From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Dec  1 00:44:28 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 21:44:28 -0800
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
Message-ID: <493379BC.6070308@fourthworld.com>

Mikey wrote:

> Tell them the stinking truth - the engine is open source with
> commercial IDE/RAD toolkit built on top of it, and even that is open
> source.

?

The Rev engine is close-source, as it's been since MetaCard 1.0.



> 5) Insulting C++ or M$ or Java is a Very Bad Idea

"M$"

:)


-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Dec  1 00:55:20 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 23:55:20 -0600
Subject: answer file with more than one image type
In-Reply-To: <89701EED-1B54-42BF-864A-036FA5D56388@mac.com>
Message-ID: <C558D868.17A56%kray@sonsothunder.com>

> One more question.
> After I import an image and resize it down to be a button icon, does
> RunRev purge all the extra image data from the original and give the
> now imbedded picture a smaller size?

If all you are doing is changing its rectangle by dragging handles, then Rev
keeps alls the extra data. In fact, if you don't lock the image (set the
lockLocation of the image to "true") and you leave the card and come back,
you'll see that it has expanded again to its normal size.

If you want it to purge the extra image information, you can resize it down,
then execute this line of code:

  set the imageData of img 1 to (the imageData of img 1)

I know it doesn't seem like it should do anything, but it does.

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From toolbook at kestner.de  Mon Dec  1 02:34:28 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 08:34:28 +0100
Subject: AW: My AntiVirus corrupts my gz file,
	was: need help for decompress URL
In-Reply-To: <665591460811301030g31c27e43u82030d5343d3d28a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A5DEE0FF38CA4FDEA94DCB13F6FD44FC@Kestner.local>

It is AntiVirus 2009 from GDATA, a german product :(
Tiemo

> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-
> bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Chipp Walters
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 30. November 2008 19:31
> An: How to use Revolution
> Betreff: Re: My AntiVirus corrupts my gz file,was: need help for
> decompress URL
> 
> Which anti-virus do you use?
> 
> On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 7:23 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB
> <toolbook at kestner.de>wrote:
> 
> >
> > After a new install of the newest (other, as before) version of the
> > antivirus the corruption happens again. On another PC with the same
> > antivirus the error doesn't occur.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From geradamas at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  1 03:24:30 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 00:24:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
Message-ID: <177327.39459.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:

"The problem with "Hypercard" and "xTalk" is for many they represent
non-professional approaches to programming."

Surely only in an ever-diminishing circle of people who worked with Hypercard?

Also, as far as I am aware the language for programming Hypercard is
"HyperTalk" rather than xTalk.

Certainly, in "PC-land" very few people have heard of either Hypercard or xTalk.

I also recall, many, many years ago, some fairly dubious, non-professional
programming being done in PASCAL, FORTRAN, and so forth (err, probably in
FORTH as well); so why Hypercard should be blackened as "non-professional" (when, it is the people who use HC, not HC itself, who might be non-professional) is a bit obscure. I, personally, grew up on LEGO blocks, and when a "LEGO-blocklike" programming option came along I leapt at it and have kept with it ever since - and, do not see it in any way as 'inferior' or 'non-professional' when compared with command-line languages. This has recently been hammered into my mind as I have had to see my 16 year old through the "joys" of PASCAL.

I program on what people who care about accuracy might like to term a "semi-professional level"; and as such the work I do here, in Bulgaria, is admired both by end-users and those who have me do programming for them. I have never been asked in what language I program in as people don't really care; what they do care about is that they end up with a fully-functional application that does what they want it to in the shortest possible time: AND, SURELY, that is the point, rather than worrying overmuch about how to explain how one works one's "Magic Spells"!

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Mon Dec  1 03:24:21 2008
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (Scott Morrow)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 00:24:21 -0800
Subject: preserve custom folder icons in OSX
Message-ID: <667B5B2C-BD6B-48E4-8B66-0EDB30833696@elementarysoftware.com>

I'm trying to add, as part of an installer app, the ability to  
reproduce any original custom folder icons in OSX (and perhaps OS9 as  
I think it uses the same mechanism).  In other words, I would like to  
be able to suck up the custom folder icon information along with  
everything else so that it can be restored when the folder is spit out  
elsewhere.

If I understand correctly, the folder icon is controlled by an  
invisible file named "Icon"&CR  (often referred to as "Icon\r") which  
contains an icon resource ("icns",-16455). Additionally, I believe the  
folder itself needs to have a flag set in order for it to accept this  
icon.

I can't seem to touch or otherwise get a peek at the resource inside  
the icon\r file without first renaming it to something without the  
carriage return.

I haven't tried to figure out the folder flag yet.  Any suggestions  
gladly accepted.

Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       http://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
------------------------------------------------------






From geradamas at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  1 06:06:10 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 03:06:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The "stinking truth".
Message-ID: <370632.42698.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Sorry, I cannot see anything 'stinky' or inadequate about saying what Runtime Revolution is. 

I know that "Dropping your drawers and mooning them is a good way to
make a name for yourself" (having done the written equivalent of that on 
this list in the past); but I don't see what that has to do with what to 
call the language inside Runtime Revolution.

As to "ass clowns" . . . certainly very few of them contribute to the
Runtime Revolution Use-List methinks.

Mikey write:

"The tone is merely a vehicle to illustrate the point plainly."

Been there, Done that; and guess where it got me? All that sort of tone
serves to do is rub people up the wrong way and turn them right off your
'plain point'. A spade may well be a 'spade', rather than a 'manually 
operated soil remover', but we don't have to call it a 'f***ing shovel'.

I still think there is a lot to be said for 'RexTalk'.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From toolbook at kestner.de  Mon Dec  1 08:17:43 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 14:17:43 +0100
Subject: How do you handle an engine update for your app?
Message-ID: <EA4FC99AADBE427392AFFC7B39004BE3@Kestner.local>

Hello,

when building an automatic update function in your app, which checks the
internet for updates, I think the common approach is to have a splash stack,
which does all the checking, downloading and replacing of the needed files.
After having replaced the update files, including possibly your main stack,
the splash stack launches the main stack and you have the newest version. So
far so good.

But what do you do, if you want to exchange your splash stack it self? What
I am thinking about is, now I am building my app with Rev 3.0. When building
the standalone the splash stack contains the rev engine 3.0. In my case
using the brush tool has a bug (reported earlier), what seems to be in the
engine itself and not in the brush image pattern (which could be linked to
own images in other stacks). The splash stack doesn't uses the brush, but
the Rev engine, supplying the brush tool is in the splash stack. So
hopefully, when releasing Rev 3.x my brush bug is fixed and I could build a
new standalone of my splash stack. But I can't replace "myself"?

What are your approaches to organise this issue?

Thanks

Tiemo

 

 

 

 



From camm29 at tesco.net  Mon Dec  1 08:52:18 2008
From: camm29 at tesco.net (camm29 at tesco.net)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 13:52:18 +0000
Subject: Rev 3 fails to build with Stack Password set ?
In-Reply-To: <20081128115907.TRHEE.107707.root@web10-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
Message-ID: <20081201135218.0H749.255357.root@web09-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Has anybody confirmed this ?
Is it a Bug ?

Regards


---- camm29 at tesco.net wrote: 
> If a Stack contains ANSWER Dialog and you set a password for the Stack in 
> Standalone settings if fails to buildin Rev 3 ?
> 
> This is no a problem in Rev 2.8
> 
> Regards
> Camm
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Dec  1 10:02:21 2008
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:02:21 -0500
Subject: How do you handle an engine update for your app?
In-Reply-To: <EA4FC99AADBE427392AFFC7B39004BE3@Kestner.local>
References: <EA4FC99AADBE427392AFFC7B39004BE3@Kestner.local>
Message-ID: <CEAD3528-21EF-41C3-B233-400E354D724F@mangomultimedia.com>

On Dec 1, 2008, at 8:17 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:

> But what do you do, if you want to exchange your splash stack it self?
> What are your approaches to organise this issue?

The current approach I use on Windows is to launch a VBScript and then  
quit the main application. The VBScript waits for the application to  
quit and then copies over the new install files (including the new  
executable) and then launches the new exe.

On OS X you can update your entire application on disk while still  
running so I just wrote a little command line program that the updater  
calls right before quitting. The command line program just relaunches  
the app after a few seconds. If I was better at shell scripts I would  
write one that watched for the application to quit and then relaunch  
but I haven't gotten around to that yet.

If you need code examples I can point you at the files to look at in  
the GLX Application Framework.

Regards,

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Learning Systems
ScreenSteps: http://www.screensteps.com
Developer Resources: http://revolution.bluemangolearning.com


From luis at anachreon.co.uk  Mon Dec  1 10:35:07 2008
From: luis at anachreon.co.uk (Luis)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 15:35:07 +0000
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <663104.1571.qm@web37503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <663104.1571.qm@web37503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <933BEBC0-4715-45B6-A355-61330DEBACE1@anachreon.co.uk>

Hiya,

Dunno, but 'RexTalk', for me, elicits the sounds a T Rex might  
make... if it could talk...

Cheers,

Luis.


On 30 Nov 2008, at 22:27, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> It's what HyperCard could have been if Apple had more crunch!
>
> Personally I like "xTalk", so why not call the Runtime Revolution  
> dialect
>
> RexTalk ?
>
> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
>
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development  
> Life Cycle.
> ____________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From lists at futilism.com  Mon Dec  1 10:40:53 2008
From: lists at futilism.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 15:40:53 +0000
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <933BEBC0-4715-45B6-A355-61330DEBACE1@anachreon.co.uk>
References: <663104.1571.qm@web37503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<933BEBC0-4715-45B6-A355-61330DEBACE1@anachreon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <EC768849-D2CB-442D-8A45-CCC3BE241C94@futilism.com>

Just recently, I told one company I'm working with that I'm using a  
scripting language called revolution. They didn't seem worried.

Perhaps the phrase "scripting language" might once have caused  
concern, but given the prevalence of perl, php, ruby and python, I  
don't think it worries many people these days.

best,

Mark

On 1 Dec 2008, at 15:35, Luis wrote:

> Hiya,
>
> Dunno, but 'RexTalk', for me, elicits the sounds a T Rex might  
> make... if it could talk...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Luis.
>
>
> On 30 Nov 2008, at 22:27, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>
>> It's what HyperCard could have been if Apple had more crunch!
>>
>> Personally I like "xTalk", so why not call the Runtime Revolution  
>> dialect
>>
>> RexTalk ?
>>
>> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>>
>> A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development  
>> Life Cycle.
>> ____________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dave.cragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Mon Dec  1 10:44:45 2008
From: dave.cragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 15:44:45 +0000
Subject: How do you handle an engine update for your app?
In-Reply-To: <EA4FC99AADBE427392AFFC7B39004BE3@Kestner.local>
References: <EA4FC99AADBE427392AFFC7B39004BE3@Kestner.local>
Message-ID: <F946E683-1488-4297-B076-731675B2B271@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 1 Dec 2008, at 13:17, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
> What are your approaches to organise this issue?

Here is the rough outline of an approach I've used before.

-- Build a standalone to act as the updater. The new "engine file" is  
contained in a custom property of this standalone.

-- Have the current application download the updater standalone.  
(place it in a temp location.)

-- Launch the updater standalone.

-- Quit the current application.

-- The updater standalone deletes the current application, installs  
the new one, and launches the new one. (Probably add a delay of a few  
seconds before deleting the current application so it has time to  
fully quit.)

-- The updater application quits.

-- In the new application, include a routine to delete files from the  
temp location, either at startup or shutdown.

Possible problems:

The user must have write permissions to the location where the  
application is to be installed. But as this also affects the original  
installation, it's probably not a problem. But you might want to only  
make the Update feature available to users with appropriate write  
permissions.

There may be restrictions/warnings/etc. after downloading an  
executable. You probably should compress the Updater Standalone and  
decompress it in the temp location from within the current  
application. (That might not be enough.)

This needs appropriate functionality in the current application. So if  
you want to update an application that is installed now, and it  
doesn't contain the appropriate functionality, you need another  
approach. ;-)

Cheers
Dave


From mikeythek at gmail.com  Mon Dec  1 11:08:04 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 11:08:04 -0500
Subject: The "stinking truth".
In-Reply-To: <370632.42698.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <370632.42698.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812010808p1aedb872n8fea4b6681a213ca@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for proving the point, Richard.  That reaction was exactly what
I was trying to illicit.  If someone acts defensive, the reaction is
negative, i.e. harsh begets distance.


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Dec  1 11:11:42 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 08:11:42 -0800
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
Message-ID: <49340CBE.1010802@fourthworld.com>

Mark Smith wrote:
> Just recently, I told one company I'm working with that I'm using a  
> scripting language called revolution. They didn't seem worried.
> 
> Perhaps the phrase "scripting language" might once have caused  
> concern, but given the prevalence of perl, php, ruby and python, I  
> don't think it worries many people these days.

True, I think the plethora of very capable VHLs has brought us to a sort 
of Golden Age for scripting.  At last we get some respect. :)

For years I've been referring folks to this article that I first came 
across via Scott Raney:

Scripting: Higher Level Programming
for the 21st Century
John K. Ousterhout
<http://www.tcl.tk/doc/scripting.html>

While focused on TCL, all the arguments he makes there for the inherent 
productivity of typeless languages applies equally well to Transcript.

More recently Geoff Canyon turned me on to this one:

In Praise of Scripting:  Real Programming Pragmatism
Ronald P. Loui
<http://www.cse.wustl.edu/~loui/praiseieee.txt>

When I get some free time (yeah, right), I plan to put these and other 
references together into a "Why Revolution?" article for my site.

I think Rev offers a unique blend of strengths that even in spite of its 
weaknesses make it a strong candidate for a broad range of 
vertical-market applications.  It doesn't take much nudging to present a 
good case for it, but hopefully such an article will simplify such 
conversations.

In the meantime, perhaps the strongest case could be made by simply 
getting the good folks at RunRev to flesh out their listing of apps made 
with Rev.  Nothing makes a more compelling argument than tangible results.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Dec  1 11:27:53 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 08:27:53 -0800
Subject: The "stinking truth".
Message-ID: <49341089.6020905@fourthworld.com>

Mikey wrote:

> Thanks for proving the point, Richard.  That reaction was exactly what
> I was trying to illicit.  If someone acts defensive, the reaction is
> negative, i.e. harsh begets distance.

I apologize for any feather-ruffling; not my intention.  I think we just 
have a simple misunderstanding here.

I wrote:

> Mikey wrote:
> 
>> Tell them the stinking truth - the engine is open source with
>> commercial IDE/RAD toolkit built on top of it, and even that is open
>> source.
> 
> ?
> 
> The Rev engine is close-source, as it's been since MetaCard 1.0.
> 
> 
> 
>> 5) Insulting C++ or M$ or Java is a Very Bad Idea
> 
> "M$"
> 
> :)
> 

On the first item, I was merely expressing that I didn't understand your 
point about the engine being "open source".  As far as I know that's not 
"the stinking truth" but rather the opposite, so I must admit I don't 
understand what you meant there.

On the second, I merely quoted your use of "M$", a common shorthand 
pejorative for "Microsoft".  If we are to avoid dissing other 
tools/vendors, it would seem helpful to avoid such pejoratives (though I 
can appreciate how difficult they may be to resist in the case a company 
with so many anti-trust convictions against them).


For the record, when discussing alternatives for development tools with 
potential clients of course I'm somewhat less candid about my personal 
opinions than I feel comfortable being here in this lion's den of Rev 
converts.

But booked with long-term contracts, it's not often I have such 
conversations anyway, and my current clients share pretty much the same 
opinions.

When discussing tools in articles at my sites or in print, I generally 
support your view that it's more productive to accentuate the positive.

I think we're in agreement here.  Sorry if it appeared otherwise.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From nealk3nc at gmail.com  Mon Dec  1 11:39:58 2008
From: nealk3nc at gmail.com (Neal Campbell)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 11:39:58 -0500
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <49340CBE.1010802@fourthworld.com>
References: <49340CBE.1010802@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <325413300812010839k313a9f24u4aab6a5ea6048b3f@mail.gmail.com>

Over the past several months I have been studying a lot, looking for
the perfect language that I enjoyed for working on desktop
applications as well as RIA/Web applications. The languages I have
purchased/used/enjoyed include:
Delphi 2009
C# 3.0
Realbasic 2008
Revolution
Ruby
Python
Objective C
Adobe Flex/Actionscript 3
Lua
Ni

If you really look at these, they are all slowly drifting towards
commonality. They all started at different points but with each
iteration of features, they are beginning to look alike. Compare C#
and Actionscript for instance, you cannot hardly tell which is which
(and throw java in there also).

My point is that languages are irrelevant as far as users are
concerned. They were more relevant 10 years ago as the limitations
were pretty visible. There is an argument that vendor-native languages
have an advantage (C#/VB .net on Windows or Objective C for OS X).
These languages enjoy the greatest amount of native look-feel early in
the game but the others catch up pretty quickly.

The language selection is important for us though, both in terms of
speed of development, unit testing capability and ease of deployment.

The other thing is that with RESTful/SOAP/RPC-XML/AMFPHP/etc,
standardized frameworks are actually becoming more strategic in
architecture decision making, not language. Much of the Business
Intelligence can now reside there, segregating the "View" to whatever
language you find best to draw on the screen.

I somehow sense a feeling of "second-class" amongst some when using
Rev. Rev is to the original Hypercard what PC Basic was to VB .net. If
anyone has taken a spin with VB .net 2008, its as complex/difficult as
C#. The old joke that the difference between C++ and VB was 3 months
has long gone. After 2 months of trying it, I decided C# was an easier
language!

Code on Revvers!

Neal Campbell
Abroham Neal Software
Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux
(540) 242 0911
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Try Spot for OS X, the intelligent DXCluster Client at
www.abrohamnealsoftware.com -  $15.99
-------------------------------------------------
For a great dog book, visit www.abrohamneal.com
-------------------------------------------------
See the FlexRadio Systems Flex-5000a in
action at www.flex-videos.com




On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Richard Gaskin
<ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> Mark Smith wrote:
>>
>> Just recently, I told one company I'm working with that I'm using a
>>  scripting language called revolution. They didn't seem worried.
>>
>> Perhaps the phrase "scripting language" might once have caused  concern,
>> but given the prevalence of perl, php, ruby and python, I  don't think it
>> worries many people these days.
>
> True, I think the plethora of very capable VHLs has brought us to a sort of
> Golden Age for scripting.  At last we get some respect. :)
>
> For years I've been referring folks to this article that I first came across
> via Scott Raney:
>
> Scripting: Higher Level Programming
> for the 21st Century
> John K. Ousterhout
> <http://www.tcl.tk/doc/scripting.html>
>
> While focused on TCL, all the arguments he makes there for the inherent
> productivity of typeless languages applies equally well to Transcript.
>
> More recently Geoff Canyon turned me on to this one:
>
> In Praise of Scripting:  Real Programming Pragmatism
> Ronald P. Loui
> <http://www.cse.wustl.edu/~loui/praiseieee.txt>
>
> When I get some free time (yeah, right), I plan to put these and other
> references together into a "Why Revolution?" article for my site.
>
> I think Rev offers a unique blend of strengths that even in spite of its
> weaknesses make it a strong candidate for a broad range of vertical-market
> applications.  It doesn't take much nudging to present a good case for it,
> but hopefully such an article will simplify such conversations.
>
> In the meantime, perhaps the strongest case could be made by simply getting
> the good folks at RunRev to flesh out their listing of apps made with Rev.
>  Nothing makes a more compelling argument than tangible results.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Managing Editor, revJournal
>  _______________________________________________________
>  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From toolbook at kestner.de  Mon Dec  1 11:51:06 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:51:06 +0100
Subject: AW: How do you handle an engine update for your app?
In-Reply-To: <CEAD3528-21EF-41C3-B233-400E354D724F@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <C8887173C86147F197C0328F011EDE66@Kestner.local>

Hi Trevor,
I'll think about it and perhaps come back
Thank you
Tiemo
> 
> If you need code examples I can point you at the files to look at in
> the GLX Application Framework.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> --
> Trevor DeVore
> Blue Mango Learning Systems
> ScreenSteps: http://www.screensteps.com
> Developer Resources: http://revolution.bluemangolearning.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mstuart at adaptcrm.com  Mon Dec  1 11:52:42 2008
From: mstuart at adaptcrm.com (Mark Stuart)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 08:52:42 -0800
Subject: Check and close a program
Message-ID: <F717B2796E5D2F499032573DBC497FC1018CA6CD@asa-mail.adaptcrm.com>

Hi Tareq,

Read the Windows Registry, using the following Key:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows
NT\CurrentVersion\CurrentVersion

Valid values = (5, 5.1, 6)

Where: 5 = Win2000, 5.1 = WinXP, 6 = Vista

 

If it = 5.1 OR 6 (Vista), then use: "taskkill /IM ExecutableName.exe"

This will kill/stop ALL sessions of the same exe name.

 

For more info:

Open a DOS box and type in: taskkill /?

You will see all the / options.

 

Sorry, I don't the executable name for Win2000, which is different.



HTH,

Mark Stuart


Tareq wrote:

Hi everybody,
I'm to tryin' to find a way to stop a program or an
executable from the process tab of windows task 
manager. Is there any simple way to do that by
scripting a btn? The executable may be rev app or
others. Thanks in advance... 

 

      



From toolbook at kestner.de  Mon Dec  1 12:01:57 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 18:01:57 +0100
Subject: AW: How do you handle an engine update for your app?
In-Reply-To: <F946E683-1488-4297-B076-731675B2B271@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ECFECAD5A2F441F594A78A3C9DC675F5@Kestner.local>

Hello Dave,
your approach brought me another idea.
What about if I would always have two "launching" standalones one behind the
other. First one only to check and do the updates, calling the second
standalone and quitting. The second standalone is nothing else, as a carrier
of the standalone engine, splash screen and what else wanted and calls the
main stack.
If this works I could always update the newest engine with the second
standalone and the only thing what I can't do with this approach is to
update the first standalone. Assuming that I don't want to change anything
in the update procedure, this would be the easiest way.
Am I sure that this way, my main stack will be handled by the engine of the
second standalone, or would it still be handled by the engine of the first
standalone?
Thank you
Tiemo

> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-
> bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Dave Cragg
> Gesendet: Montag, 1. Dezember 2008 16:45
> An: How to use Revolution
> Betreff: Re: How do you handle an engine update for your app?
> 
> 
> On 1 Dec 2008, at 13:17, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
> > What are your approaches to organise this issue?
> 
> Here is the rough outline of an approach I've used before.
> 
> -- Build a standalone to act as the updater. The new "engine file" is
> contained in a custom property of this standalone.
> 
> -- Have the current application download the updater standalone.
> (place it in a temp location.)
> 
> -- Launch the updater standalone.
> 
> -- Quit the current application.
> 
> -- The updater standalone deletes the current application, installs
> the new one, and launches the new one. (Probably add a delay of a few
> seconds before deleting the current application so it has time to
> fully quit.)
> 
> -- The updater application quits.
> 
> -- In the new application, include a routine to delete files from the
> temp location, either at startup or shutdown.
> 
> Possible problems:
> 
> The user must have write permissions to the location where the
> application is to be installed. But as this also affects the original
> installation, it's probably not a problem. But you might want to only
> make the Update feature available to users with appropriate write
> permissions.
> 
> There may be restrictions/warnings/etc. after downloading an
> executable. You probably should compress the Updater Standalone and
> decompress it in the temp location from within the current
> application. (That might not be enough.)
> 
> This needs appropriate functionality in the current application. So if
> you want to update an application that is installed now, and it
> doesn't contain the appropriate functionality, you need another
> approach. ;-)
> 
> Cheers
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From viktoras at ekoinf.net  Mon Dec  1 12:13:10 2008
From: viktoras at ekoinf.net (viktoras didziulis)
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 19:13:10 +0200
Subject: one launcher - many links
In-Reply-To: <ECFECAD5A2F441F594A78A3C9DC675F5@Kestner.local>
References: <ECFECAD5A2F441F594A78A3C9DC675F5@Kestner.local>
Message-ID: <49341B26.3080800@ekoinf.net>

hello! just wanted to ask what strategies can be used to solve the 
following issue 'correctly':
there is one launcher (compiled stack) and several modules (ordinary 
stacks). I would need to add several shortcuts to the Windows start 
menu/MacOSX applications folder pointing to same loader stack, but 
instructing it to load different module stack. How can this be done ?

best regards and thanks for any hints !
Viktoras


From mikeythek at gmail.com  Mon Dec  1 12:24:11 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:24:11 -0500
Subject: The "stinking truth".
In-Reply-To: <49341089.6020905@fourthworld.com>
References: <49341089.6020905@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812010924g68d8e18cr40f7e896e4f4301f@mail.gmail.com>

> I apologize for any feather-ruffling; not my intention.  I think we just
> have a simple misunderstanding here.

Absolutely not.  I tried to write my original email several times
before I settled on TRYING to ruffle feathers to try to prove a point,
so if I didn't ruffle any then I suck.

Apparently I don't understand the state of things, because it was my
understanding that the MC engine was generally sufficient for what
we're doing.  At least the second part, about the IDE, is correct.
Obviously by "open source" I don't mean you can license it or use it
or whatever, but you can hack it, thus the source for the IDE is open,
i.e. interpreted, and the engine still operates if you change it.  To
repeat, I thought that the crux of the engine was open source (in this
case, OS means that you can get the source and compile it for
yourself).

You're absolutely correct that referring to M$ instead of MS is doing
exactly what I was preaching against, and it is behavior that I do not
tolerate from vendors.  In technical discussions, though, it is, IMHO
easier to identify than MS, because there is no known (to me anyway)
alternative meaning to the abbreviation, so I have taken to using it
when referring to that firm.


From sadhu at castandcrew.com  Mon Dec  1 12:54:02 2008
From: sadhu at castandcrew.com (Sadhunathan Nadesan)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 09:54:02 -0800
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
Message-ID: <200812011754.mB1Hs20N010241@sddev.castandcrew.com>


> Personally I like "xTalk", (snip)
>
> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.


I vote for xTalk or X-talk.

Part of the reason is that I use it mainly just as a stand alone scripting
language without the IDE, for the kinds of tasks I might use Bash shell
script for - (or Perl if I felt more affinity for it) when it happens
to be better suited _for me_, for the solution needed.  Examples: to
parse text, for CGI programs, data conversions, wrapper around SQL,
and so forth.

-- Sadhu


From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Mon Dec  1 13:06:52 2008
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ludovic_Th=E9bault?=)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 19:06:52 +0100
Subject: Slider. i miss something ?
Message-ID: <85A83EDB-4299-44FB-AEE6-9C42148E6F03@laposte.net>

Hello,

It's not possible to force a slider to scroll only at pageinc ?  
(scroll only by multiple of 5 for example)

Thx.

PS : Rev 2.9.1


From viktoras at ekoinf.net  Mon Dec  1 13:08:23 2008
From: viktoras at ekoinf.net (viktoras didziulis)
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:08:23 +0200
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <200812011754.mB1Hs20N010241@sddev.castandcrew.com>
References: <200812011754.mB1Hs20N010241@sddev.castandcrew.com>
Message-ID: <49342817.6000101@ekoinf.net>

what about recursive acronym like XIR meaning Xtalk Is Revolution (which 
is correct in many senses). Language names like Rex, R are already 
reserved and I do not know any language called XIR which is both Xtalk 
and Revolution and everyone is happy :-)))

Viktoras

Sadhunathan Nadesan wrote:
>> Personally I like "xTalk", (snip)
>>
>> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
>>     
>
>
> I vote for xTalk or X-talk.
>
> Part of the reason is that I use it mainly just as a stand alone scripting
> language without the IDE, for the kinds of tasks I might use Bash shell
> script for - (or Perl if I felt more affinity for it) when it happens
> to be better suited _for me_, for the solution needed.  Examples: to
> parse text, for CGI programs, data conversions, wrapper around SQL,
> and so forth.
>
> -- Sadhu
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>   



From viktoras at ekoinf.net  Mon Dec  1 13:10:05 2008
From: viktoras at ekoinf.net (viktoras didziulis)
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:10:05 +0200
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <49342817.6000101@ekoinf.net>
References: <200812011754.mB1Hs20N010241@sddev.castandcrew.com>
	<49342817.6000101@ekoinf.net>
Message-ID: <4934287D.6060002@ekoinf.net>

sorry it is not recursive, but still acronym anyway...

viktoras didziulis wrote:
> what about recursive acronym like XIR



From gizmotron at earthlink.net  Mon Dec  1 13:22:46 2008
From: gizmotron at earthlink.net (Mark Brownell)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:22:46 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
Message-ID: <6715603.1228155766486.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I agree that it's bad practice to draw attention to what you use in a defensive way or in criticizing other well known methods. I also see the logic in not using name overloading when describing RR, Rev, and Revolution as being a trinity of modern symbolism. I always ask, "what would you like it written in?"

How about "Runtime Revolution" the company, "RevEngine" the IDE, and "Rv+" the language?

You can say what ever you want to even if they don't in Scotland. You could just say "that's what we say in the community."






From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Dec  1 13:45:51 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 10:45:51 -0800
Subject: The "stinking truth".
References: 49341089.6020905@fourthworld.com
Message-ID: <493430DF.4090500@fourthworld.com>

Mikey wrote:

>> I apologize for any feather-ruffling; not my intention.  I think we just
>> have a simple misunderstanding here.
> 
> Absolutely not.  I tried to write my original email several times
> before I settled on TRYING to ruffle feathers to try to prove a point,
> so if I didn't ruffle any then I suck.

Uh, ok.  I still don't understand the point, but I'm pre-coffee and 
happy to let it be.

> Apparently I don't understand the state of things, because it was my
> understanding that the MC engine was generally sufficient for what
> we're doing.  At least the second part, about the IDE, is correct.

The misunderstanding here is simply that the MC engine *is* the Rev 
engine.

It began life in 1992 under the name "MetaCard", back when it was owned 
and maintained by Scott Raney's MetaCard Corp.

While it was still owned by MetaCard Corp., Kevin Miller's company at 
the time, Crossworlds Computing, built a nifty alternative IDE for it, 
and arranged a licensing agreement with MC Corp to distribute the engine 
with their IDE for a much lower licensing fee to their customers in 
consideration for Crossworlds providing support for it.

Later, Kevin et al formed a new company under the name Runtime 
Revolution Ltd., and in 2003 acquired the rights to the MC engine and 
its source, rebranding it as "Revolution":
<http://www.macworld.com/article/25297/2003/07/revolution.html>

Since RunRev Ltd. had their own IDE they had no use for MC's more 
"primitive" one, so MC Corp retained the rights to that IDE and worked 
with their loyal customers to arrange for it to be maintained under an 
open source license (X11, aka "MIT License").  Under those terms, MC 
Corp. remains the copyright holder of all portions of the original code 
that are still in the MC IDE today (most of it, although a couple dozen 
of us have been contributing bits here and there, with Klaus Major doing 
most of the heavy lifting in recent years - thanks Klaus!), but also 
allowing the project to be forked and any portion of it to be used for 
any non-commercial or even commercial work if desired.  In fact, we 
chose the X11 license (as opposed to LGPL and some others with 
derivative use restrictions) specifically in anticipation of the 
possibility that we might come up with something there that could be 
useful to RunRev, so they would be fully protected if they chose to take 
advantage of anything in it; a modest consideration in exchange for 
their good work in maintaining and enhancing the engine running.

In 2006 RunRev strengthened their engine licensing security in a way 
which makes it easier for third parties to create their own IDEs.  Today 
it's relatively simple for anyone to create the custom environment of 
their dreams, while the engine itself requires only that a Rev 
installation has been successfully licensed on that machine.  Win-win 
for all:  RunRev ensures their revenue for the engine license, while we 
get total freedom in our workflows (a brilliant move, Mr. Waddingham - 
thanks!).

So while the MC IDE is open source, and anyone can make any other stacks 
they like within the Rev license terms, to run any of these still 
requires the proprietary closed-source Rev engine.


> Obviously by "open source" I don't mean you can license it or use it
> or whatever, but you can hack it, thus the source for the IDE is open,
> i.e. interpreted, and the engine still operates if you change it.  To
> repeat, I thought that the crux of the engine was open source (in this
> case, OS means that you can get the source and compile it for
> yourself).

Only the MC IDE, and any stacks you might make on your own, enjoy those 
freedoms.  For practical business reasons, the engine that drives it 
relies on source code not made publicly available.


> You're absolutely correct that referring to M$ instead of MS is doing
> exactly what I was preaching against, and it is behavior that I do not
> tolerate from vendors.  In technical discussions, though, it is, IMHO
> easier to identify than MS, because there is no known (to me anyway)
> alternative meaning to the abbreviation, so I have taken to using it
> when referring to that firm.

I suppose to be fairest we might just use "Microsoft". :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From revdev at pdslabs.net  Mon Dec  1 14:08:29 2008
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 11:08:29 -0800
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <6715603.1228155766486.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <6715603.1228155766486.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4934362D.7070104@pdslabs.net>

Mark Brownell wrote:
> I agree that it's bad practice to draw attention to what you use in a defensive way or in criticizing other well known methods. I also see the logic in not using name overloading when describing RR, Rev, and Revolution as being a trinity of modern symbolism. I always ask, "what would you like it written in?"
>
> How about "Runtime Revolution" the company, "RevEngine" the IDE, and "Rv+" the language?
>
> You can say what ever you want to even if they don't in Scotland. You could just say "that's what we say in the community."
>   

"The community"... the fact that there IS a community is key. I think 
one of the most pressing concerns among business folks who pay the bill 
for us to develop their apps in Rev is one of continuity. As a client of 
mine said last week:
> Suppose you decided to chuck it all and join a country band in 
> Nashville, never to return to your former life and donating all 
> material possessions to your daughter.  What would I do?  We are 
> standing naked here (an ugly thought at best).

Since there is a Rev developer community, project continuity is 
achievable even if some developers disappear. I was able to talk my 
client down from the ledge (metaphorically) on that basis.
-- 
Phil Davis

PDS Labs
Professional Software Development
http://pdslabs.net



From randall at randallreetz.com  Mon Dec  1 14:27:24 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Reetz)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 11:27:24 -0800
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
Message-ID: <20081201193008.BSBS22183.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>

You cant use "xTalk" without ruining the credibility of your company.  xTalk is the generic universal lable for the whole smalltalk spawned event and object handler driven scripting lnguage family.  The only reasonable and obvious choice is "revTalk".    

-----Original Message-----
From: "Sadhunathan Nadesan" <sadhu at castandcrew.com>
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Sent: 12/1/2008 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: When they ask, what is this written in?


> Personally I like "xTalk", (snip)
>
> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.


I vote for xTalk or X-talk.

Part of the reason is that I use it mainly just as a stand alone scripting
language without the IDE, for the kinds of tasks I might use Bash shell
script for - (or Perl if I felt more affinity for it) when it happens
to be better suited _for me_, for the solution needed.  Examples: to
parse text, for CGI programs, data conversions, wrapper around SQL,
and so forth.

-- Sadhu
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Mon Dec  1 14:40:20 2008
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides, MD)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 13:40:20 -0600
Subject: The "stinking truth".
In-Reply-To: <493430DF.4090500@fourthworld.com>
References: 49341089.6020905@fourthworld.com <493430DF.4090500@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <D759AA60-70DC-4DF1-A546-615966EB77CE@earthlink.net>

Richard

Thanks for the illuminating history of RunRev.

M
On Dec 1, 2008, at 12:45 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>
> The misunderstanding here is simply that the MC engine *is* the Rev  
> engine.
>
> It began life in 1992 under the name "MetaCard", back when it was  
> owned and maintained by Scott Raney's MetaCard Corp.
>
> While it was still owned by MetaCard Corp., Kevin Miller's company  
> at the time, Crossworlds Computing, built a nifty alternative IDE  
> for it, and arranged a licensing agreement with MC Corp to  
> distribute the engine with their IDE for a much lower licensing fee  
> to their customers in consideration for Crossworlds providing  
> support for it.
>
> Later, Kevin et al formed a new company under the name Runtime  
> Revolution Ltd., and in 2003 acquired the rights to the MC engine  
> and its source, rebranding it as "Revolution":
> <http://www.macworld.com/article/25297/2003/07/revolution.html>
>
> Since RunRev Ltd. had their own IDE they had no use for MC's more  
> "primitive" one, so MC Corp retained the rights to that IDE and  
> worked with their loyal customers to arrange for it to be maintained  
> under an open source license (X11, aka "MIT License").  Under those  
> terms, MC Corp. remains the copyright holder of all portions of the  
> original code that are still in the MC IDE today (most of it,  
> although a couple dozen of us have been contributing bits here and  
> there, with Klaus Major doing most of the heavy lifting in recent  
> years - thanks Klaus!), but also allowing the project to be forked  
> and any portion of it to be used for any non-commercial or even  
> commercial work if desired.  In fact, we chose the X11 license (as  
> opposed to LGPL and some others with derivative use restrictions)  
> specifically in anticipation of the possibility that we might come  
> up with something there that could be useful to RunRev, so they  
> would be fully protected if they chose to take advantage of anything  
> in it; a modest consideration in exchange for their good work in  
> maintaining and enhancing the engine running.
>
> In 2006 RunRev strengthened their engine licensing security in a way  
> which makes it easier for third parties to create their own IDEs.   
> Today it's relatively simple for anyone to create the custom  
> environment of their dreams, while the engine itself requires only  
> that a Rev installation has been successfully licensed on that  
> machine.  Win-win for all:  RunRev ensures their revenue for the  
> engine license, while we get total freedom in our workflows (a  
> brilliant move, Mr. Waddingham - thanks!).
>
> So while the MC IDE is open source, and anyone can make any other  
> stacks they like within the Rev license terms, to run any of these  
> still requires the proprietary closed-source Rev engine.
> .
>



From geradamas at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  1 14:42:06 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 11:42:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Text-y thing-y.
Message-ID: <831492.25437.qm@web37508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Just uploaded "Text Bash" to revOnline 

( find it under 'Richmond' - surprise, surprise )

simplistic nonsense with text fields,
might be useful, you never know.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From mikeythek at gmail.com  Mon Dec  1 14:45:14 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 14:45:14 -0500
Subject: The "stinking truth".
In-Reply-To: <493430DF.4090500@fourthworld.com>
References: <493430DF.4090500@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812011145r4c79f5d5m17900d242784ad00@mail.gmail.com>

> I suppose to be fairest we might just use "Microsoft". :)
Too much typing.  Which is why C++ is so popular


From h at FlexibleLearning.com  Mon Dec  1 15:14:46 2008
From: h at FlexibleLearning.com (Hugh Senior)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 20:14:46 -0000
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <20081201180005.3B98A48A33B@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONAEGDCBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>

Richmond wrote
> Personally I like "xTalk", (snip)

Sadhu wrote
> I vote for xTalk or X-talk.

Unfortunately xTalk, XTalk, X-Talk (or however you want to spell it) is
already part of the programming language landscape to cover any scripting
language from HyperCard onwards. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XTalk

My current preference (of no intrinsic value at all, but of no less value
than anyone else's) is 'RevCode' for the language and 'Revolution' for the
IDE. Revolution is thus distinct from MetaCard for those of us who prefer
that environment, and RevCode seems to have an appropriate ring to it for
those with 'traditionalist expectations'. I wish I could claim I thought of
the term but someone else on this list did, so well done to him/her!

/H



From geradamas at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  1 15:50:00 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:50:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
Message-ID: <572429.73584.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hey-Ho:

What I wrote was:

"Personally I like "xTalk", so why not call the Runtime Revolution dialect
RexTalk ?"

Nothing like selective quoting (or quoting myself, come to that)!

The reason I would favour 'RexTalk' or 'RevTalk' is that, while showing
that the programming language is linked to Runtime Revolution it, also,
shows its history (its etymology, if you will).

I am well aware that 'xTalk' is a generic term covering HyperTalk and 
the family of derived dialects such as SuperTalk, MetaTalk and the
strangely nameless dialect we are all scratching our heads about in this 
Use-List discussion. However as 'xTalk' includes Runtime Revolution's
programming language amongst its dialects why not have a name for it
that indicates that relationship?

I am aware that there is a lot of slightly misplaced snobbery about
using 'Code' rather than 'Talk', as 'Talk' is somehow perceived as
babyish, while 'Code' is a hairy-chested word used by 'real' programmers.

However, I, at the tender age of 46, am past the type of adolescent 
posturing that worries about the comparatively empty semantics behind
'Code' and 'Talk' - come to think of it, I noticed that some of my chest 
hairs have turned white just the other day :)

'RevTalk' or 'RexTalk' would suit me fine; but I feel that 'endless
fruitless discussion' might not.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From simplsol at aol.com  Mon Dec  1 16:11:40 2008
From: simplsol at aol.com (Paul Looney)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 13:11:40 -0800
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <572429.73584.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <572429.73584.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <F58753A8-CEEB-486A-9E9C-CB02D7CB126E@aol.com>


On Dec 1, 2008, at 12:50 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> 'Talk' is somehow perceived as
> babyish, while 'Code' is a hairy-chested word used by 'real'  
> programmers.

I can think of no better reason for using "Code".
The product must be sold. Sales are based on perception. "Code" is  
perceived as real programming.

RunRev, Ltd. - for the company
Rev - for the IDE
RevCode - for the language

Paul Looney

From mdswindell at cruzio.com  Mon Dec  1 16:12:13 2008
From: mdswindell at cruzio.com (Mark Swindell)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 13:12:13 -0800
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <572429.73584.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <572429.73584.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <90132CFB-F5A8-4EE3-A2F0-0422FE6F9A0E@cruzio.com>

Transcript is a good name for the language.   Maybe Transit would be  
good for the IDE.  It certainly gets you from one place to another.


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  1 16:18:24 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 13:18:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
Message-ID: <501177.43106.qm@web37501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Mark Swindell wrote:

"Transcript is a good name for the language."

No it isn't because it has no obvious link with Runtime Revolution.

"Maybe Transit would be good for the IDE.  It certainly gets you from one
 place to another."

2 rather nebulous names could give an extremely nebulous idea!

Now 'Runtime Revolution' is an extremely punchy name,
so the programming language need something similarly punchy
as a name:

Revolt ?

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Mon Dec  1 16:33:51 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 22:33:51 +0100
Subject: Slider. i miss something ?
In-Reply-To: <85A83EDB-4299-44FB-AEE6-9C42148E6F03@laposte.net>
References: <85A83EDB-4299-44FB-AEE6-9C42148E6F03@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <AC166E15-AAF0-47D0-A190-8A9F3B19FA1C@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi Ludovic,

This is impossible, but you can make a script that sets the thumbPos  
to the nearest rounded value in the scrollbarDrag handler.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

Color Converter has been updated! Get it at
http://colorconverter.economy-x-talk.com !

On 1 dec 2008, at 19:06, Ludovic Th?bault wrote:

> Hello,
>
> It's not possible to force a slider to scroll only at pageinc ?  
> (scroll only by multiple of 5 for example)
>
> Thx.
>
> PS : Rev 2.9.1




From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Dec  1 16:41:11 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 22:41:11 +0100
Subject: Slider. i miss something ?
In-Reply-To: <85A83EDB-4299-44FB-AEE6-9C42148E6F03@laposte.net>
References: <85A83EDB-4299-44FB-AEE6-9C42148E6F03@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <BDF718DB-7EFE-40AA-8320-8B850B4B0DBB@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonsoir Ludovic,

I wrote a tiny tutorial after a discussion with Richard Gaskin and  
some others that could help you:
It is named 'How to Manage "Snap to" Scrollbars'
How to manage a slider snap-to behavior to make sure that the  
indicator lines up with the ticks on Mac OS X.

You will access this tutorial through "Tutorials Picker" a free  
plugin that interfaces with the So Smart Software website in order to  
display all available tutorials stacks directly from the web.
You will find it by going to http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Revolution/Plugins or Tutorials section.

Le 1 d?c. 08 ? 19:06, Ludovic Th?bault a ?crit :

> Hello,
>
> It's not possible to force a slider to scroll only at pageinc ?  
> (scroll only by multiple of 5 for example)
>
> Thx.

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From rjb at robelko.com  Mon Dec  1 16:35:56 2008
From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 22:35:56 +0100
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <501177.43106.qm@web37501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <501177.43106.qm@web37501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p0624080fc55a08495809@[192.168.1.102]>

On 01/12/08 at 13:18 -0800 Richmond Mathewson apparently wrote:
>Mark Swindell wrote:
>
>"Transcript is a good name for the language."
>
>No it isn't because it has no obvious link with Runtime Revolution.
>

Why must there be a connection?

Despite all the marketing justification, I firmly believe that using 
the same name for everything is confusing on the long term. 
Transcript was a reasonable and, importantly, a long established 
name. Revolution has always been and will always be bad for googling.

Robert


From shoreagent at gmail.com  Mon Dec  1 17:19:46 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 18:19:46 -0400
Subject: difference between function and command and sending parameters
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c51eb1af5ab9@192.168.1.70>
References: <459b22a90810170918t366b5247k3a0202063cd81a0a@mail.gmail.com>
	<C51E0C6A.52779%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
	<459b22a90810171003q6e7d9e87r6fa8a97c66e87c8d@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240800c51eb1af5ab9@192.168.1.70>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812011419q6bb97adbw2585a072016eb810@mail.gmail.com>

I noticed that you can't return a mix of an array and a variable. This
doesn't work (it only works if the params are both simple variables or if
you only have one parm - the array) :

*on* mouseUp

   *put* the first item of MyTest() into myArray

   *put* the keys of myArray

*end* mouseUp


*function* MyTest

   *put* "app" into pfirst[1]

   *put* "win" into pfirst[2]

   *put* "lin" into pfirst[3]

   *put* 2 into psecond

   *return* pfirst, psecond

*end* MyTest


I needed to do something like the above as the second parameter held a
different data item so now I'm trying to figure out another way to do it.


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  1 17:22:20 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 14:22:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
Message-ID: <300070.74148.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear Robert Brenstein, there was no "apparently" about things, I wrote
what I wrote.

However, just to throw another spanner in the works:-

The very few times people ask me how I make my programs I state that I use:

"Runtime Revolution, a complete programming package."

No 'language', 'IDE', 'GUI', and so on, os mentioned; probably because
most people seem perfectly satisfied with that answer. The few who are not
satisfied get treated to 30 minutes of my demonstrating RR, and 30 minutes 
while I go away and let them play with RR. The end result is either
"Wow!" or "I don't understand how computers work anyway."

As I have spent 90% of my adult life outwith my country of origin
the word 'Transcript' will always be linked in my mind with standing in queues at embassies and various other state institutions with academic
transcript with stamps, seals, apostils and much, much more. 

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Dec  1 17:46:05 2008
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:46:05 +0000
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <572429.73584.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <572429.73584.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4934692D.4070902@tweedly.net>

Richmond Mathewson wrote:
> Hey-Ho:
>
> What I wrote was:
>
> "Personally I like "xTalk", so why not call the Runtime Revolution dialect
> RexTalk ?"
>   
Because it's confusingly close to Rexx (an old favourite scripting 
language from another universe ...)

-- Alex.


From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Dec  1 18:05:10 2008
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:05:10 -0600
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <177327.39459.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <177327.39459.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <665591460812011505q31621d29xd92d4b569b1b0da0@mail.gmail.com>

I'm sure that's the case in Bulgaria, but here in the US, most every
tech person I come in contact with over the age of 35 has heard of and
remembers Hypercard. It's not necessary they actually ever worked with
HC, only that it came from Apple and was considered a 'toy' by many.
Neither good when trying to 'sell' a project.

I'm like Richard. I rarely if ever have to defend RR as I've got some
long standing Rev projects in the works. I was only responding to the
originator of this thread regarding the subject:
"When they ask, what is this written in?"

Sorry to engage you-- Not necessary to respond.

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:24 AM, Richmond Mathewson <geradamas at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Surely only in an ever-diminishing circle of people who worked with Hypercard?
> Certainly, in "PC-land" very few people have heard of either Hypercard or xTalk.


From rjb at robelko.com  Mon Dec  1 18:03:42 2008
From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 00:03:42 +0100
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <300070.74148.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <300070.74148.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06240813c55a1d1337a2@[192.168.1.102]>

On 01/12/08 at 14:22 -0800 Richmond Mathewson apparently wrote:
>Dear Robert Brenstein, there was no "apparently" about things, I wrote
>what I wrote.
>
>However, just to throw another spanner in the works:-
>
>The very few times people ask me how I make my programs I state that I use:
>
>"Runtime Revolution, a complete programming package."
>
>No 'language', 'IDE', 'GUI', and so on, os mentioned; probably because
>most people seem perfectly satisfied with that answer. The few who are not
>satisfied get treated to 30 minutes of my demonstrating RR, and 30 minutes
>while I go away and let them play with RR. The end result is either
>"Wow!" or "I don't understand how computers work anyway."

Having a separate name for the language does not change any of the above.

>As I have spent 90% of my adult life outwith my country of origin
>the word 'Transcript' will always be linked in my mind with standing 
>in queues at embassies and various other state institutions with 
>academic
>transcript with stamps, seals, apostils and much, much more.
>
>sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

Considering the audience of the language, I doubt that many people 
have such a connotation.

r


From hershf at rgllc.us  Mon Dec  1 21:16:36 2008
From: hershf at rgllc.us (hershel fisch)
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:16:36 -0800
Subject: Sqlite remotely
Message-ID: <C559DA84.147%hershf@rgllc.us>

Hi, how would be the appropriate way if there is, to work with SQLite
remotely?
Hershel Fisch



From randall at randallreetz.com  Mon Dec  1 18:14:27 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Reetz)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 15:14:27 -0800
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
Message-ID: <20081201231711.PJHL959.atlmtaow01.cingularme.com@Inbox>

I'm so sick of this thread... My new nomination is "ExTalk".  What is wrong with RevTalk?  It's the most natural name.  But, if we really want to be cool, how bout a play on the rotational meaning of the word revolution... "Spin".

-----Original Message-----
From: "Hugh Senior" <h at FlexibleLearning.com>
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Sent: 12/1/2008 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

Richmond wrote
> Personally I like "xTalk", (snip)

Sadhu wrote
> I vote for xTalk or X-talk.

Unfortunately xTalk, XTalk, X-Talk (or however you want to spell it) is
already part of the programming language landscape to cover any scripting
language from HyperCard onwards. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XTalk

My current preference (of no intrinsic value at all, but of no less value
than anyone else's) is 'RevCode' for the language and 'Revolution' for the
IDE. Revolution is thus distinct from MetaCard for those of us who prefer
that environment, and RevCode seems to have an appropriate ring to it for
those with 'traditionalist expectations'. I wish I could claim I thought of
the term but someone else on this list did, so well done to him/her!

/H

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From lists at futilism.com  Mon Dec  1 18:18:28 2008
From: lists at futilism.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 23:18:28 +0000
Subject: difference between function and command and sending parameters
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812011419q6bb97adbw2585a072016eb810@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90810170918t366b5247k3a0202063cd81a0a@mail.gmail.com>
	<C51E0C6A.52779%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
	<459b22a90810171003q6e7d9e87r6fa8a97c66e87c8d@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240800c51eb1af5ab9@192.168.1.70>
	<459b22a90812011419q6bb97adbw2585a072016eb810@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5F0467FE-6D8E-498F-B2A9-50F9E378E513@futilism.com>

William, if your example is as simple as it seems, I'd probaly not  
bother with an array, and use chunks instead,
However, for bigger data I'd do something like this, in Rev 3.0

on mouseUp
   put myTest() into tBigArray
   put tBigArray[1] into myArray
   put tBigArray[2] into mySimpleVariable
   put the keys of myArray
end mouseUp	


function  myTest
   put "app" into tArray[1][1]
   put "win" into tArray[1][2]
   pit "lin" into tArray[1][3]
   put 2 into tArray[2]
   return tArray
end myTest

If you're still pre-3.0 then something like

on mouseUp
   put myTest() into tArray
   put tArray["othervalue"] into mySimpleVariable
   delete variable tArray["othervalue"]
   put the keys of tArray
end mouseUp

function myTest
   put "app" into tArray[1]
   put "win" into tArray[2]
   put "lin" into tArray[3]
   put 2 into tArray["othervalue"]
end myTest

best,

Mark

On 1 Dec 2008, at 22:19, william humphrey wrote:

> I noticed that you can't return a mix of an array and a variable. This
> doesn't work (it only works if the params are both simple variables  
> or if
> you only have one parm - the array) :
>
> *on* mouseUp
>
>    *put* the first item of MyTest() into myArray
>
>    *put* the keys of myArray
>
> *end* mouseUp
>
>
> *function* MyTest
>
>    *put* "app" into pfirst[1]
>
>    *put* "win" into pfirst[2]
>
>    *put* "lin" into pfirst[3]
>
>    *put* 2 into psecond
>
>    *return* pfirst, psecond
>
> *end* MyTest
>
>
> I needed to do something like the above as the second parameter held a
> different data item so now I'm trying to figure out another way to  
> do it.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From nealk3nc at gmail.com  Mon Dec  1 18:24:19 2008
From: nealk3nc at gmail.com (Neal Campbell)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 18:24:19 -0500
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <p06240813c55a1d1337a2@192.168.1.102>
References: <300070.74148.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06240813c55a1d1337a2@192.168.1.102>
Message-ID: <325413300812011524m640630d1rd6e8fa6c318fbf72@mail.gmail.com>

To end the thread, my final answer is
"In my office"
#B->

Neal Campbell
Abroham Neal Software
Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux
(540) 242 0911
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Try Spot for OS X, the intelligent DXCluster Client at
www.abrohamnealsoftware.com -  $15.99
-------------------------------------------------
For a great dog book, visit www.abrohamneal.com
-------------------------------------------------
See the FlexRadio Systems Flex-5000a in
action at www.flex-videos.com




On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 6:03 PM, Robert Brenstein <rjb at robelko.com> wrote:
> On 01/12/08 at 14:22 -0800 Richmond Mathewson apparently wrote:
>>
>> Dear Robert Brenstein, there was no "apparently" about things, I wrote
>> what I wrote.
>>
>> However, just to throw another spanner in the works:-
>>
>> The very few times people ask me how I make my programs I state that I
>> use:
>>
>> "Runtime Revolution, a complete programming package."
>>
>> No 'language', 'IDE', 'GUI', and so on, os mentioned; probably because
>> most people seem perfectly satisfied with that answer. The few who are not
>> satisfied get treated to 30 minutes of my demonstrating RR, and 30 minutes
>> while I go away and let them play with RR. The end result is either
>> "Wow!" or "I don't understand how computers work anyway."
>
> Having a separate name for the language does not change any of the above.
>
>> As I have spent 90% of my adult life outwith my country of origin
>> the word 'Transcript' will always be linked in my mind with standing in
>> queues at embassies and various other state institutions with academic
>> transcript with stamps, seals, apostils and much, much more.
>>
>> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
>
> Considering the audience of the language, I doubt that many people have such
> a connotation.
>
> r
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From luis at anachreon.co.uk  Mon Dec  1 18:59:11 2008
From: luis at anachreon.co.uk (Luis)
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:59:11 +0000
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <325413300812011524m640630d1rd6e8fa6c318fbf72@mail.gmail.com>
References: <300070.74148.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<p06240813c55a1d1337a2@192.168.1.102>
	<325413300812011524m640630d1rd6e8fa6c318fbf72@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49347A4F.1030608@anachreon.co.uk>

Excellent! That's a keeper!

Cheers,

Luis.


Neal Campbell wrote:
> To end the thread, my final answer is
> "In my office"
> #B->
> 
> Neal Campbell
> Abroham Neal Software
> Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux
> (540) 242 0911
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Try Spot for OS X, the intelligent DXCluster Client at
> www.abrohamnealsoftware.com -  $15.99
> -------------------------------------------------
> For a great dog book, visit www.abrohamneal.com
> -------------------------------------------------
> See the FlexRadio Systems Flex-5000a in
> action at www.flex-videos.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 6:03 PM, Robert Brenstein <rjb at robelko.com> wrote:
>> On 01/12/08 at 14:22 -0800 Richmond Mathewson apparently wrote:
>>> Dear Robert Brenstein, there was no "apparently" about things, I wrote
>>> what I wrote.
>>>
>>> However, just to throw another spanner in the works:-
>>>
>>> The very few times people ask me how I make my programs I state that I
>>> use:
>>>
>>> "Runtime Revolution, a complete programming package."
>>>
>>> No 'language', 'IDE', 'GUI', and so on, os mentioned; probably because
>>> most people seem perfectly satisfied with that answer. The few who are not
>>> satisfied get treated to 30 minutes of my demonstrating RR, and 30 minutes
>>> while I go away and let them play with RR. The end result is either
>>> "Wow!" or "I don't understand how computers work anyway."
>> Having a separate name for the language does not change any of the above.
>>
>>> As I have spent 90% of my adult life outwith my country of origin
>>> the word 'Transcript' will always be linked in my mind with standing in
>>> queues at embassies and various other state institutions with academic
>>> transcript with stamps, seals, apostils and much, much more.
>>>
>>> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
>> Considering the audience of the language, I doubt that many people have such
>> a connotation.
>>
>> r
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 


From shoreagent at gmail.com  Mon Dec  1 19:15:10 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 20:15:10 -0400
Subject: difference between function and command and sending parameters
In-Reply-To: <5F0467FE-6D8E-498F-B2A9-50F9E378E513@futilism.com>
References: <459b22a90810170918t366b5247k3a0202063cd81a0a@mail.gmail.com>
	<C51E0C6A.52779%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
	<459b22a90810171003q6e7d9e87r6fa8a97c66e87c8d@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240800c51eb1af5ab9@192.168.1.70>
	<459b22a90812011419q6bb97adbw2585a072016eb810@mail.gmail.com>
	<5F0467FE-6D8E-498F-B2A9-50F9E378E513@futilism.com>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812011615p7fb392baj1b59756d620587bf@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks. My arrays aren't that big but i like how I can call them in repeat
loops (I'm generating XML)


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Dec  1 19:43:34 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:43:34 -0600
Subject: preserve custom folder icons in OSX
In-Reply-To: <667B5B2C-BD6B-48E4-8B66-0EDB30833696@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <C559E0D6.17AD7%kray@sonsothunder.com>




On 12/1/08 2:24 AM, "Scott Morrow" <scott at elementarysoftware.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to add, as part of an installer app, the ability to
> reproduce any original custom folder icons in OSX (and perhaps OS9 as
> I think it uses the same mechanism).  In other words, I would like to
> be able to suck up the custom folder icon information along with
> everything else so that it can be restored when the folder is spit out
> elsewhere.

Can you just zip up the folder? That may keep the custom icon intact.

> I can't seem to touch or otherwise get a peek at the resource inside
> the icon\r file without first renaming it to something without the
> carriage return.

Yeah, I couldn't either from inside Rev - I can only work with it in the
shell().


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Mon Dec  1 20:46:04 2008
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (Scott Morrow)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:46:04 -0800
Subject: preserve custom folder icons in OSX
In-Reply-To: <C559E0D6.17AD7%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <C559E0D6.17AD7%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <2E666094-E0DB-4E93-B61C-BC785F0B78FB@elementarysoftware.com>


On Dec 1, 2008, at 4:43 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
>
> On 12/1/08 2:24 AM, "Scott Morrow" <scott at elementarysoftware.com>  
> wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to add, as part of an installer app, the ability to
>> reproduce any original custom folder icons in OSX (and perhaps OS9 as
>> I think it uses the same mechanism).  In other words, I would like to
>> be able to suck up the custom folder icon information along with
>> everything else so that it can be restored when the folder is spit  
>> out
>> elsewhere.
>
> Can you just zip up the folder? That may keep the custom icon intact.

The rest of the installer app already works by sucking up folders, not  
all of which are destined for the same place.  I was just trying to  
put a little extra polish on.  Perhaps I should have zipped each  
folder and then sucked it up!

>> I can't seem to touch or otherwise get a peek at the resource inside
>> the icon\r file without first renaming it to something without the
>> carriage return.
>
> Yeah, I couldn't either from inside Rev - I can only work with it in  
> the
> shell().

Hmm, perhaps I could use shell() to duplicate and rename the file,  
then suck that up with rev.  I think spitting it out later with a CR  
in the name will work.
Thanks.

Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       http://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com


From shoreagent at gmail.com  Mon Dec  1 21:16:00 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 22:16:00 -0400
Subject: Sqlite remotely
In-Reply-To: <C559DA84.147%hershf@rgllc.us>
References: <C559DA84.147%hershf@rgllc.us>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812011816s28fa890ai78a6f0d8d99bd216@mail.gmail.com>

Remotely? like multi-user on a server?

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:16 PM, hershel fisch <hershf at rgllc.us> wrote:

> Hi, how would be the appropriate way if there is, to work with SQLite
> remotely?
> Hershel Fisch
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.bluewatermaritime.com


From vokey at uleth.ca  Mon Dec  1 21:49:06 2008
From: vokey at uleth.ca (John Vokey)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 19:49:06 -0700
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <20081202021603.DDDA448A370@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20081202021603.DDDA448A370@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BD1401E7-AE0B-458D-946B-8AEC92496A15@uleth.ca>

I say the same thing, except I call it Metacard.

On 1-Dec-08, at 7:16 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> However, just to throw another spanner in the works:-
>
> The very few times people ask me how I make my programs I state that  
> I use:
>
> "Runtime Revolution, a complete programming package."
>
> No 'language', 'IDE', 'GUI', and so on, os mentioned; probably because
> most people seem perfectly satisfied with that answer. The few who  
> are not
> satisfied get treated to 30 minutes of my demonstrating RR, and 30  
> minutes
> while I go away and let them play with RR. The end result is either
> "Wow!" or "I don't understand how computers work anyway."

--
Yep, the dyslexic atheist claims there is no dog, but that is not half  
as risky as the dyslexic devil worshiper who sold his soul to Santa ;-)

Dr. John R. Vokey





From sims at ezpzapps.com  Mon Dec  1 23:25:18 2008
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim Sims)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 05:25:18 +0100
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <665591460812011505q31621d29xd92d4b569b1b0da0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <177327.39459.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<665591460812011505q31621d29xd92d4b569b1b0da0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9B9AABE0-1842-4AE4-8311-7588B5B2D3FA@ezpzapps.com>


On Dec 2, 2008, at 12:05 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:
> I'm like Richard. I rarely if ever have to defend RR as I've got some
> long standing Rev projects in the works. I was only responding to the
> originator of this thread regarding the subject:
> "When they ask, what is this written in?"

'Twas I who asked that simple question; of course they never are.   ;-)

Like Chipp, I prefer Transcript. I do think that having the name of the
language the same as the product is confusing. One also has the  
emotional
and additional baggage that the word "Revolution" lugs around with  
itself.

I asked because recently a potential client told me that 'real' programs
are written in C++  (actually, he said "C"). He had heard of "C", maybe
even seen it in  a book or a movie like The Matrix. His understanding
or knowledge of it all stopped there. However, he had money, wanted to
do something, and 'had to have' "C" - period, end of story.

Last year, the Le Web event was crawling with investors. Might be fewer
or more this year. With a project in the competition I want (and need)
to be prepared as well as I can. It's great to be able to tap into the  
combined
wisdom and experience of this crowd in the Rev List.

Congrats to those who are in a position to tell off potential clients  
who
have uninformed views of writing software. I've got plenty of respect  
for
people like Chipp and Richard who have lots of long standing client,
they have surely earned them in various ways. I happen to be between
adventures, I need to take advantage of a particular opportunity and
don't want to screw up. Maybe I'm dumb enough to need advice but
smart enough to ask   ;-)

When I win this 'thang' I will get to talk to people from the Wall  
Street
Journal (Kara Swisher), Fred Wilson, Scoble, and others. When talking to
them I will say www.RunRev.com - not Transcript or Revolution.

sims




From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Tue Dec  2 00:43:32 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 21:43:32 -0800
Subject: ATTN: Max Schaefer who wrote Math Program
Message-ID: <4be051070812012143t48be045ew4c241a536b263e16@mail.gmail.com>

Max:
Could you please contact me off-list at katheryn.swynford at gmail.com?

We met at RevConWest this year and I've lost track of your math program (my
husband's the mathematician).

Kindest thanks,

Judy Perry
http://revined.blogspot.com


From randall at randallreetz.com  Tue Dec  2 01:22:33 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Reetz)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 22:22:33 -0800
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
Message-ID: <20081202062517.ZFQS22183.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>

Ya what up with the name "revolution"?  Weird.  Especially for a forth generation great grandson of a derivative.  That is the real source of awkward.  Product must be good.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Jim Sims" <sims at ezpzapps.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: 12/1/2008 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: When they ask, what is this written in?


On Dec 2, 2008, at 12:05 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:
> I'm like Richard. I rarely if ever have to defend RR as I've got some
> long standing Rev projects in the works. I was only responding to the
> originator of this thread regarding the subject:
> "When they ask, what is this written in?"

'Twas I who asked that simple question; of course they never are.   ;-)

Like Chipp, I prefer Transcript. I do think that having the name of the
language the same as the product is confusing. One also has the  
emotional
and additional baggage that the word "Revolution" lugs around with  
itself.

I asked because recently a potential client told me that 'real' programs
are written in C++  (actually, he said "C"). He had heard of "C", maybe
even seen it in  a book or a movie like The Matrix. His understanding
or knowledge of it all stopped there. However, he had money, wanted to
do something, and 'had to have' "C" - period, end of story.

Last year, the Le Web event was crawling with investors. Might be fewer
or more this year. With a project in the competition I want (and need)
to be prepared as well as I can. It's great to be able to tap into the  
combined
wisdom and experience of this crowd in the Rev List.

Congrats to those who are in a position to tell off potential clients  
who
have uninformed views of writing software. I've got plenty of respect  
for
people like Chipp and Richard who have lots of long standing client,
they have surely earned them in various ways. I happen to be between
adventures, I need to take advantage of a particular opportunity and
don't want to screw up. Maybe I'm dumb enough to need advice but
smart enough to ask   ;-)

When I win this 'thang' I will get to talk to people from the Wall  
Street
Journal (Kara Swisher), Fred Wilson, Scoble, and others. When talking to
them I will say www.RunRev.com - not Transcript or Revolution.

sims


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Tue Dec  2 01:30:20 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 22:30:20 -0800
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <20081202062517.ZFQS22183.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>
References: <20081202062517.ZFQS22183.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>
Message-ID: <4be051070812012230oacf0d51p26c29d177876c988@mail.gmail.com>

I dunno...  I LIKE Revolution, but can see the Googling problems inherent in
it being *the name*.
Still, there's another problem -- that of changing the name of the product,
language, product lines numerous times.

Seems to me that, unless the above names suck markedly, leave them be!  I
imagine that repeatedly changing names of things looks suspiciously like
re-listing a house that simply cannot sell... (not that that's what I think
of the product, only that repeatedly changing names may suggest such an
analogy to others unfamiliar with the product).

But then again, I'm an artist who doesn't ship ;-)

Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:22 PM, Randall Reetz <randall at randallreetz.com>wrote:

> Ya what up with the name "revolution"?  Weird.  Especially for a forth
> generation great grandson of a derivative.  That is the real source of
> awkward.  Product must be good.
>
>


From viktoras at ekoinf.net  Tue Dec  2 01:52:22 2008
From: viktoras at ekoinf.net (viktoras didziulis)
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 08:52:22 +0200
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <9B9AABE0-1842-4AE4-8311-7588B5B2D3FA@ezpzapps.com>
References: <177327.39459.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<665591460812011505q31621d29xd92d4b569b1b0da0@mail.gmail.com>
	<9B9AABE0-1842-4AE4-8311-7588B5B2D3FA@ezpzapps.com>
Message-ID: <4934DB26.8030007@ekoinf.net>

he knew too few about programming,- maybe it is better to avoid people 
like that, because their expectations sometimes may be unreal. You know, 
there are many Delphi/Pascal programmers around, the language being 
ranked 8th place by its spread and usage, tons of stuff's written in 
that language (in many cases it compiles to faster code than C/C++, 
because it allows to avoid silly mistakes and bugs, etc, etc..) and they 
also tell stories about meeting "knowledgeable experts" asking them to 
do things in C only. And there is nothing you can do about these 
people,- they just are... like people who care more about what car they 
will be riding rather than what is their destination ;-)

all the best
Viktoras

Jim Sims wrote:
> I asked because recently a potential client told me that 'real' programs
> are written in C++  (actually, he said "C"). He had heard of "C", maybe
> even seen it in  a book or a movie like The Matrix. His understanding
> or knowledge of it all stopped there. However, he had money, wanted to
> do something, and 'had to have' "C" - period, end of story.



From palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Dec  2 03:37:35 2008
From: palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk (Peter Alcibiades)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 08:37:35 +0000
Subject: When they ask, find out what the real question is
Message-ID: <200812020837.36047.palcibiades-first@yahoo.co.uk>

The question is not going to be asked in a vacuum. You have to find out what 
the specific concern is, if there is one.  It may be just an item on a check 
list.  Or it may be related to policy on having control of the application in 
various circumstances, maintainability and so on.  Whatever, you have to find 
out what they really want to know.  

I bet that 90% of the time, when this question is asked, and the answer 'C++' 
is given, that is not the end of the matter either, but that questions about 
maintainability, source archiving, documentation start being asked.

On the open source issue, the customer is being asked to make a bet.  He is 
committing to an application written in a language that is (1) closed source 
(2) a minority language.   It may be a great bet, the risk reward ratio may 
be brilliant, but that is what it is.  There will be some customers who feel 
uneasy about this. They may essentially be asking questions about, what 
happens if you the programmer get hit by a truck tomorrow.  And what happens 
if Rev the company goes bust and the language does not find a buyer to 
maintain it?  What happens if it goes the way of Hypercard?

I suspect if the dialogue gets serious on the topic of the language, these are 
the concerns you have to answer.  But only start in on this when satisified 
that this is the issue, there is no point in suggesting difficulties.

Peter


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Dec  2 03:44:38 2008
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:44:38 +0100
Subject: "01/01/1969" is a date = true on Mac but not on Windows?
Message-ID: <8209F55B-2850-423D-A0FD-EB0BFE43A85D@major-k.de>

Hi freinds,

the subject says it all :-/
Please tell me that I am overlooking something obvious!!!!


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de




From toolbook at kestner.de  Tue Dec  2 03:53:19 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:53:19 +0100
Subject: How to verify a put url?
Message-ID: <967C4F214C8D4429ACF624334102EEA4@Kestner.local>

Hello

When a "put URL tUrl into URL ("binfile:" & tFile)" fails, e.g. because the
target file already exists and is in use, I don't get an error, it just
doesn't replace the file. Also trying to "try - put - catch" doesn't throws
me an error. Are there any other approaches to verify, if the result of a
put into url is ok?

Thanks

Tiemo

 

 



From palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Dec  2 04:10:20 2008
From: palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk (Peter Alcibiades)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:10:20 +0000
Subject: By the way, the questions all have answers
Message-ID: <200812020910.20391.palcibiades-first@yahoo.co.uk>

The questions are going to have answers - they may not be confined to stating 
the merits of the language, however.  Like, it may be an answer to the 
question what if something happens to you, to reply that you have an 
arrangement with X in another city.  The chances of trucks hitting both of 
you are negligible.  On the issue of what happens if it goes the way of 
Hypercard, you may have answers on the lines of how easy it will be to 
convert to another environment, or how unlikely this is.  

All environments have things for the customer to worry about.  Open Source, 
what happens if it goes off down a blind alley like KDE4 appeared to be doing 
for several months?  What happens if fashions change and everyone moves to 
the new flavor?

Just because they have legitimate concerns, and they are concerns specific to 
Rev perhaps, does not mean they will not see that its still a good choice for 
them, if the situation is explained clearly.

Peter


From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Tue Dec  2 05:06:27 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 11:06:27 +0100
Subject: How to verify a put url?
In-Reply-To: <967C4F214C8D4429ACF624334102EEA4@Kestner.local>
References: <967C4F214C8D4429ACF624334102EEA4@Kestner.local>
Message-ID: <014768C2-9ECA-49AB-9614-E9278913E07C@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi Tiemo,

As Peter writes, the answer is in the question. Check "the result",  
which might say something like "can't open file".

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

Color Converter has been updated! Get it at
http://colorconverter.economy-x-talk.com !

On 2 dec 2008, at 09:53, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:

> Hello
>
> When a "put URL tUrl into URL ("binfile:" & tFile)" fails, e.g.  
> because the
> target file already exists and is in use, I don't get an error, it  
> just
> doesn't replace the file. Also trying to "try - put - catch" doesn't  
> throws
> me an error. Are there any other approaches to verify, if the result  
> of a
> put into url is ok?
>
> Thanks
>
> Tiemo



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Dec  2 06:01:04 2008
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 12:01:04 +0100
Subject: "01/01/1969" is a date = true on Mac but not on Windows?
In-Reply-To: <8209F55B-2850-423D-A0FD-EB0BFE43A85D@major-k.de>
References: <8209F55B-2850-423D-A0FD-EB0BFE43A85D@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <BA49AF42-E6B5-4034-94D7-453E08A008F4@major-k.de>

Hi all,

Am 02.12.2008 um 09:44 schrieb Klaus Major:

> Hi freinds,
>
> the subject says it all :-/
> Please tell me that I am overlooking something obvious!!!!

sorry, just found the appropriate info in the docs, but they were listed
under "is a" and not the obvious "date" entry ;-)

Any hints on how to verify these dates on windows without too much  
effort?


Best

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de




From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Tue Dec  2 07:21:46 2008
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 22:21:46 +1000
Subject: "01/01/1969" is a date = true on Mac but not on Windows?
In-Reply-To: <BA49AF42-E6B5-4034-94D7-453E08A008F4@major-k.de>
References: <8209F55B-2850-423D-A0FD-EB0BFE43A85D@major-k.de>
	<BA49AF42-E6B5-4034-94D7-453E08A008F4@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <f99b52860812020421g303202f1o2df16d8e04a293c7@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 9:01 PM, Klaus Major <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Am 02.12.2008 um 09:44 schrieb Klaus Major:
>
>> Hi freinds,
>>
>> the subject says it all :-/
>> Please tell me that I am overlooking something obvious!!!!

Sorry, you are not. On Windows, dates before 1/1/1970 will not appear as dates.

> sorry, just found the appropriate info in the docs, but they were listed
> under "is a" and not the obvious "date" entry ;-)
>
> Any hints on how to verify these dates on windows without too much effort?

Not as far as I know. I wrote a routine to do this which I can dig out
if you need it.

Cheers,
Sarah


From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Tue Dec  2 08:26:10 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 08:26:10 -0500
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <9B9AABE0-1842-4AE4-8311-7588B5B2D3FA@ezpzapps.com>
References: <177327.39459.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<665591460812011505q31621d29xd92d4b569b1b0da0@mail.gmail.com>
	<9B9AABE0-1842-4AE4-8311-7588B5B2D3FA@ezpzapps.com>
Message-ID: <B794B65C-FA8B-4590-A13E-F651D1E2878F@mac.com>


On Dec 1, 2008, at 11:25 PM, Jim Sims wrote:

> Maybe I'm dumb enough to need advice but
> smart enough to ask   ;-)


And make sure you stay this way! There is no body smart enough not to  
need some advice sometimes and there are very few people who will ask.  
I believe it is the smartest people who know when to ask for advice.  
Albert Einstein said one time that the smartest thing he ever did was  
to surround himself with geniuses. That is the main reason I love this  
list.


Tom McGrath




Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html






From mikeythek at gmail.com  Tue Dec  2 09:20:20 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:20:20 -0500
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <B794B65C-FA8B-4590-A13E-F651D1E2878F@mac.com>
References: <177327.39459.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<665591460812011505q31621d29xd92d4b569b1b0da0@mail.gmail.com>
	<9B9AABE0-1842-4AE4-8311-7588B5B2D3FA@ezpzapps.com>
	<B794B65C-FA8B-4590-A13E-F651D1E2878F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812020620u70027a55q5c2ba29eb8374cba@mail.gmail.com>

Not to pick on Einstein, but it was his wife's work.  He took credit
for it for them both, due to the societal norms in the early 20th
century, which was inconvenient when they divorced, since he didn't
accomplish anything afterwards.

Just another flame war started by me.  You're welcome.


From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Tue Dec  2 09:39:49 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 09:39:49 -0500
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <9b408d8e0812020620u70027a55q5c2ba29eb8374cba@mail.gmail.com>
References: <177327.39459.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<665591460812011505q31621d29xd92d4b569b1b0da0@mail.gmail.com>
	<9B9AABE0-1842-4AE4-8311-7588B5B2D3FA@ezpzapps.com>
	<B794B65C-FA8B-4590-A13E-F651D1E2878F@mac.com>
	<9b408d8e0812020620u70027a55q5c2ba29eb8374cba@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C272AB2D-6A27-43A4-960F-589C634D6886@mac.com>

That is a common misconception but is highly regarded as not true. She  
may have influenced him during the first part of their marriage but  
the last five years they didn't even live together.

Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html





On Dec 2, 2008, at 9:20 AM, Mikey wrote:

> Not to pick on Einstein, but it was his wife's work.  He took credit
> for it for them both, due to the societal norms in the early 20th
> century, which was inconvenient when they divorced, since he didn't
> accomplish anything afterwards.
>
> Just another flame war started by me.  You're welcome.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From pepetoo at cox.net  Tue Dec  2 09:53:03 2008
From: pepetoo at cox.net (Joe Lewis Wilkins)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 06:53:03 -0800
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <C272AB2D-6A27-43A4-960F-589C634D6886@mac.com>
References: <177327.39459.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<665591460812011505q31621d29xd92d4b569b1b0da0@mail.gmail.com>
	<9B9AABE0-1842-4AE4-8311-7588B5B2D3FA@ezpzapps.com>
	<B794B65C-FA8B-4590-A13E-F651D1E2878F@mac.com>
	<9b408d8e0812020620u70027a55q5c2ba29eb8374cba@mail.gmail.com>
	<C272AB2D-6A27-43A4-960F-589C634D6886@mac.com>
Message-ID: <F701430D-2CB2-42F5-85CB-9C0192A8E9B8@cox.net>

Wasn''t  that the whole point?

Joe Wilkins

On Dec 2, 2008, at 6:39 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> That is a common misconception but is highly regarded as not true.  
> She may have influenced him during the first part of their marriage  
> but the last five years they didn't even live together.
>
> Tom McGrath III
> Lazy River Software
> 3mcgrath at comcast.net
>
> iTunes Library Suite - libITS
> Information and download can be found on this page:
> http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html







From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Dec  2 09:54:20 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 06:54:20 -0800
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
Message-ID: <49354C1C.8090308@fourthworld.com>

Mikey wrote:
> Not to pick on Einstein, but it was his wife's work.  He took credit
> for it for them both, due to the societal norms in the early 20th
> century, which was inconvenient when they divorced, since he didn't
> accomplish anything afterwards.

I can find no documentation supporting the notion that Einstein was a fraud.

The most extreme version of that I've come across is merely that 
Einstein's first wife, Mileva Maric, was a contributor to his work.

And even that seems based on slender and sometimes misquoted evidence, 
and is strongly refuted by many Einstein historians:

<http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/print/19267>

There is little doubt that Ms. Maric was a talented if not brilliant 
physicist, and indeed in a different era she might well have been more 
famous.  And as Einstein's wife no doubt their conversations had some 
influence on the direction of his research.

But did she specifically do most of the work on the papers he published 
under his own name?  I can't turn up anything to substantiate that.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From mikeythek at gmail.com  Tue Dec  2 10:41:43 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:41:43 -0500
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <49354C1C.8090308@fourthworld.com>
References: <49354C1C.8090308@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812020741h73c640ds281afed6aec224c@mail.gmail.com>

The argument that Mr. Einstein's work is credited incorrectly to him
and not to her, and ignoring the arguments of plagiarism from other
physicists of the day - a whole OTHER flamewar topic - is based on
some documentary and some circumstantial evidence.  Unfortunately the
verbose paper I wrote on this, based on the research of others was
written some 20-or-so years ago, so the exact facts are fuzzy to me,
but the argument goes like this:

1) Letters from him to her mention "our" work, in the context of his
and hers, especially preceding and during 1905, the year when "his"
most important physics is published.
2) The work that earned the Nobel in Physics was all done while they
were him & her.  As we all know, that was for the experimental
corroboration of Planck's Photoelectric Effect (the mathematical
hypothesis from Planck and Einstein's experimental work = Quantam
Mechanics).  Indeed, all five spectacular papers that "he" wrote were
in 1905.
3) After their bitter divorce, his work meanders all over the place
and accomplishes nothing.  One may also argue that after 1905 he
doesn't accomplish anything, but that is a different horse.
4) After 1905, she goes on to continue to publish interesting Physics,
although nothing as spectacular as the five pillars of modern Physics.
5) It appears based on style and grammar (and good spelling) that she
actually did the writing.  Was she acting as his secretary? Maybe, but
she was older than he and significantly further along in her graduate
work at the time.

That's the crux of what I remember.  Hey, at least I got an "A" from a
Ph.D. who was an Einstein "Nut".


From mikeythek at gmail.com  Tue Dec  2 10:46:46 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:46:46 -0500
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <C272AB2D-6A27-43A4-960F-589C634D6886@mac.com>
References: <177327.39459.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<665591460812011505q31621d29xd92d4b569b1b0da0@mail.gmail.com>
	<9B9AABE0-1842-4AE4-8311-7588B5B2D3FA@ezpzapps.com>
	<B794B65C-FA8B-4590-A13E-F651D1E2878F@mac.com>
	<9b408d8e0812020620u70027a55q5c2ba29eb8374cba@mail.gmail.com>
	<C272AB2D-6A27-43A4-960F-589C634D6886@mac.com>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812020746y74a31a64g7286a14d0b2ffdef@mail.gmail.com>

> That is a common misconception but is highly regarded as not true. She may
> have influenced him during the first part of their marriage but the last
> five years they didn't even live together.

You'll have to forgive me for not remembering all of this, but THE
papers were written in 1905, when the love letters are pretty typical
for lovebirds.  I believe they didn't divorce until 1920-ish.

I was busier at the time trying to keep my brain wrapped around all
the differential equations, but this research was a welcome diversion
for a couple of weeks.


From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Tue Dec  2 10:56:18 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 10:56:18 -0500
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <F701430D-2CB2-42F5-85CB-9C0192A8E9B8@cox.net>
References: <177327.39459.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<665591460812011505q31621d29xd92d4b569b1b0da0@mail.gmail.com>
	<9B9AABE0-1842-4AE4-8311-7588B5B2D3FA@ezpzapps.com>
	<B794B65C-FA8B-4590-A13E-F651D1E2878F@mac.com>
	<9b408d8e0812020620u70027a55q5c2ba29eb8374cba@mail.gmail.com>
	<C272AB2D-6A27-43A4-960F-589C634D6886@mac.com>
	<F701430D-2CB2-42F5-85CB-9C0192A8E9B8@cox.net>
Message-ID: <E3CD89C4-898B-4101-9E07-4C5FD883DC51@mac.com>

Joe, I don't think that was the point at all. He was saying that it  
was not Einstein's work at all but rather his wife's work that 'he  
took credit for'. My wife influences me all of the time in my work but  
she has no knowledge what-so-ever of programming. Most of the time her  
influence is a positive influence and being able to bounce ideas off  
of her helps me look at a problem I am taking on in new ways.

" Not to pick on Einstein, but it was his wife's work.  He took credit
for it"


Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html

On Dec 2, 2008, at 9:53 AM, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:

> Wasn''t  that the whole point?
>
> Joe Wilkins
>
> On Dec 2, 2008, at 6:39 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> That is a common misconception but is highly regarded as not true.  
>> She may have influenced him during the first part of their marriage  
>> but the last five years they didn't even live together.
>>
>> Tom McGrath III
>> Lazy River Software
>> 3mcgrath at comcast.net
>>
>> iTunes Library Suite - libITS
>> Information and download can be found on this page:
>> http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Tue Dec  2 11:11:48 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 11:11:48 -0500
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <9b408d8e0812020741h73c640ds281afed6aec224c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49354C1C.8090308@fourthworld.com>
	<9b408d8e0812020741h73c640ds281afed6aec224c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2D70CC0A-6946-402C-B223-F92D88C749BA@mac.com>

That must have been a very interesting paper you wrote. I would love  
to read it sometime.

My only comment would be that during their marriage A.E. would have  
been influenced both by his wife and by his work at the patent office.  
Later on in life he would continue to bring great minds together and I  
think his contributions between 1917 and the late 1920's were  
revolutionary in understanding Quantum theory and mechanics. This is  
not to say that his first wife did not influence him but rather to say  
that it was always his way to surround himself with great minds.


Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html


On Dec 2, 2008, at 10:41 AM, Mikey wrote:

> The argument that Mr. Einstein's work is credited incorrectly to him
> and not to her, ...
>
> That's the crux of what I remember.  Hey, at least I got an "A" from a
> Ph.D. who was an Einstein "Nut".
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From coiin at rcn.com  Tue Dec  2 11:14:17 2008
From: coiin at rcn.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 11:14:17 -0500
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <E3CD89C4-898B-4101-9E07-4C5FD883DC51@mac.com>
References: <177327.39459.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<665591460812011505q31621d29xd92d4b569b1b0da0@mail.gmail.com>
	<9B9AABE0-1842-4AE4-8311-7588B5B2D3FA@ezpzapps.com>
	<B794B65C-FA8B-4590-A13E-F651D1E2878F@mac.com>
	<9b408d8e0812020620u70027a55q5c2ba29eb8374cba@mail.gmail.com>
	<C272AB2D-6A27-43A4-960F-589C634D6886@mac.com>
	<F701430D-2CB2-42F5-85CB-9C0192A8E9B8@cox.net>
	<E3CD89C4-898B-4101-9E07-4C5FD883DC51@mac.com>
Message-ID: <F8BF4690-28EE-47CE-9AF2-30F8AB0D6D6A@rcn.com>


On Dec 2, 2008, at 10:56 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> " Not to pick on Einstein, but it was his wife's work.  He took credit
> for it"

A-ha! So, what you're saying is that it was all about relativity?




From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Tue Dec  2 11:19:18 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 11:19:18 -0500
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <F8BF4690-28EE-47CE-9AF2-30F8AB0D6D6A@rcn.com>
References: <177327.39459.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<665591460812011505q31621d29xd92d4b569b1b0da0@mail.gmail.com>
	<9B9AABE0-1842-4AE4-8311-7588B5B2D3FA@ezpzapps.com>
	<B794B65C-FA8B-4590-A13E-F651D1E2878F@mac.com>
	<9b408d8e0812020620u70027a55q5c2ba29eb8374cba@mail.gmail.com>
	<C272AB2D-6A27-43A4-960F-589C634D6886@mac.com>
	<F701430D-2CB2-42F5-85CB-9C0192A8E9B8@cox.net>
	<E3CD89C4-898B-4101-9E07-4C5FD883DC51@mac.com>
	<F8BF4690-28EE-47CE-9AF2-30F8AB0D6D6A@rcn.com>
Message-ID: <5E855A88-077E-412C-971A-5E79CE78EAFE@mac.com>

Relatives, relativity, it's all the same....

Besides, didn't he marry his second cousin as his second wife??? So,  
it gets even more relative.


On Dec 2, 2008, at 11:14 AM, Colin Holgate wrote:

>
> On Dec 2, 2008, at 9:20 AM, Mikey wrote:
>
>> " Not to pick on Einstein, but it was his wife's work.  He took  
>> credit
>> for it"
>
> A-ha! So, what you're saying is that it was all about relativity?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mikeythek at gmail.com  Tue Dec  2 11:21:08 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 11:21:08 -0500
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <F8BF4690-28EE-47CE-9AF2-30F8AB0D6D6A@rcn.com>
References: <177327.39459.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<665591460812011505q31621d29xd92d4b569b1b0da0@mail.gmail.com>
	<9B9AABE0-1842-4AE4-8311-7588B5B2D3FA@ezpzapps.com>
	<B794B65C-FA8B-4590-A13E-F651D1E2878F@mac.com>
	<9b408d8e0812020620u70027a55q5c2ba29eb8374cba@mail.gmail.com>
	<C272AB2D-6A27-43A4-960F-589C634D6886@mac.com>
	<F701430D-2CB2-42F5-85CB-9C0192A8E9B8@cox.net>
	<E3CD89C4-898B-4101-9E07-4C5FD883DC51@mac.com>
	<F8BF4690-28EE-47CE-9AF2-30F8AB0D6D6A@rcn.com>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812020821y4bc9736fxe5486ab06862f95d@mail.gmail.com>

> A-ha! So, what you're saying is that it was all about relativity?

And the thread descends into the basement of puns.


From coiin at rcn.com  Tue Dec  2 11:26:07 2008
From: coiin at rcn.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 11:26:07 -0500
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <9b408d8e0812020821y4bc9736fxe5486ab06862f95d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <177327.39459.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<665591460812011505q31621d29xd92d4b569b1b0da0@mail.gmail.com>
	<9B9AABE0-1842-4AE4-8311-7588B5B2D3FA@ezpzapps.com>
	<B794B65C-FA8B-4590-A13E-F651D1E2878F@mac.com>
	<9b408d8e0812020620u70027a55q5c2ba29eb8374cba@mail.gmail.com>
	<C272AB2D-6A27-43A4-960F-589C634D6886@mac.com>
	<F701430D-2CB2-42F5-85CB-9C0192A8E9B8@cox.net>
	<E3CD89C4-898B-4101-9E07-4C5FD883DC51@mac.com>
	<F8BF4690-28EE-47CE-9AF2-30F8AB0D6D6A@rcn.com>
	<9b408d8e0812020821y4bc9736fxe5486ab06862f95d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1B580C0C-4E38-4850-A3D9-1E4C7A16DD6B@rcn.com>


On Dec 2, 2008, at 11:21 AM, Mikey wrote:

>> A-ha! So, what you're saying is that it was all about relativity?
>
> And the thread descends into the basement of puns.

It ac-cellar-ated there.





From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com  Tue Dec  2 11:30:03 2008
From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 08:30:03 -0800
Subject: OT: Edu Users Interested in Art/3D Art and Rev
Message-ID: <314A8E00EB8B4FE19BFD8EA3B4178A14@GATEWAY>

Hello all,

Without going into great NDA busting detail, Mirye has picked up exclusive,
worldwide rights to a 3D software product (Windows and Mac, both) which
should be announced in time for MacWorld. Though Rev has little to do with
3D, Rev is a superior multimedia system for content aggregation.

We've been getting Rev out through academic friendly sales channels, like
Programmer's Paradise, Academic Superstore and even a small presence on
Amazon. However Im exploring the content side of academic promotion,
especially in context to Rev + Content (graphics, video, audio) since that
seems to be a stronger emphasis in multimedia education now in K-12
(podcasting, video production, interactive web, etc) than programming as a
"standalone" topic.

Id like to assess interest for this in the Rev community and who all might
be interested in a special interest group. Unfortunately I don't have any
body parts to trade, but I may have a spare piece of Malte left after his
big giveaway ;-)

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
Mirye Software Publishing
http://www.mirye.com

Mirye Community NING
http://miryesoftware.ning.com 



From mikeythek at gmail.com  Tue Dec  2 11:31:40 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 11:31:40 -0500
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <2D70CC0A-6946-402C-B223-F92D88C749BA@mac.com>
References: <49354C1C.8090308@fourthworld.com>
	<9b408d8e0812020741h73c640ds281afed6aec224c@mail.gmail.com>
	<2D70CC0A-6946-402C-B223-F92D88C749BA@mac.com>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812020831n9f1b1efo7982c50dbaac2e36@mail.gmail.com>

> That must have been a very interesting paper you wrote. I would love to read
> it sometime.
I'll have to call my dead prof. to see if he still has it somewhere.


> My only comment would be that during their marriage A.E. would have been
> influenced both by his wife and by his work at the patent office.
And that takes us to the other major group of Einstein detractors,
those that argue that he was a blatant and serial plagiarizer.  I do
not remember anyone arguing that he stole ideas from the patent
office, but there was a bunch of grumbling that he did from fellow
physicists, ones that were already accomplished, and therefore did not
mind sharing their work with a student (at the time) when he asked for
copies.

I am not making the following argument, I am just regurgitating it.  I
have not researched it, so I am just digging into the pit of trivia to
toss out the nugget.
Again, if memory serves me right, one of the major red flags is the
fact that the paper on mass-energy equivalency (e=mc^2, i.e. special
relativity) lacks a single footnote, which is at best suspicious,
given that other "physicists" (more like hobbyists) were already
working in this area, and, like most major revolutions in Physics, it
was scoffed at (similar to Planck's mathematical supposition of the
existence of quanta before the photoelectric effect was demonstrated).


From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Tue Dec  2 11:39:55 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 11:39:55 -0500
Subject: When they ask, what is this written in?
In-Reply-To: <E3CD89C4-898B-4101-9E07-4C5FD883DC51@mac.com>
References: <177327.39459.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<665591460812011505q31621d29xd92d4b569b1b0da0@mail.gmail.com>
	<9B9AABE0-1842-4AE4-8311-7588B5B2D3FA@ezpzapps.com>
	<B794B65C-FA8B-4590-A13E-F651D1E2878F@mac.com>
	<9b408d8e0812020620u70027a55q5c2ba29eb8374cba@mail.gmail.com>
	<C272AB2D-6A27-43A4-960F-589C634D6886@mac.com>
	<F701430D-2CB2-42F5-85CB-9C0192A8E9B8@cox.net>
	<E3CD89C4-898B-4101-9E07-4C5FD883DC51@mac.com>
Message-ID: <42D1C1AC-211D-4DD5-A6D8-7A9D7955312E@mac.com>


Joe, thinking further, in a bigger sense, maybe that is the point.  We  
are all influenced by everything around us.

Thanks

Tom

On Dec 2, 2008, at 10:56 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Joe, I don't think that was the point at all. He was saying that it  
> was not Einstein's work at all but rather his wife's work that 'he  
> took credit for'. My wife influences me all of the time in my work  
> but she has no knowledge what-so-ever of programming. Most of the  
> time her influence is a positive influence and being able to bounce  
> ideas off of her helps me look at a problem I am taking on in new  
> ways.
>
> " Not to pick on Einstein, but it was his wife's work.  He took credit
> for it"
>
>
> Tom McGrath III
> Lazy River Software
> 3mcgrath at comcast.net
>
> iTunes Library Suite - libITS
> Information and download can be found on this page:
> http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html
>
> On Dec 2, 2008, at 9:53 AM, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:
>
>> Wasn''t  that the whole point?
>>
>> Joe Wilkins
>>
>> On Dec 2, 2008, at 6:39 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>>
>>> That is a common misconception but is highly regarded as not true.  
>>> She may have influenced him during the first part of their  
>>> marriage but the last five years they didn't even live together.
>>>
>>> Tom McGrath III
>>> Lazy River Software
>>> 3mcgrath at comcast.net
>>>
>>> iTunes Library Suite - libITS
>>> Information and download can be found on this page:
>>> http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From geradamas at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  2 11:49:55 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 08:49:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TT] When they ask, Who (or What) was this written by ?
Message-ID: <397378.82173.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

[TT] - Totally Tangential.

Speaking as a happily married person (just thinking about how that mucks 
up marriage statistics makes it even happier) both my wife and I would 
find it pretty tough to claim 100% authorship of anything; well, except in 
those arguments where she says that one of our sons is 100% like me :)

As a person who doesn't feel to bad about plundering code (as well as 
shoving a lot of mine around for others to plunder) I can honestly say 
that my maximum input on anyone project is about 75%; even if the other 
25% consisted of supplying hot drinks, keeping the kids out of the way, 
cooking meals, cleaning the house - I would have been hard-put to complete 
a lot of work without that support.

So, whether Albert Einstein's wives were quiet geniuses spoon-feeding 
"stupid Bert", or whether they were "just" his support crew doesn't really 
matter: their contribution should be acknowledged.

Skaespeare ripped-off everything, left, right, and centre: it is what he 
did with the material he gathered that constitutes genius.

Of course there are Shakespearian 'scholars' (and those single quotes are 
meant to signify that they are a fairly worthless crowd) who worry about 
whether that wonderful turn of phrasing in Richard II's soliliquoy is 100% 
Shakespeare, or whether the first adjective was thought up by another 
lurking genius: does it matter? Not one wit: "The play's the thing!"

"And so to a little coding" . . . to misquote that unsung hero of 
software development, Mr Samuel Pepys.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From mikeythek at gmail.com  Tue Dec  2 12:07:02 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 12:07:02 -0500
Subject: [TT] When they ask, Who (or What) was this written by ?
In-Reply-To: <397378.82173.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <397378.82173.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812020907v2b5b7deqc32e6aa775c77838@mail.gmail.com>

I can't believe you didn't mention that Freud, when he wasn't high,
was doing nothing if not ripping off Shakespeare.  Where does THAT
take us?


From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Dec  2 13:28:45 2008
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 12:28:45 -0600
Subject: OT: Edu Users Interested in Art/3D Art and Rev
In-Reply-To: <314A8E00EB8B4FE19BFD8EA3B4178A14@GATEWAY>
References: <314A8E00EB8B4FE19BFD8EA3B4178A14@GATEWAY>
Message-ID: <665591460812021028y15c0ea0fi7529d8686969897e@mail.gmail.com>

Congrats, Lynn.

Look forward to hearing more when the time comes.

best,
Chipp


From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Tue Dec  2 13:37:12 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:37:12 -0800
Subject: OT: Edu Users Interested in Art/3D Art and Rev
In-Reply-To: <314A8E00EB8B4FE19BFD8EA3B4178A14@GATEWAY>
References: <314A8E00EB8B4FE19BFD8EA3B4178A14@GATEWAY>
Message-ID: <4be051070812021037q1d1d9811t8843b5d5718341df@mail.gmail.com>

I'm interested!
Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 8:30 AM, Lynn Fredricks <
lfredricks at proactive-intl.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Without going into great NDA busting detail, Mirye has picked up exclusive,
> worldwide rights to a 3D software product (Windows and Mac, both) which
> should be announced in time for MacWorld. Though Rev has little to do with
> 3D, Rev is a superior multimedia system for content aggregation.
>
> We've been getting Rev out through academic friendly sales channels, like
> Programmer's Paradise, Academic Superstore and even a small presence on
> Amazon. However Im exploring the content side of academic promotion,
> especially in context to Rev + Content (graphics, video, audio) since that
> seems to be a stronger emphasis in multimedia education now in K-12
> (podcasting, video production, interactive web, etc) than programming as a
> "standalone" topic.
>
> Id like to assess interest for this in the Rev community and who all might
> be interested in a special interest group. Unfortunately I don't have any
> body parts to trade, but I may have a spare piece of Malte left after his
> big giveaway ;-)
>
> Best regards,
>
> Lynn Fredricks
> Mirye Software Publishing
> http://www.mirye.com
>
> Mirye Community NING
> http://miryesoftware.ning.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From h at FlexibleLearning.com  Tue Dec  2 13:38:51 2008
From: h at FlexibleLearning.com (Hugh Senior)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 18:38:51 -0000
Subject: "01/01/1969" is a date = true on Mac but not on Windows?
In-Reply-To: <20081202180004.992B348A431@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONGEGHCBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>

Hi Klaus,

There is a set of routines in the Scripter's Scrapbook (called julianDates)
originally posted by Joel Guillod back in 2004 that manipulates dates using
Julian date system which (largely) removes any arbitrary cutoff date. I say
'Largely' only because it won't handle dates earlier than 4713BC. The
front-end application of the functions supplied is very straightforward. It
means you can correctly handle virtually any date you want.

/H


>Any hints on how to verify these dates on windows without too much
>effort?



From viktoras at ekoinf.net  Tue Dec  2 14:28:46 2008
From: viktoras at ekoinf.net (viktoras didziulis)
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 21:28:46 +0200
Subject: [TT] When they ask, Who (or What) was this written by ?
In-Reply-To: <397378.82173.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <397378.82173.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49358C6E.3040801@ekoinf.net>

some say that Shakespeare should share his genius with Sir Francis 
Bacon, so may be not a "standalone" genius at all. Who knows...

best regards
Viktoras

Richmond Mathewson wrote:
> [TT] - Totally Tangential.
>
> Speaking as a happily married person (just thinking about how that mucks 
> up marriage statistics makes it even happier) both my wife and I would 
> find it pretty tough to claim 100% authorship of anything; well, except in 
> those arguments where she says that one of our sons is 100% like me :)
>
> As a person who doesn't feel to bad about plundering code (as well as 
> shoving a lot of mine around for others to plunder) I can honestly say 
> that my maximum input on anyone project is about 75%; even if the other 
> 25% consisted of supplying hot drinks, keeping the kids out of the way, 
> cooking meals, cleaning the house - I would have been hard-put to complete 
> a lot of work without that support.
>
> So, whether Albert Einstein's wives were quiet geniuses spoon-feeding 
> "stupid Bert", or whether they were "just" his support crew doesn't really 
> matter: their contribution should be acknowledged.
>
> Skaespeare ripped-off everything, left, right, and centre: it is what he 
> did with the material he gathered that constitutes genius.
>
> Of course there are Shakespearian 'scholars' (and those single quotes are 
> meant to signify that they are a fairly worthless crowd) who worry about 
> whether that wonderful turn of phrasing in Richard II's soliliquoy is 100% 
> Shakespeare, or whether the first adjective was thought up by another 
> lurking genius: does it matter? Not one wit: "The play's the thing!"
>
> "And so to a little coding" . . . to misquote that unsung hero of 
> software development, Mr Samuel Pepys.
>
> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
> ____________________________________________________________
>
>
>       
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>   



From toolbook at kestner.de  Tue Dec  2 14:53:40 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:53:40 +0100
Subject: why doesn't revZipCloseArchive close the archive?
Message-ID: <311621DA7D6D421F8A9B59654711A259@Kestner.local>

Hello,

I have a zip file which I am extracting with:

revZipOpenArchive tArchiv, read

revZipExtractItemToFile tArchiv, tItem, tFile

revZipCloseArchive tArchive

very standard and that works fine, beside I can't delete the zip file after
having extracted all items with delete URL. The result tells me "can't
delete file".

The result of ZipOpen and ZipExtract are empty, but the result of ZipClose
tells me "ziperr,archive not open" Why? After quitting the Rev IDE I can
delete the zip file manually. What am I missing, or is there any other
option to force to close a file so, that I can delete it from Rev?

Thanks for any hints

Tiemo

 

 

 



From bobs at twft.com  Tue Dec  2 15:30:06 2008
From: bobs at twft.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 12:30:06 -0800
Subject: "01/01/1969" is a date = true on Mac but not on Windows?
In-Reply-To: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONGEGHCBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>
References: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONGEGHCBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>
Message-ID: <B8F590B6-53D8-463F-8F85-14CE4974F174@twft.com>

Methinks someone at Runrev Limited should consider this method in lieu  
of their present method for determining ANYTHING about dates.  
Spreadsheets use Julian dates behind the scenes precisely because you  
cannot always depend on an OS to give you consistent results for date  
calculations.

Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM

On Dec 2, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Hugh Senior wrote:

> Hi Klaus,
>
> There is a set of routines in the Scripter's Scrapbook (called  
> julianDates)
> originally posted by Joel Guillod back in 2004 that manipulates  
> dates using
> Julian date system which (largely) removes any arbitrary cutoff  
> date. I say
> 'Largely' only because it won't handle dates earlier than 4713BC. The
> front-end application of the functions supplied is very  
> straightforward. It
> means you can correctly handle virtually any date you want.
>
> /H
>
>
>> Any hints on how to verify these dates on windows without too much
>> effort?
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From lyn.teyla at gmail.com  Tue Dec  2 21:45:58 2008
From: lyn.teyla at gmail.com (Lyn Teyla)
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 21:45:58 -0500
Subject: why doesn't revZipCloseArchive close the archive?
Message-ID: <E1L7hkU-0002DB-Pp@tiger.speednoc.com>

Tiemo wrote:

> The result of ZipOpen and ZipExtract are empty, but the
> result of ZipClose
> tells me "ziperr,archive not open" Why? After quitting the
> Rev IDE I can
> delete the zip file manually. What am I missing, or is
> there any other
> option to force to close a file so, that I can delete it
> from Rev?

If the code is exactly as you had posted, then
your revZipCloseArchive statement has a typo
(tArchive instead of tArchiv).

Lyn



From toolbook at kestner.de  Wed Dec  3 02:19:54 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 08:19:54 +0100
Subject: AW: why doesn't revZipCloseArchive close the archive?
In-Reply-To: <E1L7hkU-0002DB-Pp@tiger.speednoc.com>
Message-ID: <90CF66FB9CFA41F191E953CAD6594DBD@Kestner.local>


Yes, thousand times read, but not seen.
Thank you Lyn
Tiemo

> 
> If the code is exactly as you had posted, then
> your revZipCloseArchive statement has a typo
> (tArchive instead of tArchiv).
> 
> Lyn
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From gwolfgang at gaich.de  Wed Dec  3 05:12:15 2008
From: gwolfgang at gaich.de (G. Wolfgang Gaich)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 11:12:15 +0100
Subject: 01/01/1969" is a date = true on Mac but not on Windows?
In-Reply-To: <20081202180004.F418348A43B@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20081202180004.F418348A43B@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <49365B7F.4010508@gaich.de>

Hi Klaus,

what's about 

put "result = IsDate(" & quote & "01/01/1969" & quote & ")" into tvb
do tvb as vbscript
put the result



best

G.Wolfgang Gaich
>
> the subject says it all :-/
> Please tell me that I am overlooking something obvious!!!!
>
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> http://www.major-k.de
>   



From toolbook at kestner.de  Wed Dec  3 05:50:12 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 11:50:12 +0100
Subject: How to update a XMLNode?
Message-ID: <86AC2E37EAE14D02804756A50ABDDB94@Kestner.local>

Hello,

How do you update a XMLNode? I don't find a "revUpdateXMLNode"

Is the only way to update a XML Node with deleting and adding it?

If I can delete a Node, why can't I update a Node?

Thank you

Tiemo

 

 

 



From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Dec  3 05:54:16 2008
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 11:54:16 +0100
Subject: 01/01/1969" is a date = true on Mac but not on Windows?
In-Reply-To: <49365B7F.4010508@gaich.de>
References: <20081202180004.F418348A43B@mail.runrev.com>
	<49365B7F.4010508@gaich.de>
Message-ID: <F88935F2-70D0-4EE5-9AF6-17F40FD0A6A9@major-k.de>

Hi Wolfgang,

> Hi Klaus,
>
> what's about
> put "result = IsDate(" & quote & "01/01/1969" & quote & ")" into tvb
> do tvb as vbscript
> put the result

WOW! This is absolutely fantastic, thanks a lot! :-)

Looks like this works for english and also german dates.
I tested all these variations and got "true":

01/01/1969
31/01/1969
31-01-1969
31.01.1969
31.01.69
01/01/69
31/01/69
31-01-69
01/31/1969
31.1.69

Waaaaay cool!

> best
>
> G.Wolfgang Gaich

Best from germany to germany :-)

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de




From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  3 07:28:03 2008
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 04:28:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to update a XMLNode?
In-Reply-To: <86AC2E37EAE14D02804756A50ABDDB94@Kestner.local>
Message-ID: <211887.24854.qm@web65410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

--- Tiemo Hollmann TB <toolbook at kestner.de> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> How do you update a XMLNode? I don't find a
> "revUpdateXMLNode"
> 
> Is the only way to update a XML Node with deleting
> and adding it?
> 
> If I can delete a Node, why can't I update a Node?
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Tiemo
> 

How about the 'revPutIntoXMLNode' command?

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam Reports & PDF Library for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


      


From toolbook at kestner.de  Wed Dec  3 07:54:09 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:54:09 +0100
Subject: AW: How to update a XMLNode?
In-Reply-To: <211887.24854.qm@web65410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C71D8D81BD8F497CA99A9FD947467ABB@Kestner.local>

Arggh, to be too fixed :)
Thank you
Tiemo

> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-
> bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Jan Schenkel
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Dezember 2008 13:28
> An: How to use Revolution
> Betreff: Re: How to update a XMLNode?
> 
> --- Tiemo Hollmann TB <toolbook at kestner.de> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > How do you update a XMLNode? I don't find a
> > "revUpdateXMLNode"
> >
> > Is the only way to update a XML Node with deleting
> > and adding it?
> >
> > If I can delete a Node, why can't I update a Node?
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Tiemo
> >
> 
> How about the 'revPutIntoXMLNode' command?
> 
> Jan Schenkel.
> 
> Quartam Reports & PDF Library for Revolution
> <http://www.quartam.com>
> 
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."
> (La Rochefoucauld)
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Wed Dec  3 11:09:07 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 08:09:07 -0800
Subject: 01/01/1969" is a date = true on Mac but not on Windows?
In-Reply-To: <F88935F2-70D0-4EE5-9AF6-17F40FD0A6A9@major-k.de>
References: <20081202180004.F418348A43B@mail.runrev.com>
	<49365B7F.4010508@gaich.de>
	<F88935F2-70D0-4EE5-9AF6-17F40FD0A6A9@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <p06240802c55c5f4fa699@[192.168.1.105]>

Kind of sad that one has to go through VBScript to accomplish this. 
This should be trivial for Rev.



>WOW! This is absolutely fantastic, thanks a lot! :-)
>
>Looks like this works for english and also german dates.
>I tested all these variations and got "true":
>
>01/01/1969
>31/01/1969
>31-01-1969
>31.01.1969
>31.01.69
>01/01/69
>31/01/69
>31-01-69
>01/31/1969
>31.1.69
>
>Waaaaay cool!
>
>>best
>>
>>G.Wolfgang Gaich


-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -





From jim at oyfconsulting.com  Wed Dec  3 12:25:50 2008
From: jim at oyfconsulting.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 13:25:50 -0400
Subject: OT:  Creating a PC Compatible DVD...
In-Reply-To: <466873.50912.qm@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <466873.50912.qm@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8B4A727A-FC85-4E00-BAFF-C5DFCCF91D9B@oyfconsulting.com>

Hi Folks... I know there is a problem creating a PC-compatible DVD on  
the Mac.  The Mac creates a DVD-R MPEG2 file while the PC reads a DVD 
+R DVD.  Is there an elegant solution to this with some magic piece of  
software or am I relegated to about a six step workaround every time I  
want to do this?  I can't find anything searching the archives.

Thanks...

Jim Carwardine,
President & CEO
OYF Consulting
Ph. 902.823.2339 / 866.601.2339
Fx. 902.823-2139
<www.StrategicDoing.com>
StrategicDoing?: When Strategic Planning is finished,
execution of your plan depends on your employees.
Strategic Partner with HiringSmart Inc.
-- 








From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Wed Dec  3 13:23:05 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 10:23:05 -0800
Subject: OT:  Creating a PC Compatible DVD...
In-Reply-To: <8B4A727A-FC85-4E00-BAFF-C5DFCCF91D9B@oyfconsulting.com>
References: <466873.50912.qm@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<8B4A727A-FC85-4E00-BAFF-C5DFCCF91D9B@oyfconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <p06240803c55c7bc4521e@[192.168.1.105]>

Buy a drive that records DVD+R if you must. But this is totally 
moot. Yours is not a PC/MAC issue, but a choice of blank disc formats 
and/or video formatting. Both disc types will play on any platform.
Why not just buy quality DVD-R blanks that the mac optical drive is 
designed for. The +/- is usually only a factor on the record side. 
Also the + discs seem to be losing market share.

The FORMAT of the DATA is the other factor. Usually burning programs 
make a PC/MAC compatible video or data disc.  Making a video disc 
that plays everywhere is handled by video burning software like DVD 
studio pro or iDVD, even Toast.

Also not all players are alike. Use software that targets your output 
needs. Often there are shareware or open source solutions like VLC 
that play anything.

http://www.videolan.org/vlc/






>Hi Folks... I know there is a problem creating a PC-compatible DVD 
>on the Mac.  The Mac creates a DVD-R MPEG2 file while the PC reads a 
>DVD+R DVD.  Is there an elegant solution to this with some magic 
>piece of software or am I relegated to about a six step workaround 
>every time I want to do this?  I can't find anything searching the 
>archives.
>
>Thanks...
>
>Jim Carwardine,

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -





From jim at oyfconsulting.com  Wed Dec  3 13:49:19 2008
From: jim at oyfconsulting.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:49:19 -0400
Subject: OT:  Creating a PC Compatible DVD...
In-Reply-To: <p06240803c55c7bc4521e@[192.168.1.105]>
References: <466873.50912.qm@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<8B4A727A-FC85-4E00-BAFF-C5DFCCF91D9B@oyfconsulting.com>
	<p06240803c55c7bc4521e@[192.168.1.105]>
Message-ID: <D758BCBF-FE90-4811-A395-26B32736FC66@oyfconsulting.com>

Thanks, Stephen... I'm using Panasonic DVD-R blanks and they didn't  
work in XP in Parallels.  A good brand might be any of the more  
expensive brands?  So, if I use an expensive DVD-R with iDVD, instead  
of Disk Utility) I will likely get a PC compatible DVD?  I can't  
target my audience other than to say they might not be using Vista...  
Jim

On 3-Dec-08, at 2:23 PM, Stephen Barncard wrote:

> Buy a drive that records DVD+R if you must. But this is totally  
> moot. Yours is not a PC/MAC issue, but a choice of blank disc  
> formats and/or video formatting. Both disc types will play on any  
> platform.
> Why not just buy quality DVD-R blanks that the mac optical drive is  
> designed for. The +/- is usually only a factor on the record side.  
> Also the + discs seem to be losing market share.
>
> The FORMAT of the DATA is the other factor. Usually burning programs  
> make a PC/MAC compatible video or data disc.  Making a video disc  
> that plays everywhere is handled by video burning software like DVD  
> studio pro or iDVD, even Toast.
>
> Also not all players are alike. Use software that targets your  
> output needs. Often there are shareware or open source solutions  
> like VLC that play anything.
>
> http://www.videolan.org/vlc/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> Hi Folks... I know there is a problem creating a PC-compatible DVD  
>> on the Mac.  The Mac creates a DVD-R MPEG2 file while the PC reads  
>> a DVD+R DVD.  Is there an elegant solution to this with some magic  
>> piece of software or am I relegated to about a six step workaround  
>> every time I want to do this?  I can't find anything searching the  
>> archives.
>>
>> Thanks...
>>
>> Jim Carwardine,
>
> -- 
>
>
> stephen barncard
> s a n  f r a n c i s c o
> - - -  - - - - - - - - -
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


Jim Carwardine,
President & CEO
OYF Consulting
Ph. 902.823.2339 / 866.601.2339
Fx. 902.823-2139
<www.StrategicDoing.com>
StrategicDoing?: When Strategic Planning is finished,
execution of your plan depends on your employees.
Strategic Partner with HiringSmart Inc.
-- 








From dam-pro.girard at laposte.net  Wed Dec  3 13:49:41 2008
From: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net (GIRARD Damien)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 19:49:41 +0100
Subject: External Creation. Obtains the Window Handler on Windows.
Message-ID: <4936D4C5.7080502@laposte.net>

Hi all,

I am playing with externals, and I want to try to add GUI features to Rev.
I know how to write externals to interface libraries with Rev, but 
working on the GUI of Rev, I do not know anything at all for now.

What I want to do is to retrieve the Window handler (on Windows) in 
order to add Windows Vista Aero effects.
I read few articles that talks about how to use DWM of Vista, and the 
only things that it requires is a Window handler (HWND) in
order to apply the glass effect.

So, does anyone knows how to retrieve the HWND of a Revolution Window on 
Windows ?

Regards,

Damien


From andre at andregarzia.com  Wed Dec  3 14:03:41 2008
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 17:03:41 -0200
Subject: External Creation. Obtains the Window Handler on Windows.
In-Reply-To: <4936D4C5.7080502@laposte.net>
References: <4936D4C5.7080502@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <7c87a2a10812031103w6f2ae766s578c15bc006afae9@mail.gmail.com>

Damien,

check the windowID property of a revolution window. I think that on
windows it returns the Window handle.

Andre

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 4:49 PM, GIRARD Damien
<dam-pro.girard at laposte.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am playing with externals, and I want to try to add GUI features to Rev.
> I know how to write externals to interface libraries with Rev, but working
> on the GUI of Rev, I do not know anything at all for now.
>
> What I want to do is to retrieve the Window handler (on Windows) in order to
> add Windows Vista Aero effects.
> I read few articles that talks about how to use DWM of Vista, and the only
> things that it requires is a Window handler (HWND) in
> order to apply the glass effect.
>
> So, does anyone knows how to retrieve the HWND of a Revolution Window on
> Windows ?
>
> Regards,
>
> Damien
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  3 14:38:53 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 11:38:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Town Planning for 7-9 year old EFL pupils.
Message-ID: <645748.97523.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Just uploaded a graphic-intensive stack (3.4 MB) to revOnline:

"LOCATION.rev" - find it under 'Richmond'

This is the seed of a stack I have developed for some of the EFL
children I teach who are having quite some difficulty wrapping their
brains round OPPOSITE, NEXT TO, BEHIND, ON THE RIGHT, ON THE LEFT,
ON THE CORNER, and so on.

Have bombarded them with toy houses and so on: eyes glaze over fairly
quickly. Plonk the "little darlings" in front of the Ubuntu boxes,
and 'WHAM' they feel empowered, and, more importantly, the learn
the terms and how to use them. Sitting near them while they work at 
the computers one can even hear them sub-vocalising the vocabulary!

Anybody who wants to use and/or adapt what I have uploaded is more than welcome.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  3 14:49:06 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 11:49:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: OT: Creating a PC Compatible DVD...
Message-ID: <536640.5195.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I flung out the original Apple DVD drive from my G4 a few years ago (well it is 'enjoying' a second life in Razgrad, North Bulgaria in a COMPAQ Pentium 3 running Ubuntu) and replaced it with a TSSTcorp CD/DVDW that writes LightScribe CDs and DVDs - and I only use Hewlett Packard Lightscribe DVDs. These are a little bit more expensive than other optical materials, but they seem to be readable everywhere (Windows, Debian, Mac, RISC) and I can efficiently label the other sides of the discs.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From jim at oyfconsulting.com  Wed Dec  3 14:49:08 2008
From: jim at oyfconsulting.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:49:08 -0400
Subject: Town Planning for 7-9 year old EFL pupils.
In-Reply-To: <645748.97523.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <645748.97523.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <EFACEF54-9A3D-4E2D-BF8B-7C8AC9D986BB@oyfconsulting.com>

Richmond... Can you be more specific... I've never looked here  
before... Jim

On 3-Dec-08, at 3:38 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> Just uploaded a graphic-intensive stack (3.4 MB) to revOnline:
>
> "LOCATION.rev" - find it under 'Richmond'


Jim Carwardine,
President & CEO
OYF Consulting
Ph. 902.823.2339 / 866.601.2339
Fx. 902.823-2139
<www.StrategicDoing.com>
StrategicDoing?: When Strategic Planning is finished,
execution of your plan depends on your employees.
Strategic Partner with HiringSmart Inc.
-- 








From geradamas at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  3 14:57:32 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 11:57:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Town Planning for 7-9 year old EFL pupils.
Message-ID: <213778.5870.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Jim Carwardine wrote:

"Can you be more specific... I've never looked here  
before... Jim"

By 'here' do you mean 'revOnline' ?

Start up your copy of Runtime Revolution, look under the
'Development' menu item and click on 'Revolution Online' and,
assuming that computer has internet access, you will be
magically taken to Runtime Revolution's repository of
user-authored stacks.

revOnline is a bit like the Use-List; good in parts; however
a bit of 'digging' can be rewarding in terms of finding solutions to
common problems and starting points for projects.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Wed Dec  3 14:58:06 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 11:58:06 -0800
Subject: OT:  Creating a PC Compatible DVD...
In-Reply-To: <D758BCBF-FE90-4811-A395-26B32736FC66@oyfconsulting.com>
References: <466873.50912.qm@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<8B4A727A-FC85-4E00-BAFF-C5DFCCF91D9B@oyfconsulting.com>
	<p06240803c55c7bc4521e@[192.168.1.105]>
	<D758BCBF-FE90-4811-A395-26B32736FC66@oyfconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <p06240805c55c945c15d3@[192.168.1.105]>

You didn't mention the parallels part, nor what it is you are trying 
to make, not to mention operating from the windows side. Several 
levels of complication here.
"Didn't work in XP in Parallels" means that either windows,Parallels 
or whatever app you are using in windows  lacks drivers or knowledge 
of your internal drive. Welcome to the PC world.

If it's video, can't you just make the thing on the Mac side?



>Thanks, Stephen... I'm using Panasonic DVD-R blanks and they didn't 
>work in XP in Parallels.  A good brand might be any of the more 
>expensive brands?  So, if I use an expensive DVD-R with iDVD, 
>instead of Disk Utility) I will likely get a PC compatible DVD?  I 
>can't target my audience other than to say they might not be using 
>Vista... Jim

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -





From devin_asay at byu.edu  Wed Dec  3 15:10:09 2008
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:10:09 -0700
Subject: DOS window and shell function
Message-ID: <619EC83B-1AD3-4187-BA07-476DDA6BCFE8@byu.edu>

I'm doing a project in which I need to call a DOS shell script. It all  
works great, but the DOS terminal window briefly appears and  
disappears. This doesn't happen in OS X--the shell script just  
executes silently. Does anyone know if there is a way to get rid of  
the annoying DOS terminal window flash? (Win XP, Rev 3.0)

Thanks,

Devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University



From dam-pro.girard at laposte.net  Wed Dec  3 15:19:10 2008
From: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net (GIRARD Damien)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:19:10 +0100
Subject: External Creation. Obtains the Window Handler on Windows.
In-Reply-To: <7c87a2a10812031103w6f2ae766s578c15bc006afae9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4936D4C5.7080502@laposte.net>
	<7c87a2a10812031103w6f2ae766s578c15bc006afae9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4936E9BE.5040700@laposte.net>

Andre,

Thanks, that's working, I have my HWND and I can work on the window.

But, I am not able to have the glass effect working now in a Rev Window, 
the engine display a white background on locations
that must be transparent.

I continue to search.

Damien

Andre Garzia a ?crit :
> Damien,
>
> check the windowID property of a revolution window. I think that on
> windows it returns the Window handle.
>
> Andre
>
> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 4:49 PM, GIRARD Damien
> <dam-pro.girard at laposte.net> wrote:
>   
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am playing with externals, and I want to try to add GUI features to Rev.
>> I know how to write externals to interface libraries with Rev, but working
>> on the GUI of Rev, I do not know anything at all for now.
>>
>> What I want to do is to retrieve the Window handler (on Windows) in order to
>> add Windows Vista Aero effects.
>> I read few articles that talks about how to use DWM of Vista, and the only
>> things that it requires is a Window handler (HWND) in
>> order to apply the glass effect.
>>
>> So, does anyone knows how to retrieve the HWND of a Revolution Window on
>> Windows ?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Damien
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>   



From cmsheffield at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 15:20:30 2008
From: cmsheffield at gmail.com (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:20:30 -0700
Subject: DOS window and shell function
In-Reply-To: <619EC83B-1AD3-4187-BA07-476DDA6BCFE8@byu.edu>
References: <619EC83B-1AD3-4187-BA07-476DDA6BCFE8@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <00BDFCDB-A603-4AD8-AE3E-9CDEE7194948@gmail.com>

Set the hideConsoleWindows to true. :-)

Chris

On Dec 3, 2008, at 1:10 PM, Devin Asay wrote:

> I'm doing a project in which I need to call a DOS shell script. It  
> all works great, but the DOS terminal window briefly appears and  
> disappears. This doesn't happen in OS X--the shell script just  
> executes silently. Does anyone know if there is a way to get rid of  
> the annoying DOS terminal window flash? (Win XP, Rev 3.0)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Devin
>
> Devin Asay
> Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
> Brigham Young University
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

--
Chris Sheffield
Read Naturally, Inc.
www.readnaturally.com



From jim at oyfconsulting.com  Wed Dec  3 15:23:07 2008
From: jim at oyfconsulting.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:23:07 -0400
Subject: OT:  Creating a PC Compatible DVD...
In-Reply-To: <p06240805c55c945c15d3@[192.168.1.105]>
References: <466873.50912.qm@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<8B4A727A-FC85-4E00-BAFF-C5DFCCF91D9B@oyfconsulting.com>
	<p06240803c55c7bc4521e@[192.168.1.105]>
	<D758BCBF-FE90-4811-A395-26B32736FC66@oyfconsulting.com>
	<p06240805c55c945c15d3@[192.168.1.105]>
Message-ID: <EF63AD71-2DA0-43D2-9EB7-885D18C16E8A@oyfconsulting.com>

Well... I guess I scared myself when it wouldn't work in Parallels...  
I have a DVD that was already burned on a PC that I want to dupe.  I  
have an Intel MacBook running 10.5.5 on which I duped the DVD using  
Disk Utility.

I tried the new DVDs in Parallels running XP to see if they would read  
and they didn't.  When I looked on the Internet I found the issues  
around DVD-R vs DVD+R as well as the issues around MPEG2 not being  
readable on most PCs.  I didn't find much consensus on a Mac solution...

I assumed, correctly or not, that if the DVDs did not work on  
Parallels then in all likelihood they would not work on any PC.  I'm  
preparing to send the duped DVDs to a prospective client who is  
located in another city and I don't want them to call me to say they  
couldn't read the DVDs...

Of course the easy way is to take them downtown and have a service  
dupe the original but I want to do it on my Mac, to prove a point if  
nothing else...

On 3-Dec-08, at 3:58 PM, Stephen Barncard wrote:

> You didn't mention the parallels part, nor what it is you are trying  
> to make, not to mention operating from the windows side. Several  
> levels of complication here.
> "Didn't work in XP in Parallels" means that either windows,Parallels  
> or whatever app you are using in windows  lacks drivers or knowledge  
> of your internal drive. Welcome to the PC world.
>
> If it's video, can't you just make the thing on the Mac side?
>
>
>
>> Thanks, Stephen... I'm using Panasonic DVD-R blanks and they didn't  
>> work in XP in Parallels.  A good brand might be any of the more  
>> expensive brands?  So, if I use an expensive DVD-R with iDVD,  
>> instead of Disk Utility) I will likely get a PC compatible DVD?  I  
>> can't target my audience other than to say they might not be using  
>> Vista... Jim
>
> -- 
>
>
> stephen barncard
> s a n  f r a n c i s c o
> - - -  - - - - - - - - -
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


Jim Carwardine,
President & CEO
OYF Consulting
Ph. 902.823.2339 / 866.601.2339
Fx. 902.823-2139
<www.StrategicDoing.com>
StrategicDoing?: When Strategic Planning is finished,
execution of your plan depends on your employees.
Strategic Partner with HiringSmart Inc.
-- 








From devin_asay at byu.edu  Wed Dec  3 15:25:06 2008
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:25:06 -0700
Subject: DOS window and shell function
In-Reply-To: <619EC83B-1AD3-4187-BA07-476DDA6BCFE8@byu.edu>
References: <619EC83B-1AD3-4187-BA07-476DDA6BCFE8@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <3794490B-C0B2-47F6-A58D-5BECAB8A8E32@byu.edu>


On Dec 3, 2008, at 1:10 PM, Devin Asay wrote:

> I'm doing a project in which I need to call a DOS shell script. It all
> works great, but the DOS terminal window briefly appears and
> disappears. This doesn't happen in OS X--the shell script just
> executes silently. Does anyone know if there is a way to get rid of
> the annoying DOS terminal window flash? (Win XP, Rev 3.0)

That's a very good question, Devin. If you'd just read your freaking  
dictionary you would see that all you have to do is:

set the hideConsoleWindows to true

Some people! Please return to your own competent lives.

Regards.

Devin


Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University



From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Wed Dec  3 15:31:30 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 12:31:30 -0800
Subject: OT:  Creating a PC Compatible DVD...
In-Reply-To: <EF63AD71-2DA0-43D2-9EB7-885D18C16E8A@oyfconsulting.com>
References: <466873.50912.qm@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<8B4A727A-FC85-4E00-BAFF-C5DFCCF91D9B@oyfconsulting.com>
	<p06240803c55c7bc4521e@[192.168.1.105]>
	<D758BCBF-FE90-4811-A395-26B32736FC66@oyfconsulting.com>
	<p06240805c55c945c15d3@[192.168.1.105]>
	<EF63AD71-2DA0-43D2-9EB7-885D18C16E8A@oyfconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <p06240806c55c9c36ece9@[192.168.1.105]>

Don't just throw a MPEG2 file in a folder and burn; you need to set 
it up to be a DVD-video disk,  then it will play anywhere, especially 
on component DVD systems. If you can make one that plays on a 
standard DVD video player, it should play on computers.

Toast and Dragon Burn have been able to do this for years.

Free software that can do the same
http://burn-osx.sourceforge.net/




>Well... I guess I scared myself when it wouldn't work in 
>Parallels... I have a DVD that was already burned on a PC that I 
>want to dupe.  I have an Intel MacBook running 10.5.5 on which I 
>duped the DVD using Disk Utility.
>
>I tried the new DVDs in Parallels running XP to see if they would 
>read and they didn't.  When I looked on the Internet I found the 
>issues around DVD-R vs DVD+R as well as the issues around MPEG2 not 
>being readable on most PCs.  I didn't find much consensus on a Mac 
>solution...
>
>I assumed, correctly or not, that if the DVDs did not work on 
>Parallels then in all likelihood they would not work on any PC.  I'm 
>preparing to send the duped DVDs to a prospective client who is 
>located in another city and I don't want them to call me to say they 
>couldn't read the DVDs...
>
>Of course the easy way is to take them downtown and have a service 
>dupe the original but I want to do it on my Mac, to prove a point if 
>nothing else...
>

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -





From dam-pro.girard at laposte.net  Wed Dec  3 15:42:30 2008
From: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net (GIRARD Damien)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:42:30 +0100
Subject: Rev on Vista - External Project
Message-ID: <4936EF36.4090805@laposte.net>

Hi all,

I announce that I start to write an externals that will brings enhanced 
features of Vista to Revolution.
I hope that I will be able to achieve it. Of course it will be 
open-source (BSD license) and I will host it on Sourceforge. (If it work).

Currently, I have a Transparent Blurry Window :) (I am so happy to just 
have it that I have to tell it to the list :D )
http://www.dam-pro.com/devel/Vista_Rev/Screenshot1.png

This begins really excite me, I will continue to search in order to have 
an usable beautiful glass window ^^.

Damien


From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Wed Dec  3 16:05:37 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:05:37 -0500
Subject: Image problem or snapshot
Message-ID: <0757D516-C31F-4863-B283-30C91088EAAA@mac.com>

Has anyone else had a problem with either the imageData or snapshot  
capabilities in RR3.0?

I am trying to run this script:

I have one grc with a fill , one image object and one field.

on mouseUp pMouseBtnNo
     export snapshot from grc "Fill 1" to grcVar
     set the imagedata of image "TEST" to grcVar
     set the imagesource of char 1 of line 1 of field "Sample" to  
image "TEST"
end mouseUp




Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html







From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Wed Dec  3 16:13:07 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:13:07 -0500
Subject: OT:  Creating a PC Compatible DVD...
In-Reply-To: <EF63AD71-2DA0-43D2-9EB7-885D18C16E8A@oyfconsulting.com>
References: <466873.50912.qm@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<8B4A727A-FC85-4E00-BAFF-C5DFCCF91D9B@oyfconsulting.com>
	<p06240803c55c7bc4521e@[192.168.1.105]>
	<D758BCBF-FE90-4811-A395-26B32736FC66@oyfconsulting.com>
	<p06240805c55c945c15d3@[192.168.1.105]>
	<EF63AD71-2DA0-43D2-9EB7-885D18C16E8A@oyfconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <AEABEA99-DCDC-4CF5-BE2A-A4AC791C08BA@mac.com>

Jim,

Don't assume that just cause it won't work on parallels that it won't  
work on a PC. Parallels is touchy. I have to put the disk in right at  
start up in order to get Parallels to recognize it.

I do burn DVDs on the Mac for PC usage so things should be just fine.  
Just make sure it is a full burn and not a rewritable.


Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html





On Dec 3, 2008, at 3:23 PM, Jim Carwardine wrote:

> Well... I guess I scared myself when it wouldn't work in  
> Parallels... I have a DVD that was already burned on a PC that I  
> want to dupe.  I have an Intel MacBook running 10.5.5 on which I  
> duped the DVD using Disk Utility.
>
> I tried the new DVDs in Parallels running XP to see if they would  
> read and they didn't.  When I looked on the Internet I found the  
> issues around DVD-R vs DVD+R as well as the issues around MPEG2 not  
> being readable on most PCs.  I didn't find much consensus on a Mac  
> solution...
>
> I assumed, correctly or not, that if the DVDs did not work on  
> Parallels then in all likelihood they would not work on any PC.  I'm  
> preparing to send the duped DVDs to a prospective client who is  
> located in another city and I don't want them to call me to say they  
> couldn't read the DVDs...
>
> Of course the easy way is to take them downtown and have a service  
> dupe the original but I want to do it on my Mac, to prove a point if  
> nothing else...
>
> On 3-Dec-08, at 3:58 PM, Stephen Barncard wrote:
>
>> You didn't mention the parallels part, nor what it is you are  
>> trying to make, not to mention operating from the windows side.  
>> Several levels of complication here.
>> "Didn't work in XP in Parallels" means that either  
>> windows,Parallels or whatever app you are using in windows  lacks  
>> drivers or knowledge of your internal drive. Welcome to the PC world.
>>
>> If it's video, can't you just make the thing on the Mac side?
>>
>>
>>
>>> Thanks, Stephen... I'm using Panasonic DVD-R blanks and they  
>>> didn't work in XP in Parallels.  A good brand might be any of the  
>>> more expensive brands?  So, if I use an expensive DVD-R with iDVD,  
>>> instead of Disk Utility) I will likely get a PC compatible DVD?  I  
>>> can't target my audience other than to say they might not be using  
>>> Vista... Jim
>>
>> -- 
>>
>>
>> stephen barncard
>> s a n  f r a n c i s c o
>> - - -  - - - - - - - - -
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
> Jim Carwardine,
> President & CEO
> OYF Consulting
> Ph. 902.823.2339 / 866.601.2339
> Fx. 902.823-2139
> <www.StrategicDoing.com>
> StrategicDoing?: When Strategic Planning is finished,
> execution of your plan depends on your employees.
> Strategic Partner with HiringSmart Inc.
> -- 
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Wed Dec  3 16:14:20 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:14:20 -0500
Subject: DOS window and shell function
In-Reply-To: <3794490B-C0B2-47F6-A58D-5BECAB8A8E32@byu.edu>
References: <619EC83B-1AD3-4187-BA07-476DDA6BCFE8@byu.edu>
	<3794490B-C0B2-47F6-A58D-5BECAB8A8E32@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <72055703-31F3-416E-AB4B-608E72327BED@mac.com>

Devin,

There is no reason to treat Devin so harshly!!! We need to show some  
compassion from time to time.


Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html


On Dec 3, 2008, at 3:25 PM, Devin Asay wrote:

>
> On Dec 3, 2008, at 1:10 PM, Devin Asay wrote:
>
>> I'm doing a project in which I need to call a DOS shell script. It  
>> all
>> works great, but the DOS terminal window briefly appears and
>> disappears. This doesn't happen in OS X--the shell script just
>> executes silently. Does anyone know if there is a way to get rid of
>> the annoying DOS terminal window flash? (Win XP, Rev 3.0)
>
> That's a very good question, Devin. If you'd just read your freaking  
> dictionary you would see that all you have to do is:
>
> set the hideConsoleWindows to true
>
> Some people! Please return to your own competent lives.
>
> Regards.
>
> Devin
>
>
> Devin Asay
> Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
> Brigham Young University
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Wed Dec  3 16:17:34 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 22:17:34 +0100
Subject: Image problem or snapshot
In-Reply-To: <0757D516-C31F-4863-B283-30C91088EAAA@mac.com>
References: <0757D516-C31F-4863-B283-30C91088EAAA@mac.com>
Message-ID: <FD86BD9F-3232-4666-834F-1AC0778789FD@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi Tom,

Yes, I am having exacty the same problem. My workaround is to export  
as PNG. The paint format doesn't work correctly.

on mouseUp pMouseBtnNo
    export snapshot from grc "Fill 1" to grcVar as PNG
    set the text of image "TEST" to grcVar
    set the imagesource of char 1 of line 1 of field "Sample" to image  
"TEST"
end mouseUp

(untested)

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

Color Converter has been updated! Get it at
http://colorconverter.economy-x-talk.com !

On 3 dec 2008, at 22:05, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Has anyone else had a problem with either the imageData or snapshot  
> capabilities in RR3.0?
>
> I am trying to run this script:
>
> I have one grc with a fill , one image object and one field.
>
> on mouseUp pMouseBtnNo
>    export snapshot from grc "Fill 1" to grcVar
>    set the imagedata of image "TEST" to grcVar
>    set the imagesource of char 1 of line 1 of field "Sample" to  
> image "TEST"
> end mouseUp
>
>
>
>
> Tom McGrath III
> Lazy River Software
> 3mcgrath at comcast.net
>
> iTunes Library Suite - libITS
> Information and download can be found on this page:
> http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html



From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Wed Dec  3 16:21:51 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:21:51 -0500
Subject: Image problem or snapshot
In-Reply-To: <FD86BD9F-3232-4666-834F-1AC0778789FD@economy-x-talk.com>
References: <0757D516-C31F-4863-B283-30C91088EAAA@mac.com>
	<FD86BD9F-3232-4666-834F-1AC0778789FD@economy-x-talk.com>
Message-ID: <F35E22D3-6446-4F37-8056-DFD39378D856@mac.com>

Mark,

Thanks that worked with just one correction:

> on mouseUp pMouseBtnNo
>   export snapshot from grc "Fill 1" to grcVar as PNG
>   set the text of image "TEST" to grcVar
>   set the imagesource of char 1 of line 1 of field "Sample" to the  
> id of image "TEST"
> end mouseUp


Thank you so much,

Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html


On Dec 3, 2008, at 4:17 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote:

> on mouseUp pMouseBtnNo
>   export snapshot from grc "Fill 1" to grcVar as PNG
>   set the text of image "TEST" to grcVar
>   set the imagesource of char 1 of line 1 of field "Sample" to image  
> "TEST"
> end mouseUp



From devin_asay at byu.edu  Wed Dec  3 16:26:32 2008
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 14:26:32 -0700
Subject: DOS window and shell function
In-Reply-To: <72055703-31F3-416E-AB4B-608E72327BED@mac.com>
References: <619EC83B-1AD3-4187-BA07-476DDA6BCFE8@byu.edu>
	<3794490B-C0B2-47F6-A58D-5BECAB8A8E32@byu.edu>
	<72055703-31F3-416E-AB4B-608E72327BED@mac.com>
Message-ID: <AC2828E8-FC62-43AA-A455-C4BE67653EA0@byu.edu>


On Dec 3, 2008, at 2:14 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Devin,
>
> There is no reason to treat Devin so harshly!!! We need to show some
> compassion from time to time.

But he's just so thick sometimes!

(BTW, he would like to thank Chris Sheffield, who just graciously give  
the answer without snide comments.) :-)

>
>
> On Dec 3, 2008, at 3:25 PM, Devin Asay wrote:
>
>>
>> On Dec 3, 2008, at 1:10 PM, Devin Asay wrote:
>>
>>> I'm doing a project in which I need to call a DOS shell script. It
>>> all
>>> works great, but the DOS terminal window briefly appears and
>>> disappears. This doesn't happen in OS X--the shell script just
>>> executes silently. Does anyone know if there is a way to get rid of
>>> the annoying DOS terminal window flash? (Win XP, Rev 3.0)
>>
>> That's a very good question, Devin. If you'd just read your freaking
>> dictionary you would see that all you have to do is:
>>
>> set the hideConsoleWindows to true
>>
>> Some people! Please return to your own competent lives.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> Devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University



From andre at andregarzia.com  Wed Dec  3 16:27:09 2008
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 19:27:09 -0200
Subject: External Creation. Obtains the Window Handler on Windows.
In-Reply-To: <4936E9BE.5040700@laposte.net>
References: <4936D4C5.7080502@laposte.net>
	<7c87a2a10812031103w6f2ae766s578c15bc006afae9@mail.gmail.com>
	<4936E9BE.5040700@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <7c87a2a10812031327r26cab179h8b04488dbae55c43@mail.gmail.com>

Damien,

I know nothing of windows programming, but if you're trying simple
transparency, you can use the windowshape with a PNG file with
different levels of alpha channel in it to give customizable
transparency in selected areas. I've seen Scott using this to such
marvelous effect that it still makes me smile.

Andre

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 6:19 PM, GIRARD Damien
<dam-pro.girard at laposte.net> wrote:
> Andre,
>
> Thanks, that's working, I have my HWND and I can work on the window.
>
> But, I am not able to have the glass effect working now in a Rev Window, the
> engine display a white background on locations
> that must be transparent.
>
> I continue to search.
>
> Damien
>
> Andre Garzia a ?crit :
>>
>> Damien,
>>
>> check the windowID property of a revolution window. I think that on
>> windows it returns the Window handle.
>>
>> Andre
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 4:49 PM, GIRARD Damien
>> <dam-pro.girard at laposte.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I am playing with externals, and I want to try to add GUI features to
>>> Rev.
>>> I know how to write externals to interface libraries with Rev, but
>>> working
>>> on the GUI of Rev, I do not know anything at all for now.
>>>
>>> What I want to do is to retrieve the Window handler (on Windows) in order
>>> to
>>> add Windows Vista Aero effects.
>>> I read few articles that talks about how to use DWM of Vista, and the
>>> only
>>> things that it requires is a Window handler (HWND) in
>>> order to apply the glass effect.
>>>
>>> So, does anyone knows how to retrieve the HWND of a Revolution Window on
>>> Windows ?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Damien
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription
>>> preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.


From nealk3nc at gmail.com  Wed Dec  3 16:41:35 2008
From: nealk3nc at gmail.com (Neal Campbell)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 16:41:35 -0500
Subject: Rev on Vista - External Project
In-Reply-To: <4936EF36.4090805@laposte.net>
References: <4936EF36.4090805@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <325413300812031341m777de984t3f64d606219d0acd@mail.gmail.com>

Truly beautiful (if anything on Vista can be!)

Keep up the good work,
Neal Campbell
Abroham Neal Software
Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux
(540) 242 0911
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Try Spot for OS X, the intelligent DXCluster Client at
www.abrohamnealsoftware.com -  $15.99
-------------------------------------------------
For a great dog book, visit www.abrohamneal.com
-------------------------------------------------
See the FlexRadio Systems Flex-5000a in
action at www.flex-videos.com




On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:42 PM, GIRARD Damien
<dam-pro.girard at laposte.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I announce that I start to write an externals that will brings enhanced
> features of Vista to Revolution.
> I hope that I will be able to achieve it. Of course it will be open-source
> (BSD license) and I will host it on Sourceforge. (If it work).
>
> Currently, I have a Transparent Blurry Window :) (I am so happy to just have
> it that I have to tell it to the list :D )
> http://www.dam-pro.com/devel/Vista_Rev/Screenshot1.png
>
> This begins really excite me, I will continue to search in order to have an
> usable beautiful glass window ^^.
>
> Damien
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Dec  3 16:52:12 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:52:12 -0600
Subject: DOS window and shell function
In-Reply-To: <72055703-31F3-416E-AB4B-608E72327BED@mac.com>
References: <619EC83B-1AD3-4187-BA07-476DDA6BCFE8@byu.edu>	<3794490B-C0B2-47F6-A58D-5BECAB8A8E32@byu.edu>
	<72055703-31F3-416E-AB4B-608E72327BED@mac.com>
Message-ID: <4936FF8C.7060808@hyperactivesw.com>

Thomas McGrath III wrote:
> Devin,
> 
> There is no reason to treat Devin so harshly!!! We need to show some 
> compassion from time to time.

On the other hand, I was relieved to see that I'm not the only one who 
talks to themselves.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From runrev at aboutmyfiles.com  Wed Dec  3 18:27:01 2008
From: runrev at aboutmyfiles.com (Mark E. Powell)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 23:27:01 +0000
Subject: launch URL with mailto yields inconsistent 'can't open file' error
Message-ID: <W4666915869121571228346821@webmail12>

Could use some wisdom and a Scotch on this one.

I am having problems with launch URL failing as the content string gets long.  In my tests, when the total mailto argument resolves to between 1645 and 1980 characters, the launch fails with 'can't open file'.  The character count varies, and no discernible pattern to anything that I can see.  Any ideas?  Is it an OS thing?

I am on Windows XP, Rev 2.9.0.

Mark





From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Wed Dec  3 18:32:13 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 00:32:13 +0100
Subject: launch URL with mailto yields inconsistent 'can't open file'
	error
In-Reply-To: <W4666915869121571228346821@webmail12>
References: <W4666915869121571228346821@webmail12>
Message-ID: <6B96E6F7-D1E7-4CE6-8F0E-C11F2E04F421@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi Mark,

Is it possible that your text contains diacritics? I have posted a bug  
about it to the QCC, but this concerns Mac OS X.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

Color Converter has been updated! Get it at
http://colorconverter.economy-x-talk.com !

On 4 dec 2008, at 00:27, Mark E. Powell wrote:

> Could use some wisdom and a Scotch on this one.
>
> I am having problems with launch URL failing as the content string  
> gets long.  In my tests, when the total mailto argument resolves to  
> between 1645 and 1980 characters, the launch fails with 'can't open  
> file'.  The character count varies, and no discernible pattern to  
> anything that I can see.  Any ideas?  Is it an OS thing?
>
> I am on Windows XP, Rev 2.9.0.
>
> Mark


From runrev at aboutmyfiles.com  Wed Dec  3 18:40:49 2008
From: runrev at aboutmyfiles.com (Mark E. Powell)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 23:40:49 +0000
Subject: launch URL with mailto yields inconsistent 'can't open
	file'	error
Message-ID: <W47546573556531228347649@webmail49>

Nope.  I did testing by writing letter A's multiple times, with same result.

Mark


>Hi Mark,
>
>Is it possible that your text contains diacritics? I have posted a bug  
>about it to the QCC, but this concerns Mac OS X.
>
>
>Best regards,
>
>Mark Schonewille





From runrev at aboutmyfiles.com  Wed Dec  3 18:44:29 2008
From: runrev at aboutmyfiles.com (Mark E. Powell)
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 23:44:29 +0000
Subject: launch URL with mailto yields inconsistent 'can't
	open	file'	error
Message-ID: <W478022604195971228347869@webmail21>

Should also say that exactly the same thing happens with revMail.  Once total character count gets upward of 1700, it returns the error 'can't open file'




From runrev260805 at m-r-d.de  Wed Dec  3 19:16:35 2008
From: runrev260805 at m-r-d.de (runrev260805 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 00:16:35 +0000
Subject: launch URL with mailto yields inconsistent 'can't open file'
 error
Message-ID: <000333EF.49372F72@the-office.us>

Hi Mark,

have you tried your mailto: string in the adressfield of your webbrowser?
Or just try the "large" mailto within the "RUN"-box where you can enter a command into one line. Don?t know the exact
name, because i am working with a german windows - here it?s called ausfuerhen... . You can normally reach this field from the "start"-button.

I ran into similar problems long time ago and if i remember right it was a restriction of the mapi32.dll. At least here.

So if it does not work in your browser, then it is a mapi thing.

Regards,

Matthias


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: launch URL with mailto yields inconsistent 'can't open file' error (04-Dez-2008 0:30)
From:    Mark E. Powell <runrev at aboutmyfiles.com>
To:      runrev260805 at m-r-d.de

> Could use some wisdom and a Scotch on this one.
> 
> I am having problems with launch URL failing as the content string gets 
> long.  In my tests, when the total mailto argument resolves to between 1645 
> and 1980 characters, the launch fails with 'can't open file'.  The 
> character count varies, and no discernible pattern to anything that I can 
> see.  Any ideas?  Is it an OS thing?
> 
> I am on Windows XP, Rev 2.9.0.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com

From bdrunrev at gmail.com  Thu Dec  4 04:57:15 2008
From: bdrunrev at gmail.com (Bernard Devlin)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 09:57:15 +0000
Subject: DOS window and shell function
In-Reply-To: <4936FF8C.7060808@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <619EC83B-1AD3-4187-BA07-476DDA6BCFE8@byu.edu>
	<3794490B-C0B2-47F6-A58D-5BECAB8A8E32@byu.edu>
	<72055703-31F3-416E-AB4B-608E72327BED@mac.com>
	<4936FF8C.7060808@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <edcc7e6b0812040157x4ff45e1fn4d5074ff019c1de0@mail.gmail.com>

It's the only way to ensure you'll have an intelligent conversation :-)

Bernard

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 9:52 PM, J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>wrote:

>
> On the other hand, I was relieved to see that I'm not the only one who
> talks to themselves.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>
>


From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Thu Dec  4 05:00:38 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 11:00:38 +0100
Subject: DOS window and shell function
In-Reply-To: <edcc7e6b0812040157x4ff45e1fn4d5074ff019c1de0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <619EC83B-1AD3-4187-BA07-476DDA6BCFE8@byu.edu>
	<3794490B-C0B2-47F6-A58D-5BECAB8A8E32@byu.edu>
	<72055703-31F3-416E-AB4B-608E72327BED@mac.com>
	<4936FF8C.7060808@hyperactivesw.com>
	<edcc7e6b0812040157x4ff45e1fn4d5074ff019c1de0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B2A306ED-D01D-42A0-933C-EE5AA1B23145@economy-x-talk.com>

Talking to your cat works too!

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

Color Converter has been updated! Get it at
http://colorconverter.economy-x-talk.com !

On 4 dec 2008, at 10:57, Bernard Devlin wrote:

> It's the only way to ensure you'll have an intelligent  
> conversation :-)
>
> Bernard



From andre at andregarzia.com  Thu Dec  4 08:42:30 2008
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 11:42:30 -0200
Subject: DOS window and shell function
In-Reply-To: <edcc7e6b0812040157x4ff45e1fn4d5074ff019c1de0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <619EC83B-1AD3-4187-BA07-476DDA6BCFE8@byu.edu>
	<3794490B-C0B2-47F6-A58D-5BECAB8A8E32@byu.edu>
	<72055703-31F3-416E-AB4B-608E72327BED@mac.com>
	<4936FF8C.7060808@hyperactivesw.com>
	<edcc7e6b0812040157x4ff45e1fn4d5074ff019c1de0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7c87a2a10812040542j50055d86va58c694eb83d531a@mail.gmail.com>

In my case, I don't think so... I once had a conversation with myself
while coding that in the end thru a bigger than life insight made me
realize that my code didn't build because I was coding in Javascript
inside Turbo C (Never, Ever, Code before Coffee...)

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 7:57 AM, Bernard Devlin <bdrunrev at gmail.com> wrote:
> It's the only way to ensure you'll have an intelligent conversation :-)
>
> Bernard
>
> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 9:52 PM, J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> On the other hand, I was relieved to see that I'm not the only one who
>> talks to themselves.
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Dec  4 10:48:45 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 07:48:45 -0800
Subject: DOS window and shell function
Message-ID: <4937FBDD.5020609@fourthworld.com>

Mark wrote:

> Talking to your cat works too!

LOL. My cat critiques my Rev presentations before the conferences.

He's a very patient cat. :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Thu Dec  4 11:02:21 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 11:02:21 -0500
Subject: Hide command not setting invisible to false
Message-ID: <4171E574-46CE-4399-933C-FFE328BBEDA1@mac.com>

Can anyone confirm that the Hide command for an image does NOT set the  
visible of that image to false???

Thanks,

Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html







From runrev at aboutmyfiles.com  Thu Dec  4 11:03:16 2008
From: runrev at aboutmyfiles.com (Mark E. Powell)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 16:03:16 +0000
Subject: pinging Intranet using Active Directory credentials
Message-ID: <W64962501563731228406596@webmail36>

I can see the corporate intranet through browsers and other tools.  However, when I use 'load URL' type calls within Rev to the intranet location I get HTTP Error 401.1

Unauthorized: Access is denied due to invalid credentials.

I am sure this is because the corporate image is set up to read Active Directory credentials transparently.  

How do I do the same from a Rev standalone?  Is there standard syntax for passing these parameters?  

TIA for any life raft you have to spare.

Mark




From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Thu Dec  4 11:25:13 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 11:25:13 -0500
Subject: Hide command not setting invisible to false
In-Reply-To: <4171E574-46CE-4399-933C-FFE328BBEDA1@mac.com>
References: <4171E574-46CE-4399-933C-FFE328BBEDA1@mac.com>
Message-ID: <42A42B4D-5E8E-46E6-8B73-A3E263A3DC83@mac.com>

OK, so the script was not finishing and therefore leaving a blank &  
visible image (it never got to the hide command) Damn error dialog  
hiding behind window problem.


Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html


On Dec 4, 2008, at 11:02 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Can anyone confirm that the Hide command for an image does NOT set  
> the visible of that image to false???
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom McGrath III
> Lazy River Software
> 3mcgrath at comcast.net
>
> iTunes Library Suite - libITS
> Information and download can be found on this page:
> http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Dec  4 11:26:45 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 08:26:45 -0800
Subject: Hide command not setting invisible to false
Message-ID: <493804C5.6000207@fourthworld.com>

Thomas McGrath wrote:
> Can anyone confirm that the Hide command for an image does NOT set the  
> visible of that image to false???

I just ran this in the Message Box with Rev engine 3.0 build 750 (in the 
MC IDE):

    hide img 1; put the vis of img 1

It returned "false"

What do you get there?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From jim at oyfconsulting.com  Thu Dec  4 11:36:51 2008
From: jim at oyfconsulting.com (Jim Carwardine)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 12:36:51 -0400
Subject: OT:  Creating a PC Compatible DVD...
In-Reply-To: <AEABEA99-DCDC-4CF5-BE2A-A4AC791C08BA@mac.com>
References: <466873.50912.qm@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<8B4A727A-FC85-4E00-BAFF-C5DFCCF91D9B@oyfconsulting.com>
	<p06240803c55c7bc4521e@[192.168.1.105]>
	<D758BCBF-FE90-4811-A395-26B32736FC66@oyfconsulting.com>
	<p06240805c55c945c15d3@[192.168.1.105]>
	<EF63AD71-2DA0-43D2-9EB7-885D18C16E8A@oyfconsulting.com>
	<AEABEA99-DCDC-4CF5-BE2A-A4AC791C08BA@mac.com>
Message-ID: <6725364A-61B5-4EDB-9966-55E0B55D48BD@oyfconsulting.com>

Thanks everyone for your advice... I tried running the copy on a real  
PC running XP and it worked fine and, since it also worked on my  
Panasonic TV recorder, I'll roll the dice and send it and hope their  
PC can run it too... Jim

On 3-Dec-08, at 5:13 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Jim,
>
> Don't assume that just cause it won't work on parallels that it  
> won't work on a PC. Parallels is touchy. I have to put the disk in  
> right at start up in order to get Parallels to recognize it.
>
> I do burn DVDs on the Mac for PC usage so things should be just  
> fine. Just make sure it is a full burn and not a rewritable.
>
>
> Tom McGrath III
> Lazy River Software
> 3mcgrath at comcast.net
>
> iTunes Library Suite - libITS
> Information and download can be found on this page:
> http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 3, 2008, at 3:23 PM, Jim Carwardine wrote:
>
>> Well... I guess I scared myself when it wouldn't work in  
>> Parallels... I have a DVD that was already burned on a PC that I  
>> want to dupe.  I have an Intel MacBook running 10.5.5 on which I  
>> duped the DVD using Disk Utility.
>>
>> I tried the new DVDs in Parallels running XP to see if they would  
>> read and they didn't.  When I looked on the Internet I found the  
>> issues around DVD-R vs DVD+R as well as the issues around MPEG2 not  
>> being readable on most PCs.  I didn't find much consensus on a Mac  
>> solution...
>>
>> I assumed, correctly or not, that if the DVDs did not work on  
>> Parallels then in all likelihood they would not work on any PC.   
>> I'm preparing to send the duped DVDs to a prospective client who is  
>> located in another city and I don't want them to call me to say  
>> they couldn't read the DVDs...
>>
>> Of course the easy way is to take them downtown and have a service  
>> dupe the original but I want to do it on my Mac, to prove a point  
>> if nothing else...
>>
>> On 3-Dec-08, at 3:58 PM, Stephen Barncard wrote:
>>
>>> You didn't mention the parallels part, nor what it is you are  
>>> trying to make, not to mention operating from the windows side.  
>>> Several levels of complication here.
>>> "Didn't work in XP in Parallels" means that either  
>>> windows,Parallels or whatever app you are using in windows  lacks  
>>> drivers or knowledge of your internal drive. Welcome to the PC  
>>> world.
>>>
>>> If it's video, can't you just make the thing on the Mac side?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks, Stephen... I'm using Panasonic DVD-R blanks and they  
>>>> didn't work in XP in Parallels.  A good brand might be any of the  
>>>> more expensive brands?  So, if I use an expensive DVD-R with  
>>>> iDVD, instead of Disk Utility) I will likely get a PC compatible  
>>>> DVD?  I can't target my audience other than to say they might not  
>>>> be using Vista... Jim
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>>
>>> stephen barncard
>>> s a n  f r a n c i s c o
>>> - - -  - - - - - - - - -
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>> Jim Carwardine,
>> President & CEO
>> OYF Consulting
>> Ph. 902.823.2339 / 866.601.2339
>> Fx. 902.823-2139
>> <www.StrategicDoing.com>
>> StrategicDoing?: When Strategic Planning is finished,
>> execution of your plan depends on your employees.
>> Strategic Partner with HiringSmart Inc.
>> -- 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


Jim Carwardine,
President & CEO
OYF Consulting
Ph. 902.823.2339 / 866.601.2339
Fx. 902.823-2139
<www.StrategicDoing.com>
StrategicDoing?: When Strategic Planning is finished,
execution of your plan depends on your employees.
Strategic Partner with HiringSmart Inc.
-- 








From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Thu Dec  4 11:38:55 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 11:38:55 -0500
Subject: snapshot problem 1
Message-ID: <C34C211B-7D20-4A70-BA1B-611724017338@mac.com>

When you import a snapshot - How do you get the name of the newly  
created image that the snapshot is placed in?

 From the Docs:

Comments:
The import snapshot command creates a new image in the center of the  
current card and places the snapshot in the image.



Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html







From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Thu Dec  4 11:41:45 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 11:41:45 -0500
Subject: Hide command not setting invisible to false
In-Reply-To: <493804C5.6000207@fourthworld.com>
References: <493804C5.6000207@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <433CD2F3-0D2C-4E2D-8E08-1EE6045B8F84@mac.com>

Richard,

See my reply to myself (going on a lot lately). It turned out to be an  
error dialog hiding behind the window so the script was not getting to  
the hide command but still creating a blank image.

Thanks

Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html

On Dec 4, 2008, at 11:25 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> OK, so the script was not finishing and therefore leaving a blank &  
> visible image (it never got to the hide command) Damn error dialog  
> hiding behind window problem.


On Dec 4, 2008, at 11:26 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Thomas McGrath wrote:
>> Can anyone confirm that the Hide command for an image does NOT set  
>> the  visible of that image to false???
>
> I just ran this in the Message Box with Rev engine 3.0 build 750 (in  
> the MC IDE):
>
>   hide img 1; put the vis of img 1
>
> It returned "false"
>
> What do you get there?
>
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Dec  4 11:51:13 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 17:51:13 +0100
Subject: snapshot problem 1
In-Reply-To: <C34C211B-7D20-4A70-BA1B-611724017338@mac.com>
References: <C34C211B-7D20-4A70-BA1B-611724017338@mac.com>
Message-ID: <7692C0EA-A3F1-4F16-80B0-E93678B31EDD@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonsoir Thomas,

Just rely on 'last' image:
set the name of last image to "MyImage"
etc.

Le 4 d?c. 08 ? 17:38, Thomas McGrath III a ?crit :

> When you import a snapshot - How do you get the name of the newly  
> created image that the snapshot is placed in?

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From pepetoo at cox.net  Thu Dec  4 11:55:03 2008
From: pepetoo at cox.net (Joe Lewis Wilkins)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 08:55:03 -0800
Subject: Snapshot image name
In-Reply-To: <433CD2F3-0D2C-4E2D-8E08-1EE6045B8F84@mac.com>
References: <493804C5.6000207@fourthworld.com>
	<433CD2F3-0D2C-4E2D-8E08-1EE6045B8F84@mac.com>
Message-ID: <D7E7F2D0-3A43-41F8-8861-79DDCA1D363B@cox.net>

>> Hi Tom,

Just a guess, but can you possibly do something like:

put the name of last image into imageName right after capturing the  
snapshot image?

HTH,

Joe Wilkins



From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Thu Dec  4 11:56:10 2008
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke, FB01)
Date: Thu,  4 Dec 2008 17:56:10 +0100
Subject: snapshot problem 1
Message-ID: <1228409770.49380baa7d97f@www.uni-kassel.de>

Thomas McGrath III mcgrath3 at mac.com wrote:


 >When you import a snapshot - How do you get the name of the newly  
> created image that the snapshot is placed in?

Y From the Docs:

> Comments:
> The import snapshot command creates a new image in the center of the  
> current card and places the snapshot in the image.



> Tom McGrath III
> Lazy River Software

The new image is "nameless". You can refer to it  with "last image" and set a
name for this last image.

-- 
Wilhelm Sanke
<www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>

--------------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through http://www.uni-kassel.de/www-mail



From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Thu Dec  4 12:24:29 2008
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 17:24:29 +0000
Subject: pinging Intranet using Active Directory credentials
In-Reply-To: <W64962501563731228406596@webmail36>
References: <W64962501563731228406596@webmail36>
Message-ID: <4938124D.8040403@cogapp.com>

Mark E. Powell wrote:
> I can see the corporate intranet through browsers and other tools.  However, when I use 'load URL' type calls within Rev to the intranet location I get HTTP Error 401.1
> 
> Unauthorized: Access is denied due to invalid credentials.
> 
> I am sure this is because the corporate image is set up to read Active Directory credentials transparently.  
> 
> How do I do the same from a Rev standalone?  Is there standard syntax for passing these parameters?  
> 
> TIA for any life raft you have to spare.

Do you have any ability to watch the network traffic?  I use Interarchy on Mac 
(NB 8 and earlier, unfortunately this feature has been removed from the 
recently released Interarchy 9); but I believe there are free tools available 
for both Mac and Windows that do the same thing).  Search for Traffic Watch or 
Packet Sniffer (or perhaps someone on this list can recommend one).  If you're 
command line savvy, on Mac or Linux at least you can probably use tcpdump, 
which is built in - I've never figured out how to though.

Anyway, given such a facility,  the easiest way I find to debug these issues 
is to put some such program on, then access the resource through the browser. 
  Then you can look at the actual requests sent, and if necessary compare with 
the request being sent from Rev.

Depending on how your corporate intranet is secured, it may or may not be 
possible to access through Rev. AFAIK, it will most likely either be easy 
(once you've found out what you need to do) or impossible (if it requires some 
encrypted authentification requiring some Windows component).  Can you access 
the intranet from Mac or Linux, using a variety of browsers?  If so it will 
probably be easy.

HTH,

- Ben



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  4 12:47:48 2008
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 09:47:48 -0800
Subject: snapshot problem 1
In-Reply-To: <C34C211B-7D20-4A70-BA1B-611724017338@mac.com>
Message-ID: <C55D57C4.539D5%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Think of it just like
first card, last card, last field, last button

Assuming you do not change the layer order, you newest image will always be
the highest layer number.

If there is an image on the card, then there is a first and last image.
If there is one image on a card, the first and last image is the same.

So you could also use
set the name of the last image  to "Secret Handshake"
set the name of the top image  to "Secret Handshake"
set the name of image (the number of images)  to "Secret Handshake"

or follow this logic
set the layer of the last image to 1  -- becomes first image
set the layer of the first image to top  -- becomes last image
set the layer of the top image to bottom  -- becomes first image

You can see this in the Tools:Application Browser

Hope this helps

Jim Ault


On 12/4/08 8:38 AM, "Thomas McGrath III" <mcgrath3 at mac.com> wrote:

> When you import a snapshot - How do you get the name of the newly
> created image that the snapshot is placed in?
> 
>  From the Docs:
> 
> Comments:
> The import snapshot command creates a new image in the center of the
> current card and places the snapshot in the image.
> 
> 
> 
> Tom McGrath III
> Lazy River Software
> 3mcgrath at comcast.net
> 
> iTunes Library Suite - libITS
> Information and download can be found on this page:
> http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From hershf at rgllc.us  Thu Dec  4 16:31:56 2008
From: hershf at rgllc.us (hershel fisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 13:31:56 -0800
Subject: Sqlite remotely
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812011816s28fa890ai78a6f0d8d99bd216@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C55D8C4C.284%hershf@rgllc.us>

On 12/1/08 6:16 PM, "william humphrey" <shoreagent at gmail.com> wrote:

> Remotely? like multi-user on a server?
Even a single user.
And what's with multi? I understand that multi is not safe like its stated
on their website, but other then that?
Thanks, Hershel
> 
> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:16 PM, hershel fisch <hershf at rgllc.us> wrote:
> 
>> Hi, how would be the appropriate way if there is, to work with SQLite
>> remotely?
>> Hershel Fisch
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
> 
> 



From shoreagent at gmail.com  Thu Dec  4 13:43:04 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 14:43:04 -0400
Subject: Is it possible to see what called command?
Message-ID: <459b22a90812041043p7211d45br9664ed9dedcfa07d@mail.gmail.com>

If you have an error that is called by a command is it possible to see in
the error some more information like what command immediately preceded it?


From shoreagent at gmail.com  Thu Dec  4 14:04:16 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 15:04:16 -0400
Subject: Sqlite remotely
In-Reply-To: <C55D8C4C.284%hershf@rgllc.us>
References: <459b22a90812011816s28fa890ai78a6f0d8d99bd216@mail.gmail.com>
	<C55D8C4C.284%hershf@rgllc.us>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812041104g6b0283d6q9f714a414e5e7ea2@mail.gmail.com>

I'm sorry. I'm just trying to figure out what you mean by "remotely". I used
to use SQLite but it is only single-user and not very fast so I switched to
Valentina which is amazingly fast (you can call stuff from a large database
and it fills out your fields instantly). Valentina is also multi-user so you
can have the database on a remote server and call it from another computer.
You can also use MySQL similarly of course but it is much slower.

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 5:31 PM, hershel fisch <hershf at rgllc.us> wrote:

> On 12/1/08 6:16 PM, "william humphrey" <shoreagent at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Remotely? like multi-user on a server?
> Even a single user.
> And what's with multi? I understand that multi is not safe like its stated
> on their website, but other then that?
> Thanks, Hershel
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:16 PM, hershel fisch <hershf at rgllc.us> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi, how would be the appropriate way if there is, to work with SQLite
> >> remotely?
> >> Hershel Fisch
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-revolution mailing list
> >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.bluewatermaritime.com


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Dec  4 14:01:56 2008
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 11:01:56 -0800
Subject: pinging Intranet using Active Directory credentials
In-Reply-To: <4938124D.8040403@cogapp.com>
References: <W64962501563731228406596@webmail36> <4938124D.8040403@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <152162195484.20081204110156@ahsoftware.net>

Ben-

Thursday, December 4, 2008, 9:24:29 AM, you wrote:

> Packet Sniffer (or perhaps someone on this list can recommend one).  If you're
> command line savvy, on Mac or Linux at least you can probably use tcpdump,
> which is built in - I've never figured out how to though.

I use WireShark on OSX: it's geeky, but not quite as much as tcpdump.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Dec  4 14:07:53 2008
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 11:07:53 -0800
Subject: Town Planning for 7-9 year old EFL pupils.
In-Reply-To: <645748.97523.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <645748.97523.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <173162551718.20081204110753@ahsoftware.net>

Richmond-

Very nice. "Opposite" is somewhat ambiguous when referring to a
building on a corner - there are two "opposite" locations, and I can
see one of your 7-9 year olds complaining about why one works and the
other doesn't. And if you move your corner and junction gifs a bit
further back in the layering then the buildings won't slide behind
them when they're dragged. But I had no problem figuring out what I
was supposed to do (although I was annoyed that I couldn't drag the
trees around in the park)...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Dec  4 14:26:14 2008
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 11:26:14 -0800
Subject: snapshot problem 1
In-Reply-To: <C34C211B-7D20-4A70-BA1B-611724017338@mac.com>
Message-ID: <C55D6ED6.3DFB6%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> When you import a snapshot - How do you get the name of the newly
> created image that the snapshot is placed in?

If you want to get a little fancy, you can give the image your own name:

 set the name of the templateImage to "coolshot"
 import snapShot from rect theRect of this cd
 reset the templateImage -- REVERT TO NORMAL BEHAVIOR

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design




From sims at ezpzapps.com  Thu Dec  4 14:51:02 2008
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim Sims)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 20:51:02 +0100
Subject: pinging Intranet using Active Directory credentials
In-Reply-To: <152162195484.20081204110156@ahsoftware.net>
References: <W64962501563731228406596@webmail36> <4938124D.8040403@cogapp.com>
	<152162195484.20081204110156@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <5CF471D3-3C5C-49EF-921F-1556BAD6EDB0@ezpzapps.com>


On Dec 4, 2008, at 8:01 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

>>
>> Packet Sniffer (or perhaps someone on this list can recommend  
>> one).  If you're
>> command line savvy, on Mac or Linux at least you can probably use  
>> tcpdump,
>> which is built in - I've never figured out how to though.
>
> I use WireShark on OSX: it's geeky, but not quite as much as tcpdum



http://www.charlesproxy.com/

sims



From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Thu Dec  4 15:04:10 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 15:04:10 -0500
Subject: snapshot problem 1
In-Reply-To: <C55D57C4.539D5%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
References: <C55D57C4.539D5%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AB238261-A1C2-421F-A426-933EA5755D3F@mac.com>

Ok, thanks guys, I was stuck on "it" or "the result" since the docs  
state that snapshot 'creates' a new image. When ever I create a new  
object via script it places the long id of that object in "it".

last image will work.....

Thanks

Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html


On Dec 4, 2008, at 12:47 PM, Jim Ault wrote:

> Think of it just like
> first card, last card, last field, last button
>
> Assuming you do not change the layer order, you newest image will  
> always be
> the highest layer number.
>
> If there is an image on the card, then there is a first and last  
> image.
> If there is one image on a card, the first and last image is the same.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Jim Ault
>
>
> On 12/4/08 8:38 AM, "Thomas McGrath III" <mcgrath3 at mac.com> wrote:
>
>> When you import a snapshot - How do you get the name of the newly
>> created image that the snapshot is placed in?
>>
>> From the Docs:
>>
>> Comments:
>> The import snapshot command creates a new image in the center of the
>> current card and places the snapshot in the image.


From 3mcgrath at comcast.net  Thu Dec  4 15:06:53 2008
From: 3mcgrath at comcast.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 15:06:53 -0500
Subject: variable storage
Message-ID: <5C10CBB9-06A2-44F6-A7EA-F654507FE4BD@comcast.net>

Is there a way to store an object in a variable? I want to store a  
polygon or graphic in a variable or a custom property.

Thanks



Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html







From henk at ludisstudio.com  Thu Dec  4 15:17:05 2008
From: henk at ludisstudio.com (Henk van der Velden)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 21:17:05 +0100
Subject: OT: Edu Users Interested in Art/3D Art and Rev
In-Reply-To: <20081203180005.1720F48A492@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20081203180005.1720F48A492@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <91746EA7-B51E-47F6-BDB4-0B3AED1FD14A@ludisstudio.com>

Hi Lynn,

Right now I'm using Unity for 3D work. There's also 3D in Flash  
(FreeSpin3D for instance) that I'm going to take a look at.
If Rev can offer something different, I'm certainly interested.

Kind regards,

Henk
--------------------------
Henk v.d. Velden
iGlow Media
Magda Janssenslaan 36
3584 GR  UTRECHT
Netherlands

0031 (0)30 262 66 89
0031 (0)6 16 024 337
www.iglow-media.nl




On 3-dec-2008, at 19:00, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

>> Without going into great NDA busting detail, Mirye has picked up  
>> exclusive,
>> worldwide rights to a 3D software product (Windows and Mac, both)  
>> which
>> should be announced in time for MacWorld. Though Rev has little to  
>> do with
>> 3D, Rev is a superior multimedia system for content aggregation.



From geradamas at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  4 15:22:33 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 12:22:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Town Planning for 7-9 year old EFL pupils.
Message-ID: <857624.60980.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:

""Opposite" is somewhat ambiguous when referring to a
building on a corner"

Yes, you are exactly right; that is the kind of feedback that
is always useful.

"And if you move your corner and junction gifs a bit
further back in the layering then the buildings won't slide behind
them when they're dragged."

That one has a story behind it: when I made the original program
(featuring 5 different road layouts) I made my junctions and
corners by overlaying various angle gifs. It was only when 
I decided to upload my 'sampler' to revOnline I made the junction
and corner gifs as single gifs: and, in my enthusiasm to get
the thing finished overlooked the later order.

Again, thanks for the feedback.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Thu Dec  4 15:23:56 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 15:23:56 -0500
Subject: snapshot problem 1
In-Reply-To: <C55D6ED6.3DFB6%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <C55D6ED6.3DFB6%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <B2CEFF3B-5252-495B-8F9C-9DE6A2F48514@mac.com>

Scott, Now that is pretty cool. I haven't used a template yet.

Thanks,

Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html





On Dec 4, 2008, at 2:26 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> When you import a snapshot - How do you get the name of the newly
>> created image that the snapshot is placed in?
>
> If you want to get a little fancy, you can give the image your own  
> name:
>
> set the name of the templateImage to "coolshot"
> import snapShot from rect theRect of this cd
> reset the templateImage -- REVERT TO NORMAL BEHAVIOR
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From sundown at pacifier.com  Thu Dec  4 16:15:53 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:15:53 -0800
Subject: fileType & creator
Message-ID: <6869EBD6-C0D1-4DBF-BB70-FC07211D6CD9@pacifier.com>

I am creating a new file using the open file command.  I set the  
fileType after it
is opened then I write to the file and close it as seen in the code  
below.  I have
tried to use set the fileType and set the stackFileType as shown  
below but they
don't change the creator and file type.  Does anyone know the proper  
way to
write it so I can set the file type and creator when I create a new  
file?

     open file filePath for binary update
     set the  filetype to "RevoRSTK"
     --set the  stackfiletype to "RevoRSTK"
     put fld id 1009 into theFile
     write theFile to file filePath
     close file filePath

thanks,
-=>JB<=-


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Dec  4 16:28:48 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 13:28:48 -0800
Subject: snapshot problem 1
Message-ID: <49384B90.8090203@fourthworld.com>

Thomas McGrath wrote:
> Ok, thanks guys, I was stuck on "it" or "the result" since the docs  
> state that snapshot 'creates' a new image. When ever I create a new  
> object via script it places the long id of that object in "it".

It's curious that it doesn't when using "import snapshot".  Ideally all 
commands that create a new object would put that object's descriptor in it.

Have you filed an enhancement request for this?

It would seem useful.  I suspect sooner or later someone else will be 
caught by this inconsistency.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Dec  4 17:09:35 2008
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 14:09:35 -0800
Subject: variable storage
In-Reply-To: <5C10CBB9-06A2-44F6-A7EA-F654507FE4BD@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <C55D951F.3DFD5%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Is there a way to store an object in a variable? I want to store a
> polygon or graphic in a variable or a custom property.

I don't believe you can't store the object itself, but you can store the
properties of the object and create it on the fly by setting the properties
of the template object (in this case the templateGraphic) to the stored
properties.

Alternatively, you could store the object in a "holder" stack and store the
holder stack itself as binary data in a custom property of your main stack.

 set the uBinaryStack of myCoolStack to url ("binfile:" & pathToHolderStack)

When the time comes to access the object you use something like:

 go stack (the uBinaryStack of this stack)

...to open the binary-saved stack, copy your object, and close the
binary-saved stack.

As always, Rev offers a few options...

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design




From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Thu Dec  4 17:55:27 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 23:55:27 +0100
Subject: fileType & creator
In-Reply-To: <6869EBD6-C0D1-4DBF-BB70-FC07211D6CD9@pacifier.com>
References: <6869EBD6-C0D1-4DBF-BB70-FC07211D6CD9@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <C84C0D80-0E49-409D-910C-BCE414686461@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi JB,

Set the filetype before opening the file. It works fine for me in Rev  
3.0.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

Color Converter has been updated! Get it at
http://colorconverter.economy-x-talk.com !

On 4 dec 2008, at 22:15, -= JB =- wrote:

> I am creating a new file using the open file command.  I set the  
> fileType after it
> is opened then I write to the file and close it as seen in the code  
> below.  I have
> tried to use set the fileType and set the stackFileType as shown  
> below but they
> don't change the creator and file type.  Does anyone know the proper  
> way to
> write it so I can set the file type and creator when I create a new  
> file?
>
>    open file filePath for binary update
>    set the  filetype to "RevoRSTK"
>    --set the  stackfiletype to "RevoRSTK"
>    put fld id 1009 into theFile
>    write theFile to file filePath
>    close file filePath
>
> thanks,
> -=>JB<=-



From wow at together.net  Thu Dec  4 18:33:10 2008
From: wow at together.net (Richard Miller)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 18:33:10 -0500
Subject: Revolution contract work options
In-Reply-To: <C55D8C4C.284%hershf@rgllc.us>
References: <C55D8C4C.284%hershf@rgllc.us>
Message-ID: <493868B6.9030501@together.net>

I'm looking for some short term work (2 weeks - 2 months) doing 
Revolution programming. I don't care how laborious the work might be. Is 
there somewhere on the web one can go to search for contract work 
opportunities that fit this bill?

If anyone here has a need for extra programming help of this nature, 
please email me directly at rdmiller at together.net. I've got some time on 
my hands I'd like to fill.

Thanks.
Richard Miller


From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Thu Dec  4 18:38:51 2008
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (Scott Morrow)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 15:38:51 -0800
Subject: fileType & creator
In-Reply-To: <6869EBD6-C0D1-4DBF-BB70-FC07211D6CD9@pacifier.com>
References: <6869EBD6-C0D1-4DBF-BB70-FC07211D6CD9@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <733D48B1-44B9-4C7F-855C-8917E95C24E3@elementarysoftware.com>

So close!
when you open the file it is created. So set the fileType before  
opening (creating) the file.

-- Dictionary: <snip> The fileType property is used to set the file  
type and creator of files created by the open file command and of  
files created</snip>

-Scott Morrow
Elementary Software

On Dec 4, 2008, at 1:15 PM, -= JB =- wrote:

> I am creating a new file using the open file command.  I set the  
> fileType after it
> is opened then I write to the file and close it as seen in the code  
> below.  I have
> tried to use set the fileType and set the stackFileType as shown  
> below but they
> don't change the creator and file type.  Does anyone know the proper  
> way to
> write it so I can set the file type and creator when I create a new  
> file?
>
>    open file filePath for binary update
>    set the  filetype to "RevoRSTK"
>    --set the  stackfiletype to "RevoRSTK"
>    put fld id 1009 into theFile
>    write theFile to file filePath
>    close file filePath
>
> thanks,
> -=>JB<=-
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Thu Dec  4 18:48:57 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 00:48:57 +0100
Subject: variable storage
In-Reply-To: <5C10CBB9-06A2-44F6-A7EA-F654507FE4BD@comcast.net>
References: <5C10CBB9-06A2-44F6-A7EA-F654507FE4BD@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <C910D3E9-AEDC-4DFA-87CB-BE662F92C6FE@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi Tom,

The docs entry for the properties property might give you an idea of  
how to do this, in particular the syntax description "set the  
properties of object to propertiesArray".

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

Color Converter has been updated! Get it at
http://colorconverter.economy-x-talk.com !

On 4 dec 2008, at 21:06, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Is there a way to store an object in a variable? I want to store a  
> polygon or graphic in a variable or a custom property.
>
> Thanks



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Dec  4 14:26:24 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 20:26:24 +0100
Subject: Is it possible to see what called command?
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812041043p7211d45br9664ed9dedcfa07d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812041043p7211d45br9664ed9dedcfa07d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <132BFB82-A221-4920-947B-D8507195576C@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonsoir William,

Le 4 d?c. 08 ? 19:43, william humphrey a ?crit :

> If you have an error that is called by a command is it possible to  
> see in
> the error some more information like what command immediately  
> preceded it?

If a function returns directly an error, you can test the result when  
calling  a command.
In addition the executionContexts function (undocumented) might help  
you.

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Dec  4 19:10:21 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 18:10:21 -0600
Subject: fileType & creator
In-Reply-To: <6869EBD6-C0D1-4DBF-BB70-FC07211D6CD9@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <C55DCD8D.17C49%kray@sonsothunder.com>




On 12/4/08 3:15 PM, "-= JB =-" <sundown at pacifier.com> wrote:

> I am creating a new file using the open file command.  I set the
> fileType after it
> is opened then I write to the file and close it as seen in the code
> below.  

I think you need to set the fileType *before* the "open file" command...

>      open file filePath for binary update
>      set the  filetype to "RevoRSTK"
>      --set the  stackfiletype to "RevoRSTK"
>      put fld id 1009 into theFile
>      write theFile to file filePath
>      close file filePath

Also, you're writing text to a file that has a type/creator code that
matches a Revolution stack? If that wasn't the intention, you should change
the type/creator accordingly...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Dec  4 19:11:39 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 18:11:39 -0600
Subject: Is it possible to see what called command?
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812041043p7211d45br9664ed9dedcfa07d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C55DCDDB.17C4A%kray@sonsothunder.com>


> If you have an error that is called by a command is it possible to see in
> the error some more information like what command immediately preceded it?

Yes - although it is currently "unsupported", you can ask for "the
executionContexts" and get a series of lines that indicate the call stack of
the messages.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From kee at kagi.com  Thu Dec  4 19:31:44 2008
From: kee at kagi.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 16:31:44 -0800
Subject: Sqlite remotely
In-Reply-To: <C55D8C4C.284%hershf@rgllc.us>
References: <C55D8C4C.284%hershf@rgllc.us>
Message-ID: <3DDE4D5F-04B0-452A-BFA0-503443F57613@kagi.com>

sqlite is is a sql database but it is not a multi-user database. Think  
of it as a local file on your hard drive (in fact that is what it is).  
If you want to use it remotely, you have to mount that hard drive  
remotely, open the sqlite file, and then read and write to it. While  
you are doing that, no one else can.

If you want multiple people to read and write from the same sqlite  
database file, you will need to build an app that accepts requests  
from remote users and it and only it opens and reads and writes to  
that data file. That connecter server is not a standard part of  
sqlite. You would have to build it yourself.

sqlite is great for applications that need local data storage. For  
example, most (if not all) of the Apple apps running on a Mac store  
all their data in sqlite data files. It's not a multi-user database.

Kee Nethery




From sundown at pacifier.com  Thu Dec  4 21:02:53 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 18:02:53 -0800
Subject: fileType & creator
In-Reply-To: <C84C0D80-0E49-409D-910C-BCE414686461@economy-x-talk.com>
References: <6869EBD6-C0D1-4DBF-BB70-FC07211D6CD9@pacifier.com>
	<C84C0D80-0E49-409D-910C-BCE414686461@economy-x-talk.com>
Message-ID: <252DFB4A-A52A-445E-804A-EBDDBB2AC3F0@pacifier.com>

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the info!  It works good.  I read the dictionary quite a few
times and either it does not explain to use it before opening the file
or I missed it.  They should probably make it clear where to use it.

The only other problem is after changing the file type it does not
automatically change the file to display the Rev ICON but that is
not a serious issue.

-=>JB<=-


On Dec 4, 2008, at 2:55 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote:

> Hi JB,
>
> Set the filetype before opening the file. It works fine for me in  
> Rev 3.0.
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Schonewille
>
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> http://economy-x-talk.com
> http://www.salery.biz
> Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum
>
> Color Converter has been updated! Get it at
> http://colorconverter.economy-x-talk.com !
>
> On 4 dec 2008, at 22:15, -= JB =- wrote:
>
>> I am creating a new file using the open file command.  I set the  
>> fileType after it
>> is opened then I write to the file and close it as seen in the  
>> code below.  I have
>> tried to use set the fileType and set the stackFileType as shown  
>> below but they
>> don't change the creator and file type.  Does anyone know the  
>> proper way to
>> write it so I can set the file type and creator when I create a  
>> new file?
>>
>>    open file filePath for binary update
>>    set the  filetype to "RevoRSTK"
>>    --set the  stackfiletype to "RevoRSTK"
>>    put fld id 1009 into theFile
>>    write theFile to file filePath
>>    close file filePath
>>
>> thanks,
>> -=>JB<=-
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From sundown at pacifier.com  Thu Dec  4 21:49:28 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 18:49:28 -0800
Subject: fileType & creator
In-Reply-To: <733D48B1-44B9-4C7F-855C-8917E95C24E3@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <6869EBD6-C0D1-4DBF-BB70-FC07211D6CD9@pacifier.com>
	<733D48B1-44B9-4C7F-855C-8917E95C24E3@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <BBDD81FC-2CB6-42C7-BA52-933234F4A56D@pacifier.com>

Thanks for the info and taking the time to reply.  That is what I  
like about
the Rev list, so many nice people willing to help out.

-=>JB<=-


On Dec 4, 2008, at 3:38 PM, Scott Morrow wrote:

> So close!
> when you open the file it is created. So set the fileType before  
> opening (creating) the file.
>
> -- Dictionary: <snip> The fileType property is used to set the file  
> type and creator of files created by the open file command and of  
> files created</snip>
>
> -Scott Morrow
> Elementary Software
>
> On Dec 4, 2008, at 1:15 PM, -= JB =- wrote:
>
>> I am creating a new file using the open file command.  I set the  
>> fileType after it
>> is opened then I write to the file and close it as seen in the  
>> code below.  I have
>> tried to use set the fileType and set the stackFileType as shown  
>> below but they
>> don't change the creator and file type.  Does anyone know the  
>> proper way to
>> write it so I can set the file type and creator when I create a  
>> new file?
>>
>>    open file filePath for binary update
>>    set the  filetype to "RevoRSTK"
>>    --set the  stackfiletype to "RevoRSTK"
>>    put fld id 1009 into theFile
>>    write theFile to file filePath
>>    close file filePath
>>
>> thanks,
>> -=>JB<=-
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From sundown at pacifier.com  Thu Dec  4 22:04:23 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 19:04:23 -0800
Subject: fileType & creator
In-Reply-To: <C55DCD8D.17C49%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <C55DCD8D.17C49%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <E42896EB-EBC8-438F-834E-435AC565647A@pacifier.com>

Thanks Ken.  It works when I set it *before* the ""open file"  
command.  As for the
file type it was good of you to mention that but I wanted it to be a  
Rev stack due
to I was transferring a Rev stack with a communications program I  
wrote and I
wanted to save it properly after it is transferred.

-=>JB<=-


On Dec 4, 2008, at 4:10 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

>
>
>
> On 12/4/08 3:15 PM, "-= JB =-" <sundown at pacifier.com> wrote:
>
>> I am creating a new file using the open file command.  I set the
>> fileType after it
>> is opened then I write to the file and close it as seen in the code
>> below.
>
> I think you need to set the fileType *before* the "open file"  
> command...
>
>>      open file filePath for binary update
>>      set the  filetype to "RevoRSTK"
>>      --set the  stackfiletype to "RevoRSTK"
>>      put fld id 1009 into theFile
>>      write theFile to file filePath
>>      close file filePath
>
> Also, you're writing text to a file that has a type/creator code that
> matches a Revolution stack? If that wasn't the intention, you  
> should change
> the type/creator accordingly...
>
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Thu Dec  4 22:06:43 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:06:43 -0500
Subject: snapshot problem 1
In-Reply-To: <49384B90.8090203@fourthworld.com>
References: <49384B90.8090203@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <4E9903B9-37F2-4394-A0A4-BC84634C1015@mac.com>

No I haven't filed anything yet. Kinda busy right now with three  
projects.


Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html





On Dec 4, 2008, at 4:28 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Thomas McGrath wrote:
>> Ok, thanks guys, I was stuck on "it" or "the result" since the  
>> docs  state that snapshot 'creates' a new image. When ever I create  
>> a new  object via script it places the long id of that object in  
>> "it".
>
> It's curious that it doesn't when using "import snapshot".  Ideally  
> all commands that create a new object would put that object's  
> descriptor in it.
>
> Have you filed an enhancement request for this?
>
> It would seem useful.  I suspect sooner or later someone else will  
> be caught by this inconsistency.
>
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Thu Dec  4 22:09:53 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:09:53 -0500
Subject: variable storage
In-Reply-To: <C55D951F.3DFD5%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <C55D951F.3DFD5%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <D81F2692-2A2E-4248-A82A-B0AFC0B15A82@mac.com>

Scott, thanks. seems a little complicated because I wanted to do this  
with dozens of objects. So this would mean dozens of stacks. For my  
needs I think it might be better to store them all in one separate  
stack.

Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html


On Dec 4, 2008, at 5:09 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> Is there a way to store an object in a variable? I want to store a
>> polygon or graphic in a variable or a custom property.
>
> I don't believe you can't store the object itself, but you can store  
> the
> properties of the object and create it on the fly by setting the  
> properties
> of the template object (in this case the templateGraphic) to the  
> stored
> properties.
>
> Alternatively, you could store the object in a "holder" stack and  
> store the
> holder stack itself as binary data in a custom property of your main  
> stack.
>
> set the uBinaryStack of myCoolStack to url ("binfile:" &  
> pathToHolderStack)
>
> When the time comes to access the object you use something like:
>
> go stack (the uBinaryStack of this stack)
>
> ...to open the binary-saved stack, copy your object, and close the
> binary-saved stack.
>
> As always, Rev offers a few options...
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Thu Dec  4 22:14:56 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:14:56 -0500
Subject: variable storage
In-Reply-To: <C910D3E9-AEDC-4DFA-87CB-BE662F92C6FE@economy-x-talk.com>
References: <5C10CBB9-06A2-44F6-A7EA-F654507FE4BD@comcast.net>
	<C910D3E9-AEDC-4DFA-87CB-BE662F92C6FE@economy-x-talk.com>
Message-ID: <D77C83D3-BFF2-49D6-B101-24A88BA88C23@mac.com>

Mark, Yes except that the properties does not store ALL of the  
possible properties of an object. So it is not a perfect match to the  
original object. I actually started with the properties first and then  
started looking for other ways that might be better and include ALL of  
the possible properties.

Still looking for a best case scenario.


Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html





On Dec 4, 2008, at 6:48 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote:

> Hi Tom,
>
> The docs entry for the properties property might give you an idea of  
> how to do this, in particular the syntax description "set the  
> properties of object to propertiesArray".
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Schonewille
>
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> http://economy-x-talk.com
> http://www.salery.biz
> Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum
>
> Color Converter has been updated! Get it at
> http://colorconverter.economy-x-talk.com !
>
> On 4 dec 2008, at 21:06, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> Is there a way to store an object in a variable? I want to store a  
>> polygon or graphic in a variable or a custom property.
>>
>> Thanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Dec  5 00:09:26 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:09:26 -0800
Subject: variable storage
Message-ID: <4938B786.1090008@fourthworld.com>

Thomas McGrath wrote:

> Mark, Yes except that the properties does not store ALL of the  
> possible properties of an object. So it is not a perfect match to the  
> original object. 

I believe "the properties" contains all modiable properties of an 
object, so that if you apply that to the template object along with "the 
script" and "the customProperties" you'll effectively recreate the 
object in all respects except for ID, which can be handled with the 
altID property if needed.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From toolbook at kestner.de  Fri Dec  5 04:20:53 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 10:20:53 +0100
Subject: How to detect a CD Drive / write permissions?
Message-ID: <76FD7D4E951A4BFC938AD38810A705E8@Kestner.local>

Hello,

didn't found the answer in the archives, though it seems to be very
standard.

1. How to test If I have write permissions on a dir?

Is the appropriate approach to try to write a file on the wanted dir and if
it fails I know I can't? Or is there a Rev function to ask?

2. How can I detect, if a volume is a HD or CD/DVD?

If I know that I don't have write permissions with the above test, I still
don't know, if it is a permission problem (what I could ask the user for) or
if I am on a CD/DVD (where I don't want to ask the user)? How can I
differentiate that, I didn't find a Rev function which tells me something
about the kind of drives?

Thanks for any hints and approaches

Tiemo

 

 

 

 



From bvg at mac.com  Fri Dec  5 07:19:39 2008
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:19:39 +0100
Subject: variable storage
In-Reply-To: <4938B786.1090008@fourthworld.com>
References: <4938B786.1090008@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <252EE006-6C1A-47B7-97FC-6FE8518C7B37@mac.com>


On 5 Dec 2008, at 06:09, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Thomas McGrath wrote:
>
>> Mark, Yes except that the properties does not store ALL of the   
>> possible properties of an object. So it is not a perfect match to  
>> the  original object.
>
> I believe "the properties" contains all modiable properties of an  
> object, so that if you apply that to the template object along with  
> "the script" and "the customProperties" you'll effectively recreate  
> the object in all respects except for ID, which can be handled with  
> the altID property if needed.


The properties contains the ID, but not the antialiased. Therefore,  
this is not true, in fact, there is no way to get all changeable  
properties (or every unchangeable property a single object may have)  
at once, without creating a custom collection function. This of course  
makes a lot of things very complicated, including making your own  
default objects, creating custom property viewers, and introduces  
various problems for custom debugging and profiling.

I'm sure there's an enhancement request for this, but I can't find it  
(it's hard to search for anything that contains "properties")...  
Should I file one?


-- 

official ChatRev page:
http://bjoernke.com/runrev/chatrev.php

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://bjoernke.com/stacks/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev"



From shoreagent at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 09:07:25 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 10:07:25 -0400
Subject: Is it possible to see what called command?
In-Reply-To: <C55DCDDB.17C4A%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <459b22a90812041043p7211d45br9664ed9dedcfa07d@mail.gmail.com>
	<C55DCDDB.17C4A%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812050607v4407856h50bde061337f2b36@mail.gmail.com>

That's amazing. Thanks


From shoreagent at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 09:18:45 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 10:18:45 -0400
Subject: preferences and re-inventing the wheel
Message-ID: <459b22a90812050618u25ab67c1p40a73e8d91026f47@mail.gmail.com>

I've never made software that anyone else had to use so I never noticed how
many things are missing in RunRev.
1. There is an excellent menu builder.

2. There is no preference file builder. This should call a sqlite plist file
or something for your program so it can load the information necessary to
run any version of your software. It should also have a flag so you can know
if the computer is meant to host the server or if it is one of the clients.
It needs user name, host name, database name, password, and all kinds of
other stuff like whether it is a Valentina server or a MySQL server.

3. There is no automatic "update my program from a remote server on the
internet". This is something everyone is familiar with in commercial
software and it is crazy (in my opinion) to make every developer re-write
this. The above preference file would be necessary first especially if you
also update the database schema and have to run a back-up of that data
first.

4. Serial number versioning system and protection scheme for unlocking
compiled copies of your program after a 30 day trial period. Every
commercial software has this too. I read this list about various people
trying to invent this. Shouldn't it be available for everyone?

It seems to me that there are many genius developers on this mailing list.
Why can't one come forward (like maybe Andre for the automatic update my
program over the internet substack) and the rest of us all offer him $100 a
piece to make that substack? In these down economic times maybe a socialist
solution like this would be a good idea? Unless, of course, some one is
already working on these solutions or has them already and will sell them
for a reasonable price?

Thanks, I'm going to go back in my grass hut now...


From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Fri Dec  5 09:25:58 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 09:25:58 -0500
Subject: variable storage
In-Reply-To: <252EE006-6C1A-47B7-97FC-6FE8518C7B37@mac.com>
References: <4938B786.1090008@fourthworld.com>
	<252EE006-6C1A-47B7-97FC-6FE8518C7B37@mac.com>
Message-ID: <A366FCA1-5E2A-4D8D-B438-595BB32AB700@mac.com>

I think you should file an Enhancement Request for this. I would if I  
had the time. This is the second gotcha I hit since I started this  
project.

I think the thing that hit me on this was the antialiased property. So  
maybe a custom function might do the trick.


Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html


On Dec 5, 2008, at 7:19 AM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:

>
> On 5 Dec 2008, at 06:09, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> Thomas McGrath wrote:
>>
>>> Mark, Yes except that the properties does not store ALL of the   
>>> possible properties of an object. So it is not a perfect match to  
>>> the  original object.
>>
>> I believe "the properties" contains all modiable properties of an  
>> object, so that if you apply that to the template object along with  
>> "the script" and "the customProperties" you'll effectively recreate  
>> the object in all respects except for ID, which can be handled with  
>> the altID property if needed.
>
>
> The properties contains the ID, but not the antialiased. Therefore,  
> this is not true, in fact, there is no way to get all changeable  
> properties (or every unchangeable property a single object may have)  
> at once, without creating a custom collection function. This of  
> course makes a lot of things very complicated, including making your  
> own default objects, creating custom property viewers, and  
> introduces various problems for custom debugging and profiling.
>
> I'm sure there's an enhancement request for this, but I can't find  
> it (it's hard to search for anything that contains "properties")...  
> Should I file one?
>
>
> -- 
>
> official ChatRev page:
> http://bjoernke.com/runrev/chatrev.php
>
> Chat with other RunRev developers:
> go stack URL "http://bjoernke.com/stacks/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev"
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Fri Dec  5 09:27:58 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 15:27:58 +0100
Subject: preferences and re-inventing the wheel
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812050618u25ab67c1p40a73e8d91026f47@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812050618u25ab67c1p40a73e8d91026f47@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <541DD7E4-266E-4521-B654-322106AD4471@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi William,

Economy-x-Talk does all the things you mention for clients. I think  
there are more people on this list who have already invented their own  
systems to save preferecnes, make installers, get the versioning right  
etc.

I don't expect RunRev Ltd to create a general-purpose solution for  
each of the issues in your list, because everybody will need something  
slightly different. We will probably all end up creating our own  
systems anyway. If you would like to have a solution customized to  
your needs, feel free to contact me off-list.

Btw, I believe there is an installer maker included in the sales  
package offered by RunRev.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

Color Converter has been updated! Get it at
http://colorconverter.economy-x-talk.com !

On 5 dec 2008, at 15:18, william humphrey wrote:

> I've never made software that anyone else had to use so I never  
> noticed how
> many things are missing in RunRev.
> 1. There is an excellent menu builder.
>
> 2. There is no preference file builder. This should call a sqlite  
> plist file
> or something for your program so it can load the information  
> necessary to
> run any version of your software. It should also have a flag so you  
> can know
> if the computer is meant to host the server or if it is one of the  
> clients.
> It needs user name, host name, database name, password, and all  
> kinds of
> other stuff like whether it is a Valentina server or a MySQL server.
>
> 3. There is no automatic "update my program from a remote server on  
> the
> internet". This is something everyone is familiar with in commercial
> software and it is crazy (in my opinion) to make every developer re- 
> write
> this. The above preference file would be necessary first especially  
> if you
> also update the database schema and have to run a back-up of that data
> first.
>
> 4. Serial number versioning system and protection scheme for unlocking
> compiled copies of your program after a 30 day trial period. Every
> commercial software has this too. I read this list about various  
> people
> trying to invent this. Shouldn't it be available for everyone?
>
> It seems to me that there are many genius developers on this mailing  
> list.
> Why can't one come forward (like maybe Andre for the automatic  
> update my
> program over the internet substack) and the rest of us all offer him  
> $100 a
> piece to make that substack? In these down economic times maybe a  
> socialist
> solution like this would be a good idea? Unless, of course, some one  
> is
> already working on these solutions or has them already and will sell  
> them
> for a reasonable price?
>
> Thanks, I'm going to go back in my grass hut now...




From shoreagent at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 09:34:29 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 10:34:29 -0400
Subject: preferences and re-inventing the wheel
In-Reply-To: <541DD7E4-266E-4521-B654-322106AD4471@economy-x-talk.com>
References: <459b22a90812050618u25ab67c1p40a73e8d91026f47@mail.gmail.com>
	<541DD7E4-266E-4521-B654-322106AD4471@economy-x-talk.com>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812050634j1828313do53c7bfaa74c2ca12@mail.gmail.com>

Why would there be a separate installer maker? If you have enterprise you
already can make compiled versions for each platform. Is the installer maker
something which has these missing features?  That sounds interesting...
I will check out Economy-x-Talk -  and  if I could afford you or anyone
right now I wouldn't be in such a muddle over this but thanks for the offer
:)


From lists at futilism.com  Fri Dec  5 09:34:40 2008
From: lists at futilism.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 14:34:40 +0000
Subject: preferences and re-inventing the wheel
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812050618u25ab67c1p40a73e8d91026f47@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812050618u25ab67c1p40a73e8d91026f47@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <39CEF41A-69F6-4A9A-BB27-1336BAFE628B@futilism.com>

William, have a look at Trevor Devore's GLX application framework:

http://www.bluemangolearning.com/developer/revolution/

It's pobably not even close to possible for RunRev themselves to  
implement every single thing that is commonly used by developers, but  
happily, developers have a habit of building their own tools, and  
people around here seem to be inclned to share - there really is a  
lot of stuff available.

One problem we have is that unlike PHP or some other languages, there  
isn't a central repository for everything avialable - though it seems  
that RunRev are planning a major reworking of Rev Online, I'd imagine  
with this exact problem in mind.

Have a look at the "Revolution Search Engine" under the help menu -  
that will help you find stuff, and the rev web-ring also will take  
you to many useful resources - you can start at my page and go from  
there: http://futsoft.futilism.com/revolutionstuff.html

Best,

Mark


On 5 Dec 2008, at 14:18, william humphrey wrote:

> I've never made software that anyone else had to use so I never  
> noticed how
> many things are missing in RunRev.
> 1. There is an excellent menu builder.
>
> 2. There is no preference file builder. This should call a sqlite  
> plist file
> or something for your program so it can load the information  
> necessary to
> run any version of your software. It should also have a flag so you  
> can know
> if the computer is meant to host the server or if it is one of the  
> clients.
> It needs user name, host name, database name, password, and all  
> kinds of
> other stuff like whether it is a Valentina server or a MySQL server.
>
> 3. There is no automatic "update my program from a remote server on  
> the
> internet". This is something everyone is familiar with in commercial
> software and it is crazy (in my opinion) to make every developer re- 
> write
> this. The above preference file would be necessary first especially  
> if you
> also update the database schema and have to run a back-up of that data
> first.
>
> 4. Serial number versioning system and protection scheme for unlocking
> compiled copies of your program after a 30 day trial period. Every
> commercial software has this too. I read this list about various  
> people
> trying to invent this. Shouldn't it be available for everyone?
>
> It seems to me that there are many genius developers on this  
> mailing list.
> Why can't one come forward (like maybe Andre for the automatic  
> update my
> program over the internet substack) and the rest of us all offer  
> him $100 a
> piece to make that substack? In these down economic times maybe a  
> socialist
> solution like this would be a good idea? Unless, of course, some  
> one is
> already working on these solutions or has them already and will  
> sell them
> for a reasonable price?
>
> Thanks, I'm going to go back in my grass hut now...
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mikeythek at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 09:48:51 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 09:48:51 -0500
Subject: preferences and re-inventing the wheel
In-Reply-To: <541DD7E4-266E-4521-B654-322106AD4471@economy-x-talk.com>
References: <459b22a90812050618u25ab67c1p40a73e8d91026f47@mail.gmail.com>
	<541DD7E4-266E-4521-B654-322106AD4471@economy-x-talk.com>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812050648j3ff95d56v59ff5af548ad7c35@mail.gmail.com>

William,

RR isn't the only RAD/IDE that does not do or provide these functions.
 RR is a general purpose development environment, and none of the ones
I use include such niceties.  However, there are numerous add-ons that
people have developed.  If one of these does not meet your needs, you
have just discovered a new product market for yourself.

On the item of preferences, there are so many OTHER ways to implement
this that using your proposed solution is actually more complicated,
IMHO, than using many of the other options.  It probably works better
for you than any of mine, so go for it!

Automatic updates are already implemented in numerous RR stacks,
including (if memory serves me right) RevZilla, GLX2, and even RR
itself, so the source code should be trivial to find.  I prefer to NOT
have an updater, and none of the development environments that I use
include a functionality built-in.  Every solution to the problem has
uglies associated with it, which means that you have engineering
decisions to make before implementation.  I have never even considered
giving one to my users in

Version and serial number control is a common problem in every
environment with a multitude of solutions.  Some of those (actually
MANY of those) are commercial.  NONE of the solutions are ideal.  I
can think of at least ten that are completely and radically different
from each other.  Which one is the one RR should implement?  Why
should the rest of us have to put up with THAT one?

Anyway, have no fear.  RR is flexible, so write what you want and sell it.


From shoreagent at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 10:11:28 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 11:11:28 -0400
Subject: preferences and re-inventing the wheel
In-Reply-To: <39CEF41A-69F6-4A9A-BB27-1336BAFE628B@futilism.com>
References: <459b22a90812050618u25ab67c1p40a73e8d91026f47@mail.gmail.com>
	<39CEF41A-69F6-4A9A-BB27-1336BAFE628B@futilism.com>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812050711t6f0bc3faw8c80e3f0393238e7@mail.gmail.com>

I'm glad I made this post as it looks like the Blue Mango development
framework is the answer. It looks like the solution which any developer
would need.


From luis at anachreon.co.uk  Fri Dec  5 10:23:33 2008
From: luis at anachreon.co.uk (Luis)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 15:23:33 +0000
Subject: preferences and re-inventing the wheel
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812050618u25ab67c1p40a73e8d91026f47@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812050618u25ab67c1p40a73e8d91026f47@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <402B9BD7-38BB-464E-9EDA-8D9D766CD20C@anachreon.co.uk>

Hiya,

On point '4': have you seen http://www.runrev.com/products/related- 
software/zygodact

Should cater for part of that at least. Nice bonus is the cgi script.

For versioning I'd go for Magic carpet if you don't want to roll your  
own: http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/MagicCarpetCover/default.htm

Cheers,

Luis.


On 5 Dec 2008, at 14:18, william humphrey wrote:

<snippety-snip>

>
>
> 4. Serial number versioning system and protection scheme for unlocking
> compiled copies of your program after a 30 day trial period. Every
> commercial software has this too. I read this list about various  
> people
> trying to invent this. Shouldn't it be available for everyone?
>
> It seems to me that there are many genius developers on this  
> mailing list.
> Why can't one come forward (like maybe Andre for the automatic  
> update my
> program over the internet substack) and the rest of us all offer  
> him $100 a
> piece to make that substack? In these down economic times maybe a  
> socialist
> solution like this would be a good idea? Unless, of course, some  
> one is
> already working on these solutions or has them already and will  
> sell them
> for a reasonable price?
>
> Thanks, I'm going to go back in my grass hut now...
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From nealk3nc at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 10:24:20 2008
From: nealk3nc at gmail.com (Neal Campbell)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 10:24:20 -0500
Subject: preferences and re-inventing the wheel
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812050711t6f0bc3faw8c80e3f0393238e7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812050618u25ab67c1p40a73e8d91026f47@mail.gmail.com>
	<39CEF41A-69F6-4A9A-BB27-1336BAFE628B@futilism.com>
	<459b22a90812050711t6f0bc3faw8c80e3f0393238e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <325413300812050724o2a7c385fm8ff3eea24812e157@mail.gmail.com>

Absolutely agree, I think Trevor's framework is one of the major
developments in the RR world for 2008. Thanks again Trevor!

Neal Campbell
Abroham Neal Software
Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux
(540) 242 0911
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Try Spot for OS X, the intelligent DXCluster Client at
www.abrohamnealsoftware.com -  $15.99
-------------------------------------------------
For a great dog book, visit www.abrohamneal.com
-------------------------------------------------
See the FlexRadio Systems Flex-5000a in
action at www.flex-videos.com




On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:11 AM, william humphrey <shoreagent at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm glad I made this post as it looks like the Blue Mango development
> framework is the answer. It looks like the solution which any developer
> would need.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Dec  5 10:49:19 2008
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 10:49:19 -0500
Subject: preferences and re-inventing the wheel
In-Reply-To: <325413300812050724o2a7c385fm8ff3eea24812e157@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812050618u25ab67c1p40a73e8d91026f47@mail.gmail.com>
	<39CEF41A-69F6-4A9A-BB27-1336BAFE628B@futilism.com>
	<459b22a90812050711t6f0bc3faw8c80e3f0393238e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<325413300812050724o2a7c385fm8ff3eea24812e157@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B41F61EA-4B75-4FB6-B350-F6A83FB09CA4@mangomultimedia.com>

On Dec 5, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Neal Campbell wrote:

> Absolutely agree, I think Trevor's framework is one of the major
> developments in the RR world for 2008. Thanks again Trevor!

You are welcome.

Once I get an update to ScreenSteps that we are working on out the  
door I have a nice update to release. Hopefully by the end of the  
year. The update has some fixes and improvements to auto updating and  
will also have a custom version of libURL with beefed up proxy support  
(among other things) so that the auto updater, as well as any urls you  
fetch with libURL, are more likely to work in corporations.

I will also be putting together some more docs and a getting started  
guide as what I have available now is pretty bare bones.

Regards,

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Learning Systems
ScreenSteps: http://www.screensteps.com
Developer Resources: http://revolution.bluemangolearning.com


From heather at runrev.com  Fri Dec  5 11:34:50 2008
From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Nagey)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 16:34:50 +0000
Subject: See Jerry-in-the-box with Megabundle
References: <E4205C4D-06C6-4C55-813A-8DA5A550AF59@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <6627C3F0-4B05-4635-A543-3035344FF893@runrev.com>

Dear List Folks,

Hope the holidays are shaping up well for you....

Does it sometimes seem that Jerry Daniels pops up everywhere? Check out
Jerry-in-the-box at

http://www.runrev.com/offers/megabundle08/index.htm

While you're there, you might just LOOK at the amazing goodies we're   
giving away this year. If your license is coming up for renewal,  or  
you haven't yet got the Revolution license you really want, this is  
definitely the best time to buy!

Warm Regards,

Heather Nagey
Customer Services Manager
Runtime Revolution Ltd
http://www.runrev.com


From dunbarx at aol.com  Fri Dec  5 11:43:17 2008
From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 11:43:17 -0500
Subject: Newbie
Message-ID: <9906F1A3.3EF4.49FB.A37E.F06D4A016E9D@aol.com>

All;

Kind of. I am an experienced HC author, trying this rev thing out.

Spent an hour learning that the message box is married to the stack it 
was opened with.

If I create a stack and fool around with the msg box, then go to 
another stack, all my efforts to do simple tasks fail. Why? Because 
the names of objects were invalid, since msg was still linked to the 
earlier stack. I only got a clue to this when I used object numbers 
instead of names, and of course there it does not matter, and my 
simple commands worked. I closed msg and reopened it with the second 
stack in front. No problem.

My question is, why on earth? And more important, where does it say 
this anywhere in the docs. At least msg should say so.

I see the benefits of Rev. I miss the natural, almost perfect 
transparency of you know what. And I know that thread is old.

Hello, Jacqueline.

Craig Newman


From coiin at rcn.com  Fri Dec  5 11:56:50 2008
From: coiin at rcn.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 11:56:50 -0500
Subject: Newbie
In-Reply-To: <9906F1A3.3EF4.49FB.A37E.F06D4A016E9D@aol.com>
References: <9906F1A3.3EF4.49FB.A37E.F06D4A016E9D@aol.com>
Message-ID: <0D8CCF78-AD8C-44B2-9E8B-821CF737A901@rcn.com>


On Dec 5, 2008, at 11:43 AM, dunbarx wrote:

> Hello, Jacqueline.

You think she's the only one here you know?

About the message box, try playing with the multiline variation. Then  
you can start trying tests with a few lines of code, and that can  
have enough advantages over a one line persistent message box that  
you'll learn to cope with the different way of working.




From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Fri Dec  5 11:58:33 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 17:58:33 +0100
Subject: Newbie
In-Reply-To: <9906F1A3.3EF4.49FB.A37E.F06D4A016E9D@aol.com>
References: <9906F1A3.3EF4.49FB.A37E.F06D4A016E9D@aol.com>
Message-ID: <9A4139B0-7B9B-4E95-8F0B-BF329E68B9CB@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi Craig,

Welcome to the list. I'm sure you'll see a lot of familiar faces here  
and will quickly feel at home.

The problem with the message box is well-known to me. It is a bug,  
which sometimes occurs and sometimes stays away. I hope it will get  
fixed soon.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

Color Converter has been updated! Get it at
http://colorconverter.economy-x-talk.com !

On 5 dec 2008, at 17:43, dunbarx wrote:

> All;
>
> Kind of. I am an experienced HC author, trying this rev thing out.
>
> Spent an hour learning that the message box is married to the stack  
> it was opened with.
>
> If I create a stack and fool around with the msg box, then go to  
> another stack, all my efforts to do simple tasks fail. Why? Because  
> the names of objects were invalid, since msg was still linked to the  
> earlier stack. I only got a clue to this when I used object numbers  
> instead of names, and of course there it does not matter, and my  
> simple commands worked. I closed msg and reopened it with the second  
> stack in front. No problem.
>
> My question is, why on earth? And more important, where does it say  
> this anywhere in the docs. At least msg should say so.
>
> I see the benefits of Rev. I miss the natural, almost perfect  
> transparency of you know what. And I know that thread is old.
>
> Hello, Jacqueline.
>
> Craig Newman




From pepetoo at cox.net  Fri Dec  5 12:04:23 2008
From: pepetoo at cox.net (Joe Lewis Wilkins)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 09:04:23 -0800
Subject: Newbie
In-Reply-To: <9906F1A3.3EF4.49FB.A37E.F06D4A016E9D@aol.com>
References: <9906F1A3.3EF4.49FB.A37E.F06D4A016E9D@aol.com>
Message-ID: <97C1C5A3-0388-4240-A3D1-447C6EC1989E@cox.net>

Hi Craig,

Possibly you may remember me from MY HC days.

Regarding your problem: My solution, something I've done a jillion  
times, is to just create my own msg box for each project. It may be as  
simple as a single field, or more if needed. My particular favorite is  
a field that I can paste equations into with it spitting out the  
result in a second field. Then I copy and paste the results into other  
docs upon which I am working at the time. Much better than a hand or  
desk calculator and easier on my failing eyes. (smile) Can even print  
as a paper whatchmacallit.

Just a thought!

Joe Wilkins

On Dec 5, 2008, at 8:43 AM, dunbarx wrote:

> All;
>
> Kind of. I am an experienced HC author, trying this rev thing out.
>
> Spent an hour learning that the message box is married to the stack  
> it was opened with.
>
> If I create a stack and fool around with the msg box, then go to  
> another stack, all my efforts to do simple tasks fail. Why? Because  
> the names of objects were invalid, since msg was still linked to the  
> earlier stack. I only got a clue to this when I used object numbers  
> instead of names, and of course there it does not matter, and my  
> simple commands worked. I closed msg and reopened it with the second  
> stack in front. No problem.
>
> My question is, why on earth? And more important, where does it say  
> this anywhere in the docs. At least msg should say so.
>
> I see the benefits of Rev. I miss the natural, almost perfect  
> transparency of you know what. And I know that thread is old.
>
> Hello, Jacqueline.
>
> Craig Newman
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

--
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See   <http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html>
----------------------------------------
Joe Lewis Wilkins
pepetoo at cox.net







From dunbarx at aol.com  Fri Dec  5 12:10:17 2008
From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:10:17 -0500
Subject: Newbie
In-Reply-To: <9A4139B0-7B9B-4E95-8F0B-BF329E68B9CB@economy-x-talk.com>
Message-ID: <6C55F4BE.9D06.46AB.8849.334C2262CC47@aol.com>

Colin! Mark!

I feel better already. Is Catherine Kunicki here?

Mark, you are correct, it is intermittant. Now msg works fine. And I see it tells you the current stack.

Great.

How do you live without Rinaldi? I know that it is possible to work around anything, one always could. But I am going to miss "fullFind".

Craig


On Dec 5, 2008, at 11:58:33 AM, "Mark Schonewille" <m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote:
From:   "Mark Schonewille" <m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com>
Subject:    Re: Newbie
Date:   December 5, 2008 11:58:33 AM EST
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Hi Craig,

Welcome to the list. I'm sure you'll see a lot of familiar faces here?
and will quickly feel at home.

The problem with the message box is well-known to me. It is a bug,?
which sometimes occurs and sometimes stays away. I hope it will get?
fixed soon.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

Color Converter has been updated! Get it at
http://colorconverter.economy-x-talk.com !

On 5 dec 2008, at 17:43, dunbarx wrote:

> All;
>
> Kind of. I am an experienced HC author, trying this rev thing out.
>
> Spent an hour learning that the message box is married to the stack?
> it was opened with.
>
> If I create a stack and fool around with the msg box, then go to?
> another stack, all my efforts to do simple tasks fail. Why? Because?
> the names of objects were invalid, since msg was still linked to the?
> earlier stack. I only got a clue to this when I used object numbers?
> instead of names, and of course there it does not matter, and my?
> simple commands worked. I closed msg and reopened it with the second?
> stack in front. No problem.
>
> My question is, why on earth? And more important, where does it say?
> this anywhere in the docs. At least msg should say so.
>
> I see the benefits of Rev. I miss the natural, almost perfect?
> transparency of you know what. And I know that thread is old.
>
> Hello, Jacqueline.
>
> Craig Newman


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From shoreagent at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 12:24:58 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 13:24:58 -0400
Subject: preferences and re-inventing the wheel
In-Reply-To: <B41F61EA-4B75-4FB6-B350-F6A83FB09CA4@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <459b22a90812050618u25ab67c1p40a73e8d91026f47@mail.gmail.com>
	<39CEF41A-69F6-4A9A-BB27-1336BAFE628B@futilism.com>
	<459b22a90812050711t6f0bc3faw8c80e3f0393238e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<325413300812050724o2a7c385fm8ff3eea24812e157@mail.gmail.com>
	<B41F61EA-4B75-4FB6-B350-F6A83FB09CA4@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812050924ka6b6bf4hd27497d9cdc24bab@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Trevor!
It looks like your framework can be added after a RunRev project is
completed which takes a lot of worry out of development. Is it now called
ScreenSteps? I hope that you will also add some instructions for using
glx_FrameWorks with a RunRev application that uses Valentina server - that
will certainly make me hit your paypal donation button harder.

Bill


From shoreagent at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 12:25:56 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 13:25:56 -0400
Subject: preferences and re-inventing the wheel
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812050924ka6b6bf4hd27497d9cdc24bab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812050618u25ab67c1p40a73e8d91026f47@mail.gmail.com>
	<39CEF41A-69F6-4A9A-BB27-1336BAFE628B@futilism.com>
	<459b22a90812050711t6f0bc3faw8c80e3f0393238e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<325413300812050724o2a7c385fm8ff3eea24812e157@mail.gmail.com>
	<B41F61EA-4B75-4FB6-B350-F6A83FB09CA4@mangomultimedia.com>
	<459b22a90812050924ka6b6bf4hd27497d9cdc24bab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812050925n39419aack64b730eea5a63569@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, I see that ScreenSteps is another excellent product. I should get
more sleep...

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 1:24 PM, william humphrey <shoreagent at gmail.com>wrote:

> Thanks Trevor!
> It looks like your framework can be added after a RunRev project is
> completed which takes a lot of worry out of development. Is it now called
> ScreenSteps? I hope that you will also add some instructions for using
> glx_FrameWorks with a RunRev application that uses Valentina server - that
> will certainly make me hit your paypal donation button harder.
>
> Bill
>



-- 
http://www.bluewatermaritime.com


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  5 12:50:17 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 09:50:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <292688.77644.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Mark Schonewille wrote:

"I think  
there are more people on this list who have already invented their own  
systems to save preferecnes, make installers, get the versioning right  
etc.

I don't expect RunRev Ltd to create a general-purpose solution for  
each of the issues in your list, because everybody will need something  
slightly different. We will probably all end up creating our own  
systems anyway."

Now what I am going to write will be, I hope, contentious and stimulate
a lot of CONSTRUCTIVE comment:

I don't like being spoon-fed, and have spent my life in Education
trying to wean both kids and adult learners off a dependency on
spoon-feeding. I believe that when we were made/born we came with
reasonably efficient brains - and those brains are to be used.

What I like about Runtime Revolution consists of both its capabilities
and what it does not offer prepackaged; or, let me draw a parallel with
English (a language, as a Scot, I have made my living from for many years);
RR supplies the grammar, the syntax and the vocabulary; but, thank God, 
it does not supply the sentences; that is to say, it allows us an awful
lot of freedom. This has been demonstrated time and time again on this Use-List, where many people have come up with many solutions to a single
problem - this is fantastic. I, for one, have never had an urge to live
in a totalitarian state (especially as I live and work in a country that used to be a totalitarian state, and is still, 20 years later, suffering, considerably, from the psychological aftermath), in fact one of the reasons
I like life in Bulgaria rather than Scotland is that society is not becoming increasingly rule-bound. Nobody can accuse Runtime Revolution of being
rule-bound! And, ultimately it is psychologically healthier for us to
retrace parts of inventing the wheel (hence the collection of slide-rules down in my school, which I force on my pupils for 1 day a year).

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From hershf at rgllc.us  Fri Dec  5 15:56:42 2008
From: hershf at rgllc.us (hershel fisch)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:56:42 -0800
Subject: Sqlite remotely
In-Reply-To: <3DDE4D5F-04B0-452A-BFA0-503443F57613@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <C55ED58A.2B9%hershf@rgllc.us>

On 12/4/08 4:31 PM, "Kee Nethery" <kee at kagi.com> wrote:
Thanks, to all.
Hershel Fisch

> sqlite is is a sql database but it is not a multi-user database. Think
> of it as a local file on your hard drive (in fact that is what it is).
> If you want to use it remotely, you have to mount that hard drive
> remotely, open the sqlite file, and then read and write to it. While
> you are doing that, no one else can.
> 
> If you want multiple people to read and write from the same sqlite
> database file, you will need to build an app that accepts requests
> from remote users and it and only it opens and reads and writes to
> that data file. That connecter server is not a standard part of
> sqlite. You would have to build it yourself.
> 
> sqlite is great for applications that need local data storage. For
> example, most (if not all) of the Apple apps running on a Mac store
> all their data in sqlite data files. It's not a multi-user database.
> 
> Kee Nethery
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Dec  5 12:59:19 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 11:59:19 -0600
Subject: preferences and re-inventing the wheel
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812050618u25ab67c1p40a73e8d91026f47@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812050618u25ab67c1p40a73e8d91026f47@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49396BF7.8050303@hyperactivesw.com>

william humphrey wrote:

> 4. Serial number versioning system and protection scheme for unlocking
> compiled copies of your program after a 30 day trial period. Every
> commercial software has this too. I read this list about various people
> trying to invent this. Shouldn't it be available for everyone?

(Blowing my own horn:) There's a new RevSelect product just released 
yesterday that can help you with this. See Zygodact here: 
<http://www.runrev.com/products/related-software/zygodact>

It doesn't do versioning, which is a somewhat separate piece, but it 
does take care of creating and tracking user registrations for you. The 
manual tells you how to use it to implement trial periods and offers a 
script.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From wjm at wjm.org  Fri Dec  5 13:00:11 2008
From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 13:00:11 -0500
Subject: Newbie
References: <9906F1A3.3EF4.49FB.A37E.F06D4A016E9D@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ghbq7c$9cr$1@ger.gmane.org>

I am a little confused... If you look at the Rev message box, there is an 
area to the right of all the buttons across the top. (If you don't see those 
buttons, click the arrow icon in the top-right to show them.)

It will have the name of the target stack the messages will be sent to. If 
you have multiple stacks open, it will automatically change to whichever 
stack is in the foreground. You can simply select the stack you want to work 
with from the drop-down menu (click the name of the stack). If you want to 
lock it into a particular stack, just click the lock icon on the far right. 
Perhaps you locked the messages to a particular stack inadvertently?

It seems this obviates the need for tedious workarounds like fields, etc., 
and makes it unambiguous where a message should be directed.


"dunbarx" <dunbarx at aol.com> wrote
> Spent an hour learning that the message box is married to the stack it was 
> opened with.
>
> If I create a stack and fool around with the msg box, then go to another 
> stack, all my efforts to do simple tasks fail. Why? Because the names of 
> objects were invalid, since msg was still linked to the earlier stack. I 
> only got a clue to this when I used object numbers instead of names, and 
> of course there it does not matter, and my simple commands worked. I 
> closed msg and reopened it with the second stack in front. No problem.
>
> My question is, why on earth? And more important, where does it say this 
> anywhere in the docs. At least msg should say so.





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Dec  5 13:12:17 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:12:17 -0600
Subject: Newbie
In-Reply-To: <6C55F4BE.9D06.46AB.8849.334C2262CC47@aol.com>
References: <6C55F4BE.9D06.46AB.8849.334C2262CC47@aol.com>
Message-ID: <49396F01.30504@hyperactivesw.com>

dunbarx wrote:
> Colin! Mark!
> 
> I feel better already. Is Catherine Kunicki here?

Hi Craig! Great to see you here. Don't think Cat's here. You should poke
her to join. :)

> 
> Mark, you are correct, it is intermittant. Now msg works fine. And I 
> see it tells you the current stack.
> 

As you noticed, there's a slight bug in the message box. But when it is
working properly you can click on the stack name, and select the stack
you want it to target from a popup list. That's a very nice feature.

> Great.
> 
> How do you live without Rinaldi? I know that it is possible to work 
> around anything, one always could. But I am going to miss "fullFind".
> 
> 

I have only needed an external once in all the years I've been using
Rev, and that was for a very specialized application. All the other 
stuff we used to use externals for is now built into the engine. I 
really doubt you'll ever need to implement an external. The language has 
3 or 4 times as many commands and functions as you-know-what. ;)

FullFind can be replaced with the "filter" command, or by using any one
of the various offset functions. If you choose to use offset, be sure to
use the "skip" parameter or else you will be searching the same text
repeatedly.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Fri Dec  5 13:13:00 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:13:00 -0500
Subject: See Jerry-in-the-box with Megabundle
In-Reply-To: <6627C3F0-4B05-4635-A543-3035344FF893@runrev.com>
References: <E4205C4D-06C6-4C55-813A-8DA5A550AF59@runrev.com>
	<6627C3F0-4B05-4635-A543-3035344FF893@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <46D5E55E-0CE5-4635-92A8-783AE9F9C9D1@mac.com>

How long is this offer good for??? I could not find an until date?

Thanks

Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html





On Dec 5, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Heather Nagey wrote:

> Dear List Folks,
>
> Hope the holidays are shaping up well for you....
>
> Does it sometimes seem that Jerry Daniels pops up everywhere? Check  
> out
> Jerry-in-the-box at
>
> http://www.runrev.com/offers/megabundle08/index.htm
>
> While you're there, you might just LOOK at the amazing goodies  
> we're  giving away this year. If your license is coming up for  
> renewal,  or you haven't yet got the Revolution license you really  
> want, this is definitely the best time to buy!
>
> Warm Regards,
>
> Heather Nagey
> Customer Services Manager
> Runtime Revolution Ltd
> http://www.runrev.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Fri Dec  5 13:14:59 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:14:59 -0500
Subject: Newbie
In-Reply-To: <9906F1A3.3EF4.49FB.A37E.F06D4A016E9D@aol.com>
References: <9906F1A3.3EF4.49FB.A37E.F06D4A016E9D@aol.com>
Message-ID: <9246A961-3B74-4992-8F7A-D3C769622805@mac.com>

Welcome Craig......

Good to have you here on the Use list.

Regards,

Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html





On Dec 5, 2008, at 11:43 AM, dunbarx wrote:

> All;
>
> Kind of. I am an experienced HC author, trying this rev thing out.
>
> Spent an hour learning that the message box is married to the stack  
> it was opened with.
>
> If I create a stack and fool around with the msg box, then go to  
> another stack, all my efforts to do simple tasks fail. Why? Because  
> the names of objects were invalid, since msg was still linked to the  
> earlier stack. I only got a clue to this when I used object numbers  
> instead of names, and of course there it does not matter, and my  
> simple commands worked. I closed msg and reopened it with the second  
> stack in front. No problem.
>
> My question is, why on earth? And more important, where does it say  
> this anywhere in the docs. At least msg should say so.
>
> I see the benefits of Rev. I miss the natural, almost perfect  
> transparency of you know what. And I know that thread is old.
>
> Hello, Jacqueline.
>
> Craig Newman
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Dec  5 13:24:20 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:24:20 -0600
Subject: See Jerry-in-the-box with Megabundle
In-Reply-To: <46D5E55E-0CE5-4635-92A8-783AE9F9C9D1@mac.com>
References: <E4205C4D-06C6-4C55-813A-8DA5A550AF59@runrev.com>	<6627C3F0-4B05-4635-A543-3035344FF893@runrev.com>
	<46D5E55E-0CE5-4635-92A8-783AE9F9C9D1@mac.com>
Message-ID: <493971D4.9070503@hyperactivesw.com>

Thomas McGrath III wrote:
> How long is this offer good for??? I could not find an until date?

It's way down near the bottom, just above the last table with the 3 "Buy 
Now" buttons. January 16.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Dec  5 13:43:27 2008
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 13:43:27 -0500
Subject: preferences and re-inventing the wheel
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812050924ka6b6bf4hd27497d9cdc24bab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812050618u25ab67c1p40a73e8d91026f47@mail.gmail.com>
	<39CEF41A-69F6-4A9A-BB27-1336BAFE628B@futilism.com>
	<459b22a90812050711t6f0bc3faw8c80e3f0393238e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<325413300812050724o2a7c385fm8ff3eea24812e157@mail.gmail.com>
	<B41F61EA-4B75-4FB6-B350-F6A83FB09CA4@mangomultimedia.com>
	<459b22a90812050924ka6b6bf4hd27497d9cdc24bab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <713CD4B0-8A88-4CAA-96A5-1161BC3A7C80@mangomultimedia.com>

On Dec 5, 2008, at 12:24 PM, william humphrey wrote:

> Thanks Trevor!
> It looks like your framework can be added after a RunRev project is
> completed which takes a lot of worry out of development.

You can implement the framework into an existing program. You probably  
saw the lesson about this that discusses how to add your existing  
stacks to an app created with the framework:

<http://snipurl.com/7aud1>

> I hope that you will also add some instructions for using
> glx_FrameWorks with a RunRev application that uses Valentina server  
> - that
> will certainly make me hit your paypal donation button harder.

I'm not aware of anything specific to Valentina that would be  
different when using the framework. If you have specific questions let  
me know and I can create lessons to address them.

Regards,

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Learning Systems
ScreenSteps: http://www.screensteps.com
Developer Resources: http://revolution.bluemangolearning.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Dec  5 13:51:13 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 10:51:13 -0800
Subject: Newbie
Message-ID: <49397821.803@fourthworld.com>

dunbarx wrote:

> How do you live without Rinaldi?

Rinaldi's a Rev developer, so he's still with us.  In fact, he's even 
presented at some of the Rev conferences.

Check out the site for the Rinaldi Collection:

    Note to Revolution Users

    Transcript being so fast, some externals has been rewritten
    using it.  Those are now checkmarked in a new "RR" column
    appearing in the XCMD Collection list.  You simply have to
    copy the script to your stack in order to have all your
    existing calls to the external work identically, including
    original parameters.

    Keep on HyperCarding, SuperCarding, Directoring, MetaCarding...

    and most of all : Revolutioning, which is FINALLY the right
    HyperCard successor!

<http://rinaldicollection.free.fr/>


With HC I could barely get through the day without relying on externals, 
and when SuperCard came along at last I had real scrolling windows with 
scroll bars, integrated color support, native dialogs, and other things 
I used to have to work around with externals in HC, but I still had to 
use externals for many things like heavy text parsing/sorting, resource 
manipulation, etc.

When I first started porting projects to Rev back in '98, I was 
concerned that I'd have to rewrite externals twice, once for the Rev API 
again for use on Windows.  Wasn't looking forward to that.

What I found instead was that I don't need them at all:  the 
functionality of every external I'd ever used back then was relatively 
easy to rewrite natively in Rev, which not only saved me a heck of a lot 
of time but also means it all runs on all supported platforms - even Linux.

Rinaldi's right:  Transcript is so fast that once you get the hang of 
using "sort", "filter", "repeat for each...", and other things not found 
in native HyperTalk you'll likely be as pleasantly surprised as I was at 
how well you can do on your own, at last liberated from the need to keep 
jumping over to a C compiler for basic tasks.

And then you'll start using things like window transparency and custom 
shapes, object transparency, the new built-in gradients, integrated QTVR 
support, one-line HTTP and FTP commands, and a whole lot more, and the 
biggest problem you'll have is all the other things in your life that 
don't get attended to while you find yourself playing with Rev all day. :)


Here's a simple trick that you may enjoy if you haven't come across it 
before - put this in the Message Box and hit Return:

  go (decompress(url "http://www.fourthworld.net/revnet/RevNet.rev.gz"))

In one line it does the following:

1. Contacts my server and downloads RevNet.rev.gz

2. It's in a compressed gzip format for quick delivery,
    so the built-in decompress function expands it.

3. Opens and displays that stack from memory.

(You can also access that stack from within Rev using 
Development->Plugins->GoRevNet.)

There are other goodies in that stack, such as a list of other stacks 
that can be downloaded from within it, an index to the handy Rev tips 
from Ken Ray's site, and more, much of it dynamically pulled from 
different sites around the 'net -- all in native Transcript.

Built-in compression and one-liner Internet calls are among my favorite 
things about Rev, opening up whole new worlds for delivering 
centrally-managed software over the 'net.

If that sort of thing sparks your interest, check out this article on 
Richard Herz' Reactor Lab, a distributed courseware system made with Rev:
<http://www.revjournal.com/features/reactorlab.html>

The possibilities are endless....

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  5 13:55:14 2008
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 10:55:14 -0800
Subject: Newbie
In-Reply-To: <6C55F4BE.9D06.46AB.8849.334C2262CC47@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C55EB912.53A5F%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>


On 12/5/08 9:10 AM, "dunbarx" <dunbarx at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> How do you live without Rinaldi? I know that it is possible to work around
> anything, one always could. But I am going to miss "fullFind".
> 
I used to live with the Rinaldi library, but you will discover that Rev
needs very little in the way of extentions.

Check out F. Rinaldi's own site for his take on Rev and any updates he has
done.  

in fact, Rinaldi is built into the Rev Documentation feature
Try this.. 
In Rev, go to the menu and choose "Documentation"
then click on "Search"
then choose Web Database at the top of the palette.
Now type in "Rinaldi"
Double click on the choice "Rev Stuff_Frederic Rinaldi"

Also try "extension"

--------------------------------------------
( quoted from http://rinaldicollection.free.fr/)
Note to Revolution Users

Transcript being so fast, some externals has been rewritten using it.
Those are now checkmarked in a new "RR" column appearing in the XCMD
Collection list.
You simply have to copy the script to your stack in order to have all your
existing calls
to the external work identically, including original parameters.
----------------------------------------

By the way, you should try discovering two tools that help with learning the
rich Rev environment:
Application Browser in the Tool menu,
and explore the authoring power of Find & Replace in the Edit menu

Welcome to Rev and hope you find it very rewarding

Jim Ault
Las Vegas





From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Fri Dec  5 13:59:00 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:59:00 -0500
Subject: See Jerry-in-the-box with Megabundle
In-Reply-To: <493971D4.9070503@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <E4205C4D-06C6-4C55-813A-8DA5A550AF59@runrev.com>
	<6627C3F0-4B05-4635-A543-3035344FF893@runrev.com>
	<46D5E55E-0CE5-4635-92A8-783AE9F9C9D1@mac.com>
	<493971D4.9070503@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <630C63B7-EDB9-4F6A-8AD5-77ADB0645BD8@mac.com>

Ah, Yes, There it is. Way down there....... Right out in the open for  
everyone to see....

Thanks,

Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html





On Dec 5, 2008, at 1:24 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>> How long is this offer good for??? I could not find an until date?
>
> It's way down near the bottom, just above the last table with the 3  
> "Buy Now" buttons. January 16.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Dec  5 14:02:07 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:02:07 -0600
Subject: See Jerry-in-the-box with Megabundle
In-Reply-To: <630C63B7-EDB9-4F6A-8AD5-77ADB0645BD8@mac.com>
References: <E4205C4D-06C6-4C55-813A-8DA5A550AF59@runrev.com>	<6627C3F0-4B05-4635-A543-3035344FF893@runrev.com>	<46D5E55E-0CE5-4635-92A8-783AE9F9C9D1@mac.com>	<493971D4.9070503@hyperactivesw.com>
	<630C63B7-EDB9-4F6A-8AD5-77ADB0645BD8@mac.com>
Message-ID: <49397AAF.3060104@hyperactivesw.com>

Thomas McGrath III wrote:
> Ah, Yes, There it is. Way down there....... Right out in the open for 
> everyone to see....

Well, with Jerry's head bobbing around like that, I'm not surprised you 
were distracted. :)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jemirandav at gmail.com  Fri Dec  5 14:11:26 2008
From: jemirandav at gmail.com (Javier Miranda V.)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 15:11:26 -0400
Subject: Folder tree
Message-ID: <4B4C36F0-3E76-49B2-9D86-9957B02FEC9C@gmail.com>

Have anyone of you friends programmed an interface to show a  
graphically, a folder structure (nested) similar to the way Windwos  
use when in "Explore" mode?  It should be able to nest indeterminated  
number of subfolders reaching the actual documents at any level, it  
also shoul handle collapse/expand and be re-arranged like moving a  
folder up in the structure with it?s subfolders.


Saludos,

Javier Miranda V.






From sundown at pacifier.com  Fri Dec  5 14:29:05 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 11:29:05 -0800
Subject: writing lines to the driver
Message-ID: <E96D3836-585F-4693-9AF9-6A3B3F6D9F73@pacifier.com>

When I open a driver port I am able to write to the driver and close  
the port without any problems.
I can open the driver port and write to the driver 9 times writing  
one line at a time no problems.
After I write the 10th line to the driver Rev crashes.
If I close the port after writing line 9 to the driver I can write to  
the driver 9 more times.

The line can have a few chars or a large line of text and the crash  
still comes after writing to the
driver 9 times.

How can I clear any buffer or whatever is doing the counting without  
closing the port and the
needing to reopen the port to keep writing lines to the driver?

-=>JB<=-


From sundown at pacifier.com  Fri Dec  5 14:36:56 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 11:36:56 -0800
Subject: preferences and re-inventing the wheel
In-Reply-To: <49396BF7.8050303@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <459b22a90812050618u25ab67c1p40a73e8d91026f47@mail.gmail.com>
	<49396BF7.8050303@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <ABA56480-0CB1-40A0-8920-DBCABDEE76A6@pacifier.com>

That sounds really nice, Jacque.

-=>JB<=-


On Dec 5, 2008, at 9:59 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> william humphrey wrote:
>
>> 4. Serial number versioning system and protection scheme for  
>> unlocking
>> compiled copies of your program after a 30 day trial period. Every
>> commercial software has this too. I read this list about various  
>> people
>> trying to invent this. Shouldn't it be available for everyone?
>
> (Blowing my own horn:) There's a new RevSelect product just  
> released yesterday that can help you with this. See Zygodact here:  
> <http://www.runrev.com/products/related-software/zygodact>
>
> It doesn't do versioning, which is a somewhat separate piece, but  
> it does take care of creating and tracking user registrations for  
> you. The manual tells you how to use it to implement trial periods  
> and offers a script.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From viktoras at ekoinf.net  Fri Dec  5 14:38:09 2008
From: viktoras at ekoinf.net (viktoras didziulis)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 21:38:09 +0200
Subject: Sqlite remotely
In-Reply-To: <C55ED58A.2B9%hershf@rgllc.us>
References: <C55ED58A.2B9%hershf@rgllc.us>
Message-ID: <49398321.3070702@ekoinf.net>

there is one trick to make it working like a multiuser database. The 
same trick was frequently used in all flat-file based multiuser 
environments (mostly websites). I did not try it with Revolution yet, 
but did many times in Perl (CGI) and it works. It is not lightning fast, 
but multiuser.

A verbal simplified description of this "ancient" recipe is:
(1) Before updating database check if file "sem.txt" is present.
(2) If it is present - wait a few milliseconds and check (1) again.
(3) Otherwise if it is not present, create "sem.txt" and start updating 
the database.
(4) When the job is finished, delete "sem.txt", so that another process 
won't see it.

one implementation of sqlite that is able to access remote sqlite 
database is Apache modsqlite module. Ask Google for more info..

best wishes!
Viktoras

hershel fisch wrote:
> On 12/4/08 4:31 PM, "Kee Nethery" <kee at kagi.com> wrote:
> Thanks, to all.
> Hershel Fisch
>
>   
>> sqlite is is a sql database but it is not a multi-user database. Think
>> of it as a local file on your hard drive (in fact that is what it is).
>> If you want to use it remotely, you have to mount that hard drive
>> remotely, open the sqlite file, and then read and write to it. While
>> you are doing that, no one else can.
>>
>> If you want multiple people to read and write from the same sqlite
>> database file, you will need to build an app that accepts requests
>> from remote users and it and only it opens and reads and writes to
>> that data file. That connecter server is not a standard part of
>> sqlite. You would have to build it yourself.
>>
>> sqlite is great for applications that need local data storage. For
>> example, most (if not all) of the Apple apps running on a Mac store
>> all their data in sqlite data files. It's not a multi-user database.
>>
>> Kee Nethery
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>   



From geradamas at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  5 16:11:00 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 13:11:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Town Planning for 7-9 year old EFL pupils.
Message-ID: <85262.59871.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Layer-Fix version of "LOCATION.rev" uploaded to revOnline.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Fri Dec  5 21:05:00 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 18:05:00 -0800
Subject: Rev On Rockets On Dreamhost - Does it work there?
In-Reply-To: <85262.59871.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <85262.59871.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c55f868ada43@[192.168.1.105]>

Hello Rev Nation,

I was watching Andre's discussion of Rev On Rockets from the Vegas 
conferences, and got inspired to give it a go. It seemed so simple. 
It works great locally on the Mac.

The hosting for me and my friends is Dreamhost, and I was certain 
that I heard that someone had successfully made it work there. I had 
saved the earliest ROR code that Andre put out a while ago, and which 
I tried to unsuccessfully get to work.

Read the docs, placed the 2.9 x86 Linux standalone engine into the 
cgi-bin folder (after installing the www part of ROR into cgi-bin), 
set the permissions to 755, renamed Standalone to revolution (lower 
case), and brought up a browser looking at a subdomain I created for 
RevHTTP on the web.

I zipped everything and used Terminal to expand  in situ. Also just 
downloaded the newest version of Andre's code. Same thing.

Errors, errors. It's obvious Rev is not being executed. Did anyone 
really get it to work at Dreamhost and what were the incantations? 
Did the aforementioned engine ever work? Will the 3.5 engine work? 
Should I try to go back in history and get a really old engine?  I 
thought Rev had fixed this. Searches on the net of old list posts 
reveal Dan Shafer giving up in desperation and not many success 
stories.

I'm sure it's me or my something about Dreamhost one or the other. 
I'm not sure they could help me unless I have some idea of what to do.

This is one of two major gaps I have with rev. The other is getting 
SQLLite to do anything. (I work with SQL Fat every day....) .. I'm 
off to watch Trevor's VEGAS 08 talk on just that topic.

thanks,

sqb

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -





From lists at futilism.com  Fri Dec  5 21:36:16 2008
From: lists at futilism.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 02:36:16 +0000
Subject: Rev On Rockets On Dreamhost - Does it work there?
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c55f868ada43@[192.168.1.105]>
References: <85262.59871.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06240800c55f868ada43@[192.168.1.105]>
Message-ID: <45D402D4-5DF2-4D7B-ADE4-96A0886233AB@futilism.com>

Stephen, I've not run RoR, but I am having no problems running the  
3.0 engine (Linux of course) for cgi on Dreamhost. Does RoR act as  
web-server? Would that mean disabling Apache?

Best,

Mark

On 6 Dec 2008, at 02:05, Stephen Barncard wrote:

> Hello Rev Nation,
>
> I was watching Andre's discussion of Rev On Rockets from the Vegas  
> conferences, and got inspired to give it a go. It seemed so simple.  
> It works great locally on the Mac.
>
> The hosting for me and my friends is Dreamhost, and I was certain  
> that I heard that someone had successfully made it work there. I  
> had saved the earliest ROR code that Andre put out a while ago, and  
> which I tried to unsuccessfully get to work.
>
> Read the docs, placed the 2.9 x86 Linux standalone engine into the  
> cgi-bin folder (after installing the www part of ROR into cgi-bin),  
> set the permissions to 755, renamed Standalone to revolution (lower  
> case), and brought up a browser looking at a subdomain I created  
> for RevHTTP on the web.
>
> I zipped everything and used Terminal to expand  in situ. Also just  
> downloaded the newest version of Andre's code. Same thing.
>
> Errors, errors. It's obvious Rev is not being executed. Did anyone  
> really get it to work at Dreamhost and what were the incantations?  
> Did the aforementioned engine ever work? Will the 3.5 engine work?  
> Should I try to go back in history and get a really old engine?  I  
> thought Rev had fixed this. Searches on the net of old list posts  
> reveal Dan Shafer giving up in desperation and not many success  
> stories.
>
> I'm sure it's me or my something about Dreamhost one or the other.  
> I'm not sure they could help me unless I have some idea of what to do.
>
> This is one of two major gaps I have with rev. The other is getting  
> SQLLite to do anything. (I work with SQL Fat every day....) .. I'm  
> off to watch Trevor's VEGAS 08 talk on just that topic.
>
> thanks,
>
> sqb
>
> -- 
>
>
> stephen barncard
> s a n  f r a n c i s c o
> - - -  - - - - - - - - -
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Fri Dec  5 23:47:42 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 20:47:42 -0800
Subject: Rev On Rockets On Dreamhost - Does it work there?
Message-ID: <p06240802c55fb4689a28@[192.168.1.105]>

Hi Mark,

No, ROR doesn't require RevHTTP. I'm not using that part of the 
demonstration. I've seen and tried that, and wanted to get it into 
the Apache world.

I'm strictly following Andre's instructions and can't even get <hello 
world> to work. He did it in front of people and video at the last 
RevCon. Thanks for the thumbs up on the 3.0 engine. Perhaps I made a 
mistake in engine. I'll try again.
thanks

sqb

>Stephen, I've not run RoR, but I am having no problems running the 
>3.0 engine (Linux of course) for cgi on Dreamhost. Does RoR act as 
>web-server? Would that mean disabling Apache?
>
>Best,
>
>Mark

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -





From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Dec  6 00:24:28 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 23:24:28 -0600
Subject: How to detect a CD Drive / write permissions?
In-Reply-To: <76FD7D4E951A4BFC938AD38810A705E8@Kestner.local>
Message-ID: <C55F68AC.17CDF%kray@sonsothunder.com>


 didn't found the answer in the archives, though it seems to be very
> standard.
> 
> 1. How to test If I have write permissions on a dir?
> 
> 2. How can I detect, if a volume is a HD or CD/DVD?

What platform(s) do you need this info for?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Sat Dec  6 00:44:35 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 00:44:35 -0500
Subject: unfocus field
Message-ID: <BAAD7ED6-C9B0-4359-A4A4-526738830228@mac.com>

I need a little help.
I have field that accepts text. I want the insertion point and the  
focus border to not be there when I leave that field and push a button  
then go back to normal when the button script is done.

I tried showfocusborder but it does not get rid of the insertion line
"focus on" only works if I have another field to change the focus to,  
but I don't.

Scratching my head??

Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html







From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Sat Dec  6 01:19:32 2008
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (Scott Morrow)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 22:19:32 -0800
Subject: unfocus field
In-Reply-To: <BAAD7ED6-C9B0-4359-A4A4-526738830228@mac.com>
References: <BAAD7ED6-C9B0-4359-A4A4-526738830228@mac.com>
Message-ID: <D56853A6-50E9-42FA-AEB0-77C5E128034F@elementarysoftware.com>

Hello Thomas,
You can also focus on other objects.  Your button script could say  
"focus on me" and that would remove the focus from your field.

Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       http://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com

On Dec 5, 2008, at 9:44 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> I need a little help.
> I have field that accepts text. I want the insertion point and the  
> focus border to not be there when I leave that field and push a  
> button then go back to normal when the button script is done.
>
> I tried showfocusborder but it does not get rid of the insertion line
> "focus on" only works if I have another field to change the focus  
> to, but I don't.
>
> Scratching my head??
>
> Tom McGrath III
> Lazy River Software
> 3mcgrath at comcast.net
>
> iTunes Library Suite - libITS
> Information and download can be found on this page:
> http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html



From pepetoo at cox.net  Sat Dec  6 01:00:02 2008
From: pepetoo at cox.net (Joe Lewis Wilkins)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 22:00:02 -0800
Subject: unfocus field
In-Reply-To: <BAAD7ED6-C9B0-4359-A4A4-526738830228@mac.com>
References: <BAAD7ED6-C9B0-4359-A4A4-526738830228@mac.com>
Message-ID: <ED3934DC-0B04-4B7F-B936-A4886904C595@cox.net>

Tom,

Maybe a little inelegant, but if it works when you have another field,  
why not try either a hidden or offscreen field for that purpose.

Joe Wilkins

On Dec 5, 2008, at 9:44 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> I need a little help.
> I have field that accepts text. I want the insertion point and the  
> focus border to not be there when I leave that field and push a  
> button then go back to normal when the button script is done.
>
> I tried showfocusborder but it does not get rid of the insertion line
> "focus on" only works if I have another field to change the focus  
> to, but I don't.
>
> Scratching my head??
>
> Tom McGrath III
> Lazy River Software
> 3mcgrath at comcast.net







From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Dec  6 01:54:00 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 00:54:00 -0600
Subject: unfocus field
In-Reply-To: <D56853A6-50E9-42FA-AEB0-77C5E128034F@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <C55F7DA8.17CE8%kray@sonsothunder.com>


> Hello Thomas,
> You can also focus on other objects.  Your button script could say
> "focus on me" and that would remove the focus from your field.

Even simpler:

   select empty

:-)


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Sat Dec  6 03:23:43 2008
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (Scott Morrow)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 00:23:43 -0800
Subject: unfocus field
In-Reply-To: <C55F7DA8.17CE8%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <C55F7DA8.17CE8%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <FC67EA76-9AC6-4070-AA52-E0F71BAF251E@elementarysoftware.com>

Rats... I knew that but got stuck on focus... and "focus on empty"  
doesn't cut it!  :  )
-Scott Morrow

On Dec 5, 2008, at 10:54 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

>
>> Hello Thomas,
>> You can also focus on other objects.  Your button script could say
>> "focus on me" and that would remove the focus from your field.
>
> Even simpler:
>
>   select empty
>
> :-)
>
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Dec  6 06:36:23 2008
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 12:36:23 +0100
Subject: unfocus field
In-Reply-To: <C55F7DA8.17CE8%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <C55F7DA8.17CE8%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <80CB9C73-8EAF-4707-9938-FA06EA46A5B5@major-k.de>

Hi Ken,

>> Hello Thomas,
>> You can also focus on other objects.  Your button script could say
>> "focus on me" and that would remove the focus from your field.
> Even simpler:
>   select empty
>
> :-)

Yep, but then you will also lose all current selected text and/or  
line(s) in list fields!

So "focus on whatever" may be preferrable ;-)

> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

Best

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de




From B.Cornaz at gmx.net  Sat Dec  6 07:56:57 2008
From: B.Cornaz at gmx.net (Beat Cornaz)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 13:56:57 +0100
Subject: externals
Message-ID: <40ffac48102f9ecd2e9edb6a7a16848a@gmx.net>

I started to learn to make externals and got puzzled by the following, 
which is from the Rev tutorials - Externals 1.
I don't understand the path order as suggested below, as this would 
mean that there are 'External' folders buried within 'External' folders 
4 folders deep.
  I am sure that this is wrong, but how should it be?

My guess would be :
My Revolution /
Externals/
Runtime/

Windows/
x86-32

  Mac OS X/
Universal
  PowerPC-32
  x86-32

-- FROM the tutorial :
To do this, you will first want to build Release builds of your 
externals. In Visual Studio, simply choose the Release configuration 
from the drop-down list on the toolbar, while in XCode you need to 
switch to the build pane and choose one of Release, Release x86-32 or 
Release PowerPC-32.

When you have done this, all you need to do then is copy them into 
appropraite places in your Documents folder for Revolution to pick up 
next time it is launched. This can be done by creating the following 
hierarchy inside the standard Documents folder:
My Revolution /
Externals/
Runtime/
Windows/
x86-32/
Externals/
  Mac OS X/
Universal/
Externals/
  PowerPC-32/
Externals/
  x86-32/
Externals/



Then inside each Externals folder, put the appropriate build of the 
external along with a text file called Externals.txt. The externals.txt 
file is return-delimited list of pairs:

,

For example for rnahello on Windows the file should contains:

Hello External,rnahello.dll

Whereas on Mac OS X it should contain:

Hello External,rnahello.bundle


-- END tutorial

Also this last bit is not clear to me :
Does each Externals.text file contain :  1 line with ????  & comma & 
the name of the external & period bundle (or dll) ?
What should the ???? be and is the file a;lwys 1 line or more? If only 
1 line, then why is the file Return delimited and if more lines,
what to put in the other lines?


Has anyone followed through with the example from the tutorial 
Externals 2 (rnaEffect) with success?
I have done it 4 times now, but in Xcode 2.41 I keep getting 4 debug 
errors and and an additional 2 Release errors (which might be caused
by the incorrect folderpaths (the first part of my question).


Thanks for any help.

Beat



From geradamas at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  6 08:40:15 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 05:40:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [OT] Ubuntu 8.10: headaches and nothing else.
Message-ID: <572580.75735.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Talking about reinventing the wheel . . . I tried to install Ubuntu 8.10
on a Pentium 4, 1.7 GHz, 256 RAM and got the "black screen of death":

subsequently found out 2 things:

1. This is an all-too-common problem.

2. Ubuntu have not responded to all the piles and piles of moans
about this fact.

Now installing 8.04

But it looks as if Ubuntu has had its day; or, maybe this is a sneaky
signal that it is about to go commercial?????

A similar thing has happened with many people who have upgraded from 
8.40 to 8.10 over the internet.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From nealk3nc at gmail.com  Sat Dec  6 10:30:38 2008
From: nealk3nc at gmail.com (Neal Campbell)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 10:30:38 -0500
Subject: Rev On Rockets On Dreamhost - Does it work there?
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c55fb4689a28@192.168.1.105>
References: <p06240802c55fb4689a28@192.168.1.105>
Message-ID: <325413300812060730r6805695wca3146b69f02bebd@mail.gmail.com>

Just make sure you set the execute bits (chmod +xxx .....) so that it
can be a program!

Best wishes
Neal Campbell
Abroham Neal Software
Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux
(540) 242 0911
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Try Spot for OS X, the intelligent DXCluster Client at
www.abrohamnealsoftware.com -  $15.99
-------------------------------------------------
For a great dog book, visit www.abrohamneal.com
-------------------------------------------------
See the FlexRadio Systems Flex-5000a in
action at www.flex-videos.com




On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 11:47 PM, Stephen Barncard
<stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com> wrote:
> Hi Mark,
>
> No, ROR doesn't require RevHTTP. I'm not using that part of the
> demonstration. I've seen and tried that, and wanted to get it into the
> Apache world.
>
> I'm strictly following Andre's instructions and can't even get <hello world>
> to work. He did it in front of people and video at the last RevCon. Thanks
> for the thumbs up on the 3.0 engine. Perhaps I made a mistake in engine.
> I'll try again.
> thanks
>
> sqb
>
>> Stephen, I've not run RoR, but I am having no problems running the 3.0
>> engine (Linux of course) for cgi on Dreamhost. Does RoR act as web-server?
>> Would that mean disabling Apache?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Mark
>
> --
>
>
> stephen barncard
> s a n  f r a n c i s c o
> - - -  - - - - - - - - -
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From toolbook at kestner.de  Sat Dec  6 11:37:18 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 17:37:18 +0100
Subject: AW: How to detect a CD Drive / write permissions?
In-Reply-To: <C55F68AC.17CDF%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <C9F7E8D76B2A41198646362087340881@Kestner.local>

Hi Ken,
Mac and Win. Obviously there is no native Rev function, do you have snippets
how to ask the shell for it?
Thank you
Tiemo

> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-
> bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Ken Ray
> Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Dezember 2008 06:24
> An: Use Revolution List
> Betreff: Re: How to detect a CD Drive / write permissions?
> 
> 
>  didn't found the answer in the archives, though it seems to be very
> > standard.
> >
> > 1. How to test If I have write permissions on a dir?
> >
> > 2. How can I detect, if a volume is a HD or CD/DVD?
> 
> What platform(s) do you need this info for?
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Dec  6 11:40:42 2008
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 17:40:42 +0100
Subject: AW: How to detect a CD Drive / write permissions?
In-Reply-To: <C9F7E8D76B2A41198646362087340881@Kestner.local>
References: <C9F7E8D76B2A41198646362087340881@Kestner.local>
Message-ID: <42A1F527-4A50-4FD1-9FD9-62A3D4532E09@major-k.de>

Hi Tiemo,

> Hi Ken,
> Mac and Win. Obviously there is no native Rev function, do you have  
> snippets
> how to ask the shell for it?

Please take a look at this thread in the "Windows" section of the Rev- 
forum:
http://forums.runrev.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2357

There you wil find some vbscript snippets that you can adapt and then  
"do xxx as vbscript".

Hope that helps.

> Thank you
> Tiemo

Best

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de




From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Sat Dec  6 11:40:42 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 08:40:42 -0800
Subject: Rev On Rockets On Dreamhost - Does it work there?
In-Reply-To: <325413300812060730r6805695wca3146b69f02bebd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <p06240802c55fb4689a28@192.168.1.105>
	<325413300812060730r6805695wca3146b69f02bebd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c56055e384f7@[192.168.1.105]>

thanks, Neal and everyone else who responded,
I couldn't forget the permissions after Andre said on the Revcon 
video "I almost had a t-shirt made with < chmod 755 > in big letters 
so you won't forget!"

I still can't get a rise out of the executable, except errors.

echo.mt (from Jacque's site, changed to echo.cgi) doesn't seem to 
respond as well as ROR not responding. I've tried the 2.9, 3.0 and 
3.5 Linux 86 engines. I'll be sure to let everyone know what it is if 
I find it. This is basic stuff, it should work. I'm still blaming the 
operator here.

>This is the only clue in the logs:
>suexec policy violation: see suexec log for more details, referer: 
>http://cms3.mitchmarcusmusic.com/


There doesn't appear to be any such suexec log, at least at my 
security level. That kinda <looks> like a permission problem..

Once I get it to "say hello" I'm on my way.

sqb

>Just make sure you set the execute bits (chmod +xxx .....) so that it
>can be a program!
>
>Best wishes
>Neal Campbell
>Abroham Neal Software
>Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux
>(540) 242 0911

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -





From nealk3nc at gmail.com  Sat Dec  6 11:51:05 2008
From: nealk3nc at gmail.com (Neal Campbell)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 11:51:05 -0500
Subject: Rev On Rockets On Dreamhost - Does it work there?
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c56055e384f7@192.168.1.105>
References: <p06240802c55fb4689a28@192.168.1.105>
	<325413300812060730r6805695wca3146b69f02bebd@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240800c56055e384f7@192.168.1.105>
Message-ID: <325413300812060851j6ca7c0a1h814022a70e2c59fd@mail.gmail.com>

Sulinux is the secure kernel for your instance of Linux. You  might
want to google around and see if you can learn more about it and what
you can do around it! If all else fails, contact your ISP!

Neal Campbell
Abroham Neal Software
Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux
(540) 242 0911
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Try Spot for OS X, the intelligent DXCluster Client at
www.abrohamnealsoftware.com -  $15.99
-------------------------------------------------
For a great dog book, visit www.abrohamneal.com
-------------------------------------------------
See the FlexRadio Systems Flex-5000a in
action at www.flex-videos.com




On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Stephen Barncard
<stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com> wrote:
> thanks, Neal and everyone else who responded,
> I couldn't forget the permissions after Andre said on the Revcon video "I
> almost had a t-shirt made with < chmod 755 > in big letters so you won't
> forget!"
>
> I still can't get a rise out of the executable, except errors.
>
> echo.mt (from Jacque's site, changed to echo.cgi) doesn't seem to respond as
> well as ROR not responding. I've tried the 2.9, 3.0 and 3.5 Linux 86
> engines. I'll be sure to let everyone know what it is if I find it. This is
> basic stuff, it should work. I'm still blaming the operator here.
>
>> This is the only clue in the logs:
>> suexec policy violation: see suexec log for more details, referer:
>> http://cms3.mitchmarcusmusic.com/
>
>
> There doesn't appear to be any such suexec log, at least at my security
> level. That kinda <looks> like a permission problem..
>
> Once I get it to "say hello" I'm on my way.
>
> sqb
>
>> Just make sure you set the execute bits (chmod +xxx .....) so that it
>> can be a program!
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Neal Campbell
>> Abroham Neal Software
>> Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux
>> (540) 242 0911
>
> --
>
>
> stephen barncard
> s a n  f r a n c i s c o
> - - -  - - - - - - - - -
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Sat Dec  6 11:50:45 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 08:50:45 -0800
Subject: AW: How to detect a CD Drive / write permissions?
In-Reply-To: <C9F7E8D76B2A41198646362087340881@Kestner.local>
References: <C9F7E8D76B2A41198646362087340881@Kestner.local>
Message-ID: <p06240801c5605cc922ae@[192.168.1.105]>

On MacOSX, perhaps    drutil     can work for you

Usage: drutil -drive [drive-arguments] command [command-options-and-arguments]
drutil commands are:
atip - Displays ATIP information about inserted CD-R/RW media.
bulkerase - Bulk erases -RW media in either quick or full mode. 
drutil bulkerase (quick | full)
burn - Burns a given file or directory to disc. drutil burn 
(burn-options) <path>
cdtext - Displays CD-Text present on an audio CD.
discinfo - Displays disc related info when media is present.
dumpiso - Parses ISO-9660 directory structures. drutil dumpiso 
<devnode> <block> [format]
dumpudf - Parses UDF directory structures. drutil dumpudf <devnode> 
<block> [format]
eject - Ejects media from the drive (if any).
erase - Erases -RW media in either quick or full mode. drutil erase 
(quick | full)
filename - Translates filenames for different filesystems. drutil 
filename <name>
getconfig - Displays current and supported device features and 
profiles. drutil getconfig (current | supported)
info - Displays detailed information about connected drives.
list - Lists all connected burning devices.
poll - Constantly polls and displays device notifications.
status - Displays detailed information about inserted media.
subchannel - Displays subchannel (MCN, ISRC) info when CD media is present.
toc - Displays TOC information about inserted CD media.
trackinfo - Displays track related info when media is present.
tray - Opens and closes drive tray, and ejects media. drutil tray 
(open | close | eject)
version - Display the OS and DiscRecording version numbers.


>Hi Ken,
>Mac and Win. Obviously there is no native Rev function, do you have snippets
>how to ask the shell for it?
>Thank you
>Tiemo
>

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -




From sims at ezpzapps.com  Sat Dec  6 12:10:48 2008
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim Sims)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 18:10:48 +0100
Subject: Rev On Rockets On Dreamhost - Does it work there?
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c56055e384f7@[192.168.1.105]>
References: <p06240802c55fb4689a28@192.168.1.105>
	<325413300812060730r6805695wca3146b69f02bebd@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240800c56055e384f7@[192.168.1.105]>
Message-ID: <668FE4AD-C363-463D-9179-B38B83D87BBD@ezpzapps.com>


On Dec 6, 2008, at 5:40 PM, Stephen Barncard wrote:

> thanks, Neal and everyone else who responded,
> I couldn't forget the permissions after Andre said on the Revcon  
> video "I almost had a t-shirt made with < chmod 755 > in big letters  
> so you won't forget!"

I had a nightmare of getting a tattoo with 755   ;-)

>
>
> I still can't get a rise out of the executable, except errors.


Does it need    -ui

Like the following?

#!XhoutOut -ui

on startup
     library "makealert.rev"
end startup

sims


From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Sat Dec  6 12:15:43 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 09:15:43 -0800
Subject: Rev On Rockets On Dreamhost - Does it work there?
In-Reply-To: <668FE4AD-C363-463D-9179-B38B83D87BBD@ezpzapps.com>
References: <p06240802c55fb4689a28@192.168.1.105>
	<325413300812060730r6805695wca3146b69f02bebd@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240800c56055e384f7@[192.168.1.105]>
	<668FE4AD-C363-463D-9179-B38B83D87BBD@ezpzapps.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c5606325a04c@[192.168.1.105]>

Thanks Jim,

yes I checked and of course ROR has it everywhere.   I did add it to 
the old  echo.mc script ( and changed the suffix to .cgi ).

I'm writing a report to DH support.   I'll let everyone know how it went.

sqb


>On Dec 6, 2008, at 5:40 PM, Stephen Barncard wrote:
>
>>thanks, Neal and everyone else who responded,
>>I couldn't forget the permissions after Andre said on the Revcon 
>>video "I almost had a t-shirt made with < chmod 755 > in big 
>>letters so you won't forget!"
>
>I had a nightmare of getting a tattoo with 755   ;-)
>
>>
>>
>>I still can't get a rise out of the executable, except errors.
>
>
>Does it need    -ui
>
>Like the following?
>
>#!XhoutOut -ui
>
>on startup
>     library "makealert.rev"
>end startup
>
>sims

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -





From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Dec  6 12:23:07 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 09:23:07 -0800
Subject: Rev On Rockets On Dreamhost - Does it work there?
Message-ID: <493AB4FB.2020006@fourthworld.com>

I run Rev CGIs on Dreamhost daily.  Once you find the culprit you'll 
have a great time.

Have you checked your error.log from the server's logs folder?

I write my CGIs in a simple stack I made for doing so, which has a 
button to upload the script so I take care of several small steps in one 
click.

A few weeks ago I had trouble debugging a script's execution on the 
server, and added another button that downloads my error.log file and 
displays its contents - total time-saver, well worth the five minutes to 
set it up.


The truth is out there - you just need to find where it's being reported. :)

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Sat Dec  6 12:47:31 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 09:47:31 -0800
Subject: Rev On Rockets On Dreamhost - Does it work there?
In-Reply-To: <493AB4FB.2020006@fourthworld.com>
References: <493AB4FB.2020006@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <p06240803c56068b0eceb@[192.168.1.105]>

Thanks Richard. That's good to know.

Yes, I've been looking at the logs and I always get this error:

>suexec policy violation: see suexec log for more details, referer: 
>http://cms3.mitchmarcusmusic.com/

I have no suexec log.

the only other error is the error for not having the error page!
I've sent a support ticket to the Dreamhost techs, they're pretty 
good about things.

You're idea for the send script to and return logs is a good one. 
I'll incorporate that into my future cgi sandbox.

By the way, doesn't FTP in Rev send passwords in plain text? How do 
you work around that?

sqb

>I run Rev CGIs on Dreamhost daily.  Once you find the culprit you'll 
>have a great time.
>
>Have you checked your error.log from the server's logs folder?
>
>I write my CGIs in a simple stack I made for doing so, which has a 
>button to upload the script so I take care of several small steps in 
>one click.
>
>A few weeks ago I had trouble debugging a script's execution on the 
>server, and added another button that downloads my error.log file 
>and displays its contents - total time-saver, well worth the five 
>minutes to set it up.
>
>
>The truth is out there - you just need to find where it's being reported. :)
>
>--
>  Richard Gaskin

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -





From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Dec  6 12:49:22 2008
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 09:49:22 -0800
Subject: Newbie
In-Reply-To: <49396F01.30504@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <6C55F4BE.9D06.46AB.8849.334C2262CC47@aol.com>
	<49396F01.30504@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <147330641781.20081206094922@ahsoftware.net>

Craig-

>> How do you live without Rinaldi? I know that it is possible to work
>> around anything, one always could. But I am going to miss "fullFind".

I haven't *seen* Rinaldi physically in about four years, but he's
still lurking around these parts.

> I have only needed an external once in all the years I've been using
> Rev, and that was for a very specialized application. All the other 

A lot of the stuff we used to have to do with externals back in the
day are now in the rev engine. And the stuff we used to put in
externals for speed are now fast enough in the engine that it's now
mostly no longer necessary unless you've got specialized hardware or
software to talk to.

-- 
 -Mark Wieder
  mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Sat Dec  6 13:16:20 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 10:16:20 -0800
Subject: Rinaldi and Rev Speed wuz Re: Newbie
In-Reply-To: <147330641781.20081206094922@ahsoftware.net>
References: <6C55F4BE.9D06.46AB.8849.334C2262CC47@aol.com>
	<49396F01.30504@hyperactivesw.com>
	<147330641781.20081206094922@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <p06240804c5606c9dd876@[192.168.1.105]>

The speed thing is really true with Rev. When I started experimenting 
with Rev in late 2001 on Mac OS9, I wasted a whole lot of time 
worrying if my old XCMDs would run in the environment. I was just 
familiar with the way I always did it -- HC for the front end, XCMDs 
to do the heavy lifting. Then I did a little text manipulation and 
was amazed at how fast it was.

Like many in the day, I was trying to make HC stacks function like 
applications, and  Mr. Rinaldi gave away, for free, many, many 
extensions that made our stacks actually do that. I had every one. 
And the guy didn't even have a donation scheme. There were many other 
authors of XCMDs but he was the most prolific (Although looking back 
at Eric Chatonet's history, we see that same kind of generosity and 
numerous HC stacks -- I have all those too.).

Of course, there were many other great products that enabled us - 
like Compilit, X-App, Windowscript, and Tom Pitman's PrintReport, 
which had features only now rivaled by Rev, 20 years later.

>Craig-
>
>>>  How do you live without Rinaldi? I know that it is possible to work
>>>  around anything, one always could. But I am going to miss "fullFind".
>
>I haven't *seen* Rinaldi physically in about four years, but he's
>still lurking around these parts.
>
>>  I have only needed an external once in all the years I've been using
>>  Rev, and that was for a very specialized application. All the other
>
>A lot of the stuff we used to have to do with externals back in the
>day are now in the rev engine. And the stuff we used to put in
>externals for speed are now fast enough in the engine that it's now
>mostly no longer necessary unless you've got specialized hardware or
>software to talk to.
>
>--
>  -Mark Wieder
>   mwieder at ahsoftware.net

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -





From sundown at pacifier.com  Sat Dec  6 14:15:38 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 11:15:38 -0800
Subject: writing lines to the driver
In-Reply-To: <E96D3836-585F-4693-9AF9-6A3B3F6D9F73@pacifier.com>
References: <E96D3836-585F-4693-9AF9-6A3B3F6D9F73@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <BDCE8291-EF74-4487-9DF2-1890B6D79531@pacifier.com>

Something really strange is happening.

The driver I was writing to mentioned below is the internal modem on  
a Mac G4 AGP.
You use the AT commands to control the modem.

I used to be able to enter AT&V and then it would put the  
configuration into a field.
The configuration consists of a number of lines of text but not  
extremely large.

Now when I enter the AT&V command it puts about nine lines of text  
into the field
and then Rev crashes.  If I use this program on another machine I  
have and enter
the AT&V command it puts the configuration into the field like the  
first Mac used
to do.  But when I copy the text in the field it was put in Rev crashes.

This looks to me like some memory/buffer management problems with Rev  
to me
but I really don't know what it is.  Why did the first Mac used to  
list the configuration
without any problem and now only list part of it then crashes Rev?  I  
have not made
any changes to my knowledge that would cause this.  And why can't the  
other Mac
copy a small amount of text after writing the AT&V command to the  
driver?

-=>JB<=-



On Dec 5, 2008, at 11:29 AM, -= JB =- wrote:

> When I open a driver port I am able to write to the driver and  
> close the port without any problems.
> I can open the driver port and write to the driver 9 times writing  
> one line at a time no problems.
> After I write the 10th line to the driver Rev crashes.
> If I close the port after writing line 9 to the driver I can write  
> to the driver 9 more times.
>
> The line can have a few chars or a large line of text and the crash  
> still comes after writing to the
> driver 9 times.
>
> How can I clear any buffer or whatever is doing the counting  
> without closing the port and the
> needing to reopen the port to keep writing lines to the driver?
>
> -=>JB<=-
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sat Dec  6 14:18:41 2008
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 14:18:41 -0500
Subject: unfocus field
In-Reply-To: <FC67EA76-9AC6-4070-AA52-E0F71BAF251E@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <C55F7DA8.17CE8%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<FC67EA76-9AC6-4070-AA52-E0F71BAF251E@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <A4AD3300-E350-4CC6-A02A-8CBF1B83181C@mangomultimedia.com>

On Dec 6, 2008, at 3:23 AM, Scott Morrow wrote:

> Rats... I knew that but got stuck on focus... and "focus on empty"  
> doesn't cut it!  :  )

But 'focus on nothing' does :-) This was added in 2.9. It is great  
because it will remove focus from whatever object has focus. 'select  
empty' only works if a field has focus.

Regards,

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Learning Systems
ScreenSteps: http://www.screensteps.com
Developer Resources: http://revolution.bluemangolearning.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Dec  6 14:30:52 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 11:30:52 -0800
Subject: Rev On Rockets On Dreamhost - Does it work there?
References: 493AB4FB.2020006@fourthworld.com
Message-ID: <493AD2EC.1050508@fourthworld.com>

Stephen Barncard wrote:
> By the way, doesn't FTP in Rev send passwords in plain text? How do 
> you work around that?

Until Rev supports secure FTP there is no preventative solution.  So I
handle it as I do when using many other tools that don't provide secure
FTP: I change my site's password weekly, and monitor the site for
changed files daily.

Of course the best answer would be to support secure FTP:

<http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=6405>

This wouldn't affect just those of us who make little tools for
ourselves, but our customers as well, so overall we're looking at the
security of tens of thousands of people hanging on this.

I understand that it's challenging to implement, and not the sort of
thing likely to be personally satisfying to work on.  But I'd pay extra
for it to see it in the engine and I'll be others would too.

With 108 votes thus far, if we each chipped in US$100 for this that
would be $10,800 in supplemental revenue.  It'd be well worth a hundred
bucks to me to be able to offer good security to my customers and clients.

In the meantime, I've been considering ways to use POST as an
alternative, but there are so many limitations with it that I don't
imagine it'll be much of a substitute except for a few limited
circumstances.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com




From sundown at pacifier.com  Sat Dec  6 14:32:15 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 11:32:15 -0800
Subject: writing lines to the driver
In-Reply-To: <BDCE8291-EF74-4487-9DF2-1890B6D79531@pacifier.com>
References: <E96D3836-585F-4693-9AF9-6A3B3F6D9F73@pacifier.com>
	<BDCE8291-EF74-4487-9DF2-1890B6D79531@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <111C43CA-3804-48B3-BCCA-D314B6723807@pacifier.com>

I solved the problem and it was a minor change I made to my code that
caused it.

I was doing some testing with reading the port and how to determine the
end and then forgot I changed it.  This is based on Sarah's readPort and
I originally used until recEOL but changed it to EOF (end of file) to  
test &
my change caused the problems.

read from driver thePort until recEOL
     --read from driver thePort until EOF

-=>JB<=-



On Dec 6, 2008, at 11:15 AM, -= JB =- wrote:

> Something really strange is happening.
>
> The driver I was writing to mentioned below is the internal modem  
> on a Mac G4 AGP.
> You use the AT commands to control the modem.
>
> I used to be able to enter AT&V and then it would put the  
> configuration into a field.
> The configuration consists of a number of lines of text but not  
> extremely large.
>
> Now when I enter the AT&V command it puts about nine lines of text  
> into the field
> and then Rev crashes.  If I use this program on another machine I  
> have and enter
> the AT&V command it puts the configuration into the field like the  
> first Mac used
> to do.  But when I copy the text in the field it was put in Rev  
> crashes.
>
> This looks to me like some memory/buffer management problems with  
> Rev to me
> but I really don't know what it is.  Why did the first Mac used to  
> list the configuration
> without any problem and now only list part of it then crashes Rev?   
> I have not made
> any changes to my knowledge that would cause this.  And why can't  
> the other Mac
> copy a small amount of text after writing the AT&V command to the  
> driver?
>
> -=>JB<=-
>
>
>
> On Dec 5, 2008, at 11:29 AM, -= JB =- wrote:
>
>> When I open a driver port I am able to write to the driver and  
>> close the port without any problems.
>> I can open the driver port and write to the driver 9 times writing  
>> one line at a time no problems.
>> After I write the 10th line to the driver Rev crashes.
>> If I close the port after writing line 9 to the driver I can write  
>> to the driver 9 more times.
>>
>> The line can have a few chars or a large line of text and the  
>> crash still comes after writing to the
>> driver 9 times.
>>
>> How can I clear any buffer or whatever is doing the counting  
>> without closing the port and the
>> needing to reopen the port to keep writing lines to the driver?
>>
>> -=>JB<=-
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From sundown at pacifier.com  Sat Dec  6 15:47:42 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 12:47:42 -0800
Subject: BinaryEncode
Message-ID: <A7356DAB-7EF6-4F77-A56A-5FA87FB0DE48@pacifier.com>

The Rev Dictionary provides info about  the BinaryEncode function and  
it mentions,

      use the BinaryEncode function to encode one or more values as  
binary data.

Does this mean I can put a whole field into the BinaryEncode function  
and encode it
and if so does someone have an example of using a whole field?


-=>JB<=-


From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Sat Dec  6 16:56:06 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 22:56:06 +0100
Subject: BinaryEncode
In-Reply-To: <A7356DAB-7EF6-4F77-A56A-5FA87FB0DE48@pacifier.com>
References: <A7356DAB-7EF6-4F77-A56A-5FA87FB0DE48@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <06ADFE88-1079-48AD-ABD9-C709B8D47A45@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi JB,

put binaryencode("h*",mySourceVar) into myDestVar
get binaryDecode("h*",myDestVar,mySourceVar)

What kind of data do you want to encode and what do you want to do  
with it?

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

Color Converter has been updated! Get it at
http://colorconverter.economy-x-talk.com !

On 6 dec 2008, at 21:47, -= JB =- wrote:

> The Rev Dictionary provides info about  the BinaryEncode function  
> and it mentions,
>
>     use the BinaryEncode function to encode one or more values as  
> binary data.
>
> Does this mean I can put a whole field into the BinaryEncode  
> function and encode it
> and if so does someone have an example of using a whole field?
>
>
> -=>JB<=-




From mikeythek at gmail.com  Sat Dec  6 17:00:15 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 17:00:15 -0500
Subject: [OT] Ubuntu 8.10: headaches and nothing else.
In-Reply-To: <572580.75735.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <572580.75735.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812061400m596ed374s6da30f3236a803c@mail.gmail.com>

I'm a Hardy->Intrepid survivor, so here goes

As someone who has gone through a variety of issues with a Hardy to
Intrepid upgrade (I started a thread on the Ubuntuforums about it),
the most common problem is with unused package uninstalls.  If toward
the end of the Intrepid upgrade you answer "yes" to "uninstall unused
packages" (or whatever the question is), you are faced with a variety
of woes, and most of them are bad.  What winds up happening is that
necessary packages for Intrepid are not installed, either, and you
wind up with mush that you have to bootstrap back up.  It can be done
(I did it, and I figured most of it out myself because I wanted to
learn how to do it), but by far the easiest thing to do is to do a
fresh install of Intrepid over Hardy after making a boot/install CD.

Things that were also recommended:

1) Make a separate partition for GRUB (HIGHLY, HIGHLY, HIGHLY recommended).
2) Have separate partitions for each major release that you're using
(also highly recommended)
3) put /home in its own partition (recommended, with some reservations
- fresh installs with old setting files - it's just like using 3.0 and
2.9 on the same stacks - sometimes things don't go well)
4) consider putting /usr/bin in its own partition (I think it's
/usr/bin - where you put applications that you install, isn't it?  I
forgot).  I haven't done this yet but it makes sense, and I will do it
with my new box when it arrives.


I have not gone back to Hardy since (finally) successfully upgrading
to Intrepid.  I've only visited Vista once or twice since doing it,
too.

Don't go it the long way and try to fix your Intrepid install.  Just
do it from scratch.  It doesn't take that long, it's a lot less
hassle, and it actually works better (there are drivers that get
installed with the fresh install that don't come even with the upgrade
that doesn't break your box).


As you know, Ubuntu is not for wimps.  There are things that still
don't work after three releases (Gusty, Hardy, Intrepid), for example,
wireless can be hit or miss.  However, as you also know, it's
screaming fast and the eye candy doesn't suck either.


From mikeythek at gmail.com  Sat Dec  6 17:01:58 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 17:01:58 -0500
Subject: [OT] Ubuntu 8.10: headaches and nothing else.
In-Reply-To: <9b408d8e0812061400m596ed374s6da30f3236a803c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <572580.75735.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<9b408d8e0812061400m596ed374s6da30f3236a803c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812061401y28935294nf82a5a41a4549078@mail.gmail.com>

Something that I also tried that doesn't work as well is putting /boot
in it's own partition.  After fiddling and fighting with it, what I
really wanted to do, and finally settled on doing, was putting GRUB in
it's own partition, and letting each distro have its own /boot
directory.


From sundown at pacifier.com  Sat Dec  6 17:14:37 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 14:14:37 -0800
Subject: BinaryEncode
In-Reply-To: <06ADFE88-1079-48AD-ABD9-C709B8D47A45@economy-x-talk.com>
References: <A7356DAB-7EF6-4F77-A56A-5FA87FB0DE48@pacifier.com>
	<06ADFE88-1079-48AD-ABD9-C709B8D47A45@economy-x-talk.com>
Message-ID: <F6EE151B-3C28-48B7-ADD9-8ACE76A21906@pacifier.com>

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the info!

I am working on a communications program and was transferring files.
When I transfer a stack that I read as a binary that has been placed in
a field after I read it, the transfer has a problem.  Immediately it  
shows
the message box saying it is having trouble writing the file.  Then on
the receiving machine it receives only about 1/2 of the text sent.

I was thinking this might have to do with the wrong type of character
being sent so I thought this might put it in a form that would not cause
problems being sent to the driver.

-=>JB<=-



On Dec 6, 2008, at 1:56 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote:

> Hi JB,
>
> put binaryencode("h*",mySourceVar) into myDestVar
> get binaryDecode("h*",myDestVar,mySourceVar)
>
> What kind of data do you want to encode and what do you want to do  
> with it?
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Schonewille
>
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> http://economy-x-talk.com
> http://www.salery.biz
> Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum
>
> Color Converter has been updated! Get it at
> http://colorconverter.economy-x-talk.com !
>
> On 6 dec 2008, at 21:47, -= JB =- wrote:
>
>> The Rev Dictionary provides info about  the BinaryEncode function  
>> and it mentions,
>>
>>     use the BinaryEncode function to encode one or more values as  
>> binary data.
>>
>> Does this mean I can put a whole field into the BinaryEncode  
>> function and encode it
>> and if so does someone have an example of using a whole field?
>>
>>
>> -=>JB<=-
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From dunbarx at aol.com  Fri Dec  5 15:33:22 2008
From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:33:22 -0500
Subject: Newbie2
In-Reply-To: <49396F01.30504@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <02BC78D8.8694.46E2.90FF.EE0491A03D2E@aol.com>

Back in the day, HC listMembers had enormous patience with certain people. They were indulgent. Time will tell.

I have a variable "foo" ?(remember foo?) containing:

aabb
bbcc
ccdd
abc
bcd

and a script that has:


?? filter?foo?with "a*b"
?? answer?foo

I get empty in foo, when what I am looking for is a substitute for Rinaldi's "fullFind"

Changing the wildcard characters changes nothing. ?OK, what am I doing wrong?



On Dec 5, 2008, at 1:12:17 PM, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:
From:   "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
Subject:    Re: Newbie
Date:   December 5, 2008 1:12:17 PM EST
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
dunbarx wrote:
> Colin! Mark!
>?
> I feel better already. Is Catherine Kunicki here?

Hi Craig! Great to see you here. Don't think Cat's here. You should poke
her to join. :)

>?
> Mark, you are correct, it is intermittant. Now msg works fine. And I?
> see it tells you the current stack.
>?

As you noticed, there's a slight bug in the message box. But when it is
working properly you can click on the stack name, and select the stack
you want it to target from a popup list. That's a very nice feature.

> Great.
>?
> How do you live without Rinaldi? I know that it is possible to work?
> around anything, one always could. But I am going to miss "fullFind".
>?
>?

I have only needed an external once in all the years I've been using
Rev, and that was for a very specialized application. All the other?
stuff we used to use externals for is now built into the engine. I?
really doubt you'll ever need to implement an external. The language has?
3 or 4 times as many commands and functions as you-know-what. ;)

FullFind can be replaced with the "filter" command, or by using any one
of the various offset functions. If you choose to use offset, be sure to
use the "skip" parameter or else you will be searching the same text
repeatedly.

--?
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From sundown at pacifier.com  Sat Dec  6 17:35:22 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 14:35:22 -0800
Subject: BinaryEncode
In-Reply-To: <06ADFE88-1079-48AD-ABD9-C709B8D47A45@economy-x-talk.com>
References: <A7356DAB-7EF6-4F77-A56A-5FA87FB0DE48@pacifier.com>
	<06ADFE88-1079-48AD-ABD9-C709B8D47A45@economy-x-talk.com>
Message-ID: <1D7FA1F3-27A6-48C7-A2B6-D1D31A1448F5@pacifier.com>

Hi Mark,

When I try the code below I get an error dialog.

on mouseUp
     put "Hello Mark" into theData
     put binaryencode("h*",theData) into dataEncoded
     put dataEncoded into fld id 1009
end mouseUp

Should I be able to put the encoded data in a field without
decoding it?  Any idea why this does not put something into
the field?

thanks,
-=>JB<=-



On Dec 6, 2008, at 1:56 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote:

> Hi JB,
>
> put binaryencode("h*",mySourceVar) into myDestVar
> get binaryDecode("h*",myDestVar,mySourceVar)
>
> What kind of data do you want to encode and what do you want to do  
> with it?
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Schonewille
>
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> http://economy-x-talk.com
> http://www.salery.biz
> Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum
>
> Color Converter has been updated! Get it at
> http://colorconverter.economy-x-talk.com !
>
> On 6 dec 2008, at 21:47, -= JB =- wrote:
>
>> The Rev Dictionary provides info about  the BinaryEncode function  
>> and it mentions,
>>
>>     use the BinaryEncode function to encode one or more values as  
>> binary data.
>>
>> Does this mean I can put a whole field into the BinaryEncode  
>> function and encode it
>> and if so does someone have an example of using a whole field?
>>
>>
>> -=>JB<=-
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Sat Dec  6 17:53:08 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 23:53:08 +0100
Subject: BinaryEncode
In-Reply-To: <1D7FA1F3-27A6-48C7-A2B6-D1D31A1448F5@pacifier.com>
References: <A7356DAB-7EF6-4F77-A56A-5FA87FB0DE48@pacifier.com>
	<06ADFE88-1079-48AD-ABD9-C709B8D47A45@economy-x-talk.com>
	<1D7FA1F3-27A6-48C7-A2B6-D1D31A1448F5@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <34992F89-5F58-492A-B8FA-3CC883DE4992@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi JB,

BinaryEncode encodes data as binary data. BinaryDecode decodes binary  
data into something else, e.g. hex. You get an error because you are  
trying to encode data while indicating that you are using hex data,  
but you are using plain text (which you might assume to be binary).

Since you want to store your stack as non-binary in a field, you want  
to decode it, using

binaryDecode("h*",theBinaryData,myHexData)
put myHexData into fld id 1009

The reason why you're having problems is not that you're trying to  
transfer binary data, though. It is because you are trying to store  
binary data in a field. When you try to store binary data in a field  
and then retrieve it again, your data gets easily mixed up. If you  
store the data in a custom property instead of a field, it should work  
fine.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

Color Converter has been updated! Get it at
http://colorconverter.economy-x-talk.com !

On 6 dec 2008, at 23:35, -= JB =- wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> When I try the code below I get an error dialog.
>
> on mouseUp
>    put "Hello Mark" into theData
>    put binaryencode("h*",theData) into dataEncoded
>    put dataEncoded into fld id 1009
> end mouseUp
>
> Should I be able to put the encoded data in a field without
> decoding it?  Any idea why this does not put something into
> the field?
>
> thanks,
> -=>JB<=-
>
>
>
> On Dec 6, 2008, at 1:56 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote:
>
>> Hi JB,
>>
>> put binaryencode("h*",mySourceVar) into myDestVar
>> get binaryDecode("h*",myDestVar,mySourceVar)
>>
>> What kind of data do you want to encode and what do you want to do  
>> with it?
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Mark Schonewille
>>
>> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
>> http://economy-x-talk.com
>> http://www.salery.biz
>> Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum
>>
>> Color Converter has been updated! Get it at
>> http://colorconverter.economy-x-talk.com !
>>
>> On 6 dec 2008, at 21:47, -= JB =- wrote:
>>
>>> The Rev Dictionary provides info about  the BinaryEncode function  
>>> and it mentions,
>>>
>>>    use the BinaryEncode function to encode one or more values as  
>>> binary data.
>>>
>>> Does this mean I can put a whole field into the BinaryEncode  
>>> function and encode it
>>> and if so does someone have an example of using a whole field?
>>>
>>>
>>> -=>JB<=-
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From sundown at pacifier.com  Sat Dec  6 18:06:24 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 15:06:24 -0800
Subject: BinaryEncode
In-Reply-To: <34992F89-5F58-492A-B8FA-3CC883DE4992@economy-x-talk.com>
References: <A7356DAB-7EF6-4F77-A56A-5FA87FB0DE48@pacifier.com>
	<06ADFE88-1079-48AD-ABD9-C709B8D47A45@economy-x-talk.com>
	<1D7FA1F3-27A6-48C7-A2B6-D1D31A1448F5@pacifier.com>
	<34992F89-5F58-492A-B8FA-3CC883DE4992@economy-x-talk.com>
Message-ID: <FEE110B5-C6DE-49A9-9BFB-90017FB1D611@pacifier.com>

Hi Mark,

Thanks for all of the detailed info.

I have never used a custom property for anything yet even though I have
seen many people mention them.  Looks like I will be learning now.

thanks again, it will probably save me a ton of time now that I don't  
need
to look for the problem anymore.

-=>JB<=-



On Dec 6, 2008, at 2:53 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote:

> Hi JB,
>
> BinaryEncode encodes data as binary data. BinaryDecode decodes  
> binary data into something else, e.g. hex. You get an error because  
> you are trying to encode data while indicating that you are using  
> hex data, but you are using plain text (which you might assume to  
> be binary).
>
> Since you want to store your stack as non-binary in a field, you  
> want to decode it, using
>
> binaryDecode("h*",theBinaryData,myHexData)
> put myHexData into fld id 1009
>
> The reason why you're having problems is not that you're trying to  
> transfer binary data, though. It is because you are trying to store  
> binary data in a field. When you try to store binary data in a  
> field and then retrieve it again, your data gets easily mixed up.  
> If you store the data in a custom property instead of a field, it  
> should work fine.
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Schonewille
>
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> http://economy-x-talk.com
> http://www.salery.biz
> Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum
>
> Color Converter has been updated! Get it at
> http://colorconverter.economy-x-talk.com !
>
> On 6 dec 2008, at 23:35, -= JB =- wrote:
>
>> Hi Mark,
>>
>> When I try the code below I get an error dialog.
>>
>> on mouseUp
>>    put "Hello Mark" into theData
>>    put binaryencode("h*",theData) into dataEncoded
>>    put dataEncoded into fld id 1009
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> Should I be able to put the encoded data in a field without
>> decoding it?  Any idea why this does not put something into
>> the field?
>>
>> thanks,
>> -=>JB<=-
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 6, 2008, at 1:56 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote:
>>
>>> Hi JB,
>>>
>>> put binaryencode("h*",mySourceVar) into myDestVar
>>> get binaryDecode("h*",myDestVar,mySourceVar)
>>>
>>> What kind of data do you want to encode and what do you want to  
>>> do with it?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Mark Schonewille
>>>
>>> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
>>> http://economy-x-talk.com
>>> http://www.salery.biz
>>> Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum
>>>
>>> Color Converter has been updated! Get it at
>>> http://colorconverter.economy-x-talk.com !
>>>
>>> On 6 dec 2008, at 21:47, -= JB =- wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Rev Dictionary provides info about  the BinaryEncode  
>>>> function and it mentions,
>>>>
>>>>    use the BinaryEncode function to encode one or more values as  
>>>> binary data.
>>>>
>>>> Does this mean I can put a whole field into the BinaryEncode  
>>>> function and encode it
>>>> and if so does someone have an example of using a whole field?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -=>JB<=-
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Dec  6 18:16:05 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 15:16:05 -0800
Subject: Newbie2
Message-ID: <493B07B5.9030008@fourthworld.com>

dunbarx wrote:

 > I have a variable "foo"  (remember foo?) containing:
 >
 > aabb
 > bbcc
 > ccdd
 > abc
 > bcd
 >
 > and a script that has:
 >
 >
 >    filter foo with "a*b"
 >    answer foo
 >
 > I get empty in foo, when what I am looking for is a substitute
 > for Rinaldi's "fullFind"
 >
 > Changing the wildcard characters changes nothing.  OK, what am
 > I doing wrong?

When I run that I get:

   aabb

What does your full handler look like?


--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Dec  6 18:31:04 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 17:31:04 -0600
Subject: Newbie2
In-Reply-To: <02BC78D8.8694.46E2.90FF.EE0491A03D2E@aol.com>
References: <02BC78D8.8694.46E2.90FF.EE0491A03D2E@aol.com>
Message-ID: <493B0B38.2020303@hyperactivesw.com>

dunbarx wrote:
> Back in the day, HC listMembers had enormous patience with certain
> people. They were indulgent. Time will tell.

We're so indulgent you'll beg us to stop.

> I have a variable "foo"  (remember foo?) containing:
> 
> aabb
> bbcc
> ccdd
> abc
> bcd
> 
> and a script that has:
> 
> 
> filter foo with "a*b" answer foo
> 
> I get empty in foo, when what I am looking for is a substitute for
> Rinaldi's "fullFind"
> 
> Changing the wildcard characters changes nothing.  OK, what am I
> doing wrong?

If I filter with your example, I get "aabb" like Richard does. If you 
also want to retrive "abc" then you need to add another asterisk to 
account for the remaining characters in the string:

filter foo with "a*b*"

That catches both instances.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Sat Dec  6 19:09:54 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 16:09:54 -0800
Subject: Rev On Rockets On Dreamhost -FOLLOW UP
In-Reply-To: <493AD2EC.1050508@fourthworld.com>
References: 493AB4FB.2020006@fourthworld.com <493AD2EC.1050508@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <p06240806c560b6b9373e@[192.168.1.105]>

As promised, I'm here to report SUCCESS. All the words of wisdom from 
those of you who have responded have paid off. It appears to be my 
'afternoon of assumptions' in which the inter-dependent factors and 
lack of meaningful error messages I'm allowed to see, conspired to 
work against me in my quest for rev on the web.

         1st mistake.    Assuming that ROR had the -ui on each script file.

  I <thought> I saw that on a few cgi files I checked in ROR. Not 
true. The very first one, hello world was missing the all important 
-ui parameter at the top. So the correct startup should begin with


                          #!./revolution  -ui

on each cgi file. Strange that this important element was left out in 
the ROR package, and it was quite emphasized by Andre to be very 
important.



In my case it seems to be fine with an even shorter top line:


                          #!revolution -ui

          2nd mistake.   Assuming that all the permissions are set. 

I went over and over again with the Transmit tool and set the 
permissions of everybody to 755. For some reason it didn't stick. I 
feel like an idiot.

Of course the tech support guy kindly pointed me to the Wickipedia 
entry for  chmod in his response, complete with a dump of all the 
unchanged permissions in the directory. I'm still waiting to hear 
from him how I can get better error messages using rev.


      3rd mistake.  Assuming that the cgi files in ROR have the right 
line endings.

  Damn! I really trusted BBEdit to 'know' what to do when saving back 
to the server after editing.    Obviously that didn't work. The line 
endings to a Linux server need to be LF only.


  I also assumed the zip package was 'ready to go' in the Linux 
environment and I carefully FTPd the downloaded zip directly to a 
remote web folder, then used the shell to go in and unzip, rather 
than expanding on the Mac desktop (where it was zipped) and using a 
good FTP client to upload, the line endings would be automatically 
handled (perhaps Andre even warned about this in his presentation).
This is an old habit from installing web apps like Joomla and 
Gallery. I usually  try to expand on the server end. Less time to 
upload and theoretically less things to go wrong; a package  created 
in situ.

Andre, if I guess right, used stuffit on his local mac to make the 
zip file. And tested it of course by opening it up in a folder, and 
dropping the files into the excellent Interarchy which of course will 
handle line endings invisibly.

in the BBEdit prefs panel:  Text Files :

1. set the checkbox "Translate line breaks" to TRUE (checked)
2. set the default line breaks to UNIX (LF)

One of the main reasons I bought the Vegas Video pack was to see 
Andre deliver his lesson. What wonderful energy and brilliant ideas. 
I sure wish the video guys could have included screen shots at the 
presentation screen on the ROR  presentation though.  Kinda sad, 
since we have so much technology about. It really hard to watch 
anyone standing there with absolutely no breaks in the scene and at 
the same time  not see the stuff he's talking about.    I'm glad to 
have something, but ....

anyway, I got Rev on the web, rev on the web....


-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -




From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Sat Dec  6 20:47:32 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 20:47:32 -0500
Subject: unfocus field
In-Reply-To: <80CB9C73-8EAF-4707-9938-FA06EA46A5B5@major-k.de>
References: <C55F7DA8.17CE8%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<80CB9C73-8EAF-4707-9938-FA06EA46A5B5@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <5992D37D-E22A-4A1D-8AB2-F2B046650382@mac.com>

Actually in my case I do want any current selections to be lost i.e.  
not focused on or even an insertion point. I think I will go with the  
select empty and see how that works.

Thanks you guys....


Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html


On Dec 6, 2008, at 6:36 AM, Klaus Major wrote:

> Hi Ken,
>
>>> Hello Thomas,
>>> You can also focus on other objects.  Your button script could say
>>> "focus on me" and that would remove the focus from your field.
>> Even simpler:
>>  select empty
>>
>> :-)
>
> Yep, but then you will also lose all current selected text and/or  
> line(s) in list fields!
>
> So "focus on whatever" may be preferrable ;-)
>
>> Ken Ray
>> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
> Best
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> http://www.major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Sat Dec  6 20:53:35 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 20:53:35 -0500
Subject: unfocus field
In-Reply-To: <A4AD3300-E350-4CC6-A02A-8CBF1B83181C@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <C55F7DA8.17CE8%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<FC67EA76-9AC6-4070-AA52-E0F71BAF251E@elementarysoftware.com>
	<A4AD3300-E350-4CC6-A02A-8CBF1B83181C@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <04A33C93-9D24-4F8C-99D4-B258DE8B01B5@mac.com>

Focus on nothing - really does work. I could not find this in the  
dictionary on focus???

That does exactly what I need.... Thanks


Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html





On Dec 6, 2008, at 2:18 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> On Dec 6, 2008, at 3:23 AM, Scott Morrow wrote:
>
>> Rats... I knew that but got stuck on focus... and "focus on empty"  
>> doesn't cut it!  :  )
>
> But 'focus on nothing' does :-) This was added in 2.9. It is great  
> because it will remove focus from whatever object has focus. 'select  
> empty' only works if a field has focus.
>
> Regards,
>
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> Blue Mango Learning Systems
> ScreenSteps: http://www.screensteps.com
> Developer Resources: http://revolution.bluemangolearning.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Sat Dec  6 21:46:02 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 21:46:02 -0500
Subject: I've done something really cool
Message-ID: <A0A635C3-A6C9-4EAD-9ACD-E83D489D1A00@mac.com>

Well, guys I have been playing around ALOT lately (when I'm supposed  
to be working on another project). Anyway, I came up with something  
that I think is really cool. I mean really cool. It's blowing my socks  
off how cool this is.

So here's my question. You guys and gals have been so helpful to me  
over the past few years that I felt compelled to release my iTunes  
library for free under the MIT license as a small token of my  
gratitude to the people on this list. That said I would like to  
package this new very cool utility and make a little money from the  
effort. I am asking my peers what they think the best way to approach  
this is? Feel free to contact me off list, but I feel this problem  
might also be of interest to others.

Did I mention that this tool is very cool???

Thanks,

Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html







From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sat Dec  6 23:37:41 2008
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 23:37:41 -0500
Subject: unfocus field
In-Reply-To: <04A33C93-9D24-4F8C-99D4-B258DE8B01B5@mac.com>
References: <C55F7DA8.17CE8%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<FC67EA76-9AC6-4070-AA52-E0F71BAF251E@elementarysoftware.com>
	<A4AD3300-E350-4CC6-A02A-8CBF1B83181C@mangomultimedia.com>
	<04A33C93-9D24-4F8C-99D4-B258DE8B01B5@mac.com>
Message-ID: <598E59C7-86E5-48A5-89F1-B4F81ECD47CB@mangomultimedia.com>

On Dec 6, 2008, at 8:53 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Focus on nothing - really does work. I could not find this in the  
> dictionary on focus???

It doesn't seem like it made it into the dictionary. You can find info  
on it in the engine release notes that came with 2.9. I find it is  
always worth reading the notes that come with each engine. You will  
find all sorts of goodies.

Regards,

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Learning Systems
ScreenSteps: http://www.screensteps.com
Developer Resources: http://revolution.bluemangolearning.com


From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com  Sun Dec  7 01:20:05 2008
From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks)
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 22:20:05 -0800
Subject: Sqlite remotely
In-Reply-To: <C55D8C4C.284%hershf@rgllc.us>
References: <459b22a90812011816s28fa890ai78a6f0d8d99bd216@mail.gmail.com>
	<C55D8C4C.284%hershf@rgllc.us>
Message-ID: <AF56B3E8ACC648EB8E45E8A280662C25@GATEWAY>

> > Remotely? like multi-user on a server?
> Even a single user.
> And what's with multi? I understand that multi is not safe 
> like its stated on their website, but other then that?

There's nothing to stop you from opening an SQLite database remotely, but as
Kee and others have stated, SQLite was never designed for network use - that
is, secure, multi-user support. If your solution is unlikely ever to scale
to multi-user, then its not a bad choice for local storage. Clearly, I have
my own ideas about what makes a good database ;-)

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Dec  7 02:53:45 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 01:53:45 -0600
Subject: AW: How to detect a CD Drive / write permissions?
In-Reply-To: <C9F7E8D76B2A41198646362087340881@Kestner.local>
Message-ID: <C560DD29.17D53%kray@sonsothunder.com>


> Mac and Win. Obviously there is no native Rev function, do you have snippets
> how to ask the shell for it?

For Mac, you need to use the "system_profiler" shell command, pass it one of
the data types you're interested in, and then parse the result. I'm not sure
what Mac OSes you need to support, but here's the basics:

1) Get a list of existing datatypes on the current machine so you can know
which ones to check in subsequent commands:

    put shell("system_profiler -listDataTypes") into tTypesList

2) You'll need to look at a handful of the data types. For example, my setup
right now is a MacBook Pro with two external drives attached via USB and a
built in R/W CD/DVD. On *my* machine, you query:

  - the "SPParallelATADataType" to get data on any mounted CD or DVD in the
drive;

  - the "SPSerialATADataType" to get data on my internal hard drive;

  - and the "SPUSBDataType" to get data on the external hard drives.

The way you would call it is:

  put shell("system_profiler SPUSBDataType") into tUSBData

... and then parse that. You can get a bunch of data types together, but it
may make parsing difficult. But the way to do that is:

  put shell("system_profiler SPUSBDataType SPSerialATADataType") into tData

3) You can get more info on this command by typing "man system_profiler" in
the terminal on OS X.

As to Windows, there is a "driveType" property that you can query with a
VBScript, but it uses the "Scripting.FileSystemObject" object, which may
trigger virus protection software installed on the target machine. But if
you want to use it, here's the VBScript:
-------------
Dim tFSO, tDrive, tType, tDrivePath

'This is where you put in the drive letter you've parsed from a file path
Set tDrivePath = "C:"

Set tFSO = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")
Set tDrive = tFSO.GetDrive( tDrivePath)
Select Case tDrive.DriveType
    Case 0: tType = "Unknown"
    Case 1: tType = "Removable"
    Case 2: tType = "Fixed"
    Case 3: tType = "Network"
    Case 4: tType = "CD-ROM"
    Case 5: tType = "RAM Disk"
End Select

' If you're using Rev 3.0 or later, use this final line:
result = tType

' If you're using Rev 2.9 or earlier, use this line instead:
WScript.Echo tType
----------------

There may be another way to run this without using the
Scripting.FileSystemObject, but the only other way I've used is to wrap this
code into a DLL, register the DLL and then call on the *DLL* from VBScript.

Anyway, hope this helps,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Dec  7 02:57:44 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 01:57:44 -0600
Subject: Rinaldi and Rev Speed wuz Re: Newbie
In-Reply-To: <p06240804c5606c9dd876@[192.168.1.105]>
Message-ID: <C560DE18.17D56%kray@sonsothunder.com>


> The speed thing is really true with Rev. When I started experimenting
> with Rev in late 2001 on Mac OS9, I wasted a whole lot of time
> worrying if my old XCMDs would run in the environment. I was just
> familiar with the way I always did it -- HC for the front end, XCMDs
> to do the heavy lifting. Then I did a little text manipulation and
> was amazed at how fast it was.

Amen, Stephen, that's the way it was, back in the day...

> Of course, there were many other great products that enabled us -
> like Compilit, X-App, Windowscript, and Tom Pitman's PrintReport,
> which had features only now rivaled by Rev, 20 years later.

True; one minor correct, though... Tom Pittman was the author of Compile-It,
while John Nairn was the author of PrintReport (IIRC).

Boy, that brings back memories...

:-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Dec  7 04:41:58 2008
From: palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk (Peter Alcibiades)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 01:41:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [OT] Ubuntu 8.10: headaches and nothing else.
In-Reply-To: <572580.75735.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <572580.75735.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20879415.post@talk.nabble.com>


All this is a reason for going with Debian proper rather than Ubuntu.  You
get continuous upgrades.  Whereas Ubuntu, you have Debian in the background,
but you have to do clean re-installs every time you do a major upgrade.  So
with Ubuntu, you have all the disadvantages of Debian and none of the
advantages. 

If going with a release type upgrade, there is a lot to be said for Mandriva
or PCLinux.  2008.1 was a pretty good release of Mandriva, and you can
choose from KDE 3 or Gnome in the One versions.  2009 is KDE 4.1, so its
probably worth waiting a while for a KDE 4.2 release, as lots of stuff is
still incompatible and there is still a bit of work to be done on usability.
Mandriva updates, you can just clean install without formatting /home, and
its pretty reliable.

If going with a Debian derivative there is a lot to be said for Mepis, which
does do continuous upgrades. I would go with Debian Etch by the way, if
going to Debian - there is no percentage in even going with Lenny until it
becomes Stable.

On older machines, there's a lot to be said for Zenwalk.  Xfce & Slackware
based.  Or Debian with Fluxbox.

The blackout might be a misconfigured xorg issue.  I've met this with
installing Lenny.  Problem is that dpkg-reconfigure does not seem to give
you proper access to the xorg parameters in their currently packaged version
of xorg, so this means editing xorg.conf by hand, which is no fun - and I
could not make even this work last time.

On /home and partitions, yes, /home should always be a separate partition. 
If you have configuration problems, dpkg-reconfigure.  I can't see any
reason to have /usr/bin on a separate partition.  It used to be recommended
to put /usr on a separate partition, but I always thought it more trouble
than its worth.  Still less reason to put Grub on one.  What does this get
you?
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/-OT--Ubuntu-8.10%3A-headaches-and-nothing-else.-tp20870256p20879415.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From bvg at mac.com  Sun Dec  7 04:42:51 2008
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 10:42:51 +0100
Subject: variable storage
In-Reply-To: <A366FCA1-5E2A-4D8D-B438-595BB32AB700@mac.com>
References: <4938B786.1090008@fourthworld.com>
	<252EE006-6C1A-47B7-97FC-6FE8518C7B37@mac.com>
	<A366FCA1-5E2A-4D8D-B438-595BB32AB700@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BE56A463-03AD-4362-BD9A-5282E45633CA@mac.com>

I made an enhancement request:
http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=7518

I  also filed a docu bug, as the dictionary is wrong about what "the  
properties" will return:
http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=7519

Bj?rnke

On 5 Dec 2008, at 15:25, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> I think you should file an Enhancement Request for this. I would if  
> I had the time. This is the second gotcha I hit since I started this  
> project.
>
> I think the thing that hit me on this was the antialiased property.  
> So maybe a custom function might do the trick.
>
> On Dec 5, 2008, at 7:19 AM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:
>
>> The properties contains the ID, but not the antialiased. ...

>> ...in fact, there is no way to get all changeable properties (or  
>> every unchangeable property a single object may have) at once,  
>> without creating a custom collection function.


From rmicout at online.fr  Sun Dec  7 05:41:18 2008
From: rmicout at online.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Micout?=)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 11:41:18 +0100
Subject: Rinaldi and Rev Speed wuz Re: Newbie
In-Reply-To: <C560DE18.17D56%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <C560DE18.17D56%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <B0C0520D-4BC5-474B-8973-2F3E0FFFB361@online.fr>

... and Leonard Buck > Windowscript... > :-)

Ren? from Paris

Le 7 d?c. 08 ? 08:57, Ken Ray a ?crit :

>
>> The speed thing is really true with Rev. When I started experimenting
>> with Rev in late 2001 on Mac OS9, I wasted a whole lot of time
>> worrying if my old XCMDs would run in the environment. I was just
>> familiar with the way I always did it -- HC for the front end, XCMDs
>> to do the heavy lifting. Then I did a little text manipulation and
>> was amazed at how fast it was.
>
> Amen, Stephen, that's the way it was, back in the day...
>
>> Of course, there were many other great products that enabled us -
>> like Compilit, X-App, Windowscript, and Tom Pitman's PrintReport,
>> which had features only now rivaled by Rev, 20 years later.
>
> True; one minor correct, though... Tom Pittman was the author of  
> Compile-It,
> while John Nairn was the author of PrintReport (IIRC).
>
> Boy, that brings back memories...
>
> :-)
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From dam-pro.girard at laposte.net  Sun Dec  7 06:29:43 2008
From: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net (GIRARD Damien)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 12:29:43 +0100
Subject: [OT] Ubuntu 8.10: headaches and nothing else.
In-Reply-To: <20879415.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <572580.75735.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20879415.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <493BB3A7.20608@laposte.net>

Personnaly, I hate Ubuntu.

As Linux user, my favorites distributions are those:
- Centos (Redhat Enterprise Linux Free)
- Debian

As Centos is RHEL, everything is working fine, it does not have the 
latest technology as other distributions but it is really stable. And 
updating works!
Debian is really fine for servers (Without GUI or anything useless for a 
server).

There is also OpenSolaris that is becoming great. But it is not mature 
for desktop usage. (But ZFS is really cool).

Peter Alcibiades a ?crit :
> All this is a reason for going with Debian proper rather than Ubuntu.  You
> get continuous upgrades.  Whereas Ubuntu, you have Debian in the background,
> but you have to do clean re-installs every time you do a major upgrade.  So
> with Ubuntu, you have all the disadvantages of Debian and none of the
> advantages. 
>
> If going with a release type upgrade, there is a lot to be said for Mandriva
> or PCLinux.  2008.1 was a pretty good release of Mandriva, and you can
> choose from KDE 3 or Gnome in the One versions.  2009 is KDE 4.1, so its
> probably worth waiting a while for a KDE 4.2 release, as lots of stuff is
> still incompatible and there is still a bit of work to be done on usability.
> Mandriva updates, you can just clean install without formatting /home, and
> its pretty reliable.
>
> If going with a Debian derivative there is a lot to be said for Mepis, which
> does do continuous upgrades. I would go with Debian Etch by the way, if
> going to Debian - there is no percentage in even going with Lenny until it
> becomes Stable.
>
> On older machines, there's a lot to be said for Zenwalk.  Xfce & Slackware
> based.  Or Debian with Fluxbox.
>
> The blackout might be a misconfigured xorg issue.  I've met this with
> installing Lenny.  Problem is that dpkg-reconfigure does not seem to give
> you proper access to the xorg parameters in their currently packaged version
> of xorg, so this means editing xorg.conf by hand, which is no fun - and I
> could not make even this work last time.
>
> On /home and partitions, yes, /home should always be a separate partition. 
> If you have configuration problems, dpkg-reconfigure.  I can't see any
> reason to have /usr/bin on a separate partition.  It used to be recommended
> to put /usr on a separate partition, but I always thought it more trouble
> than its worth.  Still less reason to put Grub on one.  What does this get
> you?
>   



From geradamas at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  7 10:08:29 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 07:08:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [OT] Ubuntu 8.10: headaches and nothing else.
Message-ID: <44789.26538.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I don't hate Ubuntu. 

Ubuntu has served extremely well, breathing life into a few extremely low-spec Pentium IIIs in my EFL school. Those computers have been running Ubuntu 5.10 since that distro was released; no crash, no smash, and always does what it is meant to do.

Having spent days guttering about in the late 90s, in the United Arab Emirates, trying to get SUSE and Red Hat to do anything at all (and failing completely) I appreciate the Ubuntu Alternate Install CDs like nothing on earth - dead easy; and in a relatively short time I can have a system up and running; and in a relatively short time more I can tweak GNOME or XFCE around to get the sort of GUI I want, or my customers feel conmfortable with. Runtime Revolution standalones work a charm on Ubuntu.

However, the other day I bought a Pentium 4, 1.7 GHz, 256MB RAM; popped a stray 40 GB Hard Disk into it and thought: "That's just what I need for RAD with Runtime Revolution in the school." So thought I would bung in Ubuntu 8.10 - - -  and ended up with a black screen.

That computer is now "strutting its funky stuff" very well indeed with Ubuntu 8.04.1.

I suspect that the ".1" may, actually hold the secret of what is happening to Ubuntu: they are getting slack, or, in the urge to get a new distro out every 6 months, their Beta-testing has not been as rigorous as it should be.

No doubt, in a while, we will see a "8.10.1". This however, will make people begin to lose faith in Ubuntu; as the idea of bug-fix releases looks like what Microsoft has always been about, and Macintosh seem to be becoming. I cannot cry about this that much as a Free operating system, inevitably, has a price somewhere else. Maybe Ubuntu should stop being quite so arrogant and stop shouting from the rooftops, and release a better, more tightly tested distro once a year, or, even once every 18 months. After all, upgrading (despite the cult of "ever upwards, ever onwards") is a slightly illusory process; it looks remarkably like the theories pushed by people who, willingly, misunderstand Darwin, and would have humanity at the top of a "great chain of being" that is continually improving; another load of old tosh.

Now, I have never bothered to upgrade my school computers as they do what they are meant to do - and upgrading is time consuming, requires an internet connexion (which I do not have in the school - i.e. herniated discs carrying machines up 3 flights of stairs), and unnecessary.

My initial posting under this heading was merely intended as a warning to anybody in the Runtime Revolution community who was thinking of either installing or upgrading to Ubuntu 8.10 no to.

I am aware that there are all sorts of ways, through exotic terminal commands, and so on, to work one's way round the 8.10 problem: Hey, life's to short, I've got kids to educate, programs to write, and so on ad nauseam.

Actually GIRARD Damien, I cannot understand why anybody would HATE any
particular operating system. I, personally, dislike Microsoft Windows, mainly because it seems resource-hungry, shot full of holes, and pushed by  a company with a cynical attitude towards its end-users. However, like it or not, I have to use Windows about once a month, and there are some aspects of that system I rather like. And, quite honestly, apart from FreeDOS running the GEM GUI, I find all systems never quite match up to my expectations; they are shot full of inconsistencies and little quirks: but, then, so am I, and so are you: we are human, and operating systems are made by human beings. [The reason I like FreeDOS with GEM is that it is so obviously a rickety old system with a cack-handed attempt at a GUI I have no illusions about what it can do - so we get along fine!]

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From dam-pro.girard at laposte.net  Sun Dec  7 10:22:01 2008
From: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net (Damien Girard)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 16:22:01 +0100
Subject: Vista external: Progress
Message-ID: <493BEA19.1080307@laposte.net>

Hi all,

I worked a bit on the Vista External, and I am starting to have few 
things interesting.
I will continue to search in order to have cool features for Revolution 
on Vista.

Here is a screenshot of what I did:
http://www.dam-pro.com/devel/Vista_Rev/Screenshot2.png

Best,

Damien Girard
Dam-pro, France.


From mikeythek at gmail.com  Sun Dec  7 10:49:13 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 10:49:13 -0500
Subject: [OT] Ubuntu 8.10: headaches and nothing else.
In-Reply-To: <44789.26538.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <44789.26538.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812070749k8bac340qd988f88604fc81f6@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, Richard, I was just trying to help you get around it.

There are other issues as well.  For example, in a clean 8.1 install,
I have HPLIP (a sophisticated manager for HP printers).  I decided to
uninstall it to try something, except when it uninstalled, it took all
my network services with it.  Reboot - nothing.  Reboot - nothing.
Reinstall HPLIP - all's right with the world.

Ubuntu definitely isn't anywhere near perfect, or anywhere near the
polish of the Big Two, but I really like it, the price is sure right,
and Compiz really blows everyone's socks off when I show it to them.


From mikeythek at gmail.com  Sun Dec  7 10:59:55 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 10:59:55 -0500
Subject: [OT] Ubuntu 8.10: headaches and nothing else.
In-Reply-To: <493BB3A7.20608@laposte.net>
References: <572580.75735.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20879415.post@talk.nabble.com> <493BB3A7.20608@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812070759j278a7d33ic307a7014b2d6de@mail.gmail.com>

Trying to get the responses all in one:

1) I really hate Solaris, period.  I hate it on our Sun boxes, too.
Maybe that's because the commands seem very clunky compared to HP-UX.
I hate the interfaces.  I haven't tried OS, but I can't imagine that
it's shed its legacy.
2) On a client, why is Debian better?  For servers, you could make any
argument for any distro and I'm sure it would make sense on one level
or another, but I'm putting this on my lappie.
3) I used to have Mandrake on a lappie, and didn't mind it, but it
doesn't seem to have the following that Ubuntu has now, and in my
experience, when I can't fix something, there's no substitute for
having lots of folks in the community (but I haven't tried Mandriva
recently, either).
4) The fracturing of the distros is a problem for overall Linux
adoption, IMHO, but that's just my HO.
5) The reason for putting GRUB on its own partition is so that each
distro and release doesn't overrun and hijack your settings and
preferences.  With GRUB on its own partition, your control is much
better, especially if you have the possibility of actually
multibooting - e.g. in Richard's situation where he's pulling the cord
on Intrepid to go back to Hardy.  In my case, after my disaster
in-place upgrade of Hardy to Intrepid, when I decided to have multiple
distros in place, I put Intrepid in first.  Then I put in Hardy.  The
Hardy GRUB is the one that boots, since it is the one that was
installed last.  This is exactly what will happen with each and every
install - the latest will hijack GRUB and you are at its mercy.


From lindley8 at telus.net  Sun Dec  7 11:44:37 2008
From: lindley8 at telus.net (Marcus Lindley)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 09:44:37 -0700
Subject: Returning the Keys
Message-ID: <58F473937EE94365AC11A1E5E27AFAC2@mlindleyPC>

How do I put a lineOffset into an array and return them with other keys?

I've tried this:

function myFunction myVariable
    repeat for each line thisLine in myVariable
        put lineOffset(myline,myVariable) & return into myArray[linenumber] -- trying to return the lineOffset for the unique line in the text
        add 1 to myArray[thewords] -- returns the unique lines in the text
    end repeat
return the keys of myArray
end myFunction

I've tried several variations, but the only thing that is ever returned from the [lineNumber] key is "lineNumber" (in stead of,
for instance "line 4 of fld 22")

How do I return the lineOffset in this array properly?

From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Sun Dec  7 04:00:12 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 01:00:12 -0800
Subject: Rinaldi and Rev Speed wuz Re: Newbie
In-Reply-To: <C560DE18.17D56%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <C560DE18.17D56%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c56140737f14@[192.168.1.105]>

Totally right, Ray, got them switched.  I heard John Nairn  was a 
gardener by day and wrote that XCMD by night.

>
>True; one minor correct, though... Tom Pittman was the author of Compile-It,
>while John Nairn was the author of PrintReport (IIRC).
>
>Boy, that brings back memories...
>
>:-)
>
>Ken Ray

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -





From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  7 12:53:12 2008
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 09:53:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Returning the Keys
In-Reply-To: <58F473937EE94365AC11A1E5E27AFAC2@mlindleyPC>
Message-ID: <672157.76445.qm@web65416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

--- Marcus Lindley <lindley8 at telus.net> wrote:
> How do I put a lineOffset into an array and return
> them with other keys?
> 
> I've tried this:
> 
> function myFunction myVariable
>     repeat for each line thisLine in myVariable
>         put lineOffset(myline,myVariable) & return
> into myArray[linenumber] -- trying to return the
> lineOffset for the unique line in the text
>         add 1 to myArray[thewords] -- returns the
> unique lines in the text
>     end repeat
> return the keys of myArray
> end myFunction
> 
> I've tried several variations, but the only thing
> that is ever returned from the [lineNumber] key is
> "lineNumber" (in stead of,
> for instance "line 4 of fld 22")
> 
> How do I return the lineOffset in this array
> properly?
> 

Hi Marcus,

I have to say I'm a little confused by your question.
None of the variables myLine, linenumber and thewords
are initialized anywhere.

When you use the 'repeat for each line' loop, you can
easily track the line number you're on by incrementing
a separate variable.
##
put 0 into theLineNumber
repeat for each line theLine in theVariable
  add 1 to theLineNumber
  -- now do whatever you need with the current line
number
end repeat
##

But other than that, it's easiest if you give us a
short example of input data and what the output should
look like. Then we can help you find the best
algorithm for the job at hand.

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam Reports & PDF Library for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


      


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Dec  7 13:05:11 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 10:05:11 -0800
Subject: variable storage
In-Reply-To: <20081207180004.8D85D48A2DE@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20081207180004.8D85D48A2DE@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <493C1057.3040209@fourthworld.com>

Bj?rnke wrote:

> I made an enhancement request:
> http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=7518
> 
> I  also filed a docu bug, as the dictionary is wrong about what "the  
> properties" will return:
> http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=7519

Thank you.

It's my understanding that Scott Raney added "the properties of 
<object>" specifically for RunRev Ltd. as a way to allow them 
efficiently recreate objects.  I'm sure the absence of the new antiAlias 
property was merely an error which will be corrected now that your 
report has brought it to their attention.

In the meantime, thankfully the default for the antiAlias property is 
true, which is probably what most people would want anyway.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  7 14:03:27 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 11:03:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [OT] Ubuntu 8.10: headaches and nothing else.
Message-ID: <249666.21883.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Mikey wrote:

"Sorry, Richard . . ."

Who is 'Richard' ?  Sure hope he appreciated your apologies.

Love, Richmond :)

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From andre at andregarzia.com  Sun Dec  7 14:05:04 2008
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 17:05:04 -0200
Subject: Rev On Rockets On Dreamhost - Does it work there?
In-Reply-To: <p06240803c56068b0eceb@192.168.1.105>
References: <493AB4FB.2020006@fourthworld.com>
	<p06240803c56068b0eceb@192.168.1.105>
Message-ID: <7c87a2a10812071105l36bbb763n525bf55524c8918e@mail.gmail.com>

Stephen,

Sorry for being late on this thread. And thanks for your support of
Rev On Rockets initiative.

The error you're having is a permission error. You must be sure you
set the correct permissions on the file and also the correct user and
group with chown command.

chown user:group filename

suEXEC needs the correct user and group. Just log in by SSH to your
dreamhost account and do a ls -l to see which user and group is being
used on your account (they are not standard, they are unique to each
dreamhost account). You can enable Shell Access on your Dreamhost
account by going into the accounts setup in the control panel. They
have something like: "Full access" which you need to enable so you can
use shell access.

There you'll see the user and group for your given www user. Then you
need to set the rest of the files to the same user and group or
Dreamhost suEXEC will complain and refuse to run.

Try that and get back to me.

Cheers
andre

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Stephen Barncard
<stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com> wrote:
> Thanks Richard. That's good to know.
>
> Yes, I've been looking at the logs and I always get this error:
>
>> suexec policy violation: see suexec log for more details, referer:
>> http://cms3.mitchmarcusmusic.com/
>
> I have no suexec log.
>
> the only other error is the error for not having the error page!
> I've sent a support ticket to the Dreamhost techs, they're pretty good about
> things.
>
> You're idea for the send script to and return logs is a good one. I'll
> incorporate that into my future cgi sandbox.
>
> By the way, doesn't FTP in Rev send passwords in plain text? How do you work
> around that?
>
> sqb
>
>> I run Rev CGIs on Dreamhost daily.  Once you find the culprit you'll have
>> a great time.
>>
>> Have you checked your error.log from the server's logs folder?
>>
>> I write my CGIs in a simple stack I made for doing so, which has a button
>> to upload the script so I take care of several small steps in one click.
>>
>> A few weeks ago I had trouble debugging a script's execution on the
>> server, and added another button that downloads my error.log file and
>> displays its contents - total time-saver, well worth the five minutes to set
>> it up.
>>
>>
>> The truth is out there - you just need to find where it's being reported.
>> :)
>>
>> --
>>  Richard Gaskin
>
> --
>
>
> stephen barncard
> s a n  f r a n c i s c o
> - - -  - - - - - - - - -
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.


From mikeythek at gmail.com  Sun Dec  7 14:06:24 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 14:06:24 -0500
Subject: [OT] Ubuntu 8.10: headaches and nothing else.
In-Reply-To: <249666.21883.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <249666.21883.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812071106r1767839chdeda08dd8326d788@mail.gmail.com>

Uh, Richmond, yeah.  Oops.  Just making up for the fact that half the
list calls me "Mickey" for some reason.  I can understand the other
half calling me "ignorant", but I digress...


From andre at andregarzia.com  Sun Dec  7 14:08:47 2008
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 17:08:47 -0200
Subject: Rev On Rockets On Dreamhost -FOLLOW UP
In-Reply-To: <p06240806c560b6b9373e@192.168.1.105>
References: <493AD2EC.1050508@fourthworld.com>
	<p06240806c560b6b9373e@192.168.1.105>
Message-ID: <7c87a2a10812071108t53748cd6y7932f341b2285789@mail.gmail.com>

Stephen,

Yes, I use TextMate and Interarchy. I am uploading a new "*ALPHA*"
copy of RevOnRockets to the web today with the patches and some brand
new stuff. As for the presentation, don't blame the video guys. IIRC
my machine stopped recording the screen and we lost the screen video
(it failed silent argh!)

I'll post some more news shortly.

Om Shanti
andre

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 10:09 PM, Stephen Barncard
<stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com> wrote:
> As promised, I'm here to report SUCCESS. All the words of wisdom from those
> of you who have responded have paid off. It appears to be my 'afternoon of
> assumptions' in which the inter-dependent factors and lack of meaningful
> error messages I'm allowed to see, conspired to work against me in my quest
> for rev on the web.
>
>        1st mistake.    Assuming that ROR had the -ui on each script file.
>
>  I <thought> I saw that on a few cgi files I checked in ROR. Not true. The
> very first one, hello world was missing the all important -ui parameter at
> the top. So the correct startup should begin with
>
>
>                         #!./revolution  -ui
>
> on each cgi file. Strange that this important element was left out in the
> ROR package, and it was quite emphasized by Andre to be very important.
>
>
>
> In my case it seems to be fine with an even shorter top line:
>
>
>                         #!revolution -ui
>
>         2nd mistake.   Assuming that all the permissions are set.
> I went over and over again with the Transmit tool and set the permissions of
> everybody to 755. For some reason it didn't stick. I feel like an idiot.
>
> Of course the tech support guy kindly pointed me to the Wickipedia entry for
>  chmod in his response, complete with a dump of all the unchanged
> permissions in the directory. I'm still waiting to hear from him how I can
> get better error messages using rev.
>
>
>     3rd mistake.  Assuming that the cgi files in ROR have the right line
> endings.
>
>  Damn! I really trusted BBEdit to 'know' what to do when saving back to the
> server after editing.    Obviously that didn't work. The line endings to a
> Linux server need to be LF only.
>
>
>  I also assumed the zip package was 'ready to go' in the Linux environment
> and I carefully FTPd the downloaded zip directly to a remote web folder,
> then used the shell to go in and unzip, rather than expanding on the Mac
> desktop (where it was zipped) and using a good FTP client to upload, the
> line endings would be automatically handled (perhaps Andre even warned about
> this in his presentation).
> This is an old habit from installing web apps like Joomla and Gallery. I
> usually  try to expand on the server end. Less time to upload and
> theoretically less things to go wrong; a package  created in situ.
>
> Andre, if I guess right, used stuffit on his local mac to make the zip file.
> And tested it of course by opening it up in a folder, and dropping the files
> into the excellent Interarchy which of course will handle line endings
> invisibly.
>
> in the BBEdit prefs panel:  Text Files :
>
> 1. set the checkbox "Translate line breaks" to TRUE (checked)
> 2. set the default line breaks to UNIX (LF)
>
> One of the main reasons I bought the Vegas Video pack was to see Andre
> deliver his lesson. What wonderful energy and brilliant ideas. I sure wish
> the video guys could have included screen shots at the presentation screen
> on the ROR  presentation though.  Kinda sad, since we have so much
> technology about. It really hard to watch anyone standing there with
> absolutely no breaks in the scene and at the same time  not see the stuff
> he's talking about.    I'm glad to have something, but ....
>
> anyway, I got Rev on the web, rev on the web....
>
>
> --
>
>
> stephen barncard
> s a n  f r a n c i s c o
> - - -  - - - - - - - - -
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.


From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Dec  7 14:31:54 2008
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 13:31:54 -0600
Subject: variable storage
In-Reply-To: <493C1057.3040209@fourthworld.com>
References: <20081207180004.8D85D48A2DE@mail.runrev.com>
	<493C1057.3040209@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <665591460812071131q597e9cc3hbb182738a82a564c@mail.gmail.com>

I did a project awhile ago and also found these properties of an
object were also not stored when using "the properties" of an object:

"id"
"visited"
"layer"
"armed"
"htmlText"

I'll add these to Bj?rnke bug report.


From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Dec  7 14:34:00 2008
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 13:34:00 -0600
Subject: Vista external: Progress
In-Reply-To: <493BEA19.1080307@laposte.net>
References: <493BEA19.1080307@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <665591460812071134n4adb64fam1c204186d4affcd6@mail.gmail.com>

Looks cool. I was wondering if you were going to be able to keep
fields opaque with the window background transparent. That's something
difficult to do in Rev basic-- unless you just want the window to stay
a static size. Nice job.


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Dec  7 15:37:32 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 12:37:32 -0800
Subject: variable storage
Message-ID: <493C340C.8060503@fourthworld.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:
> I did a project awhile ago and also found these properties of an
> object were also not stored when using "the properties" of an object:
> 
> "id"
> "visited"
> "layer"
> "armed"
> "htmlText"
> 
> I'll add these to Bj?rnke bug report.


Good catch.  Thanks for adding those.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From dam-pro.girard at laposte.net  Sun Dec  7 16:16:45 2008
From: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net (Damien Girard)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 22:16:45 +0100
Subject: Vista external: Progress
In-Reply-To: <665591460812071134n4adb64fam1c204186d4affcd6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <493BEA19.1080307@laposte.net>
	<665591460812071134n4adb64fam1c204186d4affcd6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <493C3D3D.40307@laposte.net>

I found a bug with Revolution that remove the highest interest of having 
"glassed" window:
- Setting the opaque of a field to false and the blendlevel to 1 (In 
order to have the object having the Alpha channel information) lost 
antialiasing on Vista.

This is heavily annoying, so please vote for this bug in order to have 
it fixed for the next Revolution release.
http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=7521

Also, there is this enhancement request that can make the usage of 
"glass" window usable easily:
http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=7522

The second enhancement request is for removing the needs to set the 
blendlevel to 1 in order to have objects drawn by Revolution Alpha Blend 
aware.

Please votes for this bug and the enhancement request in order to have 
beautiful glassy windows :)

Regards,

Damien
Dam-pro, France.

Chipp Walters a ?crit :
> Looks cool. I was wondering if you were going to be able to keep
> fields opaque with the window background transparent. That's something
> difficult to do in Rev basic-- unless you just want the window to stay
> a static size. Nice job


From tom.cole at asu.edu  Sun Dec  7 16:37:13 2008
From: tom.cole at asu.edu (Tom Cole)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 14:37:13 -0700
Subject: Database Basics
Message-ID: <4f9dbcb5a85981e1be3c13611f7f963e@asu.edu>

Dear Revolutionaries,

I made a sort of flat database with tons of redundancy in HyperCard to 
track all of the birds I have seen for many years. I love it, but it's 
time to move it to OSX and make it more efficient. I can easily convert 
most of the data to comma delimited records like the following with 
four items to sort: birdname,date,place,notes

Abert's Towhee,8/8/1971,Cotton Fields Safford Arizona,scratching in an 
arroyo
Abert's Towhee,10/23/1971,Headlight Pond,mask particularly dark
Abert's Towhee,11/27/1971,Verde River,heard only in the mesquite
Acorn Woodpecker,12/22/1971,Mount Ord,spectacular sighting
American Water Pipit/01/04/1972,Phoenix Sewer Flats,odd he was on a 
fencepost
Band-tailed Pigeon,01,20,1972,Sunset Crater Arizona,high in the 
ponderosas

I'm experienced with revolution and want to make the front end 
interface using my familiar scripting -- then I can blaze away. But 
imagine the above list with 17,757 lines. That's how many individual 
birds I have seen and recorded. The field sorts fast in Rev by item 
(date, birdname, etc.) in the field but that's about all I can do. I 
realize belatedly that I don't know how the heck to make this database. 
I want to filter out all the birds seen in a particular place on a 
particular date and have that appear somewhere and endless things like 
that.

Is it possible to filter information quickly with 17757 records in a 
field?  I know that's what SQL for (as the backend I think you call 
it), but does Rev have the power to allow me to stay happily in Rev?

Forgive my ignorance on this. I guess you might advise me to learn SQL. 
If so, then if there is an easy layout or flow chart that might help, 
that would be great. I tried a couple of the tutorials on SQL available 
at runrev.com, but remain kind of stuck. What's an easy book perhaps 
with a simple hands-on project?

Thanks
Tom


From pepetoo at cox.net  Sun Dec  7 17:02:10 2008
From: pepetoo at cox.net (Joe Lewis Wilkins)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 14:02:10 -0800
Subject: Database Basics
In-Reply-To: <4f9dbcb5a85981e1be3c13611f7f963e@asu.edu>
References: <4f9dbcb5a85981e1be3c13611f7f963e@asu.edu>
Message-ID: <0ED0E2B9-2C20-4E32-B92E-93402145C976@cox.net>

Hi Tom,

I did something with a bird stack about 20 years ago; but, since I  
wanted to have a picture of each one, I used a separate card for each  
bird. Only B/W with HC, however. That made sorting and arranging and  
doing all sorts of things real easy - even for HC; but I don't  
remember having that many birds. I can see you're not planning  
anything as elaborate as what I was doing. Of course, I think, many of  
your observations are for the same "bird"; just different times and  
places; so, perhaps, you wouldn't actually need so many cards after  
all, having multiple entries on many of the cards. Should you take  
that direction it would be pretty easy to create the stack from the  
field data you already have from a script. You may want to try that,  
regardless. Another approach.

Good luck,

Joe Wilkins

On Dec 7, 2008, at 1:37 PM, Tom Cole wrote:

> Dear Revolutionaries,
>
> I made a sort of flat database with tons of redundancy in HyperCard  
> to track all of the birds I have seen for many years. I love it, but  
> it's time to move it to OSX and make it more efficient. I can easily  
> convert most of the data to comma delimited records like the  
> following with four items to sort: birdname,date,place,notes
>
> Abert's Towhee,8/8/1971,Cotton Fields Safford Arizona,scratching in  
> an arroyo
> Abert's Towhee,10/23/1971,Headlight Pond,mask particularly dark
> Abert's Towhee,11/27/1971,Verde River,heard only in the mesquite
> Acorn Woodpecker,12/22/1971,Mount Ord,spectacular sighting
> American Water Pipit/01/04/1972,Phoenix Sewer Flats,odd he was on a  
> fencepost
> Band-tailed Pigeon,01,20,1972,Sunset Crater Arizona,high in the  
> ponderosas
>
> I'm experienced with revolution and want to make the front end  
> interface using my familiar scripting -- then I can blaze away. But  
> imagine the above list with 17,757 lines. That's how many individual  
> birds I have seen and recorded. The field sorts fast in Rev by item  
> (date, birdname, etc.) in the field but that's about all I can do. I  
> realize belatedly that I don't know how the heck to make this  
> database. I want to filter out all the birds seen in a particular  
> place on a particular date and have that appear somewhere and  
> endless things like that.
>
> Is it possible to filter information quickly with 17757 records in a  
> field?  I know that's what SQL for (as the backend I think you call  
> it), but does Rev have the power to allow me to stay happily in Rev?
>
> Forgive my ignorance on this. I guess you might advise me to learn  
> SQL. If so, then if there is an easy layout or flow chart that might  
> help, that would be great. I tried a couple of the tutorials on SQL  
> available at runrev.com, but remain kind of stuck. What's an easy  
> book perhaps with a simple hands-on project?
>
> Thanks
> Tom
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

--
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See   <http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html>
----------------------------------------
Joe Lewis Wilkins
pepetoo at cox.net







From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Sun Dec  7 17:15:04 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 23:15:04 +0100
Subject: Database Basics
In-Reply-To: <4f9dbcb5a85981e1be3c13611f7f963e@asu.edu>
References: <4f9dbcb5a85981e1be3c13611f7f963e@asu.edu>
Message-ID: <01E48745-6545-4800-A681-0A95CEE22A88@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi Tom,

I made a very simple database example, which you can find in  
RevOnline, username Mark. It keeps all data in properties. I have also  
a much more complex version, which has no problems searching for a  
string in several tens of thousands of records, but I must admit that  
it takes quite a bit of scripting to keep it speedy. Using MySQL takes  
this hassle away.

The Revolution documentation tells you how to connect to MySQL, but it  
doesn't tell you how to make correct MySQL syntax. The MySQL tutorial,  
available in the standard MySQL documentation at www.mysql.com is very  
useful for starters. Just start reading at the beginning. You'll know  
enough about MySQL within a few hours.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

Color Converter has been updated! Get it at
http://colorconverter.economy-x-talk.com !

On 7 dec 2008, at 22:37, Tom Cole wrote:

> Dear Revolutionaries,
>
> I made a sort of flat database with tons of redundancy in HyperCard  
> to track all of the birds I have seen for many years. I love it, but  
> it's time to move it to OSX and make it more efficient. I can easily  
> convert most of the data to comma delimited records like the  
> following with four items to sort: birdname,date,place,notes
>
> Abert's Towhee,8/8/1971,Cotton Fields Safford Arizona,scratching in  
> an arroyo
> Abert's Towhee,10/23/1971,Headlight Pond,mask particularly dark
> Abert's Towhee,11/27/1971,Verde River,heard only in the mesquite
> Acorn Woodpecker,12/22/1971,Mount Ord,spectacular sighting
> American Water Pipit/01/04/1972,Phoenix Sewer Flats,odd he was on a  
> fencepost
> Band-tailed Pigeon,01,20,1972,Sunset Crater Arizona,high in the  
> ponderosas
>
> I'm experienced with revolution and want to make the front end  
> interface using my familiar scripting -- then I can blaze away. But  
> imagine the above list with 17,757 lines. That's how many individual  
> birds I have seen and recorded. The field sorts fast in Rev by item  
> (date, birdname, etc.) in the field but that's about all I can do. I  
> realize belatedly that I don't know how the heck to make this  
> database. I want to filter out all the birds seen in a particular  
> place on a particular date and have that appear somewhere and  
> endless things like that.
>
> Is it possible to filter information quickly with 17757 records in a  
> field?  I know that's what SQL for (as the backend I think you call  
> it), but does Rev have the power to allow me to stay happily in Rev?
>
> Forgive my ignorance on this. I guess you might advise me to learn  
> SQL. If so, then if there is an easy layout or flow chart that might  
> help, that would be great. I tried a couple of the tutorials on SQL  
> available at runrev.com, but remain kind of stuck. What's an easy  
> book perhaps with a simple hands-on project?
>
> Thanks
> Tom




From bvg at mac.com  Sun Dec  7 17:44:20 2008
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 23:44:20 +0100
Subject: variable storage
In-Reply-To: <665591460812071131q597e9cc3hbb182738a82a564c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081207180004.8D85D48A2DE@mail.runrev.com>
	<493C1057.3040209@fourthworld.com>
	<665591460812071131q597e9cc3hbb182738a82a564c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8A6B0639-68A7-4D56-9B42-948EA53FFD24@mac.com>

Hi Chipp

That's funny, for what Object type did you need it? I do get all your  
examples for a field respectively for a button ("htmltext" and "armed"  
do not exist in every object)? I used this to look them up:

put the properties of the mousecontrol into x; put the keys of x into  
x; sort x; put x

Maybe I misunderstood your comment? I also said explicitly that the ID  
does show up (in the bug), despite it being read only for the tested  
objects (only editable for images and stacks).

have fun
Bj?rnke

On 7 Dec 2008, at 20:31, Chipp Walters wrote:

> I did a project awhile ago and also found these properties of an
> object were also not stored when using "the properties" of an object:
>
> "id"
> "visited"
> "layer"
> "armed"
> "htmlText"
>
> I'll add these to Bj?rnke bug report.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Dec  7 18:10:13 2008
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 17:10:13 -0600
Subject: variable storage
In-Reply-To: <8A6B0639-68A7-4D56-9B42-948EA53FFD24@mac.com>
References: <20081207180004.8D85D48A2DE@mail.runrev.com>
	<493C1057.3040209@fourthworld.com>
	<665591460812071131q597e9cc3hbb182738a82a564c@mail.gmail.com>
	<8A6B0639-68A7-4D56-9B42-948EA53FFD24@mac.com>
Message-ID: <665591460812071510v328776a0pa83029e035296bfb@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bj?rnke,

Awhile back, I wrote a library which enabled the sharing of rev
controls from one stack to another over the internet. I sent controls
back and forth using the properties function wrapped in XML, and then
after 're-making' a control, I compared checksums of the new control
with the original, and found they did not match. The listed items
mentioned in my previous email had to be removed from the properties
of a control so they would match properly.

Yes, I did see your ID mention in the bug report.

HTH,
Chipp


From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Dec  7 18:17:07 2008
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 17:17:07 -0600
Subject: Database Basics
In-Reply-To: <4f9dbcb5a85981e1be3c13611f7f963e@asu.edu>
References: <4f9dbcb5a85981e1be3c13611f7f963e@asu.edu>
Message-ID: <665591460812071517m59d2f129xdc79e94d1a140794@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Tom,

Here's my 2 cents on the subject. I'd stick with the one card per
record which Joe suggested. But, during runtime, I'd keep the stack
with the cards invisible, and pull information into your 'application'
stack. The idea being the business logic in the application code in a
standalone never changes, but the external database stack does. Keep
the data separate from the what you want to do with the data.

Another advantage of keeping these two separate is you can later add
on a real database like SQLlite, Valentina, or MySQL without having to
destroy your 'front end.'

You'll find you can quickly mark and sort and collect data from your
invisible cards, and assemble the report you want in your application
stack.

best,
Chipp


From mdswindell at cruzio.com  Sun Dec  7 22:53:25 2008
From: mdswindell at cruzio.com (Mark Swindell)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 19:53:25 -0800
Subject: Rev Scripting Conferences?
Message-ID: <2DD61873-CC4B-499E-9535-657D70BE5078@cruzio.com>

I was just reviewing Jeanne DeVoto's Menu Scripting Conference.   
Excellent tutorials... I downloaded several of them.  Did those ever  
make it into the 3.0 documentation? I really think they should have...

Googling "runrev scripting conferences" I found them at http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences/

Going to support.runrev.com, however, there is no mention or links.   
(On the Consultants page there is the daughter of that cute girl that  
used to answer the phones at the old MacWarehouse and MacMall mail  
order houses, though.  ;))

Mark


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Dec  7 23:53:43 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 22:53:43 -0600
Subject: Rev Scripting Conferences?
In-Reply-To: <2DD61873-CC4B-499E-9535-657D70BE5078@cruzio.com>
References: <2DD61873-CC4B-499E-9535-657D70BE5078@cruzio.com>
Message-ID: <493CA857.9080502@hyperactivesw.com>

Mark Swindell wrote:
> I was just reviewing Jeanne DeVoto's Menu Scripting Conference.  
> Excellent tutorials... I downloaded several of them.  Did those ever 
> make it into the 3.0 documentation? I really think they should have...
> 
> Googling "runrev scripting conferences" I found them at 
> http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences/

For some reason RR removed the link when they revised the site. I put up 
a clone at my site, with their permission. So there's two, neither obvious.

> Going to support.runrev.com, however, there is no mention or links.  (On 
> the Consultants page there is the daughter of that cute girl that used 
> to answer the phones at the old MacWarehouse and MacMall mail order 
> houses, though.  ;))

She's *still* there! I got a catalog last week. She hasn't changed in years.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Dec  8 02:14:28 2008
From: palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk (Peter Alcibiades)
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 23:14:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [OT] Ubuntu 8.10: headaches and nothing else.
In-Reply-To: <9b408d8e0812070759j278a7d33ic307a7014b2d6de@mail.gmail.com>
References: <572580.75735.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20879415.post@talk.nabble.com> <493BB3A7.20608@laposte.net>
	<9b408d8e0812070759j278a7d33ic307a7014b2d6de@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20890510.post@talk.nabble.com>



Mikey-3 wrote:
> 
> 
> 2) On a client, why is Debian better?  For servers, you could make any
> argument for any distro and I'm sure it would make sense on one level
> or another, but I'm putting this on my lappie.
> 
> 

Its better because you don't have the upgrade/reinstall problem in the same
form.  The Debian releases are much less frequent. Etch, for instance, has
been out for a couple of years.  Within a release, you get the apps updated. 
However, within an Ubuntu release, you are not getting the apps updated,
just security fixes.  You may feel this doesn't matter, because Ubuntu does
a new release every six months or so.  But it does, because then you end up
in Ubuntu reinstall issues, as Richmond and you have found.

Debian is better because you are better off doing one major system upgrade
very two or three years, and keeping up to date in the meantime by doing
upgrades of the apps on a continuous rolling basis, rather than every six
months being faced with the choice to stay with the older releases of the
apps, or do a problematic clean reinstall.  Its not a sensible way of
running a distribution.

This is why Warren Woodford took Mepis back to Debian:

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS6170488551.html

I would add that when you do want to do a total system upgrade, when Testing
is moved to Stable, on Debian, apt-get dist-upgrade does work.  Its been
properly tested.  Its impossible to do proper testing on dist upgrade if you
are trying to get it out every six months.  And the forums show that.

You have the same issue, though on an annual basis not a six month one, with
Mandriva, but the nice thing about Mandriva is that if you don't want to do
administration from the command line, you almost never have to.  For some of
us this veiling of the system in gui wizards is a positive disadvantage, but
it has the benefit that if you put in Mandriva for someone, and show them
the control center, they feel at home right away.  And with Mandriva, at
least recently, the clean installs of major releases, as long as you have
put /home on a separate partition, seem pretty foolproof.

Peter
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/-OT--Ubuntu-8.10%3A-headaches-and-nothing-else.-tp20870256p20890510.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Dec  8 04:30:31 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 10:30:31 +0100
Subject: Rev Scripting Conferences?
In-Reply-To: <493CA857.9080502@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <2DD61873-CC4B-499E-9535-657D70BE5078@cruzio.com>
	<493CA857.9080502@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <F26009E8-A13A-40C3-A8AE-53B9CEA84FA5@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonjour Jacque and Mark,

Actually, the link to the scripting conferences page has always been  
present in Revolution Search Engine:
Right click on Web Database tab and choose Go to > Runrev Scripting  
conferences.
This link is one among about fifty you can get in this menu.

Le 8 d?c. 08 ? 05:53, J. Landman Gay a ?crit :

> Mark Swindell wrote:
>> I was just reviewing Jeanne DeVoto's Menu Scripting Conference.   
>> Excellent tutorials... I downloaded several of them.  Did those  
>> ever make it into the 3.0 documentation? I really think they  
>> should have...
>> Googling "runrev scripting conferences" I found them at http:// 
>> support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences/
>
> For some reason RR removed the link when they revised the site. I  
> put up a clone at my site, with their permission. So there's two,  
> neither obvious.

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Mon Dec  8 05:13:09 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 02:13:09 -0800
Subject: Rev Scripting Conferences?
In-Reply-To: <2DD61873-CC4B-499E-9535-657D70BE5078@cruzio.com>
References: <2DD61873-CC4B-499E-9535-657D70BE5078@cruzio.com>
Message-ID: <4be051070812080213h6518a016ia1f6c5cd3a2309b5@mail.gmail.com>

You know, I actually have a link to them at my little fledgling blog:
http://revined.blogspot.com

Third one down on the right-side of links.

Mine wasn't particularly one of the excellent ones, but alot were really
good.

Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com


On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:53 PM, Mark Swindell <mdswindell at cruzio.com> wrote:

> I was just reviewing Jeanne DeVoto's Menu Scripting Conference.  Excellent
> tutorials... I downloaded several of them.  Did those ever make it into the
> 3.0 documentation? I really think they should have...
>
> Googling "runrev scripting conferences" I found them at
> http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences/
>
> Going to support.runrev.com, however, there is no mention or links.  (On
> the Consultants page there is the daughter of that cute girl that used to
> answer the phones at the old MacWarehouse and MacMall mail order houses,
> though.  ;))
>
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From toolbook at kestner.de  Mon Dec  8 08:46:32 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 14:46:32 +0100
Subject: AW: AW: How to detect a CD Drive / write permissions?
In-Reply-To: <C560DD29.17D53%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <37446AA2E4E0441FACE1A004E9B56090@Kestner.local>

Thank you Ken for your detailed explanation, that will help!
Thanks
Tiemo

> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-
> bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Ken Ray
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Dezember 2008 08:54
> An: Use Revolution List
> Betreff: Re: AW: How to detect a CD Drive / write permissions?
> 
> 
> > Mac and Win. Obviously there is no native Rev function, do you have
> snippets
> > how to ask the shell for it?
> 
> For Mac, you need to use the "system_profiler" shell command, pass it one
> of
> the data types you're interested in, and then parse the result. I'm not
> sure
> what Mac OSes you need to support, but here's the basics:
> 
> 1) Get a list of existing datatypes on the current machine so you can know
> which ones to check in subsequent commands:
> 
>     put shell("system_profiler -listDataTypes") into tTypesList
> 
> 2) You'll need to look at a handful of the data types. For example, my
> setup
> right now is a MacBook Pro with two external drives attached via USB and a
> built in R/W CD/DVD. On *my* machine, you query:
> 
>   - the "SPParallelATADataType" to get data on any mounted CD or DVD in
> the
> drive;
> 
>   - the "SPSerialATADataType" to get data on my internal hard drive;
> 
>   - and the "SPUSBDataType" to get data on the external hard drives.
> 
> The way you would call it is:
> 
>   put shell("system_profiler SPUSBDataType") into tUSBData
> 
> ... and then parse that. You can get a bunch of data types together, but
> it
> may make parsing difficult. But the way to do that is:
> 
>   put shell("system_profiler SPUSBDataType SPSerialATADataType") into
> tData
> 
> 3) You can get more info on this command by typing "man system_profiler"
> in
> the terminal on OS X.
> 
> As to Windows, there is a "driveType" property that you can query with a
> VBScript, but it uses the "Scripting.FileSystemObject" object, which may
> trigger virus protection software installed on the target machine. But if
> you want to use it, here's the VBScript:
> -------------
> Dim tFSO, tDrive, tType, tDrivePath
> 
> 'This is where you put in the drive letter you've parsed from a file path
> Set tDrivePath = "C:"
> 
> Set tFSO = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")
> Set tDrive = tFSO.GetDrive( tDrivePath)
> Select Case tDrive.DriveType
>     Case 0: tType = "Unknown"
>     Case 1: tType = "Removable"
>     Case 2: tType = "Fixed"
>     Case 3: tType = "Network"
>     Case 4: tType = "CD-ROM"
>     Case 5: tType = "RAM Disk"
> End Select
> 
> ' If you're using Rev 3.0 or later, use this final line:
> result = tType
> 
> ' If you're using Rev 2.9 or earlier, use this line instead:
> WScript.Echo tType
> ----------------
> 
> There may be another way to run this without using the
> Scripting.FileSystemObject, but the only other way I've used is to wrap
> this
> code into a DLL, register the DLL and then call on the *DLL* from
> VBScript.
> 
> Anyway, hope this helps,
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From shoreagent at gmail.com  Mon Dec  8 09:20:50 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 10:20:50 -0400
Subject: Menu bars on main stack and different menus on substacks
Message-ID: <459b22a90812080620g77b96f0bl7ef3999b9e80aa25@mail.gmail.com>

Menubars on main stack and substack
Hi

I know what happens with a menu on the mainstack and none on any of the
substacks but I was wondering how to implement a menu that changes depending
on what stack is opened. If you put a different menubar in a substack does
it happen automatically? Can you put just one menu item in the substack and
get it to add that item to the main menu when that substack is open and then
when you go to a different substack a different item is added?


From pepetoo at cox.net  Mon Dec  8 09:36:44 2008
From: pepetoo at cox.net (Joe Lewis Wilkins)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 06:36:44 -0800
Subject: Menu bars on main stack and different menus on substacks
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812080620g77b96f0bl7ef3999b9e80aa25@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812080620g77b96f0bl7ef3999b9e80aa25@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9B9020FB-11B7-4307-9ECE-FC2D40070FE7@cox.net>

Hi Will,

Have you considered using pop-up menus on the sub-stacks?

Just a thought.

Joe Wilkins

On Dec 8, 2008, at 6:20 AM, william humphrey wrote:

> Menubars on main stack and substack
> Hi
>
> I know what happens with a menu on the mainstack and none on any of  
> the
> substacks but I was wondering how to implement a menu that changes  
> depending
> on what stack is opened. If you put a different menubar in a  
> substack does
> it happen automatically? Can you put just one menu item in the  
> substack and
> get it to add that item to the main menu when that substack is open  
> and then
> when you go to a different substack a different item is added?


From shoreagent at gmail.com  Mon Dec  8 09:39:53 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 10:39:53 -0400
Subject: Menu bars on main stack and different menus on substacks
In-Reply-To: <9B9020FB-11B7-4307-9ECE-FC2D40070FE7@cox.net>
References: <459b22a90812080620g77b96f0bl7ef3999b9e80aa25@mail.gmail.com>
	<9B9020FB-11B7-4307-9ECE-FC2D40070FE7@cox.net>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812080639p18a7cca2g4e1b6bd8b83db044@mail.gmail.com>

I would consider anything. Do you think that would look ok on Windows? I
haven't tried looking at anything on windows yet...

On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Joe Lewis Wilkins <pepetoo at cox.net> wrote:

> Hi Will,
>
> Have you considered using pop-up menus on the sub-stacks?
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Joe Wilkins
>
>
> On Dec 8, 2008, at 6:20 AM, william humphrey wrote:
>
>  Menubars on main stack and substack
>> Hi
>>
>> I know what happens with a menu on the mainstack and none on any of the
>> substacks but I was wondering how to implement a menu that changes
>> depending
>> on what stack is opened. If you put a different menubar in a substack does
>> it happen automatically? Can you put just one menu item in the substack
>> and
>> get it to add that item to the main menu when that substack is open and
>> then
>> when you go to a different substack a different item is added?
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.bluewatermaritime.com


From shoreagent at gmail.com  Mon Dec  8 09:41:56 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 10:41:56 -0400
Subject: Menu bars on main stack and different menus on substacks
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812080639p18a7cca2g4e1b6bd8b83db044@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812080620g77b96f0bl7ef3999b9e80aa25@mail.gmail.com>
	<9B9020FB-11B7-4307-9ECE-FC2D40070FE7@cox.net>
	<459b22a90812080639p18a7cca2g4e1b6bd8b83db044@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812080641hd5e0105r483f266744688051@mail.gmail.com>

Seems to me in windows a  whole row of new menu choices is added underneath
the main menu choices so maybe there is someway to implement something like
that.

On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 10:39 AM, william humphrey <shoreagent at gmail.com>wrote:

> I would consider anything. Do you think that would look ok on Windows? I
> haven't tried looking at anything on windows yet...
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Joe Lewis Wilkins <pepetoo at cox.net>wrote:
>
>> Hi Will,
>>
>> Have you considered using pop-up menus on the sub-stacks?
>>
>> Just a thought.
>>
>> Joe Wilkins
>>
>>
>> On Dec 8, 2008, at 6:20 AM, william humphrey wrote:
>>
>>  Menubars on main stack and substack
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I know what happens with a menu on the mainstack and none on any of the
>>> substacks but I was wondering how to implement a menu that changes
>>> depending
>>> on what stack is opened. If you put a different menubar in a substack
>>> does
>>> it happen automatically? Can you put just one menu item in the substack
>>> and
>>> get it to add that item to the main menu when that substack is open and
>>> then
>>> when you go to a different substack a different item is added?
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
>



-- 
http://www.bluewatermaritime.com


From dunbarx at aol.com  Mon Dec  8 09:54:22 2008
From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 09:54:22 -0500
Subject: Newbie3
In-Reply-To: <49396F01.30504@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <907A058B.DA30.4754.9A08.C8E15D067EE8@aol.com>

Feels like old times. When I get to newbie4000 I can start helping out around here.

So, fullFind...

What I like about this gadget is its ability to return ALL matched instances by line, item or character.??It returns chunk-based information about the location(s) of a string within a container.?Even HC's old "search" XFCN from the power tools stack could do that.

I wrote a few workarounds using the lineOffset function. They all do the job just fine in their own way, and I can implement one of them as a function and keep it in a library (a stack in use?). I am sure the other offSet functions will come in handy. I see there is already a native substitute for?"fullReplace".?Well and good.

But??I can write a substitute for fullFind in hypertalk, too. The lineOffset function only returns the first instance, so additional processing is required to get all of them.?So, wow me with Rev's arsenal. How to do it without a repeat loop? Find all "ab" in:

abc
def
abc

I want "1,3" back at me, or somesuch.

Jacqueline, I finally got the "filter" command to work, but this?simply extracts data; I lose the chunk positional information present in the original text. How would one use it to emulate fullFind?

Grudgingly learning to like Revolution. (Sob) My belligerent stance derives only from loyalty.

Oh yes, thanks to anyone who takes the trouble...

Craig Newman


On Dec 5, 2008, at 1:12:17 PM, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:
FullFind can be replaced with the "filter" command, or by using any one
of the various offset functions. If you choose to use offset, be sure to
use the "skip" parameter or else you will be searching the same text
repeatedly.



From mikeythek at gmail.com  Mon Dec  8 10:08:27 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 10:08:27 -0500
Subject: [OT] Ubuntu 8.10: headaches and nothing else.
In-Reply-To: <20890510.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <572580.75735.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20879415.post@talk.nabble.com> <493BB3A7.20608@laposte.net>
	<9b408d8e0812070759j278a7d33ic307a7014b2d6de@mail.gmail.com>
	<20890510.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812080708k42b9da3bt1959c6f1457d0117@mail.gmail.com>

OK, to sum, we have a couple of opinions on a client distro.  Do we
have a recommendation on Debian vs. Mandriva?

This is a lappie.

What am I giving up by punting on Ubuntu?


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  8 10:11:37 2008
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 07:11:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Newbie3
In-Reply-To: <907A058B.DA30.4754.9A08.C8E15D067EE8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <817911.45000.qm@web65404.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

--- dunbarx <dunbarx at aol.com> wrote:
> Feels like old times. When I get to newbie4000 I can
> start helping out around here.
> 
> So, fullFind...
> 
> What I like about this gadget is its ability to
> return ALL matched instances by line, item or
> character.??It returns chunk-based information about
> the location(s) of a string within a container.?Even
> HC's old "search" XFCN from the power tools stack
> could do that.
> 
> I wrote a few workarounds using the lineOffset
> function. They all do the job just fine in their own
> way, and I can implement one of them as a function
> and keep it in a library (a stack in use?). I am
> sure the other offSet functions will come in handy.
> I see there is already a native substitute
> for?"fullReplace".?Well and good.
> 
> But??I can write a substitute for fullFind in
> hypertalk, too. The lineOffset function only returns
> the first instance, so additional processing is
> required to get all of them.?So, wow me with Rev's
> arsenal. How to do it without a repeat loop? Find
> all "ab" in:
> 
> abc
> def
> abc
> 
> I want "1,3" back at me, or somesuch.
> 
> Jacqueline, I finally got the "filter" command to
> work, but this?simply extracts data; I lose the
> chunk positional information present in the original
> text. How would one use it to emulate fullFind?
> 
> Grudgingly learning to like Revolution. (Sob) My
> belligerent stance derives only from loyalty.
> 
> Oh yes, thanks to anyone who takes the trouble...
> 
> Craig Newman
> 

Hi Craig,

Here's a quick attempt:
##
function MyFindLines theTextToFind, theVariable
  local theLines, theLineNumber
  put 0 into theLineNumber
  repeat for each line theLine in theVariable
    add 1 to theLineNumber
    if theLine contains theTextToFind then
      put theLineNumber & comma after theLines
    end if
  end repeat
  delete char -1 of theLines -- remove trailing comma
  return theLines
end MyFindLines
##

The 'repeat for each' style of loop is extremely fast
- much faster than the old 'repeat with i = 1 to the
number of lines in theVariable' style.

HTH,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam Reports & PDF Library for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


      


From pepetoo at cox.net  Mon Dec  8 09:57:09 2008
From: pepetoo at cox.net (Joe Lewis Wilkins)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 06:57:09 -0800
Subject: Menu bars on main stack and different menus on substacks
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812080641hd5e0105r483f266744688051@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812080620g77b96f0bl7ef3999b9e80aa25@mail.gmail.com>
	<9B9020FB-11B7-4307-9ECE-FC2D40070FE7@cox.net>
	<459b22a90812080639p18a7cca2g4e1b6bd8b83db044@mail.gmail.com>
	<459b22a90812080641hd5e0105r483f266744688051@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6DD37EAB-BF3E-4269-9672-AD9AFFAC8BC8@cox.net>

Actually Will, as I think I mentioned someplace on the list fairly  
recently, I've recently come to the conclusion that, due to the larger  
screens many of us have these days, placing the Menus at the top of  
the application's window on both Mac and Windows apps seems to be a  
good idea. Also, instead of the usual microscopic menu text I've used  
some larger font sizes to mitigate my own failing eyesight. Like 18  
pt. Arial. Looks real good.

Joe Wilkins

On Dec 8, 2008, at 6:41 AM, william humphrey wrote:

> Seems to me in windows a  whole row of new menu choices is added  
> underneath
> the main menu choices so maybe there is someway to implement  
> something like
> that.
>
> On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 10:39 AM, william humphrey <shoreagent at gmail.com 
> >wrote:
>
>> I would consider anything. Do you think that would look ok on  
>> Windows? I
>> haven't tried looking at anything on windows yet...
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Joe Lewis Wilkins  
>> <pepetoo at cox.net>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Will,
>>>
>>> Have you considered using pop-up menus on the sub-stacks?
>>>
>>> Just a thought.
>>>
>>> Joe Wilkins
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 8, 2008, at 6:20 AM, william humphrey wrote:
>>>
>>> Menubars on main stack and substack
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> I know what happens with a menu on the mainstack and none on any  
>>>> of the
>>>> substacks but I was wondering how to implement a menu that changes
>>>> depending
>>>> on what stack is opened. If you put a different menubar in a  
>>>> substack
>>>> does
>>>> it happen automatically? Can you put just one menu item in the  
>>>> substack
>>>> and
>>>> get it to add that item to the main menu when that substack is  
>>>> open and
>>>> then
>>>> when you go to a different substack a different item is added?
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>



From shoreagent at gmail.com  Mon Dec  8 11:38:53 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 12:38:53 -0400
Subject: Menu bars on main stack and different menus on substacks
In-Reply-To: <6DD37EAB-BF3E-4269-9672-AD9AFFAC8BC8@cox.net>
References: <459b22a90812080620g77b96f0bl7ef3999b9e80aa25@mail.gmail.com>
	<9B9020FB-11B7-4307-9ECE-FC2D40070FE7@cox.net>
	<459b22a90812080639p18a7cca2g4e1b6bd8b83db044@mail.gmail.com>
	<459b22a90812080641hd5e0105r483f266744688051@mail.gmail.com>
	<6DD37EAB-BF3E-4269-9672-AD9AFFAC8BC8@cox.net>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812080838i285f8d6fj979b8281625b3af9@mail.gmail.com>

OK - so you just put a row of pop-ups on each substack as you need menus?
Sounds good. I think I might combine that with the main menu though and see
what happens.

On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Joe Lewis Wilkins <pepetoo at cox.net> wrote:

> Actually Will, as I think I mentioned someplace on the list fairly
> recently, I've recently come to the conclusion that, due to the larger
> screens many of us have these days, placing the Menus at the top of the
> application's window on both Mac and Windows apps seems to be a good idea.
> Also, instead of the usual microscopic menu text I've used some larger font
> sizes to mitigate my own failing eyesight. Like 18 pt. Arial. Looks real
> good.
>
> Joe Wilkins
>
>
> On Dec 8, 2008, at 6:41 AM, william humphrey wrote:
>
>  Seems to me in windows a  whole row of new menu choices is added
>> underneath
>> the main menu choices so maybe there is someway to implement something
>> like
>> that.
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 10:39 AM, william humphrey <shoreagent at gmail.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>>  I would consider anything. Do you think that would look ok on Windows? I
>>> haven't tried looking at anything on windows yet...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Joe Lewis Wilkins <pepetoo at cox.net
>>> >wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hi Will,
>>>>
>>>> Have you considered using pop-up menus on the sub-stacks?
>>>>
>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>
>>>> Joe Wilkins
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 8, 2008, at 6:20 AM, william humphrey wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Menubars on main stack and substack
>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> I know what happens with a menu on the mainstack and none on any of the
>>>>> substacks but I was wondering how to implement a menu that changes
>>>>> depending
>>>>> on what stack is opened. If you put a different menubar in a substack
>>>>> does
>>>>> it happen automatically? Can you put just one menu item in the substack
>>>>> and
>>>>> get it to add that item to the main menu when that substack is open and
>>>>> then
>>>>> when you go to a different substack a different item is added?
>>>>>
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.bluewatermaritime.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Dec  8 11:45:06 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 10:45:06 -0600
Subject: Menu bars on main stack and different menus on substacks
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812080620g77b96f0bl7ef3999b9e80aa25@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812080620g77b96f0bl7ef3999b9e80aa25@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <493D4F12.7070408@hyperactivesw.com>

william humphrey wrote:
> Menubars on main stack and substack
> Hi
> 
> I know what happens with a menu on the mainstack and none on any of the
> substacks but I was wondering how to implement a menu that changes depending
> on what stack is opened. If you put a different menubar in a substack does
> it happen automatically?

On Windows, yes. Menus on that OS are just groups, and they will show up 
automatically in whatever stack you place them.

On Mac OS, the menubar group is moved to the system menu (and the stack 
size is shortened as the menu scrolls out of view off the top.) For that 
OS, you'll need to set the menubar property of the stack to the name of 
the group. You only need to do that once during development. After that, 
whenever the stack comes forward, it's own menubar will replace the 
other one automatically.

Every stack can have its own menubar. If you want no menubar at all on 
Windows it isn't a problem, just don't create one. On Macs, there must 
be something in the system menu; you can't have an empty system menu. 
For Macs, choose one of your menubar groups (from any open stack) and 
set it (once during development) as the defaultMenubar. When you do 
this, the default menu you've set up will display whenever a stack does 
not have its own menubar assigned.

In the IDE, the default menubar belongs to Rev, so you'll see better 
results from this approach if you only set a default menubar in your 
standalone. If you set it during development, you are apt to lose the 
IDE's menubar.

  Can you put just one menu item in the substack and
> get it to add that item to the main menu when that substack is open and then
> when you go to a different substack a different item is added?

You can, but it takes a lot of script tinkering with buttons and 
layering and contents, etc. It's much easier to just duplicate an 
existing menubar, change what's necessary, place it in a stack, and 
assign that as the menubar for the stack.


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From dunbarx at aol.com  Mon Dec  8 11:52:04 2008
From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 11:52:04 -0500
Subject: Newbie3
In-Reply-To: <817911.45000.qm@web65404.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D2BBAB15.0078.4C1E.AAFD.0B58C75BBC2A@aol.com>

Thanks.

This is the sort of thing I wrote, too. HC code would be similar; I'll take your word for the speed.

I was wondering if there was something snazzy in Rev (that was not in HC) that did not require running through the whole body of text, in other words, directly, like the new "replaceText" function that is a one-line substitute for "fullReplace". Very Rinaldi-like.

My initial work in Rev is getting a handle on all my HC XFCN and XCMD stuff. I am trying to figure out what exists in Rev that can be used directly for these sorts of things. After all, I hear that Rev does not need externals, because they basically all exist natively.

On this topic, I like the idea that ancillary windows are implemented as stacks. This could have been done in HC also, but not nearly as well, since the stack types were limited. I used?"megaWindow" by Dan Gelder just everywhere.

Craig Newman



On Dec 8, 2008, at 10:11:37 AM, "Jan Schenkel" <janschenkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
##
function MyFindLines theTextToFind, theVariable
local theLines, theLineNumber
put 0 into theLineNumber
repeat for each line theLine in theVariable
add 1 to theLineNumber
if theLine contains theTextToFind then
put theLineNumber & comma after theLines
end if
end repeat
delete char -1 of theLines -- remove trailing comma
return theLines
end MyFindLines
##

The 'repeat for each' style of loop is extremely fast
- much faster than the old 'repeat with i = 1 to the
number of lines in theVariable' style.

HTH,



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Dec  8 11:52:43 2008
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 08:52:43 -0800
Subject: variable storage
In-Reply-To: <665591460812071510v328776a0pa83029e035296bfb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081207180004.8D85D48A2DE@mail.runrev.com>
	<493C1057.3040209@fourthworld.com>
	<665591460812071131q597e9cc3hbb182738a82a564c@mail.gmail.com>
	<8A6B0639-68A7-4D56-9B42-948EA53FFD24@mac.com>
	<665591460812071510v328776a0pa83029e035296bfb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58500043203.20081208085243@ahsoftware.net>

Chipp-

Sunday, December 7, 2008, 3:10:13 PM, you wrote:

> Awhile back, I wrote a library which enabled the sharing of rev
> controls from one stack to another over the internet. I sent controls
> back and forth using the properties function wrapped in XML, and then
> after 're-making' a control, I compared checksums of the new control
> with the original, and found they did not match. The listed items
> mentioned in my previous email had to be removed from the properties
> of a control so they would match properly.

I ran into this a while back as well. The "problem" is that rev
assigns an id to a control when it's created, and the id is not
something that can be changed except for images. I don't see the need
for the id to be immutable and filed bz #4046 two years ago as an
enhancement request (it's still marked "unconfirmed"). IMO this is the
biggest single obstacle (read "blocker") preventing the recreation of
objects from property lists.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From francois.chaplais at mines-paristech.fr  Mon Dec  8 12:17:17 2008
From: francois.chaplais at mines-paristech.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_Chaplais?=)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 18:17:17 +0100
Subject: variable storage
In-Reply-To: <58500043203.20081208085243@ahsoftware.net>
References: <20081207180004.8D85D48A2DE@mail.runrev.com>
	<493C1057.3040209@fourthworld.com>
	<665591460812071131q597e9cc3hbb182738a82a564c@mail.gmail.com>
	<8A6B0639-68A7-4D56-9B42-948EA53FFD24@mac.com>
	<665591460812071510v328776a0pa83029e035296bfb@mail.gmail.com>
	<58500043203.20081208085243@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <40C19B24-1FFE-4051-9E8D-21BF8D1CE067@mines-paristech.fr>


Le 8 d?c. 08 ? 17:52, Mark Wieder a ?crit :

> Chipp-
>
> Sunday, December 7, 2008, 3:10:13 PM, you wrote:
>
>> Awhile back, I wrote a library which enabled the sharing of rev
>> controls from one stack to another over the internet. I sent controls
>> back and forth using the properties function wrapped in XML, and then
>> after 're-making' a control, I compared checksums of the new control
>> with the original, and found they did not match. The listed items
>> mentioned in my previous email had to be removed from the properties
>> of a control so they would match properly.
>
> I ran into this a while back as well. The "problem" is that rev
> assigns an id to a control when it's created, and the id is not
> something that can be changed except for images. I don't see the need
> for the id to be immutable and filed bz #4046 two years ago as an
> enhancement request (it's still marked "unconfirmed"). IMO this is the
> biggest single obstacle (read "blocker") preventing the recreation of
> objects from property lists.
>
> --  
> -Mark Wieder
> mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>

well, in maths, it is said that a set cannot be an element of itself.  
In rev, if the control ID is synonymous to the control itself, it  
cannot be a property of the control. On the practical side, if you  
duplicate a control *including* the ID, you will end with two controls  
having the same ID, which is a no-no. This ID stuff has to be managed  
by the engine.

cheers,

Fran?ois


From pepetoo at cox.net  Mon Dec  8 12:28:55 2008
From: pepetoo at cox.net (Joe Lewis Wilkins)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 09:28:55 -0800
Subject: Menu bars on main stack and different menus on substacks
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812080838i285f8d6fj979b8281625b3af9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812080620g77b96f0bl7ef3999b9e80aa25@mail.gmail.com>
	<9B9020FB-11B7-4307-9ECE-FC2D40070FE7@cox.net>
	<459b22a90812080639p18a7cca2g4e1b6bd8b83db044@mail.gmail.com>
	<459b22a90812080641hd5e0105r483f266744688051@mail.gmail.com>
	<6DD37EAB-BF3E-4269-9672-AD9AFFAC8BC8@cox.net>
	<459b22a90812080838i285f8d6fj979b8281625b3af9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A8F37E26-B6F8-4A70-80E0-DF1EEC5483CD@cox.net>

Well, you wouldn't need more than one pop-up menu on each stack unless  
you wanted to, since a single menu could have a whole bunch of  
different items in it. You might want to group them by type, however,  
and have several if you need them.

Joe Wilkins

On Dec 8, 2008, at 8:38 AM, william humphrey wrote:

> OK - so you just put a row of pop-ups on each substack as you need  
> menus?
> Sounds good. I think I might combine that with the main menu though  
> and see
> what happens.
>
> On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Joe Lewis Wilkins <pepetoo at cox.net>  
> wrote:
>
>> Actually Will, as I think I mentioned someplace on the list fairly
>> recently, I've recently come to the conclusion that, due to the  
>> larger
>> screens many of us have these days, placing the Menus at the top of  
>> the
>> application's window on both Mac and Windows apps seems to be a  
>> good idea.
>> Also, instead of the usual microscopic menu text I've used some  
>> larger font
>> sizes to mitigate my own failing eyesight. Like 18 pt. Arial. Looks  
>> real
>> good.
>>
>> Joe Wilkins
>>
>>
>> On Dec 8, 2008, at 6:41 AM, william humphrey wrote:
>>
>> Seems to me in windows a  whole row of new menu choices is added
>>> underneath
>>> the main menu choices so maybe there is someway to implement  
>>> something
>>> like
>>> that.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 10:39 AM, william humphrey <shoreagent at gmail.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I would consider anything. Do you think that would look ok on  
>>> Windows? I
>>>> haven't tried looking at anything on windows yet...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Joe Lewis Wilkins <pepetoo at cox.net
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Will,
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you considered using pop-up menus on the sub-stacks?
>>>>>
>>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe Wilkins
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 8, 2008, at 6:20 AM, william humphrey wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Menubars on main stack and substack
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know what happens with a menu on the mainstack and none on  
>>>>>> any of the
>>>>>> substacks but I was wondering how to implement a menu that  
>>>>>> changes
>>>>>> depending
>>>>>> on what stack is opened. If you put a different menubar in a  
>>>>>> substack
>>>>>> does
>>>>>> it happen automatically? Can you put just one menu item in the  
>>>>>> substack
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> get it to add that item to the main menu when that substack is  
>>>>>> open and
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> when you go to a different substack a different item is added?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________








From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Dec  8 12:35:14 2008
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 09:35:14 -0800
Subject: Newbie3
In-Reply-To: <817911.45000.qm@web65404.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <817911.45000.qm@web65404.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <65502594125.20081208093514@ahsoftware.net>

Craig-

Here's a variation using an array:

function MyFindLines pTextToFind, pVariable
  local tArray
  local tLineNumber

  put 0 into tLineNumber
  repeat for each line tLine in pVariable
    if pTextToFind is in tLine then
      put tLine into tArray[tLineNumber]
    end if
    add 1 to tLineNumber
  end repeat
  return tArray
end MyFindLines

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Dec  8 12:49:06 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 09:49:06 -0800
Subject: Newbie3
Message-ID: <493D5E12.9040700@fourthworld.com>

dunbarx wrote:

 > This is the sort of thing I wrote, too. HC code would be similar
 > ; I'll take your word for the speed.
 >
 > I was wondering if there was something snazzy in Rev (that was not
 > in HC) that did not require running through the whole body of text,
 > in other words, directly, like the new "replaceText" function that
 > is a one-line substitute for "fullReplace". Very Rinaldi-like.

While the algorithms you would use in Rev and HC may appear similar in 
some respects, don't underestimate the power of "repeat for each".  This 
form of repeat was not available in HC, and is at least one or two 
orders of magnitude faster than "repeat with i = 1 to the number of 
lines...".

The reason for the incredible speed difference between the two is that 
"repeat for each" makes the assumption (indeed requires) that the text 
being parsed will not change during the repeat, while "repeat with..." 
cannot know this in advance.

So when running "repeat with i = 1 to the number of lines", each time 
through the loop it needs to count the lines from 1 to i, and then you 
can say "get line i" and that will once again count from 1 to i to 
obtain the line.  Lots of redundant overhead, but necessary in a form in 
which the text being parsed might be changing in each iteration.

In contrast, "repeat for each" counts and parses chunks as it goes, 
doing two operations at once (going to the line and parsing it out into 
the iteration variable) and never counting its way through the text 
within a given iteration, since it knows where it left off last time.


To make things even faster, a few years ago Scott Raney optimized the 
"put <text> after <othertext>" operation, with a dramatic speed boost. 
In most xTalks, modifying a chunk means a fair amount of overhead with 
multiple copies of the destination text to accommodate the change.  With 
"put...after..." the underlying pointer manipulation has been 
significantly optimized specifically for that append operation, so it's 
much faster in Rev than any other xTalk I've seen (and I've worked with 
most of them, including HC, SC, Plus, OMO, Gain Momentum, and ToolBook).

These two constructs, "repeat for each..." and "put...after...", combine 
well for most common parsing tasks, making extraordinarily efficient 
work of slicing through even large blocks of data and combining your 
found results into a new variable.


And then there are arrays, variables with slots for each element which 
can be referenced by the element name.

In HC, multi-part data could be stored in a given variable only by 
carefully minding your chunks, e.g.:

   put tData into line 4000 of tMyVar

This means that you not only need to make sure that tData never contains 
any character you're using to delimit your chunks, but also that 
accessing it will require the overhead of counting chunks to access thte 
one you want:

   get line 4000 of tMyVar

Arrays use an internal hashing scheme so that element names are 
associated with the location of the element's data in a much more 
efficient way.  To store data you just use:

   put tData into tMyVar[4000]

And to get it:

   get tMyVar[4000]

But the real advantage of arrays is that you're not limited to indexing 
them by number; you can use names instead.

For example, if you wanted to store info about a person in a chunk, you 
might use:

   put tName into line 1 of tMyVar
   put tPhone into line 2 of tMyVar
   put tAddress into line 3 of tMyVar

Works well enough - as long as you remember which line has which data. 
So this requires adding comments in your code to remind you later on how 
the data is structured.

With arrays this is much simpler:

   put tName into tMyVar["name"]
   put tPhone into tMyVar["phone"]
   put tAddress into tMyVar["address"]

If you need to display all of the elements of an array, you can combine 
them with the "combine" command:

   combine tMyVar with return and tab
   put tMyVar into fld 1

You can also convert a list into an array with the split command:

   put fld 1 into tMyVar
   split tMyVar with return and tab


In summary, there's a bit of a learning curve with picking up the most 
efficient ways to do things in Rev.  But it's time well spent, because 
in most cases you'll be free to munge data however you want right in the 
language, liberated from dependencies on externals written in C.

And given the overhead of the XCMD interface, you might even find that 
some of these operations actually run faster in Transcript than in the 
externals you used to use.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From dunbarx at aol.com  Mon Dec  8 13:13:34 2008
From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 13:13:34 -0500
Subject: Newbie3
In-Reply-To: <493D5E12.9040700@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <0A87C60A.B35A.4A4F.AF60.C7A9973D4E0F@aol.com>

Richard:

Thank you.

I get all that, and must admit it sounds impressive. I'll make large piles of data and play around with the several forms.

My poor, neglected HC...

Craig Newman


On Dec 8, 2008, at 12:49:06 PM, "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
From:   "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
Subject:    Re: Newbie3
Date:   December 8, 2008 12:49:06 PM EST
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
dunbarx wrote:

> This is the sort of thing I wrote, too. HC code would be similar
> ; I'll take your word for the speed.
>
> I was wondering if there was something snazzy in Rev (that was not
> in HC) that did not require running through the whole body of text,
> in other words, directly, like the new "replaceText" function that
> is a one-line substitute for "fullReplace". Very Rinaldi-like.

While the algorithms you would use in Rev and HC may appear similar in?
some respects, don't underestimate the power of "repeat for each". This?
form of repeat was not available in HC, and is at least one or two?
orders of magnitude faster than "repeat with i = 1 to the number of?
lines...".

The reason for the incredible speed difference between the two is that?
"repeat for each" makes the assumption (indeed requires) that the text?
being parsed will not change during the repeat, while "repeat with..."?
cannot know this in advance.

So when running "repeat with i = 1 to the number of lines", each time?
through the loop it needs to count the lines from 1 to i, and then you?
can say "get line i" and that will once again count from 1 to i to?
obtain the line. Lots of redundant overhead, but necessary
...
...


From dunbarx at aol.com  Mon Dec  8 13:17:34 2008
From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 13:17:34 -0500
Subject: Newbie4
In-Reply-To: <493D5E12.9040700@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <6515FF02.B955.413E.9A3C.51C7E107983C@aol.com>

All;

I see there is a text length limit of 15K for messages to this list. Have to be careful to truncate long posts when replying.

Nice that Rev itself ?has no such limits. My one annoyance with HC fields and scripts.

Craig Newman


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Dec  8 13:25:28 2008
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 10:25:28 -0800
Subject: variable storage
In-Reply-To: <40C19B24-1FFE-4051-9E8D-21BF8D1CE067@mines-paristech.fr>
References: <20081207180004.8D85D48A2DE@mail.runrev.com>
	<493C1057.3040209@fourthworld.com>
	<665591460812071131q597e9cc3hbb182738a82a564c@mail.gmail.com>
	<8A6B0639-68A7-4D56-9B42-948EA53FFD24@mac.com>
	<665591460812071510v328776a0pa83029e035296bfb@mail.gmail.com>
	<58500043203.20081208085243@ahsoftware.net>
	<40C19B24-1FFE-4051-9E8D-21BF8D1CE067@mines-paristech.fr>
Message-ID: <104505608109.20081208102528@ahsoftware.net>

Fran?ois-

Monday, December 8, 2008, 9:17:17 AM, you wrote:

> cannot be a property of the control. On the practical side, if you
> duplicate a control *including* the ID, you will end with two controls
> having the same ID, which is a no-no. This ID stuff has to be managed
> by the engine.

Right, but if there's no control with the id 9876 then I shouldn't be
prevented from saying

create button
set the id of it to 9876

That's what prevents me from recreating a control entirely from its
properties.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Dec  8 13:36:42 2008
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 10:36:42 -0800
Subject: Newbie3
In-Reply-To: <65502594125.20081208093514@ahsoftware.net>
References: <817911.45000.qm@web65404.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<65502594125.20081208093514@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <102506282031.20081208103642@ahsoftware.net>

Craig-

...and if you just want to display the multiple occurrences visually

on MyFindLines pTextToFind
  local tVariable

  put the htmltext of field "whatever" into tVariable
  replace pTextToFind with "<u>" & pTextToFind & "</u>" in tVariable
  set the htmltext of field "whatever" to tVariable
end MyFindLines

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Dec  8 13:38:18 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 12:38:18 -0600
Subject: Newbie3
In-Reply-To: <907A058B.DA30.4754.9A08.C8E15D067EE8@aol.com>
References: <907A058B.DA30.4754.9A08.C8E15D067EE8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <493D699A.1060807@hyperactivesw.com>

dunbarx wrote:

> The
> lineOffset function only returns the first instance, so additional
> processing is required to get all of them.

That's why the last parameter is important; it allows you to search for 
an offset starting at a particular location. If you omit the last 
parameter, the search always starts at 1.

So this:

   get lineoffset(var,"ab")

will consistently return the first instance in the text variable. You 
need to set up a "skip" parameter:

   put 0 into skip
   repeat
    put lineoffset("ab",var,skip) into tResult
    if tResult = 0 then exit repeat
    put tResult & comma after tList
    add tResult to skip -- start next search at last found location
   end repeat

> So, wow me with Rev's
> arsenal. How to do it without a repeat loop? Find all "ab" in:
> 
> abc def abc
> 
> I want "1,3" back at me, or somesuch.

You need the repeat loop above, but it is extremely fast. You can 
process many thousands of lines in under a second, usually. The above 
gives you what you want, provided you are looking for the exact string 
match for "ab". You could also get chunk info instead:

   put fld 1 into var
   put 0 into skip
   repeat
     put lineoffset("ab",var,skip) into tLine
     if tLine = 0 then exit repeat
     add tLine to skip
     get matchChunk(line skip of var,"(ab)",tMatchStart,tMatchEnd)
     put tMatchStart && tMatchEnd & cr after tList
   end repeat

This gives the start and end position of the string you are searching 
for, within the line you are looking at. So if you get "1 3" in the 
match, then the chunk refered to would be "char 1 to 3 of line <skip> of 
fld 1".

If you want a regex search instead of an exact match for "ab" then you'd 
  set up a filter first and then run a variation of the above repeat on 
the results of your filtered text. Something like this:

   put fld 1 into var
   filter var with "a*b*"
   repeat for each line tLine in var
     get matchChunk(tLine,"(a
     put tMatchStart && tMatchEnd & cr after tList
   end repeat

Or you could use matchtext instead to extract the exact text.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Dec  8 13:41:38 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 12:41:38 -0600
Subject: Newbie3
In-Reply-To: <493D699A.1060807@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <907A058B.DA30.4754.9A08.C8E15D067EE8@aol.com>
	<493D699A.1060807@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <493D6A62.8000409@hyperactivesw.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:

> So this:
> 
>   get lineoffset(var,"ab")

Oops, I reversed the params. The rest of my examples are correctly 
formatted though. Sorry about that; brain fart.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Dec  8 13:45:35 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 12:45:35 -0600
Subject: Newbie3
In-Reply-To: <493D699A.1060807@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <907A058B.DA30.4754.9A08.C8E15D067EE8@aol.com>
	<493D699A.1060807@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <493D6B4F.9080707@hyperactivesw.com>

I'm apparently not running on all cylinders today. My copy/paste didn't. 
Here's a corrected version, after which I think I'll bow out gracefully 
for today:

> If you want a regex search instead of an exact match for "ab" then you'd 
>  set up a filter first and then run a variation of the above repeat on 
> the results of your filtered text. Something like this:
> 
>   put fld 1 into var
>   filter var with "a*b*"
>   repeat for each line tLine in var
>     get matchChunk(tLine,"(a*b*)",tMatchStart,tMatchEnd)
>     put tMatchStart && tMatchEnd & cr after tList
>   end repeat


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From dunbarx at aol.com  Mon Dec  8 14:23:55 2008
From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 14:23:55 -0500
Subject: Newbie3
In-Reply-To: <493D699A.1060807@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <907A058B.DA30.4754.9A08.C8E15D067EE8@aol.com>
	<493D699A.1060807@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <8CB2781A55CD667-958-69@Webmail-mg06.sim.aol.com>

Thanks,

I can live with repeats if they are fast. These are. So be it.


-----Original Message-----
From: J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 1:38 pm
Subject: Re: Newbie3


dunbarx wrote:?
?
> The?
> lineOffset function only returns the first instance, so additional?
> processing is required to get all of them.?
?
That's why the last parameter is important; it allows you to search for an offset starting at a particular location. If you omit the last parameter, the search always starts at 1.?
?
So this:?
?
? get lineoffset(var,"ab")?
?
will consistently return the first instance in the text variable. You need to set up a "skip" parameter:?
?
? put 0 into skip?
? repeat?
? put lineoffset("ab",var,skip) into tResult?
? if tResult = 0 then exit repeat?
? put tResult & comma after tList?
? add tResult to skip -- start next search at last found location?
? end repeat?
?
> So, wow me with Rev's?
> arsenal. How to do it without a repeat loop? Find all "ab" in:?
> > abc def abc?
> > I want "1,3" back at me, or somesuch.?
?
You need the repeat loop above, but it is extremely fast. You can process many thousands of lines in under a second, usually. The above gives you what you want, provided you are looking for the exact string match for "ab". You could also get chunk info instead:?
?
? put fld 1 into var?
? put 0 into skip?
? repeat?
? put lineoffset("ab",var,skip) into tLine?
? if tLine = 0 then exit repeat?
? add tLine to skip?
? get matchChunk(line skip of var,"(ab)",tMatchStart,tMatchEnd)?
? put tMatchStart && tMatchEnd & cr after tList?
? end repeat?
?
This gives the start and end position of the string you are searching for, within the line you are looking at. So if you get "1 3" in the match, then the chunk refered to would be "char 1 to 3 of line <skip> of fld 1".?
?
If you want a regex search instead of an exact match for "ab" then you'd ?set up a filter first and then run a variation of the above repeat on the results of your filtered text. Something like this:?
?
? put fld 1 into var?
? filter var with "a*b*"?
? repeat for each line tLine in var?
? get matchChunk(tLine,"(a?
? put tMatchStart && tMatchEnd & cr after tList?
? end repeat?
?
Or you could use matchtext instead to extract the exact text.?
?
-- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com?
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com?
_______________________________________________?
use-revolution mailing list?
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com?
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:?
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution?



From francois.chaplais at mines-paristech.fr  Mon Dec  8 15:07:35 2008
From: francois.chaplais at mines-paristech.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_Chaplais?=)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 21:07:35 +0100
Subject: variable storage
In-Reply-To: <104505608109.20081208102528@ahsoftware.net>
References: <20081207180004.8D85D48A2DE@mail.runrev.com>
	<493C1057.3040209@fourthworld.com>
	<665591460812071131q597e9cc3hbb182738a82a564c@mail.gmail.com>
	<8A6B0639-68A7-4D56-9B42-948EA53FFD24@mac.com>
	<665591460812071510v328776a0pa83029e035296bfb@mail.gmail.com>
	<58500043203.20081208085243@ahsoftware.net>
	<40C19B24-1FFE-4051-9E8D-21BF8D1CE067@mines-paristech.fr>
	<104505608109.20081208102528@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <ADE7061A-49B1-4E68-87F7-6014EBC4808E@mines-paristech.fr>


Le 8 d?c. 08 ? 19:25, Mark Wieder a ?crit :

> Fran?ois-
>
> Monday, December 8, 2008, 9:17:17 AM, you wrote:
>
>> cannot be a property of the control. On the practical side, if you
>> duplicate a control *including* the ID, you will end with two  
>> controls
>> having the same ID, which is a no-no. This ID stuff has to be managed
>> by the engine.
>
> Right, but if there's no control with the id 9876 then I shouldn't be
> prevented from saying
>

that's a big "if". I assume that the purpose of an object's ID is to  
be unique. This cannot be verified by a single user, IMHO. The closest  
thing that comes to my mind is when Apple, when launching the Mac,  
used a  system to attach a creator to a file, which corresponded to a  
unique application. To enforce that uniqueness, Apple kept a   
repository of all four letter application signature, and any  
programmer which wanted to distribute an application was supposed to  
submit the signature for approval by Apple.

Now, of course, you can do anything you want (after all, it's only a  
bunch of 0s and 1s), but it would most probably defeat the purpose of  
an ID.

(BTW, "you" is a generic one, I do not me Mark specifically.)

cheers,
	Francois

> create button
> set the id of it to 9876
>
> That's what prevents me from recreating a control entirely from its
> properties.
>
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
> mwieder at ahsoftware.net




From bvg at mac.com  Mon Dec  8 16:35:38 2008
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 22:35:38 +0100
Subject: variable storage
In-Reply-To: <ADE7061A-49B1-4E68-87F7-6014EBC4808E@mines-paristech.fr>
References: <20081207180004.8D85D48A2DE@mail.runrev.com>
	<493C1057.3040209@fourthworld.com>
	<665591460812071131q597e9cc3hbb182738a82a564c@mail.gmail.com>
	<8A6B0639-68A7-4D56-9B42-948EA53FFD24@mac.com>
	<665591460812071510v328776a0pa83029e035296bfb@mail.gmail.com>
	<58500043203.20081208085243@ahsoftware.net>
	<40C19B24-1FFE-4051-9E8D-21BF8D1CE067@mines-paristech.fr>
	<104505608109.20081208102528@ahsoftware.net>
	<ADE7061A-49B1-4E68-87F7-6014EBC4808E@mines-paristech.fr>
Message-ID: <118D0724-359C-47ED-9992-93624999338D@mac.com>

Actually it is possible to have the same ID for various objects, as  
long as they're not in the same stack (no matter what card). You can  
test this easily yourself, as there is an object type that you can set  
the id for: images

Theoretically this allows to override (to use a c++ term) icons, as  
they're always set by ID. Why this is  deemed impossible for  
everything else, but works quite nicely for images, seems rather  
strange to me.

On 8 Dec 2008, at 21:07, Fran?ois Chaplais wrote:

>
> Le 8 d?c. 08 ? 19:25, Mark Wieder a ?crit :
>
>> Fran?ois-
>>
>> Monday, December 8, 2008, 9:17:17 AM, you wrote:
>>
>>> cannot be a property of the control. On the practical side, if you
>>> duplicate a control *including* the ID, you will end with two  
>>> controls
>>> having the same ID, which is a no-no. This ID stuff has to be  
>>> managed
>>> by the engine.
>>
>> Right, but if there's no control with the id 9876 then I shouldn't be
>> prevented from saying
>>
>
> that's a big "if". I assume that the purpose of an object's ID is to  
> be unique. This cannot be verified by a single user, IMHO. The  
> closest thing that comes to my mind is when Apple, when launching  
> the Mac, used a  system to attach a creator to a file, which  
> corresponded to a unique application. To enforce that uniqueness,  
> Apple kept a  repository of all four letter application signature,  
> and any programmer which wanted to distribute an application was  
> supposed to submit the signature for approval by Apple.
>
> Now, of course, you can do anything you want (after all, it's only a  
> bunch of 0s and 1s), but it would most probably defeat the purpose  
> of an ID.
>
> (BTW, "you" is a generic one, I do not me Mark specifically.)
>
> cheers,
> 	Francois
>
>> create button
>> set the id of it to 9876
>>
>> That's what prevents me from recreating a control entirely from its
>> properties.
>>
>> -- 
>> -Mark Wieder
>> mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From runrev at aboutmyfiles.com  Mon Dec  8 18:23:41 2008
From: runrev at aboutmyfiles.com (Mark E. Powell)
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 23:23:41 +0000
Subject: How do I maximize script editor window in 3.0
Message-ID: <W781872455299871228778621@webmail27>

Just upgraded to 3.0 on XP.  The script editor winodw won't resize to screen size, either on my large second monitor or on the 1280x768 startup monitor.  The maximize button wont show more than 35 lines, and nothing is resizable.  Am I missing something obvious?




From alex at harryscollar.com  Mon Dec  8 23:27:03 2008
From: alex at harryscollar.com (Alex Shaw)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 14:27:03 +1000
Subject: Native Client
In-Reply-To: <W781872455299871228778621@webmail27>
References: <W781872455299871228778621@webmail27>
Message-ID: <493DF397.20507@harryscollar.com>

Hi

Has anyone had a chance to play with Google's Native Client?

I'm not a python expert but it seems an interesting way of getting 
native (possibly rev) apps running in a browser.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10118792-92.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

http://code.google.com/p/nativeclient/

regards
alex


From palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Dec  9 03:51:56 2008
From: palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk (Peter Alcibiades)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 00:51:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Linux Distro choices [was:  Ubuntu...etc]
In-Reply-To: <9b408d8e0812080708k42b9da3bt1959c6f1457d0117@mail.gmail.com>
References: <572580.75735.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20879415.post@talk.nabble.com> <493BB3A7.20608@laposte.net>
	<9b408d8e0812070759j278a7d33ic307a7014b2d6de@mail.gmail.com>
	<20890510.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<9b408d8e0812080708k42b9da3bt1959c6f1457d0117@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20910826.post@talk.nabble.com>


Of course its a thorny issue, and it depends what you want, who you are, and
what your machine is.  I don't think you lose anything by moving from
Ubuntu.  Like many other long term Linux users, I'm a bit baffled by its
popularity.

On old machines try Zenwalk (slackware based and uses Xfce).  If this is
still too slow, try a minimal Debian with fluxbox as the WM.  If this is too
slow, Puppy.

If you want to learn, really learn, Linux, but do not have unlimited time
and energy to do it (if you do, Linux from Scratch is the one), get
Slackware and study the user guide.

If you are an active user, but don't like the command line, and speed of
machine is not an issue, Mandriva.  If you can manage with the slightly
reduced package selection in its repositories, PCLinux is also a sensible
choice.  Mandriva is larger and better resourced, PCL is a bit of a one man
band, but a very good community.  Its derived from Mandriva.  But be
prepared in both cases to do a new install when you want to upgrade, which
will probably be every couple of years or so.  Do not install Mandriva 2009
if you want to use KDE. In that case use 2008.1 And use the ONE version, not
the FREE version.

If you are ready to use the command line for administration, value
stability, dislike doing full installations for system upgrades, don't
require exhaustive and up to date user documentation, and are not all that
bothered about having the latest versions of everything, Debian Stable.  At
the moment that means Etch and not Lenny.  This is also a good choice for
the lay user who just wants an appliance for email, web, office, if you are
going to maintain it for them.  But do not give Debian to an enterprising
but relatively non-technical user - what they try to do will involve more
than they bargained for.  For them, Mandriva or PCL will be a lot better. 
You should use the 386 not the 64 bit version of Debian, unless you really
need to address the extra memory.

My own strategy with Debian has been, stay with Stable until Testing has
been in the field for a year or so, and is on RC1 or RC2.  Then move to
Testing.  I've had some problems however lately installing the latest build
of Lenny, which suggest rather that the smart thing is probably to stay with
Stable all the time.  I used to install Mandriva for naive users because it
was easier to administer, but then discovered that administering it was the
last thing they had in mind!

Its hard to judge from people's posts, so it would be a hard choice, but
tentatively, for you, I'd go to Mandriva One 2008.1, KDE version. Or PCL. 
You can try Mandriva out as a live CD first.  

But in the end, for the committed, Debian is where we end up, and if you
stick with Linux, you'll end up there too.  Its just a question of when. 
One day you wake up, look at your machine, and you know this is the time to
go to Debian.

Debian or Mandriva will do equally well on laptops.
 

Mikey-3 wrote:
> 
> OK, to sum, we have a couple of opinions on a client distro.  Do we
> have a recommendation on Debian vs. Mandriva?
> 
> This is a lappie.
> 
> What am I giving up by punting on Ubuntu?
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/-OT--Ubuntu-8.10%3A-headaches-and-nothing-else.-tp20870256p20910826.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From rev at armbase.com  Tue Dec  9 05:17:36 2008
From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 10:17:36 +0000
Subject: Linux Distro choices [was:  Ubuntu...etc]
In-Reply-To: <20910826.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <572580.75735.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<20879415.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<493BB3A7.20608@laposte.net>	<9b408d8e0812070759j278a7d33ic307a7014b2d6de@mail.gmail.com>	<20890510.post@talk.nabble.com>	<9b408d8e0812080708k42b9da3bt1959c6f1457d0117@mail.gmail.com>
	<20910826.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <493E45C0.4030003@armbase.com>

Peter Alcibiades wrote:
> Of course its a thorny issue, and it depends what you want, who you are, and
> what your machine is.  I don't think you lose anything by moving from
> Ubuntu.  Like many other long term Linux users, I'm a bit baffled by its
> popularity.
>   

I totally agree with what Peter has written. However, I have a couple of 
chip in's.

I too never understood the popularity of Ubuntu.
> On old machines try Zenwalk (slackware based and uses Xfce).  If this is
> still too slow, try a minimal Debian with fluxbox as the WM.  If this is too
> slow, Puppy.
>   

On older machines or even new one's where you want speed try 
Vectorlinux. A new V 6 is out soon.
> If you want to learn, really learn, Linux, but do not have unlimited time
> and energy to do it (if you do, Linux from Scratch is the one), get
> Slackware and study the user guide.
>   

Vector is Slacky based
> If you are an active user, but don't like the command line, and speed of
> machine is not an issue, Mandriva.  If you can manage with the slightly
> reduced package selection in its repositories, PCLinux is also a sensible
> choice.  Mandriva is larger and better resourced, PCL is a bit of a one man
> band, but a very good community.  Its derived from Mandriva.  But be
> prepared in both cases to do a new install when you want to upgrade, which
> will probably be every couple of years or so.  Do not install Mandriva 2009
> if you want to use KDE. In that case use 2008.1 And use the ONE version, not
> the FREE version.
>   

if you download flv's from youtube (I do) then 2008.1 with KDE and 
Kaffeine is ideal. I moved to 2009 and kaffeine  is sound only. Need to 
sort that one.
If you want to your base machine on 2009 then use nxserver and SSH. 
Indeed when you get more proficient you will end up getting your desktop 
via NXclient-server rather than the normal way (long story).

Another alternative (and slightly behind the times in kernel etc) is 
Xandros. It just works out of the box for... well just about everythign. 
But you got to pay.
>  For them, Mandriva or PCL will be a lot better. 
> You should use the 386 not the 64 bit version of Debian, unless you really
> need to address the extra memory.
>   

PCLinuxOS is very good indeed.
> My own strategy with Debian has been, stay with Stable until Testing has
> been in the field for a year or so, and is on RC1 or RC2.  Then move to
> Testing.  I've had some problems however lately installing the latest build
> of Lenny, which suggest rather that the smart thing is probably to stay with
> Stable all the time.  I used to install Mandriva for naive users because it
> was easier to administer, but then discovered that administering it was the
> last thing they had in mind!
>   

Mandriva can be a pain when you get tinto the nuitty gritty, but out of 
the box on this corporate network... It detected everything out of the 
box (or should that be CD). Much easier that windows.
PS I'm not slagging windows. Unlike many Linux users I think windows is 
a good OS.
> Its hard to judge from people's posts, so it would be a hard choice, but
> tentatively, for you, I'd go to Mandriva One 2008.1, KDE version. Or PCL. 
> You can try Mandriva out as a live CD first.  
>
> But in the end, for the committed, Debian is where we end up, and if you
> stick with Linux, you'll end up there too.  Its just a question of when. 
> One day you wake up, look at your machine, and you know this is the time to
> go to Debian.
>
> Debian or Mandriva will do equally well on laptops.
>   
I aggree. One thing about Ubuntu. As it tries to become a "jack of all 
trades" it is becoming slower.
I see that Vector LInux 6 has a new setup and new wifi setup. (wifi 
drove me away from it to Xandros back in the old days) so give it a try. 
It is really fast.
If it don't work then try Mandriva.

Cheers
Bob



From rev at armbase.com  Tue Dec  9 05:22:00 2008
From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 10:22:00 +0000
Subject: Happy Birthday.... My Little Mouse
Message-ID: <493E46C8.7040705@armbase.com>

Hi All

The Mouse is 40 today... :-) Happy Birthday. :-)

see it here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7768481.stm

Cheers
Bob


From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Tue Dec  9 08:49:26 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 05:49:26 -0800
Subject: Happy Birthday.... My Little Mouse
In-Reply-To: <493E46C8.7040705@armbase.com>
References: <493E46C8.7040705@armbase.com>
Message-ID: <4be051070812090549g412b143cp344fb4a9e047669e@mail.gmail.com>

May we all light a candle today and remember Doug Engelbart!
(You know, I'm always a little horrified when my CS students don't even know
who he is/was...).

Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:22 AM, Bob Hartley <rev at armbase.com> wrote:

> Hi All
>
> The Mouse is 40 today... :-) Happy Birthday. :-)
>
> see it here
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7768481.stm
>
> Cheers
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From r.venzl-schubert at macbay.de  Tue Dec  9 09:38:14 2008
From: r.venzl-schubert at macbay.de (Reinhold Venzl-Schubert)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 15:38:14 +0100
Subject: How to set the cursor at the end of a textfield
Message-ID: <422AB86B-FAA3-48EA-A838-14A3916CCAB3@macbay.de>

Hi!

How can I set the cursor to the end of the text in a field.
with > focus fld "text" > the cursor is placed a the start of the text  
in the fld.

Thanks
Reinhold


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Dec  9 09:40:13 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 15:40:13 +0100
Subject: How to set the cursor at the end of a textfield
In-Reply-To: <422AB86B-FAA3-48EA-A838-14A3916CCAB3@macbay.de>
References: <422AB86B-FAA3-48EA-A838-14A3916CCAB3@macbay.de>
Message-ID: <E3871875-E408-40D5-A2D7-56C167744387@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonjour Reinhold,

Select after text of fld <MyField>

Le 9 d?c. 08 ? 15:38, Reinhold Venzl-Schubert a ?crit :

> How can I set the cursor to the end of the text in a field.
> with > focus fld "text" > the cursor is placed a the start of the  
> text in the fld.

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From mikeythek at gmail.com  Tue Dec  9 10:19:41 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 10:19:41 -0500
Subject: Linux Distro choices [was: Ubuntu...etc]
In-Reply-To: <493E45C0.4030003@armbase.com>
References: <572580.75735.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20879415.post@talk.nabble.com> <493BB3A7.20608@laposte.net>
	<9b408d8e0812070759j278a7d33ic307a7014b2d6de@mail.gmail.com>
	<20890510.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<9b408d8e0812080708k42b9da3bt1959c6f1457d0117@mail.gmail.com>
	<20910826.post@talk.nabble.com> <493E45C0.4030003@armbase.com>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812090719g1ddaf647s11525182be755765@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, guys.  I'll add an extra partition or two.  I had given up on
Mandrake, so I guess I'll give it another shot.

As for KDE, like Mandrake, I never liked it, so I gave up on it and
went Gnome full time.  It will probably take more work to convince me
to go back to that window environment.


From palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Dec  9 10:22:00 2008
From: palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk (Peter Alcibiades)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 07:22:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Linux Distro choices [was:  Ubuntu...etc]
In-Reply-To: <493E45C0.4030003@armbase.com>
References: <572580.75735.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20879415.post@talk.nabble.com> <493BB3A7.20608@laposte.net>
	<9b408d8e0812070759j278a7d33ic307a7014b2d6de@mail.gmail.com>
	<20890510.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<9b408d8e0812080708k42b9da3bt1959c6f1457d0117@mail.gmail.com>
	<20910826.post@talk.nabble.com> <493E45C0.4030003@armbase.com>
Message-ID: <20916661.post@talk.nabble.com>


Yes, agreed on Vector.  Its a very worthy reasonably light alternative that
comes in a few flavors, has been around for a good while, and has a decent
set of gui tools.  Vector and Zenwalk being Slackware based may sometimes be
less easy to manage software on than Mandriva or other RPM based distros -
dependencies may sometimes become an issue - and this is one of the things
that all apt- based distros do best of all.  But then, there are other
things they do less well.  Slackware based distros like Vector are, as Bob
notes, usually fastest.  You can't win them all.
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/-OT--Ubuntu-8.10%3A-headaches-and-nothing-else.-tp20870256p20916661.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Tue Dec  9 11:17:46 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 08:17:46 -0800
Subject: Menu Key Accelerators
In-Reply-To: <493D6B4F.9080707@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <907A058B.DA30.4754.9A08.C8E15D067EE8@aol.com>
	<493D699A.1060807@hyperactivesw.com>
	<493D6B4F.9080707@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c56448eb1c69@[192.168.1.105]>

By the way, is anyone else STILL experiencing the 'accelerator keys' 
problem in Rev in the IDE? You know, typing command-something and not 
have it happen unless you go to the actual menubar or do it several 
times. This was reported to be fixed but it's still the same for me 
in 3.0, 3.5 -- Mac Leopard 10.5.5,
I don't trust the a-keys in Rev at all.  I always have repeat. and 
always look at the bar to see it flash.


At 12:45 PM -0600 12/8/08, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
>I'm apparently not running on all cylinders today. My copy/paste 
>didn't. Here's a corrected version, after which I think I'll bow out 
>gracefully for today:

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -





From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Tue Dec  9 11:39:59 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 08:39:59 -0800
Subject: Linux Distro choices [was:  Ubuntu...etc]
In-Reply-To: <493E45C0.4030003@armbase.com>
References: <572580.75735.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20879415.post@talk.nabble.com>	<493BB3A7.20608@laposte.net>
	<9b408d8e0812070759j278a7d33ic307a7014b2d6de@mail.gmail.com>
	<20890510.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<9b408d8e0812080708k42b9da3bt1959c6f1457d0117@mail.gmail.com>
	<20910826.post@talk.nabble.com> <493E45C0.4030003@armbase.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c5644f84a80b@[192.168.1.105]>

Well at one point I considered 'fooling around' with Linux. Not 
anymore. I don't have that much time to fiddle. What a tower of Babel.


>Peter Alcibiades wrote:
>>Of course its a thorny issue, and it depends what you want, who you are, and
>>what your machine is.  I don't think you lose anything by moving from
>>Ubuntu.  Like many other long term Linux users, I'm a bit baffled by its
>>popularity.
>>
>
>I totally agree with what Peter has written. However, I have a 
>couple of chip in's.
>
>I too never understood the popularity of Ubuntu.
>>On old machines try Zenwalk (slackware based and uses Xfce).  If this is
>>still too slow, try a minimal Debian with fluxbox as the WM.  If this is too
>>slow, Puppy.
>>
>
>

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -





From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Tue Dec  9 11:44:27 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 17:44:27 +0100
Subject: Menu Key Accelerators
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c56448eb1c69@[192.168.1.105]>
References: <907A058B.DA30.4754.9A08.C8E15D067EE8@aol.com>
	<493D699A.1060807@hyperactivesw.com>
	<493D6B4F.9080707@hyperactivesw.com>
	<p06240800c56448eb1c69@[192.168.1.105]>
Message-ID: <FD7A7827-CE5F-4C82-8042-634AEAD1E046@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi Stephen,

In the script editor's menu bar, none of the accelerator keys work for  
me, except command-dash, to comment out lines (shift-command-dash  
doesn't work either). Even if the menu flashes, nothing else happens.

In the default menu bar, the accelerator keys work most of the time in  
Rev 3.0. (I don't think we're supposed to discuss 3.5 on this list).

AcceleratorKeys for objects, other than menus, don't work in Mac OS X  
and I am not sure that they are supposed to work, even though the docs  
don't mention that they don't.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to  
discuss your custom software project!

On 9 dec 2008, at 17:17, Stephen Barncard wrote:

> By the way, is anyone else STILL experiencing the 'accelerator keys'  
> problem in Rev in the IDE? You know, typing command-something and  
> not have it happen unless you go to the actual menubar or do it  
> several times. This was reported to be fixed but it's still the same  
> for me in 3.0, 3.5 -- Mac Leopard 10.5.5,
> I don't trust the a-keys in Rev at all.  I always have repeat. and  
> always look at the bar to see it flash.



From rev at armbase.com  Tue Dec  9 11:46:39 2008
From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 16:46:39 +0000
Subject: Linux Distro choices [was:  Ubuntu...etc]
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c5644f84a80b@[192.168.1.105]>
References: <572580.75735.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<20879415.post@talk.nabble.com>	<493BB3A7.20608@laposte.net>	<9b408d8e0812070759j278a7d33ic307a7014b2d6de@mail.gmail.com>	<20890510.post@talk.nabble.com>	<9b408d8e0812080708k42b9da3bt1959c6f1457d0117@mail.gmail.com>	<20910826.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<493E45C0.4030003@armbase.com>
	<p06240801c5644f84a80b@[192.168.1.105]>
Message-ID: <493EA0EF.9050902@armbase.com>

Stephen Barncard wrote:
> Well at one point I considered 'fooling around' with Linux. Not 
> anymore. I don't have that much time to fiddle. What a tower of Babel.

Exactly... (I'm about to commit heresy) A computer is a tool.
I used an ARM Rics Machine for my degree work in 1995 it was the best 
tool with a custom bit of SW. A wallstreet with MacOS8.5 for my PhD
Windows for my next job then Windows and Now a 4 core Powermac. All the 
best tools for the job.
I use linux for desktop work because it doesn't crash as much as XP 
(well at all). I use Mandriva for ease of use. Once a month I go back to 
windows for one file for 30 mins work then back to linux for a smooth 
day to day OS most of the time I work away uninterupted. That is why I 
use Mandriva at work. I dont get paid to mess around.

It is all horses for courses. :-)

Cheers
Bob


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  9 12:01:57 2008
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 09:01:57 -0800
Subject: Menu Key Accelerators
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c56448eb1c69@[192.168.1.105]>
Message-ID: <C563E485.53BD4%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

I am using 2.9 and the good old script editor on Leopard 10.5.5

Copy-paste seems to work all the time which was not true of 2.7.2

however, there is consistently a mode that occurs throughout the day where
the cmd-S for Save will not work unless I activate the stack window first.
Also intermittent is the unhilighted 'Apply' button after editing code.
Fix: I simply add a space at the end of a script line and it becomes active
again.

I would expect these would have been fixed in 3.0+ so my post is more of a
curiosity.

My workaround used to be Menu Key where I setup control-C and control-V as
alternatives to using cmd-C and V when using the script editor.

This info might be helpful to someone out there.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 12/9/08 8:17 AM, "Stephen Barncard" <stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com>
wrote:

> By the way, is anyone else STILL experiencing the 'accelerator keys'
> problem in Rev in the IDE? You know, typing command-something and not
> have it happen unless you go to the actual menubar or do it several
> times. This was reported to be fixed but it's still the same for me
> in 3.0, 3.5 -- Mac Leopard 10.5.5,
> I don't trust the a-keys in Rev at all.  I always have repeat. and
> always look at the bar to see it flash.
> 
> 
> At 12:45 PM -0600 12/8/08, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>> 
>> I'm apparently not running on all cylinders today. My copy/paste
>> didn't. Here's a corrected version, after which I think I'll bow out
>> gracefully for today:




From palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Dec  9 12:37:55 2008
From: palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk (Peter Alcibiades)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 09:37:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Linux Distro choices [was:  Ubuntu...etc]
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c5644f84a80b@[192.168.1.105]>
References: <572580.75735.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20879415.post@talk.nabble.com> <493BB3A7.20608@laposte.net>
	<9b408d8e0812070759j278a7d33ic307a7014b2d6de@mail.gmail.com>
	<20890510.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<9b408d8e0812080708k42b9da3bt1959c6f1457d0117@mail.gmail.com>
	<20910826.post@talk.nabble.com> <493E45C0.4030003@armbase.com>
	<p06240801c5644f84a80b@[192.168.1.105]>
Message-ID: <20919603.post@talk.nabble.com>


Stephen, you might as well write, that at one point you considered fooling
around with programming, but there were too many languages to choose from. 
Its pretty simple, just pick any one of Bob's and my mainline choices,
install it, and use it.  You'll have a different experience from Windows or
Mac, with different issues, but it will be no more complicated and no more a
Tower of Babel than with them.  Whichever you pick will work.

Remember, when we are offering advice to Mikey, its to a guy who already is
doing multi boot with various Linux distros, and is interested in the
subject.  We'd take a rather different approach for someone who just wanted
a computer running Linux to work on.  I don't suppose the people I install
it for even know there is such a thing as a distribution, and why should
they?

Peter




Stephen Barncard-4 wrote:
> 
> Well at one point I considered 'fooling around' with Linux. Not 
> anymore. I don't have that much time to fiddle. What a tower of Babel.
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/-OT--Ubuntu-8.10%3A-headaches-and-nothing-else.-tp20870256p20919603.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From mikeythek at gmail.com  Tue Dec  9 12:43:32 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 12:43:32 -0500
Subject: Linux Distro choices [was: Ubuntu...etc]
In-Reply-To: <20919603.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <572580.75735.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20879415.post@talk.nabble.com> <493BB3A7.20608@laposte.net>
	<9b408d8e0812070759j278a7d33ic307a7014b2d6de@mail.gmail.com>
	<20890510.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<9b408d8e0812080708k42b9da3bt1959c6f1457d0117@mail.gmail.com>
	<20910826.post@talk.nabble.com> <493E45C0.4030003@armbase.com>
	<p06240801c5644f84a80b@192.168.1.105> <20919603.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812090943t761f5b44i57a6a388e13af4d7@mail.gmail.com>

One word:  Compiz.

Expose is but a dim shadow in its presence.  I now love virtual desktops.


From r.venzl-schubert at macbay.de  Tue Dec  9 13:26:21 2008
From: r.venzl-schubert at macbay.de (Reinhold Venzl-Schubert)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 19:26:21 +0100
Subject: How to set the cursor at the end of a textfield
In-Reply-To: <20081209180006.1CE6A48A4B7@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20081209180006.1CE6A48A4B7@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <81FA6F56-D48C-48DB-8C10-2C0114F5A8C5@macbay.de>

Merci beaucoup, Eric!

J'ai utilis?
put "" after fld "text"
mais

> Select after text of fld <MyField>

est tres plus ?l?gamment.

:-)
Reinhold

>> How can I set the cursor to the end of the text in a field.
>> with > focus fld "text" > the cursor is placed a the start of the
>> text in the fld.




From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Dec  9 13:49:04 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 19:49:04 +0100
Subject: How to set the cursor at the end of a textfield
In-Reply-To: <81FA6F56-D48C-48DB-8C10-2C0114F5A8C5@macbay.de>
References: <20081209180006.1CE6A48A4B7@mail.runrev.com>
	<81FA6F56-D48C-48DB-8C10-2C0114F5A8C5@macbay.de>
Message-ID: <2B4249D5-8AA3-4A59-82C5-E5FE0AECE301@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonsoir Reinhold,

Your French is as good as my English :-)
The main thing is that we are all able to understand each others and  
to help if we can.

Le 9 d?c. 08 ? 19:26, Reinhold Venzl-Schubert a ?crit :

> Merci beaucoup, Eric!
>
> J'ai utilis?
> put "" after fld "text"
> mais
>
>> Select after text of fld <MyField>
>
> est tres plus ?l?gamment.
>
> :-)
> Reinhold

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From support at ahsomme.com  Tue Dec  9 13:59:36 2008
From: support at ahsomme.com (Paul Looney)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 10:59:36 -0800
Subject: Getting the Serial Number of the User's computer
Message-ID: <C411347E-AA47-443F-B38B-E3691C241B91@ahsomme.com>

How can I retrieve the computer serial number in OS X, Vista and  
Linux from Rev?
Thanks in advance, I appreciate it.
Paul Looney


From palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Dec  9 14:33:35 2008
From: palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk (Peter Alcibiades)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 11:33:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Getting the Serial Number of the User's computer
In-Reply-To: <C411347E-AA47-443F-B38B-E3691C241B91@ahsomme.com>
References: <C411347E-AA47-443F-B38B-E3691C241B91@ahsomme.com>
Message-ID: <20921793.post@talk.nabble.com>


Never personally used it in anger, but in Linux its dmidecode.  

http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2008/11/how-to-get-hardware-information-on-linux-using-dmidecode-command/

Peter


Paul Looney wrote:
> 
> How can I retrieve the computer serial number in OS X, Vista and  
> Linux from Rev?
> Thanks in advance, I appreciate it.
> Paul Looney
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Getting-the-Serial-Number-of-the-User%27s-computer-tp20921219p20921793.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Dec  9 15:02:44 2008
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 12:02:44 -0800
Subject: variable storage
In-Reply-To: <ADE7061A-49B1-4E68-87F7-6014EBC4808E@mines-paristech.fr>
References: <20081207180004.8D85D48A2DE@mail.runrev.com>
	<493C1057.3040209@fourthworld.com>
	<665591460812071131q597e9cc3hbb182738a82a564c@mail.gmail.com>
	<8A6B0639-68A7-4D56-9B42-948EA53FFD24@mac.com>
	<665591460812071510v328776a0pa83029e035296bfb@mail.gmail.com>
	<58500043203.20081208085243@ahsoftware.net>
	<40C19B24-1FFE-4051-9E8D-21BF8D1CE067@mines-paristech.fr>
	<104505608109.20081208102528@ahsoftware.net>
	<ADE7061A-49B1-4E68-87F7-6014EBC4808E@mines-paristech.fr>
Message-ID: <81597844578.20081209120244@ahsoftware.net>

Fran?ois-

Monday, December 8, 2008, 12:07:35 PM, you wrote:

> that's a big "if". I assume that the purpose of an object's ID is to
> be unique. This cannot be verified by a single user, IMHO. The closest

To add to what Bjornke posted, if I delete a button and then want to
recreate it (as in a version control storage and retrieval system),
then there is *no way* to reuse its previous id in that stack. The id
number is lost to history. The only workaround for this is too ugly to
discuss in mixed company.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Dec  9 15:07:05 2008
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 12:07:05 -0800
Subject: Menu Key Accelerators
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c56448eb1c69@[192\.168\.1\.105]>
References: <907A058B.DA30.4754.9A08.C8E15D067EE8@aol.com>
	<493D699A.1060807@hyperactivesw.com>
	<493D6B4F.9080707@hyperactivesw.com>
	<p06240800c56448eb1c69@[192.168.1.105]>
Message-ID: <13598105671.20081209120705@ahsoftware.net>

Stephen-

Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 8:17:46 AM, you wrote:

> By the way, is anyone else STILL experiencing the 'accelerator keys'

You betcha. Copy seems to work as long as I've previously made a
change to a script. Most of the time.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From simplsol at aol.com  Tue Dec  9 16:55:21 2008
From: simplsol at aol.com (Paul Looney)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 13:55:21 -0800
Subject: Getting the Serial Number of the User's computer
In-Reply-To: <20921793.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <C411347E-AA47-443F-B38B-E3691C241B91@ahsomme.com>
	<20921793.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <E9E58A9D-CAC6-4CC7-8757-9B9B56BC5011@aol.com>

Thank you, Peter.
One down, two to go.
Paul Looney

On Dec 9, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Peter Alcibiades wrote:

>
> Never personally used it in anger, but in Linux its dmidecode.
>
> http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2008/11/how-to-get-hardware-information- 
> on-linux-using-dmidecode-command/
>
> Peter
>
>
> Paul Looney wrote:
>>
>> How can I retrieve the computer serial number in OS X, Vista and
>> Linux from Rev?
>> Thanks in advance, I appreciate it.
>> Paul Looney
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Getting-the- 
> Serial-Number-of-the-User%27s-computer-tp20921219p20921793.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From DunbarX at aol.com  Tue Dec  9 17:01:01 2008
From: DunbarX at aol.com (DunbarX at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 17:01:01 EST
Subject: Ugly ID memories
Message-ID: <c62.3c831a78.3670449d@aol.com>


In a message dated 12/9/08 3:08:11 PM, mwieder at ahsoftware.net writes:


> To add to what Bjornke posted, if I delete a button and then want to
> recreate it (as in a version control storage and retrieval system),
> then there is *no way* to reuse its previous id in that stack. The id
> number is lost to history. The only workaround for this is too ugly to
> discuss in mixed company.
> 
There was a corollary debate in HC years back; whether the id should be a 
settable property. It was decided (very) on high that it would not be. The 
reasons are lost in time, but I recall it was felt that id's were not intended to be 
indexed, and that as permanent and unique as they were, id's also needed to 
die off completely if the object was deleted. A tribute, in fact, to their very 
uniqueness. In no way linkable, by design, to any remaining or future 
objects.

And I would love to talk about a workaround. Perhaps remember the old id, 
linking it via a look-up table to some other object? But as before, nobody could 
think of a good reason to do so, that is, there was no value in knowing that a 
deleted id was either linked to or owned by any other object. Numbers were 
cheap back in those days, and the simple fact that every object had a unique one 
was considered more than sufficient.


**************
Make your life easier with 
all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place.  Try it now. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&amp;icid=aolcom40vanity&amp;ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Dec  9 17:05:58 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 16:05:58 -0600
Subject: [ANN} Zygodact - complete serial key registration system
Message-ID: <493EEBC6.9000508@hyperactivesw.com>

Although there was a brief mention of Zygodact here on the list, I've 
been informed that I should make a more formal announcement. They made 
me do it. :) So without further ado, I present Zygodact.

Zygodact provides an easy, automated way to add a complete registration 
serial key system to your Revolution standalone application or stack. 
With only a single line of code, Zygodact will check to see whether your 
application has been registered with a valid serial key. If not, it 
displays a dialog requesting a user ID and registration key. If your 
user cannot provide a valid registration, Zygodact gracefully shuts down 
your software, disallowing access.

Zygodact does all the work for you. It generates any number of customer 
serial keys for your application, and handles every aspect of requesting 
and tracking a valid software registration on your user?s computer.

It does this by creating a matched set of stacks: a registration dialog 
and a serial key generator, and optionally, a CGI stack for use on a 
server. Every set of stacks is unique, and the registration dialog and 
key generator you produce will never match any others. This gives you 
the security of knowing that other developers who use Zygodact can never 
generate the same serial keys and registration data as yours.

Each serial key is based on your user's name, or a user ID, or any other 
data you choose. Once registered, your software is tied to the user's 
computer, which means no one can copy your application to another 
machine without invalidating the registration. For developers who may be 
concerned about users sharing their registration keys, Zygodact also 
returns registration information to your scripts, for use with an online 
validation or tracking database.

With Zygodact you get:

- One-click generation of a unique registration substack and serial key 
generator
- Optional CGI stack and sample Revolution script for server use
- Complete registration management with only a single line of script
- Fully customizable registration dialog, so you can add your own logo 
and look and feel
- The option to use your own software's preferences stack, or just let 
Zygodact create one for you without any scripting
- Complete documentation with sample scripts, conveniently accessible 
from the Help menu
- Serial key generation either individually or in bulk to produce any 
number of keys with one click


A Zygodact installation can be set up in minutes with three simple steps:

1. Generate a unique set of stacks with one click.

2. Make the registration stack a substack of your main stack.

3. Add one line of script to your main stack.

That's it. Everything else is taken care of for you.

The Zygodact application is available for both Mac OS X and Windows. The 
stacks it generates for use in your project can be used with any 
platform Revolution supports, including Linux.

Zygodact can be purchased at the Runtime Revolution store 
<https://secure.runrev.com/products/related-software/zygodact/>, and is 
also featured as part of the Megabundle deal currently available until 
January 16.

Zygodactl: A toe arrangement in perching birds where digits 1 and 4 are 
reversed.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Dec  9 17:06:02 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 16:06:02 -0600
Subject: Getting the Serial Number of the User's computer
In-Reply-To: <C411347E-AA47-443F-B38B-E3691C241B91@ahsomme.com>
Message-ID: <C56447EA.17E7C%kray@sonsothunder.com>


> How can I retrieve the computer serial number in OS X, Vista and
> Linux from Rev?

Here's what I have, Paul... for OS X it can take a while (a few seconds) to
get the number on OS X (since it has to go through a series of different
"system_profiler" data types), but it works (watch for wraps):

function stsGetSerialNumber pWinDriveLetter
   local tID
   switch (the platform)
      case "MacOS"
         put shell("system_profiler SPHardwareDataType") into tData
         put matchText(tData,"(?s)Serial Number:\W*(.*?)\n",tID) into
tIsMatch
      break
      case "Win32"
         if pWinDriveLetter = "" then put "C:" into tDriveLetter
         else put pWinDriveLetter into tDriveLetter
         if length(tDriveLetter) = 1 then put ":" after tDriveLetter
         set the hideConsoleWindows to true
         if the shellCommand <> "command.com" then
            put shell(tDriveLetter && "& dir") into tData
         else
            put "c:\temp.bat" into tBatPath
            put tDriveLetter & cr & "dir" into url ("file:" & tBatPath)
            put shell("start" && tBatPath) into tData
            delete file tBatPath
         end if
         put matchText(tData,"(?s)Serial Number is\W*(.*?)\n",tID) into
tIsMatch
      break
   end switch
   if tIsMatch then
      return tID
   else
      return "STSError: Can't locate serial number."
   end if
end stsGetSerialNumber


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Dec  9 17:07:19 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 16:07:19 -0600
Subject: Getting the Serial Number of the User's computer
In-Reply-To: <E9E58A9D-CAC6-4CC7-8757-9B9B56BC5011@aol.com>
References: <C411347E-AA47-443F-B38B-E3691C241B91@ahsomme.com>	<20921793.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<E9E58A9D-CAC6-4CC7-8757-9B9B56BC5011@aol.com>
Message-ID: <493EEC17.1080102@hyperactivesw.com>

Paul Looney wrote:
> Thank you, Peter.
> One down, two to go.

This may be of use: 
<http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/env001.htm>

Ken knows everything.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From support at ahsomme.com  Tue Dec  9 17:17:49 2008
From: support at ahsomme.com (Paul Looney)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 14:17:49 -0800
Subject: Getting the Serial Number of the User's computer
In-Reply-To: <C56447EA.17E7C%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <C56447EA.17E7C%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <0487A1AE-FE4C-4046-A3B2-C840F7892BD8@ahsomme.com>

Ken,
It worked perfectly, of course.
Thank you.
Paul Looney

On Dec 9, 2008, at 2:06 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

>
>> How can I retrieve the computer serial number in OS X, Vista and
>> Linux from Rev?
>
> Here's what I have, Paul... for OS X it can take a while (a few  
> seconds) to
> get the number on OS X (since it has to go through a series of  
> different
> "system_profiler" data types), but it works (watch for wraps):
>
> function stsGetSerialNumber pWinDriveLetter
>    local tID
>    switch (the platform)
>       case "MacOS"
>          put shell("system_profiler SPHardwareDataType") into tData
>          put matchText(tData,"(?s)Serial Number:\W*(.*?)\n",tID) into
> tIsMatch
>       break
>       case "Win32"
>          if pWinDriveLetter = "" then put "C:" into tDriveLetter
>          else put pWinDriveLetter into tDriveLetter
>          if length(tDriveLetter) = 1 then put ":" after tDriveLetter
>          set the hideConsoleWindows to true
>          if the shellCommand <> "command.com" then
>             put shell(tDriveLetter && "& dir") into tData
>          else
>             put "c:\temp.bat" into tBatPath
>             put tDriveLetter & cr & "dir" into url ("file:" &  
> tBatPath)
>             put shell("start" && tBatPath) into tData
>             delete file tBatPath
>          end if
>          put matchText(tData,"(?s)Serial Number is\W*(.*?)\n",tID)  
> into
> tIsMatch
>       break
>    end switch
>    if tIsMatch then
>       return tID
>    else
>       return "STSError: Can't locate serial number."
>    end if
> end stsGetSerialNumber
>
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From support at ahsomme.com  Tue Dec  9 17:23:19 2008
From: support at ahsomme.com (Paul Looney)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 14:23:19 -0800
Subject: Getting the Serial Number of the User's computer
In-Reply-To: <493EEC17.1080102@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <C411347E-AA47-443F-B38B-E3691C241B91@ahsomme.com>	<20921793.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<E9E58A9D-CAC6-4CC7-8757-9B9B56BC5011@aol.com>
	<493EEC17.1080102@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <FB9A5CCA-1FCF-4B60-AC58-D6927F43FB4E@ahsomme.com>

Jacque,
Ken really does know everything! He had actually replied before you  
suggest his site.
Of course, YOU know everything, too. Those of us "second tier  
programmers" on this list are very fortunate to have both of you  
helping us.
Paul Looney

On Dec 9, 2008, at 2:07 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Paul Looney wrote:
>> Thank you, Peter.
>> One down, two to go.
>
> This may be of use: <http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/ 
> tips/env001.htm>
>
> Ken knows everything.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Dec  9 17:41:11 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 23:41:11 +0100
Subject: [ANN} Zygodact - complete serial key registration system
In-Reply-To: <493EEBC6.9000508@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <493EEBC6.9000508@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <DC8B741D-3085-4FFD-9F71-E3D6C4F39969@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonsoir Jacqueline,

Sounds great but I miss something:
How and why are you tied with Zygodact?

Le 9 d?c. 08 ? 23:05, J. Landman Gay a ?crit :

> Although there was a brief mention of Zygodact here on the list,  
> I've been informed that I should make a more formal announcement.  
> They made me do it. :) So without further ado, I present Zygodact.
>
> Zygodact provides an easy, automated way to add a complete  
> registration serial key system to your Revolution standalone  
> application or stack. With only a single line of code, Zygodact  
> will check to see whether your application has been registered with  
> a valid serial key. If not, it displays a dialog requesting a user  
> ID and registration key. If your user cannot provide a valid  
> registration, Zygodact gracefully shuts down your software,  
> disallowing access.
>
> Zygodact does all the work for you. It generates any number of  
> customer serial keys for your application, and handles every aspect  
> of requesting and tracking a valid software registration on your  
> user?s computer.
>
> It does this by creating a matched set of stacks: a registration  
> dialog and a serial key generator, and optionally, a CGI stack for  
> use on a server. Every set of stacks is unique, and the  
> registration dialog and key generator you produce will never match  
> any others. This gives you the security of knowing that other  
> developers who use Zygodact can never generate the same serial keys  
> and registration data as yours.
>
> Each serial key is based on your user's name, or a user ID, or any  
> other data you choose. Once registered, your software is tied to  
> the user's computer, which means no one can copy your application  
> to another machine without invalidating the registration. For  
> developers who may be concerned about users sharing their  
> registration keys, Zygodact also returns registration information  
> to your scripts, for use with an online validation or tracking  
> database.
>
> With Zygodact you get:
>
> - One-click generation of a unique registration substack and serial  
> key generator
> - Optional CGI stack and sample Revolution script for server use
> - Complete registration management with only a single line of script
> - Fully customizable registration dialog, so you can add your own  
> logo and look and feel
> - The option to use your own software's preferences stack, or just  
> let Zygodact create one for you without any scripting
> - Complete documentation with sample scripts, conveniently  
> accessible from the Help menu
> - Serial key generation either individually or in bulk to produce  
> any number of keys with one click
>
>
> A Zygodact installation can be set up in minutes with three simple  
> steps:
>
> 1. Generate a unique set of stacks with one click.
>
> 2. Make the registration stack a substack of your main stack.
>
> 3. Add one line of script to your main stack.
>
> That's it. Everything else is taken care of for you.
>
> The Zygodact application is available for both Mac OS X and  
> Windows. The stacks it generates for use in your project can be  
> used with any platform Revolution supports, including Linux.
>
> Zygodact can be purchased at the Runtime Revolution store <https:// 
> secure.runrev.com/products/related-software/zygodact/>, and is also  
> featured as part of the Megabundle deal currently available until  
> January 16.
>
> Zygodactl: A toe arrangement in perching birds where digits 1 and 4  
> are reversed.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From kkaufman at snet.net  Tue Dec  9 17:45:17 2008
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 17:45:17 -0500
Subject: Announcing Revolution - The Canine Edition
Message-ID: <970E28E5-0EEB-4226-AC13-C90A52D42626@snet.net>

www.shopperturnpike.com/usefulsoftware/birds/revolution.jpg


From bobs at twft.com  Tue Dec  9 18:05:58 2008
From: bobs at twft.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 15:05:58 -0800
Subject: Ugly ID memories
In-Reply-To: <c62.3c831a78.3670449d@aol.com>
References: <c62.3c831a78.3670449d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <886B654C-B7FA-4AC0-8506-93909A51E594@twft.com>

Object ID's are simply a way for the software to uniquely identify an  
object. That the ID is made visible to the programmer seems to me to  
be a convenience. Since you can refer to an object by name anyway,  
there really is no hard fast reason to refer to it by it's ID. It  
would be like deleting a user profile in Windows, then creating  
another and giving it the same ID. Hey, actually that would be cool!  
But I digress.

Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM

On Dec 9, 2008, at 2:01 PM, DunbarX at aol.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 12/9/08 3:08:11 PM, mwieder at ahsoftware.net writes:
>
>
>> To add to what Bjornke posted, if I delete a button and then want to
>> recreate it (as in a version control storage and retrieval system),
>> then there is *no way* to reuse its previous id in that stack. The id
>> number is lost to history. The only workaround for this is too ugly  
>> to
>> discuss in mixed company.
>>
> There was a corollary debate in HC years back; whether the id should  
> be a
> settable property. It was decided (very) on high that it would not  
> be. The
> reasons are lost in time, but I recall it was felt that id's were  
> not intended to be
> indexed, and that as permanent and unique as they were, id's also  
> needed to
> die off completely if the object was deleted. A tribute, in fact, to  
> their very
> uniqueness. In no way linkable, by design, to any remaining or future
> objects.
>
> And I would love to talk about a workaround. Perhaps remember the  
> old id,
> linking it via a look-up table to some other object? But as before,  
> nobody could
> think of a good reason to do so, that is, there was no value in  
> knowing that a
> deleted id was either linked to or owned by any other object.  
> Numbers were
> cheap back in those days, and the simple fact that every object had  
> a unique one
> was considered more than sufficient.
>
>
> **************
> Make your life easier with
> all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place.  Try it now.
> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&amp;icid=aolcom40vanity&amp;ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010 
> )
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Dec  9 18:11:40 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:11:40 -0600
Subject: [ANN} Zygodact - complete serial key registration system
In-Reply-To: <DC8B741D-3085-4FFD-9F71-E3D6C4F39969@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <493EEBC6.9000508@hyperactivesw.com>
	<DC8B741D-3085-4FFD-9F71-E3D6C4F39969@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <493EFB2C.8040502@hyperactivesw.com>

Eric Chatonet wrote:
> Bonsoir Jacqueline,
> 
> Sounds great but I miss something:
> How and why are you tied with Zygodact?

I wrote it. :) HyperActive Software has joined the RevSelect program and 
sells Zygodact via the RR online store. I guess I forgot to mention that 
part. I should have put my URL in there too: 
<http://www.hyperactivesw.com/Products/zygodact.html>

I'm really no good with this marketing business. But the software works.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Dec  9 18:30:23 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:30:23 -0600
Subject: Getting the Serial Number of the User's computer
In-Reply-To: <20921793.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <C5645BAF.17E8D%kray@sonsothunder.com>



> Never personally used it in anger, but in Linux its dmidecode.
> 
> http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2008/11/how-to-get-hardware-information-on-linux-u
> sing-dmidecode-command/

It seems you can get it by doing "dmidecode -t 1", but it requires
permission, so you would need to "sudo" and provide a password to get it.
The way you do *that*, is (assumes the password is in the variable "tPwd"):

    put "#!/bin/sh" & cr into tScript
    put "pw=" & quote & tPwd & quote & cr after tScript
    put "echo $pw | sudo -S dmidecode -t 1" && tPID & cr after tScript
    put shell(tScript) into tResult
     -- Then parse tResult looking for "Serial Number:"

But given the many Linux distros, would it be safe to say that this may not
work on all distros? I know it doesn't work in a virtual device (when I do
this under VMWare, I don't get any System Information - I get
"HDIO_GET_IDENTITY failed"), but would it work for the most common distros?

Just curious...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From DunbarX at aol.com  Tue Dec  9 19:01:11 2008
From: DunbarX at aol.com (DunbarX at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 19:01:11 EST
Subject: Ugly ID memories
Message-ID: <c17.4f62ea9f.367060c7@aol.com>


In a message dated 12/9/08 6:06:08 PM, bobs at twft.com writes:


> Object ID's are simply a way for the software to uniquely identify an?
> object. That the ID is made visible to the programmer seems to me to?
> be a convenience. Since you can refer to an object by name anyway,?
> there really is no hard fast reason to refer to it by it's ID. It?
> would be like deleting a user profile in Windows, then creating?
> another and giving it the same ID. Hey, actually that would be cool!?
> But I digress.
> 
> 

I have used that feature here and there; it is useful to have an object 
property that never changes regardless of name or number or whatever else that can. 
And do. It is a good thing, and I agreed, way back when, it should not be 
settable. It would have been just another number, then.


**************
Make your 
life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place.  Try 
it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&amp;icid=aolcom40vanity&amp;
ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)


From fmoyer at aol.com  Tue Dec  9 19:07:08 2008
From: fmoyer at aol.com (Fred moyer)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 19:07:08 -0500
Subject: Show Globals
Message-ID: <EC8B084E-CA46-47AB-8EC1-E5B092376E77@aol.com>

Hi everyone. Am I the only one for whom the script editor on 3.0 is  
glacially slow? It is almost impossible at times to code, especially  
when I have lots of huge globals loaded.

For that matter, in Preferences, it seems that checking or unchecking  
"Show Globals" in the Script Editor area makes no difference. I still  
see all of my globals (as well as $User and other $ variables)  
listed. Simply comparing 2 variables if they start with say A and Z  
can take 20 seconds or more.

Stepping through scripts is also unbelievably slow.

All of this wouldn't be so bad if the variables were not locked  
underneath the script so that the variable list by definition must be  
short requiring lots of scrolling up and down.

Are there any workarounds? For example:

- Is it possible for example to truly not see globals that are not  
referred to in a particular script?
- Is it possible to have Revolution use the old style script editor?  
(I notice that the present script editor is called  
"revNewScriptEditor" which implies an element of experimentation.)
- Is it possible to drag the Variable list away from the window?

Incidentally, I noticed when starting to report a bug today, I saw  
that one of the choices was Revolution 3.5.0 Is there a new version  
available??

Thanks
Fred Moyer


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  9 19:38:04 2008
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 16:38:04 -0800
Subject: Show Globals
In-Reply-To: <EC8B084E-CA46-47AB-8EC1-E5B092376E77@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C5644F6C.53C0D%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

A couple comments about global variables and variable watcher.

1) I am using 2.9 so I don't see the 'slow' behavior

2) I prefix all my globals with 'z' and my script locals with 'x' so that
they sort to the bottom of the watcher window.

3) you can use the 'page up' ' page down' keys to jump after you have
clicked somewhere on the variable watcher window, although slow scrolling
may still occur.

4)  if you don't need to see the contents of the globals during debugging,
why not try using custom properties?  This works more easily if you are
always using one main stack and one property set but may not change the slow
performance.

Hope this gives you and idea or two.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 12/9/08 4:07 PM, "Fred moyer" <fmoyer at aol.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone. Am I the only one for whom the script editor on 3.0 is
> glacially slow? It is almost impossible at times to code, especially
> when I have lots of huge globals loaded.
> 
> For that matter, in Preferences, it seems that checking or unchecking
> "Show Globals" in the Script Editor area makes no difference. I still
> see all of my globals (as well as $User and other $ variables)
> listed. Simply comparing 2 variables if they start with say A and Z
> can take 20 seconds or more.
> 
> Stepping through scripts is also unbelievably slow.
> 
> All of this wouldn't be so bad if the variables were not locked
> underneath the script so that the variable list by definition must be
> short requiring lots of scrolling up and down.
> 
> Are there any workarounds? For example:
> 
> - Is it possible for example to truly not see globals that are not
> referred to in a particular script?
> - Is it possible to have Revolution use the old style script editor?
> (I notice that the present script editor is called
> "revNewScriptEditor" which implies an element of experimentation.)
> - Is it possible to drag the Variable list away from the window?
> 
> Incidentally, I noticed when starting to report a bug today, I saw
> that one of the choices was Revolution 3.5.0 Is there a new version
> available??
> 
> Thanks
> Fred Moyer
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Dec  9 19:54:30 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 16:54:30 -0800
Subject: Ugly ID memories
Message-ID: <493F1346.4030406@fourthworld.com>

Any problems using the altID property?

Since IDs increment for each object created, if restoring an object 
setting the altID should avoid any conflict with existing or new objects.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Dec 10 00:03:38 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 23:03:38 -0600
Subject: Show Globals
In-Reply-To: <EC8B084E-CA46-47AB-8EC1-E5B092376E77@aol.com>
References: <EC8B084E-CA46-47AB-8EC1-E5B092376E77@aol.com>
Message-ID: <493F4DAA.6010900@hyperactivesw.com>

Fred moyer wrote:
> Hi everyone. Am I the only one for whom the script editor on 3.0 is 
> glacially slow? It is almost impossible at times to code, especially 
> when I have lots of huge globals loaded.

I don't see any slowdown particularly. Do you have enough RAM? I'm just 
guessing, but maybe Rev is having to swap memory out to disk a lot if 
there are a lot of big globals. You could test this by opening a stack 
that uses no globals and try debugging it. If it's snappy, then there 
may be a memory issue with the other stacks.

Huge globals will deplete available RAM pretty quickly. If there is any 
other way to store those values, do it. It is easy to use up nearly all 
available memory if you open a few stacks and each one loads a big 
global variable and never removes it. If there is no other way to store 
these values, then put empty into the globals when they aren't needed 
any more, or delete them entirely.

> 
> For that matter, in Preferences, it seems that checking or unchecking 
> "Show Globals" in the Script Editor area makes no difference. I still 
> see all of my globals (as well as $User and other $ variables) listed. 
> Simply comparing 2 variables if they start with say A and Z can take 20 
> seconds or more.

Unchecking "show globals" works okay here. You could also try unchecking 
"Revolution UI elements appear in lists". That should remove the 
gRev-whatevers at least.

> 
> Stepping through scripts is also unbelievably slow.

I see a very brief pause, but that's built into the debugger on purpose 
so you can see what's happening. It feels fine to me. A major slowdown 
might be related to the same RAM issue though, I'd try testing with a 
simple, no-globals stack and see if the speed picks up.

> 
> All of this wouldn't be so bad if the variables were not locked 
> underneath the script so that the variable list by definition must be 
> short requiring lots of scrolling up and down.
> 
> Are there any workarounds? For example:
> 
> - Is it possible for example to truly not see globals that are not 
> referred to in a particular script?
> - Is it possible to have Revolution use the old style script editor? (I 
> notice that the present script editor is called "revNewScriptEditor" 
> which implies an element of experimentation.)
> - Is it possible to drag the Variable list away from the window?

None of this is possible yet. I want the same things. The variable 
watcher is too small for me to see comfortably. There is a request in 
the QCC with all these suggestions and more.

> 
> Incidentally, I noticed when starting to report a bug today, I saw that 
> one of the choices was Revolution 3.5.0 Is there a new version available??

Not yet. I think they're probably just numbering ahead.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From tsj at unimelb.edu.au  Wed Dec 10 00:53:03 2008
From: tsj at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:53:03 +1100
Subject: Show Globals
In-Reply-To: <493F4DAA.6010900@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <C565A46F.8E8E%tsj@unimelb.edu.au>

The script editor is just fine as long as you don't need to debug anything
complex. Once you've got more than a few variables, and particularly if
these include multidimensional arrays it bogs down horribly. It needs some
attention I reckon!

Terry...


On 10/12/08 4:03 PM, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:

> Fred moyer wrote:
>> Hi everyone. Am I the only one for whom the script editor on 3.0 is
>> glacially slow? It is almost impossible at times to code, especially
>> when I have lots of huge globals loaded.
> 
> I don't see any slowdown particularly. Do you have enough RAM? I'm just
> guessing, but maybe Rev is having to swap memory out to disk a lot if
> there are a lot of big globals. You could test this by opening a stack
> that uses no globals and try debugging it. If it's snappy, then there
> may be a memory issue with the other stacks.

-- 
Dr Terry Judd
Lecturer in Educational Technology (Design)
Biomedical Multimedia Unit
Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences
The University of Melbourne
Parkville VIC 3052
AUSTRALIA

61-3 8344 0187



From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Wed Dec 10 01:12:22 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 22:12:22 -0800
Subject: Meaning of error codes
In-Reply-To: <493F4DAA.6010900@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <EC8B084E-CA46-47AB-8EC1-E5B092376E77@aol.com>
	<493F4DAA.6010900@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <p06240807c5650cb90116@[192.168.1.105]>

I want to deal with my own error messages. Does anyone have a list of 
the 'official' error codes in rev 3.0?   Also I remember that at one 
time someone on this list was offering a library for this purpose..

thanks

sqb
-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -





From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Wed Dec 10 03:53:34 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:53:34 +0100
Subject: Meaning of error codes
In-Reply-To: <p06240807c5650cb90116@[192.168.1.105]>
References: <EC8B084E-CA46-47AB-8EC1-E5B092376E77@aol.com>
	<493F4DAA.6010900@hyperactivesw.com>
	<p06240807c5650cb90116@[192.168.1.105]>
Message-ID: <F90A6C58-28F7-427E-A3EA-2E180E1F0A55@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi Stephen,

The list of error codes is somewhere in the stack revErrorDisplay. My  
shareware library to convert error codes into something meaningful is  
called errorLib and can be found at <http://economy-x-talk.com/developers.html 
 >. There is also an on-line converter, at <http://www.runrev.info>,  
but due to some hardware problems it doesn't work always.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to  
discuss your custom software project!

On 10 dec 2008, at 07:12, Stephen Barncard wrote:

> I want to deal with my own error messages. Does anyone have a list  
> of the 'official' error codes in rev 3.0?   Also I remember that at  
> one time someone on this list was offering a library for this  
> purpose..
>
> thanks
>
> sqb




From viktoras at ekoinf.net  Wed Dec 10 05:15:10 2008
From: viktoras at ekoinf.net (viktoras didziulis)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:15:10 +0200
Subject: Ugly ID memories
In-Reply-To: <493F1346.4030406@fourthworld.com>
References: <493F1346.4030406@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <493F96AE.9020203@ekoinf.net>

Is there anything what can be done with ID that can't be done with altID 
? If not, then simply forgetting about existence of ID and using altID 
in all cases where we are used to refer to ID should solve the ID 
problem completely...

Viktoras

Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Any problems using the altID property?
>
> Since IDs increment for each object created, if restoring an object 
> setting the altID should avoid any conflict with existing or new objects.
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World
>  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From dave at looktowindward.com  Wed Dec 10 06:00:06 2008
From: dave at looktowindward.com (Dave)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:00:06 +0000
Subject: Celestia Scripting - Xmas Project?
In-Reply-To: <F90A6C58-28F7-427E-A3EA-2E180E1F0A55@economy-x-talk.com>
References: <EC8B084E-CA46-47AB-8EC1-E5B092376E77@aol.com>
	<493F4DAA.6010900@hyperactivesw.com>
	<p06240807c5650cb90116@[192.168.1.105]>
	<F90A6C58-28F7-427E-A3EA-2E180E1F0A55@economy-x-talk.com>
Message-ID: <485B5F25-D926-4729-B236-B0179603ADB6@looktowindward.com>

Hi,

Has anyone on the list played with Celestia? (If you don't know what  
it is, you should! Do a google for "Celestia Download".

I've been playing about with the "cel" Scripting Language and I  
started thinking - Wouldn't it be cool if you could have an App to  
build the Scipts? Anyone get my drift here?

Any Ideas and Suggestion Greatly Appreciated,  I may do this as an  
Xmas Project!

All the Best
Dave




From dave at looktowindward.com  Wed Dec 10 06:23:11 2008
From: dave at looktowindward.com (Dave)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:23:11 +0000
Subject: [ANN} Zygodact - complete serial key registration system
In-Reply-To: <493EEBC6.9000508@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <493EEBC6.9000508@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <94B70AC3-D99F-41BE-9F4A-9382D7794AA4@looktowindward.com>

Hi,

In every RR based application I've shipped as a Standalone, the  
Structure I've used is to have one "Main" Stack that holds the  
standalone settings (basically just a dummy "Splash" Screen Window)  
and a number of "Stacks" (that are also main stacks as far as RunRev  
is concerned) that are held inside a subfolder. The Splash Window the  
does a "go" to one of the stacks in the subfolder, e.g.

AppFolder:
Spash.app
           SubFolder:
           Stack1.rev
           Stack2.rev
           Stack3.rev

Can Zygodact handle this situation? Also, does it password protect  
the stacks too? Or just prevent the standalone from running?

All the Best
Dave

On 9 Dec 2008, at 22:05, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Although there was a brief mention of Zygodact here on the list,  
> I've been informed that I should make a more formal announcement.  
> They made me do it. :) So without further ado, I present Zygodact.
>
> Zygodact provides an easy, automated way to add a complete  
> registration serial key system to your Revolution standalone  
> application or stack. With only a single line of code, Zygodact  
> will check to see whether your application has been registered with  
> a valid serial key. If not, it displays a dialog requesting a user  
> ID and registration key. If your user cannot provide a valid  
> registration, Zygodact gracefully shuts down your software,  
> disallowing access.
>
> Zygodact does all the work for you. It generates any number of  
> customer serial keys for your application, and handles every aspect  
> of requesting and tracking a valid software registration on your  
> user?s computer.
>
> It does this by creating a matched set of stacks: a registration  
> dialog and a serial key generator, and optionally, a CGI stack for  
> use on a server. Every set of stacks is unique, and the  
> registration dialog and key generator you produce will never match  
> any others. This gives you the security of knowing that other  
> developers who use Zygodact can never generate the same serial keys  
> and registration data as yours.
>
> Each serial key is based on your user's name, or a user ID, or any  
> other data you choose. Once registered, your software is tied to  
> the user's computer, which means no one can copy your application  
> to another machine without invalidating the registration. For  
> developers who may be concerned about users sharing their  
> registration keys, Zygodact also returns registration information  
> to your scripts, for use with an online validation or tracking  
> database.
>
> With Zygodact you get:
>
> - One-click generation of a unique registration substack and serial  
> key generator
> - Optional CGI stack and sample Revolution script for server use
> - Complete registration management with only a single line of script
> - Fully customizable registration dialog, so you can add your own  
> logo and look and feel
> - The option to use your own software's preferences stack, or just  
> let Zygodact create one for you without any scripting
> - Complete documentation with sample scripts, conveniently  
> accessible from the Help menu
> - Serial key generation either individually or in bulk to produce  
> any number of keys with one click
>
>
> A Zygodact installation can be set up in minutes with three simple  
> steps:
>
> 1. Generate a unique set of stacks with one click.
>
> 2. Make the registration stack a substack of your main stack.
>
> 3. Add one line of script to your main stack.
>
> That's it. Everything else is taken care of for you.
>
> The Zygodact application is available for both Mac OS X and  
> Windows. The stacks it generates for use in your project can be  
> used with any platform Revolution supports, including Linux.
>
> Zygodact can be purchased at the Runtime Revolution store <https:// 
> secure.runrev.com/products/related-software/zygodact/>, and is also  
> featured as part of the Megabundle deal currently available until  
> January 16.
>
> Zygodactl: A toe arrangement in perching birds where digits 1 and 4  
> are reversed.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Dec 10 06:32:56 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:32:56 +0100
Subject: [ANN} Zygodact - complete serial key registration system
In-Reply-To: <94B70AC3-D99F-41BE-9F4A-9382D7794AA4@looktowindward.com>
References: <493EEBC6.9000508@hyperactivesw.com>
	<94B70AC3-D99F-41BE-9F4A-9382D7794AA4@looktowindward.com>
Message-ID: <95F6A703-AAB7-434D-9A09-482A9A8F052E@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonjour Dave,

I can't answer about Zygodact: Jacque will do.
But some additional thoughts:
You might avoid to have a too obvious rev suffix and run your own  
(there are repositories about this for Mac or Windows on the web) and  
set the filetype accordingly on Mac versions.
In all cases you can protect your stacks with a PW by yourself or  
when building the standalone.
I think it is not the purpose of Zygodact.

Le 10 d?c. 08 ? 12:23, Dave a ?crit :

> In every RR based application I've shipped as a Standalone, the  
> Structure I've used is to have one "Main" Stack that holds the  
> standalone settings (basically just a dummy "Splash" Screen Window)  
> and a number of "Stacks" (that are also main stacks as far as  
> RunRev is concerned) that are held inside a subfolder. The Splash  
> Window the does a "go" to one of the stacks in the subfolder, e.g.
>
> AppFolder:
> Spash.app
>           SubFolder:
>           Stack1.rev
>           Stack2.rev
>           Stack3.rev
>
> Can Zygodact handle this situation? Also, does it password protect  
> the stacks too? Or just prevent the standalone from running?

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Wed Dec 10 08:30:54 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:30:54 -0500
Subject: [ANN} Zygodact - complete serial key registration system
In-Reply-To: <493EEBC6.9000508@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <493EEBC6.9000508@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <5D98BEF7-8BDF-463A-8BC5-30CF5CA9AA2A@mac.com>

Congratulations Jacqueline,

This is great!


Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html


On Dec 9, 2008, at 5:05 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Although there was a brief mention of Zygodact here on the list,  
> I've been informed that I should make a more formal announcement.  
> They made me do it. :) So without further ado, I present Zygodact.
>
> Zy
> Zygodactl: A toe arrangement in perching birds where digits 1 and 4  
> are reversed.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From larsbrehmer at mac.com  Wed Dec 10 09:33:24 2008
From: larsbrehmer at mac.com (Lars Brehmer)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:33:24 +0200
Subject: Will pay for help
Message-ID: <963E4623-B6EE-498A-A98F-1DF9A30BEB7B@mac.com>

In the next 10 weeks I will need a lot of help, which I will of course  
pay for, in order to build the Kagi KRM into a standalone. I have been  
asking the Kagi support staff about this, and apparently their support  
staff does not actually build the KRM into your program, not even for  
pay. You must do it yourself using their APIs (I need OSX and Windows)  
and theirin lies the rub. I am not capable of any programming  
whatsoever but Rev Transcript, so I cannot work with their APIs. They  
did send me a stack a Rev developer once made called Kagi External for  
Revolution v1.0 that apparently makes it all possible to use theeKRM,  
but I am not capable of implementing it myself.

I think the KRM process of buying and unlocking with a click without  
navigating a store, shopping carts, checkouts etc. would be the  
perfect way to go, at least for me with this particular project, and  
worth every penny of the fees thay charge for using this service.

If you are interested, please contact me off list with an estimate of  
your fee, when you could fit this into your schedule  and roughly how  
long it would take, including getting the final product set up with  
Kagi's support staff. Or does anyone recommend another solution to  
accomplishing the same thing the KRM does? I really like their model.

Cheers,

Lars




From effendi at wanadoo.fr  Wed Dec 10 09:34:46 2008
From: effendi at wanadoo.fr (Francis Nugent Dixon)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:34:46 +0100
Subject: Show Globals
Message-ID: <17CA10C3-59D6-4B30-BE67-F04A04F8E892@wanadoo.fr>

Hi from Paris,

Fred,

Even before Rev 3.0 came out to efficiently hide
the global variables, I had wanted to see such
information easily. Now that Rev 3.0 is here,
I'm glad I did it. I use the following subterfuge :

I build my stacks using one of many existing models.
All of my models contain a hidden button.
This button shows and hides the following buttons :
SHOWVAR, SHOWFIELD, SHOWBUTTON, SHOWGROUP, SHOWGRAPH

With these buttons, and using a (hidden) scroll field,
I can display or hide the names of all declared globals,
fields, buttons, etc.

When building these lists, I strip out $variables, and
any other names I wish, check field and button names,
ensure no duplicate names (I can be a little forgetful).

Like Jim, I use a strict naming system, at a glance,
you can see what you want.

Very useful information when you are building and
testing your stacks. When the stack goes live, hide
everthing you don't want to see. It will be available
in the future if you update the stack.

However, I don't know how to show globals assigned
ONLY to the current stack. Does anybody know ?

If you want the scripts, catch me off-list ......

-Francis

"Nothing should ever be done for the first time !"





From wjm at wjm.org  Wed Dec 10 10:38:14 2008
From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:38:14 -0500
Subject: Will pay for help (Kagi KRM)
References: <963E4623-B6EE-498A-A98F-1DF9A30BEB7B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <ghonp7$ls9$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hi Lars,

This sounds like something that might be an excellent addition to a future 
version of the Zygodact product!

You might also want to see if there's any hint of who wrote the initial 
stack they sent you. I'm sure others might like to see that stack as well, 
before volunteering to help. Perhaps you could post a link to it?

- Bill

> [...] You must do it yourself using their APIs (I need OSX and Windows) 
> and theirin lies the rub. I am not capable of any programming  whatsoever 
> but Rev Transcript, so I cannot work with their APIs. They  did send me a 
> stack a Rev developer once made called Kagi External for  Revolution v1.0 
> that apparently makes it all possible to use theeKRM,  but I am not 
> capable of implementing it myself.
>
> I think the KRM process of buying and unlocking with a click without 
> navigating a store, shopping carts, checkouts etc. would be the  perfect 
> way to go, at least for me with this particular project, and  worth every 
> penny of the fees thay charge for using this service. 





From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Dec 10 10:42:25 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 07:42:25 -0800
Subject: Ugly ID memories
Message-ID: <493FE361.1070908@fourthworld.com>

viktoras didziulis wrote:

> Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> Any problems using the altID property?
>>
>> Since IDs increment for each object created, if restoring an
>> object setting the altID should avoid any conflict with
>> existing or new objects.
>
> Is there anything what can be done with ID that can't be done with
> altID? If not, then simply forgetting about existence of ID and
> using altID in all cases where we are used to refer to ID should
> solve the ID problem completely...

For those who simply want an arbitrary integer they can control that
would certainly do it.

But what differentiates the altID from just using a custom property is
that the altID is checked when addressing objects by ID.  Strange but
true, and very powerful, created to facilitate porting projects from
other xTalks.

When referrring to an object by ID, the built-in IDs are checked first,
and if no match is found then the altIDs are checked. Objects are
checked in layer order.

So if you have a button whose ID is 1003, and an altID of 4444, asking
for either:

   btn id 1003

...or:

   btn id 4444

...will return the same control.

As you can guess, this isn't entirely foolproof, because if you have a
button with an actual ID of 4444 that one will be returned instead.

But IDs for all objects use a single incrementer within a given stack,
and the last ID used is stored in the stack's ID property (which
otherwise has no useful purpose, since it changes whenever a new control
is added, and stacks are required to have unique names anyway).

This is why the altID can be useful for restoring objects:  the
incrementer never works backward, so if you set the altID of a control
to its actual ID prior to turning it into XML or some other
representation, when you recreate it in the same stack you can be
assured no other control is using that ID.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com



From palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Dec 10 11:12:23 2008
From: palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk (Peter Alcibiades)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:12:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Getting the Serial Number of the User's computer
In-Reply-To: <C5645BAF.17E8D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <C411347E-AA47-443F-B38B-E3691C241B91@ahsomme.com>
	<20921793.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<C5645BAF.17E8D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <20937840.post@talk.nabble.com>


Yes indeed.  It comes as standard in Debian, and I think Ubuntu also, but I
don't know about the rest.  Its in /usr/sbin and requires root privileges,
implying sudo, which also may well not be available in all distros, and not
to the particular user in any case.  It isn't very neat. Maybe run the app
install as root and change the permissions and put a link in /usr/bin?  Not
an expert on this stuff.

Peter



Ken Ray wrote:
> 
> 
> But given the many Linux distros, would it be safe to say that this may
> not
> work on all distros? 
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Getting-the-Serial-Number-of-the-User%27s-computer-tp20921219p20937840.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Dec 10 11:15:44 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:15:44 -0800
Subject: Will pay for help
Message-ID: <493FEB30.7060900@fourthworld.com>

Lars Brehmer wrote:
> I think the KRM process of buying and unlocking with a click without  
> navigating a store, shopping carts, checkouts etc. would be the  
> perfect way to go, at least for me with this particular project, and  
> worth every penny of the fees thay charge for using this service.

It certainly seems convenient, but unless you have an uncommonly strong 
brand association and trust level with your audience you may want to 
also maintain a shopping cart on the web.

While no financial transaction is entirely hack-proof, customers are 
used to buying on the web, and as long as they see the "locked" icon in 
their browser they feel reasonably assured that their sensitive credit 
card data is secure.

When building a custom purchasing solution into your software, you not 
only have the technical challenge of implementing it but also take on 
the risk that your conversion rate may be lower because customers have 
no idea what your software is doing under the hood.

This perceived risk issue is exacerbated by an ever-growing number of 
malware programs floating around, contributing to an erosion of trust 
throughout the environment.

The degree to which this trust factor will affect conversion will of 
course depend on a great many factors, and for some audiences the 
convenience might just outweigh the perceived risk.

Just the same, you may want to play it safe and offer an option to buy 
on the web.


I haven't seen specific studies of conversion rates for software sold on 
the web vs. with a built-in shopping system, and if anyone has one I'd 
be very interested in reading it.

But as a general rule, when it comes to generic business questions 
common throughout the industry, I tend to follow trends established by 
the most successful companies, not reinventing those wheels and instead 
devoting any resources I might spend on innovation to crafting the 
differentiators in our products.

Adobe, Microsoft, Apple, and pretty much every other major player I can 
think of sells software through their web site, and do not include a 
payment system in the software itself.

An exception to this is iTunes, but that package has a very different 
business model based around frequent low-cost purchases of individual 
songs and albums, rather than a one-time purchase for the software 
itself.  That said, it should also be noted that Apple has an unusually 
strong brand recognition and trust factor which raises consumer 
confidence to levels most of us can't hope to match.

If, like iTunes, you sell a wide range of low-cost content, making a 
built-in shopping system may prove worth the expense.

But in reviewing this option with clients, we decided that the cost of 
adding this feature provided a low ROI in even the best case, since it's 
a feature that if used at all will be used only once.  So instead we put 
that development expense toward features that are used in the daily 
workflow, the things that make our product worth buying.


Tip:  provide a PayPal option for your customers.  Mine kept asking for 
me PayPal for years before I finally got around the spending the five 
minutes it takes to set it up, and boy did I feel dumb for not doing so 
sooner - conversion rates bumped noticeably.

Using PayPal has two attractions:

- It's ultra-convenient to make a payment; just enter your address and 
password and you're done.

- Because it's in a separate account from one's normal banking and 
credit cards, it doesn't feel like spending real money; it feels like 
play money, making impulse buys much more frequent.


--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Dec 10 11:24:33 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:24:33 -0800
Subject: Show Globals
Message-ID: <493FED41.8070001@fourthworld.com>

Francis Nugent Dixon wrote:
> However, I don't know how to show globals assigned
> ONLY to the current stack. Does anybody know ?

I'm not sure what you mean.  Globals are global in scope, available to 
any script with a matching global declaration.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Dec 10 11:27:25 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:27:25 +0100
Subject: Will pay for help
In-Reply-To: <493FEB30.7060900@fourthworld.com>
References: <493FEB30.7060900@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20AB33D6-E381-4C1B-A237-884AEA80B369@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonsoir Lars,

I second Richard completely.
When you know that it takes five minutes to set up a 'Buy Now' button  
using Paypal web tools then just note the corresponding url given by  
Paypal and put a one liner in  a button: go url <url> to display a  
well known secure HTTPS page where your customers even may buy with a  
credit card if they don't have a Paypal account. One minute later you  
will receive an email accounting for a payment with the email of your  
customer.
Then you may act accordingly.
Why wanting to build your own solution when all this is quick and  
free (or almost since Paypal takes a tiny commission).
My two cents.


Le 10 d?c. 08 ? 17:15, Richard Gaskin a ?crit :

> Lars Brehmer wrote:
>> I think the KRM process of buying and unlocking with a click  
>> without  navigating a store, shopping carts, checkouts etc. would  
>> be the  perfect way to go, at least for me with this particular  
>> project, and  worth every penny of the fees thay charge for using  
>> this service.
>
> It certainly seems convenient, but unless you have an uncommonly  
> strong brand association and trust level with your audience you may  
> want to also maintain a shopping cart on the web.
>
> While no financial transaction is entirely hack-proof, customers  
> are used to buying on the web, and as long as they see the "locked"  
> icon in their browser they feel reasonably assured that their  
> sensitive credit card data is secure.
>
> When building a custom purchasing solution into your software, you  
> not only have the technical challenge of implementing it but also  
> take on the risk that your conversion rate may be lower because  
> customers have no idea what your software is doing under the hood.
>
> This perceived risk issue is exacerbated by an ever-growing number  
> of malware programs floating around, contributing to an erosion of  
> trust throughout the environment.
>
> The degree to which this trust factor will affect conversion will  
> of course depend on a great many factors, and for some audiences  
> the convenience might just outweigh the perceived risk.
>
> Just the same, you may want to play it safe and offer an option to  
> buy on the web.
>
>
> I haven't seen specific studies of conversion rates for software  
> sold on the web vs. with a built-in shopping system, and if anyone  
> has one I'd be very interested in reading it.
>
> But as a general rule, when it comes to generic business questions  
> common throughout the industry, I tend to follow trends established  
> by the most successful companies, not reinventing those wheels and  
> instead devoting any resources I might spend on innovation to  
> crafting the differentiators in our products.
>
> Adobe, Microsoft, Apple, and pretty much every other major player I  
> can think of sells software through their web site, and do not  
> include a payment system in the software itself.
>
> An exception to this is iTunes, but that package has a very  
> different business model based around frequent low-cost purchases  
> of individual songs and albums, rather than a one-time purchase for  
> the software itself.  That said, it should also be noted that Apple  
> has an unusually strong brand recognition and trust factor which  
> raises consumer confidence to levels most of us can't hope to match.
>
> If, like iTunes, you sell a wide range of low-cost content, making  
> a built-in shopping system may prove worth the expense.
>
> But in reviewing this option with clients, we decided that the cost  
> of adding this feature provided a low ROI in even the best case,  
> since it's a feature that if used at all will be used only once.   
> So instead we put that development expense toward features that are  
> used in the daily workflow, the things that make our product worth  
> buying.
>
>
> Tip:  provide a PayPal option for your customers.  Mine kept asking  
> for me PayPal for years before I finally got around the spending  
> the five minutes it takes to set it up, and boy did I feel dumb for  
> not doing so sooner - conversion rates bumped noticeably.
>
> Using PayPal has two attractions:
>
> - It's ultra-convenient to make a payment; just enter your address  
> and password and you're done.
>
> - Because it's in a separate account from one's normal banking and  
> credit cards, it doesn't feel like spending real money; it feels  
> like play money, making impulse buys much more frequent.
>
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World
>  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Dec 10 11:38:01 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:38:01 -0600
Subject: [ANN} Zygodact - complete serial key registration system
In-Reply-To: <94B70AC3-D99F-41BE-9F4A-9382D7794AA4@looktowindward.com>
References: <493EEBC6.9000508@hyperactivesw.com>
	<94B70AC3-D99F-41BE-9F4A-9382D7794AA4@looktowindward.com>
Message-ID: <493FF069.1020601@hyperactivesw.com>

Dave wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> In every RR based application I've shipped as a Standalone, the 
> Structure I've used is to have one "Main" Stack that holds the 
> standalone settings (basically just a dummy "Splash" Screen Window) and 
> a number of "Stacks" (that are also main stacks as far as RunRev is 
> concerned) that are held inside a subfolder. The Splash Window the does 
> a "go" to one of the stacks in the subfolder, e.g.
> 
> AppFolder:
> Spash.app
>           SubFolder:
>           Stack1.rev
>           Stack2.rev
>           Stack3.rev
> 
> Can Zygodact handle this situation? Also, does it password protect the 
> stacks too? Or just prevent the standalone from running?

Zygodact can handle this. You'd attach its registration stack to your 
mainstack (the standalone,) and call "zygodact" in your script before 
you open any other stack.

Zygodact does no password protection at all, that would be up to you. It 
doesn't interfere in any way with anything your stack does. It only 
checks for a valid registration when your scripts tell it to.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Wed Dec 10 11:39:37 2008
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke, FB01)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:39:37 +0100
Subject: Revolution moved to "Reference Assemblies"?
Message-ID: <1228927177.493ff0c9c0c8e@www.uni-kassel.de>

Today I wanted to access my Rev 3.0 folder (which had worked last night),
clicked at the folder to open it and got an error message kind of "check the
path" etc. I tried the same with the 2.9 folder and got the same result. Then
suddenly all my Rev folders - from 2.7.4 to 3.5 - had disappeared. This is on
Windows XP.

I shut down my computer and started it again. All the revolution folders were
still gone!

After that I made a file search for "revolution.exe" and found out that all 13
revolution folders had been moved to folder "Reference Assemblies" - and
fortunately they are all intact.

Any ideas what could have caused this moving of folders? Bill Gates playing some
Xmas tricks on me? I was online when the folders were moved.

Regards,

-- 
Wilhelm Sanke
<www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>

--------------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through http://www.uni-kassel.de/www-mail



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Dec 10 12:36:41 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:36:41 -0600
Subject: Will pay for help (Kagi KRM)
In-Reply-To: <ghonp7$ls9$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <963E4623-B6EE-498A-A98F-1DF9A30BEB7B@mac.com>
	<ghonp7$ls9$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <493FFE29.9060102@hyperactivesw.com>

Bill Marriott wrote:
> Hi Lars,
> 
> This sounds like something that might be an excellent addition to a future 
> version of the Zygodact product!
> 
> You might also want to see if there's any hint of who wrote the initial 
> stack they sent you. I'm sure others might like to see that stack as well, 
> before volunteering to help. Perhaps you could post a link to it?

The TeachMac system (featured on Rev's front page) is the client project 
I wrote that uses the Kagi KRM. I'm not sure who actually put together 
the KRM stack, but it was probably based on something I sent to Kagi 
when we were working out the details. Or maybe I wrote it and I forgot. 
:) Or more likely, it is a copy of the test stack that Brian Yennie make 
for us when he created the Kagi/RR external -- which was made available 
to Kagi for free by my client.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From bobs at twft.com  Wed Dec 10 13:15:27 2008
From: bobs at twft.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:15:27 -0800
Subject: Ugly ID memories
In-Reply-To: <493FE361.1070908@fourthworld.com>
References: <493FE361.1070908@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <63ADC8A2-7F28-4F15-8AE8-B0FF5679DE01@twft.com>

Very useful tidbit there Richard! I did not know that!

Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM

On Dec 10, 2008, at 7:42 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> This is why the altID can be useful for restoring objects:  the
> incrementer never works backward, so if you set the altID of a control
> to its actual ID prior to turning it into XML or some other
> representation, when you recreate it in the same stack you can be
> assured no other control is using that ID.



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 10 13:33:27 2008
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:33:27 -0800
Subject: Show Globals
In-Reply-To: <493FED41.8070001@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <C5654B77.53C69%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

On 12/10/08 8:24 AM, "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

> Francis Nugent Dixon wrote:
>> However, I don't know how to show globals assigned
>> ONLY to the current stack. Does anybody know ?
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean.  Globals are global in scope, available to
> any script with a matching global declaration.
> 
> --
>   Richard Gaskin

Richard is pointing out that globals are, well, global to the Rev
environment.  In fact, they are variables that are the property of the Rev
app, not any one stack or stack file.  This means that if you declare a
global, fill it with "a pony", the pony won't die until you quit Rev or
delete the global by using...

delete global gANiceWarmStable

It feels better to fill globals with things like "the unexpectedly-high
heating bill", then quit Rev.

The default is that globals live in memory as long as Rev is running.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas




From gbrackett at luceatlux.com  Wed Dec 10 13:39:46 2008
From: gbrackett at luceatlux.com (George C Brackett)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:39:46 -0500
Subject: Internet Applications I and II revlive videos
Message-ID: <EDCB55A2-52C8-43D6-9783-319A5CAEF483@luceatlux.com>

Many, many thanks to Jerry Daniels and Andre Garzia for outstanding  
presentations on how Revolution can be used to create internet-aware  
and -capable software.  I have finally gotten to viewing the many  
talks on the DVDs from the 08 revlive conference (which I could not  
attend), and very much appreciate those where both the enthusiasm of  
the presenters and the details of the code are so clear. -- George



From userev at canelasoftware.com  Wed Dec 10 14:30:46 2008
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:30:46 -0800
Subject: Getting the Serial Number of the User's computer
In-Reply-To: <C411347E-AA47-443F-B38B-E3691C241B91@ahsomme.com>
References: <C411347E-AA47-443F-B38B-E3691C241B91@ahsomme.com>
Message-ID: <9145BF7B-3871-41F3-A70F-CAD9B01E6FD7@canelasoftware.com>


On Dec 9, 2008, at 10:59 AM, Paul Looney wrote:

> How can I retrieve the computer serial number in OS X, Vista and  
> Linux from Rev?
> Thanks in advance, I appreciate it.


Hi Paul,

This is how we get the serial on OS X using shell.  It is very fast  
and has the added benefit of identifying refurb macs.

function getSerial
          put empty into tSerial
          put shell("/usr/sbin/system_profiler SPHardwareDataType")  
into tResult
          repeat with x=1 to the number of lines of tResult
               if "Serial Number" is in line x of tResult then put  
line x of tResult into tSerial
          end repeat
          if tSerial is not empty then put the last word of tSerial  
into tSerial
          if tSerial is empty then put "Refurb Mac" into tSerial
          return tSerial
end getSerial


Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com






From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Dec 10 14:31:46 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:31:46 -0800
Subject: Ann: New revJournal.com article: Software Marketing Case Study
Message-ID: <49401922.5010806@fourthworld.com>

David Simpson recently contributed a very useful article on marketing 
your software, now posted as the lead story on revJournal:

<http://www.revjournal.com>

I've long admired the thoroughness and professionalism of David's 
marketing, and am grateful he took the time to put together this case 
study loaded with specific things all of us can apply to our own 
marketing efforts.

Thanks, David.


If any of you would like to write an article for revJournal just send it 
to me as text or HTML.  As a webzine of, for, and by Rev developers, 
we're especially interested in helpful tips, tutorials, and "making of" 
stories that describe how you developed your products made with Rev, but 
will be happy to consider just about anything that would be of interest 
to the Rev developer community.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Dec 10 14:35:27 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:35:27 -0800
Subject: Ugly ID memories
Message-ID: <494019FF.5050802@fourthworld.com>

Bob Sneidar wrote:

 > On Dec 10, 2008, at 7:42 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >
 >> This is why the altID can be useful for restoring objects:
 >> the incrementer never works backward, so if you set the
 >> altID of a control to its actual ID prior to turning it into
 >> XML or some other representation, when you recreate it in
 >> the same stack you can be assured no other control is using
 >> that ID.
 >
 > Very useful tidbit there Richard! I did not know that!

Yeah, the tough thing about Rev is that there's always something new to 
learn.

But the great thing about Rev is that there's always something new to 
learn.

:)

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Dec 10 14:43:36 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:43:36 -0800
Subject: Internet Applications I and II revlive videos
Message-ID: <49401BE8.60907@fourthworld.com>

George C Brackett wrote:

> Many, many thanks to Jerry Daniels and Andre Garzia for outstanding  
> presentations on how Revolution can be used to create internet-aware  
> and -capable software.

I'll second that.  Andre and Jerry have made a long history of 
outstanding contributions to the Rev community.

George, if you find yourself daydreaming about the possibilities of 
putting Rev's one-liner Internet commands to work for you, check out 
this revJournal.com article on Reactor Lab, an online courseware system 
for distributing simulations:
<http://www.revjournal.com/features/reactorlab.html>

Another great example is Eric Chatonet's Revolution Search Engine, 
included in the Rev package at Help->Revolution Search Engine

Pulling resources from around the world, that nifty gadget not only 
makes short work of finding a lot of great Rev stuff, but is an 
inspiring example of cool and useful things you can do with Rev's 
built-in HTTP support.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From fmoyer at aol.com  Wed Dec 10 14:54:44 2008
From: fmoyer at aol.com (Fred moyer)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:54:44 -0500
Subject: Show Globals
In-Reply-To: <20081210180005.000A6488EA1@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20081210180005.000A6488EA1@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <DE143ECF-D51B-4EFA-B60C-25AA6ACB0158@aol.com>

>
> Francis Nugent Dixon wrote:
>> However, I don't know how to show globals assigned
>> ONLY to the current stack. Does anybody know ?
>
Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I'm not sure what you mean.  Globals are global in scope, available to
> any script with a matching global declaration.


Yes, but why would anyone want to see them when debugging a script  
that doesn't refer to them? For example, if I have a button whose  
script is:

on mouseup
    global  gBeginTime
    put the time into gBeginTime
    put the date into tDate
end mouseup

When debugging this, I want to see the following variable list:

gBeginTime   11:24 PM
tDate  11/18/08

Instead I see a gigantic list of globals that have been called by  
other stacks (I am creating a very complex set of stacks that run my  
business.) Simply scrolling down from gBeginTime and tDate will take  
forever and it's really confusing because you click on the scrollbar  
and nothing happens for over 5 seconds, and you're not sure you  
clicked on the scrollbar, so you click again, and then when it  
finally scrolls, it's gone too far. It is a similar situation when I  
press the scroll arrows or drag the slider. With all of these globals  
listed, there are these long delays.






From luis at anachreon.co.uk  Wed Dec 10 15:11:11 2008
From: luis at anachreon.co.uk (Luis)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:11:11 +0000
Subject: Revolution moved to "Reference Assemblies"?
In-Reply-To: <1228927177.493ff0c9c0c8e@www.uni-kassel.de>
References: <1228927177.493ff0c9c0c8e@www.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <4940225F.4030302@anachreon.co.uk>

Hiya,

I think that folder is something new to do with the .NET 3.0 Framework.
Do you have .NET 3.0 installed on your box?
Did you find that folder in the 'Program Files' folder?

How your stuff ended up there... Gremlins...

Cheers,

Luis.


Wilhelm Sanke, FB01 wrote:
> Today I wanted to access my Rev 3.0 folder (which had worked last night),
> clicked at the folder to open it and got an error message kind of "check the
> path" etc. I tried the same with the 2.9 folder and got the same result. Then
> suddenly all my Rev folders - from 2.7.4 to 3.5 - had disappeared. This is on
> Windows XP.
> 
> I shut down my computer and started it again. All the revolution folders were
> still gone!
> 
> After that I made a file search for "revolution.exe" and found out that all 13
> revolution folders had been moved to folder "Reference Assemblies" - and
> fortunately they are all intact.
> 
> Any ideas what could have caused this moving of folders? Bill Gates playing some
> Xmas tricks on me? I was online when the folders were moved.
> 
> Regards,
> 


From gbrackett at luceatlux.com  Wed Dec 10 15:16:35 2008
From: gbrackett at luceatlux.com (George C Brackett)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:16:35 -0500
Subject: Internet Applications I and II revlive videos
In-Reply-To: <49401BE8.60907@fourthworld.com>
References: <49401BE8.60907@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <74EBA5D8-B60B-4512-8570-E18677620383@luceatlux.com>

Thanks, Richard!  I'm extending a client/server system I built for the  
inner-city charter high school I helped found, so that it might be  
usable by other schools, and your suggestions will surely help.  (The  
system, called Citizenship, lets teachers quickly record instances if  
positive and disruptive behavior, and reports results in real time  
online so that the entire learning community -- students, parents,  
teachers, administrators -- can track both academic and civic behavior.)

George
http://luceatlux.com/gcb

On Dec 10, 2008, at 2:43 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

George C Brackett wrote:

> Many, many thanks to Jerry Daniels and Andre Garzia for outstanding   
> presentations on how Revolution can be used to create internet- 
> aware  and -capable software.

I'll second that.  Andre and Jerry have made a long history of  
outstanding contributions to the Rev community.

George, if you find yourself daydreaming about the possibilities of  
putting Rev's one-liner Internet commands to work for you, check out  
this revJournal.com article on Reactor Lab, an online courseware  
system for distributing simulations:
<http://www.revjournal.com/features/reactorlab.html>

Another great example is Eric Chatonet's Revolution Search Engine,  
included in the Rev package at Help->Revolution Search Engine

Pulling resources from around the world, that nifty gadget not only  
makes short work of finding a lot of great Rev stuff, but is an  
inspiring example of cool and useful things you can do with Rev's  
built-in HTTP support.

--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World
Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From devin_asay at byu.edu  Wed Dec 10 15:51:28 2008
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:51:28 -0700
Subject: Show Globals
In-Reply-To: <DE143ECF-D51B-4EFA-B60C-25AA6ACB0158@aol.com>
References: <20081210180005.000A6488EA1@mail.runrev.com>
	<DE143ECF-D51B-4EFA-B60C-25AA6ACB0158@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6543A9F1-C9B2-4A48-8805-8A20BE07D47C@byu.edu>


On Dec 10, 2008, at 12:54 PM, Fred moyer wrote:

>>
>> Francis Nugent Dixon wrote:
>>> However, I don't know how to show globals assigned
>>> ONLY to the current stack. Does anybody know ?
>>
> Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure what you mean.  Globals are global in scope, available  
>> to
>> any script with a matching global declaration.
>
>
> Yes, but why would anyone want to see them when debugging a script
> that doesn't refer to them? For example, if I have a button whose
> script is:
>
> on mouseup
>    global  gBeginTime
>    put the time into gBeginTime
>    put the date into tDate
> end mouseup
>
> When debugging this, I want to see the following variable list:
>
> gBeginTime   11:24 PM
> tDate  11/18/08
>
> Instead I see a gigantic list of globals that have been called by
> other stacks (I am creating a very complex set of stacks that run my
> business.) Simply scrolling down from gBeginTime and tDate will take
> forever and it's really confusing because you click on the scrollbar
> and nothing happens for over 5 seconds, and you're not sure you
> clicked on the scrollbar, so you click again, and then when it
> finally scrolls, it's gone too far. It is a similar situation when I
> press the scroll arrows or drag the slider. With all of these globals
> listed, there are these long delays.

Fred,

Didn't you say you're on Rev 3.0? Did you uncheck the "Show Globals"  
option in the script editor preferences? (I'm coming in to the  
discussion late, so I apologize if someone already addressed this.)

Devin


Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University



From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Wed Dec 10 15:58:48 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:58:48 -0800
Subject: Meaning of error codes
In-Reply-To: <F90A6C58-28F7-427E-A3EA-2E180E1F0A55@economy-x-talk.com>
References: <EC8B084E-CA46-47AB-8EC1-E5B092376E77@aol.com>
	<493F4DAA.6010900@hyperactivesw.com>
	<p06240807c5650cb90116@[192.168.1.105]>
	<F90A6C58-28F7-427E-A3EA-2E180E1F0A55@economy-x-talk.com>
Message-ID: <p0624080bc565ddc4addf@[192.168.1.105]>

Bought it, got  it. Thanks Mark.

sqb

>Hi Stephen,
>
>The list of error codes is somewhere in the stack revErrorDisplay. 
>My shareware library to convert error codes into something 
>meaningful is called errorLib and can be found at 
><http://economy-x-talk.com/developers.html>. There is also an 
>on-line converter, at <http://www.runrev.info>, but due to some 
>hardware problems it doesn't work always.
>
>--
>Best regards,
>
>Mark Schonewille

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -





From briany at qldlearning.com  Wed Dec 10 15:59:40 2008
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:59:40 -0800
Subject: Will pay for help (Kagi KRM)
In-Reply-To: <493FFE29.9060102@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <963E4623-B6EE-498A-A98F-1DF9A30BEB7B@mac.com>
	<ghonp7$ls9$1@ger.gmane.org> <493FFE29.9060102@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <959D8C9A-FD01-463F-851C-CDB733B2E350@qldlearning.com>

If someone wants to send it to me, I can probably identify it as my  
own (or not).
Provided it's actually my handy work, feel free to contact me off-list  
with a copy of the stack and I'll try to help. It should be pretty  
straightforward to use, although I haven't looked at it in a while...

> Bill Marriott wrote:
>> Hi Lars,
>> This sounds like something that might be an excellent addition to a  
>> future version of the Zygodact product!
>> You might also want to see if there's any hint of who wrote the  
>> initial stack they sent you. I'm sure others might like to see that  
>> stack as well, before volunteering to help. Perhaps you could post  
>> a link to it?
>
> The TeachMac system (featured on Rev's front page) is the client  
> project I wrote that uses the Kagi KRM. I'm not sure who actually  
> put together the KRM stack, but it was probably based on something I  
> sent to Kagi when we were working out the details. Or maybe I wrote  
> it and I forgot. :) Or more likely, it is a copy of the test stack  
> that Brian Yennie make for us when he created the Kagi/RR external  
> -- which was made available to Kagi for free by my client.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com





From pmbrig at gmail.com  Wed Dec 10 15:59:45 2008
From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter Brigham)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:59:45 -0500
Subject: Leopard button problem
In-Reply-To: <20081208160721.5FBF948A424@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20081208160721.5FBF948A424@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <C8B2141C-289C-4CA4-8E11-467D33FFF039@gmail.com>

I just had a fatal motherboard crash on my old G4 iBook and switched  
in a hurry to a MacBook running Leopard (luckily didn't lose any  
data). I was using Panther on the G4, and I'm encountering the  
vicissitudes of Leopard. I've run into a problem. The archives show  
that this cropped up with Leopard when it first came out:

> From: Ken Ray <kray at ...>
> Subject: Re: Revolution Not Playing with Leopard
> Newsgroups: gmane.comp.ide.revolution.user
> Date: 2007-10-28 06:26:41 GMT (1 year, 6 weeks, 2 days, 8 hours and  
> 21 minutes ago)
>
> On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:59:06 -0700, Michael Robinson wrote:
>
>>  I also jest installed leopard and all me buttons look like a windows
>>  program square and flat!.
>
> This is one of the gotcha's so far in Leopard (I don't know if RunRev
> can fix this), but if the button style you are using is "standard",  
> but
> the height of the button is more than 24 pixels, the style remains
> internally as "standard", but it draws like a "rectangle" button.

I have some buttons that should look like standard (rounded ends)  
buttons that are now appearing as rectangle buttons. Is there a  
workaround for this??? It sort of destroys the coherence of my GUI --  
I use a standard button for standard things like "find", changing  
backgrounds, etc, and a square button when clicking it will result in  
a group of controls dropping down for custom functions. Now the visual  
distinction between the two types is lost.

Something to do with the Appearance Manager? How do I fix this?

Peter M. Brigham
pmbrig at gmail.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Dec 10 16:20:09 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:20:09 -0800
Subject: Leopard button problem
Message-ID: <49403289.2030207@fourthworld.com>

Peter Brigham wrote:
> I have some buttons that should look like standard (rounded ends)  
> buttons that are now appearing as rectangle buttons. Is there a  
> workaround for this??? 

Under Leopard, standard buttons only take on the rounded appearance at 
the standard size, 24 pixels or less.  At 25px and up they take on the 
rectangle appearance.

The push button controls used by Apple are 22px tall.  Just lay them out 
as Apple does and your UI should look great.


The specs for control sizes used to be in the OS X HIG, but 
double-checking this morning I can find only the specs for the spacing 
between controls, and not for the controls themselves.

This seems an odd omission.

Did I merely miss this, or did Apple actually forget to include control 
size specs in the most recent HIG?


-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From jerry.daniels at me.com  Wed Dec 10 16:23:51 2008
From: jerry.daniels at me.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:23:51 -0600
Subject: Internet Applications I and II revlive videos
In-Reply-To: <EDCB55A2-52C8-43D6-9783-319A5CAEF483@luceatlux.com>
References: <EDCB55A2-52C8-43D6-9783-319A5CAEF483@luceatlux.com>
Message-ID: <5DC7276D-1157-47FB-9F60-6F09EEEE8350@me.com>

You're entirely welcome, George!

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Daniels & Mara, Inc.
Makers of GLX2
http://www.glx2.com

On Dec 10, 2008, at 12:39 PM, George C Brackett wrote:

> Many, many thanks to Jerry Daniels and Andre Garzia for outstanding  
> presentations on how Revolution can be used to create internet-aware  
> and -capable software.  I have finally gotten to viewing the many  
> talks on the DVDs from the 08 revlive conference (which I could not  
> attend), and very much appreciate those where both the enthusiasm of  
> the presenters and the details of the code are so clear. -- George
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Dec 10 17:28:18 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:28:18 -0600
Subject: Will pay for help (Kagi KRM)
In-Reply-To: <959D8C9A-FD01-463F-851C-CDB733B2E350@qldlearning.com>
References: <963E4623-B6EE-498A-A98F-1DF9A30BEB7B@mac.com>	<ghonp7$ls9$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<493FFE29.9060102@hyperactivesw.com>
	<959D8C9A-FD01-463F-851C-CDB733B2E350@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <49404282.5090402@hyperactivesw.com>

Brian Yennie wrote:
> If someone wants to send it to me, I can probably identify it as my own 
> (or not).
> Provided it's actually my handy work, feel free to contact me off-list 
> with a copy of the stack and I'll try to help. It should be pretty 
> straightforward to use, although I haven't looked at it in a while...

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's yours. Our client gave it to Kagi to 
distribute. No one else has made one, I don't think. I just wrote to 
Lars too and sent him a copy.

One big happy family...

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From effendi at wanadoo.fr  Wed Dec 10 17:30:38 2008
From: effendi at wanadoo.fr (Francis Nugent Dixon)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 23:30:38 +0100
Subject: Show globals
Message-ID: <386F1406-DCF6-4426-922B-87990B663E7A@wanadoo.fr>

Hi from Paris,

Sorry Richard, my explanation was vague.
Launch a standalone, of any single stack,
and look at the global variables as I do,
and you see only those currently assigned
to the stack (obviously).

In the IDE, open several stacks at once,
switching from one stack to another, and
in any of the stacks, you see the total list
of globals defined by all current stacks, and
you don't know which globals belong to which
stack.

Best Regards

-Francis



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Dec 10 17:44:59 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:44:59 -0800
Subject: Show globals
Message-ID: <4940466B.3080904@fourthworld.com>

Francis Nugent Dixon wrote:
> In the IDE, open several stacks at once,
> switching from one stack to another, and
> in any of the stacks, you see the total list
> of globals defined by all current stacks, and
> you don't know which globals belong to which
> stack.

It seems appropriate that the Message Box shows all globals, since 
they're global in scope and available to every script running during the 
session.

The IDE itself shows only a very few globals, so I'm assuming the ones 
you're seeing are for your own stacks, yes?

If so, one solution might be to consider using arrays, where you store 
values for a given stack as elements in a single global.

Another might be to reconsider the need for such globals, perhaps opting 
for script-local variables for those values only needed by a single script.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 10 18:55:26 2008
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:55:26 -0800
Subject: Show Globals
In-Reply-To: <DE143ECF-D51B-4EFA-B60C-25AA6ACB0158@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C56596EE.53CAB%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Hello, again Fred,

Since you said you are using a complex of stacks to run your business, you
are probably in the category of needing to move away from globals and to
something like SQL or Valentina rather than hold all the data in memory.

Custom properties are in RAM when the stack containing them is in memory,
which is why they are so fast.  The same goes for the multi-dimensional
arrays that are new to Rev 3.0+

 The slowness might be that the debugging fields are trying to load the
first 100 chars in a very large number of filled variables and globals.

Why not try something like this for your larger globals?

on mouseup
   set the beginTime of stack "dataCache" to the time
   set the tDate of stack "dataCache" to the date
end mouseup

Here is another version that is a little more compact and useful:
on mouseup
   setValue the time, "beginTime", "dataCache", ""
   put the date into tDate
end mouseup

This might speed things up quite a bit for you without SQL.
To see a working version in a stack, copy the lines below.

------------ start copy -----------------
--paste into a new stack script
--save as "dataCache.rev"
--then double click

on mousedoubleup
  setValue the time, "beginTime", "dataCache", ""  -- a procedure
  get the result;  breakpoint
  --use this for debugging the new value in the IT variable
   
  setValue (the time & space), "sequenceTime", "dataCache", "before"
   -- this is a procedure call
  get the result; breakpoint
  --use this for debugging the new value in the IT variable
   
   
  put the date into tDate --local to this handler
   
  put getValue("beginTime", "dataCache") into it
    -- this is a function call
  breakpoint
end mousedoubleup

------ support handlers  --------------
--put this script into back and it will be available to all handlers
--   in any stack
on setValue val, var, where, place
  if place is empty then
    set the var of stack where to val
  else if place is "before" then
     set the var of stack where to (val & the var of stack where)
  else if place is "after" then
     set the var of stack where to (the var of stack where & val)
  end if
  return the var of stack where
end setValue

function getValue var, where
    return the var of stack where
end getValue
----------  end copy ---------

On 12/10/08 11:54 AM, "Fred moyer" <fmoyer at aol.com> wrote:

>> 
>> Francis Nugent Dixon wrote:
>>> However, I don't know how to show globals assigned
>>> ONLY to the current stack. Does anybody know ?
>> 
> Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> I'm not sure what you mean.  Globals are global in scope, available to
>> any script with a matching global declaration.
> 
> 
> Yes, but why would anyone want to see them when debugging a script
> that doesn't refer to them? For example, if I have a button whose
> script is:
> 
> on mouseup
>     global  gBeginTime
>     put the time into gBeginTime
>     put the date into tDate
> end mouseup
> 
> When debugging this, I want to see the following variable list:
> 
> gBeginTime   11:24 PM
> tDate  11/18/08
> 
> Instead I see a gigantic list of globals that have been called by
> other stacks (I am creating a very complex set of stacks that run my
> business.) Simply scrolling down from gBeginTime and tDate will take
> forever and it's really confusing because you click on the scrollbar
> and nothing happens for over 5 seconds, and you're not sure you
> clicked on the scrollbar, so you click again, and then when it
> finally scrolls, it's gone too far. It is a similar situation when I
> press the scroll arrows or drag the slider. With all of these globals
> listed, there are these long delays.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Dec 10 21:27:28 2008
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:27:28 -0800
Subject: Things I Learned Recently
In-Reply-To: <65502594125.20081208093514@ahsoftware.net>
References: <817911.45000.qm@web65404.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<65502594125.20081208093514@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <197707328187.20081210182728@ahsoftware.net>

Some Things I Thought I Knew But On Checking Find Aren't True

1. Back in the day I could have sworn that "contains" was deprecated
as being much slower than "is in", in that it made an extra copy of
the target before checking. This is no longer true, if it ever was.
The following two statements run at exactly the same speed:

if x contains y then
if y is in x then

2. I also thought that the predefined constants zero and one, etc.
existed so that the compiler didn't have to evaluate a numeric value
at runtime and so were much faster to use in scripts. This also turns
out not to be the case:

put 0 into x
    is noticeably faster than
put zero into x

which probably begs the question, *why* would one use the predefined
constants if they're actually slower than their numeric equivalents?

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Dec 10 21:47:21 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:47:21 -0600
Subject: Things I Learned Recently
In-Reply-To: <197707328187.20081210182728@ahsoftware.net>
References: <817911.45000.qm@web65404.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>	<65502594125.20081208093514@ahsoftware.net>
	<197707328187.20081210182728@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <49407F39.5030109@hyperactivesw.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:

> which probably begs the question, *why* would one use the predefined
> constants if they're actually slower than their numeric equivalents?
> 

HC compatibility mostly, I think.

Interesting benchmarks.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Wed Dec 10 22:26:35 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:26:35 -0800
Subject: Slashdotter looking for kids' programming language
Message-ID: <4be051070812101926o1ba687a7qc4bf1064827c8e8f@mail.gmail.com>

http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/10/2257223

Someone might want to suggest Rev...

Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com


From james at thehales.id.au  Thu Dec 11 01:40:09 2008
From: james at thehales.id.au (James Hale)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:40:09 +1100
Subject: getting the word and line chunk of words simultaneously
Message-ID: <87E4D1F6-A81A-4481-8210-4F2995E4A3A3@thehales.id.au>

Hi,

I am trying to process a body of text in order to populate a database  
with word positions within the text.

However I do not just want the word position within the text itself.

I also want the line the word is located and the position within that  
line.

So, as an example I end up with the following for one word, say  
"football"

Word:  football
Text position: 132
Line:	4
Line Position: 13

Looking over the docs I could do this by placing the text into a field  
and select each word in turn and then use the selectedLine function to  
determine the line and the selected chunk to get the start and end  
characters but this is not enough. Besides, these functions require  
actually selecting the text in the field which I gather would slow  
things down considerably.

Has anyone on the list needed to do something like this before?

If so, any pointers?


James Hale

james at thehales.id.au

Tel: +61 3 9386 2516
Fax: +61 3 9386 1387





From wjm at wjm.org  Thu Dec 11 03:21:03 2008
From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 03:21:03 -0500
Subject: Slashdotter looking for kids' programming language
References: <4be051070812101926o1ba687a7qc4bf1064827c8e8f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ghqihf$or$1@ger.gmane.org>

Actually, it would be great if a LOT of people suggested Rev, and in some 
depth, according to their passion! (Richmond, this seems RIGHT up your 
alley!) The thread is filled with a lot of people who are suggesting Ruby, 
Python, even C++! Strikes me as verging on child abuse to subject a 14-yo to 
that, but who am I to say? :)

Seriously, would love to see folks come out and letting the world know about 
our product, it would be a great way to promote the language we all love.

"Judy Perry" <katheryn.swynford at gmail.com>
> Subj: Slashdotter looking for kids' programming language
>
> http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/10/2257223
>
> Someone might want to suggest Rev...





From wjm at wjm.org  Thu Dec 11 03:28:03 2008
From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 03:28:03 -0500
Subject: getting the word and line chunk of words simultaneously
References: <87E4D1F6-A81A-4481-8210-4F2995E4A3A3@thehales.id.au>
Message-ID: <ghqiuj$1sf$1@ger.gmane.org>

Did you have a look at the functions offset and lineoffset?

put "football" into myWord
put "Text position:" && offset(myWord,theContainer)
put lineOffset(myWord,theContainer) into L
put "Line:" && L
put "Line position:" && offset(myWord,line L of theContainer)



"James Hale" <james at thehales.id.au> wrote

> I do not just want the word position within the text itself.
>
> I also want the line the word is located and the position within that 
> line.
>
> So, as an example I end up with the following for one word, say 
> "football"
>
> Word:  football
> Text position: 132
> Line: 4
> Line Position: 13 





From B.Cornaz at gmx.net  Thu Dec 11 05:08:08 2008
From: B.Cornaz at gmx.net (Beat Cornaz)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:08:08 +0100
Subject: Core Midi
Message-ID: <2b3d75acc567baedecc73d26a596a116@gmx.net>

Hi,

how can I address the   'Core Midi'    in OSX from within Revolution?

Thanks, Beat




From geradamas at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 11 05:42:30 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 02:42:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Slashdotter looking for kids' programming language
Message-ID: <560900.28789.qm@web37501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Bill Marriot wrote:

"Actually, it would be great if a LOT of people suggested Rev, and in some 
depth, according to their passion! (Richmond, this seems RIGHT up your 
alley!)"

and, of course, the raving ego-maniac rises to the bait.

"The thread is filled with a lot of people who are suggesting Ruby, 
Python, even C++! Strikes me as verging on child abuse to subject a 14-yo to that, but who am I to say? :)"

Ooh, Yes, let's talk about "child abuse' (being myself a victim of it;
many children abuse ME every day):

My 16 year-old has just suffered 'deep, lasting trauma' at the hands of 
PASCAL 5.5. [actually, the real trauma was caused by having his Dad 
sitting beside him telling him awful "when I was at Durham" stories, but I
 digress ] But for a very simple reason: countries like Bulgaria (cannot 
decide whether it qualifies as third-world or simply 'turd' world) are not
 prepared to spend money on anything vaguely smacking of education. And 
any old fool can download FREEdos and bung it on an old piece of junk 
along with the GEM GUI - I know, I did it myself in about 15 minutes: 
comes with PASCAL inside.

Now, BACK TO THE FUTURE; I have urged, several times, in varying degrees 
of linguistic 'heat', RR to re-release Runtime Revolution 2 FREE version.
I would be straight up the road at the Ministry of Misinformation (whoops, 
Education) pushing RR like nobody's business. Now, while the Bulgarian 
government may be a bunch of cheap-jacks, and the Bulgarians may pride 
themselves on being kings of software piracy (Yup!); I believe that 
re-releasing RR 2 would actually pay off; not just in Bulg. but 
world-wide.

Of course RR 2.0.1 could be revamped with a tedious start-up screen that 
delayed you for 3-4 minutes while it sung the praises of RR 3.

After all, one can download a ten-lines-of-code-limited version of 
Metacard for WIN / MAC / LIN right now (I know, just bunged it on my new 
toy; a P4 1.7 GHz running Ubuntu 8.04.1). However, as we all know, 
the GUI of Metacard is not very kiddy-friendly.

I would be more than happy to pitch in my alternative revTools stack 
I made for 2.0!

Were I part of RR I would be urging a huge "education push", call it 
"outreach", call it what you like.

Judy Perry wrote:

"Someone might want to suggest Rev..."

To which the inevitable reply is; "Why don't you?"

The more people who vote for RR the better.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Thu Dec 11 05:48:39 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:48:39 +0100
Subject: Core Midi
In-Reply-To: <2b3d75acc567baedecc73d26a596a116@gmx.net>
References: <2b3d75acc567baedecc73d26a596a116@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <6A94CF1C-6769-4B21-849C-87A9711DCFCA@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi Beat,

Regarding MIDI, did you read my reply to your question in the Dutch  
forum, <http://www.runrev.info/rrforum>?

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to  
discuss your custom software project!

On 11 dec 2008, at 11:08, Beat Cornaz wrote:

> Hi,
>
> how can I address the   'Core Midi'    in OSX from within Revolution?
>
> Thanks, Beat



From geradamas at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 11 05:52:55 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 02:52:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Slashdot: Dunnit!
Message-ID: <229906.38566.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dunnit!

http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/10/2257223

Come on Youall!

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From rmicout at online.fr  Thu Dec 11 06:00:30 2008
From: rmicout at online.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Micout?=)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:00:30 +0100
Subject: Core Midi
In-Reply-To: <6A94CF1C-6769-4B21-849C-87A9711DCFCA@economy-x-talk.com>
References: <2b3d75acc567baedecc73d26a596a116@gmx.net>
	<6A94CF1C-6769-4B21-849C-87A9711DCFCA@economy-x-talk.com>
Message-ID: <34E43659-35B6-4151-A5F5-6621A8A671D3@online.fr>

Hello,
I am interesed with this question also, but I can't find your reply  
in the Dutch forum
Ren? from Paris

Le 11 d?c. 08 ? 11:48, Mark Schonewille a ?crit :

> Hi Beat,
>
> Regarding MIDI, did you read my reply to your question in the Dutch  
> forum, <http://www.runrev.info/rrforum>?
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Schonewille
>
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> http://economy-x-talk.com
> http://www.salery.biz
> Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum
>
> We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to  
> discuss your custom software project!
>
> On 11 dec 2008, at 11:08, Beat Cornaz wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> how can I address the   'Core Midi'    in OSX from within Revolution?
>>
>> Thanks, Beat
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From geradamas at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 11 06:01:02 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 03:01:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Leopard button problem
Message-ID: <646459.39620.qm@web37501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Frankly I am extremely wary of cross-platform consistency of RR artefacts,
especially buttons.

Therefore I normally make a mockup stack containing the buttons I will 
need in a project and screenshot the lot, then 'cut them out' with my 
favourite graphics program (GIMP) and save them as either GIF or PNG 
images. Obviously this is a bit time-consuming, but it guarantees that 
things will look the same on WIN / MAC / LIN. I normally import the 
images onto an unused card and reference them as icons for buttons; 
this allows for showing buttons as 'visited' and so on.

After a time I have collected a series of button images that serve 
almost all my purposes.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From jbv.silences at club-internet.fr  Thu Dec 11 07:24:18 2008
From: jbv.silences at club-internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:24:18 +0100
Subject: Things I Learned Recently
References: <817911.45000.qm@web65404.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<65502594125.20081208093514@ahsoftware.net>
	<197707328187.20081210182728@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <4941066B.F1EE27BB@club-internet.fr>



Mark Wieder a *crit :

> Some Things I Thought I Knew But On Checking Find Aren't True
>
> 1. Back in the day I could have sworn that "contains" was deprecated
> as being much slower than "is in", in that it made an extra copy of
> the target before checking. This is no longer true, if it ever was.
> The following two statements run at exactly the same speed:

don't know if anyone is interested, but in the same vein, I've been living
for years with the idea that variables organized as items were faster to
process than variables organized as words, but lately I discovered that
wordoffset is actually faster than itemoffset .
Examples (tested on my old PC under XP with Rev 2.5) :

put "toto tata titi tete" into myVar
put the milliseconds into tt
repeat 100000 times
    if wordoffset("tete",ref) > 0 then
end if
end repeat
put the milliseconds - tt
--    returns a value between 103 and 110

put "toto,tata,titi,tete" into myVar
put the milliseconds into tt
repeat 100000 times
    if itemoffset("tete",ref) > 0 then
end if
end repeat
put the milliseconds - tt
--    returns a value between 130 and 136

wordoffset seems to be 15 to 20% faster, which is a lot IMHO...

Best,
JB



From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Dec 11 07:22:05 2008
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:22:05 +0000
Subject: Things I Learned Recently
In-Reply-To: <4941066B.F1EE27BB@club-internet.fr>
References: <817911.45000.qm@web65404.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>	<65502594125.20081208093514@ahsoftware.net>	<197707328187.20081210182728@ahsoftware.net>
	<4941066B.F1EE27BB@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <494105ED.80706@tweedly.net>

jbv wrote:
> don't know if anyone is interested, but in the same vein, I've been living
> for years with the idea that variables organized as items were faster to
> process than variables organized as words, but lately I discovered that
> wordoffset is actually faster than itemoffset .
> Examples (tested on my old PC under XP with Rev 2.5) :
>
> put "toto tata titi tete" into myVar
> put the milliseconds into tt
> repeat 100000 times
>     if wordoffset("tete",ref) > 0 then
> end if
> end repeat
> put the milliseconds - tt
> --    returns a value between 103 and 110
>
> put "toto,tata,titi,tete" into myVar
> put the milliseconds into tt
> repeat 100000 times
>     if itemoffset("tete",ref) > 0 then
> end if
> end repeat
> put the milliseconds - tt
> --    returns a value between 130 and 136
>
> wordoffset seems to be 15 to 20% faster, which is a lot IMHO...
>
>   
I agree 15-20% seems significant - but I get almost exactly the opposite 
results from that test :-)

I get itemoffset returning times around 52-54, while wordoffset gives 
around 43-44 - suggesting itemoffset is around 20% slower.

(on Windows Vista, Rev 3.0)

-- Alex.


From jbv.silences at club-internet.fr  Thu Dec 11 07:48:44 2008
From: jbv.silences at club-internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:48:44 +0100
Subject: Things I Learned Recently
References: <817911.45000.qm@web65404.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<65502594125.20081208093514@ahsoftware.net>
	<197707328187.20081210182728@ahsoftware.net>
	<4941066B.F1EE27BB@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <49410C24.28D62510@club-internet.fr>

Hi again

I just realized that there was a mistake in the code posted
in my previous message... Please find the right code below
(conclusions of the test remain the same though) :

put "toto tata titi tete" into myVar
put the milliseconds into tt
repeat 100000 times
    if wordoffset("tete",myVar) > 0 then
end if
end repeat
put the milliseconds - tt
--    returns a value between 103 and 110

put "toto,tata,titi,tete" into myVar
put the milliseconds into tt
repeat 100000 times
    if itemoffset("tete",myVar) > 0 then
end if
end repeat
put the milliseconds - tt
--    returns a value between 130 and 136



From rolf.kocherhans at id.uzh.ch  Thu Dec 11 09:01:54 2008
From: rolf.kocherhans at id.uzh.ch (Rolf Kocherhans)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:01:54 +0100
Subject: Terminal Shell encoding ISO to UTF8
Message-ID: <371C02B7-3072-462D-B54F-BD58F3FA94C3@id.uzh.ch>

Hello all

I asked a similar question just some weeks ago but now the problemis a  
little different.

The problem regards german umlauts (a,o,u with two dots on top).

I read out info from a MAC plist file (INFO = settings file for WIN  
users !) with the "default read" shell command and put
the result into a variable. When the variable contains umlauts and I  
display it I get:

- for Peter Muller (where the u, would have two dots on top)
- Peter M\334ller

If I look inside the plist file with the "Property Llist Editor" the  
name appears
correct on 10.3, 10.4 and 10.5, but if I fetch the name with the  
"default read" shell command
I always get the above.

I searched with google and found out that this is ISO 8859-1 but in  
oktal format
eg. umlauts o returns \326, u returns \334, a returns \344 etc.

Is there a way to change this automatically to utf8 with Revolution?

I tried dozens of variants of uniencode and unidecode but got nowhere
also isotomac did not help.


Can anyone help ?

Cheers
Rolf


From andre at andregarzia.com  Thu Dec 11 10:05:56 2008
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:05:56 -0200
Subject: Internet Applications I and II revlive videos
In-Reply-To: <EDCB55A2-52C8-43D6-9783-319A5CAEF483@luceatlux.com>
References: <EDCB55A2-52C8-43D6-9783-319A5CAEF483@luceatlux.com>
Message-ID: <7c87a2a10812110705l4c595d0fwf1296fdb700a69c6@mail.gmail.com>

George,

Thank you very much. I always think nobody will understand my english,
so I hope my code is clear. Your feedback is very good, the sessions
objective is to pass information, so if we succeeded then we're all
happy.

thanks again!

Cheers
andre

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 4:39 PM, George C Brackett
<gbrackett at luceatlux.com> wrote:
> Many, many thanks to Jerry Daniels and Andre Garzia for outstanding
> presentations on how Revolution can be used to create internet-aware and
> -capable software.  I have finally gotten to viewing the many talks on the
> DVDs from the 08 revlive conference (which I could not attend), and very
> much appreciate those where both the enthusiasm of the presenters and the
> details of the code are so clear. -- George
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.


From gbrackett at luceatlux.com  Thu Dec 11 10:51:26 2008
From: gbrackett at luceatlux.com (George C Brackett)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:51:26 -0500
Subject: Internet Applications I and II revlive videos
In-Reply-To: <7c87a2a10812110705l4c595d0fwf1296fdb700a69c6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EDCB55A2-52C8-43D6-9783-319A5CAEF483@luceatlux.com>
	<7c87a2a10812110705l4c595d0fwf1296fdb700a69c6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3A84463B-5051-470D-B0B1-4EDE1445A11E@luceatlux.com>

Your English is quite understandable, as I'm sure many others have  
told you.  I cannot speak any other language with fluency, and I  
admire those, like you, who can.

Speaking of code, are the examples from your Exchanging Data Over the  
Internet talk available?  I enjoyed the talk, but the video didn't  
include any slides.

Thanks again for not only information, but also instruction!
George

On Dec 11, 2008, at 10:05 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

George,

Thank you very much. I always think nobody will understand my english,
so I hope my code is clear. Your feedback is very good, the sessions
objective is to pass information, so if we succeeded then we're all
happy.

thanks again!

Cheers
andre

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 4:39 PM, George C Brackett
<gbrackett at luceatlux.com> wrote:
> Many, many thanks to Jerry Daniels and Andre Garzia for outstanding
> presentations on how Revolution can be used to create internet-aware  
> and
> -capable software.  I have finally gotten to viewing the many talks  
> on the
> DVDs from the 08 revlive conference (which I could not attend), and  
> very
> much appreciate those where both the enthusiasm of the presenters  
> and the
> details of the code are so clear. -- George
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com  Thu Dec 11 11:01:56 2008
From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 08:01:56 -0800
Subject: Revolution on Amazon - Please Discuss, Tag and List
Message-ID: <BB53361213DF46C7B00A20D45762215E@GATEWAY>

Hello all,

We've gotten Rev up on Amazon. Amazon now features customer custom tags,
reviews and discussion groups (you already know there's a referal program
too, right?). Programming products don't get a lot of attention on Amazon so
far, but there's a growing list of discussions and invariably they are about
mainstream languages like C++.

http://www.amazon.com/Runtime-Revolution-Studio/dp/B001K42BW0/
http://www.amazon.com/Runtime-Revolution-Enterprise/dp/B001K53I12/

Even if you've already purchased Revolution for yourself, tagging, listing,
discussing etc, these things all increase awareness of Revolution. Amazon
has also launched a sort of wiki system too, called Amapedia.com. You can
also participate in the Amazon associates program too and collect some
percentage of the sale.

Raising awareness of Rev on Amazon helps build awareness of Rev in general -
your involvement would really help out.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
Mirye Software Publishing
http://www.mirye.com

Mirye Community NING
http://miryesoftware.ning.com 



From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Thu Dec 11 11:13:52 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 08:13:52 -0800
Subject: Slashdotter looking for kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <560900.28789.qm@web37501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <560900.28789.qm@web37501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4be051070812110813j30090ba6pc3e25c56e2efc2c5@mail.gmail.com>

Well, you know, Richmond, wouldn't you think that if I was suggesting it,
I'd already done it?!
Beat you to it...  ;-)

Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Richmond Mathewson <geradamas at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Judy Perry wrote:
>
> "Someone might want to suggest Rev..."
>
> To which the inevitable reply is; "Why don't you?"
>
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Dec 11 12:06:30 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:06:30 -0800
Subject: Revolution on Amazon - Please Discuss, Tag and List
Message-ID: <49414896.4010208@fourthworld.com>

Lynn Fredricks wrote:

> We've gotten Rev up on Amazon. Amazon now features customer custom tags,
> reviews and discussion groups (you already know there's a referal program
> too, right?). Programming products don't get a lot of attention on Amazon so
> far, but there's a growing list of discussions and invariably they are about
> mainstream languages like C++.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Runtime-Revolution-Studio/dp/B001K42BW0/
> http://www.amazon.com/Runtime-Revolution-Enterprise/dp/B001K53I12/

Well done.

With the product listed there under its actual name, I did not hesitate 
to add my comments.  I agree that it's helpful for all of us for others 
to do the same.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Thu Dec 11 12:21:14 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:21:14 -0800
Subject: Revolution on Amazon - Please Discuss, Tag and List
In-Reply-To: <BB53361213DF46C7B00A20D45762215E@GATEWAY>
References: <BB53361213DF46C7B00A20D45762215E@GATEWAY>
Message-ID: <p06240801c566fbf2c5b4@[192.168.1.105]>

They got the description wrong on enterprise:

"You select one operating system for development, but can deploy to 
all supported operating systems."

cut and paste has a downside.


I see this all the time.


>Even if you've already purchased Revolution for yourself, tagging, listing,
>discussing etc, these things all increase awareness of Revolution. Amazon
>has also launched a sort of wiki system too, called Amapedia.com. You can
>also participate in the Amazon associates program too and collect some
>percentage of the sale.
>
>Raising awareness of Rev on Amazon helps build awareness of Rev in general -
>your involvement would really help out.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Lynn Fredricks

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -




From bobs at twft.com  Thu Dec 11 12:50:03 2008
From: bobs at twft.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:50:03 -0800
Subject: Show globals
In-Reply-To: <4940466B.3080904@fourthworld.com>
References: <4940466B.3080904@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <D3FC9D3A-3052-4628-B92C-9F340604D885@twft.com>

The big thing about globals for me, even more than their scope, is  
their persistence. I can declare a global and check it's current value  
in the message box without any script even running. They are the only  
way to do environment variables, where the state of various things can  
be maintained long term while the applications is "running" (an odd  
concept in Revolution since nothing the user creates is actually  
"running" most of the time.)

For that reason alone I rely heavily on globals. I would only use  
script local variables for temporary variables that only need to live  
while the script runs. For any serious application which makes heavy  
use of variables, globals are almost the defacto storage medium. I can  
see how it would be a real problem for a complex application to bog  
down when debugging.

Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM

On Dec 10, 2008, at 2:44 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Another might be to reconsider the need for such globals, perhaps  
> opting
> for script-local variables for those values only needed by a single  
> script.



From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Thu Dec 11 12:52:39 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:52:39 -0800
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
Message-ID: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>

I again come hat-in-hand to ask for some really ugly-looking code examples
in those "real world" programming languages to compare with Rev for the
Slashdot thread.
Posters there are actually recommending things like Assembly(!), Java, & C#!
<shudders>

Specifically the OP was looking to teach basics such as conditionals,
variables & loops.

Does anyone have any ugly examples?

Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:21 AM, Bill Marriott <wjm at wjm.org> wrote:

> Actually, it would be great if a LOT of people suggested Rev, and in some
> depth, according to their passion! (Richmond, this seems RIGHT up your
> alley!) The thread is filled with a lot of people who are suggesting Ruby,
> Python, even C++! Strikes me as verging on child abuse to subject a 14-yo
> to
> that, but who am I to say? :)
>
> Seriously, would love to see folks come out and letting the world know
> about
> our product, it would be a great way to promote the language we all love.
>
> "Judy Perry" <katheryn.swynford at gmail.com>
> > Subj: Slashdotter looking for kids' programming language
> >
> > http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/10/2257223
> >
> > Someone might want to suggest Rev...
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com  Thu Dec 11 13:08:32 2008
From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:08:32 -0800
Subject: Revolution on Amazon - Please Discuss, Tag and List
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c566fbf2c5b4@[192.168.1.105]>
References: <BB53361213DF46C7B00A20D45762215E@GATEWAY>
	<p06240801c566fbf2c5b4@[192.168.1.105]>
Message-ID: <EA4ECAF97F3443018B390B38D8913A08@GATEWAY>

> They got the description wrong on enterprise:
> 
> "You select one operating system for development, but can 
> deploy to all supported operating systems."
> 
> cut and paste has a downside.
> 
> 
> I see this all the time.

Thanks for catching that, Stephen. Ive submitted a request for a change -
but Im not sure how long it will take to update.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
Mirye Software Publishing
http://www.mirye.com

Mirye Community NING
http://miryesoftware.ning.com 




From shoreagent at gmail.com  Thu Dec 11 13:14:26 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:14:26 -0400
Subject: Field of Card of Stack
In-Reply-To: <10A4CF11-9C4F-4149-80AB-DC4038314608@wanadoo.fr>
References: <10A4CF11-9C4F-4149-80AB-DC4038314608@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812111014q33e8b29as712280d50b75eae9@mail.gmail.com>

What does it matter if you have two fields with the same name? I have dozens
of fields in every card called "label" so every one  of those fields has the
same name. Would this cause a problem?


From effendi at wanadoo.fr  Thu Dec 11 13:21:13 2008
From: effendi at wanadoo.fr (Francis Nugent Dixon)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:21:13 +0100
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking
	for	kids' programming language
Message-ID: <235102C8-B1A9-4BAA-BD3A-3D1F4095870E@wanadoo.fr>

Judy,

This time you have really got everybody scared.
I, for one (after 45 years of programming), will
NEVER show you my UGLY code examples, not in
Algol, 1401 Autocoder, Fortran, Cobol,
360 Assembler, RPG, PL/1, Basic, Hypertalk, etc.

And now with the terrific one-liners on this
forum, showing me how Revolution CAN be written,
you have even less chance.

I keep my lousy programming to myself.

But (sigh) it always worked :)

-Francis



From bobs at twft.com  Thu Dec 11 13:22:52 2008
From: bobs at twft.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:22:52 -0800
Subject: Slashdot: Dunnit!
In-Reply-To: <229906.38566.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <229906.38566.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <F026CBE2-2FD4-402A-9F4E-7A562020EF38@twft.com>

Huh??

Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM

On Dec 11, 2008, at 2:52 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> Dunnit!
>
> http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/10/2257223
>
> Come on Youall!
>
> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
>
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development  
> Life Cycle.
> ____________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Dec 11 13:21:21 2008
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:21:21 -0800
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <40764560796.20081211102121@ahsoftware.net>

Judy-

Thursday, December 11, 2008, 9:52:39 AM, you wrote:

> Does anyone have any ugly examples?

You can check out the Obfucated C Code Contest archives here:

http://www0.us.ioccc.org/main.html

My favorite of the bunch:

http://www0.us.ioccc.org/1990/westley.c

"The gloves are OFF this time, I detest you, snot\n\0sed GEEK!");

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From bobs at twft.com  Thu Dec 11 13:28:30 2008
From: bobs at twft.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:28:30 -0800
Subject: Field of Card of Stack
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812111014q33e8b29as712280d50b75eae9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <10A4CF11-9C4F-4149-80AB-DC4038314608@wanadoo.fr>
	<459b22a90812111014q33e8b29as712280d50b75eae9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <032468A4-B9D6-4BA6-B1E5-FACC8B8F0B56@twft.com>

Only if you wanted to refer to them by name in a script.

Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM

On Dec 11, 2008, at 10:14 AM, william humphrey wrote:

> What does it matter if you have two fields with the same name? I  
> have dozens
> of fields in every card called "label" so every one  of those fields  
> has the
> same name. Would this cause a problem?
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jimschaubeck at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 11 13:32:06 2008
From: jimschaubeck at yahoo.com (Jim Schaubeck)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:32:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Spell check in a text field (how do I)
Message-ID: <42948.61977.qm@web111113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

What are some of the ways I can write a stack which has spellchecking
for the users in the text fields?  I have Rev 3.0 Studio (XP) and will
deploy on windows.  Thanks folks!
Jim...

From shoreagent at gmail.com  Thu Dec 11 13:47:05 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:47:05 -0400
Subject: Field of Card of Stack
In-Reply-To: <032468A4-B9D6-4BA6-B1E5-FACC8B8F0B56@twft.com>
References: <10A4CF11-9C4F-4149-80AB-DC4038314608@wanadoo.fr>
	<459b22a90812111014q33e8b29as712280d50b75eae9@mail.gmail.com>
	<032468A4-B9D6-4BA6-B1E5-FACC8B8F0B56@twft.com>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812111047n64133e8dvdfd4399e052155dc@mail.gmail.com>

Good. I use the "label" name so that I know that's a field I can ignore. I
use Acrobat prof for other work and in that program if a field has the same
name it will also always contain the same data as any other field with that
name. I know RunRev doesn't do this but...

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:28 PM, Bob Sneidar <bobs at twft.com> wrote:

> Only if you wanted to refer to them by name in a script.
>
> Bob Sneidar
> IT Manager
> Logos Management
> Calvary Chapel CM
>
>
> On Dec 11, 2008, at 10:14 AM, william humphrey wrote:
>
>  What does it matter if you have two fields with the same name? I have
>> dozens
>> of fields in every card called "label" so every one  of those fields has
>> the
>> same name. Would this cause a problem?
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.bluewatermaritime.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Dec 11 13:49:02 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:49:02 -0600
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
 kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4941609E.7050103@hyperactivesw.com>

Judy Perry wrote:
> I again come hat-in-hand to ask for some really ugly-looking code examples
> in those "real world" programming languages to compare with Rev for the
> Slashdot thread.
> Posters there are actually recommending things like Assembly(!), Java, & C#!
> <shudders>
> 
> Specifically the OP was looking to teach basics such as conditionals,
> variables & loops.
> 
> Does anyone have any ugly examples?

There are several in my "Do anything with text" stack from RevLive 2008 
(on card 2), comparing Rev to Javascript. Here are two:

====
display a phone number and hilite each character in sequence
======
JavaScript (57 lines)

<HEAD>
<script type="text/javascript">
<!-- Begin
var bgcolour="#ffffff"; // background colour
var hlcolour="#bfceff"; // highlight colour
var speed=250; // speed colours change, 1 second = 1000

// DON'T EDIT BELOW THIS LINE *
var w3c=document.getElementById;
var ie45=document.all;
var p_txt, p_cnt=0;
window.onload=function() {
   if (w3c||ie45) {
     var 
phone=(w3c)?document.getElementById("phonein"):document.all["phonein"];
     p_txt=(w3c)?phone.firstChild.nodeValue:phone.innerHTML;
     if (ie45) {
       var phoni="";
       for (var i=0; i<p_txt.length; i++) phoni+='<sp'+'an 
id="phon'+i+'">'+p_txt.charAt(i)+'</'+'span>';
       phone.innerHTML=phoni;
     } else {
       while (phone.childNodes.length) 
phone.removeChild(phone.childNodes[0]);
       for (var i=0; i<p_txt.length; i++) {
         var phoni=document.createElement("span");
         phoni.setAttribute("id", "phon"+i);
         phoni.appendChild(document.createTextNode(p_txt.charAt(i)));
         phone.appendChild(phoni);
       }
     }
     p_cnt=p_txt.length-1;
     phone=setInterval ("phon1()", speed);
   }
}
function phon1() {
   var p_ct=p_cnt%p_txt.length;
   var 
p_tmp=(w3c)?document.getElementById("phon"+p_ct):document.all["phon"+p_ct];
   p_tmp.style.backgroundColor=bgcolour;
   p_tmp.style.fontWeight="normal";
   p_ct=++p_cnt%p_txt.length;
 
p_tmp=(w3c)?document.getElementById("phon"+p_ct):document.all["phon"+p_ct];
   p_tmp.style.fontWeight="bold";
   if (((w3c)?p_tmp.firstChild.nodeValue:p_tmp.innerHTML)!=" ") 
p_tmp.style.backgroundColor=hlcolour;
}
//  End -->
</script>
</HEAD>

<!-- STEP TWO: Copy this code into the BODY of your HTML document  -->

<BODY>

<span id="phonein">555-123-4567</span>

<p><center>
<font face="arial, helvetica" size"-2">Free JavaScripts provided<br>
by <a href="http://javascriptsource.com">The JavaScript Source</a></font>
</center><p>

In Rev (16 lines, but it could be trimmed to less):

on mouseUp
   create fld "ascii"
   set the autohilite of fld "ascii" to true
   set the traversalOn of fld "ascii" to true
   set the showFocusBorder of fld "ascii" to false
   set the topleft of fld "ascii" to  350,450
   put "612-724-1596" into fld "ascii"
   put the seconds into tStart
   repeat until the seconds - tStart > 5 or the shiftkey is down
     repeat with x = 1 to the number of chars in fld "ascii"
       select char x of fld "ascii"
       wait 200 milliseconds
     end repeat
   end repeat
   delete fld "ascii"
end mouseUp

==========
show a field and select each line in turn; display its contents (this 
was called "Advanced Gallery" on the web page)
===========

Javascript (149 lines):

<HEAD>

<style type="text/css">
.gallerycontroller{
width: 250px
}

.gallerycontent{
width: 250px;
height: 200px;
border: 1px solid black;
background-color: #DFDFFF;
padding: 3px;
display: block;
}

</style>

<script type="text/javascript">

var tickspeed=3000 //ticker speed in miliseconds (2000=2 seconds)
var displaymode="auto" //displaymode ("auto" or "manual"). No need to 
modify as form at the bottom will control it, unless you wish to remove 
form.

if (document.getElementById){
document.write('<style type="text/css">\n')
document.write('.gallerycontent{display:none;}\n')
document.write('</style>\n')
}

var selectedDiv=0
var totalDivs=0

function getElementbyClass(classname){
partscollect=new Array()
var inc=0
var alltags=document.all? document.all.tags("DIV") : 
document.getElementsByTagName("*")
for (i=0; i<alltags.length; i++){
if (alltags[i].className==classname)
partscollect[inc++]=alltags[i]
}
}

function contractall(){
var inc=0
while (partscollect[inc]){
partscollect[inc].style.display="none"
inc++
}
}

function expandone(){
var selectedDivObj=partscollect[selectedDiv]
contractall()
selectedDivObj.style.display="block"
temp.options[selectedDiv].selected=true
selectedDiv=(selectedDiv<totalDivs-1)? selectedDiv+1 : 0
if (displaymode=="auto")
autocontrolvar=setTimeout("expandone()",tickspeed)
}

function populatemenu(){
temp=document.gallerycontrol.menu
for (m=temp.options.length-1;m>0;m--)
temp.options[m]=null
for (i=0;i<totalDivs;i++){
var thesubject=partscollect[i].getAttribute("subject")
thesubject=(thesubject=="" || thesubject==null)? "HTML Content "+(i+1) : 
thesubject
temp.options[i]=new Option(thesubject,"")
}

temp.options[0].selected=true
}

function manualcontrol(menuobj){
if (displaymode=="manual"){
selectedDiv=menuobj
expandone()
}
}

function preparemode(themode){
displaymode=themode
if (typeof autocontrolvar!="undefined")
clearTimeout(autocontrolvar)
if (themode=="auto"){
document.gallerycontrol.menu.disabled=true
autocontrolvar=setTimeout("expandone()",tickspeed)
}
else
document.gallerycontrol.menu.disabled=false
}

function startgallery(){
document.getElementById("controldiv").style.display="block"
getElementbyClass("gallerycontent")
totalDivs=partscollect.length
populatemenu()
for (i=0; i<document.gallerycontrol.mode.length; i++){
if (document.gallerycontrol.mode[i].checked)
displaymode=document.gallerycontrol.mode[i].value
}

if (displaymode=="auto")
document.gallerycontrol.menu.disabled=true
expandone()
}

if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", startgallery, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", startgallery)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.onload=startgallery

</script>

</HEAD>

<!-- STEP TWO: Copy this code into the BODY of your HTML document  -->

<BODY>

<div class="gallerycontent" subject="What is JavaScript?">
JavaScript is a scripting language originally developed by Netscape to 
add interactivity and power to web documents. It is purely client side, 
and runs completely on the client's browser and computer.
</div>

<div class="gallerycontent" subject="Java & JavaScript Differences">
Java is completely different from JavaScript- it's more powerful, more 
complex, and unfortunately, a lot harder to master. It belongs in the 
same league as C, C++, and other more complex languages.
</div>

<div class="gallerycontent" subject="What is DHTML?">
DHTML is the embodiment of a combination of technologies- JavaScript, 
CSS, and HTML. Through them a new level of interactivity is possible for 
the end user experience.
</div>

<div id="controldiv" style="display:none" class="gallerycontroller">
<form name="gallerycontrol">
         <select class="gallerycontroller" size="3" name="menu" 
onChange="manualcontrol(this.options.selectedIndex)">
         <option>Blank form</option>
         </select><br>
Auto: <input type="radio" checked name="mode" value="auto" 
onClick="preparemode('auto')"> Manual: <input type="radio" name="mode" 
value="manual" onClick="preparemode('manual')">
</form>

</div>

<p><center>
<font face="arial, helvetica" size"-2">Free JavaScripts provided<br>
by <a href="http://javascriptsource.com">The JavaScript Source</a></font>
</center><p>

Rev (36 lines):

local sStart
local sCount = 0

on mouseUp
   create fld "ascii"
   set the dontwrap of fld "ascii" to false
   set the rect of fld "ascii" to the rect of fld "example"
   create fld "list"
   set the width of fld "list" to 200
   set the height of fld "list" to 350
   set the topleft of fld "list" to the topleft of fld "bullets"
   set the listbehavior of fld "list" to true
   put "What is Revolution?" &cr& "Ease of Use" &cr& "Concise Coding" 
into fld "list"
   put the seconds into sStart
   send "doLoop" to me in 1
end mouseUp

on doLoop
   if the seconds - sStart > 20 or the shiftkey is down then
     delete fld "ascii"
     delete fld "list"
   else
     get nextline(sCount)
     set the hilitedline of fld "list" to lineoffset(item 1 of it,fld 
"list")
     put item 2 of it into line 3 of fld "ascii"
     put (sCount+1) wrap 3 into sCount
     send "doLoop" to me in 2 seconds
   end if
end doLoop

function nextline pCount
   get "What is Revolution?" &comma& "Revolution is a scripting language 
that adds interactivity and power to stacks." & \
       cr & "Ease of Use" &comma& "No other language has the simplicity 
and power contained in Revolution, and no other language is as easy to 
learn." & \
       cr & "Concise Coding" &comma& "What would take dozens or hundreds 
of lines in other languages can often be done in a handful of lines of 
Revolution script."
   return line pCount of it
end nextline

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Dec 11 13:56:00 2008
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:56:00 -0800
Subject: Show globals
In-Reply-To: <D3FC9D3A-3052-4628-B92C-9F340604D885@twft.com>
References: <4940466B.3080904@fourthworld.com>
	<D3FC9D3A-3052-4628-B92C-9F340604D885@twft.com>
Message-ID: <B0000605685@titan.pon.net>

Bob, et al:

>I would only use
>script local variables for temporary variables that only need to live
>while the script runs

The Rev Dictionary says:

"The difference between a script local variable and a global variable 
is that a script local variable can only be used in the handlers of 
one script, while a global variable can be used in any handler or 
script with a global declaration for that variable.
.
[snip]

The value of a script local variable is retained between handlers, 
but is lost when you quit the application, when you close the stack 
(unless its destroyStack property is false), or when the script is 
re-compiled."

So script local variables have value persistence so long as the stack 
or app remains open.

And script local variables cannot be accidentally or purposely read 
or changed by scripts in other stacks or other objects.

Having said the latter, I would note that any script local variable 
can be accessed by handlers in other scripts or stacks, if the script 
declaring the local variable includes a getValue function and a 
setValue command for that variable.  Eg:

local mySharedVariable

function getValue
    return mySharedVariable
end getValue

on setValue newValue
    put newValue into mySharedVariable
end setValue


Rob Cozens, CCW
Serendipity Software Company

Vive R Revolution! 

From noelf at nomigraphics.com  Thu Dec 11 14:42:26 2008
From: noelf at nomigraphics.com (Noel)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:42:26 -0700
Subject: Revolution on Amazon - Please Discuss, Tag and List
In-Reply-To: <BB53361213DF46C7B00A20D45762215E@GATEWAY>
References: <BB53361213DF46C7B00A20D45762215E@GATEWAY>
Message-ID: <0MKpCa-1LArQb3RqJ-0001Mu@mrelay.perfora.net>

Left my review :)

  - Noel

At 09:01 AM 12/11/2008, you wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>We've gotten Rev up on Amazon. Amazon now features customer custom tags,
>reviews and discussion groups (you already know there's a referal program
>too, right?). Programming products don't get a lot of attention on Amazon so
>far, but there's a growing list of discussions and invariably they are about
>mainstream languages like C++.
>
>http://www.amazon.com/Runtime-Revolution-Studio/dp/B001K42BW0/
>http://www.amazon.com/Runtime-Revolution-Enterprise/dp/B001K53I12/
>
>Even if you've already purchased Revolution for yourself, tagging, listing,
>discussing etc, these things all increase awareness of Revolution. Amazon
>has also launched a sort of wiki system too, called Amapedia.com. You can
>also participate in the Amazon associates program too and collect some
>percentage of the sale.
>
>Raising awareness of Rev on Amazon helps build awareness of Rev in general -
>your involvement would really help out.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Lynn Fredricks
>Mirye Software Publishing
>http://www.mirye.com
>
>Mirye Community NING
>http://miryesoftware.ning.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From geradamas at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 11 14:47:49 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:47:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Slashdot: Dunnit!
Message-ID: <280706.91362.qm@web37508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Bob Sneidar wrote:

"Huh?"

to which I really ought to reply: "Coz, geddit?"

But the following may be more constructive:

'Dunnit' = I have done it.

In this context meaning that I have posted a message advocating the
use of Runtime Revolution of the aforementioned Slashdot web-site.

Garn!

Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 11 14:55:45 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:55:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: "I know RunRev doesn't do this but..."
Message-ID: <394402.10043.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

What does that mean?

Probably, that users of Runtime Revolution do not, generally, do 'this'.

However, Runtime Revolution is a sufficiently flexible RAD that one can
do an awful lot of alternative 'thises' in a way which one cannot in
many other programming environment.

I, for one, do an awful lot of 'thises' in RunRev which I have come up 
with myself, and, maybe, a lot of "purists" might object to: but I 
don't feel a desperate need for their approval.

Or, to put things another way: Runtime Revolution is not only the
RAD developed and marketed by "that company in Scotland"; it is the
interaction between that and its programmers and end-users - rather in
the same way as reading a book the first time can be awful, and the second time great; because of the frame of mind the reader is in at the time of reading.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From DunbarX at aol.com  Thu Dec 11 15:13:39 2008
From: DunbarX at aol.com (DunbarX at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:13:39 EST
Subject: Field of Card of Stack
Message-ID: <d6b.3e6f6127.3672ce73@aol.com>

It would not cause anything to break, but if you tried to put text into fld 
"label", it would always go into the field with the lowest number.

(At least in HC, it does. Am I being presumptuous?)


In a message dated 12/11/08 1:14:35 PM, shoreagent at gmail.com writes:


> What does it matter if you have two fields with the same name? I have 
> dozens
> of fields in every card called "label" so every one? of those fields has the
> same name. Would this cause a problem?
> 




**************
Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and 
favorite sites in one place.  Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&amp;
icid=aolcom40vanity&amp;ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)


From DunbarX at aol.com  Thu Dec 11 15:14:23 2008
From: DunbarX at aol.com (DunbarX at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:14:23 EST
Subject: Revolution on Amazon - Please Discuss, Tag and List
Message-ID: <c90.357e52b5.3672ce9f@aol.com>


In a message dated 12/11/08 2:42:50 PM, noelf at nomigraphics.com writes:


> Left my review :)
> 

Me, too. I am liking rev more and more...


**************
Make your life easier 
with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place.  Try it now. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&amp;icid=aolcom40vanity&amp;ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)


From DunbarX at aol.com  Thu Dec 11 15:27:08 2008
From: DunbarX at aol.com (DunbarX at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:27:08 EST
Subject: Spell check in a text field (how do I)
Message-ID: <d4f.42c16c6c.3672d19c@aol.com>

I wrote a spell checker once in HC. I kept a dictionary (265,000 words) in a 
separate file. I loaded that file into memory and did a search for each word 
in my text. If a word found no match in the dictionary, I was notified. My 
program suggested nearby possible words based on slight misspellings.

In Rev, you could keep the dictionary in a field (not having the textEdit 
limits, which is very nce), or in a library somewhere.

Craig Newman


**************
Make your life easier with all your friends, email, 
and favorite sites in one place.  Try it now. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&amp;icid=aolcom40vanity&amp;ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Thu Dec 11 17:00:06 2008
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:00:06 -0700
Subject: Field of Card of Stack
In-Reply-To: <d6b.3e6f6127.3672ce73@aol.com>
References: <d6b.3e6f6127.3672ce73@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CC1C326D-3928-4EC7-BD21-FFAEE0956BB6@byu.edu>


On Dec 11, 2008, at 1:13 PM, DunbarX at aol.com wrote:

> It would not cause anything to break, but if you tried to put text  
> into fld
> "label", it would always go into the field with the lowest number.
>
> (At least in HC, it does. Am I being presumptuous?)

That's how Rev works, too.

D
>
>
>
> In a message dated 12/11/08 1:14:35 PM, shoreagent at gmail.com writes:
>
>
>> What does it matter if you have two fields with the same name? I have
>> dozens
>> of fields in every card called "label" so every one  of those  
>> fields has the
>> same name. Would this cause a problem?
>>
>
>
>
>
> **************
> Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and
> favorite sites in one place.  Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&amp 
> ;
> icid=aolcom40vanity&amp;ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University



From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 11 17:15:36 2008
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides, MD)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:15:36 -0600
Subject: Revolution on Amazon - Please Discuss, Tag and List
In-Reply-To: <49414896.4010208@fourthworld.com>
References: <49414896.4010208@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <63955881-A823-4084-9424-47351E8DBE4E@earthlink.net>

Ok, I added mine (under my nickname Woody).  How about it guys and  
gals, where's YOUR review?

For the folks from RunRev, FWIW, please note that when I tried to find  
the product using the search term "Revolution," I got a whole bunch of  
other hits but didn't find Rev, at least not on the first few screens- 
worth of hits.  Methinks this could be an impediment for people who've  
heard of Rev in passing and come to Amazon looking for more information.

M




On Dec 11, 2008, at 11:06 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Lynn Fredricks wrote:
>
>> We've gotten Rev up on Amazon. Amazon now features customer custom  
>> tags,
>> reviews and discussion groups (you already know there's a referal  
>> program
>> too, right?). Programming products don't get a lot of attention on  
>> Amazon so
>> far, but there's a growing list of discussions and invariably they  
>> are about
>> mainstream languages like C++.
>> http://www.amazon.com/Runtime-Revolution-Studio/dp/B001K42BW0/
>> http://www.amazon.com/Runtime-Revolution-Enterprise/dp/B001K53I12/
>
> Well done.
>
> With the product listed there under its actual name, I did not  
> hesitate to add my comments.  I agree that it's helpful for all of  
> us for others to do the same.
>
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Thu Dec 11 19:48:38 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:48:38 -0800
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <235102C8-B1A9-4BAA-BD3A-3D1F4095870E@wanadoo.fr>
References: <235102C8-B1A9-4BAA-BD3A-3D1F4095870E@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <4be051070812111648u1b46f16ay6164800b0428c37a@mail.gmail.com>

Francis,
No!  I'm not looking to embarass anyone here!  I just want to show people
that you can do things easier -- and certainly easier for a child -- in Rev
than in all those other languages being suggested.

And, of course, you should see MY lousy code ;-)

Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:21 AM, Francis Nugent Dixon
<effendi at wanadoo.fr>wrote:

> Judy,
>
> This time you have really got everybody scared.
> I, for one (after 45 years of programming), will
> NEVER show you my UGLY code examples, not in
> Algol, 1401 Autocoder, Fortran, Cobol,
> 360 Assembler, RPG, PL/1, Basic, Hypertalk, etc.
>
> And now with the terrific one-liners on this
> forum, showing me how Revolution CAN be written,
> you have even less chance.
>
> I keep my lousy programming to myself.
>
> But (sigh) it always worked :)
>
> -Francis
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Thu Dec 11 20:26:36 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:26:36 -0800
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <40764560796.20081211102121@ahsoftware.net>
References: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<40764560796.20081211102121@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <4be051070812111726t703d405cw40fd55f482d9ad3d@mail.gmail.com>

Mark,
Thanks; I am still laughing at your favorite ;-)

Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:21 AM, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net>wrote:

> Judy-
>
> Thursday, December 11, 2008, 9:52:39 AM, you wrote:
>
> > Does anyone have any ugly examples?
>
> You can check out the Obfucated C Code Contest archives here:
>
> http://www0.us.ioccc.org/main.html
>
> My favorite of the bunch:
>
> http://www0.us.ioccc.org/1990/westley.c
>
> "The gloves are OFF this time, I detest you, snot\n\0sed GEEK!");
>
> --
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From wjm at wjm.org  Thu Dec 11 20:42:03 2008
From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:42:03 -0500
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking
	forkids' programming language
References: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ghsfhc$cif$1@ger.gmane.org>

A few weeks ago, I came across a blog by someone who actually ran a contest 
for *readable* code. The assignment was to write an algorithm for producing 
anagrams. My response, and links to the original contest (where you can see 
some truly hideous examples) can be found at http://revuser.com/readable.htm


"Judy Perry" <katheryn.swynford at gmail.com> 
wrote in message 
news:4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7 at mail.gmail.com...
>I again come hat-in-hand to ask for some really ugly-looking code examples
> in those "real world" programming languages to compare with Rev for the
> Slashdot thread.
> Posters there are actually recommending things like Assembly(!), Java, & 
> C#!
> <shudders>
>
> Specifically the OP was looking to teach basics such as conditionals,
> variables & loops.
>
> Does anyone have any ugly examples?





From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Thu Dec 11 20:47:29 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 02:47:29 +0100
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1FB3394E-663D-405D-A07C-AB7889576EC6@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi Judy,

A few very simple examples. Revolution is clearly much more readable  
and easier to work with for starting programmers than other languages.

# revolution
on foo
   repeat with x = 32 to 255
     put x & "         " & numToChar(x) & cr after msg
   end repeat
end foo

This one is hardly readable if you're not used to reading programing  
code:

# php
<?php
for ($chrNr=32;$chrNr < 255;$chrNr++)
{
	echo $chrNr."        ".chr($chrNr)."\n";
}
?>

Just for fun, here's the AppleScript version. Quite similar to  
Revolution, but much more picky.

-- applescript
on foo()
	set myList to ""
	repeat with x from 32 to 255
		set myList to myList & x & "      " & (ASCII character x) & return
	end repeat
	return myList
end foo

Btw, if you want ugly code, this one should not be omitted...

0 REM BASIC
10 LET x = 31
20 LET X = X + 1
30 PRINT x,"        ",CHR$(x)
40 IF x < 255 GOTO 20
50 END

I've tested all the examples above. They all work.

Of course, there is a large collection of programming languages  
already and people can easily pick the one that looks easy at <http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-runtime-revolution-499.html 
 >.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to  
discuss your custom software project!

On 11 dec 2008, at 18:52, Judy Perry wrote:

> I again come hat-in-hand to ask for some really ugly-looking code  
> examples
> in those "real world" programming languages to compare with Rev for  
> the
> Slashdot thread.
> Posters there are actually recommending things like Assembly(!),  
> Java, & C#!
> <shudders>
>
> Specifically the OP was looking to teach basics such as conditionals,
> variables & loops.
>
> Does anyone have any ugly examples?
>
> Judy
> http://revined.blogspot.com
>



From briany at qldlearning.com  Thu Dec 11 22:41:56 2008
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:41:56 -0800
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <1FB3394E-663D-405D-A07C-AB7889576EC6@economy-x-talk.com>
References: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<1FB3394E-663D-405D-A07C-AB7889576EC6@economy-x-talk.com>
Message-ID: <A60BCCC4-5FE7-483B-B357-29646112E681@qldlearning.com>

If you want ugly code in Rev, the key is to do things in a horrible,  
obtuse and irrational fashion. Smoke and mirrors, my friends!
(nope, haven't tested this but it looks right to me =))

on foo
  put item -5 of "fox,cat,dog,horse" into t
  put 0*pi*100 into x
  repeat while (x < (256 - charToNum(space)))
      put empty into l
      put numToChar(x+32) after l
      put numToChar(32) before l
      put (x+32) before l
      put l into line (x+1) of t
      put x + 1 into x
  end repeat
  replace space with "   "&space&space&space&"   " in t
  sort lines of t numeric by word 1 of each
  put line 1 to -1 of (t&cr)
end foo

> Hi Judy,
>
> A few very simple examples. Revolution is clearly much more readable  
> and easier to work with for starting programmers than other languages.
>
> # revolution
> on foo
> repeat with x = 32 to 255
>   put x & "         " & numToChar(x) & cr after msg
> end repeat
> end foo
>
> This one is hardly readable if you're not used to reading programing  
> code:
>
> # php
> <?php
> for ($chrNr=32;$chrNr < 255;$chrNr++)
> {
> 	echo $chrNr."        ".chr($chrNr)."\n";
> }
> ?>
>
> Just for fun, here's the AppleScript version. Quite similar to  
> Revolution, but much more picky.
>
> -- applescript
> on foo()
> 	set myList to ""
> 	repeat with x from 32 to 255
> 		set myList to myList & x & "      " & (ASCII character x) & return
> 	end repeat
> 	return myList
> end foo
>
> Btw, if you want ugly code, this one should not be omitted...
>
> 0 REM BASIC
> 10 LET x = 31
> 20 LET X = X + 1
> 30 PRINT x,"        ",CHR$(x)
> 40 IF x < 255 GOTO 20
> 50 END


From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Thu Dec 11 22:44:23 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:44:23 -0800
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <A60BCCC4-5FE7-483B-B357-29646112E681@qldlearning.com>
References: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<1FB3394E-663D-405D-A07C-AB7889576EC6@economy-x-talk.com>
	<A60BCCC4-5FE7-483B-B357-29646112E681@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <4be051070812111944u58cbdf4etb13654146f2447c4@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, heavens, NO!
I want ugly code in OTHER languages... legitimate, legitimately ugly code in
other languages.

If I wanted ugly code in Rev, I could simply use my own!

:-/

Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 7:41 PM, Brian Yennie <briany at qldlearning.com>wrote:

> If you want ugly code in Rev, the key is to do things in a horrible, obtuse
> and irrational fashion. Smoke and mirrors, my friends!
> (nope, haven't tested this but it looks right to me =))
>
> on foo
>  put item -5 of "fox,cat,dog,horse" into t
>  put 0*pi*100 into x
>  repeat while (x < (256 - charToNum(space)))
>     put empty into l
>     put numToChar(x+32) after l
>     put numToChar(32) before l
>     put (x+32) before l
>     put l into line (x+1) of t
>     put x + 1 into x
>  end repeat
>  replace space with "   "&space&space&space&"   " in t
>  sort lines of t numeric by word 1 of each
>  put line 1 to -1 of (t&cr)
> end foo
>
>
>  Hi Judy,
>>
>> A few very simple examples. Revolution is clearly much more readable and
>> easier to work with for starting programmers than other languages.
>>
>> # revolution
>> on foo
>> repeat with x = 32 to 255
>>  put x & "         " & numToChar(x) & cr after msg
>> end repeat
>> end foo
>>
>> This one is hardly readable if you're not used to reading programing code:
>>
>> # php
>> <?php
>> for ($chrNr=32;$chrNr < 255;$chrNr++)
>> {
>>        echo $chrNr."        ".chr($chrNr)."\n";
>> }
>> ?>
>>
>> Just for fun, here's the AppleScript version. Quite similar to Revolution,
>> but much more picky.
>>
>> -- applescript
>> on foo()
>>        set myList to ""
>>        repeat with x from 32 to 255
>>                set myList to myList & x & "      " & (ASCII character x) &
>> return
>>        end repeat
>>        return myList
>> end foo
>>
>> Btw, if you want ugly code, this one should not be omitted...
>>
>> 0 REM BASIC
>> 10 LET x = 31
>> 20 LET X = X + 1
>> 30 PRINT x,"        ",CHR$(x)
>> 40 IF x < 255 GOTO 20
>> 50 END
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Dec 11 23:07:35 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:07:35 -0600
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
 kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <A60BCCC4-5FE7-483B-B357-29646112E681@qldlearning.com>
References: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>	<1FB3394E-663D-405D-A07C-AB7889576EC6@economy-x-talk.com>
	<A60BCCC4-5FE7-483B-B357-29646112E681@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <4941E387.4080706@hyperactivesw.com>

Brian Yennie wrote:
> If you want ugly code in Rev, the key is to do things in a horrible, 
> obtuse and irrational fashion. Smoke and mirrors, my friends!
> (nope, haven't tested this but it looks right to me =))
> 
> on foo
>  put item -5 of "fox,cat,dog,horse" into t
>  put 0*pi*100 into x
>  repeat while (x < (256 - charToNum(space)))
>      put empty into l
>      put numToChar(x+32) after l
>      put numToChar(32) before l
>      put (x+32) before l
>      put l into line (x+1) of t
>      put x + 1 into x
>  end repeat
>  replace space with "   "&space&space&space&"   " in t
>  sort lines of t numeric by word 1 of each
>  put line 1 to -1 of (t&cr)
> end foo

You should omit the line: put x + 1 into x

Then wait to see what happens.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Fri Dec 12 00:10:39 2008
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (Scott Morrow)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:10:39 -0800
Subject: Spell check in a text field (how do I)
In-Reply-To: <42948.61977.qm@web111113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <42948.61977.qm@web111113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5A4ECB36-9C85-4FA3-846E-C42AFA1D75C7@elementarysoftware.com>

Hello Jim,

I'm no expert on spell checking but when I needed a cross-platform  
spell checker written in rev I broke the problem into 3 parts.
1.  A  UI for interacting with the spell checker
2.  A word checker that walks through the given text, word at a time,  
checking to see if they are in the bank of "real" words
3.  Suggested words... presented in the UI to allow quick correction/ 
selection of the intended word.  I found this last part to be by far  
the most challenging as things get "messy" when dealing with phonics.   
I ended up using a variation of Lawrence Philips' Double Metaphone  
algorithm.  The idea is to reduce the misspelled word to a short  
phonetic representation or key.  Previously you would also have  
reduced a subset of the "real" words in your bank to their short  
phonetic keys as well.  You might create a custom property for each  
unique phonetic key and store all the "real" words that reduce to this  
key as a list inside that custom property.  Then you could take the  
misspelled word's key and see if there was a custom property name that  
matched.  The hope then is that inside that custom property would be  
phonetically reasonable suggestions which could be presented to the  
user.

Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       http://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com


On Dec 11, 2008, at 10:32 AM, Jim Schaubeck wrote:

> What are some of the ways I can write a stack which has spellchecking
> for the users in the text fields?  I have Rev 3.0 Studio (XP) and will
> deploy on windows.  Thanks folks!
> Jim...
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution






From dave.cragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Fri Dec 12 06:52:36 2008
From: dave.cragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:52:36 +0000
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <4be051070812111648u1b46f16ay6164800b0428c37a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <235102C8-B1A9-4BAA-BD3A-3D1F4095870E@wanadoo.fr>
	<4be051070812111648u1b46f16ay6164800b0428c37a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8C28D0A1-B3B4-4634-95FC-ADC509DC8CF6@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 12 Dec 2008, at 00:48, Judy Perry wrote:

> I just want to show people
> that you can do things easier -- and certainly easier for a child --  
> in Rev
> than in all those other languages being suggested.

I'll play Devil's Advocate.

There seems to be some assumptions about what is easier for a child.  
One of these assumptions is that a "simple English-like syntax" is  
simpler than other kinds of syntax. I wonder if that is not an adult  
prejudice.

Compare these two ways of representing properties:

the text of me
me.text

I'd argue that the second is more visually representative of what we  
are trying to express. The dot becomes a "joining symbol" which is  
more easily remembered than the strange syntax of space + of + space.  
And what on earth is "the" all about?

Perhaps I'm saying that Rev is a great language for old people to take  
up. :-)

Cheers
Dave




From pepetoo at cox.net  Fri Dec 12 07:08:56 2008
From: pepetoo at cox.net (Joe Lewis Wilkins)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 04:08:56 -0800
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <8C28D0A1-B3B4-4634-95FC-ADC509DC8CF6@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <235102C8-B1A9-4BAA-BD3A-3D1F4095870E@wanadoo.fr>
	<4be051070812111648u1b46f16ay6164800b0428c37a@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C28D0A1-B3B4-4634-95FC-ADC509DC8CF6@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <598242C0-0E35-412E-853D-C1ADC5A35873@cox.net>

Se?or diablo,

The child in me agrees; and I was always better at math than reading.

Joe Wilkins

On Dec 12, 2008, at 3:52 AM, Dave Cragg wrote:

>
> On 12 Dec 2008, at 00:48, Judy Perry wrote:
>
>> I just want to show people
>> that you can do things easier -- and certainly easier for a child  
>> -- in Rev
>> than in all those other languages being suggested.
>
> I'll play Devil's Advocate.
>
> There seems to be some assumptions about what is easier for a child.  
> One of these assumptions is that a "simple English-like syntax" is  
> simpler than other kinds of syntax. I wonder if that is not an adult  
> prejudice.
>
> Compare these two ways of representing properties:
>
> the text of me
> me.text
>
> I'd argue that the second is more visually representative of what we  
> are trying to express. The dot becomes a "joining symbol" which is  
> more easily remembered than the strange syntax of space + of +  
> space. And what on earth is "the" all about?
>
> Perhaps I'm saying that Rev is a great language for old people to  
> take up. :-)
>
> Cheers
> Dave









From phil at liverpool.ac.uk  Fri Dec 12 07:11:50 2008
From: phil at liverpool.ac.uk (Phil Jimmieson)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:11:50 +0000
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <598242C0-0E35-412E-853D-C1ADC5A35873@cox.net>
References: <235102C8-B1A9-4BAA-BD3A-3D1F4095870E@wanadoo.fr>
	<4be051070812111648u1b46f16ay6164800b0428c37a@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C28D0A1-B3B4-4634-95FC-ADC509DC8CF6@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<598242C0-0E35-412E-853D-C1ADC5A35873@cox.net>
Message-ID: <1D1D3390-438D-4170-AACC-4CC1E8D23204@liverpool.ac.uk>

Maybe we need a synonym for "the ... of me" - how about something like  
"my"?

put my text into xx
set my hilite to true

etc.

On 12 Dec 2008, at 12:08, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:

> Se?or diablo,
>
> The child in me agrees; and I was always better at math than reading.
>
> Joe Wilkins
>
> On Dec 12, 2008, at 3:52 AM, Dave Cragg wrote:
>
>>
>> On 12 Dec 2008, at 00:48, Judy Perry wrote:
>>
>>> I just want to show people
>>> that you can do things easier -- and certainly easier for a child  
>>> -- in Rev
>>> than in all those other languages being suggested.
>>
>> I'll play Devil's Advocate.
>>
>> There seems to be some assumptions about what is easier for a  
>> child. One of these assumptions is that a "simple English-like  
>> syntax" is simpler than other kinds of syntax. I wonder if that is  
>> not an adult prejudice.
>>
>> Compare these two ways of representing properties:
>>
>> the text of me
>> me.text
>>
>> I'd argue that the second is more visually representative of what  
>> we are trying to express. The dot becomes a "joining symbol" which  
>> is more easily remembered than the strange syntax of space + of +  
>> space. And what on earth is "the" all about?
>>
>> Perhaps I'm saying that Rev is a great language for old people to  
>> take up. :-)
>>
>> Cheers
>> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

--
Phil Jimmieson  phil at liverpool.ac.uk  (UK) 0151 795 4236
Computer Science Dept., Liverpool University, Ashton Building, Ashton  
Street
Liverpool L69 3BX              http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~phil/
I used to sit on a special medical board... ...but now I use this  
ointment.






From luis at anachreon.co.uk  Fri Dec 12 07:19:53 2008
From: luis at anachreon.co.uk (Luis)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:19:53 +0000
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <1D1D3390-438D-4170-AACC-4CC1E8D23204@liverpool.ac.uk>
References: <235102C8-B1A9-4BAA-BD3A-3D1F4095870E@wanadoo.fr>
	<4be051070812111648u1b46f16ay6164800b0428c37a@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C28D0A1-B3B4-4634-95FC-ADC509DC8CF6@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<598242C0-0E35-412E-853D-C1ADC5A35873@cox.net>
	<1D1D3390-438D-4170-AACC-4CC1E8D23204@liverpool.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <ADC1E451-1ACF-40F0-9FF2-AB672CCA726F@anachreon.co.uk>

It all needs a little context to set it off. Do you explain that the  
'.' is a joining thing?
What 'text'? Letters? A page?

The 'value/meaning' of all words are context driven, so either start  
with an assumption or create one.

text->me

Cheers,

Luis.


On 12 Dec 2008, at 12:11, Phil Jimmieson wrote:

> Maybe we need a synonym for "the ... of me" - how about something  
> like "my"?
>
> put my text into xx
> set my hilite to true
>
> etc.
>
> On 12 Dec 2008, at 12:08, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:
>
>> Se?or diablo,
>>
>> The child in me agrees; and I was always better at math than reading.
>>
>> Joe Wilkins
>>
>> On Dec 12, 2008, at 3:52 AM, Dave Cragg wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 12 Dec 2008, at 00:48, Judy Perry wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just want to show people
>>>> that you can do things easier -- and certainly easier for a  
>>>> child -- in Rev
>>>> than in all those other languages being suggested.
>>>
>>> I'll play Devil's Advocate.
>>>
>>> There seems to be some assumptions about what is easier for a  
>>> child. One of these assumptions is that a "simple English-like  
>>> syntax" is simpler than other kinds of syntax. I wonder if that  
>>> is not an adult prejudice.
>>>
>>> Compare these two ways of representing properties:
>>>
>>> the text of me
>>> me.text
>>>
>>> I'd argue that the second is more visually representative of what  
>>> we are trying to express. The dot becomes a "joining symbol"  
>>> which is more easily remembered than the strange syntax of space  
>>> + of + space. And what on earth is "the" all about?
>>>
>>> Perhaps I'm saying that Rev is a great language for old people to  
>>> take up. :-)
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> --
> Phil Jimmieson  phil at liverpool.ac.uk  (UK) 0151 795 4236
> Computer Science Dept., Liverpool University, Ashton Building,  
> Ashton Street
> Liverpool L69 3BX              http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~phil/
> I used to sit on a special medical board... ...but now I use this  
> ointment.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jacques.hausser at unil.ch  Fri Dec 12 08:36:05 2008
From: jacques.hausser at unil.ch (Jacques Hausser)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:36:05 +0100
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <8C28D0A1-B3B4-4634-95FC-ADC509DC8CF6@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <235102C8-B1A9-4BAA-BD3A-3D1F4095870E@wanadoo.fr>
	<4be051070812111648u1b46f16ay6164800b0428c37a@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C28D0A1-B3B4-4634-95FC-ADC509DC8CF6@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <0DF5FF61-6A1C-43F8-9434-66B6A694B919@unil.ch>


Le 12 d?c. 2008 ? 12:52, Dave Cragg a ?crit :
>
> Perhaps I'm saying that Rev is a great language for old people to  
> take up. :-)
>


Oh, yes indeed ! old people of any age ! from 7 to 77, like Tintin...  
(if you're old enough to remember Tintin and Snowy)

Jacques

From dave at looktowindward.com  Fri Dec 12 09:06:57 2008
From: dave at looktowindward.com (Dave)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:06:57 +0000
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85FF405D-F184-44CC-B7CD-ECAE5C776A28@looktowindward.com>

Hi,

It's easy to come up with ugly code in any language, the trick is to  
make beautiful code in *any* language. Out of the many programming  
languages I've used, I've come across lot of *very* ugly code, and  
ugly code is ugly code whatever language, however, ugly code in  
RunRev is far far uglier than in any other language I've used for a  
number of reasons.

It's seem like clutching at straws and verging on being deceitful to  
make RunRev look good by showing how bad other languages can be,  
while at the same time keeping quiet about how ugly RunRev code can be!

All the Best
Dave


On 11 Dec 2008, at 17:52, Judy Perry wrote:

> I again come hat-in-hand to ask for some really ugly-looking code  
> examples
> in those "real world" programming languages to compare with Rev for  
> the
> Slashdot thread.
> Posters there are actually recommending things like Assembly(!),  
> Java, & C#!
> <shudders>
>
> Specifically the OP was looking to teach basics such as conditionals,
> variables & loops.
>
> Does anyone have any ugly examples?
>
> Judy
> http://revined.blogspot.com
>
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:21 AM, Bill Marriott <wjm at wjm.org> wrote:
>
>> Actually, it would be great if a LOT of people suggested Rev, and  
>> in some
>> depth, according to their passion! (Richmond, this seems RIGHT up  
>> your
>> alley!) The thread is filled with a lot of people who are  
>> suggesting Ruby,
>> Python, even C++! Strikes me as verging on child abuse to subject  
>> a 14-yo
>> to
>> that, but who am I to say? :)
>>
>> Seriously, would love to see folks come out and letting the world  
>> know
>> about
>> our product, it would be a great way to promote the language we  
>> all love.
>>
>> "Judy Perry" <katheryn.swynford at gmail.com>
>>> Subj: Slashdotter looking for kids' programming language
>>>
>>> http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/10/2257223
>>>
>>> Someone might want to suggest Rev...
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From mikeythek at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 09:11:14 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:11:14 -0500
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <4941E387.4080706@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<1FB3394E-663D-405D-A07C-AB7889576EC6@economy-x-talk.com>
	<A60BCCC4-5FE7-483B-B357-29646112E681@qldlearning.com>
	<4941E387.4080706@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812120611p2a7d4a54l94860bd1e53407c@mail.gmail.com>

The most "unfair" comparison of ANY strongly-typed language to an
interpreted language is to complete an extremely simple algorithm:

1) Ask for two number from the command line
2) Add them
3) Put the sum into a sentence, outputting that sum to the screen.

Typecasting code is unbelievably ugly,  as is parsing code.




On the comment of assembly, if you haven't tried assembly since 6502
assembly, or since using the 68000 assembly, you need to look at it.
Assembly language on CISC processors is like cheating.  It's very
easy.


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Dec 12 09:40:25 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:40:25 -0600
Subject: Spell check in a text field (how do I)
In-Reply-To: <42948.61977.qm@web111113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C567D3F9.17FFD%kray@sonsothunder.com>



> What are some of the ways I can write a stack which has spellchecking
> for the users in the text fields?  I have Rev 3.0 Studio (XP) and will
> deploy on windows.  Thanks folks!

Hugh Senior wrote one:

    http://www.flexiblelearning.com/xtalk.htm

Click on "SpellChecker" under "Utilities".


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From francois.chaplais at mines-paristech.fr  Fri Dec 12 10:08:00 2008
From: francois.chaplais at mines-paristech.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_Chaplais?=)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:08:00 +0100
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <4be051070812111648u1b46f16ay6164800b0428c37a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <235102C8-B1A9-4BAA-BD3A-3D1F4095870E@wanadoo.fr>
	<4be051070812111648u1b46f16ay6164800b0428c37a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3C501C1-D26C-48AD-885A-AB2181D37F46@mines-paristech.fr>


Le 12 d?c. 08 ? 01:48, Judy Perry a ?crit :

> Francis,
> No!  I'm not looking to embarass anyone here!  I just want to show  
> people
> that you can do things easier -- and certainly easier for a child --  
> in Rev
> than in all those other languages being suggested.


I believe that most posters imply that rev is easy to learn because it  
is close to "natural" language, with "natural" = english here. Plead  
remember that, for a vast majority of children around the world,  
english is something as exotic as, let's say, baseball.


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Dec 12 10:59:49 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 07:59:49 -0800
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
 kids' programming language
Message-ID: <49428A75.3090808@fourthworld.com>

Jacques Hausser wrote:
> Oh, yes indeed ! old people of any age ! from 7 to 77, like Tintin...  
> (if you're old enough to remember Tintin and Snowy)

This is way OT, but I was at my local bookstore the other day and 
discovered that the entire Tin Tin collection has recently been 
republished in a beautifully-packaged box set.

If you're a Tin Tin fan, this may be worth adding to your Christmas wish 
list.

<http://www.amazon.com/Adventures-Tintin-Collectors-Gift-Set/dp/0316006688>


If this means I'm old, it's not the only indicator. :)

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 11:09:07 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:09:07 -0800
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <8C28D0A1-B3B4-4634-95FC-ADC509DC8CF6@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <235102C8-B1A9-4BAA-BD3A-3D1F4095870E@wanadoo.fr>
	<4be051070812111648u1b46f16ay6164800b0428c37a@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C28D0A1-B3B4-4634-95FC-ADC509DC8CF6@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4be051070812120809k53e3039atabd8697ae4ca5800@mail.gmail.com>

Except that a child has almost certainly NEVER encountered that dot-joining
that you reference, but HAS encountered "the" rather alot.
Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com

On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 3:52 AM, Dave Cragg <dave.cragg at lacscentre.co.uk>wrote:

>
> On 12 Dec 2008, at 00:48, Judy Perry wrote:
>
>  I just want to show people
>> that you can do things easier -- and certainly easier for a child -- in
>> Rev
>> than in all those other languages being suggested.
>>
>
> I'll play Devil's Advocate.
>
> There seems to be some assumptions about what is easier for a child. One of
> these assumptions is that a "simple English-like syntax" is simpler than
> other kinds of syntax. I wonder if that is not an adult prejudice.
>
> Compare these two ways of representing properties:
>
> the text of me
> me.text
>
> I'd argue that the second is more visually representative of what we are
> trying to express. The dot becomes a "joining symbol" which is more easily
> remembered than the strange syntax of space + of + space. And what on earth
> is "the" all about?
>
> Perhaps I'm saying that Rev is a great language for old people to take up.
> :-)
>
> Cheers
> Dave
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 11:11:37 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:11:37 -0800
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <85FF405D-F184-44CC-B7CD-ECAE5C776A28@looktowindward.com>
References: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<85FF405D-F184-44CC-B7CD-ECAE5C776A28@looktowindward.com>
Message-ID: <4be051070812120811p75ee9b46ud4ef823016c0fbd2@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not looking for anything deceitful; I think Jacque's examples do what
I'm looking for quite nicely.
OTOH, if what you really want to to make kids hate computers and
programming, by all means force Java/C/C#/JavaScript down their throats.

Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com

On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 6:06 AM, Dave <dave at looktowindward.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> It's easy to come up with ugly code in any language, the trick is to make
> beautiful code in *any* language. Out of the many programming languages I've
> used, I've come across lot of *very* ugly code, and ugly code is ugly code
> whatever language, however, ugly code in RunRev is far far uglier than in
> any other language I've used for a number of reasons.
>
> It's seem like clutching at straws and verging on being deceitful to make
> RunRev look good by showing how bad other languages can be, while at the
> same time keeping quiet about how ugly RunRev code can be!
>
> All the Best
> Dave
>
>
>
> On 11 Dec 2008, at 17:52, Judy Perry wrote:
>
>  I again come hat-in-hand to ask for some really ugly-looking code examples
>> in those "real world" programming languages to compare with Rev for the
>> Slashdot thread.
>> Posters there are actually recommending things like Assembly(!), Java, &
>> C#!
>> <shudders>
>>
>> Specifically the OP was looking to teach basics such as conditionals,
>> variables & loops.
>>
>> Does anyone have any ugly examples?
>>
>> Judy
>> http://revined.blogspot.com
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:21 AM, Bill Marriott <wjm at wjm.org> wrote:
>>
>>  Actually, it would be great if a LOT of people suggested Rev, and in some
>>> depth, according to their passion! (Richmond, this seems RIGHT up your
>>> alley!) The thread is filled with a lot of people who are suggesting
>>> Ruby,
>>> Python, even C++! Strikes me as verging on child abuse to subject a 14-yo
>>> to
>>> that, but who am I to say? :)
>>>
>>> Seriously, would love to see folks come out and letting the world know
>>> about
>>> our product, it would be a great way to promote the language we all love.
>>>
>>> "Judy Perry" <katheryn.swynford at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>> Subj: Slashdotter looking for kids' programming language
>>>>
>>>> http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/10/2257223
>>>>
>>>> Someone might want to suggest Rev...
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Dec 12 11:10:37 2008
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:10:37 -0800
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <4be051070812111726t703d405cw40fd55f482d9ad3d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<40764560796.20081211102121@ahsoftware.net>
	<4be051070812111726t703d405cw40fd55f482d9ad3d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <127843117375.20081212081037@ahsoftware.net>

Judy-

Thursday, December 11, 2008, 5:26:36 PM, you wrote:

> Mark,
> Thanks; I am still laughing at your favorite ;-)

...A bonus is that it actually compiles and (spoiler alert!) runs a
daisy-petal "he-loves-me-he-loves-me-not" routine...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From geradamas at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 12 11:17:14 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:17:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MouseMove . . .  err?
Message-ID: <234094.72050.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Just knocked together a silly little stack with 4 buttons called 
"X1", "X2", "X3" and "X4". Now I want them to chase my cursor in 
a quad shape, and to do that I popped this script into my card:

on mouseMove
  set the moveSpeed to 10000
  put item 1 of the mouseLoc into MISHKA1
   put item 2 of the mouseLoc into MISHKA2
   move btn "X1" to (MISHKA1 + 40), (MISHKA2 + 40)
   move btn "X2" to (MISHKA1 - 40), (MISHKA2 + 40)
   move btn "X3" to (MISHKA1 + 40), (MISHKA2 - 40)
   move btn "X4" to (MISHKA1 - 40), (MISHKA2 - 40)
end mouseMove

[ find "MISHKA.rev" at revOnline, under 'Richmond' ]

but the buttons behave a bit oddly (cannot describe it, has to
be seen to be understood).

Would be grateful for help.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From luis at anachreon.co.uk  Fri Dec 12 11:18:30 2008
From: luis at anachreon.co.uk (Luis)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:18:30 +0000
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <49428A75.3090808@fourthworld.com>
References: <49428A75.3090808@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B2B9EEBE-0E5F-4DAA-BCDB-D4A85AC033F9@anachreon.co.uk>

Some of the reviews mention that the text is tiny, so if you're  
_that_ old...

Cheers,

Luis.

On 12 Dec 2008, at 15:59, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Jacques Hausser wrote:
>> Oh, yes indeed ! old people of any age ! from 7 to 77, like  
>> Tintin...  (if you're old enough to remember Tintin and Snowy)
>
> This is way OT, but I was at my local bookstore the other day and  
> discovered that the entire Tin Tin collection has recently been  
> republished in a beautifully-packaged box set.
>
> If you're a Tin Tin fan, this may be worth adding to your Christmas  
> wish list.
>
> <http://www.amazon.com/Adventures-Tintin-Collectors-Gift-Set/dp/ 
> 0316006688>
>
>
> If this means I'm old, it's not the only indicator. :)
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World
>  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Fri Dec 12 11:21:29 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:21:29 -0800
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking
 for 	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <1D1D3390-438D-4170-AACC-4CC1E8D23204@liverpool.ac.uk>
References: <235102C8-B1A9-4BAA-BD3A-3D1F4095870E@wanadoo.fr>
	<4be051070812111648u1b46f16ay6164800b0428c37a@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C28D0A1-B3B4-4634-95FC-ADC509DC8CF6@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<598242C0-0E35-412E-853D-C1ADC5A35873@cox.net>
	<1D1D3390-438D-4170-AACC-4CC1E8D23204@liverpool.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <p06240800c5683fc47bde@[192.168.1.105]>

ARRRRRRRRRGGGGGHH NO!

not Microsoft-speak!!


>Maybe we need a synonym for "the ... of me" - how about something like "my"?
>
>put my text into xx
>set my hilite to true
>
>etc.

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -





From dave.cragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Fri Dec 12 11:31:13 2008
From: dave.cragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:31:13 +0000
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <4be051070812120809k53e3039atabd8697ae4ca5800@mail.gmail.com>
References: <235102C8-B1A9-4BAA-BD3A-3D1F4095870E@wanadoo.fr>
	<4be051070812111648u1b46f16ay6164800b0428c37a@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C28D0A1-B3B4-4634-95FC-ADC509DC8CF6@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<4be051070812120809k53e3039atabd8697ae4ca5800@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <63E2FE78-B629-4AFC-AA6A-CCEAE909B94D@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 12 Dec 2008, at 16:09, Judy Perry wrote:

> Except that a child has almost certainly NEVER encountered that dot- 
> joining
> that you reference, but HAS encountered "the" rather alot.
> Judy

But more important surely is that the child has never encountered the  
programming concept of object properties. In Maths, for example, we  
teach kids new syntax for new concepts. I doubt many kids will tell  
you that "4 + 4" is more difficult to understand than "4 added to 4".  
But before either, we would usually introduce the concept, perhaps   
visually with pictures of oranges arranged in groups and so on. I'm  
guessing it's the same with programming - if you can establish the  
concept, then new syntax can be learned.

Then again, it may be that programming is just plain difficult,  
whatever language we use. :-)

Cheers
Dave




From mikeythek at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 11:34:44 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:34:44 -0500
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <127843117375.20081212081037@ahsoftware.net>
References: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<40764560796.20081211102121@ahsoftware.net>
	<4be051070812111726t703d405cw40fd55f482d9ad3d@mail.gmail.com>
	<127843117375.20081212081037@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812120834w7c31d597gc7230576dc51f5eb@mail.gmail.com>

Judy,
I'm not sure if you were referring to my comment when you said
"deceitful", but I contend that it is not at all deceitful.
Strongly-typed language fans would object that you are pointing out
the soft underbelly of their language, and therefore it is unfair
because that example amplifies the situation, and at the same time
clearly demonstrates the point about an xTalk language, or, for that
matter, most scripting/interpreted languages.

I pull my hair out any time that I try to use GWT or other similar
tools to write code to build interactive web pages, because of all of
the casts and declarations and quote mark after quote mark after quote
mark that is required to get the job done.  It's like LISP with
apostrophes sometimes.


From mikeythek at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 11:52:55 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:52:55 -0500
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <63E2FE78-B629-4AFC-AA6A-CCEAE909B94D@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <235102C8-B1A9-4BAA-BD3A-3D1F4095870E@wanadoo.fr>
	<4be051070812111648u1b46f16ay6164800b0428c37a@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C28D0A1-B3B4-4634-95FC-ADC509DC8CF6@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<4be051070812120809k53e3039atabd8697ae4ca5800@mail.gmail.com>
	<63E2FE78-B629-4AFC-AA6A-CCEAE909B94D@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812120852p32039fe6of2a85c3f6cfb17f@mail.gmail.com>

Dave,

Math concepts are only additive in theory, otherwise, we could talk
about path integrals and second and third order partial differential
equations all day on this list and everyone would be right with it.

There are math books and math classes just for girls because...girls
seem to see and think differently than boys do.  From personal
experience with my children, it is clear that this is the case.  Two
of my kids are blowing by their peers and have already skipped a grade
each in Math, and are continuing to accelerate away.  My other one
gets geometry and algebra, but struggles, with the mechanics of long
anything, until she does it backwards.

As we all know, everybody's different, and everybody's learning style
is a little different.  I was able to teach a room full of rank
amateurs, over two class periods, how to build various personal
productivity applications in HyperCard in College, and hook almost all
of them in the process.  However, when I tried to do the same things
with the CS junkies, it was a total flop - they couldn't learn it the
way I was teaching it.  It was the most fascinating, and most
rewarding credit hours of my four years in College.


From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Dec 12 12:02:15 2008
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:02:15 -0800
Subject: Show globals
Message-ID: <B0000607306@titan.pon.net>

Bob, et al:

A couple of follow up thoughts:

>And script local variables cannot be accidentally or purposely read 
>or changed by scripts in other stacks or other objects.

This may not mean much if you are developing end user applications; 
however if you are building libraries that may be used by other Rev 
developers, it is a significant plus.

>any script local variable can be accessed by handlers in other 
>scripts or stacks, if the script declaring the local variable 
>includes a getValue function and a setValue command for that variable.  Eg:
>
>local mySharedVariable
>
>function getValue
>    return mySharedVariable
>end getValue
>
>on setValue newValue
>    put newValue into mySharedVariable
>end setValue

The examples I gave are very generic.  In the real world one might 
script specific get and set handlers:

local mySharedVariable
local anotherSharedValue

function getMySharedVariable
    return mySharedVariable
end  getMySharedVariable

on setAnotherSharedValue newValue
    put newValue into anotherSharedValue
end

or something a little more generic like:

function getValue variableName
    switch variableName
       case "mySharedVariable"
          return mySharedVariable
       case "anotherSharedValue"
          return anotherSharedValue
    end switch
    return empty --or an error
end getVal;ue

on setValue variableName, newValue
    switch variableName
       case "mySharedVariable"
          put newValue into mySharedVariable
          break
       case "anotherSharedValue"
          put newValue into anotherSharedValue
          break
    end switch
end getVal;ue

I don't know if "do" will do the job:

function getValue variableName
    do "put"&&variableName&&"into theValue"
   return theValue
end getValue

because I don't do "do"s and wonder if code compiled a runtime can 
access script local variables.

If shared script local variables reside in the stack script, then 
handlers such as those above allow access to the variables from every 
other handler in the stack.  If the script locals reside on an 
interior control, one might want to script getValue as a command 
which can be sent by other handlers elsewhere in the stack:

on getMySharedVariable
    return mySharedVariable
end getMySharedVariable

Where the calling handler could...

    send "getMySharedVariable" to <reference to control whose script 
contains\ the variable>
    put the result into mySharedVariableCopy



Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
  Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

  from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) 

From coiin at rcn.com  Fri Dec 12 12:23:42 2008
From: coiin at rcn.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:23:42 -0500
Subject: MouseMove . . .  err?
In-Reply-To: <234094.72050.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <234094.72050.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CE3B8F5C-B146-43E5-88FF-D4C93AA41839@rcn.com>

It behaves as if all of the moves are queued up, and the buttons are  
heading towards where the mouse was on the last mouse move. Or  
something like that. You'll see that if you wait for all the movement  
to stop, and then twitch the mouse, the buttons go to the right  
place. Also moving the mouse very slowly makes them follow quickly  
enough to look right.

I'm not sure if it's a good idea anyway. Each time I try the stack I  
end up having to force quit Rev. The first time I had to restart my  
computer. At the very least you might try setting the movespeed to  
zero, that way the buttons will move immediately, and not queue up a  
bunch of move commands.

Perhaps you could check to see if the button is already at the  
destination, that would save doing moves that aren't needed.





From bfr at nwlink.com  Fri Dec 12 12:31:01 2008
From: bfr at nwlink.com (Bruce Robertson)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:31:01 -0800
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking
	for kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <0DF5FF61-6A1C-43F8-9434-66B6A694B919@unil.ch>
Message-ID: <C567DFD5.8A486%bfr@nwlink.com>

> Oh, yes indeed ! old people of any age ! from 7 to 77, like Tintin...
> (if you're old enough to remember Tintin and Snowy)

Wasn't that Rin's last name?



From bobs at twft.com  Fri Dec 12 12:35:02 2008
From: bobs at twft.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:35:02 -0800
Subject: Show globals
In-Reply-To: <B0000607306@titan.pon.net>
References: <B0000607306@titan.pon.net>
Message-ID: <1F6AFA7F-5900-44D2-A1AA-0CB17CE8C3D5@twft.com>

Oh I see how that works. That makes sense for distributed developer  
tools. You are preventing unintended changes to your internal  
variables from the the "outside world" while providing a mechanism for  
accessing them if needed. I never understood Script Local variables  
until now.

Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM

On Dec 12, 2008, at 9:02 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> Bob, et al:
>
> A couple of follow up thoughts:
>
>> And script local variables cannot be accidentally or purposely read
>> or changed by scripts in other stacks or other objects.
>
> This may not mean much if you are developing end user applications;
> however if you are building libraries that may be used by other Rev
> developers, it is a significant plus.
>
>> any script local variable can be accessed by handlers in other
>> scripts or stacks, if the script declaring the local variable
>> includes a getValue function and a setValue command for that  
>> variable.  Eg:
>>
>> local mySharedVariable
>>
>> function getValue
>>   return mySharedVariable
>> end getValue
>>
>> on setValue newValue
>>   put newValue into mySharedVariable
>> end setValue
>
> The examples I gave are very generic.  In the real world one might
> script specific get and set handlers:
>
> local mySharedVariable
> local anotherSharedValue
>
> function getMySharedVariable
>    return mySharedVariable
> end  getMySharedVariable
>
> on setAnotherSharedValue newValue
>    put newValue into anotherSharedValue
> end
>
> or something a little more generic like:
>
> function getValue variableName
>    switch variableName
>       case "mySharedVariable"
>          return mySharedVariable
>       case "anotherSharedValue"
>          return anotherSharedValue
>    end switch
>    return empty --or an error
> end getVal;ue
>
> on setValue variableName, newValue
>    switch variableName
>       case "mySharedVariable"
>          put newValue into mySharedVariable
>          break
>       case "anotherSharedValue"
>          put newValue into anotherSharedValue
>          break
>    end switch
> end getVal;ue
>
> I don't know if "do" will do the job:
>
> function getValue variableName
>    do "put"&&variableName&&"into theValue"
>   return theValue
> end getValue
>
> because I don't do "do"s and wonder if code compiled a runtime can
> access script local variables.
>
> If shared script local variables reside in the stack script, then
> handlers such as those above allow access to the variables from every
> other handler in the stack.  If the script locals reside on an
> interior control, one might want to script getValue as a command
> which can be sent by other handlers elsewhere in the stack:
>
> on getMySharedVariable
>    return mySharedVariable
> end getMySharedVariable
>
> Where the calling handler could...
>
>    send "getMySharedVariable" to <reference to control whose script
> contains\ the variable>
>    put the result into mySharedVariableCopy
>
>
>
> Rob Cozens CCW
> Serendipity Software Company
>
> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
>  Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
>
>  from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 12:35:59 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:35:59 -0800
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <9b408d8e0812120834w7c31d597gc7230576dc51f5eb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<40764560796.20081211102121@ahsoftware.net>
	<4be051070812111726t703d405cw40fd55f482d9ad3d@mail.gmail.com>
	<127843117375.20081212081037@ahsoftware.net>
	<9b408d8e0812120834w7c31d597gc7230576dc51f5eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4be051070812120935s45e65aa2uef95968ac20b683c@mail.gmail.com>

Mikey,

No, I wasn't referring to your comment.  Sorry to have not been more clear!
Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com

On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:34 AM, Mikey <mikeythek at gmail.com> wrote:

> Judy,
> I'm not sure if you were referring to my comment when you said
> "deceitful", but I contend that it is not at all deceitful.
> Strongly-typed language fans would object that you are pointing out
> the soft underbelly of their language, and therefore it is unfair
> because that example amplifies the situation, and at the same time
> clearly demonstrates the point about an xTalk language, or, for that
> matter, most scripting/interpreted languages.
>
> I pull my hair out any time that I try to use GWT or other similar
> tools to write code to build interactive web pages, because of all of
> the casts and declarations and quote mark after quote mark after quote
> mark that is required to get the job done.  It's like LISP with
> apostrophes sometimes.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 12:37:34 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:37:34 -0800
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking
	forkids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <ghsfhc$cif$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<ghsfhc$cif$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4be051070812120937s7b74b0feg34e2a776384f5ee4@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Bill!
Too bad your entry came in too late...

Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Bill Marriott <wjm at wjm.org> wrote:

> A few weeks ago, I came across a blog by someone who actually ran a contest
> for *readable* code. The assignment was to write an algorithm for producing
> anagrams. My response, and links to the original contest (where you can see
> some truly hideous examples) can be found at
> http://revuser.com/readable.htm
>
>
>


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Dec 12 12:38:27 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:38:27 -0600
Subject: MouseMove . . .  err?
In-Reply-To: <234094.72050.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <234094.72050.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4942A193.1090708@hyperactivesw.com>

Richmond Mathewson wrote:
> Just knocked together a silly little stack with 4 buttons called 
> "X1", "X2", "X3" and "X4". Now I want them to chase my cursor in 
> a quad shape, and to do that I popped this script into my card:
> 
> on mouseMove
>   set the moveSpeed to 10000
>   put item 1 of the mouseLoc into MISHKA1
>    put item 2 of the mouseLoc into MISHKA2
>    move btn "X1" to (MISHKA1 + 40), (MISHKA2 + 40)
>    move btn "X2" to (MISHKA1 - 40), (MISHKA2 + 40)
>    move btn "X3" to (MISHKA1 + 40), (MISHKA2 - 40)
>    move btn "X4" to (MISHKA1 - 40), (MISHKA2 - 40)
> end mouseMove
> 
> [ find "MISHKA.rev" at revOnline, under 'Richmond' ]
> 
> but the buttons behave a bit oddly (cannot describe it, has to
> be seen to be understood).

I didn't actually look at it, but from the description I'd say that each 
mouseMove message (which is sent many, many times per second) is 
triggering a new set of "move" commands, which will interfere with the 
move commands already executing. I wouldn't use a movemove handler to 
trigger this behavior. MouseEnter or something else that is sent only 
once would be a better choice.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 12:39:37 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:39:37 -0800
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <1FB3394E-663D-405D-A07C-AB7889576EC6@economy-x-talk.com>
References: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<1FB3394E-663D-405D-A07C-AB7889576EC6@economy-x-talk.com>
Message-ID: <4be051070812120939w73a2829cm9d02f48c5cf6c14e@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Mark.
You know, I actually kinda like BASIC and don't find it ugly at all @;-)

Or, at least I didn't back in my C-64 days, hacking whatever ascii-art
adventure game I was playing at the time.

Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 5:47 PM, Mark Schonewille <
m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote:

> Hi Judy,
>
> A few very simple examples. Revolution is clearly much more readable and
> easier to work with for starting programmers than other languages.
>
> # revolution
> on foo
>  repeat with x = 32 to 255
>    put x & "         " & numToChar(x) & cr after msg
>  end repeat
> end foo
>
> This one is hardly readable if you're not used to reading programing code:
>
> # php
> <?php
> for ($chrNr=32;$chrNr < 255;$chrNr++)
> {
>        echo $chrNr."        ".chr($chrNr)."\n";
> }
> ?>
>
> Just for fun, here's the AppleScript version. Quite similar to Revolution,
> but much more picky.
>
> -- applescript
> on foo()
>        set myList to ""
>        repeat with x from 32 to 255
>                set myList to myList & x & "      " & (ASCII character x) &
> return
>        end repeat
>        return myList
> end foo
>
> Btw, if you want ugly code, this one should not be omitted...
>
> 0 REM BASIC
> 10 LET x = 31
> 20 LET X = X + 1
> 30 PRINT x,"        ",CHR$(x)
> 40 IF x < 255 GOTO 20
> 50 END
>
> I've tested all the examples above. They all work.
>
> Of course, there is a large collection of programming languages already and
> people can easily pick the one that looks easy at <
> http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-runtime-revolution-499.html>.
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Schonewille
>
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> http://economy-x-talk.com
> http://www.salery.biz
> Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum
>
> We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to discuss
> your custom software project!
>
> On 11 dec 2008, at 18:52, Judy Perry wrote:
>
>  I again come hat-in-hand to ask for some really ugly-looking code examples
>> in those "real world" programming languages to compare with Rev for the
>> Slashdot thread.
>> Posters there are actually recommending things like Assembly(!), Java, &
>> C#!
>> <shudders>
>>
>> Specifically the OP was looking to teach basics such as conditionals,
>> variables & loops.
>>
>> Does anyone have any ugly examples?
>>
>> Judy
>> http://revined.blogspot.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From coiin at rcn.com  Fri Dec 12 13:00:16 2008
From: coiin at rcn.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:00:16 -0500
Subject: MouseMove . . .  err?
In-Reply-To: <4942A193.1090708@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <234094.72050.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4942A193.1090708@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <96561090-239C-4253-ABB3-B8591D70A2D3@rcn.com>


On Dec 12, 2008, at 12:38 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> MouseEnter or something else that is sent only once would be a  
> better choice.

If you're trying to get four boxes to follow the mouse around, and  
the mouse isn't mousing over anything, the boxes wouldn't move.




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Dec 12 13:21:28 2008
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:21:28 -0800
Subject: MouseMove . . .  err?
In-Reply-To: <234094.72050.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C567EBA8.3E2D1%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> Just knocked together a silly little stack with 4 buttons called
> "X1", "X2", "X3" and "X4". Now I want them to chase my cursor in
> a quad shape, and to do that I popped this script into my card:
> 
> on mouseMove
>   set the moveSpeed to 10000
>   put item 1 of the mouseLoc into MISHKA1
>    put item 2 of the mouseLoc into MISHKA2
>    move btn "X1" to (MISHKA1 + 40), (MISHKA2 + 40)
>    move btn "X2" to (MISHKA1 - 40), (MISHKA2 + 40)
>    move btn "X3" to (MISHKA1 + 40), (MISHKA2 - 40)
>    move btn "X4" to (MISHKA1 - 40), (MISHKA2 - 40)
> end mouseMove
> 
> [ find "MISHKA.rev" at revOnline, under 'Richmond' ]
> 
> but the buttons behave a bit oddly (cannot describe it, has to
> be seen to be understood).


As mentioned by others, it is dangerous to put time-intensive events in the
mouseMove handler because you risk locking up Rev and having to abort.  At
the very least, include a trigger that can disable the move events -- make
sure you have some "out" from the script, just in case.  And if you want
near-asynchronous movement (not clear if you do), you need to lock/unlock
moves.

I might do something like this:

on mouseMove X,Y
   if the hilite of btn "chase" then send "moveThem X,Y" to me
end mouseMove

on moveThem X,Y
   set the moveSpeed to 1000
   lock moves
   move btn "X1" to X+40,Y+40 without waiting
   move btn "X2" to X-40,Y+40 without waiting
   move btn "X3" to X+40,Y-40 without waiting
   move btn "X4" to X-40,Y-40 without waiting
   unlock moves
end moveThem



BTW, you don't need to poll the mouseLoc in a mouseMove handler -- mouse
tracking is handled by the engine, with horizontal and vertical coordinates
included in two parameters sent with the mouseMove message.


Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design




From DunbarX at aol.com  Fri Dec 12 13:29:39 2008
From: DunbarX at aol.com (DunbarX at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:29:39 EST
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_MouseMove_=2E_=2E_=2E=A0_err=3F?=
Message-ID: <c1f.503c21bc.36740793@aol.com>


In a message dated 12/12/08 1:00:43 PM, coiin at rcn.com writes:


> 
> If you're trying to get four boxes to follow the mouse around, and?
> the mouse isn't mousing over anything, the boxes wouldn't move.
> 

Colin. You are an expert at this sort of thing. I've seen your work. Give the 
guy a hint.


**************
Make your life easier with all your friends, email, 
and favorite sites in one place.  Try it now. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&amp;icid=aolcom40vanity&amp;ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)


From coiin at rcn.com  Fri Dec 12 13:46:22 2008
From: coiin at rcn.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:46:22 -0500
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_MouseMove_=2E_=2E_=2E=A0_err=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <c1f.503c21bc.36740793@aol.com>
References: <c1f.503c21bc.36740793@aol.com>
Message-ID: <F6289CB0-6E86-464D-BEAD-1B4D11595913@rcn.com>


On Dec 12, 2008, at 1:29 PM, DunbarX at aol.com wrote:

> Colin. You are an expert at this sort of thing. I've seen your  
> work. Give the
> guy a hint.

I did do in my reply to his message.




From wjm at wjm.org  Fri Dec 12 13:50:29 2008
From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:50:29 -0500
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons
References: <235102C8-B1A9-4BAA-BD3A-3D1F4095870E@wanadoo.fr><4be051070812111648u1b46f16ay6164800b0428c37a@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3C501C1-D26C-48AD-885A-AB2181D37F46@mines-paristech.fr>
Message-ID: <ghubpl$mlt$1@ger.gmane.org>

If about 100x as many users end up using Revolution, it might be possible 
one day to invest in, say, a Spanish variant and still have it deemed an 
"xTalk." Despite their widespread usage I don't know of a similar option for 
C++, Java, Ruby, Python, JavaScript, HTML, etc., which all use snippets of 
English in their syntax. So, the teeming masses of children you speak of 
will be in the same boat. Sorry but nowadays English is the international 
language of business and technology.

"Fran?ois Chaplais" wrote

> I believe that most posters imply that rev is easy to learn because it  is 
> close to "natural" language, with "natural" = english here. Plead 
> remember that, for a vast majority of children around the world,  english 
> is something as exotic as, let's say, baseball. 





From geradamas at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 12 13:57:36 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:57:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MouseMove . . .  err?
Message-ID: <220091.36500.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

He gave "the guy" a hint!

The buttons move around (THAT is not the problem),

The stack crashed neither my old G3 iMac nor my G4 Dual Mirror door nor 
my 1.7 GHz, 512 MB RAM Pentium 4 (Ubuntu 8.04.1).

The buttons moved around because I was moving my mouse around the
'surface' of the card.

Colin Holgate's notes will be extremely useful tomorrow, when I have time
to try them out: Thank you very much, Colin.

And, now to "Mr DunbarX", my name is 'Richmond Mathewson' and
not 'the guy' - some of us don't feel it particularly necessary to
masquerade under nommes de guerre!

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From coiin at rcn.com  Fri Dec 12 14:07:08 2008
From: coiin at rcn.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:07:08 -0500
Subject: MouseMove . . .  err?
In-Reply-To: <220091.36500.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <220091.36500.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9F681D68-710B-4288-8778-875FDD9B440F@rcn.com>


On Dec 12, 2008, at 1:57 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> And, now to "Mr DunbarX", my name is 'Richmond Mathewson' and
> not 'the guy' - some of us don't feel it particularly necessary to
> masquerade under nommes de guerre!

Atypically, Craig did post his name at one point.

As for "the guy", that's a character in Spy Kids 3, and in computer  
circles he's the ultimate hero. So it wasn't too bad a label to give  
you!




From geradamas at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 12 14:09:15 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:09:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MouseMove . . . err?
Message-ID: <488320.9468.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thank you, Scott.

This is really the first time I have experimented with moving controls around
in this way.

Of course, I wanted to be b**chy, I would point out that the documentation
lacked a bit in this area:

"it is dangerous to put time-intensive events in the
mouseMove handler because you risk locking up Rev and having to abort."

is news to me (welcome news).

I suppose the really clever thing would be to put the 4 buttons together
in a group and then move the group around ????

Ho, Ho, Ho . . .  Just did it:

on mouseMove
  set the moveSpeed to 10000
  move grp "G1" to the mouseLoc
end mouseMove

There is more than one way to skin a cat!

Have a lovely weekend, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Dec 12 14:14:10 2008
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:14:10 -0800
Subject: MouseMove . . . err?
In-Reply-To: <488320.9468.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C567F802.3E2E3%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> I suppose the really clever thing would be to put the 4 buttons together
> in a group and then move the group around ????
> 
> Ho, Ho, Ho . . .  Just did it:
> 
> on mouseMove
>   set the moveSpeed to 10000
>   move grp "G1" to the mouseLoc
> end mouseMove
> 
> There is more than one way to skin a cat!

If all you want to do is move an object/s around with the mouse, why not
just use the grab command?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design




From coiin at rcn.com  Fri Dec 12 14:14:57 2008
From: coiin at rcn.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:14:57 -0500
Subject: MouseMove . . . err?
In-Reply-To: <488320.9468.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <488320.9468.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DAB752B5-672C-4C30-9591-4C2DC70D465F@rcn.com>


On Dec 12, 2008, at 2:09 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> on mouseMove
>   set the moveSpeed to 10000
>   move grp "G1" to the mouseLoc
> end mouseMove

That could still potentially queue up moves. Also, set the moveSpeed  
to 0 would be worth doing, just to make sure it gets there right  
away. Though of course that would be more of an issue on monitors  
greater than 10000 pixels across!




From coiin at rcn.com  Fri Dec 12 14:24:11 2008
From: coiin at rcn.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:24:11 -0500
Subject: MouseMove . . . err?
In-Reply-To: <C567F802.3E2E3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <C567F802.3E2E3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <B695D071-3B2D-465D-B243-C6D362DBBB29@rcn.com>


On Dec 12, 2008, at 2:14 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> If all you want to do is move an object/s around with the mouse,  
> why not
> just use the grab command?

The Help suggests that the mouse would need to be down, and over the  
thing you're grabbing, neither of which would be the case:

"You can only grab a control when the mouse pointer is within the  
control's rectangle at the time the mouse is clicked. If the mouse  
pointer is outside the control when the grab command is executed,  
nothing happens."






From DunbarX at aol.com  Fri Dec 12 14:29:44 2008
From: DunbarX at aol.com (DunbarX at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:29:44 EST
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_MouseMove_=2E_=2E_=2E=A0_err=3F?=
Message-ID: <c79.4a04dc3f.367415a8@aol.com>


In a message dated 12/12/08 1:58:05 PM, geradamas at yahoo.com writes:


> And, now to "Mr DunbarX", my name is 'Richmond Mathewson' and
> not 'the guy' - some of us don't feel it particularly necessary to
> masquerade under nommes de guerre!
> 
Richard.

Hi.

I meant "the guy" as in "give the guy a break". This is an American slangy 
thing. Do I suspect you are English? Anyway, nothing personal, I assure you; if 
anything, I was exhorting Colin, who is kinda English, to action. 

I missed Colin's solution. He used to move objects all over the place like 
chicks behind their mother. I remember he was setting locs like crazy.

Craig Newman


**************
Make your life easier with all your friends, email, 
and favorite sites in one place.  Try it now. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&amp;icid=aolcom40vanity&amp;ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)


From wjm at wjm.org  Fri Dec 12 14:29:42 2008
From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:29:42 -0500
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking
	forkids' programming language
References: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<85FF405D-F184-44CC-B7CD-ECAE5C776A28@looktowindward.com>
Message-ID: <ghue39$u90$1@ger.gmane.org>

Dave,

> [...] ugly code in  RunRev is far far uglier than in any other language 
> I've used for a  number of reasons.

Quite honestly, I'd like to see examples and specifics to support this 
claim. Indeed, if you think this is the case, try entering one of the "code 
obfuscation" challenges. It's quite rare I get a block of Rev code that I 
cannot understand with a little bit of study. The same cannot be said for 
other languages. At worst there might be a "PageMaker" effect. For those of 
you around at the dawn of desktop publishing, the availability of this 
software (and LaserWriters) to the masses led to a lot of poorly designed 
newsletters. But just as with PageMaker, Revolution enables mortal beings to 
accomplish things they could not consider doing previously. The particular 
expression may be inelegant, but if it works, it works.

> It's seem like clutching at straws and verging on being deceitful to  make 
> RunRev look good by showing how bad other languages can be,  while at the 
> same time keeping quiet about how ugly RunRev code can be!

Them's is strong words, fightin' words!

Look, someone can write a pretty awful novel in English. But you can at 
least read it, even with horrendous spelling and grammar errors, etc. You 
could be given a brilliant text written in Chinese, but if you don't know 
Chinese, it's a bit moot.

The readability of our language is its primary selling point, and not just 
something RunRev made up as a slogan over pints. It's why Revolution exists, 
the primary reason why we all use it. Not out of necessity, not because 
we're less intelligent, but because it's a joy to write and efficient to 
maintain. I'd venture many of us wouldn't be programmers today if it weren't 
for Rev.

While the majority of Slashdotters in that thread are debating the relative 
merits of one language over another, the elephant in the room is that they 
are ALL by comparison to Revolution, UNNATURAL. ONLY Revolution* comes close 
to using plain English to describe an algorithm. It might even be valid to 
say that because Revolution does not have built-in routines for some of the 
things other languages can do that you must add custom functions or work 
around those limitations in an inelegant way. But, you can STILL read and 
understand what that code does! Even Brian Yennie's fanciful example of 
"ugly" Rev code was merely complex (you might not off the top of your head 
predict the result), but each line was clear what it does.

I do not feel there is any reasonable debate that the average Revolution 
handler will be shorter, clearer, and easier to follow than the average 
routine in just about any other language. Revolution is the pinnacle of 
"self-documenting" code available today. If you want to show evidence that's 
not the case, I'm all ears.

At the end of the day I suppose it might come down to aesthetics, which is 
difficult to quantify in a way where we can say, "Yes, this is more ugly 
than that." But there are no straws to be clutched at here. Of all the 
criticisms that could be made of Revolution, inscrutable code is not one of 
them.

- Bill

* and HyperCard, SuperCard, and Director Lingo, all deprecated products 
(Director shifted to ECMAscript), and AppleScript (which as demonstrated 
elsewhere in the thread has evolved toward unreadability) 





From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Fri Dec 12 14:40:57 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:40:57 +0100
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking
	forkids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <ghue39$u90$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<85FF405D-F184-44CC-B7CD-ECAE5C776A28@looktowindward.com>
	<ghue39$u90$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <ABADE7A2-4E9F-47D0-86A9-A8E55680516E@economy-x-talk.com>

Hello,

I call that the HyperCard effect.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to  
discuss your custom software project!

On 12 dec 2008, at 20:29, Bill Marriott wrote:

> Dave,
>>
<snip>
> cannot understand with a little bit of study. The same cannot be  
> said for
> other languages. At worst there might be a "PageMaker" effect. For  
> those of
> you around at the dawn of desktop publishing, the availability of this
> software (and LaserWriters) to the masses led to a lot of poorly  
> designed
> newsletters. But just as with PageMaker, Revolution enables mortal  
> beings to
> accomplish things they could not consider doing previously. The  
> particular
> expression may be inelegant, but if it works, it works.
<snip>


From mikeythek at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 14:43:45 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:43:45 -0500
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking
	forkids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <ABADE7A2-4E9F-47D0-86A9-A8E55680516E@economy-x-talk.com>
References: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<85FF405D-F184-44CC-B7CD-ECAE5C776A28@looktowindward.com>
	<ghue39$u90$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<ABADE7A2-4E9F-47D0-86A9-A8E55680516E@economy-x-talk.com>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812121143u50dbadd3hfe32d178383609a@mail.gmail.com>

The same thing can be said for spreadsheets - extremely powerful and
yet just a little too simple...

>> cannot understand with a little bit of study. The same cannot be said for
>> other languages. At worst there might be a "PageMaker" effect. For those


From coiin at rcn.com  Fri Dec 12 14:44:23 2008
From: coiin at rcn.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:44:23 -0500
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_MouseMove_=2E_=2E_=2E=A0_err=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <c79.4a04dc3f.367415a8@aol.com>
References: <c79.4a04dc3f.367415a8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3597ECA2-3D1C-455A-8773-29BEAB08F0BD@rcn.com>


On Dec 12, 2008, at 2:29 PM, DunbarX at aol.com wrote:

> I missed Colin's solution. He used to move objects all over the  
> place like
> chicks behind their mother. I remember he was setting locs like crazy.

Here's a screen recording of my first Rev stack in action:

http://staff.funnygarbage.com/colin/track/revtrack.mov




From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 14:45:13 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:45:13 -0800
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking
	forkids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <ABADE7A2-4E9F-47D0-86A9-A8E55680516E@economy-x-talk.com>
References: <4be051070812110952w60e52cc5oee29fc14d9a155c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<85FF405D-F184-44CC-B7CD-ECAE5C776A28@looktowindward.com>
	<ghue39$u90$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<ABADE7A2-4E9F-47D0-86A9-A8E55680516E@economy-x-talk.com>
Message-ID: <4be051070812121145g42867af9ha032ec2d987e1d43@mail.gmail.com>

Please don't say that like it's a bad thing!
Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com

On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Mark Schonewille <
m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I call that the HyperCard effect.
>
>
>


From mikeythek at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 14:45:17 2008
From: mikeythek at gmail.com (Mikey)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:45:17 -0500
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons
In-Reply-To: <ghubpl$mlt$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <235102C8-B1A9-4BAA-BD3A-3D1F4095870E@wanadoo.fr>
	<4be051070812111648u1b46f16ay6164800b0428c37a@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3C501C1-D26C-48AD-885A-AB2181D37F46@mines-paristech.fr>
	<ghubpl$mlt$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <9b408d8e0812121145n2d1ebc13jd0621cca076b6dfe@mail.gmail.com>

> If about 100x as many users end up using Revolution, it might be possible
> one day to invest in, say, a Spanish variant and still have it deemed an
> "xTalk." Despite their widespread usage I don't know of a similar option for
> C++, Java, Ruby, Python, JavaScript, HTML, etc., which all use snippets of
> English in their syntax. So, the teeming masses of children you speak of
> will be in the same boat. Sorry but nowadays English is the international
> language of business and technology.


A good point - didn't Ruby originate in Japan?  I know 4D is a French invention.


From DunbarX at aol.com  Fri Dec 12 14:49:20 2008
From: DunbarX at aol.com (DunbarX at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:49:20 EST
Subject: Size limits for posting
Message-ID: <cd1.41e2b526.36741a40@aol.com>

I keep running into a 15K limit for posting to the list, though the length of 
my text is far smaller. Needs moderator (I think this is Heather) approval to 
continue.   Anyone else see this? And is the length of the text body the same 
as the size of the post?

Thanks,

Craig Newman


**************
Make your life easier with all your friends, email, 
and favorite sites in one place.  Try it now. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&amp;icid=aolcom40vanity&amp;ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)


From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Fri Dec 12 14:54:22 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:54:22 +0100
Subject: Size limits for posting
In-Reply-To: <cd1.41e2b526.36741a40@aol.com>
References: <cd1.41e2b526.36741a40@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4AEDF694-7D16-4F2D-A463-E92FC6E014BE@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi Craig,

I have never had this problem. I don't think changing this limit is  
necessary. A 15K post is simply too long to read. I should also add  
that I send my e-mails as plain text, WISIWYG.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to  
discuss your custom software project!

On 12 dec 2008, at 20:49, DunbarX at aol.com wrote:

> I keep running into a 15K limit for posting to the list, though the  
> length of
> my text is far smaller. Needs moderator (I think this is Heather)  
> approval to
> continue.   Anyone else see this? And is the length of the text body  
> the same
> as the size of the post?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Craig Newman
>



From coiin at rcn.com  Fri Dec 12 14:55:56 2008
From: coiin at rcn.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:55:56 -0500
Subject: Size limits for posting
In-Reply-To: <cd1.41e2b526.36741a40@aol.com>
References: <cd1.41e2b526.36741a40@aol.com>
Message-ID: <045C68D3-25C9-4B6E-86EA-A952AEC47F44@rcn.com>


On Dec 12, 2008, at 2:49 PM, DunbarX at aol.com wrote:

> I keep running into a 15K limit for posting to the list, though the  
> length of
> my text is far smaller. Needs moderator (I think this is Heather)  
> approval to
> continue.   Anyone else see this? And is the length of the text  
> body the same
> as the size of the post?

The email you just sent is only 3k. But I have seen my messages  
taking a while to get to the list, so there may be another issue.




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Dec 12 14:56:52 2008
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:56:52 -0800
Subject: MouseMove . . . err?
In-Reply-To: <B695D071-3B2D-465D-B243-C6D362DBBB29@rcn.com>
Message-ID: <C5680204.3E2F1%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Colin Holgate wrote:

>> If all you want to do is move an object/s around with the mouse,
>> why not
>> just use the grab command?
> 
> The Help suggests that the mouse would need to be down, and over the
> thing you're grabbing, neither of which would be the case:
> 
> "You can only grab a control when the mouse pointer is within the
> control's rectangle at the time the mouse is clicked. If the mouse
> pointer is outside the control when the grab command is executed,
> nothing happens."

Yes, however, Richmond did not explain what he was trying to accomplish --
all he said was what he was doing was not behaving as expected.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design




From coiin at rcn.com  Fri Dec 12 14:57:23 2008
From: coiin at rcn.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:57:23 -0500
Subject: Size limits for posting
In-Reply-To: <045C68D3-25C9-4B6E-86EA-A952AEC47F44@rcn.com>
References: <cd1.41e2b526.36741a40@aol.com>
	<045C68D3-25C9-4B6E-86EA-A952AEC47F44@rcn.com>
Message-ID: <695507E7-78AC-47B4-94DA-2009ACF32F90@rcn.com>


On Dec 12, 2008, at 2:55 PM, Colin Holgate wrote:

> The email you just sent is only 3k. But I have seen my messages  
> taking a while to get to the list, so there may be another issue.

This one arrived quickly, perhaps something was fixed?




From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Fri Dec 12 15:11:12 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:11:12 +0100
Subject: Size limits for posting
In-Reply-To: <cd1.41e2b526.36741a40@aol.com>
References: <cd1.41e2b526.36741a40@aol.com>
Message-ID: <782FEF84-0B78-42BC-B82D-99C10D1C994B@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonsoir Craig,

There are two lists at Runrev (at least): use-revolution and Improve- 
revolution (for Enterprise users)
First one, the one you use, converts any html text sent to plain text  
but takes into account html text size: just select in your emailer  
'send as plain text' and you will able to send two or three Legal US/ 
A4 pages without problem.
Second one allows html (as seen by recipients) within the same limits  
of 15 KB.

Le 12 d?c. 08 ? 20:49, DunbarX at aol.com a ?crit :

> I keep running into a 15K limit for posting to the list, though the  
> length of
> my text is far smaller. Needs moderator (I think this is Heather)  
> approval to
> continue.   Anyone else see this? And is the length of the text  
> body the same
> as the size of the post?

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Dec 12 15:46:40 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:46:40 -0600
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for 
 kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c5683fc47bde@[192.168.1.105]>
Message-ID: <C56829D0.18054%kray@sonsothunder.com>


>> Maybe we need a synonym for "the ... of me" - how about something like "my"?
>> 
>> put my text into xx
>> set my hilite to true

Actually, SenseTalk (the xTalk that drives the Eggplant testing suite)
provides support for "my" as well as having extended xTalk to include
possessives, so you can say:

  set button 1's hilite to true

but it goes farther in defining custom "simple objects" on the fly that can
have properties or other objects nested within them; this is where
possessives make more sense:

  put (name: "Michael") into mike    -- create the "mike" object
  put a new object into property cat of mike  -- create a nested object
  set the name of mike's cat to "Fido"
  put mike's cat's name   -- puts "Fido"

As a side note, these "simple objects" are not "physical" objects like
buttons and fields, but more like Director's or AppleScript's property
lists; kind of like associative arrays, but can be addressed with
property-like statements.

It would be like doing this in a *fictitious* version of Rev that supported
this:

  put "Fido" into cat["name"]
  put cat into mike["cat"]
  put the name of the cat of mike

Anyway, just something to think about... SenseTalk has a lot of neat xTalk
features I'd love to see in Rev (date math, lists and property lists,
multiple chunks, methods of handling undelivered messages, etc.), but just
thought I'd mention possessives vs. "my"...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From DunbarX at aol.com  Fri Dec 12 15:55:02 2008
From: DunbarX at aol.com (DunbarX at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:55:02 EST
Subject: SpellCheck
Message-ID: <d5d.2bdd0b3f.367429a6@aol.com>

Here is a spellchecker of sorts. It will find certain possible valid words
stored in a hidden field "dict", where the misspelled test word either has
one char mistyped, one extra char somewhere, or if the test word is a string
one or two chars shorter than, but contained in a valid word. It is
implemented as a handler for single words. I also used my first pass at
creating a library version of Rinaldi's "fullFind".

I used a scrabble dictionary to populate field "dict", so no word is longer
than 15 chars. This was an old HC project ported over just to get practice
with Rev. I doubt it has any value except for the joy of scripting. Only the
very patient need proceed further...

on mouseUp
?? ask "Check which word?"
?? put it into toFind
?? find whole toFind in fld "dict"
?? if the result = "" then exit mouseup --word is correct
?? else
????? put fld "dict" into dict
?????
????? --find toFind within possibles up to 2 chars longer
????? put revFullFind(dict,toFind,"txt") into subset
????? repeat with y = number of lines of subset down to 1
???????? if abs(the length of line y of subset - the length of toFind) > 2
then delete line y of subset
????? end repeat
????? put subset into possibles
?????
????? --find possibles of same length as toFind but with one char incorrect
????? put the length of toFind into wordlength
????? repeat for each line theLine in dict
???????? if the length of theline = wordlength then put theline & return
after temp
????? end repeat
????? repeat for each line thisLine in temp
???????? put 0 into test
???????? repeat with y = 1 to the number of chars of thisLine
??????????? if char y of thisLine ? char y of toFind then add 1 to test
???????? end repeat
???????? if test = 1 then
??????????? put thisLine & return after possibles
???????? end if
????? end repeat
?????
????? --find possibles where toFind has an extra char
????? subtract 1 from wordLength
????? repeat for each line theLine in dict
???????? if the length of theLine = wordLength then put theLine & return
after oneCharLessList
????? end repeat
????? repeat with y = 1 to number of chars of toFind
???????? put toFind into temp
???????? delete char y of temp
???????? put temp & return after toCheck
????? end repeat
????? repeat for each line theLine in toCheck

????? end repeat
?? end if
?? answer possibles
end mouseUp

function revFullFind theText,theString,form
?? put "" into temp
?? put 0 into counter
??
?? repeat for each line theline in thetext
????? add 1 to counter
????? if theString is in theLine then
???????? if form = "linNum" then
??????????? put counter & return after temp
???????? else? if form = "txt" then
??????????? put theLine & return after temp
???????? end if
????? end if
?? end repeat
?? return temp
end revFullFind



**************
Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and 
favorite sites in one place.  Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&amp;
icid=aolcom40vanity&amp;ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)

From DunbarX at aol.com  Fri Dec 12 16:05:09 2008
From: DunbarX at aol.com (DunbarX at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:05:09 EST
Subject: Size limits for posting
Message-ID: <d14.3c503edd.36742c05@aol.com>

I see the problem now. I wrote a script in Rev, and when I tried to post it, 
it contained styled text typical of Rev's script look and feel. This extra 
overhead did not appear in a "get the length of myscript" but obviously was ten 
times larger. I made it into plain old text (in Rev) and it went fine. Thanks 
for the suggestions.

Craig Newman


**************
Make your life easier with all your friends, email, 
and favorite sites in one place.  Try it now. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&amp;icid=aolcom40vanity&amp;ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)


From DunbarX at aol.com  Fri Dec 12 16:20:08 2008
From: DunbarX at aol.com (DunbarX at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:20:08 EST
Subject: SpellCheck
Message-ID: <d55.4031ec96.36742f88@aol.com>

Script degraded a bit with all that processing. This hopefully works...

on mouseUp
?? ask "Check which word?"
?? put it into toFind
?? find whole toFind in fld "dict"
?? if the result = "" then exit mouseup --word is correct
?? else
????? put fld "dict" into dict
?????
????? --find toFind within possibles up to 2 chars longer
????? put revFullFind(dict,toFind,"txt") into subset
????? repeat with y = number of lines of subset down to 1
???????? if abs(the length of line y of subset - the length of toFind) > 2 
then delete line y of subset
????? end repeat
????? put subset into possibles
?????
????? --find possibles of same length as toFind but with one char incorrect
????? put the length of toFind into wordlength
????? repeat for each line theLine in dict
???????? if the length of theline = wordlength then put theline & return 
after temp
????? end repeat
????? repeat for each line thisLine in temp
???????? put 0 into test
???????? repeat with y = 1 to the number of chars of thisLine
??????????? if char y of thisLine ? char y of toFind then add 1 to test
???????? end repeat
???????? if test = 1 then
??????????? put thisLine & return after possibles
???????? end if
????? end repeat
?????
????? --find possibles where toFind has an extra char
????? subtract 1 from wordLength
????? repeat for each line theLine in dict
???????? if the length of theLine = wordLength then put theLine & return 
after oneCharLessList
????? end repeat
????? repeat with y = 1 to number of chars of toFind
???????? put toFind into temp
???????? delete char y of temp
???????? put temp & return after toCheck
????? end repeat
????? repeat for each line theLine in toCheck

????? end repeat
?? end if
?? answer possibles
end mouseUp

function revFullFind theText,theString,form
?? put "" into temp
?? put 0 into counter
??
?? repeat for each line theline in thetext
????? add 1 to counter
????? if theString is in theLine then
???????? if form = "linNum" then
??????????? put counter & return after temp
???????? else? if form = "txt" then
??????????? put theLine & return after temp
???????? end if
????? end if
?? end repeat
?? return temp
end revFullFind


**************
Make your life easier with all your friends, 
email, and favorite sites in one place.  Try it now. 
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&amp;icid=aolcom40vanity&amp;ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)

From geradamas at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 12 16:24:44 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:24:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MouseMove . . .  err?
Message-ID: <190444.9633.qm@web37508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

DunbarX wrote:

"Anyway, nothing personal, I assure you"

Not offended in the least by that; however . . . about the "English":-)

I am Scots!

This whole discussion arose because I had 3 little girls and 1 little 
boy beavering away at a test; so I was fiddling around with Runtime 
Revolution, having left my light reading at home. I just wanted to try 
the 4 buttons as an extension of using a GIF image as a faux cursor 
without having to muck around with custom cursors.

I thought it would be fun to have a 'flock' of objects (e.g. a mini swarm
of bees) that followed a fancy cursor (e.g. a flower) around; obviously
this would necessitate each member of the flock moving independently.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Fri Dec 12 16:30:35 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:30:35 +0100
Subject: SpellCheck
In-Reply-To: <d55.4031ec96.36742f88@aol.com>
References: <d55.4031ec96.36742f88@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C5B0BDB1-98AE-43F8-9B3A-4603A31FE1B6@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonsoir Craig,

Le 12 d?c. 08 ? 22:20, DunbarX at aol.com a ?crit :

> Script degraded a bit with all that processing. This hopefully  
> works...

Not tested your script but two helpful thoughts, I hope:

1. Having your dictionary in a field does not sounds so good: you  
should keep it in an external file, load it when needed in a global  
for instance and delete this global when done. This is for RAM usage.

2. You use answer dialogs: this does not sounds so good too from an  
ergonomic point of view. Probably could you check last word (when a  
space or a punctuation is typed) and underline it and/or change its  
color for instance. Then a pop up menu would display what you call  
'possibles' in your script and replace what the user typed if he  
chooses it.

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From francois.chaplais at mines-paristech.fr  Fri Dec 12 16:40:12 2008
From: francois.chaplais at mines-paristech.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_Chaplais?=)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:40:12 +0100
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons
In-Reply-To: <ghubpl$mlt$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <235102C8-B1A9-4BAA-BD3A-3D1F4095870E@wanadoo.fr><4be051070812111648u1b46f16ay6164800b0428c37a@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3C501C1-D26C-48AD-885A-AB2181D37F46@mines-paristech.fr>
	<ghubpl$mlt$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <540687E2-5C3B-4EA4-8ED3-254836F4BBF3@mines-paristech.fr>


Le 12 d?c. 08 ? 19:50, Bill Marriott a ?crit :

> If about 100x as many users end up using Revolution, it might be  
> possible
> one day to invest in, say, a Spanish variant and still have it  
> deemed an
> "xTalk." Despite their widespread usage I don't know of a similar  
> option for
> C++, Java, Ruby, Python, JavaScript, HTML, etc., which all use  
> snippets of
> English in their syntax. So, the teeming masses of children you  
> speak of
> will be in the same boat. Sorry but nowadays English is the  
> international
> language of business and technology.

I think you missed the point. Kids are not in business or technology.  
They are in childhood.

As far as educated adults (or teens) are concerned, I completely agree  
that, for better of worse, english is nowadays' lingua franca ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_franca 
  ).

cheers from Paris
	Fran?ois



From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 17:31:52 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:31:52 -0800
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons
In-Reply-To: <540687E2-5C3B-4EA4-8ED3-254836F4BBF3@mines-paristech.fr>
References: <235102C8-B1A9-4BAA-BD3A-3D1F4095870E@wanadoo.fr>
	<4be051070812111648u1b46f16ay6164800b0428c37a@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3C501C1-D26C-48AD-885A-AB2181D37F46@mines-paristech.fr>
	<ghubpl$mlt$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<540687E2-5C3B-4EA4-8ED3-254836F4BBF3@mines-paristech.fr>
Message-ID: <4be051070812121431oaba0857rfd456f0f763efaf9@mail.gmail.com>

Well, okay, true enough.   And I certainly wouldn't press Rev's natural
language leveraging to teach programming to a non-English-speaking child!
 But the original Slashdot post concerned young English-speaking children
and hence I thought Rev would be ideal (certainly better than pretty much
every other language being proposed).
But your point is well-taken.  I was thinking about that the other day and
wondered whether learning Rev would have a negative impact on speaking,
reading and writing the English language (or the other way around even).

Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com

On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Fran?ois Chaplais <
francois.chaplais at mines-paristech.fr> wrote:

>
> Le 12 d?c. 08 ? 19:50, Bill Marriott a ?crit :
>
>  If about 100x as many users end up using Revolution, it might be possible
>> one day to invest in, say, a Spanish variant and still have it deemed an
>> "xTalk." Despite their widespread usage I don't know of a similar option
>> for
>> C++, Java, Ruby, Python, JavaScript, HTML, etc., which all use snippets of
>> English in their syntax. So, the teeming masses of children you speak of
>> will be in the same boat. Sorry but nowadays English is the international
>> language of business and technology.
>>
>
> I think you missed the point. Kids are not in business or technology. They
> are in childhood.
>
> As far as educated adults (or teens) are concerned, I completely agree
> that, for better of worse, english is nowadays' lingua franca (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_franca ).
>
> cheers from Paris
>        Fran?ois
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From DunbarX at aol.com  Fri Dec 12 17:36:48 2008
From: DunbarX at aol.com (DunbarX at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:36:48 EST
Subject: SpellCheck
Message-ID: <bf0.3ff53ba1.36744180@aol.com>

Eric.

Right on all counts.

In HC I absolutely had to keep the dictionary in an external file and load as 
needed. TextEdit limits (30K) would not allow a field to hold the data.

I had a "spellCheck" handler run through the text and present all 
questionable words and their possible corrections in a list in an external window. Pretty 
much like spell checkers generally do. I am just starting to learn 
Transcript. I did not intend this to be pretty, in fact I was just trying to see if I 
can work this Rev thing at all.

I had tried to cover what I thought might be the most common spelling or 
typing mistakes. More work would be needed to cover transposed letters, or much 
more deviant misspellings. All three routines I used are pretty much brute force 
text crunching. I am trying to think of a way to find close or nearly colose 
text matches in a more elegant way; some sort of hash table where the numeric 
value of a word can be matched within a certain range of the numeric values of 
other words. The number of the beast. How do the grownups do it?

Craig Newman


> Not tested your script but two helpful thoughts, I hope:
> 
> 1. Having your dictionary in a field does not sounds so good: you?
> should keep it in an external file, load it when needed in a global?
> for instance and delete this global when done. This is for RAM usage.
> 
> 2. You use answer dialogs: this does not sounds so good too from an?
> ergonomic point of view. Probably could you check last word (when a?
> space or a punctuation is typed) and underline it and/or change its?
> color for instance. Then a pop up menu would display what you call?
> 'possibles' in your script and replace what the user typed if he?
> chooses it
> 


**************
Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and 
favorite sites in one place.  Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&amp;
icid=aolcom40vanity&amp;ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)


From DunbarX at aol.com  Fri Dec 12 17:41:49 2008
From: DunbarX at aol.com (DunbarX at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:41:49 EST
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_MouseMove_=2E_=2E_=2E=A0_err=3F?=
Message-ID: <d22.3190a683.367442ad@aol.com>

Richmond:

I understand about the English. I mean, look at Colin.

So it was a vernacular outrage only. Whew.

By the way, in the same vein, Americans might look askance at ..." I had 3 
little girls and 1 little
boy beavering away"...

Watch it.

Craig Newman


In a message dated 12/12/08 4:24:58 PM, geradamas at yahoo.com writes:


> 
> This whole discussion arose because I had 3 little girls and 1 little
> boy beavering away
> 




**************
Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and 
favorite sites in one place.  Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&amp;
icid=aolcom40vanity&amp;ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)


From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Fri Dec 12 20:36:00 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:36:00 -0500
Subject: MouseMove . . . err?
In-Reply-To: <C567F802.3E2E3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <C567F802.3E2E3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <997BE431-8422-4A48-B57B-87187735A756@mac.com>

Scott,

How do you implement a grab or move to constrain a grc horizontally  
within the bounds of another graphic while the mouse is down????


Thanks,


Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html





On Dec 12, 2008, at 2:14 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>
>> I suppose the really clever thing would be to put the 4 buttons  
>> together
>> in a group and then move the group around ????
>>
>> Ho, Ho, Ho . . .  Just did it:
>>
>> on mouseMove
>>  set the moveSpeed to 10000
>>  move grp "G1" to the mouseLoc
>> end mouseMove
>>
>> There is more than one way to skin a cat!
>
> If all you want to do is move an object/s around with the mouse, why  
> not
> just use the grab command?
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From niconiko at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 20:58:09 2008
From: niconiko at gmail.com (Nicolas Cueto)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 10:58:09 +0900
Subject: MouseMove . . . err?
In-Reply-To: <997BE431-8422-4A48-B57B-87187735A756@mac.com>
References: <C567F802.3E2E3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<997BE431-8422-4A48-B57B-87187735A756@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1e91b2b70812121758h13270787m7b8b671117100cb3@mail.gmail.com>

Tom,

> How do you implement a grab or move to constrain a grc horizontally within
> the bounds of another graphic while the mouse is down????

Sorry, I don't have a scripting solution. Rather,
a recommendation for a Rev plugin that does
what I think you're after: Malte Brill's "Animation
Engine" plugin, which is available for purchase
at the RunRev site:

http://www.runrev.com/products/related-software/animation-engine-2/

I rely on Malte's plugin anytime my stacks require
any kind of  motion control of images. Plus he
has always been immediately helpful whenever I
posted  a question on the forum associated with
the Animation Engine plugin.

--
Nicolas Cueto


From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Fri Dec 12 21:00:28 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:00:28 -0500
Subject: MouseMove . . . err?
In-Reply-To: <1e91b2b70812121758h13270787m7b8b671117100cb3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C567F802.3E2E3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<997BE431-8422-4A48-B57B-87187735A756@mac.com>
	<1e91b2b70812121758h13270787m7b8b671117100cb3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B0EEF8EF-3144-4E47-BADE-147951A6B620@mac.com>

Thanks,

I seem to remember a TM solution???

I don't know if I want the overhead of another library if a move will  
do it....


Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html





On Dec 12, 2008, at 8:58 PM, Nicolas Cueto wrote:

> Tom,
>
>> How do you implement a grab or move to constrain a grc horizontally  
>> within
>> the bounds of another graphic while the mouse is down????
>
> Sorry, I don't have a scripting solution. Rather,
> a recommendation for a Rev plugin that does
> what I think you're after: Malte Brill's "Animation
> Engine" plugin, which is available for purchase
> at the RunRev site:
>
> http://www.runrev.com/products/related-software/animation-engine-2/
>
> I rely on Malte's plugin anytime my stacks require
> any kind of  motion control of images. Plus he
> has always been immediately helpful whenever I
> posted  a question on the forum associated with
> the Animation Engine plugin.
>
> --
> Nicolas Cueto
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Fri Dec 12 22:20:29 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:20:29 -0500
Subject: MouseMove . . . err?
In-Reply-To: <B0EEF8EF-3144-4E47-BADE-147951A6B620@mac.com>
References: <C567F802.3E2E3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<997BE431-8422-4A48-B57B-87187735A756@mac.com>
	<1e91b2b70812121758h13270787m7b8b671117100cb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<B0EEF8EF-3144-4E47-BADE-147951A6B620@mac.com>
Message-ID: <2D8BCFA2-E359-4A59-9D0B-124748824066@mac.com>

I figured it out with the move command!!!

Thanks,

Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html


On Dec 12, 2008, at 9:00 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Thanks,
>
> I seem to remember a TM solution???
>
> I don't know if I want the overhead of another library if a move  
> will do it....
>
>
> On Dec 12, 2008, at 8:58 PM, Nicolas Cueto wrote:
>
>> Tom,
>>
>>> How do you implement a grab or move to constrain a grc  
>>> horizontally within
>>> the bounds of another graphic while the mouse is down????
>>
>> Sorry, I don't have a scripting solution. Rather,
>> a recommendation for a Rev plugin that does
>> what I think you're after: Malte Brill's "Animation
>> Engine" plugin, which is available for purchase
>> at the RunRev site:
>>
>> http://www.runrev.com/products/related-software/animation-engine-2/
>>
>> I rely on Malte's plugin anytime my stacks require
>> any kind of  motion control of images. Plus he
>> has always been immediately helpful whenever I
>> posted  a question on the forum associated with
>> the Animation Engine plugin.
>>
>> --
>> Nicolas Cueto


From mdswindell at cruzio.com  Fri Dec 12 22:29:25 2008
From: mdswindell at cruzio.com (Mark Swindell)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:29:25 -0800
Subject: Standalone Maker - delete settings and start fresh?
Message-ID: <A5AC1E44-47C3-48B1-B80D-74251C425FF4@cruzio.com>

I've got a stack I'm trying to build into a standalone, but it appears  
the standalone maker has got stuck somehow. There is a file locked  
into the "stacks" pane  that doesn't belong there.  How can I start  
over with a completely fresh set of preferences for a particular  
standalone build? 
  


From wjm at wjm.org  Fri Dec 12 22:41:49 2008
From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:41:49 -0500
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons
References: <235102C8-B1A9-4BAA-BD3A-3D1F4095870E@wanadoo.fr><4be051070812111648u1b46f16ay6164800b0428c37a@mail.gmail.com><C3C501C1-D26C-48AD-885A-AB2181D37F46@mines-paristech.fr><ghubpl$mlt$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<540687E2-5C3B-4EA4-8ED3-254836F4BBF3@mines-paristech.fr>
Message-ID: <ghvatu$84j$1@ger.gmane.org>

Fran?ois,

> I think you missed the point. Kids are not in business or technology. 
> They are in childhood.

I agree it would be nice if kids could learn to program computers in their 
native tongue. I was curious about this so I poked around on Google a little 
bit and found:

http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Non:English:based:programming:languages.htm

An excerpt:
==========

Known non-English-based programming languages:

Brainfuck - Minimalist programming language, created for the purpose of 
having a compiler fit in < 256 bytes (category 3)

FOCAL - Introduced in 1968 by Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC)'s Richard 
Merrill (and derived from JOSS) ?  (category 2)

HPL - Hebrew Programming Language (category 1)

hForth - A Forth system with an optional Korean keyword set

Lexico - A Spanish language based object-oriented, educational programming 
language based on the. NET Framework.

PILOT - a Computer Aided Instruction language, somewhat similar to LOGO 
(category 3)

Plankalk?l - Developed by German computer pioneer Konrad Zuse, who claimed 
to have developed it in the 1940s (category 1)

Var'aq - Based on the Klingon constructed language for television series 
Star Trek  (category 4)
==========

Now, which of these do you think is better than Revolution for teaching 
programming to young children? The Klingon one? 





From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Fri Dec 12 22:50:23 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:50:23 -0800
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons
In-Reply-To: <ghvatu$84j$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <235102C8-B1A9-4BAA-BD3A-3D1F4095870E@wanadoo.fr>
	<4be051070812111648u1b46f16ay6164800b0428c37a@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3C501C1-D26C-48AD-885A-AB2181D37F46@mines-paristech.fr>
	<ghubpl$mlt$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<540687E2-5C3B-4EA4-8ED3-254836F4BBF3@mines-paristech.fr>
	<ghvatu$84j$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4be051070812121950t7f4ec06h4afcfa111df3a5b@mail.gmail.com>

Bill et al.:

I was poking around in Slashdot's interviews section a couple of weeks ago.
Definitely not BrainFuck.  Not for kids of *any* primary language.  And NOT
because of the language's name, either ;-)

Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com

On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 7:41 PM, Bill Marriott <wjm at wjm.org> wrote:

> Fran?ois,
>
> > I think you missed the point. Kids are not in business or technology.
> > They are in childhood.
>
> I agree it would be nice if kids could learn to program computers in their
> native tongue. I was curious about this so I poked around on Google a
> little
> bit and found:
>
> http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Non:English:based:programming:languages.htm
>
> An excerpt:
> ==========
>
> Known non-English-based programming languages:
>
> Brainfuck - Minimalist programming language, created for the purpose of
> having a compiler fit in < 256 bytes (category 3)
>
> FOCAL - Introduced in 1968 by Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC)'s Richard
> Merrill (and derived from JOSS) ?  (category 2)
>
> HPL - Hebrew Programming Language (category 1)
>
> hForth - A Forth system with an optional Korean keyword set
>
> Lexico - A Spanish language based object-oriented, educational programming
> language based on the. NET Framework.
>
> PILOT - a Computer Aided Instruction language, somewhat similar to LOGO
> (category 3)
>
> Plankalk?l - Developed by German computer pioneer Konrad Zuse, who claimed
> to have developed it in the 1940s (category 1)
>
> Var'aq - Based on the Klingon constructed language for television series
> Star Trek  (category 4)
> ==========
>
> Now, which of these do you think is better than Revolution for teaching
> programming to young children? The Klingon one?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sat Dec 13 01:33:24 2008
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:33:24 -0800
Subject: MouseMove . . . err?
In-Reply-To: <2D8BCFA2-E359-4A59-9D0B-124748824066@mac.com>
Message-ID: <C5689734.3E313%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> How do you implement a grab or move to constrain a grc
> horizontally within
> the bounds of another graphic while the mouse is down????

The limitation of of the grab command is that no other commands/messages are
sent while the mouse is down and the grab is taking place.  So one can use a
custom drag routine to get around limitation.  See the Drag Sampler tutorial
in the Software section of my site, or execute the following in your Rev
message box:

 go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/site_files/downloads/drag_sampler.rev"

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design




From geradamas at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 13 03:26:57 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 00:26:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TT] Beavering Away . . .
Message-ID: <145133.75087.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

[TT] - Totally Tangential.

Ha, Ha, Ha . . .

When I was studying at SIU Carbondale I rushed into a teaching assistants'
meeting fresh from vacuuming the carpet at home and said:

"Sorry I'm late, I have just been hoovering . . ."

There was a deathly silence in the room!

My understanding supervisor (A Canadian) took me outside and told me
that 'hoovering' did not mean vacuum-cleaning in America.

Late, I was working in the married students' garden plots when a pleasant
woman from Wyoming asked me how I managed to break up the clods of earth 
so effectively. My reply; "I always use a hoe." was received in silence, and then she walked off, never to speak to me again.

In Britain, 'beavering away' means (or, maybe, meant, when I was at school) "working away extremely eagerly"; no doubt connected with "eager beaver" - which, no doubt, you North Americans will resemanticise as a
synonym for "loose woman".

Divided by a common language we may be; united by a love of programming in Runtime Revolution I hope we all are.

Welcome to the silly season !!!

Love, Richmond.
____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 13 03:33:39 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 00:33:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MouseMove . . . err?
Message-ID: <326591.61597.qm@web37501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Just changed the moveSpeed to 65535 and everything "worked a charm":

on mouseMove
  set the moveSpeed to 65535
  put item 1 of the mouseLoc into MISHKA1
   put item 2 of the mouseLoc into MISHKA2
   move btn "X1" to (MISHKA1 + 40), (MISHKA2 + 40)
   move btn "X2" to (MISHKA1 - 40), (MISHKA2 + 40)
   move btn "X3" to (MISHKA1 + 40), (MISHKA2 - 40)
   move btn "X4" to (MISHKA1 - 40), (MISHKA2 - 40)
end mouseMove

as couldn't be fagged [that verb was specially for Craig Newman] to
mess around with other solutions. It seems that this week my programming
has been particularly blessed by a fairy [ Ooo, Craig, another opportunity :) ] that hovers near my computer.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 13 03:41:04 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 00:41:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Editra
Message-ID: <144060.86454.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://editra.org/

really quite good; but the developer needs 'jabbing' about
Runtime Revolution.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 13 04:08:04 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 01:08:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: mouseLine
Message-ID: <179923.17063.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

When a field contains this in its script:

set the textColor of the mouseLine to "red"

it throws an error message, and doesn't work.

I wonder why . . . 

clickLine works perfectly.

so, I suppose my question is: What is 'mouseLine' for?

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From h at FlexibleLearning.com  Sat Dec 13 04:10:55 2008
From: h at FlexibleLearning.com (Hugh Senior)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 09:10:55 -0000
Subject: Desktop clipFile by D&D
In-Reply-To: <20081203180005.1720F48A492@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONKEJECBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>

I am looking at allowing users to drag and drop selected text to the desktop
(i.e. outside the Rev environment). Has anyone done this?

/H



From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Sat Dec 13 04:23:27 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 10:23:27 +0100
Subject: Desktop clipFile by D&D
In-Reply-To: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONKEJECBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>
References: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONKEJECBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>
Message-ID: <57CB77F4-BC16-4255-AD1C-94D8F250542F@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi Hugh,

Just select the text and drag it. It is a standard feature for all  
editable fields.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to  
discuss your custom software project!

On 13 dec 2008, at 10:10, Hugh Senior wrote:

> I am looking at allowing users to drag and drop selected text to the  
> desktop
> (i.e. outside the Rev environment). Has anyone done this?



From viktoras at ekoinf.net  Sat Dec 13 05:27:03 2008
From: viktoras at ekoinf.net (viktoras didziulis)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 12:27:03 +0200
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
 kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <8C28D0A1-B3B4-4634-95FC-ADC509DC8CF6@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <235102C8-B1A9-4BAA-BD3A-3D1F4095870E@wanadoo.fr>	<4be051070812111648u1b46f16ay6164800b0428c37a@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C28D0A1-B3B4-4634-95FC-ADC509DC8CF6@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <49438DF7.4010004@ekoinf.net>

Dave Cragg wrote:
>
> I'll play Devil's Advocate.
>
> There seems to be some assumptions about what is easier for a child. 
> One of these assumptions is that a "simple English-like syntax" is 
> simpler than other kinds of syntax. I wonder if that is not an adult 
> prejudice.
>
> Compare these two ways of representing properties:
>
> the text of me
> me.text


I should agree with Dave's point. Especially in countries, where English 
is not native language like Lithuania and Bulgaria ;-) or take the major 
part of Europe, where kids do not speak English yet, the assumption that 
English like language is easier to learn as a programming language is 
wrong. It might be true if it were Lithuanian-like, Polish-like, 
Russian-like, Czech-like, Finish-like, Bulgarian-like, Georgian-like or 
Chinese-like (outside Europe) though.

On the other, learning Revolution might help kids learn some English. 
That's a good point!

What we were taught at school was Fokal (sounds bad, and I doubt anyone 
on this list has heard anything about this :-) ), later Pascal, but as 
far as at that time PC was a very rare thing outside the school, I 
practiced most concepts of programming by writing programs for a 
programmable calculator MK-52 (likely not known outside the former ussr) 
and the language was somehow similar to assembly - sets of instructions, 
pushing and popping numbers from stack (memory, nothing in common with 
Revolution stacks), registers. So those who proposed assembly might well 
be right as well.. At the university we were taught Pascal/Delphi. Life 
forced to learn HTML/Javascript and finally Revolution RAD was a real 
discovery, but at that point I was not a kid anymore!.. So if kid is 
motivated to learn programming he will learn anything he has an easy 
access to.

So the question would be - do kids have easy access to Revolution ? 
Depends on their parents :-)..

Best regards!
Viktoras





From lyn.teyla at gmail.com  Sat Dec 13 05:30:39 2008
From: lyn.teyla at gmail.com (Lyn Teyla)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 05:30:39 -0500
Subject: A way to tell if standalone is currently suspended?
Message-ID: <E1LBRlf-0007nw-P4@tiger.speednoc.com>

Is there a way to tell (from within the standalone)
if a standalone is currently suspended (a different
app is in the foreground)?

Thanks,
Lyn


From francois.chaplais at mines-paristech.fr  Sat Dec 13 05:46:20 2008
From: francois.chaplais at mines-paristech.fr (=?utf-8?Q?Fran=C3=A7ois_Chaplais?=)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 11:46:20 +0100
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons
In-Reply-To: <ghvatu$84j$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <235102C8-B1A9-4BAA-BD3A-3D1F4095870E@wanadoo.fr><4be051070812111648u1b46f16ay6164800b0428c37a@mail.gmail.com><C3C501C1-D26C-48AD-885A-AB2181D37F46@mines-paristech.fr><ghubpl$mlt$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<540687E2-5C3B-4EA4-8ED3-254836F4BBF3@mines-paristech.fr>
	<ghvatu$84j$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <8130D950-DF5A-4BC8-B17C-A893564DE069@mines-paristech.fr>



Envoy? de mon iPhone

Le 13 d?c. 08 ? 04:41, "Bill Marriott" wrote
<snip>
>
> Now, which of these do you think is better than Revolution for  
> teaching
> programming to young children? The Klingon one?

This is obviously not a question.
I simply think that the very notion of programmg language is too  
narrow to fit the abilities of a young child. Fortunately enough, S.  
Jobs et al have shown that "programming" is not restricted to a Turing  
machine operating on a stream of ASCII characters.
As an example, my kids have very much enjoyed a "game" called the  
wonderful inventions of Pr Tim, where you assamble various "machine  
parts", some with physical counterparts and others being more  
abstract. This is programming in 2D, and higher dimensions would be  
certainly stimulating.
sent from my iPhone
Fran?ois

From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Sat Dec 13 05:51:56 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 11:51:56 +0100
Subject: A way to tell if standalone is currently suspended?
In-Reply-To: <E1LBRlf-0007nw-P4@tiger.speednoc.com>
References: <E1LBRlf-0007nw-P4@tiger.speednoc.com>
Message-ID: <5CE97CF0-9796-4471-9675-B4B246DFF3CE@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi Lyn,

An easy way to do this:

on suspend
   set the suspended of this stack to true
end susped

on resume
   set the suspended of this stack to false
end resume


...if the suspended of this stack then...

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to  
discuss your custom software project!

On 13 dec 2008, at 11:30, Lyn Teyla wrote:

> Is there a way to tell (from within the standalone)
> if a standalone is currently suspended (a different
> app is in the foreground)?
>
> Thanks,
> Lyn



From viktoras at ekoinf.net  Sat Dec 13 06:24:19 2008
From: viktoras at ekoinf.net (viktoras didziulis)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 13:24:19 +0200
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
 kids' programming language
Message-ID: <49439B63.1050407@ekoinf.net>

Dave Cragg wrote:
 >
 > I'll play Devil's Advocate.
 >
 > There seems to be some assumptions about what is easier for a child.
 > One of these assumptions is that a "simple English-like syntax" is
 > simpler than other kinds of syntax. I wonder if that is not an adult
 > prejudice.
 >
 > Compare these two ways of representing properties:
 >
 > the text of me
 > me.text


Sorry for possible double posting (my first attempt went in html and I 
hope it wont appear on this list :-) ).

I would like to agree with Dave's point. Especially in countries, where 
English is not native language or take the major part of Europe, where 
kids do not speak English yet, the assumption that English like language 
is easier to learn as a programming language is wrong. It might be true 
if it were Lithuanian-like, Polish-like, Russian-like, Czech-like, 
Finish-like, Bulgarian-like, Georgian-like or Chinese-like (outside 
Europe) though.
For example if we translate
put 3 into field "Boo" of card "Mano" of stack "Programa"  into correct 
Lithuanian it should look like
?d?k 3 ? kr?vos "Programa" kortos "Mano" lauk? "Boo"..
So similarity to whatever spoken language is completely not a point to 
the most of children on this Earth .

On the other hand, learning Revolution might help kids learn something 
about thinking in English. And this is a very good point!

What we were taught at school was FOCAL, I doubt anyone on this list has 
heard anything about this. Later Pascal, but in that time PC was a very 
rare thing outside the school. Those who were interested  practiced most 
concepts of programming by writing programs for  programmable 
calculators like MK-52, etc.. likely not known outside the former ussr, 
and the language was somehow similar to assembly - sets of instructions, 
pushing and popping numbers from stack (memory, nothing in common with 
Revolution stacks), registers. So people who propose assembly might be 
right as well.. At the university we were taught Pascal/Delphi again. 
Life forced to learn HTML/Javascript and finally Revolution RAD was a 
real discovery, but at that point I was 10 years past my childhood and 
already had my own money to spend for Revolution ;-). Conclusion: if 
anyone is motivated to learn programming he will choose something he has 
an easier access to.

Do kids have easy access to Revolution ? It depends on their parents I 
think...

Best regards!
Viktoras


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 13 06:36:10 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 03:36:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <16628.48135.qm@web37501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

viktoras didziulis wrote:

"I should agree with Dave's point. Especially in countries, where English 
is not native language like Lithuania and Bulgaria ;-) "

he is exactly right.

The only 2 things that can be said in RR's favour 
(as opposed to PASCAL and Co.) are:

1. the programming language can (but doesn't always!) resemble a 
real, spoken language.

2. objects 'walk around with their own code' (c.f. Visual Basic 5).

I teach an intro to RunRev (3 x 90 minutes) as part of a
"Summer of Fun" English course (sorry about the awful title,
but what else do you call that sort of course?)for kids who 
already have a fair bit of English. Without a modicum of English 
the kids would be lost.

As a experiment, I got BBC BASIC running inside some
BBC Micro emulators

[ http://www.stairwaytohell.com/index2.html ]

and got some kids going with that. Their only, initial
objection, was that they had become dependent on a GUI
and felt "funny" with a command line: after a few gruff
"Grow Ups" they got on with things. Now they preferred RR,
but only from the point of view that they could make
visual programs; they didn't really see the programming
language as particularly easier.

Of course if one wants one can go all the way to those
"programming languages" where all one does is drag building
blocks around a screen. However, my experience teaches me that while
kids can rapidly get a blood-rush to the brain by getting
working 'programlets', they learn little or no transferable
skills; take them from that and shove them in front of a machine
with RR, or BASIC, and they are stuck fast, back at ground zero.

What has to be admitted by the "I want it now, and preferably
with no effort at all" brigade is that everything comes at a price:
and I, for one, don't want to spend my old age in a world inhabited
by people who can't or won't make a mental effort for anything.

All the members of this Use-List have dragged themselves through the
learning curve of at least one programming language (err, what do you 
call it again; RevTalk, Revolution, Transcript, and so on); and, like it
or not, that is a necessary part of the process of understanding how
programming languages work. And, without that sort of understanding,
however "user-friendly" a language/RAD is, sooner or later one is
going to come up against a socking great mental wall.

I usually spend the first 60 minutes with the computers turned OFF,
and play around with lots of yoghurt pots and beans 
(the Container Metaphor); and talk a lot of rubbish about production
lines in factories. Plus, prior to that, throw slide-rules at the kids so
that Mathematics moves out of the computers and calculators into
their brains.

I am sick to death of people who go on
a course and then inform me they can program computers because they
can read their e-mail, type a letter in Word, and run up a spread-sheet
in Excel.

Frankly, 'programming' by dragging virtual LEGO blocks around is not
programming; unless, of course, you consider the ability to knock up
a power point presentation the peak of programming skills!

As every Bulgarian child, supposedly, is taught English at school (and
the 'supposedly' is how I make my money), there should not be a
particularly high barrier for teenagers to jump over with RR.

The barrier, in Bulgaria, comes from the fact that educational-method 
is still rooted in the 'swot-and-regurgitate' school of thought that
Britain abandoned in the 60s. This stifles the type of abstract
and creative thought that is needed for good programming (try and
make a concrete model of a for-next loop).

However, in Bulgaria there is hope, as education can move into the space
that in Britain (amongst other places points-west) was abandoned for
the effortless pap that now passes for education.

Sorry about the rant; but I do feel extremely strongly about the
above points.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 13 06:38:41 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 03:38:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
Message-ID: <919550.4439.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Reposted as forgot to title the posting - sorry, JRM.

viktoras didziulis wrote:

"I should agree with Dave's point. Especially in countries, where English 
is not native language like Lithuania and Bulgaria ;-) "

he is exactly right.

The only 2 things that can be said in RR's favour 
(as opposed to PASCAL and Co.) are:

1. the programming language can (but doesn't always!) resemble a 
real, spoken language.

2. objects 'walk around with their own code' (c.f. Visual Basic 5).

I teach an intro to RunRev (3 x 90 minutes) as part of a
"Summer of Fun" English course (sorry about the awful title,
but what else do you call that sort of course?)for kids who 
already have a fair bit of English. Without a modicum of English 
the kids would be lost.

As a experiment, I got BBC BASIC running inside some
BBC Micro emulators

[ http://www.stairwaytohell.com/index2.html ]

and got some kids going with that. Their only, initial
objection, was that they had become dependent on a GUI
and felt "funny" with a command line: after a few gruff
"Grow Ups" they got on with things. Now they preferred RR,
but only from the point of view that they could make
visual programs; they didn't really see the programming
language as particularly easier.

Of course if one wants one can go all the way to those
"programming languages" where all one does is drag building
blocks around a screen. However, my experience teaches me that while
kids can rapidly get a blood-rush to the brain by getting
working 'programlets', they learn little or no transferable
skills; take them from that and shove them in front of a machine
with RR, or BASIC, and they are stuck fast, back at ground zero.

What has to be admitted by the "I want it now, and preferably
with no effort at all" brigade is that everything comes at a price:
and I, for one, don't want to spend my old age in a world inhabited
by people who can't or won't make a mental effort for anything.

All the members of this Use-List have dragged themselves through the
learning curve of at least one programming language (err, what do you 
call it again; RevTalk, Revolution, Transcript, and so on); and, like it
or not, that is a necessary part of the process of understanding how
programming languages work. And, without that sort of understanding,
however "user-friendly" a language/RAD is, sooner or later one is
going to come up against a socking great mental wall.

I usually spend the first 60 minutes with the computers turned OFF,
and play around with lots of yoghurt pots and beans 
(the Container Metaphor); and talk a lot of rubbish about production
lines in factories. Plus, prior to that, throw slide-rules at the kids so
that Mathematics moves out of the computers and calculators into
their brains.

I am sick to death of people who go on
a course and then inform me they can program computers because they
can read their e-mail, type a letter in Word, and run up a spread-sheet
in Excel.

Frankly, 'programming' by dragging virtual LEGO blocks around is not
programming; unless, of course, you consider the ability to knock up
a power point presentation the peak of programming skills!

As every Bulgarian child, supposedly, is taught English at school (and
the 'supposedly' is how I make my money), there should not be a
particularly high barrier for teenagers to jump over with RR.

The barrier, in Bulgaria, comes from the fact that educational-method 
is still rooted in the 'swot-and-regurgitate' school of thought that
Britain abandoned in the 60s. This stifles the type of abstract
and creative thought that is needed for good programming (try and
make a concrete model of a for-next loop).

However, in Bulgaria there is hope, as education can move into the space
that in Britain (amongst other places points-west) was abandoned for
the effortless pap that now passes for education.

Sorry about the rant; but I do feel extremely strongly about the
above points.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From bvg at mac.com  Sat Dec 13 07:28:22 2008
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 13:28:22 +0100
Subject: MouseMove . . .  err?
In-Reply-To: <190444.9633.qm@web37508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <190444.9633.qm@web37508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8B94B44D-B441-4C7F-873A-45746030B53E@mac.com>

All this objects following mouse talk reminded me of one of my all  
time favourite stacks:

Lemmings by Scott Rossi

Unfortunately it's not on Rev Online, and the entry on RevNet points  
into the void...



Bj?rnke
Who, if asked, will insist that ellipses will make people do things.



-- 

official ChatRev page:
http://bjoernke.com/runrev/chatrev.php

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://bjoernke.com/stacks/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev"



From Andre.Bisseret at inria.fr  Sat Dec 13 08:54:59 2008
From: Andre.Bisseret at inria.fr (Andre.Bisseret)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 14:54:59 +0100
Subject: mouseLine
In-Reply-To: <179923.17063.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <179923.17063.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FD630A72-94D7-4790-929E-53EA2C47D481@inria.fr>


Le 13 d?c. 08 ? 10:08, Richmond Mathewson a ?crit :

> When a field contains this in its script:
>
> set the textColor of the mouseLine to "red"
>
> it throws an error message, and doesn't work.
>
> I wonder why . . .
>
> clickLine works perfectly.
>
> so, I suppose my question is: What is 'mouseLine' for?
>
> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

hello Richmond,
For trials, I wrote the following handler in the the script of a field  
(lockText true) :

ON mouseUp
     IF the textcolor of the mouseline is "255,0,0" THEN -- here "red"  
instead of "255,0,0" does not work !
     set the textcolor of the mouseline to "black"
     ELSE
     set the textcolor of the mouseline to "red"
     END IF
END mouseUp

It is running well (Rev 3.0 on Mac 10.5.5)

Best regards from Grenoble
Andr?





From B.Cornaz at gmx.net  Sat Dec 13 10:31:39 2008
From: B.Cornaz at gmx.net (Beat Cornaz)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 16:31:39 +0100
Subject: Core Midi
Message-ID: <b11f363a57104d3ac034cd0a848aae49@gmx.net>

Thanks Mark & Ren? for your reply.

Sorry for not answering sooner. Sometimes things happen.


 > Ren? wrote :
 > I am interesed with this question also, but I can't find your reply
 > in the Dutch forum

I replied some days ago on the dutch forum, as well directly to you 
Mark.

I will reply to you Ren? off list.

If there are more people who would like to get involved in getting

real time Midi data from and to Revolution going,

please contact me and I will try to coordinate
the thing. I have to say, that I will be in Switzerland for the next 4 
weeks
and only be able to check my mail on a weekly basis. After that, I'll 
be back on my spot.

best, Beat




From pmbrig at gmail.com  Sat Dec 13 11:45:28 2008
From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter Brigham)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 11:45:28 -0500
Subject: Rev printing woes in Leopard
Message-ID: <207D9362-BD8B-4645-93EA-EFC996D5818C@gmail.com>

OK, so I had this iBook G4 (running Panther) that died, but managed to  
get all my data over to my new MacBook Intel running OSX 10.5. I have  
a stack system I use for my practice, which prints various items using  
"print card into rect" from hidden stacks that are filled by script.  
Very handy, very spiffy. I can print out beautifully formatted  
prescriptions, notes, addressed envelopes, copay receipts, forms, etc.  
Now suddenly on my new machine, it takes forever for the printer to  
respond -- up to 1 full minute for Rev to complete sending data to the  
printer (as shown in the printer status window), and up to another  
full minute after the data is sent for the printer to start churning  
out a page.

This is almost a show-stopper for me, since I sometimes have to print  
out 4-5 prescriptions and a receipt while the patient is in my office.  
I'm using a Brother MFC-8220 laserjet, and have had zero problems with  
this printer in several years up to now. When I print from other apps  
there is a delay also compared to my old setup, but it's only about 20  
seconds. I'm using the latest Brother printer driver. I have contacted  
Brother for advice, but the problem is worst with Rev, and that's  
where I need reasonable speed the most.

Since I use a laptop, I use about 5 different printers during various  
parts of my week. My stack system stores the user-chosen  
printersettings in a custom prop and sets the printersettings to this  
just before printing. I have re-stored the printer settings for the  
Brother printer after downloading the latest driver, figuring maybe  
Rev was sending the old 10.4 driver settings to the OS, but this  
doesn't help. Printing from my stack to another printer (an HP AIO at  
home) is a little slow but nothing like with the Brother machine. And  
printing from my stack to a cheap little HP inkjet printer at another  
venue results in the paper shuttling back and forth in the printer  
feeder and then successfully printing most of the page but stopping  
about 0.2 inches before the bottom of the page content and leaving the  
paper in the printer, half sticking out. (Which is really weird.)

I don't really care about the HP inkjet problem, it's printing on the  
Brother I have to fix, since my private practice where I use my stack  
system has the Brother machine. But the strange behavior of the inkjet  
in addition to the Brother points more to some wrinkle in Rev printing  
or my stack printing setup that I'm missing. Any ideas? I need to get  
this working again, and I'm getting more and more desperate.

Peter M. Brigham
pmbrig at gmail.com


From rmicout at online.fr  Sat Dec 13 12:10:58 2008
From: rmicout at online.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Micout?=)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 18:10:58 +0100
Subject: Core Midi
In-Reply-To: <b11f363a57104d3ac034cd0a848aae49@gmx.net>
References: <b11f363a57104d3ac034cd0a848aae49@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <98857972-4496-4E91-94DE-3C7806534210@online.fr>

Beat,
What name for musician !
Thank you for your answer. My english is not very good, sorry :-)...  
But my french is better !
I am working on a generative musical instrument (named "Exagofon")  
with Revolution (only, no C, C++ or Xcode... too much for my brain !)  
and today it work with the Quicktime instruments, but, like you, I  
wish play (live) Midi (in/out) via USB and Revolution on Macintosh.
I am working also on several musical projects : Acordofon, Ritmofon,  
Yasarofon, Rizomofon, Exagovox.
Bons souvenirs de Paris
Ren?
Le 13 d?c. 08 ? 16:31, Beat Cornaz a ?crit :

> Thanks Mark & Ren? for your reply.
>
> Sorry for not answering sooner. Sometimes things happen.
>
>
> > Ren? wrote :
> > I am interesed with this question also, but I can't find your reply
> > in the Dutch forum
>
> I replied some days ago on the dutch forum, as well directly to you  
> Mark.
>
> I will reply to you Ren? off list.
>
> If there are more people who would like to get involved in getting
>
> real time Midi data from and to Revolution going,
>
> please contact me and I will try to coordinate
> the thing. I have to say, that I will be in Switzerland for the  
> next 4 weeks
> and only be able to check my mail on a weekly basis. After that,  
> I'll be back on my spot.
>
> best, Beat
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From coiin at rcn.com  Sat Dec 13 12:14:01 2008
From: coiin at rcn.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 12:14:01 -0500
Subject: [TT] Beavering Away . . .
In-Reply-To: <145133.75087.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <145133.75087.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C45A5F67-39F1-4F74-AB89-FF141F5666B2@rcn.com>


On Dec 13, 2008, at 3:26 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> Late, I was working in the married students' garden plots when a  
> pleasant
> woman from Wyoming asked me how I managed to break up the clods of  
> earth
> so effectively. My reply; "I always use a hoe." was received in  
> silence, and then she walked off, never to speak to me again.

At those times when your favored implement was in use, and you decided  
to have a smoke break, your explanation of "if I can't get a hoe, I  
just go out for a fag", would have caused great alarm.




From pepetoo at cox.net  Sat Dec 13 12:16:03 2008
From: pepetoo at cox.net (Joe Lewis Wilkins)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 09:16:03 -0800
Subject: Rev printing woes in Leopard
In-Reply-To: <207D9362-BD8B-4645-93EA-EFC996D5818C@gmail.com>
References: <207D9362-BD8B-4645-93EA-EFC996D5818C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6F521A8D-5082-400F-A424-676305AB103C@cox.net>

Hi Peter,

The only difference in what you're doing and what I'm doing (except  
for the nature of the actual output) is that you're having to store  
the print parameters for "several" different printers in a custom  
prop, and your program has to sort all of this out whenever you need  
to print. I think this is your bottle-neck, so...

I would suggest that you insert a method, whether menu or radio- 
button, so that you can identify the printer you're on at the time and  
provide the appropriate parameters at that time. I don't know if  
you're using a standalone or stacks, but making this change should be  
easy enough for you, and will provide a method by which you may even  
recognize "other printers" when the need finally arises.

We are printing the same way, using "print card into rect", though  
mine is on a Intel MacPro under Leopard on an Epson printer, and in  
full color.


HTH,

Joe Wilkins

On Dec 13, 2008, at 8:45 AM, Peter Brigham wrote:

> OK, so I had this iBook G4 (running Panther) that died, but managed  
> to get all my data over to my new MacBook Intel running OSX 10.5. I  
> have a stack system I use for my practice, which prints various  
> items using "print card into rect" from hidden stacks that are  
> filled by script. Very handy, very spiffy. I can print out  
> beautifully formatted prescriptions, notes, addressed envelopes,  
> copay receipts, forms, etc. Now suddenly on my new machine, it takes  
> forever for the printer to respond -- up to 1 full minute for Rev to  
> complete sending data to the printer (as shown in the printer status  
> window), and up to another full minute after the data is sent for  
> the printer to start churning out a page.
>
> This is almost a show-stopper for me, since I sometimes have to  
> print out 4-5 prescriptions and a receipt while the patient is in my  
> office. I'm using a Brother MFC-8220 laserjet, and have had zero  
> problems with this printer in several years up to now. When I print  
> from other apps there is a delay also compared to my old setup, but  
> it's only about 20 seconds. I'm using the latest Brother printer  
> driver. I have contacted Brother for advice, but the problem is  
> worst with Rev, and that's where I need reasonable speed the most.
>
> Since I use a laptop, I use about 5 different printers during  
> various parts of my week. My stack system stores the user-chosen  
> printersettings in a custom prop and sets the printersettings to  
> this just before printing. I have re-stored the printer settings for  
> the Brother printer after downloading the latest driver, figuring  
> maybe Rev was sending the old 10.4 driver settings to the OS, but  
> this doesn't help. Printing from my stack to another printer (an HP  
> AIO at home) is a little slow but nothing like with the Brother  
> machine. And printing from my stack to a cheap little HP inkjet  
> printer at another venue results in the paper shuttling back and  
> forth in the printer feeder and then successfully printing most of  
> the page but stopping about 0.2 inches before the bottom of the page  
> content and leaving the paper in the printer, half sticking out.  
> (Which is really weird.)
>
> I don't really care about the HP inkjet problem, it's printing on  
> the Brother I have to fix, since my private practice where I use my  
> stack system has the Brother machine. But the strange behavior of  
> the inkjet in addition to the Brother points more to some wrinkle in  
> Rev printing or my stack printing setup that I'm missing. Any ideas?  
> I need to get this working again, and I'm getting more and more  
> desperate.
>
> Peter M. Brigham
> pmbrig at gmail.com








From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Dec 13 13:31:08 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 12:31:08 -0600
Subject: Standalone Maker - delete settings and start fresh?
In-Reply-To: <A5AC1E44-47C3-48B1-B80D-74251C425FF4@cruzio.com>
References: <A5AC1E44-47C3-48B1-B80D-74251C425FF4@cruzio.com>
Message-ID: <4943FF6C.50509@hyperactivesw.com>

Mark Swindell wrote:
> I've got a stack I'm trying to build into a standalone, but it appears 
> the standalone maker has got stuck somehow. There is a file locked into 
> the "stacks" pane  that doesn't belong there.  How can I start over with 
> a completely fresh set of preferences for a particular standalone build? 

In the View menu (or in Preferences) turn on "Revolution UI elements in 
lists." Open the inspector for your mainstack, and look at the custom 
properties pane.

In the bottom popup, choose the "cRevStandaloneSettings" property set 
and delete it. Save your stack.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From williamdesmet at gmail.com  Sat Dec 13 13:51:01 2008
From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 19:51:01 +0100
Subject: Is it possible to use 'sheet' stack and then go to a specific card
	of that stack?
Message-ID: <b016f13e0812131051u551aea68l6e09dcb81180f39d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi there,
I wonder if it is possible to use 'sheet' stack and then go to a specific
card of that stack?
I call the cards of a stack in a field and when I click on it it will open
the card. This works fine!
Because I like 'sheet' stack on OSX I'd like to combine both.
Is this possible?

When I use the code below it doesn't work:

then put the value of the clickline into tData

  then sheet stack tNaam

  then go card tData of stack tNaam



Greetings,


William 'MacSmet' de Smet


From mdswindell at cruzio.com  Sat Dec 13 14:12:58 2008
From: mdswindell at cruzio.com (Mark Swindell)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 11:12:58 -0800
Subject: Standalone Maker - delete settings and start fresh?
In-Reply-To: <4943FF6C.50509@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <A5AC1E44-47C3-48B1-B80D-74251C425FF4@cruzio.com>
	<4943FF6C.50509@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <672821DE-9847-4FCA-A5B0-DE953E36AC73@cruzio.com>

Thank you very much.

Mark

On Dec 13, 2008, at 10:31 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Mark Swindell wrote:
>> I've got a stack I'm trying to build into a standalone, but it  
>> appears the standalone maker has got stuck somehow. There is a file  
>> locked into the "stacks" pane  that doesn't belong there.  How can  
>> I start over with a completely fresh set of preferences for a  
>> particular standalone build?
>
> In the View menu (or in Preferences) turn on "Revolution UI elements  
> in lists." Open the inspector for your mainstack, and look at the  
> custom properties pane.
>
> In the bottom popup, choose the "cRevStandaloneSettings" property  
> set and delete it. Save your stack.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From paulgabel at comcast.net  Sat Dec 13 15:52:02 2008
From: paulgabel at comcast.net (Paul Gabel)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 12:52:02 -0800
Subject: Is it possible to use 'sheet' stack and then go to a specific
	card of that stack?
In-Reply-To: <b016f13e0812131051u551aea68l6e09dcb81180f39d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b016f13e0812131051u551aea68l6e09dcb81180f39d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FF0AABC7-AE81-4E3F-860D-AF0266A87FBB@comcast.net>

William:

Can you put everything that you would have put on different cards on  
the sheet stack into groups on card 1 of the sheet stack, then show  
and hide the groups?

Paul Gabel

---------------
On Dec 13, 2008, at 10:51 AM, William de Smet wrote:

> Hi there,
> I wonder if it is possible to use 'sheet' stack and then go to a  
> specific
> card of that stack?
> I call the cards of a stack in a field and when I click on it it  
> will open
> the card. This works fine!
> Because I like 'sheet' stack on OSX I'd like to combine both.
> Is this possible?
>
> When I use the code below it doesn't work:
>
> then put the value of the clickline into tData
>
>  then sheet stack tNaam
>
>  then go card tData of stack tNaam
>
>
>
> Greetings,
>
>
> William 'MacSmet' de Smet
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From paulgabel at comcast.net  Sat Dec 13 15:54:43 2008
From: paulgabel at comcast.net (Paul Gabel)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 12:54:43 -0800
Subject: Is it possible to use 'sheet' stack and then go to a specific
	card of that stack?
In-Reply-To: <b016f13e0812131051u551aea68l6e09dcb81180f39d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b016f13e0812131051u551aea68l6e09dcb81180f39d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1CAD4D6-3394-4525-9202-E02DA6BF43B5@comcast.net>

William:

add to what I just wrote: ... using a preOpenCard or preOpenStack  
handler.


On Dec 13, 2008, at 10:51 AM, William de Smet wrote:

> Hi there,
> I wonder if it is possible to use 'sheet' stack and then go to a  
> specific
> card of that stack?
> I call the cards of a stack in a field and when I click on it it  
> will open
> the card. This works fine!
> Because I like 'sheet' stack on OSX I'd like to combine both.
> Is this possible?
>
> When I use the code below it doesn't work:
>
> then put the value of the clickline into tData
>
>  then sheet stack tNaam
>
>  then go card tData of stack tNaam
>
>
>
> Greetings,
>
>
> William 'MacSmet' de Smet
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From kkaufman at snet.net  Sat Dec 13 16:00:29 2008
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 16:00:29 -0500
Subject: Core Midi
Message-ID: <6B4039D7-1315-442D-8736-47B41B9D6180@snet.net>

Here's some speculation:
If the appropriate port can be selected, then I would think that  
Revolution is capable of streaming the data.  The real challenge might  
be the synchronization methods, such as MTC (MIDI Time Code) and SMPTE.

A more recent development:
How about RTP-MIDI? This looks promising, and I would imagine that  
Apple has a detailed reference for the specification. In brief:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDI#RTP-MIDI_Transport_Protocol

-Kurt


From h at FlexibleLearning.com  Sat Dec 13 16:06:43 2008
From: h at FlexibleLearning.com (Hugh Senior)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 21:06:43 -0000
Subject: Desktop clipFile by D&D
In-Reply-To: <20081213180006.1146648A387@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONAEJGCBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>

Hi Mark,

Not here it doesn't... Selecting text in a field and simply draging to the
desktop has no effect. I am looking for a text file to be created.

/H

> Hi Hugh,
>
> Just select the text and drag it. It is a standard feature for all
> editable fields.

On 13 dec 2008, at 10:10, Hugh Senior wrote:

> I am looking at allowing users to drag and drop selected text to the
> desktop
> (i.e. outside the Rev environment). Has anyone done this?



From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Sat Dec 13 16:28:47 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 22:28:47 +0100
Subject: Desktop clipFile by D&D
In-Reply-To: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONAEJGCBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>
References: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONAEJGCBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>
Message-ID: <E45861BD-7F9C-4B2D-8CB2-4FF476C198CB@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi Hugh,

On the Mac, text clippings are created automatically. I guess you are  
on Windows. I believe that the new drag and drop commands make it  
possible to retrieve the dragDestination and create a text file by  
means of a script, using this dragDestination. I don't know whether  
Windows is able to do this by itself and I haven't created a text file  
after a D&D myself yet.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to  
discuss your custom software project!

On 13 dec 2008, at 22:06, Hugh Senior wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> Not here it doesn't... Selecting text in a field and simply draging  
> to the
> desktop has no effect. I am looking for a text file to be created.
>
> /H
>
>> Hi Hugh,
>>
>> Just select the text and drag it. It is a standard feature for all
>> editable fields.
>
> On 13 dec 2008, at 10:10, Hugh Senior wrote:
>
>> I am looking at allowing users to drag and drop selected text to the
>> desktop
>> (i.e. outside the Rev environment). Has anyone done this?



From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Sat Dec 13 19:36:32 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 16:36:32 -0800
Subject: [TT] Beavering Away . . .
In-Reply-To: <145133.75087.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <145133.75087.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4be051070812131636t70404593r2e0b5390b893122c@mail.gmail.com>

Ummmm.... I'm feeling more stupid than usual. What exactly does "hoovering"
mean in the US?
And how long ago was this heaux conversation?  (yes, I've seen it spelt that
way).

Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com

On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Richmond Mathewson <geradamas at yahoo.com>wrote:

> [TT] - Totally Tangential.
>
> Ha, Ha, Ha . . .
>
> When I was studying at SIU Carbondale I rushed into a teaching assistants'
> meeting fresh from vacuuming the carpet at home and said:
>
> "Sorry I'm late, I have just been hoovering . . ."
>
> There was a deathly silence in the room!
>
> My understanding supervisor (A Canadian) took me outside and told me
> that 'hoovering' did not mean vacuum-cleaning in America.
>
> Late, I was working in the married students' garden plots when a pleasant
> woman from Wyoming asked me how I managed to break up the clods of earth
> so effectively. My reply; "I always use a hoe." was received in silence,
> and then she walked off, never to speak to me again.
>
> In Britain, 'beavering away' means (or, maybe, meant, when I was at school)
> "working away extremely eagerly"; no doubt connected with "eager beaver" -
> which, no doubt, you North Americans will resemanticise as a
> synonym for "loose woman".
>
> Divided by a common language we may be; united by a love of programming in
> Runtime Revolution I hope we all are.
>
> Welcome to the silly season !!!
>
> Love, Richmond.
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life
> Cycle.
> ____________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From nealk3nc at gmail.com  Sat Dec 13 19:38:22 2008
From: nealk3nc at gmail.com (Neal Campbell)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 19:38:22 -0500
Subject: [TT] Beavering Away . . .
In-Reply-To: <4be051070812131636t70404593r2e0b5390b893122c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <145133.75087.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4be051070812131636t70404593r2e0b5390b893122c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <325413300812131638x6ef7a5e2s31dd5647a272ad0d@mail.gmail.com>

You must not have read Fear of Flying in the 70s! If you do not know
what it means, more than likely you do not want to know.

Best regards
Neal
Neal Campbell
Abroham Neal Software
Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux
(540) 242 0911
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Try Spot for OS X, the intelligent DXCluster Client at
www.abrohamnealsoftware.com -  $15.99
-------------------------------------------------
For a great dog book, visit www.abrohamneal.com
-------------------------------------------------
See the FlexRadio Systems Flex-5000a in
action at www.flex-videos.com




On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 7:36 PM, Judy Perry <katheryn.swynford at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ummmm.... I'm feeling more stupid than usual. What exactly does "hoovering"
> mean in the US?
> And how long ago was this heaux conversation?  (yes, I've seen it spelt that
> way).
>
> Judy
> http://revined.blogspot.com
>
> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Richmond Mathewson <geradamas at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>> [TT] - Totally Tangential.
>>
>> Ha, Ha, Ha . . .
>>
>> When I was studying at SIU Carbondale I rushed into a teaching assistants'
>> meeting fresh from vacuuming the carpet at home and said:
>>
>> "Sorry I'm late, I have just been hoovering . . ."
>>
>> There was a deathly silence in the room!
>>
>> My understanding supervisor (A Canadian) took me outside and told me
>> that 'hoovering' did not mean vacuum-cleaning in America.
>>
>> Late, I was working in the married students' garden plots when a pleasant
>> woman from Wyoming asked me how I managed to break up the clods of earth
>> so effectively. My reply; "I always use a hoe." was received in silence,
>> and then she walked off, never to speak to me again.
>>
>> In Britain, 'beavering away' means (or, maybe, meant, when I was at school)
>> "working away extremely eagerly"; no doubt connected with "eager beaver" -
>> which, no doubt, you North Americans will resemanticise as a
>> synonym for "loose woman".
>>
>> Divided by a common language we may be; united by a love of programming in
>> Runtime Revolution I hope we all are.
>>
>> Welcome to the silly season !!!
>>
>> Love, Richmond.
>> ____________________________________________________________
>>
>> A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life
>> Cycle.
>> ____________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 13 20:22:33 2008
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Petrides, M.D. Marian)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 19:22:33 -0600
Subject: [TT] Beavering Away . . .
In-Reply-To: <325413300812131638x6ef7a5e2s31dd5647a272ad0d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <145133.75087.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4be051070812131636t70404593r2e0b5390b893122c@mail.gmail.com>
	<325413300812131638x6ef7a5e2s31dd5647a272ad0d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CC5839B2-E3F6-4FD9-B51F-F19096763158@earthlink.net>

Oh, please, don't tantalize us that way!!!


On Dec 13, 2008, at 6:38 PM, Neal Campbell wrote:

> You must not have read Fear of Flying in the 70s! If you do not know
> what it means, more than likely you do not want to know.
>
> Best regards
> Neal
> Neal Campbell
> Abroham Neal Software
> Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux
> (540) 242 0911
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Try Spot for OS X, the intelligent DXCluster Client at
> www.abrohamnealsoftware.com -  $15.99
> -------------------------------------------------
> For a great dog book, visit www.abrohamneal.com
> -------------------------------------------------
> See the FlexRadio Systems Flex-5000a in
> action at www.flex-videos.com
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 7:36 PM, Judy Perry <katheryn.swynford at gmail.com 
> > wrote:
>> Ummmm.... I'm feeling more stupid than usual. What exactly does  
>> "hoovering"
>> mean in the US?
>> And how long ago was this heaux conversation?  (yes, I've seen it  
>> spelt that
>> way).
>>
>> Judy
>> http://revined.blogspot.com
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Richmond Mathewson <geradamas at yahoo.com 
>> >wrote:
>>
>>> [TT] - Totally Tangential.
>>>
>>> Ha, Ha, Ha . . .
>>>
>>> When I was studying at SIU Carbondale I rushed into a teaching  
>>> assistants'
>>> meeting fresh from vacuuming the carpet at home and said:
>>>
>>> "Sorry I'm late, I have just been hoovering . . ."
>>>
>>> There was a deathly silence in the room!
>>>
>>> My understanding supervisor (A Canadian) took me outside and told me
>>> that 'hoovering' did not mean vacuum-cleaning in America.
>>>
>>> Late, I was working in the married students' garden plots when a  
>>> pleasant
>>> woman from Wyoming asked me how I managed to break up the clods of  
>>> earth
>>> so effectively. My reply; "I always use a hoe." was received in  
>>> silence,
>>> and then she walked off, never to speak to me again.
>>>
>>> In Britain, 'beavering away' means (or, maybe, meant, when I was  
>>> at school)
>>> "working away extremely eagerly"; no doubt connected with "eager  
>>> beaver" -
>>> which, no doubt, you North Americans will resemanticise as a
>>> synonym for "loose woman".
>>>
>>> Divided by a common language we may be; united by a love of  
>>> programming in
>>> Runtime Revolution I hope we all are.
>>>
>>> Welcome to the silly season !!!
>>>
>>> Love, Richmond.
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>
>>> A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development  
>>> Life
>>> Cycle.
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From noelf at nomigraphics.com  Sat Dec 13 20:43:39 2008
From: noelf at nomigraphics.com (Noel)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 18:43:39 -0700
Subject: [TT] Beavering Away . . .
In-Reply-To: <CC5839B2-E3F6-4FD9-B51F-F19096763158@earthlink.net>
References: <145133.75087.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4be051070812131636t70404593r2e0b5390b893122c@mail.gmail.com>
	<325413300812131638x6ef7a5e2s31dd5647a272ad0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<CC5839B2-E3F6-4FD9-B51F-F19096763158@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <0MKpCa-1LBg1H3IZM-0001Kk@mrelay.perfora.net>

For those curious folks :)

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hoovering

  - Noel

At 06:22 PM 12/13/2008, you wrote:
>Oh, please, don't tantalize us that way!!!
>
>
>On Dec 13, 2008, at 6:38 PM, Neal Campbell wrote:
>
>>You must not have read Fear of Flying in the 70s! If you do not know
>>what it means, more than likely you do not want to know.
>>
>>Best regards
>>Neal
>>Neal Campbell
>>Abroham Neal Software
>>Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux
>>(540) 242 0911
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Try Spot for OS X, the intelligent DXCluster Client at
>>www.abrohamnealsoftware.com -  $15.99
>>-------------------------------------------------
>>For a great dog book, visit www.abrohamneal.com
>>-------------------------------------------------
>>See the FlexRadio Systems Flex-5000a in
>>action at www.flex-videos.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 7:36 PM, Judy Perry 
>><katheryn.swynford at gmail.com > wrote:
>>>Ummmm.... I'm feeling more stupid than usual. What exactly does
>>>"hoovering"
>>>mean in the US?
>>>And how long ago was this heaux conversation?  (yes, I've seen it
>>>spelt that
>>>way).
>>>
>>>Judy
>>>http://revined.blogspot.com
>>>
>>>On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Richmond Mathewson 
>>><geradamas at yahoo.com >wrote:
>>>
>>>>[TT] - Totally Tangential.
>>>>
>>>>Ha, Ha, Ha . . .
>>>>
>>>>When I was studying at SIU Carbondale I rushed into a teaching
>>>>assistants'
>>>>meeting fresh from vacuuming the carpet at home and said:
>>>>
>>>>"Sorry I'm late, I have just been hoovering . . ."
>>>>
>>>>There was a deathly silence in the room!
>>>>
>>>>My understanding supervisor (A Canadian) took me outside and told me
>>>>that 'hoovering' did not mean vacuum-cleaning in America.
>>>>
>>>>Late, I was working in the married students' garden plots when a
>>>>pleasant
>>>>woman from Wyoming asked me how I managed to break up the clods of
>>>>earth
>>>>so effectively. My reply; "I always use a hoe." was received in
>>>>silence,
>>>>and then she walked off, never to speak to me again.
>>>>
>>>>In Britain, 'beavering away' means (or, maybe, meant, when I was
>>>>at school)
>>>>"working away extremely eagerly"; no doubt connected with "eager
>>>>beaver" -
>>>>which, no doubt, you North Americans will resemanticise as a
>>>>synonym for "loose woman".
>>>>
>>>>Divided by a common language we may be; united by a love of
>>>>programming in
>>>>Runtime Revolution I hope we all are.
>>>>
>>>>Welcome to the silly season !!!
>>>>
>>>>Love, Richmond.
>>>>____________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development
>>>>Life
>>>>Cycle.
>>>>____________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>use-revolution mailing list
>>>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>subscription preferences:
>>>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>use-revolution mailing list
>>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>subscription preferences:
>>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-revolution mailing list
>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>subscription preferences:
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 13 21:34:28 2008
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Petrides, M.D. Marian)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 20:34:28 -0600
Subject: [TT] Beavering Away . . .
In-Reply-To: <0MKpCa-1LBg1H3IZM-0001Kk@mrelay.perfora.net>
References: <145133.75087.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4be051070812131636t70404593r2e0b5390b893122c@mail.gmail.com>
	<325413300812131638x6ef7a5e2s31dd5647a272ad0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<CC5839B2-E3F6-4FD9-B51F-F19096763158@earthlink.net>
	<0MKpCa-1LBg1H3IZM-0001Kk@mrelay.perfora.net>
Message-ID: <C97666EB-ACED-4038-8960-B56DEA6A0671@earthlink.net>

Thanks.  It actually wasn't as bad as I imagined. ;-)

On Dec 13, 2008, at 7:43 PM, Noel wrote:

> For those curious folks :)
>
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hoovering
>
> - Noel
>
> At 06:22 PM 12/13/2008, you wrote:
>> Oh, please, don't tantalize us that way!!!
>>
>>
>> On Dec 13, 2008, at 6:38 PM, Neal Campbell wrote:
>>
>>> You must not have read Fear of Flying in the 70s! If you do not know
>>> what it means, more than likely you do not want to know.
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>> Neal
>>> Neal Campbell
>>> Abroham Neal Software
>>> Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux
>>> (540) 242 0911
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Try Spot for OS X, the intelligent DXCluster Client at
>>> www.abrohamnealsoftware.com -  $15.99
>>> -------------------------------------------------
>>> For a great dog book, visit www.abrohamneal.com
>>> -------------------------------------------------
>>> See the FlexRadio Systems Flex-5000a in
>>> action at www.flex-videos.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 7:36 PM, Judy Perry <katheryn.swynford at gmail.com 
>>>  > wrote:
>>>> Ummmm.... I'm feeling more stupid than usual. What exactly does
>>>> "hoovering"
>>>> mean in the US?
>>>> And how long ago was this heaux conversation?  (yes, I've seen it
>>>> spelt that
>>>> way).
>>>>
>>>> Judy
>>>> http://revined.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Richmond Mathewson <geradamas at yahoo.com 
>>>>  >wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> [TT] - Totally Tangential.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ha, Ha, Ha . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> When I was studying at SIU Carbondale I rushed into a teaching
>>>>> assistants'
>>>>> meeting fresh from vacuuming the carpet at home and said:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Sorry I'm late, I have just been hoovering . . ."
>>>>>
>>>>> There was a deathly silence in the room!
>>>>>
>>>>> My understanding supervisor (A Canadian) took me outside and  
>>>>> told me
>>>>> that 'hoovering' did not mean vacuum-cleaning in America.
>>>>>
>>>>> Late, I was working in the married students' garden plots when a
>>>>> pleasant
>>>>> woman from Wyoming asked me how I managed to break up the clods of
>>>>> earth
>>>>> so effectively. My reply; "I always use a hoe." was received in
>>>>> silence,
>>>>> and then she walked off, never to speak to me again.
>>>>>
>>>>> In Britain, 'beavering away' means (or, maybe, meant, when I was
>>>>> at school)
>>>>> "working away extremely eagerly"; no doubt connected with "eager
>>>>> beaver" -
>>>>> which, no doubt, you North Americans will resemanticise as a
>>>>> synonym for "loose woman".
>>>>>
>>>>> Divided by a common language we may be; united by a love of
>>>>> programming in
>>>>> Runtime Revolution I hope we all are.
>>>>>
>>>>> Welcome to the silly season !!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Love, Richmond.
>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development
>>>>> Life
>>>>> Cycle.
>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Sat Dec 13 22:44:19 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 19:44:19 -0800
Subject: [TT] Beavering Away . . .
In-Reply-To: <325413300812131638x6ef7a5e2s31dd5647a272ad0d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <145133.75087.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4be051070812131636t70404593r2e0b5390b893122c@mail.gmail.com>
	<325413300812131638x6ef7a5e2s31dd5647a272ad0d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4be051070812131944m77fb3f07ndad350265e077a3d@mail.gmail.com>

Ummm, given that I was born in the early 60s, no, it's probably apparently a
good thing(tm) that I didn't read Fear of Flying in the 70s!
Thanks, Noel, for the link.  I feel so much older now @;-)

Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com

On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 4:38 PM, Neal Campbell <nealk3nc at gmail.com> wrote:

> You must not have read Fear of Flying in the 70s! If you do not know
> what it means, more than likely you do not want to know.
>
> Best regards
> Neal
> Neal Campbell
> Abroham Neal Software
> Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux
> (540) 242 0911
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Try Spot for OS X, the intelligent DXCluster Client at
> www.abrohamnealsoftware.com -  $15.99
> -------------------------------------------------
> For a great dog book, visit www.abrohamneal.com
> -------------------------------------------------
> See the FlexRadio Systems Flex-5000a in
> action at www.flex-videos.com
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 7:36 PM, Judy Perry <katheryn.swynford at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Ummmm.... I'm feeling more stupid than usual. What exactly does
> "hoovering"
> > mean in the US?
> > And how long ago was this heaux conversation?  (yes, I've seen it spelt
> that
> > way).
> >
> > Judy
> > http://revined.blogspot.com
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Richmond Mathewson <
> geradamas at yahoo.com>wrote:
> >
> >> [TT] - Totally Tangential.
> >>
> >> Ha, Ha, Ha . . .
> >>
> >> When I was studying at SIU Carbondale I rushed into a teaching
> assistants'
> >> meeting fresh from vacuuming the carpet at home and said:
> >>
> >> "Sorry I'm late, I have just been hoovering . . ."
> >>
> >> There was a deathly silence in the room!
> >>
> >> My understanding supervisor (A Canadian) took me outside and told me
> >> that 'hoovering' did not mean vacuum-cleaning in America.
> >>
> >> Late, I was working in the married students' garden plots when a
> pleasant
> >> woman from Wyoming asked me how I managed to break up the clods of earth
> >> so effectively. My reply; "I always use a hoe." was received in silence,
> >> and then she walked off, never to speak to me again.
> >>
> >> In Britain, 'beavering away' means (or, maybe, meant, when I was at
> school)
> >> "working away extremely eagerly"; no doubt connected with "eager beaver"
> -
> >> which, no doubt, you North Americans will resemanticise as a
> >> synonym for "loose woman".
> >>
> >> Divided by a common language we may be; united by a love of programming
> in
> >> Runtime Revolution I hope we all are.
> >>
> >> Welcome to the silly season !!!
> >>
> >> Love, Richmond.
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >>
> >> A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life
> >> Cycle.
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-revolution mailing list
> >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Sat Dec 13 22:45:05 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 19:45:05 -0800
Subject: [TT] Beavering Away . . .
In-Reply-To: <C97666EB-ACED-4038-8960-B56DEA6A0671@earthlink.net>
References: <145133.75087.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4be051070812131636t70404593r2e0b5390b893122c@mail.gmail.com>
	<325413300812131638x6ef7a5e2s31dd5647a272ad0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<CC5839B2-E3F6-4FD9-B51F-F19096763158@earthlink.net>
	<0MKpCa-1LBg1H3IZM-0001Kk@mrelay.perfora.net>
	<C97666EB-ACED-4038-8960-B56DEA6A0671@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4be051070812131945s3a37a146o4701d8fb0da419f9@mail.gmail.com>

I'm glad I didn't get to the imagining part!
Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com

On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 6:34 PM, Petrides, M.D. Marian <
mpetrides at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Thanks.  It actually wasn't as bad as I imagined. ;-)
>
>
> On Dec 13, 2008, at 7:43 PM, Noel wrote:
>
>  For those curious folks :)
>>
>> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hoovering
>>
>> - Noel
>>
>> At 06:22 PM 12/13/2008, you wrote:
>>
>>> Oh, please, don't tantalize us that way!!!
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 13, 2008, at 6:38 PM, Neal Campbell wrote:
>>>
>>>  You must not have read Fear of Flying in the 70s! If you do not know
>>>> what it means, more than likely you do not want to know.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards
>>>> Neal
>>>> Neal Campbell
>>>> Abroham Neal Software
>>>> Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux
>>>> (540) 242 0911
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Try Spot for OS X, the intelligent DXCluster Client at
>>>> www.abrohamnealsoftware.com -  $15.99
>>>> -------------------------------------------------
>>>> For a great dog book, visit www.abrohamneal.com
>>>> -------------------------------------------------
>>>> See the FlexRadio Systems Flex-5000a in
>>>> action at www.flex-videos.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 7:36 PM, Judy Perry <
>>>> katheryn.swynford at gmail.com > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ummmm.... I'm feeling more stupid than usual. What exactly does
>>>>> "hoovering"
>>>>> mean in the US?
>>>>> And how long ago was this heaux conversation?  (yes, I've seen it
>>>>> spelt that
>>>>> way).
>>>>>
>>>>> Judy
>>>>> http://revined.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Richmond Mathewson <
>>>>> geradamas at yahoo.com >wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  [TT] - Totally Tangential.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ha, Ha, Ha . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I was studying at SIU Carbondale I rushed into a teaching
>>>>>> assistants'
>>>>>> meeting fresh from vacuuming the carpet at home and said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Sorry I'm late, I have just been hoovering . . ."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There was a deathly silence in the room!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My understanding supervisor (A Canadian) took me outside and told me
>>>>>> that 'hoovering' did not mean vacuum-cleaning in America.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Late, I was working in the married students' garden plots when a
>>>>>> pleasant
>>>>>> woman from Wyoming asked me how I managed to break up the clods of
>>>>>> earth
>>>>>> so effectively. My reply; "I always use a hoe." was received in
>>>>>> silence,
>>>>>> and then she walked off, never to speak to me again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In Britain, 'beavering away' means (or, maybe, meant, when I was
>>>>>> at school)
>>>>>> "working away extremely eagerly"; no doubt connected with "eager
>>>>>> beaver" -
>>>>>> which, no doubt, you North Americans will resemanticise as a
>>>>>> synonym for "loose woman".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Divided by a common language we may be; united by a love of
>>>>>> programming in
>>>>>> Runtime Revolution I hope we all are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Welcome to the silly season !!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Love, Richmond.
>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development
>>>>>> Life
>>>>>> Cycle.
>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 14 03:58:52 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 00:58:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TT] Beavering Away . . .
Message-ID: <169223.90200.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Oh, Dear, my instructor (of EFL techniques, I rush to add) told me that
'hoovering' meant this:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hoover definition No. 2

I didn't realise that the verb had a slightly different meaning to the 
noun.

The reason 'hoovering' means vacuuming in Britain is because
Hoover was the first company to mass market vacuum cleaners there.
In fact 'hoover' is so tightly linked (semantically) with vacuum cleaners
that other white goods made by Hoover (washing-machines and so on) are
never referred to as a 'hoover'.

This is similar to the verb 'to xerox', meaning to photocopy.

Presumably 'to xerox' means, in America, to photocopy intimate
pieces of one's anatomy :)

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Sun Dec 14 04:35:55 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 10:35:55 +0100
Subject: Is it possible to use 'sheet' stack and then go to a specific
	card of that stack?
In-Reply-To: <b016f13e0812131051u551aea68l6e09dcb81180f39d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b016f13e0812131051u551aea68l6e09dcb81180f39d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <97861C67-26F7-4C25-8650-1BA9C09BAEAD@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi William,

go cd 2 of stack "bla" as sheet

works fine for me. I think that the card reference used in your script  
is incorrect. What exactly do you have in your field?

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to  
discuss your custom software project!

On 13 dec 2008, at 19:51, William de Smet wrote:

> Hi there,
> I wonder if it is possible to use 'sheet' stack and then go to a  
> specific
> card of that stack?
> I call the cards of a stack in a field and when I click on it it  
> will open
> the card. This works fine!
> Because I like 'sheet' stack on OSX I'd like to combine both.
> Is this possible?
>
> When I use the code below it doesn't work:
>
> then put the value of the clickline into tData
>
>  then sheet stack tNaam
>
>  then go card tData of stack tNaam
>
>
>
> Greetings,
>
>
> William 'MacSmet' de Smet



From williamdesmet at gmail.com  Sun Dec 14 04:53:25 2008
From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 10:53:25 +0100
Subject: Is it possible to use 'sheet' stack and then go to a specific
	card of that stack?
In-Reply-To: <97861C67-26F7-4C25-8650-1BA9C09BAEAD@economy-x-talk.com>
References: <b016f13e0812131051u551aea68l6e09dcb81180f39d@mail.gmail.com>
	<97861C67-26F7-4C25-8650-1BA9C09BAEAD@economy-x-talk.com>
Message-ID: <b016f13e0812140153o65672d4i15517c6773d4f66e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,
One again you're my hero for the day!
I trtied several things and now it works:

*on **mouseup*

*  put **fld "dr" into tNaam*

  if the hilitedLine is not empty

  then put the value of the clickline into tData

  --then go card tData of stack tNaam

  -- then sheet stack tNaam

  --then go card tData of stack tNaam

  then go cd tData of stack tNaam as sheet

end if

end mouseup


Sometimes the easy ones are the most difficult :-)

I was scripting all day and couldn't get it to work anymore last night.


Thanks again!


Greetings,


William



2008/12/14 Mark Schonewille <m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com>

> Hi William,
>
> go cd 2 of stack "bla" as sheet
>
> works fine for me. I think that the card reference used in your script is
> incorrect. What exactly do you have in your field?
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Schonewille
>
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> http://economy-x-talk.com
> http://www.salery.biz
> Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum
>
> We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to discuss
> your custom software project!
>
>
> On 13 dec 2008, at 19:51, William de Smet wrote:
>
>  Hi there,
>> I wonder if it is possible to use 'sheet' stack and then go to a specific
>> card of that stack?
>> I call the cards of a stack in a field and when I click on it it will open
>> the card. This works fine!
>> Because I like 'sheet' stack on OSX I'd like to combine both.
>> Is this possible?
>>
>> When I use the code below it doesn't work:
>>
>> then put the value of the clickline into tData
>>
>>  then sheet stack tNaam
>>
>>  then go card tData of stack tNaam
>>
>>
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>>
>> William 'MacSmet' de Smet
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From jbv.silences at club-internet.fr  Sun Dec 14 05:35:11 2008
From: jbv.silences at club-internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 11:35:11 +0100
Subject: Core Midi
References: <b11f363a57104d3ac034cd0a848aae49@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <4944E15F.4141FE0E@club-internet.fr>



Beat Cornaz a *crit :

>
> I will reply to you Ren? off list.
>
> If there are more people who would like to get involved in getting
>
> real time Midi data from and to Revolution going,
>
> please contact me and I will try to coordinate
> the thing.

Just curious : why keeping this off-list ?

I'm interested in that topic and would like to be involved in any
follow-up, on or off-list...

thanks in advance,
JB



From toolbook at kestner.de  Sun Dec 14 06:42:31 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 12:42:31 +0100
Subject: "the filename of this stack" returns capital letters
Message-ID: <10E42697BD5D4C3DA4F5398EF7809E60@Kestner.local>

Hello,

I just discovered a difference in given paths from Rev 3.0. When asking for
"the filename of this stack" on my Win XP Client, I get the path, as
expected. When asking the same on a Win 2003 Server Rev returns the path
completely in capital letters.

Could I run anywhere into problems with a path in capital letters (it works
so far), or is it completely insignificant if the path is in capital or not?
And is there perhaps any option to change this behaviour?

Thanks

Tiemo

 

 

 



From dam-pro.girard at laposte.net  Sun Dec 14 08:41:49 2008
From: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net (GIRARD Damien)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:41:49 +0100
Subject: "the filename of this stack" returns capital letters
In-Reply-To: <10E42697BD5D4C3DA4F5398EF7809E60@Kestner.local>
References: <10E42697BD5D4C3DA4F5398EF7809E60@Kestner.local>
Message-ID: <49450D1D.1060005@laposte.net>

Hi Tiemo,

On Windows, path are case-insensitive, so this cannot make any problems. 
The only
problems that can be created is a cosmetic issue when displaying the 
path to the user.

By the way, this behaviour is strange.

Regards,
Damien

Tiemo Hollmann TB a ?crit :
> Hello,
>
> I just discovered a difference in given paths from Rev 3.0. When asking for
> "the filename of this stack" on my Win XP Client, I get the path, as
> expected. When asking the same on a Win 2003 Server Rev returns the path
> completely in capital letters.
>
> Could I run anywhere into problems with a path in capital letters (it works
> so far), or is it completely insignificant if the path is in capital or not?
> And is there perhaps any option to change this behaviour?
>
> Thanks
>
> Tiemo
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>   



From toolbook at kestner.de  Sun Dec 14 08:47:48 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:47:48 +0100
Subject: How to ask if there is a appBundle?
Message-ID: <B0FD9BE8FE0446DE9AFBFBA0E4264EF8@Kestner.local>

Hello,

When verifying a bundle on the Mac with "if there is a file" I get false -
which is comprehensible, but same with "if there is a folder". So there must
be another way. How do I ask for a bundle?

Thanks

Tiemo

 

 

 



From toolbook at kestner.de  Sun Dec 14 08:51:59 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:51:59 +0100
Subject: AW: "the filename of this stack" returns capital letters
In-Reply-To: <49450D1D.1060005@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <DE62F58B36994C4CBF45FF49FC5D3B69@Kestner.local>

Hello Damien,
yes, it is strange. First I thought, it was the first time I ask for a path
of the server, but actually looking back, it is not the first time and I
believe I have never seen theses capital paths.
Just yesterday I installed the newest monthly patches on my server - perhaps
MS changed anything under the hood when asking the server, who knows...
Thank you, giving me the safeness of the case-insensitiveness :)
Tiemo

> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-
> bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von GIRARD Damien
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 14. Dezember 2008 14:42
> An: How to use Revolution
> Betreff: Re: "the filename of this stack" returns capital letters
> 
> Hi Tiemo,
> 
> On Windows, path are case-insensitive, so this cannot make any problems.
> The only
> problems that can be created is a cosmetic issue when displaying the
> path to the user.
> 
> By the way, this behaviour is strange.
> 
> Regards,
> Damien
> 
> Tiemo Hollmann TB a ?crit :
> > Hello,
> >
> > I just discovered a difference in given paths from Rev 3.0. When asking
> for
> > "the filename of this stack" on my Win XP Client, I get the path, as
> > expected. When asking the same on a Win 2003 Server Rev returns the path
> > completely in capital letters.
> >
> > Could I run anywhere into problems with a path in capital letters (it
> works
> > so far), or is it completely insignificant if the path is in capital or
> not?
> > And is there perhaps any option to change this behaviour?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Tiemo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From harrison at all-auctions.com  Sun Dec 14 09:24:35 2008
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 09:24:35 -0500
Subject: Core Midi
In-Reply-To: <4944E15F.4141FE0E@club-internet.fr>
References: <b11f363a57104d3ac034cd0a848aae49@gmx.net>
	<4944E15F.4141FE0E@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <70D5232A-F3AB-498B-82B2-85BD706CA5E9@all-auctions.com>

Hi there,

I agree that this is a topic of great interest to a number of people  
including myself.

If Revolution is capable of working with Core MIDI, then this  
discussion should NOT
take place "off list".  We would like to know what all is happening!

Thanks,

Rick


On Dec 14, 2008, at 5:35 AM, jbv wrote:

>
>
> Beat Cornaz a *crit :
>
>>
>> I will reply to you Ren? off list.
>>
>> If there are more people who would like to get involved in getting
>>
>> real time Midi data from and to Revolution going,
>>
>> please contact me and I will try to coordinate
>> the thing.
>
> Just curious : why keeping this off-list ?
>
> I'm interested in that topic and would like to be involved in any
> follow-up, on or off-list...
>
> thanks in advance,
> JB
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

__________________________________
Rick Harrison

You can buy my $10 music album "Funny Time Machine" digital CD on the  
iTunes Store Now!

To visit the iTunes Store now to listen to samples of my CD please  
click on the
following link.  (Please note you must have iTunes installed on your  
computer for this link to work.)

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=213668290




From toolbook at kestner.de  Sun Dec 14 09:40:58 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:40:58 +0100
Subject: AW: How to ask if there is a appBundle?
In-Reply-To: <B0FD9BE8FE0446DE9AFBFBA0E4264EF8@Kestner.local>
Message-ID: <25E783DF85EB4EADA7688B8B96C77519@Kestner.local>

Sorry, it works with "folder", I just forgot to add the ".app"
Thanks
Tiemo

> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-
> bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Tiemo Hollmann TB
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 14. Dezember 2008 14:48
> An: 'How to use Revolution'
> Betreff: How to ask if there is a appBundle?
> 
> Hello,
> 
> When verifying a bundle on the Mac with "if there is a file" I get false -
> which is comprehensible, but same with "if there is a folder". So there
> must
> be another way. How do I ask for a bundle?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tiemo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From rmicout at online.fr  Sun Dec 14 09:47:35 2008
From: rmicout at online.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Micout?=)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:47:35 +0100
Subject: Core Midi
In-Reply-To: <70D5232A-F3AB-498B-82B2-85BD706CA5E9@all-auctions.com>
References: <b11f363a57104d3ac034cd0a848aae49@gmx.net>
	<4944E15F.4141FE0E@club-internet.fr>
	<70D5232A-F3AB-498B-82B2-85BD706CA5E9@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <3F0F5A32-907B-4F89-ACDE-FE12FF8B237F@online.fr>

For JB & Rick > last mails off-list
For Beat > impossible ro reply off-list (wrong address mail ?)
Ren?
-----
Hi Ren?,
my sincire apology for not answering you sooner.
I posted my reply on the dutch forum on dec. 11 th.
My goals is to be able to send Midi data in realtime from and to  
revolutiuon.
I am working on stacks in Rev that help you in composing, by f.i.  
creating rhythms and
themes, or variatiuons, or the usaer is able to generate variations  
by all sorts of transformations.
I am also working on a 'evolutionary' stack to evolve rhythms.
Anyway, I'll be needing to hear directly what I have created and I'd  
prefer to hear my own samples and
Instruments (in Logic or NI) and not to use the QuickTime instruments.
One of the stacks I am making will be searching for the 'right'  
sounds to use under user's
direction (semi automated). So I need to hear my own sounds.
As two know more than one, we might share info and be working  
together on this thing.I have already figured out how to make
a standard midi file (as others have done before me). Do you have  
knowlwdge of C or C++ and Xcode (do you woirk on Mac?)
I will be staring to look into these things in the coming 4 weeks, as  
I take my computer with me into the mountains (alas, no internet  
connection there).
Sunday (tomorrow), I will be away for 4 weeks and only be able to get  
to my mail on a weekly basis.
Greetings, Beat
-----
Beat,
What name for musician !
Thank you for your answer. My english is not very good, sorry :-)...  
But my french is better !
I am working on a generative musical instrument (named ?Exagofon?)  
with Revolution (only, no C, C++ or Xcode... too much for my brain !)  
and today it work with the Quicktime instruments, but, like you, I  
wish play (live) Midi (in/out) via USB and Revolution on Macintosh.
I am working also on several musical projects : Acordofon, Ritmofon,  
Yasarofon, Rizomofon, Exagovox.
Bons souvenirs de Paris
Ren?
-----
salut Ren?,
merci beaucoup pour votre mail. Mon anglais est mieux que mon  
francais, alors je continue en anglais.
very interesting what you are doing. Maybe we could discuss some  
things when I get back. I have to dash off now, as the raod is 900 km  
to where I am going.
talk to you later,
Beat
PS. It is my real name! Nice, he.
-----
Bonjour Beat,
Bon voyage ! Bonnes vacances !
I am also interesed by musical experimental instruments like Ztar (I  
have one Z7), Reactable, Reactogon (Exagofon is inspired from  
Reactogon), Chromatone, Miko, Thummer, Monome, Axis, Tenori-on (soon  
perhaps), Janko keyboards, Haken Continuum fingerboard (soon  
perhaps), etc...
Ren?

From shoreagent at gmail.com  Sun Dec 14 11:32:56 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 12:32:56 -0400
Subject: open printing, close printing, for print spool job
Message-ID: <459b22a90812140832v309efe4cu2d851adbf4b2b4a4@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone know how to make the print dialog know that you are printing
more than one page so that it says Processing Page 1, Processing Page 2 etc
instead of just hanging at Processing Page 1 until it's all done?


From shoreagent at gmail.com  Sun Dec 14 12:00:11 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 13:00:11 -0400
Subject: open printing, close printing, for print spool job
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812140832v309efe4cu2d851adbf4b2b4a4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812140832v309efe4cu2d851adbf4b2b4a4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812140900r1e07f1a9w546641351bf60ed0@mail.gmail.com>

It's worse even. I'm trying to do

  on printSomeCards

    global cardsToPrint

    open printing with dialog

    if the result is "Cancel" then exit printSomeCards

    repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines of cardsToPrint

      print card (line x of cardsToPrint)

    end repeat

    close printing -- send group of cards to printer

  end printSomeCards

But when I do it only the last card gets spooled and printed.

So I do this:

  on printSomeCards

    global cardsToPrint

    open printing with dialog

    if the result is "Cancel" then exit printSomeCards

    repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines of cardsToPrint

      print card (line x of cardsToPrint)

close printing

    end repeat



  end printSomeCards


Then all the cars print but not as one nice batch (for example when you
print to a PDF and you want a many page PDF.


I'm using RunRev version 3.0 on Mac OS. Does anyone know how to get the
print spool function to work?


On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 12:32 PM, william humphrey <shoreagent at gmail.com>wrote:

> Does anyone know how to make the print dialog know that you are printing
> more than one page so that it says Processing Page 1, Processing Page 2 etc
> instead of just hanging at Processing Page 1 until it's all done?




-- 
http://www.bluewatermaritime.com


From Andre.Bisseret at inria.fr  Sun Dec 14 12:24:28 2008
From: Andre.Bisseret at inria.fr (Andre.Bisseret)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:24:28 +0100
Subject: open printing, close printing, for print spool job
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812140900r1e07f1a9w546641351bf60ed0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812140832v309efe4cu2d851adbf4b2b4a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<459b22a90812140900r1e07f1a9w546641351bf60ed0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46B889E5-8AC6-4FF9-BC11-BBEA55CBF46C@inria.fr>

William,
I often use the following handler that allow printing all cards in a  
stack :
(usually a special stack devoted to printing).

  on imprimer
  put the cardnames of stack "stackDImpression" into cardsToPrint
   --answer printer
   open printing WITH dialog
   IF the result is "Cancel" THEN exit Imprimer
   REPEAT FOR each line tCd in cardsToPrint
     print tCd
   END repeat
   close printing
end imprimer

Hope this helps

best regards from Grenoble
Andr?

Le 14 d?c. 08 ? 18:00, william humphrey a ?crit :

> It's worse even. I'm trying to do
>
>  on printSomeCards
>
>    global cardsToPrint
>
>    open printing with dialog
>
>    if the result is "Cancel" then exit printSomeCards
>
>    repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines of cardsToPrint
>
>      print card (line x of cardsToPrint)
>
>    end repeat
>
>    close printing -- send group of cards to printer
>
>  end printSomeCards
>
> But when I do it only the last card gets spooled and printed.
>
> So I do this:
>
>  on printSomeCards
>
>    global cardsToPrint
>
>    open printing with dialog
>
>    if the result is "Cancel" then exit printSomeCards
>
>    repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines of cardsToPrint
>
>      print card (line x of cardsToPrint)
>
> close printing
>
>    end repeat
>
>
>
>  end printSomeCards
>
>
> Then all the cars print but not as one nice batch (for example when  
> you
> print to a PDF and you want a many page PDF.
>
>
> I'm using RunRev version 3.0 on Mac OS. Does anyone know how to get  
> the
> print spool function to work?
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 12:32 PM, william humphrey <shoreagent at gmail.com 
> >wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know how to make the print dialog know that you are  
>> printing
>> more than one page so that it says Processing Page 1, Processing  
>> Page 2 etc
>> instead of just hanging at Processing Page 1 until it's all done?
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>




From h at FlexibleLearning.com  Sun Dec 14 12:57:15 2008
From: h at FlexibleLearning.com (Hugh Senior)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 17:57:15 -0000
Subject: Text Clippings on Windows (was: Desktop clipFile by D&D)
In-Reply-To: <20081214144752.3942348A46F@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONKEJICBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>

Thank you, Mark. Looks like Windows cannot do this without lower level
support. Once again the Mac demonstrates its inate usability superiority :-)

Is anyone up for writing an external to support text clippings for Windows?
Please contact me off list.

/H


Hi Hugh,

On the Mac, text clippings are created automatically. I guess you are
on Windows. I believe that the new drag and drop commands make it
possible to retrieve the dragDestination and create a text file by
means of a script, using this dragDestination. I don't know whether
Windows is able to do this by itself and I haven't created a text file
after a D&D myself yet.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille



From shoreagent at gmail.com  Sun Dec 14 13:13:22 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:13:22 -0400
Subject: open printing, close printing, for print spool job
In-Reply-To: <46B889E5-8AC6-4FF9-BC11-BBEA55CBF46C@inria.fr>
References: <459b22a90812140832v309efe4cu2d851adbf4b2b4a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<459b22a90812140900r1e07f1a9w546641351bf60ed0@mail.gmail.com>
	<46B889E5-8AC6-4FF9-BC11-BBEA55CBF46C@inria.fr>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812141013j70a36a3ahe91c12a5417730e2@mail.gmail.com>

I'm sending data from a database to one card (filling out fields in that
card) then printing the card then sending new data etc. It is very similar
to printing a whole bunch of cards except that the information in the fields
on one card is just changed. I don't see why it would make any difference in
the print spooling command but I guess I need to make some test stacks and
start experimenting.


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Dec 14 13:26:42 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 12:26:42 -0600
Subject: Text Clippings on Windows
In-Reply-To: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONKEJICBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>
References: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONKEJICBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>
Message-ID: <49454FE2.6090702@hyperactivesw.com>

Hugh Senior wrote:
> Thank you, Mark. Looks like Windows cannot do this without lower level
> support. Once again the Mac demonstrates its inate usability superiority :-)
> 
> Is anyone up for writing an external to support text clippings for Windows?
> Please contact me off list.

If Windows doesn't support this, I wonder if your Windows users will 
even miss it. Or if they will ever try to do it.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Dec 14 13:34:54 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 12:34:54 -0600
Subject: open printing, close printing, for print spool job
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812141013j70a36a3ahe91c12a5417730e2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812140832v309efe4cu2d851adbf4b2b4a4@mail.gmail.com>	<459b22a90812140900r1e07f1a9w546641351bf60ed0@mail.gmail.com>	<46B889E5-8AC6-4FF9-BC11-BBEA55CBF46C@inria.fr>
	<459b22a90812141013j70a36a3ahe91c12a5417730e2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <494551CE.2000003@hyperactivesw.com>

william humphrey wrote:
> I'm sending data from a database to one card (filling out fields in that
> card) then printing the card then sending new data etc. It is very similar
> to printing a whole bunch of cards except that the information in the fields
> on one card is just changed. I don't see why it would make any difference in
> the print spooling command but I guess I need to make some test stacks and
> start experimenting.

I don't see in your original handler where you are filling the fields 
with data. The repeat loop is written as though it should print 
different cards, rather than loading one card repeatedly from different 
records in a database. Change it to something like this:

   repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines of cardsToPrint
     fillCardData (line x of cardsToPrint) -- load the fields here
     print this card -- which now contains new data
   end repeat

I do this all the time and it works fine. I'm not sure "line x of 
cardsToPrint" is the right parameter for what you are doing, but the 
idea is to grab the right data from your database, fill the fields, then 
print the card. Each iteration of the loop repeats this process. The 
same card is printed repeatedly, but in each instance it contains 
different field data.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Dec 14 13:39:20 2008
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 10:39:20 -0800
Subject: Core Midi
In-Reply-To: <b11f363a57104d3ac034cd0a848aae49@gmx.net>
References: <b11f363a57104d3ac034cd0a848aae49@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <101158491500.20081214103920@ahsoftware.net>

Beat-

Saturday, December 13, 2008, 7:31:39 AM, you wrote:

> If there are more people who would like to get involved in getting

> real time Midi data from and to Revolution going,

What you were talking about on the web forum is a way for Rev to
communicate midi information to other *applications* running on the
same machine in a generic manner, which is *quite* different from
sending midi data over a cable. There are many ways of packaging up
the midi info and sending it to other devices, but communicating with
other applications is much harder, especially since you want to do
this in a cross-platform manner.

ReWire is promising, although Propellerheads' licensing is byzantine.
I've written an OSC library for rev (it's in my MakeBoard stack in
revOnline), but again it's limited to talking to devices that support
OSC.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From geradamas at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 14 13:44:06 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 10:44:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hiding the cursor ?
Message-ID: <961123.82989.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I wonder why

set the cursor to none

doesn't work.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Dec 14 14:12:47 2008
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 11:12:47 -0800
Subject: Hiding the cursor ?
In-Reply-To: <961123.82989.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C56A9AAF.3E359%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> I wonder why
> 
> set the cursor to none
> 
> doesn't work.



lock cursor
set cursor to none

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design




From geradamas at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 14 14:43:12 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 11:43:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hiding the cursor ?
Message-ID: <978283.89294.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Scott Rossi wrote:

"lock cursor
set cursor to none"

Thank you very much.

I'm going to blame it on the documentation again.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From shoreagent at gmail.com  Sun Dec 14 15:00:51 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:00:51 -0400
Subject: open printing, close printing, for print spool job
In-Reply-To: <494551CE.2000003@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <459b22a90812140832v309efe4cu2d851adbf4b2b4a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<459b22a90812140900r1e07f1a9w546641351bf60ed0@mail.gmail.com>
	<46B889E5-8AC6-4FF9-BC11-BBEA55CBF46C@inria.fr>
	<459b22a90812141013j70a36a3ahe91c12a5417730e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<494551CE.2000003@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812141200k58736696sa249dd466bf3e5ef@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks but I'm looking for:


> open printing
>  repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines of cardsToPrint
>    fillCardData (line x of cardsToPrint) -- load the fields here
>    print this card -- which now contains new data
>  end repeat

close printing

>
> And to have the printed cards all spool before printing. If you print to a
> PDF then it would be a multiple page PDF. In the docs this should work but
> for me only the last page is printing unless I do this:


 open printing

>  repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines of cardsToPrint
>    fillCardData (line x of cardsToPrint) -- load the fields here
>    print this card -- which now contains new data

close printing

>  end repeat


But then each card prints individually... not what I wanted.

>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.bluewatermaritime.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Dec 14 15:06:26 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:06:26 -0600
Subject: open printing, close printing, for print spool job
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812141200k58736696sa249dd466bf3e5ef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812140832v309efe4cu2d851adbf4b2b4a4@mail.gmail.com>	<459b22a90812140900r1e07f1a9w546641351bf60ed0@mail.gmail.com>	<46B889E5-8AC6-4FF9-BC11-BBEA55CBF46C@inria.fr>	<459b22a90812141013j70a36a3ahe91c12a5417730e2@mail.gmail.com>	<494551CE.2000003@hyperactivesw.com>
	<459b22a90812141200k58736696sa249dd466bf3e5ef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49456742.8030208@hyperactivesw.com>

william humphrey wrote:
> Thanks but I'm looking for:
> 
> 
>> open printing
>>  repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines of cardsToPrint
>>    fillCardData (line x of cardsToPrint) -- load the fields here
>>    print this card -- which now contains new data
>>  end repeat
> 
> close printing
> 
>> And to have the printed cards all spool before printing. If you print to a
>> PDF then it would be a multiple page PDF. In the docs this should work but
>> for me only the last page is printing unless I do this:
> 
> 
>  open printing
> 
>>  repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines of cardsToPrint
>>    fillCardData (line x of cardsToPrint) -- load the fields here
>>    print this card -- which now contains new data
> 
> close printing
> 
>>  end repeat
> 
> 
> But then each card prints individually... not what I wanted.

The example I gave will spool all the data first, I just left off the 
"open" and "close" printing commands (I assumed you'd keep those in 
place.) So yes, you need this:

open printing with dialog
if the result = "cancel" then exit <handler>
repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines of cardsToPrint
  fillCardData (line x of cardsToPrint) -- load the fields here
  print this card -- which now contains new data
end repeat
close printing -- sends it all to printer

You will need to supply the correct info for "fillCardData", either a 
handler with that name, or some code that replaces that line which will 
read the database and fill the field contents in each iteration of the loop.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Dec 14 15:33:39 2008
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 12:33:39 -0800
Subject: Hiding the cursor ?
In-Reply-To: <978283.89294.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C56AADA3.3E360%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> 
> "lock cursor
> set cursor to none"
> 
> Thank you very much.
> 
> I'm going to blame it on the documentation again.


Cursor

If the lockCursor property is set to false, Revolution automatically sets
the cursor according to its location once the handler finishes. (For
example, the cursor normally turns into an arrow over a menu, an I-beam over
an editable text field, and so on.) To retain the cursor property after a
handler finishes, use the lock cursor command.


Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design




From andre at andregarzia.com  Sun Dec 14 15:39:40 2008
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:39:40 -0200
Subject: Internet Applications I and II revlive videos
In-Reply-To: <3A84463B-5051-470D-B0B1-4EDE1445A11E@luceatlux.com>
References: <EDCB55A2-52C8-43D6-9783-319A5CAEF483@luceatlux.com>
	<7c87a2a10812110705l4c595d0fwf1296fdb700a69c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<3A84463B-5051-470D-B0B1-4EDE1445A11E@luceatlux.com>
Message-ID: <7c87a2a10812141239w5333cf61v8ac8ce78c48a8fb4@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry for the delay George,

thanks for the cumpliments, I have code for that, I'll make available
shortly, been somewhat busy here.

cheers
andre



On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 1:51 PM, George C Brackett
<gbrackett at luceatlux.com> wrote:
> Your English is quite understandable, as I'm sure many others have told you.
>  I cannot speak any other language with fluency, and I admire those, like
> you, who can.
>
> Speaking of code, are the examples from your Exchanging Data Over the
> Internet talk available?  I enjoyed the talk, but the video didn't include
> any slides.
>
> Thanks again for not only information, but also instruction!
> George
>
> On Dec 11, 2008, at 10:05 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>
> George,
>
> Thank you very much. I always think nobody will understand my english,
> so I hope my code is clear. Your feedback is very good, the sessions
> objective is to pass information, so if we succeeded then we're all
> happy.
>
> thanks again!
>
> Cheers
> andre
>
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 4:39 PM, George C Brackett
> <gbrackett at luceatlux.com> wrote:
>>
>> Many, many thanks to Jerry Daniels and Andre Garzia for outstanding
>> presentations on how Revolution can be used to create internet-aware and
>> -capable software.  I have finally gotten to viewing the many talks on the
>> DVDs from the 08 revlive conference (which I could not attend), and very
>> much appreciate those where both the enthusiasm of the presenters and the
>> details of the code are so clear. -- George
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.


From shoreagent at gmail.com  Sun Dec 14 15:40:50 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:40:50 -0400
Subject: open printing, close printing, for print spool job
In-Reply-To: <49456742.8030208@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <459b22a90812140832v309efe4cu2d851adbf4b2b4a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<459b22a90812140900r1e07f1a9w546641351bf60ed0@mail.gmail.com>
	<46B889E5-8AC6-4FF9-BC11-BBEA55CBF46C@inria.fr>
	<459b22a90812141013j70a36a3ahe91c12a5417730e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<494551CE.2000003@hyperactivesw.com>
	<459b22a90812141200k58736696sa249dd466bf3e5ef@mail.gmail.com>
	<49456742.8030208@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812141240x3ac4484dg3e307205ab6f4704@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks. I will keep trying to figure out why it doesn't spool for me...


From andre at andregarzia.com  Sun Dec 14 15:49:28 2008
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:49:28 -0200
Subject: Looking for ugly code comparisons WAS: Slashdotter looking for
	kids' programming language
In-Reply-To: <C567DFD5.8A486%bfr@nwlink.com>
References: <0DF5FF61-6A1C-43F8-9434-66B6A694B919@unil.ch>
	<C567DFD5.8A486%bfr@nwlink.com>
Message-ID: <7c87a2a10812141249u22bb95c2xd8341c160ec72da0@mail.gmail.com>

I am a big fan of Tintin but I remember Tin Tin and Mil? (not Snowy)...

On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 3:31 PM, Bruce Robertson <bfr at nwlink.com> wrote:
>> Oh, yes indeed ! old people of any age ! from 7 to 77, like Tintin...
>> (if you're old enough to remember Tintin and Snowy)
>
> Wasn't that Rin's last name?
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 14 16:08:11 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 13:08:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hide the cursor + MouseMove
Message-ID: <809407.50827.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Just uploaded "FAKE CURSOR.rev" to revOnline, demonstrating how to
use a GIF image as a fake cursor for an application such as a game.

WARNING! This stack will make your cursor vanish.

Open the Message Box [ Ctrl-M / Command-M ] and type 'unlock cursor',
hit RETURN should you want your cursor back!

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 14 16:16:39 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 13:16:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BTT=5D_Tintin_et_Mil=FA=2E?=
Message-ID: <616703.93179.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

TT- Totally Tangential.

En Fran?ais nous avons Tintin et Mil?, mais les Anglophones ont 'Tintin
and Snowy'. Grace de Dieu nous n'avons pas Tintin en Bulgarien; c'est sure
le nomme du chien vas ?tes un cr?t!

Mozhe bi imenata na kuche e "Snezhuk", ot snyak, pralichna na 
anglijskata imena?

An Ah dinnae thole til quhat an owersetter wid die wi yon white hound
in war douce lied! Ah jalouse it widnae be ae that mensefu.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sun Dec 14 16:30:04 2008
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Petrides, M.D. Marian)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:30:04 -0600
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_=5BTT=5D_Tintin_et_Mil=FA=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <616703.93179.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <616703.93179.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <EE931BB3-AAA1-4446-9101-A9072BF05B55@earthlink.net>

I have no idea what you just said, Richmond, but I do recognize Tintin  
and Snowy.  Since I have not one but TWO wire fox terriers like Snowy,  
I'm vaguely curious for a translation. Care to oblige?  Off list is  
fine.


On Dec 14, 2008, at 3:16 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> TT- Totally Tangential.
>
> En Fran?ais nous avons Tintin et Mil?, mais les Anglophones ont  
> 'Tintin
> and Snowy'. Grace de Dieu nous n'avons pas Tintin en Bulgarien;  
> c'est sure
> le nomme du chien vas ?tes un cr?t!
>
> Mozhe bi imenata na kuche e "Snezhuk", ot snyak, pralichna na
> anglijskata imena?
>
> An Ah dinnae thole til quhat an owersetter wid die wi yon white hound
> in war douce lied! Ah jalouse it widnae be ae that mensefu.
>
> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
>
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development  
> Life Cycle.
> ____________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Dec 14 16:42:50 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:42:50 -0600
Subject: How to ask if there is a appBundle?
In-Reply-To: <B0FD9BE8FE0446DE9AFBFBA0E4264EF8@Kestner.local>
Message-ID: <C56AD9FA.18111%kray@sonsothunder.com>



> When verifying a bundle on the Mac with "if there is a file" I get false -
> which is comprehensible, but same with "if there is a folder". So there must
> be another way. How do I ask for a bundle?

"There is a folder" should work, but you need to make sure you pass the
extension (.app, .bundle, etc.), even if it's not displayed. Here's an
example (I picked TextEdit, but pick what you like):

on mouseUp
  answer file "Select a bundle or app:"
  if it <> "" then
    put (there is a folder it)
  end if
end mouseUp

As you can see, you need to use "answer file" to pick a bundle, but after
that, it should be treated as a folder.

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From jacques.hausser at unil.ch  Sun Dec 14 17:49:11 2008
From: jacques.hausser at unil.ch (Jacques Hausser)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 23:49:11 +0100
Subject: [WTT] Problems I didn't expect
In-Reply-To: <EE931BB3-AAA1-4446-9101-A9072BF05B55@earthlink.net>
References: <616703.93179.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<EE931BB3-AAA1-4446-9101-A9072BF05B55@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <8860A2E1-B640-4816-93B5-23C5493B45BA@unil.ch>

[WTT]: Worse than totally tangential

Dear all,

I'm just back from the "Escalade" commemoration in Geneva, some very  
nice hours with mulled wine and vegetable soup and historical parade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27Escalade 
) and I discover 38 new messages from the list. Avalanche. I deeply  
enjoy every day to read these messages, but I'm feeling some  
frustration because
1) when I actually have a good answer to a question asked on the list,  
they are zillions of answers better than mine already posted. How do  
you deal with that ? It would be a full-time job just to keep the  
pace... If somebody has a good strategy, thank you to share it.
2) Even with the sophisticated semantic explanations of experts like  
Richmond*, I miss half of the jokes (which are more than half of the  
pleasure). Could some bilingual french-english guru (Eric ?) post a  
short lexicon of expressions and abbreviations used ? (I got HTH by  
myself, but it's a rare success amidst many failures...). Sorry, but  
my education included German (totally lost), Latin and classical  
Greek, and my English was just picked out empirically, without any  
formal teaching...

Thanks in advance - and do not hesitate to send your answer(s) out of  
the list if you feel it's [OT] - (is [OT] OK ?)

Jacques

* Richmond, I remember a statue of an old deaf guy in the street in  
Plovdiv - I liked him - is he still there ? Reading some of the  
messages on this list, I'm feeling like him...

******************************************
Prof. Jacques Hausser
Department of Ecology and Evolution
Biophore / Sorge
University of Lausanne
CH 1015 Lausanne
please use my private address:
6 route de Burtigny
CH-1269 Bassins
tel/fax: 	++ 41 22 366 19 40
mobile:	++ 41 79 757 05 24
E-Mail:	jacques.hausser at unil.ch
*******************************************



From len-morgan at crcom.net  Sun Dec 14 19:35:33 2008
From: len-morgan at crcom.net (Len Morgan)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:35:33 -0600
Subject: AW: "the filename of this stack" returns capital letters
Message-ID: <4945A655.5080502@crcom.net>

I ran into this problem about a year and half ago but I had a different 
setup.  I have Rev clients that run on Windows machines but get their 
updates from a Linux server (where the database also is) using Samba. 

While it is true that Windows is case-INsensitive, Linux is NOT and so I 
had to rename all of my files on the Linux server to match what was in 
the Rev code before I could make it work.

len morgan


From gbrackett at luceatlux.com  Sun Dec 14 20:48:59 2008
From: gbrackett at luceatlux.com (George C Brackett)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:48:59 -0500
Subject: Internet Applications I and II revlive videos
In-Reply-To: <7c87a2a10812141239w5333cf61v8ac8ce78c48a8fb4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EDCB55A2-52C8-43D6-9783-319A5CAEF483@luceatlux.com>
	<7c87a2a10812110705l4c595d0fwf1296fdb700a69c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<3A84463B-5051-470D-B0B1-4EDE1445A11E@luceatlux.com>
	<7c87a2a10812141239w5333cf61v8ac8ce78c48a8fb4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17A14788-7BC9-40C7-820E-A26C1825FF07@luceatlux.com>

Thanks, Andre.  No hurry!

George

On Dec 14, 2008, at 3:39 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

Sorry for the delay George,

thanks for the cumpliments, I have code for that, I'll make available
shortly, been somewhat busy here.

cheers
andre

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From katir at hindu.org  Sun Dec 14 21:38:36 2008
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:38:36 -1000
Subject: specialFolderPath("Documents")
Message-ID: <4945C32C.7050104@hindu.org>

Our Hinduism Today Digital Edition/PDF manager uses

specialFolderPath("Documents")

this is resolving to the same folder as SF#28 

also currently known as

 CSIDL_PERSONAL = 0x0005
    File system directory that serves as a common repository for 
documents. A typical path is C:\Documents and Settings\username\My 
Documents. This is different from the My Documents virtual folder in the 
name space. To access that virtual folder, use the technique described 
in Managing the File System.
 
as distinct from:

 CSIDL_MYDOCUMENTS
    Virtual folder that contains the objects in the user's My Documents 
folder.

The app Andre built is able to write files to

C:\Documents and Settings\username\My Documents\Hinduism Today Digital 
Edition\some*.pdf

but the following handler will not boot the PDF as expected, on this 
man's machine
(see below)

Now.. FYI: when people upgraded to Vista, we held  our breath and nearly 
burst until we got the good news that the following code was working 
just fine on Vista! Hurray.. that could have been a major downer..

So, I'm loath to mess with this too much in case we break it, just to 
solve one user's problem... but maybe some can spot the reason why the 
boot the pdf into acrobat will not work. when he navigates  to the files 
in the file system and double clicks on the PDF's they boot in to 
Acrobat just fine.. so the doc/app binding is apparently OK in the registry.

Any insights?


--------------


on bootAcrobat pLinkText
    get getFileForURL(pLinkText)
    launchdocument it
    log "VP", it
end bootAcrobat

on launchdocument pWhich
    breakpoint
    --handler that launch the PDFs. By Dan Shafer. Modified by AAG.
    if there is not a file pWhich then
        -- no file, load magazine..
        set the itemdel to "/"
        get item -1 of pWhich
        set the itemdel to "_"
        get item 2 of it
        set the itemdel to "-"
        put item 1 of it into tYear
        put item 2 of it into tMonth
        put tMonth & "-" & (tMonth + 2) into tMonth
        if char 1 of tMonth is "0" then delete char 1 of tMonth
        put format("/issues/year_%s/issue_%s", tYear, tMonth) into tTemp
        loadEdition tTemp
        exit launchdocument
    end if
      if there is not a file pWhich then exit launchdocument
      revSetWindowsShellCommand
      if word 1 of the systemversion is "NT" then put "true" into tNT 
else put "false" into tNT
    switch the platform
        case "Win32"
            put shortfilepath(pWhich) into pWhich -- AAG: Don't we all 
hate windows!? (long folder name bug)
            put "start" && pWhich into openCmd
            put shell (openCmd) into shellResult
            if (shellResult is not empty) or (the result is not empty)  then
                log "EP", the result && shellResult
                answer error "You appear not to have Adobe Acrobat 
Reader installed. Go to www.adobe.com and download this free program, 
then try loading this SmartEBook(tm) again!" with "OK"
                exit launchDocument
            end if
            
            break
        case "MacOS"
            set the itemdelimiter to "."
            if item 1 of the systemVersion>= 10 then
                replace " " with "\ " in pWhich
                put "open" && pWhich into shellCmd
                get shell (shellCmd)
            else -- It's OS 9
                if "appleScript" is not in the alternatelanguages then
                    log "EP", "no applescript support"
                    answer error "You must have AppleScript installed to 
use this file with Mac Classic. Contact Shafer Media for further 
assistance."
                    exit launchdocument
                else
                    put "tell application" && quote & "Finder" & quote & 
return into asCmd
                    put "activate" & return after asCmd
                    put "set myPath to container of (path to me)" & 
return after asCmd
                    put "open file" && quote & pWhich& quote &&  "in 
myPath" & return after asCmd
                    put "end Tell" & return after asCmd
                    --answer asCmd
                    do asCmd as appleScript
                    if the result is not empty then
                        log "EP", the result
                        answer error "An error of unknown origin has 
occurred. Contact Shafer Media for further assistance."
                        exit launchdocument
                    end if
                end if
            end if
            break
    end SWITCH
end launchdocument

on revSetWindowsShellCommand
  if the platform is not "Win32" then exit revSetWindowsShellCommand
  set the hideconsolewindows to true
  if $COMSPEC is not empty then set the shellcommand to $COMSPEC
  else
    --just in case some windows versions don't use $COMSPEC
    if revRunningWindowsNT() then set the shellcommand to "cmd.exe"
    else set the shellcommand to "command.com"
  end if
end revSetWindowsShellCommand

function getFileForURL pURL
    -- abstract function that will return the local cache file reference 
of a given URL.
    if the platform is "MacOS" then
        return macgetFileForURL(pURL)
    else if the platform is "Win32" then
        return Win32getFileForURL(pURL)
    end if
end getFileForURL

function macgetFileForURL pURL
    -- function that receives an URL and returns the local cache file 
for that URL, platform specific.
    put "~" & specialfolderpath("asup") into tFolder -- Application 
Support Folder inside Users Home.
    set the itemdel to "/"
    put tFolder & "/Hinduism Today Digital Edition/" & item 5 to -1 of 
pURL into tAbsoluteFileLocation -- Absolute folder location.
    return tAbsoluteFileLocation
end macgetFileForURL

function Win32getFileForURL pURL
    -- function that receives an URL and returns the local cache file 
for that URL, platform specific.
    put specialfolderpath("Documents") into tFolder -- Documents folder 
for windows users.
    set the itemdel to "/"
    put tFolder & "/Hinduism Today Digital Edition/" & item 5 to -1 of 
pURL into tAbsoluteFileLocation -- Absolute folder location.
    return tAbsoluteFileLocation
end Win32getFileForURL



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	RE: Broken links in latest edition
Date: 	Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:21:54 -0600
From: 	Paul Harouff <pharouff at gmail.com>
To: 	'Sivakatirswami' <katir at hindu.org>
References: 	<20081213195536.843B18807D at sat.gurudeva.org> 
<494449AA.9010408 at hindu.org>



Try changing the registry to make your personal folder "D:\My Documents\"
instead of "C:\Documents and Settings\username\My Documents\"

I don't know why this would break opening the files but not break
downloading the files.

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Sivakatirswami [mailto:katir at hindu.org] 
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 5:48 PM
To: pharouff at gmail.com; Andre Garzia
Subject: Re: Broken links in latest edition

pharouff at gmail.com wrote:
> First Name: Paul
> Last Name: Harouff
> Month of Birth: February
>
> I downloaded the Jan 09 edition today and the links to the pdf files are
broken.
>
> Your program downloads the pdf files to "\My Documents\Hinduism Today
Digital Edition\2009\1-3\pdf\" but the links from the program are truncating
the path to "\My Documents\Hinduism".
>   

Namaskar Paul:

We have tested on several Mac machines here and also we are getting 
incoming "kudos" from Windows/PC users who are saying that they love the 
latest issue. This would indicate that the problem is specific to your 
machine or system, since other PC users running NT 5.1 are not having 
the same problem.

How we might solve that I don't know.  I have queried our main developer 
for this software, but I'm not sure how we could solve this without 
directly being able to monitor your PC in action. We do have diagnostic 
tools, that only send us a report with no personal information. But 
typically users, especially PC users. are very averse to letting a 3rd 
party run diagnostics on their system. This paranoia is a bit 
unwarranted because in the PC world, all kinds of programs are sending 
info back to "the mother ship," but if someone like us actually requests 
permission, then they get concerned...

At any rate,  I will leave this up to you. We would like very much to 
trouble shoot this and find out exactly what is happening, but if you 
prefer to leave it as is and just access the PDF's directly, that's 
fine. At least our program is doing the main job: downloading the PDF's 
and keeping them in a "rational" library... for you..

Om shanti
Sivakatirswami
www.hinduismtoday.com

> I can go directly to the download folder and open the pdfs without the
program.
> Date: 12/13/08
>
> Home: 
> Platform: Win32
> Machine: x86
> System: NT 5.1
> Environment: standalone application
> Version: 2.8.1
> Screen Bit Depth: 32
> Colors: 4294967296
> Screen Rect: 0,0,1280,800
> Quicktime: 7.1.0
>
>
>   




From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 15 00:17:53 2008
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 21:17:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: open printing, close printing, for print spool job
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812141240x3ac4484dg3e307205ab6f4704@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <588082.36356.qm@web65404.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

--- william humphrey <shoreagent at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks. I will keep trying to figure out why it
> doesn't spool for me...
> 

Hi William,

I don't see a 'print break' anywhere - which means
that every card you print is printed on the same page,
on top of the previous one.

##
on printSomeCards
    global cardsToPrint
    open printing with dialog
    if the result is "Cancel" then exit printSomeCards
    repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines of
cardsToPrint
      print card (line x of cardsToPrint)
      print break
    end repeat
    close printing -- send group of cards to printer
end printSomeCards
##

HTH,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam Reports & PDF Library for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


      


From dam-pro.girard at laposte.net  Mon Dec 15 04:37:01 2008
From: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net (GIRARD Damien)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:37:01 +0100
Subject: [TT] Tintin et Milou.
In-Reply-To: <616703.93179.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <616703.93179.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4946253D.9080007@laposte.net>

Ce n'est pas Mil? mais Milou ;) En Fran?ais ? n'est pas souvent utilis?.

It is not Mil? but Milou in French ;) ? is not oftenly used in French.

And I did not understand what you said Richmond :)

Damien

Richmond Mathewson a ?crit :
> TT- Totally Tangential.
>
> En Fran?ais nous avons Tintin et Mil?, mais les Anglophones ont 'Tintin
> and Snowy'. Grace de Dieu nous n'avons pas Tintin en Bulgarien; c'est sure
> le nomme du chien vas ?tes un cr?t!
>
> Mozhe bi imenata na kuche e "Snezhuk", ot snyak, pralichna na 
> anglijskata imena?
>
> An Ah dinnae thole til quhat an owersetter wid die wi yon white hound
> in war douce lied! Ah jalouse it widnae be ae that mensefu.
>
> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
>
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
> ____________________________________________________________
>
>
>       
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>   



From geradamas at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 15 05:27:12 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 02:27:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TT] Tintin et Milou.
Message-ID: <759871.93202.qm@web37503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Damien wrote:

"And I did not understand what you said Richmond"

Ha, Ha, Ha . . . because my 'French' is really bad; mainly learnt
in Egypt while working for the police there - not the best school
in the world.

I woke up in the night and remembered 'Milou'; presumably 'Mil?'
is the Spanish version.

I stand by the accuracy of my Scots :)

I apologise to Damien and all other French speakers on this
Use-List for raping your beautiful language.

We should, perhaps, remember that Herg? (Georges Rem?) was Belgium;

who died in Mille Neuf Cent Huitante Trois (poor Belgians,
deprived of 'Quatres-Vingt').

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From toolbook at kestner.de  Mon Dec 15 06:00:41 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:00:41 +0100
Subject: How to zip a folder?
Message-ID: <D00F5486E3994AB4AD4C818947272278@Kestner.local>

Hello,

is there something like revZipAddItemWithFile, with which I can zip a
complete folder including files and subfolders, e.g. an app bundle?

Pls tell there is a command!

Thanks for help

Tiemo

 

 

 

 



From toolbook at kestner.de  Mon Dec 15 06:11:12 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:11:12 +0100
Subject: AW: How to zip a folder?
In-Reply-To: <D00F5486E3994AB4AD4C818947272278@Kestner.local>
Message-ID: <4C2887362F164B8D89170EC2FDEFF926@Kestner.local>

In the archives I found the notice: "There's an Automator action for the
Finder called 'create archive'.
But being a Win guy, I don't have an idea, how to work with automator
actions, how to call it, which parameters and how to unzip it.
Perhaps somebody could supply some snippets, probably done a thousand times?
Thank you
Tiemo


> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-
> bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Tiemo Hollmann TB
> Gesendet: Montag, 15. Dezember 2008 12:01
> An: 'How to use Revolution'
> Betreff: How to zip a folder?
> 
> Hello,
> 
> is there something like revZipAddItemWithFile, with which I can zip a
> complete folder including files and subfolders, e.g. an app bundle?
> 
> Pls tell there is a command!
> 
> Thanks for help
> 
> Tiemo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From toolbook at kestner.de  Mon Dec 15 06:16:02 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:16:02 +0100
Subject: AW: How to zip a folder?
In-Reply-To: <4C2887362F164B8D89170EC2FDEFF926@Kestner.local>
Message-ID: <8CE57428AD2847F081C8091C40EFEF67@Kestner.local>


Or any snippets (with parameters) for using the shell for zip a folder and
unzip it?
Tiemo

> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > is there something like revZipAddItemWithFile, with which I can zip a
> > complete folder including files and subfolders, e.g. an app bundle?
> >
> > Pls tell there is a command!
> >
> > Thanks for help
> >
> > Tiemo
> >
> >
> >



From 00bioarchimed at free.fr  Mon Dec 15 06:29:46 2008
From: 00bioarchimed at free.fr (Thierry)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:29:46 +0100
Subject: [TT] Tintin et Milou.
In-Reply-To: <759871.93202.qm@web37503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <759871.93202.qm@web37503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AEEB8A5D-0ED5-476C-AD4F-41FAEDB37191@free.fr>


Le 15 d?c. 08 ? 11:27, Richmond Mathewson a ?crit :

> Damien wrote:
>
> "And I did not understand what you said Richmond"
>
> Ha, Ha, Ha . . . because my 'French' is really bad; mainly learnt
> in Egypt while working for the police there - not the best school
> in the world.
>
> I stand by the accuracy of my Scots :)

I've learnt my English mostly in Australia and
then in Glasgow !!!!

> I apologise to Damien and all other French speakers on this
> Use-List for raping your beautiful language.


please, don't have to....

you make me smile and
remember me to be careful when
I try to write in a sort-of-correct-english :-)

Regards,
Thierry  (  another French guy... )




From shoreagent at gmail.com  Mon Dec 15 06:49:00 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 07:49:00 -0400
Subject: open printing, close printing, for print spool job
In-Reply-To: <588082.36356.qm@web65404.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <459b22a90812141240x3ac4484dg3e307205ab6f4704@mail.gmail.com>
	<588082.36356.qm@web65404.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812150349q38074da7o93ee513803a07a2b@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you very much for the solution. I wish that had been in the RunRev
docs too! I had no idea about the "print break" command and would have never
figured it out without your help.

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 1:17 AM, Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

> --- william humphrey <shoreagent at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thanks. I will keep trying to figure out why it
> > doesn't spool for me...
> >
>
> Hi William,
>
> I don't see a 'print break' anywhere - which means
> that every card you print is printed on the same page,
> on top of the previous one.
>
> ##
> on printSomeCards
>    global cardsToPrint
>    open printing with dialog
>     if the result is "Cancel" then exit printSomeCards
>     repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines of
> cardsToPrint
>       print card (line x of cardsToPrint)
>       print break
>     end repeat
>    close printing -- send group of cards to printer
> end printSomeCards
> ##
>
> HTH,
>
> Jan Schenkel.
>
> Quartam Reports & PDF Library for Revolution
> <http://www.quartam.com>
>
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."
>  (La Rochefoucauld)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.bluewatermaritime.com


From toolbook at kestner.de  Mon Dec 15 08:00:12 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:00:12 +0100
Subject: AW: How to zip a folder?
In-Reply-To: <8CE57428AD2847F081C8091C40EFEF67@Kestner.local>
Message-ID: <F76BF27C09DC42CE869B879B3980AA08@Kestner.local>

Digging hour after hour in the archives, the appropriate approach seems to
be using the shell, but I have found different threads, some using zip, some
tar and all using different parameters and don't know where to look for
these parameters.
Does anybody has a snippet for a shell zip, which works for folders with
subfolders and common file names.
Or a hint, where I can research the parameters for the shell zip on Mac?
As well I didn't found any snippet for unzipping the stuff with the shell.
Does anybody knows. If a Bundle.app Zip on Win, made with WinZip is
compatible with a Rev-Shell unzip on Mac, or do I have to zip it on Mac?
Thanks
Tiemo

> 
> 
> Or any snippets (with parameters) for using the shell for zip a folder and
> unzip it?
> Tiemo
> 
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > is there something like revZipAddItemWithFile, with which I can zip a
> > > complete folder including files and subfolders, e.g. an app bundle?
> > >
> > > Pls tell there is a command!
> > >
> > > Thanks for help
> > >
> > > Tiemo
> > >
> > >
> > >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Dec 15 08:09:43 2008
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:09:43 +0100
Subject: AW: How to zip a folder?
In-Reply-To: <F76BF27C09DC42CE869B879B3980AA08@Kestner.local>
References: <F76BF27C09DC42CE869B879B3980AA08@Kestner.local>
Message-ID: <77E2D96E-F352-414F-9F07-1306011EFE54@major-k.de>

Hi Tiemo,

> Digging hour after hour in the archives, the appropriate approach  
> seems to
> be using the shell, but I have found different threads, some using  
> zip, some
> tar and all using different parameters and don't know where to look  
> for
> these parameters.
> Does anybody has a snippet for a shell zip, which works for folders  
> with
> subfolders and common file names.

Please remember that ZIP is not built-in into Windows (shell) as far  
as I know!

Here is what I use on the Mac to un-/ZIP files and folders, copied  
from one of
current projects:

## ZIP Mac-folder
## zmo = Variable holding a valid path to a folder
put QUOTE & zmo & QUOTE into folder1
put QUOTE & zmo & ".zip" & QUOTE into folder2
get shell("ditto -c -k --rsrc" && folder1 && folder2)
## Preserving the Mac resource fork!

## ZIP a Windows folder
put QUOTE & zwo & QUOTE into folder3
put QUOTE & zwo & ".zip" & QUOTE into folder4
get shell("ditto -c -k --norsrc" && folder3 && folder4)
## NOT Preserving the resource fork!

## UNZIP:
## Mac:
put q(the ims_installer_ordner of this stack & "iDual IMS Mac.zip" )  
into d1
put q(mac_ordner) into d2
get shell("ditto -x -k --rsrc" && d1 && d2)

## Win:
put q(the ims_installer_ordner of this stack & "iDual IMS Win.zip" )  
into d1
put q(win_ordner) into d2
get shell("ditto -x -k --norsrc" && d1 && d2)


Hope these snippets help.

> Or a hint, where I can research the parameters for the shell zip on  
> Mac?

Check "DITTO", enter this into the terminal:
man ditto

> As well I didn't found any snippet for unzipping the stuff with the  
> shell.
> Does anybody knows. If a Bundle.app Zip on Win, made with WinZip is
> compatible with a Rev-Shell unzip on Mac, or do I have to zip it on  
> Mac?

Sorry, no idea.

> Thanks
> Tiemo

Best

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de




From toolbook at kestner.de  Mon Dec 15 08:19:34 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:19:34 +0100
Subject: AW: AW: How to zip a folder?
In-Reply-To: <77E2D96E-F352-414F-9F07-1306011EFE54@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <0C8A54650A36451998B0600DF006C611@Kestner.local>

Hi Klaus,
yes it helps :) though you brought me the third shell tool for Mac: "ditto".
Perhaps you could give me a hint, what the difference / advantage from ditto
to zip or tar is, or why you are using ditto instead of zip or tar?
Thank you
Tiemo

> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-
> bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Klaus Major
> Gesendet: Montag, 15. Dezember 2008 14:10
> An: How to use Revolution
> Betreff: Re: AW: How to zip a folder?
> 
> Hi Tiemo,
> 
> > Digging hour after hour in the archives, the appropriate approach
> > seems to
> > be using the shell, but I have found different threads, some using
> > zip, some
> > tar and all using different parameters and don't know where to look
> > for
> > these parameters.
> > Does anybody has a snippet for a shell zip, which works for folders
> > with
> > subfolders and common file names.
> 
> Please remember that ZIP is not built-in into Windows (shell) as far
> as I know!
> 
> Here is what I use on the Mac to un-/ZIP files and folders, copied
> from one of
> current projects:
> 
> ## ZIP Mac-folder
> ## zmo = Variable holding a valid path to a folder
> put QUOTE & zmo & QUOTE into folder1
> put QUOTE & zmo & ".zip" & QUOTE into folder2
> get shell("ditto -c -k --rsrc" && folder1 && folder2)
> ## Preserving the Mac resource fork!
> 
> ## ZIP a Windows folder
> put QUOTE & zwo & QUOTE into folder3
> put QUOTE & zwo & ".zip" & QUOTE into folder4
> get shell("ditto -c -k --norsrc" && folder3 && folder4)
> ## NOT Preserving the resource fork!
> 
> ## UNZIP:
> ## Mac:
> put q(the ims_installer_ordner of this stack & "iDual IMS Mac.zip" )
> into d1
> put q(mac_ordner) into d2
> get shell("ditto -x -k --rsrc" && d1 && d2)
> 
> ## Win:
> put q(the ims_installer_ordner of this stack & "iDual IMS Win.zip" )
> into d1
> put q(win_ordner) into d2
> get shell("ditto -x -k --norsrc" && d1 && d2)
> 
> 
> Hope these snippets help.
> 
> > Or a hint, where I can research the parameters for the shell zip on
> > Mac?
> 
> Check "DITTO", enter this into the terminal:
> man ditto
> 
> > As well I didn't found any snippet for unzipping the stuff with the
> > shell.
> > Does anybody knows. If a Bundle.app Zip on Win, made with WinZip is
> > compatible with a Rev-Shell unzip on Mac, or do I have to zip it on
> > Mac?
> 
> Sorry, no idea.
> 
> > Thanks
> > Tiemo
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> http://www.major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Dec 15 08:28:32 2008
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:28:32 +0100
Subject: AW: AW: How to zip a folder?
In-Reply-To: <0C8A54650A36451998B0600DF006C611@Kestner.local>
References: <0C8A54650A36451998B0600DF006C611@Kestner.local>
Message-ID: <E2825C2F-E941-44C5-AED7-B19FE9B601E3@major-k.de>

Hi Tiemo,

> Hi Klaus,
> yes it helps :)

Great!

> though you brought me the third shell tool for Mac: "ditto".
> Perhaps you could give me a hint, what the difference / advantage  
> from ditto
> to zip or tar is, or why you are using ditto instead of zip or tar?

Simply because "ditto" is some kind of allround tool.

It can copy, unzip and zip files and folders with or without the Mac  
resource fork,
so why use something else once you figured out the correct syntax? ;-)

> Thank you
> Tiemo


Best

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de




From h at FlexibleLearning.com  Mon Dec 15 09:42:01 2008
From: h at FlexibleLearning.com (Hugh Senior)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:42:01 -0000
Subject: Text Clippings on Windows
In-Reply-To: <20081215130948.BBB7248A517@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONCEJMCBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>



Hugh Senior wrote:
> Thank you, Mark. Looks like Windows cannot do this without lower level
> support. Once again the Mac demonstrates its inate usability superiority
:-)
>
> Is anyone up for writing an external to support text clippings for
Windows?
> Please contact me off list.

Jacqueline Landman Gay wrote:
> If Windows doesn't support this, I wonder if your Windows users will
> even miss it. Or if they will ever try to do it.

Akin to the development of a mouse when all we had was a command line
interface? Agreed, not missed if never had, but a considerable feature
advantage once available.

/H




From rev at armbase.com  Mon Dec 15 10:38:38 2008
From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:38:38 +0000
Subject: Text Clippings on Windows
In-Reply-To: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONCEJMCBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>
References: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONCEJMCBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>
Message-ID: <494679FE.3090705@armbase.com>

Hugh Senior wrote:

Hi All

OKay here is an idea I've not been near rev for a long while and I'm 
sure you can generate the code better than me.

Okay here goes...... it must be possible since when using winzip you can 
drag part of an archive to the desktop to extract so there is no OS bar.

On mousedown
clear ttext
cleat tstack
put the highlighted txt of this field into ttext
put the boundary coordinates of the card/stack into tstack
end mousedown
On mouse up
if the mouse coordinates is outside tstack
create textfile.txt on desktop (Use windows standard path location 
script for this)
paste ttext into textfile.txt
end mouseup

Okay I'm an amateur but surely this can be done like this and probably 
more elegantly.

Cheers
Bob
> Hugh Senior wrote:
>   
>> Thank you, Mark. Looks like Windows cannot do this without lower level
>> support. Once again the Mac demonstrates its inate usability superiority
>>     
> :-)
>   
>> Is anyone up for writing an external to support text clippings for
>>     
> Windows?
>   
>> Please contact me off list.
>>     
>
> Jacqueline Landman Gay wrote:
>   
>> If Windows doesn't support this, I wonder if your Windows users will
>> even miss it. Or if they will ever try to do it.
>>     
>
> Akin to the development of a mouse when all we had was a command line
> interface? Agreed, not missed if never had, but a considerable feature
> advantage once available.
>
> /H
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>   



From mdswindell at cruzio.com  Mon Dec 15 10:38:48 2008
From: mdswindell at cruzio.com (Mark Swindell)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 07:38:48 -0800
Subject: CommandKeyDown in standalone not firing
Message-ID: <6948D591-C2EC-4E4D-B9C8-C3FA642C5F28@cruzio.com>

  I've got a simple stack with a commandKeyDown script in the splash/ 
engine.  It works fine in the development version, but when I make a  
standalone the commandKey combinations no longer fire.  They were all  
working yesterday morning in standalone builds, so I've done  
something, but what?  What would the most obvious culprit(s) be?   
There is no commandKeyDown script anywhere else that would be trapping  
the message. (And if there were, wouldn't it also be trapping in the  
development environment?)

Thanks
Mark


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 15 11:09:02 2008
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 08:09:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Text Clippings on Windows
In-Reply-To: <494679FE.3090705@armbase.com>
Message-ID: <748397.8832.qm@web65412.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

--- Bob Hartley <rev at armbase.com> wrote:
> Hugh Senior wrote:
> 
> Hi All
> 
> OKay here is an idea I've not been near rev for a
> long while and I'm 
> sure you can generate the code better than me.
> 
> Okay here goes...... it must be possible since when
> using winzip you can 
> drag part of an archive to the desktop to extract so
> there is no OS bar.
> 
> On mousedown
> clear ttext
> cleat tstack
> put the highlighted txt of this field into ttext
> put the boundary coordinates of the card/stack into
> tstack
> end mousedown
> On mouse up
> if the mouse coordinates is outside tstack
> create textfile.txt on desktop (Use windows standard
> path location 
> script for this)
> paste ttext into textfile.txt
> end mouseup
> 
> Okay I'm an amateur but surely this can be done like
> this and probably 
> more elegantly.
> 
> Cheers
> Bob
> 

I like a challenge :-)

So I created a new stack, dropped a field onto it and
set its script to:
##
on dragStart
   put the selectedText into theText
   put the tempname into theTempName
   create folder theTempName
   put "/" & char 1 to 32 of line 1 of theText &
".txt" after theTempName
   put theText into URL("file:" & theTempName)
   set the dragData["files"] to theTempName
end dragStart
##

That allowed me to drag sort of a text clipping onto
the desktop. No idea how you'd handle the difference
between dropping into another field or onto the
desktop, but the above is a roundabout way to drop a

Quartam Reports & PDF Library for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


      


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 15 11:10:07 2008
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 08:10:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Text Clippings on Windows
In-Reply-To: <494679FE.3090705@armbase.com>
Message-ID: <505997.30059.qm@web65406.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

--- Bob Hartley <rev at armbase.com> wrote:
> Hugh Senior wrote:
> 
> Hi All
> 
> OKay here is an idea I've not been near rev for a
> long while and I'm 
> sure you can generate the code better than me.
> 
> Okay here goes...... it must be possible since when
> using winzip you can 
> drag part of an archive to the desktop to extract so
> there is no OS bar.
> 
> On mousedown
> clear ttext
> cleat tstack
> put the highlighted txt of this field into ttext
> put the boundary coordinates of the card/stack into
> tstack
> end mousedown
> On mouse up
> if the mouse coordinates is outside tstack
> create textfile.txt on desktop (Use windows standard
> path location 
> script for this)
> paste ttext into textfile.txt
> end mouseup
> 
> Okay I'm an amateur but surely this can be done like
> this and probably 
> more elegantly.
> 
> Cheers
> Bob
> 

I like a challenge :-)

So I created a new stack, dropped a field onto it and
set its script to:
##
on dragStart
   put the selectedText into theText
   put the tempname into theTempName
   create folder theTempName
   put "/" & char 1 to 32 of line 1 of theText &
".txt" after theTempName
   put theText into URL("file:" & theTempName)
   set the dragData["files"] to theTempName
end dragStart
##

That allowed me to drag sort of a text clipping onto
the desktop. No idea how you'd handle the difference
between dropping into another field or onto the
desktop, but the above is a roundabout way to drop a
file onto a Windows explorer window or the desktop.

HTH,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam Reports & PDF Library for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


      


From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Mon Dec 15 13:18:10 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:18:10 -0800
Subject: How to zip a folder?
In-Reply-To: <D00F5486E3994AB4AD4C818947272278@Kestner.local>
References: <D00F5486E3994AB4AD4C818947272278@Kestner.local>
Message-ID: <p06240802c56c4eae4992@[192.168.1.105]>


Tiemo,

I've been down this road before.
Check out the Linux/Unix command

tar


it will 'tar' together the hierarchy into one file, which then can 
easily be zipped.
It not only preserves the files and folders in situ, but also EMPTY 
folders that are required to place the files in exactly the same 
spot.   This allows dropping say, an 'update' folder on top of 
another foldrer and only the files that are represented in the tar 
folder will change  in the receiving folder.


>Hello,
>
>is there something like revZipAddItemWithFile, with which I can zip a
>complete folder including files and subfolders, e.g. an app bundle?
>
>Pls tell there is a command!
>
>Thanks for help
>
>Tiemo
>

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -





From toolbook at kestner.de  Mon Dec 15 13:26:33 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:26:33 +0100
Subject: AW: How to zip a folder?
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c56c4eae4992@[192.168.1.105]>
Message-ID: <5AB0B3F011D34369A0A75867A06A869F@Kestner.local>

Thanks Stephen for your hint!
Tiemo

> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-
> bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Stephen Barncard
> Gesendet: Montag, 15. Dezember 2008 19:18
> An: How to use Revolution
> Betreff: Re: How to zip a folder?
> 
> 
> Tiemo,
> 
> I've been down this road before.
> Check out the Linux/Unix command
> 
> tar
> 
> 
> it will 'tar' together the hierarchy into one file, which then can
> easily be zipped.
> It not only preserves the files and folders in situ, but also EMPTY
> folders that are required to place the files in exactly the same
> spot.   This allows dropping say, an 'update' folder on top of
> another foldrer and only the files that are represented in the tar
> folder will change  in the receiving folder.
> 
> 
> >Hello,
> >
> >is there something like revZipAddItemWithFile, with which I can zip a
> >complete folder including files and subfolders, e.g. an app bundle?
> >
> >Pls tell there is a command!
> >
> >Thanks for help
> >
> >Tiemo
> >
> 
> --
> 
> 
> stephen barncard
> s a n  f r a n c i s c o
> - - -  - - - - - - - - -
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From lyn.teyla at gmail.com  Mon Dec 15 14:23:22 2008
From: lyn.teyla at gmail.com (Lyn Teyla)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:23:22 -0500
Subject: A way to tell if standalone is currently suspended?
Message-ID: <E1LCJ2I-0008Hq-3F@tiger.speednoc.com>

Thanks Mark, that works.

Now, how do you set a stack's window to show
an 'inactive' border?

Let's say you create a standalone that has a
splash screen stack, which then opens a
second stack several seconds later.

During those few seconds you switch to a
different app. When the second stack opens,
it sports a border indicating that it is the
'active' window, even though it isn't!

I would like to set that window to show an
'inactive' border upon detecting that the
app is in the background (in fact, aren't
things like that supposed to be handled by
Revolution)?

This issue occurs on all platforms.

Is there a built-in command (or some kind
of workaround) that lets you set a window's
border to show an 'inactive' state?

Lyn



Mark wrote:

> An easy way to do this:
> 
> on suspend
>  set the suspended of this stack to true
> end susped
> 
> on resume
>  set the suspended of this stack to false
> end resume
> 
> 
> ...if the suspended of this stack then...
>
> On 13 dec 2008, at 11:30, Lyn Teyla wrote:
>> 
>> Is there a way to tell (from within the standalone)
>> if a standalone is currently suspended (a different
>> app is in the foreground)?


From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com  Mon Dec 15 14:26:36 2008
From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:26:36 -0800
Subject: Get Referals through Our Valentina Testimonials and Consulting List
Message-ID: <0272E1AF137E47798933C847FC0AEE2A@GATEWAY>

Hello all,

There is a major, major forthcoming release of Valentina, and Paradigma is
rebuilding its list of testimonials and consultants listing to go along with
the new website that's under construction now (and almost completed).

We are looking for two things:

1. Testimonial statements. If you use Valentina, tell us what you like about
it; the more specific you can be, the better. Stories how Valentina leaves
all competitors in the dust are always well loved. We can also include a
link with this, which is very appropriate if you arent a consultant (such as
IT staff implementing Valentina in a school or business, etc).

2. Consultant Entries. This is a simply a list with company name, link and
2-3 concise sentences about your business. You should include the
"competency area", like Revolution, .net, etc. For this particular list, you
should have some experience using Valentina.

I can't tell you how many times we've been called asking for referrals for
consultants who know Valentina and development environment X. Those calls
ask for specific knowledge in a system.

Here's in specific what we'd like to see:

URL: your domain
Testimonial: lots of gushing love and reasons why you love it
About You: Your 2-3 sentence description above

This information will be used primarily on the new website, but could also
make it into printed materials, bobblehead dolls, etc and flaunted before
the eyes, noses and other sensory organs of the press. Don't forget that
MacWorld is just a few weeks away....

By sending us this information, it means you are granting us an unlimited
right to use it wherever, whenever, whatever, forever. That's about as
legalese as Id like to get on this.

We need this information ASAP, especially to take advantage of our relaunch,
when more eyes will be upon us.

For the time being, just email these directly to me at my gmail account at
lynn.fredricks at gmail.com. A nice form is coming with the new website, but
that won't be until post launch.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 



From revolution at derbrill.de  Mon Dec 15 15:12:05 2008
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:12:05 +0100
Subject: test
In-Reply-To: <20081215180005.6743F488EA5@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20081215180005.6743F488EA5@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <07B32BCC-A0D9-4FC0-A8CE-CB1C022A15B7@derbrill.de>

bounce?
--
Malte Brill
CEO derbrill Multimedia
CTO awesome mega mighty games
Steuernummer:  28 015 03865
Tel: +49 4331 337 977 7
email: info at derbrill.de
             malte at awesomemegamightygames.com



From revolution at derbrill.de  Mon Dec 15 15:20:02 2008
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:20:02 +0100
Subject: MouseMove . . . err?
In-Reply-To: <20081215180005.6743F488EA5@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20081215180005.6743F488EA5@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <46104FB9-46EC-4505-91E6-95182948F541@derbrill.de>

Yippieh! I may post again thanks Heather :)

Sorry I am latre for the party, but somehow my mail bounced. Just  
wanted to throw in a snippet.

Thanks for mentioning AE Nicolas. :)

Tom: With AE in use, constraining on any line is a one liner.

set the constrainLinear of btn "myButton" to 100,100,200,100


And here is what I think Richmond wanted (although I am never too sure  
I get you right Richmond), also it is not half as cool as lemmings by  
Master Scott <g>


A stack with 5 buttons: start, x1,x2,x3,x4

In a button "start":

global speed

on mouseUp
  set the flag of me to not the flag of me
  put 15 into speed
-- play with the value of speed
  checkMouse
end mouseUp

on checkmouse
   local tStart,tEnd,newx,newy
   lock screen
   put the ux of btn "x1",the uy of btn "x1" into tStart
   put (item 1 of the mouseLoc-the uX of btn "x1")/speed + the uX of  
btn "x1" into newX
   put (item 2 of the mouseLoc-the uY of btn "x1")/speed + the uY of  
btn "x1" into newy
   set the uX of btn "x1" to newX
   set the uY of btn "x1" to newY
   set the loc of btn "x1" to newx -40,newy-40
   set the loc of btn "x2" to newx +40,newy-40
   set the loc of btn "x3" to newx +40,newy+40
   set the loc of btn "x4" to newx -40,newy+40
   unlock screen
   if the flag of me then
      send "checkmouse" to me in 30 milliseconds
   end if
end checkmouse

Click the button to make x1,x2,x3,x4 follow with a nice little easing  
effect. Click again to stop.
Maybe I?ll get around to generalize something like this for the next AE.

Cheers,

Malte  (happy to get through again)
--
Malte Brill
CEO derbrill Multimedia
CTO awesome mega mighty games
Steuernummer:  28 015 03865
Tel: +49 4331 337 977 7
email: info at derbrill.de
             malte at awesomemegamightygames.com



From geradamas at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 15 16:23:03 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:23:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MouseMove . . . err?
Message-ID: <276536.84625.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Malte Brill wrote:

"And here is what I think Richmond wanted (although I am never too sure  
I get you right Richmond)"

Well . . .

1. Thank you very much.

2. As you can probably see from my earlier posting, I managed to achieve 
what I wanted by setting the moveSpeed to 65535.

3. "getting Richmond right" is never easy because a lot of requests
that I post on the Use-List are by-products of my thinking my way towards
a solution to one question, often resulting in my discovering ways of
doing other things. Often I am hard-put to answer what I am exactly 
looking for when I ask a question. But I was brought up in the Socratic
and Wittgensteinian tradition where, perhaps, the questions are more
important than the, eventual, answers; and the ideas and answers that
occur on the way towards some eventual solution can both open up new 
avenues of enquiry and provide answers to questions previously asked
elsewhere.

As my main programming activities are largely concerned with "fill in the
gaps" and "drag and drop" EFL stuff (which gets pretty boring a lot of 
the time), I stimulate my brain with all the sorts of questions / problems
I throw up on the Use-List.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Dec 15 16:25:24 2008
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:25:24 -0800
Subject: MouseMove . . . err?
In-Reply-To: <46104FB9-46EC-4505-91E6-95182948F541@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <C56C0B44.3E3A7%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Malte Brill wrote:

> Just wanted to throw in a snippet.
> 
> Thanks for mentioning AE Nicolas. :)
> 
> Tom: With AE in use, constraining on any line is a one liner.
> 
> set the constrainLinear of btn "myButton" to 100,100,200,100
> 
> 
> And here is what I think Richmond wanted (although I am never too sure
> I get you right Richmond)


Really nice, Malte!  The simple ease adds an excellent organic subtlety to
the movement.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design




From bobs at twft.com  Mon Dec 15 16:32:23 2008
From: bobs at twft.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:32:23 -0800
Subject: MouseMove . . . err?
In-Reply-To: <C56C0B44.3E3A7%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <C56C0B44.3E3A7%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <6620E5F2-A58C-47A7-87CB-DD880E6D641C@twft.com>

Yeah! And it's simple too! ;-)

Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM

On Dec 15, 2008, at 1:25 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, Malte Brill wrote:
>
>> Just wanted to throw in a snippet.
>>
>> Thanks for mentioning AE Nicolas. :)
>>
>> Tom: With AE in use, constraining on any line is a one liner.
>>
>> set the constrainLinear of btn "myButton" to 100,100,200,100
>>
>>
>> And here is what I think Richmond wanted (although I am never too  
>> sure
>> I get you right Richmond)
>
>
> Really nice, Malte!  The simple ease adds an excellent organic  
> subtlety to
> the movement.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 15 17:30:23 2008
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:30:23 -0800
Subject: AW: How to zip a folder?
In-Reply-To: <F76BF27C09DC42CE869B879B3980AA08@Kestner.local>
Message-ID: <C56C1A7F.53E57%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Read these notes and see if this makes sense to yo

------
1) tar and zip it     tar -c -z -f MyApplication.tar.gz MyApplication.app
2) unzip it later     tar -xzf MyApplication.tar.gz
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.ide.revolution.user/114019/match=compres
s+folder+shell


on zCompressFolder fullPathFolder
  set the defaultfolder to fullPathFolder
--the defaultFolder is what the shell command considers the current dir

  put (the seconds & "_ORG.zip") into zipfolder
--set a unique file name

  put ("tar -c -z -f "& zipfolder &".tar.gz _ORGANIZATION") into cmd
--since there is no 'target folder' specified, tar considers the current dir

  put shell(cmd) into status
end zCompressRoot
--read the status variable to find any errors reported by tar
--duplicate file names and folder names do NOT produce errors

Jim Ault
Las Vegas



On 12/15/08 5:00 AM, "Tiemo Hollmann TB" <toolbook at kestner.de> wrote:

> Digging hour after hour in the archives, the appropriate approach seems to
> be using the shell, but I have found different threads, some using zip, some
> tar and all using different parameters and don't know where to look for
> these parameters.
> Does anybody has a snippet for a shell zip, which works for folders with
> subfolders and common file names.
> Or a hint, where I can research the parameters for the shell zip on Mac?
> As well I didn't found any snippet for unzipping the stuff with the shell.
> Does anybody knows. If a Bundle.app Zip on Win, made with WinZip is
> compatible with a Rev-Shell unzip on Mac, or do I have to zip it on Mac?
> Thanks
> Tiemo
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Or any snippets (with parameters) for using the shell for zip a folder and
>> unzip it?
>> Tiemo
>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hello,
>>>> 
>>>> is there something like revZipAddItemWithFile, with which I can zip a
>>>> complete folder including files and subfolders, e.g. an app bundle?
>>>> 
>>>> Pls tell there is a command!
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for help
>>>> 
>>>> Tiemo
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From pmbrig at gmail.com  Mon Dec 15 17:50:53 2008
From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter Brigham)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:50:53 -0500
Subject: Rev printing woes in Leopard
Message-ID: <98280FF5-E529-4601-98D6-7D1C5E3BA017@gmail.com>

My problem with slow printing turned out to be a problem with using  
the wrong Brother printer driver. Not sure why it was so much worse  
when printing from Rev, but all works as before -- even faster, since  
I now have a 2GHz machine! Joe (Wilkins), I'm back to storing my  
printerSettings in a custom property and unloading them on the fly,  
and it works fine again. I took your suggestion and eliminated that  
feature temporarily and when that didn't help, it pointed me back in  
the direction of looking at the drivers. Thanks, your response wasn't  
the solution but it helped me get there.

Peter M. Brigham
pmbrig at gmail.com


From pepetoo at cox.net  Mon Dec 15 18:37:09 2008
From: pepetoo at cox.net (Joe Lewis Wilkins)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:37:09 -0800
Subject: Rev printing woes in Leopard
In-Reply-To: <98280FF5-E529-4601-98D6-7D1C5E3BA017@gmail.com>
References: <98280FF5-E529-4601-98D6-7D1C5E3BA017@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6A6CD418-3799-4646-81D3-FB0E762EB41C@cox.net>

Great, Peter. Drivers are often the culprit.

Joe Wilkins

On Dec 15, 2008, at 2:50 PM, Peter Brigham wrote:

> My problem with slow printing turned out to be a problem with using  
> the wrong Brother printer driver. Not sure why it was so much worse  
> when printing from Rev, but all works as before -- even faster,  
> since I now have a 2GHz machine! Joe (Wilkins), I'm back to storing  
> my printerSettings in a custom property and unloading them on the  
> fly, and it works fine again. I took your suggestion and eliminated  
> that feature temporarily and when that didn't help, it pointed me  
> back in the direction of looking at the drivers. Thanks, your  
> response wasn't the solution but it helped me get there.
>
> Peter M. Brigham
> pmbrig at gmail.com






From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 16 00:02:45 2008
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:02:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: open printing, close printing, for print spool job
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812150349q38074da7o93ee513803a07a2b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <211753.87062.qm@web65404.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

--- william humphrey <shoreagent at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you very much for the solution. I wish that
> had been in the RunRev
> docs too! I had no idea about the "print break"
> command and would have never
> figured it out without your help.
> 

Well, when you use 'print stack' or 'print marked
cards' then Revolution figures out how large the cards
are and how much fits onto the paper, moves downwards
to print the second card on the same page, jumps to
the next page, etc.

But when you're taking over the printing process by
using individual 'print card' commands, you get the
opportunity to decide this yourself. With great power
comes great responsibility - oh, wait, that was
Spiderman, right? :-)

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam Reports & PDF Library for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


      


From jiro at ronri-kobo.com  Tue Dec 16 02:16:15 2008
From: jiro at ronri-kobo.com (Jiro Harada)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 16:16:15 +0900
Subject: [ANN] F-ab 2.6.1
Message-ID: <2B516E20-5803-4092-B06D-6CFAEAFAFAB8@ronri-kobo.com>

Hello,

F-ab 2.6.1 is now available for download.
F-ab 2.6.1 is a simple browser for Flash movies. It is created by  
Runtime Revolution 3.0. In this application, Flash movies are  
identified by channels instead of URLs. Currently 1400 or more high- 
quality Flash movies are registered in the channels.

In this version, the application can be controlled by voice commands.  
For example, say "one", "two", "three" and "four" with intervals to  
change the channel to 1234. And say "start" to play the movie. To  
recognize the voice commands, F-ab uses Sphinx-4, which is a speech  
recognition system written in Java. Visit http:// 
cmusphinx.sourceforge.net/sphinx4/ for more information about Sphinx-4.

Currently F-ab has 38 voice commands, which are very simple English  
words. A word that you utter is always compared with the standard  
pronunciation and the confidence score is calculated. The default  
setting is not taken as a command if the confidence score is less  
than 70(full mark:100). This setting can be changed in the  
Preferences menu of F-ab.

The work on confidence scores in Sphinx-4 is still experimental.  
Errors(java.lang.NullPointerException, java.lang.Error) might occur  
while calculating confidence scores. If the errors occur frequently,  
try to increase the Java virtual machine memory. You can increase it  
in the Preferences menu of F-ab.


Minimum Requirements:
- Internet Connection: Cable or DSL
- OS: Windows XP or Vista, Mac OS 10.4 or 10.5
- Memory: 512 MB of RAM
- Screen Resolution: 1024 x 768 or higher
- Java Runtime Environment 5 or 6

Recommended:
- Graphics card
- Microphone
- Web camera

Download:
http://www.f-ab.net/

Best regards,
Jiro Harada



From toolbook at kestner.de  Tue Dec 16 03:00:57 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:00:57 +0100
Subject: AW: AW: How to zip a folder?
In-Reply-To: <C56C1A7F.53E57%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <F7056FE1BDB84377A5689D2EDD05B758@Kestner.local>

Thank you Jim!
Tiemo

> 
> Read these notes and see if this makes sense to yo
> 
> ------
> 1) tar and zip it     tar -c -z -f MyApplication.tar.gz MyApplication.app
> 2) unzip it later     tar -xzf MyApplication.tar.gz
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.ide.revolution.user/114019/match=compr
> es
> s+folder+shell
> 
> 
> on zCompressFolder fullPathFolder
>   set the defaultfolder to fullPathFolder
> --the defaultFolder is what the shell command considers the current dir
> 
>   put (the seconds & "_ORG.zip") into zipfolder
> --set a unique file name
> 
>   put ("tar -c -z -f "& zipfolder &".tar.gz _ORGANIZATION") into cmd
> --since there is no 'target folder' specified, tar considers the current
> dir
> 
>   put shell(cmd) into status
> end zCompressRoot
> --read the status variable to find any errors reported by tar
> --duplicate file names and folder names do NOT produce errors
> 
> Jim Ault
> Las Vegas
> 




From iangmcknight at googlemail.com  Tue Dec 16 22:24:41 2008
From: iangmcknight at googlemail.com (Ian McKnight)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 03:24:41 +0000
Subject: test msg - please ignore
Message-ID: <c935444f0812161924p1076d066ud83afe59e010156b@mail.gmail.com>

--
Regards


Ian McKnight

iangmcknight at googlemail.com
=======================


From rev at armbase.com  Wed Dec 17 05:43:35 2008
From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:43:35 +0000
Subject: OT: Apple Announces Its Last Year at Macworld
In-Reply-To: <748397.8832.qm@web65412.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <748397.8832.qm@web65412.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4948D7D7.807@armbase.com>

No it is not april fool's day.

Apple are no longer going to attend macworld. And no Jobs there as well.
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2008/12/16macworld.html

Bob


From toolbook at kestner.de  Wed Dec 17 06:50:13 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 12:50:13 +0100
Subject: Where do I find a list of resource types?
Message-ID: <C69D9E1D490D439CB4C9074BA271B212@Kestner.local>

Hello,

I want to replace with an updater a file in another app with copyResource(),
but I don't find the needed resource type of a file, which I need as a
parameter for copyResource. In the docs I have found "XCMD", but I don't
know, what it stands for and if it is valid for all type of files?

Can anybody give me a hint to a resource type list?

Thanks

Tiemo

 

 

 



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Dec 17 06:57:14 2008
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim Sims)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 12:57:14 +0100
Subject: rev cgi connect to a mysql database on jaguarPC problem
Message-ID: <1FEA5A3B-F117-46AA-AD77-B396DF411783@ezpzapps.com>

I'm trying to have a rev cgi connect to a mysql database on jaguarPC

I uploaded the driver dbmysql.bundle to the cgi-bin on jaguarPC and  
gave it 0755 permissions

I uploaded a rev stack (dbtest.rev) with the script (shown below) to  
the cgi-bin on jaguarPC and gave it 0755 permissions

I also uploaded a text file named  dbtest.cgi   (with text shown  
below), saved with unix endings, also 0755
-------
#!revolution -ui

on startup
     library "dbtest.rev"
end startup
----------



When I try to connect with my browser using  http://ezpzapps.net/cgi-bin/dbtest.cgi?
I get "The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration  
and was unable to complete your request."

Can anyone provide a clue as to what I am doing wrong?


on librarystack

    put $QUERY_STRING into    theTerms

--  NOTE:  NAME, PASSWORD,DB NAME all changed in this example of what  
I uploaded
--  NOTE: "localhost"  is shown as I have it on the server

   put "NAME" into dbUser
   put "PASSWORD" into dbPass
   put fld "DB NAME" into dbName
    put "localhost" into dbAddr
   put revOpenDatabase("MySQL",dbAddr,dbName,dbUser,dbPass) into  
dbresult
   if dbresult is a number then
     put dbresult into buffer
   else
    put "WRONG" into buffer
   end if
       put "Content-Type: text/html" & cr & cr


       put  buffer
end librarystack


sims

sims at ezpzapps.com
Skype:   sims.jim
iChat:   techietours
______________________
Opportunity by Design






From effendi at wanadoo.fr  Wed Dec 17 07:05:16 2008
From: effendi at wanadoo.fr (Francis Nugent Dixon)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:05:16 +0100
Subject: F-ab 2.6.1
Message-ID: <7E6548B2-B389-4C5C-9F3A-10F3E01A96A1@wanadoo.fr>

Hi from Paris,

I downloaded F-ab 2.6.1, and then played around
with it, thinking I could get back to work in
about 10 minutes.

My mistake ! - I spent hours on it, and will
certainly return during the weekend to see more.

Absolutely fascinating - Congratulations to
Jiro Harada for his work.

I spent some time building a stack to play
my favourite UTube videos. Now I can throw
it away ........

-Francis



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Dec 17 07:48:45 2008
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim Sims)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:48:45 +0100
Subject: What database driver for JaguarPC is needed?
Message-ID: <706EF141-6B15-4F5D-BCA4-BD225F107DE0@ezpzapps.com>

		
What version database driver for JaguarPC is needed?

Is one needed?

Does it go into the cgi-bin?

Does it need 0755 permissions?


sims

sims at ezpzapps.com
Skype:   sims.jim
iChat:   techietours
______________________
Opportunity by Design






From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 17 08:13:43 2008
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:13:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Where do I find a list of resource types?
In-Reply-To: <C69D9E1D490D439CB4C9074BA271B212@Kestner.local>
Message-ID: <883425.17898.qm@web65404.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

--- Tiemo Hollmann TB <toolbook at kestner.de> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I want to replace with an updater a file in another
> app with copyResource(),
> but I don't find the needed resource type of a file,
> which I need as a
> parameter for copyResource. In the docs I have found
> "XCMD", but I don't
> know, what it stands for and if it is valid for all
> type of files?
> 
> Can anybody give me a hint to a resource type list?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tiemo
> 

Hi Tiemo,

Rather than copying rezsources one at a time, you may
want to read the entire resource fork in one go and
write that out.

##
on CopyFile pFilePath, pDestPath
  put URL ("binfile:" & pFilePath) into tDataFork
  put URL ("resfile:" & pFilePath) into tRsrcFork
  put tDataFork into URL ("binfile:" & pDestPath)
  put tRsrcFork into URL ("resfile:" & pDestPath)
end CopyFile
##

Of course, you can store the data and resource forks
inside custom properties for your updater to spit out
again.

HTH,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam Reports & PDF Library for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


      


From toolbook at kestner.de  Wed Dec 17 08:32:13 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:32:13 +0100
Subject: AW: Where do I find a list of resource types?
In-Reply-To: <883425.17898.qm@web65404.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1362A1087FA4400B98BACADC24ADFF1E@Kestner.local>

Hi Jan,
I have created two different modes in my updater
1. complete bundle.app (works)
2. single file (stack, external,...) within a bundle
For the second option I was looking for a copy/replace file of asingle
resource file, not the entire resource fork. That?s why I was looking at
copyResource() and the resource type.
For your approach I would need a binfile and a resfile, what I wanted to
avoid. Coming from Windows resource forks are suspicious :). Actually I
don't even know exactly what a resource fork is...
Or is it not possible at all to replace an existing file in a bundle without
changing the resource fork?
Thanks for any claryfing
Tiemo 

> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-
> bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Jan Schenkel
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 17. Dezember 2008 14:14
> An: How to use Revolution
> Betreff: Re: Where do I find a list of resource types?
> 
> --- Tiemo Hollmann TB <toolbook at kestner.de> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I want to replace with an updater a file in another
> > app with copyResource(),
> > but I don't find the needed resource type of a file,
> > which I need as a
> > parameter for copyResource. In the docs I have found
> > "XCMD", but I don't
> > know, what it stands for and if it is valid for all
> > type of files?
> >
> > Can anybody give me a hint to a resource type list?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Tiemo
> >
> 
> Hi Tiemo,
> 
> Rather than copying rezsources one at a time, you may
> want to read the entire resource fork in one go and
> write that out.
> 
> ##
> on CopyFile pFilePath, pDestPath
>   put URL ("binfile:" & pFilePath) into tDataFork
>   put URL ("resfile:" & pFilePath) into tRsrcFork
>   put tDataFork into URL ("binfile:" & pDestPath)
>   put tRsrcFork into URL ("resfile:" & pDestPath)
> end CopyFile
> ##
> 
> Of course, you can store the data and resource forks
> inside custom properties for your updater to spit out
> again.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Jan Schenkel.
> 
> Quartam Reports & PDF Library for Revolution
> <http://www.quartam.com>
> 
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."
> (La Rochefoucauld)
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Dec 17 08:39:05 2008
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:39:05 +0100
Subject: AW: Where do I find a list of resource types?
In-Reply-To: <1362A1087FA4400B98BACADC24ADFF1E@Kestner.local>
References: <1362A1087FA4400B98BACADC24ADFF1E@Kestner.local>
Message-ID: <39808AA9-FC57-4B69-8A44-C3482C6FA7A9@major-k.de>

Hi Tiemo and Jan

> Hi Jan,
> I have created two different modes in my updater
> 1. complete bundle.app (works)
> 2. single file (stack, external,...) within a bundle
> For the second option I was looking for a copy/replace file of asingle
> resource file, not the entire resource fork. That?s why I was  
> looking at
> copyResource() and the resource type.
> For your approach I would need a binfile and a resfile, what I  
> wanted to
> avoid. Coming from Windows resource forks are suspicious :).  
> Actually I
> don't even know exactly what a resource fork is...
> Or is it not possible at all to replace an existing file in a bundle  
> without
> changing the resource fork?

I think you should first compare/check what you both mean by  
"resource"! :-)

For old Mac users, like Jan and me, this is a "relict" from old Mac OS  
< 9 days,
when icons, sounds etc. were stored INSIDE of the (application) file(s).

I think Tiemo wants to replace some parts of a (binary) file, right?
If yes then you can simply replace (with "ditto" :-) for example these  
complete
files even when they are currently being used.

> Thanks for any claryfing
> Tiemo

Best

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de




From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Dec 17 08:40:53 2008
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim Sims)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:40:53 +0100
Subject: CGI MySQL Drivers What next?
Message-ID: <BCE7B44B-59FE-464C-A9BE-DC844658C213@ezpzapps.com>

I tested my .cgi file by modifying the rev stack to return "Hello" so  
I know
that works. I changed the rev stack back to script shown below.

I am using the Linux standalone engine (renamed to revolution) and the  
database driver
  dbmysql.so   from the Rev 2.9.0-gm-1  enterprise version.

All are 0755 permissions.

Database works from Firefox.

Still no happiness from my Rev cgi.

Anyone have a clue for me as to what I am doing wrong?

-----------------
on librarystack

    put $QUERY_STRING into   theTerms


   put "USER" into dbUser    -- THE REAL ONE WORKS FROM FIREFOX
   put "PASSWORD" into dbPass  -- THE REAL ONE WORKS FROM FIREFOX
   put  "jezpzapp_tester" into dbName
    put "localhost" into dbAddr
    put revOpenDatabase("MySQL",dbAddr,dbName,dbUser,dbPass) into  
dbresult
   if dbresult is a number then
     put dbresult into buffer
   else
    put "WRONG" into buffer
   end if
       put "Content-Type: text/html" & cr & cr


       put  buffer
end librarystack
-----------------


sims

sims at ezpzapps.com
Skype:   sims.jim   or  techietours
iChat:   techietours
______________________
Opportunity by Design






From toolbook at kestner.de  Wed Dec 17 08:51:53 2008
From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:51:53 +0100
Subject: AW: AW: Where do I find a list of resource types?
In-Reply-To: <39808AA9-FC57-4B69-8A44-C3482C6FA7A9@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <B2B3E5341E1042F599EAF01A67DB0F32@Kestner.local>

Hi Klaus,
you are right, sometimes statement definition is useful! In my case it is a
file (stack, external) in a bundle.app
AND
I should have known, that ditto does the job :) ditto makes your day as I've
learned!
You don't just have the ditto parameters on hand for doing that job? Or are
they the same, as copying "normal" files? 
Thanks
Tiemo

> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-
> bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Klaus Major
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 17. Dezember 2008 14:39
> An: How to use Revolution
> Betreff: Re: AW: Where do I find a list of resource types?
> 
> Hi Tiemo and Jan
> 
> > Hi Jan,
> > I have created two different modes in my updater
> > 1. complete bundle.app (works)
> > 2. single file (stack, external,...) within a bundle
> > For the second option I was looking for a copy/replace file of asingle
> > resource file, not the entire resource fork. That?s why I was
> > looking at
> > copyResource() and the resource type.
> > For your approach I would need a binfile and a resfile, what I
> > wanted to
> > avoid. Coming from Windows resource forks are suspicious :).
> > Actually I
> > don't even know exactly what a resource fork is...
> > Or is it not possible at all to replace an existing file in a bundle
> > without
> > changing the resource fork?
> 
> I think you should first compare/check what you both mean by
> "resource"! :-)
> 
> For old Mac users, like Jan and me, this is a "relict" from old Mac OS
> < 9 days,
> when icons, sounds etc. were stored INSIDE of the (application) file(s).
> 
> I think Tiemo wants to replace some parts of a (binary) file, right?
> If yes then you can simply replace (with "ditto" :-) for example these
> complete
> files even when they are currently being used.
> 
> > Thanks for any claryfing
> > Tiemo
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> http://www.major-k.de
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Dec 17 08:56:08 2008
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:56:08 +0100
Subject: AW: AW: Where do I find a list of resource types?
In-Reply-To: <B2B3E5341E1042F599EAF01A67DB0F32@Kestner.local>
References: <B2B3E5341E1042F599EAF01A67DB0F32@Kestner.local>
Message-ID: <4C02E3FD-57D6-4323-8FCA-26C779A17FB7@major-k.de>

Hi Tiemo,

> Hi Klaus,
> you are right, sometimes statement definition is useful! In my case  
> it is a
> file (stack, external) in a bundle.app

ah, I love being right :-D

> AND
> I should have known, that ditto does the job :) ditto makes your day  
> as I've
> learned!

EXACTLY!

> You don't just have the ditto parameters on hand for doing that job?  
> Or are
> they the same, as copying "normal" files?

I will send you the manpage for ditto offlist, since this might exceed  
the max size of
postings to this list.

> Thanks
> Tiemo


Best

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From lists at futilism.com  Wed Dec 17 09:38:55 2008
From: lists at futilism.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:38:55 +0000
Subject: CGI MySQL Drivers What next?
In-Reply-To: <BCE7B44B-59FE-464C-A9BE-DC844658C213@ezpzapps.com>
References: <BCE7B44B-59FE-464C-A9BE-DC844658C213@ezpzapps.com>
Message-ID: <43D26BAE-3CA2-4F28-805A-F63C13B59F38@futilism.com>

Jim, do you have the externals of the stack set to the right path to  
dbmysql.so? (I think the path needs to be relative to where the  
revolution engine is.)

best,

Mark

On 17 Dec 2008, at 13:40, Jim Sims wrote:

> I tested my .cgi file by modifying the rev stack to return "Hello"  
> so I know
> that works. I changed the rev stack back to script shown below.
>
> I am using the Linux standalone engine (renamed to revolution) and  
> the database driver
>  dbmysql.so   from the Rev 2.9.0-gm-1  enterprise version.
>
> All are 0755 permissions.
>
> Database works from Firefox.
>
> Still no happiness from my Rev cgi.
>
> Anyone have a clue for me as to what I am doing wrong?
>
> -----------------
> on librarystack
>
>    put $QUERY_STRING into   theTerms
>
>
>   put "USER" into dbUser    -- THE REAL ONE WORKS FROM FIREFOX
>   put "PASSWORD" into dbPass  -- THE REAL ONE WORKS FROM FIREFOX
>   put  "jezpzapp_tester" into dbName
>    put "localhost" into dbAddr
>    put revOpenDatabase("MySQL",dbAddr,dbName,dbUser,dbPass) into  
> dbresult
>   if dbresult is a number then
>     put dbresult into buffer
>   else
>    put "WRONG" into buffer
>   end if
>       put "Content-Type: text/html" & cr & cr
>
>
>       put  buffer
> end librarystack
> -----------------
>
>
> sims
>
> sims at ezpzapps.com
> Skype:   sims.jim   or  techietours
> iChat:   techietours
> ______________________
> Opportunity by Design
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Dec 17 09:44:28 2008
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim Sims)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:44:28 +0100
Subject: CGI MySQL Drivers What next?
In-Reply-To: <43D26BAE-3CA2-4F28-805A-F63C13B59F38@futilism.com>
References: <BCE7B44B-59FE-464C-A9BE-DC844658C213@ezpzapps.com>
	<43D26BAE-3CA2-4F28-805A-F63C13B59F38@futilism.com>
Message-ID: <0A3DFAFB-26EE-4FCF-9137-2BE365625C02@ezpzapps.com>


On Dec 17, 2008, at 3:38 PM, Mark Smith wrote:

> Jim, do you have the externals of the stack set to the right path to  
> dbmysql.so? (I think the path needs to be relative to where the  
> revolution engine is.)

The externals (dbmysql.so  &  revdb.so) are in the cgi-bin with  
everything else. In that
case they should just work, yes?


Do I need to do a "start using"  with these externals  or do something  
which
loads/activates them?



sims

sims at ezpzapps.com
Skype:   sims.jim
iChat:   techietours
______________________
Opportunity by Design






From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Dec 17 10:25:36 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 07:25:36 -0800
Subject: AW: Where do I find a list of resource types?
Message-ID: <494919F0.7080609@fourthworld.com>

Filtering the Rev dictionary with "resource" shows these five functions:

copyResource
deleteResource
getResource
getResources
setResource

Briefly scanning the descriptions for each, it seems you can find a list 
of resources and their types with getResources, and copy them to another 
file such as a standalone with copyResources.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From shoreagent at gmail.com  Wed Dec 17 11:02:24 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 12:02:24 -0400
Subject: Table field text formating
Message-ID: <459b22a90812170802p31aef3a3oeb0c1d1955411623@mail.gmail.com>

I keep running into this problem and making work-arounds that are not at all
elegant. It would sure be wonderful if you could set the alignment in one
column of a table field to "right" and the next column in the same table
field to another alignment say "left".
Is there a way to do this?


From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Dec 17 11:26:46 2008
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim Sims)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:26:46 +0100
Subject: JaguarPC  -  Rev  -  MySQL
Message-ID: <DE7DB41F-E6BF-4356-85A3-F8D442AB9F6B@ezpzapps.com>

Anyone using JaguarPC & a Rev  CGI to connect to MySQL?

I MUST get this working today, if at all possible.

What Linux engine & DB driver versions are you using?

Any tips are most welcomed.


sims

sims at ezpzapps.com
Skype:   techietours
iChat:   techietours
______________________
Opportunity by Design






From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 17 11:52:15 2008
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 08:52:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: JaguarPC  -  Rev  -  MySQL
In-Reply-To: <DE7DB41F-E6BF-4356-85A3-F8D442AB9F6B@ezpzapps.com>
Message-ID: <320910.81573.qm@web65413.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

--- Jim Sims <sims at ezpzapps.com> wrote:
> Anyone using JaguarPC & a Rev  CGI to connect to
> MySQL?
> 
> I MUST get this working today, if at all possible.
> 
> What Linux engine & DB driver versions are you
> using?
> 
> Any tips are most welcomed.
> 
> 
> sims
> 

Hi sims,

Some quick ideas:
- do you have the revdb.so and the dbmysql.so in the
same directory? 
- have you tried wrapping it in a 'try' and putting
the error from a 'catch' block?
- have you tried the 'revSetDatabaseDriverPath'
command to point to the directory where the
'dbmysql.so' is stored?
- in your 'revOpenDatabase' call, are you using
lowercase "mysql" for the database type?

HTH,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam Reports & PDF Library for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


      


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 17 11:55:03 2008
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 08:55:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812170802p31aef3a3oeb0c1d1955411623@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <140409.12344.qm@web65409.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

--- william humphrey <shoreagent at gmail.com> wrote:
> I keep running into this problem and making
> work-arounds that are not at all
> elegant. It would sure be wonderful if you could set
> the alignment in one
> column of a table field to "right" and the next
> column in the same table
> field to another alignment say "left".
> Is there a way to do this?
> 

I'm afraid not. The closest you'll get is by using
multiple fields and making them scroll and hilite
lines in unison; but then you'll also have to fill
them in one column at a time.

Hopefully we will one day have a true table control,
or some kind sould builds a reusable table group which
takes care of this for Rev developers.

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam Reports & PDF Library for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


      


From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Dec 17 12:06:04 2008
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim Sims)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:06:04 +0100
Subject: JaguarPC  -  Rev  -  MySQL
In-Reply-To: <320910.81573.qm@web65413.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <320910.81573.qm@web65413.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A4AA059D-DC8F-4321-B0A7-4C622C98C40F@ezpzapps.com>


On Dec 17, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

>
> Some quick ideas:
> - do you have the revdb.so and the dbmysql.so in the
> same directory?

Yup, the cgi-bin along with everything else. All are 0755

>
> - have you tried wrapping it in a 'try' and putting
> the error from a 'catch' block?



Just tried it and got:

219,10,8,revOpenDatabase 465,10,1


Any idea what that means???



>
> - have you tried the 'revSetDatabaseDriverPath'
> command to point to the directory where the
> 'dbmysql.so' is stored?

All are in the same directory, the cgi-bin

>
> - in your 'revOpenDatabase' call, are you using
> lowercase "mysql" for the database type?

yup, checked that also.


sims

sims at ezpzapps.com
Skype:   sims.jim
iChat:   techietours
______________________
Opportunity by Design






From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Dec 17 12:15:01 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:15:01 -0600
Subject: CGI MySQL Drivers What next?
In-Reply-To: <0A3DFAFB-26EE-4FCF-9137-2BE365625C02@ezpzapps.com>
References: <BCE7B44B-59FE-464C-A9BE-DC844658C213@ezpzapps.com>	<43D26BAE-3CA2-4F28-805A-F63C13B59F38@futilism.com>
	<0A3DFAFB-26EE-4FCF-9137-2BE365625C02@ezpzapps.com>
Message-ID: <49493395.9060900@hyperactivesw.com>

Jim Sims wrote:
> 
> On Dec 17, 2008, at 3:38 PM, Mark Smith wrote:
> 
>> Jim, do you have the externals of the stack set to the right path to 
>> dbmysql.so? (I think the path needs to be relative to where the 
>> revolution engine is.)
> 
> The externals (dbmysql.so  &  revdb.so) are in the cgi-bin with 
> everything else. In that
> case they should just work, yes?
> 
> 
> Do I need to do a "start using"  with these externals  or do something 
> which
> loads/activates them?

I'm no expert on databases, but some posts I've saved over the years 
suggest you need to use "SetDriverPath" early in your script to tell the 
engine where to find the drivers.

Also, your first post mentioned you'd installed the .bundle external, 
but that is OS X only and JaguarPC is a Linux setup. Above, it looks 
like you've changed to the Linux libraries instead, which would be correct.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Dec 17 12:19:31 2008
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 09:19:31 -0800
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <140409.12344.qm@web65409.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <459b22a90812170802p31aef3a3oeb0c1d1955411623@mail.gmail.com>
	<140409.12344.qm@web65409.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B0000611675@titan.pon.net>

Jan & William,

> > I keep running into this problem and making
> > work-arounds that are not at all
> > elegant. It would sure be wonderful if you could set
> > the alignment in one
> > column of a table field to "right" and the next
> > column in the same table
> > field to another alignment say "left".
> > Is there a way to do this?
>
>I'm afraid not. The closest you'll get is by using
>multiple fields and making them scroll and hilite
>lines in unison

One can always use a non-proportional font and pad "right-justified" 
(or decimal-justified) fields with leading blanks to achieve the 
proper alignment.


Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
  Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

  from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) 



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Dec 17 12:37:25 2008
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim Sims)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:37:25 +0100
Subject: CGI MySQL Drivers What next?
In-Reply-To: <49493395.9060900@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <BCE7B44B-59FE-464C-A9BE-DC844658C213@ezpzapps.com>	<43D26BAE-3CA2-4F28-805A-F63C13B59F38@futilism.com>
	<0A3DFAFB-26EE-4FCF-9137-2BE365625C02@ezpzapps.com>
	<49493395.9060900@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <FDE2E4AA-59F2-4EF8-8636-1978D92077BC@ezpzapps.com>


On Dec 17, 2008, at 6:15 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> I'm no expert on databases, but some posts I've saved over the years  
> suggest you need to use "SetDriverPath" early in your script to tell  
> the engine where to find the drivers.

Tried that.

Made a sub-dir to the cgi-bin  named database_drivers

At the beginning of the cgi script I added:
revSetDatabaseDriverPath "./database_drivers/"
No luck.
<severe banging of head sounds>


sims

sims at ezpzapps.com
Skype:   sims.jim
iChat:   techietours
______________________
Opportunity by Design






From shoreagent at gmail.com  Wed Dec 17 12:38:07 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:38:07 -0400
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <B0000611675@titan.pon.net>
References: <459b22a90812170802p31aef3a3oeb0c1d1955411623@mail.gmail.com>
	<140409.12344.qm@web65409.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<B0000611675@titan.pon.net>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812170938y68c9d911w8275215bde1675d6@mail.gmail.com>

What is the name of the best non-proportional font to use for both windoz
and Mac? It is mainly for numbers. Wouldn't it be nice if there was a
non-proportional font that was proportional for just letters?


From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Wed Dec 17 13:05:15 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:05:15 -0800
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812170938y68c9d911w8275215bde1675d6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812170802p31aef3a3oeb0c1d1955411623@mail.gmail.com>
	<140409.12344.qm@web65409.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>	<B0000611675@titan.pon.net>
	<459b22a90812170938y68c9d911w8275215bde1675d6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c56eee8dea09@[192.168.1.105]>

IMHO
Courier is the most universally available monospaced font. I like 
slashed zeroes to contrast with UC  O's. Also the open source 
Truetype    Profont       is severe to look at for code, but presents 
a great image for numbers lists.

No testing on Windows - but these are long established and familiar 
fonts on all platforms.


>What is the name of the best non-proportional font to use for both windoz
>and Mac? It is mainly for numbers. Wouldn't it be nice if there was a
>non-proportional font that was proportional for just letters?

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -





From shoreagent at gmail.com  Wed Dec 17 14:02:35 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:02:35 -0400
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c56eee8dea09@192.168.1.105>
References: <459b22a90812170802p31aef3a3oeb0c1d1955411623@mail.gmail.com>
	<140409.12344.qm@web65409.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<B0000611675@titan.pon.net>
	<459b22a90812170938y68c9d911w8275215bde1675d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240802c56eee8dea09@192.168.1.105>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812171102t1a52d52av98ae0b062a26714a@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks a lot. It is sure a lot easier to do that and display my data in one
big field than make lots of little ones which line up next to each other.
I see why people keep asking for better table field controls.

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Stephen Barncard <
stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com> wrote:

> IMHO
> Courier is the most universally available monospaced font. I like slashed
> zeroes to contrast with UC  O's. Also the open source Truetype    Profont
>     is severe to look at for code, but presents a great image for numbers
> lists.
>
> No testing on Windows - but these are long established and familiar fonts
> on all platforms.
>
>
>  What is the name of the best non-proportional font to use for both windoz
>> and Mac? It is mainly for numbers. Wouldn't it be nice if there was a
>> non-proportional font that was proportional for just letters?
>>
>
> --
>
>
> stephen barncard
> s a n  f r a n c i s c o
> - - -  - - - - - - - - -
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.bluewatermaritime.com


From Andre.Bisseret at inria.fr  Wed Dec 17 14:31:46 2008
From: Andre.Bisseret at inria.fr (Andre.Bisseret)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:31:46 +0100
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812170802p31aef3a3oeb0c1d1955411623@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812170802p31aef3a3oeb0c1d1955411623@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CB8703E6-0AF9-4385-A25B-0C018F6DD0EA@inria.fr>


Le 17 d?c. 08 ? 17:02, william humphrey a ?crit :

> I keep running into this problem and making work-arounds that are  
> not at all
> elegant. It would sure be wonderful if you could set the alignment  
> in one
> column of a table field to "right" and the next column in the same  
> table
> field to another alignment say "left".
> Is there a way to do this?

In one stack I have a field whose lines are composed of items  
delimited by tab.

In order to get each item right aligned I use the following (that I  
learned from this list thanks to Jacque Landman Gay if I well  
remember) :

local theWidth,theText

     ------------

     put "8" into theWidth -- or another number of course

     REPEAT WITH y = 1 to the number of lines in uneVente --  
"uneVente" is a local variable

         set the itemdel to tab

         REPEAT WITH x = 1 to the number of items in line y of uneVente

             IF item x of line y of uneVente is a number THEN

                 put item x of line y of uneVente into theText

                 put char 1 to theWidth of theText into theText --  
truNcate long strings

                 put char 1 to (theWidth - the length of theText) of  
"                    " before theText

                 put theText into item x of line y of uneVente

             END IF

         END repeat

     END repeat

Then I put ? uneVente ? into the field.



Not sure in your case but might help (?)

Best regards from Grenoble
Andr?


From andre at andregarzia.com  Wed Dec 17 14:46:55 2008
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:46:55 -0200
Subject: OT: Apple Announces Its Last Year at Macworld
In-Reply-To: <4948D7D7.807@armbase.com>
References: <748397.8832.qm@web65412.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<4948D7D7.807@armbase.com>
Message-ID: <7c87a2a10812171146k2a98ac6o9b38724cf4587453@mail.gmail.com>

:-O

why?

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Bob Hartley <rev at armbase.com> wrote:
> No it is not april fool's day.
>
> Apple are no longer going to attend macworld. And no Jobs there as well.
> http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2008/12/16macworld.html
>
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.


From coiin at rcn.com  Wed Dec 17 14:58:33 2008
From: coiin at rcn.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:58:33 -0500
Subject: OT: Apple Announces Its Last Year at Macworld
In-Reply-To: <7c87a2a10812171146k2a98ac6o9b38724cf4587453@mail.gmail.com>
References: <748397.8832.qm@web65412.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<4948D7D7.807@armbase.com>
	<7c87a2a10812171146k2a98ac6o9b38724cf4587453@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AA53A9D3-1BB9-4C7C-99A7-E11F79F3D83E@rcn.com>


On Dec 17, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> :-O
>
> why?

The best theory is that Apple have been backing away from exhibitions  
in general, so that they can just do their special events when a  
product is ready to launch, instead of a mad rush to get it ready for  
Macworld, for example.

In the conspiracy camp, some wonder about Steve's health, if Phil is  
doing the keynote speech, but a source is quoted as saying that if  
there was anything amiss with Steve, it would certainly be known by  
now. So I'm guessing Phil is presenting as a step towards there being  
no Apple presence.

Hey, maybe Phil will invite Steve on stage to do some of the tech  
demos...




From jiro at ronri-kobo.com  Wed Dec 17 16:33:41 2008
From: jiro at ronri-kobo.com (Jiro Harada)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 06:33:41 +0900
Subject: F-ab 2.6.1
In-Reply-To: <7E6548B2-B389-4C5C-9F3A-10F3E01A96A1@wanadoo.fr>
References: <7E6548B2-B389-4C5C-9F3A-10F3E01A96A1@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <9B32325C-6186-4E1F-A7B7-87B4AE65E954@ronri-kobo.com>

Francis,

Have a nice weekend!

Jiro Harada


On 2008/12/17, at 21:05, Francis Nugent Dixon wrote:

> Hi from Paris,
>
> I downloaded F-ab 2.6.1, and then played around
> with it, thinking I could get back to work in
> about 10 minutes.
>
> My mistake ! - I spent hours on it, and will
> certainly return during the weekend to see more.
>
> Absolutely fascinating - Congratulations to
> Jiro Harada for his work.
>
> I spent some time building a stack to play
> my favourite UTube videos. Now I can throw
> it away ........
>
> -Francis
>


From bobs at twft.com  Wed Dec 17 17:23:23 2008
From: bobs at twft.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:23:23 -0800
Subject: OT: Apple Announces Its Last Year at Macworld
In-Reply-To: <7c87a2a10812171146k2a98ac6o9b38724cf4587453@mail.gmail.com>
References: <748397.8832.qm@web65412.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<4948D7D7.807@armbase.com>
	<7c87a2a10812171146k2a98ac6o9b38724cf4587453@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5A1F3296-972F-4742-9C34-5E1C56DA7BC6@twft.com>

I read an article about this some time back. The conventions used to  
be affordable, but now the people who put them on really gouge the  
vendors to the point that it is not even remotely feasible to attend  
as a vendor, even with the business that may be potentially generated  
due to their presence their.

If conferences want to prevent their own extinction they had better  
get a LOT more realistic about what they charge vendors to attend.  
That goes with ALL businesses these days.

Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM

On Dec 17, 2008, at 11:46 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> :-O
>
> why?
>
> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Bob Hartley <rev at armbase.com> wrote:
>> No it is not april fool's day.
>>
>> Apple are no longer going to attend macworld. And no Jobs there as  
>> well.
>> http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2008/12/16macworld.html
>>
>> Bob
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From noelf at nomigraphics.com  Wed Dec 17 17:37:15 2008
From: noelf at nomigraphics.com (Noel)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:37:15 -0700
Subject: OT: Apple Announces Its Last Year at Macworld
In-Reply-To: <5A1F3296-972F-4742-9C34-5E1C56DA7BC6@twft.com>
References: <748397.8832.qm@web65412.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<4948D7D7.807@armbase.com>
	<7c87a2a10812171146k2a98ac6o9b38724cf4587453@mail.gmail.com>
	<5A1F3296-972F-4742-9C34-5E1C56DA7BC6@twft.com>
Message-ID: <0MKp8S-1LD5142PTe-0002HF@mrelay.perfora.net>

I also read that back in the day, conferences were the place to 
announce your new products etc.  But now with other avenues (mainly 
the internet) companies are finding that they do better with specific 
company announcements instead of conventions.

Of course, having said that, I do miss Comdex :)  Nightmare that it was.

  - Noel

At 03:23 PM 12/17/2008, you wrote:
>I read an article about this some time back. The conventions used to
>be affordable, but now the people who put them on really gouge the
>vendors to the point that it is not even remotely feasible to attend
>as a vendor, even with the business that may be potentially generated
>due to their presence their.
>
>If conferences want to prevent their own extinction they had better
>get a LOT more realistic about what they charge vendors to attend.
>That goes with ALL businesses these days.
>
>Bob Sneidar
>IT Manager
>Logos Management
>Calvary Chapel CM
>
>On Dec 17, 2008, at 11:46 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>
>>:-O
>>
>>why?
>>
>>On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Bob Hartley <rev at armbase.com> wrote:
>>>No it is not april fool's day.
>>>
>>>Apple are no longer going to attend macworld. And no Jobs there as
>>>well.
>>>http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2008/12/16macworld.html
>>>
>>>Bob
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>use-revolution mailing list
>>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>subscription
>>>preferences:
>>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-revolution mailing list
>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>subscription preferences:
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From alex at harryscollar.com  Wed Dec 17 18:05:57 2008
From: alex at harryscollar.com (Alex Shaw)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 09:05:57 +1000
Subject: CGI MySQL Drivers What next?
In-Reply-To: <FDE2E4AA-59F2-4EF8-8636-1978D92077BC@ezpzapps.com>
References: <BCE7B44B-59FE-464C-A9BE-DC844658C213@ezpzapps.com>	<43D26BAE-3CA2-4F28-805A-F63C13B59F38@futilism.com>	<0A3DFAFB-26EE-4FCF-9137-2BE365625C02@ezpzapps.com>	<49493395.9060900@hyperactivesw.com>
	<FDE2E4AA-59F2-4EF8-8636-1978D92077BC@ezpzapps.com>
Message-ID: <494985D5.3030001@harryscollar.com>

Hi Jim

I don't use MySQL but this works for me on linux with SQLite..

Assuming you have your script in cgi-bin. First, upload the entire linux 
"Externals" folder from your "Runtime/Linux/x86-32" folder to "cgi-bin"

Then call this function near the beginning of startup:

COMMAND loadExternals
     set the externals of the templatestack to "cgi-bin/Externals/revdb.so"
     create stack "externals"
     start using stack "externals"
     revSetDatabaseDriverPath "cgi-bin/Externals"
END loadExternals


See also Ken's tip at: 
http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/ext003.htm

regards
alex


Jim Sims wrote:
> 
> On Dec 17, 2008, at 6:15 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> 
>> I'm no expert on databases, but some posts I've saved over the years 
>> suggest you need to use "SetDriverPath" early in your script to tell 
>> the engine where to find the drivers.
> 
> Tried that.
> 
> Made a sub-dir to the cgi-bin  named database_drivers
> 
> At the beginning of the cgi script I added:
> revSetDatabaseDriverPath "./database_drivers/"
> No luck.
> <severe banging of head sounds>
> 
> 
> sims
> 
> sims at ezpzapps.com
> Skype:   sims.jim
> iChat:   techietours
> ______________________
> Opportunity by Design
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


From bvg at mac.com  Wed Dec 17 18:15:02 2008
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:15:02 +0100
Subject: CGI MySQL Drivers What next?
In-Reply-To: <FDE2E4AA-59F2-4EF8-8636-1978D92077BC@ezpzapps.com>
References: <BCE7B44B-59FE-464C-A9BE-DC844658C213@ezpzapps.com>
	<43D26BAE-3CA2-4F28-805A-F63C13B59F38@futilism.com>
	<0A3DFAFB-26EE-4FCF-9137-2BE365625C02@ezpzapps.com>
	<49493395.9060900@hyperactivesw.com>
	<FDE2E4AA-59F2-4EF8-8636-1978D92077BC@ezpzapps.com>
Message-ID: <36695CC1-3661-4722-A24D-90DEA228756B@mac.com>

I'm using the following code in my cgi databases (example for mac os  
x), I think mr. waddingham once posted something similar to the  
improve list. The db externals are all in the same folder for me (and  
executable). Debugging could also include a check for the externals of  
the stack, instead of the sql stuff within a try/catch. Watch out for  
linewraps, wrong line endings, and false paths/names of relevant files/ 
apps.

#!rev3.0 -ui

on startup
   try

     --setup SQL as externals of a stack. necessary!
     --I do this by using a "fake" stack, using a complete and  
nonrelative path to external file
     set the externals of the templatestack to "/Library/WebServer/CGI- 
Executables/revdb.so"
     create stack "externals"
     start using stack "externals"
     --use correct mysql call instead of sqlite here
     put revOpenDatabase("sqlite",  "db.sqlite") into buffer

   catch buffer
     put "Error:" & cr before buffer
   end try
   if buffer is a number then
     put "Success:" & cr before buffer
   end if
   put "content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1"  & cr
   put "Content-Length:" && the length of buffer & cr & cr
   put buffer

   --completely remove all stacks from memory. necessary!	
   --either of the following should do, I'm using both for being  
paranoid
   close stack "externals"
   quit
end startup

On 17 Dec 2008, at 18:37, Jim Sims wrote:

>
> On Dec 17, 2008, at 6:15 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
>> I'm no expert on databases, but some posts I've saved over the  
>> years suggest you need to use "SetDriverPath" early in your script  
>> to tell the engine where to find the drivers.
>
> Tried that.
>
> Made a sub-dir to the cgi-bin  named database_drivers
>
> At the beginning of the cgi script I added:
> revSetDatabaseDriverPath "./database_drivers/"
> No luck.
> <severe banging of head sounds>
>
>
> sims
>
> sims at ezpzapps.com
> Skype:   sims.jim
> iChat:   techietours
> ______________________
> Opportunity by Design
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From sundown at pacifier.com  Wed Dec 17 18:36:19 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:36:19 -0800
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c56eee8dea09@[192.168.1.105]>
References: <459b22a90812170802p31aef3a3oeb0c1d1955411623@mail.gmail.com>
	<140409.12344.qm@web65409.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>	<B0000611675@titan.pon.net>
	<459b22a90812170938y68c9d911w8275215bde1675d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240802c56eee8dea09@[192.168.1.105]>
Message-ID: <221E13A3-6515-42E4-B054-2D22C248A5E7@pacifier.com>

On Dec 17, 2008, at 10:05 AM, Stephen Barncard wrote:

> IMHO
> Courier is the most universally available monospaced font.
>
> stephen barncard
> s a n  f r a n c i s c o
> - - -  - - - - - - - - -

What would be really nice is if the Rev Team would supply a
character to be used.  It seems a space is standard.  Why not
provide a space character that is 1 point in size.

Then it would be simple math to justify text that would work on
any machine.  You would be able to do your own columns in a
field if you wanted.  You would not be limited to someone else
determining the space between words when it was justified.

I have trouble believing that is too difficult.

-=<JB<=-



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Dec 17 18:45:49 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:45:49 -0800
Subject: Table field text formating
Message-ID: <49498F2D.8080704@fourthworld.com>

-= JB =- wrote:
> What would be really nice is if the Rev Team would supply a
> character to be used.  It seems a space is standard.  Why not
> provide a space character that is 1 point in size.
> 
> Then it would be simple math to justify text that would work on
> any machine.  You would be able to do your own columns in a
> field if you wanted.  You would not be limited to someone else
> determining the space between words when it was justified.

It would be far more efficient and robust if Rev simply added 
independent column alignment as has been the #1 request for many years.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From dave.cragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Wed Dec 17 18:52:45 2008
From: dave.cragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 23:52:45 +0000
Subject: CGI MySQL Drivers What next?
In-Reply-To: <BCE7B44B-59FE-464C-A9BE-DC844658C213@ezpzapps.com>
References: <BCE7B44B-59FE-464C-A9BE-DC844658C213@ezpzapps.com>
Message-ID: <939F463E-E3B0-4E26-9AEA-764088635B16@lacscentre.co.uk>

Jim

Also see this tip on Ken's site about old style passwords. I don't  
know if Rev's MySQL support was updated to deal with new style  
passwords. (Anyone know?)

http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/data004.htm

I'm assuming your sample script is returning "WRONG". Could you return  
the actual error message? (put dbresult into buffer) It might give  
some info.

Cheers
Dave




From sundown at pacifier.com  Wed Dec 17 18:54:57 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:54:57 -0800
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <49498F2D.8080704@fourthworld.com>
References: <49498F2D.8080704@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <AB04C5CF-2A86-40C7-B6A0-21A7DF4CC291@pacifier.com>

On Dec 17, 2008, at 3:45 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> -= JB =- wrote:
>> What would be really nice is if the Rev Team would supply a
>> character to be used.  It seems a space is standard.  Why not
>> provide a space character that is 1 point in size.
>> Then it would be simple math to justify text that would work on
>> any machine.  You would be able to do your own columns in a
>> field if you wanted.  You would not be limited to someone else
>> determining the space between words when it was justified.
>
> It would be far more efficient and robust if Rev simply added  
> independent column alignment as has been the #1 request for many  
> years.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World
>  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> _______________________________________________

I agree they should add independent column alignment.  But they  
should also
add a 1 point space for people so they can justify text how they want  
it to look.
There are many cases where this would be very useful.  It would be  
nice to
have the choice because both are very important.

-=>JB<=-


> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From alex at harryscollar.com  Wed Dec 17 18:54:39 2008
From: alex at harryscollar.com (Alex Shaw)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 09:54:39 +1000
Subject: CGI MySQL Drivers What next?
In-Reply-To: <36695CC1-3661-4722-A24D-90DEA228756B@mac.com>
References: <BCE7B44B-59FE-464C-A9BE-DC844658C213@ezpzapps.com>	<43D26BAE-3CA2-4F28-805A-F63C13B59F38@futilism.com>	<0A3DFAFB-26EE-4FCF-9137-2BE365625C02@ezpzapps.com>	<49493395.9060900@hyperactivesw.com>	<FDE2E4AA-59F2-4EF8-8636-1978D92077BC@ezpzapps.com>
	<36695CC1-3661-4722-A24D-90DEA228756B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <4949913F.7030009@harryscollar.com>

Hi

I call the following at the end of the startup handler:

COMMAND cleanUp
     closeDB
     IF there is a stack "externals" THEN close stack "externals"
     wait 20 milliseconds
END cleanUp


COMMAND closeDB
     IF gConID is not "" THEN revCloseDatabase gConID
END closeDB

The 20 milliseconds delay has helped in a few instances when returning 
large amounts of data or when using other file i/o within the script.

regards
alex


Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:
>   --completely remove all stacks from memory. necessary!   
>   --either of the following should do, I'm using both for being paranoid
>   close stack "externals"
>   quit
> end startup


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Dec 17 19:13:20 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:13:20 -0800
Subject: Table field text formating
Message-ID: <494995A0.8040301@fourthworld.com>

-= JB =- wrote:

> On Dec 17, 2008, at 3:45 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> It would be far more efficient and robust if Rev simply added  
>> independent column alignment as has been the #1 request for many  
>> years.
> 
> I agree they should add independent column alignment.  But they  
> should also
> add a 1 point space for people so they can justify text how they want  
> it to look.
> There are many cases where this would be very useful.  It would be  
> nice to
> have the choice because both are very important.

It may be easier to get the exact feature you need than to ask RunRev to 
become a type foundry.

If all you need is a one-pixel font, I'm sure there are plenty around.

But perhaps we might ask why this is useful, and look one step further 
to the mechanics of the underlying text rendering in the field object to 
get exactly what we most want.  It may be that such additions would 
become trivial once RunRev adds independent column alignment to fields.

Slogging through big blocks of text line by line and/or word by word, 
measuring each and adding/subtracting a number of special one-pixel 
characters can be quite slow, and not the sort of thing I enjoy teaching 
to newcomers for simple text alignment.

So hopefully instead we can just get the appearance we want just as we 
want it at the moment it's rendered.  I doesn't hurt to ask. :)

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From sundown at pacifier.com  Wed Dec 17 19:30:08 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:30:08 -0800
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <494995A0.8040301@fourthworld.com>
References: <494995A0.8040301@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <DDD95078-E050-4299-B4D7-532D0D045B4B@pacifier.com>

On Dec 17, 2008, at 4:13 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> -= JB =- wrote:
>
>> On Dec 17, 2008, at 3:45 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>> It would be far more efficient and robust if Rev simply added   
>>> independent column alignment as has been the #1 request for many   
>>> years.
>> I agree they should add independent column alignment.  But they   
>> should also
>> add a 1 point space for people so they can justify text how they  
>> want  it to look.
>> There are many cases where this would be very useful.  It would  
>> be  nice to
>> have the choice because both are very important.
>
> It may be easier to get the exact feature you need than to ask  
> RunRev to become a type foundry.
>
> If all you need is a one-pixel font, I'm sure there are plenty around.
>
> But perhaps we might ask why this is useful, and look one step  
> further to the mechanics of the underlying text rendering in the  
> field object to get exactly what we most want.  It may be that such  
> additions would become trivial once RunRev adds independent column  
> alignment to fields.
>
> Slogging through big blocks of text line by line and/or word by  
> word, measuring each and adding/subtracting a number of special one- 
> pixel characters can be quite slow, and not the sort of thing I  
> enjoy teaching to newcomers for simple text alignment.
>
> So hopefully instead we can just get the appearance we want just as  
> we want it at the moment it's rendered.  I doesn't hurt to ask. :)
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World
>  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com

Well if a 1 pixel character is so common then it would be extremely  
easy for
the Rev Team to include it and I would not have to add a font for it.

As for the usefulness it is unlimited.  Text can be positioned where  
you want
it not just aligned according to Left-Center-Right-Full.  The one  
point space
would allow kerning.  The choice of alignment is important but  
kerning it too.
Many people would never see a need for kerning but it needs to be  
there for
those who who do want it.

-=>JB<=-


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Dec 17 20:05:12 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:05:12 -0800
Subject: Table field text formating
Message-ID: <4949A1C8.4060401@fourthworld.com>

-= JB =- wrote:

> On Dec 17, 2008, at 4:13 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
...
>> If all you need is a one-pixel font, I'm sure there are plenty around.
>>
>> But perhaps we might ask why this is useful, and look one step  
>> further to the mechanics of the underlying text rendering in the  
>> field object to get exactly what we most want.  It may be that such  
>> additions would become trivial once RunRev adds independent column  
>> alignment to fields.
>>
>> Slogging through big blocks of text line by line and/or word by  
>> word, measuring each and adding/subtracting a number of special one- 
>> pixel characters can be quite slow, and not the sort of thing I  
>> enjoy teaching to newcomers for simple text alignment.
>>
>> So hopefully instead we can just get the appearance we want just as  
>> we want it at the moment it's rendered.  I doesn't hurt to ask. :)
> 
> Well if a 1 pixel character is so common then it would be extremely  
> easy for
> the Rev Team to include it and I would not have to add a font for it.
> 
> As for the usefulness it is unlimited.  Text can be positioned where  
> you want
> it not just aligned according to Left-Center-Right-Full.  The one  
> point space
> would allow kerning.  The choice of alignment is important but  
> kerning it too.
> Many people would never see a need for kerning but it needs to be  
> there for
> those who who do want it.

Done:  just set the imageSource of the character you want rendered as 
one pixel to an image with a width of one pixel.

Let us know what you come up with using it.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From sundown at pacifier.com  Wed Dec 17 20:27:01 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:27:01 -0800
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <4949A1C8.4060401@fourthworld.com>
References: <4949A1C8.4060401@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <140DC714-86B5-4FAD-B99C-C9CC07C9851B@pacifier.com>


On Dec 17, 2008, at 5:05 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> -= JB =- wrote:
>
>> On Dec 17, 2008, at 4:13 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> ..
>>> If all you need is a one-pixel font, I'm sure there are plenty  
>>> around.
>>>
>>> But perhaps we might ask why this is useful, and look one step   
>>> further to the mechanics of the underlying text rendering in the   
>>> field object to get exactly what we most want.  It may be that  
>>> such  additions would become trivial once RunRev adds independent  
>>> column  alignment to fields.
>>>
>>> Slogging through big blocks of text line by line and/or word by   
>>> word, measuring each and adding/subtracting a number of special  
>>> one- pixel characters can be quite slow, and not the sort of  
>>> thing I  enjoy teaching to newcomers for simple text alignment.
>>>
>>> So hopefully instead we can just get the appearance we want just  
>>> as  we want it at the moment it's rendered.  I doesn't hurt to  
>>> ask. :)
>> Well if a 1 pixel character is so common then it would be  
>> extremely  easy for
>> the Rev Team to include it and I would not have to add a font for it.
>> As for the usefulness it is unlimited.  Text can be positioned  
>> where  you want
>> it not just aligned according to Left-Center-Right-Full.  The one   
>> point space
>> would allow kerning.  The choice of alignment is important but   
>> kerning it too.
>> Many people would never see a need for kerning but it needs to be   
>> there for
>> those who who do want it.
>
> Done:  just set the imageSource of the character you want rendered  
> as one pixel to an image with a width of one pixel.
>
> Let us know what you come up with using it.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World
>  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com

Using an image has been discussed before.  How would you like to use  
an image
every time you wanted to add a space?  It would be a lot nicer to not  
use an image
instead of a text character.

Look at it this way.  With the 1 character added Rev could advertise  
it allows both
Kerning and Tracking.  To those in the publishing industry that means  
a lot.  Now
they can advertise you can convert a character into an image every  
time you need
to use tracking or kerning.

What do you think is going to help sell Rev better?  Look at how many  
asked for
text improvement.  And since it is so simple it would be idiotic for  
them not to add
it even if only a small percentage of people are interested in  
serious desk top
publishing capabilities.

Kerning and Tracking are extremely important in quality desktop  
publishing and
have been and still are important in almost every newspaper, magazine  
etc. that
is printed.  People care about it but many are not aware of it.

-=>JB<=-


From briany at qldlearning.com  Wed Dec 17 21:07:38 2008
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:07:38 -0800
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <140DC714-86B5-4FAD-B99C-C9CC07C9851B@pacifier.com>
References: <4949A1C8.4060401@fourthworld.com>
	<140DC714-86B5-4FAD-B99C-C9CC07C9851B@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <8B34ADC4-1B67-4452-AAE5-B8D0991B57D4@qldlearning.com>

JB,

I think you may be vastly underestimating the task of supporting  
kerning and tracking by using dummy spaces inserted into the flow of  
text. Among other things, this would render your text impossible to  
parse and be quite slow. What's appealing about strange 1 pixel  
characters inserted into your text in a non-standard font that makes  
it better than the image solution? At least with the images, you can  
use any character and any font for your spacer.

I agree that all of these features would be useful, but I disagree  
that 1-pixel fonts would really accomplish much towards that goal.


> Using an image has been discussed before.  How would you like to use  
> an image
> every time you wanted to add a space?  It would be a lot nicer to  
> not use an image
> instead of a text character.
>
> Look at it this way.  With the 1 character added Rev could advertise  
> it allows both
> Kerning and Tracking.  To those in the publishing industry that  
> means a lot.  Now
> they can advertise you can convert a character into an image every  
> time you need
> to use tracking or kerning.
>
> What do you think is going to help sell Rev better?  Look at how  
> many asked for
> text improvement.  And since it is so simple it would be idiotic for  
> them not to add
> it even if only a small percentage of people are interested in  
> serious desk top
> publishing capabilities.
>
> Kerning and Tracking are extremely important in quality desktop  
> publishing and
> have been and still are important in almost every newspaper,  
> magazine etc. that
> is printed.  People care about it but many are not aware of it.
>
> -=>JB<=-





From sundown at pacifier.com  Wed Dec 17 21:17:11 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:17:11 -0800
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <8B34ADC4-1B67-4452-AAE5-B8D0991B57D4@qldlearning.com>
References: <4949A1C8.4060401@fourthworld.com>
	<140DC714-86B5-4FAD-B99C-C9CC07C9851B@pacifier.com>
	<8B34ADC4-1B67-4452-AAE5-B8D0991B57D4@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <0AAFC29F-778C-42A4-A651-573EFDAEDCFC@pacifier.com>

Brian,

Whatever way it is done Rev should include it as a standard and then  
they can advertise it
includes the ability for kerning and tracking.  They can have a  
standard key used to enter
the character.  Maybe something like a control-space.  Of course this  
can probably be done
now using key commands available but if they included it as a  
standard it would mean a lot
to those who care about it.  Since it is so simple why not include it?

-=>JB<=-


On Dec 17, 2008, at 6:07 PM, Brian Yennie wrote:

> JB,
>
> I think you may be vastly underestimating the task of supporting  
> kerning and tracking by using dummy spaces inserted into the flow  
> of text. Among other things, this would render your text impossible  
> to parse and be quite slow. What's appealing about strange 1 pixel  
> characters inserted into your text in a non-standard font that  
> makes it better than the image solution? At least with the images,  
> you can use any character and any font for your spacer.
>
> I agree that all of these features would be useful, but I disagree  
> that 1-pixel fonts would really accomplish much towards that goal.
>
>
>> Using an image has been discussed before.  How would you like to  
>> use an image
>> every time you wanted to add a space?  It would be a lot nicer to  
>> not use an image
>> instead of a text character.
>>
>> Look at it this way.  With the 1 character added Rev could  
>> advertise it allows both
>> Kerning and Tracking.  To those in the publishing industry that  
>> means a lot.  Now
>> they can advertise you can convert a character into an image every  
>> time you need
>> to use tracking or kerning.
>>
>> What do you think is going to help sell Rev better?  Look at how  
>> many asked for
>> text improvement.  And since it is so simple it would be idiotic  
>> for them not to add
>> it even if only a small percentage of people are interested in  
>> serious desk top
>> publishing capabilities.
>>
>> Kerning and Tracking are extremely important in quality desktop  
>> publishing and
>> have been and still are important in almost every newspaper,  
>> magazine etc. that
>> is printed.  People care about it but many are not aware of it.
>>
>> -=>JB<=-
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From dick.kriesel at mail.com  Wed Dec 17 21:46:35 2008
From: dick.kriesel at mail.com (Dick Kriesel)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:46:35 -0800
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <0AAFC29F-778C-42A4-A651-573EFDAEDCFC@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <C56EF98B.34129%dick.kriesel@mail.com>

Could you replace each space with an image whose width you've set?

Could you replace any character with a snapshot of itself whose width you've
set?

-- Dick


On 12/17/08 6:17 PM, "-= JB =-" <sundown at pacifier.com> wrote:

> Brian,
> 
> Whatever way it is done Rev should include it as a standard and then
> they can advertise it
> includes the ability for kerning and tracking.  They can have a
> standard key used to enter
> the character.  Maybe something like a control-space.  Of course this
> can probably be done
> now using key commands available but if they included it as a
> standard it would mean a lot
> to those who care about it.  Since it is so simple why not include it?
> 
> -=>JB<=-
> 
> 
> On Dec 17, 2008, at 6:07 PM, Brian Yennie wrote:
> 
>> JB,
>> 
>> I think you may be vastly underestimating the task of supporting
>> kerning and tracking by using dummy spaces inserted into the flow
>> of text. Among other things, this would render your text impossible
>> to parse and be quite slow. What's appealing about strange 1 pixel
>> characters inserted into your text in a non-standard font that
>> makes it better than the image solution? At least with the images,
>> you can use any character and any font for your spacer.
>> 
>> I agree that all of these features would be useful, but I disagree
>> that 1-pixel fonts would really accomplish much towards that goal.
>> 
>> 
>>> Using an image has been discussed before.  How would you like to
>>> use an image
>>> every time you wanted to add a space?  It would be a lot nicer to
>>> not use an image
>>> instead of a text character.
>>> 
>>> Look at it this way.  With the 1 character added Rev could
>>> advertise it allows both
>>> Kerning and Tracking.  To those in the publishing industry that
>>> means a lot.  Now
>>> they can advertise you can convert a character into an image every
>>> time you need
>>> to use tracking or kerning.
>>> 
>>> What do you think is going to help sell Rev better?  Look at how
>>> many asked for
>>> text improvement.  And since it is so simple it would be idiotic
>>> for them not to add
>>> it even if only a small percentage of people are interested in
>>> serious desk top
>>> publishing capabilities.
>>> 
>>> Kerning and Tracking are extremely important in quality desktop
>>> publishing and
>>> have been and still are important in almost every newspaper,
>>> magazine etc. that
>>> is printed.  People care about it but many are not aware of it.
>>> 
>>> -=>JB<=-
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Dec 17 21:55:30 2008
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim Sims)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 03:55:30 +0100
Subject: CGI MySQL Drivers What next?
In-Reply-To: <4949913F.7030009@harryscollar.com>
References: <BCE7B44B-59FE-464C-A9BE-DC844658C213@ezpzapps.com>	<43D26BAE-3CA2-4F28-805A-F63C13B59F38@futilism.com>	<0A3DFAFB-26EE-4FCF-9137-2BE365625C02@ezpzapps.com>	<49493395.9060900@hyperactivesw.com>	<FDE2E4AA-59F2-4EF8-8636-1978D92077BC@ezpzapps.com>
	<36695CC1-3661-4722-A24D-90DEA228756B@mac.com>
	<4949913F.7030009@harryscollar.com>
Message-ID: <83CC6272-E1FB-4EAA-861F-950A748F9D85@ezpzapps.com>

Hey! Thanks to all who answered my plea to be saved   ;-)

Saint Andre   ;-)  made a virtual visit and helped me out.

Two major things I had wrong were:
wasn't setting the externals
DB was imported from a different ISP and was using a wrong setup item

Love this List!

sims

sims at ezpzapps.com
Skype:   sims.jim
iChat:   techietours
______________________
Opportunity by Design






From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Dec 17 22:01:58 2008
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim Sims)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 04:01:58 +0100
Subject: CGI MySQL Drivers What next?
In-Reply-To: <83CC6272-E1FB-4EAA-861F-950A748F9D85@ezpzapps.com>
References: <BCE7B44B-59FE-464C-A9BE-DC844658C213@ezpzapps.com>	<43D26BAE-3CA2-4F28-805A-F63C13B59F38@futilism.com>	<0A3DFAFB-26EE-4FCF-9137-2BE365625C02@ezpzapps.com>	<49493395.9060900@hyperactivesw.com>	<FDE2E4AA-59F2-4EF8-8636-1978D92077BC@ezpzapps.com>
	<36695CC1-3661-4722-A24D-90DEA228756B@mac.com>
	<4949913F.7030009@harryscollar.com>
	<83CC6272-E1FB-4EAA-861F-950A748F9D85@ezpzapps.com>
Message-ID: <40BFBB15-75D9-4D35-91F2-A9CBB52D2F19@ezpzapps.com>


On Dec 18, 2008, at 3:55 AM, Jim Sims wrote:

> Two major things I had wrong were:
> wasn't setting the externals
> DB was imported from a different ISP and was using a wrong setup item

Also, I was using libraryStack instead of startup, changed the
script to use startup.

sims

sims at ezpzapps.com
Skype:   sims.jim
iChat:   techietours
______________________
Opportunity by Design






From briany at qldlearning.com  Wed Dec 17 22:16:33 2008
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:16:33 -0800
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <0AAFC29F-778C-42A4-A651-573EFDAEDCFC@pacifier.com>
References: <4949A1C8.4060401@fourthworld.com>
	<140DC714-86B5-4FAD-B99C-C9CC07C9851B@pacifier.com>
	<8B34ADC4-1B67-4452-AAE5-B8D0991B57D4@qldlearning.com>
	<0AAFC29F-778C-42A4-A651-573EFDAEDCFC@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <32DABBE3-75CD-428E-ACFD-0288F536A445@qldlearning.com>

I agree it would be a nice feature. I'm not so sure that it's "so  
simple". I would think it would be quite difficult to add pro layout  
features like this to Rev's text engine with support for all platforms  
and seamless backward compatibility.

> Whatever way it is done Rev should include it as a standard and then  
> they can advertise it
> includes the ability for kerning and tracking.  They can have a  
> standard key used to enter
> the character.  Maybe something like a control-space.  Of course  
> this can probably be done
> now using key commands available but if they included it as a  
> standard it would mean a lot
> to those who care about it.  Since it is so simple why not include it?
>
> -=>JB<=-





From sundown at pacifier.com  Wed Dec 17 22:26:02 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:26:02 -0800
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <32DABBE3-75CD-428E-ACFD-0288F536A445@qldlearning.com>
References: <4949A1C8.4060401@fourthworld.com>
	<140DC714-86B5-4FAD-B99C-C9CC07C9851B@pacifier.com>
	<8B34ADC4-1B67-4452-AAE5-B8D0991B57D4@qldlearning.com>
	<0AAFC29F-778C-42A4-A651-573EFDAEDCFC@pacifier.com>
	<32DABBE3-75CD-428E-ACFD-0288F536A445@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <7B13EDFB-CA21-48B4-A34E-3F9FA5E42620@pacifier.com>

That is why as a serious desktop publisher I haven't taken the time  
to use the image idea.  It
might be good for a very rare occasion to convert images but it does  
not solve the problem
unless Rev does it all behind the scene as a standard.

And that leaves us where we are until Rev improves their text  
abilities and that is why those
who want it will need to keep asking and not settle for a quick fix  
that is limited to their stack.

-=>JB<=-


On Dec 17, 2008, at 7:16 PM, Brian Yennie wrote:

> I agree it would be a nice feature. I'm not so sure that it's "so  
> simple". I would think it would be quite difficult to add pro  
> layout features like this to Rev's text engine with support for all  
> platforms and seamless backward compatibility.
>
>> Whatever way it is done Rev should include it as a standard and  
>> then they can advertise it
>> includes the ability for kerning and tracking.  They can have a  
>> standard key used to enter
>> the character.  Maybe something like a control-space.  Of course  
>> this can probably be done
>> now using key commands available but if they included it as a  
>> standard it would mean a lot
>> to those who care about it.  Since it is so simple why not include  
>> it?
>>
>> -=>JB<=-
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Dec 17 22:27:15 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 21:27:15 -0600
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <140DC714-86B5-4FAD-B99C-C9CC07C9851B@pacifier.com>
References: <4949A1C8.4060401@fourthworld.com>
	<140DC714-86B5-4FAD-B99C-C9CC07C9851B@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <4949C313.40905@hyperactivesw.com>

-= JB =- wrote:

> Look at it this way.  With the 1 character added Rev could advertise it 
> allows both
> Kerning and Tracking.  To those in the publishing industry that means a 
> lot.

I can imagine the outcry that would occur if RR advertised "kerning and 
tracking" and instead supplied a method where false spaces needed to be 
manually inserted between characters. Desktop publishers wouldn't stand 
for it.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From sundown at pacifier.com  Wed Dec 17 22:41:03 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:41:03 -0800
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <4949C313.40905@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <4949A1C8.4060401@fourthworld.com>
	<140DC714-86B5-4FAD-B99C-C9CC07C9851B@pacifier.com>
	<4949C313.40905@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <D47BB633-6F91-4527-8B41-BCF37A5EC9DD@pacifier.com>


On Dec 17, 2008, at 7:27 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> -= JB =- wrote:
>
>> Look at it this way.  With the 1 character added Rev could  
>> advertise it allows both
>> Kerning and Tracking.  To those in the publishing industry that  
>> means a lot.
>
> I can imagine the outcry that would occur if RR advertised "kerning  
> and tracking" and instead supplied a method where false spaces  
> needed to be manually inserted between characters. Desktop  
> publishers wouldn't stand for it.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.co


You are right, they need to do a professional job.  That is the whole  
point of asking them
to add it instead of me doing something.  I know the above statement  
by me looks like I
am saying they could just add crap and claim it is professional.  I  
really don't mean that
and don't want that.  But the claims were being made it is so simple  
that I can do it now
with the image but it appears like you say this won't do the job from  
a professional point.

If nobody ask for kerning and Tracking the Rev Team might not see  
people want it.  They
say they are improving fields and text capabilities and only they  
know how easy it can or
cannot ever be added to the engine they are designing.  With the new  
OS X text engine
Kerning and Tracking cannot be added so I do not like their engine.

-=>JB<=-




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Dec 17 23:12:03 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:12:03 -0600
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <D47BB633-6F91-4527-8B41-BCF37A5EC9DD@pacifier.com>
References: <4949A1C8.4060401@fourthworld.com>	<140DC714-86B5-4FAD-B99C-C9CC07C9851B@pacifier.com>	<4949C313.40905@hyperactivesw.com>
	<D47BB633-6F91-4527-8B41-BCF37A5EC9DD@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <4949CD93.105@hyperactivesw.com>

-= JB =- wrote:

> You are right, they need to do a professional job.  That is the whole 
> point of asking them
> to add it instead of me doing something.  I know the above statement by 
> me looks like I
> am saying they could just add crap and claim it is professional.  I 
> really don't mean that
> and don't want that.  But the claims were being made it is so simple 
> that I can do it now
> with the image but it appears like you say this won't do the job from a 
> professional point.

I think the number of professional DTPers using Rev is probably pretty 
small, and the overlap of those who both do DTP and want to program is 
very narrow. Rev is a programming tool, and needs to address a wide 
variety of features for many different purposes. Upgraded text handling 
is definitely on their list of things to do, but for now I'd hate to see 
them waste time putting in an awkward work-around. I'd rather they just 
worked on the real thing when the time comes.

In the mean time, put this in a field and kern away:

on keyup which
   if which = space and the controlkey is down then
     put word 2 of the selectedchunk into tPos
     put space into the selection
     set the textsize of char tPos of me to 1 -- adjust if necessary
   else pass keyup
end keyup

No images required, but it will definitely wreck any text parsing you 
want to do. The same would apply to your proposed work-around though, so 
this script should be a parallel solution.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From sundown at pacifier.com  Wed Dec 17 23:32:10 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:32:10 -0800
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <4949CD93.105@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <4949A1C8.4060401@fourthworld.com>	<140DC714-86B5-4FAD-B99C-C9CC07C9851B@pacifier.com>	<4949C313.40905@hyperactivesw.com>
	<D47BB633-6F91-4527-8B41-BCF37A5EC9DD@pacifier.com>
	<4949CD93.105@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <82057BDE-81A1-495C-AA76-02BA8110B858@pacifier.com>


On Dec 17, 2008, at 8:12 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

>
> I think the number of professional DTPers using Rev is probably  
> pretty small, and the overlap of those who both do DTP and want to  
> program is very narrow. Rev is a programming tool, and needs to  
> address a wide variety of features for many different purposes.  
> Upgraded text handling is definitely on their list of things to do,  
> but for now I'd hate to see them waste time putting in an awkward  
> work-around. I'd rather they just worked on the real thing when the  
> time comes.
>
> In the mean time, put this in a field and kern away:
>
> on keyup which
>   if which = space and the controlkey is down then
>     put word 2 of the selectedchunk into tPos
>     put space into the selection
>     set the textsize of char tPos of me to 1 -- adjust if necessary
>   else pass keyup
> end keyup
>
> No images required, but it will definitely wreck any text parsing  
> you want to do. The same would apply to your proposed work-around  
> though, so this script should be a parallel solution.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________

Thank you for the info and code.  I wasn't the one who started this  
thread and from your
statement about wrecking any text parsing I will hold off on  
justification for now.  But it is
important to know if the Rev Team decides to use Apples MLTE text  
engine you can be
assured Kerning and Tracking will not ever be made available so it is  
time to forget it or
write your own text engine using and extension or whatever.

-=>JB<=-


From jeff at siphonophore.com  Wed Dec 17 23:58:43 2008
From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeff Reynolds)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 23:58:43 -0500
Subject: OT: Apple Announces Its Last Year at Macworld
In-Reply-To: <20081218041212.121914897EC@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20081218041212.121914897EC@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4903961D-00CF-4126-AC46-7124E7BA5817@siphonophore.com>

Yes i think its a bit of a combo of all the ones mentioned, convention  
costs going way up for vendors (have heard of this in a lot of  
different fields from publishing to housewares to computers.) Also as  
you mention its a lot easier to disseminate information these days and  
also make a stir and grab the eyeballs w/o the competition of all the  
other vendors at the same time. Also the cost of transportation of  
both people and material has skyrocketed of late and the charges for  
moving stuff from the loading docks to the show floor in some venues  
can be quite high.

I also wonder if they want Apple stock price to be more controllable  
as Apple has historically been a very volatile stock and it usually  
revolved around mac worlds.

Lastly i wonder if Apple is just seeing the writing on the walls with  
travel getting more expensive and harder that folks may just not be in  
the mood much any more to attend conferences like these that are  
mainly trade shows. I loved comdex, mac world, NAB, CES but these days  
its really hard for me to think about spending the money and time and  
effort to attend a trade show anymore. nothing like seeing something  
in person, but then again I have not had to really see any major  
hardware purchases for exhibits in person for a long time now and the  
last few trade shows have given me very few leads to new items to use.

tis a changing world...

cheers,

jeff

On Dec 17, 2008, at 11:12 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com  
wrote:

> I also read that back in the day, conferences were the place to
> announce your new products etc.  But now with other avenues (mainly
> the internet) companies are finding that they do better with specific
> company announcements instead of conventions.
>
> Of course, having said that, I do miss Comdex :)  Nightmare that it  
> was.
>
>  - Noel



From mfstuart at cox.net  Thu Dec 18 00:07:36 2008
From: mfstuart at cox.net (mfstuart)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 21:07:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: conditionally formatting a field
Message-ID: <21067108.post@talk.nabble.com>


Hi all,

I want to apply formatting to a field - 'set the borderColor of fld 1 to
black',
depending if the field has focus or not. The conditions apply to field 1
only.

Here's the condition for the field when tabbing between 2 fields:
If the field has focus, it's borderColor is black.
If the field loses focus, the bordColor is white.

Here's the condition for field 1 when mousing over and out of it, and when
field 1 has focus:
If the field has focus, don't change the borderColor. It stays black.
If the field is not focused, then change the borderColor to white.

So far I've tried scripts in the following handlers:
mouseEnter, mouseLeave, openField, exitField, and closeField.
And I'm not getting the result I want.

Anyone got any tips on how to do this?

To see it work, open Outlook and click on the Find toolbar button. 
It opens the find fields at the top of the email list.
Apply the behavior as above to see the results I'm looking for.
This is on Windows, and I'm not sure how Mac Outlook behaves.

Regards,
Mark Stuart
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/conditionally-formatting-a-field-tp21067108p21067108.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 18 01:09:34 2008
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:09:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: conditionally formatting a field
In-Reply-To: <21067108.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <345719.65647.qm@web65409.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

--- mfstuart <mfstuart at cox.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I want to apply formatting to a field - 'set the
> borderColor of fld 1 to
> black',
> depending if the field has focus or not. The
> conditions apply to field 1
> only.
> 
> Here's the condition for the field when tabbing
> between 2 fields:
> If the field has focus, it's borderColor is black.
> If the field loses focus, the bordColor is white.
> 
> Here's the condition for field 1 when mousing over
> and out of it, and when
> field 1 has focus:
> If the field has focus, don't change the
> borderColor. It stays black.
> If the field is not focused, then change the
> borderColor to white.
> 
> So far I've tried scripts in the following handlers:
> mouseEnter, mouseLeave, openField, exitField, and
> closeField.
> And I'm not getting the result I want.
> 
> Anyone got any tips on how to do this?
> 
> To see it work, open Outlook and click on the Find
> toolbar button. 
> It opens the find fields at the top of the email
> list.
> Apply the behavior as above to see the results I'm
> looking for.
> This is on Windows, and I'm not sure how Mac Outlook
> behaves.
> 
> Regards,
> Mark Stuart
> 

Turn off the 'threeD' property and set the
'borderWidth' to 1 - Revolution follows the heuristic
that if you use the 'Appearance Manager' lookAndFeel
and your field has 'factory settings' then it should
look like the standard platform UI (ignoring a number
of settings); otherwise it uses its own rendering
scheme (which does respect all the settings.

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam Reports & PDF Library for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


      


From vokey at uleth.ca  Thu Dec 18 01:28:58 2008
From: vokey at uleth.ca (John Vokey)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 23:28:58 -0700
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <20081218041211.AD13F4897EA@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20081218041211.AD13F4897EA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <439AC52C-D633-4BE1-8E5F-FC118DF94828@uleth.ca>

On 17-Dec-08, at 9:12 PM, Richard wrote:

> It may be easier to get the exact feature you need than to ask  
> RunRev to
> become a type foundry.
>
> If all you need is a one-pixel font, I'm sure there are plenty around.
>
> But perhaps we might ask why this is useful, and look one step further
> to the mechanics of the underlying text rendering in the field  
> object to
> get exactly what we most want.  It may be that such additions would
> become trivial once RunRev adds independent column alignment to  
> fields.
>
> Slogging through big blocks of text line by line and/or word by word,
> measuring each and adding/subtracting a number of special one-pixel
> characters can be quite slow, and not the sort of thing I enjoy  
> teaching
> to newcomers for simple text alignment.
>
> So hopefully instead we can just get the appearance we want just as we
> want it at the moment it's rendered.  I doesn't hurt to ask. :)
>
Yes, and we have those text-description languages available now:  
postscript (which most of us now experience as PDF) and TeX/LaTeX--- 
both of which microtype to way (way!) better than a 1-pixel  
character.  Writing the code for either is (relatively) trivial.  So,  
given every modern operating system has engines for both, all Rev has  
to do is invoke the engines when needed.  For example, in addition to  
html, one should be able to declare a field postscript or TeX/LaTeX,  
put the code, and Rev simply calls the appropriate engine/renderer to  
produce it.
--
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See <http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html>

-Dr. John R. Vokey




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Dec 18 01:44:40 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:44:40 -0800
Subject: Table field text formating
Message-ID: <4949F158.8020002@fourthworld.com>

John Vokey wrote:

> On 17-Dec-08, at 9:12 PM, Richard wrote:
>> If all you need is a one-pixel font, I'm sure there are plenty around.
>>
>> But perhaps we might ask why this is useful, and look one step further
>> to the mechanics of the underlying text rendering in the field  
>> object to
>> get exactly what we most want.  It may be that such additions would
>> become trivial once RunRev adds independent column alignment to  
>> fields.
>>
>> Slogging through big blocks of text line by line and/or word by word,
>> measuring each and adding/subtracting a number of special one-pixel
>> characters can be quite slow, and not the sort of thing I enjoy  
>> teaching
>> to newcomers for simple text alignment.
>>
>> So hopefully instead we can just get the appearance we want just as we
>> want it at the moment it's rendered.  I doesn't hurt to ask. :)
>>
> Yes, and we have those text-description languages available now:  
> postscript (which most of us now experience as PDF) and TeX/LaTeX--- 
> both of which microtype to way (way!) better than a 1-pixel  
> character.  Writing the code for either is (relatively) trivial.  So,  
> given every modern operating system has engines for both, all Rev has  
> to do is invoke the engines when needed.  For example, in addition to  
> html, one should be able to declare a field postscript or TeX/LaTeX,  
> put the code, and Rev simply calls the appropriate engine/renderer to  
> produce it.

A stroke of genius, Dr. Vokey.

I was pondering sub-pixel measurements over dinner this evening, unsure 
if even twips would suffice.  Then I come back to read your post. Yes 
indeed, it would seem the essentials are available for all platforms. 
Maybe somewhere down the road (after independent column alignment, of 
course <g>), we just might see that sort of text rendering flexibility 
in Rev.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From kee at kagi.com  Thu Dec 18 01:56:11 2008
From: kee at kagi.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:56:11 -0800
Subject: OT: Apple Announces Its Last Year at Macworld
In-Reply-To: <5A1F3296-972F-4742-9C34-5E1C56DA7BC6@twft.com>
References: <748397.8832.qm@web65412.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<4948D7D7.807@armbase.com>
	<7c87a2a10812171146k2a98ac6o9b38724cf4587453@mail.gmail.com>
	<5A1F3296-972F-4742-9C34-5E1C56DA7BC6@twft.com>
Message-ID: <8C7968DB-CE4F-4540-9849-9A4386C21CE8@kagi.com>


On Dec 17, 2008, at 2:23 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

> I read an article about this some time back. The conventions used to  
> be affordable, but now the people who put them on really gouge the  
> vendors to the point that it is not even remotely feasible to attend  
> as a vendor, even with the business that may be potentially  
> generated due to their presence their.
>
> If conferences want to prevent their own extinction they had better  
> get a LOT more realistic about what they charge vendors to attend.  
> That goes with ALL businesses these days.

These are numbers from memory and they are probably wrong so don't  
quote them but they are in the ballpark. In the 1 meter by 1 meter  
kiosk boothlets at MacWorld, the boothlet itself is around $3000 and  
if you want shared wireless internet for one computer only thats  
another $1100. The 10 x 10 booths are around $5000 but then you need  
to have a minimum of two people staffing it and you need "a booth"  
which can cost thousands to create and thousands to get assembled by  
trade show workers who don't really care if you are happy with their  
work or not.

We go because it is a very easy place for us to talk to all our  
existing suppliers. Having the boothlet gives us a place to meet and a  
place for people to find us to talk. For us it is worthwhile but the  
prices are as much as they can charge without killing the golden calf  
(oh wait a minute, sounds like the calf just got slaughtered).

Kee Nethery
Kagi


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Dec 18 10:51:39 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 16:51:39 +0100
Subject: [ANN][EN][FR] ListMagic 1.0 by So Smart Software
Message-ID: <CC865BFA-B6B2-46B6-BB22-769905FF009C@sosmartsoftware.com>

Paris, Friday, December 18, 2008

---------------------- English version -------------------------

I'm happy to announce that ListMagic 1.0 is available:

ListMagic is a widget for Revolution Studio or Enterprise (but  
MetaCard also) that requires 2.9 engine or higher.

ListMagic instantly generates lists complete with:

? iTunes configurable look and feel
? Column headings
? Automatically resizing column widths
? User resizable columns using drag
? Columns reorganization using drag and drop
? Multiple ascending or descending columns sort
? In-line editing
? Built in filtering
? Built in search
? Built in print and export functions
? Built in everything!

Using ListMagic Wizard, configure ListMagic to suit exactly your  
needs in an glance for Mac OS X, XP, Vista or Linux and take the  
programming out of programming lists.
Full documentation for beginners as for advanced users included.

You will find ListMagic fully functional trial version by going to  
http://www.sosmartsoftware.com Revolution/Plugins section.
Screenshots and more information on my website or by going to http:// 
www.sosmartsoftware.com/screenshots/listmagicosx.jpg

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.


--------------------- Version fran?aise ------------------------

J'ai de plaisir d'annoncer la sortie de ListMagic 1.0 :

ListMagic est un widget pour Revolution Studio ou Enterprise (mais  
aussi MetaCard) qui requiert le moteur 2.9 ou ult?rieur.

ListMagic g?n?re instantan?ment des listes compl?tes avec :

? iTunes look and feel configurable
? Headers
? Redimensionnement automatique des colonnes
? Redimensionnemen manuel des colonnes par glisser
? R?organisation des colonnes par glisser-d?poser
? Tri multiple ascendant ou descendant des colonnes
? Edition des items
? Filtrage int?gr?
? Recherche int?gr?e
? Fonctions d'impression et d'export int?gr?es
? Tout int?gr?!

Avec ListMagic Wizard, configurez ListMagic en fonction de vos  
besoins en un clin d'oeil pour Mac OS X, XP, Vista ou Linux et  
concentrez-vous sur votre application en oubliant la programmation  
des listes.
Documentation compl?te incluse pour les d?butants comme pour les  
utilisateurs confirm?s.

Vous trouverez la version d'essai enti?rement fonctionnelle de  
ListMagic sur http://www.sosmartsoftware.com - Section Revolution/ 
Plugins.
Copies d'?cran et plus d'information sur mon site ou en affichant  
http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/screenshots/listmagicosx.jpg

Cordialement,
Eric Chatonet.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Pour les institutionnels, les entreprises et les associations
Des logiciels sur mesure : gestion, multim?dia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS et Linux... Avec la "french touch"

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Web site		http://www.sosmartsoftware.com
Email		eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com
Phone		33 (0) 143 317 762
Mobile		33 (0) 620 745 086
-------------------------------------------------------------------




From eric.miclo at wanadoo.fr  Thu Dec 18 11:23:27 2008
From: eric.miclo at wanadoo.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C9ric_Miclo?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 17:23:27 +0100
Subject: [ANN][EN][FR] ListMagic 1.0 by So Smart Software
In-Reply-To: <CC865BFA-B6B2-46B6-BB22-769905FF009C@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <CC865BFA-B6B2-46B6-BB22-769905FF009C@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <4C5C720C-914C-477B-A51C-3784ED474367@wanadoo.fr>

Hello ?ric,

It looks awesome!

I've one question: would it be possible to be able to change the  
edited cell by pressing the tabkey (and validating the previous edited  
cell)?

Thanks for your great work!

Best,

?rIC

Le 18 d?c. 08 ? 16:51, Eric Chatonet a ?crit :

>
> Paris, Friday, December 18, 2008
>
> ---------------------- English version -------------------------
>
> I'm happy to announce that ListMagic 1.0 is available:
>
> ListMagic is a widget for Revolution Studio or Enterprise (but  
> MetaCard also) that requires 2.9 engine or higher.
>
> ListMagic instantly generates lists complete with:
>
> ? iTunes configurable look and feel
> ? Column headings
> ? Automatically resizing column widths
> ? User resizable columns using drag
> ? Columns reorganization using drag and drop
> ? Multiple ascending or descending columns sort
> ? In-line editing
> ? Built in filtering
> ? Built in search
> ? Built in print and export functions
> ? Built in everything!
>
> Using ListMagic Wizard, configure ListMagic to suit exactly your  
> needs in an glance for Mac OS X, XP, Vista or Linux and take the  
> programming out of programming lists.
> Full documentation for beginners as for advanced users included.
>
> You will find ListMagic fully functional trial version by going to http://www.sosmartsoftware.com 
>  Revolution/Plugins section.
> Screenshots and more information on my website or by going to http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/screenshots/listmagicosx.jpg
>
> Best regards from Paris,
> Eric Chatonet.
>
>
> --------------------- Version fran?aise ------------------------
>
> J'ai de plaisir d'annoncer la sortie de ListMagic 1.0 :
>
> ListMagic est un widget pour Revolution Studio ou Enterprise (mais  
> aussi MetaCard) qui requiert le moteur 2.9 ou ult?rieur.
>
> ListMagic g?n?re instantan?ment des listes compl?tes avec :
>
> ? iTunes look and feel configurable
> ? Headers
> ? Redimensionnement automatique des colonnes
> ? Redimensionnemen manuel des colonnes par glisser
> ? R?organisation des colonnes par glisser-d?poser
> ? Tri multiple ascendant ou descendant des colonnes
> ? Edition des items
> ? Filtrage int?gr?
> ? Recherche int?gr?e
> ? Fonctions d'impression et d'export int?gr?es
> ? Tout int?gr?!
>
> Avec ListMagic Wizard, configurez ListMagic en fonction de vos  
> besoins en un clin d'oeil pour Mac OS X, XP, Vista ou Linux et  
> concentrez-vous sur votre application en oubliant la programmation  
> des listes.
> Documentation compl?te incluse pour les d?butants comme pour les  
> utilisateurs confirm?s.
>
> Vous trouverez la version d'essai enti?rement fonctionnelle de  
> ListMagic sur http://www.sosmartsoftware.com - Section Revolution/ 
> Plugins.
> Copies d'?cran et plus d'information sur mon site ou en affichant http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/screenshots/listmagicosx.jpg
>
> Cordialement,
> Eric Chatonet.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> So Smart Software
>
> For institutions, companies and associations
> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
> Pour les institutionnels, les entreprises et les associations
> Des logiciels sur mesure : gestion, multim?dia, internet, etc.
> Windows, Mac OS et Linux... Avec la "french touch"
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Web site		http://www.sosmartsoftware.com
> Email		eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com
> Phone		33 (0) 143 317 762
> Mobile		33 (0) 620 745 086
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

-- My NeXT computer will Be a Mac too! --




From eric.miclo at wanadoo.fr  Thu Dec 18 11:26:43 2008
From: eric.miclo at wanadoo.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C9ric_Miclo?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 17:26:43 +0100
Subject: [ANN][EN][FR] ListMagic 1.0 by So Smart Software
In-Reply-To: <CC865BFA-B6B2-46B6-BB22-769905FF009C@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <CC865BFA-B6B2-46B6-BB22-769905FF009C@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <0B2D280D-AFAE-459E-B398-C3756FA27A47@wanadoo.fr>

One more question: if the number of columns is greater than 5 you cant  
access to the last ones without resizing the window.

Would it be possible to add an horizontal scrollbar if the window's  
size is fixed?

?rIC


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Dec 18 11:27:49 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 17:27:49 +0100
Subject: [ANN][EN][FR] ListMagic 1.0 by So Smart Software
In-Reply-To: <4C5C720C-914C-477B-A51C-3784ED474367@wanadoo.fr>
References: <CC865BFA-B6B2-46B6-BB22-769905FF009C@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<4C5C720C-914C-477B-A51C-3784ED474367@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <E2683DB7-3BBE-47E0-A2A5-37E1C0F5228E@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonjour ?ric,

Le 18 d?c. 08 ? 17:23, ?ric Miclo a ?crit :

> Hello ?ric,
>
> It looks awesome!
>
> I've one question: would it be possible to be able to change the  
> edited cell by pressing the tabkey (and validating the previous  
> edited cell)?
>
> Thanks for your great work!
>
> Best,
>
> ?rIC

Good idea for next update :-)

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Dec 18 11:30:29 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 17:30:29 +0100
Subject: [ANN][EN][FR] ListMagic 1.0 by So Smart Software
In-Reply-To: <0B2D280D-AFAE-459E-B398-C3756FA27A47@wanadoo.fr>
References: <CC865BFA-B6B2-46B6-BB22-769905FF009C@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<0B2D280D-AFAE-459E-B398-C3756FA27A47@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <C321BBC5-EBFA-4248-ADFB-91C7FE53BCEF@sosmartsoftware.com>

Re,

Le 18 d?c. 08 ? 17:26, ?ric Miclo a ?crit :

> One more question: if the number of columns is greater than 5 you  
> cant access to the last ones without resizing the window.
>
> Would it be possible to add an horizontal scrollbar if the window's  
> size is fixed?

 From ListMagic docs:

ListMagic allows you to specify a number of columns* or to choose  
Auto option.
Why specify a number of columns or choose Auto?

* Nine columns only in this demo stack but as many as you want when  
installing the widget.

  	When choosing Auto option, the widget will fit your data list and  
will display as many header tabs as there are items in a data line.
In this case the list will have a horizontal scrollbar because all  
columns are shown.

  	When specifying a number, the widget will display the specified  
number of headers disregarding the number of items in a data line.
In this case the list will not have a horizontal scrollbar because  
all columns are not shown in order to keep hidden data.

Why would you hide some data?
Having hidden data may appear very useful when processing:
For instance:
A column may display Internet domain names while a hidden column is  
storing corresponding urls. Whatever sort can be done, the right data  
is always in the right line without needing to build an external  
index to get the url.
Actually, the list field itself can contain all needed indexed values  
without letting the user seeing or accessing them:

	on LMMouseDoubleUp pLineNo
	   settheitemDelimitertotab
	   launchurlitem 9 of LMExtractLines(pLineNo)
	   -- see this function in the syntax section
	end LMMouseDoubleUp

In this example, if the number of columns has been set to eight, the  
user will not see the url but a double click on the line will open  
his browser to the right url because it is item 9 (not displayed) in  
the list field and easily retrieved whatever sort can have been made.
See LMMouseDoubleUp message and LMExtractLines function in Syntax  
section.

Actually, using hidden data feature depends also on the number of  
displayed columns:
Remember that screens are not extendable and only Auto (with no  
hidden data) allows a horizontal scroll bar.
Such a choice depends on many things: it is up to you and depends on  
your needs.

Hope this clarifies :-)


Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From bobs at twft.com  Thu Dec 18 12:36:09 2008
From: bobs at twft.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 09:36:09 -0800
Subject: [ANN][EN][FR] ListMagic 1.0 by So Smart Software
In-Reply-To: <CC865BFA-B6B2-46B6-BB22-769905FF009C@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <CC865BFA-B6B2-46B6-BB22-769905FF009C@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <B7B7A7EB-616C-42EE-AAA6-5DD2987CF79B@twft.com>

I'm curious if it is possible to display a range of cells. Let's say  
my query returns records with a unique index number as the first  
column, the deleted flag as the second column, and then the data I  
want to see. It would be great if I could supply a range of columns to  
display or even a list of columns. This way sorts to the list would  
sort all data but only show the columns I want to show.

Just pondering.

Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM




From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Dec 18 12:45:02 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:45:02 +0100
Subject: [ANN][EN][FR] ListMagic 1.0 by So Smart Software
In-Reply-To: <B7B7A7EB-616C-42EE-AAA6-5DD2987CF79B@twft.com>
References: <CC865BFA-B6B2-46B6-BB22-769905FF009C@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<B7B7A7EB-616C-42EE-AAA6-5DD2987CF79B@twft.com>
Message-ID: <8FB47C6B-AA69-4D06-A68D-920F5D72B7F3@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonsoir Bob,

Le 18 d?c. 08 ? 18:36, Bob Sneidar a ?crit :

> I'm curious if it is possible to display a range of cells. Let's  
> say my query returns records with a unique index number as the  
> first column, the deleted flag as the second column, and then the  
> data I want to see. It would be great if I could supply a range of  
> columns to display or even a list of columns. This way sorts to the  
> list would sort all data but only show the columns I want to show.

As ListMagic was designed, hidden columns can be on the 'right' only.
My goal was to make ListMagic easy to use, e.g. by letting anybody  
feed it exactly as any list field in Revolution, using a simple tab/ 
tab/return plain text list as we are used to, and having all other  
features completely automatized.

So, if I understand well (but I'm not sure :-), you would want to  
have hidden columns on the 'left'.
This is not possible, but...
If you reorganize your data to have your hidden data (flags, etc.) as  
the 'last' items of any line, it will work perfectly as long as you  
don't choose the 'Auto' option for the number of columns but a fixed  
value.
In such a case, all 'extra columns' will be never seen by the user  
e.g. by your code only ;-)

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From support at ahsomme.com  Thu Dec 18 12:58:13 2008
From: support at ahsomme.com (Paul Looney)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 09:58:13 -0800
Subject: [ANN][EN][FR] ListMagic 1.0 by So Smart Software
In-Reply-To: <8FB47C6B-AA69-4D06-A68D-920F5D72B7F3@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <CC865BFA-B6B2-46B6-BB22-769905FF009C@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<B7B7A7EB-616C-42EE-AAA6-5DD2987CF79B@twft.com>
	<8FB47C6B-AA69-4D06-A68D-920F5D72B7F3@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <B70F0CD2-CCFC-4A29-B322-44BD46DADB38@ahsomme.com>

Eric, Bob,
Could one have a column of zero width?
If so, this would allow for invisible columns anywhere in the list  
(seen by the computer but not the user).
If zero is not possible, a column of one pixel would work as well (as  
long as there is no vertical grid displayed).
Paul Looney

On Dec 18, 2008, at 9:45 AM, Eric Chatonet wrote:

> Bonsoir Bob,
>
> Le 18 d?c. 08 ? 18:36, Bob Sneidar a ?crit :
>
>> I'm curious if it is possible to display a range of cells. Let's  
>> say my query returns records with a unique index number as the  
>> first column, the deleted flag as the second column, and then the  
>> data I want to see. It would be great if I could supply a range of  
>> columns to display or even a list of columns. This way sorts to  
>> the list would sort all data but only show the columns I want to  
>> show.
>
> As ListMagic was designed, hidden columns can be on the 'right' only.
> My goal was to make ListMagic easy to use, e.g. by letting anybody  
> feed it exactly as any list field in Revolution, using a simple tab/ 
> tab/return plain text list as we are used to, and having all other  
> features completely automatized.
>
> So, if I understand well (but I'm not sure :-), you would want to  
> have hidden columns on the 'left'.
> This is not possible, but...
> If you reorganize your data to have your hidden data (flags, etc.)  
> as the 'last' items of any line, it will work perfectly as long as  
> you don't choose the 'Auto' option for the number of columns but a  
> fixed value.
> In such a case, all 'extra columns' will be never seen by the user  
> e.g. by your code only ;-)
>
> Best regards from Paris,
> Eric Chatonet.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From bobs at twft.com  Thu Dec 18 13:01:11 2008
From: bobs at twft.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 10:01:11 -0800
Subject: [ANN][EN][FR] ListMagic 1.0 by So Smart Software
In-Reply-To: <8FB47C6B-AA69-4D06-A68D-920F5D72B7F3@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <CC865BFA-B6B2-46B6-BB22-769905FF009C@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<B7B7A7EB-616C-42EE-AAA6-5DD2987CF79B@twft.com>
	<8FB47C6B-AA69-4D06-A68D-920F5D72B7F3@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <A07CACD2-7F5A-440F-9CA5-02352D1C0787@twft.com>

Awesome Eric. Now you have gotten me halfway through my problem I  
wonder if I could enquire if you or anyone has come up with a good  
search form? I am looking for something along the lines of a form  
where I start with a single query, but can add further conditions if  
necessary.

A query line would contain a popup menu for a column name, a popup for  
a comparison (is, is not, contains, does not contain etc.), and the  
text to search for. What it would return is a properly formatted SQL  
query. I was going to write it myself, and may still do so, but what I  
had in mind was not going to be very portable.

Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM

On Dec 18, 2008, at 9:45 AM, Eric Chatonet wrote:

> Bonsoir Bob,
>
> Le 18 d?c. 08 ? 18:36, Bob Sneidar a ?crit :
>
>> I'm curious if it is possible to display a range of cells. Let's
>> say my query returns records with a unique index number as the
>> first column, the deleted flag as the second column, and then the
>> data I want to see. It would be great if I could supply a range of
>> columns to display or even a list of columns. This way sorts to the
>> list would sort all data but only show the columns I want to show.
>
> As ListMagic was designed, hidden columns can be on the 'right' only.
> My goal was to make ListMagic easy to use, e.g. by letting anybody
> feed it exactly as any list field in Revolution, using a simple tab/
> tab/return plain text list as we are used to, and having all other
> features completely automatized.
>
> So, if I understand well (but I'm not sure :-), you would want to
> have hidden columns on the 'left'.
> This is not possible, but...
> If you reorganize your data to have your hidden data (flags, etc.) as
> the 'last' items of any line, it will work perfectly as long as you
> don't choose the 'Auto' option for the number of columns but a fixed
> value.
> In such a case, all 'extra columns' will be never seen by the user
> e.g. by your code only ;-)
>
> Best regards from Paris,
> Eric Chatonet.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Dec 18 13:04:33 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:04:33 +0100
Subject: [ANN][EN][FR] ListMagic 1.0 by So Smart Software
In-Reply-To: <B70F0CD2-CCFC-4A29-B322-44BD46DADB38@ahsomme.com>
References: <CC865BFA-B6B2-46B6-BB22-769905FF009C@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<B7B7A7EB-616C-42EE-AAA6-5DD2987CF79B@twft.com>
	<8FB47C6B-AA69-4D06-A68D-920F5D72B7F3@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<B70F0CD2-CCFC-4A29-B322-44BD46DADB38@ahsomme.com>
Message-ID: <3DA0B447-DE1F-428D-8BD1-F627C9D36614@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonsoir Paul,

Le 18 d?c. 08 ? 18:58, Paul Looney a ?crit :

> Eric, Bob,
> Could one have a column of zero width?
> If so, this would allow for invisible columns anywhere in the list  
> (seen by the computer but not the user).
> If zero is not possible, a column of one pixel would work as well  
> (as long as there is no vertical grid displayed).
> Paul Looney

Actually, Revolution:
1. Does not allow tabstops set to zero.
2. Does not allow to specify grid color unless for the whole field.

Of course, I have tried it :-)

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Dec 18 13:11:04 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:11:04 +0100
Subject: [ANN][EN][FR] ListMagic 1.0 by So Smart Software
In-Reply-To: <A07CACD2-7F5A-440F-9CA5-02352D1C0787@twft.com>
References: <CC865BFA-B6B2-46B6-BB22-769905FF009C@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<B7B7A7EB-616C-42EE-AAA6-5DD2987CF79B@twft.com>
	<8FB47C6B-AA69-4D06-A68D-920F5D72B7F3@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<A07CACD2-7F5A-440F-9CA5-02352D1C0787@twft.com>
Message-ID: <2C975E9B-EDDE-4CF2-A9CD-27F2083FBF28@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonsoir Bob,

Le 18 d?c. 08 ? 19:01, Bob Sneidar a ?crit :

> Awesome Eric. Now you have gotten me halfway through my problem I  
> wonder if I could enquire if you or anyone has come up with a good  
> search form? I am looking for something along the lines of a form  
> where I start with a single query, but can add further conditions  
> if necessary.

ListMagic is provided with a built-in search tool that searches for  
any string and even, in carousel through multiple widgets on the same  
card.
But you may write your own tool and override ListMagic one easily:  
see the docs.

> A query line would contain a popup menu for a column name, a popup  
> for a comparison (is, is not, contains, does not contain etc.), and  
> the text to search for. What it would return is a properly  
> formatted SQL query. I was going to write it myself, and may still  
> do so, but what I had in mind was not going to be very portable.


As you guessed it, perfectionism can be counter-productive :-)
And I wanted this widget easy to use, even for beginners.
Nevertheless concerning contextual menus in the list field itself or  
the header: you can modify, enhance them as you desire: see  
ListMagic  FAQ for more information.

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From mstuart at adaptcrm.com  Thu Dec 18 13:12:09 2008
From: mstuart at adaptcrm.com (Mark Stuart)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 10:12:09 -0800
Subject: conditionally formatting a field
Message-ID: <F717B2796E5D2F499032573DBC497FC1018CA8A6@asa-mail.adaptcrm.com>

Hi Jan,

I tried the 'Appearance Manager'. It looks interesting, but for the gain
in what it gives, I lose the real look and feel of the native platform.

 

I do have the 'threeD' property unchecked and the 'borderWidth' set to
1.

 

If you are on Windows, look at how Outlook behaves with the Find / 'Look
for' and 'Search In' edit controls.

Mouse over and out of these controls. Now put the cursor in the 'Look
for' edit control, and then mouse over and out again.

This is the behavior I'm looking to do. Kind of basic stuff, but can't
get it with RunRev.

 

So here's a question that may help with this:

Programmatically, when do I know that a text field has focus?

Something like: 'if the Focus of me is true then'

 

- I tried the focusIn and focusOut - nothing from them.

- Obviously openField, exitField, and closeField work no problem

And mouseEnter and mouseLeave have to work with this also.

 

Anyone with and idea on this?

 

Regards,

Mark Stuart

 



From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com  Thu Dec 18 13:33:54 2008
From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 10:33:54 -0800
Subject: OT: Apple Announces Its Last Year at Macworld
In-Reply-To: <4903961D-00CF-4126-AC46-7124E7BA5817@siphonophore.com>
References: <20081218041212.121914897EC@mail.runrev.com>
	<4903961D-00CF-4126-AC46-7124E7BA5817@siphonophore.com>
Message-ID: <CA1A181F81EF4AA19A08D80CF6A3C9C5@GATEWAY>

> Lastly i wonder if Apple is just seeing the writing on the 
> walls with travel getting more expensive and harder that 
> folks may just not be in the mood much any more to attend 
> conferences like these that are mainly trade shows. I loved 
> comdex, mac world, NAB, CES but these days its really hard 
> for me to think about spending the money and time and effort 
> to attend a trade show anymore. nothing like seeing something 
> in person, but then again I have not had to really see any 
> major hardware purchases for exhibits in person for a long 
> time now and the last few trade shows have given me very few 
> leads to new items to use.

Well, Im still going this year :-)

I already blogg'd about why this is the natural progression of where Apple
is going (if interested, see below). They've managed to take almost 100%
control or completely eliminate any outside influence or venue on their
profitability and valuation. Having expectations set of product releases by
a third party (expecting Apple to plan their releases around an event) -
even MacWorld Expo - is just another step. I think its pretty clearly
spelled out in the press release. They have "on demand" access to customers
through the Apple Store, so MacWorld doesn't do much for them except for
that influence.


http://www.lynnfredricks.com/2008/12/17/why-apple-said-goodbye-to-macworld-a
nd-why-it-makes-sense/

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 



From jhurley0305 at sbcglobal.net  Thu Dec 18 15:17:56 2008
From: jhurley0305 at sbcglobal.net (James Hurley)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 12:17:56 -0800
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <20081217180005.3CAFE489082@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20081217180005.3CAFE489082@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <A7458631-422B-4CEB-96EC-2B9D1A5AB871@sbcglobal.net>

>
> Message: 16
> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 12:02:24 -0400
> From: "william humphrey" <shoreagent at gmail.com>
> Subject: Table field text formating
> To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<459b22a90812170802p31aef3a3oeb0c1d1955411623 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I keep running into this problem and making work-arounds that are  
> not at all
> elegant. It would sure be wonderful if you could set the alignment  
> in one
> column of a table field to "right" and the next column in the same  
> table
> field to another alignment say "left".
> Is there a way to do this?
>
>

Bill,

Some time ago there was a thread concerning fully justified text. It  
was a while ago and I don't remember the details.
I wrote a plug-in to do this. In the message box enter the following  
to see the utility.

go url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/JustifyTextPlugin.rev"

It might give you some ideas for right  justification.

Jim Hurley



From SparkOutYNY at gmail.com  Thu Dec 18 17:31:34 2008
From: SparkOutYNY at gmail.com (SparkOut)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 14:31:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: conditionally formatting a field
In-Reply-To: <F717B2796E5D2F499032573DBC497FC1018CA8A6@asa-mail.adaptcrm.com>
References: <21067108.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<F717B2796E5D2F499032573DBC497FC1018CA8A6@asa-mail.adaptcrm.com>
Message-ID: <21082222.post@talk.nabble.com>



Mark Stuart wrote:
> 
> Hi Jan,
> 
> I tried the 'Appearance Manager'. It looks interesting, but for the gain
> in what it gives, I lose the real look and feel of the native platform.
> 
>  
> 
> I do have the 'threeD' property unchecked and the 'borderWidth' set to
> 1.
> 
>  
> 
> If you are on Windows, look at how Outlook behaves with the Find / 'Look
> for' and 'Search In' edit controls.
> 
> Mouse over and out of these controls. Now put the cursor in the 'Look
> for' edit control, and then mouse over and out again.
> 
> This is the behavior I'm looking to do. Kind of basic stuff, but can't
> get it with RunRev.
> 
>  
> 
> So here's a question that may help with this:
> 
> Programmatically, when do I know that a text field has focus?
> 
> Something like: 'if the Focus of me is true then'
> 
>  
> 
> - I tried the focusIn and focusOut - nothing from them.
> 
> - Obviously openField, exitField, and closeField work no problem
> 
> And mouseEnter and mouseLeave have to work with this also.
> 
>  
> 
> Anyone with and idea on this?
> 
>  
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mark Stuart
> 
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 
This works for me:

on mouseEnter
   set the borderColor of me to "#000000"
end mouseEnter

on mouseLeave
   if the focusedObject is the long id of me then
      set the borderColor of me to "#000000"
   else
      set the borderColor of me to "#ffffff"
   end if
end mouseLeave

--you might think that focus in and out messages would be appropriate
on focusIn
   set the borderColor of me to "#000000"
end focusIn

on focusOut
   set the borderColor of me to "#ffffff"
end focusOut

--but for focusIn, Rev dictionary says:
Comments:
If the control is an unlocked field or a button whose menuMode is
"comboBox", the openField message is sent to it instead of the focusIn
message.

and for focusOut, Rev dictionary says:
Comments:
If the control is an unlocked field or a button whose menuMode is
"comboBox", the closeField or exitField message is sent to it instead of the
focusOut message.

--so check for both exit and close field messages instead
on exitField
   set the borderColor of me to "#ffffff"
end exitField

on closeField
   set the borderColor of me to "#ffffff"
end closeField

All that works fine for me in Rev Studio 3.0 on Windows XP.
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/conditionally-formatting-a-field-tp21067108p21082222.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From mfstuart at cox.net  Thu Dec 18 19:11:53 2008
From: mfstuart at cox.net (mfstuart)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 16:11:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: conditionally formatting a field
In-Reply-To: <21082222.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <21067108.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<F717B2796E5D2F499032573DBC497FC1018CA8A6@asa-mail.adaptcrm.com>
	<21082222.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <21083539.post@talk.nabble.com>


SparkOut,
The 'focusedObject' is the key script element for this to work.
Thanx for the scripts. It works exactly how I want it to. 

---------
on mouseLeave
   if the focusedObject is the long id of me then
      set the borderColor of me to "#000000"
   else
      set the borderColor of me to "#ffffff"
   end if
end mouseLeave
---------

Regards,
Mark stuart
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/conditionally-formatting-a-field-tp21067108p21083539.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From SparkOutYNY at gmail.com  Thu Dec 18 19:21:23 2008
From: SparkOutYNY at gmail.com (SparkOut)
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 16:21:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: conditionally formatting a field
In-Reply-To: <21083539.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <21067108.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<F717B2796E5D2F499032573DBC497FC1018CA8A6@asa-mail.adaptcrm.com>
	<21082222.post@talk.nabble.com> <21083539.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <21083662.post@talk.nabble.com>



mfstuart wrote:
> 
> SparkOut,
> The 'focusedObject' is the key script element for this to work.
> Thanx for the scripts. It works exactly how I want it to. 
> 
> ---------
> on mouseLeave
>    if the focusedObject is the long id of me then
>       set the borderColor of me to "#000000"
>    else
>       set the borderColor of me to "#ffffff"
>    end if
> end mouseLeave
> ---------
> 
> Regards,
> Mark stuart
> 
Glad it worked. Of course there is redundancy in the mouseLeave handler
above - you could always reduce it to:

on mouseLeave
  if the focusedObject is not the long id of me then
    set the borderColor of me to "#ffffff"
  end if
end mouseLeave

as in theory the borderColor should already be set to black anyway.
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/conditionally-formatting-a-field-tp21067108p21083662.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Dec 19 03:21:53 2008
From: palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk (Peter Alcibiades)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 00:21:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [ANN][EN][FR] ListMagic 1.0 by So Smart Software
In-Reply-To: <CC865BFA-B6B2-46B6-BB22-769905FF009C@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <CC865BFA-B6B2-46B6-BB22-769905FF009C@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <21087444.post@talk.nabble.com>


Only one complaint, that it makes life far too easy for the lazy among us! 
After a brief inspection it seems like a wonderful little timesaver. And it
looks very professional, too. In about a week I can imagine wondering, did
we really use once to do tables by hand?  That must have been a long time
ago....

Peter



Eric Chatonet wrote:
> 
> Paris, Friday, December 18, 2008
> 
> ---------------------- English version -------------------------
> 
> I'm happy to announce that ListMagic 1.0 is available:
> 
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/-ANN--EN--FR--ListMagic-1.0-by-So-Smart-Software-tp21075413p21087444.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Dec 19 03:26:02 2008
From: palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk (Peter Alcibiades)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 00:26:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [ANN][EN][FR] ListMagic 1.0 by So Smart Software
In-Reply-To: <CC865BFA-B6B2-46B6-BB22-769905FF009C@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <CC865BFA-B6B2-46B6-BB22-769905FF009C@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <21087501.post@talk.nabble.com>


By the way, you mention it 'should' work on Linux. It seems to work fine.  At
least, without exhaustive testing, it installs, inserting the widgets work,
the sorts work, the edits work.  
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/-ANN--EN--FR--ListMagic-1.0-by-So-Smart-Software-tp21075413p21087501.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From briany at qldlearning.com  Fri Dec 19 03:44:06 2008
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 00:44:06 -0800
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <82057BDE-81A1-495C-AA76-02BA8110B858@pacifier.com>
References: <4949A1C8.4060401@fourthworld.com>	<140DC714-86B5-4FAD-B99C-C9CC07C9851B@pacifier.com>	<4949C313.40905@hyperactivesw.com>
	<D47BB633-6F91-4527-8B41-BCF37A5EC9DD@pacifier.com>
	<4949CD93.105@hyperactivesw.com>
	<82057BDE-81A1-495C-AA76-02BA8110B858@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <41FACD55-2AE1-41EC-B8C3-9146C801D86E@qldlearning.com>

JB,

FWIW, I believe the Rev text engine is something written specifically  
for Rev to be cross-platform and does not plug in to platform specific  
engines such as MLTE. So the upside is that they can pretty much do  
whatever they want (and have it work cross platform). The downside is  
that Rev doesn't always automatically inherit OS-specific features.

This may have changed in the past couple of years, but as far as I  
know that's the case.

> Thank you for the info and code.  I wasn't the one who started this  
> thread and from your
> statement about wrecking any text parsing I will hold off on  
> justification for now.  But it is
> important to know if the Rev Team decides to use Apples MLTE text  
> engine you can be
> assured Kerning and Tracking will not ever be made available so it  
> is time to forget it or
> write your own text engine using and extension or whatever.



From geradamas at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 19 04:34:12 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:34:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hammering on about Paragraphs
Message-ID: <373474.15484.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Just to reiterate that I think it would extremely
useful if RR were to be capable of identifying both:

1. British indented paragraphs; this presupposes that the
TAB key would work inside textFields.

2. North American paragraphs [i.e. those signalled by
a missing line].

I realise that RR is not really just a small something for
knocking out TextEdit clones; however, it can be used for
building quite decent text analysis programs. The addition
of the capability to recognise paragraphs would change that
'decent' to 'good'.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From rev at armbase.com  Fri Dec 19 04:44:45 2008
From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 09:44:45 +0000
Subject: [ANN][EN][FR] ListMagic 1.0 by So Smart Software
In-Reply-To: <2C975E9B-EDDE-4CF2-A9CD-27F2083FBF28@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <CC865BFA-B6B2-46B6-BB22-769905FF009C@sosmartsoftware.com>	<B7B7A7EB-616C-42EE-AAA6-5DD2987CF79B@twft.com>	<8FB47C6B-AA69-4D06-A68D-920F5D72B7F3@sosmartsoftware.com>	<A07CACD2-7F5A-440F-9CA5-02352D1C0787@twft.com>
	<2C975E9B-EDDE-4CF2-A9CD-27F2083FBF28@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <494B6D0D.4020602@armbase.com>

Eric Chatonet wrote:
Hi Eric
I have just downloaded the plugin. I don't need to look at it to know it 
will be great. :-)

However, the browser script to enter details does not work on Linux 
(Mandrive 2009 KDE4) with Firefox 3.03.
Just thought I'd let you know.

Bob
> Bonsoir Bob,
>
> Le 18 d?c. 08 ? 19:01, Bob Sneidar a ?crit :
>
>> Awesome Eric. Now you have gotten me halfway through my problem I 
>> wonder if I could enquire if you or anyone has come up with a good 
>> search form? I am looking for something along the lines of a form 
>> where I start with a single query, but can add further conditions if 
>> necessary.
>
> ListMagic is provided with a built-in search tool that searches for 
> any string and even, in carousel through multiple widgets on the same 
> card.
> But you may write your own tool and override ListMagic one easily: see 
> the docs.
>
>> A query line would contain a popup menu for a column name, a popup 
>> for a comparison (is, is not, contains, does not contain etc.), and 
>> the text to search for. What it would return is a properly formatted 
>> SQL query. I was going to write it myself, and may still do so, but 
>> what I had in mind was not going to be very portable.
>
>
> As you guessed it, perfectionism can be counter-productive :-)
> And I wanted this widget easy to use, even for beginners.
> Nevertheless concerning contextual menus in the list field itself or 
> the header: you can modify, enhance them as you desire: see ListMagic  
> FAQ for more information.
>
> Best regards from Paris,
> Eric Chatonet.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Fri Dec 19 04:55:32 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 10:55:32 +0100
Subject: [ANN][EN][FR] ListMagic 1.0 by So Smart Software
In-Reply-To: <494B6D0D.4020602@armbase.com>
References: <CC865BFA-B6B2-46B6-BB22-769905FF009C@sosmartsoftware.com>	<B7B7A7EB-616C-42EE-AAA6-5DD2987CF79B@twft.com>	<8FB47C6B-AA69-4D06-A68D-920F5D72B7F3@sosmartsoftware.com>	<A07CACD2-7F5A-440F-9CA5-02352D1C0787@twft.com>
	<2C975E9B-EDDE-4CF2-A9CD-27F2083FBF28@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<494B6D0D.4020602@armbase.com>
Message-ID: <CA51E6F3-BBF7-4DDA-A8A4-E32614F0AFCC@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonjour Bob,

Le 19 d?c. 08 ? 10:44, Bob Hartley a ?crit :

> Hi Eric
> I have just downloaded the plugin. I don't need to look at it to  
> know it will be great. :-)
>
> However, the browser script to enter details does not work on Linux  
> (Mandrive 2009 KDE4) with Firefox 3.03.
> Just thought I'd let you know.
>
> Bob

Thanks for the kind words.
Now I don't understand what you call 'the browser script to enter  
details' that does not work.
Could you be kind enough to be more specific off list in order to  
solve this issue?
Thanks.


Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Dec 19 05:14:35 2008
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 02:14:35 -0800
Subject: RevBrowser Doesn't Like Backdrop?
Message-ID: <C570B40B.3E549%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Can anyone confirm that RevBrowser doesn't render properly on OS X when a
backdrop is present?  (Rev 3.0)

I have a 1000x700 browser instance on a card running a Flash animation which
runs fine.  If I apply a backdrop while running the stack and drag the stack
even the slightest bit, the browser instance seems to disappear.  If I
remove the backdrop (none), the browser reappears and the Flash animation
continues to run as expected.  I've noticed that switching to the Finder
while a backdrop is active will sometimes cause the browser to render in the
backdrop window!

What gives?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design




From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Fri Dec 19 05:18:08 2008
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ludovic_Th=E9bault?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:18:08 +0100
Subject: RevBrowser Doesn't Like Backdrop?
In-Reply-To: <C570B40B.3E549%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <C570B40B.3E549%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <1938A10A-7B09-457C-A3CE-0093DF359046@laposte.net>



Le 19 d?c. 08 ? 11:14, Scott Rossi a ?crit :

>
> Can anyone confirm that RevBrowser doesn't render properly on OS X  
> when a
> backdrop is present?  (Rev 3.0)

Yes. I opened a bug report (for rev. 2.9) about this annoying bug.


From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Fri Dec 19 07:07:05 2008
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (Scott Morrow)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 04:07:05 -0800
Subject: the user's name under OSX
Message-ID: <A774FF59-6955-43EA-87E7-6F86A4BED6BA@elementarysoftware.com>


I'm trying to get the user's name under OSX. I can get the environment  
variable

  $USER

but this only returns the user's short name.  Any ideas for getting  
the full name?


Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       http://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
------------------------------------------------------






From got at mindspring.com  Fri Dec 19 08:14:47 2008
From: got at mindspring.com (Gordon Tillman)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 07:14:47 -0600
Subject: the user's name under OSX
In-Reply-To: <A774FF59-6955-43EA-87E7-6F86A4BED6BA@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <A774FF59-6955-43EA-87E7-6F86A4BED6BA@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <9D32B189-B178-48DA-A8DD-C482D598767E@mindspring.com>

Scott in 10.5 that information is stored in Directory Services.  The  
dscl command is used to interact with that.  For example:

$ dscl . -read /Users/gordy RealName
RealName:
  Gordon Tillman

(that's me!)

--gordy


On Dec 19, 2008, at 06:07, Scott Morrow wrote:

>
> I'm trying to get the user's name under OSX. I can get the  
> environment variable
>
> $USER
>
> but this only returns the user's short name.  Any ideas for getting  
> the full name?


From sundown at pacifier.com  Fri Dec 19 08:17:40 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 05:17:40 -0800
Subject: Table field text formating
In-Reply-To: <41FACD55-2AE1-41EC-B8C3-9146C801D86E@qldlearning.com>
References: <4949A1C8.4060401@fourthworld.com>	<140DC714-86B5-4FAD-B99C-C9CC07C9851B@pacifier.com>	<4949C313.40905@hyperactivesw.com>
	<D47BB633-6F91-4527-8B41-BCF37A5EC9DD@pacifier.com>
	<4949CD93.105@hyperactivesw.com>
	<82057BDE-81A1-495C-AA76-02BA8110B858@pacifier.com>
	<41FACD55-2AE1-41EC-B8C3-9146C801D86E@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <FD962E8E-DE1B-4FC2-A352-B3FC8EF1C117@pacifier.com>

Brian,

I had heard that too but then after hearing they were doing a rewrite  
to improve
text and fields I was wondering if they were going the MLTE route.  I  
think MLTE
is based on ATSUI and if they used ATSUI it would allow kerning &  
tracking.

-=>JB<=-


On Dec 19, 2008, at 12:44 AM, Brian Yennie wrote:

> JB,
>
> FWIW, I believe the Rev text engine is something written  
> specifically for Rev to be cross-platform and does not plug in to  
> platform specific engines such as MLTE. So the upside is that they  
> can pretty much do whatever they want (and have it work cross  
> platform). The downside is that Rev doesn't always automatically  
> inherit OS-specific features.
>
> This may have changed in the past couple of years, but as far as I  
> know that's the case.
>
>> Thank you for the info and code.  I wasn't the one who started  
>> this thread and from your
>> statement about wrecking any text parsing I will hold off on  
>> justification for now.  But it is
>> important to know if the Rev Team decides to use Apples MLTE text  
>> engine you can be
>> assured Kerning and Tracking will not ever be made available so it  
>> is time to forget it or
>> write your own text engine using and extension or whatever.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From h at FlexibleLearning.com  Fri Dec 19 10:43:26 2008
From: h at FlexibleLearning.com (Hugh Senior)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:43:26 -0000
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
In-Reply-To: <20081203180005.1720F48A492@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONMEKMCBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>

I would quote this in full, but it's better on the webPage...

http://www.aegisub.net/2008/12/if-programming-languages-were-religions.html

We now need one for Rev.

/H


From rev at armbase.com  Fri Dec 19 10:51:12 2008
From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:51:12 +0000
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
In-Reply-To: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONMEKMCBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>
References: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONMEKMCBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>
Message-ID: <494BC2F0.70409@armbase.com>

Hugh Senior wrote:
> I would quote this in full, but it's better on the webPage...
>
> http://www.aegisub.net/2008/12/if-programming-languages-were-religions.html
>   
To quote
*"LOLCODE* would be *Pastafarianism*"

Is that only for Italians with dreadlocks. :-)

Maybee that is why it is called "LOL" code :-)

1hr10 mins to go before I'm off for my christmas break until Jan the 
5th. :-)

Cheers
Bob
> We now need one for Rev.
>
> /H
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>   



From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Dec 19 10:51:44 2008
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:51:44 +0100
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
In-Reply-To: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONMEKMCBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>
References: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONMEKMCBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>
Message-ID: <B0D07C14-F266-4B7A-BCEB-5B21EC36358E@major-k.de>

Hi Hugh,

> I would quote this in full, but it's better on the webPage...
>
> http://www.aegisub.net/2008/12/if-programming-languages-were-religions.html

I really didn't know that Humanism is a religion?! :-D

> We now need one for Rev.
>
> /H

Best

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Dec 19 14:09:41 2008
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:09:41 -0800
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
In-Reply-To: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONMEKMCBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>
References: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONMEKMCBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>
Message-ID: <199135075937.20081219110941@ahsoftware.net>

Hugh-

Friday, December 19, 2008, 7:43:26 AM, you wrote:

> We now need one for Rev.

...the Python description seems like a good fit...

...and when I'm fighting with it, the Perl description as well <g>

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Dec 19 14:36:22 2008
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:36:22 -0800
Subject: OT: Apple Announces Its Last Year at Macworld
In-Reply-To: <CA1A181F81EF4AA19A08D80CF6A3C9C5@GATEWAY>
References: <20081218041212.121914897EC@mail.runrev.com>
	<4903961D-00CF-4126-AC46-7124E7BA5817@siphonophore.com>
	<CA1A181F81EF4AA19A08D80CF6A3C9C5@GATEWAY>
Message-ID: <184136677265.20081219113622@ahsoftware.net>

Lynn-

Thursday, December 18, 2008, 10:33:54 AM, you wrote:

> http://www.lynnfredricks.com/2008/12/17/why-apple-said-goodbye-to-macworld-a
> nd-why-it-makes-sense/

Good writeup. I notice you stop short of pointing the finger at IDG,
and I realize there are valid business reasons why you wouldn't do
that, so I'll help out:

(disclaimer: I've never had anything good to say about IDG, and I'm
not about to start now)

My dissatisfaction with IDG probably dates to when the lackluster
MacWorld magazine bought out the much better MacUser magazine,
decimated its staff and removed all the useful content. It didn't help
matters much to see fellow developers no longer able to/interested in
shelling out big bucks for small booths at MacWorld Expo, and the
prices of those booths rising year after year. Nor having the
developers section in a separate ghetto for a few years, then finally
dropped altogether. I do blame IDG for the smaller size of trade shows
over the last few years, due to the high barrier of entry.

Personally, my dealings with IDG in trying to set up user resources
have been dismal. I'm quite happy to see Apple pull the plug. IDG has
gotten into pissing contests with Steve Jobs before, and there's only
one outcome from that.

I always go to MacWorld expo, and I'll continue to do so as long as it
exists (shouldn't be too much longer) because it's local and I can get
in free. Otherwise I wouldn't bother. And that's just as an attendee,
not as an exhibitor.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From jeff at siphonophore.com  Fri Dec 19 15:32:31 2008
From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeff Reynolds)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:32:31 -0500
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
In-Reply-To: <20081219180005.446A948A442@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20081219180005.446A948A442@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B160045F-F797-4BFB-A106-CF81D552FE0E@siphonophore.com>

I think Hypertalk/Xtalk would fall under Unitarian

i really LOLed at the last

Visual Basic would be Satanism - Except that you don't REALLY need to  
sell your soul to be a Satanist...

looking at possibility of trying to convert some old cdroms done by  
others in vb to rev and its easier to just look at functionality and  
cut and paste assets than even try to start pulling code and access db  
apart! Now i know why i whipped out mac hc versions of our products in  
one third of the time that the pc guys took with vb based versions.  
also mac got a tenth the bug reports -- even though the mac version  
was the first and one all asset testing happened in as well...

cheers,

jeff

From viktoras at ekoinf.net  Fri Dec 19 16:47:41 2008
From: viktoras at ekoinf.net (viktoras didziulis)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 23:47:41 +0200
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
In-Reply-To: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONMEKMCBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>
References: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONMEKMCBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>
Message-ID: <494C167C.8080909@ekoinf.net>

hmmmm....

Revolution is like Jehovah Witnesses. Made up of a relatively small 
albeit stable and friendly community of followers and controlled by a 
small company Revolution somehow resists the power of mainstream beliefs 
with large evil corporations behind. Although well known for its 
pacifistic attitudes, it cherishes a hope since the very establishment 
that this evil World is moving to the end, and the Revolution is going 
to dominate the New World soon. Believing the God's name has to be 
written and pronounced using rules of the English language, its 
followers read and interpret the Scripts literally. However this might 
have raised some doubts about the trustworthiness of the word about 
Revolution because of experiences caused by diverse national, linguistic 
and religious identities. The partisans of Revolution strongly believe 
that many dogmas and assumptions of mainstream religions are incorrect 
interpretations, bad habits and even superstitions. Meanwhile adherents 
of the mainstream religions usually look at revolutionists "from above". 
However the later tend to became converted after just a few days of 
"hands on" experience with Revolution.
---
sorry, I could not resist to write one more, as it was also missing from 
the original list of languages :-)
---
Assembly - the language in which the Universe has been created. Mastered 
only by the God himself. Currently known and used by ascended beings or 
inspired humans, and unfortunately, also demons and dark mags. While the 
former can do miracles with it, the dark side adherents use their 
knowledge to corrupt the World.

sincerely your
slightly inspired cafeteria christian permanently corrupted by voodoo 
practices
Viktoras

Hugh Senior wrote:
> I would quote this in full, but it's better on the webPage...
>
> http://www.aegisub.net/2008/12/if-programming-languages-were-religions.html
>
> We now need one for Rev.
>
> /H
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>   



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Dec 19 16:55:10 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:55:10 -0600
Subject: Hammering on about Paragraphs
In-Reply-To: <373474.15484.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <373474.15484.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <494C183E.4080801@hyperactivesw.com>

Richmond Mathewson wrote:
> Just to reiterate that I think it would extremely
> useful if RR were to be capable of identifying both:
> 
> 1. British indented paragraphs; this presupposes that the
> TAB key would work inside textFields.
> 
> 2. North American paragraphs [i.e. those signalled by
> a missing line].

I'm not sure what "identifying" means in this case, nor what identifies 
one method as British and the other as American. All the American books 
I've seen have indented paragraphs with no space between.

At any rate, you can use tabs in text fields to indent the first line. 
You only need to set the tabstops of the field first. But even easier, 
set the "firstIndent" property of the field. Then you don't need tabs at 
all, and in fact, you can even produce outdented paragraphs this way.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Fri Dec 19 17:01:48 2008
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (Scott Morrow)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 14:01:48 -0800
Subject: the user's name under OSX
In-Reply-To: <9D32B189-B178-48DA-A8DD-C482D598767E@mindspring.com>
References: <A774FF59-6955-43EA-87E7-6F86A4BED6BA@elementarysoftware.com>
	<9D32B189-B178-48DA-A8DD-C482D598767E@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <A1D58276-4EAC-482E-B9B1-1518A463494E@elementarysoftware.com>

Hello Gordy,
Thanks for that. I was (am!) ignorant of dscl
I'll continue looking for something (additional) that might work in  
earlier versions.

-Scott

On Dec 19, 2008, at 5:14 AM, Gordon Tillman wrote:

> Scott in 10.5 that information is stored in Directory Services.  The  
> dscl command is used to interact with that.  For example:
>
> $ dscl . -read /Users/gordy RealName
> RealName:
> Gordon Tillman
>
> (that's me!)
>
> --gordy
>
>
> On Dec 19, 2008, at 06:07, Scott Morrow wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm trying to get the user's name under OSX. I can get the  
>> environment variable
>>
>> $USER
>>
>> but this only returns the user's short name.  Any ideas for getting  
>> the full name?
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Fri Dec 19 18:00:17 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 00:00:17 +0100
Subject: Tutorials Picker and Watcher under construction
Message-ID: <DCEA0394-194D-4F82-971F-4F93215A777B@sosmartsoftware.com>

Just a quick word for all Tutorials Picker and Watcher users:

I do apologize because there are some display problems right now due  
to maintenance.
I hope to be able to fix them very shortly.
Thanks for your understanding.

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From bobs at twft.com  Fri Dec 19 20:27:22 2008
From: bobs at twft.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:27:22 -0800
Subject: Script Local Variables not working
Message-ID: <E0717BCA-C396-4293-8B33-E59DA07B3DCB@twft.com>

Hi all.

I discovered an odd thing with script local variables. If I call a  
function within a card script that uses script local variables, but I  
call it from the message box, the script local variables are not  
visible. But if I call the function from an object ON the card, then  
they ARE visible. I find that odd, because I would have expected  
"local" to refer to where the FUNCTION was, i.e. the CARD SCRIPT, not  
where the function was called from, i.e. the MESSAGE BOX.

Does anyone else find this odd? This also have given me fits when  
debugging because if while stepping through a script, I click on or  
interact with another object, say the property inspector or message  
box, and then step through the code again, when I hit a function call  
in the card script the scope somehow has become the object I clicked  
on, NOT the card anymore! One would have to be very careful not to  
interact with any objects while stepping through the code! I get  
around this by making sure I click back on the stack I am debugging  
before stepping through the code anymore.

Just a heads up.

Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM



From bvg at mac.com  Fri Dec 19 20:54:44 2008
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 02:54:44 +0100
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
In-Reply-To: <494BC2F0.70409@armbase.com>
References: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONMEKMCBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>
	<494BC2F0.70409@armbase.com>
Message-ID: <AEBC17C7-DC77-4CC9-B842-1C92ADCE0F1F@mac.com>

On 19 Dec 2008, at 16:51, Bob Hartley wrote:

> *LOLCODE* would be *Pastafarianism*

Pastafarianism is an internet meme/joke/pun related to Creationism.  
Check out the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster:
http://www.venganza.org/

LOLcode is also an internet joke, basically the attempt at making a  
programming language out of Lolspeak, which is in turn another  
internet joke. Interestingly,  in my eyes LOLcode is the closest to  
rev in that list, at least semantic wise...

Check out the examples: http://lolcode.com
Lolspeak examples: http://icanhascheezburger.com/

I know way too much about these things...
Bj?rnke

-- 

official ChatRev page:
http://bjoernke.com/runrev/chatrev.php

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://bjoernke.com/stacks/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev"



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Dec 19 22:03:55 2008
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 19:03:55 -0800
Subject: Flash + RevBrowser + Mac Problems
Message-ID: <C571A09B.3E593%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Has anyone on the list done much work with interactive Flash movies played
within RevBrowser?

I have some Flash content that displays clickable products and runs great on
Windows, but performance is terrible on OS X.  Clicks on the Flash content
are intermittently unresponsive, and it seems the only way to trigger
interactivity at all is to move the mouse outside the stack, and then back
into the browser instance.  I not sure where to start to solve this issue
because the same content/stack works as expected on Windows.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design




From coiin at rcn.com  Fri Dec 19 22:13:30 2008
From: coiin at rcn.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:13:30 -0500
Subject: Flash + RevBrowser + Mac Problems
In-Reply-To: <C571A09B.3E593%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <C571A09B.3E593%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <B3DE8107-FE1F-44F0-9FA2-893A1855E4BD@rcn.com>

Can you tell whether the important action is to just move the mouse,  
or to move it out of the window? There has been a Safari problem for  
years where you sometimes have to move the mouse for a click to  
register. It can affect plugin content, and even just html links.




From randall at randallreetz.com  Fri Dec 19 22:41:15 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Reetz)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 19:41:15 -0800
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
Message-ID: <20081220034409.MVKI26612.atlmtaow01.cingularme.com@Inbox>

I wish people would use the term xtalk when refering to this language its structure and lexicon both come intact from hypercard and smalltalk before that.  Revenue is a great integration synthesis of xtalk and a cross platform runtime engines, but the language is xtalk all the way in.  Seems only fair.  No?

-----Original Message-----
From: "viktoras didziulis" <viktoras at ekoinf.net>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: 12/19/2008 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] If programming languages were religions...

hmmmm....

Revolution is like Jehovah Witnesses. Made up of a relatively small 
albeit stable and friendly community of followers and controlled by a 
small company Revolution somehow resists the power of mainstream beliefs 
with large evil corporations behind. Although well known for its 
pacifistic attitudes, it cherishes a hope since the very establishment 
that this evil World is moving to the end, and the Revolution is going 
to dominate the New World soon. Believing the God's name has to be 
written and pronounced using rules of the English language, its 
followers read and interpret the Scripts literally. However this might 
have raised some doubts about the trustworthiness of the word about 
Revolution because of experiences caused by diverse national, linguistic 
and religious identities. The partisans of Revolution strongly believe 
that many dogmas and assumptions of mainstream religions are incorrect 
interpretations, bad habits and even superstitions. Meanwhile adherents 
of the mainstream religions usually look at revolutionists "from above". 
However the later tend to became converted after just a few days of 
"hands on" experience with Revolution.
---
sorry, I could not resist to write one more, as it was also missing from 
the original list of languages :-)
---
Assembly - the language in which the Universe has been created. Mastered 
only by the God himself. Currently known and used by ascended beings or 
inspired humans, and unfortunately, also demons and dark mags. While the 
former can do miracles with it, the dark side adherents use their 
knowledge to corrupt the World.

sincerely your
slightly inspired cafeteria christian permanently corrupted by voodoo 
practices
Viktoras

Hugh Senior wrote:
> I would quote this in full, but it's better on the webPage...
>
> http://www.aegisub.net/2008/12/if-programming-languages-were-religions.html
>
> We now need one for Rev.
>
> /H
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>   

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From randall at randallreetz.com  Fri Dec 19 23:15:55 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Reetz)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 20:15:55 -0800
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
Message-ID: <20081220041850.IDOY11530.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@Inbox>

Sorry, my phone is a random freudian generator.  I meant revolution not revenue.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Randall Reetz" <randall at randallreetz.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: 12/19/2008 7:41 PM
Subject: RE: [OT] If programming languages were religions...

I wish people would use the term xtalk when refering to this language its structure and lexicon both come intact from hypercard and smalltalk before that.  Revenue is a great integration synthesis of xtalk and a cross platform runtime engines, but the language is xtalk all the way in.  Seems only fair.  No?

-----Original Message-----
From: "viktoras didziulis" <viktoras at ekoinf.net>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: 12/19/2008 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] If programming languages were religions...

hmmmm....

Revolution is like Jehovah Witnesses. Made up of a relatively small 
albeit stable and friendly community of followers and controlled by a 
small company Revolution somehow resists the power of mainstream beliefs 
with large evil corporations behind. Although well known for its 
pacifistic attitudes, it cherishes a hope since the very establishment 
that this evil World is moving to the end, and the Revolution is going 
to dominate the New World soon. Believing the God's name has to be 
written and pronounced using rules of the English language, its 
followers read and interpret the Scripts literally. However this might 
have raised some doubts about the trustworthiness of the word about 
Revolution because of experiences caused by diverse national, linguistic 
and religious identities. The partisans of Revolution strongly believe 
that many dogmas and assumptions of mainstream religions are incorrect 
interpretations, bad habits and even superstitions. Meanwhile adherents 
of the mainstream religions usually look at revolutionists "from above". 
However the later tend to became converted after just a few days of 
"hands on" experience with Revolution.
---
sorry, I could not resist to write one more, as it was also missing from 
the original list of languages :-)
---
Assembly - the language in which the Universe has been created. Mastered 
only by the God himself. Currently known and used by ascended beings or 
inspired humans, and unfortunately, also demons and dark mags. While the 
former can do miracles with it, the dark side adherents use their 
knowledge to corrupt the World.

sincerely your
slightly inspired cafeteria christian permanently corrupted by voodoo 
practices
Viktoras

Hugh Senior wrote:
> I would quote this in full, but it's better on the webPage...
>
> http://www.aegisub.net/2008/12/if-programming-languages-were-religions.html
>
> We now need one for Rev.
>
> /H
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>   

_______________________________________________


[truncated by sender]


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Dec 20 01:19:18 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:19:18 -0800
Subject: [OT] Guy Kawasaki on AM Coast to Coast
Message-ID: <494C8E66.7010500@fourthworld.com>

Looks like AM Coast to Coast, the radio program famous for hosting 
guests who are experts on UFOs, bigfoot, and all manner of conspiracy 
theories, comes down to earth a bit Saturday night when the guest is Guy 
Kawasaki:


    Saturday, December 20

    Author and venture capitalist Guy Kawasaki will discuss
    the history of Apple Computer as well as the financial
    & engineering alchemy that revolutionaries of Silicon
    Valley use to push the frontiers of high tech.
<http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/schedule.html>


I don't know if there are many Coast to Coast fans here but I know 
there's a good number of Kawasaki fans, so find your local affiliate 
station and enjoy. :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From briany at qldlearning.com  Sat Dec 20 02:31:48 2008
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 23:31:48 -0800
Subject: Flash + RevBrowser + Mac Problems
In-Reply-To: <C571A09B.3E593%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <C571A09B.3E593%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <3BEBC551-8AAC-4762-8D28-8C86F4C678EE@qldlearning.com>

Scott,

Two quick thoughts:

1) Have you tried this outside of Rev on both platforms to see if it's  
a RevBrowser issue versus browser problem?

2) You might try playing with the "wmode" parameter for embedding your  
Flash in HTML. This can control whether Flash content gets its own  
window to render in, or draws directly into the browser. The basic  
values are "window", "opaque" or "transparent". Generally "window"  
gives the best performance because it creates its own window and  
doesn't have to meld itself in with the rest of the web page;  
however... if you are having focus issues it might be worth trying  
opaque. Maybe having Rev + RevBrowser + Flash all glued together in 3  
windows (I believe RevBrowser uses its own window) is causing some  
sort of window juggling issues.

3) The only other thing I can recommend is to simply look at how you  
might optimize the Flash project itself. Can you reduce the frame rate  
w/o hurting the user experience? Can you cut down the number of  
animations or size of graphics? Can you take advantage of any of the  
Bitmap methods in AS3 (apparently these really help in games)?

FWIW, I've heard Flash people groan over Mac performance in general,  
but at the same time my Mac seems to hold up pretty well against  
similar PCs for the stuff I do.

HTH

> Has anyone on the list done much work with interactive Flash movies  
> played
> within RevBrowser?
>
> I have some Flash content that displays clickable products and runs  
> great on
> Windows, but performance is terrible on OS X.  Clicks on the Flash  
> content
> are intermittently unresponsive, and it seems the only way to trigger
> interactivity at all is to move the mouse outside the stack, and  
> then back
> into the browser instance.  I not sure where to start to solve this  
> issue
> because the same content/stack works as expected on Windows.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design





From geradamas at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 20 05:43:19 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 02:43:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
Message-ID: <314260.97082.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


I see Runtime Revolution as, in some way, resembling Hinduism:

A few core beliefs onto which many individual users and groups 
have grafted extraneous beliefs that integrate with the core 
ones to a lesser or greater extent.

Metacard is Advaita monism, having come out of Hypercard 
(the Vedic religion); Supercard ties up with Jainism 
(denying links with the mother religion). 
HyperStudio and HyperNext resemble some of the cults cooked up by 
misinformed westerners in that they superficially resemble
Hinduism, but underneath they are something quite different 
(and, from my point of view, second-class goods). 
Runtime Revolution ( Dvaita and/or Vishishtadvaita ) 
can now be used with a number of GUIs: 
Saivism, Vaisnavism and Smarta Brahmanism.

This comparison is in no way to be taken to denigrate Hinduism;
it could, however, be taken as praise for Runtime Revolution :)

And, inevitably perhaps, the most sacred word (the bija mantra)
of Runtime Revolution has to be 'ROM'.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

PS. And if you think that is bad ask for my metaphor
using Christianity!
____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 20 06:08:02 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 03:08:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hammering on about Paragraphs
Message-ID: <426899.23581.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

JLG wrote:

"I'm not sure what "identifying" means in this case, nor what identifies 
one method as British and the other as American. All the American books 
I've seen have indented paragraphs with no space between."

-----------------------------------------------------------
RANT WARNING
-----------------------------------------------------------

That's odd;  when I was at Southern Illinois University at Carbondale
I was told by several professors (I use the small 'p' deliberately) that
Indented paragraphs were 'British' and unacceptable. I was also asked by 
one "professor" (of Old English, no less) why I couldn't spell English
correctly! I remember on that day I hopped in the car and went out and sat
with a friend of mine called Cletis Adams on the bench in front of his
trailer and had a look at his soya beans: much nicer and less
complicated sort of bloke than all 'them perfessers'. Oddly enough,
he never objected or commented on my English!

Mind you, I had a real "run-in" with 2 of the 3 members of my MA thesis
committee who objected to my 'British' spelling. However a quick perusal
of the Linguistic Society of America style manual (with which they were
berating me) stated that 'any form of English was acceptable'. Needless
to say, being the charming chap I am, I then wrote them a letter in
Doric Scots (as the Linguistic Society of America defines Scots as a
dialect of English rather than a separate language) telling them a few
facts: after that they seemed to be content with my 'British' spelling.

Certainly, I don't really care whether people want to adhere to North
American, Australian or 'British' English as long as understanding is not 
blocked (must keep hoovering the carpet!!!!).

-----------------------------------------------------------------
RANT ENDING
-----------------------------------------------------------------

By 'identify' I will just quote from Bruce W. perry "Applescript in a Nutshell", O'Reilly, 2001:

page 426;

"paragraph
    an attribute run or chunk of text could contain one or more 
    paragraphs, as is (count paragraphs of attribute run 1 of text
    of document 1). see the paragraph class."

now in Runtime Revolution one can do this:

put the number of words in fld "fX"

but one cannot do this:

put the number of paragraphs in fld "fX"

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From lists at futilism.com  Sat Dec 20 06:20:35 2008
From: lists at futilism.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:20:35 +0000
Subject: the user's name under OSX
In-Reply-To: <A1D58276-4EAC-482E-B9B1-1518A463494E@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <A774FF59-6955-43EA-87E7-6F86A4BED6BA@elementarysoftware.com>
	<9D32B189-B178-48DA-A8DD-C482D598767E@mindspring.com>
	<A1D58276-4EAC-482E-B9B1-1518A463494E@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <D3E8B14A-2FB9-4BAC-9710-D21F670E9B23@futilism.com>

Scott - I didn't know about dscl either, but it seems to work here on  
10.4.11 as well.

Best,

Mark

On 19 Dec 2008, at 22:01, Scott Morrow wrote:

> Hello Gordy,
> Thanks for that. I was (am!) ignorant of dscl
> I'll continue looking for something (additional) that might work in  
> earlier versions.
>
> -Scott
>
> On Dec 19, 2008, at 5:14 AM, Gordon Tillman wrote:
>
>> Scott in 10.5 that information is stored in Directory Services.   
>> The dscl command is used to interact with that.  For example:
>>
>> $ dscl . -read /Users/gordy RealName
>> RealName:
>> Gordon Tillman
>>
>> (that's me!)
>>
>> --gordy
>>
>>
>> On Dec 19, 2008, at 06:07, Scott Morrow wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm trying to get the user's name under OSX. I can get the  
>>> environment variable
>>>
>>> $USER
>>>
>>> but this only returns the user's short name.  Any ideas for  
>>> getting the full name?
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dave.cragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Sat Dec 20 06:53:55 2008
From: dave.cragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:53:55 +0000
Subject: Hammering on about Paragraphs
In-Reply-To: <426899.23581.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <426899.23581.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C15E2D6D-8002-4C4B-86E8-FF16A1B66A3A@lacscentre.co.uk>

On 20 Dec 2008, at 11:08, Richmond Mathewson ranted about some  
professors:

Yet Richmond, despite your contempt for one professor who taught you  
about paragraphs, you repeat what he taught you as fact. What do you  
think that tells us? A quick look at various pieces of writing will  
show that both indented and block paragraphs are used in both  
countries in much the same way.

I guess if Jacque were like yourself, she might conclude the  
traditional Scottish way to say thanks for some help is to offer a  
rant about the inadequacies of educational establishments.

Cheers
Dave
(Sent after counting to 10)




From bvg at mac.com  Sat Dec 20 07:47:47 2008
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:47:47 +0100
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
In-Reply-To: <20081220034409.MVKI26612.atlmtaow01.cingularme.com@Inbox>
References: <20081220034409.MVKI26612.atlmtaow01.cingularme.com@Inbox>
Message-ID: <008A5E34-83C0-4AD3-ABDF-75F44F948119@mac.com>


On 20 Dec 2008, at 04:41, Randall Reetz wrote:

> I wish people would use the term xtalk when refering to this  
> language its structure and lexicon both come intact from hypercard  
> and smalltalk before that.  Revenue is a great integration synthesis  
> of xtalk and a cross platform runtime engines, but the language is  
> xtalk all the way in.  Seems only fair.  No?

No. Time for car analogies (Noooo!!!):

If someone comes to the car salesman, and says "I'd want to buy a  
Lexus". Would you argue he'd be better off to say "I'd want to buy any  
car"?

Xtalk is a loose description of  types of languages, which includes  
hypercard as well as Rev. Of course the analogy will break down  
quickly if you ask 10 xtalk followers whether applescript is an xtalk  
language or not.

Describing stuff is always hard, especially with the name trinity of  
RunRev marketing, but using xtalk for just one language will probably  
garner you some internet hate :)

Have Fun
Bj?rnke
-- 

official ChatRev page:
http://bjoernke.com/runrev/chatrev.php

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://bjoernke.com/stacks/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev"



From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Sat Dec 20 09:27:38 2008
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (Scott Morrow)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 06:27:38 -0800
Subject: the user's name under OSX
In-Reply-To: <D3E8B14A-2FB9-4BAC-9710-D21F670E9B23@futilism.com>
References: <A774FF59-6955-43EA-87E7-6F86A4BED6BA@elementarysoftware.com>
	<9D32B189-B178-48DA-A8DD-C482D598767E@mindspring.com>
	<A1D58276-4EAC-482E-B9B1-1518A463494E@elementarysoftware.com>
	<D3E8B14A-2FB9-4BAC-9710-D21F670E9B23@futilism.com>
Message-ID: <C9196BC9-4DAD-401C-BCD0-F489A1ACDED8@elementarysoftware.com>

Hello Mark,
Good to know.  I was trying to populate the "Name:" field of a fake  
administrative password query dialog.  I've since gone a different  
route and used an "official" Apple dialog (or "dialogue" for some)  
that takes care of this for me. However, I suspect I may yet have need  
of this again sometime.
-Scott

On Dec 20, 2008, at 3:20 AM, Mark Smith wrote:

> Scott - I didn't know about dscl either, but it seems to work here  
> on 10.4.11 as well.
>
> Best,
>
> Mark
>
> On 19 Dec 2008, at 22:01, Scott Morrow wrote:
>
>> Hello Gordy,
>> Thanks for that. I was (am!) ignorant of dscl
>> I'll continue looking for something (additional) that might work in  
>> earlier versions.
>>
>> -Scott
>>
>> On Dec 19, 2008, at 5:14 AM, Gordon Tillman wrote:
>>
>>> Scott in 10.5 that information is stored in Directory Services.   
>>> The dscl command is used to interact with that.  For example:
>>>
>>> $ dscl . -read /Users/gordy RealName
>>> RealName:
>>> Gordon Tillman
>>>
>>> (that's me!)
>>>
>>> --gordy
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 19, 2008, at 06:07, Scott Morrow wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm trying to get the user's name under OSX. I can get the  
>>>> environment variable
>>>>
>>>> $USER
>>>>
>>>> but this only returns the user's short name.  Any ideas for  
>>>> getting the full name?
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From geradamas at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 20 09:30:59 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 06:30:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hammering on about Paragraphs
Message-ID: <901331.50969.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

. . . Traditional Scottish Rants . . .

Well . . . I did warn you with 'barriers'.

------------------------------------------------
DEFENSIVE SECTION FOLLOWS
------------------------------------------------

I am not trying to rant about the inadequacies of educational establishments as a way of Thanking Jacque for her help:

Her point about paragraphs was well taken. Also, as far as
I am aware Jacque is not on either the Linguistics or English
faculty at SIUC.

What I did point out was that in Southern Illinois (even if nowhere else)
there was a rather narrow definition of what constitutes good English.

My experience of Professors, Readers, Senior Lecturers and Lecturers
elsewhere is that they tend to have a broad, expansive, inclusive
view of things. Certainly when I worked at the University of
St Andrews the members of the Foreign Languages Department (with who I
had considerable contact as my wife did her PhD with them) did not
upset by different types of spelling and syntax (let alone grammar)
within English.

Of course one could point out that St Andrews is a top-class University,
while SIUC is not quite "up there". Having said that, Richard Rorty (NOT
in the Linguistics or the English Dept) is there !!!!!!!

---------------------------------------------------
END OF DEFENSIVE SECTION
---------------------------------------------------

HOWEVER; if one is to introduce a PARAGRAPHS term into
Runtime Revolution, surely, one first has to decide what constitutes a paragraph. There seem to be 2 types of ways of marking paragraphs
prevalent in English: whether they are English, 'British',
North American, or Ruritanian is, really, beside the point.

Are we to detect paragraph breaks merely on the basis of TabKeyDowns
or something else. Certainly TABS will only detect the indented type
of paragraph.

Of course, one could be pedantic and insist on paragraphs being only 
of one type. However, that would be useless if one wanted to write
a general text analysis tool that could cope with whatever text was 
fed into it.

---------------------------------------------------
WEAKLY HUMOUROUS SECTION STARTS
---------------------------------------------------

Some people might realise, if they stopped and thought for
a moment that anybody who sections his/her use-list postings
with odd lines like this ----------------------
might be making gentle fun of him/her/itself. And references to
terms that mean different things in different dialects of English
(vacuum cleaners - geddit ?) might act as a further signal to anybody
but the most blinkered among the native speakers.

---------------------------------------------------
END OF WEAKLY HUMOUROUS SECTION
---------------------------------------------------

I, for one, am gently unwinding at the end of an extremely
heavy and stressful year. I hope that everybody who reads this
is doing likewise. I hope that everyone has a peaceful, relaxing
and reflective end to the year, regardless of their religious
affiliation or lack thereof.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Sat Dec 20 09:48:46 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 09:48:46 -0500
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
In-Reply-To: <314260.97082.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <314260.97082.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BF898B10-7557-4E66-9D70-8085AD446374@mac.com>

OK, I'll bite. What is your Christian metaphor?


Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html





On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:43 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> PS. And if you think that is bad ask for my metaphor
> using Christianity!



From bvg at mac.com  Sat Dec 20 10:17:27 2008
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:17:27 +0100
Subject: Hammering on about Paragraphs
In-Reply-To: <901331.50969.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <901331.50969.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5ABA220F-C05E-4AF4-AD22-3D8492D379E1@mac.com>

In my view, the problem with paragraphs is, that it's a style, not a  
chunk. Therefore everyone can easily claim to do it right, and that  
others do it wrongly.

As for paragraph support within Rev: As Paragraphs are styled and not  
chunks, they should be supported within Fields. And they are indeed,  
using the "FirstIntent" property, every line turns into it's own  
paragraph, as it is usual in text editors. To get the sub-lines of  
these paragraphs, one can use the "formattedText".

Of course there's also a paragraph break char in Unicode, but I  
haven't tested it's effect on Rev fields.

Have Fun
Bj?rnke
-- 

official ChatRev page:
http://bjoernke.com/runrev/chatrev.php

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://bjoernke.com/stacks/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev"



From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Sat Dec 20 10:45:37 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 10:45:37 -0500
Subject: Hammering on about Paragraphs
In-Reply-To: <5ABA220F-C05E-4AF4-AD22-3D8492D379E1@mac.com>
References: <901331.50969.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<5ABA220F-C05E-4AF4-AD22-3D8492D379E1@mac.com>
Message-ID: <FBDF5EB2-13A3-4C2D-A3A8-68D98AC2F916@mac.com>

Also, you can get the htmlText and count <p> to get the number of  
paragraphs in a field.

As for formatting you can insert a  &#9;  after each <p> tag to insert  
an indent.

Just a thought.

Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html





On Dec 20, 2008, at 10:17 AM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:

> In my view, the problem with paragraphs is, that it's a style, not a  
> chunk. Therefore everyone can easily claim to do it right, and that  
> others do it wrongly.
>
> As for paragraph support within Rev: As Paragraphs are styled and  
> not chunks, they should be supported within Fields. And they are  
> indeed, using the "FirstIntent" property, every line turns into it's  
> own paragraph, as it is usual in text editors. To get the sub-lines  
> of these paragraphs, one can use the "formattedText".
>
> Of course there's also a paragraph break char in Unicode, but I  
> haven't tested it's effect on Rev fields.
>
> Have Fun
> Bj?rnke
> -- 
>
> official ChatRev page:
> http://bjoernke.com/runrev/chatrev.php
>
> Chat with other RunRev developers:
> go stack URL "http://bjoernke.com/stacks/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev"
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Sat Dec 20 11:05:02 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 08:05:02 -0800
Subject: [OT] Guy Kawasaki on AM Coast to Coast
In-Reply-To: <494C8E66.7010500@fourthworld.com>
References: <494C8E66.7010500@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c572c7a9a517@[192.168.1.105]>

Guy Kawasaki and aliens!  I'll bet he's probably not going to talk 
about Apple that much...

the weekend? That means Art Bell himself might be doing the show..... 
I hope so.

>Looks like AM Coast to Coast, the radio program famous for hosting 
>guests who are experts on UFOs, bigfoot, and all manner of 
>conspiracy theories, comes down to earth a bit Saturday night when 
>the guest is Guy Kawasaki:
>
>    Saturday, December 20

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -





From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Sat Dec 20 11:07:05 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 08:07:05 -0800
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
In-Reply-To: <314260.97082.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <314260.97082.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c572c888d97a@[192.168.1.105]>

This is the best Richmond post ever!


>I see Runtime Revolution as, in some way, resembling Hinduism:
>
>
>sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -





From geradamas at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 20 11:44:23 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 08:44:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
Message-ID: <334830.28000.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thomas McGrath III wrote:

"OK, I'll bite. What is your Christian metaphor?"

And this is where I have to admit that I don't really have a Christian metaphor; although with a bit of thought I could put one together.

Just re-reading "A History of Heresy" (David Christie-Murray, Oxford, 1989 - ISBN 0-19-285210-8), which very much put me in mind of Hypercard and
so on. Mind you the inventor of SERF might get a bit cheesed-off if
I describe him as the xTalk equivalent of Valentinus! Also, Hinduism has
a huge advantage over Christianity insofar as one can generally talk
about the schools of thought that subsist within that wonderful system
without having to get too personal (Hmm, well up to a point). In
Christianity most developments after the initial East-West schism (no,
I don't mean the Orthodox-Roman split) seem very much connected with
individuals who people still get considerably worked-up about.

There is, also, within Christianity nothing quite like the Monist/Semi-Monist/Dualist thing that bedevils Hinduism. It should, perhaps, be
pointed out here that Hinduism is, generally, more tolerant than
Christianity insofar as the concept of Heresy doesn't really exist,
and, as far as I am aware, no Hindu has been killed for having 
differing beliefs from that of another Hindu.

Therefore, I believe that the metaphor of Runtime Revolution as a
sort of Hinduism holds up reasonably well, while an equivalent
metaphor of Runtime Revolution as a sort of Christianity would not.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From mcgrath3 at mac.com  Sat Dec 20 11:49:34 2008
From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:49:34 -0500
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
In-Reply-To: <334830.28000.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <334830.28000.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <69DFA235-6386-488E-832C-96A9997C3BEE@mac.com>

Ok, this seems reasonable. Still I really liked the Hinduism metaphor.  
It is a classic.

Thanks

Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
3mcgrath at comcast.net

iTunes Library Suite - libITS
Information and download can be found on this page:
http://www.lazyriversoftware.com/RevOne.html





On Dec 20, 2008, at 11:44 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

>
> Therefore, I believe that the metaphor of Runtime Revolution as a
> sort of Hinduism holds up reasonably well, while an equivalent
> metaphor of Runtime Revolution as a sort of Christianity would not.
>
> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Dec 20 12:29:22 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 09:29:22 -0800
Subject: Hammering on about Paragraphs
Message-ID: <494D2B72.7010000@fourthworld.com>

Thomas McGrath III wrote:
> As for formatting you can insert a  &#9;  after each <p> tag to insert  
> an indent.

See also the firstIndent field property in the Rev dictionary:


   Use the firstIndent property to created indented paragraphs.

   Value:
   The firstIndent of a field is an integer.

   By default, the firstIndent property of newly created fields
   is set to zero.

   Comments:
   The first line of each paragraph is left-indented the specified
   number of pixels. If the firstIndent is zero, the field's
   paragraphs are not indented. If the firstIndent is negative,
   the first line of each paragraph is outdented the specified
   number of pixels, creating a hanging indent. (It may be
   necessary to increase the field's leftMargin property to
   accommodate the hanging indent.)


--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Dec 20 13:08:11 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 12:08:11 -0600
Subject: Hammering on about Paragraphs
In-Reply-To: <901331.50969.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <901331.50969.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <494D348B.3090201@hyperactivesw.com>

Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> What I did point out was that in Southern Illinois (even if nowhere else)
> there was a rather narrow definition of what constitutes good English.

Easily resolved by looking at some American-printed books on Amazon, for 
example. I'm surprised this professor was so uninformed.

> Are we to detect paragraph breaks merely on the basis of TabKeyDowns
> or something else. Certainly TABS will only detect the indented type
> of paragraph.

In Revolution, paragraphs are equivalent to "lines". Just get the number 
of lines in a field and you will have the number of paragraphs. In the 
case where there are empty lines between paragraphs, you can filter the 
content "without empty" and then get the number of lines of the filtered 
  content, if that's what you need.

In rare cases, such as when importing certain text documents, there may 
be a return character at the end of every visible line; these are "hard 
wrapped" lines that don't represent true paragraphs. If the text has 
empty lines between actual, visual paragraphs, you can do some fairly 
simple replacements to remove the hard line endings. If the text does 
not have empty lines between visual paragraphs, it's a bigger challenge. 
I've written a best-guess algorithm to deal with that situation for one 
of my stacks. It isn't perfect.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 20 14:35:35 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:35:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hammering on about Paragraphs
Message-ID: <400658.69738.qm@web37501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

JLG wrote:

"I'm surprised this professor was so uninformed."

Gosh!

--------------------------------------------------
IT'S RANT TIME AGAIN
--------------------------------------------------

I have a bachelor's degree from a top University (Durham, England),
an M.A. from SIUC, and an MSc from a place in my own country (Scotland) 
which was set up by Tony Blair and his merry men when they determined
that 80% of school leavers should go to 'University'. 
Apart from the obvious jokes about a downward slide and my 
getting a PhD from a telephone booth:

While at 'that place' I had to attend lectures on Visual Basic 5 where the
teacher was trying to teach concepts my Maths teacher taught me when
I was 14 (1976) with only the benefit of a chalkboard and one of those
horrible machines where you had to tie your fingers in knots to punch
Hollerith cards. She got annoyed because I spent most of the lectures
sitting at the back working out program schemata on paper and doing
the odd calculation with my slide-rule. This lecturer was just about the
same age as me; she had a BSc from the Open University (England) and
an 'in-house' MSc from 'that place', yet she:

failed to explain what a FOR . . . NEXT loop was [well, unless
all the other students on the MSc course were incredibly stupid - as
about 90% of them asked here to explain it again],

didn't know what my slide-rule was.

Having previously worked, and lectured (in Phonetics) at the University
of St Andrews I was blown away by 'that place'.

I bought a supplement to a computer magazine called something 
like "Microsoft Excel for Baboons"; and found it extremely useful
as the lecturers who were teaching us how to use Excel [this was,
after all, for an MSc in IT and computing] made little or no sense
to me or many of my fellow students.

Quite a few students who had come over to get MSc's from India told
me that they had also learned what was being peddled as MSc stuff in
their first year in High School (i.e. about 2 years younger than when
I learnt it). Most of them went back home to India after the first term.

--------------------------------------
One of the most classic moments was when I got so cheesed-off with
VB that I duplicated all the Homework exercises in Runtime Revolution:
then was told that VB 5 was superior because it was "Windows native" as
if that justified everything.

-----------------------------------------
RANT ENDED
-----------------------------------------

And the lesson is: Not all Educational Institutions are
created equal!

and further to that: some Universities have "bad" departments that
milk individuals and grant-aiding bodies for socially approved courses
as a way of financing a few high-profile courses that will attract
kudos to the institution.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com  Sat Dec 20 15:52:13 2008
From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 12:52:13 -0800
Subject: OT: Apple Announces Its Last Year at Macworld
In-Reply-To: <184136677265.20081219113622@ahsoftware.net>
References: <20081218041212.121914897EC@mail.runrev.com><4903961D-00CF-4126-AC46-7124E7BA5817@siphonophore.com><CA1A181F81EF4AA19A08D80CF6A3C9C5@GATEWAY>
	<184136677265.20081219113622@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <38C5BA4C578446EF850BD83E4527FAE4@GATEWAY>

> My dissatisfaction with IDG probably dates to when the 
> lackluster MacWorld magazine bought out the much better 
> MacUser magazine, decimated its staff and removed all the 
> useful content. It didn't help matters much to see fellow 
> developers no longer able to/interested in shelling out big 
> bucks for small booths at MacWorld Expo, and the prices of 
> those booths rising year after year. Nor having the 
> developers section in a separate ghetto for a few years, then 
> finally dropped altogether. I do blame IDG for the smaller 
> size of trade shows over the last few years, due to the high 
> barrier of entry.

Yes...the two 'zines I miss are MacUser and MacWeek. MacWeek was the
industry zine, equivalent to the current 'eweek' which previously was
PCWeek.

Prices are just nuts for shows. Usually a 10x10 space is going to run you
over $5K, and that's for an empty spot. I helped put together a showing at a
MacWorld about five years ago, and just internet access for the three odd
days cost $1,000! And unless your booth can be assembled by a small pygmy
child, you were told you had to use expensive union labor (at the time, at
about $70-80 an hour).


> Personally, my dealings with IDG in trying to set up user 
> resources have been dismal. I'm quite happy to see Apple pull 
> the plug. IDG has gotten into pissing contests with Steve 
> Jobs before, and there's only one outcome from that.

I made some effort to try to get us a Birds of a Feather set up, but they
provide no feedback until the very last minute with a "sorry, can't do it"
message.

I had several clients back around '96-98 that actually made more than enough
money on the floor of Macworld for it to be profitable - covering all
transport, set up, etc. There used to be a lot of really big booths then,
not just ones belonging to Apple/Adobe/Microsoft.

There seems to come a time where, within an industry, everyone knows about
what the margins are for everyone else. Then the "gatekeepers" begin to
raise their rates, up to the point where its no longer clear if the effort
is even remotely worth doing.

Somehow Mark, I just knew you would reply to my post - I was just thinking
last night "they ought to can Apple's keynote this year and get Mark to do
it" :-) Then maybe it would get back to being about the Mac and not the
forthcoming year's multicolored iPod accessories...

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 



From sundown at pacifier.com  Sat Dec 20 20:01:30 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:01:30 -0800
Subject: latest beta & GLx2
Message-ID: <C6AFB307-FA4F-40E5-BEBA-D904BD69D866@pacifier.com>

I believe Revolution management needs to do some explaining.  I am a  
licensed
user of the current version of enterprise.  With this you have the  
list for developers
who use Enterprise and like this list you can post messages in the  
same way.

About a month ago I posted a message on that list and it was held  
back saying
only list members can post.  I have signed up for this list as  
required to access
it and complained about the last message I posted.

Now I am still not being provided the same benefits as other  
Enterprise users
which was advertised as part of the purchase.

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------------------
Your mail to 'improve-revolution' with the subject

     latest beta & GLx2

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

     Post by non-member to a members-only list

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.  If you would like to cancel
this posting, please visit the following URL:

     http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/confirm/improve-revolution/ 
f9c3614dfd9a778bb266f3ce70d7a3a61a44b4df

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------------------

I am posting this here since it obviously didn't work to complain  
before.

-=>JB<=-


From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Sat Dec 20 20:04:15 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:04:15 -0800
Subject: latest beta & GLx2
In-Reply-To: <C6AFB307-FA4F-40E5-BEBA-D904BD69D866@pacifier.com>
References: <C6AFB307-FA4F-40E5-BEBA-D904BD69D866@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c57346384ee1@[192.168.1.105]>

Wrong email address for you is on record in the Rev database. Nothing 
personal. It's a bot. Ask Heather to fix it.

>I believe Revolution management needs to do some explaining.  I am a licensed
>user of the current version of enterprise.  With this you have the 
>list for developers
>who use Enterprise and like this list you can post messages in the same way.
>
>About a month ago I posted a message on that list and it was held back saying
>only list members can post.  I have signed up for this list as 
>required to access
>it and complained about the last message I posted.
>
>Now I am still not being provided the same benefits as other Enterprise users
>which was advertised as part of the purchase.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Your mail to 'improve-revolution' with the subject
>
>     latest beta & GLx2
>
>Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
>
>The reason it is being held:
>
>     Post by non-member to a members-only list
>
>Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
>notification of the moderator's decision.  If you would like to cancel
>this posting, please visit the following URL:
>
> 
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/confirm/improve-revolution/f9c3614dfd9a778bb266f3ce70d7a3a61a44b4df
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>I am posting this here since it obviously didn't work to complain before.
>
>-=>JB<=-

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -





From sundown at pacifier.com  Sat Dec 20 20:05:50 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:05:50 -0800
Subject: post about GLx2 
Message-ID: <5DC02887-FF52-4EEF-9889-4A2DA9AF6C6C@pacifier.com>

Here is the message I was trying to post about GLx2 and tthe latest  
Rev beta.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I just updated to the latest Rev beta.  I use GLx2 script editor and  
it will not
work with the latest Rev beta on and OS X 10.4.11.  I updated to the  
latest
version of GLx2 and the latest beta of GLx2 but it still will  not work.

-=>JB<=-



From sundown at pacifier.com  Sat Dec 20 20:08:00 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:08:00 -0800
Subject: latest beta & GLx2
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c57346384ee1@[192.168.1.105]>
References: <C6AFB307-FA4F-40E5-BEBA-D904BD69D866@pacifier.com>
	<p06240802c57346384ee1@[192.168.1.105]>
Message-ID: <B8CA7D92-A9EA-4E20-85D4-163C7A549846@pacifier.com>

I asked the last time and this is another way of asking & informing  
since
the previous method did not work for over a month now.

-=>JB<=-


On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:04 PM, Stephen Barncard wrote:

> Wrong email address for you is on record in the Rev database.  
> Nothing personal. It's a bot. Ask Heather to fix it.
>
>> I believe Revolution management needs to do some explaining.  I am  
>> a licensed
>> user of the current version of enterprise.  With this you have the  
>> list for developers
>> who use Enterprise and like this list you can post messages in the  
>> same way.
>>
>> About a month ago I posted a message on that list and it was held  
>> back saying
>> only list members can post.  I have signed up for this list as  
>> required to access
>> it and complained about the last message I posted.
>>
>> Now I am still not being provided the same benefits as other  
>> Enterprise users
>> which was advertised as part of the purchase.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> -----------------------
>> Your mail to 'improve-revolution' with the subject
>>
>>     latest beta & GLx2
>>
>> Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
>>
>> The reason it is being held:
>>
>>     Post by non-member to a members-only list
>>
>> Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
>> notification of the moderator's decision.  If you would like to  
>> cancel
>> this posting, please visit the following URL:
>>
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/confirm/improve-revolution/ 
>> f9c3614dfd9a778bb266f3ce70d7a3a61a44b4df
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> -----------------------
>>
>> I am posting this here since it obviously didn't work to complain  
>> before.
>>
>> -=>JB<=-
>
> -- 
>
>
> stephen barncard
> s a n  f r a n c i s c o
> - - -  - - - - - - - - -
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From bvg at mac.com  Sat Dec 20 20:55:40 2008
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 02:55:40 +0100
Subject: latest beta & GLx2
In-Reply-To: <C6AFB307-FA4F-40E5-BEBA-D904BD69D866@pacifier.com>
References: <C6AFB307-FA4F-40E5-BEBA-D904BD69D866@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <B4BA7521-2F13-48DE-A316-BD383CD2DF74@mac.com>


On 21 Dec 2008, at 02:01, -= JB =- wrote:

> Now I am still not being provided the same benefits as other  
> Enterprise users
> which was advertised as part of the purchase.

You have a support issue. If there's any problem at all, or beef you  
got with Rev, then always mail support.

This list is foremost a customer community forum. It's rarely looked  
at by any RunRev staffers, and normally only when they get noticed by  
comunity members that things aren't as smooth as usual. Now guess how  
comunity members do that? By mailing to support: support at runrev.com

Remember to have fun
Bj?rnke

-- 

official ChatRev page:
http://bjoernke.com/runrev/chatrev.php

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://bjoernke.com/stacks/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev"



From sundown at pacifier.com  Sat Dec 20 21:04:47 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:04:47 -0800
Subject: latest beta & GLx2
In-Reply-To: <B4BA7521-2F13-48DE-A316-BD383CD2DF74@mac.com>
References: <C6AFB307-FA4F-40E5-BEBA-D904BD69D866@pacifier.com>
	<B4BA7521-2F13-48DE-A316-BD383CD2DF74@mac.com>
Message-ID: <56017166-AD2D-47B7-88B9-2D9B175C4DC0@pacifier.com>

I have complained to support about problems with my Enterprise  
capabilities since
last February.  At what point in your life do you decide that method  
does not work?

-=>JB<=-


On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:55 PM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:

>
> On 21 Dec 2008, at 02:01, -= JB =- wrote:
>
>> Now I am still not being provided the same benefits as other  
>> Enterprise users
>> which was advertised as part of the purchase.
>
> You have a support issue. If there's any problem at all, or beef  
> you got with Rev, then always mail support.
>
> This list is foremost a customer community forum. It's rarely  
> looked at by any RunRev staffers, and normally only when they get  
> noticed by comunity members that things aren't as smooth as usual.  
> Now guess how comunity members do that? By mailing to support:  
> support at runrev.com
>
> Remember to have fun
> Bj?rnke
>
> -- 
>
> official ChatRev page:
> http://bjoernke.com/runrev/chatrev.php
>
> Chat with other RunRev developers:
> go stack URL "http://bjoernke.com/stacks/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev"
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From sundown at pacifier.com  Sat Dec 20 21:14:48 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:14:48 -0800
Subject: latest beta & GLx2
In-Reply-To: <B4BA7521-2F13-48DE-A316-BD383CD2DF74@mac.com>
References: <C6AFB307-FA4F-40E5-BEBA-D904BD69D866@pacifier.com>
	<B4BA7521-2F13-48DE-A316-BD383CD2DF74@mac.com>
Message-ID: <C09927B0-8B43-43E8-A960-198FC400154D@pacifier.com>


On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:55 PM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:


> Remember to have fun
> Bj?rnke
>
> -- 

Remember  "Change has come to America"
and if they get enough change they might have a dollar.

-=>JB<=-

From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 20 21:17:57 2008
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Petrides, M.D. Marian)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:17:57 -0600
Subject: latest beta & GLx2
In-Reply-To: <56017166-AD2D-47B7-88B9-2D9B175C4DC0@pacifier.com>
References: <C6AFB307-FA4F-40E5-BEBA-D904BD69D866@pacifier.com>
	<B4BA7521-2F13-48DE-A316-BD383CD2DF74@mac.com>
	<56017166-AD2D-47B7-88B9-2D9B175C4DC0@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <EE764728-4906-47AF-9F0A-BBD6E336C684@earthlink.net>

That's odd.  I've never had a problem getting a response from support-- 
might take a few hours (time zone, ya know) but Heather is very good  
about responding.  Did you try resending your query?


On Dec 20, 2008, at 8:04 PM, -= JB =- wrote:

> I have complained to support about problems with my Enterprise  
> capabilities since
> last February.  At what point in your life do you decide that method  
> does not work?
>
> -=>JB<=-
>
>
> On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:55 PM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:
>
>>
>> On 21 Dec 2008, at 02:01, -= JB =- wrote:
>>
>>> Now I am still not being provided the same benefits as other  
>>> Enterprise users
>>> which was advertised as part of the purchase.
>>
>> You have a support issue. If there's any problem at all, or beef  
>> you got with Rev, then always mail support.
>>
>> This list is foremost a customer community forum. It's rarely  
>> looked at by any RunRev staffers, and normally only when they get  
>> noticed by comunity members that things aren't as smooth as usual.  
>> Now guess how comunity members do that? By mailing to support: support at runrev.com
>>
>> Remember to have fun
>> Bj?rnke
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> official ChatRev page:
>> http://bjoernke.com/runrev/chatrev.php
>>
>> Chat with other RunRev developers:
>> go stack URL "http://bjoernke.com/stacks/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev"
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From sundown at pacifier.com  Sat Dec 20 21:24:36 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:24:36 -0800
Subject: latest beta & GLx2
In-Reply-To: <EE764728-4906-47AF-9F0A-BBD6E336C684@earthlink.net>
References: <C6AFB307-FA4F-40E5-BEBA-D904BD69D866@pacifier.com>
	<B4BA7521-2F13-48DE-A316-BD383CD2DF74@mac.com>
	<56017166-AD2D-47B7-88B9-2D9B175C4DC0@pacifier.com>
	<EE764728-4906-47AF-9F0A-BBD6E336C684@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <EA7B8F0C-BF18-4559-A7CC-5442046AF791@pacifier.com>

Heather has been good and fixed things a number of times and then  
something
else happens.  My complaints are not with Heather since she has fixed  
my level
of access numerous times.

-=>JB<=-



On Dec 20, 2008, at 6:17 PM, Petrides, M.D. Marian wrote:

> That's odd.  I've never had a problem getting a response from  
> support--might take a few hours (time zone, ya know) but Heather is  
> very good about responding.  Did you try resending your query?
>
>
> On Dec 20, 2008, at 8:04 PM, -= JB =- wrote:
>
>> I have complained to support about problems with my Enterprise  
>> capabilities since
>> last February.  At what point in your life do you decide that  
>> method does not work?
>>
>> -=>JB<=-
>>
>>
>> On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:55 PM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 21 Dec 2008, at 02:01, -= JB =- wrote:
>>>
>>>> Now I am still not being provided the same benefits as other  
>>>> Enterprise users
>>>> which was advertised as part of the purchase.
>>>
>>> You have a support issue. If there's any problem at all, or beef  
>>> you got with Rev, then always mail support.
>>>
>>> This list is foremost a customer community forum. It's rarely  
>>> looked at by any RunRev staffers, and normally only when they get  
>>> noticed by comunity members that things aren't as smooth as  
>>> usual. Now guess how comunity members do that? By mailing to  
>>> support: support at runrev.com
>>>
>>> Remember to have fun
>>> Bj?rnke
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> official ChatRev page:
>>> http://bjoernke.com/runrev/chatrev.php
>>>
>>> Chat with other RunRev developers:
>>> go stack URL "http://bjoernke.com/stacks/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev"
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jerry.daniels at me.com  Sat Dec 20 21:38:59 2008
From: jerry.daniels at me.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:38:59 -0600
Subject: post about GLx2
In-Reply-To: <5DC02887-FF52-4EEF-9889-4A2DA9AF6C6C@pacifier.com>
References: <5DC02887-FF52-4EEF-9889-4A2DA9AF6C6C@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <EFED4322-40EA-464C-B7A7-405BFC4F53E3@me.com>

JB,

1. Did you know we have a support site for GLX2? We do. Link is in my  
signature below. Please post reports there going forward.

2. We have a large number of users with the configuration you note.  
GLX2 works for them. So it must be something about your installation  
or environment.

3. "it will not work" is not really a bug report. We need to be able  
to replicate a problem before we can fix it. Could you post the detail  
of what you mean by "will not work" and what led up to it "not  
working"? Also any error messages would be very helpful.

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Daniels & Mara, Inc.
Makers of GLX2
http://www.glx2.com

On Dec 20, 2008, at 7:05 PM, -= JB =- wrote:

> Here is the message I was trying to post about GLx2 and tthe latest  
> Rev beta.
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> I just updated to the latest Rev beta.  I use GLx2 script editor and  
> it will not
> work with the latest Rev beta on and OS X 10.4.11.  I updated to the  
> latest
> version of GLx2 and the latest beta of GLx2 but it still will  not  
> work.
>
> -=>JB<=-
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From randall at randallreetz.com  Sat Dec 20 21:57:21 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Reetz)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:57:21 -0800
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
Message-ID: <20081221030017.XHDZ11530.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@Inbox>

I think all if you have drank a bit too much of the rev coolaid.  This dicussion was about Languages with a capital "L".  Comparing rev on the same level with C is like comparing Islam with sarah palin's local prayer house.  Lets be reasonable please.


-----Original Message-----
From: "Bj?rnke von Gierke" <bvg at mac.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: 12/20/2008 4:47 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] If programming languages were religions...


On 20 Dec 2008, at 04:41, Randall Reetz wrote:

> I wish people would use the term xtalk when refering to this  
> language its structure and lexicon both come intact from hypercard  
> and smalltalk before that.  Revenue is a great integration synthesis  
> of xtalk and a cross platform runtime engines, but the language is  
> xtalk all the way in.  Seems only fair.  No?

No. Time for car analogies (Noooo!!!):

If someone comes to the car salesman, and says "I'd want to buy a  
Lexus". Would you argue he'd be better off to say "I'd want to buy any  
car"?

Xtalk is a loose description of  types of languages, which includes  
hypercard as well as Rev. Of course the analogy will break down  
quickly if you ask 10 xtalk followers whether applescript is an xtalk  
language or not.

Describing stuff is always hard, especially with the name trinity of  
RunRev marketing, but using xtalk for just one language will probably  
garner you some internet hate :)

Have Fun
Bj?rnke
-- 

official ChatRev page:
http://bjoernke.com/runrev/chatrev.php

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://bjoernke.com/stacks/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev"

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From sundown at pacifier.com  Sat Dec 20 23:36:49 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:36:49 -0800
Subject: latest beta & GLx2
In-Reply-To: <B4BA7521-2F13-48DE-A316-BD383CD2DF74@mac.com>
References: <C6AFB307-FA4F-40E5-BEBA-D904BD69D866@pacifier.com>
	<B4BA7521-2F13-48DE-A316-BD383CD2DF74@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BAD588CA-91FB-445B-96BB-35947628BF17@pacifier.com>


On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:55 PM, Bj?rnke von Gierke wrote:

>
> Remember to have fun
> Bj?rnke
>
> -- 

Bernard Madoff with everyones money and Michael
stoie the Chertoff their back.

-=>JB<=-




From geradamas at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 21 04:28:16 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 01:28:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
Message-ID: <528702.60065.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Randall Reetz wrote:

"This dicussion was about Languages with a capital "L".  Comparing rev on 
the same level with C is like comparing Islam with sarah palin's 
local prayer house."

Somebody is going to have to jump up and down on Mr Reetz until he begs
forgiveness for that one.

Ouch!

Also comparing a religion with a building is an invalid comparison:
you cannot compare two kinds!

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From lists at futilism.com  Sun Dec 21 06:59:56 2008
From: lists at futilism.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 11:59:56 +0000
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
In-Reply-To: <20081221030017.XHDZ11530.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@Inbox>
References: <20081221030017.XHDZ11530.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@Inbox>
Message-ID: <2F7D2C4A-E31B-4579-925A-E07B1CB404AF@futilism.com>

If we're doing taxonomy of programming languages, then I'd say that   
Revolution is to xTalk as C is to Algol. (if we're talking about  
popularity, there's no comparison).

I also think the religious metaphor is a good joke that seems to have  
been stretched beyond it's breaking point...

Best,

Mark

On 21 Dec 2008, at 02:57, Randall Reetz wrote:

> I think all if you have drank a bit too much of the rev coolaid.   
> This dicussion was about Languages with a capital "L".  Comparing  
> rev on the same level with C is like comparing Islam with sarah  
> palin's local prayer house.  Lets be reasonable please.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Bj?rnke von Gierke" <bvg at mac.com>
> To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: 12/20/2008 4:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
>
>
> On 20 Dec 2008, at 04:41, Randall Reetz wrote:
>
>> I wish people would use the term xtalk when refering to this
>> language its structure and lexicon both come intact from hypercard
>> and smalltalk before that.  Revenue is a great integration synthesis
>> of xtalk and a cross platform runtime engines, but the language is
>> xtalk all the way in.  Seems only fair.  No?
>
> No. Time for car analogies (Noooo!!!):
>
> If someone comes to the car salesman, and says "I'd want to buy a
> Lexus". Would you argue he'd be better off to say "I'd want to buy any
> car"?
>
> Xtalk is a loose description of  types of languages, which includes
> hypercard as well as Rev. Of course the analogy will break down
> quickly if you ask 10 xtalk followers whether applescript is an xtalk
> language or not.
>
> Describing stuff is always hard, especially with the name trinity of
> RunRev marketing, but using xtalk for just one language will probably
> garner you some internet hate :)
>
> Have Fun
> Bj?rnke
> -- 
>
> official ChatRev page:
> http://bjoernke.com/runrev/chatrev.php
>
> Chat with other RunRev developers:
> go stack URL "http://bjoernke.com/stacks/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev"
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Sun Dec 21 11:42:26 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:42:26 +0100
Subject: [ANN] ListMagic accessible through Tutorials Picker
Message-ID: <AB892165-0B1B-4704-8F71-EEA5892398B5@sosmartsoftware.com>

Dear all,

ListMagic* widget is now accessible through Tutorials Picker**:

1. Using a version of ListMagic downloaded on-the-fly from the  
Internet ensures you to always work with the last available version.
2. If you are a registered user, you will be recognized as such even  
when using Tutorials Picker to access it: that's the magic :-)

*ListMagic is a widget for Revolution Studio or Enterprise (but  
MetaCard also) that requires 2.9 engine or higher.
ListMagic instantly generates lists complete with:

? iTunes configurable look and feel
? Column headings
? Automatically resizing column widths
? User resizable columns using drag
? Columns reorganization using drag and drop
? Multiple ascending or descending columns sort
? In-line editing
? Built in filtering
? Built in search
? Built in print and export functions
? Built in everything!

* Tutorials Picker provides real time access to So Smart Software  
tutorials (27 free tutorials at the moment listed below + ListMagic)  
directly from the web.
By using it, you are sure to always access last updates and new  
releases.
Tutorials Picker is free and available at http:// 
www.sosmartsoftware.com/?r=revolution_didacticiels&l=en

How to select objects using a selection rectangle built on-the-fly
How to reorganize a list field manually using Rev 2.9 drag and drop  
feature
How to implement clever auto-completion in entry boxes
How to manage drag and drop #2
How to create custom shaped windows
How to put in place a stars ranking system
How to create custom controls using PNG images
How to master user's data entries in a field
How to Monitor a QuickTime Player by Script
How to Download Data from the Internet
How to Manage Stack Resizing
How to Manage Table Fields
How to Display and Manage Ask Dialogs
How to Display and Manage Answer Dialogs
How to Manage Tabbed Buttons
How to Ask for a Password
How to Manage User's Waiting Time
How to Manage Drag and Drop for Files or Folders
How to Fix Stack Decorations
How to build and Manage Dynamic Menus
How to Manage "Snap to" Scrollbars
How to Create Contextual Tooltips on-the-fly
How to Store Images
How to Create and Manage HTML lists
How to Install "Metal Appearance" on All Platforms
How to Change Card Dimensions Smoothly
How to Magnify Images

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From randall at randallreetz.com  Sun Dec 21 12:19:49 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Reetz)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 09:19:49 -0800
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
Message-ID: <20081221172245.JKIK26612.atlmtaow01.cingularme.com@Inbox>

There are three aspects that determine the fit of a development system.  The first is final execution environment.  Rev is agnostic to all three major platforms.  But rev is kind of limited within internet facing browsers.  The second is development environment.  Rev's IDE is object centered as though it was an interface mockup tool.  The IDE has been localized for each of the three big platforms.  As with all xtalk tools, rev is a object centered message passing language in which events generate messages that are sent down an object stacking hierarchy until they find an object which has  script that has a handler that matches.  The handler is a subroutine written n the xtalk lexicon and syntax.  And this scripting language, the third aspect of a development system, is identical to all xtalk languages (except that it has a larger function library than most).

Rev can brag about its IDE and its cross platform development and delivery flexibility... But it had better admit that its language is xtalk and that rev neither invented it or significantly improved it.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: "Bj?rnke von Gierke" <bvg at mac.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: 12/20/2008 4:47 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] If programming languages were religions...


On 20 Dec 2008, at 04:41, Randall Reetz wrote:

> I wish people would use the term xtalk when refering to this  
> language its structure and lexicon both come intact from hypercard  
> and smalltalk before that.  Revenue is a great integration synthesis  
> of xtalk and a cross platform runtime engines, but the language is  
> xtalk all the way in.  Seems only fair.  No?

No. Time for car analogies (Noooo!!!):

If someone comes to the car salesman, and says "I'd want to buy a  
Lexus". Would you argue he'd be better off to say "I'd want to buy any  
car"?

Xtalk is a loose description of  types of languages, which includes  
hypercard as well as Rev. Of course the analogy will break down  
quickly if you ask 10 xtalk followers whether applescript is an xtalk  
language or not.

Describing stuff is always hard, especially with the name trinity of  
RunRev marketing, but using xtalk for just one language will probably  
garner you some internet hate :)

Have Fun
Bj?rnke
-- 

official ChatRev page:
http://bjoernke.com/runrev/chatrev.php

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://bjoernke.com/stacks/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev"

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From randall at randallreetz.com  Sun Dec 21 12:32:09 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Reetz)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 09:32:09 -0800
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
Message-ID: <20081221173504.FWPE11530.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@Inbox>

A little respect to bill atkinson at apple (hypercard's inventor) and allan kay before him (the xerox parc inventor of smalltalk). Please. 

-----Original Message-----
From: "Randall Reetz" <randall at randallreetz.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: 12/21/2008 9:19 AM
Subject: RE: [OT] If programming languages were religions...

There are three aspects that determine the fit of a development system.  The first is final execution environment.  Rev is agnostic to all three major platforms.  But rev is kind of limited within internet facing browsers.  The second is development environment.  Rev's IDE is object centered as though it was an interface mockup tool.  The IDE has been localized for each of the three big platforms.  As with all xtalk tools, rev is a object centered message passing language in which events generate messages that are sent down an object stacking hierarchy until they find an object which has  script that has a handler that matches.  The handler is a subroutine written n the xtalk lexicon and syntax.  And this scripting language, the third aspect of a development system, is identical to all xtalk languages (except that it has a larger function library than most).

Rev can brag about its IDE and its cross platform development and delivery flexibility... But it had better admit that its language is xtalk and that rev neither invented it or significantly improved it.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: "Bj?rnke von Gierke" <bvg at mac.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: 12/20/2008 4:47 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] If programming languages were religions...


On 20 Dec 2008, at 04:41, Randall Reetz wrote:

> I wish people would use the term xtalk when refering to this  
> language its structure and lexicon both come intact from hypercard  
> and smalltalk before that.  Revenue is a great integration synthesis  
> of xtalk and a cross platform runtime engines, but the language is  
> xtalk all the way in.  Seems only fair.  No?

No. Time for car analogies (Noooo!!!):

If someone comes to the car salesman, and says "I'd want to buy a  
Lexus". Would you argue he'd be better off to say "I'd want to buy any  
car"?

Xtalk is a loose description of  types of languages, which includes  
hypercard as well as Rev. Of course the analogy will break down  
quickly if you ask 10 xtalk followers whether applescript is an xtalk  
language or not.

Describing stuff is always hard, especially with the name trinity of  
RunRev marketing, but using xtalk for just one language will probably  
garner you some internet hate :)

Have Fun
Bj?rnke
-- 

official ChatRev page:
http://bjoernke.com/runrev/chatrev.php

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://bjoernke.com/stacks/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev"

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



[truncated by sender]


From bvg at mac.com  Sun Dec 21 13:20:12 2008
From: bvg at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rnke_von_Gierke?=)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 19:20:12 +0100
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
In-Reply-To: <20081221173504.FWPE11530.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@Inbox>
References: <20081221173504.FWPE11530.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@Inbox>
Message-ID: <BB880EE0-7D55-460A-8A32-439CBDF3997C@mac.com>

Dear Randall

Uhm... I think there's a huge misunderstanding, therefore I'll  
rephrase my statement:

Revolution (the language) is not "the xTalk", similar how "apple" is  
not "the fruits". Sure, Rev is one of many languages that can be  
called xTalk, and apples themselves are one of many fruit kinds that  
do exist. Yet, I won't claim that all fruits are apples, and therefore  
I am against your suggestion to call Revolution (the language) "the  
xTalk" from now on.

I'm also pretty sure I did not imply that RunRev (company) invented  
everything that could be called xTalk. I do think that calling the  
Revolution language "the xTalk" would actually make people assume just  
that.

Finally, I won't further participate in this... "discussion" with you  
in any way, despite being sure that you have much more to say on the  
topic.

Bj?rnke

On 21 Dec 2008, at 18:32, Randall Reetz wrote:

> A little respect to bill atkinson at apple (hypercard's inventor)  
> and allan kay before him (the xerox parc inventor of smalltalk).  
> Please.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Randall Reetz" <randall at randallreetz.com>
> To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: 12/21/2008 9:19 AM
> Subject: RE: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
>
> There are three aspects that determine the fit of a development  
> system.  The first is final execution environment.  Rev is agnostic  
> to all three major platforms.  But rev is kind of limited within  
> internet facing browsers.  The second is development environment.   
> Rev's IDE is object centered as though it was an interface mockup  
> tool.  The IDE has been localized for each of the three big  
> platforms.  As with all xtalk tools, rev is a object centered  
> message passing language in which events generate messages that are  
> sent down an object stacking hierarchy until they find an object  
> which has  script that has a handler that matches.  The handler is a  
> subroutine written n the xtalk lexicon and syntax.  And this  
> scripting language, the third aspect of a development system, is  
> identical to all xtalk languages (except that it has a larger  
> function library than most).
>
> Rev can brag about its IDE and its cross platform development and  
> delivery flexibility... But it had better admit that its language is  
> xtalk and that rev neither invented it or significantly improved it.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Bj?rnke von Gierke" <bvg at mac.com>
> To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: 12/20/2008 4:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
>
>
> On 20 Dec 2008, at 04:41, Randall Reetz wrote:
>
>> I wish people would use the term xtalk when refering to this
>> language its structure and lexicon both come intact from hypercard
>> and smalltalk before that.  Revenue is a great integration synthesis
>> of xtalk and a cross platform runtime engines, but the language is
>> xtalk all the way in.  Seems only fair.  No?
>
> No. Time for car analogies (Noooo!!!):
>
> If someone comes to the car salesman, and says "I'd want to buy a
> Lexus". Would you argue he'd be better off to say "I'd want to buy any
> car"?
>
> Xtalk is a loose description of  types of languages, which includes
> hypercard as well as Rev. Of course the analogy will break down
> quickly if you ask 10 xtalk followers whether applescript is an xtalk
> language or not.
>
> Describing stuff is always hard, especially with the name trinity of
> RunRev marketing, but using xtalk for just one language will probably
> garner you some internet hate :)
>
> Have Fun
> Bj?rnke
> -- 
>
> official ChatRev page:
> http://bjoernke.com/runrev/chatrev.php
>
> Chat with other RunRev developers:
> go stack URL "http://bjoernke.com/stacks/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev"
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
> [truncated by sender]
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From randall at randallreetz.com  Sun Dec 21 15:10:59 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Reetz)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 12:10:59 -0800
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
Message-ID: <20081221201355.PKHL9346.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>

It hardly seems reasonable to honor your imposibly awkward logic with a reply, but who i ask suggested calling Rev's script "the xtalk" or for that matter, "the" anythhing?  I dont think anyone is confused by my clear argument.  Maybe your thinking is confused by rhetoric within you.  Coolaid.  We all make wway too much of it right inside our own heads.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Bj?rnke von Gierke" <bvg at mac.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: 12/21/2008 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] If programming languages were religions...

Dear Randall

Uhm... I think there's a huge misunderstanding, therefore I'll  
rephrase my statement:

Revolution (the language) is not "the xTalk", similar how "apple" is  
not "the fruits". Sure, Rev is one of many languages that can be  
called xTalk, and apples themselves are one of many fruit kinds that  
do exist. Yet, I won't claim that all fruits are apples, and therefore  
I am against your suggestion to call Revolution (the language) "the  
xTalk" from now on.

I'm also pretty sure I did not imply that RunRev (company) invented  
everything that could be called xTalk. I do think that calling the  
Revolution language "the xTalk" would actually make people assume just  
that.

Finally, I won't further participate in this... "discussion" with you  
in any way, despite being sure that you have much more to say on the  
topic.

Bj?rnke

On 21 Dec 2008, at 18:32, Randall Reetz wrote:

> A little respect to bill atkinson at apple (hypercard's inventor)  
> and allan kay before him (the xerox parc inventor of smalltalk).  
> Please.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Randall Reetz" <randall at randallreetz.com>
> To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: 12/21/2008 9:19 AM
> Subject: RE: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
>
> There are three aspects that determine the fit of a development  
> system.  The first is final execution environment.  Rev is agnostic  
> to all three major platforms.  But rev is kind of limited within  
> internet facing browsers.  The second is development environment.   
> Rev's IDE is object centered as though it was an interface mockup  
> tool.  The IDE has been localized for each of the three big  
> platforms.  As with all xtalk tools, rev is a object centered  
> message passing language in which events generate messages that are  
> sent down an object stacking hierarchy until they find an object  
> which has  script that has a handler that matches.  The handler is a  
> subroutine written n the xtalk lexicon and syntax.  And this  
> scripting language, the third aspect of a development system, is  
> identical to all xtalk languages (except that it has a larger  
> function library than most).
>
> Rev can brag about its IDE and its cross platform development and  
> delivery flexibility... But it had better admit that its language is  
> xtalk and that rev neither invented it or significantly improved it.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Bj?rnke von Gierke" <bvg at mac.com>
> To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>


[truncated by sender]


From jerry.daniels at me.com  Sun Dec 21 15:14:40 2008
From: jerry.daniels at me.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:14:40 -0600
Subject: post about GLx2
In-Reply-To: <5DC02887-FF52-4EEF-9889-4A2DA9AF6C6C@pacifier.com>
References: <5DC02887-FF52-4EEF-9889-4A2DA9AF6C6C@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <97B5EEFA-18BD-4F7E-B5ED-92280B7D02A8@me.com>

JB,

It seems I had not upgraded to the latest Rev beta when I spoke of no  
incompatibilities with GLX2 and the latest Rev Beta. It appears I  
spoke too quickly.

We're working to discover what it was that changed in Rev to vex GLX2.  
More details to come on the support site linked below in my sig.

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Daniels & Mara, Inc.
Makers of GLX2
http://www.glx2.com





On Dec 20, 2008, at 7:05 PM, -= JB =- wrote:

> Here is the message I was trying to post about GLx2 and tthe latest  
> Rev beta.
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> I just updated to the latest Rev beta.  I use GLx2 script editor and  
> it will not
> work with the latest Rev beta on and OS X 10.4.11.  I updated to the  
> latest
> version of GLx2 and the latest beta of GLx2 but it still will  not  
> work.
>
> -=>JB<=-
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From katir at hindu.org  Sun Dec 21 16:05:17 2008
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 11:05:17 -1000
Subject: Hammering on about Paragraphs
In-Reply-To: <426899.23581.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <426899.23581.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <494EAF8D.9000604@hindu.org>

Richmond Mathewson wrote:
> JLG wrote:
>
> "I'm not sure what "identifying" means in this case, nor what identifies 
> one method as British and the other as American. All the American books 
> I've seen have indented paragraphs with no space between."
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> RANT WARNING
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> That's odd;  when I was at Southern Illinois University at Carbondale
> I was told by several professors (I use the small 'p' deliberately) that
> Indented paragraphs were 'British' and unacceptable. I was also asked by 
> one "professor" (of Old English, no less) why I couldn't spell English
> correctly! I remember on that day I hopped in the car and went out and sat...[snip).
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> RANT ENDING
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>   

This one just pushed my buttons....

Having been involved in "American" book publishing, editing and magazine 
printing since 1972... = 36 years (wherein our editor's always, with 
glee, change "colour" to "color")  I can't help but cringe and weigh in 
here: your Profs at USI Carbondale were lost in Ivory Tower Arrogant 
Intellectual Polemic Madness, a disease that runs rampant, 
unfortunately...to set up such a contrived polarity.

Not that I'm against educators in higher education, but over the years 
one just gets sick of these kinds of assertions as they so often pollute 
discourse that should otherwise be grounded in empirical observation and 
objectivity, by the very ones whose careers are supposed to be based on 
their empicism and objectivity. Instead we just get minds filled with 
books that were regurgitated content of other books, that were 
regurgitated contents of other books, that were regurgitated content of 
other books... (don't get me going...)

Whether you use indented paragraphs, block (flush left, one blank line) 
paragraphs or "run in- in-line" paragraphs broken with just an old para 
sign... is a typographic design decision and has nothing to do with 
national literary conventions. "Indented paragraphs were 'British' and 
unacceptable." is such a classic statement of the ignorance of many 
academics about the real world. Just look at the "American" books and 
zines in any Barnes and Noble store for verification.

It would be just "wrong" for RR to set up any kind of conventions based 
on such vacuous criteria.

Sivakatirswami




From briany at qldlearning.com  Sun Dec 21 17:40:24 2008
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:40:24 -0800
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
In-Reply-To: <20081221201355.PKHL9346.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>
References: <20081221201355.PKHL9346.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>
Message-ID: <89807FB1-5C0A-448B-BC49-5323B14B779E@qldlearning.com>

Randall,

I'm not sure where your angst is coming from. This list if full of  
people (myself included) that have given every possible credit to  
SmallTalk, Hypercard, Supercard, et al. Nobody disagrees that Rev is  
most certainly an xTalk language. I'm afraid you have vastly  
underestimated (and belittled) the experience of people around here.  
There are plenty of us who know darn well every last bit of xTalk  
history and are quite familiar with other languages, including the  
almighty C. People here have done every imaginable thing from day 1 of  
xTalk's existence.

Calling out "awkward logic", "rhetoric" and "Coolaid" drinking won't  
get you very far and I'm quite sure that disagreeing with you is not  
tantamount to failing to grasp your clear argument. Shockingly, many  
of us completely understand your points, completely grasp several  
programming languages and all of the history of xTalk and yet still  
would disagree with you.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I for one need not  
drink Kool-Aid to disagree with it.

Finally, your claim that RunRev has not made any significant  
improvements to xTalk doesn't hold much water with me. Just for  
starters, try a "repeat for each" loop in Hypercard. Or arrays. Or  
say, running everything on Windows and Linux. Or as pure CGI scripting  
language. Or try writing native socket scripts. Or compare the  
performance of the compiler. Or imageData. Or... the many other things  
I could surely name given more than a moment's thought.

> It hardly seems reasonable to honor your imposibly awkward logic  
> with a reply, but who i ask suggested calling Rev's script "the  
> xtalk" or for that matter, "the" anythhing?  I dont think anyone is  
> confused by my clear argument.  Maybe your thinking is confused by  
> rhetoric within you.  Coolaid.  We all make wway too much of it  
> right inside our own heads.





From randall at randallreetz.com  Sun Dec 21 17:58:22 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Reetz)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:58:22 -0800
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
Message-ID: <20081221230117.ZCJJ9346.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>

When someone adds a new function or even library to a version of C, do people claim it isnt still C?  The essence of xtalk is completly independent from lexical additions.  A better question would be "how many changes would you have to make to an xtalk incarnation before you could legitimately clasify it as its own language (at the level of C or Lisp)?  This whole discussion is in responces to posts that hung revTalk up at the taxonomic level with these other legitimately different languages.  I find that irresponsible and false.  That is all.

By the way, and not that it matters... I hate C and java and lisp and dont even particularly like smalltalk... Which is my way of thanking the true gods of xtalk, allan and bill (and the other bill).

I dont seek friends... I seek truth.

randall      

-----Original Message-----
From: "Brian Yennie" <briany at qldlearning.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: 12/21/2008 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] If programming languages were religions...

Randall,

I'm not sure where your angst is coming from. This list if full of  
people (myself included) that have given every possible credit to  
SmallTalk, Hypercard, Supercard, et al. Nobody disagrees that Rev is  
most certainly an xTalk language. I'm afraid you have vastly  
underestimated (and belittled) the experience of people around here.  
There are plenty of us who know darn well every last bit of xTalk  
history and are quite familiar with other languages, including the  
almighty C. People here have done every imaginable thing from day 1 of  
xTalk's existence.

Calling out "awkward logic", "rhetoric" and "Coolaid" drinking won't  
get you very far and I'm quite sure that disagreeing with you is not  
tantamount to failing to grasp your clear argument. Shockingly, many  
of us completely understand your points, completely grasp several  
programming languages and all of the history of xTalk and yet still  
would disagree with you.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I for one need not  
drink Kool-Aid to disagree with it.

Finally, your claim that RunRev has not made any significant  
improvements to xTalk doesn't hold much water with me. Just for  
starters, try a "repeat for each" loop in Hypercard. Or arrays. Or  
say, running everything on Windows and Linux. Or as pure CGI scripting  
language. Or try writing native socket scripts. Or compare the  
performance of the compiler. Or imageData. Or... the many other things  
I could surely name given more than a moment's thought.

> It hardly seems reasonable to honor your imposibly awkward logic  
> with a reply, but who i ask suggested calling Rev's script "the  
> xtalk" or for that matter, "the" anythhing?  I dont think anyone is  
> confused by my clear argument.  Maybe your thinking is confused by  
> rhetoric within you.  Coolaid.  We all make wway too much of it  
> right inside our own heads.



_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From tsj at unimelb.edu.au  Sun Dec 21 18:20:44 2008
From: tsj at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:20:44 +1100
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
In-Reply-To: <20081221230117.ZCJJ9346.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>
Message-ID: <C5751A7C.912C%tsj@unimelb.edu.au>

Ahhh, the age-old battle between 'splitters' and 'lumpers'.

I guess we you adopt a (Linnean) taxonomic metaphor then...

If you're a splitter then:
xTalk is the genus (language group) and Revolution/Hypertalk/Supertalk are
the species (languages)

But if you're a lumper then:
xTalk is the species (language) and Revolution/Hypertalk/Supertalk are the
subspecies (language variants)

Personally I couldn't care either way. Revolution is what it is.

Terry...

On 22/12/08 9:58 AM, "Randall Reetz" <randall at randallreetz.com> wrote:

> When someone adds a new function or even library to a version of C, do people
> claim it isnt still C?  The essence of xtalk is completly independent from
> lexical additions.  A better question would be "how many changes would you
> have to make to an xtalk incarnation before you could legitimately clasify it
> as its own language (at the level of C or Lisp)?  This whole discussion is in
> responces to posts that hung revTalk up at the taxonomic level with these
> other legitimately different languages.  I find that irresponsible and false.
> That is all.
> 
> By the way, and not that it matters... I hate C and java and lisp and dont
> even particularly like smalltalk... Which is my way of thanking the true gods
> of xtalk, allan and bill (and the other bill).
> 
> I dont seek friends... I seek truth.
> 
> randall      
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Brian Yennie" <briany at qldlearning.com>
> To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: 12/21/2008 2:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
> 
> Randall,
> 
> I'm not sure where your angst is coming from. This list if full of
> people (myself included) that have given every possible credit to
> SmallTalk, Hypercard, Supercard, et al. Nobody disagrees that Rev is
> most certainly an xTalk language. I'm afraid you have vastly
> underestimated (and belittled) the experience of people around here.
> There are plenty of us who know darn well every last bit of xTalk
> history and are quite familiar with other languages, including the
> almighty C. People here have done every imaginable thing from day 1 of
> xTalk's existence.
> 
> Calling out "awkward logic", "rhetoric" and "Coolaid" drinking won't
> get you very far and I'm quite sure that disagreeing with you is not
> tantamount to failing to grasp your clear argument. Shockingly, many
> of us completely understand your points, completely grasp several
> programming languages and all of the history of xTalk and yet still
> would disagree with you.
> 
> You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I for one need not
> drink Kool-Aid to disagree with it.
> 
> Finally, your claim that RunRev has not made any significant
> improvements to xTalk doesn't hold much water with me. Just for
> starters, try a "repeat for each" loop in Hypercard. Or arrays. Or
> say, running everything on Windows and Linux. Or as pure CGI scripting
> language. Or try writing native socket scripts. Or compare the
> performance of the compiler. Or imageData. Or... the many other things
> I could surely name given more than a moment's thought.
> 
>> It hardly seems reasonable to honor your imposibly awkward logic
>> with a reply, but who i ask suggested calling Rev's script "the
>> xtalk" or for that matter, "the" anythhing?  I dont think anyone is
>> confused by my clear argument.  Maybe your thinking is confused by
>> rhetoric within you.  Coolaid.  We all make wway too much of it
>> right inside our own heads.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

-- 
Dr Terry Judd
Lecturer in Educational Technology (Design)
Biomedical Multimedia Unit
Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences
The University of Melbourne
Parkville VIC 3052
AUSTRALIA

61-3 8344 0187



From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Sun Dec 21 21:41:57 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:41:57 -0800
Subject: Hammering on about Paragraphs
In-Reply-To: <494EAF8D.9000604@hindu.org>
References: <426899.23581.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<494EAF8D.9000604@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <4be051070812211841s6ee0e705j41c2143ec197daaf@mail.gmail.com>

You know, this whole business about indenting versus blank lines, arrogant
higher ed educators and the like takes me back a few years when I was
finishing my second master's degree and was positively hounded over similar
issues.
Over the various years and degree programs, I've had to "learn" the
following approved "styles" (formatting techniques):

Turabian
Chicago
MLA
AP
APA
Whatever the style was for scientific/technical writing
Whatever the style was for legal writing
Harvard

And -- you know what?  I can't really keep any of them straight.  For the
life of me it just isn't clear why higher ed places such emphasis on where
to put commas, dates, and other things over what really ought to be more
important, namely, CONTENT.

Maybe we can start a new thread on how formatting styles are like various
religions?

Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com



On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 1:05 PM, Sivakatirswami <katir at hindu.org> wrote:

> Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>
>> JLG wrote:
>>
>> "I'm not sure what "identifying" means in this case, nor what identifies
>> one method as British and the other as American. All the American books I've
>> seen have indented paragraphs with no space between."
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>> RANT WARNING
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> That's odd;  when I was at Southern Illinois University at Carbondale
>> I was told by several professors (I use the small 'p' deliberately) that
>> Indented paragraphs were 'British' and unacceptable. I was also asked by
>> one "professor" (of Old English, no less) why I couldn't spell English
>> correctly! I remember on that day I hopped in the car and went out and
>> sat...[snip).
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> RANT ENDING
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>
> This one just pushed my buttons....
>
> Having been involved in "American" book publishing, editing and magazine
> printing since 1972... = 36 years (wherein our editor's always, with glee,
> change "colour" to "color")  I can't help but cringe and weigh in here: your
> Profs at USI Carbondale were lost in Ivory Tower Arrogant Intellectual
> Polemic Madness, a disease that runs rampant, unfortunately...to set up such
> a contrived polarity.
>
> Not that I'm against educators in higher education, but over the years one
> just gets sick of these kinds of assertions as they so often pollute
> discourse that should otherwise be grounded in empirical observation and
> objectivity, by the very ones whose careers are supposed to be based on
> their empicism and objectivity. Instead we just get minds filled with books
> that were regurgitated content of other books, that were regurgitated
> contents of other books, that were regurgitated content of other books...
> (don't get me going...)
>
> Whether you use indented paragraphs, block (flush left, one blank line)
> paragraphs or "run in- in-line" paragraphs broken with just an old para
> sign... is a typographic design decision and has nothing to do with national
> literary conventions. "Indented paragraphs were 'British' and unacceptable."
> is such a classic statement of the ignorance of many academics about the
> real world. Just look at the "American" books and zines in any Barnes and
> Noble store for verification.
>
> It would be just "wrong" for RR to set up any kind of conventions based on
> such vacuous criteria.
>
> Sivakatirswami
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Sun Dec 21 22:55:50 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 19:55:50 -0800
Subject: OT: Apple Announces Its Last Year at Macworld
In-Reply-To: <38C5BA4C578446EF850BD83E4527FAE4@GATEWAY>
References: <20081218041212.121914897EC@mail.runrev.com>
	<4903961D-00CF-4126-AC46-7124E7BA5817@siphonophore.com>
	<CA1A181F81EF4AA19A08D80CF6A3C9C5@GATEWAY>
	<184136677265.20081219113622@ahsoftware.net>
	<38C5BA4C578446EF850BD83E4527FAE4@GATEWAY>
Message-ID: <4be051070812211955q3b3feed9k204909f041b514cf@mail.gmail.com>

Whatever happened to MacAddict?
I miss the 'tude...

Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com

On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 12:52 PM, Lynn Fredricks <
lfredricks at proactive-intl.com> wrote:

>
>
> Yes...the two 'zines I miss are MacUser and MacWeek. MacWeek was the
> industry zine, equivalent to the current 'eweek' which previously was
> PCWeek.
>
>


From mdswindell at cruzio.com  Mon Dec 22 00:36:13 2008
From: mdswindell at cruzio.com (Mark Swindell)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 21:36:13 -0800
Subject: the grabbedObject?
Message-ID: <48A0FE77-E564-420D-A161-EB4A10B8EFB5@cruzio.com>

I've got a transparent button.  I'm grabbing it.  When the button goes  
over a white field I want its color to change to black, when it moves  
over a green field I want it to change to yellow.

Is there a way to refer to such an object from within a script so that

on mouseEnter
set the textColor of the grabbedObject to "yellow"
end mouseEnter

Currently I have it change color on mouseUp based on whether the loc  
of "me" (the grabbedButton) is within the rect of field "white" or  
field "yellow" but it's not what I want.




From briany at qldlearning.com  Mon Dec 22 01:07:59 2008
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 22:07:59 -0800
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
In-Reply-To: <20081221230117.ZCJJ9346.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>
References: <20081221230117.ZCJJ9346.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>
Message-ID: <D3E64119-B33C-4FA1-ADB2-53937796C0AB@qldlearning.com>

> When someone adds a new function or even library to a version of C,  
> do people claim it isnt still C?

No. So then by your logic, should we should call it HyperTalk? Because  
that was the name of Hypercard's scripting language, not "xTalk".

> The essence of xtalk is completly independent from lexical additions.

OK, sure - Can you imagine what would happen if we called every  
language with C-style syntax "C"? I mean hey, PHP is just interpreted  
C with different libraries and funny looking "$" signs, right?

> A better question would be "how many changes would you have to make  
> to an xtalk incarnation before you could legitimately clasify it as  
> its own language (at the level of C or Lisp)?  This whole discussion  
> is in responces to posts that hung revTalk up at the taxonomic level  
> with these other legitimately different languages.  I find that  
> irresponsible and false.  That is all.

There's nothing irresponsible about it, because you are the only one I  
see stirring up some sort of arbitrary taxonomic discussion. This  
thread started as a light-hearted discussion of an article comparing  
programming languages to religions. Someone dared call Revolution by  
its name, and you jumped in on an xTalk rant.

> By the way, and not that it matters... I hate C and java and lisp  
> and dont even particularly like smalltalk... Which is my way of  
> thanking the true gods of xtalk, allan and bill (and the other bill).

If you want to thank the forefathers of xTalk that's fine... again no  
dissent here. But give a little credit to the current generation.  
There's been a bit of value added since HyperTalk and that takes work  
and smart people too. The whole thing doesn't just fall into place as  
"lexical additions" from the sky.

> I dont seek friends... I seek truth.

It seems to me you just seek to be right, and condescending towards  
those who disagree. Most of us here enjoy being friends, and it's a  
big part of why this list is so helpful. Disagreement is fine but you  
might reconsider the need to hijack a thread and start calling out all  
of the "Kool-Aid" drinkers in the group.

Bjornke's reply for one was crystal clear. You felt the need to  
"honor" it with an insulting reply. No friends and no truth there.


From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Dec 22 01:15:26 2008
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:15:26 -0600
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
In-Reply-To: <89807FB1-5C0A-448B-BC49-5323B14B779E@qldlearning.com>
References: <20081221201355.PKHL9346.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>
	<89807FB1-5C0A-448B-BC49-5323B14B779E@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <665591460812212215s34630d66x9d4dbde26f59e922@mail.gmail.com>

Brian,

Good comments. I agree with them all. As a beta HC and SC user, I
agree with the fact Rev has taken those beginning xTalk languages WAY
beyond the original scripted solutions they provided. It seems quite a
disservice to the Rev programming team to suggest otherwise.

For someone who thinks "all if (sic) you have drank a bit too much of
the rev coolaid." it's interesting see search and see how much he has
asked of us 'coolaid' drinkers for help on this list.

I would expect a xTalk (Hypercard) expert to not have anything else to
learn from this bit of trivia we know as Revolution-- after all-- it's
just xTalk.


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 22 04:20:19 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 01:20:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hammering on about Paragraphs
Message-ID: <294107.89462.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Judy Perry wrote:

"For the
life of me it just isn't clear why higher ed places such emphasis on where
to put commas, dates, and other things over what really ought to be more
important, namely, CONTENT."

Another argument I had at SIU Carbondale was why the English department 
adhered to the Chicago Style Manual and the Linguistics Dept. to the
LSA. The latter one was incredibly tedious, insisting that Bibliographic refs. has author's names in 10 point capitals, while everything else was
in 12 point. My thesis committee sent my thesis back 5 times for
formatting revision!

What was more interesting was an obsession held by the Old English prof.
about my syntax; something about 'comma splices'. Eventually, having
got really upset by the silly prof's going on about this, I went to my
TA supervisor ( Dr Lise Weiner - now at McGill ), a wonderful Canadian;
she contacted an expert at the Oxford University Press who replied
saying something about the pedantic nature of this woman, and what was
termed 'a comma splice' was perfectly acceptable in 'British' English.

When I went to the United Satets of America I felt extremely refreshed
by the seeming capability to be endlessly creative with the English
language, which did not seem to be the case in Britain at that time.
Then I found that the counterpart to that creativity was an awful
stuffiness about English in the University.

I failed their "Grammar" test, yet was told that the Free-Writing piece
was the best they had ever seen (as far as I remember it was about
Samuel Boswell's sexual peccadillos, written in highly colourful and metaphorical language).

However, the exultation of FORM over FUNCTION and CONTENT is something
that has happened repeatedly in institutions and societies; in
religious bodies, educational bodies and so on.

I, for one, love that aspect of Runtime Revolution that allows for an extremely high level of flexibility.

------------------------------------

Sivakatirswami wrote:

"This one just pushed my buttons...."

I apologise, Sivakatirswami, if I 'pushed your buttons'; that was far
from my intention.

Your comments about profs at Carbondale is generally true, and may
be extended to other educational institutions.

As an admirer of A.S.Neill, Bryn Purdey, and Kurt Hahn, I would much
prefer blowing all educational institutions up and returning to some
sort of more anarchistic method for educating people. However, the
nature of the societies we live in seems to mitigate against that.

I am, myself, in an ambivalent situation, having to teach EFL students
who either cannot cope, or are not prepared to put up with a long
disquisition about the subjectivity of what constitutes a paragraph.

HOWEVER, were RR to include 'PARAGRAPH' in its lexicon of terms that would
have to involve some sort of relatively rigid definition.

---------------------------

Back to my "Applescript in a Nutshell" (which is an endlessly tedious 
book):

page 430:

"A paragraph object is a chunk of text that is terminated by a new line or paragraph character."

Can anybody tell me what a 'paragraph character" would be?

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Dec 22 04:45:16 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:45:16 +0100
Subject: the grabbedObject?
In-Reply-To: <48A0FE77-E564-420D-A161-EB4A10B8EFB5@cruzio.com>
References: <48A0FE77-E564-420D-A161-EB4A10B8EFB5@cruzio.com>
Message-ID: <DA2E960D-6373-4303-9FCD-FD801A3E8DBD@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonjour Mark,

Actually, I think you wrote the answer to your question already :-)

on mouseDown -- in the button's script
   set the GrabbedObject of this cd to the long ID of me
   grab me
end mouseDown
--------------------------------------------
on mouseEnter -- in a field's script
   set the backColor of (the GrabbedObject of this cd) to <color>
   set the opaque of (the GrabbedObject of this cd) to true
end mouseEnter
--------------------------------------------
on mouseLeave
   set the opaque of (the GrabbedObject of this cd) to false
end mouseLeave

Custom properties are really useful ;-)

Le 22 d?c. 08 ? 06:36, Mark Swindell a ?crit :

> I've got a transparent button.  I'm grabbing it.  When the button  
> goes over a white field I want its color to change to black, when  
> it moves over a green field I want it to change to yellow.
>
> Is there a way to refer to such an object from within a script so that
>
> on mouseEnter
> set the textColor of the grabbedObject to "yellow"
> end mouseEnter
>
> Currently I have it change color on mouseUp based on whether the  
> loc of "me" (the grabbedButton) is within the rect of field "white"  
> or field "yellow" but it's not what I want.



Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From rev at armbase.com  Mon Dec 22 06:48:32 2008
From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:48:32 +0000
Subject: post about GLx2
In-Reply-To: <97B5EEFA-18BD-4F7E-B5ED-92280B7D02A8@me.com>
References: <5DC02887-FF52-4EEF-9889-4A2DA9AF6C6C@pacifier.com>
	<97B5EEFA-18BD-4F7E-B5ED-92280B7D02A8@me.com>
Message-ID: <494F7E90.9030709@armbase.com>

Jerry Daniels wrote:
> JB,
>
> It seems I had not upgraded to the latest Rev beta when I spoke of no 
> incompatibilities with GLX2 and the latest Rev Beta. It appears I 
> spoke too quickly.

Surely "your" software has only to be compatible with the latest 
"stable" release. Which it is. RevBeta is, I assume Beta. :-)

Best regards
Bob



From jerry.daniels at me.com  Mon Dec 22 08:53:28 2008
From: jerry.daniels at me.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:53:28 -0600
Subject: post about GLx2
In-Reply-To: <494F7E90.9030709@armbase.com>
References: <5DC02887-FF52-4EEF-9889-4A2DA9AF6C6C@pacifier.com>
	<97B5EEFA-18BD-4F7E-B5ED-92280B7D02A8@me.com>
	<494F7E90.9030709@armbase.com>
Message-ID: <2DB358B6-11D6-4CFF-A2E1-B061CB8AE360@me.com>

Bob,

I have to say, I LIKE the way you think. And, of course, you are  
right. GLX2 doesn't have to work with a Rev beta.

Since I use GLX2 and like to use the latest beta of Rev, I expect GLX2  
will soon work with the latest Rev beta.

But, isn't is almost Christmas? Shouldn't I be chill-laxing? Nah.

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Daniels & Mara, Inc.
Makers of GLX2
http://www.glx2.com

On Dec 22, 2008, at 5:48 AM, Bob Hartley wrote:

> Jerry Daniels wrote:
>> JB,
>>
>> It seems I had not upgraded to the latest Rev beta when I spoke of  
>> no incompatibilities with GLX2 and the latest Rev Beta. It appears  
>> I spoke too quickly.
>
> Surely "your" software has only to be compatible with the latest  
> "stable" release. Which it is. RevBeta is, I assume Beta. :-)
>
> Best regards
> Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From sundown at pacifier.com  Mon Dec 22 09:04:27 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 06:04:27 -0800
Subject: post about GLx2
In-Reply-To: <2DB358B6-11D6-4CFF-A2E1-B061CB8AE360@me.com>
References: <5DC02887-FF52-4EEF-9889-4A2DA9AF6C6C@pacifier.com>
	<97B5EEFA-18BD-4F7E-B5ED-92280B7D02A8@me.com>
	<494F7E90.9030709@armbase.com>
	<2DB358B6-11D6-4CFF-A2E1-B061CB8AE360@me.com>
Message-ID: <514C2801-C907-40DB-A8F6-9FBCE9D2C574@pacifier.com>

Well don't worry about fixing it for me I went to using 3.0 gm  
instead of the Rev beta.
My point of posting it doesn't work is because a lot of developers  
use GLX2 script
editor and I thought it would be fair to let them know in advance if  
they want to use
the beta they might not be able to use GLX2.

My decision was to sacrifice testing the new software for using GLX2  
and when it
gets resolved I will consider trying the Rev beta.  I guess if that  
becomes a problem
with Rev they can provide you some details before the beta is  
released so you can
try to get problems solved and GLX2 users will test their beta.

-=>JB<=-


On Dec 22, 2008, at 5:53 AM, Jerry Daniels wrote:

> Bob,
>
> I have to say, I LIKE the way you think. And, of course, you are  
> right. GLX2 doesn't have to work with a Rev beta.
>
> Since I use GLX2 and like to use the latest beta of Rev, I expect  
> GLX2 will soon work with the latest Rev beta.
>
> But, isn't is almost Christmas? Shouldn't I be chill-laxing? Nah.
>
> Best,
>
> Jerry Daniels
>
> Daniels & Mara, Inc.
> Makers of GLX2
> http://www.glx2.com
>
> On Dec 22, 2008, at 5:48 AM, Bob Hartley wrote:
>
>> Jerry Daniels wrote:
>>> JB,
>>>
>>> It seems I had not upgraded to the latest Rev beta when I spoke  
>>> of no incompatibilities with GLX2 and the latest Rev Beta. It  
>>> appears I spoke too quickly.
>>
>> Surely "your" software has only to be compatible with the latest  
>> "stable" release. Which it is. RevBeta is, I assume Beta. :-)
>>
>> Best regards
>> Bob
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jerry.daniels at me.com  Mon Dec 22 09:15:34 2008
From: jerry.daniels at me.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 08:15:34 -0600
Subject: post about GLx2
In-Reply-To: <514C2801-C907-40DB-A8F6-9FBCE9D2C574@pacifier.com>
References: <5DC02887-FF52-4EEF-9889-4A2DA9AF6C6C@pacifier.com>
	<97B5EEFA-18BD-4F7E-B5ED-92280B7D02A8@me.com>
	<494F7E90.9030709@armbase.com>
	<2DB358B6-11D6-4CFF-A2E1-B061CB8AE360@me.com>
	<514C2801-C907-40DB-A8F6-9FBCE9D2C574@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <35502B1B-D48B-4F85-8FD0-520CDC777DCB@me.com>

JB,

I have contacted the Rev team and let them know we're having problems  
with the latest beta.

I would be incredibly cool if we received a tech briefing from Runrev  
prior to release of a new version of Rev that has the potential to  
break GLX2. But, alas.

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Daniels & Mara, Inc.
Makers of GLX2
http://www.glx2.com


On Dec 22, 2008, at 8:04 AM, -= JB =- wrote:

> I guess if that becomes a problem
> with Rev they can provide you some details before the beta is  
> released so you can
> try to get problems solved and GLX2 users will test their beta.



From sundown at pacifier.com  Mon Dec 22 09:20:35 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 06:20:35 -0800
Subject: post about GLx2
In-Reply-To: <35502B1B-D48B-4F85-8FD0-520CDC777DCB@me.com>
References: <5DC02887-FF52-4EEF-9889-4A2DA9AF6C6C@pacifier.com>
	<97B5EEFA-18BD-4F7E-B5ED-92280B7D02A8@me.com>
	<494F7E90.9030709@armbase.com>
	<2DB358B6-11D6-4CFF-A2E1-B061CB8AE360@me.com>
	<514C2801-C907-40DB-A8F6-9FBCE9D2C574@pacifier.com>
	<35502B1B-D48B-4F85-8FD0-520CDC777DCB@me.com>
Message-ID: <097C384A-3A0D-438C-82CF-DACE900F9181@pacifier.com>

We can only hope if the management can't hear they still might be  
able to read.

-=>JB<=-


On Dec 22, 2008, at 6:15 AM, Jerry Daniels wrote:

> JB,
>
> I have contacted the Rev team and let them know we're having  
> problems with the latest beta.
>
> I would be incredibly cool if we received a tech briefing from  
> Runrev prior to release of a new version of Rev that has the  
> potential to break GLX2. But, alas.
>
> Best,
>
> Jerry Daniels
>
> Daniels & Mara, Inc.
> Makers of GLX2
> http://www.glx2.com
>
>
> On Dec 22, 2008, at 8:04 AM, -= JB =- wrote:
>
>> I guess if that becomes a problem
>> with Rev they can provide you some details before the beta is  
>> released so you can
>> try to get problems solved and GLX2 users will test their beta.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From bmmeili at swissonline.ch  Mon Dec 22 09:25:27 2008
From: bmmeili at swissonline.ch (Martin Meili)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:25:27 +0100
Subject: Question about revBrowser
Message-ID: <ADE5CFDF-CFF3-4FEC-9073-73A40C91D404@swissonline.ch>

Hi everbody
I've got a question about revBrowser.

If I want to navigate to a URL there is no problem as long as this  
site is on the first level of different directories, e.g. "http:// 
www.schularena.com". This URL will also appear in my textfield "url".

But as soon as there is a subdirectory which is opened in a second  
window, the second part of the url  ("/franzoesisch/envol/envol7/ 
unite3/mettre_table.htm") is not displayed in my textfield "url" and  
so I'm not able to navigate to  the entire url "http:// 
www.schularena.com/franzoesisch/envol/envol7/unite3/mettre_table.htm".

Once again the two urls:
1.) http://www.schularena.com
2.) http://www.schularena.com/franzoesisch/envol/envol7/unite3/ 
mettre_table.htm

What I want to do is to catch the second URL in order to store it in  
a textfield besides of other URLs. Through this the user should be  
able to navigate to any of the in the textfield displayed urls by a  
simple click on one of these lines.

Anybody there who can help me?

Cheers
Martin

From rev at armbase.com  Mon Dec 22 09:29:52 2008
From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:29:52 +0000
Subject: post about GLx2
In-Reply-To: <097C384A-3A0D-438C-82CF-DACE900F9181@pacifier.com>
References: <5DC02887-FF52-4EEF-9889-4A2DA9AF6C6C@pacifier.com>	<97B5EEFA-18BD-4F7E-B5ED-92280B7D02A8@me.com>	<494F7E90.9030709@armbase.com>	<2DB358B6-11D6-4CFF-A2E1-B061CB8AE360@me.com>	<514C2801-C907-40DB-A8F6-9FBCE9D2C574@pacifier.com>	<35502B1B-D48B-4F85-8FD0-520CDC777DCB@me.com>
	<097C384A-3A0D-438C-82CF-DACE900F9181@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <494FA460.3090203@armbase.com>

-= JB =- wrote:
> We can only hope if the management can't hear they still might be able 
> to read.
>
> -=>JB<=-
>
Well Heather is working today. :-)

Me........ I'm off.... I'm the only one here today and I'm going home 
early; back on the 5th of Jan. :-)

All the best
Bob


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 22 10:11:36 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:11:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: the grabbedObject?
Message-ID: <165260.96086.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I started with some 'goofy' experiments:

1. this script was in the object to be grabbed

on mouseDown
  grab me
  set the textColor of me to "yellow"
  set the backGroundColor of me to "black"
end mouseDown

on mouseUp
  set the textColor of me to "black"
  set the backGroundColor of me to "pink"
end mouseUp

interestingly enough the 'set the backGroundColor of me to "black"'
didn't work because the background went blue, i.e. the opposite of
the yellow text (??????).

moving right along to the coloured fields:

2. 

on mouseDown
  grab me
end mouseDown

on mouseMove 
    on mouseMove 
    if within (fld "fGREEN", the mouseloc) then 
    set the textColor of me to "yellow"
  else
    if within (fld "fWHITE", the mouseloc) then 
    set the textColor of me to "black"
  else
    set the backColor of me to empty
  end if
  end if
end mouseMove

 worked a charm!

Have a look at "Grabbed Object.rev" at revOnline under 'Richmond'.

AND, as it works, what exactly is your objection to 'loc' ?

By using mouseMove one avoids having to wait for mouseUp; so the
button changes in mid-drag, so to speak.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.


____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 22 10:14:11 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:14:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: the grabbedObject?
Message-ID: <207880.46503.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

WOOPS!  meant to put:

on mouseDown
  grab me
end mouseDown

on mouseMove  
    if within (fld "fGREEN", the mouseloc) then 
    set the textColor of me to "yellow"
  else
    if within (fld "fWHITE", the mouseloc) then 
    set the textColor of me to "black"
  else
    set the backColor of me to empty
  end if
  end if
end mouseMove

with the double mouseMove at the start nothing would 'work a charm';
merely throw a wobbly!

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From gbrackett at luceatlux.com  Mon Dec 22 10:14:07 2008
From: gbrackett at luceatlux.com (George C Brackett)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:14:07 -0500
Subject: OT2: The 'realness' of languages
Message-ID: <50CBC776-182D-4494-B784-855FB229D32F@luceatlux.com>

I'm wondering if this has happened to you:

I recently was talking with a prospective client about extending a  
program I wrote in Revolution for one school (the charter high school  
I helped found) to work with a group of schools sharing common  
interests.  My program has worked well on two platforms for four years  
(we're OS-agnostic), storing data on student behavior on a MySQL  
database accessed via internet, and displaying the data in a variety  
of ways (numeric, graphical, on the web) for teachers, students,  
families, and administrators.  Rev made it easy to write the program  
initially and to modify it as the requirements became clearer with use.

While demonstrating the program, the prospective client (who had made  
it clear to me that she had been involved with many software  
development projects before) asked what the program was written in.   
After I told her I used Revolution for its rapid-development and cross- 
platform capabilities, a subtle change occurred in the conversation.   
She began talking about how I might help with the design, but that of  
course when the design was finished a software firm would take over  
the development (presumably in some 'real' language like C).  I didn't  
bother to tell her I COULD write in C, Java, PERL, PHP and so on,  
because it would be extraordinarily painful to do so.

Has anyone else run into this issue?  Do you dodge the 'what is it  
written in' question?  How can we raise the profile of Revolution as a  
'real' language?  (Never mind what religion it might resemble!)

George



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Dec 22 10:37:28 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 09:37:28 -0600
Subject: [ANN][EN][FR] ListMagic 1.0 by So Smart Software
In-Reply-To: <CC865BFA-B6B2-46B6-BB22-769905FF009C@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <C5751058.18462%kray@sonsothunder.com>

> I'm happy to announce that ListMagic 1.0 is available:

Very cool, Eric! I really appreciate the column reorganization and multiple
sorting...  VERY nice!

Keep up the great work!


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Dec 22 11:21:52 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:21:52 -0600
Subject: the grabbedObject?
In-Reply-To: <48A0FE77-E564-420D-A161-EB4A10B8EFB5@cruzio.com>
References: <48A0FE77-E564-420D-A161-EB4A10B8EFB5@cruzio.com>
Message-ID: <494FBEA0.2070702@hyperactivesw.com>

Mark Swindell wrote:
> I've got a transparent button.  I'm grabbing it.  When the button goes 
> over a white field I want its color to change to black, when it moves 
> over a green field I want it to change to yellow.

I can never remember what all the inks do without experimenting, but I 
think there is one that does exactly what you describe -- reverses the 
color. On mousedown, set the ink, on mouseup set the ink back to 
"srcCopy" (the default ink.) If you do that, you won't have to poll 
fields or keep track of anything.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Dec 22 11:22:51 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 08:22:51 -0800
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
Message-ID: <494FBEDB.9010700@fourthworld.com>

I'm not sure if it helps or hinders the conversation to note that, to
the best of my knowledge, the term "xTalk" was coined by none other than
Scott Raney, inventor of MetaCard.

At the time, HyperTalkers preferred the term "HyperTalk", and
SuperTalkers preferred "SuperTalk", but Dr. Raney showed the generosity
to bring into common usage a term which encompasses them all.

In the mid-90s he created the xTalk mailing list, a discusssion forum
whose aim was to provide a venue for the various xTalk vendors to
standardize syntax additions.  This is not unlike the talks that had
once been proposed by Charlie Jackson (Silicon Beach Software, publisher
of SuperCard at the time) and Jean Louis Gassee (Apple VP of technology
at the time) to standardize what were then called "HyperTalk dialects".

With both the xTalk list and the earlier Silicon Beach talks, when it
actually came time to start work Apple refused to participate.

In fact, with the xTalk list pretty much every vendor refused to
participate except Doug Simons of Thoughtful Software, inventor of
SenseTalk, and Dr. Raney himself.  All were sent invitations; only one
showed up at the party.

I think it speaks well of the audience for these tools that the word
"xTalk" has caught on: it seems the users of these tools have a broader
vision for what the future can be than their old vendors did; the users 
are still with us even when the vendor is not.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Dec 22 11:23:37 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:23:37 -0600
Subject: Hammering on about Paragraphs
In-Reply-To: <294107.89462.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <294107.89462.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <494FBF09.4050501@hyperactivesw.com>

Richmond Mathewson wrote:
> 
> Back to my "Applescript in a Nutshell" (which is an endlessly tedious 
> book):
> 
> page 430:
> 
> "A paragraph object is a chunk of text that is terminated by a new line or paragraph character."
> 
> Can anybody tell me what a 'paragraph character" would be?

In Rev, as I mentioned, it's a carriage return. Ditto for all word 
processing apps.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 22 11:40:57 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 08:40:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: the grabbedObject?
Message-ID: <165155.87907.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

JLG wrote:

"I can never remember what all the inks do without experimenting, but I 
think there is one that does exactly what you describe -- reverses the 
color."

reverse  reverses everything (strangely logical)

and

srcCopy sets things back to their initial state

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From randall at randallreetz.com  Mon Dec 22 12:05:29 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Lee Reetz)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 09:05:29 -0800
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
In-Reply-To: <D3E64119-B33C-4FA1-ADB2-53937796C0AB@qldlearning.com>
References: <20081221230117.ZCJJ9346.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>
	<D3E64119-B33C-4FA1-ADB2-53937796C0AB@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <9BF517FB-08A7-4071-BABF-B974B41FCB60@randallreetz.com>


On Dec 21, 2008, at 10:07 PM, Brian Yennie wrote:

> There's nothing irresponsible about it, because you are the only  
> one I see stirring up some sort of arbitrary taxonomic discussion.  
> This thread started as a light-hearted discussion of an article  
> comparing programming languages to religions. Someone dared call  
> Revolution by its name, and you jumped in on an xTalk rant.

This is not true.  You can call Revolution by its name all day  
long... in reference to the product.  But if you are setting up a  
comparison between major categories of languages, Rev's scripting  
language certainly doesn't rank its own spot along side the likes of  
C, Lisp, and SmallTalk.

As I said, there are important aspects of the Revolution product that  
ARE unique... the use and GUI centered IDE, the multi-platform  
develop and publish flexibility, the viability of the user community  
and this online support group, the stability of the company and the  
rapidity and reliability of the pace of version development cycle,  
the constant evolution of the product in lockstep with platform  
evolution, etc.  But the subject was the scripting language itself.

If I go to amazon to purchase a programming system, I will ask for a  
product by name.  If I am comparing language families it would be  
ridiculous to list Rev next to C.  If I was to mention Rev, I would  
have to then refer to CodeWarrior and such instead of C.

xTalk is to C as Revolution is to CodeWarrior.

My original post was not in direct relation to this silly religion  
thread.  The religion thread is a sub-thread to a larger discussion  
about what to call the scripting language within the Revolution product.

In this larger discussion, I saw a disturbing lack of historical and  
genealogical reference to the origin of the language upon which Rev  
is based.  Again, there is much about Rev that is unique within the  
xTalk development tool category... the scripting language itself is  
not significantly unique to this same degree.  In point of fact, it  
is upon the strength of this borrowed (event driven, message passing,  
object centered, english syntax) language that Rev is based.

That is how I describe Rev when I am asked.  There are better and  
worse IDEs in every language category.  For many reasons, Rev is one  
of the best in the xTalk category.  But what really makes Rev great  
is the same thing that makes SuperCard great... the friendly  
underlying xTalk language and simple object hierarchy within which it  
is situated.

In my opinion, the best way to brag up the Rev product is to call out  
its strengths.  Naming Rev's scripting language anything that does  
not directly reference this key attribute (xTalk) would ignore the  
goodwill inherent in the structure and heritage that was  
intentionally designed into the original SmallTalk and HyperTalk  
languages and the philosophy that drove those original design decisions.

As good as the Rev IDE is, if you wrapped it around C instead of  
xTalk, you would be left with C... most of us would abandon the  
product immediately.  Know what I mean?

Randall

Randall



From randall at randallreetz.com  Mon Dec 22 12:06:35 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Reetz)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 09:06:35 -0800
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
Message-ID: <20081222170932.CTST9346.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>

Exactly.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: 12/22/2008 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] If programming languages were religions...

I'm not sure if it helps or hinders the conversation to note that, to
the best of my knowledge, the term "xTalk" was coined by none other than
Scott Raney, inventor of MetaCard.

At the time, HyperTalkers preferred the term "HyperTalk", and
SuperTalkers preferred "SuperTalk", but Dr. Raney showed the generosity
to bring into common usage a term which encompasses them all.

In the mid-90s he created the xTalk mailing list, a discusssion forum
whose aim was to provide a venue for the various xTalk vendors to
standardize syntax additions.  This is not unlike the talks that had
once been proposed by Charlie Jackson (Silicon Beach Software, publisher
of SuperCard at the time) and Jean Louis Gassee (Apple VP of technology
at the time) to standardize what were then called "HyperTalk dialects".

With both the xTalk list and the earlier Silicon Beach talks, when it
actually came time to start work Apple refused to participate.

In fact, with the xTalk list pretty much every vendor refused to
participate except Doug Simons of Thoughtful Software, inventor of
SenseTalk, and Dr. Raney himself.  All were sent invitations; only one
showed up at the party.

I think it speaks well of the audience for these tools that the word
"xTalk" has caught on: it seems the users of these tools have a broader
vision for what the future can be than their old vendors did; the users 
are still with us even when the vendor is not.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Mon Dec 22 12:29:05 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 09:29:05 -0800
Subject: OT2: The 'realness' of languages
In-Reply-To: <50CBC776-182D-4494-B784-855FB229D32F@luceatlux.com>
References: <50CBC776-182D-4494-B784-855FB229D32F@luceatlux.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c5757c826fd3@[192.168.1.105]>

>
>After I told her I used Revolution for its rapid-development and 
>cross-platform capabilities, a subtle change occurred in the 
>conversation.
>She began talking about how I might help with the design, but that 
>of course when the design was finished a software firm would take 
>over the development (presumably in some 'real' language like C).  I 
>didn't bother to tell her I COULD write in C, Java, PERL, PHP and so 
>on, because it would be extraordinarily painful to do so.

Why not tell her that then, if you felt you lost anyway? The only 
answer to fight the myths is education.

This is similar to the 'loudness wars' in the music business, where 
untrained amateur 'mastering' engineers and forced professionals are 
making LOUD CDs, even though they know they're trampling the dynamics 
and it makes the music worse.  Loud CDs use 'hypercompression' - not 
data compression but audio compression in the digital realm, which is 
at first interesting but eventually tedious to listen to. (think 
Ricky Martin and Britany for extremes)
The myth is that these records sound 'better' on the radio, but they 
really don't. But the myth really goes back to the vinyl days, that 
had limitations: if it was cut too soft it would be enveloped in 
noise. On the other hand there was a limit to how much time you could 
put on a disc. Louder records were shorter in length, quieter were 
longer.  That's why Miles Davis's 'In A Silent Way' is so quiet. 
Almost an hour playing time!

>
>Has anyone else run into this issue?  Do you dodge the 'what is it 
>written in' question?  How can we raise the profile of Revolution as 
>a 'real' language?  (Never mind what religion it might resemble!)
>
>George
>

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -





From mdswindell at cruzio.com  Mon Dec 22 12:33:30 2008
From: mdswindell at cruzio.com (Mark Swindell)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 09:33:30 -0800
Subject: the grabbedObject?
In-Reply-To: <DA2E960D-6373-4303-9FCD-FD801A3E8DBD@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <48A0FE77-E564-420D-A161-EB4A10B8EFB5@cruzio.com>
	<DA2E960D-6373-4303-9FCD-FD801A3E8DBD@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <C394BD48-175C-4FA7-A600-F3ED9EE23D7B@cruzio.com>

Eric, Richmond,

Merci.  Custom properties are indeed one of the handiest features of  
Rev.  (The grabbedObject ought to be a revProp, I think, but oh well.)

Unfortunately it appears that mouseEnter messages do not fire while an  
object is being dragged?  Using the scenario you propose (essentially  
what I wanted to do) I get no textColor change until I drop the  
object, leave the field, and then mouse back in.  Does "grab" stop  
certain messages from being passed? (Message watcher would indicate  
that it does.)

On the other hand, Richmonds solution works (mouseMove fires) but this  
is being sent constantly while the letter is being grabbed/dragged  
around, whereas it would seem simpler to set the color upon entrance  
to a new field and be done with it.

Thanks,
Mark

On Dec 22, 2008, at 1:45 AM, Eric Chatonet wrote:

> Bonjour Mark,
>
> Actually, I think you wrote the answer to your question already :-)
>
> on mouseDown -- in the button's script
>  set the GrabbedObject of this cd to the long ID of me
>  grab me
> end mouseDown
> --------------------------------------------
> on mouseEnter -- in a field's script
>  set the backColor of (the GrabbedObject of this cd) to <color>
>  set the opaque of (the GrabbedObject of this cd) to true
> end mouseEnter
> --------------------------------------------
> on mouseLeave
>  set the opaque of (the GrabbedObject of this cd) to false
> end mouseLeave
>
> Custom properties are really useful ;-)
>
> Le 22 d?c. 08 ? 06:36, Mark Swindell a ?crit :
>
>> I've got a transparent button.  I'm grabbing it.  When the button  
>> goes over a white field I want its color to change to black, when  
>> it moves over a green field I want it to change to yellow.
>>
>> Is there a way to refer to such an object from within a script so  
>> that
>>
>> on mouseEnter
>> set the textColor of the grabbedObject to "yellow"
>> end mouseEnter
>>
>> Currently I have it change color on mouseUp based on whether the  
>> loc of "me" (the grabbedButton) is within the rect of field "white"  
>> or field "yellow" but it's not what I want.
>
>
>
> Best regards from Paris,
> Eric Chatonet.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From viktoras at ekoinf.net  Mon Dec 22 12:46:21 2008
From: viktoras at ekoinf.net (viktoras didziulis)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 19:46:21 +0200
Subject: OT2: The 'realness' of languages
In-Reply-To: <50CBC776-182D-4494-B784-855FB229D32F@luceatlux.com>
References: <50CBC776-182D-4494-B784-855FB229D32F@luceatlux.com>
Message-ID: <494FD26D.4030208@ekoinf.net>

once Revolution collects the critical mass of developers and "well 
known" cross platform software products created with it, the transition 
should happen automagically. In general the situation is such that we 
have more than 50 other languages standing in front of Revolution if we 
sort them by popularity (www.tiobe.com), so the statistics is not on our 
side unless Revolution Ltd introduces something so valuable, so 
efficient, so universal (see list below) that everyone would not resist 
getting a copy of Rev...


I guess some people who explore potential of Revolution for their 
projects might dislike the following issues:
1) lack of hardware accelerated 3D engine (what if I wish to add a 
decent 3D visualization feature into my software, I will be stuck if I 
use Revolution..)
2) objects limited to GUI (I will not be able to create my own invisible 
object with its properties and use it in consistent manner like other 
objects of Revolution. e.g. set the height of object "myCube" or get the 
mass of object "Planet"). I am not speaking about complicated OOP here, 
just about lacking possibility to create simple non-GUI objects, not 
resorting to workarounds.
3) pixel by pixel image manipulation is slow, in Java one can create 
smooth animations by manipulating individual pixels in real-time, in 
Revolution it is still too slow.
4) can I easily use  library written in C/C++ ? No... I need to hire a 
C/C++ programmer to write a wrapper. Or C/C++/Revolution programmer 
which is yet more difficult to find. This inhibits the spread of 
Revolution. For example REXX language has The Generic Call Interface 
(GCI, http://rexx-gci.sourceforge.net/) which allows a REXX-only 
solution for calling external function packages without a wrapper 
library. Many would like a thing like this for Revolution.
5) syntax, well, at least Director folks say that popularity of Lingo 
increased once they introduced alternative dot syntax which requires 
less typing.

So, they might consider choosing Revolution if they are 100% sure they 
will never ever need smooth 3D graphics, direct image manipulation, own 
objects, external libraries and feel comfortable with its syntax. I 
still believe we will have those things in 5 years or so...

All the best!
Viktoras

George C Brackett wrote:
> I'm wondering if this has happened to you:
>
> I recently was talking with a prospective client about extending a 
> program I wrote in Revolution for one school (the charter high school 
> I helped found) to work with a group of schools sharing common 
> interests.  My program has worked well on two platforms for four years 
> (we're OS-agnostic), storing data on student behavior on a MySQL 
> database accessed via internet, and displaying the data in a variety 
> of ways (numeric, graphical, on the web) for teachers, students, 
> families, and administrators.  Rev made it easy to write the program 
> initially and to modify it as the requirements became clearer with use.
>
> While demonstrating the program, the prospective client (who had made 
> it clear to me that she had been involved with many software 
> development projects before) asked what the program was written in.  
> After I told her I used Revolution for its rapid-development and 
> cross-platform capabilities, a subtle change occurred in the 
> conversation.  She began talking about how I might help with the 
> design, but that of course when the design was finished a software 
> firm would take over the development (presumably in some 'real' 
> language like C).  I didn't bother to tell her I COULD write in C, 
> Java, PERL, PHP and so on, because it would be extraord inarily 
> painful to do so.
>
> Has anyone else run into this issue?  Do you dodge the 'what is it 
> written in' question?  How can we raise the profile of Revolution as a 
> 'real' language?  (Never mind what religion it might resemble!)
>
> George
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Mon Dec 22 12:52:48 2008
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:52:48 +0000
Subject: Accessing MS SQL Server from Revolution on Linux
Message-ID: <494FD3F0.3030502@cogapp.com>

As the title says... I want to access Microsoft SQL Server databases, from a 
Revolution app, running on Windows.  I've done this for years on Mac and 
Windows, via ODBC; on Windows always using Microsoft's bundled ODBC drivers, 
on Mac using variously ones from OpenLink and Actual.

Is anyone currently doing this?  Can you recommend ODBC drivers?  I've heard 
bad things about ODBC on Linux, am I entering a world of pain?  Any tips, 
suggestions, or warnings you can give me?

TIA,

- Ben



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Dec 22 12:55:06 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:55:06 +0100
Subject: the grabbedObject?
In-Reply-To: <C394BD48-175C-4FA7-A600-F3ED9EE23D7B@cruzio.com>
References: <48A0FE77-E564-420D-A161-EB4A10B8EFB5@cruzio.com>
	<DA2E960D-6373-4303-9FCD-FD801A3E8DBD@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<C394BD48-175C-4FA7-A600-F3ED9EE23D7B@cruzio.com>
Message-ID: <9A9F82AE-2CE5-40A4-B394-7E32F62FE17E@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonsoir Mark,

Sorry, I did not think of that :-(
So a mouseMove solution seems the way to go:
You could just test if color has been changed or not and just do it  
if needed.
Anyway, mouseMove is sent repeatedly in all cases.
You could also use a pending message of your own but I don't think it  
would help in this case.

Le 22 d?c. 08 ? 18:33, Mark Swindell a ?crit :

> Eric, Richmond,
>
> Merci.  Custom properties are indeed one of the handiest features  
> of Rev.  (The grabbedObject ought to be a revProp, I think, but oh  
> well.)
>
> Unfortunately it appears that mouseEnter messages do not fire while  
> an object is being dragged?  Using the scenario you propose  
> (essentially what I wanted to do) I get no textColor change until I  
> drop the object, leave the field, and then mouse back in.  Does  
> "grab" stop certain messages from being passed? (Message watcher  
> would indicate that it does.)
>
> On the other hand, Richmonds solution works (mouseMove fires) but  
> this is being sent constantly while the letter is being grabbed/ 
> dragged around, whereas it would seem simpler to set the color upon  
> entrance to a new field and be done with it.
>
> Thanks,
> Mark

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From mdswindell at cruzio.com  Mon Dec 22 12:56:12 2008
From: mdswindell at cruzio.com (Mark Swindell)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 09:56:12 -0800
Subject: the grabbedObject?
In-Reply-To: <165260.96086.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <165260.96086.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <858D4543-6694-4A10-A980-FF58E21E58D7@cruzio.com>


On Dec 22, 2008, at 7:11 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>
>
> AND, as it works, what exactly is your objection to 'loc' ?

"Currently I have it change color on mouseUp based on whether the loc  
of "me" (the grabbedButton) is within the rect of field "white" or  
field "yellow" but it's not what I want."

No objection to "loc."  I objected to waiting for mouseUp to change  
the color.  Your solution does work, though it is setting the color  
constantly while being moved, which seems redundant.

Thanks,

Mark


From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Mon Dec 22 13:02:15 2008
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:02:15 +0000
Subject: Flash + RevBrowser + Mac Problems
In-Reply-To: <C571A09B.3E593%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <C571A09B.3E593%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <494FD627.7090509@cogapp.com>

Scott Rossi wrote:
> Has anyone on the list done much work with interactive Flash movies played
> within RevBrowser?
> 
> I have some Flash content that displays clickable products and runs great on
> Windows, but performance is terrible on OS X.  Clicks on the Flash content
> are intermittently unresponsive, and it seems the only way to trigger
> interactivity at all is to move the mouse outside the stack, and then back
> into the browser instance.  I not sure where to start to solve this issue
> because the same content/stack works as expected on Windows.

We've had some problems in this area recently, but perhaps not quite the same 
as yours.  We've been working with RevBrowser on OS X, for content that 
included some Flash elements.  Performance wasn't noticed as an issue, but 
interactivity, in particular dragging, was very difficult.  Where we had 
access to the source code, we found that recompiling in AS3 made a 
considerable difference; however we weren't able to fix all issues like this. 
  It seems that some ways that Flash/certain Flash movies detect mouse events 
don't work reliably under RevBrowser.

Other than compiling under AS3, if your work isn't already, I don't have 
anything to suggest; but it would certainly be good to build up some lore 
about this.

- Ben



From randall at randallreetz.com  Mon Dec 22 13:07:28 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Reetz)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:07:28 -0800
Subject: OT2: The 'realness' of languages
Message-ID: <20081222181025.PNHB26612.atlmtaow01.cingularme.com@Inbox>

I use xtalk IDEs because i do "rapid"(?) prototyping.  I dont expect my projects to be the finished market facing product.  On the other hand, i sure wish there was a way to automatically dump an xtalk project into java or C or even flash. 

Nobody expects an architect to build the building.  Nobody would want an architect to use a back hoe to design a building.  The real issue is efficiency of development.  If a person can do way more in an xtalk-man hour then (in some circumstances) a project can be built that would otherwise be too expensive to considder.  This is the sweetspot of the xtalk development market.  That rev provides cross platform distribution... That is the great leveler missing in many other rapid dev. tools.

Because xtalk is so english like, any good C or java programmer can do a line by line conversion without knowing xtalk itself.

randall
-----Original Message-----
From: "Stephen Barncard" <stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: 12/22/2008 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: OT2: The 'realness' of languages

>
>After I told her I used Revolution for its rapid-development and 
>cross-platform capabilities, a subtle change occurred in the 
>conversation.
>She began talking about how I might help with the design, but that 
>of course when the design was finished a software firm would take 
>over the development (presumably in some 'real' language like C).  I 
>didn't bother to tell her I COULD write in C, Java, PERL, PHP and so 
>on, because it would be extraordinarily painful to do so.

Why not tell her that then, if you felt you lost anyway? The only 
answer to fight the myths is education.

This is similar to the 'loudness wars' in the music business, where 
untrained amateur 'mastering' engineers and forced professionals are 
making LOUD CDs, even though they know they're trampling the dynamics 
and it makes the music worse.  Loud CDs use 'hypercompression' - not 
data compression but audio compression in the digital realm, which is 
at first interesting but eventually tedious to listen to. (think 
Ricky Martin and Britany for extremes)
The myth is that these records sound 'better' on the radio, but they 
really don't. But the myth really goes back to the vinyl days, that 
had limitations: if it was cut too soft it would be enveloped in 
noise. On the other hand there was a limit to how much time you could 
put on a disc. Louder records were shorter in length, quieter were 
longer.  That's why Miles Davis's 'In A Silent Way' is so quiet. 
Almost an hour playing time!

>
>Has anyone else run into this issue?  Do you dodge the 'what is it 
>written in' question?  How can we raise the profile of Revolution as 
>a 'real' language?  (Never mind what religion it might resemble!)
>
>George
>

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -



_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Mon Dec 22 13:13:49 2008
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:13:49 +0000
Subject: the grabbedObject?
In-Reply-To: <C394BD48-175C-4FA7-A600-F3ED9EE23D7B@cruzio.com>
References: <48A0FE77-E564-420D-A161-EB4A10B8EFB5@cruzio.com>	<DA2E960D-6373-4303-9FCD-FD801A3E8DBD@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<C394BD48-175C-4FA7-A600-F3ED9EE23D7B@cruzio.com>
Message-ID: <494FD8DD.7070102@cogapp.com>

Mark Swindell wrote:
> Unfortunately it appears that mouseEnter messages do not fire while an 
> object is being dragged? 

http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=6203

A bit of a PITA, IMHO

- Ben




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Dec 22 13:41:08 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:41:08 -0800
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
Message-ID: <494FDF44.4080603@fourthworld.com>

Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
> As I said, there are important aspects of the Revolution product that  
> ARE unique... the use and GUI centered IDE, the multi-platform  
> develop and publish flexibility, the viability of the user community  
> and this online support group, the stability of the company and the  
> rapidity and reliability of the pace of version development cycle,  
> the constant evolution of the product in lockstep with platform  
> evolution, etc.  But the subject was the scripting language itself.

While of course Revolution is just one implementation in the xTalk 
family of languages, its specific dialect at this point is probably 30% 
or even 40% or more unique, or at least distinct from the Mother Tongue, 
HyperTalk.

If we exclude all externals (since they were written in other languages) 
and look only at what's natively in the engine, it might even be the 
case that Rev has added as many new tokens as were in the entire 
HyperTalk 2.x language.

All tokens related to arrays, sockets, URLs, new forms of repeat, icons 
in ask and answer, scrollbars, color, blendlevels, images, groups, 
gradients, aliases, system color and folder pickers, 
compression/decompression, binary file I/O, binary operators, Unicode, 
window modes, mouseMove and other messages, buffer control, video 
playback, QTVR control, drag-and-drop, executionContexts and other 
debugging/logging info, script-local vars, animated GIFs, image export 
formats, screen shots, new date and time formats, backdrops, timers, 
serial I/O, audio recording, substacks, template objects, labels as 
distinct from names, and dozens of new properties for even buttons and 
fields, just to name a few - all unique to Rev.

And then there's a good number of tokens not in HC that Rev has adopted 
from other xTalks, like SC's frontScripts, backScripts, graphic objects, 
transfer modes, and the merge function, and OMO's libraryStack message, 
just to name a few, along with a new altID property to make such ports 
even easier.

If it appears all Rev brings to the table is multi-platform support and 
its IDE, that perception will change as one spends more time with the 
Rev Dictionary.  A LOT has been happening since the engine was born in '92.

I don't even use the Rev IDE nor its externals.  With just the core 
language in the engine, I simply couldn't go back to HC or even SC if I 
had to.  While we're all using xTalks, I've adopted a coding style that 
makes such extensive use of the expanded syntax and object model that I 
doubt much of what I do would run anywhere else.

Sure, Rev feels familiar to any xTalker.  I guess that's a good sign of 
how passionate Mark Waddingham is about maintaining the flavor of the 
language (he was once nearly willing to engage in fisticuffs with me in 
his defense of the language style <g>; I acquiesced, of course, since 
he's both younger and stronger than me and more importantly fighting 
with a greater sense of purpose).  But for all its familiarity, Rev is a 
brave new world among xTalks, one that has earned through the sweat of 
its many programmers a place of unique honor among the xTalk dialects.

True, Mark Lucas, SuperCard's lead programmer, is perhaps the greatest 
Mac programmer I've ever been privileged to know personally, and under 
his stewardship it's no surprise SuperCard has done as well as it has. 
But while Mr. Lucas may do the work of a ten men, not only does he have 
a stronger loathing of the Windows API than even myself, but he would 
also be among the first to note the challenges of doing this sort of 
work for multiple platforms.  Drag and drop, for example, is a complex 
API on OS X; add in Windows and Linux and the complexity grows 
geometrically.

For all the inspiration Rev has drawn from its lineage, the Rev engine 
is quite an achievement in its own right.  Browse through the Dictionary 
and you'll see what I mean.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From mdswindell at cruzio.com  Mon Dec 22 13:49:20 2008
From: mdswindell at cruzio.com (Mark Swindell)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:49:20 -0800
Subject: the grabbedObject?
In-Reply-To: <9A9F82AE-2CE5-40A4-B394-7E32F62FE17E@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <48A0FE77-E564-420D-A161-EB4A10B8EFB5@cruzio.com>
	<DA2E960D-6373-4303-9FCD-FD801A3E8DBD@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<C394BD48-175C-4FA7-A600-F3ED9EE23D7B@cruzio.com>
	<9A9F82AE-2CE5-40A4-B394-7E32F62FE17E@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <29E04BEC-4B79-47CA-A11A-3DAC19470DCA@cruzio.com>

Eric,
Does testing require less overhead than setting? Just curious.
Mark

On Dec 22, 2008, at 9:55 AM, Eric Chatonet wrote:

> Bonsoir Mark,
>
> Sorry, I did not think of that :-(
> So a mouseMove solution seems the way to go:
> You could just test if color has been changed or not and just do it  
> if needed.
> Anyway, mouseMove is sent repeatedly in all cases.
> You could also use a pending message of your own but I don't think  
> it would help in this case.
>
> Le 22 d?c. 08 ? 18:33, Mark Swindell a ?crit :
>
>> Eric, Richmond,
>>
>> Merci.  Custom properties are indeed one of the handiest features  
>> of Rev.  (The grabbedObject ought to be a revProp, I think, but oh  
>> well.)
>>
>> Unfortunately it appears that mouseEnter messages do not fire while  
>> an object is being dragged?  Using the scenario you propose  
>> (essentially what I wanted to do) I get no textColor change until I  
>> drop the object, leave the field, and then mouse back in.  Does  
>> "grab" stop certain messages from being passed? (Message watcher  
>> would indicate that it does.)
>>
>> On the other hand, Richmonds solution works (mouseMove fires) but  
>> this is being sent constantly while the letter is being grabbed/ 
>> dragged around, whereas it would seem simpler to set the color upon  
>> entrance to a new field and be done with it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mark
>
> Best regards from Paris,
> Eric Chatonet.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From randall at randallreetz.com  Mon Dec 22 13:59:53 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Lee Reetz)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:59:53 -0800
Subject: ... distribute in multiple languages?
Message-ID: <005D59A1-DED1-4B27-8AE8-83722C6D2F43@randallreetz.com>

The Rev web site 2008 Christmas special says:

"Supercharge your
databases, easily distribute
software in multiple
languages..."

I take it this use of the term "multiple languages" refers to natural  
languages (English, Spanish, Italian, Japanese, etc.)  and not  
computing languages (Java, C, Lisp, etc.)?

Anybody?

Randall

From gbrackett at luceatlux.com  Mon Dec 22 14:23:37 2008
From: gbrackett at luceatlux.com (George C Brackett)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:23:37 -0500
Subject: OT2: The 'realness' of languages
In-Reply-To: <20081222181025.PNHB26612.atlmtaow01.cingularme.com@Inbox>
References: <20081222181025.PNHB26612.atlmtaow01.cingularme.com@Inbox>
Message-ID: <BCBA591C-8F6B-46A4-AFFE-71691DBED9D8@luceatlux.com>

I too do 'rapid prototyping,' but I'm convinced that with Revolution  
I'm very much more productive than I ever was in the other languages  
I've used.  I'm curious, though, why you don't think Revolution is  
appropriate for 'the building' although it will do for 'the plan.'   
Frankly, the programs I write in Revolution are just as robust as the  
13 published  in educational software programs I wrote in languages  
varying from Applesoft Basic to Forth to various assembly languages to  
C to C++.  And I would far rather try to add a feature or fix a bug in  
Revolution than in those other languages!

My wife did point out the issue of maintenance, should I not be the  
maintainer (at 65, I should have a few years left though).  I agree  
with you that a programmer speaking another language should be able to  
do a conversion pretty easily.  But a client's concern about the  
possible need to convert is certainly legitimate.

Anyway, I'm happily prototyping in Revolution for a 'real' educational  
publisher, and they're happily playing with and learning from my 'not- 
ready-for-prime-time' prototypes, so the loss of the occasional client  
isn't an issue.  And as viktoras observed, Rev's capabilities are  
increasing all the time.  The advent of a Rev browser plugin will be  
particularly important for my work in education!

George

On Dec 22, 2008, at 1:07 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:

I use xtalk IDEs because i do "rapid"(?) prototyping.  I dont expect  
my projects to be the finished market facing product.  On the other  
hand, i sure wish there was a way to automatically dump an xtalk  
project into java or C or even flash.

Nobody expects an architect to build the building.  Nobody would want  
an architect to use a back hoe to design a building.  The real issue  
is efficiency of development.  If a person can do way more in an xtalk- 
man hour then (in some circumstances) a project can be built that  
would otherwise be too expensive to considder.  This is the sweetspot  
of the xtalk development market.  That rev provides cross platform  
distribution... That is the great leveler missing in many other rapid  
dev. tools.

Because xtalk is so english like, any good C or java programmer can do  
a line by line conversion without knowing xtalk itself.

randall
-----Original Message-----
From: "Stephen Barncard" <stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: 12/22/2008 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: OT2: The 'realness' of languages

>
> After I told her I used Revolution for its rapid-development and
> cross-platform capabilities, a subtle change occurred in the
> conversation.
> She began talking about how I might help with the design, but that
> of course when the design was finished a software firm would take
> over the development (presumably in some 'real' language like C).  I
> didn't bother to tell her I COULD write in C, Java, PERL, PHP and so
> on, because it would be extraordinarily painful to do so.

Why not tell her that then, if you felt you lost anyway? The only
answer to fight the myths is education.

This is similar to the 'loudness wars' in the music business, where
untrained amateur 'mastering' engineers and forced professionals are
making LOUD CDs, even though they know they're trampling the dynamics
and it makes the music worse.  Loud CDs use 'hypercompression' - not
data compression but audio compression in the digital realm, which is
at first interesting but eventually tedious to listen to. (think
Ricky Martin and Britany for extremes)
The myth is that these records sound 'better' on the radio, but they
really don't. But the myth really goes back to the vinyl days, that
had limitations: if it was cut too soft it would be enveloped in
noise. On the other hand there was a limit to how much time you could
put on a disc. Louder records were shorter in length, quieter were
longer.  That's why Miles Davis's 'In A Silent Way' is so quiet.
Almost an hour playing time!

>
> Has anyone else run into this issue?  Do you dodge the 'what is it
> written in' question?  How can we raise the profile of Revolution as
> a 'real' language?  (Never mind what religion it might resemble!)
>
> George
>

-- 


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -



_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Dec 22 14:40:44 2008
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:40:44 -0800
Subject: the grabbedObject?
In-Reply-To: <494FD8DD.7070102@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <C5752D3C.3E636%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Ben Rubinstein wrote:

>> Unfortunately it appears that mouseEnter messages do not fire while an
>> object is being dragged?
> 
> http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=6203
> 
> A bit of a PITA, IMHO

True, currently no messages are sent during grab.  I for one didn't know
that mouseMove is sent during grab -- this is great because one could do a
lot with this.  But Rev also has drag and drop commands/messages, and if you
just want to trap a few events, you can use your own dragging method.  A few
options are shown here (execute in your message box):

 go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/site_files/downloads/drag_sampler.rev"

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design




From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Mon Dec 22 14:55:06 2008
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:55:06 -0500
Subject: ... distribute in multiple languages?
In-Reply-To: <005D59A1-DED1-4B27-8AE8-83722C6D2F43@randallreetz.com>
Message-ID: <OF42BEC1F8.5313A831-ON85257527.006D6431-85257527.006D7A90@sealedair.com>

Yes.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Dec 22 14:55:29 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:55:29 -0800
Subject: OT2: The 'realness' of languages
Message-ID: <494FF0B1.4060504@fourthworld.com>

George C Brackett wrote:
...
> Do you dodge the 'what is it written in' question? 

Never. Full disclosure makes for informed decisions.

> How can we raise the profile of Revolution as a  
> 'real' language?

The same as with any issue managers face: specific measurable results.

I often refer to Rev as being similar to VB in terms of its productivity 
but with a much smaller and simpler install and which lets me target 
multiple platforms from a single code base.

For technically minded people, these articles sometimes help:

In Praise of Scripting:  Real Programming Pragmatism
<http://www.cse.wustl.edu/~loui/praiseieee.txt>

Scripting: Higher Level Programming for the 21st Century
<http://www.tcl.tk/doc/scripting.html>

For the less technically minded, I show them reviews of my products and 
others made with Rev.

Either way, the bottom line is the bottom line:  Ultimately the only 
thing that matters is delivering features to end users.  Everything else 
is at best secondary, or even not really relevant at all from a business 
perspective.

It boils down to: "How many features can they deliver to end-users in 
the same number of programmer hours?"

Have them try this simple exercise, using any language and any framework 
they like:

    1. Build an application that lets the user choose a folder
       of images and displays them in a slideshow, with Forward
       and Backward buttons.

    2. Then make builds for OS X, Windows, and Linux.

In Rev, this will take just a few minutes.  In many other languages, and 
certainly in C, this will take a few hours - for each platform.

If the proposed app in question doesn't deal with images that may not be 
the best test, but it's usually not hard to come up with a modest sample 
case representative of what an app needs to do that shows off Rev's 
unusually high productivity.

If they find a tool that lets them deliver more features at lower cost 
than using Rev, they'd be fools not to use it.

But for the business-minded manager, the corollary is also true. :)


Features are where money comes from.
Where money goes is programmer hours.
The difference between the two determine what kind of car the owner drives.

Either way they get a bicycle.  If they make a really bad choice, it's 
their only vehicle.  If they make a really good choice, they get to keep 
their Mercedes in the garage while they take a month off touring Europe 
on a high-end alloy frame. :)


The great thing about recessions is that they force managers to return 
to business basics.  While calculating ROI often becomes something of a 
lost art during good years, in lean times there is no choice but to put 
ROI at the center of operational decisions, where it arguably should 
have been all the time.

Work with them to establish productivity measurements relevant to their 
proposed software, and let the best tool win.

If it's Rev, you have an expanded scope of work approved.
If it's not, you have a new tool to report back to us here about.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 22 15:02:54 2008
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 12:02:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ... distribute in multiple languages?
In-Reply-To: <005D59A1-DED1-4B27-8AE8-83722C6D2F43@randallreetz.com>
Message-ID: <342546.89736.qm@web65411.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

--- Randall Lee Reetz <randall at randallreetz.com>
wrote:
> The Rev web site 2008 Christmas special says:
> 
> "Supercharge your
> databases, easily distribute
> software in multiple
> languages..."
> 
> I take it this use of the term "multiple languages"
> refers to natural  
> languages (English, Spanish, Italian, Japanese,
> etc.)  and not  
> computing languages (Java, C, Lisp, etc.)?
> 
> Anybody?
> 
> Randall
> 

Yep, that's natural languages - thanks to DamPro
NativeSpeak.
But Rev 2.9 introduced support for alternateLanguages
on Windows - VBScript, JavaScript,... - if that's what
you're looking for. Not to mention that you can always
use the 'shell' function, 'open process' or sockets to
communicate with items in a different programming
language.

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam Reports & PDF Library for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


      


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Dec 22 15:03:22 2008
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 12:03:22 -0800
Subject: Flash + RevBrowser + Mac Problems
In-Reply-To: <494FD627.7090509@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <C575328A.3E63A%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Thanks to all the folks who responded about Flash & RevBrowser issues.
Perhaps there are differences between older and recent versions of
ActionScript, maybe the version of the Flash player is important, or maybe
there are idiosyncrasies due to the version of the underlying browser
mechanism (on OS X this is based on Safari/WebKit, yes?).  In any event, I
hope this is something that can be nailed down if we as developers want to
offer Rev + Flash solutions to clients/users.

Happy Holidays,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design




From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Dec 22 15:09:51 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:09:51 +0100
Subject: the grabbedObject?
In-Reply-To: <29E04BEC-4B79-47CA-A11A-3DAC19470DCA@cruzio.com>
References: <48A0FE77-E564-420D-A161-EB4A10B8EFB5@cruzio.com>
	<DA2E960D-6373-4303-9FCD-FD801A3E8DBD@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<C394BD48-175C-4FA7-A600-F3ED9EE23D7B@cruzio.com>
	<9A9F82AE-2CE5-40A4-B394-7E32F62FE17E@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<29E04BEC-4B79-47CA-A11A-3DAC19470DCA@cruzio.com>
Message-ID: <D64088D4-FF5F-414E-A0C5-753B71CF03AF@sosmartsoftware.com>

Mark,

Actually, testing will allow you to avoid any unnecessary screen  
refresh and you know how refreshing screen is time and CPU consuming ;-)

Le 22 d?c. 08 ? 19:49, Mark Swindell a ?crit :

> Eric,
> Does testing require less overhead than setting? Just curious.
> Mark

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Dec 22 15:15:42 2008
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:15:42 -0500
Subject: post about GLx2 
In-Reply-To: <5DC02887-FF52-4EEF-9889-4A2DA9AF6C6C@pacifier.com>
References: <5DC02887-FF52-4EEF-9889-4A2DA9AF6C6C@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <44DC1803-729A-4C5B-BD78-4A3446278C55@mangomultimedia.com>

On Dec 20, 2008, at 8:05 PM, -= JB =- wrote:

> I just updated to the latest Rev beta.  I use GLx2 script editor and  
> it will not
> work with the latest Rev beta on and OS X 10.4.11.  I updated to the  
> latest
> version of GLx2 and the latest beta of GLx2 but it still will  not  
> work.

Hi JB,

I found out why GLX2 breaks in the Revolution build you are referring  
to. It turns out that 'value()' ignores the target object (2nd param)  
if provided and this breaks some GLX2 code. I imagine all will be well  
in the next build.

Regards,

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Learning Systems
www.bluemangolearning.com    -    www.screensteps.com


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 22 15:12:50 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 12:12:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
Message-ID: <430370.5868.qm@web37501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The answer to the "how much has Runtime Revolution brought to
the table" question is answered like any visit to a buffet lunch:

1. Crank up a Macintosh that can run Hypercard (if you can find one),

2. Crank up any PC or Mac (with the exception of that Iyonix,
   A9-Home and Advantage 6 you just happen to have) and run
   Runtime Revolution on it,

Now, just to be "b**chy":

3. Crank up any PC or Mac and go to:

   http://www.hot.com.my/metacard/

  and pop MetaCard 2.5 on to your system, [i.e. MetaCard just before
  it became dependent on a Runtime Revolution engine].

NOW, roll up your sleeves . . .

Try these: 

I.  download "Grabbed Object.rev" from revOnline (under 'Richmond');
    try duplicating the stack in HyperCard . . . . . .

II. I don't know if 'inks' work in Metacard 2.5 (Grabbed Object has
    an INK feature when you drag the 'X' across the "Idea by Richmond"
    image).

Now "Grabbed Object.rev" took me 15 minutes to put together with Runtime
Revolution 2.0.1 - RR 3 is way ahead of that; and I have a funny feeling that Runtime Revolution are not sitting around on their laurels.

Of course, my silly "Grabbed Objects" stack is a nothing when compared 
to the capabilities of Runtime Revolution; but HC cannot even do that.

Mr Reetz ought to take a cold shower and reconsider both his position and
his attitude.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.


____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From DunbarX at aol.com  Mon Dec 22 15:37:24 2008
From: DunbarX at aol.com (DunbarX at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:37:24 EST
Subject: OT2: The 'realness' of languages
Message-ID: <c36.43d5ab20.36815484@aol.com>

This is the same issue that went the rounds when HyperTalk came out twenty 
years ago. It wasn't a real language, it was a toy. It was not serious at all. 
And it had limitations, lord knows, so there was some merit to the argument.   
It made sense for private development, but only that. Even the fact that it 
was bundled with each Mac, itself considered a non-serious platform, crippled 
its acceptance into mainstream programming thinking.

It didn't matter that HC revolutionized software, or that it worked, except 
to hundreds of thousands of private developers, but even with us it was always 
a cult, and we were on the defensive, always. Revolution, being so much more 
powerful, tries to overcome this very same mind set by touting ease of use with 
no-limit capabilities. Big difference. But is this enough for smart human 
beings to see, and embrace?

It wasn't last time around. There are an awful lot of people who should have 
learned, and learned to love, HC that never even tried.


**************
One site 
keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it 
now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&amp;icid=aolcom40vanity&amp;
ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025)


From jeff at siphonophore.com  Mon Dec 22 15:56:02 2008
From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeff Reynolds)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:56:02 -0500
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 63, Issue 36
In-Reply-To: <20081222162300.A296B48A509@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20081222162300.A296B48A509@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <04CA19DB-F35A-4689-9AEA-4F318210DA53@siphonophore.com>

Ha, had forgotten about the old xtalk list. did it finally fold up  
lately? i seem to remember it hanging around for quite a while with a  
post here and there. with the exponential email curve i have gotten  
more vicious with the delete button so lost records of it a long time  
back.

one thing also missing around this is that while hypercard, supercard,  
metacard, revolution, toolbook, plus, and many others are all pretty  
much dialects of the general umbrella name of xtalk, Revolution is  
really the only one left standing and thriving. while there are some  
still limping along with hc and supercard and some of the other  
variants, they are a dying breed to say the least. Revolution is  
pretty much the only system living on doing Xtalk, so at this point it  
seem like they do have some bragging rights to name it as they have  
been pretty much carrying most of the torch for the last decade with  
Metacard and Revolution. Dr. Raney's willingness to be more open with  
the development (and naming even) give good testament to why this  
linage both survived and deserves the right to be in the drive's seat  
some also. I too like to see all credit go to the early developers of  
xtalk in general, but corporations and history have pretty much  
stopped all the other systems from sticking around, so at some point  
it gets a bit pointless to hold on to some names when there is only  
one left standing... Adding to this all the additions to the language  
that Rev has added with the years as Brian pointed out, all the others  
have not been moving the language forward, they are gone.

So while i use xtalk to describe the language in general, revolution  
is about the only practical one I can point to at this point doing the  
classic xtalk and pushing it onward.

cheers,

jeff

On Dec 22, 2008, at 11:23 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com  
wrote:

> I'm not sure if it helps or hinders the conversation to note that, to
> the best of my knowledge, the term "xTalk" was coined by none other  
> than
> Scott Raney, inventor of MetaCard.
>
> At the time, HyperTalkers preferred the term "HyperTalk", and
> SuperTalkers preferred "SuperTalk", but Dr. Raney showed the  
> generosity
> to bring into common usage a term which encompasses them all.
>
> In the mid-90s he created the xTalk mailing list, a discusssion forum
> whose aim was to provide a venue for the various xTalk vendors to
> standardize syntax additions.  This is not unlike the talks that had
> once been proposed by Charlie Jackson (Silicon Beach Software,  
> publisher
> of SuperCard at the time) and Jean Louis Gassee (Apple VP of  
> technology
> at the time) to standardize what were then called "HyperTalk  
> dialects".
>
> With both the xTalk list and the earlier Silicon Beach talks, when it
> actually came time to start work Apple refused to participate.
>
> In fact, with the xTalk list pretty much every vendor refused to
> participate except Doug Simons of Thoughtful Software, inventor of
> SenseTalk, and Dr. Raney himself.  All were sent invitations; only one
> showed up at the party.
>
> I think it speaks well of the audience for these tools that the word
> "xTalk" has caught on: it seems the users of these tools have a  
> broader
> vision for what the future can be than their old vendors did; the  
> users
> are still with us even when the vendor is not.



From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Mon Dec 22 17:21:50 2008
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 22:21:50 +0000
Subject: the grabbedObject?
In-Reply-To: <C5752D3C.3E636%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <C5752D3C.3E636%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <495012FE.9050609@cogapp.com>

Scott Rossi wrote:
> Recently, Ben Rubinstein wrote:
> 
>>> Unfortunately it appears that mouseEnter messages do not fire while an
>>> object is being dragged?
>> http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=6203
>>
>> A bit of a PITA, IMHO
> 
> True, currently no messages are sent during grab.  I for one didn't know
> that mouseMove is sent during grab -- this is great because one could do a
> lot with this.  But Rev also has drag and drop commands/messages

Which also block all messages

> and if you just want to trap a few events, you can use your own dragging method.

Thus negating some of the value of all that work that went into implement 
native drag+drop across platforms.

- Ben



From briany at qldlearning.com  Mon Dec 22 18:10:39 2008
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:10:39 -0800
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
In-Reply-To: <9BF517FB-08A7-4071-BABF-B974B41FCB60@randallreetz.com>
References: <20081221230117.ZCJJ9346.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>
	<D3E64119-B33C-4FA1-ADB2-53937796C0AB@qldlearning.com>
	<9BF517FB-08A7-4071-BABF-B974B41FCB60@randallreetz.com>
Message-ID: <DDFCAF7C-22BA-4A16-935A-D6A0760D02CF@qldlearning.com>

> This is not true.  You can call Revolution by its name all day  
> long... in reference to the product.  But if you are setting up a  
> comparison between major categories of languages, Rev's scripting  
> language certainly doesn't rank its own spot along side the likes of  
> C, Lisp, and SmallTalk.

Well sure, IF we are talking about some sort of high level, arbitrary  
taxonomy then you are right. But I still don't know who besides you is  
trying to create one. I guess everyone who works in C++ should be very  
careful to put it under "C" and not mention it on its own. What's the  
point? OK, Revolution didn't invent xTalk syntax. We get it. Very few  
languages have their own unique syntax.

> If I go to amazon to purchase a programming system, I will ask for a  
> product by name.  If I am comparing language families it would be  
> ridiculous to list Rev next to C.  If I was to mention Rev, I would  
> have to then refer to CodeWarrior and such instead of C.
>
> xTalk is to C as Revolution is to CodeWarrior.

No, it's not. CodeWarrior is just a C IDE + compiler in this context.  
Revolution is NOT just an IDE for an already existing language. It's  
not a HyperTalk compiler.

> My original post was not in direct relation to this silly religion  
> thread.  The religion thread is a sub-thread to a larger discussion  
> about what to call the scripting language within the Revolution  
> product.
> In this larger discussion, I saw a disturbing lack of historical and  
> genealogical reference to the origin of the language upon which Rev  
> is based.  Again, there is much about Rev that is unique within the  
> xTalk development tool category... the scripting language itself is  
> not significantly unique to this same degree.  In point of fact, it  
> is upon the strength of this borrowed (event driven, message  
> passing, object centered, english syntax) language that Rev is based.

OK, that's fine in theory, even though the list of major improvements  
to the language is enormous. Yes, one could argue that the true power  
lives in the english-like syntax and message passing model. Perhaps  
it's just your choice of words which are condescending. You call the  
thread silly, say people are drinking "Kool-Aid", that things  
"disturb" you and that people are lacking respect for the origins of  
the language. C'mon. You obviously have no clue what group of people  
you are addressing, and call people names when they respectfully  
disagree with you.

> That is how I describe Rev when I am asked.  There are better and  
> worse IDEs in every language category.  For many reasons, Rev is one  
> of the best in the xTalk category.  But what really makes Rev great  
> is the same thing that makes SuperCard great... the friendly  
> underlying xTalk language and simple object hierarchy within which  
> it is situated.

Not how I would put it, but surely a fair point of view.

> In my opinion, the best way to brag up the Rev product is to call  
> out its strengths.  Naming Rev's scripting language anything that  
> does not directly reference this key attribute (xTalk) would ignore  
> the goodwill inherent in the structure and heritage that was  
> intentionally designed into the original SmallTalk and HyperTalk  
> languages and the philosophy that drove those original design  
> decisions.
>
> As good as the Rev IDE is, if you wrapped it around C instead of  
> xTalk, you would be left with C... most of us would abandon the  
> product immediately.  Know what I mean?

Yes, I do =). We share a common appreciation for Rev. So I would  
suggest calling people out a little less when they simply disagree  
about how to classify it.

I'm sure we could carry on this back and forth forever, so I will let  
it be at this point. At least we both like the product, whatever we  
call it.


From katir at hindu.org  Mon Dec 22 18:28:42 2008
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:28:42 -1000
Subject: Hammering on about Paragraphs
In-Reply-To: <494FBF09.4050501@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <294107.89462.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<494FBF09.4050501@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <495022AA.6000509@hindu.org>

J. Landman Gay wrote:
> Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>>
>> Back to my "Applescript in a Nutshell" (which is an endlessly tedious 
>> book):
>>
>> page 430:
>>
>> "A paragraph object is a chunk of text that is terminated by a new 
>> line or paragraph character."
>>
>> Can anybody tell me what a 'paragraph character" would be?
>
> In Rev, as I mentioned, it's a carriage return. Ditto for all word 
> processing apps.
>
This is Option-7 on the Mac -- it is a character that indicates a 
paragraph break without any new line. The typographical convention is 
that this character is preceeded by a space, but is not followed by one. 
thus prepending it to the new paragraph as a starting character.... 
Substitute option-7 for dollar sign in the  4 paragraphs below.

------ (way OT) ----

The moles were working late into the night. Their top engineers were 
blindly building mountains of compost, heaps of much-maligned form over 
function. $Young apprentice mole-engineers, who still had eyes, did 
careful analyses and reported that this compost had no nutritive value 
for the seeds and saplings planted by the mole-creatives in the next 
cavern (for which garden the compost was intended) were told to shut up, 
had their eyes removed and were banished for 72 hours to solitary 
confinement. $Over time the young engineers learned to help shovel that 
stuff without a murmur of protest, until one day, they too became stern 
task masters and proud supervisers in the realm of the mountains of form 
over function. $Meanwhile a wise old mole who had been observing 
silently all the while, climbed up a ladder he had built for himself 
decades ago, to do what moles never do--sun himself topside on the lawn. 
As he chewed a blade of grass and rolled over on his belly to tan his 
buns, he thought, "Ahh, if they just would try out my ladder, to come up 
here and relax, they would all understand the correct unity of form and 
function."

------

skts






From sundown at pacifier.com  Mon Dec 22 18:30:57 2008
From: sundown at pacifier.com (-= JB =-)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:30:57 -0800
Subject: post about GLx2 
In-Reply-To: <44DC1803-729A-4C5B-BD78-4A3446278C55@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <5DC02887-FF52-4EEF-9889-4A2DA9AF6C6C@pacifier.com>
	<44DC1803-729A-4C5B-BD78-4A3446278C55@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <EFDD892D-C5CA-4868-8A55-FF4850E9F842@pacifier.com>

Hi Trevor,

Thanks for the info!  I am glad to hear the problem can be solved and  
most likely
will be soon.

-=>JB<=-


On Dec 22, 2008, at 12:15 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> On Dec 20, 2008, at 8:05 PM, -= JB =- wrote:
>
>> I just updated to the latest Rev beta.  I use GLx2 script editor  
>> and it will not
>> work with the latest Rev beta on and OS X 10.4.11.  I updated to  
>> the latest
>> version of GLx2 and the latest beta of GLx2 but it still will  not  
>> work.
>
> Hi JB,
>
> I found out why GLX2 breaks in the Revolution build you are  
> referring to. It turns out that 'value()' ignores the target object  
> (2nd param) if provided and this breaks some GLX2 code. I imagine  
> all will be well in the next build.
>
> Regards,
>
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> Blue Mango Learning Systems
> www.bluemangolearning.com    -    www.screensteps.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From randall at randallreetz.com  Mon Dec 22 20:00:10 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Reetz)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:00:10 -0800
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
Message-ID: <20081223010307.KARP26612.atlmtaow01.cingularme.com@Inbox>

Wow, i just think xtalk is a point of pride.  This thead started with "what should we  call it?" and morphed to an apologetic on how we should explain why we use it?  And i argue that both ?s are solved when you honor its lineage. 

-----Original Message-----
From: "Brian Yennie" <briany at qldlearning.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: 12/22/2008 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] If programming languages were religions...

> This is not true.  You can call Revolution by its name all day  
> long... in reference to the product.  But if you are setting up a  
> comparison between major categories of languages, Rev's scripting  
> language certainly doesn't rank its own spot along side the likes of  
> C, Lisp, and SmallTalk.

Well sure, IF we are talking about some sort of high level, arbitrary  
taxonomy then you are right. But I still don't know who besides you is  
trying to create one. I guess everyone who works in C++ should be very  
careful to put it under "C" and not mention it on its own. What's the  
point? OK, Revolution didn't invent xTalk syntax. We get it. Very few  
languages have their own unique syntax.

> If I go to amazon to purchase a programming system, I will ask for a  
> product by name.  If I am comparing language families it would be  
> ridiculous to list Rev next to C.  If I was to mention Rev, I would  
> have to then refer to CodeWarrior and such instead of C.
>
> xTalk is to C as Revolution is to CodeWarrior.

No, it's not. CodeWarrior is just a C IDE + compiler in this context.  
Revolution is NOT just an IDE for an already existing language. It's  
not a HyperTalk compiler.

> My original post was not in direct relation to this silly religion  
> thread.  The religion thread is a sub-thread to a larger discussion  
> about what to call the scripting language within the Revolution  
> product.
> In this larger discussion, I saw a disturbing lack of historical and  
> genealogical reference to the origin of the language upon which Rev  
> is based.  Again, there is much about Rev that is unique within the  
> xTalk development tool category... the scripting language itself is  
> not significantly unique to this same degree.  In point of fact, it  
> is upon the strength of this borrowed (event driven, message  
> passing, object centered, english syntax) language that Rev is based.

OK, that's fine in theory, even though the list of major improvements  
to the language is enormous. Yes, one could argue that the true power  
lives in the english-like syntax and message passing model. Perhaps  
it's just your choice of words which are condescending. You call the  
thread silly, say people are drinking "Kool-Aid", that things  
"disturb" you and that people are lacking respect for the origins of  
the language. C'mon. You obviously have no clue what group of people  
you are addressing, and call people names when they respectfully  
disagree with you.

> That is how I describe Rev when I am asked.  There are better and  
> worse IDEs in every language category.  For many reasons, Rev is one  
> of the best in the xTalk category.  But what really makes Rev great  
> is the same thing that makes SuperCard great... the friendly  
> underlying xTalk language and simple object hierarchy within which  
> it is situated.

Not how I would put it, but surely a fair point of view.

> In my opinion, the best way to brag up the Rev product is to call  
> out its strengths.  Naming Rev's scripting language anything that  
> does not directly reference this key attribute (xTalk) would ignore  
> the goodwill inherent in the structure and heritage that was  
> intentionally designed into the original SmallTalk and HyperTalk  
> languages and the philosophy that drove those original design  
> decisions.
>
> As good as the Rev IDE is, if you wrapped it around C instead of  
> xTalk, you would be left with C... most of us would abandon the  


[truncated by sender]


From rjb at robelko.com  Mon Dec 22 19:59:34 2008
From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 01:59:34 +0100
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
In-Reply-To: <9BF517FB-08A7-4071-BABF-B974B41FCB60@randallreetz.com>
References: <20081221230117.ZCJJ9346.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>
	<D3E64119-B33C-4FA1-ADB2-53937796C0AB@qldlearning.com>
	<9BF517FB-08A7-4071-BABF-B974B41FCB60@randallreetz.com>
Message-ID: <p0624080ac575e6c3564c@[192.168.1.103]>

On 22/12/08 at 09:05 -0800 Randall Lee Reetz apparently wrote:
>If I go to amazon to purchase a programming system, I will ask for a 
>product by name.  If I am comparing language families it would be 
>ridiculous to list Rev next to C.  If I was to mention Rev, I would 
>have to then refer to CodeWarrior and such instead of C.
>
>xTalk is to C as Revolution is to CodeWarrior.

Randall, I wonder whether you are not being confused by "Revolution" 
refering to two different things nowadays.

Revolution is parallel to Codewarrior as the IDE.
Revolution is parallel to C or SmallTalk as the language.

The language of Revolution used to be called Transcript, but not that 
long ago, RunRev decided to rename the language to Revolution.

Robert


From shoreagent at gmail.com  Mon Dec 22 20:14:50 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:14:50 -0400
Subject: post about GLx2
In-Reply-To: <44DC1803-729A-4C5B-BD78-4A3446278C55@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <5DC02887-FF52-4EEF-9889-4A2DA9AF6C6C@pacifier.com>
	<44DC1803-729A-4C5B-BD78-4A3446278C55@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812221714x3e9cc54fi744a76a5a917b175@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to figure out how to stop filling a field and move on to the next
field without breaking a "paragraph" in the middle.
Say the field is ten lines long and you have fifty rows of data and you want
to split the data into the ten line long fields without breaking a paragraph
in the middle unless a paragraph is over ten lines long and you have to
(although that is rare).

I'm having trouble figuring out an easy way to walk through these lines of
data and put in the breaks as need be. One of the problems is you can't say
there are five pages in total (50 / 10 ) as sometimes a page will only have
say six rows because in order to have widow control you have to start the
next six or seven line long paragraph on the next page.

Any simple ideas on how I should look at this?


From shoreagent at gmail.com  Mon Dec 22 20:28:13 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:28:13 -0400
Subject: Widow control
Message-ID: <459b22a90812221728w1c1d2fcfp1902118bf24c720f@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to figure out how to stop filling a field and move on to the next
field without breaking a "paragraph" in the middle.Fixed subject to "Widow
Control"

Say the field is ten lines long and you have fifty rows of data and you want
to split the data into the ten line long fields without breaking a paragraph
in the middle unless a paragraph is over ten lines long and you have to
(although that is rare).

I'm having trouble figuring out an easy way to walk through these lines of
data and put in the breaks as need be. One of the problems is you can't say
there are five pages in total (50 / 10 ) as sometimes a page will only have
say six rows because in order to have widow control you have to start the
next six or seven line long paragraph on the next page.

Any simple ideas on how I should look at this differently?


From randall at randallreetz.com  Mon Dec 22 21:19:21 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Lee Reetz)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:19:21 -0800
Subject: Anyone here script spotlight through applescript?
Message-ID: <C8B47CAC-AABB-4580-99DE-4941EE1D6B2B@randallreetz.com>

I found this online...


> Launch Script Editor (/Applications/AppleScript/Script Editor) and  
> enter this text into a new Script Editor window:
>
> set this_appfile to path to me tell application "Finder" set the  
> search_string to comment of this_appfile end tell tell application  
> "System Events" keystroke " " using {option down, command down}  
> delay 1 keystroke search_string end tell
> Save the script as an application. In the Finder select the saved  
> application you just created and press Command-I to bring up the  
> Info window. Click the triangle next to Comments and enter a  
> comment along these lines: ?date:today kind:image ? (without the  
> quotes but with the space after image so you can easily expand the  
> search by adding other data).
>
> Drop the AppleScript application into the Dock and click on it  
> whenever you want Spotlight to quickly find any images mucked with  
> today. Feel free to experiment with copies of the script by  
> entering other values into the Comments field to trigger different  
> kinds of searches??kind:music Rosie Thomas ? or ?date:This Month  
> Denmark ? for example.
>
> Would like to search the Spotlight index from xtalk.
>
> Any ideas?
>


Randall

From randall at randallreetz.com  Mon Dec 22 21:20:11 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Lee Reetz)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:20:11 -0800
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
In-Reply-To: <494FDF44.4080603@fourthworld.com>
References: <494FDF44.4080603@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <DAC72C72-2EA2-440D-9918-327055A3F90A@randallreetz.com>

Richard,

I just don't think a language is significantly different because it  
has more or less words than it had at one time.  What distinguishes a  
language from other languages is structural, grammatical, syntactic.   
Both spanish and english acquire new lexicon all the time... rarely  
does this new vocabulary require a rewrite of the grammatical rules  
that sit at each language's base.  Nobody looking at Rev's script  
would ever say it wasn't an xtalk language.  Adding a load of new  
words and functions doesn't change this, never will.  None of what I  
am saying is an evaluation of Rev.  The reason both SuperCard and Rev  
can make available hyperCard stack translators is because of this  
structural kinship.  It is a badge of honor.  Every time a new domain  
specific version of C comes out, i role my eyes and groan.  You can't  
make a purse out of a sow's ear.  Garbage in ? garbage out.  XTalk  
heritage is a selling point!  Adding functionality on top... well  
that is even better.  It matters what sits under and supports any new  
functionality.

I am certainly not saying that xTalk is the end-all-be-all language.   
The future holds promise (I hope).  What I am saying is that a  
flexible natural language syntax leverages human cognition and  
learned abilities... enabling a short learning curve and the ability  
to concentrate on problem domain instead of tool domain.  Allan Kay  
and Bill Atkinson understood and honored this premise.

I don't need to be sold on the positive attributes of Rev.  The  
problems I have had with SuperCard have nothing to do with the  
product.  I love supercard!  And nothing at all to do with its  
development team (person).  The organization is too small for decent  
product development funding.  And, (from what I have been told) the  
product is owned by a group that does not own access to all of the  
kernel upon which it is built.

Randall


On Dec 22, 2008, at 10:41 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
>> As I said, there are important aspects of the Revolution product  
>> that  ARE unique... the use and GUI centered IDE, the multi- 
>> platform  develop and publish flexibility, the viability of the  
>> user community  and this online support group, the stability of  
>> the company and the  rapidity and reliability of the pace of  
>> version development cycle,  the constant evolution of the product  
>> in lockstep with platform  evolution, etc.  But the subject was  
>> the scripting language itself.
>
> While of course Revolution is just one implementation in the xTalk  
> family of languages, its specific dialect at this point is probably  
> 30% or even 40% or more unique, or at least distinct from the  
> Mother Tongue, HyperTalk.
>
> If we exclude all externals (since they were written in other  
> languages) and look only at what's natively in the engine, it might  
> even be the case that Rev has added as many new tokens as were in  
> the entire HyperTalk 2.x language.
>
> All tokens related to arrays, sockets, URLs, new forms of repeat,  
> icons in ask and answer, scrollbars, color, blendlevels, images,  
> groups, gradients, aliases, system color and folder pickers,  
> compression/decompression, binary file I/O, binary operators,  
> Unicode, window modes, mouseMove and other messages, buffer  
> control, video playback, QTVR control, drag-and-drop,  
> executionContexts and other debugging/logging info, script-local  
> vars, animated GIFs, image export formats, screen shots, new date  
> and time formats, backdrops, timers, serial I/O, audio recording,  
> substacks, template objects, labels as distinct from names, and  
> dozens of new properties for even buttons and fields, just to name  
> a few - all unique to Rev.
>
> And then there's a good number of tokens not in HC that Rev has  
> adopted from other xTalks, like SC's frontScripts, backScripts,  
> graphic objects, transfer modes, and the merge function, and OMO's  
> libraryStack message, just to name a few, along with a new altID  
> property to make such ports even easier.
>
> If it appears all Rev brings to the table is multi-platform support  
> and its IDE, that perception will change as one spends more time  
> with the Rev Dictionary.  A LOT has been happening since the engine  
> was born in '92.
>
> I don't even use the Rev IDE nor its externals.  With just the core  
> language in the engine, I simply couldn't go back to HC or even SC  
> if I had to.  While we're all using xTalks, I've adopted a coding  
> style that makes such extensive use of the expanded syntax and  
> object model that I doubt much of what I do would run anywhere else.
>
> Sure, Rev feels familiar to any xTalker.  I guess that's a good  
> sign of how passionate Mark Waddingham is about maintaining the  
> flavor of the language (he was once nearly willing to engage in  
> fisticuffs with me in his defense of the language style <g>; I  
> acquiesced, of course, since he's both younger and stronger than me  
> and more importantly fighting with a greater sense of purpose).   
> But for all its familiarity, Rev is a brave new world among xTalks,  
> one that has earned through the sweat of its many programmers a  
> place of unique honor among the xTalk dialects.
>
> True, Mark Lucas, SuperCard's lead programmer, is perhaps the  
> greatest Mac programmer I've ever been privileged to know  
> personally, and under his stewardship it's no surprise SuperCard  
> has done as well as it has. But while Mr. Lucas may do the work of  
> a ten men, not only does he have a stronger loathing of the Windows  
> API than even myself, but he would also be among the first to note  
> the challenges of doing this sort of work for multiple platforms.   
> Drag and drop, for example, is a complex API on OS X; add in  
> Windows and Linux and the complexity grows geometrically.
>
> For all the inspiration Rev has drawn from its lineage, the Rev  
> engine is quite an achievement in its own right.  Browse through  
> the Dictionary and you'll see what I mean.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World
>  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jerry.daniels at me.com  Mon Dec 22 21:23:39 2008
From: jerry.daniels at me.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 20:23:39 -0600
Subject: post about GLx2
In-Reply-To: <EFDD892D-C5CA-4868-8A55-FF4850E9F842@pacifier.com>
References: <5DC02887-FF52-4EEF-9889-4A2DA9AF6C6C@pacifier.com>
	<44DC1803-729A-4C5B-BD78-4A3446278C55@mangomultimedia.com>
	<EFDD892D-C5CA-4868-8A55-FF4850E9F842@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <A8CF77CB-C190-4A96-A8E7-4A44BD1B88B0@me.com>

Just so everyone is clear and there's no ambiguity:

Trevor is referring to Runrev fixing a bug in the next beta build of  
Revolution so that its value function will once again work properly.  
This fix, in turn, will allow GLX2 (and any other project that uses  
the value function) to once again work properly.

That was probably already clear,  but could a little more clarity hurt?

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Daniels & Mara, Inc.
Makers of GLX2
http://www.glx2.com

On Dec 22, 2008, at 5:30 PM, -= JB =- wrote:

> Hi Trevor,
>
> Thanks for the info!  I am glad to hear the problem can be solved  
> and most likely
> will be soon.
>
> -=>JB<=-
>
>
> On Dec 22, 2008, at 12:15 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote:
>
>> On Dec 20, 2008, at 8:05 PM, -= JB =- wrote:
>>
>>> I just updated to the latest Rev beta.  I use GLx2 script editor  
>>> and it will not
>>> work with the latest Rev beta on and OS X 10.4.11.  I updated to  
>>> the latest
>>> version of GLx2 and the latest beta of GLx2 but it still will  not  
>>> work.
>>
>> Hi JB,
>>
>> I found out why GLX2 breaks in the Revolution build you are  
>> referring to. It turns out that 'value()' ignores the target object  
>> (2nd param) if provided and this breaks some GLX2 code. I imagine  
>> all will be well in the next build.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -- 
>> Trevor DeVore
>> Blue Mango Learning Systems
>> www.bluemangolearning.com    -    www.screensteps.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From andre at andregarzia.com  Mon Dec 22 21:55:20 2008
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 00:55:20 -0200
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
In-Reply-To: <DDFCAF7C-22BA-4A16-935A-D6A0760D02CF@qldlearning.com>
References: <20081221230117.ZCJJ9346.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>
	<D3E64119-B33C-4FA1-ADB2-53937796C0AB@qldlearning.com>
	<9BF517FB-08A7-4071-BABF-B974B41FCB60@randallreetz.com>
	<DDFCAF7C-22BA-4A16-935A-D6A0760D02CF@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <7c87a2a10812221855q1e35206csde73c55ac2a7a51e@mail.gmail.com>

Irgh, I got lost while reading this thread. Question, wasn't the
language called transcript?

xTalk is not a language is a set of common characteristics shared by
HyperTalk, MetaTalk, SuperTalk and friends... if xTalk was a language
then find me a xTalk interpreter, compiler. There's no such thing.
xTalk was an idea to bring together all similar things and find a
common ground, like they did with common lisp (Remember the joke about
practical common lisp being as practical and common as the holy roman
empire was holy and an empire...)

and by the way, transcript or metatalk or revolution or whichever we
call it today, is as turing complete as C, Lisp, Smalltalk and others,
so please don't tell me that as a language it fails somewhere because
it does not. Now if you want to talk about spread and commonness of
Runtime Revolution product in comparison of other languages, then
don't push the discussion towards language taxonomy or
semantics/syntax because it does not make sense!

You can complain about lack of widgets and libraries.
You can complain about iPhone, Flash, Amiga, RISC PC, Toaster support
(my pet peeve is BSD support)
You can complain about it being so easy that film school graduates can
code professional apps with no formal CS education
You can complain about not being able to create your own Operating
System with Revolution
But you simply can't say that the scripting language (syntax +
semantics) doesn't compare with C, APL, Whatever... because that
simply ain't true.

Yes we can code a full blown OS with C, we can revolutionize the world
with SmallTalk, we can rover around mars with Lisp but it took me 2
months to create a full blown network preferences application in C/C++
for Haiku (BeOS like system), the same work would take a week maximum
with Revolution (and this include building the C external for the I/O
network card stuff). So how do we measure the success of a language?
How do we compare them? The answer is simple: We Don't!!! To each
their own, my uncle who's a naval engineer still using Fortran 77,
some masochi^H^H^H^H^H^H coders still use PERL and will not trade it
for anything. I am fond of Lisp and wish I they sold plush parentheses
so I could put them on my office desk. The thing is, people use what
they know and for them that is the best option. Saying that Revolution
doesn't rank as well as $LANGUAGE$ doesn't mean anything. Ask Chipp,
Trevor or Richard about deploying solutions in Rev instead of C... You
might get the impression that C doesn't rank as well as Revolution,
which would also be false, since both are turing complete and very
competent at their own niche, Revolution being in the business
empowering the developers with an sane language easy to learn and
maintain and C being in the business of leaking memory^H^H^H^H low
level stuff.

all languages are fine...


From randall at randallreetz.com  Tue Dec 23 00:11:20 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Reetz)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:11:20 -0800
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
Message-ID: <20081223051417.YJOS26612.atlmtaow01.cingularme.com@Inbox>

Gee, how would that confuse anyone?

-----Original Message-----
From: "Robert Brenstein" <rjb at robelko.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: 12/22/2008 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] If programming languages were religions...

On 22/12/08 at 09:05 -0800 Randall Lee Reetz apparently wrote:
>If I go to amazon to purchase a programming system, I will ask for a 
>product by name.  If I am comparing language families it would be 
>ridiculous to list Rev next to C.  If I was to mention Rev, I would 
>have to then refer to CodeWarrior and such instead of C.
>
>xTalk is to C as Revolution is to CodeWarrior.

Randall, I wonder whether you are not being confused by "Revolution" 
refering to two different things nowadays.

Revolution is parallel to Codewarrior as the IDE.
Revolution is parallel to C or SmallTalk as the language.

The language of Revolution used to be called Transcript, but not that 
long ago, RunRev decided to rename the language to Revolution.

Robert
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Dec 23 00:43:44 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:43:44 -0800
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
Message-ID: <49507A90.8040504@fourthworld.com>

I've agreed with you before, and I won't change my opinion now:  I still 
agree with you.

My post was merely a response to the one small part of your many posts 
today in which it seemed you had not yet fully grasped the sweeping 
scope of unique enhancements Rev has brought to the xTalk family of 
languages.

It seems you have. I think I'd just lost sight of whatever point this 
thread once had.  My mistake.

May we consider this horse sufficiently pulverized?

My hatchet is buried.  I'm going to go do some Christmas now.
I hope you enjoy yours too.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


Randall Lee Reetz wrote:

> Richard,
> 
> I just don't think a language is significantly different because it  
> has more or less words than it had at one time.  What distinguishes a  
> language from other languages is structural, grammatical, syntactic.   
> Both spanish and english acquire new lexicon all the time... rarely  
> does this new vocabulary require a rewrite of the grammatical rules  
> that sit at each language's base.  Nobody looking at Rev's script  
> would ever say it wasn't an xtalk language.  Adding a load of new  
> words and functions doesn't change this, never will.  None of what I  
> am saying is an evaluation of Rev.  The reason both SuperCard and Rev  
> can make available hyperCard stack translators is because of this  
> structural kinship.  It is a badge of honor.  Every time a new domain  
> specific version of C comes out, i role my eyes and groan.  You can't  
> make a purse out of a sow's ear.  Garbage in ? garbage out.  XTalk  
> heritage is a selling point!  Adding functionality on top... well  
> that is even better.  It matters what sits under and supports any new  
> functionality.
> 
> I am certainly not saying that xTalk is the end-all-be-all language.   
> The future holds promise (I hope).  What I am saying is that a  
> flexible natural language syntax leverages human cognition and  
> learned abilities... enabling a short learning curve and the ability  
> to concentrate on problem domain instead of tool domain.  Allan Kay  
> and Bill Atkinson understood and honored this premise.
> 
> I don't need to be sold on the positive attributes of Rev.  The  
> problems I have had with SuperCard have nothing to do with the  
> product.  I love supercard!  And nothing at all to do with its  
> development team (person).  The organization is too small for decent  
> product development funding.  And, (from what I have been told) the  
> product is owned by a group that does not own access to all of the  
> kernel upon which it is built.
> 
> Randall
> 
> 
> On Dec 22, 2008, at 10:41 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
>>> As I said, there are important aspects of the Revolution product  
>>> that  ARE unique... the use and GUI centered IDE, the multi- 
>>> platform  develop and publish flexibility, the viability of the  
>>> user community  and this online support group, the stability of  
>>> the company and the  rapidity and reliability of the pace of  
>>> version development cycle,  the constant evolution of the product  
>>> in lockstep with platform  evolution, etc.  But the subject was  
>>> the scripting language itself.
>>
>> While of course Revolution is just one implementation in the xTalk  
>> family of languages, its specific dialect at this point is probably  
>> 30% or even 40% or more unique, or at least distinct from the  
>> Mother Tongue, HyperTalk.
>>
>> If we exclude all externals (since they were written in other  
>> languages) and look only at what's natively in the engine, it might  
>> even be the case that Rev has added as many new tokens as were in  
>> the entire HyperTalk 2.x language.
>>
>> All tokens related to arrays, sockets, URLs, new forms of repeat,  
>> icons in ask and answer, scrollbars, color, blendlevels, images,  
>> groups, gradients, aliases, system color and folder pickers,  
>> compression/decompression, binary file I/O, binary operators,  
>> Unicode, window modes, mouseMove and other messages, buffer  
>> control, video playback, QTVR control, drag-and-drop,  
>> executionContexts and other debugging/logging info, script-local  
>> vars, animated GIFs, image export formats, screen shots, new date  
>> and time formats, backdrops, timers, serial I/O, audio recording,  
>> substacks, template objects, labels as distinct from names, and  
>> dozens of new properties for even buttons and fields, just to name  
>> a few - all unique to Rev.
>>
>> And then there's a good number of tokens not in HC that Rev has  
>> adopted from other xTalks, like SC's frontScripts, backScripts,  
>> graphic objects, transfer modes, and the merge function, and OMO's  
>> libraryStack message, just to name a few, along with a new altID  
>> property to make such ports even easier.
>>
>> If it appears all Rev brings to the table is multi-platform support  
>> and its IDE, that perception will change as one spends more time  
>> with the Rev Dictionary.  A LOT has been happening since the engine  
>> was born in '92.
>>
>> I don't even use the Rev IDE nor its externals.  With just the core  
>> language in the engine, I simply couldn't go back to HC or even SC  
>> if I had to.  While we're all using xTalks, I've adopted a coding  
>> style that makes such extensive use of the expanded syntax and  
>> object model that I doubt much of what I do would run anywhere else.
>>
>> Sure, Rev feels familiar to any xTalker.  I guess that's a good  
>> sign of how passionate Mark Waddingham is about maintaining the  
>> flavor of the language (he was once nearly willing to engage in  
>> fisticuffs with me in his defense of the language style <g>; I  
>> acquiesced, of course, since he's both younger and stronger than me  
>> and more importantly fighting with a greater sense of purpose).   
>> But for all its familiarity, Rev is a brave new world among xTalks,  
>> one that has earned through the sweat of its many programmers a  
>> place of unique honor among the xTalk dialects.
>>
>> True, Mark Lucas, SuperCard's lead programmer, is perhaps the  
>> greatest Mac programmer I've ever been privileged to know  
>> personally, and under his stewardship it's no surprise SuperCard  
>> has done as well as it has. But while Mr. Lucas may do the work of  
>> a ten men, not only does he have a stronger loathing of the Windows  
>> API than even myself, but he would also be among the first to note  
>> the challenges of doing this sort of work for multiple platforms.   
>> Drag and drop, for example, is a complex API on OS X; add in  
>> Windows and Linux and the complexity grows geometrically.
>>
>> For all the inspiration Rev has drawn from its lineage, the Rev  
>> engine is quite an achievement in its own right.  Browse through  
>> the Dictionary and you'll see what I mean.
>>
>> --
>>  Richard Gaskin
>>  Fourth World
>>  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>>  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
> 
>     * Previous message: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
>     * Next message: ... distribute in multiple languages?
>     * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
> 
> More information about the use-revolution mailing list


From randall at randallreetz.com  Tue Dec 23 01:42:23 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Reetz)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 22:42:23 -0800
Subject: [OT] If programming languages were religions...
Message-ID: <20081223064520.BQYO26612.atlmtaow01.cingularme.com@Inbox>

Does this mean i am getting old?

-----Original Message-----
From: "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: 12/22/2008 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] If programming languages were religions...

I've agreed with you before, and I won't change my opinion now:  I still 
agree with you.

My post was merely a response to the one small part of your many posts 
today in which it seemed you had not yet fully grasped the sweeping 
scope of unique enhancements Rev has brought to the xTalk family of 
languages.

It seems you have. I think I'd just lost sight of whatever point this 
thread once had.  My mistake.

May we consider this horse sufficiently pulverized?

My hatchet is buried.  I'm going to go do some Christmas now.
I hope you enjoy yours too.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


Randall Lee Reetz wrote:

> Richard,
> 
> I just don't think a language is significantly different because it  
> has more or less words than it had at one time.  What distinguishes a  
> language from other languages is structural, grammatical, syntactic.   
> Both spanish and english acquire new lexicon all the time... rarely  
> does this new vocabulary require a rewrite of the grammatical rules  
> that sit at each language's base.  Nobody looking at Rev's script  
> would ever say it wasn't an xtalk language.  Adding a load of new  
> words and functions doesn't change this, never will.  None of what I  
> am saying is an evaluation of Rev.  The reason both SuperCard and Rev  
> can make available hyperCard stack translators is because of this  
> structural kinship.  It is a badge of honor.  Every time a new domain  
> specific version of C comes out, i role my eyes and groan.  You can't  
> make a purse out of a sow's ear.  Garbage in ? garbage out.  XTalk  
> heritage is a selling point!  Adding functionality on top... well  
> that is even better.  It matters what sits under and supports any new  
> functionality.
> 
> I am certainly not saying that xTalk is the end-all-be-all language.   
> The future holds promise (I hope).  What I am saying is that a  
> flexible natural language syntax leverages human cognition and  
> learned abilities... enabling a short learning curve and the ability  
> to concentrate on problem domain instead of tool domain.  Allan Kay  
> and Bill Atkinson understood and honored this premise.
> 
> I don't need to be sold on the positive attributes of Rev.  The  
> problems I have had with SuperCard have nothing to do with the  
> product.  I love supercard!  And nothing at all to do with its  
> development team (person).  The organization is too small for decent  
> product development funding.  And, (from what I have been told) the  
> product is owned by a group that does not own access to all of the  
> kernel upon which it is built.
> 
> Randall
> 
> 
> On Dec 22, 2008, at 10:41 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Randall Lee Reetz wrote:


[truncated by sender]


From palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Dec 23 02:22:00 2008
From: palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk (Peter Alcibiades)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 23:22:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: OT2: The 'realness' of languages
In-Reply-To: <50CBC776-182D-4494-B784-855FB229D32F@luceatlux.com>
References: <50CBC776-182D-4494-B784-855FB229D32F@luceatlux.com>
Message-ID: <21140632.post@talk.nabble.com>


It still sounds as if you're failing to probe the question/objection, and it
will be impossible to answer it unless you find out exactly what it is.  Is
it support?  Is it a concern about robustness?  Is it a matter of internal
company policy?  What were they expecting it to be written in?  C?  Python? 
Perl? VB? It will take different things in each case to answer it.

Imagine someone is delivering a proposal to a company you work for, and when
asked exactly that same question, replies, it will be written in Scheme. 
She goes on to explain that she is more productive in Scheme than any other
language, she can deliver cross platform apps of the sort you are asking for
in a tenth of the time, and she offers to do an instant demo for you of
something that would take several hours in C, in about 10 minutes.

What do you say to her, and what do you think, and what do you say to your
colleagues when you talk to them about it?
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/OT2%3A-The-%27realness%27-of-languages-tp21129752p21140632.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From geradamas at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 23 03:47:29 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 00:47:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hammering on about Paragraphs
Message-ID: <926872.43248.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear Sivakatirswami,

"they would all understand the correct unity of form and 
function"

reminds me of "The Fire and The Sun" section of Plato's
Republic; even if not to mention the central goal of
Hinduism.

Most of us, however, are still sufficiently blinded by the
light of Runtime Revolution to stay involved in this sort
of discussion. While the appeal of non-action, or, better,
disinterested action may be there (and of course, as soon as
it is seen as 'appealing' it is no longer un-motivated), I,
for one, am so encoiled in the grip of the earthly serpent
that I prefer the old, well-trodden path of Karma Marga.

AND, if the path of work is paved with Runtime Revolution,
it feels a whole lot more liberating than the languages that
Mr Reetz is obviously embroiled with!

I would like to delude myself that, although a mole,
shovelling away in the dark, I have at least one eye
open to look at higher things. Where you and I differ,
perhaps, is that, at present, "higher things" means
becoming a highly competent Runtime Revolution
programmer. While this may not result in a particularly
long-lasting type of peace, it will guarantee that the
rest of my time on earth is rather comfortable.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 23 03:52:25 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 00:52:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Widow control
Message-ID: <37641.32691.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Wow! As a happily married man, widow control is somewhere outside
my field: surely this is something for gigolos more conversant in a
Rapine Revolution than a Runtime Revolution?

In the last several postings we have had:

"pressing my button"

and

"widow control"

Have a Happy Christmas!

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From viktoras at ekoinf.net  Tue Dec 23 05:24:28 2008
From: viktoras at ekoinf.net (viktoras didziulis)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 12:24:28 +0200
Subject: OT2: The 'realness' of languages
In-Reply-To: <21140632.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <50CBC776-182D-4494-B784-855FB229D32F@luceatlux.com>
	<21140632.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <4950BC5C.1050608@ekoinf.net>

in this situation I would ask to show a portfolio CD or examples of 
software created by the person - the most important thing being 
experience and ability to complete a product in whatever language the 
person feels most comfortable.

I guess it would be also fair to say that GUI will be created using 
Revolution RAD and definitely one can expand it with modules written in 
C++/C.

BTW correct me please, this may be wrong impression, but it looks like 
C++/C adoration is something specific to the USA, isn't it? I know many 
IT companies in my country and elsewhere in Europe who "do not do C" and 
deliver their products (accounting systems, research software, etc...) 
in Delphi, Java, Abap and the fact that they "do not do C" seems having 
zero impact on their successful businesses...

Best wishes!
Viktoras

Peter Alcibiades wrote:
> It still sounds as if you're failing to probe the question/objection, and it
> will be impossible to answer it unless you find out exactly what it is.  Is
> it support?  Is it a concern about robustness?  Is it a matter of internal
> company policy?  What were they expecting it to be written in?  C?  Python? 
> Perl? VB? It will take different things in each case to answer it.
>
> Imagine someone is delivering a proposal to a company you work for, and when
> asked exactly that same question, replies, it will be written in Scheme. 
> She goes on to explain that she is more productive in Scheme than any other
> language, she can deliver cross platform apps of the sort you are asking for
> in a tenth of the time, and she offers to do an instant demo for you of
> something that would take several hours in C, in about 10 minutes.
>
> What do you say to her, and what do you think, and what do you say to your
> colleagues when you talk to them about it?
>   



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Tue Dec 23 06:03:36 2008
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 21:03:36 +1000
Subject: Widow control
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812221728w1c1d2fcfp1902118bf24c720f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812221728w1c1d2fcfp1902118bf24c720f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860812230303s638528bayb8689e8d1061ee2c@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 11:28 AM, william humphrey <shoreagent at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to figure out how to stop filling a field and move on to the next
> field without breaking a "paragraph" in the middle.Fixed subject to "Widow
> Control"
>
> Say the field is ten lines long and you have fifty rows of data and you want
> to split the data into the ten line long fields without breaking a paragraph
> in the middle unless a paragraph is over ten lines long and you have to
> (although that is rare).
>
> I'm having trouble figuring out an easy way to walk through these lines of
> data and put in the breaks as need be. One of the problems is you can't say
> there are five pages in total (50 / 10 ) as sometimes a page will only have
> say six rows because in order to have widow control you have to start the
> next six or seven line long paragraph on the next page.
>
> Any simple ideas on how I should look at this differently?

I'm not sure I completely understand the problem, but I suggest
looking at the formattedHeight of the field.

in pseudo-code:

put the complete text into the field
repeat until the formattedHeight of the field is less than the actual
height of the field
   delete the last line of the field
end repeat

see how many lines are in the field
delete that many lines from the start of the original data
move to the next field and repeat the process

HTH,
Sarah


From alptex2 at orwell.net  Tue Dec 23 06:22:40 2008
From: alptex2 at orwell.net (Tim Ponn)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 06:22:40 -0500
Subject: Where's the file?
Message-ID: <4C9DA362-E978-435F-98C9-39CB13FA2402@orwell.net>

Hello all...

This strikes me as odd.  I frequently use text files as containers of  
data (prefs, and the like) in my stacks.  On openStack, I put the path  
of the folder containing the stack into a global so I can use it  
later.  Not a problem when I'm running as a stack...text files are  
created and modified as expected during use (I use get/put URL).

put "Whatever" into url ("file:"&appFolderPath&"HereIAm.txt")
get url ("file:"&appFolderPath&"HereIAm.txt")

When I open the text file later with a text editor, I see what I  
expect to see.

However, when I make a standalone app of the stack, I no longer see  
the text files in the folder.  Are these text files being set as  
"invisible" in the finder?

I'm running Enterprise 2.8.1 in OSX 10.5.6.



Best Regards,

Timothy R. Ponn






From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Dec 23 06:34:02 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 12:34:02 +0100
Subject: [ANN][EN][FR] How to implement payments using Paypal free tutorial
	by So Smart Software
Message-ID: <D27D061D-9260-4C1C-8736-2DD506D214BD@sosmartsoftware.com>

Paris, Tuesday, December 23, 2008

---------------------- English version -------------------------

I'm happy to announce that 'How to implement Paypal payment or  
donation into your projects' tutorial #028 is available:

This stack takes you by the hand step by step and demonstrates how it  
is easy!
You just need an email address (no website).
Paypal web tools make the job for you.
Then a oneliner is enough in your project.

If you have downloaded the Tutorial Watcher plugin, you have been or  
will be automatically informed at next Rev startup.
You will access this tutorial through "Tutorials Picker" a free  
plugin that interfaces with the So Smart Software website in order to  
display all available tutorials stacks directly from the web.
You will find it by going to http://www.sosmartsoftware.com -  
Revolution/Plugins or Tutorials section.
You can also download this tutorial separately from the website.

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.

If you don't want to be on this low traffic list, you can unsubscribe  
by emailing to mailinglist at sosmartsoftware.com with  
"unsubscribe" (without the quotes) in the subject line.

--------------------- Version fran?aise ------------------------

J'ai de plaisir d'annoncer la sortie du didacticiel #028 'Comment  
impl?menter paiements et donations dans vos projets avec Paypal'

Cette pile vous prend par la main pour vous d?montrer comme c'est  
facile !
Vous avez seulement besoin d'une adresse mail (pas de site web).
Les outils web de Paypal travaillent pour vous.
Ensuite une seule ligne de code suffit dans votre projet.

Si vous avez install? le plugin "Tutorials Watcher", vous le savez  
d?j? ou serez inform? au prochain d?marrage de Revolution.
Pour avoir acc?s ? ce didacticiel, t?l?chargez "Tutorials Picker", un  
plugin gratuit qui communique directement avec le site de So Smart  
Software afin d'afficher tous les didacticels disponibles depuis le  
web dans leur derni?re version.
Rendez-vous sur http://www.sosmartsoftware.com - Revolution/Section  
Plugins ou didacticiels.
Vous pouvez ?galement t?l?charger ce didacticiel s?par?ment depuis le  
site.

Cordialement,
Eric Chatonet.

Si vous souhaitez vous d?sinscrire de cette liste, envoyez un mail ?  
mailinglist at sosmartsoftware.com avec "unsubscribe" (sans les  
guillemets) comme sujet.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Pour les institutionnels, les entreprises et les associations
Des logiciels sur mesure : gestion, multim?dia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS et Linux... Avec la "french touch"

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Web site		http://www.sosmartsoftware.com
Email		eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com
Phone		33 (0) 143 317 762
Mobile		33 (0) 620 745 086
-------------------------------------------------------------------



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Dec 23 07:31:23 2008
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 13:31:23 +0100
Subject: Where's the file?
In-Reply-To: <4C9DA362-E978-435F-98C9-39CB13FA2402@orwell.net>
References: <4C9DA362-E978-435F-98C9-39CB13FA2402@orwell.net>
Message-ID: <75B6FA28-93CA-4D1D-BC31-672812AB8D4D@major-k.de>

Hi Timm,

> Hello all...
>
> This strikes me as odd.  I frequently use text files as containers  
> of data (prefs, and the like) in my stacks.  On openStack, I put the  
> path of the folder containing the stack into a global so I can use  
> it later.  Not a problem when I'm running as a stack...text files  
> are created and modified as expected during use (I use get/put URL).
>
> put "Whatever" into url ("file:"&appFolderPath&"HereIAm.txt")
> get url ("file:"&appFolderPath&"HereIAm.txt")
>
> When I open the text file later with a text editor, I see what I  
> expect to see.
>
> However, when I make a standalone app of the stack, I no longer see  
> the text files in the folder.  Are these text files being set as  
> "invisible" in the finder?

No, but your files can be found INSIDE of the application bundle :-)

"the path of the folder containing the stack" is this one in a  
standalone on OS X:
../Name_of_your_standalone.app/Contents/MacOS/

Your text files can be found in this folder!
Right-Click on your standalone and select "Show contents" to check it  
out

> I'm running Enterprise 2.8.1 in OSX 10.5.6.

You will have to take this into account when initializing your global  
variable:

...
put the filename of stack "Mainstack a.k.a. the standalone" into  
tFilename
set itemdel to "/"
if the platform = "MacOS" then
    delete item -4 to -1 of tFilename
else
   delete item -1 of tFilename
end if

global appFolderPath
put tFilename & "/" into appFolderPath
...

You get the picture :-)

> Best Regards,
>
> Timothy R. Ponn

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de




From shoreagent at gmail.com  Tue Dec 23 08:53:18 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 09:53:18 -0400
Subject: Widow control
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860812230303s638528bayb8689e8d1061ee2c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812221728w1c1d2fcfp1902118bf24c720f@mail.gmail.com>
	<f99b52860812230303s638528bayb8689e8d1061ee2c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812230553r6cbdf0bbw6667235356f9c95b@mail.gmail.com>

I never new about the formattedheight command. I don't think it will help
though because I already know exactly how many lines of text the field will
hold I just don't know how many lines of text to put into the field to avoid
breaking a paragraph in the middle as much as possible.


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 23 09:17:30 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 06:17:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: the grabbedObject?
Message-ID: <106141.46710.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Unfortunately following 

"http://www.tactilemedia.com/site_files/downloads/drag_sampler.rev"

allows one to grab only an error message.

to grab the "drag_sampler.rev" one has to go to

http://www.tactilemedia.com/

and then navigate via the SOFTWARE button and TUTORIALS.

Well worth the extra effort!

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From DunbarX at aol.com  Tue Dec 23 09:19:13 2008
From: DunbarX at aol.com (DunbarX at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 09:19:13 EST
Subject: Widow control
Message-ID: <c78.47c13f14.36824d61@aol.com>

I thought I was pretty good at crunching data. But I don't understand your 
post. Can you reply with an example of the text you want to put into these ten 
line fields, with an egregious example of data that you cannot divvy up? I have 
had to do this sort of thing all my life, sometimes placing invisible control 
characters into text that I can later use as delimiters. 

Let's see...

Craig Newman


**************
One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL 
Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&amp;
icid=aolcom40vanity&amp;ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025)


From alptex2 at orwell.net  Tue Dec 23 09:28:29 2008
From: alptex2 at orwell.net (Tim Ponn)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 09:28:29 -0500
Subject: Where's the file?
In-Reply-To: <75B6FA28-93CA-4D1D-BC31-672812AB8D4D@major-k.de>
References: <4C9DA362-E978-435F-98C9-39CB13FA2402@orwell.net>
	<75B6FA28-93CA-4D1D-BC31-672812AB8D4D@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <A2D2A7AB-953E-446F-8373-AED247DA35BE@orwell.net>

Hi Klaus,

> No, but your files can be found INSIDE of the application bundle :-)
>
> "the path of the folder containing the stack" is this one in a  
> standalone on OS X:
> ../Name_of_your_standalone.app/Contents/MacOS/
>
> Your text files can be found in this folder!
> Right-Click on your standalone and select "Show contents" to check  
> it out
>>

Well,  I guess you can now tell that I am a relative newbie at  
OSX...only a couple years into it.  Having lived thru apple's change  
in system 7 years ago, I am VERY cautious about OS change.  So much of  
my perspective on OS X is still pre-OS X.

Thanks for the education!


> You will have to take this into account when initializing your  
> global variable:
>
> ...
> put the filename of stack "Mainstack a.k.a. the standalone" into  
> tFilename
> set itemdel to "/"
> if the platform = "MacOS" then
>   delete item -4 to -1 of tFilename
> else
>  delete item -1 of tFilename
> end if
>
> global appFolderPath
> put tFilename & "/" into appFolderPath
>
> You get the picture :-)



Yes....I do something like...

global appFolderPath

on openStack
   set the itemDelimiter to "/"
   put (item 1 to -2 of the effective filename of this stack)&"/" into  
appFolderPath
   get url ("file:"&appFolderPath&"AllUserData.txt")
   if it is empty then
     answer "Sorry, I can't find a user data file!" with "Oops!"
     restoreUserData
     get url ("file:"&appFolderPath&"AllUserData.txt")
   end if
   ...
   ...
   ...
end openStack

Eventually, I'll add in the other platforms


Thanks again!


Best Regards,

Timothy R. Ponn






From shoreagent at gmail.com  Tue Dec 23 09:37:35 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 10:37:35 -0400
Subject: Widow control
In-Reply-To: <c78.47c13f14.36824d61@aol.com>
References: <c78.47c13f14.36824d61@aol.com>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812230637u7a41ab9erfb1846df2eba9eeb@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks
many lines of text as follows. "$" symbol changes where it is depending on
text inpot

$line one
line two
$line three
$line four
line five
line six
$line seven
$line eight
$line nine
line ten

now lets say the field to put the text into is four lines long. We want to
avoid widows so text would break up like this.

 field iteration # 1-- page 1 of 3
$line one
line two
$line three
<break>

field iteration #2 -- page 2 of 3
$line four
line five
line six
$line seven
<break> -- happens to fail on exactly fourth line

field iteration #3 -- page 3 of 3
$line eight
$line nine
line ten
<break> -- ran out of data

This widow control thing is a common attribute of page layout programs. I'm
making a manifest for shipping and I'm trying to avoid having the cargo
information for a bill of lading header fall on the next page. The dollar
symbols are actually not there but I can look for what is there which is
actually lack of header information in that line of data.

The problem becomes harder for me to wrap my head around because I also need
to put page 1 of total pages on each page.

Thanks for your interest and help.

Bill


From shoreagent at gmail.com  Tue Dec 23 10:05:29 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:05:29 -0400
Subject: Widow control
In-Reply-To: <37641.32691.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <37641.32691.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812230705n3ec58a57o2cd9fcaf01e8a96@mail.gmail.com>

Richard
You were thinking of "Divorce Control" or maybe "Cuckhold Control" or even
"Concubine Control" which is a very different field than word processing, as
you pointed out...

On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 4:52 AM, Richmond Mathewson <geradamas at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Wow! As a happily married man, widow control is somewhere outside
> my field: surely this is something for gigolos more conversant in a
> Rapine Revolution than a Runtime Revolution?
>
> In the last several postings we have had:
>
> "pressing my button"
>
> and
>
> "widow control"
>
> Have a Happy Christmas!
>
> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
>
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life
> Cycle.
> ____________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.bluewatermaritime.com


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 23 12:31:32 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 09:31:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Online EFL exercises for Offline use?
Message-ID: <447855.67206.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I was looking at:

http://a4esl.org/q/h/mc006-ck.html

and thought; that would be good to throw at some kids in the school.

HOWEVER: I don't have internet access in the school because it is both
expensive and a distraction from the job in hand.

So, I put together a stack with a scrolling text-field and did this:

set the htmlText of fld "fTEXT" to URL "http://a4esl.org/q/h/mc006-ck.html" 

and I got the formatted text of the webpage; but not the buttons.

Then it occurred to me that a RR-based web-browser was not what I needed.

What I need is a reverse of the stack I authored about 5 years ago
with Marielle Lange (then based in Edinburgh, and then, not being
either anti-Runtime Revolution or anti-Richmond): a stack that would
convert HTML into RR.

This is probably a naive question:  Has anybody done this successfully?

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From bobs at twft.com  Tue Dec 23 12:37:19 2008
From: bobs at twft.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 09:37:19 -0800
Subject: Cursor pointer (the current record)
Message-ID: <BC885319-2EEE-459C-9CFF-27D108CA665C@twft.com>

Hi all.

I find this odd. When I first get a cursor and then check the  
condition of beginning of file, I get true. The record number is 0.  
Okay. But when I get the data from the cursor for that record, I do  
not get null values I get the data from the first record. Hmmm....  
alright. So I go to the first record in the cursor. The record number  
is still ZERO!

Okay, so then I go to the first record then go previous. The record is  
still zero and data is the data in the first record. I go next after  
that and I am still at record zero, and the data is the same as before!

A similar thing happens on the last record. I get eof true when on the  
last record. I can live with this, but does that mean that when I  
return a record number of 364 I am actually at record 365?? What an  
odd way of doing things if so. I cannot very well present to my user  
that they are on record zero. I can always add one for display  
purposes but keep my real record number as it is, I just find this  
behavior very odd.

A BOF condition is usually true if a record pointer is one record  
BEFORE the first record. And EOF condition is usually true if the  
pointer is on a record one PAST the last one. That way I can check for  
(BOF or EOF) and know I am pointed at a valid record. I can also  
continue a loop until EOF and know that I have no more records to  
process, NOT that I have one more to go!

FUNCTION checkitout theRecord
     put revdb_movefirst(mCursor) into mres
     put revCurrentRecord(mcursor) into mrecord -- returns 0!
     put revdb_movelast(mCursor) into mres
     put revCurrentRecord(mcursor) into mrecord -- returns one less  
than the record count
     put revdb_movenext(mCursor) into mres
     put revCurrentRecord(mcursor) into mrecord -- returns the same  
thing
END checkitout

Anyone else find this odd?

Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Dec 23 12:42:01 2008
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 09:42:01 -0800
Subject: the grabbedObject?
In-Reply-To: <106141.46710.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C57662E9.3E6A9%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> Unfortunately following
> 
> "http://www.tactilemedia.com/site_files/downloads/drag_sampler.rev"
> 
> allows one to grab only an error message.

And if one read the original post, they would have realized that they could
execute the entire line in their Revolution message box and run the stack
within Revolution, no Web browser necessary:

go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/site_files/downloads/drag_sampler.rev"

Not much effort at all.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design




From jacques.hausser at unil.ch  Tue Dec 23 12:45:16 2008
From: jacques.hausser at unil.ch (Jacques Hausser)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 18:45:16 +0100
Subject: backscript and custom properties
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812230705n3ec58a57o2cd9fcaf01e8a96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <37641.32691.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<459b22a90812230705n3ec58a57o2cd9fcaf01e8a96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F6448B77-955D-45AE-8C1B-067100E6CCC1@unil.ch>

Hello everybody

I just discovered accidentally that when a button's script is inserted  
as a backscript, it doesn't go there alone, but takes with it its  
custom properties, getprop and tutti quanti.
That could be very useful... Has somebody some experience with this  
feature ?
(I discovered also that the inspector doesn't display the "pure"  
custom property, but the property as modified by the getprop... that  
is perhaps not so good).
Happy Christmas (or any other solstice-linked celebration) to you.

Jacques

******************************************
Prof. Jacques Hausser
Department of Ecology and Evolution
Biophore / Sorge
University of Lausanne
CH 1015 Lausanne
please use my private address:
6 route de Burtigny
CH-1269 Bassins
tel/fax: 	++ 41 22 366 19 40
mobile:	++ 41 79 757 05 24
E-Mail:	jacques.hausser at unil.ch
*******************************************



From DunbarX at aol.com  Tue Dec 23 12:45:18 2008
From: DunbarX at aol.com (DunbarX at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 12:45:18 EST
Subject: Widow control
Message-ID: <d61.3e04514a.36827dae@aol.com>

So you have ten lines of data that have to fit into three four line fields? 
And this does not divide evenly so you made two sets of three lines and one set 
of four?   Could there have been another possible valid breakup of that data 
into the three fields? And the data might of necessity run to a group of five 
lines, creating a widow (or in another scenario, an orphan)?

That you have to add a page numbering line just reduces the available field 
lines from four to three, correct?

Did you note that all my comments are questions?

Is one entire record that original ten lines? Or does it comprise more than 
one record? Do the "$" symbols indicate logical separations in the data? If so, 
do not these delimit your data cleanly so you can parse it?

I see a pile of lines that has to be broken in some controlled way into 
smaller piles based on some logic that keeps certain lines together. I thought you 
had added the "$" signs for just that purpose; a superfluous delimiter that 
you can use to do the breaking up, and then delete en masse. I assume you always 
know where to put the delimiters based on the structure of your data and the 
way it needs to be outputted.

Why do I think I am not getting it?

Craig Newman


**************
One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL 
Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&amp;
icid=aolcom40vanity&amp;ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025)


From jacques.hausser at unil.ch  Tue Dec 23 13:06:38 2008
From: jacques.hausser at unil.ch (Jacques Hausser)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:06:38 +0100
Subject: Widow control
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812230705n3ec58a57o2cd9fcaf01e8a96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <37641.32691.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<459b22a90812230705n3ec58a57o2cd9fcaf01e8a96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <37602B27-0D9D-4016-98CB-F1C15F9A9D49@unil.ch>

We have the same typographic expression in french, but we usually  
carefully precise *lignes* veuves... or orphelines, depending if they  
are at the beginning or at the end of a paragraph. To escape some  
misinterpretations...

Jacques

Le 23 d?c. 2008 ? 16:05, william humphrey a ?crit :

> Richard

-- Oups ! Be careful...

> You were thinking of "Divorce Control" or maybe "Cuckhold Control"  
> or even
> "Concubine Control" which is a very different field than word  
> processing, as
> you pointed out...
>
> On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 4:52 AM, Richmond Mathewson <geradamas at yahoo.com 
> >wrote:
>
>> Wow! As a happily married man, widow control is somewhere outside
>> my field: surely this is something for gigolos more conversant in a
>> Rapine Revolution than a Runtime Revolution?
>>
>> In the last several postings we have had:
>>
>> "pressing my button"
>>
>> and
>>
>> "widow control"
>>
>> Have a Happy Christmas!
>>
>> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>>
>> A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life
>> Cycle.
>> ____________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

******************************************
Prof. Jacques Hausser
Department of Ecology and Evolution
Biophore / Sorge
University of Lausanne
CH 1015 Lausanne
please use my private address:
6 route de Burtigny
CH-1269 Bassins
tel/fax: 	++ 41 22 366 19 40
mobile:	++ 41 79 757 05 24
E-Mail:	jacques.hausser at unil.ch
*******************************************



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Dec 23 13:42:31 2008
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 10:42:31 -0800
Subject: Widow control
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812230705n3ec58a57o2cd9fcaf01e8a96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <37641.32691.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<459b22a90812230705n3ec58a57o2cd9fcaf01e8a96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <156479049453.20081223104231@ahsoftware.net>

william-

Tuesday, December 23, 2008, 7:05:29 AM, you wrote:

> You were thinking of "Divorce Control" or maybe "Cuckhold Control" or even
> "Concubine Control" which is a very different field than word processing, as
> you pointed out...

...but very close to World Processing...
...and related to Date Processing as well...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From lists at futilism.com  Tue Dec 23 14:51:11 2008
From: lists at futilism.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:51:11 +0000
Subject: backscript and custom properties
In-Reply-To: <F6448B77-955D-45AE-8C1B-067100E6CCC1@unil.ch>
References: <37641.32691.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<459b22a90812230705n3ec58a57o2cd9fcaf01e8a96@mail.gmail.com>
	<F6448B77-955D-45AE-8C1B-067100E6CCC1@unil.ch>
Message-ID: <BADCABB7-CF6D-4EC1-AFD1-77138D9525C3@futilism.com>

Jaques, you're right - the script can still refer to 'me'. I use  
buttons as libraries quite often, and the fact that a button's CPs  
are available can be very useful.

I don't tend to use getProp and setProp handlers in those 'button'  
libraries much - you'd still have to refer to the button's name or  
ID, and I generally just want a libraries commands and function  
available.

I'm not sure what you'd expect a setProp handler to do other than  
modify a property, so I don't think I understand what you mean by a  
'pure' custom property...

Best,

Mark

On 23 Dec 2008, at 17:45, Jacques Hausser wrote:

> Hello everybody
>
> I just discovered accidentally that when a button's script is  
> inserted as a backscript, it doesn't go there alone, but takes with  
> it its custom properties, getprop and tutti quanti.
> That could be very useful... Has somebody some experience with this  
> feature ?
> (I discovered also that the inspector doesn't display the "pure"  
> custom property, but the property as modified by the getprop...  
> that is perhaps not so good).
> Happy Christmas (or any other solstice-linked celebration) to you.
>
> Jacques
>
> ******************************************
> Prof. Jacques Hausser
> Department of Ecology and Evolution
> Biophore / Sorge
> University of Lausanne
> CH 1015 Lausanne
> please use my private address:
> 6 route de Burtigny
> CH-1269 Bassins
> tel/fax: 	++ 41 22 366 19 40
> mobile:	++ 41 79 757 05 24
> E-Mail:	jacques.hausser at unil.ch
> *******************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From kkaufman at snet.net  Tue Dec 23 15:26:27 2008
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 15:26:27 -0500
Subject: OT3: loudness wars
Message-ID: <B57370EB-8291-4BA4-AD78-FF7347CE04A1@snet.net>

"...Loud CDs use 'hypercompression' - not
data compression but audio compression in the digital realm, which is
at first interesting but eventually tedious to listen to...."

I remember volunteering at an NPR-affiliate station in South Dakota  
twenty years ago, and I convinced the powers-that-be to drastically  
reduce the amount of audio compression on their FM music broadcasts.   
Most of those broadcasts consisted of "classical" orchestral music  
(along with piano solo and string/piano chamber music, etc.), which  
often contain extremes in recorded volume levels (very quiet vs. very  
loud).  But the compression was awful, it would always kick-in right  
after the beginning of a loud passage, squelching the music, and would  
conversely suddenly bring up the volume of a quiet passage.  This  
would distort the flow of the music, making it sound bizarre and  
artificial.

Kurt


From geradamas at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 23 15:37:57 2008
From: geradamas at yahoo.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 12:37:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: the grabbedObject?
Message-ID: <968856.28547.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Scott Rossi wrote:

"And if one read the original post, they would have realized that they could
execute the entire line in their Revolution message box and run the stack
within Revolution, no Web browser necessary:

go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/site_files/downloads/drag_sampler.rev"

Not much effort at all."

I stand corrected.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

____________________________________________________________

A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.
____________________________________________________________


      


From shoreagent at gmail.com  Tue Dec 23 15:41:43 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:41:43 -0400
Subject: Widow control
In-Reply-To: <d61.3e04514a.36827dae@aol.com>
References: <d61.3e04514a.36827dae@aol.com>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812231241j719eab8dl659c1634f4da7dfd@mail.gmail.com>

One entire record varies from one line (not a problem) to several hundred
lines. The actual fields in the real scenario are 37 lines long. Since the
same field is used over and over again (as each page is sent to the printer)
the number of fields is x. The lines of data are meant to fill the 37 lines
as much as possible without having an orphan.  One orphan set never runs
more than 30 lines.
The page numbering goes in another field. I was only showing it because it
has to be calculated in advance because it will vary because of the
widow/orphan control.

It is kind of simple now that you describe it that way I think my problem
was that I normally do this on the fly instead of going through the whole
thing first.

On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 1:45 PM, <DunbarX at aol.com> wrote:

> So you have ten lines of data that have to fit into three four line fields?
> And this does not divide evenly so you made two sets of three lines and one
> set
> of four?   Could there have been another possible valid breakup of that
> data
> into the three fields? And the data might of necessity run to a group of
> five
> lines, creating a widow (or in another scenario, an orphan)?
>
> That you have to add a page numbering line just reduces the available field
> lines from four to three, correct?
>
> Did you note that all my comments are questions?
>
> Is one entire record that original ten lines? Or does it comprise more than
> one record? Do the "$" symbols indicate logical separations in the data? If
> so,
> do not these delimit your data cleanly so you can parse it?
>
> I see a pile of lines that has to be broken in some controlled way into
> smaller piles based on some logic that keeps certain lines together. I
> thought you
> had added the "$" signs for just that purpose; a superfluous delimiter that
> you can use to do the breaking up, and then delete en masse. I assume you
> always
> know where to put the delimiters based on the structure of your data and
> the
> way it needs to be outputted.
>
> Why do I think I am not getting it?
>
> Craig Newman
>
>
> **************
> One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL
> Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (
> http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&amp;
> icid=aolcom40vanity&amp;ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025)
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.bluewatermaritime.com


From jacques.hausser at unil.ch  Tue Dec 23 18:18:58 2008
From: jacques.hausser at unil.ch (Jacques Hausser)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 00:18:58 +0100
Subject: backscript and custom properties
In-Reply-To: <BADCABB7-CF6D-4EC1-AFD1-77138D9525C3@futilism.com>
References: <37641.32691.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<459b22a90812230705n3ec58a57o2cd9fcaf01e8a96@mail.gmail.com>
	<F6448B77-955D-45AE-8C1B-067100E6CCC1@unil.ch>
	<BADCABB7-CF6D-4EC1-AFD1-77138D9525C3@futilism.com>
Message-ID: <D7BD565A-B3A7-4B02-B510-24256673C0A8@unil.ch>

Thank you Mark,

I didn't speak about setprop (it's perfectly logic, even if not  
compulsory, that a setprop would modify a property) , but about a  
getprop, which, in this case, doesn't change the CP - I tried that:  a  
CP consisting of a basic sentence in a first line, say "xxxx is living  
in yyyy - right or false ?", a second line with a list of species  
names sparated by comma and a third line with a list of biotops  
separated by comma. The getprop takes randomly an item in the second  
line to replace xxxx and an item in the third line to replace yyyy.  
And when you look at the property in the inspector you read at the  
first line something (different each time) like
"Microtus agrestis is living in marshy meadows - right or false ?".  
That's exactly what I want when running the stack, but I would like to  
see "xxxx is living in yyyy - right or false ?" in the inspector -  
that is the real content of the CP (the "pure" CP ;o))

My example is perfectly stupid, because it would be far simpler to  
drop the getprop and to put it's statements into the function but  
well, it's only an example, and it works... the button's back script is:

function DisplayQuestion
    return the question of me
end displayquestion

getprop the question
     put line 1 of the question of me into laquestion
     put item (random(30)) of line 2 of the question of me into word 1  
of laquestion
     put item (random(21)) of line 3 of the question of me into word 5  
of laquestion
     return laquestion
end the question

and anywhere in the stack:

     put DisplayQuestion() into fld "SuchAndSuch"

I was just amazed to discover it was possible to use CPs and getprop  
in a backscript... after all, the command is not "Insert button "truc"  
into back" but "Insert the script of button "truc" into back"...

Jacques

Le 23 d?c. 2008 ? 20:51, Mark Smith a ?crit :

> Jaques, you're right - the script can still refer to 'me'. I use  
> buttons as libraries quite often, and the fact that a button's CPs  
> are available can be very useful.
>
> I don't tend to use getProp and setProp handlers in those 'button'  
> libraries much - you'd still have to refer to the button's name or  
> ID, and I generally just want a libraries commands and function  
> available.
>
> I'm not sure what you'd expect a setProp handler to do other than  
> modify a property, so I don't think I understand what you mean by a  
> 'pure' custom property...
>
> Best,
>
> Mark
>
> On 23 Dec 2008, at 17:45, Jacques Hausser wrote:
>
>> Hello everybody
>>
>> I just discovered accidentally that when a button's script is  
>> inserted as a backscript, it doesn't go there alone, but takes with  
>> it its custom properties, getprop and tutti quanti.
>> That could be very useful... Has somebody some experience with this  
>> feature ?
>> (I discovered also that the inspector doesn't display the "pure"  
>> custom property, but the property as modified by the getprop...  
>> that is perhaps not so good).
>> Happy Christmas (or any other solstice-linked celebration) to you.
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> ******************************************
>> Prof. Jacques Hausser
>> Department of Ecology and Evolution
>> Biophore / Sorge
>> University of Lausanne
>> CH 1015 Lausanne
>> please use my private address:
>> 6 route de Burtigny
>> CH-1269 Bassins
>> tel/fax: 	++ 41 22 366 19 40
>> mobile:	++ 41 79 757 05 24
>> E-Mail:	jacques.hausser at unil.ch
>> *******************************************
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

******************************************
Prof. Jacques Hausser
Department of Ecology and Evolution
Biophore / Sorge
University of Lausanne
CH 1015 Lausanne
please use my private address:
6 route de Burtigny
CH-1269 Bassins
tel/fax: 	++ 41 22 366 19 40
mobile:	++ 41 79 757 05 24
E-Mail:	jacques.hausser at unil.ch
*******************************************



From mdswindell at cruzio.com  Tue Dec 23 19:08:36 2008
From: mdswindell at cruzio.com (Mark Swindell)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:08:36 -0800
Subject: option-drag-to-duplicate feature
Message-ID: <2405FA1B-D151-4005-A613-36717014B327@cruzio.com>

Where does  Rev keep its script for peeling off copies of an object?

Thanks
Mark


From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Tue Dec 23 19:18:40 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 01:18:40 +0100
Subject: option-drag-to-duplicate feature
In-Reply-To: <2405FA1B-D151-4005-A613-36717014B327@cruzio.com>
References: <2405FA1B-D151-4005-A613-36717014B327@cruzio.com>
Message-ID: <1513B26F-293C-4773-A551-AD4AABAA3638@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi Mark,

Probably, this is an engine feature.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to  
discuss your custom software project!

On 24 dec 2008, at 01:08, Mark Swindell wrote:

> Where does  Rev keep its script for peeling off copies of an object?
>
> Thanks
> Mark




From katir at hindu.org  Tue Dec 23 21:25:32 2008
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:25:32 -1000
Subject: Hammering on about Paragraphs
In-Reply-To: <926872.43248.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <926872.43248.qm@web37507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49519D9C.2070308@hindu.org>

Richmond Mathewson wrote:
> Dear Sivakatirswami,
>
> [snip]
>
> I would like to delude myself that, although a mole,
> shovelling away in the dark, I have at least one eye
> open to look at higher things. Where you and I differ,
> perhaps, is that, at present, "higher things" means
> becoming a highly competent Runtime Revolution
> programmer. While this may not result in a particularly
> long-lasting type of peace, it will guarantee that the
> rest of my time on earth is rather comfortable.
>
>   
None of the moles in the dream were meant to represent "Jolly Richmond." :-)

And, the allegory was never meant to fly to such dizzing teleological 
heights. I only hoped to thwart any effort made toward establishing some 
"British Paragraph" (indented) vs "American Paragraph" (block style) in 
Revolution syntax, by our dear RunRev engineers As has been pointed out, 
it would appear, on the surface a least, it a simple matter to test for 
firstIndent property, or   "cr & space" or "cr & cr" etc.

    If anything is every to be achieved toward that end it needs to be, 
as as oft been begged for, full paragraph level styling, ala any old 
word processing program or ala CSS if the latter be more doable. Either 
way would work for me, though the latter seems more appealing -- unless 
we  want portability across processing environments.

Back on Topic:

hmmm me thinks I never did get clarity on precisely what your 
need/problem/challenge is here. What are you trying to solve?

Given the never-to-be-overcome idiosyncracies of data entry, you will 
*still* have to parse and clean up "cr & space&space " invariably 
entered by those who think this is the standard. e.g. you have fields 
set up with no first indent and your users will balk and enter spaces in 
the first line whether you like it or not. In my own apps for volunteers 
doing audio transcriptions, I have, on save,  stuff like this, sweet 
old, non-optimized baby xTalk:

# restore block paragraphs separated by one blank line

replace (cr & " ") with cr in fld "Entry"
replace (cr & "  ") with cr in fld "Entry"
replace (cr & "  ") with cr in fld "Entry"
replace (cr & "    ") with cr in fld "Entry"
replace cr with (cr &cr) in fld "Entry"
repeat 4 times
  replace (cr &cr &cr) with (cr & cr) in fld "Entry"
repeat time

just prior to

replace (cr & cr) with "</p>& cr & <p>"  just prior to converting the 
field to XML for later XSLT transformations...

Not too elegant, but soooooo very obvious -- which is what I so love 
about xTalk.

You could then easily follow up with

# set to indented style

replace (cr & cr) with cr in fld "entry"
set the firstIndent of fld "Entry" to true

skts




From mdswindell at cruzio.com  Tue Dec 23 22:26:51 2008
From: mdswindell at cruzio.com (Mark Swindell)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:26:51 -0800
Subject: option-drag-to-duplicate feature
In-Reply-To: <1513B26F-293C-4773-A551-AD4AABAA3638@economy-x-talk.com>
References: <2405FA1B-D151-4005-A613-36717014B327@cruzio.com>
	<1513B26F-293C-4773-A551-AD4AABAA3638@economy-x-talk.com>
Message-ID: <7AE98681-CFCA-4C92-919B-6366D3586F44@cruzio.com>

Ok.  I wondered if that mightn't be the case... thanks.

Mark


On Dec 23, 2008, at 4:18 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> Probably, this is an engine feature.
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Schonewille
>
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> http://economy-x-talk.com
> http://www.salery.biz
> Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum
>
> We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to  
> discuss your custom software project!
>
> On 24 dec 2008, at 01:08, Mark Swindell wrote:
>
>> Where does  Rev keep its script for peeling off copies of an object?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Mark
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From lists at futilism.com  Tue Dec 23 22:38:07 2008
From: lists at futilism.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 03:38:07 +0000
Subject: backscript and custom properties
In-Reply-To: <D7BD565A-B3A7-4B02-B510-24256673C0A8@unil.ch>
References: <37641.32691.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<459b22a90812230705n3ec58a57o2cd9fcaf01e8a96@mail.gmail.com>
	<F6448B77-955D-45AE-8C1B-067100E6CCC1@unil.ch>
	<BADCABB7-CF6D-4EC1-AFD1-77138D9525C3@futilism.com>
	<D7BD565A-B3A7-4B02-B510-24256673C0A8@unil.ch>
Message-ID: <F79DD075-76B8-4795-95FD-7320C6E17174@futilism.com>

Jaques, apologies for replying to what I thought you wrote instead of  
what you actually wrote :)

I've just tried something similar to what you describe, and you're  
right! I never knew this - I guess this is because the property  
inspector is simply another stack that does it's stuff in it's own  
script rather than some behind-behand-the-scenes engine function. I  
think I'd agree that it's not necessarily desirable - I wonder if  
it's worth calling it a bug?

Best,

Mark


On 23 Dec 2008, at 23:18, Jacques Hausser wrote:

> Thank you Mark,
>
> I didn't speak about setprop (it's perfectly logic, even if not  
> compulsory, that a setprop would modify a property) , but about a  
> getprop, which, in this case, doesn't change the CP - I tried  
> that:  a CP consisting of a basic sentence in a first line, say  
> "xxxx is living in yyyy - right or false ?", a second line with a  
> list of species names sparated by comma and a third line with a  
> list of biotops separated by comma. The getprop takes randomly an  
> item in the second line to replace xxxx and an item in the third  
> line to replace yyyy. And when you look at the property in the  
> inspector you read at the first line something (different each  
> time) like
> "Microtus agrestis is living in marshy meadows - right or false ?".  
> That's exactly what I want when running the stack, but I would like  
> to see "xxxx is living in yyyy - right or false ?" in the inspector  
> - that is the real content of the CP (the "pure" CP ;o))
>
> My example is perfectly stupid, because it would be far simpler to  
> drop the getprop and to put it's statements into the function but  
> well, it's only an example, and it works... the button's back  
> script is:
>
> function DisplayQuestion
>    return the question of me
> end displayquestion
>
> getprop the question
>     put line 1 of the question of me into laquestion
>     put item (random(30)) of line 2 of the question of me into word  
> 1 of laquestion
>     put item (random(21)) of line 3 of the question of me into word  
> 5 of laquestion
>     return laquestion
> end the question
>
> and anywhere in the stack:
>
>     put DisplayQuestion() into fld "SuchAndSuch"
>
> I was just amazed to discover it was possible to use CPs and  
> getprop in a backscript... after all, the command is not "Insert  
> button "truc" into back" but "Insert the script of button "truc"  
> into back"...
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 23 d?c. 2008 ? 20:51, Mark Smith a ?crit :
>
>> Jaques, you're right - the script can still refer to 'me'. I use  
>> buttons as libraries quite often, and the fact that a button's CPs  
>> are available can be very useful.
>>
>> I don't tend to use getProp and setProp handlers in those 'button'  
>> libraries much - you'd still have to refer to the button's name or  
>> ID, and I generally just want a libraries commands and function  
>> available.
>>
>> I'm not sure what you'd expect a setProp handler to do other than  
>> modify a property, so I don't think I understand what you mean by  
>> a 'pure' custom property...
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> On 23 Dec 2008, at 17:45, Jacques Hausser wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everybody
>>>
>>> I just discovered accidentally that when a button's script is  
>>> inserted as a backscript, it doesn't go there alone, but takes  
>>> with it its custom properties, getprop and tutti quanti.
>>> That could be very useful... Has somebody some experience with  
>>> this feature ?
>>> (I discovered also that the inspector doesn't display the "pure"  
>>> custom property, but the property as modified by the getprop...  
>>> that is perhaps not so good).
>>> Happy Christmas (or any other solstice-linked celebration) to you.
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> ******************************************
>>> Prof. Jacques Hausser
>>> Department of Ecology and Evolution
>>> Biophore / Sorge
>>> University of Lausanne
>>> CH 1015 Lausanne
>>> please use my private address:
>>> 6 route de Burtigny
>>> CH-1269 Bassins
>>> tel/fax: 	++ 41 22 366 19 40
>>> mobile:	++ 41 79 757 05 24
>>> E-Mail:	jacques.hausser at unil.ch
>>> *******************************************
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> ******************************************
> Prof. Jacques Hausser
> Department of Ecology and Evolution
> Biophore / Sorge
> University of Lausanne
> CH 1015 Lausanne
> please use my private address:
> 6 route de Burtigny
> CH-1269 Bassins
> tel/fax: 	++ 41 22 366 19 40
> mobile:	++ 41 79 757 05 24
> E-Mail:	jacques.hausser at unil.ch
> *******************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jacques.hausser at unil.ch  Wed Dec 24 06:10:34 2008
From: jacques.hausser at unil.ch (Jacques Hausser)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:10:34 +0100
Subject: backscript and custom properties
In-Reply-To: <F79DD075-76B8-4795-95FD-7320C6E17174@futilism.com>
References: <37641.32691.qm@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<459b22a90812230705n3ec58a57o2cd9fcaf01e8a96@mail.gmail.com>
	<F6448B77-955D-45AE-8C1B-067100E6CCC1@unil.ch>
	<BADCABB7-CF6D-4EC1-AFD1-77138D9525C3@futilism.com>
	<D7BD565A-B3A7-4B02-B510-24256673C0A8@unil.ch>
	<F79DD075-76B8-4795-95FD-7320C6E17174@futilism.com>
Message-ID: <326C0C8B-7F80-4078-8045-6ABF468EE351@unil.ch>

Mark,

If not a bug, it's very close to it: if you modify the content of the  
CP in the inspector, for my example by adding "The small mammal  
species " at the beginning of the first line, the CP becomes "The  
small mammal species Microtus agrestis lives in marshy meadows" and  
the lines 2 and 3 are lost...
The only secure way  if you want to modify the CP in the inspector it  
to rewrite it entirely (and then to change some references in the  
getprop if necessary).

Best

Jacques

Le 24 d?c. 2008 ? 04:38, Mark Smith a ?crit :

> Jaques, apologies for replying to what I thought you wrote instead  
> of what you actually wrote :)
>
> I've just tried something similar to what you describe, and you're  
> right! I never knew this - I guess this is because the property  
> inspector is simply another stack that does it's stuff in it's own  
> script rather than some behind-behand-the-scenes engine function. I  
> think I'd agree that it's not necessarily desirable - I wonder if  
> it's worth calling it a bug?
>
> Best,
>
> Mark
>
>
> On 23 Dec 2008, at 23:18, Jacques Hausser wrote:
>
>> Thank you Mark,
>>
>> I didn't speak about setprop (it's perfectly logic, even if not  
>> compulsory, that a setprop would modify a property) , but about a  
>> getprop, which, in this case, doesn't change the CP - I tried  
>> that:  a CP consisting of a basic sentence in a first line, say  
>> "xxxx is living in yyyy - right or false ?", a second line with a  
>> list of species names sparated by comma and a third line with a  
>> list of biotops separated by comma. The getprop takes randomly an  
>> item in the second line to replace xxxx and an item in the third  
>> line to replace yyyy. And when you look at the property in the  
>> inspector you read at the first line something (different each  
>> time) like
>> "Microtus agrestis is living in marshy meadows - right or false ?".  
>> That's exactly what I want when running the stack, but I would like  
>> to see "xxxx is living in yyyy - right or false ?" in the inspector  
>> - that is the real content of the CP (the "pure" CP ;o))
>>
>> My example is perfectly stupid, because it would be far simpler to  
>> drop the getprop and to put it's statements into the function but  
>> well, it's only an example, and it works... the button's back  
>> script is:
>>
>> function DisplayQuestion
>>   return the question of me
>> end displayquestion
>>
>> getprop the question
>>    put line 1 of the question of me into laquestion
>>    put item (random(30)) of line 2 of the question of me into word  
>> 1 of laquestion
>>    put item (random(21)) of line 3 of the question of me into word  
>> 5 of laquestion
>>    return laquestion
>> end the question
>>
>> and anywhere in the stack:
>>
>>    put DisplayQuestion() into fld "SuchAndSuch"
>>
>> I was just amazed to discover it was possible to use CPs and  
>> getprop in a backscript... after all, the command is not "Insert  
>> button "truc" into back" but "Insert the script of button "truc"  
>> into back"...
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 23 d?c. 2008 ? 20:51, Mark Smith a ?crit :
>>
>>> Jaques, you're right - the script can still refer to 'me'. I use  
>>> buttons as libraries quite often, and the fact that a button's CPs  
>>> are available can be very useful.
>>>
>>> I don't tend to use getProp and setProp handlers in those 'button'  
>>> libraries much - you'd still have to refer to the button's name or  
>>> ID, and I generally just want a libraries commands and function  
>>> available.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what you'd expect a setProp handler to do other than  
>>> modify a property, so I don't think I understand what you mean by  
>>> a 'pure' custom property...
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> On 23 Dec 2008, at 17:45, Jacques Hausser wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello everybody
>>>>
>>>> I just discovered accidentally that when a button's script is  
>>>> inserted as a backscript, it doesn't go there alone, but takes  
>>>> with it its custom properties, getprop and tutti quanti.
>>>> That could be very useful... Has somebody some experience with  
>>>> this feature ?
>>>> (I discovered also that the inspector doesn't display the "pure"  
>>>> custom property, but the property as modified by the getprop...  
>>>> that is perhaps not so good).
>>>> Happy Christmas (or any other solstice-linked celebration) to you.
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>> ******************************************
>>>> Prof. Jacques Hausser
>>>> Department of Ecology and Evolution
>>>> Biophore / Sorge
>>>> University of Lausanne
>>>> CH 1015 Lausanne
>>>> please use my private address:
>>>> 6 route de Burtigny
>>>> CH-1269 Bassins
>>>> tel/fax: 	++ 41 22 366 19 40
>>>> mobile:	++ 41 79 757 05 24
>>>> E-Mail:	jacques.hausser at unil.ch
>>>> *******************************************
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>> ******************************************
>> Prof. Jacques Hausser
>> Department of Ecology and Evolution
>> Biophore / Sorge
>> University of Lausanne
>> CH 1015 Lausanne
>> please use my private address:
>> 6 route de Burtigny
>> CH-1269 Bassins
>> tel/fax: 	++ 41 22 366 19 40
>> mobile:	++ 41 79 757 05 24
>> E-Mail:	jacques.hausser at unil.ch
>> *******************************************
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

******************************************
Prof. Jacques Hausser
Department of Ecology and Evolution
Biophore / Sorge
University of Lausanne
CH 1015 Lausanne
please use my private address:
6 route de Burtigny
CH-1269 Bassins
tel/fax: 	++ 41 22 366 19 40
mobile:	++ 41 79 757 05 24
E-Mail:	jacques.hausser at unil.ch
*******************************************



From gbrackett at luceatlux.com  Wed Dec 24 10:22:42 2008
From: gbrackett at luceatlux.com (George C Brackett)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:22:42 -0500
Subject: OT2: The 'realness' of languages
In-Reply-To: <21140632.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <50CBC776-182D-4494-B784-855FB229D32F@luceatlux.com>
	<21140632.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <C89C4381-B2B1-4E88-ABD9-7078EA44E02B@luceatlux.com>

Very good questions, Peter.  It was a short meeting and we weren't  
talking about an actual proposal, just a future possibility with even  
that a bit hazy as to requirements.  If we ever get down to a solid  
project, I shall What struck me most was the apparent dismissal of a  
language out of hand.

As for what I would do were I hiring a consultant (as I have done in  
the past), the most important thing to me is not the means the  
consultant might use, but his/her reputation as a capable  
professional, and his/her assurances that my specifications (including  
perhaps a measure of maintainability) can be met.  That might be  
unprofessional of me, I suppose, but so far it's worked.  It aligns  
with an attitude I have about management: hire wisely through  
recommendation and prior accomplishment, clearly specify the goals  
desired, and keep an eye on the work while avoiding interference as  
much as possible.

George

On Dec 23, 2008, at 2:22 AM, Peter Alcibiades wrote:


It still sounds as if you're failing to probe the question/objection,  
and it
will be impossible to answer it unless you find out exactly what it  
is.  Is
it support?  Is it a concern about robustness?  Is it a matter of  
internal
company policy?  What were they expecting it to be written in?  C?   
Python?
Perl? VB? It will take different things in each case to answer it.

Imagine someone is delivering a proposal to a company you work for,  
and when
asked exactly that same question, replies, it will be written in Scheme.
She goes on to explain that she is more productive in Scheme than any  
other
language, she can deliver cross platform apps of the sort you are  
asking for
in a tenth of the time, and she offers to do an instant demo for you of
something that would take several hours in C, in about 10 minutes.

What do you say to her, and what do you think, and what do you say to  
your
colleagues when you talk to them about it?
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/OT2%3A-The-%27realness%27-of-languages-tp21129752p21140632.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From gbrackett at luceatlux.com  Wed Dec 24 10:37:31 2008
From: gbrackett at luceatlux.com (George C Brackett)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:37:31 -0500
Subject: OT2: The 'realness' of languages
In-Reply-To: <4950BC5C.1050608@ekoinf.net>
References: <50CBC776-182D-4494-B784-855FB229D32F@luceatlux.com>
	<21140632.post@talk.nabble.com> <4950BC5C.1050608@ekoinf.net>
Message-ID: <577CEDA4-4174-4F76-8ACE-CA2C20B54768@luceatlux.com>

As you can see from my just-written message, I do agree with you,  
Viktoras!  As for C/C++ mania, I think that language has gotten into  
the mainstream vocabulary here in the US at least.  The others you  
mention are not as well-known except possibly for Java.  I'm glad  
European clients appear more indifferent to such details as language!

George

On Dec 23, 2008, at 5:24 AM, viktoras didziulis wrote:

in this situation I would ask to show a portfolio CD or examples of  
software created by the person - the most important thing being  
experience and ability to complete a product in whatever language the  
person feels most comfortable.

I guess it would be also fair to say that GUI will be created using  
Revolution RAD and definitely one can expand it with modules written  
in C++/C.

BTW correct me please, this may be wrong impression, but it looks like  
C++/C adoration is something specific to the USA, isn't it? I know  
many IT companies in my country and elsewhere in Europe who "do not do  
C" and deliver their products (accounting systems, research software,  
etc...) in Delphi, Java, Abap and the fact that they "do not do C"  
seems having zero impact on their successful businesses...

Best wishes!
Viktoras

Peter Alcibiades wrote:
> It still sounds as if you're failing to probe the question/ 
> objection, and it
> will be impossible to answer it unless you find out exactly what it  
> is.  Is
> it support?  Is it a concern about robustness?  Is it a matter of  
> internal
> company policy?  What were they expecting it to be written in?  C?   
> Python? Perl? VB? It will take different things in each case to  
> answer it.
>
> Imagine someone is delivering a proposal to a company you work for,  
> and when
> asked exactly that same question, replies, it will be written in  
> Scheme. She goes on to explain that she is more productive in Scheme  
> than any other
> language, she can deliver cross platform apps of the sort you are  
> asking for
> in a tenth of the time, and she offers to do an instant demo for you  
> of
> something that would take several hours in C, in about 10 minutes.
>
> What do you say to her, and what do you think, and what do you say  
> to your
> colleagues when you talk to them about it?
>

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From gbrackett at luceatlux.com  Wed Dec 24 10:38:33 2008
From: gbrackett at luceatlux.com (George C Brackett)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:38:33 -0500
Subject: OT2: The 'realness' of languages
In-Reply-To: <C89C4381-B2B1-4E88-ABD9-7078EA44E02B@luceatlux.com>
References: <50CBC776-182D-4494-B784-855FB229D32F@luceatlux.com>
	<21140632.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<C89C4381-B2B1-4E88-ABD9-7078EA44E02B@luceatlux.com>
Message-ID: <359B1F1C-C1A1-41F7-A1E5-A0908F9F5FF6@luceatlux.com>

Oops.  ...I shall take up the issue of language and explore it with  
the client in more detail.  What struck me...
George

On Dec 24, 2008, at 10:22 AM, George C Brackett wrote:

Very good questions, Peter.  It was a short meeting and we weren't  
talking about an actual proposal, just a future possibility with even  
that a bit hazy as to requirements.  If we ever get down to a solid  
project, I shall What struck me most was the apparent dismissal of a  
language out of hand.

As for what I would do were I hiring a consultant (as I have done in  
the past), the most important thing to me is not the means the  
consultant might use, but his/her reputation as a capable  
professional, and his/her assurances that my specifications (including  
perhaps a measure of maintainability) can be met.  That might be  
unprofessional of me, I suppose, but so far it's worked.  It aligns  
with an attitude I have about management: hire wisely through  
recommendation and prior accomplishment, clearly specify the goals  
desired, and keep an eye on the work while avoiding interference as  
much as possible.

George

On Dec 23, 2008, at 2:22 AM, Peter Alcibiades wrote:


It still sounds as if you're failing to probe the question/objection,  
and it
will be impossible to answer it unless you find out exactly what it  
is.  Is
it support?  Is it a concern about robustness?  Is it a matter of  
internal
company policy?  What were they expecting it to be written in?  C?   
Python?
Perl? VB? It will take different things in each case to answer it.

Imagine someone is delivering a proposal to a company you work for,  
and when
asked exactly that same question, replies, it will be written in Scheme.
She goes on to explain that she is more productive in Scheme than any  
other
language, she can deliver cross platform apps of the sort you are  
asking for
in a tenth of the time, and she offers to do an instant demo for you of
something that would take several hours in C, in about 10 minutes.

What do you say to her, and what do you think, and what do you say to  
your
colleagues when you talk to them about it?
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/OT2%3A-The-%27realness%27-of-languages-tp21129752p21140632.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Wed Dec 24 12:16:01 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:16:01 -0800
Subject: TESTING - IGNORE
Message-ID: <e5e009d70812240916r48e1bb41qe3f73d52f89b7c91@mail.gmail.com>

Testing Gmail to REV

-- 
Stephen Barncard
-------------------------
San Francisco


From userev at canelasoftware.com  Wed Dec 24 14:04:37 2008
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 11:04:37 -0800
Subject: [OT] Guy Kawasaki on AM Coast to Coast
In-Reply-To: <494C8E66.7010500@fourthworld.com>
References: <494C8E66.7010500@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <475BD32D-FFAF-468F-A5D7-AF89516C659A@canelasoftware.com>


On Dec 19, 2008, at 10:19 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I don't know if there are many Coast to Coast fans here but I know  
> there's a good number of Kawasaki fans, so find your local affiliate  
> station and enjoy. :)

I first found out about this show one night driving home from one of  
the Rev Gatherings at your home.  Since then, I listen to it whenever  
I am out at that hour on a long drive (without my children).


Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com






From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Dec 25 02:57:11 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 01:57:11 -0600
Subject: [ANN] Merry Stykzmas!  Stykz Public Beta for Mac is Released
Message-ID: <C57898F7.185E9%kray@sonsothunder.com>

Hey everyone! I wanted to let you all know that I've *finally* gotten the
public beta of the Mac version of the stick figure animation program Stykz
out the door and on its own site (www.stykz.net).

Some of you who were at the last RevCon in Las Vegas may recall me
discussing Stykz and the impact that stick figure animation has had on my
children and how popular it has become.

Stykz is based on Rev 3 and will hopefully provide a platform for me to
reach a larger audience on the benefits of using Revolution for development.

In any event, if you or anyone you know might be interested in trying their
hand at this creative endeavor, venture over to www.stykz.net and download
the Mac build and give it a spin.

Hope you all have a great holiday,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From revdev at pdslabs.net  Thu Dec 25 03:26:46 2008
From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 00:26:46 -0800
Subject: [ANN] Merry Stykzmas!  Stykz Public Beta for Mac is Released
In-Reply-To: <C57898F7.185E9%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <C57898F7.185E9%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <495343C6.6000105@pdslabs.net>

Congratulations Ken! What a cool toy. Merry Christmas!
Phil Davis


Ken Ray wrote:
> Hey everyone! I wanted to let you all know that I've *finally* gotten the
> public beta of the Mac version of the stick figure animation program Stykz
> out the door and on its own site (www.stykz.net).
>
> Some of you who were at the last RevCon in Las Vegas may recall me
> discussing Stykz and the impact that stick figure animation has had on my
> children and how popular it has become.
>
> Stykz is based on Rev 3 and will hopefully provide a platform for me to
> reach a larger audience on the benefits of using Revolution for development.
>
> In any event, if you or anyone you know might be interested in trying their
> hand at this creative endeavor, venture over to www.stykz.net and download
> the Mac build and give it a spin.
>
> Hope you all have a great holiday,
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

-- 
Phil Davis

PDS Labs
Professional Software Development
http://pdslabs.net



From katheryn.swynford at gmail.com  Thu Dec 25 03:30:37 2008
From: katheryn.swynford at gmail.com (Judy Perry)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 00:30:37 -0800
Subject: [ANN] Merry Stykzmas! Stykz Public Beta for Mac is Released
In-Reply-To: <C57898F7.185E9%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <C57898F7.185E9%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <4be051070812250030t21704566g2f86874c3f6d0a04@mail.gmail.com>

Can't  wait to run it by my wee ones!
Domo Arigato Ken-san!  (The stykz reference should be obvious enough) ;-)

Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com

On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

> Hey everyone! I wanted to let you all know that I've *finally* gotten the
> public beta of the Mac version of the stick figure animation program Stykz
> out the door and on its own site (www.stykz.net).
>
> Some of you who were at the last RevCon in Las Vegas may recall me
> discussing Stykz and the impact that stick figure animation has had on my
> children and how popular it has become.
>
> Stykz is based on Rev 3 and will hopefully provide a platform for me to
> reach a larger audience on the benefits of using Revolution for
> development.
>
> In any event, if you or anyone you know might be interested in trying their
> hand at this creative endeavor, venture over to www.stykz.net and download
> the Mac build and give it a spin.
>
> Hope you all have a great holiday,
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From tbandi at swissonline.ch  Thu Dec 25 06:06:49 2008
From: tbandi at swissonline.ch (Till Bandi)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 12:06:49 +0100
Subject: Question about revBrowser
In-Reply-To: <ADE5CFDF-CFF3-4FEC-9073-73A40C91D404@swissonline.ch>
References: <ADE5CFDF-CFF3-4FEC-9073-73A40C91D404@swissonline.ch>
Message-ID: <39EFAD2D-07C8-4401-BD12-781FE415BCD3@swissonline.ch>

here everything works as expected. Maybe I did not understand what  
exactly you want to do. Do you want to open your browser with the url  
in your field or do you want to open the stack InetBrowser?

Till

Am 22.12.2008 um 15:25 schrieb Martin Meili:

> Hi everbody
> I've got a question about revBrowser.
>
> If I want to navigate to a URL there is no problem as long as this  
> site is on the first level of different directories, e.g. "http://www.schularena.com 
> ". This URL will also appear in my textfield "url".
>
> But as soon as there is a subdirectory which is opened in a second  
> window, the second part of the url  ("/franzoesisch/envol/envol7/ 
> unite3/mettre_table.htm") is not displayed in my textfield "url" and  
> so I'm not able to navigate to  the entire url "http://www.schularena.com/franzoesisch/envol/envol7/unite3/mettre_table.htm 
> ".
>
> Once again the two urls:
> 1.) http://www.schularena.com
> 2.) http://www.schularena.com/franzoesisch/envol/envol7/unite3/mettre_table.htm
>
> What I want to do is to catch the second URL in order to store it in  
> a textfield besides of other URLs. Through this the user should be  
> able to navigate to any of the in the textfield displayed urls by a  
> simple click on one of these lines.
>
> Anybody there who can help me?
>
> Cheers
> Martin
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mjmackenzie22 at windstream.net  Thu Dec 25 06:19:25 2008
From: mjmackenzie22 at windstream.net (Mark MacKenzie)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 04:19:25 -0700
Subject: Buttons missing images in stand alone
Message-ID: <175C234398224782B0D44158379C2283@OFFICEMARK>

Hi all.  Back in the saddle after some time away from Rev.

I am using Rev. 3 on Windows XP.  Buttons created in Button Gadget Pro and added directly to the current Rev project (electronic calendar) show fine in the development environment but not when testing a stand alone version.

The button images all show in the project image library for the main stack containing the buttons.  Typical image ID is 1260 for example.

I am not sure where to go from here in tracking down why the buttons images don't show in the stand alone app.  The buttons exist in the stand alone app and work however their appropriate images do not and so they present as working but invisible buttons.  Neat trick but not very useful at the moment?

Regards

Mark MacKenzie
Art Conservator & Wet Plate Photographer
Alcalde, New Mexico

From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Dec 25 07:36:28 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 13:36:28 +0100
Subject: [ANN] Merry Stykzmas!  Stykz Public Beta for Mac is Released
In-Reply-To: <C57898F7.185E9%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <C57898F7.185E9%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <323E9B4A-E1C6-4F35-8735-A4B9A2332B60@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonjour Ken,

Great work!
Above all, I appreciate guidelines respect and a perfect layout with  
many well thought details.
Probably could you add balloons and text abilities and, last but not  
least, being able to import an image as a background.

Keep the great work and have a merry Christmas.

Le 25 d?c. 08 ? 08:57, Ken Ray a ?crit :

> Hey everyone! I wanted to let you all know that I've *finally*  
> gotten the
> public beta of the Mac version of the stick figure animation  
> program Stykz
> out the door and on its own site (www.stykz.net).



Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Dec 25 08:19:54 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 14:19:54 +0100
Subject: Buttons missing images in stand alone
In-Reply-To: <175C234398224782B0D44158379C2283@OFFICEMARK>
References: <175C234398224782B0D44158379C2283@OFFICEMARK>
Message-ID: <993088A0-FB57-4496-A2AA-702347DBB563@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonjour Mark,

I don't use Button Gadget but I see two clues only:
1. Images are not available in your standalone because Button Gadget  
library is not included when building your standalone (see Stacks  
pane in standalone builder).
2. Images IDs are changed (I don't trust too much this).

Le 25 d?c. 08 ? 12:19, Mark MacKenzie a ?crit :

> Hi all.  Back in the saddle after some time away from Rev.
>
> I am using Rev. 3 on Windows XP.  Buttons created in Button Gadget  
> Pro and added directly to the current Rev project (electronic  
> calendar) show fine in the development environment but not when  
> testing a stand alone version.
>
> The button images all show in the project image library for the  
> main stack containing the buttons.  Typical image ID is 1260 for  
> example.
>
> I am not sure where to go from here in tracking down why the  
> buttons images don't show in the stand alone app.  The buttons  
> exist in the stand alone app and work however their appropriate  
> images do not and so they present as working but invisible  
> buttons.  Neat trick but not very useful at the moment?

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From randall at randallreetz.com  Thu Dec 25 16:27:22 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Lee Reetz)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 13:27:22 -0800
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
Message-ID: <F2D0DF99-C949-4DC3-9669-7A00279E2FC0@randallreetz.com>

Andre,

I have a need for ongoing conversion of xTalk projects/stacks to  
multiple-simultaneous-user collaborative environment (projects  
running over the web?).

I found your post "Rev and the Web, feedback wanted." and want to  
revisit these concepts to see what has been done and what could be  
done quickly.

Lets agree for now to go with your "helicopters on the bottom of the  
ocean" approach.  As I understand it, you suggest a Rev developer  
would provide links to projects/stacks which the user would download  
along with the appropriate Rev runtime player app.

That is all well and good.  But then what.  What I then need is some  
way to keep track of real time multi-player interaction (some way to  
send data upstream to a server, have that data processed, send  
response data downstream to each applicable client (user).  The same  
problem might be solved as a pure peer-to-peer (no central servers  
involved) topology... theoretically elegant, almost impossible in  
practice.

So, I guess I need some simple advise on how to set up a central  
server running Rev and accepting input from web connections to users,  
and how the user's projects would best package data, send it upstream  
to the server stack and how to for each client stack to listen in to  
the server and accept server processed data.

I need to understand how to send and receive data over the web to  
servers and other clients in real time (from Rev projects).

1. How to set up a connection.
2. How best to keep track of users (clients) along with session  
specific connection address data.
3. How to protect data and transmission.
4. How to pack data and send to server or to clients (protocol and  
standards and handshakes, etc.)
5. How to verify transmission.

The rest I can figure out... the rest is just regular old logic.

Has Rev already written commands and functions to this solution?

Thanks,

Randall


From kkaufman at snet.net  Thu Dec 25 17:27:35 2008
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 17:27:35 -0500
Subject: [ANN] Merry Stykzmas!  Stykz Public Beta for Mac is Released
Message-ID: <A42AA9C7-F71C-4A02-9FA6-4ADEA29130C5@snet.net>

Thanks, Ken.  It looks like lots of fun, and my daughter (12) will be  
putting it through its paces!

Kurt


From runrev260805 at m-r-d.de  Thu Dec 25 18:00:28 2008
From: runrev260805 at m-r-d.de (runrev260805 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 23:00:28 +0000
Subject: [ANN] Merry Stykzmas!  Stykz Public Beta for Mac is Released
Message-ID: <00033A94.49541E9B@the-office.us>

Congratulations Ken! 

Unfortunately i am running Windows only.

I cannot await the beta for windows.

Regards,

Matthias



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [ANN] Merry Stykzmas!  Stykz Public Beta for Mac is Released (25-Dez-2008 8:59)
From:    Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com>
To:      runrev260805 at m-r-d.de

> Hey everyone! I wanted to let you all know that I've *finally* gotten the
> public beta of the Mac version of the stick figure animation program Stykz
> out the door and on its own site (www.stykz.net).
> 
> Some of you who were at the last RevCon in Las Vegas may recall me
> discussing Stykz and the impact that stick figure animation has had on my
> children and how popular it has become.
> 
> Stykz is based on Rev 3 and will hopefully provide a platform for me to
> reach a larger audience on the benefits of using Revolution for development.
> 
> 
> In any event, if you or anyone you know might be interested in trying their
> hand at this creative endeavor, venture over to www.stykz.net and download
> the Mac build and give it a spin.
> 
> Hope you all have a great holiday,
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com




From mfstuart at cox.net  Thu Dec 25 20:13:30 2008
From: mfstuart at cox.net (mfstuart)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 17:13:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Linux user Application Data folder path
Message-ID: <21171023.post@talk.nabble.com>


Merry Christmas to all,

As specialFolderPath(26) returns "C:/Documents and Settings/user/Application
Data" on Windows,
what is the equivilant on Linux?

I need to know the path to the application data and then append the software
company name and application name to it.

Windows eg: C:/Documents and Settings/mark/Application
Data/SoftwareCompanyName/ApplicationName/

Regards,
Mark Stuart
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Linux-user-Application-Data-folder-path-tp21171023p21171023.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Thu Dec 25 20:18:51 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 02:18:51 +0100
Subject: Linux user Application Data folder path
In-Reply-To: <21171023.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <21171023.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <DE413268-107B-4FAB-B651-E09D3B450FB4@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi Mark,

Try this: ~/applications

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to  
discuss your custom software project!

On 26 dec 2008, at 02:13, mfstuart wrote:

>
> Merry Christmas to all,
>
> As specialFolderPath(26) returns "C:/Documents and Settings/user/ 
> Application
> Data" on Windows,
> what is the equivilant on Linux?
>
> I need to know the path to the application data and then append the  
> software
> company name and application name to it.
>
> Windows eg: C:/Documents and Settings/mark/Application
> Data/SoftwareCompanyName/ApplicationName/
>
> Regards,
> Mark Stuart



From mfstuart at cox.net  Thu Dec 25 20:32:20 2008
From: mfstuart at cox.net (mfstuart)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 17:32:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Linux user Application Data folder path
In-Reply-To: <DE413268-107B-4FAB-B651-E09D3B450FB4@economy-x-talk.com>
References: <21171023.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<DE413268-107B-4FAB-B651-E09D3B450FB4@economy-x-talk.com>
Message-ID: <21171105.post@talk.nabble.com>


Hi Mark S.
I can't try it because I don't have a Linux box available now.
But will be putting the application out to beta sometime soon - next year
:).

So if I do the following:
  put specialFolderPath("Preferences") into tPath --for MacOS
  put specialFolderPath(26) into tPath --for Windows
  put ~/applications into tPath --for Linux

This should return me the path to the users applications folder?
And after that if I append the software company name & application name,
this should be OK for storing application information, such application
settings?

Regards,
Mark Stuart


Mark Schonewille-3 wrote:
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> Try this: ~/applications
> 
> --
> Best regards,
> 
> Mark Schonewille
> 
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> http://economy-x-talk.com
> http://www.salery.biz
> Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum
> 
> We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to  
> discuss your custom software project!
> 
> On 26 dec 2008, at 02:13, mfstuart wrote:
> 
>>
>> Merry Christmas to all,
>>
>> As specialFolderPath(26) returns "C:/Documents and Settings/user/ 
>> Application
>> Data" on Windows,
>> what is the equivilant on Linux?
>>
>> I need to know the path to the application data and then append the  
>> software
>> company name and application name to it.
>>
>> Windows eg: C:/Documents and Settings/mark/Application
>> Data/SoftwareCompanyName/ApplicationName/
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mark Stuart
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Linux-user-Application-Data-folder-path-tp21171023p21171105.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From jsng at wayoflife.org  Thu Dec 25 20:35:08 2008
From: jsng at wayoflife.org (Jesse Sng)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 09:35:08 +0800
Subject: OT2: The 'realness' of languages
In-Reply-To: <50CBC776-182D-4494-B784-855FB229D32F@luceatlux.com>
References: <50CBC776-182D-4494-B784-855FB229D32F@luceatlux.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c579e0f2f7b5@[192.168.0.153]>


>She began talking about how I might help with the design, but that 
>of course when the design was finished a software firm would take 
>over the development (presumably in some 'real' language like C).  I 
>didn't bother to tell her I COULD write in C, Java, PERL, PHP and so 
>on, because it would be extraordinarily painful to do so.
>
>Has anyone else run into this issue?  Do you dodge the 'what is it 
>written in' question?  How can we raise the profile of Revolution as 
>a 'real' language?  (Never mind what religion it might resemble!)

What I do is I make it clear that if they want me to do something, 
then they are hiring me to produce something for them and the final 
program is merely the deliverable.

I do point that I am proficient in over half a dozen languages and 
operating systems but it is still my *time* that they end up paying 
for and my choice of development language and operating system has to 
do with my *productivity* which equates to time savings.

I then offer to quote to do it in some other language (or OS) if they 
like and usually that amount is about 2X what we were previously 
negotiating at. I also remind them at that point the maintenane costs 
would be higher and that it would require lots of billable training 
before I can hand the stuff over to one of their staff should they 
want to take over the entire project at some point.

Usually they'll back off. That happened about 18 months ago because 
some new IT 'expert' came into the company and wanted to move 
everything to a Windows only environment and it meant that 
fundamentally changing the way some things were done in that 
particular system and was going to pose to be a real hassle 
especially mid way into the whole project.

My rationale is simple, it takes me more time, the hassle factor is 
higher and in certain situations, my maintenance costs (which will be 
passed down to the client) is also much higher. So ultimately the 
price tag becomes the deterrent.

In the Hypercard days, we were able to show by way of full scale 
demos of actual working apps that our 'toy' language version worked 
better than the 'real' language stuff that some other competitors 
were doing.

Only once did a client (in 1990) actually ask for it to be faster and 
that was only after we had gone through lots of prototyping and had a 
finished app and in those days, we didn't have too many more 
optimizations left that we could do. At that point I fired up 
Prototyper to generate the code for the UI and rewrote the whole 
thing in Object Pascal in under 2 weeks and yes, it did work much 
faster.

I've always found such questions odd and especially since they are 
based more on perception than anything else. Afterall, there was a 
time when PERL, PHP and Java were not considered 'real' languages 
since the prevailing 'wisdom' at the time was that you can't do 
'real' work in an interpreted or bytecode based language and that 
real men only wrote in Assembly and that the really brave men coded 
directly in "1s" and "0s" (reminds me of a Dilbert episode).

It is possible that question is used as a way to determine (very 
superficially) who macho a developer you are based on the language 
that you use. Its like the old days when management promoted a 
programmer based on how many more lines of code he produced than the 
other guy.


Jesse Sng


From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Dec 25 21:09:32 2008
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 02:09:32 +0000
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
In-Reply-To: <F2D0DF99-C949-4DC3-9669-7A00279E2FC0@randallreetz.com>
References: <F2D0DF99-C949-4DC3-9669-7A00279E2FC0@randallreetz.com>
Message-ID: <49543CDC.9090704@tweedly.net>

Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
> Andre,
>
> I have a need for ongoing conversion of xTalk projects/stacks to 
> multiple-simultaneous-user collaborative environment (projects running 
> over the web?).
>
> I found your post "Rev and the Web, feedback wanted." and want to 
> revisit these concepts to see what has been done and what could be 
> done quickly.
I should preface my reply by saying that I haven't read Andre's post for 
quite a long time, so I am replying *just* to the questions raised here, 
not properly in the context of Andre's earlier email.
>
> Lets agree for now to go with your "helicopters on the bottom of the 
> ocean" approach.  As I understand it, you suggest a Rev developer 
> would provide links to projects/stacks which the user would download 
> along with the appropriate Rev runtime player app.
>
> That is all well and good.  But then what.  What I then need is some 
> way to keep track of real time multi-player interaction (some way to 
> send data upstream to a server, have that data processed, send 
> response data downstream to each applicable client (user).  The same 
> problem might be solved as a pure peer-to-peer (no central servers 
> involved) topology... theoretically elegant, almost impossible in 
> practice.
>
First thing you need to consider is what you man by 'real time' and by 
'multi-player'; i.e. do you have strict timeliness requirements (and if 
data cannot be deliverd in time, it should be dropped rather than 
causing a delay for any other data) and how many users are we talking 
about simultaneously.
> So, I guess I need some simple advise on how to set up a central 
> server running Rev and accepting input from web connections to users, 
> and how the user's projects would best package data, send it upstream 
> to the server stack and how to for each client stack to listen in to 
> the server and accept server processed data.
>
" ... from web connections ..." ?   Do you really mean 'web connections' 
or rather 'internet connections' (or even network connections) ? To me 
(old-fashioned ?). 'web connections' means you are already implying HTTP 
/ HTML connections - but I suspect from the later questions that you 
mean 'internet connections'.
> I need to understand how to send and receive data over the web to 
> servers and other clients in real time (from Rev projects).
>
> 1. How to set up a connection.
> 2. How best to keep track of users (clients) along with session 
> specific connection address data.
> 3. How to protect data and transmission.
> 4. How to pack data and send to server or to clients (protocol and 
> standards and handshakes, etc.)
> 5. How to verify transmission.
>
The short answer is probably to look at Bjornke's RevChat applications 
(he has both client and server) at 
http://bjoernke.com/runrev/chatrev.php    That has mature server that 
handles connection setup, tracking clients, data replication, etc.

A longer answer would say things like....

Easiest way to handle connection setup is to have a single central 
server; any client connects to it and is then (potentially) redirected 
to a diferent server or servers for data transmission and/or reception.

How may simltaneous connections need to be handled ?  How much data will 
be expected ? How hard are the 'real-time' requirements ?   If the 
number of receiving clients is small-ish (and./or) the data rate is 
small enough - then replicate all data at the server, sending it all out 
a connection to each client. (this is the place to think about worst 
case data rate, and see what impact you mght get from transmission delay 
at the server).

'protect data and transmission'   Protect in what sense ?  To make sure 
it happens ? - either use TCP or a TCP-based protocol (assuming you can 
afford the lack of real-time characteristics implied),   To ensure data 
is uncorrupted ? - either use TCP or UDP and a app-level checksum.  
Protect from prying eyes - either use ssl or similar, or add app-level 
encryption (and pass keys off-channel).

pack data ?   A very broad question ... depends on so many variables I'm 
not sure I'd know where to start. Look at the (likely) context - do 
users really need to be Basic Broadband (or better) right away to avoid 
Christmas Day mayhem. If so, it is likely you should avoid optimizing 
transmissin charecteristics, and focus on minimal client CPU overhead,

And lots more questions (if it  wasn't already very late Christmas 
evening ....)

-- Alex


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Dec 25 23:29:52 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 22:29:52 -0600
Subject: [ANN] Merry Stykzmas!  Stykz Public Beta for Mac is Released
In-Reply-To: <323E9B4A-E1C6-4F35-8735-A4B9A2332B60@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <C579B9E0.18674%kray@sonsothunder.com>



> Great work!

Thanks!

> Above all, I appreciate guidelines respect and a perfect layout with
> many well thought details.
> Probably could you add balloons and text abilities and, last but not
> least, being able to import an image as a background.

Good suggestions, Eric... they're now on my "to do" list...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From mdswindell at cruzio.com  Fri Dec 26 01:18:03 2008
From: mdswindell at cruzio.com (Mark Swindell)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 22:18:03 -0800
Subject: drag-select over field?
Message-ID: <3C0DA7CD-8D93-4008-9EB5-AF2D623710AE@cruzio.com>

What is the trick to be able to drag out a rectangle to select a group  
of objects where the background is a field whose lockText is true, and  
whose size and location is locked?  In this case I have some buttons  
overlaying a field.  I want the user's cursor to change to the arrow  
tool when clicking on this background field, and then to drag and draw  
a marquee rectangle around the buttons, thereby selecting them.  If  
there is no object behind the buttons this works, but not with a field  
in the background.

Thanks
Mark


From randall at randallreetz.com  Fri Dec 26 01:24:14 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Lee Reetz)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 22:24:14 -0800
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
In-Reply-To: <49543CDC.9090704@tweedly.net>
References: <F2D0DF99-C949-4DC3-9669-7A00279E2FC0@randallreetz.com>
	<49543CDC.9090704@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <35E87698-4051-4F1C-8D23-61474D35FD63@randallreetz.com>

Thank you Alex,

I guess I have to admit here... as usual... being a generalist... I  
have avoided a lot of the detail... so I don't know anything about  
how to send and receive data over the internet.  That is what I need  
to know.  The basics.  The details of the basics.  The rest, I will  
fumble through.  Lets assume I have an xtalk project running on a  
server, and another clint project running on my machine.  How do I  
send a message to the server in such a way that it talks directly to  
the xtalk server project?  And the other way around?

Randall

On Dec 25, 2008, at 6:09 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
>> Andre,
>>
>> I have a need for ongoing conversion of xTalk projects/stacks to  
>> multiple-simultaneous-user collaborative environment (projects  
>> running over the web?).
>>
>> I found your post "Rev and the Web, feedback wanted." and want to  
>> revisit these concepts to see what has been done and what could be  
>> done quickly.
> I should preface my reply by saying that I haven't read Andre's  
> post for quite a long time, so I am replying *just* to the  
> questions raised here, not properly in the context of Andre's  
> earlier email.
>>
>> Lets agree for now to go with your "helicopters on the bottom of  
>> the ocean" approach.  As I understand it, you suggest a Rev  
>> developer would provide links to projects/stacks which the user  
>> would download along with the appropriate Rev runtime player app.
>>
>> That is all well and good.  But then what.  What I then need is  
>> some way to keep track of real time multi-player interaction (some  
>> way to send data upstream to a server, have that data processed,  
>> send response data downstream to each applicable client (user).   
>> The same problem might be solved as a pure peer-to-peer (no  
>> central servers involved) topology... theoretically elegant,  
>> almost impossible in practice.
>>
> First thing you need to consider is what you man by 'real time' and  
> by 'multi-player'; i.e. do you have strict timeliness requirements  
> (and if data cannot be deliverd in time, it should be dropped  
> rather than causing a delay for any other data) and how many users  
> are we talking about simultaneously.
>> So, I guess I need some simple advise on how to set up a central  
>> server running Rev and accepting input from web connections to  
>> users, and how the user's projects would best package data, send  
>> it upstream to the server stack and how to for each client stack  
>> to listen in to the server and accept server processed data.
>>
> " ... from web connections ..." ?   Do you really mean 'web  
> connections' or rather 'internet connections' (or even network  
> connections) ? To me (old-fashioned ?). 'web connections' means you  
> are already implying HTTP / HTML connections - but I suspect from  
> the later questions that you mean 'internet connections'.
>> I need to understand how to send and receive data over the web to  
>> servers and other clients in real time (from Rev projects).
>>
>> 1. How to set up a connection.
>> 2. How best to keep track of users (clients) along with session  
>> specific connection address data.
>> 3. How to protect data and transmission.
>> 4. How to pack data and send to server or to clients (protocol and  
>> standards and handshakes, etc.)
>> 5. How to verify transmission.
>>
> The short answer is probably to look at Bjornke's RevChat  
> applications (he has both client and server) at http://bjoernke.com/ 
> runrev/chatrev.php    That has mature server that handles  
> connection setup, tracking clients, data replication, etc.
>
> A longer answer would say things like....
>
> Easiest way to handle connection setup is to have a single central  
> server; any client connects to it and is then (potentially)  
> redirected to a diferent server or servers for data transmission  
> and/or reception.
>
> How may simltaneous connections need to be handled ?  How much data  
> will be expected ? How hard are the 'real-time' requirements ?   If  
> the number of receiving clients is small-ish (and./or) the data  
> rate is small enough - then replicate all data at the server,  
> sending it all out a connection to each client. (this is the place  
> to think about worst case data rate, and see what impact you mght  
> get from transmission delay at the server).
>
> 'protect data and transmission'   Protect in what sense ?  To make  
> sure it happens ? - either use TCP or a TCP-based protocol  
> (assuming you can afford the lack of real-time characteristics  
> implied),   To ensure data is uncorrupted ? - either use TCP or UDP  
> and a app-level checksum.  Protect from prying eyes - either use  
> ssl or similar, or add app-level encryption (and pass keys off- 
> channel).
>
> pack data ?   A very broad question ... depends on so many  
> variables I'm not sure I'd know where to start. Look at the  
> (likely) context - do users really need to be Basic Broadband (or  
> better) right away to avoid Christmas Day mayhem. If so, it is  
> likely you should avoid optimizing transmissin charecteristics, and  
> focus on minimal client CPU overhead,
>
> And lots more questions (if it  wasn't already very late Christmas  
> evening ....)
>
> -- Alex
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From wjm at wjm.org  Fri Dec 26 01:40:03 2008
From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 01:40:03 -0500
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
References: <F2D0DF99-C949-4DC3-9669-7A00279E2FC0@randallreetz.com>
Message-ID: <gj1u84$hop$1@ger.gmane.org>

Randall,

Thanks to the magic of gmane, I was able to dig up this thread (and link to 
the forum) which this seems based upon.

Andre's post:
http://forums.runrev.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1612

It's a little bit of ancient history now, as Rev is moving forward on two 
fronts. First we are definitely going to have a Web plugin. And second, 
we're going to be stepping up the server scripting (which we've long had) so 
that you can mix snippets of Rev code within your HTML.

We just sent out an announcement for RunRevLive.09, a conference we'll be 
holding in Edinburgh this coming September. At this conference we'll be 
officially launching Rev 4.0, which includes this technology. If you didn't 
get this email, contact support @ runrev.com so you can get in on it. Not 
only can they give you a coupon code [expires Dec 31] which will save you 
60% off the conference admission, but you'll be able to download and use the 
current development build of the plugin. The conference site is at:

http://runrevlive.com/09/index.htm

To answer your questions, Rev already has the commands you need to set up 
the kind of multi-user system you want. The main improvements Rev 4.0 will 
bring are on the distribution front (you can embed your stack in a web page, 
instead of building a standalone executable), and on the implementation 
front (being able to mix Rev code in with your HTML is easier than putting 
up full CGIs). The specific answers to your questions will be in how you 
decide to architect things. For example, whether cookies will suffice, or 
whether you'll want to have some kind of database back-end to track things. 
You can communicate between clients and server using anything from simple 
URL parameters, to POST data, to direct TCP or UDP connections. It all 
depends on what you're needs are, what your trying to do, and what you want 
the user experience to be.

- Bill 





From randall at randallreetz.com  Fri Dec 26 02:48:37 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Reetz)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 23:48:37 -0800
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
Message-ID: <20081226075141.QUEO9346.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>

Id like the simple answer.  In script i have to write ??  to send a message to a project on a server.  What script would need to be on the recieving end?  It is that simple.  No?

-----Original Message-----
From: "Bill Marriott" <wjm at wjm.org>
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Sent: 12/25/2008 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...

Randall,

Thanks to the magic of gmane, I was able to dig up this thread (and link to 
the forum) which this seems based upon.

Andre's post:
http://forums.runrev.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1612

It's a little bit of ancient history now, as Rev is moving forward on two 
fronts. First we are definitely going to have a Web plugin. And second, 
we're going to be stepping up the server scripting (which we've long had) so 
that you can mix snippets of Rev code within your HTML.

We just sent out an announcement for RunRevLive.09, a conference we'll be 
holding in Edinburgh this coming September. At this conference we'll be 
officially launching Rev 4.0, which includes this technology. If you didn't 
get this email, contact support @ runrev.com so you can get in on it. Not 
only can they give you a coupon code [expires Dec 31] which will save you 
60% off the conference admission, but you'll be able to download and use the 
current development build of the plugin. The conference site is at:

http://runrevlive.com/09/index.htm

To answer your questions, Rev already has the commands you need to set up 
the kind of multi-user system you want. The main improvements Rev 4.0 will 
bring are on the distribution front (you can embed your stack in a web page, 
instead of building a standalone executable), and on the implementation 
front (being able to mix Rev code in with your HTML is easier than putting 
up full CGIs). The specific answers to your questions will be in how you 
decide to architect things. For example, whether cookies will suffice, or 
whether you'll want to have some kind of database back-end to track things. 
You can communicate between clients and server using anything from simple 
URL parameters, to POST data, to direct TCP or UDP connections. It all 
depends on what you're needs are, what your trying to do, and what you want 
the user experience to be.

- Bill 



_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Fri Dec 26 03:03:16 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 09:03:16 +0100
Subject: drag-select over field?
In-Reply-To: <3C0DA7CD-8D93-4008-9EB5-AF2D623710AE@cruzio.com>
References: <3C0DA7CD-8D93-4008-9EB5-AF2D623710AE@cruzio.com>
Message-ID: <B087ECF4-F5A7-476D-8B81-E2B031F4477B@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonjour Mark,

'How to select objects using a selection rectangle built on-the-fly'  
tutorial might help you:
This stack shows how to select objects using a rectangle drawn with  
the mouse.
Selection rectangles according to the platform: Mac OS X, Mac OS 9,  
Win XP and Win Vista.
Two selection modes: intersect and enclose.
Requires Rev 2.7 or later.

You will access this tutorial through "Tutorials Picker" a free  
plugin that interfaces with the So Smart Software website in order to  
display all available tutorials stacks directly from the web.
You will find it by going to http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Revolution/Plugins or Tutorials section.

At the moment, 28 tutorials are available through "Tutorials Picker":

How to implement Paypal payment or donation into your projects
How to select objects using a selection rectangle built on-the-fly
How to reorganize a list field manually using Rev 2.9 drag and drop  
feature
How to implement clever auto-completion in entry boxes
How to manage drag and drop #2
How to create custom shaped windows
How to put in place a stars ranking system
How to create custom controls using PNG images
How to master user's data entries in a field
How to Monitor a QuickTime Player by Script
How to Download Data from the Internet
How to Manage Stack Resizing
How to Manage Table Fields
How to Display and Manage Ask Dialogs
How to Display and Manage Answer Dialogs
How to Manage Tabbed Buttons
How to Ask for a Password
How to Manage User's Waiting Time
How to Manage Drag and Drop for Files or Folders
How to Fix Stack Decorations
How to build and Manage Dynamic Menus
How to Manage "Snap to" Scrollbars
How to Create Contextual Tooltips on-the-fly
How to Store Images
How to Create and Manage HTML lists
How to Install "Metal Appearance" on All Platforms
How to Change Card Dimensions Smoothly
How to Magnify Images

Le 26 d?c. 08 ? 07:18, Mark Swindell a ?crit :

> What is the trick to be able to drag out a rectangle to select a  
> group of objects where the background is a field whose lockText is  
> true, and whose size and location is locked?  In this case I have  
> some buttons overlaying a field.  I want the user's cursor to  
> change to the arrow tool when clicking on this background field,  
> and then to drag and draw a marquee rectangle around the buttons,  
> thereby selecting them.  If there is no object behind the buttons  
> this works, but not with a field in the background.
>
> Thanks
> Mark

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Dec 26 03:05:24 2008
From: palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk (Peter Alcibiades)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 00:05:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
In-Reply-To: <gj1u84$hop$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <F2D0DF99-C949-4DC3-9669-7A00279E2FC0@randallreetz.com>
	<gj1u84$hop$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <21172543.post@talk.nabble.com>


Bill, a question:  will it, whatever it turns out to be, work on Linux? 
(Unlike RevBrowser, of course....)
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Andre%27s-post%3A-Rev-and-the-Web...-tp21170116p21172543.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From briany at qldlearning.com  Fri Dec 26 04:10:07 2008
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 01:10:07 -0800
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
In-Reply-To: <20081226075141.QUEO9346.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>
References: <20081226075141.QUEO9346.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>
Message-ID: <0CC2BA5A-5CE6-4B90-9EDB-077493B841CB@qldlearning.com>

Randall,

It sounds like what you need to start with are socket commands. Check  
out the accept, open socket, write to socket, read from socket  
commands. This should give you a place to start playing around with  
simple client / server communication. There are many gaming servers  
written in Java which use socket communication.

SERVER:

accept connections on port 9000 with message "gotConnection"

on gotConnection pSocket
  read from socket pSocket ...
  write "bla bla" to socket pSocket ...
end gotConnection

CLIENT:

open socket to "my.ip.address:9000"
write someData to socket ...
read from socket ...

Once you figure out how to send some small text messages, you can  
start looking at the different options for the socket commands, and  
thinking about what your protocol might look like.

> Id like the simple answer.  In script i have to write ??  to send a  
> message to a project on a server.  What script would need to be on  
> the recieving end?  It is that simple.  No?





From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Dec 26 04:20:27 2008
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 03:20:27 -0600
Subject: [ANN] Merry Stykzmas! Stykz Public Beta for Mac is Released
In-Reply-To: <C57898F7.185E9%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <C57898F7.185E9%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <665591460812260120g77e618a6vc0ba8756fe4c4e50@mail.gmail.com>

Nice job, Ken. Looks wonderful. Sat through your entire tutorial--pretty
cool stuff!


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 26 06:18:10 2008
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 03:18:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
In-Reply-To: <20081226075141.QUEO9346.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>
Message-ID: <533606.58744.qm@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

--- Randall Reetz <randall at randallreetz.com> wrote:
> Id like the simple answer.  In script i have to
> write ??  to send a message to a project on a
> server.  What script would need to be on the
> recieving end?  It is that simple.  No?
> 

Hi Randall,

Brian already suggested looking into the socket
commands for lower-level communication. Excellent
resources for that are in RevOnline > User Spaces >
AlexTweedly > TCP app 1 and 2

You may also want to look at the open-source ChatRev -
a combination of client and server socket
communication to handle a chatroom.

However, Revolution offers a set of higher-level
commands for internet communications, collected in the
libURL library, shipping with Revolution. You'll want
to look at:
- get URL theURL
- post theData to URL theURL
These use the HTTP protocol that drives the world-wide
web.

For the server side, you will want to look into using
the Revolution cgi-engine. Combined with Apache HTTPD
or Microsoft IIS, this allows you to place and execute
scripts on a web server.
Andre Garzia has a series of libraries which make
handling cgi-calls easier, as part of his RevOnRockets
project.

Once you're more familiar with the mechanisms to
communicate between clients and server, we can start
helping you with the problems that will arise when
multiple clients connect.

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam Reports & PDF Library for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


      


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 26 06:25:31 2008
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 03:25:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [ANN] Merry Stykzmas!  Stykz Public Beta for Mac is Released
In-Reply-To: <C57898F7.185E9%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <101105.95347.qm@web65411.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

--- Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:
> Hey everyone! I wanted to let you all know that I've
> *finally* gotten the
> public beta of the Mac version of the stick figure
> animation program Stykz
> out the door and on its own site (www.stykz.net).
> 
> Some of you who were at the last RevCon in Las Vegas
> may recall me
> discussing Stykz and the impact that stick figure
> animation has had on my
> children and how popular it has become.
> 
> Stykz is based on Rev 3 and will hopefully provide a
> platform for me to
> reach a larger audience on the benefits of using
> Revolution for development.
> 
> In any event, if you or anyone you know might be
> interested in trying their
> hand at this creative endeavor, venture over to
> www.stykz.net and download
> the Mac build and give it a spin.
> 
> Hope you all have a great holiday,
> 
> Ken Ray
> 

That looks really great, Ken - and has given me some
ideas for improving my own projects.

Hope you're having a great holiday as well,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam Reports & PDF Library for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


      


From jbv.silences at club-internet.fr  Fri Dec 26 09:57:02 2008
From: jbv.silences at club-internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:57:02 +0100
Subject: [slightly OT] reliability of mySQL & Rev cgi ?
Message-ID: <4954F0B0.EA44D48D@club-internet.fr>

Hi list,

I'm puzzled... I have a Rev cgi script that sends a serie of requests to
a mySQL DB
inside a loop. Those requests are rather complex, for example :

SELECT col1, col2, col3, col4 FROM myTable WHERE myList LIKE "% value1
%" OR
myList LIKE BINARY("% value2 %") OR myList LIKE "% value3 %" OR myList
LIKE "% value4 %" OR...

each request can find up to 1000 records in a table containing about
45000 records.

Here's my problem : let's say my loop can contain 3 successive requests
: Req1, Req2 and Req3.
According to what endusers type in a text field on the webpage that
accesses the cgi script, the
loop can features these 3 requests in different order, and depending on
the order in which these
requests are sent from the cgi script to mySQL, SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT sets
of records are returned...

Actually, it looks like, when the requests are sent in certain orders, a
few records are missing in
the results...

Should I jump to the conclusion that it's a mySQL reliability problem,
or a problem with Rev, or ?

as anyone already experienced anything similar ? In fact I'd like to
know if it's a known mySQL problem
before doing further investigations in possible bugs in my script...
Various google searches haven't brought
anything useful...

I'm using Rev cgi 2.5 with mySQL 4.0.15 on a Linux server.

Thanks,
JB




From kee at kagi.com  Fri Dec 26 11:42:00 2008
From: kee at kagi.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 08:42:00 -0800
Subject: [slightly OT] reliability of mySQL & Rev cgi ?
In-Reply-To: <4954F0B0.EA44D48D@club-internet.fr>
References: <4954F0B0.EA44D48D@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <C908784C-BA27-4BB7-B8C9-AA448D983EF4@kagi.com>

not a mySql guy but I'm betting there is something you could add to  
the statement to get the data in the same order every time.
Kee Nethery


On Dec 26, 2008, at 6:57 AM, jbv wrote:
>
>
> SELECT col1, col2, col3, col4 FROM myTable WHERE myList LIKE "% value1
> %" OR
> myList LIKE BINARY("% value2 %") OR myList LIKE "% value3 %" OR myList
> LIKE "% value4 %" OR...

  order by col1 desc






From randall at randallreetz.com  Fri Dec 26 12:32:38 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Reetz)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 09:32:38 -0800
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
Message-ID: <20081226173542.PTZG11530.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@Inbox>

Everyone is writing as though i know something.  Lets asume i don't.  let's assume i am a guy on the street who happens to know xtalk but knows nothing of the network or internet.  I dont know for "socket" or "port".  All i know is there is a computer running a stack that is permanantly connected to the net that i will call the server.  And there are other computers running stacks that may or may not be connected to the net (that i will call "clients").  The client stacks need to send data to the server stack.  And the other say around.  Client to client communication as well.  I would prefer if all such communications look and act just like xtalk messages.  You know, the web for the rest of us.

Oh, and i am not interested in web pages.  I need superfast communication.  When the client user does something, the server knows right away, and vice versa.  No delay beyond com speed.  Thus the need for com as xtalk messages.

Randall

-----Original Message-----
From: "Brian Yennie" <briany at qldlearning.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: 12/26/2008 1:10 AM
Subject: Re: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...

Randall,

It sounds like what you need to start with are socket commands. Check  
out the accept, open socket, write to socket, read from socket  
commands. This should give you a place to start playing around with  
simple client / server communication. There are many gaming servers  
written in Java which use socket communication.

SERVER:

accept connections on port 9000 with message "gotConnection"

on gotConnection pSocket
  read from socket pSocket ...
  write "bla bla" to socket pSocket ...
end gotConnection

CLIENT:

open socket to "my.ip.address:9000"
write someData to socket ...
read from socket ...

Once you figure out how to send some small text messages, you can  
start looking at the different options for the socket commands, and  
thinking about what your protocol might look like.

> Id like the simple answer.  In script i have to write ??  to send a  
> message to a project on a server.  What script would need to be on  
> the recieving end?  It is that simple.  No?



_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Fri Dec 26 12:42:48 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 18:42:48 +0100
Subject: [OT] Free Stuff for Mac
Message-ID: <346510B8-88D7-4D50-BBF3-03FE4BEED0D0@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi,

In case you didn't know yet...

<http://givingtree.macheist.com/>

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to  
discuss your custom software project!



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Fri Dec 26 12:54:58 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 18:54:58 +0100
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
In-Reply-To: <20081226173542.PTZG11530.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@Inbox>
References: <20081226173542.PTZG11530.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@Inbox>
Message-ID: <0A40D101-3906-4429-8D82-C9CEC100CB55@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonsoir Randall,

I'm afraid you don't want to begin by the beginning, right ;-)
But it's necessary...
Others have not given you fish but fishing rods: is it not better?

To be frank, when I began myself to run into TCP communication, I had  
to make efforts before understanding by MYSELF how it could work.
ChatRev from Bj?rnke von Gierke (to communicate with a server) and  
Alex Tweedly stacks (to try in local mode with two Rev instances),  
all on Rev Online were a great help.
Despite all this, it took me some weeks to feel a bit at ease and I'm  
not sure, I am always ;-)
Good luck!

Le 26 d?c. 08 ? 18:32, Randall Reetz a ?crit :

> Everyone is writing as though i know something.  Lets asume i  
> don't.  let's assume i am a guy on the street who happens to know  
> xtalk but knows nothing of the network or internet.  I dont know  
> for "socket" or "port".  All i know is there is a computer running  
> a stack that is permanantly connected to the net that i will call  
> the server.  And there are other computers running stacks that may  
> or may not be connected to the net (that i will call "clients").   
> The client stacks need to send data to the server stack.  And the  
> other say around.  Client to client communication as well.  I would  
> prefer if all such communications look and act just like xtalk  
> messages.  You know, the web for the rest of us.
>
> Oh, and i am not interested in web pages.  I need superfast  
> communication.  When the client user does something, the server  
> knows right away, and vice versa.  No delay beyond com speed.  Thus  
> the need for com as xtalk messages.
>
> Randall

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Fri Dec 26 12:59:18 2008
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 18:59:18 +0100
Subject: Linux user Application Data folder path
In-Reply-To: <21171105.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <21171023.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<DE413268-107B-4FAB-B651-E09D3B450FB4@economy-x-talk.com>
	<21171105.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <B31B06B8-834E-42ED-B7E4-BE08EC64D08F@economy-x-talk.com>

Hi Mark,

On both Mac and Linux you should use ~/applications. There preferences  
folder is for preferences files, not for standalone applications.

One possible location for a preferences file on Linux is the home  
directory. Make sure to start the name of the file with a period, to  
hide it under normal circumstances. The global variable $HOME returns  
the path to the home directory.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to  
discuss your custom software project!

On 26 dec 2008, at 02:32, mfstuart wrote:

>
> Hi Mark S.
> I can't try it because I don't have a Linux box available now.
> But will be putting the application out to beta sometime soon - next  
> year
> :).
>
> So if I do the following:
>  put specialFolderPath("Preferences") into tPath --for MacOS
>  put specialFolderPath(26) into tPath --for Windows
>  put ~/applications into tPath --for Linux
>
> This should return me the path to the users applications folder?
> And after that if I append the software company name & application  
> name,
> this should be OK for storing application information, such  
> application
> settings?
>
> Regards,
> Mark Stuart



From randall at randallreetz.com  Fri Dec 26 13:18:33 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Lee Reetz)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 10:18:33 -0800
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
In-Reply-To: <0A40D101-3906-4429-8D82-C9CEC100CB55@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <20081226173542.PTZG11530.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@Inbox>
	<0A40D101-3906-4429-8D82-C9CEC100CB55@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <D0B66616-7AE1-4AA5-9714-ECB491DE3179@randallreetz.com>

Yes, it is always good to know.  Or is it?  I am a fan of  
automation.  I am working on an evolving AI scheme.   It sucks  
intelligence out of humans (they don't get hurt in the process).  So  
I am up to my eyeballs in stuff to learn and invent (I've got a  
warehouse full of fishing rods already).  That is the point.  I would  
be all for learning to fish if fishing was my goal.  Which brings me  
to my perennial soap box support of xTalk... that it offloads the  
detail so that developers can concentrate in the high-level goals  
that drive their projects.

Ranndall

On Dec 26, 2008, at 9:54 AM, Eric Chatonet wrote:

> Bonsoir Randall,
>
> I'm afraid you don't want to begin by the beginning, right ;-)
> But it's necessary...
> Others have not given you fish but fishing rods: is it not better?
>
> To be frank, when I began myself to run into TCP communication, I  
> had to make efforts before understanding by MYSELF how it could work.
> ChatRev from Bj?rnke von Gierke (to communicate with a server) and  
> Alex Tweedly stacks (to try in local mode with two Rev instances),  
> all on Rev Online were a great help.
> Despite all this, it took me some weeks to feel a bit at ease and  
> I'm not sure, I am always ;-)
> Good luck!
>
> Le 26 d?c. 08 ? 18:32, Randall Reetz a ?crit :
>
>> Everyone is writing as though i know something.  Lets asume i  
>> don't.  let's assume i am a guy on the street who happens to know  
>> xtalk but knows nothing of the network or internet.  I dont know  
>> for "socket" or "port".  All i know is there is a computer running  
>> a stack that is permanantly connected to the net that i will call  
>> the server.  And there are other computers running stacks that may  
>> or may not be connected to the net (that i will call "clients").   
>> The client stacks need to send data to the server stack.  And the  
>> other say around.  Client to client communication as well.  I  
>> would prefer if all such communications look and act just like  
>> xtalk messages.  You know, the web for the rest of us.
>>
>> Oh, and i am not interested in web pages.  I need superfast  
>> communication.  When the client user does something, the server  
>> knows right away, and vice versa.  No delay beyond com speed.   
>> Thus the need for com as xtalk messages.
>>
>> Randall
>
> Best regards from Paris,
> Eric Chatonet.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From randall at randallreetz.com  Fri Dec 26 13:22:19 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Lee Reetz)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 10:22:19 -0800
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
In-Reply-To: <gj1u84$hop$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <F2D0DF99-C949-4DC3-9669-7A00279E2FC0@randallreetz.com>
	<gj1u84$hop$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1C23A48E-53B0-48C8-9B0B-0C45823D79FE@randallreetz.com>

Thanks Bill.  I hope you are going to provide this functionality  
wrapped into xTalk's easy message passing protocol...

send myClientMessage to myServer

     and...

on myClientMessage
        do blablabla
end myClientMessage

Randall

On Dec 25, 2008, at 10:40 PM, Bill Marriott wrote:

> Randall,
>
> Thanks to the magic of gmane, I was able to dig up this thread (and  
> link to
> the forum) which this seems based upon.
>
> Andre's post:
> http://forums.runrev.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1612
>
> It's a little bit of ancient history now, as Rev is moving forward  
> on two
> fronts. First we are definitely going to have a Web plugin. And  
> second,
> we're going to be stepping up the server scripting (which we've  
> long had) so
> that you can mix snippets of Rev code within your HTML.
>
> We just sent out an announcement for RunRevLive.09, a conference  
> we'll be
> holding in Edinburgh this coming September. At this conference  
> we'll be
> officially launching Rev 4.0, which includes this technology. If  
> you didn't
> get this email, contact support @ runrev.com so you can get in on  
> it. Not
> only can they give you a coupon code [expires Dec 31] which will  
> save you
> 60% off the conference admission, but you'll be able to download  
> and use the
> current development build of the plugin. The conference site is at:
>
> http://runrevlive.com/09/index.htm
>
> To answer your questions, Rev already has the commands you need to  
> set up
> the kind of multi-user system you want. The main improvements Rev  
> 4.0 will
> bring are on the distribution front (you can embed your stack in a  
> web page,
> instead of building a standalone executable), and on the  
> implementation
> front (being able to mix Rev code in with your HTML is easier than  
> putting
> up full CGIs). The specific answers to your questions will be in  
> how you
> decide to architect things. For example, whether cookies will  
> suffice, or
> whether you'll want to have some kind of database back-end to track  
> things.
> You can communicate between clients and server using anything from  
> simple
> URL parameters, to POST data, to direct TCP or UDP connections. It all
> depends on what you're needs are, what your trying to do, and what  
> you want
> the user experience to be.
>
> - Bill
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jbv.silences at club-internet.fr  Fri Dec 26 14:04:18 2008
From: jbv.silences at club-internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 20:04:18 +0100
Subject: [slightly OT] reliability of mySQL & Rev cgi ?
References: <4954F0B0.EA44D48D@club-internet.fr>
	<C908784C-BA27-4BB7-B8C9-AA448D983EF4@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <49552AB0.34FBE3EC@club-internet.fr>



Kee Nethery a *crit :

> not a mySql guy but I'm betting there is something you could add to
> the statement to get the data in the same order every time.
> Kee Nethery
>
> On Dec 26, 2008, at 6:57 AM, jbv wrote:
> >
> >
> > SELECT col1, col2, col3, col4 FROM myTable WHERE myList LIKE "% value1
> > %" OR
> > myList LIKE BINARY("% value2 %") OR myList LIKE "% value3 %" OR myList
> > LIKE "% value4 %" OR...
>
>   order by col1 desc
>

I tried that already but it doesn't help...

I'm sure you're right, there's something I should add to my requests to get the same
results no matter the order in which requests are sent to mySQL, but I still have to
figure out what...
Any wise suggestion is welcome...

JB



From shoreagent at gmail.com  Fri Dec 26 13:58:11 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 14:58:11 -0400
Subject: [slightly OT] reliability of mySQL & Rev cgi ?
In-Reply-To: <49552AB0.34FBE3EC@club-internet.fr>
References: <4954F0B0.EA44D48D@club-internet.fr>
	<C908784C-BA27-4BB7-B8C9-AA448D983EF4@kagi.com>
	<49552AB0.34FBE3EC@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812261058tb273a8fo59496ce06234a6d8@mail.gmail.com>

I haven't used MySQL for a long time and have been using Valentina and
whenever I have a SQL problem one of the mavens on that list usually comes
up with a solution. There must be a MySQL forum where you could ask your
question. Do you also use something like "MySQL Database Wizard" to check
your SQL independently of the SQL you send through RunRev? When working with
Valentina I always have "Valentina Studio" open at the same time as RunRev
so that I can test the SQL that I am later going to send through RunRev.
That way I'm sure that when there is an error it is not a SQL problem. For
SQLite there is a program "SQLiteManager" that helps similarly.


From dalesvp at centurytel.net  Fri Dec 26 14:05:52 2008
From: dalesvp at centurytel.net (Dale Pond)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:05:52 -0700
Subject: HC to Rev conversion help needed
Message-ID: <7E233A4B-2162-47E1-AAAF-2550B8411B7B@centurytel.net>

I need some help. I have a HC stack that was written by a friend who  
no longer computes. Which means it is up to me to convert but it's  
scripting is way over my head. I've attempted it but only partially  
made it work. I use this stack every day in HC but cannot use it at  
all with the Rev stacks. The stack is a very powerful search stack  
that can search any number of stacks ASAP and return the word, string  
or phrase found plus the line it is found in. Clicking on this line  
takes one to the card. I use this stack to search through more than  
130 stacks for quotes and references. It uses the FIND command so it  
searches every word in every field.....

If someone could repair (or guide me to repair) the scripts in this  
stack plus add a new Field of Stacks to search and eliminate the  
additional cards it creates because HC had limited field capacity I  
would donate the stack to the Rev community. And maybe clean up its  
appearance a bit. Any comments on this would be greatly appreciated.  
The stacks are located here:

Original HC stack
http://www.svpvril.com/HC/HyperSearch.hqx

Partially converted Rev stack
http://www.svpvril.com/HC/HyperSearch.rev

Thank you in advance....



From pepetoo at cox.net  Fri Dec 26 15:34:28 2008
From: pepetoo at cox.net (Joe Lewis Wilkins)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:34:28 -0800
Subject: HC to Rev conversion help needed
In-Reply-To: <7E233A4B-2162-47E1-AAAF-2550B8411B7B@centurytel.net>
References: <7E233A4B-2162-47E1-AAAF-2550B8411B7B@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <04510CFB-F5E7-4A79-B167-9EA254B6C59F@cox.net>

Dale,

First of all, I'm pretty sure we also need a stack named "HyperVibes".  
I don't have a lot of spare time right this minute, but I used to use  
a very good search command, though it wasn't quite as thorough a this  
appears to be.

Joe Wilkins

On Dec 26, 2008, at 11:05 AM, Dale Pond wrote:

> I need some help. I have a HC stack that was written by a friend who  
> no longer computes. Which means it is up to me to convert but it's  
> scripting is way over my head. I've attempted it but only partially  
> made it work. I use this stack every day in HC but cannot use it at  
> all with the Rev stacks. The stack is a very powerful search stack  
> that can search any number of stacks ASAP and return the word,  
> string or phrase found plus the line it is found in. Clicking on  
> this line takes one to the card. I use this stack to search through  
> more than 130 stacks for quotes and references. It uses the FIND  
> command so it searches every word in every field.....
>
> If someone could repair (or guide me to repair) the scripts in this  
> stack plus add a new Field of Stacks to search and eliminate the  
> additional cards it creates because HC had limited field capacity I  
> would donate the stack to the Rev community. And maybe clean up its  
> appearance a bit. Any comments on this would be greatly appreciated.  
> The stacks are located here:
>
> Original HC stack
> http://www.svpvril.com/HC/HyperSearch.hqx
>
> Partially converted Rev stack
> http://www.svpvril.com/HC/HyperSearch.rev
>
> Thank you in advance....
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

--
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See   <http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html>
----------------------------------------
Joe Lewis Wilkins
pepetoo at cox.net







From briany at qldlearning.com  Fri Dec 26 15:48:41 2008
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:48:41 -0800
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
In-Reply-To: <1C23A48E-53B0-48C8-9B0B-0C45823D79FE@randallreetz.com>
References: <F2D0DF99-C949-4DC3-9669-7A00279E2FC0@randallreetz.com>
	<gj1u84$hop$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<1C23A48E-53B0-48C8-9B0B-0C45823D79FE@randallreetz.com>
Message-ID: <FB3B11F6-D76B-4A3C-B49E-27A85D43C96F@qldlearning.com>

Randall,

Read the docs on sockets. It's actually not that much harder that what  
you describe below, but you're going to have to at least try it =).  
Once you have a few handlers working, you can have your own higher  
level API.

put "127.0.0.1:8080" into myServer
open socket to myServer
write myClientMessage to myServer

and...

accept connections on port 8080 with message "clientConnection"

on clientConnection tSocket
   read from tSocket until empty with message "myClientMessage"
end clientConnection

on myClientMessage tData
    bla bla bla
end myClientMessage

If you really want a game server, you're gonna have to work at the  
socket level. The above IS "high level" socket programming. As you've  
mentioned, you don't want to just fetch URLs which is the point at  
which xTalk really abstracts away the details.

> Thanks Bill.  I hope you are going to provide this functionality  
> wrapped into xTalk's easy message passing protocol...
>
> send myClientMessage to myServer
>
>   and...
>
> on myClientMessage
>      do blablabla
> end myClientMessage
>
> Randall





From mdswindell at cruzio.com  Fri Dec 26 18:38:32 2008
From: mdswindell at cruzio.com (Mark Swindell)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:38:32 -0800
Subject: drag-select over field?
In-Reply-To: <B087ECF4-F5A7-476D-8B81-E2B031F4477B@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <3C0DA7CD-8D93-4008-9EB5-AF2D623710AE@cruzio.com>
	<B087ECF4-F5A7-476D-8B81-E2B031F4477B@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <2786EE9B-7DA5-4390-BB17-D809ADE78826@cruzio.com>

Eric,

Impressionnant!

Another great help, another big  thanks.  Clear, concise coding and  
commenting.  You should be working in Edinborough. :)

Mark


On Dec 26, 2008, at 12:03 AM, Eric Chatonet wrote:

> Bonjour Mark,
>
> 'How to select objects using a selection rectangle built on-the-fly'  
> tutorial might help you:
> This stack shows how to select objects using a rectangle drawn with  
> the mouse.
> Selection rectangles according to the platform: Mac OS X, Mac OS 9,  
> Win XP and Win Vista.
> Two selection modes: intersect and enclose.
> Requires Rev 2.7 or later.
> Eric Chatonet.


From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Dec 26 19:07:08 2008
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 00:07:08 +0000
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
In-Reply-To: <FB3B11F6-D76B-4A3C-B49E-27A85D43C96F@qldlearning.com>
References: <F2D0DF99-C949-4DC3-9669-7A00279E2FC0@randallreetz.com>	<gj1u84$hop$1@ger.gmane.org>	<1C23A48E-53B0-48C8-9B0B-0C45823D79FE@randallreetz.com>
	<FB3B11F6-D76B-4A3C-B49E-27A85D43C96F@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <495571AC.4040106@tweedly.net>

Brian Yennie wrote:
> Randall,
>
> Read the docs on sockets. It's actually not that much harder that what 
> you describe below, but you're going to have to at least try it =). 
> Once you have a few handlers working, you can have your own higher 
> level API.
>
> put "127.0.0.1:8080" into myServer
> open socket to myServer
> write myClientMessage to myServer
>
> and...
>
> accept connections on port 8080 with message "clientConnection"
>
> on clientConnection tSocket
>   read from tSocket until empty with message "myClientMessage"
> end clientConnection
>
> on myClientMessage tData
>    bla bla bla
> end myClientMessage
>
It really is pretty simple, but there are some tricky parts.   Take this 
code snippet, read the docs on send, accept, read from socket, write to 
socket, etc. and it will work ...

It might be better / easier (especially if you have two machines 
locally) to start with my simple examples from

    RevOnline / alextweedly / TCP App 1(and 2)
and also
   RevOnline / alextweedly / UDP echo client (and server)

Or leap straight in with the chat server / client from Bjoernke's site 
http://bjoernke.com/runrev/chatrev.php 


> If you really want a game server, you're gonna have to work at the 
> socket level. The above IS "high level" socket programming. As you've 
> mentioned, you don't want to just fetch URLs which is the point at 
> which xTalk really abstracts away the details.
>
Yep.
>> Thanks Bill.  I hope you are going to provide this functionality 
>> wrapped into xTalk's easy message passing protocol...
>>
The message passing scheme doesn't extend to multi-player (or 
multi-receiver), so we need a different metaphor to handle that (as well 
as a different approach to handle asynchronous events from multiple 
other places).

-- Alex.



From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Fri Dec 26 19:23:40 2008
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Petrides, M.D. Marian)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 18:23:40 -0600
Subject: [OT] Free Stuff for Mac
In-Reply-To: <346510B8-88D7-4D50-BBF3-03FE4BEED0D0@economy-x-talk.com>
References: <346510B8-88D7-4D50-BBF3-03FE4BEED0D0@economy-x-talk.com>
Message-ID: <CD6D6B0F-A561-4EC2-9554-A0268667C20F@earthlink.net>

Cool! thanks!
On Dec 26, 2008, at 11:42 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote:

> Hi,
>
> In case you didn't know yet...
>
> <http://givingtree.macheist.com/>
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Schonewille
>
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> http://economy-x-talk.com
> http://www.salery.biz
> Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum
>
> We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to  
> discuss your custom software project!
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From coiin at rcn.com  Fri Dec 26 23:31:48 2008
From: coiin at rcn.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:31:48 -0500
Subject: [OT] Free Stuff for Mac
In-Reply-To: <346510B8-88D7-4D50-BBF3-03FE4BEED0D0@economy-x-talk.com>
References: <346510B8-88D7-4D50-BBF3-03FE4BEED0D0@economy-x-talk.com>
Message-ID: <E9481C95-411D-4D6B-982F-F14943F1D7F6@rcn.com>


On Dec 26, 2008, at 12:42 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote:

>
> In case you didn't know yet...
>
> <http://givingtree.macheist.com/>
>


Aside from anything else, Enigmo 2 is worth having. The other apps are  
Synergy 3.3 MacHeist promo edition, iConquer, Headline, and SantaSnaps.




From jhurley0305 at sbcglobal.net  Sat Dec 27 02:05:18 2008
From: jhurley0305 at sbcglobal.net (James Hurley)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:05:18 -0800
Subject: [ANN] Merry Stykzmas!  Stykz Public Beta for Mac is Released
In-Reply-To: <20081225180004.0CAF148A332@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20081225180004.0CAF148A332@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <95686D19-E108-4C49-A043-B41288E5F2BB@sbcglobal.net>

>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 01:57:11 -0600
> From: Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Subject: [ANN] Merry Stykzmas!  Stykz Public Beta for Mac is Released
> To: Use Revolution List <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <C57898F7.185E9%kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Hey everyone! I wanted to let you all know that I've *finally*  
> gotten the
> public beta of the Mac version of the stick figure animation  
> program Stykz
> out the door and on its own site (www.stykz.net).

So that is what has become of that stick figure. I didn't see that  
coming . I thought it was just to be a stick figure. Very inventive.  
VERY SLICK.

>
> Some of you who were at the last RevCon in Las Vegas may recall me
> discussing Stykz and the impact that stick figure animation has had  
> on my
> children and how popular it has become.

I can see how the kids would be thrilled with it. It empowers them!  
Gives them a chance to be creative in a very rich environment.

That is what I saw in Turtle Graphics some years ago. TG is a bit  
more advance, but again it gives children a chance to be in control.  
When I was a kid, that first opportunity to be in control was sitting  
next to my father when he was driving and him letting me take the  
wheel--cars had bench seats in those days. Got to go LEFT, RIGHT,  
FORWARD, BACK (well maybe not BACK) with an entire car.

And I can't begin to image the work that went into the polish--above  
and beyond. Congratulations!

Jim Hurley



From palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Dec 27 02:43:11 2008
From: palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk (Peter Alcibiades)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:43:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Linux user Application Data folder path
In-Reply-To: <21171105.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <21171023.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<DE413268-107B-4FAB-B651-E09D3B450FB4@economy-x-talk.com>
	<21171105.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <21182209.post@talk.nabble.com>


Written in the hope that this will not be insultingly elementary!  But if
you've no Linux installation handy, probably it won't be.  

Probably the best thing would be to get a live CD and take a look at how it
works.  A reasonable one would be Mandriva One 2009 Gnome, or 2008 Spring
KDE (not 2009 KDE).  Realize that you can install this and most other big
distributions onto an existing Windows box, and it will take care of
partitioning and so on and give you a dual boot system where you choose at
boot time whether to run Windows or Linux.  I think this is a lot better
than running Linux in a VM, but opinions do differ.

Its not quite clear what you mean by 'the user applications folder'.  There
isn't really any such thing in the way there is in Windows. Applications
which are native to your distribution will usually be found in /usr/bin. But
your user account will not be able to write to that. And that is not a
collection of folders as you might expect from Windows, its a collection of
binary files and some links. So to say that it is 'the user applications
folder' is not really correct, and certainly you cannot put preferences and
configuration files there. It is not really the applications folder, and it
is not user specific but system wide. The libraries these binaries depend on
will be in several places including user/lib.  All this should be left well
alone.

The configuration files for a particular user who is using a system wide
application will be in /home/user.  For instance, for the text editor geany,
they are in /home/user/.geany/geany.conf.  There is going to be one of these
for every user account on the system.

Decide whether you want your application installed for all users of the
system or just the one signed on.  If the former, put it in /opt, and put a
link to it someplace, like on the desktop, which will be /home/user/Desktop.
You'll have to put a link in for each user in the different desktops. 
You'll need the root password to write to /opt.

If the latter, put it in /home/user.  Its not very common for software to be
installed in the user's home folder, but it does happen.  My own rev
software is there. I don't put it in a dot folder however, since I want to
be able to get at it without looking through all the other invisible
folders. So then it would be in /home/user/theapp, for instance.  If you do
this, I would put the preferences in (for instance)
/home/user/theapp/.theappprefs.  This will make the prefs file invisible, if
that's what you want.

The user can make them visible again by checking 'show hidden files' in the
file manager.

The default folder may not behave quite as expected.  Its may not end up
being set as /home/user/theapp in the above example, but as /home/user, so
you might have to set it explicitly to what you want, or have the user do it
during installation.

Be aware that your user need not necessarily have a desktop to put icons on. 
That is, he'll always have a folder called /home/user/Desktop, but he may
not be running a desktop environment or window manager which puts icons on
the desktop in the Windows or MacOS way. Fluxbox is an example of a window
manager like this.  It might be something to cover in the Readme.

Peter



mfstuart wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Mark S.
> I can't try it because I don't have a Linux box available now.
> But will be putting the application out to beta sometime soon - next year
> :).
> 
> So if I do the following:
>   put specialFolderPath("Preferences") into tPath --for MacOS
>   put specialFolderPath(26) into tPath --for Windows
>   put ~/applications into tPath --for Linux
> 
> This should return me the path to the users applications folder?
> And after that if I append the software company name & application name,
> this should be OK for storing application information, such application
> settings?
> 
> Regards,
> Mark Stuart
> 
> 
> Mark Schonewille-3 wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mark,
>> 
>> Try this: ~/applications
>> 
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Mark Schonewille
>> 
>> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
>> http://economy-x-talk.com
>> http://www.salery.biz
>> Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum
>> 
>> We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to  
>> discuss your custom software project!
>> 
>> On 26 dec 2008, at 02:13, mfstuart wrote:
>> 
>>>
>>> Merry Christmas to all,
>>>
>>> As specialFolderPath(26) returns "C:/Documents and Settings/user/ 
>>> Application
>>> Data" on Windows,
>>> what is the equivilant on Linux?
>>>
>>> I need to know the path to the application data and then append the  
>>> software
>>> company name and application name to it.
>>>
>>> Windows eg: C:/Documents and Settings/mark/Application
>>> Data/SoftwareCompanyName/ApplicationName/
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Mark Stuart
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Linux-user-Application-Data-folder-path-tp21171023p21182209.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Dec 27 02:54:34 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 01:54:34 -0600
Subject: [ANN] Merry Stykzmas!  Stykz Public Beta for Mac is Released
In-Reply-To: <101105.95347.qm@web65411.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C57B3B5A.1871E%kray@sonsothunder.com>


> That looks really great, Ken - and has given me some
> ideas for improving my own projects.

Thanks, Jan! Now if only we can get bug #7292 fixed!
 
> Hope you're having a great holiday as well,

Thanks,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Dec 27 02:57:50 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 01:57:50 -0600
Subject: [ANN] Merry Stykzmas!  Stykz Public Beta for Mac is Released
In-Reply-To: <95686D19-E108-4C49-A043-B41288E5F2BB@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <C57B3C1E.18720%kray@sonsothunder.com>


> So that is what has become of that stick figure. I didn't see that
> coming . I thought it was just to be a stick figure. Very inventive.
> VERY SLICK.

Thank you, Jim! You helped me a lot with the mechanism behind the program;
your name is even in the About box, under "Special Thanks"!

 
>> Some of you who were at the last RevCon in Las Vegas may recall me
>> discussing Stykz and the impact that stick figure animation has had
>> on my
>> children and how popular it has become.
> 
> I can see how the kids would be thrilled with it. It empowers them!
> Gives them a chance to be creative in a very rich environment.
> 
> That is what I saw in Turtle Graphics some years ago. TG is a bit
> more advance, but again it gives children a chance to be in control.
> When I was a kid, that first opportunity to be in control was sitting
> next to my father when he was driving and him letting me take the
> wheel--cars had bench seats in those days. Got to go LEFT, RIGHT,
> FORWARD, BACK (well maybe not BACK) with an entire car.
> 
> And I can't begin to image the work that went into the polish--above
> and beyond. Congratulations!

Thanks a lot! I have a lot of plans for the program down the line as well...
it's been a pleasure to work on.

:-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Dec 27 02:59:41 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 01:59:41 -0600
Subject: [ANN] Merry Stykzmas! Stykz Public Beta for Mac is Released
In-Reply-To: <665591460812260120g77e618a6vc0ba8756fe4c4e50@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C57B3C8D.18721%kray@sonsothunder.com>

> Nice job, Ken. Looks wonderful. Sat through your entire tutorial--pretty
> cool stuff!

Thanks, Chipp! I just wish I could get better quality on YouTube (spent 2
days in a number of formats and finally decided to make a splash screen for
each section that said "for better quality, go to www.stykz.net").

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From mazzapaolo at libero.it  Sat Dec 27 10:24:19 2008
From: mazzapaolo at libero.it (paolo)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:24:19 +0100
Subject: Filter JPEG files in MACOSX
In-Reply-To: <276320C8-150F-4337-8DB5-58A0ADCF5F27@major-k.de>
References: <BDF28149-FB8B-4C04-8275-D6C0EAD7CBCD@free.fr>
	<AB97DE23-C2E0-4E98-B067-DFF83FDFFA81@economy-x-talk.com>
	<8479BC3D-29DB-42DC-8C0D-88ADA252D597@free.fr>
	<276320C8-150F-4337-8DB5-58A0ADCF5F27@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <1C2D7D17-BAA3-4464-9525-0D1FE5513462@libero.it>

Filter jpeg files in MACOSX

How can I filter the files created by the application Preview  and  
saved as JPEG?
According to the Rev documentation I should use either there two  
commands:

    answer file "SELEZIONA" of type "JPEG"

    answer file "SELEZIONA" with filter "JPEGs,*.jpg"

Unfortunately both of them do not work .As far as I know, the first  
one does not work because  the application  Preview from Apple does  
not set the filetype to JPEG even if you choose to save the image as  
JPEG.  (crazy)

The second one does not work because  even if the file has the  
extension .jpg,  in the contextual menu the extension of that file  
disappear.
Why?

To me, this file type thing in MacOSX is a mess. 

From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Sat Dec 27 10:46:51 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:46:51 +0100
Subject: Filter JPEG files in MACOSX
In-Reply-To: <1C2D7D17-BAA3-4464-9525-0D1FE5513462@libero.it>
References: <BDF28149-FB8B-4C04-8275-D6C0EAD7CBCD@free.fr>
	<AB97DE23-C2E0-4E98-B067-DFF83FDFFA81@economy-x-talk.com>
	<8479BC3D-29DB-42DC-8C0D-88ADA252D597@free.fr>
	<276320C8-150F-4337-8DB5-58A0ADCF5F27@major-k.de>
	<1C2D7D17-BAA3-4464-9525-0D1FE5513462@libero.it>
Message-ID: <891FA9A5-EB90-4652-8E07-CBE1CCDA991D@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonjour Paolo,

answer file "Select the images you wish to view:" with type "JPEG  
Images|jpg|JPEG"
works well here even with files saved in Preview that, effectively,  
lets the filetype empty as it is visible using File Buddy.
Suppressing file extension and turning off 'Show extensions' in  
Finder prefs still allows to have this kind of file showing up in the  
answer file dialog.
I think it's due to the formulation abobe that adds 'JPEG Images'.

Le 27 d?c. 08 ? 16:24, paolo a ?crit :

> Filter jpeg files in MACOSX
>
> How can I filter the files created by the application Preview  and  
> saved as JPEG?
> According to the Rev documentation I should use either there two  
> commands:
>
>    answer file "SELEZIONA" of type "JPEG"
>
>    answer file "SELEZIONA" with filter "JPEGs,*.jpg"
>
> Unfortunately both of them do not work .As far as I know, the first  
> one does not work because  the application  Preview from Apple does  
> not set the filetype to JPEG even if you choose to save the image  
> as JPEG.  (crazy)
>
> The second one does not work because  even if the file has the  
> extension .jpg,  in the contextual menu the extension of that file  
> disappear.
> Why?

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From dalesvp at centurytel.net  Sat Dec 27 14:01:40 2008
From: dalesvp at centurytel.net (Dale Pond)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:01:40 -0700
Subject: HC to Rev conversion help needed
Message-ID: <0D7D69BC-EC5B-409F-BAB8-BA0E85A2CCAA@centurytel.net>

Joe,

Thank you for looking at this. I've uploaded the HyperVibes stacks.  
The idea behind this stack was it would contain all the scripts to  
run the entire collection of stacks so there would only be one script  
to edit when changes were made.
The two stacks are:

Original HC HyperVibes
http://www.svpvril.com/HC/HyperVibes.bin

Partially converted Rev stack
http://www.svpvril.com/HC/HyperVibes.Rrev

Also might be of interest all controlled stacks other than the main  
HyperVibes stack have this standard script:

-- "Standard" HypVib stack script

on openStack
   global hypVib
   if "HyperVibes" is not in the stacksInUse
   then start using stack "HyperVibes"
   put "true" into hypVib
   pass openStack
end openStack

on resumeStack
   global hypVib
   if "HyperVibes" is not in the stacksInUse
   then start using stack "HyperVibes"
   put "true" into hypVib
   pass resumeStack
end resumeStack


Life, Light, Love & Laughter,
Dale Pond
Sympathetic Vibratory Physics
http://www.svpvril.com/





From mfstuart at cox.net  Sat Dec 27 14:23:40 2008
From: mfstuart at cox.net (mfstuart)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:23:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Linux user Application Data folder path
In-Reply-To: <21182209.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <21171023.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<DE413268-107B-4FAB-B651-E09D3B450FB4@economy-x-talk.com>
	<21171105.post@talk.nabble.com> <21182209.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <21186851.post@talk.nabble.com>


Peter, that's quite a mouth full. And to digest it, is even more
overwhelming.
To understand and see it all will take some 'hands-on', I think.

So will have to lay low on that platform for some time, before getting the
resources for it.
Getting the application completed and working on Windows and MacOS is the
main focus, then Linux.
Which I'm sure will bring its own issues.

I'll make a copy of your explanation here for future referral.

Thanx and regards,
Mark Stuart



Peter Alcibiades wrote:
> 
> Written in the hope that this will not be insultingly elementary!  But if
> you've no Linux installation handy, probably it won't be.  
> 
> Probably the best thing would be to get a live CD and take a look at how
> it works.  A reasonable one would be Mandriva One 2009 Gnome, or 2008
> Spring KDE (not 2009 KDE).  Realize that you can install this and most
> other big distributions onto an existing Windows box, and it will take
> care of partitioning and so on and give you a dual boot system where you
> choose at boot time whether to run Windows or Linux.  I think this is a
> lot better than running Linux in a VM, but opinions do differ.
> 
> Its not quite clear what you mean by 'the user applications folder'. 
> There isn't really any such thing in the way there is in Windows.
> Applications which are native to your distribution will usually be found
> in /usr/bin. But your user account will not be able to write to that. And
> that is not a collection of folders as you might expect from Windows, its
> a collection of binary files and some links. So to say that it is 'the
> user applications folder' is not really correct, and certainly you cannot
> put preferences and configuration files there. It is not really the
> applications folder, and it is not user specific but system wide. The
> libraries these binaries depend on will be in several places including
> user/lib.  All this should be left well alone.
> 
> The configuration files for a particular user who is using a system wide
> application will be in /home/user.  For instance, for the text editor
> geany, they are in /home/user/.geany/geany.conf.  There is going to be one
> of these for every user account on the system.
> 
> Decide whether you want your application installed for all users of the
> system or just the one signed on.  If the former, put it in /opt, and put
> a link to it someplace, like on the desktop, which will be
> /home/user/Desktop. You'll have to put a link in for each user in the
> different desktops.  You'll need the root password to write to /opt.
> 
> If the latter, put it in /home/user.  Its not very common for software to
> be installed in the user's home folder, but it does happen.  My own rev
> software is there. I don't put it in a dot folder however, since I want to
> be able to get at it without looking through all the other invisible
> folders. So then it would be in /home/user/theapp, for instance.  If you
> do this, I would put the preferences in (for instance)
> /home/user/theapp/.theappprefs.  This will make the prefs file invisible,
> if that's what you want.
> 
> The user can make them visible again by checking 'show hidden files' in
> the file manager.
> 
> The default folder may not behave quite as expected.  Its may not end up
> being set as /home/user/theapp in the above example, but as /home/user, so
> you might have to set it explicitly to what you want, or have the user do
> it during installation.
> 
> Be aware that your user need not necessarily have a desktop to put icons
> on.  That is, he'll always have a folder called /home/user/Desktop, but he
> may not be running a desktop environment or window manager which puts
> icons on the desktop in the Windows or MacOS way. Fluxbox is an example of
> a window manager like this.  It might be something to cover in the Readme.
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> 
> mfstuart wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Mark S.
>> I can't try it because I don't have a Linux box available now.
>> But will be putting the application out to beta sometime soon - next year
>> :).
>> 
>> So if I do the following:
>>   put specialFolderPath("Preferences") into tPath --for MacOS
>>   put specialFolderPath(26) into tPath --for Windows
>>   put ~/applications into tPath --for Linux
>> 
>> This should return me the path to the users applications folder?
>> And after that if I append the software company name & application name,
>> this should be OK for storing application information, such application
>> settings?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Mark Stuart
>> 
>> 
>> Mark Schonewille-3 wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Mark,
>>> 
>>> Try this: ~/applications
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>> Mark Schonewille
>>> 
>>> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
>>> http://economy-x-talk.com
>>> http://www.salery.biz
>>> Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum
>>> 
>>> We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to  
>>> discuss your custom software project!
>>> 
>>> On 26 dec 2008, at 02:13, mfstuart wrote:
>>> 
>>>>
>>>> Merry Christmas to all,
>>>>
>>>> As specialFolderPath(26) returns "C:/Documents and Settings/user/ 
>>>> Application
>>>> Data" on Windows,
>>>> what is the equivilant on Linux?
>>>>
>>>> I need to know the path to the application data and then append the  
>>>> software
>>>> company name and application name to it.
>>>>
>>>> Windows eg: C:/Documents and Settings/mark/Application
>>>> Data/SoftwareCompanyName/ApplicationName/
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Mark Stuart
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Linux-user-Application-Data-folder-path-tp21171023p21186851.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From pepetoo at cox.net  Sat Dec 27 14:59:35 2008
From: pepetoo at cox.net (Joe Lewis Wilkins)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 11:59:35 -0800
Subject: HC to Rev conversion help needed
In-Reply-To: <0D7D69BC-EC5B-409F-BAB8-BA0E85A2CCAA@centurytel.net>
References: <0D7D69BC-EC5B-409F-BAB8-BA0E85A2CCAA@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <D2CB549A-BA65-4AD6-9EF5-61ED62AE2053@cox.net>

Hi Dale,

No problem, though I got this when I clicked on the partially  
converted Rev stack below:

Not Found
The requested URL /HC/HyperVibes.Rrev was not found on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to  
use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
Apache/1.3.41 Server at svpvril.com Port 80

It was the on openStack handler that clued me in to the missing  
HyperVibes stack.

I trashed your original post and now, for the life of me, I don't  
remember your exact concern; other than why it wasn't working as wanted.

Joe

On Dec 27, 2008, at 11:01 AM, Dale Pond wrote:

> Joe,
>
> Thank you for looking at this. I've uploaded the HyperVibes stacks.  
> The idea behind this stack was it would contain all the scripts to  
> run the entire collection of stacks so there would only be one  
> script to edit when changes were made.
> The two stacks are:
>
> Original HC HyperVibes
> http://www.svpvril.com/HC/HyperVibes.bin
>
> Partially converted Rev stack
> http://www.svpvril.com/HC/HyperVibes.Rrev
>
> Also might be of interest all controlled stacks other than the main  
> HyperVibes stack have this standard script:
>
> -- "Standard" HypVib stack script
>
> on openStack
>  global hypVib
>  if "HyperVibes" is not in the stacksInUse
>  then start using stack "HyperVibes"
>  put "true" into hypVib
>  pass openStack
> end openStack
>
> on resumeStack
>  global hypVib
>  if "HyperVibes" is not in the stacksInUse
>  then start using stack "HyperVibes"
>  put "true" into hypVib
>  pass resumeStack
> end resumeStack
>
>
> Life, Light, Love & Laughter,
> Dale Pond
> Sympathetic Vibratory Physics
> http://www.svpvril.com/



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Dec 27 15:17:57 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:17:57 -0600
Subject: Zlib decompression - Any ideas?
Message-ID: <C57BE995.18763%kray@sonsothunder.com>

Hey all... I may be getting some files sent to me that were compressed using
the public zlib library.

My understanding is that the compress() and decompress() functions are built
as wrappers around the zlib library, but may require certain headers or
length bytes or something that these raw zlib-compressed files may not have.

Any ideas on how I can decompress these files with Rev?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From lists at futilism.com  Sat Dec 27 15:47:51 2008
From: lists at futilism.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 20:47:51 +0000
Subject: Zlib decompression - Any ideas?
In-Reply-To: <C57BE995.18763%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <C57BE995.18763%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <52D5E514-4E72-4706-9464-0531D1B98914@futilism.com>

Ken, from the man page for gunzip:

gunzip takes a list of files on its command line and replaces each file
        whose  name  ends with .gz, -gz, .z, -z, _z or .Z and which  
begins with
        the correct magic number with an uncompressed file without  
the original
        extension.


So I'm guessing that a shell call to gunzip should be able to cope...


Best,

Mark

On 27 Dec 2008, at 20:17, Ken Ray wrote:

> Hey all... I may be getting some files sent to me that were  
> compressed using
> the public zlib library.
>
> My understanding is that the compress() and decompress() functions  
> are built
> as wrappers around the zlib library, but may require certain  
> headers or
> length bytes or something that these raw zlib-compressed files may  
> not have.
>
> Any ideas on how I can decompress these files with Rev?
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From pepetoo at cox.net  Sat Dec 27 17:57:53 2008
From: pepetoo at cox.net (Joe Lewis Wilkins)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:57:53 -0800
Subject: HC to Rev conversion help needed
In-Reply-To: <0D7D69BC-EC5B-409F-BAB8-BA0E85A2CCAA@centurytel.net>
References: <0D7D69BC-EC5B-409F-BAB8-BA0E85A2CCAA@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <D300B526-B872-4381-A4E3-8C96709B3274@cox.net>

Also, I was unable to unzip this .bin file. Don't usually run into  
that problem, but???

Joe Wilkins

On Dec 27, 2008, at 11:01 AM, Dale Pond wrote:

> Joe,
>
> Thank you for looking at this. I've uploaded the HyperVibes stacks.  
> The idea behind this stack was it would contain all the scripts to  
> run the entire collection of stacks so there would only be one  
> script to edit when changes were made.
> The two stacks are:
>
> Original HC HyperVibes
> http://www.svpvril.com/HC/HyperVibes.bin



From coiin at rcn.com  Sat Dec 27 18:21:03 2008
From: coiin at rcn.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 18:21:03 -0500
Subject: HC to Rev conversion help needed
In-Reply-To: <D300B526-B872-4381-A4E3-8C96709B3274@cox.net>
References: <0D7D69BC-EC5B-409F-BAB8-BA0E85A2CCAA@centurytel.net>
	<D300B526-B872-4381-A4E3-8C96709B3274@cox.net>
Message-ID: <AAF39362-13DD-48DA-9C8E-7C3CBFE6058F@rcn.com>


On Dec 27, 2008, at 5:57 PM, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:

> Also, I was unable to unzip this .bin file. Don't usually run into  
> that problem, but???

It downloads as a stack using Safari (not sure what Safari used to  
decompress it). If you want to jump on AIM, I can give you a zip file  
of the stack. I'm coiin at mac.com




From pepetoo at cox.net  Sat Dec 27 18:51:13 2008
From: pepetoo at cox.net (Joe Lewis Wilkins)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 15:51:13 -0800
Subject: HC to Rev conversion help needed
In-Reply-To: <AAF39362-13DD-48DA-9C8E-7C3CBFE6058F@rcn.com>
References: <0D7D69BC-EC5B-409F-BAB8-BA0E85A2CCAA@centurytel.net>
	<D300B526-B872-4381-A4E3-8C96709B3274@cox.net>
	<AAF39362-13DD-48DA-9C8E-7C3CBFE6058F@rcn.com>
Message-ID: <80811E2E-4BF5-486A-811A-F2AE027A4DCA@cox.net>

Thanks, Colin. I stupidly saved the file instead of using Stuffit to  
unzip it. Downloaded it again and chose the "right" option. OK (smile)

Joe Wilkins

On Dec 27, 2008, at 3:21 PM, Colin Holgate wrote:

>
> On Dec 27, 2008, at 5:57 PM, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:
>
>> Also, I was unable to unzip this .bin file. Don't usually run into  
>> that problem, but???
>
> It downloads as a stack using Safari (not sure what Safari used to  
> decompress it). If you want to jump on AIM, I can give you a zip  
> file of the stack. I'm coiin at mac.com



From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Dec 28 02:25:08 2008
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 01:25:08 -0600
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
In-Reply-To: <D0B66616-7AE1-4AA5-9714-ECB491DE3179@randallreetz.com>
References: <20081226173542.PTZG11530.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@Inbox>
	<0A40D101-3906-4429-8D82-C9CEC100CB55@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<D0B66616-7AE1-4AA5-9714-ECB491DE3179@randallreetz.com>
Message-ID: <665591460812272325w37728f80wff38521988ef2fbd@mail.gmail.com>

This thread reminds me of the 'make art' button some folks want for 3D apps.
:-)
Sorry, Randall, you have to get your hands a little dirty. All the folks
here have given you the tools, but you're going to have to learn to fish if
you want to catch some.

put URL "http://www.mytesttext.txt" into tMyVar

and you can write data to an FTP server similarly as easy.

put field "Upload" into URL "ftp://me:secret at ftp.example.net/file.txt"

So, using an ftp/http server you can post and retrieve files quickly and
easily. You can control the business logic at the client if you wish. This
is the simplest sort of client/server interaction.

For P2P, you'll need to involve yourself in open socket commands.


From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Dec 28 02:28:10 2008
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 01:28:10 -0600
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
In-Reply-To: <665591460812272325w37728f80wff38521988ef2fbd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20081226173542.PTZG11530.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@Inbox>
	<0A40D101-3906-4429-8D82-C9CEC100CB55@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<D0B66616-7AE1-4AA5-9714-ECB491DE3179@randallreetz.com>
	<665591460812272325w37728f80wff38521988ef2fbd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <665591460812272328s2729a751y9303e746c508fa1c@mail.gmail.com>

That should have read (needs a domain):
put URL "http://www.example.net/file.txt" into tMyVar

On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 1:25 AM, Chipp Walters <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:

>
> put URL "http://www.mytesttext.txt" into tMyVar
>
>
>


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Dec 28 03:26:01 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 02:26:01 -0600
Subject: Zlib decompression - Any ideas?
In-Reply-To: <52D5E514-4E72-4706-9464-0531D1B98914@futilism.com>
Message-ID: <C57C9439.187A8%kray@sonsothunder.com>

> So I'm guessing that a shell call to gunzip should be able to cope...

Thanks, Mark... I'll see how that works when I get the files...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From wjm at wjm.org  Sun Dec 28 03:38:49 2008
From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 03:38:49 -0500
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
References: <20081226075141.QUEO9346.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>
Message-ID: <gj7duq$v4g$1@ger.gmane.org>

Randall,

> Id like the simple answer.

It *can* be simple. Clients, be they web pages or Rev stacks can say:

http://yourserver.com/yourcgi.cgi?param=Hello+World

That sends information to the Rev server-based script yourcgi.cgi, which 
could have something like,

on startup
    put $1 into x
    replace "=" with return in x
    put urlDecode(line 2 of x) into x

    put "Content-Type: text/html" & crlf
    put "Content-Length:" & the length of x & crlf & crlf
    put x

end startup

And you'll get the response "Hello World."

But, if simple were adequate, I don't suppose we'd need to spend four days 
discussing the possibilities.

- Bill 





From wjm at wjm.org  Sun Dec 28 03:42:57 2008
From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 03:42:57 -0500
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
References: <20081226173542.PTZG11530.atlmtaow02.cingularme.com@Inbox>
Message-ID: <gj7e6i$vg9$1@ger.gmane.org>

> Oh, and i am not interested in web pages.  I need superfast communication.

Web pages ain't necessarily slow, Randall. In fact web servers are highly 
optimized for speed, and sending a URL is often the speediest way to handle 
things, with the least overhead and processing effort. 





From wjm at wjm.org  Sun Dec 28 03:49:46 2008
From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 03:49:46 -0500
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
References: <F2D0DF99-C949-4DC3-9669-7A00279E2FC0@randallreetz.com><gj1u84$hop$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<1C23A48E-53B0-48C8-9B0B-0C45823D79FE@randallreetz.com>
Message-ID: <gj7ejb$c7$1@ger.gmane.org>

Randall,

> I hope you are going to provide this functionality  wrapped into xTalk's 
> easy message passing protocol...
>
> send myClientMessage to myServer
>
>     and...
>
> on myClientMessage
>        do blablabla
> end myClientMessage

You can already do this with CGI scripts; you can already do it with URLs:

http://myserver/myscript.cgi?cmd=myClientMessage&p1=Hello+World

In the future, you will probably be able to do it with the embedded Rev code 
in web pages as well. For example,

<?rev send myClientMessage to "http://myServer/myscript.cgi" ?>

And on the server, a handler for myClientMessage in the myscript.cgi file. 





From wjm at wjm.org  Sun Dec 28 03:40:14 2008
From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 03:40:14 -0500
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
References: <F2D0DF99-C949-4DC3-9669-7A00279E2FC0@randallreetz.com><gj1u84$hop$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<21172543.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <gj7e1f$v9d$1@ger.gmane.org>

Peter,

> Bill, a question:  will it, whatever it turns out to be, work on Linux?

Many people already use Rev CGI on Linux today. The plugin will work on 
Linux, too. 





From palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Dec 28 04:41:25 2008
From: palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk (Peter Alcibiades)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 01:41:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
In-Reply-To: <gj7e1f$v9d$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <F2D0DF99-C949-4DC3-9669-7A00279E2FC0@randallreetz.com>
	<gj1u84$hop$1@ger.gmane.org> <21172543.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<gj7e1f$v9d$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <21191042.post@talk.nabble.com>


Yes.  But what I'd really like would be for revBrowser to work....



Bill Marriott wrote:
> 
> Peter,
> 
>> Bill, a question:  will it, whatever it turns out to be, work on Linux?
> 
> Many people already use Rev CGI on Linux today. The plugin will work on 
> Linux, too. 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Andre%27s-post%3A-Rev-and-the-Web...-tp21170116p21191042.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Sun Dec 28 09:41:35 2008
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim Sims)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 15:41:35 +0100
Subject: Looking for a couple of beta testers
Message-ID: <29DC0893-0236-4A2E-AB54-2FC8CA6F9191@ezpzapps.com>

Looking for a couple of beta testers for a project
that uses a standalone which communicates with some Rev CGIs.

Just have an OS X version right now

Have a look at http://www.ezpzapps.net

[Windows version will happen once I get back to the other island where  
my PC is.
So, if the idea seems interesting to any PC users please also get in  
touch]



Hopefully we can Skype or iChat during a testing session so I can
optimize immediate feedback. Not a long term sort of thing, just
looking for a bit of feedback.

Please get in touch via email to sims at ezpzapps.com
or use one of the messaging apps listed below.


sims

sims at ezpzapps.com
Skype:   sims.jim
iChat:   techietours
______________________
Opportunity by Design






From dalesvp at centurytel.net  Sun Dec 28 13:29:17 2008
From: dalesvp at centurytel.net (Dale Pond)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 11:29:17 -0700
Subject: HC to Rev conversion help needed
Message-ID: <51B1E73E-6092-4575-A964-595B74CEFA6F@centurytel.net>

Joe wrote:

 > I trashed your original post and now, for the life of me, I don't
 > remember your exact concern; other than why it wasn't working as  
wanted.

The original collection of stacks were all called, as a collection,  
HyperVibes. The number of stacks was always increasing so everything  
was controlled from the HyperVibes stack. This stack has an  
assortment of functions built into the various cards most of which  
aren't really needed or wanted. I can delete those out once this  
thing is working. The important thing is the HyperVibes stack stack  
script which is the controlling script for the entire collection.  
These stacks, as a collection, were to be fully functional when moved  
from computer to computer.

What I wanted to do while or after converting the HyperSearch stack  
was to

1) two cards only in the stack; the "Search Card" and the "Report Card"
2) make that window larger, say 1200 x 800
3) add one or more additional "Find in These Stacks" fields (so to  
search various sub-collections of stacks)
4) eliminate the scripting that adds cards when too many hits are  
found (HC had limited field size and this feature was important in HC  
but not needed in Rev)

Life, Light, Love & Laughter,
Dale Pond
Sympathetic Vibratory Physics
http://www.svpvril.com/





From support at ahsomme.com  Sun Dec 28 14:53:43 2008
From: support at ahsomme.com (Paul Looney)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 11:53:43 -0800
Subject: HC to Rev conversion help needed
In-Reply-To: <51B1E73E-6092-4575-A964-595B74CEFA6F@centurytel.net>
References: <51B1E73E-6092-4575-A964-595B74CEFA6F@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <721FD862-A655-4C6F-B90C-52362407AD3B@ahsomme.com>

Dale,
You probably want to eliminate the idle messages and the compact  
stack messages as well.
You may want to stop using stacks entirely. Approximately how many  
stacks are there? Approximately how many cards per stack? How much  
information in a typical field? Why are there separate stacks,  
instead of one large one?
Who uses HyperVibes, for what, why?
Paul Looney

On Dec 28, 2008, at 10:29 AM, Dale Pond wrote:
>
> What I wanted to do while or after converting the HyperSearch stack  
> was to
>
> 1) two cards only in the stack; the "Search Card" and the "Report  
> Card"
> 2) make that window larger, say 1200 x 800
> 3) add one or more additional "Find in These Stacks" fields (so to  
> search various sub-collections of stacks)
> 4) eliminate the scripting that adds cards when too many hits are  
> found (HC had limited field size and this feature was important in  
> HC but not needed in Rev)
>
> Life, Light, Love & Laughter,
> Dale Pond
> Sympathetic Vibratory Physics
> http://www.svpvril.com/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From bvlahos at mac.com  Sun Dec 28 16:00:16 2008
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 13:00:16 -0800
Subject: More ciphernames question
Message-ID: <B9FB7C73-732A-410D-976E-114CD3338A36@mac.com>

On Mac OS 10.5 the ciphernames returns the AES ones. On earlier  
version of the Mac OS it doesn't return and AES but does others.

If I manually enter AES to encrypt then it seems to work even though  
it doesn't show up in the list.

Is this cosmetic or is there something else I need to worry about?

Bill Vlahos


From bvlahos at mac.com  Sun Dec 28 16:01:00 2008
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 13:01:00 -0800
Subject: Ciphernames
Message-ID: <13F506A4-DD3E-4B6B-B124-61972571FB29@mac.com>

Here are the AES results for ciphernames:
aes-128-cbc,128
aes-128-cfb,128
aes-128-cfb1,128
aes-128-cfb8,128
aes-128-ecb,128
aes-128-ofb,128
aes-192-cbc,192
aes-192-cfb,192
aes-192-cfb1,192
aes-192-cfb8,192
aes-192-ecb,192
aes-192-ofb,192
aes-256-cbc,256
aes-256-cfb,256
aes-256-cfb1,256
aes-256-cfb8,256
aes-256-ecb,256
aes-256-ofb,256
aes128,128
aes192,192
aes256,256

What are the differences between cfb, cfb1, cfb8, ecb, and ofb  
variations? Is there any reason not to just use the last three vs the  
other variations?

Bill Vlahos


From billziegler at mac.com  Sun Dec 28 19:14:18 2008
From: billziegler at mac.com (Bill Ziegler)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 19:14:18 -0500
Subject: revbrowseropen problems
Message-ID: <7578B9E7-B0D0-4182-9C5A-EB2673392D75@mac.com>


Is it me?

I've tried...

create stack "new browser"
put revbrowseropen(the windowID of stack "new browser","http://www.runrev.com 
") into theIdentifier

and

    put the windowid of this stack into tWinID
    put "http://www.runrev.com" into tAddress
    put revBrowserOpen(tWinID,tAddress) into tBrowserID

and even Ken's script from 11/13/07

    on preOpenCard
      -- We pass the windowId of the stack to revBrowser
      -- so that it can determine which window to place the
      -- browser object into
      put the windowid of this stack into tWinID

      -- Open the browser, using the windowId and initial url
      put revBrowserOpen (the windowid of this stack,"http://www.google.com 
") into sBrowserId
      set the uBrowserID of this stack to sBrowserID

       -- Set some basic properties for the browser
      --revBrowserSet sBrowserId,"rect",rect of img "browserimage"
      revBrowserSet sBrowserId,"showborder","true"
      put "" into fld "Location"
      enable group "WebBar"
    end preOpenCard


I ALWAYS get an Function Execution error on the "revBrowserOpen" line  
(see below)


stack "Untitled 1": execution error at line 8 (Function: error in  
function handler) near "revBrowserOpen", char 7



What am I doing wrong.

Thanks, Bill

Macbook Pro, Leopard


From wjm at wjm.org  Sun Dec 28 20:40:02 2008
From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 20:40:02 -0500
Subject: [slightly OT] reliability of mySQL & Rev cgi ?
References: <4954F0B0.EA44D48D@club-internet.fr><C908784C-BA27-4BB7-B8C9-AA448D983EF4@kagi.com><49552AB0.34FBE3EC@club-internet.fr>
	<459b22a90812261058tb273a8fo59496ce06234a6d8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <gj99pj$eiq$1@ger.gmane.org>

For MySQL I really like HeidiSQL...

http://www.heidisql.com

william humphrey wrote:
> Do you also use something like "MySQL Database Wizard" to check
> your SQL independently of the SQL you send through RunRev? [...] For
> SQLite there is a program "SQLiteManager" that helps similarly.





From bvlahos at mac.com  Mon Dec 29 01:16:48 2008
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 22:16:48 -0800
Subject: Date stamp a stack
Message-ID: <48A6FF95-8011-47B9-A710-2ABFAC35FE3A@mac.com>

I would like to store a date stamp on a document stack when it is  
created by my program in a way that can't be changed by the user but  
that my program can examine.

I could put the date into a custom property or hidden field of a stack  
upon creation but if someone opened the stack in the Rev IDE and knew  
what they were looking for they could still open the stack and change  
the value.

The docs say that getting "the detailed files" will return the  
creation dates only on Mac and Windows. I'd have to sift through all  
the files and pick out the one I'm looking for.

Is there some other way of storing the date stamp on a stack?

Thanks,
Bill Vlahos


From sims at ezpzapps.com  Mon Dec 29 03:01:48 2008
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim Sims)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:01:48 +0100
Subject: Date stamp a stack
In-Reply-To: <48A6FF95-8011-47B9-A710-2ABFAC35FE3A@mac.com>
References: <48A6FF95-8011-47B9-A710-2ABFAC35FE3A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <22C4DB44-ABD4-4051-8DC5-21724D8B28AA@ezpzapps.com>


On Dec 29, 2008, at 7:16 AM, Bill Vlahos wrote:

> I would like to store a date stamp on a document stack when it is  
> created by my program in a way that can't be changed by the user but  
> that my program can examine.

  set the script of btn "createDate" to the date

Does that work?

sims

sims at ezpzapps.com
Skype:   sims.jim
iChat:   techietours
______________________
Opportunity by Design






From 00bioarchimed at free.fr  Mon Dec 29 04:50:25 2008
From: 00bioarchimed at free.fr (Thierry)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 10:50:25 +0100
Subject: [slightly OT] reliability of mySQL & Rev cgi ?
In-Reply-To: <gj99pj$eiq$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <4954F0B0.EA44D48D@club-internet.fr><C908784C-BA27-4BB7-B8C9-AA448D983EF4@kagi.com><49552AB0.34FBE3EC@club-internet.fr>
	<459b22a90812261058tb273a8fo59496ce06234a6d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<gj99pj$eiq$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <6FA50803-955C-4EDE-9F57-AD7A13584641@free.fr>

>
> william humphrey wrote:
>> Do you also use something like "MySQL Database Wizard" to check
>> your SQL independently of the SQL you send through RunRev? [...] For
>> SQLite there is a program "SQLiteManager" that helps similarly.

Hi,

What about this one ?

http://code.google.com/p/sqlite-manager/

Regards,
Thierry



From jbv.silences at club-internet.fr  Mon Dec 29 05:08:33 2008
From: jbv.silences at club-internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:08:33 +0100
Subject: [slightly OT] reliability of mySQL & Rev cgi ?
References: <4954F0B0.EA44D48D@club-internet.fr><C908784C-BA27-4BB7-B8C9-AA448D983EF4@kagi.com><49552AB0.34FBE3EC@club-internet.fr>
	<459b22a90812261058tb273a8fo59496ce06234a6d8@mail.gmail.com>
	<gj99pj$eiq$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<6FA50803-955C-4EDE-9F57-AD7A13584641@free.fr>
Message-ID: <4958A1A1.3C8F58C2@club-internet.fr>

Thank you all for your answers to my post.

In fact I finally solved my problem by re-starting Apache,
mySQL and PHP on the server...
My only worry is that it could start to malfunction again,
and how to detect it...

JB



From mkoob at rogers.com  Mon Dec 29 11:11:22 2008
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:11:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Menu bars on main stack and different menus on substacks
References: <459b22a90812080620g77b96f0bl7ef3999b9e80aa25@mail.gmail.com>
	<493D4F12.7070408@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20081229T143318-855@post.gmane.org>




J. Landman Gay <jacque at ...> writes:

> 
> william humphrey wrote:
> > Menubars on main stack and substack
> > Hi
> > 
> > I know what happens with a menu on the mainstack and none on any of the
> > substacks but I was wondering how to implement a menu that changes depending
> > on what stack is opened. If you put a different menubar in a substack does
> > it happen automatically?
> 
> On Windows, yes. Menus on that OS are just groups, and they will show up 
> automatically in whatever stack you place them.
> 
> On Mac OS, the menubar group is moved to the system menu (and the stack 
> size is shortened as the menu scrolls out of view off the top.) For that 
> OS, you'll need to set the menubar property of the stack to the name of 
> the group. You only need to do that once during development. After that, 
> whenever the stack comes forward, it's own menubar will replace the 
> other one automatically.
> 
> Every stack can have its own menubar. If you want no menubar at all on 
> Windows it isn't a problem, just don't create one. On Macs, there must 
> be something in the system menu; you can't have an empty system menu. 
> For Macs, choose one of your menubar groups (from any open stack) and 
> set it (once during development) as the defaultMenubar. When you do 
> this, the default menu you've set up will display whenever a stack does 
> not have its own menubar assigned.
> 
> In the IDE, the default menubar belongs to Rev, so you'll see better 
> results from this approach if you only set a default menubar in your 
> standalone. If you set it during development, you are apt to lose the 
> IDE's menubar.
> 
>   Can you put just one menu item in the substack and
> > get it to add that item to the main menu when that substack is open and then
> > when you go to a different substack a different item is added?
> 
> You can, but it takes a lot of script tinkering with buttons and 
> layering and contents, etc. It's much easier to just duplicate an 
> existing menubar, change what's necessary, place it in a stack, and 
> assign that as the menubar for the stack.
> 

Hi.

I want to do what you have described and change the menus on the menubar
as I switch between different cards in the same stack.  ( I am using Mac
OS 10.5  with Rev 3.0 ) I don't want to do this in the application I am
working on till I get it right so  I have set up a test stack "menutest"
to try this out. Once I created the seondcard I created a second menubar
from scratch using the Menubuilder tool.  I use the following commands
in the card scripts of the stack's two cards.


card maincard's script 

on opencard 
    set the menubar of stack "menutest"to "mainMenubar" 
end opencard

card secondcard's script 

on opencard 
     set the menubar of stack "menutest" to "secondMenubar" 
end opencard

The result is that the menubars do change but  the stack gets shorter
and each time I switch from the second card to the first card or visa
versa.  So my question is do I have to reset the stack height each time
as part of these scripts or is there another way to prevent the height
change?

As well on the second card I get the "MainMenubar" group  appearing in
the secondcard window as buttons with the "secondMenuBar" in the menu
bar of the Mac.  How do I prevent this from happening?

I have tried also setting the defaultmenubar in the above scripts but as
you noted in the development enviroment I loose the revolution IDE
menubar and have to quit and relauch Revolution to get it back.

Another question is how do I properly duplicate the menubar.  Menu
Builder does not have a way to duplicate the menubar as far as I can
see.  (I don't want to have to create my menubar from scratch with menu
builder, I would rather duplicate and make changes.)

I tried to duplicate the mainmenubar group in the application browser on
card maincard but the duplicate option was disabled.   I then tried to
duplicate the group "secondMenuBar" on card secondcard (where the
'duplicate' menu item was available)was successful in duplicating it and
renaming it as "thirdMenubar". However in the application browser I
could see that it appeared only on card secondcard not on card maincard.
 I could use the 'thirdMenubar' on the second card if I substituted it
in the open card script for card secondcard so perhaps there is no
problem having this group only on the card that I will be using the menu
on. (I have noticed new cards created after the new menubar was created
will get the newly created menubar group placed on them as a background.
  If I create a menu bar with the Menubuilder it creates the group on on
all existing cards.)

There is an option when creating a menubuilder to 'move objects down to
accomodate menubar' that probably is the answer to the card shortening
problem.  What should the proper setting be for Mac OS and also how can
I set that option when I duplicate the menubar and then set it by
script.


Any further explanation of this would be welcome.

Thanks in advance

Martin







From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Dec 29 11:25:50 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:25:50 -0800
Subject: Menu bars on main stack and different menus on substacks
Message-ID: <4958FA0E.40309@fourthworld.com>

Martin Koob wrote:

> I want to do what you have described and change the menus on the menubar
> as I switch between different cards in the same stack.

Why do you want to do that?

Might it be easier to just follow Apple's guidelines and enable/disable 
menus items as needed?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From shoreagent at gmail.com  Mon Dec 29 12:12:29 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:12:29 -0400
Subject: Menu bars on main stack and different menus on substacks
In-Reply-To: <4958FA0E.40309@fourthworld.com>
References: <4958FA0E.40309@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812290912i5cc98754o45b4c8de64eaaa79@mail.gmail.com>

I think it is because we're trying to create contextual menus. It is a good
idea to follow Apple's guidelines too though (never thought of reading
that).  I ended up doing it with pop-menu buttons and not using the menu
builder.

On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com
> wrote:

> Martin Koob wrote:
>
>  I want to do what you have described and change the menus on the menubar
>> as I switch between different cards in the same stack.
>>
>
> Why do you want to do that?
>
> Might it be easier to just follow Apple's guidelines and enable/disable
> menus items as needed?
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World
>  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.bluewatermaritime.com


From randall at randallreetz.com  Mon Dec 29 12:11:29 2008
From: randall at randallreetz.com (Randall Reetz)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:11:29 -0800
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
Message-ID: <20081229171434.UQDG9346.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>

Anyone interested in providing an easy bare essentials tutorial for client server communication from an xtalk projects perspective?  There are a lot of "the rest of us" who need help storming the web's gates.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Bill Marriott" <wjm at wjm.org>
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Sent: 12/28/2008 12:42 AM
Subject: Re: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...

> Oh, and i am not interested in web pages.  I need superfast communication

From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Dec 29 12:31:24 2008
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:31:24 -0600
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
In-Reply-To: <20081229171434.UQDG9346.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>
References: <20081229171434.UQDG9346.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>
Message-ID: <665591460812290931v475b3767r8f22fcb8ae0e4cd1@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Randall Reetz <randall at randallreetz.com>wrote:

> Anyone interested in providing an easy bare essentials tutorial for client
> server communication from an xtalk projects perspective?  There are a lot of
> "the rest of us" who need help storming the web's gates.


Well, here's a link to setting up a CGI (the server part)

http://www.hyperactivesw.com/cgitutorial/index.html

and the client part is as easy as putting in a button:

put URL ("http://myserver.com/myCGI?firstname=fred&password=123") into
tLoginSuccessful

Of course it's Transcript (or Revolution) not just xTalk.


From mkoob at rogers.com  Mon Dec 29 12:34:17 2008
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 17:34:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Menu bars on main stack and different menus on substacks
References: <4958FA0E.40309@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20081229T162943-735@post.gmane.org>

Richard Gaskin <ambassador at ...> writes:


> 
> Why do you want to do that?
> 
> Might it be easier to just follow Apple's guidelines and enable/disable 
> menus items as needed?
> 
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World
>   Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>   Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


I had been doing that, enabling and disabling items but I have added a
feature to a new card so now one menu item should have submenus on one
card and no submenus on another card.  This is how I would like the file
menu to appear.

Card 1

File 
	New Project... 
	Open Project... 
	Save Project 
	Close Project

Card 3 
File 
	New Project 
		>from existing movie... 
		>from recording... 
	Open Project 
	Save Project 
	Close Project


To this point I just disabled the New Project item on card three and
added a New Project menu button to the card that shows the two options
when clicked.  I want to move that function back into the menu for
consistency so that Is why I was looking at changing the menu bar.  I
guess the other way is to change the menu so that there are three
submenus to handle all options and enable them depending on the context.

Martin











From userev at canelasoftware.com  Mon Dec 29 14:09:19 2008
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:09:19 -0800
Subject: Andre's post: Rev and the Web...
In-Reply-To: <gj7duq$v4g$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <20081226075141.QUEO9346.atlmtaow03.cingularme.com@Inbox>
	<gj7duq$v4g$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <F15A3ED7-5681-4A01-8C7B-CFCC82EA09B6@canelasoftware.com>

Hi Randall,

I wrote a simple chat program a long time ago that is commented well  
enough to follow.  You can download it from Richard Gaskin's  RevNet.   
This is found in your plug-ins when Rev is running.  It is called CS  
Chatter box.  It will demonstrate P2P communication without the need  
for a server in the middle.

Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com




From bvlahos at mac.com  Mon Dec 29 14:23:14 2008
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:23:14 -0800
Subject: Date stamp a stack
In-Reply-To: <22C4DB44-ABD4-4051-8DC5-21724D8B28AA@ezpzapps.com>
References: <48A6FF95-8011-47B9-A710-2ABFAC35FE3A@mac.com>
	<22C4DB44-ABD4-4051-8DC5-21724D8B28AA@ezpzapps.com>
Message-ID: <23C9AE7D-80EE-46DE-BEBB-9B80F4A367E5@mac.com>

Interesting idea. However, wouldn't that be similar to putting it into  
a custom property? Someone could edit the script.

Bill

On Dec 29, 2008, at 12:01 AM, Jim Sims wrote:

>
> On Dec 29, 2008, at 7:16 AM, Bill Vlahos wrote:
>
>> I would like to store a date stamp on a document stack when it is  
>> created by my program in a way that can't be changed by the user  
>> but that my program can examine.
>
> set the script of btn "createDate" to the date
>
> Does that work?
>
> sims
>
> sims at ezpzapps.com
> Skype:   sims.jim
> iChat:   techietours
> ______________________
> Opportunity by Design
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dalesvp at centurytel.net  Mon Dec 29 14:30:39 2008
From: dalesvp at centurytel.net (Dale Pond)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 12:30:39 -0700
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 63, Issue 45
In-Reply-To: <20081229180004.F172A489796@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20081229180004.F172A489796@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <09CE1BC9-14F4-4BA3-9119-2E936642C753@centurytel.net>

On Dec 29, 2008, at 11:00 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com  
wrote:

> You probably want to eliminate the idle messages and the compact
> stack messages as well.

I don't know what the idle does. Does Rev auto-compact when cards/ 
data are deleted?

> You may want to stop using stacks entirely. Approximately how many
> stacks are there?

Approximately 229 stacks right now. So it seems logical to control  
all the stacks, cards, commands and functions from one location/script.

> Approximately how many cards per stack?

Card count varies a lot. There are approximately 16,000 cards  
altogether - give or take a couple or three thousand. Some stacks  
have a few cards while others have hundreds.

> How much information in a typical field?

Varies a lot. From a few words to several thousand. Most data cards  
have usually six fields. Some have more while some have less. HC/Rev  
is so incredibly flexible with data and what makes them winners in my  
opinion is the ability to search every word in every card and  
manipulate that which is found.

> Why are there separate stacks, instead of one large one?

To keep data grouped in diverse ways. For instance there are 42 cards  
each containing spectra from each element. There are 26 cards one for  
each letter of the alphabet to catch general stuff. There are many  
stacks that each contain the full text of a book. I'm always adding  
new books into their own single stack. Keeping data types separate  
keeps my options open to change that stack or stack set if and when  
needed or to manipulate them as needed - this has occurred before.

> Who uses HyperVibes, for what, why?

I use HV every single day as a data library and reference. These  
stacks are my personal data collection and research collected since  
1970s and (not quite all) hand typed by myself. These are my research  
notes. So you see to be able to search all these cards to find  
specific references is important to my work as a researcher and  
writer. In the end I do not see any reason to redesign the collection  
- way too much data for that now. If the HyperSearch stack can be  
made to work like it did in HC I would be quite happy.

> Paul Looney
>




From sims at ezpzapps.com  Mon Dec 29 14:33:09 2008
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim Sims)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:33:09 +0100
Subject: Date stamp a stack
In-Reply-To: <23C9AE7D-80EE-46DE-BEBB-9B80F4A367E5@mac.com>
References: <48A6FF95-8011-47B9-A710-2ABFAC35FE3A@mac.com>
	<22C4DB44-ABD4-4051-8DC5-21724D8B28AA@ezpzapps.com>
	<23C9AE7D-80EE-46DE-BEBB-9B80F4A367E5@mac.com>
Message-ID: <7B4F78DB-1BB8-4F2B-B790-68EF12576C8A@ezpzapps.com>


On Dec 29, 2008, at 8:23 PM, Bill Vlahos wrote:

> Interesting idea. However, wouldn't that be similar to putting it  
> into a custom property? Someone could edit the script.

Ok... How's this one sound:  encrypt the date, put it into a  
userProperty, perhaps
use some bit of retrievable string when doing the encryption/decryption.

sims

> On Dec 29, 2008, at 12:01 AM, Jim Sims wrote:
>
>>
>> On Dec 29, 2008, at 7:16 AM, Bill Vlahos wrote:
>>
>>> I would like to store a date stamp on a document stack when it is  
>>> created by my program in a way that can't be changed by the user  
>>> but that my program can examine.
>>
>> set the script of btn "createDate" to the date
>



sims

sims at ezpzapps.com
Skype:   sims.jim
iChat:   techietours
______________________
Opportunity by Design






From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Dec 29 14:37:15 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:37:15 -0600
Subject: Zlib decompression - Any ideas?
In-Reply-To: <C57C9439.187A8%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <C57E830B.1885E%kray@sonsothunder.com>

>> So I'm guessing that a shell call to gunzip should be able to cope...
> 
> Thanks, Mark... I'll see how that works when I get the files...

OK, I got the files, and they were created using Delphi on Windows with the
"TCompressionStream" method. I'm trying to read them from Rev, and gunzip
complains with "not in gzip format".

Is it possible that since it came from Windows that there's some byte
ordering issues here? Or are there any other suggestions?

Thanks,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From h at FlexibleLearning.com  Mon Dec 29 14:43:41 2008
From: h at FlexibleLearning.com (Hugh Senior)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 19:43:41 -0000
Subject: Date stamp a stack
In-Reply-To: <20081229180005.15F5E48979C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <EDEJIJJCKEHACBBDLIONMEMICBAA.h@FlexibleLearning.com>

On Dec 29, 2008, at 7:16 AM, Bill Vlahos wrote:

> I would like to store a date stamp on a document stack when it is
> created by my program in a way that can't be changed by the user but
> that my program can examine.

Many ways, but one could be "set the altID of this stack to the seconds". Or
use your own customProperty, of course.

/H



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Dec 29 15:37:33 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 12:37:33 -0800
Subject: Menu bars on main stack and different menus on substacks
Message-ID: <4959350D.9000709@fourthworld.com>

Martin Koob wrote:

> Richard Gaskin <ambassador at ...> writes: 
>> 
>> Why do you want to do that?
>> 
>> Might it be easier to just follow Apple's guidelines and enable/disable 
>> menus items as needed?
> 
> I had been doing that, enabling and disabling items but I have added a
> feature to a new card so now one menu item should have submenus on one
> card and no submenus on another card.  This is how I would like the file
> menu to appear.
> 
> Card 1
> 
> File 
> 	New Project... 
> 	Open Project... 
> 	Save Project 
> 	Close Project
> 
> Card 3 
> File 
> 	New Project 
> 		>from existing movie... 
> 		>from recording... 
> 	Open Project 
> 	Save Project 
> 	Close Project
> 
> 
> To this point I just disabled the New Project item on card three and
> added a New Project menu button to the card that shows the two options
> when clicked.  I want to move that function back into the menu for
> consistency so that Is why I was looking at changing the menu bar.  I
> guess the other way is to change the menu so that there are three
> submenus to handle all options and enable them depending on the context.

Being the lazy person I am, I wonder what the downside would be to just 
leave the two sub-menu items in place across all the cards.  But I also 
recognize that I have no idea what the app does, so that may not be a 
suitable option. :)

If not, one approach I've used for menu updating is to store a list of 
items in a custom prop, and on mouseDown in the menu group I populate 
the menu buttons, adding, deleting, or modifying items as needed.  With 
Rev 2.7 forward the mousedown message is sent to a menu group even when 
using a keyboard menu shortcut, and even with the mouse it completes 
processing before the menu is displayed, so one mouseDown handler lets 
me handle all menu updates gracefully.

This might seem that it would be slow, but the engine is amazingly fast 
with this sort of thing; I doubt you'd ever notice any impairment in 
responsiveness.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From lists at futilism.com  Mon Dec 29 15:59:16 2008
From: lists at futilism.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:59:16 +0000
Subject: Date stamp a stack
In-Reply-To: <23C9AE7D-80EE-46DE-BEBB-9B80F4A367E5@mac.com>
References: <48A6FF95-8011-47B9-A710-2ABFAC35FE3A@mac.com>
	<22C4DB44-ABD4-4051-8DC5-21724D8B28AA@ezpzapps.com>
	<23C9AE7D-80EE-46DE-BEBB-9B80F4A367E5@mac.com>
Message-ID: <3983B844-F223-432D-B344-EF418F16489C@futilism.com>

Can I ask what the aim is? Is it a question of security? How crucial  
is it? Bear in mind that with easily available tools, the creation  
date in the filesystem itself can be altered.

Best,

Mark

On 29 Dec 2008, at 19:23, Bill Vlahos wrote:

> Interesting idea. However, wouldn't that be similar to putting it  
> into a custom property? Someone could edit the script.
>
> Bill
>
> On Dec 29, 2008, at 12:01 AM, Jim Sims wrote:
>
>>
>> On Dec 29, 2008, at 7:16 AM, Bill Vlahos wrote:
>>
>>> I would like to store a date stamp on a document stack when it is  
>>> created by my program in a way that can't be changed by the user  
>>> but that my program can examine.
>>
>> set the script of btn "createDate" to the date
>>
>> Does that work?
>>
>> sims
>>
>> sims at ezpzapps.com
>> Skype:   sims.jim
>> iChat:   techietours
>> ______________________
>> Opportunity by Design
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From lists at futilism.com  Mon Dec 29 16:04:32 2008
From: lists at futilism.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:04:32 +0000
Subject: Zlib decompression - Any ideas?
In-Reply-To: <C57E830B.1885E%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <C57E830B.1885E%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <9911A839-ED39-4356-9C93-AD37259199E7@futilism.com>

I wonder if these files are simply raw compressed data with no  
headers or enclosing 'container'.

I'm assuming you've tried just reading in the binary data and using  
'decompress' in revolution - the docs for 'compress/decompress' say  
it's based on zlib compression.

Best,

Mark

On 29 Dec 2008, at 19:37, Ken Ray wrote:

>>> So I'm guessing that a shell call to gunzip should be able to  
>>> cope...
>>
>> Thanks, Mark... I'll see how that works when I get the files...
>
> OK, I got the files, and they were created using Delphi on Windows  
> with the
> "TCompressionStream" method. I'm trying to read them from Rev, and  
> gunzip
> complains with "not in gzip format".
>
> Is it possible that since it came from Windows that there's some byte
> ordering issues here? Or are there any other suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From williamdesmet at gmail.com  Mon Dec 29 16:10:58 2008
From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 22:10:58 +0100
Subject: Backup sort of thing?
Message-ID: <b016f13e0812291310t4020b465yca0e57473449263e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
There used to be a thread about saving .rev files as .txt files.
I don't know whether it was a backup-sort-of-thing anymore but is there
anyone out there who knows what I am talking about?
I couldn't find it on the list.

Greetings,

William


From support at ahsomme.com  Mon Dec 29 16:40:09 2008
From: support at ahsomme.com (Paul Looney)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:40:09 -0800
Subject: HC to Rev conversion
Message-ID: <A9A1EAC6-E41E-4342-B048-12DAB295682F@ahsomme.com>

Dale Pond wrote:

"In the end I do not see any reason to redesign the collection - way  
too much data for that now. If the HyperSearch stack can be made to  
work like it did in HC I would be quite happy."

Dale,
I might as well start with the bad news:
You will not be able to get what you want with a simple HC/Rev  
conversion.
Rev has many virtues but it just does not handle large number of  
records well - in stack form. We found this out the hard way;  
operations on large stacks that took a few minutes in HC would take  
hours (many hours) in Rev. The problems become significant around  
5000 cards and became exponentially worse as the number of cards  
increases.
The size of large stacks also increase significantly when imported  
into Rev.
Big stacks, converted to Rev, take longer to open, longer to save,  
and longer to close than they did in HC.
There are other ways to handle this data in Rev (text files come  
immediately to mind - and they are faster and smaller than stacks).  
There are many talented people on this list who could help you make  
this conversion. If you wish to do this work yourself - with some  
guidance, you might consider a mentoring program using your data  
(perhaps with the Master Mentor, Jerry Daniels).
Fortunately the data (the most important part of your collection)  
could be imported to the new framework via script - there should be  
minimal manual work required.
Regarding the "idle" commands: I found them in the HyperSearch stack  
you posted recently. Idle commands are a bad thing for a variety of  
reasons and should be avoided (with Rev's ability to send a command  
at some future time, they just are not needed in Rev.) For example,  
one place your stack used an Idle command was to periodically compact  
the current stack; compacting was critical in HC, HC appended data to  
the file when it was changed and only consolidated the information  
when the stack was compacted (basically, all of the data in the file/ 
stack was re-written to a new contigueous stack). If this was not  
done periodically in HC, the stack's directory would loose track of  
parts of the file - and the stack would become corrupted. Rev does  
not have this problem - and does not need regular compaction.
By changing the framework for your information you can eliminate many  
workarounds that HyperSearch used to accomodate HC. You would get  
more speed, a more convenient interface, reduced storage  
requirements, faster backups, more flexible searches, etc.
I sympathize with your desire to do a simple conversion. When I  
started with Rev in 2001 I had almost 15 years work in HC-based  
business systems, used daily by thousands of people - and all "I"  
wanted was a simple conversion. We tried.
In the end, it was easier (and better) to rebuild the framework in  
Rev. The problem ended up being an opportunity.
Sincerely,
Paul Looney


From bvlahos at mac.com  Mon Dec 29 17:30:41 2008
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 14:30:41 -0800
Subject: Date stamp a stack
In-Reply-To: <3983B844-F223-432D-B344-EF418F16489C@futilism.com>
References: <48A6FF95-8011-47B9-A710-2ABFAC35FE3A@mac.com>
	<22C4DB44-ABD4-4051-8DC5-21724D8B28AA@ezpzapps.com>
	<23C9AE7D-80EE-46DE-BEBB-9B80F4A367E5@mac.com>
	<3983B844-F223-432D-B344-EF418F16489C@futilism.com>
Message-ID: <EB272BB3-F3B4-453C-8F80-BCAE25E37DB7@mac.com>

Mark,

Sure. It is for licensing. I was thinking that this would be a good  
method for a limited time trial of my software. The document stack  
would contain the user's data and the program would check the creation  
date of the data stack for the trail period. Once the user paid for  
the software it would no longer care what the creation date was.

Bill

On Dec 29, 2008, at 12:59 PM, Mark Smith wrote:

> Can I ask what the aim is? Is it a question of security? How crucial  
> is it? Bear in mind that with easily available tools, the creation  
> date in the filesystem itself can be altered.
>
> Best,
>
> Mark
>
> On 29 Dec 2008, at 19:23, Bill Vlahos wrote:
>
>> Interesting idea. However, wouldn't that be similar to putting it  
>> into a custom property? Someone could edit the script.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> On Dec 29, 2008, at 12:01 AM, Jim Sims wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 29, 2008, at 7:16 AM, Bill Vlahos wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would like to store a date stamp on a document stack when it is  
>>>> created by my program in a way that can't be changed by the user  
>>>> but that my program can examine.
>>>
>>> set the script of btn "createDate" to the date
>>>
>>> Does that work?
>>>
>>> sims
>>>
>>> sims at ezpzapps.com
>>> Skype:   sims.jim
>>> iChat:   techietours
>>> ______________________
>>> Opportunity by Design
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From lists at futilism.com  Mon Dec 29 18:24:13 2008
From: lists at futilism.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 23:24:13 +0000
Subject: Date stamp a stack
In-Reply-To: <EB272BB3-F3B4-453C-8F80-BCAE25E37DB7@mac.com>
References: <48A6FF95-8011-47B9-A710-2ABFAC35FE3A@mac.com>
	<22C4DB44-ABD4-4051-8DC5-21724D8B28AA@ezpzapps.com>
	<23C9AE7D-80EE-46DE-BEBB-9B80F4A367E5@mac.com>
	<3983B844-F223-432D-B344-EF418F16489C@futilism.com>
	<EB272BB3-F3B4-453C-8F80-BCAE25E37DB7@mac.com>
Message-ID: <516B33B8-1A29-4DC5-A2E2-4315D716A6C5@futilism.com>

Bill, I'm sure that anyone really determined to break such a scheme  
will be able to do so, but a couple of ideas for making it a bit  
harder occur to me:

1. Use some basic indirection - store the expiry date in one place,  
and an md5 of it in another. If the expiry date gets changed, it will  
no longer match the md5, and you'll know it's been changed.

2. Obscure the date. Generate a large random number and insert the  
numerals that make up the date in a particular order and in  
particular character positions within the random number.

3. Store the date as a custom property of a hidden control.

4. Encrypt the date with a key that you store on your server (so your  
app has to grab it each time it checks the date, not so good if your  
users launch your app while offline).

Best,

Mark


On 29 Dec 2008, at 22:30, Bill Vlahos wrote:

> Mark,
>
> Sure. It is for licensing. I was thinking that this would be a good  
> method for a limited time trial of my software. The document stack  
> would contain the user's data and the program would check the  
> creation date of the data stack for the trail period. Once the user  
> paid for the software it would no longer care what the creation  
> date was.
>
> Bill
>
> On Dec 29, 2008, at 12:59 PM, Mark Smith wrote:
>
>> Can I ask what the aim is? Is it a question of security? How  
>> crucial is it? Bear in mind that with easily available tools, the  
>> creation date in the filesystem itself can be altered.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> On 29 Dec 2008, at 19:23, Bill Vlahos wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting idea. However, wouldn't that be similar to putting it  
>>> into a custom property? Someone could edit the script.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> On Dec 29, 2008, at 12:01 AM, Jim Sims wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 29, 2008, at 7:16 AM, Bill Vlahos wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I would like to store a date stamp on a document stack when it  
>>>>> is created by my program in a way that can't be changed by the  
>>>>> user but that my program can examine.
>>>>
>>>> set the script of btn "createDate" to the date
>>>>
>>>> Does that work?
>>>>
>>>> sims
>>>>
>>>> sims at ezpzapps.com
>>>> Skype:   sims.jim
>>>> iChat:   techietours
>>>> ______________________
>>>> Opportunity by Design
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Dec 29 18:37:00 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 17:37:00 -0600
Subject: Zlib decompression - Any ideas?
In-Reply-To: <9911A839-ED39-4356-9C93-AD37259199E7@futilism.com>
Message-ID: <C57EBB3C.18885%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 12/29/08 3:04 PM, "Mark Smith" <lists at futilism.com> wrote:

> I wonder if these files are simply raw compressed data with no
> headers or enclosing 'container'.
> 
> I'm assuming you've tried just reading in the binary data and using
> 'decompress' in revolution - the docs for 'compress/decompress' say
> it's based on zlib compression.

Yes, I get an error that it's "not compressed data". My understanding was
that the compress/decompress in Rev is gzip format, which is a wrapper
around zlib-compressed data. But beyond that, I have no idea...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From briany at qldlearning.com  Mon Dec 29 18:40:37 2008
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:40:37 -0800
Subject: Date stamp a stack
In-Reply-To: <23C9AE7D-80EE-46DE-BEBB-9B80F4A367E5@mac.com>
References: <48A6FF95-8011-47B9-A710-2ABFAC35FE3A@mac.com>
	<22C4DB44-ABD4-4051-8DC5-21724D8B28AA@ezpzapps.com>
	<23C9AE7D-80EE-46DE-BEBB-9B80F4A367E5@mac.com>
Message-ID: <2C32A621-7AD0-4AD9-9C66-3C9BF94D83C0@qldlearning.com>

> Interesting idea. However, wouldn't that be similar to putting it  
> into a custom property? Someone could edit the script.

Not if you set the password of the stack -- then the script will be  
encrypted. A would-be hacker would have to hack into your application,  
discover the password, then apply the password to the document, then  
view the script. Seems like a lot of work versus just licensing your  
app, which is essentially the point.

Of course there are many, many ways to approach this but your approach  
seems reasonable to me and scripts are pretty secure if you're not  
hiding national security issues in there =).

If you want more layers, you could add additional encryption and/or  
obfuscation. For example, if you want to hide obvious mechanisms from  
prying eyes in your script, you could do something like:

on timeStampDocument tDoc
  set the script of stack tDoc to (the seconds)
  ...
end timeStampDocument

==>

on wiufbr hd
  do ("set the"&&pr()&&" of "&&st()&&hd&&"to ghfd()")
end wiufbr
...

Obviously this is not a "real" protection, but realistically it is one  
more layer preventing someone from doing a quick cost/benefit on  
hacking your app and coming out on top.

Generally my advice would be to use a decent ready-made encryption  
(such as comes with a password protected stack), and consider whether  
there are really any potential paying customers  who are willing to  
break that encryption -- and if so, are there so many as to make it  
worth investing additional money and time into protection schemes. If  
the answer is no, use the out-of-the-box stuff and invest the rest of  
your time into features =).

- Brian




From briany at qldlearning.com  Mon Dec 29 18:44:21 2008
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:44:21 -0800
Subject: Zlib decompression - Any ideas?
In-Reply-To: <C57EBB3C.18885%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <C57EBB3C.18885%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <60F1DA73-95B4-4B1E-9A26-DA4B6F7D03F1@qldlearning.com>

Ken,

Can you compress a copy of the original file with Rev, and compare it  
to the zlib compressed copy? Does the data look totally different, or  
maybe just off by a few bytes / headers?

If you have a MacOS X machine (or Linux) handy, you can use gzip and  
gunzip as command-line equivalents of compress() and decompress() and  
see how those results compare as well...

> On 12/29/08 3:04 PM, "Mark Smith" <lists at futilism.com> wrote:
>
>> I wonder if these files are simply raw compressed data with no
>> headers or enclosing 'container'.
>>
>> I'm assuming you've tried just reading in the binary data and using
>> 'decompress' in revolution - the docs for 'compress/decompress' say
>> it's based on zlib compression.
>
> Yes, I get an error that it's "not compressed data". My  
> understanding was
> that the compress/decompress in Rev is gzip format, which is a wrapper
> around zlib-compressed data. But beyond that, I have no idea...
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/





From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Dec 29 18:50:35 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 17:50:35 -0600
Subject: Zlib decompression - Any ideas?
In-Reply-To: <60F1DA73-95B4-4B1E-9A26-DA4B6F7D03F1@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <C57EBE6B.1888B%kray@sonsothunder.com>

> Can you compress a copy of the original file with Rev, and compare it
> to the zlib compressed copy? Does the data look totally different, or
> maybe just off by a few bytes / headers?

Unfortunately, I don't have the original file... the files I'm receiving are
from another program on Windows that only decompresses the data in memory;
the files on disk are always in a compressed state, so the files I can look
at are always compressed.

> If you have a MacOS X machine (or Linux) handy, you can use gzip and
> gunzip as command-line equivalents of compress() and decompress() and
> see how those results compare as well...

Yeah, I've tried that already and keep getting errors that the data is "not
compressed".

:-(

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From jerry.daniels at me.com  Mon Dec 29 19:04:38 2008
From: jerry.daniels at me.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 18:04:38 -0600
Subject: HC to Rev conversion
In-Reply-To: <A9A1EAC6-E41E-4342-B048-12DAB295682F@ahsomme.com>
References: <A9A1EAC6-E41E-4342-B048-12DAB295682F@ahsomme.com>
Message-ID: <0D456602-43E4-41AB-B83D-7C17EB581A21@me.com>

Dale,

Paul is right on the money regarding issues with over 5000 cards.  
There are plenty of ways to deal with your data, however that do not  
necessitate the use of cards. You can use a standard SQL database, a  
"hand-made" database using custom properties, or flat files.

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Host of Rev Mentor
http://www.revmentor.com

On Dec 29, 2008, at 3:40 PM, Paul Looney wrote:

> Dale Pond wrote:
>
> "In the end I do not see any reason to redesign the collection - way  
> too much data for that now. If the HyperSearch stack can be made to  
> work like it did in HC I would be quite happy."
>
> Dale,
> I might as well start with the bad news:
> You will not be able to get what you want with a simple HC/Rev  
> conversion.
> Rev has many virtues but it just does not handle large number of  
> records well - in stack form. We found this out the hard way;  
> operations on large stacks that took a few minutes in HC would take  
> hours (many hours) in Rev. The problems become significant around  
> 5000 cards and became exponentially worse as the number of cards  
> increases.
> The size of large stacks also increase significantly when imported  
> into Rev.
> Big stacks, converted to Rev, take longer to open, longer to save,  
> and longer to close than they did in HC.
> There are other ways to handle this data in Rev (text files come  
> immediately to mind - and they are faster and smaller than stacks).  
> There are many talented people on this list who could help you make  
> this conversion. If you wish to do this work yourself - with some  
> guidance, you might consider a mentoring program using your data  
> (perhaps with the Master Mentor, Jerry Daniels).
> Fortunately the data (the most important part of your collection)  
> could be imported to the new framework via script - there should be  
> minimal manual work required.
> Regarding the "idle" commands: I found them in the HyperSearch stack  
> you posted recently. Idle commands are a bad thing for a variety of  
> reasons and should be avoided (with Rev's ability to send a command  
> at some future time, they just are not needed in Rev.) For example,  
> one place your stack used an Idle command was to periodically  
> compact the current stack; compacting was critical in HC, HC  
> appended data to the file when it was changed and only consolidated  
> the information when the stack was compacted (basically, all of the  
> data in the file/stack was re-written to a new contigueous stack).  
> If this was not done periodically in HC, the stack's directory would  
> loose track of parts of the file - and the stack would become  
> corrupted. Rev does not have this problem - and does not need  
> regular compaction.
> By changing the framework for your information you can eliminate  
> many workarounds that HyperSearch used to accomodate HC. You would  
> get more speed, a more convenient interface, reduced storage  
> requirements, faster backups, more flexible searches, etc.
> I sympathize with your desire to do a simple conversion. When I  
> started with Rev in 2001 I had almost 15 years work in HC-based  
> business systems, used daily by thousands of people - and all "I"  
> wanted was a simple conversion. We tried.
> In the end, it was easier (and better) to rebuild the framework in  
> Rev. The problem ended up being an opportunity.
> Sincerely,
> Paul Looney
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From briany at qldlearning.com  Mon Dec 29 19:09:22 2008
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:09:22 -0800
Subject: Zlib decompression - Any ideas?
In-Reply-To: <C57EBE6B.1888B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <C57EBE6B.1888B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <F722BDA5-7642-44DF-A362-746C8DBFF951@qldlearning.com>

Ken,

Unfortunately it sounds like you are dealing with a Windows "zip"  
archive which is different from a "gzip" encoded archive. See this  
post for a nutshell explanation:
http://aplawrence.com/Bofcusm/2615.html

In short, they are related but not interoperable. You will probably  
have to tap into an actual "zip" library if these files have been  
compressed using a different algorithm than gzip.

With that said, there should be command-line "zip" utilities for every  
OS, so you might still be able to include those and use shell() calls.

>> Can you compress a copy of the original file with Rev, and compare it
>> to the zlib compressed copy? Does the data look totally different, or
>> maybe just off by a few bytes / headers?
>
> Unfortunately, I don't have the original file... the files I'm  
> receiving are
> from another program on Windows that only decompresses the data in  
> memory;
> the files on disk are always in a compressed state, so the files I  
> can look
> at are always compressed.
>
>> If you have a MacOS X machine (or Linux) handy, you can use gzip and
>> gunzip as command-line equivalents of compress() and decompress() and
>> see how those results compare as well...
>
> Yeah, I've tried that already and keep getting errors that the data  
> is "not
> compressed".
>
> :-(
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/





From lists at futilism.com  Mon Dec 29 19:10:39 2008
From: lists at futilism.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 00:10:39 +0000
Subject: Zlib decompression - Any ideas?
In-Reply-To: <C57EBE6B.1888B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <C57EBE6B.1888B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <75F46DBC-DC8C-4B08-91A6-ACDB48CBF188@futilism.com>

One last idea - what does the data actually look like? If you examine  
the files and find that the first n bytes are the same in each one,  
it may be possible to simply strip off that n bytes and pass the rest  
to 'decompress'...

Best,

Mark

ps. I suppose it might be an idea to ask about the format of  
'TCompressedstreams' (or whatever it was) in a Delphi forum.

On 29 Dec 2008, at 23:50, Ken Ray wrote:

>> Can you compress a copy of the original file with Rev, and compare it
>> to the zlib compressed copy? Does the data look totally different, or
>> maybe just off by a few bytes / headers?
>
> Unfortunately, I don't have the original file... the files I'm  
> receiving are
> from another program on Windows that only decompresses the data in  
> memory;
> the files on disk are always in a compressed state, so the files I  
> can look
> at are always compressed.
>
>> If you have a MacOS X machine (or Linux) handy, you can use gzip and
>> gunzip as command-line equivalents of compress() and decompress() and
>> see how those results compare as well...
>
> Yeah, I've tried that already and keep getting errors that the data  
> is "not
> compressed".
>
> :-(
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From pepetoo at cox.net  Mon Dec 29 20:28:44 2008
From: pepetoo at cox.net (Joe Lewis Wilkins)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 17:28:44 -0800
Subject: HC to Rev conversion
In-Reply-To: <A9A1EAC6-E41E-4342-B048-12DAB295682F@ahsomme.com>
References: <A9A1EAC6-E41E-4342-B048-12DAB295682F@ahsomme.com>
Message-ID: <CD902ECE-0B77-43B4-B96F-41F6AEC8AFF7@cox.net>

Dale,

If I get your drift, YOU are the user and you'll be working with  
stacks. Correct? And you really don't have that many really large  
stacks? Just a lot of them and a couple of large ones? But even those  
fall short of the "magic" 5,000 card number?

Paul's suggestion that you eliminate the stack compaction and all "on  
idle" handlers is valid for the reasons explained by others.

With the number of stacks you have, doing "start using" for all of  
them is going to take a while, but instead of calling them every now  
and then as you find you need them, perhaps you could just load all of  
them into memory at the outset when you start working; not something  
that could have even been considered before the new Macs with gobs of  
RAM. This is going to make everything run fast once you get going.

I think I WOULD consider moving some of the "fixed data" into external  
text files that you can easily create with scripting and can be loaded  
VERY fast at the outset. I don't have a really good picture as to what  
you are doing, but I think you can minimize the rewriting by doing  
something like what I've suggested. I think it's going to be difficult  
to find out why the HyperSearch isn't working correctly until you have  
all of the material it searches converted to Rev and external text  
files. Obviously, this isn't going to be done too easily and I'm sure  
you'll find some better ways to manage things as you work with over  
200 stacks. (whew!)

Good luck,

Joe Wilkins

On Dec 29, 2008, at 1:40 PM, Paul Looney wrote:

> Dale Pond wrote:
>
> "In the end I do not see any reason to redesign the collection - way  
> too much data for that now. If the HyperSearch stack can be made to  
> work like it did in HC I would be quite happy."



From wjm at wjm.org  Mon Dec 29 06:02:04 2008
From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 06:02:04 -0500
Subject: Date stamp a stack
References: <48A6FF95-8011-47B9-A710-2ABFAC35FE3A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <gjcbtt$qdl$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hi Bill,

> Is there some other way of storing the date stamp on a stack?

A few thoughts come to mind:

- I wonder why you're using a stack as a data file? If it's unavoidable, 
perhaps you could compress it and (if you have Enterprise) encrypt it on 
disk, expanding and decrypting it when you read it into memory.

- put the date stamp as a custom property like you originally thought, but 
as above, encrypting the info or at least obfuscating it. (At least 
properties aren't as easily discoverable as other aspects of a stack.)

- password-protect the stack to prohibit people from peeking into spots 
(like scripts) where you'll store the date stamp

- put the date (obscured) and the md5Digest of it as a checksum. If someone 
tries to modify the date, you can pop up an alert.

- I would not in any situation rely on the detailed files, as various 
activities can cause the creation and modification dates to be altered.

Hope this gives you some ideas,

Bill 





From wjm at wjm.org  Tue Dec 30 00:40:24 2008
From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 00:40:24 -0500
Subject: Date stamp a stack
References: <48A6FF95-8011-47B9-A710-2ABFAC35FE3A@mac.com><22C4DB44-ABD4-4051-8DC5-21724D8B28AA@ezpzapps.com><23C9AE7D-80EE-46DE-BEBB-9B80F4A367E5@mac.com><3983B844-F223-432D-B344-EF418F16489C@futilism.com>
	<EB272BB3-F3B4-453C-8F80-BCAE25E37DB7@mac.com>
Message-ID: <gjcc88$r04$1@ger.gmane.org>

Bill,

> Sure. It is for licensing. I was thinking that this would be a good 
> method for a limited time trial of my software. The document stack  would 
> contain the user's data and the program would check the creation  date of 
> the data stack for the trail period. Once the user paid for  the software 
> it would no longer care what the creation date was.

RevSelect just released Zygodact, which does this exact thing:

http://www.runrev.com/products/related-software/zygodact/

...and it's part of the megabundle, too:





From wjm at wjm.org  Tue Dec 30 00:59:03 2008
From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 00:59:03 -0500
Subject: Date stamp a stack
References: <48A6FF95-8011-47B9-A710-2ABFAC35FE3A@mac.com><22C4DB44-ABD4-4051-8DC5-21724D8B28AA@ezpzapps.com><23C9AE7D-80EE-46DE-BEBB-9B80F4A367E5@mac.com><3983B844-F223-432D-B344-EF418F16489C@futilism.com><EB272BB3-F3B4-453C-8F80-BCAE25E37DB7@mac.com>
	<gjcc88$r04$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <gjcdb8$sp9$1@ger.gmane.org>

Bill,

> It is for licensing. I was thinking that this would be a good method for a 
> limited time trial of my software. The document stack  would contain the 
> user's data and the program would check the creation  date of the data 
> stack for the trail period. Once the user paid for  the software it would 
> no longer care what the creation date was.

RevSelect recently released Zygodact, which does this exact thing:

http://www.runrev.com/products/related-software/zygodact/

...and it's part of the holiday megabundle, too:

http://www.runrev.com/offers/megabundle08/index.htm

So you could get it "free" along with hundreds (to thousands) of dollars of 
other great add-ons and your Rev software assurance (updates) for a year. 
[Not to mention supporting Jacqui and the other great contributors to this 
list who are part of revSelect.]

Now that I know what you're doing -- if you really want to do this on your 
own instead of using a nice, tidy, complete, professionally produced, 
well-documented and well-tested package like Zygodact -- other thoughts 
comes to mind:

- storing the information in the registry (on Windows) or some analogous 
hidden spot on Mac. Again, using encryption and/or an md5 checksum to record 
the value.

- doing what Rev does and using a "trial" key which has the expiration date 
encoded within it. Users can't run the software without such a key; and they 
can't cook up a new key on their own.

- having some sort of online activation where the trial app "phones home" to 
your server, which has information unique to the installed system/user and 
expiration date.

Good luck,

- Bill

[sorry for the near-duplicate; hit ctrl-enter prematurely by mistake]






From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Dec 30 01:18:53 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 00:18:53 -0600
Subject: Date stamp a stack
In-Reply-To: <gjcdb8$sp9$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <48A6FF95-8011-47B9-A710-2ABFAC35FE3A@mac.com><22C4DB44-ABD4-4051-8DC5-21724D8B28AA@ezpzapps.com><23C9AE7D-80EE-46DE-BEBB-9B80F4A367E5@mac.com><3983B844-F223-432D-B344-EF418F16489C@futilism.com><EB272BB3-F3B4-453C-8F80-BCAE25E37DB7@mac.com>	<gjcc88$r04$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<gjcdb8$sp9$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4959BD4D.1010103@hyperactivesw.com>

Bill Marriott wrote:
> Bill,
> 
>> It is for licensing. I was thinking that this would be a good method for a 
>> limited time trial of my software. The document stack  would contain the 
>> user's data and the program would check the creation  date of the data 
>> stack for the trail period. Once the user paid for  the software it would 
>> no longer care what the creation date was.
> 
> RevSelect recently released Zygodact, which does this exact thing:

I should jump in here and mention that Zygodact provides efficient and 
easy software registration and protection, but it does not handle trial 
date expirations automatically. In this initial release, the software 
author does need to track a date themselves to determine when a trial is 
expired. The Zygodact manual has suggestions on how to manage that, but 
any of the ways discussed on the list will work as well.

I've considered adding trial date tracking to Zygodact, but I have mixed 
feelings about it. There are some reasons it probably should not be 
implemented, and should be left to the software author instead.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From wjm at wjm.org  Tue Dec 30 02:11:36 2008
From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 02:11:36 -0500
Subject: HC to Rev conversion help needed
References: <7E233A4B-2162-47E1-AAAF-2550B8411B7B@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <gjchj8$4qp$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hi Dale,

> If someone could repair (or guide me to repair) the scripts in this  stack 
> plus add a new Field of Stacks to search and eliminate the  additional 
> cards it creates because HC had limited field capacity I  would donate the 
> stack to the Rev community. And maybe clean up its  appearance a bit. Any 
> comments on this would be greatly appreciated.  The stacks are located 
> here:

In many ways, your challenge is a "pathological" example of a 
HyperCard-to-Revolution conversion. You have a system which was very nicely 
optimized for the strengths of HyperCard at the time, which included the 
ability to have free-form data structures (stacks) which could have any 
arbitrary information on each card, combined with a Find command which was 
blazingly fast across that data structure. The Revolution world is a little 
bit different.

Just for starters, there are the scores of ancillary stacks which are a part 
of this system, and depending on what kind of scripting is in them, that 
could be a chore in and of itself just to get them to run without errors in 
Revolution. (If there's no scripting in them, perhaps not so tough.) But 
once you've migrated those, you have the challenge of the master 
Index/Searching system itself.

The strategy I would use here is to

- have a "magic" folder where all your content stacks are stored. It could 
be called "HyperVibes Content" for example.
- Give each content stack a "profile" card (or set of custom properties) 
with things like a PNG image of how it should appear on the bookshelf, cover 
art, its plain-English title and author, a version number, date, tiny icon, 
big icon, short description, long description, whatever.
- Then, upon startup of the gateway stack, you scan this folder for new, 
deleted, or changed items.
- When those are found, I would "index" them using an SQL Lite database as 
the storage medium.

- This would involve walking through the new/updated stack content, 
object-by-object, collecting the text that was found, and storing it in the 
SQL Lite database with location information. e.g.:

stackID: 132
stackFile: Vibrations Explained.rev
cardNum: 13
objectRef: field id 1006 of card id 1013 of stack "Vibrations"
textContent: Lorem ipsum dolor sit...

- Your main, gateway stack then becomes an interface to the SQL Lite 
repository. You can perform extremely fast searches within the "textContent" 
field across the entire system, perhaps faster than even HyperCard (much as 
though it were indexed via Google), present a list of the "hits," and 
provide a way for users to navigate to the content.
- Once you solved these issues, adding new content is as simple as dropping 
a new stack into the magic folder, with no re-coding or modification of the 
master stack required. It could appear on the bookshelf automatically; users 
could perhaps even re-arrange the books on their own to suit their own 
personal needs.

Yes, as others have hinted at, this is a re-architecture of the system and 
not simply catching a few places where things need to be tweaked. But in the 
long run you'll gain benefits:

- increased performance
- more easily maintained
- works with Rev's strengths, not against its weaknesses
- more robust/reliable

You can refine the scheme by adding fields to the SQL Lite database that 
provide context (page title, stack name, chapter, etc.) if those can be 
standardized; paying attention to the dontSearch property of a field; 
date/time stamps; authors; captions for images; page/article tags; indexed 
keywords; etc.

You could even envision a system where users download only the master 
gateway application, perform their searches against a networked MySQL 
database, and download the content stacks only when needed.

I know "SQL" is an intimidating term for a lot of us, but there are really 
only a handful of commands you'll need to know (indeed, only a handful 
supported by SQL Lite), and they're truly not that difficult.

Seems like a project with a lot of potential ... worthy of the effort, and 
something that could be of interest to a lot of people -- both from a 
programming and content point-of-view. Hope this helps...

- Bill 





From wjm at wjm.org  Tue Dec 30 03:00:21 2008
From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 03:00:21 -0500
Subject: Date stamp a stack
References: <48A6FF95-8011-47B9-A710-2ABFAC35FE3A@mac.com><22C4DB44-ABD4-4051-8DC5-21724D8B28AA@ezpzapps.com><23C9AE7D-80EE-46DE-BEBB-9B80F4A367E5@mac.com><3983B844-F223-432D-B344-EF418F16489C@futilism.com><EB272BB3-F3B4-453C-8F80-BCAE25E37DB7@mac.com>	<gjcc88$r04$1@ger.gmane.org><gjcdb8$sp9$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<4959BD4D.1010103@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <gjckel$a65$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hi Jacqui,

> Zygodact [...] does not handle trial date expirations automatically. [...] 
> The Zygodact manual has suggestions on how to manage that, but any of the 
> ways discussed on the list will work as well.

Aha, I missed that detail! But perhaps you're a little modest. The 
documentation provides complete sample scripts for handling trial periods 
via a hidden stack, and re-registration of the software once a full code is 
obtained... I haven't implemented Zygodact yet, but it was such a thorough 
coverage of the issue that in my memory it was recorded as support for it 
:))

> I've considered adding trial date tracking to Zygodact, but I have mixed 
> feelings about it. There are some reasons it probably should not be 
> implemented, and should be left to the software author instead.

Yes, there are a variety of schemes for trials, and not all of them are 
time-limited. Some publishers offer a limited number of program launches 
before a trial ends, instead of a specific timeframe, for example.

Since Zygodact generates the activation codes, I think it would be a handy, 
optional feature to bake an encoded expiry date into trial codes, ala 
Revolution trials. The developer can't really customize that aspect of the 
system, right? Hm, maybe if they appended an encoded date before/after/into 
the code generated by Zygodact?

Anyway, codes with embedded expiry dates is probably a more foolproof way to 
ensure people don't abuse trials. A weakness of the hidden stack/file 
approach is that a user can simply find that file and delete it to 
reactivate a trial. This way, they have to request a new key to keep a trial 
going. Not perfect, but you could at least see when emails keep coming in 
from the same IP address, mail server, etc. (Without the kind of "phone 
home" activation most users find offensive, you can't really do anything 
about determined trial abusers.)

- Bill

p.s.: congrats on a great new revSelect product! 





From wjm at wjm.org  Tue Dec 30 05:31:47 2008
From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 05:31:47 -0500
Subject: Zlib decompression - Any ideas?
References: <C57BE995.18763%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <gjctaj$u2a$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hi Ken,

> Any ideas on how I can decompress these files with Rev?

Ok, stupid question but have you tried the revZip* functions with these 
files?

Also, let me point you to a great utility, 7-zip, which has handled just 
about every archive I've thrown at it:

http://www.7-zip.org/download.html

(Scroll down for Mac OS X versions)

Do these files have proprietary info in them, or can you link an example we 
can try to decompress?

- Bill 





From bvlahos at mac.com  Tue Dec 30 09:59:57 2008
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 06:59:57 -0800
Subject: Date stamp a stack
In-Reply-To: <gjcc88$r04$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <48A6FF95-8011-47B9-A710-2ABFAC35FE3A@mac.com>
	<22C4DB44-ABD4-4051-8DC5-21724D8B28AA@ezpzapps.com>
	<23C9AE7D-80EE-46DE-BEBB-9B80F4A367E5@mac.com>
	<3983B844-F223-432D-B344-EF418F16489C@futilism.com>
	<EB272BB3-F3B4-453C-8F80-BCAE25E37DB7@mac.com>
	<gjcc88$r04$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <DFF8B221-1A42-4586-A89F-82937DDE57D8@mac.com>

I've asked her about Zygodact which looks to be a fantastic product.  
Unfortunately, for me it won't work for me as I want the application  
to be portable and her product ties the registration to the specific  
computer.

Bill Vlahos

On Dec 29, 2008, at 9:40 PM, Bill Marriott wrote:

> Bill,
>
>> Sure. It is for licensing. I was thinking that this would be a good
>> method for a limited time trial of my software. The document stack   
>> would
>> contain the user's data and the program would check the creation   
>> date of
>> the data stack for the trail period. Once the user paid for  the  
>> software
>> it would no longer care what the creation date was.
>
> RevSelect just released Zygodact, which does this exact thing:
>
> http://www.runrev.com/products/related-software/zygodact/
>
> ...and it's part of the megabundle, too:
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Dec 30 11:36:43 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 10:36:43 -0600
Subject: Date stamp a stack
In-Reply-To: <gjckel$a65$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <48A6FF95-8011-47B9-A710-2ABFAC35FE3A@mac.com><22C4DB44-ABD4-4051-8DC5-21724D8B28AA@ezpzapps.com><23C9AE7D-80EE-46DE-BEBB-9B80F4A367E5@mac.com><3983B844-F223-432D-B344-EF418F16489C@futilism.com><EB272BB3-F3B4-453C-8F80-BCAE25E37DB7@mac.com>	<gjcc88$r04$1@ger.gmane.org><gjcdb8$sp9$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4959BD4D.1010103@hyperactivesw.com>
	<gjckel$a65$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <495A4E1B.9090407@hyperactivesw.com>

Bill Marriott wrote:
> But perhaps you're a little modest.

I've been accused of that before. :)

> Yes, there are a variety of schemes for trials, and not all of them are 
> time-limited. Some publishers offer a limited number of program launches 
> before a trial ends, instead of a specific timeframe, for example.

Right, everyone's needs will be different. My primary concern is that 
whatever method Zygodact might use, if it is cracked, then everyone who 
has integrated Zygodact into their work will be affected if word gets 
out. So I'm thinking it would be better if software authors use whatever 
method they prefer to track trial dates, and the more varied, the better.

Zygodact's internal registration scheme is unique for each user copy, so 
it doesn't matter if "word gets out" on that aspect. Even if someone 
discovers how it's done, it would be very difficult to decrypt that 
particular copy's hash scheme.

> 
> Since Zygodact generates the activation codes, I think it would be a handy, 
> optional feature to bake an encoded expiry date into trial codes, ala 
> Revolution trials. The developer can't really customize that aspect of the 
> system, right? Hm, maybe if they appended an encoded date before/after/into 
> the code generated by Zygodact?
> 
> Anyway, codes with embedded expiry dates is probably a more foolproof way to 
> ensure people don't abuse trials. A weakness of the hidden stack/file 
> approach is that a user can simply find that file and delete it to 
> reactivate a trial.

That's the problem. I've written other client registration schemes with 
embedded expiration dates and they work fine, but we kept the user 
database on a server and the app had to "call home" to check its own 
validity. TeachMac is one example that uses Zygodact's algorithm, but 
since it is a fully online training system, contacting a server is a 
normal part of its activity. But most people don't want their software 
to require online access (and I personally don't like it at all.) 
Zygodact does return data to the scripts that will allow authors to use 
the server method if they want to, but I leave that up to the author.

> This way, they have to request a new key to keep a trial 
> going. Not perfect, but you could at least see when emails keep coming in 
> from the same IP address, mail server, etc. (Without the kind of "phone 
> home" activation most users find offensive, you can't really do anything 
> about determined trial abusers.)

I'm thinking about this about for a future update, among other features. 
But again, the problem is in using a method that would affect all 
Zygodact users if it were discovered.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Dec 30 11:42:22 2008
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 10:42:22 -0600
Subject: Date stamp a stack
In-Reply-To: <DFF8B221-1A42-4586-A89F-82937DDE57D8@mac.com>
References: <48A6FF95-8011-47B9-A710-2ABFAC35FE3A@mac.com>	<22C4DB44-ABD4-4051-8DC5-21724D8B28AA@ezpzapps.com>	<23C9AE7D-80EE-46DE-BEBB-9B80F4A367E5@mac.com>	<3983B844-F223-432D-B344-EF418F16489C@futilism.com>	<EB272BB3-F3B4-453C-8F80-BCAE25E37DB7@mac.com>	<gjcc88$r04$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<DFF8B221-1A42-4586-A89F-82937DDE57D8@mac.com>
Message-ID: <495A4F6E.5080504@hyperactivesw.com>

Bill Vlahos wrote:
> I've asked her about Zygodact which looks to be a fantastic product. 
> Unfortunately, for me it won't work for me as I want the application to 
> be portable and her product ties the registration to the specific computer.

True. Unfortunately, without that, it would be dead-simple to move files 
to another machine or email them to anyone else, bypassing registration. 
Of course, there's not much anyone can do if an end-user decides to 
share their name and serial key.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From wildelec at bossig.com  Tue Dec 30 12:19:27 2008
From: wildelec at bossig.com (Wilde Electric)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 09:19:27 -0800
Subject: Does Revolution Allow use of Sqlite VIEWS
Message-ID: <5caca0ef0812300919l3a9384fci341b2e471283f950@mail.gmail.com>

I am in need of knowing if Revolution supports Sqlite VIEWS.

I am using the revDataFormQuery to return DB information

I can do a Select * From (view name) and that is it.

If I try to add a WHERE statement or an ORDER BY statement I get the
revdberr (SQL or database error)

If I write the code to assemble SQL that accesses the tables directly every
thing works fine.

If I access my generated SQL via a variable and put it into another DB front
end my generated SQL works properly.

I would like to save a lot of extra code time.

Please Advise,

David J. Lamp


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Dec 30 12:53:57 2008
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:53:57 +0100
Subject: Backup sort of thing?
In-Reply-To: <b016f13e0812291310t4020b465yca0e57473449263e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b016f13e0812291310t4020b465yca0e57473449263e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5CAF15FF-5213-43DC-9A32-9659B0515CC4@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonsoir William,

Le 29 d?c. 08 ? 22:10, William de Smet a ?crit :

> There used to be a thread about saving .rev files as .txt files.

I am afraid you are confused:
Stacks files contain binary data then it does not appear possible to  
save them as text files that are not able to keep binaries but ASCII  
text only.

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------




From williamdesmet at gmail.com  Tue Dec 30 12:58:08 2008
From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:58:08 +0100
Subject: Backup sort of thing?
In-Reply-To: <5CAF15FF-5213-43DC-9A32-9659B0515CC4@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <b016f13e0812291310t4020b465yca0e57473449263e@mail.gmail.com>
	<5CAF15FF-5213-43DC-9A32-9659B0515CC4@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <b016f13e0812300958k1e708f3do9536905f1323a35@mail.gmail.com>

Bonsoir Eric,
I just found what I meant. Richmond got a stack TEXTIFIER . It is no longer
in his space on REV so I contacted him offlist.
Thanks for your reply.

Have a happy new year!

Greetings,

William

2008/12/30 Eric Chatonet <eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com>

> Bonsoir William,
>
> Le 29 d?c. 08 ? 22:10, William de Smet a ?crit :
>
>  There used to be a thread about saving .rev files as .txt files.
>>
>
> I am afraid you are confused:
> Stacks files contain binary data then it does not appear possible to save
> them as text files that are not able to keep binaries but ASCII text only.
>
> Best regards from Paris,
> Eric Chatonet.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Dec 30 13:02:20 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 10:02:20 -0800
Subject: Backup sort of thing?
Message-ID: <495A622C.9000607@fourthworld.com>

William de Smet wrote:
> There used to be a thread about saving .rev files as .txt files.
> I don't know whether it was a backup-sort-of-thing anymore but is there
> anyone out there who knows what I am talking about?
> I couldn't find it on the list.

We could probably help find a solution fresh.

What would you like to do?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From williamdesmet at gmail.com  Tue Dec 30 13:18:01 2008
From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 19:18:01 +0100
Subject: Backup sort of thing?
In-Reply-To: <495A622C.9000607@fourthworld.com>
References: <495A622C.9000607@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <b016f13e0812301018t6c0095f8s92b487e4213f072e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Richard,
I made an App in which customers and clothes are stored (all on their own
card).
I wanted a way to backup the 'store' in TXT files but today I decided to
backup the whole stack on closing the App.
It is primarily needed as backup in case the 'store' gets corrupted.

Any ideas are welcome!

Greetings,

William


2008/12/30 Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>

> William de Smet wrote:
>
>> There used to be a thread about saving .rev files as .txt files.
>> I don't know whether it was a backup-sort-of-thing anymore but is there
>> anyone out there who knows what I am talking about?
>> I couldn't find it on the list.
>>
>
> We could probably help find a solution fresh.
>
> What would you like to do?
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World
>  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From martyknapp at comcast.net  Tue Dec 30 13:49:03 2008
From: martyknapp at comcast.net (Marty Knapp)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 10:49:03 -0800
Subject: Backup sort of thing?
In-Reply-To: <b016f13e0812301018t6c0095f8s92b487e4213f072e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <495A622C.9000607@fourthworld.com>
	<b016f13e0812301018t6c0095f8s92b487e4213f072e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <495A6D1F.7000007@comcast.net>

I use Chipp's AltArchive - it's a great little plugin for making 
incremental backups.

<www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginDownload/Downloads.htm>

Marty Knapp
> Hi Richard,
> I made an App in which customers and clothes are stored (all on their own
> card).
> I wanted a way to backup the 'store' in TXT files but today I decided to
> backup the whole stack on closing the App.
> It is primarily needed as backup in case the 'store' gets corrupted.
>
> Any ideas are welcome!
>
> Greetings,
>
> William



From userev at canelasoftware.com  Tue Dec 30 13:49:54 2008
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 10:49:54 -0800
Subject: RevBrowser Doesn't Like Backdrop?
In-Reply-To: <C570B40B.3E549%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <C570B40B.3E549%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <2AAC9BA5-D7AD-4A72-85A6-D9AA6EB5FCA0@canelasoftware.com>

Hi Scott,

I can confirm this problem.  I ended up creating a black background  
stack and used that to cover the desktop.  That will do the job.

-Mark


On Dec 19, 2008, at 2:14 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Can anyone confirm that RevBrowser doesn't render properly on OS X  
> when a
> backdrop is present?  (Rev 3.0)
>
> I have a 1000x700 browser instance on a card running a Flash  
> animation which
> runs fine.  If I apply a backdrop while running the stack and drag  
> the stack
> even the slightest bit, the browser instance seems to disappear.  If I
> remove the backdrop (none), the browser reappears and the Flash  
> animation
> continues to run as expected.  I've noticed that switching to the  
> Finder
> while a backdrop is active will sometimes cause the browser to  
> render in the
> backdrop window!
>
> What gives?
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Dec 30 13:57:51 2008
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 10:57:51 -0800
Subject: RevBrowser Doesn't Like Backdrop?
In-Reply-To: <2AAC9BA5-D7AD-4A72-85A6-D9AA6EB5FCA0@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <C57FAF2F.3E7DA%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Mark Talluto wrote:

> I can confirm this problem.  I ended up creating a black background
> stack and used that to cover the desktop.  That will do the job.

Thanks Mark -- how did you get the background stack to stay behind all other
stacks?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Dec 30 14:01:55 2008
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 11:01:55 -0800
Subject: Backup sort of thing?
Message-ID: <495A7023.9060502@fourthworld.com>

William de Smet wrote:
> I made an App in which customers and clothes are stored (all on their own
> card).
> I wanted a way to backup the 'store' in TXT files but today I decided to
> backup the whole stack on closing the App.
> It is primarily needed as backup in case the 'store' gets corrupted.
> 
> Any ideas are welcome!

Sounds like you have a good plan.  Backing up the stack file is probably 
all you need, given how extremely rare file corruption is with Rev.

In fact, in the event that corruption should occur, here's a tip:

When saving a stack file with the "save" command, the Rev engine 
automatically makes a temporary backup copy, with the same name of the 
stack file preceded with a tilde (e.g., "~MyStack.rev"), which it 
deletes after the new file has been written and check-summed.

So if the power cuts off or something else weird happens that results in 
an incomplete save, just look for the tilde file and you'll at least 
have everything you had since your last completed save.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com


From userev at canelasoftware.com  Tue Dec 30 14:19:13 2008
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 11:19:13 -0800
Subject: RevBrowser Doesn't Like Backdrop?
In-Reply-To: <C57FAF2F.3E7DA%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <C57FAF2F.3E7DA%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <4A9C8E94-583A-4034-8E92-346D4E291A84@canelasoftware.com>


On Dec 30, 2008, at 10:57 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, Mark Talluto wrote:
>
>> I can confirm this problem.  I ended up creating a black background
>> stack and used that to cover the desktop.  That will do the job.
>
> Thanks Mark -- how did you get the background stack to stay behind  
> all other
> stacks?


Hi Scott,

Brief history.  I wanted to play animations that were in the flv  
format.  They were not interactive in any way.  It was just want the  
client had provided us.  We could not get revBrowser to accept any  
messages like mouse clicks or rawKeyDowns...  So we ended up making a  
stack that floated over the browser stack to accept mouse clicks.  We  
used a third party flv player to play the content in revBrowser and  
this player gave us control over the sizing of the videos to be played  
plus a variety of other things.

In short, we ended up ditching the flvs and converted the content over  
to QT movies.  This provided many benefits (full control and use of  
Trevor's QT external).  I had to look up the handler that set this all  
up and it turns out we made the stack that held the browser full  
screen.  We then used the third party player to control the dimensions  
of the flash player.  Here is the relevant code.  If you have any  
questions, please let me know.

--> PATIENT EDUCATION
on startBrowser pChosenAnimation
      global gBrowserId, gTest, gInternetStatus, gPrefs,  
gDecryptedAnimation
      global gMiniDisplay, gMMDisplayNum

      put empty into gDecryptedAnimation

      --SIZE AND PLACE THE PATIENT EDUCATION STACK
      put monitorPlacement("Patient Education") into theResult
      put line 1 of theResult into tVres
      put line 2 of theResult into tHres
      put line 3 of theResult into tScreenLoc
      put line 4 of theResult into tRect

      --CREATE BACKGROUND FOR BROWSER
      hide menubar
      lock screen
      create stack "browser"
      set the resizable of stack "browser" to false
      set the decorations of stack "browser" to empty
      set the destroystack of stack "browser" to true
      set the rect of stack "browser" to tRect
      set the backgroundcolor of card 1 of stack "browser" to 0,0,0

      --CREATE STACK TO FLOAT ON TOP OF WEB BROWSER
      --TO RECEIVE INPUT FROM USER
      create stack "browser floater"
      set the resizable of stack "browser floater" to false
      set the decorations of stack "browser floater" to empty
      set the destroystack of stack "browser floater" to true
      set the rect of stack "browser floater" to tRect
      set the defaultstack to "browser floater"
      set the blendlevel of stack "browser floater" to 94
      unlock screen

      decryptAnimation pChosenAnimation

      put empty into tLocalAnimation
      put "file://" before tLocalAnimation
      put gDecryptedAnimation after tLocalAnimation
      replace " " with "%20" in tLocalAnimation
      put tLocalAnimation into gDecryptedAnimation

      --SETUP THE HTML CODE TO MANAGE THE EMBEDED FLV PLAYER
      setupHTML gDecryptedAnimation,tHres,tVres

      put (gPrefs & "mediaplayer/PatientEd.html") into tHTML
      put "file://" before tHTML
      replace " " with "%20" in tHTML
      put revBrowserOpen(the windowid of stack "browser", tHTML) into  
gBrowserId

      if gBrowserId is not an integer then
           answer "Failed to open browser"
      end if

      --SIZE BROWSER
      revBrowserSet gBrowserId, "rect", (0,0,the width of stack  
"browser",the height of stack "browser")
      unlock screen

      --REMOVE CHARTS FRONTSCRIPT
      removeFrontScript
      removeGodFrontScript

      put "patient education" into gTest

      --SET UP THE FRONTSCRIPT TO MANAGE PATIENT EDUCATION
      insertFrontScript

      set the vis of stack "media center" to false
      toplevel stack "browser"
      toplevel stack "browser floater"

      --MOVE THE MOUSE OUT OF THE WAY
      set the itemdel to ","
      put the screenrect into temp
      set the screenmouseloc to (item 3 of temp),(item 4 of temp)
end startBrowser


From shoreagent at gmail.com  Tue Dec 30 14:27:31 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 15:27:31 -0400
Subject: how to set the background color of a tab field
Message-ID: <459b22a90812301127h1b5387f3waac834e465f4e492@mail.gmail.com>

Making tab fields that are pretty is harder than I thought. The tab menu has
a nice pretty rounded corner background but if you try to set the background
color of it that color has square corners. Since RunRev knows how to make
the nice rounded background in the first place why isn't it possible (or is
it?) to color just that part?
--Thanks --


From wjm at wjm.org  Tue Dec 30 14:43:34 2008
From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 14:43:34 -0500
Subject: how to set the background color of a tab field
References: <459b22a90812301127h1b5387f3waac834e465f4e492@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <gjdtl5$uvo$1@ger.gmane.org>

William,

> Since RunRev knows how to make
> the nice rounded background in the first place why isn't it possible (or 
> is
> it?) to color just that part?

Because Tabs are special gadgets designed to take on the native appearance 
of the host operating system. They'll look very different on Mac OS X, for 
example. Best thing to do is to "roll your own" in this instance.

- Bill 





From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Tue Dec 30 16:11:19 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 13:11:19 -0800
Subject: how to set the background color of a tab field
In-Reply-To: <459b22a90812301127h1b5387f3waac834e465f4e492@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812301127h1b5387f3waac834e465f4e492@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e5e009d70812301311v7424e011v179fc6cc7eefdbce@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, that is a problems with pre-made tabs. I just usually use the provided
bg.

Two methods come to mind that I use:

1.   Close up the built in tab panel "backdrop" with its shadows, etc to
just below the buttons and close the width, and make up your own backdrop
for the control with a roundrect graphic object behind the tabbed control.
There will be a little 'artifact' going through the buttons but it could be
incorporated into the look, as long as you don't try to change the bgcolor.

2. You can easily build your own tabs into custom controls.

start with radio buttons (their logic is special )
Choose to show the name or not in each buttons' properties.
group them together.
set the group's tabgroupbehavior to true
the buttons will switch one and only one at a time
create artwork for the icon states you want "icon, hilited icon, disabled
icon,etc. including 'dummy buttons for end caps that trap mouseups.

menupick and menuhistory are going to have to be worked around.

GETTING THE CURRENT SELECTED BTN
group script event:

local tHistory
on  mouseUP
    put the hilitedbutton of me  into tHistory --(me = the radio group)

switch tHistory
case 1

-- do something
break
case 2
-- do something
break

end switch

end mouseUP

SETTING BTN BY SCRIPT

set the hilitedbutton of group id 1009 to 1


be sure to layer the buttons toward the user to adjust for btn overlap

experimentation is needed between artwork and code to get it right. I
suggest a layer tool like Chipps AltLayerTools or Jerry's VAB to avoid hair
loss.


Advantages: make it look like you want, any images. New images replace stock
radio button graphic.  Individual tooltips are possible (stock tabs have
only one per state), background layers can be placed as needed


Disadvantages:   Harder to add new tabs, faked menupick and history - these
could be enabled using setprop and getprop.


Ken Ray is my inspiration for even attempting custom controls - he's the
master - at one Revcon he demonstrated making a tabbed menu and there was a
stack available at the conference, however I don't know if it's online
anywhere. Very clever, original ideas.  Perhaps he could tell us if its
available, but it's not the same without Ken talking over it!


Eric Chatonet has a tutorial on using tabbed menus. You've probably seen it.

On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 11:27 AM, william humphrey <shoreagent at gmail.com>wrote:

> Making tab fields that are pretty is harder than I thought. The tab menu
> has
> a nice pretty rounded corner background but if you try to set the
> background
> color of it that color has square corners. Since RunRev knows how to make
> the nice rounded background in the first place why isn't it possible (or is
> it?) to color just that part?
> --Thanks --
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
Stephen Barncard
-------------------------
San Francisco


From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com  Tue Dec 30 16:16:53 2008
From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 13:16:53 -0800
Subject: how to set the background color of a tab field
In-Reply-To: <e5e009d70812301311v7424e011v179fc6cc7eefdbce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812301127h1b5387f3waac834e465f4e492@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5e009d70812301311v7424e011v179fc6cc7eefdbce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e5e009d70812301316k1c75f682pb444efdca11e5b2f@mail.gmail.com>

That should be "artwork and text properties"- Hide quoted text -


On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 1:11 PM, stephen barncard<
stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com> wrote:

> experimentation is needed between artwork and code to get it right.


-- 
Stephen Barncard
-------------------------
San Francisco


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Dec 30 17:33:29 2008
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:33:29 -0600
Subject: Zlib decompression - Any ideas?
In-Reply-To: <F722BDA5-7642-44DF-A362-746C8DBFF951@qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <C57FFDD9.18AB6%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 12/29/08 6:09 PM, "Brian Yennie" <briany at qldlearning.com> wrote:
> Unfortunately it sounds like you are dealing with a Windows "zip"
> archive which is different from a "gzip" encoded archive. See this
> post for a nutshell explanation:
> http://aplawrence.com/Bofcusm/2615.html
> 
> In short, they are related but not interoperable. You will probably
> have to tap into an actual "zip" library if these files have been
> compressed using a different algorithm than gzip.
> 
> With that said, there should be command-line "zip" utilities for every
> OS, so you might still be able to include those and use shell() calls.

No, that doesn't seem to work either, none of the compression/decompression
utilities seem to be able to identify that it is a compressed file.


On 12/29/08 6:10 PM, "Mark Smith" <lists at futilism.com> wrote:
> One last idea - what does the data actually look like? If you examine
> the files and find that the first n bytes are the same in each one,
> it may be possible to simply strip off that n bytes and pass the rest
> to 'decompress'...

Just tried that, and 7zip as well... no go. :-(

> ps. I suppose it might be an idea to ask about the format of
> 'TCompressedstreams' (or whatever it was) in a Delphi forum.

I *think* I found a VB DLL I can use to decompress it... I'll post back If
it doesn't work...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/




From shoreagent at gmail.com  Tue Dec 30 19:50:16 2008
From: shoreagent at gmail.com (william humphrey)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 20:50:16 -0400
Subject: how to set the background color of a tab field
In-Reply-To: <e5e009d70812301316k1c75f682pb444efdca11e5b2f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <459b22a90812301127h1b5387f3waac834e465f4e492@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5e009d70812301311v7424e011v179fc6cc7eefdbce@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5e009d70812301316k1c75f682pb444efdca11e5b2f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <459b22a90812301650u34261e15xae57be2d63231ffa@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks. I'd forgotten that the tabs were meant to mimic the host operating
system. I really have to do some experimentation in Windows once in a
while...
I'd like to see that stack Ken Ray made. it would be nice to have something
to copy that was made by an appearances guru.


From david at architex.tv  Wed Dec 31 08:02:43 2008
From: david at architex.tv (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 13:02:43 +0000
Subject: Tree Arrays: putting XML in nested arrays
Message-ID: <c1c5836b0812310502x3e783d70tde5ebb6149ab9bc8@mail.gmail.com>

*Aim*
I am trying to define a generic data structure for storing tree structures
such as XML documents in the new nested arrays. I'd ike to use this
structure to store XML documents, and to store the tree data structures I
use for tree widgets. I'd like it to be simpler to use, understand and
debug, than the XML external.

NB - I remember a reference to some scripts that took XML and created the
new nested arrays. Anyone remember where it is - couldn't find it?

This post is a work in progress - brain dump. I hope it's useful. It helps
me structure my coding to write it up a bit first, and hopefully helps
others with similar issues.

*Key Words*
XML, tree widgets, nested data structures, design patterns, nested arrays,
regular epressions

*The Problem*
I'm working on a script to change one XML document into another - it is the
sort of thing XSLT <http://www.w3.org/TR/xslt> isused for.

So what would be a good way (design pattern) to convert one XML tree into
another in Revolution? Ideally this structure would work for XML - but also
more general tree structures where the node names could be complete lines of
text (and not simply single word xml node names), such as you might have in
an indented field.

There are all sorts of uses for this - lets take a recent example I've had
to do - translating rev htmltext to xHtml
basic<http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-basic/>:
which essentially involves taking elements like "

As an example of the sort of hacks Id like to avoid - here is a function
that I came up with for the xHtml basic
<http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-basic/>use case:

function html_RevToBoldSpan someHtml
>     put "(?miU)(<b>).*(</b>)" into someReg
>     -- put "(?mi)(<b>)[^\<]*(</b>)" into someReg
>     repeat
>         if matchchunk(someHtml, someReg, oTagStart, oTagEnd, cTagStart,
> cTagEnd) is true then
>             put "</span>" into char cTagStart to cTagEnd of someHtml
>             put "<span style='font-weight:bold'>" into char oTagStart to
> oTagEnd of someHtml
>         else
>             return someHtml
>         end if
>     end repeat
> end html_RevToBoldSpan
>

Tip - for those of you that have delved into regular expressions - this
script illustrates a new trick I've found with regular expressions - the use
of "U" to force no-greedy matching - (?miU) at the beginning of a regexp
causes the match to be multi-line (m), case insensitive (i) and non-greedy
(U).

This problem with scripts like this is that they cannot deal with true
nested formatting tags - for that you need to walk the tag tree - which is
what I'd like to do next:

Here were my initial thoughts on a simple start based on renaming XML nodes:

   1. Create an XML Tree for the original XML
   2. Create a new one for the transformed XML
   3. Write a recursive function to walk the tree - starting at the root
   node, getting its children and recursing
   4. Have the recursive function make a call to a translate function which
   uses an array to store the new tag names as the contents of nested keys -
   this could be an array or use the xml treeID

Somehow I need to include the general ability to use node attributes to
determine the new node name - so that:

<span style='font-weight:bold'>  => <b>
> <span style='color:#FF0000'>Red</span> => <font color="#FF0000">
>

I think what I'd really like to do all this with arrays rather than XML
treeIDs - that is:

   1. Create an XML Tree for the original XML and convert it to an array
   2. Write a recursive function to walk the array - starting at the root
   node, getting its children and recursing
   3. Have the recursive function make a call to a translate function which
   uses an array to store the new tag names as the contents of nested keys -
   building a new transformed array as it goes
   4. Create a new XML document from the transformed Array

What I need to decide is:

   - what sort of structure to use for this generic array, and not so
   critically
   - how to implement some sort of "plugin" to this design pattern so it is
   easy do a variety of transformations easily and intuitively.

*Nested Array Data Structure*
For the array structure I want to use the new nested arrays, and also to be
able to store attributes of nodes - something like:

node_1
>     node_1_1
>        node_1_1_1
>     node_1_2
>

Puttin an XML tree like that above into a nested array we could then do
things like:

   - put treeArray ["node_1"]["node_1_2"] into nodeContents
   - put treeArray ["node_1"]["node_1_2"]["attribute"]["style"] into
   nodeStyle

With the attributes it gets ugly, and would require filtering out the
"attribute" key, and naming it in some unique as possible way. So probably
better to store a separate attribute branch of the array?

   - put treeArray ["_tree"]["node_1"]["node_1_2"] into nodeContents
   - put treeArray ["_attribute"]["node_1"]["node_1_2"]["style"] into
   nodeStyle

*What about duplicate nodes?*
This is where I get a bit stuck, as there are still problems: for instance
at the moment the structure does not allow for duplicate nodes (which are
very common):

topNode
>     duplicateNode
>        nestedNode
>     duplicateNode
>        anotherNestedNode
>

The xml treeID notation uses references like:

topnode/duplicateNode[2]/anotherNestedNode

No idea what to do for that? Something like:

   - put treeArray
   ["tree"]["topNode"]["duplicateNode/2"]["anotherNestedNode"] into
   nodeContents ???
   - put treeArray
   ["tree"]["topNode"][1]["duplicateNode"][2]["anotherNestedNode"][1] into
   nodeContents

*What about callout functions?*
I've used these before for plugin searches - but it may be more intuitive to
simply copy and customise a handler for a specific purpose. On the other
hand recursive functions are never that intuitive to customise - so call
outs may be better?

And not sure what a callout function could look like?

on custom_TransformNode nodePath, orignialArray, @transFormed

end custom_TransformNode


From dalesvp at centurytel.net  Wed Dec 31 08:30:55 2008
From: dalesvp at centurytel.net (Dale Pond)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 06:30:55 -0700
Subject: HC to Rev conversion
In-Reply-To: <20081230080039.B452848A485@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20081230080039.B452848A485@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <E0596A1A-9441-4599-BACF-D100DE6D490D@centurytel.net>

Thank you Paul, Jerry, Joe and Bill for your comments, suggestions  
and critique of this conversion issue.
I find it all informative and thought provoking. I did look into SQL  
a few times and each time I was discouraged because of its lack of  
intuitive GUI and my pretty much non-existent programming skills. SQL  
is not an option for me and I do not think what I need from my data  
warrants going that route.

Over the past many months I have converted all 220+ stacks to Rev. A  
few scripts have been tweaked to work as required. What is left to do  
is do the FIND command upon a list of stacks and bring back the lines  
found. Perhaps if I continue to think this through one day I can get  
it working insofar as I need it to work. After all I do have all the  
elements (excepting a fine insight into Rev scripting) to make this  
happen.




From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Dec 31 08:39:46 2008
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim Sims)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 14:39:46 +0100
Subject: unicode from a rev cgi
Message-ID: <CA226E4D-190D-40B6-8FAA-955A638190AC@ezpzapps.com>

I have a rev cgi that saves text from a form in a web page.

I am testing the input of a language that requires unicode into that  
form
(the example I am using is the Greek word for small horse "?????  
?????").

The cgi saves that text to a text file from which I can retrieve it.

It looks like this after I get the url that contains it from the server:
%26%23956%3B%26%23953%3B%26%23954%3B%26%23961%3B%26%23972%3B+ 
%26%23940%3B%26%23955%3B%26%23959%3B%26%23947%3B%26%23959%3B


After  I urldecode the above, it looks like this:

&#956;&#953;&#954;&#961;&#972; &#940;&#955;&#959;&#947;&#959;

How would I change the unicode shown above back into the original
Greek text?

[those appear to be the correct chars - if I do this locally and then  
save those
Greek words with the htmlText, they are the same items (in addition to  
the
html formating tags, of course)]

sims

sims at ezpzapps.com
Skype:   sims.jim
iChat:   techietours
______________________
Opportunity by Design






From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Wed Dec 31 09:46:52 2008
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 09:46:52 -0500
Subject: Tree Arrays: putting XML in nested arrays
In-Reply-To: <c1c5836b0812310502x3e783d70tde5ebb6149ab9bc8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c1c5836b0812310502x3e783d70tde5ebb6149ab9bc8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <69D68D7C-F8A6-40C7-8737-20A3E467507E@mangomultimedia.com>

On Dec 31, 2008, at 8:02 AM, David Bovill wrote:

> *Aim*
> I am trying to define a generic data structure for storing tree  
> structures
> such as XML documents in the new nested arrays. I'd ike to use this
> structure to store XML documents, and to store the tree data  
> structures I
> use for tree widgets. I'd like it to be simpler to use, understand and
> debug, than the XML external.
>
> NB - I remember a reference to some scripts that took XML and  
> created the
> new nested arrays. Anyone remember where it is - couldn't find it?


Hi David,

I included some md array <-> xml routines in an article I wrote for  
revUp. I'm including the latest version of these handlers at the ned  
of the email. I updated them a few weeks ago.

The two primary functions are ConvertXMLToArray and ConvertXMLToArray.

The default array structure stores node values as the value of the  
node key in the array:

[root]
     [@attributes]
         [attr1]
     [node]
         [node] = value

If you have nodes where you need to store both attributes of a node as  
well as it's value then you can pass a flag to ConvertXMLToArray and  
values will be stored in a @value key:

[root]
     [@attributes]
         [attr1]
     [node]
         [node]
             [@attribtues]
                 [attr1]
             [@value] = value

Regards,

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Learning Systems
ScreenSteps: http://www.screensteps.com
Developer Resources: http://revolution.bluemangolearning.com


--
-- Converts an XML tree into a Revolution multi-dimensional array.
-- A nodes attributes will be stored as an array of it's "@attributes"  
key.
-- Node names will retain the sequence information (i.e. node[1],  
node[2], etc.).
-- This information is necessary to determine order that keys should  
be processed in. Example:
-- set the itemDelimiter to "["
-- put the keys of theArray into theKeys
-- sort theKeys numeric by the last item of each
--
-- pUseValueKey: The default value is false. In this case you get an  
array that has an @attributes
-- key for nodes that have attributes and either a) no value or b)  
only child nodes. Otherwise it contains the node contents.
-- Set to true if you want to store a nodes value in the '@value' key.  
This will allow a key to have
-- both attributes (in @attributes key) and a value (in @value key).
--
function ConvertXMLToArray pXML, pStoreEncodedAs, pUseValueKey
     local theArray,theResult,theRootNode,theTreeID
     local theXMLEncoding

     ## Create an XML tree from XML text
     put revCreateXMLTree(pXML, true, true, false) into theTreeID

     if theTreeID is an integer then
         ## Determine the encoding of the XML, default to UTF-8
         put matchtext(pXML, "<\?xml (.*)encoding=" & quote & "(.*)" &  
quote & "\?>", versionMatch, theXMLEncoding) into theResult
         if theXMLEncoding is empty then put "utf-8" into theXMLEncoding

         ## Now convert to array.
         ## The 1st dimension has one key which is the name of the  
root node.
         put revXMLRootNode(theTreeID) into theRootNode
         if theRootNode is not empty and not(theRootNode begins with  
"xmlerr,") then
             put ConvertXMLNodeToArray(theTreeID, theRootNode,  
theXMLEncoding, pStoreEncodedAs, pUseValueKey) into  
theArray[theRootNode]
         end if

         revDeleteXMLTree theTreeID
     end if

     return theArray
end ConvertXMLToArray


function ConvertXMLTreeToArray pXMLTree, pStoreEncodedAs, pUseValueKey
     return ConvertXMLToArray(revXMLText(pXMLTree), pStoreEncodedAs,  
pUseValueKey)
end ConvertXMLTreeToArray


--
-- Converts a multi-dimensional array to an XML tree.
-- The array should contain one key in the 1st dimension which
-- will become the root node. Attributes of a node should be stored
-- as an array in the @attributes key. Sequence information for multiple
-- nodes with the same name should be included in the node name using
-- brackets (i.e. node[1], node[2], node[3]).
-- Returns an xml tree id (integer) or an error message.
--
function ConvertArrayToXML pArray, pArrayEncoding, pStoreEncodedAs
     local theError,theRootNode,theXML,theXMLTree

     ## if pArrayEncoding is empty then current platform encoding is  
assumed
     if pStoreEncodedAs is empty then put "UTF-8" into pStoreEncodedAs

     ## Create XML for root node. Note that we take extra steps in  
order to support
     ## converting an array that only represents part of a tree rather  
than the entire tree.
     ## In this case there may be multiple nodes at the root level.
     put line 1 of the keys of pArray into theRootNode
     set the itemdelimiter to "["
     put "<" & item 1 of theRootNode & "/>" into theXML

     ## Create XML needed to create tree
     put format("<?xml version=\"1.0\" encoding=\"%s\"?>%s", \
             pStoreEncodedAs, theXML) into theXML
     put revCreateXMLTree(theXML, true, true, false) into theXMLTree

     if theXMLTree is an integer then
         ## Loop over all nodes at root level
         put false into stripMetaKeys
         put SortArrayKeysWithXMLOrdering(pArray, stripMetaKeys) into  
theNodes

         ## Create tree using helper function
         repeat for each line theNode in theNodes
             ConvertArrayDimensionToXML pArray[theNode], theXMLTree,  
slash & theNode, \
                     pArrayEncoding, pStoreEncodedAs
             put the result into theError

             if theError is not empty then exit repeat
         end repeat

         if theError is not empty then
             ## something went wrong, clean bad tree
             revDeleteXMLTree theXMLTree
         end if
     else
         put theXMLTree into theError
     end if

     if theError is not empty then
         return theError
     else
         return theXMLTree
     end if
end ConvertArrayToXML

--
-- Helper function for ConvertArrayToXML
-- Converts the multi-dimensional array pArray to nodes in pTreeID. 
-- Calls itself recursively.
-- Returns error message.
--
private command ConvertArrayDimensionToXML pArray, pTreeID, pNode,  
pArrayEncoding, pStoreEncodedAs
     local theError,theKey,theKeys,theNode

     ## A workaround for fact that Revolution does not return
     ## keys in the order we created them
     put false into stripMetaKeys
     put SortArrayKeysWithXMLOrdering(pArray, stripMetaKeys) into  
theNodes

     ## Arrays might have sequencing info in name
     ## (i.e. step[1], step[2], ... )
     set the itemdelimiter to "["

     repeat for each line theFullNode in theNodes
         put item 1 of theFullNode into theNode

         ## Look for attributes. These will be added as attributes to  
pNode.
         if theNode is "@attributes" or theNode is "@attr" then
             repeat for each line theKey in the keys of  
pArray[theFullNode]
                 revSetXMLAttribute pTreeID, pNode, theKey, \
                         EncodeString(pArray[theFullNode][theKey], \
                         pArrayEncoding, pStoreEncodedAs)
                 if the result begins with "xmlerr," then
                     put the result && "(setting attribute" && theKey  
&& "for node" && pNode & ")" into theError
                 end if

                 if theError is not empty then exit repeat
             end repeat

         else if theNode is "@value" then
             ## This XML tree is using complex structure. Node is the  
value of the parent node
             revPutIntoXMLNode pTreeID, pNode,  
EncodeString(pArray[theFullNode], pArrayEncoding, pStoreEncodedAs)
             if the result begins with "xmlerr," then
                 put the result && "(adding child node" && theNode &&  
"to node" && pNode & ")" into theError
             end if

         else
             if the keys of pArray[theFullNode] is not empty then
                 ## Node has children. Add node to XML tree then call  
self recursivly to create children nodes.
                 revAddXMLNode pTreeID, pNode, theNode, empty
                 if the result begins with "xmlerr," then
                     put the result && "(adding node" && theNode & ")"  
into theError
                 end if

                 if theError is empty then
                     ConvertArrayDimensionToXML pArray[theFullNode],  
pTreeID, pNode & slash & theFullNode, \
                             pArrayEncoding, pStoreEncodedAs
                     put the result into theError
                 end if
             else
                 ## Node has no children but possibly a value. Create  
node and add value (which may be empty).
                 revAddXMLNode pTreeID, pNode, theNode, \
                         EncodeString(pArray[theFullNode],  
pArrayEncoding, pStoreEncodedAs)
                 if the result begins with "xmlerr," then
                     put the result && "(adding child node" && theNode  
&& "to node" && pNode & ")" into theError
                 end if
             end if
         end if

         if theError is not empty then exit repeat
     end repeat

     return theError
end ConvertArrayDimensionToXML


--
-- Revolution array keys are never guaranteed to be in order you  
created 
-- them in so we must come up with some other way of maintaining 
-- proper sequence. For arrays representing XML, the XML syntax is 
-- used (i.e. node[1], node[2], etc.). This handler will sort keys  
that use 
-- this syntax for representing sequence.
--
function SortArrayKeysWithXMLOrdering pArray, pStripMetaKeys
     put pStripMetaKeys is not false into pStripMetaKeys

     put the keys of pArray into theKeys
     set the itemdelimiter to "["
     sort theKeys numeric by the last item of each -- 1], 2], 3], etc.

     if pStripMetaKeys then
         filter theKeys without "@*"
     end if

     return theKeys
end SortArrayKeysWithXMLOrdering


-- 
-- Helper function for ConvertXMLToArray.
-- Converts an XML node to a multi-dimensional array. 
-- Calls itself recursively.
--
private function ConvertXMLNodeToArray pTreeID, pNode,  
pXMLTreeEncoding, pStoreEncodedAs, pUseValueKey
     local theArrayA,theAttributes,theChildNode,theKey

     ## Look for attributes of the node. Store as array in  
"@attributes" key
     put revXMLAttributes(pTreeID, pNode, tab, cr) into theAttributes
     if theAttributes is not empty then
         put EncodeString(theAttributes, pXMLTreeEncoding,  
pStoreEncodedAs) into theAttributes
         split theAttributes by cr and tab -- create array
         put theAttributes into theArrayA["@attributes"]
     end if

     ## Look for children nodes.
     set the itemdelimiter to slash
     put revXMLFirstChild(pTreeID, pNode) into theChildNode
     if theChildNode is empty or theChildNode begins with "xmlerr," then
         put EncodeString(revXMLNodeContents(pTreeID, pNode),  
pXMLTreeEncoding, pStoreEncodedAs) into theValue
         if word 1 to -1 of theValue is empty and the keys of  
theArrayA is not empty then
             ## Empty node that has attributes
             return theArrayA
         else if pUseValueKey then
             ## Force value into @value
             put theValue into theArrayA["@value"]
             return theArrayA
         else
             ## Single Node with value: Return value. Attributes are  
ignored.
             return theValue
         end if
     else
         ## Child nodes were found. Recursively call self and store  
result in array.
         repeat while theChildNode is not empty and not (theChildNode  
begins with "xmlerr,")
             put the last item of theChildNode into theKey
             put ConvertXMLNodeToArray(pTreeID, theChildNode,  
pXMLTreeEncoding, pStoreEncodedAs, pUseValueKey) into theArrayA[theKey]
             put revXMLNextSibling(pTreeID, theChildNode) into  
theChildNode
         end repeat

         return theArrayA
     end if
end ConvertXMLNodeToArray

--
-- Helper function for converting the encoding of strings when  
converting to and from XML.
--
private function EncodeString pString, pInEncoding, pOutEncoding
     ## convert utf-8 to utf8 for uniencode/decode
     replace "-" with empty in pInEncoding
     replace "-" with empty in pOutEncoding

     if pInEncoding is not empty then
         -- if pOutEncoding is empty then pString will be converted to  
the current platform encoding
         return unidecode(uniencode(pString, pInEncoding), pOutEncoding)
     else
         if pOutEncoding is not empty then
             -- if pInEncoding is empty then pString is assumed to be  
in the current platform encoding
             return unidecode(uniencode(pString, pInEncoding),  
pOutEncoding)
         else
             return pString
         end if
     end if
end EncodeString


From baleareninsel at gmx.net  Wed Dec 31 11:42:27 2008
From: baleareninsel at gmx.net (Horst)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 08:42:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: opening cd/Stack so slow
Message-ID: <21233923.post@talk.nabble.com>


Hola a todo el mundo!

opening a card or a substack takes up to 2 minutes(!!!) inside the
Application Browser.

I'm using Win XP/2k and RR2.9.0

thank you for answering, best regards and good luck for 2009

Horst


-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/opening-cd-Stack-so-slow-tp21233923p21233923.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From wjm at wjm.org  Wed Dec 31 11:52:10 2008
From: wjm at wjm.org (Bill Marriott)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 11:52:10 -0500
Subject: HC to Rev conversion
References: <20081229180004.F172A489796@mail.runrev.com>
	<09CE1BC9-14F4-4BA3-9119-2E936642C753@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <gjg7vo$qv6$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hi Dale,

> I don't know what the idle does. Does Rev auto-compact when cards/ data 
> are deleted?

Rev is RAM-based; all your stacks and data are in memory and only saved to 
disk when you explicitly "save" the stack -- either with a command in a 
script, by using the Save command in the File menu, or when answering "Save" 
to the dialog which appears when you try to close a stack that has been 
modified. The organization of data in memory is handled transparently by 
Rev. Compacting is not necessary.

HyperCard is disk-based. All changes are more-or-less immediately written to 
disk. The changes are tacked on to the end of the file, because it would be 
very slow to rewrite the whole file with every modification. As a result, 
the structure can become quite disorganized over time. For example, you add 
a sentence to card 1. The original information for card 1 is stored at the 
beginning of the file, but your new sentence is at the end of the file. 
Compacting essentially re-writes the file in a tidy format where all related 
information is back together again.

The "idle" handler in HyperCard was a convenient way to handle housekeeping 
chores when nothing else was happening in the stack. However, it wasn't very 
efficient for a variety of reasons. It should be avoided in the Rev version 
of your system for two reasons. One, because the compacting is not needed 
(therefore the reason to have an idle handler at all is obviated); two, 
because Rev has more sophisticated ways (e.g.: send in time) of handling 
housekeeping tasks that should be handled periodically.

- Bill 





From david.bovill at gmail.com  Wed Dec 31 11:59:19 2008
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:59:19 +0000
Subject: Tree Arrays: putting XML in nested arrays
In-Reply-To: <69D68D7C-F8A6-40C7-8737-20A3E467507E@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <c1c5836b0812310502x3e783d70tde5ebb6149ab9bc8@mail.gmail.com>
	<69D68D7C-F8A6-40C7-8737-20A3E467507E@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <c1c5836b0812310859h38cddf51iba78989b46e6263d@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for these trevor - I've only just started so should save plenty of
time. One question about the data structure:

[root]
>    [@attributes]
>        [attr1]
>    [node]
>        [node] = value
>

This would mean that to extract the plain tree structure you would have to:

filter keys(someArray) without "@*"

Isn't this unnecessarily slow? What do you think about:

   - put treeArray ["_tree"]["root"]["node"][1] into nodeContents
   - put treeArray ["_attribute"]["root"]["node"][1]["style"] into nodeStyle
   - put keys(treeArray ["_tree"]["root"]) into level1

I'll start playing with your scripts now.... so maybe I'll have a few
questions later :) Out of interest what do you use them for?


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Wed Dec 31 12:04:17 2008
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 10:04:17 -0700
Subject: unicode from a rev cgi
In-Reply-To: <CA226E4D-190D-40B6-8FAA-955A638190AC@ezpzapps.com>
References: <CA226E4D-190D-40B6-8FAA-955A638190AC@ezpzapps.com>
Message-ID: <E7CC2701-A287-40DA-9F30-207C8FE973C4@byu.edu>

On Dec 31, 2008, at 6:39 AM, Jim Sims wrote:

> I have a rev cgi that saves text from a form in a web page.
>
> I am testing the input of a language that requires unicode into that
> form
> (the example I am using is the Greek word for small horse "?????
> ?????").
>
> The cgi saves that text to a text file from which I can retrieve it.
>
> It looks like this after I get the url that contains it from the  
> server:
> %26%23956%3B%26%23953%3B%26%23954%3B%26%23961%3B%26%23972%3B+
> %26%23940%3B%26%23955%3B%26%23959%3B%26%23947%3B%26%23959%3B
>
>
> After  I urldecode the above, it looks like this:
>
> &#956;&#953;&#954;&#961;&#972; &#940;&#955;&#959;&#947;&#959;
>
> How would I change the unicode shown above back into the original
> Greek text?
>
> [those appear to be the correct chars - if I do this locally and then
> save those
> Greek words with the htmlText, they are the same items (in addition to
> the
> html formating tags, of course)]

Sims,

If you get the text back as html entities like this you may have to  
add in the font tags in your scripting. It would probably be  
sufficient to note which tags are added when you do it locally and  
prepend/append them. The one trick is that the space character is not  
unicode, so you'd have to surround each word by font tags.  Here's  
what I came up with when I did a quick test (beware line wrapping):


  put "&#956;&#953;&#954;&#961;&#972; &#940;&#955;&#959;&#947;&#959;"  
into decodedText
    repeat for each word tWord in decodedText
       put "<font face=" &quote& "Geneva" &quote && "lang=" &quote&  
"en-UC" & quote & ">" before tWord
       put "</font>" after tWord
       put tWord & space after taggedText
    end repeat
    put taggedText--> yields: <font face="Geneva" lang="en- 
UC">&#956;&#953;&#954;&#961;&#972;</font> <font face="Geneva" lang="en- 
UC">&#940;&#955;&#959;&#947;&#959;</font>
    set the htmltext of fld 1 to taggedText

(Ugly, I know, but it works.)

As an alternative, would it be possible to encode the unicode text  
from the form as UTF-8 before saving it to the text file? At least it  
would be a bit cleaner that way.

HTH

Regards,

Devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Dec 31 12:16:43 2008
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim Sims)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:16:43 +0100
Subject: unicode from a rev cgi
In-Reply-To: <E7CC2701-A287-40DA-9F30-207C8FE973C4@byu.edu>
References: <CA226E4D-190D-40B6-8FAA-955A638190AC@ezpzapps.com>
	<E7CC2701-A287-40DA-9F30-207C8FE973C4@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <0B357AE8-CFB2-40CA-9E95-3F0F27978A7C@ezpzapps.com>


On Dec 31, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Devin Asay wrote:

> If you get the text back as html entities like this you may have to  
> add in the font tags in your scripting. It would probably be  
> sufficient to note which tags are added when you do it locally and  
> prepend/append them. The one trick is that the space character is  
> not unicode, so you'd have to surround each word by font tags.   
> Here's what I came up with when I did a quick test (beware line  
> wrapping):
>
>
> put "&#956;&#953;&#954;&#961;&#972; &#940;&#955;&#959;&#947;&#959;"  
> into decodedText
>   repeat for each word tWord in decodedText
>      put "<font face=" &quote& "Geneva" &quote && "lang=" &quote&  
> "en-UC" & quote & ">" before tWord
>      put "</font>" after tWord
>      put tWord & space after taggedText
>   end repeat
>   put taggedText--> yields: <font face="Geneva" lang="en- 
> UC">&#956;&#953;&#954;&#961;&#972;</font> <font face="Geneva"  
> lang="en-UC">&#940;&#955;&#959;&#947;&#959;</font>
>   set the htmltext of fld 1 to taggedText
>
> (Ugly, I know, but it works.)


Thanks for the reply Devin.

Yup, I've stumbled upon the adding font tags workaround/hack. That  
brings up a question
of what tags to add if the user is not speaking english. The tag  
"lang=en-UC"
implies to me that the "en" is for english. Perhaps that does not make  
any difference
and I can use that tag even if the user is Dutch? The display of the  
text should
be the same no matter the language of the viewer I suppose.


> As an alternative, would it be possible to encode the unicode text  
> from the form as UTF-8 before saving it to the text file? At least  
> it would be a bit cleaner that way.

Thanks for providing this direction to my research on the issue. Might
be a winner  ;-)

sims

sims at ezpzapps.com
Skype:   sims.jim
iChat:   techietours
______________________
Opportunity by Design






From devin_asay at byu.edu  Wed Dec 31 12:40:00 2008
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 10:40:00 -0700
Subject: unicode from a rev cgi
In-Reply-To: <0B357AE8-CFB2-40CA-9E95-3F0F27978A7C@ezpzapps.com>
References: <CA226E4D-190D-40B6-8FAA-955A638190AC@ezpzapps.com>
	<E7CC2701-A287-40DA-9F30-207C8FE973C4@byu.edu>
	<0B357AE8-CFB2-40CA-9E95-3F0F27978A7C@ezpzapps.com>
Message-ID: <5B883F9F-E53B-494B-AF6F-79D3269F16E8@byu.edu>


On Dec 31, 2008, at 10:16 AM, Jim Sims wrote:
>
> Thanks for the reply Devin.
>
> Yup, I've stumbled upon the adding font tags workaround/hack. That
> brings up a question
> of what tags to add if the user is not speaking english. The tag
> "lang=en-UC"
> implies to me that the "en" is for english. Perhaps that does not make
> any difference
> and I can use that tag even if the user is Dutch? The display of the
> text should
> be the same no matter the language of the viewer I suppose.

I think the "en-UC" stands for "english-Unicode", but that's just an  
educated guess. The second part of the code seems to be optional,  
because it will also work if you just use "el", which is the language  
name code for modern Greek. There's some good information here:

http://tlt.its.psu.edu/suggestions/international/web/tips/langtag.html
http://ftp.ics.uci.edu/pub/ietf/http/related/iso639.txt
http://userpage.chemie.fu-berlin.de/diverse/doc/ISO_3166.html

I find that getting the right combination is a matter of trial and  
error.
>
>
>
>> As an alternative, would it be possible to encode the unicode text
>> from the form as UTF-8 before saving it to the text file? At least
>> it would be a bit cleaner that way.
>
> Thanks for providing this direction to my research on the issue. Might
> be a winner  ;-)

It's cleaner to transport electronically, but I still use unicode html  
entities often because it's a little easier to control formatting  
elements like font and style that way.

Regards,

Devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University



From support at ahsomme.com  Wed Dec 31 13:08:16 2008
From: support at ahsomme.com (Paul Looney)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 10:08:16 -0800
Subject: HC to Rev conversion
In-Reply-To: <E0596A1A-9441-4599-BACF-D100DE6D490D@centurytel.net>
References: <20081230080039.B452848A485@mail.runrev.com>
	<E0596A1A-9441-4599-BACF-D100DE6D490D@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <E5B1F572-2D7C-49D7-B1FB-B3239394FDB6@ahsomme.com>

Good morning Dale,
Two days ago I wrote with bad news (you would not be able to convert  
your HC database to Rev and keep the stack metaphor). Today I may  
have better news.
First let me say I'm with you regarding SQL. I regard it as a near  
Medieval form of torture - the exact opposite of everything one loves  
about HC!
But I don't believe you will need SQL. You probably don't need Rev  
either (perhaps a dangerous statement on a "use-revolution" list).
I've looked at your website to get an idea of the data you are  
storing. And I've looked at the code in the HyperSearch stack you  
posted. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that, while  
the volume of your data is significant, you are not manipulating it  
extensively; there are no calculations (like one does with invoices)  
or date math (like calendars and contact lists). It exists to find  
files based on text strings they contains (or, in English: it helps  
you find and read a document and that contains the words you want).
When you created the HC stack system there was no fast, easy, way of  
doing this.
Today, if you are using a Mac (and, as a HyperCarder, you probably  
are), you can do your searches with Spotlight (OS X 10.4, "Tiger", or  
later). Spotlight indexes your entire HD (takes about an hour the  
first time, then transparently keeps the index uptodate). Enter any  
text in the little Spotlight window and it will give you a list of  
all the files that contain that text, click on any file in the list  
to open it.
You would not need to convert the files to HC, Rev, HTML, or anything  
else. Spotlight recognizes most text formats - even reads text on  
maps in PDF!
You could keep your current organization - except: what are now  
stacks would be folders (with the same name you now use for the  
stack) and the HC/Rev cards would simply be files in the folder.
Because you would not need to convert new information to HC/Rev/or  
anything else, this system would be very easy to maintain (just put  
new files in the proper folder). Because it is entirely text-based  
(instead of a proprietary format like an HC or Rev stack) it should  
be  durable - text will probably be readable by text readers for  
another century.
On a modern Mac you would surely find searches with Spotlight to be  
at least as fast as you are getting now.
I think Jan Schenkel has copyrighted this phrase but it fits and I'll  
use it anyway "Hope this helps."
Paul Looney
PS Looks like you are going to have a sunny afternoon.

On Dec 31, 2008, at 5:30 AM, Dale Pond wrote:

> Thank you Paul, Jerry, Joe and Bill for your comments, suggestions  
> and critique of this conversion issue.
> I find it all informative and thought provoking. I did look into  
> SQL a few times and each time I was discouraged because of its lack  
> of intuitive GUI and my pretty much non-existent programming  
> skills. SQL is not an option for me and I do not think what I need  
> from my data warrants going that route.
>
> Over the past many months I have converted all 220+ stacks to Rev.  
> A few scripts have been tweaked to work as required. What is left  
> to do is do the FIND command upon a list of stacks and bring back  
> the lines found. Perhaps if I continue to think this through one  
> day I can get it working insofar as I need it to work. After all I  
> do have all the elements (excepting a fine insight into Rev  
> scripting) to make this happen.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From david at vaudevillecourt.tv  Wed Dec 31 13:43:36 2008
From: david at vaudevillecourt.tv (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:43:36 +0000
Subject: revXmlAttribute fails with "xmlns"
Message-ID: <c1c5836b0812311043q23a57542q596be027c1a8060e@mail.gmail.com>

The "revXmlAttribute" amd "revXmlAttributes" functions fail to recognise an
"xmlns" attribute. Try this script in the message box:

put "<message type='chat' xmlns='jabber:client' id='abb4a'/>" into testXML
> put revCreateXMLTree(testXML, true, true, false) into treeID
> put revXMLAttributes(treeID, "message", tab, CR)
>
> Anyone know why - or a way around this? For now I am replacing " xmlns='"
with " xxmlns='" in the XML before processing which is an ugly hack.

And if so compelled see bug report and
vote<http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=7586>if you
can confirm it on your platform?


From david at dvglasgow.wanadoo.co.uk  Wed Dec 31 13:44:31 2008
From: david at dvglasgow.wanadoo.co.uk (David Glasgow)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:44:31 +0000
Subject: RevCopyFolder XP problem
In-Reply-To: <20081228180004.C2C42488ED6@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20081228180004.C2C42488ED6@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <701F557F-6D89-42BA-8937-31000DA95749@dvglasgow.wanadoo.co.uk>

Way back in October, Eric, Ken and others helped out with identifying  
special folders in XP and Vista, in which I could save shared and non  
shared data.  (Because the system I used in my app previously breaks  
under Vista).

Having finally decided on appropriate locations and file structures,  
I have started to script a routine which checks on the platform, then  
checks in each location for the expected folders, and copies them  
there if they are not present.

Debugging is a bit of a painful process on Windows, because I am  
using Studio on Mac and testing under Parallels (XP).  However, as  
far as I can tell, RevCopyFolder doesn't work as advertised on XP.   
In the Rev 2.0 language reference it states:

"The revCopyFolder command makes a copy of the entire folder,  
including all files, subfolders, and their contents. The folder  
remains in its original location and the copy is placed in the new  
location."

I only get the top level (i.e  foldertocopy) folder created in the  
new location, with none of its contents, be they files or folders.  I  
look at the result for each instance of RevCopyFolder after each  
partial successful copy, which gives me the numerical value '4'.

I know that RevCopyFolder seems to be very erratic on the Mac, but is  
my problem on Win recognised by others?  Is there an easy workaround?

Thanks

David Glasgow