Dependence on Programming Experts

Wed Jul 5 19:40:51 EDT 2006

Hi Greg,

You're right... but, the truth is I don't know of an easier programming 
language (or I'd probably be using it).

It seems there is an inescapable continuum between "ease of use" and 
"power" -- to use two inexact terms -- when it comes to computers. You can 
have an "appliance" that you just turn on and it "works" or you can have the 
hobby kit that you have to build from transistors, wire, and knobs on up. 
But it's rare that you can find both.

*Some* of the things you want are out there. A good example is progress 
bars. In the "olde days" of HyperCard we had to build them ourselves. In 
Revolution, there are built-in progress bars that mimic the operating 
system's standard look and feel. And recently, Scott Rossi introduced a 
package of really fancy "photo-realistic" progress bars that look like 
nothing ordinary.

Now, you don't need to know everything there is to know about transcript in 
order to use Rossi's gizmos. But it helps if you want to customize them.

Another good thing about Rev is that you can just do a few things at a time. 
You don't have to learn the whole thing at once. But yes... if you want to 
write a complete video game or alternative user interface you'll need to 
gain knowledge and experience. The good news: It's definitely possible to 
create those things using Revolution.

I have three super-thick (500+ pages) books on JavaScript. None of them make 
that language any easier, but at least I can find lots of examples and 
explanations. There aren't so many books about Revolution, but there are 
many good example stacks and resources.

I think you'll find that mastering programming is an endeavor that will help 
discipline your thinking in other areas of life. Programming works from the 
general to the specific. You take the vision in your head, translate it to 
processes and presentation, then break those down into component procedures. 
You analyze the procedures for things that can generalized and re-used. You 
optimize for speed and resource usage. You test and debug and correct your 
algorithms. No matter what the language, the skills needed for structuring 
and building a solution are the same.

Anyway, I do think there are things Rev could do -- little things that would 
make a big difference (and perhaps some big things than might not make any 
difference)... but in general it's the best blend of power and ease of use 
out there. I hope you'll persevere through the rough beginnings. The more 
you know the easier it is to understand.

"GregSmith" <brucegregory at earthlink.net> wrote in 
message news:5190992.post at talk.nabble.com...
>
> Dan & Malte:
>
> O.K., you asked for it.  First, though, let me explain my own personal
> dilemma.  I would have to agree with many of you out there, that there are
> limitations that come bundled with whatever single use tool you commit
> yourself to.  None ever provides everything you wish they did.  Though a
> product like Keynote does many  of the things I need, it doesn't do them 
> all
> and leaves me wishing and waiting for a time when it might.  Or might not.
> User requests for new features only go so far.  And moving a megaladon 
> like
> Apple could prove to be next to impossible.
>
> So, you're right.  Revolutioon offers an environment that seems very
> appealing from that point of view, alone.  Make something that does
> precisely what you want it to do, the way you want it to do it.  Expand 
> such
> a creation at any point in the future.  It does, indeed, seem limitless 
> with
> regard to creative possibilities.  So, yes, I'm sold on that aspect of the
> Revolution offering.
>
> But, English-like, or not, I just don't take to programming like ducks do 
> to
> water.  The very nature of performing all the teeny tiny little steps that
> you must perform to get even the most basic things done is an exercise in
> patience that may go beyond my capability to endure.  I wish it were not 
> so.
> I wish I were smarter and had the patience of Yoda.  Maybe, someday I'll
> attain to it, but, today, I lack.
>
> And, yet, still, I am not averse to trying.  I may.  But, what, with 
> regard
> to the available teachers and tutors?  Nearly all have been programming so
> long, that they forget how little the non-programmer understands.  You 
> guys
> and gals out here all speak with the same insider lingo.  You don't even
> know you are doing it, the terminology is so rooted and engraved upon your
> psyche.  You speak in abbreviations and acronyms as often and as
> unconsciously as the turtledove sings her song.  It saves time.  And I can
> understand why you need to save time,  observing how long it takes to 
> author
> applications in any language.  If you want US to learn you must have 
> mercy.
> Don't assume anything, with regard to our background or computer saviness.
> We are, with respect to the deep waters of programming, essentially 
> morons.
> But, even morons deserve some kindness and tenderness and longsuffering. 
> Do
> YOU have that?
>
> Understanding some of the phraseology of Transcript still doesn't equip a
> potential Revolution author with a general framework of how to proceed in
> any particular direction.  What if the application he envisions is not
> composed of standard application functionality, such as windows, pop-ups,
> roll-overs, drop down menus, fields dialogs and the like?  What if his 
> dream
> application is composed of visual elements that both need to look and 
> behave
> like something much different than the above mentioned items?  What if his
> imagined application contains functionality and visual appeal that combine
> the aesthetics, logic and interaction of a game, a database, a shopping
> system and a lego set?  How would this aspiring programmer even determine 
> if
> such an ambitious project were within his practical set of abilities?  How
> can he know?   Where would he begin, and most of all, where would he find
> the set of documents that would serve as his knowledgebase for his
> particular, specialized set of functions and goals.  It appears one would
> have to be operating at the genius level and beyond to cobble together 
> such
> a system from the vast library of GENERIC transcript actions and functions
> that are listed and available.
>
> Like all programming API's,  the Transcript listing is mainly a set of
> instructions telling the user, "what" each function is, (all in that
> wonderful programmer's lingo), only sometimes "what" it does, and almost
> never "why" it does what it does and "when" you would need to use it and 
> for
> what you would want to use it.  All of this leaves the novice still 
> flailing
> in the dark, not knowing where to turn next.  So, inevitably, he will have
> to post something like "Stupid newbee question" on a forum like this one,
> irritating the heck out of you experts out there.  See, this is where
> everyone that approaches an application like Revolution will eventually 
> end
> up.
>
> I have had this very same discussion over at the Unity forums, where one
> must master the foggy, poorly documented, illogical language called
> JavaScript, (script, my eye!), to make even the simplest, game-like
> behaviors occur.  And the experts can't help but think to themselves, 
> "what
> a moron," whenever I open my mouth with uninsightful questions. 
> Programming
> to them, at least at the time they read my ignorant questionings, has 
> become
> somewhat second nature, and they can't understand why it is so hard to
> understand.  . . .    Know-wuddi-mean?
>
> Greg Smith
>
>
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://www.nabble.com/Dependence-on-Programming-Experts-tf1893108.html#a5190992
> Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com.
>
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