Revolution "software" to black listed nations

Sivakatirswami katir at hindu.org
Tue Apr 11 01:16:02 EDT 2006


Aloha, James:

Thank you for the thoughtful response.  One other member of our team  
here who drafted the EULA for the Digital Edition of Hinduism Today

(see http://www.hinduismtoday.com/digital/  for the "product" in  
question")

Pointed out to me the same thing "Its in the Rev license, so whether  
or not the stacks might pass under US law, to comply with RunRev, we  
can't do it..." Something I glossed over years ago.

OK, seems it's as simple as removing those countries from the pull  
downlist on the web site and one is then "compliant" ... since we do  
not actually ship any physical product, that's the only mode of  
delivery there is... I can't imagine that one is supposed to start  
checking incoming GET requests for IPs in those nations... I doubt  
they have dial up ISP's in Bagdad at the moment.

Sivakatirswami


On Apr 09, 2006, at 5:04 AM, James Spencer wrote:

>
> On Apr 8, 2006, at 8:53 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote:
>
>> Has anyone studied out carefully the issue of shipping Rev stacks  
>> to countries on the US state department embargo list?  These being  
>> currently (found in many typical EULA's)
>>
>> "Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, Syria, military or  
>> police entities in South Africa, or any other country to which the  
>> United States has embargoed goods.
>>
>> Would there not be a difference between
>>
>> 1) the Rev IDE which give users tools to build software.
>> 2) a standalone which does not.
>>
>> in terms of the embargo? Where do we find the precise definition  
>> of "software" that should not be shipped to these countries?
>>
>> Could a Standalone be conceived of as a "product" of software,  
>> like a PDF is a Product of Acrobat, but not Acrobat itself. I mean  
>> I can't imagine Adobe is breaking laws when some North Korean  
>> downloads a PDF from the web. Similalry, I'm wondering, if somone  
>> downloads a standalone application built with Revolution if this  
>> is a violation of the embargo or not.
>
> Unlike kee, I am a lawyer but know nothing about security law,  
> ITAR, international law, or any other issue directly related to  
> this question other than what I quickly looked up at the State  
> Department web site so what I'm saying here is NOT legal advice.   
> If you are close enough to the edge to really have a question about  
> this, you are nuts if you don't go hire a real lawyer to check it out.
>
> kee has addressed the general issues and I am writing to make four  
> points:
>
> 1) ITAR and the other law I looked at this morning, doesn't play  
> games around whether the item or service is "software" or a  
> "product" of software.  It is generic and covers items and  
> information that can be used for military purposes.
>
> 2) Forget US law for a moment, your Revolution license prohibits  
> the distribution of "Created Software" to embargoed countries.   
> "Created Software" includes "stacks and files" created using  
> Revolution so again, it doesn't matter whether you try to call your  
> stacks a "product" of software or whether it is a standalone.  Note  
> that the license applies whether you are in the United States (and  
> therefore subject to US export restrictions) or not.
>
> 3) A PDF contains no executable code and in fact contains nothing  
> that would violate the embargo other than the information contained  
> in the PDF.  Thus the example of Acrobat as versus PDF's created  
> with Acrobat is not on point.  The same may or may not be true for  
> a Rev stack not compiled as a standalone but again, the license  
> nevertheless prohibits you exporting the stack to Iran.
>
> 4) In any case, if you export a prohibited item to an embargoed  
> country, say a PDF that shows how to build an atomic bomb, it is  
> you that has a problem if anyone does.  Adobe would not be breaking  
> the law assuming they have distributed Acrobat under the terms of  
> the G-DEST; you would.  Similarly, if you use Rev to create a stack  
> that controls an air defense system and sell it to the North Korean  
> Air Force, big brother will come looking for you, not Revolution,  
> not because Revolution is in Scotland and not subject to US law,  
> but because they aren't the one exporting to North Korea.
>
> Whether you are in the United States and are subject to the embargo  
> or are not in the US and thus are only subject to the Rev license,  
> the question becomes how much you have to do to comply.  I would  
> suggest that is going to depend on what your product is.  If you  
> have produced a stack that you are distributing as freeware and  
> which only contains pictures of yourself that you took with your  
> new iMac and it's built in camera, I would probably not pay any  
> attention at all other than to refuse to reply if I got an order  
> with a return address in P'yongyang.  If, on the other hand, you  
> have written a stack for using your iMac to shoot down US spy  
> satellites I probably would consult an attorney, regardless of how  
> I intended to distribute the stack.  In between, use your judgment.
>
> Spence
>
>
> James P. Spencer
> Rochester, MN
>
> jspencer78 at mac.com
>
> "Badges??  We don't need no stinkin badges!"
>
>
>
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