From chandapukiran at gmail.com  Sat Oct  1 01:47:26 2005
From: chandapukiran at gmail.com (chandapu kiran kumar)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 11:17:26 +0530
Subject: AltBrower= crash dummy?
In-Reply-To: <433E0177.8000502@chipp.com>
References: <BF63378B.2E7E8%JimAultWins@yahoo.com> <433E0177.8000502@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <dfa2c29e0509302247m379ea1fu6fe8f64879142ba9@mail.gmail.com>

*kiran kumar*

**

*Hello every body i am kiran kumar i am also tried with alt browser i and i
was found that if you have opened many windows , then if you want to *


 On 10/1/05, Chipp Walters <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:
>
> OOPS, that's the 'DEMO' version which was setup to run on Jaguar and
> uses the old version of altBrowser.bundle external. I'll get that fixed
> soon. The purchased altBrowser gives you access to the new/improved
> version and runs fine in 10.3.9 and greater.
>
> -Chipp
>
> Jim Ault wrote:
> > Yes, ( OSX 10.3.9 + 2.5.1 ) has the crash behavior with dbl-clk from
> Finder
> > as you described.
> > I get the Rev IDE running and drag the icon to the dock, 'over the Rev
> icon'
> > or start within Rev. On Win32, the dbl-clk works just fine.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From SupermanSlyr at aol.com  Sat Oct  1 05:49:40 2005
From: SupermanSlyr at aol.com (SupermanSlyr at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 05:49:40 EDT
Subject: Random Questions? 
Message-ID: <c.4e6f3c33.306fb5b4@aol.com>

I'm trying to make a testing program that inserts random questions into a  
field when the card is open. I was not sure exactly how to go about doing this.  
This is what I tried to do. I put a field on each card with a few names on 
it,  just to see if I had the random thing down. The I made the field invisible. 
I  tried to scripted the card to: 
 
On opencard
get random(item 1 of field "ranName") 
put it into field "Question" 
end opencard   
 
(I know I said the field has names in it. I  just wanted to see if I could 
get random text this way before I went nuts adding  long questions.)  
 
Also I'm still not 100% sure how (even if the above did work) to make  the 
question occupy more than just one line of text. I assume I'd have  to use 
"item" and maybe a chunk operation? Because I wasn't sure how  Revolution knows 
when an item begins, and when it ends. I just want to make  a simple testing 
program that doesn't always give the same questions. I  know the answer is 
probably very simple, and right under my nose again.  

Thank all of you very, very much! 


From tjframe at gmail.com  Sat Oct  1 07:37:06 2005
From: tjframe at gmail.com (TJ Frame)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 04:37:06 -0700
Subject: Random Questions?
In-Reply-To: <c.4e6f3c33.306fb5b4@aol.com>
References: <c.4e6f3c33.306fb5b4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7348a9e80510010437y752b2b1fi21d64f7cd62290e2@mail.gmail.com>

If I understand your question correctly, I think one way to do what you want
is:
  on opencard
put item ( random(the number of items of fld "ranName")) of fld "ranname"
into field "Question"
end opencard
 as for using items - by default Rev uses commas as item delimiters, but you
can set tah to anything you want.
 for example :
 put the itemdel into oldDelim -- stores old delimiter
set the itemdel to "^"
-- do stufff
 set the itemdel to oldDelim --- reverts to old delimiter

thus you can seperate your blocks of text with some strange character and
use that as the itemdelimiter and you should be good to go.
 - TJ
  On 10/1/05, SupermanSlyr at aol.com <SupermanSlyr at aol.com> wrote:
>
> I'm trying to make a testing program that inserts random questions into a
> field when the card is open. I was not sure exactly how to go about doing
> this.
> This is what I tried to do. I put a field on each card with a few names on
> it, just to see if I had the random thing down. The I made the field
> invisible.
> I tried to scripted the card to:
>
> On opencard
> get random(item 1 of field "ranName")
> put it into field "Question"
> end opencard
>
> (I know I said the field has names in it. I just wanted to see if I could
> get random text this way before I went nuts adding long questions.)
>
> Also I'm still not 100% sure how (even if the above did work) to make the
> question occupy more than just one line of text. I assume I'd have to use
> "item" and maybe a chunk operation? Because I wasn't sure how Revolution
> knows
> when an item begins, and when it ends. I just want to make a simple
> testing
> program that doesn't always give the same questions. I know the answer is
> probably very simple, and right under my nose again.
>
> Thank all of you very, very much!
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From davis.phil at comcast.net  Sat Oct  1 13:08:03 2005
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 10:08:03 -0700
Subject: Random Questions?
In-Reply-To: <c.4e6f3c33.306fb5b4@aol.com>
References: <c.4e6f3c33.306fb5b4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <433EC273.7040708@comcast.net>



SupermanSlyr at aol.com wrote:

>I'm trying to make a testing program that inserts random questions into a  
>field when the card is open. I was not sure exactly how to go about doing this.  
>This is what I tried to do. I put a field on each card with a few names on 
>it,  just to see if I had the random thing down. The I made the field invisible. 
>I  tried to scripted the card to: 
> 
>On opencard
>get random(item 1 of field "ranName") 
>put it into field "Question" 
>end opencard   
> 
>(I know I said the field has names in it. I  just wanted to see if I could 
>get random text this way before I went nuts adding  long questions.)  
> 
>Also I'm still not 100% sure how (even if the above did work) to make  the 
>question occupy more than just one line of text. I assume I'd have  to use 
>"item" and maybe a chunk operation? Because I wasn't sure how  Revolution knows 
>when an item begins, and when it ends. I just want to make  a simple testing 
>program that doesn't always give the same questions. I  know the answer is 
>probably very simple, and right under my nose again. 
>

You're right - it's easy.

If 'random' is confusing, you can do this instead to display long questions:

  put any line of fld "ranName" into fld "question"

In Rev fields, a "line" is a string of text ending with a CR. That means 
it can "soft wrap" in a field an still be used as a single line.

HTH -
Phil Davis



From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sat Oct  1 12:59:33 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 09:59:33 -0700
Subject: Focusable vs. Locked Text
In-Reply-To: <148.4d5d9f6c.306e826a@aol.com>
References: <148.4d5d9f6c.306e826a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <p0621020fbf646f96e422@[66.93.39.98]>

At 7:58 AM -0400 9/30/2005, AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
>Is there a difference between focusable and locked text in the basic
>properties of a field? If so what is that difference?


Focusable (the traversalOn property) means you can select in a field. 
Locked text (the lockText property) means the user can change the 
text.

In practice, there are three useful combinations:

1. traversalOn false, lockText true: a "locked-down" field. Use for 
labels, fixed information, etc.

2. traversalOn true, lockText false: an "open" field. Use for any 
field that the user has to enter text in.
3. traversalOn true, lockText true: a "selectable" field: text can be 
selected and copied but can't be changed. Use for a field that you 
don't want the user to change, but that they might want to copy text 
from.


I've never discovered a use for the fourth combination: traversalOn 
false, lockText false.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From davis.phil at comcast.net  Sat Oct  1 13:47:50 2005
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 10:47:50 -0700
Subject: Random Questions?
In-Reply-To: <433EC273.7040708@comcast.net>
References: <c.4e6f3c33.306fb5b4@aol.com> <433EC273.7040708@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <433ECBC6.6060804@comcast.net>

Hi again -

I just realized I may have answered what you weren't asking.  :o/

It's still easy! If you have questions that contain multiple 
CR-delimited lines, you can do this:

1) separate complete questions with a character that will never appear 
in the questions - like a pipe "|" or tilde "~".

2) put that special character between questions.

3) Refer to it this way in code:
     set the lineDelimiter to "~" -- or whatever the char is
     put any line of fld "questionList" into fld "question"

Thanks -
Phil

Phil Davis wrote:

>
>
> SupermanSlyr at aol.com wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to make a testing program that inserts random questions 
>> into a  field when the card is open. I was not sure exactly how to go 
>> about doing this.  This is what I tried to do. I put a field on each 
>> card with a few names on it,  just to see if I had the random thing 
>> down. The I made the field invisible. I  tried to scripted the card to:
>> On opencard
>> get random(item 1 of field "ranName") put it into field "Question" 
>> end opencard  
>> (I know I said the field has names in it. I  just wanted to see if I 
>> could get random text this way before I went nuts adding  long 
>> questions.) 
>> Also I'm still not 100% sure how (even if the above did work) to 
>> make  the question occupy more than just one line of text. I assume 
>> I'd have  to use "item" and maybe a chunk operation? Because I wasn't 
>> sure how  Revolution knows when an item begins, and when it ends. I 
>> just want to make  a simple testing program that doesn't always give 
>> the same questions. I  know the answer is probably very simple, and 
>> right under my nose again.
>
>
> You're right - it's easy.
>
> If 'random' is confusing, you can do this instead to display long 
> questions:
>
>  put any line of fld "ranName" into fld "question"
>
> In Rev fields, a "line" is a string of text ending with a CR. That 
> means it can "soft wrap" in a field an still be used as a single line.
>
> HTH -
> Phil Davis




From r.beynon at liv.ac.uk  Sat Oct  1 14:30:37 2005
From: r.beynon at liv.ac.uk (Rob Beynon)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 19:30:37 +0100
Subject: Drag and drop applications
Message-ID: <581095458.20051001193037@liv.ac.uk>


Dear All

I want to create a simple text file processor to convert one data
format to another. ideally, the user will drag and drop the file onto a
program icon, and it will then process the file and write the processed
file back to the same location, with a new name (extension).

is this even remotely possible with Revolution?

-- 
All best wishes,
Rob

(Created at 19:29 on 01/10/2005)


==============================================================
Prof. Rob Beynon                    |+44 151 794 4312 (voice)
Dept. Veterinary Preclinical        |+44 151 794 4243 (fax)
Sciences, University of Liverpool,
Crown Street, Liverpool L69 7ZJ     |mailto:r.beynon at liv.ac.uk
--------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.liv.ac.uk/pfg            |http://www.csiv.org
==============================================================



From mlange at lexicall.org  Sat Oct  1 15:48:50 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 20:48:50 +0100
Subject: Ontology manager, nifty palettes added to the education gallery
Message-ID: <D74B9FE5-3382-4DF6-8773-B5B39FC68A94@lexicall.org>

Dear all,

Added this week in the education gallery:

1. Ontology manager. Very similar to the tree view stack already  
available. The plus is that you can name the relationship between a  
node and its target. In effect, you are creating a textual  
representation of a flowchart graph (anyone to write a program to  
transform this representation into a SVG graph?). RDF and OWL import/ 
export should be added when I start to understand how the specs work  
(who said XML documents were supposed to be readable to both  
computers and humans?)

2. Collapsing Toolbar. The content has now been set to various  
plugins that were in the gallery (palette to ease or speed up object  
alignment, text formatting, object resizing, etc.). A new palette has  
been added that proposes a color palette.  Textual Explanations have  
also been added to help you understand how to best benefit from these  
different palettes.

Enjoy,
Marielle

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
------------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage:  http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Lexicall: http://lexicall.org
Revolution-education: http://revolution.lexicall.org





From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Oct  1 18:51:53 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 15:51:53 -0700
Subject: errorDialog
Message-ID: <9222419507.20051001155153@ahsoftware.net>

All-

Can someone clue me in about the use of errorDialog? My on errorDialog
handlers are never being triggered and I never see the errorDialog
message in the Message Viewer. I'd like to intercept the standard
error dialog, but can't quite figure out how.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From tominjapan at excite.com  Sat Oct  1 19:35:59 2005
From: tominjapan at excite.com (Thomas McCarthy)
Date: Sat,  1 Oct 2005 19:35:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: AltBrower= crash dummy? Mea Culpa!
Message-ID: <20051001233559.E7A8BBAAB@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com>


yes, it was very bad style to bring my complaint to this forum first. I apologize--the folks at Altuit have been helping me a lot on this issue.

I had searched the list archives for help with the bug and then just fired off a message without thinking. (note to self, "Think less")

tm

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!




From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sat Oct  1 23:29:16 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 20:29:16 -0700
Subject: Focusable vs. Locked Text
In-Reply-To: <p0621020fbf646f96e422@[66.93.39.98]>
References: <148.4d5d9f6c.306e826a@aol.com>
	<p0621020fbf646f96e422@[66.93.39.98]>
Message-ID: <p0621021abf6503d6b453@[66.93.39.98]>

At 9:59 AM -0700 10/1/2005, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
>Focusable (the traversalOn property) means you can select in a 
>field. Locked text (the lockText property) means the user can change 
>the text.

Er, "...means the user *can't* change the text", that is. Sigh.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Sun Oct  2 00:55:03 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 21:55:03 -0700
Subject: Random Questions?
In-Reply-To: <433ECBC6.6060804@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BF64B637.2E835%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

And this is *definitely* a case where you should be SURE to reset the
lineDelimeter to a return character.  All kinds of havoc could ensue if you
forget to undo this special setting.

I would prefer to use
   set the itemDelimeter to "|"
>      put any ITEM of fld "questionList" into fld "question"
   set the itemDelimeter to ","

since I frequently set the itemDelim to tab (or other), I always assume I
need to set it before each use.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 10/1/05 10:47 AM, "Phil Davis" <davis.phil at comcast.net> wrote:

> Hi again -
> 
> I just realized I may have answered what you weren't asking.  :o/
> 
> It's still easy! If you have questions that contain multiple
> CR-delimited lines, you can do this:
> 
> 1) separate complete questions with a character that will never appear
> in the questions - like a pipe "|" or tilde "~".
> 
> 2) put that special character between questions.
> 
> 3) Refer to it this way in code:
>      set the lineDelimiter to "~" -- or whatever the char is
>      put any line of fld "questionList" into fld "question"
> 
> Thanks -
> Phil
> 
> Phil Davis wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> SupermanSlyr at aol.com wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm trying to make a testing program that inserts random questions
>>> into a  field when the card is open. I was not sure exactly how to go
>>> about doing this.  This is what I tried to do. I put a field on each
>>> card with a few names on it,  just to see if I had the random thing
>>> down. The I made the field invisible. I  tried to scripted the card to:
>>> On opencard
>>> get random(item 1 of field "ranName") put it into field "Question"
>>> end opencard  
>>> (I know I said the field has names in it. I  just wanted to see if I
>>> could get random text this way before I went nuts adding  long
>>> questions.) 
>>> Also I'm still not 100% sure how (even if the above did work) to
>>> make  the question occupy more than just one line of text. I assume
>>> I'd have  to use "item" and maybe a chunk operation? Because I wasn't
>>> sure how  Revolution knows when an item begins, and when it ends. I
>>> just want to make  a simple testing program that doesn't always give
>>> the same questions. I  know the answer is probably very simple, and
>>> right under my nose again.
>> 
>> 
>> You're right - it's easy.
>> 
>> If 'random' is confusing, you can do this instead to display long
>> questions:
>> 
>>  put any line of fld "ranName" into fld "question"
>> 
>> In Rev fields, a "line" is a string of text ending with a CR. That
>> means it can "soft wrap" in a field an still be used as a single line.
>> 
>> HTH -
>> Phil Davis
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Oct  2 01:54:56 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 07:54:56 +0200
Subject: new kid on the block
Message-ID: <20051002052812.DA4D3824D17@mail.runrev.com>

for those it might interest...

http://www.tigabyte.com/default.html

and it seems to have Neural Networks built in...

cheers
Xavier 
http://MonsieurX.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Oct  2 02:34:14 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 01:34:14 -0500
Subject: new kid on the block
In-Reply-To: <20051002052812.DA4D3824D17@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BF64E996.2CC71%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/2/05 12:54 AM, "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:

> for those it might interest...
> 
> http://www.tigabyte.com/default.html
> 
> and it seems to have Neural Networks built in...

It's this odd combination of REALBasic and HyperCard: an RB app built with a
limited HyperTalk-style interpreter (at least to some degree), along with
the xTalk-like globals/locals and lack of variable declaration, but with the
ability to add code it in RBScript.

I downloaded the Trial version to check it out, and it is simplistic and a
bit odd, although the Neural Networks stuff may be interesting (didn't have
a chance to check that out). Here's an comparison of some simple stuff:

Revolution:
     answer "Pick a fruit:" with "Apple" or "Orange"
     answer it

HyperNext:
     Local tAns,tButtons,tButton
     Put 'Orange,Apple' into tButtons
     Dialog 'Hello, pick a fruit:','Apple','Orange'
     Put AnswerFN into tAns
     Add 1 to tAns
     Put NthChunkFN(tButtons,',',tAns) into tButton
     Message tButton

So a few things to note on the HyperNext code:

1) You have to declare all variables

2) The 'AnswerFN' function returns the number of the button picked, not the
text, and it is 0-based, and reads from the right (so Orange=0 and Apple=1),
so I had to put the name of the buttons in a separate variable (tButtons),
*backwards*.

3) You can't do math on variables (it seems), since "Put tAns+1 into tAns"
(or even a variant that put it into another declared variable) didn't work.
I had to use the "Add" command.

4) Although it uses chunks like "line" and "word", you can't use a phrase
like "item 2 of tButtons", but instead need to use the NthChunkFN function.

So although it is supposedly intended to be easier than Visual Basic (which
is what it is compared to on the site), it seems that it is still more
complicated than HyperCard... :-)

Anyway, that's my 2 cents with playing around with it for a half hour...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Oct  2 03:54:27 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 09:54:27 +0200
Subject: new kid on the block
In-Reply-To: <BF64E996.2CC71%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <20051002072737.69E10824E61@mail.runrev.com>

Thanks for that review Ken...

It kind of shows that Neural Networks keep coming around... Interesting...

And Hypercard just wont die! 

Certainly a valiant effort from that author but not much of a threat for rev
it seems. How is HyperNext's performance comparable to Rev?

BTW, I saw that link via the versiontracker.com mailist... it's usually a
nice
way to communicate your updates to a wide audience (pc and palm too) and
help 
rev with their marketing reach as well as yours... Why they don't do linux
is
beyond me ;)

cheers
Xavier


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ray
> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 8:34 AM
> To: Use Revolution List
> Subject: Re: new kid on the block
> 
> On 10/2/05 12:54 AM, "MisterX"  wrote:
> 
> > for those it might interest...
> > 
> > http://www.tigabyte.com/default.html
> > 
> > and it seems to have Neural Networks built in...
> 
> It's this odd combination of REALBasic and HyperCard: an RB 
> app built with a limited HyperTalk-style interpreter (at 
> least to some degree), along with the xTalk-like 
> globals/locals and lack of variable declaration, but with the 
> ability to add code it in RBScript.
> 
> I downloaded the Trial version to check it out, and it is 
> simplistic and a bit odd, although the Neural Networks stuff 
> may be interesting (didn't have a chance to check that out). 
> Here's an comparison of some simple stuff:
> 
> Revolution:
>      answer "Pick a fruit:" with "Apple" or "Orange"
>      answer it
> 
> HyperNext:
>      Local tAns,tButtons,tButton
>      Put 'Orange,Apple' into tButtons
>      Dialog 'Hello, pick a fruit:','Apple','Orange'
>      Put AnswerFN into tAns
>      Add 1 to tAns
>      Put NthChunkFN(tButtons,',',tAns) into tButton
>      Message tButton
> 
> So a few things to note on the HyperNext code:
> 
> 1) You have to declare all variables
> 
> 2) The 'AnswerFN' function returns the number of the button 
> picked, not the text, and it is 0-based, and reads from the 
> right (so Orange=0 and Apple=1), so I had to put the name of 
> the buttons in a separate variable (tButtons), *backwards*.
> 
> 3) You can't do math on variables (it seems), since "Put 
> tAns+1 into tAns"
> (or even a variant that put it into another declared 
> variable) didn't work.
> I had to use the "Add" command.
> 
> 4) Although it uses chunks like "line" and "word", you can't 
> use a phrase like "item 2 of tButtons", but instead need to 
> use the NthChunkFN function.
> 
> So although it is supposedly intended to be easier than 
> Visual Basic (which is what it is compared to on the site), 
> it seems that it is still more complicated than HyperCard... :-)
> 
> Anyway, that's my 2 cents with playing around with it for a 
> half hour...
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mlange at lexicall.org  Sun Oct  2 07:25:02 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 12:25:02 +0100
Subject: Ontology manager, nifty palettes added to the education gallery
In-Reply-To: <BF6467BB.131C2%dick.kriesel@mail.com>
References: <BF6467BB.131C2%dick.kriesel@mail.com>
Message-ID: <084462EF-A035-49C4-827A-C89DFCFC5656@lexicall.org>

Dear Dick,

> Is the ontology manager called "rdf view" at lexicall.org?
>
> I tried to download "rdf view" but got a 404:
> "The requested URL /stacks/education/tools_plugins/rdf_view.rev was  
> not
> found on this server."

Thanks for letting me know... I uploaded, tested, changed the name,  
uploaded again... and forgot to change the metadata information. This  
is fixed now.

> I'm interested in a Revolution-OWL interface.  What do you foresee  
> there?

I have just created an ontology project at eduforge (http:// 
eduforge.org). If you would like to collaborate, easiest is to  
register at eduforge, and then register for the ontology project  
(called ontoman) as soon as it is approved. I will keep you informed.

This is the very first version and I extensively rewrote the code  
from the previous tree-view stack (for the better). It will take a  
week or so to discover small bugs I have missed out. A stable version  
should be there in about a month time.

I will also work on export/import to OWL and RDF. For this, I will  
check up the source of the cobra application (COBrA Ontology Browser  
for Anatomy Mac OS X version 1.0 version 1.0): http:// 
www.inf.ed.ac.uk/research/isdd/admin/package?download=17, for tricks.

Ideal would be to be able to transfer to a graphical representation  
and to let the user manipulate both. I just downloaded a few open  
source projects of concept map software, like this ideapad for Palm  
(http://www.freewarepalm.com/graphics/ideapad.shtml). Not many are  
open source though.

The alternative is to import to a fully fledge application that does  
graphic: http://www.mindgenius.com/ (paying but I have a free license  
with my uni), myMind (free) http://www.futurosity.com/243/mymind-13- 
outlining-and-mind-mapping-tool. The OPML export now works fine with  
these other software.

Then, ontologies are things on which it is necessary to work  
collaboratively (there is no use to produce an ontology nobody else  
agree on or to have everyone using its very own ontology). I should  
therefore be possible to work remotely on the ontology tree.

If you have other ideas, let me know,
Marielle

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------------------------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage:  http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Lexicall: http://lexicall.org
Revolution-education: http://revolution.lexicall.org



From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Sun Oct  2 13:00:26 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 10:00:26 -0700
Subject: Hidden Clipboard Contents
Message-ID: <BF65603A.37896%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Hello Everyone,

I need to get at and mess with some clipboard contents that have been
obfuscated somehow.  I know that there is data up there stored in an xml
format that has been "wrapped" in something. But I can't get it.

The clipboard function returns "empty" and the cliboarddata function returns
"".

I know there is stuff up there, but it looks like the built in Rev functions
can't get at it.

Does anybody know a way around this.  Is there an external or library for
getting at hidden clipboard items?

Thanks

Todd

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Sun Oct  2 13:31:28 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 10:31:28 -0700
Subject: Hidden Clipboard Contents
In-Reply-To: <BF65603A.37896%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
References: <BF65603A.37896%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <p06230900bf65c9580765@[192.168.1.103]>

Todd, you used my favorite word 'obfuscated'.

The big question is... where in what application on what platform are 
you copying from?

Some apps might maintain their own copy/paste systems....

sqb


>Hello Everyone,
>
>I need to get at and mess with some clipboard contents that have been
>obfuscated somehow.  I know that there is data up there stored in an xml
>Todd Geist


From laguer at ucs.orst.edu  Sun Oct  2 13:47:25 2005
From: laguer at ucs.orst.edu (Rich Lague)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 10:47:25 -0700
Subject: list field-a race to the bottom
Message-ID: <97EBDE44-336C-11DA-B454-0003939F79D2@ucs.orst.edu>



I have made a list field for jumping to different cards in the stack-- 
and it works fine. But I do have a small interface annoyance because 
the click-on-line in the list field then jumps to the bottom of the 
list field. The only time this does not happen is when the list field 
is scrolled all the way to the top.

When a line in the list field is clicked it opens the corresponding 
card. (The lines in the list field are card names.) There is an 
openCard handler that sets the highlighted line of the list field to 
the line for the just opened card.

Is there some way to stop this jumping and just have the list field 
stay put when a card name is clicked on?

Thanks,

Rich Lague

From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Sun Oct  2 14:00:30 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 11:00:30 -0700
Subject: IDE Strangeness
In-Reply-To: <BF65603A.37896%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
References: <BF65603A.37896%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <p06230901bf65ca0a3109@[192.168.1.103]>

REV 2.6 - latest build  OSX 10.3.9 Powerbook 17" 133

I'm having a strange problem with the IDE. I'm working with MySQL and 
Trevor's DB library (both of which work fine) - but I'm getting 
unpredictable behavior in the IDE after hours of working out database 
subroutines and debugging (with the usual errors until one gets it 
right), and it seems to get worse with time, like a memory leak or 
something.

The symptoms are mainly that, after time, and randomly, important IDE 
components such as the Inspector, the the Message Box, the 
Application Browser and the ERROR window will not be brought back to 
the front after an earlier dismissal.

I've tried the usual suspects including downloading the latest fresh 
version from scratch, trashing the prefs (helped a little) and going 
back to 2.5.1 but it just seems to keep happening.

Has anyone else seen this behavior?

Also I remember there was a patch to fix the slow docs problem. I 
can't seem to find it- does anyone know where it might be found? 
Thanks!

stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -

From nnoydb at excite.com  Sun Oct  2 14:02:03 2005
From: nnoydb at excite.com (N)
Date: Sun,  2 Oct 2005 14:02:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: EXT.DLL
Message-ID: <20051002180203.1DA4AC0AFB@xprdmailfe25.nwk.excite.com>



I believe I have asked this before but received no answer.  Would it be pssible to have the EXT.DLL source procided for download?

Kevin


-==-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-
Disclaimer:

Any resemblance between the above views and those of my
employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely
coincidental. 
Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.

 The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them
is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of
the reader
 is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient. 
(A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope of this article.)



_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!




From rev at armbase.com  Sun Oct  2 14:39:55 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 19:39:55 +0100
Subject: stack position and flicker
Message-ID: <20051002193955.kq4knghbco0wccco@webmail.armbase.com>

Hi All
I have a stack with a collapse and expand buttons. She scripts of which are
similar.
Collapsing the stack is OK but if I expand the stack the top of it goes off the
screen if I move the collapsed screen near the top and press the expand button.

I fixed this with
on mouseUp
  put the top of stack Armbase into stacktop
  set the height of stack Armbase to 550

--now at this bit the stack is resized

  set the top of stack Armbase to stacktop

--at this point the stack top is reset so it doesn't go off the top of the
screen
--however, you can see this resizing and it looks like a flicker.

  hide button Expand
  show button Collapse
end mouseUp


Is there a way to prevent the screen from flickering. OS is WinXPSP2

Cheers
Bob



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Oct  2 16:17:22 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 15:17:22 -0500
Subject: stack position and flicker
In-Reply-To: <20051002193955.kq4knghbco0wccco@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <BF65AA82.2CCC8%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/2/05 1:39 PM, "rev at armbase.com" <rev at armbase.com> wrote:

>   set the height of stack Armbase to 550
> 
> --now at this bit the stack is resized
> 
>   set the top of stack Armbase to stacktop
> 
> --at this point the stack top is reset so it doesn't go off the top of the
> screen
> --however, you can see this resizing and it looks like a flicker.

Bob,

It's better if you just change the rect of the stack instead of changing the
height (which works from the vertical center of an object) and then setting
its top. Something like this (also it's good practice to quote the names of
objects - keeps you out of trouble):

on mouseUp
  put the rect of stack "Armbase" into tRect
  put (item 2 of tRect) + 550 into item 4 of tRect
  set the rect of stack "Armbase" to tRect
  hide button Expand
  show button Collapse
end mouseUp

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Sun Oct  2 16:20:54 2005
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (Scott Morrow)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 13:20:54 -0700
Subject: showLines (or hGrid) line thickness
Message-ID: <0ef897c53d1ac0403d8c8c564a45af48@elementarysoftware.com>

Greetings All,
I'm trying to print a field with a line under the text. The showLines 
(or even hGrid) property serve the on-screen purpose.  Unfortunately 
these lines are too thick when printed.  Is there a way to control the 
thickness of the showLines or hGrid line?  I can imagine several other 
methods of printing a line under the text but just setting a built in 
property seemed the simplest solution.
-Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust !)



From davis.phil at comcast.net  Sun Oct  2 16:21:39 2005
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 13:21:39 -0700
Subject: Hidden Clipboard Contents
In-Reply-To: <BF65603A.37896%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
References: <BF65603A.37896%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <43404153.1080000@comcast.net>

Hi Todd,

It seems "the clipboarddata" is an array. Try this after copying something:
    answer the keys of the clipboarddata

That should tell you what keys are available. Then you can use normal 
array syntax to get at your data, like this:
    put the clipboarddata["text"] into fld 1

HTH -
Phil Davis



Todd Geist wrote:

>Hello Everyone,
>
>I need to get at and mess with some clipboard contents that have been
>obfuscated somehow.  I know that there is data up there stored in an xml
>format that has been "wrapped" in something. But I can't get it.
>
>The clipboard function returns "empty" and the cliboarddata function returns
>"".
>
>I know there is stuff up there, but it looks like the built in Rev functions
>can't get at it.
>
>Does anybody know a way around this.  Is there an external or library for
>getting at hidden clipboard items?
>
>Thanks
>
>Todd
>
>  
>



From davis.phil at comcast.net  Sun Oct  2 16:33:48 2005
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 13:33:48 -0700
Subject: showLines (or hGrid) line thickness
In-Reply-To: <0ef897c53d1ac0403d8c8c564a45af48@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <0ef897c53d1ac0403d8c8c564a45af48@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <4340442C.5060008@comcast.net>

Hi Scott -
If you're using hGrid lines, you could "set the borderColor of fld x" to 
a light gray and see what that looks like when printed. It should make 
the gridlines light enough that they won't overpower the text.

While not really solving the problem, it may minimize the symptom.

Phil Davis


Scott Morrow wrote:

> Greetings All,
> I'm trying to print a field with a line under the text. The showLines 
> (or even hGrid) property serve the on-screen purpose.  Unfortunately 
> these lines are too thick when printed.  Is there a way to control the 
> thickness of the showLines or hGrid line?  I can imagine several other 
> methods of printing a line under the text but just setting a built in 
> property seemed the simplest solution.
> -Scott Morrow
>
> Elementary Software
> (Now with 20% less chalk dust !)




From rev at armbase.com  Sun Oct  2 16:40:52 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 21:40:52 +0100
Subject: stack position and flicker
In-Reply-To: <BF65AA82.2CCC8%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF65AA82.2CCC8%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <gemini.inr2s4000efyr02z8.rev@armbase.com>

You wrote:

Hi Ken

> On 10/2/05 1:39 PM, "rev at armbase.com" <rev at armbase.com> wrote:
Snip how I did it.

> on mouseUp
>   put the rect of stack "Armbase" into tRect
>   put (item 2 of tRect) + 550 into item 4 of tRect
>   set the rect of stack "Armbase" to tRect
>   hide button Expand
>   show button Collapse
> end mouseUp

Ken this is perfect, simple and elegant.

also  works for the collapse

 on mouseUp
   put the rect of stack "Armbase" into tRect
   put (item 2 of tRect) + 35 into item 4 of tRect
   set the rect of stack "Armbase" to tRect
   hide button Expand
   show button Collapse
 end mouseUp

Best regards
Bob; Sunny Scotland


From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Sun Oct  2 17:03:51 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 14:03:51 -0700
Subject: Hidden Clipboard Contents
In-Reply-To: <43404153.1080000@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BF659947.378DE%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>


Thanks Phil,

But your suggestion returns nothing.

The data that is on the clipboard isn't any of the common types.  It stored
in some sort of wrappper.

Is there a way to get the raw data off the clipboard?

Thanks

Todd


On 10/2/05 1:21 PM, "Phil Davis" <davis.phil at comcast.net> wrote:

> Hi Todd,
> 
> It seems "the clipboarddata" is an array. Try this after copying something:
>     answer the keys of the clipboarddata
> 
> That should tell you what keys are available. Then you can use normal
> array syntax to get at your data, like this:
>     put the clipboarddata["text"] into fld 1
> 
> HTH -
> Phil Davis

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Sun Oct  2 17:47:21 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 07:47:21 +1000
Subject: list field-a race to the bottom
In-Reply-To: <97EBDE44-336C-11DA-B454-0003939F79D2@ucs.orst.edu>
References: <97EBDE44-336C-11DA-B454-0003939F79D2@ucs.orst.edu>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510021447t3d3c59e1l396d59bca60274e5@mail.gmail.com>

> I have made a list field for jumping to different cards in the stack--
> and it works fine. But I do have a small interface annoyance because
> the click-on-line in the list field then jumps to the bottom of the
> list field. The only time this does not happen is when the list field
> is scrolled all the way to the top.
>
> When a line in the list field is clicked it opens the corresponding
> card. (The lines in the list field are card names.) There is an
> openCard handler that sets the highlighted line of the list field to
> the line for the just opened card.
>
> Is there some way to stop this jumping and just have the list field
> stay put when a card name is clicked on?
>

Setting the hilitedLine of a field will always cause it to scroll so
that the hilited line is visible. If you don't want this to happen,
you can check the vScroll of the field before you set the hilitedLine,
then set it back afterwards.

Sarah


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Oct  2 17:53:50 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 16:53:50 -0500
Subject: EXT.DLL
In-Reply-To: <20051002180203.1DA4AC0AFB@xprdmailfe25.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <BF65C11E.2CCD5%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/2/05 1:02 PM, "N" <nnoydb at excite.com> wrote:

> 
> I believe I have asked this before but received no answer.  Would it be
> pssible to have the EXT.DLL source procided for download?

You should send your request as an email to heather at runrev.com; it is
unlikely you'll get an answer for this on the list.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Sun Oct  2 18:25:35 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:25:35 +1000
Subject: Random Questions?
In-Reply-To: <BF64B637.2E835%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
References: <433ECBC6.6060804@comcast.net>
	<BF64B637.2E835%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510021525g17cad0fchbe062acb03685161@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/2/05, Jim Ault <JimAultWins at yahoo.com> wrote:
> And this is *definitely* a case where you should be SURE to reset the
> lineDelimeter to a return character.  All kinds of havoc could ensue if you
> forget to undo this special setting.
>
> I would prefer to use
>    set the itemDelimeter to "|"
> >      put any ITEM of fld "questionList" into fld "question"
>    set the itemDelimeter to ","
>
> since I frequently set the itemDelim to tab (or other), I always assume I
> need to set it before each use.
>

Hi Jim,

Remember that unlike in HyperCard, in Rev, the itemDelimiter is a
local property. It resets at the end of every handler and a changed
setting is not passed to handlers or functions called from a handler
that changed it.

This makes it much less important to reset it after every use, unless
you have long handlers that need to use multiple delimiters, in which
case it might be better to break them up into sub-handlers anyway.

Cheers,
Sarah


From abecedarian at mac.com  Sun Oct  2 19:32:13 2005
From: abecedarian at mac.com (Russell Martin)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 17:32:13 -0600
Subject: revDocWiki
In-Reply-To: <p06200700bf0b270ae35a@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <p06200700bf0b270ae35a@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <BF80B2E5-F4DF-4C78-B4BC-C3025B8413C7@mac.com>

I'm fairly new to Revolution. I recently purchased Dreamcard and  
while there are things that I really like about it, there have been  
several issues with it that took way too much time for me to either  
figure out work arounds on my own or search through the archives of  
this list for solutions.

I've found searching the list archives to be helpful, but time  
consuming to actually read through different threads until one person  
understood the question the other person was asking or experienced  
the same malfunction. I started wondering if anyone had a wiki where  
users could post helpful how-to's and sanity saving work arounds. Not  
wanting to reinvent the wheel, I searched the list archives and found  
this thread. It seems like others are interested in doing the same  
thing but that nothing has yet materialized. (I did find this http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=SoftwareRevolution,  
but felt that it wasn't quite what I was looking for.)

So, I've set up a wiki at http://revdocwiki.wikispaces.org/ . I've  
posted the 3 work arounds for the issues that have caused me the most  
frustration up until now. Wikispaces.org is new to me, so I can't  
vouch for them as a reliable space to host this information, however,  
I figure it's worth trying it out.

If anyone else is interested, please take a look and maybe post some  
information there as well.

===========================
Russ Martin
abecedarian at mac.com
russell_martin at yahoo.com


We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make  
us love one another. -- Henry David Thoreau


On Jul 25, 2005, at 5:43 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:

> Someone asked earlier today, in re the hypothetical wiki that might  
> be used to improve and expand the rev documentation: "What is Rev  
> willing to kick in?" or something along those lines.
>
> An obvious first step would be for Rev to convert its current  
> onboard docs into a format suitable for a wiki, and allow the  
> wikiMaster use of those docs, without charge. Rev could retain the  
> copyright, if it wanted to -- if they are copyrighted.
>
> Rev might want to abstain from any more obligations to the wiki,  
> until the Rev people see how it's working out. Heck, the wikiMaster  
> or wikiGroup might be able to charge Rev for the improved version  
> of its own docs. However, it seems more civilized for Rev and the  
> wikiMasters to reach some kind of agreement beforehand. That's more  
> civilized than hostageware.
>
> Of course, this is all hypothetical, at best, really more like  
> highly speculative.
>
> What would *I* be willing to do? Well, at least I can write. If a  
> property, chunk, object, command, etc., might benefit from a  
> verbose alternative to the usual terse dictionary entry, I would be  
> willing to write verbose explanations of some items I understand  
> well, and submit them to the wiki.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Tim
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Oct  2 21:07:47 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 20:07:47 -0500
Subject: Scripting conference - times and dates available with log
Message-ID: <43408463.1080706@hyperactivesw.com>

I've just re-uploaded the Dates and Times scripting conference stack 
with its chat transcript. Sarah Reichelt did a fantastic job, and 
everything you ever wanted to know about tracking and using times and 
dates is in there. You'll want to download this one.

Jacque
-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Oct  2 22:08:39 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 22:08:39 -0400
Subject: Scripting conference - times and dates available with log
In-Reply-To: <43408463.1080706@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <43408463.1080706@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <f5f38695a475b49ed03ae5de36a7cbd5@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 2, 2005, at 9:07 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> I've just re-uploaded the Dates and Times scripting conference stack 
> with its chat transcript. Sarah Reichelt did a fantastic job, and 
> everything you ever wanted to know about tracking and using times and 
> dates is in there. You'll want to download this one.

For those of us who are new, or just "back in town", is there an easy 
to access URL?  ;-)

Another project well-suited to Revolution comes my way, so - hi again 
everybody. I'm skimming the archives to catch up a bit.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From laguer at ucs.orst.edu  Sun Oct  2 23:23:48 2005
From: laguer at ucs.orst.edu (Rich Lague)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 20:23:48 -0700
Subject: list field-a race to the bottom
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860510021447t3d3c59e1l396d59bca60274e5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1CBB24E8-33BD-11DA-8A20-00306558D288@ucs.orst.edu>


On Sunday, October 2, 2005, at 02:47  PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>> I have made a list field for jumping to different cards in the stack--
>> and it works fine. But I do have a small interface annoyance because
>> the click-on-line in the list field then jumps to the bottom of the
>> list field. The only time this does not happen is when the list field
>> is scrolled all the way to the top.
>>
>> When a line in the list field is clicked it opens the corresponding
>> card. (The lines in the list field are card names.) There is an
>> openCard handler that sets the highlighted line of the list field to
>> the line for the just opened card.
>>
>> Is there some way to stop this jumping and just have the list field
>> stay put when a card name is clicked on?
>>
>
> Setting the hilitedLine of a field will always cause it to scroll so
> that the hilited line is visible. If you don't want this to happen,
> you can check the vScroll of the field before you set the hilitedLine,
> then set it back afterwards.
>
> Sarah

Thanks Sarah,

I'm not sure that is exactly my problem. The hilited line is already 
visible-- it was just clicked on. It jumps the hilited line from 
wherever it is in field to the very bottom line of the field. However, 
I can see that your suggestion will work for what I want. I'll give it 
a go.

Rich Lague



From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Sun Oct  2 23:48:30 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 20:48:30 -0700
Subject: Raw Clipboard Contents
Message-ID: <BF65F81E.3797C%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Hello,

I am working with an app that puts some data on the clipboard in a special
format.  I know that it just XML wrapped in something maybe a binary.  I
need to get that data, edit it and put it back.

 answer the keys of the clipboarddata

Returns "", so none of the keys of clipboarddata will work

Is there anyway to read and write to the clipboard in some sort of "raw"
format? 


Thanks

Todd


-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From davis.phil at comcast.net  Mon Oct  3 00:02:43 2005
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 21:02:43 -0700
Subject: Raw Clipboard Contents
In-Reply-To: <BF65F81E.3797C%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
References: <BF65F81E.3797C%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <4340AD63.9010702@comcast.net>

Todd Geist wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am working with an app that puts some data on the clipboard in a special
> format.  I know that it just XML wrapped in something maybe a binary.  I
> need to get that data, edit it and put it back.
> 
>  answer the keys of the clipboarddata
> 
> Returns "", so none of the keys of clipboarddata will work
> 
> Is there anyway to read and write to the clipboard in some sort of "raw"
> format? 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Todd


Todd -

Is there any way your Rev app can read the file, edit the data and write 
it back to disk? I don't know of a simple way to get it from the 
clipboard if it's not "there" according to Rev.

Phil Davis



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Oct  3 00:37:22 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 23:37:22 -0500
Subject: Scripting conference - times and dates available with log
In-Reply-To: <f5f38695a475b49ed03ae5de36a7cbd5@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BF661FB2.2CCF4%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/2/05 9:08 PM, "Troy Rollins" <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:

> On Oct 2, 2005, at 9:07 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> 
>> I've just re-uploaded the Dates and Times scripting conference stack
>> with its chat transcript. Sarah Reichelt did a fantastic job, and
>> everything you ever wanted to know about tracking and using times and
>> dates is in there. You'll want to download this one.
> 
> For those of us who are new, or just "back in town", is there an easy
> to access URL?  ;-)

  http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences/

You can download all of the conferences to date from there.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Oct  3 01:13:25 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 01:13:25 -0400
Subject: Scripting conference - times and dates available with log
In-Reply-To: <BF661FB2.2CCF4%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF661FB2.2CCF4%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <452e53e4d85e7c02c48c780ce44a13cf@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 3, 2005, at 12:37 AM, Ken Ray wrote:

>   http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences/
>
> You can download all of the conferences to date from there.

Oops. I missed that. ;-)

I'd been to all the sites in my quick tour except the mother ship's. 
The RunRev site is looking really nice, and the conference logs are 
great.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  3 01:21:53 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 22:21:53 -0700
Subject: Random Questions?
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860510021525g17cad0fchbe062acb03685161@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BF660E01.2E874%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Very true... " resets at the end of every handler"  New users may not
understand 'scope',  and this behavior.
My *caution* was really directed at those who WILL write long handlers
because it is easier than figuring out functions and procedures.

Most people working with fields construct something to do with repeats and
lines in a field or container, and perhaps arrays and custom properties.
The confusion comes when 'lines' are not 'lines' and 'items' are not 'items'
AND your code sure looks like it is right.

Your comment is appreciated.  Funny how many of these tidbits like you
offered help reinforce the use of the language.  I have a challenge since I
use about 7 languages at the same time.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 10/2/05 3:25 PM, "Sarah Reichelt" <sarah.reichelt at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 10/2/05, Jim Ault <JimAultWins at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> And this is *definitely* a case where you should be SURE to reset the
>> lineDelimeter to a return character.  All kinds of havoc could ensue if you
>> forget to undo this special setting.
>> 
>> I would prefer to use
>>    set the itemDelimeter to "|"
>>>      put any ITEM of fld "questionList" into fld "question"
>>    set the itemDelimeter to ","
>> 
>> since I frequently set the itemDelim to tab (or other), I always assume I
>> need to set it before each use.
>> 
> 
> Hi Jim,
> 
> Remember that unlike in HyperCard, in Rev, the itemDelimiter is a
> local property. It resets at the end of every handler and a changed
> setting is not passed to handlers or functions called from a handler
> that changed it.
> 
> This makes it much less important to reset it after every use, unless
> you have long handlers that need to use multiple delimiters, in which
> case it might be better to break them up into sub-handlers anyway.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct  3 01:35:19 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 00:35:19 -0500
Subject: Scripting conference - times and dates available with log
In-Reply-To: <f5f38695a475b49ed03ae5de36a7cbd5@rpsystems.net>
References: <43408463.1080706@hyperactivesw.com>
	<f5f38695a475b49ed03ae5de36a7cbd5@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <4340C317.6050104@hyperactivesw.com>

Troy Rollins wrote:
> 
> On Oct 2, 2005, at 9:07 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> 
>> I've just re-uploaded the Dates and Times scripting conference stack 
>> with its chat transcript. Sarah Reichelt did a fantastic job, and 
>> everything you ever wanted to know about tracking and using times and 
>> dates is in there. You'll want to download this one.
> 
> 
> For those of us who are new, or just "back in town", is there an easy to 
> access URL?  ;-)
> 

Apologies, this is the second time I've forgotten to post a URL. It's here:

<http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences>

But for anyone who finds themselves looking for the conference stacks in 
the future, there is a prominent link at the bottom left of the main 
runrev web page, and you can always get to the scripting conferences 
from there. That way is easier to remember.

> Another project well-suited to Revolution comes my way, so - hi again 
> everybody. I'm skimming the archives to catch up a bit.

Welcome back.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  3 01:42:08 2005
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 22:42:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: stack position and flicker
In-Reply-To: <BF65AA82.2CCC8%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <20051003054208.70258.qmail@web33011.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



--- Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

> It's better if you just change the rect of the
> stack instead of changing the
> height (which works from the vertical center of
> an object) and then setting its top.

you must have developed a very good 
sense of rectangular layout. setting the
height, width, top, & left of objects 
makes it easier for me to visualize them
and to change things when needed.

Erik Hansen

erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct  3 01:42:50 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 00:42:50 -0500
Subject: list field-a race to the bottom
In-Reply-To: <1CBB24E8-33BD-11DA-8A20-00306558D288@ucs.orst.edu>
References: <1CBB24E8-33BD-11DA-8A20-00306558D288@ucs.orst.edu>
Message-ID: <4340C4DA.7020805@hyperactivesw.com>

Rich Lague wrote:

> I'm not sure that is exactly my problem. The hilited line is already 
> visible-- it was just clicked on. It jumps the hilited line from 
> wherever it is in field to the very bottom line of the field. However, I 
> can see that your suggestion will work for what I want. I'll give it a go.

Yeah, that's been a thing with the engine since before Runtime got it. I 
asked Scott Raney to fix it but he wouldn't do it (not sure why) and the 
way the thing jumped around in MetaCard's control browser was enough to 
drive you batty. Some of us altered the script in our own copies of the 
MC IDE to do as Sarah suggested. The MC fix was different, but in most 
cases you'd want to do something like catch mousedown, store the scroll 
somewhere (custom prop, global or local variable, etc.) and on mouseup, 
restore it.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From tkuypers at pandora.be  Mon Oct  3 04:40:36 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:40:36 +0200
Subject: TCP/IP error
Message-ID: <8AAF21F6-2786-4D91-A12C-8D391CB91367@pandora.be>

Very small & quick question:

RR application running on Mac OS9. It used to work fine, but now I  
get an error when connecting to the mySQL database:
Can't create TCP/IP socket (43)

Anyone an idea on what could cause this error? It looks like a Mac OS  
error...


Regards,

Ton Kuypers



From rev at armbase.com  Mon Oct  3 06:59:44 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 11:59:44 +0100
Subject: making a popup insert text.
Message-ID: <20051003115944.9trg39mfwkkcsco4@webmail.armbase.com>

Hi All.

Does anyone have a simple script that shows how to use a popup to insert text
into a field depending on the popup item chosen. Alternatively how a popup is
used to change the fontsize depending on the number chosen in the popup. I know
it is really basic, however, I cant access revonline here (weird firewall issues
I think).

Cheers
Bob



From John.Thornton at gb.mahle.com  Mon Oct  3 07:06:27 2005
From: John.Thornton at gb.mahle.com (Thornton, John)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 12:06:27 +0100
Subject: making a popup insert text.
Message-ID: <2AC7D7ECB6CC2C4D912B478A066E802270C9A7@ukcoswnhm0002.uk.cosworth-technology.local>

Bob,
Don't worry about being "really basic", I also have the same problem in that I can't access revonline from my machine.  I also have a really basic question, being new to Revolution...

How do I query the state of a CheckBoxes in a Button's script, which is on the same card.  Please can you enlighten me with the syntax.  I have tried

if hilite of Check "AFR" = "true" then answer "You ticked AFR"

"AFR" is the name of the CheckBox.  I have attached v. basic script if anyone could take a couple of mins to show me where I am going wrong.

Regards

John Thornton
MAHLE Powertrain Ltd.
Design Analysis

Costin House, St. James Mill Road, Northampton, United Kingdom, NN5 5TZ
Phone: +44 870 157 3109  Fax: +44 870 157 3103

john.thornton at gb.mahle.com   http://www.mahle.com



-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of
rev at armbase.com
Sent: 03 October 2005 12:00
To: runrevlist
Subject: making a popup insert text.


Hi All.

Does anyone have a simple script that shows how to use a popup to insert text
into a field depending on the popup item chosen. Alternatively how a popup is
used to change the fontsize depending on the number chosen in the popup. I know
it is really basic, however, I cant access revonline here (weird firewall issues
I think).

Cheers
Bob

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From mark at maseurope.net  Mon Oct  3 07:14:11 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 12:14:11 +0100
Subject: making a popup insert text.
In-Reply-To: <2AC7D7ECB6CC2C4D912B478A066E802270C9A7@ukcoswnhm0002.uk.cosworth-technology.local>
References: <2AC7D7ECB6CC2C4D912B478A066E802270C9A7@ukcoswnhm0002.uk.cosworth-technology.local>
Message-ID: <0928C3C6-0E95-465C-8F22-79A650B8A18A@maseurope.net>

John, a checkbox is just a type of button, so:

if hilite of btn "AFR" then answer "You ticked AFR"

Mark

On 3 Oct 2005, at 12:06, Thornton, John wrote:

> Bob,
> Don't worry about being "really basic", I also have the same  
> problem in that I can't access revonline from my machine.  I also  
> have a really basic question, being new to Revolution...
>
> How do I query the state of a CheckBoxes in a Button's script,  
> which is on the same card.  Please can you enlighten me with the  
> syntax.  I have tried
>
> if hilite of Check "AFR" = "true" then answer "You ticked AFR"
>
> "AFR" is the name of the CheckBox.  I have attached v. basic script  
> if anyone could take a couple of mins to show me where I am going  
> wrong.
>
> Regards
>
> John Thornton
> MAHLE Powertrain Ltd.
> Design Analysis
>
> Costin House, St. James Mill Road, Northampton, United Kingdom, NN5  
> 5TZ
> Phone: +44 870 157 3109  Fax: +44 870 157 3103
>
> john.thornton at gb.mahle.com   http://www.mahle.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of
> rev at armbase.com
> Sent: 03 October 2005 12:00
> To: runrevlist
> Subject: making a popup insert text.
>
>
> Hi All.
>
> Does anyone have a simple script that shows how to use a popup to  
> insert text
> into a field depending on the popup item chosen. Alternatively how  
> a popup is
> used to change the fontsize depending on the number chosen in the  
> popup. I know
> it is really basic, however, I cant access revonline here (weird  
> firewall issues
> I think).
>
> Cheers
> Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From rev at armbase.com  Mon Oct  3 07:14:45 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 12:14:45 +0100
Subject: making a popup insert text.
In-Reply-To: <20051003115944.9trg39mfwkkcsco4@webmail.armbase.com>
References: <20051003115944.9trg39mfwkkcsco4@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <20051003121445.cf5mu83ri80ks4ww@webmail.armbase.com>

Quoting rev at armbase.com:

> Hi All.
>
> Does anyone have a simple script that shows how to use a popup to insert text
> into a field depending on the popup item chosen. Alternatively how a popup is
> used to change the fontsize depending on the number chosen in the 
> popup. I know
> it is really basic, however, I cant access revonline here (weird 
> firewall issues
> I think).

OK I've just realised that I should be using an option box.

I take it I just script this llike a tolbar menu?


Cheers
Bob
>
> Cheers
> Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>





From John.Thornton at gb.mahle.com  Mon Oct  3 07:32:20 2005
From: John.Thornton at gb.mahle.com (Thornton, John)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 12:32:20 +0100
Subject: making a popup insert text.
Message-ID: <2AC7D7ECB6CC2C4D912B478A066E802270C9A8@ukcoswnhm0002.uk.cosworth-technology.local>

Thanks Mark!

Regards

John Thornton
MAHLE Powertrain Ltd.
Design Analysis

Costin House, St. James Mill Road, Northampton, United Kingdom, NN5 5TZ
Phone: +44 870 157 3109  Fax: +44 870 157 3103

john.thornton at gb.mahle.com   http://www.mahle.com



-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of Mark Smith
Sent: 03 October 2005 12:14
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: making a popup insert text.


John, a checkbox is just a type of button, so:

if hilite of btn "AFR" then answer "You ticked AFR"

Mark

On 3 Oct 2005, at 12:06, Thornton, John wrote:

> Bob,
> Don't worry about being "really basic", I also have the same  
> problem in that I can't access revonline from my machine.  I also  
> have a really basic question, being new to Revolution...
>
> How do I query the state of a CheckBoxes in a Button's script,  
> which is on the same card.  Please can you enlighten me with the  
> syntax.  I have tried
>
> if hilite of Check "AFR" = "true" then answer "You ticked AFR"
>
> "AFR" is the name of the CheckBox.  I have attached v. basic script  
> if anyone could take a couple of mins to show me where I am going  
> wrong.
>
> Regards
>
> John Thornton
> MAHLE Powertrain Ltd.
> Design Analysis
>
> Costin House, St. James Mill Road, Northampton, United Kingdom, NN5  
> 5TZ
> Phone: +44 870 157 3109  Fax: +44 870 157 3103
>
> john.thornton at gb.mahle.com   http://www.mahle.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]On Behalf Of
> rev at armbase.com
> Sent: 03 October 2005 12:00
> To: runrevlist
> Subject: making a popup insert text.
>
>
> Hi All.
>
> Does anyone have a simple script that shows how to use a popup to  
> insert text
> into a field depending on the popup item chosen. Alternatively how  
> a popup is
> used to change the fontsize depending on the number chosen in the  
> popup. I know
> it is really basic, however, I cant access revonline here (weird  
> firewall issues
> I think).
>
> Cheers
> Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Mon Oct  3 09:13:24 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:13:24 +0100
Subject: High-Lighting an Image Object
In-Reply-To: <4340C317.6050104@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <43408463.1080706@hyperactivesw.com>
	<f5f38695a475b49ed03ae5de36a7cbd5@rpsystems.net>
	<4340C317.6050104@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bf66de5443f1@[192.168.0.100]>

Hi,

I have an Image Object that I am using as the target of a Drag and 
Drop operation. I do the same on a text field and when the cursor is 
over the field it lights up (by setting the border color in the 
dragEnter and dragLeave handlers. I am doing the same with the image 
object but it has no effect.

How can I highlight an Image Object so the user knows that it is 
capable of accepting the drop?

Thanks a lot
All the Best
Dave


From PradeepKumar.MITTAL at insead.edu  Mon Oct  3 09:22:44 2005
From: PradeepKumar.MITTAL at insead.edu (MITTAL Pradeep Kumar)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:22:44 +0200
Subject: How to check internet connection
Message-ID: <8CD3C97D72BC144CB87AEBAD8D2E973202DF134E@GAIA.FBL.insead.intra>

Hello,
 
I want to check from revolution desktop program to know whether the user
is connected to internet.
 
Could anyone please provide me the code or some guide to do this.
 
Thanks
Regards
Pradeep
 
 


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Mon Oct  3 09:33:06 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:33:06 +0200
Subject: How to check internet connection
In-Reply-To: <8CD3C97D72BC144CB87AEBAD8D2E973202DF134E@GAIA.FBL.insead.intra>
Message-ID: <OFA74847D2.68FB44BB-ONC125708F.0049EEA8-C125708F.004A3136@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Pradeep,

There's many different ways to do this, but the simplest that comes to 
mind would be

put url "http://monsieurx.com" into whatever -- any other world famous web 
site 

that shoult give you either peep or a great websites' html data but who 
cares, we just want
a proof that internet exists!

Ping or ipconfig can help but they dont prove anything...

hope that helps...
Cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 03/10/2005 15:22:44:

> Hello,
> 
> I want to check from revolution desktop program to know whether the user
> is connected to internet.
> 
> Could anyone please provide me the code or some guide to do this.
> 
> Thanks
> Regards
> Pradeep
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
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From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Mon Oct  3 09:51:20 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:51:20 +0100
Subject: Structures in RunRev
In-Reply-To: <2AC7D7ECB6CC2C4D912B478A066E802270C9A7@ukcoswnhm0002.uk.cosworth-technolo
	gy.local>
References: <2AC7D7ECB6CC2C4D912B478A066E802270C9A7@ukcoswnhm0002.uk.cosworth-technolo
	gy.local>
Message-ID: <a05210601bf66e59efa55@[192.168.0.100]>

Hi,

In my opinion, one thing that is missing from TranScript/RunRev is 
the ability to define structures. It would be great to be able to 
define a structure as so:

structure("FileInfoStruct(mFileName,mFileWidth,mFileHeight)")

then access it like:

global structure("FileInfoStruc(myFileInfo(empty,0,0))")

or

local structure("FileInfoStruc(myFileInfo(empty,0,0))")

---------------------

put "xxxxxxx" into the mFileName of myFileInfo
put 1024 into the mFileWidth of myFileInfo
put 768 into the mFileHeight of myFileInfo

Any comments?

Thanks a lot
Dave


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Mon Oct  3 09:56:39 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:56:39 +0200
Subject: High-Lighting an Image Object
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bf66de5443f1@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <OF8E9D9C5F.D4EBB291-ONC125708F.004C1BF0-C125708F.004C5943@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi David

you can change the border of he image...

on mouseenter
  set the showborder of me to true
--set the bordercolor to yellow
  repeat with x = 0 to 3
   wait 10 milliseconds
 set the borderwidth of me to x
  end repeat
  repeat with x = 3 down to 0
   wait 10 milliseconds
    set the borderwidth of me to x
  end repeat
  set the border of me to false
end mouseenter

BUT, there's no bordercolor property for images... so you can't set it to 
a color...
Another possibility is to draw a button behind the image and have that 
change borders

cheers
Xavier


use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 03/10/2005 15:13:24:

> Hi,
> 
> I have an Image Object that I am using as the target of a Drag and 
> Drop operation. I do the same on a text field and when the cursor is 
> over the field it lights up (by setting the border color in the 
> dragEnter and dragLeave handlers. I am doing the same with the image 
> object but it has no effect.
> 
> How can I highlight an Image Object so the user knows that it is 
> capable of accepting the drop?
> 
> Thanks a lot
> All the Best
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
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END OF DISCLAIMER


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Mon Oct  3 09:58:48 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:58:48 +0200
Subject: Structures in RunRev
In-Reply-To: <a05210601bf66e59efa55@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <OF416201BA.9AEA0BCA-ONC125708F.004C9FB6-C125708F.004C8B71@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi David,

Hi David,

You dont need structures. You can use the arrays for that without any 
problem

struct contact[id] {
  name;
  age;
  height;
  weigth
}

is the same as

array[id,"name"]
array[id,"height']

and so on...

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 03/10/2005 15:51:20:

> Hi,
> 
> In my opinion, one thing that is missing from TranScript/RunRev is 
> the ability to define structures. It would be great to be able to 
> define a structure as so:
> 
> structure("FileInfoStruct(mFileName,mFileWidth,mFileHeight)")
> 
> then access it like:
> 
> global structure("FileInfoStruc(myFileInfo(empty,0,0))")
> 
> or
> 
> local structure("FileInfoStruc(myFileInfo(empty,0,0))")
> 
> ---------------------
> 
> put "xxxxxxx" into the mFileName of myFileInfo
> put 1024 into the mFileWidth of myFileInfo
> put 768 into the mFileHeight of myFileInfo
> 
> Any comments?
> 
> Thanks a lot
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From todd at geistinteractive.com  Sun Oct  2 12:53:39 2005
From: todd at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 09:53:39 -0700
Subject: Hidden Clipboard Contents
Message-ID: <BF655EA3.3788B%todd@geistinteractive.com>

Hello Everyone,

I need to get at and mess with some clipboard contents that have been
obfuscated somehow.  I know that there is data up there stored in an xml
format that has been "wrapped" in something. But I can't get it.

The clipboard function returns "empty" and the cliboarddata function returns
"".

I know there is stuff up there, but it looks like the built in Rev functions
can't get at it.

Does anybody know a way around this.  Is there an external or library for
getting at hidden clipboard items?

Thanks

Todd

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From tkuypers at pandora.be  Mon Oct  3 10:06:33 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 16:06:33 +0200
Subject: TCP/IP error addendum
In-Reply-To: <8AAF21F6-2786-4D91-A12C-8D391CB91367@pandora.be>
References: <8AAF21F6-2786-4D91-A12C-8D391CB91367@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <0B022986-BD4F-4258-A50A-587988344B90@pandora.be>

This morning I've posted an error with RR:
When connecting to a mySQL database I get the error "Can't create TCP/ 
IP socket (43)"

The strange thing is that there is no problem when using the IDE or a  
standalone for Windows, only when creating a standalone for Mac OS9.

Anyone any suggestions before I put all kind of answer messages in  
the source to see where things go wrong in the standalone?

Regards,

Ton Kuypers



From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Mon Oct  3 10:11:26 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 16:11:26 +0200
Subject: TCP/IP error addendum
In-Reply-To: <0B022986-BD4F-4258-A50A-587988344B90@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <OFE0E0C46C.AD2679C2-ONC125708F.004DE3A6-C125708F.004DB3A7@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Ton

Seems like maybe you forgot to include the revdatabase library...

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 03/10/2005 16:06:33:

> This morning I've posted an error with RR:
> When connecting to a mySQL database I get the error "Can't create TCP/ 
> IP socket (43)"
> 
> The strange thing is that there is no problem when using the IDE or a 
> standalone for Windows, only when creating a standalone for Mac OS9.
> 
> Anyone any suggestions before I put all kind of answer messages in 
> the source to see where things go wrong in the standalone?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ton Kuypers
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From tkuypers at pandora.be  Mon Oct  3 10:20:47 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 16:20:47 +0200
Subject: TCP/IP error addendum
In-Reply-To: <OFE0E0C46C.AD2679C2-ONC125708F.004DE3A6-C125708F.004DB3A7@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OFE0E0C46C.AD2679C2-ONC125708F.004DE3A6-C125708F.004DB3A7@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <E70149DF-01F7-48B4-80C9-D09CA4E50515@pandora.be>

In the Standalone Application Settings I've checked the mySQL and  
Valentia libs... They also appear in the folder next to the standalone.

It used to work and on Windows it still does, that's the strange thing.

Ton


On 3-okt-05, at 16:11, xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:

> Hi Ton
>
> Seems like maybe you forgot to include the revdatabase library...
>
> cheers
> Xavier
>
> use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 03/10/2005 16:06:33:
>
>
>> This morning I've posted an error with RR:
>> When connecting to a mySQL database I get the error "Can't create  
>> TCP/
>> IP socket (43)"
>>
>> The strange thing is that there is no problem when using the IDE or a
>> standalone for Windows, only when creating a standalone for Mac OS9.
>>
>> Anyone any suggestions before I put all kind of answer messages in
>> the source to see where things go wrong in the standalone?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Ton Kuypers
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
>
> IMPORTANT MESSAGE
>
> Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
> International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
> this message.
>
> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
> legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you  
> are
> not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
> any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
> prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
> those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
> states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
> its affiliates or subsidiaries.
>
> END OF DISCLAIMER
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From davecalk at intergate.com  Mon Oct  3 04:22:33 2005
From: davecalk at intergate.com (Dave Calkins)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 01:22:33 -0700
Subject: What is the difference between Msg Box window / Script Window /
	Field?
In-Reply-To: <20051002170004.3B000824E4B@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051002170004.3B000824E4B@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <ff9262ffba4c03acb5cad9d219be490f@intergate.com>

I have been working with some ASCII controls and found that while the 
message box displays the controls  the Script window and fields do not. 
Why is that? On the engine level, what is the difference between them. 
I have a few speculative guesses, but nothing more.

on mouseUp
   put empty into fld "Other Data"
   put empty into fld "Field 1"
   put empty into msg
   repeat with c = 1 to 32
     put numtochar (c) into line 1 of fld "Other Data"
     get the htmltext of line 1 of fld "Other Data"
     put "NTC    "  &  c  & "   =  " &  numtochar (c) & "    HTMLtext   
=  "  &  it  & cr after fld "Field 1"
     put "NTC    "  &  c  & "   =  " &  numtochar (c) & "    HTMLtext   
=  "  &  it  & cr after msg
   end repeat

end mouseUp

The values displayed on 10.3.8 in the field or the script window just 
show the generic place holding box while the message window displays 
most of the actual characters.


It would be nice to see the actual characters in the scripting window.


Dave Calkins


From mark at maseurope.net  Mon Oct  3 10:26:25 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:26:25 +0100
Subject: Structures in RunRev
In-Reply-To: <OF416201BA.9AEA0BCA-ONC125708F.004C9FB6-C125708F.004C8B71@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OF416201BA.9AEA0BCA-ONC125708F.004C9FB6-C125708F.004C8B71@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <A598340A-C3BA-49B7-B417-713561F4B466@maseurope.net>

And you can also store such arrays in custom property sets very  
easily...

Mark

On 3 Oct 2005, at 14:58, xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> Hi David,
>
> You dont need structures. You can use the arrays for that without any
> problem
>
> struct contact[id] {
>   name;
>   age;
>   height;
>   weigth
> }
>
> is the same as
>
> array[id,"name"]
> array[id,"height']
>
> and so on...
>
> cheers
> Xavier
>
> use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 03/10/2005 15:51:20:
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> In my opinion, one thing that is missing from TranScript/RunRev is
>> the ability to define structures. It would be great to be able to
>> define a structure as so:
>>
>> structure("FileInfoStruct(mFileName,mFileWidth,mFileHeight)")
>>
>> then access it like:
>>
>> global structure("FileInfoStruc(myFileInfo(empty,0,0))")
>>
>> or
>>
>> local structure("FileInfoStruc(myFileInfo(empty,0,0))")
>>
>> ---------------------
>>
>> put "xxxxxxx" into the mFileName of myFileInfo
>> put 1024 into the mFileWidth of myFileInfo
>> put 768 into the mFileHeight of myFileInfo
>>
>> Any comments?
>>
>> Thanks a lot
>> Dave
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
>
> IMPORTANT MESSAGE
>
> Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
> International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
> this message.
>
> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
> legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you  
> are
> not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
> any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
> prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
> those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
> states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
> its affiliates or subsidiaries.
>
> END OF DISCLAIMER
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Mon Oct  3 10:36:47 2005
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:36:47 EDT
Subject: High-Lighting an Image Object
Message-ID: <1dc.463a3179.30729bff@aol.com>

 
>BUT, there's no bordercolor property for images... so you can't set  it to 
>a color...


Half true... To change the bordercolor of an image you  have to rely on 
inheritance by changing the bodercolor of the  stack.
 
/H



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Oct  3 10:47:19 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 09:47:19 -0500
Subject: How to check internet connection
In-Reply-To: <8CD3C97D72BC144CB87AEBAD8D2E973202DF134E@GAIA.FBL.insead.intra>
Message-ID: <BF66AEA7.2CD37%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/3/05 8:22 AM, "MITTAL Pradeep Kumar" <PradeepKumar.MITTAL at insead.edu>
wrote:

> Hello,
>  
> I want to check from revolution desktop program to know whether the user
> is connected to internet.
>  
> Could anyone please provide me the code or some guide to do this.

Here you go:

function checkNetStatus
  -- hide shell activity from user
  set the hideConsoleWindows to true

  -- ping a host that should always
  -- visible to your computer
  get shell("ping 24.10.72.1 -n 1 -w 200")

  -- isolate the status info
  put lineoffset("% loss",it) into x
  set the itemDelimiter to "="
  get word 1 of last item of line x of it

  -- tell somebody!
  if it <> 1 then
    return "UP"
  else
    return "DOWN"
  end if
end checkNetStatus

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Mon Oct  3 10:51:14 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:51:14 -0400
Subject: Hidden Clipboard Contents
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A99682AF@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

Did you check both 
Clipboarddata["html"] and clipboarddata["text"]
?


-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Todd Geist
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 12:54 PM
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Hidden Clipboard Contents

Hello Everyone,

I need to get at and mess with some clipboard contents that have been
obfuscated somehow.  I know that there is data up there stored in an xml
format that has been "wrapped" in something. But I can't get it.

The clipboard function returns "empty" and the cliboarddata function
returns
"".

I know there is stuff up there, but it looks like the built in Rev
functions
can't get at it.

Does anybody know a way around this.  Is there an external or library
for
getting at hidden clipboard items?

Thanks

Todd

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Mon Oct  3 10:54:53 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:54:53 +0100
Subject: High-Lighting an Image Object
In-Reply-To: <1dc.463a3179.30729bff@aol.com>
References: <1dc.463a3179.30729bff@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a05210602bf66f640e2a2@[192.168.0.100]>

Hmmmmm, It seems pretty ariibtary which properties are enabled in 
which objects. I would have thought that being able to control the 
borderColor of an image would be very usefull. Why isn't this 
property implemented for images?

Thanks a lot
Dave


>
>>BUT, there's no bordercolor property for images... so you can't set  it to
>>a color...
>
>
>Half true... To change the bordercolor of an image you  have to rely on
>inheritance by changing the bodercolor of the  stack.
>
>/H
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Oct  3 10:56:59 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 09:56:59 -0500
Subject: What is the difference between Msg Box window / Script Window
 / Field?
In-Reply-To: <ff9262ffba4c03acb5cad9d219be490f@intergate.com>
Message-ID: <BF66B0EB.2CD39%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/3/05 3:22 AM, "Dave Calkins" <davecalk at intergate.com> wrote:

> I have been working with some ASCII controls and found that while the
> message box displays the controls  the Script window and fields do not.
> Why is that? On the engine level, what is the difference between them.
> I have a few speculative guesses, but nothing more.
> 
> on mouseUp
>    put empty into fld "Other Data"
>    put empty into fld "Field 1"
>    put empty into msg
>    repeat with c = 1 to 32
>      put numtochar (c) into line 1 of fld "Other Data"
>      get the htmltext of line 1 of fld "Other Data"
>      put "NTC    "  &  c  & "   =  " &  numtochar (c) & "    HTMLtext
> =  "  &  it  & cr after fld "Field 1"
>      put "NTC    "  &  c  & "   =  " &  numtochar (c) & "    HTMLtext
> =  "  &  it  & cr after msg
>    end repeat
> 
> end mouseUp
> 
> The values displayed on 10.3.8 in the field or the script window just
> show the generic place holding box while the message window displays
> most of the actual characters.
> 
> 
> It would be nice to see the actual characters in the scripting window.

Technically, there's nothing different between them - they are both field
objects. However what might be at work here is fonts - the message box may
use a different font than the script editor and it is the font that
determines how special characters are displayed.

Personally, unless you're only delivering for one platform, I'd suggest
*not* button high ASCII characters (or control characters) in a script, but
rather use numToChar instead.

Just my 2 cents,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Oct  3 10:59:56 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 09:59:56 -0500
Subject: stack position and flicker
In-Reply-To: <20051003054208.70258.qmail@web33011.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BF66B19C.2CD3C%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/3/05 12:42 AM, "Erik Hansen" <erikhans08 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
> --- Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:
> 
>> It's better if you just change the rect of the
>> stack instead of changing the
>> height (which works from the vertical center of
>> an object) and then setting its top.
> 
> you must have developed a very good
> sense of rectangular layout. setting the
> height, width, top, & left of objects
> makes it easier for me to visualize them
> and to change things when needed.

True, and you can do this with card objects under lockScreen so you don't
see the adjustments - but unfortunately that doesn't work for stacks - only
changing the rect will make it appear not to jump around.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From liamlambert at mac.com  Mon Oct  3 11:15:14 2005
From: liamlambert at mac.com (liamlambert)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 16:15:14 +0100
Subject: Teleo from makingthings.com
Message-ID: <3943C3FB-C5D1-4268-B3C0-25009CE0C803@mac.com>

Sarah
Just a note to say thank you I got the weeder device and your stack
and got my project up and running I am very happy with it
Thank you for all your help
Liam L.


 > Sarah thanks for your reply Does weeder devices work with mac's (osx)
 > Liam

Hi Liam,

I thought I had already answered this, but I can't find the answer, so
I guess I just imagined it :-)

Yes, I have only used these devices on Mac OS X. I use an FTDI
EasySync USB-serial adapter and then Rev's basic serial port commands.
You can have multiple Weeder modules connected together and the only
trick is to make sure you don't try talking to more than one at a
time. I set up a queue system which worked well for this.

There is a serial test stack on my web site which is useful for
testing serial connections to such things.
<http://www.troz.net/Rev/tutorials/SerialTest.rev.gz>

Cheers,
Sarah

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Oct  3 11:19:50 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 17:19:50 +0200
Subject: High-Lighting an Image Object
In-Reply-To: <1dc.463a3179.30729bff@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20051003145249.6F5C6824EDE@mail.runrev.com>

but wouldn't that implictely make all controls with non-assigned 
border-color suddenly become yellow or pink???

;)

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> FlexibleLearning at aol.com
> Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 4:37 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: High-Lighting an Image Object
> 
>  
> >BUT, there's no bordercolor property for images... so you 
> can't set  it 
> >to a color...
> 
> 
> Half true... To change the bordercolor of an image you  have 
> to rely on inheritance by changing the bodercolor of the  stack.
>  
> /H
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Mon Oct  3 11:17:36 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 11:17:36 -0400
Subject: High-Lighting an Image Object
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A99682B0@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

I agree it should be implemented.

A way to work around it would be to have a group that contains just the
image, and is set to the same size as the image (with margins of the
group set to 0) - the adjust the border of the group as needed.

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of David
Burgun
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 10:55 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: High-Lighting an Image Object

Hmmmmm, It seems pretty ariibtary which properties are enabled in 
which objects. I would have thought that being able to control the 
borderColor of an image would be very usefull. Why isn't this 
property implemented for images?

Thanks a lot
Dave


>
>>BUT, there's no bordercolor property for images... so you can't set
it to
>>a color...
>
>
>Half true... To change the bordercolor of an image you  have to rely on
>inheritance by changing the bodercolor of the  stack.
>
>/H
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From howard.bornstein at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 11:39:12 2005
From: howard.bornstein at gmail.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 11:39:12 -0400
Subject: revDocWiki
In-Reply-To: <200510022333.j92NXk1g001464@ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com>
References: <200510022333.j92NXk1g001464@ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3f07cc260510030839u4f0ff06bm463f8c8b2549b3a8@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/2/05, Russell Martin <abecedarian at mac.com> wrote:
> So, I've set up a wiki at http://revdocwiki.wikispaces.org/ .

Nice start. Just a note, that I found the wiki extremely slow. Often
>30 seconds to load a page.

--
Regards,

Howard Bornstein
-----------------------
www.designeq.com


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Mon Oct  3 11:46:42 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 16:46:42 +0100
Subject: Drag and Drop Problem
In-Reply-To: <BF66AEA7.2CD37%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF66AEA7.2CD37%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <a05210604bf66fa29cdb0@[192.168.0.100]>

Hi,

I think there is something I don't understand correctly:

I have a group that contains 5 controls, 2 of which can be the 
targets of a Drag and Drop operation.

On the 2 controls that can accept a drop, I have the following scripts:

on dragEnter
set the threeD of me to false
set the borderColor of me to "blue"

set the acceptDrop to true

pass dragEnter
end dragEnter

on dragLeave
set the threeD of me to true
set the borderColor of me to empty

set the acceptDrop to false

--  Do processing on dragData
........................
........................

send "dragLeave" to me
pass dragDrop
end dragDrop

However, sometimes (about 20% of the time) the borderColor does not 
get reset when the field is entered but not dropped into, or 
sometimes the field does not get high-lighted when the cursor does 
enter the field.

I seem to remember this happening before, and I seem to remember that 
I fixed it by putting dragEnter and dragLeave handlers in the parent 
Group, but of course, now I can't find that stack!

Any pointers on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a lot
Dave




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Oct  3 12:02:07 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 18:02:07 +0200
Subject: ANN: MoireX Volume 3 v3.5
Message-ID: <20051003153457.BC871824F05@mail.runrev.com>


Another leg into making this graphic utility do quantic wonders!
At least for a while... 

brrrr, it's a cold world out there!

So here's a little sunshine on your screens!

This new version of MoireX Volume 3 named "The color dimention" 
is significantly better, faster and more varied than 3.4.

New features and changes include: 

- "centered" draw was remade and it draws much better.
- a color cache (but not shure it may be that useful but it's an easy cache
model)
- Progress bar with time remaining to draw 
  an old gem from the XOS Time libraries
  revised for the impatient among you
- Modes 21 and 25 - go logarithmic!
- Normalized modes 1, 2 and 3 - much better
- Added the missing "no border" feature for shapes
- Rearanged the options - somewhat unfinished but given feedback
levels it shouldn't bother anyone until 3.5.1
- Moved all the drawing scripts to the stack script to improve
performance with shared variables - lots more possible.
- Added info such as number of objects per seconds, etc...
- Revised the About - not sure that will help but I hope

Download, screenshots, gallery and more is available at
http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=191

Only one issue:
- The time taken to draw in the info box is broken...

If you find new modes, I'll gladly include them in the next release...

Tips:
- draw with shapes without fill in centered draw mode
- RealTime Draw can make nicer pictures... but 10X more time
- Draw non-centered with fills
- different shapes in centered draw do nice things
- X and Y accellerators don?t look nice in non-centered-draw

Hope you have fun trying out all the modes, centered, shapes and border
options because each changes the fundamental drawing.

Mode 25 is based on exponentials and it's so randomly weird but there is 
a pattern, if you find the right options to unravel it, let me know... 

Modes 21-25 are based on logarithmic non-linear relationships between XY 
coordinate planes and RGB color-space... There's lots of room for more 
formulas but the compilation limitation in Rev require you to script these 
or loose lots of performance... So be it... 

One thing is for sure, writing your own mode is easy! I might renamed the
modes
in the near future to reflect the "scheme" of the mode...

Any ideas, mods, improvements, donations and critiques welcome as usual. 

RevIT!
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Oct  3 12:20:51 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 09:20:51 -0700
Subject: High-Lighting an Image Object
In-Reply-To: <a05210602bf66f640e2a2@[192.168.0.100]>
References: <1dc.463a3179.30729bff@aol.com>
	<a05210602bf66f640e2a2@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <43415A63.1080705@fourthworld.com>

David Burgun wrote:
> Hmmmmm, It seems pretty ariibtary which properties are enabled in which 
> objects. I would have thought that being able to control the borderColor 
> of an image would be very usefull. Why isn't this property implemented 
> for images?

It is.  The only arbitrary element here is which properties the IDE 
chooses to provide pickers for; the engine does provide a borderColor 
property for image objects.

Hard way to verify this:

on mouseUp
   put the properties of image 1 into t
   combine t with cr and tab
   put t
end mouseUp

Simple way to verify this:

Use my 4W Props tool, available as part of devolution:
<http://www.fourthworld.com/products/devolution/>

...and also available separately in RevNet --
see Development->Plugins->GoRevNet


--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Oct  3 13:22:43 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 19:22:43 +0200
Subject: High-Lighting an Image Object
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bf66de5443f1@[192.168.0.100]>
References: <43408463.1080706@hyperactivesw.com>
	<f5f38695a475b49ed03ae5de36a7cbd5@rpsystems.net>
	<4340C317.6050104@hyperactivesw.com>
	<a05210600bf66de5443f1@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <7757ADD9-0EF6-45AB-90C6-34942698BA64@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Dave,

Unfortunately :-( you can't set directly the borderColor of an image:
'set the borderColor of img 1 to red' don't lead to an error but has  
no effect.
The borderColor of an image is inherited from the group that owns the  
image, the card or the stack.
If you set the borderColor of the card/stack to any color, the  
borderColor of any image on this card/stack will be this color.
In this case, the dimensions of the image will not change and the  
border will mask an outlying part of the image.
If you set the borderColor of a group that owns one image, setting  
the showBorder of the group to true but the the showBorder of the  
image to false, you will be able to fix the borderWith and the  
margins (in the text formatting pane) of the group in order to fix  
where the border appears with great precision without outlying any  
part of the image (assuming that the width/height of the group are  
the formattedWidth/height of the group).
Finally, don't forget that the ThreeD of any object has to be set to  
false in order to show a coloured border.

Hope this helps.

Le 3 oct. 05 ? 15:13, David Burgun a ?crit :

> I have an Image Object that I am using as the target of a Drag and  
> Drop operation. I do the same on a text field and when the cursor  
> is over the field it lights up (by setting the border color in the  
> dragEnter and dragLeave handlers. I am doing the same with the  
> image object but it has no effect.
>
> How can I highlight an Image Object so the user knows that it is  
> capable of accepting the drop?

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Oct  3 14:13:20 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 11:13:20 -0700
Subject: High-Lighting an Image Object
In-Reply-To: <7757ADD9-0EF6-45AB-90C6-34942698BA64@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <43408463.1080706@hyperactivesw.com>	<f5f38695a475b49ed03ae5de36a7cbd5@rpsystems.net>	<4340C317.6050104@hyperactivesw.com>	<a05210600bf66de5443f1@[192.168.0.100]>
	<7757ADD9-0EF6-45AB-90C6-34942698BA64@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <434174C0.4050607@fourthworld.com>

Eric Chatonet wrote:
> Hi Dave,
> 
> Unfortunately :-( you can't set directly the borderColor of an image:
> 'set the borderColor of img 1 to red' don't lead to an error but has  no 
> effect.

Confirmed, and logged as Bug #3158:
<http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3158>

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Mon Oct  3 14:43:13 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 11:43:13 -0700
Subject: Hidden Clipboard Contents
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A99682AF@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <BF66C9D1.37AAC%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>


Yes I did.

It seems that if the clipboard contents is not one of the types expected by
Rev, Rev can't get them.

It would be great if something like clipboarddata["raw"] was available.

Thanks

Todd

On 10/3/05 7:51 AM, "Lynch, Jonathan" <bnz2 at cdc.gov> wrote:

> Did you check both
> Clipboarddata["html"] and clipboarddata["text"]
> ?

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Oct  3 15:08:14 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 12:08:14 -0700
Subject: making a popup insert text.
In-Reply-To: <2AC7D7ECB6CC2C4D912B478A066E802270C9A7@ukcoswnhm0002.uk.cosworth-technology.local>
References: <2AC7D7ECB6CC2C4D912B478A066E802270C9A7@ukcoswnhm0002.uk.cosworth-technology.local>
Message-ID: <40585C49-FA84-47D7-93A9-2E32D6FCEF8D@danshafer.com>

John....

Small mistake. There is no object in Revolution called a "check" or,  
for that matter, a "checkbox." It's a button. So a slight change to  
your code makes it work:

if hilite of button "AFR" = "true" then answer "You ticked AFR"

That said, you might (or might not) benefit from a couple of  
additional "tips."

First, you don't need the '= "true"' portion of your code because the  
hilite property returns either true or false so if you just test it,  
it comes out positive if the checkbox is ticked:

if hilite of button "AFR" then answer "You ticked AFR"

Second, there is a convention in Revolution that when referring to  
properties (such as the hilite property of a button), it's customary  
(but not always required) to put "the" in front of it. This is one  
way for you, when reading a script, to recognize that you're dealing  
with a property of an object rather than a variable or some other  
kind of identifier. THus, a seasoned Revolutionary would probably  
write your line more like this:

if the hilite of button "AFR" then answer "You ticked AFR"

HTH

On Oct 3, 2005, at 4:06 AM, Thornton, John wrote:

> if hilite of Check "AFR" = "true" then answer "You ticked AFR"



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Oct  3 15:12:53 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 12:12:53 -0700
Subject: making a popup insert text.
In-Reply-To: <20051003121445.cf5mu83ri80ks4ww@webmail.armbase.com>
References: <20051003115944.9trg39mfwkkcsco4@webmail.armbase.com>
	<20051003121445.cf5mu83ri80ks4ww@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <BB14EE96-AC93-4C50-909C-FD20755B44C5@danshafer.com>


On Oct 3, 2005, at 4:14 AM, rev at armbase.com wrote:

> OK I've just realised that I should be using an option box.
>
> I take it I just script this llike a tolbar menu?

Not sure exactly what you mean by that question, but if you use a  
combo box (I assume that's what you meant and not an option box,  
which doesn't exist), you don't have to do any programming to get the  
user's selection to show up in the box portion of the object. That's  
built-in behavior.

Just set the alternative choices in the Property Inspector for the  
combo box and, voila!, done.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Mon Oct  3 15:19:25 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 12:19:25 -0700
Subject: revDocWiki
In-Reply-To: <BF80B2E5-F4DF-4C78-B4BC-C3025B8413C7@mac.com>
References: <p06200700bf0b270ae35a@[10.0.1.2]>
	<BF80B2E5-F4DF-4C78-B4BC-C3025B8413C7@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p06200703bf673300ab3c@[10.0.1.2]>

Hi Russ,

I hope you read the whole thread. The topic might have spread into 
threads with different subject lines. The topic got kicked around for 
a few weeks and hasn't been mentioned since. I don't know why. Seems 
like a good idea to me. Some subscribers were enthusiastic about it.

At least one revDocWiki has been attempted before. It didn't work 
out, for various reasons I don't know much about. I can't remember 
the name of the guy who previously attempted it. He either subscribes 
to this list, or people who know him subscribe.

I said on the old thread that the ideal revDocWiki would begin with 
the existing Rev docs, which would then be improved, edited, 
expanded, scripting examples added, and maybe links to mini-stacks 
that demonstrating various features and topics in more depth, and so 
on. It seemed to me that there would have to be some responsible 
editorial control over the Wiki, even if the editors were volunteers 
authorized by Rev, or authorized by some kind of panel of Rev gurus, 
or something.

Cheers,


Tim

>I'm fairly new to Revolution. I recently purchased Dreamcard and 
>while there are things that I really like about it, there have been 
>several issues with it that took way too much time for me to either 
>figure out work arounds on my own or search through the archives of 
>this list for solutions.
>
>I've found searching the list archives to be helpful, but time 
>consuming to actually read through different threads until one 
>person understood the question the other person was asking or 
>experienced the same malfunction. I started wondering if anyone had 
>a wiki where users could post helpful how-to's and sanity saving 
>work arounds. Not wanting to reinvent the wheel, I searched the list 
>archives and found this thread. It seems like others are interested 
>in doing the same thing but that nothing has yet materialized. (I 
>did find this 
>http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=SoftwareRevolution, 
>but felt that it wasn't quite what I was looking for.)
>
>So, I've set up a wiki at http://revdocwiki.wikispaces.org/ . I've 
>posted the 3 work arounds for the issues that have caused me the 
>most frustration up until now. Wikispaces.org is new to me, so I 
>can't vouch for them as a reliable space to host this information, 
>however, I figure it's worth trying it out.
>
>If anyone else is interested, please take a look and maybe post some 
>information there as well.
>
>===========================
>Russ Martin
>abecedarian at mac.com
>russell_martin at yahoo.com
>
>
>We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make 
>us love one another. -- Henry David Thoreau
>
>
>On Jul 25, 2005, at 5:43 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:
>
>>Someone asked earlier today, in re the hypothetical wiki that might 
>>be used to improve and expand the rev documentation: "What is Rev 
>>willing to kick in?" or something along those lines.
>>
>>An obvious first step would be for Rev to convert its current 
>>onboard docs into a format suitable for a wiki, and allow the 
>>wikiMaster use of those docs, without charge. Rev could retain the 
>>copyright, if it wanted to -- if they are copyrighted.
>>
>>Rev might want to abstain from any more obligations to the wiki, 
>>until the Rev people see how it's working out. Heck, the wikiMaster 
>>or wikiGroup might be able to charge Rev for the improved version 
>>of its own docs. However, it seems more civilized for Rev and the 
>>wikiMasters to reach some kind of agreement beforehand. That's more 
>>civilized than hostageware.
>>
>>Of course, this is all hypothetical, at best, really more like 
>>highly speculative.
>>
>>What would *I* be willing to do? Well, at least I can write. If a 
>>property, chunk, object, command, etc., might benefit from a 
>>verbose alternative to the usual terse dictionary entry, I would be 
>>willing to write verbose explanations of some items I understand 
>>well, and submit them to the wiki.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>
>>Tim
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-revolution mailing list
>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>subscription preferences:
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Oct  3 15:26:55 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 21:26:55 +0200
Subject: High-Lighting an Image Object
In-Reply-To: <434174C0.4050607@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20051003185942.9B817824E8B@mail.runrev.com>


> Eric Chatonet wrote:
> > Hi Dave,
> > 
> > Unfortunately :-( you can't set directly the borderColor of 
> an image:
> > 'set the borderColor of img 1 to red' don't lead to an 
> error but has  
> > no effect.

Then Richard wrote:

> Confirmed, and logged as Bug #3158:
> <http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3158>
> 

Hi Richard, Eric, dear list,

it's not a bug, it's a feature request since metacard 2.5 so it should be 
an enhancement, not a bug... I noticed this afternoon in the MC help from
MC 2.5 before I brought it up with the mouseenter script to help out.

Note also bugzilla 3144
http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3144

It's not just borders but also patterns...

The whole zilla is about this "graphic" issues like:
- allowed changed to wrong props in RPP (revpropertypalette) - there's no
patterns to fields
- no visual change in pattern borders for some controls

The RevDocs don?t explain everything and give IMOHO a bad tip (inheritance 
and rev-design wise).

But if there is one thing you can do, it's to make a "hiliter button".

it's completely unharmful and safe...

you put a button (not opaque) behind the image (or what have you 
that you need to hilite).

The technique is very easy... you wrap the image with the button's
frame which you hilite! You can make it any width or color to attract
some attention...

The technique is demonstrated in XOSMediaLib.rev on MonsieurX.com
with grid alignment, click-select image, see-trough hilite, side-list 
selection, scrolling in a pane (group), aligment on a grid, etc... 

I never thought of the animation though. 

http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=24

There's also a specialized function for it in GIM.rev (also on
MonsieurX.com)

Sorry, there's not much help, it's a control-gui-image library I use across
different stacks for my liveframeworkflow TAOO. (bugzilla 2449
http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=2449 to which Richard 
and Tuv contributed in an indirect way... ;)

This flashy type of hiliter was used in HyperCard to show "tab" and keyboard
navitation between fields in the late 80s... And it shows how to hilite
things 
like lists, buttons, fields, labels, images or players with just one button
or key...

Not that Richard's bug I not important but I believe the bugs demonstrated
in 3144 are far more reaching and encompass this "enhancement" assuming 
"patterns" are also impossible to affect to borders of controls... 

just my 2 cents on this lower level issue of borders in controls in rev

Deeper still is the crossplatform way of displaying graphics, patterns,
inklevels which maybe opengl could solve easily... Yes, im thinking of
rev controls in 3D openGL space... Your stacks could be fields of flowers
or real e-books... 

ciao
Xavier
what goes in a bugzilla anyway?



From rev at armbase.com  Mon Oct  3 16:03:04 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 21:03:04 +0100
Subject: making a popup insert text.
In-Reply-To: <BB14EE96-AC93-4C50-909C-FD20755B44C5@danshafer.com>
References: <20051003115944.9trg39mfwkkcsco4@webmail.armbase.com> 
	<20051003121445.cf5mu83ri80ks4ww@webmail.armbase.com> 
	<BB14EE96-AC93-4C50-909C-FD20755B44C5@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <gemini.insvp4006jbyv01yo.rev@armbase.com>

You wrote:

Hi Dan

> Not sure exactly what you mean by that question, but if you use a combo
> box (I assume that's what you meant and not an option box, which doesn't
> exist), you don't have to do any programming to get the user's selection
> to show up in the box portion of the object. That's built-in behavior.

It was an option menu, but a combo box will do.

What I want is a preference stack with a box or menu that has things on it
like
2 fields
3 fields
4 fields

Depending on the choice, it adds the script into a button. eg a ficticious
one.
on mouseup
copy 3 fields to stack xyz
end mouseup


IE it is a way of allowing the enduser to modify the function of a button
from a list of choices.

Cheers
Bob

> 
> Just set the alternative choices in the Property Inspector for the combo
> box and, voila!, done.
> 
> 
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information Product
> Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution:
> Software at the Speed of Thought"
>  From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing
> list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe,
> unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


From davecalk at intergate.com  Mon Oct  3 16:08:42 2005
From: davecalk at intergate.com (Dave Calkins)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 13:08:42 -0700
Subject: What is the difference between Msg Box window / Script Window /
	Field?
In-Reply-To: <20051003170006.4B6E4824F36@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051003170006.4B6E4824F36@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <cda6a27f9928b8a13f38aa78abed61f8@intergate.com>


On Oct 3, 2005, at 10:00 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

> Technically, there's nothing different between them - they are both 
> field
> objects. However what might be at work here is fonts - the message box 
> may
> use a different font than the script editor and it is the font that
> determines how special characters are displayed.
>
> Personally, unless you're only delivering for one platform, I'd suggest
> *not* button high ASCII characters (or control characters) in a 
> script, but
> rather use numToChar instead.
>

Thanks Ken,

I figured that the msg stack might be using a different font and 
attempted to use a script to get access to the font being used, but 
always came back with an error message. I have played with a ton of 
different fonts trying to figure out which one it could be if it is 
font related.

I have used the numToChar  in this instance, but  but for readability 
issues, to save on typing  numToChar (12) ,  numToChar (14)  over and 
over again, The chars as displayed in the msg box would be great for 
proof reading scripts. I use these Chars because they are used in MS 
Word for Page Break and Column Break (makes it easy to proof read, 
spell check and grammar check  vast libraries of text that I use to 
generate reports.)  etc. I thought it would be nice to insert one char 
in a script rather than the 14 or so chars I now use and have to covert 
to use in MS word for proofing text.. MS.doc files are cross compatible 
so I thought I should be alright using these in cross compatible apps.  
I have thought about using the File separator, Group separator, Record 
separator, and Unit separator numToChar 28 - 31 as well.

Would you please elaborate on your thoughts as to why I might have  
problems with using some of these in a cross platform application.

Thanks,

Dave Calkins


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Oct  3 16:11:10 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 13:11:10 -0700
Subject: High-Lighting an Image Object
In-Reply-To: <20051003185942.9B817824E8B@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051003185942.9B817824E8B@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4341905E.9000705@fourthworld.com>

MisterX wrote:
>>Confirmed, and logged as Bug #3158:
>><http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3158>
>
> 
> it's not a bug, it's a feature request since metacard 2.5 so it should be 
> an enhancement, not a bug... I noticed this afternoon in the MC help from
> MC 2.5 before I brought it up with the mouseenter script to help out.
> 
> Note also bugzilla 3144
> http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3144
> 
> It's not just borders but also patterns...

Yep, a little orthogonality with properties would go a long way for 
learnability/usability.

FWIW, there was a note here recently about making isometric-grid games. 
Unfortunately one of the most efficient methods -- assigning a 
backgroundPattern to a graphic object -- is not available because 
backgroundPatterns are drawn from the topleft of the card and not the 
topleft of the control.

So I just submited this request for an option to have backgroundPatterns 
drawn from the topleft of the control:
<http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3159>

If you have an interest in gaming or simulations, you might want to 
consider tossing a vote toward that.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From davecalk at intergate.com  Mon Oct  3 16:25:39 2005
From: davecalk at intergate.com (Dave Calkins)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 13:25:39 -0700
Subject: Which Library Script controls the Script field's Tabbing Behavior
Message-ID: <df9316966b86132824343efe4a93e10c@intergate.com>

I was wondering if any of you could tell me which library scripts 
controls the script window's tabbing behaviors. I would like to see if 
I can call some of the tabbing routines and apply them to some of my 
fields.

Thanks,

Dave Calkins



From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Oct  3 16:32:28 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 13:32:28 -0700
Subject: making a popup insert text.
In-Reply-To: <gemini.insvp4006jbyv01yo.rev@armbase.com>
References: <20051003115944.9trg39mfwkkcsco4@webmail.armbase.com>
	<20051003121445.cf5mu83ri80ks4ww@webmail.armbase.com>
	<BB14EE96-AC93-4C50-909C-FD20755B44C5@danshafer.com>
	<gemini.insvp4006jbyv01yo.rev@armbase.com>
Message-ID: <9EA9A73E-5AEE-4CAF-A280-E14B9C23F689@danshafer.com>

OK, so that's pretty straight-forward.

Once the user makes a choice from either an option menu or a combo  
box, you can get the choice:

In both cases, the current user choice is sored as the label of the  
object:

put the label of button "choicemaker1" into scriptLineToAdd


On Oct 3, 2005, at 1:03 PM, Bob Hartley wrote:

> You wrote:
>
> Hi Dan
>
>
>> Not sure exactly what you mean by that question, but if you use a  
>> combo
>> box (I assume that's what you meant and not an option box, which  
>> doesn't
>> exist), you don't have to do any programming to get the user's  
>> selection
>> to show up in the box portion of the object. That's built-in  
>> behavior.
>>
>
> It was an option menu, but a combo box will do.
>
> What I want is a preference stack with a box or menu that has  
> things on it
> like
> 2 fields
> 3 fields
> 4 fields
>
> Depending on the choice, it adds the script into a button. eg a  
> ficticious
> one.
> on mouseup
> copy 3 fields to stack xyz
> end mouseup
>
>
> IE it is a way of allowing the enduser to modify the function of a  
> button
> from a list of choices.
>
> Cheers
> Bob
>
>
>>
>> Just set the alternative choices in the Property Inspector for the  
>> combo
>> box and, voila!, done.
>>
>>
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Shafer, Information  
>> Product
>> Consultant and Author http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book,  
>> "Revolution:
>> Software at the Speed of Thought"
>>  From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ use-revolution  
>> mailing
>> list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to  
>> subscribe,
>> unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From Stgoldberg at aol.com  Mon Oct  3 16:32:52 2005
From: Stgoldberg at aol.com (Stgoldberg at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 16:32:52 EDT
Subject: Bizarre problem of disappearing pictures on reducing stack size
Message-ID: <128.66862c24.3072ef74@aol.com>

I've created a stack containing several hundred cards, each with a jpeg of   
a radiologic image.   In order to test students, each x-ray is unlabeled with 
arrows.   In order to provide a clue to the student, I've prepared a duplicate 
hidden picture on each card with the same picture, but with arrows pointing 
to   key areas to look at.   The duplicate picture is titled "arrows" and is 
set to be hidden, until the student clicks on a button titled "hint" which 
contains the script '"show image "arrows"'.   In order to create the duplicate 
picture, I copied and immediately pasted the original picture on the same site on 
the card.   I then opened the image editor and put in the arrows and updated 
the picture.

I recently phrased the question to the forum as to whether it was possible to 
minimize the stack size, since so many of the original pictures were resized 
right on the card. Apparently, just resizing the images and   locking the size 
and position on the card does not reduce the size of the stack. So, Phil 
Davis suggested an excellent brief way to do this through the following script:

on mouseUp
    -- first, prevent the image from expanding when reset
    set the lockLoc of img "myImage" to true

    -- reset the image's data
    put the imageData of img "myImage" into tData
    set the imageData of img "myImage" to tData
end mouseUp

In order to try this on the entire stack, I modified the script a bit 
(fortunately I made a backup stack first):

repeat with x = 1 to the number of cards
go to card x
repeat with y = 1 to the number of images
if there is an image y then 
put the imageData of img y into tData
set the imageData of img y to tData
end if
end repeat
end repeat

This indeed did significantly reduce the stack size.   However, all of the 
"arrows" pictures in the stack disappeared. They would no longer appear with the 
command   'show image "arrows"' or on turning on "Show Invisible Objects" 
from the view menu.   The "arrows" pictures could not be found, but strangely 
they still were listed in the Application Browser.   Does anyone have any 
suggestion as to how to account for this?   The only thing I can think of is that the 
original pictures can be found in the Finder.   The duplicated pictures, as 
always, cannot.   Perhaps this has something to do with it.   Thanks very much.
Steve Goldberg


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 16:34:52 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 06:34:52 +1000
Subject: Which Library Script controls the Script field's Tabbing
	Behavior
In-Reply-To: <df9316966b86132824343efe4a93e10c@intergate.com>
References: <df9316966b86132824343efe4a93e10c@intergate.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510031334h139e8019jda1249965641ad75@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/4/05, Dave Calkins <davecalk at intergate.com> wrote:
> I was wondering if any of you could tell me which library scripts
> controls the script window's tabbing behaviors. I would like to see if
> I can call some of the tabbing routines and apply them to some of my
> fields.
>

The basic script is in the script editor's main field. If you turn on
"Revolution UI elements in lists" inthe View menu, then go to the
Application Browser, you should see at least one stack called
"revScriptEditor " and a number. If you don't then, open a script
editor window and one will appear. This stack only has one card and if
you look at the objects on that card, you will see a field called
"script". Edit the script of that field and you'll find a tabKey
handler. It then calls "revFormatField" which is in the card script.

Cheers,
Sarah


From rjb at robelko.com  Mon Oct  3 16:47:48 2005
From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 22:47:48 +0200
Subject: What is the difference between Msg Box window / Script Window
 / 	Field?
In-Reply-To: <cda6a27f9928b8a13f38aa78abed61f8@intergate.com>
References: <20051003170006.4B6E4824F36@mail.runrev.com>
	<cda6a27f9928b8a13f38aa78abed61f8@intergate.com>
Message-ID: <a06110403bf67464a06b7@[192.168.1.102]>

>
>Thanks Ken,
>
>I figured that the msg stack might be using a different font and 
>attempted to use a script to get access to the font being used, but 
>always came back with an error message. I have played with a ton of 
>different fonts trying to figure out which one it could be if it is 
>font related.

try something like
answer the effective textfont of fld 1 of stack "message box"

>I have used the numToChar  in this instance, but  but for 
>readability issues, to save on typing  numToChar (12) ,  numToChar 
>(14)  over and over again, The chars as displayed in the msg box 
>would be great for proof reading scripts. I use these Chars because 
>they are used in MS Word for Page Break and Column Break (makes it 
>easy to proof read, spell check and grammar check  vast libraries of 
>text that I use to generate reports.)  etc. I thought it would be 
>nice to insert one char in a script rather than the 14 or so chars I 
>now use and have to covert to use in MS word for proofing text.. 
>MS.doc files are cross compatible so I thought I should be alright 
>using these in cross compatible apps.  I have thought about using 
>the File separator, Group separator, Record separator, and Unit 
>separator numToChar 28 - 31 as well.
>
>Would you please elaborate on your thoughts as to why I might have 
>problems with using some of these in a cross platform application.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Dave Calkins

What about using a local or global array for those special characters 
that you use regularly? For example

c[pagebreak] or c[pb] = numToChar(12)
c[columnbreak] or c[cb] = numToChar (14)
c[fileseparator] or c[fs] = ...

Yes, still more typing than a single character but it is readable and 
cross-platform compatible.

MS doc files are cross-compatible but only because all special 
characters are encoded. Create an RTF file of a Word doc with 
u-umlaut for example. You won't see this character in that file.

Robert


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 17:18:24 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 07:18:24 +1000
Subject: Bizarre problem of disappearing pictures on reducing stack size
In-Reply-To: <128.66862c24.3072ef74@aol.com>
References: <128.66862c24.3072ef74@aol.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510031418r79f83dedp5569b4d779740ddf@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/4/05, Stgoldberg at aol.com <Stgoldberg at aol.com> wrote:
> I've created a stack containing several hundred cards, each with a jpeg of
> a radiologic image.

snip

> This indeed did significantly reduce the stack size.   However, all of the
> "arrows" pictures in the stack disappeared. They would no longer appear with the
> command   'show image "arrows"' or on turning on "Show Invisible Objects"
> from the view menu.   The "arrows" pictures could not be found, but strangely
> they still were listed in the Application Browser.   Does anyone have any
> suggestion as to how to account for this?   The only thing I can think of is that the
> original pictures can be found in the Finder.   The duplicated pictures, as
> always, cannot.   Perhaps this has something to do with it.   Thanks very much.
> Steve Goldberg

Steve, if the images show up in the Application Browser, then I assume
they are still there. Perhaps they have moved off screen or have
shrunk to invisible sizes. Check the properties from the App Browser.
You could also try setting the rect of image "arrows" to the rect of
image "no arrows" and seeing if that made it come back into view.
Could it be a layering problem i.e. the image is appearing but it's
underneath the original image, so can't be seen?

HTH,
Sarah


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  3 18:46:07 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:46:07 -0700
Subject: How to check internet connection
In-Reply-To: <BF66AEA7.2CD37%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <BF6702BF.2E924%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Another version for the Mac (Ken's would not work for me)

function checkNetPing
  --Mac OSX 10.3.9 Rev 2.5.1  version of Ken Ray's script
  --  does a single ping and reports the status and elapsed time
  
  --> Make a new main stack
  --> paste this ENTIRE handler into the stack script, apply,
  -->      then type " checkNetPing()" into the msg box
  -->      and keep hitting the enterkey
  
  --using   ping   with switch c
  -->    -c 1  means one ping
  -->    -c 3  means 3 pings
  
  set the itemDelimiter to "%"
  put the ticks into startt
  put shell("ping  -c 1 google.com") into pingReport
  put the ticks into endd
  
  put last word of item 1 of pingReport into lostt   --> 0% packet loss
  if lostt=0 then;return ("UP  :-)  "     && endd - startt)
  else;               return ("Down   :-(  "&& endd - startt);end if

  -- caution:  if you use a numeric ip address
  --    and if 'Down', the handler takes 10 seconds to finish
  --    Using a named address may work better since
  --       if the internet is down,
  --       then your DNS server would
  --       most likely be down and
  --       you would get an immediate report = 'Down'
  
end checkNetPing

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 10/3/05 7:47 AM, "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

> On 10/3/05 8:22 AM, "MITTAL Pradeep Kumar" <PradeepKumar.MITTAL at insead.edu>
> wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>>  
>> I want to check from revolution desktop program to know whether the user
>> is connected to internet.
>>  
>> Could anyone please provide me the code or some guide to do this.


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct  3 19:00:33 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 18:00:33 -0500
Subject: Machine network names
Message-ID: <4341B811.30906@hyperactivesw.com>

I want to know the network name of a remote machine on a network. For a 
local machine, I can get "the address" and the first part of the address 
is the name I'm looking for.  But on a remote, mounted volume "the 
address" doesn't include its machine name. Any ideas? I only need this 
for Mac OS X, but it has to work for all but the earliest versions of OS X.

If I can't easily get the network name, then any unique identifying info 
would do. I considered getting the machine ID using Ken Ray's 
"stsGetSerialNumber" handler, but it only returns the serial numbers of 
local hard drives.

The only requirements are: it has to be a unique identifier, and it has 
to be obtainable both remotely and locally.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From irog at mac.com  Mon Oct  3 19:27:39 2005
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 17:27:39 -0600
Subject: ANN: MoireX Volume 3 v3.5
In-Reply-To: <20051003170007.AD47A824EE0@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051003170007.AD47A824EE0@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <EF5AE869-CAB7-4F48-BA94-D3F22E0E0EE0@mac.com>

I'd love to see this if I could find a Mac or Rev stack version???

Thanks, Roger


On Oct 3, 2005, at 11:00 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com  
wrote:

> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 18:02:07 +0200
> From: "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu>
> Subject: ANN: MoireX Volume 3 v3.5
> To: "'How to use Revolution'" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <20051003153457.BC871824F05 at mail.runrev.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Oct  3 20:26:24 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 19:26:24 -0500
Subject: What is the difference between Msg Box window / Script Window
 / Field?
In-Reply-To: <cda6a27f9928b8a13f38aa78abed61f8@intergate.com>
Message-ID: <BF673660.2CD8F%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/3/05 3:08 PM, "Dave Calkins" <davecalk at intergate.com> wrote:

> Would you please elaborate on your thoughts as to why I might have
> problems with using some of these in a cross platform application.

No, not in a cross-platform application, but working with the scripts in
IDEs in multiple platforms. For example, if you use an old HyperCard
"option-L" character, this is ASCII 194 on Mac, but ASCII 172 in Windows. So
if you actually type the Option-L character in the script editor on a Mac,
then take the stack to Windows and open the script editor, it may very well
show the Windows character for ASCII 194 (a capital A with a circumflex over
it).

This, BTW, is also the reason not to use combination chars (like
greater-than-or-equal-to (option->) or not-equals (option-=) in scripts on
the Mac because when they get to windows they will be different characters
and may prevent your script from compiling.

You can use macToISO or ISOtoMac to help make the translation between
platforms in your *application*, but the scripts and how they are displayed
in Rev are up to Rev on the host platform (not you).


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Oct  3 20:29:28 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 19:29:28 -0500
Subject: How to check internet connection
In-Reply-To: <BF6702BF.2E924%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BF673718.2CD90%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/3/05 5:46 PM, "Jim Ault" <JimAultWins at yahoo.com> wrote:

> function checkNetPing
>   --Mac OSX 10.3.9 Rev 2.5.1  version of Ken Ray's script
>   --  does a single ping and reports the status and elapsed time

Thanks, Jim!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  3 21:49:52 2005
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 18:49:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: stack position and flicker
In-Reply-To: <BF66B19C.2CD3C%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <20051004014952.17510.qmail@web33014.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



--- Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

> On 10/3/05 12:42 AM, "Erik Hansen"
> <erikhans08 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > --- Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:
> >
> >> It's better if you just change the rect of
> the
> >> stack instead of changing the
> >> height (which works from the vertical center
> of
> >> an object) and then setting its top.
> >
> > you must have developed a very good
> > sense of rectangular layout. setting the
> > height, width, top, & left of objects
> > makes it easier for me to visualize them
> > and to change things when needed.
> 
> True, and you can do this with card objects
> under lockScreen so you don't
> see the adjustments - but unfortunately that
> doesn't work for stacks - only
> changing the rect will make it appear not to
> jump around.

put 10 into tLeft
put 40 into tTop
put 400 into tWidth
put 200 into tHeight

set the rect of stack tStack to \
tLeft,tTop,tLeft+tWidth,tTop+tHeight

best of both worlds!

Erik Hansen

erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Oct  3 23:18:49 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 05:18:49 +0200
Subject: MoireX Volume 3 v3.5
In-Reply-To: <EF5AE869-CAB7-4F48-BA94-D3F22E0E0EE0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20051004025134.84D83824E3C@mail.runrev.com>


Again, I don't have a mac! 
And I cant teach you to read either

that web page which you stripped said

[Download] updated to version 3.5 - for RunRev. 
----------------------------------------------

please try a "little" harder...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Roger Guay
> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 1:28 AM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: ANN: MoireX Volume 3 v3.5
> 
> I'd love to see this if I could find a Mac or Rev stack version???
> 
> Thanks, Roger
> 
> 
> On Oct 3, 2005, at 11:00 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com
> wrote:
> 
> > Message: 15
> > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 18:02:07 +0200
> > From: "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu>
> > Subject: ANN: MoireX Volume 3 v3.5
> > To: "'How to use Revolution'" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> > Message-ID: <20051003153457.BC871824F05 at mail.runrev.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From briany at qldlearning.com  Tue Oct  4 00:04:14 2005
From: briany at qldlearning.com (Brian Yennie)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 21:04:14 -0700
Subject: MoireX Volume 3 v3.5
In-Reply-To: <20051004025134.84D83824E3C@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051004025134.84D83824E3C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <116a970df7da2f4472223dd753d490fa@qldlearning.com>

Xavier,

I believe he was hoping for a stack, as opposed to standalone. The link 
you refer to below leads to a Windows standalone, which I think Roger 
did in fact "try". Thus, the request for a Mac version *or* a stack. It 
seems to me Roger can read just fine.

>
> Again, I don't have a mac!
> And I cant teach you to read either
>
> that web page which you stripped said
>
> [Download] updated to version 3.5 - for RunRev.
> ----------------------------------------------
>
> please try a "little" harder...
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>> Roger Guay
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 1:28 AM
>> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Subject: ANN: MoireX Volume 3 v3.5
>>
>> I'd love to see this if I could find a Mac or Rev stack version???
>>
>> Thanks, Roger
>>
>>
>> On Oct 3, 2005, at 11:00 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Message: 15
>>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 18:02:07 +0200
>>> From: "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu>
>>> Subject: ANN: MoireX Volume 3 v3.5
>>> To: "'How to use Revolution'" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>> Message-ID: <20051003153457.BC871824F05 at mail.runrev.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
>> your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From SupermanSlyr at aol.com  Tue Oct  4 00:31:12 2005
From: SupermanSlyr at aol.com (SupermanSlyr at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 00:31:12 EDT
Subject: AT&T? 
Message-ID: <79.4f129b38.30735f90@aol.com>

Hey everyone, I would like to start by thanking all of you for your  time. 
All the information you have given me has helped make my adjustment  to 
Revolution a lot easier. So for that you all have my thanks. Revolution  seems to have 
a lot of possibilities as far as deciding what project to  undertake. Which 
brings me to a specific question I was wondering about. How do  you use better 
voices with your programs besides using  Microsoft's built in text to speech 
engine? 
 
I've seen AT&T's, but I'm sure if I use anything like that, or  anything else 
for that matter; I'll have to pay a bundle for  licensing to use that engine 
wont I? Or is there  other options to take? Would it even be possible to use 
better  sounding voices with Revolution? I've seen a lot of really realistic 
test 2  speech online sites. Like that 
"Site pal" thing or something like that(?).
 
 I've even seen a lot of programs using the AT&T voices too. And  that site 
pal place charges a membership fee so you can use t on your site. But  I just 
want the user to understand what the computer says. At this point it  just kind 
of sounds like Choobaca from Star Wars....
 
Any help is always appreciated.   


From davis.phil at comcast.net  Tue Oct  4 01:55:13 2005
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 22:55:13 -0700
Subject: AT&T?
In-Reply-To: <79.4f129b38.30735f90@aol.com>
References: <79.4f129b38.30735f90@aol.com>
Message-ID: <43421941.4050207@comcast.net>

Welcome, SS!

SupermanSlyr at aol.com wrote:
> Hey everyone, I would like to start by thanking all of you for your  time. 
> All the information you have given me has helped make my adjustment  to 
> Revolution a lot easier. So for that you all have my thanks. Revolution  seems to have 
> a lot of possibilities as far as deciding what project to  undertake. Which 
> brings me to a specific question I was wondering about. How do  you use better 
> voices with your programs besides using  Microsoft's built in text to speech 
> engine? 

I haven't worked with any Windows voices that *don't* use the MS SAPI 
engine, but you don't have to go far to get MUCH better results than you 
get with standard WIN or Mac voices. (I personally think it's mostly the 
quality of the voices, rather than the capability of the speech engines, 
that makes out-of-the-box speech sound so poor on either platform.)


> I've seen AT&T's, but I'm sure if I use anything like that, or  anything else 
> for that matter; I'll have to pay a bundle for  licensing to use that engine 
> wont I? Or is there  other options to take?  Would it even be possible to use
> better  sounding voices with Revolution? I've seen a lot of really realistic 
> test 2  speech online sites. Like that 
> "Site pal" thing or something like that(?).

Yes, you can use 3rd party voices with Rev. Actually, the real question 
is whether or not they'll work with SAPI (on Win at least). In my 
experience, Rev has been able to play any SAPI-compliant voice. Fees 
vary widely, starting at around $30 USD for personal-use licensing of 
good-quality downloadable voices at cepstral.com.


>  I've even seen a lot of programs using the AT&T voices too. And  that site 
> pal place charges a membership fee so you can use t on your site. But  I just 
> want the user to understand what the computer says. At this point it  just kind 
> of sounds like Choobaca from Star Wars....
>  
> Any help is always appreciated.

Here's a starting point for more TTS voice sources:
http://mail.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2005-September/066571.html


Phil Davis





From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Tue Oct  4 03:35:39 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 00:35:39 -0700
Subject: ReplaceText and Backslash
Message-ID: <BF677EDB.37B9D%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Hello,

I have a string that comes from Applescript and it has a bunch of /" in it.

It looks like this

Script id=\"7\" name=\"New Script 2\" includeInMenu=\"True\"

I would like to replace the Backslash Quote string with just Quote. But this
does not work.

put  replaceText (theString, backslash & quote, quote)


Any ideas  why?

Thanks

Todd

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Oct  4 03:47:24 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 09:47:24 +0200
Subject: ReplaceText and Backslash
In-Reply-To: <BF677EDB.37B9D%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
References: <BF677EDB.37B9D%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <2721CEFA-941A-4C7B-8A9E-D32949B2644C@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Todd,

Seems you want to remove backslashes. So:

replace backslash with empty in theString
put theString

Hope this helps

Le 4 oct. 05 ? 09:35, Todd Geist a ?crit :

> I have a string that comes from Applescript and it has a bunch  
> of /" in it.
>
> It looks like this
>
> Script id=\"7\" name=\"New Script 2\" includeInMenu=\"True\"
>
> I would like to replace the Backslash Quote string with just Quote.  
> But this
> does not work.
>
> put  replaceText (theString, backslash & quote, quote)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Tue Oct  4 03:50:51 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 09:50:51 +0200
Subject: ReplaceText and Backslash
In-Reply-To: <BF677EDB.37B9D%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <OFD2B587A0.1DF8C2F9-ONC1257090.002AD9F9-C1257090.002ADBB2@deutsche-boerse.com>

try to "escape" the backslash first.

put replacetext( fld 1, backslash&backslash & quote , quote ) into fld 1

which is not necessary with

replace backslash & quote with quote in fld 1

cheers
---------------------=---------------------
Xavier 

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 04/10/2005 09:35:39:

> Hello,
> 
> I have a string that comes from Applescript and it has a bunch of /" in 
it.
> 
> It looks like this
> 
> Script id=\"7\" name=\"New Script 2\" includeInMenu=\"True\"
> 
> I would like to replace the Backslash Quote string with just Quote. But 
this
> does not work.
> 
> put  replaceText (theString, backslash & quote, quote)
> 
> 
> Any ideas  why?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Todd
> 
> -- 
> 
> Todd Geist
> ______________________________________
> g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Tue Oct  4 04:36:24 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 01:36:24 -0700
Subject: Display an Image from Clipboard on a Card
Message-ID: <BF678D18.37BB4%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Hello,

How do I display an image from clipboard on a card?

I know I need to use

       the clipboarddata["image"]

But I don't know what to do with it

Any help would be appreciated

Thanks

Todd


-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Tue Oct  4 04:43:27 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 01:43:27 -0700
Subject: ReplaceText and Backslash
In-Reply-To: <OFD2B587A0.1DF8C2F9-ONC1257090.002AD9F9-C1257090.002ADBB2@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <BF678EBF.37BB5%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

THANKS!  that did it


On 10/4/05 12:50 AM, "xbury.cs at clearstream.com" <xbury.cs at clearstream.com>
wrote:

> try to "escape" the backslash first.
> 
> put replacetext( fld 1, backslash&backslash & quote , quote ) into fld 1

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Tue Oct  4 04:43:55 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 10:43:55 +0200
Subject: Display an Image from Clipboard on a Card
In-Reply-To: <BF678D18.37BB4%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <OF22979E3A.91E3B58F-ONC1257090.002FE170-C1257090.002FB77C@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Todd,

All you need to do is create an image control, and put the 
clipboarddata["image"] into it

cheers
---------------------=---------------------
Xavier 


use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 04/10/2005 10:36:24:

> Hello,
> 
> How do I display an image from clipboard on a card?
> 
> I know I need to use
> 
>        the clipboarddata["image"]
> 
> But I don't know what to do with it
> 
> Any help would be appreciated
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Todd
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Todd Geist
> ______________________________________
> g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From rev at armbase.com  Tue Oct  4 05:42:45 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:42:45 +0100
Subject: change the size of the box in a checkbox
Message-ID: <20051004104245.f4cexvyvkck4swgk@webmail.armbase.com>

Hi All
I would like to make the box in a checkbox bigger. In the IDE I can make the
checkbox bigger, but this only increases the boundary and the text area but not
the   check section.

Is this possible?

I suppose I could always make a group with a label area and two buttons, one
blank and one with a X on it, and then resize these and use a hide show script,
however, is there an easy way? :-)

Cheers
Bob



From John.Thornton at gb.mahle.com  Tue Oct  4 06:10:51 2005
From: John.Thornton at gb.mahle.com (Thornton, John)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 11:10:51 +0100
Subject: Return key not working properly.
Message-ID: <2AC7D7ECB6CC2C4D912B478A066E802270C9AF@ukcoswnhm0002.uk.cosworth-technology.local>

Anyone that saw my last post will know that I am a beginner so it could be that I'm missing something really basic, but I don't think so.  When I try to edit a "Script" for a stack/card/button, the "Return" key only works intermittently!  It frequently seems to turn itself off totally (within the script window).  I run Linux Redhat 7.3.  Has anyone had a similar problem?  

Regards

John Thornton
MAHLE Powertrain Ltd.
Design Analysis

Costin House, St. James Mill Road, Northampton, United Kingdom, NN5 5TZ
Phone: +44 870 157 3109  Fax: +44 870 157 3103

john.thornton at gb.mahle.com   http://www.mahle.com




From Mike at Doub.com  Tue Oct  4 06:24:13 2005
From: Mike at Doub.com (Mike Doub)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 06:24:13 -0400
Subject: Looking for Implementation Advice
Message-ID: <002501c5c8cd$c48441e0$6400a8c0@fusion>

Hello List,

I am looking for implementation advice on how best to solve a problem
displaying a graphical representation of a matrix of data.  

I have a variable that is set up with each line representing a row of
information, and each item of the line a value.  There are a variable number
of lines and values.  I typically expect about 50 lines and 24 values.

Something like this (as you can see I am thinking of using arrays with split
and combine):

Label1|0,0,1,3,5,6...
Label2|1,4,6,7,2,0...
Label3|5,4,4,3,-1,1...
.
.
.

The graphic that I was envisioning was a group of small squares that would
contain colors, green for 0 and higher, orange for -1, red for -2 add below.
The label would be next to each row of boxes.  I would also like the user to
be able to hover over one of the boxes and be able to see the actual value.

I have multiple data sets to be displayed. Initially I was thinking that I
would have one of this graphic per card, but having this as part of a
scrolling field would be nice.  Anyway let's keep it simple and just assume
that it will be on each card.

I am a bit stumped at how to:
1) Build this graphical thing dynamically to accommodate difference numbers
of rows and columns
2) How to connect the appearance of each box to the data, both to set the
color and to get the hovering effect.

I am totally open to suggestions at this point in how to better layout the
data and to build this graphical control.  

Thank you in advance for pointing me in a direction.

Regards,
   Mike


 




From chandapukiran at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 06:37:54 2005
From: chandapukiran at gmail.com (chandapu kiran kumar)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 16:07:54 +0530
Subject: Looking for Implementation Advice
In-Reply-To: <002501c5c8cd$c48441e0$6400a8c0@fusion>
References: <002501c5c8cd$c48441e0$6400a8c0@fusion>
Message-ID: <dfa2c29e0510040337h3cd4e0der311a1e99db12b690@mail.gmail.com>

hello list,
i want to give only one advance i.e first u select both rows or coulumns
then after u may give them in colour i.e very easy okay that u for your
quoery bye;
kiran kumar
general operator

 On 10/4/05, Mike Doub <Mike at doub.com> wrote:
>
> Hello List,
>
> I am looking for implementation advice on how best to solve a problem
> displaying a graphical representation of a matrix of data.
>
> I have a variable that is set up with each line representing a row of
> information, and each item of the line a value. There are a variable
> number
> of lines and values. I typically expect about 50 lines and 24 values.
>
> Something like this (as you can see I am thinking of using arrays with
> split
> and combine):
>
> Label1|0,0,1,3,5,6...
> Label2|1,4,6,7,2,0...
> Label3|5,4,4,3,-1,1...
> .
> .
> .
>
> The graphic that I was envisioning was a group of small squares that would
> contain colors, green for 0 and higher, orange for -1, red for -2 add
> below.
> The label would be next to each row of boxes. I would also like the user
> to
> be able to hover over one of the boxes and be able to see the actual
> value.
>
> I have multiple data sets to be displayed. Initially I was thinking that I
> would have one of this graphic per card, but having this as part of a
> scrolling field would be nice. Anyway let's keep it simple and just assume
> that it will be on each card.
>
> I am a bit stumped at how to:
> 1) Build this graphical thing dynamically to accommodate difference
> numbers
> of rows and columns
> 2) How to connect the appearance of each box to the data, both to set the
> color and to get the hovering effect.
>
> I am totally open to suggestions at this point in how to better layout the
> data and to build this graphical control.
>
> Thank you in advance for pointing me in a direction.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From chandapukiran at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 06:47:38 2005
From: chandapukiran at gmail.com (chandapu kiran kumar)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 16:17:38 +0530
Subject: Looking for Implementation Advice
In-Reply-To: <dfa2c29e0510040337h3cd4e0der311a1e99db12b690@mail.gmail.com>
References: <002501c5c8cd$c48441e0$6400a8c0@fusion>
	<dfa2c29e0510040337h3cd4e0der311a1e99db12b690@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dfa2c29e0510040347g70e64fc5o33424d12b027969e@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/4/05, chandapu kiran kumar <chandapukiran at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> hello list,
> i want to give only one advance i.e first u select both rows or coulumns
> then after u may give them in colour i.e very easy okay that u for your
> quoery bye;
> kiran kumar
> general operator
>
>  On 10/4/05, Mike Doub <Mike at doub.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello List,
> >
> > I am looking for implementation advice on how best to solve a problem
> > displaying a graphical representation of a matrix of data.
> >
> > I have a variable that is set up with each line representing a row of
> > information, and each item of the line a value. There are a variable
> > number
> > of lines and values. I typically expect about 50 lines and 24 values.
> >
> > Something like this (as you can see I am thinking of using arrays with
> > split
> > and combine):
> >
> > Label1|0,0,1,3,5,6...
> > Label2|1,4,6,7,2,0...
> > Label3|5,4,4,3,-1,1...
> > .
> > .
> > .
> >
> > The graphic that I was envisioning was a group of small squares that
> > would
> > contain colors, green for 0 and higher, orange for -1, red for -2 add
> > below.
> > The label would be next to each row of boxes. I would also like the user
> > to
> > be able to hover over one of the boxes and be able to see the actual
> > value.
> >
> > I have multiple data sets to be displayed. Initially I was thinking that
> > I
> > would have one of this graphic per card, but having this as part of a
> > scrolling field would be nice. Anyway let's keep it simple and just
> > assume
> > that it will be on each card.
> >
> > I am a bit stumped at how to:
> > 1) Build this graphical thing dynamically to accommodate difference
> > numbers
> > of rows and columns
> > 2) How to connect the appearance of each box to the data, both to set
> > the
> > color and to get the hovering effect.
> >
> > I am totally open to suggestions at this point in how to better layout
> > the
> > data and to build this graphical control.
> >
> > Thank you in advance for pointing me in a direction.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
>
>


From chandapukiran at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 06:50:01 2005
From: chandapukiran at gmail.com (chandapu kiran kumar)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 16:20:01 +0530
Subject: Return key not working properly.
In-Reply-To: <2AC7D7ECB6CC2C4D912B478A066E802270C9AF@ukcoswnhm0002.uk.cosworth-technology.local>
References: <2AC7D7ECB6CC2C4D912B478A066E802270C9AF@ukcoswnhm0002.uk.cosworth-technology.local>
Message-ID: <dfa2c29e0510040350pd28414cuea2a4109f79e530f@mail.gmail.com>

Hello mr john i had read your message but i cannot help because i had not
faced any problem like that if i have any option for your questions answer
then i willl help u.
 okay
 bye
 kiran kumar
general operator


 On 10/4/05, Thornton, John <John.Thornton at gb.mahle.com> wrote:
>
> Anyone that saw my last post will know that I am a beginner so it could be
> that I'm missing something really basic, but I don't think so. When I try to
> edit a "Script" for a stack/card/button, the "Return" key only works
> intermittently! It frequently seems to turn itself off totally (within the
> script window). I run Linux Redhat 7.3. Has anyone had a similar problem?
>
> Regards
>
> John Thornton
> MAHLE Powertrain Ltd.
> Design Analysis
>
> Costin House, St. James Mill Road, Northampton, United Kingdom, NN5 5TZ
> Phone: +44 870 157 3109 Fax: +44 870 157 3103
>
> john.thornton at gb.mahle.com http://www.mahle.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From chandapukiran at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 06:53:47 2005
From: chandapukiran at gmail.com (chandapu kiran kumar)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 16:23:47 +0530
Subject: Display an Image from Clipboard on a Card
In-Reply-To: <OF22979E3A.91E3B58F-ONC1257090.002FE170-C1257090.002FB77C@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <BF678D18.37BB4%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
	<OF22979E3A.91E3B58F-ONC1257090.002FE170-C1257090.002FB77C@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <dfa2c29e0510040353p76eee3a1o81b6705ce153143a@mail.gmail.com>

Hello every boyd or one
This is kiran kumar I had read your problem okay u r facing like problem
because i think u r not using microsoft word so please use mircosoft word
that will be help your for clip board or image setting if any other quoery
then please send your quiry okay.
 kiran kumar
general operator


 On 10/4/05, xbury.cs at clearstream.com <xbury.cs at clearstream.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Todd,
>
> All you need to do is create an image control, and put the
> clipboarddata["image"] into it
>
> cheers
> ---------------------=---------------------
> Xavier
>
>
> use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 04/10/2005 10:36:24:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > How do I display an image from clipboard on a card?
> >
> > I know I need to use
> >
> > the clipboarddata["image"]
> >
> > But I don't know what to do with it
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Todd
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Todd Geist
> > ______________________________________
> > g e i s t i n t e r a c t i v e
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
>
> IMPORTANT MESSAGE
>
> Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
> International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
> this message.
>
> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
> legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
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From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 07:05:47 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 21:05:47 +1000
Subject: change the size of the box in a checkbox
In-Reply-To: <20051004104245.f4cexvyvkck4swgk@webmail.armbase.com>
References: <20051004104245.f4cexvyvkck4swgk@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510040405q53185295n5e1d3bdf45f23003@mail.gmail.com>

> I would like to make the box in a checkbox bigger. In the IDE I can make the
> checkbox bigger, but this only increases the boundary and the text area but not
> the   check section.
>
> Is this possible?
>
> I suppose I could always make a group with a label area and two buttons, one
> blank and one with a X on it, and then resize these and use a hide show script,
> however, is there an easy way? :-)
>

You can't change the size of the built-in checkbox as this is taken
from the system, so you will have to make your own. However you won't
need a group, just a button with two different icons that show checked
or plain. Set the textAlign of the button to "right" and the icon will
appear at the side of the label.

Cheers,
Sarah


From claudi at fiberworld.nl  Tue Oct  4 07:14:26 2005
From: claudi at fiberworld.nl (Claudi Cornaz)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 13:14:26 +0200
Subject: probable bug of fields
Message-ID: <0638E1E6-34C8-11DA-8A15-000A959BA7DC@fiberworld.nl>

Hi all,

I found some strange behaviour in fields which I think is a bug.

Create a new field with the dontWrap and the hScrollbar both set to 
true.
Now type in some text till the hScroll will have started to scroll.
Select most of the text and do menu "cut".
Wow the hScroll is still active.
Now you can even select the rest of the text and hit backspace.
The field will be empty by now, but you can still scroll horizontaly.
Ugly, but mainly cosmetic.

Now check on the formattedWidth of the field.
It will be more than the width of the field, but there is no text in 
the field, it's empty.
This one is nasty. It means the formattedWidth is not always correct
and can't be trusted. From the moment some text has been cut, the 
formattedWidth will be wrong
till newly typed in text will exceed the old formattedWidth. From then 
on it's correct again.

Can someone confirm this?
I use the latest build of 2.6 and OS 10.2.8

Claudi



From claudi.c at fiberworld.nl  Tue Oct  4 07:39:05 2005
From: claudi.c at fiberworld.nl (Claudi Cornaz)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 13:39:05 +0200
Subject: can't get keyboard shortcuts to work
Message-ID: <77FB67B7-34CB-11DA-8A15-000A959BA7DC@fiberworld.nl>

Hi all,

Probably I am missing something quite obvious, but I can't get my menu 
shortcuts to work.
In the menubuilder I made a menubar with different menu shortcuts.
In the menu I have the usual menuPick handler with a switch statement 
like

on menuPick pItem
switch pItem
... ...

However when the menu gets invoked with a keyboard shortcut pItem is 
always empty,
so ofcourse none of the cases in the switch ever gets triggerd. (the 
menuPick handler gets called correctly
but no parameter is passed)

Should keyboard shortcuts be handled differently or is there some 
propertie I should set that I am not aware of?

I am using runrev 2.6 and  OS10.2.8

Thanks a lot in advance

Claudi



From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 07:43:39 2005
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 19:43:39 +0800
Subject: change the size of the box in a checkbox
In-Reply-To: <20051004104245.f4cexvyvkck4swgk@webmail.armbase.com>
References: <20051004104245.f4cexvyvkck4swgk@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <f73a98160510040443o6111537em10faf14efc6126de@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/4/05, rev at armbase.com <rev at armbase.com> wrote:
>
> Hi All
> I would like to make the box in a checkbox bigger. In the IDE I can make
> the
> checkbox bigger, but this only increases the boundary and the text area
> but not
> the check section.
>
> Is this possible?
>
> I suppose I could always make a group with a label area and two buttons,
> one
> blank and one with a X on it, and then resize these and use a hide show
> script,
> however, is there an easy way? :-)
>
> Cheers
> Bob


Much better way is to create three larger images (.gif) that will be needed
for the different states the button can have. Open the Property Inspector,
select a button and check out 'Icons & Borders'. What you need is images for
the first three; Icon, Hilite Icon and Disabled Icon.

For the Mac you'd use GraphicConverter to create them, on Windows, any
graphics program that can save to .gif. It's not that hard as you are only
dealing with 3 colours and very basic graphics, probably 15 to 20 min if
it's your first try.

The three images you need to create are, a black box = Icon, a gray box =
Disabled Icon, a black box with a black X = Hilite Icon. When it comes to
save, select 'Save As...' , select the GIF as the format and that should
automatically append .gif to the name you choose.

Start of by trying a 15 x 15 pixel image at 72 ppi. I think the standard one
is about 10 x 10 (100 total area) so 15 x 15 (225 total area) will appear at
least twice as big.

Once you have created the images you need to import them into your stack
'Image Library'. If you haven't done that before go to the Rev 'Development'
menu and select 'Image Library'. Select the 'Image' tab. Select 'This Stack
- <your stack name>' from the option button. This should enable the 'Import
File...' button at the bottom of the window. When selected you should have
the opportunity to navigate to wherever you saved the files you created.

Once all three images are in the Image Library, create a Check Box. Go to
'Icon & Boarders' and click on the little 'wand' at the right of the
editable fields - select the appropriate icon for the first three fields.
You'll need to select 'This Stack' from the option button.

Resize the button as necessary. Once done you should be able to click on it
and the X will appear, and if you disable it (Message Box or Property
Inspector) it will go to an empty gray box. If you don't like what you've
done, resetting the icon numbers to zero will default back to normal.

HTH
PS I wouldn't have been so verbose if it was easy to find how to import
images into the Image Library in the Help Docs, but several 'Filters' and
'Searches' didn't reveal what I know is there.


From rev at armbase.com  Tue Oct  4 09:48:39 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 14:48:39 +0100
Subject: change the size of the box in a checkbox
In-Reply-To: <f73a98160510040443o6111537em10faf14efc6126de@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20051004104245.f4cexvyvkck4swgk@webmail.armbase.com>
	<f73a98160510040443o6111537em10faf14efc6126de@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051004144839.th0k11klog4kgcg0@webmail.armbase.com>

Quoting Kay C Lan <lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com>:

Hi Kay.

This is a fantastic description. I was not aware of the image library 
method nor
the  Icon section. Only been using rev for fun for about 2 years but 
starting to
do something serious now (well 10 hours a week).

I can definitely go a long way with thins in so many ways. I also have Chip's
Button Gadget Pro so can make buttons that way as well. Also got Graphic
Converter (no mac at present) and Photoshop7(work computer) so graphics 
are not
a problem.

As for being Verbose. Ohh that is far better for me. ;-)

Best Regards
Bob; Sunny Scotland

SNIP perfect desription on how to do it.
> HTH
> PS I wouldn't have been so verbose if it was easy to find how to import
> images into the Image Library in the Help Docs, but several 'Filters' and
> 'Searches' didn't reveal what I know is there.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>





From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  4 10:33:36 2005
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 07:33:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Display an Image from Clipboard on a Card
In-Reply-To: <20051004102528.7C8E2824FB1@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20051004143337.43964.qmail@web40502.mail.yahoo.com>

on Tue, 04 Oct 2005 
Todd Geist wrote:

> How do I display an image from clipboard on a card?
> I know I need to use
> the clipboarddata["image"]
> But I don't know what to do with it

Hi Todd,

Look in this message:
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2005-March/053867.html>

First, copy (in windows explorer) the image file.

You could click with the right button of the mouse
over the image file and select "Copy" from the
contextual menu.
 
The clipboarddata now has the path to the image: 
"C://My Documents/MyImage.gif"

The function the clipboard in RR reports the 
clipboard as empty, but the function the 
clipboarddata returns the path of the image.

Put this script in a button:

on mouseup
put "binfile:" & the clipboarddata into zxcv
set the imageNew of this stack to url zxcv
create image
set the text of last image to the imageNew of this
stack
set the imageNew of this stack to empty
end mouseup

An advantage of this script, over pasting an image 
directly from the clipboard, is that images
like jpg, gif and png, stay compressed, occuping
less space in the stack.

al


Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Oct  4 10:40:09 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 10:40:09 -0400
Subject: Return key not working properly.
In-Reply-To: <2AC7D7ECB6CC2C4D912B478A066E802270C9AF@ukcoswnhm0002.uk.cosworth-technology.local>
References: <2AC7D7ECB6CC2C4D912B478A066E802270C9AF@ukcoswnhm0002.uk.cosworth-technology.local>
Message-ID: <18d882cca94a9efbdb82ca50c5a6cf25@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 4, 2005, at 6:10 AM, Thornton, John wrote:

> Anyone that saw my last post will know that I am a beginner so it 
> could be that I'm missing something really basic, but I don't think 
> so.  When I try to edit a "Script" for a stack/card/button, the 
> "Return" key only works intermittently!  It frequently seems to turn 
> itself off totally (within the script window).  I run Linux Redhat 
> 7.3.  Has anyone had a similar problem?

I've seen exactly the same thing recently in OSX, though I have no idea 
why. It is like the script window just begins ignoring the return key. 
A couple of times, I've switched away from Rev and tested the return 
key in another application, just to ensure that my keyboard was 
working. I don't remember this particular problem in earlier versions 
of Rev, and I've used it since the original beta.

Maybe something in the frontscripts? I'll check that if I see it again.

OSX.3.9, Rev 2.6
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From irog at mac.com  Tue Oct  4 10:57:22 2005
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 08:57:22 -0600
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 25, Issue 7
In-Reply-To: <20051004102528.7C8E2824FB1@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051004102528.7C8E2824FB1@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <2F17BA57-6F42-420E-8611-E8248C4B014C@mac.com>

That's OK, Xavier . . . I've lost all interest in it!!

Roger


On Oct 4, 2005, at 4:25 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com  
wrote:

> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 05:18:49 +0200
> From: "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu>
> Subject: RE: MoireX Volume 3 v3.5
> To: "'How to use Revolution'" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <20051004025134.84D83824E3C at mail.runrev.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Again, I don't have a mac!
> And I cant teach you to read either
>
> that web page which you stripped said
>
> [Download] updated to version 3.5 - for RunRev.
> ----------------------------------------------
>
> please try a "little" harder...
>



From revlist at cableone.net  Tue Oct  4 12:17:30 2005
From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 10:17:30 -0600
Subject: Unix scripting help
In-Reply-To: <f99b5286050929134122678ec1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C92536A9-16AB-40C8-9762-521F5BFD9BF5@cableone.net>
	<f99b5286050929134122678ec1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7700E084-DA29-4CFF-96F3-04DDEE4E89BF@cableone.net>

Sarah,

Thank you for this.  I think I'm getting closer using your little  
trick, but my standalone still hangs at that point.  I've tried it  
with "exit" and without with the same results.  I just don't get why  
this is happening.  When I create a script file and run it from  
Terminal, it works as expected.  When I run the script from within  
Rev it hangs.  Do you (or anyone for that matter) have any other ideas?

Thanks.


On Sep 29, 2005, at 2:41 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>> I've got an installer in Rev that has to start a process under OS X
>> using the shell function.  I'm able to get the process to start just
>> fine using a command line script.  But the problem I'm having is this
>> particular process does not return any value when started, and the
>> shell command is not exiting because of this (at least that's what I
>> assume is happening).  So my script just kind of hangs at that
>> point.  The process I'm starting is the Valentina database server.
>>
>> So what I'm looking for is a way to run my script, which starts the
>> process, but include in my script something that says, "Okay, I'm
>> finished now", and will allow my handler to go on at that point.
>> This is the current script I'm running with the shell function:
>>
>> #!/bin/sh
>> pw=[PasswordHere]  -- this is obtained earlier with an authentication
>> dialog
>> echo $pw | sudo -S /Library/RNSEServer/RNSEServer &
>> exit
>>
>>
>> Now, if I run these lines one at a time from a Terminal window
>> everything works great.  But if I run the script all at once, whether
>> from Revolution or from a Unix script file, it hangs, almost as if
>> the exit command isn't executing.  So is there something I can use in
>> place of 'exit' that will cause my script to finish?  Or is there
>> same way to cause the shell function not to wait like it does by
>> default?  I was previously using "open process" instead of shell, and
>> that worked except that
>>
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> Here is an example of a script I use that really does run in the  
> background.
>
>  put "ping -c1 -n "  & pIP into tShellCmd
>  put " > " & tFileName & " 2>&1 &" after tShellCmd
>  get shell(tShellCmd)
>
> I tried using the ampersand and it didn't work but this does. It
> writes it's output to a file which you may not need, but the crucial
> bit is the " 2>&1 &" which allows my Rev script to continue without
> waiting for the shell command to finish.
>
> You can feed your lines into the variable "tShellCommand" although you
> may not need the "exit" at all.
>
> I hope this helps as I detest installers that require me to do a
> reboot. I  feel it is nearly always due to lack of understanding or
> programmer laziness rather than because the system really needs to
> restart.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

------------------------------------------
Chris Sheffield
Read Naturally
The Fluency Company
http://www.readnaturally.com
------------------------------------------




From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  4 12:28:43 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:28:43 -0700
Subject: Unix scripting help
In-Reply-To: <7700E084-DA29-4CFF-96F3-04DDEE4E89BF@cableone.net>
Message-ID: <BF67FBCB.2E9B5%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Check Apple's AppleScript web site for the latest on using shells and
Panther/Tiger.
The caution they give is that Terminal uses a slightly different shell by
default.  You need to change shells to the one Applescript will use, then
test in Terminal.

This may not be related to your problem.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 10/4/05 9:17 AM, "Chris Sheffield" <revlist at cableone.net> wrote:

> Sarah,
> 
> Thank you for this.  I think I'm getting closer using your little
> trick, but my standalone still hangs at that point.  I've tried it
> with "exit" and without with the same results.  I just don't get why
> this is happening.  When I create a script file and run it from
> Terminal, it works as expected.  When I run the script from within
> Rev it hangs.  Do you (or anyone for that matter) have any other ideas?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> On Sep 29, 2005, at 2:41 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:
> 
>>> I've got an installer in Rev that has to start a process under OS X
>>> using the shell function.  I'm able to get the process to start just
>>> fine using a command line script.  But the problem I'm having is this
>>> particular process does not return any value when started, and the
>>> shell command is not exiting because of this (at least that's what I
>>> assume is happening).  So my script just kind of hangs at that
>>> point.  The process I'm starting is the Valentina database server.
>>> 
>>> So what I'm looking for is a way to run my script, which starts the
>>> process, but include in my script something that says, "Okay, I'm
>>> finished now", and will allow my handler to go on at that point.
>>> This is the current script I'm running with the shell function:
>>> 
>>> #!/bin/sh
>>> pw=[PasswordHere]  -- this is obtained earlier with an authentication
>>> dialog
>>> echo $pw | sudo -S /Library/RNSEServer/RNSEServer &
>>> exit
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Now, if I run these lines one at a time from a Terminal window
>>> everything works great.  But if I run the script all at once, whether
>>> from Revolution or from a Unix script file, it hangs, almost as if
>>> the exit command isn't executing.  So is there something I can use in
>>> place of 'exit' that will cause my script to finish?  Or is there
>>> same way to cause the shell function not to wait like it does by
>>> default?  I was previously using "open process" instead of shell, and
>>> that worked except that
>>> 
>> 
>> Hi Chris,
>> 
>> Here is an example of a script I use that really does run in the
>> background.
>> 
>>  put "ping -c1 -n "  & pIP into tShellCmd
>>  put " > " & tFileName & " 2>&1 &" after tShellCmd
>>  get shell(tShellCmd)
>> 
>> I tried using the ampersand and it didn't work but this does. It
>> writes it's output to a file which you may not need, but the crucial
>> bit is the " 2>&1 &" which allows my Rev script to continue without
>> waiting for the shell command to finish.
>> 
>> You can feed your lines into the variable "tShellCommand" although you
>> may not need the "exit" at all.
>> 
>> I hope this helps as I detest installers that require me to do a
>> reboot. I  feel it is nearly always due to lack of understanding or
>> programmer laziness rather than because the system really needs to
>> restart.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Sarah
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------
> Chris Sheffield
> Read Naturally
> The Fluency Company
> http://www.readnaturally.com
> ------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct  4 12:44:04 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:44:04 -0500
Subject: probable bug of fields
In-Reply-To: <0638E1E6-34C8-11DA-8A15-000A959BA7DC@fiberworld.nl>
Message-ID: <BF681B84.2CE73%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/4/05 6:14 AM, "Claudi Cornaz" <claudi at fiberworld.nl> wrote:

> Can someone confirm this?
> I use the latest build of 2.6 and OS 10.2.8

Confirmed on OS X 10.3.9, going back to the 2.2 engine (and maybe even
before). I'd suggest filing a bug report in Bugzilla so RunRev can fix it...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From davis.phil at comcast.net  Tue Oct  4 12:58:49 2005
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:58:49 -0700
Subject: Bizarre problem of disappearing pictures on reducing stack size
In-Reply-To: <128.66862c24.3072ef74@aol.com>
References: <128.66862c24.3072ef74@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4342B4C9.3070407@comcast.net>

Hi Steve,

Two tips that will at least tell you more about those unviewable images:


1) In the Application Browser, select one of them, then click the 
"Inspector" button and look at the "Size and Position" panel of the 
Inspector. That will tell you if the image is within the rectangle of 
the stack, or if for some reason it is "offscreen". If offscreen, you can

   set the loc of image "arrows" to the loc of image "withoutArrows"

to bring it back onscreen.


2) Also in the same panel you can check the layer of the object. If the 
layer number is lower than that of the image it's supposed to cover, it 
won't be viewable even when visible. (The layers of both images should 
also be shown in the Application Browser).


Hopefully this will help bring those images back under control!

Phil Davis



Stgoldberg at aol.com wrote:
> I've created a stack containing several hundred cards, each with a jpeg of   
> a radiologic image.   In order to test students, each x-ray is unlabeled with 
> arrows.   In order to provide a clue to the student, I've prepared a duplicate 
> hidden picture on each card with the same picture, but with arrows pointing 
> to   key areas to look at.   The duplicate picture is titled "arrows" and is 
> set to be hidden, until the student clicks on a button titled "hint" which 
> contains the script '"show image "arrows"'.   In order to create the duplicate 
> picture, I copied and immediately pasted the original picture on the same site on 
> the card.   I then opened the image editor and put in the arrows and updated 
> the picture.
> 
> I recently phrased the question to the forum as to whether it was possible to 
> minimize the stack size, since so many of the original pictures were resized 
> right on the card. Apparently, just resizing the images and   locking the size 
> and position on the card does not reduce the size of the stack. So, Phil 
> Davis suggested an excellent brief way to do this through the following script:
> 
> on mouseUp
>     -- first, prevent the image from expanding when reset
>     set the lockLoc of img "myImage" to true
> 
>     -- reset the image's data
>     put the imageData of img "myImage" into tData
>     set the imageData of img "myImage" to tData
> end mouseUp
> 
> In order to try this on the entire stack, I modified the script a bit 
> (fortunately I made a backup stack first):
> 
> repeat with x = 1 to the number of cards
> go to card x
> repeat with y = 1 to the number of images
> if there is an image y then 
> put the imageData of img y into tData
> set the imageData of img y to tData
> end if
> end repeat
> end repeat
> 
> This indeed did significantly reduce the stack size.   However, all of the 
> "arrows" pictures in the stack disappeared. They would no longer appear with the 
> command   'show image "arrows"' or on turning on "Show Invisible Objects" 
> from the view menu.   The "arrows" pictures could not be found, but strangely 
> they still were listed in the Application Browser.   Does anyone have any 
> suggestion as to how to account for this?   The only thing I can think of is that the 
> original pictures can be found in the Finder.   The duplicated pictures, as 
> always, cannot.   Perhaps this has something to do with it.   Thanks very much.
> Steve Goldberg


From davis.phil at comcast.net  Tue Oct  4 13:05:35 2005
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:05:35 -0700
Subject: Bizarre problem of disappearing pictures on reducing stack size
In-Reply-To: <4342B4C9.3070407@comcast.net>
References: <128.66862c24.3072ef74@aol.com> <4342B4C9.3070407@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4342B65F.1050502@comcast.net>

I'm feeling pretty silly about now... I just realized I repeated 
everything Sarah said! My apologies, Sarah.

Reading is a wonderful thing... guess I should do more of it!

Phil


Phil Davis wrote:
> Hi Steve,
> 
> Two tips that will at least tell you more about those unviewable images:
> 
> 
> 1) In the Application Browser, select one of them, then click the 
> "Inspector" button and look at the "Size and Position" panel of the 
> Inspector. That will tell you if the image is within the rectangle of 
> the stack, or if for some reason it is "offscreen". If offscreen, you can
> 
>   set the loc of image "arrows" to the loc of image "withoutArrows"
> 
> to bring it back onscreen.
> 
> 
> 2) Also in the same panel you can check the layer of the object. If the 
> layer number is lower than that of the image it's supposed to cover, it 
> won't be viewable even when visible. (The layers of both images should 
> also be shown in the Application Browser).
> 
> 
> Hopefully this will help bring those images back under control!
> 
> Phil Davis
> 
> 
> 
> Stgoldberg at aol.com wrote:
> 
>> I've created a stack containing several hundred cards, each with a 
>> jpeg of   a radiologic image.   In order to test students, each x-ray 
>> is unlabeled with arrows.   In order to provide a clue to the student, 
>> I've prepared a duplicate hidden picture on each card with the same 
>> picture, but with arrows pointing to   key areas to look at.   The 
>> duplicate picture is titled "arrows" and is set to be hidden, until 
>> the student clicks on a button titled "hint" which contains the script 
>> '"show image "arrows"'.   In order to create the duplicate picture, I 
>> copied and immediately pasted the original picture on the same site on 
>> the card.   I then opened the image editor and put in the arrows and 
>> updated the picture.
>>
>> I recently phrased the question to the forum as to whether it was 
>> possible to minimize the stack size, since so many of the original 
>> pictures were resized right on the card. Apparently, just resizing the 
>> images and   locking the size and position on the card does not reduce 
>> the size of the stack. So, Phil Davis suggested an excellent brief way 
>> to do this through the following script:
>>
>> on mouseUp
>>     -- first, prevent the image from expanding when reset
>>     set the lockLoc of img "myImage" to true
>>
>>     -- reset the image's data
>>     put the imageData of img "myImage" into tData
>>     set the imageData of img "myImage" to tData
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> In order to try this on the entire stack, I modified the script a bit 
>> (fortunately I made a backup stack first):
>>
>> repeat with x = 1 to the number of cards
>> go to card x
>> repeat with y = 1 to the number of images
>> if there is an image y then put the imageData of img y into tData
>> set the imageData of img y to tData
>> end if
>> end repeat
>> end repeat
>>
>> This indeed did significantly reduce the stack size.   However, all of 
>> the "arrows" pictures in the stack disappeared. They would no longer 
>> appear with the command   'show image "arrows"' or on turning on "Show 
>> Invisible Objects" from the view menu.   The "arrows" pictures could 
>> not be found, but strangely they still were listed in the Application 
>> Browser.   Does anyone have any suggestion as to how to account for 
>> this?   The only thing I can think of is that the original pictures 
>> can be found in the Finder.   The duplicated pictures, as always, 
>> cannot.   Perhaps this has something to do with it.   Thanks very much.
>> Steve Goldberg


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct  4 14:00:35 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 13:00:35 -0500
Subject: Bizarre problem of disappearing pictures on reducing stack size
In-Reply-To: <128.66862c24.3072ef74@aol.com>
References: <128.66862c24.3072ef74@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4342C343.7050506@hyperactivesw.com>

Stgoldberg at aol.com wrote:
> However, all of the 
> "arrows" pictures in the stack disappeared. They would no longer appear with the 
> command   'show image "arrows"' or on turning on "Show Invisible Objects" 
> from the view menu.   The "arrows" pictures could not be found, but strangely 
> they still were listed in the Application Browser.

If none of the other suggestions work, try getting the imagedata of one 
of the "missing" images. It may be that your automated script 
accidentally put empty into those. That would mean you still have image 
objects, but they contain no bitmap data. I've done that myself.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Tue Oct  4 15:13:43 2005
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 21:13:43 +0200
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Path_with_a_word_and_an_=22=E9=22?=
Message-ID: <FB924E7C-9461-4906-8DAA-0DFD94A841FB@skynet.be>

Hi list

Rev 2.6 and Mac OSX X 10.4.2 FR

French laguage user of rev, I have a problem with path to folder and  
french "accent"

if I write a code ;

   put specialFolderpath("Desktop")&"/Incorpores" into tBureau
   answer file "Choisir un fichier ?" with tBureau as sheet

it opens on the answer DLOG in the right Folder

If I write

   put specialFolderpath("Desktop")&"/Incorpor?s" into tBureau
   answer file "Choisir un fichier ?" with tBureau as sheet

it doesn't open correctrly at the rigjht place
so "Incorpores" runs wel
BUT
"incorpor?s" doesn't run wel : once with "e" it's Ok, once with "?",  
it doesn't run rigth.

How can I  proceed ?


Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Oct  4 15:26:45 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 12:26:45 -0700
Subject: Determine active OS langguage
Message-ID: <50B838EF-1BFC-485B-A271-47F67797AF8B@mangomultimedia.com>

Howdy folks,

I need to find a way to determine the current language that is being  
used by the OS (OS X, Win 98 >) so I can load the proper language  
file for my application.  For example, if my app launches and Windows  
XP is using a French interface, then I would load the French language  
file.

Any ideas?


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From thierry.arbellot at laposte.net  Tue Oct  4 15:58:48 2005
From: thierry.arbellot at laposte.net (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 21:58:48 +0200
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_Path_with_a_word_and_an_=22=E9=22?=
In-Reply-To: <FB924E7C-9461-4906-8DAA-0DFD94A841FB@skynet.be>
References: <FB924E7C-9461-4906-8DAA-0DFD94A841FB@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <d4d7a3ac18c67f1b9f5e26518664d802@laposte.net>

Yves,

Tested on Panther, and it works with a slash after "/Incorpor?s"

   put specialFolderpath("Desktop")&"/Incorpor?s/" into tBureau
   answer file "Choisir un fichier ?" with tBureau as sheet

I hope it helps

Thierry

On 2005, Oct 4, , at 21:13, Yves COPPE wrote:

> Hi list
>
> Rev 2.6 and Mac OSX X 10.4.2 FR
>
> French laguage user of rev, I have a problem with path to folder and 
> french "accent"
>
> if I write a code ;
>
>   put specialFolderpath("Desktop")&"/Incorpores" into tBureau
>   answer file "Choisir un fichier ?" with tBureau as sheet
>
> it opens on the answer DLOG in the right Folder
>
> If I write
>
>   put specialFolderpath("Desktop")&"/Incorpor?s" into tBureau
>   answer file "Choisir un fichier ?" with tBureau as sheet
>
> it doesn't open correctrly at the rigjht place
> so "Incorpores" runs wel
> BUT
> "incorpor?s" doesn't run wel : once with "e" it's Ok, once with "?", 
> it doesn't run rigth.
>
> How can I  proceed ?
>
>
> Greetings.
>
> Yves COPPE
> yvescoppe at skynet.be
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Tue Oct  4 16:10:01 2005
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 22:10:01 +0200
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_Path_with_a_word_and_an_=22=E9=22?=
In-Reply-To: <d4d7a3ac18c67f1b9f5e26518664d802@laposte.net>
References: <FB924E7C-9461-4906-8DAA-0DFD94A841FB@skynet.be>
	<d4d7a3ac18c67f1b9f5e26518664d802@laposte.net>
Message-ID: <CA7C3A07-80A6-475E-BB9A-113F98039201@skynet.be>


Le 04-oct.-05 ? 21:58, Thierry Arbellot a ?crit :

> Yves,
>
> Tested on Panther, and it works with a slash after "/Incorpor?s"
>
>   put specialFolderpath("Desktop")&"/Incorpor?s/" into tBureau
>   answer file "Choisir un fichier ?" with tBureau as sheet
>
> I hope it helps
>


Hi Thierry,

It works here also

THANK YOU !!


Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be



From fgiannet at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  4 16:10:07 2005
From: fgiannet at hotmail.com (Fred Giannetto)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:10:07 -0400
Subject: Some Foolish questions
In-Reply-To: <BF620347.2CAF0%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <BAY106-F33084A4C550A976E2C6016D7830@phx.gbl>

Hello Everyone,

1) Absolute value question.  Here is a copy of the script.
I want input values over 10 to create a deficit in the Consumer and Foreign 
fields.  Example, a user puts 15 into the Reserves field.  It is subtracted 
from 20 putting the remainder into tReserves.  tReserves is less then 10 so 
it has 10 subtracted from it, it is divided by 2 resulting in -2.5 into 
tConsumer but I only see 2.5.  The script is a little convoluted because I 
have been trying to solve this problem.

on mouseUp
  put 20 - field "Reserves" into tReserves
  switch
  case tReserves < 10
    put tReserves - 10 into tShortfall
    put tShortfall / 2 into tConsumer
    put -tConsumer into field "Consumer"
    put tShortfall / 2 into tForeign
    put -tForeign into field "Foreign"
    put field "Reserves" into field "Military"
  case tReserves >= 10
     put tReserves / 2 into field "Consumer"
     put tReserves / 2 into field "Foreign"
     put field "Reserves" into field "Military"
     end switch
end mouseUp

2.  I am using the database property "move to previous record" for the 
previous record button and it is setup to access the correct query.  I have 
created two queries using Microsoft Access driver and Microsoft do Access 
driver.  I have attempted to connect with both of them and they exhibit the 
same symptoms.  I can only go forward and refresh.  The MySQL connection 
works without any problems.

If there are no foolish questions then I am sure I will at least breach the 
perimeter of the inane.

Thank you for your assistance
All best Always
Fred



>From: Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com>
>Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>To: Use Revolution List <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Subject: Re: Some Foolish questions
>Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 20:47:03 -0500
>
>On 9/29/05 7:12 PM, "Fred Giannetto" <fgiannet at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I am evaluating the software and have a couple of foolish questions.
>
>Welcome, Fred! No questions are foolish!
>
> > 1) It seems the fields are only returning absolute value.  The script is
> > performing the math correctly but the field returns all negative values 
>as
> > absolute values.  Is there a setting or a way around this?
>
>Well, without knowing what the script is that is executing, it would be 
>hard
>to give you an answer. Can you post the script you're executing?
>
> > 2) I have connected to my Access database and results are returned.  I 
>am
> > unable to go back to previous records however.  I can only go to the 
>next
> > record or refresh the query.  Is this a limitation in a library and what 
>is
> > the way around it?  I believe I saw another post suggesting an array be
> > used.
>
>You should be able to use 'revDB_moveprev' in order to move back one record
>at a time. Rather than using a cursor (recordset), it may be more efficient
>(if there's not a ton of data) to retrieve all the data at once into a
>variable (or array) and then walk though that. If you need help in doing
>this, please let us know.
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software
>Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct  4 16:26:19 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:26:19 -0500
Subject: Some Foolish questions
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-F33084A4C550A976E2C6016D7830@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BF684F9B.2CEBC%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/4/05 3:10 PM, "Fred Giannetto" <fgiannet at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Everyone,
> 
> 1) Absolute value question.  Here is a copy of the script.
> I want input values over 10 to create a deficit in the Consumer and Foreign
> fields.  Example, a user puts 15 into the Reserves field.  It is subtracted
> from 20 putting the remainder into tReserves.  tReserves is less then 10 so
> it has 10 subtracted from it, it is divided by 2 resulting in -2.5 into
> tConsumer but I only see 2.5.

Well, the script puts 'tShortfall / 2 into tConsumer', which would put -2.5
into tConsumer, but when it goes into the field, you have 'put -tConsumer
into field "Consumer"', which puts "2.5" into fld "Consumer" because:

    -tConsumer

is the same as 

    -1 * tConsumer

which is:

    -1 * -2.5  =  2.5

So I think if you set it to put "tConsumer" instead of "-tConsumer" you
should get what you're expecting.

> 2.  I am using the database property "move to previous record" for the
> previous record button and it is setup to access the correct query.  I have
> created two queries using Microsoft Access driver and Microsoft do Access
> driver.  I have attempted to connect with both of them and they exhibit the
> same symptoms.  I can only go forward and refresh.  The MySQL connection
> works without any problems.

What happens when you try to go to the previous record what happens - do you
stay on the current one? Or do you get some other result?


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct  4 16:36:02 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:36:02 -0500
Subject: Determine active OS langguage
In-Reply-To: <50B838EF-1BFC-485B-A271-47F67797AF8B@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <BF6851E2.2CEBF%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/4/05 2:26 PM, "Trevor DeVore" <lists at mangomultimedia.com> wrote:

> Howdy folks,
> 
> I need to find a way to determine the current language that is being
> used by the OS (OS X, Win 98 >) so I can load the proper language
> file for my application.  For example, if my app launches and Windows
> XP is using a French interface, then I would load the French language
> file.
> 
> Any ideas?

Well, for Windows, Scott Rossi posted a function to get that information
(watch line wraps):

function langSpecs
  # THIS FUNCTION RETURNS 4 LINE ITEMS:
  # COUNTRY DESIGNATION
  # 3 CHAR LANGUAGE CODE
  # 8 CHAR LOCALE HEX CODE
  # 4 CHAR LOCALE DECIMAL CODE
  if word 1 of systemVersion() = "Windows" then
    put url ("file:" & specialFolderPath(system) & "/win.ini") into tSystem
    set itemDel to "="
    put item 2 of line (lineOffset("sCountry",tSystem)) of tSystem & cr
after tData
    put item 2 of line (lineOffset("sLanguage",tSystem)) of tSystem & cr
after tData
  else
    put queryRegistry("HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control
Panel\International\sCountry") & cr after tData
    put queryRegistry("HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control
Panel\International\sLanguage") & cr after tData
  end if
  put queryRegistry("HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\International\Locale")
& cr after tData
  put baseConvert(line 3 of tData,16,10) after tData
  return tData
end langSpecs

For OS X, check out Alex Rice's post on the subject:

http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2002-December/010238.html


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From yenemi at ispss.rimed.cu  Tue Oct  4 18:40:35 2005
From: yenemi at ispss.rimed.cu (Yenexey)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 16:40:35 -0600
Subject: email
Message-ID: <000f01c5c934$a5d80fd0$5664a8c0@Software11>

yenemi at ispss.rimed.cu

From fgiannet at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  4 16:42:23 2005
From: fgiannet at hotmail.com (Fred Giannetto)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:42:23 -0400
Subject: Some Foolish questions
In-Reply-To: <BF684F9B.2CEBC%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <BAY106-F1427F82731D1DACBB056E2D7830@phx.gbl>

Hello,

1) I switched to -tShortfall because I was not seeing a negative value.  The 
result is the same whether I have -tShortfall or tShortfall.  Do you get 
negative values to appear in your fields?

2) When I hit the previous button the record stays on the current record.  I 
can go forward successfully, hit previous button (nothing happens), and then 
go forward again successfully.  I can only get to the first entry again by 
refreshing the SQL.  I am using the button exactly as it is shown in the 
video example.

Thank you
All best Always
Fred


>From: Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com>
>Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>To: Use Revolution List <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Subject: Re: Some Foolish questions
>Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:26:19 -0500
>
>On 10/4/05 3:10 PM, "Fred Giannetto" <fgiannet at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > 1) Absolute value question.  Here is a copy of the script.
> > I want input values over 10 to create a deficit in the Consumer and 
>Foreign
> > fields.  Example, a user puts 15 into the Reserves field.  It is 
>subtracted
> > from 20 putting the remainder into tReserves.  tReserves is less then 10 
>so
> > it has 10 subtracted from it, it is divided by 2 resulting in -2.5 into
> > tConsumer but I only see 2.5.
>
>Well, the script puts 'tShortfall / 2 into tConsumer', which would put -2.5
>into tConsumer, but when it goes into the field, you have 'put -tConsumer
>into field "Consumer"', which puts "2.5" into fld "Consumer" because:
>
>     -tConsumer
>
>is the same as
>
>     -1 * tConsumer
>
>which is:
>
>     -1 * -2.5  =  2.5
>
>So I think if you set it to put "tConsumer" instead of "-tConsumer" you
>should get what you're expecting.
>
> > 2.  I am using the database property "move to previous record" for the
> > previous record button and it is setup to access the correct query.  I 
>have
> > created two queries using Microsoft Access driver and Microsoft do 
>Access
> > driver.  I have attempted to connect with both of them and they exhibit 
>the
> > same symptoms.  I can only go forward and refresh.  The MySQL connection
> > works without any problems.
>
>What happens when you try to go to the previous record what happens - do 
>you
>stay on the current one? Or do you get some other result?
>
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software
>Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From jonseymour at mac.com  Tue Oct  4 16:50:13 2005
From: jonseymour at mac.com (Jon Seymour)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 15:50:13 -0500
Subject: imagesource property in Win32 standalone
Message-ID: <AE00C125-E89C-4270-9360-99BB5ACC16C3@mac.com>

Hi,

I am setting the imagesource of char 1 of line xxx in order to  
display a small (16x16) icon in front of each line of text in a list  
field. If you've ever seen iTunes and its "Source" box you know the  
effect I am shooting for. Well, it works brilliantly on my OS X  
version, but to my horror the images do not appear when I migrate to  
Windows. I've tried everything I can think of related to the line  
height; furthermore, the 32x32 icons from the same image library  
appear nicely in the appropriate buttons on the Windows side (giving  
me the impression the library is available to the Windows app).

Can anyone shed some light?

Thanks,

Jon


From thierry.arbellot at laposte.net  Tue Oct  4 16:53:18 2005
From: thierry.arbellot at laposte.net (Thierry Arbellot)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 22:53:18 +0200
Subject: Determine active OS langguage
In-Reply-To: <50B838EF-1BFC-485B-A271-47F67797AF8B@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <50B838EF-1BFC-485B-A271-47F67797AF8B@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <890d4cd2f0863c803f3bcd0e5d3093bd@laposte.net>

For OSX, I use the following code. On new installation, the languages 
might not be defined, then read the globaldomain will return an error.

     put replaceText(shell("defaults read NSGlobalDomain 
AppleLanguages"),"(\s|\(|\))","") into languagesList
     if offset("AppleLanguages",languagesList) <> 0 then  -- error, 
domain AppleLanguages is not defined
       put replaceText(shell("defaults read NSGlobalDomain 
AppleLocale"),"(\s|\(|\))","") into languagesList
       if offset("AppleLocale",languagesList) <> 0 then  -- error, 
domain AppleLocale is not defined
         -- use a trick: get the localized name of the trash
         do "tell application" &&quote&"Finder"&quote &return& "get 
displayed name of trash" &return& "end tell" as appleScript
         put the result into theResult
         switch theResult
         case "Corbeille"  -- French
           put "French" into languagesList
           break
         case "Trash"  -- English
           put "English" into languagesList
           break
-- add any other language 
         default
           put empty into languagesList
         end switch
       end if
     end if

Thierry

On 2005, Oct 4, , at 21:26, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> Howdy folks,
>
> I need to find a way to determine the current language that is being 
> used by the OS (OS X, Win 98 >) so I can load the proper language file 
> for my application.  For example, if my app launches and Windows XP is 
> using a French interface, then I would load the French language file.
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> Blue Mango Multimedia
> trevor at mangomultimedia.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Oct  4 16:58:12 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 13:58:12 -0700
Subject: Determine active OS langguage
In-Reply-To: <BF6851E2.2CEBF%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF6851E2.2CEBF%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <5569C414-1FB8-4588-81D6-652D489539A7@mangomultimedia.com>

Thanks Ken and Thierry for the info.  I will take a look at these and  
let you know how it goes.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Oct  4 17:14:15 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 22:14:15 +0100
Subject: Looking for Implementation Advice
In-Reply-To: <002501c5c8cd$c48441e0$6400a8c0@fusion>
References: <002501c5c8cd$c48441e0$6400a8c0@fusion>
Message-ID: <4342F0A7.5010808@tweedly.net>

Mike Doub wrote:

>Hello List,
>
>I am looking for implementation advice on how best to solve a problem
>displaying a graphical representation of a matrix of data.  
>
>I have a variable that is set up with each line representing a row of
>information, and each item of the line a value.  There are a variable number
>of lines and values.  I typically expect about 50 lines and 24 values.
>
>Something like this (as you can see I am thinking of using arrays with split
>and combine):
>
>Label1|0,0,1,3,5,6...
>Label2|1,4,6,7,2,0...
>Label3|5,4,4,3,-1,1...
>.
>.
>.
>
>The graphic that I was envisioning was a group of small squares that would
>contain colors, green for 0 and higher, orange for -1, red for -2 add below.
>The label would be next to each row of boxes.  I would also like the user to
>be able to hover over one of the boxes and be able to see the actual value.
>
>I have multiple data sets to be displayed. Initially I was thinking that I
>would have one of this graphic per card, but having this as part of a
>scrolling field would be nice.  Anyway let's keep it simple and just assume
>that it will be on each card.
>
>I am a bit stumped at how to:
>1) Build this graphical thing dynamically to accommodate difference numbers
>of rows and columns
>2) How to connect the appearance of each box to the data, both to set the
>color and to get the hovering effect.
>
>I am totally open to suggestions at this point in how to better layout the
>data and to build this graphical control.  
>
>Thank you in advance for pointing me in a direction.
>  
>
Hi Mike - I'll point in a number of directions :-)
I'd probably do #3 myself, assuming the 50 lines x 24 values is a 
realistic estimate, and that the max size you need to handle isn't too 
much larger than that.

I can see three ways to get the colored squares - though there are 
probably dozens of other ways.

1. Use the "imageSource" for each character.
Create images (either in your stack, or as PNG files) each a square of a 
different color.
Set the text of the field to be something like
   Label 1 <tab> ABCD
   Lab 2<tab> AADEC
etc.
Set the images source of each character to the appropriate PNG or image.

2. (similar)
Do the same but instead of using imageSource for each character, use 
htmlText : set both color and bgcolor of each character in turn to the 
relevant color value as needed.

(e.g. some code vaguely like:

>   set the itemdel to TAB
>   repeat with tLine = 1 to the number of lines in fld "Field"
>     put the number of chars in item 2 of line tLine of fld "Field" 
> into tNum
>     repeat with tChar = 1 to tNum
>       put char tChar of item 2 of line tLine of fld "Field" into tt
>       put "<font bgcolor=" & theColor[tt] & "><font color=" & 
> theColor[tt] & ">" & tt & "</font></font>" into tHtml
>       set the htmlText of char tChar of item 2 of line tLine of fld 
> "Field" to tHtml
>     end repeat
>   end repeat
>  

where the array "theColor" has been set up ahead of time.

3. Use a number of buttons, all square.
Create a "template" button, with all the right characteristics (square, 
no border, etc. and hidden)
Then for each value in each line create a new button (clone the template 
one), set its position, set its color according to the value, and then 
make it visible.  [obviously, re-use buttons as needed]


For the "hover" value, in case 3 you can simply set the tooltip of each 
button to the actual value.

For cases 1 or 2, I think you'd need to do your own tracking of the 
mouse using a mouseMove handler and timer, then using mouse co-ords (or 
mouseChunk ??) to determine which char is the relevant one, and pop up 
the right value (maybe by setting the tooltip for the field - worth 
looking into whether you could do that).


Hmmm - it would be nice if there was a tooltip event, which would 
trigger a handler "pre-appearance" to allow you to adjust the text. 
Would that be a worthwhile enhancement request ?


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/114 - Release Date: 28/09/2005



From fgiannet at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  4 19:00:36 2005
From: fgiannet at hotmail.com (Fred Giannetto)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 19:00:36 -0400
Subject: Using a card to make modifications to database
In-Reply-To: <BF684F9B.2CEBC%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <BAY106-F144E761FB5E796E5F97D42D7830@phx.gbl>

Hello,

Trying to have a card submit changes to MySQL database.  The syntax for 
revExecuteSQL requires me to use database ID.

How do I do this as the database ID is always changing.  I have used the 
revOpenDatabase function to get it but the ID did not seem to work (I have 
the right priviledges) and  I want the card to be able to apply changes 
everytime without modifications.

All best Always
Fred


>From: Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com>
>Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>To: Use Revolution List <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Subject: Re: Some Foolish questions
>Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:26:19 -0500
>
>On 10/4/05 3:10 PM, "Fred Giannetto" <fgiannet at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > 1) Absolute value question.  Here is a copy of the script.
> > I want input values over 10 to create a deficit in the Consumer and 
>Foreign
> > fields.  Example, a user puts 15 into the Reserves field.  It is 
>subtracted
> > from 20 putting the remainder into tReserves.  tReserves is less then 10 
>so
> > it has 10 subtracted from it, it is divided by 2 resulting in -2.5 into
> > tConsumer but I only see 2.5.
>
>Well, the script puts 'tShortfall / 2 into tConsumer', which would put -2.5
>into tConsumer, but when it goes into the field, you have 'put -tConsumer
>into field "Consumer"', which puts "2.5" into fld "Consumer" because:
>
>     -tConsumer
>
>is the same as
>
>     -1 * tConsumer
>
>which is:
>
>     -1 * -2.5  =  2.5
>
>So I think if you set it to put "tConsumer" instead of "-tConsumer" you
>should get what you're expecting.
>
> > 2.  I am using the database property "move to previous record" for the
> > previous record button and it is setup to access the correct query.  I 
>have
> > created two queries using Microsoft Access driver and Microsoft do 
>Access
> > driver.  I have attempted to connect with both of them and they exhibit 
>the
> > same symptoms.  I can only go forward and refresh.  The MySQL connection
> > works without any problems.
>
>What happens when you try to go to the previous record what happens - do 
>you
>stay on the current one? Or do you get some other result?
>
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software
>Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Oct  4 19:17:51 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 16:17:51 -0700
Subject: Determine active OS langguage
In-Reply-To: <5569C414-1FB8-4588-81D6-652D489539A7@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <BF6851E2.2CEBF%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<5569C414-1FB8-4588-81D6-652D489539A7@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <C68AF1CA-2225-49CC-BAB5-EAAEC917990B@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 4, 2005, at 1:58 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> Thanks Ken and Thierry for the info.  I will take a look at these  
> and let you know how it goes.

Here is what I came up with by combing the hints everyone provided.   
My app has language files identified using 2 character language codes  
(en,fr,de,etc).  This function returns one of those language codes  
based on the platform the app is running on.

I've tested on OS X with English, French, German, Spanish and  
Italian.  I tested Win XP with English and it worked but haven't  
tested the other languages yet since I don't have Windows in anything  
but English.  If anyone wants to let me know how it works on their  
international system that would be great.  Otherwise I will just wait  
to hear back from the localization company.

Thanks for the pointers.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




/**
* Returns the two letter language code that our program can use to  
load a language file.
*
* @return 2 letter lang
*/
function getUserLang
     local tAppLangs = "en,fr,de,es,it"      --> LANGUAGE CODES THAT  
WILL BE RETURNED BY FUNCTION
     local tAppLangsMac = "en,fr,de,es,it"   --> LANGUAGE CODES THAT  
MAC OS RETURNS
     local tAppLangsWin = "9,12,17,10,6"     --> DECIMAL  
REPRESENTATIONS OF PRIMARY LANGUAGE CODES WINDOWS RETURNS
     local tUserLangs
     local i

     set wholeMatches to true

     if platform() is "MacOS" then
         put replaceText(shell("defaults read NSGlobalDomain  
AppleLanguages"),"(\s|\(|\))","") into tUserLangs

         repeat for each item tLang in tUserLangs
             put itemOffset(tLang, tAppLangsMac) into i
             if i > 0 then exit repeat
         end repeat
     else if platform() is "Win32" then
         put queryRegistry("HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel 
\International\Locale") into tUserLangs
         put baseConvert(tUserLangs,16,10) bitAND 1023 into tUserLangs

         repeat for each item tLang in tUserLangs
             put itemOffset(tLang, tAppLangsWin) into i
             if i > 0 then exit repeat
         end repeat

     --> LINUX
     else

     end if

     if i > 0 then return item i of tAppLangs
     else return "en"
end getUserLang



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Oct  4 19:37:49 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:37:49 -0700
Subject: Determine active OS langguage
In-Reply-To: <C68AF1CA-2225-49CC-BAB5-EAAEC917990B@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <BF68605D.2217E%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Trevor DeVore  wrote:

> I've tested on OS X with English, French, German, Spanish and
> Italian.  I tested Win XP with English and it worked but haven't
> tested the other languages yet since I don't have Windows in anything
> but English.  If anyone wants to let me know how it works on their
> international system that would be great.  Otherwise I will just wait
> to hear back from the localization company.

If you have XP available, you can do a lot of good localized testing.  By
using the Regional and Language Options control panel, you can designate the
machine to be of any country, and use different languages in the UI (you may
need to install font/language kits for some languages such as any of the
Asian or other double byte languages).  IIRC, you use the Regional Options
and Advanced tabs to give your system a new locale and language.  Note that
you'll have to restart each time you make a change.  While not identical to
using true localized systems, this is a great way to test how your app
responds under different language conditions.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Oct  4 19:45:49 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 16:45:49 -0700
Subject: Determine active OS langguage
In-Reply-To: <BF68605D.2217E%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF68605D.2217E%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <F427666C-7D81-4E81-B1F7-D48302F3C484@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 4, 2005, at 4:37 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:
> If you have XP available, you can do a lot of good localized  
> testing.  By
> using the Regional and Language Options control panel, you can  
> designate the
> machine to be of any country, and use different languages in the UI  
> (you may
> need to install font/language kits for some languages such as any  
> of the
> Asian or other double byte languages).  IIRC, you use the Regional  
> Options
> and Advanced tabs to give your system a new locale and language.   
> Note that
> you'll have to restart each time you make a change.  While not  
> identical to
> using true localized systems, this is a great way to test how your app
> responds under different language conditions.

Hmm, I will have to poke around some more.  I was able to change the  
keyboard input language but not the system language.  This is good to  
know though.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Oct  4 20:22:04 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 17:22:04 -0700
Subject: Some Foolish questions
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-F1427F82731D1DACBB056E2D7830@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY106-F1427F82731D1DACBB056E2D7830@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <7932098064.20051004172204@ahsoftware.net>

Fred-

Tuesday, October 4, 2005, 1:42:23 PM, you wrote:

> 2) When I hit the previous button the record stays on the current record.  I
> can go forward successfully, hit previous button (nothing happens), and then
> go forward again successfully.  I can only get to the first entry again by
> refreshing the SQL.  I am using the button exactly as it is shown in the
> video example.

The "move to previous record" and other such functions simply don't
work with ODBC connections. Cast some votes for bug #1528 if you think
it's important to get fixed. ODBC connections are created in a
forward-only mode. Tuviah weaseled out of this one by saying "I
believe the docs document that certain ops don't work with certain
databases".

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From fgiannet at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  4 20:23:43 2005
From: fgiannet at hotmail.com (Fred Giannetto)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 20:23:43 -0400
Subject: Using a card to make modifications to database
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-F144E761FB5E796E5F97D42D7830@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY106-F65DD187A41991B7B6F508D7820@phx.gbl>

Here is a copy of my script.  The point is for users to enter data into the 
card and the submit button have the data inserted into the database.  The 
sql works when submitted directly into the database.

on mouseUp
  put field "Name" into tName
  put field "Team" into tTeam
  put field "Position" into tPosition
  put field "Rushing" into tRushing
  put field "Receiving" into tReceiving
  get revOpenDatabases("MYSQL", "localhost", "test", root, root1)
  put it into tDatabaseID
  answer tName, tTeam, tPosition, tRushing, tReceiving, tDatabaseID
  revExecuteSQL tDatabaseID,"insert into test.nflstats(Name, Team, Position, 
Rushing, Receiving) values(tName, tTeam, tPosition, tRushing, tReceiving)"
end mouseUp

I have the tDatabaseID variable to make sure I am recording the Database ID

Thank you for your assistance, There will be a lot of progress once I get 
past these elementary hurdles
All best Always
Fred

>From: "Fred Giannetto" <fgiannet at hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Subject: Using a card to make modifications to database
>Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 19:00:36 -0400
>
>Hello,
>
>Trying to have a card submit changes to MySQL database.  The syntax for 
>revExecuteSQL requires me to use database ID.
>
>How do I do this as the database ID is always changing.  I have used the 
>revOpenDatabase function to get it but the ID did not seem to work (I have 
>the right priviledges) and  I want the card to be able to apply changes 
>everytime without modifications.
>
>All best Always
>Fred
>
>
>>From: Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com>
>>Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>To: Use Revolution List <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>Subject: Re: Some Foolish questions
>>Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:26:19 -0500
>>
>>On 10/4/05 3:10 PM, "Fred Giannetto" <fgiannet at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hello Everyone,
>> >
>> > 1) Absolute value question.  Here is a copy of the script.
>> > I want input values over 10 to create a deficit in the Consumer and 
>>Foreign
>> > fields.  Example, a user puts 15 into the Reserves field.  It is 
>>subtracted
>> > from 20 putting the remainder into tReserves.  tReserves is less then 
>>10 so
>> > it has 10 subtracted from it, it is divided by 2 resulting in -2.5 into
>> > tConsumer but I only see 2.5.
>>
>>Well, the script puts 'tShortfall / 2 into tConsumer', which would put 
>>-2.5
>>into tConsumer, but when it goes into the field, you have 'put -tConsumer
>>into field "Consumer"', which puts "2.5" into fld "Consumer" because:
>>
>>     -tConsumer
>>
>>is the same as
>>
>>     -1 * tConsumer
>>
>>which is:
>>
>>     -1 * -2.5  =  2.5
>>
>>So I think if you set it to put "tConsumer" instead of "-tConsumer" you
>>should get what you're expecting.
>>
>> > 2.  I am using the database property "move to previous record" for the
>> > previous record button and it is setup to access the correct query.  I 
>>have
>> > created two queries using Microsoft Access driver and Microsoft do 
>>Access
>> > driver.  I have attempted to connect with both of them and they exhibit 
>>the
>> > same symptoms.  I can only go forward and refresh.  The MySQL 
>>connection
>> > works without any problems.
>>
>>What happens when you try to go to the previous record what happens - do 
>>you
>>stay on the current one? Or do you get some other result?
>>
>>
>>Ken Ray
>>Sons of Thunder Software
>>Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-revolution mailing list
>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>subscription preferences:
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct  4 22:26:51 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:26:51 -0500
Subject: imagesource property in Win32 standalone
In-Reply-To: <AE00C125-E89C-4270-9360-99BB5ACC16C3@mac.com>
References: <AE00C125-E89C-4270-9360-99BB5ACC16C3@mac.com>
Message-ID: <434339EB.1070407@hyperactivesw.com>

Jon Seymour wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am setting the imagesource of char 1 of line xxx in order to  display 
> a small (16x16) icon in front of each line of text in a list  field. If 
> you've ever seen iTunes and its "Source" box you know the  effect I am 
> shooting for. Well, it works brilliantly on my OS X  version, but to my 
> horror the images do not appear when I migrate to  Windows. I've tried 
> everything I can think of related to the line  height; furthermore, the 
> 32x32 icons from the same image library  appear nicely in the 
> appropriate buttons on the Windows side (giving  me the impression the 
> library is available to the Windows app).
> 
> Can anyone shed some light?

I can't imagine why it wouldn't work. The only thing I can think of is 
that maybe you are using a high ASCII character as an imagesource 
placeholder. When those characters are transfered to Windows, the engine 
replaces the character set to the equivalent Windows mappings. I don't 
know how the engine tracks these things, but it may be that if the 
character is different, imagesource will no longer be recognized. Try 
using a space as the imagesource character and see if that works.

I could be way off base, it is just the only thing I can think of.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  4 22:31:05 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 19:31:05 -0700
Subject: Using a card to make modifications to database
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-F65DD187A41991B7B6F508D7820@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BF6888F9.2EA0D%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Quick answer - you are indeed storing the id in a variable, but it is a
local variable (temporary) that disappears as soon as the 'end mouseUp' is
reached.  That's why the programmers like to use a 't' in front.. to mean
only for this handler.

There are a few options for storing any value that you need to use the next
time a handler(any handler) is used.

-1- a global variable which is available any where in Revolution, by any
stack or object
-2- a field on a card which is available when on that card
-3- a custom property of any stack which is available when the stack is in
memory (does not have to be open, just in memory)
-4- other options abound, but these should get you started

In the case of only one database being open
Check out Rev help:Topics:Database Operations:
How do I find out which databases are open? -> will get the id for you, even
if you lost the variable somehow, or don't want to store it.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas



On 10/4/05 5:23 PM, "Fred Giannetto" <fgiannet at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Here is a copy of my script.  The point is for users to enter data into the
> card and the submit button have the data inserted into the database.  The
> sql works when submitted directly into the database.
> 
> on mouseUp
>   put field "Name" into tName
>   put field "Team" into tTeam
>   put field "Position" into tPosition
>   put field "Rushing" into tRushing
>   put field "Receiving" into tReceiving
>   get revOpenDatabases("MYSQL", "localhost", "test", root, root1)
>   put it into tDatabaseID
>   answer tName, tTeam, tPosition, tRushing, tReceiving, tDatabaseID
>   revExecuteSQL tDatabaseID,"insert into test.nflstats(Name, Team, Position,
> Rushing, Receiving) values(tName, tTeam, tPosition, tRushing, tReceiving)"
> end mouseUp
> 
> I have the tDatabaseID variable to make sure I am recording the Database ID
> 
> Thank you for your assistance, There will be a lot of progress once I get
> past these elementary hurdles
> All best Always
> Fred
> 
>> From: "Fred Giannetto" <fgiannet at hotmail.com>
>> Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Subject: Using a card to make modifications to database
>> Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 19:00:36 -0400
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> Trying to have a card submit changes to MySQL database.  The syntax for
>> revExecuteSQL requires me to use database ID.
>> 
>> How do I do this as the database ID is always changing.  I have used the
>> revOpenDatabase function to get it but the ID did not seem to work (I have
>> the right priviledges) and  I want the card to be able to apply changes
>> everytime without modifications.
>> 
>> All best Always
>> Fred
>> 




From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  5 00:32:19 2005
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 21:32:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using a card to make modifications to database
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-F65DD187A41991B7B6F508D7820@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20051005043219.68581.qmail@web60518.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Fred Giannetto <fgiannet at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Here is a copy of my script.  The point is for users
> to enter data into the 
> card and the submit button have the data inserted
> into the database.  The 
> sql works when submitted directly into the database.
> 
> on mouseUp
>   put field "Name" into tName
>   put field "Team" into tTeam
>   put field "Position" into tPosition
>   put field "Rushing" into tRushing
>   put field "Receiving" into tReceiving
>   get revOpenDatabases("MYSQL", "localhost", "test",
> root, root1)
>   put it into tDatabaseID
>   answer tName, tTeam, tPosition, tRushing,
> tReceiving, tDatabaseID
>   revExecuteSQL tDatabaseID,"insert into
> test.nflstats(Name, Team, Position, 
> Rushing, Receiving) values(tName, tTeam, tPosition,
> tRushing, tReceiving)"
> end mouseUp
> 
> I have the tDatabaseID variable to make sure I am
> recording the Database ID
> 
> Thank you for your assistance, There will be a lot
> of progress once I get 
> past these elementary hurdles
> All best Always
> Fred
> 

Hi Fred,

The database functions will not check the queries for
te presence of variable names and fill in he data.
Here's a quick alternative, which uses the built-in
substitution scheme:
--
   revExecuteSQL tDatabaseID,"insert into
 test.nflstats(Name, Team, Position, 
 Rushing, Receiving) values(:1,:2,:3,:4,:5)", tName,
tTeam, tPosition,
 tRushing, tReceiving
--
See the docs for a full explanation.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From r.beynon at liv.ac.uk  Wed Oct  5 02:58:40 2005
From: r.beynon at liv.ac.uk (Rob Beynon)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 07:58:40 +0100
Subject: Speed optimisation
Message-ID: <395769895.20051005075840@liv.ac.uk>

Dear Colleagues,

I have a function that takes a time in this format

hh:mm:ss.s

and to which I add a variable number of seconds, then output the
updated time in the same format. hh can be greater than 24!

Here's the function. Problem is, it seems slow (I need to do this call
about 150,000 times each file I process). I would appreciate any
insights into making this function faster

function newTime oldTime,addedSec
    put the replacetext(oldTime,":"," ") into splitTime
    put the first word of splitTime into h
    put the second word of splitTime into m
    put the third word of splitTime into s
    put s + addedSec into newSec
    put newSec mod 60 into remainSec
    put (newsec-remainSec)/60 into addedMin
    put m + addedMin into newMin
    put newMin mod 60 into remainMin
    put (newMin-remainMin)/60 into addedHr
    put h + addedHr into newHr
    if length(remainSec) = 1 then put "0" & remainSec into remainSec
    if length(remainMin) = 1 then put "0" & remainMin into remainMin
    if length(newHr) = 1 then put "0" & newHr into newHr 
    put newHr & ":" & remainMin & ":" & remainSec into newTime
    return newTime
end newTime

-- 
All best wishes,
Rob

(Created at 07:55 on 05/10/2005)




From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Wed Oct  5 05:04:24 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Wouter)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 11:04:24 +0200
Subject: Speed optimisation
In-Reply-To: <395769895.20051005075840@liv.ac.uk>
References: <395769895.20051005075840@liv.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3C42DAE0-CB29-40E5-AD21-C34C84ED673A@scarlet.be>

Hi,

May be this will do?
  (just to give an idea, can be tweaked)

function newTime oldTime,addedSec
   set the twelvehourtime to false
   convert oldTime to seconds
   add addedSec to oldTime
   convert oldTime to long time
   if length(oldTime) = 8 then return oldTime
   else return "0" & oldTime
end newTime


Greetings,
Wouter


On 05 Oct 2005, at 08:58, Rob Beynon wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> I have a function that takes a time in this format
>
> hh:mm:ss.s
>
> and to which I add a variable number of seconds, then output the
> updated time in the same format. hh can be greater than 24!
>
> Here's the function. Problem is, it seems slow (I need to do this call
> about 150,000 times each file I process). I would appreciate any
> insights into making this function faster
>
> function newTime oldTime,addedSec
>     put the replacetext(oldTime,":"," ") into splitTime
>     put the first word of splitTime into h
>     put the second word of splitTime into m
>     put the third word of splitTime into s
>     put s + addedSec into newSec
>     put newSec mod 60 into remainSec
>     put (newsec-remainSec)/60 into addedMin
>     put m + addedMin into newMin
>     put newMin mod 60 into remainMin
>     put (newMin-remainMin)/60 into addedHr
>     put h + addedHr into newHr
>     if length(remainSec) = 1 then put "0" & remainSec into remainSec
>     if length(remainMin) = 1 then put "0" & remainMin into remainMin
>     if length(newHr) = 1 then put "0" & newHr into newHr
>     put newHr & ":" & remainMin & ":" & remainSec into newTime
>     return newTime
> end newTime
>
> --  
> All best wishes,
> Rob
>
> (Created at 07:55 on 05/10/2005)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From dick.kriesel at mail.com  Wed Oct  5 05:15:01 2005
From: dick.kriesel at mail.com (Dick Kriesel)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 02:15:01 -0700
Subject: Speed optimisation
In-Reply-To: <395769895.20051005075840@liv.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <BF68E7A5.132B4%dick.kriesel@mail.com>

On 10/4/05 11:58 PM, "Rob Beynon" <r.beynon at liv.ac.uk> wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> I have a function that takes a time in this format
> 
> hh:mm:ss.s
> 
> and to which I add a variable number of seconds, then output the
> updated time in the same format. hh can be greater than 24!
> 
> Here's the function. Problem is, it seems slow (I need to do this call
> about 150,000 times each file I process). I would appreciate any
> insights into making this function faster
> 
> function newTime oldTime,addedSec
>     put the replacetext(oldTime,":"," ") into splitTime
>     put the first word of splitTime into h
>     put the second word of splitTime into m
>     put the third word of splitTime into s
>     put s + addedSec into newSec
>     put newSec mod 60 into remainSec
>     put (newsec-remainSec)/60 into addedMin
>     put m + addedMin into newMin
>     put newMin mod 60 into remainMin
>     put (newMin-remainMin)/60 into addedHr
>     put h + addedHr into newHr
>     if length(remainSec) = 1 then put "0" & remainSec into remainSec
>     if length(remainMin) = 1 then put "0" & remainMin into remainMin
>     if length(newHr) = 1 then put "0" & newHr into newHr
>     put newHr & ":" & remainMin & ":" & remainSec into newTime
>     return newTime
> end newTime

On my machine, executing your function 150,000 times took 15 seconds.
Unless you have a lot of files or you're really pressed for time, your
function seems fast enough to me.

But if you feel the need for speed, here's a similar function, that worked
in my few tests, and that took 5.7 seconds for 150,000 executions:

function addTimeAndSeconds pTime,pSeconds
  set the itemDelimiter to ":"
  put item 1 of pTime * 3600 + item 2 of pTime * 60 + item 3 of pTime \
    + pSeconds into tSeconds
  put tSeconds div 3600 & ":" & tSeconds mod 3600 div 60 & ":" \
    & tSeconds mod 60 into tTime
  if item 2 of tTime < 10 then put 0 before item 2 of tTime
  if item 3 of tTime < 10 then put 0 before item 3 of tTime
  return tTime
end addTimeAndSeconds

I'd expect there'd be an even faster way.  (Sarah?)

-- Dick




From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Wed Oct  5 05:18:44 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 02:18:44 -0700
Subject: Speed optimisation
In-Reply-To: <395769895.20051005075840@liv.ac.uk>
References: <395769895.20051005075840@liv.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <B68CF9F6-E5FC-4FA3-9C0A-9F34034C8AF1@inspiredlogic.com>

I wrote the following alternative. It's about twice as fast, which is  
less than I had hoped for. One real speed gain if your data is at all  
repetitive would be to memo-ize your function. Keep a table of a few  
thousand inputs and outputs. Whenever you get a call with the same  
values that you've done before, you'll have the answer as quickly as  
an array lookup. Obviously if your data isn't repetitive this doesn't  
help. It seems like a good guess when calling a routine 150,000 times  
that you'll be calling it with the same arguments a few times.

regards,

geoff

function newTime T,pSeconds
   split T using ":"
   add pSeconds to T[3]
   repeat with i = 3 to 2 step -1
     get T[i] div 60
     subtract 60 * it from T[i]
     add it to T[(i-1)]
   end repeat
   repeat with i = 1 to 3
     if T[i] < 10 then put "0" before T[i]
   end repeat
   return T[1] & ":" & T[2] & ":" & T[3]
end newTime


On Oct 4, 2005, at 11:58 PM, Rob Beynon wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> I have a function that takes a time in this format
>
> hh:mm:ss.s
>
> and to which I add a variable number of seconds, then output the
> updated time in the same format. hh can be greater than 24!
>
> Here's the function. Problem is, it seems slow (I need to do this call
> about 150,000 times each file I process). I would appreciate any
> insights into making this function faster
>
> function newTime oldTime,addedSec
>     put the replacetext(oldTime,":"," ") into splitTime
>     put the first word of splitTime into h
>     put the second word of splitTime into m
>     put the third word of splitTime into s
>     put s + addedSec into newSec
>     put newSec mod 60 into remainSec
>     put (newsec-remainSec)/60 into addedMin
>     put m + addedMin into newMin
>     put newMin mod 60 into remainMin
>     put (newMin-remainMin)/60 into addedHr
>     put h + addedHr into newHr
>     if length(remainSec) = 1 then put "0" & remainSec into remainSec
>     if length(remainMin) = 1 then put "0" & remainMin into remainMin
>     if length(newHr) = 1 then put "0" & newHr into newHr
>     put newHr & ":" & remainMin & ":" & remainSec into newTime
>     return newTime
> end newTime
>
> -- 
> All best wishes,
> Rob
>
> (Created at 07:55 on 05/10/2005)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From Mike at Doub.com  Wed Oct  5 05:20:14 2005
From: Mike at Doub.com (Mike Doub)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 05:20:14 -0400
Subject: Looking for Implementation Advice
In-Reply-To: <4342F0A7.5010808@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <001b01c5c98d$fe6ff910$6400a8c0@fusion>

Thanks Alex, I appreciate your input.  I was thinking about dynamically
creating some array of objects, but I did not made to connection to put the
data in the object itself.  It is so obvious now.  Setting the tool tip
property is really clever.

How would you recommend managing setting up the locations of the buttons? Do
I just pick an x,y location on the stack and just start making incrementing
the coordinates?  I guess I need to do some experimenting.  I am wondering
if it is possible to create a group, make it invisible, create all of the
buttons in the group, set the location of the group, and then make the group
visible.

Thanks again, you helped me solve the big problem of connecting the data.  

Regards,
   Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Alex Tweedly
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 5:14 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Looking for Implementation Advice

Mike Doub wrote:

>Hello List,
>
>I am looking for implementation advice on how best to solve a problem
>displaying a graphical representation of a matrix of data.  
>
>I have a variable that is set up with each line representing a row of
>information, and each item of the line a value.  There are a variable
number
>of lines and values.  I typically expect about 50 lines and 24 values.
>
>Something like this (as you can see I am thinking of using arrays with
split
>and combine):
>
>Label1|0,0,1,3,5,6...
>Label2|1,4,6,7,2,0...
>Label3|5,4,4,3,-1,1...
>.
>.
>.
>
>The graphic that I was envisioning was a group of small squares that would
>contain colors, green for 0 and higher, orange for -1, red for -2 add
below.
>The label would be next to each row of boxes.  I would also like the user
to
>be able to hover over one of the boxes and be able to see the actual value.
>
>I have multiple data sets to be displayed. Initially I was thinking that I
>would have one of this graphic per card, but having this as part of a
>scrolling field would be nice.  Anyway let's keep it simple and just assume
>that it will be on each card.
>
>I am a bit stumped at how to:
>1) Build this graphical thing dynamically to accommodate difference numbers
>of rows and columns
>2) How to connect the appearance of each box to the data, both to set the
>color and to get the hovering effect.
>
>I am totally open to suggestions at this point in how to better layout the
>data and to build this graphical control.  
>
>Thank you in advance for pointing me in a direction.
>  
>
Hi Mike - I'll point in a number of directions :-)
I'd probably do #3 myself, assuming the 50 lines x 24 values is a 
realistic estimate, and that the max size you need to handle isn't too 
much larger than that.

I can see three ways to get the colored squares - though there are 
probably dozens of other ways.

1. Use the "imageSource" for each character.
Create images (either in your stack, or as PNG files) each a square of a 
different color.
Set the text of the field to be something like
   Label 1 <tab> ABCD
   Lab 2<tab> AADEC
etc.
Set the images source of each character to the appropriate PNG or image.

2. (similar)
Do the same but instead of using imageSource for each character, use 
htmlText : set both color and bgcolor of each character in turn to the 
relevant color value as needed.

(e.g. some code vaguely like:

>   set the itemdel to TAB
>   repeat with tLine = 1 to the number of lines in fld "Field"
>     put the number of chars in item 2 of line tLine of fld "Field" 
> into tNum
>     repeat with tChar = 1 to tNum
>       put char tChar of item 2 of line tLine of fld "Field" into tt
>       put "<font bgcolor=" & theColor[tt] & "><font color=" & 
> theColor[tt] & ">" & tt & "</font></font>" into tHtml
>       set the htmlText of char tChar of item 2 of line tLine of fld 
> "Field" to tHtml
>     end repeat
>   end repeat
>  

where the array "theColor" has been set up ahead of time.

3. Use a number of buttons, all square.
Create a "template" button, with all the right characteristics (square, 
no border, etc. and hidden)
Then for each value in each line create a new button (clone the template 
one), set its position, set its color according to the value, and then 
make it visible.  [obviously, re-use buttons as needed]


For the "hover" value, in case 3 you can simply set the tooltip of each 
button to the actual value.

For cases 1 or 2, I think you'd need to do your own tracking of the 
mouse using a mouseMove handler and timer, then using mouse co-ords (or 
mouseChunk ??) to determine which char is the relevant one, and pop up 
the right value (maybe by setting the tooltip for the field - worth 
looking into whether you could do that).


Hmmm - it would be nice if there was a tooltip event, which would 
trigger a handler "pre-appearance" to allow you to adjust the text. 
Would that be a worthwhile enhancement request ?


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



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From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Wed Oct  5 05:37:22 2005
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (graham samuel)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 11:37:22 +0200
Subject: Determine active OS langguage
Message-ID: <D9C4FEEC-198D-4A97-8DC3-39607034D5C5@wanadoo.fr>

Hi Trevor

Tried your function out on a French Windows XP SP2 system running  
RunRev 2.6 (after taking out spurious returns) and it didn't work -  
it just returned "en" because your registry query put nothing into  
tUserLangs. I am no expert, but it looks to me as if the Registry  
entries in the French system are under Control Panel\International 
\iCountry or \sCountry or \sLanguage

The value of iCountry on my system is 33 [which is the international  
phone code] and of sCountry is France [which is of course both French  
and English for France - presumably a German system for example would  
not say 'Germany' but 'Deutschland', but I haven't got a system to  
test it on) and of sLanguage is FRA. There is also \Locale which is a  
Hex figure 0000040C.

I'll experiment further it you would like to suggest which direction  
to take.

HTH

Graham


On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 16:17:51 -0700, Trevor DeVore  
<lists at mangomultimedia.com> wrote:

>
> Here is what I came up with by combing the hints everyone provided.
> My app has language files identified using 2 character language codes
> (en,fr,de,etc).  This function returns one of those language codes
> based on the platform the app is running on.
>
> I've tested on OS X with English, French, German, Spanish and
> Italian.  I tested Win XP with English and it worked but haven't
> tested the other languages yet since I don't have Windows in anything
> but English.  If anyone wants to let me know how it works on their
> international system that would be great.  Otherwise I will just wait
> to hear back from the localization company.
>
> Thanks for the pointers.
>
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> Blue Mango Multimedia
> trevor at mangomultimedia.com
>
>
>
>
> /**
> * Returns the two letter language code that our program can use to
> load a language file.
> *
> * @return 2 letter lang
> */
> function getUserLang
>      local tAppLangs = "en,fr,de,es,it"      --> LANGUAGE CODES THAT
> WILL BE RETURNED BY FUNCTION
>      local tAppLangsMac = "en,fr,de,es,it"   --> LANGUAGE CODES THAT
> MAC OS RETURNS
>      local tAppLangsWin = "9,12,17,10,6"     --> DECIMAL
> REPRESENTATIONS OF PRIMARY LANGUAGE CODES WINDOWS RETURNS
>      local tUserLangs
>      local i
>
>      set wholeMatches to true
>
>      if platform() is "MacOS" then
>          put replaceText(shell("defaults read NSGlobalDomain
> AppleLanguages"),"(\s|\(|\))","") into tUserLangs
>
>          repeat for each item tLang in tUserLangs
>              put itemOffset(tLang, tAppLangsMac) into i
>              if i > 0 then exit repeat
>          end repeat
>      else if platform() is "Win32" then
>          put queryRegistry("HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel
> \International\Locale") into tUserLangs
>          put baseConvert(tUserLangs,16,10) bitAND 1023 into tUserLangs
>
>          repeat for each item tLang in tUserLangs
>              put itemOffset(tLang, tAppLangsWin) into i
>              if i > 0 then exit repeat
>          end repeat
>
>      --> LINUX
>      else
>
>      end if
>
>      if i > 0 then return item i of tAppLangs
>      else return "en"
> end getUserLang

----------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 06:13:24 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 20:13:24 +1000
Subject: Speed optimisation
In-Reply-To: <395769895.20051005075840@liv.ac.uk>
References: <395769895.20051005075840@liv.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510050313t7f94d8c3w2e405d0bf7e55670@mail.gmail.com>

I tested the suggestions and a couple of my own and couldn't find
anything faster than Wouter's suggestions, with Dick's being very
similar. I challenge for the shortest function :-)

function newTime pTime, pAdd
  set the itemDel to ":"
  add pAdd to item 3 of pTime
  convert pTime to long time
  return char -8 to -1 of ("0" & pTime)
end newTime

But it takes about the same time as the others. However re-cheking
Rob's original specs, I see he uses seconds with 1 decimal place, and
my function won't handle that :-( Wouter's won't either, so Dick's
looks like the best bet at this stage.

Sorry,
Sarah


From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Wed Oct  5 07:16:58 2005
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (graham samuel)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 13:16:58 +0200
Subject: Determine active OS langguage
Message-ID: <320E4EE3-DCB4-47CA-A8C1-D23DA944B30E@wanadoo.fr>

Oops - I'm an amateur at these things. I now see that there is also  
another folder, Geo, within Control Panel\International, and I can see

Control Panel\International\Geo\Nation

of which the value on my machine is 84 (presumably Hex, so decimal  
132). Not sure what that means, but it still doesn't accord with your  
idea of primary language codes AFAIKS...

Graham

I just wrote:
> Hi Trevor
>
> Tried your function out on a French Windows XP SP2 system running  
> RunRev 2.6 (after taking out spurious returns) and it didn't work -  
> it just returned "en" because your registry query put nothing into  
> tUserLangs. I am no expert, but it looks to me as if the Registry  
> entries in the French system are under Control Panel\International 
> \iCountry or \sCountry or \sLanguage
>
> The value of iCountry on my system is 33 [which is the  
> international phone code] and of sCountry is France [which is of  
> course both French and English for France - presumably a German  
> system for example would not say 'Germany' but 'Deutschland', but I  
> haven't got a system to test it on) and of sLanguage is FRA. There  
> is also \Locale which is a Hex figure 0000040C.
>
> I'll experiment further it you would like to suggest which  
> direction to take.
>
> HTH
>
> Graham
>

----------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France



From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Oct  5 09:14:13 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 14:14:13 +0100
Subject: Speed optimisation
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860510050313t7f94d8c3w2e405d0bf7e55670@mail.gmail.com>
References: <395769895.20051005075840@liv.ac.uk>
	<f99b52860510050313t7f94d8c3w2e405d0bf7e55670@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4343D1A5.8050907@tweedly.net>

Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>I tested the suggestions and a couple of my own and couldn't find
>anything faster than Wouter's suggestions, with Dick's being very
>similar. I challenge for the shortest function :-)
>
>function newTime pTime, pAdd
>  set the itemDel to ":"
>  add pAdd to item 3 of pTime
>  convert pTime to long time
>  return char -8 to -1 of ("0" & pTime)
>end newTime
>
>But it takes about the same time as the others. However re-cheking
>Rob's original specs, I see he uses seconds with 1 decimal place, and
>my function won't handle that :-( Wouter's won't either, so Dick's
>looks like the best bet at this stage.
>  
>
I challenge for shortest and fastest.
(Amazing how much it helps to be slow in replying, you get to use the 
best ideas from all previous entries :-)

It's one less statement than Sarah's (though more characters) so it 
competes for shortest.

On my machine (for 150,000),
Dick's method took 3.76 seconds
Alex's method took 2.43 seconds


function addDivandFormat pTime,pSeconds
  set the itemDelimiter to ":"
  put item 1 of pTime * 3600 + item 2 of pTime * 60 + item 3 of pTime + 
pSeconds into tSeconds
  return format("%02d:%02d:%04.1f", tSeconds div 3600, tSeconds mod 3600 
div 60, tSeconds mod 60)
end addDivandFormat


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



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From andreas at medone.ch  Wed Oct  5 09:38:50 2005
From: andreas at medone.ch (andreas)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 15:38:50 +0200
Subject: stack on server very very  slow
Message-ID: <95410FB3-612F-4FF5-82B2-4F7B7D809D82@medone.ch>


In several posts one can read, that a stack, when networked, can be  
slow, due to the "save"
statement.

I have a solution on a client computer and the stack is (now) on a  
server.
Setup is OS X 10.4

After porting this stack to the server machine, it behaves very slow  
(more than 1000! times
slower, than when this stack was on the client. There is no save  
command used.

I assume that the whole stack is read in memory? There are less than  
1000 cards in it
(but they are procecessed a lot).

Thanks for your hints! I should port this Tutorial-Game as server  
solution soon.

Best regards

Andreas


From AbilityForms at aol.com  Wed Oct  5 10:37:21 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:37:21 EDT
Subject: Stack Switching Question
Message-ID: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com>

Hi Everyone,

Often times I have a button switch stacks in order to retrieve data that I 
need to complete that button's task. In HyperCard I could lock the screen, lock 
the messages, push the card, go to the data stack, retrieve the data, pop the 
card and insert the found data. All without displaying the data stack. When I 
do the same thing in Revolution it displays the data stack for a flash. Why 
does that happen, and how do I stop that data stack from showing?

Joe,
Orlando, Florida


From todd at geistinteractive.com  Tue Oct  4 03:35:26 2005
From: todd at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 00:35:26 -0700
Subject: ReplaceText and Backslash
Message-ID: <BF677ECE.37B9B%todd@geistinteractive.com>

Hello,

I have a string that comes from Applescript and it has a bunch of /" in it.

It looks like this

Script id=\"7\" name=\"New Script 2\" includeInMenu=\"True\"

I would like to replace the Backslash Quote string with just Quote. But this
does not work.

put  replaceText (theString, backslash & quote, quote)


Any ideas  why?

Thanks

Todd

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Oct  5 10:47:04 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 07:47:04 -0700
Subject: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>

AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Often times I have a button switch stacks in order to retrieve data that I 
> need to complete that button's task. In HyperCard I could lock the screen, lock 
> the messages, push the card, go to the data stack, retrieve the data, pop the 
> card and insert the found data. All without displaying the data stack. When I 
> do the same thing in Revolution it displays the data stack for a flash. Why 
> does that happen, and how do I stop that data stack from showing?

Better still, you don't need to "go" to a stack to retrieve data from 
it.  You can just get it:

   get fld "Whatever" of cd 200 of stack "MyData.rev"

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From AbilityForms at aol.com  Wed Oct  5 10:52:51 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:52:51 EDT
Subject: Stack Switching Question again
Message-ID: <ba.7bb6d177.307542c3@aol.com>


In a message dated 10/5/05 10:47:20 AM, ambassador at fourthworld.com writes:


> AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > Often times I have a button switch stacks in order to retrieve data that I
> > need to complete that button's task. In HyperCard I could lock the screen, 
> lock
> > the messages, push the card, go to the data stack, retrieve the data, pop 
> the
> > card and insert the found data. All without displaying the data stack. 
> When I
> > do the same thing in Revolution it displays the data stack for a flash. 
> Why
> > does that happen, and how do I stop that data stack from showing?
> 
> Better still, you don't need to "go" to a stack to retrieve data from
> it.? You can just get it:
> 
> ?? get fld "Whatever" of cd 200 of stack "MyData.rev"
> 
> --
> ? Richard Gaskin
> ? Fourth World Media Corporation
> 

Good idea, except for the fact that I have to find the data after I get to 
the data stack.
Joe


From P.Jimmieson at csc.liv.ac.uk  Wed Oct  5 10:58:03 2005
From: P.Jimmieson at csc.liv.ac.uk (Phil Jimmieson)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 15:58:03 +0100
Subject: stack on server very very  slow
In-Reply-To: <95410FB3-612F-4FF5-82B2-4F7B7D809D82@medone.ch>
References: <95410FB3-612F-4FF5-82B2-4F7B7D809D82@medone.ch>
Message-ID: <a06230905bf6999c98afe@[10.1.196.4]>

>In several posts one can read, that a stack, when networked, can be 
>slow, due to the "save"
>statement.
>
>I have a solution on a client computer and the stack is (now) on a server.
>Setup is OS X 10.4
>
>After porting this stack to the server machine, it behaves very slow 
>(more than 1000! times
>slower, than when this stack was on the client. There is no save command used.
>
>I assume that the whole stack is read in memory? There are less than 
>1000 cards in it
>(but they are procecessed a lot).
>
>Thanks for your hints! I should port this Tutorial-Game as server 
>solution soon.

Hi Andreas,
there is a bugzilla report for slow saving, but its marked as 
Resolved, because Tuviah could not verify the bug, although it still 
exists for me (and now possibly you too).

http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=81

In our setup, the server is a Unix system using Samba (not a true 
Windows server). What sort of server are you using?

-- 
Phil Jimmieson  phil at csc.liv.ac.uk  (UK) 0151 794 3689  (Mobile) 07976 983164
Computer Science Dept., Liverpool University, Chadwick Building, Peach Street
Liverpool L69 7ZF              http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~phil/
   I used to sit on a special medical board... ...but now I use this ointment.


From kee at kagi.com  Wed Oct  5 10:59:28 2005
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 07:59:28 -0700
Subject: Speed optimization
In-Reply-To: <395769895.20051005075840@liv.ac.uk>
References: <395769895.20051005075840@liv.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <6641072E-330B-48DC-95AA-48493FB74996@kagi.com>

My favorite way to speed things up is to do something like

put 0 into x

function newTime oldTime,addedSec
       if x mod 100 = 0 then

          -- stuff from smart people in previous posts

       end if
       add 1 to x
end newTime

Do you really need to change that variable every millisecond or would  
once every so often be more than adequate? I adjust the factor (in  
the example 100) so that the display skips a second every so often.

Kee nethery


From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Wed Oct  5 10:48:18 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:48:18 -0400
Subject: ReplaceText and Backslash
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A99682BB@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

Does this work:

Put "\" & quote into tRep
Replace tRep with quote in tString

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Todd Geist
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 3:35 AM
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: ReplaceText and Backslash

Hello,

I have a string that comes from Applescript and it has a bunch of /" in
it.

It looks like this

Script id=\"7\" name=\"New Script 2\" includeInMenu=\"True\"

I would like to replace the Backslash Quote string with just Quote. But
this
does not work.

put  replaceText (theString, backslash & quote, quote)


Any ideas  why?

Thanks

Todd

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From simplsol at aol.com  Wed Oct  5 11:02:40 2005
From: simplsol at aol.com (simplsol at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:02:40 -0400
Subject: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com> <4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>

Richard,
I believe stack "MyData.rev" would have to be open already in order to 
get fld "Whatever".
Paul Looney

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 07:47:04 -0700
Subject: Re: Stack Switching Question

   AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:?
 > Hi Everyone,?
  > > Often times I have a button switch stacks in order to retrieve 
data that I > need to complete that button's task. In HyperCard I could 
lock the screen, lock > the messages, push the card, go to the data 
stack, retrieve the data, pop the > card and insert the found data. All 
without displaying the data stack. When I > do the same thing in 
Revolution it displays the data stack for a flash. Why > does that 
happen, and how do I stop that data stack from showing??
?
  Better still, you don't need to "go" to a stack to retrieve data from 
it. You can just get it:?
?
 ? get fld "Whatever" of cd 200 of stack "MyData.rev"?
?
 -- ?Richard Gaskin?
 ?Fourth World Media Corporation?
 ?___________________________________________________________?
 ?Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com?
 _______________________________________________?
 use-revolution mailing list?
 use-revolution at lists.runrev.com?
  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:?
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution?

    


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Oct  5 11:14:44 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 17:14:44 +0200
Subject: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com> <4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>
	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <26AF1257-A262-41EE-9713-E483C0ED4A00@major-k.de>

Hi Paul,

> Richard,
> I believe stack "MyData.rev" would have to be open already in order  
> to get fld "Whatever".

no, it doesn't :-)

> Paul Looney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 07:47:04 -0700
> Subject: Re: Stack Switching Question
>
>   AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
>  > > Often times I have a button switch stacks in order to retrieve  
> data that I > need to complete that button's task. In HyperCard I  
> could lock the screen, lock > the messages, push the card, go to  
> the data stack, retrieve the data, pop the > card and insert the  
> found data. All without displaying the data stack. When I > do the  
> same thing in Revolution it displays the data stack for a flash.  
> Why > does that happen, and how do I stop that data stack from  
> showing?
>
>  Better still, you don't need to "go" to a stack to retrieve data  
> from it. You can just get it:
>
>   get fld "Whatever" of cd 200 of stack "MyData.rev"
>
> --  Richard Gaskin 
>  Fourth World Media Corporation

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From tjframe at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 11:15:59 2005
From: tjframe at gmail.com (TJ Frame)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 08:15:59 -0700
Subject: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com> <4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>
	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <7348a9e80510050815v7ba16ba4n5b73ece13e3a1ff6@mail.gmail.com>

Then can't you use "go invisible... " ?

 On 10/5/05, simplsol at aol.com <simplsol at aol.com> wrote:
>
> Richard,
> I believe stack "MyData.rev" would have to be open already in order to
> get fld "Whatever".
> Paul Looney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 07:47:04 -0700
> Subject: Re: Stack Switching Question
>
> AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
> > > Often times I have a button switch stacks in order to retrieve
> data that I > need to complete that button's task. In HyperCard I could
> lock the screen, lock > the messages, push the card, go to the data
> stack, retrieve the data, pop the > card and insert the found data. All
> without displaying the data stack. When I > do the same thing in
> Revolution it displays the data stack for a flash. Why > does that
> happen, and how do I stop that data stack from showing?
>
> Better still, you don't need to "go" to a stack to retrieve data from
> it. You can just get it:
>
> get fld "Whatever" of cd 200 of stack "MyData.rev"
>
> -- Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Media Corporation
> ___________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Oct  5 11:18:28 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 08:18:28 -0700
Subject: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com> <4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>
	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com>

simplsol at aol.com wrote:
 >>> Often times I have a button switch stacks in order to retrieve
 >>> data that I need to complete that button's task. In HyperCard
 >>> I could lock the screen, lock the messages, push the card, go
 >>> to the data stack, retrieve the data, pop the card and insert
 >>> the found data. All without displaying the data stack. When I
 >>> do the same thing in Revolution it displays the data stack for
 >>> a flash. Why does that happen, and how do I stop that data
 >>> stack from showing?
 >
 >>  Better still, you don't need to "go" to a stack to retrieve
 >>  data from it. You can just get it:
 >>
 >>   get fld "Whatever" of cd 200 of stack "MyData.rev"
 >
 > I believe stack "MyData.rev" would have to be open already in order to
 > get fld "Whatever".

I used the file name form to illustrate another difference between HC 
and Rev:  while you would indeed need to open a stack in HC in order to 
get stuff out of it, in Rev you can get property values of objects in 
unopened stacks.  When you do that the engine reads the file into memory 
to access what's being requested; if the stack has been accessed before 
it'll stay in memory (unless you turn on the stack's destroyStack 
property), so subsequent accesses will be lightning fast.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Oct  5 11:40:36 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 16:40:36 +0100
Subject: Speed optimization
In-Reply-To: <6641072E-330B-48DC-95AA-48493FB74996@kagi.com>
References: <395769895.20051005075840@liv.ac.uk>
	<6641072E-330B-48DC-95AA-48493FB74996@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <4343F3F4.7010801@tweedly.net>

kee nethery wrote:

> My favorite way to speed things up is to do something like
>
> put 0 into x
>
> function newTime oldTime,addedSec
>       if x mod 100 = 0 then
>
>          -- stuff from smart people in previous posts
>
>       end if
>       add 1 to x
> end newTime
>
> Do you really need to change that variable every millisecond or would  
> once every so often be more than adequate? I adjust the factor (in  
> the example 100) so that the display skips a second every so often.

It wasn't a variable he was changing - it's data from a file. Original 
post said:

>Problem is, it seems slow (I need to do this call
>about 150,000 times each file I process). 
>
(sounds like processing a log file or something similar).

So although your advice is good general advice - it doesn't apply in 
this case :-)

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.10/119 - Release Date: 04/10/2005



From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Oct  5 11:51:34 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 16:51:34 +0100
Subject: Looking for Implementation Advice
In-Reply-To: <001b01c5c98d$fe6ff910$6400a8c0@fusion>
References: <001b01c5c98d$fe6ff910$6400a8c0@fusion>
Message-ID: <4343F686.9080600@tweedly.net>

Mike Doub wrote:

>How would you recommend managing setting up the locations of the buttons? 
>
Depends on whether your app is going to have resizeable windows or not, 
and whether you're going to put it in a scrolling group, and what else 
scrolls, and ....

>Do I just pick an x,y location on the stack and just start making incrementing
>the coordinates?  I guess I need to do some experimenting.
>
The way I usually start something like this is to create a graphic (just 
a box), and make it be the size (and location) I want to put the fancy 
graphics into. If I want to, I control it through the geometry manager 
(or my own geometry management).  Then I can calculate co-ords for the 
text and boxes relative to that (and even use the size if I decide I 
want to let the individual parts stretch). Then once I can see something 
"done", I might get keep the box as a background, or hide it, or remove 
it and use co-ords from the group instead, or ....

>  I am wondering
>if it is possible to create a group, make it invisible, create all of the
>buttons in the group, set the location of the group, and then make the group
>visible.
>
>  
>
Should be - though the time to create and make visible a few hundred 
buttons shouldn't be huge anyway. And the time to make existing buttons 
visible and/or change their location should be even quicker. (Warning - 
the time to delete them can be surprisingly large - so be wary of 
deleting and recreating them).

In some ways, as a user, I quite like to see something happen - so 
having them appear as you go may be OK. If you prefer not to, use 
lockscreen and unlockscreen to make them all just "appear" at once.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.10/119 - Release Date: 04/10/2005



From mark at maseurope.net  Wed Oct  5 11:58:19 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:58:19 +0100
Subject: Stack Switching Question again
In-Reply-To: <ba.7bb6d177.307542c3@aol.com>
References: <ba.7bb6d177.307542c3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <643D1CD8-9719-4BA4-AAE0-822A58F1CD27@maseurope.net>

But you can still just refer to the data stack..

repeat with n = 1 to the number of cds in stack "dataStack"
   repeat for each line L in fld "somedata" of cd n of stack "dataStack"
     if L is whatImAfter then
        doSomethingWith L
     end if
   end repeat
end repeat

the point being that you can refer to, and work with any part of of  
your data stack without ever having to go to it.

Also bear in mind that refering to customProperties is many, many  
times faster than refering to the contents of fields.

Cheers,

Mark


On 5 Oct 2005, at 15:52, AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 10/5/05 10:47:20 AM, ambassador at fourthworld.com  
> writes:
>
>
>
>> AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>
>>> Often times I have a button switch stacks in order to retrieve  
>>> data that I
>>> need to complete that button's task. In HyperCard I could lock  
>>> the screen,
>>>
>> lock
>>
>>> the messages, push the card, go to the data stack, retrieve the  
>>> data, pop
>>>
>> the
>>
>>> card and insert the found data. All without displaying the data  
>>> stack.
>>>
>> When I
>>
>>> do the same thing in Revolution it displays the data stack for a  
>>> flash.
>>>
>> Why
>>
>>> does that happen, and how do I stop that data stack from showing?
>>>
>>
>> Better still, you don't need to "go" to a stack to retrieve data from
>> it.  You can just get it:
>>
>>    get fld "Whatever" of cd 200 of stack "MyData.rev"
>>
>> --
>>   Richard Gaskin
>>   Fourth World Media Corporation
>>
>>
>
> Good idea, except for the fact that I have to find the data after I  
> get to
> the data stack.
> Joe
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From rjb at robelko.com  Wed Oct  5 11:51:13 2005
From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 17:51:13 +0200
Subject: Stack Switching Question again
In-Reply-To: <ba.7bb6d177.307542c3@aol.com>
References: <ba.7bb6d177.307542c3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a06110407bf69a5fd9ac1@[141.89.100.174]>

>In a message dated 10/5/05 10:47:20 AM, ambassador at fourthworld.com writes:
>
>
>>  AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
>>  > Hi Everyone,
>>  >
>>  > Often times I have a button switch stacks in order to retrieve data that I
>>  > need to complete that button's task. In HyperCard I could lock the screen,
>>  lock
>>  > the messages, push the card, go to the data stack, retrieve the data, pop
>>  the
>>  > card and insert the found data. All without displaying the data stack.
>>  When I
>>  > do the same thing in Revolution it displays the data stack for a flash.
>>  Why
>>  > does that happen, and how do I stop that data stack from showing?
>>
>>  Better still, you don't need to "go" to a stack to retrieve data from
>>  it.  You can just get it:
>>
>>     get fld "Whatever" of cd 200 of stack "MyData.rev"
>>
>>  --
>>    Richard Gaskin
>>    Fourth World Media Corporation
>>
>
>Good idea, except for the fact that I have to find the data after I get to
>the data stack.
>Joe

In most cases, all can be done remotely without explicitely going to 
the stack. You can even execute scripts remotely using either send or 
call. If you provide more details, someone may be able to suggest how 
to approach it.

Robert


From lmolina at mdc.edu  Wed Oct  5 12:23:18 2005
From: lmolina at mdc.edu (Louis Molina)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 12:23:18 -0400
Subject: Sound Files
Message-ID: <BF697636.1E4E%lmolina@mdc.edu>

> I need help!!! How do I bring sound to a card?
> 
> The scripts you have don't seem to work. I need to play a aif or a mov file
> when a card opens.
> 
> Please help me!



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Wed Oct  5 13:07:36 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:07:36 -0700
Subject: Determine active OS langguage
In-Reply-To: <D9C4FEEC-198D-4A97-8DC3-39607034D5C5@wanadoo.fr>
References: <D9C4FEEC-198D-4A97-8DC3-39607034D5C5@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <A8E28FC9-1D8B-4DCE-B6F7-015CCB5186F7@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 5, 2005, at 2:37 AM, graham samuel wrote:

> Hi Trevor
>
> Tried your function out on a French Windows XP SP2 system running  
> RunRev 2.6 (after taking out spurious returns) and it didn't work -  
> it just returned "en" because your registry query put nothing into  
> tUserLangs. I am no expert, but it looks to me as if the Registry  
> entries in the French system are under Control Panel\International 
> \iCountry or \sCountry or \sLanguage
>
> The value of iCountry on my system is 33 [which is the  
> international phone code] and of sCountry is France [which is of  
> course both French and English for France - presumably a German  
> system for example would not say 'Germany' but 'Deutschland', but I  
> haven't got a system to test it on) and of sLanguage is FRA. There  
> is also \Locale which is a Hex figure 0000040C.
>
> I'll experiment further it you would like to suggest which  
> direction to take.

Thanks for a taking a look at this Graham.  Let me walk through the  
logic of the function to see where it might be going wrong.

Right now the function queries the "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel 
\International\Locale" which returns the hex value you noted above.   
This hex value is a combination of a primary and sublanguage  
identifier which you can find information about here:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/intl/ 
nls_238z.asp
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/intl/ 
nls_61df.asp
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/intl/ 
nls_19ir.asp

What my code is supposed to do is extract the primary language  
identifier from the registry value which I can compare against the  
documented values that Microsoft provides.

So for French (Standard) we start with the hex value 0x040c (what  
your system has).  In order to extract the primary language  
identifier from the language identifer (0x040c) we need to do a  
bitAND operation.  Somewhere deep in the microsoft site it tells you  
that that value to use for this operation is 0x3FF (or 1023) in  
decimal form but I can't find the reference right now.  Revolution  
requires the decimal form when using bitAND so we end up with this:

get queryRegistry("HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\International 
\Locale") --> RETURNS HEX
get baseConvert(it,16,10) --> CONVERT HEX TO DECIMAL (1036 FOR FRENCH  
STANDARD)
get it bitAND 1023

Using the value you gave for your system (0x040c) the value of it in  
the above transcript ends up being 12 which is what I would expect it  
to be for French.  I wonder if maybe there was a problem when you  
copied and pasted the script.  I uploaded a stack to my user space on  
RevOnline.  Look for getUserLang under "trevordevore".  There is just  
one button to click and it will display the language your os is  
running (for english, french, german, spanish and italian).  Could  
you let me know if that works on your system?  The version of the  
function is slightly updated in the stack so if it does work there  
could have been a problem in my original function.

Thanks,


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Oct  5 13:51:17 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 10:51:17 -0700
Subject: Determine active OS langguage
In-Reply-To: <A8E28FC9-1D8B-4DCE-B6F7-015CCB5186F7@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <BF6960A5.222AA%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Trevor DeVore  wrote:

> Let me walk through the
> logic of the function to see where it might be going wrong.
> ...
> get queryRegistry("HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\International
> \Locale") --> RETURNS HEX
> get baseConvert(it,16,10) --> CONVERT HEX TO DECIMAL (1036 FOR FRENCH
> STANDARD)
> get it bitAND 1023

Without knowing exactly what you're doing, I think you may not need the
bitAND portion of the code.  If you're using the MS provided tables of
locales and/or languages, you only need to get either decimal or hex values.
In the localized projects I've worked on (sometimes 15 languages), this was
all that was needed to determine language and locale of a system.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Wed Oct  5 14:03:55 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 11:03:55 -0700
Subject: Determine active OS langguage
In-Reply-To: <BF6960A5.222AA%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF6960A5.222AA%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <4C689605-7463-4B94-BD19-61C693DF9335@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 5, 2005, at 10:51 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, Trevor DeVore  wrote:
>
>> Let me walk through the
>> logic of the function to see where it might be going wrong.
>> ...
>> get queryRegistry("HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\International
>> \Locale") --> RETURNS HEX
>> get baseConvert(it,16,10) --> CONVERT HEX TO DECIMAL (1036 FOR FRENCH
>> STANDARD)
>> get it bitAND 1023
>
> Without knowing exactly what you're doing, I think you may not need  
> the
> bitAND portion of the code.  If you're using the MS provided tables of
> locales and/or languages, you only need to get either decimal or  
> hex values.
> In the localized projects I've worked on (sometimes 15 languages),  
> this was
> all that was needed to determine language and locale of a system.

The Locale registry key returns the language identifier.  Since a  
language code is a combination of a primary language identifier and a  
sublanguage you have multiple entries for English, French, Chinese,  
etc.  For example there are language identifiers for the following  
entries for English:
English (United States)
English (United Kingdom)
English (Australian)
English (Canadian)
English (New Zealand)
English (Ireland)
English (South Africa)
English (Jamaica)
English (Caribbean)
English (Belize)
English (Trinidad)

By using the bitAND operation I am extracting just the primary  
language identifier from the language identifer for which there is  
only one entry for each language.  Since I am loading an english,  
french, spanish, etc. stack with all of the translated strings this  
is exactly the information I want.  I just check the primary language  
and load the appropriate stack file.  If I didn't use bitAND then I  
would have to check that the language identifier was one of the 11  
different possible values for English.  Does this make sense?

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From andreas at medone.ch  Wed Oct  5 14:06:58 2005
From: andreas at medone.ch (andreas)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 20:06:58 +0200
Subject: stack on server very very  slow
In-Reply-To: <a06230905bf6999c98afe@[10.1.196.4]>
References: <95410FB3-612F-4FF5-82B2-4F7B7D809D82@medone.ch>
	<a06230905bf6999c98afe@[10.1.196.4]>
Message-ID: <E31A9455-B280-45DE-800E-CFE043105CFA@medone.ch>

Hello Phil

thanks for your hint. In this case, the save command works speedy.  
Only stackoperations
take very long. There is a lot of text-processing going on, on many  
fields on many cards.
What surprises me, is exactly this: Why should this take longer than  
with the local stack?
Both, local, as remote, stack should be processed in memory. As the  
RunRev manual states.

-> But: if a stack is sucked in clients memory on opening - then  
there should not be a speed
issue for me. So there is some sort of communication to the remote  
stack. I can see it
on my network gauge!

Client and server are both running OS X 10.4.2, so its using AFS,  
Apple File Sharing.

Yes, it seems, that there is some sort of failure, hope we can track  
this down.
(Tested my AFS connection with other applications. Those have no  
speed issue).

Kind regards

Andreas St?mpfli

Am 05.10.2005 um 16:58 schrieb Phil Jimmieson:

>> In several posts one can read, that a stack, when networked, can  
>> be slow, due to the "save"
>> statement.
>>
>> I have a solution on a client computer and the stack is (now) on a  
>> server.
>> Setup is OS X 10.4
>>
>> After porting this stack to the server machine, it behaves very  
>> slow (more than 1000! times
>> slower, than when this stack was on the client. There is no save  
>> command used.
>>
>> I assume that the whole stack is read in memory? There are less  
>> than 1000 cards in it
>> (but they are procecessed a lot).
>>
>> Thanks for your hints! I should port this Tutorial-Game as server  
>> solution soon.
>>
>
> Hi Andreas,
> there is a bugzilla report for slow saving, but its marked as  
> Resolved, because Tuviah could not verify the bug, although it  
> still exists for me (and now possibly you too).
>
> http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=81
>
> In our setup, the server is a Unix system using Samba (not a true  
> Windows server). What sort of server are you using?
>
> -- 
> Phil Jimmieson  phil at csc.liv.ac.uk  (UK) 0151 794 3689  (Mobile)  
> 07976 983164
> Computer Science Dept., Liverpool University, Chadwick Building,  
> Peach Street
> Liverpool L69 7ZF              http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~phil/
>   I used to sit on a special medical board... ...but now I use this  
> ointment.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From anderson at avinc.com  Wed Oct  5 14:09:35 2005
From: anderson at avinc.com (David Anderson)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 11:09:35 -0700
Subject: Oracle DB Connection
Message-ID: <d393d4b5ef2e181378edfde53c76eefd@avinc.com>

Hello All

I have just purchased the Enterprise license so I can connect to an 
oracle database.  Reading in the documentation, it says:

Oracle:
Oracle database drivers are not included as part of the Revolution 
installation on any platform.

To obtain an Oracle database driver for your platform, visit the Oracle 
web site at <http://www.oracle.com>.


Finding the drivers on the oracle site is confusing to say the least.  
I have oracle database 10g and am using Mac OS X.
I could find JDBC driver downloads which has the 10g drivers, but then 
it also has a Mac OS X subsection with 9i thin JDBC and 8i OCI drivers.

What should I use and how do I install them?

Thanks,
Dave Anderson



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Wed Oct  5 14:16:36 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 19:16:36 +0100
Subject: Setting Custom Property to an Array
In-Reply-To: <FFE05038-4E02-11D9-A82F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
References: <15DB1E60-4DF7-11D9-BBD2-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<69C1D02A-4DF8-11D9-B0D3-000D9337CDC8@mangomultimedia.com>
	<0C43BC56-4DFA-11D9-BBD2-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<756860E4-4DFB-11D9-B0D3-000D9337CDC8@mangomultimedia.com>
	<FFE05038-4E02-11D9-A82F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bf69c89fd81b@[192.168.0.100]>

Hi,

How can I set the Customer Property of a Stack to an array? The 
following does not seem to work:

local myArray

set the cpArray of this stack to myArray

Thanks a lot
Dave


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Wed Oct  5 14:31:31 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 19:31:31 +0100
Subject: Setting Custom Property to an Array
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bf69c89fd81b@[192.168.0.100]>
References: <15DB1E60-4DF7-11D9-BBD2-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<69C1D02A-4DF8-11D9-B0D3-000D9337CDC8@mangomultimedia.com>
	<0C43BC56-4DFA-11D9-BBD2-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<756860E4-4DFB-11D9-B0D3-000D9337CDC8@mangomultimedia.com>
	<FFE05038-4E02-11D9-A82F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<a05210600bf69c89fd81b@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <40800007-FC3D-457D-A3B8-247BEB01C5BD@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 5 Oct 2005, at 19:16, David Burgun wrote:

> Hi,
>
> How can I set the Customer Property of a Stack to an array? The  
> following does not seem to work:
>
> local myArray
>
> set the cpArray of this stack to myArray

set the customProperties["cpArray"] of this stack to myArray

Cheers
Dave


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Oct  5 14:33:08 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:33:08 -0700
Subject: Determine active OS langguage
In-Reply-To: <4C689605-7463-4B94-BD19-61C693DF9335@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <BF696A74.222BD%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Trevor DeVore  wrote:

>> Without knowing exactly what you're doing, I think you may not need
>> the
>> bitAND portion of the code.  If you're using the MS provided tables of
>> locales and/or languages, you only need to get either decimal or
>> hex values.
>> In the localized projects I've worked on (sometimes 15 languages),
>> this was
>> all that was needed to determine language and locale of a system.
> 
> The Locale registry key returns the language identifier.  Since a
> language code is a combination of a primary language identifier and a
> sublanguage you have multiple entries for English, French, Chinese,
> etc.  For example there are language identifiers for the following
> entries for English:
> English (United States)
> English (United Kingdom)
> English (Australian)
> English (Canadian)
> English (New Zealand)
> English (Ireland)
> English (South Africa)
> English (Jamaica)
> English (Caribbean)
> English (Belize)
> English (Trinidad)
> 
> By using the bitAND operation I am extracting just the primary
> language identifier from the language identifer for which there is
> only one entry for each language.  Since I am loading an english,
> french, spanish, etc. stack with all of the translated strings this
> is exactly the information I want.  I just check the primary language
> and load the appropriate stack file.  If I didn't use bitAND then I
> would have to check that the language identifier was one of the 11
> different possible values for English.  Does this make sense?

It's been a long time since I did this but I think all you need to do is
grab the last two digits of the language identifier code.  If you look at
MS's table, you'll see that groups of related languages (such as English)
all end with the same two digits.  This was all I needed find to determine
primary language.  Just offering this as an option in case there's any issue
with your current code.

(Looking back through some code, I seem to recall there being one exception
for Chinese, but otherwise this tested out by a QA lab to be reliable for my
purposes.)

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Wed Oct  5 15:05:46 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 12:05:46 -0700
Subject: Determine active OS langguage
In-Reply-To: <BF696A74.222BD%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF696A74.222BD%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <83AB09BC-BB3A-4AA1-BEC8-FC2BECEDB86E@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 5, 2005, at 11:33 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:
>
> It's been a long time since I did this but I think all you need to  
> do is
> grab the last two digits of the language identifier code.  If you  
> look at
> MS's table, you'll see that groups of related languages (such as  
> English)
> all end with the same two digits.  This was all I needed find to  
> determine
> primary language.  Just offering this as an option in case there's  
> any issue
> with your current code.

OK, I see what you are saying.  I am pretty sure the bitAND code is  
working properly and it does return the values listed in the  
Microsoft docs for primary languages.  These basically match the last  
two digits of the language identifiers that you are looking at in  
your code.

Based on the fact that Graham said that the queryRegistry was  
returning empty in the function I posted I think he had some line  
wrap problems with the queryRegistry line.  I imagine there is an  
extra or missing space in the registry key when he tested.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct  5 15:19:23 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 14:19:23 -0500
Subject: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com>
	<4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
	<4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <4344273B.5030208@hyperactivesw.com>

Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I used the file name form to illustrate another difference between HC 
> and Rev:  while you would indeed need to open a stack in HC in order to 
> get stuff out of it, in Rev you can get property values of objects in 
> unopened stacks.  When you do that the engine reads the file into memory 
> to access what's being requested; if the stack has been accessed before 
> it'll stay in memory (unless you turn on the stack's destroyStack 
> property), so subsequent accesses will be lightning fast.

Just an addendum: Actually, I've been using this technique on multiple 
stacks, and found that once accessed, the stack stays open until you 
explicitly close it regardless of its destroystack settings. I found 
this out after I accessed data from a ton of external stacks and then 
discovered them all open later on. I had to specifically close them to 
remove them from RAM (their destroystack was true, so that did the 
trick.) If an accessed stack has its destroystack set to false, just 
closing it won't be enough, the script will have to delete it as well. 
(I know you already know that, Richard, just mentioning it for 
completeness.)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From mark at maseurope.net  Wed Oct  5 15:28:47 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 20:28:47 +0100
Subject: Setting Custom Property to an Array
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bf69c89fd81b@[192.168.0.100]>
References: <15DB1E60-4DF7-11D9-BBD2-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<69C1D02A-4DF8-11D9-B0D3-000D9337CDC8@mangomultimedia.com>
	<0C43BC56-4DFA-11D9-BBD2-000A27B49A96@major-k.de>
	<756860E4-4DFB-11D9-B0D3-000D9337CDC8@mangomultimedia.com>
	<FFE05038-4E02-11D9-A82F-000A9567A3E6@swcp.com>
	<a05210600bf69c89fd81b@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <A94AE070-6108-48B4-918D-960F864103B1@maseurope.net>

Dave, you can have pretty much as many Custom Property Sets as you  
like. Each custom property set is an array. You can store an array in  
a custom property set as Dave Cragg has shown ie: set the  
CustomProperties["myData"] of this stack to myArray.

You can also then refer to the individual elements as -  ' set the  
myData["myElement"] of this stack to myValue '.
Note also that any object in Rev can have custom properties and  
custom property sets, so instead of 'this stack' in the example, you  
could have
' get the myData["myElement"] of btn "myBtn" of cd 22 of stack  
"aStack" '.

It can be a little confusing until you get the fact that ' the  
customProperties["mydata"] ' refers to the customPropertySet that '  
the myData["myElement"] ' is an element of.

Cheers,

Mark

On 5 Oct 2005, at 19:16, David Burgun wrote:


> Hi,
>
> How can I set the Customer Property of a Stack to an array? The  
> following does not seem to work:
>
> local myArray
>
> set the cpArray of this stack to myArray
>
> Thanks a lot
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>




From andreas at medone.ch  Wed Oct  5 15:43:04 2005
From: andreas at medone.ch (andreas)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 21:43:04 +0200
Subject: stack on server very very  slow: solution for workaround
In-Reply-To: <E31A9455-B280-45DE-800E-CFE043105CFA@medone.ch>
References: <95410FB3-612F-4FF5-82B2-4F7B7D809D82@medone.ch>
	<a06230905bf6999c98afe@[10.1.196.4]>
	<E31A9455-B280-45DE-800E-CFE043105CFA@medone.ch>
Message-ID: <B340015B-7219-49D7-B8EB-0FD9FC02ECEE@medone.ch>

Hello Phil

strange workaround to gain back speed on server stored stacks:  :-)

There are two ways to gain access to a remote stack:

I) The easy  way:   (NOT WORKING)
set the stackFiles of this stack to "deutsch1.rev," & ServerVerzeichnis
   put "deutsch1.rev" into PlugIn
   open stack PlugIn

-> This way the stack on the remote machine can be simply accessed by  
calling: stack PlugIn

II) The ugly way: (WORKING FAST)
using the "Open Stack..." menue in the Revolution dev environment.


Why? I think this is a bug. I would expect the same result for both  
possibilitys ( I. and II.).


(I am not sure if this could cure your problem also).

Kind regards

Andreas St?mpfli




Am 05.10.2005 um 20:06 schrieb andreas:


> Hello Phil
>
> thanks for your hint. In this case, the save command works speedy.  
> Only stackoperations
> take very long. There is a lot of text-processing going on, on many  
> fields on many cards.
> What surprises me, is exactly this: Why should this take longer  
> than with the local stack?
> Both, local, as remote, stack should be processed in memory. As the  
> RunRev manual states.
>
> -> But: if a stack is sucked in clients memory on opening - then  
> there should not be a speed
> issue for me. So there is some sort of communication to the remote  
> stack. I can see it
> on my network gauge!
>
> Client and server are both running OS X 10.4.2, so its using AFS,  
> Apple File Sharing.
>
> Yes, it seems, that there is some sort of failure, hope we can  
> track this down.
> (Tested my AFS connection with other applications. Those have no  
> speed issue).
>
> Kind regards
>
> Andreas St?mpfli
>
> Am 05.10.2005 um 16:58 schrieb Phil Jimmieson:
>
>
>
>>> In several posts one can read, that a stack, when networked, can  
>>> be slow, due to the "save"
>>> statement.
>>>
>>> I have a solution on a client computer and the stack is (now) on  
>>> a server.
>>> Setup is OS X 10.4
>>>
>>> After porting this stack to the server machine, it behaves very  
>>> slow (more than 1000! times
>>> slower, than when this stack was on the client. There is no save  
>>> command used.
>>>
>>> I assume that the whole stack is read in memory? There are less  
>>> than 1000 cards in it
>>> (but they are procecessed a lot).
>>>
>>> Thanks for your hints! I should port this Tutorial-Game as server  
>>> solution soon.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Hi Andreas,
>> there is a bugzilla report for slow saving, but its marked as  
>> Resolved, because Tuviah could not verify the bug, although it  
>> still exists for me (and now possibly you too).
>>
>> http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=81
>>
>> In our setup, the server is a Unix system using Samba (not a true  
>> Windows server). What sort of server are you using?
>>
>> -- 
>> Phil Jimmieson  phil at csc.liv.ac.uk  (UK) 0151 794 3689  (Mobile)  
>> 07976 983164
>> Computer Science Dept., Liverpool University, Chadwick Building,  
>> Peach Street
>> Liverpool L69 7ZF              http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~phil/
>>   I used to sit on a special medical board... ...but now I use  
>> this ointment.
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Oct  5 16:04:33 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 13:04:33 -0700
Subject: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <4344273B.5030208@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com>	<4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>	<4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com>
	<4344273B.5030208@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <434431D1.7020601@fourthworld.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:
> Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> I used the file name form to illustrate another difference between HC 
>> and Rev:  while you would indeed need to open a stack in HC in order 
>> to get stuff out of it, in Rev you can get property values of objects 
>> in unopened stacks.  When you do that the engine reads the file into 
>> memory to access what's being requested; if the stack has been 
>> accessed before it'll stay in memory (unless you turn on the stack's 
>> destroyStack property), so subsequent accesses will be lightning fast.
> 
> 
> Just an addendum: Actually, I've been using this technique on multiple 
> stacks, and found that once accessed, the stack stays open until you 
> explicitly close it regardless of its destroystack settings. I found 
> this out after I accessed data from a ton of external stacks and then 
> discovered them all open later on. I had to specifically close them to 
> remove them from RAM (their destroystack was true, so that did the 
> trick.) If an accessed stack has its destroystack set to false, just 
> closing it won't be enough, the script will have to delete it as well. 
> (I know you already know that, Richard, just mentioning it for 
> completeness.)


Actually I didn't know that. Is that a bug?  It rather invalidates the 
destroyStack property, no?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Wed Oct  5 16:50:00 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 21:50:00 +0100
Subject: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <434431D1.7020601@fourthworld.com>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com>	<4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>	<4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com>
	<4344273B.5030208@hyperactivesw.com>
	<434431D1.7020601@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <75C1580B-9C31-423F-AF86-EF7B59C235B3@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 5 Oct 2005, at 21:04, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
>> Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>>> I used the file name form to illustrate another difference  
>>> between HC and Rev:  while you would indeed need to open a stack  
>>> in HC in order to get stuff out of it, in Rev you can get  
>>> property values of objects in unopened stacks.  When you do that  
>>> the engine reads the file into memory to access what's being  
>>> requested; if the stack has been accessed before it'll stay in  
>>> memory (unless you turn on the stack's destroyStack property), so  
>>> subsequent accesses will be lightning fast.
>>>
>> Just an addendum: Actually, I've been using this technique on  
>> multiple stacks, and found that once accessed, the stack stays  
>> open until you explicitly close it regardless of its destroystack  
>> settings. I found this out after I accessed data from a ton of  
>> external stacks and then discovered them all open later on. I had  
>> to specifically close them to remove them from RAM (their  
>> destroystack was true, so that did the trick.) If an accessed  
>> stack has its destroystack set to false, just closing it won't be  
>> enough, the script will have to delete it as well. (I know you  
>> already know that, Richard, just mentioning it for completeness.)
>>
>
>
> Actually I didn't know that. Is that a bug?  It rather invalidates  
> the destroyStack property, no?
>

I think we could debate that one for a month or two. :-)

I suppose the destroyStack is intended to apply when a stack is  
closed, and therefore has been explicitly opened earlier. Referencing  
an external stack isn't the same as opening it.

Like Jacque, I've been caught out with stacks in memory when I'd long  
forgotten about. However, one practical problem for the engine to  
overcome would be to determine when it should purge the stack.  
Typically, when I reference an external stack, I'm likely to make a  
few references to it within a handler. Having to reload the stack for  
each reference could introduce an overhead. (Perhaps referenced  
stacks should be purged when any currently running handlers finish.)

Meanwhile, I try to remember to specifically delete each externally  
referenced stack.

Cheers
Dave


From devinasay at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 17:20:41 2005
From: devinasay at gmail.com (Devin Asay)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 15:20:41 -0600
Subject: Machine network names
In-Reply-To: <4341B811.30906@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <4341B811.30906@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <F92891CA-DAD8-40E1-A7B6-80285D3B44D7@byu.edu>

Jacque,

I'm tardy here, but didn't see any replies.

Could you write a shell script that ssh'ed to the remote machine,  
then check the $HOST variable. Kinda roundabout, I know.

Or how about just getting the number of bytes of data on each disk.  
Not guaranteed to be unique, but the chances of duplicated numbers  
would be miniscule.

Devin

On Oct 3, 2005, at 5:00 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> I want to know the network name of a remote machine on a network.  
> For a local machine, I can get "the address" and the first part of  
> the address is the name I'm looking for.  But on a remote, mounted  
> volume "the address" doesn't include its machine name. Any ideas? I  
> only need this for Mac OS X, but it has to work for all but the  
> earliest versions of OS X.
>
> If I can't easily get the network name, then any unique identifying  
> info would do. I considered getting the machine ID using Ken Ray's  
> "stsGetSerialNumber" handler, but it only returns the serial  
> numbers of local hard drives.
>
> The only requirements are: it has to be a unique identifier, and it  
> has to be obtainable both remotely and locally.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University



From mlange at lexicall.org  Tue Oct  4 13:50:53 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 18:50:53 +0100
Subject: Export/Import Stacks as XML
Message-ID: <228A8730-47D3-4BE0-B400-463767700AFF@lexicall.org>

Hi David,


... obviously, I don't check the revolution digest everyday ;-).

>>> Whats - the interest? Is there not something going on with  
>>> standards based file formats for education or...??? or do I have  
>>> crossed wires?
>>
>> David, what do you mean by "something going on with standards  
>> based file formats for education"?
>>
>
> I wish I knew :) Like you I have been interested in XUL, and  
> somewhere in the mix xml based file formats and web services. In  
> the mix there is the whole discourse on "Learning Objects". I  
> remember scanning what looked like a conversation along these lines  
> somewhere on the list a few months back - or I may have dreamt it -  
> DreamCard and all.

It's archived at:
<http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php? 
page=EducationWhatIsNeeded>

> Doubtless there are other hearty folks on this list thinking or  
> dreaming along the same lines. The aim is to see Revolution as a  
> Rapid development framework for open source components - it's  
> figuring out how to make them open source that is the tricky bit.

Another tricky bit is how to get financial support to develop open  
source :-). I applied for funding for these projects... but I was  
told either "we love your ideas but we have money only for 2-3  
months". This is research not applied (for the ones funding applied  
projects). This is applied not research (for the ones funding  
research projects). The development of reliable applications requires  
time and professionalism. There doesn't seem to be yet recognition of  
this in the academic world (at least not the one I live in -  
Humanities).

Marielle

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
----------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage:  http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Lexicall: http://lexicall.org
Revolution-education: http://revolution.lexicall.org



From soapdog at mac.com  Wed Oct  5 17:50:31 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 18:50:31 -0300
Subject: Machine network names
In-Reply-To: <4341B811.30906@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <4341B811.30906@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <5B65FC5F-38DA-4DAE-9CF1-F6241C77E103@mac.com>

Jacque,

Is this program running on remote machine or local machine wondering  
about a remote connection?

Some way to do this is by using reverse dns lookup. you can use "host  
<ip address>" on a shell command to resolve it back to the hostname  
but this works only with registered ips. From your email I thing  
you're mounting remote volumes (which might have the same name) and  
trying to give each of them their own unique ID. Well why not  
pregenerate tons of unique IDs and assigning them as temporary files  
on the remote volumes, this way you could just query /RemoteVolume/ 
myUniqueID.txt and see who is who... don't know, this feels like a  
hack. What are you trying to do and what information you have on the  
remote machines?

Cheers
andre



On Oct 3, 2005, at 8:00 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> I want to know the network name of a remote machine on a network.  
> For a local machine, I can get "the address" and the first part of  
> the address is the name I'm looking for.  But on a remote, mounted  
> volume "the address" doesn't include its machine name. Any ideas? I  
> only need this for Mac OS X, but it has to work for all but the  
> earliest versions of OS X.
>
> If I can't easily get the network name, then any unique identifying  
> info would do. I considered getting the machine ID using Ken Ray's  
> "stsGetSerialNumber" handler, but it only returns the serial  
> numbers of local hard drives.
>
> The only requirements are: it has to be a unique identifier, and it  
> has to be obtainable both remotely and locally.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From Stgoldberg at aol.com  Wed Oct  5 21:19:58 2005
From: Stgoldberg at aol.com (Stgoldberg at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 21:19:58 EDT
Subject: Bizarre problem of disappearing pictures on reducing stack size
Message-ID: <19f.3db4c34c.3075d5be@aol.com>

Yes, Jaqueline, that seems to be the problem.   The missing pictures are all 
in the same place and same size and correct layer, but getting the imagedata 
of the missing images comes up empty, unlike the other images.   I don't know 
why, but thanks for the clarification.   
Another mystery, sometimes the stack size came up reduced, other times (most) 
not. I seem to be delving into the occult arts.

Chipp Walters offered another way to reduce the image and stack size with the 
following script:

on mouseUp
    put the id of img 1 into tImgID
    flattenImage tImgID
end mouseUp

on flattenImage pImgID
    get the rect of img ID pImgID
    set the rect of img ID pImgID to 0,0,10,10
    set the resizeQuality of img ID pImgID to best
    set the rect of img ID pImgID to it
    put the alphadata of img ID pImgID into tAD
    put the imagedata of img ID pImgID into tID
    set the alphadata of img ID pImgID to tAD
    set the imagedata of img ID pImgID to tID
end flattenImage

Setting the resizeQuality to 'best' uses bilinear interpolation for the
resize, much better than the standard nearest neighbor interpolation.

Once you set it to best, you need to resize it for it to take effect,
thus the changing of the rect of the img.

Also, this will work with transparent png's as well.

I tried this but, for some reason the stack size increased rather than 
decreased.   I must be doing something wrong since Chipp is the master.   Chipp, 
Sarah, Jacqueline, Phil -- if you have any further suggestions, I'm listening.   
Thanks.
Steve Goldberg

In a message dated 10/4/05 7:46:31 PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes:


> From: "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> Subject: Re: Bizarre problem of disappearing pictures on reducing
> ? ? stack size
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <4342C343.7050506 at hyperactivesw.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Stgoldberg at aol.com wrote:
> > However, all of the
> > "arrows" pictures in the stack disappeared. They would no longer appear 
> with the
> > command?? 'show image "arrows"' or on turning on "Show Invisible Objects"
> > from the view menu.?? The "arrows" pictures could not be found, but 
> strangely
> > they still were listed in the Application Browser.
> 
> If none of the other suggestions work, try getting the imagedata of one
> of the "missing" images. It may be that your automated script
> accidentally put empty into those. That would mean you still have image
> objects, but they contain no bitmap data. I've done that myself.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay? ? ? ?? |? ?? jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software? ? ? ? ?? |? ?? http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 



From jsng at wayoflife.org  Wed Oct  5 21:32:34 2005
From: jsng at wayoflife.org (Jesse Sng)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:32:34 +0800
Subject: Early Update Pack
In-Reply-To: <5B65FC5F-38DA-4DAE-9CF1-F6241C77E103@mac.com>
References: <4341B811.30906@hyperactivesw.com>
	<5B65FC5F-38DA-4DAE-9CF1-F6241C77E103@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p0621022bbf6a2ea06dcf@[192.168.0.140]>

Hi,

I'm curious about what's the advantage of the Early Update Pack for 
Rev Studio. As a developer who's delivering a project, is it 
advantageous to sign up for it?

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is whether the Early Update 
allows me to tap in early into bug fixes or is this more to tap into 
early releases of new features? When bringing a new system online, I 
would rather take more bug fixes and less new features so I'm not 
sure if this is for me or not.

Perhaps someone who's on the programme might want to comment on this. Thanks.


Jesse Sng


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct  5 23:01:23 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 22:01:23 -0500
Subject: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <75C1580B-9C31-423F-AF86-EF7B59C235B3@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com>	<4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>	<4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com>	<4344273B.5030208@hyperactivesw.com>	<434431D1.7020601@fourthworld.com>
	<75C1580B-9C31-423F-AF86-EF7B59C235B3@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <43449383.6030505@hyperactivesw.com>

Dave Cragg wrote:
> 
> On 5 Oct 2005, at 21:04, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> J. Landman Gay wrote:
>>
>>> Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>>
>>>> I used the file name form to illustrate another difference  between 
>>>> HC and Rev:  while you would indeed need to open a stack  in HC in 
>>>> order to get stuff out of it, in Rev you can get  property values of 
>>>> objects in unopened stacks.  When you do that  the engine reads the 
>>>> file into memory to access what's being  requested; if the stack has 
>>>> been accessed before it'll stay in  memory (unless you turn on the 
>>>> stack's destroyStack property), so  subsequent accesses will be 
>>>> lightning fast.
>>>>
>>> Just an addendum: Actually, I've been using this technique on  
>>> multiple stacks, and found that once accessed, the stack stays  open 
>>> until you explicitly close it regardless of its destroystack  
>>> settings. I found this out after I accessed data from a ton of  
>>> external stacks and then discovered them all open later on. I had  to 
>>> specifically close them to remove them from RAM (their  destroystack 
>>> was true, so that did the trick.) If an accessed  stack has its 
>>> destroystack set to false, just closing it won't be  enough, the 
>>> script will have to delete it as well. (I know you  already know 
>>> that, Richard, just mentioning it for completeness.)
>>>
>>
>>
>> Actually I didn't know that. Is that a bug?  It rather invalidates  
>> the destroyStack property, no?
>>
> 
> I think we could debate that one for a month or two. :-)
> 
> I suppose the destroyStack is intended to apply when a stack is  closed, 
> and therefore has been explicitly opened earlier. Referencing  an 
> external stack isn't the same as opening it.

To me, it is like opening a stack invisibly without any system messages. 
At least, that's how I think of it. Destroystack applies to referenced 
stacks just as it does to stacked opened other ways -- when a script 
closes them, they are removed from memory if that property is set to 
true. Otherwise, a script must issue a "delete stack" command to get rid 
of it.

> 
> Like Jacque, I've been caught out with stacks in memory when I'd long  
> forgotten about. However, one practical problem for the engine to  
> overcome would be to determine when it should purge the stack.  
> Typically, when I reference an external stack, I'm likely to make a  few 
> references to it within a handler. Having to reload the stack for  each 
> reference could introduce an overhead. (Perhaps referenced  stacks 
> should be purged when any currently running handlers finish.)
> 
> Meanwhile, I try to remember to specifically delete each externally  
> referenced stack.

After some thought, I think the current implementation is correct. 
Destroystack doesn't (and shouldn't) control whether or not a stack 
closes, it just manages the stack's behavior when it does close.

In my situation, I sometimes need to refer to a stack repeatedly across 
handlers, and other times only need it once. I don't think I want the 
engine deciding for me when the stack should close, I'd rather control 
that myself. As long as I know that referencing a stack loads it into 
memory, closing it later at my convenience isn't a problem.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Oct  5 23:19:01 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:19:01 -0700
Subject: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <43449383.6030505@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com>	<4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>	<4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com>	<4344273B.5030208@hyperactivesw.com>	<434431D1.7020601@fourthworld.com>	<75C1580B-9C31-423F-AF86-EF7B59C235B3@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<43449383.6030505@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <434497A5.6060904@fourthworld.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:
> Dave Cragg wrote:
> 
>>
>> On 5 Oct 2005, at 21:04, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>>> J. Landman Gay wrote:
>>>
>>>> Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I used the file name form to illustrate another difference  between 
>>>>> HC and Rev:  while you would indeed need to open a stack  in HC in 
>>>>> order to get stuff out of it, in Rev you can get  property values 
>>>>> of objects in unopened stacks.  When you do that  the engine reads 
>>>>> the file into memory to access what's being  requested; if the 
>>>>> stack has been accessed before it'll stay in  memory (unless you 
>>>>> turn on the stack's destroyStack property), so  subsequent accesses 
>>>>> will be lightning fast.
>>>>>
>>>> Just an addendum: Actually, I've been using this technique on  
>>>> multiple stacks, and found that once accessed, the stack stays  open 
>>>> until you explicitly close it regardless of its destroystack  
>>>> settings. I found this out after I accessed data from a ton of  
>>>> external stacks and then discovered them all open later on. I had  
>>>> to specifically close them to remove them from RAM (their  
>>>> destroystack was true, so that did the trick.) If an accessed  stack 
>>>> has its destroystack set to false, just closing it won't be  enough, 
>>>> the script will have to delete it as well. (I know you  already know 
>>>> that, Richard, just mentioning it for completeness.)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Actually I didn't know that. Is that a bug?  It rather invalidates  
>>> the destroyStack property, no?
>>>
>>
>> I think we could debate that one for a month or two. :-)
>>
>> I suppose the destroyStack is intended to apply when a stack is  
>> closed, and therefore has been explicitly opened earlier. Referencing  
>> an external stack isn't the same as opening it.
> 
> 
> To me, it is like opening a stack invisibly without any system messages. 
> At least, that's how I think of it. Destroystack applies to referenced 
> stacks just as it does to stacked opened other ways -- when a script 
> closes them, they are removed from memory if that property is set to 
> true. Otherwise, a script must issue a "delete stack" command to get rid 
> of it.
>
>> Like Jacque, I've been caught out with stacks in memory when I'd long  
>> forgotten about. However, one practical problem for the engine to  
>> overcome would be to determine when it should purge the stack.  
>> Typically, when I reference an external stack, I'm likely to make a  
>> few references to it within a handler. Having to reload the stack for  
>> each reference could introduce an overhead. (Perhaps referenced  
>> stacks should be purged when any currently running handlers finish.)
>>
>> Meanwhile, I try to remember to specifically delete each externally  
>> referenced stack.
> 
> 
> After some thought, I think the current implementation is correct. 
> Destroystack doesn't (and shouldn't) control whether or not a stack 
> closes, it just manages the stack's behavior when it does close.

Of course but the stack is never truly open, so it's not about closing 
at all but about purging, something we don't have a token for.

> In my situation, I sometimes need to refer to a stack repeatedly across 
> handlers, and other times only need it once. I don't think I want the 
> engine deciding for me when the stack should close, I'd rather control 
> that myself. As long as I know that referencing a stack loads it into 
> memory, closing it later at my convenience isn't a problem.

I'm on the fence on this one, esp. given that "delete stack" sometimes 
purges a stack and at other times actually deletes a stack.

If we had a "purge stack" command I'd happily go along with leaving 
control in the hands of the developer.

Maybe we could add "purge stack" at the same time as we rename the 
unnecessarily alarming "destroyStack" property to something more closely 
related to what it does. :)

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct  5 23:54:18 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 22:54:18 -0500
Subject: Machine network names
In-Reply-To: <F92891CA-DAD8-40E1-A7B6-80285D3B44D7@byu.edu>
References: <4341B811.30906@hyperactivesw.com>
	<F92891CA-DAD8-40E1-A7B6-80285D3B44D7@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <43449FEA.4030907@hyperactivesw.com>

Devin Asay wrote:
 > Jacque,
 >
 > I'm tardy here, but didn't see any replies.
 >
 > Could you write a shell script that ssh'ed to the remote machine,
 > then check the $HOST variable. Kinda roundabout, I know.
 >
 > Or how about just getting the number of bytes of data on each disk.
 > Not guaranteed to be unique, but the chances of duplicated numbers
 > would be miniscule.

And Andre Garzia also wrote:

 > Is this program running on remote machine or local machine wondering
 > about a remote connection?
 >
 > Some way to do this is by using reverse dns lookup. you can use "host
 > <ip address>" on a shell command to resolve it back to the hostname
 > but this works only with registered ips. From your email I thing
 > you're mounting remote volumes (which might have the same name) and
 > trying to give each of them their own unique ID. Well why not
 > pregenerate tons of unique IDs and assigning them as temporary files
 > on the remote volumes, this way you could just query /RemoteVolume/
 > myUniqueID.txt and see who is who... don't know, this feels like a
 > hack. What are you trying to do and what information you have on the
 > remote machines?


You guys are too geeky. :) I figured out way to do it, I think.

What I'm doing: I need to create an encrypted ID that is tied to a 
particular machine, for licensing purposes, which is why I need a 
machine-unique identifier. However, the program also needs to run from a 
server. So, I need to get the identity of the host machine so that I can 
calculate a correct ID.

After some googling, I found that all the machine-specific info on an OS 
X installation is stored in this file:

/Library/Preferences/SystemConfiguration/preferences.plist

The file exists on all versions of OS X I have checked, back to at least 
early Jaguar. It has "read" privileges for everyone. Once I discovered 
that, it was a simple matter to write a handler that just opens the file 
on the server, reads it, and parses out the machine info. No shell 
commands or anything else necessary, just plain Transcript.

What I eventually decided to use for the unique machine ID -- instead of 
its network name -- was the host machine's MAC address. This handler 
gets that info, regardless of whether the program is running locally or 
remotely:

function getmachineID
   -- get the host's MAC address whether running locally or from server:
   put the address into tAddr
   set the itemDel to slash
   if tAddr contains "Volumes/" and CDPath() is not in tAddr then -- 
assume running on server
     put "/" & item 2 to 3 of tAddr into tConfigPath
   else -- local copy, or from CD
     put empty into tConfigPath
   end if
   put "/Library/Preferences/SystemConfiguration/preferences.plist" 
after tConfigPath
   put "" into tMacAddr
   if there is a file tConfigPath then
     put url ("file:"&tConfigPath) into tConfig
     put line lineoffset("MACAddress",tConfig)+1 of tConfig into tMacAddr
     delete char 1 to offset(">",tMacAddr) of tMacAddr
     delete char offset("<",tMacAddr) to -1 of tMacAddr
   end if
   return tMacAddr -- empty if failed
end getmachineID

The CDPath() function just returns a string consisting of the path to 
the install CD (just in case it is in the drive.) This handler seems to 
work so far, but if anyone notices any snafus I haven't considered, it 
would be good to know.

 >
 > On Oct 3, 2005, at 5:00 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
 >
 >> I want to know the network name of a remote machine on a network.
 >> For a local machine, I can get "the address" and the first part of
 >> the address is the name I'm looking for.  But on a remote, mounted
 >> volume "the address" doesn't include its machine name. Any ideas? I
 >> only need this for Mac OS X, but it has to work for all but the
 >> earliest versions of OS X.
 >>
 >> If I can't easily get the network name, then any unique identifying
 >>  info would do. I considered getting the machine ID using Ken Ray's
 >>  "stsGetSerialNumber" handler, but it only returns the serial
 >> numbers of local hard drives.
 >>
 >> The only requirements are: it has to be a unique identifier, and it
 >>  has to be obtainable both remotely and locally.
 >>
 >> -- Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
 >> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
 >> _______________________________________________ use-revolution
 >> mailing list use-revolution at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url
 >> to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
 >>  http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Oct  6 00:14:41 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 23:14:41 -0500
Subject: Bizarre problem of disappearing pictures on reducing stack size
In-Reply-To: <19f.3db4c34c.3075d5be@aol.com>
References: <19f.3db4c34c.3075d5be@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4344A4B1.1030706@chipp.com>

Steve,

Feel free to send me the stack in question (as long as it's not larger 
than 2 Mb - I have a slow connection here at the ranch). I'll take a 
look and get back to you.

best,

Chipp
chippATchippDOTcom

Stgoldberg at aol.com wrote:

> I tried this but, for some reason the stack size increased rather than 
> decreased.   I must be doing something wrong since Chipp is the master.   Chipp, 
> Sarah, Jacqueline, Phil -- if you have any further suggestions, I'm listening.   
> Thanks.
> Steve Goldberg



From simplsol at aol.com  Thu Oct  6 00:25:22 2005
From: simplsol at aol.com (simplsol at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 00:25:22 -0400
Subject: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <434497A5.6060904@fourthworld.com>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com>	<4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>	<4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com>	<4344273B.5030208@hyperactivesw.com>	<434431D1.7020601@fourthworld.com>	<75C1580B-9C31-423F-AF86-EF7B59C235B3@lacscentre.co.uk>	<43449383.6030505@hyperactivesw.com>
	<434497A5.6060904@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <8C798451A29F52E-3E4-28C2@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>

Richard, Jacque, et. al.,
By "destroyStack" don't we always mean "purge stack"?
PL

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:19:01 -0700
Subject: Re: Stack Switching Question

   J. Landman Gay wrote:?
 > Dave Cragg wrote:?
 > >>?
 >> On 5 Oct 2005, at 21:04, Richard Gaskin wrote:?
 >>?
 >>> J. Landman Gay wrote:?
 >>>?
 >>>> Richard Gaskin wrote:?
 >>>>?
  >>>>> I used the file name form to illustrate another difference 
between >>>>> HC and Rev: while you would indeed need to open a stack 
in HC in >>>>> order to get stuff out of it, in Rev you can get 
property values >>>>> of objects in unopened stacks. When you do that 
the engine reads >>>>> the file into memory to access what's being 
requested; if the >>>>> stack has been accessed before it'll stay in 
memory (unless you >>>>> turn on the stack's destroyStack property), so 
subsequent accesses >>>>> will be lightning fast.?
 >>>>>?
  >>>> Just an addendum: Actually, I've been using this technique on 
 >>>> multiple stacks, and found that once accessed, the stack stays 
open >>>> until you explicitly close it regardless of its destroystack 
 >>>> settings. I found this out after I accessed data from a ton of 
 >>>> external stacks and then discovered them all open later on. I had 
 >>>> to specifically close them to remove them from RAM (their >>>> 
destroystack was true, so that did the trick.) If an accessed stack 
 >>>> has its destroystack set to false, just closing it won't be 
enough, >>>> the script will have to delete it as well. (I know you 
already know >>>> that, Richard, just mentioning it for completeness.)?
 >>>>?
 >>>?
 >>>?
  >>> Actually I didn't know that. Is that a bug? It rather invalidates 
>>> the destroyStack property, no??
 >>>?
 >>?
 >> I think we could debate that one for a month or two. :-)?
 >>?
  >> I suppose the destroyStack is intended to apply when a stack is >> 
closed, and therefore has been explicitly opened earlier. Referencing 
>> an external stack isn't the same as opening it.?
  > > > To me, it is like opening a stack invisibly without any system 
messages. > At least, that's how I think of it. Destroystack applies to 
referenced > stacks just as it does to stacked opened other ways -- 
when a script > closes them, they are removed from memory if that 
property is set to > true. Otherwise, a script must issue a "delete 
stack" command to get rid > of it.?
 >?
  >> Like Jacque, I've been caught out with stacks in memory when I'd 
long >> forgotten about. However, one practical problem for the engine 
to >> overcome would be to determine when it should purge the stack. >> 
Typically, when I reference an external stack, I'm likely to make a >> 
few references to it within a handler. Having to reload the stack for 
 >> each reference could introduce an overhead. (Perhaps referenced >> 
stacks should be purged when any currently running handlers finish.)?
 >>?
  >> Meanwhile, I try to remember to specifically delete each externally 
>> referenced stack.?
  > > > After some thought, I think the current implementation is 
correct. > Destroystack doesn't (and shouldn't) control whether or not 
a stack > closes, it just manages the stack's behavior when it does 
close.?
?
  Of course but the stack is never truly open, so it's not about closing 
at all but about purging, something we don't have a token for.?
?
  > In my situation, I sometimes need to refer to a stack repeatedly 
across > handlers, and other times only need it once. I don't think I 
want the > engine deciding for me when the stack should close, I'd 
rather control > that myself. As long as I know that referencing a 
stack loads it into > memory, closing it later at my convenience isn't 
a problem.?
?
  I'm on the fence on this one, esp. given that "delete stack" sometimes 
purges a stack and at other times actually deletes a stack.?
?
  If we had a "purge stack" command I'd happily go along with leaving 
control in the hands of the developer.?
?
  Maybe we could add "purge stack" at the same time as we rename the 
unnecessarily alarming "destroyStack" property to something more 
closely related to what it does. :)?
?
 --?
 ?Richard Gaskin?
 ?Managing Editor, revJournal?
 ?_______________________________________________________?
 ?Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com?
 _______________________________________________?
 use-revolution mailing list?
 use-revolution at lists.runrev.com?
  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:?
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution?

    


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Oct  6 00:34:21 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 21:34:21 -0700
Subject: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <8C798451A29F52E-3E4-28C2@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com> <4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>
	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
	<4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com>	<4344273B.5030208@hyperactivesw.com>
	<434431D1.7020601@fourthworld.com>
	<75C1580B-9C31-423F-AF86-EF7B59C235B3@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<43449383.6030505@hyperactivesw.com>	<434497A5.6060904@fourthworld.com>
	<8C798451A29F52E-3E4-28C2@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <p0621020abf6a58d049f2@[66.93.39.98]>

At 12:25 AM -0400 10/6/2005, simplsol at aol.com wrote:
>Richard, Jacque, et. al.,
>By "destroyStack" don't we always mean "purge stack"?

The delete stack command, when used on a main stack, purges the stack 
from memory. However, when used on a substack, it deletes that 
substack from the stack file. The next time the stack file is saved, 
bye-bye substack.

It is... (deep breath)... perhaps not the most well-thought-out 
feature of the language. There is a bugzilla request 
<http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1081> to split 
the two functions of the delete stack command.

(This is separate from the destroyStack property, which does always 
indicate whether the stack should be purged. Ironic that the more 
alarming name is attached to the less dangerous feature...)
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct  6 00:54:10 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 21:54:10 -0700
Subject: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <p0621020abf6a58d049f2@[66.93.39.98]>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com>
	<4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>	<4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com>	<4344273B.5030208@hyperactivesw.com>	<434431D1.7020601@fourthworld.com>	<75C1580B-9C31-423F-AF86-EF7B59C235B3@lacscentre.co.uk>	<43449383.6030505@hyperactivesw.com>	<434497A5.6060904@fourthworld.com>	<8C798451A29F52E-3E4-28C2@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
	<p0621020abf6a58d049f2@[66.93.39.98]>
Message-ID: <4344ADF2.6010607@fourthworld.com>

Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
> At 12:25 AM -0400 10/6/2005, simplsol at aol.com wrote:
>> By "destroyStack" don't we always mean "purge stack"?
> 
> The delete stack command, when used on a main stack, purges the stack 
> from memory. However, when used on a substack, it deletes that substack 
> from the stack file. The next time the stack file is saved, bye-bye 
> substack.
> 
> It is... (deep breath)... perhaps not the most well-thought-out feature 
> of the language. There is a bugzilla request 
> <http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1081> to split 
> the two functions of the delete stack command.

Good job -- got my vote.  Thanks.

> (This is separate from the destroyStack property, which does always 
> indicate whether the stack should be purged. Ironic that the more 
> alarming name is attached to the less dangerous feature...)

Maybe we should change the syntax "go next card" to "erase hard drive" 
for consistency in irrelevant ominousness ;)

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 01:33:15 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 15:33:15 +1000
Subject: Machine network names
In-Reply-To: <43449FEA.4030907@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <4341B811.30906@hyperactivesw.com>
	<F92891CA-DAD8-40E1-A7B6-80285D3B44D7@byu.edu>
	<43449FEA.4030907@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510052233v5adf83a9s79aa8fc2e12deb2a@mail.gmail.com>

> > What I eventually decided to use for the unique machine ID -- instead of
> its network name -- was the host machine's MAC address. This handler
> gets that info, regardless of whether the program is running locally or
> remotely:
>

I don't expect it matters but you can have more than one MAC address
per machine. I have one for Ethernet and a different one for Airport.
The Ethernet one appears first in the preferences.plist, but is that
just because I am connected via enternet at the moment? Could the
order change if the connection method changes?

Just something for you to consider :-)
Sarah


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct  6 01:40:45 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 00:40:45 -0500
Subject: Function to easily read values from a plist file
Message-ID: <BF6A230D.2D173%kray@sonsothunder.com>

After Jacque discovered the data in the "preferences.plist" file she needed,
I decided to write a general-purpose function that would get values from a
plist file... it's a bit long, but it takes into account a number of
different scenarios for retrieving data.

Enjoy! And let me know if I need to add/change anything...

Ken
----------
stsReadFromPlist <pathTopListFile>,<keyPath>

This function lets you read from an OS X pList file (unencoded - Tiger has
some pLists encoded) using a slash-delimited "path" of keys in the file. If
the value of the data is a simple <string>, <integer>, etc., the value is
returned. If the value is an array (shown by "<array>" directly under the
key in the plist), an array is returned.

Example 1:
     put "/Library/Preferences/SystemConfiguration/com.apple.nat.plist" \
        into pList
     put stsReadFromPlist(pList,"NAT/Airport/NetworkName")
          --> "PowerMacG4"
     put stsReadFromPlist(pList,"NAT/SharingDevices") into tDevicesA
          --> tDevicesA[1] = "en1"

Example 2:
     put "/Library/Preferences/loginwindow.plist" \
        into pList
     put stsReadFromPlist(pList,"AutoLaunchedApplicationDirectory/Hide")
          --> "false"


function stsReadFromPlist pFile,pKeyPath
  if there is a file pFile then
    put url ("file:" & pFile) into tData
    set the itemDel to "/"
    repeat for each item tItem in pKeyPath
      put offset("<key>" & tItem & "</key>",tData) into tOffset
      if tOffset <> 0 then
        delete char 1 to (tOffset+length("<key>"&tItem&"</key>")) of tData
      else
        return "STSError: Key not found at path '" & pKeyPath & "'"
      end if
    end repeat
    -- remove preceding chars
    repeat
      if char 1 of tData = "<" then exit repeat
      delete char 1 of tData
    end repeat
    if char 1 to 7 of tData ="<array>" then
      -- return an array
      if matchText(tData,"(?si)<array>(.*?)<\/array>",tElements) then
        put "" into tRetValA
        put 0 into tKeyNum
        repeat
          add 1 to tKeyNum
          get matchText(tElements,"(?si)<.*?>(.*?)<\/.*?>",tVal)
          if it is false then exit repeat
          else
            put tVal into tRetValA[tKeyNum]
            get matchChunk(tElements,"(?si)(<.*?>(.*?)<\/.*?>)",tStart,tEnd)
            delete char 1 to tEnd of tElements
          end if
        end repeat
        return tRetValA
      else
        return "STSError: Could not extract array from key path '" & \
           pKeyPath & "'"
      end if
    else
      -- look for <Val/> (like <false/> - this is used in loginwindow.plist)
      if matchText(tData,"(?si)<(.*?)\/>",tVal) then
        return tVal
      else
        -- look for <string>Val</string>, <integer>Val</integer>, etc.
        if matchText(tData,"(?si)<.*?>(.*?)<\/.*?>",tVal) then
          return tVal
        end if
      end if
      return "STSError: Could not extract value from key path '" & \
         pKeyPath & "'"
    end if
  else
    return "STSError: File not found."
  end if
end stsReadFromPlist



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct  6 01:48:38 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 00:48:38 -0500
Subject: Function to easily read values from a plist file
In-Reply-To: <BF6A230D.2D173%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <BF6A24E6.2D17A%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/6/05 12:40 AM, "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

> stsReadFromPlist <pathTopListFile>,<keyPath>

By the way, for those of you with Scripter's Scrapbook 5, this has been
posted to SSBK Online so you can just browse and click a button to copy it
into your scrapbook - eliminates the need to copy/paste/etc....

:-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 02:16:44 2005
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:16:44 +0800
Subject: Speed optimisation
In-Reply-To: <4343D1A5.8050907@tweedly.net>
References: <395769895.20051005075840@liv.ac.uk>
	<f99b52860510050313t7f94d8c3w2e405d0bf7e55670@mail.gmail.com>
	<4343D1A5.8050907@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <f73a98160510052316g7bcc5c4aib04a0b555fc1e52c@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/5/05, Alex Tweedly <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:

Amazing how much it helps to be slow in replying, you get to use the
> best ideas from all previous entries :-)
>
> It's one less statement than Sarah's (though more characters) so it
> competes for shortest.
>
> On my machine (for 150,000),
> Dick's method took 3.76 seconds
> Alex's method took 2.43 seconds
>
>
> function addDivandFormat pTime,pSeconds
> set the itemDelimiter to ":"
> put item 1 of pTime * 3600 + item 2 of pTime * 60 + item 3 of pTime +
> pSeconds into tSeconds
> return format("%02d:%02d:%04.1f", tSeconds div 3600, tSeconds mod 3600
> div 60, tSeconds mod 60)
> end addDivandFormat



I certainly have to agee with Alex's statement about sitting back and
watching. So here is my effort:

I've got the same amount of lines as Sarah's but more words; but less word's
than Alex's, assuming you set the twelveHourTime in an openStack handler.

-------
set the twelveHourTime to false --possibly set in openStack handler

function addTime pTime,pSeconds
--set the twelveHourTime to false (if not set elsewhere in stack)
set the itemDelimiter to "."
convert item 1 of pTime to seconds
convert (item 1 of pTime + pSeconds) to long time
return it & "." & item 2 of pTime
end addTime

for 150000 calculations on my machine (run 3 consecutive times)

IF the original time has no decimal ie 10:30:28
Dick 5.78, 5.83, 5.86
Alex 5.38, 5.73, 5.45
me 5.48, 5.46, 5.55

With decimal times ie 11:23:34.6
Dick 6.05, 6.21, 6.13
Alex 5.55, 5.65, 5.68
me 5.4, 5.46, 5.58

Dick's and Alex's seem to prefer no decimal, but mine doesn't seem fussed
either way.

So do I win the Cupie doll? ;-)


From jhj at jhj.com  Thu Oct  6 02:29:29 2005
From: jhj at jhj.com (Jerry J)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 23:29:29 -0700
Subject: Stack Switching Question again
In-Reply-To: <20051005170003.5BFCC824FCD@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051005170003.5BFCC824FCD@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a97e01c09c3abab0be2598a053734abc@jhj.com>

> From: Robert Brenstein <rjb at robelko.com>
> Subject: Re: Stack Switching Question again

> You can even execute scripts remotely using either send or call

Wow !!!

That puts a whole new spin on "start using", doesn't it!
--
Jerry Jensen



From dick.kriesel at mail.com  Thu Oct  6 03:01:02 2005
From: dick.kriesel at mail.com (Dick Kriesel)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 00:01:02 -0700
Subject: Speed optimisation
In-Reply-To: <f73a98160510052316g7bcc5c4aib04a0b555fc1e52c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BF6A19BE.1330E%dick.kriesel@mail.com>

On 10/5/05 11:16 PM, "Kay C Lan" <lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com> wrote:

> set the twelveHourTime to false --possibly set in openStack handler
> 
> function addTime pTime,pSeconds
> --set the twelveHourTime to false (if not set elsewhere in stack)
> set the itemDelimiter to "."
> convert item 1 of pTime to seconds
> convert (item 1 of pTime + pSeconds) to long time
> return it & "." & item 2 of pTime
> end addTime
> 
<snip> 
> So do I win the Cupie doll? ;-)


Not yet, Kay; that would be too easy.  Although the "spec" didn't mention
that the seconds might be negative, it didn't rule it out, either.  The
above function would return an incorrect value if there were a negative.
And handling negatives correctly might increase the times and counts.

Hey, Rob, since you wrote the "spec," do negatives matter?

I hadn't heard there was a Cupie doll available.  Whether there is or not,
maybe Rob will award the winner a virtual QP doll (for Quintessential
Performance ;)) ).

-- Dick




From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Thu Oct  6 03:30:05 2005
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (graham samuel)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:30:05 +0200
Subject: Determine active OS langguage
Message-ID: <FA2D9F2C-05FD-4645-9DBF-9C2CAC1EAD79@wanadoo.fr>

Hi Trevor

I just tried your test (directly from your Rev user area) on my  
French XP machine and it still returned 'en'. I then had a look at it  
and found that the line

  replaceText(shell("defaults...

resulted in a long text in French being put into tUserLangs. This  
reads (including the single quote):

'defaults'n'estpasreconnuentantquecommandeinterneouexterne,unprogrammeex 
?cutableouunfichierdecommandes.

I don't know what happened to the spaces in this message, but as you  
can see it doesn't like the word 'defaults'.

More significantly the 'queryregistry' call doesn't happen in your  
script because it would only be called if the platform **wasn't**  
Win32, which it is! I altered the logic a bit so that the registery  
is queried  for the Win32 case, and bingo! I got 'fr'. So the key  
idea works. Don't know what the replaceText problem is.

HTH

Graham


On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:07:36 -0700, Trevor DeVore  
<lists at mangomultimedia.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for a taking a look at this Graham.  Let me walk through the
> logic of the function to see where it might be going wrong.
>
> Right now the function queries the "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel
> \International\Locale" which returns the hex value you noted above.
> This hex value is a combination of a primary and sublanguage
> identifier which you can find information about here:
>
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/intl/
> nls_238z.asp
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/intl/
> nls_61df.asp
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/intl/
> nls_19ir.asp
>
> What my code is supposed to do is extract the primary language
> identifier from the registry value which I can compare against the
> documented values that Microsoft provides.
>
> So for French (Standard) we start with the hex value 0x040c (what
> your system has).  In order to extract the primary language
> identifier from the language identifer (0x040c) we need to do a
> bitAND operation.  Somewhere deep in the microsoft site it tells you
> that that value to use for this operation is 0x3FF (or 1023) in
> decimal form but I can't find the reference right now.  Revolution
> requires the decimal form when using bitAND so we end up with this:
>
> get queryRegistry("HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\International
> \Locale") --> RETURNS HEX
> get baseConvert(it,16,10) --> CONVERT HEX TO DECIMAL (1036 FOR FRENCH
> STANDARD)
> get it bitAND 1023
>
> Using the value you gave for your system (0x040c) the value of it in
> the above transcript ends up being 12 which is what I would expect it
> to be for French.  I wonder if maybe there was a problem when you
> copied and pasted the script.  I uploaded a stack to my user space on
> RevOnline.  Look for getUserLang under "trevordevore".  There is just
> one button to click and it will display the language your os is
> running (for english, french, german, spanish and italian).  Could
> you let me know if that works on your system?  The version of the
> function is slightly updated in the stack so if it does work there
> could have been a problem in my original function.
>

----------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France



From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 03:55:32 2005
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 15:55:32 +0800
Subject: IDE Strangeness
In-Reply-To: <p06230901bf65ca0a3109@192.168.1.103>
References: <BF65603A.37896%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
	<p06230901bf65ca0a3109@192.168.1.103>
Message-ID: <f73a98160510060055n360192f0g1ecb436a87977d49@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/3/05, Stephen Barncard <stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com> wrote:
>
> REV 2.6 - latest build OSX 10.3.9 Powerbook 17" 133
>
> I'm having a strange problem with the IDE. I'm working with MySQL and
> Trevor's DB library (both of which work fine) - but I'm getting
> unpredictable behavior in the IDE after hours of working out database
> subroutines and debugging (with the usual errors until one gets it
> right), and it seems to get worse with time, like a memory leak or
> something.



OK, no one's bothered to answer so I'll have a wild guess. One of the things
that you may be experiencing is if during your debugging you are constantly
sending requests for data to MySQL , ie opening a cursor, but the 'problem
area' of your code may be before you close the cursor. As such you could be
getting to the situation where you have many many cursors open. Next time it
happens use 'revDatabaseCursors' in the msg box to see how many are open -
if there are 165 then its not so much as a memory leak as a memory hijack;-)

You can use revCloseCursor to solve the problem.

In the Help Docs, Dictionary, Filter with: cursor should quickly get you to
the two for a better explanation.

The symptoms are mainly that, after time, and randomly, important IDE
> components such as the Inspector, the the Message Box, the
> Application Browser and the ERROR window will not be brought back to
> the front after an earlier dismissal.


Are yes, this is one manifestation of Rev's undocumented full featured SNARS
implementation. I've got to say Revs come a long way. It was abysmal in Rev
2.2 and only marginally useful in 2.5 but in 2.6 it is only on the odd
occasion that it does't kick in when it's suppose to.

HTH
Save Now And ReStart - or you'll regret it;-)


From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Thu Oct  6 04:08:14 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 01:08:14 -0700
Subject: Create a Card in an other Stack
Message-ID: <BF6A297E.37ED4%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Hello,

I have ui Stack and a data stack.

I want to create a new Card in my Data stack from the UI Stack, so I can
store a new record on a new Card in the Data Stack.

I can't figure out how to make it work. I tried using send to trigger a
handler in the data stack but that doesn't seem to work.

What am i not understanding about this?

Thanks

Todd

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From simplsol at aol.com  Thu Oct  6 04:23:10 2005
From: simplsol at aol.com (simplsol at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 04:23:10 -0400
Subject: destroyStack, was: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <4344ADF2.6010607@fourthworld.com>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com>	<4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>	<4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com>	<4344273B.5030208@hyperactivesw.com>	<434431D1.7020601@fourthworld.com>	<75C1580B-9C31-423F-AF86-EF7B59C235B3@lacscentre.co.uk>	<43449383.6030505@hyperactivesw.com>	<434497A5.6060904@fourthworld.com>	<8C798451A29F52E-3E4-28C2@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>	<p0621020abf6a58d049f2@[66.93.39.98]>
	<4344ADF2.6010607@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <8C7986652AA83EC-17A4-5E8E@mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com>

Jeanne,
 It got 5 of my votes as well.
 But I think there is more confusion here.
 A
  I believe Open Stack and Close Stack should be symmetrical. In other 
words, Close Stack should reverse the results of Open Stack. Open Stack 
1. loads the stack into memory, 2. makes the stack visible on the 
screen, and 3. locks other users out of the stack. Close Stack should 
(in opposite order) 1. release the stack to the next user, 2. remove 
the stack image from the screen, and 3. purge the stack from memory. 
Close Stack should always purge, there should be no "destroyStack" or 
"purgeOnClose" option. This would be logical, elegant, consistent, 
predictable, simpler, and visible (you would not end up with hidden 
stacks in memory that you didn't know were there).
 B
  In addition to a Purge, or Purge Main Stack command, I'd like to see a 
Load Stack command - symmetrical with purge. "Load" is short, describes 
the operation, and is already used by Transcript for URLs. Load Stack 
would place a copy of a stack in memory (without opening it), Purge 
Main Stack would remove it.
 C
  I believe stacks should only be put into memory by opening or loading 
- not by referencing. This would be logical, elegant, consistent, 
predictable, simpler, and visible. There is not (and should not be) a 
Dereference command! By being forced to load stacks before working on 
them we will always be reminded to purge them and we will not have 
stacks in memory which we put there unaware.
 Let's bury "destroyStack" permanently.
 Paul Looney

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
 To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
 Sent: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 21:54:10 -0700
 Subject: Re: Stack Switching Question

 Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:?
 > At 12:25 AM -0400 10/6/2005, simplsol at aol.com wrote:?
 >> By "destroyStack" don't we always mean "purge stack"??
  > > The delete stack command, when used on a main stack, purges the 
stack > from memory. However, when used on a substack, it deletes that 
substack > from the stack file. The next time the stack file is saved, 
bye-bye > substack.?
  > > It is... (deep breath)... perhaps not the most well-thought-out 
feature > of the language. There is a bugzilla request > 
<http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1081> to split > 
the two functions of the delete stack command.?
 ?
 Good job -- got my vote. Thanks.?
 ?
  > (This is separate from the destroyStack property, which does always 
 > indicate whether the stack should be purged. Ironic that the more > 
alarming name is attached to the less dangerous feature...)?
 ?
  Maybe we should change the syntax "go next card" to "erase hard drive" 
for consistency in irrelevant ominousness ;)?
 ?
 --?
 ?Richard Gaskin?
 ?Managing Editor, revJournal?
 ?_______________________________________________________?
 ?Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com?
 _______________________________________________?
 use-revolution mailing list?
 use-revolution at lists.runrev.com?
  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:?
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution?

  


From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 05:20:22 2005
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 17:20:22 +0800
Subject: change the size of the box in a checkbox
In-Reply-To: <20051004144839.th0k11klog4kgcg0@webmail.armbase.com>
References: <20051004104245.f4cexvyvkck4swgk@webmail.armbase.com>
	<f73a98160510040443o6111537em10faf14efc6126de@mail.gmail.com>
	<20051004144839.th0k11klog4kgcg0@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <f73a98160510060220p16fdeaaaq6c2defe502e99d9f@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/4/05, rev at armbase.com <rev at armbase.com> wrote:
>
> Quoting Kay C Lan <lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com>:
>
> Hi Kay.
>
> This is a fantastic description. I was not aware of the image library
> method nor
> the Icon section. Only been using rev for fun for about 2 years but
> starting to
> do something serious now (well 10 hours a week).
>
> I can definitely go a long way with thins in so many ways.
>

OK, so now that you've had time to master that (which is another way of
saying I had to sleep, eat and work) I'll give you a tip, a trap and offer
one thought as to where you may go with this.

Tip
If you go to the the Image Library and hold the mouse over the image for a
second a 'toolTip' will pop up with the image ID number. This number can be
used to set an image from within a script.

Trap.
I'm sure your aware that if you open the Object Inspector and hold the mouse
over an editable field or checkbox for a second, a toolTip will pop-up with
the name of that property. This is great because it provides a very fast way
to find out the name of a property you wish to set, unfortunately there are
a few properties that are not named correctly so if you try to use them you
get errors, and icons are one of them.

If you go to the check box you created, and in the Object Inspector select
Icons & Borders and hold the mouse over the 5 top fields you'll get: Icon,
Hilite Icon, icon, icon & icon. Only the first one is correct!

If you go to Help, Docs, Dictionary, Filter with: 'icon' you'll discover
that what you really need is icon, hiliteIcon or hilitedIcon (same thing)
and disabledIcon.

So what can you do with this. I saw in another post you wanted to know about
having a preference stack and changing scripts depending on selections. Dan
answered that question but I'll offer a different way to do it. Remember
that 'script' is just another property so if you know how to set an object's
icon, you then know how to set it's script - or any other property for that
matter.

Let's say on your preference stack you have a option button (which is really
a menu!!) that sets the size of your check boxes. Lets call the button 'Set
Size' and it has three choices, Standard, Medium and Large.

Because an option/combo button is really a menu you have access to the
'menuPick' handler and the 'menuHistory' property. (Check them out in the
Dictionary for a full explanation). The menuPick handler does all the hard
work for you and you can use the menuHistory to determine what the last
selection was or to even change the selection in one simple statement - set
the menuHistory of button "Set Size" to 2

So having created the three images necessary for your 'Medium' check box,
and another 3 for your 'Large' check box, and imported them into your image
library and noted their ID numbers you can put this script into button 'Set
Size':

on menuPick tMyChoice --your choice is sent to here
switch tMyChoice --switch will look for a match
case ("Standard")
--remember setting them to zero will return to normal size
set the icon of button "CheckBox1" to 0
set the hilitedIcon of button "CheckBox1" to 0
set the disabledIcon of button "CheckBox1" to 0
set the rectangle of button "CheckBox1" to 25,25,65,47
break
case ("Medium")
-- you'll need to use your own IDs from your Image Library
set the icon of button "CheckBox1" to 1164
set the hilitedIcon of button "CheckBox1" to 1167
set the disabledIcon of button "CheckBox1" to 1189
set the rectangle of button "CheckBox1" to 15,15,75,52
break
case ("Large")
-- you'll need to use your own IDs from your Image Library
set the icon of button "CheckBox1" to 1203
set the hilitedIcon of button "CheckBox1" to 1213
set the disabledIcon of button "CheckBox1" to 1222
set the rectangle of button "CheckBox1" to 5,5,85,57
break
end switch
end menuPick

I've snuck in a 'the rectangle' property because obviously if you change the
size of the image, the whole button size will need to be changed to
accommodate it. You'll need to figure this out by setting up the button in
each configuration and using the Property Inspector to determine the numbers
that you need to set.

Obviously I did this for one check box, you could easily do if for many
either by adding more and more statements (for a couple) or using a repeat
statement (for lots).

So that should help you go 'a long way' and beyond;-)

HTH


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Thu Oct  6 05:40:39 2005
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:40:39 +0200
Subject: PHP and Rev cgi
Message-ID: <4344F117.FFB741B8@Club-Internet.fr>

Hi list,

I'm trying to launch a Rev cgi script from a PHP script.

I'm using the following line :

    exec("/home/httpd/html/cgi-bin/........./myScript.cgi 0 $caddie");

and it works.

But the problem is that I need to pass 2 parameters to the Rev cgi
script, and can't figure how to read these parameters in the Rev
cgi script...

I've tried :        on startup x, y
but that doesn't work...

Any clue ?

Thanks in advance,
JB



From mark at maseurope.net  Thu Oct  6 06:41:23 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 11:41:23 +0100
Subject: Create a Card in an other Stack
In-Reply-To: <BF6A297E.37ED4%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
References: <BF6A297E.37ED4%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <6FF4D845-1900-41B2-A683-DB8090957872@maseurope.net>

Can you give us an example of the code that doesn't work?


Mark

On 6 Oct 2005, at 09:08, Todd Geist wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have ui Stack and a data stack.
>
> I want to create a new Card in my Data stack from the UI Stack, so  
> I can
> store a new record on a new Card in the Data Stack.
>
> I can't figure out how to make it work. I tried using send to  
> trigger a
> handler in the data stack but that doesn't seem to work.
>
> What am i not understanding about this?
>
> Thanks
>
> Todd
>
> -- 
>
> Todd Geist
> ______________________________________
> g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Oct  6 07:07:55 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 12:07:55 +0100
Subject: Speed optimisation
In-Reply-To: <f73a98160510052316g7bcc5c4aib04a0b555fc1e52c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <395769895.20051005075840@liv.ac.uk>	<f99b52860510050313t7f94d8c3w2e405d0bf7e55670@mail.gmail.com>	<4343D1A5.8050907@tweedly.net>
	<f73a98160510052316g7bcc5c4aib04a0b555fc1e52c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4345058B.90005@tweedly.net>

Kay C Lan wrote:

> I certainly have to agee with Alex's statement about sitting back and
>
>watching. So here is my effort:
>
>  
>
>_______________________________________________
>
> So do I win the Cupie doll? ;-)

No, I don't think so, because your method gets wrong (IMHO) results in 
two cases :-).

1.  10:30:28 + 50 results in
Alex   10:31:18.0
Kay    10:31:18.
(i.e. trailing full stop (period) rather than a "0" after it)

2. 23:59:59.3 + 50 results in
Alex 24:00:49.4
Kay  00:00:49.4
and the original problem statement said  "hh can be greater than 24!" 
which I take to mean that it should be in cases like this, to avoid 
problems of knowing whether or not the values have wrapped. Using the 
built in time functions will always wrap, so that may require the 
surrounding code to change.

>I've got the same amount of lines as Sarah's but more words; but less word's
>than Alex's, assuming you set the twelveHourTime in an openStack handler.
>
>for 150000 calculations on my machine (run 3 consecutive times)
>
>IF the original time has no decimal ie 10:30:28
>Dick 5.78, 5.83, 5.86
>Alex 5.38, 5.73, 5.45
>me 5.48, 5.46, 5.55
>
>With decimal times ie 11:23:34.6
>Dick 6.05, 6.21, 6.13
>Alex 5.55, 5.65, 5.68
>me 5.4, 5.46, 5.58
>
>Dick's and Alex's seem to prefer no decimal, but mine doesn't seem fussed
>either way.
>
>  
>
Interesting. You didn't say what your machine was, but I get quite 
different results (Sony laptop, Pentium 4, WinXP), with my method 
consistently being faster then yours (note I set the twlevehourtime 
*outside* the timing loop).

(You didn't say what number of seconds you were adding, so I couldn't 
reproduce the comparison exactly. Note it does make a difference to some 
methods whether or not you need to carry the increment - though probably 
not to either of these two methods)

12:11:12.2 + 50
----------------
Alex   2.636 2.687 2.682
Kay    3.158 2.828 2.801

10:31:18 + 50
-------------
Alex  2.332 2.307 2.227
Kay   2.888 2.879 2.888

11:23:34.6 + 50
---------------
Alex 2.415 2.438 2.471
Kay  2.707 2.704 2.731

I think all this proves is:
1. we're down to the point where differences are tiny
2. hardware and OS may give different results
3. it's easy to get obsessive about speed beyond the point where it matters - I do it all the time !!


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.10/119 - Release Date: 04/10/2005



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Oct  6 07:11:44 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 12:11:44 +0100
Subject: HELP!! - Geometry Gone Berserk, How to fix?
In-Reply-To: <BF6A24E6.2D17A%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF6A24E6.2D17A%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <a05210601bf6ab5ba8d1c@[192.168.0.100]>

Hi,

HELP! I have a Stack and the geometry has gone berserk. I have a 
"breakpoint" inserted in a preOpenStack handler that allows me to 
quit the startup path. If I let it continue the Stack displays and 
the geometry has scaled/moved objects as if the Stack window were 
MUCH bigger. If I Abort in the debugger, the stack displays ok.

However, if I type:

revUpdateGeometry (which would have been called on the preOpenStackk 
path anyway)

The geometry goes beswick!

How it fix? Is there anyway of resetting the geometry of the Stack?

HELP!

Thanks a lot
Dave


From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Oct  6 07:21:32 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 12:21:32 +0100
Subject: Speed optimisation
In-Reply-To: <BF6A19BE.1330E%dick.kriesel@mail.com>
References: <BF6A19BE.1330E%dick.kriesel@mail.com>
Message-ID: <434508BC.2070202@tweedly.net>

Dick Kriesel wrote:

>
>Not yet, Kay; that would be too easy.  Although the "spec" didn't mention
>that the seconds might be negative, it didn't rule it out, either.  The
>above function would return an incorrect value if there were a negative.
>And handling negatives correctly might increase the times and counts.
>
>  
>
Hmmm - can you give a case where Kay's method gives wrong answers 
because of a negative seconds value ?
As far as I can see (both by inspection and by testing) it always gets 
it right.

On the other hand, both your method and mine (which is really just a 
variant of yours) get it wrong in key cases of negative seconds (e.g. 
00:00:00.1   - 31 gives   0:00:0-31 for you and 0:00:0-31.0 for me - 
both rather hopeless :-)

>Hey, Rob, since you wrote the "spec," do negatives matter?
>  
>
Yeah, yeah, it's the spec that's at fault, not the programmer :-) :-)


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.10/119 - Release Date: 04/10/2005



From anderson at aerovironment.com  Wed Oct  5 11:51:59 2005
From: anderson at aerovironment.com (David Anderson)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 08:51:59 -0700
Subject: Oracle DB connection
Message-ID: <17b0ad64f4d6f0652987ce5d3a48b93b@aerovironment.com>

Hello All

I have just purchased the Enterprise license so I can connect to an 
oracle database.  Reading in the documentation, it says:

Oracle:
Oracle database drivers are not included as part of the Revolution 
installation on any platform.

To obtain an Oracle database driver for your platform, visit the Oracle 
web site at <http://www.oracle.com>.


Finding the drivers on the oracle site is confusing to say the least.  
I have oracle database 10g and am using Mac OS X.
I could find JDBC driver downloads which has the 10g drivers, but then 
it also has a Mac OS X subsection with 9i thin JDBC and 8i OCI drivers.

What should I use and how do I install them?

Thanks,
Dave Anderson



From anderson at aerovironment.com  Wed Oct  5 13:15:39 2005
From: anderson at aerovironment.com (David Anderson)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:15:39 -0700
Subject: Oracle DB Connection
Message-ID: <74f537e08e37fadf718c7f16d7626386@aerovironment.com>

Hello All

I have just purchased the Enterprise license so I can connect to an 
oracle database.  Reading in the documentation, it says:

Oracle:
Oracle database drivers are not included as part of the Revolution 
installation on any platform.

To obtain an Oracle database driver for your platform, visit the Oracle 
web site at <http://www.oracle.com>.


Finding the drivers on the oracle site is confusing to say the least.  
I have oracle database 10g and am using Mac OS X.
I could find JDBC driver downloads which has the 10g drivers, but then 
it also has a Mac OS X subsection with 9i thin JDBC and 8i OCI drivers.

What should I use and how do I install them?

Thanks,
Dave Anderson



From andreasstaempfli at mkz.ch  Wed Oct  5 15:26:18 2005
From: andreasstaempfli at mkz.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andreas_St=E4mpfli?=)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 21:26:18 +0200
Subject: stack on server very very  slow: solution for workaround
In-Reply-To: <E31A9455-B280-45DE-800E-CFE043105CFA@medone.ch>
References: <95410FB3-612F-4FF5-82B2-4F7B7D809D82@medone.ch>
	<a06230905bf6999c98afe@[10.1.196.4]>
	<E31A9455-B280-45DE-800E-CFE043105CFA@medone.ch>
Message-ID: <A151A892-62CD-47E6-9D3C-813219AC2572@mkz.ch>

Hello Phil

strange workaround to gain back speed on server stored stacks:  :-)

There are two ways to gain access to a remote stack:

I) The easy  way:   (NOT WORKING)
set the stackFiles of this stack to "deutsch1.rev," & ServerVerzeichnis
   put "deutsch1.rev" into PlugIn
   open stack PlugIn

-> This way the stack on the remote machine can be simply accessed by  
calling: stack PlugIn

II) The ugly way: (WORKING FAST)
using the "Open Stack..." menue in the Revolution dev environment.


Why? I think this is a bug. I would expect the same result for both  
possibilitys ( I. and II.).


(I am not sure if this could cure your problem also).

Kind regards

Andreas St?mpfli




Am 05.10.2005 um 20:06 schrieb andreas:

> Hello Phil
>
> thanks for your hint. In this case, the save command works speedy.  
> Only stackoperations
> take very long. There is a lot of text-processing going on, on many  
> fields on many cards.
> What surprises me, is exactly this: Why should this take longer  
> than with the local stack?
> Both, local, as remote, stack should be processed in memory. As the  
> RunRev manual states.
>
> -> But: if a stack is sucked in clients memory on opening - then  
> there should not be a speed
> issue for me. So there is some sort of communication to the remote  
> stack. I can see it
> on my network gauge!
>
> Client and server are both running OS X 10.4.2, so its using AFS,  
> Apple File Sharing.
>
> Yes, it seems, that there is some sort of failure, hope we can  
> track this down.
> (Tested my AFS connection with other applications. Those have no  
> speed issue).
>
> Kind regards
>
> Andreas St?mpfli
>
> Am 05.10.2005 um 16:58 schrieb Phil Jimmieson:
>
>
>>> In several posts one can read, that a stack, when networked, can  
>>> be slow, due to the "save"
>>> statement.
>>>
>>> I have a solution on a client computer and the stack is (now) on  
>>> a server.
>>> Setup is OS X 10.4
>>>
>>> After porting this stack to the server machine, it behaves very  
>>> slow (more than 1000! times
>>> slower, than when this stack was on the client. There is no save  
>>> command used.
>>>
>>> I assume that the whole stack is read in memory? There are less  
>>> than 1000 cards in it
>>> (but they are procecessed a lot).
>>>
>>> Thanks for your hints! I should port this Tutorial-Game as server  
>>> solution soon.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Hi Andreas,
>> there is a bugzilla report for slow saving, but its marked as  
>> Resolved, because Tuviah could not verify the bug, although it  
>> still exists for me (and now possibly you too).
>>
>> http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=81
>>
>> In our setup, the server is a Unix system using Samba (not a true  
>> Windows server). What sort of server are you using?
>>
>> -- 
>> Phil Jimmieson  phil at csc.liv.ac.uk  (UK) 0151 794 3689  (Mobile)  
>> 07976 983164
>> Computer Science Dept., Liverpool University, Chadwick Building,  
>> Peach Street
>> Liverpool L69 7ZF              http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~phil/
>>   I used to sit on a special medical board... ...but now I use  
>> this ointment.
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From todd at geistinteractive.com  Thu Oct  6 04:07:21 2005
From: todd at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 01:07:21 -0700
Subject: Create a Card in an other Stack
Message-ID: <BF6A2949.37ECD%todd@geistinteractive.com>

Hello,

I have ui Stack and a data stack.

I want to create a new Card in my Data stack from the UI Stack, so I can
store a new record on a new Card in the Data Stack.

I can't figure out how to make it work. I tried using send to trigger a
handler in the data stack but that doesn't seem to work.

What am i not understanding about this?

Thanks

Todd

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Thu Oct  6 08:18:33 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 13:18:33 +0100
Subject: PHP and Rev cgi
In-Reply-To: <4344F117.FFB741B8@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <4344F117.FFB741B8@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <88B6270C-9DB8-474D-A08F-56B19F9DA1BB@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 6 Oct 2005, at 10:40, jbv wrote:

> Hi list,
>
> I'm trying to launch a Rev cgi script from a PHP script.
>
> I'm using the following line :
>
>     exec("/home/httpd/html/cgi-bin/........./myScript.cgi 0 $caddie");
>
> and it works.
>
> But the problem is that I need to pass 2 parameters to the Rev cgi
> script, and can't figure how to read these parameters in the Rev
> cgi script...
>
> I've tried :        on startup x, y
> but that doesn't work...
>
> Any clue ?

Try looking at the $0, $1, $2, etc.  environment variables. I think  
$1 and $2 may be what you want.

e,g

on startup
  put $1 into tParam1
  put $2 into tParam2

There has been some discussion in the past about how these parameters  
are interpreted, (an issue with quotes if my memory serves) but I  
think the problems may have been limited to Windows.

Cheers
Dave


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Thu Oct  6 08:40:30 2005
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:40:30 +0200
Subject: PHP and Rev cgi
References: <4344F117.FFB741B8@Club-Internet.fr>
	<88B6270C-9DB8-474D-A08F-56B19F9DA1BB@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <43451B3B.61FBB6C6@Club-Internet.fr>



Dave,

it works with $1 and $2.
$0 actually returns the path of the cgi script.

Thanks too much !

JB

> On 6 Oct 2005, at 10:40, jbv wrote:
>
> > Hi list,
> >
> > I'm trying to launch a Rev cgi script from a PHP script.
> >
> > I'm using the following line :
> >
> >     exec("/home/httpd/html/cgi-bin/........./myScript.cgi 0 $caddie");
> >
> > and it works.
> >
> > But the problem is that I need to pass 2 parameters to the Rev cgi
> > script, and can't figure how to read these parameters in the Rev
> > cgi script...
> >
> > I've tried :        on startup x, y
> > but that doesn't work...
> >
> > Any clue ?
>
> Try looking at the $0, $1, $2, etc.  environment variables. I think
> $1 and $2 may be what you want.
>
> e,g
>
> on startup
>   put $1 into tParam1
>   put $2 into tParam2
>
> There has been some discussion in the past about how these parameters
> are interpreted, (an issue with quotes if my memory serves) but I
> think the problems may have been limited to Windows.
>
> Cheers
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mark at maseurope.net  Thu Oct  6 08:58:00 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 13:58:00 +0100
Subject: Create a Card in an other Stack
In-Reply-To: <BF6A2949.37ECD%todd@geistinteractive.com>
References: <BF6A2949.37ECD%todd@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <0463F635-0203-4EA8-A080-381FA9412446@maseurope.net>

Perhaps you need to set the data stack as the defaultStack before  
sending the command?

put the defaultStack into oldDefStack -- save the current  
defaultStack setting
set the defaultStack to dataStack
send "create card" to stack dataStack
--do whatever else needs doing
set the defaultStack to oldDefStack -- restore the defaultStack setting

Does this help?

Mark


On 6 Oct 2005, at 09:07, Todd Geist wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have ui Stack and a data stack.
>
> I want to create a new Card in my Data stack from the UI Stack, so  
> I can
> store a new record on a new Card in the Data Stack.
>
> I can't figure out how to make it work. I tried using send to  
> trigger a
> handler in the data stack but that doesn't seem to work.
>
> What am i not understanding about this?
>
> Thanks
>
> Todd
>
> -- 
>
> Todd Geist
> ______________________________________
> g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From paulclaude at postino.it  Thu Oct  6 09:48:53 2005
From: paulclaude at postino.it (Paul Claude)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 15:48:53 +0200
Subject: Shared menus
Message-ID: <BF6AF7E5.2CF1%paulclaude@postino.it>

Is there anybody who knows if Revolution may create shared menus (the menus
that appears on the right side of the menubar and are available from any
application)?




From revlist at cableone.net  Thu Oct  6 10:03:24 2005
From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 08:03:24 -0600
Subject: Unix scripting help
In-Reply-To: <f99b5286050929134122678ec1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C92536A9-16AB-40C8-9762-521F5BFD9BF5@cableone.net>
	<f99b5286050929134122678ec1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <431F09AB-91BF-4A72-AE76-A69956452C79@cableone.net>

I think I finally got this figured out.  Turns out, Sarah, your idea  
did work, but I had to redirect output to a file, just like you're  
doing.  And that made it so my script stopped hanging.  What's  
strange, though, is that when I look at the contents of the file that  
gets created it's empty, so I'm still not really sure what the  
problem was.  But at least it's working now, and having a little  
empty file get created is a small price to pay for not rebooting the  
user's machine.

Thanks for the help.

Chris

On Sep 29, 2005, at 2:41 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> Here is an example of a script I use that really does run in the  
> background.
>
>  put "ping -c1 -n "  & pIP into tShellCmd
>  put " > " & tFileName & " 2>&1 &" after tShellCmd
>  get shell(tShellCmd)
>
> I tried using the ampersand and it didn't work but this does. It
> writes it's output to a file which you may not need, but the crucial
> bit is the " 2>&1 &" which allows my Rev script to continue without
> waiting for the shell command to finish.
>
> You can feed your lines into the variable "tShellCommand" although you
> may not need the "exit" at all.
>
> I hope this helps as I detest installers that require me to do a
> reboot. I  feel it is nearly always due to lack of understanding or
> programmer laziness rather than because the system really needs to
> restart.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

------------------------------------------
Chris Sheffield
Read Naturally
The Fluency Company
http://www.readnaturally.com
------------------------------------------




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct  6 10:08:51 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 07:08:51 -0700
Subject: Shared menus
In-Reply-To: <BF6AF7E5.2CF1%paulclaude@postino.it>
References: <BF6AF7E5.2CF1%paulclaude@postino.it>
Message-ID: <43452FF3.9090909@fourthworld.com>

Paul Claude wrote:
> Is there anybody who knows if Revolution may create shared menus (the menus
> that appears on the right side of the menubar and are available from any
> application)?

The Apple HIG reserves those for OS use:

   Menu Bar Extras

   Reserved for use by Apple, the right side of the menu bar may
   contain items that provide feedback on and access to certain
   hardware or network settings. Menu bar extras display some type
   of status in the menu bar and have a menu to change settings.
   The icon for the battery strength indicator, for example,
   dynamically displays the current state of the battery for a
   portable computer, and the menu has common battery settings.
   Users can display or hide a menu bar extra in the appropriate
   preferences pane.

<http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGMenus/chapter_16_section_4.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000356-CHDFJEAC>

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 10:09:12 2005
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 22:09:12 +0800
Subject: Speed optimisation
In-Reply-To: <434508BC.2070202@tweedly.net>
References: <BF6A19BE.1330E%dick.kriesel@mail.com>
	<434508BC.2070202@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <f73a98160510060709q4590353as23aa14c6c5640de4@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/6/05, Alex Tweedly <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:

> No, I don't think so, because your method gets wrong (IMHO) results in
> two cases :-).
>

Well spotted.

Yes I guess depending on what your going to do with it afterward it may
matter. I tend not to bother with trailling or leading zeros as Rev does a
good job, put 20. + 20.5 + .25 will give you the correct answer. It's only
if you have to display it does it matter, and in this case maybe the result
is for final display.

And I was so looking forward to the QP Doll;-)


From rjb at robelko.com  Thu Oct  6 09:45:27 2005
From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 15:45:27 +0200
Subject: destroyStack, was: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <8C7986652AA83EC-17A4-5E8E@mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com> <4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>
	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
	<4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com>	<4344273B.5030208@hyperactivesw.com>
	<434431D1.7020601@fourthworld.com>
	<75C1580B-9C31-423F-AF86-EF7B59C235B3@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<43449383.6030505@hyperactivesw.com>	<434497A5.6060904@fourthworld.com>
	<8C798451A29F52E-3E4-28C2@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
	<p0621020abf6a58d049f2@[66.93.39.98]>	<4344ADF2.6010607@fourthworld.com>
	<8C7986652AA83EC-17A4-5E8E@mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <a06110408bf6ada01c23f@[141.89.100.174]>

>Jeanne,
>It got 5 of my votes as well.
>But I think there is more confusion here.
>A
>  I believe Open Stack and Close Stack should be symmetrical. In 
>other words, Close Stack should reverse the results of Open Stack. 
>Open Stack 1. loads the stack into memory, 2. makes the stack 
>visible on the screen, and 3. locks other users out of the stack. 
>Close Stack should (in opposite order) 1. release the stack to the 
>next user, 2. remove the stack image from the screen, and 3. purge 
>the stack from memory. Close Stack should always purge, there should 
>be no "destroyStack" or "purgeOnClose" option. This would be 
>logical, elegant, consistent, predictable, simpler, and visible (you 
>would not end up with hidden stacks in memory that you didn't know 
>were there).
>B
>  In addition to a Purge, or Purge Main Stack command, I'd like to 
>see a Load Stack command - symmetrical with purge. "Load" is short, 
>describes the operation, and is already used by Transcript for URLs. 
>Load Stack would place a copy of a stack in memory (without opening 
>it), Purge Main Stack would remove it.
>C
>  I believe stacks should only be put into memory by opening or 
>loading - not by referencing. This would be logical, elegant, 
>consistent, predictable, simpler, and visible. There is not (and 
>should not be) a Dereference command! By being forced to load stacks 
>before working on them we will always be reminded to purge them and 
>we will not have stacks in memory which we put there unaware.
>Let's bury "destroyStack" permanently.
>Paul Looney

Sounds good to me, Paul, but you need to accommodate closing stack 
window as opposed to closing stack. We have now:

close with destroyStack off = close stack window
close with destroyStack on = close stack window, remove stack from memory

We still need to be able to do the former. Hide stack comes to mind 
as a solution, of course, but making a stack as invisible is now 
subtly different than closing it without removal from memory.

Robert Brenstein


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct  6 10:17:58 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 07:17:58 -0700
Subject: destroyStack, was: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <a06110408bf6ada01c23f@[141.89.100.174]>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com>
	<4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>	<4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com>	<4344273B.5030208@hyperactivesw.com>	<434431D1.7020601@fourthworld.com>	<75C1580B-9C31-423F-AF86-EF7B59C235B3@lacscentre.co.uk>	<43449383.6030505@hyperactivesw.com>	<434497A5.6060904@fourthworld.com>	<8C798451A29F52E-3E4-28C2@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>	<p0621020abf6a58d049f2@[66.93.39.98]>	<4344ADF2.6010607@fourthworld.com>	<8C7986652AA83EC-17A4-5E8E@mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com>
	<a06110408bf6ada01c23f@[141.89.100.174]>
Message-ID: <43453216.9070204@fourthworld.com>

Robert Brenstein wrote:
>> Jeanne,
>> It got 5 of my votes as well.
>> But I think there is more confusion here.
>> A
>>  I believe Open Stack and Close Stack should be symmetrical. In other 
>> words, Close Stack should reverse the results of Open Stack. Open 
>> Stack 1. loads the stack into memory, 2. makes the stack visible on 
>> the screen, and 3. locks other users out of the stack. Close Stack 
>> should (in opposite order) 1. release the stack to the next user, 2. 
>> remove the stack image from the screen, and 3. purge the stack from 
>> memory. Close Stack should always purge, there should be no 
>> "destroyStack" or "purgeOnClose" option. This would be logical, 
>> elegant, consistent, predictable, simpler, and visible (you would not 
>> end up with hidden stacks in memory that you didn't know were there).
>> B
>>  In addition to a Purge, or Purge Main Stack command, I'd like to see 
>> a Load Stack command - symmetrical with purge. "Load" is short, 
>> describes the operation, and is already used by Transcript for URLs. 
>> Load Stack would place a copy of a stack in memory (without opening 
>> it), Purge Main Stack would remove it.
>> C
>>  I believe stacks should only be put into memory by opening or loading 
>> - not by referencing. This would be logical, elegant, consistent, 
>> predictable, simpler, and visible. There is not (and should not be) a 
>> Dereference command! By being forced to load stacks before working on 
>> them we will always be reminded to purge them and we will not have 
>> stacks in memory which we put there unaware.
>> Let's bury "destroyStack" permanently.
>> Paul Looney
> 
> 
> Sounds good to me, Paul, but you need to accommodate closing stack 
> window as opposed to closing stack. We have now:
> 
> close with destroyStack off = close stack window
> close with destroyStack on = close stack window, remove stack from memory
> 
> We still need to be able to do the former. Hide stack comes to mind as a 
> solution, of course, but making a stack as invisible is now subtly 
> different than closing it without removal from memory.

If I understand Paul's suggestion correctly, I believe that's covered 
under his request for a "load" command.

His thinking is not unlike something we all go through learning Rev:  in 
any other app closing a window ultimately purges the data presented in 
it from memory.

As much as I like (and often rely on) the current stay-resident behavior 
I wouldn't mind if it were optional, with the default being the more 
intuitive purge.

Of course backward compatibility is a whole other issue, so at best we 
might hope for some global flag to allow the old behavior to be 
sustained for legacy stacks without requiring an explicit "load".

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From revlist at cableone.net  Thu Oct  6 10:24:15 2005
From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 08:24:15 -0600
Subject: Early Update Pack
In-Reply-To: <p0621022bbf6a2ea06dcf@[192.168.0.140]>
References: <4341B811.30906@hyperactivesw.com>
	<5B65FC5F-38DA-4DAE-9CF1-F6241C77E103@mac.com>
	<p0621022bbf6a2ea06dcf@[192.168.0.140]>
Message-ID: <24D60FA0-1CF9-41AA-980D-1AF80EB18D0F@cableone.net>

Jesse,

Not sure if you've gotten a response to this or not, so I'll chime  
in.  And someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

The early update pack is nothing more than an early subscription  
renewal of your Rev license.  You could call it the "early bird  
special".  Because you're purchasing it *before* your subscription  
ends, you get an extra discount off the regular price.  It doesn't  
have anything to do with getting early access to bug fixes and new  
features.  That comes with the purchase of the enterprise license.

If you need more info, I'm sure someone at RunRev can answer your  
questions if you e-mail them.

Chris

On Oct 5, 2005, at 7:32 PM, Jesse Sng wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm curious about what's the advantage of the Early Update Pack for  
> Rev Studio. As a developer who's delivering a project, is it  
> advantageous to sign up for it?
>
> I guess what I'm trying to figure out is whether the Early Update  
> allows me to tap in early into bug fixes or is this more to tap  
> into early releases of new features? When bringing a new system  
> online, I would rather take more bug fixes and less new features so  
> I'm not sure if this is for me or not.
>
> Perhaps someone who's on the programme might want to comment on  
> this. Thanks.
>
>
> Jesse Sng
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

------------------------------------------
Chris Sheffield
Read Naturally
The Fluency Company
http://www.readnaturally.com
------------------------------------------




From paulclaude at postino.it  Thu Oct  6 11:15:23 2005
From: paulclaude at postino.it (Paul Claude)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 17:15:23 +0200
Subject: Shared menus
Message-ID: <BF6B0C2B.2CF7%paulclaude@postino.it>

Thanks Richard, but you surely know that many non-apple appications override
this rules, directly or through the Shared Menus Enhancer or the haxies by
Unsanity; I have in my menu bar iKey, Metereologist, MenuCalendarClock,
ABDialer, MainMenu, and there are many othe similar apps.

There is a way to use this also through Revolution?




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct  6 11:24:48 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 08:24:48 -0700
Subject: Shared menus
In-Reply-To: <BF6B0C2B.2CF7%paulclaude@postino.it>
References: <BF6B0C2B.2CF7%paulclaude@postino.it>
Message-ID: <434541C0.6080405@fourthworld.com>

Paul Claude wrote:
> Thanks Richard, but you surely know that many non-apple appications override
> this rules, directly or through the Shared Menus Enhancer or the haxies by
> Unsanity; I have in my menu bar iKey, Metereologist, MenuCalendarClock,
> ABDialer, MainMenu, and there are many othe similar apps.

I feel bad for their ROI: the API is considered "for Apple use and 
subject to change", which often translates to "your stuff will break 
with our next release."

While I agree that it would be useful for Apple to open that up to 
developers, as it is there's an argument for honoring their request to 
support a more consistent user experience.

> There is a way to use this also through Revolution?

Not that I know of.

What do you need to do?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct  6 11:48:46 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:48:46 -0500
Subject: Machine network names
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860510052233v5adf83a9s79aa8fc2e12deb2a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4341B811.30906@hyperactivesw.com>	
	<F92891CA-DAD8-40E1-A7B6-80285D3B44D7@byu.edu>	
	<43449FEA.4030907@hyperactivesw.com>
	<f99b52860510052233v5adf83a9s79aa8fc2e12deb2a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4345475E.4080504@hyperactivesw.com>

Sarah Reichelt wrote:
 >>>What I eventually decided to use for the unique machine ID -- instead of
 >>
 >>its network name -- was the host machine's MAC address. This handler
 >>gets that info, regardless of whether the program is running locally or
 >>remotely:
 >>
 >
 >
 > I don't expect it matters but you can have more than one MAC address
 > per machine. I have one for Ethernet and a different one for Airport.
 > The Ethernet one appears first in the preferences.plist, but is that
 > just because I am connected via enternet at the moment? Could the
 > order change if the connection method changes?
 >
 > Just something for you to consider :-)

Thanks. I guess I'll get the "Ethernet" key first before parsing out the 
MAC address from it. Good point.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From rjb at robelko.com  Thu Oct  6 11:39:22 2005
From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 17:39:22 +0200
Subject: destroyStack, was: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <43453216.9070204@fourthworld.com>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com> <4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>
	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
	<4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com>	<4344273B.5030208@hyperactivesw.com>
	<434431D1.7020601@fourthworld.com>
	<75C1580B-9C31-423F-AF86-EF7B59C235B3@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<43449383.6030505@hyperactivesw.com>	<434497A5.6060904@fourthworld.com>
	<8C798451A29F52E-3E4-28C2@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
	<p0621020abf6a58d049f2@[66.93.39.98]>	<4344ADF2.6010607@fourthworld.com>
	<8C7986652AA83EC-17A4-5E8E@mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com>
	<a06110408bf6ada01c23f@[141.89.100.174]>
	<43453216.9070204@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a0611040fbf6af2cd9bc2@[141.89.100.174]>

>>
>>Sounds good to me, Paul, but you need to accommodate closing stack 
>>window as opposed to closing stack. We have now:
>>
>>close with destroyStack off = close stack window
>>close with destroyStack on = close stack window, remove stack from memory
>>
>>We still need to be able to do the former. Hide stack comes to mind 
>>as a solution, of course, but making a stack as invisible is now 
>>subtly different than closing it without removal from memory.
>
>If I understand Paul's suggestion correctly, I believe that's 
>covered under his request for a "load" command.
>
>His thinking is not unlike something we all go through learning Rev: 
>in any other app closing a window ultimately purges the data 
>presented in it from memory.

I am not sure that it is covered. Unless you mean than when I open a 
stack, then I have to close it, then load to have it in memory again? 
That would be too much ado. I am referring to a case when I open (not 
load) a stack and then close it but want to keep it in memory since I 
plan to reuse it (possibly re-show to user).

I think that ambiguity arises, at least partially, from having stack 
and window being more or less synonyms, although they are not really 
quite the same.

>As much as I like (and often rely on) the current stay-resident 
>behavior I wouldn't mind if it were optional, with the default being 
>the more intuitive purge.
>
>Of course backward compatibility is a whole other issue, so at best 
>we might hope for some global flag to allow the old behavior to be 
>sustained for legacy stacks without requiring an explicit "load".
>
>--
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Managing Editor, revJournal

I am not sure we face and need true change in behavior. I think that 
if the load/purge business is cleared and the destroystack is 
renamed, the open/close stuff can continue to work as it has so far, 
possibly having the destroy set on as default for new stacks. This 
would then affect only people with existing stacks relying on the 
automatic load upon reference and that can be taken care of with a 
simple error message.

Robert


From paulclaude at postino.it  Thu Oct  6 11:53:49 2005
From: paulclaude at postino.it (Paul Claude)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 17:53:49 +0200
Subject: Shared menus
Message-ID: <BF6B152D.2CFA%paulclaude@postino.it>

I need, as for ABDialer or Jon's Phone Tool, to make a menu available from
any app with the possibility to make a phone call, choosing an address, etc.




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct  6 12:01:43 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:01:43 -0500
Subject: Function to easily read values from a plist file
In-Reply-To: <BF6A230D.2D173%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF6A230D.2D173%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <43454A67.30302@hyperactivesw.com>

Ken Ray wrote:
> After Jacque discovered the data in the "preferences.plist" file she needed,
> I decided to write a general-purpose function that would get values from a
> plist file... it's a bit long, but it takes into account a number of
> different scenarios for retrieving data.

Very cool Ken, thanks. I will integrate this into my app for sure.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Oct  6 12:17:55 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:17:55 -0700
Subject: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <p0621020abf6a58d049f2@[66\.93\.39\.98]>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com> <4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>
	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
	<4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com> <4344273B.5030208@hyperactivesw.com>
	<434431D1.7020601@fourthworld.com>
	<75C1580B-9C31-423F-AF86-EF7B59C235B3@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<43449383.6030505@hyperactivesw.com> <434497A5.6060904@fourthworld.com>
	<8C798451A29F52E-3E4-28C2@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
	<p0621020abf6a58d049f2@[66.93.39.98]>
Message-ID: <11886457969.20051006091755@ahsoftware.net>

Jeanne-

Wednesday, October 5, 2005, 9:34:21 PM, you wrote:

> It is... (deep breath)... perhaps not the most well-thought-out
> feature of the language. There is a bugzilla request 
> <http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1081> to split
> the two functions of the delete stack command.

Got my vote, too. See also the destroyStack writeup at
<http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1072>

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From simplsol at aol.com  Thu Oct  6 12:25:54 2005
From: simplsol at aol.com (simplsol at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 12:25:54 -0400
Subject: destroyStack, was: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <43453216.9070204@fourthworld.com>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com>	<4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>	<4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com>	<4344273B.5030208@hyperactivesw.com>	<434431D1.7020601@fourthworld.com>	<75C1580B-9C31-423F-AF86-EF7B59C235B3@lacscentre.co.uk>	<43449383.6030505@hyperactivesw.com>	<434497A5.6060904@fourthworld.com>	<8C798451A29F52E-3E4-28C2@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>	<p0621020abf6a58d049f2@[66.93.39.98]>	<4344ADF2.6010607@fourthworld.com>	<8C7986652AA83EC-17A4-5E8E@mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com>	<a06110408bf6ada01c23f@[141.89.100.174]>
	<43453216.9070204@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <8C798A9C2756DD7-1D30-10C1B@mblk-d43.sysops.aol.com>

Richard,
  I was also concerned about the legacy apps. My first thought was to 
allow "load by reference" for some period of time (for example all 
shipments of Rev. delivered after January 2007 would require the new 
behavior). But it may be that only a very small group of current Rev 
programmers are even aware of this feature. I'd like to hear from them 
before finalizing any recommendations.
  I also believe the "load stack" command would address Robert's 
concerns.
 Can we kill "destroyStack" in my lifetime?
 Paul Looney

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
 To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
 Sent: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 07:17:58 -0700
 Subject: Re: destroyStack, was: Stack Switching Question

 Robert Brenstein wrote:?
 >> Jeanne,?
 >> It got 5 of my votes as well.?
 >> But I think there is more confusion here.?
 >> A?
  >> I believe Open Stack and Close Stack should be symmetrical. In 
other >> words, Close Stack should reverse the results of Open Stack. 
Open >> Stack 1. loads the stack into memory, 2. makes the stack 
visible on >> the screen, and 3. locks other users out of the stack. 
Close Stack >> should (in opposite order) 1. release the stack to the 
next user, 2. >> remove the stack image from the screen, and 3. purge 
the stack from >> memory. Close Stack should always purge, there should 
be no >> "destroyStack" or "purgeOnClose" option. This would be 
logical, >> elegant, consistent, predictable, simpler, and visible (you 
would not >> end up with hidden stacks in memory that you didn't know 
were there).?
 >> B?
  >> In addition to a Purge, or Purge Main Stack command, I'd like to 
see >> a Load Stack command - symmetrical with purge. "Load" is short, 
 >> describes the operation, and is already used by Transcript for URLs. 
 >> Load Stack would place a copy of a stack in memory (without opening 
>> it), Purge Main Stack would remove it.?
 >> C?
  >> I believe stacks should only be put into memory by opening or 
loading >> - not by referencing. This would be logical, elegant, 
consistent, >> predictable, simpler, and visible. There is not (and 
should not be) a >> Dereference command! By being forced to load stacks 
before working on >> them we will always be reminded to purge them and 
we will not have >> stacks in memory which we put there unaware.?
 >> Let's bury "destroyStack" permanently.?
 >> Paul Looney?
  > > > Sounds good to me, Paul, but you need to accommodate closing 
stack > window as opposed to closing stack. We have now:?
 > > close with destroyStack off = close stack window?
  > close with destroyStack on = close stack window, remove stack from 
memory?
  > > We still need to be able to do the former. Hide stack comes to 
mind as a > solution, of course, but making a stack as invisible is now 
subtly > different than closing it without removal from memory.?
 ?
  If I understand Paul's suggestion correctly, I believe that's covered 
under his request for a "load" command.?
 ?
  His thinking is not unlike something we all go through learning Rev: 
in any other app closing a window ultimately purges the data presented 
in it from memory.?
 ?
  As much as I like (and often rely on) the current stay-resident 
behavior I wouldn't mind if it were optional, with the default being 
the more intuitive purge.?
 ?
  Of course backward compatibility is a whole other issue, so at best we 
might hope for some global flag to allow the old behavior to be 
sustained for legacy stacks without requiring an explicit "load".?
 ?
 --?
 ?Richard Gaskin?
 ?Managing Editor, revJournal?
 ?_______________________________________________________?
 ?Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com?
 _______________________________________________?
 use-revolution mailing list?
 use-revolution at lists.runrev.com?
  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:?
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution?

  


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Oct  6 12:26:44 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:26:44 -0700
Subject: Determine active OS langguage
In-Reply-To: <FA2D9F2C-05FD-4645-9DBF-9C2CAC1EAD79@wanadoo.fr>
References: <FA2D9F2C-05FD-4645-9DBF-9C2CAC1EAD79@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <922D0BAD-CD57-4240-9DC3-6B48D5FE0B37@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 6, 2005, at 12:30 AM, graham samuel wrote:

> More significantly the 'queryregistry' call doesn't happen in your  
> script because it would only be called if the platform **wasn't**  
> Win32, which it is! I altered the logic a bit so that the registery  
> is queried  for the Win32 case, and bingo! I got 'fr'. So the key  
> idea works. Don't know what the replaceText problem is.

Doh, I was testing something right before uploading the stack and  
forgot to switch the script back so it was testing the platforms  
correctly.  Sorry about that.  I'm glad to hear it did work once you  
switched it yet.  I had entered the incorrect codes for German and  
Italian in the script I posted so I've updated the stack in my user  
space (trevordevore).  Here is the latest function for anyone who  
cares.  I added a couple of extra languages to it as well.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


/**
* Returns the two letter language code that a program can use to load  
a language file.
*
* @return 2 letter lang
*/
function getUserLang
     local tAppLangs = "en,fr,de,es,it,pt,zh,zh,ja,ko"
     -->  
English,French,German,Spanish,Italian,Portuguese,Chinese,Chinese,Japanes 
e,Korean
     --> CHINESE APPEARS TWICE FOR SIMPLIFIED AND TRADITIONAL (MAC OS X)
     --> zh-Hans = simplified chinese
     --> zh-Hant = traditinoal chinese
     local tUserLangs,tLangs
     local i

     set wholeMatches to true

     if platform() is "MacOS" then
         put "en,fr,de,es,it,pt,zh-Hans,zh-Hant,ja,ko" into tLangs
         get "(\s|\(|\)|"&quote&")"
         put replaceText(shell("defaults read NSGlobalDomain  
AppleLanguages"),it,"") into tUserLangs

     else if platform() is "Win32" then
         put "9,12,7,10,16,22,4,4,17,18" into tLangs
         put queryRegistry("HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel 
\International\Locale") into tUserLangs
         put baseConvert(tUserLangs,16,10) bitAND 1023 into tUserLangs

     --> LINUX
     else

     end if

     repeat for each item tLang in tUserLangs
         put itemOffset(tLang, tLangs) into i
         if i > 0 then exit repeat
     end repeat

     if i > 0 then return item i of tAppLangs
     else return "en"
end getUserLang





From simplsol at aol.com  Thu Oct  6 12:31:17 2005
From: simplsol at aol.com (simplsol at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 12:31:17 -0400
Subject: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <11886457969.20051006091755@ahsoftware.net>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com>
	<4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>	<4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com>
	<4344273B.5030208@hyperactivesw.com>	<434431D1.7020601@fourthworld.com>	<75C1580B-9C31-423F-AF86-EF7B59C235B3@lacscentre.co.uk>	<43449383.6030505@hyperactivesw.com>
	<434497A5.6060904@fourthworld.com>	<8C798451A29F52E-3E4-28C2@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>	<p0621020abf6a58d049f2@[66.93.39.98]>
	<11886457969.20051006091755@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <8C798AA82F388CF-1D30-10CE9@mblk-d43.sysops.aol.com>

Mark,
I gave it five votes as well - with the understanding that there would 
be one comprehensive solution that would address both bugs. It would be 
welcome news to learn that "destroyStack" had disappeared with the next 
version of Rev.
Paul Looney

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net>
To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:17:55 -0700
Subject: Re: Stack Switching Question

   Jeanne-

Wednesday, October 5, 2005, 9:34:21 PM, you wrote:

> It is... (deep breath)... perhaps not the most well-thought-out
> feature of the language. There is a bugzilla request
> <http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1081> to split
> the two functions of the delete stack command.

Got my vote, too. See also the destroyStack writeup at
<http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1072>

--
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

    


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Oct  6 12:41:39 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:41:39 -0500
Subject: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <8C798AA82F388CF-1D30-10CE9@mblk-d43.sysops.aol.com>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com>	<4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>	<4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com>	<4344273B.5030208@hyperactivesw.com>	<434431D1.7020601@fourthworld.com>	<75C1580B-9C31-423F-AF86-EF7B59C235B3@lacscentre.co.uk>	<43449383.6030505@hyperactivesw.com>	<434497A5.6060904@fourthworld.com>	<8C798451A29F52E-3E4-28C2@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>	<p0621020abf6a58d049f2@[66.93.39.98]>	<11886457969.20051006091755@ahsoftware.net>
	<8C798AA82F388CF-1D30-10CE9@mblk-d43.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <434553C3.3020104@chipp.com>

I, for one, hope it doesn't dissapear, as I use 'delete stack' quite 
often. It's the only sure-fire way to make sure a stack is closed, and 
I'd have to rewrite many, many stacks if it went away.

It's unfortunately named, and could certainly use a better synonym. But 
it does 'delete a stack from memory' as it says. Once you get the hang 
of it, and know to never use it on subStacks, it's not too bad.

simplsol at aol.com wrote:
> Mark,
> I gave it five votes as well - with the understanding that there would 
> be one comprehensive solution that would address both bugs. It would be 
> welcome news to learn that "destroyStack" had disappeared with the next 
> version of Rev.
> Paul Looney



From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Oct  6 12:46:30 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:46:30 -0500
Subject: Shared menus
In-Reply-To: <434541C0.6080405@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF6B0C2B.2CF7%paulclaude@postino.it>
	<434541C0.6080405@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <434554E6.8040002@chipp.com>

Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I feel bad for their ROI: the API is considered "for Apple use and 
> subject to change", which often translates to "your stuff will break 
> with our next release."

Heck, if they were ONLY THAT NICE at Apple! They routinely break stuff 
with their next release with no warning at all-- hence the multiple 
changes to altBrowser. In fact, most of the time, it's their stuff which 
is broken.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct  6 12:52:27 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:52:27 -0700
Subject: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <434553C3.3020104@chipp.com>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com>	<4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>	<4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com>	<4344273B.5030208@hyperactivesw.com>	<434431D1.7020601@fourthworld.com>	<75C1580B-9C31-423F-AF86-EF7B59C235B3@lacscentre.co.uk>	<43449383.6030505@hyperactivesw.com>	<434497A5.6060904@fourthworld.com>	<8C798451A29F52E-3E4-28C2@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>	<p0621020abf6a58d049f2@[66.93.39.98]>	<11886457969.20051006091755@ahsoftware.net>	<8C798AA82F388CF-1D30-10CE9@mblk-d43.sysops.aol.com>
	<434553C3.3020104@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <4345564B.9070809@fourthworld.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:
 > simplsol at aol.com wrote:
 >> I gave it five votes as well - with the understanding that
 >> there would be one comprehensive solution that would address
 >> both bugs. It would be welcome news to learn that "destroyStack"
 >> had disappeared with the next version of Rev.
 >
 > I, for one, hope it doesn't dissapear, as I use 'delete stack' quite
 > often. It's the only sure-fire way to make sure a stack is closed, and
 > I'd have to rewrite many, many stacks if it went away.
 >
 > It's unfortunately named, and could certainly use a better synonym.

That's all the request asks for, to depricate "destroyStack" in favor of 
a more accurately descriptive term:
<http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1072>

I think we all enjoy having control over whether a stack remains in 
memory or not.  Unfortunately "delete stack" doesn't do that 
consistently, and in some cases can actually delete a stack.

That's a separate issue, addressed here:
<http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1081>

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct  6 12:54:17 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:54:17 -0700
Subject: Shared menus
In-Reply-To: <BF6B152D.2CFA%paulclaude@postino.it>
References: <BF6B152D.2CFA%paulclaude@postino.it>
Message-ID: <434556B9.3020806@fourthworld.com>

Paul Claude wrote:
> I need, as for ABDialer or Jon's Phone Tool, to make a menu available from
> any app with the possibility to make a phone call, choosing an address, etc.

Apple's recommended solution is to use Dock menus.  I agree it's less 
useful, but I'm just passing on what they recommend (please don't shoot 
the messenger <g>).

Any of you have an external for that?
Is there a Bugzilla request to provide that?
Can it be done with some combination of AppleScript/plist stuff?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct  6 12:57:47 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:57:47 -0500
Subject: destroyStack, was: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <8C7986652AA83EC-17A4-5E8E@mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <BF6AC1BB.2D25D%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/6/05 3:23 AM, "simplsol at aol.com" <simplsol at aol.com> wrote:

> Jeanne,
>  It got 5 of my votes as well.
>  But I think there is more confusion here.

Paul, I think the open/close and load/purge ideas are great, with a few
minor changes (plus I've included other terms in use to get an overview of
the situation):

load stack <stackDescriptor>
    Loads stack into memory, does not display it, does not get listed in the
'openstacks'. [Resulting status: loaded]

unload stack <stackDescriptor>
    Removes stack from memory (Note: does not work on 'open' stacks.)
[Resulting status: closed]

open stack <stackDescriptor>
    Loads stack into memory, makes it visible, locks stack from other users,
adds entry to 'openStacks'. [Resulting status: open]

open inv[isible] stack <stackDescriptor>
    Loads stack into memory, keeps it hidden, locks stack from other users,
adds entry to 'openStacks'.  [Resulting status: open]

close stack <stackDescriptor>
    Releases lock on stack, removes the stack image from the screen, unloads
the stack from memory, removes the entry from the 'openStacks'.  [Resulting
status: closed]

close stack <stackDescriptor> and remain resident
    Releases lock on stack, removes the stack image from the screen, removes
the entry from the 'openStacks', but keeps the stack in memory. [Resulting
status: loaded]

hide stack <stackDescriptor>
    Hides the stack image from the screen. (Note: does not work on closed
stacks.)  [Resulting status: open]

show stack <stackDescriptor>
    Shows the stack image. (Note: does not work on closed stacks.)
[Resulting status: open]


That's my 2 cents...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct  6 13:02:15 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:02:15 -0700
Subject: destroyStack, was: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <a0611040fbf6af2cd9bc2@[141.89.100.174]>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com>
	<4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>	<4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com>	<4344273B.5030208@hyperactivesw.com>	<434431D1.7020601@fourthworld.com>	<75C1580B-9C31-423F-AF86-EF7B59C235B3@lacscentre.co.uk>	<43449383.6030505@hyperactivesw.com>	<434497A5.6060904@fourthworld.com>	<8C798451A29F52E-3E4-28C2@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>	<p0621020abf6a58d049f2@[66.93.39.98]>	<4344ADF2.6010607@fourthworld.com>	<8C7986652AA83EC-17A4-5E8E@mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com>	<a06110408bf6ada01c23f@[141.89.100.174]>	<43453216.9070204@fourthworld.com>
	<a0611040fbf6af2cd9bc2@[141.89.100.174]>
Message-ID: <43455897.2050100@fourthworld.com>

Robert Brenstein wrote:
>>>
>>> Sounds good to me, Paul, but you need to accommodate closing stack 
>>> window as opposed to closing stack. We have now:
>>>
>>> close with destroyStack off = close stack window
>>> close with destroyStack on = close stack window, remove stack from 
>>> memory
>>>
>>> We still need to be able to do the former. Hide stack comes to mind 
>>> as a solution, of course, but making a stack as invisible is now 
>>> subtly different than closing it without removal from memory.
>>
>> If I understand Paul's suggestion correctly, I believe that's covered 
>> under his request for a "load" command.
>>
>> His thinking is not unlike something we all go through learning Rev: 
>> in any other app closing a window ultimately purges the data presented 
>> in it from memory.
> 
> I am not sure that it is covered. Unless you mean than when I open a 
> stack, then I have to close it, then load to have it in memory again? 
> That would be too much ado. I am referring to a case when I open (not 
> load) a stack and then close it but want to keep it in memory since I 
> plan to reuse it (possibly re-show to user).
> 
> I think that ambiguity arises, at least partially, from having stack and 
> window being more or less synonyms, although they are not really quite 
> the same.

Quite, esp. given that we also have a destroyWindow property. :)

I think all Paul's suggesting is that two things happen:

1. Both stay-resident-on-close and purge-from-memory-on-close behaviors 
remain available as they are now, but the default would be 
purge-from-memory-on-close.

2. Introduce explicit commands for managing whether stacks are in memory 
or not, as opposed to the current situation which is wrought with 
inconsistencies (destroyStack only applies to stacks that are opened, 
but not those we merely read properties from without opening, and 
deleteStack sometimes purges stacks and at other times actually deletes 
the physical stack).

Whether the default behavior is changed, I think we all agree that some 
form of explicit control over what's in memory and what's not would be 
desirable.

And stepping back to look at the big picture, I doubt any of this will 
have much effect for quite some time anyway if at all, since there are 
many, many bigger fish to fry in the meantime.  So while it may be 
enjoyable conversation, I don't think we need to get too worried about 
any impending change on this anytime soon. :)

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct  6 13:10:01 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:10:01 -0700
Subject: Shared menus
In-Reply-To: <434554E6.8040002@chipp.com>
References: <BF6B0C2B.2CF7%paulclaude@postino.it>	<434541C0.6080405@fourthworld.com>
	<434554E6.8040002@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <43455A69.3010209@fourthworld.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:
> Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> I feel bad for their ROI: the API is considered "for Apple use and 
>> subject to change", which often translates to "your stuff will break 
>> with our next release."
> 
> 
> Heck, if they were ONLY THAT NICE at Apple! They routinely break stuff 
> with their next release with no warning at all-- hence the multiple 
> changes to altBrowser. In fact, most of the time, it's their stuff which 
> is broken.

Dude, don't get me started.

While I have apps written for Win95 that continue to run without 
difficulty in Microsoft's latest OS, on Mac we've had to port from 68k 
to PPC, and then from Classic to OS X, and even now stuff break between 
releases of OS X.

The latest of these affecting my work is:
<http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3098>

Mark Waddingham is on top of that, in touch with Apple engineers to see 
when they'll fix that bug apparently introduced in QT 7.0, or if they 
have a workaround for it.  In the meantime we're in the process of 
redesigning our app to work around Apple's bug.

And then there was "GURLGURL", and Apple's requirement that all 
developers write their own custom filter proc to provide NavServices 
glue which could have been done once in the OS, and the issues you've 
encountered with their web rendering, and....

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Oct  6 13:16:05 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 10:16:05 -0700
Subject: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <434553C3.3020104@chipp.com>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com> <4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>
	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
	<4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com> <4344273B.5030208@hyperactivesw.com>
	<434431D1.7020601@fourthworld.com>
	<75C1580B-9C31-423F-AF86-EF7B59C235B3@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<43449383.6030505@hyperactivesw.com> <434497A5.6060904@fourthworld.com>
	<8C798451A29F52E-3E4-28C2@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
	<p0621020abf6a58d049f2@[66.93.39.98]>
	<11886457969.20051006091755@ahsoftware.net>
	<8C798AA82F388CF-1D30-10CE9@mblk-d43.sysops.aol.com>
	<434553C3.3020104@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <17189948308.20051006101605@ahsoftware.net>

Chipp-

Thursday, October 6, 2005, 9:41:39 AM, you wrote:

> I, for one, hope it doesn't dissapear, as I use 'delete stack' quite
> often. It's the only sure-fire way to make sure a stack is closed, and
> I'd have to rewrite many, many stacks if it went away.

> It's unfortunately named, and could certainly use a better synonym. But
> it does 'delete a stack from memory' as it says. Once you get the hang
> of it, and know to never use it on subStacks, it's not too bad.

Well, it's the substack behavior here that is of primary concern. My
take of the BZ entry for this suggests two steps: the first would be
getting rid of the substack part of the "delete stack" command; and
the second would be the addition of a "purge stack" command to xTalk.
This is related to the BZ entry for the destroyStack property. If you
really need "delete stack" then I don't see a problem with deprecating
it for new stacks in favor of "purge stack" and having "purge stack"
alias to the existing behavior of "delete stack" (without the substack
badness, of course).

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From simplsol at aol.com  Thu Oct  6 13:38:34 2005
From: simplsol at aol.com (simplsol at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 13:38:34 -0400
Subject: destroyStack, was: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <BF6AC1BB.2D25D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <8C798B3E9406D46-10E0-2158@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com>

Ken,
  Yes, yes, yes. I especially like your subtle change of "purge" to 
"unload" - more logical and consistent.
How do you feel about requiring "load" rather than loading by reference?
 Paul Looney

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com>
 To: Use Revolution List <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
 Sent: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:57:47 -0500
 Subject: Re: destroyStack, was: Stack Switching Question

 On 10/6/05 3:23 AM, "simplsol at aol.com" <simplsol at aol.com> wrote:

 > Jeanne,
 > It got 5 of my votes as well.
 > But I think there is more confusion here.

 Paul, I think the open/close and load/purge ideas are great, with a few
  minor changes (plus I've included other terms in use to get an 
overview of
 the situation):

 load stack <stackDescriptor>
  Loads stack into memory, does not display it, does not get listed in 
the
 'openstacks'. [Resulting status: loaded]

 unload stack <stackDescriptor>
 Removes stack from memory (Note: does not work on 'open' stacks.)
 [Resulting status: closed]

 open stack <stackDescriptor>
  Loads stack into memory, makes it visible, locks stack from other 
users,
 adds entry to 'openStacks'. [Resulting status: open]

 open inv[isible] stack <stackDescriptor>
 Loads stack into memory, keeps it hidden, locks stack from other users,
 adds entry to 'openStacks'. [Resulting status: open]

 close stack <stackDescriptor>
  Releases lock on stack, removes the stack image from the screen, 
unloads
  the stack from memory, removes the entry from the 'openStacks'. 
[Resulting
 status: closed]

 close stack <stackDescriptor> and remain resident
  Releases lock on stack, removes the stack image from the screen, 
removes
  the entry from the 'openStacks', but keeps the stack in memory. 
[Resulting
 status: loaded]

 hide stack <stackDescriptor>
 Hides the stack image from the screen. (Note: does not work on closed
 stacks.) [Resulting status: open]

 show stack <stackDescriptor>
 Shows the stack image. (Note: does not work on closed stacks.)
 [Resulting status: open]


 That's my 2 cents...

 Ken Ray
 Sons of Thunder Software
 Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
 Email: kray at sonsothunder.com

 _______________________________________________
 use-revolution mailing list
 use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription
 preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

  


From fgiannet at hotmail.com  Thu Oct  6 15:24:30 2005
From: fgiannet at hotmail.com (Fred Giannetto)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 15:24:30 -0400
Subject: Using a card to make modifications to database
In-Reply-To: <20051005043219.68581.qmail@web60518.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY106-F19CF81D35F13B80F493D71D7850@phx.gbl>

And helped it did!!!

I threw some quotes around those variables and they are getting plugged into 
the database without a problem.

Thank you very much

All best Always
Fred


>From: Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Subject: RE: Using a card to make modifications to database
>Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 21:32:19 -0700 (PDT)
>
>--- Fred Giannetto <fgiannet at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Here is a copy of my script.  The point is for users
> > to enter data into the
> > card and the submit button have the data inserted
> > into the database.  The
> > sql works when submitted directly into the database.
> >
> > on mouseUp
> >   put field "Name" into tName
> >   put field "Team" into tTeam
> >   put field "Position" into tPosition
> >   put field "Rushing" into tRushing
> >   put field "Receiving" into tReceiving
> >   get revOpenDatabases("MYSQL", "localhost", "test",
> > root, root1)
> >   put it into tDatabaseID
> >   answer tName, tTeam, tPosition, tRushing,
> > tReceiving, tDatabaseID
> >   revExecuteSQL tDatabaseID,"insert into
> > test.nflstats(Name, Team, Position,
> > Rushing, Receiving) values(tName, tTeam, tPosition,
> > tRushing, tReceiving)"
> > end mouseUp
> >
> > I have the tDatabaseID variable to make sure I am
> > recording the Database ID
> >
> > Thank you for your assistance, There will be a lot
> > of progress once I get
> > past these elementary hurdles
> > All best Always
> > Fred
> >
>
>Hi Fred,
>
>The database functions will not check the queries for
>te presence of variable names and fill in he data.
>Here's a quick alternative, which uses the built-in
>substitution scheme:
>--
>    revExecuteSQL tDatabaseID,"insert into
>  test.nflstats(Name, Team, Position,
>  Rushing, Receiving) values(:1,:2,:3,:4,:5)", tName,
>tTeam, tPosition,
>  tRushing, tReceiving
>--
>See the docs for a full explanation.
>
>Hope this helped,
>
>Jan Schenkel.
>
>Quartam - Tools for Revolution
><http://www.quartam.com>
>
>=====
>"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  
>(La Rochefoucauld)
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Thu Oct  6 17:36:11 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:36:11 -0700
Subject: TEST - please ignore
Message-ID: <BF6AE6DB.37FF6%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>


-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 18:56:01 2005
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 06:56:01 +0800
Subject: change the size of the box in a checkbox
In-Reply-To: <f73a98160510060220p16fdeaaaq6c2defe502e99d9f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20051004104245.f4cexvyvkck4swgk@webmail.armbase.com>
	<f73a98160510040443o6111537em10faf14efc6126de@mail.gmail.com>
	<20051004144839.th0k11klog4kgcg0@webmail.armbase.com>
	<f73a98160510060220p16fdeaaaq6c2defe502e99d9f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f73a98160510061556k35a0b16yfc9f92f92a163f64@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/6/05, Kay C Lan <lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> on menuPick tMyChoice --your choice is sent to here
> switch tMyChoice --switch will look for a match
> case ("Standard")
> --remember setting them to zero will return to normal size
> set the icon of button "CheckBox1" to 0
> set the hilitedIcon of button "CheckBox1" to 0
> set the disabledIcon of button "CheckBox1" to 0
> set the rectangle of button "CheckBox1" to 25,25,65,47
> break
> case ("Medium")



Whooops

That should be 'to empty' not 'to 0'. 'empty' will give you the default
icon.

Hope I caught it before you had too much 'What the...' :-)

Cheers


From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 18:57:38 2005
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 06:57:38 +0800
Subject: Speed optimisation
In-Reply-To: <434508BC.2070202@tweedly.net>
References: <BF6A19BE.1330E%dick.kriesel@mail.com>
	<434508BC.2070202@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <f73a98160510061557m3ca3a711s5771aab998b093f4@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/6/05, Alex Tweedly <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:

> No, I don't think so, because your method gets wrong (IMHO) results in
> two cases :-).
>

Well spotted.

Yes I guess depending on what your going to do with it afterward it may
matter. I tend not to bother with trailling zeros as Rev does a good job,
put 20. + 20.5 will give you the correct answer. It's only if you have to
display it does it matter, and in this case maybe the result is for final
display.

The other case I'm still looking into. I'm sure your numbers were the same
as mine. More investigation requierd.

And I was so looking forward to the QP Doll;-)


From rjb at robelko.com  Thu Oct  6 19:27:42 2005
From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 01:27:42 +0200
Subject: destroyStack, was: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <BF6AC1BB.2D25D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF6AC1BB.2D25D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <a06110401bf6b606f2867@[141.89.100.174]>

>On 10/6/05 3:23 AM, "simplsol at aol.com" <simplsol at aol.com> wrote:
>
>>  Jeanne,
>>   It got 5 of my votes as well.
>>   But I think there is more confusion here.
>
>Paul, I think the open/close and load/purge ideas are great, with a few
>minor changes (plus I've included other terms in use to get an overview of
>the situation):
>
>load stack <stackDescriptor>
>     Loads stack into memory, does not display it, does not get listed in the
>'openstacks'. [Resulting status: loaded]
>
>unload stack <stackDescriptor>
>     Removes stack from memory (Note: does not work on 'open' stacks.)
>[Resulting status: closed]
>
>open stack <stackDescriptor>
>     Loads stack into memory, makes it visible, locks stack from other users,
>adds entry to 'openStacks'. [Resulting status: open]
>
>open inv[isible] stack <stackDescriptor>
>     Loads stack into memory, keeps it hidden, locks stack from other users,
>adds entry to 'openStacks'.  [Resulting status: open]
>
>close stack <stackDescriptor>
>     Releases lock on stack, removes the stack image from the screen, unloads
>the stack from memory, removes the entry from the 'openStacks'.  [Resulting
>status: closed]
>
>close stack <stackDescriptor> and remain resident
>     Releases lock on stack, removes the stack image from the screen, removes
>the entry from the 'openStacks', but keeps the stack in memory. [Resulting
>status: loaded]
>
>hide stack <stackDescriptor>
>     Hides the stack image from the screen. (Note: does not work on closed
>stacks.)  [Resulting status: open]
>
>show stack <stackDescriptor>
>     Shows the stack image. (Note: does not work on closed stacks.)
>[Resulting status: open]
>
>That's my 2 cents...
>

Not really wanting to prolong this but...

What happens when user clicks the close box of a stack window? Is the 
stack closing or hiding?

How is this going to work with a substack that is shown repeatedly as 
a modal dialog or a palette upon some user action, so it should stay 
in memory? Many of my dialog stacks (particularly modeless) use 
openstack to initialize things and closestack to wrap things up.

What happens if the stack was loaded but then needs to be shown to 
user? Does it have to be first unloaded before opening?

Robert


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Oct  6 21:16:44 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 18:16:44 -0700
Subject: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <434553C3.3020104@chipp.com>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com> <4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>
	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
	<4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com>	<4344273B.5030208@hyperactivesw.com>
	<434431D1.7020601@fourthworld.com>
	<75C1580B-9C31-423F-AF86-EF7B59C235B3@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<43449383.6030505@hyperactivesw.com>	<434497A5.6060904@fourthworld.com>
	<8C798451A29F52E-3E4-28C2@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
	<p0621020abf6a58d049f2@[66.93.39.98]>
	<11886457969.20051006091755@ahsoftware.net>
	<8C798AA82F388CF-1D30-10CE9@mblk-d43.sysops.aol.com>
	<434553C3.3020104@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <p06210216bf6b7c360c71@[66.93.39.98]>

At 11:41 AM -0500 10/6/2005, Chipp Walters wrote:
>I, for one, hope it doesn't dissapear, as I use 'delete stack' quite 
>often. It's the only sure-fire way to make sure a stack is closed, 
>and I'd have to rewrite many, many stacks if it went away.
>
>It's unfortunately named, and could certainly use a better synonym. 
>But it does 'delete a stack from memory' as it says. Once you get 
>the hang of it, and know to never use it on subStacks, it's not too 
>bad.

Take a look at the proposal, Chipp. It's to deprecate "delete stack" 
and replace it with two new commands - one to delete a substack from 
its stack file, and the other to remove a main stack from memory. The 
functionality will still be there - just split into two commands, to 
match the two things delete stack does. ;-)
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Thu Oct  6 21:39:04 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 18:39:04 -0700
Subject: Copy Image
Message-ID: <BF6B1FC8.3803A%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Hello,

Thanks for all the help last few days... Now I have another question.

I am trying to copy an image from the current  card to a card in another
stack.  The code looks like this

            copy img "image" to cd tCard of stack "Data"

The image actually moves over to the card just fine. BUT I get an Execution
Error.

Does anybody know why?

Thanks so much

Todd

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Oct  6 22:27:21 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 22:27:21 -0400
Subject: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <p06210216bf6b7c360c71@[66.93.39.98]>
References: <66.60b63ad7.30753f21@aol.com> <4343E768.5080007@fourthworld.com>
	<8C797D4F6F7A346-1488-420A@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
	<4343EEC4.9070007@fourthworld.com>	<4344273B.5030208@hyperactivesw.com>
	<434431D1.7020601@fourthworld.com>
	<75C1580B-9C31-423F-AF86-EF7B59C235B3@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<43449383.6030505@hyperactivesw.com>	<434497A5.6060904@fourthworld.com>
	<8C798451A29F52E-3E4-28C2@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com>
	<p0621020abf6a58d049f2@[66.93.39.98]>
	<11886457969.20051006091755@ahsoftware.net>
	<8C798AA82F388CF-1D30-10CE9@mblk-d43.sysops.aol.com>
	<434553C3.3020104@chipp.com> <p06210216bf6b7c360c71@[66.93.39.98]>
Message-ID: <0125d6b54a487185d1c01172004739a9@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 6, 2005, at 9:16 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> Take a look at the proposal, Chipp. It's to deprecate "delete stack" 
> and replace it with two new commands - one to delete a substack from 
> its stack file, and the other to remove a main stack from memory. The 
> functionality will still be there - just split into two commands, to 
> match the two things delete stack does.

Right, so long as deprecation means "it still functions, we just 
recommend not using it any more", then that should be fine. Like Chipp, 
I have that function everywhere in my stacks.

Though, given transcript's immense dictionary, it doesn't look like 
much ever actually gets removed, just updated with new preferred 
syntax... which for the most part, is a good thing. Certainly in terms 
of backward compatibility if not "crispness."  ;-)

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From dick.kriesel at mail.com  Thu Oct  6 23:56:05 2005
From: dick.kriesel at mail.com (Dick Kriesel)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 20:56:05 -0700
Subject: Speed optimisation
In-Reply-To: <434508BC.2070202@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <BF6B3FE5.13371%dick.kriesel@mail.com>

On 10/6/05 4:21 AM, "Alex Tweedly" <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:

> Hmmm - can you give a case where Kay's method gives wrong answers
> because of a negative seconds value ?
> As far as I can see (both by inspection and by testing) it always gets
> it right.
 
Whenever the negative seconds cause the result to be negative, the result is
wrong.  For example, "00:01:00.5",-61 gives 23:59:59.5.  But even if the
convert function didn't cause a wrap-around, the result would be wrong,
because the decimal digit is appended without checking the sign. The
function would compute (60-61)&.5 = -1.5 seconds, instead of -.5 seconds.

> On the other hand, both your method and mine (which is really just a
> variant of yours) get it wrong in key cases of negative seconds (e.g.
> 00:00:00.1   - 31 gives   0:00:0-31 for you and 0:00:0-31.0 for me -
> both rather hopeless :-)

So I'm glad I wasn't throwing any stones.  Here's a new version that handles
negative seconds and negative results correctly (I think):

function addTimeAndSeconds pTime,pSeconds
  set the itemDelimiter to ":"
  put item 1 of pTime * 3600 + item 2 of pTime * 60 + item 3 of pTime \
    + pSeconds into tSeconds
  put tSeconds div 3600 & ":" & abs(tSeconds) mod 3600 div 60 & ":" \
    & abs(tSeconds) mod 60 into tTime
  if item 2 of tTime < 10 then put 0 before item 2 of tTime
  if item 3 of tTime < 10 then put 0 before item 3 of tTime
  return tTime
end addTimeAndSeconds

The new version runs faster than my old, invalid version, oddly enough.

I wonder if Rob still cares...

-- Dick




From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Fri Oct  7 00:19:48 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 21:19:48 -0700
Subject: Copy Image
In-Reply-To: <BF6B1FC8.3803A%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <BF6B4574.38061%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Let me try to give some more info.  I am so new I can't even ask the
questions correctly  :>(

I am trying to copy and image from the current card to a card in a external
stack, "GrommetData".

If the image is already there from a previous copy,  I delete it first and
then copy it to the card.

If the image is already there all works as expected, BUT if the image is not
alredy there I get an error after the image is copied.  The handler looks
like this


   IF exists (img "image" of cd tCard of stack "GrommetData") THEN
      delete img "image" of cd tCard of stack "GrommetData"
   END if
   
   copy img "image" to cd tCard of stack "GrommetData"



Again, this does not work the fiirst time, but once the image has been
copied to the target card once it works.

Does anybody have any clues?

Thanks

Todd










-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 01:47:22 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 15:47:22 +1000
Subject: Copy Image
In-Reply-To: <BF6B4574.38061%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
References: <BF6B1FC8.3803A%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
	<BF6B4574.38061%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510062247p7cf25837i40894359acd1be83@mail.gmail.com>

> I am trying to copy and image from the current card to a card in a external
> stack, "GrommetData".
>
> If the image is already there from a previous copy,  I delete it first and
> then copy it to the card.
>
> If the image is already there all works as expected, BUT if the image is not
> alredy there I get an error after the image is copied.  The handler looks
> like this
>
>
>    IF exists (img "image" of cd tCard of stack "GrommetData") THEN
>       delete img "image" of cd tCard of stack "GrommetData"
>    END if
>
>    copy img "image" to cd tCard of stack "GrommetData"
>

Hi Todd,

I just made a test with a mainStack and a sub-stack called "Sub". I
imported an image from the image library and tested it with the
following button script:

on mouseUp
  if there is an img "alerthand.gif" of cd 1 of stack "Sub" then
    delete img "alerthand.gif" of cd 1 of stack "Sub"
    wait 1 second
  end if
  copy img "alerthand.gif" to cd 1 of stack "Sub"
  put the result
end mouseUp

It all worked perfectly whether Sub had the image already or not. (The
wait is only there so that I can see that the original is really
deleted).

You say the error occurs after the image has been copied. What is the
error? What happens next in your script? If you isolate the copying
script completely, does it work then?

Cheers,
Sarah


From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Oct  7 01:53:09 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 00:53:09 -0500
Subject: Copy Image
In-Reply-To: <BF6B4574.38061%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
References: <BF6B4574.38061%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <43460D45.9040205@chipp.com>

Todd,

Gonna need some more info here.

I created two stacks "fred" and "ginger"

on stack "fred" I have an image named "image" (though 'image' is a 
reserved word, it still works as a name)

I created a second card on stack "ginger" then went to cd 1 of stack ginger

I created a button "copy" on stack "fred" with the script:

on mouseUp
   copy img "image" to cd 2 of stack "ginger"
end mouseUp

everything works fine here on the latest build of Rev 2.6 and windows XP 
and Mac OS X (10.3.8)

-Chipp



From paulclaude at postino.it  Fri Oct  7 03:11:41 2005
From: paulclaude at postino.it (Paul Claude)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 09:11:41 +0200
Subject: Shared menus
Message-ID: <BF6BEC4D.2D03%paulclaude@postino.it>

> Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
> Dude, don't get me started.
> 
> While I have apps written for Win95 that continue to run without
> difficulty in Microsoft's latest OS, on Mac we've had to port from 68k
> to PPC, and then from Classic to OS X, and even now stuff break between
> releases of OS X.

You have reason, but it must consider also that XP is only little different
from Windows 98, while Classic and MacOsX are example of a core and GUI real
progress.

However, if someone knows a workaround in order to realize a shared menu, it
will be the welcome.




From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Oct  6 21:16:56 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 18:16:56 -0700
Subject: Shared menus
In-Reply-To: <BF6B152D.2CFA%paulclaude@postino.it>
References: <BF6B152D.2CFA%paulclaude@postino.it>
Message-ID: <p06210214bf6b6e99dbdd@[66.93.39.98]>

At 5:53 PM +0200 10/6/2005, Paul Claude wrote:
>I need, as for ABDialer or Jon's Phone Tool, to make a menu available from
>any app with the possibility to make a phone call, choosing an address, etc.

There is no way currently to do this in Rev; you would need a 
low-level compiler.

Perhaps a system window would do? This is a type of palette that 
floats above all applications, so it's always in front.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Fri Oct  7 04:06:50 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 01:06:50 -0700
Subject: HELP!! - Geometry Gone Berserk, How to fix?
In-Reply-To: <a05210601bf6ab5ba8d1c@[192.168.0.100]>
References: <BF6A24E6.2D17A%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<a05210601bf6ab5ba8d1c@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <p0621021abf6bdca8a74f@[66.93.39.98]>

At 12:11 PM +0100 10/6/2005, David Burgun wrote:
>HELP! I have a Stack and the geometry has gone berserk. I have a 
>"breakpoint" inserted in a preOpenStack handler that allows me to 
>quit the startup path. If I let it continue the Stack displays and 
>the geometry has scaled/moved objects as if the Stack window were 
>MUCH bigger. If I Abort in the debugger, the stack displays ok.
>
>However, if I type:
>
>revUpdateGeometry (which would have been called on the preOpenStackk 
>path anyway)
>
>The geometry goes beswick!
>
>How it fix? Is there anyway of resetting the geometry of the Stack?


With the stack in the correct state (e.g. if you abort), try typing

   revCacheGeometry

in the message box. In theory this should rebuild the Geometry 
Manager settings, and base them off the current position and size.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Fri Oct  7 04:25:54 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:25:54 +0200
Subject: # POSSIBLY SPAM #::Re: HELP!! - Geometry Gone Berserk,
	How to fix?
In-Reply-To: <p0621021abf6bdca8a74f@[66.93.39.98]>
Message-ID: <OFB228DE66.647D1F92-ONC1257093.002DD9E9-C1257093.002E0F77@deutsche-boerse.com>

David, Jeane,

only in theory... In practice, i've seen this not work, work wrong, 
rescrew everything...
i've never seen this work correctly... I know because i tried for MONTHS 
not to go crazy
with the thing!!!

The best way to make this work:
make a handler to save all your control's positions

try rev*geocraptry

if it doesn't work, you can "restore the geometry" with your settings.

Rev's cachegeostuff doesn't work 100% correctly...

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 07/10/2005 10:06:50:

> At 12:11 PM +0100 10/6/2005, David Burgun wrote:
> >HELP! I have a Stack and the geometry has gone berserk. I have a 
> >"breakpoint" inserted in a preOpenStack handler that allows me to 
> >quit the startup path. If I let it continue the Stack displays and 
> >the geometry has scaled/moved objects as if the Stack window were 
> >MUCH bigger. If I Abort in the debugger, the stack displays ok.
> >
> >However, if I type:
> >
> >revUpdateGeometry (which would have been called on the preOpenStackk 
> >path anyway)
> >
> >The geometry goes beswick!
> >
> >How it fix? Is there anyway of resetting the geometry of the Stack?
> 
> 
> With the stack in the correct state (e.g. if you abort), try typing
> 
>    revCacheGeometry
> 
> in the message box. In theory this should rebuild the Geometry 
> Manager settings, and base them off the current position and size.
> -- 
> jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
> http://www.jaedworks.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



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From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Oct  7 07:06:26 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 12:06:26 +0100
Subject: Speed optimisation
In-Reply-To: <BF6B3FE5.13371%dick.kriesel@mail.com>
References: <BF6B3FE5.13371%dick.kriesel@mail.com>
Message-ID: <434656B2.9010506@tweedly.net>

Dick Kriesel wrote:

>On 10/6/05 4:21 AM, "Alex Tweedly" <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Hmmm - can you give a case where Kay's method gives wrong answers
>>because of a negative seconds value ?
>>As far as I can see (both by inspection and by testing) it always gets
>>it right.
>>    
>>
> 
>Whenever the negative seconds cause the result to be negative, the result is
>wrong.  For example, "00:01:00.5",-61 gives 23:59:59.5. 
>
But that's the right answer !
00:01:00.5 represents 60.5 seconds after midnight. Subtract 61 seconds 
and you should get .6 seconds before midnight - i.e. 23:59:59.5

> But even if the
>convert function didn't cause a wrap-around, the result would be wrong,
>because the decimal digit is appended without checking the sign. The
>function would compute (60-61)&.5 = -1.5 seconds, instead of -.5 seconds.
>  
>
There's no need to check a sign here. Any fractional part of a second in 
the original time value is always positive; so you always want to add 
it. Since the result is also always positive (it uses wrap-around rather 
than return negative times), the positive fractional part should always 
be added.

In the case you mention, (60-61)&.5 doesn't give -1.5, what it gives is 
the wrapped version, i.e. (something:59)&.5


>>On the other hand, both your method and mine (which is really just a
>>variant of yours) get it wrong in key cases of negative seconds (e.g.
>>00:00:00.1   - 31 gives   0:00:0-31 for you and 0:00:0-31.0 for me -
>>both rather hopeless :-)
>>    
>>
>
>So I'm glad I wasn't throwing any stones.  Here's a new version that handles
>negative seconds and negative results correctly (I think):
>
>  
>
No, it doesn't I'm afraid.
 00:00:00.0 - 31 gives a wrong answer.

You can fix that with an extra if test to put in a sign if the whole 
tSeconds is negative. But once you've done that, even using the "format" 
variant for its speed, it's slower than Kay's version using twelvehourtime.

Rob indicated in another email that they could change the spec to allow 
wrap-around within the 24-hour space.

So *if* Rob can accept the missing trailing "0" then Kay is the "winner 
apparent" for the QP (pending any other faster method).

>function addTimeAndSeconds pTime,pSeconds
>  set the itemDelimiter to ":"
>  put item 1 of pTime * 3600 + item 2 of pTime * 60 + item 3 of pTime \
>    + pSeconds into tSeconds
>  put tSeconds div 3600 & ":" & abs(tSeconds) mod 3600 div 60 & ":" \
>    & abs(tSeconds) mod 60 into tTime
>  if item 2 of tTime < 10 then put 0 before item 2 of tTime
>  if item 3 of tTime < 10 then put 0 before item 3 of tTime
>  return tTime
>end addTimeAndSeconds
>
>The new version runs faster than my old, invalid version, oddly enough.
>
>I wonder if Rob still cares...
>
>-- Dick
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>  
>


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net

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From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Fri Oct  7 07:16:41 2005
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:16:41 +0200
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
Message-ID: <43465919.4E9207D7@Club-Internet.fr>

Hi list,

example 1 :

  put 1.8 into myA
  put trunc(myA * 100) into myA

  in that case, myA=180    which is OK
------------------

example 2 :

  put 34.2 into myA
  put 36 into myT

  if myA > 0 then
    if myA < myT then
      get myA
      put myT - myA into myA
      put it into myT
    else
      put 0 into myA
    end if
  end if

  put trunc(myA * 100) into myA

  in that case, myA=179    ?????????????????????


Best,
JB



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Fri Oct  7 09:13:23 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 09:13:23 -0400
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744640@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

I get the same thing...

That's gotta be a bug.


-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of jbv
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 7:17 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?

Hi list,

example 1 :

  put 1.8 into myA
  put trunc(myA * 100) into myA

  in that case, myA=180    which is OK
------------------

example 2 :

  put 34.2 into myA
  put 36 into myT

  if myA > 0 then
    if myA < myT then
      get myA
      put myT - myA into myA
      put it into myT
    else
      put 0 into myA
    end if
  end if

  put trunc(myA * 100) into myA

  in that case, myA=179    ?????????????????????


Best,
JB

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
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From simplsol at aol.com  Fri Oct  7 09:28:01 2005
From: simplsol at aol.com (simplsol at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 09:28:01 -0400
Subject: destroyStack, was: Stack Switching Question
In-Reply-To: <a06110401bf6b606f2867@[141.89.100.174]>
References: <BF6AC1BB.2D25D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<a06110401bf6b606f2867@[141.89.100.174]>
Message-ID: <8C7995A1354CC86-1450-3041E@mblk-d35.sysops.aol.com>

Robert,
1. Clicking the "go away" box in the window of a stack should close it 
(and any substacks). In other words, clicking the close box should 
close the stack. Clicking the box in a substack should hide it.
2. You can do whatever you want with modals - probably Show and Hide, 
as needed.
3. If the stack is loaded but not visible, just Show Stack - no need to 
close or unload.
Ken seems to have all the bases covered.
Paul Looney

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Brenstein <rjb at robelko.com>
To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 01:27:42 +0200
Subject: Re: destroyStack, was: Stack Switching Question

   >On 10/6/05 3:23 AM, "simplsol at aol.com" <simplsol at aol.com> wrote:?
 >?
 >> Jeanne,?
 >> It got 5 of my votes as well.?
 >> But I think there is more confusion here.?
 >?
  >Paul, I think the open/close and load/purge ideas are great, with a 
few?
  >minor changes (plus I've included other terms in use to get an 
overview of?
 >the situation):?
 >?
 >load stack <stackDescriptor>?
  > Loads stack into memory, does not display it, does not get listed in 
the?
 >'openstacks'. [Resulting status: loaded]?
 >?
 >unload stack <stackDescriptor>?
 > Removes stack from memory (Note: does not work on 'open' stacks.)?
 >[Resulting status: closed]?
 >?
 >open stack <stackDescriptor>?
  > Loads stack into memory, makes it visible, locks stack from other 
users,?
 >adds entry to 'openStacks'. [Resulting status: open]?
 >?
 >open inv[isible] stack <stackDescriptor>?
  > Loads stack into memory, keeps it hidden, locks stack from other 
users,?
 >adds entry to 'openStacks'. [Resulting status: open]?
 >?
 >close stack <stackDescriptor>?
  > Releases lock on stack, removes the stack image from the screen, 
unloads?
  >the stack from memory, removes the entry from the 'openStacks'. 
[Resulting?
 >status: closed]?
 >?
 >close stack <stackDescriptor> and remain resident?
  > Releases lock on stack, removes the stack image from the screen, 
removes?
  >the entry from the 'openStacks', but keeps the stack in memory. 
[Resulting?
 >status: loaded]?
 >?
 >hide stack <stackDescriptor>?
  > Hides the stack image from the screen. (Note: does not work on 
closed?
 >stacks.) [Resulting status: open]?
 >?
 >show stack <stackDescriptor>?
 > Shows the stack image. (Note: does not work on closed stacks.)?
 >[Resulting status: open]?
 >?
 >That's my 2 cents...?
 >?
?
 Not really wanting to prolong this but...?
?
  What happens when user clicks the close box of a stack window? Is the 
stack closing or hiding??
?
  How is this going to work with a substack that is shown repeatedly as 
a modal dialog or a palette upon some user action, so it should stay in 
memory? Many of my dialog stacks (particularly modeless) use openstack 
to initialize things and closestack to wrap things up.?
?
  What happens if the stack was loaded but then needs to be shown to 
user? Does it have to be first unloaded before opening??
?
 Robert?
 _______________________________________________?
 use-revolution mailing list?
 use-revolution at lists.runrev.com?
  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:?
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution?

    


From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Fri Oct  7 09:31:46 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 09:31:46 -0400
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744641@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

Even just this simple line produces the same error:

answer trunc((36-34.2)*100)

This is odd...

Look at the results I get when testing this:

Trunc((36-34.1)*100) should = 190, but returns 189
Trunc((36-34.2)*100) should = 180, but returns 179
Trunc((36-34.3)*100) should = 170, and in fact does return 170
Trunc((36-34.4)*100) should = 160, and in fact does return 160

Trunc((1.8)*100) returns 180, like it should
Trunc((1.9)*100) returns 190, like it should

So...

Somehow, Rev is performing 36-34.2, and even though it displays that
number as 1.8, it must be processing it internally as
1.799999999999999999999999999 or something like that.

Very disturbing - This could affect a program of mine.

It is easily worked around, with a function like this:

function trueTrunc pNumber
  set the itemdelimiter to "."
  return item 1 of pNumber
end trueTrunc

But still, trunc should work properly. That makes me wonder if any other
math functions might have some underlying weirdness.



-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Lynch,
Jonathan
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 9:13 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: RE: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?

I get the same thing...

That's gotta be a bug.


-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of jbv
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 7:17 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?

Hi list,

example 1 :

  put 1.8 into myA
  put trunc(myA * 100) into myA

  in that case, myA=180    which is OK
------------------

example 2 :

  put 34.2 into myA
  put 36 into myT

  if myA > 0 then
    if myA < myT then
      get myA
      put myT - myA into myA
      put it into myT
    else
      put 0 into myA
    end if
  end if

  put trunc(myA * 100) into myA

  in that case, myA=179    ?????????????????????


Best,
JB

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

_______________________________________________
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From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Fri Oct  7 09:46:28 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 09:46:28 -0400
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744642@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

Further confirmation of what JB noticed:

This:
round(((36-34.2)*100)-.5)

also returns 179, when it should return 180.

So the problem is not in the trunc function itself, it is in the way Rev
performs a calculation like 36-34.2   -- How many accounting errors
might this have caused for people?

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Lynch,
Jonathan
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 9:32 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: RE: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?

Even just this simple line produces the same error:

answer trunc((36-34.2)*100)

This is odd...

Look at the results I get when testing this:

Trunc((36-34.1)*100) should = 190, but returns 189
Trunc((36-34.2)*100) should = 180, but returns 179
Trunc((36-34.3)*100) should = 170, and in fact does return 170
Trunc((36-34.4)*100) should = 160, and in fact does return 160

Trunc((1.8)*100) returns 180, like it should
Trunc((1.9)*100) returns 190, like it should

So...

Somehow, Rev is performing 36-34.2, and even though it displays that
number as 1.8, it must be processing it internally as
1.799999999999999999999999999 or something like that.

Very disturbing - This could affect a program of mine.

It is easily worked around, with a function like this:

function trueTrunc pNumber
  set the itemdelimiter to "."
  return item 1 of pNumber
end trueTrunc

But still, trunc should work properly. That makes me wonder if any other
math functions might have some underlying weirdness.



-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Lynch,
Jonathan
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 9:13 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: RE: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?

I get the same thing...

That's gotta be a bug.


-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of jbv
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 7:17 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?

Hi list,

example 1 :

  put 1.8 into myA
  put trunc(myA * 100) into myA

  in that case, myA=180    which is OK
------------------

example 2 :

  put 34.2 into myA
  put 36 into myT

  if myA > 0 then
    if myA < myT then
      get myA
      put myT - myA into myA
      put it into myT
    else
      put 0 into myA
    end if
  end if

  put trunc(myA * 100) into myA

  in that case, myA=179    ?????????????????????


Best,
JB

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

_______________________________________________
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use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
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Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
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From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Fri Oct  7 10:02:07 2005
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 16:02:07 +0200
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744641@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <43467FD8.F4240A85@Club-Internet.fr>

According to my tests (which aren't exhaustive)
there seems to be another workaround :

  put 36 into A
  put 34.2 into B
  put A-B into C

  put C*100 into C
  put trunc(C)

this gives 180 as a result, while the following line
(replacing the last 2 of the above example) gives 179

  put trunc(C*100) into C

JB



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Fri Oct  7 10:00:31 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:00:31 -0400
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A99682CB@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

I just tried this script - but I still get 179

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of jbv
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 10:02 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?

According to my tests (which aren't exhaustive)
there seems to be another workaround :

  put 36 into A
  put 34.2 into B
  put A-B into C

  put C*100 into C
  put trunc(C)

this gives 180 as a result, while the following line
(replacing the last 2 of the above example) gives 179

  put trunc(C*100) into C

JB

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From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Fri Oct  7 10:26:34 2005
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 16:26:34 +0200
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A99682CB@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <43468593.B8D26911@Club-Internet.fr>

with Rev 2.5 on Mac OS9.1 the following
gives 180

  put 36 into A
  put 34.2 into B
  put A-B into C

  put C*100 into C
  put trunc(C)

but with Rev 2.5 Linux I still get 179...

so much for Xplatform compatibility :(

JB


> I just tried this script - but I still get 179
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of jbv
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 10:02 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
>
> According to my tests (which aren't exhaustive)
> there seems to be another workaround :
>
>   put 36 into A
>   put 34.2 into B
>   put A-B into C
>
>   put C*100 into C
>   put trunc(C)
>
> this gives 180 as a result, while the following line
> (replacing the last 2 of the above example) gives 179
>
>   put trunc(C*100) into C
>
> JB
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Oct  7 10:20:05 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 15:20:05 +0100
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744641@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744641@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <43468415.1030507@tweedly.net>

Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

>Even just this simple line produces the same error:
><snip>
>Somehow, Rev is performing 36-34.2, and even though it displays that
>number as 1.8, it must be processing it internally as
>1.799999999999999999999999999 or something like that.
>
>Very disturbing - This could affect a program of mine.
>
>It is easily worked around, with a function like this:
>
>function trueTrunc pNumber
>  set the itemdelimiter to "."
>  return item 1 of pNumber
>end trueTrunc
>
>  
>
That won't necessarily work. trueTrunc(179.9999) ==> 179
You need to be very careful how you test things like this .... given 
half a chance, Transcript will use a string representation rather than 
an arithmetic one.

set the itemDel to "."
put <something> into myT
put item 1 of myT && trunc(myT)

Gives the following results
"something"     output
179.99999999    179 179  (it used the string repr)
179.99999999+0  180 179
   (the addition forced arithmetic representation - and then got 
rounding; trunc didn't get any rounding).

>But still, trunc should work properly. That makes me wonder if any other
>math functions might have some underlying weirdness.
>  
>
(see the little snippet above :-)

As I understand it (though I can't now find it in the docs), when doing 
arithmetic Transcript represents numbers in the most suitable format - 
either integer or double-prec floating point. In the example here, 
because it has "34.2" the suitable precision is double. Since many 
"simple" decimal floating values can't be exactly represented in binary 
floating point format, there is always a chance of minor discrepancies 
between the "obvious" value and the precise one used by Transcript.

Transcript does a good job of "magically" rounding as needed - but the 
issue is still there.

trunc(x) is always dangerous because it will truncate down to the lower 
integral part (e.g. 179.9999999  --> 179) if there is even the tiniest 
discrepancy. Much safer would be to trunc(x+delta), where delta is the 
level of accuracy required - say typically delta = 0.000005

trueTrunc() will be slightly "safer" because it uses Transcripts "magic" 
conversion, and hence rounds off at some nominal level - probably 6 
decimal places or something like that -- but if it were me I'd rather 
take control and determine for myself what number of digits to do the 
rounding at.

I do not believe this is a bug - merely a trap for the unwary.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/123 - Release Date: 06/10/2005



From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Fri Oct  7 10:23:06 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 07:23:06 -0700
Subject: Copy Image
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860510062247p7cf25837i40894359acd1be83@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BF6BD2DA.380D5%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Thanks Chip and Sarah for your responses.

It seems to be a false alarm. Or at least not a real problem for rev but
rather for Constellation...  :>(

I love Constellation.  Jerry has done a terrific job. But it seems to be
throwing a phantom error here.  Or at least switching to using Rev's Object
editors removes the error.  I am going to see if I can recreate the problem
in simple stack pair and send it to Jerry.

Thanks
Again

Todd


On 10/6/05 10:47 PM, "Sarah Reichelt" <sarah.reichelt at gmail.com> wrote:

>> I am trying to copy and image from the current card to a card in a external
>> stack, "GrommetData".
>> 
>> If the image is already there from a previous copy,  I delete it first and
>> then copy it to the card.
>> 
>> If the image is already there all works as expected, BUT if the image is not
>> alredy there I get an error after the image is copied.  The handler looks
>> like this
>> 
>> 
>>    IF exists (img "image" of cd tCard of stack "GrommetData") THEN
>>       delete img "image" of cd tCard of stack "GrommetData"
>>    END if
>> 
>>    copy img "image" to cd tCard of stack "GrommetData"
>> 
> 
> Hi Todd,
> 
> I just made a test with a mainStack and a sub-stack called "Sub". I
> imported an image from the image library and tested it with the
> following button script:
> 
> on mouseUp
>   if there is an img "alerthand.gif" of cd 1 of stack "Sub" then
>     delete img "alerthand.gif" of cd 1 of stack "Sub"
>     wait 1 second
>   end if
>   copy img "alerthand.gif" to cd 1 of stack "Sub"
>   put the result
> end mouseUp
> 
> It all worked perfectly whether Sub had the image already or not. (The
> wait is only there so that I can see that the original is really
> deleted).
> 
> You say the error occurs after the image has been copied. What is the
> error? What happens next in your script? If you isolate the copying
> script completely, does it work then?
> 
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Fri Oct  7 10:22:51 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:22:51 -0400
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A99682CC@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

Um...

Really freakin' weird!

I am on win 2000, and that script returns 179

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of jbv
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 10:27 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?

with Rev 2.5 on Mac OS9.1 the following
gives 180

  put 36 into A
  put 34.2 into B
  put A-B into C

  put C*100 into C
  put trunc(C)

but with Rev 2.5 Linux I still get 179...

so much for Xplatform compatibility :(

JB


> I just tried this script - but I still get 179
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of jbv
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 10:02 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
>
> According to my tests (which aren't exhaustive)
> there seems to be another workaround :
>
>   put 36 into A
>   put 34.2 into B
>   put A-B into C
>
>   put C*100 into C
>   put trunc(C)
>
> this gives 180 as a result, while the following line
> (replacing the last 2 of the above example) gives 179
>
>   put trunc(C*100) into C
>
> JB
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

_______________________________________________
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Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
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From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Fri Oct  7 10:26:57 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:26:57 -0400
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A99682CD@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

If you add in a line like this:

Put char 1 to -1 of C into C


then it forces Rev to use the proper number, rather than the
almost-but-not-quite proper number - but man, that has gotta slow things
down. Basically, that is forcing it to convert it from a number to text,
then back to a number. For mass calculations, that would be a real
problem.

But, it is another work-around

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of jbv
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 10:27 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?

with Rev 2.5 on Mac OS9.1 the following
gives 180

  put 36 into A
  put 34.2 into B
  put A-B into C

  put C*100 into C
  put trunc(C)

but with Rev 2.5 Linux I still get 179...

so much for Xplatform compatibility :(

JB


> I just tried this script - but I still get 179
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of jbv
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 10:02 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
>
> According to my tests (which aren't exhaustive)
> there seems to be another workaround :
>
>   put 36 into A
>   put 34.2 into B
>   put A-B into C
>
>   put C*100 into C
>   put trunc(C)
>
> this gives 180 as a result, while the following line
> (replacing the last 2 of the above example) gives 179
>
>   put trunc(C*100) into C
>
> JB
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

_______________________________________________
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From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Fri Oct  7 10:31:26 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:31:26 -0400
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A99682CE@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

The method you are suggesting would also be faster, because it does not
force a type conversion

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Alex
Tweedly
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 10:20 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?

Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

>Even just this simple line produces the same error:
><snip>
>Somehow, Rev is performing 36-34.2, and even though it displays that
>number as 1.8, it must be processing it internally as
>1.799999999999999999999999999 or something like that.
>
>Very disturbing - This could affect a program of mine.
>
>It is easily worked around, with a function like this:
>
>function trueTrunc pNumber
>  set the itemdelimiter to "."
>  return item 1 of pNumber
>end trueTrunc
>
>  
>
That won't necessarily work. trueTrunc(179.9999) ==> 179
You need to be very careful how you test things like this .... given 
half a chance, Transcript will use a string representation rather than 
an arithmetic one.

set the itemDel to "."
put <something> into myT
put item 1 of myT && trunc(myT)

Gives the following results
"something"     output
179.99999999    179 179  (it used the string repr)
179.99999999+0  180 179
   (the addition forced arithmetic representation - and then got 
rounding; trunc didn't get any rounding).

>But still, trunc should work properly. That makes me wonder if any
other
>math functions might have some underlying weirdness.
>  
>
(see the little snippet above :-)

As I understand it (though I can't now find it in the docs), when doing 
arithmetic Transcript represents numbers in the most suitable format - 
either integer or double-prec floating point. In the example here, 
because it has "34.2" the suitable precision is double. Since many 
"simple" decimal floating values can't be exactly represented in binary 
floating point format, there is always a chance of minor discrepancies 
between the "obvious" value and the precise one used by Transcript.

Transcript does a good job of "magically" rounding as needed - but the 
issue is still there.

trunc(x) is always dangerous because it will truncate down to the lower 
integral part (e.g. 179.9999999  --> 179) if there is even the tiniest 
discrepancy. Much safer would be to trunc(x+delta), where delta is the 
level of accuracy required - say typically delta = 0.000005

trueTrunc() will be slightly "safer" because it uses Transcripts "magic"

conversion, and hence rounds off at some nominal level - probably 6 
decimal places or something like that -- but if it were me I'd rather 
take control and determine for myself what number of digits to do the 
rounding at.

I do not believe this is a bug - merely a trap for the unwary.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/123 - Release Date:
06/10/2005

_______________________________________________
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use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
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From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Fri Oct  7 10:37:13 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:37:13 -0400
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744643@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

But still...

Answer trunc((36-34.2)*100) should return 180, not 179. I mean, the
underlying code should work to return an accurate value. Perhaps it is
just a matter of opinion, but to me, if the software returns a wrong
value in a calculation, it is a bug.

I use trunc in a calendar that calculates things like the number of
weeks in a month, or which days belong in which week of a given month.
An error of this sort could put a day into the wrong week.

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Alex
Tweedly
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 10:20 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?

Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

>Even just this simple line produces the same error:
><snip>
>Somehow, Rev is performing 36-34.2, and even though it displays that
>number as 1.8, it must be processing it internally as
>1.799999999999999999999999999 or something like that.
>
>Very disturbing - This could affect a program of mine.
>
>It is easily worked around, with a function like this:
>
>function trueTrunc pNumber
>  set the itemdelimiter to "."
>  return item 1 of pNumber
>end trueTrunc
>
>  
>
That won't necessarily work. trueTrunc(179.9999) ==> 179
You need to be very careful how you test things like this .... given 
half a chance, Transcript will use a string representation rather than 
an arithmetic one.

set the itemDel to "."
put <something> into myT
put item 1 of myT && trunc(myT)

Gives the following results
"something"     output
179.99999999    179 179  (it used the string repr)
179.99999999+0  180 179
   (the addition forced arithmetic representation - and then got 
rounding; trunc didn't get any rounding).

>But still, trunc should work properly. That makes me wonder if any
other
>math functions might have some underlying weirdness.
>  
>
(see the little snippet above :-)

As I understand it (though I can't now find it in the docs), when doing 
arithmetic Transcript represents numbers in the most suitable format - 
either integer or double-prec floating point. In the example here, 
because it has "34.2" the suitable precision is double. Since many 
"simple" decimal floating values can't be exactly represented in binary 
floating point format, there is always a chance of minor discrepancies 
between the "obvious" value and the precise one used by Transcript.

Transcript does a good job of "magically" rounding as needed - but the 
issue is still there.

trunc(x) is always dangerous because it will truncate down to the lower 
integral part (e.g. 179.9999999  --> 179) if there is even the tiniest 
discrepancy. Much safer would be to trunc(x+delta), where delta is the 
level of accuracy required - say typically delta = 0.000005

trueTrunc() will be slightly "safer" because it uses Transcripts "magic"

conversion, and hence rounds off at some nominal level - probably 6 
decimal places or something like that -- but if it were me I'd rather 
take control and determine for myself what number of digits to do the 
rounding at.

I do not believe this is a bug - merely a trap for the unwary.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/123 - Release Date:
06/10/2005

_______________________________________________
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From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Oct  7 14:14:47 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 19:14:47 +0100
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744643@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744643@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <4346BB17.8020709@tweedly.net>

Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

>But still...
>
>Answer trunc((36-34.2)*100) should return 180, not 179. 
>
No it shouldn't.

>I mean, the
>underlying code should work to return an accurate value. 
>
It does.

>Perhaps it is just a matter of opinion, but to me, if the software returns a wrong
>value in a calculation, it is a bug.
>
>  
>
It's not a matter of opinion, and it's not a wrong answer - it's a 
correct answer. The binary double precision representation of 34.2 is 
inexact, and hence the binary double precision representation of 36-34.2 
is similarly inexact - so instead of exactly 180, it's about 1x2**-40 
less than that. 

And then when you use trunc() it does what you ask.

It's NOT a Rev bug - it's an artifact of double precision binary 
arithmetic (or, if you like, an artifact of the IEEE format used by 
Intel (and everyone else)).

Here's the equivalent C program and its output (Intel P4, WinXP, 
Bloodshed C++ IDE):

> #include <stdio.h>
> #include <stdlib.h>
> #include <math.h>
>
> int main(int argc, char *argv[])
> {
>   double f1, f2;
>   double t1, t2;
>   int i;
>   f1 = 36.0;
>   f2 = 34.2;
>   printf("%6.4f %6.4f\n", f1, f2);
>   t1 = 100.0*(f1-f2);
>   t2 = trunc(t1);
>   printf("%6.4f gives %6.4f\n", t1, t2);
>  
>   system("PAUSE");    
>   return 0;
> }

36.0000 34.2000
180.0000 gives 179.0000

>I use trunc in a calendar that calculates things like the number of
>weeks in a month, or which days belong in which week of a given month.
>An error of this sort could put a day into the wrong week.
>
>  
>
Users of trunc() (whichever language they use it in :-) should be wary 
of the dangers.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/123 - Release Date: 06/10/2005



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Fri Oct  7 14:20:06 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 14:20:06 -0400
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744644@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

>It's NOT a Rev bug - it's an artifact of double precision binary
arithmetic >(or, if you like, an artifact of the IEEE format used by
Intel (and >everyone else)).

Alex, your explanation makes perfect sense, and I accept that it is not
a Rev bug.

But...

I still don't like it, though.


This affects both the trunc and round functions. Are there any others
that are affected by this?



From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Fri Oct  7 15:30:44 2005
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:30:44 +0200
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744643@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<4346BB17.8020709@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <4346CCDA.186BFCD6@Club-Internet.fr>



Alex,

> Users of trunc() (whichever language they use it in :-) should be wary
> of the dangers.
>

Thank you so much for your explanations. As for rev users, I strongly
suggest that this "potential problem" should be mentioned in the doc,
at least in the part dedicated to the trunc() function...

Nevertheless, how do you explain that the following :

  put 36 into A
  put 34.2 into B
  put A-B into C

  put C*100 into C
  put trunc(C)

returns 180 with Rev 2.5 on Mac OS9, but returns 179 on other
platforms such as Linux or Win2000 ?

Just curious...

JB



From rev at armbase.com  Fri Oct  7 15:36:11 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 20:36:11 +0100
Subject: enlarge field to size of labeltext
Message-ID: <20051007203611.oy2l24mas4k88o04@webmail.armbase.com>

Hi All

I have a button that resizes a label (custonlabel) via 2 fields labelnewname and
labelnewtextsize.

the script is

on mouseUp
  set the text of field CustomLabel to field LabelNewName
  set the textsize of field CustomLabel to field LabelNewTextsize
end mouseUp

I have a large area for the label but if I add too much text or too large a
font, the new label is only partially visible because most is outwith the
boundary of the label field.

Is there a  way to dynamically resize the field "customlabel" to enlarge to the
size of the text?

cheers
Bob



From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Oct  7 16:15:28 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:15:28 +0100
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
In-Reply-To: <4346CCDA.186BFCD6@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744643@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>	<4346BB17.8020709@tweedly.net>
	<4346CCDA.186BFCD6@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <4346D760.4040805@tweedly.net>

jbv wrote:

> Nevertheless, how do you explain that the following :
>
>  put 36 into A
>  put 34.2 into B
>  put A-B into C
>
>  put C*100 into C
>  put trunc(C)
>
>returns 180 with Rev 2.5 on Mac OS9, but returns 179 on other
>platforms such as Linux or Win2000 ?
>
>Just curious...
>  
>
I was curious about that too.

What's the hardware involved in each case ? Are they all the same ?

It could be differences in the floating-point hardware (or floating 
point emulation library).
Or it could be difference in the library used by Rev to convert from the 
text string into fp format (if it chose a different value for the last 
bit, it would be "180+tiny delta" instead of 180-tiny delta" (once 
multiplied by 100) and then the trunc() call would get a different answer. 

Remember they may *both* be considered correct answers, depending on the 
binary representation used by different machines / libraries.
(Sigh. I don't like it either Jonathan - but after 34 years of computing 
in a wide variety of languages, I'm getting used to it :-)

(I'm hoping that the OS9 machine is an old Motorola based machine, 
rather than a PPC-based and Intel-based machine, and that I can use that 
as my answer :-) :-)   Though come to think of it, even if it's a modern 
Mac (i.e. PPC) that may be different enough from the Linux/Win machines 
you tried.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/123 - Release Date: 06/10/2005



From contact at setec-multimedia.fr  Fri Oct  7 16:36:03 2005
From: contact at setec-multimedia.fr (Setec Multimedia)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 22:36:03 +0200
Subject: Playing with strings
Message-ID: <35d66ac11d0f6f004b3a0e31465114cd@setec-multimedia.fr>

Hello everybody,

I'm curenytly trying to perform a small utility wich would extract the 
text datas of an html file into separated items or lines of a field.
For example, this html code :
?
<strong><font size="1">example of texte 1 <br>
<a href="#link"><br>
example of link</a></font></strong>
?

?would return these result in a defined field :

example of texte 1
example of link

The problem is that it seems impossible to extract something beetween 
two items (simply beetween the ">" and "<" tags) in a simple way.

Do you see any good way to do this ?

Thanks for you help,

Cordialy

Aur?lien Durand


From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Oct  7 16:50:23 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 15:50:23 -0500
Subject: Playing with strings
In-Reply-To: <35d66ac11d0f6f004b3a0e31465114cd@setec-multimedia.fr>
References: <35d66ac11d0f6f004b3a0e31465114cd@setec-multimedia.fr>
Message-ID: <4346DF8F.9090707@chipp.com>

Easy,

create a field, set the htmlText of the field to your html, then get the 
text of the field. It will strip out the tags for you.

best,

Chipp

Setec Multimedia wrote:
> Hello everybody,
> 
> I'm curenytly trying to perform a small utility wich would extract the 
> text datas of an html file into separated items or lines of a field.
> For example, this html code :
> ?
> <strong><font size="1">example of texte 1 <br>
> <a href="#link"><br>
> example of link</a></font></strong>
> ?
> 
> ?would return these result in a defined field :
> 
> example of texte 1
> example of link
> 
> The problem is that it seems impossible to extract something beetween 
> two items (simply beetween the ">" and "<" tags) in a simple way.
> 
> Do you see any good way to do this ?



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 17:30:43 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 07:30:43 +1000
Subject: enlarge field to size of labeltext
In-Reply-To: <20051007203611.oy2l24mas4k88o04@webmail.armbase.com>
References: <20051007203611.oy2l24mas4k88o04@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510071430i14e4547u5d2562b57e87f0af@mail.gmail.com>

> I have a button that resizes a label (custonlabel) via 2 fields labelnewname and
> labelnewtextsize.
>
> the script is
>
> on mouseUp
>   set the text of field CustomLabel to field LabelNewName
>   set the textsize of field CustomLabel to field LabelNewTextsize
> end mouseUp
>
> I have a large area for the label but if I add too much text or too large a
> font, the new label is only partially visible because most is outwith the
> boundary of the label field.
>
> Is there a  way to dynamically resize the field "customlabel" to enlarge to the
> size of the text?
>

set the width of fld "CustomLabel" to the formattedWidth of fld "CustomLabel"
set the height of fld "CustomLabel" to the formattedHeight of fld "CustomLabel"

Cheers,
Sarah


From rev at armbase.com  Fri Oct  7 17:49:03 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 22:49:03 +0100
Subject: enlarge field to size of labeltext
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860510071430i14e4547u5d2562b57e87f0af@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20051007203611.oy2l24mas4k88o04@webmail.armbase.com>
	<f99b52860510071430i14e4547u5d2562b57e87f0af@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051007224903.ipzrsvwrw4gok4oc@webmail.armbase.com>

Quoting Sarah Reichelt <sarah.reichelt at gmail.com>:

Hi Sarah

Thanks, that is exactly what I wanted.

I've left the text quoted below for anyone searchig the archives.

Cheers
Bob; sunny Scotland (honest)

>> I have a button that resizes a label (custonlabel) via 2 fields 
>> labelnewname and
>> labelnewtextsize.
>>
>> the script is
>>
>> on mouseUp
>>   set the text of field CustomLabel to field LabelNewName
>>   set the textsize of field CustomLabel to field LabelNewTextsize
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> I have a large area for the label but if I add too much text or too large a
>> font, the new label is only partially visible because most is outwith the
>> boundary of the label field.
>>
>> Is there a  way to dynamically resize the field "customlabel" to 
>> enlarge to the
>> size of the text?
>>
>
> set the width of fld "CustomLabel" to the formattedWidth of fld "CustomLabel"
> set the height of fld "CustomLabel" to the formattedHeight of fld 
> "CustomLabel"
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>





From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Fri Oct  7 18:32:13 2005
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 17:32:13 -0500
Subject: Copy Image
In-Reply-To: <BF6BD2DA.380D5%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
References: <BF6BD2DA.380D5%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <89E0F27C-27AE-4554-8910-1D3D5EDED517@daniels-mara.com>

Todd,

By all means, send an example along to me. If I can replicate it, I  
can fix it.

I copy images pretty often but have not had any problems with it, but  
that doesn't mean there isn't a bug in there waiting to be fixed.
Best,

Jerry

On Oct 7, 2005, at 9:23 AM, Todd Geist wrote:

> Thanks Chip and Sarah for your responses.
>
> It seems to be a false alarm. Or at least not a real problem for  
> rev but
> rather for Constellation...  :>(
>
> I love Constellation.  Jerry has done a terrific job. But it seems  
> to be
> throwing a phantom error here.  Or at least switching to using  
> Rev's Object
> editors removes the error.  I am going to see if I can recreate the  
> problem
> in simple stack pair and send it to Jerry.
>
> Thanks
> Again
>
> Todd
>
>
> On 10/6/05 10:47 PM, "Sarah Reichelt" <sarah.reichelt at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>
>
>>> I am trying to copy and image from the current card to a card in  
>>> a external
>>> stack, "GrommetData".
>>>
>>> If the image is already there from a previous copy,  I delete it  
>>> first and
>>> then copy it to the card.
>>>
>>> If the image is already there all works as expected, BUT if the  
>>> image is not
>>> alredy there I get an error after the image is copied.  The  
>>> handler looks
>>> like this
>>>
>>>
>>>    IF exists (img "image" of cd tCard of stack "GrommetData") THEN
>>>       delete img "image" of cd tCard of stack "GrommetData"
>>>    END if
>>>
>>>    copy img "image" to cd tCard of stack "GrommetData"
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Hi Todd,
>>
>> I just made a test with a mainStack and a sub-stack called "Sub". I
>> imported an image from the image library and tested it with the
>> following button script:
>>
>> on mouseUp
>>   if there is an img "alerthand.gif" of cd 1 of stack "Sub" then
>>     delete img "alerthand.gif" of cd 1 of stack "Sub"
>>     wait 1 second
>>   end if
>>   copy img "alerthand.gif" to cd 1 of stack "Sub"
>>   put the result
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> It all worked perfectly whether Sub had the image already or not.  
>> (The
>> wait is only there so that I can see that the original is really
>> deleted).
>>
>> You say the error occurs after the image has been copied. What is the
>> error? What happens next in your script? If you isolate the copying
>> script completely, does it work then?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Sarah
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> -- 
>
> Todd Geist
> ______________________________________
> g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Oct  7 18:39:50 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 17:39:50 -0500
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
In-Reply-To: <4346CCDA.186BFCD6@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <BF6C6366.2D47F%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/7/05 2:30 PM, "jbv" <jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr> wrote:

> Nevertheless, how do you explain that the following :
> 
>   put 36 into A
>   put 34.2 into B
>   put A-B into C
> 
>   put C*100 into C
>   put trunc(C)
> 
> returns 180 with Rev 2.5 on Mac OS9, but returns 179 on other
> platforms such as Linux or Win2000 ?

I don't know about that, but perhaps the docs should say that coercing the
number back into a string (by adding "") would make the trunc() function
"more right". ;-)

That is, if you had:

  put (C*100) & "" into C  -- coerces to a string
  put trunc(C)

You should always get 180...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From curry at pair.com  Fri Oct  7 20:39:19 2005
From: curry at pair.com (curry at pair.com)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 20:39:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
In-Reply-To: <20051007170004.2246F824F78@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051007170004.2246F824F78@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <1525.69.242.143.211.1128731959.squirrel@webmail1.pair.com>


FWIW:

In MS Excel (v.97, on Windows), "=TRUNC((36-34.2)*100)" gives 180.

:-)

Curry Kenworthy

Curry K. Software
http://curryk.com




From mark at maseurope.net  Fri Oct  7 21:27:06 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 02:27:06 +0100
Subject: Playing with strings
In-Reply-To: <35d66ac11d0f6f004b3a0e31465114cd@setec-multimedia.fr>
References: <35d66ac11d0f6f004b3a0e31465114cd@setec-multimedia.fr>
Message-ID: <B4B9FA8C-06D2-4E21-AD79-E38E7004C3EF@maseurope.net>

If you set the HTMLtext of the field to you bit of html, it will  
generally do a pretty good job of displaying only the text, though it  
will be formatted according to the html formatting tags. To get  
around this, you can do

set the HTMLText of fld "myField" to theBitOfHtml
put fld "myField" into fld "myField" -- effectively resets the the  
formatted text to whatever font, size and style the field is set to.

Mark

On 7 Oct 2005, at 21:36, Setec Multimedia wrote:

> Hello everybody,
>
> I'm curenytly trying to perform a small utility wich would extract  
> the text datas of an html file into separated items or lines of a  
> field.
> For example, this html code :
> ?
> <strong><font size="1">example of texte 1 <br>
> <a href="#link"><br>
> example of link</a></font></strong>
> ?
>
> ?would return these result in a defined field :
>
> example of texte 1
> example of link
>
> The problem is that it seems impossible to extract something  
> beetween two items (simply beetween the ">" and "<" tags) in a  
> simple way.
>
> Do you see any good way to do this ?
>
> Thanks for you help,
>
> Cordialy
>
> Aur?lien Durand
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct  7 21:41:54 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 18:41:54 -0700
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
In-Reply-To: <4346BB17.8020709@tweedly.net>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744643@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<4346BB17.8020709@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <434723E2.5080401@fourthworld.com>

Alex Tweedly wrote:
> Lynch, Jonathan wrote:
> 
>> But still...
>>
>> Answer trunc((36-34.2)*100) should return 180, not 179.
> 
> No it shouldn't.
> 
>> I mean, the
>> underlying code should work to return an accurate value.
> 
> It does.
> 
>> Perhaps it is just a matter of opinion, but to me, if the software 
>> returns a wrong value in a calculation, it is a bug.
>>
> It's not a matter of opinion, and it's not a wrong answer - it's a 
> correct answer. The binary double precision representation of 34.2 is 
> inexact, and hence the binary double precision representation of 36-34.2 
> is similarly inexact - so instead of exactly 180, it's about 1x2**-40 
> less than that.
> And then when you use trunc() it does what you ask.
> 
> It's NOT a Rev bug - it's an artifact of double precision binary 
> arithmetic (or, if you like, an artifact of the IEEE format used by 
> Intel (and everyone else)).

One man's "artifact" is another man's "bug". :)

The original poster never specified that it was a Rev bug, and you've 
shown that the anomaly lies outside of Rev.

Computers are the servants of humans, not the other way around.

In human logic, this:

   trunc((36-34.2)*100)

...is evaluated in three steps:

1. 36-34.2 = 1.8
2. 1.8 * 100 = 180
3. truncate 180 = 180

Math is a human tool devised for the benefit of humans.  Parentheses 
have a specific meaning which breaks down operations into an explicit 
order of operations.

If a computer system is designed in such a way that it no longer serves 
its masters faithfully by honoring things like the explicit order of 
exectution, it's commonly called a "bug", and it's usually up to another 
human to come in an fix it.

Whether the fault lies with Rev or the microprocessor, the anwer of 179 
is logically incorrect.  It may be understandable, but understanding why 
it's giving an incorrect answer doesn't change the answer. :)

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From katir at hindu.org  Fri Oct  7 23:59:08 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 17:59:08 -1000
Subject: OT: Eolas Patent Upheld
Message-ID: <F83C02B8-F833-4864-B77C-FE33068E366D@hindu.org>

Though support for an M$ cause is ??able. Their bid to overturn Eolas  
has been turned down. Could this mean that:

go stack  URL "http://www.example.org/data/mystack.rev" in a new window

will be deemed an illegal call?




From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Sat Oct  8 00:20:15 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:20:15 -0700
Subject: Copy Image
In-Reply-To: <89E0F27C-27AE-4554-8910-1D3D5EDED517@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <BF6C970F.381D3%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>


On 10/7/05 3:32 PM, "Jerry Daniels" <jerry at daniels-mara.com> wrote:

> Todd,
> 
> By all means, send an example along to me. If I can replicate it, I
> can fix it.
> 
> I copy images pretty often but have not had any problems with it, but
> that doesn't mean there isn't a bug in there waiting to be fixed.
> Best,

I haven't been able to completely isolate the issue but I did get a work
around.

My app is processing and saving some Clipboard Contents.  A series of
handlers does the work

GetTheClip  -- got the clipboard

ParseTheClip  -- Parsed some stuff and put the clipboard image in a img on
the current card

SaveTheClip  --  Saved some text and the img to a card on a data stack


"SaveTheClip" worked just fine As did "ParseTheClip". But strung together in
a parent handler they did not.

So I put a wait .05 sec in between them and everything worked.
That is as close as I can get.  If I get any more info I will pass it on.


Thanks

Todd

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 04:57:01 2005
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 16:57:01 +0800
Subject: Speed optimisation
In-Reply-To: <434656B2.9010506@tweedly.net>
References: <BF6B3FE5.13371%dick.kriesel@mail.com>
	<434656B2.9010506@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <f73a98160510080157g7e046556oc99de33c80284b84@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/7/05, Alex Tweedly <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:

So *if* Rob can accept the missing trailing "0" then Kay is the "winner
> apparent" for the QP (pending any other faster method).



Not so fast:-)

Ithink Alex you were spot on when you said:

3. it's easy to get obsessive about speed beyond the point where it matters
> - I do it all the time !!
>

Having been jolted out of 'reduce the speed' mode when my errors were
pointed out it was time to see what other faults were out there. You've
already mentioned lack of trailing zeros. I note also that only your code
Alex includes a leading zero, ie 03:13:45.0, again, that may or may not be
important. As far as my code not correctly showing hours greater than 24 it
was most definitely a case of looking at the speed and not the output. In a
button I put this code to feed the function, just commenting out the
function I didn't want to run - then read the output from the message box.

on mouseUp
put the ticks into tStartTime
repeat 150000 times
put return & addTime("18:26:43.5",random(20000)) after tMyTime -- Wayne
--put return & addDivandFormat("18:26:43.5",random(20000)) after tMyTime
--Alex
--put return & addTimeAndSeconds("18:26:43.5",random(20000)) after tMyTime--
Dick
end repeat
put (the ticks - tStartTime)/60 & tMyTime into msg
end mouseUp

I would have put a random time in but I just couldn't be bothered so I just
made one up. It just happens that in this case there are only three
instances where the result will exceed 23:59:59. The message box obviously
contained the elapsed time at the top followed by 150000 lines of results. I
was too busy checking the time and a couple of pages of results to not
notice that it never came up with an answer like 27:xx:xx.x

I know some comment has gone back and forward between Dick and Alex about
whether my code can handle negative seconds. Whilst I checked Dick's example
and came to the same conclusion that Alex did - that my code doesn't have
problems with negative seconds, the comments did make me realize that there
was a SERIOUS error with my code.

If someone takes the trouble of recording hh:mm:ss.s then there is a good
chance that the seconds they want to add will also contain a decimal. In
this case my code produces an error regardless of whether you add or
subtract.

I know Rob indicated that he was happly only to add time, which is lucky
because this amended code will not work for subtract:

function addTime pTime,pSeconds
set the itemDelimiter to "."
convert item 1 of pTime to seconds
convert (item 1 of pTime + item 1 of pSeconds) to long time
return it & "." & (item 2 of pTime + item 2 of pSeconds)
end addTime

But when I now run this new code it is about 0.1 seconds slower that Alex's
code!!

So not only does it appear that Alex's code is fastest, it works for both
add and subract AND the format is consistent.

I'll now put away my acceptance speech and return the tuxedo;-)


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Sat Oct  8 05:30:25 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 11:30:25 +0200
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
In-Reply-To: <434723E2.5080401@fourthworld.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744643@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<4346BB17.8020709@tweedly.net> <434723E2.5080401@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <E6919FBC-9409-4E0D-9CAC-CACC975A7CFC@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi all,

set the numberformat to "0.00000"
put (36-34.2)*100 into temp
put temp & cr & trunc(temp) & cr & trunc(180)

Result:
180.00000
179.00000
180.00000

Difficult to name this a man's bug ;-)

Le 8 oct. 05 ? 03:41, Richard Gaskin a ?crit :

> Alex Tweedly wrote:
>
>> Lynch, Jonathan wrote:
>>
>>> But still...
>>>
>>> Answer trunc((36-34.2)*100) should return 180, not 179.
>>>
>> No it shouldn't.
>>
>>> I mean, the
>>> underlying code should work to return an accurate value.
>>>
>> It does.
>>
>>> Perhaps it is just a matter of opinion, but to me, if the  
>>> software returns a wrong value in a calculation, it is a bug.
>>>
>>>
>> It's not a matter of opinion, and it's not a wrong answer - it's a  
>> correct answer. The binary double precision representation of 34.2  
>> is inexact, and hence the binary double precision representation  
>> of 36-34.2 is similarly inexact - so instead of exactly 180, it's  
>> about 1x2**-40 less than that.
>> And then when you use trunc() it does what you ask.
>> It's NOT a Rev bug - it's an artifact of double precision binary  
>> arithmetic (or, if you like, an artifact of the IEEE format used  
>> by Intel (and everyone else)).
>>
>
> One man's "artifact" is another man's "bug". :)
>
> The original poster never specified that it was a Rev bug, and  
> you've shown that the anomaly lies outside of Rev.
>
> Computers are the servants of humans, not the other way around.
>
> In human logic, this:
>
>   trunc((36-34.2)*100)
>
> ...is evaluated in three steps:
>
> 1. 36-34.2 = 1.8
> 2. 1.8 * 100 = 180
> 3. truncate 180 = 180
>
> Math is a human tool devised for the benefit of humans.   
> Parentheses have a specific meaning which breaks down operations  
> into an explicit order of operations.
>
> If a computer system is designed in such a way that it no longer  
> serves its masters faithfully by honoring things like the explicit  
> order of exectution, it's commonly called a "bug", and it's usually  
> up to another human to come in an fix it.
>
> Whether the fault lies with Rev or the microprocessor, the anwer of  
> 179 is logically incorrect.  It may be understandable, but  
> understanding why it's giving an incorrect answer doesn't change  
> the answer. :)
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Managing Editor, revJournal

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
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For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

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From rev at armbase.com  Sat Oct  8 08:07:40 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 13:07:40 +0100
Subject: little arrows Increase/decrease a field value
Message-ID: <20051008130740.umyl0do68g48sg0w@webmail.armbase.com>

Hi All

i've searched the docs on the little arrows (in the tools). I wanty to increase
the numeric value of a field using the little arrows at the side

It seems that they are Scrollbars and A search for scrollbars says use something
like this.
on scrollbarLineDec
  Put field ButtonWidth into tBtnWidth
  put (BtnWidth + 1) into BtnWidth
  Put BtnWidth into field ButtonWidth
end scrollbarLineDec

on scrollbarLineInc
    Put field ButtonWidth into tBtnWidth
  put (BtnWidth -1) into BtnWidth
  Put BtnWidth into field ButtonWidth
end scrollbarLineInc

These both fail (when the () are removed the don't work either)

I would have thought that something as simple as this and in the tools would
have a section in the docs?

Heeeelp. :-)

Cheers
Bob



From rev at armbase.com  Sat Oct  8 08:26:04 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 13:26:04 +0100
Subject: little arrows Increase/decrease a field value
In-Reply-To: <20051008130740.umyl0do68g48sg0w@webmail.armbase.com>
References: <20051008130740.umyl0do68g48sg0w@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <20051008132604.vof9qvwp440kgwc8@webmail.armbase.com>

Quoting rev at armbase.com:

Oh yeah. I'm in Homer Simpson mode today.... :-)
Helps if I get the names right. I forgot the t before the name.
Brackets not needed. Both work

on scrollbarLineDec
  Put field ButtonWidth into tBtnWidth
  put tBtnWidth + 1 into BtnWidth
  Put BtnWidth into field ButtonWidth
end scrollbarLineDec

on scrollbarLineInc
    Put field ButtonWidth into tBtnWidth
  put (tBtnWidth -1) into BtnWidth
  Put BtnWidth into field ButtonWidth
end scrollbarLineInc


> Hi All
>
> i've searched the docs on the little arrows (in the tools). I wanty 
> to increase
> the numeric value of a field using the little arrows at the side
>
> It seems that they are Scrollbars and A search for scrollbars says 
> use something
> like this.
> on scrollbarLineDec
>  Put field ButtonWidth into tBtnWidth
>  put (BtnWidth + 1) into BtnWidth
>  Put BtnWidth into field ButtonWidth
> end scrollbarLineDec
>
> on scrollbarLineInc
>    Put field ButtonWidth into tBtnWidth
>  put (BtnWidth -1) into BtnWidth
>  Put BtnWidth into field ButtonWidth
> end scrollbarLineInc
>
> These both fail (when the () are removed the don't work either)
>
> I would have thought that something as simple as this and in the tools would
> have a section in the docs?
>
> Heeeelp. :-)
>
> Cheers
> Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>





From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Oct  8 09:26:28 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 15:26:28 +0200
Subject: little arrows Increase/decrease a field value
In-Reply-To: <20051008132604.vof9qvwp440kgwc8@webmail.armbase.com>
References: <20051008130740.umyl0do68g48sg0w@webmail.armbase.com>
	<20051008132604.vof9qvwp440kgwc8@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <B4794C25-8DDC-4F4F-83A7-B94BFDD79F36@major-k.de>

Hi Bob,

> Quoting rev at armbase.com:
>
> Oh yeah. I'm in Homer Simpson mode today.... :-)
> Helps if I get the names right. I forgot the t before the name.
> Brackets not needed. Both work
>
> on scrollbarLineDec
>  Put field ButtonWidth into tBtnWidth
>  put tBtnWidth + 1 into BtnWidth
>  Put BtnWidth into field ButtonWidth
> end scrollbarLineDec
>
> on scrollbarLineInc
>    Put field ButtonWidth into tBtnWidth
>  put (tBtnWidth -1) into BtnWidth
>  Put BtnWidth into field ButtonWidth
> end scrollbarLineInc

save some typing with:

on scrollbarLineDec
    add 1 to field ButtonWidth
end scrollbarLineDec

on scrollbarLineInc
  subtract 1 from field ButtonWidth
end scrollbarLineInc

:-)



Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Sat Oct  8 10:25:26 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 16:25:26 +0200
Subject: little arrows Increase/decrease a field value
In-Reply-To: <20051008130740.umyl0do68g48sg0w@webmail.armbase.com>
References: <20051008130740.umyl0do68g48sg0w@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <CCEC3813-0A53-4AED-B4C3-6FC379BF4462@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Bob,

Little arrows in Rev do not work as expected.
For instance, the thumb position that should be passed as a parameter  
with the scrollbarLineInc and scrollbarLineDec messages are not passed.
But the messages themselves are sent by the engine.
So you can write:

on scrollbarLineInc
   if fld "ButtonWidth" = 0 then exit scrollbarLineInc
   -- lower limit
   subtract 1 from fld "ButtonWidth"
end scrollbarLineInc
----------------------------
on scrollbarLineDec
   if fld "ButtonWidth" = 100 then exit scrollbarLineDec
   -- higher limit
   add 1 to fld "ButtonWidth"
end scrollbarLineDec

In addition, note that the messages are inverted: up arrow triggers  
the scrollbarLineDec(rease) message and the down one the  
scrollbarLineInc(rease) message :-)

Hope this helps.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 8 oct. 05 ? 14:07, rev at armbase.com a ?crit :

> Hi All
>
> i've searched the docs on the little arrows (in the tools). I wanty  
> to increase
> the numeric value of a field using the little arrows at the side
>
> It seems that they are Scrollbars and A search for scrollbars says  
> use something
> like this.
> on scrollbarLineDec
>   Put field ButtonWidth into tBtnWidth
>   put (BtnWidth + 1) into BtnWidth
>   Put BtnWidth into field ButtonWidth
> end scrollbarLineDec
>
> on scrollbarLineInc
>     Put field ButtonWidth into tBtnWidth
>   put (BtnWidth -1) into BtnWidth
>   Put BtnWidth into field ButtonWidth
> end scrollbarLineInc
>
> These both fail (when the () are removed the don't work either)
>
> I would have thought that something as simple as this and in the  
> tools would
> have a section in the docs?
>
> Heeeelp. :-)
>
> Cheers
> Bob

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From kaveh at river-valley.com  Sat Oct  8 10:36:18 2005
From: kaveh at river-valley.com (Kaveh Bazargan)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 15:36:18 +0100
Subject: Need documentation on Geometry inspector
In-Reply-To: <B4794C25-8DDC-4F4F-83A7-B94BFDD79F36@major-k.de>
References: <20051008130740.umyl0do68g48sg0w@webmail.armbase.com>
	<20051008132604.vof9qvwp440kgwc8@webmail.armbase.com>
	<B4794C25-8DDC-4F4F-83A7-B94BFDD79F36@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <p0623092cbf6d8990181b@[192.168.0.4]>

I can't get my head around the geometry inspector window. Is there a
tutorial or documentation somewhere?
-- 

Kaveh Bazargan
http://www.river-valley.com/
http://www.holographer.org/


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Oct  8 11:52:04 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 10:52:04 -0500
Subject: little arrows Increase/decrease a field value
In-Reply-To: <CCEC3813-0A53-4AED-B4C3-6FC379BF4462@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <BF6D5554.2D4F7%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/8/05 9:25 AM, "Eric Chatonet" <eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com>
wrote:

> In addition, note that the messages are inverted: up arrow triggers
> the scrollbarLineDec(rease) message and the down one the
> scrollbarLineInc(rease) message :-)

Just a quick note for those of you wondering why this is "backwards"...
actually if you think about a field with a bunch of text in it and a taller
scrollbar control to its right controlling the scroll of the field (yes, I
know you can just set the vScrollbar of the field to true, but bear with
me), it makes sense the clicking the down arrow will increase the amount of
scroll of the field, and the up arrow will decrease. It only seems to be
strange when used as an up/down arrow control.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  8 12:03:10 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 09:03:10 -0700
Subject: Copy Image
In-Reply-To: <BF6C970F.381D3%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <BF6D3BCE.2ECF0%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

I have found that clipboard operations, including the clipboarddata in Rev
require a hesitation of 0.5 to 1 sec to allow the operating system to deal
with the 'shared/transportable' nature of clipboard data.  Microsoft has
extensive clipboard definitions (Excel charts, bit maps, rtf, etc) which
adds to user flexibility, for example, but they don't easily translate to
other programs.  The same works for Photoshop, if that is what you are using
to work with you images.

Rev can work so quickly and most likely too quickly for the operating
system.  The slower the computer, the longer the wait.

This has been my experience working with AppleScript and not images, but it
probably applies there as well.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas 


On 10/7/05 9:20 PM, "Todd Geist" <tg.lists at geistinteractive.com> wrote:

> 
> On 10/7/05 3:32 PM, "Jerry Daniels" <jerry at daniels-mara.com> wrote:
> 
>> Todd,
>> 
>> By all means, send an example along to me. If I can replicate it, I
>> can fix it.
>> 
>> I copy images pretty often but have not had any problems with it, but
>> that doesn't mean there isn't a bug in there waiting to be fixed.
>> Best,
> 
> I haven't been able to completely isolate the issue but I did get a work
> around.
> 
> My app is processing and saving some Clipboard Contents.  A series of
> handlers does the work
> 
> GetTheClip  -- got the clipboard
> 
> ParseTheClip  -- Parsed some stuff and put the clipboard image in a img on
> the current card
> 
> SaveTheClip  --  Saved some text and the img to a card on a data stack
> 
> 
> "SaveTheClip" worked just fine As did "ParseTheClip". But strung together in
> a parent handler they did not.
> 
> So I put a wait .05 sec in between them and everything worked.
> That is as close as I can get.  If I get any more info I will pass it on.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Todd




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Oct  8 12:23:40 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 09:23:40 -0700
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
In-Reply-To: <4346BB17.8020709@tweedly.net>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744643@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<4346BB17.8020709@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <911962652.20051008092340@ahsoftware.net>

Alex-

Friday, October 7, 2005, 11:14:47 AM, you wrote:

> It's NOT a Rev bug - it's an artifact of double precision binary
> arithmetic (or, if you like, an artifact of the IEEE format used by 
> Intel (and everyone else)).

I'm sure if I coded the same thing in java I would also come up with
179. It's an artifact of trying to force an analog world into a
digital frame and back again. You can see the same sort of thing at
work if you look into "random" numbers.

However, 36-34.2 = 179 is just WRONG.

While it's easy to rationalize the error by examining the inaccuracies
due to the constraints forced by the math libraries, the real-world
consequences become more apparent when the discrepancy is a larger
percentage of the result.

Try this:

on mouseUp
  local t1
  
  put 36 - 34.2 into t1
  add .2 to t1
  
  put t1 && "+" && t1 && "=" && trunc(t1+t1)
end mouseUp

I'd be happiest if the trunc() function internally appended a trailing
"" before performing its task, and I think it's worth a BZ enhancement
request entry - jbv, want to do the honors?

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Oct  8 12:31:30 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 09:31:30 -0700
Subject: little arrows Increase/decrease a field value
In-Reply-To: <20051008130740.umyl0do68g48sg0w@webmail.armbase.com>
References: <20051008130740.umyl0do68g48sg0w@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <152432007.20051008093130@ahsoftware.net>

Bob-

Saturday, October 8, 2005, 5:07:40 AM, you wrote:

> It seems that they are Scrollbars and A search for scrollbars says use something
> like this.
> on scrollbarLineDec
>   Put field ButtonWidth into tBtnWidth
>   put (BtnWidth + 1) into BtnWidth
>   Put BtnWidth into field ButtonWidth
> end scrollbarLineDec

> on scrollbarLineInc
>     Put field ButtonWidth into tBtnWidth
>   put (BtnWidth -1) into BtnWidth
>   Put BtnWidth into field ButtonWidth
> end scrollbarLineInc

Not sure what you expected to happen here, but did you mean tBtnWidth
for those variables? If you change them, then the value in the field
goes up and down.

Try enabling "Variable Checking" in the Script menu, or better yet,
change the Script Editor preferences to enable "Variable checking by
default". That's what it's for.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From rev at armbase.com  Sat Oct  8 13:43:00 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 18:43:00 +0100
Subject: little arrows Increase/decrease a field value
In-Reply-To: <BF6D5554.2D4F7%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF6D5554.2D4F7%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <20051008184300.a1yyvulc004coscg@webmail.armbase.com>

Quoting Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com>:

> On 10/8/05 9:25 AM, "Eric Chatonet" <eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com>
> wrote:
>
>> In addition, note that the messages are inverted: up arrow triggers
>> the scrollbarLineDec(rease) message and the down one the
>> scrollbarLineInc(rease) message :-)
>
> Just a quick note for those of you wondering why this is "backwards"...
> actually if you think about a field with a bunch of text in it and a taller
> scrollbar control to its right controlling the scroll of the field (yes, I
> know you can just set the vScrollbar of the field to true, but bear with
> me), it makes sense the clicking the down arrow will increase the amount of
> scroll of the field, and the up arrow will decrease. It only seems to be
> strange when used as an up/down arrow control.

Hi Eric and Ken

I have it fixed now, however, using little arrows; the up arrow makes it go up
and the bottom arrow makes it go down. IE as it should. THe Inc refers to the
up arrow and the dec refers to the down arrow. This seems to be the 
opposite of
what you suggest. Have I understood you correctly?

Either way I haev it working.

Thanks for the insight, I find these wee snippets VERY educational. :-)

I haev another problem, however, I'll try and work it out. :-)

Cheers
Bob; Sunny Scotland

PS: Scotland beaten by Belarus.....boooo hooooo :-(


>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>





From rev at armbase.com  Sat Oct  8 13:44:28 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 18:44:28 +0100
Subject: little arrows Increase/decrease a field value
In-Reply-To: <152432007.20051008093130@ahsoftware.net>
References: <20051008130740.umyl0do68g48sg0w@webmail.armbase.com>
	<152432007.20051008093130@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <20051008184428.nuhvsnuddwgsggcs@webmail.armbase.com>

Quoting Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net>:

> Bob-
>
> Saturday, October 8, 2005, 5:07:40 AM, you wrote:
>
>> It seems that they are Scrollbars and A search for scrollbars says 
>> use something
>> like this.
>> on scrollbarLineDec
>>   Put field ButtonWidth into tBtnWidth
>>   put (BtnWidth + 1) into BtnWidth
>>   Put BtnWidth into field ButtonWidth
>> end scrollbarLineDec
>
>> on scrollbarLineInc
>>     Put field ButtonWidth into tBtnWidth
>>   put (BtnWidth -1) into BtnWidth
>>   Put BtnWidth into field ButtonWidth
>> end scrollbarLineInc
>
> Not sure what you expected to happen here, but did you mean tBtnWidth
> for those variables? If you change them, then the value in the field
> goes up and down.
>
> Try enabling "Variable Checking" in the Script menu, or better yet,
> change the Script Editor preferences to enable "Variable checking by
> default". That's what it's for.

Hi Mark

Yep I noticed it. Thanks for the info on the editor preferences.

Cheers
Bob
>
> --
> -Mark Wieder
> mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>





From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Sat Oct  8 17:43:42 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 14:43:42 -0700
Subject: Copy Image
In-Reply-To: <BF6D3BCE.2ECF0%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BF6D8B9E.3829B%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Ok well that is probably what is going on here.

I am sorry I pointed a finger at Constellation.  I absolutely love it. It is
a joy to work with.

Sorry Jerry


On 10/8/05 9:03 AM, "Jim Ault" <JimAultWins at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I have found that clipboard operations, including the clipboarddata in Rev
> require a hesitation of 0.5 to 1 sec to allow the operating system to deal
> with the 'shared/transportable' nature of clipboard data.  Microsoft has
> extensive clipboard definitions (Excel charts, bit maps, rtf, etc) which
> adds to user flexibility, for example, but they don't easily translate to
> other programs.  The same works for Photoshop, if that is what you are using
> to work with you images.

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From nicolas_cueto at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  8 18:35:35 2005
From: nicolas_cueto at yahoo.com (Nicolas Cueto)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 07:35:35 +0900
Subject: c
Message-ID: <002701c5cc58$9a1a4b50$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb>

Hello List,

Is there a Rev command that returns the names
of all computers running on a LAN? (On Win2K,
I'd click on "My network" to find this out.)

Thank you.

--
Nicolas Cueto
niconiko language school


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 19:36:28 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 09:36:28 +1000
Subject: Need documentation on Geometry inspector
In-Reply-To: <p0623092cbf6d8990181b@192.168.0.4>
References: <20051008130740.umyl0do68g48sg0w@webmail.armbase.com>
	<20051008132604.vof9qvwp440kgwc8@webmail.armbase.com>
	<B4794C25-8DDC-4F4F-83A7-B94BFDD79F36@major-k.de>
	<p0623092cbf6d8990181b@192.168.0.4>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510081636i268b530egb7b767d59698da20@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/9/05, Kaveh Bazargan <kaveh at river-valley.com> wrote:
> I can't get my head around the geometry inspector window. Is there a
> tutorial or documentation somewhere?
> --
>

Chipp Walters has produced a great set of video tutorials, which you can get at:
<http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/VideoTutorials.htm>

Cheers,
Sarah


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 19:38:51 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 09:38:51 +1000
Subject: little arrows Increase/decrease a field value
In-Reply-To: <20051008130740.umyl0do68g48sg0w@webmail.armbase.com>
References: <20051008130740.umyl0do68g48sg0w@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510081638w3da105c1se15261ba64f1fb46@mail.gmail.com>

> i've searched the docs on the little arrows (in the tools). I wanty to increase
> the numeric value of a field using the little arrows at the side
>

I think you have already solved this problem, but have you had a look
in the Object Library?
There are a couple of "Little Arrows" options there which are
pre-scripted groups you can just insert into your stacks. Read the
info to find out what custom properties you need to set for them to
work.

Cheers,
Sarah


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 19:40:59 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 09:40:59 +1000
Subject: HELP!! - Geometry Gone Berserk, How to fix?
In-Reply-To: <a05210601bf6ab5ba8d1c@192.168.0.100>
References: <BF6A24E6.2D17A%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<a05210601bf6ab5ba8d1c@192.168.0.100>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510081640s20a175b9o7cd7296d1f90e810@mail.gmail.com>

> HELP! I have a Stack and the geometry has gone berserk. I have a
> "breakpoint" inserted in a preOpenStack handler that allows me to
> quit the startup path. If I let it continue the Stack displays and
> the geometry has scaled/moved objects as if the Stack window were
> MUCH bigger. If I Abort in the debugger, the stack displays ok.
>
> However, if I type:
>
> revUpdateGeometry (which would have been called on the preOpenStackk
> path anyway)
>
> The geometry goes beswick!
>
> How it fix? Is there anyway of resetting the geometry of the Stack?
>
> HELP!
>

Try Altuit's altCleanStack which gets rid of a lot of Rev's internal
properties and optionally, the geometry settings.
You can get all the altPlugins from here:
<http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginCover/about.htm>

Sarah


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Oct  8 21:15:42 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 03:15:42 +0200
Subject: HELP!! - Geometry Gone Berserk, How to fix?
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860510081640s20a175b9o7cd7296d1f90e810@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051009004715.AE802824DB1@mail.runrev.com>

sorry Sarah but that's little help... the problem
always comes back... I know cause I tried for months!

(see my next post) 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Sarah Reichelt
> Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 1:41 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: HELP!! - Geometry Gone Berserk, How to fix?
> 
> > HELP! I have a Stack and the geometry has gone berserk. I have a 
> > "breakpoint" inserted in a preOpenStack handler that allows 
> me to quit 
> > the startup path. If I let it continue the Stack displays and the 
> > geometry has scaled/moved objects as if the Stack window were MUCH 
> > bigger. If I Abort in the debugger, the stack displays ok.
> >
> > However, if I type:
> >
> > revUpdateGeometry (which would have been called on the 
> preOpenStackk 
> > path anyway)
> >
> > The geometry goes beswick!
> >
> > How it fix? Is there anyway of resetting the geometry of the Stack?
> >
> > HELP!
> >
> 
> Try Altuit's altCleanStack which gets rid of a lot of Rev's 
> internal properties and optionally, the geometry settings.
> You can get all the altPlugins from here:
> <http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginCover/about.htm>
> 
> Sarah
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Oct  8 21:16:19 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 20:16:19 -0500
Subject: little arrows Increase/decrease a field value
In-Reply-To: <20051008184300.a1yyvulc004coscg@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <BF6DD993.2D525%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/8/05 12:43 PM, "rev at armbase.com" <rev at armbase.com> wrote:

>> Just a quick note for those of you wondering why this is "backwards"...
>> actually if you think about a field with a bunch of text in it and a taller
>> scrollbar control to its right controlling the scroll of the field (yes, I
>> know you can just set the vScrollbar of the field to true, but bear with
>> me), it makes sense the clicking the down arrow will increase the amount of
>> scroll of the field, and the up arrow will decrease. It only seems to be
>> strange when used as an up/down arrow control.
> 
> Hi Eric and Ken
> 
> I have it fixed now, however, using little arrows; the up arrow makes it go up
> and the bottom arrow makes it go down. IE as it should. THe Inc refers to the
> up arrow and the dec refers to the down arrow. This seems to be the
> opposite of
> what you suggest. Have I understood you correctly?

Hmm.. that's odd, since I just created a scrollbar control with the
following code:

on scrollbarLineInc
  put "INC"
end scrollbarLineInc

on scrollbarLineDec
  put "DEC"
end scrollbarLineDec

And when I click in the down arrow of the scrollber it puts "INC" and when I
click the up arrow of the scrollbar  it puts "DEC".

Can you test this on your end?

Glad you have it working, BTW.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From alex at tweedly.net  Sat Oct  8 21:18:24 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 02:18:24 +0100
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
In-Reply-To: <434723E2.5080401@fourthworld.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744643@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>	<4346BB17.8020709@tweedly.net>
	<434723E2.5080401@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <43486FE0.1050709@tweedly.net>

Richard Gaskin wrote:

>
> One man's "artifact" is another man's "bug". :)
>
> The original poster never specified that it was a Rev bug, 

The *original* poster (jbv) didn't, but Jonathan (to whom I was 
replying) did. At least, he said that Rev did this, and he said (in an 
earlier email) that it was a software bug - so I claim that adds up to 
saying it was a Rev bug.

> and you've shown that the anomaly lies outside of Rev.
>
> Computers are the servants of humans, not the other way around.

You wish !!

>
> If a computer system is designed in such a way that it no longer 
> serves its masters faithfully by honoring things like the explicit 
> order of exectution, it's commonly called a "bug", and it's usually up 
> to another human to come in an fix it.
>
> Whether the fault lies with Rev or the microprocessor, the anwer of 
> 179 is logically incorrect.  It may be understandable, but 
> understanding why it's giving an incorrect answer doesn't change the 
> answer. :)
>
You might get Rev to introduce a workaround (e.g. by changing the 
effective meaning of trunc() to be "round at some ;eve; of precision 
that will do what I *want*, and then truncate", as Mark suggested) - but 
I fear that only leads to someone, some day in the future open a BZ to 
say that Rev gets a different answer to the same calculation than 95% of 
the installed base of  languages).

Bring BCD , that's what I say .... :-)

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/123 - Release Date: 06/10/2005



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Oct  8 22:47:16 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 19:47:16 -0700
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
In-Reply-To: <43486FE0.1050709@tweedly.net>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744643@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>	<4346BB17.8020709@tweedly.net>	<434723E2.5080401@fourthworld.com>
	<43486FE0.1050709@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <434884B4.9000406@fourthworld.com>

Alex Tweedly wrote:
> Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> Computers are the servants of humans, not the other way around.
> 
> You wish !!

I know you well enough to know you're just having fun there, but because 
this anomaly has been accepted as "normal" in microprocessor design I 
hope the readers here will indulge this brief philosophical rant on its 
implications for the survival of mankind:

James Gosling and others believe that the biggest long-term threat to 
the survival of our species isn't meteors, or terrorists, or SARS, or 
even Halliburton, but something much smaller:  nanobots.

I wonder what happens if we start accepting such blatant logical errors 
for simple arithmetic, and then build ever more complex systems on top 
of that, and then build complex AI systems on top of those, and then put 
that known-to-be-faulty AI into nanobots.

I believe the difference between accepting "179" from a computer when we 
all know the answer is "180" and accidentally enabling a robot to 
violate Asimov's Three Laws is one of degrees, not absolutes.

The time for microprocessor manufactures to get serious about the little 
things is today, if not yesterday.

The alternative is as world of deeply layered complex systems built on 
known inconsistencies, where the smallest things may become our biggest 
problem.


> You might get Rev to introduce a workaround (e.g. by changing the 
> effective meaning of trunc() to be "round at some ;eve; of precision 
> that will do what I *want*, and then truncate", as Mark suggested) - but 
> I fear that only leads to someone, some day in the future open a BZ to 
> say that Rev gets a different answer to the same calculation than 95% of 
> the installed base of  languages).

Maybe not.  We know, for example, that Excel already accounts for this 
in its own code, correcting for the critical failure of the 
microprocessor designers.  Anyone have time to check if RB, VB, and 
others do too?

I just checked HyperCard and it allows the wrong answer (one more reason 
we can be glad it died with dignity while it could).

Way back when there was a question about date calculations, and we found 
a similar problem with the Win OS, and a similar message from RunRev 
about how it's an OS limitation.  But on further investigation we 
discovered that RB, VB, VBA, and many others had long been correcting 
for that OS limitation on their own languages.

If we find that other high-level systems follow Excel's lead on this 
one, perhaps there's an even stronger argument to asking Rev to account 
for this processor failure (that is, in addition to the answer being wrong).

> Bring BCD , that's what I say .... :-)

"BCD"?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From frank at backtalk.com  Sun Oct  9 00:18:10 2005
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 21:18:10 -0700
Subject: Shell script to get shortcut's target on Win32?
Message-ID: <711c9cb0d4c24175389f87176112a243@backtalk.com>

Hi,

Does anyone know how to write a shell script to get the target of a 
shortcut on Windows?

I'm using the aliasReference command, but it returns an unusable file 
name.  For example,

       the aliasReference of "C:\Documents and Settings/frank/My 
Documents/My Pictures/1-originals/IMG_4668 copy 1.JPG.lnk"

returns

       "C:\DOCUME~1/frank/Desktop/Morrone/IMG_46~1.JPG"

which is quite unusable for my purposes.

Many thanks in advance,
-- Frank

p.s. Please copy me on any reply as I get the digest version which can 
take a day or so to appear



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Sun Oct  9 00:34:59 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 14:34:59 +1000
Subject: Shell script to get shortcut's target on Win32?
In-Reply-To: <711c9cb0d4c24175389f87176112a243@backtalk.com>
References: <711c9cb0d4c24175389f87176112a243@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510082134g15d76e50sdc15dab97961a2d8@mail.gmail.com>

> Does anyone know how to write a shell script to get the target of a
> shortcut on Windows?
>
> I'm using the aliasReference command, but it returns an unusable file
> name.  For example,
>
>        the aliasReference of "C:\Documents and Settings/frank/My
> Documents/My Pictures/1-originals/IMG_4668 copy 1.JPG.lnk"
>
> returns
>
>        "C:\DOCUME~1/frank/Desktop/Morrone/IMG_46~1.JPG"
>
> which is quite unusable for my purposes.

I can't try this at the moment Frank, but does the shortFilePath
function help at all?

Sarah


From frank at backtalk.com  Sun Oct  9 00:35:41 2005
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 21:35:41 -0700
Subject: Shell script to get shortcut's target on Win32? [SOLUTION]
Message-ID: <1a70be3a32277a7e04d48ff02da5f6a3@backtalk.com>

Of course I found the solution as soon as I sent that message -- the 
Rev command "the longFilePath".

Of course why aliasReference returns a 8.3 file name is another story...

Regards,
-- Frank



From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Sun Oct  9 02:36:48 2005
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ludovic_Th=E9bault?=)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 08:36:48 +0200
Subject: Launch several files in a app ?
Message-ID: <20051009083648.699081.9d19c43d@laposte.net>

Hello,

It's possible to open an app with a document (launch mytext.txt with 
myApp), but how launch an app with several documents in one time ?

In fact, i want to import several pictures with iPhoto.

Any Ideas ?

Thanks.

Ludovic


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Oct  9 02:44:52 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 01:44:52 -0500
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
In-Reply-To: <434884B4.9000406@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BF6E2694.2D551%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/8/05 9:47 PM, "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

>> You might get Rev to introduce a workaround (e.g. by changing the
>> effective meaning of trunc() to be "round at some ;eve; of precision
>> that will do what I *want*, and then truncate", as Mark suggested) - but
>> I fear that only leads to someone, some day in the future open a BZ to
>> say that Rev gets a different answer to the same calculation than 95% of
>> the installed base of  languages).
> 
> Maybe not.  We know, for example, that Excel already accounts for this
> in its own code, correcting for the critical failure of the
> microprocessor designers.  Anyone have time to check if RB, VB, and
> others do too?

Yes, here's the results of all the environments I could find on my
computers:

Revolution 2.6
    put ((36 - 34.2) * 100)                         >> 180
    put trunc(( 36 - 34.2) * 100)                 >> 179
    
SuperCard 4.1.2
    put ((36 - 34.2) * 100)                         >> 180
    put trunc(( 36 - 34.2) * 100)                 >> 179

HyperCard 2.4.1
    put ((36 - 34.2) * 100)                         >> 180
    put trunc(( 36 - 34.2) * 100)                 >> 179

Flash     MX 6.0
    trace((36-34.2) * 100)                          >> 180
    trace(int((36-34.2) * 100))                    >> 179
    
Director MX 9.0
    alert(string((36-34.2) * 100))                >> 180.0000
    alert(string(integer((36-34.2) * 100)))    >> 180
    
REALBasic 2005 R3
    Msgbox(CStr((36-34.2) * 100))                >> 180
    Dim tVal as Integer
      tVal = ((36-34.2) * 100)
      Msgbox(CStr(tVal))                                >> 179
    
Visual Basic 6.0
    MsgBox(CStr((36-34.2) * 100))               >> 180
    MsgBox(CStr(Int((36-34.2) * 100)))        >> 179

AppleScript 1.9.3
    get ((36-34.2) * 100)                            >> 180.0
    set tVal to ((36-34.2) * 100) as integer   >> 180

Excel 2004 Mac
    =(36-34.2) * 100                                    >> 180
    =TRUNC((36-34.2) * 100)                        >> 180

So it seems like Excel, AppleScript and Director keep it at 180, but all the
rest convert it to 179.

> If we find that other high-level systems follow Excel's lead on this
> one, perhaps there's an even stronger argument to asking Rev to account
> for this processor failure (that is, in addition to the answer being wrong).

I'm still trying to figure out how something as simple as ((36-34.2)*100)
can be anything but 180, or how (as Alex put it) "the binary double
precision representation of 34.2 is inexact"... and if it *is*, isn't there
any other form that could represent 34.2 exactly that's not binary double
precision? 

But that's me...

;-)


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From mcdomi at free.fr  Sun Oct  9 03:26:44 2005
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 09:26:44 +0200
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
In-Reply-To: <434884B4.9000406@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1h45rg6.s6a7dc1yfrzeoM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

> > Bring BCD , that's what I say .... :-)
> 
> "BCD"?

Binary Coded Decimal?

In the ancient times ;-)
there were TWO versions of Microsoft Basic, one of them was a BCD
version for accounting!

Not for saying that this problem is a long time one ;-))

-- 
Revolutionario



From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Sun Oct  9 04:19:30 2005
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 10:19:30 +0200
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
References: <BF6E2694.2D551%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <4348D292.1A9FD31C@Club-Internet.fr>

other environment tested : javascript

IE 5.01 Mac OS9
    (36 - 34.2) * 100    ->    179.9999999999997
    Math.floor((36 - 34.2) * 100)    ->    179

IE 6 Win XP
    (36 - 34.2) * 100    ->    179.99999999999971
    Math.floor((36 - 34.2) * 100)    ->    179

Firefox 1.0 Win XP
    (36 - 34.2) * 100    ->    179.99999999999972
    Math.floor((36 - 34.2) * 100)    ->    179

JB


>
> Yes, here's the results of all the environments I could find on my
> computers:
>



From kaveh at river-valley.com  Sun Oct  9 04:50:16 2005
From: kaveh at river-valley.com (Kaveh Bazargan)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 09:50:16 +0100
Subject: Need documentation on Geometry inspector
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860510081636i268b530egb7b767d59698da20@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20051008130740.umyl0do68g48sg0w@webmail.armbase.com>
	<20051008132604.vof9qvwp440kgwc8@webmail.armbase.com>
	<B4794C25-8DDC-4F4F-83A7-B94BFDD79F36@major-k.de>
	<p0623092cbf6d8990181b@192.168.0.4>
	<f99b52860510081636i268b530egb7b767d59698da20@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06230931bf6e89fc253e@[192.168.0.4]>

At 09:36 +1000 9/10/05, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

[...]

>Chipp Walters has produced a great set of video tutorials, which you can
>get at:
><http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/VideoTutorials.htm>

Absolutely what I wanted. Thanks. :-)

As an aside, the sound keeps cutting out on my Mac, but might be my system.
-- 

Kaveh Bazargan
http://www.river-valley.com/
http://www.holographer.org/


From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Oct  9 04:59:39 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 03:59:39 -0500
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
In-Reply-To: <434884B4.9000406@fourthworld.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744643@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>	<4346BB17.8020709@tweedly.net>	<434723E2.5080401@fourthworld.com>	<43486FE0.1050709@tweedly.net>
	<434884B4.9000406@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <4348DBFB.1060101@chipp.com>

Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I believe the difference between accepting "179" from a computer when we 
> all know the answer is "180" and accidentally enabling a robot to 
> violate Asimov's Three Laws is one of degrees, not absolutes.

Probably explains why my Roomba doesn't 'get the corners' too well.

Hmmm. Now that you mention it, Roomba has been chasing the cat more 
often lately. [damn trunc function!]



From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Oct  9 06:20:25 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 11:20:25 +0100
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
In-Reply-To: <434884B4.9000406@fourthworld.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744643@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>	<4346BB17.8020709@tweedly.net>	<434723E2.5080401@fourthworld.com>	<43486FE0.1050709@tweedly.net>
	<434884B4.9000406@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <4348EEE9.5010107@tweedly.net>

Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Maybe not.  We know, for example, that Excel already accounts for this 
> in its own code, correcting for the critical failure of the 
> microprocessor designers.  Anyone have time to check if RB, VB, and 
> others do too?
>
Python doesn't - though since it's a strongly typed (though dynamically 
typed) language, I wouldn't expect it to- once it decides that a 
variable should be a floating-point, it uses the native type and 
processing for it.

As of Python2.4, the "Decimal" package provides an excellent solution to 
this (and many similar but harder) problems.
See 
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0327.html#the-problem-with-binary-float 
for the discussion explaining the problems, alternative solutions 
considered and the rationale for the version chosen.

> I just checked HyperCard and it allows the wrong answer (one more 
> reason we can be glad it died with dignity while it could).
>
> Way back when there was a question about date calculations, and we 
> found a similar problem with the Win OS, and a similar message from 
> RunRev about how it's an OS limitation.  But on further investigation 
> we discovered that RB, VB, VBA, and many others had long been 
> correcting for that OS limitation on their own languages.
>
> If we find that other high-level systems follow Excel's lead on this 
> one, perhaps there's an even stronger argument to asking Rev to 
> account for this processor failure (that is, in addition to the answer 
> being wrong).
>
>> Bring BCD , that's what I say .... :-)
>
>
> "BCD"?
>
Binary Coded Decimal.   (I'm showing my age :-)


-- Alex.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/123 - Release Date: 06/10/2005



From 36degrees at runrev.com  Sun Oct  9 07:58:45 2005
From: 36degrees at runrev.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 12:58:45 +0100
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
In-Reply-To: <43465919.4E9207D7@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <43465919.4E9207D7@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <1128859125.17795.82.camel@rachmaninov>

Hi JB,

The solution to the issue you have here is to always add a small
'epsilon' value to your numbers before truncating.

What is manifesting itself here is the innate approximation methods used
by floating-point arithmetic, combined with the fact the trunc function
does not shield you from these (indeed, trunc is there so you can use it
as a basis for your own rounding methods and shouldn't really be used
raw).

Any floating-point number should not be considered a single number at
all, but a *range* of numbers (alternatively, you can view it as a
single number +/- an error). So:
  34.2 is actually: 34.2 - <epsilon> to 34.2 + <epsilon>
  36 is actually: 36 - <epsilon> to 36 + <epsilon>

Therefore, when you get to (36 - 34.2) * 100, what you actually have is
the range:
  180 - epsilon to 180 + epsilon

The actual representative stored in the computer can be any number
within this range, and it just turns out in the case in question, the
representative is:
  179.99999999999971578291

All the trunc function does is chop off the fractional part, leaving
179.

Therefore, in order to get the 'expected' answer, you need to ensure
that you correct for maximum deviation *below* an integer that can occur
before truncating. i.e. You need to add an epsilon value.

As a general rule of thumb, if you require n decimal places of
precision, you should use an epsilon value of 1e-(n+1).

So, let's say that your calculations need no more precision than 7
decimal places, then
  epsilon = 0.00000001

And your code becomes:
  trunc((36 - 34.2) * 100 + 1e-8)
Which does, indeed, return 180.

I should point out that this is probably the only instance where you
would get bitten by this precisely because the trunc function does
nothing to correct for error in the floating-point approximation as it
does not know the precision with which the number you passed to it was
calculated.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

On Fri, 2005-10-07 at 13:16 +0200, jbv wrote:
> Hi list,
> 
> example 1 :
> 
>   put 1.8 into myA
>   put trunc(myA * 100) into myA
> 
>   in that case, myA=180    which is OK
> ------------------
> 
> example 2 :
> 
>   put 34.2 into myA
>   put 36 into myT
> 
>   if myA > 0 then
>     if myA < myT then
>       get myA
>       put myT - myA into myA
>       put it into myT
>     else
>       put 0 into myA
>     end if
>   end if
> 
>   put trunc(myA * 100) into myA
> 
>   in that case, myA=179    ?????????????????????
> 
> 
> Best,
> JB
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mark Waddingham ~ 36degrees at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com
       Runtime Revolution ~ User-Centric Development Tools



From 36degrees at runrev.com  Sun Oct  9 08:06:38 2005
From: 36degrees at runrev.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 13:06:38 +0100
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
In-Reply-To: <4346CCDA.186BFCD6@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744643@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<4346BB17.8020709@tweedly.net>  <4346CCDA.186BFCD6@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <1128859598.17795.89.camel@rachmaninov>

I strongly agree that 'trunc' should come with a warning in the
documentation as to its nature. Indeed, the corresponding function in
perl (int) is documented quite clearly:

"You should not use this function for rounding: one because it truncates
towards 0, and two because machine representations of floating point
numbers can sometimes produce counterintuitive results.  For example,
"int(-6.725/0.025)" produces -268 rather than the correct -269; that?s
because it?s really more like -268.99999999999994315658 instead."

Any cross-platform differences with 'trunc' will be down to the
different implementations of:
  - the floating point instructions on the underlying processors
  - the implementation of the fp glue code that applications use
  - the default rounding modes utilised by the various OSes
(All three together actually define the 'machine representation' that
applications have to work with)

Ultimately, trunc is a raw function. It gives you precisely what you ask
for with no 'fluff'. It is just that what you are actually asking for
and what you think you are asking for in this instance are not the same
thing.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

On Fri, 2005-10-07 at 21:30 +0200, jbv wrote:
> 
> Alex,
> 
> > Users of trunc() (whichever language they use it in :-) should be wary
> > of the dangers.
> >
> 
> Thank you so much for your explanations. As for rev users, I strongly
> suggest that this "potential problem" should be mentioned in the doc,
> at least in the part dedicated to the trunc() function...
> 
> Nevertheless, how do you explain that the following :
> 
>   put 36 into A
>   put 34.2 into B
>   put A-B into C
> 
>   put C*100 into C
>   put trunc(C)
> 
> returns 180 with Rev 2.5 on Mac OS9, but returns 179 on other
> platforms such as Linux or Win2000 ?
> 
> Just curious...
> 
> JB
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mark Waddingham ~ 36degrees at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com
       Runtime Revolution ~ User-Centric Development Tools



From 36degrees at runrev.com  Sun Oct  9 08:41:09 2005
From: 36degrees at runrev.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 13:41:09 +0100
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
In-Reply-To: <1525.69.242.143.211.1128731959.squirrel@webmail1.pair.com>
References: <20051007170004.2246F824F78@mail.runrev.com>
	<1525.69.242.143.211.1128731959.squirrel@webmail1.pair.com>
Message-ID: <1128861669.17795.120.camel@rachmaninov>

Indeed, I believe MS Excel and most financial applications use a Decimal
or BCD representation for arithmetic (or use floating-point in such a
way to ensure the results are equivalent).

Floating-point arithmetic (which Revolution uses) works entirely in base
2. However, while all decimal integers have an accurate representation
in binary, not all decimal fractions do and this is where the
approximation error comes from.

For example:
 1/8 = 0.125 (decimal) and 0.001 (binary)
But
 1/5 = 0.2 (decimal) and 0.0011001100110011... (binary)
Note that the binary representation of 1/5 is a recurring fraction and
as such admits no finite (non-rational) representation.

In a BCD representation you fix the amount of precision you want after
the decimal point, and fix the maximum value you want to represent. e.g.
  DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD.DDDDDD
would probably be sufficient for most financial applications. Then you
actually store a string of decimal digits as the representation of your
number and perform calculations on them as you would in high-school. The
downside is that such numbers have a very fixed range, they take up more
space and are a great deal slower to manipulate.

Alternatively, you can use a Decimal representation. This is where,
again, you choose the maximum precision you require after the decimal
point (i.e. n decimal places) and then normalise all numbers by
multiplying them by 10^n so that the fractional part disappears and you
can just manipulate via integer operations. This will effectively give
you the ability to manipulate numbers as large as you want, but the
bigger the number the greater the amount of storage it provides.

One down-side of both of these representations is anything involving
trigonometric or nth-root calculations become exceedingly slow and/or
unsuitably inaccurate.

You can achieve the same effect as a decimal representation (with a
little care) in Revolution by always storing values at the end-points of
your calculations as a string with a fixed number of decimal places. So,
as suggested elsewhere on this thread:
  - set up the numberFormat property appropriately
  - coerce your number to a string by doing something like
      put tNumber & empty into tStringRepresentation
Or, alternatively, use the 'format' function:
  - put format("%.6f", tNumber) into tStringRepresentation
(here the '6' specifies 6 decimal places, but can be any number you
wish)

One point to make about double precision floating point numbers (which
Revolution utilises internally) is that they have an accuracy of at most
15 *significant* digits - rather than decimal places.

What this means is that 
   0.123456789012345
can be accurately represented but
  12.345678901234501
will be 'rounded' to:
  12.345678901234500

Warmest Regards,

Mark.




From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Sun Oct  9 09:16:26 2005
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 15:16:26 +0200
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
References: <43465919.4E9207D7@Club-Internet.fr>
	<1128859125.17795.82.camel@rachmaninov>
Message-ID: <43491822.6BC9B8F4@Club-Internet.fr>

Mark,

Thanks for your explanations.
I fully understand the reasons why trunc((36-34.2)*100) returns 179.

Nevertheless, I still don't understand why the following :

  get ((36-34.2)*100)
  put it & cr & trunc(it)

returns :
  180
  179

at least javascript is less confusing, since ((36-34.2)*100) returns
179.99999999999971

JB


> Hi JB,
>
> The solution to the issue you have here is to always add a small
> 'epsilon' value to your numbers before truncating.
>
> What is manifesting itself here is the innate approximation methods used
> by floating-point arithmetic, combined with the fact the trunc function
> does not shield you from these (indeed, trunc is there so you can use it
> as a basis for your own rounding methods and shouldn't really be used
> raw).
>
> Any floating-point number should not be considered a single number at
> all, but a *range* of numbers (alternatively, you can view it as a
> single number +/- an error). So:
>   34.2 is actually: 34.2 - <epsilon> to 34.2 + <epsilon>
>   36 is actually: 36 - <epsilon> to 36 + <epsilon>
>
> Therefore, when you get to (36 - 34.2) * 100, what you actually have is
> the range:
>   180 - epsilon to 180 + epsilon
>
> The actual representative stored in the computer can be any number
> within this range, and it just turns out in the case in question, the
> representative is:
>   179.99999999999971578291
>
> All the trunc function does is chop off the fractional part, leaving
> 179.
>
> Therefore, in order to get the 'expected' answer, you need to ensure
> that you correct for maximum deviation *below* an integer that can occur
> before truncating. i.e. You need to add an epsilon value.
>
> As a general rule of thumb, if you require n decimal places of
> precision, you should use an epsilon value of 1e-(n+1).
>
> So, let's say that your calculations need no more precision than 7
> decimal places, then
>   epsilon = 0.00000001
>
> And your code becomes:
>   trunc((36 - 34.2) * 100 + 1e-8)
> Which does, indeed, return 180.
>
> I should point out that this is probably the only instance where you
> would get bitten by this precisely because the trunc function does
> nothing to correct for error in the floating-point approximation as it
> does not know the precision with which the number you passed to it was
> calculated.
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> On Fri, 2005-10-07 at 13:16 +0200, jbv wrote:
> > Hi list,
> >
> > example 1 :
> >
> >   put 1.8 into myA
> >   put trunc(myA * 100) into myA
> >
> >   in that case, myA=180    which is OK
> > ------------------
> >
> > example 2 :
> >
> >   put 34.2 into myA
> >   put 36 into myT
> >
> >   if myA > 0 then
> >     if myA < myT then
> >       get myA
> >       put myT - myA into myA
> >       put it into myT
> >     else
> >       put 0 into myA
> >     end if
> >   end if
> >
> >   put trunc(myA * 100) into myA
> >
> >   in that case, myA=179    ?????????????????????
> >
> >
> > Best,
> > JB
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Mark Waddingham ~ 36degrees at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com
>        Runtime Revolution ~ User-Centric Development Tools
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From 36degrees at runrev.com  Sun Oct  9 09:20:54 2005
From: 36degrees at runrev.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 14:20:54 +0100
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
In-Reply-To: <434723E2.5080401@fourthworld.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744643@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<4346BB17.8020709@tweedly.net>  <434723E2.5080401@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1128864054.17795.154.camel@rachmaninov>

> Computers are the servants of humans, not the other way around.

Computers only do precisely what they are told and, unfortunately, it is
not always possible to instruct them to do things in a single way that
satisfies everyone 100% of the time.

Indeed, in cases where you might have a dozen different uses for a
particular 'slave', you must compromise and ensure that you equip it
with just enough so that it enables itself to be used in all of those
ways. Unfortunately, sometimes this means that its masters need to know
a little more about what they are doing than they would like so that
they can instruct such a 'slave' appropriately.

Of course, over time one learns more about what tasks the 'slave' can be
instructed to do to ease the burden on the masters and so the 'slave'
can be augmented with additional tasks...

> In human logic, this:
> 
>    trunc((36-34.2)*100)
> 
> ...is evaluated in three steps:
> 
> 1. 36-34.2 = 1.8
> 2. 1.8 * 100 = 180
> 3. truncate 180 = 180
> 
> Math is a human tool devised for the benefit of humans.  Parentheses 
> have a specific meaning which breaks down operations into an explicit 
> order of operations.

This has nothing to do with parantheses or the order of evaluation, but
is entirely down to assumptions being made about the nature of the trunc
function - which is certainly due to a lack of explicit documentation
about its nature.

I think what this entire thread comes down to is that Revolution needs a
more intuitive 'integer part' function. I'd be reticent to alter the
semantics of trunc as it stands because:
  1) It has been in the engine for an age
  2) All other programming environments offer a function that does
*exactly* the same thing
  3) It has a deeply ugly name quite fitting of it's raw nature.

The semantics of such a new function would attempt (heuristically) to
account for the error present in floating-point arithmetic and in so
doing would function more inline with human intuition.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mark Waddingham ~ 36degrees at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com
       Runtime Revolution ~ User-Centric Development Tools



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Oct  9 09:30:50 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 15:30:50 +0200
Subject: HELP!! - Geometry Gone Berserk, How to fix?
In-Reply-To: <p0621021abf6bdca8a74f@[66.93.39.98]>
Message-ID: <20051009130214.42661824E99@mail.runrev.com>

Hi David, dear list

as may know or not, Geometry is now one of my longuest lasting tortures in
rev... So here's hopefully some more information about what to do with the
revGM, what not to do, how to do it and more...

Also added are two scripts that can help David OR anyone with any GM issue -
it's the tip of the iceberg in GM management as I have developped it so far
for my needs in ever more intricate sub-gm-dependencies or atomical-modular
groups that just require one line handlers that don't interfere with
anything yet resize smoothly each time (and even permit themes and
variations..). 

It's not easy and nice as rev's GM but so far it has not broken ONCE! One
weird issue though - is that if you try to debug it, rev will crash! Funny
eh? So I wrote my own debugger for it too... All I mean to say is that there
is always a solution!

So here's the tip of the GM iceberg: save and restore a GM - no matter how
many controls. Note: the stack rect/size is not recorded - but easy to add.

But first a tip I remembered...

To prevent the rev GM from working while you resize a stack and it's
controls, it's imperative to put the following statement in you stack script
before resizing all your controls and saving the GM. This prevents
unfortunate resizes too.

-- comment out the resizestack handler if you have one already.
-- the revGM script blocker
on resizestack
end resizestack

When you have resized your controls correctly, comment the blocker handler
and uncomment the real resizestack.

The missing Pass resizestack statement in the blocker resizestack handler
will prevent the revGeometry manager from receiving events and rewrecking
the geometry - thank it's not a frontscript. 

Avoid the the revpropertypalette and do it with your mouse! Some changes are
not detected by the GM and will penalize you again next resizestack happens!

BTW, most of this has been bugzillaed...

It's also possible that RevGM dependent controls might fail using other
align or property changing plugins - Test first... 

Here's the first two GIM scripts that I wrote to save my GUIs from revGM...
It doesn't include the wipe-RevGM-props script which is quite longuer...

-- Save all positions in case of GM screws up
on saveGeometry
  local clist, cid, crect
  put the rect of this stack & CR into clist
  repeat with x = 1 to the number of controls
    put the short id of control x into cid
    put the rect of control x into crect
    put cid & tab & crect & cr after clist
  end repeat
  delete last char of clist
  set the OriginalGeometry of this stack to clist
end saveGeometry

on restoreGeometry
  local clist, cid, crect
  lock messages
  put the OriginalGeometry of this stack into clist
  set the rect of this stack to line 1 of clist
  delete line 1 of clist
  set the itemdelimiter to tab
  repeat for each line L in clist
    put item 1 of L into cid
    put item 2 of L into crect
    set the rect of control id CID to crect
  end repeat
  if "grev" is in theglobals then
    revcachegeometry
  end if
end restoreGeometry

Now, in theory this should work BUT rev will screw your stuff again as soon
as you've not saved your stack! I've experienced this often with
excrutiating displeasure for 6 months before I abandoned RevGM ANYTHING. Man
was I going mad at the time!

In my professional opinion, the revGM is good for "simple stacks" given no
reverrors ever happen. Sometimes just resizing your stack after the error
will work or from a revupdategeometry called from the message box. If you
have controls that resize or move relative to other controls, avoid using
the rev GM, it will get lost sooner or later!

Maybe a rule of thumb in using the revGM is to implement it "strictly" just
before your release your stack or after all your controls are in their exact
place (in-group-included).

I also wrote a GM missing-ID issue scanner stack which no one has mentioned
which identifies the problem GM entries which are not updated correctly by
the IDE engine - for example when a control with GM props changes IDs it can
cause lots of trouble to any related GM object!

http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=72
(14 KBs zipped stack)

MonsieurX.com has another stack named GIM to replace the GM altogether with
one that will not fail! It also provides a many practical and scriptable GM
features like alignments, scaling, resizing, framing, zooming effects,
auto-menu placement and organization, etc... 

There is no easy-palette to use with it yet... It's like any library, but
once you get used to it, it's quite fast and above all unbreakable... 

The stack script is documented. 

http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=79
(285 KBs - rev stack)

This stack is part of a framework so the graphics may not show correctly.

hope that helps. Sorry for the length...

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com 





> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Jeanne A. E. DeVoto
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 10:07 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: HELP!! - Geometry Gone Berserk, How to fix?
> 
> At 12:11 PM +0100 10/6/2005, David Burgun wrote:
> >HELP! I have a Stack and the geometry has gone berserk. I have a 
> >"breakpoint" inserted in a preOpenStack handler that allows 
> me to quit 
> >the startup path. If I let it continue the Stack displays and the 
> >geometry has scaled/moved objects as if the Stack window were MUCH 
> >bigger. If I Abort in the debugger, the stack displays ok.
> >
> >However, if I type:
> >
> >revUpdateGeometry (which would have been called on the preOpenStackk 
> >path anyway)
> >
> >The geometry goes beswick!
> >
> >How it fix? Is there anyway of resetting the geometry of the Stack?
> 
> 
> With the stack in the correct state (e.g. if you abort), try typing
> 
>    revCacheGeometry
> 
> in the message box. In theory this should rebuild the 
> Geometry Manager settings, and base them off the current 
> position and size.
> --
> jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com 
> http://www.jaedworks.com 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From 36degrees at runrev.com  Sun Oct  9 09:52:13 2005
From: 36degrees at runrev.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 14:52:13 +0100
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
In-Reply-To: <43491822.6BC9B8F4@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <43465919.4E9207D7@Club-Internet.fr>
	<1128859125.17795.82.camel@rachmaninov>
	<43491822.6BC9B8F4@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <1128865933.17795.181.camel@rachmaninov>

Hi JB,

>   get ((36-34.2)*100)
>   put it & cr & trunc(it)

Revolution has a 'numberFormat' property that determines to how many
decimal places are used when numbers are converted to a string.

The difference you are observing here is that the first line is the
string representation of 'it' to (IIRC) 6 decimal places and the second
line is the string representation of trunc(it) to 6 decimal places.

As 'it' contains the number:  
  179.99999999999971578291
When rounded to 6 decimal places you get 180

However, trunc(it) contains 179 and so is just 179 when rounded to 6
decimal places.

If you do:
  set the numberFormat to ".###############"
  get ((36-34.2)*100)
  put it & return & trunc(it)

You get:
  179.999999999999716
  179

Which is more inline with what you see in Javascript.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mark Waddingham ~ 36degrees at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com
       Runtime Revolution ~ User-Centric Development Tools



From Cubist at aol.com  Sun Oct  9 11:42:14 2005
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 11:42:14 EDT
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
Message-ID: <110.53dce6f3.307a9456@aol.com>

sez kray at sonsothunder.com:
>I'm still trying to figure out how something as simple as ((36-34.2)*100)
>can be anything but 180, or how (as Alex put it) "the binary double
>precision representation of 34.2 is inexact"...
   Perhaps a few details will help clear up this question.

   .1 binary = .5 decimal
   .01 binary = .25 decimal
   .001 binary = .125 decimal
   .0001 binary = .0625 decimal
   .00001 binary = .03125 decimal
   .000001 binary = .015625 decimal
   etc

   Try it out and you'll discover that while .2 is a nice, inoffensive 
decimal number, it has a binary representation that turns out to be an infinitely 
repeating sequence, not unlike .111.... for 1/9 or .142857... for 1/7. 
Specifically, .2 decimal = .0011... binary.

>and if it *is*, isn't there
>any other form that could represent 34.2 exactly that's not binary double
>precision?
   Yes. The cryptic abbreviation "BCD" stands for Binary Coded Decimal. It's 
what IBM based its character set EBCDIC on; if you check out the EBCDIC entry 
in the Jargon File, you may see one of the reasons why BCD has never caught on 
amongst hackers.


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sun Oct  9 11:45:50 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 11:45:50 -0400
Subject: repeat & the db funcs
Message-ID: <BC58AB97-FF02-4219-A5E3-D033D4217A1B@conncoll.edu>

Wouldn't little bits of life be simpler if the 'repeat for each'  
control form could iterate through records in a database cursor?

I can think of at least five separate ways this might be a dumb  
question (already there, not possible, why not just..., would  
entail..., etc), and I'll bet I'm missing some.

Charles Hartman



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Oct  9 12:04:53 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 09:04:53 -0700
Subject: computers on network
In-Reply-To: <002701c5cc58$9a1a4b50$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb>
References: <002701c5cc58$9a1a4b50$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb>
Message-ID: <141410187.20051009090453@ahsoftware.net>

Nicolas-

Saturday, October 8, 2005, 3:35:35 PM, you wrote:

> Is there a Rev command that returns the names
> of all computers running on a LAN? (On Win2K,
> I'd click on "My network" to find this out.)

If you're on Win2k, try:

shell("net view")

BTW - I accidentally typed "get view" instead "net view" and got a
completely unanticipated result. I think I have never typed "get" as a
command prompt verb before...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Oct  9 12:08:04 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 09:08:04 -0700
Subject: c
In-Reply-To: <002701c5cc58$9a1a4b50$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb>
References: <002701c5cc58$9a1a4b50$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb>
Message-ID: <1271600922.20051009090804@ahsoftware.net>

Ah...

The "get" command appears to be part of my Perl installation...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From kaveh at river-valley.com  Sun Oct  9 12:44:09 2005
From: kaveh at river-valley.com (Kaveh Bazargan)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 17:44:09 +0100
Subject: Geometry problem on Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <p06230931bf6e89fc253e@[192.168.0.4]>
References: <20051008130740.umyl0do68g48sg0w@webmail.armbase.com>
	<20051008132604.vof9qvwp440kgwc8@webmail.armbase.com>
	<B4794C25-8DDC-4F4F-83A7-B94BFDD79F36@major-k.de>
	<p0623092cbf6d8990181b@192.168.0.4>
	<f99b52860510081636i268b530egb7b767d59698da20@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06230931bf6e89fc253e@[192.168.0.4]>
Message-ID: <p06230905bf6ef7dbc8da@[10.0.1.2]>

I have three buttons next to each other. I have used the Geometry inspector
to scale and position these so they take up the full width of the stack,
and so that they retain a constant spacing from one another.

I notice that when I manually resize the stack *slowly*, it works
correctly. But when I do this fast, the right hand edges of the buttons
move to the correct positions, but the left hand edges remain where they
were, thus the buttons might overlap. Manual resizing slowly, again
corrects this.

When I type

resizestack

from the message box, corrects this too.

Any hints appreciated.
-- 

Kaveh Bazargan
http://www.river-valley.com/
http://www.holographer.org/


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Oct  9 12:49:23 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 12:49:23 -0400
Subject: CNC G-Code Stack
Message-ID: <A3D90F1C-EEFC-44DB-B34E-D3D83FF18ABD@adelphia.net>

Hello, everyone,

I haven't posted lately, been very busy. I have been busy doing two  
other loves of mine, Art and Metal sculpture as well as starting  
another business. But, I am trying to get a hold of a CNC router/ 
plasma torch and was wondering if anyone had successfully created a  
stack to handle the G-code downloading/creating? I remember some talk  
a while back. SO has anyone made progress?


Thanks in advance,

Tom McGrath


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Oct  9 13:00:50 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 12:00:50 -0500
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
In-Reply-To: <1128861669.17795.120.camel@rachmaninov>
Message-ID: <BF6EB6F2.2D583%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/9/05 7:41 AM, "Mark Waddingham" <36degrees at runrev.com> wrote:

> Floating-point arithmetic (which Revolution uses) works entirely in base
> 2. However, while all decimal integers have an accurate representation
> in binary, not all decimal fractions do and this is where the
> approximation error comes from.
> 
> For example:
>  1/8 = 0.125 (decimal) and 0.001 (binary)
> But
>  1/5 = 0.2 (decimal) and 0.0011001100110011... (binary)
> Note that the binary representation of 1/5 is a recurring fraction and
> as such admits no finite (non-rational) representation.

Thanks for that explanation, Mark! It makes sense to me now...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From AbilityForms at aol.com  Sun Oct  9 13:08:58 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 13:08:58 EDT
Subject: Newbie question
Message-ID: <20.4eeffabe.307aa8aa@aol.com>

Hi Everyone,

Is there something I can put in a script that'll stop it there and display 
the script editing window at that point?

Joe
Orlando, Florida


From Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk  Sun Oct  9 13:21:17 2005
From: Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk (Kresten Bjerg)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:21:17 +0200
Subject: Help with text-menu script
Message-ID: <s3496dc3.056@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>

I have had strange troubles trying to implement a primitive text-menu in the menus  of a highly elaborated stack. It shall contain basic styles: plain. bold,italic and underline, + fonts, sizes and colors. I have suceeded in implementing the  last three. in an item 1-item 2 format, - and adding the 4 styles separately: plain,bold,italic,underline/ both before and after the three other groups, - in such a way that all have been functioning for a few hours. But suddenly the styles items disappear, and only the three groups remains. I have tried to re-use elements of the revMenus (all too complex)  text-menu  script, but the same vanishing occured. Can somebody supply a stable script to use in the menu-builders editor, for such a relatively simple menu ?
P.S. I am grateful for the fine advices I have received from this group, to previous questions
Kresten Bjerg
(www.psy.ku.dk/bjerg)



From mark at maseurope.net  Sun Oct  9 13:59:54 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 18:59:54 +0100
Subject: Newbie question
In-Reply-To: <20.4eeffabe.307aa8aa@aol.com>
References: <20.4eeffabe.307aa8aa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <EFDD2612-60C8-4124-B7F9-D1D1C1FE4CB7@maseurope.net>

Joe, you can either simply put "breakpoint" in the script at the  
point you want to, or click in the gey margin to the left of the line  
you want to stop at. Clicking on the red dot that will now be there  
will clear it.

Mark

On 9 Oct 2005, at 18:08, AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> Is there something I can put in a script that'll stop it there and  
> display
> the script editing window at that point?
>
> Joe
> Orlando, Florida
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Oct  9 14:05:52 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 11:05:52 -0700
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
In-Reply-To: <1128859125.17795.82.camel@rachmaninov>
References: <43465919.4E9207D7@Club-Internet.fr>
	<1128859125.17795.82.camel@rachmaninov>
Message-ID: <1708669155.20051009110552@ahsoftware.net>

Mark-

Sunday, October 9, 2005, 4:58:45 AM, you wrote:

> The solution to the issue you have here is to always add a small
> 'epsilon' value to your numbers before truncating.

Sorry, Mark, but that won't do it.

on mouseUp
  local tValue
  
  put 179.99999999999971578291 into tValue
  put trunc(tValue + 1e-8)
end mouseUp

In this case you get 180, even though the specified value is less than
180 by a finite amount, which has the effect of rounding the value to
the next higher integer instead of truncating it.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net  Sun Oct  9 14:08:03 2005
From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ludovic_Th=E9bault?=)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 20:08:03 +0200
Subject: Newbie question
In-Reply-To: <20.4eeffabe.307aa8aa@aol.com>
References: <20.4eeffabe.307aa8aa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20051009200803.454721.865def34@laposte.net>

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 13:08:58 EDT, AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
> Is there something I can put in a script that'll stop it there and display 
> the script editing window at that point?

To debug it ?
Try "breakpoint"

Ludovic


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sun Oct  9 14:26:17 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 14:26:17 -0400
Subject: another beginning SQL/Rev question
Message-ID: <1FC4A462-F2F5-4F3B-9966-9412E5C0E385@conncoll.edu>

Something I don't understand about the revExecuteSQL command. I open  
my MySQL database and get an id. Now, to make later steps more  
general purposes, I'd like to ask the database for the structure of  
one of its tables (number of columns, column names) rather than  
hardwiring that into the Rev front-end. So I should be able to create a
     global myArray
and then with my dbID in hand,
     revExecuteSQL dbID, "show columns in myTable", "myArray"
(taking care to put quotes around myArray as the docs say).

Trouble is, nothing shows up in myArray, or anywhere else as far as I  
can see. Using a variable (or several) instead of myArray doesn't  
help, neither does putting some dummy stuff ("") into myArray[1],  
myArray[2], etc., ahead of time.

What am I not understanding?

Charles Hartman



From jspencer78 at mac.com  Sun Oct  9 15:24:35 2005
From: jspencer78 at mac.com (James Spencer)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 14:24:35 -0500
Subject: another beginning SQL/Rev question
In-Reply-To: <1FC4A462-F2F5-4F3B-9966-9412E5C0E385@conncoll.edu>
References: <1FC4A462-F2F5-4F3B-9966-9412E5C0E385@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <DCD783FE-EA69-43D4-ACC3-C426B613CCBD@mac.com>


On Oct 9, 2005, at 1:26 PM, Charles Hartman wrote:

> Something I don't understand about the revExecuteSQL command. I  
> open my MySQL database and get an id. Now, to make later steps more  
> general purposes, I'd like to ask the database for the structure of  
> one of its tables (number of columns, column names) rather than  
> hardwiring that into the Rev front-end. So I should be able to  
> create a
>     global myArray
> and then with my dbID in hand,
>     revExecuteSQL dbID, "show columns in myTable", "myArray"
> (taking care to put quotes around myArray as the docs say).
>
> Trouble is, nothing shows up in myArray, or anywhere else as far as  
> I can see. Using a variable (or several) instead of myArray doesn't  
> help, neither does putting some dummy stuff ("") into myArray[1],  
> myArray[2], etc., ahead of time.
>
> What am I not understanding?

I'm not sure why this isn't working but then I find proper use of  
revExecuteSQL to be a black art but what may work better in any case  
is to use revDatabase____ (ColumnCount, ColumnNames, etc) rather than  
using revExecuteSQL.

James P. Spencer
Rochester, MN

jspencer78 at mac.com

"Badges??  We don't need no stinkin badges!"



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sun Oct  9 15:56:30 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 15:56:30 -0400
Subject: another beginning SQL/Rev question
In-Reply-To: <DCD783FE-EA69-43D4-ACC3-C426B613CCBD@mac.com>
References: <1FC4A462-F2F5-4F3B-9966-9412E5C0E385@conncoll.edu>
	<DCD783FE-EA69-43D4-ACC3-C426B613CCBD@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CC98E45A-D63D-40A2-8348-0877769D6BEF@conncoll.edu>


On Oct 9, 2005, at 3:24 PM, James Spencer wrote:

> I'm not sure why this isn't working but then I find proper use of  
> revExecuteSQL to be a black art but what may work better in any  
> case is to use revDatabase____ (ColumnCount, ColumnNames, etc)  
> rather than using revExecuteSQL.

But that works only (if I understand correctly) after you've used a  
"select" statement. It works on a "cursor" that's already been  
returned. I'm trying to get information about the column names &  
numbers before I do a "select" (in preparation for "select").

Charles Hartman



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sun Oct  9 16:07:32 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 16:07:32 -0400
Subject: another beginning SQL/Rev question
In-Reply-To: <1FC4A462-F2F5-4F3B-9966-9412E5C0E385@conncoll.edu>
References: <1FC4A462-F2F5-4F3B-9966-9412E5C0E385@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <0218F509-1AF1-4D69-B18D-37C2AEE5DB98@conncoll.edu>


On Oct 9, 2005, at 2:26 PM, Charles Hartman wrote:

> Something I don't understand about the revExecuteSQL command. I  
> open my MySQL database and get an id. Now, to make later steps more  
> general purposes, I'd like to ask the database for the structure of  
> one of its tables (number of columns, column names) rather than  
> hardwiring that into the Rev front-end. So I should be able to  
> create a
>     global myArray
> and then with my dbID in hand,
>     revExecuteSQL dbID, "show columns in myTable", "myArray"
> (taking care to put quotes around myArray as the docs say).
>
> Trouble is, nothing shows up in myArray, or anywhere else as far as  
> I can see. Using a variable (or several) instead of myArray doesn't  
> help, neither does putting some dummy stuff ("") into myArray[1],  
> myArray[2], etc., ahead of time.
>
> What am I not understanding?
>
> Charles Hartman

Footnote:
I also notice that if I run that revExecuteSQL command (with no  
apparent result) and then put something like "select firstnames,  
lastname from person" into tQuery and try to run revQueryDatabase  
using that, I get a "commands out of sync" execution error. If I  
comment out the earlier revExecuteSQL, then the later  
revQueryDatabase works fine. What's going on there??

Charles Hartman



From 36degrees at runrev.com  Sun Oct  9 16:19:37 2005
From: 36degrees at runrev.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 21:19:37 +0100
Subject: Strange math behaviour... could someone explain this ?
In-Reply-To: <1708669155.20051009110552@ahsoftware.net>
References: <43465919.4E9207D7@Club-Internet.fr>
	<1128859125.17795.82.camel@rachmaninov>
	<1708669155.20051009110552@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <1128889177.17795.272.camel@rachmaninov>

Hi Mark,

What you have illustrated is precisely why JB was experiencing this
problem in the first place (and precisely why most languages do not try
to do anything clever when asked to truncate floating-point numbers).

Due to the need to approximate floating-point numbers with a finite
precision, the majority of numbers will *always* deviate from the ideal
number by a finite amount.

However, when you are doing calculations you always know something the
computer does not know: how precise your ideal calculations are. As I
went to say further on in my post, the epsilon value you need will
depend on the circumstance.

In the case you give, you have just given an arbitrary number with no
context, therefore it makes no sense to talk about epsilon values as
there is no way to determine what the maximum deviation from the
expected result could be.

In the case you give, if the number
  179.99999999999971578291
has resulted from a calculation with a maximum error of 1e-7, then it
actually means that the *true* answer lies somewhere in the interval
  (179.99999989999972171972, 180.00000009999970984609)

At which point a truncation of 180 seems like a much more sensible
answer than 179 as it is within the range of error of the calculation -
but then, this is me only guessing at why you wanted to truncate that
value in the first place :o)

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mark Waddingham ~ 36degrees at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com
       Runtime Revolution ~ User-Centric Development Tools



From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Sun Oct  9 16:20:19 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:20:19 +0100
Subject: another beginning SQL/Rev question
In-Reply-To: <1FC4A462-F2F5-4F3B-9966-9412E5C0E385@conncoll.edu>
References: <1FC4A462-F2F5-4F3B-9966-9412E5C0E385@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <F026A659-C4CA-4B53-A11D-46CBA3E736E9@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 9 Oct 2005, at 19:26, Charles Hartman wrote:

> Something I don't understand about the revExecuteSQL command. I  
> open my MySQL database and get an id. Now, to make later steps more  
> general purposes, I'd like to ask the database for the structure of  
> one of its tables (number of columns, column names) rather than  
> hardwiring that into the Rev front-end. So I should be able to  
> create a
>     global myArray
> and then with my dbID in hand,
>     revExecuteSQL dbID, "show columns in myTable", "myArray"
> (taking care to put quotes around myArray as the docs say).
>
> Trouble is, nothing shows up in myArray, or anywhere else as far as  
> I can see. Using a variable (or several) instead of myArray doesn't  
> help, neither does putting some dummy stuff ("") into myArray[1],  
> myArray[2], etc., ahead of time.

The variable or array is used to substitute values in the SQL  
statement, not to receive data from the query.

Try using revdb_querylist (or revDataFromQuery) to execute SQL that  
returns data.

For example

    put "show columns in myTable" into tQuery
    put revdb_querylist(,, dbID,tQuery) into tData
    put tData into field "whatever'

The docs aren't too clear on this. They seem to say use revdb_execute  
(or revExecuteSQL) for everything except SELECT statements. But I  
think we have to infer that any SQL that returns data should be  
treated in the same way as SELECT. (as opposed to INSERT, UPDATE,  
etc. where we should use revdb_execute)


Cheers
Dave


From irog at mac.com  Sun Oct  9 18:55:05 2005
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 15:55:05 -0700
Subject: ANN:  New release of InfoMatic
Message-ID: <FC487B8A-984B-49CC-B96F-223E6C252EF4@mac.com>

Hello All,

I've fixed a number of bugs and added new features to InfoMatic, a  
simple tool to manage information of almost any kind.  One of the  
added features is a Major Category on Transcript.  Admittedly, this  
is a shameless attempt on my part to entice at least a few you to  
have a look, and give me some feedback.  I hope you enjoy it.

Cheers, Roger




From ianl at mac.com  Sun Oct  9 20:23:56 2005
From: ianl at mac.com (Ian Leigh)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 01:23:56 +0100
Subject: When do certain scripts run?
Message-ID: <09DAFF95-537E-48B8-B5A3-FC09B9420468@mac.com>

I am putting together a simple program which scans a directory and  
lists the files contained therein in a scrolling list field. I am  
wondering when the script of that field would actually get called?  
For example, I would like to put a filter on it but I can't do it by  
putting the filter command in the script for the field, which seems a  
bit illogical. At that point are scripts for a scroll list actually run?

Cheers

Ian


From ianl at mac.com  Sun Oct  9 21:23:11 2005
From: ianl at mac.com (Ian Leigh)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 02:23:11 +0100
Subject: Removing text from a string
Message-ID: <96EDCCCE-48E5-46CA-B5C0-266E5C61C8EB@mac.com>

I have a list of filenames which are displayed in a list field. When  
clicked on the name of the selected file appears in a label but I  
don't want the extension displayed. I have looked at the docs but  
can't see a simple way of doing it!

Cheers

Ian


From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Sun Oct  9 21:28:24 2005
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:28:24 +0800
Subject: repeat & the db funcs
In-Reply-To: <BC58AB97-FF02-4219-A5E3-D033D4217A1B@conncoll.edu>
References: <BC58AB97-FF02-4219-A5E3-D033D4217A1B@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <f73a98160510091828t1054aeabva0607d7e031d1b5a@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/9/05, Charles Hartman <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu> wrote:
>
> Wouldn't little bits of life be simpler if the 'repeat for each'
> control form could iterate through records in a database cursor?


Yes, I think I could put that to good use.

> I can think of at least five separate ways this might be a dumb
> question (already there, not possible, why not just..., would
> entail..., etc), and I'll bet I'm missing some.
>

In the mean time, a couple of 'why not just...'

If the data is small, say less than 100MB, why not just use the
'revDataFromQuery' function to load all the data into a variable on which
you can then use the 'repeat for each line tMyLine of tMyVarFullOfData'.
This would be much quicker than repeated calls to the database.

If the data is large, why not just use 'revCurrentRecordIsLast' function in
a 'repeat until...' control structure:

repeat until revCurrentRecordIsLast(tMyRecordSetID)
<insert your transcript code here>
revMoveToNextRecord tMyRecordSetID
end repeat

In this last case though, I think your suggestion would be a nice option.

Cheers


From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Sun Oct  9 21:40:26 2005
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:40:26 +0800
Subject: CNC G-Code Stack
In-Reply-To: <A3D90F1C-EEFC-44DB-B34E-D3D83FF18ABD@adelphia.net>
References: <A3D90F1C-EEFC-44DB-B34E-D3D83FF18ABD@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <f73a98160510091840k4f793cd8w41d4e01dbecda27a@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/10/05, Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:
>
> Hello, everyone,
>
> I am trying to get a hold of a CNC router/
> plasma torch and was wondering if anyone had successfully created a
> stack to handle the G-code downloading/creating? I remember some talk
> a while back. SO has anyone made progress?
>

I'd be interested also. Even if someone out there is driving stepper motors
via Rev, using raw commands rather than G code I'd be interested in what
your setup is and how your doing it.

Thanks


From mark at maseurope.net  Sun Oct  9 21:45:57 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 02:45:57 +0100
Subject: Removing text from a string
In-Reply-To: <96EDCCCE-48E5-46CA-B5C0-266E5C61C8EB@mac.com>
References: <96EDCCCE-48E5-46CA-B5C0-266E5C61C8EB@mac.com>
Message-ID: <B9157417-8DF2-4C48-A6B5-54EA206D965F@maseurope.net>

something like

get offset(".",tFileName)
delete char it to -1 of tFileName

Mark

On 10 Oct 2005, at 02:23, Ian Leigh wrote:

> I have a list of filenames which are displayed in a list field.  
> When clicked on the name of the selected file appears in a label  
> but I don't want the extension displayed. I have looked at the docs  
> but can't see a simple way of doing it!
>
> Cheers
>
> Ian
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sun Oct  9 22:03:13 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 19:03:13 -0700
Subject: Removing text from a string
In-Reply-To: <96EDCCCE-48E5-46CA-B5C0-266E5C61C8EB@mac.com>
References: <96EDCCCE-48E5-46CA-B5C0-266E5C61C8EB@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p06210237bf6f7bbe4bb7@[66.93.39.98]>

At 2:23 AM +0100 10/10/2005, Ian Leigh wrote:
>I have a list of filenames which are displayed in a list field. When 
>clicked on the name of the selected file appears in a label but I 
>don't want the extension displayed. I have looked at the docs but 
>can't see a simple way of doing it!

This will do it:

   set the itemDelimiter to "."
   put item 1 to -2 of the selectedText into field "Label"

(If you're certain the filename itself doesn't contain any periods, 
you can substitute
   put item 1 of the selectedText into field "Label"
for the second line. If you're working exclusively for Windows, you 
can make this simplifying assumption, but not for Mac OS, OS X, or 
Unix.)
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sun Oct  9 22:38:15 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 22:38:15 -0400
Subject: another beginning SQL/Rev question
In-Reply-To: <F026A659-C4CA-4B53-A11D-46CBA3E736E9@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <1FC4A462-F2F5-4F3B-9966-9412E5C0E385@conncoll.edu>
	<F026A659-C4CA-4B53-A11D-46CBA3E736E9@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B9F4C75C-0127-489F-AFFB-828B25BFF136@conncoll.edu>

Exactly right:
     put "show columns from person" into tQuery
     get revDataFromQuery(comma,return,myDBid,tQuery)
Now 'it' contains a list of lines, one per db column, of comma- 
delimited items.

Don't know how I'm going to use it yet -- but thanks very much for  
helping me get it.

Charles Hartman

On Oct 9, 2005, at 4:20 PM, Dave Cragg wrote:

>
> On 9 Oct 2005, at 19:26, Charles Hartman wrote:
>
>
>> Something I don't understand about the revExecuteSQL command. I  
>> open my MySQL database and get an id. Now, to make later steps  
>> more general purposes, I'd like to ask the database for the  
>> structure of one of its tables (number of columns, column names)  
>> rather than hardwiring that into the Rev front-end. So I should be  
>> able to create a
>>     global myArray
>> and then with my dbID in hand,
>>     revExecuteSQL dbID, "show columns in myTable", "myArray"
>> (taking care to put quotes around myArray as the docs say).
>>
>> Trouble is, nothing shows up in myArray, or anywhere else as far  
>> as I can see. Using a variable (or several) instead of myArray  
>> doesn't help, neither does putting some dummy stuff ("") into  
>> myArray[1], myArray[2], etc., ahead of time.
>>
>
> The variable or array is used to substitute values in the SQL  
> statement, not to receive data from the query.
>
> Try using revdb_querylist (or revDataFromQuery) to execute SQL that  
> returns data.
>
> For example
>
>    put "show columns in myTable" into tQuery
>    put revdb_querylist(,, dbID,tQuery) into tData
>    put tData into field "whatever'
>
> The docs aren't too clear on this. They seem to say use  
> revdb_execute (or revExecuteSQL) for everything except SELECT  
> statements. But I think we have to infer that any SQL that returns  
> data should be treated in the same way as SELECT. (as opposed to  
> INSERT, UPDATE, etc. where we should use revdb_execute)
>
>
> Cheers
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Sun Oct  9 22:41:54 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:41:54 +1000
Subject: When do certain scripts run?
In-Reply-To: <09DAFF95-537E-48B8-B5A3-FC09B9420468@mac.com>
References: <09DAFF95-537E-48B8-B5A3-FC09B9420468@mac.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510091941t75790de5w16456275dbfa42c2@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/10/05, Ian Leigh <ianl at mac.com> wrote:
> I am putting together a simple program which scans a directory and
> lists the files contained therein in a scrolling list field. I am
> wondering when the script of that field would actually get called?
> For example, I would like to put a filter on it but I can't do it by
> putting the filter command in the script for the field, which seems a
> bit illogical. At that point are scripts for a scroll list actually run?
>

Hi Ian,

Revolution is event-driven, so a handler needs to be triggered by a
particular event. e.g. when you script a button, you use the mouseUp
event to tell the button to do it's stuff when the mouse button is
released over the button.

For your field, it depends what your script is for. If you want to do
something based on a selection, then use a mouseUp handler. If you
want to apply a filter then you probably have another field where the
filter can be typed, so use a rawKeyUp handler in that filter field so
that every time a key is pressed & released, the filter is applied.

HTH,
Sarah


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sun Oct  9 22:42:19 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 22:42:19 -0400
Subject: repeat & the db funcs
In-Reply-To: <f73a98160510091828t1054aeabva0607d7e031d1b5a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BC58AB97-FF02-4219-A5E3-D033D4217A1B@conncoll.edu>
	<f73a98160510091828t1054aeabva0607d7e031d1b5a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FF7CCDFA-CC48-4798-B87C-06C10B6EC321@conncoll.edu>


On Oct 9, 2005, at 9:28 PM, Kay C Lan wrote:

> If the data is small, say less than 100MB, why not just use the
> 'revDataFromQuery' function to load all the data into a variable on  
> which
> you can then use the 'repeat for each line tMyLine of  
> tMyVarFullOfData'.
> This would be much quicker than repeated calls to the database.

That does make sense. If it makes me squeamish, that's just OCD . . .

>
> If the data is large, why not just use 'revCurrentRecordIsLast'  
> function in
> a 'repeat until...' control structure:
>
> repeat until revCurrentRecordIsLast(tMyRecordSetID)
> <insert your transcript code here>
> revMoveToNextRecord tMyRecordSetID
> end repeat

> In this last case though, I think your suggestion would be a nice  
> option.

I missed the revCurrentRecordIsLast() function. With that, no reason  
to mess with the repeat control-structure syntax. Thanks. I thought I  
might be overlooking a simple solution.

Charles Hartman



From ianl at mac.com  Mon Oct 10 04:52:52 2005
From: ianl at mac.com (Ian Leigh)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:52:52 +0100
Subject: Database or large text file processing??
Message-ID: <9278C97E-1564-482F-8A93-502361782DB1@mac.com>

Hello again!

I wish to retrieve details about a particular file which are held in  
a text file, fairly large at about 264000 lines. The file contains  
details about many files but I only need to retrieve one file at a  
time. I am wondering about the best way to deal with this. The text  
file is set out in such a way that the filename is found first (with  
a specific character) and the information about follows. It is always  
in the same format but obviously some have more text than others (is  
this making sense) so there aren't specific field lengths etc..

I could try and bring that file in and use arrays I suppose but I  
don't know what effect that would have on performance and filesize. I  
don't know anything about using databases with rev but I wonder if  
using them would be a more elegant solution. I don't want to have to  
import the text file every time the program is run and the text file  
itself is subject to occasional updating. This led me to think that  
just search through the text file itself might make it a bit more  
robust but I could do with some advice about which way to go.

Thanks all!




From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Oct 10 07:42:33 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:42:33 +0100
Subject: Database or large text file processing??
In-Reply-To: <9278C97E-1564-482F-8A93-502361782DB1@mac.com>
References: <9278C97E-1564-482F-8A93-502361782DB1@mac.com>
Message-ID: <434A53A9.5050702@tweedly.net>

Ian Leigh wrote:

>
> I wish to retrieve details about a particular file which are held in  
> a text file, fairly large at about 264000 lines. The file contains  
> details about many files but I only need to retrieve one file at a  
> time. I am wondering about the best way to deal with this. The text  
> file is set out in such a way that the filename is found first (with  
> a specific character) and the information about follows. It is always  
> in the same format but obviously some have more text than others (is  
> this making sense) so there aren't specific field lengths etc..
>
So I take it your file looks something like
+ <filename1>
info about filename1
which can be guaranteed to not contain any plus signs
because that's the "specific character" you mention
+ <filename2>
with not much info
+ <filename3> etc.

And each time the program is run, you get a filename (from the user) and 
on;y want the info on that one file.
Is that close enough to an accurate description ?

> I could try and bring that file in and use arrays I suppose but I  
> don't know what effect that would have on performance and filesize. 

You might need, or want, arrays in other languages, but don't need them 
in Rev for this kind of thing.

> I  don't know anything about using databases with rev but I wonder if  
> using them would be a more elegant solution. 

Don't see anything there that needs a database.

> I don't want to have to  import the text file every time the program 
> is run and the text file  itself is subject to occasional updating. 
> This led me to think that  just search through the text file itself 
> might make it a bit more  robust but I could do with some advice about 
> which way to go.
>
You'll want to read the file each time (to deal with the updating 
issue). But it will be really, really quick.

I don't think 240K lines (say < 10M) should be a problem reading into a 
variable in Rev, so I'd recommend (at least as a first try), something like

Here's a little script I tried out

> on mouseUp
>   local tInfo, tFile, tCatalog
>   answer file "Specify a catalog file"
>   put it into tCatalog
>   put fld "Input" into tFile
>   put getFileInfo(tCatalog, tFile) into tInfo
>   put tInfo into fld "Field"
> end mouseUp
>
> function getFileInfo pCatalog, pFile
>   local tAlldata, tStart, tEnd
>   put URL ("file:" & pCatalog) into tAllData
>  
>   put lineoffset("+ " & pFile, tAllData) into tStart
>   if tStart = 0 then
>     -- file not found
>     return "file " & pFile & " not found"
>   end if
>   put lineOffset("+", tAllData, tStart) into tEnd
>   if tEnd = 0 then
>     put -1 into tEnd
>   else
>     put tStart + tEnd -1 into tEnd
>   end if
>   return line tSTart to tEnd of tAllData
> end getFileInfo

and it retrieves the info in < 1 second on a 242439 line file (finding a 
file about 100 lines from the end).

Hope that gives you some ideas ...

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/127 - Release Date: 10/10/2005



From Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk  Mon Oct 10 09:55:54 2005
From: Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk (Kresten Bjerg)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:55:54 +0200
Subject: HELP ! Menuscripting, disapearing items
Message-ID: <s34a8f1c.034@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>

Hi
(previous message was strangely abbreviated on the list, so I  resubmit):
I have had strange troubles trying to implement a primitive text-menu in the menus  of a highly elaborated stack. It shall contain basic styles: plain. bold,italic and underline, + fonts, sizes and colors. I have suceeded in implementing the  last three. in an item 1 / item 2 format, - and adding the 4 styles separately: plain,bold,italic,underline/ both before and after the three other groups, - in such a way that all have been functioning for a few hours. But suddenly the styles items disappear, and only the three groups remains. I have tried to re-use elements of the revMenus (all too complex)  text-menu  script, but the same vanishing occured. Can somebody supply a stable script to use in the menu-builders editor, for such a relatively simple menu ?
P.S. I am grateful for the fine advices I have received from this group, to previous questions
Kresten Bjerg
(www.psy.ku.dk/bjerg)



From Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk  Mon Oct 10 10:11:57 2005
From: Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk (Kresten Bjerg)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:11:57 +0200
Subject: HELP:HELP:Menuitems disappear,postings castrated
Message-ID: <s34a92d1.058@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>

Hi
(previous message was strangely abbreviated on the list, so I  resubmitted it, but it was again castrated):
I have had strange troubles trying to implement a primitive text-menu in the menus  of a highly elaborated stack. It shall contain basic styles: plain. bold,italic and underline, + fonts, sizes and colors. I have suceeded in implementing the  last three. in an item 1 / item 2 format, - and adding the 4 styles separately: plain,bold,italic,underline/ both before and after the three other groups, - in such a way that all have been functioning for a few hours. But suddenly the styles items disappear, and only the three groups remains. I have tried to re-use elements of the revMenus (all too complex)  text-menu  script, but the same vanishing occured. Can somebody supply a stable script to use in the menu-builders editor, for such a relatively simple menu ?
P.S. I am grateful for the fine advices I have received from this group, to previous questions
Kresten Bjerg
(www.psy.ku.dk/bjerg)
 I try re-copying the "censored" lines:
. It shall contain basic styles: plain. bold,italic and underline, + fonts, sizes and colors. I have suceeded in implementing the  last three. in an item 1 / item 2 format, - and adding the 4 styles separately: plain,bold,italic,underline/ both before and after the three other groups, - in such a way that all have been functioning for a few hours. But suddenly the styles items disappear, and only the three groups remains. I have tried to re-use elements of the revMenus (all too complex)  text-menu  script, but the same vanishing occured. Can somebody supply a stable script to use in the menu-builders editor, for such a relatively simple menu ?
Hope some of this may get through
Kresten




From sims at ezpzapps.com  Mon Oct 10 10:13:51 2005
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:13:51 +0200
Subject: QT version on Windows
Message-ID: <p06200704bf7025756408@[10.0.0.91]>

In order to use QTVersion on Windows it seems that Rev loads QuickTime.

Once it is loaded, you cannot set dontUseQT to true.

I want to check for QT 7 on a Windows machine and if it is available use
QT 7 to play some video - if it is not available, play a wmv version 
of the video instead.

But if the user has QuickTime available BUT not QT 7 and you check 
for QT version, you are stuck with
QT being loaded!

Anyone know how to check for the QuickTime version on a Windows machine
without using QTVersion?

ciao,
sims


From alcy.runrev1 at 7power7.com  Mon Oct 10 10:52:45 2005
From: alcy.runrev1 at 7power7.com (Alcy)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 00:52:45 +1000
Subject: ALCY (Beginner )> Auto Indentation/ Default font / Tab Pannel / Date
 functions
Message-ID: <434A803D.70202@7power7.com>


Hi all,
I am still a beginner and have a series of questions:
1- How can I stop the automatic indentation of the code?  I find it 
rather cahotic and I would rather take care of it myself, I personally 
prefer no identation but I use a certain amount of # characters to mark 
the blocks such as  if/end if...
eg:
# Do this for now ###
if ..
done here
end if
###
This method is much clearer for me and keeps the maximum length 
available for the code and practically, it saves a lot of time..

2- How can I set the default size of the text and font of new buttons? 
Looks like the default settings of my preferences is not taken into 
account for new buttons Text/size properties. At the moment I copy and 
paste existing buttons but there must be some default settings I have 
missed somewhere right?

3- Tab pannel: How does it work? At the moment when I click on a tab of 
the "Tab pannel" it shows as selected, however what is the property 
recording the tab which has been clicked? (the label stays empty) Also 
it looks like it doesn't handle the navigation in long lists, has 
someone done a routine to navigate in a list of menus and display the 
list in a tab pannel?

thanks in advance for your help :)
By the way, the advice I have received to prevent crashes have worked, 
the list of potentially dangerous actions should be in the user manual, 
at the start ;-)  We can handle our weaknesses better once we know them. 
And, a day of work to recover might cost more than Rev sometimes..(I now 
save the main stack under several names regularly)

Alcy



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Oct 10 11:16:53 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:16:53 +0200
Subject: ALCY (Beginner )> Auto Indentation/ Default font / Tab Pannel /
	Date functions
In-Reply-To: <434A803D.70202@7power7.com>
Message-ID: <20051010144813.90941824E1E@mail.runrev.com>

Hi Alcy
> 
> Hi all,
> I am still a beginner and have a series of questions:
> 1- How can I stop the automatic indentation of the code?  I 
> find it rather cahotic and I would rather take care of it 
> myself, I personally prefer no identation but I use a certain 
> amount of # characters to mark the blocks such as  if/end if...
> eg:
> # Do this for now ###
> if ..
> done here
> end if
> ###
> This method is much clearer for me and keeps the maximum 
> length available for the code and practically, it saves a lot 
> of time..

go to preferences and click on script editor and then on the 
auto-format button.

> 2- How can I set the default size of the text and font of new 
> buttons? 
> Looks like the default settings of my preferences is not 
> taken into account for new buttons Text/size properties. At 
> the moment I copy and paste existing buttons but there must 
> be some default settings I have missed somewhere right?

I was going to tell that to Rev about a year ago but nobody seemed to listen
so im working on it on my own... I don't know if others have done the
same...

My method is not finished though...

Although, there is a simple method... just create your buttons and set the
stack's font properties to the default you want... It's that simple...

> 3- Tab pannel: How does it work? At the moment when I click 
> on a tab of the "Tab pannel" it shows as selected, however 
> what is the property recording the tab which has been 
> clicked? (the label stays empty) Also it looks like it 
> doesn't handle the navigation in long lists, has someone done 
> a routine to navigate in a list of menus and display the list 
> in a tab pannel?

Tabs work like menus. You put the lines you want into it's content (put the
menulinestext into btn "tabmenu". 

use a menupick handler to detect what was selected. You'll find plenty of
examples on revonline. 

The basic script goes like this:

on menupick newitem, olditem
  go card newitem
  or -- my prefered
  hide group olditem
  show group newitem
end menupick

one example of multiple tabs is in my discretebrowser stack - in the source
tab item, you have another tab to see different sources. In the options tab
item, you have an index field version of the same tab menu.

Here's the last entry about it which is not the latest...
http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=139
The stack was changed significantly for the XOS framework which I work on.
But the tabs will work great.

cheers
Xavier

cheers
Xavier



From rjb at robelko.com  Mon Oct 10 10:00:35 2005
From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:00:35 +0200
Subject: Newbie question
In-Reply-To: <20.4eeffabe.307aa8aa@aol.com>
References: <20.4eeffabe.307aa8aa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a0611040bbf70243fcb9c@[141.89.100.174]>

>Hi Everyone,
>
>Is there something I can put in a script that'll stop it there and display
>the script editing window at that point?
>
>Joe
>Orlando, Florida

If you want to enter the script editor (as opposed to debugging):

edit the script of me
edit the script of this cd
etc

Robert


From jhurley at infostations.com  Mon Oct 10 11:23:00 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:23:00 -0700
Subject: Playing audio clips
In-Reply-To: <20051010111622.92214824DEA@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051010111622.92214824DEA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p0623091bbf70372d47cc@[69.85.158.21]>

As far as I can make out  from the documentation one can only  start 
(from the  beginning) and stop an audio clip. It is not possible to 
pause,  resume or control the speed.

Did I get this right?

Jim


From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 10 11:33:23 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:33:23 +0200
Subject: Playing audio clips
In-Reply-To: <p0623091bbf70372d47cc@[69.85.158.21]>
References: <20051010111622.92214824DEA@mail.runrev.com>
	<p0623091bbf70372d47cc@[69.85.158.21]>
Message-ID: <D64EE7B5-56D6-430C-A403-F8BE3D422B60@major-k.de>

Hi Jim,

> As far as I can make out  from the documentation one can only   
> start (from the  beginning) and stop an audio clip.
> It is not possible to pause,  resume or control the speed.

if you had a look at "play" in the docs, you should have also seen  
these commands:

play pause ac "xyz"
-> Will pause an audioclip (ac)

play resume ac "xyz"
-> Will resume (go figure :-) a paused audioclip

> Did I get this right?

No, except the "speed" thing :-)

> Jim

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From mark at maseurope.net  Mon Oct 10 11:39:02 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:39:02 +0100
Subject: ALCY (Beginner )> Auto Indentation/ Default font / Tab Pannel /
	Date functions
In-Reply-To: <434A803D.70202@7power7.com>
References: <434A803D.70202@7power7.com>
Message-ID: <F7586799-DCB1-484E-B946-C730BC4B08A5@maseurope.net>

New controls inherit their font and other settings from the stack  
they're in. If you set those properties for the stack, your buttons  
will inherit them...as will your fields and all other controls, which  
may not be what you want. Otherwise, short of customising the IDE,  
there's not a really simple way to have new buttons default to one  
font, and fields to another, as far as I know.

You can switch off the auto-formatting of scripts in the script  
editor preferences.

Cheers,

Mark

On 10 Oct 2005, at 15:52, Alcy wrote:

> 2- How can I set the default size of the text and font of new  
> buttons? Looks like the default settings of my preferences is not  
> taken into account for new buttons Text/size properties. At the  
> moment I copy and paste existing buttons but there must be some  
> default settings I have missed somewhere right?
>



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Oct 10 11:41:06 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:41:06 +0200
Subject: Playing audio clips
In-Reply-To: <D64EE7B5-56D6-430C-A403-F8BE3D422B60@major-k.de>
References: <20051010111622.92214824DEA@mail.runrev.com>
	<p0623091bbf70372d47cc@[69.85.158.21]>
	<D64EE7B5-56D6-430C-A403-F8BE3D422B60@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <D4089442-7341-47AE-BCD7-CFABF37F159E@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Klaus,

Unfortunately, play pause, resume, etc. only work with video clips  
but not with audio clips:
To pause a movie, use the play pause form. Continue playing with play  
resume. You can move one frame backward or forward with the play step  
form. If you use one of these commands with a clip that is not  
currently playing, the result function returns "videoClip is not  
playing". If the clip is a sound, these forms simply play the sound,  
ignoring the words "pause", "resume", or "step".
Then Jim is right :-(

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 10 oct. 05 ? 17:33, Klaus Major a ?crit :

> Hi Jim,
>
>
>> As far as I can make out  from the documentation one can only   
>> start (from the  beginning) and stop an audio clip.
>> It is not possible to pause,  resume or control the speed.
>>
>
> if you had a look at "play" in the docs, you should have also seen  
> these commands:
>
> play pause ac "xyz"
> -> Will pause an audioclip (ac)
>
> play resume ac "xyz"
> -> Will resume (go figure :-) a paused audioclip
>
>
>> Did I get this right?
>>
>
> No, except the "speed" thing :-)
>
>
>> Jim
>>
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> http://www.major-k.de

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From mark at maseurope.net  Mon Oct 10 11:45:28 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:45:28 +0100
Subject: ALCY (Beginner )> Auto Indentation/ Default font / Tab Pannel /
	Date functions
In-Reply-To: <434A803D.70202@7power7.com>
References: <434A803D.70202@7power7.com>
Message-ID: <80F18C69-A1FB-4EFE-8D1F-F3FD833EB7A3@maseurope.net>

Actually, a quick perusal of the docs reveals the 'newButton'  
message, sent to the new button when it's created, so you could put  
this in the script of your stack:

on newButton
set the textSize of the target to yourSize
set the textFont of the target to yourFont
end newButton

also see "newField" etc

Mark

On 10 Oct 2005, at 15:52, Alcy wrote:

> 2- How can I set the default size of the text and font of new  
> buttons? Looks like the default settings of my preferences is not  
> taken into account for new buttons Text/size properties. At the  
> moment I copy and paste existing buttons but there must be some  
> default settings I have missed somewhere right?
>



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Oct 10 11:47:15 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:47:15 +0200
Subject: ALCY (Beginner )> Auto Indentation/ Default font / Tab Pannel /
	Date functions
In-Reply-To: <F7586799-DCB1-484E-B946-C730BC4B08A5@maseurope.net>
References: <434A803D.70202@7power7.com>
	<F7586799-DCB1-484E-B946-C730BC4B08A5@maseurope.net>
Message-ID: <BA3DB603-E519-41A1-A8E6-53D3DA0D4D8A@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Alcy,

You could have a look at the templateButton keyword in the docs  
(templateField, templateCard, etc.)
If you define by script the properties of those, you will be able to  
create buttons, fields, etc. perfectly customised :-)

Le 10 oct. 05 ? 17:39, Mark Smith a ?crit :

> New controls inherit their font and other settings from the stack  
> they're in. If you set those properties for the stack, your buttons  
> will inherit them...as will your fields and all other controls,  
> which may not be what you want. Otherwise, short of customising the  
> IDE, there's not a really simple way to have new buttons default to  
> one font, and fields to another, as far as I know.
>
> You can switch off the auto-formatting of scripts in the script  
> editor preferences.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mark
>
> On 10 Oct 2005, at 15:52, Alcy wrote:
>
>
>> 2- How can I set the default size of the text and font of new  
>> buttons? Looks like the default settings of my preferences is not  
>> taken into account for new buttons Text/size properties. At the  
>> moment I copy and paste existing buttons but there must be some  
>> default settings I have missed somewhere right?

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 10 11:48:17 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:48:17 +0200
Subject: Playing audio clips
In-Reply-To: <D4089442-7341-47AE-BCD7-CFABF37F159E@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <20051010111622.92214824DEA@mail.runrev.com>
	<p0623091bbf70372d47cc@[69.85.158.21]>
	<D64EE7B5-56D6-430C-A403-F8BE3D422B60@major-k.de>
	<D4089442-7341-47AE-BCD7-CFABF37F159E@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <EDDFAD5B-078D-48B1-A615-C5455D44AD26@major-k.de>

Bonjour Eric,

> Hi Klaus,
>
> Unfortunately, play pause, resume, etc. only work with video clips  
> but not with audio clips:
> To pause a movie, use the play pause form. Continue playing with  
> play resume. You can move one frame backward or forward with the  
> play step form. If you use one of these commands with a clip that  
> is not currently playing, the result function returns "videoClip is  
> not playing". If the clip is a sound, these forms simply play the  
> sound, ignoring the words "pause", "resume", or "step".

oh, yes, sorry, i should start to read the WHOLE page in the docs :-/

> Then Jim is right :-(

C'est vrai.

I hope that one of the future versions of Rev will finally support
WindowsMedia a TINY bit more ;-)

Using "MCISendString" IS a pain in the ass, right sims?!!! ;-)

> Best Regards from Paris,
>
> Eric Chatonet.

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Mon Oct 10 11:50:49 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:50:49 -0700
Subject: Database or large text file processing??
In-Reply-To: <9278C97E-1564-482F-8A93-502361782DB1@mac.com>
References: <9278C97E-1564-482F-8A93-502361782DB1@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p06230900bf7039d67c63@[192.168.1.103]>

>Hello again!
>
>I wish to retrieve details about a particular file which are held in 
>a text file, fairly large at about 264000 lines. The file contains 
>details about many

One nice thing about a database, especially a remote one, it that it 
handles everything you need to do with data - store, move, access, 
calculate in a nice module in a structured way so you can concentrate 
on your business logic at hand. And multi-user capability is built in.

MySQL is very easy to use and the commands are even more simple than 
Transcript. Many ISPs offer MySQL and other databases that are 
included with web service (PLUG: Dreamhost). Having the ISP configure 
the messy parts and maintaining the hardware had removed my final 
obstacles to using a database. My ISP offers unlimited databases and 
I don't have to deal with license fees.

Highly Recommended to learn about databases with Rev:
Sara's Tutorial/ examples
http://www.troz.net/Rev/tutorials.html

 From Sarah's site:
-----------------------
MySQLtests.rev
This stack provides a GUI for testing connections to MySQL databases. 
It does basic queries as well as editing of tables and records. Not 
intended for long term use, but I found it helpful when starting to 
learn about MySQL.

MySQL.rev
This stack is a simple client for communicating with MySQL servers 
either on your own computer or remotely. It accepts any MySQL command 
and displays the results in a simple text-based table form. It is 
supposed to be similar to the client available when using OS X's 
Terminal, but does not require that the client & server be installed 
on your computer.
-----------------------
And when you understand how RevDB works and you move on to your 
application, then you'll want to use Trevor Devore's DB Library 
that's  a database abstraction library written in Transcript, that 
makes it all much easier.
http://mangomultimedia.com/developer/revolution/

The earlier 1.x version also includes a simple working example; the 
newer 2.xx BETA has even more features but no demo yet - and the 
syntax is slightly different on a few routines. I've used them both 
and they both work well and the 'upgrade' to the new library amounts 
to changing a couple of lines in your code.

Sarah and Trevor ROCK!

sqb


-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -

From 36degrees at runrev.com  Mon Oct 10 12:01:18 2005
From: 36degrees at runrev.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:01:18 +0100
Subject: 2.6.1 Release
Message-ID: <1128960078.17795.311.camel@rachmaninov>

Hi all,

This is just a quick note to let you know that Revolution 2.6.1 is now
available for download from the usual place:
  http://downloads.runrev.com

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mark Waddingham ~ 36degrees at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com
       Runtime Revolution ~ User-Centric Development Tools



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Oct 10 12:07:31 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:07:31 +0200
Subject: 2.6.1 Release
In-Reply-To: <1128960078.17795.311.camel@rachmaninov>
Message-ID: <20051010153834.C12CE824F2C@mail.runrev.com>

funny, I typed the version and it says 2.6.5...

something wrong?

cheers 
Xav

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Mark Waddingham
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 6:01 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: 2.6.1 Release
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> This is just a quick note to let you know that Revolution 
> 2.6.1 is now available for download from the usual place:
>   http://downloads.runrev.com
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Mark Waddingham ~ 36degrees at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com
>        Runtime Revolution ~ User-Centric Development Tools
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Oct 10 12:12:40 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:12:40 +0200
Subject: 2.6.1 Release
In-Reply-To: <1128960078.17795.311.camel@rachmaninov>
Message-ID: <20051010154343.5C9B2824F28@mail.runrev.com>

just got worse!

Mark (on revchat) tells me he gets 261 on his Mac.

My the version says 2.6.5 on windows... and the last version I downloaded I
renamed as 2.6.1... so what version do I give this download?

;))

X trouble B
http://monsieurx.com - now making moires with version numbers ;)
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Mark Waddingham
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 6:01 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: 2.6.1 Release
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> This is just a quick note to let you know that Revolution 
> 2.6.1 is now available for download from the usual place:
>   http://downloads.runrev.com
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Mark Waddingham ~ 36degrees at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com
>        Runtime Revolution ~ User-Centric Development Tools
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Mon Oct 10 12:14:14 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:14:14 -0700
Subject: 2.6.1 Release
In-Reply-To: <1128960078.17795.311.camel@rachmaninov>
References: <1128960078.17795.311.camel@rachmaninov>
Message-ID: <p06230901bf70433cb04d@[192.168.1.103]>

So if my studio license ran out last week this won't work for me?
thanks
sqb

(time to get the Enterprise package?)

>Hi all,
>
>This is just a quick note to let you know that Revolution 2.6.1 is now
>available for download from the usual place:
>   http://downloads.runrev.com
>
>Warmest Regards,
>
>Mark.

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From alcy.runrev1 at 7power7.com  Mon Oct 10 12:21:26 2005
From: alcy.runrev1 at 7power7.com (Alcy)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 02:21:26 +1000
Subject: ALCY (Beginner )> Auto Indentation/ Default font / Tab Pannel
References: <434A803D.70202@7power7.com>
	<F7586799-DCB1-484E-B946-C730BC4B08A5@maseurope.net>
	<434A938D.40005@7power7.com>
Message-ID: <434A9506.6080907@7power7.com>

Geee..that was quick!
Thanks a lot Xavier and Mark
Alcy






From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Oct 10 12:22:43 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:22:43 +0200
Subject: 2.6.1 Release
In-Reply-To: <20051010153834.C12CE824F2C@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051010153834.C12CE824F2C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <64B0A70D-B6E6-4F3B-84F8-9DA51019F5F7@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Xavier,

Switch to Mac OS X.
You will get more: 2.6.6!
(true)

Le 10 oct. 05 ? 18:07, MisterX a ?crit :

> funny, I typed the version and it says 2.6.5...

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Oct 10 12:25:44 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:25:44 +0200
Subject: 2.6.1 Release
In-Reply-To: <64B0A70D-B6E6-4F3B-84F8-9DA51019F5F7@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <20051010153834.C12CE824F2C@mail.runrev.com>
	<64B0A70D-B6E6-4F3B-84F8-9DA51019F5F7@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <6E176807-BF98-4A62-B0CF-968E74D7E2C4@sosmartsoftware.com>

Re,

The engine seems to be 2.6.5 on Windows and 2.6.6 on Mac OS X.
But revAppVersion() returns 2.6.1...

Le 10 oct. 05 ? 18:22, Eric Chatonet a ?crit :

> Hi Xavier,
>
> Switch to Mac OS X.
> You will get more: 2.6.6!
> (true)
>
> Le 10 oct. 05 ? 18:07, MisterX a ?crit :
>
>
>> funny, I typed the version and it says 2.6.5...

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Oct 10 12:30:24 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:30:24 -0700
Subject: 2.6.1 Release
In-Reply-To: <1128960078.17795.311.camel@rachmaninov>
References: <1128960078.17795.311.camel@rachmaninov>
Message-ID: <434A9720.70900@fourthworld.com>

Mark Waddingham wrote:
> This is just a quick note to let you know that Revolution 2.6.1 is now
> available for download from the usual place:
>   http://downloads.runrev.com

When will the engines at 
<ftp://ftp.runrev.com/pub/revolution/downloads/engines/> be updated?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  __________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Oct 10 12:34:33 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:34:33 +0200
Subject: 2.6.1 Release
In-Reply-To: <64B0A70D-B6E6-4F3B-84F8-9DA51019F5F7@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <20051010160536.02594824941@mail.runrev.com>

i updated and now it says 266!


  _____  

From: Eric Chatonet [mailto:eric] 
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 6:23 PM
To: x; How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: 2.6.1 Release


Hi Xavier, 

Switch to Mac OS X.
You will get more: 2.6.6!
(true)

Le 10 oct. 05 ? 18:07, MisterX a ?crit :


funny, I typed the version and it says 2.6.5...


Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software
 
For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Oct 10 12:36:49 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:36:49 +0200
Subject: 2.6.1 Release
In-Reply-To: <6E176807-BF98-4A62-B0CF-968E74D7E2C4@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <20051010160758.D8D33824941@mail.runrev.com>

aha! the MC version is 266,
 
the rev version is 2.6 in the old version
and 2.6.1 in the new one!

thanks for the revTip()

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Eric Chatonet
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 6:26 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: 2.6.1 Release
> 
> Re,
> 
> The engine seems to be 2.6.5 on Windows and 2.6.6 on Mac OS X.
> But revAppVersion() returns 2.6.1...
> 
> Le 10 oct. 05 ? 18:22, Eric Chatonet a ?crit :
> 
> > Hi Xavier,
> >
> > Switch to Mac OS X.
> > You will get more: 2.6.6!
> > (true)
> >
> > Le 10 oct. 05 ? 18:07, MisterX a ?crit :
> >
> >
> >> funny, I typed the version and it says 2.6.5...
> 
> Best Regards from Paris,
> 
> Eric Chatonet.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> So Smart Software
> 
> For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order 
> applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
> 
> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Mon Oct 10 12:34:24 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:34:24 -0400
Subject: missing stacks
Message-ID: <BEE91A49-C6FE-4350-B237-C96D13771D9C@conncoll.edu>

Will someone remind me how to get the #@*! documentation and app- 
browser stacks back into view? (I had them on a second monitor, now  
not connected.) I know the set loc to screenloc trick -- but I can't  
remember what the actual stack names of those items are, or how to  
find out.

This is a moderately dumb thing in Rev (other multi-window apps deal  
with it OK) that can be more than moderately frustrating and  
confusing for a newcomer. And me, though I've been doing stuff with  
Rev for several months. Yes, it's an already reported bug.

Charles Hartman


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Oct 10 12:43:16 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:43:16 +0200
Subject: missing stacks
In-Reply-To: <BEE91A49-C6FE-4350-B237-C96D13771D9C@conncoll.edu>
References: <BEE91A49-C6FE-4350-B237-C96D13771D9C@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <786C18F2-1C64-456B-B48D-EA98CC7282D8@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Charles,

revApplicationOverview and revDocs

Le 10 oct. 05 ? 18:34, Charles Hartman a ?crit :

> Will someone remind me how to get the #@*! documentation and app- 
> browser stacks back into view? (I had them on a second monitor, now  
> not connected.) I know the set loc to screenloc trick -- but I  
> can't remember what the actual stack names of those items are, or  
> how to find out.
>
> This is a moderately dumb thing in Rev (other multi-window apps  
> deal with it OK) that can be more than moderately frustrating and  
> confusing for a newcomer. And me, though I've been doing stuff with  
> Rev for several months. Yes, it's an already reported bug.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Oct 10 12:49:01 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:49:01 +0200
Subject: missing stacks
In-Reply-To: <BEE91A49-C6FE-4350-B237-C96D13771D9C@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <20051010162004.B3403824D4A@mail.runrev.com>

Just type this in the message box

put the windows

copy the stack's name

set the topright of stack <paste here> to item 3 of the screenrect,item 2 of
the screenrect

Alternatively, you can use My window's manager named WinNO2... Option or
shift-click on one of the window controls (the eyes or the window) on top
after selecting the right stack in the list of windows... At least I was
working on that feature - but it shows you the coordinates, the visibility
of the window and it's mode as well... 

http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=157

The colors have been changed drastically...
You need GIM to resize it and drag it aroud in palette mode...

I need to work on that stack a little it seems...
I need more hands! ;)

cheers
Xavier 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Charles Hartman
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 6:34 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: missing stacks
> 
> Will someone remind me how to get the #@*! documentation and 
> app- browser stacks back into view? (I had them on a second 
> monitor, now not connected.) I know the set loc to screenloc 
> trick -- but I can't remember what the actual stack names of 
> those items are, or how to find out.
> 
> This is a moderately dumb thing in Rev (other multi-window 
> apps deal with it OK) that can be more than moderately 
> frustrating and confusing for a newcomer. And me, though I've 
> been doing stuff with Rev for several months. Yes, it's an 
> already reported bug.
> 
> Charles Hartman
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Mon Oct 10 12:48:41 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:48:41 -0400
Subject: printing bug
Message-ID: <1A730191-F804-4009-9DF8-DD7DB7C5EE75@conncoll.edu>

I just downloaded the new Dreamcard (whatever its number is!) and was  
able to see in nice clean form the bug I encountered when I first  
started using DC some months ago:

I bring up a Documentation topic and hit the Print button. (At least  
the button is no longer grayed out!) I get, NOT a print dialog, but a  
Page Setup dialog. It doesn't matter what I do in it. When I click  
OK, still no Print dialog, DC just starts printing -- in this case,  
to the printer I was last using, which happens to be 27 miles away.  
No way to switch, that I can see, except to go into some other app,  
print something on the current printer, then come back.

Charles Hartman



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Mon Oct 10 12:49:55 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:49:55 -0400
Subject: missing stacks
In-Reply-To: <786C18F2-1C64-456B-B48D-EA98CC7282D8@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <BEE91A49-C6FE-4350-B237-C96D13771D9C@conncoll.edu>
	<786C18F2-1C64-456B-B48D-EA98CC7282D8@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <02D156E0-008B-4B87-A8C4-C9C1A1A115EE@conncoll.edu>

Thanks Eric. That does it.

On Oct 10, 2005, at 12:43 PM, Eric Chatonet wrote:

> Hi Charles,
>
> revApplicationOverview and revDocs
>
> Le 10 oct. 05 ? 18:34, Charles Hartman a ?crit :
>
>
>> Will someone remind me how to get the #@*! documentation and app- 
>> browser stacks back into view? (I had them on a second monitor,  
>> now not connected.) I know the set loc to screenloc trick -- but I  
>> can't remember what the actual stack names of those items are, or  
>> how to find out.
>>
>> This is a moderately dumb thing in Rev (other multi-window apps  
>> deal with it OK) that can be more than moderately frustrating and  
>> confusing for a newcomer. And me, though I've been doing stuff  
>> with Rev for several months. Yes, it's an already reported bug.
>>
>
> Best Regards from Paris,
>
> Eric Chatonet.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> So Smart Software
>
> For institutions, companies and associations
> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Mon Oct 10 12:51:47 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:51:47 -0400
Subject: missing stacks
In-Reply-To: <20051010162004.B3403824D4A@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051010162004.B3403824D4A@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <A1C55E25-6FD0-4958-BC47-39858F1C3DFD@conncoll.edu>

Should have mentioned I'm using OSX. But thanks for "put the windows"  
-- I didn't think of that.

Charles Hartman

On Oct 10, 2005, at 12:49 PM, MisterX wrote:

> Just type this in the message box
>
> put the windows
>
> copy the stack's name
>
> set the topright of stack <paste here> to item 3 of the  
> screenrect,item 2 of
> the screenrect
>
> Alternatively, you can use My window's manager named WinNO2...  
> Option or
> shift-click on one of the window controls (the eyes or the window)  
> on top
> after selecting the right stack in the list of windows... At least  
> I was
> working on that feature - but it shows you the coordinates, the  
> visibility
> of the window and it's mode as well...
>
> http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=157
>
> The colors have been changed drastically...
> You need GIM to resize it and drag it aroud in palette mode...
>
> I need to work on that stack a little it seems...
> I need more hands! ;)
>
> cheers
> Xavier
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>> Charles Hartman
>> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 6:34 PM
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: missing stacks
>>
>> Will someone remind me how to get the #@*! documentation and
>> app- browser stacks back into view? (I had them on a second
>> monitor, now not connected.) I know the set loc to screenloc
>> trick -- but I can't remember what the actual stack names of
>> those items are, or how to find out.
>>
>> This is a moderately dumb thing in Rev (other multi-window
>> apps deal with it OK) that can be more than moderately
>> frustrating and confusing for a newcomer. And me, though I've
>> been doing stuff with Rev for several months. Yes, it's an
>> already reported bug.
>>
>> Charles Hartman
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
>> your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From mark at maseurope.net  Mon Oct 10 12:55:49 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:55:49 +0100
Subject: 2.6.1,2,3,4,5,6
Message-ID: <14DFB82D-0DDA-48DE-9BC4-2A7F88A5AAF5@maseurope.net>

Hurray! The long popups bug is squashed like a, well, bug. Hurray!

Mark


From userev at canelasoftware.com  Mon Oct 10 13:41:52 2005
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:41:52 -0700
Subject: Playing audio clips
In-Reply-To: <p0623091bbf70372d47cc@[69.85.158.21]>
References: <20051010111622.92214824DEA@mail.runrev.com>
	<p0623091bbf70372d47cc@[69.85.158.21]>
Message-ID: <3F18C286-563B-462E-88E1-8292D4DC2FFF@canelasoftware.com>


On Oct 10, 2005, at 8:23 AM, Jim Hurley wrote:

> As far as I can make out  from the documentation one can only   
> start (from the  beginning) and stop an audio clip. It is not  
> possible to pause,  resume or control the speed.
>
> Did I get this right?
>

Jim,

If you use a player control to handle the audio, you can do all of  
the above.


Mark Talluto
-- 
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From mpease at lawandpolitics.com  Mon Oct 10 14:54:26 2005
From: mpease at lawandpolitics.com (Michael)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:54:26 -0700
Subject: Database or large text file processing?? - dreamhost
In-Reply-To: <20051010155949.BC48B824F85@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BF7006F2.C9FC%mpease@lawandpolitics.com>

Hi Stephen:

I just discovered Trevor DeVore's excellent libDatabase 2, and have been
trying to use it on my dreamhost site with MySQL. However, I am never able
to connect directly to MySQL with Rev, only by using the PHPmyAdmin browser
interface.

Do you know if it is even possible to connect to MySQL directly with Rev on
a dreamhost hosted domain site (which is not on a dedicated machine)
remotely?

Thanks,

Michael



On 10/10/05 8:59 AM, " Stephen Barncard "
<use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Many ISPs offer MySQL and other databases that are
> included with web service (PLUG: Dreamhost).

-- 
mp




From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Oct 10 15:11:22 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:11:22 -0700
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
Message-ID: <0AC7EE5C-A453-44F8-BF93-8F90178E7276@danshafer.com>

Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox newsletter today is about the new "results  
oriented user experience" being developed by Microsoft for its  
bloated Office product line.

I provide my thoughts and links at http://www.eclecticity.com/. 
3c65da4c in case anyone cares or wants to discuss it there.

It looks to me at first blush like Microsoft gets this one close to  
right. Quite nice.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Oct 10 15:17:50 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:17:50 -0700
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <0AC7EE5C-A453-44F8-BF93-8F90178E7276@danshafer.com>
References: <0AC7EE5C-A453-44F8-BF93-8F90178E7276@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <434ABE5E.7020703@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:
> Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox newsletter today is about the new "results  
> oriented user experience" being developed by Microsoft for its  bloated 
> Office product line.
> 
> I provide my thoughts and links at http://www.eclecticity.com/. 3c65da4c 
> in case anyone cares or wants to discuss it there.
> 
> It looks to me at first blush like Microsoft gets this one close to  
> right. Quite nice.

Excellent link, and excellent commentary. Thanks for posting that.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Mon Oct 10 15:42:41 2005
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:42:41 +0200
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
References: <0AC7EE5C-A453-44F8-BF93-8F90178E7276@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <434AC42A.653AD154@Club-Internet.fr>



Dan ,

> Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox newsletter today is about the new "results
> oriented user experience" being developed by Microsoft for its
> bloated Office product line.
>
> I provide my thoughts and links at http://www.eclecticity.com/.
> 3c65da4c in case anyone cares or wants to discuss it there.
>

Here's a quote from J. Nielsen's article (BTW the link you provide
on your blog is wrong) :
"The new interface displays galleries of possible end-states, each of which combine many
formatting operations. From this gallery, you select the complete look of your target -- say
an org chart or an entire document -- and watch it change shape as you mouse over the
alternatives in the gallery. The interaction paradigm has been reversed; it's now What You
Get Is What You See, or WYGIWYS."

and my first reaction to this is : God ! this is one of most scary
things I ever came across !
It might not be so important in case of a letter or a spreadsheet,
but in general it means that users we'll have to chose from a set
of PRE-DEFINED shapes... and who will pre-design those ?
Microsoft ? Yikes !!!!
Now we have WYGIWWAYTCF (what you get is what we allow
you to choose from)...

and furthermore, what if you want to design something totally
new from scratch ?

I might be overreacting a bit, but I'm sure there are plenty of
different & more promising directions to explore for future UIs...

JB



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Oct 10 15:49:36 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:49:36 -0700
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <434AC42A.653AD154@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <BF7013E0.22787%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, jbv  wrote:

> Here's a quote from J. Nielsen's article (BTW the link you provide
> on your blog is wrong) :
> "The new interface displays galleries of possible end-states, each of which
> combine many
> formatting operations. From this gallery, you select the complete look of your
> target -- say
> an org chart or an entire document -- and watch it change shape as you mouse
> over the
> alternatives in the gallery. The interaction paradigm has been reversed; it's
> now What You
> Get Is What You See, or WYGIWYS."
> 
> and my first reaction to this is : God ! this is one of most scary
> things I ever came across !
> It might not be so important in case of a letter or a spreadsheet,
> but in general it means that users we'll have to chose from a set
> of PRE-DEFINED shapes... and who will pre-design those ?
> Microsoft ? Yikes !!!!
> Now we have WYGIWWAYTCF (what you get is what we allow
> you to choose from)...

I believe the point of the article is that, according to user testing, the
majority of people prefer to edit an existing layout, rather than creating
one from scratch.  Yes, MS is providing a set of layouts/templates for you
to choose from.  Nowhere does it say anything about eliminating your ability
to create from scratch if you wish.

You may also want to read the MS link cited.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From rev at armbase.com  Mon Oct 10 16:03:23 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:03:23 +0100
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
Message-ID: <gemini.io5udm004u9fb02ic.rev@armbase.com>

On 10/10/2005 20:42:41, jbv.silences at club-internet.fr wrote:
> Dan ,
> 
> > Jakob
> Nielsen's Alertbox newsletter today is about the new "results
> > oriented user experience" being developed by Microsoft for its
> > bloated Office product line.
> >
> > I provide my thoughts and links at http://www.eclecticity.com/.
> > 3c65da4c in case anyone cares or wants to discuss it there.
> >
> 
> Here's
> a quote from J.
> Nielsen's article (BTW the link you provide
> on your blog is wrong) :
> "The new interface displays galleries of possible end-states, each of
which combine many
> formatting operations. From this gallery, you select the complete look of
your target -- say
> an org chart or an entire document -- and watch it change shape as you
mouse over the
> alternatives in the gallery. The interaction paradigm has been reversed;
it's
> now What You
> Get Is What You See, or WYGIWYS."

Yep and I'm still waiting for go.microsoft.com to load.
Hey give me good old RISC OS where everything worked the way YOU wanted it
to. The one thing that I really miss and have not encountered anywhere else
is separation of the cursor and  mouse between different apps.

IE you have one app that has the cursor in it but another app with the
window focus that is reacting to mouseclicks.
You then could have one app reacting to mouseclicks that controlled the
other eg text and image entry. Ohhh I could go on and on, but that has been
the case since 1991? :-)

Cheers
Bob  


From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Oct 10 16:12:51 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:12:51 -0400
Subject: 2.6.1 Release
In-Reply-To: <1128960078.17795.311.camel@rachmaninov>
References: <1128960078.17795.311.camel@rachmaninov>
Message-ID: <c7d9cbc59fc7e64da3207a02900f61eb@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 10, 2005, at 12:01 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote:

> This is just a quick note to let you know that Revolution 2.6.1 is now
> available for download from the usual place:
>   http://downloads.runrev.com

Anyone know if there is a Release Notes document for 2.6.1? Being 
underway in a project, I don't want to update without a compelling 
reason ? 2.6 is working pretty well.

Thanks.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Mon Oct 10 16:29:57 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 13:29:57 -0700
Subject: 2.6.1 Release
In-Reply-To: <c7d9cbc59fc7e64da3207a02900f61eb@rpsystems.net>
References: <1128960078.17795.311.camel@rachmaninov>
	<c7d9cbc59fc7e64da3207a02900f61eb@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <p06230909bf707f1ab854@[192.168.1.103]>

The bug fix release 2.6.1 of the engine has a lot of fixes that will 
make many people smile.

Download the new version package and read the text file "Change_Log_2.6.1.txt
(I don't know if I'm allowed to reveal the contents here...)


>On Oct 10, 2005, at 12:01 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote:
>
>>This is just a quick note to let you know that Revolution 2.6.1 is now
>>available for download from the usual place:
>>   http://downloads.runrev.com
>
>Anyone know if there is a Release Notes document for 2.6.1? Being 
>underway in a project, I don't want to update without a compelling 
>reason - 2.6 is working pretty well.
>
>Thanks.
>--
>Troy
>RPSystems, Ltd.
>http://www.rpsystems.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Oct 10 17:01:17 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:01:17 -0700
Subject: 2.6.1 Release
In-Reply-To: <c7d9cbc59fc7e64da3207a02900f61eb@rpsystems.net>
References: <1128960078.17795.311.camel@rachmaninov>
	<c7d9cbc59fc7e64da3207a02900f61eb@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <A22FCCF0-E889-40B2-9AFA-F8F087408F06@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 10, 2005, at 1:12 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:
>
> Anyone know if there is a Release Notes document for 2.6.1? Being  
> underway in a project, I don't want to update without a compelling  
> reason ? 2.6 is working pretty well.

A very detailed Change log is included with the release.  Just look  
in the Revolution folder after downloading.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 17:15:55 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 07:15:55 +1000
Subject: Newbie question
In-Reply-To: <a0611040bbf70243fcb9c@141.89.100.174>
References: <20.4eeffabe.307aa8aa@aol.com>
	<a0611040bbf70243fcb9c@141.89.100.174>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510101415p63605ec7uf332f9cb9cd31bba@mail.gmail.com>

> >Is there something I can put in a script that'll stop it there and display
> >the script editing window at that point?
> >
> >Joe
> >Orlando, Florida
>
> If you want to enter the script editor (as opposed to debugging):
>
> edit the script of me
> edit the script of this cd
> etc
>

After the "edit this script" line, you will want to put a line saying
"exit to top" so that the rest of the script does not get run.

Sarah


From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Oct 10 17:28:09 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:28:09 -0400
Subject: 2.6.1 Release
In-Reply-To: <A22FCCF0-E889-40B2-9AFA-F8F087408F06@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <1128960078.17795.311.camel@rachmaninov>
	<c7d9cbc59fc7e64da3207a02900f61eb@rpsystems.net>
	<A22FCCF0-E889-40B2-9AFA-F8F087408F06@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <33755ab7018ab0dfa8aec53868df093e@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 10, 2005, at 5:01 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

>> Anyone know if there is a Release Notes document for 2.6.1? Being 
>> underway in a project, I don't want to update without a compelling 
>> reason ? 2.6 is working pretty well.
>
> A very detailed Change log is included with the release.  Just look in 
> the Revolution folder after downloading.

Got it, thanks. Yes, and it looks like an excellent update ? probably 
even worth rolling my current project into.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Oct 10 17:28:33 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:28:33 -0700
Subject: Undocumented goodie in v2.6.1
Message-ID: <434ADD01.3000400@fourthworld.com>

I didn't find mention of this in the changelog, but Mark Waddingham 
mentioned he would address this and I just confirmed it in XP:

The blend ink can now be used on graphics and buttons on both Mac and 
Windows. In previous versions you could only use the blend ink for those 
objects on Mac.

At the Monterey conference Mark and Kevin made a strong pitch for 
feature completetion, items which are working as described but could 
benefit from enhancement to make the product easier to learn, easier to 
use, and/or reduce the differences between platforms.

I have an immediate use for this one, and it's rewarding to see them 
moving forward well with their feature completion initiative (not to 
mention a really large number of bug fixes folks have been asking for).

Hats off!

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Mon Oct 10 18:09:59 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:09:59 -0700
Subject: Scale to fit
Message-ID: <BF7034C7.384FE%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Hello

I have an image on a card and would like to scale it to fit in a button
dynamically.

In other words as the button gets bigger the icon should until it reaches
its actual size.

I can handle the button getting bigger, but I have no idea how to accomplish
making the icon scale.

Anybody have any examples?

Thanks

Todd





-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From userev at canelasoftware.com  Mon Oct 10 18:24:58 2005
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:24:58 -0700
Subject: Undocumented goodie in v2.6.1
In-Reply-To: <434ADD01.3000400@fourthworld.com>
References: <434ADD01.3000400@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <76C0AA2A-94D6-4020-80A1-A50CFE8ADCA6@canelasoftware.com>


On Oct 10, 2005, at 2:28 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I have an immediate use for this one, and it's rewarding to see  
> them moving forward well with their feature completion initiative  
> (not to mention a really large number of bug fixes folks have been  
> asking for).
>
> Hats off!


Cheers indeed!  Job well done!


Mark Talluto
-- 
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Mon Oct 10 18:26:18 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 23:26:18 +0100
Subject: Scale to fit
In-Reply-To: <BF7034C7.384FE%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
References: <BF7034C7.384FE%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <a05210602bf7099fd6229@[192.168.0.100]>

I dont think you can do it with an Icon, but you can do it using an 
image object, you can do something like this:

set the filename of image "x" to theFullPathNameOfFile

This will load the image and scale it to fit the rectangle of the image.

To rescale, just set a new rect as in:

put 100,100,300,400 into myRect
set the rect of image "X" to myRect

If you enable geometry on the image object,  it will rescale as the 
window gets bigger/smaller.

Hope this helps
All the Best
Dave


>Hello
>
>I have an image on a card and would like to scale it to fit in a button
>dynamically.
>
>In other words as the button gets bigger the icon should until it reaches
>its actual size.
>
>I can handle the button getting bigger, but I have no idea how to accomplish
>making the icon scale.
>
>Anybody have any examples?
>
>Thanks
>
>Todd
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>
>Todd Geist
>______________________________________
>g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From harvey.toyama at qlogic.com  Mon Oct 10 19:04:42 2005
From: harvey.toyama at qlogic.com (Harvey Toyama)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:04:42 -0700
Subject: Regex help, please
Message-ID: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F8019F8931@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>

Hi,

I have a log file to parse. The data looks like this:

 

                                                      Chip_Test:

  2   1075.7  R120<-7000h                    00020000         mov
HifRegs

  2   1088.1  R14<-7000h                     00020002         mov
HifRegs

  6   1100.5  [7020h]<-1h                    00020004         mov
RSTS_Busy

 

I do not want to capture the line with "Chip_Test:". I know the third
character will always be a single digit number. I have a feeble
knowledge of Regex from casual Unix use. I thought something like this
would work

 

            put line vLineCounter into vLineBuffer

            if char 3 of vLineBuffer = "[0-9]" then

            ...

 

But I never get a hit. If I substitute "6" for "[0-9]" I do get all the
lines beginning with "6". 



Help, please.

 

-- Harvey

-- 

Harvey Toyama

QLogic Corporation

949-389-7601

 



From mark at maseurope.net  Mon Oct 10 19:18:41 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 00:18:41 +0100
Subject: Regex help, please
In-Reply-To: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F8019F8931@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>
References: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F8019F8931@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>
Message-ID: <B82AE4CE-DD3F-44CB-AE7C-924EB9A348D8@maseurope.net>

Not regex, but how about

if word 1 of  vLineBuffer < 10 then....


Mark

On 11 Oct 2005, at 00:04, Harvey Toyama wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a log file to parse. The data looks like this:
>
>
>
>                                                       Chip_Test:
>
>   2   1075.7  R120<-7000h                    00020000         mov
> HifRegs
>
>   2   1088.1  R14<-7000h                     00020002         mov
> HifRegs
>
>   6   1100.5  [7020h]<-1h                    00020004         mov
> RSTS_Busy
>
>
>
> I do not want to capture the line with "Chip_Test:". I know the third
> character will always be a single digit number. I have a feeble
> knowledge of Regex from casual Unix use. I thought something like this
> would work
>
>
>
>             put line vLineCounter into vLineBuffer
>
>             if char 3 of vLineBuffer = "[0-9]" then
>
>             ...
>
>
>
> But I never get a hit. If I substitute "6" for "[0-9]" I do get all  
> the
> lines beginning with "6".
>
>
>
> Help, please.
>
>
>
> -- Harvey
>
> -- 
>
> Harvey Toyama
>
> QLogic Corporation
>
> 949-389-7601
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Mon Oct 10 19:26:54 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 00:26:54 +0100
Subject: Regex help, please
In-Reply-To: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F8019F8931@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>
References: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F8019F8931@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>
Message-ID: <38DCF5B9-8610-4D5B-BD18-E98840E2023C@lacscentre.co.uk>

On 11 Oct 2005, at 00:04, Harvey Toyama wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a log file to parse. The data looks like this:
>
>                                                       Chip_Test:
>
>   2   1075.7  R120<-7000h                    00020000         mov
> HifRegs
>   2   1088.1  R14<-7000h                     00020002         mov
> HifRegs
>   6   1100.5  [7020h]<-1h                    00020004         mov
> RSTS_Busy
>
>
> I do not want to capture the line with "Chip_Test:". I know the third
> character will always be a single digit number. I have a feeble
> knowledge of Regex from casual Unix use. I thought something like this
> would work
>
>             put line vLineCounter into vLineBuffer
>             if char 3 of vLineBuffer = "[0-9]" then
>             ...


regEx in Rev is only used in the MatchText and ReplaceText functions.

You could do this:

   if char 3 of vLineBuffer is a number then

But you're missing something in the first line. Assuming vLineCounter  
is a number, and the data to parse is in a variable named vData, then  
you need something like this:

   put line vLineCounter of vData into vLineBuffer


If you're parsing through all the lines in the file, and if it's  
long, you'll find that the expression "line vLineCounter of vData"  
takes longer to evaluate as the value of vLineCounter gets higher. In  
that case, the "repeat for each" format would be a lot faster.  
Something like:

   repeat for each line vLine in vData
     if char 3 of vLine is a number then
     -- your stuff
     end if
   end repeat

Cheers
Dave


From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Mon Oct 10 19:29:17 2005
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (ron barber)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:29:17 +0900
Subject: Unicode Users Unite
In-Reply-To: <922D0BAD-CD57-4240-9DC3-6B48D5FE0B37@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <FA2D9F2C-05FD-4645-9DBF-9C2CAC1EAD79@wanadoo.fr>
	<922D0BAD-CD57-4240-9DC3-6B48D5FE0B37@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <1e5c7075fe0ac75a366f29d009cd1321@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Greetings,
Its great to get 2.6.1 with its many bug fixes and some enhancements. 
If you use unicode in Rev then you know that it is also an area that 
could use some focused attention. I have listed below the outstanding 
bugs from Bugzilla. We all know that these are not the sum of all bugs 
concerning unicode. Some were reported multiple times and some are not 
listed at all. Let's let Rev know what they need to do to get Unicode 
really usable and robust so that we, and they, can reach markets 
outside the US.
Here's my suggestion. Look for bugs. If you find a bug, run it by the 
list first. This may suggest a temporary work around but it will also 
look for confirmation and prevent duplication. If it is a bug, put it 
in Bugzilla and list it under the Unicode and Localization component  
and use 'Unicode' in the description. This makes it easier to compile a 
list of outstanding issues.
Let's help Rev make unicode a usable feature and open up some new 
markets.

Thanks
Ron


2874        	PC   	   	UNCO     Japanese Keyboard Layout not Honored - 
As stated but is it only applicable to Japanese or other keyboard 
layouts as well?

2998 	   	Mac 	   	UNCO     Chunk expressions in Unicode - Unicode text 
  cannot be handled by most of the chunk rendering expressions

3022 	   	Mac       	UNCO     Arabic Unicode text improperly rendered 
in fields - adding ",unicode" to the font property can cause the brace 
to be cut off. It changes the size of the characters without adding 
more room

3023 	   	All   	   	UNCO     Handling of right to left languages in 
Unicode is inadequate - As stated

674  	   	All   	     	NEW     Support for unicode or UTF8 path names - 
As stated

1955 	   	Mac 	    	NEW     RevPrintText/Field does not work with 
Unicodetext - As stated

2377 	   	Mac 	     	NEW     Allow unicode Transcript scripts. - 
Certain unicode chars cannot be entered into the script wd

2378 	   	Mac 	   	NEW     Cannot enable/disable Unicode menus/items 
via script - MenuMaker fails as well but cannot use enable/disable 
commands on unicode menus/items

2489 	   	Mac 	   	NEW     Unicode combining marks often fail - If 
there are only ASCII characters in front if the one to be modified, 
then the modification does not work.

2493 	   	Mac 	   	NEW     Unicode chars are sometimes taken from the 
wrong font
2497 	   	Mac 	   	NEW     Problem setting certain unicode htmlText
502  	   	Mac 	  	DUPL 	unicode does not know what an A is - All three 
of these are the same: specifying somefont,unicode does not always use 
somefont to render as unicode on OSX

2646 	   	Mac 	   	NEW     Unicode the files and the folders on Mac OSX 
- SpecialFolderPath("Desktop") call does not work on Mac

3143 	   	Mac 	   	NEW     "Preferences..." of MacOSX Unicode menubar - 
This only displays in English



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 19:36:43 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 09:36:43 +1000
Subject: Regex help, please
In-Reply-To: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F8019F8931@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>
References: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F8019F8931@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510101636v4dd62b70k390dc29008c77a03@mail.gmail.com>

> I have a log file to parse. The data looks like this:
>
>
>
>                                                       Chip_Test:
>
>   2   1075.7  R120<-7000h                    00020000         mov
> HifRegs
>
>   2   1088.1  R14<-7000h                     00020002         mov
> HifRegs
>
>   6   1100.5  [7020h]<-1h                    00020004         mov
> RSTS_Busy
>

Untested, but how about something like this:

filter tLogData with "??[0-9]*"

Cheers,
Sarah


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Oct 10 19:37:40 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:37:40 -0700
Subject: Unicode Users Unite
In-Reply-To: <1e5c7075fe0ac75a366f29d009cd1321@yhb.att.ne.jp>
References: <FA2D9F2C-05FD-4645-9DBF-9C2CAC1EAD79@wanadoo.fr>
	<922D0BAD-CD57-4240-9DC3-6B48D5FE0B37@mangomultimedia.com>
	<1e5c7075fe0ac75a366f29d009cd1321@yhb.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <9D753AA9-4750-46EB-B442-C54D42B15619@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 10, 2005, at 4:29 PM, ron barber wrote:

> Greetings,
> Its great to get 2.6.1 with its many bug fixes and some  
> enhancements. If you use unicode in Rev then you know that it is  
> also an area that could use some focused attention. I have listed  
> below the outstanding bugs from Bugzilla. We all know that these  
> are not the sum of all bugs concerning unicode. Some were reported  
> multiple times and some are not listed at all. Let's let Rev know  
> what they need to do to get Unicode really usable and robust so  
> that we, and they, can reach markets outside the US.
> Here's my suggestion. Look for bugs. If you find a bug, run it by  
> the list first. This may suggest a temporary work around but it  
> will also look for confirmation and prevent duplication. If it is a  
> bug, put it in Bugzilla and list it under the Unicode and  
> Localization component  and use 'Unicode' in the description. This  
> makes it easier to compile a list of outstanding issues.
> Let's help Rev make unicode a usable feature and open up some new  
> markets.

Ron,

I agree that Unicode is something which needs some attention soon.  I  
am in the beginning stages of moving an application over to Unicode  
as we are adding Chinese, Japanese, Russian, Korean, etc. to the  
app.  There are still lots of holes in the Unicode support that make  
it very difficult.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Oct 10 19:43:53 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:43:53 -0700
Subject: Unicode Users Unite
In-Reply-To: <9D753AA9-4750-46EB-B442-C54D42B15619@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <FA2D9F2C-05FD-4645-9DBF-9C2CAC1EAD79@wanadoo.fr>	<922D0BAD-CD57-4240-9DC3-6B48D5FE0B37@mangomultimedia.com>	<1e5c7075fe0ac75a366f29d009cd1321@yhb.att.ne.jp>
	<9D753AA9-4750-46EB-B442-C54D42B15619@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <434AFCB9.2050709@fourthworld.com>

Trevor DeVore wrote:
> I agree that Unicode is something which needs some attention soon.  I  
> am in the beginning stages of moving an application over to Unicode  as 
> we are adding Chinese, Japanese, Russian, Korean, etc. to the  app.  
> There are still lots of holes in the Unicode support that make  it very 
> difficult.

I'll third that.  I've toss the max votes for all Unicode issues but 
I've only 100 and they're all committed.

Chunk expressions are at the top of my list.  It's what distinguishes 
Transcript from lesser languages. :)

If I need to write my own parsing routines much of the value of choosing 
Transcript goes away.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Oct 10 19:57:19 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:57:19 -0700
Subject: Unicode Users Unite
In-Reply-To: <434AFCB9.2050709@fourthworld.com>
References: <FA2D9F2C-05FD-4645-9DBF-9C2CAC1EAD79@wanadoo.fr>	<922D0BAD-CD57-4240-9DC3-6B48D5FE0B37@mangomultimedia.com>	<1e5c7075fe0ac75a366f29d009cd1321@yhb.att.ne.jp>
	<9D753AA9-4750-46EB-B442-C54D42B15619@mangomultimedia.com>
	<434AFCB9.2050709@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <FB723D62-7C44-4DFE-BBFF-8235487B1E8F@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 10, 2005, at 4:43 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
> I'll third that.  I've toss the max votes for all Unicode issues  
> but I've only 100 and they're all committed.
>
> Chunk expressions are at the top of my list.  It's what  
> distinguishes Transcript from lesser languages. :)
>
> If I need to write my own parsing routines much of the value of  
> choosing Transcript goes away.

The inability to use chunks is probably my biggest gripe right now  
(well, that and no Unicode file names).

I also wish it was easier to read a UTF16 files that have a different  
byte order than the OS you are running on.  It looks like you have to  
swap the bytes yourself in order to read the file.

Another thing is no UTF16 support in externals.  I'm pretty sure this  
is on the radar to fix but for externals like Valentina 2 you have to  
convert to/from UTF8 to get data between the external and the Rev  
environment.  This is less than efficient.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From harvey.toyama at qlogic.com  Mon Oct 10 20:05:43 2005
From: harvey.toyama at qlogic.com (Harvey Toyama)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:05:43 -0700
Subject: Regex help, please
Message-ID: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F8019F895A@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>

Hi Dave,
That worked well. Thank you.

Since the log file is > 500,000 lines long your second bit of advice was
even more helpful. I can't estimate how many orders of magnitude faster
it is without a line count running.

-- Harvey
-- 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Dave Cragg
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 4:27 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Regex help, please

On 11 Oct 2005, at 00:04, Harvey Toyama wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a log file to parse. The data looks like this:
>
>                                                       Chip_Test:
>
>   2   1075.7  R120<-7000h                    00020000         mov
> HifRegs
>   2   1088.1  R14<-7000h                     00020002         mov
> HifRegs
>   6   1100.5  [7020h]<-1h                    00020004         mov
> RSTS_Busy
>
>
> I do not want to capture the line with "Chip_Test:". I know the third
> character will always be a single digit number. I have a feeble
> knowledge of Regex from casual Unix use. I thought something like this
> would work
>
>             put line vLineCounter into vLineBuffer
>             if char 3 of vLineBuffer = "[0-9]" then
>             ...


regEx in Rev is only used in the MatchText and ReplaceText functions.

You could do this:

   if char 3 of vLineBuffer is a number then

But you're missing something in the first line. Assuming vLineCounter  
is a number, and the data to parse is in a variable named vData, then  
you need something like this:

   put line vLineCounter of vData into vLineBuffer


If you're parsing through all the lines in the file, and if it's  
long, you'll find that the expression "line vLineCounter of vData"  
takes longer to evaluate as the value of vLineCounter gets higher. In  
that case, the "repeat for each" format would be a lot faster.  
Something like:

   repeat for each line vLine in vData
     if char 3 of vLine is a number then
     -- your stuff
     end if
   end repeat

Cheers
Dave
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From harvey.toyama at qlogic.com  Mon Oct 10 20:14:38 2005
From: harvey.toyama at qlogic.com (Harvey Toyama)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:14:38 -0700
Subject: Regex help, please
Message-ID: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F8019F8964@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>

Hi Sarah,
That did work and it is even faster than using the "repeat for each".

For the record, on this 500,000+ line log file

1.  "repeat while vCtr <= vLen"	
	took more than a 20 minute coffee break (then I killed it)
2.  "repeat for each ... "
	took about 10 seconds
3.  filter ...
	took about the time for the mouse button to rise back up

Wow! 

-- Harvey
-- 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Sarah
Reichelt
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 4:37 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Regex help, please

> I have a log file to parse. The data looks like this:
>
>
>
>                                                       Chip_Test:
>
>   2   1075.7  R120<-7000h                    00020000         mov
> HifRegs
>
>   2   1088.1  R14<-7000h                     00020002         mov
> HifRegs
>
>   6   1100.5  [7020h]<-1h                    00020004         mov
> RSTS_Busy
>

Untested, but how about something like this:

filter tLogData with "??[0-9]*"

Cheers,
Sarah
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 10 20:15:58 2005
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:15:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Playing video clips: "mute" the visual, keep the audio?
In-Reply-To: <D4089442-7341-47AE-BCD7-CFABF37F159E@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <20051011001558.20523.qmail@web33014.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



--- Eric Chatonet
<eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com> wrote:

> Hi Klaus,
> 
> Unfortunately, play pause, resume, etc. only
> work with video clips  
> but not with audio clips:

can you "mute" the visual, keep the audio?

Erik Hansen

erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 10 20:26:14 2005
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:26:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Neural networking student: step throught the code
In-Reply-To: <433A298B.3060607@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20051011002615.47751.qmail@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



--- Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
wrote:

> In a quick Google for her name I stumbled
> across this item which may be worth a look:
> 
>
<http://web.informatik.uni-bonn.de/II/ag-klein/people/zach/benchmarks/NeuralNetTest.java>

>   Richard Gaskin
>   Managing Editor, revJournal

thanks, neural networking is fascinating
for its own sake.

erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Music Unlimited 
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/


From tjframe at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 20:29:07 2005
From: tjframe at gmail.com (TJ Frame)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:29:07 -0700
Subject: Undocumented goodie in v2.6.1
In-Reply-To: <76C0AA2A-94D6-4020-80A1-A50CFE8ADCA6@canelasoftware.com>
References: <434ADD01.3000400@fourthworld.com>
	<76C0AA2A-94D6-4020-80A1-A50CFE8ADCA6@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <7348a9e80510101729u6f9ba062qb7045f348c75c2c3@mail.gmail.com>

Thats rocks :) I'm pleasantly suprised to see that puppy implemented. Thanks
Run Rev team!
  Oh and the new ink option menu is nice too. But shouldn't the "blend"
option be moved to "All Platforms" now?
 I'm still waiting for the day when I can write: PrepareForPrint true
 on PrepareForPrint theMode
lock screen
 repeat for each line objID in gMyVectorGrcList
 set the antialiased of grc id objID to theMode
 end repeat
unlock screen
end PrepareForPrint
 That would be sweet...

 On 10/10/05, Mark Talluto <userev at canelasoftware.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Oct 10, 2005, at 2:28 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
> > I have an immediate use for this one, and it's rewarding to see
> > them moving forward well with their feature completion initiative
> > (not to mention a really large number of bug fixes folks have been
> > asking for).
> >
> > Hats off!
>
>
> Cheers indeed! Job well done!
>
>
> Mark Talluto
> --
> CANELA Software
> http://www.canelasoftware.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Mon Oct 10 20:31:10 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:31:10 -0400
Subject: field as menu?
Message-ID: <3A16F835-EFD1-4487-82B0-DA78EC0D9087@conncoll.edu>

I know this is totally basic -- but I can't remember how to use a  
scrolling list field as an ersatz menu. I'm thinking of a long list,  
user selects one item, action to edit that item ensues. Pulldown and  
popup are ergonomically less suitable than a scrolling list (holding  
down a mouse-button is bad, bad). But a list is a field not a button  
and has no menu style . . . Somebody pity the poor confused & remind  
me what to do in this situation?

Charles Hartman



From devin_asay at byu.edu  Mon Oct 10 21:09:52 2005
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:09:52 -0600
Subject: Unicode Users Unite
In-Reply-To: <434AFCB9.2050709@fourthworld.com>
References: <FA2D9F2C-05FD-4645-9DBF-9C2CAC1EAD79@wanadoo.fr>
	<922D0BAD-CD57-4240-9DC3-6B48D5FE0B37@mangomultimedia.com>
	<1e5c7075fe0ac75a366f29d009cd1321@yhb.att.ne.jp>
	<9D753AA9-4750-46EB-B442-C54D42B15619@mangomultimedia.com>
	<434AFCB9.2050709@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1CF6202E-B5E2-4181-BF72-F074670C5BE6@byu.edu>

On Oct 10, 2005, at 5:43 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Trevor DeVore wrote:
>
>> I agree that Unicode is something which needs some attention  
>> soon.  I  am in the beginning stages of moving an application over  
>> to Unicode  as we are adding Chinese, Japanese, Russian, Korean,  
>> etc. to the  app.  There are still lots of holes in the Unicode  
>> support that make  it very difficult.
>>
>
> I'll third that.  I've toss the max votes for all Unicode issues  
> but I've only 100 and they're all committed.

Everyone who has voted for bugs in the past: Don't forget to check  
the bugs you voted on. Declaring a bug fixed does not automatically  
return your votes to your unused pool. You have to remove them  
manually. With the release of 2.6.1 and its myriad bug fixes you may  
now have votes you can shift elsewhere.
>
> Chunk expressions are at the top of my list.  It's what  
> distinguishes Transcript from lesser languages. :)

Amen, brother!

> If I need to write my own parsing routines much of the value of  
> choosing Transcript goes away.

Indeed.

Devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University



From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Mon Oct 10 21:41:41 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:41:41 -0700
Subject: Scale to fit
In-Reply-To: <a05210602bf7099fd6229@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <BF706665.3855E%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Thanks!


On 10/10/05 3:26 PM, "David Burgun" <dburgun at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

> 
> put 100,100,300,400 into myRect
> set the rect of image "X" to myRect

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Oct 10 22:23:29 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:23:29 -0700
Subject: [Not Completely OT] Online Blackjack Hacked
Message-ID: <BF707031.227DE%scott@tactilemedia.com>

A not completely off topic post about an online version of BlackJack that
was hacked due to timing issues.

http://haacked.com/archive/2005/08/29/9748.aspx

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From dick.kriesel at mail.com  Mon Oct 10 23:24:59 2005
From: dick.kriesel at mail.com (Dick Kriesel)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:24:59 -0700
Subject: the inverse of the "owner" property
Message-ID: <BF707E9B.134BF%dick.kriesel@mail.com>

Here?s a virtual property that (I think) is the inverse of the ?owner?
property.  It has a strange name, based on the assertion that the opposite
of "owner" is "ownee."  Call it what you will...

The property works for me, but does anyone see trouble with it?

getProp ownees
  if first word of name of the target is "stack" then
    put the substacks of the target into tSubstacks
    if tSubstacks is empty then
      put the cardNames of the target into tOwnees
    else
      repeat for each line tSubstack in tSubstacks
        put the name of stack tSubstack & return after tOwnees
      end repeat
      put the cardNames of the target after tOwnees
    end if
  else
    put abbr id of the target into tOwner
    repeat with i = 1 to number of controls in tOwner
      if abbr id of the owner of control i of tOwner is tOwner then
        put name of control i of tOwner & return after tOwnees
      end if
    end repeat
    delete last char of tOwnees
  end if
  return tOwnees
end ownees

Thanks in advance for your consideration...

-- Dick




From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 23:59:16 2005
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:59:16 +0800
Subject: field as menu?
In-Reply-To: <3A16F835-EFD1-4487-82B0-DA78EC0D9087@conncoll.edu>
References: <3A16F835-EFD1-4487-82B0-DA78EC0D9087@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <f73a98160510102059r1b8caebeq4eed10d94f9f3294@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/11/05, Charles Hartman <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu> wrote:
>
> Pulldown and
> popup are ergonomically less suitable than a scrolling list (holding
> down a mouse-button is bad, bad).


Before you go down the route of a list field, on my Mac I don't have to hold
down the mouse-button for long 'option' buttons (really menus). If I give
the button a quick click it will pop up and stay open. All I then have to do
is move the mouse up or down and the 'options' will scroll automatically (no
clicking, no scripting required). Not like a list field that you have to
click/scroll up and down to find the selection you want.

I've just done a quick test and the same is true for pulldown, combo box and
pop-up.

Ergonomically I find the 'click-on-button; move-mouse-up/down;
click-on-selection very quick and easy to manipulate.
HTH
PS If you still want to go the List Field option just say so and I'll see
what I can find.


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Tue Oct 11 00:29:57 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:29:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <434AC42A.653AD154@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510102128430.2661-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

FWIW,

I've got Dan's blog loading while I post this response, but, if your
commentary is spot-on, then it is a scary thing... appropriately
in-season.

Judy

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, jbv wrote:

>
>
> Dan ,
> "The new interface displays galleries of possible end-states, each of which combine many
> formatting operations. From this gallery, you select the complete look of your target -- say
> an org chart or an entire document -- and watch it change shape as you mouse over the
> alternatives in the gallery. The interaction paradigm has been reversed; it's now What You
> Get Is What You See, or WYGIWYS."
>
> and my first reaction to this is : God ! this is one of most scary
> things I ever came across !
> It might not be so important in case of a letter or a spreadsheet,
> but in general it means that users we'll have to chose from a set
> of PRE-DEFINED shapes... and who will pre-design those ?
> Microsoft ? Yikes !!!!
> Now we have WYGIWWAYTCF (what you get is what we allow
> you to choose from)...



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Tue Oct 11 00:39:04 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:39:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <BF7013E0.22787%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510102130180.2661-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Sounds like even more 'Death by PowerPoint' ...

Of course users want to be told how things should look.

But your point is well taken re: reading the originals.

In case you might wonder why the knee-jerk reaction, I this term have ~30
upper-division university students (non-CS majors), and not a few of them:

(a) don't know what a search engine is;
(b) don't know the difference between an email addy and a URL;
(c) don't use anything other than what MS pre-loads on their computer;
(d) when given step-by-step instructions on using blogger, and told that
they need to click on the little orange arrow to post their blog, WHEN,
they don't see said little orange arrow, DON'T SCROLL DOWN TO LOOK FOR
IT!!!
(e) they were shocked when confronted with a quote from a MS executive,
something to the efeect that, with respect to Encarta and its errors, the
company considered it more important that the product be politically
palatable than accurate (!).

A report from in the trenches...

:(

Judy

 On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Scott Rossi wrote:

> I believe the point of the article is that, according to user testing, the
> majority of people prefer to edit an existing layout, rather than creating
> one from scratch.  Yes, MS is providing a set of layouts/templates for you
> to choose from.  Nowhere does it say anything about eliminating your ability
> to create from scratch if you wish.



From shaosean at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 11 00:52:50 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 00:52:50 -0400
Subject: [ANN] libGrowl 1.0.0
Message-ID: <BAY105-F269A7C3753F393383DC29CC3780@phx.gbl>

For anyone who is using Growl <www.growl.info> and wants to make their Mac 
OS X based RunRev programs work with Growl, there is a new library available 
to allow you to do so.

The only thing to be added in a future release is checking if the Growl 
Preference Pane is installed.

-Sean
http://www.shaosean.tk/  (let me apologize in advanced for the pop-up ad or 
pre-website ad)

_________________________________________________________________
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From revdan at danshafer.com  Tue Oct 11 00:54:05 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:54:05 -0700
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510102130180.2661-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510102130180.2661-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <BD775F0F-1F1D-4185-8AAE-3CEA2FEE2260@danshafer.com>

Lots of reasons to dislike Microsoft, to be sure, and to distrust  
them as well.

Still, I've been looking in greater depth at the new Office UI and  
thinking about it and I think that for most users who care about  
results -- the what and not the how -- this new approach to the user  
experience is going to be VERY well received even if it doesn't get  
everything quite right -- or even close.

I've ALWAYS detested cascading menus and in Office, there are a lot  
of things you can't do without them. I also not-infrequently pause  
and puzzle over which menu in a given menubar -- not just in Office  
but in lots of apps -- is likely to be hiding the choice I really  
want. With the new approach, functionality that users could logically  
be expected to look for in two or more places can just be placed on  
two or more of those palette thingies that appear when the user  
clicks on a command tab.

I really think that although there are certainly flaws in this  
design, the general approach is sensible and bold. I'm not delighted  
that it's Microsoft thinking but there's another aspect to it that I  
like: it's the *concept* of the command tab and the resultant  
revelation of a command panel that users will become used to, not so  
much the specific commands or elements contained in those panels or  
their appearance or arrangement. And I think that means there's lots  
of room to build on the MS concept.

ALso, it IS clear from the description that the old dialog box/sheet  
approach will still be available. I think the idea of having the  
document appearance change dynamically as you mouse over the icons  
for the design changes is a real coding challenge but could make  
users much less prone to making dumb design decisions.

All in all, I'm feeling surprisingly favorable toward it.

Of course, I still hate the company. Goes without saying, I suppose.


On Oct 10, 2005, at 9:39 PM, Judy Perry wrote:

> Sounds like even more 'Death by PowerPoint' ...
>
> Of course users want to be told how things should look.
>
> But your point is well taken re: reading the originals.
>


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Oct 11 01:02:32 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 07:02:32 +0200
Subject: Strange menuitem hilite issue
Message-ID: <20051011043327.9C055825047@mail.runrev.com>

For some reason when I can the following line from different objects than
the menu I get an error...

hilite menuitem 9 of menu "tools" 

but if I call it from the menu itself or the message box, it works...

can anyone confirm this? Existing or new bugzilla?

cheers
Xavier



From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Tue Oct 11 01:14:05 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:14:05 -0700
Subject: Scale to fit
In-Reply-To: <a05210602bf7099fd6229@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <BF70982D.38589%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Thanks for this tip

Now I want to go one step further. I want it to scale but to maintain it's
original proportions.  Is there an easy way to do that?


On 10/10/05 3:26 PM, "David Burgun" <dburgun at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

> To rescale, just set a new rect as in:
> 
> put 100,100,300,400 into myRect
> set the rect of image "X" to myRect

Thanks

Todd


-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Oct 11 01:16:22 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:16:22 -0700
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510102130180.2661-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <BF7098B6.22805%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Judy Perry  wrote:

> Of course users want to be told how things should look.

Actually, there is a difference: not how things *should* look but how things
*can* look.  Again, the premise is that users are more comfortable modifying
existing designs/layouts/templates, rather than starting from scratch.  The
template designers are giving users a starting point, which they can either
choose to use as is, or modify to their liking.


> In case you might wonder why the knee-jerk reaction, I this term have ~30
> upper-division university students (non-CS majors), and not a few of them:
> 
> (a) don't know what a search engine is;
> (b) don't know the difference between an email addy and a URL;
> (c) don't use anything other than what MS pre-loads on their computer;
> (d) when given step-by-step instructions on using blogger, and told that
> they need to click on the little orange arrow to post their blog, WHEN,
> they don't see said little orange arrow, DON'T SCROLL DOWN TO LOOK FOR
> IT!!!
> (e) they were shocked when confronted with a quote from a MS executive,
> something to the efeect that, with respect to Encarta and its errors, the
> company considered it more important that the product be politically
> palatable than accurate (!).
> 
> A report from in the trenches...

The way I read your comments, they appear to completely support the above
premise: users need a jump start that shows how things can look/work, not an
empty page.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Oct 11 01:21:56 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:21:56 -0700
Subject: Strange menuitem hilite issue
In-Reply-To: <20051011043327.9C055825047@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051011043327.9C055825047@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <434B4BF4.8030107@fourthworld.com>

MisterX wrote:
> For some reason when I can the following line from different objects than
> the menu I get an error...
> 
> hilite menuitem 9 of menu "tools" 

Hiliting is normally a visual inversion to indicate the item the mouse 
is over.

What result is expected when attempting to hilite a menu item in script 
for a menu that isn't being pulled down by the mouse?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Oct 11 01:30:31 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 07:30:31 +0200
Subject: Strange menuitem hilite issue
In-Reply-To: <434B4BF4.8030107@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20051011050128.8C827825000@mail.runrev.com>

Hi Richard

Good point. The revdocs don?t seem to say much in 
regards to hilite... But the hilite "menuitems" 
should clear the confusion shouldn't it? 

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Richard Gaskin
> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 7:22 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Strange menuitem hilite issue
> 
> MisterX wrote:
> > For some reason when I can the following line from 
> different objects 
> > than the menu I get an error...
> > 
> > hilite menuitem 9 of menu "tools" 
> 
> Hiliting is normally a visual inversion to indicate the item 
> the mouse is over.
> 
> What result is expected when attempting to hilite a menu item 
> in script for a menu that isn't being pulled down by the mouse?
> 
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Media Corporation
>   ___________________________________________________________
>   Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Oct 11 01:32:19 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 07:32:19 +0200
Subject: Scale to fit
In-Reply-To: <BF70982D.38589%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <20051011050313.B1AF5824FEF@mail.runrev.com>

grab the maximum of the images's width or height.

Get the ratio of W/H

Set the rect to it's new size and insure that the
maxima recorded before is set. Then use the ratio
to resize the other side (which was not the maximum).

that usually does it...

if you want a script, I can post one later tonite...

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Todd Geist
> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 7:14 AM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Scale to fit
> 
> Thanks for this tip
> 
> Now I want to go one step further. I want it to scale but to 
> maintain it's original proportions.  Is there an easy way to do that?
> 
> 
> On 10/10/05 3:26 PM, "David Burgun" <dburgun at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> 
> > To rescale, just set a new rect as in:
> > 
> > put 100,100,300,400 into myRect
> > set the rect of image "X" to myRect
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Todd
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Todd Geist
> ______________________________________
> g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Oct 11 01:30:19 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:30:19 -0700
Subject: Strange menuitem hilite issue
In-Reply-To: <20051011050128.8C827825000@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051011050128.8C827825000@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <434B4DEB.2060105@fourthworld.com>

MisterX wrote:
> Hi Richard
> 
> Good point. The revdocs don?t seem to say much in 
> regards to hilite... But the hilite "menuitems" 
> should clear the confusion shouldn't it? 

Maybe I'm just tired, but I can figure out what:

   hilite menuitem 9 of menu "tools"

...is supposed to do.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 11 02:07:15 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 01:07:15 -0500
Subject: QT version on Windows
In-Reply-To: <p06200704bf7025756408@[10.0.0.91]>
Message-ID: <BF70C0C3.2D694%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/10/05 9:13 AM, "sims" <sims at ezpzapps.com> wrote:

> Anyone know how to check for the QuickTime version on a Windows machine
> without using QTVersion?

Well, you can find it in the WIndows registry at:

  HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Apple Computer, Inc.\QuickTime\Version

But it is in binary; I've tried many forms of binaryDecode() and can't seem
to be able to extract it. Anyone else want to give it a go?


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 11 02:09:44 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 01:09:44 -0500
Subject: Scale to fit
In-Reply-To: <20051011050313.B1AF5824FEF@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BF70C158.2D696%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/11/05 12:32 AM, "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:

> grab the maximum of the images's width or height.
> 
> Get the ratio of W/H

Here you go:

function stsScaleObject pOrigW,pOrigH,pMaxW,pMaxH
  put pMaxW/pOrigW into tPctW
  put pMaxH/pOrigH into tPctH
  if tPctH < tPctW then
    put pOrigH * tPctH into tNewH
    put pOrigW * tPctH into tNewW
  else
    put pOrigH * tPctW into tNewH
    put pOrigW * tPctW into tNewW
  end if
  return round(tNewW),round(tNewH)
end stsScaleObject


Pass in the current width and height, along with the maximum width/height
you want it to scale to, and it will return the new width and height.

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Tue Oct 11 02:18:52 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:18:52 +0200
Subject: QT version on Windows
In-Reply-To: <BF70C0C3.2D694%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <OF44F4EA0F.7EA436F3-ONC1257097.0022887F-C1257097.00226E2A@deutsche-boerse.com>

Actually, it looks like it is written in hex as the version...

I have version 6.3 and the regedit key says 6308000

I guess there is no decoding, just an encoding in the wrong mode!...

cheers
Xavier 

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 11/10/2005 08:07:15:

> On 10/10/05 9:13 AM, "sims" <sims at ezpzapps.com> wrote:
> 
> > Anyone know how to check for the QuickTime version on a Windows 
machine
> > without using QTVersion?
> 
> Well, you can find it in the WIndows registry at:
> 
>   HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Apple Computer, Inc.\QuickTime\Version
> 
> But it is in binary; I've tried many forms of binaryDecode() and can't 
seem
> to be able to extract it. Anyone else want to give it a go?
> 
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
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International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
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prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
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END OF DISCLAIMER


From sims at ezpzapps.com  Tue Oct 11 03:43:29 2005
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 09:43:29 +0200
Subject: QT version on Windows
In-Reply-To: <BF70C0C3.2D694%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF70C0C3.2D694%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <p06200703bf711b952aa8@[10.0.0.93]>

At 1:07 AM -0500 10/11/05, Ken Ray wrote:
>On 10/10/05 9:13 AM, "sims" <sims at ezpzapps.com> wrote:
>
>>  Anyone know how to check for the QuickTime version on a Windows machine
>>  without using QTVersion?
>
>Well, you can find it in the WIndows registry at:
>
>   HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Apple Computer, Inc.\QuickTime\Version
>
>But it is in binary; I've tried many forms of binaryDecode() and can't seem
>to be able to extract it. Anyone else want to give it a go?

Thanks for the attempt Ken.

My videos are either QT 7 H.264 or wmv files, so I need to assign one 
or the other
(the QT 7 H.264 are outstanding and much smaller in size)

So, for now I've resorted to the following:

set the defaultFolder to "C:/Program Files/QuickTime/QTSystem"
put the files into tData
if "H264" is in tData then doStuff

If   H264 is not there I give them the wmv version.

It does seem a bit strange to have to load QT (QTVersions) in order to see what
version it is! Once you do that you are stuck!

Any comments on my hack of a work around are most appreciated.

ciao,
sims


From sims at ezpzapps.com  Tue Oct 11 04:17:16 2005
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:17:16 +0200
Subject: QT version on Windows
In-Reply-To: <OF44F4EA0F.7EA436F3-ONC1257097.0022887F-C1257097.00226E2A@deutsche-boerse
	.com>
References: <OF44F4EA0F.7EA436F3-ONC1257097.0022887F-C1257097.00226E2A@deutsche-boerse
	.com>
Message-ID: <p06200704bf712525687c@[10.0.0.93]>

At 8:18 AM +0200 10/11/05, xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:
>Actually, it looks like it is written in hex as the version...
>
>I have version 6.3 and the regedit key says 6308000

Xavier,

Would you please post the script that produces this for me to try?
binaryDecode() is getting me nowhere.

TIA

sims


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Tue Oct 11 04:23:24 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:23:24 +0200
Subject: QT version on Windows
In-Reply-To: <p06200703bf711b952aa8@[10.0.0.93]>
Message-ID: <OF990A344F.7C88DA44-ONC1257097.002CC1D2-C1257097.002DD4F3@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Sims,

Besides my previous tip, here's another... 

My quicktime app is never installed in C:\program files....!!!

To find where, look first at...
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Classes\quicktime\shell\open\command

And there's another key that's interesting for you - but it's not reliable 
(no xvid or divx which i have installed)
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Classes\QuickTime.aif  -- the AIF is the 
interesting bit which are the file types QT handles...


And there's a key in the registry that gives you also the installed 
codecs...
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows 
NT\CurrentVersion\drivers.desc
or
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Drivers32
but with this last one, unfortunately, you can't list the subkeys in a 
registry branch...

And i couldn't find any utility that could list the existing codecs. GSpot 
(free) tells you if you have the codec or not or what codec you need to 
play a file
but it's not exactly script friendly... I'll see if i find a vbs trick 
later...

cheers
Xavier


use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 11/10/2005 09:43:29:

> At 1:07 AM -0500 10/11/05, Ken Ray wrote:
> >On 10/10/05 9:13 AM, "sims" <sims at ezpzapps.com> wrote:
> >
> >>  Anyone know how to check for the QuickTime version on a Windows 
machine
> >>  without using QTVersion?
> >
> >Well, you can find it in the WIndows registry at:
> >
> >   HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Apple Computer, Inc.\QuickTime\Version
> >
> >But it is in binary; I've tried many forms of binaryDecode() and can't 
seem
> >to be able to extract it. Anyone else want to give it a go?
> 
> Thanks for the attempt Ken.
> 
> My videos are either QT 7 H.264 or wmv files, so I need to assign one 
> or the other
> (the QT 7 H.264 are outstanding and much smaller in size)
> 
> So, for now I've resorted to the following:
> 
> set the defaultFolder to "C:/Program Files/QuickTime/QTSystem"
> put the files into tData
> if "H264" is in tData then doStuff
> 
> If   H264 is not there I give them the wmv version.
> 
> It does seem a bit strange to have to load QT (QTVersions) in order 
> to see what
> version it is! Once you do that you are stuck!
> 
> Any comments on my hack of a work around are most appreciated.
> 
> ciao,
> sims
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

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International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From sims at ezpzapps.com  Tue Oct 11 04:32:56 2005
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:32:56 +0200
Subject: QT version on Windows
In-Reply-To: <OF990A344F.7C88DA44-ONC1257097.002CC1D2-C1257097.002DD4F3@deutsche-boerse
	.com>
References: <OF990A344F.7C88DA44-ONC1257097.002CC1D2-C1257097.002DD4F3@deutsche-boerse
	.com>
Message-ID: <p06200705bf7128a03926@[10.0.0.93]>

At 10:23 AM +0200 10/11/05, xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:
>My quicktime app is never installed in C:\program files....!!!

Xavier,

Do you have a folder named "QuickTime" in your "Program Files"?

If you go to "C:/Program Files/QuickTime/"  do you have a folder 
named "QTSystem"?

ciao,
sims



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Oct 11 04:41:30 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:41:30 +0200
Subject: Playing video clips: "mute" the visual, keep the audio?
In-Reply-To: <20051011001558.20523.qmail@web33014.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051011001558.20523.qmail@web33014.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <29E2B3A6-0155-44E8-BCFD-1D0155C1633D@major-k.de>

Hi Erik,

> --- Eric Chatonet
> <eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com> wrote:
>> Hi Klaus,
>>
>> Unfortunately, play pause, resume, etc. only
>> work with video clips
>> but not with audio clips:
> can you "mute" the visual, keep the audio?

well, i am sure Eric and I could do that, but the engine won't. :-)


BUT maybe one could try to "betray" the engine and simply script:

play VIDEOCLIP "an audiofile actually.aif"

and then

play resume VC "an audiofile actually.aif"
etc...

At least worth a try :-)

> Erik Hansen
>
> erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Tue Oct 11 04:48:25 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:48:25 +0200
Subject: QT version on Windows
In-Reply-To: <p06200704bf712525687c@[10.0.0.93]>
Message-ID: <OF5800A7C5.0EB08250-ONC1257097.002E62B7-C1257097.00301F1B@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Sims,

I tried but

After battling again with the clipboard crap not pasting right, in 2.6.1

put queryregistry("HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Apple Computer, 
Inc.\QuickTime\Version","text")

looking at the data (which prevents compilation when inserted between 
quotes)...

The only way i could get a resemblence to what i see in the registry was 
using 

binaryDecode ("H*", data, x)

but after trying  HH*, i got a revcrash!!!


put queryregistry("HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Apple Computer, 
Inc.\QuickTime\Version") into data

put "xaAbBhHcCsSiInNfd" into testlist

repeat for each char c in testlist
get binarydecode(c &"*" , data, x) 
put c & tab & x & cr after fld 1
end repeat

when i tried c&c& "*" i got the crash...

i'll try again later but i have to work...

sorry
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 11/10/2005 10:17:16:

> At 8:18 AM +0200 10/11/05, xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:
> >Actually, it looks like it is written in hex as the version...
> >
> >I have version 6.3 and the regedit key says 6308000
> 
> Xavier,
> 
> Would you please post the script that produces this for me to try?
> binaryDecode() is getting me nowhere.
> 
> TIA
> 
> sims
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From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Tue Oct 11 04:52:32 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:52:32 +0200
Subject: QT version on Windows
In-Reply-To: <p06200705bf7128a03926@[10.0.0.93]>
Message-ID: <OFC2CB7E85.746EBABD-ONC1257097.0030897B-C1257097.00307F80@deutsche-boerse.com>

Sims, 

im using version 6.3 so no i dont have that folder...

put queryregistry("HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\software\apple Computer, 
Inc.\quicktime\version","text") into data
 
get binarydecode("h*", data, x)
you get x = "00080360"

if you reverse that string you get what i saw correctly in the registry...
Nothing else seems to not work the way it's supposed to but im no expert 
in the binarydecode function...

i think i may have something else to chase though... ;)

cheers
Xavier


use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 11/10/2005 10:32:56:

> At 10:23 AM +0200 10/11/05, xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:
> >My quicktime app is never installed in C:\program files....!!!
> 
> Xavier,
> 
> Do you have a folder named "QuickTime" in your "Program Files"?
> 
> If you go to "C:/Program Files/QuickTime/"  do you have a folder 
> named "QTSystem"?
> 
> ciao,
> sims
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



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From katir at hindu.org  Tue Oct 11 05:31:30 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 23:31:30 -1000
Subject: Export Forced Line Break (soft returns) to XML
Message-ID: <8E94C748-AD5D-40F7-B5C4-2EE7205936E3@hindu.org>

Goal-context: Mac OSX

1) Songs with verses are maintained in a Rev stack, mini-dbase. Total  
project data is small enough to warrant keeping everything in the  
stack fields, most facile environment for lots of manipulation and  
different languages translations/versions....

2) We want to export these songs to XML files for upload into Adobe's  
InDesign CS2, where the XML tags will be mapped to paragraphs styles  
for typsetting.

PROBLEM: Sounds simple, and it is... but for one problem...InDesign  
CS2 on the Mac apparently uses char(10) for a "Force Line Break" or  
"Soft Return" which does not end the paragraph style and then another  
character for a "real" end of line which does mark the end of a  
paragraphs stye..

I am unable to distinquish the two... if I cut and paste into  
Revolution and query the chars with charToNum... they both return char 
(10) though in InDesign, they are clearly different.  I think this  
obviousl but to be super clear:

Any given verse in a song wants to be considered a paragraph from a  
typesetting point of view.

Oh my darling Revolution
You are so sweet to me
It takes but a minute to build
Anything from a mouse to a tree

 From Perl to PhP to big fat C (eeee)
You have forever, set me free
Oh My darling Revolution
You are so sweet to me.

... Ok in InDesign we want, on import:

char(13)
Oh amazing, Revolution char(10)
You are so sweet to me char(10)
It takes but a minute to build   char(10)
Anything from a mouse to a tree   char(13)
char(13)
 From Perl to PhP to big fat C (eeee)  char(10)
You have forever, set me free  char(10)
Oh amazing, Revolution  char(10)
You are so sweet to me char(13)

Marked up as HTML this would look like

<p>Oh amazing, Revolution <br />
You are so sweet to me <br />
It takes but a minute to build <br />
Anything from a mouse to a tree</p>

Obvious enough... but I can't find a way to do it.

My script steps through the lines of any song...

[snip]
# this is the key function which closes and opens a verse,
# or puts char(10) (soft return) after any line
# where x is the name of the song and y is each line in that song:

  repeat for each line y in tVerses
       if y is empty then
         delete last char of tOutput
         put   "</" & x &"_verses>"  & cr  &  "<" & x &"_verses>"  
after tOutput
       else
         put y & numTochar(10) after tOutput
       end if
end repeat

# then save a binfile to avoid line ending translation:

   ask file "Enter an output filename."
   put tOutput into url ("binfile:"& it)

Opening this in BBedit with line translation off.. I get 1 line of data!

I can of course resort to a hack and insert a special char like "%"  
after each line and then search and replace those in InDesign CS2  
with the "^n" character (soft return). But I would rather solve this  
problem without having to do that kind of operation after import....

Any ideas? Meanwhile I'm off to the Adobe forums to get more info on  
exactly what the XML file would need to be like in order to import in  
a forced line break...as opposed to "regular vertical whitespace"

TIA
Sivakatirswami










From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Tue Oct 11 06:45:23 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:45:23 +0100
Subject: QT version on Windows
In-Reply-To: <OFC2CB7E85.746EBABD-ONC1257097.0030897B-C1257097.00307F80@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OFC2CB7E85.746EBABD-ONC1257097.0030897B-C1257097.00307F80@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <39CC7938-BD7C-4CD2-90F6-C861EB55F711@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 11 Oct 2005, at 09:52, xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:
>
> put queryregistry("HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\software\apple Computer,
> Inc.\quicktime\version","text") into data
>
> get binarydecode("h*", data, x)
> you get x = "00080360"
>
> if you reverse that string you get what i saw correctly in the  
> registry..

This gives me what I see in the registry. (in this case version 7.0.2)


put queryregistry("HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\software\apple Computer, Inc. 
\quicktime\version","text") into data
local t1,t2,t3,t4
get binaryDecode("H2H2H2H2",data,t1,t2,t3,t4)
put t4&t3&t2&t1

--> 07028000

I'm not sure if this is any help to sims. I assume digits 1-2 are the  
main version number, digit 3 is the subversion, and digit 4 is the  
sub-sub version. But this probably needs some more confirmation.

I also see there's a registry entry that give the location of QuickTime.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\software\apple Computer, Inc.\quicktime\InstallDir

Any use?

> Nothing else seems to not work the way it's supposed to but im no  
> expert
> in the binarydecode function...

I know what you mean. I think the docs may need some revision. Every  
time I read about binaryDecode and binaryEncode my head hurts.  
Generally, it's trial and error.

Cheers
Dave


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Tue Oct 11 07:01:18 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 04:01:18 -0700
Subject: Export Forced Line Break (soft returns) to XML
In-Reply-To: <8E94C748-AD5D-40F7-B5C4-2EE7205936E3@hindu.org>
References: <8E94C748-AD5D-40F7-B5C4-2EE7205936E3@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <p06210206bf714b22f5ac@[66.93.39.98]>

At 11:31 PM -1000 10/10/2005, Sivakatirswami wrote:
># this is the key function which closes and opens a verse,
># or puts char(10) (soft return) after any line
># where x is the name of the song and y is each line in that song:
>
>  repeat for each line y in tVerses
>       if y is empty then
>         delete last char of tOutput
>         put   "</" & x &"_verses>"  & cr  &  "<" & x &"_verses>" after tOutput
>       else
>         put y & numTochar(10) after tOutput
>       end if
>end repeat
>
># then save a binfile to avoid line ending translation:
>
>   ask file "Enter an output filename."
>   put tOutput into url ("binfile:"& it)
>
>Opening this in BBedit with line translation off.. I get 1 line of data!

Sivakatirswami, I'm not sure what the problem is... this is what 
you'd expect. Your script exports a file with no return characters, 
so naturally  BBedit sees only one line... there *is* only one line.

I'm not sure but I think the problem may be that you misunderstand 
the "CR" constant. It's a numToChar(10), not numToChar(13). I think 
you want to be substituting "numToChar(13)" for cr:

   put   "</" & x &"_verses>"  & numToChar(13)  &  "<" & x &"_verses>" 
after tOutput

if I'm correctly understanding what's going on in your script.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From sims at ezpzapps.com  Tue Oct 11 07:03:35 2005
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:03:35 +0200
Subject: QT version on Windows
In-Reply-To: <39CC7938-BD7C-4CD2-90F6-C861EB55F711@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <OFC2CB7E85.746EBABD-ONC1257097.0030897B-C1257097.00307F80@deutsche-boerse
	.com> <39CC7938-BD7C-4CD2-90F6-C861EB55F711@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <p0620070bbf714bbec2d0@[10.0.0.93]>

At 11:45 AM +0100 10/11/05, Dave Cragg wrote:
>>Nothing else seems to not work the way it's supposed to but im no expert
>>in the binarydecode function...
>
>I know what you mean. I think the docs may need some revision. Every 
>time I read about binaryDecode and binaryEncode my head hurts. 
>Generally, it's trial and error.

Many thanks for this Dave & Mr. X - gives me something to play with 
for a while.

It would be very, very nice if one could check the QTVersion without needing to
load QuickTime however!  If you load it and cannot/do not use it then you
cannot set cantuseqt to true without quitting.

ciao,
sims


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Tue Oct 11 07:21:05 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:21:05 +0200
Subject: QT version on Windows
In-Reply-To: <p0620070bbf714bbec2d0@[10.0.0.93]>
Message-ID: <OF01036B78.55593825-ONC1257097.003D2C1E-C1257097.003E195F@deutsche-boerse.com>

Besides my usual takes at quicktime, i noticed that there is yet another 
one i could throw...

I saw there's a nice QTInfo application in the folder however you have to 
open that application to get
any info. 

Otherwise, i got a WMI script to find this info but it's involved and may 
not run on PCs without WMI...

Actually, im still trying to make it run... 

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 11/10/2005 13:03:35:

> At 11:45 AM +0100 10/11/05, Dave Cragg wrote:
> >>Nothing else seems to not work the way it's supposed to but im no 
expert
> >>in the binarydecode function...
> >
> >I know what you mean. I think the docs may need some revision. Every 
> >time I read about binaryDecode and binaryEncode my head hurts. 
> >Generally, it's trial and error.
> 
> Many thanks for this Dave & Mr. X - gives me something to play with 
> for a while.
> 
> It would be very, very nice if one could check the QTVersion 
withoutneeding to
> load QuickTime however!  If you load it and cannot/do not use it then 
you
> cannot set cantuseqt to true without quitting.
> 
> ciao,
> sims
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
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From sims at ezpzapps.com  Tue Oct 11 07:24:08 2005
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:24:08 +0200
Subject: QT version on Windows
In-Reply-To: <39CC7938-BD7C-4CD2-90F6-C861EB55F711@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <OFC2CB7E85.746EBABD-ONC1257097.0030897B-C1257097.00307F80@deutsche-boerse
	.com> <39CC7938-BD7C-4CD2-90F6-C861EB55F711@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <p0620070dbf7150ddf630@[10.0.0.93]>

At 11:45 AM +0100 10/11/05, Dave Cragg wrote:
>
>put queryregistry("HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\software\apple Computer, 
>Inc.\quicktime\version","text") into data
>local t1,t2,t3,t4
>get binaryDecode("H2H2H2H2",data,t1,t2,t3,t4)
>put t4&t3&t2&t1
>
>--> 07028000

Gives me 07028000 here also. I'll test on a few machines & see what 
happens with them.

<shameless plea>  It would be very, very nice if one could check the 
QTVersion without needing to
load QuickTime however! </shameless plea>

ciao,
sims


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Tue Oct 11 07:37:10 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:37:10 +0200
Subject: QT version on Windows
In-Reply-To: <39CC7938-BD7C-4CD2-90F6-C861EB55F711@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <OFE2B2BD69.E3C2847D-ONC1257097.003F69ED-C1257097.003F9248@deutsche-boerse.com>

I think i found a few more hints...

First, the registry version and the application's version do no match. The 
registry say 630800
while the application's version says 6.3.17. 

After some digging, i found that most Quicktime files also say 6.3.17...

But while searching, i found what could be what Sims is looking for...

C:\WINNT\system32\QuickTime\Uninstall.log

which contains:

[C:\home\Administrator\WINDOWS - Header]
Signature=VISE
Version=0001
UninstallKeyName=QuickTime
Product Name=QuickTime 6
[C:\home\Administrator\WINDOWS - WinNT]
AdminPrivileges=1
RemoveInUseFiles=1
[C:\home\Administrator\WINDOWS - Directories2]
count=11
0=D:\app
1=D:\app\QuickTime

As you can see, the version is "again" different!!!! Grrr
But on the other hand, you get all the paths for files and registry 
installed...

cheers
Xavier


use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 11/10/2005 12:45:23:

> 
> On 11 Oct 2005, at 09:52, xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:
> >
> > put queryregistry("HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\software\apple Computer,
> > Inc.\quicktime\version","text") into data
> >
> > get binarydecode("h*", data, x)
> > you get x = "00080360"
> >
> > if you reverse that string you get what i saw correctly in the 
> > registry..
> 
> This gives me what I see in the registry. (in this case version 7.0.2)
> 
> 
> put queryregistry("HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\software\apple Computer, Inc. 
> \quicktime\version","text") into data
> local t1,t2,t3,t4
> get binaryDecode("H2H2H2H2",data,t1,t2,t3,t4)
> put t4&t3&t2&t1
> 
> --> 07028000
> 
> I'm not sure if this is any help to sims. I assume digits 1-2 are the 
> main version number, digit 3 is the subversion, and digit 4 is the 
> sub-sub version. But this probably needs some more confirmation.
> 
> I also see there's a registry entry that give the location of QuickTime.
> 
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\software\apple Computer, Inc.\quicktime\InstallDir
> 
> Any use?
> 
> > Nothing else seems to not work the way it's supposed to but im no 
> > expert
> > in the binarydecode function...
> 
> I know what you mean. I think the docs may need some revision. Every 
> time I read about binaryDecode and binaryEncode my head hurts. 
> Generally, it's trial and error.
> 
> Cheers
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



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Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
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From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Tue Oct 11 07:42:44 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 07:42:44 -0400
Subject: weird msg-box phenom?
Message-ID: <B8717B36-81B9-4DE0-81AA-6402B4309B06@conncoll.edu>

While I'm debugging a script (stopped at a breakpoint), when I try to  
use the message box to check something, it lets me type up to &  
including one blank space; then the insertion point disappears and  
the box takes no characters. When I click inside it again it accepts  
characters up through one more blank space; and so on. Do others get  
this?

Now that I mention it: I don't remember it being true before, but it  
is now, that the Variable Watcher window disappears whenever there's  
no script running. Am I just forgetting? It's a pain -- the debug/ 
edit cycle has to include starting up that window again . . .

(OS 10.4.2; Dreamcard 2.6.1 but it happened on 2.6 before I upgraded)

Charles Hartman


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Tue Oct 11 07:51:22 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:51:22 +0200
Subject: weird msg-box phenom?
In-Reply-To: <B8717B36-81B9-4DE0-81AA-6402B4309B06@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <OFF4A11EC5.10A9E369-ONC1257097.0040F862-C1257097.0040DEDD@deutsche-boerse.com>

Charles,

if i remember well, i saw it once that the rev script debugger uses the 
space as a trigger to move your
debugging point forward (depending on the focus of the button selected in 
the debugging window).

As for the variable watcher, there's a preference to hide when not in the 
script editor... but i may be
wrong...

cheers
Xavier



use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 11/10/2005 13:42:44:

> While I'm debugging a script (stopped at a breakpoint), when I try to 
> use the message box to check something, it lets me type up to & 
> including one blank space; then the insertion point disappears and 
> the box takes no characters. When I click inside it again it accepts 
> characters up through one more blank space; and so on. Do others get 
> this?
> 
> Now that I mention it: I don't remember it being true before, but it 
> is now, that the Variable Watcher window disappears whenever there's 
> no script running. Am I just forgetting? It's a pain -- the debug/ 
> edit cycle has to include starting up that window again . . .
> 
> (OS 10.4.2; Dreamcard 2.6.1 but it happened on 2.6 before I upgraded)
> 
> Charles Hartman
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



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Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
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END OF DISCLAIMER


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Tue Oct 11 09:00:21 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:00:21 +0200
Subject: QT version on Windows
In-Reply-To: <OFE2B2BD69.E3C2847D-ONC1257097.003F69ED-C1257097.003F9248@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <OF048D20CC.00C9D8B7-ONC1257097.004741D7-C1257097.00472FA4@deutsche-boerse.com>

Here's a VBS script that will printout the version

Option Explicit
Dim oFSO
Dim sPath, sFileVer, sFileName

sPath = "d:\app\quicktime\quicktimeplayer.exe"
Set oFSO = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")

sFileVer = oFSO.GetFileVersion(sPath)
sFileName = oFSO.GetFileName(sPath)

Wscript.Echo sFileName & " " & sFileVer
Set oFSO = Nothing

which outputs:

quicktimeplayer.exe 6.3.0.17 


if you dont know how to run a vbs script, here's how:
  put fld "script" into dscript -- this contains your script...
   put dscript into url "file:c:/temp/test.vbs"
  get shell("cscript /nologo" && "c:/temp/test.vbs")
  put it
 
enjoy
Xavier



-----------------------------------------
Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From marcus at runrev.com  Tue Oct 11 09:10:17 2005
From: marcus at runrev.com (Marcus van Houdt)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:10:17 +0100
Subject: Export Forced Line Break (soft returns) to XML
In-Reply-To: <8E94C748-AD5D-40F7-B5C4-2EE7205936E3@hindu.org>
References: <8E94C748-AD5D-40F7-B5C4-2EE7205936E3@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <5E73A100-3A58-11DA-BA24-0003936DB936@runrev.com>

Hello,

The Mac uses the Ascii character 13 (a carriage return) for line 
endings.  UNIX uses a linefeed (char 10) and Windows uses both.
If your text file is intended for the Mac, simply use the "return" 
constant, and save using "file" (not "binfile"), as this will covert 
the returns to the correct line ending character for the platform that 
you are saving on.
In revolution return is a shorthand for linefeed, or ascii 10, and end 
of line translation is performed in the appropriate cases. For more 
information take a look at the Rev documentation on return.


Marcus

Software Developer
Runtime Revolution
marcus at runrev.com

Disclaimer:
Email from people at RunRev.com  does not usually represent official 
policy of Runtime Revolution.
On 11 Oct 2005, at 10:31, Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Goal-context: Mac OSX
>
> 1) Songs with verses are maintained in a Rev stack, mini-dbase. Total 
> project data is small enough to warrant keeping everything in the 
> stack fields, most facile environment for lots of manipulation and 
> different languages translations/versions....
>
> 2) We want to export these songs to XML files for upload into Adobe's 
> InDesign CS2, where the XML tags will be mapped to paragraphs styles 
> for typsetting.
>
> PROBLEM: Sounds simple, and it is... but for one problem...InDesign 
> CS2 on the Mac apparently uses char(10) for a "Force Line Break" or 
> "Soft Return" which does not end the paragraph style and then another 
> character for a "real" end of line which does mark the end of a 
> paragraphs stye..
>
> I am unable to distinquish the two... if I cut and paste into 
> Revolution and query the chars with charToNum... they both return 
> char(10) though in InDesign, they are clearly different.  I think this 
> obviousl but to be super clear:
>
> Any given verse in a song wants to be considered a paragraph from a 
> typesetting point of view.
>
> Oh my darling Revolution
> You are so sweet to me
> It takes but a minute to build
> Anything from a mouse to a tree
>
> From Perl to PhP to big fat C (eeee)
> You have forever, set me free
> Oh My darling Revolution
> You are so sweet to me.
>
> ... Ok in InDesign we want, on import:
>
> char(13)
> Oh amazing, Revolution char(10)
> You are so sweet to me char(10)
> It takes but a minute to build   char(10)
> Anything from a mouse to a tree   char(13)
> char(13)
> From Perl to PhP to big fat C (eeee)  char(10)
> You have forever, set me free  char(10)
> Oh amazing, Revolution  char(10)
> You are so sweet to me char(13)
>
> Marked up as HTML this would look like
>
> <p>Oh amazing, Revolution <br />
> You are so sweet to me <br />
> It takes but a minute to build <br />
> Anything from a mouse to a tree</p>
>
> Obvious enough... but I can't find a way to do it.
>
> My script steps through the lines of any song...
>
> [snip]
> # this is the key function which closes and opens a verse,
> # or puts char(10) (soft return) after any line
> # where x is the name of the song and y is each line in that song:
>
>  repeat for each line y in tVerses
>       if y is empty then
>         delete last char of tOutput
>         put   "</" & x &"_verses>"  & cr  &  "<" & x &"_verses>" after 
> tOutput
>       else
>         put y & numTochar(10) after tOutput
>       end if
> end repeat
>
> # then save a binfile to avoid line ending translation:
>
>   ask file "Enter an output filename."
>   put tOutput into url ("binfile:"& it)
>
> Opening this in BBedit with line translation off.. I get 1 line of 
> data!
>
> I can of course resort to a hack and insert a special char like "%" 
> after each line and then search and replace those in InDesign CS2 with 
> the "^n" character (soft return). But I would rather solve this 
> problem without having to do that kind of operation after import....
>
> Any ideas? Meanwhile I'm off to the Adobe forums to get more info on 
> exactly what the XML file would need to be like in order to import in 
> a forced line break...as opposed to "regular vertical whitespace"
>
> TIA
> Sivakatirswami
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Oct 11 11:10:36 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:10:36 -0700
Subject: QT version on Windows
In-Reply-To: <p0620070dbf7150ddf630@[10.0.0.93]>
References: <OFC2CB7E85.746EBABD-ONC1257097.0030897B-C1257097.00307F80@deutsche-boerse
	.com> <39CC7938-BD7C-4CD2-90F6-C861EB55F711@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<p0620070dbf7150ddf630@[10.0.0.93]>
Message-ID: <0D1F17C1-E757-43BF-BD3B-D0E5BE81081B@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 11, 2005, at 4:24 AM, sims wrote:
> <shameless plea>  It would be very, very nice if one could check  
> the QTVersion without needing to
> load QuickTime however! </shameless plea>

Have you played around with this at all?  I heard Tuviah made some  
changes to the engine sometime around 2.5 that modified the behavior  
so that it would be possible to check the qtVersion and then set  
dontuseQT to true and QT wouldn't be used.

I played around with this for a bit when I was working on the Images  
and Multimedia conference and got it to work sometimes but not all of  
the time in my tests.  I didn't have time to narrow down what was  
going on but you may be able to find something that works.  It may be  
that you can't have any media loaded into a player when you set  
dontuseQT to true or that you have to create new player objects after  
setting it.  I don't know but it may be worth fiddling around with.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Oct 11 11:11:38 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:11:38 -0400
Subject: Constellation users?
Message-ID: <141dd090c2889c617cf2161cdac39bb9@rpsystems.net>

Anyone here using D&M's Constellation and other "Gadgets" on a daily 
basis that might be willing to answer a few questions, on or off list? 
I'm considering it, but I don't see a trial version so I'd like to get 
a couple of usage details from a regular user.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From kee at kagi.com  Tue Oct 11 11:14:26 2005
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:14:26 -0700
Subject: Export Forced Line Break (soft returns) to XML
In-Reply-To: <8E94C748-AD5D-40F7-B5C4-2EE7205936E3@hindu.org>
References: <8E94C748-AD5D-40F7-B5C4-2EE7205936E3@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <3E828A40-C02C-4BE3-BFF3-A5D5DCA0EB1A@kagi.com>

yes, this is a very common problem.

> The Mac uses the Ascii character 13 (a carriage return) for line  
> endings.  UNIX uses a linefeed (char 10) and Windows uses both.
> If your text file is intended for the Mac, simply use the "return"  
> constant, and save using "file" (not "binfile"), as this will  
> covert the returns to the correct line ending character for the  
> platform that you are saving on.
> In revolution return is a shorthand for linefeed, or ascii 10, and  
> end of line translation is performed in the appropriate cases. For  
> more information take a look at the Rev documentation on return.

When the Mac is doing the processing and the file has to go to some  
other platform, or the receiving application insists the file get  
written a specific way regardless what revolution thinks, you have to  
save the file to disk using binfile and write the ascii values, avoid  
the constant "return" because ... it's not really a constant (it  
changes).

If you are accepting data into a text field and it's via copy and  
paste, I'm not sure how to retain the ascii(10) and ascii(13) values  
within revolution.

If you are accepting data via reading a file ... read it with binfile  
to retain that data.

on flame
      With all software there is a line in how far to go to make  
things easy for programmers. \
      The problems with a language pop up when the language goes over  
that line and you \
      actually don't want it to automatically do what it is doing.  
Then you fight the language \
      to get it to do what you want.

      I'd really would have preferred that the runrev team leave  
constants constant and to \
      create a new constant that is

      lineEnd

      that varies by platform.  But, they chose to make a constant  
(return) not be constant \
      and it is hell.
end flame

Kee Nethery



From jhurley at infostations.com  Tue Oct 11 11:31:41 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:31:41 -0700
Subject: : Playing audio clips
In-Reply-To: <20051010231043.6B16A824FE2@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051010231043.6B16A824FE2@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p0623091dbf7181f9cb37@[69.85.158.21]>

>
>Message: 1
>Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:41:52 -0700
>From: Mark Talluto <userev at canelasoftware.com>
>Subject: Re: Playing audio clips
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Message-ID: <3F18C286-563B-462E-88E1-8292D4DC2FFF at canelasoftware.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>
>On Oct 10, 2005, at 8:23 AM, Jim Hurley wrote:
>
>>  As far as I can make out  from the documentation one can only  
>>  start (from the  beginning) and stop an audio clip. It is not 
>>  possible to pause,  resume or control the speed.
>>
>  > Did I get this right?
>>
>
>Jim,
>
>If you use a player control to handle the audio, you can do all of
>the above.
>
>Mark Talluto


Mark,

That is encouraging.

However I'm having trouble getting started. Apparently the sound file 
cannot  be an imported sound file but  a referenced file on disk.

So, I find I can start the play  with:

   Play "/Users/jameshurley/Desktop/myAudio.wav"

Now, where does the player come in? How do I get the player to 
control the play? How does the player pause, change volume or speed 
of this sound file?

Jim





From sims at ezpzapps.com  Tue Oct 11 11:37:25 2005
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:37:25 +0200
Subject: QT version on Windows
In-Reply-To: <0D1F17C1-E757-43BF-BD3B-D0E5BE81081B@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <OFC2CB7E85.746EBABD-ONC1257097.0030897B-C1257097.00307F80@deutsche-boerse
	.com> <39CC7938-BD7C-4CD2-90F6-C861EB55F711@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<p0620070dbf7150ddf630@[10.0.0.93]>
	<0D1F17C1-E757-43BF-BD3B-D0E5BE81081B@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <p06200711bf718b0888f8@[10.0.0.93]>

At 8:10 AM -0700 10/11/05, Trevor DeVore wrote:
>
>Have you played around with this at all?  I heard Tuviah made some 
>changes to the engine sometime around 2.5 that modified the behavior 
>so that it would be possible to check the qtVersion and then set 
>dontuseQT to true and QT wouldn't be used.
>
>I played around with this for a bit when I was working on the Images 
>and Multimedia conference and got it to work sometimes but not all 
>of the time in my tests.

I fiddled with this quite a bit, thought I had it working then 
couldn't repeat the
success. I then emailed Klaus and he fiddled with no success, Klaus has added
his experience to Bug 1949 - the only votes for it (5) are mine.

ciao,
sims




From kee at kagi.com  Tue Oct 11 11:39:23 2005
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:39:23 -0700
Subject: Export Forced Line Break (soft returns) to XML
In-Reply-To: <8E94C748-AD5D-40F7-B5C4-2EE7205936E3@hindu.org>
References: <8E94C748-AD5D-40F7-B5C4-2EE7205936E3@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <F4D0C004-4E7F-4ABE-BB1B-57DAFBED9FF8@kagi.com>

Perhaps the solution is to add three new constants

returnCR
returnCRLF
returnLF

and have revolution respect those as constant constants so that if  
you know that you need to write a text file from your OS (whatever  
that may be) to a known OS that absolutely requires a specific type  
of "return" set of characters, you could use these constants and the  
normal read and write file commands.

This would retain the existing changing constant and give folks like  
me who write files for other OSes an easy to use solution. Just a  
thought.

Kee Nethery




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Oct 11 11:42:26 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:42:26 -0700
Subject: : Playing audio clips
In-Reply-To: <p0623091dbf7181f9cb37@[69.85.158.21]>
Message-ID: <BF712B72.2289B%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Jim Hurley  wrote:

> I'm having trouble getting started. Apparently the sound file
> cannot  be an imported sound file but  a referenced file on disk.
> 
> So, I find I can start the play  with:
> 
>  Play "/Users/jameshurley/Desktop/myAudio.wav"
> 
> Now, where does the player come in?

 set the fileName of player myPlayer to \
    "/Users/jameshurley/Desktop/myAudio.wav"

To pause:
 set the paused of player myPlayer to true

To check player status:
 get the paused of player myPlayer


> How do I get the player to
> control the play? How does the player pause, change volume or speed
> of this sound file?

See player properties such as:
 duration (media length)
 currentTime (current player position)
 playRate (speed)
 playLoudness (volume)


Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From gregory.lypny at videotron.ca  Tue Oct 11 11:54:18 2005
From: gregory.lypny at videotron.ca (Gregory Lypny)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:54:18 -0400
Subject: Combine Command
Message-ID: <C51B04C6-3251-45C5-A760-A63D7064DB88@videotron.ca>

Hello everyone,

     When I use tab as a secondary delimiter with the Combine  
command, the key of each element is placed before each element's  
contents.  But if each element has many lines, and assuming the array  
has been combined using return as the primary delimiter, the key is  
only placed before the first line of each element's contents.  If I'm  
creating an index or some sort of relational database, it would be  
nice to place the key before every line.  Is there a slick way of  
doing this, or must I resort to a repeat loop?

     Regards,

         Gregory


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 11 12:20:16 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:20:16 -0500
Subject: QT version on Windows
In-Reply-To: <OF048D20CC.00C9D8B7-ONC1257097.004741D7-C1257097.00472FA4@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <BF715070.2D6E3%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/11/05 8:00 AM, "xbury.cs at clearstream.com" <xbury.cs at clearstream.com>
wrote:

> Here's a VBS script that will printout the version
> 
> Option Explicit
> Dim oFSO
> Dim sPath, sFileVer, sFileName
> 
> sPath = "d:\app\quicktime\quicktimeplayer.exe"
> Set oFSO = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")

You need to be careful when using VBS with the FileSystemObject - several
antivirus programs (including Norton) will bring up an alert whenever an
instance of the FileSystemObject is created, asking the user for permission
to continue. This likely is something you don't want in a finished
product...

Just FYI,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Tue Oct 11 12:25:28 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 09:25:28 -0700
Subject: Scale to fit
In-Reply-To: <BF70C158.2D696%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <BF713588.38659%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Thanks for this tip

On 10/10/05 11:09 PM, "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

> Here you go:
> 
> function stsScaleObject pOrigW,pOrigH,pMaxW,pMaxH
>   put pMaxW/pOrigW into tPctW
>   put pMaxH/pOrigH into tPctH
>   if tPctH < tPctW then
>     put pOrigH * tPctH into tNewH
>     put pOrigW * tPctH into tNewW
>   else
>     put pOrigH * tPctW into tNewH
>     put pOrigW * tPctW into tNewW
>   end if
>   return round(tNewW),round(tNewH)
> end stsScaleObject


I added the constraint of only scaling when necessary and this is what I
came up with

FUNCTION stsScaleObject pOrigW,pOrigH,pMaxW,pMaxH
   put pMaxW/pOrigW into tPctW
   put pMaxH/pOrigH into tPctH
   IF tPctH < tPctW THEN
      IF  tPctH < 1 THEN
         put pOrigH * tPctH into tNewH
         put pOrigW * tPctH into tNewW
      ELSE
         put pOrigH into tNewH
         put pOrigW into tNewW
      END if
   ELSE
      IF tPctW < 1 THEN
         put pOrigH * tPctW into tNewH
         put pOrigW * tPctW into tNewW
      ELSE
         put pOrigH into tNewH
         put pOrigW into tNewW
      END if
   END if
    
   return round(tNewW),round(tNewH)
END stsScaleObject


It could probably be optimized but it works

Thanks again

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Oct 11 12:31:46 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:31:46 +0200
Subject: QT version on Windows
In-Reply-To: <BF715070.2D6E3%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <20051011160234.5329B8250D8@mail.runrev.com>


good to know... 
but it worked! ;)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ray
> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 6:20 PM
> To: Use Revolution List
> Subject: Re: QT version on Windows
> 
> On 10/11/05 8:00 AM, "xbury.cs at clearstream.com" 
> <xbury.cs at clearstream.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > Here's a VBS script that will printout the version
> > 
> > Option Explicit
> > Dim oFSO
> > Dim sPath, sFileVer, sFileName
> > 
> > sPath = "d:\app\quicktime\quicktimeplayer.exe"
> > Set oFSO = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")
> 
> You need to be careful when using VBS with the 
> FileSystemObject - several antivirus programs (including 
> Norton) will bring up an alert whenever an instance of the 
> FileSystemObject is created, asking the user for permission 
> to continue. This likely is something you don't want in a 
> finished product...
> 
> Just FYI,
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Tue Oct 11 12:42:15 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 09:42:15 -0700
Subject: Constellation users?
In-Reply-To: <141dd090c2889c617cf2161cdac39bb9@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BF713977.38668%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Hi Troi,

I am using it every day. I think it is great and it continues to improve
with every release.

I am new Rev user and I never used Rev's IDE much. So I didn't have to adapt
from something else. But I just liked Constellation better so I went with
that.  Occasionally I use Rev's Property inspector along with Constellation,
but for the most part I don't use the Rev script editor at all.

I would be happy you answer any more questions you might have


Todd

On 10/11/05 8:11 AM, "Troy Rollins" <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:

> Anyone here using D&M's Constellation and other "Gadgets" on a daily
> basis that might be willing to answer a few questions, on or off list?
> I'm considering it, but I don't see a trial version so I'd like to get
> a couple of usage details from a regular user.

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Tue Oct 11 12:52:21 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 09:52:21 -0700
Subject: Not exactly a System Window???
Message-ID: <BF713BD5.3866E%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Hello,

I am building a tool that I would Like to appear in a window floating above
everything but only when a certain other apps are in front.

The idea is that it should appear as a Tool Palette for some Apps but not
all applications.

I know how to set the systemWindow prop to true, but I don't know how to
make it only be true when some applications are in front but not others.

Initially this would be targeted at Mac OSX but Windows would follow
immediately after.

Anybody have any ideas?

Thanks

Todd

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Oct 11 12:56:02 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 09:56:02 -0700
Subject: QT version on Windows
In-Reply-To: <39CC7938-BD7C-4CD2-90F6-C861EB55F711@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <OFC2CB7E85.746EBABD-ONC1257097.0030897B-C1257097.00307F80@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<39CC7938-BD7C-4CD2-90F6-C861EB55F711@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <634679729.20051011095602@ahsoftware.net>

Dave-

Tuesday, October 11, 2005, 3:45:23 AM, you wrote:

> This gives me what I see in the registry. (in this case version 7.0.2)


> put queryregistry("HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\software\apple Computer, Inc. 
> \quicktime\version","text") into data
> local t1,t2,t3,t4
> get binaryDecode("H2H2H2H2",data,t1,t2,t3,t4)
> put t4&t3&t2&t1

Interesting. What are you trying to do with that "text" in the
queryRegistry() call? I suppose the compiler will try to create a
variable called "text" and store the result there, but I don't think
you'll be able to retrieve it.

put queryRegistry("blahblahblah", abc)
put abc

gives "dword" for the registry key type for the QT version.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Tue Oct 11 13:00:09 2005
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:00:09 +0200
Subject: QT version on Windows
In-Reply-To: <634679729.20051011095602@ahsoftware.net>
References: <OFC2CB7E85.746EBABD-ONC1257097.0030897B-C1257097.00307F80@deutsche-boerse
	.com>	<39CC7938-BD7C-4CD2-90F6-C861EB55F711@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<634679729.20051011095602@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <p06200714bf719f0c39e6@[10.0.0.93]>

At 9:56 AM -0700 10/11/05, Mark Wieder wrote:
>Interesting. What are you trying to do with that "text" in the
>queryRegistry() call? I suppose the compiler will try to create a
>variable called "text" and store the result there, but I don't think
>you'll be able to retrieve it.
>
>put queryRegistry("blahblahblah", abc)
>put abc
>
>gives "dword" for the registry key type for the QT version.


put queryregistry("HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\software\apple Computer, 
Inc.\quicktime\version","text") into data
local t1,t2,t3,t4
get binaryDecode("H2H2H2H2",data,t1,t2,t3,t4)
put t4&t3&t2&t1

Produces  07028000 here.
I have QuickTime 7.0.2 installed on my PC.

ciao,
sims


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Tue Oct 11 13:10:19 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:10:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <BF7098B6.22805%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510110947080.15675-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>



On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Actually, there is a difference: not how things *should* look but how things
> *can* look.  Again, the premise is that users are more comfortable modifying
> existing designs/layouts/templates, rather than starting from scratch.  The
> template designers are giving users a starting point, which they can either
> choose to use as is, or modify to their liking.

--I agree, and it is an important distinction.  As an educator, however,
and particularly with respect to my observations of this term
(unfortunately confirming observations of previous terms), "can"
inevitably equals "should" inasmuch as they never move beyond "can". Do
the majority of these target users ever get to the "modify" stage?  To
wit: Can you not spot a webpage "designed" in FrontPage?

On the one hand, I "get" that these sorts of things enable people to do
things they might otherwise not be able to do.  OTOH, it seems also to
disable their ability to be creative (ala grammar "checkers" that
discourage composition of compelling prose and the finding of an authentic
voice).

> The way I read your comments, they appear to completely support the above
> premise: users need a jump start that shows how things can look/work, not an
> empty page.

--I'd argue that the empty page forces people to think and explore and
create; to promote activity as opposed to passivity. Should, say, computer
science lectures look just like comparative lit lectures, which look
just like...

There's also the issue of form supplanting substance.

Sigh.  That's what I get for being a pointy-headed individual, I suppose.

Judy



From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Tue Oct 11 13:16:23 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:16:23 +0100
Subject: QT version on Windows
In-Reply-To: <634679729.20051011095602@ahsoftware.net>
References: <OFC2CB7E85.746EBABD-ONC1257097.0030897B-C1257097.00307F80@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<39CC7938-BD7C-4CD2-90F6-C861EB55F711@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<634679729.20051011095602@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <5A1C74F3-52AC-4400-82E4-4D0D622C85A4@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 11 Oct 2005, at 17:56, Mark Wieder wrote:
>
>
>> put queryregistry("HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\software\apple Computer, Inc.
>> \quicktime\version","text") into data
>> local t1,t2,t3,t4
>> get binaryDecode("H2H2H2H2",data,t1,t2,t3,t4)
>> put t4&t3&t2&t1
>>
>
> Interesting. What are you trying to do with that "text" in the
> queryRegistry() call?


No idea, Mark. :-) I just copied that part from an earlier post. I  
didn't notice it.

The version I used here didn't include a second parameter at all. Lke  
this:

put queryregistry("HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\software\apple Computer, Inc. 
\quicktime\version") into data
local t1,t2,t3,t4
get binaryDecode("H2H2H2H2",data,t1,t2,t3,t4)
put t4&t3&t2&t1

Dave


From eric.miclo at wanadoo.fr  Tue Oct 11 13:23:09 2005
From: eric.miclo at wanadoo.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C9ric_Miclo?=)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:23:09 +0200
Subject: Constellation users?
In-Reply-To: <141dd090c2889c617cf2161cdac39bb9@rpsystems.net>
References: <141dd090c2889c617cf2161cdac39bb9@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <B35914A3-6552-4E0A-9081-E3DE975487DF@wanadoo.fr>

Hello Troy,

Since I've bought a copy of Constellation I don't use anymore Rev's  
integrated script editor.
It's a clean tool and since the latest incarnation it can replace  
Rev's property inspector.

And because Jerry Daniels (the developer) is somebody that has great  
ideas and is really listening to users, the product evolves frequently.
In a few words: I'm very happy with that piece of software.

Inspection Gadget is really useful even if you don't use Constellation.

If you've more questions I'd be glad to try to answer o them.

Regards,

?rIC

Le 11 oct. 05 ? 17:11, Troy Rollins a ?crit :

> Anyone here using D&M's Constellation and other "Gadgets" on a  
> daily basis that might be willing to answer a few questions, on or  
> off list? I'm considering it, but I don't see a trial version so  
> I'd like to get a couple of usage details from a regular user.
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

-- My NeXT computer will Be a Mac too! --




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 11 13:25:21 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 12:25:21 -0500
Subject: Not exactly a System Window???
In-Reply-To: <BF713BD5.3866E%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <BF715FB1.2D709%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/11/05 11:52 AM, "Todd Geist" <tg.lists at geistinteractive.com> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I am building a tool that I would Like to appear in a window floating above
> everything but only when a certain other apps are in front.
> 
> The idea is that it should appear as a Tool Palette for some Apps but not
> all applications.
> 
> I know how to set the systemWindow prop to true, but I don't know how to
> make it only be true when some applications are in front but not others.
> 
> Initially this would be targeted at Mac OSX but Windows would follow
> immediately after.
> 
> Anybody have any ideas?

Well, you could constantly poll for the frontmost application process on OS
X using AppleScript, and then set the style of the window to 'system' only
when a particular app was in front, and to 'palette' all the other times.

Here's the AppleScript:

tell application "System Events"
    get the name of every application process whose frontmost is true
end tell

It will come back as a list item (like {"MetaCard"}), so you can either
strip the first and last two characters from it, or you can use this instead
(which uses the "as string" and value() functions):

on mouseUp
  put format("tell application \"System Events\"") & cr & \
      "set tProc to (the name of every application process" && \
      "whose frontmost is true) as string" & cr & \
      "get tProc" & cr & "end tell" into tAS
  do tAS as AppleScript
  put value(the result)
end mouseUp

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Oct 11 13:32:23 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:32:23 -0400
Subject: Constellation users?
In-Reply-To: <B35914A3-6552-4E0A-9081-E3DE975487DF@wanadoo.fr>
References: <141dd090c2889c617cf2161cdac39bb9@rpsystems.net>
	<B35914A3-6552-4E0A-9081-E3DE975487DF@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <11df774bebb6d4134ba9770cf113a873@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 11, 2005, at 1:23 PM, ?ric Miclo wrote:

> Since I've bought a copy of Constellation I don't use anymore Rev's 
> integrated script editor.
> It's a clean tool and since the latest incarnation it can replace 
> Rev's property inspector.

Thanks ?ric, and Todd. These are mostly the things I wanted to know. 
Trevor already replied offlist as well, and I've sent him a few 
additional questions. Constellation looks like it can make Rev even 
more powerful and productive. I'll likely give it a go.


--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Tue Oct 11 13:39:59 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:39:59 -0700
Subject: Not exactly a System Window???
In-Reply-To: <BF715FB1.2D709%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <BF7146FF.38687%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Thanks Again Ken!

On 10/11/05 10:25 AM, "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

> Well, you could constantly poll for the frontmost application process on OS
> X using AppleScript, and then set the style of the window to 'system' only
> when a particular app was in front, and to 'palette' all the other times.

Will constantly poll have an impact on the performance of the stack?

Does anybody have an example of how to set up "polling"?

Thanks  again!

Todd


-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Tue Oct 11 13:49:53 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:49:53 -0400
Subject: Constellation users?
In-Reply-To: <11df774bebb6d4134ba9770cf113a873@rpsystems.net>
References: <141dd090c2889c617cf2161cdac39bb9@rpsystems.net>
	<B35914A3-6552-4E0A-9081-E3DE975487DF@wanadoo.fr>
	<11df774bebb6d4134ba9770cf113a873@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <F50A2CE4-E664-4CEE-B050-7AD7B38110FE@conncoll.edu>


On Oct 11, 2005, at 1:32 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Oct 11, 2005, at 1:23 PM, ?ric Miclo wrote:
>
>
>> Since I've bought a copy of Constellation I don't use anymore  
>> Rev's integrated script editor.
>> It's a clean tool and since the latest incarnation it can replace  
>> Rev's property inspector.
>>
>
> Thanks ?ric, and Todd. These are mostly the things I wanted to  
> know. Trevor already replied offlist as well, and I've sent him a  
> few additional questions. Constellation looks like it can make Rev  
> even more powerful and productive. I'll likely give it a go.

I really would. I'm an avid open-source guy; but having sprung for  
Dreamcard, I'm very glad I also sprang for Constellation. It's  
cleaner, better integrated, and for me somewhat more intuitive than  
the Rev IDE, which I continue to find very quirky.

Charles Hartman




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Oct 11 13:58:13 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:58:13 -0700
Subject: QT version on Windows
In-Reply-To: <5A1C74F3-52AC-4400-82E4-4D0D622C85A4@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <OFC2CB7E85.746EBABD-ONC1257097.0030897B-C1257097.00307F80@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<39CC7938-BD7C-4CD2-90F6-C861EB55F711@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<634679729.20051011095602@ahsoftware.net>
	<5A1C74F3-52AC-4400-82E4-4D0D622C85A4@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1428411234.20051011105813@ahsoftware.net>

Dave-

Tuesday, October 11, 2005, 10:16:23 AM, you wrote:

> No idea, Mark. :-) I just copied that part from an earlier post. I
> didn't notice it.

Fair enough. I've tossed the original by now - was just curious.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Oct 11 14:44:44 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:44:44 -0500
Subject: Constellation users?
In-Reply-To: <141dd090c2889c617cf2161cdac39bb9@rpsystems.net>
References: <141dd090c2889c617cf2161cdac39bb9@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <434C081C.5040803@chipp.com>

If you're a Mac user, then IMO, it's a 'must have.' As a PC user, I've 
been using the inspector gadget for over a year, and can honestly say 
it's the most used plugin in my arsenal (well, maybe tied with altArchive).

Constellation the script editor, for the most part works great on PC, 
but I think there are still a couple of tweaks yet to go. I frequently 
fire it up to use some of it's more special features. For instance, the 
ability to create 'script folders' for a single object script is 
invaluable. It's really great for library scripts which can get quite 
long. You can effectively 'drag-drop' your handlers and functions into 
script folders which can be expanded/collapsed with a single mouseClick.

Jerry works on Macs mostly, but has a PC right there on his desk with 
him. Most of the beta testers (AFAIK) are on Mac as well, so it's been 
really 'put through the ringer' on THAT platform.

The best feature about Constellation, is the support. Anytime I point 
out a problem to Jerry and have a replicable recipe, it gets fixed-- 
usually within 24 hours. Just can't beat that kind of service :-)

-Chipp

Troy Rollins wrote:
> Anyone here using D&M's Constellation and other "Gadgets" on a daily 
> basis that might be willing to answer a few questions, on or off list? 
> I'm considering it, but I don't see a trial version so I'd like to get a 
> couple of usage details from a regular user.



From mcdomi at free.fr  Tue Oct 11 14:52:55 2005
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:52:55 +0200
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510110947080.15675-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <1h4acmn.1tv1gju1lsz2mpM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Judy Perry <jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu> wrote:

> On the one hand, I "get" that these sorts of things enable people to do
> things they might otherwise not be able to do.  OTOH, it seems also to
> disable their ability to be creative (ala grammar "checkers" that
> discourage composition of compelling prose and the finding of an authentic
> voice).

As if Revolution shipped with a number of pre-made stacks ;-)))

-- 
Revolutionario



From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Oct 11 14:55:47 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:55:47 -0500
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510110947080.15675-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510110947080.15675-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <434C0AB3.4050605@chipp.com>

Judy Perry wrote:

> --I'd argue that the empty page forces people to think and explore and
> create; to promote activity as opposed to passivity. Should, say, computer
> science lectures look just like comparative lit lectures, which look
> just like...

My experience is that people criticize much better than they create. 
This is one of the reasons design schools emphasize 'crits' and rarely 
give 'blank page' exercises (even thesis work rarely involves starting 
from scratch). It's also the reason many prefer 'template' approaches.

Most all designers I know frequently 'borrow' from other works, or use 
them as inspiration. I found out when teaching designers how to draw, it 
was always better for them to start with a specific idea and goal, 
rather than a blank page. This typically manifested itself in copying 
another rendering technique, or using photographs as reference material.

There are many who feel it takes more creativity to design within 
specific parameters than starting from a blank page. And, just because 
one has to work within constraints, doesn't exclude creating a different 
final outcome.



From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Oct 11 15:06:02 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:06:02 -0400
Subject: Constellation users?
In-Reply-To: <434C081C.5040803@chipp.com>
References: <141dd090c2889c617cf2161cdac39bb9@rpsystems.net>
	<434C081C.5040803@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <f489824b81cbe6fc73b4a9b5ae6d1868@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 11, 2005, at 2:44 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Constellation the script editor, for the most part works great on PC, 
> but I think there are still a couple of tweaks yet to go. I frequently 
> fire it up to use some of it's more special features. For instance, 
> the ability to create 'script folders' for a single object script is 
> invaluable. It's really great for library scripts which can get quite 
> long. You can effectively 'drag-drop' your handlers and functions into 
> script folders which can be expanded/collapsed with a single 
> mouseClick.

This sounds great. Thanks for the info.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 11 15:24:18 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:24:18 -0500
Subject: Not exactly a System Window???
In-Reply-To: <BF7146FF.38687%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <BF717B92.2D754%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/11/05 12:39 PM, "Todd Geist" <tg.lists at geistinteractive.com> wrote:

> Thanks Again Ken!
> 
> On 10/11/05 10:25 AM, "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:
> 
>> Well, you could constantly poll for the frontmost application process on OS
>> X using AppleScript, and then set the style of the window to 'system' only
>> when a particular app was in front, and to 'palette' all the other times.
> 
> Will constantly poll have an impact on the performance of the stack?

Not on the stack, but on the overall system, depending on how tight a "loop"
you run. For example, if you can affort to wait a half-second before
bringing your palette up (500ms), you can significantly reduce the impact on
the system.
 
> Does anybody have an example of how to set up "polling"?

Here's a simple one:

on StartPolling
   PollProcesses
end StartPolling

on PollProcesses
  -- do your code for checking the processes, etc.
  send "PollProcesses" to me in 500 milliseconds
end PollProcesses

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From revolution at derbrill.de  Tue Oct 11 15:25:39 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:25:39 +0200
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <20051011170005.DD6BC8250FF@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <CE95E009-3A8C-11DA-9486-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Dom wrote:

 >As if Revolution shipped with a number of pre-made stacks ;-)))

Which would be no bad idea IMHO.

:-D

All the best,

Malte

---
ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes
http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine
http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum 



From charlessilverman at sympatico.ca  Tue Oct 11 15:27:37 2005
From: charlessilverman at sympatico.ca (Charles Silverman)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:27:37 -0400
Subject: bring Standalone to front
Message-ID: <AE7A82D7-1E30-4D2A-9973-2344A56DC674@sympatico.ca>

I'm using a systemwindow palette to leave my rev standalone and go  
find things in google. I'm not been able to figure out how get the  
palette to get my rev standalone back to the front again. A simple  
activate via applescript doesn't seem to do it.  With the application  
bundle on Mac OS X I'm not sure what the correct application name  
should even be. Any help would be appreciated. It may be really  
obvious but I'm just not getting it. Thanks!
Thanks,
Charles Silverman


From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Oct 11 15:41:12 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:41:12 -0500
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <434C0AB3.4050605@chipp.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510110947080.15675-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<434C0AB3.4050605@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <434C1558.4020402@chipp.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:

> My experience is that people criticize much better than they create. 
> This is one of the reasons design schools emphasize 'crits' and rarely 
> give 'blank page' exercises (even thesis work rarely involves starting 
> from scratch). It's also the reason many prefer 'template' approaches.

Perhaps a better way to say this, is that most people are much better at 
choosing what they like from a set of options, rather than starting from 
scratch. Typically, when someone asks me to design a logo for them, I 
prepare a bunch of samples from which they peruse. They can then point 
to ones they like and I can proceed from there. Generate more comps and 
let the choosing continue. It's the way most designs are refined.

I believe one of the successes of ButtonGadget is the fact it already 
has many buttons from which a user can choose from. IMHO, Microsoft is 
on target with this idea, with the caveat that God is in the details.

Typically, the problem when programs 'think for you,' is they often get 
it wrong. Take Handwriting and Voice Recognition for example. Many times 
they are wrong more than right, and this is one of the reasons which 
keeps them from becoming universally accepted. Even 97% correct means 3 
out of every 100 words are wrong, and thus need proofing. And of course 
when I talk to my Prius, I'm lucky if it gets it right 3% of the time;-)

I'm afraid MS Word's new approach will be the same-- it will get it 
right a high percentage of the time, but figuring out how to get the 
last few percent will be near impossible!

Besides, I've rarely seen MS implement any new technology well. Even 
Apple has a much better record.

The fact is, word processing should be simple. For me, 99% of what I 
want to do can/could be done with MacWrite. Plus, there's the added 
advantage I don't have to 'relearn' the application every 3 months I 
jump into it (like one has to do with MSWord), in fact I'm pretty sure I 
could jump into MacWrite now and use it (close to 20 years since last 
used).

IMO, the fact that MSWord saves files in their own proprietary markup 
language *should* discourage anyone from ever using it. It'd sure be 
cool if more adopted Massachusetts Open Doc policy.
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,122685,00.asp

best, Chipp



From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Tue Oct 11 16:30:43 2005
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:30:43 +0200
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
References: <BF7098B6.22805%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <434C20E4.C019ECBD@Club-Internet.fr>



Scott Rossi a *crit :

> Actually, there is a difference: not how things *should* look but how things
> *can* look.  Again, the premise is that users are more comfortable modifying
> existing designs/layouts/templates, rather than starting from scratch.  The
> template designers are giving users a starting point, which they can either
> choose to use as is, or modify to their liking.
>

IMHO this is the kind of approach that works perfectly
on paper, but not so well in real life...

Let's take the example of electronic music devices (synths,
rhythm-boxes, etc). Since the mid 80's most of them come
with numerous presets, but also with editors...
I've been in touch with many musicians between the early
80's to the late 90's and I must say that very few of them
took the time to learn how to program / edit / modify...
Most of them seemed to be satisfied with presets, and used
to sell the device and buy another (brand new) one once they
got tired of the presets.
It is true that UIs of this kind of gear were rather crappy (tiny
LCDs), but anyway the vast creative possibility of some synths
were really worth the effort of reading the manual and try to go
beyond the presets (for example additive synthesis with the
K5000).

I afraid that providing too many templates might lead to
lazyness for users, and in the end every document / layout / etc
might look the same, just like every piece of electronic music
sounds the same these days...

JB



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Tue Oct 11 16:45:45 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:45:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <1h4acmn.1tv1gju1lsz2mpM%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510111345130.21511-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>



On Tue, 11 Oct 2005, Dom wrote:

> As if Revolution shipped with a number of pre-made stacks ;-)))

;-)

Judy



From scott at proherp.com  Tue Oct 11 17:04:00 2005
From: scott at proherp.com (Scott Kane)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 07:04:00 +1000
Subject: Rev 2.6.1 Database Improvements
Message-ID: <000401c5cea7$5b221df0$0201010a@proherps56yaxv>

Hi all,

The message regarding availability of the 2.6.1
up date mentions improvements to the database
side of things. Can't seem to find what these
improvements are.  Anybody able to comment?

Thanks in advance

Scott Kane




From harvey.toyama at qlogic.com  Tue Oct 11 17:20:26 2005
From: harvey.toyama at qlogic.com (Harvey Toyama)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:20:26 -0700
Subject: matchText handler not found
Message-ID: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F801A3A933@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>

Hi,

After yesterday's good advice on regex, I wanted to try "matchText". My
installation (2.5.1) doesn't find the  handler. Is there something
special about the matchText function. In fact, I don't recall any of the
documented functions being found.

 

Perhaps I didn't install correctly?

 

-- Harvey

-- 

 



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Oct 11 17:24:28 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:24:28 -0700
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <434C20E4.C019ECBD@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <BF7098B6.22805%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<434C20E4.C019ECBD@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <E38EA4A4-153F-47E3-AE48-C62DEED1A31D@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 11, 2005, at 1:30 PM, jbv wrote:
>
> IMHO this is the kind of approach that works perfectly
> on paper, but not so well in real life...

> Let's take the example of electronic music devices (synths,
> rhythm-boxes, etc). Since the mid 80's most of them come
> with numerous presets, but also with editors...
> I've been in touch with many musicians between the early
> 80's to the late 90's and I must say that very few of them
> took the time to learn how to program / edit / modify...
> Most of them seemed to be satisfied with presets, and used
> to sell the device and buy another (brand new) one once they
> got tired of the presets.
> It is true that UIs of this kind of gear were rather crappy (tiny
> LCDs), but anyway the vast creative possibility of some synths
> were really worth the effort of reading the manual and try to go
> beyond the presets (for example additive synthesis with the
> K5000).

You will always have a group of people who accept what is given them  
and will do what they can with it.  Then there is the group of people  
who love to tinker and will learn all they can about something in  
order to get more use out of it.  The musicians of the 80s and 90s  
who took the time to read the manuals and learn the beastly UIs (I'm  
thinking early Ensoniq here) came up with some cool stuff for the time.

Either way, templates/presets meet the needs of both.  The average  
user has something that gets them through the day and the above  
average user has something which shows them what is possible.

> I afraid that providing too many templates might lead to
> lazyness for users, and in the end every document / layout / etc
> might look the same, just like every piece of electronic music
> sounds the same these days...

Well, that depends on what studio they are coming out of and the  
quality of the sounds from their library :-)  It also depends on  
whether the music produced was something that was paid for or  
something that the person was doing for fun.  Now, if you are hiring  
someone to do work for you and they are providing work that closely  
resembles templates/presets from a popular app then you might want to  
find someone else.

In the end, the average user doesn't mind if their document looks the  
same as others.  They just want something that looks nice.  Templates/ 
presets provide that for them.  My mom has no desire to learn how to  
tweak templates in Pages (and I don't want to teach her, there are  
bigger fish to fry when it comes to her and computers).  She just  
wants a nice looking document.  A document template gives her that.

I would say that the above average user usually likes to have  
something to start with.  A template/preset gives them that as well.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From soapdog at mac.com  Tue Oct 11 17:47:17 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:47:17 -0300
Subject: [ANN] libGrowl 1.0.0
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-F269A7C3753F393383DC29CC3780@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY105-F269A7C3753F393383DC29CC3780@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <9096A018-D273-40B9-9851-E298FE10904A@mac.com>

That is very nice!!!! I am using growl by issuing shell commands,  
this is a nice addition.

Thanks!
andre


On Oct 11, 2005, at 1:52 AM, Sean Shao wrote:

> For anyone who is using Growl <www.growl.info> and wants to make  
> their Mac OS X based RunRev programs work with Growl, there is a  
> new library available to allow you to do so.
>
> The only thing to be added in a future release is checking if the  
> Growl Preference Pane is installed.
>
> -Sean
> http://www.shaosean.tk/  (let me apologize in advanced for the pop- 
> up ad or pre-website ad)
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today -  
> it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/ 
> direct/01/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From nicolas_cueto at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 11 17:55:20 2005
From: nicolas_cueto at yahoo.com (Nicolas Cueto)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 06:55:20 +0900
Subject: will revCopyFile overwrite?
Message-ID: <004301c5ceae$7ab327c0$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb>

Hello List,

Will using the RevCopyFile command overwrite a 
an existing (and unlocked) file (i.e., if file X in 
folder A is copied to a folder B in which a copy 
of file X already exists)?

I've tested this out on Win2k with different types
of unlocked files and the answer appears to be 
"Yes", but I'd like to be 105% sure.

Thanks,
Nicolas Cueto
niconiko language school


From mark at maseurope.net  Tue Oct 11 18:00:25 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:00:25 +0100
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <434C20E4.C019ECBD@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <BF7098B6.22805%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<434C20E4.C019ECBD@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <09BBCCC7-EFBD-472E-9419-782389A8F485@maseurope.net>

I think the history of synthesizers is quite an interesting example  
of what happens in the real world.

Back in late seventies, most synths had wonderful UIs (ie. lots of  
single-function knobs and buttons).

Sequential Circuits (RIP) had noticed, even then, that 90% of the  
synths returned for service had nothing but the factory presets in them.
Yamaha, having fallen behind in the synth market, had presumably  
noticed the same thing, and in the early 80s, came up with the DX7,  
which was a very complex synth, with a truly dreadful UI (a small  
number of multi-function membrane switches, a slider, and a 2 line  
LCD). However, it came with a bunch of really usable presets, (eg the  
cheesy, tinkling faux electric-piano, still popular in 'smooth jazz'  
today). It was, however, about half the price of the then current  
generation of synths, and it sold like hot-cakes.

Sequential eventually responded with some very good products with  
similar (though better) UIs. Sadly, they never got their presets very  
good, and by '87 they were out of business, as were Oberheim and  
Moog. To this day, the synth with the best (and greatest number) of  
presets beats the competition. It's circular, of course, as most of  
them are so hard to program, that few people have the time or  
patience to bother, so the necessity for for good presets is obvious.

If even musicians (supposedly a creative bunch) aren't generally  
willing to delve into creating their own sounds, then what can we  
expect of the overworked and time-strapped office worker trying to  
put  letters, presentations etc. together? It seems to me that as the  
software gets more and more capable, it must, to some extent, get  
more complex, and so this MS thing is both necessary and inevitable.


Cheers,

mark

On 11 Oct 2005, at 21:30, jbv wrote:

>
>
> Scott Rossi a *crit :
>
>
>> Actually, there is a difference: not how things *should* look but  
>> how things
>> *can* look.  Again, the premise is that users are more comfortable  
>> modifying
>> existing designs/layouts/templates, rather than starting from  
>> scratch.  The
>> template designers are giving users a starting point, which they  
>> can either
>> choose to use as is, or modify to their liking.
>>
>>
>
> IMHO this is the kind of approach that works perfectly
> on paper, but not so well in real life...
>
> Let's take the example of electronic music devices (synths,
> rhythm-boxes, etc). Since the mid 80's most of them come
> with numerous presets, but also with editors...
> I've been in touch with many musicians between the early
> 80's to the late 90's and I must say that very few of them
> took the time to learn how to program / edit / modify...
> Most of them seemed to be satisfied with presets, and used
> to sell the device and buy another (brand new) one once they
> got tired of the presets.
> It is true that UIs of this kind of gear were rather crappy (tiny
> LCDs), but anyway the vast creative possibility of some synths
> were really worth the effort of reading the manual and try to go
> beyond the presets (for example additive synthesis with the
> K5000).
>
> I afraid that providing too many templates might lead to
> lazyness for users, and in the end every document / layout / etc
> might look the same, just like every piece of electronic music
> sounds the same these days...
>
> JB
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From devin_asay at byu.edu  Tue Oct 11 18:00:57 2005
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 16:00:57 -0600
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510102128430.2661-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510102128430.2661-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <05F5E276-1BEA-414A-A23F-73254B361EC5@byu.edu>

Isn't this whole malleable template approach to word processing  
exactly what Apple does with the new Pages word processor. I looked  
at the MS screen shots, then fired up my copy of Pages, and thought  
how lucky MS is to have Apple do its R&D.

;-)

Devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Oct 11 18:06:16 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:06:16 -0700
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <434C20E4.C019ECBD@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <BF718568.22903%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, jbv  wrote:

>> Actually, there is a difference: not how things *should* look but how things
>> *can* look.  Again, the premise is that users are more comfortable modifying
>> existing designs/layouts/templates, rather than starting from scratch.  The
>> template designers are giving users a starting point, which they can either
>> choose to use as is, or modify to their liking.
>> 
> 
> IMHO this is the kind of approach that works perfectly
> on paper, but not so well in real life...
> 
> Let's take the example of electronic music devices (synths,
> rhythm-boxes, etc). Since the mid 80's most of them come
> with numerous presets, but also with editors...
> I've been in touch with many musicians between the early
> 80's to the late 90's and I must say that very few of them
> took the time to learn how to program / edit / modify...
> Most of them seemed to be satisfied with presets, and used
> to sell the device and buy another (brand new) one once they
> got tired of the presets.
> It is true that UIs of this kind of gear were rather crappy (tiny
> LCDs), but anyway the vast creative possibility of some synths
> were really worth the effort of reading the manual and try to go
> beyond the presets (for example additive synthesis with the
> K5000).

I must be missing the point of your post.  MS claims to be providing more
templates and making the UI easier to use.  To use your example, they're
adding even more presets and converting the tiny LCD into a full color
display.  Whether they succeed remains to be seen, but the goal seems pretty
worthwhile to me.

I think it's perfectly understandable that the musicians you cite didn't
want to learn how to program the equipment.  I'll wager the majority of them
wanted to spend their time making music, not learning an arcane programming
language.  And yet that didn't stop many notable artists from making a name
for themselves and learning how to push music technology.

I will also wager that the upcoming Office Suite, just like many current
Macromedia/Adobe products, will allow you launch the various apps without
using a template -- in essence, starting with a blank page.

I have to say I don't see how having more choices can be seen as a negative.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 18:06:23 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:06:23 +1000
Subject: Export Forced Line Break (soft returns) to XML
In-Reply-To: <F4D0C004-4E7F-4ABE-BB1B-57DAFBED9FF8@kagi.com>
References: <8E94C748-AD5D-40F7-B5C4-2EE7205936E3@hindu.org>
	<F4D0C004-4E7F-4ABE-BB1B-57DAFBED9FF8@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510111506j13db164bn604f52c235e4b22e@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/12/05, kee nethery <kee at kagi.com> wrote:
> Perhaps the solution is to add three new constants
>
> returnCR
> returnCRLF
> returnLF
>

My preferred solution would be for CR to mean what CR means in every
other language i.e. ASCII 13. LF correctly means ASCII 10 and CRLF
correctly means 13 + 10, it's just Rev's definition of CR that is
weird. The fact that CR means one thing on it's own and a different
thing when used as part of CRLF is majorly confusing.

However I prefer to use cr in my scripts for a linefeed and leave
"return" to indicate that I am returned a result from a function, so I
would go with your first suggestion and have an entirely new constant
that varies by platform, perhaps EOL?

Sarah


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 18:18:06 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:18:06 +1000
Subject: matchText handler not found
In-Reply-To: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F801A3A933@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>
References: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F801A3A933@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510111518p3c0aba3aua913c671ed490042@mail.gmail.com>

> After yesterday's good advice on regex, I wanted to try "matchText". My
> installation (2.5.1) doesn't find the  handler. Is there something
> special about the matchText function. In fact, I don't recall any of the
> documented functions being found.
>

matchText is a function, not a handler. If you don't give it somewhere
to put the result, you will get an error.

This script works perfectly:
on mouseUp
   put matchText("Goodbye","bye")
end mouseUp

This gives the "handler not found" error:
on mouseUp
   matchText("Goodbye","bye")
end mouseUp

HTH,
Sarah


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 18:23:12 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:23:12 +1000
Subject: bring Standalone to front
In-Reply-To: <AE7A82D7-1E30-4D2A-9973-2344A56DC674@sympatico.ca>
References: <AE7A82D7-1E30-4D2A-9973-2344A56DC674@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510111523u428ec586ybcdaaffc530ba6d5@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/12/05, Charles Silverman <charlessilverman at sympatico.ca> wrote:
> I'm using a systemwindow palette to leave my rev standalone and go
> find things in google. I'm not been able to figure out how get the
> palette to get my rev standalone back to the front again. A simple
> activate via applescript doesn't seem to do it.  With the application
> bundle on Mac OS X I'm not sure what the correct application name
> should even be. Any help would be appreciated. It may be really
> obvious but I'm just not getting it. Thanks!
> Thanks,
> Charles Silverman

I use this script for OS X:

    put "tell application " & quote & myAppName & quote & " to
activate" into tScript
    do tScript as AppleScript

myAppName is the name of the application bundle but without the .app extension.

This will launch the application if it isn't already running and can
be used for any OS X app e.g.
  tell application "TextEdit" to activate

Cheers,
Sarah


From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Oct 11 18:37:41 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:37:41 +0100
Subject: matchText handler not found
In-Reply-To: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F801A3A933@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>
References: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F801A3A933@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>
Message-ID: <434C3EB5.3010005@tweedly.net>

Harvey Toyama wrote:

>Hi,
>
>After yesterday's good advice on regex, I wanted to try "matchText". My
>installation (2.5.1) doesn't find the  handler. Is there something
>special about the matchText function. In fact, I don't recall any of the
>documented functions being found.
>  
>
matchText is not a handler, it's a function.
If you use it in a context where a handler would be used, you'll get the 
rather confusing message
"handler not found".

It should be used like:

  put matchText(someData, someExpr) into myVar

not simply as

   matchText(someData, someExpr)




-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/128 - Release Date: 10/10/2005



From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Oct 11 18:41:28 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:41:28 +0100
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <E38EA4A4-153F-47E3-AE48-C62DEED1A31D@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <BF7098B6.22805%scott@tactilemedia.com>	<434C20E4.C019ECBD@Club-Internet.fr>
	<E38EA4A4-153F-47E3-AE48-C62DEED1A31D@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <434C3F98.7030607@tweedly.net>

Trevor DeVore wrote:

> Well, that depends on what studio they are coming out of and the  
> quality of the sounds from their library :-)  It also depends on  
> whether the music produced was something that was paid for or  
> something that the person was doing for fun.  Now, if you are hiring  
> someone to do work for you and they are providing work that closely  
> resembles templates/presets from a popular app then you might want to  
> find someone else.
>
Hmmmm - Jack Vettriano comes to mind :-)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4305438.stm

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/128 - Release Date: 10/10/2005



From harvey.toyama at qlogic.com  Tue Oct 11 18:50:22 2005
From: harvey.toyama at qlogic.com (Harvey Toyama)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:50:22 -0700
Subject: matchText handler not found
Message-ID: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F801A3A965@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>

Hi Sara and Alex,
Thanks for the help. I did, in fact, have the sense of it wrong. My next
line was:

put the result ...

Your help is appreciated,
-- Harvey
-- 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Alex
Tweedly
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 3:38 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: matchText handler not found

Harvey Toyama wrote:

>Hi,
>
>After yesterday's good advice on regex, I wanted to try "matchText". My
>installation (2.5.1) doesn't find the  handler. Is there something
>special about the matchText function. In fact, I don't recall any of
the
>documented functions being found.
>  
>
matchText is not a handler, it's a function.
If you use it in a context where a handler would be used, you'll get the

rather confusing message
"handler not found".

It should be used like:

  put matchText(someData, someExpr) into myVar

not simply as

   matchText(someData, someExpr)




-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/128 - Release Date:
10/10/2005

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
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From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Oct 11 19:11:57 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 16:11:57 -0700
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <05F5E276-1BEA-414A-A23F-73254B361EC5@byu.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510102128430.2661-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<05F5E276-1BEA-414A-A23F-73254B361EC5@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <15827235582.20051011161157@ahsoftware.net>

Devin-

Tuesday, October 11, 2005, 3:00:57 PM, you wrote:

> Isn't this whole malleable template approach to word processing  
> exactly what Apple does with the new Pages word processor. I looked

To me it seems that they've taken a cue from skinnable apps. I'm most
intrigued by the "Developer" menu, and although it wasn't expounded
upon in the writeup there was mention made of being able to define
your own layouts. This isn't necessarily a bad thing at all, but it
does fit in quite well to the turn-everything-into-PowerPoint dumbing
down approach Microsoft has taken.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From revdan at danshafer.com  Tue Oct 11 19:12:42 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 16:12:42 -0700
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <434C3F98.7030607@tweedly.net>
References: <BF7098B6.22805%scott@tactilemedia.com>	<434C20E4.C019ECBD@Club-Internet.fr>
	<E38EA4A4-153F-47E3-AE48-C62DEED1A31D@mangomultimedia.com>
	<434C3F98.7030607@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <C1F12508-7A89-40C1-B7C1-00A494CC9C80@danshafer.com>

Or, at the risk of a firestorm raining down on my head, Thomas Kinkade.

Dan

On Oct 11, 2005, at 3:41 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Trevor DeVore wrote:
>
>
>> Well, that depends on what studio they are coming out of and the   
>> quality of the sounds from their library :-)  It also depends on   
>> whether the music produced was something that was paid for or   
>> something that the person was doing for fun.  Now, if you are  
>> hiring  someone to do work for you and they are providing work  
>> that closely  resembles templates/presets from a popular app then  
>> you might want to  find someone else.
>>
>>
> Hmmmm - Jack Vettriano comes to mind :-)
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4305438.stm
>
> -- 
> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/128 - Release Date:  
> 10/10/2005
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jhurley at infostations.com  Tue Oct 11 20:02:48 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:02:48 -0700
Subject: : Playing audio clips
In-Reply-To: <20051011162623.2D9EC8250ED@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051011162623.2D9EC8250ED@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230920bf71f598e458@[69.85.158.21]>

>
>Message: 13
>Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:42:26 -0700
>From: Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>
>Subject: Re: : Playing audio clips
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Message-ID: <BF712B72.2289B%scott at tactilemedia.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>Recently, Jim Hurley  wrote:
>
>>  I'm having trouble getting started. Apparently the sound file
>>  cannot  be an imported sound file but  a referenced file on disk.
>>
>>  So, I find I can start the play  with:
>>
>>   Play "/Users/jameshurley/Desktop/myAudio.wav"
>>
>>  Now, where does the player come in?
>
>  set the fileName of player myPlayer to \
>     "/Users/jameshurley/Desktop/myAudio.wav"
>
>To pause:
>  set the paused of player myPlayer to true
>
>To check player status:
>  get the paused of player myPlayer
>
>
>>  How do I get the player to
>>  control the play? How does the player pause, change volume or speed
>>  of this sound file?
>
>See player properties such as:
>  duration (media length)
>  currentTime (current player position)
>  playRate (speed)
>  playLoudness (volume)
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Scott Rossi
>Creative Director
>Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
>-

Thanks Scott. Just what I needed to get started.

New problem:  I have a scrollbar which I would like to use to  show 
the progress of the player. I have tried the following:

on update
   set the thumbposition of scrollbar "duration" to the currenttime of 
player myPlayer
   send "update" to me in 1 sec
end update

But the "Send" command momentarily interrupts the player and the 
speech is bumpy. Is there an asynchronous way to iterate the update 
without  using a "send" command?

Jim



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Tue Oct 11 20:23:41 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:23:41 -0400
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <BF718568.22903%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF718568.22903%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <76F468E8-9949-4017-AF66-A6BA9BEE7DEE@conncoll.edu>


On Oct 11, 2005, at 6:06 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> I think it's perfectly understandable that the musicians you cite  
> didn't
> want to learn how to program the equipment.  I'll wager the  
> majority of them
> wanted to spend their time making music, not learning an arcane  
> programming
> language.  And yet that didn't stop many notable artists from  
> making a name
> for themselves and learning how to push music technology.

I think what's involved is a question about what constitutes "making  
music" -- a question that was changed by the advent of programmable  
synths. For some synth musicians (certainly not all), programming  
*is* making music, since it's the texture & character of the patches  
that gives the final result much of its noticeability and interest.

It seems to me that "Office"-type applications are not like synths in  
this respect. A Whole New Look to office memos is a bad thing,  
distracting, not a good thing; memos are not art. If you're a  
typographer or graphic designer it's a different story -- but then  
you don't use MS Office.

Something like Rev, a programming environment, is half like Office  
(as an environment encouraging somewhat standardized work, so you  
don't have to *think* about the bookkeeping) and half -- the more  
interesting half -- like synths.

IMHO

Charles Hartman



From revdan at danshafer.com  Tue Oct 11 20:47:59 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:47:59 -0700
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <76F468E8-9949-4017-AF66-A6BA9BEE7DEE@conncoll.edu>
References: <BF718568.22903%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<76F468E8-9949-4017-AF66-A6BA9BEE7DEE@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <01C98BF1-DB99-4282-9FE0-F2C16E9F68C9@danshafer.com>

Charles....

I don't think that's what MS has in mind here, though it could be an  
unintended side effect. Rather, as I see it, they allow someone who  
has written a memo and who looks at the printout and finds it crowded  
to mouse over some alternate margin and spacing settings as graphical  
templates, immediately see the effect of applying that template, and  
then making a choice.

I know a lot of secretaries who'd like to be able to spiff up their  
boss' terribly formatted reports and memos but for whom the task is  
now too daunting.

Dan

On Oct 11, 2005, at 5:23 PM, Charles Hartman wrote:

> A Whole New Look to office memos is a bad thing, distracting, not a  
> good thing; memos are not art.



From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Oct 11 20:57:25 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:57:25 -0500
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <76F468E8-9949-4017-AF66-A6BA9BEE7DEE@conncoll.edu>
References: <BF718568.22903%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<76F468E8-9949-4017-AF66-A6BA9BEE7DEE@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <434C5F75.5030401@chipp.com>

Charles Hartman wrote:

> A Whole New Look to office memos is a bad thing,  
> distracting, not a good thing; memos are not art. If you're a  
> typographer or graphic designer it's a different story -- but then  you 
> don't use MS Office.

Charles, I respectfully disagree. Just like websites, many Office docs 
(including PowerPoint) are embellished by good design. My father is no 
designer, yet he works hard to create Word docs with his own look and 
feel focussed on usability. I'm always on the lookout for a really nice 
crisp proposal format for Word. And PowerPoint (another part of Office) 
even has a 3rd party market for 'new looks.'



From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Oct 11 21:17:41 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:17:41 -0400
Subject: Accumulating message box
Message-ID: <3dc5128b7a2169932d483ad4d1bd5acc@rpsystems.net>

Some time ago I had, with the help of someone from this list (maybe 
Jeanne Devoto?), modified my message box to accumulate messages rather 
than clearing it with each new message. I don't recall offhand how I 
did this.

Funny how much you forget when you develop a few large applications 
with other languages in between Rev usages.

Can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Wed Oct 12 01:06:27 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:06:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <434C5F75.5030401@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510112139560.1510-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

But, respectfully, they all LOOK ALIKE.  You can spot them from a mile
away.  They are fake; they not infrequently have nothing to do with the
content which they exist presumably to advance.  They were chosen for
being the least obnoxious of the predetermined lot.  Modifying them
doesn't even come into play.

I understand that my philosophical rant is viewed as yet another exercise
at the troll gym, but I believe the point bears repeating:

These things are trumpeted as ends in themselves, not means. Master's
candidates in Reading are taught that PowerPoint is an end, not a means.
M.S. candidates in Instructional Design and Technology are taught likewise
about FrontPage.  They are told that these things gain them admission to
the digeratii confraternity.  Form does indeed trump substance.

Because the people for whom these things are developed are at the lower
rings of the technology food chain, they not infrequently spend  more time
figuring out how to use all the pretty pictures than they spend on the
content itself (your father, who I don't know, possibly notwithstanding).

For our US audience, consider this:

http://www.norvig.com/Gettysburg/index.htm

Judy

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Charles, I respectfully disagree. Just like websites, many Office docs
> (including PowerPoint) are embellished by good design. My father is no
> designer, yet he works hard to create Word docs with his own look and
> feel focussed on usability. I'm always on the lookout for a really nice
> crisp proposal format for Word. And PowerPoint (another part of Office)
> even has a 3rd party market for 'new looks.'



From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Oct 12 02:05:20 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 01:05:20 -0500
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
Message-ID: <434CA7A0.1090206@chipp.com>

Ouch,

<rant on>

Precisely the problem I've had with academia for quite some time. I've
spent over 6 years on a local University Advisory Board helping
professors understand there's more to preparing students for the real
world than teaching theory. You gotta teach skills too.

In fact, back in grad school, the School of Architecture department
insisted on students learning 'skills' on their own time, and leave the
classroom for 'loftier learning experiences.' Of course, tenured
professors blew a gasket when all the architecture students came begging
for an architectural rendering class (which I did teach), in order to
better prepare their skills for getting a job.

Frankly, IMO the old master/apprentice approach had it much closer to
correct: Teach skills first. Without the ability to draw, how can you
expect them to design? I can tell you I've seen great successes using
the same strategy in multiple companies over the years.

IMO, you certainly have a low opinion of your students if you really
think they believe "These things are trumpeted as ends in themselves."
Any decent student will use it as yet another tool and stepping stone to
further their learning and carreer.

<rant off>

Judy Perry wrote:
> But, respectfully, they all LOOK ALIKE.  You can spot them from a mile
> away.  They are fake; they not infrequently have nothing to do with the
> content which they exist presumably to advance.  They were chosen for
> being the least obnoxious of the predetermined lot.  Modifying them
> doesn't even come into play.

Sounds like Flash to me. LOL
btw, good TROLLING Judy, you got me!




From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Oct 12 02:28:33 2005
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:28:33 +0200
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510112139560.1510-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510112139560.1510-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200706bf725c54f5e0@[10.0.0.95]>

At 10:06 PM -0700 10/11/05, Judy Perry wrote:
>But, respectfully, they all LOOK ALIKE.

These 'templets' or whatever they are called, are offered - you
are not forced to use them.

 From the mouth of the Beast on page:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/uioverview.mspx

"The traditional dialog box interfaces are still available for those wishing a
greater degree of control over the result of the operation."

Don't like 'em? - Don't use 'em.

ciao,
sims


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 12 02:42:20 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:42:20 -0700
Subject: Accumulating message box
In-Reply-To: <3dc5128b7a2169932d483ad4d1bd5acc@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BF71FE5C.2EEF0%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Do you mean the Rev msg box?

--try
put "this is a fine line"
put "another fine line I've gotten us into " & return & msg
put "...compared to the one below me" & return & msg

--or 
global gAppendedMsgs
put "" into gAppendMgs

put "this is a fine line"
put return & msg & return after gAppendedMsgs

put "another fine line I've gotten us into "
put return & msg & return after gAppendedMsgs

put "...compared to the one ABOVE me"
put return & msg & return after gAppendedMsgs
put gAppendMsgs
put "" into gAppendMgs  --unless you want to append msg to the appended msgs

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 10/11/05 6:17 PM, "Troy Rollins" <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:

> Some time ago I had, with the help of someone from this list (maybe
> Jeanne Devoto?), modified my message box to accumulate messages rather
> than clearing it with each new message. I don't recall offhand how I
> did this.
> 
> Funny how much you forget when you develop a few large applications
> with other languages in between Rev usages.
> 
> Can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks.
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From scott at proherp.com  Wed Oct 12 02:52:54 2005
From: scott at proherp.com (Scott Kane)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:52:54 +1000
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <434C1558.4020402@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <000201c5cef9$992451c0$0201010a@proherps56yaxv>


> IMO, the fact that MSWord saves files in their own proprietary markup 
> language *should* discourage anyone from ever using it. It'd sure be 
> cool if more adopted Massachusetts Open Doc policy. 
> http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,122685,00.asp

Hi Chipp,

I'm on the beta team for Office 2006 (Office 12).
It would seem, at this point, that they are going
to be making heavy use of XML as the file formats
for their app's.  If this pans out then it would
be most favorable, IMHO.

Scott Kane




From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Wed Oct 12 03:11:42 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:11:42 +0200
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <000201c5cef9$992451c0$0201010a@proherps56yaxv>
Message-ID: <OFB6C239AC.BAD39AFB-ONC1257098.002777EF-C1257098.0027444A@deutsche-boerse.com>

Given their HEAVY use of tags in word html or rtf exports, sounds scary 
already!


use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 12/10/2005 08:52:54:

> 
> > IMO, the fact that MSWord saves files in their own proprietary markup 
> > language *should* discourage anyone from ever using it. It'd sure be 
> > cool if more adopted Massachusetts Open Doc policy. 
> > http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,122685,00.asp
> 
> Hi Chipp,
> 
> I'm on the beta team for Office 2006 (Office 12).
> It would seem, at this point, that they are going
> to be making heavy use of XML as the file formats
> for their app's.  If this pans out then it would
> be most favorable, IMHO.
> 
> Scott Kane
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



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From dick.kriesel at mail.com  Wed Oct 12 03:04:02 2005
From: dick.kriesel at mail.com (Dick Kriesel)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 00:04:02 -0700
Subject: the inverse of the "owner" property; anomaly in dictionary entry
In-Reply-To: <BF707E9B.134BF%dick.kriesel@mail.com>
Message-ID: <BF720372.13536%dick.kriesel@mail.com>

On 10/10/05 8:24 PM, "Dick Kriesel" <dick.kriesel at mail.com> wrote:

> The property works for me, but does anyone see trouble with it?

Well, not that it's a hot topic, but yes, I do.  The function ignores the
backgrounds that a stack owns after they're removed from cards.

A revised version follows below.  But first: an anomaly in the Transcript
dictionary.  The entry for property "the backgroundNames" states:

The backgroundNames is the list of all backgrounds in the stack whose
backgroundBehavior property is set to true, whether they appear on the
current card or not.

While trying to see where removed groups go, I tried this:
1. create a new stack
2. create a group
3. check the group's properties to make sure its backgroundBehavior is off
4. remove the group from the card
5. check the backgroundNames of the stack to see that the group is there,
   contrary to what the dictionary says

Incidentally, placing the group back onto the card to check its
backgroundBehavior again shows it's off.

So a BugZilla entry seems appropriate.  Any comment, anyone?

-- Dick


postscript: (pun intended)

getProp ownees
  if first word of the target is "stack" then
    repeat for each line tSubstack in the substacks of the target
      put the name of stack tSubstack & return after tOwnees
    end repeat
    repeat for each line tGroup in the backgroundNames of the target
      if first word of the owner of bg tGroup is "stack" then
        put the name of bg tGroup & return after tOwnees
      end if
    end repeat
    put the cardNames of the target after tOwnees
  else
    put abbr id of the target into tOwner
    repeat with i = 1 to number of controls in tOwner
      if abbr id of the owner of control i of tOwner is tOwner then
        put name of control i of tOwner & return after tOwnees
      end if
    end repeat
    delete last char of tOwnees
  end if
  return tOwnees
end ownees






From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Oct 12 03:20:51 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 00:20:51 -0700
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <000201c5cef9$992451c0$0201010a@proherps56yaxv>
References: <000201c5cef9$992451c0$0201010a@proherps56yaxv>
Message-ID: <9984FCFA-74F1-4E62-B045-C3AFA8DBC371@danshafer.com>

Yes, but by all accounts, it will be a special, proprietary XML that  
they won't open. And they've publicly stated that they will NOT  
support OpenFormat, which is an XML standard format.

Dan

On Oct 11, 2005, at 11:52 PM, Scott Kane wrote:

>
>
>> IMO, the fact that MSWord saves files in their own proprietary markup
>> language *should* discourage anyone from ever using it. It'd sure be
>> cool if more adopted Massachusetts Open Doc policy.
>> http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,122685,00.asp
>>
>
> Hi Chipp,
>
> I'm on the beta team for Office 2006 (Office 12).
> It would seem, at this point, that they are going
> to be making heavy use of XML as the file formats
> for their app's.  If this pans out then it would
> be most favorable, IMHO.
>
> Scott Kane
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Wed Oct 12 05:11:05 2005
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:11:05 +0200
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
References: <BF718568.22903%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <434CD327.B2299198@Club-Internet.fr>



Scott ,

> I must be missing the point of your post.  MS claims to be providing more
> templates and making the UI easier to use.  To use your example, they're
> adding even more presets and converting the tiny LCD into a full color
> display.  Whether they succeed remains to be seen, but the goal seems pretty
> worthwhile to me.
>
> I think it's perfectly understandable that the musicians you cite didn't
> want to learn how to program the equipment.  I'll wager the majority of them
> wanted to spend their time making music, not learning an arcane programming
> language.  And yet that didn't stop many notable artists from making a name
> for themselves and learning how to push music technology.
>
> I will also wager that the upcoming Office Suite, just like many current
> Macromedia/Adobe products, will allow you launch the various apps without
> using a template -- in essence, starting with a blank page.
>
> I have to say I don't see how having more choices can be seen as a negative.
>

Again it's about the difference between theory and real life.

Let's go back to synths for a minute : when Yamaha launched the DX7 in the
80's, it was the first commercial synth that implemented a version of Chowning's
FM synthesis. That synth included presets that reproduced the sound of existing
instruments (electric piano or slapped bass), but it was mainly to prove the power
of FM synthesis, and the DX7 was clearly an electronic synthesis device offering
a new synthesis technique to the masses.
>From that point of view I feel it was a big waste to use that synth only for the presets
of electric piano or slapped bass. Of course, it gave the possibility of home musicians
(who couldn't afford a real electric piano, or who didn't have the skills to play slapped
bass) to include such sounds in their music, but anyway they were missing the
biggest part of the story. If an analogy is needed, it's like buying a Rev licence,
but never using Transcript...

As for computers UIs, I guess that, if a new trend of goal-oriented interfaces arises,
it won't limit to MS Office... And we might see a multiplication of templates in almost
every app...

So, to take the discussion a little further, here's what (IMHO) could be a step forward
to a real goal-oriented UI : users would have the possibility to describe (via a set of
commands or even a structured language) the goal they're reaching. And the app would
be smart enough to produce documents as closed as possible as the original description,
along with all editing possibilities to fine tune the result. In case of a description
language,
little "misunderstandings" in the interpretation of the description given by the user could
even lead to some productive / exciting random "accidents"... A very limited set of basic
templates could be also provided, but not sophisticated enough to kill imagination.

IMHO this would be a very exciting challenge, both in terms of ergonomics and coding...

Note to the Microsoft guys who are listening : this is just a raw idea; I have plenty of
other similar ideas. Hire me as a consultant if you want to improve the image of your
company...   ;-)

JB



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Wed Oct 12 05:16:23 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:16:23 +0100
Subject: Background Group Question
In-Reply-To: <9984FCFA-74F1-4E62-B045-C3AFA8DBC371@danshafer.com>
References: <000201c5cef9$992451c0$0201010a@proherps56yaxv>
	<9984FCFA-74F1-4E62-B045-C3AFA8DBC371@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bf7281fece37@[192.168.0.100]>

Hi,

I have a stack with two cards. There are 4 Common Background Groups 
and one Group that is unique in each card. At startup I build a 
look-up table (array) which uses the long name of each control as a 
key. Once the stack is running the code looks up values for certain 
fields and menu's using the long name of the current control to 
access the table/array.

I use the following to build the table at startup:

repeat with myCardIndex = 1 to the number of cards in stack myStackLongName
   repeat with myControl index = 1 to the number of controls in card 
myCardIndex of stack  myStackLongName
   put the long name of control myControlIndex into myControlLongName
   put GetControlData(myControlLongName) into myControlData
   put myControlData into myControlArray[myControlLongName]
   end repeat
end repeat

The problem with this is that for background I only get one entry 
returned (the entry of the 1st card in the stack), so that the 
following doesn't work when run from a card other than the 1st card:

put LookUpControl(the long name of me) into myControlData

How can I add the entries for background object on cards other than 
the 1st card?

Thanks a lot
All the Best
Dave




From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Wed Oct 12 05:33:57 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:33:57 -0700
Subject: Image woes...
Message-ID: <BF722695.38777%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

It's late but I can't seem to figure this out..


I saved a  PNG to disk using

put img "image" into URL "binfile:/<pathToPng>"

Now I want to get it back into an image control


Why can't I use?

Put URL "binfile:/<pathToPng>" into img "image"

I am getting an empty image.

What am I missing?

Thanks

Todd


Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Wed Oct 12 07:15:49 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:15:49 +0100
Subject: Image woes...
In-Reply-To: <BF722695.38777%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
References: <BF722695.38777%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bf72a084bb5c@[192.168.0.100]>

>It's late but I can't seem to figure this out..
>
>
>I saved a  PNG to disk using
>
>put img "image" into URL "binfile:/<pathToPng>"
>
>Now I want to get it back into an image control
>
>
>Why can't I use?
>
>Put URL "binfile:/<pathToPng>" into img "image"
>
>I am getting an empty image.
>
>What am I missing?

try:

set the filename of image "Image" to myFileFullPathName

(It will probably work with the URL notation too, but not sure)

Hope this helps
Dave




From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Oct 12 07:59:05 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:59:05 +0200
Subject: Image woes...
In-Reply-To: <BF722695.38777%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
References: <BF722695.38777%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <07E03BEE-9897-4D9A-A360-F19298D49A32@major-k.de>

Hi Todd,

> It's late but I can't seem to figure this out..
>
> I saved a  PNG to disk using
> put img "image" into URL "binfile:/<pathToPng>"
>
> Now I want to get it back into an image control
>
> Why can't I use?
> Put URL "binfile:/<pathToPng>" into img "image"
> I am getting an empty image.
> What am I missing?

Hmm, that does work actually, i use this almost everyday.

Did you check the image on disk with an image viewer?
Maybe it got corrupted somehow...

> Thanks
>
> Todd
>
> Todd Geist
> ______________________________________
> g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Wed Oct 12 08:08:45 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Wouter)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:08:45 +0200
Subject: num of bgs versus num of grps
Message-ID: <DBAE8F4B-A514-4EAC-A694-5C5428D7D58C@scarlet.be>

Hi All,

As there is a lot to do about background groups may be this is the  
right time to ask about a completely undocumented feature (at least I  
cannot find any reference to it (and I know this is not a reference  
either :-))

< put the number of backgrounds > is different from (though the docs  
state group and background as equivalent)   < put the number of groups >

"put the number of groups" : will report the total number of groups  
on the current card (and not in the complete stack if it is a  
multicard stack)

"put the number of backgrounds" : will  report the number of groups  
to be found at cardlevel of a complete stack (one or multicard stack).

in a 1 card stack:
   -  If there are several groups  it will report the number of  
groups, whether the backgroundbehavior is set or not
   -  if there is a group in a group in a .......   it will be  
counted as 1 group
in a multicard stack:
   -  it will report the total number of groups at cardlevel in that  
stack
         3 groups on each of 2 cards without backgroundbehavior set  
to true will be reported as 6 groups
   -  if the backgroundproperty of a group is set to true it will be  
counted only once
          3 groups on each of 2 cards with  backgroundbehavior of 1  
group set to true will be reported as 5 groups

Can anyone confirm this?
TIA
Greetings,
Wouter


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Oct 12 09:18:25 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:18:25 +0200
Subject: : Playing audio clips
In-Reply-To: <p06230920bf71f598e458@[69.85.158.21]>
References: <20051011162623.2D9EC8250ED@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230920bf71f598e458@[69.85.158.21]>
Message-ID: <682BC880-2F90-4FDA-875A-7F7E46F1A7E8@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Jim,

You might be interested in "How to Monitor a QuickTime Player by  
Script", a tutorial available through "Tutorials Picker".
On my website or Rev Online (user: So Smart Software)

> This stack shows you how to monitor a QT player to play music (mp3  
> included) and provide all the usual commands, and more, to the user.
> How to know if the right version of QT is installed, manage  
> durations, progress, quick searches, sound level, loops, play- 
> lists, etc.
> The main commands are embedded in a scripted group, which you can  
> export into any project. This scripted group is able to monitor,  
> not only sound files, but also the video files as well.
> Print function included.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 12 oct. 05 ? 02:02, Jim Hurley a ?crit :

> New problem:  I have a scrollbar which I would like to use to  show  
> the progress of the player. I have tried the following:
>
> on update
>   set the thumbposition of scrollbar "duration" to the currenttime  
> of player myPlayer
>   send "update" to me in 1 sec
> end update
>
> But the "Send" command momentarily interrupts the player and the  
> speech is bumpy. Is there an asynchronous way to iterate the update  
> without  using a "send" command?

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Oct 12 09:52:21 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:52:21 -0400
Subject: Accumulating message box
In-Reply-To: <BF71FE5C.2EEF0%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
References: <BF71FE5C.2EEF0%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <32a7ea1bb42db518b03aab15d68756a9@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 12, 2005, at 2:42 AM, Jim Ault wrote:

> Do you mean the Rev msg box?

Yes that one.  ;-) And thanks for the thoughts, but I'm talking about 
modifying its stack so that it does clear between "Puts", but 
automatically adds CR and the new message, always and for any stack 
that puts to the msg box.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Oct 12 09:55:58 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:55:58 -0400
Subject: Accumulating message box
In-Reply-To: <32a7ea1bb42db518b03aab15d68756a9@rpsystems.net>
References: <BF71FE5C.2EEF0%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
	<32a7ea1bb42db518b03aab15d68756a9@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <407a825fb3229b97e33d94e24bb7fd93@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 12, 2005, at 9:52 AM, Troy Rollins wrote:

> And thanks for the thoughts, but I'm talking about modifying its stack 
> so that it does clear between "Puts"

Ooops... does NOT clear between "Puts"
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From bvlahos at mac.com  Wed Oct 12 10:14:58 2005
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 07:14:58 -0700
Subject: Use of the encryption features in 2.6
Message-ID: <d779b2a13bc5fc44a2e550149b52f74f@mac.com>

Has anyone published a description of how to use the encryption 
features of 2.6?

I have a program that stores data in custom properties on several cards 
(major catagories) which I want to encrypt. It would be nice to click a 
check box to automatically encrypt the entire stack but I don't think 
it works that way.

I'm assuming that I need to encrypt the data before putting it into the 
custom property and decrypt it when bringing it out. This doesn't sound 
that hard but very tedious. The nature of this program requires that it 
will be doing this all the time that it is running so it can always be 
in a "saved" state on the drive.

The docs are pretty clear on what the parameters are but not on how I 
would actually implement this in a real program.

Is there a tutorial somewhere that I missed?

Thanks,
Bill Vlahos



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Wed Oct 12 11:53:01 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:53:01 -0400
Subject: importing an image from a window that is offscreen
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A99682DD@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

Is there any way to use the import snapshot command to take an image
from a stack that is located to the right or left of the screen?


Right now, when I try it, it does not work. Basically, it seems that it
does not draw anything that is offscreen, and thus cannot take a picture
of it. Can I force it do so?



From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Wed Oct 12 12:28:20 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Wouter)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:28:20 +0200
Subject: importing an image from a window that is offscreen
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A99682DD@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A99682DD@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <A8ADFE4C-9884-4F16-8555-C4EE57BAA3D6@scarlet.be>

Hi,

Yes you can.
Use and adapt the scripts of this thread:
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-January/ 
028585.html

Greetings,
Wouter



On 12 Oct 2005, at 17:53, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

> Is there any way to use the import snapshot command to take an image
> from a stack that is located to the right or left of the screen?
>
>
> Right now, when I try it, it does not work. Basically, it seems  
> that it
> does not draw anything that is offscreen, and thus cannot take a  
> picture
> of it. Can I force it do so?
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Oct 12 12:26:26 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:26:26 -0400
Subject: libCGI?
Message-ID: <5f7293db6ac2faab698b9c9be31df779@rpsystems.net>

Hi all,

I'm looking to get Rev-CGI up and running. Sounds like Rodney Tamblin's 
libCGI stack would be useful, but all the links for it are dead. Does 
anyone have a copy available?

Also, I know my (external) web server is Linux based, while my internal 
testing server is OSX server. I mostly want to determine what engine I 
need to place on my Linux server. Pointers? Should I download the 
entire Linux installation and pull the engine out to upload to my 
server?

Also - many thanks to Jacqueline Landman Gay and HyperActive software 
for the nice CGI tutorial pages. Very helpful.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Oct 12 12:27:51 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:27:51 -0700
Subject: importing an image from a window that is offscreen
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A99682DD@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <BF728797.229C5%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Lynch, Jonathan  wrote:

> Is there any way to use the import snapshot command to take an image
> from a stack that is located to the right or left of the screen?
> 
> 
> Right now, when I try it, it does not work. Basically, it seems that it
> does not draw anything that is offscreen, and thus cannot take a picture
> of it. Can I force it do so?

If you're using a recent version of Rev, it should work as expected (maybe
2.5 or later).  Tested here and it works fine.  Make sure you're using the
correct rect description of the region you want to capture.

 import snapshot from rect tRect of window tWindowID

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Wed Oct 12 12:32:01 2005
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:32:01 -0400
Subject: importing an image from a window that is offscreen
Message-ID: <OF97ADAB3A.F478A4F3-ON85257098.005A96A9@sealedair.com>

> Is there any way to use the import snapshot command to take an image
> from a stack that is located to the right or left of the screen?

I would like this ability too, however I don't believe it is currently 
possible. In these situations, I typically access the imageData to get 
what I need.

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>



From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Oct 12 12:36:55 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:36:55 -0700
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <434CD327.B2299198@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <BF718568.22903%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<434CD327.B2299198@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <67F8C4B4-68C6-48EE-92F3-953A77A95EB0@danshafer.com>

Think of Revolution (or perhaps more appropriately Dreamcard) in this  
context. If we could define, say, 10 or 12 basic application types  
that have a significant number of elements in common within each and  
make it possible to get a big head start in creating an app by  
choosing what we can think of as a template for that type of  
application, and if we could do that without limiting what you could  
do to the resulting semi-auto-generated code, where would be the harm?


On Oct 12, 2005, at 2:11 AM, jbv wrote:

> So, to take the discussion a little further, here's what (IMHO)  
> could be a step forward
> to a real goal-oriented UI : users would have the possibility to  
> describe (via a set of
> commands or even a structured language) the goal they're reaching.  
> And the app would
> be smart enough to produce documents as closed as possible as the  
> original description,
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Wed Oct 12 12:40:42 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:40:42 -0400
Subject: importing an image from a window that is offscreen
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A99682DE@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

Thanks...

There are quite a few postings on that page - can you tell me the title
of one of the postings?

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Wouter
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 12:28 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: importing an image from a window that is offscreen

Hi,

Yes you can.
Use and adapt the scripts of this thread:
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-January/ 
028585.html

Greetings,
Wouter



On 12 Oct 2005, at 17:53, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

> Is there any way to use the import snapshot command to take an image
> from a stack that is located to the right or left of the screen?
>
>
> Right now, when I try it, it does not work. Basically, it seems  
> that it
> does not draw anything that is offscreen, and thus cannot take a  
> picture
> of it. Can I force it do so?
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Oct 12 12:57:56 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:57:56 -0400
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510112139560.1510-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510112139560.1510-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <f73509dd429cf7f77a1ddf6c1c000030@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 12, 2005, at 1:06 AM, Judy Perry wrote:

> But, respectfully, they all LOOK ALIKE.  You can spot them from a mile
> away.  They are fake; they not infrequently have nothing to do with the
> content which they exist presumably to advance.  They were chosen for
> being the least obnoxious of the predetermined lot.  Modifying them
> doesn't even come into play.

Less than creative, yes. "Fake"? How so? After all, they were designed 
by _someone_. Probably with more design skills than the typical user. 
When used, they still communicate thoughts and ideas, and due to 
templates being provided by professionals, they do it with better 
presentation than most casual users would do otherwise. Face it, 
without such tools, many people would just publish their thoughts and 
ideas looking like crap or not at all. Is the intent to weed out the 
"weak" by ensuring that the tools require professional design 
capability on the part of all users?

Not all people who have something to convey also have design skills to 
support that. As you've noted, even _with_ templates, they _still_ make 
poor design choices. What would make us think they would do any better 
without them? At least with them, they have a shot at a polished, if 
not unique, look.

It's true that most users will not use them as a launch-point, but 
rather a definition. So? What would those same users do otherwise? 
Probably nothing you would want to look at.

So, in effect, the templates provide the users with a design capability 
they would otherwise not have.

As software developers, don't we constantly provide capability the 
users would otherwise not have? Should we just tell them that using our 
software is "Fake", and they should just write their own? Oops. Maybe 
this list is not the right place to pose that question.  But you get 
the idea. ;-)

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Oct 12 12:59:05 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:59:05 -0400
Subject: importing an image from a window that is offscreen
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A99682DE@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A99682DE@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <c8f2870d614a32336d1b1dad6d7e7a6a@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 12, 2005, at 12:40 PM, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-January/
> 028585.html

The link was broken across lines. Try this -
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-January/ 
028585.html>
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From revlist at cableone.net  Wed Oct 12 13:07:26 2005
From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:07:26 -0600
Subject: automated testing tools (slightly OT)
Message-ID: <68A6A28A-0ED5-4DBC-B74B-04CF00D6B5E0@cableone.net>

This is probably a little bit off topic, but I'm wanting to find out  
if any of you are using any type of automated testing tools with  
Revolution.  I'm thinking something like scripts or whatever that  
will perform tasks that your end-users would perform.  Does anything  
like that exist that can be used Revolution-built apps?

Thanks,
Chris

------------------------------------------
Chris Sheffield
Read Naturally
The Fluency Company
http://www.readnaturally.com
------------------------------------------




From SimPLsol at aol.com  Wed Oct 12 13:20:13 2005
From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:20:13 EDT
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
Message-ID: <1e0.4643d7a3.307e9fcd@aol.com>

 


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Wed Oct 12 13:24:18 2005
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:24:18 -0400
Subject: automated testing tools (slightly OT)
Message-ID: <OF821C32E1.0F366071-ON85257098.005E97E3@sealedair.com>

> This is probably a little bit off topic, but I'm wanting to find out
> if any of you are using any type of automated testing tools with
> Revolution.  I'm thinking something like scripts or whatever that
> will perform tasks that your end-users would perform.  Does anything
> like that exist that can be used Revolution-built apps?
> 
> Thanks,
> Chris
> 
> ------------------------------------------
> Chris Sheffield
> Read Naturally
> The Fluency Company
> http://www.readnaturally.com
> ------------------------------------------

That's funny, I used to work with a guy who could mess up a bad day. So I 
would use him to test all of my software. No matter how many user-error 
scenarios I could imagine and code to prevent, he would somehow find a new 
one. An automated approach could be something like random clicks (left, 
middle, and right) covering every pixel of every stack window, and random 
keyboard input when a text field is detected. It would be like using a 
monkey to do your testing (but not as entertaining). ;-)

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>



From SimPLsol at aol.com  Wed Oct 12 13:26:02 2005
From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:26:02 EDT
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
Message-ID: <12d.66c14281.307ea12a@aol.com>

Dan,
I agree completely.
HyperCard "hooked" me with the Addresses stack. I added one field 
("Birthdays", so when I looked up someone's phone number I could see if there were any 
birthdays or anniversaries in the family in the next week or so) and never 
looked back.
It would be nice to have   a basic Rev. Addresses, Calendar, Calculator, 
Spreadsheet, Browser, Database, etc.
Ironically most of this already exists in a scattered fashion.
It would make training so much easier if there were standard versions of each 
of the above - and we could be sure every Rev. user was familiar with these 
basic items.
Paul Looney


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Oct 12 13:27:14 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:27:14 -0700
Subject: automated testing tools (slightly OT)
In-Reply-To: <68A6A28A-0ED5-4DBC-B74B-04CF00D6B5E0@cableone.net>
References: <68A6A28A-0ED5-4DBC-B74B-04CF00D6B5E0@cableone.net>
Message-ID: <434D4772.6030803@fourthworld.com>

Chris Sheffield wrote:
> This is probably a little bit off topic, but I'm wanting to find out  if 
> any of you are using any type of automated testing tools with  
> Revolution.  I'm thinking something like scripts or whatever that  will 
> perform tasks that your end-users would perform.  Does anything  like 
> that exist that can be used Revolution-built apps?

It wouldn't be too hard to write a "black box" which records user 
actions using a frontScript, but it would be ever so much easier if the 
messageHandled message also passed params:

<http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=2569>

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Oct 12 13:28:49 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:28:49 -0700
Subject: importing an image from a window that is offscreen
In-Reply-To: <c8f2870d614a32336d1b1dad6d7e7a6a@rpsystems.net>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A99682DE@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<c8f2870d614a32336d1b1dad6d7e7a6a@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <434D47D1.7010806@fourthworld.com>

Troy Rollins wrote:
> 
> On Oct 12, 2005, at 12:40 PM, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:
> 
>> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-January/
>> 028585.html
> 
> 
> The link was broken across lines. Try this -
> <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-January/ 
> 028585.html>

For some reason it seems some email clients put a space in there -- 
here's one without the space:

<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-January/028585.html>

Maybe it'll come through unbroken, maybe not.

Inconsequential either way, unfortunately:  that script break under OS X 
(hard crash).

Would be nice if there was a built-in way to do that.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Oct 12 13:34:22 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:34:22 -0700
Subject: importing an image from a window that is offscreen
In-Reply-To: <434D47D1.7010806@fourthworld.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A99682DE@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<c8f2870d614a32336d1b1dad6d7e7a6a@rpsystems.net>
	<434D47D1.7010806@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <434D491E.5090008@fourthworld.com>

Richard Gaskin wrote:
> For some reason it seems some email clients put a space in there -- 
> here's one without the space:
> 
> <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-January/028585.html>
> 
> Maybe it'll come through unbroken, maybe not.
> 
> Inconsequential either way, unfortunately:  that script break under OS X 
> (hard crash).
> 
> Would be nice if there was a built-in way to do that.

Ignore that post:  I just tried this latest script on OS X and it seems 
to work.

Anyone know when/how this was fixed?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct 12 13:37:35 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:37:35 -0500
Subject: Use of the encryption features in 2.6
In-Reply-To: <d779b2a13bc5fc44a2e550149b52f74f@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BF72B40F.2D885%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/12/05 9:14 AM, "Bill Vlahos" <bvlahos at mac.com> wrote:

> The docs are pretty clear on what the parameters are but not on how I
> would actually implement this in a real program.
> 
> Is there a tutorial somewhere that I missed?

Not that I'm aware of, but Dar Scott did a presentation on "Secrets of
Encryption and SSL" at the Monterey RevCon; I'll send you the stack he
presented off-list.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 12 13:43:45 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:43:45 -0500
Subject: libCGI?
In-Reply-To: <5f7293db6ac2faab698b9c9be31df779@rpsystems.net>
References: <5f7293db6ac2faab698b9c9be31df779@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <434D4B51.60705@hyperactivesw.com>

Troy Rollins wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm looking to get Rev-CGI up and running. Sounds like Rodney Tamblin's 
> libCGI stack would be useful, but all the links for it are dead. Does 
> anyone have a copy available?

I believe I saw it recently on RevOnline. Check out the developer utilities.

> 
> Also, I know my (external) web server is Linux based, while my internal 
> testing server is OSX server. I mostly want to determine what engine I 
> need to place on my Linux server. Pointers? Should I download the entire 
> Linux installation and pull the engine out to upload to my server?

You could. Or easier, download only the engine here:

<ftp://ftp.runrev.com/pub/revolution/downloads/engines/>

> 
> Also - many thanks to Jacqueline Landman Gay and HyperActive software 
> for the nice CGI tutorial pages. Very helpful.

Thanks -- good to hear. At least it isn't taking up space there for 
nothing. ;)


> 
> -- 
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Wed Oct 12 13:44:01 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Buster)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 19:44:01 +0200
Subject: importing an image from a window that is offscreen
In-Reply-To: <434D47D1.7010806@fourthworld.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A99682DE@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<c8f2870d614a32336d1b1dad6d7e7a6a@rpsystems.net>
	<434D47D1.7010806@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <87EF2504-31B1-490B-8F1F-A17AD6403723@scarlet.be>

Hi,

I don't know what happens to others that use that script, but I have  
a perfectly working stack here.
Works in rev 2.6.1 too. (only made some 2 steps a 1 step)

Nevertheless Scott Rossi's proposition works also on hidden and  
offscreen stacks and is much simpler.

Greetings,
Wouter


On 12 Oct 2005, at 19:28, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Troy Rollins wrote:
>
>> On Oct 12, 2005, at 12:40 PM, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:
>>
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-January/
>>> 028585.html
>>>
>> The link was broken across lines. Try this -
>> <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-January/  
>> 028585.html>
>>
>
> For some reason it seems some email clients put a space in there --  
> here's one without the space:
>
> <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-January/ 
> 028585.html>
>
> Maybe it'll come through unbroken, maybe not.
>
> Inconsequential either way, unfortunately:  that script break under  
> OS X (hard crash).
>
> Would be nice if there was a built-in way to do that.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Managing Editor, revJournal
>  _______________________________________________________
>  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Oct 12 13:54:51 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:54:51 -0400
Subject: libCGI?
In-Reply-To: <434D4B51.60705@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <5f7293db6ac2faab698b9c9be31df779@rpsystems.net>
	<434D4B51.60705@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <a803cf9c278914cd5ea06ae8e7ad45e2@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 12, 2005, at 1:43 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> You could. Or easier, download only the engine here:
>
> <ftp://ftp.runrev.com/pub/revolution/downloads/engines/>

Grabbed it. Thanks again.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Wed Oct 12 13:52:05 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:52:05 -0400
Subject: importing an image from a window that is offscreen
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A99682DF@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

I am on a pc, using 2.5, and simply importing from the rect does not
work - if the image is halfway off the screen, then the imported image
will be cut in half! If the image is all the way off the screen, then
there is nothing in the imported image.

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Buster
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 1:44 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: importing an image from a window that is offscreen

Hi,

I don't know what happens to others that use that script, but I have  
a perfectly working stack here.
Works in rev 2.6.1 too. (only made some 2 steps a 1 step)

Nevertheless Scott Rossi's proposition works also on hidden and  
offscreen stacks and is much simpler.

Greetings,
Wouter


On 12 Oct 2005, at 19:28, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Troy Rollins wrote:
>
>> On Oct 12, 2005, at 12:40 PM, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:
>>
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-January/
>>> 028585.html
>>>
>> The link was broken across lines. Try this -
>> <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-January/  
>> 028585.html>
>>
>
> For some reason it seems some email clients put a space in there --  
> here's one without the space:
>
> <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-January/ 
> 028585.html>
>
> Maybe it'll come through unbroken, maybe not.
>
> Inconsequential either way, unfortunately:  that script break under  
> OS X (hard crash).
>
> Would be nice if there was a built-in way to do that.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Managing Editor, revJournal
>  _______________________________________________________
>  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From todd at geistinteractive.com  Mon Oct 10 18:09:35 2005
From: todd at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:09:35 -0700
Subject: Scale to fit
Message-ID: <BF7034AF.384FC%todd@geistinteractive.com>

Hello

I have an image on a card and would like to scale it to fit in a button
dynamically.

In other words as the button gets bigger the icon should until it reaches
its actual size.

I can handle the button getting bigger, but I have no idea how to accomplish
making the icon scale.

Anybody have any examples?

Thanks

Todd





-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From supote.songthammawat at netgalileo.com  Mon Oct 10 23:28:47 2005
From: supote.songthammawat at netgalileo.com (Supote Songthammawat)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:28:47 +0700
Subject: insert data into database problem
Message-ID: <434B316F.3040703@netgalileo.com>

Dear Sir,
 
        I have  some problem about insert data by sql into database. Why 
I can't not to insert into database? When I press button save  it will 
occur :

1 (Create PersonSysID) : u just add [Sybase][ODBC Driver][Adaptive 
Server Enterprise] The name "khunnawut" is illegal in this context. Only 
constant, constant expressions, or variables allowed here. Column names 
are illegal. record into DB
 
 My script below of save button below:

put revDataFromQuery (,return, tID, "SELECT MAX(personSysID) FROM 
PERSON_TABLE") into tNewEnPersonSysIds
  
  answer tNewEnPersonSysIds
  
  if tNewEnPersonSysIds is empty then
    put 1 into tNewEnPersonSysIds
  else
    put tNewEnPersonSysIds + 1 into tNewEnPersonSysIds
  end if
  
  answer tNewEnPersonSysIds
  
  put tNewEnPersonSysIds into tNewPersonSysIds
  put fld "FirstName" into tFirstName
  put fld "LastName" into tLastName
  put fld "MiddleName" into tMiddleName
  put text of fld "DateofBirth" into tDateofBirth
  put 1 into tPersonTitleCode
  put the hilitedButtonName of group "Identification" into tGenderCode
  put 1 into tDeceasedIndicator
  put 1 into tOrganDonorIndicator
  put 1 into tMultipleBirthIndicator
  
  put tNewPersonSysIds, tFirstName, tLastName, tMiddleName, 
tDateofBirth, tPersonTitleCode, \
      tGenderCode, tDeceasedIndicator, tOrganDonorIndicator, 
tMultipleBirthIndicator into tPersonEntTbl
 
  put "INSERT INTO PERSON_TABLE(personSysID, firstName, lastName, " \
      &&  "middleName, dateOfBirth, personTitleCode, genderCode, 
deceasedIndicator, " \
      && "organDonorIndicator, multipleBirthIndicator) VALUES 
("&tPersonEntTbl&")" into tSql
 
  revExecuteSQL tID, tSql
 
  answer "1 (Create PersonSysID) : u just add "&the result&" record into DB"
 


I think I must convert to unidecode before insert , correct?
Please suggest me to solve this problem. Thank you very much.
Urgently!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Best Regards,
Supote


From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Oct 12 14:00:24 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:00:24 -0400
Subject: libCGI?
In-Reply-To: <5f7293db6ac2faab698b9c9be31df779@rpsystems.net>
References: <5f7293db6ac2faab698b9c9be31df779@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <912249dd6072212141b10010eecc00d6@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 12, 2005, at 12:26 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

> Rodney Tamblin's libCGI stack would be useful

Apologies on the spelling. Rodney Tamblyn, of course.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Oct 12 14:06:37 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:06:37 -0700
Subject: importing an image from a window that is offscreen
In-Reply-To: <434D491E.5090008@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BF729EBD.229E8%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Richard Gaskin  wrote:

>> <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-January/028585.html>
>> 
>> Maybe it'll come through unbroken, maybe not.
>> 
>> Inconsequential either way, unfortunately:  that script break under OS X
>> (hard crash).
>> 
>> Would be nice if there was a built-in way to do that.
> 
> Ignore that post:  I just tried this latest script on OS X and it seems
> to work.
> 
> Anyone know when/how this was fixed?

Er, is this thread still about producing a snapshot from an offscreen
location?  If so, the standard "import snapshot..." routine works fine, as
of 2.5, or thereabouts.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Wed Oct 12 14:08:49 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:08:49 -0700
Subject: sharedVisible enhancement?
Message-ID: <p06200704bf72ff0e0e0a@[10.0.1.2]>

If bg field text can be different on each card containing the group, 
or shared by each instance of the bg field then...

Why couldn't the visible be handled in a similar way? With the 
(hypothetical) sharedvisible set to true, every instance of that bg 
field would be either visible or invisible. With the sharedvisible 
set to false, I could hide an instance of the bg field on one card, 
but the same field would still be visible on other cards.

I guess the same property could also apply to bg buttons.

I know there are other ways to make bg fields or buttons visible or 
not on a card-by-card basis. Several of my stacks do it. But that 
normally requires an on openCard handler, or something of the like, 
along with a container for data regarding the required visibility for 
the field on that card. At least that's the way I do it. It's 
do-able, but a small pain, and adds one more handler to already 
complex scripts. Maybe there's a better way.

Worthy suggestion? I haven't submitted an enhancement request to BZ 
yet. Maybe it's not worthy.


Cheers,


Tim


From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Wed Oct 12 14:19:34 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:19:34 -0400
Subject: importing an image from a window that is offscreen
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A99682E0@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

I just installed 2.6.1 on my machine, and tried this, and it did not
work. Is this a pc vs. mac thing?

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Rossi
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 2:07 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: importing an image from a window that is offscreen

Recently, Richard Gaskin  wrote:

>>
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-January/028585.ht
ml>
>> 
>> Maybe it'll come through unbroken, maybe not.
>> 
>> Inconsequential either way, unfortunately:  that script break under
OS X
>> (hard crash).
>> 
>> Would be nice if there was a built-in way to do that.
> 
> Ignore that post:  I just tried this latest script on OS X and it
seems
> to work.
> 
> Anyone know when/how this was fixed?

Er, is this thread still about producing a snapshot from an offscreen
location?  If so, the standard "import snapshot..." routine works fine,
as
of 2.5, or thereabouts.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Oct 12 14:22:09 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:22:09 -0700
Subject: importing an image from a window that is offscreen
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A99682DF@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <BF72A261.229F2%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Lynch, Jonathan  wrote:

> I am on a pc, using 2.5, and simply importing from the rect does not
> work - if the image is halfway off the screen, then the imported image
> will be cut in half! If the image is all the way off the screen, then
> there is nothing in the imported image.

Perhaps a version later than 2.5 is needed -- not exactly sure when this
feature was added.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Oct 12 14:41:02 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:41:02 -0700
Subject: automated testing tools (slightly OT)
In-Reply-To: <68A6A28A-0ED5-4DBC-B74B-04CF00D6B5E0@cableone.net>
References: <68A6A28A-0ED5-4DBC-B74B-04CF00D6B5E0@cableone.net>
Message-ID: <1239363904.20051012114102@ahsoftware.net>

Chris-

Wednesday, October 12, 2005, 10:07:26 AM, you wrote:

> This is probably a little bit off topic, but I'm wanting to find out
> if any of you are using any type of automated testing tools with  
> Revolution.  I'm thinking something like scripts or whatever that  
> will perform tasks that your end-users would perform.  Does anything
> like that exist that can be used Revolution-built apps?

Well, the big dogs in the Windows world won't work here. I tried both
WinRunner and SilkTest and they both have the same results: since
runrev doesn't use "standard" OS controls, all you can see is a single
window with essentially a bitmap. You can send mouseclicks to a given
location, but can't see any results. I haven't tried Eggplant on the
OSX end of things, but I expect the same. I've been working on a QA
automation tool for stacks, but it's a background task and requires
quite a bit of stack introspection. I *do* have a jUnit-style unit
testing framework together and expect to get that out the door Real
Soon Now.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Oct 12 14:39:43 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:39:43 -0700
Subject: automated testing tools (slightly OT)
In-Reply-To: <1239363904.20051012114102@ahsoftware.net>
References: <68A6A28A-0ED5-4DBC-B74B-04CF00D6B5E0@cableone.net>
	<1239363904.20051012114102@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <434D586F.5020702@fourthworld.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:
> Chris-
> 
> Wednesday, October 12, 2005, 10:07:26 AM, you wrote:
> 
> 
>>This is probably a little bit off topic, but I'm wanting to find out
>>if any of you are using any type of automated testing tools with  
>>Revolution.  I'm thinking something like scripts or whatever that  
>>will perform tasks that your end-users would perform.  Does anything
>>like that exist that can be used Revolution-built apps?
> 
> 
> Well, the big dogs in the Windows world won't work here. I tried both
> WinRunner and SilkTest and they both have the same results: since
> runrev doesn't use "standard" OS controls, all you can see is a single
> window with essentially a bitmap. You can send mouseclicks to a given
> location, but can't see any results.

Do you know offhand how this affects screen readers, such as those use 
for the blind?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Oct 12 14:44:39 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:44:39 -0700
Subject: automated testing tools (slightly OT)
In-Reply-To: <68A6A28A-0ED5-4DBC-B74B-04CF00D6B5E0@cableone.net>
References: <68A6A28A-0ED5-4DBC-B74B-04CF00D6B5E0@cableone.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20051012104816.01eb29d8@pop3.pon.net>

Hi Chris,

>I'm wanting to find out
>if any of you are using any type of automated testing tools with
>Revolution.

When testing SDB for logic errors, memory leaks, and multi-user 
performance, I wrote a stack that automated testing by sending database 
commands in random order and maintaining a log of the type & results of the 
last 40 iterations.

The testing stack (or standalone) was run 24 hours+ in single user mode, 
then 24 hours+ in client/server - single client mode, and finally for 72 
hours in client/server - multi-client mode.  This automated testing 
disclosed a bug in one command that would   create a machine state that 
would cause a different command to fail the next time it was 
called--regardless of how many other commands were called in the 
meantime.  This might have taken forever to find in manual testing and 
real-world use.

And at the same time it was testing the server-side logic as well.

I'd be interested in what Jacque Gay might have to say on the subject.  I 
recall a very interesting conversation we had at a Macworld regarding the 
work she did for Apple to automate HyperCard testing.

Rob Cozens, CCW
Serendipity Software Company

Vive R Revolution! 



From jhurley at infostations.com  Wed Oct 12 14:56:30 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:56:30 -0700
Subject: : Playing audio clips
In-Reply-To: <20051012163241.DEA8D825271@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051012163241.DEA8D825271@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p0623092cbf73085e5f62@[69.85.158.21]>

>
>Message: 9
>Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:18:25 +0200
>From: Eric Chatonet <eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com>
>Subject: Re: : Playing audio clips
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Message-ID: <682BC880-2F90-4FDA-875A-7F7E46F1A7E8 at sosmartsoftware.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>Hi Jim,
>
>You might be interested in "How to Monitor a QuickTime Player by 
>Script", a tutorial available through "Tutorials Picker".
>On my website or Rev Online (user: So Smart Software)
>
>>  This stack shows you how to monitor a QT player to play music (mp3 
>>  included) and provide all the usual commands, and more, to the user.
>>  How to know if the right version of QT is installed, manage 
>>  durations, progress, quick searches, sound level, loops, play-
>>  lists, etc.
>>  The main commands are embedded in a scripted group, which you can 
>>  export into any project. This scripted group is able to monitor, 
>>  not only sound files, but also the video files as well.
>>  Print function included.
>
>Best Regards from Paris,
>
>Eric Chatonet.
>
>Le 12 oct. 05 ? 02:02, Jim Hurley a ?crit :
>
>>  New problem:  I have a scrollbar which I would like to use to  show 
>>  the progress of the player. I have tried the following:
>>
>>  on update
>>    set the thumbposition of scrollbar "duration" to the currenttime 
>>  of player myPlayer
>>    send "update" to me in 1 sec
>>  end update
>>
>>  But the "Send" command momentarily interrupts the player and the 
>>  speech is bumpy. Is there an asynchronous way to iterate the update
>  > without  using a "send" command?
>

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the heads up. Loved your stack.

I was puzzled that you weren't getting the static 
that I get when the thumbposition of the 
scrollbar is set with the update.

Turns out that my scrollbar has a scrollbarDrag 
handler which sets the currentTime of the player. 
(I want to be able to drag the thumb to any point 
along the bar. This allows me to choose the 
starting point with the slider.)

What I needed was a way to avoid the execution of 
the scrollbar handler when the thumbposition was 
moved by an external handler, but to allow the 
script when the thumb was dragged. That can be 
done with the same device one uses in a mouseMove 
handler. I added a mouseDown handler in the 
scrollbar which puts  a value into the variable 
myName and then exiting the scrollBarDrag handler 
if myName is empty.

Thanks again,

Jim


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 12 15:12:06 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:12:06 -0500
Subject: Scale to fit
In-Reply-To: <BF7034AF.384FC%todd@geistinteractive.com>
References: <BF7034AF.384FC%todd@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <434D6006.40604@hyperactivesw.com>

Todd Geist wrote:
> Hello
> 
> I have an image on a card and would like to scale it to fit in a button
> dynamically.
> 
> In other words as the button gets bigger the icon should until it reaches
> its actual size.
> 
> I can handle the button getting bigger, but I have no idea how to accomplish
> making the icon scale.
> 
> Anybody have any examples?

If you scale the image, the button that uses it for an icon will also 
rescale its icon to the same size automatically. You may have to force 
the card or button to redraw to effect the change if the button is on 
the current card. You can do this by issuing the command "go this card".


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 12 15:12:02 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:12:02 -0700
Subject: Background Group Question
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bf7281fece37@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <BF72AE12.2EF32%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

The key point may be scope issues.

-1- Where is the script located?  in one of the groups, the card, the stack
-2- You could use stack custom properties to do this and be available to all
cards and groups
-3- You could use a global variable and be available to all stacks and cards

> How can I add the entries for background object on cards other than
> the 1st card?
I believe backgrounds are part of the stack (not a card) so you should not
have to go to a card that holds that background, and thus use the following
line:
put the number of controls => all (bg1+bg2+bg3+bg4)

put the number of controls in bg 1 = only those (bg1)
put the number of controls in card 2 = only those (bg1 + bg2)
put the number of controls in card 3 = only those (bg1 + bg3)
**however, bg1 is the same set of controls as card 2, depending on how you
have your objects setup [same name, id, geometry, etc]

Catch may be that the same bg on different cards is simply the same
controls, like a shared text field.  In fact, it may be easier and more
effective to use a shared field in a fifth bg that appears on all cards.

I am not sure what you are trying to set/get.  Is this data that is stored
for each control on each card?  Since the long name of the control is the
same even if the bg does not appear on any card, why are you looping through
the number of cards?

Hope this helps

Jim Ault
Las Vegas
[I take no credit or culpability for errors, but must share in any profits
derived from my answers and advice]

On 10/12/05 2:16 AM, "David Burgun" <dburgun at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have a stack with two cards. There are 4 Common Background Groups
> and one Group that is unique in each card. At startup I build a
> look-up table (array) which uses the long name of each control as a
> key. Once the stack is running the code looks up values for certain
> fields and menu's using the long name of the current control to
> access the table/array.
> 
> I use the following to build the table at startup:
> 
> repeat with myCardIndex = 1 to the number of cards in stack myStackLongName
>    repeat with myControl index = 1 to the number of controls in card
> myCardIndex of stack  myStackLongName
>    put the long name of control myControlIndex into myControlLongName
>    put GetControlData(myControlLongName) into myControlData
>    put myControlData into myControlArray[myControlLongName]
>    end repeat
> end repeat
> 
> The problem with this is that for background I only get one entry
> returned (the entry of the 1st card in the stack), so that the
> following doesn't work when run from a card other than the 1st card:
> 
> put LookUpControl(the long name of me) into myControlData
> 
> How can I add the entries for background object on cards other than
> the 1st card?
> 
> Thanks a lot
> All the Best
> Dave
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From katir at hindu.org  Wed Oct 12 05:55:27 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:55:27 -1000
Subject: Export Forced Line Break (soft returns) to XML
In-Reply-To: <p06210206bf714b22f5ac@[66.93.39.98]>
References: <8E94C748-AD5D-40F7-B5C4-2EE7205936E3@hindu.org>
	<p06210206bf714b22f5ac@[66.93.39.98]>
Message-ID: <69F14742-C274-46FC-9419-674C261058E9@hindu.org>

Thanks Jeanne.. you got it... replacing "cr" with "numToChar(13)"   
works... duh.. I thought CR char(13) on the mac... of course it does  
if you save with "file:" and not "binfile:"

So in BBedit I clearly now have char(10) at the end of lines in  
versions and char(13) at the end of every verse...

:-/) unfortunately InDesign doesn't get it... XML import brings in  
*all* line breaks as hard paragraph returns...

but... that's not Rev's problem...

tks
skts

On Oct 11, 2005, at 1:01 AM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

> Sivakatirswami, I'm not sure what the problem is... this is what  
> you'd expect. Your script exports a file with no return characters,  
> so naturally  BBedit sees only one line... there *is* only one line.
>
> I'm not sure but I think the problem may be that you misunderstand  
> the "CR" constant. It's a numToChar(10), not numToChar(13). I think  
> you want to be substituting "numToChar(13)" for cr:
>
>   put   "</" & x &"_verses>"  & numToChar(13)  &  "<" & x  
> &"_verses>" after tOutput
>
> if I'm correctly understanding what's going on in your script.



From jhurley at infostations.com  Wed Oct 12 15:22:04 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:22:04 -0700
Subject: Question on message handling
In-Reply-To: <20051012170004.4191D8252BB@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051012170004.4191D8252BB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p0623092dbf730ceb705a@[69.85.158.21]>

I guess I can't get away with claiming that this is a beginners 
question. Been at it too long for that. But I  haven't worked much 
with fields and so this is an elementary question on that subject.

I have a field in which  the lockText is false so I can type into the  field.

I have a card handler to respond to keyDown messages--the default in 
the select script is pass keyDown.

What  puzzles me is that the card apparently gets the keyDown message 
before the field does. That is exactly what I am looking for, but I 
don't quite  see why. If I'm typing in a field, why doesn't the 
field get the message before the card? Is that the priority that is 
set when the text is not locked, i.e. card first, field last?

Jim


From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Oct 12 15:52:22 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:52:22 -0500
Subject: importing an image from a window that is offscreen
In-Reply-To: <BF72A261.229F2%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF72A261.229F2%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <434D6976.8060107@chipp.com>

I believe import snapshot offscreen doesn't work on PC's, only on Macs. 
Just tested it again with 2.6.1. You need to use Wouter or Ken Ray's 
solution:
<http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/metacard/tips/imag007.htm>
for the PC (At least that's how I do it).

best,

Chipp



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 12 15:54:42 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:54:42 -0500
Subject: automated testing tools (slightly OT)
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.1.20051012104816.01eb29d8@pop3.pon.net>
References: <68A6A28A-0ED5-4DBC-B74B-04CF00D6B5E0@cableone.net>
	<6.2.1.2.1.20051012104816.01eb29d8@pop3.pon.net>
Message-ID: <434D6A02.9040106@hyperactivesw.com>

Rob Cozens wrote:

> I'd be interested in what Jacque Gay might have to say on the subject.  
> I recall a very interesting conversation we had at a Macworld regarding 
> the work she did for Apple to automate HyperCard testing.

It was a long time ago so I've forgotten a lot of the details, but this 
testing engine was the reason that HyperCard consistently shipped with 
virtually no significant bugs. The HC team would start the test engine 
running and leave it until it crashed, at which point they'd fix the 
problem and start it up again. When the engine ran all the way to 
completion, they figured HC was okay to ship. And it almost always was. 
Any bugs that surfaced later on were always small things that were well 
outside the range of normal operations.

There were two test engines. The main one automated the testing of every 
language token, and ran unsupervised. The second one was a manual test 
engine that required a human to execute specified tasks. The manual test 
stack was much smaller and tested things like manually resizing 
graphics, choosing tools from the palette, using keyboard shortcuts, and 
other behaviors that couldn't be simulated via scripts.

I didn't write the original test engine, which someone on the HC team 
wrote way back at version 1.0. As the HC language grew, more tests were 
added for new syntax and behaviors. By the time I became involved with 
the test engine it was massive and had been worked on over the years by 
many people.

Exactly how it worked is both proprietary (and protected by NDA) and 
vague in my memory now, but the basic idea was this. The stack script 
contained a handler that used a "do" statement to execute the parameters 
that were sent to it. Each card used this handler to execute various 
tests. The handler then returned a result that the calling handler could 
check and log to an external text file. Each card in the stack tested 
one token (command, function, etc) of the language. Each card had a 
separate handler for each variation of the token. For example, a card to 
test the "go" command would have handlers for going to a different stack 
and back, going to a stack in a new window, going to a stack with screen 
locked, and so forth.

Each card had an "opencard" handler with a repeat loop that ran through 
all the permutations on that card. A main handler in the stack script 
also had a repeat loop that went to each card in sequence (which 
triggered each opencard handler.) As each test was performed, "the 
result" was checked and logged to the text file. At the completion of 
the opencard handler, control was returned to the stack script which 
then moved on to the next test card.

The scripts were complex and more elaborate than I've described. Each 
card test had to follow a particular format and contain handlers with 
predefined names. There were as many provisions as possible to bypass 
errors without bringing the testing to a halt; errors were logged, the 
specific handler was exited, and the next handler in the sequence began. 
The logging routines listed the name of the test, the card it came from, 
and the final result so that a human could read through it and check for 
unanticipated results. If the engine crashed, the last entry in the log 
showed what was executing at the time so it could be tracked and fixed.

The first card of the stack had a "Start" button that was clicked to 
begin the test sequence. From there, it ran on its own. If not stopped, 
it would begin over at the first card and retest everything all over 
again, running until a certain keyboard sequence stopped it. I heard 
they sometimes ran it for weeks at a time to test memory usage.

Funny this should come up, as I was recently talking to the person I 
shared the work with, and we wondered whether Apple would object to us 
converting the test engine to Revolution for the RR team. We don't know 
the status of our Apple NDA at this point, since HC is long gone. 
Conversion, however, would be a massive job; not only does Rev has three 
or four times as many features as HC, but many of the existing handlers 
would have to be rewritten to accomodate differences in how the engines 
work. It would be a project that could easily take a couple of years to 
finish. Just writing new tests for HC 2.3/2.4 took three of us some 
months, and we didn't have to change any of the existing card tests, we 
only had to add new ones. So, the project is probably outside the realm 
of possibility at this point.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Oct 12 15:27:40 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:27:40 +0200
Subject: : Playing audio clips
In-Reply-To: <p0623092cbf73085e5f62@[69.85.158.21]>
References: <20051012163241.DEA8D825271@mail.runrev.com>
	<p0623092cbf73085e5f62@[69.85.158.21]>
Message-ID: <1AC2BB56-1C6D-4CC4-B65D-C3AA21E0850B@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Jim,

I find your contributions amazing :-)
Glad to help you.

> Hi Eric,
>
> Thanks for the heads up. Loved your stack.
>
> I was puzzled that you weren't getting the static that I get when  
> the thumbposition of the scrollbar is set with the update.
>
> Turns out that my scrollbar has a scrollbarDrag handler which sets  
> the currentTime of the player. (I want to be able to drag the thumb  
> to any point along the bar. This allows me to choose the starting  
> point with the slider.)

In the tutorial, I used a progress bar (not a scroll bar) but you can  
click anywhere on it to get a new starting point.

> What I needed was a way to avoid the execution of the scrollbar  
> handler when the thumbposition was moved by an external handler,  
> but to allow the script when the thumb was dragged. That can be  
> done with the same device one uses in a mouseMove handler. I added  
> a mouseDown handler in the scrollbar which puts  a value into the  
> variable myName and then exiting the scrollBarDrag handler if  
> myName is empty.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Jim

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Wed Oct 12 16:08:38 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:08:38 -0700
Subject: Image woes...
In-Reply-To: <07E03BEE-9897-4D9A-A360-F19298D49A32@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <BF72BB56.38869%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Still having problems

On 10/12/05 4:59 AM, "Klaus Major" <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:
> Hmm, that does work actually, i use this almost everyday.
> 
> Did you check the image on disk with an image viewer?
> Maybe it got corrupted somehow...

Here is what I am doing. Mac OSX 10.4.1 Rev 2.6.1

I use button with the following handler to grab an image of the clipboard
and place it in a file on my desktop.

ON mouseUp
    
    put the clipboardData["image"] into img "image"
    put specialFolderPath("desktop") & "/test.png" into tPath
    put "binfile:" & tPath into tURL
    put img "image" into URL tURL
END MouseUP

-->  test.png is created on on the desktop and looks good when opened with
"Preview".  And img "image" shows the image contents.

I have a second button with this handler to copy the image back off the disk
into  a second image control.

ON mouseUp
    put specialFolderPath("desktop") & "/test.png" into tPath
    put URL tURL into img "image2"
    put the result
END MouseUP

-->  FAILS.  The second image control img "image2" is still empty.

Any clues?

Thanks very much


Todd
-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Oct 12 16:19:08 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:19:08 -0700
Subject: automated testing tools (slightly OT)
In-Reply-To: <434D4772.6030803@fourthworld.com>
References: <68A6A28A-0ED5-4DBC-B74B-04CF00D6B5E0@cableone.net>
	<434D4772.6030803@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <16915250649.20051012131908@ahsoftware.net>

Richard-

Wednesday, October 12, 2005, 10:27:14 AM, you wrote:

> <http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=2569>

Thanks for pointing out 2569. I just sent it my last remaining votes.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 12 16:19:59 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:19:59 -0500
Subject: Question on message handling
In-Reply-To: <p0623092dbf730ceb705a@[69.85.158.21]>
References: <20051012170004.4191D8252BB@mail.runrev.com>
	<p0623092dbf730ceb705a@[69.85.158.21]>
Message-ID: <434D6FEF.1020208@hyperactivesw.com>

Jim Hurley wrote:

> What  puzzles me is that the card apparently gets the keyDown message 
> before the field does. That is exactly what I am looking for, but I 
> don't quite  see why.

I'm not seeing that. I see the field getting the message first, even if 
the field is in a background group.

I made a new stack with a single field. The field has this script:

on keydown which
   get msg
   put " FIELD" after it
   put it
   pass keydown
end keydown

And the card has this script:

on keydown which
   get msg
   put " CARD" after it
   put it
   pass keydown
end keydown


The message box shows " FIELD CARD". I also tried grouping the field and 
setting backgroundbehavior to true with the same results.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Oct 12 16:24:27 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:24:27 -0700
Subject: automated testing tools (slightly OT)
In-Reply-To: <434D586F.5020702@fourthworld.com>
References: <68A6A28A-0ED5-4DBC-B74B-04CF00D6B5E0@cableone.net>
	<1239363904.20051012114102@ahsoftware.net>
	<434D586F.5020702@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <4915569427.20051012132427@ahsoftware.net>

Richard-

Wednesday, October 12, 2005, 11:39:43 AM, you wrote:

> Do you know offhand how this affects screen readers, such as those use
> for the blind?

I don't, but the subject came up on another listserv a while back. I'm
pretty sure the results would be the same. At least with the standard
QA automation tools you can verify results by taking a snapshot of a
textbox and then comparing the bitmap to a previous bitmap. It's ugly
and error-prone, but it's sometimes the only workaround. Screen
readers wouldn't have this option since they need to grab actual text.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Oct 12 16:22:11 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 22:22:11 +0200
Subject: Image woes...
In-Reply-To: <BF72BB56.38869%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
References: <BF72BB56.38869%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <ED6E216E-6E0A-4E51-8DF7-8C6FAC2B279C@major-k.de>

Hi Todd,

> Still having problems
> ...
> ON mouseUp
>     put the clipboardData["image"] into img "image"
>     put specialFolderPath("desktop") & "/test.png" into tPath
>     put "binfile:" & tPath into tURL
>     put img "image" into URL tURL
> END MouseUP
>
> -->  test.png is created on on the desktop and looks good when  
> opened with
> "Preview".  And img "image" shows the image contents.
>
> I have a second button with this handler to copy the image back off  
> the disk
> into  a second image control.
>
> ON mouseUp
>     put specialFolderPath("desktop") & "/test.png" into tPath
>     put URL tURL into img "image2"
>     put the result
> END MouseUP
>
> -->  FAILS.  The second image control img "image2" is still empty.
>
> Any clues?

Yep, took me a couple of minutes before i noticed this ;-)

> ON mouseUp
>     put specialFolderPath("desktop") & "/test.png" into tPath
        put "binfile:" & tPath into tURL  ##the missing link :-)
>     put URL tURL into img "image2"
>     put the result
> END MouseUP

> Thanks very much
>
> Todd

Best from germany

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Wed Oct 12 16:46:45 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:46:45 -0700
Subject: Image woes...
In-Reply-To: <ED6E216E-6E0A-4E51-8DF7-8C6FAC2B279C@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <BF72C445.38882%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>


Thanks Klaus

What you pointed out was mistake in the sample file I created to try and
isolate an issue I was having in a different file.  Once you cleared up the
that issue I was able to isolate the issue, which was a bug later on down
the code.

Oh boy!... That was fun

Todd


On 10/12/05 1:22 PM, "Klaus Major" <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:

> Yep, took me a couple of minutes before i noticed this ;-)
> 
>> ON mouseUp
>>     put specialFolderPath("desktop") & "/test.png" into tPath
>         put "binfile:" & tPath into tURL  ##the missing link :-)
>>     put URL tURL into img "image2"
>>     put the result
>> END MouseUP

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 12 17:01:06 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:01:06 -0500
Subject: sharedVisible enhancement?
In-Reply-To: <p06200704bf72ff0e0e0a@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <p06200704bf72ff0e0e0a@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <434D7992.3010505@hyperactivesw.com>

Timothy Miller wrote:
> If bg field text can be different on each card containing the group, or 
> shared by each instance of the bg field then...
> 
> Why couldn't the visible be handled in a similar way? With the 
> (hypothetical) sharedvisible set to true, every instance of that bg 
> field would be either visible or invisible. With the sharedvisible set 
> to false, I could hide an instance of the bg field on one card, but the 
> same field would still be visible on other cards.

I suspect the need for this feature would be minimal, since in most 
cases fields are only shared when they are intended to be displayed 
universally. It would also open up the question of whether *all* field 
properties need to have variable states. That is, if the visibility 
could be variable, why not the showborder? Or the style? Etc.

It is easy to set these things in a preopencard handler, so I suspect it 
isn't worth addressing the can of worms it would open. What I'd do is 
set a custom property on each card:

   set the cShowField of this card to false/true

And in a preOpenCard handler:

   set the visible of fld "blah" to the cShowField of this card

Using a custom property removes the need to create a container to store 
the value.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 17:39:35 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:39:35 +1000
Subject: num of bgs versus num of grps
In-Reply-To: <DBAE8F4B-A514-4EAC-A694-5C5428D7D58C@scarlet.be>
References: <DBAE8F4B-A514-4EAC-A694-5C5428D7D58C@scarlet.be>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510121439p6de7230dg8b04368bbc6ba428@mail.gmail.com>

> As there is a lot to do about background groups may be this is the
> right time to ask about a completely undocumented feature (at least I
> cannot find any reference to it (and I know this is not a reference
> either :-))
>
> < put the number of backgrounds > is different from (though the docs
> state group and background as equivalent)   < put the number of groups >
>

Go to the Help menu -> Topics -> Groups & backgrounds. This gives you
the details of when a group is different to a background.

Cheers,
Sarah


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 12 17:13:58 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:13:58 -0700
Subject: Accumulating message box
In-Reply-To: <32a7ea1bb42db518b03aab15d68756a9@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BF72CAA6.2EF47%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Looks like you need to open Application Browser and double-click on the
correct stack in its long list, then modify to suit.

Are smileys/emoticons going to be part of your snazzy user interface? :-)

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 10/12/05 6:52 AM, "Troy Rollins" <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:

> 
> On Oct 12, 2005, at 2:42 AM, Jim Ault wrote:
> 
>> Do you mean the Rev msg box?
> 
> Yes that one.  ;-) And thanks for the thoughts, but I'm talking about
> modifying its stack so that it does clear between "Puts", but
> automatically adds CR and the new message, always and for any stack
> that puts to the msg box.
> 
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Oct 12 17:49:19 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:49:19 -0700
Subject: Manipulate Stacks with Duplicate Names?
Message-ID: <BF72D2EF.22A34%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Is there any way to distinguish between newly created (unsaved) stacks that
have the same name?

Yes, I know it's not "kosher" to be editing stacks at the same time that
have the same name, but if the situation were to arise, is there some way to
reference/work with the stacks independently of each other?

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct 12 18:26:20 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:26:20 -0500
Subject: Question on message handling
In-Reply-To: <p0623092dbf730ceb705a@[69.85.158.21]>
Message-ID: <BF72F7BC.2D8F8%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/12/05 2:22 PM, "Jim Hurley" <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:

> What  puzzles me is that the card apparently gets the keyDown message
> before the field does. That is exactly what I am looking for, but I
> don't quite  see why. If I'm typing in a field, why doesn't the
> field get the message before the card? Is that the priority that is
> set when the text is not locked, i.e. card first, field last?

No... in fact I created a simple test stack with a field with this script:

on keyDown
  put "Field" after msg
  pass keydown
end keyDown

and a card script that said:

on keyDown
  put "Card" after msg
  pass keydown
end keyDown

And when I clicked in the field, the message box read:

  FieldCard

So the field is definitely getting the message first (which is what I would
expect).

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From davis.phil at comcast.net  Wed Oct 12 19:27:35 2005
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:27:35 -0700
Subject: num of bgs versus num of grps
In-Reply-To: <DBAE8F4B-A514-4EAC-A694-5C5428D7D58C@scarlet.be>
References: <DBAE8F4B-A514-4EAC-A694-5C5428D7D58C@scarlet.be>
Message-ID: <434D9BE7.1000203@comcast.net>

This reply is incomplete and may not solve anything, but here's my basic 
starting point for keeping it straight mentally:


A basic difference between calling one of those collection objects a 
'group' or a 'background' is SCOPE OF REFERENCE.

- When I talk about a 'background', I'm speaking in stack-level terms.

- When I talk about a 'group', I'm speaking in card-level terms.

This 'scope of reference' thing is [sort of] reflected in the counts 
you're getting.

That's where I start in my thinking about them. From there I start 
applying qualifications until distinctions become really muddy.

Phil Davis



Wouter wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> As there is a lot to do about background groups may be this is the  
> right time to ask about a completely undocumented feature (at least I  
> cannot find any reference to it (and I know this is not a reference  
> either :-))
> 
> < put the number of backgrounds > is different from (though the docs  
> state group and background as equivalent)   < put the number of groups >
> 
> "put the number of groups" : will report the total number of groups  on 
> the current card (and not in the complete stack if it is a  multicard 
> stack)
> 
> "put the number of backgrounds" : will  report the number of groups  to 
> be found at cardlevel of a complete stack (one or multicard stack).
> 
> in a 1 card stack:
>   -  If there are several groups  it will report the number of  groups, 
> whether the backgroundbehavior is set or not
>   -  if there is a group in a group in a .......   it will be  counted 
> as 1 group
> in a multicard stack:
>   -  it will report the total number of groups at cardlevel in that  stack
>         3 groups on each of 2 cards without backgroundbehavior set  to 
> true will be reported as 6 groups
>   -  if the backgroundproperty of a group is set to true it will be  
> counted only once
>          3 groups on each of 2 cards with  backgroundbehavior of 1  
> group set to true will be reported as 5 groups
> 
> Can anyone confirm this?
> TIA
> Greetings,
> Wouter
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Wed Oct 12 21:14:28 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:14:28 -0700
Subject: Manipulate Stacks with Duplicate Names?
In-Reply-To: <BF72D2EF.22A34%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF72D2EF.22A34%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <p06210214bf7365263bb1@[66.93.39.98]>

At 2:49 PM -0700 10/12/2005, Scott Rossi wrote:
>Is there any way to distinguish between newly created (unsaved) stacks that
have the same name?

How about using the stack's ID?
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From katir at hindu.org  Wed Oct 12 23:59:46 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:59:46 -1000
Subject: 2.6.1 release notes?
Message-ID: <7956FFD5-90CE-4764-B113-48F7C9FF67D0@hindu.org>

Anyone know where to find this:

"VERSION 2.6.1

Version 2.6.1 is a bug fix and maintenance release.  For more  
details, please
see the IDEChangeLog.txt and EngineChangeLog.txt files in the  
distribution
folder."

those two files are not part of the download...

Sivakatirswami

Also, where are the docs -- examples on Deep Mask? ala

" Deep masks: create animated translucent windows and effects in all  
versions
of Mac OS X and Windows"

?? Entering "deep mask" in the documentation results in nothing...





From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Oct 13 00:25:13 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 00:25:13 -0400
Subject: 2.6.1 release notes?
In-Reply-To: <7956FFD5-90CE-4764-B113-48F7C9FF67D0@hindu.org>
References: <7956FFD5-90CE-4764-B113-48F7C9FF67D0@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <7d202c6b385f3996fd601cbec38f592e@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 12, 2005, at 11:59 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Version 2.6.1 is a bug fix and maintenance release.  For more details, 
> please
> see the IDEChangeLog.txt and EngineChangeLog.txt files in the 
> distribution
> folder."

In the Root of the new Rev folder (the same place you found 
"Whats_new.txt") is "Change_Log_2.6.1.txt"

>
> those two files are not part of the download...
>
> Sivakatirswami
>
> Also, where are the docs -- examples on Deep Mask? ala
>
> " Deep masks: create animated translucent windows and effects in all 
> versions
> of Mac OS X and Windows"
>
> ?? Entering "deep mask" in the documentation results in nothing...

Also in the root of the install folder is "DeepMaskSampler.rev"

(At least in the OSX version, which is what I believe you use.)

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From rstace at uow.edu.au  Thu Oct 13 00:28:04 2005
From: rstace at uow.edu.au (Ray Stace)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:28:04 +1000
Subject: 2.6.1 release notes?
In-Reply-To: <7956FFD5-90CE-4764-B113-48F7C9FF67D0@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <BF741F74.1C298%rstace@uow.edu.au>

Sivakatirswami 

Both were in my copy of the download

Change_Log_2.6.1.txt was the first item in the bundle - "This file is
divided into two sections - Revolution Engine 2.6.1 and Revolution IDE
2.6.1.  This list was updated 4th October 2005."

DeepMaskSampler.rev was the fourth (alpha order)

Ray

On 13/10/05 1:59 PM, "Sivakatirswami" <katir at hindu.org> wrote:

> Anyone know where to find this:
> 
> "VERSION 2.6.1
> 
> Version 2.6.1 is a bug fix and maintenance release.  For more
> details, please
> see the IDEChangeLog.txt and EngineChangeLog.txt files in the
> distribution
> folder."
> 
> those two files are not part of the download...
> 
> Sivakatirswami
> 
> Also, where are the docs -- examples on Deep Mask? ala
> 
> " Deep masks: create animated translucent windows and effects in all
> versions
> of Mac OS X and Windows"
> 
> ?? Entering "deep mask" in the documentation results in nothing...
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 



From jsng at wayoflife.org  Thu Oct 13 00:40:22 2005
From: jsng at wayoflife.org (Jesse Sng)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:40:22 +0800
Subject: Browser Fields
In-Reply-To: <BF741F74.1C298%rstace@uow.edu.au>
References: <BF741F74.1C298%rstace@uow.edu.au>
Message-ID: <p06210201bf7394de9d3a@[192.168.1.109]>

Hi,

Has anyone attempted to implement the kind of browser set of fields 
that you see in iTunes and in the OS X Finder? I need to design 
something like that for a particular application that will allow the 
user to browser a hierarchical set of data that is partitioned into 
categories and subcategories.

Currently, that's set up as a series of hierarchical folders and 
subfolders on the file server and I want to provide an easy way for 
them to browse and then use the data files.


Jesse Sng


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Oct 13 00:47:15 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:47:15 -0700
Subject: automated testing tools (slightly OT)
In-Reply-To: <434D6A02.9040106@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <68A6A28A-0ED5-4DBC-B74B-04CF00D6B5E0@cableone.net>
	<6.2.1.2.1.20051012104816.01eb29d8@pop3.pon.net>
	<434D6A02.9040106@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <19045737186.20051012214715@ahsoftware.net>

Jacque-

Thanks. And I'm breathing a sigh of relief, too... I was sure you were
gonna say you did this with VU back in the day.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Oct 13 01:13:53 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:13:53 +0200
Subject: Manipulate Stacks with Duplicate Names?
In-Reply-To: <p06210214bf7365263bb1@[66.93.39.98]>
Message-ID: <20051013044417.6FCAA825141@mail.runrev.com>

I forgot about the id but there is also the filename property which doesn't
exist in unsaved stacks...

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Jeanne A. E. DeVoto
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 3:14 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Manipulate Stacks with Duplicate Names?
> 
> At 2:49 PM -0700 10/12/2005, Scott Rossi wrote:
> >Is there any way to distinguish between newly created 
> (unsaved) stacks 
> >that
> have the same name?
> 
> How about using the stack's ID?
> --
> jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com 
> http://www.jaedworks.com 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dick.kriesel at mail.com  Thu Oct 13 02:20:13 2005
From: dick.kriesel at mail.com (Dick Kriesel)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:20:13 -0700
Subject: anomaly in dictionary entry explained in use-rev long ago; bug in
 uploading web notes?
In-Reply-To: <BF720372.13536%dick.kriesel@mail.com>
Message-ID: <BF734AAD.135AC%dick.kriesel@mail.com>

On 10/12/05 12:04 AM, "Dick Kriesel" <dick.kriesel at mail.com> wrote:

> The entry for property "the backgroundNames" states:
> 
> The backgroundNames is the list of all backgrounds in the stack whose
> backgroundBehavior property is set to true, whether they appear on the
> current card or not.
> 
> While trying to see where removed groups go, I tried this:
> 1. create a new stack
> 2. create a group
> 3. check the group's properties to make sure its backgroundBehavior is off
> 4. remove the group from the card
> 5. check the backgroundNames of the stack to see that the group is there,
>    contrary to what the dictionary says

On Tue May 20 15:50:02 EDT 2003 miscdas at boxfrog.com wrote:

> Here is an important point: if you remove a group, it is placed into the
> stack background WITH THE BACKGROUND BEHAVIOR SET TO TRUE, even if it was
> NOT set before it was removed.  You can use the backgoundIds function to
> verify this behavior for yourself.

That seems like a worthy comment to add to the dictionary entries for the
backgroundNames property and the remove command.  Unfortunately, the "Upload
web note" button appears not to work, even though a dialog box reports
"Upload complete."  At least, I can't see the note I uploaded for the
backgroundNames property.  Can anyone else see newly uploaded web notes?

-- Dick




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Oct 13 02:23:39 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:23:39 -0700
Subject: Manipulate Stacks with Duplicate Names?
In-Reply-To: <20051013044417.6FCAA825141@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BF734B7B.22A85%scott@tactilemedia.com>

>> Is there any way to distinguish between newly created
>> (unsaved) stacks that have the same name?

> How about using the stack's ID?

I seem to recall reading on the list long ago that it was somehow possible
for multiple opened stacks to have duplicate IDs, and (because of this)
referencing stacks by ID wasn't reliable.  Is this actually the case or have
I spent years mistakenly avoiding referencing stacks by ID?

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Thu Oct 13 02:31:27 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:31:27 +0200
Subject: Manipulate Stacks with Duplicate Names?
In-Reply-To: <BF734B7B.22A85%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <OF3BF2BAAB.24DA69DE-ONC1257099.0023B708-C1257099.0023950E@deutsche-boerse.com>

not mistakenly because Tuv once told me you just CANT rely on stack ids. 
Actually they change across
sessions (not very smart IMOHO) so i too just avoid them...

The stack path is probably the best reference after the stack's name...

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 13/10/2005 08:23:39:

> >> Is there any way to distinguish between newly created
> >> (unsaved) stacks that have the same name?
> 
> > How about using the stack's ID?
> 
> I seem to recall reading on the list long ago that it was somehow 
possible
> for multiple opened stacks to have duplicate IDs, and (because of this)
> referencing stacks by ID wasn't reliable.  Is this actually the case or 
have
> I spent years mistakenly avoiding referencing stacks by ID?
> 
> Thanks & Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



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From preid at reidit.co.uk  Thu Oct 13 05:33:14 2005
From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:33:14 +0100
Subject: Handling HTML Form POST in Rev?
Message-ID: <p06230903bf73d971621f@[192.168.183.2]>

Can anyone provide some guidance on how I'd go about handling a POST 
from and HTML form?  I'm trying to produce a simple form handling 
application in Rev using AltBrowser to provide the display of the 
form.  However, I've no idea how I can get Rev to receive the POSTed 
form.  I want this to run as a standalone app without the need for a 
local web server.  So my user would fill in a form on screen which 
has been designed using standard HTML, click on the "Send" button and 
my Rev app would receive the content of the form.

Any ideas, guidance etc. please?
-- 
Peter Reid
Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk


From europe at ehug.info  Thu Oct 13 06:13:36 2005
From: europe at ehug.info (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:13:36 +0200
Subject: Use of the encryption features in 2.6
In-Reply-To: <d779b2a13bc5fc44a2e550149b52f74f@mac.com>
References: <d779b2a13bc5fc44a2e550149b52f74f@mac.com>
Message-ID: <434E3350.4030206@ehug.info>

Hi Bill,

An easy way to encrypt the contents of a field:

on mouseUp
   encrypt fld 1 using blowfish with password "12345678"
   put the result into rslt
   if rslt is empty then
     put it into fld 2
   else
     put rslt into fld 2
   end if
end mouseUp

and decrypt it using

on mouseUp
   decrypt fld 2 using blowfish with password "12345678"
   put the result into rslt
   if rslt is empty then
     put it into fld 2
   else
     put rslt into fld 2
   end if
end mouseUp

To use these scripts, just make one stack with two fields and
two buttons. The two buttons should contain these scripts.

When you encrypt a container, you will always find the resulting
value in the it variable. Normally, you would replace the
contents of the original container with the contents of the it
variable.

Best,

Mark


Bill Vlahos wrote:
> Has anyone published a description of how to use the encryption features 
> of 2.6?
> 
> I have a program that stores data in custom properties on several cards 
> (major catagories) which I want to encrypt. It would be nice to click a 
> check box to automatically encrypt the entire stack but I don't think it 
> works that way.
> 
> I'm assuming that I need to encrypt the data before putting it into the 
> custom property and decrypt it when bringing it out. This doesn't sound 
> that hard but very tedious. The nature of this program requires that it 
> will be doing this all the time that it is running so it can always be 
> in a "saved" state on the drive.
> 
> The docs are pretty clear on what the parameters are but not on how I 
> would actually implement this in a real program.
> 
> Is there a tutorial somewhere that I missed?
> 
> Thanks,
> Bill Vlahos

-- 

eHUG coordinator
mailto:europe at ehug.info
http://www.ehug.info
http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch
http://www.economy-x-talk.com



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Thu Oct 13 06:31:37 2005
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:31:37 +0200
Subject: FileType
Message-ID: <0FAAB233-66C2-402B-9FE3-499FD494D959@skynet.be>

Hi list


With mac OSX 10.4.2, the screen capture has changed of fileformat
Before, in the previous mac OS X(Panther) it was a .pdf file
Now it's a .png file


Can you tell me what's the typefile of the image file created with a  
screen capture ?

Thank you


Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Thu Oct 13 08:13:55 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:13:55 -0400
Subject: Browser Fields
In-Reply-To: <p06210201bf7394de9d3a@[192.168.1.109]>
References: <BF741F74.1C298%rstace@uow.edu.au>
	<p06210201bf7394de9d3a@[192.168.1.109]>
Message-ID: <C842D256-C164-4832-B330-1DF1BB08089C@conncoll.edu>


On Oct 13, 2005, at 12:40 AM, Jesse Sng wrote:

> Has anyone attempted to implement the kind of browser set of fields  
> that you see in iTunes and in the OS X Finder? I need to design  
> something like that for a particular application that will allow  
> the user to browser a hierarchical set of data that is partitioned  
> into categories and subcategories.
>
> Currently, that's set up as a series of hierarchical folders and  
> subfolders on the file server and I want to provide an easy way for  
> them to browse and then use the data files.

I'm interested too. And along with that, I'd be interested if anybody  
had code they wanted to share for incremental searches. I can't quite  
figure out how that's done (efficiently).

Charles Hartman



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Oct 13 09:07:49 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:07:49 +0100
Subject: Field Problems
In-Reply-To: <0FAAB233-66C2-402B-9FE3-499FD494D959@skynet.be>
References: <0FAAB233-66C2-402B-9FE3-499FD494D959@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <a05210600bf740bf9c833@[192.168.0.100]>

Hi All,

I am experiencing a problem using a Field List. I have a handler that 
updates the field, and in it I have the following lines:

enable me
disable me
select line myLine of me

All of which, when stepped over with the debugger cause the Handler 
to quit, actually the whole message thread in killed.

Does anyone have any idea of what could be causing this problem?

Thanks a lot
Dave


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Thu Oct 13 09:13:28 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:13:28 +0200
Subject: Field Problems
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bf740bf9c833@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <OF0A4F09A8.A0E2FF39-ONC1257099.00485F26-C1257099.00486344@deutsche-boerse.com>

this could be a selectionchanged handler intercepting it... 

try to run this handler with "lock messages" before you run it...

if it still kills the (it's NOT a thread) execution, it's probably an 
error in myline... If it runs, there's a frontscript (maybe) event handler
catching your change of selection (but im doudtfull)...

BTW, to hilite a line in a "listbehavior" field, i've found it more
reliable to use "set the hilitedline of fld x to myline" than the
good old "select line..."

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 13/10/2005 15:07:49:

> Hi All,
> 
> I am experiencing a problem using a Field List. I have a handler that 
> updates the field, and in it I have the following lines:
> 
> enable me
> disable me
> select line myLine of me
> 
> All of which, when stepped over with the debugger cause the Handler 
> to quit, actually the whole message thread in killed.
> 
> Does anyone have any idea of what could be causing this problem?
> 
> Thanks a lot
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



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The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
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END OF DISCLAIMER


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Oct 13 09:14:26 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:14:26 +0100
Subject: Background Group Question
In-Reply-To: <BF72AE12.2EF32%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
References: <BF72AE12.2EF32%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a05210601bf740d461674@[192.168.0.100]>

Hi

I solved the problem like this:

repeat with myCardIndex = 1 to the number of cards in stack myStackLongName
go to card myCardIndex  of  myStackLongName --******************************
repeat with myControl index = 1 to the number of controls in card 
myCardIndex of stack  myStackLongName
    put the long name of control myControlIndex into myControlLongName
    put GetControlData(myControlLongName) into myControlData
    put myControlData into myControlArray[myControlLongName]
    end repeat
end repeat

go to card 1 of myStackLongName  --******************************


Lines with ***** have been added!

Thanks for your help, the explaination of Background objects was really useful.

All the Best
Dave

>The key point may be scope issues.
>
>-1- Where is the script located?  in one of the groups, the card, the stack
>-2- You could use stack custom properties to do this and be available to all
>cards and groups
>-3- You could use a global variable and be available to all stacks and cards
>
>>  How can I add the entries for background object on cards other than
>>  the 1st card?
>I believe backgrounds are part of the stack (not a card) so you should not
>have to go to a card that holds that background, and thus use the following
>line:
>put the number of controls => all (bg1+bg2+bg3+bg4)
>
>put the number of controls in bg 1 = only those (bg1)
>put the number of controls in card 2 = only those (bg1 + bg2)
>put the number of controls in card 3 = only those (bg1 + bg3)
>**however, bg1 is the same set of controls as card 2, depending on how you
>have your objects setup [same name, id, geometry, etc]
>
>Catch may be that the same bg on different cards is simply the same
>controls, like a shared text field.  In fact, it may be easier and more
>effective to use a shared field in a fifth bg that appears on all cards.
>
>I am not sure what you are trying to set/get.  Is this data that is stored
>for each control on each card?  Since the long name of the control is the
>same even if the bg does not appear on any card, why are you looping through
>the number of cards?
>
>Hope this helps
>
>Jim Ault
>Las Vegas
>[I take no credit or culpability for errors, but must share in any profits
>derived from my answers and advice]
>
>On 10/12/05 2:16 AM, "David Burgun" <dburgun at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>
>>  Hi,
>>
>>  I have a stack with two cards. There are 4 Common Background Groups
>>  and one Group that is unique in each card. At startup I build a
>>  look-up table (array) which uses the long name of each control as a
>>  key. Once the stack is running the code looks up values for certain
>>  fields and menu's using the long name of the current control to
>>  access the table/array.
>>
>>  I use the following to build the table at startup:
>>
>  > repeat with myCardIndex = 1 to the number of cards in stack myStackLongName
>>     repeat with myControl index = 1 to the number of controls in card
>>  myCardIndex of stack  myStackLongName
>>     put the long name of control myControlIndex into myControlLongName
>>     put GetControlData(myControlLongName) into myControlData
>>     put myControlData into myControlArray[myControlLongName]
>>     end repeat
>>  end repeat
>  >
>>  The problem with this is that for background I only get one entry
>>  returned (the entry of the 1st card in the stack), so that the
>>  following doesn't work when run from a card other than the 1st card:
>>
>>  put LookUpControl(the long name of me) into myControlData
>>
>>  How can I add the entries for background object on cards other than
>>  the 1st card?
>>
>>  Thanks a lot
>>  All the Best
>>  Dave
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  use-revolution mailing list
>>  use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
>>  preferences:
>>  http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Oct 13 09:22:07 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:22:07 +0200
Subject: FileType
In-Reply-To: <0FAAB233-66C2-402B-9FE3-499FD494D959@skynet.be>
References: <0FAAB233-66C2-402B-9FE3-499FD494D959@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <348B17A9-D0AF-4EA7-81F8-334194A77955@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Yves,

With Capture (shipped with Mac OS Tiger):
Type: PNGf
Creator: prvw (preview/aper?u)

Le 13 oct. 05 ? 12:31, Yves COPPE a ?crit :

> Hi list
>
>
> With mac OSX 10.4.2, the screen capture has changed of fileformat
> Before, in the previous mac OS X(Panther) it was a .pdf file
> Now it's a .png file
>
>
> Can you tell me what's the typefile of the image file created with  
> a screen capture ?
>
> Thank you
>
>
> Greetings.
>
> Yves COPPE

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Thu Oct 13 09:28:43 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:28:43 +0200
Subject: Browser Fields
In-Reply-To: <C842D256-C164-4832-B330-1DF1BB08089C@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <OF721E8999.E0CA8A53-ONC1257099.00454840-C1257099.0049C89C@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi guys,

im working on such a hierarchical beast... but with not just files 
involved (i have active directory domains, 
subnets, servers, drives, shares, files in use, etc...

i'll try to simplify... After i fix my PC's overheating issues...

As for incremental searches, it's just a look searching the next word and 
adding the findings to the
results list. Isn't it? Let me know if you can't see how it's done...

Please explain in what way it is incremental? search words, searching 
targets?...

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 13/10/2005 14:13:55:

> 
> On Oct 13, 2005, at 12:40 AM, Jesse Sng wrote:
> 
> > Has anyone attempted to implement the kind of browser set of fields 
> > that you see in iTunes and in the OS X Finder? I need to design 
> > something like that for a particular application that will allow 
> > the user to browser a hierarchical set of data that is partitioned 
> > into categories and subcategories.
> >
> > Currently, that's set up as a series of hierarchical folders and 
> > subfolders on the file server and I want to provide an easy way for 
> > them to browse and then use the data files.
> 
> I'm interested too. And along with that, I'd be interested if anybody 
> had code they wanted to share for incremental searches. I can't quite 
> figure out how that's done (efficiently).
> 
> Charles Hartman
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From preid at reidit.co.uk  Thu Oct 13 09:40:54 2005
From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:40:54 +0100
Subject: FileType
In-Reply-To: <348B17A9-D0AF-4EA7-81F8-334194A77955@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <0FAAB233-66C2-402B-9FE3-499FD494D959@skynet.be>
	<348B17A9-D0AF-4EA7-81F8-334194A77955@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <p06230903bf74129db253@[192.168.183.2]>

If you download and use the free utility called TinkerTool (currently v3.61):

   http://www.bresink.com/osx/TinkerTool.html

you can change the screen capture format to any 
of PNG, PDF, TIFF, PICT, JPEG-JFIF, JPEG-2000, 
BMP, GIF, PSD, SGi, TGA!  So you can have almost 
any flavour of graphic file from an OS X 10.4 
screen grab.

Alternatively, you can use variants of the normal 
screen grab shift+cmd+3 and selection grab 
shift+cmd+4 to put the grabbed info into the 
clipboard instead of creating a new file.  The 
variants are ctrl+shift+cmd+3 and ctrl+ 
shift+cmd+4.  I often use these variants to grab 
into the clipboard and then paste into 
GraphicConverter:

   http://www.lemkesoft.com/en/graphcon.htm

where I can do further manipulation and then save 
in any of an enormous number of different graphic 
file formats.

Cheers

Peter

>Hi Yves,
>
>With Capture (shipped with Mac OS Tiger):
>Type: PNGf
>Creator: prvw (preview/aper?u)
>
>Le 13 oct. 05 ? 12:31, Yves COPPE a ?crit :
>
>>Hi list
>>
>>
>>With mac OSX 10.4.2, the screen capture has changed of fileformat
>>Before, in the previous mac OS X(Panther) it was a .pdf file
>>Now it's a .png file
>>
>>
>>Can you tell me what's the typefile of the 
>>image file created with a screen capture ?
>>
>>Thank you
>>
>>
>>Greetings.
>>
>>Yves COPPE
>
>Best Regards from Paris,
>
>Eric Chatonet.
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>So Smart Software


-- 
Peter Reid
Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk


From jhurley at infostations.com  Thu Oct 13 10:12:32 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:12:32 -0700
Subject: Question on message handling
In-Reply-To: <20051013033320.6B1FF82512F@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051013033320.6B1FF82512F@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230932bf7414dd67fd@[69.85.158.21]>

>
>Message: 17
>Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:26:20 -0500
>From: Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com>
>Subject: Re: Question on message handling
>To: Use Revolution List <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Message-ID: <BF72F7BC.2D8F8%kray at sonsothunder.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"
>
>On 10/12/05 2:22 PM, "Jim Hurley" <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:
>
>>  What  puzzles me is that the card apparently gets the keyDown message
>>  before the field does. That is exactly what I am looking for, but I
>>  don't quite  see why. If I'm typing in a field, why doesn't the
>>  field get the message before the card? Is that the priority that is
>>  set when the text is not locked, i.e. card first, field last?
>
>No... in fact I created a simple test stack with a field with this script:
>
>on keyDown
>   put "Field" after msg
>   pass keydown
>end keyDown
>
>and a card script that said:
>
>on keyDown
>   put "Card" after msg
>   pass keydown
>end keyDown
>
>And when I clicked in the field, the message box read:
>
>   FieldCard
>
>So the field is definitely getting the message first (which is what I would
>expect).
>
Ken Ray

Jacque and Ken,

Yes, I see. I'm afraid I expressed myself badly--and incorrectly.

I am working on a transcription stack, i.e. a stack which will speak 
an audio file while the user types what he or she hears into a field. 
There is no field script. The card script is:

on keyDown theKey

switch theKey
case "/"
   send "mouseUP" to button "pause"
   break
case "\"
   send "mouseUP" to button "resume"
   break
default
   pass keyDown
end switch

end keyDown

When the user types a "/" the speech pauses. When the user types  "\" 
the speech resumes--actually it backs up a little bit and then 
resumes. The keyboard replaces the usual foot pedal in transcription 
hardware.

What I found surprising (and welcome) is that the back and forward 
slashes never appear in the field. The key stroke is never passed 
back to the field for display after it is caught by the card script. 
(It would be if there were a "pass keyDown" in the first two case 
statements.) So apparently the field gets the message first, then 
then card (as you both say) and then, if the key stroke is passed by 
the card script, it is passed back to the field display for viewing. 
I was wrong to speak of this last message as part of the conventional 
message passing path. Maybe "display" message? The keyDown message is 
never *displayed* unless it is passed through all of RR message 
handlers--display is  the last in line. And as Martha Stewart would 
say: It is a good thing.

Thanks,

Jim











From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Thu Oct 13 10:57:47 2005
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:57:47 +0200
Subject: FileType
In-Reply-To: <p06230903bf74129db253@[192.168.183.2]>
References: <0FAAB233-66C2-402B-9FE3-499FD494D959@skynet.be>
	<348B17A9-D0AF-4EA7-81F8-334194A77955@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<p06230903bf74129db253@[192.168.183.2]>
Message-ID: <B3696207-5B79-438C-8176-292144A9AE21@skynet.be>


Le 13-oct.-05 ? 15:40, Peter Reid a ?crit :

> If you download and use the free utility called TinkerTool  
> (currently v3.61):
>
>   http://www.bresink.com/osx/TinkerTool.html
>
> you can change the screen capture format to any of PNG, PDF, TIFF,  
> PICT, JPEG-JFIF, JPEG-2000, BMP, GIF, PSD, SGi, TGA!  So you can  
> have almost any flavour of graphic file from an OS X 10.4 screen grab.

Thank you to Eric and Peter for the informations.

it's alright




Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be



From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Thu Oct 13 11:08:25 2005
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:08:25 -0400
Subject: Google invite
In-Reply-To: <BF71FE5C.2EEF0%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BF73F0A9.10A7D%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

Can someone send me a google invite?




            |    |    |
           )_)  )_)  )_)
          )___))___))___)\
         )____)____)_____)\\
       _____|____|____|____\\\__
-------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
 ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
       ^^^^      ^^^

24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (787) 809-8426

Blue Water Maritime
P.O. Box 91
Puerto Real, PR 00740





From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Oct 13 11:13:34 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:13:34 -0700
Subject: Question on message handling
In-Reply-To: <p06230932bf7414dd67fd@[69\.85\.158\.21]>
References: <20051013033320.6B1FF82512F@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230932bf7414dd67fd@[69.85.158.21]>
Message-ID: <891209439.20051013081334@ahsoftware.net>

Jim-

Thursday, October 13, 2005, 7:12:32 AM, you wrote:

> What I found surprising (and welcome) is that the back and forward
> slashes never appear in the field. The key stroke is never passed 
> back to the field for display after it is caught by the card script.
> (It would be if there were a "pass keyDown" in the first two case 
> statements.) So apparently the field gets the message first, then 
> then card (as you both say) and then, if the key stroke is passed by
> the card script, it is passed back to the field display for viewing.
> I was wrong to speak of this last message as part of the conventional
> message passing path. Maybe "display" message? The keyDown message is
> never *displayed* unless it is passed through all of RR message 
> handlers--display is  the last in line. And as Martha Stewart would 
> say: It is a good thing.


Right. If you had a "keydown" handler in the field itself it would be
intercepting the message. Since you don't, the message works its way
down the hierarchy until it's grabbed by the card. Since you're
handling the slash keystrokes yourself and never passing them on,
that's the end of things. All the other keystrokes are passed onto the
engine, which wakes up and says "somebody pressed a key in this field
- I'd better put the char in there". The slash chars never get to the
"pass keydown" message, so the engine never gets its wakeup call.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From got at mindspring.com  Thu Oct 13 11:19:05 2005
From: got at mindspring.com (Gordon Tillman)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:19:05 -0500
Subject: Google invite
In-Reply-To: <BF73F0A9.10A7D%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
References: <BF73F0A9.10A7D%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <CD9D6AB0-812E-496E-AF17-5F62E8EF5023@mindspring.com>

Done!

--gordy

On Oct 13, 2005, at 10:08, Bill wrote:

> Can someone send me a google invite?
>
>
>
>
>             |    |    |
>            )_)  )_)  )_)
>           )___))___))___)\
>          )____)____)_____)\\
>        _____|____|____|____\\\__
> -------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
>  ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
>        ^^^^      ^^^
>
> 24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
> fax: (787) 809-8426
>
> Blue Water Maritime
> P.O. Box 91
> Puerto Real, PR 00740
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Oct 13 12:00:14 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:00:14 +0100
Subject: Field Problems
In-Reply-To: <OF0A4F09A8.A0E2FF39-ONC1257099.00485F26-C1257099.00486344@deutsche-boerse
	.com>
References: <OF0A4F09A8.A0E2FF39-ONC1257099.00485F26-C1257099.00486344@deutsche-boerse
	.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bf7434a975c4@[192.168.0.100]>

Hi,

Ok, I've got it working now, you are right using the hilitedline 
property is much more reliable, but one further question:

How can I un-lite a line in a field?

Thanks a lot
Dave

>this could be a selectionchanged handler intercepting it...
>
>try to run this handler with "lock messages" before you run it...
>
>if it still kills the (it's NOT a thread) execution, it's probably an
>error in myline... If it runs, there's a frontscript (maybe) event handler
>catching your change of selection (but im doudtfull)...
>
>BTW, to hilite a line in a "listbehavior" field, i've found it more
>reliable to use "set the hilitedline of fld x to myline" than the
>good old "select line..."
>
>cheers
>Xavier
>
>use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 13/10/2005 15:07:49:
>
>>  Hi All,
>>
>>  I am experiencing a problem using a Field List. I have a handler that
>>  updates the field, and in it I have the following lines:
>>
>>  enable me
>>  disable me
>>  select line myLine of me
>>
>>  All of which, when stepped over with the debugger cause the Handler
>>  to quit, actually the whole message thread in killed.
>>
>>  Does anyone have any idea of what could be causing this problem?
>>
>>  Thanks a lot
>>  Dave
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  use-revolution mailing list
>>  use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>  subscription preferences:
>>  http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
>-----------------------------------------
>Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
>                                                          
>IMPORTANT MESSAGE
>
>Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
>International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
>this message.
>
>The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
>legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
>not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
>any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
>prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
>those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
>states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
>its affiliates or subsidiaries.
>
>END OF DISCLAIMER
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>subscription preferences:
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From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Oct 13 12:31:26 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:31:26 +0200
Subject: Field Problems
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bf7434a975c4@[192.168.0.100]>
References: <OF0A4F09A8.A0E2FF39-ONC1257099.00485F26-C1257099.00486344@deutsche-boerse
	.com> <a05210600bf7434a975c4@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <6482CD79-886B-4FD8-AE11-FE1F54853E3F@major-k.de>

Hi David,

> Hi,
>
> Ok, I've got it working now, you are right using the hilitedline  
> property is much more reliable, but one further question:
> How can I un-lite a line in a field?

set the hilitedlines of fld xyz to 0

> Thanks a lot
> Dave

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From zellner at tamu.edu  Thu Oct 13 12:44:18 2005
From: zellner at tamu.edu (Ronald Zellner)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:44:18 -0500
Subject: StandAlone that saves
Message-ID: <4E10CA03-4556-4626-A904-15DF5A4C30D7@tamu.edu>

I have the basics on this OK- I have a stack that I want the end user  
to be able to update.

I have a "Splash Screen" stack that opens the main stack and that is  
what I use to create the standalone.

  I don't get the Rev icon on the Mac app file (have it selected in  
the standalone settings)

On the PC side, I get a folder with the two files:  SplashScreen.exe  
and MainStack.rev

I'm using Rev2.6.1    I don't get the Rev Icons, I get generic icons  
for both (with Rev 2.5 and 2.6 I get the icons, but the other problem  
is still there).



Functionally, everything works with the OSX standalone, the problem  
is with the Windows:

The main problem is when the .exe file is opened it produces an error  
message:

       "The application or DLL   C:\...............\MainStack.rev is  
not a valid Windows image. Please check this against your  
installation disk."

When I click 'OK' the stack opens fine, works properly, and saves  
properly, just produces the same error each time it is opened.

It didn't do this in previous versions so it may be something changed  
in the stack or the standalone settings.  Whatever it is, I can't  
find it.  Any insights?

Ron


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Oct 13 12:56:06 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:56:06 +0200
Subject: Field Problems
In-Reply-To: <6482CD79-886B-4FD8-AE11-FE1F54853E3F@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <20051013162644.32C488249AD@mail.runrev.com>


just the faq of it, you can also set multiple hilites with 

set the hilitedlines of field x to "1,4,12,9"

or set them to empty...

get it?

get the hilitedlines of field x
set them to somethingelse

or 

if they are empty...

or

if they are 2 by 2... ;)

language extensions in rev... my lexical dream :)

cheers
Xav
http://monsieurx.com - spining out in rev! ;)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Klaus Major
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:31 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Field Problems
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > Ok, I've got it working now, you are right using the hilitedline 
> > property is much more reliable, but one further question:
> > How can I un-lite a line in a field?
> 
> set the hilitedlines of fld xyz to 0
> 
> > Thanks a lot
> > Dave
> 
> Regards
> 
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> http://www.major-k.de
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 13 12:55:18 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:55:18 -0700
Subject: Field Problems
In-Reply-To: <6482CD79-886B-4FD8-AE11-FE1F54853E3F@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <BF73DF86.2EF9A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

it is more fun to un-hilite with animation
--set the fld to multi line list behaviour
put the number of lines in fld xyz into maxx
set the hilitedlines of fld xyz to 3
wait 300 millisecs
set the hilitedlines of fld xyz to 5
wait 300 millisecs
set the hilitedlines of fld xyz to 2,3
wait 300 millisecs
set the hilitedlines of fld xyz to random(maxx), random(maxx)
wait 300 millisecs
set the hilitedlines of fld xyz to random(maxx), random(maxx), random(maxx)
wait 300 millisecs
set the hilitedlines of fld xyz to 0

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 10/13/05 9:31 AM, "Klaus Major" <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:

> Hi David,
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Ok, I've got it working now, you are right using the hilitedline
>> property is much more reliable, but one further question:
>> How can I un-lite a line in a field?
> 
> set the hilitedlines of fld xyz to 0
> 
>> Thanks a lot
>> Dave
> 
> Regards
> 
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> http://www.major-k.de
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From irog at mac.com  Thu Oct 13 13:55:50 2005
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:55:50 -0700
Subject: Browser Fields
In-Reply-To: <20051013134612.26665824F06@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051013134612.26665824F06@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <7EA21A05-473B-40A1-AD70-9F8A9EEF8752@mac.com>

Hello Jesse,

I have done a limited amount of this kind of thing in a curriculum  
development tool that we've built for teachers at a local Seattle  
school.  I've not had a great deal of experience using Rev., so my  
work would no doubt be perceived as unsophisticated . . . at least by  
some.  Nevertheless, I would be happy to share what I've done with  
you.  This project is a fairly complex application, and I don't have  
time to trim it down for general distribution.  So, just email me  
directly, and we'll work something out.

Cheers, Roger


On Oct 13, 2005, at 6:46 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com  
wrote:

> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:40:22 +0800
> From: Jesse Sng <jsng at wayoflife.org>
> Subject: Browser Fields
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <p06210201bf7394de9d3a@[192.168.1.109]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
> Hi,
>
> Has anyone attempted to implement the kind of browser set of fields
> that you see in iTunes and in the OS X Finder? I need to design
> something like that for a particular application that will allow the
> user to browser a hierarchical set of data that is partitioned into
> categories and subcategories.
>
> Currently, that's set up as a series of hierarchical folders and
> subfolders on the file server and I want to provide an easy way for
> them to browse and then use the data files.
>
>
> Jesse Sng
>



From denis at ispcfg.rimed.cu  Thu Oct 13 07:58:03 2005
From: denis at ispcfg.rimed.cu (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Denis_Fern=E1ndez?=)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:58:03 +0200
Subject: Arcade Engine.
References: <BF72BB56.38869%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <00ee01c5cfed$5dafac80$4832a8c0@odiseo>

I need activate a Arcade Enigne for revolution,

Help me

Denis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Geist" <tg.lists at geistinteractive.com>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: Image woes...


> Still having problems
>
> On 10/12/05 4:59 AM, "Klaus Major" <klaus at major-k.de> wrote:
> > Hmm, that does work actually, i use this almost everyday.
> >
> > Did you check the image on disk with an image viewer?
> > Maybe it got corrupted somehow...
>
> Here is what I am doing. Mac OSX 10.4.1 Rev 2.6.1
>
> I use button with the following handler to grab an image of the clipboard
> and place it in a file on my desktop.
>
> ON mouseUp
>
>     put the clipboardData["image"] into img "image"
>     put specialFolderPath("desktop") & "/test.png" into tPath
>     put "binfile:" & tPath into tURL
>     put img "image" into URL tURL
> END MouseUP
>
> -->  test.png is created on on the desktop and looks good when opened with
> "Preview".  And img "image" shows the image contents.
>
> I have a second button with this handler to copy the image back off the
disk
> into  a second image control.
>
> ON mouseUp
>     put specialFolderPath("desktop") & "/test.png" into tPath
>     put URL tURL into img "image2"
>     put the result
> END MouseUP
>
> -->  FAILS.  The second image control img "image2" is still empty.
>
> Any clues?
>
> Thanks very much
>
>
> Todd
> --
>
> Todd Geist
> ______________________________________
> g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> --
> Este mensaje ha sido analizado por MailScanner
> en busca de virus y otros contenidos peligrosos,
> y se considera que est? limpio.



-- 
Este mensaje ha sido analizado por MailScanner
en busca de virus y otros contenidos peligrosos,
y se considera que est? limpio.



From dleyanna at rtl.org  Thu Oct 13 14:37:25 2005
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:37:25 -0400
Subject: Script printing pProblems not solved in 2.6.1?
Message-ID: <434EA965.1070906@rtl.org>

Using Windows XP...

A while back I mentioned that I was having problems with CR but no LF 
when I was printing scripts out of the script editor. I never got around 
to fixing it using the ideas mentioned in Bugzilla, I just put up with 
it waiting for the maintenance upgrade.

It's hard to believe that every Win XP user has this problem so it must 
be that I'm one of the few... However, it still seems to be a problem in 
2.6.1 and I see no mention of it in the changelog.txt and see no mention 
of the problem in this list.

Am I the only Windows user with this issue?

Dave


From katir at hindu.org  Thu Oct 13 05:05:40 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:05:40 -1000
Subject: 2.6.1 release notes?
In-Reply-To: <7d202c6b385f3996fd601cbec38f592e@rpsystems.net>
References: <7956FFD5-90CE-4764-B113-48F7C9FF67D0@hindu.org>
	<7d202c6b385f3996fd601cbec38f592e@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <C716273A-B46A-4438-8FDF-4C805A329B58@hindu.org>


On Oct 12, 2005, at 6:25 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>> Version 2.6.1 is a bug fix and maintenance release.  For more  
>> details, please
>> see the IDEChangeLog.txt and EngineChangeLog.txt files in the  
>> distribution
>> folder."
>>
>
> In the Root of the new Rev folder (the same place you found  
> "Whats_new.txt") is "Change_Log_2.6.1.txt"

duh...  ok, yes it's there... so much for using spotlight  to find  
"IDEChangeLog.txt"..
>>
>> ?? Entering "deep mask" in the documentation results in nothing...
>
> Also in the root of the install folder is "DeepMaskSampler.rev"

Right, of course I saw that... but...  is this all there is to it?  
setting a window shape to an image with transparency... some how with  
all the "hype" over this new feature I keep expecting to find more in  
the realm of "Deep masks: create animated translucent windows and  
effects..."  so, where is elucidation of "animated" and  
"effects" .... that sample is just a static window shape....

Sivakatirswami (who is trying to make his UI's, just a little bit  
more attractive...so as not to project the idea the Revolution is  
"ugly" which of course is not Rev's fault, but lack of attention-time  
to design on the developer's part...  everyone is hooked on out of  
the box  graphics "wow" factor of... e.g. KeyNote... which, by the  
way cannot play a sound continously through several slides! )


>
>



From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Oct 13 15:05:45 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:05:45 -0300
Subject: 2.6.1 release notes?
In-Reply-To: <C716273A-B46A-4438-8FDF-4C805A329B58@hindu.org>
References: <7956FFD5-90CE-4764-B113-48F7C9FF67D0@hindu.org>
	<7d202c6b385f3996fd601cbec38f592e@rpsystems.net>
	<C716273A-B46A-4438-8FDF-4C805A329B58@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <3A800E9C-5A70-49B4-A701-9AA724081CEF@mac.com>


On Oct 13, 2005, at 6:05 AM, Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Right, of course I saw that... but...  is this all there is to it?  
> setting a window shape to an image with transparency... some how  
> with all the "hype" over this new feature I keep expecting to find  
> more in the realm of "Deep masks: create animated translucent  
> windows and effects..."  so, where is elucidation of "animated" and  
> "effects" .... that sample is just a static window shape....
>
>


Sivakatirswami,

if you could just see what marvels can Scott Rossi create with deep  
masks you'd be amazed (or like me shouting: "why can't everyone be  
Scott Rossi!!!!!"). The cool thing about transparency is that by  
overlaying stacks you can create amazing effects, for example imagine  
the classic boing ball that bounce inside a stack, you could do that  
by moving a image inside a card, but just think about this, create a  
ball using deep mask in it's own stack, get the rect of the square  
stack and move the ball stack as a bouce ball... then with the click  
of a button or a specific keypress you could free your boing ball  
from the constraint of the stack window and make it bounce on the  
window rect... its a nice effect!!! This was one of the DEMOs that I  
saw at the Monterey Conference. It's nothing but eye candy and  
surprise, I remember thinking: "Heck, that ball is a stack!", it's  
nothing but eye candy, but a sweet candy it is!!!


Want a pratical use for deep masks (I don't know if it is usefull,  
just thought of that now), create yourself your own tool tip stack,  
it might look like ballons from comics, like half transparent with  
text, you could use HTML inside the ballon so you could add "want to  
know more?" links. You can create a function that will attach/display  
this tooltip stack for any control in your stack, just by hidding or  
showing the stack and moving it... (I liked this idea, might  
implement it soon as I have 2.6)

Also imagine you're building a interactive help system that works  
like this, the user after triggering help mode, is presented with a  
magnifying (heck, how do I spell this!) glass, by hoovering the glass  
over screen controls a little window blends up next to the glass with  
help... this could be done with cursors and some wise stack moving,  
but if you use deepmasks you can by switching masks achieve all this  
effects in a more elegant way...

don't know, I am just too excited with those things...

andre



From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Oct 13 15:15:08 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:15:08 -0700
Subject: Handling HTML Form POST in Rev?
In-Reply-To: <p06230903bf73d971621f@[192.168.183.2]>
References: <p06230903bf73d971621f@[192.168.183.2]>
Message-ID: <2ED8067B-9E94-4391-841D-789860F6B0C8@danshafer.com>

I'm probably missing something here, but if you're not building a Web  
application that runs on a Web server, why are you using a browser  
and HTML at all? A browser's only job, really, is to provide an  
interface between a user desktop and information stored on a Web  
server. (Yeah, I know it *can* be used for other things, but they're  
not its natural function.)

Assuming I'm just not completely wacko here (and there's always that  
possibility), this seems like a job for Revolution all by its  
lonesome. Create the form as a set of fields and other input controls  
in a Rev stack.


On Oct 13, 2005, at 2:33 AM, Peter Reid wrote:

> I want this to run as a standalone app without the need for a local  
> web server.  So my user would fill in a form on screen which has  
> been designed using standard HTML, click on the "Send" button and  
> my Rev app would receive the content of the form.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Oct 13 15:23:43 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:23:43 -0300
Subject: Handling HTML Form POST in Rev?
In-Reply-To: <2ED8067B-9E94-4391-841D-789860F6B0C8@danshafer.com>
References: <p06230903bf73d971621f@[192.168.183.2]>
	<2ED8067B-9E94-4391-841D-789860F6B0C8@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <F8983AE2-BFBD-4C33-8E64-36B0BD01AA9F@mac.com>

Also doing form validation in Rev is way easier than in HTML +  
Javascript. It's just me or those AJAX guys seems a little code  
masochists...

Cheers
andre

On Oct 13, 2005, at 4:15 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> I'm probably missing something here, but if you're not building a  
> Web application that runs on a Web server, why are you using a  
> browser and HTML at all? A browser's only job, really, is to  
> provide an interface between a user desktop and information stored  
> on a Web server. (Yeah, I know it *can* be used for other things,  
> but they're not its natural function.)
>
> Assuming I'm just not completely wacko here (and there's always  
> that possibility), this seems like a job for Revolution all by its  
> lonesome. Create the form as a set of fields and other input  
> controls in a Rev stack.
>
>
> On Oct 13, 2005, at 2:33 AM, Peter Reid wrote:
>
>
>> I want this to run as a standalone app without the need for a  
>> local web server.  So my user would fill in a form on screen which  
>> has been designed using standard HTML, click on the "Send" button  
>> and my Rev app would receive the content of the form.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
> http://www.shafermedia.com
> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Oct 13 15:11:10 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:11:10 -0700
Subject: Manipulate Stacks with Duplicate Names?
In-Reply-To: <BF734B7B.22A85%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF734B7B.22A85%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <p0621021bbf7460bb4754@[66.93.39.98]>

At 11:23 PM -0700 10/12/2005, Scott Rossi wrote:
>  >> Is there any way to distinguish between newly created
>>>  (unsaved) stacks that have the same name?
>
>>  How about using the stack's ID?
>
>I seem to recall reading on the list long ago that it was somehow possible
>for multiple opened stacks to have duplicate IDs, and (because of this)
>referencing stacks by ID wasn't reliable.  Is this actually the case or have
>I spent years mistakenly avoiding referencing stacks by ID?

There are some nuances. Newly created stacks start out with ID 1002. 
A stack's ID increments when you create an object, and you can also 
change it manually.

So you'd need to do a little work: "set the ID of last stack" when 
you create it, or set the ID in the templateStack before creation, 
and make sure to choose the numbers such that there's no overlap 
possibility if you're creating objects in the new stack. But it 
should be workable.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Oct 13 16:48:48 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:48:48 +0100
Subject: Browser Fields
In-Reply-To: <OF721E8999.E0CA8A53-ONC1257099.00454840-C1257099.0049C89C@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OF721E8999.E0CA8A53-ONC1257099.00454840-C1257099.0049C89C@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <434EC830.8020103@tweedly.net>

xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:

>As for incremental searches, it's just a look searching the next word and 
>adding the findings to the
>results list. Isn't it? Let me know if you can't see how it's done...
>
>  
>
Yes and no.

>Please explain in what way it is incremental? search words, searching 
>targets?...
>  
>
I understand "incremental search" to mean that the searching (and 
display) happens in real time as I type the search string. So as soon as 
I hit "a" it highlights the first (occurrence of an "a"), then when I 
type "l" it highlights the first occurrence of "al", etc. Examples 
include emacs (gets it right), Firefox on-page search (gets it wrong, 
IMO, by not rewinding the search properly if I use backspace to remove 
parts of the search string), and others. This avoids the problem of 
having to guess how much of a string is needed to make it relatively unique.

I especially like the fact that in Emacs you can tell it (ctrl-w) to 
take the rest of the currently found word, and move that into the search 
string - this is a big help when searching for calls to functions from a 
library, for instance.

And no, I have never written one in Transcript, but often meant to, so I 
might just have a play with it now ....

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/2005



From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Oct 13 16:54:38 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:54:38 -0700
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <F8983AE2-BFBD-4C33-8E64-36B0BD01AA9F@mac.com>
References: <p06230903bf73d971621f@[192.168.183.2]>
	<2ED8067B-9E94-4391-841D-789860F6B0C8@danshafer.com>
	<F8983AE2-BFBD-4C33-8E64-36B0BD01AA9F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <DDE59D78-A78D-4B73-B97A-984318EE47A6@danshafer.com>

Andre......

I've been doing a LOT of thinking and analysis and research and  
investigation the past two weeks on this topic, so your post  
triggered in me a thought that perhaps I should share some of my  
conclusions with this group.

I am acutely aware of Richard Gaskin's wonderful thinking in his  
essay, "Beyond the Browser", as I write these thoughts. (URL: http:// 
www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/netapps.html) And I want to say  
at the outset that my thoughts are still forming, so none of this is  
conclusion so much as it is interim feeling.

Given that one knows how to program reasonably proficiently in Rev  
and given Rev's superb ability to interact with the Internet in many  
different ways, why in the world would one want to learn, master or  
use techniques that deploy applications inside the Web browser? That  
question's been on my mind a lot lately. I have lost two projects in  
the past six months because I insisted on using Rev for them. In one  
case, only Java would have actually satisfied the client and since  
I'm entirely too old to learn Java (or, for that matter, to wait for  
Java apps to compile), but the other one would have been mine if I'd  
been willing to write it in anything viewed by the client as  
standard. That by itself isn't enough reason to change tools.

Another client for whom I've written three relatively large apps in  
Rev has been advised by his new CEO to require me to rewrite them in  
some more standard language or tool/environment. He may not listen to  
the advice but he has raised the interesting question of what happens  
if I (his language) "get stomped on by a dinosaur". Even though the  
apps would keep running, of course, finding programmers to maintain  
and extend them would be significantly more difficult than with, say,  
Basic or Java or C++ (which I will never learn). Or, for that matter,  
JavaScript/XML.

So one reason to investigate alternative development tools and  
languages is just the whole issue of critical mass of programming  
talent and deployment options.

Another upside to doing Web apps in AJAX or some other open tool (my  
current favorite being Laszlo - URL: http://www.laszlosystems.com and  
http://www.openlaszlo.org) is that *all* of the issues of cross- 
platform delivery just go away. Yeah, there are still some minor  
inconveniences with cross-browser issues but with Laszlo in  
particular they are absolutely ignorable. Laszlo spits out SWF files  
that play in any Flash player from 5.0 forward, and because of the  
Flash technology are guaranteed to work in any browser (since over  
99% of them  have Flash plug-ins already installed).

Which brings me to the third major plus for Web apps: they just work  
without the user having to download, install, configure or even know  
about the application itself. A nice side effect: if the app needs  
upgrading or fixing, you fix it one place and everyone gets it  
without hassle or even necessarily being aware of it.

Until now, the biggest single drawback to Web apps -- at least in my  
mind and that of many others -- has been the extremely limited and  
limiting UI the browser affords. But with Laszlo in particular and  
increasingly with AJAX, that limitation is disappearing.

Now, lest you conclude that I'm ready to chuck Rev in favor of Laszlo  
or AJAX, let me assure you that isn't in the cards, at least not yet.  
Because standalone apps still have some big advantages and of course  
Rev adds to those with its rapid development capability for cross- 
platform software. Standalone apps are still:

* generally faster than Web apps
* not dependent upon a reasonably fast Internet connection
* not dependent on a server "out there somewhere" being up and  
running and not overloaded
* better looking with better user experiences (at least potentially)
* easier to protect against unauthorized use
* able to read and write data to and from the user's local drive  
(which neither Laszlo nor AJAX can do, being confined in a security  
sandbox)

So that's my take for the moment. I don't claim any of this to be  
exhaustive, of course; there are lots of pros and cons of both kinds  
of apps that I've omitted either because I can't think of them at the  
moment or because I don't know about them at all.

We live in interesting times.

On Oct 13, 2005, at 12:23 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> It's just me or those AJAX guys seems a little code masochists...
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From userev at canelasoftware.com  Thu Oct 13 17:00:18 2005
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:00:18 -0700
Subject: 2.6.1 release notes?
In-Reply-To: <C716273A-B46A-4438-8FDF-4C805A329B58@hindu.org>
References: <7956FFD5-90CE-4764-B113-48F7C9FF67D0@hindu.org>
	<7d202c6b385f3996fd601cbec38f592e@rpsystems.net>
	<C716273A-B46A-4438-8FDF-4C805A329B58@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <1D16D5A4-2F0F-4F6F-83CF-82C13EE24744@canelasoftware.com>


On Oct 13, 2005, at 2:05 AM, Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Right, of course I saw that... but...  is this all there is to it?  
> setting a window shape to an image with transparency... some how  
> with all the "hype" over this new feature I keep expecting to find  
> more in the realm of "Deep masks: create animated translucent  
> windows and effects..."  so, where is elucidation of "animated" and  
> "effects" .... that sample is just a static window shape....
>
> Sivakatirswami (who is trying to make his UI's, just a little bit  
> more attractive...so as not to project the idea the Revolution is  
> "ugly" which of course is not Rev's fault, but lack of attention- 
> time to design on the developer's part...  everyone is hooked on  
> out of the box  graphics "wow" factor of... e.g. KeyNote... which,  
> by the way cannot play a sound continously through several slides! )


You should take a look at Scott Rossi's waving flag demonstration.   
If you can't find it, let me know and I'll e-mail it to you.


Mark Talluto
-- 
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From tjframe at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 17:30:47 2005
From: tjframe at gmail.com (TJ Frame)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:30:47 -0700
Subject: cWinCursor broke in 2.6.1?
Message-ID: <7348a9e80510131430n4af00eafl24e845553653f662@mail.gmail.com>

Is it just me or is the "Win Style Stack Resizer" button broken now in 2.6.1?
Seems the custom number for that cursor is now wrong
 And while we are on the subject, does anyone have a list of other system
cursor numbers for Windows? I bet there are more but I cant seem to locate a
lost of them.
 It would be nice if Rev either had a larger number of built in-cursors or
it came with a "cursor" stack of lots of custom cursor images in the proper
format that we can include if we want.
 - TJ


From bfr at nwlink.com  Thu Oct 13 17:38:29 2005
From: bfr at nwlink.com (Bruce Robertson)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:38:29 -0700
Subject: [Slightly OT] - Of Ajax, Ruby on Rails, and 37 Signals
In-Reply-To: <7E59972A-43CE-4774-974C-FB181A7F00F7@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <BF7421E5.46B74%bfr@nwlink.com>

> Rodney.....
> 
> I have to say this is one of the most reasoned and intelligent
> responses I've seen to the implied question, "Why doesn't everyone
> use Revolution?" It serves as a good reminder of a couple of great
> Truths of Programming. First, no one tool is suited for everything.
> Second, busy programmers often can't take time to learn a new tool
> even if it's a lot better than the old ones they know, especially if
> the new one is a big paradigm shift.
> 
> The point about Rev in a team environment is particularly well taken.
> 
> Thanks for sharing.

When dealing with multi-developer projects, another application to look at
is Servoy. It is a commercial product but is data source agnostic and uses
javascript as the programming language. It has the same deployment
advantages you have mentioned. 



From preid at reidit.co.uk  Thu Oct 13 18:07:16 2005
From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:07:16 +0100
Subject: Handling HTML Form POST in Rev?
In-Reply-To: <2ED8067B-9E94-4391-841D-789860F6B0C8@danshafer.com>
References: <p06230903bf73d971621f@[192.168.183.2]>
	<2ED8067B-9E94-4391-841D-789860F6B0C8@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <p0623090abf7489478240@[192.168.183.2]>

Hi Dan

I'm trying to produce a generic forms handler that can be used by 
people running surveys. Rather than try to make a generic forms 
design tool completely in Rev I thought I'd take advantage of the 
ease with which you can design forms in HTML.  Then capture the Send 
and parse and e-mail the info returned.  I could distribute the Rev 
forms app with an associated HTML file and the Rev app would be used 
to complete the form and send an e-mail of the results to a 
designated address.

The idea came from doing a similar thing with web pages on a 
university web site that used a cgi to e-mail the results and where I 
use a Rev app to analyse those results.

The problem is that I can't guarantee access to a web server with cgi 
on it in the variety of situations where I want to deploy these 
forms, so I thought I'd try to build the minimum web server 
functionality (enough to handle the form content) into my Rev app 
instead!

OK it may be a daft idea but it seemed worth investigating!

Peter

>I'm probably missing something here, but if you're not building a 
>Web application that runs on a Web server, why are you using a 
>browser and HTML at all? A browser's only job, really, is to provide 
>an interface between a user desktop and information stored on a Web 
>server. (Yeah, I know it *can* be used for other things, but they're 
>not its natural function.)
>
>Assuming I'm just not completely wacko here (and there's always that 
>possibility), this seems like a job for Revolution all by its 
>lonesome. Create the form as a set of fields and other input 
>controls in a Rev stack.
>
>
>On Oct 13, 2005, at 2:33 AM, Peter Reid wrote:
>
>>I want this to run as a standalone app without the need for a local 
>>web server.  So my user would fill in a form on screen which has 
>>been designed using standard HTML, click on the "Send" button and 
>>my Rev app would receive the content of the form.
>>
>
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
>http://www.shafermedia.com
>Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html

-- 
Peter Reid
Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk


From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Oct 13 18:11:34 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:11:34 -0300
Subject: the most weird of the errors ever... (almost like a cold boot)
Message-ID: <A48D6F1E-3752-43DB-BA08-042D60C17A63@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

I am experiencing some random crashes, but right now I experienced  
the most weird error ever... my screen went blank (actually blue,  
like shutdown) but it was not shutdown, then finder relaunched and  
poof no applications were running, before that Rev, iTunes, Safari  
and Mail were running... first thing Revolution locked, then  
everything exploded. I was doing some experiments with altBrowser,  
which is usually very stable here.

Environment is: MacOS X 10.4.1 with 1GB RAM, Revolution 2.5.1 and  
altBrowser 1.5

weird weird weird...

andre


From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Oct 13 18:14:33 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:14:33 -0300
Subject: Handling HTML Form POST in Rev?
In-Reply-To: <p0623090abf7489478240@[192.168.183.2]>
References: <p06230903bf73d971621f@[192.168.183.2]>
	<2ED8067B-9E94-4391-841D-789860F6B0C8@danshafer.com>
	<p0623090abf7489478240@[192.168.183.2]>
Message-ID: <F13AB9B7-FBB5-4B1C-A786-C03977D7BDA1@mac.com>


On Oct 13, 2005, at 7:07 PM, Peter Reid wrote:
>
> The problem is that I can't guarantee access to a web server with  
> cgi on it in the variety of situations where I want to deploy these  
> forms, so I thought I'd try to build the minimum web server  
> functionality (enough to handle the form content) into my Rev app  
> instead!
>
> OK it may be a daft idea but it seemed worth investigating!
>
> Peter
>

Peter,

if you're trying to build a little webserver in Rev, well, that is  
pretty easy, I have many versions of webserver built in rev running  
fine. Just log into my user space in RevOnline under "soapdog" and  
fetch your code! by the way, it's easy to parse forms submited too...


Andre

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct 13 18:24:19 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:24:19 -0500
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <DDE59D78-A78D-4B73-B97A-984318EE47A6@danshafer.com>
References: <p06230903bf73d971621f@[192.168.183.2]>	<2ED8067B-9E94-4391-841D-789860F6B0C8@danshafer.com>	<F8983AE2-BFBD-4C33-8E64-36B0BD01AA9F@mac.com>
	<DDE59D78-A78D-4B73-B97A-984318EE47A6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <434EDE93.4040602@hyperactivesw.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:

> Laszlo spits out SWF files  that play in 
> any Flash player from 5.0 forward, and because of the  Flash technology 
> are guaranteed to work in any browser (since over  99% of them  have 
> Flash plug-ins already installed).

Well, except for those of us who remove Flash because they can't stand 
all the animated ads on every web site. I hate Flash. But I take your point.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From preid at reidit.co.uk  Thu Oct 13 18:27:24 2005
From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:27:24 +0100
Subject: Handling HTML Form POST in Rev?
In-Reply-To: <F13AB9B7-FBB5-4B1C-A786-C03977D7BDA1@mac.com>
References: <p06230903bf73d971621f@[192.168.183.2]>
	<2ED8067B-9E94-4391-841D-789860F6B0C8@danshafer.com>
	<p0623090abf7489478240@[192.168.183.2]>
	<F13AB9B7-FBB5-4B1C-A786-C03977D7BDA1@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p0623090bbf748f8dfaa6@[192.168.183.2]>

Andre

Thanks for the feedback, which of your apps would you recommend for 
the simplest guidance on this?

>Peter,
>
>if you're trying to build a little webserver in Rev, well, that is 
>pretty easy, I have many versions of webserver built in rev running 
>fine. Just log into my user space in RevOnline under "soapdog" and 
>fetch your code! by the way, it's easy to parse forms submited too...
>
>Andre

-- 
Peter Reid
Reid-IT Limited, Loughborough, Leics., UK
E-mail: preid at reidit.co.uk


From howard.bornstein at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 18:43:25 2005
From: howard.bornstein at gmail.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:43:25 -0400
Subject: anomaly in dictionary entry explained in use-rev long ago;
	bug in uploading web notes?
In-Reply-To: <200510130620.j9D6KPME016252@ms-smtp-03.rdc-nyc.rr.com>
References: <200510130620.j9D6KPME016252@ms-smtp-03.rdc-nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3f07cc260510131543h3355dcd0jba368329d2d7f08@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/13/05, Dick Kriesel <dick.kriesel at mail.com> wrote:

> That seems like a worthy comment to add to the dictionary entries for the
> backgroundNames property and the remove command.  Unfortunately, the "Upload
> web note" button appears not to work, even though a dialog box reports
> "Upload complete."  At least, I can't see the note I uploaded for the
> backgroundNames property.  Can anyone else see newly uploaded web notes?
>
> -- Dick


I'm not seeing it here. Maybe try to upload it once more.

--
Regards,

Howard Bornstein
-----------------------
www.designeq.com


From jon at mandrake.net.au  Thu Oct 13 18:45:10 2005
From: jon at mandrake.net.au (Jon Biddell)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:45:10 +1000
Subject: Google invite
In-Reply-To: <BF73F0A9.10A7D%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
References: <BF73F0A9.10A7D%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <10D75D25-57D6-4604-B7BA-0AED4F6F5C95@mandrake.net.au>


On 14/10/2005, at 1:08 AM, Bill wrote:

> Can someone send me a google invite?
>

Ah, someone else beat me to it...

If anyone else wants one, I have 100 to get rid of.

Jon


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Oct 13 19:11:26 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:11:26 -0700
Subject: the most weird of the errors ever... (almost like a cold boot)
In-Reply-To: <A48D6F1E-3752-43DB-BA08-042D60C17A63@mac.com>
References: <A48D6F1E-3752-43DB-BA08-042D60C17A63@mac.com>
Message-ID: <18029880926.20051013161126@ahsoftware.net>

Andre-

Thursday, October 13, 2005, 3:11:34 PM, you wrote:

> weird weird weird...

...and it looks like Lula's in trouble, too...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Oct 13 19:10:12 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:10:12 -0700
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <434EDE93.4040602@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <p06230903bf73d971621f@[192.168.183.2]>	<2ED8067B-9E94-4391-841D-789860F6B0C8@danshafer.com>	<F8983AE2-BFBD-4C33-8E64-36B0BD01AA9F@mac.com>
	<DDE59D78-A78D-4B73-B97A-984318EE47A6@danshafer.com>
	<434EDE93.4040602@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <56E3D408-D129-446F-B330-DE967078B597@danshafer.com>

I guess I've gotten to a place where I ignore (as in don't even see)  
those animated ads any more. They don't bother me enough to miss the  
Flash content that i do like.

But your point is well taken as well. Flash isn't 100% ubiquitous.  
Neither, for that matter, is JavaScript.

On Oct 13, 2005, at 3:24 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Well, except for those of us who remove Flash because they can't  
> stand all the animated ads on every web site. I hate Flash. But I  
> take your point.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Oct 13 19:17:03 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:17:03 -0700
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <DDE59D78-A78D-4B73-B97A-984318EE47A6@danshafer.com>
References: <p06230903bf73d971621f@[192.168.183.2]>
	<2ED8067B-9E94-4391-841D-789860F6B0C8@danshafer.com>
	<F8983AE2-BFBD-4C33-8E64-36B0BD01AA9F@mac.com>
	<DDE59D78-A78D-4B73-B97A-984318EE47A6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <14730218431.20051013161703@ahsoftware.net>

Dan-

Thursday, October 13, 2005, 1:54:38 PM, you wrote:

> Another client for whom I've written three relatively large apps in
> Rev has been advised by his new CEO to require me to rewrite them in
> some more standard language or tool/environment. He may not listen to
> the advice but he has raised the interesting question of what happens
> if I (his language) "get stomped on by a dinosaur". Even though the
> apps would keep running, of course, finding programmers to maintain
> and extend them would be significantly more difficult than with, say,
> Basic or Java or C++ (which I will never learn). Or, for that matter,
> JavaScript/XML.

Back when I was doing hardware stuff, our one strict rule was "never
design a circuit with single-source parts". If your sole supplier gets
"stomped on by a dinosaur" you're SOL.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Oct 13 19:19:34 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:19:34 -0700
Subject: Handling HTML Form POST in Rev?
In-Reply-To: <p0623090abf7489478240@[192.168.183.2]>
References: <p06230903bf73d971621f@[192.168.183.2]>
	<2ED8067B-9E94-4391-841D-789860F6B0C8@danshafer.com>
	<p0623090abf7489478240@[192.168.183.2]>
Message-ID: <BB7906E7-BAB9-43F3-A0C6-4600829194F2@danshafer.com>

I'm not so sure it's a daft idea at all. I just didn't understand  
your original motive.

So you want to use HTML to *design* the forms (or, perhaps more  
accurately, to allow your users to design them) and then process the  
output via a Rev application. Interesting idea.

With altBrowser, I'm not sure you need to use the Web protocols to  
handle the form data. I haven't tried it -- and it would be worth  
querying Chipp and Chris at Altuit to see if I'm right here -- but I  
bet you could load an HTML form into altBrowser, then program a Rev  
button for the submission and just parse the data and route it to  
wherever you need it in Rev to do the analysis.

Of course, if you want a server or if it turns out you need one,  
certainly Andre's all-Rev Web server could be made part of the  
package you distribute and perhaps ease everything once you have it  
configured.

Keep us posted. Interesting project and intriguing approach.

On Oct 13, 2005, at 3:07 PM, Peter Reid wrote:

> OK it may be a daft idea but it seemed worth investigating!
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Oct 13 19:20:51 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:20:51 -0700
Subject: the most weird of the errors ever... (almost like a cold boot)
In-Reply-To: <A48D6F1E-3752-43DB-BA08-042D60C17A63@mac.com>
References: <A48D6F1E-3752-43DB-BA08-042D60C17A63@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BD33219A-7E8D-43CD-A317-B3FF0D0E849A@danshafer.com>

In theory, at least, that can't happen. In practice, it obviously  
did! I've had four black-screen-of-death crashes in the past 2+ weeks  
on my PBG4 with 10.4.2. I can't isolate them.

Maybe there's something in the air.


On Oct 13, 2005, at 3:11 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> I am experiencing some random crashes, but right now I experienced  
> the most weird error ever... my screen went blank (actually blue,  
> like shutdown) but it was not shutdown, then finder relaunched and  
> poof no applications were running, before that Rev, iTunes, Safari  
> and Mail were running... first thing Revolution locked, then  
> everything exploded. I was doing some experiments with altBrowser,  
> which is usually very stable here.
>
> Environment is: MacOS X 10.4.1 with 1GB RAM, Revolution 2.5.1 and  
> altBrowser 1.5
>
> weird weird weird...
>
> andre
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Oct 13 19:29:33 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:29:33 -0300
Subject: the most weird of the errors ever... (almost like a cold boot)
In-Reply-To: <BD33219A-7E8D-43CD-A317-B3FF0D0E849A@danshafer.com>
References: <A48D6F1E-3752-43DB-BA08-042D60C17A63@mac.com>
	<BD33219A-7E8D-43CD-A317-B3FF0D0E849A@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <E986A3AF-1D79-47BD-821F-53E17E490DFF@mac.com>


On Oct 13, 2005, at 8:20 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> In theory, at least, that can't happen. In practice, it obviously  
> did! I've had four black-screen-of-death crashes in the past 2+  
> weeks on my PBG4 with 10.4.2. I can't isolate them.
>
> Maybe there's something in the air.
>

solar flares? something related to the position of celestial bodies  
in relation to revolution md5 checksum? some you-will-need-a-mac- 
intel-box-soon trigger secretly made by apple in the last update?  
throw in your theory....

:-)

andre

From scott at proherp.com  Thu Oct 13 20:05:16 2005
From: scott at proherp.com (Scott Kane)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:05:16 +1000
Subject: the most weird of the errors ever... (almost like a cold boot)
In-Reply-To: <A48D6F1E-3752-43DB-BA08-042D60C17A63@mac.com>
Message-ID: <000101c5d052$f692f910$0201010a@proherps56yaxv>


> I am experiencing some random crashes, but right now I experienced  
> the most weird error ever... my screen went blank (actually blue,  
> like shutdown) but it was not shutdown, then finder relaunched and  
> poof no applications were running, before that Rev, iTunes, Safari  
> and Mail were running... first thing Revolution locked, then  
> everything exploded. I was doing some experiments with altBrowser,  
> which is usually very stable here.

So Apple finally caught up with Microsoft and the
"Blue Screen of Death".  Of course MS have years of
practice here and it will take Apple many OS versions
and patches to perfect - but they're in the right
direction...   <gd&r>

Scott Kane




From AbilityForms at aol.com  Thu Oct 13 20:17:16 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:17:16 EDT
Subject: Backscript
Message-ID: <1c8.3339bd66.3080530c@aol.com>

Hi Everyone,

Here's another foolish newbie question. How do I insert a handler into the 
backscripts?

Joe
Orlando, Florida


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct 13 20:21:35 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:21:35 -0700
Subject: Backscript
In-Reply-To: <1c8.3339bd66.3080530c@aol.com>
References: <1c8.3339bd66.3080530c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <434EFA0F.2040402@fourthworld.com>

AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Here's another foolish newbie question. How do I insert a handler into the 
> backscripts?

   insert script of btn "MyBackScript" into back

For more on backscripts, frontscripts, and libraries see:
<http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/revolution_message_path.html>

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Oct 13 20:37:58 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:37:58 -0400
Subject: the most weird of the errors ever... (almost like a cold boot)
In-Reply-To: <E986A3AF-1D79-47BD-821F-53E17E490DFF@mac.com>
References: <A48D6F1E-3752-43DB-BA08-042D60C17A63@mac.com>
	<BD33219A-7E8D-43CD-A317-B3FF0D0E849A@danshafer.com>
	<E986A3AF-1D79-47BD-821F-53E17E490DFF@mac.com>
Message-ID: <93ce8d6d302c6f33f6d8ecc3bdd28aa0@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 13, 2005, at 7:29 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> throw in your theory....

I'll go with ? two major updates to QuickTime and iTunes in about a 
month.  :-(
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From pastranadigital at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 23:53:07 2005
From: pastranadigital at gmail.com (Benjamin Pastrana)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:53:07 -0700
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 25, Issue 38
In-Reply-To: <20051013170003.24765824F10@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BF7479B3.61%pastranadigital@gmail.com>

I am getting a very Fancy Font in the properties palettes.
How I can set it to verdana or arial font?
Thanks

Benjamin


On 10/13/05 10:00 AM, "use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com"
<use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Send use-revolution mailing list submissions to
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> use-revolution-owner at lists.runrev.com
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of use-revolution digest..."
> 
> 
> you can find the archives for this list at:
> 
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/
> 
> and search them using this link:
> 
> http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:lists.runrev.com
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: FileType (Yves COPPE)
>    2. Google invite (Bill)
>    3. Re: Question on message handling (Mark Wieder)
>    4. Re: Google invite (Gordon Tillman)
>    5. Re: Field Problems (David Burgun)
>    6. Re: Field Problems (Klaus Major)
>    7. StandAlone that saves (Ronald Zellner)
>    8. RE: Field Problems (MisterX)
>    9. Re: Field Problems (Jim Ault)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:57:47 +0200
> From: Yves COPPE <yvescoppe at skynet.be>
> Subject: Re: FileType
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <B3696207-5B79-438C-8176-292144A9AE21 at skynet.be>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed
> 
> 
> Le 13-oct.-05 ? 15:40, Peter Reid a ?crit :
> 
>> If you download and use the free utility called TinkerTool
>> (currently v3.61):
>> 
>>   http://www.bresink.com/osx/TinkerTool.html
>> 
>> you can change the screen capture format to any of PNG, PDF, TIFF,
>> PICT, JPEG-JFIF, JPEG-2000, BMP, GIF, PSD, SGi, TGA!  So you can
>> have almost any flavour of graphic file from an OS X 10.4 screen grab.
> 
> Thank you to Eric and Peter for the informations.
> 
> it's alright
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Greetings.
> 
> Yves COPPE
> yvescoppe at skynet.be
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:08:25 -0400
> From: Bill <bill at bluewatermaritime.com>
> Subject: Google invite
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <BF73F0A9.10A7D%bill at bluewatermaritime.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> 
> Can someone send me a google invite?
> 
> 
> 
> 
>             |    |    |
>            )_)  )_)  )_)
>           )___))___))___)\
>          )____)____)_____)\\
>        _____|____|____|____\\\__
> -------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
>  ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
>        ^^^^      ^^^
> 
> 24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
> fax: (787) 809-8426
> 
> Blue Water Maritime
> P.O. Box 91
> Puerto Real, PR 00740
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:13:34 -0700
> From: Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net>
> Subject: Re: Question on message handling
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <891209439.20051013081334 at ahsoftware.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Jim-
> 
> Thursday, October 13, 2005, 7:12:32 AM, you wrote:
> 
>> What I found surprising (and welcome) is that the back and forward
>> slashes never appear in the field. The key stroke is never passed
>> back to the field for display after it is caught by the card script.
>> (It would be if there were a "pass keyDown" in the first two case
>> statements.) So apparently the field gets the message first, then
>> then card (as you both say) and then, if the key stroke is passed by
>> the card script, it is passed back to the field display for viewing.
>> I was wrong to speak of this last message as part of the conventional
>> message passing path. Maybe "display" message? The keyDown message is
>> never *displayed* unless it is passed through all of RR message
>> handlers--display is  the last in line. And as Martha Stewart would
>> say: It is a good thing.
> 
> 
> Right. If you had a "keydown" handler in the field itself it would be
> intercepting the message. Since you don't, the message works its way
> down the hierarchy until it's grabbed by the card. Since you're
> handling the slash keystrokes yourself and never passing them on,
> that's the end of things. All the other keystrokes are passed onto the
> engine, which wakes up and says "somebody pressed a key in this field
> - I'd better put the char in there". The slash chars never get to the
> "pass keydown" message, so the engine never gets its wakeup call.

-- 





From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Oct 13 21:06:39 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:06:39 -0700
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <14730218431.20051013161703@ahsoftware.net>
References: <p06230903bf73d971621f@[192.168.183.2]>
	<2ED8067B-9E94-4391-841D-789860F6B0C8@danshafer.com>
	<F8983AE2-BFBD-4C33-8E64-36B0BD01AA9F@mac.com>
	<DDE59D78-A78D-4B73-B97A-984318EE47A6@danshafer.com>
	<14730218431.20051013161703@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <79FD6137-50FC-46B5-8CBD-7CF7C305C9AB@danshafer.com>

I agree 100%. Unless, of course, I'm the sole source.

Dan

On Oct 13, 2005, at 4:17 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Back when I was doing hardware stuff, our one strict rule was "never
> design a circuit with single-source parts". If your sole supplier gets
> "stomped on by a dinosaur" you're SOL.
>



From dick.kriesel at mail.com  Fri Oct 14 00:06:07 2005
From: dick.kriesel at mail.com (Dick Kriesel)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:06:07 -0700
Subject: cannot create or edit web notes for the dictionary
Message-ID: <BF747CBF.13600%dick.kriesel@mail.com>

BugZilla 3185:

The  text style buttons produce error dialog boxes that mention a locked
script.

The "Upload web note" button leads to a dialog that says "Upload complete"
but the web note never appears in the dictionary entry.

The problem is not new in 2.6.1.  Long ago the buttons all worked.

-- Dick




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Oct 14 00:16:43 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:16:43 -0500
Subject: Question on message handling
In-Reply-To: <p06230932bf7414dd67fd@[69.85.158.21]>
Message-ID: <BF749B5B.2DAC8%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/13/05 9:12 AM, "Jim Hurley" <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:

> on keyDown theKey
> 
> switch theKey
> case "/"
>    send "mouseUP" to button "pause"
>    break
> case "\"
>    send "mouseUP" to button "resume"
>    break
> default
>    pass keyDown
> end switch
> 
> end keyDown
> 
> What I found surprising (and welcome) is that the back and forward
> slashes never appear in the field.

The reason for this is that you never pass the 'keydown' when the user types
"/" or "\". The only time keys will actually appear in a field is if the
keydown handler passes them.


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Oct 14 00:18:07 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:18:07 -0500
Subject: Manipulate Stacks with Duplicate Names?
In-Reply-To: <BF734B7B.22A85%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <BF749BAF.2DAC9%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/13/05 1:23 AM, "Scott Rossi" <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:

>>> Is there any way to distinguish between newly created
>>> (unsaved) stacks that have the same name?
> 
>> How about using the stack's ID?
> 
> I seem to recall reading on the list long ago that it was somehow possible
> for multiple opened stacks to have duplicate IDs, and (because of this)
> referencing stacks by ID wasn't reliable.  Is this actually the case or have
> I spent years mistakenly avoiding referencing stacks by ID?

Coul you use the windowID? Theoretically they'd have to be in separate
windows and that would require them to have unique windowIDs...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Oct 14 00:20:28 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:20:28 -0500
Subject: Fancy Font in Properties Palette (was: Re: use-revolution
 Digest, Vol 25, Issue 38)
In-Reply-To: <BF7479B3.61%pastranadigital@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BF749C3C.2DACB%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/13/05 10:53 PM, "Benjamin Pastrana" <pastranadigital at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am getting a very Fancy Font in the properties palettes.
> How I can set it to verdana or arial font?
> Thanks

Is this on Windows or Mac? And do you know what font is actually being
displayed? More information would help to be able to solve the problem...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Oct 14 00:35:33 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 06:35:33 +0200
Subject: cWinCursor broke in 2.6.1?
In-Reply-To: <7348a9e80510131430n4af00eafl24e845553653f662@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051014040543.8B4D2824FD6@mail.runrev.com>

Hi TJ

I filed a bugzilla on it yesterday

http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3182

I don?t remember the bugzilla for color cursors but it should have a million
votes on it by now ;)

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of TJ Frame
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:31 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: cWinCursor broke in 2.6.1?
> 
> Is it just me or is the "Win Style Stack Resizer" button 
> broken now in 2.6.1?
> Seems the custom number for that cursor is now wrong  And 
> while we are on the subject, does anyone have a list of other 
> system cursor numbers for Windows? I bet there are more but I 
> cant seem to locate a lost of them.
>  It would be nice if Rev either had a larger number of built 
> in-cursors or it came with a "cursor" stack of lots of custom 
> cursor images in the proper format that we can include if we want.
>  - TJ
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Oct 14 00:41:15 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 06:41:15 +0200
Subject: Browser Fields
In-Reply-To: <434EC830.8020103@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <20051014041124.2978D824E23@mail.runrev.com>

Alex

try this

The other button mentioned in the script is a checkbox to do search or
filters.
It's also easy to extend to do multi-hilites like Firefox.

<script> in field

on backspacekey
  send "keyup" to me in 300 milliseconds
  pass backspacekey
end backspacekey


on keyup thekey
  get me
  if it = empty then pass keyup
  if not the hilite of btn "Filter" then
    get lineoffset(it,fld "index")
    set the hilitedline of fld "index" to it
  else
    show fld "IndexFiltered"
    get fld "Index"
    filter it with "*"& me & "*"
    put it into fld "IndexFiltered"
  end if
end keyup

on closefield
  if me is empty then 
    hide fld "indexFiltered"
    show fld "Index"
  else
    show fld "indexFiltered"
    hide fld "Index"
  end if
end closefield

on enterinfield
  find me in fld "script"
end enterinfield

on returninfield
  get me
  find it in fld "object"
  if the foundtext is not me then
    put "'" & me & "' not found"
  end if
end returninfield
<end script>

Courtesy of TAOO libraries'... 

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Alex Tweedly
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 10:49 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Browser Fields
> 
> xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:
> 
> >As for incremental searches, it's just a look searching the 
> next word 
> >and adding the findings to the results list. Isn't it? Let 
> me know if 
> >you can't see how it's done...
> >
> >  
> >
> Yes and no.
> 
> >Please explain in what way it is incremental? search words, 
> searching 
> >targets?...
> >  
> >
> I understand "incremental search" to mean that the searching (and
> display) happens in real time as I type the search string. So 
> as soon as I hit "a" it highlights the first (occurrence of 
> an "a"), then when I type "l" it highlights the first 
> occurrence of "al", etc. Examples include emacs (gets it 
> right), Firefox on-page search (gets it wrong, IMO, by not 
> rewinding the search properly if I use backspace to remove 
> parts of the search string), and others. This avoids the 
> problem of having to guess how much of a string is needed to 
> make it relatively unique.
> 
> I especially like the fact that in Emacs you can tell it 
> (ctrl-w) to take the rest of the currently found word, and 
> move that into the search string - this is a big help when 
> searching for calls to functions from a library, for instance.
> 
> And no, I have never written one in Transcript, but often 
> meant to, so I might just have a play with it now ....
> 
> -- 
> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net
> 
> 
> 
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release 
> Date: 12/10/2005
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Oct 14 00:42:37 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 06:42:37 +0200
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <434EDE93.4040602@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <20051014041245.0561B824E23@mail.runrev.com>

Jacque,

I just filter them out with firefox's Adblock - and keep enjoying the good
flash games or animations out there. I like Flash! ;)

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> J. Landman Gay
> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 12:24 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
> 
> Dan Shafer wrote:
> 
> > Laszlo spits out SWF files  that play in any Flash player from 5.0 
> > forward, and because of the  Flash technology are 
> guaranteed to work 
> > in any browser (since over  99% of them  have Flash 
> plug-ins already 
> > installed).
> 
> Well, except for those of us who remove Flash because they 
> can't stand all the animated ads on every web site. I hate 
> Flash. But I take your point.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 14 01:13:10 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 00:13:10 -0500
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <56E3D408-D129-446F-B330-DE967078B597@danshafer.com>
References: <p06230903bf73d971621f@[192.168.183.2]>	<2ED8067B-9E94-4391-841D-789860F6B0C8@danshafer.com>	<F8983AE2-BFBD-4C33-8E64-36B0BD01AA9F@mac.com>
	<DDE59D78-A78D-4B73-B97A-984318EE47A6@danshafer.com>
	<434EDE93.4040602@hyperactivesw.com>
	<56E3D408-D129-446F-B330-DE967078B597@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <434F3E66.4000308@hyperactivesw.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:
> I guess I've gotten to a place where I ignore (as in don't even see)  
> those animated ads any more. They don't bother me enough to miss the  
> Flash content that i do like.

I use this:

<http://flashblock.mozdev.org/>

Works very well and leaves me in control.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From pastranadigital at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 04:15:39 2005
From: pastranadigital at gmail.com (Benjamin Pastrana)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 01:15:39 -0700
Subject: AXEL import?
In-Reply-To: <20051014044629.E9801825028@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BF74B73B.69%pastranadigital@gmail.com>

Does Revolution accepts AXEL files with interactivity??


http://www.mindavenue.com/en/products/





From pastranadigital at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 04:16:00 2005
From: pastranadigital at gmail.com (Benjamin Pastrana)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 01:16:00 -0700
Subject: AXEL
Message-ID: <BF74B750.69%pastranadigital@gmail.com>

Does Revolution accepts AXEL files with interactivity??


http://www.mindavenue.com/en/products/





From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Oct 14 01:22:29 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:22:29 -0700
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <DDE59D78-A78D-4B73-B97A-984318EE47A6@danshafer.com>
References: <p06230903bf73d971621f@[192.168.183.2]>
	<2ED8067B-9E94-4391-841D-789860F6B0C8@danshafer.com>
	<F8983AE2-BFBD-4C33-8E64-36B0BD01AA9F@mac.com>
	<DDE59D78-A78D-4B73-B97A-984318EE47A6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <0552A5E9-59B6-435A-BFCE-045716C3CB7E@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 13, 2005, at 1:54 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
> * generally faster than Web apps
> * not dependent upon a reasonably fast Internet connection
> * not dependent on a server "out there somewhere" being up and  
> running and not overloaded
> * better looking with better user experiences (at least potentially)
> * easier to protect against unauthorized use
> * able to read and write data to and from the user's local drive  
> (which neither Laszlo nor AJAX can do, being confined in a security  
> sandbox)

Dan,

In your list I would elaborate a bit on your last point.  One major  
benefit of a web connected desktop app is the ability to have content  
installed on the computer.  With a web enabled app you can update  
that content when a web connection is available.

My company develops e-learning software that runs inside a Rev  
desktop app.  The full app (all media) can be installed from a CD-ROM  
or the app shell (no media) can be downloaded from the internet.  The  
application can then gradually install media as the user views  
content or receive updates to the elearning materials (database and  
media files) over the internet.  What clients love is that once the  
user disconnects from the web they can still use their learning  
materials.
We cater to the medical industry where internet connections are not  
always available in offices or out in the field so this is a must.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Oct 14 01:28:53 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 07:28:53 +0200
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <79FD6137-50FC-46B5-8CBD-7CF7C305C9AB@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <20051014045903.A5031824F39@mail.runrev.com>

On Behalf Of Dan Shafer
> 
> I agree 100%. Unless, of course, I'm the sole source.
> 
> Dan
> 
> On Oct 13, 2005, at 4:17 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:
> 
> > Back when I was doing hardware stuff, our one strict rule 
> was "never 
> > design a circuit with single-source parts". If your sole 
> supplier gets 
> > "stomped on by a dinosaur" you're SOL.
> >

 That's why I wrote TAOO...

it encapsulates your functionality in your own language modules regardless
of language. Since all functions are atomic, they are easy to port. Better
yet, since the "base" of taoo is just a base, replacing it usually doesn't
affect the libraries - or shouldn't too much!

TAOO is easy to work with in cooperative mode too (see modular programming
somewhere) and as far as functionalities, it's incremental and persistent.
So collaboration can really accelerate it's development and decuplate its
functionalities!

It ports right out to cgi-bin rev files too. It does ebooks like acrobat
(since before acrobat existed but not for printing - I don't like printing),
it does automation (with applescripts or vbs), in brief, it does LOTS!

And it's open source too (designed that way since before the word opensource
existed). Also had it's own xml tagging before xml existed (but it's not as
rich as xml/xsl, etc)...

It worked as php/mysql did since long ago, had relational lookups since long
ago too... Long ago = 10 years btw!!! Actually it was a CMS before CMS
(content management systems) existed! So im confident it's not more advanced
that lots of these ajax or phpnuke systems out there, it's far easier to
build and work with!

Other applets in TAOO include: db middleware interfacing, filebrowsing +
preview, auto-formating, global-search indexing/relational lookups, html
parsing, code translation, multi-language interfaces+spelling, ebook and
business application "part" templates (just copy paste and you got an index
with 'incremental search' for example), auto-typing, skins for windows, etc
etc etc... All of this in copy-paste groups of guis that work without or
little coding where you paste them!

You can still go with Wiki or other CMS tools, php+any sql, etc... in the
end you're still stuck into a browser with an ugly language to develop in
(although you do get threading ;(! Here you get 15 years of cummulative
refinements and scripts (1000s) libraries in the easiest RAD to work with.
Speaking of RADs, TAOO makes Rev about 10X or more faster and comes with
it's own script editor that really rocks since 6 years (currently being
refitted)!!! 

Will TAOO work on the web? Yes but I can't do both app and web APIs so im
concentrating on the rev platform first (where I use it the most). Is it
solid, bug free? Almost but it's because im still the only one interested in
working in such 'frameworks' it seems - Rev users' usage of Rev is probably
different than mine probably. But I do use it to manage a multi-TB storage
environment, backups, servers, users in a large multinational corporate
network like few will see in their lifetimes - It's HUGE - and rev+TAOO is
up to the task anytime!

I wish others would come in and help like "others on the web" do with
opensource projects like linux, php, php-nuke, wiki+wiki likes... but not
many have responded. So when these "threads" come by, it's usually time for
me to do more defensive PR on it since no one mentions the effort! But like
many other systems like it in Rev (freecard, etc...) - global interest is
futile... 

One day, I hope to complete the circle in TAOO and have it all work
seemlessly. So far, with my 2 hands, I've done a lot more than most CMS
systems out there have done - including wiki (without the data ;)! TAOO is
about 71MBs of scripts and data in some 200 stacks working together as
libraries of scripts, datas and GUIs! 

Is it different than php+sql? Yes, it adds a gui and language layer that's
"human" and far quicker to develop, more practical to use and usually faster
and far more richer for productivity!

Will the dinosaur kill it? No way - it didn't when the dino stomped on
hypercard! And I managed to develop it, or rather evolve it in a dinosaur
like HyperCard with its 32KB limit! ;) 

I still need to work on the documentation, web-updates, etc... - but I only
have 2 hands... So if "source-parts" are open-source, there's no single
source... But if no one tries to help, it's just as useless to talk about
this thread isn't it?

Latest features in TAOO include:
- a geometric interface management library (unbreakable)
- a multilanguage spell checker (it even does Klingon!)

Because of the constant beta-stage of TAOO I won't release it just yet -
except parts that do work... But those intersted can join in the team and
work on any features that interst you. 

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo - see our forum for the language keywords, the
downloads for the many examples and documentation.



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Oct 14 01:26:15 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:26:15 -0700
Subject: AXEL
In-Reply-To: <BF74B750.69%pastranadigital@gmail.com>
References: <BF74B750.69%pastranadigital@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1AF3DFBA-E18F-437F-A5E5-3913041BA5F6@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 14, 2005, at 1:16 AM, Benjamin Pastrana wrote:

> Does Revolution accepts AXEL files with interactivity??
>
> http://www.mindavenue.com/en/products/

Not directly.  But you can use the Axel QT component and you open the  
file using a player object.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Oct 14 01:33:11 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 07:33:11 +0200
Subject: cannot create or edit web notes for the dictionary
In-Reply-To: <BF747CBF.13600%dick.kriesel@mail.com>
Message-ID: <20051014050320.C51FB824F39@mail.runrev.com>

see bugzilla

http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=2857 

I think that should answer why it doesn't work anymore ;)

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Dick Kriesel
> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 6:06 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: cannot create or edit web notes for the dictionary
> 
> BugZilla 3185:
> 
> The  text style buttons produce error dialog boxes that 
> mention a locked script.
> 
> The "Upload web note" button leads to a dialog that says 
> "Upload complete"
> but the web note never appears in the dictionary entry.
> 
> The problem is not new in 2.6.1.  Long ago the buttons all worked.
> 
> -- Dick
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Fri Oct 14 01:57:46 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:57:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 25, Issue 38
In-Reply-To: <BF7479B3.61%pastranadigital@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510132256150.25219-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Benjamin,

Could you possibly have downloaded and installed some shareware font?  I
know I had this same problem after I downloaded "Ransome Note", a font in
which the letters look as if they've been cut from various newspapers,
magazines, etc., and IT started showing up in my properties palette...

Judy

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, Benjamin Pastrana wrote:

> I am getting a very Fancy Font in the properties palettes.
> How I can set it to verdana or arial font?
> Thanks



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Oct 14 02:04:19 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:04:19 -0700
Subject: Manipulate Stacks with Duplicate Names?
In-Reply-To: <BF749BAF.2DAC9%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <BF749873.22BA7%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Ken Ray  wrote:

>> I seem to recall reading on the list long ago that it was somehow possible
>> for multiple opened stacks to have duplicate IDs, and (because of this)
>> referencing stacks by ID wasn't reliable.  Is this actually the case or have
>> I spent years mistakenly avoiding referencing stacks by ID?
> 
> Coul you use the windowID? Theoretically they'd have to be in separate
> windows and that would require them to have unique windowIDs...

Good point.  But I think IDs would work fine too, since, if this is right,
no two stacks can have the same ID during the current session.  For my
purposes I only care about referencing stacks during the current runtime
session, not across sessions.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Oct 14 02:23:47 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:23:47 -0700
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <434F3E66.4000308@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <p06230903bf73d971621f@[192.168.183.2]>
	<2ED8067B-9E94-4391-841D-789860F6B0C8@danshafer.com>
	<F8983AE2-BFBD-4C33-8E64-36B0BD01AA9F@mac.com>
	<DDE59D78-A78D-4B73-B97A-984318EE47A6@danshafer.com>
	<434EDE93.4040602@hyperactivesw.com>
	<56E3D408-D129-446F-B330-DE967078B597@danshafer.com>
	<434F3E66.4000308@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <2455821827.20051013232347@ahsoftware.net>

Jacque-

Thursday, October 13, 2005, 10:13:10 PM, you wrote:

> I use this:

> <http://flashblock.mozdev.org/>

> Works very well and leaves me in control.

*Very* interesting. Thanks for the pointer. And that way you won't
miss http://www.ninjai.com/

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Oct 14 02:24:09 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 01:24:09 -0500
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <DDE59D78-A78D-4B73-B97A-984318EE47A6@danshafer.com>
References: <p06230903bf73d971621f@[192.168.183.2]>	<2ED8067B-9E94-4391-841D-789860F6B0C8@danshafer.com>	<F8983AE2-BFBD-4C33-8E64-36B0BD01AA9F@mac.com>
	<DDE59D78-A78D-4B73-B97A-984318EE47A6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <434F4F09.50506@chipp.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:

> Now, lest you conclude that I'm ready to chuck Rev in favor of Laszlo  
> or AJAX, let me assure you that isn't in the cards, at least not yet.  
> Because standalone apps still have some big advantages and of course  
> Rev adds to those with its rapid development capability for cross- 
> platform software. Standalone apps are still:
> 
> * generally faster than Web apps
> * not dependent upon a reasonably fast Internet connection
> * not dependent on a server "out there somewhere" being up and  running 
> and not overloaded
> * better looking with better user experiences (at least potentially)
> * easier to protect against unauthorized use
> * able to read and write data to and from the user's local drive  (which 
> neither Laszlo nor AJAX can do, being confined in a security  sandbox)

Dan and I have been going around on this for awhile now privately. 
Frankly, I'm not a real big AJAX fan. In fact, I think it's not much 
more than the current flavor of the month.

A couple more bullet points to add to your list:

1) How many companies would seriously consider using AJAX (or Rev for 
that matter) for a large-scale revenue producing project? Not startups, 
mind you, but companies who really need apps that perform...like Adobe.

2) And this one really gets me. It's bad enough to have to modify your 
code every operating system update, but with AJAX and LASLO, you now 
have to provide maintenance on every browser version update (Firefox, 
IE, Safari, Konqueror, Opera, PDA browsers(?)) as well as every Flash 
plugin update. Not to mention you're at the total mercy of the creators 
of those products as well as all the standards committees who are 
'pushing for nextgen' type stuff. So, if Macromedia thinks Flash is too 
difficult to program and change their scripting paradigm for Flash 
(they've done it 3 times before!)-- your hosed. Or, MS decides to no 
longer play nice with CSS standards groups because they don't want to 
lose any more market share (heck they do this already with the .doc 
format) and purposefully make their browser incompatible-- again you're 
hosed.

3) Ever try debugging AJAX apps? Whew!!! From what I know, there are 
very few decent debuggers for Javascript and the XML doc object common 
in browsers these days.

Just a few of the many reasons I don't really see the 'browser based 
apps' ever really competing.

-Chipp


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Fri Oct 14 02:40:43 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:40:43 +0200
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <434F4F09.50506@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <OFFBF4E2C3.328B5F0A-ONC125709A.00245705-C125709A.00246E3E@deutsche-boerse.com>

Chipp, 

I agree but it's still a good idea to be able to play with apps the way 
CMS or ajax or web based plugins do!

If this kind of power is built in your stacks, in the long run, you're the 
clear winner - assuming 
you get the same amount of features + the flex of Rev... At least that's 
how i experience it across my work
at home and my scripting's result at work... Both are interchangeble, work 
on any data types and the
GUIs are just there wherever i go... 

And i proudly cover any of the points Dan mentioned!

cheers
Xavier 


use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 14/10/2005 08:24:09:

> Dan Shafer wrote:
> 
> > Now, lest you conclude that I'm ready to chuck Rev in favor of Laszlo 
> > or AJAX, let me assure you that isn't in the cards, at least not yet. 
> > Because standalone apps still have some big advantages and of course 
> > Rev adds to those with its rapid development capability for cross- 
> > platform software. Standalone apps are still:
> > 
> > * generally faster than Web apps
> > * not dependent upon a reasonably fast Internet connection
> > * not dependent on a server "out there somewhere" being up and running 

> > and not overloaded
> > * better looking with better user experiences (at least potentially)
> > * easier to protect against unauthorized use
> > * able to read and write data to and from the user's local drive 
(which 
> > neither Laszlo nor AJAX can do, being confined in a security  sandbox)
> 
> Dan and I have been going around on this for awhile now privately. 
> Frankly, I'm not a real big AJAX fan. In fact, I think it's not much 
> more than the current flavor of the month.
> 
> A couple more bullet points to add to your list:
> 
> 1) How many companies would seriously consider using AJAX (or Rev for 
> that matter) for a large-scale revenue producing project? Not startups, 
> mind you, but companies who really need apps that perform...like Adobe.
> 
> 2) And this one really gets me. It's bad enough to have to modify your 
> code every operating system update, but with AJAX and LASLO, you now 
> have to provide maintenance on every browser version update (Firefox, 
> IE, Safari, Konqueror, Opera, PDA browsers(?)) as well as every Flash 
> plugin update. Not to mention you're at the total mercy of the creators 
> of those products as well as all the standards committees who are 
> 'pushing for nextgen' type stuff. So, if Macromedia thinks Flash is too 
> difficult to program and change their scripting paradigm for Flash 
> (they've done it 3 times before!)-- your hosed. Or, MS decides to no 
> longer play nice with CSS standards groups because they don't want to 
> lose any more market share (heck they do this already with the .doc 
> format) and purposefully make their browser incompatible-- again you're 
> hosed.
> 
> 3) Ever try debugging AJAX apps? Whew!!! From what I know, there are 
> very few decent debuggers for Javascript and the XML doc object common 
> in browsers these days.
> 
> Just a few of the many reasons I don't really see the 'browser based 
> apps' ever really competing.
> 
> -Chipp
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
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any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
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From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Oct 14 03:07:47 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 02:07:47 -0500
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <434F4F09.50506@chipp.com>
References: <p06230903bf73d971621f@[192.168.183.2]>	<2ED8067B-9E94-4391-841D-789860F6B0C8@danshafer.com>	<F8983AE2-BFBD-4C33-8E64-36B0BD01AA9F@mac.com>	<DDE59D78-A78D-4B73-B97A-984318EE47A6@danshafer.com>
	<434F4F09.50506@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <434F5943.8090307@chipp.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:

> Dan and I have been going around on this for awhile now privately. 
> Frankly, I'm not a real big AJAX fan. In fact, I think it's not much 
> more than the current flavor of the month.
> 

Wow, that sounds a bit harsh:-) ! There are a few AJAX apps which seem 
pretty cool. I in particular like WRITELY (www.writely.com) and of 
course GMAIL.

There, better.

-C


From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Oct 14 03:16:42 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 00:16:42 -0700
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <0552A5E9-59B6-435A-BFCE-045716C3CB7E@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <p06230903bf73d971621f@[192.168.183.2]>
	<2ED8067B-9E94-4391-841D-789860F6B0C8@danshafer.com>
	<F8983AE2-BFBD-4C33-8E64-36B0BD01AA9F@mac.com>
	<DDE59D78-A78D-4B73-B97A-984318EE47A6@danshafer.com>
	<0552A5E9-59B6-435A-BFCE-045716C3CB7E@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <CEEC961A-0594-4DEB-9670-CE5240E86468@danshafer.com>

Yeah, good additional points, Trevor.

Dan

On Oct 13, 2005, at 10:22 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> On Oct 13, 2005, at 1:54 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>>
>> * generally faster than Web apps
>> * not dependent upon a reasonably fast Internet connection
>> * not dependent on a server "out there somewhere" being up and  
>> running and not overloaded
>> * better looking with better user experiences (at least potentially)
>> * easier to protect against unauthorized use
>> * able to read and write data to and from the user's local drive  
>> (which neither Laszlo nor AJAX can do, being confined in a  
>> security sandbox)
>>
>
> Dan,
>
> In your list I would elaborate a bit on your last point.  One major  
> benefit of a web connected desktop app is the ability to have  
> content installed on the computer.  With a web enabled app you can  
> update that content when a web connection is available.
>
> My company develops e-learning software that runs inside a Rev  
> desktop app.  The full app (all media) can be installed from a CD- 
> ROM or the app shell (no media) can be downloaded from the  
> internet.  The application can then gradually install media as the  
> user views content or receive updates to the elearning materials  
> (database and media files) over the internet.  What clients love is  
> that once the user disconnects from the web they can still use  
> their learning materials.
> We cater to the medical industry where internet connections are not  
> always available in offices or out in the field so this is a must.
>
>
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> Blue Mango Multimedia
> trevor at mangomultimedia.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Fri Oct 14 03:21:01 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:21:01 +0200
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO
In-Reply-To: <434F4F09.50506@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <OF35B56E59.B560395E-ONC125709A.00264755-C125709A.00281EC5@deutsche-boerse.com>

The only difference i see between Ajax and TAOO is that Ajax is loaded 
from the web whereas TAOO is running on the disk. Not that TAOO can't be
downloaded, updated online (which is not done yet)... 

So what reproachs there are ni Ajax, Rev makes up for it. I pull that off
the link and info i saw in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX.

What is interesting is how Ajax is ported across different languages like
TAOO! i just wished i knew how to get people intersted in collaborating in
this open source manner and project because so far that seems nearly 
impossible in this rev market... 

Did Linus write the help first or the code for linux before people started 

collaborating with him? Did people ask him "what is it for?"

Maybe this is a taste of what's to come...

http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/10/12/238253&tid=185&tid=218

But like ajax, if no one helps, rev is not going anywhere fast imoho in 
this
realm of opensource collaboration or web apps - we all do our thing in our
corner and each does his best (which has been worthy of praise) but still
long term, i dont see it happening in rev...

cheers
Xavier - the ugly duck


-----------------------------------------
Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

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legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
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From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Oct 14 03:55:06 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 00:55:06 -0700
Subject: Limited MPEG4 in Rev?
Message-ID: <BF74B26A.22BB5%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Just for kicks, I tried purchasing a TV show from Apple's current iTunes
offerings.  The m4v file plays fine in QT (requires 7.0.3) but attempting to
play the file within Rev 2.6.5 results in "could not open movie file".  If
the player object relies on whatever version of QT is installed, shouldn't
this work?

Playing a protected m4p music file with a player works fine, so I don't
think the copy protection is the issue (but who knows).

Any ideas?

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From tjframe at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 04:28:01 2005
From: tjframe at gmail.com (TJ Frame)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 01:28:01 -0700
Subject: cWinCursor broke in 2.6.1?
In-Reply-To: <20051014040543.8B4D2824FD6@mail.runrev.com>
References: <7348a9e80510131430n4af00eafl24e845553653f662@mail.gmail.com>
	<20051014040543.8B4D2824FD6@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <7348a9e80510140128w18e5c8a6i93c821614c6197bf@mail.gmail.com>

Xavier,
  The bugzilla description you filed says :
 >>>The cursor's hotpoint if far left off the cursor which makes the drag
operation really awkward.
 but I think we are talking about different things.
 In getting an error on this line of code: set cursor to the cWinCursor of
me
 the script error reads: "cursor: can't find image"
 as a simple test just create a new stack, open the object library, and
place a "win style stack resizer" button. As soon as you mousenter it tries
to find that cursor number but cant, and thus errors out.
 - TJ
 On 10/13/05, MisterX <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:
>
> Hi TJ
>
> I filed a bugzilla on it yesterday
>
> http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3182
>
> I don't remember the bugzilla for color cursors but it should have a
> million
> votes on it by now ;)
>
> cheers
> Xavier
> http://monsieurx.com
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of TJ Frame
> > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:31 PM
> > To: How to use Revolution
> > Subject: cWinCursor broke in 2.6.1?
> >
> > Is it just me or is the "Win Style Stack Resizer" button
> > broken now in 2.6.1?
> > Seems the custom number for that cursor is now wrong And
> > while we are on the subject, does anyone have a list of other
> > system cursor numbers for Windows? I bet there are more but I
> > cant seem to locate a lost of them.
> > It would be nice if Rev either had a larger number of built
> > in-cursors or it came with a "cursor" stack of lots of custom
> > cursor images in the proper format that we can include if we want.
> > - TJ
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
> > your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Fri Oct 14 04:52:41 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:52:41 +0200
Subject: cWinCursor broke in 2.6.1?
In-Reply-To: <7348a9e80510140128w18e5c8a6i93c821614c6197bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OF842FF97E.090271DE-ONC125709A.002F8D26-C125709A.00308309@deutsche-boerse.com>

OUCH!

i tested it and it's worse than that! I can't even edit the script where 
the error is!!!!
I cant close the script window... Rev is not responding to ignore error...

Time to force quit rev!

Time to force quit Rev now...

A bit more testing: if you dont close the object library, you can't edit 
the script of the object.
If you close it, edit the script of the the windows resizer button, the 
scritp editor seems broken - can't 
resize it!

And that's not all... revonline doesn't work - proxy is set correctly - 
but since it's revonline is password 
protected i can't even report that either!!! 

OUCH!!!!

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 14/10/2005 10:28:01:

> Xavier,
>   The bugzilla description you filed says :
>  >>>The cursor's hotpoint if far left off the cursor which makes the 
drag
> operation really awkward.
>  but I think we are talking about different things.
>  In getting an error on this line of code: set cursor to the cWinCursor 
of
> me
>  the script error reads: "cursor: can't find image"
>  as a simple test just create a new stack, open the object library, and
> place a "win style stack resizer" button. As soon as you mousenter it 
tries
> to find that cursor number but cant, and thus errors out.
>  - TJ
>  On 10/13/05, MisterX <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:
> >
> > Hi TJ
> >
> > I filed a bugzilla on it yesterday
> >
> > http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3182
> >
> > I don't remember the bugzilla for color cursors but it should have a
> > million
> > votes on it by now ;)
> >
> > cheers
> > Xavier
> > http://monsieurx.com
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> > > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of TJ 
Frame
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:31 PM
> > > To: How to use Revolution
> > > Subject: cWinCursor broke in 2.6.1?
> > >
> > > Is it just me or is the "Win Style Stack Resizer" button
> > > broken now in 2.6.1?
> > > Seems the custom number for that cursor is now wrong And
> > > while we are on the subject, does anyone have a list of other
> > > system cursor numbers for Windows? I bet there are more but I
> > > cant seem to locate a lost of them.
> > > It would be nice if Rev either had a larger number of built
> > > in-cursors or it came with a "cursor" stack of lots of custom
> > > cursor images in the proper format that we can include if we want.
> > > - TJ
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-revolution mailing list
> > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
> > > your subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



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Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
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END OF DISCLAIMER


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Fri Oct 14 04:55:11 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:55:11 +0200
Subject: cWinCursor broke in 2.6.1?
In-Reply-To: <7348a9e80510140128w18e5c8a6i93c821614c6197bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OF79231557.DF4C26CD-ONC125709A.0030E338-C125709A.0030BDBC@deutsche-boerse.com>

if you go to the msg and type
cWinCursor

rev puts 

put the cWinCursor of the selectedObject
which results in 200308

but if you put 

put there is an image id 200308
= false!!!


---------------------=---------------------
Xavier Bury

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 14/10/2005 10:28:01:

> Xavier,
>   The bugzilla description you filed says :
>  >>>The cursor's hotpoint if far left off the cursor which makes the 
drag
> operation really awkward.
>  but I think we are talking about different things.
>  In getting an error on this line of code: set cursor to the cWinCursor 
of
> me
>  the script error reads: "cursor: can't find image"
>  as a simple test just create a new stack, open the object library, and
> place a "win style stack resizer" button. As soon as you mousenter it 
tries
> to find that cursor number but cant, and thus errors out.
>  - TJ
>  On 10/13/05, MisterX <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:
> >
> > Hi TJ
> >
> > I filed a bugzilla on it yesterday
> >
> > http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3182
> >
> > I don't remember the bugzilla for color cursors but it should have a
> > million
> > votes on it by now ;)
> >
> > cheers
> > Xavier
> > http://monsieurx.com
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> > > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of TJ 
Frame
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:31 PM
> > > To: How to use Revolution
> > > Subject: cWinCursor broke in 2.6.1?
> > >
> > > Is it just me or is the "Win Style Stack Resizer" button
> > > broken now in 2.6.1?
> > > Seems the custom number for that cursor is now wrong And
> > > while we are on the subject, does anyone have a list of other
> > > system cursor numbers for Windows? I bet there are more but I
> > > cant seem to locate a lost of them.
> > > It would be nice if Rev either had a larger number of built
> > > in-cursors or it came with a "cursor" stack of lots of custom
> > > cursor images in the proper format that we can include if we want.
> > > - TJ
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-revolution mailing list
> > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
> > > your subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
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From tjframe at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 05:02:16 2005
From: tjframe at gmail.com (TJ Frame)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 02:02:16 -0700
Subject: cWinCursor broke in 2.6.1?
In-Reply-To: <OF79231557.DF4C26CD-ONC125709A.0030E338-C125709A.0030BDBC@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <7348a9e80510140128w18e5c8a6i93c821614c6197bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<OF79231557.DF4C26CD-ONC125709A.0030E338-C125709A.0030BDBC@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <7348a9e80510140202g4c3d6348r494c42d0d2aa3449@mail.gmail.com>

I was able to get around it by selecting "supress messages" from Development
menu.
 but yea.. it seems very broken

 On 10/14/05, xbury.cs at clearstream.com <xbury.cs at clearstream.com> wrote:
>
> if you go to the msg and type
> cWinCursor
>
> rev puts
>
> put the cWinCursor of the selectedObject
> which results in 200308
>
> but if you put
>
> put there is an image id 200308
> = false!!!
>
>
> ---------------------=---------------------
> Xavier Bury
>
> use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 14/10/2005 10:28:01:
>
> > Xavier,
> > The bugzilla description you filed says :
> > >>>The cursor's hotpoint if far left off the cursor which makes the
> drag
> > operation really awkward.
> > but I think we are talking about different things.
> > In getting an error on this line of code: set cursor to the cWinCursor
> of
> > me
> > the script error reads: "cursor: can't find image"
> > as a simple test just create a new stack, open the object library, and
> > place a "win style stack resizer" button. As soon as you mousenter it
> tries
> > to find that cursor number but cant, and thus errors out.
> > - TJ
> > On 10/13/05, MisterX <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi TJ
> > >
> > > I filed a bugzilla on it yesterday
> > >
> > > http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3182
> > >
> > > I don't remember the bugzilla for color cursors but it should have a
> > > million
> > > votes on it by now ;)
> > >
> > > cheers
> > > Xavier
> > > http://monsieurx.com
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> > > > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of TJ
> Frame
> > > > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:31 PM
> > > > To: How to use Revolution
> > > > Subject: cWinCursor broke in 2.6.1?
> > > >
> > > > Is it just me or is the "Win Style Stack Resizer" button
> > > > broken now in 2.6.1?
> > > > Seems the custom number for that cursor is now wrong And
> > > > while we are on the subject, does anyone have a list of other
> > > > system cursor numbers for Windows? I bet there are more but I
> > > > cant seem to locate a lost of them.
> > > > It would be nice if Rev either had a larger number of built
> > > > in-cursors or it came with a "cursor" stack of lots of custom
> > > > cursor images in the proper format that we can include if we want.
> > > > - TJ
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > use-revolution mailing list
> > > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
> > > > your subscription preferences:
> > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-revolution mailing list
> > > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
>
> IMPORTANT MESSAGE
>
> Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
> International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
> this message.
>
> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
> legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
> not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
> any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
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From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct 14 05:27:21 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 02:27:21 -0700
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <DDE59D78-A78D-4B73-B97A-984318EE47A6@danshafer.com>
References: <p06230903bf73d971621f@[192.168.183.2]>	<2ED8067B-9E94-4391-841D-789860F6B0C8@danshafer.com>	<F8983AE2-BFBD-4C33-8E64-36B0BD01AA9F@mac.com>
	<DDE59D78-A78D-4B73-B97A-984318EE47A6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <434F79F9.3010807@fourthworld.com>

For myself, I don't see this as a "vs" as much as an "also".

When I need to put an app inside of a browser window, I use whatever the 
project requires to do that, and old-school tech like AJAX often gets 
the job done well.

But for everything that lives outside of a browser window, for me it's 
all Rev, all the time.


As for the "sole source" question, in practical terms I wonder if 
language choice is really so big a factor.

Replacing a critical team member is always expensive to any substantial 
project, regardless of the language it's written in.  Code is 
disposable, replaceable, and much of it probably should be every few 
major versions.  But knowledge and rapport -- that's where the 
investment is, and that's always going to be expensive to replace.

In this industry it's really easy to fall into a gadget-centric view, 
focusing on compilers, languages, tools, and such.  But in the big 
picture, maybe the computer industry isn't that much different from any 
other.  The business of business is driven by human creativity.

If one's code is well structured and well factored, the underlying logic 
can almost always be ported to another language profitably.  Ask Chipp 
about the BASIC project he recently rewrote in Rev -- as I understand it 
they saved quite a bit making that upgrade, even though it meant also 
rewriting the app from the ground up.

For going the other way, Transcript is readable enough to almost any 
programmer.  And with Rev's growing base, there are plenty of 
consultants available who can help orient a rewrite team if needed.

So with all that in mind, maybe the real business question here is:  Is 
it worth ditching immediate ROI benefits for the possibility of maybe 
saving some time at a potential future date if a worst-case scenario 
happens?

All business decisions carry risk.  I'm not sure how many successful 
businesses got where they are by raising current costs in an attempt to 
approach zero risk for the smaller expenses associated with possible 
future misfortune.

Or to look at it another way:

If the client's goal is to migrate to commodity languages to use 
commodity labor, why wait until the programmer's dead?  If the work is 
the sort that can be commoditized, the client could do well to avoid 
paying US costs altogether and hire someone overseas today.

The languages we bring to the table can always be replaced.  But can our 
experience/talents/creativity?

That's only true if all we bring to the table is merely functional code 
that does only what was asked for.

Clement Mok doesn't sell pixels, nor Frank Gehry ink. :)

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Oct 14 06:56:50 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 11:56:50 +0100
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO
In-Reply-To: <OF35B56E59.B560395E-ONC125709A.00264755-C125709A.00281EC5@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OF35B56E59.B560395E-ONC125709A.00264755-C125709A.00281EC5@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <434F8EF2.6000908@tweedly.net>

xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:

>Did Linus write the help first or the code for linux before people started 
>
>collaborating with him? Did people ask him "what is it for?"
>
>  
>
No, first thing he had was an "elevator pitch". In his case, he didn't 
need to create it specifically as an elevator pitch - but what he had 
was a simple, 30-50 second description of what he was doing that was 
understandable to almost any potential collaborator.

"I'm doing an open-source, freely licensed version of Unix - it will be 
library and API compatible so all your code, shell scripts and general 
usage will work on it."

TAOO doesn't, as far as I know, have that. I've not managed to get a 
good "feel" for what TAOO does, or what it would be like to use, or how 
it would change the everyday tasks to be done in developing an app using 
TAOO. And I can't go download something and try it out .... which you 
could do with Linux a long time before it was really "done".

I suspect that's largely because of the second reason - Linux was an 
incremental project, that most people became familiar with somewhat 
early on. TAOO has been going for years, so it's already a big, 
multi-faceted, multi-tentacled "thing" - and so is much harder to 
describe. It's difficult (if not impossible) for you to extract a 
"bite-sized chunk" of it to complete (i.e. get out of beta, release it, 
maybe even partly document it and thereby attract co-developers and 
users), because doing so would lose one of its primary current benefits 
to you, namely its completeness.

 I wish I could tell you how to resolve that problem, but I'm afraid I 
can't ....


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/2005



From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Fri Oct 14 07:55:16 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:55:16 +0200
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO
In-Reply-To: <434F8EF2.6000908@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <OF38D9145F.BD4636A4-ONC125709A.004046AE-C125709A.00413A42@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Alex

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 14/10/2005 12:56:50:

> xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:
> 
> >Did Linus write the help first or the code for linux before people 
started 
> >
> >collaborating with him? Did people ask him "what is it for?"
> >
> > 
> >
> No, first thing he had was an "elevator pitch". In his case, he didn't 
> need to create it specifically as an elevator pitch - but what he had 
> was a simple, 30-50 second description of what he was doing that was 
> understandable to almost any potential collaborator.
>
> "I'm doing an open-source, freely licensed version of Unix - it will be 
> library and API compatible so all your code, shell scripts and general 
> usage will work on it."
> 
> TAOO doesn't, as far as I know, have that. 

That's the first line on my website!!! 

http://monsieurx.com/TAOO also has that as front story...

and there's the documentation...

> I've not managed to get a 
> good "feel" for what TAOO does, or what it would be like to use, or how 
> it would change the everyday tasks to be done in developing an app using 

> TAOO. And I can't go download something and try it out .... which you 
> could do with Linux a long time before it was really "done".

strange i did put out more than one example made with TAOO's parts.
Tried to describe it in few words... 

When i made a documentation stack - nobody found it useful. I said at one 
point that it was an
example - and people still didn't see it... I can't tell you how lost i am 
at that point!

Nor did i ever hear you ask "how it should feel"...

> I suspect that's largely because of the second reason - Linux was an 
> incremental project, that most people became familiar with somewhat 
> early on. TAOO has been going for years, so it's already a big, 
> multi-faceted, multi-tentacled "thing" - and so is much harder to 
> describe. It's difficult (if not impossible) for you to extract a 
> "bite-sized chunk" of it to complete (i.e. get out of beta, release it, 
> maybe even partly document it and thereby attract co-developers and 
> users), because doing so would lose one of its primary current benefits 
> to you, namely its completeness.

And the few examples available in Monsieurx's downloads are "useful" yet 
independent tools
of the whole (they get better with the rest but they work without the 
other tentacles! 

Yet hardly anyone comments or does send feedback... So i dont update to 
get more rants and
less comments - granted but still... 

How should it feel? Faster, more featured - but absolutely non-different! 
GUI-regardless ;)

Thanks for your comments...

Something more about ajax that's interesting business-wise...
http://computerbusinessreview.com/article_news.asp?guid=EB771D64-F33F-4504-A6DB-7417D22CB379

 
>  I wish I could tell you how to resolve that problem, but I'm afraid I 
> can't ....

You have so far! Keep trying... What i really dont get is why some lame
projects get praise while hard-work projects get none...

cheers
Xavier


-----------------------------------------
Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

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From supote.songthammawat at netgalileo.com  Thu Oct 13 00:29:59 2005
From: supote.songthammawat at netgalileo.com (Supote Songthammawat)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:29:59 +0700
Subject: problem about insert
Message-ID: <434DE2C7.9070204@netgalileo.com>

Dear Sir,

       I have  some problem about insert data by sql into database. Why 
I can't not to insert into database? When I press button save  it will 
occur :

1 (Create PersonSysID) : u just add [Sybase][ODBC Driver][Adaptive 
Server Enterprise] The name "khunnawut" is illegal in this context. Only 
constant, constant expressions, or variables allowed here. Column names 
are illegal. record into DB

My script below of save button below:

put revDataFromQuery (,return, tID, "SELECT MAX(personSysID) FROM 
PERSON_TABLE") into tNewEnPersonSysIds
 
 answer tNewEnPersonSysIds
 
 if tNewEnPersonSysIds is empty then
   put 1 into tNewEnPersonSysIds
 else
   put tNewEnPersonSysIds + 1 into tNewEnPersonSysIds
 end if
 
 answer tNewEnPersonSysIds
 
 put tNewEnPersonSysIds into tNewPersonSysIds
 put fld "FirstName" into tFirstName
 put fld "LastName" into tLastName
 put fld "MiddleName" into tMiddleName
 put text of fld "DateofBirth" into tDateofBirth
 put 1 into tPersonTitleCode
 put the hilitedButtonName of group "Identification" into tGenderCode
 put 1 into tDeceasedIndicator
 put 1 into tOrganDonorIndicator
 put 1 into tMultipleBirthIndicator
 
 put tNewPersonSysIds, tFirstName, tLastName, tMiddleName, tDateofBirth, 
tPersonTitleCode, \
     tGenderCode, tDeceasedIndicator, tOrganDonorIndicator, 
tMultipleBirthIndicator into tPersonEntTbl

 put "INSERT INTO PERSON_TABLE(personSysID, firstName, lastName, " \
     &&  "middleName, dateOfBirth, personTitleCode, genderCode, 
deceasedIndicator, " \
     && "organDonorIndicator, multipleBirthIndicator) VALUES 
("&tPersonEntTbl&")" into tSql

 revExecuteSQL tID, tSql

 answer "1 (Create PersonSysID) : u just add "&the result&" record into DB"



I think I must convert to unidecode before insert , correct?
Please suggest me to solve this problem. Thank you very much.
Urgently!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Best Regards,
Supote



From alain.gonfalone at wanadoo.fr  Thu Oct 13 03:39:10 2005
From: alain.gonfalone at wanadoo.fr (Alain Gonfalone)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:39:10 +0200
Subject: Revolution back to HyperCard
Message-ID: <BF73DBBE.1E4F%alain.gonfalone@wanadoo.fr>

How does the find function works? Does it only list the cards where the word
searched is found?
Thank you very much in advance for your cooperation.





From alex at harryscollar.com  Fri Oct 14 08:47:54 2005
From: alex at harryscollar.com (Alex Shaw)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 22:47:54 +1000
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <20051014082630.23C29825093@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051014082630.23C29825093@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <434FA8FA.8070700@harryscollar.com>

hi

personally i've pushed mc/rev to the limits (& beyond) for some of my 
projects the last few years

i've been investigating a few of these issues & various other 
technologies (on the "market") over the last few weeks & usually in my 
head i'm thinking... well, it can be done in rev.. ~not~ that rev is 
perfect.. yet ;)

the most consistent & important issue on my plate is the "interface".. 
it has to work the way i want it to, doesn't matter the backend (which, 
again an area rev is maturing). the point is, the interface is where the 
action is

someone made a point about debugging ajax.. mainly i think its because 
you're dealing with a mixed bag of tricks to make your interface work.. 
the most popular combo is your typical opensource combo of linux, 
apache, php etc but down under here in oz microsoft is top of the pop 
chart, ipods excluded :)

but even in the cgi area, rev is improving.. it still seems to need 
libraries which i've discovered are not on all public web-hosting 
services.. personally, i really dislike doing cgi stuff and would much 
rather do it in transcript.. on that subject..

a quick question for the runrev crew..

* Is it possible to get/order custom-compiled versions of rev? (eg. 
Stripped down super efficient cgi engine without ~any~ gui code but 
still database functional)

i currently develop & test on 3 (mac,pc,linux) platforms & as a one-man 
team i prefer rev's unified approach to development

flash is pretty good too.. my update8 is still on order :(

one project i completed last year was actually a flash-rev combo which 
worked well (would have been better if i had altbrowser at the time.. 
currently redeveloping my framework all in rev)

even a "toy" language like blitzmax is exciting because it offers 
arcade-quality possibilties in the interface department (in slick opengl 
3d etc) & is cross-platform, early days yet but possible to do 
server/cgi with & talk to sqlite .. but it's ultimately nostalgic & the 
forum participants are mainly a younger generation.

rev can't do that and it doesn't need to but i find the new version of 
rev quite stable & have been happily using it the last few days for a 
project, although i still get weird coloured syntax highlighting issues, 
more so that ye ol metacard :)

regards
alex

use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    3. Re: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps (Trevor DeVore)
>    4. RE: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps (MisterX)
>    9. Re: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps (Mark Wieder)
>   10. Re: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps (Chipp Walters)
>   11. Re: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
>   12. Re: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps (Chipp Walters)
>   13. Re: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps (Dan Shafer)
>   14. Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
> 


From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Fri Oct 14 08:42:18 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:42:18 +0200
Subject: Revolution back to HyperCard
In-Reply-To: <BF73DBBE.1E4F%alain.gonfalone@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <OF54119AF9.8472B5AC-ONC125709A.0045BAE4-C125709A.004588AF@deutsche-boerse.com>

What you describe there is the find stack.

The find command simply takes you directly to the card that contains the 
information and hilites it with a rectangle...

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 13/10/2005 09:39:10:

> How does the find function works? Does it only list the cards where the 
word
> searched is found?
> Thank you very much in advance for your cooperation.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
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The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
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not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
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From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Fri Oct 14 09:22:21 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:22:21 +0200
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <434FA8FA.8070700@harryscollar.com>
Message-ID: <OFA376A671.81431E43-ONC125709A.0048F856-C125709A.00493349@deutsche-boerse.com>

> even a "toy" language like blitzmax is exciting because it offers 
> arcade-quality possibilties in the interface department (in slick opengl 

> 3d etc) & is cross-platform, early days yet but possible to do 
> server/cgi with & talk to sqlite .. but it's ultimately nostalgic & the 
> forum participants are mainly a younger generation.

Apparently Rev seems deaf to our pleading for an opengl extension or 
"real" graphics... Rev works great to animate up to 10 poligons but
that's it (on a big PC too...)... im sure they're working on it though...

> rev can't do that and it doesn't need to but i find the new version of 
> rev quite stable & have been happily using it the last few days for a 
> project, although i still get weird coloured syntax highlighting issues, 

> more so that ye ol metacard :)

Apparently Rev is hard of hearing on that since last year...
There's a few bugzillas on it too - I even proposed them a real text 
coloring engine that works great since 5 years or so when i rewrote the
MC script editor... but as usual, no one was much interested...

Since then someone managed to make another editor with similar features
which others did seem interested in. 

It's a really weird market, these revolutionaries! ;)

cheers
Xavier


-----------------------------------------
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Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
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From xbury.cs at clearstream.com  Fri Oct 14 10:01:53 2005
From: xbury.cs at clearstream.com (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:01:53 +0200
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <OFA376A671.81431E43-ONC125709A.0048F856-C125709A.00493349@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <OFC1978386.5978242B-ONC125709A.004CFA94-C125709A.004CD215@deutsche-boerse.com>

how great this ajax is! Previously i almost ranted on some stuff where
ajax was not "secure" and overid some stuff i set in Firefox...

I decided to keep my day positive... but it comes back!!!

http://it.slashdot.org/it/05/10/14/126233.shtml?tid=172&tid=95&tid=220

cheers
Xavier


-----------------------------------------
Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From jonseymour at mac.com  Fri Oct 14 10:18:44 2005
From: jonseymour at mac.com (Jon Seymour)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:18:44 -0500
Subject: "Andre's all-Rev Web server"
In-Reply-To: <20051014082630.23C29825093@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051014082630.23C29825093@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <402A2EA7-45D6-4B76-9878-7D37FE95D82C@mac.com>

Hi,

Thanks to all for such an informative list. Someone mentioned  
"Andre's all-Rev Web server"...sounds fascinating and of interest to  
me...will someone point me in the right direction for more on this?

With appreciation,

Jon

PS: as a followup to a previous issue, if one assigns icons into  
buttons somewhere in the stack (for example, on a card no one sees),  
then (and only then) they will appear when summoned to replace a  
character in a field with "set the imagesource" on Windows. Must have  
something to do with loading the images into memory.


From mqueen at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 10:30:22 2005
From: mqueen at gmail.com (Michael Queen)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:30:22 -0400
Subject: "Andre's all-Rev Web server"
In-Reply-To: <402A2EA7-45D6-4B76-9878-7D37FE95D82C@mac.com>
References: <20051014082630.23C29825093@mail.runrev.com>
	<402A2EA7-45D6-4B76-9878-7D37FE95D82C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <c595d08e0510140730ra5d7712o36352a1e7402ba43@mail.gmail.com>

>
> PLEASE TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST
>


From see3d at writeme.com  Fri Oct 14 11:10:53 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 11:10:53 -0400
Subject: "Andre's all-Rev Web server"
In-Reply-To: <c595d08e0510140730ra5d7712o36352a1e7402ba43@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20051014082630.23C29825093@mail.runrev.com>
	<402A2EA7-45D6-4B76-9878-7D37FE95D82C@mac.com>
	<c595d08e0510140730ra5d7712o36352a1e7402ba43@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C4BEF1E9-7B3C-4876-B48C-BEB8FD29B015@writeme.com>

Michael,

You have to take yourself off by clicking on the link at the bottom  
of this and each email.
You are only on this list because you signed up.

Dennis

On Oct 14, 2005, at 10:30 AM, Michael Queen wrote:

>>
>> PLEASE TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Fri Oct 14 11:49:25 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:49:25 -0700
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO
In-Reply-To: <OF35B56E59.B560395E-ONC125709A.00264755-C125709A.00281EC5@deutsche-boerse
	.com>
References: <OF35B56E59.B560395E-ONC125709A.00264755-C125709A.00281EC5@deutsche-boerse
	.com>
Message-ID: <p06230904bf7582b038ac@[192.168.1.101]>

>TAOO! i just wished i knew how to get people intersted in collaborating in
>this open source manner and project because so far that seems nearly
>impossible in this rev market...

???
Hmmmm... I have a folder full of 'open source' freely given code for 
Rev --  libraries and examples..... this doesn't count?



sqb
-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Oct 14 12:21:55 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:21:55 +0200
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO
In-Reply-To: <p06230904bf7582b038ac@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <20051014155201.46FC48248BE@mail.runrev.com>

> Hmmmm... I have a folder full of 'open source' freely given 
> code for Rev --  libraries and examples..... this doesn't count?

If you share and port them in into the "natural" taoo format sure,
hence also rev friendly, all is possible ;)

That's how it works. If you help improve it, TAOO helps you too...

share 1% and ,
get 99% for free... 

The trick? your 99% gets bigger each time! your 1% gets smaller!
It's like a wiki thing... 

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Stephen Barncard
> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 5:49 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO
> 
> >TAOO! i just wished i knew how to get people intersted in 
> collaborating 
> >in this open source manner and project because so far that 
> seems nearly 
> >impossible in this rev market...
> 
> ???
> Hmmmm... I have a folder full of 'open source' freely given 
> code for Rev --  libraries and examples..... this doesn't count?
> 
> 
> 
> sqb
> -- 
> stephen barncard
> s a n  f r a n c i s c o
> - - -  - - - - - - - - -
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Oct 14 12:26:43 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:26:43 -0300
Subject: "Andre's all-Rev Web server"
In-Reply-To: <402A2EA7-45D6-4B76-9878-7D37FE95D82C@mac.com>
References: <20051014082630.23C29825093@mail.runrev.com>
	<402A2EA7-45D6-4B76-9878-7D37FE95D82C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <C6349321-E37F-4BAA-B968-F4AF2974E4C5@mac.com>


On Oct 14, 2005, at 11:18 AM, Jon Seymour wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Thanks to all for such an informative list. Someone mentioned  
> "Andre's all-Rev Web server"...sounds fascinating and of interest  
> to me...will someone point me in the right direction for more on this?
>
> With appreciation,
>
> Jon

Jon,

can I point you to a direction! I can!!!! I have tons of inside  
information on Andre web-server! :-D

I am in the process of rebuilding my homepage, it is very deprecated  
right now, there you'll be able to download the latest webserver,  
I've built maybe four completly different webservers in rev, I'll put  
them all available (including the one I think is the best) with  
comments and stuff, just allow me to put things up. If you're needing  
it right now, send me an email off list and I'll send you the stacks  
as attachemnts.

Cheers
andre



>
> PS: as a followup to a previous issue, if one assigns icons into  
> buttons somewhere in the stack (for example, on a card no one  
> sees), then (and only then) they will appear when summoned to  
> replace a character in a field with "set the imagesource" on  
> Windows. Must have something to do with loading the images into  
> memory.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Oct 14 12:32:26 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:32:26 -0700
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO [LONG]
In-Reply-To: <OF38D9145F.BD4636A4-ONC125709A.004046AE-C125709A.00413A42@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OF38D9145F.BD4636A4-ONC125709A.004046AE-C125709A.00413A42@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <B14BFF6B-5531-4F51-ACA1-395C565D88D4@danshafer.com>

Xavier.....

I know you're frustrated. I have been excited about TAOO in Rev ever  
since you first mentioned it, as you know. I have downloaded all the  
pieces you've sent me. I've looked at them. I've cut them open and  
probed their internals. I've read their code where I could. I've  
edited docs where I could. You and I have exchanged dozens of emails  
about it.

And I still don't completely get it.

Alex Tweedly said much the same thing. Your response was to point us  
to the first line on your site as the "elevator pitch" for TAOO. Do  
you mean this line?

"Modular Object Network Semantical Infeered Ergonomic User-friendly  
Rapid Xtreme Development Or Trans-Contextual Organization Management.  
In other words:

The Art Of Objects!"

If so, I can tell you that communicates nothing meaningful, at least  
to me. It's a loosely coupled set of buzzwords.

COnsiderably farther down on your site -- in a location many people  
probably never get to because they don't understand that top-level  
message -- you have this: "The Art Of Objects is an environment to  
navigate, find and edit information in the most flexible and reusable  
way and for any computer program or object oriented application on  
any platform." SO it doesn't sound like an OO framework for app  
development. Rather, it sounds like an information-navigation utility  
that would be quite suitable if one were building apps whose primary  
raison d'etre were the navigation of large, complex, intertwingled  
information spaces. And that's the impression I now have of TAOO. But  
that's not what I thought you were talking about originally. And so  
things are very confusing even for someone, like me, who has invested  
dozens of hours in trying hard to grasp what you are doing.

I've asked you what kinds of apps TAOO is NOW suited to develop. What  
I THINK I hear in response is that it's good at managing information  
structures. So if I have an app that consists primarily of  
information structures, TAOO might be a great tool. I don't have many  
such applications. My apps are interactive experiences for the user,  
with little data storage associated with them. At least the ones I'm  
making these days. My sense, then, is that TAOO is (at least yet) not  
a general-purpose object-oriented framework for the construction of  
any kind of application I want to build. ANd if it is, how to get  
started and what to do as I progress is just not clear.

So in answer to your wondering why "some lame projects get praise  
while hard-work projects get none," it's about the buzz, about the  
marketing, about the promotion. And that in turn requires two things:  
Passion (which you clearly have) and really clear focus on what the  
project is and what problem(s) it's intended to solve (which I think  
you still struggle with, perhgaps, as Alex suggested, because it's  
just so large and complex). But it's not even all that easy to get to  
the basic stuff about TAOO on your site, Xavier.

If TAOO were a general-purpose object framework with a clearly  
factored library of built-in objects with which one could begin to  
construct any Rev application -- or even a major subset of Rev apps  
-- and if it had a LOT of examples built that could be easily  
disassembled to see how the TAOO componentry made them possible or  
easier to create, I think it could in fact catch on.

WHere, for example, do your tool palettes fit in to TAOO? Were they  
built using TAOO? They don't look like information space navigators.  
IF they were built in TAOO, what specific aspects of TAOO made them  
faster or easier to build than if I'd done them in pure Rev? Where's  
the class library underneath them? If you want them to be examples of  
the power of TAOO, you have to expose that power in a way that those  
of us who are Rev coders with an object orientation can understand.  
So far, you haven't been able to do that.

There is a vague sense of excitement about what you offer here. Your  
passion is obvious. That you've developed this architecture across  
many languages over the years is impressive. But at the end of the  
day, a busy programmer cannot easily figure out what this beast is  
and how it would help him or her develop powerful applications with  
greater facility.

On Oct 14, 2005, at 4:55 AM, xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:


> What i really dont get is why some lame
> projects get praise while hard-work projects get none...
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html





From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Oct 14 12:35:05 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:35:05 -0700
Subject: Limited MPEG4 in Rev?
In-Reply-To: <BF74B26A.22BB5%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF74B26A.22BB5%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <49058309-6C4D-476D-A387-ECCAE815B395@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 14, 2005, at 12:55 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Just for kicks, I tried purchasing a TV show from Apple's current  
> iTunes
> offerings.  The m4v file plays fine in QT (requires 7.0.3) but  
> attempting to
> play the file within Rev 2.6.5 results in "could not open movie  
> file".  If
> the player object relies on whatever version of QT is installed,  
> shouldn't
> this work?

It should.  Intriguing that it doesn't.

> Playing a protected m4p music file with a player works fine, so I  
> don't
> think the copy protection is the issue (but who knows).
>
> Any ideas?

So you can open this m4v in QuickTime Player but not in Rev, right?   
Have you tried opening the file in any other apps that support  
QuickTime (Director, iShell, etc.)?


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Fri Oct 14 13:01:05 2005
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:01:05 -0400
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
Message-ID: <OFA8D9DA05.C39E0809-ON8525709A.005C2725@sealedair.com>

> Dan-
> 
> Thursday, October 13, 2005, 1:54:38 PM, you wrote:
> 
>> Another client for whom I've written three relatively large apps in
>> Rev has been advised by his new CEO to require me to rewrite them in
>> some more standard language or tool/environment. He may not listen to
>> the advice but he has raised the interesting question of what happens
>> if I (his language) "get stomped on by a dinosaur". Even though the
>> apps would keep running, of course, finding programmers to maintain
>> and extend them would be significantly more difficult than with, say,
>> Basic or Java or C++ (which I will never learn). Or, for that matter,
>> JavaScript/XML.
> 
> Back when I was doing hardware stuff, our one strict rule was "never
> design a circuit with single-source parts". If your sole supplier gets
> "stomped on by a dinosaur" you're SOL.
> 
> --
> -Mark Wieder
> mwieder at ahsoftware.net

Wouldn't it be great if Rev Developers had a registry of 
talent/capabilities? This could be provided to our clients along with 
their new software. Of course there would have to be a contractual clause 
stating that unless the original developer has been "stomped on by a 
dinosaur", then he/she should continue to provide support for the product. 
However it would provide the customer a kind of "insurance" in the event 
that a stomping should occur. I would think the client would be more open 
to nonstandard tools as long as he has a credible backup to keep his 
business-critical apps running. Think "RRR Code Insurance" (like AAA). :-)

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>



From trevor at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Oct 14 13:14:27 2005
From: trevor at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:14:27 -0700
Subject: Unicode on Win 98/ME
Message-ID: <16007C03-924F-4F2C-9311-D2127FF89426@mangomultimedia.com>

While doing some Unicode research I was talking to a friend who does  
develops Windows software about his experience with localizing  
software.  He said that when they had to support double-byte  
languages they looked at using the Microsoft Layer for Unicode on Win  
98/ME because Microsoft was touting it as a great solution.  He said  
that once they actually tried to implement it all sorts of problems  
arose though and they eventually scrapped the idea of using Unicode  
until they dropped support for 98/ME.

Not knowing how Rev handles Unicode on Win 98 I'm wondering if  
Unicode support on Win 98/ME is comparable to the other platforms  
(2000/XP).  Does anyone have any experience with using Unicode and  
Rev on Win 98/ME with languages like Russian, Chinese or Japanese?   
Any gotchas to be aware of?

Thanks,

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct 14 13:18:18 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:18:18 -0700
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <OFA8D9DA05.C39E0809-ON8525709A.005C2725@sealedair.com>
References: <OFA8D9DA05.C39E0809-ON8525709A.005C2725@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <434FE85A.5020402@fourthworld.com>

Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:
> Wouldn't it be great if Rev Developers had a registry of 
> talent/capabilities?

Like this?:
<http://support.runrev.com/resources/consultants.php>

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Oct 14 13:22:14 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:22:14 +0200
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO [|Not so Short]
In-Reply-To: <B14BFF6B-5531-4F51-ACA1-395C565D88D4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <20051014165220.20FBE824F98@mail.runrev.com>

Dan,

you're clear that im complex and frustrated. and you're right!
sorry for being so revolutionary... but im not really...

most people grow up with legos, I discovered Fisher Tecknics
and didn't even try the other sets because FT's did it all
before Legos did more than just houses...

In HyperCard I built Duplos, then legos than FTs...

TAOO is an art of manipulating objects...
And it's not about navigation alone.

And this I don't make clearer for the reader as you point out!

consider user + computer

computer = applications + data

user = need + information

now, we need a reactive system, RunTime Revolution!

computer can help user get to data, edit it and send or store it away for
future benefits...

In this system we have all the rev "objects", stacks, cards, fields, lines,
columns, etc...

We all have needs for these... business or informational or for
administration of thousands of things... 

we don't have columns in rev but we abstract them with items...

so here's where it's different...

TAOO is the same, I or you can abstract a list of "objects" as "groups".

Forget the group keyword in rev for the moment

So a storage or list or catalog or book or index of objects is easily
represented by a group.

It's easy to see that you can manage a group of objects regardless of their
type.

Any object can be manipulated in its own way in a wide varieted of ways
whether in single or grouped form. This is a matter of grouping the
varieties

Rule of TAOO: if you create a function of one object, create equally the one
that does many...

But these ways of using objects are not intuitive in GUIs. 

hence someone along the line make the "explorer type of interface". 

Once which adapts to anything...

They (the guis) are a universe of groups of objects. These groups are
objects in groups too... you see the space now I see...

Now each object (or group) has a verb. Or rather the user needs to do this
to this object(s)... like delete contact or create contact. contact could be
a company or a car in the inventory.

Our object is a company, a product or a client... The groups are evident.
(in rev, these could be database records or cards in a stack with the
appropriate fields or custom prop arrays or text files, xml, etc...). 

What you don't see is that the underlying GUI, the running scripts use
"contact" (to name one object) as a keyword... It's not hard to make a
contacts stack and gui... true...

but now your business is trading... you need suppliers and buyer contacts to
be differentiated... 

To taoo this is the same "gui"... copy paste... done... no programming
involved... Is that OOP reuse or what? Navigation GUI goes without saying...

So the key and what I battle against today is the pletoria of information
storage types... Doing one by one is necessary but how to do you make one
GUI work with all without changing the GUI each time you update your DB API
or storage source?

That's where TAOO gets interesting because of it's hierarchy of events...

OS->IDE->TAOO->application

or TAOO->Master->[Manager->][Agent->][Group->]Object->property->Value

Navigation GUIS in this high-level dimention and it's control structure is
paramount actually - working in enterprise systems is quite different than
working in single stack releases... 

If you work on medium to long term or repetitive projects you can only
appreciate this* once you hit again another similar data structure to manage
in your application. It doesn't matter if it is record management or
GUI-text-style based controls for a gui. They should always do their best
across the environment. 

And with TAOO you can distribute these GUIs as objects and also improve them
all with only one, I repeat, one handler or change.

Distribution of application resources is easy to implement as we all know.
So automatism in a centralized system is only that much easier...

I don't know what else to say. im off the subject already probably...

After 8 years of economy, programming since 1982, im not shy of saying I put
the best of the best I learned or experienced since then into it... if it is
not clear to you or many others, I must be doing something wrong... but if I
really enjoy it's benefits since 15 years, how can I be so wrong? 

cheers
Xavier







From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct 14 13:25:07 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:25:07 -0700
Subject: "Andre's all-Rev Web server"
In-Reply-To: <C6349321-E37F-4BAA-B968-F4AF2974E4C5@mac.com>
References: <20051014082630.23C29825093@mail.runrev.com>	<402A2EA7-45D6-4B76-9878-7D37FE95D82C@mac.com>
	<C6349321-E37F-4BAA-B968-F4AF2974E4C5@mac.com>
Message-ID: <434FE9F3.1020806@fourthworld.com>

On Oct 14, 2005, at 11:18 AM, Jon Seymour wrote:
> Someone mentioned "Andre's all-Rev Web server"...sounds
> fascinating and of interest  to me...will someone point
> me in the right direction for more on this?

Andre's implementation is not to be missed, and when his web site is 
back together you'll definitely want to check it out.

But here's something to get you started:

The inventor of the Rev engine, Scott Raney, once put together a simple 
HTTP server stack to show off MetaCard's socket support (back then the 
engine was called MetaCard).

You can still download a copy from MetaCard's FTP site:
<ftp://ftp.metacard.com/MetaCard/mchttpd.zip>

It's a cool thing to play with -- totally customizable, as it's just a 
few relatively straightforward scripts.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From AbilityForms at aol.com  Fri Oct 14 13:31:42 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:31:42 EDT
Subject: Maxed out windows
Message-ID: <d1.3352bf48.3081457e@aol.com>

Hi Everyone,

Here's my question of the day. Why are my script editor, inspector, 
preference and menu editor windows all opening up to the full screen? How do I set it 
so that they open the small size as the default?

Joe, Orlando, Florida


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct 14 13:33:43 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:33:43 -0700
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO [|Not so Short]
In-Reply-To: <20051014165220.20FBE824F98@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051014165220.20FBE824F98@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <434FEBF7.7010201@fourthworld.com>


That's helpful, but still a lot to digest (maybe it's just my pre-coffee 
state of mind).

So it's a library, or set of libraries?

To get a feel for how it works, are there similarities/differences with 
Apple's Core Data?
<http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/CoreData/index.html>

Got a 30-word-or-less summary of what it does for developers?

It would be helpful to see it in action -- do you have links to 
applications shipping with it, perhaps with descriptions of how it 
helped the development process?

TIA -

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


MisterX wrote:
> Dan,
> 
> you're clear that im complex and frustrated. and you're right!
> sorry for being so revolutionary... but im not really...
> 
> most people grow up with legos, I discovered Fisher Tecknics
> and didn't even try the other sets because FT's did it all
> before Legos did more than just houses...
> 
> In HyperCard I built Duplos, then legos than FTs...
> 
> TAOO is an art of manipulating objects...
> And it's not about navigation alone.
> 
> And this I don't make clearer for the reader as you point out!
> 
> consider user + computer
> 
> computer = applications + data
> 
> user = need + information
> 
> now, we need a reactive system, RunTime Revolution!
> 
> computer can help user get to data, edit it and send or store it away for
> future benefits...
> 
> In this system we have all the rev "objects", stacks, cards, fields, lines,
> columns, etc...
> 
> We all have needs for these... business or informational or for
> administration of thousands of things... 
> 
> we don't have columns in rev but we abstract them with items...
> 
> so here's where it's different...
> 
> TAOO is the same, I or you can abstract a list of "objects" as "groups".
> 
> Forget the group keyword in rev for the moment
> 
> So a storage or list or catalog or book or index of objects is easily
> represented by a group.
> 
> It's easy to see that you can manage a group of objects regardless of their
> type.
> 
> Any object can be manipulated in its own way in a wide varieted of ways
> whether in single or grouped form. This is a matter of grouping the
> varieties
> 
> Rule of TAOO: if you create a function of one object, create equally the one
> that does many...
> 
> But these ways of using objects are not intuitive in GUIs. 
> 
> hence someone along the line make the "explorer type of interface". 
> 
> Once which adapts to anything...
> 
> They (the guis) are a universe of groups of objects. These groups are
> objects in groups too... you see the space now I see...
> 
> Now each object (or group) has a verb. Or rather the user needs to do this
> to this object(s)... like delete contact or create contact. contact could be
> a company or a car in the inventory.
> 
> Our object is a company, a product or a client... The groups are evident.
> (in rev, these could be database records or cards in a stack with the
> appropriate fields or custom prop arrays or text files, xml, etc...). 
> 
> What you don't see is that the underlying GUI, the running scripts use
> "contact" (to name one object) as a keyword... It's not hard to make a
> contacts stack and gui... true...
> 
> but now your business is trading... you need suppliers and buyer contacts to
> be differentiated... 
> 
> To taoo this is the same "gui"... copy paste... done... no programming
> involved... Is that OOP reuse or what? Navigation GUI goes without saying...
> 
> So the key and what I battle against today is the pletoria of information
> storage types... Doing one by one is necessary but how to do you make one
> GUI work with all without changing the GUI each time you update your DB API
> or storage source?
> 
> That's where TAOO gets interesting because of it's hierarchy of events...
> 
> OS->IDE->TAOO->application
> 
> or TAOO->Master->[Manager->][Agent->][Group->]Object->property->Value
> 
> Navigation GUIS in this high-level dimention and it's control structure is
> paramount actually - working in enterprise systems is quite different than
> working in single stack releases... 
> 
> If you work on medium to long term or repetitive projects you can only
> appreciate this* once you hit again another similar data structure to manage
> in your application. It doesn't matter if it is record management or
> GUI-text-style based controls for a gui. They should always do their best
> across the environment. 
> 
> And with TAOO you can distribute these GUIs as objects and also improve them
> all with only one, I repeat, one handler or change.
> 
> Distribution of application resources is easy to implement as we all know.
> So automatism in a centralized system is only that much easier...
> 
> I don't know what else to say. im off the subject already probably...
> 
> After 8 years of economy, programming since 1982, im not shy of saying I put
> the best of the best I learned or experienced since then into it... if it is
> not clear to you or many others, I must be doing something wrong... but if I
> really enjoy it's benefits since 15 years, how can I be so wrong? 
> 
> cheers
> Xavier



From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Fri Oct 14 13:38:18 2005
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:38:18 -0400
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
Message-ID: <OF4160BA16.0344447C-ON8525709A.005FCA6B@sealedair.com>

>> Wouldn't it be great if Rev Developers had a registry of
>> talent/capabilities?
> 
> Like this?:
> <http://support.runrev.com/resources/consultants.php>
> 
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Managing Editor, revJournal

<blush>  Yeah... Like that.  </blush>   ;-p

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>



From david at openpartnership.net  Fri Oct 14 13:44:54 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (david bovill)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:44:54 +0200
Subject: [ANN] libGrowl 1.0.0
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-F269A7C3753F393383DC29CC3780@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY105-F269A7C3753F393383DC29CC3780@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CB390B53-1F54-40FC-A048-65792B8A984B@openpartnership.net>

Thanks for this will play :)

Now how about an IMAP library - that would stop me using an email  
client :)

On 11 Oct 2005, at 06:52, Sean Shao wrote:

> For anyone who is using Growl <www.growl.info> and wants to make  
> their Mac OS X based RunRev programs work with Growl, there is a  
> new library available to allow you to do so.
>
> The only thing to be added in a future release is checking if the  
> Growl Preference Pane is installed.
>
> -Sean
> http://www.shaosean.tk/  (let me apologize in advanced for the pop- 
> up ad or pre-website ad)
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today -  
> it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/ 
> direct/01/
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Oct 14 13:53:05 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:53:05 +0200
Subject: Maxed out windows
In-Reply-To: <d1.3352bf48.3081457e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20051014172327.7B6EA824F57@mail.runrev.com>

Mac or windows?

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> AbilityForms at aol.com
> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 7:32 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Maxed out windows
> 
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Here's my question of the day. Why are my script editor, 
> inspector, preference and menu editor windows all opening up 
> to the full screen? How do I set it so that they open the 
> small size as the default?
> 
> Joe, Orlando, Florida
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dleyanna at rtl.org  Fri Oct 14 13:53:44 2005
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:53:44 -0400
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO [|Not so Short]
In-Reply-To: <20051014165220.20FBE824F98@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051014165220.20FBE824F98@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <434FF0A8.4080901@rtl.org>

As a novice to both Rev. and certainly TAOO (but not SQL, data modeling 
or RADs) perhaps it may be useful for me to take the data modeler's 
equivalent of an advanced "Hello World" and work with you to produce a 
tutorial that shows the complete process of developing a "Name, Address, 
Phone Number" application using TAOO. As we all know, tracking and 
formatting names and addresses can be tricky if you want to be as 
flexible as possible. Considering internationalization, households with 
couples that don't have the same last name with children with different 
last names, etc.

This sound like a perfect job for a TAOO template. A name template, an 
address template and a phone number template and a group of these with 
"automatic relationships" when you plop them together. A business 
address is more complex that a residence one. What if you want both type 
in the same stack? How would you create a "name" line for an envelope 
that was going to a particular person at an address as opposed to a 
communication that was intended for a couple that resided at that 
address? Once more, how would you create the salutation for a 
personalized letter inside for each situation?

Once you had all of this figured out and placed in templates I would 
think that one would only need to copy the template into the app and 
perhaps adjust some "configuration" variables and, "Ta DA!" in mere 
moments, that part of a custom app is done.  Is this what you mean Mister X?

Dave

MisterX wrote:

>Dan,
>
>you're clear that im complex and frustrated. and you're right!
>sorry for being so revolutionary... but im not really...
>
>most people grow up with legos, I discovered Fisher Tecknics
>and didn't even try the other sets because FT's did it all
>before Legos did more than just houses...
>
>In HyperCard I built Duplos, then legos than FTs...
>
>TAOO is an art of manipulating objects...
>And it's not about navigation alone.
>
>And this I don't make clearer for the reader as you point out!
>
>consider user + computer
>
>computer = applications + data
>
>user = need + information
>
>now, we need a reactive system, RunTime Revolution!
>
>computer can help user get to data, edit it and send or store it away for
>future benefits...
>
>In this system we have all the rev "objects", stacks, cards, fields, lines,
>columns, etc...
>
>We all have needs for these... business or informational or for
>administration of thousands of things... 
>
>we don't have columns in rev but we abstract them with items...
>
>so here's where it's different...
>
>TAOO is the same, I or you can abstract a list of "objects" as "groups".
>
>Forget the group keyword in rev for the moment
>
>So a storage or list or catalog or book or index of objects is easily
>represented by a group.
>
>It's easy to see that you can manage a group of objects regardless of their
>type.
>
>Any object can be manipulated in its own way in a wide varieted of ways
>whether in single or grouped form. This is a matter of grouping the
>varieties
>
>Rule of TAOO: if you create a function of one object, create equally the one
>that does many...
>
>But these ways of using objects are not intuitive in GUIs. 
>
>hence someone along the line make the "explorer type of interface". 
>
>Once which adapts to anything...
>
>They (the guis) are a universe of groups of objects. These groups are
>objects in groups too... you see the space now I see...
>
>Now each object (or group) has a verb. Or rather the user needs to do this
>to this object(s)... like delete contact or create contact. contact could be
>a company or a car in the inventory.
>
>Our object is a company, a product or a client... The groups are evident.
>(in rev, these could be database records or cards in a stack with the
>appropriate fields or custom prop arrays or text files, xml, etc...). 
>
>What you don't see is that the underlying GUI, the running scripts use
>"contact" (to name one object) as a keyword... It's not hard to make a
>contacts stack and gui... true...
>
>but now your business is trading... you need suppliers and buyer contacts to
>be differentiated... 
>
>To taoo this is the same "gui"... copy paste... done... no programming
>involved... Is that OOP reuse or what? Navigation GUI goes without saying...
>
>So the key and what I battle against today is the pletoria of information
>storage types... Doing one by one is necessary but how to do you make one
>GUI work with all without changing the GUI each time you update your DB API
>or storage source?
>
>That's where TAOO gets interesting because of it's hierarchy of events...
>
>OS->IDE->TAOO->application
>
>or TAOO->Master->[Manager->][Agent->][Group->]Object->property->Value
>
>Navigation GUIS in this high-level dimention and it's control structure is
>paramount actually - working in enterprise systems is quite different than
>working in single stack releases... 
>
>If you work on medium to long term or repetitive projects you can only
>appreciate this* once you hit again another similar data structure to manage
>in your application. It doesn't matter if it is record management or
>GUI-text-style based controls for a gui. They should always do their best
>across the environment. 
>
>And with TAOO you can distribute these GUIs as objects and also improve them
>all with only one, I repeat, one handler or change.
>
>Distribution of application resources is easy to implement as we all know.
>So automatism in a centralized system is only that much easier...
>
>I don't know what else to say. im off the subject already probably...
>
>After 8 years of economy, programming since 1982, im not shy of saying I put
>the best of the best I learned or experienced since then into it... if it is
>not clear to you or many others, I must be doing something wrong... but if I
>really enjoy it's benefits since 15 years, how can I be so wrong? 
>
>cheers
>Xavier
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>  
>



From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Fri Oct 14 14:03:55 2005
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:03:55 +0100
Subject: Advice on deploying 'splash screen' apps
Message-ID: <434FF30B.9000703@cogapp.com>

I've done a few little splash screen apps with very limited deployment (eg 1-3 
users); and some completely self-contained apps with wider deployment.

Now I'd like to make one of my more widely deployed apps into a splash-screen 
based app, so that it can update itself over the net.

Where I've done this on the very custom apps, I've been happy to have the 
standalone live in a folder with a 'service' folder, in which it keeps the 
elements updated over the net, user prefs stack, etc.  However, the app I want 
to revise is currently used (on both Mac and Windows) as just a single file 
(actually in the case of the Mac, a package, but to the users it's a single 
file), storing preferences in an XML file in the nominated preferences area, 
and I'd like ideally to keep it that way.

So my question then is where should I keep the updatable elements of the 
application?

On the Mac, the two options I would guess are:
  - inside the standalone app's package;
  - in a folder called something like 'com.cogapp.myapp' in either 
"/Library/Application Support" or "~/Library/Application Support".

Could anyone comment on the pros and cons of these two approaches?

On Windows... I'm a stranger around those parts.  Obviously the package 
situation doesn't exist.  Is there an equivalent location to the "Application 
Support" trees?  Or is it more normal to have your app in a folder with its 
support files?

I'd be very grateful for comments, experience, tips, etc.

Cheers,

Ben



From david at openpartnership.net  Fri Oct 14 14:06:37 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (david bovill)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 20:06:37 +0200
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <DDE59D78-A78D-4B73-B97A-984318EE47A6@danshafer.com>
References: <p06230903bf73d971621f@[192.168.183.2]>
	<2ED8067B-9E94-4391-841D-789860F6B0C8@danshafer.com>
	<F8983AE2-BFBD-4C33-8E64-36B0BD01AA9F@mac.com>
	<DDE59D78-A78D-4B73-B97A-984318EE47A6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <5415EA50-BB80-456F-BCE8-21AFB90030BC@openpartnership.net>

My thinking on this currently is write Rev clients that use XML as a  
file format, and behave like Laszlo or AJAX web applications - that  
is the communicate with the server by sending and receiving XML -  
Restfuly. The argument then goes - anyone can convert this stuff to  
AJAX later - but Rev is just much faster and cheaper to develop in -  
plus of course ....


On 13 Oct 2005, at 22:54, Dan Shafer wrote:

> * generally faster than Web apps
> * not dependent upon a reasonably fast Internet connection
> * not dependent on a server "out there somewhere" being up and  
> running and not overloaded
> * better looking with better user experiences (at least potentially)
> * easier to protect against unauthorized use
> * able to read and write data to and from the user's local drive  
> (which neither Laszlo nor AJAX can do, being confined in a security  
> sandbox)


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 14 14:09:46 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:09:46 -0500
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO [LONG]
In-Reply-To: <B14BFF6B-5531-4F51-ACA1-395C565D88D4@danshafer.com>
References: <OF38D9145F.BD4636A4-ONC125709A.004046AE-C125709A.00413A42@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<B14BFF6B-5531-4F51-ACA1-395C565D88D4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <434FF46A.5070502@hyperactivesw.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:

> There is a vague sense of excitement about what you offer here. Your  
> passion is obvious. That you've developed this architecture across  many 
> languages over the years is impressive. But at the end of the  day, a 
> busy programmer cannot easily figure out what this beast is  and how it 
> would help him or her develop powerful applications with  greater facility.


That was pretty much the problem back on the HyperCard list when 
Xavier's project was "XOS" and he posted frequently about it there. Many 
people downloaded it and took a look, but no one could figure out how it 
worked or what it was for, and so it didn't catch on. It needs clear 
examples, cleaner code, and a lot of documentation.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From david at openpartnership.net  Fri Oct 14 14:10:04 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (david bovill)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 20:10:04 +0200
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <79FD6137-50FC-46B5-8CBD-7CF7C305C9AB@danshafer.com>
References: <p06230903bf73d971621f@[192.168.183.2]>
	<2ED8067B-9E94-4391-841D-789860F6B0C8@danshafer.com>
	<F8983AE2-BFBD-4C33-8E64-36B0BD01AA9F@mac.com>
	<DDE59D78-A78D-4B73-B97A-984318EE47A6@danshafer.com>
	<14730218431.20051013161703@ahsoftware.net>
	<79FD6137-50FC-46B5-8CBD-7CF7C305C9AB@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <39EA6E15-689B-480F-83DD-59E471E52316@openpartnership.net>

What would be useful here would be to have an open source freelance  
and company developer and resource - much more than just a few  
individuals and companies listed on a web site and email list .... if  
you need it fixed and Dan gets stomped well these guys can pick up  
the pieces and send the flowers?

On 14 Oct 2005, at 03:06, Dan Shafer wrote:

> I agree 100%. Unless, of course, I'm the sole source.
>
> Dan
>
> On Oct 13, 2005, at 4:17 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:
>
>
>> Back when I was doing hardware stuff, our one strict rule was "never
>> design a circuit with single-source parts". If your sole supplier  
>> gets
>> "stomped on by a dinosaur" you're SOL.
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Oct 14 14:13:52 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 20:13:52 +0200
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO [|Not so Short]
In-Reply-To: <434FEBF7.7010201@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20051014174353.921BB825086@mail.runrev.com>


it's a set of libraries...

each naturally named as the name of the object they manage.

Masters usually have a plural name of object's manager's name (like Objects
masters or Events)....

look also at corba for similarities... :)

xml ultimately...

you still wont see this...

where rev really gives TAOO a kick is at the art of manipulating events and
objects in its manager and master hierarchy respectively. 

Taoo is the middleware between the user and the data...

Tan(x) richard...
> To get a feel for how it works, are there 
> similarities/differences with Apple's Core Data?
>
<http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/CoreData/index.ht
ml>

is much more userfriendly in TAOO's terms than cocoa could be by itself...

In 30 words:

There's lots to be done still but the goal remains: idea to GUI and
information at your fingertips in the increasing more capable and least
effort possible..

no offense meant but I could use your clear minded help too Richard!

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Richard Gaskin
> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 7:34 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO [|Not so Short]
> 
> 
> That's helpful, but still a lot to digest (maybe it's just my 
> pre-coffee state of mind).
> 
> So it's a library, or set of libraries?
> 
> To get a feel for how it works, are there 
> similarities/differences with Apple's Core Data?
>
<http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/CoreData/index.ht
ml>
> 
> Got a 30-word-or-less summary of what it does for developers?
> 
> It would be helpful to see it in action -- do you have links 
> to applications shipping with it, perhaps with descriptions 
> of how it helped the development process?
> 
> TIA -
> 
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Managing Editor, revJournal
>   _______________________________________________________
>   Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
> 
> 
> MisterX wrote:
> > Dan,
> > 
> > you're clear that im complex and frustrated. and you're right!
> > sorry for being so revolutionary... but im not really...
> > 
> > most people grow up with legos, I discovered Fisher Tecknics and 
> > didn't even try the other sets because FT's did it all before Legos 
> > did more than just houses...
> > 
> > In HyperCard I built Duplos, then legos than FTs...
> > 
> > TAOO is an art of manipulating objects...
> > And it's not about navigation alone.
> > 
> > And this I don't make clearer for the reader as you point out!
> > 
> > consider user + computer
> > 
> > computer = applications + data
> > 
> > user = need + information
> > 
> > now, we need a reactive system, RunTime Revolution!
> > 
> > computer can help user get to data, edit it and send or 
> store it away 
> > for future benefits...
> > 
> > In this system we have all the rev "objects", stacks, 
> cards, fields, 
> > lines, columns, etc...
> > 
> > We all have needs for these... business or informational or for 
> > administration of thousands of things...
> > 
> > we don't have columns in rev but we abstract them with items...
> > 
> > so here's where it's different...
> > 
> > TAOO is the same, I or you can abstract a list of "objects" 
> as "groups".
> > 
> > Forget the group keyword in rev for the moment
> > 
> > So a storage or list or catalog or book or index of objects 
> is easily 
> > represented by a group.
> > 
> > It's easy to see that you can manage a group of objects 
> regardless of 
> > their type.
> > 
> > Any object can be manipulated in its own way in a wide varieted of 
> > ways whether in single or grouped form. This is a matter of 
> grouping 
> > the varieties
> > 
> > Rule of TAOO: if you create a function of one object, 
> create equally 
> > the one that does many...
> > 
> > But these ways of using objects are not intuitive in GUIs. 
> > 
> > hence someone along the line make the "explorer type of interface". 
> > 
> > Once which adapts to anything...
> > 
> > They (the guis) are a universe of groups of objects. These 
> groups are 
> > objects in groups too... you see the space now I see...
> > 
> > Now each object (or group) has a verb. Or rather the user 
> needs to do 
> > this to this object(s)... like delete contact or create contact. 
> > contact could be a company or a car in the inventory.
> > 
> > Our object is a company, a product or a client... The 
> groups are evident.
> > (in rev, these could be database records or cards in a 
> stack with the 
> > appropriate fields or custom prop arrays or text files, 
> xml, etc...).
> > 
> > What you don't see is that the underlying GUI, the running 
> scripts use 
> > "contact" (to name one object) as a keyword... It's not 
> hard to make a 
> > contacts stack and gui... true...
> > 
> > but now your business is trading... you need suppliers and buyer 
> > contacts to be differentiated...
> > 
> > To taoo this is the same "gui"... copy paste... done... no 
> programming 
> > involved... Is that OOP reuse or what? Navigation GUI goes 
> without saying...
> > 
> > So the key and what I battle against today is the pletoria of 
> > information storage types... Doing one by one is necessary 
> but how to 
> > do you make one GUI work with all without changing the GUI 
> each time 
> > you update your DB API or storage source?
> > 
> > That's where TAOO gets interesting because of it's 
> hierarchy of events...
> > 
> > OS->IDE->TAOO->application
> > 
> > or 
> TAOO->Master->[Manager->][Agent->][Group->]Object->property->Value
> > 
> > Navigation GUIS in this high-level dimention and it's control 
> > structure is paramount actually - working in enterprise systems is 
> > quite different than working in single stack releases...
> > 
> > If you work on medium to long term or repetitive projects 
> you can only 
> > appreciate this* once you hit again another similar data 
> structure to 
> > manage in your application. It doesn't matter if it is record 
> > management or GUI-text-style based controls for a gui. They should 
> > always do their best across the environment.
> > 
> > And with TAOO you can distribute these GUIs as objects and also 
> > improve them all with only one, I repeat, one handler or change.
> > 
> > Distribution of application resources is easy to implement 
> as we all know.
> > So automatism in a centralized system is only that much easier...
> > 
> > I don't know what else to say. im off the subject already 
> probably...
> > 
> > After 8 years of economy, programming since 1982, im not 
> shy of saying 
> > I put the best of the best I learned or experienced since then into 
> > it... if it is not clear to you or many others, I must be doing 
> > something wrong... but if I really enjoy it's benefits 
> since 15 years, how can I be so wrong?
> > 
> > cheers
> > Xavier
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Oct 14 14:27:26 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 20:27:26 +0200
Subject: Hello science in TAOO
Message-ID: <20051014175727.3C5D6824F30@mail.runrev.com>

gals and guys,

I just can't do a simpler example than this which I prepared long ago, based
on yahoo encyclopedia data, so maybe this will show TAOO better on a
meta-flat level (only inter-relational lookups)...

http://monsieurx.com/hyper/xos/Groups/Science.rev

600KBs

Please see the similarity with Logshark, Discretebrowser (without the index)
or the TAOO documentation (same stack actually)...

only the name of the object changes... that's the natural beauty of it in
"context" with the universe of data you may have...

it's a way to see science in a limited way... but it already does more than
a simple hello world (which it can't do simpler than rev)...

showmsg "hello world" -- requires the taoo download (5000+ script lines) +
runrev ;)

Yes, I know some menus may not work... it's made on a pc too in case you
wondered why it looks busy or pc like... don?t mind the looks or rev
incompatibilities for crossplatform issues please...

cheers
Xavier






From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Oct 14 14:28:56 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:28:56 +0100
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO
In-Reply-To: <OF38D9145F.BD4636A4-ONC125709A.004046AE-C125709A.00413A42@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OF38D9145F.BD4636A4-ONC125709A.004046AE-C125709A.00413A42@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <434FF8E8.3010804@tweedly.net>

xbury.cs at clearstream.com wrote:

>Hi Alex
>
>  
>
>>No, first thing he had was an "elevator pitch". In his case, he didn't 
>>need to create it specifically as an elevator pitch - but what he had 
>>was a simple, 30-50 second description of what he was doing that was 
>>understandable to almost any potential collaborator.
>>
>>"I'm doing an open-source, freely licensed version of Unix - it will be 
>>library and API compatible so all your code, shell scripts and general 
>>usage will work on it."
>>
>>TAOO doesn't, as far as I know, have that. 
>>    
>>
>
>That's the first line on my website!!! 
>
>  
>
Do you mean

> *M*odular *O*bject *N*etwork *S*emantical *I*nfeered *E*rgonomic 
> *U*ser-friendly *R*apid *X*treme *D*evelopment *O*r 
> *T*rans-*C*ontextual *O*rganization *M*anagement.

Sorry - that doesn't tell me anything (other than that you're clever at 
coming up with acronyms :-)

>http://monsieurx.com/TAOO also has that as front story...
>
>and there's the documentation...
>
>  
>
Which starts out
"The hardest thing about TAOO is explaining exactly what it is or what 
it cannot do. It is many things ...."

>When i made a documentation stack - nobody found it useful. I said at one 
>point that it was an
>example - and people still didn't see it... I can't tell you how lost i am 
>at that point!
>
>Nor did i ever hear you ask "how it should feel"...
>
>  
>
People hate to give negative feedback. It's not too hard to do if it's 
specific and objective ("I did this and it gave the wrong answer"), but 
it's very difficult to give non-specific negative feedback ("I read all 
the docs and I just don't understand what it's about"). I downloaded the 
docs a year ago, read through them, didn't "get it", and so I just 
assumed that it was my fault for skimming too quickly - but I didn't 
have the time to dig in more deeply, so I gave you little or no 
feedback. (Actually, I did send one email saying something like that it 
was too abstract and more concrete examples would help - but it wasn't 
as much feedback as I might have given).

To go back to the Linux example - it was easy to understand what Linux 
was because the end result is very similar to a familiar item (Unix), 
with a well-defined variation (open source, free, community, etc.).

TAOO is not that similar to any one familiar item (AFAICT), so it's 
harder to describe, and harder to understand.

I know this is probably *too* simple to be a good example - but I think 
it would help to see the "hello world" of taoo. Pick a kind of app that 
taoo is ideally suited for, and provide either a sample stack, or 
perhaps a tutorial explaining the decision processes and development 
actions taken in developing it - all to show how and why taoo helps. 
"hello world" is far too simple to be suitable - but some tiny-to-small app.


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net

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From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 14 14:30:38 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:30:38 -0500
Subject: Fancy Font in Properties Palette
In-Reply-To: <BF749C3C.2DACB%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF749C3C.2DACB%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <434FF94E.9090009@hyperactivesw.com>

Ken Ray wrote:
> On 10/13/05 10:53 PM, "Benjamin Pastrana" <pastranadigital at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>I am getting a very Fancy Font in the properties palettes.
>>How I can set it to verdana or arial font?
>>Thanks
> 
> 
> Is this on Windows or Mac? And do you know what font is actually being
> displayed? More information would help to be able to solve the problem...

We saw this a few times in the tech support queue a while back. It only 
seems to occur on Mac OS X, and is due to a font ID conflict. Often the 
conflicting font is an old one in the OS 9 Classic font folder, but one 
person had a conflict with a font in the OS X font folder (it is 
possible that person moved an old font into that location.) The native 
system fonts don't seem to be a problem, but third-party fonts may cause it.

If the font is recognizable, just look in both font folders to find it 
and remove it. If it isn't immediately recognizable, then the only cure 
is to remove third-party fonts one at a time and restart Revolution to 
see which one it is.

If the font is necessary for other work, then there are a few utilities 
out there that can assign new IDs to a font. That also reportedly works.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Oct 14 15:22:43 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:22:43 +0200
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO
In-Reply-To: <434FF8E8.3010804@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <20051014185245.A2D22824F93@mail.runrev.com>

another try

Alex inspired...

TAOO is to rev as

PHPNuke is to php and sql.

But that's just the language of it...

and it's not like any of you haven't done it at least once!

TAOO is (in plainwords), how to make this happen everytime!

but it's not there yet without your help...

The problem with X-Men is about 
expressing their good will isn't it?
;)
cheers
Xav
http://monsieurx.com



From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Oct 14 15:35:27 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:35:27 -0300
Subject: "Andre's all-Rev Web server"
In-Reply-To: <434FE9F3.1020806@fourthworld.com>
References: <20051014082630.23C29825093@mail.runrev.com>
	<402A2EA7-45D6-4B76-9878-7D37FE95D82C@mac.com>
	<C6349321-E37F-4BAA-B968-F4AF2974E4C5@mac.com>
	<434FE9F3.1020806@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <EF3300F9-50EC-4B16-8C42-4F90A8067AD0@mac.com>

Jon and Richard,

I remember when I first encountered that mchttpd file, I think it was  
you that recommended that implementation for me long ago, couple  
years, it was using that implementation as a guide and reading "HTTP  
Made Really Easy" <http://www.jmarshall.com/easy/http/> that I first  
implemented my server... That implementation is very easy to  
understand, it is a wonderful educational material

Cheers
andre


On Oct 14, 2005, at 2:25 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> On Oct 14, 2005, at 11:18 AM, Jon Seymour wrote:
>
>> Someone mentioned "Andre's all-Rev Web server"...sounds
>> fascinating and of interest  to me...will someone point
>> me in the right direction for more on this?
>>
>
> Andre's implementation is not to be missed, and when his web site  
> is back together you'll definitely want to check it out.
>
> But here's something to get you started:
>
> The inventor of the Rev engine, Scott Raney, once put together a  
> simple HTTP server stack to show off MetaCard's socket support  
> (back then the engine was called MetaCard).
>
> You can still download a copy from MetaCard's FTP site:
> <ftp://ftp.metacard.com/MetaCard/mchttpd.zip>
>
> It's a cool thing to play with -- totally customizable, as it's  
> just a few relatively straightforward scripts.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Managing Editor, revJournal
>  _______________________________________________________
>  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Oct 14 16:00:07 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 17:00:07 -0300
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO
In-Reply-To: <20051014185245.A2D22824F93@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051014185245.A2D22824F93@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <43715BA9-07CA-4C36-A46D-F523548364B8@mac.com>

Xavier,

why don't you do like simple rules, for example create a small resume  
of TAOO, in plain english, like the kind of text undergrads could  
understand. Then create a blog kind of page where you document TAOO  
little by little, with pratical examples. Then maybe you could gather  
this collab effort you want.

cheers
andre



On Oct 14, 2005, at 4:22 PM, MisterX wrote:

> another try
>
> Alex inspired...
>
> TAOO is to rev as
>
> PHPNuke is to php and sql.
>
> But that's just the language of it...
>
> and it's not like any of you haven't done it at least once!
>
> TAOO is (in plainwords), how to make this happen everytime!
>
> but it's not there yet without your help...
>
> The problem with X-Men is about
> expressing their good will isn't it?
> ;)
> cheers
> Xav
> http://monsieurx.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From wsumner at im.wustl.edu  Fri Oct 14 16:15:02 2005
From: wsumner at im.wustl.edu (Walton Sumner)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:15:02 -0500
Subject: Radio buttons turn off checkboxes
Message-ID: <BF757BF6.47A6%wsumner@im.wustl.edu>

A group with radioBehavior checked, 3 radio buttons, and several check boxes
works as expected, except that Rev 2.6.1 (OSX and Win versions) turns off
all of the checkboxes when I click a radio button. Subgrouping the 3 radio
buttons prevents this, but that is not supposed to be necessary -
documentation says that radioBehavior should affect only buttons with style
radiobutton, so it ought to ignore those with style checkbox. Seems
hazardous for the behavior not to match documentation. Or am I doing
something wrong? 

Walt Sumner
 




From revolution at jaedworks.com  Fri Oct 14 16:44:09 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:44:09 -0700
Subject: Radio buttons turn off checkboxes
In-Reply-To: <BF757BF6.47A6%wsumner@im.wustl.edu>
References: <BF757BF6.47A6%wsumner@im.wustl.edu>
Message-ID: <p06210227bf75c8838fde@[66.93.39.98]>

At 3:15 PM -0500 10/14/2005, Walton Sumner wrote:
>A group with radioBehavior checked, 3 radio buttons, and several check boxes
>works as expected, except that Rev 2.6.1 (OSX and Win versions) turns off
>all of the checkboxes when I click a radio button. Subgrouping the 3 radio
>buttons prevents this, but that is not supposed to be necessary -
>documentation says that radioBehavior should affect only buttons with style
>radiobutton, so it ought to ignore those with style checkbox. Seems
>hazardous for the behavior not to match documentation. Or am I doing
>something wrong?

That looks like a bug to me. (I notice that changing a checkbox 
highlight doesn't turn off the radio buttons, but changing a radio 
button highlight does turn off any checkboxes. It also does the same 
number on any highlighted buttons.)

Would you like to bugzilla this, or should I?
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Oct 14 16:51:17 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:51:17 -0500
Subject: Hello science in TAOO
In-Reply-To: <20051014175727.3C5D6824F30@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BF758475.2DBEF%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/14/05 1:27 PM, "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:

> I just can't do a simpler example than this which I prepared long ago, based
> on yahoo encyclopedia data, so maybe this will show TAOO better on a
> meta-flat level (only inter-relational lookups)...
> 
> http://monsieurx.com/hyper/xos/Groups/Science.rev


n 10/14/05 1:13 PM, "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:

> it's a set of libraries...
> 
> each naturally named as the name of the object they manage.
> 
> Masters usually have a plural name of object's manager's name (like Objects
> masters or Events)....


I took a quick look at Science.rev, and there aren't any libraries, or
substacks, so I'm confused... is that what you meant by "meta-flat level
(only inter-relational lookups)"? (Sorry, but that didn't mean much to
me...)


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Oct 14 16:52:20 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:52:20 -0500
Subject: Fancy Font in Properties Palette
In-Reply-To: <434FF94E.9090009@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <BF7584B4.2DBF0%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/14/05 1:30 PM, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:

> Ken Ray wrote:
>> On 10/13/05 10:53 PM, "Benjamin Pastrana" <pastranadigital at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> I am getting a very Fancy Font in the properties palettes.
>>> How I can set it to verdana or arial font?
>>> Thanks
>> 
>> 
>> Is this on Windows or Mac? And do you know what font is actually being
>> displayed? More information would help to be able to solve the problem...
> 
> We saw this a few times in the tech support queue a while back. It only
> seems to occur on Mac OS X, and is due to a font ID conflict.

Font ID conflict? Geez, I thought we left that far behind in the 90's...

;-)


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From psahores at easynet.fr  Fri Oct 14 17:29:39 2005
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 23:29:39 +0200
Subject: Fwd: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
References: <58FDF8A8-8EE5-4D70-BA0B-5843E2944E46@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <678606BF-B1E2-4E03-9FAE-F73A07DC6C25@easynet.fr>

In between about AJAX : For the ones interested by GIS and  
MapServer's solutions, AJAX is really usefull and the ka-map library  
<http://dl.maptools.org/dl/ka-map/> let us develop great  
asynchronious "n-tier" apps...

D?but du message r?exp?di? :

> De : Pierre Sahores <psahores at easynet.fr>
> Date : 14 octobre 2005 22:42:13 HAEC
> ? : How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>, Alex  
> Shaw <alex at harryscollar.com>
> Cc : Pierre Sahores <psahores at easynet.fr>
> Objet : R?p : Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
>
>
> Hi Alex,
>
> Perhaps would this link help, with all my apologies about my  
> froggy's english !,  in about building web applications servers  
> (instead of simple cgis) in using Rev. Works well there since 1998  
> (linux and osx servers) : <http://istream.homeunix.com/insead/ 
> index_en.html>
>
> Best,
>
> Le 14 oct. 05 ? 14:47, Alex Shaw a ?crit :

>> but even in the cgi area, rev is improving.. it still seems to  
>> need libraries which i've discovered are not on all public web- 
>> hosting services.. personally, i really dislike doing cgi stuff  
>> and would much rather do it in transcript.. on that subject..
>>
>> a quick question for the runrev crew..
>>
>> * Is it possible to get/order custom-compiled versions of rev?  
>> (eg. Stripped down super efficient cgi engine without ~any~ gui  
>> code but still database functional)
>>
>> i currently develop & test on 3 (mac,pc,linux) platforms & as a  
>> one-man team i prefer rev's unified approach to development
>>
>
> -- 
> Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
>
> 100, rue de Paris
> F - 77140 Nemours
>
> skype : psahores
>
> psahores+ at +easynet.fr
> sc+ at +sahores-conseil.com
>
> GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
> Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
> Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
>
> <http://www.sahores-conseil.com/>
>
> WEB/VoD/ACID-DB services over IP
> "Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"
>
>



From katir at hindu.org  Fri Oct 14 18:05:12 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:05:12 -1000
Subject: New date format: YYYY-MM-DD
Message-ID: <62C4FF87-6E06-4176-90E3-ADC384575833@hindu.org>

Anyone want to vote for a new standard date format?

YYYY-MM-DD

In fact I believe the above is some standard now...

  I find myself more and more encountering this as input from systems  
both of my own creation and from others...

Now you have to do a little dance to get that into a convertable  
string...or am I missing something

input: e.g.

06/04/13 tab someData tab SomeMoreData etc

set the itemdel to tab
put item 1 of line 1 into tDate
set the itemdel to "/"
put "/" &  item 1 of tDate after tDate
delete item 1 of tDate
set the itemdel to tab

Sivakatirswami



From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Oct 14 18:14:47 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 23:14:47 +0100
Subject: New date format: YYYY-MM-DD
In-Reply-To: <62C4FF87-6E06-4176-90E3-ADC384575833@hindu.org>
References: <62C4FF87-6E06-4176-90E3-ADC384575833@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <43502DD7.3010406@tweedly.net>

Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Anyone want to vote for a new standard date format?
>
> YYYY-MM-DD
>
> In fact I believe the above is some standard now...
>
ISO 8601

>  I find myself more and more encountering this as input from systems  
> both of my own creation and from others...
>
> Now you have to do a little dance to get that into a convertable  
> string...or am I missing something
> input: e.g.
>
> 06/04/13 tab someData tab SomeMoreData etc
>
> set the itemdel to tab
> put item 1 of line 1 into tDate
> set the itemdel to "/"
> put "/" &  item 1 of tDate after tDate
> delete item 1 of tDate
> set the itemdel to tab
>
It's "fixed format" isn't it (in this case, YY/MM/DD), so could you just do

put line 1 into tLine
put char 4 to 8 of tLine & "/" & char 1 to 2 of tLine into item 1 of tLine


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



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From mark at maseurope.net  Fri Oct 14 18:26:41 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 23:26:41 +0100
Subject: New date format: YYYY-MM-DD
In-Reply-To: <43502DD7.3010406@tweedly.net>
References: <62C4FF87-6E06-4176-90E3-ADC384575833@hindu.org>
	<43502DD7.3010406@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <6D205FEE-18D2-4B8E-829C-6CF3F27E4AAE@maseurope.net>

I've seen quite a lot of YYYYMMDD about, what Sarah calls 'numeric  
date' in her DateTime library. I've been using it in all my apps  
internally for ages, since it's so easy to sort and search. I have a  
few of simple functions to convert back and forth, and identify  
weekends and such like, though I've got so used to it that for  
myself, I'm just as comfortable seeing 20051014 as 14/10/05...

Mark

On 14 Oct 2005, at 23:14, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Sivakatirswami wrote:
>
>
>> Anyone want to vote for a new standard date format?
>>
>> YYYY-MM-DD
>>
>> In fact I believe the above is some standard now...
>>
>>
> ISO 8601
>
>
>>  I find myself more and more encountering this as input from  
>> systems  both of my own creation and from others...
>>
>> Now you have to do a little dance to get that into a convertable   
>> string...or am I missing something
>> input: e.g.
>>
>> 06/04/13 tab someData tab SomeMoreData etc
>>
>> set the itemdel to tab
>> put item 1 of line 1 into tDate
>> set the itemdel to "/"
>> put "/" &  item 1 of tDate after tDate
>> delete item 1 of tDate
>> set the itemdel to tab
>>
>>
> It's "fixed format" isn't it (in this case, YY/MM/DD), so could you  
> just do
>
> put line 1 into tLine
> put char 4 to 8 of tLine & "/" & char 1 to 2 of tLine into item 1  
> of tLine
>
>
> -- 
> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date:  
> 12/10/2005
>
> _______________________________________________
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> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Fri Oct 14 18:44:53 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:44:53 -0700
Subject: Revolution back to HyperCard
In-Reply-To: <OF54119AF9.8472B5AC-ONC125709A.0045BAE4-C125709A.004588AF@deutsche-boerse
	.com>
References: <OF54119AF9.8472B5AC-ONC125709A.0045BAE4-C125709A.004588AF@deutsche-boerse
	.com>
Message-ID: <p06200701bf75e27e5d4a@[10.0.1.2]>

I have complained here before that the find stack is absurdly slow, 
in many instances. In HyperCard, command-f got you the find command. 
In Rev, command-f gets you the find stack.

To get the equivalent of hyperCard's command-f in Rev, type command-m 
to get the message box. Type 'find "whatever"' or 'find string 
"whatever"' or 'find whole "whatever'' and so on. Then hit return.

It's cumbersome, typing the quotation marks and stuff yourself.

Sarah suggested an improvement, which I use constantly.

put the following script in a button:

on mouseUp
   go to cd "Single Line" of stack "Message Box"
     put "find " & quote & quote into fld "Message Field" \
         of cd "Single Line" of stack "Message Box"
     put " select char 7 to 6 of fld " & quote & "Message Field" \
         & quote & " of cd " & quote & "Single Line" & quote & " of stack " \
         & quote & "Message Box" & quote into tCmd
     send tCmd to me in 30 ticks
end mouseUp


It would make sense to label the button "Find". Put copies of this 
button wherever you might want a hyperCard-like find. Instead of 
command-f, just click the button. The script types the command in the 
message box, including quotation marks, and places the cursor between 
them, so it's just type and go.

It searches all fields in the top stack, until it gets to the last 
card. You can keep hitting return to search for the next instance, 
until you find what you want. It starts with the current card, and 
stops when it gets to the last card in the stack. If you want to 
search all fields in the stack, type command-1 first, to go to the 
first card. It doesn't search button contents, scripts, etc., as far 
as I know.

The other possibility is to write your own "find" stack. The "find" 
command in a script is fast enough. The native Rev find stack is 
probably so slow because it tries to do too many things with one 
script. Several separate find scripts with more specialized purposes 
would likely be much faster. I keep meaning to write a stack like 
that, but never find the time. No doubt someone else already has, but 
I don't know who.

HTH


Tim

>What you describe there is the find stack.
>
>The find command simply takes you directly to the card that contains the
>information and hilites it with a rectangle...
>
>cheers
>Xavier
>
>use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 13/10/2005 09:39:10:
>
>>  How does the find function works? Does it only list the cards where the
>word
>>  searched is found?
>>  Thank you very much in advance for your cooperation.
>>
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  use-revolution mailing list
>>  use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>  subscription preferences:
>>  http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
>-----------------------------------------
>Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
>                                                          
>IMPORTANT MESSAGE
>
>Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
>International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
>this message.
>
>The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
>legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
>not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
>any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
>prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
>those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
>states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
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From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Fri Oct 14 18:53:19 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:53:19 -0400
Subject: New date format: YYYY-MM-DD
In-Reply-To: <6D205FEE-18D2-4B8E-829C-6CF3F27E4AAE@maseurope.net>
References: <62C4FF87-6E06-4176-90E3-ADC384575833@hindu.org>
	<43502DD7.3010406@tweedly.net>
	<6D205FEE-18D2-4B8E-829C-6CF3F27E4AAE@maseurope.net>
Message-ID: <B628E309-5031-430D-B248-593958D5B6B1@conncoll.edu>

But MySQL uses yyyy-mm-dd (which may be where Sivakatirswami is  
running into it?), and I think other SQLs do too. Not a bad thing to  
have Rev's dates conform to . . .

On the other hand, changing the documented form of dates sounds like  
a blueprint for a trail of broken apps.

Maybe a built-in date-conversion function, with different standards  
as arguments controlling the output? It would be *great* to have a  
smart function like that, that would take the whole range of formats  
various users might type into a field. (Anybody got one?)

Charles Hartman

On Oct 14, 2005, at 6:26 PM, Mark Smith wrote:

> I've seen quite a lot of YYYYMMDD about, what Sarah calls 'numeric  
> date' in her DateTime library. I've been using it in all my apps  
> internally for ages, since it's so easy to sort and search. I have  
> a few of simple functions to convert back and forth, and identify  
> weekends and such like, though I've got so used to it that for  
> myself, I'm just as comfortable seeing 20051014 as 14/10/05...
>
> Mark
>
> On 14 Oct 2005, at 23:14, Alex Tweedly wrote:
>
>
>> Sivakatirswami wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Anyone want to vote for a new standard date format?
>>>
>>> YYYY-MM-DD
>>>
>>> In fact I believe the above is some standard now...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ISO 8601
>>
>>
>>
>>>  I find myself more and more encountering this as input from  
>>> systems  both of my own creation and from others...
>>>
>>> Now you have to do a little dance to get that into a convertable   
>>> string...or am I missing something
>>> input: e.g.
>>>
>>> 06/04/13 tab someData tab SomeMoreData etc
>>>
>>> set the itemdel to tab
>>> put item 1 of line 1 into tDate
>>> set the itemdel to "/"
>>> put "/" &  item 1 of tDate after tDate
>>> delete item 1 of tDate
>>> set the itemdel to tab
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> It's "fixed format" isn't it (in this case, YY/MM/DD), so could  
>> you just do
>>
>> put line 1 into tLine
>> put char 4 to 8 of tLine & "/" & char 1 to 2 of tLine into item 1  
>> of tLine
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date:  
>> 12/10/2005
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
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From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 14 19:00:43 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:00:43 -0700
Subject: New date format: YYYY-MM-DD
In-Reply-To: <62C4FF87-6E06-4176-90E3-ADC384575833@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <BF7586AB.2F074%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

set the itemdel to "/"
put format("%s/%02s/%02s",(?20? & word 1 of item 3 of line 1), item 1 of
line 1, item 2 of line 1)
set the itemdel to tab

....might work in the new millenium

Jim Ault
Las Vegas



On 10/14/05 3:05 PM, "Sivakatirswami" <katir at hindu.org> wrote:

> Anyone want to vote for a new standard date format?
> 
> YYYY-MM-DD
> 
> In fact I believe the above is some standard now...
> 
>   I find myself more and more encountering this as input from systems
> both of my own creation and from others...
> 
> Now you have to do a little dance to get that into a convertable
> string...or am I missing something
> 
> input: e.g.
> 
> 06/04/13 tab someData tab SomeMoreData etc
> 
> set the itemdel to tab
> put item 1 of line 1 into tDate
> set the itemdel to "/"
> put "/" &  item 1 of tDate after tDate
> delete item 1 of tDate
> set the itemdel to tab
> 
> Sivakatirswami
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 14 19:02:30 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:02:30 -0700
Subject: New date format: YYYY-MM-DD
In-Reply-To: <62C4FF87-6E06-4176-90E3-ADC384575833@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <BF758716.2F076%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Whoops, forgot to use the dash separator
set the itemdel to "/"
put format("%s-%02s-%02s",(?20? & word 1 of item 3 of line 1), item 1 of
line 1, item 2 of line 1)
set the itemdel to tab

....might work in the new millenium

Jim Ault
Las Vegas



On 10/14/05 3:05 PM, "Sivakatirswami" <katir at hindu.org> wrote:

> Anyone want to vote for a new standard date format?
> 
> YYYY-MM-DD
> 
> In fact I believe the above is some standard now...
> 
>   I find myself more and more encountering this as input from systems
> both of my own creation and from others...
> 
> Now you have to do a little dance to get that into a convertable
> string...or am I missing something
> 
> input: e.g.
> 
> 06/04/13 tab someData tab SomeMoreData etc
> 
> set the itemdel to tab
> put item 1 of line 1 into tDate
> set the itemdel to "/"
> put "/" &  item 1 of tDate after tDate
> delete item 1 of tDate
> set the itemdel to tab
> 
> Sivakatirswami
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 14 19:22:47 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:22:47 -0700
Subject: Revolution back to HyperCard
In-Reply-To: <p06200701bf75e27e5d4a@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Agreed the Rev Find and Replace stack is not the same animal as the HC
Find...
however, it allows you to choose to search only fld text, and combine it
with the power of regular expressions.  For me the real power of this tool
is to use "script only" chkbox, then a regular expression and get a list of
all the script containers that match (even in multiple stacks), then dbl
click to open that script.
(or use the replace feature to do repair work without opening it, but I find
that rather dangerous)

This is much more of a developer tool for scripting and design, than a user
tool.
Remember the "ss" or searchscript command in HC?  Rev Find and Replace is
really much better and far faster, and more intuitive.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 10/14/05 3:44 PM, "Timothy Miller" <gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com>
wrote:

> I have complained here before that the find stack is absurdly slow,
> in many instances. In HyperCard, command-f got you the find command.
> In Rev, command-f gets you the find stack.
> 
> To get the equivalent of hyperCard's command-f in Rev, type command-m
> to get the message box. Type 'find "whatever"' or 'find string
> "whatever"' or 'find whole "whatever'' and so on. Then hit return.
> 
> It's cumbersome, typing the quotation marks and stuff yourself.
> 
> Sarah suggested an improvement, which I use constantly.
> 
> put the following script in a button:
> 
> on mouseUp
>    go to cd "Single Line" of stack "Message Box"
>      put "find " & quote & quote into fld "Message Field" \
>          of cd "Single Line" of stack "Message Box"
>      put " select char 7 to 6 of fld " & quote & "Message Field" \
>          & quote & " of cd " & quote & "Single Line" & quote & " of stack " \
>          & quote & "Message Box" & quote into tCmd
>      send tCmd to me in 30 ticks
> end mouseUp
> 
> 
> It would make sense to label the button "Find". Put copies of this
> button wherever you might want a hyperCard-like find. Instead of
> command-f, just click the button. The script types the command in the
> message box, including quotation marks, and places the cursor between
> them, so it's just type and go.
> 
> It searches all fields in the top stack, until it gets to the last
> card. You can keep hitting return to search for the next instance,
> until you find what you want. It starts with the current card, and
> stops when it gets to the last card in the stack. If you want to
> search all fields in the stack, type command-1 first, to go to the
> first card. It doesn't search button contents, scripts, etc., as far
> as I know.
> 
> The other possibility is to write your own "find" stack. The "find"
> command in a script is fast enough. The native Rev find stack is
> probably so slow because it tries to do too many things with one
> script. Several separate find scripts with more specialized purposes
> would likely be much faster. I keep meaning to write a stack like
> that, but never find the time. No doubt someone else already has, but
> I don't know who.
> 
> HTH
> 
> 
> Tim
> 
>> What you describe there is the find stack.
>> 
>> The find command simply takes you directly to the card that contains the
>> information and hilites it with a rectangle...
>> 
>> cheers
>> Xavier
>> 
>> use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 13/10/2005 09:39:10:
>> 
>>>  How does the find function works? Does it only list the cards where the
>> word
>>>  searched is found?
>>>  Thank you very much in advance for your cooperation.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  use-revolution mailing list
>>>  use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>  subscription preferences:
>>>  http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----------------------------------------
>> Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
>>                 
>> IMPORTANT MESSAGE
>> 
>> Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
>> International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
>> this message.
>> 
>> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
>> legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
>> not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
>> any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
>> prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
>> those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
>> states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
>> its affiliates or subsidiaries.
>> 
>> END OF DISCLAIMER
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From AbilityForms at aol.com  Fri Oct 14 19:57:33 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:57:33 EDT
Subject: New date format: YYYY-MM-DD
Message-ID: <220.a4701.30819fed@aol.com>

Hello,

Actually I use date format MM/DD/YYYY throughout my stacks. I use a script 
that converts an input of 11 to 1/1/(Current year). It also converts 0101 the 
same way or 011. The only time it asks what I want is when it wonders if I want 
January. That would be an input of 111 which could be Nov. 1 or Jan. 11. If 
there is a simpler way to convert the date into the MM/DD/YYYY format I'm very 
interested to learn it.

Joe
Orlando, Florida


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Fri Oct 14 21:02:19 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:02:19 -0700
Subject: New date format: YYYY-MM-DD
In-Reply-To: <62C4FF87-6E06-4176-90E3-ADC384575833@hindu.org>
References: <62C4FF87-6E06-4176-90E3-ADC384575833@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <p06230907bf760570ffce@[192.168.1.101]>

The numbers come right in line with the Dateitmes conversion...

>Anyone want to vote for a new standard date format?
>
>YYYY-MM-DD
>
>In fact I believe the above is some standard now...
>
>  I find myself more and more encountering this as input from systems 
>both of my own creation and from others...
>
>Now you have to do a little dance to get that into a convertable 
>string...or am I missing something
>
>input: e.g.
>
>06/04/13 tab someData tab SomeMoreData etc
>
>set the itemdel to tab
>put item 1 of line 1 into tDate
>set the itemdel to "/"
>put "/" &  item 1 of tDate after tDate
>delete item 1 of tDate
>set the itemdel to tab
>
>Sivakatirswami

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Fri Oct 14 21:04:38 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:04:38 -0700
Subject: Revolution back to HyperCard
In-Reply-To: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
References: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06200702bf75fc9179bd@[10.0.1.2]>

All true. But, in my experience, most of the time the find stack is 
too darned slow to be useful, even if I limit the search to field 
text-only, and even if I don't check "case sensitive" and so on.

Regarding hyperCard's SS (searchScript) I just did a quick test. 
You're right about searching a stack's scripts. I got 150 hits in a 
few seconds with Rev's find stack. That is indeed faster than SS, 
though SS was always fast enough.

OTOH, Rev's find stack took 90 seconds to find 43 hits in a 
field-text-only search. I previously reported the same search is 59 
times faster with a simple script using the "find" command. If I do a 
field text search using the "find" command in the msg box, hitting 
the return key repeatedly, I can find all 43 hits in less than ten 
seconds -- pretty much as fast as I can hit the return key.

That's why it seems to me that Rev's Find stack should include 
simpler, faster scripts for more specialized purposes, in addition to 
the current complex, versatile script. The user shouldn't have to 
choose between speed and versatility. The user should be able to 
choose either, as needed.

Cheers,



Tim



>Agreed the Rev Find and Replace stack is not the same animal as the HC
>Find...
>however, it allows you to choose to search only fld text, and combine it
>with the power of regular expressions.  For me the real power of this tool
>is to use "script only" chkbox, then a regular expression and get a list of
>all the script containers that match (even in multiple stacks), then dbl
>click to open that script.
>(or use the replace feature to do repair work without opening it, but I find
>that rather dangerous)
>
>This is much more of a developer tool for scripting and design, than a user
>tool.
>Remember the "ss" or searchscript command in HC?  Rev Find and Replace is
>really much better and far faster, and more intuitive.
>
>Jim Ault
>Las Vegas
>
>
>On 10/14/05 3:44 PM, "Timothy Miller" <gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com>
>wrote:
>
>>  I have complained here before that the find stack is absurdly slow,
>>  in many instances. In HyperCard, command-f got you the find command.
>>  In Rev, command-f gets you the find stack.
>>
>>  To get the equivalent of hyperCard's command-f in Rev, type command-m
>>  to get the message box. Type 'find "whatever"' or 'find string
>  > "whatever"' or 'find whole "whatever'' and so on. Then hit return.
>>
>>  It's cumbersome, typing the quotation marks and stuff yourself.
>>
>>  Sarah suggested an improvement, which I use constantly.
>>
>>  put the following script in a button:
>>
>>  on mouseUp
>>     go to cd "Single Line" of stack "Message Box"
>>       put "find " & quote & quote into fld "Message Field" \
>>           of cd "Single Line" of stack "Message Box"
>>       put " select char 7 to 6 of fld " & quote & "Message Field" \
>>           & quote & " of cd " & quote & "Single Line" & quote & " 
>>of stack " \
>>           & quote & "Message Box" & quote into tCmd
>>       send tCmd to me in 30 ticks
>>  end mouseUp
>>
>>
>>  It would make sense to label the button "Find". Put copies of this
>>  button wherever you might want a hyperCard-like find. Instead of
>>  command-f, just click the button. The script types the command in the
>>  message box, including quotation marks, and places the cursor between
>>  them, so it's just type and go.
>>
>>  It searches all fields in the top stack, until it gets to the last
>>  card. You can keep hitting return to search for the next instance,
>>  until you find what you want. It starts with the current card, and
>>  stops when it gets to the last card in the stack. If you want to
>>  search all fields in the stack, type command-1 first, to go to the
>>  first card. It doesn't search button contents, scripts, etc., as far
>>  as I know.
>>
>>  The other possibility is to write your own "find" stack. The "find"
>>  command in a script is fast enough. The native Rev find stack is
>>  probably so slow because it tries to do too many things with one
>>  script. Several separate find scripts with more specialized purposes
>  > would likely be much faster. I keep meaning to write a stack like
>>  that, but never find the time. No doubt someone else already has, but
>>  I don't know who.
>>
>>  HTH
>>
>>
>>  Tim
>>
>>>  What you describe there is the find stack.
>>>
>>>  The find command simply takes you directly to the card that contains the
>>>  information and hilites it with a rectangle...
>>>
>>>  cheers
>>>  Xavier
>>>
>>>  use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 13/10/2005 09:39:10:
>>>
>>>>   How does the find function works? Does it only list the cards where the
>>>  word
>>>>   searched is found?
>>>>   Thank you very much in advance for your cooperation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>>   use-revolution mailing list
>>>>   use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>   Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>   subscription preferences:
>>>>   http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  -----------------------------------------
>>>  Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
>>>                
>>>  IMPORTANT MESSAGE
>>>
>>>  Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
>>>  International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
>>>  this message.
>>>
>>>  The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
>>>  legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
>>>  not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
>>>  any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
>>>  prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
>>>  those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
>>>  states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
>>>  its affiliates or subsidiaries.
>>>
>>>  END OF DISCLAIMER
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  use-revolution mailing list
>>>  use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>  subscription preferences:
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>>  _______________________________________________
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>>  use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
>>  preferences:
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From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct 14 21:10:44 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:10:44 -0700
Subject: Revolution back to HyperCard
In-Reply-To: <p06200702bf75fc9179bd@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
	<p06200702bf75fc9179bd@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <43505714.1090205@fourthworld.com>

Timothy Miller wrote:
> Regarding hyperCard's SS (searchScript) I just did a quick test. You're 
> right about searching a stack's scripts. I got 150 hits in a few seconds 
> with Rev's find stack. That is indeed faster than SS, though SS was 
> always fast enough.
> 
> OTOH, Rev's find stack took 90 seconds to find 43 hits in a 
> field-text-only search. I previously reported the same search is 59 
> times faster with a simple script using the "find" command. If I do a 
> field text search using the "find" command in the msg box, hitting the 
> return key repeatedly, I can find all 43 hits in less than ten seconds 
> -- pretty much as fast as I can hit the return key.

What does each of these scripts do?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Oct 14 21:17:30 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 20:17:30 -0500
Subject: New date format: YYYY-MM-DD
In-Reply-To: <p06230907bf760570ffce@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <BF75C2DA.2DC2C%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/14/05 8:02 PM, "Stephen Barncard" <stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com>
wrote:

>> Anyone want to vote for a new standard date format?
>> 
>> YYYY-MM-DD
>
> The numbers come right in line with the Dateitmes conversion...

Yes, but unfortunately the dateItems aren't zero-padded, so for May 5, 2005
you get:

   2005,5,5

instead of 

  2005,05,05

I'd love to see an additional "ISO" conversion format:

  convert tDate to ISO date
  convert tTime to ISO time

Mark Waddingham - any chance of getting this into 2.7?

:-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com





From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Oct 14 21:24:37 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 20:24:37 -0500
Subject: New date format: YYYY-MM-DD
In-Reply-To: <B628E309-5031-430D-B248-593958D5B6B1@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <BF75C485.2DC2F%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/14/05 5:53 PM, "Charles Hartman" <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu> wrote:

> Maybe a built-in date-conversion function, with different standards
> as arguments controlling the output? It would be *great* to have a
> smart function like that, that would take the whole range of formats
> various users might type into a field. (Anybody got one?)

Here you go! The function below has more comments than any other function
I've written <grin>.

Have fun!


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



WATCH FOR LINE WRAPS!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
--| FUNCTION: stsFormattedDate
--|
--| Author:   Ken Ray
--| Version:  2.0
--| Created:  8/2/04
--| Last Mod: 11/15/04
--| Requires: --
--|
--| Formats an incoming date according to a variety of date patterns and
--| outputs the
--| result. 
--|
--| Parameters:
--|     <pDate>: The date to be formatted. Must be a date or date/time
--|           combination, or empty. If empty, uses the current date and
--|           default 2AM time if time is requested in the pattern.
--|     <pFormat>: The pattern to use to format the incoming date. The
--|           following patterns are available where "M" is used for the
--|           month, "D" for the day, "Y" for the year, "W" for the weekday
--|           name, "H" for hours, "P" for AM/PM, "N" for minutes, "S" for
--|           seconds, and "G" for GMT calculation, as follows:
--|                M = month number, no leading zeroes (1-12)
--|                MM = month number, with leading zeroes (01-12)
--|                MMM = month name, abbreviated (Jan - Dec)
--|                MMMM = month name, long (January - December)
--|                D = day number, no leading zeroes (1-31)
--|                DD = day number, with leading zeroes (01-31)
--|                W = weekday name, single letter (S/M/T/W/t/F/s)
--|                WW = weekday name, shortest (Su/M/Tu/W/Th/F/Sa)
--|                WWW = weekday name, abbreviated (Sun/Mon/Tue/Wed/Thu/
--|                   Fri/Sat)
--|                WWWW = weekday name, long (Sunday/Monday/Tuesday/etc.)
--|                YY = two-digit year (00-99)
--|                YYYY = four digit year (1970-2004)
--|                H = hours, no leading zeroes, 12 hour format (1-12)
--|                HH = hours, leading zeroes, 12 hour format (01-12)
--|                HHH = hours, no leading zeroes, 24 hour format (1-23)
--|                HHHH = hours, leading zeroes, 24 hour format (01-23)
--|                HHHHH = military time format (0000 - 2359)
--|                P = AM/PM, single character, lower case (a/p)
--|                PP = AM/PM, single character, upper case (A/P)
--|                PPP = AM/PM, two characters, lower case (am/pm)
--|                PPPP = AM/PM, two characters, upper case (AM/PM)
--|                N = minutes, no leading zeroes (0-59)
--|                NN = minutes, leading zeroes (00-59)
--|                S = seconds, no leading zeroes (0-59)
--|                SS = seconds, leading zeroes (00-59)
--|                G = Calculation based on GMT (-1100 to +1100)
--|     <pUseBrackets>: Determines whether or not the format needs to have
--|           brackets surrounding each part of the pattern. If true, it
--|           requires that all patterns are surrounded by square brackets,
--|           and allows the letters used in the pattern (MDYWHNSGP) to be
--|           used as part of the return string that is *not* part of the
--|           pattern (for example "GMT" as a string). If false, pattern
--|           letters are replaced by the corresponding date parts in the
--|           returned string (so it assumes that characters that are not
--|           part of the pattern are not letters, but symbols).
--|
--| Examples:
--|    MM/DD/YYYY  -> 04/07/2004
--|    WWW, MMM D YYYY  -> Mon, Aug 2 2004
--|    WWW, MMM D YYYY G  --> Mon, Aug 2 2004 -0500
--|    [WWW],[MMM] [D] [YYYY] [G] GMT  --> Mon, Aug 2 2004 -0500 GMT
----------------------------------------------------------------------
function stsFormattedDate pDate,pFormat,pUseBrackets
  if (pDate = "") or (pDate = "Now") then put the date && \
    the long time into pDate
  if (pFormat = "") then put "MM/DD/YYYY" into pFormat
  if isNumber(word -1 of pDate) and (word -1 of pDate <=2359) then
    -- date and military time sent in, just needs a colon between hour
    -- and minute for it to be converted
    put ":" before char -2 of pDate
  end if
  -- Check for am/pm without preceding space
  put offset("am",pDate) into tLoc
  if (tLoc <> 0) and (char (tLoc-1) of pDate <> " ") then put " " before
char tLoc of pDate
  put offset("pm",pDate) into tLoc
  if (tLoc <> 0) and (char (tLoc-1) of pDate <> " ") then put " " before
char tLoc of pDate
  
  put ((pUseBrackets <> "") and (pUseBrackets <> "false")) into pUseBrackets
  put pDate into tOrigDate
  
  convert pDate to dateItems
  if (pDate is "invalid date") or (("69" is not in tOrigDate) and (item 1 of
pDate="1969")) then
    return "invalid date"
  end if
  put item 1 of pDate into tYear
  put item 2 of pDate into tMonthNum
  put item 3 of pDate into tDayNum
  put item 4 of pDate into tHour
  put item 5 of pDate into tMinute
  put item 6 of pDate into tSecond
  put item 7 of pDate into tWeekdayNum
  put word -1 of the internet date into G
  set the numberFormat to "00"
  
  if pUseBrackets then
    put "[MMMM],[MMM],[MM],[M],[WWWW],[WWW],[WW],[W],[DD],[D],[YYYY]," & \
      "[YY],[HHHHH],[HHHH],[HHH],[HH],[H],[PPPP],[PPP],[PP],[P],[NN]," & \
      "[N],[SS],[S],[G]" into tFormatWords
  else
    put "MMMM,MMM,MM,M,WWWW,WWW,WW,W,DD,D,YYYY," & \
      "YY,HHHHH,HHHH,HHH,HH,H,PPPP,PPP,PP,P,NN,N,SS,S,G" into tFormatWords
  end if
  put "!@#$%^&*()_+{}|:'<>?~`-=[]" into tReplaceChars
  repeat with x = 1 to the number of items of tFormatWords
    replace (item x of tFormatWords) with "[[[" & char x of tReplaceChars &
"]]]]" in pFormat
  end repeat
  
  put tYear into YYYY
  put char -2 to -1 of tYear into YY
  
  put tMonthNum into M
  put (tMonthNum+0) into MM
  put line tMonthNum of the abbreviated monthNames into MMM
  put line tMonthNum of the long monthNames into MMMM
  
  put tDayNum into D
  put (tDayNum+0) into DD
  
  put char tWeekDayNum of "SMTWtFs" into W
  put item tWeekDayNum of "S,M,Tu,W,Th,F,Sa" into WW
  put line tWeekDayNum of the abbreviated weekdayNames into WWW
  put line tWeekDayNum of the long weekdayNames into WWWW
  
  put tHour into HHH
  put (tHour+0) into HHHH
  if tHour <=12 then
    put tHour into H
    put "a" into P
    put "A" into PP
    put "am" into PPP
    put "AM" into PPPP
  else
    put tHour-12 into H
    if H < 10 then
      delete char 1 of H  -- remove leading 0
    end if
    put "p" into P
    put "P" into PP
    put "pm" into PPP
    put "PM" into PPPP
  end if
  put (H+0) into HH
  
  put tMinute into N
  put (tMinute+0) into NN
  
  put HHHH & NN into HHHHH
  
  put tSecond into S
  put (tSecond+0) into SS
  
  repeat with x = 1 to the number of items of tFormatWords
    if pUseBrackets then
      local tTemp
      get matchText(item x of tFormatWords,"\[(.*?)\]",tTemp)
      do "put" && tTemp && "into tVal"
    else
      do "put" && (item x of tFormatWords) && "into tVal"
    end if
    replace "[[[" & char x of tReplaceChars & "]]]]"  with tVal in pFormat
  end repeat
  
  return pFormat
end stsFormattedDate



From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Oct 14 22:03:09 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 03:03:09 +0100
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <p06230904bf7582b038ac@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <OF35B56E59.B560395E-ONC125709A.00264755-C125709A.00281EC5@deutsche-boerse	.com>
	<p06230904bf7582b038ac@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <4350635D.2010005@tweedly.net>

Stephen Barncard wrote:

>> TAOO! i just wished i knew how to get people intersted in 
>> collaborating in
>> this open source manner and project because so far that seems nearly
>> impossible in this rev market...
>
>
> ???
> Hmmmm... I have a folder full of 'open source' freely given code for 
> Rev --  libraries and examples..... this doesn't count?

I think it's an interesting characteristic of Rev - there is a huge 
amount freely given "open source" Rev stacks.

But, as far as I know, there have been few examples of successful, 
completed *collaborative* open source developments in Rev. All the 
stacks I can think of have been developed and donated by individuals (of 
course, they can take ideas from previous stacks, or build on top of 
previous stacks, they may often have other Revvers helping with Beta 
test, etc.) - but as far as I've seen, there haven't been any highly 
visible multi-developer efforts.

It may be (puts on 'optimist' hat) that Rev is so much more productive 
that an individual can do so much more ....
or it may be (puts on 'pessimist' hat) that the lack of a RCS / CVS / 
subversion equivalent makes multi-developer efforts so much harder in 
Rev than in other languages that it just hasn't happened.

If I've forgotten something stupid, or if some efforts have been 
multi-developer and I just didn't know, I'd be happy to be corrected.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/2005



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Oct 14 22:11:05 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 04:11:05 +0200
Subject: Hello science in TAOO
In-Reply-To: <BF758475.2DBEF%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <20051015014100.B2E33824FD0@mail.runrev.com>

Ken

Yes that's a standalone data-group. Each card is an object within an Objects
related background.

For an example of the libraries go to
http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=19

that's the main libraries that are currently released.

I stopped making updates because of the damn problem with lowercase names
being saved when I click on save all (im not in control of that and have yet
to test it again with rev 2.6.1 after re-re-renaming all my stacks again
across some 4 or 5 folders...)...

if you want to look at the whole libraries (BUT It's a work in progress and
will present errors - for Mac users above all - a path auto-updater is
nearly finished) look at

http://monsieurx.com/hyper/xos

you will see a simple breakdown of the files and folders... However this is
a month old version with some presets that will cause trouble. I'll try to
release something new later today in a compressed zip that is more
manageable and without the bugs I recently encountered when I transferred
the lot to a new drive causing a pletoria of "no drive dialog" errors...

Im looking forward to scrapping the phpnuke site in favor of a wiki server
somtime soon and make things easier...

lots to do as you can imagine ;)

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ray
> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 10:51 PM
> To: Use Revolution List
> Subject: Re: Hello science in TAOO
> 
> On 10/14/05 1:27 PM, "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:
> 
> > I just can't do a simpler example than this which I 
> prepared long ago, 
> > based on yahoo encyclopedia data, so maybe this will show 
> TAOO better 
> > on a meta-flat level (only inter-relational lookups)...
> > 
> > http://monsieurx.com/hyper/xos/Groups/Science.rev
> 
> 
> n 10/14/05 1:13 PM, "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:
> 
> > it's a set of libraries...
> > 
> > each naturally named as the name of the object they manage.
> > 
> > Masters usually have a plural name of object's manager's name (like 
> > Objects masters or Events)....
> 
> 
> I took a quick look at Science.rev, and there aren't any 
> libraries, or substacks, so I'm confused... is that what you 
> meant by "meta-flat level (only inter-relational lookups)"? 
> (Sorry, but that didn't mean much to
> me...)
> 
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Fri Oct 14 22:54:07 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:54:07 -0700
Subject: New date format: YYYY-MM-DD
In-Reply-To: <BF75C2DA.2DC2C%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF75C2DA.2DC2C%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <p06230908bf761f091ba3@[192.168.1.101]>

ok, Ken then

function  sqbDateTime
   get the long time
   convert it to dateitems
   set the numberformat to "00"
   return?
   (item 1 of it)+0 & "-" & (item 2 of it)+0 & "-" & (item 3 of it)+0  &&?
   (item 4 of it)+0 & ":" & (item 5 of it)+0 & ":" & (item 6 of it)+0
end  sqbDateTime

This returns the Date Time format that MySQL likes for a dateTime field:

2005-10-14 23:34:15





>On 10/14/05 8:02 PM, "Stephen Barncard" <stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com>
>wrote:
>
>>>  Anyone want to vote for a new standard date format?
>>>
>>>  YYYY-MM-DD
>>
>>  The numbers come right in line with the Dateitmes conversion...
>
>Yes, but unfortunately the dateItems aren't zero-padded, so for May 5, 2005
>you get:
>
>    2005,5,5
>
>instead of
>
>   2005,05,05
>
>I'd love to see an additional "ISO" conversion format:
>
>   convert tDate to ISO date
>   convert tTime to ISO time
>
>Mark Waddingham - any chance of getting this into 2.7?
>
>:-)
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software
>Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe 
>and manage your subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -

From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Fri Oct 14 22:56:13 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:56:13 -0700
Subject: New date format: YYYY-MM-DD
In-Reply-To: <BF75C485.2DC2F%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF75C485.2DC2F%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <p06230909bf762007572d@[192.168.1.101]>

whoa. That's incredible, Ken. A bit more versatile than my puny "routine"!

sqb

>
>Here you go! The function below has more comments than any other function
>I've written <grin>.
>
>Have fun!
>
>Ken Ray

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Oct 14 23:38:46 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 20:38:46 -0700
Subject: Simplifying the TAOO Explanation
Message-ID: <F5ABA01E-6337-40A7-A661-BA0537D8C6BF@danshafer.com>

Xavier........

> copy paste... done... no programming
> involved... Is that OOP reuse or what?

That's where one disconnect is for me. Copy-paste-done is not OO  
programming or reuse. OO programming and reuse would be more like  
create-subclass-specialize...done. In a copy-paste world if I change  
the original object, I have to find all of the places I've deployed  
copies of this group and change all of them as well. Or did I miss  
something again?

> if it is
> not clear to you or many others, I must be doing something wrong...  
> but if I
> really enjoy it's benefits since 15 years, how can I be so wrong?

It is not necessarily that you are wrong, only that you are perhaps  
so close to it that you can no longer simplify an explanation of it.

Let's try a thought experiment. Let's assume I've created a new group  
that has a button, a text field, and an option menu. The option menu  
contains as its entries the colors "red", "blue" and "orange." It has  
a script that changes the backcolor of the button when it is clicked.  
The button has a script that puts its backcolor into the field.  
Pretty simple and admittedly useless group. Assume further that it  
has other functions and capabilities beyond those on which we are  
focused.

We'll call this group colorbuttongroup. It exists on card 1 of my  
stack and its backgroundbehavior is off. On card 2 of this same  
stack, I'd like a control similar to colorbuttongroup except that  
this one that deals with and reports the forecolor of the button. In  
Smalltalk or some other OO environment, I'd subclass colorbuttongroup  
and override the two methods that deal with the color. How would I do  
this in TAOO in a reusable way so that if I ever change some other  
behavior of the colorbuttongroup object in the future, the behavior  
of the newly created group will also be modified but without any  
effort on my part and without losing the specialized behavior of the  
overridden methods?

That's about as simple an example as I can make, I think, to  
illustrate how I try to think of TAOO and find myself frustratedly  
unable to do so.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Oct 14 23:59:28 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 20:59:28 -0700
Subject: Hello science in TAOO
In-Reply-To: <20051014175727.3C5D6824F30@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051014175727.3C5D6824F30@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <660109FF-0653-469D-8296-8E7D1929F5F1@danshafer.com>

Leaving aside for the moment the fact that there's a lot in this demo  
that just doesn't work, the question I'd ask you to answer is: where,  
specifically, is TAOO in all of this? Show me the library (there  
isn't one as far as I can tell) or the code or the objects that  
comprise TAOO and explain how their availability made this project  
easier or better or faster or more reusable.


On Oct 14, 2005, at 11:27 AM, MisterX wrote:

> gals and guys,
>
> I just can't do a simpler example than this which I prepared long  
> ago, based
> on yahoo encyclopedia data, so maybe this will show TAOO better on a
> meta-flat level (only inter-relational lookups)...
>
> http://monsieurx.com/hyper/xos/Groups/Science.rev
>
> 600KBs
>
> Please see the similarity with Logshark, Discretebrowser (without  
> the index)
> or the TAOO documentation (same stack actually)...
>
> only the name of the object changes... that's the natural beauty of  
> it in
> "context" with the universe of data you may have...
>
> it's a way to see science in a limited way... but it already does  
> more than
> a simple hello world (which it can't do simpler than rev)...
>
> showmsg "hello world" -- requires the taoo download (5000+ script  
> lines) +
> runrev ;)
>
> Yes, I know some menus may not work... it's made on a pc too in  
> case you
> wondered why it looks busy or pc like... don?t mind the looks or rev
> incompatibilities for crossplatform issues please...
>
> cheers
> Xavier
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From katir at hindu.org  Sat Oct 15 00:41:29 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:41:29 -1000
Subject: New date format: YYYY-MM-DD
In-Reply-To: <43502DD7.3010406@tweedly.net>
References: <62C4FF87-6E06-4176-90E3-ADC384575833@hindu.org>
	<43502DD7.3010406@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <303C70AC-7CFB-4BEE-8131-5EDE873D2C4C@hindu.org>


On Oct 14, 2005, at 12:14 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> put line 1 into tLine
> put char 4 to 8 of tLine & "/" & char 1 to 2 of tLine into item 1  
> of tLine

Oh. excellent. that's lovely and terse...  I'll use it right now..

But, still,  Ken has articulated it well:

=====
"I'd love to see an additional "ISO" conversion format:

   convert tDate to ISO date
   convert tTime to ISO time

Mark Waddingham - any chance of getting this into 2.7?"
====

and vice versa

convert [[some ISO date string]] to long date

convert "2006/12/23" to long date


Sivakatirswami




From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Oct 15 01:10:33 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:10:33 -0500
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO [|Not so Short]
In-Reply-To: <20051014174353.921BB825086@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051014174353.921BB825086@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <43508F49.8060203@chipp.com>

Good marketing people tell me:

"Never use platitudes in your pitch-- make sure your competitor(s) 
cannot make the same claim"

Xavier, based on that, I still don't understand your product as it could 
be referencing 100 other products as well.

MisterX wrote:

> There's lots to be done still but the goal remains: idea to GUI and
> information at your fingertips in the increasing more capable and least
> effort possible..

Now, that could be from:

RealBasic
Flash
.NET
others as well. Doesn't tell me anything.

Here's something that would get me interested:

"TAOO 3D is a native 3D rendering library for Runtime Revolution which 
lets developers create onscreen 3D renderings and installs in seconds. 
No prior knowledge of matrix theory is necessary (IOW, it's easy to 
use;-) Check out our great 5 minute tutorial at www.taoo3d.com."

Then down below you could mention:

The TAOO 3D library is based upon the TAOO open source object model. For 
more information on it, please see: www.taoo.com.

You see, TAOO by itself, isn't that interesting. It's what you can do 
with it. The well-known problem with middle-ware is it's a product not 
targeted at specific solutions. The fix is to create a solution with it, 
then market the solution. After a few tries, more people will come to 
understand what you're doing (or not), but who cares? As long as they 
use the product.

best,

Chipp


From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Sat Oct 15 01:31:31 2005
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 13:31:31 +0800
Subject: problem about insert
In-Reply-To: <434DE2C7.9070204@netgalileo.com>
References: <434DE2C7.9070204@netgalileo.com>
Message-ID: <f73a98160510142231y5ca1aaabwd8f5550de090e39f@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/13/05, Supote Songthammawat <supote.songthammawat at netgalileo.com>
wrote:
>
> Dear Sir,
>
> I have some problem about insert data by sql into database. Why
> I can't not to insert into database? When I press button save it will
> occur :
>
> put tNewEnPersonSysIds into tNewPersonSysIds
> put fld "FirstName" into tFirstName
> put fld "LastName" into tLastName
> put fld "MiddleName" into tMiddleName
> put text of fld "DateofBirth" into tDateofBirth
> put 1 into tPersonTitleCode
> put the hilitedButtonName of group "Identification" into tGenderCode
> put 1 into tDeceasedIndicator
> put 1 into tOrganDonorIndicator
> put 1 into tMultipleBirthIndicator
>
> put tNewPersonSysIds, tFirstName, tLastName, tMiddleName, tDateofBirth,
> tPersonTitleCode, \
> tGenderCode, tDeceasedIndicator, tOrganDonorIndicator,
> tMultipleBirthIndicator into tPersonEntTbl
>
> put "INSERT INTO PERSON_TABLE(personSysID, firstName, lastName, " \
> && "middleName, dateOfBirth, personTitleCode, genderCode,
> deceasedIndicator, " \
> && "organDonorIndicator, multipleBirthIndicator) VALUES
> ("&tPersonEntTbl&")" into tSql
>
> revExecuteSQL tID, tSql
>
> I think I must convert to unidecode before insert , correct?
> Please suggest me to solve this problem. Thank you very much.
> Urgently!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I see you have asked this question twice with no response so I will have a
guess.

Your variable tPersonEntTbl seems to store data like this:
00001,John,Witherspoon,Cecil,01/11/39, etc etc

I think for an INSERT command to work in MySQL you need

"00001","John","Witherspoon","Cecil","01/11/39","<data>","<data>",etc

Getting those quotes the right place can be very tricky

HTH


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Oct 15 02:32:58 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 08:32:58 +0200
Subject: Hello science in TAOO
In-Reply-To: <660109FF-0653-469D-8296-8E7D1929F5F1@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <20051015060251.AD575825110@mail.runrev.com>

let's start with the components:

the menubar:
this is managed by the GIM stack 
http://monsieurx.com/hyper/xos/Managers/GIM.rev
Once active, the stack can be resized no problem
(TAOO auto-loads GIM so you don?t have to do this
activate business in general). Rev shares many features which TAOO has since
old hypercard times!

Edit the group's script and you will see

on doresize
  MGMResizeMenuGroup the long name of me
end doresize

This should be obviously a library call...

Let's select the objects group...
This is the group containing the objects or records of the science stack
(stack of objects=group of objects).

See the object menu, group menu... 

If you look at the objects bg group's script you will see the library that
is actually split into 

http://monsieurx.com/hyper/xos/Masters/Objects.rev
http://monsieurx.com/hyper/xos/Masters/Groups.rev
http://monsieurx.com/hyper/xos/Masters/Categories.rev
http://monsieurx.com/hyper/xos/Managers/Keywords.rev

But in this stack all these components were put into the objects bg script
with the strict minimum to show also portability into a standalone example -
I haven't included the GIM library since you can download this one apart
now. There used to be a huge geometry script before.

Normally (in the finished version), this menu will just have the handler 
doobjectmenu, other menus would have dofilemenu, doeditmenu, etc...

For "this" example, you have the stack's objects in raw state (each control
has it's script) so that the stack can work without the libraries.

--

There's a second level many miss which is the magic in TAOO GUI
abstraction...

click on the content tab...

This tab could be named different things such as:
- script
- description
- contacts
- sales

Like the categories group (for which there is a category library), you could
take that group into another stack's gui and paste it into the "view" group
of the object. The view group is what is below the tabmenu "view". This tab
menu can be turned into a field menu (like the index) that displays other
groups (many of my stacks and plugin's options now have this (hotkeyno2,
breakpointno2, etc...)

If you open the Taoo Documentation stack, 

http://monsieurx.com/hyper/xos/Documentation/XOSDocumentation.rev

you will see the same interface. What changed? The stack name... And the
label field left of the Objects button (Title, Name, City: etc...)...
Everything else is unchanged script wise... I have other stacks like it such
as contacts, cities, companies, etc... 

So as a database or an ebook (meta stuff), it's a standard "explorer"
interface (I built this interface before I ever saw windows!) Changing the
data-source such as using the stack as a front end for an sql or xml
database is in the works - that seems less obvious to me for the moment...

cheers
Xavier
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Shafer [mailto:revdan at danshafer.com] 
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 5:59 AM
> To: x at monsieurx.com; How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Hello science in TAOO
> 
> Leaving aside for the moment the fact that there's a lot in 
> this demo that just doesn't work, the question I'd ask you to 
> answer is: where, specifically, is TAOO in all of this? Show 
> me the library (there isn't one as far as I can tell) or the 
> code or the objects that comprise TAOO and explain how their 
> availability made this project easier or better or faster or 
> more reusable.
> 
> 
> On Oct 14, 2005, at 11:27 AM, MisterX wrote:
> 
> > gals and guys,
> >
> > I just can't do a simpler example than this which I 
> prepared long ago, 
> > based on yahoo encyclopedia data, so maybe this will show 
> TAOO better 
> > on a meta-flat level (only inter-relational lookups)...
> >
> > http://monsieurx.com/hyper/xos/Groups/Science.rev
> >
> > 600KBs
> >
> > Please see the similarity with Logshark, Discretebrowser 
> (without the 
> > index) or the TAOO documentation (same stack actually)...
> >
> > only the name of the object changes... that's the natural 
> beauty of it 
> > in "context" with the universe of data you may have...
> >
> > it's a way to see science in a limited way... but it 
> already does more 
> > than a simple hello world (which it can't do simpler than rev)...
> >
> > showmsg "hello world" -- requires the taoo download (5000+ script
> > lines) +
> > runrev ;)
> >
> > Yes, I know some menus may not work... it's made on a pc 
> too in case 
> > you wondered why it looks busy or pc like... don?t mind the 
> looks or 
> > rev incompatibilities for crossplatform issues please...
> >
> > cheers
> > Xavier
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> 
> 
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
> http://www.shafermedia.com
> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>  From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
> 
> 



From shaosean at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 15 02:33:06 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 02:33:06 -0400
Subject: [FIX] libSmtp 2.5.2 bugfix (apologies to the list members)
Message-ID: <BAY105-F30D6183673D3C0A6F13F4DC37C0@phx.gbl>

Sorry to post this to the mailing list, but I figure that the majority of 
the SMTP library users are subscribed.

In the "smtpClose" handler the following code is wrong:
  if (paramCount() = 1) AND (param(1) is not empty) then
    put param(1) into tCallbackMessage
    put param(2) into tCallbackTarget
  end if

Replace the line:
    put param(2) into tCallbackTarget
with:
    put the long id of the target into tCallbackTarget

I'll have the download fixed by Monday. Again, sorry to clutter the mailing 
list with this.

-Sean ^_^
www.shaosean.tk

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Oct 15 03:22:09 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:22:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <434F79F9.3010807@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510142348230.22166-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> The languages we bring to the table can always be replaced.  But can our
> experience/talents/creativity?

Okay, Richard, you trolled me back into the gym.

I honestly was going to try to just sit back and let everybody think that
EITHER as a pointey-headed snob OR a whatever, that I'd been properly
shown the errors of my ways... but then, you make my point precisely:

This is EXACTLY what I mean by my opposition to wizards-this, themes-that.

I won't bore you all with the numerous psychological studies done on the
effects of "attractiveness", that even infants will go for the pretty over
the substantive; that Stanford has for a number of years been exploring
the effects of the computer as a persuasive agent such that it's been
found that human beings instinctively trust whatever a computer gives them
as truth, honesty, QUALITY, and bias-free when compared to comparable
offerings from  a fellow human being.  And that software developers with a
conscious  really aught to take a moment to think about how they may well
be advancing the computer as a persuasive agent.  And that, increasingly,
perhaps because of the very computer technologies we all espouse and
advance, the general public is increasingly unable to make the distinction
between information and knowledge, that they confuse the two and see them
as one: the information that is presented as sound-bytes and factoids
presented in an isolated vacuum...

That this is a problem.

It is well and fine to state that educators should do more to prepare
their students in terms of current and real-world skills (as I DO with
respect to educators and computer technologies).  It is another to mock
altogether the role of the university as an entity that prepares people
not only for today, but for the tomorrow that doesn't yet exist.

I have begun reading Paul Goodman's 1962 _The Community of Scholars_.  He
makes a number of cogent points and predictions (now reality) regarding
higher education, particularly in the U.S.

Teaching people "job skills", in computer science, means giving them MS
certification.  As you say, Richard, what does this really buy them?

(and, of course, this isn't really directed at Richard, but he dragged me
back in...)

It's fine if all we want to do is get them jobs now.  But, who will
design the language(s) of tomorrow?  Not universities.  And not software
developers who justify the dumbing-down of users of computer technologies.

These concepts are all-but incomprehensible to likely most of the people
on this list, people for whom the computer is an understood entity.  But
for everyone else, computer technologies are akin to magic -- the god who
is suddenly, incomprehensibly, unhappy (as when a computer crashes); one
who is  suddenly incooperative when we seek its divine information (such
as how to use the different search engines).

The more that we actively discourage 'thinking outside of the box' (or
even thinking at all), the more we damn ourselves to the present and its
limitations.

Wearing flame-retardant armour...

Judy



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sat Oct 15 04:17:12 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 01:17:12 -0700
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510142348230.22166-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <BF760918.22CE4%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Judy Perry  wrote:

> The more that we actively discourage 'thinking outside of the box' (or
> even thinking at all), the more we damn ourselves to the present and its
> limitations.

IMO, the use of templates/themes is not an attempt to discourage thinking
outside the box.  It is an attempt to illuminate the fact that there is, in
fact, a box present, which has certain properties and rules, and one must
learn the limitations of the box before one can learn to think outside it.

What you may see as "dumbing down", others may see as education.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Oct 15 04:22:50 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:22:50 +0200
Subject: AJAX... and Ruby on Rails are no match for Rev unplugged!
In-Reply-To: <43508F49.8060203@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <20051015075241.88D4382512E@mail.runrev.com>

After reading some comments on ruby on rails

it's not just the difference in language niceties compared to
their parent languages that makes them preferable to rev for
those guys...

It's also the fact that they make web-development easier.

With the help of the old cgi system in metacard, I wrote an
html tagging system to create forms and web pages based on 
dynamic content retrieved with shell calls encapsulated in a
modular mt file. 

opentable
closetable

openform
writebutton

etc...

pulling information further from rev stacks is not hard and
it's all in xtalk. In the long run it was far easier to make
and use MC's guis... Web things are, well, not so dynamic
and interaction friendly imoho...

If we wrote a cms system like tiki wiki in a revplayer stack,
put it's contents and script updates into a cgi bin, wouldn't 
we have a certain attractive xtalk solution for the slashdot 
crowd? 

One the other hand, if we showed that via html you could 
download a Rev client that runs web or cgi code, it would be
as intersting for the secure minded web transactions many use
today... And rev stacks are harder to hack maybe but above all
it's multiplatform... 

We can go places java and flash can't go for many business uses.
We have as many features as web clients. But we can go offline 
and they can't really... 

Ajax also seems to download on demand, but no net connection, no
ajax... Am I wrong?

viva la Revolution!
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo



From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Sat Oct 15 05:19:19 2005
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 17:19:19 +0800
Subject: New date format: YYYY-MM-DD
In-Reply-To: <BF75C2DA.2DC2C%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <p06230907bf760570ffce@192.168.1.101>
	<BF75C2DA.2DC2C%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <f73a98160510150219q28612339vcefa68192a1deb0@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/15/05, Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:
>
>
> I'd love to see an additional "ISO" conversion format:
>
> convert tDate to ISO date
> convert tTime to ISO time
>
> Mark Waddingham - any chance of getting this into 2.7?



Yes please, I'd like to see this as well. Although Ken's stsFormattedDate
function is a masterpiece, the above 1 liner seems more 'revolutionary' than
convolutionary.

:-)


From mcdomi at free.fr  Sat Oct 15 06:38:45 2005
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 12:38:45 +0200
Subject: New date format: YYYY-MM-DD
In-Reply-To: <303C70AC-7CFB-4BEE-8131-5EDE873D2C4C@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <1h4h4d7.105psu61jk6oowM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Sivakatirswami <katir at hindu.org> wrote:

> convert "2006/12/23" to long date

convert "2006/12/23" from ISO to long date

;-)

I'm too using this format -- no more using the yyyy/mm/dd since it was
misinterpreted as folder delimiters ;->

-- 
Revolutionario



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sat Oct 15 08:20:41 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 08:20:41 -0400
Subject: New date format: YYYY-MM-DD
In-Reply-To: <BF75C485.2DC2F%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF75C485.2DC2F%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <A81E4469-1CD1-47EB-BC54-669822E3465F@conncoll.edu>

Wow -- as in, "wow!"

Charles Hartman
On Oct 14, 2005, at 9:24 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> On 10/14/05 5:53 PM, "Charles Hartman"  
> <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu> wrote:
>
>
>> Maybe a built-in date-conversion function, with different standards
>> as arguments controlling the output? It would be *great* to have a
>> smart function like that, that would take the whole range of formats
>> various users might type into a field. (Anybody got one?)
>>
>
> Here you go! The function below has more comments than any other  
> function
> I've written <grin>.
>
> Have fun!
>
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
>
>
> WATCH FOR LINE WRAPS!
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --| FUNCTION: stsFormattedDate
> --|
> --| Author:   Ken Ray
> --| Version:  2.0
> --| Created:  8/2/04
> --| Last Mod: 11/15/04
> --| Requires: --
> --|
> --| Formats an incoming date according to a variety of date  
> patterns and
> --| outputs the
> --| result.
> --|
> --| Parameters:
> --|     <pDate>: The date to be formatted. Must be a date or date/time
> --|           combination, or empty. If empty, uses the current  
> date and
> --|           default 2AM time if time is requested in the pattern.
> --|     <pFormat>: The pattern to use to format the incoming date. The
> --|           following patterns are available where "M" is used  
> for the
> --|           month, "D" for the day, "Y" for the year, "W" for the  
> weekday
> --|           name, "H" for hours, "P" for AM/PM, "N" for minutes,  
> "S" for
> --|           seconds, and "G" for GMT calculation, as follows:
> --|                M = month number, no leading zeroes (1-12)
> --|                MM = month number, with leading zeroes (01-12)
> --|                MMM = month name, abbreviated (Jan - Dec)
> --|                MMMM = month name, long (January - December)
> --|                D = day number, no leading zeroes (1-31)
> --|                DD = day number, with leading zeroes (01-31)
> --|                W = weekday name, single letter (S/M/T/W/t/F/s)
> --|                WW = weekday name, shortest (Su/M/Tu/W/Th/F/Sa)
> --|                WWW = weekday name, abbreviated (Sun/Mon/Tue/Wed/ 
> Thu/
> --|                   Fri/Sat)
> --|                WWWW = weekday name, long (Sunday/Monday/Tuesday/ 
> etc.)
> --|                YY = two-digit year (00-99)
> --|                YYYY = four digit year (1970-2004)
> --|                H = hours, no leading zeroes, 12 hour format (1-12)
> --|                HH = hours, leading zeroes, 12 hour format (01-12)
> --|                HHH = hours, no leading zeroes, 24 hour format  
> (1-23)
> --|                HHHH = hours, leading zeroes, 24 hour format  
> (01-23)
> --|                HHHHH = military time format (0000 - 2359)
> --|                P = AM/PM, single character, lower case (a/p)
> --|                PP = AM/PM, single character, upper case (A/P)
> --|                PPP = AM/PM, two characters, lower case (am/pm)
> --|                PPPP = AM/PM, two characters, upper case (AM/PM)
> --|                N = minutes, no leading zeroes (0-59)
> --|                NN = minutes, leading zeroes (00-59)
> --|                S = seconds, no leading zeroes (0-59)
> --|                SS = seconds, leading zeroes (00-59)
> --|                G = Calculation based on GMT (-1100 to +1100)
> --|     <pUseBrackets>: Determines whether or not the format needs  
> to have
> --|           brackets surrounding each part of the pattern. If  
> true, it
> --|           requires that all patterns are surrounded by square  
> brackets,
> --|           and allows the letters used in the pattern  
> (MDYWHNSGP) to be
> --|           used as part of the return string that is *not* part  
> of the
> --|           pattern (for example "GMT" as a string). If false,  
> pattern
> --|           letters are replaced by the corresponding date parts  
> in the
> --|           returned string (so it assumes that characters that  
> are not
> --|           part of the pattern are not letters, but symbols).
> --|
> --| Examples:
> --|    MM/DD/YYYY  -> 04/07/2004
> --|    WWW, MMM D YYYY  -> Mon, Aug 2 2004
> --|    WWW, MMM D YYYY G  --> Mon, Aug 2 2004 -0500
> --|    [WWW],[MMM] [D] [YYYY] [G] GMT  --> Mon, Aug 2 2004 -0500 GMT
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> function stsFormattedDate pDate,pFormat,pUseBrackets
>   if (pDate = "") or (pDate = "Now") then put the date && \
>     the long time into pDate
>   if (pFormat = "") then put "MM/DD/YYYY" into pFormat
>   if isNumber(word -1 of pDate) and (word -1 of pDate <=2359) then
>     -- date and military time sent in, just needs a colon between hour
>     -- and minute for it to be converted
>     put ":" before char -2 of pDate
>   end if
>   -- Check for am/pm without preceding space
>   put offset("am",pDate) into tLoc
>   if (tLoc <> 0) and (char (tLoc-1) of pDate <> " ") then put " "  
> before
> char tLoc of pDate
>   put offset("pm",pDate) into tLoc
>   if (tLoc <> 0) and (char (tLoc-1) of pDate <> " ") then put " "  
> before
> char tLoc of pDate
>
>   put ((pUseBrackets <> "") and (pUseBrackets <> "false")) into  
> pUseBrackets
>   put pDate into tOrigDate
>
>   convert pDate to dateItems
>   if (pDate is "invalid date") or (("69" is not in tOrigDate) and  
> (item 1 of
> pDate="1969")) then
>     return "invalid date"
>   end if
>   put item 1 of pDate into tYear
>   put item 2 of pDate into tMonthNum
>   put item 3 of pDate into tDayNum
>   put item 4 of pDate into tHour
>   put item 5 of pDate into tMinute
>   put item 6 of pDate into tSecond
>   put item 7 of pDate into tWeekdayNum
>   put word -1 of the internet date into G
>   set the numberFormat to "00"
>
>   if pUseBrackets then
>     put "[MMMM],[MMM],[MM],[M],[WWWW],[WWW],[WW],[W],[DD],[D], 
> [YYYY]," & \
>       "[YY],[HHHHH],[HHHH],[HHH],[HH],[H],[PPPP],[PPP],[PP],[P], 
> [NN]," & \
>       "[N],[SS],[S],[G]" into tFormatWords
>   else
>     put "MMMM,MMM,MM,M,WWWW,WWW,WW,W,DD,D,YYYY," & \
>       "YY,HHHHH,HHHH,HHH,HH,H,PPPP,PPP,PP,P,NN,N,SS,S,G" into  
> tFormatWords
>   end if
>   put "!@#$%^&*()_+{}|:'<>?~`-=[]" into tReplaceChars
>   repeat with x = 1 to the number of items of tFormatWords
>     replace (item x of tFormatWords) with "[[[" & char x of  
> tReplaceChars &
> "]]]]" in pFormat
>   end repeat
>
>   put tYear into YYYY
>   put char -2 to -1 of tYear into YY
>
>   put tMonthNum into M
>   put (tMonthNum+0) into MM
>   put line tMonthNum of the abbreviated monthNames into MMM
>   put line tMonthNum of the long monthNames into MMMM
>
>   put tDayNum into D
>   put (tDayNum+0) into DD
>
>   put char tWeekDayNum of "SMTWtFs" into W
>   put item tWeekDayNum of "S,M,Tu,W,Th,F,Sa" into WW
>   put line tWeekDayNum of the abbreviated weekdayNames into WWW
>   put line tWeekDayNum of the long weekdayNames into WWWW
>
>   put tHour into HHH
>   put (tHour+0) into HHHH
>   if tHour <=12 then
>     put tHour into H
>     put "a" into P
>     put "A" into PP
>     put "am" into PPP
>     put "AM" into PPPP
>   else
>     put tHour-12 into H
>     if H < 10 then
>       delete char 1 of H  -- remove leading 0
>     end if
>     put "p" into P
>     put "P" into PP
>     put "pm" into PPP
>     put "PM" into PPPP
>   end if
>   put (H+0) into HH
>
>   put tMinute into N
>   put (tMinute+0) into NN
>
>   put HHHH & NN into HHHHH
>
>   put tSecond into S
>   put (tSecond+0) into SS
>
>   repeat with x = 1 to the number of items of tFormatWords
>     if pUseBrackets then
>       local tTemp
>       get matchText(item x of tFormatWords,"\[(.*?)\]",tTemp)
>       do "put" && tTemp && "into tVal"
>     else
>       do "put" && (item x of tFormatWords) && "into tVal"
>     end if
>     replace "[[[" & char x of tReplaceChars & "]]]]"  with tVal in  
> pFormat
>   end repeat
>
>   return pFormat
> end stsFormattedDate
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From SimPLsol at aol.com  Sat Oct 15 10:45:52 2005
From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:45:52 EDT
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO [|Not so Short]
Message-ID: <84.4fe0c7f8.30827020@aol.com>

Or as good marketing people also say:
"Sell the sizzle not the steak."
What it "is" counts for little, what it "does" is everything. Or as good 
marketing people put it:
"Never list a feature without describing its benefits."
What is different about TAOO? And why should I care?
Paul Looney


From jhurley at infostations.com  Sat Oct 15 10:48:33 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 07:48:33 -0700
Subject: Did you get a sex change too?
In-Reply-To: <20051015065514.B949D825134@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051015065514.B949D825134@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230900bf76c5953d8b@[69.19.167.106]>

Is it just me? revSpeechVoices("Male") yields the same speakers as 
reSpeechVoices("Female").

Mac OS 10.4.2 & Run Rev  2.6

on mouseUp
   put revspeechvoices("Male") into tList
   repeat for each line tLine in tList
     put tLine & cr after msg box
     revsetSpeechVoice tLine
     revSpeak "I've got to stop using those hormones."
     wait until  revIsSpeaking()  is false
   end repeat
end mouseUp

Jim


From david at openpartnership.net  Sat Oct 15 10:53:41 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (david bovill)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 16:53:41 +0200
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs
	TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <4350635D.2010005@tweedly.net>
References: <OF35B56E59.B560395E-ONC125709A.00264755-C125709A.00281EC5@deutsche-boerse	.com>
	<p06230904bf7582b038ac@[192.168.1.101]>
	<4350635D.2010005@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <FF6457AB-0011-4E32-A09D-EFCABE58148B@openpartnership.net>

On 15 Oct 2005, at 04:03, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> It may be (puts on 'optimist' hat) that Rev is so much more  
> productive that an individual can do so much more ....
> or it may be (puts on 'pessimist' hat) that the lack of a RCS /  
> CVS / subversion equivalent makes multi-developer efforts so much  
> harder in Rev than in other languages that it just hasn't happened.
>
> If I've forgotten something stupid, or if some efforts have been  
> multi-developer and I just didn't know, I'd be happy to be corrected.

Both? Certainly I think that all is required is some decent  
collaborative infrastructure built into the Rev environment to turn  
the healthy interest expressed on the list into a practical reality.  
I am committed to doing this as it is part of my work to release the  
Rev based software I work on for the Community TV Project here in  
Vienna as open source. This means I feel for the reasons you outline,  
more than releasing the code. It also means providing some  
infrastructure?


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Sat Oct 15 11:10:18 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 17:10:18 +0200
Subject: Did you get a sex change too?
In-Reply-To: <p06230900bf76c5953d8b@[69.19.167.106]>
References: <20051015065514.B949D825134@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230900bf76c5953d8b@[69.19.167.106]>
Message-ID: <BE30B8A0-F281-409A-89B1-B935E0B95041@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Jim,

Bugzilla #2764 (June 2005) entered by Sarah.
Bug noted as "new" but a quick test with older versions of Rev show  
that this bug was present since the introduction of the  
revSpeechVoices function (Rev 2.0).
Does not help at all :-(

Le 15 oct. 05 ? 16:48, Jim Hurley a ?crit :

> Is it just me? revSpeechVoices("Male") yields the same speakers as  
> reSpeechVoices("Female").
>
> Mac OS 10.4.2 & Run Rev  2.6
>
> on mouseUp
>   put revspeechvoices("Male") into tList
>   repeat for each line tLine in tList
>     put tLine & cr after msg box
>     revsetSpeechVoice tLine
>     revSpeak "I've got to stop using those hormones."
>     wait until  revIsSpeaking()  is false
>   end repeat
> end mouseUp

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Oct 15 11:25:26 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 17:25:26 +0200
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vsTAOO]
In-Reply-To: <FF6457AB-0011-4E32-A09D-EFCABE58148B@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <20051015145514.A506682515C@mail.runrev.com>

David, Alex

Sure we need both structure and infrastructure but
we need first a common programming base... Without this
the rest wont follow... There's has to be goal...

We know there is demand and that there is support behind.
We know that there are suppliers (scripters) and lots of
background experience to be mixed in...

But if we do not set a "framework" ground, there's little
change we can avoid chaos. CVS for example is primordial
for the developper but we need a common storage and format
to go forward before we can say we do it "all" that way.

Ruby on Rails has apparently a phylosophy to it too. Not
following it leads to chaos and bloat compared to finess
and smooth applications... 

This is a big part in what I propose... The rest should
be simple for anyone to add on thereafter and others to
review... 

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> david bovill
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 4:54 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. 
> AJAX... Ajax vsTAOO]
> 
> On 15 Oct 2005, at 04:03, Alex Tweedly wrote:
> 
> > It may be (puts on 'optimist' hat) that Rev is so much more 
> productive 
> > that an individual can do so much more ....
> > or it may be (puts on 'pessimist' hat) that the lack of a 
> RCS / CVS / 
> > subversion equivalent makes multi-developer efforts so much 
> harder in 
> > Rev than in other languages that it just hasn't happened.
> >
> > If I've forgotten something stupid, or if some efforts have been 
> > multi-developer and I just didn't know, I'd be happy to be 
> corrected.
> 
> Both? Certainly I think that all is required is some decent 
> collaborative infrastructure built into the Rev environment 
> to turn the healthy interest expressed on the list into a 
> practical reality.  
> I am committed to doing this as it is part of my work to 
> release the Rev based software I work on for the Community TV 
> Project here in Vienna as open source. This means I feel for 
> the reasons you outline, more than releasing the code. It 
> also means providing some infrastructure?
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Oct 15 11:29:47 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 17:29:47 +0200
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO [|Not so Short]
In-Reply-To: <84.4fe0c7f8.30827020@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20051015145933.0343F824FEA@mail.runrev.com>

 
> Or as good marketing people also say:
> "Sell the sizzle not the steak."
> What it "is" counts for little, what it "does" is everything. 
> Or as good marketing people put it:
> "Never list a feature without describing its benefits."
> What is different about TAOO? And why should I care?
> Paul Looney

Paul

if it makes your job to create stack easier and gives you more
features for the bang, isn't it worth it? And I do mean long-term!

If it auto-organizes things so you don't have to each time, it's
worth it!

If it auto-relates information so it's easier to retrieve it later, that
much smarter you go...

Like everything, there's a learning curve and a cost to use it. One you add
on top of your current projects and efforts. But what if the benefits dwarf
the cost in the medium term?

As an economist, I say TAOO is build against error making, self-management.
The rest is just more complete GUIs for your clients and a real competitive
edge... And that's worth the risk!  

cheers
Xavier



From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Oct 15 11:25:08 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 08:25:08 -0700
Subject: New date format: YYYY-MM-DD
In-Reply-To: <62C4FF87-6E06-4176-90E3-ADC384575833@hindu.org>
References: <62C4FF87-6E06-4176-90E3-ADC384575833@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20051015080233.01e29df8@pop3.pon.net>

Aloha Sannyasin,

>Anyone want to vote for a new standard date format?
>
>YYYY-MM-DD

I prefer a seven-digit Julian representation: YYYYDDD.

Saves one character per date, and the logic for calculating the # of days 
between two dates and calculating the date x days before or after a given 
date is a bit simpler, me thinks.

Hi Charles,

>It would be *great* to have a
>smart function like that, that would take the whole range of formats
>various users might type into a field. (Anybody got one?)

I come from a multi-user background where one expects everyone will use the 
same date format when entering dates in the same application; so my date 
routines can support any Control Panel system date format currently in 
effect, but mark any date that is not system compliant as invalid.

Following are some of the Julian date routines in Serendipity Library 
<http:wecode.org/serendipity/>:

function systemDateToJulian theDate -- 16 Mar 04:RCC
   get validDate(theDate) -- returns "true" & return & the dateItems if 
date is valid per
   -- the computer's system date format
   if word 1 of it then return dateItemsToJulian(line 2 of it) else return 
empty
end systemDateToJulian

function dateItemsToJulian theDateItems -- 17 Mar 04:RCC
   put item 1 of theDateItems into theJulianDate
   put 31 into monthLength[1]
   if leapYear(theJulianDate) then put 29 into monthLength[2]
   else put 28 into monthLength[2]
   put 31 into monthLength[3]
   put 30 into monthLength[4]
   put 31 into monthLength[5]
   put 30 into monthLength[6]
   put 31 into monthLength[7]
   put 31 into monthLength[8]
   put 30 into monthLength[9]
   put 31 into monthLength[10]
   put 30 into monthLength[11]
   put 31 into monthLength[12]
   multiply theJulianDate by 1000
   get (item 2 of theDateItems)-1
   repeat with x = 1 to it
     add monthLength[x] to theJulianDate
   end repeat
   add item 3 of theDateItems to theJulianDate
   return justifyString(theJulianDate,7,"left","0") -- for centuries < 1000
end dateItemsToJulian

function julianToSystemDate theJulianDate -- 16 Mar 04:RCC
   get julianToDateItems(theJulianDate)
   return formatDate(item 1 of it,item 2 of it,item 3 of it,true) -- 
formats to system date
end julianToSystemDate

function julianToDateItems theJulianDate -- 7 Apr 04:RCC
   put 0 into monthEnd[0]
   put 31 into monthEnd[1]
   put 59 into monthEnd[2]
   put 90 into monthEnd[3]
   put 120 into monthEnd[4]
   put 151 into monthEnd[5]
   put 181 into monthEnd[6]
   put 212 into monthEnd[7]
   put 243 into monthEnd[8]
   put 273 into monthEnd[9]
   put 304 into monthEnd[10]
   put 334 into monthEnd[11]
   put 365 into monthEnd[12]
   put (char 1 to -4 of theJulianDate) into theYear
   put char -3 to -1 of theJulianDate into julianDays
   if julianDays < 1 then return empty
   if leapYear(theYear) then
     if julianDays = 60 then return itemsWithDay(theYear&",2,29,0,0,0,0")
     else if julianDays > 60 then subtract 1 from julianDays
   end if
   if julianDays > 365 then return empty
   repeat with x = 1 to 12
     if julianDays <= monthEnd[x] then
       put x into theMonth
       put julianDays - monthEnd[x-1] into theDays
       return itemsWithDay(theYear&comma&theMonth&comma&theDays&",0,0,0,0")
--   itemsWithDay returns the constructed dateItems  string with the 
correct day of
--   week represented by the first 3 items
     end if
   end repeat
end julianToDateItems

Rob Cozens

"We are living on a dying planet.
  We're killing everything that's alive.
  And anyone who tries to deny it wears a tie,
  and gets paid to lie."

  -- Joe Walsh, from "Songs for a Dying Planet" 



From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Sat Oct 15 12:16:16 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 09:16:16 -0700
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510142348230.22166-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <BF767960.38C90%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Inspiring!

On 10/15/05 12:22 AM, "Judy Perry" <jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu> wrote:

> The more that we actively discourage 'thinking outside of the box' (or
> even thinking at all), the more we damn ourselves to the present and its
> limitations.
> 

And then Scott countered with,

On 10/15/05 1:17 AM, "Scott Rossi" <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:

> IMO, the use of templates/themes is not an attempt to discourage thinking
> outside the box.  It is an attempt to illuminate the fact that there is, in
> fact, a box present, which has certain properties and rules, and one must
> learn the limitations of the box before one can learn to think outside it.
> 
> What you may see as "dumbing down", others may see as education.

I have studied Japanese Martial  Art of Aikido for over 12 years. My
teachers used various kata and exercises (movement templates) to teach us
the basic concepts and principles of martial movement. They taught us very
precise movements, re-enforcing them through practice and demonstration.

BUT they also always told us that someday we must forget everything we had
learned and create our own Aikido.  That was the goal.  BUT first we had to
fully absorb the principles of Aikido. If we tried to think out side the box
too early or too much, we would not understand what were doing and risked
injuring ourselves or lour training partners.

My teachers always complained that we either to tied to the templates OR
that we were forgetting the principles. Or put another way we either saw the
Templates as the Goal or we didn't know what the !@#@$ we were doing.

I see this very much the same way.  The danger of templates is that people
see them as the goal and don't think outside the box.  And not having
Templates  makes it very hard for people to learn about the box, which makes
it very hard to step out side of it.

So like many important questions that face humans on a daily basis, The
answer to the question "are template GOOD or BAD" is...

YES!

Todd

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 15 12:31:56 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 09:31:56 -0700
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <BF760918.22CE4%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <BF767D0C.2F0AD%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

On 10/15/05 1:17 AM, "Scott Rossi" <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:

> IMO, the use of templates/themes is not an attempt to discourage thinking
> outside the box.  It is an attempt to illuminate the fact that there is, in
> fact, a box present, which has certain properties and rules, and one must
> learn the limitations of the box before one can learn to think outside it.
> 
> What you may see as "dumbing down", others may see as education.

I agree. 'Defining what the box is' is a valuable first step.  Someone who
has a vague concept does not have a working tool.  I can't imagine beginning
architecture students who have no understanding of structures and functions
and failures since they has been surrounded by them all their life.
>From this basic understanding,  they can develop a working knowledge of
building design, then go beyond.

In the world of computers, using a collection of software to function
adequately in a business capacity is an end in its own.  No need/desire for
the user to go beyond and explore or maximize the experience.

I feel one of the huge drawbacks to most computer programs is that they are
so intricate and layered that the average user avoids the complexity and
uses less than 1% of its capability.  Frustration abounds in the workplace
for more than one reason, and computer systems that rapidly evolve are too
much of a challenge.  Simplification is oh so welcome.  One button = print
full glorious color with accurate margins and cartridges that cost $5...
requiring only 5 seconds of our time.

To think outside the box, one must know the box, or not care about the box.
Of course, the concept that "to think outside the box, one must become the
box" is whole 'nuther level of philosophy.

I am definitely in favor of templates.  I am in favor of allowing those who
want/need/are addicted to going beyond to have tremendous freedom to do so
and share with the world.  That could actually be one of the definitions of
this list.

Universities - love what they provide - ivory tower thinking and research
that will direct the future.  Business world - love the field of operation
that brings life to ideas and dreams, distributes them, and employs millions
of people.

And now back to one of the many boxes on my desk and in my head.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Oct 15 12:40:57 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 18:40:57 +0200
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <BF767D0C.2F0AD%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20051015161044.41097825109@mail.runrev.com>

I didn't post my previous mail on Judy's thoughts but this came out of it...

When my math and cs teacher asked me what I wanted to do with the trs-80
with my for-loop sitting on the screen waiting to be executed, I didn't know
what to say... what can a black and white text screen do for me? hmmm I
thought... skateboarding was a lot more fun! 

Now I know the limits, I can explore the freedom within and extend that
beyond... It's part of learning...

cheers
Xavier 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ault
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 6:32 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
> 
> On 10/15/05 1:17 AM, "Scott Rossi" <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:
> 
> > IMO, the use of templates/themes is not an attempt to discourage 
> > thinking outside the box.  It is an attempt to illuminate the fact 
> > that there is, in fact, a box present, which has certain properties 
> > and rules, and one must learn the limitations of the box 
> before one can learn to think outside it.
> > 
> > What you may see as "dumbing down", others may see as education.
> 
> I agree. 'Defining what the box is' is a valuable first step. 
>  Someone who has a vague concept does not have a working 
> tool.  I can't imagine beginning architecture students who 
> have no understanding of structures and functions and 
> failures since they has been surrounded by them all their life.
> >From this basic understanding,  they can develop a working 
> knowledge of
> building design, then go beyond.
> 
> In the world of computers, using a collection of software to 
> function adequately in a business capacity is an end in its 
> own.  No need/desire for the user to go beyond and explore or 
> maximize the experience.
> 
> I feel one of the huge drawbacks to most computer programs is 
> that they are so intricate and layered that the average user 
> avoids the complexity and uses less than 1% of its 
> capability.  Frustration abounds in the workplace for more 
> than one reason, and computer systems that rapidly evolve are 
> too much of a challenge.  Simplification is oh so welcome.  
> One button = print full glorious color with accurate margins 
> and cartridges that cost $5...
> requiring only 5 seconds of our time.
> 
> To think outside the box, one must know the box, or not care 
> about the box.
> Of course, the concept that "to think outside the box, one 
> must become the box" is whole 'nuther level of philosophy.
> 
> I am definitely in favor of templates.  I am in favor of 
> allowing those who want/need/are addicted to going beyond to 
> have tremendous freedom to do so and share with the world.  
> That could actually be one of the definitions of this list.
> 
> Universities - love what they provide - ivory tower thinking 
> and research that will direct the future.  Business world - 
> love the field of operation that brings life to ideas and 
> dreams, distributes them, and employs millions of people.
> 
> And now back to one of the many boxes on my desk and in my head.
> 
> Jim Ault
> Las Vegas
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From AbilityForms at aol.com  Sat Oct 15 12:37:29 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 12:37:29 EDT
Subject: Corrupted Software?
Message-ID: <21d.1468a9.30828a49@aol.com>

Hi Everyone,

Apparently somehow either my stacks have become corrupted. The problem I'm 
having is that objects open up to a full screen. When I drag a new button onto 
my stack I get a huge orange rectangle until I drop the new button, then it is 
the default size. Other problems are that windows such as preference, 
inspector and error open to the full screen size. What do I do? I'm using Mac osx. 
Other than these annoyances my stacks work fine, thank goodness for that at 
least. I downloaded a fresh copy of runrev and that didn't fix the problems.

Joe,
Orlando, Florida


From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Sat Oct 15 12:42:52 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 09:42:52 -0700
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs
 TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <4350635D.2010005@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <BF767F9C.38C94%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>


On 10/14/05 7:03 PM, "Alex Tweedly" <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:

> the lack of a RCS / CVS /
> subversion equivalent makes multi-developer efforts so much harder in
> Rev than in other languages that it just hasn't happened.

I don't know much about CVS, so I am going to ask the dumb question.

Why can't a CVS system be built for Rev?

I am using Magic Carpet from Altuit and I like it a lot.  I know that it's
smallest "chunk" that you can check out is a stack, but it is still cool.

Couldn't something be built to deal with objects smaller then a stack?
Perhaps you could check out scripts or pieces of scripts.  Or buttons or
cards.

Maybe a good place to start with an open source community project would be
for to build a RevCVS.

Am I crazy or what?

I just know this.  I am new to Rev. and yet I am about to release a product
that my competitors can't touch, because I can build it so much faster in
Rev then they can with other tools.  And I making extensive use of examples
and example stacks and plug-ins. (Thanks everyone  :>)  )

BUT THAT SAID.  I can compete well in this little niche because the scope is
fairly small.  Even as fast as Rev is, large complex projects are well...
Large and complex...  The benefits of having  code management system for
those projects would be huge

Cheers
Todd

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Oct 15 12:54:47 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 09:54:47 -0700
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO [|Not so Short]
In-Reply-To: <20051015145933.0343F824FEA@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051015145933.0343F824FEA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <50A831E2-5E41-4B5D-9375-96BCAC8ADF04@danshafer.com>

Xavier....

And now you've BEGUN the process of describing benefits. Good start.  
Needs to be pared down and made more succinct. My attempt earlier  
seems like it might be somewhat close.

Dan

On Oct 15, 2005, at 8:29 AM, MisterX wrote:


>
>
>
>> Or as good marketing people also say:
>> "Sell the sizzle not the steak."
>> What it "is" counts for little, what it "does" is everything.
>> Or as good marketing people put it:
>> "Never list a feature without describing its benefits."
>> What is different about TAOO? And why should I care?
>> Paul Looney
>>
>>
>
> Paul
>
> if it makes your job to create stack easier and gives you more
> features for the bang, isn't it worth it? And I do mean long-term!
>
> If it auto-organizes things so you don't have to each time, it's
> worth it!
>
> If it auto-relates information so it's easier to retrieve it later,  
> that
> much smarter you go...
>
> Like everything, there's a learning curve and a cost to use it. One  
> you add
> on top of your current projects and efforts. But what if the  
> benefits dwarf
> the cost in the medium term?
>
> As an economist, I say TAOO is build against error making, self- 
> management.
> The rest is just more complete GUIs for your clients and a real  
> competitive
> edge... And that's worth the risk!
>
> cheers
> Xavier
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Oct 15 13:01:04 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:01:04 +0200
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs
	TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <BF767F9C.38C94%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <20051015163050.F3616825196@mail.runrev.com>

My plugin HotKeyNO2 tracks ANY change to any control and provides a rollback
mechanism but I messed up in the memory subsystems requiring a rewrite...

Alas it taxes a lot the environment to watch it all... I have plans to make
it faster and less intrussive once other processes are in place - journaling
might be more interesting a mechanism to research? Incremental or block
updates are also planned for remote clients as well as macro-creation and
more. Not a big barrier...  

The more clients TAOO gets, the more this is going to be a necessity or yet
another set of features... 

Cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Todd Geist
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 6:43 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. 
> AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO]
> 
> 
> On 10/14/05 7:03 PM, "Alex Tweedly" <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:
> 
> > the lack of a RCS / CVS /
> > subversion equivalent makes multi-developer efforts so much 
> harder in 
> > Rev than in other languages that it just hasn't happened.
> 
> I don't know much about CVS, so I am going to ask the dumb question.
> 
> Why can't a CVS system be built for Rev?
> 
> I am using Magic Carpet from Altuit and I like it a lot.  I 
> know that it's smallest "chunk" that you can check out is a 
> stack, but it is still cool.
> 
> Couldn't something be built to deal with objects smaller then a stack?
> Perhaps you could check out scripts or pieces of scripts.  Or 
> buttons or cards.
> 
> Maybe a good place to start with an open source community 
> project would be for to build a RevCVS.
> 
> Am I crazy or what?
> 
> I just know this.  I am new to Rev. and yet I am about to 
> release a product that my competitors can't touch, because I 
> can build it so much faster in Rev then they can with other 
> tools.  And I making extensive use of examples and example 
> stacks and plug-ins. (Thanks everyone  :>)  )
> 
> BUT THAT SAID.  I can compete well in this little niche 
> because the scope is fairly small.  Even as fast as Rev is, 
> large complex projects are well...
> Large and complex...  The benefits of having  code management 
> system for those projects would be huge
> 
> Cheers
> Todd
> 
> -- 
> 
> Todd Geist
> ______________________________________
> g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From revolution at derbrill.de  Sat Oct 15 13:07:16 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:07:16 +0200
Subject: Did you get a sex change too?
In-Reply-To: <20051015161553.E661C8251BE@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <23156CD5-3D9E-11DA-9A77-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Same here Jim.

And the most funny result of a handler I have seen (or better heared) 
in a while. Thanks for the demo script. :-D

> Is it just me? revSpeechVoices("Male") yields the same speakers as
> reSpeechVoices("Female").

> Mac OS 10.4.2 & Run Rev  2.6

> on mouseUp
>    put revspeechvoices("Male") into tList
>    repeat for each line tLine in tList
>      put tLine & cr after msg box
>      revsetSpeechVoice tLine
>      revSpeak "I've got to stop using those hormones."
>      wait until  revIsSpeaking()  is false
>    end repeat
> end mouseUp

> Jim



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Oct 15 13:53:11 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 12:53:11 -0500
Subject: Scripting conference this week -- forgot to mention it
Message-ID: <43514207.6060902@hyperactivesw.com>

Today's scripting conference was canceled, due to a number of 
unavoidable circumstances. I meant to announce that yesterday, but 
somehow time got fuzzy on me and I missed announcing the change. While 
we did post the change to the schedule on Runtime's web site, I'm very 
sorry if any of you sat around waiting for us this morning. We hope to 
reschedule Chipp's conference for some time in the future.

Just a heads-up: Jerry's conference in two weeks will also not take 
place, though his stack will be available for download later. Again, 
conflicts that were unforseen when we first made up the schedule make it 
impossible for him to do the live chat. But he's promised a stack for us.

Apologies again if anyone was waiting in the chat room, listening to the 
sound of crickets chirping.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From europe at ehug.info  Sat Oct 15 14:41:53 2005
From: europe at ehug.info (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:41:53 +0200
Subject: Corrupted Software?
In-Reply-To: <21d.1468a9.30828a49@aol.com>
References: <21d.1468a9.30828a49@aol.com>
Message-ID: <43514D71.6090700@ehug.info>

Hi Joe,

Do the problems you describe also happen if you reinstall 
Revolution and make a completely new stack, without opening 
other stacks first? Do you have a screenshot of the orange 
rectangle? Which version of Rev are you using?

Mark

AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Apparently somehow either my stacks have become corrupted. The problem I'm 
> having is that objects open up to a full screen. When I drag a new button onto 
> my stack I get a huge orange rectangle until I drop the new button, then it is 
> the default size. Other problems are that windows such as preference, 
> inspector and error open to the full screen size. What do I do? I'm using Mac osx. 
> Other than these annoyances my stacks work fine, thank goodness for that at 
> least. I downloaded a fresh copy of runrev and that didn't fix the problems.
> 
> Joe,
> Orlando, Florida

-- 

eHUG coordinator
mailto:europe at ehug.info
http://www.ehug.info
http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch
http://www.economy-x-talk.com



From zellner at tamu.edu  Sat Oct 15 14:52:22 2005
From: zellner at tamu.edu (Ronald Zellner)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 13:52:22 -0500
Subject: Standalone in Windows
Message-ID: <CB0D8A54-2CF1-415D-9754-92BED8654ED7@tamu.edu>

I have a "Splash Screen" stack that opens a main stack  so the  
standalone will save.
I use the "Splash Screen" stack to create the standalone.

Functionally, everything works with the OSX standalone, the problem
is with the Windows:

The main problem is when the .exe file is opened it produces an error
message when it opens the  .rev file:

        "The application or DLL   C:\...............\MainStack.rev is
not a valid Windows image. Please check this against your
installation disk."

When I click 'OK' the stack opens fine,  and saves properly, it just  
produces the same error each time it is opened.

Any insight would be appreciated.  thanks.

Ron



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Oct 15 15:03:01 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 21:03:01 +0200
Subject: Standalone in Windows
In-Reply-To: <CB0D8A54-2CF1-415D-9754-92BED8654ED7@tamu.edu>
Message-ID: <20051015183252.700D4824EE0@mail.runrev.com>

is the splashscreen or mainstack whichever available?

Are they substacks or?

haven't seen that error here...

cheers
Xavier 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Ronald Zellner
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 8:52 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Standalone in Windows
> 
> I have a "Splash Screen" stack that opens a main stack  so 
> the standalone will save.
> I use the "Splash Screen" stack to create the standalone.
> 
> Functionally, everything works with the OSX standalone, the 
> problem is with the Windows:
> 
> The main problem is when the .exe file is opened it produces 
> an error message when it opens the  .rev file:
> 
>         "The application or DLL   C:\...............\MainStack.rev is
> not a valid Windows image. Please check this against your 
> installation disk."
> 
> When I click 'OK' the stack opens fine,  and saves properly, 
> it just produces the same error each time it is opened.
> 
> Any insight would be appreciated.  thanks.
> 
> Ron
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From soapdog at mac.com  Sat Oct 15 15:03:00 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 16:03:00 -0300
Subject: on the topic of TAOO and other solo projects.
Message-ID: <7263E4E7-D175-4F88-B751-85551E781203@mac.com>

Xavier,

maybe the "problem" with TAOO is that it's so tuned to your workflow  
and the way you think, that we're not able to understand it due to  
the fact we're not you. Sometimes we build software to serve our own  
necessity and those softwares are the hardest to explain for they  
need to serve only for us, they were not created so that everyone  
could understand them.

Once I was talking with Richard and he told me about tools and  
applications and their differences. Wondering about it later, I  
grokked that there are pieces of code that seems overhelmingly  
obvious for me but yet, would baffle a third party. That is not  
because the code is so difficult that someone would have a hardtime  
understanding but it's hard to understand because the software was  
custom built to serve my needs and the way I think.

To illustrate, let me tell you of a software that I use all the time  
while coding in Rev and yet I never shared. I call it "Alfred", it's  
as hard to explain as TAOO for it's very abstract, yet I make use of  
it everyday. Alfred is a stack, with only one input field and nothing  
more. The heart of Alfred is a clever RegEx generator/parser that is  
generated and executed at runtime. See, no one can understand it!?!?  
Now, let us explain what problem Alfred solves so that people can  
understand about it. One thing I hate is to keep switching  
applications, I like the apple newton model where everything is at  
your fingertip, one feature I like best of the newt is the "Assist"  
feature that enables me to write phrases like "have lunch with  
britney spears tomorrow" and it will parse it for me and book an  
appointment with britiney spears for me tomorrow in the calendar,  
also it will fetch britney contact from the contact database if  
present. I can almost talk with a newt using the Assist feature. I  
missed that on my mac, so I built Alfred to clone that, by clever use  
of RegEx expressions I can tell alfred to do things for me, like  
booking appointments, stick notes, sending emails, browsing to  
pages.... So in the end, what Alfred enables me is never to leave Rev  
and work from there. Alfred is tied to iCal, Apple Mail and  
AddressBook so it can use data from all this applications (even the  
terminal is now hooked, sending shell commands). If I simply shared  
Alfred, people would look and ask all sorts of questions like why  
he's generating the parsing routine at runtime? Thats why I never  
shared the thing, until I polish it so anyone can understand and make  
use of it, it will stay at my HD (and in the HD of those that want to  
see my spaghetti code).

Maybe you should start thinking as a stranger, like, would a stranger  
without my background, understand this? One thing I learned from  
Sivakatriswami is that "documenting is half the fun"? By documenting  
as you code, you'll sure make TAOO more understendable for us. Like,  
make a pool, let the community ask questions, go building on top of  
those questions like a FAQ, then, some time later, it will be easy to  
understand TAOO

Cheers
andre

From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Sat Oct 15 15:16:07 2005
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 15:16:07 -0400
Subject: Math wizardry
Message-ID: <OFC9A07610.8855EE67-ON8525709B.0067D47D@sealedair.com>

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 05:13:44 -0800, Jim Hurley wrote to Jim MaConnell:
>
> Jim,
> Perhaps even easier would be to define a function which determines
> the *geometrical* angle associated with a line in Run Rev. Any
> geometrical line rotated 180 degrees is the same geometrical line.
> Therefore the function below eliminates the signs associated with
> Run Rev angle.
> 
> 
> function theGeometrialAngle p1,p2
>   --Geometrical angle of line defined by the two points p1 and p2
>   get the paramcount
>   if it is 1 then
>     put line 2 of p1 into p2
>     put line 1 of p1 into p1
>   end if
>   put item 1 of p2 - item 1 of p1 into dx
>   put item 2 of p2 - item 2 of p1 into dy
>   put atan2(dy,dx) into tAngle
>   --Add or subtract pi as needed.
>   switch
>   case  tAngle < 0
>     return tAngle + pi
>     break
>   case  tAngle > pi
>     return tAngle - pi
>     break
>   default
>     return tAngle
>   end switch
> end theGeometrialAngle
> 
> function tAngleBetween a1,a2
>   return abs(a1 - a2)
> end tAngleBetween
> And so the geometrical angle between two Run Rev lines is just the 
absolute value of the difference.
> 
> 
> Jim

Hello Jim(s),

I was trying to use this function with a real-world problem and it isn't 
giving me the result (an angle between 1 and 360) that I expected. I have 
an image object (a scan of some text). The image wasn't scanned straight, 
so I thought I would draw a grc line in parallel with the text in the 
scan. I am trying to use the functions above to determine the angle of the 
grc line object so that I can rotate the image to make it straight. The 
function always returns a number that is less than 3. Can someone explain 
why this is or offer another way to determine the angle of a line? Math is 
NOT my strength.

TIA,
Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Oct 15 15:19:13 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 21:19:13 +0200
Subject: what in the TAO is happening?
In-Reply-To: <6F079051-7803-4328-991E-B8A5C7E8B6BC@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <20051015184905.14E6F8251B4@mail.runrev.com>

> > Sure we need both structure and infrastructure but
> 
> Honey - you are about as structured as a hurricane on toast!

To develop the structure for TAOO and it's rev infrastructure I needed a new
more flexible structure than PHPNuke so I've laid out a new site thanks to
wiki which affords real structures in its infrastructure.

see my new website url at the end later...

It will soon replace the regular monsieurx (;0 

That was part of the problem... Website image credibility...

The second part is explaining how a phylosophy fits a "software development
architecture that is natural for your projects' development effort". That
it's beneficial is not really for me to say but I think I can prove that
anytime! You're turn to try...

My goal is the empowerement of the user's data structure use by providing a
smart and modular infrastructure in the Rev IDE. Since the content is
regardless of the infrastructure, it's structure can be managed in many new
ways me thinks! 

 You have a choice:
> 
>      1) Stick to your methodology and develop an application 
> / framework by yourself.
> 
>      2) Learn how to collaborate / do social software.

Im sorry Dave but you seem to miss the the underlying design principles I
keep repeating.

The methodology is to make it collaborative in a socially beneficial way for
software components to be built by different persons. If you meant, im not
sharing the source, that's about to change. We'll see how many like it that
way. But don't complain it's not finished! It runs but parts are still under
development - I only have two hands and don't want to embarrass myself again
with incomplete software complains. Nonetheless, I do have quite a
substantial amount to show! The 5 MB download expands to 21 MBs of pure
script power... 

As I've said many times, TAOO is a phylosophy with methodology but it allows
something different to happen where the "users" context is litterally just a
question of naming a new file... 

> Social software requires an understanding of other people, a 
> good marketing approach (open source style) and the ability 
> to structure your work so that other people with short 
> attention spans can engage.  

for one, it is opensource - restrictions respected where applicable. Other
people's software in business I've developped since 1991, I believe that's
enough experience. I do better guis than what you see believe me but it's
not the right time to rush into things that are going to change drastically
later. Im not a great gui designer but im working on that! Alas I can't
change the PC gui rev or windows 2000 gives me. I use win 2000 because it's
a least common denominator gui - alas no gui. It's also one of the most
compact expected custom pixel-clicked graphic guis! 

> and the ability 
> to structure your work so that other people with short 
> attention spans can engage.  

What can be easier than objects in a group or eggs in a basket or contacts
in a company or cards in a background in a stack?

> An alternate strategy is to team up with a few other people 
> who appreciate your skills and energy, and are prepared to 
> put substantial work into developing a framework.

which is what I keep hoping! 

> I have tried (hard), Monte, Alain, Marielle and others have 
> too. You need to change how you do things or else it will not 
> work out (again)
> - to the loss of everyone.

Rome didn't get cabled in a day - consider that... 

> Key Points:
> 
>      1) Do not do any marketing. Let someone else do it. Your 
> rhetoric is entertaining but incomprehensible. It puts people 
> off. As you cannot seem to be able to cut the hyperbole, the 
> best strategy is to stop. Save your time, and concentrate on 
> developing finished components.

which is what I try to do. If I defend TAOO so vigorously is because I see
that people talk about what already available! Maybe in being too diplomatic
about it the meaning gets lost...

>      2) Do not send people XOS, TAOO or whatever. There is no point.  
> No-one will be able to use it or understand it.

if they can understand ajax or ruby on rails, and they can understand rev,
im sure they can understand TAOO! And I do think I try to exemplify what I
say to avoid this. Should I mention also it does pie charts and how good
that is for your business like a certain office type of line of products? Im
sure we all see that possible.

>      3) Work for people - do not lead. Influence the 
> development of the work through persuasion and the 
> incremental working code you release and they see as useful - 
> not through rhetoric and incomplete frameworks.
> 
>      4) Lose your attachment to any historical code-base.

That's ridiculous. This is an incremental script base with richer and richer
guis each day with less and less effort!

>      5) Build instead upon the relationships you succeed in forming.

making those relationships has not been as easy as making a correct web html
rendering filter for rev-fields which hundreds of users tried. So im making
tools for users with needs but the relationships do not work.

> I don't know what your time pressures are like at the moment, 
> but one way of practically taking this forwards is to spend a 
> week together with a couple of similarly motivated 
> developers. Marielle is keen to take this seriously from 
> December - so we may be able to do this then?

No offence meant David, but you keep contradicting my principles that make
it work. It's probably the wording or the babel fish in my ear distorting
something but while the intention to open up rev to the world remains the
same, my goals are not coming in clear somehow...

so I invite you all to the new monsieurX wiki...
http://www.monsieurx.com/tiki

Im all game and have set up the right tools for it in my new wiki on
monsieurx.com! 

cheers
Xavier



From jhurley at infostations.com  Sat Oct 15 16:07:36 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 13:07:36 -0700
Subject: Did you get a sex change too?
In-Reply-To: <20051015161553.AEE598251BD@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051015161553.AEE598251BD@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230901bf771114ef2d@[69.19.229.124]>

>
>Message: 9
>Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 17:10:18 +0200
>From: Eric Chatonet <eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com>
>Subject: Re: Did you get a sex change too?
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Message-ID: <BE30B8A0-F281-409A-89B1-B935E0B95041 at sosmartsoftware.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>Hi Jim,
>
>Bugzilla #2764 (June 2005) entered by Sarah.
>Bug noted as "new" but a quick test with older versions of Rev show 
>that this bug was present since the introduction of the 
>revSpeechVoices function (Rev 2.0).
>Does not help at all :-(
>
>Le 15 oct. 05 ? 16:48, Jim Hurley a ?crit :
>

Thanks Eric. That's a long wait to fix something that would so easy to fixed.

But it would also be hard to think of a bug with a lower priority.

Jim


From see3d at writeme.com  Sat Oct 15 16:35:32 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 16:35:32 -0400
Subject: Did you get a sex change too?
In-Reply-To: <p06230901bf771114ef2d@[69.19.229.124]>
References: <20051015161553.AEE598251BD@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230901bf771114ef2d@[69.19.229.124]>
Message-ID: <996D2349-42C7-46A6-9811-6F15EA8AA40D@writeme.com>

Jump up on soapbox with flame thrower!

It makes my blood boil when "easy to fix" bugs are not fixed because  
they are not high priority problems.  There is nothing more  
frustrating than having to put in "temporary" work around code  
forever.  Rediscovering the same bug over and over again in the user  
community makes Rev appear to be a far less bug free product than it  
is.  But what really irks me is when a new release breaks something  
that used to work, and because it is not a "high priority", the fix  
gets delayed for many months.  A priority list also needs to take  
into account the cost to fix in time, AND the cost in reputation.

Flame off.

Of course I have to concede that Rev has taken note of the impact of  
bugs recently, and at the strong urging of their users, has made a  
major push against the little demons in the latest release.  I hope  
this priority placed on dousing this latest release with liberal  
quantities of bugicide will continue in future.  Perhaps every new  
feature release can be followed by a major bug fix release to keep  
the momentum  up on having a clean environment.

Dennis


On Oct 15, 2005, at 4:07 PM, Jim Hurley wrote:

>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 17:10:18 +0200
>> From: Eric Chatonet <eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com>
>> Subject: Re: Did you get a sex change too?
>> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> Message-ID: <BE30B8A0-F281-409A-89B1- 
>> B935E0B95041 at sosmartsoftware.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes;  
>> format=flowed
>>
>> Hi Jim,
>>
>> Bugzilla #2764 (June 2005) entered by Sarah.
>> Bug noted as "new" but a quick test with older versions of Rev show
>> that this bug was present since the introduction of the
>> revSpeechVoices function (Rev 2.0).
>> Does not help at all :-(
>>
>> Le 15 oct. 05 ? 16:48, Jim Hurley a ?crit :
>>
>>
>
> Thanks Eric. That's a long wait to fix something that would so easy  
> to fixed.
>
> But it would also be hard to think of a bug with a lower priority.
>
> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From see3d at writeme.com  Sat Oct 15 17:58:04 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 17:58:04 -0400
Subject: Hello science in TAOO [long]
In-Reply-To: <20051015060251.AD575825110@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051015060251.AD575825110@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <35A5930B-B4E1-484E-AD96-CBFD8D311FE1@writeme.com>

Xavier,

I have kept quiet about my opinion of TAOO until now.  But with all  
the stuff flying around, I figured I could weigh in without being the  
center of controversy.   I am not a fast typist, so I hope you can  
appreciate my efforts at providing some constructive criticism.

Every time you announce a stack or push TAOO as something to look at  
again, I go to your website and download what you have and try it  
out.  I usually find that my attention is diverted from what you are  
trying to show, instead to bugs that cause it not not function or  
other cosmetic flaws on my OS X system.  I get frustrated after about  
10 minutes and throw whatever it is in the trash and think that I  
will wait until you have it fixed and then look at it.  Only problem  
is that the story never seems to change.

As an example, I downloaded the Science.rev stack.  I noticed that  
the buttons were not sized to look their best on my system, so I went  
about resizing buttons, changing them to square, adjusting positions  
a bit.  Then I started looking at the content.  Noticed that the  
categories were not filled in correctly for some of the entries, so I  
edited them.  Then I tried to click on the hyperlinks in the text and  
noticed that none of them worked.  Then I read and enjoyed some of  
the science articles.  I noted that my DEVONthink Pro program would  
have done a much nicer job of doing the small database example in a  
polished way.  Then I realized that I had spent an hour on this and I  
had no idea what I was supposed to learn about TAOO from it.  Time to  
get back to work...

I am sure that TAOO does something useful for you, but I am not sure  
what that is other than a simple free form database in the example.   
I am certain that I have no idea what advantage I could put it to for  
myself, because I don't understand where it fits in with my needs.

I spent the last 7 months programming with Rev full time on what  
seems like a large project to me, though it is only one stack and one  
card at 3k lines of script and growing smaller as I write more!  I  
threw out my design twice as I learned more about the problem I am  
trying to solve, and how to write effecient and maintainable code.   
During that time I went from "What is the message path?" to  
understanding about half of what is in Rev today.  When I started  
out, I did not even fathom the amount of stuff I did not know about  
Rev.  This is a simple program from a system point of view.  It just  
reads in some data files, writes out some reorganized versions of the  
files, generates simulations and statistics on the data and generates  
tables and complex graphs of the results in an interactive way.  When  
I need to add a new function to my program now, I spend hours  
thinking about the problem I am solving and how it fits into my GUI  
and internal framework, from a philosophical and maintainability  
point of view, then I spend a few minutes adding it, and then hours  
testing it.

The point of this is that I understand what I can and can't do in Rev  
now.  I have a clear picture in my mind about all the internal parts  
and how I can put them together to solve a problem.  It took a lot of  
time and effort on my part to get to this point.  I have also stayed  
current with all the posts on this mailing list to help me understand  
some of the many dark corners, and I have also received help from the  
list posters.  I have attended the tutorial conferences which also  
provided me with at least one new trick each.  Without all these  
support tools I would not know half of what I do now about Rev.

Now the question is, how can you create a demo or tutorial that can  
transmit that picture that you have in your mind to others.  It is  
certain that nobody is going to invest months of time trying to  
figure out if it is useful.  You have to be able to show them its  
utility in less than an hour.  You have to spoon feed the concepts  
painlessly.  Nobody wants to fight you for the table scraps.   
Perhaps, you could generate a tutorial written TAOO that shows how to  
use it to solve a problem that is universal to most programmers and  
that you consider to be an area of strength for TAOO.  Think about  
the wonderful tutorial stacks that others have written to promote  
their products or have provided as a service to the community.

If TAOO is worthwhile for others, the time you spend organizing you  
thoughts and writing the tutorial example will be repaid ten times  
over in the future with praise, collaboration, and improved utility  
of TAOO.  Also don't forget that a picture is worth a thousand words.

If you can't justify the effort to do this, then don't expect the  
future to be any different than the past.

Dennis




From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Oct 15 18:21:16 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 17:21:16 -0500
Subject: [FIX] libSmtp 2.5.2 bugfix (apologies to the list members)
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-F30D6183673D3C0A6F13F4DC37C0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY105-F30D6183673D3C0A6F13F4DC37C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <435180DC.4090505@chipp.com>

Thanks for posting it Sean. I think it's completely appropriate to post 
fixes here!

best,
Chipp

Sean Shao wrote:
> Sorry to post this to the mailing list, but I figure that the majority 
> of the SMTP library users are subscribed.


From alex at tweedly.net  Sat Oct 15 18:25:44 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:25:44 +0100
Subject: Math wizardry
In-Reply-To: <OFC9A07610.8855EE67-ON8525709B.0067D47D@sealedair.com>
References: <OFC9A07610.8855EE67-ON8525709B.0067D47D@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <435181E8.10709@tweedly.net>

Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:

>
>Hello Jim(s),
>
>I was trying to use this function with a real-world problem and it isn't 
>giving me the result (an angle between 1 and 360) that I expected. I have 
>an image object (a scan of some text). The image wasn't scanned straight, 
>so I thought I would draw a grc line in parallel with the text in the 
>scan. I am trying to use the functions above to determine the angle of the 
>grc line object so that I can rotate the image to make it straight. The 
>function always returns a number that is less than 3. Can someone explain 
>why this is or offer another way to determine the angle of a line? Math is 
>NOT my strength.
>
>  
>
There are two "scales" used to measure angle
 - degrees (from 0 to 360 for the complete circle)
 - radians (from 0 to pi for the complete circle)

So simply multiply your result by  (360 / pi)



-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/2005



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Oct 15 18:40:05 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 15:40:05 -0700
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs
	TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <4350635D.2010005@tweedly.net>
References: <OF35B56E59.B560395E-ONC125709A.00264755-C125709A.00281EC5@deutsche-boerse	.com>	<p06230904bf7582b038ac@[192.168.1.101]>
	<4350635D.2010005@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <43518545.2020308@fourthworld.com>

Alex Tweedly wrote:
> I think it's an interesting characteristic of Rev - there is a huge 
> amount freely given "open source" Rev stacks.
> 
> But, as far as I know, there have been few examples of successful, 
> completed *collaborative* open source developments in Rev.

The MetaCard IDE has been maintained and enhanced for a few years with 
the contributions of more than half a dozen people.

Our "collaboration technology" is pretty simple: email.

We use the MC discussion list to discuss what features to add, find a 
person to add them, while that person's working we know not to bother 
making changes to that stack, and then the stack is done it's cloned 
out, emailed to me, and I clone it back in to the master.

We don't advocate that this is any sort of ultimate solution, even for a 
project as small as the MC IDE.

But it may help others considering collaborative projects to remember 
that getting work done is not dependent on first setting up some 
complicated system to keep track of it all.  It's too easy to let 
initial enthusiasm get dissipated in that sort of "analysis paralysis".

In many cases it can be more productive to just gather up your 
collaborators, look at what needs to be done, and decide who'll do it.

You can solve little things like moving around files and integrating 
them into the master build as you go.

That stuff is easy.

The hard part is retaining and utilizing human energy.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Oct 15 18:54:51 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 17:54:51 -0500
Subject: what in the TAO is happening?
In-Reply-To: <20051015184905.14E6F8251B4@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051015184905.14E6F8251B4@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <435188BB.6030001@chipp.com>



MisterX wrote:

> if they can understand ajax or ruby on rails, and they can understand rev,
> im sure they can understand TAOO! And I do think I try to exemplify what I
> say to avoid this. Should I mention also it does pie charts and how good
> that is for your business like a certain office type of line of products? Im
> sure we all see that possible.

Xavier,

The big reason for the fuss over AJAX or Ruby on Rails is because they 
have been used to do something rarely if ever seen before. That is: 
building applications within a single web page. The success of these 
applications are what DRIVE developers to spend the time to UNDERSTAND 
these 'platforms.'

And here's why.

When I (or developers in general) look at an AJAX app, be it GMAIL, or 
WRITELY, or other, I think to myself, "hmmm, there's a commercial 
opportunity here." IOW, these apps have proven it's possible, now how 
can I use this to solve my customer's problems? The fact is, much of the 
hard trailblazing work has been done, and the proof is in the commercial 
deployment (mostly bugfree!) application.

To date, no such animal exists for TAOO, thus IMO, you'll find it most 
difficult to engage others.

I agree with Dennis, most of us already 'know' our own best way to 
program Rev. I doubt you'll find Ken Ray or Richard Gaskin looking for 
new architectures to base their projects on. In fact, they probably have 
(as I do) bunches of libraries which are interchangeable from project to 
project. We don't call them TAOO, but in fact they do provide a 'code 
once, use everywhere' function for us. In fact, these libraries are 
often so personal in style and structure, we don't share them...not 
because we're stingy, but because it would take too much time to prepare 
them for ubiquitous use by others. Just ask Ken how much time he has in 
his XML parsing library!

Unfortunately, your sense of GUI design, while most colorful, does 
create a bit of confusion for your 'testers.' I might suggest you 
consider finding anothers style and copying it-- TAOO will be more 
manageable, approachable and clearer with clean design.

You see, (unlike my understanding of Judy's posts) it's very difficult 
to separate form from function. Good designers know this. In fact, many 
would argue form is function and vice versa. So, consider the form of 
your demos, as well as the function. In fact, I encourage you to 
consider the 'form' of TAOO as well. Up to now, there has been little 
form outside of hyperbole and platitudes. Well designed products, even 
middleware, have form to them.

Best wishes to you and TAOO,

Chipp



From Revinfo1155 at aol.com  Sat Oct 15 19:57:52 2005
From: Revinfo1155 at aol.com (Revinfo1155 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:57:52 EDT
Subject: Revolution back to HyperCard
Message-ID: <97.6a2410ad.3082f180@aol.com>

Thank you guys for posting the find script for message box. I've been trying 
to get that done for a year. Now for a related question. In hypercard you 
could build a standalone which included a message box. Can this be done in Rev?

Jack


From simplsol at aol.com  Sat Oct 15 20:33:32 2005
From: simplsol at aol.com (simplsol at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:33:32 -0400
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO [|Not so Short]
In-Reply-To: <20051015145933.0343F824FEA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <8C7A0005F54B78B-E34-56F3@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com>

Xavier,
1. Give me an example of a stack more easily made in TAOO than in Rev.
2. Show me a specific example of "auto-organizing"
3. Show me an example of "auto-relating"
I really don't know what you are talking about.
Paul Looney

-----Original Message-----
From: MisterX <b.xavier at internet.lu>
To: 'How to use Revolution' <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 17:29:47 +0200
Subject: RE: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO [|Not so Short]


> Or as good marketing people also say:
> "Sell the sizzle not the steak."
> What it "is" counts for little, what it "does" is everything.
> Or as good marketing people put it:
> "Never list a feature without describing its benefits."
> What is different about TAOO? And why should I care?
> Paul Looney

Paul

if it makes your job to create stack easier and gives you more
features for the bang, isn't it worth it? And I do mean long-term!

If it auto-organizes things so you don't have to each time, it's
worth it!

If it auto-relates information so it's easier to retrieve it later, that
much smarter you go...

Like everything, there's a learning curve and a cost to use it. One you 
add
on top of your current projects and efforts. But what if the benefits 
dwarf
the cost in the medium term?

As an economist, I say TAOO is build against error making, 
self-management.
The rest is just more complete GUIs for your clients and a real 
competitive
edge... And that's worth the risk!

cheers
Xavier

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use-revolution mailing list
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Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription
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From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Oct 15 20:36:56 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 17:36:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <BF760918.22CE4%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510151734050.7729-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

And, I would agree IF it were demonstrable that this is what actually
happens.  I just don't think it does.  I don't see it happening among
either faculty OR students.

On a bit of a bummer midway through grading midterm exams.  Sorry.

:-(

Judy

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005, Scott Rossi wrote:

> IMO, the use of templates/themes is not an attempt to discourage thinking
> outside the box.  It is an attempt to illuminate the fact that there is, in
> fact, a box present, which has certain properties and rules, and one must
> learn the limitations of the box before one can learn to think outside it.
>
> What you may see as "dumbing down", others may see as education.



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Oct 15 20:39:28 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 17:39:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO [|Not so Short]
In-Reply-To: <84.4fe0c7f8.30827020@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510151737420.7729-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Or, "sell it for what people think it will do for them" ala "use this
shampoo and you can have your own 'When Harry Met Sally' moment".

;-)

Judy

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 SimPLsol at aol.com wrote:

> Or as good marketing people also say:
> "Sell the sizzle not the steak."
> What it "is" counts for little, what it "does" is everything. Or as good
> marketing people put it:
> "Never list a feature without describing its benefits."
> What is different about TAOO? And why should I care?



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Oct 15 22:27:53 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:27:53 -0700
Subject: Scripting conference this week -- forgot to mention it
In-Reply-To: <43514207.6060902@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <43514207.6060902@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <15633932272.20051015192753@ahsoftware.net>

Jacque-

Saturday, October 15, 2005, 10:53:11 AM, you wrote:

> Today's scripting conference was canceled, due to a number of 
> unavoidable circumstances. I meant to announce that yesterday, but 

> Just a heads-up: Jerry's conference in two weeks will also not take
> place, though his stack will be available for download later. Again,

Hmmm. Seems like something's afoot in Texas...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Oct 15 22:32:02 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:32:02 -0700
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510151734050.7729-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510151734050.7729-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <18534181500.20051015193202@ahsoftware.net>

Judy-

Saturday, October 15, 2005, 5:36:56 PM, you wrote:

> And, I would agree IF it were demonstrable that this is what actually
> happens.  I just don't think it does.  I don't see it happening among
> either faculty OR students.

My observation is that Scott is one of those rare folks who are able
to see the outside walls of the box while the rest of us are still
working on discovering that we're in a box at all...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Oct 16 00:17:42 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 06:17:42 +0200
Subject: on the topic of TAOO
In-Reply-To: <7263E4E7-D175-4F88-B751-85551E781203@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20051016034722.71B61825110@mail.runrev.com>

I'll try to give a few short answers as this starts to really get detailed
or repetivive one way or the other... ;)

First, I want to thank all those who had written back.

Andre wrote

> maybe the "problem" with TAOO is that it's so tuned to your 
> workflow and the way you think, that we're not able to 
> understand it due to the fact we're not you. Sometimes we 
> build software to serve our own necessity and those softwares 
> are the hardest to explain for they need to serve only for 
> us, they were not created so that everyone could understand them.

I see your point but the other point is that the gui I present is
rather "standard" in composition: Menus, index, views of the object
or card or record in a tab. 

Open your history pane or favorites pane
in your web browser, and you will see what I mean. It?s the same
in the explorer, firefox, avantbrowser, the same again in outlook,
NetBackup, and so on...

The workflow GUI is standard. The way things work internally is "clearly"
explained in the documentation.


> To illustrate, let me tell you of a software that I use all 
> the time while coding in Rev and yet I never shared. I call 
> it "Alfred", it's as hard to explain as TAOO for it's very 
> abstract, yet I make use of it everyday. Alfred is a stack, 
> with only one input field and nothing more. The heart of 
> Alfred is a clever RegEx generator/parser that is generated 
> and executed at runtime. See, no one can understand it!?!?  
> Now, let us explain what problem Alfred solves so that people 
> can understand about it. One thing I hate is to keep 
> switching applications, I like the apple newton model where 
> everything is at your fingertip, one feature I like best of 
> the newt is the "Assist"  
> feature that enables me to write phrases like "have lunch 
> with britney spears tomorrow" and it will parse it for me and 
> book an appointment with britiney spears for me tomorrow in 
> the calendar, also it will fetch britney contact from the 
> contact database if present. I can almost talk with a newt 
> using the Assist feature. I missed that on my mac, so I built 
> Alfred to clone that, by clever use of RegEx expressions I 
> can tell alfred to do things for me, like booking 
> appointments, stick notes, sending emails, browsing to 
> pages.... So in the end, what Alfred enables me is never to 
> leave Rev and work from there. Alfred is tied to iCal, Apple 
> Mail and AddressBook so it can use data from all this 
> applications (even the terminal is now hooked, sending shell 
> commands). If I simply shared Alfred, people would look and 
> ask all sorts of questions like why he's generating the 
> parsing routine at runtime? Thats why I never shared the 
> thing, until I polish it so anyone can understand and make 
> use of it, it will stay at my HD (and in the HD of those that 
> want to see my spaghetti code).

What you say I understand clearly. The app you mention sounds
great and comparable to something I tried to work on long ago.
But I had no objects, no verbs so I couldn't make it work until
that set of verbs and objects were known to the system. Which is
one result of all these libraries, their modular workflow and
resulting organization (not rev dependent).

> Maybe you should start thinking as a stranger, like, would a 
> stranger without my background, understand this? One thing I 
> learned from Sivakatriswami is that "documenting is half the 
> fun"? By documenting as you code, you'll sure make TAOO more 
> understendable for us. Like, make a pool, let the community 
> ask questions, go building on top of those questions like a 
> FAQ, then, some time later, it will be easy to understand TAOO

I tried that but no one asked questions. When they did, my
answers were still confusing. There's only one way to explain
a concept and I tried to use examples, analogies... still it
doesn't go through... Yet it's so simple and obvious (at least
to me). I know it's not that they didn't try nor that the 
concept is so alien. so my explanations must be the problem...

If I try to think as the developper, or the user, I explain it
that way as "oop control objects, etc" or as client records etc...

it's hard to say what is wrong. I tried to put up a forum and 
it wasn't so easy to manage after all - so im redoing my web site
in a more flexible environmnt - wiki - which hopefully will be
more inviting and clearer to the reader.

You could say that between TAOO and TikiWiki, the main difference 
is the underlying language that runs it... Is that easier to grasp?

I don?t think it does the concept justice (for either environment)...
We'll see in the future...

cheers
Xavier



From katir at hindu.org  Sun Oct 16 00:24:50 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 18:24:50 -1000
Subject: FTP very SlooooW!
In-Reply-To: <A06E0BB5-B97C-412D-AD51-7176BEF08544@hindu.org>
References: <5FF11495-AC87-4149-BC46-C208AB016722@hindu.org>
	<9B128142-3309-4E4D-8495-3BFEDC5EF350@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<1EAC9A7C-D99A-4C38-80D7-128FC7A70BEA@hindu.org>
	<80CCB465-166F-41FE-8486-69374541F9C5@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<A06E0BB5-B97C-412D-AD51-7176BEF08544@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <48B2DC1E-18B5-4D9E-8875-543ACDC68892@hindu.org>

Please add this to the "Super Bloopers" list for future reference.  
I've been emailing Dave on the side about my molasses FTP handlers...  
today I found the problem.

I was not clearing my "ftp log" field on start up.  This means that  
field contained the transcripts, appended, day after day,  for all  
FTP sessions for our daily web page upload since October 2004! minus  
weekends that's about 250 session logs, one after the other, in that  
field.

It's a hidden field... today, as usual the upload was excruciatingly  
slow... I decided to check the FTP log field only  to discover that  
it must have held a megabyte of data or more!  While the upload was  
in progress, from the msg box I issued

put empty into fld "ftp log"

The field cleared and immediately the upload speed jumped to almost  
the same speeds I get with Interarchy using SFTP...

While this solves the slow down problem, it also says something Rev's  
speed issues, when large amounts of data are be handled in fields. I  
suspect, were I to try it, that appending that data to a disk on file  
probably would not affect operations...

On Oct 14, 2005, at 6:21 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Dave
>
> Thanks for taking a "crack" at it... OK, well, your script worked  
> "out of the box" i.e. untested but no errors. It did block any  
> feedback from my "watch" field so I didn't know what was  
> happening... I though at first Rev was locked up...  but then  the  
> page loaded from the remote serve and it was clear the script ran  
> just fine.
>
> But, no speed gain.
>
> Thanks anyway.. Maybe you will do SFTP one day ?
>
> Sivakatirswami
>
>
>
> On Oct 14, 2005, at 12:18 PM, Dave Cragg wrote:
>
>
>> on uploadNext
>> try
>>   repeat while tFiles is not empty then
>>    if char 1 of tFiles <> "." then
>>      put tUrlStem & tFolder & (line 1 of tFiles) into tUrl
>>      put tSourcePath &  (line 1 of tFiles) into tFilePath
>>      put "loading... " & tURL & tFilePath into fld "Watch"
>>      put url ("binfile:" & tFilePath) into tDataToSend
>>      if the result <> empty then throw "Can't open file" && tFilePath
>>      put tDataToSend into url tUrl
>>      if the result <> empty then throw "Upload failed" && tUrl &&  
>> the result
>>      delete line 1 of tFiles
>>
>>   else
>>      delete line 1 of tFiles
>>      next repeat
>>   end if
>>
>>  end repeat
>>
>>  put  "Upload Complete!"  into fld "watch"
>>  set the directory to "/Users/katir/"  # just to release the  
>> volume on the LAN server.
>>  revGoURL "http://www.himalayanacademy.com/taka/"
>>
>> catch pErr
>>    answer the result
>> end try
>> end uploadNext
>>
>
>



From kee at kagi.com  Sun Oct 16 00:28:49 2005
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 21:28:49 -0700
Subject: FTP very SlooooW!
In-Reply-To: <48B2DC1E-18B5-4D9E-8875-543ACDC68892@hindu.org>
References: <5FF11495-AC87-4149-BC46-C208AB016722@hindu.org>
	<9B128142-3309-4E4D-8495-3BFEDC5EF350@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<1EAC9A7C-D99A-4C38-80D7-128FC7A70BEA@hindu.org>
	<80CCB465-166F-41FE-8486-69374541F9C5@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<A06E0BB5-B97C-412D-AD51-7176BEF08544@hindu.org>
	<48B2DC1E-18B5-4D9E-8875-543ACDC68892@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <9019CB13-D48F-48D7-B4D8-061955E2F15F@kagi.com>


On Oct 15, 2005, at 9:24 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote:
>
> While this solves the slow down problem, it also says something  
> Rev's speed issues, when large amounts of data are be handled in  
> fields. I suspect, were I to try it, that appending that data to a  
> disk on file probably would not affect operations...

False Assumption

To write the data to disk it will most likely open the file, read to  
the end, then append the data and save the file. Perhaps it will be  
faster than saving into a field but most likely it too will slow down  
as the file grows in size. Your best bet is to rotate the log files  
when they get to a specified size. Letting a log file grow will  
eventually cause the same problem you experienced with a text field.

Kee Nethery



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Oct 16 00:32:32 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 06:32:32 +0200
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO [|Not so Short]
In-Reply-To: <8C7A0005F54B78B-E34-56F3@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20051016040211.8BA798251D5@mail.runrev.com>

Paul

> Xavier,
> 1. Give me an example of a stack more easily made in TAOO than in Rev.

DiscreteBrowser, TAOO documentation, Science... 
Different applications, same GUIs

> 2. Show me a specific example of "auto-organizing"

The "category" or keyword or link based index is still in the works so I
can't do this yet. In concept, it works like the select keyword in SQL. If
you want to move or copy or manage a number of objects in a group, you can
filter them via the "Category, Type, or any property" of the object.

As for the GUI, the TabMenus auto-organize the different views possible to
an object and its properties.

> 3. Show me an example of "auto-relating"

Click on Keywords or Categories. Click on a keyword or category to see the
related items. To be added at an ulterior stage is the possibility to manage
those (not just browse and go there) more implicitely - like you can manage
the current object but via a context menu for example...

> I really don't know what you are talking about.

If you use any application made with a framework, you do...
It's like building a house with legos. You don't know what a single lego
piece can be for. But it's easy to see that you can take the garage and put
it on top of the second floor (not that it's practical) but if you rename
the garage to helicopter house, you automatically (as a kid) know what to do
with your helicopter. 

Since TAOO is a framework with a builtin logic that abstracts what the
subject to the simple naming of the file, it's too easy to miss the point.

But you call a database contacts or products or sales because that's their
intention. Inside them, the components are the same and based on a framework
concept so you can store and relate information in it. But you already knew
that... Samething in TAOO for Rev... 

> Paul Looney

Thanks for the questions, I'll add them to the new web site!
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/tiki



From katir at hindu.org  Sun Oct 16 00:34:50 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 18:34:50 -1000
Subject: OT: Wikis
In-Reply-To: <20051016034722.71B61825110@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051016034722.71B61825110@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <55869C57-BE72-4790-B394-3B9339CFF42D@hindu.org>

<start my favorite tools besides rev>

We see frequent mention of wikis here... if you haven't tried it or  
just getting started with wiki's PMWiki is absolutely fabulous in  
terms of flexibility, easy of admin and online support. 100% PHP but  
you don't have to know a drop of PHP to get it up and running.

well, almost... a few lines in the config files are needed. I don't  
know PHP, but had this thing installed and running on our servers in  
a few hours and since then it hardly take any of my time....

see

pmwiki.org

which is by the way an excellent model in itself for the kind of site  
we need for Rev in terms of documentation, cook book central, issues  
etc.

<end tools>

On Oct 15, 2005, at 6:17 PM, MisterX wrote:

>  so im redoing my web site
> in a more flexible environmnt - wiki - which hopefully will be
> more inviting and clearer to the reader.



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sun Oct 16 01:06:09 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:06:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <18534181500.20051015193202@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510152155230.10422-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Mark,

I don't doubt Scott's sincerity at all.  Nor do I doubt Chipp's or Dan's
or ...

That's part of my argument: They're not the people likely to be seduced by
the persuasive technology.

I'm in agreement with Chipp re: the 'copying the Masters' philosophy:
except that Microsoft doesn't begin to be a 'master' in an artistic sense,
and, secondly, I've not seen anyone offer proof that Microsoft's target
audience ever moves on.

It's a crutch.  Or, can someone demonstrate that it is not?

I'm open-minded, whether via philosophic means or the existence of
numerous holes in the conical cranium remains to be seen... @;-)

Judy

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Judy-
>
> My observation is that Scott is one of those rare folks who are able
> to see the outside walls of the box while the rest of us are still
> working on discovering that we're in a box at all...



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Oct 16 02:34:03 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 08:34:03 +0200
Subject: Hello science in TAOO [long]
In-Reply-To: <35A5930B-B4E1-484E-AD96-CBFD8D311FE1@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <20051016060342.946E0825066@mail.runrev.com>

Hi Dennis

Thanks for looking into it and for your time in writing this down.

As I appreciate your (and everyone's) comments, don't take my tone wrong.
I'll just "reply" factually...

> Xavier,
> 
> I have kept quiet about my opinion of TAOO until now.  But 
> with all the stuff flying around, I figured I could weigh in 
> without being the  
> center of controversy.   I am not a fast typist, so I hope you can  
> appreciate my efforts at providing some constructive criticism.

im a slow reader, don't worry :)

> Every time you announce a stack or push TAOO as something to 
> look at again, I go to your website and download what you 
> have and try it out.  I usually find that my attention is 
> diverted from what you are trying to show, instead to bugs 
> that cause it not not function or other cosmetic flaws on my 
> OS X system. 

Dennis, this is my most frustrating problem. While Rev is cross platform, it
is not easy to port things around. 

If you made mac improvements, please send them back so I can add that to the
next release for mac user's enjoyment! I don't have an osx system and
limited budget (no osx mac yet).

> I get frustrated after about 10 minutes and 
> throw whatever it is in the trash and think that I will wait 
> until you have it fixed and then look at it.  Only problem is 
> that the story never seems to change.

That's because "VERY VERY FEW" people will reply with the issues encountered
so that I can fix them on the spot! I try to test a maximum. 

Sometimes the good testers among you send me a screenshot and AHA! I can see
why it's wrong.

In another case, I kept getting the comment "gui too busy". I didn't
understand it because the user never showed it in pictures and just
described it in frustration as I kept getting it wrong. Then I saw the
picture... 

The GUI in Rev on Win2000 is not the same visible gui in XP or in OSX. And
it's not the colors! The frames of the buttons, their patterns and their
icons show differently!!! The rect of a button is the same, yet the visible
rect is 1 to 2 pixels in xp or osx than in windows 2000. I don't have an osx
system and I develop in the least capable gui of w2k and test later on XP.

Patterns that look ok in PCs don't on Macs! It's alluring how hard this is.
And I don't have much time to do graphic guis in a paint program if the gui
is changing so often and patterns don't work correctly across OS - given
correct sizing of media as stipulated in revdocs.

> As an example, I downloaded the Science.rev stack.  I noticed 
> that the buttons were not sized to look their best on my 
> system, so I went about resizing buttons, changing them to 
> square, adjusting positions a bit.  Then I started looking at 
> the content.  Noticed that the categories were not filled in 
> correctly for some of the entries, so I edited them.  Then I 
> tried to click on the hyperlinks in the text and noticed that 
> none of them worked.  Then I read and enjoyed some of the 
> science articles.  I noted that my DEVONthink Pro program 
> would have done a much nicer job of doing the small database 
> example in a polished way.  Then I realized that I had spent 
> an hour on this and I had no idea what I was supposed to 
> learn about TAOO from it.  Time to get back to work...

Yes but...

when I mentioned the URL of the Science stack, I said the stack wasn't
finished.
Sorry about the menus. That part is fixed in the TAOO documentation.

The TAOO Documentation is a much more evolved version of the science stack
that was the "testbed" for the same functionalities that are in Science. I
believe the hyperlinks work in that stack.

> I am sure that TAOO does something useful for you, but I am not sure  
> what that is other than a simple free form database in the example.   
> I am certain that I have no idea what advantage I could put 
> it to for myself, because I don't understand where it fits in 
> with my needs.

One key goal in TAOO is to provide easy db management with 
regular language any user can type in the message box (As Andre's
wizard stack in another magic land). So verbobject thisobject is
easier to remember and use than GetObjectProperty SetObjectProperty
and it can be extended really any scale: 

StartService "FTPService" 
createObject "contact"

What TAOO does behind, is look for your object, do it in grace
and report anything (or not). 

createObject "product", productData 

is another extension. but taoo will do what you expect and fill
in the data correctly. (unfinished part due to so many formats
out there)

> I spent the last 7 months programming with Rev full time on 
> what seems like a large project to me, though it is only one 
> stack and one card at 3k lines of script and growing smaller 
> as I write more!  I threw out my design twice as I learned 
> more about the problem I am  
> trying to solve, and how to write effecient and maintainable code.   

Welcome to the club. After 15 years, you might get a big library
of reusable functions like TAOO has. Over a 1000 in dozens of 
different components - single or composite gui components. 

[snip]

> Now the question is, how can you create a demo or tutorial 
> that can transmit that picture that you have in your mind to 
> others.  It is certain that nobody is going to invest months 
> of time trying to figure out if it is useful.  You have to be 
> able to show them its utility in less than an hour.  You have 
> to spoon feed the concepts  
> painlessly.  Nobody wants to fight you for the table scraps.   
> Perhaps, you could generate a tutorial written TAOO that 
> shows how to use it to solve a problem that is universal to 
> most programmers and that you consider to be an area of 
> strength for TAOO.  Think about the wonderful tutorial stacks 
> that others have written to promote their products or have 
> provided as a service to the community.

Marielle, Dan, and many have suggested this. 
Yet that's usually how I try to deliver stacks "when" they fit the format.

Again, and as often as I repeat it, they are valid examples of how simple
and complex things can be in any framework. You can't avoid some large
functions sometimes or lots of code for little functions. But writing in the
most modular way all your code is how it should be done to improve the
chances  that the code you write can be reused.

WHY reuse? why modular? why distributed or scalable? (I keep it simple, but
it goes far and wide in IT terms)

think VerbObject for a moment... it tells you exactly what the function
does.

It's not hard to remember and easy to suggest.

So you think

SortClients

if you write the button SortClients, you can only reuse it in your clients
stack (logically speaking ;). Or you'll have to rename the handler each time
you port it to another application to do sorts. 

Instead if you name it SortObjects, the handler does this in TAOO:

on SortObjects what
  if what is empty then put the long name of this stack into what
  sort cards of what
end SortObjects

I'll have more and simpler stack demos in the near future...


> If TAOO is worthwhile for others, the time you spend 
> organizing you thoughts and writing the tutorial example will 
> be repaid ten times over in the future with praise, 
> collaboration, and improved utility of TAOO.  Also don't 
> forget that a picture is worth a thousand words.

Unfortunately, I tried that. And generated new ideas like crazy!

Now that I reread the introduction, it's obvious I have lots of editing to
do!


I had to stop to stick to the essentials of the system and for
the sake of releasing something sometime soon. The TAOO documentation
is however pretty complete imoho - as far as the concept means and
how it works. Interpreting what a framework can do for you, I can't
do - but if you suggest an example, I might show you how this could
help you... 

So im reediting for the xth time the documentation ;)

> If you can't justify the effort to do this, then don't expect 
> the future to be any different than the past.

if the description doesn't sum up the issue, try with a picture or ask the
right question. Point well taken! ;)

Thanks for the effort and ideas Dennis, you seem to have become an
accomplished scripter in little time!!! I hope to do as well to entice you
to use TAOO later or sooner.

Cheers
Xavier



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Oct 16 03:10:16 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 00:10:16 -0700
Subject: Hello science in TAOO [long]
In-Reply-To: <20051016060342.946E0825066@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051016060342.946E0825066@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4351FCD8.90608@fourthworld.com>

MisterX wrote:

>>I get frustrated after about 10 minutes and 
>>throw whatever it is in the trash and think that I will wait 
>>until you have it fixed and then look at it.  Only problem is 
>>that the story never seems to change.
> 
> That's because "VERY VERY FEW" people will reply with the issues encountered
> so that I can fix them on the spot! I try to test a maximum. 

All software always has bugs.

That said, most useful software has so few bugs that the utility of the 
work is self-evident long before the first bug is encountered.

So while it may not be cost-effective to attempt to deliver one of the 
world's few (only?) bug-free wares, at a minimum the developer must 
catch and address enough bugs themselves that the user will be 
sufficiently hooked by the work before they encounter the first annoyance.

If the user encounters annoyances before the utility of the work is 
self-evident, one can harldy blame them for simply moving on with their 
busy day.

If as the creator of the toolkit you feel folks are missing out by not 
using your tool, bugs and all, consider this:

To the degree that your tool truly helps developers be more productive, 
you'll still be able to deploy an ever greater number of high-quality 
commercial applications with it, and with less competition as fewer 
people use it.

Ship successful software, and users of the library that made that 
possible will follow.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Oct 16 03:44:11 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 09:44:11 +0200
Subject: Hello science in TAOO [long]
In-Reply-To: <4351FCD8.90608@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20051016071351.A2BE78250DF@mail.runrev.com>

But Richard, 

You miss the point that one can only do so much testing and still depend
lots on the user's feedback - user or tester alike! Look at Rev's bugzilla
database and how it helps them make happy users each release.

Which is why I haven't released much other than the working stacks and not
the other 20 million features. I guess missing features are better than
non-working features ;) Then, like a famous software, new releases break old
working features...

I haven't released my spell checker because of a "couple" bugs only... And I
don?t use it "that" often nor was there much demand so other more important
features warrant more attention... When that part is finished and tested and
running, I'll be releasing much more... Moires are easy, real applications
are not... 

That being said, when I thought I had really removed all the bugs in the
MoireX program, TJFrame found one in 2 clicks after he started using the
app! ouch! 

cheers
Xavier



> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Richard Gaskin
> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 9:10 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Hello science in TAOO [long]
> 
> MisterX wrote:
> 
> >>I get frustrated after about 10 minutes and throw whatever it is in 
> >>the trash and think that I will wait until you have it 
> fixed and then 
> >>look at it.  Only problem is that the story never seems to change.
> > 
> > That's because "VERY VERY FEW" people will reply with the issues 
> > encountered so that I can fix them on the spot! I try to 
> test a maximum.
> 
> All software always has bugs.
> 
> That said, most useful software has so few bugs that the 
> utility of the work is self-evident long before the first bug 
> is encountered.
> 
> So while it may not be cost-effective to attempt to deliver 
> one of the world's few (only?) bug-free wares, at a minimum 
> the developer must catch and address enough bugs themselves 
> that the user will be sufficiently hooked by the work before 
> they encounter the first annoyance.
> 
> If the user encounters annoyances before the utility of the 
> work is self-evident, one can harldy blame them for simply 
> moving on with their busy day.
> 
> If as the creator of the toolkit you feel folks are missing 
> out by not using your tool, bugs and all, consider this:
> 
> To the degree that your tool truly helps developers be more 
> productive, you'll still be able to deploy an ever greater 
> number of high-quality commercial applications with it, and 
> with less competition as fewer people use it.
> 
> Ship successful software, and users of the library that made 
> that possible will follow.
> 
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Managing Editor, revJournal
>   _______________________________________________________
>   Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Oct 16 04:02:28 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 10:02:28 +0200
Subject: ANN: New Website for TAOO
Message-ID: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>


Monsieurx.com is being revamped silently into Wiki and without the wacky
MisterX's adventure content.

You can come and preview the website at http://monsieurx.com/wiki

I think you will like it, it's more to the point and I'll be working hard to
make it easier to understand... 

your comments are welcome, join in and send your questions to the faq and
don?t be shy to comment or suggest articles and examples you would like to
see...

regards
Xavier



From psahores at easynet.fr  Sun Oct 16 04:13:42 2005
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 10:13:42 +0200
Subject: ANN: New Website for TAOO
In-Reply-To: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <23EFFF1C-0519-4982-AD70-FECF03184CD1@easynet.fr>

Aloha Xavier,

Link seems broken ;-/

Best,

Pierre

Le 16 oct. 05 ? 10:02, MisterX a ?crit :

>
> Monsieurx.com is being revamped silently into Wiki and without the  
> wacky
> MisterX's adventure content.
>
> You can come and preview the website at http://monsieurx.com/wiki
>
> I think you will like it, it's more to the point and I'll be  
> working hard to
> make it easier to understand...
>
> your comments are welcome, join in and send your questions to the  
> faq and
> don?t be shy to comment or suggest articles and examples you would  
> like to
> see...
>
> regards
> Xavier
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>




From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Oct 16 04:34:25 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 03:34:25 -0500
Subject: ANN: New Website for TAOO
In-Reply-To: <23EFFF1C-0519-4982-AD70-FECF03184CD1@easynet.fr>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>
	<23EFFF1C-0519-4982-AD70-FECF03184CD1@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <43521091.7030804@chipp.com>

Yep, I can see it, but can't navigate anywhere. I get "Login Error" 
everywhere.

Firefox on WinXP

Pierre Sahores wrote:
> Aloha Xavier,
> 
> Link seems broken ;-/


From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Oct 16 06:45:12 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:45:12 +0100
Subject: OT: Wikis
In-Reply-To: <55869C57-BE72-4790-B394-3B9339CFF42D@hindu.org>
References: <20051016034722.71B61825110@mail.runrev.com>
	<55869C57-BE72-4790-B394-3B9339CFF42D@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <43522F38.7090707@tweedly.net>

Sivakatirswami wrote:

>
> We see frequent mention of wikis here... if you haven't tried it or  
> just getting started with wiki's PMWiki is absolutely fabulous in  
> terms of flexibility, easy of admin and online support. 100% PHP but  
> you don't have to know a drop of PHP to get it up and running.
>
<start grumpy old man response>

I don't doubt that PMWiki is an excellent tool for creating a Wiki.

What I doubt is whether a Wiki is an excellent tool for documenting 
anything. I've seen some good wikis - but I've seen far, far more of 
them that I thought were poor.

For most topics or areas to document or describe, the most important 
thing to get right is the organization of the data. I've seen a number 
of wikis that contained huge quantities of information - but I could 
never find what I wanted without a lot of effort.  Wikis make it easy to 
add new categories - so it's easy to have too many categories, or 
individual articles mis-categorized.

If the categorization is obvious (e.g. alphabetical, or a hierarchical 
class library API, or ....) then a wiki should work well. Otherwise, it 
needs a good "owner" to keep it in shape, move new items if needed, and 
provide the structure and consistency that makes it be a useful 
repository for information rather than a "write-only" heap.

(Think of our many discussions on Rev's documentation - having the info 
in there is not helpful if you can't find it easily when you want it).

<end of Sunday morning grump - time for a coffee :-) >

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/2005



From david at openpartnership.net  Sun Oct 16 09:47:08 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (david bovill)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 15:47:08 +0200
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs
	TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <43518545.2020308@fourthworld.com>
References: <OF35B56E59.B560395E-ONC125709A.00264755-C125709A.00281EC5@deutsche-boerse	.com>	<p06230904bf7582b038ac@[192.168.1.101]>
	<4350635D.2010005@tweedly.net> <43518545.2020308@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <F7FD743C-8B76-4724-B142-9AE15663EEB4@openpartnership.net>

> Maybe a good place to start with an open source community project  
> would be
> for to build a RevCVS.
>
> Am I crazy or what?

Not unless I am :) I used for a year of so CVS built into the  
Metacard environment I wrote. All script suites were exported into  
CVS, and individual handlers documented referenced and stored as well.

CVS does not handle binaries so well, so  to keep track with the open  
source guys we are moving over to SVN. Trac is a system that combines  
CVS with subversion source code management (SVN). Hope to get this up  
and running in the next month for those in Rev community that wish to  
use it.

Richard has a different take on this:

On 16 Oct 2005, at 00:40, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> But it may help others considering collaborative projects to  
> remember that getting work done is not dependent on first setting  
> up some complicated system to keep track of it all.  It's too easy  
> to let initial enthusiasm get dissipated in that sort of "analysis  
> paralysis".

Which is very true. Still what would we do without the fools that  
ignore good advice :)


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Oct 16 10:02:35 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:02:35 +0200
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vsTAOO]
In-Reply-To: <F7FD743C-8B76-4724-B142-9AE15663EEB4@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <20051016133210.2C012824FE4@mail.runrev.com>

that's very interesting!

Will it be in a library format ? ;)

startCVS
commitCVS
killCVS

loadCVS
replacethiswithCVSthat... 

My script editor has a versioning with subversion however it's
stored into the control and not yet into a separate repository (ideally)... 

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> david bovill
> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 3:47 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. 
> AJAX... Ajax vsTAOO]
> 
> > Maybe a good place to start with an open source community project 
> > would be for to build a RevCVS.
> >
> > Am I crazy or what?
> 
> Not unless I am :) I used for a year of so CVS built into the 
> Metacard environment I wrote. All script suites were exported 
> into CVS, and individual handlers documented referenced and 
> stored as well.
> 
> CVS does not handle binaries so well, so  to keep track with 
> the open source guys we are moving over to SVN. Trac is a 
> system that combines CVS with subversion source code 
> management (SVN). Hope to get this up and running in the next 
> month for those in Rev community that wish to use it.
> 
> Richard has a different take on this:
> 
> On 16 Oct 2005, at 00:40, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
> > But it may help others considering collaborative projects 
> to remember 
> > that getting work done is not dependent on first setting up some 
> > complicated system to keep track of it all.  It's too easy to let 
> > initial enthusiasm get dissipated in that sort of "analysis 
> > paralysis".
> 
> Which is very true. Still what would we do without the fools 
> that ignore good advice :) 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From david at openpartnership.net  Sun Oct 16 10:26:15 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (david bovill)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:26:15 +0200
Subject: OT: Wikis
In-Reply-To: <55869C57-BE72-4790-B394-3B9339CFF42D@hindu.org>
References: <20051016034722.71B61825110@mail.runrev.com>
	<55869C57-BE72-4790-B394-3B9339CFF42D@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <C1865A7C-1C88-4A2E-97C5-3E20433E4F2D@openpartnership.net>

I have been using TikiWiki for nearly two years now - but lack the  
functionality of web services that I had with Zope which means it is  
harder to integrate the wiki into the Rev environment without some  
hacking. MoinMoin is good too. The only wiki's that I know of other  
than these which support Rest methods that can be accessed for Rev's  
post / get http methods are Java based:

     - http://www.cocoondev.org/daisy/features.html
     - http://del.icio.us/fortyfoxes/Wiki


On 16 Oct 2005, at 06:34, Sivakatirswami wrote:

> <start my favorite tools besides rev>
>
> We see frequent mention of wikis here... if you haven't tried it or  
> just getting started with wiki's PMWiki is absolutely fabulous in  
> terms of flexibility, easy of admin and online support. 100% PHP  
> but you don't have to know a drop of PHP to get it up and running.

> On Oct 15, 2005, at 6:17 PM, MisterX wrote:
>
>
>>  so im redoing my web site
>> in a more flexible environmnt - wiki - which hopefully will be
>> more inviting and clearer to the reader.

And let me know if you get the authentication / session management  
working within rev for tikiwiki - had a few brief goes over the last  
year and failed.


From david at openpartnership.net  Sun Oct 16 10:46:34 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (david bovill)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:46:34 +0200
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vsTAOO]
In-Reply-To: <20051016133210.2C012824FE4@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051016133210.2C012824FE4@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BDE484AB-1210-47BB-82CE-213664189DD7@openpartnership.net>

On 16 Oct 2005, at 16:02, MisterX wrote:

> that's very interesting!
>
> Will it be in a library format ? ;)
>
> startCVS
> commitCVS
> killCVS
>
> loadCVS
> replacethiswithCVSthat...

Taking a look... these are the bits that I implemented:

     Add file to CVS
     Check CVS log
     Check CVS status
     Check CVS status of file index
     Check out module from CVS
     Commit file index to CVS
     Commit file to cvs
     Create new OPN stack CVS folder
     Get Diff between working file and CVS
     Import Folder into CVS Repository
     Release checked out module
     Save Old Scripts to CVS
     Save Stack in CVS
     SourceForge opn-repository checkout

But they are not exactly stored as a conventional library - rather as  
self contained objects that are referenced with "send". The idea is  
that they are loaded when you need them and can be fetched over the  
internet, and then added as hidden object to standalones without   
breaking the limits on front / back / used libraries for standalones  
- but then that's part of my non-successful open source workflow :(

So where's this Script Editor thingy?

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Oct 16 11:10:29 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 08:10:29 -0700
Subject: Hello science in TAOO [long]
In-Reply-To: <20051016071351.A2BE78250DF@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051016071351.A2BE78250DF@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <43526D65.8030908@fourthworld.com>

Richard wrote:

 > If the user encounters annoyances before the utility of the
 > work is self-evident, one can harldy blame them for simply
 > moving on with their busy day.


MisterX replied:

 > But Richard,
 >
 > You miss the point that one can only do so much testing and
 > still depend lots on the user's feedback


MisterX later wrote:

 > Monsieurx.com is being revamped silently into Wiki and
 > without the wacky MisterX's adventure content.
 >
 > You can come and preview the website at http://monsieurx.com/wiki


Which earned these replies:

 >  Link seems broken ;-/

 > Yep, I can see it, but can't navigate anywhere.
 > I get "Login Error" everywhere.


The point of my original post was that sufficient testing must be done 
by the developer to ensure that bugs are encountered AFTER the user is 
aleady hooked.

Who missed the point?

There is a ratio of bugs to understandable usefulness.  Raise that 
quotient for TAOO and its adoption rate will change.

If that level of effort doesn't seem worthwhile to you, you may have to 
be content shipping commercialy successfuly software at a rate that 
leave the rest of us in the dust.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sun Oct 16 11:17:59 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:17:59 -0400
Subject: spacebar messes up focus?
Message-ID: <09943F58-F73C-4A75-87CC-9223C4E151D4@conncoll.edu>

(I asked a version of this earlier.) While my stack is running but at  
some pause-point (while debugging, or while a modal dlg box is up),

1. in the Message Box, as soon as I type a blank space, the focus  
disappears (goes somewhere else??), so I can't type any more until I  
mouse-click in the msg-box input space again.

2. now I see the same thing happening with editable text fields in my  
modal dialog box itself -- typing a blank space loses the focus.

I don't see anything about this in Rev's Preferences, so I guess  
that's the wrong place to look. Any clues?

Charles Hartman



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sun Oct 16 11:31:34 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:31:34 -0400
Subject: debugging modal dlg boxes
Message-ID: <5D119653-4D63-4E9A-B200-F70F62C40963@conncoll.edu>

I know this is a dumb question -- but I'm having a hard time  
debugging a modal dialog box. What am I missing?

When the box is full, the "Done" button processes its data (and sends  
it off to a MySQL database). But debugging the mouseUp script for  
that button isn't working -- because when I try to stop at a  
breakpoint in it, though the script does stop, I can't click in it,  
or in anything else at all: menus, message box, the Done button  
itself . . . so there's nothing to do but Force Quit, which doesn't  
exactly give me the information I need for debugging.

Is there some method for debugging modals that I don't know about?  
Can't find anything in the docs . . .

Charles Hartman


From see3d at writeme.com  Sun Oct 16 12:00:58 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 12:00:58 -0400
Subject: ANN: New Website for TAOO
In-Reply-To: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <144FAC97-D2B8-47C7-8D4E-579D96FD0605@writeme.com>

Xavier,

All I get is Login error, I tried for 15 min to get in, but had to  
give up...

Dennis

On Oct 16, 2005, at 4:02 AM, MisterX wrote:

>
> Monsieurx.com is being revamped silently into Wiki and without the  
> wacky
> MisterX's adventure content.
>
> You can come and preview the website at http://monsieurx.com/wiki
>
> I think you will like it, it's more to the point and I'll be  
> working hard to
> make it easier to understand...
>
> your comments are welcome, join in and send your questions to the  
> faq and
> don?t be shy to comment or suggest articles and examples you would  
> like to
> see...
>
> regards
> Xavier
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From see3d at writeme.com  Sun Oct 16 12:13:06 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 12:13:06 -0400
Subject: ANN: New Website for TAOO
In-Reply-To: <144FAC97-D2B8-47C7-8D4E-579D96FD0605@writeme.com>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>
	<144FAC97-D2B8-47C7-8D4E-579D96FD0605@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <E16B940D-E389-4ABB-9C0C-487EE15633D8@writeme.com>

Xavier,

I just tried again, and this time I can register and log in.  Good.

Dennis

On Oct 16, 2005, at 12:00 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:

> Xavier,
>
> All I get is Login error, I tried for 15 min to get in, but had to  
> give up...
>
> Dennis
>
> On Oct 16, 2005, at 4:02 AM, MisterX wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Monsieurx.com is being revamped silently into Wiki and without the  
>> wacky
>> MisterX's adventure content.
>>
>> You can come and preview the website at http://monsieurx.com/wiki
>>
>> I think you will like it, it's more to the point and I'll be  
>> working hard to
>> make it easier to understand...
>>
>> your comments are welcome, join in and send your questions to the  
>> faq and
>> don?t be shy to comment or suggest articles and examples you would  
>> like to
>> see...
>>
>> regards
>> Xavier
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Oct 16 12:26:05 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:26:05 +0200
Subject: ANN: New Website for TAOO
In-Reply-To: <E16B940D-E389-4ABB-9C0C-487EE15633D8@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <20051016155542.A1F15825049@mail.runrev.com>

I didn't do much but I tried twice to log in and it worked! 

Wiki baffles me sometimes...

I thought this would be easier than PHPNuke or Typo3.com...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Dennis Brown
> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 6:13 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: ANN: New Website for TAOO
> 
> Xavier,
> 
> I just tried again, and this time I can register and log in.  Good.
> 
> Dennis
> 
> On Oct 16, 2005, at 12:00 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:
> 
> > Xavier,
> >
> > All I get is Login error, I tried for 15 min to get in, but had to 
> > give up...
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > On Oct 16, 2005, at 4:02 AM, MisterX wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Monsieurx.com is being revamped silently into Wiki and without the 
> >> wacky MisterX's adventure content.
> >>
> >> You can come and preview the website at http://monsieurx.com/wiki
> >>
> >> I think you will like it, it's more to the point and I'll 
> be working 
> >> hard to make it easier to understand...
> >>
> >> your comments are welcome, join in and send your questions 
> to the faq 
> >> and don?t be shy to comment or suggest articles and examples you 
> >> would like to see...
> >>
> >> regards
> >> Xavier
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-revolution mailing list
> >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Sun Oct 16 12:39:08 2005
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 12:39:08 -0400
Subject: Math wizardry
Message-ID: <OFB2E1E3EA.FE40606C-ON8525709C.005AA59B@sealedair.com>

>> The function always returns a number that is less than 3. Can someone
>> explain why this is or offer another way to determine the angle of a
>> line? Math is NOT my strength.
>>
>>
> There are two "scales" used to measure angle
> - degrees (from 0 to 360 for the complete circle)
> - radians (from 0 to pi for the complete circle)
> 
> So simply multiply your result by  (360 / pi)
> 
> 
> --
> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net
> 

Alex,

Thank you for the providing the simplicity that eludes me. I knew I should 
have paid more attention in math class.  :-)

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Oct 16 13:00:30 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:00:30 +0200
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO [|Not so Short]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510151737420.7729-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <20051016163002.7749D824913@mail.runrev.com>

isn't that vaporware ? ;) 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Judy Perry
> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:39 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO [|Not so Short]
> 
> Or, "sell it for what people think it will do for them" ala 
> "use this shampoo and you can have your own 'When Harry Met 
> Sally' moment".
> 
> ;-)
> 
> Judy
> 
> On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 SimPLsol at aol.com wrote:
> 
> > Or as good marketing people also say:
> > "Sell the sizzle not the steak."
> > What it "is" counts for little, what it "does" is everything. Or as 
> > good marketing people put it:
> > "Never list a feature without describing its benefits."
> > What is different about TAOO? And why should I care?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From see3d at writeme.com  Sun Oct 16 12:58:04 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 12:58:04 -0400
Subject: ANN: New Website for TAOO
In-Reply-To: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <9D636A6B-816C-474D-8A05-6DFC00281E8B@writeme.com>

Xavier,

After reading your new introduction on the wiki page.  Something  
clicks.  If I understand what TAOO is supposed to be, I can relate it  
to Forth.  Forth is a low level but extensible language and IDE from  
about 30 years ago.  In Forth you write a definition for a named  
routine that is then available for immediate and future project use.   
In essence you are extending the base language with higher level  
operators that become more specific to solving a particular problem.   
A typical Forth program would consist of defining some new operators  
needed for solving a problem, then finally the main routine  
"doWhatIWant" that consists of a string of high level operators that  
solve the problem at a high level of abstraction.  Because Forth is a  
stack language, each operator is passing data to the next operator in  
line without any explicit references.  Forth was a stupid simple  
language.  But it allowed you to design the solution to your problem  
at a high level with operators that did not exist, then design the  
operators that make those operators work, etc.  until you were at the  
lowest level of operator.  But the beauty was that every operator was  
an extension to the language for other projects without any effort  
other than you had better document your language extensions well, if  
you expected to use them again.

One of the weaknesses of XTalk/Transcript in my opinion was that you  
could not directly and efficiently extend the language in this same way.

So It seems to me that TAOO is an environment that provides a  
framework for an extensible language --but not as effeciently as if  
it were built into the language at the primitive level.

So the strength of TAOO would be this extensible language framework  
plus all the "extension definitions" that you have already written.

Do I have a correct picture yet in simple terms???

Dennis


On Oct 16, 2005, at 4:02 AM, MisterX wrote:

>
> Monsieurx.com is being revamped silently into Wiki and without the  
> wacky
> MisterX's adventure content.
>
> You can come and preview the website at http://monsieurx.com/wiki
>
> I think you will like it, it's more to the point and I'll be  
> working hard to
> make it easier to understand...
>
> your comments are welcome, join in and send your questions to the  
> faq and
> don?t be shy to comment or suggest articles and examples you would  
> like to
> see...
>
> regards
> Xavier
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From rev at armbase.com  Sun Oct 16 13:10:41 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:10:41 +0100
Subject: call the little box that lets you choose a colour
Message-ID: <20051016181041.a6ila8hp4ckwo80w@webmail.armbase.com>

Hi All.

In the rev docs there is a colournames stack with coloured boxes. In mose
windows apps there is a window with colours to chose.

Is there a stack available that my end-users can use to choose the colour of the
stack background etc etc afte I distribute it?

Or do I make my own. The app is shareware.

All the best
Bob



From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Sun Oct 16 13:16:12 2005
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:16:12 -0400
Subject: call the little box that lets you choose a colour
Message-ID: <OF6DF23E7A.3A767615-ON8525709C.005EAD74@sealedair.com>

> Is there a stack available that my end-users can use
> to choose the colour of the stack background etc etc
> afte I distribute it?
> 
> Or do I make my own. The app is shareware.
> 
> All the best
> Bob
> 

Bob,

"answer color" will show the color selection stack.

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>



From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Sun Oct 16 13:18:37 2005
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:18:37 -0400
Subject: call the little box that lets you choose a colour
Message-ID: <OFACF9B3DC.C2381FAF-ON8525709C.005EF199@sealedair.com>

> "answer color" will show the color selection stack.

Actually, it calls the default color selector window for the OS, not a 
stack.

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Oct 16 13:31:05 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:31:05 +0200
Subject: Hello science in TAOO [long]
In-Reply-To: <43526D65.8030908@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20051016170037.2D957825092@mail.runrev.com>


> Richard wrote:
> 
>  > If the user encounters annoyances before the utility of the
>  > work is self-evident, one can harldy blame them for simply
>  > moving on with their busy day.
> 
> 
> MisterX replied:
> 
>  > But Richard,
>  >
>  > You miss the point that one can only do so much testing and
>  > still depend lots on the user's feedback
> 
> 
> MisterX later wrote:
> 
>  > Monsieurx.com is being revamped silently into Wiki and
>  > without the wacky MisterX's adventure content.
>  >
>  > You can come and preview the website at http://monsieurx.com/wiki
> 
> 
> Which earned these replies:
> 
>  >  Link seems broken ;-/
> 
>  > Yep, I can see it, but can't navigate anywhere.
>  > I get "Login Error" everywhere.

I run as I learn fumble as I go ;) 

One of my personal problems is that I completely miss the obvious despite
carefully checking and looking... And if im able to fly it's because of
that! hard to explain but I sure am not putting the chariot in front of the
oxen - im not that stupid. Im just a little space-headed sometimes into so
many ideas... 

> The point of my original post was that sufficient testing 
> must be done 
> by the developer to ensure that bugs are encountered AFTER 
> the user is 
> aleady hooked.
> 
> Who missed the point?

Then lets wait months and months. I think we don?t need to wait for 20
percent of the gui to be finished to be able to enjoy the 80% that works! ;)

Im about to make a road map into the libraries. It's long overdue. 

> There is a ratio of bugs to understandable usefulness.  Raise that 
> quotient for TAOO and its adoption rate will change.

very nicely said! 
implacable logic too

> If that level of effort doesn't seem worthwhile to you, you 
> may have to 
> be content shipping commercialy successfuly software at a rate that 
> leave the rest of us in the dust.

now you got me saying eh?

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/tiki or http://monsieurx.com/wiki
registration is a bit reticent



From rev at armbase.com  Sun Oct 16 13:30:04 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:30:04 +0100
Subject: call the little box that lets you choose a colour
In-Reply-To: <OFACF9B3DC.C2381FAF-ON8525709C.005EF199@sealedair.com>
References: <OFACF9B3DC.C2381FAF-ON8525709C.005EF199@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <20051016183004.7f15nituhw0ccg4g@webmail.armbase.com>

Quoting Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com:

>> "answer color" will show the color selection stack.
>
> Actually, it calls the default color selector window for the OS, not a
> stack.

Thanks for the quick reply. i just noticed that via looking at someone elses
stack scripts....Should be simpler than a websearch and ripping appart 
someones
stack :-).

got a test stack working with this

on mouseUp
  answer color
--the colour chooser pops up
  put it into tcolour
  set the backgroundcolor of this card to tcolour
end mouseUp

Thanks again Roger.
cheers
bob
>
> Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>





From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Sun Oct 16 13:40:49 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 10:40:49 -0700
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs
 TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <43518545.2020308@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BF77DEB1.38EE2%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>


On 10/15/05 3:40 PM, "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

> You can solve little things like moving around files and integrating
> them into the master build as you go.
> 
> That stuff is easy.
> 
> The hard part is retaining and utilizing human energy.

I think this is exactly why some type of CVS would be useful.

If someone has a burst of creative energy and wants to apply it to an open
source project they can't wait around to get get organized and find out who
has the latest version of a stack or what ever.

But if the code was available in some sort of CVS then they can get to work
while the burst of creative energy is still fresh.

If the project is always as close to possible to "ready to work on" then it
will be easier to retain and utilize the creative energy necessary to finish
a project.

Cheers

Todd



Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From rev at armbase.com  Sun Oct 16 13:52:52 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:52:52 +0100
Subject: call the little box that lets you choose a colour
In-Reply-To: <20051016183004.7f15nituhw0ccg4g@webmail.armbase.com>
References: <OFACF9B3DC.C2381FAF-ON8525709C.005EF199@sealedair.com>
	<20051016183004.7f15nituhw0ccg4g@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <20051016185252.taojmxmn408w0o8w@webmail.armbase.com>

Quoting rev at armbase.com:

> Quoting Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com:
>
>>> "answer color" will show the color selection stack.
>>
>> Actually, it calls the default color selector window for the OS, not a
>> stack.
>
> Thanks for the quick reply. i just noticed that via looking at someone elses
> stack scripts....Should be simpler than a websearch and ripping 
> appart someones
> stack :-).
>
> got a test stack working with this
>
> on mouseUp
>  answer color
> --the colour chooser pops up
>  put it into tcolour
>  set the backgroundcolor of this card to tcolour
> end mouseUp

I can also change the backgroundcolor by setting it to the color of 
card 1 (when
it is created).
How do I set the backgroundcolor of all cards to the same color as card one. I
suppose I could have an opencard handler ut i don't want to script this in on
all cards.

There must be an easy way.


cheers
bob

> Thanks again Roger.
> cheers
> bob
>>
>> Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>





From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Oct 16 13:55:59 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 10:55:59 -0700
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs
	TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <BF77DEB1.38EE2%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
References: <BF77DEB1.38EE2%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <4352942F.7010104@fourthworld.com>

Todd Geist wrote:
> On 10/15/05 3:40 PM, "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>You can solve little things like moving around files and integrating
>>them into the master build as you go.
>>
>>That stuff is easy.
>>
>>The hard part is retaining and utilizing human energy.
> 
> 
> I think this is exactly why some type of CVS would be useful.
> 
> If someone has a burst of creative energy and wants to apply it to an open
> source project they can't wait around to get get organized and find out who
> has the latest version of a stack or what ever.
> 
> But if the code was available in some sort of CVS then they can get to work
> while the burst of creative energy is still fresh.
> 
> If the project is always as close to possible to "ready to work on" then it
> will be easier to retain and utilize the creative energy necessary to finish
> a project.

Magic Carpet's been around for a while, and many of us have written 
similar tools for various projects.

The MetaCard IDE continues to be developed.  How many other open source 
projects have had as many releases in that time frame?

This is not to suggest that such a tool is not useful.  On the contrary, 
that we keep building them suggests they are.

I just don't think tools or the lack of tools are holding up any serious 
open source efforts.   I think the problem lies elsewhere.

If we assume a priori that the problem is a lack of tools we may 
overlook the actual root cause....

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Oct 16 14:06:46 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:06:46 -0700
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs
	TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <F7FD743C-8B76-4724-B142-9AE15663EEB4@openpartnership.net>
References: <OF35B56E59.B560395E-ONC125709A.00264755-C125709A.00281EC5@deutsche-boerse
	.com> <p06230904bf7582b038ac@[192.168.1.101]>
	<4350635D.2010005@tweedly.net> <43518545.2020308@fourthworld.com>
	<F7FD743C-8B76-4724-B142-9AE15663EEB4@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <12110241756.20051016110646@ahsoftware.net>

david-

Sunday, October 16, 2005, 6:47:08 AM, you wrote:

> CVS does not handle binaries so well, so  to keep track with the open

CVS actually handles binaries *very* poorly, usually resulting in file
corruption, in my experience. CVS was explicitly written to deal with
text files, and the binary stuff was added as an afterthought.

> source guys we are moving over to SVN. Trac is a system that combines
> CVS with subversion source code management (SVN). Hope to get this up
> and running in the next month for those in Rev community that wish to
> use it.

Funny, I just started down the road of moving my rev version control
over to subversion, too. But I'd happily give that up if you can get
this running in the next month or so.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From david at openpartnership.net  Sun Oct 16 14:43:14 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (david bovill)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:43:14 +0200
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs
	TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <12110241756.20051016110646@ahsoftware.net>
References: <OF35B56E59.B560395E-ONC125709A.00264755-C125709A.00281EC5@deutsche-boerse
	.com> <p06230904bf7582b038ac@[192.168.1.101]>
	<4350635D.2010005@tweedly.net> <43518545.2020308@fourthworld.com>
	<F7FD743C-8B76-4724-B142-9AE15663EEB4@openpartnership.net>
	<12110241756.20051016110646@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <1CDDEA47-1954-46E0-BA3A-970C830008FC@openpartnership.net>

On 16 Oct 2005, at 20:06, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Funny, I just started down the road of moving my rev version control
> over to subversion, too. But I'd happily give that up if you can get
> this running in the next month or so.

So your offering to help :)

On 16 Oct 2005, at 20:06, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I just don't think tools or the lack of tools are holding up any  
> serious open source efforts.   I think the problem lies elsewhere.
>
> If we assume a priori that the problem is a lack of tools we may  
> overlook the actual root cause....

While I agree with you, treating the problem is not always the most  
effective strategy. The problem in this case is largely the advantage  
of Rev - it is a fabulous DIY tool. So not such a reason to  
cooperate, and the tool itself generates many effective  
individualistic strategies for rapid development. Marrying them is a  
sociological nightmare :)

So why not go with the flow - horses for courses? Is there a way of  
combining "Magic Carpet" with the interest to develop an SVN / CVS  
integration into the Rev environment?


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Oct 16 15:06:28 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 21:06:28 +0200
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vsTAOO]
In-Reply-To: <12110241756.20051016110646@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <20051016183625.D70A082509D@mail.runrev.com>

I guess we all have one cvs system ;)

I got a cvs in my script editor - recorded as a tag into the controls (easy
to remove for release).

A cvs stack database logs all changes (same format as usual turned into cvs
useful) 

next is the historical log changes

The undo journaling and change reporting (object's property level).

What's funny is that I only do save as to update a stack's backups, inscribe
the pattern into the backup and run...

But my systems are just little solutions - not used or tested - surely
inadapted for proper cvs... 

I'll see about making a cvs manager... Seems useful for collaboration. 

How do you feel about journaling operations - such as changing fields'
contents?
This can be divided into content and gui labels (across different languages
too)...

I don't mean to complicate the task but broaden the possible scope of things
we all can collaborate on. 15 years thinking about constant version updates
was a nightmare at one point... 

I've adopted Richard's way with how they update MC. I use the same
distribution method for my 3 TAOO environments (actually, now it's 6 or 7
considering a few servers I rarely use). 

just a thought... usually cascades into a mountain of work ;)
cheers
Xavier


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Mark Wieder
> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 8:07 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. 
> AJAX... Ajax vsTAOO]
> 
> david-
> 
> Sunday, October 16, 2005, 6:47:08 AM, you wrote:
> 
> > CVS does not handle binaries so well, so  to keep track 
> with the open
> 
> CVS actually handles binaries *very* poorly, usually 
> resulting in file corruption, in my experience. CVS was 
> explicitly written to deal with text files, and the binary 
> stuff was added as an afterthought.
> 
> > source guys we are moving over to SVN. Trac is a system 
> that combines 
> > CVS with subversion source code management (SVN). Hope to 
> get this up 
> > and running in the next month for those in Rev community 
> that wish to 
> > use it.
> 
> Funny, I just started down the road of moving my rev version 
> control over to subversion, too. But I'd happily give that up 
> if you can get this running in the next month or so.
> 
> --
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Oct 16 15:05:17 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 12:05:17 -0700
Subject: Hello science in TAOO [long]
In-Reply-To: <20051016170037.2D957825092@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051016170037.2D957825092@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4352A46D.3080009@fourthworld.com>

MisterX wrote:
>> There is a ratio of bugs to understandable usefulness. 
>> Raise that quotient for TAOO and its adoption rate
>> will change.
>
> very nicely said! 
> implacable logic too
> 
> 
>> If that level of effort doesn't seem worthwhile to you,
>> you may have to be content shipping commercialy successfuly
>> software at a rate that leave the rest of us in the dust. 
> 
> now you got me saying eh?

Making software is fun, but ultimately the software that pays the bills 
for most of us is also useful.

If I make a tool that benefits my ability to ship apps, as a famous 
person once said "it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg" if I'm 
the only one using it.

In some ways it may actually benefit me, as I won't have distracting 
obligations like technical support and documentation.  That's why most 
of the tools I write never get publicly distributed: I prefer to stay 
focused on shipping commercial apps, rather than putting in the level of 
effort needed to make my tools self-evidently useful to others.  My 
clients and creditors reinforce that preference. ;)

After 15 years with TAOO, I would imagine you've shipped a lot of 
commercially successful apps with it.

So if it proves too much effort to share that level of efficiency with 
others, it does you no harm to just keep doing what you're doing.  As 
the apps you're shipping become more plentiful and more popular, sooner 
or later people will come to you asking "How did you do that?"   At that 
point you have their attention, and you may not need to do as much 
evangelizing, as the output of your tools will speak for themselves.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Oct 16 15:40:59 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 12:40:59 -0700
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax
	vs	TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <1CDDEA47-1954-46E0-BA3A-970C830008FC@openpartnership.net>
References: <OF35B56E59.B560395E-ONC125709A.00264755-C125709A.00281EC5@deutsche-boerse	.com>
	<p06230904bf7582b038ac@[192.168.1.101]>	<4350635D.2010005@tweedly.net>
	<43518545.2020308@fourthworld.com>	<F7FD743C-8B76-4724-B142-9AE15663EEB4@openpartnership.net>	<12110241756.20051016110646@ahsoftware.net>
	<1CDDEA47-1954-46E0-BA3A-970C830008FC@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <4352ACCB.9070206@fourthworld.com>

david bovill wrote:
> So why not go with the flow - horses for courses? Is there a way of  
> combining "Magic Carpet" with the interest to develop an SVN / CVS  
> integration into the Rev environment?

One man's flow is another man's impedence. ;)

If others like CVS then there's nothing stopping them from making a tool 
that integrates with it.

For myself, I think Magic Carpet got it right for the sorts of workflows 
I find myself involved in:  it's stack-based rather than script- or 
object-based, and in the projects I work in we usually assign owners by 
stack and nothing more atomic.

Better still, Magic Carpet runs on any standard FTP server, with no 
specialized software needed on the server at all.

But that's just me.  If CVS appeals to others I don't understand what 
they're waiting for.  They could open a Yahoo (or other) list and get 
started today.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Oct 16 15:54:57 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 12:54:57 -0700
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO [|Not so Short]
In-Reply-To: <20051016163002.7749D824913@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051016163002.7749D824913@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4352B011.8040607@fourthworld.com>

MisterX wrote:

 >>Judy wrote:
 >>
 >>On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 SimPLsol at aol.com wrote:
 >>
 >>>Or as good marketing people also say:
 >>>"Sell the sizzle not the steak."
 >>>What it "is" counts for little, what it "does" is everything. Or as
 >>>good marketing people put it:
 >>>"Never list a feature without describing its benefits."
 >>>What is different about TAOO? And why should I care?
 >>
 >> Or, "sell it for what people think it will do for them" ala
 >> "use this shampoo and you can have your own 'When Harry Met
 >> Sally' moment".
 >
 > isn't that vaporware ? ;)

It's only vaporware if it doesn't exist.

The second thing they teach in the sales and marketing course at 
Pepperdine University is: "turn features into benefits".

In retail clothing, for example, it's not enough to say that a shirt is 
made of cotton.  What does that do for the customer?  "It breathes well".

As an American bombarded daily by corporatist slogans, I understand 
Judy's jaded reaction to crafting a sales message.  But an effective 
message needn't be the sort of hyperbole she referenced. Describing 
goods in terms of specific customer benefits can be not only honest, but 
ultimately of great value for the customer in helping them understand 
what's available so they can make a selection.

As a marketer I tend to prefer underselling, telling people in the 
simplest terms without exclamation points what a product will do for 
them (I leave the exclamation points for customer testimonials).

As a customer, I prefer descriptions that include specific measurable 
results.  For example, if a library cut time-to-market for a series of 
commercial apps by an average of 20%, I'm interested.

Effective evangelism isn't vaporware.  When done honestly it's just 
another extension of usability, helping people cut through the noise to 
get down to the results that matter to them.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Oct 16 16:01:55 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:01:55 -0700
Subject: call the little box that lets you choose a colour
In-Reply-To: <20051016185252.taojmxmn408w0o8w@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <BF77FFC3.22E57%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, rev at armbase.com  wrote:

> I can also change the backgroundcolor by setting it to the color of
> card 1 (when
> it is created).
> How do I set the backgroundcolor of all cards to the same color as card one. I
> suppose I could have an opencard handler ut i don't want to script this in on
> all cards.
> 
> There must be an easy way.

Set the backgroundColor of the stack -- all cards will inherit the same
color.

The same goes for font settings (textFont, textSize, etc).

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Oct 16 16:27:59 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:27:59 -0700
Subject: call the little box that lets you choose a colour
In-Reply-To: <BF77FFC3.22E57%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <BF7805DF.22E61%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, I replied:

>> I can also change the backgroundcolor by setting it to the color of
>> card 1 (when
>> it is created).
>> How do I set the backgroundcolor of all cards to the same color as card one.
>> I
>> suppose I could have an opencard handler ut i don't want to script this in on
>> all cards.
>> 
>> There must be an easy way.
> 
> Set the backgroundColor of the stack -- all cards will inherit the same color.

I should mention that objects on all the cards will also inherit the same
backgroundColor, so depending on how your stack is laid out, you may wish to
set the backgroundColor of cards individually (or by script), rather than
changing the stack's backgroundColor.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From europe at ehug.info  Sun Oct 16 17:33:09 2005
From: europe at ehug.info (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:33:09 +0200
Subject: Advice on deploying 'splash screen' apps
In-Reply-To: <434FF30B.9000703@cogapp.com>
References: <434FF30B.9000703@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <4352C715.4000305@ehug.info>

Ben,

If the application is updating application components, these 
components should reside in the application folder. This may be 
in the application package, on MacOS X. It would be best if the 
update would take place after permission of the user and 
optionally after entering the master password of the system.

If the components that are updated are user specific, you may 
put them into the user library, application support, or 
documents folder. I would use the documents folder only if the 
user is assumed to have access to the updated files.

Often, I put components that need to be accessible to the user 
but belong to the application itself into the application 
folder. Only if I'm sure that the user doesn't need to access 
the files, I put them into the application package.

I don't use folder names of the form com.company.app because it 
is not commonly accepted on all platforms and I think Mac users 
don't have a problem with traditional names.

On Windows, there is the Documents and Settings folder where you 
can store settings for All Users or for a specific user. These 
folders contain the Application Data folder, which might be a 
good place to store files that are not directly a part of your 
application. Again, if the files are components of the 
application itself, I would put them into the folder of your 
application. You might also put files into the System or folder 
of Windows. If the user needs access to the files, I'd put them 
into the Documents folder.

This may be different from official rules, if there are any. If 
someone has an opinion different from what I write here, it 
would be interesting to know the arguments for his or her approach.

Best,

Mark

Ben Rubinstein wrote:
> I've done a few little splash screen apps with very limited deployment 
> (eg 1-3 users); and some completely self-contained apps with wider 
> deployment.
> 
> Now I'd like to make one of my more widely deployed apps into a 
> splash-screen based app, so that it can update itself over the net.
> 
> Where I've done this on the very custom apps, I've been happy to have 
> the standalone live in a folder with a 'service' folder, in which it 
> keeps the elements updated over the net, user prefs stack, etc.  
> However, the app I want to revise is currently used (on both Mac and 
> Windows) as just a single file (actually in the case of the Mac, a 
> package, but to the users it's a single file), storing preferences in an 
> XML file in the nominated preferences area, and I'd like ideally to keep 
> it that way.
> 
> So my question then is where should I keep the updatable elements of the 
> application?
> 
> On the Mac, the two options I would guess are:
>  - inside the standalone app's package;
>  - in a folder called something like 'com.cogapp.myapp' in either 
> "/Library/Application Support" or "~/Library/Application Support".
> 
> Could anyone comment on the pros and cons of these two approaches?
> 
> On Windows... I'm a stranger around those parts.  Obviously the package 
> situation doesn't exist.  Is there an equivalent location to the 
> "Application Support" trees?  Or is it more normal to have your app in a 
> folder with its support files?
> 
> I'd be very grateful for comments, experience, tips, etc.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Ben

-- 

eHUG coordinator
mailto:europe at ehug.info
http://www.ehug.info
http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch
http://www.economy-x-talk.com



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sun Oct 16 17:36:19 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 14:36:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO [|Not so Short]
In-Reply-To: <4352B011.8040607@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510161434500.22974-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

And, of course, it _was_ a joke _ ;-) _

Except for the fact that it was based on a real shampoo commercial. @;-)

Judy

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>  >>Judy wrote:
>  >> Or, "sell it for what people think it will do for them" ala
>  >> "use this shampoo and you can have your own 'When Harry Met
>  >> Sally' moment".
> As an American bombarded daily by corporatist slogans, I understand
> Judy's jaded reaction to crafting a sales message.





From revnewbie at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 17:39:16 2005
From: revnewbie at gmail.com (K J)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:39:16 -0400
Subject: Need help with Revolution!
Message-ID: <9d8792720510161439n318c1c10md06eadfaba169906@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, I am new to revolution 2.6.1. I was wondering if there are any books
or online tutorials for beginners.
I know that there is are the videos tutorials and the sample works. But is
there anything out there that explains
the programming language in detail.

Thanks

Kevin


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Oct 16 19:01:12 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:01:12 -0700
Subject: FORTH
In-Reply-To: <9D636A6B-816C-474D-8A05-6DFC00281E8B@writeme.com>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>
	<9D636A6B-816C-474D-8A05-6DFC00281E8B@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <12727908039.20051016160112@ahsoftware.net>

Dennis-

Sunday, October 16, 2005, 9:58:04 AM, you wrote:

> to Forth.  Forth is a low level but extensible language and IDE from

Forth? (Running over to x's web site to check it out...) Forth is as
close to the metal as you can get without writing in ones and zeros.

> One of the weaknesses of XTalk/Transcript in my opinion was that you
> could not directly and efficiently extend the language in this same way.

XTalk would be more on the path to Forthness if we could overload
keywords and add new ones. Of course, that would probably also require
namespaces and an include mechanism. Imagine patching "trunc" so that
it does the right thing by:

function trunc pValue
  return trunc(pValue & "")
end trunc

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From revolution at derbrill.de  Sun Oct 16 19:06:28 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 01:06:28 +0200
Subject: [Ann] Mini Bitmap editor
In-Reply-To: <20051016170005.042BE82521F@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <7B79D15F-3E99-11DA-9815-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Hi all,

inspired by Mark and with the help of Wouter I have put together a 
little stack. You find it in Revonline.

User: Malte
Stack: mini bitmap editor
Category: programming

It allows to set colored squares in a 32 by 32 grid and calculate a 32 
by 32 Pixel image from it. That was fun. :-)

I hope you like it.

All the best,

Malte


---
ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes
http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine
http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum 



From revolution at derbrill.de  Sun Oct 16 19:13:09 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 01:13:09 +0200
Subject: Need help with Revolution!
In-Reply-To: <20051016170005.042BE82521F@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <6A789006-3E9A-11DA-9815-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Hi Kevin,

If you progress on the learning curve you will find that the online 
docs are very useful. Esp. the dictionary. But I admit you need to have 
a vague idea of what you are searching for. In addition there is Dan 
Shafers book and his mini eBook series you can purchase.

You might also be interested in the little free eBook I released 
recently. You find it here:

http://www.derbrill.de/tutorials_e.html

Hope that helps,

Malte

> Hello, I am new to revolution 2.6.1. I was wondering if there are any 
> books
> or online tutorials for beginners.
> I know that there is are the videos tutorials and the sample works. 
> But is
> there anything out there that explains
> the programming language in detail.
---
ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes
http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine
http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum 



From revnewbie at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 19:39:50 2005
From: revnewbie at gmail.com (K J)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:39:50 -0400
Subject: Need help with Revolution!
In-Reply-To: <6A789006-3E9A-11DA-9815-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
References: <20051016170005.042BE82521F@mail.runrev.com>
	<6A789006-3E9A-11DA-9815-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <9d8792720510161639q14a6c7f7wc784131bf9a8906a@mail.gmail.com>

Where can I find Dans book. Your Ebook is helping alot. I am looking more
for something that explains the language more the the program its self.

On 10/16/05, Malte Brill <revolution at derbrill.de> wrote:
>
> Hi Kevin,
>
> If you progress on the learning curve you will find that the online
> docs are very useful. Esp. the dictionary. But I admit you need to have
> a vague idea of what you are searching for. In addition there is Dan
> Shafers book and his mini eBook series you can purchase.
>
> You might also be interested in the little free eBook I released
> recently. You find it here:
>
> http://www.derbrill.de/tutorials_e.html
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Malte
>
> > Hello, I am new to revolution 2.6.1. I was wondering if there are any
> > books
> > or online tutorials for beginners.
> > I know that there is are the videos tutorials and the sample works.
> > But is
> > there anything out there that explains
> > the programming language in detail.
> ---
> ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes
> http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine
> http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Oct 16 19:51:54 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:51:54 -0700
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs
	TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <4352ACCB.9070206@fourthworld.com>
References: <OF35B56E59.B560395E-ONC125709A.00264755-C125709A.00281EC5@deutsche-boerse
	.com> <p06230904bf7582b038ac@[192.168.1.101]>
	<4350635D.2010005@tweedly.net> <43518545.2020308@fourthworld.com>
	<F7FD743C-8B76-4724-B142-9AE15663EEB4@openpartnership.net>
	<12110241756.20051016110646@ahsoftware.net>
	<1CDDEA47-1954-46E0-BA3A-970C830008FC@openpartnership.net>
	<4352ACCB.9070206@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <230950294.20051016165154@ahsoftware.net>

Richard-

Sunday, October 16, 2005, 12:40:59 PM, you wrote:

> One man's flow is another man's impedence. ;)

LOL

> For myself, I think Magic Carpet got it right for the sorts of workflows
> I find myself involved in:  it's stack-based rather than script- or 
> object-based, and in the projects I work in we usually assign owners by
> stack and nothing more atomic.

I think Magic Carpet is great. The serverless implementation makes it
very easy to set up and use.

What I'm interested in, though, is opening up a path to a more
granular approach to rev development. If you don't need to get more
atomic than one stack-one developer then you're home free. But if
you've got complex projects and need to have developers check out an
object from a stack, work on it, and check it back in, then nobody
else can work on that stack without the pain of merging objects.

In the stack-at-a-time approach only one person on the rev team would
be able to work on the revLibrary stack at a time. That's a workable
way to go about things, but it's restrictive on time and resource
management and places an extra burden on the project manager. I think
that for runrev to be accepted in "professional" environments it needs
to shed the "cowboy coder" mentality that the rest of the developing
world left behind a decade ago. Subversion integration in the IDE is a
big step in that direction.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Oct 16 19:55:35 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:55:35 -0700
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs
	TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <4352942F.7010104@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF77DEB1.38EE2%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
	<4352942F.7010104@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <9031170701.20051016165535@ahsoftware.net>

Richard-

Sunday, October 16, 2005, 10:55:59 AM, you wrote:

> Magic Carpet's been around for a while, and many of us have written

...and it's about time someone posted the url...

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/MagicCarpetCover/default.htm

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From pastranadigital at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 23:02:58 2005
From: pastranadigital at gmail.com (Benjamin Pastrana)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:02:58 -0700
Subject: PDF MANUALS?
Message-ID: <BF786272.B6%pastranadigital@gmail.com>

Is there any PDF manuals for Revolution?

I looked in the runrev website but coudn't find them

Ben
-- 





From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Oct 16 20:05:45 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:05:45 -0700
Subject: ANN: New Website for TAOO
In-Reply-To: <20051016155542.A1F15825049@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051016155542.A1F15825049@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <FFC6E686-CCF9-4224-AE4C-F70F8F2456F7@danshafer.com>

OK I registered, logged in, and edited the opening portion of "What  
Make TAOO Interesting?" Read it over and see if it is still accurate.  
I think you'll agree it reads better.

The second item on that page starts "TAOO's goal is provide  
information at your fingertips." I tried to add a comment to that but  
the COmment link doesn't appear to me to do anything and I didn't  
want to rewrite it without a discussion. But I don't think this is  
TAOO's goal. I think TAOO's goal is "to make it possible for you to  
create applications that provide users with information at their  
fingertips." Yes?

Dan

On Oct 16, 2005, at 9:26 AM, MisterX wrote:

> I didn't do much but I tried twice to log in and it worked!
>
> Wiki baffles me sometimes...
>
> I thought this would be easier than PHPNuke or Typo3.com...
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>> Dennis Brown
>> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 6:13 PM
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: Re: ANN: New Website for TAOO
>>
>> Xavier,
>>
>> I just tried again, and this time I can register and log in.  Good.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>> On Oct 16, 2005, at 12:00 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Xavier,
>>>
>>> All I get is Login error, I tried for 15 min to get in, but had to
>>> give up...
>>>
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>> On Oct 16, 2005, at 4:02 AM, MisterX wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Monsieurx.com is being revamped silently into Wiki and without the
>>>> wacky MisterX's adventure content.
>>>>
>>>> You can come and preview the website at http://monsieurx.com/wiki
>>>>
>>>> I think you will like it, it's more to the point and I'll
>>>>
>> be working
>>
>>>> hard to make it easier to understand...
>>>>
>>>> your comments are welcome, join in and send your questions
>>>>
>> to the faq
>>
>>>> and don?t be shy to comment or suggest articles and examples you
>>>> would like to see...
>>>>
>>>> regards
>>>> Xavier
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
>> your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Oct 16 20:07:24 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:07:24 -0700
Subject: ANN: New Website for TAOO
In-Reply-To: <9D636A6B-816C-474D-8A05-6DFC00281E8B@writeme.com>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>
	<9D636A6B-816C-474D-8A05-6DFC00281E8B@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <2FB4388C-DC1D-4755-8221-79346B5143AB@danshafer.com>

Dennis.....

Gawd, do I hope you're wrong about the parallel with FOrth! :-D

Forth and LISP are the only two programming languages I ever  
attempted to learn and just gave up on. If TAOO is like Forth, I'm  
going to go back to programming in object assembler. It'll be less  
painful.

(Just kidding. At least mostly.)

Dan

On Oct 16, 2005, at 9:58 AM, Dennis Brown wrote:

> Xavier,
>
> After reading your new introduction on the wiki page.  Something  
> clicks.  If I understand what TAOO is supposed to be, I can relate  
> it to Forth.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Oct 16 20:08:47 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:08:47 -0700
Subject: OT: Wikis
In-Reply-To: <C1865A7C-1C88-4A2E-97C5-3E20433E4F2D@openpartnership.net>
References: <20051016034722.71B61825110@mail.runrev.com>
	<55869C57-BE72-4790-B394-3B9339CFF42D@hindu.org>
	<C1865A7C-1C88-4A2E-97C5-3E20433E4F2D@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <50142A72-CB9A-4893-B683-0617ED8A598F@danshafer.com>

David....

Aha! Another (ex?) Zopista lurks.

WHy did you abandon ZOpe (assuming you did)? And have you looked at  
Zwiki, a Wiki done in Zope?

Dan
On Oct 16, 2005, at 7:26 AM, david bovill wrote:

> I have been using TikiWiki for nearly two years now - but lack the  
> functionality of web services that I had with Zope which means it  
> is harder to integrate the wiki into the Rev environment without  
> some hacking. MoinMoin is good too. The only wiki's that I know of  
> other than these which support Rest methods that can be accessed  
> for Rev's post / get http methods are Java based:
>
>     - http://www.cocoondev.org/daisy/features.html
>     - http://del.icio.us/fortyfoxes/Wiki
>
>
> On 16 Oct 2005, at 06:34, Sivakatirswami wrote:
>
>
>> <start my favorite tools besides rev>
>>
>> We see frequent mention of wikis here... if you haven't tried it  
>> or just getting started with wiki's PMWiki is absolutely fabulous  
>> in terms of flexibility, easy of admin and online support. 100%  
>> PHP but you don't have to know a drop of PHP to get it up and  
>> running.
>>
>
>
>> On Oct 15, 2005, at 6:17 PM, MisterX wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>  so im redoing my web site
>>> in a more flexible environmnt - wiki - which hopefully will be
>>> more inviting and clearer to the reader.
>>>
>
> And let me know if you get the authentication / session management  
> working within rev for tikiwiki - had a few brief goes over the  
> last year and failed.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Oct 16 20:15:19 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:15:19 -0700
Subject: Need help with Revolution!
In-Reply-To: <9d8792720510161639q14a6c7f7wc784131bf9a8906a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20051016170005.042BE82521F@mail.runrev.com>
	<6A789006-3E9A-11DA-9815-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
	<9d8792720510161639q14a6c7f7wc784131bf9a8906a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3553E5E6-B540-45FF-8A2E-78B096A385F0@danshafer.com>

Kevin.....

Thanks for your interest in my book.

You can order the eBook version of my book from the following URL:

http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech/tech1_speedthought.html

You'll get an immediate download of a SmartEBook, which is explained  
on that page and which means, among other things, that any time I  
update the book -- which I've done twice in the past few weeks --  
you'll automatically be given the option of downloading  the new  
version next time you open the book on your system.


On Oct 16, 2005, at 4:39 PM, K J wrote:

> Where can I find Dans book. Your Ebook is helping alot. I am  
> looking more
> for something that explains the language more the the program its  
> self.
>
> On 10/16/05, Malte Brill <revolution at derbrill.de> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Kevin,
>>
>> If you progress on the learning curve you will find that the online
>> docs are very useful. Esp. the dictionary. But I admit you need to  
>> have
>> a vague idea of what you are searching for. In addition there is Dan
>> Shafers book and his mini eBook series you can purchase.
>>
>> You might also be interested in the little free eBook I released
>> recently. You find it here:
>>
>> http://www.derbrill.de/tutorials_e.html
>>
>> Hope that helps,
>>
>> Malte
>>
>>
>>> Hello, I am new to revolution 2.6.1. I was wondering if there are  
>>> any
>>> books
>>> or online tutorials for beginners.
>>> I know that there is are the videos tutorials and the sample works.
>>> But is
>>> there anything out there that explains
>>> the programming language in detail.
>>>
>> ---
>> ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes
>> http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine
>> http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Oct 16 20:17:08 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:17:08 -0700
Subject: PDF MANUALS?
In-Reply-To: <BF786272.B6%pastranadigital@gmail.com>
References: <BF786272.B6%pastranadigital@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ECC2E7BC-6A07-4F86-9B96-85CCB0BCFE22@danshafer.com>

The manuals are not available in PDF. I think you can still order  
printed copies of them, however.

At one point, there was a Rev stack that converted existing docs  
online into a PDF but I don't know if that's been maintained or not.


On Oct 16, 2005, at 8:02 PM, Benjamin Pastrana wrote:

> Is there any PDF manuals for Revolution?
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From see3d at writeme.com  Sun Oct 16 21:06:40 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 21:06:40 -0400
Subject: ANN: New Website for TAOO
In-Reply-To: <2FB4388C-DC1D-4755-8221-79346B5143AB@danshafer.com>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>
	<9D636A6B-816C-474D-8A05-6DFC00281E8B@writeme.com>
	<2FB4388C-DC1D-4755-8221-79346B5143AB@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <42F5BE95-C26D-4A5F-B749-F4A6E6C9A185@writeme.com>

Dan,

I realize that Forth is arcane.  However, it is simple to grasp the  
concept behind it, and it is the only language I ever used (albeit  
for only a few days 25 years ago),  that is inherently extensible  
(and re-definable).  In fact if you don't extend the language, you  
would have a hard time accomplishing anything.  I pretty much  
understood most of the language concept the first day I was exposed  
to it.  But coming from the machine language and hardware side of  
things, it fit right into my mental landscape.

I was trying to find a very simple example that I could relate to in  
order to conceptualize the environment provided by TAOO.  If this  
concept is correct, then I would not have any trouble figuring out  
TAOO and might even be able to explain the concept to others in  
simple terms.

However, if you did not "get" Forth, you might not be able to tell me  
if I have got any kind of mental hook to grab onto it yet.  I  
understand Small Talk  is an extensible language and you are familiar  
with it.  Can you draw any parallels in that direction?

Dennis

On Oct 16, 2005, at 8:07 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Dennis.....
>
> Gawd, do I hope you're wrong about the parallel with FOrth! :-D
>
> Forth and LISP are the only two programming languages I ever  
> attempted to learn and just gave up on. If TAOO is like Forth, I'm  
> going to go back to programming in object assembler. It'll be less  
> painful.
>
> (Just kidding. At least mostly.)
>
> Dan
>
> On Oct 16, 2005, at 9:58 AM, Dennis Brown wrote:
>
>
>> Xavier,
>>
>> After reading your new introduction on the wiki page.  Something  
>> clicks.  If I understand what TAOO is supposed to be, I can relate  
>> it to Forth.
>>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
> http://www.shafermedia.com
> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From Custard210 at aol.com  Sun Oct 16 21:10:54 2005
From: Custard210 at aol.com (Custard210 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 21:10:54 EDT
Subject: Need help with Revolution!
Message-ID: <1c8.33700e9f.3084541e@aol.com>

can't help you, sorry. new to this myself.  downloaded it for the  first time 
today


From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Sun Oct 16 21:12:34 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:12:34 -0700
Subject: Revolution back to HyperCard
In-Reply-To: <43505714.1090205@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
	<p06200702bf75fc9179bd@[10.0.1.2]> <43505714.1090205@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <p06200705bf78a826b17c@[10.0.1.2]>

Sorry, Richard, I probably don't completely understand your question.

I'd guess you were once a HC user, but maybe not. SS stands for 
searchscript. It was a script that shipped with hyperCard, in the 
home stack. It was invoked by typing SS into the msg box. It searched 
for a string in every script in the top stack.

You asked about "each of these scripts." That's the part of your 
question I didn't understand.

FWIW, I was comparing the speed of Rev's Find stack, searching for a 
string in any script in the top stack versus hyperCard's SearchScript 
doing the same job in a similar stack, in classic mode. But you 
probably understood that part.

Beyond that, I once wrote a test script comparing the milliseconds at 
beginning and end of script, the "find" command in a repeat loop, to 
find every instance of a string in any field of a rather large stack. 
I compared the elapsed time to the time Rev's "Find" stack took to do 
the same job, in the same stack, searching for field text only. I 
reported the whole thing on the list 2 or 3 months ago.

As I recall, the "find" command was 59 times faster than the 
field-text-only find, using Rev's "Find" stack. It was easy to 
calculate because the script took less than two seconds, whereas the 
"Find" stack needed more than a minute to do the same job.

Maybe that's what you were asking about. Not sure.

Cheers,


Tim




>Timothy Miller wrote:
>>Regarding hyperCard's SS (searchScript) I just did a quick test. 
>>You're right about searching a stack's scripts. I got 150 hits in a 
>>few seconds with Rev's find stack. That is indeed faster than SS, 
>>though SS was always fast enough.
>>
>>OTOH, Rev's find stack took 90 seconds to find 43 hits in a 
>>field-text-only search. I previously reported the same search is 59 
>>times faster with a simple script using the "find" command. If I do 
>>a field text search using the "find" command in the msg box, 
>>hitting the return key repeatedly, I can find all 43 hits in less 
>>than ten seconds -- pretty much as fast as I can hit the return key.
>
>What does each of these scripts do?
>
>--
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Managing Editor, revJournal
>  _______________________________________________________
>  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From revnewbie at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 21:13:01 2005
From: revnewbie at gmail.com (K J)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 21:13:01 -0400
Subject: Need help with Revolution!
In-Reply-To: <3553E5E6-B540-45FF-8A2E-78B096A385F0@danshafer.com>
References: <20051016170005.042BE82521F@mail.runrev.com>
	<6A789006-3E9A-11DA-9815-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
	<9d8792720510161639q14a6c7f7wc784131bf9a8906a@mail.gmail.com>
	<3553E5E6-B540-45FF-8A2E-78B096A385F0@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <9d8792720510161813k754dfe78pf7c938c07da1d98a@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the link Dan I will probably be buying it some where around the
21st.

On 10/16/05, Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:
>
> Kevin.....
>
> Thanks for your interest in my book.
>
> You can order the eBook version of my book from the following URL:
>
> http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech/tech1_speedthought.html
>
> You'll get an immediate download of a SmartEBook, which is explained
> on that page and which means, among other things, that any time I
> update the book -- which I've done twice in the past few weeks --
> you'll automatically be given the option of downloading the new
> version next time you open the book on your system.
>
>
> On Oct 16, 2005, at 4:39 PM, K J wrote:
>
> > Where can I find Dans book. Your Ebook is helping alot. I am
> > looking more
> > for something that explains the language more the the program its
> > self.
> >
> > On 10/16/05, Malte Brill <revolution at derbrill.de> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Hi Kevin,
> >>
> >> If you progress on the learning curve you will find that the online
> >> docs are very useful. Esp. the dictionary. But I admit you need to
> >> have
> >> a vague idea of what you are searching for. In addition there is Dan
> >> Shafers book and his mini eBook series you can purchase.
> >>
> >> You might also be interested in the little free eBook I released
> >> recently. You find it here:
> >>
> >> http://www.derbrill.de/tutorials_e.html
> >>
> >> Hope that helps,
> >>
> >> Malte
> >>
> >>
> >>> Hello, I am new to revolution 2.6.1. I was wondering if there are
> >>> any
> >>> books
> >>> or online tutorials for beginners.
> >>> I know that there is are the videos tutorials and the sample works.
> >>> But is
> >>> there anything out there that explains
> >>> the programming language in detail.
> >>>
> >> ---
> >> ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes
> >> http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine
> >> http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-revolution mailing list
> >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
> http://www.shafermedia.com
> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>


From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Sun Oct 16 21:16:04 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:16:04 -0700
Subject: Revolution back to HyperCard
In-Reply-To: <97.6a2410ad.3082f180@aol.com>
References: <97.6a2410ad.3082f180@aol.com>
Message-ID: <p06200706bf78ab12610e@[10.0.1.2]>

>Thank you guys for posting the find script for message box. I've been trying
>to get that done for a year. Now for a related question. In hypercard you
>could build a standalone which included a message box. Can this be 
>done in Rev?
>
>Jack


Sorry, I don't know. Someone else will.

It's too bad you've been trying to do this for more than a year. This 
is one of the ways that Rev could be more friendly to the less 
knowledgeable users. That script, or something like it, should be 
native to Rev.

And thanks again to Sarah for telling me about the script, on this 
list, a few months ago.

Tim




From see3d at writeme.com  Sun Oct 16 21:27:04 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 21:27:04 -0400
Subject: FORTH
In-Reply-To: <12727908039.20051016160112@ahsoftware.net>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>
	<9D636A6B-816C-474D-8A05-6DFC00281E8B@writeme.com>
	<12727908039.20051016160112@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <A866E244-3D54-42BC-B1BB-3FDB5EF501D4@writeme.com>

Mark,

One of the great things about Forth was the overhead of just a few  
machine language instructions to execute a high level function call.   
Transcript seems to require a trip around the world to jump next  
door.  For GUI speed stuff, it would not be a problem, but for my  
array crunching stuff, I am stuck writing everything in one handler  
to keep the speed up.  The convenience of having an environment like  
that would be very tempting to use for whatever could stand the  
overhead --and that might be quit a lot of applications.

Dennis

On Oct 16, 2005, at 7:01 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Dennis-
>
> Sunday, October 16, 2005, 9:58:04 AM, you wrote:
>
>
>> to Forth.  Forth is a low level but extensible language and IDE from
>>
>
> Forth? (Running over to x's web site to check it out...) Forth is as
> close to the metal as you can get without writing in ones and zeros.
>
>
>> One of the weaknesses of XTalk/Transcript in my opinion was that you
>> could not directly and efficiently extend the language in this  
>> same way.
>>
>
> XTalk would be more on the path to Forthness if we could overload
> keywords and add new ones. Of course, that would probably also require
> namespaces and an include mechanism. Imagine patching "trunc" so that
> it does the right thing by:
>
> function trunc pValue
>   return trunc(pValue & "")
> end trunc
>
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Sun Oct 16 21:47:15 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:47:15 -0700
Subject: FORTH and Hypercard
In-Reply-To: <A866E244-3D54-42BC-B1BB-3FDB5EF501D4@writeme.com>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>
	<9D636A6B-816C-474D-8A05-6DFC00281E8B@writeme.com>
	<12727908039.20051016160112@ahsoftware.net>
	<A866E244-3D54-42BC-B1BB-3FDB5EF501D4@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <p06230900bf78b176ada2@[192.168.1.101]>

In 1980 I worked with Kenny Jones (now at Digital Domain) at a place 
called New World Pictures. We worked on a machine called the Elicon, 
a camera control robot that was programmed in FORTH, and made movie 
special effects for Roger Corman and others.

It was a beautiful piece of work - dc servo motors driven from a huge 
interface panel and a PDP-11.

I liked FORTH a lot. I had an implementation of FORTH for the Apple 
][ that screamed.  UI was a command line.

I also liked a feature of Hypercard that was like forth - you could 
redefine and intercept a lower level handler using the same name. I 
guess it was a design decision to not allow that in Transcript.... 
but why?

sqb


>Mark,
>
>One of the great things about Forth was the overhead of just a few 
>machine language instructions to execute a high level function 
>call.  
>Transcript seems to require a trip around the world to jump next 
>door.  For GUI speed stuff, it would not be a problem, but for my 
>array crunching stuff, I am stuck writing everything in one handler 
>to keep the speed up.  The convenience of having an environment like 
>that would be very tempting to use for whatever could stand the 
>overhead --and that might be quit a lot of applications.
>
>Dennis

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Oct 16 22:22:59 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:22:59 -0700
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs
	TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <4352942F.7010104@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF77DEB1.38EE2%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
	<4352942F.7010104@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <9139634625.20051016192259@ahsoftware.net>

Richard-

Sunday, October 16, 2005, 10:55:59 AM, you wrote:

> Magic Carpet's been around for a while, and many of us have written

...and it's about time someone posted the url...

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/MagicCarpetCover/default.htm

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Oct 16 22:20:53 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:20:53 -0700
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs
	TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <4352942F.7010104@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF77DEB1.38EE2%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
	<4352942F.7010104@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <3639507984.20051016192053@ahsoftware.net>

Richard-

Sunday, October 16, 2005, 10:55:59 AM, you wrote:

> Magic Carpet's been around for a while, and many of us have written

...and it's about time someone posted the url...

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/MagicCarpetCover/default.htm

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Sun Oct 16 22:12:52 2005
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 22:12:52 -0400
Subject: Math wizardry
Message-ID: <OF76C5ABFE.2A789E10-ON8525709D.000B0979@sealedair.com>

For anyone interested, the modifications I made to Jim's original function 
will now return a negative or positive angle that can be used to set the 
angle property of an image object. This is great for rotating an image by 
simply drawing a line object at the angle you desire.

function theGeometricalAngle p1,p2
  --Geometrical angle of line defined by the two points p1 and p2
  get the paramcount
  if it is 1 then
    put line 2 of p1 into p2
    put line 1 of p1 into p1
  end if
  put item 1 of p2 - item 1 of p1 into dx
  put item 2 of p2 - item 2 of p1 into dy
  put atan2(dy,dx) into tAngle
  --Add or subtract pi as needed.
  switch
  case  tAngle < 0
    put (tAngle + pi)*(360/pi) into tAngle
    break
  case  tAngle > pi
    put (tAngle - pi)*(360/pi) into tAngle
    break
  default
    put tAngle*(360/pi) into tAngle
  end switch
--Change to negative/positive angle format.
  if (360-tAngle)/2 <= 90 then
    return round((360-tAngle)/2)
  else
    return round(((360-tAngle)/2)-180)
  end if
end theGeometricalAngle

--
Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>



From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Oct 16 22:20:55 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 03:20:55 +0100
Subject: Math wizardry - revisited and corrected.
Message-ID: <43530A87.3090804@tweedly.net>


>>>/ The function always returns a number that is less than 3. Can someone
>/>>/ explain why this is or offer another way to determine the angle of a
>/>>/ line? Math is NOT my strength.
>/>>/
>/>>/
>/>/ There are two "scales" used to measure angle
>/>/ - degrees (from 0 to 360 for the complete circle)
>/>/ - radians (from 0 to pi for the complete circle)
>/>/ 
>/>/ So simply multiply your result by  (360 / pi)
>/>/ 
>/>/ 
>/>/ --
>/>/ Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net
>/>/ 
>/
>Alex,
>
>Thank you for the providing the simplicity that eludes me. I knew I should 
>have paid more attention in math class.  :-)
>
>  
>
So should I !!

What I should have said was:
 - degrees 0 to 360
 - radians 0 to 2 * pi

So multiply by (180 / pi)

Sorry.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net

-------------- next part --------------
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/2005

From tominjapan at excite.com  Sun Oct 16 22:21:27 2005
From: tominjapan at excite.com (Thomas McCarthy)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 22:21:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: revGoUrl & POST
Message-ID: <20051017022127.37E97BC6F@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com>


I've already got a (clumsy) work around, but I thought it was an interesting question, so I ask the group:

I've used revGoUrl to open user's browers to some particular cgi:
revGoURL "http://someplace.com/something.cgi?parameters=whatever"

This seems to be a "GET" command (the '?' indicates that, right?)
Would it be possiple to "POST" some cgi with revGoURL?

cheers,
tm

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Oct 16 22:41:53 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:41:53 -0700
Subject: FORTH and Hypercard
In-Reply-To: <p06230900bf78b176ada2@[192\.168\.1\.101]>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>
	<9D636A6B-816C-474D-8A05-6DFC00281E8B@writeme.com>
	<12727908039.20051016160112@ahsoftware.net>
	<A866E244-3D54-42BC-B1BB-3FDB5EF501D4@writeme.com>
	<p06230900bf78b176ada2@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <9941149379.20051016194153@ahsoftware.net>

Stephen-

Sunday, October 16, 2005, 6:47:15 PM, you wrote:

> I also liked a feature of Hypercard that was like forth - you could
> redefine and intercept a lower level handler using the same name. I 
> guess it was a design decision to not allow that in Transcript.... 
> but why?

Yes, that's the keyword overloading feature I'm wishing we had...

not that I would wish Forth syntax on Transcript, but its
extensibility is the stuff dreams are made of.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Oct 16 22:49:17 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:49:17 -0700
Subject: FORTH
In-Reply-To: <A866E244-3D54-42BC-B1BB-3FDB5EF501D4@writeme.com>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>
	<9D636A6B-816C-474D-8A05-6DFC00281E8B@writeme.com>
	<12727908039.20051016160112@ahsoftware.net>
	<A866E244-3D54-42BC-B1BB-3FDB5EF501D4@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <12141592837.20051016194917@ahsoftware.net>

Dennis-

Sunday, October 16, 2005, 6:27:04 PM, you wrote:

> One of the great things about Forth was the overhead of just a few
> machine language instructions to execute a high level function call.

Yep - it's hard to beat an indirect stack pop for speed.

> Transcript seems to require a trip around the world to jump next  
> door.  For GUI speed stuff, it would not be a problem, but for my  
> array crunching stuff, I am stuck writing everything in one handler
> to keep the speed up.  The convenience of having an environment like
> that would be very tempting to use for whatever could stand the  
> overhead --and that might be quit a lot of applications.

Well, the Forth kernel doesn't take up much space - there are a few
implementations in C available - it might be fun to throw one of the
embedded forths into an external library, but I expect you could count
the interested target group on one finger.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Oct 16 23:07:16 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 22:07:16 -0500
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax
	vs	TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <9139634625.20051016192259@ahsoftware.net>
References: <BF77DEB1.38EE2%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>	<4352942F.7010104@fourthworld.com>
	<9139634625.20051016192259@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <43531564.70306@chipp.com>

Mark and Richard,

Thanks for the kind words about MagicCarpet. I agree, it's not 
everything for everybody, but it is used by a lot of Rev'ers to help 
manage their code.

Also, little known about MagicCarpet is it's ability to automate 
updating of applications via the MGC SplashScreen app. It's currently 
running in about 40 applications by myself and other Revers, both Mac 
and PC (and even 1 Linux user!).

It's not 'supported' but the instructions and splash screen download are at:

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/MagicCarpetAAA/Instructions.htm

Also, interesting enough, the Filemaker community has picked up on 
MagicCarpet and are now starting to use it for their version control as 
well.

best,

Chipp

Mark Wieder wrote:
> Richard-
> 
> Sunday, October 16, 2005, 10:55:59 AM, you wrote:
> 
> 
>>Magic Carpet's been around for a while, and many of us have written
> 
> 
> ...and it's about time someone posted the url...
> 
> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/MagicCarpetCover/default.htm
> 


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Sun Oct 16 23:09:18 2005
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:09:18 -0400
Subject: Math wizardry - revisited and corrected.
Message-ID: <OFD3D77996.AC5738CD-ON8525709D.0010C745@sealedair.com>

> So multiply by (180 / pi)

Alex,

I was able to get the function to work with your earlier suggestion "multiply by (360/ pi)", but using 180 makes it whack out (that's a technical term) no matter 
what I try.  ;-)

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Oct 16 23:14:53 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:14:53 -0700
Subject: Revolution back to HyperCard
In-Reply-To: <p06200705bf78a826b17c@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>	<p06200702bf75fc9179bd@[10.0.1.2]>
	<43505714.1090205@fourthworld.com>
	<p06200705bf78a826b17c@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <4353172D.90609@fourthworld.com>

Timothy Miller wrote:
> Sorry, Richard, I probably don't completely understand your question.
> 
> I'd guess you were once a HC user, but maybe not. SS stands for 
> searchscript. It was a script that shipped with hyperCard, in the home 
> stack. It was invoked by typing SS into the msg box. It searched for a 
> string in every script in the top stack.
> 
> You asked about "each of these scripts." That's the part of your 
> question I didn't understand.
> 
> FWIW, I was comparing the speed of Rev's Find stack, searching for a 
> string in any script in the top stack versus hyperCard's SearchScript 
> doing the same job in a similar stack, in classic mode. But you probably 
> understood that part.
> 
> Beyond that, I once wrote a test script comparing the milliseconds at 
> beginning and end of script, the "find" command in a repeat loop, to 
> find every instance of a string in any field of a rather large stack. I 
> compared the elapsed time to the time Rev's "Find" stack took to do the 
> same job, in the same stack, searching for field text only. I reported 
> the whole thing on the list 2 or 3 months ago.
> 
> As I recall, the "find" command was 59 times faster than the 
> field-text-only find, using Rev's "Find" stack. It was easy to calculate 
> because the script took less than two seconds, whereas the "Find" stack 
> needed more than a minute to do the same job.
> 
> Maybe that's what you were asking about. Not sure.

It seems you understood my question well in spite of my vaguery.  :)

Rev is generally faster than HC with the exception of certain uses of 
"find" (thanks to Atkinson's patented 'hint bits'), so I'd be curious to 
read an analysis of why the two search solutions are so very different.

I haven't used SS before, and am not even sure if I still have HC 
installed on this machine.  I don't use the Rev IDE either, but at least 
I do have it around somewhere and could dig out the search window.

With SS, what does the result give you?  Does it produce a list of found 
objects, or take you to them sequentially?

I'm pretty confident Rev can deliver a search solution that performs 
roughly on par with HC overall, esp. if we're talking about just 
searching scripts rather than fields, as I believe "hint bits" only 
apply to field objects.

Maybe I can squeeze some time to sit down with those two scripts and 
figure out where the time is being spent....

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Oct 16 23:27:55 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:27:55 -0700
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax
	vs	TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <230950294.20051016165154@ahsoftware.net>
References: <OF35B56E59.B560395E-ONC125709A.00264755-C125709A.00281EC5@deutsche-boerse	.com>
	<p06230904bf7582b038ac@[192.168.1.101]>	<4350635D.2010005@tweedly.net>
	<43518545.2020308@fourthworld.com>	<F7FD743C-8B76-4724-B142-9AE15663EEB4@openpartnership.net>	<12110241756.20051016110646@ahsoftware.net>	<1CDDEA47-1954-46E0-BA3A-970C830008FC@openpartnership.net>	<4352ACCB.9070206@fourthworld.com>
	<230950294.20051016165154@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <43531A3B.2040404@fourthworld.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:
> What I'm interested in, though, is opening up a path to a more
> granular approach to rev development. If you don't need to get more
> atomic than one stack-one developer then you're home free. But if
> you've got complex projects and need to have developers check out an
> object from a stack, work on it, and check it back in, then nobody
> else can work on that stack without the pain of merging objects.

Can you tell us a bit more about projects you've worked on where 
multiple team members needed to work on different controls in the same 
window at the same time?

This is different from my own, perhaps limited, experience, and any 
toolmakers would do well to try to understand as many workflow models as 
practical.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Sun Oct 16 23:55:45 2005
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 22:55:45 -0500
Subject: ANN: Constellation Script & Property Editor 1.0.0 Released
In-Reply-To: <4353172D.90609@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>	<p06200702bf75fc9179bd@[10.0.1.2]>
	<43505714.1090205@fourthworld.com>
	<p06200705bf78a826b17c@[10.0.1.2]> <4353172D.90609@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <F6F86350-0045-4FA9-945D-54BEED9F3988@daniels-mara.com>

Colleagues and Friends...

- 31,299 lines of code
- 1,099 handlers
- 357 tested versions
- a script & property editor with tabbed browsing in one window
- 49 preferences

It is my pleasure to inform you that the 1.0.0 version of  
Constellation has just been released and is available for purchase at  
this URL:

     http://daniels-mara.com/products

For those who would like a preview of how Constellation works, there  
are QuickTime? movie tutorials available through a link on the D&M  
Constellation web page. Look for "QuickTime Tutorials for  
Constellation" at mid-page and click it. Or click below to go  
directly to "The Hitchhiker's Guide to Constellation":

     http://daniels-mara.com/products/constellation1.htm

Re-cap of Release Info

- This release version of Constellation will carry the full retail  
price of $50 US.

- This licensing fee entitles the purchaser to a year of upgrades.

- At the purchase date anniversary, renewals cost one-half the retail  
price.

- Pre-release purchasers' one year free subscription will begin  
tomorrow (October 17, 2005).

- The Gadget Suite (Constellation, Inspection Gadget, Object Gadget,  
Transcript Gadget, Time Gadget) still sells for $60 US as long as the  
non-Constellation gadgets are in pre-release.

- Gadget Bar is still free of charge.

Acknowledgments

I'd like to give special thanks to the early adopters who bought in  
the pre-release phase and EXTRA thanks to the testers--?ric Miclo,  
Dennis Brown, Alex Tweedly, Sarah Reichelt, Chipp Walters and Dan  
Shafer--who generously gave of their time and ingenuity.

Best,

Jerry Daniels
Daniels & mara
www.daniels-mara.com

From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Sun Oct 16 23:59:12 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:59:12 -0700
Subject: FORTH and Hypercard
In-Reply-To: <p06230900bf78b176ada2@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>
	<9D636A6B-816C-474D-8A05-6DFC00281E8B@writeme.com>
	<12727908039.20051016160112@ahsoftware.net>
	<A866E244-3D54-42BC-B1BB-3FDB5EF501D4@writeme.com>
	<p06230900bf78b176ada2@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <967BB723-9AE4-4331-B267-5AD191FBDC11@inspiredlogic.com>


On Oct 16, 2005, at 6:47 PM, Stephen Barncard wrote:

> I also liked a feature of Hypercard that was like forth - you could  
> redefine and intercept a lower level handler using the same name. I  
> guess it was a design decision to not allow that in Transcript....  
> but why?
>

I believe it's because of the overhead involved. Calling a user- 
defined routine takes extra time because of the need to track down  
which code should be executed -- the one in the object, the one in  
the group, the one in the card, the one in any of the stacks in use,  
the frontscripts, etc. Calling a native routine has no such overhead.  
If native routines could be overridden, they would all have the  
overhead of user routines, which would slow them down.

Bear in mind I've never touched the engine's source code, and this is  
just a vague memory from a conversation with Scott or Tuviah.

gc


From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Oct 17 00:16:52 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 02:16:52 -0200
Subject: FORTH
In-Reply-To: <12141592837.20051016194917@ahsoftware.net>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>
	<9D636A6B-816C-474D-8A05-6DFC00281E8B@writeme.com>
	<12727908039.20051016160112@ahsoftware.net>
	<A866E244-3D54-42BC-B1BB-3FDB5EF501D4@writeme.com>
	<12141592837.20051016194917@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <07AFC945-DBCE-44E7-A4B9-9A1733B5E556@mac.com>


On Oct 17, 2005, at 12:49 AM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Well, the Forth kernel doesn't take up much space - there are a few
> implementations in C available - it might be fun to throw one of the
> embedded forths into an external library, but I expect you could count
> the interested target group on one finger.
>

I'd raise my hands if it was LISP!!!! :D (but I like forth too...  
programmed the LEGO RCX using pbForth)

Cheers
andre

From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Oct 17 00:27:33 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 02:27:33 -0200
Subject: ANN: Constellation Script & Property Editor 1.0.0 Released
In-Reply-To: <F6F86350-0045-4FA9-945D-54BEED9F3988@daniels-mara.com>
References: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
	<p06200702bf75fc9179bd@[10.0.1.2]>
	<43505714.1090205@fourthworld.com>
	<p06200705bf78a826b17c@[10.0.1.2]> <4353172D.90609@fourthworld.com>
	<F6F86350-0045-4FA9-945D-54BEED9F3988@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <B48334C8-5B5F-4FDC-8CBF-678B95C6E644@mac.com>

Jerry,

If I could write 31,300 lines of Thanks, I'd do it!!!! I remember  
falling in love with Rev when I first understood mchttpd.mc and  
realized the power of xTalk... now I think is the second time, not  
only Constellation but the whole plugin suite is a must-have addition  
to everyone!!! The easy of use, everything is just there, properties,  
preview, code all in one nice window, I just can't leave the  
editor... it's always open, it's always there!

Jerry, many thanks for this wonderfull program, I am more productive  
than ever, my workflow now is like a gently river where everything  
flows togheter and not as it was before, my workflow before  
constellation seemed a waterfall with rocks and obstacles where  
although everything flowed in the same direction some bumps where  
expected (hated going from inspector to code editor and switching  
lots of palletes.)

To all the readers, if you guys are not using Jerry Daniels tools you  
don't know what you're missing (an is lots of fun!). Its not only  
usefull, it even looks pretty!

Cheers and thanks
andre

On Oct 17, 2005, at 1:55 AM, Jerry Daniels wrote:

> Colleagues and Friends...
>
> - 31,299 lines of code
> - 1,099 handlers
> - 357 tested versions
> - a script & property editor with tabbed browsing in one window
> - 49 preferences
>
> It is my pleasure to inform you that the 1.0.0 version of  
> Constellation has just been released and is available for purchase  
> at this URL:
>
>     http://daniels-mara.com/products
>
> For those who would like a preview of how Constellation works,  
> there are QuickTime? movie tutorials available through a link on  
> the D&M Constellation web page. Look for "QuickTime Tutorials for  
> Constellation" at mid-page and click it. Or click below to go  
> directly to "The Hitchhiker's Guide to Constellation":
>
>     http://daniels-mara.com/products/constellation1.htm
>
> Re-cap of Release Info
>
> - This release version of Constellation will carry the full retail  
> price of $50 US.
>
> - This licensing fee entitles the purchaser to a year of upgrades.
>
> - At the purchase date anniversary, renewals cost one-half the  
> retail price.
>
> - Pre-release purchasers' one year free subscription will begin  
> tomorrow (October 17, 2005).
>
> - The Gadget Suite (Constellation, Inspection Gadget, Object  
> Gadget, Transcript Gadget, Time Gadget) still sells for $60 US as  
> long as the non-Constellation gadgets are in pre-release.
>
> - Gadget Bar is still free of charge.
>
> Acknowledgments
>
> I'd like to give special thanks to the early adopters who bought in  
> the pre-release phase and EXTRA thanks to the testers--?ric Miclo,  
> Dennis Brown, Alex Tweedly, Sarah Reichelt, Chipp Walters and Dan  
> Shafer--who generously gave of their time and ingenuity.
>
> Best,
>
> Jerry Daniels
> Daniels & mara
> www.daniels-mara.com_______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Mon Oct 17 00:35:10 2005
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (ron barber)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:35:10 +0900
Subject: Unicode - Font name question
In-Reply-To: <434FE9F3.1020806@fourthworld.com>
References: <20051014082630.23C29825093@mail.runrev.com>	<402A2EA7-45D6-4B76-9878-7D37FE95D82C@mac.com>
	<C6349321-E37F-4BAA-B968-F4AF2974E4C5@mac.com>
	<434FE9F3.1020806@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <930ad5f821a1e9cbc561d6a7e119c7a5@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Hi,

Getting the fontnames returns the name of Japanse (and Korean etc) 
fonts in what appears to be SJIS format and therefore unreadable as is.

These can be converted to unicode with the uniencode function. However, 
there is also an "english" name, viz. one that uses just the roman 
alphabet also associated with the font and can be read without 
uniencoding the name. This is shown in the font dialog displayed in 
TextEdit for example or in the Font Book.

Q. - Is there a way to access that name?

Thanks
Ron



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct 17 00:38:59 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:38:59 -0500
Subject: FORTH and Hypercard
In-Reply-To: <p06230900bf78b176ada2@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>	<9D636A6B-816C-474D-8A05-6DFC00281E8B@writeme.com>	<12727908039.20051016160112@ahsoftware.net>	<A866E244-3D54-42BC-B1BB-3FDB5EF501D4@writeme.com>
	<p06230900bf78b176ada2@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <43532AE3.1020408@hyperactivesw.com>

Stephen Barncard wrote:

> I also liked a feature of Hypercard that was like forth - you could 
> redefine and intercept a lower level handler using the same name. I 
> guess it was a design decision to not allow that in Transcript.... but why?

Speed. Raney wouldn't put it in, and now that I'm used to it, I agree 
with his decision (though I argued with him about it at first.) In order 
to override a built-in token with a handler of the same name, all 
commands would have to pass through the message hierarchy. As it is now, 
they go directly to the engine which is one of the reasons that Rev is 
so fast.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct 17 00:41:40 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:41:40 -0500
Subject: spacebar messes up focus?
In-Reply-To: <09943F58-F73C-4A75-87CC-9223C4E151D4@conncoll.edu>
References: <09943F58-F73C-4A75-87CC-9223C4E151D4@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <43532B84.6080005@hyperactivesw.com>

Charles Hartman wrote:
> (I asked a version of this earlier.) While my stack is running but at  
> some pause-point (while debugging, or while a modal dlg box is up),
> 
> 1. in the Message Box, as soon as I type a blank space, the focus  
> disappears (goes somewhere else??), so I can't type any more until I  
> mouse-click in the msg-box input space again.
> 
> 2. now I see the same thing happening with editable text fields in my  
> modal dialog box itself -- typing a blank space loses the focus.
> 
> I don't see anything about this in Rev's Preferences, so I guess  that's 
> the wrong place to look. Any clues?

I think someone answered this last time but maybe you didn't see it. 
During debugging, the space bar steps through the code. So every time 
you hit a space while debugging, focus goes back to the script editor 
and you move forward one line.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct 17 00:47:41 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:47:41 -0500
Subject: debugging modal dlg boxes
In-Reply-To: <5D119653-4D63-4E9A-B200-F70F62C40963@conncoll.edu>
References: <5D119653-4D63-4E9A-B200-F70F62C40963@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <43532CED.1070504@hyperactivesw.com>

Charles Hartman wrote:
> I know this is a dumb question -- but I'm having a hard time  debugging 
> a modal dialog box. What am I missing?
> 
> When the box is full, the "Done" button processes its data (and sends  
> it off to a MySQL database). But debugging the mouseUp script for  that 
> button isn't working -- because when I try to stop at a  breakpoint in 
> it, though the script does stop, I can't click in it,  or in anything 
> else at all: menus, message box, the Done button  itself . . . so 
> there's nothing to do but Force Quit, which doesn't  exactly give me the 
> information I need for debugging.
> 
> Is there some method for debugging modals that I don't know about?  
> Can't find anything in the docs . . .

Unless you have put in some kind of escape route for debugging, you are 
stuck. Modals just don't allow anything else to happen until they are 
dismissed.

Fortunately, Rev has a built-in escape from these. Hold down 
Command-Control-Shift (on Mac, anyway) and click on the stack; you'll 
get the contextual menu that allows you to change the stack style to 
something other than modal. Then you won't have to force-quit.

While debugging, I usually call the stack in some other mode until I 
know it works; toplevel, or modeless, or anything besides modal. Once it 
is working correctly, then I change the code back to modal. Note that 
modal dialogs are universally hated and shouldn't be used unless 
absolutely necessary. ;)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Oct 17 00:58:02 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 06:58:02 +0200
Subject: FORTH
In-Reply-To: <12727908039.20051016160112@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <20051017042726.A10AF82523D@mail.runrev.com>


that's possible! but forth wasn't in mind though I did try long ago
a forth language on my first mac named Neon... If anyone remembers it!

cheers
Xavier 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Mark Wieder
> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 1:01 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: FORTH
> 
> Dennis-
> 
> Sunday, October 16, 2005, 9:58:04 AM, you wrote:
> 
> > to Forth.  Forth is a low level but extensible language and IDE from
> 
> Forth? (Running over to x's web site to check it out...) 
> Forth is as close to the metal as you can get without writing 
> in ones and zeros.
> 
> > One of the weaknesses of XTalk/Transcript in my opinion was 
> that you 
> > could not directly and efficiently extend the language in 
> this same way.
> 
> XTalk would be more on the path to Forthness if we could 
> overload keywords and add new ones. Of course, that would 
> probably also require namespaces and an include mechanism. 
> Imagine patching "trunc" so that it does the right thing by:
> 
> function trunc pValue
>   return trunc(pValue & "")
> end trunc
> 
> --
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Oct 17 01:11:00 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 07:11:00 +0200
Subject: Hello science in TAOO [long]
In-Reply-To: <4352A46D.3080009@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20051017044023.1CAFE825269@mail.runrev.com>

well part of the reason I brought this into the open is to get help with
making this work in body and soul ;)

If I do it alone, I can get a large part done (given time) but without
other's input, it wont be as useful for others... 

at least that's the spirit behind :)

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Richard Gaskin
> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 9:05 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Hello science in TAOO [long]
> 
> MisterX wrote:
> >> There is a ratio of bugs to understandable usefulness. 
> >> Raise that quotient for TAOO and its adoption rate will change.
> >
> > very nicely said! 
> > implacable logic too
> > 
> > 
> >> If that level of effort doesn't seem worthwhile to you, 
> you may have 
> >> to be content shipping commercialy successfuly software at a rate 
> >> that leave the rest of us in the dust.
> > 
> > now you got me saying eh?
> 
> Making software is fun, but ultimately the software that pays 
> the bills for most of us is also useful.
> 
> If I make a tool that benefits my ability to ship apps, as a 
> famous person once said "it neither picks my pocket nor 
> breaks my leg" if I'm the only one using it.
> 
> In some ways it may actually benefit me, as I won't have 
> distracting obligations like technical support and 
> documentation.  That's why most of the tools I write never 
> get publicly distributed: I prefer to stay focused on 
> shipping commercial apps, rather than putting in the level of 
> effort needed to make my tools self-evidently useful to 
> others.  My clients and creditors reinforce that preference. ;)
> 
> After 15 years with TAOO, I would imagine you've shipped a 
> lot of commercially successful apps with it.
> 
> So if it proves too much effort to share that level of 
> efficiency with others, it does you no harm to just keep 
> doing what you're doing.  As the apps you're shipping become 
> more plentiful and more popular, sooner 
> or later people will come to you asking "How did you do 
> that?"   At that 
> point you have their attention, and you may not need to do as 
> much evangelizing, as the output of your tools will speak for 
> themselves.
> 
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Managing Editor, revJournal
>   _______________________________________________________
>   Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Oct 17 01:12:03 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 07:12:03 +0200
Subject: ANN: New Website for TAOO
In-Reply-To: <9D636A6B-816C-474D-8A05-6DFC00281E8B@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <20051017044127.80A2982528C@mail.runrev.com>

you got it!

It's not forth programming with stacks though!

The "name" = object stuff was cleverly left out!

cheers
Xavier


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis Brown [mailto:see3d at writeme.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 6:58 PM
> To: x at monsieurx.com; How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: ANN: New Website for TAOO
> 
> Xavier,
> 
> After reading your new introduction on the wiki page.  
> Something clicks.  If I understand what TAOO is supposed to 
> be, I can relate it to Forth.  Forth is a low level but 
> extensible language and IDE from about 30 years ago.  In 
> Forth you write a definition for a named  
> routine that is then available for immediate and future 
> project use.   
> In essence you are extending the base language with higher level  
> operators that become more specific to solving a particular 
> problem.   
> A typical Forth program would consist of defining some new 
> operators needed for solving a problem, then finally the main 
> routine "doWhatIWant" that consists of a string of high level 
> operators that solve the problem at a high level of 
> abstraction.  Because Forth is a stack language, each 
> operator is passing data to the next operator in line without 
> any explicit references.  Forth was a stupid simple language. 
>  But it allowed you to design the solution to your problem at 
> a high level with operators that did not exist, then design 
> the operators that make those operators work, etc.  until you 
> were at the lowest level of operator.  But the beauty was 
> that every operator was an extension to the language for 
> other projects without any effort other than you had better 
> document your language extensions well, if you expected to 
> use them again.
> 
> One of the weaknesses of XTalk/Transcript in my opinion was 
> that you could not directly and efficiently extend the 
> language in this same way.
> 
> So It seems to me that TAOO is an environment that provides a 
> framework for an extensible language --but not as effeciently 
> as if it were built into the language at the primitive level.
> 
> So the strength of TAOO would be this extensible language 
> framework plus all the "extension definitions" that you have 
> already written.
> 
> Do I have a correct picture yet in simple terms???
> 
> Dennis
> 
> 
> On Oct 16, 2005, at 4:02 AM, MisterX wrote:
> 
> >
> > Monsieurx.com is being revamped silently into Wiki and without the 
> > wacky MisterX's adventure content.
> >
> > You can come and preview the website at http://monsieurx.com/wiki
> >
> > I think you will like it, it's more to the point and I'll 
> be working 
> > hard to make it easier to understand...
> >
> > your comments are welcome, join in and send your questions 
> to the faq 
> > and don?t be shy to comment or suggest articles and 
> examples you would 
> > like to see...
> >
> > regards
> > Xavier
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> 



From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Oct 17 01:41:26 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:41:26 -0500
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX...
	Ajax	vs	TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <43531A3B.2040404@fourthworld.com>
References: <OF35B56E59.B560395E-ONC125709A.00264755-C125709A.00281EC5@deutsche-boerse	.com>	<p06230904bf7582b038ac@[192.168.1.101]>	<4350635D.2010005@tweedly.net>	<43518545.2020308@fourthworld.com>	<F7FD743C-8B76-4724-B142-9AE15663EEB4@openpartnership.net>	<12110241756.20051016110646@ahsoftware.net>	<1CDDEA47-1954-46E0-BA3A-970C830008FC@openpartnership.net>	<4352ACCB.9070206@fourthworld.com>	<230950294.20051016165154@ahsoftware.net>
	<43531A3B.2040404@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <43533986.9070305@chipp.com>

Richard,

I agree, but like you, I tend to work alone, or with 1 other programmer. 
One of the things I really like about Rev, is the longer you program 
with it, the more it reveals itself as a fundamentally sound architecture.

Case in point. The reason I developed MagicCarpet initially was for a 
project where 3 rev programmers were working simultaneously. One was 
doing interfaces, while another was testing, and a third coding. It 
worked pretty well. But, as I move on, I find I really like to 'segment' 
my code into many different libraries and plugins. One of the great 
things about doing it this way, is you can create 'black box' objects 
which can be abstracted to a level where you can reuse them again and 
again. Another great advantage with numerous smaller stacks, is that 
you're only 'touching' one part of the code, and for large projects, 
that's just fine with me!

Some of my projects have in excess of 20 stacks. Each one is version 
controlled by MagicCarpet and when I upload a single stack, it 
automatically updates all clients in the field. By working with small 
stacks, I keep mistakes to a minimum.

Frankly, I can't imagine working on a team with a really large stack 
being shared by multiple programmers. OMG! The hair bristles on the back 
  of my neck just thinking about it. I'd much rather have you do one 
library, and Mark do another and me work on gluing them together.

best,

Chipp

Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Mark Wieder wrote:
> 
>> What I'm interested in, though, is opening up a path to a more
>> granular approach to rev development. If you don't need to get more
>> atomic than one stack-one developer then you're home free. But if
>> you've got complex projects and need to have developers check out an
>> object from a stack, work on it, and check it back in, then nobody
>> else can work on that stack without the pain of merging objects.
> 
> 
> Can you tell us a bit more about projects you've worked on where 
> multiple team members needed to work on different controls in the same 
> window at the same time?
> 
> This is different from my own, perhaps limited, experience, and any 
> toolmakers would do well to try to understand as many workflow models as 
> practical.


From bvlahos at mac.com  Mon Oct 17 01:46:25 2005
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 22:46:25 -0700
Subject: FORTH
In-Reply-To: <20051017042726.A10AF82523D@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051017042726.A10AF82523D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <88f27017ec56a104ed2b1e3fa23c5c5a@mac.com>

Ah Neon. It was the first language I bought for the Mac. It was object 
oriented and everything.

I never could get the hang of it though - just awful. Too bad. I always 
wanted to say. "I program in neon."

Bill

On Oct 16, 2005, at 9:58 PM, MisterX wrote:

> that's possible! but forth wasn't in mind though I did try long ago
> a forth language on my first mac named Neon... If anyone remembers it!
>
> cheers
> Xavier 



From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Oct 17 01:49:03 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:49:03 -0500
Subject: ANN: Constellation Script & Property Editor 1.0.0 Released
In-Reply-To: <F6F86350-0045-4FA9-945D-54BEED9F3988@daniels-mara.com>
References: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>	<p06200702bf75fc9179bd@[10.0.1.2]>	<43505714.1090205@fourthworld.com>	<p06200705bf78a826b17c@[10.0.1.2]>
	<4353172D.90609@fourthworld.com>
	<F6F86350-0045-4FA9-945D-54BEED9F3988@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <43533B4F.7080207@chipp.com>

Jerry,

Congratulations...thought that baby would never drop:-)

For those of you who don't know, Constellation has been in development 
for well over a year. It's certainly a labor of love for the time he's 
put into it (multiple hours every day). I guarantee there's not another 
Rev programmer who knows more about the ins and outs of the Rev IDE than 
Jerry.

It's definitely worth a hard look if you're a serious Rev user. And 
while I do appreciate Rev's updates and bug fixes once a quarter or so, 
Jerry does it with his auto-updating architecture multiple times a week. 
So, if you do run across a problem, a quick email with recipe to Jerry 
and chances are you'll have a fix the next day. That's service!



Jerry Daniels wrote:
> Colleagues and Friends...
> 
> - 31,299 lines of code
> - 1,099 handlers
> - 357 tested versions
> - a script & property editor with tabbed browsing in one window
> - 49 preferences
> 
> It is my pleasure to inform you that the 1.0.0 version of  Constellation 
> has just been released and is available for purchase at  this URL:
> 
>     http://daniels-mara.com/products


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 17 01:59:03 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 22:59:03 -0700
Subject: Revolution back to HyperCard
In-Reply-To: <4353172D.90609@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BF788BB7.2F14A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

I think the key semantic difference is
Hypercard 'find' as command F
Rev 'Find & Replace' dialog box [a different animal] as command F

In my opinion, the Rev Find & Replace is a more powerful set of tools and
provides the ability to locate hits across stacks, as well as containers,
producing a list.  Then (something I wish the Mac System had) the ability to
remove specific items from the hit list.  Now you would be left with a
residual listing on which to apply a 'replace' operation.

The killer feature for me is the grep (regular expression) that I usually
use in BBEdit or altBrowser.rev (extracting pearls from oily residue)

Also note the popup menu of choices for the scope.
Also note that double click = open script window containing hit line.

This is not something that is easily scriptable, as you can with the HCard
'Find'

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 10/16/05 8:14 PM, "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

> Timothy Miller wrote:
>> Sorry, Richard, I probably don't completely understand your question.
>> 
>> I'd guess you were once a HC user, but maybe not. SS stands for
>> searchscript. It was a script that shipped with hyperCard, in the home
>> stack. It was invoked by typing SS into the msg box. It searched for a
>> string in every script in the top stack.
>> 
>> You asked about "each of these scripts." That's the part of your
>> question I didn't understand.
>> 
>> FWIW, I was comparing the speed of Rev's Find stack, searching for a
>> string in any script in the top stack versus hyperCard's SearchScript
>> doing the same job in a similar stack, in classic mode. But you probably
>> understood that part.
>> 
>> Beyond that, I once wrote a test script comparing the milliseconds at
>> beginning and end of script, the "find" command in a repeat loop, to
>> find every instance of a string in any field of a rather large stack. I
>> compared the elapsed time to the time Rev's "Find" stack took to do the
>> same job, in the same stack, searching for field text only. I reported
>> the whole thing on the list 2 or 3 months ago.
>> 
>> As I recall, the "find" command was 59 times faster than the
>> field-text-only find, using Rev's "Find" stack. It was easy to calculate
>> because the script took less than two seconds, whereas the "Find" stack
>> needed more than a minute to do the same job.
>> 
>> Maybe that's what you were asking about. Not sure.
> 
> It seems you understood my question well in spite of my vaguery.  :)
> 
> Rev is generally faster than HC with the exception of certain uses of
> "find" (thanks to Atkinson's patented 'hint bits'), so I'd be curious to
> read an analysis of why the two search solutions are so very different.
> 
> I haven't used SS before, and am not even sure if I still have HC
> installed on this machine.  I don't use the Rev IDE either, but at least
> I do have it around somewhere and could dig out the search window.
> 
> With SS, what does the result give you?  Does it produce a list of found
> objects, or take you to them sequentially?
> 
> I'm pretty confident Rev can deliver a search solution that performs
> roughly on par with HC overall, esp. if we're talking about just
> searching scripts rather than fields, as I believe "hint bits" only
> apply to field objects.
> 
> Maybe I can squeeze some time to sit down with those two scripts and
> figure out where the time is being spent....
> 
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Managing Editor, revJournal
>   _______________________________________________________
>   Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Oct 17 02:36:07 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:36:07 -0700
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs
	TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <43531A3B.2040404@fourthworld.com>
References: <OF35B56E59.B560395E-ONC125709A.00264755-C125709A.00281EC5@deutsche-boerse
	.com> <p06230904bf7582b038ac@[192.168.1.101]>
	<4350635D.2010005@tweedly.net> <43518545.2020308@fourthworld.com>
	<F7FD743C-8B76-4724-B142-9AE15663EEB4@openpartnership.net>
	<12110241756.20051016110646@ahsoftware.net>
	<1CDDEA47-1954-46E0-BA3A-970C830008FC@openpartnership.net>
	<4352ACCB.9070206@fourthworld.com>
	<230950294.20051016165154@ahsoftware.net>
	<43531A3B.2040404@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <17555202877.20051016233607@ahsoftware.net>

Richard-

Sunday, October 16, 2005, 8:27:55 PM, you wrote:

> Can you tell us a bit more about projects you've worked on where
> multiple team members needed to work on different controls in the same
> window at the same time?

Sure, but that may be missing the point a bit.

The "problem" is that stacks are monolithic, while most other
development environments use separate files: .c files, .java files,
etc. Splitting a stack into substack files helps - different
developers can work on different parts of a project that way, but a
stack is the smallest atomic unit that can be parceled out.

One problem is that as stack size grows the stack either must be split
into separate substack files to distribute the work or one developer's
work responsibility keeps growing. And splitting a stack into separate
files can require architectural changes that may have consequences
down the line. Another problem with this is that development on a
stack progresses serially (only one developer can work on a stack at a
time, then hand it off to another) versus in parallel (multiple
programmers can tackle different parts at the same time).

I've worked on java projects with 10 or so developers all crafting
pieces of a single application. Let's say someone adds a new routine
to a source file and then wants to add a reference to it to a header
file common to several source files. That developer needs to check out
the header file, make the change, and check it back in. Then when
another developer wants to make a change to the common header file
they check it out, add their change, and check it back in. Nobody can
check out the file while it's being worked on so that changes don't
overwrite each other.

Let's say there are five of us working on a project together spread
out over the world. We either have to divide the work into separate
stacks or we have to email our finished work in token-passing style.
This limits the sort of collaborative projects that can be taken on
with runrev (libraries, for example, are typically single-developer
items).

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Oct 17 02:36:19 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:36:19 -0700
Subject: ANN: Constellation Script & Property Editor 1.0.0 Released
In-Reply-To: <F6F86350-0045-4FA9-945D-54BEED9F3988@daniels-mara.com>
References: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>	<p06200702bf75fc9179bd@[10.0.1.2]>
	<43505714.1090205@fourthworld.com>
	<p06200705bf78a826b17c@[10.0.1.2]> <4353172D.90609@fourthworld.com>
	<F6F86350-0045-4FA9-945D-54BEED9F3988@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <45D51469-DFE3-4C69-873A-AE06E6CBE8F5@danshafer.com>

Constellation began life at the Revolution Masters Summit in Monterey  
two summers ago when we were all kicking around Rev IDE replacements.  
Some of us were bemoaning the absence of an IDE for Rev that would  
look and behave more like a multi-pane, single-environment  
development tool a la Smalltalk. Jerrry caught the vision and now, at  
long last, he is shipping Constellation.

I've been one of the early testers on this baby from the beginning  
and I have to say that I really, really, REALLY like it. A lot. You  
can spend an entire development cycle in Constellation and never  
leave it. You'll also never have to dork around with dozens of open  
windows and palettes getting lost behind each other. The fact that  
Rev *still* hasn't fixed the stupid backdrop capability so it works  
well in their IDE is a non-issue because with Constellation as your  
IDE, you never have to worry about losing things in the confusion of  
the window-filled screen. And yet, with multiple tabs available, you  
can have multiple stacks, cards, or other objects open and switch  
between then with great ease.

Once you get used to developing in Constellation, it's hard to go  
back to the piecemeal, disjointed-feeling approach taken by the Rev  
IDE. And I can guarantee you that Constellation has fewer quirks and  
bugs and anomalies than the Rev IDE. I sometimes work for several  
hours in Constellation on a project -- even once or twice on multiple  
projects -- and never get lost. Truly amazing.

Give it a whirl, but give it enough of a chance to get your arms  
around it. It's as powerful as the Rev IDE in almost every way and  
it's easier to use but it does require you to undo some of the Rev  
IDE thinking you've grown accustomed to.

For me, Constellation is as big a leap forward as was finding  
Revolution in the first place.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Oct 17 02:44:39 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:44:39 -0700
Subject: ANN: New Website for TAOO
In-Reply-To: <42F5BE95-C26D-4A5F-B749-F4A6E6C9A185@writeme.com>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>
	<9D636A6B-816C-474D-8A05-6DFC00281E8B@writeme.com>
	<2FB4388C-DC1D-4755-8221-79346B5143AB@danshafer.com>
	<42F5BE95-C26D-4A5F-B749-F4A6E6C9A185@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <3AE11123-B821-4BAC-8759-2241B436C673@danshafer.com>

I'm still struggling a bit to grok TAOO as well, Dennis. We've  
established that it's not extensible in the Smalltalk sense (i.e., by  
subclassing and overriding methods). It's more like a collection of  
Rev libraries that go one step beyond the usual libraries by  
providing a generalized framework within which you can build apps and  
other libraries more efficiently.

In that sense, I suspect it's more like a conventional programming  
language set of libraries. You load the libraries, then call their  
functions and commands, which are designed to be as generic as Xavier  
can make them to deal with the most common programming requirements  
he encounters in the kinds of apps he builds. He's inviting us to  
create new libraries that address other kinds of programming  
requirements.


On Oct 16, 2005, at 6:06 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:

> However, if you did not "get" Forth, you might not be able to tell  
> me if I have got any kind of mental hook to grab onto it yet.  I  
> understand Small Talk  is an extensible language and you are  
> familiar with it.  Can you draw any parallels in that direction?
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Oct 17 02:45:45 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:45:45 -0700
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs
	TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <43531564.70306@chipp.com>
References: <BF77DEB1.38EE2%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
	<4352942F.7010104@fourthworld.com>
	<9139634625.20051016192259@ahsoftware.net>
	<43531564.70306@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <8255781179.20051016234545@ahsoftware.net>

Chipp-

Sunday, October 16, 2005, 8:07:16 PM, you wrote:

> Also, interesting enough, the Filemaker community has picked up on
> MagicCarpet and are now starting to use it for their version control as
> well.

Cool. And that makes sense, now that FileMaker 7 finally allows
separate files instead of the monolithic structure it's always had.
Now if we could just get FileMaker to adopt xTalk to give it a *real*
programming language...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Mon Oct 17 03:09:02 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:09:02 +0200
Subject: ANN: New Website for TAOO
Message-ID: <OF03D18CD3.8B74B65B-ONC125709D.0027454A-C125709D.002700DE@deutsche-boerse.com>

Dan

You can overide or subclass methods. However...

Overide happens at the local stack level - you copy the library's method 
and overide it from the 
local stack's methods. 

Subclassing is a bit different:
You have a mehod called CreateClient that creates clients. If you wanted 
to use that to createClient
objects or Companies, you copy the method, rename it and change what you 
need. 

OR

if you have a generic createobject method, you can improve this one by 
providing what kind of
object you want to create. The createObject is then scripted to either do 
different things per object
(which will overbloat the function) or you create a subtype creation 
branching for the different objects
that createobject can make. Harder to explain given the number of 
choices...

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 17/10/2005 08:44:39:

> I'm still struggling a bit to grok TAOO as well, Dennis. We've 
> established that it's not extensible in the Smalltalk sense (i.e., by 
> subclassing and overriding methods). It's more like a collection of 
> Rev libraries that go one step beyond the usual libraries by 
> providing a generalized framework within which you can build apps and 
> other libraries more efficiently.
> 
> In that sense, I suspect it's more like a conventional programming 
> language set of libraries. You load the libraries, then call their 
> functions and commands, which are designed to be as generic as Xavier 
> can make them to deal with the most common programming requirements 
> he encounters in the kinds of apps he builds. He's inviting us to 
> create new libraries that address other kinds of programming 
> requirements.
> 
> 
> On Oct 16, 2005, at 6:06 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:
> 
> > However, if you did not "get" Forth, you might not be able to tell 
> > me if I have got any kind of mental hook to grab onto it yet.  I 
> > understand Small Talk  is an extensible language and you are 
> > familiar with it.  Can you draw any parallels in that direction?
> >
> 
> 
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
> http://www.shafermedia.com
> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>  From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.


Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
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From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Mon Oct 17 03:09:22 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:09:22 +0200
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax
	vs	TAOO]
Message-ID: <OF7840D9E5.46EAAAF3-ONC125709D.00274D4D-C125709D.002708B2@deutsche-boerse.com>

Mark

I'd rather build the same level of ease of FMP into Rev than the opposite 
(which is unlikely to happen)...

MS Access is more flexible in this way... alas...

cheers
---------------------=---------------------
Xavier Bury
Clearstream Services
TNS NT LAN Server

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 17/10/2005 08:45:45:

> Chipp-
> 
> Sunday, October 16, 2005, 8:07:16 PM, you wrote:
> 
> > Also, interesting enough, the Filemaker community has picked up on
> > MagicCarpet and are now starting to use it for their version control 
as
> > well.
> 
> Cool. And that makes sense, now that FileMaker 7 finally allows
> separate files instead of the monolithic structure it's always had.
> Now if we could just get FileMaker to adopt xTalk to give it a *real*
> programming language...
> 
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.


Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From shaosean at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 17 03:18:36 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 03:18:36 -0400
Subject: revGoUrl & POST
Message-ID: <BAY105-F16F484ED3E9CAAD9187930C37E0@phx.gbl>

I don't know how revGoUrl works (never used it) but if you can add HTTP 
Header data then you should, in theory, be able to POST data. I can't 
remember how it's done, but I did it once before in a program for a client 
to admin his online photos (RunRev application talking to PHP files). I can 
dig it up if required.

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Mon Oct 17 03:41:47 2005
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (Scott Morrow)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:41:47 -0700
Subject: control layer in a grp
Message-ID: <c28bb7fbd6f651dffba82249c1a8813f@elementarysoftware.com>

I'm wondering if there is an easier (faster) way to discover the 
stacking number of a specific field within a group (the control's 
stacking number just within that group) without using a repeat 
structure to step through all the controls in that group, checking each 
one to see if it is a match.

-Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust !)
web     http://elementarysoftware.com/
email   scott at elementarysoftware.com

-----------------------------------------------------------------



From 36degrees at runrev.com  Mon Oct 17 04:54:25 2005
From: 36degrees at runrev.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:54:25 +0100
Subject: Unicode on Win 98/ME
In-Reply-To: <16007C03-924F-4F2C-9311-D2127FF89426@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <16007C03-924F-4F2C-9311-D2127FF89426@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <1129539265.32274.36.camel@rachmaninov>

Hi Trevor,

At present Revolution uses the available OS features for its Unicode
support - which effectively means that for Win98/ME you don't get a
great deal.

The OS support for Unicode on these platforms is somewhat sketchy as
(internally) all text is still treated as being in the appropriate
language-specific character encoding. Basically, at the OS level all one
can do is convert strings, measure strings and draw strings consisting
of Unicode characters. However, there is no complex script support, and
there are some limitations.

Basically, the support provided on these platforms is certainly suitable
for localisation of an application to the system language present on the
target OS but not necessarily for multi-lingual applications. (e.g. You
can write an application that is localised in Chinese to run on Chinese
Windows 98, but attempting to run the Chinese version on the pan-
European edition of Windows 98 will most-likely fail).

Also there are some oddities. For example, Chinese Windows 98 is
(apparantly) unable to draw text containing characters with unicode
codepoints 128-255 - as (even when passed Unicode 2-byte characters) it
sees any of these as a shift to a 2-byte character. The upshot being
that Roman accents get eaten along with the subsequent character and
displayed as a random Chinese glyph. (What is even more strange is that
Japanese Windows 98 does not display this phenomenon even though it uses
a similar multi-byte encoding at its core).

Overall, if you are just localising an application to a target language
then you should be fine. However, if you are wishing to mix alphabets on
a single application then do some testing on the target versions of
Windows 98/ME first - install any required fonts and check that you can
display text using glyphs from them just in case there are any other
Chinese-like gremlins lurking.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.
 
------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mark Waddingham ~ 36degrees at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com
       Runtime Revolution ~ User-Centric Development Tools



From david at openpartnership.net  Mon Oct 17 05:18:35 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (david bovill)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:18:35 +0200
Subject: OT: Wikis
In-Reply-To: <50142A72-CB9A-4893-B683-0617ED8A598F@danshafer.com>
References: <20051016034722.71B61825110@mail.runrev.com>
	<55869C57-BE72-4790-B394-3B9339CFF42D@hindu.org>
	<C1865A7C-1C88-4A2E-97C5-3E20433E4F2D@openpartnership.net>
	<50142A72-CB9A-4893-B683-0617ED8A598F@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <E2DFF433-8888-4B7B-A204-9427D00AF981@openpartnership.net>


On 17 Oct 2005, at 02:08, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Aha! Another (ex?) Zopista lurks.
>
> WHy did you abandon ZOpe (assuming you did)?

Mostly due to social reasons - python developers can be impossible :)  
Well then there was the "larger community" and the "do we really need  
this heavy weight overhead" stuff... but really it came down to where  
the people were - it's a quality vs quantity desicion.

> And have you looked at Zwiki, a Wiki done in Zope?

Yes used that for first www.openpartnership.net site. I like Zope. It  
actually feels like Revolution but hosted as a web application. It  
has the same objects within objects stuff, but also has the  
templating language (which is a bit like background groups).  
Absolutely everything is available via XML-RPC - so it really tempts  
you to make a Revolution front end and ditch all that Web front end  
stuff.

So yes still tempted by the beast :) Any other Zopista's out there?


From mlange at lexicall.org  Mon Oct 17 06:45:59 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:45:59 +0100
Subject: revDocWiki
Message-ID: <C42F18AE-550C-439E-B94C-8DCACEBF10AB@lexicall.org>

<Timothy wrote>
> I said on the old thread that the ideal revDocWiki would begin with  
> the existing Rev docs, which would then be improved, edited,  
> expanded, scripting examples added, and maybe links to mini-stacks  
> that demonstrating various features and topics in more depth, and  
> so on. It seemed to me that there would have to be some responsible  
> editorial control over the Wiki, even if the editors were  
> volunteers authorized by Rev, or authorized by some kind of panel  
> of Rev gurus, or something.

This is an excellent suggestion... but yes, the initiative or at  
least approval for such an initiative has to come from revolution.  
Converting the doc into html or wiki format is not the issue. And  
yes, there need to be a small group of trusted editors taking care of  
this.

The environment to look at, then, is something like plone/zope. You  
can easily have documents that have for status "submitted" and not  
put on-line before approval from the editors... again, the issue  
there is reputation. Understandbly Revolution would prefer to avoid  
any solution where there is a risk of the content become filled with  
errors.

Another option to consider is writing a tutorial wikibook. Killing  
two birds with the same stone: Regularly updated documetnation +  
Promoting Revolution to a larger market.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Programming:REBOL

<Russ wrote>
> I did find this http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php? 
> page=SoftwareRevolution, but felt that it wasn't quite what I was  
> looking for.

In what sense?

These page are meant to serve exactly the same purpose  you propose.
http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php? 
page=RevolutionSnippetTips
http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=ProgrammingXtalk
http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php? 
page=TutorialsTeachers

I agree, this is a bit burried down, there is too much content on  
this wiki... I try to give more visibility to what seems to trigger  
interest (feedback on the list, number of hits on the page in the  
week that follows any announcement I make). And I advertise on  
mailing lists like this content that more specifically of interest to  
a given community.  :-).

> So, I've set up a wiki at http://revdocwiki.wikispaces.org/ . I've  
> posted the 3 work arounds for the issues that have caused me the  
> most frustration up until now. Wikispaces.org is new to me, so I  
> can't vouch for them as a reliable space to host this information,  
> however, I figure it's worth trying it out.
> If anyone else is interested, please take a look and maybe post  
> some information there as well.

Honestly, I am very unconfortable with the fact you have an AdsSense  
Google for a page where (1) you expect others to contribute to the  
content and (2) you try to have your wiki assume some official role  
(if you created your wiki as a follow up to Timothy's email).  
AdsSense Google are perfectly ok in the context of blogs, or personal  
website, but when found on a website which invites me to contribute  
quality content, I expect to earn a few pences every time I  
contribute something ;).

Marielle

PS. Busy... not the time to follow all emails on this list... going  
away for a wedding (mine actually) in less than 10 days.... will have  
even less presence then as I will be away for a full month... Anybody  
to keep an eye on my wiki during that time (coming close from a  
computer during my honeymoon would be preparing a case for divorce :) ).

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage:  http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Lexicall: http://lexicall.org
Revolution-education: http://revolution.lexicall.org



From AbilityForms at aol.com  Mon Oct 17 07:19:08 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 07:19:08 EDT
Subject: Ampersand (&) menuitem question.
Message-ID: <1c2.335850a6.3084e2ac@aol.com>

Hi Everyone,

Is there a way to put an ampersand (&) in a menu item without it signaling a 
mnemonic? I'm on a Mac and my stack is only for my use.

Joe, Orlando, Florida


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Mon Oct 17 07:22:27 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:22:27 +0200
Subject: Ampersand (&) menuitem question.
In-Reply-To: <1c2.335850a6.3084e2ac@aol.com>
Message-ID: <OF81882C67.55636C3E-ONC125709D.003E4F50-C125709D.003E7884@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Joe

put && to show up 1 ampersand...
same for //
---------------------=---------------------
Xavier


use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 17/10/2005 13:19:08:

> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Is there a way to put an ampersand (&) in a menu item without it 
signaling a 
> mnemonic? I'm on a Mac and my stack is only for my use.
> 
> Joe, Orlando, Florida
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



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From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Mon Oct 17 07:55:54 2005
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 06:55:54 -0500
Subject: ANN: Constellation Script & Property Editor 1.0.0 Released
In-Reply-To: <B48334C8-5B5F-4FDC-8CBF-678B95C6E644@mac.com>
References: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
	<p06200702bf75fc9179bd@[10.0.1.2]>
	<43505714.1090205@fourthworld.com>
	<p06200705bf78a826b17c@[10.0.1.2]> <4353172D.90609@fourthworld.com>
	<F6F86350-0045-4FA9-945D-54BEED9F3988@daniels-mara.com>
	<B48334C8-5B5F-4FDC-8CBF-678B95C6E644@mac.com>
Message-ID: <0A333526-696D-48A9-BA2C-98479F5135FB@daniels-mara.com>

Andre,

Thanks for your kind words. It would appear that in addition to being  
a great coder and host of a television program, you're a poet!

Best,

Jerry

On Oct 16, 2005, at 11:27 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Jerry,
>
> If I could write 31,300 lines of Thanks, I'd do it!!!! I remember  
> falling in love with Rev when I first understood mchttpd.mc and  
> realized the power of xTalk... now I think is the second time, not  
> only Constellation but the whole plugin suite is a must-have  
> addition to everyone!!! The easy of use, everything is just there,  
> properties, preview, code all in one nice window, I just can't  
> leave the editor... it's always open, it's always there!
>
> Jerry, many thanks for this wonderfull program, I am more  
> productive than ever, my workflow now is like a gently river where  
> everything flows togheter and not as it was before, my workflow  
> before constellation seemed a waterfall with rocks and obstacles  
> where although everything flowed in the same direction some bumps  
> where expected (hated going from inspector to code editor and  
> switching lots of palletes.)
>
> To all the readers, if you guys are not using Jerry Daniels tools  
> you don't know what you're missing (an is lots of fun!). Its not  
> only usefull, it even looks pretty!
>
> Cheers and thanks
> andre
>
> On Oct 17, 2005, at 1:55 AM, Jerry Daniels wrote:
>
>
>> Colleagues and Friends...
>>
>> - 31,299 lines of code
>> - 1,099 handlers
>> - 357 tested versions
>> - a script & property editor with tabbed browsing in one window
>> - 49 preferences
>>
>> It is my pleasure to inform you that the 1.0.0 version of  
>> Constellation has just been released and is available for purchase  
>> at this URL:
>>
>>     http://daniels-mara.com/products
>>
>> For those who would like a preview of how Constellation works,  
>> there are QuickTime? movie tutorials available through a link on  
>> the D&M Constellation web page. Look for "QuickTime Tutorials for  
>> Constellation" at mid-page and click it. Or click below to go  
>> directly to "The Hitchhiker's Guide to Constellation":
>>
>>     http://daniels-mara.com/products/constellation1.htm
>>
>> Re-cap of Release Info
>>
>> - This release version of Constellation will carry the full retail  
>> price of $50 US.
>>
>> - This licensing fee entitles the purchaser to a year of upgrades.
>>
>> - At the purchase date anniversary, renewals cost one-half the  
>> retail price.
>>
>> - Pre-release purchasers' one year free subscription will begin  
>> tomorrow (October 17, 2005).
>>
>> - The Gadget Suite (Constellation, Inspection Gadget, Object  
>> Gadget, Transcript Gadget, Time Gadget) still sells for $60 US as  
>> long as the non-Constellation gadgets are in pre-release.
>>
>> - Gadget Bar is still free of charge.
>>
>> Acknowledgments
>>
>> I'd like to give special thanks to the early adopters who bought  
>> in the pre-release phase and EXTRA thanks to the testers--?ric  
>> Miclo, Dennis Brown, Alex Tweedly, Sarah Reichelt, Chipp Walters  
>> and Dan Shafer--who generously gave of their time and ingenuity.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Jerry Daniels
>> Daniels & mara
>> www.daniels-mara.com_______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Mon Oct 17 08:02:03 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 08:02:03 -0400
Subject: spacebar messes up focus?
In-Reply-To: <43532B84.6080005@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <09943F58-F73C-4A75-87CC-9223C4E151D4@conncoll.edu>
	<43532B84.6080005@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <F53762D2-02C8-42F7-905B-A9EAC43C0CA6@conncoll.edu>

Thanks -- no, I didn't see this answer before. (Sorry, whoever  
answered; intermittent server problems here.)

Now that I know: How do I turn that off?

Charles Hartman

On Oct 17, 2005, at 12:41 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Charles Hartman wrote:
>
>> (I asked a version of this earlier.) While my stack is running but  
>> at  some pause-point (while debugging, or while a modal dlg box is  
>> up),
>> 1. in the Message Box, as soon as I type a blank space, the focus   
>> disappears (goes somewhere else??), so I can't type any more until  
>> I  mouse-click in the msg-box input space again.
>> 2. now I see the same thing happening with editable text fields in  
>> my  modal dialog box itself -- typing a blank space loses the focus.
>> I don't see anything about this in Rev's Preferences, so I guess   
>> that's the wrong place to look. Any clues?
>>
>
> I think someone answered this last time but maybe you didn't see  
> it. During debugging, the space bar steps through the code. So  
> every time you hit a space while debugging, focus goes back to the  
> script editor and you move forward one line.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Mon Oct 17 08:07:43 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 08:07:43 -0400
Subject: debugging modal dlg boxes
In-Reply-To: <43532CED.1070504@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <5D119653-4D63-4E9A-B200-F70F62C40963@conncoll.edu>
	<43532CED.1070504@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CC4396C8-DC2D-405D-BCC1-B7144EFC8C09@conncoll.edu>


On Oct 17, 2005, at 12:47 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Charles Hartman wrote:
>
>> I know this is a dumb question -- but I'm having a hard time   
>> debugging a modal dialog box. What am I missing?
>> When the box is full, the "Done" button processes its data (and  
>> sends  it off to a MySQL database). But debugging the mouseUp  
>> script for  that button isn't working -- because when I try to  
>> stop at a  breakpoint in it, though the script does stop, I can't  
>> click in it,  or in anything else at all: menus, message box, the  
>> Done button  itself . . . so there's nothing to do but Force Quit,  
>> which doesn't  exactly give me the information I need for debugging.
>> Is there some method for debugging modals that I don't know  
>> about?  Can't find anything in the docs . . .
>>
>
> Unless you have put in some kind of escape route for debugging, you  
> are stuck. Modals just don't allow anything else to happen until  
> they are dismissed.

Ah, OK. The cost of the app (stack) and IDE not being distinct, for  
the sake of avoiding compilation. Hm.

> Fortunately, Rev has a built-in escape from these. Hold down  
> Command-Control-Shift (on Mac, anyway) and click on the stack;  
> you'll get the contextual menu that allows you to change the stack  
> style to something other than modal. Then you won't have to force- 
> quit.

Excellent; that's what I need.

> While debugging, I usually call the stack in some other mode until  
> I know it works; toplevel, or modeless, or anything besides modal.  
> Once it is working correctly, then I change the code back to modal.  
> Note that modal dialogs are
> universally hated and shouldn't be used unless absolutely  
> necessary. ;)

I got into a situation in which a dialog had to be modal, and what it  
did *as* modal was what I needed to debug . . . Which isn't exactly  
*why* I've abandoned that trial design for this app, but it does make  
me glad I did.

Charles Hartman



From david at openpartnership.net  Mon Oct 17 08:12:42 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (david bovill)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:12:42 +0200
Subject: revDocWiki
In-Reply-To: <C42F18AE-550C-439E-B94C-8DCACEBF10AB@lexicall.org>
References: <C42F18AE-550C-439E-B94C-8DCACEBF10AB@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <780C1F7C-276A-4B45-9239-61340D7B7661@openpartnership.net>

On 17 Oct 2005, at 12:45, Marielle Lange wrote:

> Anybody to keep an eye on my wiki during that time

Sure I know TikiWiki pretty well by now - can you give me admin  
access so i can turn off those smileys :)

>> I did find this http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php? 
>> page=SoftwareRevolution, but felt that it wasn't quite what I was  
>> looking for.
>
> In what sense?
>
> These page are meant to serve exactly the same purpose  you propose.
> http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php? 
> page=RevolutionSnippetTips
> http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php? 
> page=ProgrammingXtalk
> http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php? 
> page=TutorialsTeachers
>
> I agree, this is a bit burried down, there is too much content on  
> this wiki...
>
>> So, I've set up a wiki at http://revdocwiki.wikispaces.org/ .

Hmmm... three TikiWiki sites out there, and another wiki. Is it  
really necessary to set up another site - setting up is easy - 
maintenance another thing. Another example of the "revolutionary  
approach" to collaboration perhaps :) Could we not all work on the  
same wiki - said hopefully :)

NB - having some regular crashes with XML parsing in 2.6.1. For  
instance I can parse TikiWiki pages from www.openpartnership.net, but  
testing on http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php? 
page=RevolutionSnippetTips appears to crash Rev.

Has anything changed?






From mcdomi at free.fr  Mon Oct 17 08:14:25 2005
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:14:25 +0200
Subject: revDocWiki
In-Reply-To: <C42F18AE-550C-439E-B94C-8DCACEBF10AB@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <1h4ky6k.yvdaer1ihelqbM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Marielle Lange <mlange at lexicall.org> wrote:

> PS. Busy... not the time to follow all emails on this list... going  
> away for a wedding (mine actually) in less than 10 days.... will have
> even less presence then as I will be away for a full month... Anybody
> to keep an eye on my wiki during that time (coming close from a  
> computer during my honeymoon would be preparing a case for divorce :) ).

Congratulations.
F?licitations. Nos meilleurs voeux de bonheur :-)

-- 
Revolutionario



From tkuypers at pandora.be  Mon Oct 17 08:29:38 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:29:38 +0200
Subject: Slightly OT: Setting privileges on OS-X
Message-ID: <9BAEE514-E2D3-42B0-9DF4-D45F13D87A46@pandora.be>

Hi,

Are there Unix-wizzkids out there?

I've created a small RR app that creates a bunch of standard folders  
(like the list below) where users can drop job-related items in.

Now I need to secure these folders, but not the content...
The folders I create may not be deleted by a user, only by the owner,  
which will be me :-)) but the users are allowed to create new folders  
or files in the basic folders. These files and folders they should be  
able to change, delete, rename, etc.

I've found a lot of examples on the web, but I don't know anything on  
unix privileges, Sticky Bits, etc...
Is there anyone around who has created a shell script or an app that  
does thins like this? If not I will have a sleepless night in solving  
this, because I know it should be possible...


Any help is welcome

Ton Kuypers


Example:
Job 1                             Read Write
     Folder 1                    Read Write
         Folder 1                Read Write
             UserFolder 1   Read Write Delete
                 UserFile 1    Read Write Delete
                 UserFile 2    Read Write Delete
                 UserFile 3    Read Write Delete
             UserFile 1        Read Write Delete
             UserFile 2        Read Write Delete
             UserFile 3        Read Write Delete
         Folder 2                Read Write
             UserFolder 2   Read Write Delete
                 UserFile 1    Read Write Delete
                 UserFile 2    Read Write Delete
                 UserFile 3    Read Write Delete
         UserFile 1            Read Write Delete
         UserFile 2            Read Write Delete
         UserFile 3            Read Write Delete
     Folder 2                    Read Write
         Folder 1                Read Write
         Folder 2                Read Write
             Folder 1            Read Write
             UserFolder 1   Read Write Delete
                 UserFile 1    Read Write Delete
                 UserFile 2    Read Write Delete
                 UserFile 3    Read Write Delete
             Folder 2            Read Write
             Folder 3            Read Write
         Folder 3                Read Write
         Folder 4                Read Write
Job 2                             Read Write
     Folder 1                    Read Write
         Folder 1                Read Write
         Folder 2                Read Write
     Folder 2                    Read Write
         Folder 1                Read Write
         Folder 2                Read Write
             Folder 1            Read Write
             Folder 2            Read Write
             Folder 3            Read Write
         Folder 3                Read Write
         Folder 4                Read Write

etc.






From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Mon Oct 17 09:40:13 2005
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:40:13 -0400
Subject: [Ann] Mini Bitmap editor
Message-ID: <OF651943D0.38C0C303-ON8525709D.004A89C2@sealedair.com>

> Hi all,
> 
> inspired by Mark and with the help of Wouter I have put together a
> little stack. You find it in Revonline.
> 
> User: Malte
> Stack: mini bitmap editor
> Category: programming
> 
> It allows to set colored squares in a 32 by 32 grid and calculate a 32
> by 32 Pixel image from it. That was fun. :-)
> 
> I hope you like it.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Malte

To expand on this wonderful little tool, it would be great if it could 
also save out standard Mac or PC icon files. Rev has needed a built-in 
icon creation tool forever. This is an excellent beginning toward such a 
tool. It would also be great if Rev itself would allow you to simply 
choose an image in a stack as an icon.

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>



From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Mon Oct 17 09:55:45 2005
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (ron barber)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:55:45 +0900
Subject: Unicode - Printing
In-Reply-To: <1129539265.32274.36.camel@rachmaninov>
References: <16007C03-924F-4F2C-9311-D2127FF89426@mangomultimedia.com>
	<1129539265.32274.36.camel@rachmaninov>
Message-ID: <61ea57b7839aa4789164e5e87ae7c06f@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Hi,

I was pleased to read in the release notes that we can now print 
unicode. I must be doing something wrong however since I have been 
unsuccessful so far.

1. printtext theunicodetext

prints the unencoded unicode text

2. printfield the name of fld 1

prints solid black bars for the length of each text line.

So, what am I doing wrong?

OS X 10.3.9 English system

Thanks
Ron



From jhurley at infostations.com  Mon Oct 17 09:56:11 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 06:56:11 -0700
Subject: Math wizardry - revisited and corrected.
In-Reply-To: <20051017044130.2463C825299@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051017044130.2463C825299@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230900bf7959142ba9@[69.19.229.124]>

>
>Message: 6
>Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:09:18 -0400
>From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com
>Subject: Re: Math wizardry - revisited and corrected.
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Message-ID: <OFD3D77996.AC5738CD-ON8525709D.0010C745 at sealedair.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>>  So multiply by (180 / pi)
>
>Alex,
>
>I was able to get the function to work with your earlier suggestion 
>"multiply by (360/ pi)", but using 180 makes it whack out (that's a 
>technical term) no matter
>what I try.  ;-)
>
>Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>
>


Roger,

Alex is right. It should be 180/pi.

Perhaps the problem is how you  measure the angle. Remember that the 
y-axis points down in RR. Angle are measure CLOCKWISE from the 
horizontal.

Jim

PS If you want to test then then run this in the message box:

go stack  url  "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/angleTest.rev"


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Mon Oct 17 10:18:59 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:18:59 +0100
Subject: Arrays and Lists
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-F16F484ED3E9CAAD9187930C37E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY105-F16F484ED3E9CAAD9187930C37E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <a05210600bf79621d213f@[192.168.0.100]>

Hi,

This doesn't seem to work althouigh you don't get an error!

on mouseUp
local myArray1
local myArray2
local myArrayX
local myArrayY
local myList

put "Test1" into myArray1["Array1"]
put "Test2" into myArray2["Array2"]

put myArray1 into item 1 of myList
put myArray2 into item 2 of myList

put item 1 of myList myArrayX
put item 2 of myList into myArrayY
end mouseUp

I to hold a dynamic list of arrays, how else can I do this in RunRev?

Thanks a lot
All the Best
Dave




From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Oct 17 10:47:21 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 07:47:21 -0700
Subject: Unicode on Win 98/ME
In-Reply-To: <1129539265.32274.36.camel@rachmaninov>
References: <16007C03-924F-4F2C-9311-D2127FF89426@mangomultimedia.com>
	<1129539265.32274.36.camel@rachmaninov>
Message-ID: <70300CA0-8D42-4AE3-8E38-754CEA78DC8F@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 17, 2005, at 1:54 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote:

> Hi Trevor,
>
> At present Revolution uses the available OS features for its Unicode
> support - which effectively means that for Win98/ME you don't get a
> great deal.

> snip...

Thanks Mark.  Very useful information.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Mon Oct 17 11:00:31 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:00:31 +0100
Subject: Function to break apart a Long Name?
In-Reply-To: <p06230900bf7959142ba9@[69.19.229.124]>
References: <20051017044130.2463C825299@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230900bf7959142ba9@[69.19.229.124]>
Message-ID: <a05210601bf796bf671ac@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

Does anyone know of a function that will extract name of the Control, 
Group, Card and Stack from a long name string?

e.g. I have a string of the form:

control "A" of group "B" of card "C" of stack "D"

And I would like to have:

local myControlName  = A
local myGroupName = B
local myCardName = C
local myStackName = D

Any tips of how to write some code to do this would be greatly 
appreciated if there is not a standard function available.

I haven't used the string function in RunRev much and I'm having 
difficulty in working out the best way to do this.

Thanks a lot
All the Best
Dave


From david at openpartnership.net  Mon Oct 17 11:00:42 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (david bovill)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:00:42 +0200
Subject: control layer in a grp
In-Reply-To: <c28bb7fbd6f651dffba82249c1a8813f@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <c28bb7fbd6f651dffba82249c1a8813f@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <6BC51EAD-69BB-4B3B-AD48-C067539F8822@openpartnership.net>

No sorry - don't think there is.

On 17 Oct 2005, at 09:41, Scott Morrow wrote:

> I'm wondering if there is an easier (faster) way to discover the  
> stacking number of a specific field within a group (the control's  
> stacking number just within that group) without using a repeat  
> structure to step through all the controls in that group, checking  
> each one to see if it is a match.


From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Mon Oct 17 11:11:50 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 08:11:50 -0700
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs
 TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <8255781179.20051016234545@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <BF790D46.38FFB%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>



On 10/16/05 11:45 PM, "Mark Wieder" <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:

> Cool. And that makes sense, now that FileMaker 7 finally allows
> separate files instead of the monolithic structure it's always had.
> Now if we could just get FileMaker to adopt xTalk to give it a *real*
> programming language...

Actually FileMaker 7 (and now FileMaker 8) encourages development in less
files then before.

Pre FileMaker 7 every table was in its own file

Since FileMaker all your tables can be in one file.  Note I said "can be".
they don't have to be, but most developers want less files. For good
reasons.

What did happen with FileMaker 7 is the possibility of separating data from
interface.

Todd

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Mon Oct 17 11:17:05 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 08:17:05 -0700
Subject: vAlign Images in lines of text
Message-ID: <BF790E81.38FFE%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Hello,

I used set imageSource to put a little Icon in a line of text.

What I get is both the Icon and the text aligned to the text base line

What I want is for the text to be centered on the Icon.

Is this possible?

Thanks

Todd



-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Oct 17 11:37:23 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 08:37:23 -0700
Subject: vAlign Images in lines of text
In-Reply-To: <BF790E81.38FFE%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <BF791343.22F42%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Todd Geist  wrote:

> I used set imageSource to put a little Icon in a line of text.
> 
> What I get is both the Icon and the text aligned to the text base line
> 
> What I want is for the text to be centered on the Icon.
> 
> Is this possible?

I've done this by adding transparent space to the image (top or bottom
depending on the image and the textHeight/textSize of the field).  You may
also need to fiddle with the fixedLineheight to get the alignment to work.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From simplsol at aol.com  Mon Oct 17 11:38:06 2005
From: simplsol at aol.com (simplsol at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:38:06 -0400
Subject: FORTH and Hypercard
In-Reply-To: <43532AE3.1020408@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>	<9D636A6B-816C-474D-8A05-6DFC00281E8B@writeme.com>	<12727908039.20051016160112@ahsoftware.net>	<A866E244-3D54-42BC-B1BB-3FDB5EF501D4@writeme.com>	<p06230900bf78b176ada2@[192.168.1.101]>
	<43532AE3.1020408@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <8C7A147E73D95D5-E60-3B3@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com>

Jacque,
 I wonder if Scott would come to the same conclusion today.
  On modern computers messages can transverse the entire path in 
nanoseconds. While Rev. definitely feels faster than HC on all the 
computers where I've used it, HC was tolerable even on an 8 MHZ Mac 
Plus of the mid 80's - so passing messages through the entire hierarchy 
is not excessively burdensome. The ability to intercept and redefine 
handles would be worth a modest speed tradeoff today - and we are 
scheduled to have 10 GHZ computers by the end of this decade.
  Of course the debate is academic. The Rev. team has years worth of bug 
fixes to address before reworking the engine.
 Paul Looney

 -----Original Message-----
 From: J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
 To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
 Sent: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:38:59 -0500
 Subject: Re: FORTH and Hypercard

 Stephen Barncard wrote:?
 ?
  > I also liked a feature of Hypercard that was like forth - you could 
 > redefine and intercept a lower level handler using the same name. I > 
guess it was a design decision to not allow that in Transcript.... but 
why??
 ?
  Speed. Raney wouldn't put it in, and now that I'm used to it, I agree 
with his decision (though I argued with him about it at first.) In 
order to override a built-in token with a handler of the same name, all 
commands would have to pass through the message hierarchy. As it is 
now, they go directly to the engine which is one of the reasons that 
Rev is so fast.?
 ?
 -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com?
 HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com?
 _______________________________________________?
 use-revolution mailing list?
 use-revolution at lists.runrev.com?
  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:?
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution?

  


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Oct 17 11:50:39 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:50:39 +0200
Subject: Function to break apart a Long Name?
In-Reply-To: <a05210601bf796bf671ac@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <20051017044130.2463C825299@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230900bf7959142ba9@[69.19.229.124]>
	<a05210601bf796bf671ac@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <00F28269-80F7-46AB-81A9-82FCF5866361@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Dave,

function ObjectsList pLongName
   replace space & "of" & space with comma in pLongName
   return pLongName
end ObjectsList

Then you get a comma delimited list of all objects:
 From 'button "Button" of group "group" of card "card" of stack  
"Untitled 1"'
you get 'button "Button",group "group",card "card",stack "Untitled 1"'

As for extracting only the names from the above list, using something  
like value(word 2 to -1 of item x of tList) will do the trick :-)

Hope this helps.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 17 oct. 05 ? 17:00, David Burgun a ?crit :

> Hi,
>
> Does anyone know of a function that will extract name of the  
> Control, Group, Card and Stack from a long name string?
>
> e.g. I have a string of the form:
>
> control "A" of group "B" of card "C" of stack "D"
>
> And I would like to have:
>
> local myControlName  = A
> local myGroupName = B
> local myCardName = C
> local myStackName = D
>
> Any tips of how to write some code to do this would be greatly  
> appreciated if there is not a standard function available.
>
> I haven't used the string function in RunRev much and I'm having  
> difficulty in working out the best way to do this.
>
> Thanks a lot
> All the Best
> Dave

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
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Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Oct 17 11:55:54 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 08:55:54 -0700
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs
	TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <OF7840D9E5.46EAAAF3-ONC125709D.00274D4D-C125709D.002708B2@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OF7840D9E5.46EAAAF3-ONC125709D.00274D4D-C125709D.002708B2@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <1511213314.20051017085554@ahsoftware.net>

xavier-

Monday, October 17, 2005, 12:09:22 AM, you wrote:

> I'd rather build the same level of ease of FMP into Rev than the opposite
> (which is unlikely to happen)...

Yes, but why reinvent things? Ideally I'd like to see them each do
what they do best.

> MS Access is more flexible in this way... alas...

MSAccess does have a real programming language, even if it's VBA...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Mon Oct 17 11:55:39 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 08:55:39 -0700
Subject: vAlign Images in lines of text
In-Reply-To: <BF791343.22F42%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <BF79178B.39024%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Thanks!


On 10/17/05 8:37 AM, "Scott Rossi" <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:

> I've done this by adding transparent space to the image (top or bottom
> depending on the image and the textHeight/textSize of the field).  You may
> also need to fiddle with the fixedLineheight to get the alignment to work.

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Oct 17 12:06:21 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:06:21 -0700
Subject: control layer in a grp
In-Reply-To: <c28bb7fbd6f651dffba82249c1a8813f@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <c28bb7fbd6f651dffba82249c1a8813f@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <601840646.20051017090621@ahsoftware.net>

Scott-

Monday, October 17, 2005, 12:41:47 AM, you wrote:

> I'm wondering if there is an easier (faster) way to discover the 
> stacking number of a specific field within a group (the control's 
> stacking number just within that group) without using a repeat 
> structure to step through all the controls in that group, checking each
> one to see if it is a match.

if you're looking for a specific button in a group, try something like

 if the hilitedButton of group "gpFilter" is 6 then

...but you've got a group of *fields*? I've used groups of fields but
then just referred to the fields by name, i.e., field "x" of group
"abc". What problem are you trying to solve?

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Oct 17 12:13:22 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:13:22 -0700
Subject: OT: Re: FORTH
In-Reply-To: <88f27017ec56a104ed2b1e3fa23c5c5a@mac.com>
References: <20051017042726.A10AF82523D@mail.runrev.com>
	<88f27017ec56a104ed2b1e3fa23c5c5a@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1462261021.20051017091322@ahsoftware.net>

Bill-

Sunday, October 16, 2005, 10:46:25 PM, you wrote:

> Ah Neon. It was the first language I bought for the Mac. It was object
> oriented and everything.

IIRC Neon was where Michael Hore started when he built Mops and really
took the whole object-oriented thing to a new level.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Oct 17 12:25:56 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:25:56 -0700
Subject: Open source collaboration
In-Reply-To: <43533986.9070305@chipp.com>
References: <OF35B56E59.B560395E-ONC125709A.00264755-C125709A.00281EC5@deutsche-boerse
	.com> <p06230904bf7582b038ac@[192.168.1.101]>
	<4350635D.2010005@tweedly.net> <43518545.2020308@fourthworld.com>
	<F7FD743C-8B76-4724-B142-9AE15663EEB4@openpartnership.net>
	<12110241756.20051016110646@ahsoftware.net>
	<1CDDEA47-1954-46E0-BA3A-970C830008FC@openpartnership.net>
	<4352ACCB.9070206@fourthworld.com>
	<230950294.20051016165154@ahsoftware.net>
	<43531A3B.2040404@fourthworld.com> <43533986.9070305@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <913015435.20051017092556@ahsoftware.net>

Chipp-

Sunday, October 16, 2005, 10:41:26 PM, you wrote:

> One of the things I really like about Rev, is the longer you program
> with it, the more it reveals itself as a fundamentally sound architecture.

...and I'm *extremely* glad the rev team is very cautious about making
any changes to that, even when it's my own suggestions that get
ignored...

> my code into many different libraries and plugins. One of the great
> things about doing it this way, is you can create 'black box' objects
> which can be abstracted to a level where you can reuse them again and
> again. Another great advantage with numerous smaller stacks, is that
> you're only 'touching' one part of the code, and for large projects,
> that's just fine with me!

Absolutely in agreement with all that. Now imagine taking it a step
further and encapsulating some of that code into a single button or
field or group that's self-contained and reusable.

> Frankly, I can't imagine working on a team with a really large stack
> being shared by multiple programmers. OMG! The hair bristles on the back
>   of my neck just thinking about it. I'd much rather have you do one
> library, and Mark do another and me work on gluing them together.

...and this is the way rev development works best right now.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Oct 17 12:24:49 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:24:49 -0700
Subject: ANN: New Website for TAOO
In-Reply-To: <OF03D18CD3.8B74B65B-ONC125709D.0027454A-C125709D.002700DE@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OF03D18CD3.8B74B65B-ONC125709D.0027454A-C125709D.002700DE@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <CFFC8AA6-8F51-4962-A976-46DFA7A3D02C@danshafer.com>

OK, good. That's what I understood. Those approaches are not really  
overriding and subclassing; they are rather copy-paste-tweak methods.  
NOthing wrong with that, you understand, just that they fall short of  
"pure" object orientation.

Dan

On Oct 17, 2005, at 12:09 AM, xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:

> Dan
>
> You can overide or subclass methods. However...
>
> Overide happens at the local stack level - you copy the library's  
> method
> and overide it from the
> local stack's methods.
>
> Subclassing is a bit different:
> You have a mehod called CreateClient that creates clients. If you  
> wanted
> to use that to createClient
> objects or Companies, you copy the method, rename it and change  
> what you
> need.
>
> OR
>
> if you have a generic createobject method, you can improve this one by
> providing what kind of
> object you want to create. The createObject is then scripted to  
> either do
> different things per object
> (which will overbloat the function) or you create a subtype creation
> branching for the different objects
> that createobject can make. Harder to explain given the number of
> choices...
>
> cheers
> Xavier
>
> use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 17/10/2005 08:44:39:
>
>
>> I'm still struggling a bit to grok TAOO as well, Dennis. We've
>> established that it's not extensible in the Smalltalk sense (i.e., by
>> subclassing and overriding methods). It's more like a collection of
>> Rev libraries that go one step beyond the usual libraries by
>> providing a generalized framework within which you can build apps and
>> other libraries more efficiently.
>>
>> In that sense, I suspect it's more like a conventional programming
>> language set of libraries. You load the libraries, then call their
>> functions and commands, which are designed to be as generic as Xavier
>> can make them to deal with the most common programming requirements
>> he encounters in the kinds of apps he builds. He's inviting us to
>> create new libraries that address other kinds of programming
>> requirements.
>>
>>
>> On Oct 16, 2005, at 6:06 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:
>>
>>
>>> However, if you did not "get" Forth, you might not be able to tell
>>> me if I have got any kind of mental hook to grab onto it yet.  I
>>> understand Small Talk  is an extensible language and you are
>>> familiar with it.  Can you draw any parallels in that direction?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
>> http://www.shafermedia.com
>> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>>  From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
> recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
> standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.
>
>
> Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
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>
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> International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
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>



From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Oct 17 12:26:38 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:26:38 -0700
Subject: OT: Wikis
In-Reply-To: <E2DFF433-8888-4B7B-A204-9427D00AF981@openpartnership.net>
References: <20051016034722.71B61825110@mail.runrev.com>
	<55869C57-BE72-4790-B394-3B9339CFF42D@hindu.org>
	<C1865A7C-1C88-4A2E-97C5-3E20433E4F2D@openpartnership.net>
	<50142A72-CB9A-4893-B683-0617ED8A598F@danshafer.com>
	<E2DFF433-8888-4B7B-A204-9427D00AF981@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <97D02F75-02F9-46E5-A1F4-C38E7FC36A40@danshafer.com>

Exactly!

I actually started out to do this one weekend but my hosting service  
for Zope sites shut down so I decided just to leave Zope behind. It  
does have a lot of overhead and a steep learning curve. But it is so  
powerful.

And did I mention that I LOVE Python? heh heh

On Oct 17, 2005, at 2:18 AM, david bovill wrote:

> so it really tempts you to make a Revolution front end and ditch  
> all that Web front end stuff.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Oct 17 12:30:23 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:30:23 -0700
Subject: ANN: New Website for TAOO
In-Reply-To: <OF03D18CD3.8B74B65B-ONC125709D.0027454A-C125709D.002700DE@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OF03D18CD3.8B74B65B-ONC125709D.0027454A-C125709D.002700DE@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <983281728.20051017093023@ahsoftware.net>

xavier-

Monday, October 17, 2005, 12:09:02 AM, you wrote:

> Subclassing is a bit different:
> You have a mehod called CreateClient that creates clients. If you wanted
> to use that to createClient
> objects or Companies, you copy the method, rename it and change what you
> need. 

I don't see how this is subclassing...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From dleyanna at rtl.org  Mon Oct 17 12:30:31 2005
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:30:31 -0400
Subject: ANN: New Website for TAOO
In-Reply-To: <983281728.20051017093023@ahsoftware.net>
References: <OF03D18CD3.8B74B65B-ONC125709D.0027454A-C125709D.002700DE@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<983281728.20051017093023@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <4353D1A7.5080102@rtl.org>

Maybe he should have said "Add what you need", not "change what you 
need" whis is what overloading is (I think...)

Dave

Mark Wieder wrote:

>xavier-
>
>Monday, October 17, 2005, 12:09:02 AM, you wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Subclassing is a bit different:
>>You have a mehod called CreateClient that creates clients. If you wanted
>>to use that to createClient
>>objects or Companies, you copy the method, rename it and change what you
>>need. 
>>    
>>
>
>I don't see how this is subclassing...
>
>  
>



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Oct 17 12:38:29 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:38:29 -0700
Subject: debugging modal dlg boxes
In-Reply-To: <CC4396C8-DC2D-405D-BCC1-B7144EFC8C09@conncoll.edu>
References: <5D119653-4D63-4E9A-B200-F70F62C40963@conncoll.edu>
	<43532CED.1070504@hyperactivesw.com>
	<CC4396C8-DC2D-405D-BCC1-B7144EFC8C09@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <1693767927.20051017093829@ahsoftware.net>

Charles-

Monday, October 17, 2005, 5:07:43 AM, you wrote:

>> Unless you have put in some kind of escape route for debugging, you
>> are stuck. Modals just don't allow anything else to happen until  
>> they are dismissed.

> Ah, OK. The cost of the app (stack) and IDE not being distinct, for
> the sake of avoiding compilation. Hm.

...not exactly. That's just the way modal dialogs work.

> I got into a situation in which a dialog had to be modal, and what it
> did *as* modal was what I needed to debug . . . Which isn't exactly
> *why* I've abandoned that trial design for this app, but it does make
> me glad I did.

There *are* some times when modal dialogs are the best solution for a
given task, and I do use them for that, but I do what Jacque does and
only make them modal once I've gotten them debugged. It's a real pain
otherwise. Rethinking the design is usually a better idea, as you've
discovered.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Oct 17 12:45:29 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:45:29 -0700
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs
	TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <BF790D46.38FFB%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
References: <BF790D46.38FFB%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <1214187721.20051017094529@ahsoftware.net>

Todd-

Monday, October 17, 2005, 8:11:50 AM, you wrote:

> Actually FileMaker 7 (and now FileMaker 8) encourages development in less
> files then before.

My bad. Typing without thinking again. You're right, of course. And
the data/interface separation is definitely a Good Thing.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From see3d at writeme.com  Mon Oct 17 12:50:51 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:50:51 -0400
Subject: Approach to explaining TAOO [was ANN: New Website for TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <20051017050902.815A877134@spf5.us4.outblaze.com>
References: <20051017050902.815A877134@spf5.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <F5290824-35D8-4F22-9404-6745E451E7F2@writeme.com>

Xavier,

If I truly have got "it" then I can suggest an approach to explaining  
"it"

It seems to me that the problem is that you have spent 15 years  
building a "do everything I want" program.  When you try and explain  
it, you end up trying to explain "everything you have wanted" for the  
last 15 years.  This is next to an impossible task without writing a  
book!  However, all is not lost.  You just need to take us back 15  
steps from a technical development point of view.

TAOO is built on a conceptually simple idea that supports the basic  
capability to add functionality.  Instead of telling us all about the  
wonderful functionality you have built on "it", tell us what "it" is  
and how we could use "it" to build our own functionality from the  
humble beginnings.  Then later tell us about just one at a time of  
the wonderful things you have added to "it" to solve a problem.  Most  
important is don't explain anything using terms that are used for OOP  
or any other buzzword rich religion.   Explain from simple concepts  
in normal simple terms that have universal understanding.

At the most primitive level, you are "supporting" a way of defining a  
named script, or a named object with a script.  You also have a  
dictionary of the things that have been defined to make it easy to  
find and specify the use of these things.

We all understand how the things in the last paragraph are defined  
and used in Rev.  How are they different in "it"?

I am not trying to explain TAOO here.  I am trying to explain how you  
can explain to me and others in a way that can be grasped --one easy  
step at a time.  Don't explain too much at once.  Just start with the  
most primitive concept that makes it possible to build on.

If you start this way, and even create a very simple version of "it"  
with almost no added capability for others to try out and explore, I  
am sure you will get a lot of useful feedback and helpful  
participation that you are looking for.

Dennis

On Oct 17, 2005, at 1:12 AM, MisterX wrote:

> you got it!
>
> It's not forth programming with stacks though!
>
> The "name" = object stuff was cleverly left out!
>
> cheers
> Xavier


From davis.phil at comcast.net  Mon Oct 17 12:53:33 2005
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:53:33 -0700
Subject: control layer in a grp
In-Reply-To: <c28bb7fbd6f651dffba82249c1a8813f@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <c28bb7fbd6f651dffba82249c1a8813f@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <4353D70D.7020301@comcast.net>

Hi Scott,

To find the relative layer of a control whose name is unique to the 
current card, his will work:

   put (the layer of control "abc") into tObjectLayer
   put (the layer of the owner of control "abc") into tGroupLayer
   put (tObjectLayer - tGroupLayer) into tObjectRelativeLayer

I broke it into 3 statements to prevent line wrapping - you could do it 
all in one line if so inclined.

HTH -
Phil Davis



Scott Morrow wrote:
> I'm wondering if there is an easier (faster) way to discover the 
> stacking number of a specific field within a group (the control's 
> stacking number just within that group) without using a repeat structure 
> to step through all the controls in that group, checking each one to see 
> if it is a match.
> 
> -Scott Morrow
> 
> Elementary Software
> (Now with 20% less chalk dust !)
> web     http://elementarysoftware.com/
> email   scott at elementarysoftware.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct 17 13:28:08 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:28:08 -0500
Subject: spacebar messes up focus?
In-Reply-To: <F53762D2-02C8-42F7-905B-A9EAC43C0CA6@conncoll.edu>
References: <09943F58-F73C-4A75-87CC-9223C4E151D4@conncoll.edu>
	<43532B84.6080005@hyperactivesw.com>
	<F53762D2-02C8-42F7-905B-A9EAC43C0CA6@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <4353DF28.3070302@hyperactivesw.com>

Charles Hartman wrote:
> Thanks -- no, I didn't see this answer before. (Sorry, whoever  
> answered; intermittent server problems here.)
> 
> Now that I know: How do I turn that off?

There isn't any good way to do that. You can uncheck "Script debug mode" 
in the Development menu, but then all the built-in debugging functions 
won't work. You'd have to write your own.

One work-around might be to put whatever you are typing into the 
clipboard and just paste in the whole phrase. I don't think that gets 
blocked.

Also, the behavior doesn't seem to occur unless you have a modal stack 
frontmost. If you can change your frontmost stack to modeless during 
debugging, you should be able to type as usual.

> 
> Charles Hartman
> 
> On Oct 17, 2005, at 12:41 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> 
>> Charles Hartman wrote:
>>
>>> (I asked a version of this earlier.) While my stack is running but  
>>> at  some pause-point (while debugging, or while a modal dlg box is  up),
>>> 1. in the Message Box, as soon as I type a blank space, the focus   
>>> disappears (goes somewhere else??), so I can't type any more until  
>>> I  mouse-click in the msg-box input space again.
>>> 2. now I see the same thing happening with editable text fields in  
>>> my  modal dialog box itself -- typing a blank space loses the focus.
>>> I don't see anything about this in Rev's Preferences, so I guess   
>>> that's the wrong place to look. Any clues?
>>>
>>
>> I think someone answered this last time but maybe you didn't see  it. 
>> During debugging, the space bar steps through the code. So  every time 
>> you hit a space while debugging, focus goes back to the  script editor 
>> and you move forward one line.
>>
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Oct 17 13:32:56 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:32:56 +0200
Subject: ANN: New Website for TAOO
In-Reply-To: <4353D1A7.5080102@rtl.org>
Message-ID: <20051017170215.4102282537A@mail.runrev.com>

I think we need a reference first

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overloading

now, put into rev context... sorry if I go overboard - im a bit overloaded
;)

if you pass an object or use the function in any dynamic way, you can adapt
the type of the passing object (the parameter or a reference to (or
reference to a group of them) ) to any function or polymorphised handler or
function within dynamic or chosen (controlled) objects types...

on dynamicDoCreate something
do "create" && something

or 

get "create"&something&()

etc... 

that's instantiating (creating meta-methods in this case) and overloading
either operator function or the parameter via an abstract "object-function".
The twist here is using dynamic scripting and semantics to virtualize the
object.

does that make sense?

in other words, the user can call any function via a handler that is
adaptable. whether the function (create <something> exists can be even
created via association (create banana = create fruit because banana is a
fruit and only the create fruit exists). A bit of prolog ideology if you
ever tried the prolog thing - I never did but I studied language design
hence I know a bit about lots of languages... 

cheers
Xav

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Dave LeYanna
> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 6:31 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: ANN: New Website for TAOO
> 
> Maybe he should have said "Add what you need", not "change 
> what you need" whis is what overloading is (I think...)
> 
> Dave
> 
> Mark Wieder wrote:
> 
> >xavier-
> >
> >Monday, October 17, 2005, 12:09:02 AM, you wrote:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Subclassing is a bit different:
> >>You have a mehod called CreateClient that creates clients. If you 
> >>wanted to use that to createClient objects or Companies, 
> you copy the 
> >>method, rename it and change what you need.
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >I don't see how this is subclassing...
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct 17 13:35:14 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:35:14 -0500
Subject: FORTH and Hypercard
In-Reply-To: <8C7A147E73D95D5-E60-3B3@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>	<9D636A6B-816C-474D-8A05-6DFC00281E8B@writeme.com>	<12727908039.20051016160112@ahsoftware.net>	<A866E244-3D54-42BC-B1BB-3FDB5EF501D4@writeme.com>	<p06230900bf78b176ada2@[192.168.1.101]>	<43532AE3.1020408@hyperactivesw.com>
	<8C7A147E73D95D5-E60-3B3@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4353E0D2.5060901@hyperactivesw.com>

simplsol at aol.com wrote:
> Jacque,
> I wonder if Scott would come to the same conclusion today.
>  On modern computers messages can transverse the entire path in 
> nanoseconds.

True, though knowing Scott Raney he wouldn't change it even now. 
However, the reason I changed my mind about the theoretical problem was 
that I couldn't think of any good reasons why I needed the behavior. I 
was used to it in HyperCard, of course, and it came in handy when I was 
trying to fix other people's stacks. But when I really thought about it, 
there wasn't any good reason to override command behaviors in my own 
work. It was just as easy to write a handler with its own name and call 
that.

The only time I really wanted override behavior was to fix a client 
stack that came to me with a "play" command on every one of about 500 
cards. The stack would play irritating sound effects on every user 
action and it was driving the client nuts. They wanted me to remove the 
sounds. In HyperCard I could have overridden the behavior with a single 
"play" handler at the stack level, but as it was I needed to go through 
all the cards and remove the commands from each one.

But if I was writing my own stack, I would have just created a single 
handler at the stack level to begin with, which would be easy to change. 
So, aside from fixing other people's bad code, I couldn't think of any 
reason to ask for the behavior.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From simplsol at aol.com  Mon Oct 17 13:49:31 2005
From: simplsol at aol.com (simplsol at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:49:31 -0400
Subject: FORTH and Hypercard
In-Reply-To: <4353E0D2.5060901@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>	<9D636A6B-816C-474D-8A05-6DFC00281E8B@writeme.com>	<12727908039.20051016160112@ahsoftware.net>	<A866E244-3D54-42BC-B1BB-3FDB5EF501D4@writeme.com>	<p06230900bf78b176ada2@[192.168.1.101]>	<43532AE3.1020408@hyperactivesw.com>	<8C7A147E73D95D5-E60-3B3@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com>
	<4353E0D2.5060901@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <8C7A15A4318FF54-1748-12FA6@MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com>

Jacque,
  I'm thinking primarily of menu commands (stored in a setup plugin) 
which work differently if used in a single-users stack or a multi-user 
database (things like "new card", "next card", etc.) In HC you could 
change the behavior of a script depending on whether a "netWorkOn" 
variable was true or not.
  Of course I can (and do) now send messages with menuPicks that are 
different in one-card client stacks and multi-card data stacks.
 "Change is good...change is good....change is....
 Paul Looney

 -----Original Message-----
 From: J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
 To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
 Sent: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:35:14 -0500
 Subject: Re: FORTH and Hypercard

 simplsol at aol.com wrote:?
 > Jacque,?
 > I wonder if Scott would come to the same conclusion today.?
  > On modern computers messages can transverse the entire path in > 
nanoseconds.?
 ?
  True, though knowing Scott Raney he wouldn't change it even now. 
However, the reason I changed my mind about the theoretical problem was 
that I couldn't think of any good reasons why I needed the behavior. I 
was used to it in HyperCard, of course, and it came in handy when I was 
trying to fix other people's stacks. But when I really thought about 
it, there wasn't any good reason to override command behaviors in my 
own work. It was just as easy to write a handler with its own name and 
call that.?
 ?
  The only time I really wanted override behavior was to fix a client 
stack that came to me with a "play" command on every one of about 500 
cards. The stack would play irritating sound effects on every user 
action and it was driving the client nuts. They wanted me to remove the 
sounds. In HyperCard I could have overridden the behavior with a single 
"play" handler at the stack level, but as it was I needed to go through 
all the cards and remove the commands from each one.?
 ?
  But if I was writing my own stack, I would have just created a single 
handler at the stack level to begin with, which would be easy to 
change. So, aside from fixing other people's bad code, I couldn't think 
of any reason to ask for the behavior.?
 ?
 -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com?
 HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com?
 _______________________________________________?
 use-revolution mailing list?
 use-revolution at lists.runrev.com?
  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:?
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution?

  


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Mon Oct 17 15:07:30 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:07:30 +0100
Subject: Function to break apart a Long Name?
In-Reply-To: <00F28269-80F7-46AB-81A9-82FCF5866361@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <20051017044130.2463C825299@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230900bf7959142ba9@[69.19.229.124]>
	<a05210601bf796bf671ac@[192.168.0.101]>
	<00F28269-80F7-46AB-81A9-82FCF5866361@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <a05210602bf79a6c141cc@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi Eric,

Thanks a lot for this, gave me an insight on how to tackle strings.

All the Best
Dave


>Hi Dave,
>
>function ObjectsList pLongName
>   replace space & "of" & space with comma in pLongName
>   return pLongName
>end ObjectsList
>
>Then you get a comma delimited list of all objects:
>From 'button "Button" of group "group" of card "card" of stack "Untitled 1"'
>you get 'button "Button",group "group",card "card",stack "Untitled 1"'
>
>As for extracting only the names from the above list, using 
>something like value(word 2 to -1 of item x of tList) will do the 
>trick :-)
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Best Regards from Paris,
>
>Eric Chatonet.
>
>Le 17 oct. 05 ? 17:00, David Burgun a ?crit :
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>Does anyone know of a function that will extract name of the 
>>Control, Group, Card and Stack from a long name string?
>>
>>e.g. I have a string of the form:
>>
>>control "A" of group "B" of card "C" of stack "D"
>>
>>And I would like to have:
>>
>>local myControlName  = A
>>local myGroupName = B
>>local myCardName = C
>>local myStackName = D
>>
>>Any tips of how to write some code to do this would be greatly 
>>appreciated if there is not a standard function available.
>>
>>I haven't used the string function in RunRev much and I'm having 
>>difficulty in working out the best way to do this.
>>
>>Thanks a lot
>>All the Best
>>Dave
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>So Smart Software
>
>For institutions, companies and associations
>Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
>Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
>Free plugins and tutorials on my website
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
>Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
>Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
>Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
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>subscription preferences:
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From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Mon Oct 17 16:15:05 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:15:05 -0700
Subject: Revolution back to HyperCard
In-Reply-To: <4353172D.90609@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
	<p06200702bf75fc9179bd@[10.0.1.2]>	<43505714.1090205@fourthworld.com>
	<p06200705bf78a826b17c@[10.0.1.2]> <4353172D.90609@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <p06200703bf79b1763ac2@[10.0.1.2]>

Hi Richard,

I appreciate your concern and your many good efforts on behalf of the 
product we all love.



Richard wrote:

>It seems you understood my question well in spite of my vaguery.  :)
>
>Rev is generally faster than HC with the exception of certain uses 
>of "find" (thanks to Atkinson's patented 'hint bits'), so I'd be 
>curious to read an analysis of why the two search solutions are so 
>very different.
>
>I haven't used SS before, and am not even sure if I still have HC 
>installed on this machine.  I don't use the Rev IDE either, but at 
>least I do have it around somewhere and could dig out the search 
>window.
>
>With SS, what does the result give you?  Does it produce a list of 
>found objects, or take you to them sequentially?


It gives them to you sequentially, and it opens the script window on 
the first hit. After that, you use the "find next" button in the 
search-and-replace script window to get subsequent hits. It finds the 
desired strings pretty quick, though Rev finds them faster.

>
>I'm pretty confident Rev can deliver a search solution that performs 
>roughly on par with HC overall, esp. if we're talking about just 
>searching scripts rather than fields, as I believe "hint bits" only 
>apply to field objects.


Well... I might not have been clear. Searching scripts in Rev is 
fine. Better than fine. Searching field text with Rev's "find" stack 
is the problem in Rev.

The absence of Atkinson's patented "hint bits" might be part of the 
problem with finding field text in Rev, but it's probably not the 
main problem.

A simple script that finds field text using the "find" command works 
fast enough in Rev. It's just Rev's native "find" stack that is way 
too slow.

e.g. the following script takes less than 1 second. Okay, it's a 
clunky script, but it works. Homie don't script elegant-like.

on mouseup
   go first
   put 1 into countVar1
   put 1 into countVar2
   repeat until CountVar2 < countVar1 or the shiftkey is down
     put the number of this card into countVar1
     find string "software"
     put the foundchunk & return after theVar
     put the number of this card into countVar2
   end repeat
   go first
     put theVar after cd field "temp"
end mouseup

This script takes a second or two, in Rev in the stack I used to test it.

The same task in Rev's "find" stack takes 15 to 20 seconds, searching 
the same stack.

It is offputting, I must say, that the Find stack is so very slow, at 
least when it comes to field text. It gets much, much worse with 
larger stacks, containing many fields per card, and many cards. In 
those stacks, Rev's simple find command still works great.

cheers,


Tim


>
>Maybe I can squeeze some time to sit down with those two scripts and 
>figure out where the time is being spent....
>
>--
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Managing Editor, revJournal
>  _______________________________________________________
>  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 17 16:17:55 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:17:55 -0700
Subject: Arrays and Lists
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bf79621d213f@[192.168.0.100]>
Message-ID: <BF795503.2F1AA%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

The short answer is that the operations you are doing simply return "" and
not an error message.  Run this and see if this makes sense to you

---------------------------- copy from here
--Array Load and Usage Example
--{note that I used two line break-continuations (\)  in the code}
--There were four variables standing at a bar waiting for a drink...
--oops wrong lesson notes...  here we go.. :-)

on mouseUp
  local myArray1
  local myArray2
  local myArrayX
  local myArrayY
  local myList
  
  --==Suggestion:  use less abstract example
  --declare variables if you wish (not necessary)
  local notebook
  local toDoList
  
  --add the values to the variable by specifying a key [""]
  
  ------working with variable notebook
  put "Test1" into notebook["recentTest"]
  put "Test2" into notebook["nextTest"]
  put "results from test 1 are good" into notebook["lastTestResult"]
  put "spend money" into notebook["actionToTake"]
  put "hire assistant" & cr & \
      "(prefer it not be my nephew)" into notebook["futurePlan"]
  
  ------working with variable toDoList
    put "make coffee" into toDoList["firstThing"]
  put "select donut" into toDoList["secondThing"]
  put "call bank about the financing for the investment."& \
      "  ->open new account" into toDoList["thirdThing"]
  put "make more coffee " into toDoList["priority1"]
  
  --now use the (variable *and* the key) to retrieve stored data
  
  answer notebook["actionToTake"]
  answer toDoList["priority1"]
  answer toDoList["thirdThing"]
  answer notebook["lastTestResult"]
  answer notebook["futurePlan"]
  
  --following returns empty since the toDoList has no "lastTestResult"
  answer toDoList["lastTestResult"]
  
  answer the keys of notebook
  answer the keys of toDoList
  
  
end mouseUp
-------------------- end copy       Array Load and Usage Example

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 10/17/05 7:18 AM, "David Burgun" <dburgun at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

> on mouseUp
> local myArray1
> local myArray2
> local myArrayX
> local myArrayY
> local myList
> 
> put "Test1" into myArray1["Array1"]
> put "Test2" into myArray2["Array2"]
> 
> put myArray1 into item 1 of myList
> put myArray2 into item 2 of myList
> 
> put item 1 of myList myArrayX
> put item 2 of myList into myArrayY
> end mouseUp




From gregory.lypny at videotron.ca  Mon Oct 17 16:23:05 2005
From: gregory.lypny at videotron.ca (Gregory Lypny)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:23:05 -0400
Subject: Table Fields
Message-ID: <64BD2E3A-6541-4022-AFD7-A228F5B68065@videotron.ca>

Hello Everyone,

     Where can I learn about Table Fields?  I've searched the online  
help in Topics, Dictionary, and Object, using a number of keywords  
but nothing comes up.

     Incidentally, the online help in the newest release for OS X  
seems unusually slow and prone to freezes.

     Regards,

         Greg


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Oct 17 16:34:59 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:34:59 -0500
Subject: Function to break apart a Long Name?
In-Reply-To: <a05210601bf796bf671ac@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <BF797523.2E1E1%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/17/05 10:00 AM, "David Burgun" <dburgun at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone know of a function that will extract name of the Control,
> Group, Card and Stack from a long name string?
> 
> e.g. I have a string of the form:
> 
> control "A" of group "B" of card "C" of stack "D"
> 
> And I would like to have:
> 
> local myControlName  = A
> local myGroupName = B
> local myCardName = C
> local myStackName = D

here you go: (1 line, watch for line wraps)

-- tControl is the long name of the control as you've shown above
-- adjust to suit

get matchText(tControl,"control \"(.*?)\" of group \"(.*?)\" of card
\"(.*?)\" of stack 
\"(.*?)\"",myControlName,myGroupName,myCardName,myStackName)


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Oct 17 16:38:01 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:38:01 +0200
Subject: Table Fields
In-Reply-To: <64BD2E3A-6541-4022-AFD7-A228F5B68065@videotron.ca>
References: <64BD2E3A-6541-4022-AFD7-A228F5B68065@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <90364830-D19E-489A-A09B-FEBF8769FDAC@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Greg,

At the moment, table fields do not work as we could expect it with Rev.
But many things can be done with them if you take care of some  
undocumented features.
You might be interested in the "How to Manage Table Fields" tutorial  
accessible through Tutorials Picker.
You will find Tutorials Picker on Rev Online - user: So Smart  
Software or on my website.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 17 oct. 05 ? 22:23, Gregory Lypny a ?crit :

> Hello Everyone,
>
>     Where can I learn about Table Fields?  I've searched the online  
> help in Topics, Dictionary, and Object, using a number of keywords  
> but nothing comes up.
>
>     Incidentally, the online help in the newest release for OS X  
> seems unusually slow and prone to freezes.
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Greg

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Oct 17 17:01:18 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:01:18 -0500
Subject: control layer in a grp
In-Reply-To: <6BC51EAD-69BB-4B3B-AD48-C067539F8822@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <BF797B4E.2E1E3%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/17/05 10:00 AM, "david bovill" <david at openpartnership.net> wrote:

> No sorry - don't think there is.
> 
> On 17 Oct 2005, at 09:41, Scott Morrow wrote:
> 
>> I'm wondering if there is an easier (faster) way to discover the
>> stacking number of a specific field within a group (the control's
>> stacking number just within that group) without using a repeat
>> structure to step through all the controls in that group, checking
>> each one to see if it is a match.

Well, actually there is, but it's a bit of a kludge -- if you're "in" the
group (i.e. the same as clicking "Edit Group" on the toolbar in Rev), you
can ask for the layer of a field and it will give you the stacking order for
that field in the group.

So you can:

1) Select the group
2) Go into "editbackground" mode
3) Get the layer of the field you're interested in
4) Exit "editbackground" mode

Like this:

select group "myGroup"
start editing group "myGroup"
put the layer of field "TestField" into tLayer
set the editBackground of the topStack to false
answer tLayer

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Oct 17 17:05:45 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:05:45 -0500
Subject: vAlign Images in lines of text
In-Reply-To: <BF790E81.38FFE%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <BF797C59.2E1E5%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/17/05 10:17 AM, "Todd Geist" <tg.lists at geistinteractive.com> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I used set imageSource to put a little Icon in a line of text.
> 
> What I get is both the Icon and the text aligned to the text base line
> 
> What I want is for the text to be centered on the Icon.
> 
> Is this possible?

Funny you should ask that, as I was just discussing this with Richard Gaskin
yesterday. 

The answer is "yes", you can use the little-known "textShift" property of
text to shift the image (or the text, your choice) above/below the baseline.

So supposing your icon is the first character of line 1 of a field, you can
do this:

  set the textShift of char 1 of field 1 to 3  -- go 3 pixels "down"

You can use negative numbers to shift stuff up. Play with it a bit to get
your bearings, but it can be a really useful feature.



Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From revolution at jaedworks.com  Mon Oct 17 17:07:09 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:07:09 -0700
Subject: Function to break apart a Long Name?
In-Reply-To: <a05210601bf796bf671ac@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <20051017044130.2463C825299@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230900bf7959142ba9@[69.19.229.124]>
	<a05210601bf796bf671ac@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <p06210231bf79c0fd2457@[66.93.39.98]>

At 4:00 PM +0100 10/17/2005, David Burgun wrote:
>Does anyone know of a function that will extract name of the 
>Control, Group, Card and Stack from a long name string?
>
>e.g. I have a string of the form:
>
>control "A" of group "B" of card "C" of stack "D"
>
>And I would like to have:
>
>local myControlName  = A
>local myGroupName = B
>local myCardName = C
>local myStackName = D

I'd use the short name in conjunction with the owner for this:

   -- "myControl" is control "A" of group "B" of card "C" of stack "D"
   put the short name of myControl into myControlName
   put the short name of the owner of myControl into myGroupName
   put the short name of the owner of the owner of myControl into myCardName
   put the short name of the owner of the owner of the owner of 
myControl into myStackName
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Mon Oct 17 17:08:45 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:08:45 -0400
Subject: spacebar messes up focus?
In-Reply-To: <4353DF28.3070302@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <09943F58-F73C-4A75-87CC-9223C4E151D4@conncoll.edu>
	<43532B84.6080005@hyperactivesw.com>
	<F53762D2-02C8-42F7-905B-A9EAC43C0CA6@conncoll.edu>
	<4353DF28.3070302@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <CCB66909-98BF-4B5F-96CB-8CB397B416AA@conncoll.edu>


On Oct 17, 2005, at 1:28 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Also, the behavior doesn't seem to occur unless you have a modal  
> stack frontmost. If you can change your frontmost stack to modeless  
> during debugging, you should be able to type as usual.
>

It turns out that the same happens when my dialog box is modeless.  
Maybe not all the time, I'm not sure. But while I'm typing in one of  
the dlg's text fields, I'm getting the same loss-of-focus-on-spacebar.

Charles Hartman



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Oct 17 17:12:30 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:12:30 -0700
Subject: Ann: uRIPides
Message-ID: <2120208888.20051017141230@ahsoftware.net>

All-

Well, there hasn't been any recent activity on the RIP circuit, so I
threw together a RIP property editor plugin as a somewhat more complex
version of the simple one that Richard Gaskin put together a while
back. You can edit the uRIP properties of any object with this: stack,
card, or control and also create updateInfoURL files ready to be
uploaded to a web location.

In addition, this includes what I believe are the first real-world
applications of RIP properties: a button to allow for update checking
(and a button to copy this to the topStack); and a button to permit
creation of new mainStacks with some RIP properties already filled in
and ready for editing.

revOnline under my user space (mwieder) and in the RIP files area on
yahoo ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/revInterop/ ).

Of course, mostly it was just an excuse to use Yet Another Pun.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Mon Oct 17 16:45:12 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:45:12 -0400
Subject: Table Fields
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744646@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

Also, if you want a table to use as a user-interface, rather than for mass data storage, I can send you a pseudo-table object that I have created.

It is a group with fields, rather than a single field. This allows for all sorts of formatting and programming options. It allows the user to insert columns and rows, and drag them to different locations, and other functionalities we expect with tables.

It's a real memory hog though - so I would not use it for storing thousands of pieces of data.

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Eric Chatonet
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 4:38 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Table Fields

Hi Greg,

At the moment, table fields do not work as we could expect it with Rev.
But many things can be done with them if you take care of some  
undocumented features.
You might be interested in the "How to Manage Table Fields" tutorial  
accessible through Tutorials Picker.
You will find Tutorials Picker on Rev Online - user: So Smart  
Software or on my website.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 17 oct. 05 ? 22:23, Gregory Lypny a ?crit :

> Hello Everyone,
>
>     Where can I learn about Table Fields?  I've searched the online  
> help in Topics, Dictionary, and Object, using a number of keywords  
> but nothing comes up.
>
>     Incidentally, the online help in the newest release for OS X  
> seems unusually slow and prone to freezes.
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Greg

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------

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use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 17:28:33 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:28:33 +1000
Subject: Showing a Windows file
Message-ID: <f99b52860510171428i7f950661y29cfd09eb7f9f0a0@mail.gmail.com>

As you would have gathered by now, I don't know much about Windows,
but I have the following handler which shows a given file:

on showFileWin pFile
    replace "/" with "\" in pFile
    set the hideConsoleWindows to true
    get shell("explorer /select, "& quote & pFile & quote)
end showFileWin

This works fine (at least in XP) but only if the parent folder is not
already open. If the folder's window is closed, this script opens it
and selects the relevant file.

If the folder's window is already open, the script brings it to the
front, but does NOT select the new file. The file selected before
remains selected.

Does anyone know of any fix for this?

TIA,
Sarah


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Oct 17 17:37:20 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:37:20 -0700
Subject: FORTH and Hypercard
In-Reply-To: <4353E0D2.5060901@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>	<9D636A6B-816C-474D-8A05-6DFC00281E8B@writeme.com>	<12727908039.20051016160112@ahsoftware.net>	<A866E244-3D54-42BC-B1BB-3FDB5EF501D4@writeme.com>	<p06230900bf78b176ada2@[192.168.1.101]>	<43532AE3.1020408@hyperactivesw.com>	<8C7A147E73D95D5-E60-3B3@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com>
	<4353E0D2.5060901@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <43541990.4070501@fourthworld.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:
> simplsol at aol.com wrote:
> 
>> Jacque,
>> I wonder if Scott would come to the same conclusion today.
>>  On modern computers messages can transverse the entire path in 
>> nanoseconds.
>  
> True, though knowing Scott Raney he wouldn't change it even now. 
> However, the reason I changed my mind about the theoretical problem was 
> that I couldn't think of any good reasons why I needed the behavior.

Yeah, I got all up in Scott's face over that once, insisting it was 
absolutely necessary to support.  He asked me for a test case where no 
alternative was available to accomplish a given goal, and darnit I never 
did come up with one.

:)

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From contact at setec-multimedia.fr  Mon Oct 17 18:06:48 2005
From: contact at setec-multimedia.fr (Setec Multimedia)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:06:48 +0200
Subject: POP with REV ?
Message-ID: <ca710bec2d933b808c49d9113c1fdaa4@setec-multimedia.fr>

Hello,

I'm trying to find a way to check incoming mails with revolution (a 
simple mail notifyier program in fact).

Unfortunably the Shao Sean pop3 library doesn't seem to handle the pop 
(and not pop3) protocol.
Is there any other library available ? Or any way to do it from scratch 
?
POP and SMTP protocols should realy be supported and implemented by 
Runrev.

Thanks for your help,

Belgarion



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct 17 18:11:00 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:11:00 -0500
Subject: spacebar messes up focus?
In-Reply-To: <CCB66909-98BF-4B5F-96CB-8CB397B416AA@conncoll.edu>
References: <09943F58-F73C-4A75-87CC-9223C4E151D4@conncoll.edu>
	<43532B84.6080005@hyperactivesw.com>
	<F53762D2-02C8-42F7-905B-A9EAC43C0CA6@conncoll.edu>
	<4353DF28.3070302@hyperactivesw.com>
	<CCB66909-98BF-4B5F-96CB-8CB397B416AA@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <43542174.2060104@hyperactivesw.com>

Charles Hartman wrote:
 >
 > On Oct 17, 2005, at 1:28 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
 >
 >> Also, the behavior doesn't seem to occur unless you have a modal
 >> stack frontmost. If you can change your frontmost stack to modeless
 >> during debugging, you should be able to type as usual.
 >>
 >
 > It turns out that the same happens when my dialog box is modeless.
 > Maybe not all the time, I'm not sure. But while I'm typing in one of
 > the dlg's text fields, I'm getting the same loss-of-focus-on-spacebar.

I can't reproduce it here (but I didn't try too hard.) Do you have a 
keydown handler somewhere, or a rawKeyDown handler?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Mon Oct 17 18:19:56 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:19:56 -0400
Subject: spacebar messes up focus?
In-Reply-To: <43542174.2060104@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <09943F58-F73C-4A75-87CC-9223C4E151D4@conncoll.edu>
	<43532B84.6080005@hyperactivesw.com>
	<F53762D2-02C8-42F7-905B-A9EAC43C0CA6@conncoll.edu>
	<4353DF28.3070302@hyperactivesw.com>
	<CCB66909-98BF-4B5F-96CB-8CB397B416AA@conncoll.edu>
	<43542174.2060104@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <C97FE9FF-2A55-45BD-9AB9-FF80743E177D@conncoll.edu>


On Oct 17, 2005, at 6:11 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Charles Hartman wrote:
> >
> > On Oct 17, 2005, at 1:28 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> >
> >> Also, the behavior doesn't seem to occur unless you have a modal
> >> stack frontmost. If you can change your frontmost stack to modeless
> >> during debugging, you should be able to type as usual.
> >>
> >
> > It turns out that the same happens when my dialog box is modeless.
> > Maybe not all the time, I'm not sure. But while I'm typing in one of
> > the dlg's text fields, I'm getting the same loss-of-focus-on- 
> spacebar.
>
> I can't reproduce it here (but I didn't try too hard.) Do you have  
> a keydown handler somewhere, or a rawKeyDown handler?

No, I don't. And I can't reproduce it either. It has come and gone  
two or three times; no clue about the circumstances. I hate that.

Charles Hartman


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Oct 17 18:25:06 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:25:06 -0700
Subject: FORTH and Hypercard
In-Reply-To: <43541990.4070501@fourthworld.com>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>
	<9D636A6B-816C-474D-8A05-6DFC00281E8B@writeme.com>
	<12727908039.20051016160112@ahsoftware.net>
	<A866E244-3D54-42BC-B1BB-3FDB5EF501D4@writeme.com>
	<p06230900bf78b176ada2@[192.168.1.101]>
	<43532AE3.1020408@hyperactivesw.com>
	<8C7A147E73D95D5-E60-3B3@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com>
	<4353E0D2.5060901@hyperactivesw.com> <43541990.4070501@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <15524565553.20051017152506@ahsoftware.net>

Richard-

Monday, October 17, 2005, 2:37:20 PM, you wrote:

> Yeah, I got all up in Scott's face over that once, insisting it was
> absolutely necessary to support.  He asked me for a test case where no
> alternative was available to accomplish a given goal, and darnit I never
> did come up with one.

There are cases where I'd really *like* to have the facility, but none
that I can think of that I can't work around.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mlange at lexicall.org  Mon Oct 17 18:22:26 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:22:26 +0100
Subject: revDocWikis
Message-ID: <6D5CBA09-7B23-46A1-8610-374DBCA74582@lexicall.org>

Hi David,


>> Anybody to keep an eye on my wiki during that time
>>
>
> Sure I know TikiWiki pretty well by now - can you give me admin  
> access so i can turn off those smileys :)
>

Okay... I will contact you privately.... The only issue is the  
shoutbox that gets spammed regularly. I do outcast the domain of the  
spammer but new ones come... but for this, I only need to desactivate  
the shoutbox.  Smileys in my wiki... where? :-/ ;-)


>>> I did find this http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki- 
>>> index.php?page=SoftwareRevolution, but felt that it wasn't quite  
>>> what I was looking for.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> In what sense?
>>
>> These page are meant to serve exactly the same purpose  you propose.
>> http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php? 
>> page=RevolutionSnippetTips
>> http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php? 
>> page=ProgrammingXtalk
>> http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php? 
>> page=TutorialsTeachers
>>
>> I agree, this is a bit burried down, there is too much content on  
>> this wiki...
>>
>
> Hmmm... three TikiWiki sites out there, and another wiki. Is it  
> really necessary to set up another site - setting up is easy - 
> maintenance another thing. Another example of the "revolutionary  
> approach" to collaboration perhaps :) Could we not all work on the  
> same wiki - said hopefully :)
>

It was inappropriate for me to suggest so.... but yes, I did set up  
my wiki in this spirit (and at the time this was justified as no  
other wiki existed yet). I got a few valuable contributions... but  
more wouldn't hurt.

Really, I don't mind moving the content of my wiki somewhere more  
"neutral" (like the wikibook). Transfer is quite easy. Some PHP  
function for automatic code coloring may help as well (is on the to  
do list, but not really on top).

Marielle
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage:  http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Lexicall: http://lexicall.org
Revolution-education: http://revolution.lexicall.org




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Oct 17 18:33:47 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:33:47 -0700
Subject: FORTH and Hypercard
In-Reply-To: <4353E0D2.5060901@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>
	<9D636A6B-816C-474D-8A05-6DFC00281E8B@writeme.com>
	<12727908039.20051016160112@ahsoftware.net>
	<A866E244-3D54-42BC-B1BB-3FDB5EF501D4@writeme.com>
	<p06230900bf78b176ada2@[192.168.1.101]>
	<43532AE3.1020408@hyperactivesw.com>
	<8C7A147E73D95D5-E60-3B3@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com>
	<4353E0D2.5060901@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <12125086192.20051017153347@ahsoftware.net>

Jacque-

Monday, October 17, 2005, 10:35:14 AM, you wrote:

> True, though knowing Scott Raney he wouldn't change it even now.

There shouldn't really be much of a speed difference - the way this is
usually handled is you create a hash table with the overloaded
functions. If there's a match in the hash table then you process it
locally, otherwise you move right on to the builtins. So the only hit
you take is in a quick lookup in the hash table. It's a direct lookup,
it's either there or it isn't, and it's compiled and optimized. Should
actually take less overhead than a scripted function call.

I sense an inherent incompatibility between the folks who want more
speed out of the basic engine calls (arrays and such) and the folks
who want the flexibility of overloading the builtin functions. I fall
more in the latter category, but not enough to want things to change
(and possibly break existing behavior).

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From userev at canelasoftware.com  Mon Oct 17 18:32:30 2005
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:32:30 -0700
Subject: ANN: Constellation Script & Property Editor 1.0.0 Released
In-Reply-To: <F6F86350-0045-4FA9-945D-54BEED9F3988@daniels-mara.com>
References: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>	<p06200702bf75fc9179bd@[10.0.1.2]>
	<43505714.1090205@fourthworld.com>
	<p06200705bf78a826b17c@[10.0.1.2]> <4353172D.90609@fourthworld.com>
	<F6F86350-0045-4FA9-945D-54BEED9F3988@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <2619B33D-46C6-42A9-AA21-6E065E1BE392@canelasoftware.com>


On Oct 16, 2005, at 8:55 PM, Jerry Daniels wrote:

> It is my pleasure to inform you that the 1.0.0 version of  
> Constellation has just been released

I have been using it now for just a few days and had to buy a copy  
for a friend.  It is truly amazing to work with.  I feel my  
productivity increase on the same level as the beauty of transcript.   
I think it is a must have for everyone that uses Rev on a daily  
basis.  Get the other gadgets while you are there because it brings  
out the extra productivity in Constellation.  I really like  
"inspection gadget" and "object gadget".  Tie those together with the  
free "gadget bar" and you have a totally useful IDE for Rev!

Congrats Jerry!  I am only sorry that I did not adopt the tools earlier.


Mark Talluto
-- 
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From smithsm at samuelsmith.org  Mon Oct 17 18:57:34 2005
From: smithsm at samuelsmith.org (Samuel M. Smith)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:57:34 -0600
Subject: Open Process on OSX
Message-ID: <F41D8495-7EDC-46F6-91D0-108F87E0F902@samuelsmith.org>

I would like to open a unix process on OS X  that I can read and  
write to. Documentation
is confusing too me because is says to use shell func instead but  
shell func doesn't appear to have support for
keeping a process open for reading and writing.

Does anyone have any experience with opening processes/shell on OS X  
that could provide a little more light
on how this works?

 From RunRev Docs
"
Note:  On OS X systems, you can use the open process command to start  
up an application, but not a Unix process. To work with a Unix  
process, use the shell func instead.

Changes to Transcript:
In versions before 1.1.1, when you quit the application, any  
processes that had been opened with the neither form were quit  
automatically on Windows systems.

Support for using the open process command on OS X systems was added  
in version 2.0.
"



**********************************************************************
Samuel M. Smith Ph.D.
2966 Fort Hill Road
Eagle Mountain, Utah 84043
801-768-2768 voice
801-768-2769 fax
**********************************************************************
"The greatest source of failure and unhappiness in the world is
giving up what we want most for what we want at the moment"
**********************************************************************



From tjframe at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 19:00:10 2005
From: tjframe at gmail.com (TJ Frame)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:00:10 -0700
Subject: Is there a Rev CopyBits equivalent?
Message-ID: <7348a9e80510171600o795b73ccl5449fc66741ffc95@mail.gmail.com>

Been doing some game related coding recently and I'm curious to know if
there is a practical way to perform a blit procedure in rev
simialr to that old quickdraw cornerstone : CopyBits
 Say for example you have 2 windows, the main screen window and an invisible
"scratch" window. I would like to be able to write:
 CopyBits the pixMapID of stack "scratchWin", the pixMapID of stack
"mainWin", copyRect, destRect,"srcopy", the short id of image "maskImage"
 Would an external be need for such a thing? If so, would the callback
overhead nullify any speed advantage of using an external to the point where
its not really practical to use?
 - TJ


From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Oct 17 19:15:36 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:15:36 -0700
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
Message-ID: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>

A couple of you were kind enough to point out that in my exuberant  
endorsement of Jerry Daniels' wonderful Constellation Rev IDE, I came  
off sounding a bit like the built-in, out-of-the-box Rev IDE was a  
piece of crap. Let me set the record straight. It's wonderful. It has  
flaws and rough edges and quirks that sometimes confuse newbies and  
even oldies. But it's still really a great product.

It's just that Constellation learned from what the Rev IDE designers  
did one way and created a new way that I personally find more usable  
and seamless.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Oct 17 19:40:00 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:40:00 +0100
Subject: POP with REV ?
In-Reply-To: <ca710bec2d933b808c49d9113c1fdaa4@setec-multimedia.fr>
References: <ca710bec2d933b808c49d9113c1fdaa4@setec-multimedia.fr>
Message-ID: <43543650.3020809@tweedly.net>

Setec Multimedia wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm trying to find a way to check incoming mails with revolution (a 
> simple mail notifyier program in fact).
>
> Unfortunably the Shao Sean pop3 library doesn't seem to handle the pop 
> (and not pop3) protocol.

True - but POP3's been out for 17 years now. I didn't think *anyone* 
still used earlier versions.

(btw - POP2 has been out for over 20 years, the original POP was short 
lived, came out in '84 and has been officially obsolete since Feb '85)

> Is there any other library available ? Or any way to do it from scratch ?
> POP and SMTP protocols should realy be supported and implemented by 
> Runrev.
>
Many people say (loosely) that they use the POP protocol when they 
really mean POP3. As far as I can tell, none of the major mail readers 
around today support anything earlier than POP3.

Are you *really* sure it's not POP3 that you actually need ?

For POP3 / SMTP you have a choice of Shao Sean's library or Sarah 
Reichelt's (available from http://www.troz.net/Rev/index.html ).

I understand why you'd initially hope for direct support within Rev - 
but given the availability of two excellent Open Source, well supported 
alternatives, I don't think it's anything to be concerned about; if 
anything, I prefer having the Open Source versions, since it let me 
build in a couple of personal variations to the library when I used it.


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/2005



From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Mon Oct 17 20:09:31 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:09:31 -0700
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <780C1F7C-276A-4B45-9239-61340D7B7661@openpartnership.net>
References: <C42F18AE-550C-439E-B94C-8DCACEBF10AB@lexicall.org>
	<780C1F7C-276A-4B45-9239-61340D7B7661@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <p06200701bf79e566670e@[10.0.1.2]>

It suddenly occurs to me that the docWiki issue goes far beyond 
Revolution, though it's possible that Rev could be the first software 
company to take full advantage of the opportunity. As others have 
mentioned, Rev is a great platform for a comprehensive and 
frequently-upgradeable help system.

For instance...

The help files on my OS 10.3.9 Macintosh are okay, compared to 
previous incarnations of the Macintosh, and compared to the help 
files on Windows XP, frinstance. Compared to what the Macintosh 
onboard docs *could* be, given lots of generous, loyal, knowledgeable 
users, a very small team of editors, a wiki, and a few tech tricks, 
they are a disgraceful disgrace!

Why should I have to spend precious minutes--or hours--hunting on the 
Apple support site for a technical bulletin that I hope will explain 
why my modem won't send faxes, and how to make it work? If other 
users have had the same problem, and solved it, one of them would 
donate the needed information to the Macintosh docWiki, in clear 
English, plus maybe a link to the technical bulletin.

The editors could check it for accuracy, add some "related links" 
index it and cross-reference it, release it to their public docWiki, 
and at the same time, release it to the next generation of indexed, 
cross-referenced help docs, ready for download, or update, or 
whatever. The topics could -- and maybe should -- be searchable in 
several different ways -- filter, search-for, logic-tree, FAQs by 
topic and subtopic, etc. Maybe boolean, too.

Such docs could -- and maybe should -- be updated frequently, maybe 
every day, and eligible for automatic updating, should the user 
desire it.

In the same way, docWiki users could suggest clearer wording on 
topics already in use, novice, intermediate, and expert versions of 
the same topic, terse or verbose versions, and so on. Some topics 
would be specific to one machine model, OS version, or software 
version. Users of one machine, or one software version, ideally, 
could download only the information necessary for the software, the 
machine and the OS they actually use, though public docWikis would 
remain available for other versions, other machines, and so on.

The examples go on forever. Why should the same weary volunteer 
experts -- on newsgroups and help boards -- answer the same 200 or 
300 questions over and over and over again? For such questions, all 
that is needed would be a link to the right page on the wiki or the 
right page in the onboard help documentation. That would leave the 
volunteer gurus free to field the relatively few new, significant 
questions. Once solved, those issues would also go to the docWiki. 
And so on.

Onboard help files could and should be integrated in such a way that 
help documentation from various sources could be merged for indexing 
and retrieval-- yet tracked separately, so they could be deleted or 
updated separately, if needed. Like if I upgrade to a newer version 
of PageSpinner, for instance, the onboard docs for PageSpinner would 
be refreshed at the same time, without disrupting anything else.

Macintosh already does something along these lines. But the 
documentation is so thin... Any time I have a slightly unusual or 
complex issue, I can be pretty certain the answer I need will *not* 
be in the onboard help docs.

I'm not talking about just Apple or Windows. Every application, 
programming language, specific machine, etc., would all benefit from 
this approach. The thing that makes me crazy about this, when I think 
about it, is that it just wouldn't be very difficult, or expensive, 
for any manufacturer or developer to participate.

Some kind of open standard for onboard and/or online help would be 
very helpful, of course. God knows we don't want Bill Gates to choose 
the standard!

When I think about it this way, Rev is already doing a very good job 
of indexing its onboard documentation, with plenty of hyperlinks, 
"see also" links, scripting examples, and so on. Better than any 
other application I use. (I don't know about other development 
environments. Rev is the only one I use.)

All that's missing -- for Rev -- is more of same, plus a wiki, for 
continuous improvement and expansion, plus an editorial team, plus 
frequent downloadable updates.

Just a thought. A minor inspiration. I dunno -- maybe stupid -- maybe 
already thought of, or on the way. I'm not a computer professional.

Cheers,


Tim

>On 17 Oct 2005, at 12:45, Marielle Lange wrote:
>
>>Anybody to keep an eye on my wiki during that time
>
>Sure I know TikiWiki pretty well by now - can you give me admin 
>access so i can turn off those smileys :)
>
>>>I did find this 
>>>http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=SoftwareRevolution, 
>>>but felt that it wasn't quite what I was looking for.
>>
>>In what sense?
>>
>>These page are meant to serve exactly the same purpose  you propose.
>>http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=RevolutionSnippetTips
>>http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=ProgrammingXtalk
>>http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=TutorialsTeachers
>>
>>I agree, this is a bit burried down, there is too much content on 
>>this wiki...
>>
>>>So, I've set up a wiki at http://revdocwiki.wikispaces.org/ .
>
>Hmmm... three TikiWiki sites out there, and another wiki. Is it 
>really necessary to set up another site - setting up is easy 
>-maintenance another thing. Another example of the "revolutionary 
>approach" to collaboration perhaps :) Could we not all work on the 
>same wiki - said hopefully :)
>
>NB - having some regular crashes with XML parsing in 2.6.1. For 
>instance I can parse TikiWiki pages from www.openpartnership.net, 
>but testing on 
>http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=RevolutionSnippetTips 
>appears to crash Rev.
>
>Has anything changed?
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 17 21:06:30 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:06:30 -0700
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <p06200701bf79e566670e@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <BF7998A6.2F1DD%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Of course, who decides what qualifies as good/excellent content..  Expert
level, moderate, beginner, one example, two, five, .. fastest algorithm,
easiest to write..  how to put pieces together to solve scenarios.. catalog
the exceptions and bugs.. even to build a rudimentary decision tree for
someone to follow to build an app..

All would be a very large task for several individuals.  Add to the mix that
the most accomplished contributors are advanced because they do this for a
living which means they have no time for their own documentation of
projects, let alone building a knowledge base.

In our little corner of the programming universe, I think that most anyone
only has time to skim, collect some valuable tidbits, contribute answers as
time and mood permit, then go on with our lives.

As they say, "managing programmers is like herding cats", and that is the
way it should be.  I wish you good luck getting support.  If I decided to
follow this path and contribute, my wife would kill me.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 10/17/05 5:09 PM, "Timothy Miller" <gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com>
wrote:

> It suddenly occurs to me that the docWiki issue goes far beyond
> Revolution, though it's possible that Rev could be the first software
> company to take full advantage of the opportunity. As others have
> mentioned, Rev is a great platform for a comprehensive and
> frequently-upgradeable help system.
> 
> For instance...
> 
> The help files on my OS 10.3.9 Macintosh are okay, compared to
> previous incarnations of the Macintosh, and compared to the help
> files on Windows XP, frinstance. Compared to what the Macintosh
> onboard docs *could* be, given lots of generous, loyal, knowledgeable
> users, a very small team of editors, a wiki, and a few tech tricks,
> they are a disgraceful disgrace!
> 
> Why should I have to spend precious minutes--or hours--hunting on the
> Apple support site for a technical bulletin that I hope will explain
> why my modem won't send faxes, and how to make it work? If other
> users have had the same problem, and solved it, one of them would
> donate the needed information to the Macintosh docWiki, in clear
> English, plus maybe a link to the technical bulletin.
> 
> The editors could check it for accuracy, add some "related links"
> index it and cross-reference it, release it to their public docWiki,
> and at the same time, release it to the next generation of indexed,
> cross-referenced help docs, ready for download, or update, or
> whatever. The topics could -- and maybe should -- be searchable in
> several different ways -- filter, search-for, logic-tree, FAQs by
> topic and subtopic, etc. Maybe boolean, too.
> 
> Such docs could -- and maybe should -- be updated frequently, maybe
> every day, and eligible for automatic updating, should the user
> desire it.
> 
> In the same way, docWiki users could suggest clearer wording on
> topics already in use, novice, intermediate, and expert versions of
> the same topic, terse or verbose versions, and so on. Some topics
> would be specific to one machine model, OS version, or software
> version. Users of one machine, or one software version, ideally,
> could download only the information necessary for the software, the
> machine and the OS they actually use, though public docWikis would
> remain available for other versions, other machines, and so on.
> 
> The examples go on forever. Why should the same weary volunteer
> experts -- on newsgroups and help boards -- answer the same 200 or
> 300 questions over and over and over again? For such questions, all
> that is needed would be a link to the right page on the wiki or the
> right page in the onboard help documentation. That would leave the
> volunteer gurus free to field the relatively few new, significant
> questions. Once solved, those issues would also go to the docWiki.
> And so on.
> 
> Onboard help files could and should be integrated in such a way that
> help documentation from various sources could be merged for indexing
> and retrieval-- yet tracked separately, so they could be deleted or
> updated separately, if needed. Like if I upgrade to a newer version
> of PageSpinner, for instance, the onboard docs for PageSpinner would
> be refreshed at the same time, without disrupting anything else.
> 
> Macintosh already does something along these lines. But the
> documentation is so thin... Any time I have a slightly unusual or
> complex issue, I can be pretty certain the answer I need will *not*
> be in the onboard help docs.
> 
> I'm not talking about just Apple or Windows. Every application,
> programming language, specific machine, etc., would all benefit from
> this approach. The thing that makes me crazy about this, when I think
> about it, is that it just wouldn't be very difficult, or expensive,
> for any manufacturer or developer to participate.
> 
> Some kind of open standard for onboard and/or online help would be
> very helpful, of course. God knows we don't want Bill Gates to choose
> the standard!
> 
> When I think about it this way, Rev is already doing a very good job
> of indexing its onboard documentation, with plenty of hyperlinks,
> "see also" links, scripting examples, and so on. Better than any
> other application I use. (I don't know about other development
> environments. Rev is the only one I use.)
> 
> All that's missing -- for Rev -- is more of same, plus a wiki, for
> continuous improvement and expansion, plus an editorial team, plus
> frequent downloadable updates.
> 
> Just a thought. A minor inspiration. I dunno -- maybe stupid -- maybe
> already thought of, or on the way. I'm not a computer professional.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> Tim
> 
>> On 17 Oct 2005, at 12:45, Marielle Lange wrote:
>> 
>>> Anybody to keep an eye on my wiki during that time
>> 
>> Sure I know TikiWiki pretty well by now - can you give me admin
>> access so i can turn off those smileys :)
>> 
>>>> I did find this
>>>> http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=SoftwareRevolution,
>>>> but felt that it wasn't quite what I was looking for.
>>> 
>>> In what sense?
>>> 
>>> These page are meant to serve exactly the same purpose  you propose.
>>> 
http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=RevolutionSnippetTip>>>
s
>>> http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=ProgrammingXtalk
>>> http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=TutorialsTeachers
>>> 
>>> I agree, this is a bit burried down, there is too much content on
>>> this wiki...
>>> 
>>>> So, I've set up a wiki at http://revdocwiki.wikispaces.org/ .
>> 
>> Hmmm... three TikiWiki sites out there, and another wiki. Is it
>> really necessary to set up another site - setting up is easy
>> -maintenance another thing. Another example of the "revolutionary
>> approach" to collaboration perhaps :) Could we not all work on the
>> same wiki - said hopefully :)
>> 
>> NB - having some regular crashes with XML parsing in 2.6.1. For
>> instance I can parse TikiWiki pages from www.openpartnership.net,
>> but testing on 
>> http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=RevolutionSnippetTips
>> appears to crash Rev.
>> 
>> Has anything changed?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From simplsol at aol.com  Mon Oct 17 21:11:06 2005
From: simplsol at aol.com (simplsol at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:11:06 -0400
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <8C7A197F39F765D-109C-1BA1@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com>

Dan,
  I, for one, think you are being way too kind to the Rev IDE. The 
debugger opens at random sizes. Buttons and bits of buttons float 
around the script editor. Opening the Variable Watcher opens the Object 
Inspector (on top of the VW window on my system). The Variable Watcher 
doesn't watch variables reliably (the clickLine is a particular problem 
in my work). Hard to believe a Version 2.x product could have so many 
basic "flaws and rough edges and quirks".
 Go Jerry, go!
 Paul Looney

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com>
 To: Revolution List <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
 Sent: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:15:36 -0700
 Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck

  A couple of you were kind enough to point out that in my exuberant 
endorsement of Jerry Daniels' wonderful Constellation Rev IDE, I came 
off sounding a bit like the built-in, out-of-the-box Rev IDE was a 
piece of crap. Let me set the record straight. It's wonderful. It has 
flaws and rough edges and quirks that sometimes confuse newbies and 
even oldies. But it's still really a great product.?
 ?
  It's just that Constellation learned from what the Rev IDE designers 
did one way and created a new way that I personally find more usable 
and seamless.?
 ?
 ?
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~?
 Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author?
 http://www.shafermedia.com?
 Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"?
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html?
 ?
 _______________________________________________?
 use-revolution mailing list?
 use-revolution at lists.runrev.com?
  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:?
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution?

  


From see3d at writeme.com  Mon Oct 17 21:23:20 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:23:20 -0400
Subject: ANN: Constellation Script & Property Editor 1.0.0 Released
In-Reply-To: <F6F86350-0045-4FA9-945D-54BEED9F3988@daniels-mara.com>
References: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
	<p06200702bf75fc9179bd@[10.0.1.2]> <43505714.1090205@fourthworld.com>
	<p06200705bf78a826b17c@[10.0.1.2]> <4353172D.90609@fourthworld.com>
	<F6F86350-0045-4FA9-945D-54BEED9F3988@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <DCD77F77-9114-4BF8-A69B-6632F773BC9F@writeme.com>

Congratulations on the Release of Constellation 1.0 Jerry!

Testimonial:
I have used this product during the public pre-release phase as the  
face of Transcript.  I have been impressed with Jerry's dedication to  
fixing bugs and adding suggested features --sometimes within hours of  
the report.  That's customer service!

I spend 99% of my programming time in the Constellation script  
editor.  I like it a lot, and it keeps getting better.  I am not a  
professional programmer --I only use DreamCard at this point.   
However, I have found Jerry's Gadget Suite to be a real help while  
programming in Revolution.

I am glad I got involved early and I anticipate a growing delight  
with each new future release.

Thanks and keep up the good work Jerry!

Dennis Brown

On Oct 16, 2005, at 11:55 PM, Jerry Daniels wrote:

> Colleagues and Friends...
>
> - 31,299 lines of code
> - 1,099 handlers
> - 357 tested versions
> - a script & property editor with tabbed browsing in one window
> - 49 preferences
>
> It is my pleasure to inform you that the 1.0.0 version of  
> Constellation has just been released and is available for purchase  
> at this URL:
>
>     http://daniels-mara.com/products


From jspencer78 at mac.com  Mon Oct 17 21:46:45 2005
From: jspencer78 at mac.com (James Spencer)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:46:45 -0500
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <8C7A197F39F765D-109C-1BA1@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>
	<8C7A197F39F765D-109C-1BA1@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <E38176BF-8A9A-4599-B4F0-E0B62F37603B@mac.com>


On Oct 17, 2005, at 8:11 PM, simplsol at aol.com wrote:

> Dan,
>  I, for one, think you are being way too kind to the Rev IDE. The  
> debugger opens at random sizes. Buttons and bits of buttons float  
> around the script editor. Opening the Variable Watcher opens the  
> Object Inspector (on top of the VW window on my system). The  
> Variable Watcher doesn't watch variables reliably (the clickLine is  
> a particular problem in my work). Hard to believe a Version 2.x  
> product could have so many basic "flaws and rough edges and quirks".
> Go Jerry, go!
> Paul Looney

I disagree.  We are not at version 2.x, we are 2.6.1.  At 2.1 your  
comment was valid but in its current incarnation, I find the IDE, at  
least the OS X IDE, to be a solid useable product.  It is not perfect  
but it's "close enough for government work."  The fact is that Rev is  
an incredibly complicated product and perfection is not to be  
expected.  I'm always astounded at how well it works.

That having been said, one of the really, really cool things about  
Rev is that the IDE is infinitely extendable and modifiable: if its  
work flow bugs you, then change it.  In this regard, I completely  
agree with Dan's comments.  As good as the standard IDE is, for me  
Constellation is a great, great tool, one that for my purposes really  
enhances Rev and makes me just want to write applications and lets me  
do so faster.  This environment, enhanced with Constellation and its  
related tools, is simply a blast and I think I'll go write some code.

Spence

James P. Spencer
Rochester, MN

jspencer78 at mac.com

"Badges??  We don't need no stinkin badges!"



From shaosean at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 17 22:42:48 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:42:48 -0400
Subject: POP with REV ?
Message-ID: <BAY105-F2322AAB8CEA533C7DAF24FC3710@phx.gbl>

>I understand why you'd initially hope for direct support within Rev - but 
>given the availability of two excellent Open Source, well supported 
>alternatives, I don't think it's anything to be concerned about; if 
>anything, I prefer having the Open Source versions, since it let me build 
>in a couple of personal variations to the library when I used it.

I'd like to point out something in regards to libPop3 (as well as all the 
other libraries I've written to date) - they are in the "Public Domain" and 
not "Open Source" I do not like the restrictions and licensing needed for 
"Open Source".

I don't know what the licensing for Sarah's library is, but I'm sure she has 
it marked on her website or in the download.

_________________________________________________________________
Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/



From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Oct 17 22:47:20 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:47:20 -0400
Subject: ANN: Constellation Script & Property Editor 1.0.0 Released
In-Reply-To: <2619B33D-46C6-42A9-AA21-6E065E1BE392@canelasoftware.com>
References: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>	<p06200702bf75fc9179bd@[10.0.1.2]>
	<43505714.1090205@fourthworld.com>
	<p06200705bf78a826b17c@[10.0.1.2]> <4353172D.90609@fourthworld.com>
	<F6F86350-0045-4FA9-945D-54BEED9F3988@daniels-mara.com>
	<2619B33D-46C6-42A9-AA21-6E065E1BE392@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <b2ee2642e246d512a6910c38c810f7ec@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 17, 2005, at 6:32 PM, Mark Talluto wrote:

>  I think it is a must have for everyone that uses Rev on a daily 
> basis.  Get the other gadgets while you are there because it brings 
> out the extra productivity in Constellation.

OK. I'm in. Got my spankin' new Constellation IDE.

Rev's power, and a stylin' interface with a lot of good thought behind 
it. Nice combo. From kicking the tires it seems really sweet. Now... 
gotta take it for a spin.

And thanks Jerry. This puts a whole new perspective on things.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From kgjaqua1 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Oct 17 23:03:23 2005
From: kgjaqua1 at sbcglobal.net (Kathy Jaqua)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:03:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Colors within Colors
Message-ID: <20051018030324.65508.qmail@web81106.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Alls Y'all,
   
    I am using the RunRev Color Palette names to help
    identify graphics used as imageSources. Are these
Palette
    color names used in any other Development
    environments. Will other Developers know what
color
    "Thistle" is?  How about  "Gainsboro"? 
"PeachPuff"...
   
    I am trying to come up with some sort of a naming
    system for small graphics that might give a hint
at
    it's color scheme.  Any Ideas?
   

    Kathy Graves Jaqua
    A Wildest Dream Software
    kgjaqua1@ sbcGlobal.net




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 18 00:00:16 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:00:16 -0500
Subject: spacebar messes up focus?
In-Reply-To: <C97FE9FF-2A55-45BD-9AB9-FF80743E177D@conncoll.edu>
References: <09943F58-F73C-4A75-87CC-9223C4E151D4@conncoll.edu>
	<43532B84.6080005@hyperactivesw.com>
	<F53762D2-02C8-42F7-905B-A9EAC43C0CA6@conncoll.edu>
	<4353DF28.3070302@hyperactivesw.com>
	<CCB66909-98BF-4B5F-96CB-8CB397B416AA@conncoll.edu>
	<43542174.2060104@hyperactivesw.com>
	<C97FE9FF-2A55-45BD-9AB9-FF80743E177D@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <43547350.2030102@hyperactivesw.com>

Charles Hartman wrote:
 >
 > On Oct 17, 2005, at 6:11 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
 >
 >> Charles Hartman wrote:
 >> >
 >> > On Oct 17, 2005, at 1:28 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
 >> >
 >> >> Also, the behavior doesn't seem to occur unless you have a modal
 >> >> stack frontmost. If you can change your frontmost stack to modeless
 >> >> during debugging, you should be able to type as usual.
 >> >>
 >> >
 >> > It turns out that the same happens when my dialog box is modeless.
 >> > Maybe not all the time, I'm not sure. But while I'm typing in one of
 >> > the dlg's text fields, I'm getting the same loss-of-focus-on- 
spacebar.
 >>
 >> I can't reproduce it here (but I didn't try too hard.) Do you have  a
 >> keydown handler somewhere, or a rawKeyDown handler?
 >
 >
 > No, I don't. And I can't reproduce it either. It has come and gone  two
 > or three times; no clue about the circumstances. I hate that.

Me too. I should add a thing to my time-warp stack that lets us run 
events backward so we can trace bugs after the fact.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 18 00:09:18 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:09:18 -0500
Subject: FORTH and Hypercard
In-Reply-To: <12125086192.20051017153347@ahsoftware.net>
References: <20051016073212.CE3C6825062@mail.runrev.com>	<9D636A6B-816C-474D-8A05-6DFC00281E8B@writeme.com>	<12727908039.20051016160112@ahsoftware.net>	<A866E244-3D54-42BC-B1BB-3FDB5EF501D4@writeme.com>	<p06230900bf78b176ada2@[192.168.1.101]>	<43532AE3.1020408@hyperactivesw.com>	<8C7A147E73D95D5-E60-3B3@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com>	<4353E0D2.5060901@hyperactivesw.com>
	<12125086192.20051017153347@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <4354756E.1010406@hyperactivesw.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:
> Jacque-
> 
> Monday, October 17, 2005, 10:35:14 AM, you wrote:
> 
> 
>>True, though knowing Scott Raney he wouldn't change it even now.
> 
> 
> There shouldn't really be much of a speed difference - the way this is
> usually handled is you create a hash table with the overloaded
> functions. If there's a match in the hash table then you process it
> locally, otherwise you move right on to the builtins. So the only hit
> you take is in a quick lookup in the hash table. It's a direct lookup,
> it's either there or it isn't, and it's compiled and optimized. Should
> actually take less overhead than a scripted function call.
> 
> I sense an inherent incompatibility between the folks who want more
> speed out of the basic engine calls (arrays and such) and the folks
> who want the flexibility of overloading the builtin functions. I fall
> more in the latter category, but not enough to want things to change
> (and possibly break existing behavior).
> 

I can't think of a reason to change it either, but there's no law 
against putting in a Bugzilla feature request if someone really wants it.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Oct 18 00:16:56 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 06:16:56 +0200
Subject: ANN: New Website for TAOO
In-Reply-To: <CFFC8AA6-8F51-4962-A976-46DFA7A3D02C@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <20051018034540.A405F8251EB@mail.runrev.com>


call it OOP by McGiver made with what he's got!

;)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Dan Shafer
> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 6:25 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: ANN: New Website for TAOO
> 
> OK, good. That's what I understood. Those approaches are not 
> really overriding and subclassing; they are rather 
> copy-paste-tweak methods.  
> NOthing wrong with that, you understand, just that they fall 
> short of "pure" object orientation.
> 
> Dan



From davis.phil at comcast.net  Tue Oct 18 00:22:00 2005
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:22:00 -0700
Subject: access to .xls files via ODBC? or ???
Message-ID: <43547868.5020802@comcast.net>

Hi people,

I've never used RR's database access features. I would like to write 
data to an Excel spreadsheet directly - not to a text file that Excel 
can import. I would also like to get data directly from a spreadsheet 
file. Am I dreaming, or is it possible to do that via ODBC? Or is there 
another approach?

Seems like I've designated an .xls file as an ODBC data source somewhere 
in the past, in some other tool - maybe MS Access?

Anyway, that's what I want to do. Has anyone done this before? What's 
the best approach?

Many thanks -
Phil Davis



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Oct 18 01:25:34 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:25:34 +0200
Subject: Approach to explaining TAOO [was ANN: New Website for TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <B48AD230-D064-4DB9-B9C2-136F4C514C1A@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <20051018045401.C801B8251B2@mail.runrev.com>

you definitely are on the same wave! May i put this into the wiki? 
 
Anyone with an interest deserves a voice in it i think...
 
You have, again, hit the nail on the head!
 


  _____  

From: Dennis Brown [mailto:see3d at writeme.com] 
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 6:36 PM
To: x at monsieurx.com
Subject: Approach to explaining TAOO [was ANN: New Website for TAOO]


Xavier, 

If I truly have got "it" then I can suggest an approach to explaining "it"

It seems to me that the problem is that you have spent 15 years building a
"do everything I want" program. When you try and explain it, you end up
trying to explain "everything you have wanted" for the last 15 years. This
is next to an impossible task without writing a book! However, all is not
lost. You just need to take us back 15 steps from a technical development
point of view.

TAOO is built on a conceptually simple idea that supports the basic
capability to add functionality. Instead of telling us all about the
wonderful functionality you have built on "it", tell us what "it" is and how
we could use "it" to build our own functionality from the humble beginnings.
Then later tell us about just one at a time of the wonderful things you have
added to "it" to solve a problem. Most important is don't explain anything
using terms that are used for OOP or any other buzzword rich religion.
Explain from simple concepts in normal simple terms that have universal
understanding.

At the most primitive level, you are "supporting" a way of defining a named
script, or a named object with a script. You also have a dictionary of the
things that have been defined to make it easy to find and specify the use of
these things.

We all understand how the things in the last paragraph are defined and used
in Rev. How are they different in "it"?

I am not trying to explain TAOO here. I am trying to explain how you can
explain to me and others in a way that can be grasped --one easy step at a
time. Don't explain too much at once. Just start with the most primitive
concept that makes it possible to build on.

If you start this way, and even create a very simple version of "it" with
almost no added capability for others to try out and explore, I am sure you
will get a lot of useful feedback and helpful participation that you are
looking for.

Dennis

On Oct 17, 2005, at 1:12 AM, MisterX wrote:


you got it!

It's not forth programming with stacks though!

The "name" = object stuff was cleverly left out!

cheers
Xavier





From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 18 01:32:09 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:32:09 -0700
Subject: Lines, items, repeat loops, > not always what you think
In-Reply-To: <43543650.3020809@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <BF79D6E9.2F1F8%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Cautionary note:  I have gone to a different method of controlling repeat
loops now that I am working with database tables.

(Please note the handlers I have included below to see this 'anomaly' in
action.)

In Xtalk, the number of lines or items depends on the delimiter AND if the
last line/item has anything in it.   Due to this inconsistency, I am now
using a function ... delimCount()+1  as follows

put fld colorList into temp  --a list of 12 colors
repeat with x = 1 to delimCount(temp,return) +1
   answer  line x of temp ? which will now do all 12 lines, even if the last
one is empty
end repeat
 I am often looking for missing values in database tables, and if the last
column of a row, or the last line of a column is blank, it will be skipped
and my maintenance will be faulty.

Anyone have a better solution?

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

------------------ copy code and call procedure  'countAfterSort'

on countAfterSort
    --Example of the anomaly for items and lines
    --all we are doing here is sorting the same container
    --note the message box after handler completes

    put "1,7,9,4,,,,6,2,5,8,3" into temp
    put the number of items in temp & " items in > " & temp
    sort items in temp
    put  the number of items in temp & " items in > " & temp into ans
    answer "Their are " & ans
    put msg & return & ans
    sort items in temp descending numeric
    put  the number of items in temp & " items in > " & temp into ans
    answer "Their are " & ans
    put msg & return & ans
    sort items in temp ascending numeric
    put  the number of items in temp & " items in > " & temp into ans
    answer "Their are " & ans
    put msg & return & ans
    
    put "The string ALWAYS contained " & delimCount(temp,",") & \
        " commas but not always that many items" into ans
    answer ans
    put msg & return & ans
    answer "Read the message box"
    
end countAfterSort

function delimCount strr, del
    put 0 into hits
    repeat with x = 1 to number of characters in strr
        if char x of strr is del then add 1 to hits --found a delimiter
    end repeat
    return hits
end delimCount
--------------------------------------- end code


From revdan at danshafer.com  Tue Oct 18 02:11:58 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:11:58 -0700
Subject: ANN: New Website for TAOO
In-Reply-To: <20051018034540.A405F8251EB@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051018034540.A405F8251EB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <718B4612-2E1F-43D8-BD33-0197695D8958@danshafer.com>

OK, just between us then we'll call it McGiverOOP. LOL

Dan

On Oct 17, 2005, at 9:16 PM, MisterX wrote:

> call it OOP by McGiver made with what he's got!
>



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 18 02:49:31 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:49:31 -0700
Subject: ANN: New Website for TAOO
In-Reply-To: <718B4612-2E1F-43D8-BD33-0197695D8958@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <BF79E90B.2F200%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

There were four scripts standing at a bar waiting for an object.  The object
tender sent one sliding down and the first script grabbed it and began
running in place.  It had his name on it and he smiled and was happily
employed.

Hmmmm. 

Jim Ault 
Las Vegas


On 10/17/05 11:11 PM, "Dan Shafer" <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:

> OK, just between us then we'll call it McGiverOOP. LOL
> 
> Dan
> 
> On Oct 17, 2005, at 9:16 PM, MisterX wrote:
> 
>> call it OOP by McGiver made with what he's got!
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From chandapukiran at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 03:35:22 2005
From: chandapukiran at gmail.com (chandapu kiran kumar)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:05:22 +0530
Subject: ANN: New Website for TAOO
In-Reply-To: <BF79E90B.2F200%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
References: <718B4612-2E1F-43D8-BD33-0197695D8958@danshafer.com>
	<BF79E90B.2F200%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dfa2c29e0510180035l4425e8b7h3bbbcb12ef434012@mail.gmail.com>

i dont know any thing about your problems then please don;t send me any
e-mail please[
with reagards
kiran kumar
bye take care


 On 10/18/05, Jim Ault <JimAultWins at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> There were four scripts standing at a bar waiting for an object. The
> object
> tender sent one sliding down and the first script grabbed it and began
> running in place. It had his name on it and he smiled and was happily
> employed.
>
> Hmmmm.
>
> Jim Ault
> Las Vegas
>
>
> On 10/17/05 11:11 PM, "Dan Shafer" <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:
>
> > OK, just between us then we'll call it McGiverOOP. LOL
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > On Oct 17, 2005, at 9:16 PM, MisterX wrote:
> >
> >> call it OOP by McGiver made with what he's got!
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription
> > preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk  Tue Oct 18 03:37:38 2005
From: mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:37:38 +0100
Subject: Colors within Colors
In-Reply-To: <20051018030324.65508.qmail@web81106.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051018030324.65508.qmail@web81106.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4354A642.70609@harbourhost.co.uk>

Kathy Jaqua wrote:
> Hi Alls Y'all,
>    
>     I am using the RunRev Color Palette names to help
>     identify graphics used as imageSources. Are these
> Palette
>     color names used in any other Development
>     environments. Will other Developers know what
> color
>     "Thistle" is?  How about  "Gainsboro"? 
> "PeachPuff"...
>    
>     I am trying to come up with some sort of a naming
>     system for small graphics that might give a hint
> at
>     it's color scheme.  Any Ideas?
>    
> 
>     Kathy Graves Jaqua

Hi Kathy,

My understanding is that the color names are originally a Unix mechanism 
- (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). Also Netscape established a 
similar (but not identical) set that is widely known to web developers.

So the colornames aren't just a rev thing and will be at least familiar 
within certain user-communities.

Martin Baxter


From chandapukiran at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 03:43:22 2005
From: chandapukiran at gmail.com (chandapu kiran kumar)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:13:22 +0530
Subject: Colors within Colors
In-Reply-To: <4354A642.70609@harbourhost.co.uk>
References: <20051018030324.65508.qmail@web81106.mail.yahoo.com>
	<4354A642.70609@harbourhost.co.uk>
Message-ID: <dfa2c29e0510180043x384a3d51l7f77faa5085f91cb@mail.gmail.com>

don;t sent me e-mail okay
bye take care
and have fun
because i am very confusing about this e-mails


 On 10/18/05, Martin Baxter <mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Kathy Jaqua wrote:
> > Hi Alls Y'all,
> >
> > I am using the RunRev Color Palette names to help
> > identify graphics used as imageSources. Are these
> > Palette
> > color names used in any other Development
> > environments. Will other Developers know what
> > color
> > "Thistle" is? How about "Gainsboro"?
> > "PeachPuff"...
> >
> > I am trying to come up with some sort of a naming
> > system for small graphics that might give a hint
> > at
> > it's color scheme. Any Ideas?
> >
> >
> > Kathy Graves Jaqua
>
> Hi Kathy,
>
> My understanding is that the color names are originally a Unix mechanism
> - (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). Also Netscape established a
> similar (but not identical) set that is widely known to web developers.
>
> So the colornames aren't just a rev thing and will be at least familiar
> within certain user-communities.
>
> Martin Baxter
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Tue Oct 18 03:57:02 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:57:02 +0200
Subject: ANN: New Website for TAOO
In-Reply-To: <dfa2c29e0510180035l4425e8b7h3bbbcb12ef434012@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OF11C15E64.0CBE0EF8-ONC125709E.002B9212-C125709E.002BAA07@deutsche-boerse.com>

we are discussing general things in rev related to rev - not just your 
problems.

Welcome to our shared-problem community and it's shared solutions... 
cheers
---------------------=---------------------
Xavier Bury
Clearstream Services
TNS NT LAN Server
ext 36465
Voice: +352 243 3 6465
Fax: +352 243 63 6465



chandapu kiran kumar <chandapukiran at gmail.com> 
Sent by: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
18/10/05 09:35
Please respond to
How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>


To
How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
cc

Subject
Re: ANN: New Website for TAOO







i dont know any thing about your problems then please don;t send me any
e-mail please[
with reagards
kiran kumar
bye take care


 On 10/18/05, Jim Ault <JimAultWins at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> There were four scripts standing at a bar waiting for an object. The
> object
> tender sent one sliding down and the first script grabbed it and began
> running in place. It had his name on it and he smiled and was happily
> employed.
>
> Hmmmm.
>
> Jim Ault
> Las Vegas
>
>
> On 10/17/05 11:11 PM, "Dan Shafer" <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:
>
> > OK, just between us then we'll call it McGiverOOP. LOL
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > On Oct 17, 2005, at 9:16 PM, MisterX wrote:
> >
> >> call it OOP by McGiver made with what he's got!
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription
> > preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




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From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Tue Oct 18 04:16:53 2005
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (Scott Morrow)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 01:16:53 -0700
Subject: control layer in a grp
In-Reply-To: <601840646.20051017090621@ahsoftware.net>
References: <c28bb7fbd6f651dffba82249c1a8813f@elementarysoftware.com>
	<601840646.20051017090621@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <70a127f6ea8ba6079a06b1dc00512cee@elementarysoftware.com>

Thanks to all who responded.  I learned some interesting things and 
adopted a better solution than the one I had. (Phil, your solution was 
just what I needed!)
Mark, I was trying to use the arrow keys to move across columns of 
fields where no useful field naming convention exists but the stacking 
order is identical between groups. ie. from control x of grp A to 
control x of grp B.
-Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust !)
web     http://elementarysoftware.com/
email   scott at elementarysoftware.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Davis wrote:
> Hi Scott,
>
> To find the relative layer of a control whose name is unique to the 
> current card, his will work:
>
>   put (the layer of control "abc") into tObjectLayer
>   put (the layer of the owner of control "abc") into tGroupLayer
>   put (tObjectLayer - tGroupLayer) into tObjectRelativeLayer
>
> I broke it into 3 statements to prevent line wrapping - you could do 
> it all in one line if so inclined.
>
> HTH -
> Phil Davis

Ken Ray wrote:
> Well, actually there is, but it's a bit of a kludge -- if you're "in" 
> the
> group (i.e. the same as clicking "Edit Group" on the toolbar in Rev), 
> you
> can ask for the layer of a field and it will give you the stacking 
> order for
> that field in the group.
>
> So you can:
>
> 1) Select the group
> 2) Go into "editbackground" mode
> 3) Get the layer of the field you're interested in
> 4) Exit "editbackground" mode
>
> Like this:
>
> select group "myGroup"
> start editing group "myGroup"
> put the layer of field "TestField" into tLayer
> set the editBackground of the topStack to false
> answer tLayer
>
> HTH,
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com

Mark Wieder wrote:
> Scott-
>
> if you're looking for a specific button in a group, try something like
>
>  if the hilitedButton of group "gpFilter" is 6 then
>
> ...but you've got a group of *fields*? I've used groups of fields but
> then just referred to the fields by name, i.e., field "x" of group
> "abc". What problem are you trying to solve?
>
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net

Scott originally wrote:
>> I'm wondering if there is an easier (faster) way to discover the
>> stacking number of a specific field within a group (the control's
>> stacking number just within that group) without using a repeat
>> structure to step through all the controls in that group, checking 
>> each
>> one to see if it is a match.



From mlange at lexicall.org  Tue Oct 18 05:05:14 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:05:14 +0100
Subject: OT: Wikis
Message-ID: <E3487C2F-93D0-4508-BDA7-992DACF1791D@lexicall.org>

Hi Alex,


> For most topics or areas to document or describe, the most  
> important thing to get right is the organization of the data. I've  
> seen a number of wikis that contained huge quantities of  
> information - but I could never find what I wanted without a lot of  
> effort.  Wikis make it easy to add new categories - so it's easy to  
> have too many categories, or individual articles mis-categorized.
>

That's an excellent point... As the ontology manager proves, I am  
trying to find a way to back up my own wiki with an ontology. In a  
way, the idea is to solve the salesman problem. The user should be  
provided with many different paths to the same information and should  
always be able to accede the information that is relevant to him in  
less than 5 clicks. Slight differences in word use (for instance  
Transcript vs xTalk) should be irrelevant.

Ultimately, what I am after is to be able to use a single  
classification system to acceded all bookmarks I have on the web, all  
files I have downloaded from the web, as well as all documents I have  
on my desktop computer.. transform my desktop into a (cleverly  
organized) CMS... or rather treat my desktop and the web as part of  
the same work environment (I have Broadband at home). When I would  
look for a file on a given topic, I would be told of the related  
topics higher and lower in the tree. I would be told as well of other  
resources (images, rev projects, bookmarks, Contact Addresses,  
Emails, etc.) that belong to the same category.

Duplicating spotlight??? Not really... spotlight suffers exactly from  
the problem highlighted by Alex. It let you randomly search for  
documents, based on their content. For sure, you can without too much  
difficulty attach ad-hoc spotlight comments to anyfile (for this, you  
can define in automator a finder action on a folder). But still, for  
the research to be efficient, what is needed, is a kind of Trove  
classification system to specify these keywords (http:// 
sourceforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php). With the way it works,  
if you happen to change any keyword in the future (from Transcript to  
xTalk)... your search fails.

A demo of my solution so far:
go url "http://revolution.lexicall.org/paypal/Download%20Manager.rev"
(sorry, this one is password protected, still working on it)

The major features are:

(1) URL+Page title are added by drag and drop of the URL from safari.

(2) Keywords are easy to add, thanks to a system which allows for the  
autocompletion of keywords (so to guide the use in the provision of  
correct keywords). Alternatively, you can look for the keyword in the  
keyword list and double click on a line of the list to have it added  
to the entry's keywords.

#######################################################
##
## Automatic Keyword completion routine
##
##        Constraints:
##          Keywords are entities separated by ";". Eventually, they  
can be separated by "; ".
##          A start of line and end of line also marks a start or end  
of a keyword. Spaces are
##          are allowed within a keyword
##        Behaviours:
##           1. A key is pressed in the keywords field
##               If this key is not a space or a keyword separator,  
then completion is proposed.
##               1) information about the start and end position (in  
characters) of the keyword
##                  is retrieved.
##               2) a list of the keywords that match the start of  
the letters already provided
##                  is generated (for this, the full list of keywords  
is used, field "lst_keywords").
##               3) This list is sorted by alphabetical order
##               4) By default, the first item in the list is  
proposed as completing segment
##           2. The up or down arrow keys are pressed
##               1) The next item in the list of completing segments  
is used to complete the letters
##                  appearing between the start of the keyword and  
the selection point
##           3. The left or right arrow keys are pressed when the  
shift key is down
##               1) Jumps to the start (left arrow) or end (right  
arrow) of the keyword

(3)  keywords are easy to find even when you only have a partial match:
  If you do a mousedown on the arrow part of the combobox under the  
list of keywords, it populates the Combo-box with the list of  
keywords in lst that match the selectedtext in the combobox.

Next step is to migrate it to SLQlite, to allow access from the web  
as well as from my desktop... The thing to know is that you can  
easily manipulate SQLlite from the shell. SQLlite itself can be  
downloaded  for free for many platforms (http://www.sqlite.org/).  
Then (sorry for this, Chipp, but an easy and free db management  
system may be decise for bringing new users to revolution), it  
suffices to write some functions like this:

########################
##
##  SQLlite
##

on updateLstFromDB
   put getPanelData() into tA
   set the defaultfolder to "/users/mlange/Work/Scripting/ 
___myProjects/sqlite/"
   put "select * from downloads;" into tSQL
   put shell("./sqlite downloads.db '" & tSQL & "'") into tData
   replace "|" with tab in tData
   put tData into field "lst_downloads"
end updateLstFromDB

on deleteFromDB tID
   put getPanelData() into tA
   set the defaultfolder to "/users/mlange/Work/Scripting/ 
___myProjects/sqlite/"
   put "delete from downloads where id=" & tID & ";" into tSQL
   put shell("./sqlite downloads.db '" & tSQL & "'") into tData
   -- updateLstFromDB
end deleteFromDB

on addEntryinDb
   put getPanelData() into tA
   put the internet date into tDate; put tDate; convert tDate to  
dateItems;
   put item 1 of tDate & "-" & item 2 of tDate & "-" & item 3 of  
tDate && item 4 of tDate & ":" & item 5 of tDate & ":" & item 6 of  
tDate into tTimeStamp
   put quote & tTimeStamp & quote, quote & tA["keywords"] & quote,  
quote & tA["title"] & quote, quote & tA["url"] & quote, quote & tA 
["desc"] & quote into tData
   set the defaultfolder to "/users/mlange/Work/Scripting/ 
___myProjects/sqlite/"
   put "insert into downloads (ID, date, keywords, title, url,  
description) values (null," && tData & ");" into tSQL
   replace numtochar(13) with " " in tSQL   --- Could escape them,  
but I prefer to avoid cr in my application.
   replace cr with " " in tSQL
   replace "  " with " " in tSQL
   put shell("./sqlite downloads.db '" & tSQL & "'")
   -- updateLstFromDB
end addEntryinDb

... At least, that's fine for personal use (that's early code, it  
works, but not really seriously tested). For professional projects,  
to guarantee perfect cross-platform compatibility, best is to use  
Chipp's solution (altSQLlite - http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/ 
altSQLiteCover/default.htm).


Are other persons on this list interested in this kind of problem/ 
solution?

Marielle

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage:  http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Lexicall: http://lexicall.org
Revolution-education: http://revolution.lexicall.org




From sunshine at public.kherson.ua  Tue Oct 18 05:19:01 2005
From: sunshine at public.kherson.ua (Ruslan Zasukhin)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:19:01 +0300
Subject: OT: Wikis
In-Reply-To: <E3487C2F-93D0-4508-BDA7-992DACF1791D@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <BF7A98B5.40120%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>

On 10/18/05 12:05 PM, "Marielle Lange" <mlange at lexicall.org> wrote:

> ... At least, that's fine for personal use (that's early code, it
> works, but not really seriously tested). For professional projects,
> to guarantee perfect cross-platform compatibility, best is to use
> Chipp's solution (altSQLlite - http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/
> altSQLiteCover/default.htm).
> 
> 
> Are other persons on this list interested in this kind of problem/
> solution?

Just technical note:

For professional solutions SQl Lite is NOT good. Point.

You can easy see that some queries even on db in 100-200 MB
Can take 30+ seconds...

And you want put such speed  on WEB ???
Where you site can access 5-10+ users in the same time?

And what about then db in 1-10-20 Gb ?


-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]




From mlange at lexicall.org  Tue Oct 18 05:32:16 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:32:16 +0100
Subject: Unicode Users Unite
Message-ID: <3FAA95F9-9B2D-483E-91E5-0789DE07EF11@lexicall.org>

Yes, unicode is **very** important for some of my projects as well.
(In the context of this: http://lexicall.org/repository/listing.php? 
lastadded=added%20any%20time)

But so far, given I frequently read on the list it is not 100%  
reliable, I  haven't invested much time exploring rev's treatment of  
unicode (I solved my problems in PHP).

Unicoders may be interested in this:
http://www.koders.com/php/ 
fid688BE37A00E98499C7778DAD8320B06CAEE1D19E.aspx?s=rss_fetch.inc
http://www.randomchaos.com/document.php?source=php_and_unicode
(functions for utf8>unicode conversion or unicode manipulation)

Marielle
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage:  http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Lexicall: http://lexicall.org
Revolution-education: http://revolution.lexicall.org



From 36degrees at runrev.com  Tue Oct 18 05:39:35 2005
From: 36degrees at runrev.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:39:35 +0100
Subject: Open Process on OSX
In-Reply-To: <F41D8495-7EDC-46F6-91D0-108F87E0F902@samuelsmith.org>
References: <F41D8495-7EDC-46F6-91D0-108F87E0F902@samuelsmith.org>
Message-ID: <1129628375.32274.43.camel@rachmaninov>

Hi Samuel,

As of version 2.6.1 you can now use 'open process' with UNIX-style
processes on OS X in the same way as on Unix/Linux and Windows.

I'll make a note to update the documentation for the next release.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mark Waddingham ~ 36degrees at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com
       Runtime Revolution ~ User-Centric Development Tools



From mlange at lexicall.org  Tue Oct 18 05:47:18 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:47:18 +0100
Subject: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us
Message-ID: <F74AC63A-603D-4265-96F4-397C4839C296@lexicall.org>

(obviously going through posts from the last week).

> ALso, it IS clear from the description that the old dialog box/ 
> sheet approach will still be available. I think the idea of having  
> the document appearance change dynamically as you mouse over the  
> icons for the design changes is a real coding challenge but could  
> make users much less prone to making dumb design decisions.

Not sure it is a coding challenge. You can very easily achieve such  
effect with HTML+CSS. The challenge is not about the programming side  
of things, but about coming up with very clever ways of representing  
the information. MS has announced a move to XML (http:// 
msdn.microsoft.com/xml/, http://msdn.microsoft.com/xml/default.aspx? 
pull=/library/en-us/dno2k3ta/html/ 
odc_xmlinoffice2003_summarydoc.asp). Clearly, that's the kind of  
benefit you get when you spend more time thinking about the intrinsic  
organisation of your data than about the hacks and get around in your  
coding.

But XML is clumsy to use and read, time consuming to produce, not  
really good at mixing different data structures. Agreed. That's why  
there is now a move to Microformats: http://revolution.lexicall.org/ 
wiki/tiki-index.php?page=StandardsMicroformats.
Designed for humans first and machines second, microformats are a set  
of simple, open data formats built upon existing and widely adopted  
standards.

In a sense, it is different mini xml patches within a page.

Marielle
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage:  http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Lexicall: http://lexicall.org
Revolution-education: http://revolution.lexicall.org



From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Tue Oct 18 06:06:06 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:06:06 +0200
Subject: AW: Lines, items, repeat loops, > not always what you think
In-Reply-To: <BF79D6E9.2F1F8%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCMENNDJAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hi Jim,


> Cautionary note:  I have gone to a different method of controlling repeat
> loops now that I am working with database tables.
> 
> (Please note the handlers I have included below to see this 'anomaly' in
> action.)
> 
> In Xtalk, the number of lines or items depends on the delimiter AND if the
> last line/item has anything in it.   Due to this inconsistency, I am now
> using a function ... delimCount()+1  as follows

The number of lines or items does not count an additional empty object at the end: "A,B" and "A,B," both have two items.
I would think this is rather a feature, because I don't have to take care of removing delimiters at the end after creating lists with
put something & comma after myList

If you create your lists otherwise, it depends on the source. Some software will automatically put a line delimiter at the end of a field or text, others won't - but they will be consistent.

But I suppose for your purposes something like

put the number of lines in temp into lineCount
if the last char of temp  is return then add one to lineCount 

would be more efficient and give the same result as your delimCount.

> put fld colorList into temp  --a list of 12 colors
> repeat with x = 1 to delimCount(temp,return) +1
>    answer  line x of temp ? which will now do all 12 lines, even 
> if the last
> one is empty
> end repeat

All the best
Thomas Fischer
(Salzburg)



From mlange at lexicall.org  Tue Oct 18 06:07:35 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:07:35 +0100
Subject: docWikis
Message-ID: <7BD28F2E-7E70-4ACD-9B32-E4548CF4B7E7@lexicall.org>

> The examples go on forever. Why should the same weary volunteer  
> experts -- on newsgroups and help boards -- answer the same 200 or  
> 300 questions over and over and over again? For such questions, all  
> that is needed would be a link to the right page on the wiki or the  
> right page in the onboard help documentation. That would leave the  
> volunteer gurus free to field the relatively few new, significant  
> questions. Once solved, those issues would also go to the docWiki.  
> And so on.

Welcome to the wiki sect... sorry universe Tim!

> I'm not talking about just Apple or Windows. Every application,  
> programming language, specific machine, etc., would all benefit  
> from this approach. The thing that makes me crazy about this, when  
> I think about it, is that it just wouldn't be very difficult, or  
> expensive, for any manufacturer or developer to participate.

To the point.

> Some kind of open standard for onboard and/or online help would be  
> very helpful, of course.

Exactly! ... but you also have to take into account economical factors.

For us, users, what counts is free access to quality information,  
frequently updated.

But the ones who are likely to make a quality contribution to this  
documentation are experts (see this mailing list, for instance).  
Experts are happy to do that in a context where they get something  
back (meaningful life, giving back... but also securing a regular  
income). It's not just about standards, it's about finding a way for  
persons to work collaboratively, but still have a way for the experts  
to have their contribution and level of expertise recognized. A  
mailing list is most suitable for experts because each email posted  
by an expert is a small add for his company.

I know that in some game or open source development communities, they  
have a way to "rank" contributors. Anybody with more information on  
this? (reputation system, is it called?).

Then, in the economical world, there is the notion of "decisive  
advantage". It's a bit frightening for experts to participate to an  
initiative that may have some community members accede to "master"  
level 3 times faster than they would have 10 years ago... just  
because of the important difference in quality of information. Even  
more frightening if community members come to believe they don't need  
experts anymore.

I am for a free society. I am personally not interested in money. I  
would do exactly the same amount of work if I was paid nothing for it  
(then in a society where I have no rent to pay, where food is free).  
But we are not in a "free society". We all have a rent or mortgage to  
pay. So, how can we get to a fair balance between the interests of  
all parties: the ones who use services and the ones who guarantee the  
quality of the service we use?

Marielle
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage:  http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Lexicall: http://lexicall.org
Revolution-education: http://revolution.lexicall.org



From mlange at lexicall.org  Tue Oct 18 06:41:48 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:41:48 +0100
Subject: docWikis
Message-ID: <584D1EAD-7959-490F-A6DA-22D230923F3F@lexicall.org>

> In our little corner of the programming universe, I think that most  
> anyone
> only has time to skim, collect some valuable tidbits, contribute  
> answers as
> time and mood permit, then go on with our lives.
> If I decided to follow this path and contribute, my wife would kill  
> me.

That's a very important point.  I tried with similar projects in  
education. Everybody is interested in having things made available  
for free. Nobody is much interested (1) in taking  
*responsibilities*... that is you are the one eventually working all  
night to put everything back together in case a hacker decided to put  
your site to the test and  (2) in helping to fund the development of  
"open" content or "open" source that would *immensely* benefit the  
community in the longer term. So at the end, if you have been crazy  
enough to start doing it, you end up being the one doing 90% of the  
job that needs to be done, and on your hobby time.

Materials is easy to contribute. A clever and reliable  
infrastructure, responsibly managed and maintainted, to host that  
material often comes with a price tag (at least  months full time).

For instance, I can afford to have my websites because maintenance is  
made easy... thanks to the web hosting service I *pay* for (http:// 
www.ukhost4u.com/). Not much, I pay less than ?5 a month, the price  
of a computer magazine and I have a lot more fun playing with my  
websites, I learn a lot more by getting in contact with interesting  
persons via my websites. But what I pay for the web hosting gives an  
idea of what would be required for a good infrastructure and a  
quality service. Given the actual size of the revolution market,  
assuming that a maximum of 200 persons are ready to pay for the  
service (and this is overoptimistic, closer to reality would be 50),  
about $5 a month per user should be collected for it to be viable  
(worth the amount of time spent on this).

Who on this list would be ready to pay $5 a month... for an  
infrastructure that largely exploits the material that comes out on  
the mailing list anyway? Would you prefer to pay less but have the  
website filled with ads?

Marielle
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage:  http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Lexicall: http://lexicall.org
Revolution-education: http://revolution.lexicall.org



From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Oct 18 06:45:41 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:45:41 +0100
Subject: POP with REV ?
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-F2322AAB8CEA533C7DAF24FC3710@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY105-F2322AAB8CEA533C7DAF24FC3710@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4354D255.8000304@tweedly.net>

Sean Shao wrote:

>> I understand why you'd initially hope for direct support within Rev - 
>> but given the availability of two excellent Open Source, well 
>> supported alternatives, I don't think it's anything to be concerned 
>> about; if anything, I prefer having the Open Source versions, since 
>> it let me build in a couple of personal variations to the library 
>> when I used it.
>
>
> I'd like to point out something in regards to libPop3 (as well as all 
> the other libraries I've written to date) - they are in the "Public 
> Domain" and not "Open Source" I do not like the restrictions and 
> licensing needed for "Open Source".
>
> I don't know what the licensing for Sarah's library is, but I'm sure 
> she has it marked on her website or in the download.
>
The terms are confusing and often used in different ways, but I believe 
one of the best explanations of the various terms is the one at 
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.html    (or at least, it agrees 
with the way I think about Open Source, etc.)

It shows "Public Domain" as one of the subsets of "Open Source" - and 
that's how I've always used it.

But I apologise if that confuses anyone, or disagrees with their 
preferred description.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/2005



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Tue Oct 18 07:07:56 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:07:56 -0400
Subject: spacebar messes up focus?
In-Reply-To: <43547350.2030102@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <09943F58-F73C-4A75-87CC-9223C4E151D4@conncoll.edu>
	<43532B84.6080005@hyperactivesw.com>
	<F53762D2-02C8-42F7-905B-A9EAC43C0CA6@conncoll.edu>
	<4353DF28.3070302@hyperactivesw.com>
	<CCB66909-98BF-4B5F-96CB-8CB397B416AA@conncoll.edu>
	<43542174.2060104@hyperactivesw.com>
	<C97FE9FF-2A55-45BD-9AB9-FF80743E177D@conncoll.edu>
	<43547350.2030102@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <12D438DE-EAE0-4145-9E32-3A1736E842A2@conncoll.edu>


On Oct 18, 2005, at 12:00 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> >
> > No, I don't. And I can't reproduce it either. It has come and  
> gone  two
> > or three times; no clue about the circumstances. I hate that.
>
> Me too. I should add a thing to my time-warp stack that lets us run  
> events backward so we can trace bugs after the fact.

Wel . . . of course there *are* programming environments in which  
that's not so hard. Rev, in contrast, doesn't have (as far as I can  
tell) even any way to tell how you got to a particular breakpoint  
line --a stack inspector in the other sense.

Charles Hartman



From dleyanna at rtl.org  Tue Oct 18 07:47:12 2005
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:47:12 -0400
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <7BD28F2E-7E70-4ACD-9B32-E4548CF4B7E7@lexicall.org>
References: <7BD28F2E-7E70-4ACD-9B32-E4548CF4B7E7@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <4354E0C0.2060401@rtl.org>

Marielle Lange wrote:

clip

>
> Exactly! ... but you also have to take into account economical factors.
>
> For us, users, what counts is free access to quality information,  
> frequently updated.
>
> But the ones who are likely to make a quality contribution to this  
> documentation are experts (see this mailing list, for instance).  
> Experts are happy to do that in a context where they get something  
> back (meaningful life, giving back... but also securing a regular  
> income). It's not just about standards, it's about finding a way for  
> persons to work collaboratively, but still have a way for the experts  
> to have their contribution and level of expertise recognized. A  
> mailing list is most suitable for experts because each email posted  
> by an expert is a small add for his company.

How about a small "Google text Ad" kinda thing that would hold the 
equilivant of a sigiture next to the wiki contribution?

Dave

> Marielle
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> --------
> Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist
>
> Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
> Homepage:  http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
> Lexicall: http://lexicall.org
> Revolution-education: http://revolution.lexicall.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From david at dvglasgow.wanadoo.co.uk  Tue Oct 18 07:53:27 2005
From: david at dvglasgow.wanadoo.co.uk (David Glasgow)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:53:27 +0100
Subject: finding and parsing internet shortcuts in Win
In-Reply-To: <20051017105525.CC8BB8252EC@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051017105525.CC8BB8252EC@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <2e3a9f1e8af53a4c07dd57a504707510@dvglasgow.wanadoo.co.uk>

Hello folks,

I am trying to find out how to recognise 'internet shortcuts' on 
Windows.  Some say the extension is URL, but actually they don't seem 
to show an extension even if this option is switched on.  And of 
course, I don't mean URLs, I mean the shortcut text files that contain 
1 or more URLs, and if you double click on them they take you there 
using the default browser.  If I could find them readily, I could 
easily parse the contents within REV.  (Incidentally, I don't want to 
just look in the usual places, so for the purposes of the query, assume 
I have a list of all possible files, and want to identify which are 
internet shortcuts).

Thanks,

Best Wishes,

David Glasgow

http://www.i-psych.co.uk




From dleyanna at rtl.org  Tue Oct 18 08:01:14 2005
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:01:14 -0400
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <584D1EAD-7959-490F-A6DA-22D230923F3F@lexicall.org>
References: <584D1EAD-7959-490F-A6DA-22D230923F3F@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <4354E40A.6010503@rtl.org>

As a new Rev. user, I get a LOT from reading this list! But you know 
what, I'm not sure that it's worth my time, at least the way that I am 
doing it now. I need to find a more efficient way to manage this list. 
Transforming this list into a docwiki seems like it has merit.

I ambiguous about the friendly bantering that goes on between members... 
It is very useful in that you can "feel" the personalities coming out to 
play. On the other hand when I'm trying to follow an issue that I'm 
having a problem with at the moment, it gets in the way. How can I have 
it both ways? I want it both ways!

Sometimes, I know I've read the answer to my problem before (in this 
list) but I can't seem to find it. And then sometimes an answer never 
really comes... (Do all Windows users have a CR/LF problem when printing 
scripts or am I alone in this issue?)

Long live the list (until something better comes along.)

Dave

Marielle Lange wrote:

>> In our little corner of the programming universe, I think that most  
>> anyone
>> only has time to skim, collect some valuable tidbits, contribute  
>> answers as
>> time and mood permit, then go on with our lives.
>> If I decided to follow this path and contribute, my wife would kill  me.
>
>
> That's a very important point.  I tried with similar projects in  
> education. Everybody is interested in having things made available  
> for free. Nobody is much interested (1) in taking  
> *responsibilities*... that is you are the one eventually working all  
> night to put everything back together in case a hacker decided to put  
> your site to the test and  (2) in helping to fund the development of  
> "open" content or "open" source that would *immensely* benefit the  
> community in the longer term. So at the end, if you have been crazy  
> enough to start doing it, you end up being the one doing 90% of the  
> job that needs to be done, and on your hobby time.
>
> Materials is easy to contribute. A clever and reliable  
> infrastructure, responsibly managed and maintainted, to host that  
> material often comes with a price tag (at least  months full time).
>
> For instance, I can afford to have my websites because maintenance is  
> made easy... thanks to the web hosting service I *pay* for (http:// 
> www.ukhost4u.com/). Not much, I pay less than ?5 a month, the price  
> of a computer magazine and I have a lot more fun playing with my  
> websites, I learn a lot more by getting in contact with interesting  
> persons via my websites. But what I pay for the web hosting gives an  
> idea of what would be required for a good infrastructure and a  
> quality service. Given the actual size of the revolution market,  
> assuming that a maximum of 200 persons are ready to pay for the  
> service (and this is overoptimistic, closer to reality would be 50),  
> about $5 a month per user should be collected for it to be viable  
> (worth the amount of time spent on this).
>
> Who on this list would be ready to pay $5 a month... for an  
> infrastructure that largely exploits the material that comes out on  
> the mailing list anyway? Would you prefer to pay less but have the  
> website filled with ads?
>
> Marielle
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> --------
> Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist
>
> Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
> Homepage:  http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
> Lexicall: http://lexicall.org
> Revolution-education: http://revolution.lexicall.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Tue Oct 18 08:10:18 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:10:18 +0200
Subject: AW: finding and parsing internet shortcuts in Win
In-Reply-To: <2e3a9f1e8af53a4c07dd57a504707510@dvglasgow.wanadoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCCEODDJAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hi David,

Window's Internet shortcuts have the invisible ending ".URL" much in the same way as links have the invisible ending ".lnk". Both are not shown with "Show Extensions" and neither with the properties, but if you open a DOS box and type "dir" in the right directory, they will show up. I don't know which other software will give you access to these endings, though.

All the best
Thomas Fischer

> -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]Im Auftrag von David
> Glasgow
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. Oktober 2005 13:53
> An: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Betreff: finding and parsing internet shortcuts in Win
> 
> 
> Hello folks,
> 
> I am trying to find out how to recognise 'internet shortcuts' on 
> Windows.  Some say the extension is URL, but actually they don't seem 
> to show an extension even if this option is switched on.  And of 
> course, I don't mean URLs, I mean the shortcut text files that contain 
> 1 or more URLs, and if you double click on them they take you there 
> using the default browser.  If I could find them readily, I could 
> easily parse the contents within REV.  (Incidentally, I don't want to 
> just look in the usual places, so for the purposes of the query, assume 
> I have a list of all possible files, and want to identify which are 
> internet shortcuts).
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Best Wishes,
> 
> David Glasgow
> 
> http://www.i-psych.co.uk
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Tue Oct 18 08:45:55 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:45:55 +0100
Subject: Arrays and Lists
In-Reply-To: <BF795503.2F1AA%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
References: <BF795503.2F1AA%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a05210603bf7a9a928a7c@[192.168.0.101]>

HI,

Thanks for the Sample, but I I think you may have misunderstood what 
I was trying to ask. I have got array's working just fine, but what I 
need is a dynamic list of arrays. I basically have a variable number 
of symbol tables (which are represented as Arrays), which is the 
reason I called them Array1, Array2, ....,  etc., since knowing their 
name is not helpful, since they don't have one, well not one that is 
defined at compile time anyway.

I have some Global Functions that maintain a list of Symbol table names, as so:
NewSymbolTable theSymbolTableName   <-- Adds theSymbolTableName to 
the Global Symbol Table List.
DeleteSymbolTableViaIndex theIndex  <-- Deletes the Symbol theIndex 
from the  Global Symbol Table List
GetSymbolTableNameViaIndex theIndex <-- Returns the Symbol Table Name 
at the theIndex of the Global Symbol Table List
GetSymbolTableCount <-- Returns the number of Symbol Tables currently 
in the  Global Symbol Table List.

Now what I would like to do is to be able to hold a list of arrays, 
and have functions:

GetSymbolTableArrayViaIndex theIndex <-- Returns an Array which 
represents the Symbol for the theIndex of the Global Symbol Table List
SetSymbolTableArrayViaIndex theIndex <-- Set the Symbol Table for 
theIndex of the Global Symbol Table List.

I will also add functions to do the same via the Name of the Symbol 
Table in the  Global Symbol Table List.


The problem is I don't know how to represent a list of Array's in 
TranScript/RunRev, so any pointers on that would be greatly 
appreciated.

All the Best
Dave


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Tue Oct 18 10:14:14 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:14:14 +0100
Subject: Lines, items, repeat loops, > not always what you think
In-Reply-To: <BF79D6E9.2F1F8%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
References: <BF79D6E9.2F1F8%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a05210604bf7ab18bf058@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

I found this ages ago and there was some discussion of the correct 
action that RunRev should take on this list. For instance:

In a List Field, the following:

aaaaaaaaaaa cr
bbbbbbbbb cr
ccccccccccc

Will return a number of lines count of 3 and you cannot select past line 3.

However, this:

aaaaaaaaaaa cr
bbbbbbbbb cr
ccccccccccc cr

Will also return a number of lines count of 3, BUT you can select 
line 4 with the mouse, which just returns an empty string.

The problem I reckon is in the term "delimiter", instead it should 
use a "terminator", that way a item would always "terminate" with a 
"delimiter". The problem seems to be in the consistant use of the 
term "delimiter", sometimes it's used as  an "initiator" and 
sometimes a "delimiter" but most of the time what is really wanted is 
a "terminator".

Just my .5 cents worth!

All the Best
Dave

>Cautionary note:  I have gone to a different method of controlling repeat
>loops now that I am working with database tables.
>
>(Please note the handlers I have included below to see this 'anomaly' in
>action.)
>
>In Xtalk, the number of lines or items depends on the delimiter AND if the
>last line/item has anything in it.   Due to this inconsistency, I am now
>using a function ... delimCount()+1  as follows
>
>put fld colorList into temp  --a list of 12 colors
>repeat with x = 1 to delimCount(temp,return) +1
>    answer  line x of temp - which will now do all 12 lines, even if the last
>one is empty
>end repeat
>  I am often looking for missing values in database tables, and if the last
>column of a row, or the last line of a column is blank, it will be skipped
>and my maintenance will be faulty.
>
>Anyone have a better solution?
>
>Jim Ault
>Las Vegas
>
>------------------ copy code and call procedure  'countAfterSort'
>
>on countAfterSort
>     --Example of the anomaly for items and lines
>     --all we are doing here is sorting the same container
>     --note the message box after handler completes
>
>     put "1,7,9,4,,,,6,2,5,8,3" into temp
>     put the number of items in temp & " items in > " & temp
>     sort items in temp
>     put  the number of items in temp & " items in > " & temp into ans
>     answer "Their are " & ans
>     put msg & return & ans
>     sort items in temp descending numeric
>     put  the number of items in temp & " items in > " & temp into ans
>     answer "Their are " & ans
>     put msg & return & ans
>     sort items in temp ascending numeric
>     put  the number of items in temp & " items in > " & temp into ans
>     answer "Their are " & ans
>     put msg & return & ans
>    
>     put "The string ALWAYS contained " & delimCount(temp,",") & \
>         " commas but not always that many items" into ans
>     answer ans
>     put msg & return & ans
>     answer "Read the message box"
>    
>end countAfterSort
>
>function delimCount strr, del
>     put 0 into hits
>     repeat with x = 1 to number of characters in strr
>         if char x of strr is del then add 1 to hits --found a delimiter
>     end repeat
>     return hits
>end delimCount
>--------------------------------------- end code
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ianl at mac.com  Tue Oct 18 10:30:33 2005
From: ianl at mac.com (Ian Leigh)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:30:33 +0100
Subject: Reading from gamepads etc. over USB?
Message-ID: <818AF927-70BE-405F-AB8B-9761136E61A5@mac.com>

Just wondering if it is possible to read input from gamepads or other  
USB related trickery?

Cheers


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Oct 18 10:33:15 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:33:15 -0700
Subject: Reading from gamepads etc. over USB?
In-Reply-To: <818AF927-70BE-405F-AB8B-9761136E61A5@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BF7A55BB.2308C%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Ian Leigh  wrote:

> Just wondering if it is possible to read input from gamepads or other
> USB related trickery?

At one time, Chipp Walters and Altuit were said to be working on an
external...

Chipp?


Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From psahores at easynet.fr  Fri Oct 14 16:42:13 2005
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 22:42:13 +0200
Subject: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps
In-Reply-To: <434FA8FA.8070700@harryscollar.com>
References: <20051014082630.23C29825093@mail.runrev.com>
	<434FA8FA.8070700@harryscollar.com>
Message-ID: <58FDF8A8-8EE5-4D70-BA0B-5843E2944E46@easynet.fr>

Hi Alex,

Perhaps would this link help, with all my apologies about my froggy's  
english !,  in about building web applications servers (instead of  
simple cgis) in using Rev. Works well there since 1998 (linux and osx  
servers) : <http://istream.homeunix.com/insead/index_en.html>

Best,

Le 14 oct. 05 ? 14:47, Alex Shaw a ?crit :

> hi
>
> personally i've pushed mc/rev to the limits (& beyond) for some of  
> my projects the last few years
>
> i've been investigating a few of these issues & various other  
> technologies (on the "market") over the last few weeks & usually in  
> my head i'm thinking... well, it can be done in rev.. ~not~ that  
> rev is perfect.. yet ;)
>
> the most consistent & important issue on my plate is the  
> "interface".. it has to work the way i want it to, doesn't matter  
> the backend (which, again an area rev is maturing). the point is,  
> the interface is where the action is
>
> someone made a point about debugging ajax.. mainly i think its  
> because you're dealing with a mixed bag of tricks to make your  
> interface work.. the most popular combo is your typical opensource  
> combo of linux, apache, php etc but down under here in oz microsoft  
> is top of the pop chart, ipods excluded :)
>
> but even in the cgi area, rev is improving.. it still seems to need  
> libraries which i've discovered are not on all public web-hosting  
> services.. personally, i really dislike doing cgi stuff and would  
> much rather do it in transcript.. on that subject..
>
> a quick question for the runrev crew..
>
> * Is it possible to get/order custom-compiled versions of rev? (eg.  
> Stripped down super efficient cgi engine without ~any~ gui code but  
> still database functional)
>
> i currently develop & test on 3 (mac,pc,linux) platforms & as a one- 
> man team i prefer rev's unified approach to development
>
> flash is pretty good too.. my update8 is still on order :(
>
> one project i completed last year was actually a flash-rev combo  
> which worked well (would have been better if i had altbrowser at  
> the time.. currently redeveloping my framework all in rev)
>
> even a "toy" language like blitzmax is exciting because it offers  
> arcade-quality possibilties in the interface department (in slick  
> opengl 3d etc) & is cross-platform, early days yet but possible to  
> do server/cgi with & talk to sqlite .. but it's ultimately  
> nostalgic & the forum participants are mainly a younger generation.
>
> rev can't do that and it doesn't need to but i find the new version  
> of rev quite stable & have been happily using it the last few days  
> for a project, although i still get weird coloured syntax  
> highlighting issues, more so that ye ol metacard :)
>
> regards
> alex
>
> use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>
>> Today's Topics:
>>    3. Re: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps (Trevor  
>> DeVore)
>>    4. RE: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps (MisterX)
>>    9. Re: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps (Mark Wieder)
>>   10. Re: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps (Chipp  
>> Walters)
>>   11. Re: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps  
>> (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
>>   12. Re: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps (Chipp  
>> Walters)
>>   13. Re: Rev vs. AJAX...Or Web-Aware Apps vs. Web Apps (Dan Shafer)
>>   14. Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs TAOO (xbury.cs at clearstream.com)
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

skype : psahores

psahores+ at +easynet.fr
sc+ at +sahores-conseil.com

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

<http://www.sahores-conseil.com/>

WEB/VoD/ACID-DB services over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"




From david at openpartnership.net  Mon Oct 17 06:07:40 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (david bovill)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:07:40 +0200
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax vs
	TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <17555202877.20051016233607@ahsoftware.net>
References: <OF35B56E59.B560395E-ONC125709A.00264755-C125709A.00281EC5@deutsche-boerse
	.com> <p06230904bf7582b038ac@[192.168.1.101]>
	<4350635D.2010005@tweedly.net> <43518545.2020308@fourthworld.com>
	<F7FD743C-8B76-4724-B142-9AE15663EEB4@openpartnership.net>
	<12110241756.20051016110646@ahsoftware.net>
	<1CDDEA47-1954-46E0-BA3A-970C830008FC@openpartnership.net>
	<4352ACCB.9070206@fourthworld.com>
	<230950294.20051016165154@ahsoftware.net>
	<43531A3B.2040404@fourthworld.com>
	<17555202877.20051016233607@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <FFAF4FF8-E87C-44C3-A9A6-3543426C1274@openpartnership.net>

On 17 Oct 2005, at 08:36, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Richard-
>
> Sunday, October 16, 2005, 8:27:55 PM, you wrote:
>
>
>> Can you tell us a bit more about projects you've worked on where
>> multiple team members needed to work on different controls in the  
>> same
>> window at the same time?

First Scenario
The most obvious example for me is at the handler level. I have a lot  
of functions that I re-use. Some of them are in libraries and some of  
them in a stack - like Scripters scrap book. I often sketch them,  
document them and don't quite finish them. When I reuse them, perhaps  
to port them to another platform or make them more generic, or  
faster, I then have to update them in the various stacks that use them.

Now this work is slower because it is not shared work. Other people  
are doing exactly the same work - it is waisted duplicate effort. I  
cannot share my 10 MB script library easily - so I started to port it  
to CVS with a 1MB front end. Now moving over to subversion. This  
would allow anyone to update a single function - speed it up, fix a bug.

When coding I can hit a function key and search though the handlers  
to see documentation and if I have written something like this a few  
years back - now if i could search a socially filtered repository of  
all Rev developers....

Second Scenario
I need to work in an open source development community. I work with  
other developers in other languages and create the rich clients for  
front ends. This often works as follows - i sketch out how the call  
would work locally. I call a button. This button knows nothing about  
the context of Rev - it is a black box which receives data and return  
data. It is a little slower than using a library or embedding the  
function in the stack itself, but it has the following advantages:

     1) It is more granular.
     2) It is easier to understand the purpose of the object - no  
need to figure out the stack and abstract the bit you want.
     3) The code and documentation acts as a specification for other  
developers
     3) It is easy for a python / java / perl / php programmer to  
replace and enhance the functionality with open source code.

Third Scenario
Skinning. Rev can be a fabulous tool for creating skins. The stack is  
the skin (which can be exported to XUL / XML) and worked on by other  
open source developers. For this you want to be able to drag and drop  
objects (groups?) which have been refined and bug-fixed by an open  
source development process. The rev "table-object" or an outline  
field would be examples here - but there are many many more.

Stack based approach
is robust and works. It works because it is easy within the existing  
tools for Rev. It requires minimal development. For now it works  
better than the above approach - but this is the reason why so many  
development efforts have not been fully integrated into the Rev  
community. There are three or four tree view or calendar objects  
or... out there but it is simply easier to do-it-yourself in Rev -  
than find and research which stacks are out there, hack someone elses  
stack, figure it out, modify it and copy it to your application. Then  
you have the same problem if you want to publish your work.

Publishing Economics
It is worth publishing a stack (sometimes). But not a component or a  
handler. If it were a four click process - find, download - modify -  
then re-publish - all within the Rev environment then the economics  
would change and more people would do this, and the chicken-and-egg  
dis-economics would reverse to create of positive cycle of  
incremental improvements.


> Sure, but that may be missing the point a bit.
>
> The "problem" is that stacks are monolithic, while most other
> development environments use separate files: .c files, .java files,
> etc. Splitting a stack into substack files helps - different
> developers can work on different parts of a project that way, but a
> stack is the smallest atomic unit that can be parceled out.
>
> One problem is that as stack size grows the stack either must be split
> into separate substack files to distribute the work or one developer's
> work responsibility keeps growing. And splitting a stack into separate
> files can require architectural changes that may have consequences
> down the line. Another problem with this is that development on a
> stack progresses serially (only one developer can work on a stack at a
> time, then hand it off to another) versus in parallel (multiple
> programmers can tackle different parts at the same time).
>
> I've worked on java projects with 10 or so developers all crafting
> pieces of a single application. Let's say someone adds a new routine
> to a source file and then wants to add a reference to it to a header
> file common to several source files. That developer needs to check out
> the header file, make the change, and check it back in. Then when
> another developer wants to make a change to the common header file
> they check it out, add their change, and check it back in. Nobody can
> check out the file while it's being worked on so that changes don't
> overwrite each other.
>
> Let's say there are five of us working on a project together spread
> out over the world. We either have to divide the work into separate
> stacks or we have to email our finished work in token-passing style.
> This limits the sort of collaborative projects that can be taken on
> with runrev (libraries, for example, are typically single-developer
> items).
>
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From david at openpartenrship.net  Mon Oct 17 11:13:42 2005
From: david at openpartenrship.net (David Bovill)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:13:42 +0200
Subject: Function to break apart a Long Name?
In-Reply-To: <a05210601bf796bf671ac@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <20051017044130.2463C825299@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230900bf7959142ba9@[69.19.229.124]>
	<a05210601bf796bf671ac@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <451A3053-6A30-48F3-A41E-BDB5788A3F1B@openpartenrship.net>

A bit of a hack, but may help?

on deconstruct_Object someObject, @someControl, @cardObject, @stackName
   -- <hack>
   put extract_StackObject(someObject) into stackObject
   put the last word of stackObject into stackName
   delete char 1 of stackName
   delete last char of stackName
   -- put the short name of stackObject into stackName
   -- </hack>

   put "(^.*) of (card .*) of stack" && quote & "(.*)" & quote into  
someReg
   if matchtext(someObject, someReg, someControl, cardObject,  
stackNameBit) is true then
     return stackObject
   else if word 1 of someObject is "stack" then
     put "^stack" && quote & "(.*)" & quote into someReg
     if matchText(someObject, someReg, stackNameBit) is true then
       -- a stack
       put empty into someObject
       put empty into cardObject
       return stackObject
     else
       return "Not a well formed MC object"
     end if
   else if word 1 of someObject is "card" then
     put "(^card .*) of stack" && quote & "(.*)" & quote into someReg
     if matchtext(someObject, someReg, cardObject, stackNameBit) is  
true then
       put empty into someObject
       return stackObject
     else
       return "Not a well formed MC object"
     end if
   else -- it's a group not on a card
     put "(^.*) of stack" && quote & "(.*)" & quote into someReg
     if matchtext(someObject, someReg, someControl, stackNameBit) is  
true then
       put empty into cardObject
       return stackObject
     else
       return "Not a well formed MC object"
     end if
   end if
end deconstruct_Object

function extract_StackObject someObject
   if someObject is empty then put the long name of the target into  
someObject
   setOffsets_StackObject someObject, stackNameStart, stackNameEnd
   return char stackNameStart to stackNameEnd of someObject into  
longStackName
end extract_StackObject

on setOffsets_StackObject someObject, @stackNameStart, @stackNameEnd
   -- hack assumes last char is quote
   put the number of chars of someObject into stackNameEnd
   put "stack" && quote into stackStart
   put offset(stackStart, someObject) into stackNameStart
end setOffsets_StackObject


On 17 Oct 2005, at 17:00, David Burgun wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Does anyone know of a function that will extract name of the  
> Control, Group, Card and Stack from a long name string?
>
> e.g. I have a string of the form:
>
> control "A" of group "B" of card "C" of stack "D"
>
> And I would like to have:
>
> local myControlName  = A
> local myGroupName = B
> local myCardName = C
> local myStackName = D
>
> Any tips of how to write some code to do this would be greatly  
> appreciated if there is not a standard function available.
>
> I haven't used the string function in RunRev much and I'm having  
> difficulty in working out the best way to do this.
>
> Thanks a lot
> All the Best
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From todd at geistinteractive.com  Mon Oct 17 11:16:48 2005
From: todd at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 08:16:48 -0700
Subject: vAlign Images in lines of text
Message-ID: <BF790E70.38FFC%todd@geistinteractive.com>

Hello,

I used set imageSource to put a little Icon in a line of text.

What I get is both the Icon and the text aligned to the text base line

What I want is for the text to be centered on the Icon.

Is this possible?

Thanks

Todd



-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From phefti at club-internet.fr  Mon Oct 17 13:39:41 2005
From: phefti at club-internet.fr (Pascal)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:39:41 +0200
Subject: importing data from excel
Message-ID: <c32c860adfdbbebcd87be02be8cffe2f@club-internet.fr>

Hello,

I'm a newcomer on the list, and not yet an user of Revolution.
Before going into it I need the  answer to the following question : Is 
there an easy way to import data from an Excel tablesheet into a 
Revolution stack?

Thanks

Pascal



From david at openpartenrship.net  Tue Oct 18 06:33:13 2005
From: david at openpartenrship.net (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:33:13 +0200
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>

True and the real value of Rev is that the tools are built in the  
language so we can enhance the core product - the more contributions  
like Lord Daniels the better!

On 18 Oct 2005, at 01:15, Dan Shafer wrote:

> A couple of you were kind enough to point out that in my exuberant  
> endorsement of Jerry Daniels' wonderful Constellation Rev IDE, I  
> came off sounding a bit like the built-in, out-of-the-box Rev IDE  
> was a piece of crap. Let me set the record straight. It's  
> wonderful. It has flaws and rough edges and quirks that sometimes  
> confuse newbies and even oldies. But it's still really a great  
> product.
>
> It's just that Constellation learned from what the Rev IDE  
> designers did one way and created a new way that I personally find  
> more usable and seamless.

Bought a copy, and already I'd like to "improve it" :) particularly  
to switch more easily between Constellation and Rev IDE - need to be  
able to get at Rev's fab Geometry Manager more easily?


From david at openpartenrship.net  Tue Oct 18 06:42:57 2005
From: david at openpartenrship.net (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:42:57 +0200
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <BF7998A6.2F1DD%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
References: <BF7998A6.2F1DD%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <45CA8EC2-0E10-4C4E-99B2-9DCCFC049B4C@openpartenrship.net>

Hmmm... not going to convince you then :)

If you have seen the progress of wikipedia over the last 2 and a bit  
years from unfunded nothing to one of the worlds most valuable  
multilingual encyclopaedias based on idiotically simple technology  
that could have been built in revolution in a month by a single  
developer, and based on the input of hundreds of thousands of  
unherdable cats, plus a few freaks, with nothing but an collectively  
organised skeleton of an editorial process...

Try deleting a page on wikipedia or defacing it and see how long it  
takes to be replaces by all those "cats". Take a look at how many  
tiny contributions and corrections are posted every minute by people  
with "wives that would kill them" - the best sort :) There is an irc  
channel somewhere - which last time i checked was showing around 20  
posts (ie modifications and new contributiuons) every minute.

Paid dedicated centrally controlled editorial is not the only way to  
produce quality - social filtering and structured openess goes a long  
way in defined application areas.


On 18 Oct 2005, at 03:06, Jim Ault wrote:

> Of course, who decides what qualifies as good/excellent content..   
> Expert
> level, moderate, beginner, one example, two, five, .. fastest  
> algorithm,
> easiest to write..  how to put pieces together to solve scenarios..  
> catalog
> the exceptions and bugs.. even to build a rudimentary decision tree  
> for
> someone to follow to build an app..
>
> All would be a very large task for several individuals.  Add to the  
> mix that
> the most accomplished contributors are advanced because they do  
> this for a
> living which means they have no time for their own documentation of
> projects, let alone building a knowledge base.
>
> In our little corner of the programming universe, I think that most  
> anyone
> only has time to skim, collect some valuable tidbits, contribute  
> answers as
> time and mood permit, then go on with our lives.
>
> As they say, "managing programmers is like herding cats", and that  
> is the
> way it should be.  I wish you good luck getting support.  If I  
> decided to
> follow this path and contribute, my wife would kill me.



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Tue Oct 18 11:07:55 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:07:55 +0100
Subject: AW: Lines, items, repeat loops, > not always what you think
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCMENNDJAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
References: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCMENNDJAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <a05210605bf7abff45311@[192.168.0.101]>

>Hi Jim,
>
>
>>  Cautionary note:  I have gone to a different method of controlling repeat
>>  loops now that I am working with database tables.
>>
>>  (Please note the handlers I have included below to see this 'anomaly' in
>>  action.)
>>
>>  In Xtalk, the number of lines or items depends on the delimiter AND if the
>>  last line/item has anything in it.   Due to this inconsistency, I am now
>>  using a function ... delimCount()+1  as follows
>
>The number of lines or items does not count an additional empty 
>object at the end: "A,B" and "A,B," both have two items.
>I would think this is rather a feature, because I don't have to take 
>care of removing delimiters at the end after creating lists with
>put something & comma after myList

Except if you are using a list field! Then you either have to remove 
them, or check that the selected line is less than or equal to the 
number of lines in the list field.

All the Best
Dave


From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Tue Oct 18 11:10:15 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:10:15 -0400
Subject: docWikis
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744648@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

You can't convince everyone, but you don't need to.

If you convince a few, that will get the ball rolling.


I would participate in whatever rev doc wiki is most popular. Someone
mentioned there is more than one - are any of them being added to?


And... it does not necessarily require experts to directly contribute.
Non-experts and copy answers from this list over the wiki. Participating
in the wiki will help non-experts become experts as they trod through
the minute details of any given function or command.

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of David
Bovill
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 6:43 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: docWikis

Hmmm... not going to convince you then :)

If you have seen the progress of wikipedia over the last 2 and a bit  
years from unfunded nothing to one of the worlds most valuable  
multilingual encyclopaedias based on idiotically simple technology  
that could have been built in revolution in a month by a single  
developer, and based on the input of hundreds of thousands of  
unherdable cats, plus a few freaks, with nothing but an collectively  
organised skeleton of an editorial process...

Try deleting a page on wikipedia or defacing it and see how long it  
takes to be replaces by all those "cats". Take a look at how many  
tiny contributions and corrections are posted every minute by people  
with "wives that would kill them" - the best sort :) There is an irc  
channel somewhere - which last time i checked was showing around 20  
posts (ie modifications and new contributiuons) every minute.

Paid dedicated centrally controlled editorial is not the only way to  
produce quality - social filtering and structured openess goes a long  
way in defined application areas.


On 18 Oct 2005, at 03:06, Jim Ault wrote:

> Of course, who decides what qualifies as good/excellent content..   
> Expert
> level, moderate, beginner, one example, two, five, .. fastest  
> algorithm,
> easiest to write..  how to put pieces together to solve scenarios..  
> catalog
> the exceptions and bugs.. even to build a rudimentary decision tree  
> for
> someone to follow to build an app..
>
> All would be a very large task for several individuals.  Add to the  
> mix that
> the most accomplished contributors are advanced because they do  
> this for a
> living which means they have no time for their own documentation of
> projects, let alone building a knowledge base.
>
> In our little corner of the programming universe, I think that most  
> anyone
> only has time to skim, collect some valuable tidbits, contribute  
> answers as
> time and mood permit, then go on with our lives.
>
> As they say, "managing programmers is like herding cats", and that  
> is the
> way it should be.  I wish you good luck getting support.  If I  
> decided to
> follow this path and contribute, my wife would kill me.

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Tue Oct 18 11:36:56 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:36:56 +0100
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>
	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>
Message-ID: <a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>

>True and the real value of Rev is that the tools are built in the 
>language so we can enhance the core product - the more contributions 
>like Lord Daniels the better!
>
>On 18 Oct 2005, at 01:15, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>>A couple of you were kind enough to point out that in my exuberant 
>>endorsement of Jerry Daniels' wonderful Constellation Rev IDE, I 
>>came off sounding a bit like the built-in, out-of-the-box Rev IDE 
>>was a piece of crap. Let me set the record straight. It's 
>>wonderful. It has flaws and rough edges and quirks that sometimes 
>>confuse newbies and even oldies. But it's still really a great 
>>product.

As a production tool to be used by professionals it sucks a fair bit 
in my opinion! Other development environments suck too or did during 
their evolution anyway. For instance a lot of CodeWarrior releases 
had the same old bugs in them release after release, some of them 
were not fixed for years. Yet the latest version always had loads of 
new features. I see this mirrored in RunRev too.

I mean I've been using RunRev now for about 2 years, but still:

1.  The debugger refuses to obey breakpoints.
2.  The documentaion is still poor.
3.  It crashes or causes me to ForceQuit at 3 times a day on average 
when I am using it full time for development.
4.  Windows in the IDE never open where you left them, especially 
when you have 2 monitors.
5.  The Script Editor does beswick at least 3 times a day, forcing me 
to restart RunRev.

There are loads more like this, but these are the things that really 
get my goat. I reckon I waste at least an hour a day fighting IDE 
and/or Documentation problems.

Having said all that, it's still a good environment but it could be 
much better. I just wish they would do a major IDE bug fix release, 
especiallly with the Debugger. Putting this ahead of adding any new 
features.

All the Best
Dave


From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Tue Oct 18 11:40:41 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:40:41 -0700
Subject: Make image controls from Rev Graphics?
Message-ID: <BF7A6589.391D7%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Hello,


I would like to turn some little graphic icons I made with Rev's drawing
tools into Images/Icons that I could attach to buttons for the different
button states.

Is there any easy way to do this?

Thanks for your help
Todd


-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From devinasay at gmail.com  Tue Oct 18 11:48:48 2005
From: devinasay at gmail.com (Devin Asay)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:48:48 -0600
Subject: Unicode Users Unite--Vote for Bugs!
In-Reply-To: <3FAA95F9-9B2D-483E-91E5-0789DE07EF11@lexicall.org>
References: <3FAA95F9-9B2D-483E-91E5-0789DE07EF11@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <1837967B-78D6-4227-BC26-9F72129AC995@byu.edu>

May I take this opportunity to make may monthly plea for people who  
need better unicode support in Rev to vote for unicode-related bugs  
on bugzilla. If you haven't already, consider voting for Bugzilla  
bugs 2489, 2493, 2497, 2998, 3022, 3023 and 3085. There may be others.

Devin

On Oct 18, 2005, at 3:32 AM, Marielle Lange wrote:

> Yes, unicode is **very** important for some of my projects as well.
> (In the context of this: http://lexicall.org/repository/listing.php? 
> lastadded=added%20any%20time)
>
> But so far, given I frequently read on the list it is not 100%  
> reliable, I  haven't invested much time exploring rev's treatment  
> of unicode (I solved my problems in PHP).
>
> Unicoders may be interested in this:
> http://www.koders.com/php/ 
> fid688BE37A00E98499C7778DAD8320B06CAEE1D19E.aspx?s=rss_fetch.inc
> http://www.randomchaos.com/document.php?source=php_and_unicode
> (functions for utf8>unicode conversion or unicode manipulation)
>
> Marielle
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ----------
> Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist
>
> Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
> Homepage:  http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
> Lexicall: http://lexicall.org
> Revolution-education: http://revolution.lexicall.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Oct 18 11:52:44 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:52:44 -0700
Subject: spacebar messes up focus?
In-Reply-To: <12D438DE-EAE0-4145-9E32-3A1736E842A2@conncoll.edu>
References: <09943F58-F73C-4A75-87CC-9223C4E151D4@conncoll.edu>
	<43532B84.6080005@hyperactivesw.com>
	<F53762D2-02C8-42F7-905B-A9EAC43C0CA6@conncoll.edu>
	<4353DF28.3070302@hyperactivesw.com>
	<CCB66909-98BF-4B5F-96CB-8CB397B416AA@conncoll.edu>
	<43542174.2060104@hyperactivesw.com>
	<C97FE9FF-2A55-45BD-9AB9-FF80743E177D@conncoll.edu>
	<43547350.2030102@hyperactivesw.com>
	<12D438DE-EAE0-4145-9E32-3A1736E842A2@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <1393510367.20051018085244@ahsoftware.net>

Charles-

Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 4:07:56 AM, you wrote:

> Wel . . . of course there *are* programming environments in which
> that's not so hard. Rev, in contrast, doesn't have (as far as I can
> tell) even any way to tell how you got to a particular breakpoint  
> line --a stack inspector in the other sense.

Sure it does. Open the Variable Watcher. Look at the Context pulldown
at the top. That shows your stack trace contexts. Now select one and
you can see the variables from that context. Click the icon button to
the right and you'll see the script editor window change to the
appropriate script. Now if it just highlighted the proper line...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mark at maseurope.net  Tue Oct 18 11:59:38 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:59:38 +0100
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>
	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>
Message-ID: <F6737049-0F96-48B9-83D9-8C33E6C22C42@maseurope.net>

Well, you can set Constellation to show 'script only', in which case  
when you choose tp inspect properties, the Rev inspector will open,  
while your scripts will still open in Constellation. Ypu can have it  
the other way round too. Just check the appropriate button in  
Constellations top left corner...


Mark

On 18 Oct 2005, at 11:33, David Bovill wrote:

> True and the real value of Rev is that the tools are built in the  
> language so we can enhance the core product - the more  
> contributions like Lord Daniels the better!
>
> On 18 Oct 2005, at 01:15, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>
>> A couple of you were kind enough to point out that in my exuberant  
>> endorsement of Jerry Daniels' wonderful Constellation Rev IDE, I  
>> came off sounding a bit like the built-in, out-of-the-box Rev IDE  
>> was a piece of crap. Let me set the record straight. It's  
>> wonderful. It has flaws and rough edges and quirks that sometimes  
>> confuse newbies and even oldies. But it's still really a great  
>> product.
>>
>> It's just that Constellation learned from what the Rev IDE  
>> designers did one way and created a new way that I personally find  
>> more usable and seamless.
>>
>
> Bought a copy, and already I'd like to "improve it" :) particularly  
> to switch more easily between Constellation and Rev IDE - need to  
> be able to get at Rev's fab Geometry Manager more easily?
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Oct 18 12:04:00 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:04:00 +0200
Subject: Make image controls from Rev Graphics?
In-Reply-To: <BF7A6589.391D7%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <20051018153303.C85FF825112@mail.runrev.com>

There's a few dozen PC tools, web tools, but there is one great rev tool for
that!

although I don't know if it works in rev? Chipp?

And it's Chipps famous buttonGadget... 
Never tried it but it looks easy and painless!

http://www.buttongadget.com/buttongadget/default.htm 

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Todd Geist
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 5:41 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Make image controls from Rev Graphics?
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> I would like to turn some little graphic icons I made with 
> Rev's drawing tools into Images/Icons that I could attach to 
> buttons for the different button states.
> 
> Is there any easy way to do this?
> 
> Thanks for your help
> Todd
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Todd Geist
> ______________________________________
> g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From gregory.lypny at videotron.ca  Tue Oct 18 12:04:18 2005
From: gregory.lypny at videotron.ca (Gregory Lypny)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:04:18 -0400
Subject: Silly Sort Question
Message-ID: <FFA7077E-81FF-4DD7-B278-40AAE99E951B@videotron.ca>

Hello everyone,

     I have a simply twelve-line list with the name of a month as the  
first word on each line.  The list is not in order, and I'd like to  
sort it January to December using the monthNames.  Don't know how.

         sort lines of theList by first word in each [need connection  
to the monthNames here]

     Otherwise, I suppose a simple repeat loop, although clunky,  
would do.

     Regards,

         Greg


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Oct 18 12:09:12 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:09:12 +0200
Subject: Silly Sort Question
In-Reply-To: <FFA7077E-81FF-4DD7-B278-40AAE99E951B@videotron.ca>
References: <FFA7077E-81FF-4DD7-B278-40AAE99E951B@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <690EDC21-14BB-4F03-BB0F-21F2385B2359@major-k.de>

Hi Gregory,

> Hello everyone,
>
>     I have a simply twelve-line list with the name of a month as  
> the first word on each line.  The list is not in order, and I'd  
> like to sort it January to December using the monthNames.  Don't  
> know how.
>         sort lines of theList by first word in each [need  
> connection to the monthNames here]

Almost there ;-)

...
sort lines of theList by word 1 of each
...

>     Otherwise, I suppose a simple repeat loop, although clunky,  
> would do.
>
>     Regards,
>
>         Greg

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From davis.phil at comcast.net  Tue Oct 18 12:23:01 2005
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:23:01 -0700
Subject: Reading from gamepads etc. over USB?
In-Reply-To: <818AF927-70BE-405F-AB8B-9761136E61A5@mac.com>
References: <818AF927-70BE-405F-AB8B-9761136E61A5@mac.com>
Message-ID: <43552165.1000801@comcast.net>

This has been a source of great frustration and expense for my company. 
One client has a specialized USB HID device we needed to use for input 
in an RR app, but there was no way to access it natively. We ended up 
writing a communication app in C (one version for Mac, one for Win) that 
runs in the background. It interacts with the USB device on one side, 
and with our RR app on the other side via sockets. It works great but is 
ultimately a workaround.

Phil Davis



Ian Leigh wrote:
> Just wondering if it is possible to read input from gamepads or other  
> USB related trickery?
> 
> Cheers


From simplsol at aol.com  Tue Oct 18 12:25:31 2005
From: simplsol at aol.com (simplsol at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:25:31 -0400
Subject: The Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <E38176BF-8A9A-4599-B4F0-E0B62F37603B@mac.com>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>	<8C7A197F39F765D-109C-1BA1@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com>
	<E38176BF-8A9A-4599-B4F0-E0B62F37603B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <8C7A217B1BB3CAC-77C-31A@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com>

Spence,
  Either your experiences with Rev or your expectations are different 
than mine. I am not talking about "perfection", just basics.
  For example: "Stability". If I save my work after every action, I can 
get through an entire day without a crash. If I do not save my work 
constantly (old HyperCard behavior) Rev will crash in about an hour. 
(The crash seems to be related more to the amount of time used than any 
specific action, for instance, if it is time, Rev will crash just 
opening the docs - something it usually does without drama.) Rev will 
even crash just sitting open on the desktop, doing nothing! I am using 
OS X 10.4 on an Al PB with 1 Gig of Apple installed RAM - I have the 
same problems on a Ti PB using 10.3, and various iMacs.
  You are right about extendability. You can work around many of Rev's 
problems with Richard's Devolution, Jerry's Gadgets, and assorted 
plugins from Frederic and Chipp. But should you need to install a 
plugin to get the cursor to work properly?!? It is nice to have a 
choice of script editors, but shouldn't the one shipping with the 
product "work"? How many people know that they need to get a plugin 
 from Chipp to actually remove the debug checkpoints Rev only appears to 
remove?
  Certainly there has been progress since version 1 - and nothing a 
couple pure "bug fix" upgrades can't handle. I just expect Rev to be "a 
little more perfect" than it is today - and I am concerned that fixing 
77 bugs a quarter in not enough, soon enough.
I am glad to hear that you are satisfied.
 Paul Looney

 -----Original Message-----
 From: James Spencer <jspencer78 at mac.com>
 To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
 Sent: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:46:45 -0500
 Subject: Re: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck

 On Oct 17, 2005, at 8:11 PM, simplsol at aol.com wrote:?
 ?
 > Dan,?
  > I, for one, think you are being way too kind to the Rev IDE. The > 
debugger opens at random sizes. Buttons and bits of buttons float > 
around the script editor. Opening the Variable Watcher opens the > 
Object Inspector (on top of the VW window on my system). The > Variable 
Watcher doesn't watch variables reliably (the clickLine is > a 
particular problem in my work). Hard to believe a Version 2.x > product 
could have so many basic "flaws and rough edges and quirks".?
 > Go Jerry, go!?
 > Paul Looney?
 ?
  I disagree. We are not at version 2.x, we are 2.6.1. At 2.1 your 
comment was valid but in its current incarnation, I find the IDE, at 
least the OS X IDE, to be a solid useable product. It is not perfect 
but it's "close enough for government work." The fact is that Rev is an 
incredibly complicated product and perfection is not to be expected. 
I'm always astounded at how well it works.?
 ?
  That having been said, one of the really, really cool things about Rev 
is that the IDE is infinitely extendable and modifiable: if its work 
flow bugs you, then change it. In this regard, I completely agree with 
Dan's comments. As good as the standard IDE is, for me Constellation is 
a great, great tool, one that for my purposes really enhances Rev and 
makes me just want to write applications and lets me do so faster. This 
environment, enhanced with Constellation and its related tools, is 
simply a blast and I think I'll go write some code.?
 ?
 Spence?
 ?
 James P. Spencer?
 Rochester, MN?
 ?
 jspencer78 at mac.com?
 ?
 "Badges?? We don't need no stinkin badges!"?
 ?
 _______________________________________________?
 use-revolution mailing list?
 use-revolution at lists.runrev.com?
  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:?
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution?

  


From revdan at danshafer.com  Tue Oct 18 13:01:40 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:01:40 -0700
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>
	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>
	<a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <CC443F5E-30AC-4233-B7A8-EDD2B45F0334@danshafer.com>


On Oct 18, 2005, at 8:36 AM, David Burgun wrote:

> I mean I've been using RunRev now for about 2 years, but still:
>
> 1.  The debugger refuses to obey breakpoints.
I see this sporadically as well. I wish I could find a pattern as  
then I'm sure RunRev could and would fix it.

> 2.  The documentaion is still poor.
I disagree, but that is certainly a matter of judgment. I think the  
docs are somewhere between quite adequate and excellent depending on  
the topic. Spotty to be sure, but "poor"? I don't think so.

> 3.  It crashes or causes me to ForceQuit at 3 times a day on  
> average when I am using it full time for development.
Out of curiosity, are you using 2.6.1? On what platform? I have to  
forced quit two or three times a week and about half the time I even  
understand what I did to cause it. Three times a day on average seems  
like a lot. But you may be doing far more sophisticated stuff them I am.
> 4.  Windows in the IDE never open where you left them, especially  
> when you have 2 monitors.
Yeah, this one's a real PITA. I can't ell you how many times I've had  
to use the message box to reposition windows that are on my no-longer- 
connected external monitor.

> 5.  The Script Editor does beswick at least 3 times a day, forcing  
> me to restart RunRev.
>
"beswick"? Cool word but what does it mean? In any case, I use  
Constellation now for script editing and haven't had a single problem  
in weeks.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Tue Oct 18 13:03:30 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:03:30 -0700
Subject: Make image controls from Rev Graphics?
In-Reply-To: <20051018153303.C85FF825112@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BF7A78F2.39204%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Thanks, but unfortunately BudgetGadget is Windows only

:>(

Todd

On 10/18/05 9:04 AM, "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:

> although I don't know if it works in rev? Chipp?
> 
> And it's Chipps famous buttonGadget...
> Never tried it but it looks easy and painless!
> 
> http://www.buttongadget.com/buttongadget/default.htm

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From HyperChris at aol.com  Tue Oct 18 13:14:14 2005
From: HyperChris at aol.com (HyperChris at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:14:14 EDT
Subject: importing data from excel
Message-ID: <fd.1ea06d45.30868766@aol.com>

>>Is there an easy way to import data from an Excel tablesheet into a 
Revolution stack?

Is this a one time export/import or something that needs to happen on a 
regular basis and launched by a script?

If it is a one time ...
save the spreadsheet as tab delimited text and then write a script to pick 
through the data and put it into fields. we can help you with a script for that 
if you like.

if it is an ongoing thing that you want to automate then I can think of 
several ways to do it ...

Have Rev launch an Excel macro file that writes your Excel data to a text 
file and then let Rev snatch the data from there.

Script Rev to do same as above using AppleScript (assuming Mac) instead of a 
macro file. Bonus if you can have AppleScript deliver the info directly to Rev 
and skip the text file.

Script Rev to send AppleEvents (again assuming Mac) to Excel to retrieve the 
data.


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Tue Oct 18 13:19:41 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:19:41 -0400
Subject: spacebar messes up focus?
In-Reply-To: <1393510367.20051018085244@ahsoftware.net>
References: <09943F58-F73C-4A75-87CC-9223C4E151D4@conncoll.edu>
	<43532B84.6080005@hyperactivesw.com>
	<F53762D2-02C8-42F7-905B-A9EAC43C0CA6@conncoll.edu>
	<4353DF28.3070302@hyperactivesw.com>
	<CCB66909-98BF-4B5F-96CB-8CB397B416AA@conncoll.edu>
	<43542174.2060104@hyperactivesw.com>
	<C97FE9FF-2A55-45BD-9AB9-FF80743E177D@conncoll.edu>
	<43547350.2030102@hyperactivesw.com>
	<12D438DE-EAE0-4145-9E32-3A1736E842A2@conncoll.edu>
	<1393510367.20051018085244@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <EEF5CC2C-41E8-4F42-929E-4E1C5175C2D2@conncoll.edu>

Wow. I knew that. I forgot that, somewhere about a week after I  
started using Rev. Thanks.

coh


On Oct 18, 2005, at 11:52 AM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Charles-
>
> Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 4:07:56 AM, you wrote:
>
>
>> Wel . . . of course there *are* programming environments in which
>> that's not so hard. Rev, in contrast, doesn't have (as far as I can
>> tell) even any way to tell how you got to a particular breakpoint
>> line --a stack inspector in the other sense.
>>
>
> Sure it does. Open the Variable Watcher. Look at the Context pulldown
> at the top. That shows your stack trace contexts. Now select one and
> you can see the variables from that context. Click the icon button to
> the right and you'll see the script editor window change to the
> appropriate script. Now if it just highlighted the proper line...
>
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Oct 18 13:22:24 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:22:24 -0700
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>
	<a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <43552F50.2030307@fourthworld.com>

David Burgun wrote:
> Having said all that, it's still a good environment but it could be much 
> better. I just wish they would do a major IDE bug fix release, 
> especiallly with the Debugger. Putting this ahead of adding any new 
> features.

It would be interesting to hear from the makers of the Rev IDE about 
their debugging process.

Could there be a relationship between a less-than-robust debugger and a 
buggy IDE built with it? ;)

     "If I had six hours to cut down a tree,
      I'd spend the first three sharpening the saw."
      - Benjamin Franklin

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  __________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Tue Oct 18 13:25:12 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:25:12 -0400
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <CC443F5E-30AC-4233-B7A8-EDD2B45F0334@danshafer.com>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>
	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>
	<a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>
	<CC443F5E-30AC-4233-B7A8-EDD2B45F0334@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <EE555764-36F5-4908-AD88-BA08667B8409@conncoll.edu>


On Oct 18, 2005, at 1:01 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

>> 2.  The documentaion is still poor.
>>
> I disagree, but that is certainly a matter of judgment. I think the  
> docs are somewhere between quite adequate and excellent depending  
> on the topic. Spotty to be sure, but "poor"? I don't think so.

(as still a beginner who needs the Docs a lot) I agree that they're  
very good -- it's just that they are *deathly* slow. Not for a  
"filter with" in the Dictionary (though I appreciate the D&M gadget  
for that anyway), but for the Topics.

Charles Hartman



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Tue Oct 18 13:26:16 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:26:16 +0100
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <CC443F5E-30AC-4233-B7A8-EDD2B45F0334@danshafer.com>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>
	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>
	<a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>
	<CC443F5E-30AC-4233-B7A8-EDD2B45F0334@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <a05210607bf7adba1d3a8@[192.168.0.101]>

>On Oct 18, 2005, at 8:36 AM, David Burgun wrote:
>
>>I mean I've been using RunRev now for about 2 years, but still:
>>
>>1.  The debugger refuses to obey breakpoints.
>I see this sporadically as well. I wish I could find a pattern as 
>then I'm sure RunRev could and would fix it.

I have even had it refuse to breakpoint when I have inserted a 
breakpoint statement. I reckon the reason is because of a scope 
problem, since often stepping up to the place where a handler is 
called and then stepping into the handler causes it to respond to 
breakpoint from then on. The problem is that it is not always easy to 
do this, since some handlers are called directly by RunRev and then 
is no calling statement to step from.

>>2.  The documentaion is still poor.
>I disagree, but that is certainly a matter of judgment. I think the 
>docs are somewhere between quite adequate and excellent depending on 
>the topic. Spotty to be sure, but "poor"? I don't think so.

Maybe it is Spotty in content, but the format of it really sucks, 
IMO. I mean where in the docs that are supplied in the IDE does it 
tell you how setup and use the menu system under both mac and 
windows? There are lots of little clues dotted around all over the 
place, but nowhere does it tell you how to acheive this basic task. 
IMO, what is really needed in the equivilent of the "Inside 
Macinotsh: " books. Targeted at expert developers. The docs I have 
seen are aimed at someone writing a small light-weight application.

Not only that, there are gaping holes in the docs. For instance, how 
do I find out how to setup up a list of array's? Or if it's even 
possible? No mention anywhere of this that I can find.

This coupled with the fact that the IDE  (especially the docs window) 
is flakey makes it really hard to get going under Rev and still 
causes me to waste time after 2+ years of using it.

>>3.  It crashes or causes me to ForceQuit at 3 times a day on 
>>average when I am using it full time for development.
>Out of curiosity, are you using 2.6.1? On what platform? I have to 
>forced quit two or three times a week and about half the time I even 
>understand what I did to cause it. Three times a day on average 
>seems like a lot. But you may be doing far more sophisticated stuff 
>them I am.
>>4.  Windows in the IDE never open where you left them, especially 
>>when you have 2 monitors.
>Yeah, this one's a real PITA. I can't ell you how many times I've 
>had to use the message box to reposition windows that are on my 
>no-longer-connected external monitor.

You can't seem to get any information as to how many monitors are 
attached, or how big the Desktop is, this affects production software 
too. I was actually thinking of writing an external command to handle 
multiple monitors, the thing that has been putting me off is that I'd 
have to write it for Windows too, and I have no experience of 
programming at that level under Windows.


>>5.  The Script Editor does beswick at least 3 times a day, forcing 
>>me to restart RunRev.
>>
>"beswick"? Cool word but what does it mean? In any case, I use 
>Constellation now for script editing and haven't had a single 
>problem in weeks.

I guess the nearest American equivilent would be "postal"!!!!

But I still think RunRev is worth using, it's just it could be so 
much better. I've spent 5 months building a framework in RunRev that 
avoids a lot of the problems and makes it really fast to develop new 
objects and make them reusable. The learning curve I experienced 
needn't have been there if there were good documentation.

All the Best
Dave




From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Tue Oct 18 13:27:23 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:27:23 -0700
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <BF7998A6.2F1DD%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
References: <BF7998A6.2F1DD%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06200700bf7addf4a8ca@[10.0.1.2]>

I know whatcha mean, Jim.

OTOH, the newsgroups and help boards and email lists, like this one, 
are never-ending sources of free tech support, given generously. 
(It's called "peer support" though the people who assist me almost 
always know a great deal more than I do. Not peers, really.) You 
assist other users yourself, at least on this list.

Theoretically, if help files were written, accumulated and 
continuously improved in the way I suggested, there would be less 
need for "peer support," not more. In addition, less expert users 
could contribute to continuous improvement, in their own ways, some 
of the time. I just learned a clever way to troubleshoot my modem 
troubles, for example. I asked for help it several places, but no one 
else thought of it. If the right docWiki existed, I'd submit that 
helpful bit of knowledge.

The larger idea of docWikis is really just a possibility that popped 
into my imagination. I'm sure it has occurred to others. My previous 
message on this thread represented a tiny thought capsule into 
virtual space, to see what happened. And a virtual vote in favor of 
the concept.

As a frequent, and frequently-befuddled, computer user, I am 
constantly dependent on various forms of documentation and help 
files, and often frustrated and disappointed by the haphazard mess I 
encounter when I have a technical "issue". There must be many 
millions like me.

Cheers,


Tim

>Of course, who decides what qualifies as good/excellent content..  Expert
>level, moderate, beginner, one example, two, five, .. fastest algorithm,
>easiest to write..  how to put pieces together to solve scenarios.. catalog
>the exceptions and bugs.. even to build a rudimentary decision tree for
>someone to follow to build an app..
>
>All would be a very large task for several individuals.  Add to the mix that
>the most accomplished contributors are advanced because they do this for a
>living which means they have no time for their own documentation of
>projects, let alone building a knowledge base.
>
>In our little corner of the programming universe, I think that most anyone
>only has time to skim, collect some valuable tidbits, contribute answers as
>time and mood permit, then go on with our lives.
>
>As they say, "managing programmers is like herding cats", and that is the
>way it should be.  I wish you good luck getting support.  If I decided to
>follow this path and contribute, my wife would kill me.
>
>Jim Ault
>Las Vegas
>
>
>On 10/17/05 5:09 PM, "Timothy Miller" <gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com>
>wrote:
>
>>  It suddenly occurs to me that the docWiki issue goes far beyond
>>  Revolution, though it's possible that Rev could be the first software
>>  company to take full advantage of the opportunity. As others have
>>  mentioned, Rev is a great platform for a comprehensive and
>>  frequently-upgradeable help system.
>>
>>  For instance...
>>
>>  The help files on my OS 10.3.9 Macintosh are okay, compared to
>>  previous incarnations of the Macintosh, and compared to the help
>>  files on Windows XP, frinstance. Compared to what the Macintosh
>>  onboard docs *could* be, given lots of generous, loyal, knowledgeable
>>  users, a very small team of editors, a wiki, and a few tech tricks,
>>  they are a disgraceful disgrace!
>>
>>  Why should I have to spend precious minutes--or hours--hunting on the
>>  Apple support site for a technical bulletin that I hope will explain
>>  why my modem won't send faxes, and how to make it work? If other
>>  users have had the same problem, and solved it, one of them would
>>  donate the needed information to the Macintosh docWiki, in clear
>>  English, plus maybe a link to the technical bulletin.
>>
>>  The editors could check it for accuracy, add some "related links"
>>  index it and cross-reference it, release it to their public docWiki,
>>  and at the same time, release it to the next generation of indexed,
>>  cross-referenced help docs, ready for download, or update, or
>>  whatever. The topics could -- and maybe should -- be searchable in
>  > several different ways -- filter, search-for, logic-tree, FAQs by
>>  topic and subtopic, etc. Maybe boolean, too.
>>
>>  Such docs could -- and maybe should -- be updated frequently, maybe
>>  every day, and eligible for automatic updating, should the user
>>  desire it.
>>
>>  In the same way, docWiki users could suggest clearer wording on
>>  topics already in use, novice, intermediate, and expert versions of
>>  the same topic, terse or verbose versions, and so on. Some topics
>>  would be specific to one machine model, OS version, or software
>>  version. Users of one machine, or one software version, ideally,
>>  could download only the information necessary for the software, the
>>  machine and the OS they actually use, though public docWikis would
>>  remain available for other versions, other machines, and so on.
>>
>>  The examples go on forever. Why should the same weary volunteer
>>  experts -- on newsgroups and help boards -- answer the same 200 or
>>  300 questions over and over and over again? For such questions, all
>>  that is needed would be a link to the right page on the wiki or the
>>  right page in the onboard help documentation. That would leave the
>>  volunteer gurus free to field the relatively few new, significant
>>  questions. Once solved, those issues would also go to the docWiki.
>>  And so on.
>>
>>  Onboard help files could and should be integrated in such a way that
>>  help documentation from various sources could be merged for indexing
>>  and retrieval-- yet tracked separately, so they could be deleted or
>>  updated separately, if needed. Like if I upgrade to a newer version
>>  of PageSpinner, for instance, the onboard docs for PageSpinner would
>>  be refreshed at the same time, without disrupting anything else.
>>
>>  Macintosh already does something along these lines. But the
>>  documentation is so thin... Any time I have a slightly unusual or
>>  complex issue, I can be pretty certain the answer I need will *not*
>>  be in the onboard help docs.
>>
>>  I'm not talking about just Apple or Windows. Every application,
>>  programming language, specific machine, etc., would all benefit from
>>  this approach. The thing that makes me crazy about this, when I think
>>  about it, is that it just wouldn't be very difficult, or expensive,
>>  for any manufacturer or developer to participate.
>>
>>  Some kind of open standard for onboard and/or online help would be
>>  very helpful, of course. God knows we don't want Bill Gates to choose
>>  the standard!
>>
>>  When I think about it this way, Rev is already doing a very good job
>>  of indexing its onboard documentation, with plenty of hyperlinks,
>>  "see also" links, scripting examples, and so on. Better than any
>>  other application I use. (I don't know about other development
>>  environments. Rev is the only one I use.)
>>
>>  All that's missing -- for Rev -- is more of same, plus a wiki, for
>>  continuous improvement and expansion, plus an editorial team, plus
>>  frequent downloadable updates.
>>
>>  Just a thought. A minor inspiration. I dunno -- maybe stupid -- maybe
>>  already thought of, or on the way. I'm not a computer professional.
>>
>>  Cheers,
>>
>>
>>  Tim
>>
>>>  On 17 Oct 2005, at 12:45, Marielle Lange wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Anybody to keep an eye on my wiki during that time
>>>
>>>  Sure I know TikiWiki pretty well by now - can you give me admin
>>>  access so i can turn off those smileys :)
>>>
>>>>>  I did find this
>>>>> 
>>>>>http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=SoftwareRevolution,
>>>>>  but felt that it wasn't quite what I was looking for.
>>>>
>>>>  In what sense?
>>>>
>>>>  These page are meant to serve exactly the same purpose  you propose.
>>>>
>http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=RevolutionSnippetTip>>>
>s
>>>>  http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=ProgrammingXtalk
>>>>  http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=TutorialsTeachers
>>>>
>>>>  I agree, this is a bit burried down, there is too much content on
>>>>  this wiki...
>>>>
>>>>>  So, I've set up a wiki at http://revdocwiki.wikispaces.org/ .
>>>
>>>  Hmmm... three TikiWiki sites out there, and another wiki. Is it
>>>  really necessary to set up another site - setting up is easy
>  >> -maintenance another thing. Another example of the "revolutionary
>>>  approach" to collaboration perhaps :) Could we not all work on the
>>>  same wiki - said hopefully :)
>>>
>>>  NB - having some regular crashes with XML parsing in 2.6.1. For
>>>  instance I can parse TikiWiki pages from www.openpartnership.net,
>>>  but testing on
>>> 
>>>http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=RevolutionSnippetTips
>>>  appears to crash Rev.
>>>
>>>  Has anything changed?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  use-revolution mailing list
>>>  use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>  subscription preferences:
>>>  http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  use-revolution mailing list
>>  use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
>>  preferences:
>>  http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Tue Oct 18 13:38:08 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:38:08 -0700
Subject: [OT] Lock out applications?
Message-ID: <p06200700bf7ae2139fed@[10.0.1.2]>

Sorry, this is really OT.

I'm off-task too much, when at the office. Yet I can't completely 
lock myself out of my browser and email. I need them for business, 
sometimes.

I'm trying to figure out a way to schedule, ration or delay access to 
my email client and web browser, from the office computer. Can't 
think of anything.

I guess a Rev stack could do most of the heavy lifting, but I can't 
figure out a way to restrict my access to these apps via the Finder.

Hmmm... I could log in under a different account name, which 
restricted access to these apps. But then, I can't figure out how Rev 
could get to them, if I couldn't.

Any suggestions?

Cheers,


Tim


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Oct 18 13:44:13 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:44:13 +0200
Subject: Make image controls from Rev Graphics?
In-Reply-To: <BF7A78F2.39204%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <20051018171318.3599D824F04@mail.runrev.com>

oops!

hell is paved with good intentions and they I slipped one more ;)

idea or opportunity for Chipp I hope! 

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Todd Geist
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 7:04 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Make image controls from Rev Graphics?
> 
> Thanks, but unfortunately BudgetGadget is Windows only
> 
> :>(
> 
> Todd
> 
> On 10/18/05 9:04 AM, "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:
> 
> > although I don't know if it works in rev? Chipp?
> > 
> > And it's Chipps famous buttonGadget...
> > Never tried it but it looks easy and painless!
> > 
> > http://www.buttongadget.com/buttongadget/default.htm
> 
> -- 
> 
> Todd Geist
> ______________________________________
> g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Oct 18 13:45:26 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:45:26 -0700
Subject: spacebar messes up focus?
In-Reply-To: <EEF5CC2C-41E8-4F42-929E-4E1C5175C2D2@conncoll.edu>
References: <09943F58-F73C-4A75-87CC-9223C4E151D4@conncoll.edu>
	<43532B84.6080005@hyperactivesw.com>
	<F53762D2-02C8-42F7-905B-A9EAC43C0CA6@conncoll.edu>
	<4353DF28.3070302@hyperactivesw.com>
	<CCB66909-98BF-4B5F-96CB-8CB397B416AA@conncoll.edu>
	<43542174.2060104@hyperactivesw.com>
	<C97FE9FF-2A55-45BD-9AB9-FF80743E177D@conncoll.edu>
	<43547350.2030102@hyperactivesw.com>
	<12D438DE-EAE0-4145-9E32-3A1736E842A2@conncoll.edu>
	<1393510367.20051018085244@ahsoftware.net>
	<EEF5CC2C-41E8-4F42-929E-4E1C5175C2D2@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <15110272220.20051018104526@ahsoftware.net>

Charles-

Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 10:19:41 AM, you wrote:

> Wow. I knew that. I forgot that, somewhere about a week after I  
> started using Rev. Thanks.

Not a problem. Actually, the context icon isn't documented. It got
added in 2.6 and the docs and release notes haven't caught up yet.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 18 13:00:04 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:00:04 -0700
Subject: AW: Lines, items, repeat loops, > not always what you think
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCMENNDJAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <BF7A7824.2F275%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Yes, Thomas,
> put the number of lines in temp into lineCount
> if the last char of temp  is return then add one to lineCount

.. if you are creating a list you should be aware of the style that you use
to generate it.  In more complete applications where you are relying on user
input or other data sources, the 'empty' last item is a real item that needs
to be known as 'missing' or not 'filled in' (such as a form).

One example in a stack of cards.  A inventory list is kept as "one card=one
product".  
-Sort cards by product name.
-Build a list of prices from 1 to the number of cards by putting the price
into line x of pricesCollected and all are collected
-then repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in pricesCollected to find
any missing entries.
-If the last card has no price, 567 cards would only loop 566 times
The last card needs to be fixed, but would not be done.
Made a bit worse if you wanted to rank them the highest to lowest, sort
descending would take any empty line and make it last, and a report would
not publish the last line.

Thus, a line or item may be a real inventory entry, but be ignored in
certain circumstances.  Also a danger if you have a "put empty into line x"
then sort, then an action repeat loop based on the number of lines.

99.99% of the time there would be no problem.
I am doing SQL database table work and searching the tables for missing and
incorrect values.  I have to avoid 'sort descending'.

> put the number of lines in temp into lineCount
> if the last char of temp  is return then add one to lineCount
> would be more efficient and give the same result as your delimCount.
The delimCount(string, delimiter) function can work with lines (cr) or any
item delimeter (/ tab comma quote ^).

Agreed that this is a well-know feature in xtalk, but those who are new and
those of us who collect data from external sources, this can be the reason
our polished-honed-superior-to-all automation delivers a hiccup. :-)

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 10/18/05 3:06 AM, "Thomas Fischer" <fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
wrote:

> Hi Jim,
> 
> 
>> Cautionary note:  I have gone to a different method of controlling repeat
>> loops now that I am working with database tables.
>> 
>> (Please note the handlers I have included below to see this 'anomaly' in
>> action.)
>> 
>> In Xtalk, the number of lines or items depends on the delimiter AND if the
>> last line/item has anything in it.   Due to this inconsistency, I am now
>> using a function ... delimCount()+1  as follows
> 
> The number of lines or items does not count an additional empty object at the
> end: "A,B" and "A,B," both have two items.
> I would think this is rather a feature, because I don't have to take care of
> removing delimiters at the end after creating lists with
> put something & comma after myList
> 
> If you create your lists otherwise, it depends on the source. Some software
> will automatically put a line delimiter at the end of a field or text, others
> won't - but they will be consistent.
> 
> But I suppose for your purposes something like
> 
> put the number of lines in temp into lineCount
> if the last char of temp  is return then add one to lineCount
> would be more efficient and give the same result as your delimCount.
> 
>> put fld colorList into temp  --a list of 12 colors
>> repeat with x = 1 to delimCount(temp,return) +1
>>    answer  line x of temp ? which will now do all 12 lines, even
>> if the last
>> one is empty
>> end repeat
> 
> All the best
> Thomas Fischer
> (Salzburg)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Oct 18 13:44:00 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:44:00 -0700
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax
	vs	TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <FFAF4FF8-E87C-44C3-A9A6-3543426C1274@openpartnership.net>
References: <OF35B56E59.B560395E-ONC125709A.00264755-C125709A.00281EC5@deutsche-boerse	.com>
	<p06230904bf7582b038ac@[192.168.1.101]>	<4350635D.2010005@tweedly.net>
	<43518545.2020308@fourthworld.com>	<F7FD743C-8B76-4724-B142-9AE15663EEB4@openpartnership.net>	<12110241756.20051016110646@ahsoftware.net>	<1CDDEA47-1954-46E0-BA3A-970C830008FC@openpartnership.net>	<4352ACCB.9070206@fourthworld.com>	<230950294.20051016165154@ahsoftware.net>	<43531A3B.2040404@fourthworld.com>	<17555202877.20051016233607@ahsoftware.net>
	<FFAF4FF8-E87C-44C3-A9A6-3543426C1274@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <43553460.8040801@fourthworld.com>

david bovill wrote:
> The most obvious example for me is at the handler level.

You make a strong argument for handler-level granularity for your 
workflow, but I believe that goes beyond what CVS was designed to handle.

As I understand it CVS is document-based, and source files often include 
more than one function.

I suppose one could write a tool that breaks down source files into a 
more granular form for your workflow, but before putting in the effort I 
would wonder why so many projects seem to work well with less granularity.

Besides, isn't there a feature for sharing handlers in Scripters Scrapbook?

Your argument may indicate why after so many years of discussion about a 
desire for CVS tools for Rev none have been built:

Everyone prefers a different level of granularity.  Some want to work by 
handler, others by control or script, others by stack.


I tend to break projects down by stack if only because I'm lazy and in 
the xTalk object model it seems a natural dividing line which makes it 
programmatically easy to break up, share, and re-integrate modules.  It 
also tends to follow functionality divisions, both in terms of UI and 
libraries, which works well for me as I often assign module owners based 
on a team member's mastery of or interest in a specific aspect of the app.

Stack-level granularity has worked well for me in teams from 2 to 20, 
but of course I don't claim it's necessarily optimal for everyone, just 
what's helped me get apps out the door in the shops I've worked in.


With a bit of effort it shouldn't be too hard to make a tool that 
atomizes stacks into whatever level best suits one's workflow.

Is the desire for such a tool prevalent enough to translate into a 
working tool?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  __________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Oct 18 13:49:02 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:49:02 -0700
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <43552F50.2030307@fourthworld.com>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>
	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>
	<a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>
	<43552F50.2030307@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1010488121.20051018104902@ahsoftware.net>

Richard-

Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 10:22:24 AM, you wrote:

> It would be interesting to hear from the makers of the Rev IDE about
> their debugging process.

> Could there be a relationship between a less-than-robust debugger and a
> buggy IDE built with it? ;)

Ouch.

Or the fact that the IDE isn't explictVars-safe. I've written up bugs
on the use of nonexistent variables in the IDE that explictly
declaring variables would have caught.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Oct 18 13:50:36 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:50:36 -0700
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <EE555764-36F5-4908-AD88-BA08667B8409@conncoll.edu>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>	<a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>	<CC443F5E-30AC-4233-B7A8-EDD2B45F0334@danshafer.com>
	<EE555764-36F5-4908-AD88-BA08667B8409@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <435535EC.2020809@fourthworld.com>

Charles Hartman wrote:
> 
> On Oct 18, 2005, at 1:01 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
> 
>>> 2.  The documentaion is still poor.
>>>
>> I disagree, but that is certainly a matter of judgment. I think the  
>> docs are somewhere between quite adequate and excellent depending  on 
>> the topic. Spotty to be sure, but "poor"? I don't think so.
> 
> 
> (as still a beginner who needs the Docs a lot) I agree that they're  
> very good -- it's just that they are *deathly* slow. Not for a  "filter 
> with" in the Dictionary (though I appreciate the D&M gadget  for that 
> anyway), but for the Topics.

Agreed.  Great content (faaaaaaaaaaaar more extensive than what comes in 
the box with Director and most other apps from the major publishers), 
but the shell's emphasis of using well-formed XML over a more efficient 
storage/indexing format creates unnecessary impediments relative to the 
lightning performance of Rev's native object model.

In the Files section of the MC IDE working group there's a shell a 
couple of us built which suck up the thousands of tiny Transcript 
Dictionary files and imports them into a single stack using Rev's native 
objects for storage -- mcTranscriptDict.mc.sit at:
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MC_IDE/files/Extras/>

If there's sufficient interest and joining the group to get one file 
seems annoying, I can mirror that file at a simpler location.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Oct 18 13:54:38 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:54:38 -0700
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <a05210607bf7adba1d3a8@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>	<a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>	<CC443F5E-30AC-4233-B7A8-EDD2B45F0334@danshafer.com>
	<a05210607bf7adba1d3a8@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <435536DE.1060204@fourthworld.com>

David Burgun wrote:
> You can't seem to get any information as to how many monitors are 
> attached, or how big the Desktop is, this affects production software 
> too. I was actually thinking of writing an external command to handle 
> multiple monitors, the thing that has been putting me off is that I'd 
> have to write it for Windows too, and I have no experience of 
> programming at that level under Windows.

Please consider adding your votes to this excellent suggestion from Ben 
Rubinstein:

<http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=193>

 From that BZ entry:

    My suggestion is that "the screenrect" behave as now
    for compatibility; and a new variant "the detailed
    screenrect" be introduced which returns one or more
    rectangles, one per line, being the coordinates of
    all current monitors, first line corresponding to
    the main monitor.

    While we're at it, my suggestion is that "the detailed
    screenrect" should also calculate its answer on the
    fly, rather than relying on the state of the monitor
    at startup.  I believe this too is now an issue on
    Windows, as it certainly is on Mac.


--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com



From stephen.lucas37 at btinternet.com  Tue Oct 18 13:58:35 2005
From: stephen.lucas37 at btinternet.com (Steve Lucas)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:58:35 +0100 (BST)
Subject: A New and Frustrated User
Message-ID: <20051018175836.66743.qmail@web86306.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hi All
 
I have been advised to contact yourselves for assistance in this matter.  I have recently purchased the enterprise edition of Revolution and trying hard to get to grips with scripting.  I feel that I am making progress, but my main area of concern is working with a database.
 
Can I be so bold as to ask someone to write a very short program for me so that I can see how all this scripting is put into place.  An ideal example would be for a personal record (Name, Address & Telephone) created using Microsoft Access, and then Revolution used to add new records to the database.  Revolution used to search for a particular record and Revolution used to edit an existing record.  These routines would clearly assist me in how these basic scripts are put together.
 
I have tried to use the Database Query Builder, but have only been successful in moving through the database.  Failing to update or even add new records.
 
I have recently purchased the altSQLite routine from Altuit in order to achieve the above.  I was beginning to get somewhere, but then when I installed the latest version of Revolution, this only completely froze my computer when I attempted to run a program containing the script altSQLite, which worked perfectly on the previous version of Revolution.  Unfortunately, Revolution and scripting is so new to me that I have yet to build any experience or competence, that I am able to use to fathom out why this particular problem occurred, just by purely upgrading to a newer version.
 
I hope that I am not being 'too cheaky' to ask for this type of assistance.  But I do know that once I can have a good understanding of the basics, I will be able to progress further by experimenting.
 
I thank you all for taking time out to read this, and even more of a thank you to those who respond in order to give a new user a step up in the revolution field of programming.
 
Best Regards
Steve Lucas



From mark at maseurope.net  Tue Oct 18 13:59:23 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:59:23 +0100
Subject: Silly Sort Question
In-Reply-To: <FFA7077E-81FF-4DD7-B278-40AAE99E951B@videotron.ca>
References: <FFA7077E-81FF-4DD7-B278-40AAE99E951B@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <3DBEF72E-926D-4560-9960-7A1755F10AFC@maseurope.net>

Gregory, you can use functions as part of your sort command, like this:


on mouseUp
   sort lines of fld 1 numeric by getMonthNum(word 1 of each)
end mouseUp

function getMonthNum aMonth
   return lineOffset(aMonth,the monthNames)
end getMonthNum


Cheers,

Mark

On 18 Oct 2005, at 17:04, Gregory Lypny wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
>     I have a simply twelve-line list with the name of a month as  
> the first word on each line.  The list is not in order, and I'd  
> like to sort it January to December using the monthNames.  Don't  
> know how.
>
>         sort lines of theList by first word in each [need  
> connection to the monthNames here]
>
>     Otherwise, I suppose a simple repeat loop, although clunky,  
> would do.
>
>     Regards,
>
>         Greg
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Oct 18 14:05:52 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:05:52 +0200
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <43552F50.2030307@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20051018173455.E45E78251FA@mail.runrev.com>


if I may say so, the pc version is still light years away from a ThinkC
debugger that run on my mac 128K+030 accelerator...

Like Constellation, I prefer my own editor(s)... 

What we really like, is the engine :)

I still use the revPropertyPalette or the MC property palette despite having
better.. but they come short lots of time... Each time movitates either a
rant or an improvement in these alternate tools...

There's Richard's [d|r]Evolution, Chipp's Alt everything, Constellation &
Company and even Nitrous styled mods for all your needs here! And something
else coming down the drain for sure ;) There's even FreeCard, the
pandemonicum thing, HyperArchive at mit, etc, etc, etc...

But best, there's your ability to make it your own IDE more than any other!

The Rev GUI is great - I couldn't have done better!

But meanwhile, you can definitely do great stuff with rev with 1 tenth of
the effort required elsewhere... If you find a limit, ask the list, if you
find a bug, post a bugzilla! You'll get 10 different solutions!

rev is evolving faster than you think! so is the quality...
took a while to start though...

cheers
Xavier


> David Burgun wrote:
> > Having said all that, it's still a good environment but it could be 
> > much better. I just wish they would do a major IDE bug fix release, 
> > especiallly with the Debugger. Putting this ahead of adding any new 
> > features.
> 
> It would be interesting to hear from the makers of the Rev 
> IDE about their debugging process.
> 
> Could there be a relationship between a less-than-robust 
> debugger and a buggy IDE built with it? ;)
> 
>      "If I had six hours to cut down a tree,
>       I'd spend the first three sharpening the saw."
>       - Benjamin Franklin
> 
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Media Corporation
>   __________________________________________________
>   Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Oct 18 14:07:37 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:07:37 -0700
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <20051018173455.E45E78251FA@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051018173455.E45E78251FA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <435539E9.9080108@fourthworld.com>

MisterX wrote:
> There's Richard's [d|r]Evolution, Chipp's Alt everything, Constellation &
> Company and even Nitrous styled mods for all your needs here! And something
> else coming down the drain for sure ;)

Amen.  As a scripted work, the Rev IDE offers literally infinite 
extensibility and customization.

The current and growing mix of tools out there let you pick and choose 
the parts you like and ignore the parts you don't.

It's almost like being able to make your own IDE from snap-together 
parts. :)


PS: It's "devolution", with a lower-case "d", to denote its 
knuckle-dragging philosophy. ;)

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  __________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 18 14:09:23 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:09:23 -0500
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <a05210607bf7adba1d3a8@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>	<a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>	<CC443F5E-30AC-4233-B7A8-EDD2B45F0334@danshafer.com>
	<a05210607bf7adba1d3a8@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <43553A53.6010601@hyperactivesw.com>

David Burgun wrote:
>> On Oct 18, 2005, at 8:36 AM, David Burgun wrote:
>>
>>> I mean I've been using RunRev now for about 2 years, but still:
>>>
>>> 1.  The debugger refuses to obey breakpoints.
>>
>> I see this sporadically as well. I wish I could find a pattern as then 
>> I'm sure RunRev could and would fix it.
> 
> 
> I have even had it refuse to breakpoint when I have inserted a 
> breakpoint statement. I reckon the reason is because of a scope problem, 
> since often stepping up to the place where a handler is called and then 
> stepping into the handler causes it to respond to breakpoint from then 
> on. The problem is that it is not always easy to do this, since some 
> handlers are called directly by RunRev and then is no calling statement 
> to step from.

I've written about this problem before, and I'm not sure there is an 
easy solution. I use both MetaCard and Revolution IDEs, and they respond 
differently to the same situation, which you correctly identify as a 
scope issue. But first, a definition of the problem:

Breakpoints are not always acknowledged if an error occurs in a script 
or handler that is not the one containing the breakpoint.

At least, I think that's it. For example, I was using a library that had 
been inserted into the message hierarchy. It contained an error. 
Breakpoints inserted into handlers that called this library would not break.

Mark Waddingham partially explained the reason to me -- it has to do 
with double error conditions in the debugger. When double errors occur, 
the IDE has two choices: loop recursively, or exit. Revolution chooses 
to exit. MetaCard, on the other hand, loops forever -- which means I 
must force-quit and restart the application (usually losing my work.) 
Given this choice, I think exiting is a better solution.

Ideally the engine would resolve the recursion and offer some kind of 
error information. I don't know enough about the debugger to know if 
this is possible. Commenting out the source of the error in my library 
script did cause breakpoints to resume working. The problem, of course, 
is that it is difficult to find the error in the first place because 
there is no information given about it. Locating the source of conflict 
is an exercise in patience.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 18 13:31:46 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:31:46 -0700
Subject: Arrays and Lists
In-Reply-To: <a05210603bf7a9a928a7c@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <BF7A7F92.2F282%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Sorry about missing the point.  I saw a couple bugs in your original and
thought that was the problem.

In this case you may want to create an array of array names created on the
fly.
I am going to use the term 'moniker'
step 1 - determine the array name to use for data storage (eg sArr1, sArr2)
the 's' stands for 'symbol'
step 2 - determine the array to use to store "sArr1", "sArr2" (eg globalArr)
the 'g' stands for 'global'
step 3 - add "sArr1" to the 'globalArr'  >the keys of globalArr = "sArr1",
"sArr2"

In this case, you might want to consider using the 'do'
--------------------- copy from here
on mouseup
  put quote into q
  put 1 into x
  put "cows give milk" into val  --value of the element
  do ("put "&q&val&q&" into globalArr["&q&("sArr"&x)&q&"]")
  --
  --now the "cows give milk" would be in globalArr["sArr1"]
  answer globalArr["sArr1"]

  put 2 into x
  put "goats do too" into val
  do ("put "&q&val&q&" into globalArr["&q&("sArr"&x)&q&"]")
  --now the "goats do too" would be in globalArr["sArr2"]
  answer globalArr["sArr2"]

  --the list of sArr instances would be
  answer the keys of globalArr
  answer the number of lines in ( the keys of globalArr)
  
end mouseup
--------------------------------- end copy from here

Jim Ault
LasVegas




On 10/18/05 5:45 AM, "David Burgun" <dburgun at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

> HI,
> 
> Thanks for the Sample, but I I think you may have misunderstood what
> I was trying to ask. I have got array's working just fine, but what I
> need is a dynamic list of arrays. I basically have a variable number
> of symbol tables (which are represented as Arrays), which is the
> reason I called them Array1, Array2, ....,  etc., since knowing their
> name is not helpful, since they don't have one, well not one that is
> defined at compile time anyway.
> 
> I have some Global Functions that maintain a list of Symbol table names, as
> so:
> NewSymbolTable theSymbolTableName   <-- Adds theSymbolTableName to
> the Global Symbol Table List.
> DeleteSymbolTableViaIndex theIndex  <-- Deletes the Symbol theIndex
> from the  Global Symbol Table List
> GetSymbolTableNameViaIndex theIndex <-- Returns the Symbol Table Name
> at the theIndex of the Global Symbol Table List
> GetSymbolTableCount <-- Returns the number of Symbol Tables currently
> in the  Global Symbol Table List.
> 
> Now what I would like to do is to be able to hold a list of arrays,
> and have functions:
> 
> GetSymbolTableArrayViaIndex theIndex <-- Returns an Array which
> represents the Symbol for the theIndex of the Global Symbol Table List
> SetSymbolTableArrayViaIndex theIndex <-- Set the Symbol Table for
> theIndex of the Global Symbol Table List.
> 
> I will also add functions to do the same via the Name of the Symbol
> Table in the  Global Symbol Table List.
> 
> 
> The problem is I don't know how to represent a list of Array's in
> TranScript/RunRev, so any pointers on that would be greatly
> appreciated.
> 
> All the Best
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 18 14:18:54 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:18:54 -0500
Subject: Silly Sort Question
In-Reply-To: <FFA7077E-81FF-4DD7-B278-40AAE99E951B@videotron.ca>
References: <FFA7077E-81FF-4DD7-B278-40AAE99E951B@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <43553C8E.90405@hyperactivesw.com>

Gregory Lypny wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
>     I have a simply twelve-line list with the name of a month as the  
> first word on each line.  The list is not in order, and I'd like to  
> sort it January to December using the monthNames.  Don't know how.
> 
>         sort lines of theList by first word in each [need connection  to 
> the monthNames here]
> 
>     Otherwise, I suppose a simple repeat loop, although clunky,  would do.

You can sort any container by using a custom function you write 
yourself. This should do it:

on mouseUp
   sort lines of fld 1 numeric by sortmonths(each)
end mouseUp

function sortmonths pMonth
   return lineoffset(pMonth, the monthnames)
end sortmonths


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From smithsm at samuelsmith.org  Tue Oct 18 14:55:32 2005
From: smithsm at samuelsmith.org (Samuel M. Smith)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:55:32 -0600
Subject: Open Process on OSX
In-Reply-To: <1129628375.32274.43.camel@rachmaninov>
References: <F41D8495-7EDC-46F6-91D0-108F87E0F902@samuelsmith.org>
	<1129628375.32274.43.camel@rachmaninov>
Message-ID: <070F182F-2A77-49BE-8D78-5F361A747D81@samuelsmith.org>

I can successfully open and read from a process but I can not get  
write to process to work on OS X 10.4.2
at least not all the way.

First if I open process with text then runrev converts newlines to  
carriage returns. This is
not correct for OS X. Especially unix processes which expect Unix  
newlines.

If I open with binary I can append newline characters numtochar(10)  
that will get sent OK.


The big problem is if I try to read in the process.

I am using a very simple test shell process

#!/bin/bash
#test.sh
echo "Hello there"
echo "Who are you?"
read DATA
echo "$DATA" > /Users/smithsm/Data/code/revolution/temp.txt
echo "$DATA"
echo "Goodbye"


This works from the command line in terminal

I put the process name into a text field named "Process"

I open it with

open process field "Process" for binary update

I read it with

read from process field "Process" until linefeed in 1 second
put the result into field "Result"
put it after field "BagRead"


I try to write with

put field "BagWrite" into bag
put bag & numtochar(10) into bag
write bag  to process field "Process"


The behavior is as follows:
I open the process ok
I read the first line ok
I read the second line ok
I write
I try to read the third line and the result is timed out
I never can read from the process once the process tries to read from  
runrev

The write was correctly received by the process because it gets  
written to the file in the process
However runrev doesn't manage reads by the process correctly since I  
can't read from the process by runrev
once the process tries to read from runrev.

Looks like a bug.

On 18 Oct, 2005, at 03:39, Mark Waddingham wrote:

> Hi Samuel,
>
> As of version 2.6.1 you can now use 'open process' with UNIX-style
> processes on OS X in the same way as on Unix/Linux and Windows.
>
> I'll make a note to update the documentation for the next release.
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Mark Waddingham ~ 36degrees at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com
>        Runtime Revolution ~ User-Centric Development Tools
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

**********************************************************************
Samuel M. Smith Ph.D.
2966 Fort Hill Road
Eagle Mountain, Utah 84043
801-768-2768 voice
801-768-2769 fax
**********************************************************************
"The greatest source of failure and unhappiness in the world is
giving up what we want most for what we want at the moment"
**********************************************************************



From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Tue Oct 18 14:59:02 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:59:02 -0700
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <CC443F5E-30AC-4233-B7A8-EDD2B45F0334@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <BF7A9406.39243%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Hello,

On 10/18/05 10:01 AM, "Dan Shafer" <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:

>> 4.  Windows in the IDE never open where you left them, especially
>> when you have 2 monitors.
> Yeah, this one's a real PITA. I can't ell you how many times I've had
> to use the message box to reposition windows that are on my no-longer-
> connected external monitor.

Drives me nuts too.  When at my office I am plugged in two monitors.  When I
am at Starbucks I just have the one.

I finally created a little stack that lets me pick an open stack and then
set the left and top.

If anybody wants it, send me an email off list.

Todd


-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From chris at altuit.com  Tue Oct 18 15:06:22 2005
From: chris at altuit.com (chris bohnert)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:06:22 -0500
Subject: OT: Wikis
In-Reply-To: <BF7A98B5.40120%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>
References: <BF7A98B5.40120%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>
Message-ID: <435547AE.5080508@altuit.com>

Hi Ruslan,

I think you've glossed over the technical issues with the SQLite engine 
simply to imply that "professionals" don't use sqlite.  So to that end 
here's a list of projects using sqlite:

<http://www.sqlite.org/cvstrac/wiki?p=SqliteUsers>

and for users who truly are interested in when to use SQLite in their 
projects  i recommend

<http://www.sqlite.org/whentouse.html>

Is sqlite perfect for everything, *no*.  Its strengths are similar to 
RunRevs.  It is best used for embedded cross-platform applications 
where  traditional client-server solutions are not available and in 
instances where simple administration, low maintenance and zero setup 
are a requirement.  Real world performance measures are no secret 
they're posted on the sqlite website at http://www.sqlite.org as well as 
techniques for optimizing sqlite specific issues and general bad schema 
design.  Its also a phenomenal tool for new users just getting their 
feet wet with SQL and interested in strong community support.

Where SQLite truly shines though is in the portability of data and the 
vast language support.  The altSqlite plugin may only work on PC/Mac/ 
and Linux, but the actual sqlite database file is completely 
independent.  It can be created on any of the vast number of platforms 
that support sqlite and transferred to a mac or pc and read without a 
problem.  It supports sundry languages from Ada to REXX and SmallTalk.  
Heck, RealBasic liked it so much they made it their default database and 
bought a company specializing in it.

To me, this is the definition of a professional enterprise tool; 
something I can use in an extremely heterogenous envirnoment to perform 
a task or solve a problem without fear that I've locked my customer into 
the migrational whims of a single vendor.

all the best
Chris Bohnert
Altuit, Inc.



Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:

>On 10/18/05 12:05 PM, "Marielle Lange" <mlange at lexicall.org> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>... At least, that's fine for personal use (that's early code, it
>>works, but not really seriously tested). For professional projects,
>>to guarantee perfect cross-platform compatibility, best is to use
>>Chipp's solution (altSQLlite - http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/
>>altSQLiteCover/default.htm).
>>
>>
>>Are other persons on this list interested in this kind of problem/
>>solution?
>>    
>>
>
>Just technical note:
>
>For professional solutions SQl Lite is NOT good. Point.
>
>You can easy see that some queries even on db in 100-200 MB
>Can take 30+ seconds...
>
>And you want put such speed  on WEB ???
>Where you site can access 5-10+ users in the same time?
>
>And what about then db in 1-10-20 Gb ?
>
>
>  
>



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Oct 18 15:10:00 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:10:00 -0700
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <BF7A9406.39243%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
References: <BF7A9406.39243%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <43554888.1090009@fourthworld.com>

 > I can't ell you how many times I've had to use the message box
 > to reposition windows that are on my no-longer-connected external
 > monitor.

That's working too hard for this lazy soul:  I made a DeskView plugin 
which, among other things, has an option for centering all offscreen 
windows in the current main display -- just right-click on the desktop 
portion of its window, and that and other options are available in a 
context menu.

DeskView is part of devolution, freely available at:
<http://www.fourthworld.com/products/devolution/index.html>

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  __________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Oct 18 15:15:42 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:15:42 -0700
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <435535EC.2020809@fourthworld.com>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>
	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>
	<a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>
	<CC443F5E-30AC-4233-B7A8-EDD2B45F0334@danshafer.com>
	<EE555764-36F5-4908-AD88-BA08667B8409@conncoll.edu>
	<435535EC.2020809@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <7115688158.20051018121542@ahsoftware.net>

Richard-

Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 10:50:36 AM, you wrote:

> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MC_IDE/files/Extras/>

> If there's sufficient interest and joining the group to get one file
> seems annoying, I can mirror that file at a simpler location.

Now *that's* a low-impact group - no messages between Apr 2004 and May
2005? And only 3 since then? OK - I joined up.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From david at dvglasgow.wanadoo.co.uk  Tue Oct 18 15:27:43 2005
From: david at dvglasgow.wanadoo.co.uk (David Glasgow)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:27:43 +0100
Subject: AW: finding and parsing internet shortcuts in Win
In-Reply-To: <20051018141557.E541E825189@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051018141557.E541E825189@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <1a86a4e19c8bc450a2ea72f4b0e57795@dvglasgow.wanadoo.co.uk>


On 18 Oct 2005, at 3:15 pm, "Thomas Fischer" 
<fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de> wrote:

> Window's Internet shortcuts have the invisible ending ".URL" much in 
> the same way as links have the invisible ending ".lnk". Both are not 
> shown with "Show Extensions" and neither with the properties, but if 
> you open a DOS box and type "dir" in the right directory, they will 
> show up. I don't know which other software will give you access to 
> these endings, though.

Thanks, Thomas.  The mist is slightly clearing.  The only "other 
software" I care about is Rev ;-)

Could I prevail upon someone using Windows to get the files or the 
detailed files in a folder including an internet shortcut to see 
whether this mysterious extension is seen by Rev?  If not, has anyone 
else any bright ideas how I could identify Internet Shortcuts?  I mean, 
how does Windows do it?

Best Wishes,

David Glasgow

http://www.i-psych.co.uk




From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Oct 18 15:30:25 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:30:25 -0700
Subject: A New and Frustrated User
In-Reply-To: <20051018175836.66743.qmail@web86306.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <20051018175836.66743.qmail@web86306.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <90C738AB-EB4E-4AEF-A2C8-6F172A5C4D86@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 18, 2005, at 10:58 AM, Steve Lucas wrote:

> I have recently purchased the altSQLite routine from Altuit in  
> order to achieve the above.  I was beginning to get somewhere, but  
> then when I installed the latest version of Revolution, this only  
> completely froze my computer when I attempted to run a program  
> containing the script altSQLite, which worked perfectly on the  
> previous version of Revolution.  Unfortunately, Revolution and  
> scripting is so new to me that I have yet to build any experience  
> or competence, that I am able to use to fathom out why this  
> particular problem occurred, just by purely upgrading to a newer  
> version.

Hi Steve,

Did you reinstall altSQLite after installing the new version of Rev?   
If the altSQLite database driver wasn't installed then you could  
encounter some funny problems.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Oct 18 15:51:59 2005
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:51:59 -0700
Subject: Make image controls from Rev Graphics?
In-Reply-To: <20051018155517.1D20982523B@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051018155517.1D20982523B@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <c68b3d31338ab9a691f1b66dd0e6fc0b@interisland.net>

Hi Todd,


> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:40:41 -0700
> From: Todd Geist <tg.lists at geistinteractive.com>
> Subject: Make image controls from Rev Graphics?
>
> I would like to turn some little graphic icons I made with Rev's 
> drawing
> tools into Images/Icons that I could attach to buttons for the 
> different
> button states.
>
> Is there any easy way to do this?

Sure. Checkout the the PI. You can assign a button state to the ID of 
an image. Can't imagine anything much easier than that.

All the best,
Ken N.



From sunshine at public.kherson.ua  Tue Oct 18 15:59:06 2005
From: sunshine at public.kherson.ua (Ruslan Zasukhin)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:59:06 +0300
Subject: OT: Wikis
In-Reply-To: <435547AE.5080508@altuit.com>
Message-ID: <BF7B2EBA.4022B%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>

On 10/18/05 10:06 PM, "chris bohnert" <chris at altuit.com> wrote:

Hi Chris,

> To me, this is the definition of a professional enterprise tool;

Oh man. Even mySQL is VERY careful to TRY name self enterprise tool,
As well as Postgre SQL.

Sql Lite exactly even do not touch and is not going touch that level.

> something I can use in an extremely heterogenous envirnoment to perform
> a task or solve a problem without fear that I've locked my customer into
> the migrational whims of a single vendor.

Again, SqlLite is good until your Application that embed it, play with db of
size 1-50MB. Or do some very simple queries.

I am not going start now discussion of technical problems of SqlLite, but
they are quite visible.

Again, If you just try generate simple db with one table and e.g. 10 fields,
And you try do something more complex e.g. DISTINCT, or GROUP BY you will
see results that I have mention.

If you will open Activity Monitor (OS X) and watch for usage of RAM you will
see that for one million records table (100MB) Sql Lite eat wow -- 600MB of
RAM. And it takes 30 seconds to resolve e.g. Simple DISTINCT on single
table.

It is very easy extrapolate results to db of size in 5-10-100 times bigger.

So problem is very simple: Like any simple db engine Sql Lite just play in
RAM. Until you application and your users work on SMALL databases which are
about 3-10 times less than installed RAM, it looks fast. AS only your query
will eat more RAM than you have you will hear beep-beep-beep...


-----------------
P.S. Let me say next:

Sql Lite is really cool, fantastic and phenomenal, and its author is great
develoepr. I say this because I have see sources of Sql Lite and see its
ideas.

The most interesting that practically nobody else do not use this way in
database development. But I have ask self: should we try repeat this in
Valentina database? And answer is NO. Because this way applies very strict
limitations. We will never use this way in Valentina database.

And I just warn that developers should see that's limitations very clearly.
If you going to play with DB e.g. of DVD size and do queries more complex
than simple SEARCH BY VALUE -- SqlLite exactly is not good choice.

P.S.2 

I have see one more fantastic database engine which have force me say wow!!!
:-) 

Its size is even 3 times less than SQl Lite. Only 100Kb.
It have in this size very good SQL, ODBC driver!!!, server, HTML interface
to server, and more. FANTASTIC from big letter.

I will not say its name, because it exactly will not help to Rev developers
A) it is RAM database
B) its price is in $80,000 - $300,000   yes this is not typo. :-)
    

P.S.3

But as say my friend and developer of our team -- miracles not exists.
And when we have start study that engines deeply we was able VERY EASY nock
down them with db size and queries that Valentina still is able eat in 0.1
of second. 

That is the difference guys. I think nobody want be catched by case when
your users says: Hey, I have db only in 300MB. Why my query takes few
minutes?!!? Why my HDD spins like a crazy?! :-)

-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]




From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Oct 18 16:13:46 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:13:46 -0500
Subject: Make image controls from Rev Graphics?
In-Reply-To: <BF7A6589.391D7%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
References: <BF7A6589.391D7%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <4355577A.9060605@chipp.com>

Todd,

I'm not exactly sure what it is you're trying to do. Perhaps you can 
explain a bit more what it is you want to accomplish. Using 'import 
snapshot' should be able to create an image from any rect on the card. 
HTH - Chipp

Todd Geist wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> 
> I would like to turn some little graphic icons I made with Rev's drawing
> tools into Images/Icons that I could attach to buttons for the different
> button states.
> 
> Is there any easy way to do this?
> 
> Thanks for your help
> Todd
> 
> 



From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Tue Oct 18 16:14:15 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:14:15 -0700
Subject: Make image controls from Rev Graphics?
In-Reply-To: <c68b3d31338ab9a691f1b66dd0e6fc0b@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <BF7AA5A7.3927A%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>




On 10/18/05 12:51 PM, "Ken Norris" <pixelbird at interisland.net> wrote:

> Sure. Checkout the the PI. You can assign a button state to the ID of
> an image. Can't imagine anything much easier than that.

Yes but how do I get a GRAPHIC to turn into an image?

Thanks

Todd



-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Oct 18 16:20:39 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:20:39 -0400
Subject: Make image controls from Rev Graphics?
In-Reply-To: <BF7AA5A7.3927A%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
References: <BF7AA5A7.3927A%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <e9a1fbbde40a58ece8bae01cf078e353@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 18, 2005, at 4:14 PM, Todd Geist wrote:

> Yes but how do I get a GRAPHIC to turn into an image?

You can always use the snapshot command.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 18 16:27:05 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:27:05 -0500
Subject: Open Process on OSX
In-Reply-To: <070F182F-2A77-49BE-8D78-5F361A747D81@samuelsmith.org>
References: <F41D8495-7EDC-46F6-91D0-108F87E0F902@samuelsmith.org>	<1129628375.32274.43.camel@rachmaninov>
	<070F182F-2A77-49BE-8D78-5F361A747D81@samuelsmith.org>
Message-ID: <43555A99.8060708@hyperactivesw.com>

Samuel M. Smith wrote:
> I can successfully open and read from a process but I can not get  write 
> to process to work on OS X 10.4.2
> at least not all the way.
> 
> First if I open process with text then runrev converts newlines to  
> carriage returns. This is
> not correct for OS X. Especially unix processes which expect Unix  
> newlines.
> 
> If I open with binary I can append newline characters numtochar(10)  
> that will get sent OK.
> 
> 
> The big problem is if I try to read in the process.
> 
> I am using a very simple test shell process
> 
> #!/bin/bash
> #test.sh
> echo "Hello there"
> echo "Who are you?"
> read DATA
> echo "$DATA" > /Users/smithsm/Data/code/revolution/temp.txt
> echo "$DATA"
> echo "Goodbye"
> 
> 
> This works from the command line in terminal
> 
> I put the process name into a text field named "Process"
> 
> I open it with
> 
> open process field "Process" for binary update
> 
> I read it with
> 
> read from process field "Process" until linefeed in 1 second
> put the result into field "Result"
> put it after field "BagRead"
> 
> 
> I try to write with
> 
> put field "BagWrite" into bag
> put bag & numtochar(10) into bag
> write bag  to process field "Process"
> 
> 
> The behavior is as follows:
> I open the process ok
> I read the first line ok
> I read the second line ok
> I write
> I try to read the third line and the result is timed out
> I never can read from the process once the process tries to read from  
> runrev
> 
> The write was correctly received by the process because it gets  written 
> to the file in the process
> However runrev doesn't manage reads by the process correctly since I  
> can't read from the process by runrev
> once the process tries to read from runrev.
> 
> Looks like a bug.

I think what is happening is that the pointer has moved to the end of 
the data and there is nothing left to read. I haven't specifically used 
the "open/read process" commands, but it looks like they function 
exactly the way opening and reading files does. If so, every read and 
write moves the current location of the pointer to the end of the string 
just read or written. When you read the first line, the pointer is at 
the end of that line. Reading the next line moves it to the end of the 
second line. Writing a line then moves it to the end of the third line. 
If you then issue another "read" command, you are at the end of the file 
and there is nothing to read.

To read the third line in this situation, you must include the "start" 
position in the "read" command, which should indicate the character 
offset of the third line. You'll have to parse this. If you are storing 
the parts you've read so far in a variable, the offset would be the 
length of the stored variable, for example.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From mlange at lexicall.org  Tue Oct 18 16:36:07 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:36:07 +0100
Subject: docWikis
Message-ID: <EABA4C82-1B01-47E5-8B88-147DC1C05DF0@lexicall.org>

Hi David,


> I've spent 5 months building a framework in RunRev that avoids a  
> lot of the problems and makes it really fast to develop new objects  
> and make them reusable.
>

Possible to know more about this? It seems that many persons on this  
list have done the same.

Again we are back to the same problem. Revolution Company has limited  
resources. Users on this list seems to be very resourceful. Why  
always direct the complaints against revolution? Why not start  
thinking about what *WE* users can do to improve this. Because we  
paid for a license means we shouldn't do the service? What matters  
most for you, the fact you paid for your license or the quality of  
the service you could get if each one of us gave a hand, as a  
function of his time, dedication, and level of skill?

This page: http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php? 
page=RevolutionSnippetTips
has been accessed 215 times. Numbers of persons who have taken the  
time to update it other than me (nothing more than cut and paste from  
a post on the list, 2 minutes of your time a week maximum): 0 (zero).

I would have more resources at my fingertips if more of *you users of  
this list ranting against the lack of good docs* decided to invest a  
bit more of *your* time in the creation of a good documentation.

  The documentation is really excellent... comparing well if not  
better than other documentation systems I have been using (Visual  
Basic or Visual Basic for Applications, for instance). With other  
languages, you can often find a book that make up for unclear  
documentation, but this comes with an extra price tag. To improve  
this documentation, there are two models: Extensive Collaboration and  
a free service... Everybody trying to get more than he gives, keeping  
everything he has developed for him/herself and a paying service.  
Choose the model you want for the years to come in this community...  
but if you choose the second, please spare me the rants against the  
doc. Dreamcard is less than $100 and Macromedia Studio 8 costs $400.  
What you get for less than $100 is *extraordinary*.

Marielle
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage:  http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Lexicall: http://lexicall.org
Revolution-education: http://revolution.lexicall.org




From smithsm at samuelsmith.org  Tue Oct 18 16:40:56 2005
From: smithsm at samuelsmith.org (Samuel M. Smith)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:40:56 -0600
Subject: Open Process on OSX
In-Reply-To: <43555A99.8060708@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <F41D8495-7EDC-46F6-91D0-108F87E0F902@samuelsmith.org>	<1129628375.32274.43.camel@rachmaninov>
	<070F182F-2A77-49BE-8D78-5F361A747D81@samuelsmith.org>
	<43555A99.8060708@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <B3AC90B9-0178-4076-9E65-ED254B9B422D@samuelsmith.org>



>> I never can read from the process once the process tries to read  
>> from  runrev
>> The write was correctly received by the process because it gets   
>> written to the file in the process
>> However runrev doesn't manage reads by the process correctly since  
>> I  can't read from the process by runrev
>> once the process tries to read from runrev.
>> Looks like a bug.
>>
>
> I think what is happening is that the pointer has moved to the end  
> of the data and there is nothing left to read. I haven't  
> specifically used the "open/read process" commands, but it looks  
> like they function exactly the way opening and reading files does.  
> If so, every read and write moves the current location of the  
> pointer to the end of the string just read or written. When you  
> read the first line, the pointer is at the end of that line.  
> Reading the next line moves it to the end of the second line.  
> Writing a line then moves it to the end of the third line. If you  
> then issue another "read" command, you are at the end of the file  
> and there is nothing to read.
>
> To read the third line in this situation, you must include the  
> "start" position in the "read" command, which should indicate the  
> character offset of the third line. You'll have to parse this. If  
> you are storing the parts you've read so far in a variable, the  
> offset would be the length of the stored variable, for example.

If so it would be make it really annoying to manage an interactive  
process.

I haven't had time to test your suggestion but I already did a test  
where the first thing I did was write to the process
before I read anything and the subsequent reads from the process  
worked fine. This behavior seems inconsistent with your suggestion.

I will test and verify however

thanks for the suggestion


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Tue Oct 18 16:42:52 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:42:52 -0400
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <435535EC.2020809@fourthworld.com>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>	<a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>	<CC443F5E-30AC-4233-B7A8-EDD2B45F0334@danshafer.com>
	<EE555764-36F5-4908-AD88-BA08667B8409@conncoll.edu>
	<435535EC.2020809@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <4B7D9C22-6B46-40A4-8D9A-BBBF170D805F@conncoll.edu>


On Oct 18, 2005, at 1:50 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>
> In the Files section of the MC IDE working group there's a shell a  
> couple of us built which suck up the thousands of tiny Transcript  
> Dictionary files and imports them into a single stack using Rev's  
> native objects for storage -- mcTranscriptDict.mc.sit at:
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MC_IDE/files/Extras/>
>
> If there's sufficient interest and joining the group to get one  
> file seems annoying, I can mirror that file at a simpler location.

Would that include the Topics documentation? If so, I'd find it  
helpful, because that's the impossibly slow part of Rev's docs. (If  
it's just the dictionary, then the M&M xscript gadget does it for  
me . . .)

Charles Hartman

From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Tue Oct 18 16:53:49 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:53:49 -0400
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <43554888.1090009@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF7A9406.39243%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
	<43554888.1090009@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <6BE1B829-6C19-41A6-9DF4-3A3B0B7DF1AB@conncoll.edu>

Dang,  I'd forgotten about that very handy piece of devolution. Now I  
have to have devolution running, again, too. I need six screens.

Charles Hartman

On Oct 18, 2005, at 3:10 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> > I can't ell you how many times I've had to use the message box
> > to reposition windows that are on my no-longer-connected external
> > monitor.
>
> That's working too hard for this lazy soul:  I made a DeskView  
> plugin which, among other things, has an option for centering all  
> offscreen windows in the current main display -- just right-click  
> on the desktop portion of its window, and that and other options  
> are available in a context menu.
>
> DeskView is part of devolution, freely available at:
> <http://www.fourthworld.com/products/devolution/index.html>
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  __________________________________________________
>  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Tue Oct 18 16:58:34 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:58:34 -0700
Subject: Make image controls from Rev Graphics?
In-Reply-To: <4355577A.9060605@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <BF7AB00A.39289%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>



On 10/18/05 1:13 PM, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:

> Todd,
> 
> I'm not exactly sure what it is you're trying to do. Perhaps you can
> explain a bit more what it is you want to accomplish. Using 'import
> snapshot' should be able to create an image from any rect on the card.

I have created some Arrows and Triangles etc, using Rev's drawing tools.
They are graphic controls. I would like to add them as Icons to buttons.  SO
I need to turn them into "images" right?

So can I just 'import snapshot' from the rectangle of the graphic?

Thanks

Todd

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Tue Oct 18 17:00:27 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:00:27 -0400
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <4B7D9C22-6B46-40A4-8D9A-BBBF170D805F@conncoll.edu>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>	<a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>	<CC443F5E-30AC-4233-B7A8-EDD2B45F0334@danshafer.com>
	<EE555764-36F5-4908-AD88-BA08667B8409@conncoll.edu>
	<435535EC.2020809@fourthworld.com>
	<4B7D9C22-6B46-40A4-8D9A-BBBF170D805F@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <90A514A0-F870-4333-A829-8A6445DDA704@conncoll.edu>


On Oct 18, 2005, at 4:42 PM, Charles Hartman wrote:

>
> On Oct 18, 2005, at 1:50 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>
>>
>> In the Files section of the MC IDE working group there's a shell a  
>> couple of us built which suck up the thousands of tiny Transcript  
>> Dictionary files and imports them into a single stack using Rev's  
>> native objects for storage -- mcTranscriptDict.mc.sit at:
>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MC_IDE/files/Extras/>
>>
>> If there's sufficient interest and joining the group to get one  
>> file seems annoying, I can mirror that file at a simpler location.
>>
>
> Would that include the Topics documentation? If so, I'd find it  
> helpful, because that's the impossibly slow part of Rev's docs. (If  
> it's just the dictionary, then the M&M xscript gadget does it for  
> me . . .)
Sorry, that's "D&M"
coh



From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Oct 18 17:04:31 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:04:31 -0500
Subject: Make image controls from Rev Graphics?
In-Reply-To: <BF7AB00A.39289%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
References: <BF7AB00A.39289%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <4355635F.1030902@chipp.com>

Yep, that's the ticket. Just:

put the windowID of this stack into tWinID
put the rect of graphic "myArrow" into tRect
import snapshot from rect tRect of window tWinID

should do the trick. It will create a bitmap of the graphic at the 
center of your card.

best,

Chipp


Todd Geist wrote:
> 
> On 10/18/05 1:13 PM, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Todd,
>>
>>I'm not exactly sure what it is you're trying to do. Perhaps you can
>>explain a bit more what it is you want to accomplish. Using 'import
>>snapshot' should be able to create an image from any rect on the card.
> 
> 
> I have created some Arrows and Triangles etc, using Rev's drawing tools.
> They are graphic controls. I would like to add them as Icons to buttons.  SO
> I need to turn them into "images" right?
> 
> So can I just 'import snapshot' from the rectangle of the graphic?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Todd
> 



From ianl at mac.com  Tue Oct 18 17:07:44 2005
From: ianl at mac.com (Ian Leigh)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:07:44 +0100
Subject: Dealing with filenames in a folder...
Message-ID: <5BFC3ECE-5582-4547-90C1-E61F3D8390B1@mac.com>

I am, as an attempt to learn Dreamcard, writing a frontend to MAME. I  
have a fair idea of what I need to do, just doing it is a bit of a  
struggle at the moment.

The user points to where their ROM folder is. What I then need to do  
is take each filename that ends with .ZIP and convert that into a  
full title. At the moment I am cross referencing the filename with a  
text file containing the information I need. Displaying the filenames  
in a field is easy using the files command and filter to find  
the .zips. Because the filename isn't very descriptive I want to use  
the descriptions in the text file instead.

So far I have been trying the following....

global allgamedata, ROMlist, ROMtitlelist

on mouseUp
   local counter, titletoscan, n
   answer folder "Where are your ROMs?"
   put it into field "ROMlocation"
   set the defaultfolder to field "ROMlocation"
   put the files into ROMlist
   filter ROMlist with ".zip"
   put ROMlist into field "gamedescription"
   repeat with n = 1 to the number of lines in ROMlist
     put line n of ROMlist into titletoscan
     put titletoscan into field "filetoscan"
     add scantitle(titletoscan) to ROMtitlelist
   end repeat
   put ROMtitlelist into field "availablegames"

end mouseUp

function scantitle titletoscan
   local gametitle, returnedpos
   put lineoffset("$info=" & titletoscan, allgamedata) into returnedpos
   put line returnedpos + 2 of allgamedata into gametitle
   return gametitle
end scantitle

The problem is that the first item in ROMlist is .DSstore and the  
whole thing seems to stop there. I could do with a little help if  
anyone can assist!

I have been thinking perhaps I should take the filename one at a time  
and then create an array to store each game into but don't know if  
that is really necessary in rev. The reason this has to be done is  
that MAME supports many thousands of roms but the user may only have  
a handful.

Many thanks

Ian

From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Oct 18 17:23:07 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:23:07 -0500
Subject: Dealing with filenames in a folder...
In-Reply-To: <5BFC3ECE-5582-4547-90C1-E61F3D8390B1@mac.com>
References: <5BFC3ECE-5582-4547-90C1-E61F3D8390B1@mac.com>
Message-ID: <435567BB.9000106@chipp.com>

Ian,

You need to:

filter ROMlist with "*.zip"

best,

Chipp

Ian Leigh wrote:
> I am, as an attempt to learn Dreamcard, writing a frontend to MAME. I  
> have a fair idea of what I need to do, just doing it is a bit of a  
> struggle at the moment.
> 
> The user points to where their ROM folder is. What I then need to do  is 
> take each filename that ends with .ZIP and convert that into a  full 
> title. At the moment I am cross referencing the filename with a  text 
> file containing the information I need. Displaying the filenames  in a 
> field is easy using the files command and filter to find  the .zips. 
> Because the filename isn't very descriptive I want to use  the 
> descriptions in the text file instead.
> 
> So far I have been trying the following....
> 
> global allgamedata, ROMlist, ROMtitlelist
> 
> on mouseUp
>   local counter, titletoscan, n
>   answer folder "Where are your ROMs?"
>   put it into field "ROMlocation"
>   set the defaultfolder to field "ROMlocation"
>   put the files into ROMlist
>   filter ROMlist with ".zip"
>   put ROMlist into field "gamedescription"
>   repeat with n = 1 to the number of lines in ROMlist
>     put line n of ROMlist into titletoscan
>     put titletoscan into field "filetoscan"
>     add scantitle(titletoscan) to ROMtitlelist
>   end repeat
>   put ROMtitlelist into field "availablegames"
> 
> end mouseUp
> 
> function scantitle titletoscan
>   local gametitle, returnedpos
>   put lineoffset("$info=" & titletoscan, allgamedata) into returnedpos
>   put line returnedpos + 2 of allgamedata into gametitle
>   return gametitle
> end scantitle
> 
> The problem is that the first item in ROMlist is .DSstore and the  whole 
> thing seems to stop there. I could do with a little help if  anyone can 
> assist!
> 
> I have been thinking perhaps I should take the filename one at a time  
> and then create an array to store each game into but don't know if  that 
> is really necessary in rev. The reason this has to be done is  that MAME 
> supports many thousands of roms but the user may only have  a handful.
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Ian
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Tue Oct 18 18:02:27 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:02:27 +0100
Subject: First-Time Initialization problem
In-Reply-To: <4355635F.1030902@chipp.com>
References: <BF7AB00A.39289%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
	<4355635F.1030902@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <a0521060abf7b19074069@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

Here's something that has been driving me mad for a while now, I've 
managed to work-around it up until now, but now I'd like to know if 
there is a solution to it. I'd like to be able to run an 
Initialization handler in each card of a stack IF AND ONLY IF this is 
the first time the stack has been loaded.

I've tried call sorts to acheive this, using preOpenStack, openStack, 
preOpenCard, openCard, but none of it seems to work.

At the moment I have the following setup:

Script of card 1:

on openStack

send "StackInitialize" to this stack

pass openStack
end openStack

In the Stack Script:

on StackInitialize
local myIndex
local mySaveCard

repeat with myIndex = 1 to the number of cards in this stack
go to card myIndex of this stack
if the script of card myIndex of this stack contains "CardInitialize" then
   send "CardInitialize" to card myIndex of this stack
end if
go to card 1
end StackInitialize


This results in VERY strange happenings! Firstly the CardInitialize 
handler in each card gets called twice, I seem to remember that that 
the openStack handler in card 1 gets called twice? Is this correct? 
Secondly, the CardInitialize gets called when I do a goto card 1 from 
card 2. This seems to suggest that the openStack handler is getting 
called when the card is selected?

I've tried to debug this, but the debugger is SOOOOOOO flakey that it 
dies every time. Using answer dialogs don't help since they change 
the scope too and cause crashes.

Can anyone give me some advice on this?

Thanks a lot
All the Best
Dave


From revdan at danshafer.com  Tue Oct 18 18:32:31 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:32:31 -0700
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <43554888.1090009@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF7A9406.39243%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
	<43554888.1090009@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <9FA4B914-246C-44DF-AFFF-93D3A9F2A1A3@danshafer.com>

Duh.

I use Chipp's Altuit toolbar with its MiniMe (which as I recall was  
inspired by your DeskView plugin) and I JUST NOW discovered that he  
has that same feature built in. Yeesh. Should have looked at it long  
ago.

Dan

On Oct 18, 2005, at 12:10 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> > I can't ell you how many times I've had to use the message box
> > to reposition windows that are on my no-longer-connected external
> > monitor.
>
> That's working too hard for this lazy soul:  I made a DeskView  
> plugin which, among other things, has an option for centering all  
> offscreen windows in the current main display -- just right-click  
> on the desktop portion of its window, and that and other options  
> are available in a context menu.
>
> DeskView is part of devolution, freely available at:
> <http://www.fourthworld.com/products/devolution/index.html>
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  __________________________________________________
>  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Oct 18 18:35:38 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:35:38 -0400
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <9FA4B914-246C-44DF-AFFF-93D3A9F2A1A3@danshafer.com>
References: <BF7A9406.39243%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
	<43554888.1090009@fourthworld.com>
	<9FA4B914-246C-44DF-AFFF-93D3A9F2A1A3@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <05e1a8eb5895b358043e9dabd0699c65@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 18, 2005, at 6:32 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> I use Chipp's Altuit toolbar with its MiniMe (which as I recall was 
> inspired by your DeskView plugin) and I JUST NOW discovered that he 
> has that same feature built in. Yeesh. Should have looked at it long 
> ago.

Or if you have D&M's Object Gadget, you can right click a stack name in 
the list and call it to center screen from the context menu.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Oct 18 18:39:57 2005
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:39:57 -0700
Subject: Make image controls from Rev Graphics?
In-Reply-To: <20051018203532.218E082533B@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051018203532.218E082533B@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <b6aedbdd7689789055a98ea6b84767cf@interisland.net>


Howdy,

> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:13:46 -0500
> From: Chipp Walters <chipp at chipp.com>
> Subject: Re: Make image controls from Rev Graphics?
>
> I'm not exactly sure what it is you're trying to do. Perhaps you can
> explain a bit more what it is you want to accomplish. Using 'import
> snapshot' should be able to create an image from any rect on the card.

Yeah, that. Using the rect ot the graphic created with the paint tools. 
sorry I wasn't more complete.

All the best,
Ken N.



From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Tue Oct 18 19:16:49 2005
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:16:49 -0500
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>
	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>
	<a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <AA3CDA2E-A8F4-40A6-988D-31942A6E5E71@daniels-mara.com>

Friends and neighbors...

First I want to thank all the folks who are voicing their excitement  
about the products from Daniels & Mara--mostly Constellation at this  
point. We've listened to suggestions and like to try different  
approaches to problem solving. We have had a much longer pre-release  
period than I ever thought possible, because we got so many great  
recommendations and ideas from the early adopters.

I wanted to say a few words about debugging a debugger (without a  
debugger) and tracking breakpoints.

When you're writing a script editor that lets you set breakpoints,  
you quickly realize: very script could have breakpoints and every  
user action could necessitate changing them. That means every time  
someone types a char, as the developer of the script editor, you have  
to be ready to update where the breakpoints should NOW be. If you  
test for EVERYTHING, your editor will be hard to type in due to  
performance issues. And what about undo or cut or paste? It seems  
like a life's work to get the right balance. Not easy.

Break Points Part Deux

We found the Rev engine had difficulty "coming back" from a "Step  
Into" another handler. So I created "ghost breakpoints" just on the  
other side of every handler call, in the event the user when down a  
rabbit hole into that other handler that was being called. The ghosts  
kept my debug session alive after the engine had given up. Since they  
were "ghosts" the user couldn't see them--that's the fun part about  
having your own script editor. The current Rev script editor has to  
deal with these same anomalies from the engine.

After a couple hundred test cycles and hundreds of suggestions on  
design and UI, I have decided that no two people want the same IDE.  
The diversity is staggering and heartening at the same time. I  
decided to enjoy the process of change and forget about having the  
perfect product or being the perfect programmer. Constellation  
evolves...as do we all with or without our consent or vote.

Luckily, I'm like Andre...some times I just like to open up  
Constellation and look at it!

Best,

Jerry

http://daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm
Check out the tutorials to see it work.

On Oct 18, 2005, at 10:36 AM, David Burgun wrote:

>> True and the real value of Rev is that the tools are built in the  
>> language so we can enhance the core product - the more  
>> contributions like Lord Daniels the better!
>>
>> On 18 Oct 2005, at 01:15, Dan Shafer wrote:
>>
>>
>>> A couple of you were kind enough to point out that in my  
>>> exuberant endorsement of Jerry Daniels' wonderful Constellation  
>>> Rev IDE, I came off sounding a bit like the built-in, out-of-the- 
>>> box Rev IDE was a piece of crap. Let me set the record straight.  
>>> It's wonderful. It has flaws and rough edges and quirks that  
>>> sometimes confuse newbies and even oldies. But it's still really  
>>> a great product.
>>>
>
> As a production tool to be used by professionals it sucks a fair  
> bit in my opinion! Other development environments suck too or did  
> during their evolution anyway. For instance a lot of CodeWarrior  
> releases had the same old bugs in them release after release, some  
> of them were not fixed for years. Yet the latest version always had  
> loads of new features. I see this mirrored in RunRev too.
>
> I mean I've been using RunRev now for about 2 years, but still:
>
> 1.  The debugger refuses to obey breakpoints.
> 2.  The documentaion is still poor.
> 3.  It crashes or causes me to ForceQuit at 3 times a day on  
> average when I am using it full time for development.
> 4.  Windows in the IDE never open where you left them, especially  
> when you have 2 monitors.
> 5.  The Script Editor does beswick at least 3 times a day, forcing  
> me to restart RunRev.
>
> There are loads more like this, but these are the things that  
> really get my goat. I reckon I waste at least an hour a day  
> fighting IDE and/or Documentation problems.
>
> Having said all that, it's still a good environment but it could be  
> much better. I just wish they would do a major IDE bug fix release,  
> especiallly with the Debugger. Putting this ahead of adding any new  
> features.
>
> All the Best
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Tue Oct 18 19:33:27 2005
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:33:27 -0500
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <F6737049-0F96-48B9-83D9-8C33E6C22C42@maseurope.net>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>
	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>
	<F6737049-0F96-48B9-83D9-8C33E6C22C42@maseurope.net>
Message-ID: <C233A2EA-1509-4567-92E3-0B49BCA63735@daniels-mara.com>

Guys...

There's actually a tutorial on this very topic. It's under the  
Tutorials tab in the Info & Docs window. It's called "Three Editing  
Modes" and it's a link to a QuickTime movie.

Best,

Jerry

http://daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm
Check out the tutorials to see it work.


On Oct 18, 2005, at 10:59 AM, Mark Smith wrote:

> Well, you can set Constellation to show 'script only', in which  
> case when you choose tp inspect properties, the Rev inspector will  
> open, while your scripts will still open in Constellation. Ypu can  
> have it the other way round too. Just check the appropriate button  
> in Constellations top left corner...
>
>
> Mark
>
> On 18 Oct 2005, at 11:33, David Bovill wrote:
>
>
>> True and the real value of Rev is that the tools are built in the  
>> language so we can enhance the core product - the more  
>> contributions like Lord Daniels the better!
>>
>> On 18 Oct 2005, at 01:15, Dan Shafer wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> A couple of you were kind enough to point out that in my  
>>> exuberant endorsement of Jerry Daniels' wonderful Constellation  
>>> Rev IDE, I came off sounding a bit like the built-in, out-of-the- 
>>> box Rev IDE was a piece of crap. Let me set the record straight.  
>>> It's wonderful. It has flaws and rough edges and quirks that  
>>> sometimes confuse newbies and even oldies. But it's still really  
>>> a great product.
>>>
>>> It's just that Constellation learned from what the Rev IDE  
>>> designers did one way and created a new way that I personally  
>>> find more usable and seamless.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Bought a copy, and already I'd like to "improve it" :)  
>> particularly to switch more easily between Constellation and Rev  
>> IDE - need to be able to get at Rev's fab Geometry Manager more  
>> easily?
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Oct 18 18:18:35 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:18:35 -0700
Subject: First-Time Initialization problem
In-Reply-To: <a0521060abf7b19074069@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <BF7AC2CB.23120%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, David Burgun  wrote:

> Here's something that has been driving me mad for a while now, I've
> managed to work-around it up until now, but now I'd like to know if
> there is a solution to it. I'd like to be able to run an
> Initialization handler in each card of a stack IF AND ONLY IF this is
> the first time the stack has been loaded.
> ...
> Can anyone give me some advice on this?

One way to do it is to set a property on each card every first time it is
viewed, and then check the property whenever you revisit the card, something
like:

  on preOpenCard
    if not the uInitDone of me then
       doMyInitRoutines
       set the uInitDone of me to true
    end if
    doOtherStuff
    ...
  end preOpenCard

You may have to account for other behavior depending on whether your stack
can be saved at any time during its use as properties (init values) will be
saved with the stack.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From tominjapan at excite.com  Tue Oct 18 19:51:04 2005
From: tominjapan at excite.com (Thomas McCarthy)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:51:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Sound volume unexpectedly decreasing
Message-ID: <20051018235104.64132BC8F@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com>


This is a little off the top of my head (extremely busy now)...
I was testing out an app of mine on Windows. It plays sound--both audioclips and files. (some of the clips have had their volumes reduced in the Application Browser)

Things were going well, then the sound volume dropped noticeably. I then recalled an email I got from a friend who also used the app saying something like this had happened to him as well.

Are there any issues I should be aware of? Should I be resetting the volume after playing clips?

many thanks,
tm

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!




From mark at maseurope.net  Tue Oct 18 19:52:25 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 00:52:25 +0100
Subject: Dealing with filenames in a folder...
In-Reply-To: <5BFC3ECE-5582-4547-90C1-E61F3D8390B1@mac.com>
References: <5BFC3ECE-5582-4547-90C1-E61F3D8390B1@mac.com>
Message-ID: <393634BD-0AAF-4751-B1F3-402FCADEF518@maseurope.net>

You could just filter again

filter ROMlist without ".*" -- no asterisk at the beginning limits  
the filter to excluding lines that start with a period



Mark

On 18 Oct 2005, at 22:07, Ian Leigh wrote:

> I am, as an attempt to learn Dreamcard, writing a frontend to MAME.  
> I have a fair idea of what I need to do, just doing it is a bit of  
> a struggle at the moment.
>
> The user points to where their ROM folder is. What I then need to  
> do is take each filename that ends with .ZIP and convert that into  
> a full title. At the moment I am cross referencing the filename  
> with a text file containing the information I need. Displaying the  
> filenames in a field is easy using the files command and filter to  
> find the .zips. Because the filename isn't very descriptive I want  
> to use the descriptions in the text file instead.
>
> So far I have been trying the following....
>
> global allgamedata, ROMlist, ROMtitlelist
>
> on mouseUp
>   local counter, titletoscan, n
>   answer folder "Where are your ROMs?"
>   put it into field "ROMlocation"
>   set the defaultfolder to field "ROMlocation"
>   put the files into ROMlist
>   filter ROMlist with ".zip"
>   put ROMlist into field "gamedescription"
>   repeat with n = 1 to the number of lines in ROMlist
>     put line n of ROMlist into titletoscan
>     put titletoscan into field "filetoscan"
>     add scantitle(titletoscan) to ROMtitlelist
>   end repeat
>   put ROMtitlelist into field "availablegames"
>
> end mouseUp
>
> function scantitle titletoscan
>   local gametitle, returnedpos
>   put lineoffset("$info=" & titletoscan, allgamedata) into returnedpos
>   put line returnedpos + 2 of allgamedata into gametitle
>   return gametitle
> end scantitle
>
> The problem is that the first item in ROMlist is .DSstore and the  
> whole thing seems to stop there. I could do with a little help if  
> anyone can assist!
>
> I have been thinking perhaps I should take the filename one at a  
> time and then create an array to store each game into but don't  
> know if that is really necessary in rev. The reason this has to be  
> done is that MAME supports many thousands of roms but the user may  
> only have a handful.
>
> Many thanks
>
> Ian
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From rishi at puredata.com.au  Tue Oct 18 20:45:45 2005
From: rishi at puredata.com.au (Rishi Viner)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:45:45 +1000
Subject: ANN: Constellation Script & Property Editor 1.0.0 Released
In-Reply-To: <DCD77F77-9114-4BF8-A69B-6632F773BC9F@writeme.com>
References: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
	<F6F86350-0045-4FA9-945D-54BEED9F3988@daniels-mara.com>
	<DCD77F77-9114-4BF8-A69B-6632F773BC9F@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <200510191045.45595.rishi@puredata.com.au>

Awww, no linux version... :-(

I live in the hope that one day someone will put this much time and effort 
into making things streamlined and logical for the Linux users... dreaming 
on...

Rishi.

> > Colleagues and Friends...
> >
> > - 31,299 lines of code
> > - 1,099 handlers
> > - 357 tested versions
> > - a script & property editor with tabbed browsing in one window
> > - 49 preferences
> >
> > It is my pleasure to inform you that the 1.0.0 version of
> > Constellation has just been released and is available for purchase
> > at this URL:
> >
> >     http://daniels-mara.com/products

-- 
Rishi Viner
--------------
Australia

www.puredata.com.au


From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Tue Oct 18 21:04:39 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:04:39 -0700
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <EABA4C82-1B01-47E5-8B88-147DC1C05DF0@lexicall.org>
References: <EABA4C82-1B01-47E5-8B88-147DC1C05DF0@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <p06200700bf7b484d3f5c@[10.0.1.2]>

Hi Marielle,

I visited your site, and bookmarked it. I am certainly sympathetic to 
your goals and philosophical position. Rev users generally seem 
sympathetic to the manufacturer -- wish it well, want it to succeed. 
Me too.

My initial reaction -- what's there is admirable. The documentation 
you have written is somewhat clearer and less terse than Rev's native 
documentation, with more examples. Of course the number of items and 
issues documented is relatively small. I didn't spend a lot of time 
exploring -- I might have overlooked something. I'm sorry you're 
disappointed with the overall reaction so far.

Beyond that, I wonder if initial visitors will be daunted by the task 
of re-writing Rev's native documentation and moving it to your wiki, 
while simultaneously improving and supplementing the native 
documentation. If Rev's native documentation can't be moved wholesale 
to a wiki, with its hyperlinks, "see also" links, and so on, intact, 
for the sake of wiki-type improving and supplementing, I fear too 
many potential wiki users will be too daunted, and it just won't 
catch on.

I hope I'm wrong, though.


Tim

Marielle wrote:

>Again we are back to the same problem. Revolution Company has 
>limited resources. Users on this list seems to be very resourceful. 
>Why always direct the complaints against revolution? Why not start 
>thinking about what *WE* users can do to improve this. Because we 
>paid for a license means we shouldn't do the service? What matters 
>most for you, the fact you paid for your license or the quality of 
>the service you could get if each one of us gave a hand, as a 
>function of his time, dedication, and level of skill?
>
>This page: 
>http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=RevolutionSnippetTips
>has been accessed 215 times. Numbers of persons who have taken the 
>time to update it other than me (nothing more than cut and paste 
>from a post on the list, 2 minutes of your time a week maximum): 0 
>(zero).
>
>I would have more resources at my fingertips if more of *you users 
>of this list ranting against the lack of good docs* decided to 
>invest a bit more of *your* time in the creation of a good 
>documentation.
>
>  The documentation is really excellent... comparing well if not 
>better than other documentation systems I have been using (Visual 
>Basic or Visual Basic for Applications, for instance). With other 
>languages, you can often find a book that make up for unclear 
>documentation, but this comes with an extra price tag. To improve 
>this documentation, there are two models: Extensive Collaboration 
>and a free service... Everybody trying to get more than he gives, 
>keeping everything he has developed for him/herself and a paying 
>service. Choose the model you want for the years to come in this 
>community... but if you choose the second, please spare me the rants 
>against the doc. Dreamcard is less than $100 and Macromedia Studio 8 
>costs $400. What you get for less than $100 is *extraordinary*.
>
>Marielle



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Oct 18 22:36:13 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:36:13 -0700
Subject: ANN: Constellation Script & Property Editor 1.0.0 Released
In-Reply-To: <200510191045.45595.rishi@puredata.com.au>
References: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>	<F6F86350-0045-4FA9-945D-54BEED9F3988@daniels-mara.com>	<DCD77F77-9114-4BF8-A69B-6632F773BC9F@writeme.com>
	<200510191045.45595.rishi@puredata.com.au>
Message-ID: <4355B11D.5080207@fourthworld.com>

Rishi Viner wrote:
> Awww, no linux version... :-(
> 
> I live in the hope that one day someone will put this much time and effort 
> into making things streamlined and logical for the Linux users... dreaming 
> on...

It's all Transcript -- why wouldn't it work any platform Rev supports?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From kgjaqua1 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Oct 18 22:37:45 2005
From: kgjaqua1 at sbcglobal.net (Kathy Jaqua)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:37:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Colors within Colors
Message-ID: <20051019023745.49854.qmail@web81101.mail.yahoo.com>


A Big Thanks to  Martin Baxter for this info.

Kathy Graves Jaqua
A Wildest Dream
kgjaqua1 at sbcglobal.net






From kgjaqua1 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Oct 18 22:46:09 2005
From: kgjaqua1 at sbcglobal.net (Kathy Jaqua)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:46:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Lock that Kick... Hey
Message-ID: <20051019024609.45491.qmail@web81104.mail.yahoo.com>


Hi Alls y'all,

Does anyone have a simple password script. I am hiding
the text fields until a password is given. The fields
are on 1 card stack. The script will be in a button
called  "Lock".   My brain is locked up and I can't
seem to come up with one.

Thanks,

Kathy Graves Jaqua
A  Wildest Dream Software
Kgjaqua1 at sbcGlobal.net




From Cubist at aol.com  Tue Oct 18 22:59:26 2005
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:59:26 EDT
Subject: Function to break apart a Long Name?
Message-ID: <1fc.c8888c6.3087108e@aol.com>

sez revolution at jaedworks.com:
>At 4:00 PM +0100 10/17/2005, David Burgun wrote:
>>Does anyone know of a function that will extract name of the 
>>Control, Group, Card and Stack from a long name string?
>>e.g. I have a string of the form:
>>control "A" of group "B" of card "C" of stack "D"
>>And I would like to have:
>>
>>local myControlName  = A
>>local myGroupName = B
>>local myCardName = C
>>local myStackName = D
>
>I'd use the short name in conjunction with the owner for this:
>
>   -- "myControl" is control "A" of group "B" of card "C" of stack "D"
>   put the short name of myControl into myControlName
>   put the short name of the owner of myControl into myGroupName
>   put the short name of the owner of the owner of myControl into myCardName
>   put the short name of the owner of the owner of the owner of 
>myControl into myStackName
   Problem: If you use this on something that *isn't* in a group, myGroupName 
will end up being the name of a card; myCardName will be the stack name; and 
I'm not sure *what* myStackName will end up as. Also, what happens to the long 
name of a control that lives in a *substack*?


From smithsm at samuelsmith.org  Tue Oct 18 23:05:30 2005
From: smithsm at samuelsmith.org (Samuel M. Smith)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:05:30 -0600
Subject: Open Process on OSX
In-Reply-To: <1129628375.32274.43.camel@rachmaninov>
References: <F41D8495-7EDC-46F6-91D0-108F87E0F902@samuelsmith.org>
	<1129628375.32274.43.camel@rachmaninov>
Message-ID: <93837558-554E-4DD0-946C-70031C0B1A87@samuelsmith.org>

I tried this suggestion but no change in behavior. I think it is a bug.
Since you work for RunRev do you concur? and what will it take to get  
a fix?
Attached is my test stack if that if of any help in verifying.

>
> I think what is happening is that the pointer has moved to the end  
> of the data and there is nothing left to read. I haven't  
> specifically used the "open/read process" commands, but it looks  
> like they function exactly the way opening and reading files does.  
> If so, every read and write moves the current location of the  
> pointer to the end of the string just read or written. When you  
> read the first line, the pointer is at the end of that line.  
> Reading the next line moves it to the end of the second line.  
> Writing a line then moves it to the end of the third line. If you  
> then issue another "read" command, you are at the end of the file  
> and there is nothing to read.
>
> To read the third line in this situation, you must include the  
> "start" position in the "read" command, which should indicate the  
> character offset of the third line. You'll have to parse this. If  
> you are storing the parts you've read so far in a variable, the  
> offset would be the length of the stored variable, for example.


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Oct 18 23:42:25 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:42:25 -0700
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <AA3CDA2E-A8F4-40A6-988D-31942A6E5E71@daniels-mara.com>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>
	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>
	<a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>
	<AA3CDA2E-A8F4-40A6-988D-31942A6E5E71@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <10346090835.20051018204225@ahsoftware.net>

Jerry-

Tuesday, October 18, 2005, 4:16:49 PM, you wrote:

> After a couple hundred test cycles and hundreds of suggestions on
> design and UI, I have decided that no two people want the same IDE.

...ain't it the truth...

...and in a funny sort of way, I kind of like it like that. I'm fully
into celebrating diversity, not just living with it. If everyone
thought like me I'd never learn anything. Meanwhile I'm hanging out
here on the list and constantly learning new ways of thinking about
things. And having a blast.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Oct 19 00:43:03 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:43:03 -0500
Subject: First-Time Initialization problem
In-Reply-To: <a0521060abf7b19074069@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <BF7AB00A.39289%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>	<4355635F.1030902@chipp.com>
	<a0521060abf7b19074069@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <4355CED7.1060705@chipp.com>

Hi David,

If I wanted to init something on a card and run it only once, I'd use 
local variables. This way they're automatically wiped clean on relaunch.

So, in the card script I'd put:

local lNotFirstTime

on openCard
   if lNotFirstTime is not true then
      --> DO INIT STUFF
      put true into lNotFirstTime
   end if
end openCard

Be aware, each time you EDIT the script of the card, you will destroy 
the lNotFirstTime local variable, so it will run your init routines.

-Chipp



From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Oct 19 00:48:37 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:48:37 -0500
Subject: Lock that Kick... Hey
In-Reply-To: <20051019024609.45491.qmail@web81104.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051019024609.45491.qmail@web81104.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4355D025.1010904@chipp.com>

Hi Kathy,

Check out:
"Using asteriks for passwords in a field"

at
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/UsefulScripts.htm

I think there may be even some more elaborate ones out there, but this 
one works fine for me. You can check the rev Archives for others.

best,

Chipp

Kathy Jaqua wrote:
> Hi Alls y'all,
> 
> Does anyone have a simple password script. I am hiding
> the text fields until a password is given. The fields
> are on 1 card stack. The script will be in a button
> called  "Lock".   My brain is locked up and I can't
> seem to come up with one.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Oct 19 01:07:46 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:07:46 -0700
Subject: Lock that Kick... Hey
In-Reply-To: <20051019024609.45491.qmail@web81104.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051019024609.45491.qmail@web81104.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4355D4A2.4020908@fourthworld.com>

Kathy Jaqua wrote:
> Does anyone have a simple password script.

Would this do what you need?:

   ask password "Enter your password:"


--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From rishi at puredata.com.au  Wed Oct 19 02:22:26 2005
From: rishi at puredata.com.au (Rishi Viner)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:22:26 +1000
Subject: ANN: Constellation Script & Property Editor 1.0.0 Released
In-Reply-To: <4355B11D.5080207@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
	<200510191045.45595.rishi@puredata.com.au>
	<4355B11D.5080207@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <200510191622.26934.rishi@puredata.com.au>

On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:36 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Rishi Viner wrote:
> > Awww, no linux version... :-(
> >
> > I live in the hope that one day someone will put this much time and
> > effort into making things streamlined and logical for the Linux users...
> > dreaming on...
>
> It's all Transcript -- why wouldn't it work any platform Rev supports?

Well, the web site says versions are available for Windows and OS X, so I 
presumed they had done something OS specific... maybe not?

-- 
Rishi Viner
--------------

Australia

www.puredata.com.au


From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Wed Oct 19 02:28:55 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 08:28:55 +0200
Subject: AW: AW: Lines, items, repeat loops, > not always what you think
In-Reply-To: <a05210605bf7abff45311@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCMEPMDJAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hi Dave,

> >The number of lines or items does not count an additional empty 
> >object at the end: "A,B" and "A,B," both have two items.
> >I would think this is rather a feature, because I don't have to take 
> >care of removing delimiters at the end after creating lists with
> >put something & comma after myList
> 
> Except if you are using a list field! Then you either have to remove 
> them, or check that the selected line is less than or equal to the 
> number of lines in the list field.

Interesting. Yes, you're right, and this is a small difference to HyperCard, which will give you an empty line even if there is no return at the end of the field contents. I wasn't aware of that.

All the best
Thomas



From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Oct 19 02:34:52 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 01:34:52 -0500
Subject: ANN: Constellation Script & Property Editor 1.0.0 Released
In-Reply-To: <200510191622.26934.rishi@puredata.com.au>
References: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>	<200510191045.45595.rishi@puredata.com.au>	<4355B11D.5080207@fourthworld.com>
	<200510191622.26934.rishi@puredata.com.au>
Message-ID: <4355E90C.6070903@chipp.com>

You should contact Jerry directly as he may provide you with a copy to 
test on Linux..

Rishi Viner wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:36 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>>Rishi Viner wrote:
>>
>>>Awww, no linux version... :-(
>>>
>>>I live in the hope that one day someone will put this much time and
>>>effort into making things streamlined and logical for the Linux users...
>>>dreaming on...
>>
>>It's all Transcript -- why wouldn't it work any platform Rev supports?
> 
> 
> Well, the web site says versions are available for Windows and OS X, so I 
> presumed they had done something OS specific... maybe not?
> 



From frank at backtalk.com  Wed Oct 19 02:46:01 2005
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:46:01 -0700
Subject: Rev 2.6.1 answer wrapper?
Message-ID: <fe8a586d364cc3e054e480e1d8a18f44@backtalk.com>

I downloaded Rev 2.6.1 and noticed that on OS X it displays answer 
dialogs (e.g. Save this stack?) with multi-sized text (i.e. different 
sizes for the primary and secondary text strings), and in the correct 
system font. Nice!

Does anyone know if they wrote their own wrapper around the built-in 
answer routine to handle font sizing, line breaks, creation of html 
text, etc., and if so what the name of the routine is?  I'd rather call 
their routine instead of having to reinvent my own.

Regards,
-- Frank Leahy



From soapdog at mac.com  Wed Oct 19 02:53:02 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 04:53:02 -0200
Subject: Rev 2.6.1 answer wrapper?
In-Reply-To: <fe8a586d364cc3e054e480e1d8a18f44@backtalk.com>
References: <fe8a586d364cc3e054e480e1d8a18f44@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <DD6C7EAF-7F20-4826-A2DD-F55C4FE16C0A@mac.com>


On Oct 19, 2005, at 4:46 AM, Frank Leahy wrote:

> I downloaded Rev 2.6.1 and noticed that on OS X it displays answer  
> dialogs (e.g. Save this stack?) with multi-sized text (i.e.  
> different sizes for the primary and secondary text strings), and in  
> the correct system font. Nice!
>
> Does anyone know if they wrote their own wrapper around the built- 
> in answer routine to handle font sizing, line breaks, creation of  
> html text, etc., and if so what the name of the routine is?  I'd  
> rather call their routine instead of having to reinvent my own.
>
> Regards,
> -- Frank Leahy

Frank,

I am working from memory here, but if you supply a htmltext to the  
answer routine, I do think it works... plz try that
andre


>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Oct 19 05:07:04 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:07:04 +0100
Subject: Dealing with filenames in a folder...
In-Reply-To: <393634BD-0AAF-4751-B1F3-402FCADEF518@maseurope.net>
References: <5BFC3ECE-5582-4547-90C1-E61F3D8390B1@mac.com>
	<393634BD-0AAF-4751-B1F3-402FCADEF518@maseurope.net>
Message-ID: <43560CB8.8030309@tweedly.net>

Mark Smith wrote:

> You could just filter again
>
> filter ROMlist without ".*" -- no asterisk at the beginning limits  
> the filter to excluding lines that start with a period
>
I haven't followed all of this thread - so I may have missed something, 
but ...

I don't believe the problem is anything to do with the line ".DSstore" - 
that would be filtered out by the filter that excludes anything not a 
ZIP file, and I don't think another filter is needed.

I think the problem is the section

>   put the files into ROMlist
>   filter ROMlist with ".zip"

That filter command should be
filter ROMlist with "*.zip"

I suspect it's currently filtering out everything, and so giving the 
impression that everything stops.

> On 18 Oct 2005, at 22:07, Ian Leigh wrote:
>
>> I am, as an attempt to learn Dreamcard, writing a frontend to MAME.  
>> I have a fair idea of what I need to do, just doing it is a bit of  a 
>> struggle at the moment.
>>
>> The user points to where their ROM folder is. What I then need to  do 
>> is take each filename that ends with .ZIP and convert that into  a 
>> full title. At the moment I am cross referencing the filename  with a 
>> text file containing the information I need. Displaying the  
>> filenames in a field is easy using the files command and filter to  
>> find the .zips. Because the filename isn't very descriptive I want  
>> to use the descriptions in the text file instead.
>>
>> So far I have been trying the following....
>>
>> global allgamedata, ROMlist, ROMtitlelist
>>
>> on mouseUp
>>   local counter, titletoscan, n
>>   answer folder "Where are your ROMs?"
>>   put it into field "ROMlocation"
>>   set the defaultfolder to field "ROMlocation"
>>   put the files into ROMlist
>>   filter ROMlist with ".zip"
>>   put ROMlist into field "gamedescription"
>>   repeat with n = 1 to the number of lines in ROMlist
>>     put line n of ROMlist into titletoscan
>>     put titletoscan into field "filetoscan"
>>     add scantitle(titletoscan) to ROMtitlelist
>>   end repeat
>>   put ROMtitlelist into field "availablegames"
>>
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> function scantitle titletoscan
>>   local gametitle, returnedpos
>>   put lineoffset("$info=" & titletoscan, allgamedata) into returnedpos
>>   put line returnedpos + 2 of allgamedata into gametitle
>>   return gametitle
>> end scantitle
>>
>> The problem is that the first item in ROMlist is .DSstore and the  
>> whole thing seems to stop there. I could do with a little help if  
>> anyone can assist!
>>
>> I have been thinking perhaps I should take the filename one at a  
>> time and then create an array to store each game into but don't  know 
>> if that is really necessary in rev. The reason this has to be  done 
>> is that MAME supports many thousands of roms but the user may  only 
>> have a handful.
>>
>> Many thanks
>>
>> Ian
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/142 - Release Date: 18/10/2005



From katir at hindu.org  Wed Oct 19 05:42:41 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:42:41 -1000
Subject: Saving Prefs on Windows
Message-ID: <7C9C8FF4-D8F0-4BD4-87E2-CEA821F1E30A@hindu.org>

I'm finding I really need to have my apps take greater control over  
installation locations, upgrades, prefs etc. otherwise support time  
goes way up for naive users... i.e. basic operations like the above  
just needs to happen automatically...

for OSX, it is clear where to save supporting  files...

/Applications/myRevApp/someApp.rev
/Library/Application Support/myRevApp/supportFiles..../

but I'm not familiar with Windows. In one app I am just saving some  
Prefs for my app in the user's Documents/myRevAppPrefs/  folder...  
using the special path.. some Windows users are not super happy about  
this... as it is not normal Windows behavior.

Is it ok to simply make a new folder in the Windows System folder and  
put your prefs and any lo-level support files there? These being  
files the users never needs to see or edit.

Sivakatirswami






From Signe.Sanne at roman.uib.no  Wed Oct 19 06:20:02 2005
From: Signe.Sanne at roman.uib.no (Signe Marie Sanne)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:20:02 +0200
Subject: Saving Prefs on Windows
In-Reply-To: <7C9C8FF4-D8F0-4BD4-87E2-CEA821F1E30A@hindu.org>
References: <7C9C8FF4-D8F0-4BD4-87E2-CEA821F1E30A@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <43561DD2.1060004@roman.uib.no>

Sivakatirswami skrev:

> I'm finding I really need to have my apps take greater control over  
> installation locations, upgrades, prefs etc. otherwise support time  
> goes way up for naive users... i.e. basic operations like the above  
> just needs to happen automatically...
> 
> for OSX, it is clear where to save supporting  files...
> 
> /Applications/myRevApp/someApp.rev
> /Library/Application Support/myRevApp/supportFiles..../
> 
> but I'm not familiar with Windows. In one app I am just saving some  
> Prefs for my app in the user's Documents/myRevAppPrefs/  folder...  
> using the special path.. some Windows users are not super happy about  
> this... as it is not normal Windows behavior.
> 
> Is it ok to simply make a new folder in the Windows System folder and  
> put your prefs and any lo-level support files there? These being  files 
> the users never needs to see or edit.
> 

Very often lots of directories on Windows are blocked for access. If you use 
specialfolderPath(26) this directory is usually open for storing files.

This directory is C:/Documents and Settings/.../Application Data

Signe Marie Sanne

1. amanuensis/Senior lecturer
Romansk institutt                 	Tlf. 	+47 55 58 21 27
?isteins gt. 1				Epost: 	signe.sanne at roman.uib.no
Universitetet i Bergen

http://www.hf.uib.no/mlab/Info/sms.html


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Wed Oct 19 07:22:47 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:22:47 +0200
Subject: Saving Prefs on Windows
In-Reply-To: <7C9C8FF4-D8F0-4BD4-87E2-CEA821F1E30A@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <OFFA038656.16483DFE-ONC125709F.003DF45D-C125709F.003E8025@deutsche-boerse.com>

There's MANY different options in windows...

First if you type set (or get that from the shell() you get

ALLUSERSPROFILE=D:\home\All Users <- all users' home path
APPDATA=D:\home\Administrator\Application Data <- common place for this 
user's data
CommonProgramFiles=D:\app\common <- another common place for app data
COMPUTERNAME=ZEROZEROSIX <- just in case
HOMEPATH=\home\Administrator <- directory of current user
ProgramFiles=D:\app  <- this is where apps are installed by default
(among other lines)

The other choice is to store your info in the registry which is kind of a 
standard. If you uninstall
or if a different user asks for information, it's easier to find... 

type regedit in the command box and look for this path

HKEY_local_machine/software/softwarename/productname/etc...

Unfortunately, you can't browse the contents in rev, you need to furnish 
an existing key to
read its values. Creating registry entries is not hard but it's better to 
see how it's done.

Best place for that is the revdocs and in technet.microsoft.com

hope it helps
cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 19/10/2005 11:42:41:

> I'm finding I really need to have my apps take greater control over 
> installation locations, upgrades, prefs etc. otherwise support time 
> goes way up for naive users... i.e. basic operations like the above 
> just needs to happen automatically...
> 
> for OSX, it is clear where to save supporting  files...
> 
> /Applications/myRevApp/someApp.rev
> /Library/Application Support/myRevApp/supportFiles..../
> 
> but I'm not familiar with Windows. In one app I am just saving some 
> Prefs for my app in the user's Documents/myRevAppPrefs/  folder... 
> using the special path.. some Windows users are not super happy about 
> this... as it is not normal Windows behavior.
> 
> Is it ok to simply make a new folder in the Windows System folder and 
> put your prefs and any lo-level support files there? These being 
> files the users never needs to see or edit.
> 
> Sivakatirswami
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



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From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Wed Oct 19 09:20:10 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Wouter)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:20:10 +0200
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <435536DE.1060204@fourthworld.com>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>	<a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>	<CC443F5E-30AC-4233-B7A8-EDD2B45F0334@danshafer.com>
	<a05210607bf7adba1d3a8@[192.168.0.101]>
	<435536DE.1060204@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <6F75073E-7C28-4A47-B77D-FC386097EC06@scarlet.be>


On 18 Oct 2005, at 19:54, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> David Burgun wrote:
>
>> You can't seem to get any information as to how many monitors are  
>> attached, or how big the Desktop is, this affects production  
>> software too. I was actually thinking of writing an external  
>> command to handle multiple monitors, the thing that has been  
>> putting me off is that I'd have to write it for Windows too, and I  
>> have no experience of programming at that level under Windows.
>>
>
> Please consider adding your votes to this excellent suggestion from  
> Ben Rubinstein:
>
> <http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=193>
>

Meanwhile on Mac OS X one can use shell:

put  shell("system_profiler -xml SPDisplaysDataType") into  
tXMLDisplayData

and parse this pList to extract the necessary information.

Greetings,
Wouter

From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Wed Oct 19 09:33:37 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:33:37 +0200
Subject: AW: finding and parsing internet shortcuts in Win
In-Reply-To: <1a86a4e19c8bc450a2ea72f4b0e57795@dvglasgow.wanadoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCOEAFDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hi David,

 
> Could I prevail upon someone using Windows to get the files or the 
> detailed files in a folder including an internet shortcut to see 
> whether this mysterious extension is seen by Rev?  If not, has anyone 
> else any bright ideas how I could identify Internet Shortcuts?  I mean, 
> how does Windows do it?

I suppose that on a windows machine something like

  answer folder "Please select directory:"
  if it is empty then exit mouseUp
  set the defaultFolder to it
  put the files into dirList

should give you a list to work with (it does on a Mac).

Unfortunately, writing a stack on Mac OS X, copying to a PC and then trying this doesn't seem to work - the "shell" stops the script from working.
Actually, I get neither the files nor any shell command to work on my PC from a Mac-made stack, e.g.
 answer shell("help")
does not even show the answer window. My Windows Rev test license just expired, so I can't dig deeper here.

All the best
Thomas 



From smithsm at samuelsmith.org  Wed Oct 19 09:43:30 2005
From: smithsm at samuelsmith.org (Samuel M. Smith)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 07:43:30 -0600
Subject: Open Process on OSX
In-Reply-To: <43555A99.8060708@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <F41D8495-7EDC-46F6-91D0-108F87E0F902@samuelsmith.org>	<1129628375.32274.43.camel@rachmaninov>
	<070F182F-2A77-49BE-8D78-5F361A747D81@samuelsmith.org>
	<43555A99.8060708@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <9B7AED08-A33E-4F71-B0DD-9C54DB937C64@samuelsmith.org>

I tried your suggestion but no change in behavior. I think it is a bug.

>
> I think what is happening is that the pointer has moved to the end  
> of the data and there is nothing left to read. I haven't  
> specifically used the "open/read process" commands, but it looks  
> like they function exactly the way opening and reading files does.  
> If so, every read and write moves the current location of the  
> pointer to the end of the string just read or written. When you  
> read the first line, the pointer is at the end of that line.  
> Reading the next line moves it to the end of the second line.  
> Writing a line then moves it to the end of the third line. If you  
> then issue another "read" command, you are at the end of the file  
> and there is nothing to read.
>
> To read the third line in this situation, you must include the  
> "start" position in the "read" command, which should indicate the  
> character offset of the third line. You'll have to parse this. If  
> you are storing the parts you've read so far in a variable, the  
> offset would be the length of the stored variable, for example.


From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Wed Oct 19 10:14:08 2005
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:14:08 -0500
Subject: ANN: Constellation Script & Property Editor 1.0.0 Released
In-Reply-To: <4355B11D.5080207@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>	<F6F86350-0045-4FA9-945D-54BEED9F3988@daniels-mara.com>	<DCD77F77-9114-4BF8-A69B-6632F773BC9F@writeme.com>
	<200510191045.45595.rishi@puredata.com.au>
	<4355B11D.5080207@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B21FE31C-9C89-4B6A-9527-3CC9D88F8995@daniels-mara.com>

What an EXCELLENT question. One I answered for Rishi in a separate  
email.

Constellation MAY work on Linux...we just don't have the requests for  
it or the testers for it--testers being the real missing link. If we  
can line up the resources (human), then we can get started.

Who knows? It may work first time!

Jerry

http://www.daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm
Scripts and properties in a tabbed editor!

On Oct 18, 2005, at 9:36 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Rishi Viner wrote:
>
>> Awww, no linux version... :-(
>> I live in the hope that one day someone will put this much time  
>> and effort into making things streamlined and logical for the  
>> Linux users... dreaming on...
>>
>
> It's all Transcript -- why wouldn't it work any platform Rev supports?
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Managing Editor, revJournal
>  _______________________________________________________
>  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 19 11:23:55 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:23:55 -0500
Subject: Open Process on OSX
In-Reply-To: <93837558-554E-4DD0-946C-70031C0B1A87@samuelsmith.org>
References: <F41D8495-7EDC-46F6-91D0-108F87E0F902@samuelsmith.org>	<1129628375.32274.43.camel@rachmaninov>
	<93837558-554E-4DD0-946C-70031C0B1A87@samuelsmith.org>
Message-ID: <4356650B.9070408@hyperactivesw.com>

Samuel M. Smith wrote:
> I tried this suggestion but no change in behavior. I think it is a bug.
> Since you work for RunRev do you concur? and what will it take to get  a 
> fix?
> Attached is my test stack if that if of any help in verifying.

The list doesn't accept attachments, so the file enclosure was stripped 
off the message.

I don't know if it is a bug or not. As I mentioned, I've never used 
"open process" specifically; when I need to communicate with other 
programs on Mac, I generally go with AppleScript. I was hoping someone 
else would answer to fill us both in.

The best way to get a bug, or a suspected bug, looked at is to enter a 
report into the bug tracking database, Bugzilla. You can do that here:

<http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase>

This is the only way the engineers will see and address the bug. 
Bugzilla includes the ability to upload your sample stack, which I 
definitely recommend.

Just for the record, I don't post to this list as someone who works for 
Runtime, but rather as a developer just like everyone else. When I'm 
participating here I usually forget that I do a few hours of tech 
support for Runtime (which is by no means my primary job,) and I never 
think about the fact that others may associate me with the company when 
I post. So, that said, I officially reserve the right to not know 
everything. ;)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Oct 19 12:44:27 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:44:27 -0700
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <AA3CDA2E-A8F4-40A6-988D-31942A6E5E71@daniels-mara.com>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>	<a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>
	<AA3CDA2E-A8F4-40A6-988D-31942A6E5E71@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <435677EB.1010402@fourthworld.com>

Jerry Daniels wrote:
> After a couple hundred test cycles and hundreds of suggestions on  
> design and UI, I have decided that no two people want the same IDE.

Well said.  That's one of the beautiful things about Rev's plugin 
architecture and that most of its scripts are exposed:  the 
opportunities for extensibility are boundless.

Congrats on the Constellation release.

And remember that anytime you want to pump it up in the pages of 
revJournal, just send along whatever you like and I'll post it.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Oct 19 12:47:35 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:47:35 -0700
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <4B7D9C22-6B46-40A4-8D9A-BBBF170D805F@conncoll.edu>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>	<a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>	<CC443F5E-30AC-4233-B7A8-EDD2B45F0334@danshafer.com>	<EE555764-36F5-4908-AD88-BA08667B8409@conncoll.edu>	<435535EC.2020809@fourthworld.com>
	<4B7D9C22-6B46-40A4-8D9A-BBBF170D805F@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <435678A7.70209@fourthworld.com>

Charles Hartman wrote:

> On Oct 18, 2005, at 1:50 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> In the Files section of the MC IDE working group there's a shell a  
>> couple of us built which suck up the thousands of tiny Transcript  
>> Dictionary files and imports them into a single stack using Rev's  
>> native objects for storage -- mcTranscriptDict.mc.sit at:
>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MC_IDE/files/Extras/>
>>
>> If there's sufficient interest and joining the group to get one  file 
>> seems annoying, I can mirror that file at a simpler location.
>  
> Would that include the Topics documentation? If so, I'd find it  
> helpful, because that's the impossibly slow part of Rev's docs. (If  
> it's just the dictionary, then the M&M xscript gadget does it for  me . 
> . .)

Sounds like you're set.  All I use from the docs is the Transcript 
Dictionary, so that's all I built a shell for.

But if someone wants to take the shell and expand it to include other 
parts of the docs they're welcome to do so.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  __________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Oct 19 13:02:19 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:02:19 -0700
Subject: Revolution back to HyperCard
In-Reply-To: <p06200703bf79b1763ac2@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>	<p06200702bf75fc9179bd@[10.0.1.2]>	<43505714.1090205@fourthworld.com>	<p06200705bf78a826b17c@[10.0.1.2]>
	<4353172D.90609@fourthworld.com> <p06200703bf79b1763ac2@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <43567C1B.2030403@fourthworld.com>

Timothy Miller wrote:

> I appreciate your concern and your many good efforts on behalf of the 
> product we all love.

Thanks, Tim.
I gotta say, every time I see a post from Tim Miller in my In Box I 
always look forward to reading it.  No matter what the topic, even when 
discussing bugs and annoyances, you manage to convey and infectious 
upbeat tone.  Thanks for being you.


> Richard wrote:
>
>> With SS, what does the result give you?  Does it produce a list of 
>> found objects, or take you to them sequentially?
> 
> It gives them to you sequentially, and it opens the script window on the 
> first hit. After that, you use the "find next" button in the 
> search-and-replace script window to get subsequent hits. It finds the 
> desired strings pretty quick, though Rev finds them faster.

Maybe I didn't understand the original post, but if HC's SS is 
effectively only finding one instance at a time while Rev's is searching 
for all, doesn't it stand to reason that Rev's will always be slower?


> Well... I might not have been clear. Searching scripts in Rev is fine. 
> Better than fine. Searching field text with Rev's "find" stack is the 
> problem in Rev.
> 
> The absence of Atkinson's patented "hint bits" might be part of the 
> problem with finding field text in Rev, but it's probably not the main 
> problem.

Agreed.  Atkinson's good, but Raney's good too. :)  I would expect any 
different attributable to the "hint bits" alone to be relatively minor 
in terms of overall throughput, esp. given that a Rev stack is entirely 
in RAM while HC stacks (larger than 30 or so cards) are paged from disk.


> A simple script that finds field text using the "find" command works 
> fast enough in Rev. It's just Rev's native "find" stack that is way too 
> slow.
> 
> e.g. the following script takes less than 1 second. Okay, it's a clunky 
> script, but it works. Homie don't script elegant-like.

[removing the buttoned-to-the-collar Pendleton and replacing it with 
bling bling over a hooded sweatshirt:] Word, G.  If it flies it's fly.

> on mouseup
>   go first
>   put 1 into countVar1
>   put 1 into countVar2
>   repeat until CountVar2 < countVar1 or the shiftkey is down
>     put the number of this card into countVar1
>     find string "software"
>     put the foundchunk & return after theVar
>     put the number of this card into countVar2
>   end repeat
>   go first
>     put theVar after cd field "temp"
> end mouseup
> 
> This script takes a second or two, in Rev in the stack I used to test it.
> 
> The same task in Rev's "find" stack takes 15 to 20 seconds, searching 
> the same stack.

Ouch.  Hmmm....some day I'd like to go through the Rev Find stack and 
see whaddup.

> It is offputting, I must say, that the Find stack is so very slow, at 
> least when it comes to field text. It gets much, much worse with larger 
> stacks, containing many fields per card, and many cards. In those 
> stacks, Rev's simple find command still works great.

Sounds like a job for another cool plugin.  Anyone got a Find plugin handy?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  __________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Oct 19 13:55:14 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:55:14 +0200
Subject: Revolution back to HyperCard
In-Reply-To: <43567C1B.2030403@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20051019172409.B1608824FD2@mail.runrev.com>

Richard said

> Sounds like a job for another cool plugin.  Anyone got a Find 
> plugin handy?

man that rang a bell

Heres the first page on script searching I evolved from "SS" ;)
Taken from the XOS.rev stack

http://www.monsieurx.com/tiki/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=3

I'll add more if there is interest... Example: find scrips containing a
string/function/handler variable across 1 or many stacks...

Questions welcome... some functions, like script reporting, can be
requested, should I wiki them all? I get the feeling this wiki is going to
grow out of proportions fast this way. It could provide a repository of LOTs
of scripts!

Not many have made rev/mc/xtalk oriented web sites that have successfully
united so many scripts that can be "found"... One problem however is
dependencies on other functions. But then again wiki can help a lot here!

What do you think of the idea? could be like reviving the Windoid
hyper-magazine!
I can add about a good 4-500 good scripts there already... I could like them
to keywords, commands, objects, etc...

just thinking outloud to see how much trouble this gets me into now ;)

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo 
we add new things all the time!



From ron at ecionmicroed.com  Wed Oct 19 14:04:00 2005
From: ron at ecionmicroed.com (Ron Noice)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:04:00 -0400
Subject: help with custom sort
Message-ID: <200510191440.390219@msi98>

I have a field containing several items including one for month/year pairs such as:
Oct 2005
Apr 2005
Feb 2004
Jan 2006
Apr 2005
Aug 2005

Is there any clever way to get these lines sorted chronologically? What I've been doing so far is generating a real date from them:
Oct 1, 2005
Apr 1, 2005
etc.
in a hidden item and sorting that. 
This works but I'm betting there's a way to do a custom sort thingee that works directly from the original values. But so far I've come up with nada. Any clever ideas?

... Ron



From AbilityForms at aol.com  Wed Oct 19 15:37:35 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:37:35 EDT
Subject: Newbie Focus Question
Message-ID: <8.72f4485c.3087fa7f@aol.com>

Hi Everyone,

I figured out how to focus on a line in a field with the field inspector. Now 
my problem is how do I unselect that line in a script?

Joe
Orlando, Florida


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Oct 19 15:46:00 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:46:00 -0700
Subject: Newbie Focus Question
In-Reply-To: <8.72f4485c.3087fa7f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BF7BF088.23201%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, AbilityForms at aol.com  wrote:

> I figured out how to focus on a line in a field with the field inspector. Now
> my problem is how do I unselect that line in a script?

If you mean, by using a script, try:

 select empty

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Wed Oct 19 15:53:26 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Buster)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:53:26 +0200
Subject: help with custom sort
In-Reply-To: <200510191440.390219@msi98>
References: <200510191440.390219@msi98>
Message-ID: <BA97EF05-7FD7-4185-BA1F-D4A481EFD7E2@scarlet.be>

Hi,

This is a similar problem as in the "Silly sort question" thread
Adapt Jacques' excellent solution like in:

on mouseUp
   ### adapt to taste
   ### sortbydate(item xx of each)
   ### numeric ascending or descending
   sort lines of fld 1 numeric by sortbydate(each)
end mouseUp

function sortbydate pDate
   replace word 1 of pDate with word 1 of pDate && "1," in pDate
   convert pDate to seconds
   return pDate
end sortbydate

Greetings,
Wouer

On 19 Oct 2005, at 20:04, Ron Noice wrote:

> I have a field containing several items including one for month/ 
> year pairs such as:
> Oct 2005
> Apr 2005
> Feb 2004
> Jan 2006
> Apr 2005
> Aug 2005
>
> Is there any clever way to get these lines sorted chronologically?  
> What I've been doing so far is generating a real date from them:
> Oct 1, 2005
> Apr 1, 2005
> etc.
> in a hidden item and sorting that.
> This works but I'm betting there's a way to do a custom sort  
> thingee that works directly from the original values. But so far  
> I've come up with nada. Any clever ideas?
>
> ... Ron
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Oct 19 16:22:47 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:22:47 -0500
Subject: background grps and preOpenCard
Message-ID: <4356AB17.7070207@chipp.com>

I'm working on a multi-card wizard and came across this and wanted to 
mention a peculiar behavior and see if people thing it's correct.

I create a shared background group over a few cards.

I put in it:

on preOpenCard
   beep
end preOpenCard

It only gets called on the first card where the group is encountered, 
and none thereafter. IOW, it appears the preOpenCard message is not sent 
to a background group except for the first time it's encountered. If I 
go to a card which doens't have the bgGroup, then back to one that has 
it, the preOpenCard handler gets called again.

Weird.

Just wondering if that seems like *expected* behavior?

-Chipp



From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Wed Oct 19 16:42:34 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:42:34 +0100
Subject: background grps and preOpenCard
In-Reply-To: <4356AB17.7070207@chipp.com>
References: <4356AB17.7070207@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <3D2801D4-32DA-4827-9841-E7AD8A2C26F9@lacscentre.co.uk>

On 19 Oct 2005, at 21:22, Chipp Walters wrote:

> I'm working on a multi-card wizard and came across this and wanted  
> to mention a peculiar behavior and see if people thing it's correct.
>
> I create a shared background group over a few cards.
>
> I put in it:
>
> on preOpenCard
>   beep
> end preOpenCard
>
> It only gets called on the first card where the group is  
> encountered, and none thereafter. IOW, it appears the preOpenCard  
> message is not sent to a background group except for the first time  
> it's encountered. If I go to a card which doens't have the bgGroup,  
> then back to one that has it, the preOpenCard handler gets called  
> again.

It beeps here when I go to any card where the group is placed, even  
between card that both have the group. (this is Rev 2.6.1 on OS X)

Do you have the backgroundBehavior property set?

However, if I set backgroundBehavior to false, it doesn't beep at  
all, which is what I would expect. Your "beep one time only" sounds  
like what should happen from a preOpenBackground handler.

Do you have any other preOpenCard handlers anywhere that might block  
this? (in card scripts, or other backgrounds)

Cheers
Dave


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 19 16:44:48 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:44:48 -0500
Subject: background grps and preOpenCard
In-Reply-To: <4356AB17.7070207@chipp.com>
References: <4356AB17.7070207@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <4356B040.2070607@hyperactivesw.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:
> I'm working on a multi-card wizard and came across this and wanted to 
> mention a peculiar behavior and see if people thing it's correct.
> 
> I create a shared background group over a few cards.
> 
> I put in it:
> 
> on preOpenCard
>   beep
> end preOpenCard
> 
> It only gets called on the first card where the group is encountered, 
> and none thereafter. IOW, it appears the preOpenCard message is not sent 
> to a background group except for the first time it's encountered. If I 
> go to a card which doens't have the bgGroup, then back to one that has 
> it, the preOpenCard handler gets called again.
> 
> Weird.
> 
> Just wondering if that seems like *expected* behavior?

No. It should work on every card. This sounds like a similar bug that 
Tim Miller found where the engine would only debug a background script 
on card 1 of the background. I thought that got fixed though.

That said, I created a small stack with the above preopencard handler in 
a background group, and the preopencard handler executed on every card. 
So something else is going on. Do you have "backgroundbehavior" set to true?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Oct 19 17:35:15 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:35:15 -0500
Subject: background grps and preOpenCard
In-Reply-To: <4356B040.2070607@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <4356AB17.7070207@chipp.com> <4356B040.2070607@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <4356BC13.7000208@chipp.com>

Hmmm.

Thanks Jacque and Dave for checking this out for me.

The backgroundbehavior is true. After a restart, it's working now, so 
false alarm. I'm really not sure why, but perhaps Jacque was right, I 
had a 'preOpenCard' handler somewhere which was grabbing the message.

Thanks again for testing,

best,
Chipp

J. Landman Gay wrote:
> No. It should work on every card. This sounds like a similar bug that 
> Tim Miller found where the engine would only debug a background script 
> on card 1 of the background. I thought that got fixed though.
> 
> That said, I created a small stack with the above preopencard handler in 
> a background group, and the preopencard handler executed on every card. 
> So something else is going on. Do you have "backgroundbehavior" set to 
> true?
> 



From ron at ecionmicroed.com  Wed Oct 19 18:02:18 2005
From: ron at ecionmicroed.com (Ron Noice)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:02:18 -0400
Subject: help with custom sort
In-Reply-To: <BA97EF05-7FD7-4185-BA1F-D4A481EFD7E2@scarlet.be>
Message-ID: <2005101918218.817345@msi98>

Perfect. Thanks very much (and thanks to Jacque, of course) for a great solution. 
It works exactly as advertised and the basic idea can be adapted in many ways.
Thanks.

... Ron

______________________________________________
*** From: Buster ?(wouter.abraham at scarlet.be)
*** Dated: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:53:26 +0200

?Hi,

?This is a similar problem as in the "Silly sort question" thread
?Adapt Jacques' excellent solution like in:

?on mouseUp
? ? ### adapt to taste
? ? ### sortbydate(item xx of each)
? ? ### numeric ascending or descending
? ? sort lines of fld 1 numeric by sortbydate(each)
?end mouseUp

?function sortbydate pDate
? ? replace word 1 of pDate with word 1 of pDate &&?"1," in pDate
? ? convert pDate to seconds
? ? return pDate
?end sortbydate

?Greetings,
?Wouer

?On 19 Oct 2005, at 20:04, Ron Noice wrote:

?>?I have a field containing several items including one for month/
?>?year pairs such as:
?>?Oct 2005
?>?Apr 2005
?>?Feb 2004
?>?Jan 2006
?>?Apr 2005
?>?Aug 2005
?>
?>?Is there any clever way to get these lines sorted chronologically?
?>?What I've been doing so far is generating a real date from them:
?>?Oct 1, 2005
?>?Apr 1, 2005
?>?etc.
?>?in a hidden item and sorting that.
?>?This works but I'm betting there's a way to do a custom sort
?>?thingee that works directly from the original values. But so far
?>?I've come up with nada. Any clever ideas?
?>
?>?... Ron
?>
?>?_______________________________________________
?>?use-revolution mailing list
?>?use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
?>?Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
?>?subscription preferences:
?>?http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
?>

?_______________________________________________
?use-revolution mailing list
?use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
?Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
?http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Oct 19 18:13:22 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:13:22 -0500
Subject: feeling guilty ;-) Neat cool icon organizer
Message-ID: <4356C502.1090000@chipp.com>

Turns out I had a problem with a group on top of itself in the prev 
post. Sorry for wasting bandwidth. So..

Here's a cute script, but first a bit of background.

I typically keep all my icons for buttons in a separate substack. That 
way, I can import them and edit them there, and I don't have to worry 
about making them invisible and keeping track. But, as I keep adding 
more and more icons, the substack gets pretty meesy, so I have button 
"organize icons" with the script:

on mouseUp
   put 0 into tLeftPos
   put 0 into tTopPos
   put 0 into tMaxHeight
   repeat with x = 1 to the number of images on this cd
     put the width of img x into tW
     put max(the height of img x,tMaxHeight) into tMaxHeight
     if tLeftPos + tW > the width of this card then
       add tMaxHeight to tTopPos
       put 0 into tMaxHeight
       put 0 into tLeftPos
     end if
     set the topLeft of img x to tLeftPos,tTopPos
     add tW to tLeftPos
   end repeat
end mouseUp

This lines them up left to right to the width of the card, then starts a 
new row and begins again. I use this in many of my projects. As more 
icons get imported, I can resize the stack window and press the button 
and they're all reorganized for me. Hope someone finds it useful.

best,

Chipp



From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Wed Oct 19 19:24:22 2005
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:24:22 +0100
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
Message-ID: <1129760662.4356c796f2ffb@www.uni-kassel.de>


On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

Richard Gaskin wrote:

>Charles Hartman wrote:

>> (snip)
>> Would that include the Topics documentation? If so, I'd find it  
>> helpful, because that's the impossibly slow part of Rev's docs. (If  
>> it's just the dictionary, then the M&M xscript gadget does it for  me . 
>> . .)

>Sounds like you're set.  All I use from the docs is the Transcript 
>Dictionary, so that's all I built a shell for.

>But if someone wants to take the shell and expand it to include other 
>parts of the docs they're welcome to do so.

>--
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Media Corporation

After a long abstinence from partipating in Rev lists I might chime in here:

You could have a look at my "SearchDocs" stack - now updated for Rev version
2.6.1 (both to be used in the Rev and the MC IDE), which includes the Topics, too.

Search is "lightning-fast" amd you do not get simply addresses, but all lines
containing the (colored) searchstrings along with the addresses that can lead
you immediately to the full XML-article.

Similar procedures are used in my tools "Topsearch" for searching text fields
and my four-year old "revbrowser", which contains the option to really
fast-search all the scripts in stack.

The address is: <http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>. Go to page "Tools and Samples
for Development".

There are other efficient tools around in the Metacard and Rev community (among
them Richard Gaskin's and Klaus Major's), but it does not hurt to look around.

Regards,

Wilhelm Sanke

<http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>
Wilhelm Sanke, Prof.
Educational Technology
University of Kassel, Germany



--------------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through http://www.uni-kassel.de/www-mail



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 18:27:31 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 08:27:31 +1000
Subject: Lock that Kick... Hey
In-Reply-To: <20051019024609.45491.qmail@web81104.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051019024609.45491.qmail@web81104.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510191527u2a8f6107g4a0d6a9aa4711b48@mail.gmail.com>

> Does anyone have a simple password script. I am hiding
> the text fields until a password is given. The fields
> are on 1 card stack. The script will be in a button
> called  "Lock".   My brain is locked up and I can't
> seem to come up with one.
>

The easiest way is to use the "ask password" command. This allows your
users to type in a password without it being seen. If you use "ask
password clear", the plain text of the password will be placed into
"it". If you leave out the "clear" option, "it" will contain an
encrypted version of the password entered.

HTH,
Sarah


From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Wed Oct 19 19:39:06 2005
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:39:06 +0100
Subject: Revolution back to HyperCard
Message-ID: <1129761546.4356cb0abad90@www.uni-kassel.de>


On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

>Timothy Miller wrote:

>> Well... I might not have been clear. Searching scripts in Rev is fine. 
>> Better than fine. Searching field text with Rev's "find" stack is the 
>> problem in Rev.
>> 

>> It is offputting, I must say, that the Find stack is so very slow, at 
>> least when it comes to field text. It gets much, much worse with larger 
>> stacks, containing many fields per card, and many cards. In those 
>> stacks, Rev's simple find command still works great.


>Sounds like a job for another cool plugin.  Anyone got a Find plugin handy?

>  Richard Gaskin
 > Fourth World Media Corporation

My rather old "Topsearch" stack attempted to achieve a really fast search for
text fields in a stack.

Search is "lightning-fast" amd you do not get simply addresses, but all lines
containing the (colored) searchstrings along with the addresses that can lead
you immediately to the card containing the text field

Similar procedures are used in my tools "SearchDocs" for searching the Rev
documentation (including "Topics" etc.)  and my four-year old "revbrowser",
which contains the option to really fast-search all the scripts in a stack.

The address is: <http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>. Go to page "Tools and Samples
for Development".

There are other efficient tools around in the Metacard and Rev community (among
them Richard Gaskin's and Klaus Major's), but it does not hurt to look around.

Regards,

Wilhelm Sanke

<http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>
Wilhelm Sanke, Prof.
Educational Technology
University of Kassel, Germany


--------------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through http://www.uni-kassel.de/www-mail



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 18:43:08 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 08:43:08 +1000
Subject: A New and Frustrated User
In-Reply-To: <20051018175836.66743.qmail@web86306.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <20051018175836.66743.qmail@web86306.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510191543j2b7dfd3bg721ac245dbc79d3e@mail.gmail.com>

> I have been advised to contact yourselves for assistance in this matter.  I have recently purchased the enterprise edition of Revolution and trying hard to get to grips with scripting.  I feel that I am making progress, but my main area of concern is working with a database.
>
> Can I be so bold as to ask someone to write a very short program for me so that I can see how all this scripting is put into place.  An ideal example would be for a personal record (Name, Address & Telephone) created using Microsoft Access, and then Revolution used to add new records to the database.  Revolution used to search for a particular record and Revolution used to edit an existing record.  These routines would clearly assist me in how these basic scripts are put together.
>

Hi Steve & welcome to the Revolution!

While teaching myself MySQL, I wrote a test stack that you may find
useful. It doesn't use the Database Query builder, but uses the direct
database commands to connect to a database, read tables & table
structures, read records, add, edit & delete etc.

<http://www.troz.net/Rev/tutorials/MySQLtests.rev.gz>

It does not have a very neat interface as it was designed as a
learning stack for me, but if you examine the scripts, you will get
some ideas about how things can be done.

As I mentioned, I used it with MySQL, but I think if you edit the
"connect" button, you can set it to connect to an ODBC source like
Access instead.

Having said all that, databases are a complex thing requiring
Revolution to interface with external sources, which leaves plenty of
scope for problems. As a new user, you might be better trying
something simpler at first, until you are more familiar with
Revolution's own capabilities.

HTH,
Sarah


From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Wed Oct 19 19:58:18 2005
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:58:18 +0100
Subject: ANN - Update of Rev Documentation search tools etc.
Message-ID: <1129762698.4356cf8a22ad3@www.uni-kassel.de>

After a long abstinence from participating in Rev lists I might contribute
something to the various ongoing discussions about search tools for the Rev
documentation, text fields and scripts in stacks:

I have just updated my documentation search tool (you could update it yourself
in the "readme" text window, as long as the Rev documention sticks to its
present XML-formats, once you have downloaded a version of "Searchdocs"). 

"SearchDocs 2.6.1" is available both for the Rev and the MC IDE. This
documentation search tool optionally includes "Topics", "Faq", and "Glossary".

Search is "lightning-fast" amd you do not get simply addresses, but all lines
containing the (colored) searchstrings along with the addresses that can lead
you immediately to the full XML-article.

Similar procedures are used in my tools "Topsearch" for searching text fields
and my four-year old "revbrowser", which contains the option to really
fast-search all the scripts in stack.

The address is: <http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>. Go to page "Tools and Samples
for Development".

There are other efficient tools around in the Metacard and Rev community (among
them Richard Gaskin's and Klaus Major's), but it does not hurt to look around.

Regards,

Wilhelm Sanke

<http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>
Wilhelm Sanke, Prof.
Educational Technology
University of Kassel, Germany

 
-- 
Wilhelm Sanke
<www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>

--------------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through http://www.uni-kassel.de/www-mail



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 19:16:20 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:16:20 +1000
Subject: Slightly OT: Setting privileges on OS-X
In-Reply-To: <9BAEE514-E2D3-42B0-9DF4-D45F13D87A46@pandora.be>
References: <9BAEE514-E2D3-42B0-9DF4-D45F13D87A46@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510191616j328e37eete6fdcc377c7c4112@mail.gmail.com>

> Are there Unix-wizzkids out there?
>
> I've created a small RR app that creates a bunch of standard folders
> (like the list below) where users can drop job-related items in.
>
> Now I need to secure these folders, but not the content...
> The folders I create may not be deleted by a user, only by the owner,
> which will be me :-)) but the users are allowed to create new folders
> or files in the basic folders. These files and folders they should be
> able to change, delete, rename, etc.
>

Hi Ton,

I don't claim to be a Unix-wizzkid at all, but I have learnt some
stuff about privileges.

Each file or folder in Unix / OS X has 3 sets of privileges: owner,
group & guest.
There are 3 settings in each set: read, write and execute (r, w & x).

If you open a Terminal window and type "ls -l" and press Return, you
will see a list of items in the current folder. The first section of
the data shows the current privilege settings.
Here is an example:
-rwxr-xr-x    a file where the owner can do anything (rwx) , the group
can read & execute but not write (r-x) and guests (anyone else) can
also read & execute but not write (r-x).

If the first character was "d" instead of "-", then it would be a
folder (directory).

To change these settings, you need to use the "chmod" command.
To add write privileges for all users to a file, use a command like this:
     chmod a+w filename
To remove write privileges, use this:
    chmod a-w filename

However this does not stop people deleting your files or folders. To
make a folder "sticky" i.e. make it so that users other than the owner
can only add files and not delete them, use this command:
    chmod +t foldername

To make files undeletable, I would use an AppleScript to toggle their
"locked" setting:
Here is an example that asks for a file, then locks it so it cannot be deleted.

tell application "Finder"
	set tFile to choose file
	set the locked of file tFile to true
end tell

I hope this helps, but please email me directly if you think I can be
of any further assistance.

Sarah


From harvey.toyama at qlogic.com  Wed Oct 19 19:31:32 2005
From: harvey.toyama at qlogic.com (Harvey Toyama)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:31:32 -0700
Subject: Filtering for uniqueness in a list
Message-ID: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F801A3B5DD@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>

Hi,

I have a task that requires aggregating multiple lists and dropping
non-unique entries. My lists come from MySQL tables.

 

My alternatives seem to be:

 

1.  Create a temporary table in MySQL and use the REPLACE 

    function with each table (list)

 

    pro:  the REPLACE function ensures uniqueness

    con:  I must grant the user a CREATE privilege 

          and I'd rather not

 

 

2.  Read the lists into my Revolution client and perform 

    the uniquification there 

 

    pro:  I don't compromise the MySQL security

    con:  I think I have to use a REPEAT loop to 

          compare subsequent lines in the sorted 

          aggregate list

 

Does anyone have a good, fast method for ensuring uniqueness in a multi
word list?

 

-- Harvey

-- 

 



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Wed Oct 19 19:41:34 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:41:34 -0400
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <1129760662.4356c796f2ffb@www.uni-kassel.de>
References: <1129760662.4356c796f2ffb@www.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <3B19BDE3-1613-45C8-8C44-681F7A0C581B@conncoll.edu>


On Oct 19, 2005, at 7:24 PM, sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de wrote:

> You could have a look at my "SearchDocs" stack - now updated for  
> Rev version
> 2.6.1 (both to be used in the Rev and the MC IDE), which includes  
> the Topics, too.
>
> Search is "lightning-fast" amd you do not get simply addresses, but  
> all lines
> containing the (colored) searchstrings along with the addresses  
> that can lead
> you immediately to the full XML-article.
>
> Similar procedures are used in my tools "Topsearch" for searching  
> text fields
> and my four-year old "revbrowser", which contains the option to really
> fast-search all the scripts in stack.
>
> The address is: <http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>. Go to page "Tools  
> and Samples
> for Development".

Yes, that is *very* fast indeed. Thanks! And revBrowser looks handy,  
too -- prospects of bringing it up to date? (The site says it needs  
it . . .)

Charles Hartman


From stephen.lucas37 at btinternet.com  Wed Oct 19 19:43:28 2005
From: stephen.lucas37 at btinternet.com (Steve Lucas)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:43:28 +0100 (BST)
Subject: A New and Frustrated User
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860510191543j2b7dfd3bg721ac245dbc79d3e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051019234328.66955.qmail@web86301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hi There Sarah
 
Thank you very much for taking time out to respond and more important to me by directing me to a program which I can study.  Many Many Thanks for that.
 
Regards
Steve


Sarah Reichelt <sarah.reichelt at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been advised to contact yourselves for assistance in this matter. I have recently purchased the enterprise edition of Revolution and trying hard to get to grips with scripting. I feel that I am making progress, but my main area of concern is working with a database.
>
> Can I be so bold as to ask someone to write a very short program for me so that I can see how all this scripting is put into place. An ideal example would be for a personal record (Name, Address & Telephone) created using Microsoft Access, and then Revolution used to add new records to the database. Revolution used to search for a particular record and Revolution used to edit an existing record. These routines would clearly assist me in how these basic scripts are put together.
>

Hi Steve & welcome to the Revolution!

While teaching myself MySQL, I wrote a test stack that you may find
useful. It doesn't use the Database Query builder, but uses the direct
database commands to connect to a database, read tables & table
structures, read records, add, edit & delete etc.



It does not have a very neat interface as it was designed as a
learning stack for me, but if you examine the scripts, you will get
some ideas about how things can be done.

As I mentioned, I used it with MySQL, but I think if you edit the
"connect" button, you can set it to connect to an ODBC source like
Access instead.

Having said all that, databases are a complex thing requiring
Revolution to interface with external sources, which leaves plenty of
scope for problems. As a new user, you might be better trying
something simpler at first, until you are more familiar with
Revolution's own capabilities.

HTH,
Sarah
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Wed Oct 19 19:50:36 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:50:36 -0400
Subject: A New and Frustrated User
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860510191543j2b7dfd3bg721ac245dbc79d3e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20051018175836.66743.qmail@web86306.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<f99b52860510191543j2b7dfd3bg721ac245dbc79d3e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8F46EB38-AC39-4E45-9F11-34698C5DC3BB@conncoll.edu>

Sarah,

I'm working on my first MySQL app, so out of curiosity I took a look  
at your test stack. It's not fancy, though perfectly workmanlike --  
but I'm already finding it really handy as a tool. I use it to check  
what's actually going on in the database behind my fumbles with the  
Rev front-end. Without it, I'd have to switch to Terminal all the  
time and issue MySQL commands; this is faster and breaks the train of  
thought a lot less. Thanks!

Charles Hartman

P.S. I can second what you said about adding on complications when  
you undertake to make Rev and MySQL work together; I'm glad this  
isn't my first project -- I'm a little daunted by it as a second one.

On Oct 19, 2005, at 6:43 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> While teaching myself MySQL, I wrote a test stack that you may find
> useful. It doesn't use the Database Query builder, but uses the direct
> database commands to connect to a database, read tables & table
> structures, read records, add, edit & delete etc.
>
> <http://www.troz.net/Rev/tutorials/MySQLtests.rev.gz>
>
> It does not have a very neat interface as it was designed as a
> learning stack for me, but if you examine the scripts, you will get
> some ideas about how things can be done.



From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Oct 19 19:54:10 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:54:10 -0500
Subject: A New and Frustrated User
In-Reply-To: <20051018175836.66743.qmail@web86306.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <20051018175836.66743.qmail@web86306.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4356DCA2.5010603@chipp.com>

Steve,

You may also like to take a look at our altSQLite plugin demo stack, as 
it's very simple and uses the revDB calls (generic) which apply to all 
databases.

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altSQLiteCover/default.htm

best,

Chipp



From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Oct 19 19:58:09 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:58:09 +0100
Subject: OT: Looking for a cheap web hosting ISP
Message-ID: <4356DD91.2090106@tweedly.net>

Definitely off-topic - please delete if you're busy.

I'm looking for a reasonable priced ISP to host some of my web site. 
[reasonable == cheap !!]

I'm very happy with my main web-hosting ISP  (34sp.com in the UK) - good 
response times, great service and very cheap ?15 ($24) per year for CGI, 
Python, SSH, telnet, ftp, mySQL, ....) - the only snag is I only get 
50Mb, and additional space is quite expensive.

One of the sites I help run contains a photo-archive (currently 220Mb 
and growing about 20M per month).

My current thought is to keep the user access pages on my main ISP, and 
just put the bulk of the photos on some other site that gives cheaper 
disk space - so I don't need mySQL, CGI or indeed any other features - 
not even backups. Up until now, I've had this "overflow" of photos on 
the "free" space that came with my dial-up account (250Mb), but I just 
upgraded to broadband, and the "free" space that comes with it is only 
100Mb. (cheapest broadband service versus fairly top-range dial-up).


Of course, support for Rev CGI would be a big plus - but not one I'd pay 
very much for.

So - any suggestions for cheap web disk space ?
Thanks

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/142 - Release Date: 18/10/2005



From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Oct 19 20:08:44 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 01:08:44 +0100
Subject: Filtering for uniqueness in a list
In-Reply-To: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F801A3B5DD@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>
References: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F801A3B5DD@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>
Message-ID: <4356E00C.9060608@tweedly.net>

Harvey Toyama wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I have a task that requires aggregating multiple lists and dropping
>non-unique entries. My lists come from MySQL tables.
>
>
>  
>
>2.  Read the lists into my Revolution client and perform 
>
>    the uniquification there 
>
> 
>
>    pro:  I don't compromise the MySQL security
>
>    con:  I think I have to use a REPEAT loop to 
>
>          compare subsequent lines in the sorted 
>
>          aggregate list
>
> 
>
>Does anyone have a good, fast method for ensuring uniqueness in a multi
>word list?
>
>  
>
If you are not concerned by the order of the eventual list, you can use

>
> split myVar by cr and TAB    -- assuming TAB doesn't appear in the data
> put the keys of myVar into otherVar
>
This converts it into an array, using the contents of each line as the 
key; since there are no TABs in the data, the content of each array 
element is null - but you don't care. This conversion automatically 
eliminates duplicates - so then you can just use "the keys of" the array.

Note the code fragment here overwrites "myVar" - you could do

> put myVar into otherVar
> split otherVar by cr and TAB
> put the keys of otherVar into otherVar


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/142 - Release Date: 18/10/2005



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Oct 19 20:52:56 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:52:56 -0700
Subject: Filtering for uniqueness in a list
In-Reply-To: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F801A3B5DD@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>
References: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F801A3B5DD@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>
Message-ID: <5530323733.20051019175256@ahsoftware.net>

Harvey-

Wednesday, October 19, 2005, 4:31:32 PM, you wrote:

> Does anyone have a good, fast method for ensuring uniqueness in a multi
> word list?

>From your description, it sounds like a plain old array would do the
job for you:

-- pass your list (with duplicates) in pList:
function RemoveDupesFrom pList
  local tNoDupesA
  repeat for each line tData in pList
    put true into tNoDupesA[tData]
  end repeat
  return the keys of tNoDupesA
end RemoveDupesFrom

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Oct 19 20:37:17 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:37:17 -0700
Subject: OT: Looking for a cheap web hosting ISP
In-Reply-To: <4356DD91.2090106@tweedly.net>
References: <4356DD91.2090106@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <A85DA839-67A6-4C57-9954-8CC041409440@danshafer.com>

You cannot, in my opinion (backed by way too much research time) do  
better than DreamHost (http://www.dreamhost.com). Stephen Barncard,  
another Rev developer who frequents this list, turned me on to it.  
Not only inexpensive and fast and powerful, but great support and  
they keep increasing the amount of disk capacity and bandwidth you get.

Can't recommend them highly enough.

If you sign up and remember, you can put "dshafer' in as the referrer  
and I get a little prize of some sort. If not, don't worry. I don't  
do this for the prize!


On Oct 19, 2005, at 4:58 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Definitely off-topic - please delete if you're busy.
>
> I'm looking for a reasonable priced ISP to host some of my web  
> site. [reasonable == cheap !!]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Wed Oct 19 21:33:59 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:33:59 -0700
Subject: Revolution back to HyperCard
In-Reply-To: <43567C1B.2030403@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
	<p06200702bf75fc9179bd@[10.0.1.2]>	<43505714.1090205@fourthworld.com>
	<p06200705bf78a826b17c@[10.0.1.2]>	<4353172D.90609@fourthworld.com>
	<p06200703bf79b1763ac2@[10.0.1.2]> <43567C1B.2030403@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <p06200701bf7ca394a43e@[10.0.1.2]>

>
>Thanks, Tim.
>I gotta say, every time I see a post from Tim Miller in my In Box I 
>always look forward to reading it.  No matter what the topic, even 
>when discussing bugs and annoyances, you manage to convey and 
>infectious upbeat tone.  Thanks for being you.


You're very kind.

>
>
>>Richard wrote:
>>
>>>With SS, what does the result give you?  Does it produce a list of 
>>>found objects, or take you to them sequentially?
>>
>>It gives them to you sequentially, and it opens the script window 
>>on the first hit. After that, you use the "find next" button in the 
>>search-and-replace script window to get subsequent hits. It finds 
>>the desired strings pretty quick, though Rev finds them faster.
>
>Maybe I didn't understand the original post, but if HC's SS is 
>effectively only finding one instance at a time while Rev's is 
>searching for all, doesn't it stand to reason that Rev's will always 
>be slower?


It works about as fast as you can click the mouse. Rev is faster when 
searching for strings in scripts, though.

Regarding the rest of your nice post, snipped for the sake of 
netiquette, I think we see eye to eye. I appreciate your comments. 
See ya round the hood.


Tim


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Oct 19 22:15:02 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:15:02 -0700
Subject: OT: Looking for a cheap web hosting ISP
In-Reply-To: <A85DA839-67A6-4C57-9954-8CC041409440@danshafer.com>
References: <4356DD91.2090106@tweedly.net>
	<A85DA839-67A6-4C57-9954-8CC041409440@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <4356FDA6.6080004@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:
> You cannot, in my opinion (backed by way too much research time) do  
> better than DreamHost (http://www.dreamhost.com).

Do they support Rev CGI?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From soapdog at mac.com  Wed Oct 19 22:37:06 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:37:06 -0200
Subject: OT: Looking for a cheap web hosting ISP
In-Reply-To: <4356FDA6.6080004@fourthworld.com>
References: <4356DD91.2090106@tweedly.net>
	<A85DA839-67A6-4C57-9954-8CC041409440@danshafer.com>
	<4356FDA6.6080004@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <59205B36-BD3E-437E-89DE-7C47FDA51319@mac.com>

I use JaguarPC.net and never had any problem. It's cheap, fast, their  
support crew is fantastic and I am running Rev fine.

Cheers
andre

On Oct 20, 2005, at 12:15 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>> You cannot, in my opinion (backed by way too much research time)  
>> do  better than DreamHost (http://www.dreamhost.com).
>>
>
> Do they support Rev CGI?
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Oct 19 23:49:16 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:49:16 -0700
Subject: OT: Looking for a cheap web hosting ISP
In-Reply-To: <4356FDA6.6080004@fourthworld.com>
References: <4356DD91.2090106@tweedly.net>
	<A85DA839-67A6-4C57-9954-8CC041409440@danshafer.com>
	<4356FDA6.6080004@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <F8A7BBD3-442B-459D-823B-9A9B1FFCF46C@danshafer.com>

They are willing to run Rev CGI but so far we have been unable to do  
so. I haven't put any time into this but they put literally no  
restrictions on CGIs because each domain has its own set of CGI stuff.

I think there's a missing C library of some sort that stands between  
me and Rev CGI on Dreamhost but if I needed it I imagine I could get  
that fixed.

Dan

On Oct 19, 2005, at 7:15 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>> You cannot, in my opinion (backed by way too much research time)  
>> do  better than DreamHost (http://www.dreamhost.com).
>>
>
> Do they support Rev CGI?
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From soapdog at mac.com  Wed Oct 19 23:57:38 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 01:57:38 -0200
Subject: OT: Looking for a cheap web hosting ISP
In-Reply-To: <F8A7BBD3-442B-459D-823B-9A9B1FFCF46C@danshafer.com>
References: <4356DD91.2090106@tweedly.net>
	<A85DA839-67A6-4C57-9954-8CC041409440@danshafer.com>
	<4356FDA6.6080004@fourthworld.com>
	<F8A7BBD3-442B-459D-823B-9A9B1FFCF46C@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <A8F826B5-69CE-40D3-868A-02D29A62C53B@mac.com>

Dan,

if it still the same problem that I saw when I was there during  
RevConWest is a old version of libC (GLIBC), Rev is linked to a new  
one, it's hard to upgrade libc... I never tried, too spooky for me.

Cheers
andre


On Oct 20, 2005, at 1:49 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> They are willing to run Rev CGI but so far we have been unable to  
> do so. I haven't put any time into this but they put literally no  
> restrictions on CGIs because each domain has its own set of CGI stuff.
>
> I think there's a missing C library of some sort that stands  
> between me and Rev CGI on Dreamhost but if I needed it I imagine I  
> could get that fixed.
>
> Dan
>
> On Oct 19, 2005, at 7:15 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>
>> Dan Shafer wrote:
>>
>>
>>> You cannot, in my opinion (backed by way too much research time)  
>>> do  better than DreamHost (http://www.dreamhost.com).
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Do they support Rev CGI?
>>
>> -- 
>>  Richard Gaskin
>>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>>  ___________________________________________________________
>>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From scott at proherp.com  Thu Oct 20 00:05:28 2005
From: scott at proherp.com (Scott Kane)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:05:28 +1000
Subject: A New and Frustrated User
References: <20051018175836.66743.qmail@web86306.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<4356DCA2.5010603@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <001301c5d52b$832e5950$0201010a@proherpdwvlooj>


> You may also like to take a look at our altSQLite plugin demo stack, as 
> it's very simple and uses the revDB calls (generic) which apply to all 
> databases.

I second that.

Scott Kane



From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Oct 20 00:09:19 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:09:19 -0700
Subject: OT: Looking for a cheap web hosting ISP
In-Reply-To: <A8F826B5-69CE-40D3-868A-02D29A62C53B@mac.com>
References: <4356DD91.2090106@tweedly.net>
	<A85DA839-67A6-4C57-9954-8CC041409440@danshafer.com>
	<4356FDA6.6080004@fourthworld.com>
	<F8A7BBD3-442B-459D-823B-9A9B1FFCF46C@danshafer.com>
	<A8F826B5-69CE-40D3-868A-02D29A62C53B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <152D5DF0-3BAE-4F4C-A547-890F463D3E89@danshafer.com>

Yeah, I think it's the same problem, Andre.

Dan

On Oct 19, 2005, at 8:57 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Dan,
>
> if it still the same problem that I saw when I was there during  
> RevConWest is a old version of libC (GLIBC), Rev is linked to a new  
> one, it's hard to upgrade libc... I never tried, too spooky for me.
>
> Cheers
> andre
>
>
> On Oct 20, 2005, at 1:49 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>
>> They are willing to run Rev CGI but so far we have been unable to  
>> do so. I haven't put any time into this but they put literally no  
>> restrictions on CGIs because each domain has its own set of CGI  
>> stuff.
>>
>> I think there's a missing C library of some sort that stands  
>> between me and Rev CGI on Dreamhost but if I needed it I imagine I  
>> could get that fixed.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> On Oct 19, 2005, at 7:15 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Dan Shafer wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> You cannot, in my opinion (backed by way too much research time)  
>>>> do  better than DreamHost (http://www.dreamhost.com).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Do they support Rev CGI?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>  Richard Gaskin
>>>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>>>  ___________________________________________________________
>>>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Oct 20 00:20:09 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 02:20:09 -0200
Subject: OT: Looking for a cheap web hosting ISP
In-Reply-To: <152D5DF0-3BAE-4F4C-A547-890F463D3E89@danshafer.com>
References: <4356DD91.2090106@tweedly.net>
	<A85DA839-67A6-4C57-9954-8CC041409440@danshafer.com>
	<4356FDA6.6080004@fourthworld.com>
	<F8A7BBD3-442B-459D-823B-9A9B1FFCF46C@danshafer.com>
	<A8F826B5-69CE-40D3-868A-02D29A62C53B@mac.com>
	<152D5DF0-3BAE-4F4C-A547-890F463D3E89@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <E899E668-E185-492E-A81F-49C121D91548@mac.com>

Usually webhosts have farms of servers in different ages, if your is  
old (and you can check that by the version of the kernel and the libC  
version), you can always check with them if they can migrate your  
account to another box with newer specs... ;-)

cheers
andre


On Oct 20, 2005, at 2:09 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Yeah, I think it's the same problem, Andre.
>
> Dan
>
> On Oct 19, 2005, at 8:57 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>
>
>> Dan,
>>
>> if it still the same problem that I saw when I was there during  
>> RevConWest is a old version of libC (GLIBC), Rev is linked to a  
>> new one, it's hard to upgrade libc... I never tried, too spooky  
>> for me.
>>
>> Cheers
>> andre
>>
>>
>> On Oct 20, 2005, at 1:49 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> They are willing to run Rev CGI but so far we have been unable to  
>>> do so. I haven't put any time into this but they put literally no  
>>> restrictions on CGIs because each domain has its own set of CGI  
>>> stuff.
>>>
>>> I think there's a missing C library of some sort that stands  
>>> between me and Rev CGI on Dreamhost but if I needed it I imagine  
>>> I could get that fixed.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> On Oct 19, 2005, at 7:15 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dan Shafer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You cannot, in my opinion (backed by way too much research  
>>>>> time) do  better than DreamHost (http://www.dreamhost.com).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do they support Rev CGI?
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>>  Richard Gaskin
>>>>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>>>>  ___________________________________________________________
>>>>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Thu Oct 20 00:52:12 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:52:12 -0700
Subject: Saving Itself
Message-ID: <BF7C708C.394F9%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Hello,


When a user clicks the close box I don't want the confirm close dialog
popping up.  I thought this would do it by saving the stack first.

ON closeStack
    save this stack
    pass closeStack
END closeStack

But it doesn't.  Any ideas?

Thanks

Todd




-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Oct 20 01:02:51 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:02:51 -0500
Subject: Saving Itself
In-Reply-To: <BF7C708C.394F9%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
References: <BF7C708C.394F9%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <435724FB.6090303@chipp.com>

check out the closeStackRequest message.

Also, you cannot save a stack or substack which is part of a standalone.

Todd Geist wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> 
> When a user clicks the close box I don't want the confirm close dialog
> popping up.  I thought this would do it by saving the stack first.
> 
> ON closeStack
>     save this stack
>     pass closeStack
> END closeStack
>



From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Thu Oct 20 01:41:00 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:41:00 -0700
Subject: Saving Itself
In-Reply-To: <435724FB.6090303@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <BF7C7BFC.3950A%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>


On 10/19/05 10:02 PM, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:

> check out the closeStackRequest message.

Thanks!  I got confused there.  Thanks for clearing that up.


> 
> Also, you cannot save a stack or substack which is part of a standalone.

This much I do know.    One of the reasons I am using MagicCarpet AAA

:>)



Thanks

Todd


-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct 20 01:49:14 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:49:14 -0700
Subject: OT: Looking for a cheap web hosting ISP
In-Reply-To: <152D5DF0-3BAE-4F4C-A547-890F463D3E89@danshafer.com>
References: <4356DD91.2090106@tweedly.net>	<A85DA839-67A6-4C57-9954-8CC041409440@danshafer.com>	<4356FDA6.6080004@fourthworld.com>	<F8A7BBD3-442B-459D-823B-9A9B1FFCF46C@danshafer.com>	<A8F826B5-69CE-40D3-868A-02D29A62C53B@mac.com>
	<152D5DF0-3BAE-4F4C-A547-890F463D3E89@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <43572FDA.5030003@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:
> Yeah, I think it's the same problem, Andre.

I currenlty use an ISP that maintains a server farm preconfigured 
specifically for Rev CGI.  So while I'll stay there for now, this does 
raise a MUCH bigger question for those of us looking to sell server-side 
solutions:

Can Rev be compiled in such a way that it doesn't need the GUI libs 
while running as a CGI?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com



> Dan
> 
> On Oct 19, 2005, at 8:57 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:
> 
>> Dan,
>>
>> if it still the same problem that I saw when I was there during  
>> RevConWest is a old version of libC (GLIBC), Rev is linked to a new  
>> one, it's hard to upgrade libc... I never tried, too spooky for me.
>>
>> Cheers
>> andre
>>
>> On Oct 20, 2005, at 1:49 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>>> They are willing to run Rev CGI but so far we have been unable to  do 
>>> so. I haven't put any time into this but they put literally no  
>>> restrictions on CGIs because each domain has its own set of CGI  stuff.
>>>
>>> I think there's a missing C library of some sort that stands  between 
>>> me and Rev CGI on Dreamhost but if I needed it I imagine I  could get 
>>> that fixed.
>>>
>>> On Oct 19, 2005, at 7:15 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dan Shafer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You cannot, in my opinion (backed by way too much research time)  
>>>>> do  better than DreamHost (http://www.dreamhost.com).
>>>>
>>>> Do they support Rev CGI?



From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Oct 20 02:07:01 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 04:07:01 -0200
Subject: OT: Looking for a cheap web hosting ISP
In-Reply-To: <43572FDA.5030003@fourthworld.com>
References: <4356DD91.2090106@tweedly.net>
	<A85DA839-67A6-4C57-9954-8CC041409440@danshafer.com>
	<4356FDA6.6080004@fourthworld.com>
	<F8A7BBD3-442B-459D-823B-9A9B1FFCF46C@danshafer.com>
	<A8F826B5-69CE-40D3-868A-02D29A62C53B@mac.com>
	<152D5DF0-3BAE-4F4C-A547-890F463D3E89@danshafer.com>
	<43572FDA.5030003@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <7EBF68CE-256D-416B-9E4E-D95B5A56C025@mac.com>


On Oct 20, 2005, at 3:49 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I think it's the same problem, Andre.
>>
>
> I currenlty use an ISP that maintains a server farm preconfigured  
> specifically for Rev CGI.  So while I'll stay there for now, this  
> does raise a MUCH bigger question for those of us looking to sell  
> server-side solutions:
>
> Can Rev be compiled in such a way that it doesn't need the GUI libs  
> while running as a CGI?
>

Richard,

the problem I quoted is not related to the GUI libraries but related  
to the standard C library... If you run 'ldd mc' you'll see what  
libraries the metacard engine is linked to, for example

-jailshell-2.05b$ ldd mc
         linux-gate.so.1 =>  (0xffffe000)
         libdl.so.2 => /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x00341000)
         libX11.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 (0x4cba8000)
         libXext.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6 (0x4cc72000)
         libm.so.6 => /lib/tls/libm.so.6 (0x00347000)
         libc.so.6 => /lib/tls/libc.so.6 (0x00223000)
         /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x0020a000)


There you see libc.so.6... the problem in Dans webhost is a wrong  
version of libC, if he uses ldd then search for the file, he'll not  
find it... the server is using an older version of libC, he is  
probably using GLIB2.2 and needs 2.3...

If you execute libc.so.6 you receive further information like:

-jailshell-2.05b$ /lib/libc.so.6
GNU C Library stable release version 2.3.3, by Roland McGrath et al.
Copyright (C) 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.
There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A
PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
Compiled by GNU CC version 3.3.3 20040412 (Red Hat Linux 3.3.3-7).
Compiled on a Linux 2.4.20 system on 2004-10-28.
Available extensions:
         GNU libio by Per Bothner
         crypt add-on version 2.1 by Michael Glad and others
         linuxthreads-0.10 by Xavier Leroy
         The C stubs add-on version 2.1.2.
         BIND-8.2.3-T5B
         NIS(YP)/NIS+ NSS modules 0.19 by Thorsten Kukuk
         Glibc-2.0 compatibility add-on by Cristian Gafton
         GNU Libidn by Simon Josefsson
         libthread_db work sponsored by Alpha Processor Inc
Thread-local storage support included.
For bug reporting instructions, please see:
<http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/bugs.html>.


I do think he's running 2.2 or older and for that reason cannot run  
rev... (will run older rev versions though)

cheers
andre





> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
>
>
>> Dan
>> On Oct 19, 2005, at 8:57 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>>
>>> Dan,
>>>
>>> if it still the same problem that I saw when I was there during   
>>> RevConWest is a old version of libC (GLIBC), Rev is linked to a  
>>> new  one, it's hard to upgrade libc... I never tried, too spooky  
>>> for me.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> andre
>>>
>>> On Oct 20, 2005, at 1:49 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>>>
>>>> They are willing to run Rev CGI but so far we have been unable  
>>>> to  do so. I haven't put any time into this but they put  
>>>> literally no  restrictions on CGIs because each domain has its  
>>>> own set of CGI  stuff.
>>>>
>>>> I think there's a missing C library of some sort that stands   
>>>> between me and Rev CGI on Dreamhost but if I needed it I imagine  
>>>> I  could get that fixed.
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 19, 2005, at 7:15 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Dan Shafer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You cannot, in my opinion (backed by way too much research  
>>>>>> time)  do  better than DreamHost (http://www.dreamhost.com).
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Do they support Rev CGI?
>>>>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Thu Oct 20 02:07:08 2005
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 02:07:08 EDT
Subject: help with custom sort
Message-ID: <27.7c769104.30888e0c@aol.com>

Hi Ron

I found this synchronized list  sorting handler in the Scripter's Scrapbook. 
It may need a bit of tweaking for  rev, but may give you some ideas...

local lKeyData,  lLineCounter

on sortBy keyField -- parallel sorting of linked  flds
put fld keyField into lKeyData
put  "data1,data2,data3" into dataFields -- fill in your fld names  here
repeat with i = 1 to the number of items of  dataFields
put 0 into lLineCounter -- must be reset  prior to each sort
sort lines of fld (item i of  dataFields) by key()
end repeat
end sortBy

function  key
add 1 to lLineCounter
return line  lLineCounter of lKeyData
end key

Based on an old HyperCard script by  Brett Sher.

HTH

/H


-----
I have a field containing  several items including one for month/year pairs 
such as:
Oct 2005
Apr  2005
Feb 2004
Jan 2006
Apr 2005
Aug 2005

Is there any clever  way to get these lines sorted chronologically? What I've 
been doing so far is  generating a real date from them:
Oct 1, 2005
Apr 1, 2005
etc.
in a  hidden item and sorting that. 
This works but I'm betting there's a way to do  a custom sort thingee that 
works directly from the original values. But so far  I've come up with nada. Any 
clever ideas?

... Ron
-----  



From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Thu Oct 20 02:20:07 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:20:07 -0700
Subject: Toplevel vs Open vs start using
Message-ID: <BF7C8527.39511%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Hello,

I have used 3 different methods to "Open" a stack.

Open
  Just to open a stack and draw a window.

start using
    for opening a library file to get at it's functions and scripts.

Toplevel
    First I load a stack into a variable and then use toplevel and hide it.
I use this to open stacks that I use to store data in custom properties.

I am not clear on the distinctions here.  They all show up in the
application browser ( or Constellations Object Gadget).  I have lots of
questions but these will have to do.

Is a stack opened by "start using" just loaded into Memory but not opened?

Should I always call "Stop using" right after I am done with start using?

Does "toplevel" do the same thing as "Open"

Can I open stack invisibly?


Thanks  again

Todd


-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Oct 20 03:11:10 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 00:11:10 -0700
Subject: Filtering for uniqueness in a list
In-Reply-To: <4356E00C.9060608@tweedly.net>
References: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F801A3B5DD@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>
	<4356E00C.9060608@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <5053018015.20051020001110@ahsoftware.net>

Alex-

Wednesday, October 19, 2005, 5:08:44 PM, you wrote:

>> put myVar into otherVar
>> split otherVar by cr and TAB
>> put the keys of otherVar into otherVar

Dang! I never remember about split. Good one.

Congrats on the move to broadband, BTW.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct 20 04:31:49 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 03:31:49 -0500
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <6F75073E-7C28-4A47-B77D-FC386097EC06@scarlet.be>
Message-ID: <BF7CC025.2E3E2%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/19/05 8:20 AM, "Wouter" <wouter.abraham at scarlet.be> wrote:

> 
> On 18 Oct 2005, at 19:54, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> David Burgun wrote:
>> 
>>> You can't seem to get any information as to how many monitors are
>>> attached, or how big the Desktop is, this affects production
>>> software too. I was actually thinking of writing an external
>>> command to handle multiple monitors, the thing that has been
>>> putting me off is that I'd have to write it for Windows too, and I
>>> have no experience of programming at that level under Windows.
>>> 
>> 
>> Please consider adding your votes to this excellent suggestion from
>> Ben Rubinstein:
>> 
>> <http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=193>
>> 
> 
> Meanwhile on Mac OS X one can use shell:
> 
> put  shell("system_profiler -xml SPDisplaysDataType") into
> tXMLDisplayData
> 
> and parse this pList to extract the necessary information.

Actually I think this may only be on Tiger - I'm sitting here on Panther an
I don't have that data type...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct 20 04:37:10 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 03:37:10 -0500
Subject: OT: Looking for a cheap web hosting ISP - Go Hostway!
In-Reply-To: <4356DD91.2090106@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <BF7CC166.2E3E5%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/19/05 6:58 PM, "Alex Tweedly" <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:

> Definitely off-topic - please delete if you're busy.
> 
> I'm looking for a reasonable priced ISP to host some of my web site.
> [reasonable == cheap !!]

I would strongly recommend Hostway (www.hostway.com)... really fast servers,
full Rev CGI support (I'm running mine now), with low prices ($8.95 USD per
month for 150MB, $13.95 for the 'Gold' plan with 600MB of storage - I'm
using the 'Gold Plus' plan at $19.95 for 800MB of storage). The guy I spoke
with even let me try it out free for a month, with no strings attached!

Needless to say, I moved over to them two weeks later after testing it out.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Oct 20 04:37:56 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:37:56 +0100
Subject: Function to break apart a Long Name?
In-Reply-To: <1fc.c8888c6.3087108e@aol.com>
References: <1fc.c8888c6.3087108e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bf7d07512c8f@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

This assumes that the control I am processing is actually loaded into 
the Rev Environment which is isn't in this case. I am processing a 
text file that contains the long names of controls that were exported 
from a stack. I don't really want to load the stack and then dip into 
the control, for a number of reasons but the biggest one is that the 
stack may not be at the location it was at when the Text file was 
generated.

Thanks a lot
All the Best
Dave


>  >I'd use the short name in conjunction with the owner for this:
>>
>>    -- "myControl" is control "A" of group "B" of card "C" of stack "D"
>>    put the short name of myControl into myControlName
>>    put the short name of the owner of myControl into myGroupName
>>    put the short name of the owner of the owner of myControl into myCardName
>>    put the short name of the owner of the owner of the owner of
>>myControl into myStackName
>    Problem: If you use this on something that *isn't* in a group, myGroupName
>will end up being the name of a card; myCardName will be the stack name; and
>I'm not sure *what* myStackName will end up as. Also, what happens to the long
>name of a control that lives in a *substack*?
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct 20 04:39:57 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 03:39:57 -0500
Subject: Toplevel vs Open vs start using
In-Reply-To: <BF7C8527.39511%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <BF7CC20D.2E3EA%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/20/05 1:20 AM, "Todd Geist" <tg.lists at geistinteractive.com> wrote:

> I am not clear on the distinctions here.  They all show up in the
> application browser ( or Constellations Object Gadget).  I have lots of
> questions but these will have to do.
> 
> Is a stack opened by "start using" just loaded into Memory but not opened?

Yes.

> Should I always call "Stop using" right after I am done with start using?

Well, call it when you don't need the library anymore.
 
> Does "toplevel" do the same thing as "Open"

Sort of... "toplevel" opens a stack in the mode of "toplevel"; "open" will
open a stack in the mode it was saved in. So if you set the style of  a
stack to modelesss and saved it that way, "open" should open it modeless
(IIRC).

> Can I open stack invisibly?

Yes, do either "open inv <stackDescriptor>" or "go inv <stackDescriptor>".

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com




From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Thu Oct 20 05:49:42 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Wouter)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:49:42 +0200
Subject: Constellation's Great, But the Rev IDE Doesn't Suck
In-Reply-To: <BF7CC025.2E3E2%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF7CC025.2E3E2%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <FCA294BF-6F04-4EA7-8E97-1B9D034BEA43@scarlet.be>

Hi Ken,

Yes that is true, I couldn't test it on panther by lack of it.
  But should have asked around before mailing, sorry for the fuzz.

Greetings,
Wouter

On 20 Oct 2005, at 10:31, Ken Ray wrote:

- snip -

>>
>> Meanwhile on Mac OS X one can use shell:
>>
>> put  shell("system_profiler -xml SPDisplaysDataType") into
>> tXMLDisplayData
>>
>> and parse this pList to extract the necessary information.
>>
>
> Actually I think this may only be on Tiger - I'm sitting here on  
> Panther an
> I don't have that data type...
>
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Oct 20 06:43:45 2005
From: livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Samuel)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:43:45 +0100
Subject: OT: Mac Mail structure
Message-ID: <8C6D28E0-18B7-4C9A-9DB9-98522E122B24@blueyonder.co.uk>

I'm going to try to write a Rev app to fill a functional gap in  
Apple's Mail client (the annoying fact that you can't at a glance  
distinguish recently arrived emails from ones that came in to the  
same mailbox earlier but were left unread).  Probably the natural way  
to do this is with AppleScript, but I don't know AppleScript, and  
from what I've seen it's quite unintuitive in the way it interacts  
with the API of the OS. Anyway...

to do this without scanning an enormous number of messages each time,  
I think I need to be able to read the 'table_of_contents' and/or  
'content_index' files which appear in each mailbox. Can anyone  
suggest how I can find out the format for these - it sure ain't  
simple text.

TIA

Graham
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
---
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France



From ron at ecionmicroed.com  Thu Oct 20 08:46:09 2005
From: ron at ecionmicroed.com (Ron Noice)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 08:46:09 -0400
Subject: help with custom sort
In-Reply-To: <27.7c769104.30888e0c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200510208469.649418@msi98>

Thanks. I've adopted/adapted the previous idea and it worked well so I'm going to stick with it. But will keep your suggestion for future reference -- never can tell when these things will come in handy! Thanks.

... Ron

______________________________________________
*** From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com ?(FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
*** Dated: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 02:07:08 EDT

?Hi Ron

?I found this synchronized list ?sorting handler in the Scripter's Scrapbook.
?It may need a bit of tweaking for ?rev, but may give you some ideas...

?local lKeyData, ?lLineCounter

?on sortBy keyField -- parallel sorting of linked ?flds
?put fld keyField into lKeyData
?put ?"data1,data2,data3" into dataFields -- fill in your fld names ?here
?repeat with i = 1 to the number of items of ?dataFields
?put 0 into lLineCounter -- must be reset ?prior to each sort
?sort lines of fld (item i of ?dataFields) by key()
?end repeat
?end sortBy

?function ?key
?add 1 to lLineCounter
?return line ?lLineCounter of lKeyData
?end key

?Based on an old HyperCard script by ?Brett Sher.

?HTH

?/H


?-----
?I have a field containing ?several items including one for month/year pairs
?such as:
?Oct 2005
?Apr ?2005
?Feb 2004
?Jan 2006
?Apr 2005
?Aug 2005

?Is there any clever ?way to get these lines sorted chronologically? What I've
?been doing so far is ?generating a real date from them:
?Oct 1, 2005
?Apr 1, 2005
?etc.
?in a ?hidden item and sorting that.
?This works but I'm betting there's a way to do ?a custom sort thingee that
?works directly from the original values. But so far ?I've come up with nada. Any
?clever ideas?

?... Ron
?-----

?_______________________________________________
?use-revolution mailing list
?use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
?Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
?http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Oct 20 09:36:33 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:36:33 +0100
Subject: Filtering for uniqueness in a list
In-Reply-To: <5053018015.20051020001110@ahsoftware.net>
References: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F801A3B5DD@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>	<4356E00C.9060608@tweedly.net>
	<5053018015.20051020001110@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <43579D61.7080408@tweedly.net>

Mark Wieder wrote:

>Alex-
>
>Wednesday, October 19, 2005, 5:08:44 PM, you wrote:
>
>  
>
>>>put myVar into otherVar
>>>split otherVar by cr and TAB
>>>put the keys of otherVar into otherVar
>>>      
>>>
>
>Dang! I never remember about split. Good one.
>
>  
>
Yeah - I had to test it out to make sure it worked OK when the secondary 
delimiter (e.g. TAB) didn't occur in any line, so I was pleased to see 
it work.

>Congrats on the move to broadband, BTW.
>  
>
Thanks. Now that I can depend on connectivity (almost) all the time, I 
can try a few more interesting ways of dividing up applications between 
client and servers.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net

-------------- next part --------------
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/143 - Release Date: 19/10/2005

From stephen.lucas37 at btinternet.com  Tue Oct 18 13:48:15 2005
From: stephen.lucas37 at btinternet.com (Steve Lucas)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:48:15 +0100 (BST)
Subject: A New and Frustrated User
Message-ID: <20051018174816.11513.qmail@web86312.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hi All
 
I have been advised to contact yourselves for assistance in this matter.  I have recently purchased the enterprise edition of Revolution and trying hard to get to grips with scripting.  I feel that I am making progress, but my main area of concern is working with a database.
 
Can I be so bold as to ask someone to write a very short program for me so that I can see how all this scripting is put into place.  An ideal example would be for a personal record (Name, Address & Telephone) created using Microsoft Access, and then Revolution used to add new records to the database.  Revolution used to search for a particular record and Revolution used to edit an existing record.  These routines would clearly assist me in how these basic scripts are put together.
 
I have tried to use the Database Query Builder, but have only been successful in moving through the database.  Failing to update or even add new records.
 
I have recently purchased the altSQLite routine from Altuit in order to achieve the above.  I was beginning to get somewhere, but then when I installed the latest version of Revolution, this only completely froze my computer when I attempted to run a program which worked perfectly on the previous version of Revolution.  Unfortunately, Revolution and scripting is so new to me that I have yet to build any experience or competence, that I am unable to fathom out why this particular problem occurred, just by purely upgrading to a newer version.
 
I hope that I am not being 'too cheaky' to ask for this type of assistance.  But I do know that once I can have a good understanding of the basics, I will be able to progress further by experimenting.
 
I thank you all for taking time out to read this, and even more of a thank you to those who respond in order to give a new user a step up in the revolution field of programming.
 
Best Regards
Steve Lucas
 


From david at openpartenrship.net  Tue Oct 18 16:42:39 2005
From: david at openpartenrship.net (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:42:39 +0200
Subject: Open source collaboration [WAS: Re: Rev vs. AJAX... Ajax
	vs	TAOO]
In-Reply-To: <43553460.8040801@fourthworld.com>
References: <OF35B56E59.B560395E-ONC125709A.00264755-C125709A.00281EC5@deutsche-boerse	.com>
	<p06230904bf7582b038ac@[192.168.1.101]>	<4350635D.2010005@tweedly.net>
	<43518545.2020308@fourthworld.com>	<F7FD743C-8B76-4724-B142-9AE15663EEB4@openpartnership.net>	<12110241756.20051016110646@ahsoftware.net>	<1CDDEA47-1954-46E0-BA3A-970C830008FC@openpartnership.net>	<4352ACCB.9070206@fourthworld.com>	<230950294.20051016165154@ahsoftware.net>	<43531A3B.2040404@fourthworld.com>	<17555202877.20051016233607@ahsoftware.net>
	<FFAF4FF8-E87C-44C3-A9A6-3543426C1274@openpartnership.net>
	<43553460.8040801@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <9BEA4578-1CCA-4318-9CD8-205695183484@openpartenrship.net>

On 18 Oct 2005, at 19:44, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Is the desire for such a tool prevalent enough to translate into a  
> working tool?

Well due to the lack of "stack granularity" in my work - it is a  
little hard to share right now - but the tools were actually built a  
couple of years ago. Right now like you I see the problem as a mix of  
"social" but also "tool level". So the first tasks for me are:

     1) Get a few people working and and maintaining the same wiki
     2) Integrating the wiki into the Rev environment
     3) Getting the social and business incentives right - see  
"ransom" discussion earlier on the list.

Given that i guess the CVS / subversion tools with the object /  
handler chunking would have something to be built upon. This  
effectively means building a "market mechanism" for re-useable  
components - stacks and more granular if needed. The focus is to  
reduce the cost (in terms of productivity as well as real cash) for  
aquiring and using these components.

The idea is to use a secure digital currency that you can earn and  
use to pay others to work on your projects. You would be able to buy  
and possibly later sell this currency, if you did not have the time  
to earn it. When the ransom for a feature / component was paid the  
resulting code would be released open source.



From david at openpartenrship.net  Tue Oct 18 17:30:19 2005
From: david at openpartenrship.net (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:30:19 +0200
Subject: Constellation: any way to get equivalent of the selectedObject?
In-Reply-To: <90A514A0-F870-4333-A829-8A6445DDA704@conncoll.edu>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>	<a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>	<CC443F5E-30AC-4233-B7A8-EDD2B45F0334@danshafer.com>
	<EE555764-36F5-4908-AD88-BA08667B8409@conncoll.edu>
	<435535EC.2020809@fourthworld.com>
	<4B7D9C22-6B46-40A4-8D9A-BBBF170D805F@conncoll.edu>
	<90A514A0-F870-4333-A829-8A6445DDA704@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <E77BCBCD-7E71-49ED-B584-FBC2966B5715@openpartenrship.net>

Like the fact you can work with objects without actually selecting  
themn.... but how can you determine which object is "selected" from  
constellation from a script? In a bit of a consternation over this?


From david at openpartenrship.net  Wed Oct 19 04:07:14 2005
From: david at openpartenrship.net (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:07:14 +0200
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <p06200700bf7b484d3f5c@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <EABA4C82-1B01-47E5-8B88-147DC1C05DF0@lexicall.org>
	<p06200700bf7b484d3f5c@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <4BFA743C-E554-47AB-BF7D-6651D3A74DCC@openpartenrship.net>

On 19 Oct 2005, at 03:04, Timothy Miller wrote:

>  If Rev's native documentation can't be moved wholesale to a wiki,  
> with its hyperlinks, "see also" links, and so on, intact, for the  
> sake of wiki-type improving and supplementing, I fear too many  
> potential wiki users will be too daunted, and it just won't catch on.

Think this has already been done - by someone - at some time - no -  
or dreaming again?



From david at openpartenrship.net  Wed Oct 19 08:55:19 2005
From: david at openpartenrship.net (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:55:19 +0200
Subject: Multilingual dialogues
In-Reply-To: <OFFA038656.16483DFE-ONC125709F.003DF45D-C125709F.003E8025@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OFFA038656.16483DFE-ONC125709F.003DF45D-C125709F.003E8025@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <EDF71046-E753-4234-9CFF-D883EA0033D7@openpartenrship.net>

Just started work on setting up a generic way to provide multilingual  
dialogues in Rev. Lots of you have done this before... so from  
memeory the important things are:

     1) use external text files so that translators can easily use an  
editor to do their work
     2) Ask the translators to use TextEdit or the equivalent - not word

     3) Use an appropriate encoding... anything wrong with UTF8. I  
need English, German, and Eastern European languages for now....

Now in the circle I am in a lot of the translators are also  
programmers. So:

     a) Against the previous advice a Rev interface for the  
translators is tempting.

     b) I also have an outliner which can either use XML (UTF8) or  
separate text files. This would mean I could use a single XML file  
for each dialogue encoded in UTF8 - with the option of exporting as  
plain text files.

     c) The detailed issues regarding exporting from UTF8 to plain  
text in a way in which it can be edited by a plain text editor are  
new territory for me.

Structurally I am thinking of associating each dialogue with a unique  
object (usually the object that calls the dialog = the target) and  
being able to call / reuse the same dialogue from another object  
using a custom property .- something like:

     - put the answer_Dialogue["German"] of btn "Question" into  
someAnswer

Anyone have any advice or code to simplify this?


From david at openpartenrship.net  Thu Oct 20 08:59:33 2005
From: david at openpartenrship.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:59:33 +0200
Subject: Function keys when pointer key selected?
In-Reply-To: <4356C502.1090000@chipp.com>
References: <4356C502.1090000@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <E1C6D5B8-3C86-458A-A77D-1ABB40FEDDA1@openpartenrship.net>

Ages ago I used to be able to use function keys on Macs to manipulate  
selected objects?

Now it seems that a message is not sent, trapped by OSX or Rev IDE.  
Anyone know the story here?


From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Thu Oct 20 10:03:38 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:03:38 +0200
Subject: AW: AW: Lines, items, repeat loops, > not always what you think
In-Reply-To: <BF7A7824.2F275%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCAEBEDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hi Jim,

I'm sitting in a train and just found some time to go through your arguments.

> > put the number of lines in temp into lineCount
> > if the last char of temp  is return then add one to lineCount
> 
> .. if you are creating a list you should be aware of the style 
> that you use to generate it.  In more complete applications 
> where you arerelying on user input or other data sources, the
> 'empty' last item is a real item  that needs
> to be known as 'missing' or not 'filled in' (such as a form).

Yes, I agree, but this is what I meant with software dependency. 

> One example in a stack of cards.  A inventory list is kept as 
> "one card=one product".  
> -Sort cards by product name.
> -Build a list of prices from 1 to the number of cards by putting the price
> into line x of pricesCollected and all are collected
> -then repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in pricesCollected to find
> any missing entries.
> -If the last card has no price, 567 cards would only loop 566 times
> The last card needs to be fixed, but would not be done.
> Made a bit worse if you wanted to rank them the highest to lowest, sort
> descending would take any empty line and make it last, and a report would
> not publish the last line.

I think I see your problem, but it wouldn't happen to me, because I script slightly differently.
I would create my list pricesCollected like this:

put empty into pricesCollected 
repeat with i = 1 to (the number of cards of this stack)
	-- I don't know: Is there a "for each card" repeat loop?
	-- I'm on the wrong computer to check
	put (priceField of card i) & return after pricesCollected 
	-- usually much faster then "put into line i of pricesCollected" 
end repeat

Now pricesCollected has (number of lines) equal to the number of cards, and any missing value will appear as an empty line.
I think this is part of the xTalk philosophy: (Almost) everything is done in unstructured strings. You can think of your data as arrays (line i = a[i]), but it is much more efficient to deal with the first (or every) line and add lines at the end then accessing them individually. 

> I am doing SQL database table work and searching the tables for 
> missing and incorrect values.  I have to avoid 'sort descending'.

Again, it depends on your environment. If your SQL database gives you an additional return after each column you ask for, fine, if not, add one yourself. Similarly for lines: add a tab (or whatever) if needed. If you have the final character right, no sorting can screw up your numbers.
> 
> > put the number of lines in temp into lineCount
> > if the last char of temp  is return then add one to lineCount
> > would be more efficient and give the same result as your delimCount.
> The delimCount(string, delimiter) function can work with lines (cr) or any
> item delimeter (/ tab comma quote ^).

If you really need this, I would suggest to do it like that:

function delimCount strr, del
    put the itemDelimiter into saveDelim
    set the itemDelimiter to del
    get the number of items in strr
    if the last char of strr is del then add 1 to it
    set the itemDelimiter to saveDelim
    return it
end delimCount

This tested about 75 times faster on a list I tried. Only matters if you use this a lot, though.

All the best
Thomas



From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Thu Oct 20 10:05:34 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:05:34 +0200
Subject: AW: AW: Lines, items, repeat loops, > not always what you think
In-Reply-To: <BF7A7824.2F275%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCEEBKDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hi Jim,

I'm sitting in a train and just found some time to go through your arguments.

> > put the number of lines in temp into lineCount
> > if the last char of temp  is return then add one to lineCount
> 
> .. if you are creating a list you should be aware of the style 
> that you use to generate it.  In more complete applications 
> where you arerelying on user input or other data sources, the
> 'empty' last item is a real item  that needs
> to be known as 'missing' or not 'filled in' (such as a form).

Yes, I agree, but this is what I meant with software dependency. 

> One example in a stack of cards.  A inventory list is kept as 
> "one card=one product".  
> -Sort cards by product name.
> -Build a list of prices from 1 to the number of cards by putting the price
> into line x of pricesCollected and all are collected
> -then repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in pricesCollected to find
> any missing entries.
> -If the last card has no price, 567 cards would only loop 566 times
> The last card needs to be fixed, but would not be done.
> Made a bit worse if you wanted to rank them the highest to lowest, sort
> descending would take any empty line and make it last, and a report would
> not publish the last line.

I think I see your problem, but it wouldn't happen to me, because I script slightly differently.
I would create my list pricesCollected like this:

put empty into pricesCollected 
repeat with i = 1 to (the number of cards of this stack)
	-- I don't know: Is there a "for each card" repeat loop?
	-- I'm on the wrong computer to check
	put (priceField of card i) & return after pricesCollected 
	-- usually much faster then "put into line i of pricesCollected" 
end repeat

Now pricesCollected has (number of lines) equal to the number of cards, and any missing value will appear as an empty line.
I think this is part of the xTalk philosophy: (Almost) everything is done in unstructured strings. You can think of your data as arrays (line i = a[i]), but it is much more efficient to deal with the first (or every) line and add lines at the end then accessing them individually. 

> I am doing SQL database table work and searching the tables for 
> missing and incorrect values.  I have to avoid 'sort descending'.

Again, it depends on your environment. If your SQL database gives you an additional return after each column you ask for, fine, if not, add one yourself. Similarly for lines: add a tab (or whatever) if needed. If you have the final character right, no sorting can screw up your numbers.
> 
> > put the number of lines in temp into lineCount
> > if the last char of temp  is return then add one to lineCount
> > would be more efficient and give the same result as your delimCount.
> The delimCount(string, delimiter) function can work with lines (cr) or any
> item delimeter (/ tab comma quote ^).

If you really need this, I would suggest to do it like that:

function delimCount strr, del
    put the itemDelimiter into saveDelim
    set the itemDelimiter to del
    get the number of items in strr
    if the last char of strr is del then add 1 to it
    set the itemDelimiter to saveDelim
    return it
end delimCount

This tested about 75 times faster on a list I tried. Only matters if you use this a lot, though.

All the best
Thomas



From rmicout at online.fr  Thu Oct 20 10:20:01 2005
From: rmicout at online.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Micout?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:20:01 +0200
Subject: Metal button
Message-ID: <CEDD4D1A-88F1-4294-9C8D-E861CEA05D79@online.fr>

Hello,
How can I make "metal button aspect" like, for example, in iPhoto
Thank you
Ren?

From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Oct 20 10:32:27 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 07:32:27 -0700
Subject: Multilingual dialogues
In-Reply-To: <EDF71046-E753-4234-9CFF-D883EA0033D7@openpartenrship.net>
References: <OFFA038656.16483DFE-ONC125709F.003DF45D-C125709F.003E8025@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<EDF71046-E753-4234-9CFF-D883EA0033D7@openpartenrship.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20051020072914.01f043f0@pop3.pon.net>

Hi David,

>Just started work on setting up a generic way to provide multilingual
>dialogues in Rev.

Why focus on dialog-specific logic instead of generic, stack-wide 
multilingual capabilities?

Rob Cozens, CCW
Serendipity Software Company

Vive R Revolution! 



From herz at ucsd.edu  Thu Oct 20 10:44:13 2005
From: herz at ucsd.edu (Richard K. Herz)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 07:44:13 -0700
Subject: OT: Looking for a cheap web hosting ISP
In-Reply-To: <20051020053903.1856E825093@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051020053903.1856E825093@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4357AD3D.9020705@ucsd.edu>

andre wrote:
> I use JaguarPC.net and never had any problem. It's cheap, fast, their
 > support crew is fantastic and I am running Rev fine.

I also use www.jaguarpc.com and have done Rev CGI on it with no problem. 
Some history - I started using www.aletiahosting.com just because the 
MetaCard web site was on it at some point, then jaguarpc bought 
aletiahosting. Scott Raney made some recommendations concerning ISPs on 
the MC email list, including having your domain name registered at a 
different company than your web site host - he had some problems once.





From rev at armbase.com  Thu Oct 20 10:44:10 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:44:10 +0100
Subject: Metal button
In-Reply-To: <CEDD4D1A-88F1-4294-9C8D-E861CEA05D79@online.fr>
References: <CEDD4D1A-88F1-4294-9C8D-E861CEA05D79@online.fr>
Message-ID: <20051020154410.vg01yykaec8swgs0@webmail.armbase.com>

Quoting Ren? Micout <rmicout at online.fr>:

> Hello,
> How can I make "metal button aspect" like, for example, in iPhoto

You could do what I did and buy Button-Gadget Pro from Altuit.
http://www.buttongadget.com/buttongadget/AboutButtonGadget.htm
Her you can see a screenshot.

I beleive ity is written in rev and there is a rev-plugin version.
It is also made by Chipp. He is on the list here so is always available 
to help.

I have no affiliation with Altuit.
If you dont have them already... then other rev things I would recomend are
Scripters scrapbook
MagicCarpet
install Gadget
Constellation and
Scott Rossi's align thingy.


Cheers
bob




From harvey.toyama at qlogic.com  Thu Oct 20 10:49:27 2005
From: harvey.toyama at qlogic.com (Harvey Toyama)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 07:49:27 -0700
Subject: Filtering for uniqueness in a list
Message-ID: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F801A3B685@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>

Hi Alex and Mark,
Thanks both of you for your advice. I used both techniques, they both
work, but I'll settle on the "split". It took me a while to figure out
why it works.

I had overlooked the "warning" in the split definition in prior reading.
Next time I'll pay more attention to the warnings -- better yet, I'll
regard "warning" as "opportunity".

Thanks,
-- Harvey
-- 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Alex
Tweedly
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:37 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Filtering for uniqueness in a list

Mark Wieder wrote:

>Alex-
>
>Wednesday, October 19, 2005, 5:08:44 PM, you wrote:
>
>  
>
>>>put myVar into otherVar
>>>split otherVar by cr and TAB
>>>put the keys of otherVar into otherVar
>>>      
>>>
>
>Dang! I never remember about split. Good one.
>
>  
>
Yeah - I had to test it out to make sure it worked OK when the secondary

delimiter (e.g. TAB) didn't occur in any line, so I was pleased to see 
it work.

>Congrats on the move to broadband, BTW.
>  
>
Thanks. Now that I can depend on connectivity (almost) all the time, I 
can try a few more interesting ways of dividing up applications between 
client and servers.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net




From rmicout at online.fr  Thu Oct 20 10:51:35 2005
From: rmicout at online.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Micout?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:51:35 +0200
Subject: Metal button
In-Reply-To: <20051020154410.vg01yykaec8swgs0@webmail.armbase.com>
References: <CEDD4D1A-88F1-4294-9C8D-E861CEA05D79@online.fr>
	<20051020154410.vg01yykaec8swgs0@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <F8997974-ABFD-4E85-BC97-A94E7C14E938@online.fr>

Thank you from Paris
Ren?

Le 20 oct. 05 ? 16:44, rev at armbase.com a ?crit :

> Quoting Ren? Micout <rmicout at online.fr>:
>
>
>> Hello,
>> How can I make "metal button aspect" like, for example, in iPhoto
>>
>
> You could do what I did and buy Button-Gadget Pro from Altuit.
> http://www.buttongadget.com/buttongadget/AboutButtonGadget.htm
> Her you can see a screenshot.
>
> I beleive ity is written in rev and there is a rev-plugin version.
> It is also made by Chipp. He is on the list here so is always  
> available
> to help.
>
> I have no affiliation with Altuit.
> If you dont have them already... then other rev things I would  
> recomend are
> Scripters scrapbook
> MagicCarpet
> install Gadget
> Constellation and
> Scott Rossi's align thingy.
>
>
> Cheers
> bob
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Oct 20 11:03:04 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 08:03:04 -0700
Subject: Multilingual dialogues
In-Reply-To: <EDF71046-E753-4234-9CFF-D883EA0033D7@openpartenrship.net>
References: <OFFA038656.16483DFE-ONC125709F.003DF45D-C125709F.003E8025@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<EDF71046-E753-4234-9CFF-D883EA0033D7@openpartenrship.net>
Message-ID: <4B60340F-377C-4EF3-A7A3-95FA3C0AB706@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 19, 2005, at 5:55 AM, David Bovill wrote:
>
> Structurally I am thinking of associating each dialogue with a  
> unique object (usually the object that calls the dialog = the  
> target) and being able to call / reuse the same dialogue from  
> another object using a custom property .- something like:
>
>     - put the answer_Dialogue["German"] of btn "Question" into  
> someAnswer
>
> Anyone have any advice or code to simplify this?

Here are my thoughts on this.

One way to handle this is to have a stack named "language" in memory  
and the name of the language on disk.  It contains all translated  
strings for a given langauge in a custom property set.  The set might  
look like this:

uLanguage["tt.MyTooltip"]
uLanguage["dlg.AskForFile"]
etc.

After finishing your primary language file, you can write a routine  
which will take all of the custom properties of this stack and export  
a key/value pair to a file that your translators can translate.  Then  
you can have an importer which reads the file and creates a new  
language stack for German, French, etc.

Now write a function for retrieving the strings easily.  If you  
needed to do any modifications (switch encodings, etc.) to the string  
before returning it you could do it here.  The function will access  
the string of whatever language stack file is currently loaded into  
memory.

function getString pKey
     return the uLanguage[pKey] of stack "language"
end getString

Now to call a dialog just do this:

answer getString("dlg.AskForFile")


You can simplify setting tooltips and field text values by using code  
like this when a stack opens for the first time.  It just looks for  
custom properties of controls that specify what key in the language  
stack to use for that control.

repeat with i = 1 to the number of cards of this stack
     repeat with j = 1 to the number of controls of this stack
         if the uLocale["tooltip"] of control j of card i of this  
stack is not empty then
             set the tooltip of control j of card i of this stack to \
                 getString(the uLocale["tooltip"] of control j of  
card i of this stack)
         end if

         if the uLocale["text"] of control j of card i of this stack  
is not empty then
             set the text of control j of card i of this stack to \
                 getString(the uLocale["tooltip"] of control j of  
card i of this stack)
         end if
     end repeat
end repeat

Anyway, just some thoughts.

David - I've tried answering the email you sent me but it keeps  
getting bounced.  I've tried a couple of accounts but I think I am  
not on your spam list.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From rmicout at online.fr  Thu Oct 20 11:17:17 2005
From: rmicout at online.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Micout?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:17:17 +0200
Subject: Metal button
In-Reply-To: <F8997974-ABFD-4E85-BC97-A94E7C14E938@online.fr>
References: <CEDD4D1A-88F1-4294-9C8D-E861CEA05D79@online.fr>
	<20051020154410.vg01yykaec8swgs0@webmail.armbase.com>
	<F8997974-ABFD-4E85-BC97-A94E7C14E938@online.fr>
Message-ID: <7AF0BB0C-BBFB-48CC-9A18-D7E6886B37C9@online.fr>

Precision : How can I make "metal button aspect" like, for example,  
in iPhoto in Mac OS X Tiger environnement ?
Thank you
Ren?

Le 20 oct. 05 ? 16:51, Ren? Micout a ?crit :

> Thank you from Paris
> Ren?
>
> Le 20 oct. 05 ? 16:44, rev at armbase.com a ?crit :
>
>
>> Quoting Ren? Micout <rmicout at online.fr>:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> How can I make "metal button aspect" like, for example, in iPhoto
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You could do what I did and buy Button-Gadget Pro from Altuit.
>> http://www.buttongadget.com/buttongadget/AboutButtonGadget.htm
>> Her you can see a screenshot.
>>
>> I beleive ity is written in rev and there is a rev-plugin version.
>> It is also made by Chipp. He is on the list here so is always  
>> available
>> to help.
>>
>> I have no affiliation with Altuit.
>> If you dont have them already... then other rev things I would  
>> recomend are
>> Scripters scrapbook
>> MagicCarpet
>> install Gadget
>> Constellation and
>> Scott Rossi's align thingy.
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>> bob
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Oct 20 11:35:06 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:35:06 +0200
Subject: Metal button
In-Reply-To: <7AF0BB0C-BBFB-48CC-9A18-D7E6886B37C9@online.fr>
References: <CEDD4D1A-88F1-4294-9C8D-E861CEA05D79@online.fr>
	<20051020154410.vg01yykaec8swgs0@webmail.armbase.com>
	<F8997974-ABFD-4E85-BC97-A94E7C14E938@online.fr>
	<7AF0BB0C-BBFB-48CC-9A18-D7E6886B37C9@online.fr>
Message-ID: <C658BA7C-26FF-4BE9-ABF6-1A9B2B1E684E@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bonjour Ren?,

Le 20 oct. 05 ? 17:17, Ren? Micout a ?crit :

> Precision : How can I make "metal button aspect" like, for example,  
> in iPhoto in Mac OS X Tiger environnement ?

You can specify 5 specific icons for any button (normal, highlighted,  
disabled, visited and armed).
Just create the images you need for these icons by capturing iPhoto  
buttons and modifying them using PhotoShop for instance.
Save the images as png to keep transparency if needed.
Use these images as icons for a button.

To get an idea of the result, you could have a look at the plugins  
section of my website: all my plugins for Revolution use such a way  
to display "brushed metal" buttons.
If you need further explanations, write to me off list... in French ;-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From shedrup at ms9.hinet.net  Thu Oct 20 11:39:13 2005
From: shedrup at ms9.hinet.net (Friedrich F. Grohmann)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 23:39:13 +0800
Subject: "find" fiasco
Message-ID: <200510201541.XAA26485@msr41.hinet.net>

I have a rather simple stack with text in fields on a number of cards 
(Rev 2.6 under Mac OS 10.3.2). The text is in Chinese. 

In order to look for other instances of a term found on the present card 
(in fld ID 1003) I'm using a "find selection" button the script of which 
is as follows:

on mouseUp
  put the selectedText of fld ID 1003 into SelCh
  go to cd "Single Line" of stack "Message Box"
  put "find" && quote&SelCh&quote into fld "Message Field"/
     of cd "Single Line" of stack "Message Box"
  select after text of fld "Message Field" of cd "Single Line" of stack 
"Message Box"
end mouseUp

I'm not sure whether there is anything wrong with this script but the 
following things happen:

1) With some words, the first instance (on the present) card is indicated 
by the box and with each further hit of the return key one proceeds to 
the next card where the term is found.

2) In the case of other words, the instance on the present card is not 
identified and only one other card is found, although the term actually 
occurs on a number of cards.

3) There are still other words in case of which the response is simply 
"not found".

4) I've run into so far one case where no instance is indicated and I am 
told

          Script compile error:
          Error: Script: missing "" after literal

5) There was another word, where no box was drawn at all but all 
instances were found. 

This scenario is very bewildering, to say the least. Is there any mistake 
in the logic of the script or do I miss some other subtle detail? Any 
help highly appreciated.

Fritz


From rmicout at online.fr  Thu Oct 20 11:59:32 2005
From: rmicout at online.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Micout?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:59:32 +0200
Subject: Metal button
In-Reply-To: <C658BA7C-26FF-4BE9-ABF6-1A9B2B1E684E@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <CEDD4D1A-88F1-4294-9C8D-E861CEA05D79@online.fr>
	<20051020154410.vg01yykaec8swgs0@webmail.armbase.com>
	<F8997974-ABFD-4E85-BC97-A94E7C14E938@online.fr>
	<7AF0BB0C-BBFB-48CC-9A18-D7E6886B37C9@online.fr>
	<C658BA7C-26FF-4BE9-ABF6-1A9B2B1E684E@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <D9D2BE90-2D5A-416C-9BE0-509EA250456C@online.fr>

Merci ? Eric Chatonet dont j'avais acquis, en d'autres temps, la pile  
"Tout pour Hypercard"
Ren?

Le 20 oct. 05 ? 17:35, Eric Chatonet a ?crit :

> Bonjour Ren?,
>
> Le 20 oct. 05 ? 17:17, Ren? Micout a ?crit :
>
>
>> Precision : How can I make "metal button aspect" like, for  
>> example, in iPhoto in Mac OS X Tiger environnement ?
>>
>
> You can specify 5 specific icons for any button (normal,  
> highlighted, disabled, visited and armed).
> Just create the images you need for these icons by capturing iPhoto  
> buttons and modifying them using PhotoShop for instance.
> Save the images as png to keep transparency if needed.
> Use these images as icons for a button.
>
> To get an idea of the result, you could have a look at the plugins  
> section of my website: all my plugins for Revolution use such a way  
> to display "brushed metal" buttons.
> If you need further explanations, write to me off list... in  
> French ;-)
>
> Best Regards from Paris,
>
> Eric Chatonet.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> So Smart Software
>
> For institutions, companies and associations
> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From irog at mac.com  Thu Oct 20 12:04:20 2005
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:04:20 -0700
Subject: Saving Itself
In-Reply-To: <20051020053903.3BD9D8250AA@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051020053903.3BD9D8250AA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3AD0AA5A-9558-4CAF-BD5C-C27C2D43D84A@mac.com>

Todd,

Sorry to butt in, but could you tell me what MagicCarpet AAA is and  
how it addresses your save needs?

Thanks, Roger


On Oct 19, 2005, at 10:39 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com  
wrote:

> This much I do know.    One of the reasons I am using MagicCarpet AAA
>
> :>)
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Todd
>



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 20 12:32:34 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:32:34 -0700
Subject: AW: AW: Lines, items, repeat loops, > not always what you think
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCAEBEDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <BF7D14B2.2F512%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Very good response, Thomas.
I am focused on other issues in my software development and appreciate that
you took the time to visit this issue.
Bottom line for me is to move data out of and into tables using SQL doing
maintenance in the process.  Adding characters to the data grid may be
necessary, but I don't want them going back into the tables, so I will have
to strip them out. Parallel sorting of containers is my next set of
functions to implement, so I will see what I decide.

Thanks for the improved function for counting items.  Speed will be an issue
later.

By the way, you don't have to save the old itemDel.  When calling a function
or procedure, moving to that handler uses a default delim of "," or the one
that is set in that handler.  Eg. if you set the itemdel to tab, then called
a function, set the itemdel to space, then returned to the first handler,
the itemdel would again be a tab.  This means the scope of the itemDel is
only within the handler (local).

At the moment I will go forward with avoiding the sort descending unless I
after the sort I test for the last char, and your version of the delimCount
function.

I am not really willing to be adding spurious characters to my database just
to the Rev sorts and repeat loops will always work.

Thanks for the good work.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 10/20/05 7:03 AM, "Thomas Fischer" <fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
wrote:

> Hi Jim,
> 
> I'm sitting in a train and just found some time to go through your arguments.
> 
>>> put the number of lines in temp into lineCount
>>> if the last char of temp  is return then add one to lineCount
>> 
>> .. if you are creating a list you should be aware of the style
>> that you use to generate it.  In more complete applications
>> where you arerelying on user input or other data sources, the
>> 'empty' last item is a real item  that needs
>> to be known as 'missing' or not 'filled in' (such as a form).
> 
> Yes, I agree, but this is what I meant with software dependency.
> 
>> One example in a stack of cards.  A inventory list is kept as
>> "one card=one product".
>> -Sort cards by product name.
>> -Build a list of prices from 1 to the number of cards by putting the price
>> into line x of pricesCollected and all are collected
>> -then repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in pricesCollected to find
>> any missing entries.
>> -If the last card has no price, 567 cards would only loop 566 times
>> The last card needs to be fixed, but would not be done.
>> Made a bit worse if you wanted to rank them the highest to lowest, sort
>> descending would take any empty line and make it last, and a report would
>> not publish the last line.
> 
> I think I see your problem, but it wouldn't happen to me, because I script
> slightly differently.
> I would create my list pricesCollected like this:
> 
> put empty into pricesCollected
> repeat with i = 1 to (the number of cards of this stack)
> -- I don't know: Is there a "for each card" repeat loop?
> -- I'm on the wrong computer to check
> put (priceField of card i) & return after pricesCollected
> -- usually much faster then "put into line i of pricesCollected"
> end repeat
> 
> Now pricesCollected has (number of lines) equal to the number of cards, and
> any missing value will appear as an empty line.
> I think this is part of the xTalk philosophy: (Almost) everything is done in
> unstructured strings. You can think of your data as arrays (line i = a[i]),
> but it is much more efficient to deal with the first (or every) line and add
> lines at the end then accessing them individually.
> 
>> I am doing SQL database table work and searching the tables for
>> missing and incorrect values.  I have to avoid 'sort descending'.
> 
> Again, it depends on your environment. If your SQL database gives you an
> additional return after each column you ask for, fine, if not, add one
> yourself. Similarly for lines: add a tab (or whatever) if needed. If you have
> the final character right, no sorting can screw up your numbers.
I am not really willing to be adding spurious characters to my database just
to the Rev sorts and repeat loops will always work.
>> 
>>> put the number of lines in temp into lineCount
>>> if the last char of temp  is return then add one to lineCount
>>> would be more efficient and give the same result as your delimCount.
>> The delimCount(string, delimiter) function can work with lines (cr) or any
>> item delimeter (/ tab comma quote ^).
> 
> If you really need this, I would suggest to do it like that:
> 
> function delimCount strr, del
>     put the itemDelimiter into saveDelim
>     set the itemDelimiter to del
>     get the number of items in strr
>     if the last char of strr is del then add 1 to it
>     set the itemDelimiter to saveDelim
>     return it
> end delimCount
> 
> This tested about 75 times faster on a list I tried. Only matters if you use
> this a lot, though.
> 
> All the best
> Thomas
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From tg.lists at geistinteractive.com  Thu Oct 20 12:46:50 2005
From: tg.lists at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:46:50 -0700
Subject: Saving Itself
In-Reply-To: <3AD0AA5A-9558-4CAF-BD5C-C27C2D43D84A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BF7D180A.3960B%tg.lists@geistinteractive.com>

Hi Roger,

On 10/20/05 9:04 AM, "Roger Guay" <irog at mac.com> wrote:
> Todd,
> 
> Sorry to butt in, but could you tell me what MagicCarpet AAA is and
> how it addresses your save needs?
> 
> Thanks, Roger


MagicCarpet AAA stands for

     "MagicCarpet  Auto-update Application Architecture"

This is a way of building Rev applications that update over the web and rely
upon the MagicCarpet Version Control Software from Altuit

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/MagicCarpetCover/default.htm

One of the key features is that there is only one very simply stack that is
part of the standalone. The vast majority of the code for the app exists in
regular stacks that are not part of the standalone and there for can be
"saved to".

I think another term for this type of architecture is the "Splash Screen"
App. Since it is often only the splash screen that is bound to the runtime.

HTH 

Todd

-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Thu Oct 20 13:18:49 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:18:49 -0700
Subject: OT: Looking for a cheap web hosting ISP - Go Dreamhost!
In-Reply-To: <BF7CC166.2E3E5%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF7CC166.2E3E5%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <p06230900bf7d7d41cf48@[192.168.1.104]>

Dreamhost has been adding new features, more bandwidth, and more 
storage every month for each customer. They always seem to give more 
stuff as time goes on, with no increase in price. I know it sounds 
idealistic, but its true. And there's now no limit to the number of 
real domains. They also offer more  programming tools than anyone 
else. All the servers are Debian Linux and the focus is definitely 
non-Microsoft but they'll let you host a Frontpage document if you 
really have to. They're currently running 4.1.14-Debian_3.

Their servers are in the Long Beach area, connected directly to one 
of the biggest pipes in the country through multiple ports. Their 
uptime is extraordinary (and they tell you what is happening when in 
the rare case it's not up with an out-of-their-network web page) and 
the control panel software (that they wrote) is really good - Point 
and click for all server functions. Finally they are Linux/Perl/Open 
Source geeks and have included 'one click' installs for many goodies 
including Gallery and Wordpress.

I spent a couple of years searching for a host like this. I usually 
don't evangelize anymore, but this is a good one. They have great 
plans for around 10 buck/month and their 'Code Monster' plan for 20 
is also useful to me.

>On 10/19/05 6:58 PM, "Alex Tweedly" <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:
>  > I'm looking for a reasonable priced ISP to host some of my web site.
>>  [reasonable == cheap !!]
>
>I would strongly recommend Hostway (www.hostway.com)... really fast servers,
>full Rev CGI support (I'm running mine now), with low prices ($8.95 USD per
>month for 150MB, $13.95 for the 'Gold' plan with 600MB of storage - I'm
>using the 'Gold Plus' plan at $19.95 for 800MB of storage). The guy I spoke
>with even let me try it out free for a month, with no strings attached!
>
>Ken Ray

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -

From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Thu Oct 20 13:27:54 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:27:54 -0700
Subject: Metal button
In-Reply-To: <20051020154410.vg01yykaec8swgs0@webmail.armbase.com>
References: <CEDD4D1A-88F1-4294-9C8D-E861CEA05D79@online.fr>
	<20051020154410.vg01yykaec8swgs0@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <p06230901bf7d83052924@[192.168.1.104]>

Except there is NO $%^##$% MAC VERSION of Button Gadget...

long, long ago, there used to be...OS9?
It had a few bugs but it worked...

I've been meaning to ask Chipp:
What is it about Windoze that makes it work? Wasn't it written in Transcript?
Or is it just about priorities/time (which I fully understand)?


>Quoting Ren? Micout <rmicout at online.fr>:
>
>>Hello,
>>How can I make "metal button aspect" like, for example, in iPhoto
>
>You could do what I did and buy Button-Gadget Pro from Altuit.
>http://www.buttongadget.com/buttongadget/AboutButtonGadget.htm
>Her you can see a screenshot.
>
>bob

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Oct 20 13:35:55 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:35:55 -0700
Subject: Pre-Fab Profile Set?
Message-ID: <51ED258F-55AC-4942-B18F-F6308B42C0D1@danshafer.com>

I've been doing a lot of thinking and exploring the issue of code/ 
component reuse in Rev the last week or so. Yeah, I know; I really  
need to get out more.

It occurred to me that Profiles, which are designed to deal with the  
need for various versions of a stack/app in different languages and  
with different OS deployments, are probably the "right" (i.e., Rev- 
preferred) way to deal with the few but sticky cross-platform issues  
we face all the time such as fonts. Then it occurred to me to wonder  
if anyone has written a sort of pre-fab set of profiles that could be  
integrated into a Rev app so that the fonts, field spacing and other  
issues that crop up from time to time would be handled semi- 
automagically at runtime.

Has anyone done such a thing? Any ideas for approaching this? Anyone  
want to offer to provide something like this? I don't have a current  
need for it but it seems to me that it could almost become a  
requisite part of any new app I write that's destined for multi- 
platform deployment.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Thu Oct 20 13:39:12 2005
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:39:12 -0500
Subject: Constellation: any way to get equivalent of the selectedObject?
In-Reply-To: <E77BCBCD-7E71-49ED-B584-FBC2966B5715@openpartenrship.net>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>	<a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>	<CC443F5E-30AC-4233-B7A8-EDD2B45F0334@danshafer.com>
	<EE555764-36F5-4908-AD88-BA08667B8409@conncoll.edu>
	<435535EC.2020809@fourthworld.com>
	<4B7D9C22-6B46-40A4-8D9A-BBBF170D805F@conncoll.edu>
	<90A514A0-F870-4333-A829-8A6445DDA704@conncoll.edu>
	<E77BCBCD-7E71-49ED-B584-FBC2966B5715@openpartenrship.net>
Message-ID: <971F401E-80C7-4B27-891C-BD5CF425AA52@daniels-mara.com>

David,

First of all, the feature "no-click" inspection is a feature of  
Inspection Gadget which works with either Constellation OR the Rev  
script/prop editors.

We USED TO select the object during no-click inspection--if the  
pointer was chosen.

However: that became problematic because the user didn't explicitly  
select the object and sometimes said user took subsequent actions to  
do something to the selected object they hadn't intended--like delete  
it with an accidental backspace or something!

SO...now we don't select the object during no-click inspection, but  
there are three clear indications as to the identity of the current  
object you're working IF you're using Constellation:

1. The TITLE of Constellation's window has the full name of the  
object you're editing.
2. The TAB that is dedicated to that object has the name of the object
3. The PREVIEW (or copy) of the object is shown

We figured after all that, it wasn't necessary to select the object  
during no-click inspection and risk the user forgetting that the  
object WAS selected.

Hope that helps.

Jerry

http://www.daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm
Scripts and properties in a tabbed editor!

On Oct 18, 2005, at 4:30 PM, David Bovill wrote:

> Like the fact you can work with objects without actually selecting  
> themn.... but how can you determine which object is "selected" from  
> constellation from a script? In a bit of a consternation over this?
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Thu Oct 20 14:46:00 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:46:00 -0500
Subject: combo box/option button
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051020134347.17e7e450@exchange.slg.com>

There seems to be a bug in the combo box/option button.  If you click on 
the arrow multiple times, the menu goes away without a selection being 
made.  Has anyone else seen this?  It seems fairly easy to reproduce.  If 
you click quickly enough.  Not sure if the click is being sent to the card 
by mistake or what.  It leaves the option with nothing selected.

Any suggestions on how to work around this?

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Thu Oct 20 15:03:24 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:03:24 -0700
Subject: Revolution back to HyperCard
In-Reply-To: <43567C1B.2030403@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF758BD7.2F07A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
	<p06200702bf75fc9179bd@[10.0.1.2]>	<43505714.1090205@fourthworld.com>
	<p06200705bf78a826b17c@[10.0.1.2]>	<4353172D.90609@fourthworld.com>
	<p06200703bf79b1763ac2@[10.0.1.2]> <43567C1B.2030403@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <p06200700bf7d99073405@[10.0.1.2]>

Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>Sounds like a job for another cool plugin.  Anyone got a Find plugin handy?
>

I been wondrin, so I might as well ask.

I get the impression that few, if any XCMDs or XFCNs have been 
written for Rev because its engine and native language are fast 
enough to make them unnecessary.

Correct? Exceptions to the rule?

So, then, what's a plug-in? Is it basically a utility stack?

Thanks,


Tim


From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Thu Oct 20 15:07:53 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:07:53 -0500
Subject: Group confusion
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051020140454.17e7df30@exchange.slg.com>

Ok, I though I understood how groups worked.  If I have a group on multiple 
cards and I edit the group (adding a label, in this example), shouldn't 
that label automatically appear on all the cards containing that group?

That isn't want happened.  I had to go and add the field to each card.  The 
slider I added to the group did, however, magically appear on all cards 
containing that group.  Why the difference?

Does it have something to do with the shared text property? I didn't think 
to check that.  This seems inconsistent behavor.

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Oct 20 15:22:52 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:22:52 -0700
Subject: Filtering for uniqueness in a list
In-Reply-To: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F801A3B685@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>
References: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F801A3B685@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>
Message-ID: <11312991410.20051020122252@ahsoftware.net>

Harvey-

Thursday, October 20, 2005, 7:49:27 AM, you wrote:

> work, but I'll settle on the "split". It took me a while to figure out
> why it works.

I think the "split" technique should be faster as well, although I
haven't benchmarked it.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Oct 20 15:21:28 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:21:28 -0700
Subject: [ANN] tm|numeric Plugin
In-Reply-To: <435677EB.1010402@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BF7D3C48.23319%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Jerry Daniels wrote:
> After a couple hundred test cycles and hundreds of suggestions on
> design and UI, I have decided that no two people want the same IDE.

And Mark Weider replied:
> ...and in a funny sort of way, I kind of like it like that. I'm fully
> into celebrating diversity, not just living with it.

And Richard Gaskin also chimed in:
> Well said.  That's one of the beautiful things about Rev's plugin
> architecture and that most of its scripts are exposed:  the
> opportunities for extensibility are boundless.

Well, ok then, how about another slice of diversity?

Today I'm announcing another small plugin for the IDE of your choice:
tm|numeric.  This plugin acts as a numerical display and editor for stack
development, dynamically showing values for stacks and selected object's
width, height, layer, and x/y position, as well as the object's name and
number.  You can double click any displayed value (except number) to edit
the value and apply it to the selected object.  It's a really fast way to
edit your controls numerically.

This plugin also introduces a new editing method we're trying out:
scroll-editing. By clicking and holding on a displayed value, one can
increase or decrease the value simply by moving the mouse up and down,
without the need to type in a value.

tm|numeric very simple and very small, which is in keeping with our
philosophy about these types of tools: keep them small and out of your way.
Yes, size really does matter.

tm|numeric was built to work with the Revolution and MetaCard IDEs, on
Windows and MacOS, as well as with Constellation, the powerful stack editor
developed by Daniels & Mara, Inc.
<http://www.daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm>
We've tried to make this plugin as IDE-compatible as possible -- of course,
if you run across any issues, please let us know.

tm|numeric is available for US$12 via PayPal (an account is not required).
Please visit the 'Media' section of our Web site
<http://www.tactilemedia.com> for ordering information.

Best Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Thu Oct 20 15:22:54 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:22:54 -0400
Subject: Group confusion
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968305@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

Did you really add a label to the group? Could you have just put the
label on top of the group, rather than inside of it?

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Peter T.
Evensen
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 3:08 PM
To: use-revolution-lists.runrev.com
Subject: Group confusion

Ok, I though I understood how groups worked.  If I have a group on
multiple 
cards and I edit the group (adding a label, in this example), shouldn't 
that label automatically appear on all the cards containing that group?

That isn't want happened.  I had to go and add the field to each card.
The 
slider I added to the group did, however, magically appear on all cards 
containing that group.  Why the difference?

Does it have something to do with the shared text property? I didn't
think 
to check that.  This seems inconsistent behavor.

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Thu Oct 20 15:32:55 2005
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:32:55 -0400
Subject: Group confusion
Message-ID: <OF2C894A60.F4139EDD-ON852570A0.006B13DC@sealedair.com>

Peter,

set the backgroundBehavior of group "X" to true
or
Click the checkbox "Behave like a background"  (This is an old HyperCard 
behavior that Rev extended to groups).

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>



From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Thu Oct 20 15:48:01 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:48:01 -0500
Subject: Group confusion
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968305@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov
 >
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968305@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051020144709.169a9bd8@exchange.slg.com>

At 02:22 PM 10/20/2005, you wrote:
>Did you really add a label to the group? Could you have just put the
>label on top of the group, rather than inside of it?

Yes, I did add it to the group in group edit mode.

I did not have behave as background checked, but the slider appeared on all 
cards without this checked.

I will do some experiments on a test stack.

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Oct 20 15:55:28 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:55:28 -0500
Subject: Group confusion
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968305@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968305@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <4357F630.5000006@chipp.com>

btw, you can easily add a label to a group by:

set the showName of grp "myGroup" to true
set the showBorder of grp "myGroup" to true.

-Chipp

Lynch, Jonathan wrote:
> Did you really add a label to the group? Could you have just put the
> label on top of the group, rather than inside of it?



From fgiannet at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 20 16:04:25 2005
From: fgiannet at hotmail.com (Fred Giannetto)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:04:25 -0400
Subject: Some Foolish questions
In-Reply-To: <BF620347.2CAF0%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <BAY106-F11E9253CBAA819EC694435D7730@phx.gbl>

Hello Sir,

You stated previously

>You should be able to use 'revDB_moveprev' in order to move back one record
>at a time. Rather than using a cursor (recordset), it may be more efficient
>(if there's not a ton of data) to retrieve all the data at once into a
>variable (or array) and then walk though that. If you need help in doing
>this, please let us know

Please advise me on how you would setup the array or variable and be able to 
walk through it (there is not a ton of data).

Thank you
All best Always
Fred




From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Thu Oct 20 16:11:05 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:11:05 -0500
Subject: Group confusion
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051020144709.169a9bd8@exchange.slg.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968305@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20051020144709.169a9bd8@exchange.slg.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051020151032.169ad340@exchange.slg.com>

Ok, mystery solved.  It was because I did not have the sharedText property 
checked.  The field was there, but was just blank.

At 02:48 PM 10/20/2005, you wrote:
>At 02:22 PM 10/20/2005, you wrote:
>>Did you really add a label to the group? Could you have just put the
>>label on top of the group, rather than inside of it?
>
>Yes, I did add it to the group in group edit mode.
>
>I did not have behave as background checked, but the slider appeared on 
>all cards without this checked.
>
>I will do some experiments on a test stack.
>
>Peter T. Evensen
>http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
>24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Thu Oct 20 16:11:53 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:11:53 -0500
Subject: Group confusion
In-Reply-To: <4357F630.5000006@chipp.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968305@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<4357F630.5000006@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051020151110.169ad860@exchange.slg.com>

I didn't mean that kind of label.  I meant static text/a locked field.  I 
said label because that is what the UI item is called on the tool bar.

At 02:55 PM 10/20/2005, you wrote:
>btw, you can easily add a label to a group by:
>
>set the showName of grp "myGroup" to true
>set the showBorder of grp "myGroup" to true.
>
>-Chipp
>
>Lynch, Jonathan wrote:
>>Did you really add a label to the group? Could you have just put the
>>label on top of the group, rather than inside of it?
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From irog at mac.com  Thu Oct 20 16:20:49 2005
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:20:49 -0700
Subject: Saving Itself
In-Reply-To: <20051020170003.EB3CA8250E7@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051020170003.EB3CA8250E7@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <2105DBCC-DC9A-4E2F-9C1D-BD7A9B148DE3@mac.com>

Thanks Todd.  I had forgotten about this, and it's just what I need  
at the moment.

Cheers, Roger


On Oct 20, 2005, at 10:00 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com  
wrote:

> MagicCarpet AAA stands for
>
>      "MagicCarpet  Auto-update Application Architecture"
>
> This is a way of building Rev applications that update over the web  
> and rely
> upon the MagicCarpet Version Control Software from Altuit
>
> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/MagicCarpetCover/default.htm
>
> One of the key features is that there is only one very simply stack  
> that is
> part of the standalone. The vast majority of the code for the app  
> exists in
> regular stacks that are not part of the standalone and there for  
> can be
> "saved to".
>
> I think another term for this type of architecture is the "Splash  
> Screen"
> App. Since it is often only the splash screen that is bound to the  
> runtime.
>
> HTH
>
> Todd
>



From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Thu Oct 20 17:01:58 2005
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:01:58 -0500
Subject: [ANN] tm|numeric Plugin
In-Reply-To: <BF7D3C48.23319%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF7D3C48.23319%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <7C976577-8EC1-4C89-AAEB-3F3B8378C691@daniels-mara.com>

Fellow kids...

Mr. Rossi, despite his twisted sense of humor (now that he's FORTY  
it's gotten much worse, btw), has created absolutely rock-solid,  
indispensable, cool tools in the way of tmAlign and tmNumeric.

I use tmAlign every day that I work in Rev. I've been using it and  
tmNumeric for over a year now. The UI of these tools speak to a part  
of your brain that is still hunting buffalo (that's a good thing,  
btw). You just USE them. No thinking involved.

Get it. Do it. Become one with it.

You'll be glad you  did.

-JD

P.S. Ok, so I'm feeling a little frisky this afternoon.

http://www.daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm
Scripts and properties in a tabbed editor!

On Oct 20, 2005, at 2:21 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, Jerry Daniels wrote:
>
>> After a couple hundred test cycles and hundreds of suggestions on
>> design and UI, I have decided that no two people want the same IDE.
>>
>
> And Mark Weider replied:
>
>> ...and in a funny sort of way, I kind of like it like that. I'm fully
>> into celebrating diversity, not just living with it.
>>
>
> And Richard Gaskin also chimed in:
>
>> Well said.  That's one of the beautiful things about Rev's plugin
>> architecture and that most of its scripts are exposed:  the
>> opportunities for extensibility are boundless.
>>
>
> Well, ok then, how about another slice of diversity?
>
> Today I'm announcing another small plugin for the IDE of your choice:
> tm|numeric.  This plugin acts as a numerical display and editor for  
> stack
> development, dynamically showing values for stacks and selected  
> object's
> width, height, layer, and x/y position, as well as the object's  
> name and
> number.  You can double click any displayed value (except number)  
> to edit
> the value and apply it to the selected object.  It's a really fast  
> way to
> edit your controls numerically.
>
> This plugin also introduces a new editing method we're trying out:
> scroll-editing. By clicking and holding on a displayed value, one can
> increase or decrease the value simply by moving the mouse up and down,
> without the need to type in a value.
>
> tm|numeric very simple and very small, which is in keeping with our
> philosophy about these types of tools: keep them small and out of  
> your way.
> Yes, size really does matter.
>
> tm|numeric was built to work with the Revolution and MetaCard IDEs, on
> Windows and MacOS, as well as with Constellation, the powerful  
> stack editor
> developed by Daniels & Mara, Inc.
> <http://www.daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm>
> We've tried to make this plugin as IDE-compatible as possible -- of  
> course,
> if you run across any issues, please let us know.
>
> tm|numeric is available for US$12 via PayPal (an account is not  
> required).
> Please visit the 'Media' section of our Web site
> <http://www.tactilemedia.com> for ordering information.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From cheryl7925 at optonline.net  Thu Oct 20 20:01:50 2005
From: cheryl7925 at optonline.net (Cheryl Becerra)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:01:50 -0700
Subject: how do i unsubscribe?
Message-ID: <b55b54cfa0189c4739cb842fba49106a@optonline.net>

I clicked the link that says to unsubscribe but there is no option for 
it. Can some one please help. I'm getting too much mail in my inbox.



From cheryl7925 at optonline.net  Thu Oct 20 20:04:51 2005
From: cheryl7925 at optonline.net (Cheryl Becerra)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:04:51 -0700
Subject: how do i unsubscribe?
In-Reply-To: <b55b54cfa0189c4739cb842fba49106a@optonline.net>
References: <b55b54cfa0189c4739cb842fba49106a@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <9a70b4868991cf136ac91c9bc0f30c4c@optonline.net>

i used that link. it shows nothing on unsubscribing. is there another 
link?


On Oct 20, 2005, at 5:01 PM, Cheryl Becerra wrote:

> I clicked the link that says to unsubscribe but there is no option for 
> it. Can some one please help. I'm getting too much mail in my inbox.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Oct 20 17:29:33 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:29:33 +0100
Subject: how do i unsubscribe?
In-Reply-To: <9a70b4868991cf136ac91c9bc0f30c4c@optonline.net>
References: <b55b54cfa0189c4739cb842fba49106a@optonline.net>
	<9a70b4868991cf136ac91c9bc0f30c4c@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <43580C3D.6090306@tweedly.net>

Cheryl Becerra wrote:

> i used that link. it shows nothing on unsubscribing. is there another 
> link?
>
>
It does actually have something on unsubscribing - it's just not very 
easy to see.

The heading on the last section implies that it is for administrators 
only (and indeed th first half of that section is for admins only). But 
the very last part of the form is for anyone to unsubscribe (or get 
password reminder).

It looks like (don't know if this cut/paste will work properly)

> /The subscribers list is only available to the list administrator./)
>
> Enter your admin address and password to visit the subscribers list:
>
> Admin address: Password:   
>
> To unsubscribe from use-revolution, get a password reminder, or change 
> your subscription options enter your subscription email address:
>
> If you leave the field blank, you will be prompted for your email address
>

and it's that very last bit you need.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net

-------------- next part --------------
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/143 - Release Date: 19/10/2005

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct 20 18:06:39 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:06:39 -0500
Subject: AW: AW: Lines, items, repeat loops, > not always what you think
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCEEBKDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <BF7D7F1F.2E469%kray@sonsothunder.com>

> function delimCount strr, del
>     put the itemDelimiter into saveDelim
>     set the itemDelimiter to del
>     get the number of items in strr
>     if the last char of strr is del then add 1 to it
>     set the itemDelimiter to saveDelim
>     return it
> end delimCount

This one is slightly faster, but is less lines:

function delimCount tStr,tDel
  replace tDel with CR in tStr
  return the number of lines of (tStr & null)
end delimCount

Also note that a modified form of this can be used to count any number of
characters in a string:

function charCount tStr,tChar
  if tChar <> CR then replace CR with "" in tStr
  replace tChar with CR in tStr
  return the number of lines of (tStr & null)
end charCount

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Thu Oct 20 18:10:19 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 00:10:19 +0200
Subject: AW: Revolution back to HyperCard
In-Reply-To: <p06200700bf7d99073405@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCEECFDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hi,

> I been wondrin, so I might as well ask.
> 
> I get the impression that few, if any XCMDs or XFCNs have been 
> written for Rev because its engine and native language are fast 
> enough to make them unnecessary.
> 
> Correct? Exceptions to the rule?

Well, not really. I'd like to but I can't get the darned thing to work (using XCode on Mac OS X).
I tried filtering log files, and there my old HyperCard XFCNs where about 800 time faster (about 50 min vs. 3.8 secs) for an 80 MB file. But I have also a 2 GB file, this would take ages using the built-in filtering. I asked the externals list, but I might repeat it here:
I am trying to build some external functions using XCode on Mac OS X. These will only very marginally interact with the stack itself (essentially asking the itemDelimiter or so).
I was wondering if somebody knew or could provide a very simple XCode project of an external function that I could use as a starting point (some kind of "Hello World!" would do). For now I ended up with a project that compiled a bundle, but when I set my externals to that bundle the function was not recognized (the externalFunctions is empty).
This is still the state of affairs. There are only some very complex projects available (involving scores of files, half of which I don't understand), so I would really appreciate something very simple that can be compiled with XCode.

All the best
Thomas

--
Thomas Fischer
Salzburg



From AbilityForms at aol.com  Thu Oct 20 18:11:16 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:11:16 EDT
Subject: Resizing Boxes
Message-ID: <213.bff0999.30897004@aol.com>

Hi everyone,

Is there a way to resize the menu builder window? I'm using Mac OSX. That 
window now takes up my entire screen. I figure my software or stacks are 
corrupted, but since they still work I'm trying to find a way to deal with it.

Joe,
Orlando, Florida


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct 20 18:16:41 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:16:41 -0500
Subject: AW: AW: Lines, items, repeat loops, > not always what you think
In-Reply-To: <BF7D7F1F.2E469%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <BF7D8179.2E49E%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/20/05 5:06 PM, "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

>> function delimCount strr, del
>>     put the itemDelimiter into saveDelim
>>     set the itemDelimiter to del
>>     get the number of items in strr
>>     if the last char of strr is del then add 1 to it
>>     set the itemDelimiter to saveDelim
>>     return it
>> end delimCount
> 
> This one is slightly faster, but is less lines:
> 
> function delimCount tStr,tDel
>   replace tDel with CR in tStr
>   return the number of lines of (tStr & null)
> end delimCount
> 
> Also note that a modified form of this can be used to count any number of
> characters in a string:
> 
> function charCount tStr,tChar
>   if tChar <> CR then replace CR with "" in tStr
>   replace tChar with CR in tStr
>   return the number of lines of (tStr & null)
> end charCount

Whoops! My bad... it should be this:

function delimCount tStr,tDel
  replace tDel with CR in tStr
  return (the number of lines of (tStr & null))-1
end delimCount

and

function charCount tStr,tChar
  if tChar <> CR then replace CR with "" in tStr
  replace tChar with CR in tStr
  return (the number of lines of (tStr&null))-1
end charCount

Sorry!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Oct 20 18:17:33 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:17:33 -0700
Subject: AW: Revolution back to HyperCard
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCEECFDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
References: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCEECFDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <B37A3A66-A69F-4107-BF16-5C096705E5CA@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 20, 2005, at 3:10 PM, Thomas Fischer wrote:

> I was wondering if somebody knew or could provide a very simple  
> XCode project of an external function that I could use as a  
> starting point (some kind of "Hello World!" would do). For now I  
> ended up with a project that compiled a bundle, but when I set my  
> externals to that bundle the function was not recognized (the  
> externalFunctions is empty).

I have some notes and a folder of the basic files required that I use  
for creating new externals in XCode.  I can send them to you off-list  
if you would like.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Thu Oct 20 18:51:30 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 00:51:30 +0200
Subject: AW: AW: AW: Lines, items, repeat loops, > not always what you think
In-Reply-To: <BF7D7F1F.2E469%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCGECGDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hi Ken,

> This one is slightly faster, but is less lines:
> 
> function delimCount tStr,tDel
>   replace tDel with CR in tStr
>   return the number of lines of (tStr & null)
> end delimCount

But it will not give the desired results if there are line breaks to begin with, you need the line
> if tChar <> CR then replace CR with "" in tStr
here as well.

As Jim pointed out, I don't need to bother with saving the itemDelimiter (old HyperCard habit),
and using your hint, it can be boiled down to

function delimCount strr, del
	set the itemDelimiter to del
	return the number of items in (strr & null)
end delimCount

> Also note that a modified form of this can be used to count any number of
> characters in a string:
> 
> function charCount tStr,tChar
>   if tChar <> CR then replace CR with "" in tStr
>   replace tChar with CR in tStr
>   return the number of lines of (tStr & null)
> end charCount

I tried the different options with the Change_Log_2.6.1.txt file, and there the double replacement is slower by a factor of 10.

All the best
Thomas


--
Thomas Fischer
Salzburg 



From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Oct 20 18:59:15 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 23:59:15 +0100
Subject: AW: Revolution back to HyperCard
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCEECFDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
References: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCEECFDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <43582143.2040108@tweedly.net>

Thomas Fischer wrote:

>
>Well, not really. I'd like to but I can't get the darned thing to work (using XCode on Mac OS X).
>I tried filtering log files, and there my old HyperCard XFCNs where about 800 time faster (about 50 min vs. 3.8 secs) for an 80 MB file. But I have also a 2 GB file, this would take ages using the built-in filtering. 
>
Sorry, I don't (yet) know anything about externals on Mac.

This may be just idle curiosity, but - are you saying that filtering an 
80Mb file takes 50 mins ?
How complex a filter are you using ? built-in filter command or 
something more complex ?

That seems awfully slow - the filter command on a 80Mb (600K line)  file 
takes only between 1.7 and 12.3 seconds on my slow-ish PC laptop (varies 
according to the filter search I use).


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/143 - Release Date: 19/10/2005



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 20 19:11:46 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:11:46 -0700
Subject: AW: AW: AW: Lines, items, repeat loops, > not always what you
 think
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCGECGDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <BF7D7242.2F591%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Hi, Thomas,
Looks like we can boil it down to either

repeat with x = 1 to the number of items in (strr & null)
--or
repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in (fld listOfMovieTitles & null)

and no function call necessary plus no change in the native data.
The sort will work since the empty will slide as though it exists, even if
it is at the end of the list and a resort moves it to the top.

I am adding (   & null) to my repeats from now on.
This has been a great thread for me and an excellent solution.
Thank you for digging into it like you did, Thomas.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas



On 10/20/05 3:51 PM, "Thomas Fischer" <fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
wrote:

> Hi Ken,
> 
>> This one is slightly faster, but is less lines:
>> 
>> function delimCount tStr,tDel
>>   replace tDel with CR in tStr
>>   return the number of lines of (tStr & null)
>> end delimCount
> 
> But it will not give the desired results if there are line breaks to begin
> with, you need the line
>> if tChar <> CR then replace CR with "" in tStr
> here as well.
> 
> As Jim pointed out, I don't need to bother with saving the itemDelimiter (old
> HyperCard habit),
> and using your hint, it can be boiled down to
> 
> function delimCount strr, del
> set the itemDelimiter to del
> return the number of items in (strr & null)
> end delimCount
> 
>> Also note that a modified form of this can be used to count any number of
>> characters in a string:
>> 
>> function charCount tStr,tChar
>>   if tChar <> CR then replace CR with "" in tStr
>>   replace tChar with CR in tStr
>>   return the number of lines of (tStr & null)
>> end charCount
> 
> I tried the different options with the Change_Log_2.6.1.txt file, and there
> the double replacement is slower by a factor of 10.
> 
> All the best
> Thomas
> 
> 
> --
> Thomas Fischer
> Salzburg 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From cbsiskin+ at pitt.edu  Thu Oct 20 19:20:40 2005
From: cbsiskin+ at pitt.edu (Claire Bradin Siskin)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:20:40 -0400
Subject: Pause in an audio recording?
Message-ID: <p06110400bf7dc5b30929@[136.142.55.61]>

Dear Folks,

With the help of gurus like Devin Asay and Trevor DeVore, I have been 
able to make some nifty Rev stacks that allow language learners to 
record audio files to submit to their instructors.

Now the instructors would like the students to be able to pause the 
recording while it is in progress and then continue. I can make a 
recording and then play, pause and resume it after the player is 
created, but I haven't been able to figure out how to pause the 
recording and resume recording the same file without losing the first 
part. Is there a way to pause a recording within Rev?

TIA,

Claire
-- 
Claire Bradin Siskin
Director
Robert Henderson Language Media Center
G 17 Cathedral of Learning
University of Pittsburgh
Pittsburgh, PA  15260
Office Phone: (412) 624-5939
Email: cbsiskin at pitt.edu
http://www.polyglot.pitt.edu


From jamon.ben at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 20:13:08 2005
From: jamon.ben at gmail.com (Ben Fisher)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:13:08 -0700
Subject: AW: Revolution back to HyperCard
Message-ID: <741fd030510201713j16a417aam89aaef0963e098f3@mail.gmail.com>

> I was wondering if somebody knew or could provide a very simple XCode
> project of an external function that I could use as a starting point (some
> kind of "Hello World!" would do). For now I ended up with a project that
> compiled a bundle, but when I set my externals to that bundle the function
> was not recognized (the externalFunctions is empty).
>
A Windows user, I too was in this situation a long time ago. I was fairly
adept at C but couldn't get the Externals SDK to compile, or to be
recognized by Revolution. Finally, with some help from others I was able to
start writing externals. (The so-called Externals SDK is an incomprehensible
jumble of information that probably just confuses people when none of the
sample code will compile.)
I think a true "how-to" kit for externals would be a real benefit to the
Revolution community. If I had more time, I would definitely volunteer to
write the Windows part of this kit. This kit would be targeted towards
people who do have at least some C/C++ experience. E-mail me at
jamon.ben at gmail.com if you would like to assist me.
 I hope everyone understands that externals are not a "magic bullet" that
takes your Transcript code and magically makes it run faster. Externals are
typically written in C or C++, and these languages have none of the
"user-friendliness" of Transcript. The syntax is nearly 100% different than
Transcript and the code must be compiled.

-Ben Fisher


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct 20 20:28:03 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:28:03 -0500
Subject: Resizing Boxes
In-Reply-To: <213.bff0999.30897004@aol.com>
References: <213.bff0999.30897004@aol.com>
Message-ID: <43583613.80706@hyperactivesw.com>

AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Is there a way to resize the menu builder window? I'm using Mac OSX. That 
> window now takes up my entire screen. I figure my software or stacks are 
> corrupted, but since they still work I'm trying to find a way to deal with it.

Did you change your monitor resolution? That could make all the stacks 
look larger. I've never heard of corruption that affects stack size. 
Corruption is very rare in Revolution, and on those unusual occasions 
when it happens, the stack won't open at all.

Can you set your monitor to use larger pixel dimensions? What happens 
then? Do the stacks stay put, or do they change?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct 20 20:36:37 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:36:37 -0500
Subject: "find" fiasco
In-Reply-To: <200510201541.XAA26485@msr41.hinet.net>
References: <200510201541.XAA26485@msr41.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <43583815.9030106@hyperactivesw.com>

Friedrich F. Grohmann wrote:
> I have a rather simple stack with text in fields on a number of cards 
> (Rev 2.6 under Mac OS 10.3.2). The text is in Chinese. 
> 
> In order to look for other instances of a term found on the present card 
> (in fld ID 1003) I'm using a "find selection" button the script of which 
> is as follows:
> 
> on mouseUp
>   put the selectedText of fld ID 1003 into SelCh
>   go to cd "Single Line" of stack "Message Box"
>   put "find" && quote&SelCh&quote into fld "Message Field"/
>      of cd "Single Line" of stack "Message Box"
>   select after text of fld "Message Field" of cd "Single Line" of stack 
> "Message Box"
> end mouseUp
> 
> I'm not sure whether there is anything wrong with this script but the 
> following things happen:
> 
> 1) With some words, the first instance (on the present) card is indicated 
> by the box and with each further hit of the return key one proceeds to 
> the next card where the term is found.
> 
> 2) In the case of other words, the instance on the present card is not 
> identified and only one other card is found, although the term actually 
> occurs on a number of cards.
> 
> 3) There are still other words in case of which the response is simply 
> "not found".
> 
> 4) I've run into so far one case where no instance is indicated and I am 
> told
> 
>           Script compile error:
>           Error: Script: missing "" after literal
> 
> 5) There was another word, where no box was drawn at all but all 
> instances were found. 
> 
> This scenario is very bewildering, to say the least. Is there any mistake 
> in the logic of the script or do I miss some other subtle detail? Any 
> help highly appreciated.
> 

It might be a unicode problem, but I'm not sure. What happens if, 
instead of using the message box, you use a script to find words? Make a 
button with a script like this:

on mouseUp
  global gFindText
  if gFindText = ""
  then put the selectedText of fld ID 1003 into gFindText
  find gFindText
end mouseUp

You should turn off autohiliting for the button so that the selectedtext 
remains selected when you click.

When you repeatedly click the button, do you get the same results?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jamon.ben at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 20:43:40 2005
From: jamon.ben at gmail.com (Ben Fisher)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:43:40 -0700
Subject: Constellation
Message-ID: <741fd030510201743v27fd40eeia15d42d1a7ffea96@mail.gmail.com>

Well, I guess Constellation beat me to it... I had also been working on a
similar script editing interface. It looks pretty nice though.
 Just a few comments...
 It seems like a lot of the plug-ins and tools for Revolution lately are
being sold. There is nothing wrong with this, in fact most of the time these
products look nicer and are easier to use.
 However, I am always more attracted to free open-source projects, not just
because of the price, but also because of the spirit. Developers helping
each other, one of the reasons I subscribe to this list. If I download
open-source code, I can contribute to the project. All fellow developers can
profit from my contributions, and not just the few who can afford to buy.
Perhaps Revolution is partly at fault: that stacks (not being text files)
are not as easy to be developed by a team. Or maybe I just belong to a
different generation of coders?
 After thriving off of free software for so long, it felt kind of awkward
for me to spend the money to even upgrade my version of Revolution. Paying
money just to get the language? I'm sure many other potential Rev developers
are discouraged by the same type of feelings.
 I propose that a central website be created, full of code from the Rev
universe. More structured than a wiki, files would be uploaded into
categories and directories, but the whole database could be quickly
searched. Most importantly, there would be a section composed of tools and
utilities all completely free and open source. I know websites like this
already exist, but it would be so much cooler if there were one
authoritative Rev Source.
 -Ben Fisher


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct 20 20:51:19 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:51:19 -0700
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <741fd030510201743v27fd40eeia15d42d1a7ffea96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <741fd030510201743v27fd40eeia15d42d1a7ffea96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43583B87.4070508@fourthworld.com>

Ben Fisher wrote
>  I propose that a central website be created, full of code from the Rev
> universe. More structured than a wiki, files would be uploaded into
> categories and directories, but the whole database could be quickly
> searched. Most importantly, there would be a section composed of tools and
> utilities all completely free and open source.

I can create a section at revJournal for that.
Would you like to be the editor of that section?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Oct 20 20:59:45 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 01:59:45 +0100
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <43583B87.4070508@fourthworld.com>
References: <741fd030510201743v27fd40eeia15d42d1a7ffea96@mail.gmail.com>
	<43583B87.4070508@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <43583D81.609@tweedly.net>

Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Ben Fisher wrote
>
>>  I propose that a central website be created, full of code from the Rev
>> universe. More structured than a wiki, files would be uploaded into
>> categories and directories, but the whole database could be quickly
>> searched. Most importantly, there would be a section composed of 
>> tools and
>> utilities all completely free and open source.
>
>
> I can create a section at revJournal for that.
> Would you like to be the editor of that section?
>
I'd suggest making it more like an index than a complete repository. 
Many people currently have Rev stacks available on their own web-sites, 
and will wish to continue to do so. Duplicating those stacks in some 
central repository places a burden on someone to keep it up to date. And 
it's easy to run a link-checker on an "index", but not easy to run an 
"is it up to date check" on stacks.

So by all means allow stacks to be put into the repository - but also 
allow for the (I suspect more common) case where the stack is already 
available on-line, and only a pointer to it is needed in the central place.


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/143 - Release Date: 19/10/2005



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct 20 21:07:11 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:07:11 -0700
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <43583D81.609@tweedly.net>
References: <741fd030510201743v27fd40eeia15d42d1a7ffea96@mail.gmail.com>	<43583B87.4070508@fourthworld.com>
	<43583D81.609@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <43583F3F.2050507@fourthworld.com>

Alex Tweedly wrote:
> Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Ben Fisher wrote
>>
>>>  I propose that a central website be created, full of code from the Rev
>>> universe. More structured than a wiki, files would be uploaded into
>>> categories and directories, but the whole database could be quickly
>>> searched. Most importantly, there would be a section composed of 
>>> tools and
>>> utilities all completely free and open source.
>>
>>
>>
>> I can create a section at revJournal for that.
>> Would you like to be the editor of that section?
>>
> I'd suggest making it more like an index than a complete repository. 
> Many people currently have Rev stacks available on their own web-sites, 
> and will wish to continue to do so. Duplicating those stacks in some 
> central repository places a burden on someone to keep it up to date. And 
> it's easy to run a link-checker on an "index", but not easy to run an 
> "is it up to date check" on stacks.
> 
> So by all means allow stacks to be put into the repository - but also 
> allow for the (I suspect more common) case where the stack is already 
> available on-line, and only a pointer to it is needed in the central place.

I think that's an excellent idea.   Very much like RevNet.

We can publish the index in a simple delimited format for use by RevNet, 
Eric Chatonet's tools, and any other viewer anyone cares to make for the 
repository.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Oct 20 20:18:58 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:18:58 -0700
Subject: Function to break apart a Long Name?
In-Reply-To: <1fc.c8888c6.3087108e@aol.com>
References: <1fc.c8888c6.3087108e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <p06210261bf7ddf0e1c41@[66.93.39.98]>

At 10:59 PM -0400 10/18/2005, Cubist at aol.com wrote:
>sez revolution at jaedworks.com:
>>At 4:00 PM +0100 10/17/2005, David Burgun wrote:
>>>Does anyone know of a function that will extract name of the
>>>Control, Group, Card and Stack from a long name string?
>>>e.g. I have a string of the form:
>  >>control "A" of group "B" of card "C" of stack "D"
>  >I'd use the short name in conjunction with the owner for this:
>>
>>    -- "myControl" is control "A" of group "B" of card "C" of stack "D"
>>    put the short name of myControl into myControlName
>>    put the short name of the owner of myControl into myGroupName
>>    put the short name of the owner of the owner of myControl into myCardName
>>    put the short name of the owner of the owner of the owner of
>>myControl into myStackName
>    Problem: If you use this on something that *isn't* in a group, myGroupName
>will end up being the name of a card; myCardName will be the stack name; and
>I'm not sure *what* myStackName will end up as.

The problem as stated had a string in a particular form, which 
included a group. To generalize this solution obviously would take 
more code than this. (You'd need to check word 1 of the long name of 
"myControl", of "the owner of myControl", etc. If you want to be 
thorough, you also need to check the hcAddressing property.)

I suppose I just wanted to answer the question, rather than write out 
a general solution which would be both more complicated and not 
needed in this case.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Oct 20 20:18:02 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:18:02 -0700
Subject: Resizing Boxes
In-Reply-To: <213.bff0999.30897004@aol.com>
References: <213.bff0999.30897004@aol.com>
Message-ID: <p06210264bf7de3782518@[66.93.39.98]>

At 6:11 PM -0400 10/20/2005, AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
>Is there a way to resize the menu builder window? I'm using Mac OSX. That
>window now takes up my entire screen. I figure my software or stacks are
>corrupted, but since they still work I'm trying to find a way to deal with it.

Try typing this in the message box:

   set the rect of stack "revMenuManager" to "100,100,580,540"
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Oct 20 22:10:05 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:10:05 -0400
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <741fd030510201743v27fd40eeia15d42d1a7ffea96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <741fd030510201743v27fd40eeia15d42d1a7ffea96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ECB7D359-40BB-45F8-8488-2A1B412390BB@adelphia.net>

Ben,

I agree with what you are saying and the one nice thing about this  
list and REV compared to let's say Director is that there are so many  
people willing to help out with code snippets and ideas and stacks to  
disect etc.

Tom

On Oct 20, 2005, at 8:43 PM, Ben Fisher wrote:

> Well, I guess Constellation beat me to it... I had also been  
> working on a
> similar script editing interface. It looks pretty nice though.
>  Just a few comments...
>  It seems like a lot of the plug-ins and tools for Revolution  
> lately are
> being sold. There is nothing wrong with this, in fact most of the  
> time these
> products look nicer and are easier to use.
>  However, I am always more attracted to free open-source projects,  
> not just
> because of the price, but also because of the spirit. Developers  
> helping
> each other, one of the reasons I subscribe to this list. If I download
> open-source code, I can contribute to the project. All fellow  
> developers can
> profit from my contributions, and not just the few who can afford  
> to buy.
> Perhaps Revolution is partly at fault: that stacks (not being text  
> files)
> are not as easy to be developed by a team. Or maybe I just belong to a
> different generation of coders?
>  After thriving off of free software for so long, it felt kind of  
> awkward
> for me to spend the money to even upgrade my version of Revolution.  
> Paying
> money just to get the language? I'm sure many other potential Rev  
> developers
> are discouraged by the same type of feelings.
>  I propose that a central website be created, full of code from the  
> Rev
> universe. More structured than a wiki, files would be uploaded into
> categories and directories, but the whole database could be quickly
> searched. Most importantly, there would be a section composed of  
> tools and
> utilities all completely free and open source. I know websites like  
> this
> already exist, but it would be so much cooler if there were one
> authoritative Rev Source.
>  -Ben Fisher
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From see3d at writeme.com  Thu Oct 20 22:30:19 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:30:19 -0400
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <741fd030510201743v27fd40eeia15d42d1a7ffea96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <741fd030510201743v27fd40eeia15d42d1a7ffea96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <64CE547E-07C2-4F03-8768-A5442517E174@writeme.com>

Ben,

This is a good idea, and I am glad you have the time and energy to  
help make it happen.  One of the things I like about the Rev  
community is that the spirit of sharing is alive.

However, I don't begrudge any developer, who has taken on the task of  
producing a significant tool for development, a modest fee for  
sharing it.  It takes a lot of work (and time away from paying  
customers) to turn a personal tool into a product --and to support  
it.  If every developer made a modest tool and shared it for a modest  
fee, then it would be a break even proposition --the fees received  
from other developers = the fees payed for other developers tools.

  I believe that the tools offered for sale in this community do not  
actually pay back for the time and effort in their development.  The  
fee charged just insures that those who buy it, need it, and it pays  
for their support.  I believe it is mostly a labor of love and  
sharing, but a developer needs an incentive to rationalize the time  
spent on a "product" with no initial paying customer.  There is also  
a promotion of reputation in the process that is good for getting  
future contract work.

Sharing openly a tool in a less than productized state, might work  
out to be the same cost --the debug and maintenance effort is  
somewhat shared.  I see a lot of this sharing here and it also helps  
others progress in the process.

However, a significant product effort like Rev or even Constellation  
requires a significant level of design, commitment, and support to  
make it into a reality.  People are working full time on upgrading,  
debugging, and supporting these.  Someone has to pay the bills.  If  
the tool results in labor saved in development, it pays for itself  
many times over.

I am happy to support those efforts, so my tools will continue to  
improve and be maintained.  If I pay RunRev for a better product, I  
am justified in yelling at them if they slack off on delivering.  If  
it were open source, I would have to beg for someone to donate the  
time to fix or improve anything.  Besides the community is not big  
enough to support an open project of this magnitude.

People who don't earn any revenue from their programming (like me)  
would of course like to take advantage of the lowest cost tools.  I  
have to weigh the cost of my time (free, but not really) with the  
cost of a tool.  I believe RunRev has addressed this appropriately  
with DreamCard (Revolution for the rest of us), and the various  
levels of Revolution.  I know that if I can't really solve my problem  
without a tool, I can find something at a reasonable price here.

The Rev community supports all these various models for tool  
development and I believe it is the richer for it.  I am most  
encouraged by the fact that the same developer is often involved in  
more than one kind of sharing their talents --pay product, free  
product, open source, free advice.

The developers on this list all ROCK!

Dennis

On Oct 20, 2005, at 8:43 PM, Ben Fisher wrote:

> Well, I guess Constellation beat me to it... I had also been  
> working on a
> similar script editing interface. It looks pretty nice though.
>  Just a few comments...
>  It seems like a lot of the plug-ins and tools for Revolution  
> lately are
> being sold. There is nothing wrong with this, in fact most of the  
> time these
> products look nicer and are easier to use.
>  However, I am always more attracted to free open-source projects,  
> not just
> because of the price, but also because of the spirit. Developers  
> helping
> each other, one of the reasons I subscribe to this list. If I download
> open-source code, I can contribute to the project. All fellow  
> developers can
> profit from my contributions, and not just the few who can afford  
> to buy.
> Perhaps Revolution is partly at fault: that stacks (not being text  
> files)
> are not as easy to be developed by a team. Or maybe I just belong to a
> different generation of coders?
>  After thriving off of free software for so long, it felt kind of  
> awkward
> for me to spend the money to even upgrade my version of Revolution.  
> Paying
> money just to get the language? I'm sure many other potential Rev  
> developers
> are discouraged by the same type of feelings.
>  I propose that a central website be created, full of code from the  
> Rev
> universe. More structured than a wiki, files would be uploaded into
> categories and directories, but the whole database could be quickly
> searched. Most importantly, there would be a section composed of  
> tools and
> utilities all completely free and open source. I know websites like  
> this
> already exist, but it would be so much cooler if there were one
> authoritative Rev Source.
>  -Ben Fisher
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From tominjapan at excite.com  Fri Oct 21 00:27:18 2005
From: tominjapan at excite.com (Thomas McCarthy)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 00:27:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Paypal not responding to rev cgi post
Message-ID: <20051021042718.79009BBB6@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com>


I'm trying to implement a PayPal solution to registering my software. Here's the flow:

1. students/users start up my app and click 'register'
2. A "register_window" rev stack is downloaded and the user chooses some basic options.
3. They click send and my stack generates a key (thanks to Ken Ray for the MACaddress code!) this key and a large random number are sent to a cgi which stores them in my key_database.rev on the server.
4. the button checks for success of this and then takes a preformatted PayPal button and replaces certain items (important: the 'custom' item is pass-through, so I put the large random number there as reference to the generated key) revGoURL opens the browswer with the button info.
5. User (hopefully) completes paying and PayPal contacts my "IPN.cgi" (instant payment notification"). My cgi reads the info, attaches a "cmd=verify" (or something like that) and posts it back for verification.
TROUBLE: nothing comes back
6. Paypal also contacts my "PDT.cgi" which will generate the "Thank you" page. Again, initial info is recieved all right, but posting back for verification fails.

Right now, testing with the PayPal sandbox system, I have to say it's good enough without verification, and my app isn't something folks are likely to spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to steal. Also the initial info I read from the PayPal server is probably enough for me to verify on my own--and decide if I should withold the key or display it/email it out. Still, loose ends make me nervous. Anyone have experience with PayPal?

multas gratias agam,
tm

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Oct 21 00:40:44 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 06:40:44 +0200
Subject: strange issue
Message-ID: <20051021040851.A222F824D46@mail.runrev.com>

I have this custom prop

put the xos["dragstack"] of this stack 

It tell TAOO whether a stack can be dragged on a mousedown event...

very handy...

but if I start checking this on one stack EditNO2 in the message box
if get all the error messages in the answer!

put the xos["dragstack"] of stack "editno2"

Handler: Running low on memory, script aborted
recursionLimit: Recursion limit reached
abs: error in source expression
accept: bad expression
etc...

if I put the script in a button it works - although the 
mousedown handler doesn?t!!!

If I debug the mousedown handler rev freezes...
If I debug the handler and do the put xos["dragstack"] 
show into the message, the xos["dragstack"] is empty!!!

im pretty sure that im selecting the right stack's cusom props.
Im sure the prop is there and it contains "true"...

can anyone explain this? 
This works fine in rr 2.5 but no more in 2.6.1...

cheers
Xavier



From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Oct 21 00:43:29 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 02:43:29 -0200
Subject: Paypal not responding to rev cgi post
In-Reply-To: <20051021042718.79009BBB6@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20051021042718.79009BBB6@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <8E8F396E-F804-453B-AB3C-F8F689938A5E@mac.com>

Thomas,

You're warned not to sell things using PayPal from your software so  
that the user clearly sees what the browser is doing... Best is to  
redirect to the browser page, the IPN spec works best using HTTPS,  
it's the only way, also IPN is not realtime, it will broadcast  
messages to your IPN CGI for 24hours I think...

cheers
andre


On Oct 21, 2005, at 2:27 AM, Thomas McCarthy wrote:

>
> I'm trying to implement a PayPal solution to registering my  
> software. Here's the flow:
>
> 1. students/users start up my app and click 'register'
> 2. A "register_window" rev stack is downloaded and the user chooses  
> some basic options.
> 3. They click send and my stack generates a key (thanks to Ken Ray  
> for the MACaddress code!) this key and a large random number are  
> sent to a cgi which stores them in my key_database.rev on the server.
> 4. the button checks for success of this and then takes a  
> preformatted PayPal button and replaces certain items (important:  
> the 'custom' item is pass-through, so I put the large random number  
> there as reference to the generated key) revGoURL opens the  
> browswer with the button info.
> 5. User (hopefully) completes paying and PayPal contacts my  
> "IPN.cgi" (instant payment notification"). My cgi reads the info,  
> attaches a "cmd=verify" (or something like that) and posts it back  
> for verification.
> TROUBLE: nothing comes back
> 6. Paypal also contacts my "PDT.cgi" which will generate the "Thank  
> you" page. Again, initial info is recieved all right, but posting  
> back for verification fails.
>
> Right now, testing with the PayPal sandbox system, I have to say  
> it's good enough without verification, and my app isn't something  
> folks are likely to spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to  
> steal. Also the initial info I read from the PayPal server is  
> probably enough for me to verify on my own--and decide if I should  
> withold the key or display it/email it out. Still, loose ends make  
> me nervous. Anyone have experience with PayPal?
>
> multas gratias agam,
> tm
>
> _______________________________________________
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Oct 21 01:18:24 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:18:24 -0700
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <741fd030510201743v27fd40eeia15d42d1a7ffea96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <741fd030510201743v27fd40eeia15d42d1a7ffea96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2C99B68A-EF1C-4E94-BD3D-C5842A444091@danshafer.com>


On Oct 20, 2005, at 5:43 PM, Ben Fisher wrote:

>  It seems like a lot of the plug-ins and tools for Revolution  
> lately are
> being sold. There is nothing wrong with this, in fact most of the  
> time these
> products look nicer and are easier to use.
>  However, I am always more attracted to free open-source projects,  
> not just
> because of the price, but also because of the spirit.

While I certainly agree with your notion of "spirit" here, Ben, I  
have to say that I am more than happy to pay folks like Jerry Daniels  
and Ken Ray and Chipp Walters and Jan Schenkel (and others too  
numerous to mention) for the hard work they put in designing and  
productizing a tool I can use to make money. There are, of course,  
many others who contribute free and/or open source tools to the  
community and I appreciate them as well. But I'm glad that when I run  
into a problem or question with Constellation, I don't have to spend  
10 or 20 or 30 hours rummaging through source code to find and fix  
the problem.

Open source isn't what it's cracked up to be in my experience. "You  
can fix it" presumes you have the time, expertise, energy, and need  
for it to be fixed. And if you don't, then you're at the mercy of a  
frequently distracted and fragmented community of developers, none of  
whom may see the need for the feature without which you cannot work.

Again, I think the mix of both commercial and open source is  
ultimately a good place to be. There are open source and free dev  
tools out there for Rev. I've chosen Constellation for a lot of reasons.

>
>  After thriving off of free software for so long, it felt kind of  
> awkward
> for me to spend the money to even upgrade my version of Revolution.  
> Paying
> money just to get the language?

Well, first of all  you're not paying just to get the language, but  
also the IDE. You can get Python free but there isn't a decent  
graphical IDE for it. I know. I was part of the PythonCard team for a  
long time and that project ended up not being released because there  
just wasn't enough support or demand. Other open source languages  
often suffer from the same inadequacy.

Second, not all of the free, open source languages out there are free  
when you're done buying books to tell you how to use them, libraries  
to do the things the language isn't designed to do, support for when  
the tool breaks and you're on deadline...  Been there, done that. I'm  
a big fan of a number of open source languages conceptually (Python,  
JavaScript, Smalltalk and others) but to get real work done, I always  
go back to Rev.

Must be a reason for that.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Oct 21 01:20:35 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:20:35 -0700
Subject: Paypal not responding to rev cgi post
In-Reply-To: <20051021042718.79009BBB6@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <BF7DC8B3.233CB%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Thomas McCarthy  wrote:

> I'm trying to implement a PayPal solution to registering my software.
> ...
> Right now, testing with the PayPal sandbox system, I have to say it's good
> enough without verification, and my app isn't something folks are likely to
> spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to steal. Also the initial info I
> read from the PayPal server is probably enough for me to verify on my own--and
> decide if I should withold the key or display it/email it out. Still, loose
> ends make me nervous. Anyone have experience with PayPal?

At first glance, perhaps this might work:

Since your students are first going through your system and storing a unique
key, your CGI could also generate an HTML download page with that key (or
some other unique identifier) as part of the Web address (ie
http://www.mydomain.com/download/user72635463.html).  And since PayPal
allows you to specify a "thank you" page URL among the cart parameters it
receives, you could include the URL of the download page as the thank you
page.  So when a transaction is completed, the user will be automatically
routed to the download page created by your CGI.

Maybe I'm missing something but this seems like an option.

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Fri Oct 21 02:33:35 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:33:35 +0200
Subject: strange issue
In-Reply-To: <20051021040851.A222F824D46@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <OFF267C262.754219B3-ONC12570A1.00202DBC-C12570A1.002405FA@deutsche-boerse.com>

After some testing, it seems this engine specific and not a revGUI  issue.
I thought it could have been the revmessage box but it also happens in 
MetaCard's msg box.

So MC engine version 2.6.6 has a problem! Any confirmations to enter a 
concrete bugzilla 
is welcome...

Second bugzilla today!!!



use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 21/10/2005 06:40:44:

> I have this custom prop
> 
> put the xos["dragstack"] of this stack 
> 
> It tell TAOO whether a stack can be dragged on a mousedown event...
> 
> very handy...
> 
> but if I start checking this on one stack EditNO2 in the message box
> if get all the error messages in the answer!
> 
> put the xos["dragstack"] of stack "editno2"
> 
> Handler: Running low on memory, script aborted
> recursionLimit: Recursion limit reached
> abs: error in source expression
> accept: bad expression
> etc...
> 
> if I put the script in a button it works - although the 
> mousedown handler doesn?t!!!
> 
> If I debug the mousedown handler rev freezes...
> If I debug the handler and do the put xos["dragstack"] 
> show into the message, the xos["dragstack"] is empty!!!
> 
> im pretty sure that im selecting the right stack's cusom props.
> Im sure the prop is there and it contains "true"...
> 
> can anyone explain this? 
> This works fine in rr 2.5 but no more in 2.6.1...
> 
> cheers
> Xavier
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
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Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
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The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
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its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Fri Oct 21 03:10:29 2005
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (ron barber)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:10:29 +0900
Subject: Language Input settings
In-Reply-To: <43561DD2.1060004@roman.uib.no>
References: <7C9C8FF4-D8F0-4BD4-87E2-CEA821F1E30A@hindu.org>
	<43561DD2.1060004@roman.uib.no>
Message-ID: <f3918768fe82035f1c0498715032f216@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Hi,

Simple question:
Is there a way on windows and mac to get/set the text input language?

Thanks,
Ron



From rishi at puredata.com.au  Fri Oct 21 03:24:20 2005
From: rishi at puredata.com.au (Rishi Viner)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:24:20 +1000
Subject: OT: Looking for a cheap web hosting ISP
In-Reply-To: <7EBF68CE-256D-416B-9E4E-D95B5A56C025@mac.com>
References: <4356DD91.2090106@tweedly.net> <43572FDA.5030003@fourthworld.com>
	<7EBF68CE-256D-416B-9E4E-D95B5A56C025@mac.com>
Message-ID: <200510211724.20287.rishi@puredata.com.au>

Just chipping in late with a possible work around for this libc version issue.

> -jailshell-2.05b$ ldd mc
>          linux-gate.so.1 =>  (0xffffe000)
>          libdl.so.2 => /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x00341000)
>          libX11.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 (0x4cba8000)
>          libXext.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6 (0x4cc72000)
>          libm.so.6 => /lib/tls/libm.so.6 (0x00347000)
>          libc.so.6 => /lib/tls/libc.so.6 (0x00223000)
>          /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x0020a000)
>
>
> There you see libc.so.6... the problem in Dans webhost is a wrong
> version of libC, if he uses ldd then search for the file, he'll not
> find it... the server is using an older version of libC, he is
> probably using GLIB2.2 and needs 2.3...

I work with a lot of linux machines here and have encountered this sort of 
thing fairly often. Sometimes a linux distribution will package a "compat" or 
compatibility version of a library when they ship their distro with a new 
version of the library. The idea being that your older software will work 
more easily on the new upgraded distro. So you may be able to install a 
"compat" package to get it working. This is the best solution.

Assuming you can't do this on someone else's web server there is another 
possibility... This assumes you get a message like "libc.so.5 is missing and 
I need this library to run".  Looking at these "compat" packages (often 
installed as say 'libc-6.0-compat') I find that sometimes they just provide a 
symbolic link from the old shared object ('so') library to the new one. For 
example they will provide a link in the library directory from libc.so.5 -> 
libc.so.6. This assumes that the new version of the library is backward 
compatible... Dangerous assumption, but they often are. I have generally had 
good success making these links when needed and the advantage is that you 
might be able to create these symbolic links on the web server even if you 
can't install software/libraries. If this is a possibility for you, you would 
do something like this at the linux command line:

#ln -s /lib/tls/libc.so.5 /lib/tls/libc.so.6
which creates the link from the .5 to the .6.

Now if we do:
# ls -la /lib/tls/
you would see something with:
/lib/tls/libc.so.5  ->  /lib/tls/libc.so.6
Now if your program accesses libc.so.5 it gets redirected to libc.so.6 without 
knowing it. 

I know this will only help in some specific circumstances, but hope it is 
useful anyway. 

Cheers,

-- 
Rishi Viner
--------------
PUREDATA
Australia

www.puredata.com.au


From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Fri Oct 21 03:28:13 2005
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (ron barber)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:28:13 +0900
Subject: Determining the language of the text
In-Reply-To: <43561DD2.1060004@roman.uib.no>
References: <7C9C8FF4-D8F0-4BD4-87E2-CEA821F1E30A@hindu.org>
	<43561DD2.1060004@roman.uib.no>
Message-ID: <28b6793bc69b640debd7647182d1f87a@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Hi again,

This is an attempt to get at my problem a different way. Is there a way 
to tell what language a given chunk of text is?

If I ask for user input, it may be in english or japanese or korean for 
example. If I need to unidecode the text, I need to know if it is 
japanese or korean. If it is english, I may not even need to unidecode 
for my purposes.

So, is there a way to tell what language a given chunk is in?

Thanks,
Ron



From rishi at puredata.com.au  Fri Oct 21 03:33:34 2005
From: rishi at puredata.com.au (Rishi Viner)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:33:34 +1000
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <64CE547E-07C2-4F03-8768-A5442517E174@writeme.com>
References: <741fd030510201743v27fd40eeia15d42d1a7ffea96@mail.gmail.com>
	<64CE547E-07C2-4F03-8768-A5442517E174@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <200510211733.34413.rishi@puredata.com.au>

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:30 pm, Dennis Brown wrote:
> If I pay RunRev for a better product, I
> am justified in yelling at them if they slack off on delivering.  If
> it were open source, I would have to beg for someone to donate the
> time to fix or improve anything.  

Not entirely true... You could always offer to pay the developer some money to 
fix your gripe. ;-) This is actually quite common.

Most open source development projects have a paypal link on their sites too, 
so you can make donations just to keep them interested!

-- 
Rishi Viner
--------------
PUREDATA
Australia

www.puredata.com.au


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Fri Oct 21 03:33:40 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:33:40 +0200
Subject: Determining the language of the text
In-Reply-To: <28b6793bc69b640debd7647182d1f87a@yhb.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <OF0BA39147.9F3F70B5-ONC12570A1.00293655-C12570A1.0029863E@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Ron

Im working on a detector for non-unicode languages. Is there a way to tell 
if text is in unicode or not?

Detecting languages can be done via a dictionary exlusion - if the word is 
not in the dictionary, try
next dictionary... 

SpellNO2 spell checking plugin has this feature planned... but im not 
working hard on it as demand was dismall...

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 21/10/2005 09:28:13:

> Hi again,
> 
> This is an attempt to get at my problem a different way. Is there a way 
> to tell what language a given chunk of text is?
> 
> If I ask for user input, it may be in english or japanese or korean for 
> example. If I need to unidecode the text, I need to know if it is 
> japanese or korean. If it is english, I may not even need to unidecode 
> for my purposes.
> 
> So, is there a way to tell what language a given chunk is in?
> 
> Thanks,
> Ron
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
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Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
                                                          
IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
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The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
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not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
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From see3d at writeme.com  Fri Oct 21 08:40:49 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:40:49 -0400
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <200510211733.34413.rishi@puredata.com.au>
References: <741fd030510201743v27fd40eeia15d42d1a7ffea96@mail.gmail.com>
	<64CE547E-07C2-4F03-8768-A5442517E174@writeme.com>
	<200510211733.34413.rishi@puredata.com.au>
Message-ID: <0059B62E-81F5-4DD4-BBCA-40F37FEAB251@writeme.com>

Well, then I am back to paying for a product.  The circle closes back  
on itself ;-)

On Oct 21, 2005, at 3:33 AM, Rishi Viner wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:30 pm, Dennis Brown wrote:
>
>> If I pay RunRev for a better product, I
>> am justified in yelling at them if they slack off on delivering.  If
>> it were open source, I would have to beg for someone to donate the
>> time to fix or improve anything.
>>
>
> Not entirely true... You could always offer to pay the developer  
> some money to
> fix your gripe. ;-) This is actually quite common.
>
> Most open source development projects have a paypal link on their  
> sites too,
> so you can make donations just to keep them interested!
>
> -- 
> Rishi Viner
> --------------
> PUREDATA
> Australia
>
> www.puredata.com.au
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From AbilityForms at aol.com  Fri Oct 21 08:44:42 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:44:42 EDT
Subject: Resizing Boxes
Message-ID: <210.c0b250a.308a3cba@aol.com>


In a message dated 10/20/05 8:28:26 PM, jacque at hyperactivesw.com writes:


> AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > Is there a way to resize the menu builder window? I'm using Mac OSX. That
> > window now takes up my entire screen. I figure my software or stacks are
> > corrupted, but since they still work I'm trying to find a way to deal with 
> it.
> 
> Did you change your monitor resolution? That could make all the stacks
> look larger. I've never heard of corruption that affects stack size.
> Corruption is very rare in Revolution, and on those unusual occasions
> when it happens, the stack won't open at all.
> 
> Can you set your monitor to use larger pixel dimensions? What happens
> then? Do the stacks stay put, or do they change?
> 
> Hi Again,

No, I didn't change my screen resolution. My stacks themselves are normal 
size and operate fine. There are several problems though. The type in the menu 
builder window is normal size it's mostly a blank window that fills the screen 
though. The other development windows are also full screen. The reason I asked 
about the Menu Builder window specifically is that it doesn't have a resizing 
tab as the others do. There are other problems too, for example, when I drag a 
button off the tool palate it comes with an orange rectangle that's about 
half the screen size. When I drop the button it's fine though. I can move it a 
second time without that happening. I think my problems began when I was in a 
field inspector screen. Instead of putting in the left position as a three digit 
number as I wanted to I stupidly typed in a six digit number. After doing 
that revolution crashed and it hasn't been the same since.

Joe,
Orlando, Florida


From AbilityForms at aol.com  Fri Oct 21 08:49:18 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:49:18 EDT
Subject: Resizing Boxes
Message-ID: <1e.502450c4.308a3dce@aol.com>


In a message dated 10/20/05 9:42:03 PM, revolution at jaedworks.com writes:


> At 6:11 PM -0400 10/20/2005, AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
> >Is there a way to resize the menu builder window? I'm using Mac OSX. That
> >window now takes up my entire screen. I figure my software or stacks are
> >corrupted, but since they still work I'm trying to find a way to deal with 
> it.
> 
> Try typing this in the message box:
> 
> ?? set the rect of stack "revMenuManager" to "100,100,580,540"
> 

I did that and it works! The that is only a temporary fix though. I saved the 
stack after doing that and then closed and reopened it and the Menu Manager 
was full screen again. :(

Joe


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Oct 21 10:24:14 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:24:14 -0400
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <64CE547E-07C2-4F03-8768-A5442517E174@writeme.com>
References: <741fd030510201743v27fd40eeia15d42d1a7ffea96@mail.gmail.com>
	<64CE547E-07C2-4F03-8768-A5442517E174@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <CCB19418-A53F-4608-86FD-3D89D602BB6A@adelphia.net>

Dennis,

This sounds reasonable. I guess my 'fear' is that once 'everyone'  
says "Hey, I can sell this using this list as my source of customers"  
then this list and the attitude turns and starts to feel just like  
Director and it's lists. That is why I stopped developing in Director  
in the first place, not enough community support and 'greedy  
appearing' developers that won't share their time with newbies or  
with someone that is just struggling with a piece of code. (Not all  
Director developers are like this, but enough to make me switch to  
REV. Also, It is not guaranteed that this would happen here but it  
might.)

P.S. I bought Constellation and the whole set of Gadgets. I only  
really wanted one part of it and was curious about productivity  
increase with the rest. (The video's actually sold me with the  
support from users on the list.)

Tom

On Oct 20, 2005, at 10:30 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:

> However, I don't begrudge any developer, who has taken on the task  
> of producing a significant tool for development, a modest fee for  
> sharing it.  It takes a lot of work (and time away from paying  
> customers) to turn a personal tool into a product --and to support  
> it.  If every developer made a modest tool and shared it for a  
> modest fee, then it would be a break even proposition --the fees  
> received from other developers = the fees payed for other  
> developers tools.
>
>  I believe that the tools offered for sale in this community do not  
> actually pay back for the time and effort in their development.   
> The fee charged just insures that those who buy it, need it, and it  
> pays for their support.  I believe it is mostly a labor of love and  
> sharing, but a developer needs an incentive to rationalize the time  
> spent on a "product" with no initial paying customer.  There is  
> also a promotion of reputation in the process that is good for  
> getting future contract work.



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Fri Oct 21 10:30:26 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:30:26 -0400
Subject: Constellation
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968307@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

Surely, by now, you have found that Rev users are very willing to help
each other out, free of charge?

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Thomas
McGrath III
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 10:24 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Constellation

Dennis,

This sounds reasonable. I guess my 'fear' is that once 'everyone'  
says "Hey, I can sell this using this list as my source of customers"  
then this list and the attitude turns and starts to feel just like  
Director and it's lists. That is why I stopped developing in Director  
in the first place, not enough community support and 'greedy  
appearing' developers that won't share their time with newbies or  
with someone that is just struggling with a piece of code. (Not all  
Director developers are like this, but enough to make me switch to  
REV. Also, It is not guaranteed that this would happen here but it  
might.)

P.S. I bought Constellation and the whole set of Gadgets. I only  
really wanted one part of it and was curious about productivity  
increase with the rest. (The video's actually sold me with the  
support from users on the list.)

Tom

On Oct 20, 2005, at 10:30 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:

> However, I don't begrudge any developer, who has taken on the task  
> of producing a significant tool for development, a modest fee for  
> sharing it.  It takes a lot of work (and time away from paying  
> customers) to turn a personal tool into a product --and to support  
> it.  If every developer made a modest tool and shared it for a  
> modest fee, then it would be a break even proposition --the fees  
> received from other developers = the fees payed for other  
> developers tools.
>
>  I believe that the tools offered for sale in this community do not  
> actually pay back for the time and effort in their development.   
> The fee charged just insures that those who buy it, need it, and it  
> pays for their support.  I believe it is mostly a labor of love and  
> sharing, but a developer needs an incentive to rationalize the time  
> spent on a "product" with no initial paying customer.  There is  
> also a promotion of reputation in the process that is good for  
> getting future contract work.

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Oct 21 10:40:28 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:40:28 -0400
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968307@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968307@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <13E73346-013E-4821-880F-2093E5B48AB2@adelphia.net>

Jonathan,

Absolutely, That is why, even though I spent $1,200 on Director, I  
decided to switch to Revolution 'enterprise user'. I had spent time  
lurking on this list and after a while it hit me "Wow, These guys  
really care. They want to help people just like I do. They want to  
see people succeed in this endeavor."  I have not been disappointed  
since then. I was just sharing my fear that it 'could' happen here. I  
certainly hope it does not and I know I would not change.

This is the best list I have ever been on. The people are selfless  
and caring. I love it.


Tom

On Oct 21, 2005, at 10:30 AM, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

> Surely, by now, you have found that Rev users are very willing to help
> each other out, free of charge?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Thomas
> McGrath III
> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 10:24 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Constellation
>
> Dennis,
>
> This sounds reasonable. I guess my 'fear' is that once 'everyone'
> says "Hey, I can sell this using this list as my source of customers"
> then this list and the attitude turns and starts to feel just like
> Director and it's lists. That is why I stopped developing in Director
> in the first place, not enough community support and 'greedy
> appearing' developers that won't share their time with newbies or
> with someone that is just struggling with a piece of code. (Not all
> Director developers are like this, but enough to make me switch to
> REV. Also, It is not guaranteed that this would happen here but it
> might.)
>
> P.S. I bought Constellation and the whole set of Gadgets. I only
> really wanted one part of it and was curious about productivity
> increase with the rest. (The video's actually sold me with the
> support from users on the list.)
>
> Tom
>
> On Oct 20, 2005, at 10:30 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:
>
>
>> However, I don't begrudge any developer, who has taken on the task
>> of producing a significant tool for development, a modest fee for
>> sharing it.  It takes a lot of work (and time away from paying
>> customers) to turn a personal tool into a product --and to support
>> it.  If every developer made a modest tool and shared it for a
>> modest fee, then it would be a break even proposition --the fees
>> received from other developers = the fees payed for other
>> developers tools.
>>
>>  I believe that the tools offered for sale in this community do not
>> actually pay back for the time and effort in their development.
>> The fee charged just insures that those who buy it, need it, and it
>> pays for their support.  I believe it is mostly a labor of love and
>> sharing, but a developer needs an incentive to rationalize the time
>> spent on a "product" with no initial paying customer.  There is
>> also a promotion of reputation in the process that is good for
>> getting future contract work.
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Fri Oct 21 10:46:49 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:46:49 +0200
Subject: AW: Resizing Boxes
In-Reply-To: <1e.502450c4.308a3dce@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCOEDDDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hi Joe,

this would be a crude fix but you might try it:
Edit the script of the stack using

edit the script of stack "revMenuManager"

and then put in

on openStack
	set the rect of stack "revMenuManager" to "100,100,580,540"
	-- pobably add: pass openStack
end openStack

Try to save the stack (it worked on my PC).

All the best
Thomas

--
Thomas Fischer
Salzburg 

> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]Im Auftrag von
> AbilityForms at aol.com
> Gesendet: Freitag, 21. Oktober 2005 14:49
> An: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Betreff: Re: Resizing Boxes
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 10/20/05 9:42:03 PM, revolution at jaedworks.com writes:
> 
> 
> > At 6:11 PM -0400 10/20/2005, AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
> > >Is there a way to resize the menu builder window? I'm using 
> Mac OSX. That
> > >window now takes up my entire screen. I figure my software or 
> stacks are
> > >corrupted, but since they still work I'm trying to find a way 
> to deal with 
> > it.
> > 
> > Try typing this in the message box:
> > 
> > ?? set the rect of stack "revMenuManager" to "100,100,580,540"
> > 
> 
> I did that and it works! The that is only a temporary fix though. 
> I saved the 
> stack after doing that and then closed and reopened it and the 
> Menu Manager 
> was full screen again. :(
> 
> Joe
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Fri Oct 21 10:46:57 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:46:57 -0400
Subject: Constellation
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968309@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

I am amazed when I see things that come into existence through a
community-spirit motivation - it renews my faith in the core goodness of
humanity (forgive my corniness):)

The two examples that stand out for me in this regard are this list, and
wikipedia.

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Thomas
McGrath III
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 10:40 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Constellation

Jonathan,

Absolutely, That is why, even though I spent $1,200 on Director, I  
decided to switch to Revolution 'enterprise user'. I had spent time  
lurking on this list and after a while it hit me "Wow, These guys  
really care. They want to help people just like I do. They want to  
see people succeed in this endeavor."  I have not been disappointed  
since then. I was just sharing my fear that it 'could' happen here. I  
certainly hope it does not and I know I would not change.

This is the best list I have ever been on. The people are selfless  
and caring. I love it.


Tom

On Oct 21, 2005, at 10:30 AM, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

> Surely, by now, you have found that Rev users are very willing to help
> each other out, free of charge?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Thomas
> McGrath III
> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 10:24 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Constellation
>
> Dennis,
>
> This sounds reasonable. I guess my 'fear' is that once 'everyone'
> says "Hey, I can sell this using this list as my source of customers"
> then this list and the attitude turns and starts to feel just like
> Director and it's lists. That is why I stopped developing in Director
> in the first place, not enough community support and 'greedy
> appearing' developers that won't share their time with newbies or
> with someone that is just struggling with a piece of code. (Not all
> Director developers are like this, but enough to make me switch to
> REV. Also, It is not guaranteed that this would happen here but it
> might.)
>
> P.S. I bought Constellation and the whole set of Gadgets. I only
> really wanted one part of it and was curious about productivity
> increase with the rest. (The video's actually sold me with the
> support from users on the list.)
>
> Tom
>
> On Oct 20, 2005, at 10:30 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:
>
>
>> However, I don't begrudge any developer, who has taken on the task
>> of producing a significant tool for development, a modest fee for
>> sharing it.  It takes a lot of work (and time away from paying
>> customers) to turn a personal tool into a product --and to support
>> it.  If every developer made a modest tool and shared it for a
>> modest fee, then it would be a break even proposition --the fees
>> received from other developers = the fees payed for other
>> developers tools.
>>
>>  I believe that the tools offered for sale in this community do not
>> actually pay back for the time and effort in their development.
>> The fee charged just insures that those who buy it, need it, and it
>> pays for their support.  I believe it is mostly a labor of love and
>> sharing, but a developer needs an incentive to rationalize the time
>> spent on a "product" with no initial paying customer.  There is
>> also a promotion of reputation in the process that is good for
>> getting future contract work.
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

_______________________________________________
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use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
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From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Oct 21 10:56:42 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:56:42 -0400
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968309@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968309@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <A260886F-8D3F-4BD2-AC98-9A9C76253381@adelphia.net>

Not corny at all. I agree with you. The spirit of this list pushes me  
to help others as well. And that is rewarding in itself.

Tom

On Oct 21, 2005, at 10:46 AM, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

> I am amazed when I see things that come into existence through a
> community-spirit motivation - it renews my faith in the core  
> goodness of
> humanity (forgive my corniness):)
>
> The two examples that stand out for me in this regard are this  
> list, and
> wikipedia.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Thomas
> McGrath III
> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 10:40 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Constellation
>
> Jonathan,
>
> Absolutely, That is why, even though I spent $1,200 on Director, I
> decided to switch to Revolution 'enterprise user'. I had spent time
> lurking on this list and after a while it hit me "Wow, These guys
> really care. They want to help people just like I do. They want to
> see people succeed in this endeavor."  I have not been disappointed
> since then. I was just sharing my fear that it 'could' happen here. I
> certainly hope it does not and I know I would not change.
>
> This is the best list I have ever been on. The people are selfless
> and caring. I love it.
>
>
> Tom
>
> On Oct 21, 2005, at 10:30 AM, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:
>
>
>> Surely, by now, you have found that Rev users are very willing to  
>> help
>> each other out, free of charge?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Thomas
>> McGrath III
>> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 10:24 AM
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: Re: Constellation
>>
>> Dennis,
>>
>> This sounds reasonable. I guess my 'fear' is that once 'everyone'
>> says "Hey, I can sell this using this list as my source of customers"
>> then this list and the attitude turns and starts to feel just like
>> Director and it's lists. That is why I stopped developing in Director
>> in the first place, not enough community support and 'greedy
>> appearing' developers that won't share their time with newbies or
>> with someone that is just struggling with a piece of code. (Not all
>> Director developers are like this, but enough to make me switch to
>> REV. Also, It is not guaranteed that this would happen here but it
>> might.)
>>
>> P.S. I bought Constellation and the whole set of Gadgets. I only
>> really wanted one part of it and was curious about productivity
>> increase with the rest. (The video's actually sold me with the
>> support from users on the list.)
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> On Oct 20, 2005, at 10:30 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> However, I don't begrudge any developer, who has taken on the task
>>> of producing a significant tool for development, a modest fee for
>>> sharing it.  It takes a lot of work (and time away from paying
>>> customers) to turn a personal tool into a product --and to support
>>> it.  If every developer made a modest tool and shared it for a
>>> modest fee, then it would be a break even proposition --the fees
>>> received from other developers = the fees payed for other
>>> developers tools.
>>>
>>>  I believe that the tools offered for sale in this community do not
>>> actually pay back for the time and effort in their development.
>>> The fee charged just insures that those who buy it, need it, and it
>>> pays for their support.  I believe it is mostly a labor of love and
>>> sharing, but a developer needs an incentive to rationalize the time
>>> spent on a "product" with no initial paying customer.  There is
>>> also a promotion of reputation in the process that is good for
>>> getting future contract work.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Oct 21 11:00:09 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:00:09 +0200
Subject: strange issue
In-Reply-To: <OFF267C262.754219B3-ONC12570A1.00202DBC-C12570A1.002405FA@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <20051021142827.36FB982522F@mail.runrev.com>

Oh My! 

Yes, I got a second stack with the same issue...
Yet, other stacks work correctly with the same property...
yet these work ok in my other systems!

I singled it out to the 2.6.1 engine...

Can anyone remember if they have had problems with global names conflicting
with custom property names? 

Seriously scared:
If rev cannot differentiate between <globalname> and <customproperty[] of
control> there may be many more errors going to be present elsewhere.

No, I don?t want to be an alarmist, im just wondering if anyone has seen
this too I case it gets serious later. 

AFTER some testing, I found that if you 

set the xos["dragstack"] to true

it works again... But I feel lucky that I found this issue (and solution). 

Question is, how do you know if your data or your handler is corrupt?

Answer: 
<script>
get the xos["dragstack"]
if "Handler: Running low on memory, script aborted
recursionLimit: Recursion limit reached
abs: error in source expression
accept: bad expression" is in it then...
it's corrupt!
</script>

Is there a stack format change between 2.5 or 2.6 and 2.6.1?

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo
________________________________

	From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com
[mailto:xavier.bury at clearstream.com] 
	Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 8:34 AM
	To: x at monsieurx.com; How to use Revolution
	Subject: Re: strange issue
	
	

	After some testing, it seems this engine specific and not a revGUI
issue. 
	I thought it could have been the revmessage box but it also happens
in MetaCard's msg box. 
	
	So MC engine version 2.6.6 has a problem! Any confirmations to enter
a concrete bugzilla 
	is welcome... 
	
	Second bugzilla today!!! 
	
	
	
	use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 21/10/2005
06:40:44:
	
	> I have this custom prop
	> 
	> put the xos["dragstack"] of this stack 
	> 
	> It tell TAOO whether a stack can be dragged on a mousedown
event...
	> 
	> very handy...
	> 
	> but if I start checking this on one stack EditNO2 in the message
box
	> if get all the error messages in the answer!
	> 
	> put the xos["dragstack"] of stack "editno2"
	> 
	> Handler: Running low on memory, script aborted
	> recursionLimit: Recursion limit reached
	> abs: error in source expression
	> accept: bad expression
	> etc...
	> 
	> if I put the script in a button it works - although the 
	> mousedown handler doesn?t!!!
	> 
	> If I debug the mousedown handler rev freezes...
	> If I debug the handler and do the put xos["dragstack"] 
	> show into the message, the xos["dragstack"] is empty!!!
	> 
	> im pretty sure that im selecting the right stack's cusom props.
	> Im sure the prop is there and it contains "true"...
	> 
	> can anyone explain this? 
	> This works fine in rr 2.5 but no more in 2.6.1...
	> 
	> cheers
	> Xavier
	> 
	> _______________________________________________
	> use-revolution mailing list
	> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
	> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
	> subscription preferences:
	> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
	



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 21 11:22:12 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:22:12 -0500
Subject: Resizing Boxes
In-Reply-To: <210.c0b250a.308a3cba@aol.com>
References: <210.c0b250a.308a3cba@aol.com>
Message-ID: <435907A4.2010204@hyperactivesw.com>

AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:

> I think my problems began when I was in a 
> field inspector screen. Instead of putting in the left position as a three digit 
> number as I wanted to I stupidly typed in a six digit number. After doing 
> that revolution crashed and it hasn't been the same since.

That's good info. If that's really what caused the problem, then it 
seems like a simple reinstall should fix it, which would cause Rev to 
revert to its default settings. Did you try that?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From AbilityForms at aol.com  Fri Oct 21 11:29:11 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:29:11 EDT
Subject: AW: Resizing Boxes
Message-ID: <12c.68d2ce4c.308a6347@aol.com>


In a message dated 10/21/05 10:47:09 AM, fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de 
writes:


> Hi Joe,
> 
> this would be a crude fix but you might try it:
> Edit the script of the stack using
> 
> edit the script of stack "revMenuManager"
> 
> and then put in
> 
> on openStack
> ? ? set the rect of stack "revMenuManager" to "100,100,580,540"
> ? ? -- probably add: pass openStack
> end openStack
> 
> Try to save the stack (it worked on my PC).
> 
> All the best
> Thomas
> 

Hi Thomas,

Thanks that worked nicely. Now I need to fix the inspector and the error 
boxes.

I was surprised that your script didn't work as a preOpenStack handler.

Joe


From AbilityForms at aol.com  Fri Oct 21 11:32:38 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:32:38 EDT
Subject: Resizing Boxes
Message-ID: <1de.464fa9ad.308a6416@aol.com>


In a message dated 10/21/05 11:22:52 AM, jacque at hyperactivesw.com writes:


> > I think my problems began when I was in a
> > field inspector screen. Instead of putting in the left position as a three 
> digit
> > number as I wanted to I stupidly typed in a six digit number. After doing
> > that revolution crashed and it hasn't been the same since.
> 
> That's good info. If that's really what caused the problem, then it
> seems like a simple reinstall should fix it, which would cause Rev to
> revert to its default settings. Did you try that?
> 

I tried that but it didn't work. I think there's something wrong with my 
stacks not Revolution. I also tried trashing the Rev preferences. That also didn't 
fix it. I found two preferences files, Perhaps there are more and I didn't 
trash the right one.

Joe


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Fri Oct 21 11:51:46 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:51:46 +0200
Subject: Rev Built-in cursors IDs
Message-ID: <A9D0D703-80DB-4060-B816-89A99A5C76F6@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi all,

All built-in cursors IDs have been changed between Rev 2.6 and 2.6.1.
For instance ID 202619 has been changed for 76 and there is no  
numeric relation between the old and the new ones.
This is not important for standalones but is really annoying for  
stacks, utilities, plugins, etc.
I know that ID 1 to 100 are theoretically reserved for built-in cursors.
This feature was not respected: Now it is and you have to revise all  
your stuff  :-(
The lesson seems to be: don't trust the image library provided by  
RunRev and import by yourself all needed images into a stack if you  
don't plan to make a standalone ;-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 21 12:08:02 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:08:02 -0500
Subject: Learning center videos don't play
Message-ID: <43591262.3080609@hyperactivesw.com>

Someone running Windows XP is having problems running the Learning 
Center videos, and I'm wondering if anyone here has encountered this 
problem before. The videos download correctly and are stored in the 
correct Revolution cache folder, so a network problem isn't the reason. 
If he double-clicks the video inside the folder, Windows Media Player 
launches and plays the video okay, which means the codec is also 
correctly installed. However, the video does not display or play when he 
clicks the Play button inside the Revolution Learning Center after the 
download. He has installed QuickTime to see if that helps, but the 
result is the same.

Has anyone else encountered this?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Fri Oct 21 12:09:31 2005
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:09:31 +0200
Subject: Rev Built-in cursors IDs
In-Reply-To: <A9D0D703-80DB-4060-B816-89A99A5C76F6@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <A9D0D703-80DB-4060-B816-89A99A5C76F6@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <2F465D7B-B790-4117-9972-71290A3CE6B0@skynet.be>


Le 21-oct.-05 ? 17:51, Eric Chatonet a ?crit :

> Hi all,
>
> All built-in cursors IDs have been changed between Rev 2.6 and 2.6.1.
> For instance ID 202619 has been changed for 76 and there is no  
> numeric relation between the old and the new ones.
> This is not important for standalones but is really annoying for  
> stacks, utilities, plugins, etc.
> I know that ID 1 to 100 are theoretically reserved for built-in  
> cursors.
> This feature was not respected: Now it is and you have to revise  
> all your stuff  :-(
> The lesson seems to be: don't trust the image library provided by  
> RunRev and import by yourself all needed images into a stack if you  
> don't plan to make a standalone ;-)
>

I agree with your analyze.
More, the cursor 76 looks very smaller on the screen than the 202619


Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Fri Oct 21 12:11:09 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:11:09 -0400
Subject: Rev Built-in cursors IDs
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A996830B@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

You can do this:

Put the ID of image "whatever cursor" of card "myCard" of stack
"myStack" into tID

Set the cursor to tID


This way, it figures out the right ID number whenever it switches
cursors - thus avoiding a problem if the ID has changed.

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Eric
Chatonet
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 11:52 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Cc: Runtime Revolution Support
Subject: Rev Built-in cursors IDs

Hi all,

All built-in cursors IDs have been changed between Rev 2.6 and 2.6.1.
For instance ID 202619 has been changed for 76 and there is no  
numeric relation between the old and the new ones.
This is not important for standalones but is really annoying for  
stacks, utilities, plugins, etc.
I know that ID 1 to 100 are theoretically reserved for built-in cursors.
This feature was not respected: Now it is and you have to revise all  
your stuff  :-(
The lesson seems to be: don't trust the image library provided by  
RunRev and import by yourself all needed images into a stack if you  
don't plan to make a standalone ;-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Fri Oct 21 12:33:16 2005
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:33:16 -0500
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <741fd030510201743v27fd40eeia15d42d1a7ffea96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <741fd030510201743v27fd40eeia15d42d1a7ffea96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <363877F9-37F9-45F8-B623-D52AE6EAA99A@daniels-mara.com>

Ben,

When I first got the urge to write another script editor  
(Constellation), I discussed it with Chipp Walters, Chris Bohnert,  
and Dan Shafer. I also chatted with Richard Gaskin about it. The  
first part of that conversation centered around doing Constellation  
as an open source project.

I think you are right about the nature of team work in the Rev  
environs, but also the nature of the Rev developer is part of the  
reason that we don't have a "traditional" open source movement within  
our community. Developers normally disagree on UI, but Rev developers  
disagree on UI and workflow both. I think this is because we are Mac,  
Windows and Linux users. This makes collaborating difficult. You have  
to have a tall dog in the group to say: "This is the way we're going  
to do it."

And then there's the part you highlighted: the technical nuts and  
bolts of versioning, for which there are tools (Chipp's Magic Carpet,  
for one). I think it may be the non-coding part of team work that  
gums up the works IMHO. One way around that is for one person to take  
a project to a certain point where a commitment has been made as to  
direction and then the following becomes less like herding cats. The  
"Burn the boats!" approach it's sometimes called.

That's kind of what I thought I'd do with Constellation. Get it going  
and then call in reinforcements. My initial focus group didn't think  
it was a realistic idea due to the size of the Rev developer customer  
base and because the technology itself was not "mainstream" enough or  
the "darling" of the right group of techies. I think they were right.

We do have our own way of doing things "openly" though, and it seems  
to work. My code is not locked, for instance, and most other Rev  
commercial products aren't either. I have bought product from Key Ray  
and Chipp. Any time I have a project where I am getting paid, I'm  
more than happy to allocate some of the project money to code,  
libraries and products that make a specific contribution to the  
project. As someone said before...we exchange money with each other a  
lot.

Also, in open source environs, SOMEBODY puts up some money SOMEWHERE.  
IBM, for example, pays a lot of people to contribute to the open  
source community because it is in its best interests. Others donate  
time because they know they will get speaker or consultant fees for  
the knowledge they will accrue in the process of working for "free."  
I think you get my drift here.

I think the way we're doing it is good, but at some point, the  
idealogical, technical and market forces WILL converge or become  
favorable enough to support a more traditional open source movement  
that includes Transcript and/or Revolution.

SO...it's good you bring it  up. Maybe that day of convergence is today.

Best,

Jerry

http://www.daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm
Scripts and properties in a tabbed editor! Video tutorials!


On Oct 20, 2005, at 7:43 PM, Ben Fisher wrote:

> Well, I guess Constellation beat me to it... I had also been  
> working on a
> similar script editing interface. It looks pretty nice though.
>  Just a few comments...
>  It seems like a lot of the plug-ins and tools for Revolution  
> lately are
> being sold. There is nothing wrong with this, in fact most of the  
> time these
> products look nicer and are easier to use.
>  However, I am always more attracted to free open-source projects,  
> not just
> because of the price, but also because of the spirit. Developers  
> helping
> each other, one of the reasons I subscribe to this list. If I download
> open-source code, I can contribute to the project. All fellow  
> developers can
> profit from my contributions, and not just the few who can afford  
> to buy.
> Perhaps Revolution is partly at fault: that stacks (not being text  
> files)
> are not as easy to be developed by a team. Or maybe I just belong to a
> different generation of coders?
>  After thriving off of free software for so long, it felt kind of  
> awkward
> for me to spend the money to even upgrade my version of Revolution.  
> Paying
> money just to get the language? I'm sure many other potential Rev  
> developers
> are discouraged by the same type of feelings.
>  I propose that a central website be created, full of code from the  
> Rev
> universe. More structured than a wiki, files would be uploaded into
> categories and directories, but the whole database could be quickly
> searched. Most importantly, there would be a section composed of  
> tools and
> utilities all completely free and open source. I know websites like  
> this
> already exist, but it would be so much cooler if there were one
> authoritative Rev Source.
>  -Ben Fisher
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Oct 21 12:44:13 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:44:13 -0700
Subject: Learning center videos don't play
In-Reply-To: <43591262.3080609@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <43591262.3080609@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <A9166F6A-1A26-491F-BD64-4B69D45A86D7@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 21, 2005, at 9:08 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Someone running Windows XP is having problems running the Learning  
> Center videos, and I'm wondering if anyone here has encountered  
> this problem before. The videos download correctly and are stored  
> in the correct Revolution cache folder, so a network problem isn't  
> the reason. If he double-clicks the video inside the folder,  
> Windows Media Player launches and plays the video okay, which means  
> the codec is also correctly installed. However, the video does not  
> display or play when he clicks the Play button inside the  
> Revolution Learning Center after the download. He has installed  
> QuickTime to see if that helps, but the result is the same.

Jacque,

The video playing in Windows Media Player doesn't mean the codec is  
installed for QuickTime.  The videos use the Ensharpen codec if I  
remember correctly.  This is just the QuickTime wrapper for the  
TechSmith tscc codec.  You can have the Windows Media version of the  
codec installed but not the QuickTime version.  You may want to check  
this by trying to open the videos in QuickTime player.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct 21 12:47:09 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:47:09 -0700
Subject: Rev Built-in cursors IDs
In-Reply-To: <A9D0D703-80DB-4060-B816-89A99A5C76F6@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <A9D0D703-80DB-4060-B816-89A99A5C76F6@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <43591B8D.6030603@fourthworld.com>

Eric Chatonet wrote:

> All built-in cursors IDs have been changed between Rev 2.6 and 2.6.1.
> For instance ID 202619 has been changed for 76 and there is no  numeric 
> relation between the old and the new ones.
> This is not important for standalones but is really annoying for  
> stacks, utilities, plugins, etc.

I believe this change is an effort to bring IDs back into the "reserved" 
ranges stated in the docs.

While possible momentarily annoying, this is not the first change to 
cursor IDs and is a better choice than the last one.  This change 
effectively corrects the out-of-range IDs introduced the last time 
cursor IDs were changed (v2.5?).

Honoring reserved ID ranges benefits us all.  So while some may need to 
make one-time changes, just as they did the last time cursor IDs 
changed, at least this time we know the cursor IDs will not conflict 
with any other IDs outside of the reserved ranges.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Fri Oct 21 12:48:57 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:48:57 +0200
Subject: Rev Built-in cursors IDs
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A996830B@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A996830B@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <28147348-BEF7-4474-9498-D0F8536D74B2@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Lynch,

Would you mean:
put the ID of image "magnifier win.gif" of card "card id 1002" of  
stack "revCustomCursors" into tID :-)
A bit long for my brains...
And if, in a further version, Runrev changed the name of this stack  
too? ;-)
I prefer import the image by myself...
Just me and the engine!

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 21 oct. 05 ? 18:11, Lynch, Jonathan a ?crit :

> You can do this:
>
> Put the ID of image "whatever cursor" of card "myCard" of stack
> "myStack" into tID
>
> Set the cursor to tID
>
>
> This way, it figures out the right ID number whenever it switches
> cursors - thus avoiding a problem if the ID has changed.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Eric
> Chatonet
> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 11:52 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Cc: Runtime Revolution Support
> Subject: Rev Built-in cursors IDs
>
> Hi all,
>
> All built-in cursors IDs have been changed between Rev 2.6 and 2.6.1.
> For instance ID 202619 has been changed for 76 and there is no
> numeric relation between the old and the new ones.
> This is not important for standalones but is really annoying for
> stacks, utilities, plugins, etc.
> I know that ID 1 to 100 are theoretically reserved for built-in  
> cursors.
> This feature was not respected: Now it is and you have to revise all
> your stuff  :-(
> The lesson seems to be: don't trust the image library provided by
> RunRev and import by yourself all needed images into a stack if you
> don't plan to make a standalone ;-)
>
> Best Regards from Paris,
>
> Eric Chatonet.

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Fri Oct 21 13:02:53 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:02:53 -0400
Subject: Rev Built-in cursors IDs
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A974464A@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

That is what I mean...

And if they change the name of the image, or of the stack, then yup, you'd be hosed.

It was a suggestion, but I agree that your approach keeps you safest - For my TaskMage (www.workmage.com) stack, I do indeed use my own cursors - can't go wrong that way.

Cheers,

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Eric Chatonet
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 12:49 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Rev Built-in cursors IDs

Hi Lynch,

Would you mean:
put the ID of image "magnifier win.gif" of card "card id 1002" of  
stack "revCustomCursors" into tID :-)
A bit long for my brains...
And if, in a further version, Runrev changed the name of this stack  
too? ;-)
I prefer import the image by myself...
Just me and the engine!

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 21 oct. 05 ? 18:11, Lynch, Jonathan a ?crit :

> You can do this:
>
> Put the ID of image "whatever cursor" of card "myCard" of stack
> "myStack" into tID
>
> Set the cursor to tID
>
>
> This way, it figures out the right ID number whenever it switches
> cursors - thus avoiding a problem if the ID has changed.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Eric
> Chatonet
> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 11:52 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Cc: Runtime Revolution Support
> Subject: Rev Built-in cursors IDs
>
> Hi all,
>
> All built-in cursors IDs have been changed between Rev 2.6 and 2.6.1.
> For instance ID 202619 has been changed for 76 and there is no
> numeric relation between the old and the new ones.
> This is not important for standalones but is really annoying for
> stacks, utilities, plugins, etc.
> I know that ID 1 to 100 are theoretically reserved for built-in  
> cursors.
> This feature was not respected: Now it is and you have to revise all
> your stuff  :-(
> The lesson seems to be: don't trust the image library provided by
> RunRev and import by yourself all needed images into a stack if you
> don't plan to make a standalone ;-)
>
> Best Regards from Paris,
>
> Eric Chatonet.

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Fri Oct 21 13:08:04 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:08:04 +0200
Subject: Rev Built-in cursors IDs
In-Reply-To: <43591B8D.6030603@fourthworld.com>
References: <A9D0D703-80DB-4060-B816-89A99A5C76F6@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<43591B8D.6030603@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <4C58EB79-84F3-4C01-B992-1D8F86837A1E@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Richard,

As I said, I understand the idea to bring IDs back into the  
"reserved" range stated in the documentation.
But as far as I know (I have just verified), cursors IDs had not  
changed since Rev 1.1.1 (the oldest version I have)
So it seems to be a real 2.6.1 novelty :-(

Le 21 oct. 05 ? 18:47, Richard Gaskin a ?crit :

> Eric Chatonet wrote:
>
>> All built-in cursors IDs have been changed between Rev 2.6 and 2.6.1.
>> For instance ID 202619 has been changed for 76 and there is no   
>> numeric relation between the old and the new ones.
>> This is not important for standalones but is really annoying for   
>> stacks, utilities, plugins, etc.
>>
>
> I believe this change is an effort to bring IDs back into the  
> "reserved" ranges stated in the docs.
>
> While possible momentarily annoying, this is not the first change  
> to cursor IDs and is a better choice than the last one.  This  
> change effectively corrects the out-of-range IDs introduced the  
> last time cursor IDs were changed (v2.5?).
>
> Honoring reserved ID ranges benefits us all.  So while some may  
> need to make one-time changes, just as they did the last time  
> cursor IDs changed, at least this time we know the cursor IDs will  
> not conflict with any other IDs outside of the reserved ranges.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Oct 21 13:10:04 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:10:04 -0500
Subject: Metal button
In-Reply-To: <p06230901bf7d83052924@[192.168.1.104]>
References: <CEDD4D1A-88F1-4294-9C8D-E861CEA05D79@online.fr>	<20051020154410.vg01yykaec8swgs0@webmail.armbase.com>
	<p06230901bf7d83052924@[192.168.1.104]>
Message-ID: <435920EC.9040109@chipp.com>

Hi Stephen,

Here's the deal with ButtonGadget for Mac. You see, one of the neatest 
features of ButtonGadget is you can just click an image on a web page 
and it will auto-download and launch ButtonGadget.

This bit of trickery worked fine a couple years ago when BG was first 
created. Getting this feature to work on the Mac with Safari is much 
more difficult (if not impossible), and it's also becoming more 
difficult to do it with all the 'protective features' of web browsers on 
PC's as well. So, what I really need is a rewrite of ButtonGadget's 
buttonset libraries.

And while I'm at it, I should allow people to build their own buttons 
templates as well (now they can import them from Photoshop/GIMP/PSP Png 
files). Plus, I'm in the process of adding a whole bunch of cool editing 
parts including BittyFont (small bitmap font rendering engine for Rev) 
and some cool new widget building tools (kinda like Interface Designer 
stuff on steroids).

Of course if you really have to have it, you can purchase the PC 
version, go to the special users area, download the ButtonGadgetPro 
beta, which installs a stack in your libraries folder, which should run 
just fine on Mac. You'll of course need to right-click the buttonsets 
from the webpage and 'save target as' to the buttonplugins folder so 
they appear in your library.

best,

Chipp

Stephen Barncard wrote:
> Except there is NO $%^##$% MAC VERSION of Button Gadget...
> 
> long, long ago, there used to be...OS9?
> It had a few bugs but it worked...
> 
> I've been meaning to ask Chipp:
> What is it about Windoze that makes it work? Wasn't it written in 
> Transcript?
> Or is it just about priorities/time (which I fully understand)?
> 
> 
>> Quoting Ren? Micout <rmicout at online.fr>:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> How can I make "metal button aspect" like, for example, in iPhoto
>>
>>
>> You could do what I did and buy Button-Gadget Pro from Altuit.
>> http://www.buttongadget.com/buttongadget/AboutButtonGadget.htm
>> Her you can see a screenshot.
>>
>> bob
> 
> 



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Oct 21 13:10:20 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:10:20 -0500
Subject: Metal button
In-Reply-To: <CEDD4D1A-88F1-4294-9C8D-E861CEA05D79@online.fr>
References: <CEDD4D1A-88F1-4294-9C8D-E861CEA05D79@online.fr>
Message-ID: <435920FC.5070909@chipp.com>

Sorry, late to this thread. I have a nifty little 'metal button' 
tutorial for photoshop users at: www.chipp.com

Ren? Micout wrote:
> Hello,
> How can I make "metal button aspect" like, for example, in iPhoto



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Oct 21 13:10:31 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:10:31 -0500
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <741fd030510201743v27fd40eeia15d42d1a7ffea96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <741fd030510201743v27fd40eeia15d42d1a7ffea96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43592107.2070902@chipp.com>

Hi Ben,

I certainly understand the allure of open source-- and am thankful for
it. Interestingly, it is not totally the 'free spirited not for profit'
many believe it to be, as many of those who are involved have sound
business (commercial money-making) reasons for doing so-- like IBM and
Linspire.

In fact there are entire business strategies around how to profit from
starting an open source project.

Take MySQL for instance. If you want to use it for your company, you
must pay a license fee (and it's not that small either).

I look at all software as tools (I'm not a gamer;-), and I always ask
myself what the benefit of a purchased software tool is to me vs the
time I would need to create it or download a 'free' version. For
instance, TechSmith makes Camtasia, a fine commercial product for 
capturing screen activity and making a movie of it. I know there are a 
lot of freeware and opensource alternatives, but I choose the Camtasia 
product because it's more robust, has more features, and is better 
supported. I'm willing to trade $$$ for this convenience. Others are not 
and that's certainly their perogative!

I believe Richard Gaskin said it quite well on an earlier post:

"The irony of GPL is that it can unfairly favor the wealthy:  common
workers need to eat and pay rent, leaving only those with sufficient
wealth for significant leisure projects able to work on GPL stuff.  Once
this wealth is applied to an application category, "free" can have the
same effect as the antitrust violation of "dumping", driving working
people out of the market leaving only the product driven by unrelated
wealth.

Sorry Mr. Stallman, but that's what happens in a "gift economy" when
programmers are the only ones gifting while landlords and grocers still
expect to be paid."

That said, I think OS projects can work in Rev. Take a look at the 
MetaCard IDE for instance, it's all open sourced (though it didn't start 
that way).

Regarding multiple users working together, I have an interesting story.

Richard Gaskin, Jacque Gay and I all have our own property editor
plugins which display ALL the rev control props, not just the ones the
Rev IDE lets you see. So, we decided to group our ideas and make a
single 'super' object prop editor in an 'open source' sort of way, and
include it in the standard Rev IDE distro. Sounds like a fairly simple idea.

Now, I believe all three of us to be competent Rev programmers,
each with a couple commercial apps coded in Transcript under our belt. 
As we sat down to do this simple task, it became evident the management 
of the decision process was much more 'time and process intensive' than 
just writing the damn thing, which any of us could do easily!

Truly a valuable insight to me. I don't think it ever got finished. At 
least it's not in the distro at this time. We all just had too much 
other stuff to do. (I notice in a previous post of yours, you too, have 
similar time constraints for creating 'free' stuff).

Now that's only a single instance, but does point out how sometimes it's 
  much easier to sit down and write your own product, sell it or give it 
away, than work with a group to develop it. In fact, most my free 
plugins are developed just this way. I have a need, develop for myself 
and give it to the community.

best wishes,

Chipp

Ben Fisher wrote:
> It seems like a lot of the plug-ins and tools 
> for Revolution lately are being sold.

> However, I am always more attracted to free 
> open-source projects, not just because of the price, but also because
>  of the spirit. Developers helping each other, one of the reasons I 
> subscribe to this list. If I download open-source code, I can 
> contribute to the project. All fellow developers can profit from my 
> contributions, and not just the few who can afford to buy.



From tkuypers at pandora.be  Fri Oct 21 13:19:30 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:19:30 +0200
Subject: Slightly OT: Setting privileges on OS-X
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860510191616j328e37eete6fdcc377c7c4112@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9BAEE514-E2D3-42B0-9DF4-D45F13D87A46@pandora.be>
	<f99b52860510191616j328e37eete6fdcc377c7c4112@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <01C1C448-76AC-46F0-BE69-FBEC1F60C1EE@pandora.be>

Sarah,

I knew I had to use the chmod command, but thanks to you it is up and  
running :-))

Many thanks for your help!

Ton


On 20-okt-05, at 01:16, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>> Are there Unix-wizzkids out there?
>>
>> I've created a small RR app that creates a bunch of standard folders
>> (like the list below) where users can drop job-related items in.
>>
>> Now I need to secure these folders, but not the content...
>> The folders I create may not be deleted by a user, only by the owner,
>> which will be me :-)) but the users are allowed to create new folders
>> or files in the basic folders. These files and folders they should be
>> able to change, delete, rename, etc.
>>
>>
>
> Hi Ton,
>
> I don't claim to be a Unix-wizzkid at all, but I have learnt some
> stuff about privileges.
>
> Each file or folder in Unix / OS X has 3 sets of privileges: owner,
> group & guest.
> There are 3 settings in each set: read, write and execute (r, w & x).
>
> If you open a Terminal window and type "ls -l" and press Return, you
> will see a list of items in the current folder. The first section of
> the data shows the current privilege settings.
> Here is an example:
> -rwxr-xr-x    a file where the owner can do anything (rwx) , the group
> can read & execute but not write (r-x) and guests (anyone else) can
> also read & execute but not write (r-x).
>
> If the first character was "d" instead of "-", then it would be a
> folder (directory).
>
> To change these settings, you need to use the "chmod" command.
> To add write privileges for all users to a file, use a command like  
> this:
>      chmod a+w filename
> To remove write privileges, use this:
>     chmod a-w filename
>
> However this does not stop people deleting your files or folders. To
> make a folder "sticky" i.e. make it so that users other than the owner
> can only add files and not delete them, use this command:
>     chmod +t foldername
>
> To make files undeletable, I would use an AppleScript to toggle their
> "locked" setting:
> Here is an example that asks for a file, then locks it so it cannot  
> be deleted.
>
> tell application "Finder"
>     set tFile to choose file
>     set the locked of file tFile to true
> end tell
>
> I hope this helps, but please email me directly if you think I can be
> of any further assistance.
>
> Sarah
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Oct 21 13:24:45 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:24:45 -0700
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <363877F9-37F9-45F8-B623-D52AE6EAA99A@daniels-mara.com>
References: <741fd030510201743v27fd40eeia15d42d1a7ffea96@mail.gmail.com>
	<363877F9-37F9-45F8-B623-D52AE6EAA99A@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <1714029834.20051021102445@ahsoftware.net>

Jerry-

Friday, October 21, 2005, 9:33:16 AM, you wrote:

> Developers normally disagree on UI, but Rev developers
> disagree on UI and workflow both.

ROTFL

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Fri Oct 21 13:29:17 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:29:17 +0200
Subject: AW: AW: Resizing Boxes
In-Reply-To: <12c.68d2ce4c.308a6347@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCCEDIDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hi,

> Thanks that worked nicely. Now I need to fix the inspector and the error 
> boxes.
> 
> I was surprised that your script didn't work as a preOpenStack handler.

Actually I never thought of this, I'm slowly moving from HyperCard to Revolution and have not arrived yet. No preOpenStack  in HyperCard...
I was only wondering if you could edit the stack script, since it looks a lot like you're not supposed to - on Windows at least all the inspectors and script items on the Object menu are greyed out.

But it really looks like messed up preferences. Does nobody know where and how Revolution stores the rects of these stacks and boxes? Possibly in the license.rev stack?

All the best
Thomas

--
Thomas Fischer
Salzburg 



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Fri Oct 21 13:48:34 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:48:34 +0200
Subject: AW: AW: Resizing Boxes
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCCEDIDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
References: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCCEDIDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <9C70021C-3405-45A0-971A-58F1653D3FD7@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Thomas,

The main part of the user preferences is stored in the custom  
properties of the Rev Preferences stack.
As for the Menu Builder, only the topleft of the stack (the  
cREVMenuManagerTopLeft of stack "revPreferences") is stored in order  
to position again the window at the same place where it has been closed.
The rect is not saved since it's not a resizable stack.
Allow the "Contextual menus work in Revolution windows" in the  
"General" pane of the Rev Preferences stack and you will be able to  
study this using the contextual menu (Ctrl or right click).

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 21 oct. 05 ? 19:29, Thomas Fischer a ?crit :

> Hi,
>
>
>> Thanks that worked nicely. Now I need to fix the inspector and the  
>> error
>> boxes.
>>
>> I was surprised that your script didn't work as a preOpenStack  
>> handler.
>>
>
> Actually I never thought of this, I'm slowly moving from HyperCard  
> to Revolution and have not arrived yet. No preOpenStack  in  
> HyperCard...
> I was only wondering if you could edit the stack script, since it  
> looks a lot like you're not supposed to - on Windows at least all  
> the inspectors and script items on the Object menu are greyed out.
>
> But it really looks like messed up preferences. Does nobody know  
> where and how Revolution stores the rects of these stacks and  
> boxes? Possibly in the license.rev stack?
>
> All the best
> Thomas
>
> --
> Thomas Fischer
> Salzburg

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
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From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct 21 13:50:28 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:50:28 -0700
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <363877F9-37F9-45F8-B623-D52AE6EAA99A@daniels-mara.com>
References: <741fd030510201743v27fd40eeia15d42d1a7ffea96@mail.gmail.com>
	<363877F9-37F9-45F8-B623-D52AE6EAA99A@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <43592A64.60501@fourthworld.com>

Jerry Daniels wrote:
> And then there's the part you highlighted: the technical nuts and  bolts 
> of versioning, for which there are tools (Chipp's Magic Carpet,  for 
> one). I think it may be the non-coding part of team work that  gums up 
> the works IMHO. One way around that is for one person to take  a project 
> to a certain point where a commitment has been made as to  direction and 
> then the following becomes less like herding cats. The  "Burn the 
> boats!" approach it's sometimes called.
> 
> That's kind of what I thought I'd do with Constellation.

Good call, and reflective of how most successful open source projects 
work, or at least got started.

The "herding cats" aspect is why so many open source projects never get 
off the ground.  In contrast, projects as big as Linux and as small as 
the MetaCard IDE manage to run several years with sucessful releases 
because the project's founder conveyed a clear vision with a finished 
work, providing a mandate that focuses contributor efforts.

Without such a well-communicated mandate projects often languish in 
"analysis paralysis", like a painter standing before a boundless canvas 
wondering where to start.


> Also, in open source environs, SOMEBODY puts up some money SOMEWHERE.  

Yep.

Contrary to the complex theories of some open source advocates, in 
practice it turns out that even open source contributors need to eat. 
The "gift economy" only truly works when everyone gifts, but as long as 
it's only programmers doing the gifting it'll still take cash somewhere 
in the chain to put a roof over the programmer's head and food in her 
stomach while she's typing.

In America the definition of "socialism" has become distorted to the 
point that many misunderstand it to be synonymous with "communism".  And 
yet if we consider that most open source wares began life in 
publicly-funded institutions, in effect what we have is a form of 
"socialized software", in which a portion of the taxes we've paid have 
gone into starting GNU, Mozilla, and other public works.  Personally I 
don't mind this at all; I'd rather have the government displacing 
products from Microsoft than some of the other projects they undertake.

Even the Internet which makes all this possible was for most of its life 
a federally funded project until it was privatized by the Clinton 
administration in mid-90s.

Those of us working on smaller projects don't get federal funding, and 
IBM isn't cutting us checks either (yet, though I do believe AOL wastes 
a significant amount of its development budget by not using Rev; 
hopefully one of us will have the opportunity to explain that to them 
one day).

So instead we cover our development costs in any number of other ways, 
and one of them is asking for value directly from the user in exchange 
for the value recieved.  In a sense commercial software is arguably the 
most egalitarian funding model, as it asks the same contribution from 
everyone who choses to participate.

In conrast, the vast majority of people who benefit from open source 
projects never give anything in return (adding a whole other dimension 
to the word "user" <g>).

With devolution I've experimented with a middle path between gratis and 
commercial packages:  devo is free to use, but one can show their 
support by making a modest payment and get technical support and a 
limited license to the source to boot.

This model has worked well for me: it's brought in very little revenue, 
but since I make devolution for my own use and my clients it doesn't 
matter, as I'm free to build it however I like without having to 
consider the commercial potential of features, or invest heavily in 
documentation.

<rant> And as we've learned from watching SuperCard and Rev over the 
years, it doesn't matter how many tens of thousands of dollars you 
invest in docs, people will always complain about them even when you 
deliver more than companies a hundred times your size.  Indeed the only 
xTalks I've seen with few complaints about the docs were HyperCard, 
which had a plethora of third-party books, and MetaCard, whose pricing 
acted as a sort of whinge filter, eliminating virtually everyone but the 
professional developer. </rant>

I respect and admire your releasing Constellation as a commercial 
product.   For such a polished and useful toolkit your pricing is far 
below what it's worth.  With any luck your users will recognize this and 
buy a couple extra licenses to bring their contribution up to the value 
of what you've delivered to them. :)

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  __________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct 21 14:10:38 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:10:38 -0700
Subject: Rev Built-in cursors IDs
In-Reply-To: <4C58EB79-84F3-4C01-B992-1D8F86837A1E@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <A9D0D703-80DB-4060-B816-89A99A5C76F6@sosmartsoftware.com>	<43591B8D.6030603@fourthworld.com>
	<4C58EB79-84F3-4C01-B992-1D8F86837A1E@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <43592F1E.4020809@fourthworld.com>

Eric Chatonet wrote:
>>> All built-in cursors IDs have been changed between Rev 2.6 and 2.6.1.
>>> For instance ID 202619 has been changed for 76 and there is no   
>>> numeric relation between the old and the new ones.
>>> This is not important for standalones but is really annoying for   
>>> stacks, utilities, plugins, etc.
>>
>> I believe this change is an effort to bring IDs back into the  
>> "reserved" ranges stated in the docs.
>>
>> While possible momentarily annoying, this is not the first change  to 
>> cursor IDs and is a better choice than the last one.  This  change 
>> effectively corrects the out-of-range IDs introduced the  last time 
>> cursor IDs were changed (v2.5?).
>
> As I said, I understand the idea to bring IDs back into the  "reserved" 
> range stated in the documentation.
> But as far as I know (I have just verified), cursors IDs had not  
> changed since Rev 1.1.1 (the oldest version I have)

The hand, arrow, and vertical splitter cursor IDs changed in v2.5:

<http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=2103>
<http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=2032>

Thankfully, with this latest revision we can expect it to be the last 
we'll need to accomodate for a very long time.

Now that all of the cursor IDs are within the established reserved 
ranges, we can hope that going forward if the Rev IDE needs new cursor 
images it'll use new cursor IDs for those, rather than change existing 
cursors.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From jeff at siphonophore.com  Fri Oct 21 14:12:42 2005
From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeffrey Reynolds)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:12:42 -0400
Subject: Mac OS icns
In-Reply-To: <20051018203532.3A46E825352@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051018203532.3A46E825352@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <22b71fbd704d4485fc565097cf4f64b0@siphonophore.com>

Hi,

just wanted to check to make sure i have this correct. to associate icn 
resources with a macos app, the referring resources must be 129 for the 
application and 128 for files, correct? It works in practice for me, 
but the 261 documentation says to use 128 for standalone apps and no 
mention of the files number. in looking at the created apps, 129 is the 
application icn and 128 is the file icn.

cheers,

Jeff



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 21 14:28:10 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:28:10 -0700
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <43592107.2070902@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <BF7E814A.2F662%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Ben brought out an excellent topic, since it could be that Rev needs another
boost in market share and public recognition.  Along the lines of
commentary, I offer my thoughts that may have no bearing on the core of the
issue, but are pertinent to the developers I know and could be possible
contributors to some open source collaboration.

Another factor in the 'value' vs 'benefit' to open source and commercial
software is that the utilizer (user) has to study any of the material and
forge a solution by combining it with something else.  This is also a cost,
often an insidious, slowly-revealing hidden cost.

The effort required could be simple steps to produce a fabulous result and
the end-product that is quite valuable.  In most any case I can think of, a
tool/utility/widget/product is only the beginning of the work path.  I dare
say that many of the attractive/cool utilities that we all collect, end up
gathering magnetic dust in a corner of our hard drives.  There simply is not
enough time to follow through on all the tasks we would like to solve and
master.

It could be as simple as "I am married now", "my wife will kill me", "that
was a lost three days to figure out", "my client is slowing down the
project", "my client is now asking for ****", "after all this work I find
out that what I need next cannot be done"... and on.

Given that there are so many levels of "completion" on our hard drives, it
is more a question of necessity that determines what we manage to finish and
what remains a work in progress.  So many tasks, so little time.

The last factor that I have learned by years of experience is how to correct
for misjudging the time-it-takes-to-finish even the smallest function or
feature.  I constantly find myself saying that will only take 2 hours to do,
and, of course, it takes 4 before I am happy with it.  For me, the
correction is to wake up, smell the coffee and accept that I will get less
done than I like.

I know this is not a philosophical sounding and steeped in more formal
language, but the issues of collaboration go beyond the desire and
opportunity of the participants.  Real life happens while we are merrily
immersed in the abstract world of our choosing.

Go for it, Ben, but realize that at my stage, (recently married, starting
two businesses, approaching retirement in 10 years), I know that I am not a
candidate for collaboration.  I will try to give back to the list and others
as I am able in the coming years, but have to realize my time limitations.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 10/21/05 10:10 AM, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:

> Hi Ben,
> 
> I certainly understand the allure of open source-- and am thankful for
> it. Interestingly, it is not totally the 'free spirited not for profit'
> many believe it to be, as many of those who are involved have sound
> business (commercial money-making) reasons for doing so-- like IBM and
> Linspire.
> 
> In fact there are entire business strategies around how to profit from
> starting an open source project.
> 
> Take MySQL for instance. If you want to use it for your company, you
> must pay a license fee (and it's not that small either).
> 
> I look at all software as tools (I'm not a gamer;-), and I always ask
> myself what the benefit of a purchased software tool is to me vs the
> time I would need to create it or download a 'free' version. For
> instance, TechSmith makes Camtasia, a fine commercial product for
> capturing screen activity and making a movie of it. I know there are a
> lot of freeware and opensource alternatives, but I choose the Camtasia
> product because it's more robust, has more features, and is better
> supported. I'm willing to trade $$$ for this convenience. Others are not
> and that's certainly their perogative!
> 
> I believe Richard Gaskin said it quite well on an earlier post:
> 
> "The irony of GPL is that it can unfairly favor the wealthy:  common
> workers need to eat and pay rent, leaving only those with sufficient
> wealth for significant leisure projects able to work on GPL stuff.  Once
> this wealth is applied to an application category, "free" can have the
> same effect as the antitrust violation of "dumping", driving working
> people out of the market leaving only the product driven by unrelated
> wealth.
> 
> Sorry Mr. Stallman, but that's what happens in a "gift economy" when
> programmers are the only ones gifting while landlords and grocers still
> expect to be paid."
> 
> That said, I think OS projects can work in Rev. Take a look at the
> MetaCard IDE for instance, it's all open sourced (though it didn't start
> that way).
> 
> Regarding multiple users working together, I have an interesting story.
> 
> Richard Gaskin, Jacque Gay and I all have our own property editor
> plugins which display ALL the rev control props, not just the ones the
> Rev IDE lets you see. So, we decided to group our ideas and make a
> single 'super' object prop editor in an 'open source' sort of way, and
> include it in the standard Rev IDE distro. Sounds like a fairly simple idea.
> 
> Now, I believe all three of us to be competent Rev programmers,
> each with a couple commercial apps coded in Transcript under our belt.
> As we sat down to do this simple task, it became evident the management
> of the decision process was much more 'time and process intensive' than
> just writing the damn thing, which any of us could do easily!
> 
> Truly a valuable insight to me. I don't think it ever got finished. At
> least it's not in the distro at this time. We all just had too much
> other stuff to do. (I notice in a previous post of yours, you too, have
> similar time constraints for creating 'free' stuff).
> 
> Now that's only a single instance, but does point out how sometimes it's
>   much easier to sit down and write your own product, sell it or give it
> away, than work with a group to develop it. In fact, most my free
> plugins are developed just this way. I have a need, develop for myself
> and give it to the community.
> 
> best wishes,
> 
> Chipp
> 
> Ben Fisher wrote:
>> It seems like a lot of the plug-ins and tools
>> for Revolution lately are being sold.
> 
>> However, I am always more attracted to free
>> open-source projects, not just because of the price, but also because
>>  of the spirit. Developers helping each other, one of the reasons I
>> subscribe to this list. If I download open-source code, I can
>> contribute to the project. All fellow developers can profit from my
>> contributions, and not just the few who can afford to buy.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From runrev260805 at m-r-d.de  Fri Oct 21 14:44:29 2005
From: runrev260805 at m-r-d.de (runrev260805 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:44:29 +0000
Subject: Re-2: Learning center videos don't play
Message-ID: <DIIE.00000073000179CA@192.168.168.3>

Trevor,

please allow me to answer, as i am the one who has problems opening the videotuts in LearningCenter.
I can open the videos in QuckTimePlayer without a problem.

Matthias 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Learning center videos don't play (21-Okt-2005 18:54)
From:    lists at mangomultimedia.com
To:      runrev260805 at m-r-d.de

> On Oct 21, 2005, at 9:08 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> 
> > Someone running Windows XP is having problems running the Learning  
> > Center videos, and I'm wondering if anyone here has encountered  
> > this problem before. The videos download correctly and are stored  
> > in the correct Revolution cache folder, so a network problem isn't  
> > the reason. If he double-clicks the video inside the folder,  
> > Windows Media Player launches and plays the video okay, which means  
> > the codec is also correctly installed. However, the video does not  
> > display or play when he clicks the Play button inside the  
> > Revolution Learning Center after the download. He has installed  
> > QuickTime to see if that helps, but the result is the same.
> 
> Jacque,
> 
> The video playing in Windows Media Player doesn't mean the codec is  
> installed for QuickTime.  The videos use the Ensharpen codec if I  
> remember correctly.  This is just the QuickTime wrapper for the  
> TechSmith tscc codec.  You can have the Windows Media version of the  
> codec installed but not the QuickTime version.  You may want to check  
> this by trying to open the videos in QuickTime player.
> 
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> Blue Mango Multimedia
> trevor at mangomultimedia.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 
> 
> To: jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>     use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Cc: 




From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Oct 21 14:44:43 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:44:43 -0700
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <BF7E814A.2F662%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
References: <BF7E814A.2F662%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6D4C68DA-A884-40B1-BAF1-2E287E26F06F@danshafer.com>

It is a fundamental Truth of the Universe (when you reach my advanced  
stage of life you can even afford to pontificate now and again) that  
everything takes longer than you think it will even when you take  
into account that everything takes longer than you think it will.

Combine this with your other point, namely that there's just too  
darned much interesting about life in general let alone your digital  
life and you see why so many projects (as you so delightfully phrased  
it) "end up
gathering magnetic dust in a corner of our hard drives."



On Oct 21, 2005, at 11:28 AM, Jim Ault wrote:

> For me, the
> correction is to wake up, smell the coffee and accept that I will  
> get less
> done than I like.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 21 14:55:13 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:55:13 -0500
Subject: Learning center videos don't play
In-Reply-To: <A9166F6A-1A26-491F-BD64-4B69D45A86D7@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <43591262.3080609@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A9166F6A-1A26-491F-BD64-4B69D45A86D7@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <43593991.7010304@hyperactivesw.com>

Trevor DeVore wrote:
 > On Oct 21, 2005, at 9:08 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
 >
 >> Someone running Windows XP is having problems running the Learning
 >> Center videos, and I'm wondering if anyone here has encountered  this
 >> problem before. The videos download correctly and are stored  in the
 >> correct Revolution cache folder, so a network problem isn't  the
 >> reason. If he double-clicks the video inside the folder,  Windows
 >> Media Player launches and plays the video okay, which means  the codec
 >> is also correctly installed. However, the video does not  display or
 >> play when he clicks the Play button inside the  Revolution Learning
 >> Center after the download. He has installed  QuickTime to see if that
 >> helps, but the result is the same.
 >
 >
 > Jacque,
 >
 > The video playing in Windows Media Player doesn't mean the codec is
 > installed for QuickTime.  The videos use the Ensharpen codec if I
 > remember correctly.  This is just the QuickTime wrapper for the
 > TechSmith tscc codec.  You can have the Windows Media version of the
 > codec installed but not the QuickTime version.  You may want to check
 > this by trying to open the videos in QuickTime player.
 >

Thanks Trevor. But he only installed QT to see if that helped. As I 
understand it, the videos should have played via WMP to begin with. I 
forgot to mention that he tried installing on a different Windows 
machine as well, with the same non-results. Since Rev installs the codec 
according to platform, I suspected that codecs aren't the problem, but 
of course, I'd love to be wrong. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding something.

Apparently clicking the Play button in the learning center does nothing. 
Any other ideas?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From AbilityForms at aol.com  Fri Oct 21 14:55:48 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:55:48 EDT
Subject: Command-Period
Message-ID: <7f.694bd8f7.308a93b4@aol.com>

Hi Everyone,

It's that newbie pest from Orlando again! In HyperCard I could type 
command-period to stop a script. If I did it when a dialog box is displayed it stops 
the script at that point. Is there a keyboard command I can use in revolution to 
stop a script when a dialog box is displayed. Obviously Command-Period 
doesn't do it. :(.

Joe, 


From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Oct 21 14:59:17 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:59:17 -0700
Subject: On Getting My Money Five Bucks at a Time
Message-ID: <4741845D-5BC5-4F39-A7A6-5B85533D8BF7@danshafer.com>

The current discussion about open source and commercial software and  
their attendant business models reminded me of an historical artifact  
I decided had some potential interest and value here. I'll share it  
briefly; if you're interested in pursuing it further, I'd be happy to  
participate.

Back in the late 1970's and early 1980's -- a couple of millennia ago  
by computer standards, I know -- there was a company in Oakland, CA,  
called MaxThink run by a very cool guy named Neil Larson. (The  
company's Web site is still online at www.maxthink.biz but I don't  
know if they're still doing business.) Their primary product was  
called, oddly enough, MaxThink. It was an outliner on steroids. It  
ran only on DOS. It sold for something like $50. And I was addicted  
to it. IT did some things that as far as I know no outliner today  
approaches yet.

Neil promoted his products (he had a couple of other titles that were  
also very useful that I also bought, as I recall for less than $50  
each) through a wildly entertaining and outrageously opinionated  
newsletter that came by snail mail every month (this pre-dates the  
Web, of course).

This is the trick. Every 2-3 months, Neil would introduce a new add- 
on or upgrade for his products. These would generally be relatively  
inexpensive (again, memory tells me they were under $20 each as a  
rule) and would be such wonderful additions to the main product or  
improvements on it that you just couldn't see a reason to say no.

Well, one time my company applied for a line of credit at a local  
bank and among other things they asked for an inventory of all the  
software we owned. I was stunned to find that MaxThink had, over the  
space of something like 2-1/2 or 3 years, gotten more of my money  
than Bill Gates had managed. If you'd asked me, I'd have said the  
MaxThink software was near the bottom of the paid value list of  
software we owned but it was at the absolute top.

Subscription models -- which didn't exist then, of course -- that  
offer, for a relatively low-priced product like Constellation or even  
a moderately low priced product like Revolution, enhancements,  
updates and add-ons at small incremental charges (encompassed in the  
subscription but available for extra fees for non-subscribers) seems  
to me to have the best promise for a solid business model for  
software, especially for developers and hard-core users. And I think  
the MaxThink model proves that point.

I'll now return you to your regularly scheduled messaging.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Fri Oct 21 15:09:20 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:09:20 -0400
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <BF7E814A.2F662%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
References: <BF7E814A.2F662%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9252A57A-998A-44C5-A24D-116391DA5E92@conncoll.edu>


On Oct 21, 2005, at 2:28 PM, Jim Ault wrote:

> Another factor in the 'value' vs 'benefit' to open source and  
> commercial
> software is that the utilizer (user) has to study any of the  
> material and
> forge a solution by combining it with something else.  This is also  
> a cost,
> often an insidious, slowly-revealing hidden cost.

Are you saying this is a difference between open-source and  
commercial software? That sure isn't my experience. (Rev provides an  
excellent example of non-open-source software that, for me at least,  
seems to require a lot of cobbling-together to make something finally  
usable.) Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point.

Charles Hartman



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Oct 21 15:19:50 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:19:50 -0500
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <9252A57A-998A-44C5-A24D-116391DA5E92@conncoll.edu>
References: <BF7E814A.2F662%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
	<9252A57A-998A-44C5-A24D-116391DA5E92@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <43593F56.8010807@chipp.com>

Charles,

Notwithstanding your experience and not sure of Jim's intention, I can 
attest to doing the 'multiple free program shuffle' many times. For 
instance to create a VCD from home videos took at least 5 free programs, 
so I just broke down and bought Nero which worked great.

best,

Chipp

Charles Hartman wrote:

> Are you saying this is a difference between open-source and  commercial 
> software? That sure isn't my experience. 



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Oct 21 15:23:54 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:23:54 -0700
Subject: Learning center videos don't play
In-Reply-To: <43593991.7010304@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <43591262.3080609@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A9166F6A-1A26-491F-BD64-4B69D45A86D7@mangomultimedia.com>
	<43593991.7010304@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <B1B44B8C-B9B7-4517-88B3-7EFFFDEF4A31@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 21, 2005, at 11:55 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Thanks Trevor. But he only installed QT to see if that helped. As I  
> understand it, the videos should have played via WMP to begin with.  
> I forgot to mention that he tried installing on a different Windows  
> machine as well, with the same non-results. Since Rev installs the  
> codec according to platform, I suspected that codecs aren't the  
> problem, but of course, I'd love to be wrong. Or maybe I'm  
> misunderstanding something.
>
> Apparently clicking the Play button in the learning center does  
> nothing. Any other ideas?

Okay, I didn't realize that on Windows it tries to use Windows Media  
Player.  Looking at the code for the online viewer I would check that  
path where Windows Media Player is installed.  The path is hard coded  
in the online viewer:

============
  case "Win32"
     put false into sgSystemPlayer
     if there is a file "C:/Program Files/Windows Media Player/ 
wmplayer.exe" then
       put "C:/Program Files/Windows Media Player/wmplayer.exe  
[[quote]][[sgVideoFilename]][[quote]]" into sgPlayerCommand
     else if there is a file "C:/Program Files/Windows Media Player/ 
mplayer2.exe" then
       put "C:/Program Files/Windows Media Player/mplayer2.exe  
[[quote]][[sgVideoFilename]][[quote]]" into sgPlayerCommand
     end if
     set the visible of control "Play" of me to true
     break
============

I assume that if the Media Player isn't located at "C:/Program Files/ 
Windows Media Player/wmplayer.exe" or "C:/Program Files/Windows Media  
Player/mplayer2.exe" then the launch command further on down would fail.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 21 15:30:06 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:30:06 -0500
Subject: Resizing Boxes
In-Reply-To: <1de.464fa9ad.308a6416@aol.com>
References: <1de.464fa9ad.308a6416@aol.com>
Message-ID: <435941BE.7090601@hyperactivesw.com>

AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 10/21/05 11:22:52 AM, jacque at hyperactivesw.com writes:
> 
> 
> 
>>>I think my problems began when I was in a
>>>field inspector screen. Instead of putting in the left position as a three 
>>
>>digit
>>
>>>number as I wanted to I stupidly typed in a six digit number. After doing
>>>that revolution crashed and it hasn't been the same since.
>>
>>That's good info. If that's really what caused the problem, then it
>>seems like a simple reinstall should fix it, which would cause Rev to
>>revert to its default settings. Did you try that?
>>
> 
> 
> I tried that but it didn't work. I think there's something wrong with my 
> stacks not Revolution. I also tried trashing the Rev preferences. That also didn't 
> fix it. I found two preferences files, Perhaps there are more and I didn't 
> trash the right one.

Preferences aren't stored between installations, so when you reinstalled 
Revolution your preferences would have been replaced. I can't think of a 
way that your own stacks would affect the IDE, so it seems pretty 
unlikely that's it (though nothing is impossible.) Do your stacks 
contain any "resizeStack" handlers? Do you insert any scripts into the 
backscripts? If you open an IDE stack without opening any of your own, 
is the Rev stack the right size?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Oct 21 15:32:58 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:32:58 -0200
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <6D4C68DA-A884-40B1-BAF1-2E287E26F06F@danshafer.com>
References: <BF7E814A.2F662%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
	<6D4C68DA-A884-40B1-BAF1-2E287E26F06F@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <D999C16E-E2E2-4606-8A27-90FA9EF132FE@mac.com>


On Oct 21, 2005, at 4:44 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> It is a fundamental Truth of the Universe (when you reach my  
> advanced stage of life you can even afford to pontificate now and  
> again) that everything takes longer than you think it will even  
> when you take into account that everything takes longer than you  
> think it will.
>

I have told you my theory that if every project takes longer than  
imagined than you just go stacking them like domino tiles and hope  
that when you finish a easy one they will all be solved in chain  
reaction! :-)


jokes apart, I think the best approach to get something done is
1) write a spec, something to guide you, like what problem you're  
trying to solve (thats an important question), how should your app  
behaves.
2) Adopt modular paradigm like model-view-controller, something to  
split GUI from code so that your code will be portable and maintainable.
3) Follow deadlines, even if you don't have one, go and create  
artificial one with punishments like: if I pass 10 of october without  
an alpha version of my new superduper rev game I shall be honor bound  
to drink a cup of orange juice with 3 spoons of salt....
4) Always research, chances are someone created something similar to  
what you're trying to do, see how they did it, learn from others. For  
example, I love outliners and am trying to build a little one for  
personal use in Rev, I just downloaded everything from MORE to  
OmniOutliner and checked... decided I need to learn more.... :-)

at least this is what my workflow looks... and yes, it still takes  
longer than planned.

andre

From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Fri Oct 21 15:36:21 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:36:21 -0400
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <43593F56.8010807@chipp.com>
References: <BF7E814A.2F662%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
	<9252A57A-998A-44C5-A24D-116391DA5E92@conncoll.edu>
	<43593F56.8010807@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <53030AA1-0761-4B0D-BFC6-2962D5D7E72C@conncoll.edu>

No, sorry, I wasn't clear -- my point was the opposite. For almost  
everything I do (except sending email and writing prose) -- music for  
example -- I have to put together bits and pieces of programs,  
whether they're open-source or not. Since a lot of the grunge time  
goes (of course) into getting the programs to work together in either  
case, and since the commercial ones are generally *harder* to  
combine, the attraction of open-source solutions mounts up pretty  
quickly.

But I think I'm off-topic. Sorry.

Charles Hartman

On Oct 21, 2005, at 3:19 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Charles,
>
> Notwithstanding your experience and not sure of Jim's intention, I  
> can attest to doing the 'multiple free program shuffle' many times.  
> For instance to create a VCD from home videos took at least 5 free  
> programs, so I just broke down and bought Nero which worked great.
>
> best,
>
> Chipp
>
> Charles Hartman wrote:
>
>
>> Are you saying this is a difference between open-source and   
>> commercial software? That sure isn't my experience.
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Fri Oct 21 15:43:10 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:43:10 -0400
Subject: Constellation
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968310@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

What is an outliner?

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Andre
Garzia
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 3:33 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Constellation


On Oct 21, 2005, at 4:44 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> It is a fundamental Truth of the Universe (when you reach my  
> advanced stage of life you can even afford to pontificate now and  
> again) that everything takes longer than you think it will even  
> when you take into account that everything takes longer than you  
> think it will.
>

I have told you my theory that if every project takes longer than  
imagined than you just go stacking them like domino tiles and hope  
that when you finish a easy one they will all be solved in chain  
reaction! :-)


jokes apart, I think the best approach to get something done is
1) write a spec, something to guide you, like what problem you're  
trying to solve (thats an important question), how should your app  
behaves.
2) Adopt modular paradigm like model-view-controller, something to  
split GUI from code so that your code will be portable and maintainable.
3) Follow deadlines, even if you don't have one, go and create  
artificial one with punishments like: if I pass 10 of october without  
an alpha version of my new superduper rev game I shall be honor bound  
to drink a cup of orange juice with 3 spoons of salt....
4) Always research, chances are someone created something similar to  
what you're trying to do, see how they did it, learn from others. For  
example, I love outliners and am trying to build a little one for  
personal use in Rev, I just downloaded everything from MORE to  
OmniOutliner and checked... decided I need to learn more.... :-)

at least this is what my workflow looks... and yes, it still takes  
longer than planned.

andre
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 21 15:45:26 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:45:26 -0500
Subject: Command-Period
In-Reply-To: <7f.694bd8f7.308a93b4@aol.com>
References: <7f.694bd8f7.308a93b4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <43594556.8080206@hyperactivesw.com>

AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> It's that newbie pest from Orlando again!

I love newbie pests. I wish we had more of them. The list gets so geeky 
sometimes I think it scares people off.

> In HyperCard I could type 
> command-period to stop a script. If I did it when a dialog box is displayed it stops 
> the script at that point. Is there a keyboard command I can use in revolution to 
> stop a script when a dialog box is displayed. Obviously Command-Period 
> doesn't do it. :(.

Command-period does stop a script in Revolution in most cases -- except 
where a dialog is up. Command-period while a dialog is on screen will 
just cancel the dialog. You have to Command-period before or after the 
dialog to actually stop the script.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 21 16:05:33 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:05:33 -0500
Subject: Learning center videos don't play
In-Reply-To: <B1B44B8C-B9B7-4517-88B3-7EFFFDEF4A31@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <43591262.3080609@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A9166F6A-1A26-491F-BD64-4B69D45A86D7@mangomultimedia.com>
	<43593991.7010304@hyperactivesw.com>
	<B1B44B8C-B9B7-4517-88B3-7EFFFDEF4A31@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <43594A0D.4060508@hyperactivesw.com>

Trevor DeVore wrote:

 > Okay, I didn't realize that on Windows it tries to use Windows Media
 > Player.  Looking at the code for the online viewer I would check that
 > path where Windows Media Player is installed.  The path is hard coded
 > in the online viewer:
 >
 > ============
 >  case "Win32"
 >     put false into sgSystemPlayer
 >     if there is a file "C:/Program Files/Windows Media Player/
 > wmplayer.exe" then
 >       put "C:/Program Files/Windows Media Player/wmplayer.exe
 > [[quote]][[sgVideoFilename]][[quote]]" into sgPlayerCommand
 >     else if there is a file "C:/Program Files/Windows Media Player/
 > mplayer2.exe" then
 >       put "C:/Program Files/Windows Media Player/mplayer2.exe
 > [[quote]][[sgVideoFilename]][[quote]]" into sgPlayerCommand
 >     end if
 >     set the visible of control "Play" of me to true
 >     break
 > ============
 >
 > I assume that if the Media Player isn't located at "C:/Program Files/
 > Windows Media Player/wmplayer.exe" or "C:/Program Files/Windows Media
 > Player/mplayer2.exe" then the launch command further on down would fail.
 >

Good sleuthing. Let's see what he says. If that's the problem, then 
Rev's scripts should probably be revised to account for a missing 
executable.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Oct 21 16:06:04 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:06:04 -0700
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968310@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968310@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <97BD51AF-B382-45C3-851E-3DACAC793B6D@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 21, 2005, at 12:43 PM, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

> What is an outliner?

The greatest thing ever invented :-)  If you are on OS X you can take  
a look at OmniOutliner:
<http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omnioutliner/>


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Oct 21 16:06:43 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:06:43 -0200
Subject: outliners   Re: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968310@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968310@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <CA7813B4-1BBA-457F-9478-4671E7125EA1@mac.com>

Hi There Jonathan,

wikipedia says: An outliner is a special text editor that allows the  
grouping of text in sections that are organized in a tree (hierarchy)  
of concepts, an outline. Outline tools can be used for computer  
programming, collecting or organizing ideas, or project management.

Nowadays, outliners can do more than aggregate text, some add full  
multimedia features. Some cool entrypoints are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliner    (wikipedia is a little weak  
on outliners)

http://www.outliners.com/   (this one used to be a cool resource.)

also check omni group homepage, their outliner is modern and very  
very elegant.

Cheers
andre



On Oct 21, 2005, at 5:43 PM, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

> What is an outliner?



From phefti at club-internet.fr  Fri Oct 21 16:09:57 2005
From: phefti at club-internet.fr (Pascal)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 22:09:57 +0200
Subject: database
Message-ID: <d07732ac4c978046678ebfacd438780f@club-internet.fr>

Hello,

I'm a french newbie who once wrote stacks with HyperCard and Talk.
I think I could try Revolution, but my interest now is in databases (I 
mean relational database without using SQL.) and  I'm looking for, and 
not finding any example of databases build with Revolution. I mean 
something that looks like a FileMaker or a 4D product.
Is ther any example on Revolution web site, or other ?


Thanks

Pascal



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Oct 21 16:18:03 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:18:03 -0700
Subject: Learning center videos don't play
In-Reply-To: <43594A0D.4060508@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <43591262.3080609@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A9166F6A-1A26-491F-BD64-4B69D45A86D7@mangomultimedia.com>
	<43593991.7010304@hyperactivesw.com>
	<B1B44B8C-B9B7-4517-88B3-7EFFFDEF4A31@mangomultimedia.com>
	<43594A0D.4060508@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <64A62C17-EC00-44EF-9CCD-A31E76DB9CF1@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 21, 2005, at 1:05 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
> Good sleuthing. Let's see what he says. If that's the problem, then  
> Rev's scripts should probably be revised to account for a missing  
> executable.

If this is the problem I think it would make sense to change the  
RevOnline code to check the registry for the installed path.  On my  
XP machine this is located at:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\MediaPlayer\Installation Directory

It seems that would be a little safer.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Oct 21 17:12:54 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 22:12:54 +0100
Subject: OT: Looking for a cheap web hosting ISP - Go Dreamhost!
In-Reply-To: <p06230900bf7d7d41cf48@[192.168.1.104]>
References: <BF7CC166.2E3E5%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<p06230900bf7d7d41cf48@[192.168.1.104]>
Message-ID: <435959D6.8020208@tweedly.net>

Stephen Barncard wrote:

> "Go Dreamhost!

Thank you - I did.

Thanks to everyone who replied - I knew some of you guys would have done 
the same research I was doing.

I decided to go with Dreamhost, mostly due to
 - good recommendations (though others also had that)
 - good price (since I'm not moving my existing sites, I needed another 
domain to be registered, so by including that in the price they sneaked 
in below Jaguar in price)
 - separate, different-network status page [this is so obvious, why does 
no-one else do it !!]
 - better support and FAQ pages (e.g. giving version numbers of the 
various packages installed)
 - I liked their bit on Frontpage ("we recommend you don't run this, but 
if you must, we'll let you" :-)


I now have tweedly.org hosted at Dreamhost (but don't even look - 
there's nothing interesting there).

btw - my brother beat me to tweedly.com and tweedly.co.uk - guess there 
are advantages to an unusual surname)


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/143 - Release Date: 19/10/2005



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Oct 21 17:49:43 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:49:43 -0500
Subject: database
In-Reply-To: <d07732ac4c978046678ebfacd438780f@club-internet.fr>
References: <d07732ac4c978046678ebfacd438780f@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <43596277.7000802@chipp.com>

Hi Pascal and welcome to Revolution!

A long time ago, one of the developers of Rev was interested in such an 
animal and thought it could be programmed by combining SQLite with Rev. 
Unfortunately, the project never got off the ground, but our company 
does have a very nice SQLite connector which can do such work.

If you're interested, there's a great (and easy) demo of it at:

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altSQLiteCover/default.htm

Pascal wrote:

> I'm a french newbie who once wrote stacks with HyperCard and Talk.
> I think I could try Revolution, but my interest now is in databases (I 
> mean relational database without using SQL.) and  I'm looking for, and 
> not finding any example of databases build with Revolution. I mean 
> something that looks like a FileMaker or a 4D product.
> Is ther any example on Revolution web site, or other ?



From vokey at uleth.ca  Fri Oct 21 17:55:29 2005
From: vokey at uleth.ca (John Vokey)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:55:29 -0600
Subject: Commercial, open-source, and ``free'' (GPL) software
In-Reply-To: <20051021190442.35F558253B0@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051021190442.35F558253B0@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <D39E8406-0802-4D23-BC30-49AF89F5F015@uleth.ca>

All,
   Just a point of clarification, but open-source and free software  
are quite different concepts, as the people of FSF (the authors of  
the GPL and GNU) have taken great pains to point out (please see FSF  
web-site: <http://www.fsf.org/>), and, in any case, neither is  
necessarily ``free'' in the sense many on this list seem to assume.   
As the adage of the FSF says: ``Free software is a matter of liberty  
not price. You should think of "free" as in "free speech".''

--
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See <http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html>

-Dr. John R. Vokey




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 21 17:57:23 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:57:23 -0500
Subject: Learning center videos don't play
In-Reply-To: <64A62C17-EC00-44EF-9CCD-A31E76DB9CF1@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <43591262.3080609@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A9166F6A-1A26-491F-BD64-4B69D45A86D7@mangomultimedia.com>
	<43593991.7010304@hyperactivesw.com>
	<B1B44B8C-B9B7-4517-88B3-7EFFFDEF4A31@mangomultimedia.com>
	<43594A0D.4060508@hyperactivesw.com>
	<64A62C17-EC00-44EF-9CCD-A31E76DB9CF1@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <43596443.3010402@hyperactivesw.com>

Trevor DeVore wrote:
> On Oct 21, 2005, at 1:05 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> 
>>
>> Good sleuthing. Let's see what he says. If that's the problem, then  
>> Rev's scripts should probably be revised to account for a missing  
>> executable.
> 
> 
> If this is the problem I think it would make sense to change the  
> RevOnline code to check the registry for the installed path.  On my  XP 
> machine this is located at:
> 
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\MediaPlayer\Installation Directory
> 
> It seems that would be a little safer.
> 
> 

I just got a private email saying you were right and have solved the 
problem. Bravo, Trevor, you win today's prize (whatever it is.) :)

I'll Bugzilla this one. The poster was running a copy of XP-German and 
his program folder is named "programme". Thus, no match for the scripted 
file path, and no functional launch of Media Player. When he created a 
folder called "Program Files" and put Media Player into it, the videos 
launched correctly.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Oct 21 18:42:33 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:42:33 -0700
Subject: outliners   Re: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <CA7813B4-1BBA-457F-9478-4671E7125EA1@mac.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968310@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<CA7813B4-1BBA-457F-9478-4671E7125EA1@mac.com>
Message-ID: <488CC623-9ACF-4041-9712-DC175CAACBE1@danshafer.com>

Naw, if you're on OSX and you're interested in outliners on steroids,  
skip past OmniOutliner (which is certainly a good product) anb get  
the best all-around piece of software on OSX for my money, NoteTaker  
from AquaMinds. That is the most elegant and usable and extensible  
software I've seen in many, many years.


On Oct 21, 2005, at 1:06 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Hi There Jonathan,
>
> wikipedia says: An outliner is a special text editor that allows  
> the grouping of text in sections that are organized in a tree  
> (hierarchy) of concepts, an outline. Outline tools can be used for  
> computer programming, collecting or organizing ideas, or project  
> management.
>
> Nowadays, outliners can do more than aggregate text, some add full  
> multimedia features. Some cool entrypoints are:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliner    (wikipedia is a little  
> weak on outliners)
>
> http://www.outliners.com/   (this one used to be a cool resource.)
>
> also check omni group homepage, their outliner is modern and very  
> very elegant.
>
> Cheers
> andre
>
>
>
> On Oct 21, 2005, at 5:43 PM, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:
>
>
>> What is an outliner?
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Oct 21 18:43:37 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:43:37 -0700
Subject: Learning center videos don't play
In-Reply-To: <43594A0D.4060508@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <43591262.3080609@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A9166F6A-1A26-491F-BD64-4B69D45A86D7@mangomultimedia.com>
	<43593991.7010304@hyperactivesw.com>
	<B1B44B8C-B9B7-4517-88B3-7EFFFDEF4A31@mangomultimedia.com>
	<43594A0D.4060508@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <32C3D98C-9F41-43DF-B904-6BA26DC761C6@danshafer.com>

Better yet, they should be coded so they're not looking for a  
required component in a hard-wired place. DUmb.


On Oct 21, 2005, at 1:05 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> If that's the problem, then Rev's scripts should probably be  
> revised to account for a missing executable.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct 21 18:49:48 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:49:48 -0700
Subject: Learning center videos don't play
In-Reply-To: <32C3D98C-9F41-43DF-B904-6BA26DC761C6@danshafer.com>
References: <43591262.3080609@hyperactivesw.com>	<A9166F6A-1A26-491F-BD64-4B69D45A86D7@mangomultimedia.com>	<43593991.7010304@hyperactivesw.com>	<B1B44B8C-B9B7-4517-88B3-7EFFFDEF4A31@mangomultimedia.com>	<43594A0D.4060508@hyperactivesw.com>
	<32C3D98C-9F41-43DF-B904-6BA26DC761C6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <4359708C.9020406@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:
> Better yet, they should be coded so they're not looking for a  required 
> component in a hard-wired place. DUmb.

The whole business with a specialized codec seems awfully complicated. 
I know the codec they're using is cool and all, but it's fairly recent 
and it's not like the world never delivered video over HTTP before it 
came along.

Has RR considered using a codec that's already included with QT, at 
least as an option when the specialized one hasn't been installed (or is 
installed incorrectly, or has any other such problem)?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Fri Oct 21 19:01:11 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Wouter)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 01:01:11 +0200
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968310@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968310@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <1DA16410-D69A-44B1-8CCB-D3BA0F3072A4@scarlet.be>

Hi,
Some interesting articles about outliners can be found at:

http://www.atpm.com/10.12/atpo.shtml
http://www.atpm.com/11.02/atpo.shtml
http://www.atpm.com/11.03/atpo.shtml
http://www.atpm.com/11.04/atpo.shtml
http://www.atpm.com/11.06/atpo.shtml
http://www.atpm.com/11.08/atpo.shtml
http://www.atpm.com/11.10/atpo.shtml
etc...

Greetings,
Wouter

On 21 Oct 2005, at 21:43, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

> What is an outliner?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Andre
> Garzia
> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 3:33 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Constellation
>
>
> On Oct 21, 2005, at 4:44 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>
>> It is a fundamental Truth of the Universe (when you reach my
>> advanced stage of life you can even afford to pontificate now and
>> again) that everything takes longer than you think it will even
>> when you take into account that everything takes longer than you
>> think it will.
>>
>>
>
> I have told you my theory that if every project takes longer than
> imagined than you just go stacking them like domino tiles and hope
> that when you finish a easy one they will all be solved in chain
> reaction! :-)
>
>
> jokes apart, I think the best approach to get something done is
> 1) write a spec, something to guide you, like what problem you're
> trying to solve (thats an important question), how should your app
> behaves.
> 2) Adopt modular paradigm like model-view-controller, something to
> split GUI from code so that your code will be portable and  
> maintainable.
> 3) Follow deadlines, even if you don't have one, go and create
> artificial one with punishments like: if I pass 10 of october without
> an alpha version of my new superduper rev game I shall be honor bound
> to drink a cup of orange juice with 3 spoons of salt....
> 4) Always research, chances are someone created something similar to
> what you're trying to do, see how they did it, learn from others. For
> example, I love outliners and am trying to build a little one for
> personal use in Rev, I just downloaded everything from MORE to
> OmniOutliner and checked... decided I need to learn more.... :-)
>
> at least this is what my workflow looks... and yes, it still takes
> longer than planned.
>
> andre
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From dick.kriesel at mail.com  Fri Oct 21 19:35:41 2005
From: dick.kriesel at mail.com (Dick Kriesel)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:35:41 -0700
Subject: outliners   Re: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <488CC623-9ACF-4041-9712-DC175CAACBE1@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <BF7EC95D.139CD%dick.kriesel@mail.com>

On 10/21/05 3:42 PM, "Dan Shafer" <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:

> Naw, if you're on OSX and you're interested in outliners on steroids,
> skip past OmniOutliner (which is certainly a good product) anb get
> the best all-around piece of software on OSX for my money, NoteTaker
> from AquaMinds. That is the most elegant and usable and extensible
> software I've seen in many, many years.

Looks very interesting, Dan, especially if you can write NoteTaker plug-ins
in Rev.

The AquaMinds site says plug-ins must be Java applets.  Can you make a Rev
app appear to be a Java applet?

-- Dick




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Oct 21 19:52:03 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:52:03 -0700
Subject: OT: Bush in Free Fall
Message-ID: <5427267789.20051021165203@ahsoftware.net>

All-

<completely off topic>
But it's Friday and this is way too much fun...

Here's a great flash animation with physics based on Pekka's rag doll.
Be sure to check out Pekka's site while you're at it (especially the
elephants). Warning: not when you have anything else to do for a
while...

http://www.yeeguy.com/freefall/
</completely>

<obligatory back-on-track content>
 Makes me wonder how I would do something like this in runrev.
</obligatory>

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Oct 21 20:06:33 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:06:33 -0700
Subject: outliners   Re: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <BF7EC95D.139CD%dick.kriesel@mail.com>
References: <BF7EC95D.139CD%dick.kriesel@mail.com>
Message-ID: <41FEFD6B-2499-4B76-93AF-091B552E9F3F@danshafer.com>

Not yet. But the developers and I are meeting next week to discuss  
that very question.

Dan

On Oct 21, 2005, at 4:35 PM, Dick Kriesel wrote:

> The AquaMinds site says plug-ins must be Java applets.  Can you  
> make a Rev
> app appear to be a Java applet?
>



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Fri Oct 21 20:14:54 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 20:14:54 -0400
Subject: outliners   Re: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <41FEFD6B-2499-4B76-93AF-091B552E9F3F@danshafer.com>
References: <BF7EC95D.139CD%dick.kriesel@mail.com>
	<41FEFD6B-2499-4B76-93AF-091B552E9F3F@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <CAC9A97F-3C8F-4D7A-BB56-776D9660DDE2@conncoll.edu>

Now that is interesting news.

Charles Hartman

On Oct 21, 2005, at 8:06 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Not yet. But the developers and I are meeting next week to discuss  
> that very question.
>
> Dan
>
> On Oct 21, 2005, at 4:35 PM, Dick Kriesel wrote:
>
>
>> The AquaMinds site says plug-ins must be Java applets.  Can you  
>> make a Rev
>> app appear to be a Java applet?
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Oct 21 20:17:18 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:17:18 -0700
Subject: Learning center videos don't play
In-Reply-To: <4359708C.9020406@fourthworld.com>
References: <43591262.3080609@hyperactivesw.com>	<A9166F6A-1A26-491F-BD64-4B69D45A86D7@mangomultimedia.com>	<43593991.7010304@hyperactivesw.com>	<B1B44B8C-B9B7-4517-88B3-7EFFFDEF4A31@mangomultimedia.com>	<43594A0D.4060508@hyperactivesw.com>
	<32C3D98C-9F41-43DF-B904-6BA26DC761C6@danshafer.com>
	<4359708C.9020406@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <5B20B57C-1253-4929-8991-6C64F3133305@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 21, 2005, at 3:49 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>> Better yet, they should be coded so they're not looking for a   
>> required component in a hard-wired place. DUmb.
>
> The whole business with a specialized codec seems awfully  
> complicated. I know the codec they're using is cool and all, but  
> it's fairly recent and it's not like the world never delivered  
> video over HTTP before it came along.
>
> Has RR considered using a codec that's already included with QT, at  
> least as an option when the specialized one hasn't been installed  
> (or is installed incorrectly, or has any other such problem)?

Using the specialized component really isn't a big deal in this  
case.  It is trivial to install the component when you launch your  
software.  The problem that was encountered here is that the path to  
Windows Media Player was hard wired.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From jhurley at infostations.com  Fri Oct 21 20:51:36 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:51:36 -0700
Subject: OT: Bush in Free Fall
In-Reply-To: <20051021234855.4C613825408@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051021234855.4C613825408@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p0623090cbf7f3ad06161@[69.85.136.180]>

>
>Message: 18
>Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:52:03 -0700
>From: Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net>
>Subject: OT: Bush in Free Fall
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Message-ID: <5427267789.20051021165203 at ahsoftware.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>All-
>
><completely off topic>
>But it's Friday and this is way too much fun...
>
>Here's a great flash animation with physics based on Pekka's rag doll.
>Be sure to check out Pekka's site while you're at it (especially the
>elephants). Warning: not when you have anything else to do for a
>while...
>
>http://www.yeeguy.com/freefall/
></completely>
>
><obligatory back-on-track content>
>  Makes me wonder how I would do something like this in runrev.
></obligatory>
>
>--
>-Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net


Mark,

That is a masterpiece. A ball falling through a collection of fixed 
balls is doable--not unlike "Nine Ball." But this segmented body is 
something else. There is some complicated physics there.

Couldn't find the elephants.

Jim




From tominjapan at excite.com  Fri Oct 21 21:01:26 2005
From: tominjapan at excite.com (Thomas McCarthy)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:01:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Paypal not responding to rev cgi post
Message-ID: <20051022010126.4CE38BC83@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com>


Scott Rossi wrote:
>Since your students are first going through your system and storing a unique key, your CGI could also generate an HTML download page with that key (or some other unique identifier) as part of the Web address (ie http://www.mydomain.com/download/user72635463.html).

There's no need for a unique web page. The return address I've supplied to paypal points to a cgi and that generates a page based on the variables passed (including the "custom" variable which I use for tracking).

>And since PayPal allows you to specify a "thank you" page URL among the cart parameters it receives, you could include the URL of the download page as the thank you page. So when a transaction is completed, the user will be automatically routed to the download page created by your CGI.

I don't think this is recommended because the payment might not be complete or verified (it could be a cheque). So a "Thank you" cgi generator is better than a static page--you can test whether the payment is completed and generate an appropriate response; 'Thank you, here's your key' or 'Thank you, your key will be emailed to you when your payment clears.'


To sum up: everything is working dandy. It's just that my post to PayPal at the validation point is not returning any value. Thanks anyhow.

tm

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!




From scott at proherp.com  Fri Oct 21 21:38:40 2005
From: scott at proherp.com (Scott Kane)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:38:40 +1000
Subject: database
In-Reply-To: <43596277.7000802@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <000401c5d6a9$55fe1860$0201010a@proherp3t4vojr>


> If you're interested, there's a great (and easy) demo of it at:
> 

I second Chipp's recommendation. I'm working
with AltSQLite presently (nothing of use yet
that I can put up as sample code - maybe soon)
and am finding it fits my needs to a tee.

Scott




From shedrup at ms9.hinet.net  Sat Oct 22 00:18:24 2005
From: shedrup at ms9.hinet.net (Friedrich F. Grohmann)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:18:24 +0800
Subject: "find" fiasco
Message-ID: <200510220420.MAA26598@msr55.hinet.net>

Jacqueline,

     Thank you so much for your kind suggestion. The problem is that even 
with your script the find results (or rather the lack thereof) appear to 
remain the same. That's a pity because it is very convenient to search 
for other instances of text directly selected in a field on the card one 
is looking at.

     Anyway, I found a workaround since, strangely enough, there is a way 
to find Chinese text which seems to work well and reliably. It requires 
an extra field with a returnInField script ("find string the text of me 
in fld ID 1003"). So now I'm putting the selectedText into that field by 
way of a button and it works.

     Same stack, same text, same "find" --yet completely different 
responses and results. Very weird, at least in my eyes.

     Thanks again for your help.

Fritz



>Friedrich F. Grohmann wrote:
>> I have a rather simple stack with text in fields on a number of cards 
>> (Rev 2.6 under Mac OS 10.3.2). The text is in Chinese. 
>> 
>> In order to look for other instances of a term found on the present card 
>> (in fld ID 1003) I'm using a "find selection" button the script of which 
>> is as follows:
>> 
>> on mouseUp
>>   put the selectedText of fld ID 1003 into SelCh
>>   go to cd "Single Line" of stack "Message Box"
>>   put "find" && quote&SelCh&quote into fld "Message Field"/
>>      of cd "Single Line" of stack "Message Box"
>>   select after text of fld "Message Field" of cd "Single Line" of stack 
>> "Message Box"
>> end mouseUp
>> 
>> I'm not sure whether there is anything wrong with this script but the 
>> following things happen:
>> 
>> 1) With some words, the first instance (on the present) card is indicated 
>> by the box and with each further hit of the return key one proceeds to 
>> the next card where the term is found.
>> 
>> 2) In the case of other words, the instance on the present card is not 
>> identified and only one other card is found, although the term actually 
>> occurs on a number of cards.
>> 
>> 3) There are still other words in case of which the response is simply 
>> "not found".
>> 
>> 4) I've run into so far one case where no instance is indicated and I am 
>> told
>> 
>>           Script compile error:
>>           Error: Script: missing "" after literal
>> 
>> 5) There was another word, where no box was drawn at all but all 
>> instances were found. 
>> 
>> This scenario is very bewildering, to say the least. Is there any mistake 
>> in the logic of the script or do I miss some other subtle detail? Any 
>> help highly appreciated.
>> 
>
>It might be a unicode problem, but I'm not sure. What happens if, 
>instead of using the message box, you use a script to find words? Make a 
>button with a script like this:
>
>on mouseUp
>  global gFindText
>  if gFindText = ""
>  then put the selectedText of fld ID 1003 into gFindText
>  find gFindText
>end mouseUp
>
>You should turn off autohiliting for the button so that the selectedtext 
>remains selected when you click.
>
>When you repeatedly click the button, do you get the same results?


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Oct 22 00:25:23 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:25:23 +0200
Subject: Bush in Free Fall
In-Reply-To: <5427267789.20051021165203@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <20051022035332.D1E6F824EF9@mail.runrev.com>

 Mark Said
> All-
> 
> <completely off topic>
> But it's Friday and this is way too much fun...
> 
> Here's a great flash animation with physics based on Pekka's rag doll.
> Be sure to check out Pekka's site while you're at it 
> (especially the elephants). Warning: not when you have 
> anything else to do for a while...
> 
> http://www.yeeguy.com/freefall/
> </completely>

Now that's not just off topic, but funny as well!!!
For added fun, grab W and shake him or wip him on the balls!
 
> <obligatory back-on-track content>
>  Makes me wonder how I would do something like this in runrev.
> </obligatory>

go to 

http://www.bit-101.com/tutorials/

to find what you want (lots more top-site too) ;)

Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Oct 22 00:33:38 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:33:38 +0200
Subject: Command-Period
In-Reply-To: <43594556.8080206@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <20051022040146.436BE825036@mail.runrev.com>


command period doesn't work in windows either ;?
so you use the venerable "DOS" show-stopper "command-c"
Isn't that used for copying elsewhere? (sorry im a geek pest)

what's really missing though is command-shift-period
to jump into hyperCard's debugging mode ;)

having fun yet?
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> J. Landman Gay
> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 9:45 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Command-Period
> 
> AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
> > 
> > It's that newbie pest from Orlando again!
> 
> I love newbie pests. I wish we had more of them. The list 
> gets so geeky sometimes I think it scares people off.
> 
> > In HyperCard I could type
> > command-period to stop a script. If I did it when a dialog box is 
> > displayed it stops the script at that point. Is there a keyboard 
> > command I can use in revolution to stop a script when a 
> dialog box is 
> > displayed. Obviously Command-Period doesn't do it. :(.
> 
> Command-period does stop a script in Revolution in most cases 
> -- except where a dialog is up. Command-period while a dialog 
> is on screen will just cancel the dialog. You have to 
> Command-period before or after the dialog to actually stop the script.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From scott at proherp.com  Sat Oct 22 00:35:00 2005
From: scott at proherp.com (Scott Kane)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:35:00 +1000
Subject: Command-Period
In-Reply-To: <20051022040146.436BE825036@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <000001c5d6c1$faadbf10$0201010a@proherp3t4vojr>


> command period doesn't work in windows either ;?
> so you use the venerable "DOS" show-stopper "command-c"
> Isn't that used for copying elsewhere? (sorry im a geek pest)

That's Control (CTRL) + C

Scott




From katir at hindu.org  Sat Oct 22 00:47:34 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:47:34 -1000
Subject: Best Update Standalone Scenario
Message-ID: <4E8851B0-BD62-49CE-830E-17EF10B36287@hindu.org>

I've searched through the email lists but it's huge and so I'll ask  
an old question (good candidate for an entry in the RevWiki Cookbooks  
section):

What is the best strategy to auto update standalones.

I'm finding some users are happier if every app we deploy is a  
standalone and then there are no issues about where the player is,  
opening the stack etc. especially where these apps have completely  
different job descriptions.

But then, if you want a standalone to update itself what do you do?   
Let me run this by you all for comment.

1) Keep a version number in a custom prop, in the stand alone.
2) have the app ping your server for a small file with the latest  
version number,
3) if they two don't match, then prompt the user to update.
4) on update, the standalone downloads a compressed version of itself  
to the folder that it is in and decompresses that file...
     Question: what is the best way to do this:
a) overwrite the previous standalone with the same name? Will all  
systems allow this if the file is open? I think not....
b) or give the standalone a new name the latter is pretty standard...  
"BBEdit 8.6, BBEdit 8.7"


5) then have the standalone save any open external stacks and quit  
itself.

6) now we leave it up to the user to
     a) reboot the standalone if it has the same name... (but, if  
replacing an open app is not an option, then this is also not an  
option.)
    b) trash the old version and boot the new one.

I would be interested in the overview, the options, the caveats  
etc... and of course cross platform issues (mainly OSX and Windows)  
for "best of show update strategies."

TIA
Sivakatirswami






From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Sat Oct 22 01:48:11 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 22:48:11 -0700
Subject: strange issue
In-Reply-To: <20051021142827.36FB982522F@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051021142827.36FB982522F@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230903bf7f73dccecc@[192.168.1.104]>

I've been 'superstitious' about using identical names for props, vars 
or objects for awhile...

another reason to use labeling conventions I guess...

pParameter
tLocalVariable
gGlobalVariable
cCustomProperty (or kCustomProperty?)


>
>Seriously scared:
>If rev cannot differentiate between <globalname> and <customproperty[] of
>control> there may be many more errors going to be present elsewhere.
>
>Xavier

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Oct 22 01:56:24 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 00:56:24 -0500
Subject: Best Update Standalone Scenario
In-Reply-To: <4E8851B0-BD62-49CE-830E-17EF10B36287@hindu.org>
References: <4E8851B0-BD62-49CE-830E-17EF10B36287@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <4359D488.50906@chipp.com>

Sivakatir,

Check out
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2003-August/021590.html

best,

Chipp

Sivakatirswami wrote:
> I've searched through the email lists but it's huge and so I'll ask  an 
> old question (good candidate for an entry in the RevWiki Cookbooks  
> section):
> 
> What is the best strategy to auto update standalones.


From scott at proherp.com  Sat Oct 22 02:10:26 2005
From: scott at proherp.com (Scott Kane)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:10:26 +1000
Subject: Best Update Standalone Scenario
In-Reply-To: <4E8851B0-BD62-49CE-830E-17EF10B36287@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <000101c5d6cf$4ca6c7a0$0201010a@proherp3t4vojr>


> What is the best strategy to auto update standalones.

I've never done this in Rev, but have in other languages
on Windows.

What I did was to execute a shell command to run a utility
program (the updater) followed by an application close
command (exit, quit).  Then the updater ran, updates the
executable (stand alone) and then executes a shell command
to run the real program (now updated) before automatically
closing itself (exit, quit).

Scott Kane




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Oct 22 02:29:56 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 08:29:56 +0200
Subject: strange issue
In-Reply-To: <p06230903bf7f73dccecc@[192.168.1.104]>
Message-ID: <20051022055806.3D9CA824F92@mail.runrev.com>

the bad thing about superstition is bad luck...

Unlike "normal" programming languages, 
this remains a weakness in Rev's engine...

I find it strategic to be able to use the same names though...

Nonetheless, this works "usually"... although that's not exactly
without some luck behind... ;)

X)
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Stephen Barncard
> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 7:48 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: RE: strange issue
> 
> I've been 'superstitious' about using identical names for 
> props, vars or objects for awhile...
> 
> another reason to use labeling conventions I guess...
> 
> pParameter
> tLocalVariable
> gGlobalVariable
> cCustomProperty (or kCustomProperty?)
> 
> 
> >
> >Seriously scared:
> >If rev cannot differentiate between <globalname> and 
> <customproperty[] 
> >of
> >control> there may be many more errors going to be present elsewhere.
> >
> >Xavier
> 
> --
> stephen barncard
> s a n  f r a n c i s c o
> - - -  - - - - - - - - -
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From sunshine at public.kherson.ua  Sat Oct 22 03:02:59 2005
From: sunshine at public.kherson.ua (Ruslan Zasukhin)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 10:02:59 +0300
Subject: database
In-Reply-To: <43596277.7000802@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <BF7FBED3.406F5%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>

On 10/22/05 12:49 AM, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:

Hey guys.

Pascal asks for NON-SQL database.

Pascal, I believe that exists only one database for Revolution that fit your
needs -- Valentina database.

* Valentina support both: SQL and non-SQL ways to work with database.

* Valentina is 100-1000 times faster of 4D and FileMaker. Yes this is NOT
typo.

* I know 4D very good, we have meet with Laurent (developer of 4D) few years
ago to talk about database development...We was glad to see that our engines
have many similar ideas.

For example, you will find in Valentina ability to work with Sets of
selected records. In the same time you can be sure that Valentina will offer
you even more powerful API that 4D do.

* Valentina support Relational Model, but in fact Valentina provide
    Object-Relational model. You can use features that add you
    - speed and easy in development of db structure.
    - speed in runtime execution

Even more correct: if you aware of old good Navigational model, then
Valentina give you greatly improved Navigational model which we name as
    Object-Relational now.

A lots of things to talk here. :-)
    

> Hi Pascal and welcome to Revolution!
> 
> A long time ago, one of the developers of Rev was interested in such an
> animal and thought it could be programmed by combining SQLite with Rev.
> Unfortunately, the project never got off the ground, but our company
> does have a very nice SQLite connector which can do such work.
> 
> If you're interested, there's a great (and easy) demo of it at:
> 
> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altSQLiteCover/default.htm
> 
> Pascal wrote:
> 
>> I'm a french newbie who once wrote stacks with HyperCard and Talk.
>> I think I could try Revolution, but my interest now is in databases (I
>> mean relational database without using SQL.) and  I'm looking for, and
>> not finding any example of databases build with Revolution. I mean
>> something that looks like a FileMaker or a 4D product.
>> Is ther any example on Revolution web site, or other ?

-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Oct 22 03:20:41 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 09:20:41 +0200
Subject: Best Update Standalone Scenario
In-Reply-To: <4E8851B0-BD62-49CE-830E-17EF10B36287@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <20051022064845.F3A1F824D83@mail.runrev.com>

Hi Sivakatirswami

That's an excellent topic... 

I like the simplicity and safety of many programs I use

- auto-watch web updates - with an option to turn it off
- downloadable improvements, selectable in a list. keep old versions
available - for old client (filter out the inaplicable or installed
objects).

The other simple system, not as practical, was the simple help menu check
with a website visit... download the update. quit the program, run the
update and done...
The good thing about this last one is that I allows lots of safeties like
backups in between... Not that the other types of updates show less but it
may be less apparent and you may not have control over what is done...

Then like Chipp mentioned, there's the stack component. Which is like the
first method I mentioned... But with added "functionality" not just data... 

I don't know if updating scripts on the fly works - certainly not for the
compiled stack but for the "library" stacks, it's certainly or probably
doable. But it's just as easy to replace these libraries. 

The point being that you have to think in advance how you want your updates
to work... Data, GUIs and Code all have options... Don't forget backups can
be important too...

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Sivakatirswami
> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 6:48 AM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Best Update Standalone Scenario
> 
> I've searched through the email lists but it's huge and so 
> I'll ask an old question (good candidate for an entry in the 
> RevWiki Cookbooks
> section):
> 
> What is the best strategy to auto update standalones.
> 
> I'm finding some users are happier if every app we deploy is 
> a standalone and then there are no issues about where the 
> player is, opening the stack etc. especially where these apps 
> have completely different job descriptions.
> 
> But then, if you want a standalone to update itself what do you do?   
> Let me run this by you all for comment.
> 
> 1) Keep a version number in a custom prop, in the stand alone.
> 2) have the app ping your server for a small file with the 
> latest version number,
> 3) if they two don't match, then prompt the user to update.
> 4) on update, the standalone downloads a compressed version 
> of itself to the folder that it is in and decompresses that file...
>      Question: what is the best way to do this:
> a) overwrite the previous standalone with the same name? Will 
> all systems allow this if the file is open? I think not....
> b) or give the standalone a new name the latter is pretty 
> standard...  
> "BBEdit 8.6, BBEdit 8.7"
> 
> 
> 5) then have the standalone save any open external stacks and 
> quit itself.
> 
> 6) now we leave it up to the user to
>      a) reboot the standalone if it has the same name... 
> (but, if replacing an open app is not an option, then this is 
> also not an
> option.)
>     b) trash the old version and boot the new one.
> 
> I would be interested in the overview, the options, the 
> caveats etc... and of course cross platform issues (mainly 
> OSX and Windows) for "best of show update strategies."
> 
> TIA
> Sivakatirswami
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 22 03:57:35 2005
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 00:57:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Phishy Paypal 
In-Reply-To: <8E8F396E-F804-453B-AB3C-F8F689938A5E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20051022075735.75534.qmail@web33015.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


i am getting bogus PayPal email
asking for card info etc.
so nfar just deleting is working
but these guys are always pushing
the envelope.

Erik Hansen


erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Oct 22 04:19:13 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 10:19:13 +0200
Subject: Phishy Paypal 
In-Reply-To: <20051022075735.75534.qmail@web33015.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20051022074717.77394824E17@mail.runrev.com>

I can't tell you how much they do!

And they certainly don?t take their customer's problems seriously either!

X 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Erik Hansen
> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 9:58 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Phishy Paypal 
> 
> 
> i am getting bogus PayPal email
> asking for card info etc.
> so nfar just deleting is working
> but these guys are always pushing
> the envelope.
> 
> Erik Hansen
> 
> 
> erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org
> 
> 
> 		
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Sat Oct 22 07:56:08 2005
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 07:56:08 -0400
Subject: database - valentina
In-Reply-To: <BF7FBED3.406F5%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>
Message-ID: <BF7FA118.112CE%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

I remember when I first looked at Valentina I didn't like it because I was
moving from MySQL and was used to the many utilties that are available for
working with the database and Valentina didn't seem to have one. I am now
using SQLite and the SQLiteManager (and of course the Altuit plug-in).
Because SQLite does not have foreign keys nor the ability (with the manager)
to import and export to XML I am looking at Valentina again.

I notice on your web site that you now have a database manager for Valentina
called Valentina Studio Manager so it all looks fine except that the pricing
structure for a single user is:

$199 for the Valentina/Revolution single user package but it does not come
with Valentina Studio which is another $59 more. So we are looking at over
$250 for a single user.

Then you have Valentina Professional which is also single user but works
with all the operating systems that is supported by Revolution and includes
Valentina Studio for $300

Then the copy of Valentina that everyone would need who makes software is
the developer version and it costs $499.

I was looking for a single user version of Valentina for one operating
system with  the essential manager (Valentina Studio) for like $90 and then
when I am ready to sell my program to someone else or need mult-user then I
fork over more money.

I wish Paradigm would consider an entry level price which includes the
Valentina Studio -- call in the "Valentina Amatuer Database Programmer
Package" or something.


On 10/22/05 3:02 AM, "Ruslan Zasukhin" <sunshine at public.kherson.ua> wrote:

> On 10/22/05 12:49 AM, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:
> 
> Hey guys.
> 
> Pascal asks for NON-SQL database.
> 
> Pascal, I believe that exists only one database for Revolution that fit your
> needs -- Valentina database.
> 
> * Valentina support both: SQL and non-SQL ways to work with database.
> 
> * Valentina is 100-1000 times faster of 4D and FileMaker. Yes this is NOT
> typo.
> 
> * I know 4D very good, we have meet with Laurent (developer of 4D) few years
> ago to talk about database development...We was glad to see that our engines
> have many similar ideas.
> 
> For example, you will find in Valentina ability to work with Sets of
> selected records. In the same time you can be sure that Valentina will offer
> you even more powerful API that 4D do.
> 
> * Valentina support Relational Model, but in fact Valentina provide
>     Object-Relational model. You can use features that add you
>     - speed and easy in development of db structure.
>     - speed in runtime execution
> 
> Even more correct: if you aware of old good Navigational model, then
> Valentina give you greatly improved Navigational model which we name as
>     Object-Relational now.
> 
> A lots of things to talk here. :-)
>     
> 
>> Hi Pascal and welcome to Revolution!
>> 
>> A long time ago, one of the developers of Rev was interested in such an
>> animal and thought it could be programmed by combining SQLite with Rev.
>> Unfortunately, the project never got off the ground, but our company
>> does have a very nice SQLite connector which can do such work.
>> 
>> If you're interested, there's a great (and easy) demo of it at:
>> 
>> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altSQLiteCover/default.htm
>> 
>> Pascal wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm a french newbie who once wrote stacks with HyperCard and Talk.
>>> I think I could try Revolution, but my interest now is in databases (I
>>> mean relational database without using SQL.) and  I'm looking for, and
>>> not finding any example of databases build with Revolution. I mean
>>> something that looks like a FileMaker or a 4D product.
>>> Is ther any example on Revolution web site, or other ?

            |    |    |
           )_)  )_)  )_)
          )___))___))___)\
         )____)____)_____)\\
       _____|____|____|____\\\__
-------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
 ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
       ^^^^      ^^^

24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (787) 809-8426

Blue Water Maritime
P.O. Box 91
Puerto Real, PR 00740





From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sat Oct 22 08:02:47 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 08:02:47 -0400
Subject: Phishy Paypal 
In-Reply-To: <20051022074717.77394824E17@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051022074717.77394824E17@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <2A77479B-4DFA-4F60-A968-0A8A17A2D544@conncoll.edu>


On Oct 22, 2005, at 4:19 AM, MisterX wrote:

> I can't tell you how much they do!
>
> And they certainly don?t take their customer's problems seriously  
> either!
>

If you mean PayPal -- it's pretty clearly not PayPal sending out all  
that PayPal phishing spam.

Charles Hartman



> X
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>> Erik Hansen
>> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 9:58 AM
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: Re: Phishy Paypal
>>
>>
>> i am getting bogus PayPal email
>> asking for card info etc.
>> so nfar just deleting is working
>> but these guys are always pushing
>> the envelope.
>>
>> Erik Hansen
>>
>>
>> erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________
>> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
>> http://farechase.yahoo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
>> your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sat Oct 22 08:28:50 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 08:28:50 -0400
Subject: Phishy Paypal 
In-Reply-To: <2A77479B-4DFA-4F60-A968-0A8A17A2D544@conncoll.edu>
References: <20051022074717.77394824E17@mail.runrev.com>
	<2A77479B-4DFA-4F60-A968-0A8A17A2D544@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <D0B1AD84-55C4-4512-A59B-8CCF9950267F@adelphia.net>

Obviously it is not PayPal doing it BUT someone IS gaining access to  
either PayPal and/or eBay and their mailing lists 'when someone does  
a transaction'. This started for me right after an eBay sale and  
PayPal transaction.

I sent the email on to both and got a response very quickly. The  
emails stopped soon after.


Tom McGrath

On Oct 22, 2005, at 8:02 AM, Charles Hartman wrote:

>
> On Oct 22, 2005, at 4:19 AM, MisterX wrote:
>
>
>> I can't tell you how much they do!
>>
>> And they certainly don?t take their customer's problems seriously  
>> either!
>>
>>
>
> If you mean PayPal -- it's pretty clearly not PayPal sending out  
> all that PayPal phishing spam.
>
> Charles Hartman
>
>
>
>
>> X
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Erik Hansen
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 9:58 AM
>>> To: How to use Revolution
>>> Subject: Re: Phishy Paypal
>>>
>>>
>>> i am getting bogus PayPal email
>>> asking for card info etc.
>>> so nfar just deleting is working
>>> but these guys are always pushing
>>> the envelope.
>>>
>>> Erik Hansen
>>>
>>>
>>> erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________
>>> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
>>> http://farechase.yahoo.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
>>> your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From tominjapan at excite.com  Sat Oct 22 08:48:54 2005
From: tominjapan at excite.com (Thomas McCarthy)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 08:48:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Phishy Paypal
Message-ID: <20051022124854.4D792BBA6@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com>


The Other T.M. wrote:
>Obviously it is not PayPal doing it BUT someone IS gaining access to
either PayPal and/or eBay and their mailing lists 'when someone does
a transaction'. This started for me right after an eBay sale and
PayPal transaction.

I sent the email on to both and got a response very quickly. The
emails stopped soon after.

This T.M.'s experience: Eerily similar. I've been testing my Instant Payment Notification cgi--having it email me when payments are completed, and lo and behold every time I tested it I got a piece of spam right next to my PayPal one. Could be on my side, though...hmmmm.

tm

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!




From robertum at brturbo.com  Sat Oct 22 09:34:21 2005
From: robertum at brturbo.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:34:21 -0200
Subject: How trim?
Message-ID: <435A3FDD.5020403@brturbo.com>

Sometimes inexperienced Rev programmers have to ask questions that make 
them want to crawl under the table in shame because probably the answer 
is idiotically simple. Here is such a question.

If I have a string, say:-

"   The cat sat under the mat   "

- and I want to trim off the leading and following blanks to give:-

"The cat sat on the mat"

- how can I do this quickly in Transcript?

In Basic, it is very simple. You can use the functions LTrim$, RTrim$ or 
just Trim$ to lop off both sets of blanks.

Thanks very much in advance to the individual who will surely give me 
the answer in a flash.


From marcus at runrev.com  Sat Oct 22 09:48:11 2005
From: marcus at runrev.com (Marcus van Houdt)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:48:11 +0100
Subject: How trim?
In-Reply-To: <435A3FDD.5020403@brturbo.com>
References: <435A3FDD.5020403@brturbo.com>
Message-ID: <7C647C01-4302-11DA-BA24-0003936DB936@runrev.com>

Hello,

With revolution this is even easier than Basic, all you need to do is:

put word 1 to -1 of "        The cat sat under the mat.         "

This will put "The cat sat under the mat." into message.

Regards,

Marcus

Software Developer
Runtime Revolution


> Sometimes inexperienced Rev programmers have to ask questions that 
> make them want to crawl under the table in shame because probably the 
> answer is idiotically simple. Here is such a question.
>
> If I have a string, say:-
>
> "   The cat sat under the mat   "
>
> - and I want to trim off the leading and following blanks to give:-
>
> "The cat sat on the mat"
>
> - how can I do this quickly in Transcript?
>
> In Basic, it is very simple. You can use the functions LTrim$, RTrim$ 
> or just Trim$ to lop off both sets of blanks.
>
> Thanks very much in advance to the individual who will surely give me 
> the answer in a flash.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From robertum at brturbo.com  Sat Oct 22 09:48:16 2005
From: robertum at brturbo.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:48:16 -0200
Subject: How trim? P.S.
Message-ID: <435A4320.1030701@brturbo.com>

Sorry, the 2 strings mentioned in the previous e-mail should have read:

"   The cat sat on the mat   "
"The cat sat on the mat"

I was thinking about crawling UNDER the table!

Bob

[P.S. If anybody wants to send me e-mails directly, it can still be done 
via warren at howsoft.com (corresponding to the name of my site).
I had to change to robertum at brtubo.com for the Use-Revolution lists as 
the Rev server cannot deliver them to me reliably after its "upgrade" 
last July.]


From robertum at brturbo.com  Sat Oct 22 09:58:13 2005
From: robertum at brturbo.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:58:13 -0200
Subject: How trim? P.P.S.
Message-ID: <435A4575.9010508@brturbo.com>

robertum at brturbo.com  !!!!!!!!!

I need a good night's sleep....


From alex at tweedly.net  Sat Oct 22 10:02:24 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 15:02:24 +0100
Subject: How trim?
In-Reply-To: <435A3FDD.5020403@brturbo.com>
References: <435A3FDD.5020403@brturbo.com>
Message-ID: <435A4670.1080407@tweedly.net>

Bob Warren wrote:

> Sometimes inexperienced Rev programmers have to ask questions that 
> make them want to crawl under the table in shame because probably the 
> answer is idiotically simple. Here is such a question.
>
> If I have a string, say:-
>
> "   The cat sat under the mat   "
>
> - and I want to trim off the leading and following blanks to give:-
>
> "The cat sat on the mat"
>
put word 1 to -1 of myVar into mySecondVar

Trimming only one end is slightly harder - in fact, the best way I can 
think of is surprisingly complex
put char 1 to -2 of (word 1 to -1 of (t & "="))      -- could have been 
any non-space character
put char 2 to -1 of (word 1 to -1 of ("=" & t))      -- could have been 
any non-space character


Hopefully someone else will come up with an easier way, and I will slap 
my head in annoyance :-)

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/143 - Release Date: 19/10/2005



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Oct 22 10:07:46 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:07:46 +0200
Subject: How trim?
In-Reply-To: <7C647C01-4302-11DA-BA24-0003936DB936@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20051022133547.22FF082505A@mail.runrev.com>

Marcus,

here's a new list of scripts from MonsieurX.com/taoo

http://www.monsieurx.com/tiki/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=5

They do stripping of bad text in text... choose which you need and just 

put striplineendindspace(text) into text...

quite handy ofr lists, text, field entries, etc...

now, im sure there's more grep scripts for that but these work no matter
what the size of data entered compared to grep which can crash after a
certain
overload. Secondly, they also offer a speed advantage I believe (not
tested).
Lastly they were more compatible to port elsewhere...

cheers
Xavier


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Marcus van Houdt
> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 3:48 PM
> To: robertum at brturbo.com; How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: How trim?
> 
> Hello,
> 
> With revolution this is even easier than Basic, all you need to do is:
> 
> put word 1 to -1 of "        The cat sat under the mat.         "
> 
> This will put "The cat sat under the mat." into message.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Marcus
> 
> Software Developer
> Runtime Revolution
> 
> 
> > Sometimes inexperienced Rev programmers have to ask questions that 
> > make them want to crawl under the table in shame because 
> probably the 
> > answer is idiotically simple. Here is such a question.
> >
> > If I have a string, say:-
> >
> > "   The cat sat under the mat   "
> >
> > - and I want to trim off the leading and following blanks to give:-
> >
> > "The cat sat on the mat"
> >
> > - how can I do this quickly in Transcript?
> >
> > In Basic, it is very simple. You can use the functions 
> LTrim$, RTrim$ 
> > or just Trim$ to lop off both sets of blanks.
> >
> > Thanks very much in advance to the individual who will 
> surely give me 
> > the answer in a flash.
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Oct 22 10:38:10 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 07:38:10 -0700
Subject: database
In-Reply-To: <d07732ac4c978046678ebfacd438780f@club-internet.fr>
References: <d07732ac4c978046678ebfacd438780f@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20051022072447.01e30cc0@pop3.pon.net>

Hi Pascal,

>my interest now is in databases (I mean relational database without using 
>SQL.) and  I'm looking for, and not finding any example of databases build 
>with Revolution. I mean something that looks like a FileMaker or a 4D product.
>Is ther any example on Revolution web site, or other ?

I have scripted a hierarchical, binary-tree database in Transcript which is 
open-source and royalty-free.  Relational indexes are NOT built in, but 
must be created and maintained individually.

Serendipity Database--Binary (SDB) is available for download at 
<http://wecode.org/serendipity/>.  The download includes client and server 
software for multiuser operation, stacks for automated testing & examples, 
and reference stacks...along with Serendipity Library.  Also included are 
RAD tools for adding SDB support to existing Rev stacks and creating 
database data dictionary record descriptions from existing stacks.

SDB offers:

         * A native Transcript database engine running on all platforms 
supported by Revolution with NO modification

         * Standalone and client/server operation with the same front end 
(the later including automatic & specific record locking)

         * Multi-lingual and user-translatable capabilities (shipping with 
support for Dutch, English, French, German & Spanish)

Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
  Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

  from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)  



From robertum at brturbo.com  Sat Oct 22 11:04:57 2005
From: robertum at brturbo.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 13:04:57 -0200
Subject: How trim?
Message-ID: <435A5519.5080302@brturbo.com>

Thanks a lot, Marcus.
The double trim is easy as you say, but I would never have guessed it.
However, by what I see from Alex Tweedly's first ideas about left and 
right trims, these may not be so trivial. Any ideas about simple 
solutions for these cases?

Alex:

I couldn't seem to make your first suggestions for L and R trims work. 
Would you mind spelling out some example routines for me?

Best,
Bob

------------------------------------------------
 >Hello,

 >With revolution this is even easier than Basic, all you need to do is:

 >put word 1 to -1 of "        The cat sat under the mat.         "

 >This will put "The cat sat under the mat." into message.

 >Regards,

 >Marcus

 >Software Developer
 >Runtime Revolution


From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Sat Oct 22 12:00:47 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:00:47 +0200
Subject: AW: How trim?
In-Reply-To: <435A5519.5080302@brturbo.com>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCOEEKDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hi Bob,

this is a classical application of regular expressions. Try

get replaceText("        The cat sat under the mat.         ","^ *","")

The "^" tells the search engine to start at the beginning.
The "*" looks for as many of the previous characters (here space) as possible.

To get rid of them at the end use

get replaceText("        The cat sat under the mat.         "," *$","")

The "$" tells the search engine to look at the end.

All the best
Thomas


--
Thomas Fischer
Salzburg 

> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]Im Auftrag von Bob
> Warren
> Gesendet: Samstag, 22. Oktober 2005 17:05
> An: Marcus van Houdt; use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Betreff: Re: How trim?
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot, Marcus.
> The double trim is easy as you say, but I would never have guessed it.
> However, by what I see from Alex Tweedly's first ideas about left and 
> right trims, these may not be so trivial. Any ideas about simple 
> solutions for these cases?
> 
> Alex:
> 
> I couldn't seem to make your first suggestions for L and R trims work. 
> Would you mind spelling out some example routines for me?
> 
> Best,
> Bob
> 
> ------------------------------------------------
>  >Hello,
> 
>  >With revolution this is even easier than Basic, all you need to do is:
> 
>  >put word 1 to -1 of "        The cat sat under the mat.         "
> 
>  >This will put "The cat sat under the mat." into message.
> 
>  >Regards,
> 
>  >Marcus
> 
>  >Software Developer
>  >Runtime Revolution
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Oct 22 12:43:26 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 09:43:26 -0700
Subject: OT: Bush in Free Fall
In-Reply-To: <p0623090cbf7f3ad06161@[69\.85\.136\.180]>
References: <20051021234855.4C613825408@mail.runrev.com>
	<p0623090cbf7f3ad06161@[69.85.136.180]>
Message-ID: <37810325.20051022094326@ahsoftware.net>

Jim-

Friday, October 21, 2005, 5:51:36 PM, you wrote:

> Couldn't find the elephants.

http://www.pekkasandborg.com/portfolio/?id=4

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From sunshine at public.kherson.ua  Sat Oct 22 12:43:46 2005
From: sunshine at public.kherson.ua (Ruslan Zasukhin)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:43:46 +0300
Subject: database - valentina
In-Reply-To: <BF7FA118.112CE%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <BF8046F2.40745%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>

On 10/22/05 2:56 PM, "Bill" <bill at bluewatermaritime.com> wrote:

Hi Bill,

> I remember when I first looked at Valentina I didn't like it because I was
> moving from MySQL and was used to the many utilties that are available for
> working with the database and Valentina didn't seem to have one. I am now
> using SQLite and the SQLiteManager (and of course the Altuit plug-in).

> Because SQLite does not have foreign keys nor the ability (with the manager)
> to import and export to XML I am looking at Valentina again.
 
> I notice on your web site that you now have a database manager for Valentina
> called Valentina Studio Manager so it all looks fine except that the pricing
> structure for a single user is:

> $199 for the Valentina/Revolution single user package but it does not come
> with Valentina Studio which is another $59 more. So we are looking at over
> $250 for a single user.

right
 
> Then you have Valentina Professional which is also single user but works
> with all the operating systems that is supported by Revolution and includes
> Valentina Studio for $300

right
 
> Then the copy of Valentina that everyone would need who makes software is
> the developer version and it costs $499.

Wrong. You have something miss read.
 
In fact "Valentina for Revolution Pro" bundle includes
    - ADK for Revolution to develop on all platforms
    - Valentina Studio for single platform.

So you do not need purchase Valentina Studio separately with this bundle.

---------------------------
> I was looking for a single user version of Valentina for one operating
> system with  the essential manager (Valentina Studio) for like $90 and then
> when I am ready to sell my program to someone else or need mult-user then I
> fork over more money.
 
> I wish Paradigm would consider an entry level price which includes the
> Valentina Studio -- call in the "Valentina Amatuer Database Programmer
> Package" or something.

in fact you can enter into Valentina development for ZERO.
    our demo allow YOUR application work 10 minutes.
    this is usually more than enough to test some feature during debugging
      
Many developers do exactly this. And when your app ready or almost ready you
can get license.

Valentina Server in demo mode works 24 hours non-stop, so you again can
develop all you need.

Is this okay ?


-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering andtor New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Oct 22 12:48:43 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 09:48:43 -0700
Subject: OT: Bush in Free Fall
In-Reply-To: <p0623090cbf7f3ad06161@[69\.85\.136\.180]>
References: <20051021234855.4C613825408@mail.runrev.com>
	<p0623090cbf7f3ad06161@[69.85.136.180]>
Message-ID: <1121127080.20051022094843@ahsoftware.net>

Jim-

Friday, October 21, 2005, 5:51:36 PM, you wrote:

> something else. There is some complicated physics there.

Here's a paper on the free-fall physics behind the animation, although
it's still beyond me at the moment, although using Verlet integration
for molecular dynamics does sound appealing:

http://www.gpgstudy.com/gpgiki/GDC%202001%3A%20Advanced%20Character%20Physics

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Oct 22 13:22:29 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 10:22:29 -0700
Subject: Phishy Paypal
In-Reply-To: <D0B1AD84-55C4-4512-A59B-8CCF9950267F@adelphia.net>
References: <20051022074717.77394824E17@mail.runrev.com>
	<2A77479B-4DFA-4F60-A968-0A8A17A2D544@conncoll.edu>
	<D0B1AD84-55C4-4512-A59B-8CCF9950267F@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <1683153043.20051022102229@ahsoftware.net>

Thomas-

Saturday, October 22, 2005, 5:28:50 AM, you wrote:

> Obviously it is not PayPal doing it BUT someone IS gaining access to
> either PayPal and/or eBay and their mailing lists 'when someone does
> a transaction'. This started for me right after an eBay sale and  
> PayPal transaction.

Well, eBay does own PayPal, so...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mdswindell at charter.net  Sat Oct 22 13:22:09 2005
From: mdswindell at charter.net (Mark Swindell)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 10:22:09 -0700
Subject: OT: Bush in Free Fall
In-Reply-To: <5427267789.20051021165203@ahsoftware.net>
References: <5427267789.20051021165203@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <2FE8E91D-C298-4075-BD14-61561C2AD923@charter.net>

That is amazing.

Mark

On Oct 21, 2005, at 4:52 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> All-
>
> <completely off topic>
> But it's Friday and this is way too much fun...
>
> Here's a great flash animation with physics based on Pekka's rag doll.
> Be sure to check out Pekka's site while you're at it (especially the
> elephants). Warning: not when you have anything else to do for a
> while...
>
> http://www.yeeguy.com/freefall/
> </completely>
>
> <obligatory back-on-track content>
>  Makes me wonder how I would do something like this in runrev.
> </obligatory>


From macstacks at earthlink.net  Sat Oct 22 13:22:36 2005
From: macstacks at earthlink.net (Bruce A. Pokras)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 13:22:36 -0400
Subject: Phishy Paypal
In-Reply-To: <D0B1AD84-55C4-4512-A59B-8CCF9950267F@adelphia.net>
References: <20051022074717.77394824E17@mail.runrev.com>
	<2A77479B-4DFA-4F60-A968-0A8A17A2D544@conncoll.edu>
	<D0B1AD84-55C4-4512-A59B-8CCF9950267F@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <a06110400bf8024d8fb06@[10.0.1.42]>

>Obviously it is not PayPal doing it BUT someone IS gaining access to 
>either PayPal and/or eBay and their mailing lists 'when someone does 
>a transaction'. This started for me right after an eBay sale and 
>PayPal transaction.
>
>I sent the email on to both and got a response very quickly. The 
>emails stopped soon after.
>
>Tom McGrath
>

The phishers do not necessarily have PayPal mailing lists. I have 
neither a PayPal nor eBay account, and I get plenty of phishing spams 
for both companies. So the phishers are just using regular spam lists 
and hoping to hit PayPal and eBay customers.

Bruce Pokras
Blazing Dawn Software
www.blazingdawn.com


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Oct 22 13:32:59 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 10:32:59 -0700
Subject: Best Update Standalone Scenario
In-Reply-To: <4359D488.50906@chipp.com>
References: <4E8851B0-BD62-49CE-830E-17EF10B36287@hindu.org>
	<4359D488.50906@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <583782969.20051022103259@ahsoftware.net>

Chipp-

Friday, October 21, 2005, 10:56:24 PM, you wrote:

> Check out
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2003-August/021590.html

The only things I would add to Chipp's excellent writeup are:

I have an aversion to apps that "phone home" on their own at startup,
so I leave this as an option for the users to check for updated
versions on their own. There are obviously cases, though, where you do
want the automatic checks to occur at startup.

And the "splash screen" approach to segmenting your program also has a
couple of advantages that Chipp didn't metion: a) since the process of
creating a standalone binds the engine to the mainstack, this then
gets attached to the splash screen, making updates much smaller and
faster downloads; and b) the user perception of the smaller download
is that you're not really giving them a whole new application (you may
be), but that it's a minor update, making them feel better about
updating the app.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Oct 22 13:36:26 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 10:36:26 -0700
Subject: strange issue
In-Reply-To: <p06230903bf7f73dccecc@[192\.168\.1\.104]>
References: <20051021142827.36FB982522F@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230903bf7f73dccecc@[192.168.1.104]>
Message-ID: <573989987.20051022103626@ahsoftware.net>

Stephen-

Friday, October 21, 2005, 10:48:11 PM, you wrote:

> another reason to use labeling conventions I guess...

> pParameter
> tLocalVariable
> gGlobalVariable
> cCustomProperty (or kCustomProperty?)

I've come around to the convention of using "uCustomProperty" for my
own custom properties.

and "kConstant" (never got out of that habit)...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Oct 22 13:49:08 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 10:49:08 -0700
Subject: Phishy Paypal
In-Reply-To: <a06110400bf8024d8fb06@[10.0.1.42]>
References: <20051022074717.77394824E17@mail.runrev.com>	<2A77479B-4DFA-4F60-A968-0A8A17A2D544@conncoll.edu>	<D0B1AD84-55C4-4512-A59B-8CCF9950267F@adelphia.net>
	<a06110400bf8024d8fb06@[10.0.1.42]>
Message-ID: <435A7B94.6030500@fourthworld.com>

Bruce A. Pokras wrote:
> The phishers do not necessarily have PayPal mailing lists. I have 
> neither a PayPal nor eBay account, and I get plenty of phishing spams 
> for both companies. So the phishers are just using regular spam lists 
> and hoping to hit PayPal and eBay customers.

Sounds reasonable.  Why would PayPal phish its own customers?  Weird 
idea....

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Oct 22 13:53:36 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 10:53:36 -0700
Subject: strange issue
In-Reply-To: <573989987.20051022103626@ahsoftware.net>
References: <20051021142827.36FB982522F@mail.runrev.com>	<p06230903bf7f73dccecc@[192.168.1.104]>
	<573989987.20051022103626@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <435A7CA0.4040707@fourthworld.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:
>>pParameter
>>tLocalVariable
>>gGlobalVariable
>>cCustomProperty (or kCustomProperty?)
>
> I've come around to the convention of using "uCustomProperty" for my
> own custom properties.
> 
> and "kConstant" (never got out of that habit)...

Me too. "c" is commonly used to denote classes in OOP languages, and 
plans for OOP extensions to Transcript have been part of the plan for 
some time now.  So in my shop we're reserving the "c" prefix for those 
extensions, and use "u" (for "user-defined property") instead.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From jhurley at infostations.com  Sat Oct 22 14:13:54 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:13:54 -0700
Subject: OT: Bush in Free Fall
In-Reply-To: <20051022170003.264D9825090@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051022170003.264D9825090@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230912bf802cc58a49@[69.85.136.180]>

>
>Message: 13
>Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 09:48:43 -0700
>From: Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net>
>Subject: Re: OT: Bush in Free Fall
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Message-ID: <1121127080.20051022094843 at ahsoftware.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>Jim-
>
>Friday, October 21, 2005, 5:51:36 PM, you wrote:
>
>>  something else. There is some complicated physics there.
>
>Here's a paper on the free-fall physics behind the animation, although
>it's still beyond me at the moment, although using Verlet integration
>for molecular dynamics does sound appealing:
>
>http://www.gpgstudy.com/gpgiki/GDC%202001%3A%20Advanced%20Character%20Physics
>
>--
>-Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>

Mark,

I didn't look at the link carefully (actually I scrolled rapidly to 
the bottom of the window) but it may not deal with the specific 
problem faced by the falling Bush, not to be confused with the 
burning bush.

That animated character is physically  equivalent, I think, to a 
series of linked rigid rods. So imagine a set of linked rods and an 
impulse is applied to one of them--when it strikes a ball. You know 
the impulse (technically  the integral of the force over time) is 
normal in direction to the surface of the ball at the point of impact 
(and normal to the rod segment as well) and is of such  a value  that 
it brings the point of impact momentarily to rest--the rod 
momentarily rotates about the point of impact. From this one must 
work out how that impulse affects not just that rod but all linked 
rods. It is a nightmare physics problem. Even the manner in which the 
model slithers over the balls is a work or art and physics.

A  simpler problem would be a single falling rod with an angular 
velocity omega and striking a fixed peg. Determine the subsequent 
motion. Not a simple problem. But imaging a series of linked rods?

Someone has a lot of time on his or her hands.

But, thanks for bringing it up. Shows what a dedicated mind can accomplish.

Jim




From mark at maseurope.net  Sat Oct 22 14:22:11 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:22:11 +0100
Subject: How trim?
In-Reply-To: <435A5519.5080302@brturbo.com>
References: <435A5519.5080302@brturbo.com>
Message-ID: <C04C7526-36DF-4738-A21A-EE07870E48FE@maseurope.net>

I got these:

to strip leading spaces

function trimL aString
    return char offset(word 1 of aString, aString) to -1 of aString
end trimL

to strip trailing spaces

function trimR aString
   return  char 1 to  length(word 1 to -1 of aString) + (offset(word  
1 of aString, aString) - 1) of aString
end trimR

surprisingly ugly for transcript....


Mark





On 22 Oct 2005, at 16:04, Bob Warren wrote:

> Thanks a lot, Marcus.
> The double trim is easy as you say, but I would never have guessed it.
> However, by what I see from Alex Tweedly's first ideas about left  
> and right trims, these may not be so trivial. Any ideas about  
> simple solutions for these cases?
>
> Alex:
>
> I couldn't seem to make your first suggestions for L and R trims  
> work. Would you mind spelling out some example routines for me?
>
> Best,
> Bob
>
> ------------------------------------------------
> >Hello,
>
> >With revolution this is even easier than Basic, all you need to do  
> is:
>
> >put word 1 to -1 of "        The cat sat under the mat.         "
>
> >This will put "The cat sat under the mat." into message.
>
> >Regards,
>
> >Marcus
>
> >Software Developer
> >Runtime Revolution
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Sat Oct 22 14:46:59 2005
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:46:59 +0200
Subject: Phishy Paypal
References: <20051022074717.77394824E17@mail.runrev.com>
	<2A77479B-4DFA-4F60-A968-0A8A17A2D544@conncoll.edu>
	<D0B1AD84-55C4-4512-A59B-8CCF9950267F@adelphia.net>
	<a06110400bf8024d8fb06@[10.0.1.42]>
Message-ID: <435A8921.8F16E0C3@Club-Internet.fr>


true.
if you check carefully that kind of phishy emails, you'll notice that
very often it sends data back to a server located in Romania...

JB

>
> The phishers do not necessarily have PayPal mailing lists. I have
> neither a PayPal nor eBay account, and I get plenty of phishing spams
> for both companies. So the phishers are just using regular spam lists
> and hoping to hit PayPal and eBay customers.
>



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sat Oct 22 14:46:19 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:46:19 -0400
Subject: Phishy Paypal
In-Reply-To: <435A7B94.6030500@fourthworld.com>
References: <20051022074717.77394824E17@mail.runrev.com>	<2A77479B-4DFA-4F60-A968-0A8A17A2D544@conncoll.edu>	<D0B1AD84-55C4-4512-A59B-8CCF9950267F@adelphia.net>
	<a06110400bf8024d8fb06@[10.0.1.42]>
	<435A7B94.6030500@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <8F7BD095-031A-4405-B707-D2734ACA3549@conncoll.edu>


On Oct 22, 2005, at 1:49 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Sounds reasonable.  Why would PayPal phish its own customers?   
> Weird idea....

-- or an ultimate perfection of capitalism?

Charles Hartman



From mcdomi at free.fr  Sat Oct 22 14:55:28 2005
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:55:28 +0200
Subject: OT: Bush in Free Fall
In-Reply-To: <2FE8E91D-C298-4075-BD14-61561C2AD923@charter.net>
Message-ID: <1h4uply.yxuxtmxfwvy1M%mcdomi@free.fr>

Mark Swindell <mdswindell at charter.net> wrote:

> That is amazing.

awesome :-)

in order to be in chart: no means to make something approaching this?
arcade engine, for instance (not so much studied it, I must confess...)

-- 
Revolutionario



From katir at hindu.org  Sat Oct 22 15:44:33 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 09:44:33 -1000
Subject: Best Update Standalone Scenario
In-Reply-To: <583782969.20051022103259@ahsoftware.net>
References: <4E8851B0-BD62-49CE-830E-17EF10B36287@hindu.org>
	<4359D488.50906@chipp.com>
	<583782969.20051022103259@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <2F09C6AB-4B70-48DF-867F-C27F5B46C8C8@hindu.org>

Aloha, Chipp and Mark:

Excellent, thanks... I have copied Chipps scenario to my own  
knowledge base.

Two questions:

1)  How do you handle the Splash Screen-Engine-Player after the  
MainStack is opened... set it to invisible? Just let it sit in the  
background behind everything? I would guess the former, which is more  
normal UI behavior (I mean there is no Splash screen present in the  
visible GUI once the user opens an MS word document, or any Adobe  
document either...)

2) Marie Signe recently said the special folder path to /Application  
Data/ on Windows was (26)... this email say (35) ....

Looking at the MSDN site we see:

CSIDL_APPDATA (0x001a)
     Version 4.71. The file system directory that serves as a common  
repository for application-specific data. A typical path is C: 
\Documents and Settings\username\Application Data. This CSIDL is  
supported by the redistributable Shfolder.dll for systems that do not  
have the Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 integrated Shell installed.

= specialFolderPath(26)

CSIDL_CDBURN_AREA (0x003b)
     Version 6.0. The file system directory acting as a staging area  
for files waiting to be written to CD. A typical path is C:\Documents  
and Settings\username\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\CD  
Burning.

= specialFolderPath(59)

CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA (0x0023)
     Version 5.0. The file system directory containing application  
data for all users. A typical path is C:\Documents and Settings\All  
Users\Application Data.

= specialFolderPath(35)

Aside query about Windows systems... why are two different ones for

C:\Documents and Settings\username\Application Data
and
C:\Documents and Settings\username\Local Settings\Application Data\)

??
What should we use and why?

Sivakatirswami






theOn Oct 22, 2005, at 7:32 AM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Chipp-
>
> Friday, October 21, 2005, 10:56:24 PM, you wrote:
>
>
>> Check out
>> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2003-August/ 
>> 021590.html
>>
>
> The only things I would add to Chipp's excellent writeup are:
>
> I have an aversion to apps that "phone home" on their own at startup,
> so I leave this as an option for the users to check for updated
> versions on their own. There are obviously cases, though, where you do
> want the automatic checks to occur at startup.
>
> And the "splash screen" approach to segmenting your program also has a
> couple of advantages that Chipp didn't metion: a) since the process of
> creating a standalone binds the engine to the mainstack, this then
> gets attached to the splash screen, making updates much smaller and
> faster downloads; and b) the user perception of the smaller download
> is that you're not really giving them a whole new application (you may
> be), but that it's a minor update, making them feel better about
> updating the app.
>
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From robertum at brturbo.com  Sat Oct 22 16:41:59 2005
From: robertum at brturbo.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:41:59 -0200
Subject: How trim?
Message-ID: <435AA417.2010101@brturbo.com>

Well, I am relieved to say it wasn't such a dumb question after all. 
Thanks chaps! And thanks particularly to Thomas Fischer who has come up 
with the most elegant solution. QED. Now I need to go off and study 
regular expressions.....

Bob
------------------------------------------
 >This is a classical application of regular expressions. Try

 >get replaceText("        The cat sat on the mat.         ","^ *","")

 >The "^" tells the search engine to start at the beginning.
 >The "*" looks for as many of the previous characters (here space) as 
 >possible.

 >To get rid of them at the end use

 >get replaceText("        The cat sat on the mat.         "," *$","")

 >The "$" tells the search engine to look at the end.



From see3d at writeme.com  Sat Oct 22 16:45:03 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:45:03 -0400
Subject: Phishy Paypal
In-Reply-To: <a06110400bf8024d8fb06@[10.0.1.42]>
References: <20051022074717.77394824E17@mail.runrev.com>
	<2A77479B-4DFA-4F60-A968-0A8A17A2D544@conncoll.edu>
	<D0B1AD84-55C4-4512-A59B-8CCF9950267F@adelphia.net>
	<a06110400bf8024d8fb06@[10.0.1.42]>
Message-ID: <7F435314-18D9-430E-BF33-7BA37084F53A@writeme.com>

I just used my Paypal for a transaction yesterday after a long period  
of not using it.  Today I have been Phished twice by phony Paypal  
emails and sites!

Dennis

On Oct 22, 2005, at 1:22 PM, Bruce A. Pokras wrote:

>> Obviously it is not PayPal doing it BUT someone IS gaining access  
>> to either PayPal and/or eBay and their mailing lists 'when someone  
>> does a transaction'. This started for me right after an eBay sale  
>> and PayPal transaction.
>>
>> I sent the email on to both and got a response very quickly. The  
>> emails stopped soon after.
>>
>> Tom McGrath
>>
>>
>
> The phishers do not necessarily have PayPal mailing lists. I have  
> neither a PayPal nor eBay account, and I get plenty of phishing  
> spams for both companies. So the phishers are just using regular  
> spam lists and hoping to hit PayPal and eBay customers.
>
> Bruce Pokras
> Blazing Dawn Software
> www.blazingdawn.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Sat Oct 22 17:17:34 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Buster)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 23:17:34 +0200
Subject: How trim?
In-Reply-To: <435AA417.2010101@brturbo.com>
References: <435AA417.2010101@brturbo.com>
Message-ID: <7C6F7310-983B-4F75-83A8-731618939D25@scarlet.be>

Hi,

It is indeed elegant, but a condition check is necessary here as it  
will remove the first word + the space(s) if there is no space at the  
start of the line.

> "        The cat sat on the mat.         "

will become

  " The cat sat on the mat.         "

But if no space in front the result is

"cat sat on the mat.         "


Greetings,
Wouter


On 22 Oct 2005, at 22:41, Bob Warren wrote:

> Well, I am relieved to say it wasn't such a dumb question after  
> all. Thanks chaps! And thanks particularly to Thomas Fischer who  
> has come up with the most elegant solution. QED. Now I need to go  
> off and study regular expressions.....
>
> Bob
> ------------------------------------------
> >This is a classical application of regular expressions. Try
>
> >get replaceText("        The cat sat on the mat.         ","^ *","")
>
> >The "^" tells the search engine to start at the beginning.
> >The "*" looks for as many of the previous characters (here space)  
> as >possible.
>
> >To get rid of them at the end use
>
> >get replaceText("        The cat sat on the mat.         "," *$","")
>
> >The "$" tells the search engine to look at the end.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Oct 22 17:18:50 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:18:50 -0500
Subject: [ANN] StackRunner 1.0.3 available
Message-ID: <BF8016EA.2E65E%kray@sonsothunder.com>

Just a quick note to let you all know that version 1.0.3 of StackRunner has
been uploaded; this version fixes a bug where the 'closeStack' message
wasn't being sent to the last closing stack.

If this is the first time you've heard of StackRunner, StackRunner is a
simple "player" application that is similar to the DreamCard Player in that
it will "play" your MetaCard or Revolution stacks, but it is much simpler
and doesn't present any user-interface elements so it runs "cleaner". It's
free, so you can distribute it with any kind of stack.

You can get more information and download it here:

  http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads/StackRunner.htm

Enjoy!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Oct 22 17:29:31 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:29:31 -0700
Subject: Phishy Paypal
In-Reply-To: <7F435314-18D9-430E-BF33-7BA37084F53A@writeme.com>
References: <20051022074717.77394824E17@mail.runrev.com>	<2A77479B-4DFA-4F60-A968-0A8A17A2D544@conncoll.edu>	<D0B1AD84-55C4-4512-A59B-8CCF9950267F@adelphia.net>	<a06110400bf8024d8fb06@[10.0.1.42]>
	<7F435314-18D9-430E-BF33-7BA37084F53A@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <435AAF3B.2000006@fourthworld.com>

Dennis Brown wrote:
> I just used my Paypal for a transaction yesterday after a long period  
> of not using it.  Today I have been Phished twice by phony Paypal  
> emails and sites!

There may or may not be a cause-and-effect relationship there.  After 
all, phishing is an attempt to get account info from someone -- if 
you're already a PayPal customer and PayPal were doing the phishing, 
they'd just be working overtime to get info they already have.

You could test this theory by using a complex semi-random email address 
that's not published anywhere else.

But I suspect such a test will turn out negative.  Not that I have 
enough experience with PayPal to vouch for them, but simply that PayPal 
phishing their own customers for info just doesn't make sense.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From alex at tweedly.net  Sat Oct 22 17:51:41 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:51:41 +0100
Subject: How trim?
In-Reply-To: <435A5519.5080302@brturbo.com>
References: <435A5519.5080302@brturbo.com>
Message-ID: <435AB46D.3080304@tweedly.net>

Bob Warren wrote:

>
> Alex:
>
> I couldn't seem to make your first suggestions for L and R trims work. 
> Would you mind spelling out some example routines for me?

I've combined Mark Smith's versions, an alternate for one of his and 
mine all in the following script.
Beware there are subtle differences in the results from the various 
solutions presented (these here, and Thomas's regex-based ones).  

The original question actually said "remove blanks", and mentioned the 
LTRIM$ etc. functions in Basic.

In VB (I believe), LTRIM removes *only* spaces.
In other versions of Basics (and also in PHP, Python, Perl, etc.) Ltrim 
(or equivalents) remove all whitespace characters (usually, spaces and 
TABs).

So if that subtle difference matters, be careful which one you use.

> --> all handlers
>
> function trimL aString
>    return char offset(word 1 of aString, aString) to -1 of aString
> end trimL
>
> function trimR aString
>   return  char 1 to  length(word 1 to -1 of aString) + (offset(word  1 
> of aString, aString) - 1) of aString
> end trimR
>
> function trimRAlternate aString
>   return  char 1 to (offset(word  1 of aString, aString) - 1) of 
> aString & word 1 to -1 of aString
> end trimRAlternate
>
>
>
> function agttrimL aString
>     return char 1 to -2 of (word 1 to -1 of (aString & "="))      -- 
> could have been any non-space character
> end agttrimL
>
> function agttrimR aString
>   return char 2 to -1 of (word 1 to -1 of ("=" & aString))
> end agttrimR
>

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/146 - Release Date: 21/10/2005



From revolution at derbrill.de  Sat Oct 22 18:13:32 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 00:13:32 +0200
Subject: OT: Bush in Free Fall
In-Reply-To: <20051022170003.6105E825095@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <1534E454-4349-11DA-92A8-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

> awesome :-)

Indeed!

While we are at cool flashes: The coolest skeleton I saw was done by  
vectorlounge, which seem to have disappeared (a pity) I found an  
archived version.

<http://web.archive.org/web/20030605104909/http://www.vectorlounge.com/ 
04_amsterdam/jam/wireframe.swf>

If might hang on load. If it does so, right click on the flash movie  
and hit play...

> in order to be in chart: no means to make something approaching this?
> arcade engine, for instance (not so much studied it, I must confess...)

Not "out of the box". Skeleton animation and rigid body dynamics  is a  
very complex topic and even more complex to derive generalized  
techniques, or one method fits all approaches.  That is not handled in  
ArcadeEngine today. Even though some of the needed functions are  
already in it, ArcadeEngine lacks the physics parts (physics are on the  
to do list for version 2.0).

<blow my own horn mode>

ArcadeEngines main focus today is fluent asynchronus movement, fast  
collision detection and prescripted behaviours for path creation and  
constraining movement, spiced up with a neat set of geometric functions  
to save some headaches. ;-)

The next update will provide more collision detection methods (very  
fast polygon-polygon collision tests for convex and concave polygons),  
fast point in poly tests, line- and lineSegment intersection points,  
tests on which side of a line a point is located (left, right or on the  
line), a new User interface and revised documentation.

</tooooot tooooot>

All the best,

Malte

---
ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes
http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine
http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum 



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 22 18:15:47 2005
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 15:15:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Phishy Paypal -- "those guys pushing the envelope"
In-Reply-To: <435AAF3B.2000006@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20051022221547.293.qmail@web33014.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



--- Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
wrote:

> PayPal phishing their own customers 
> for info just doesn't make sense.

"those guys are always pushing the envelope"
refered to the bad guys in Romania or wherever.

the range of responses was VERY informative.

btw, spellcheck shows Gascony and Goatskin.

Erik Hansen



erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Sat Oct 22 18:53:24 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 15:53:24 -0700
Subject: strange issue
In-Reply-To: <435A7CA0.4040707@fourthworld.com>
References: <20051021142827.36FB982522F@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230903bf7f73dccecc@[192.168.1.104]>
	<573989987.20051022103626@ahsoftware.net>
	<435A7CA0.4040707@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <p0623090bbf80730dd4bb@[192.168.1.104]>

yeah, I was wrong, I did it from memory. Of course I've seen and used 
the suggested forms by Richard.

>Mark Wieder wrote:
>>>pParameter
>>>tLocalVariable
>>>gGlobalVariable
>>>cCustomProperty (or kCustomProperty?)
>>
>>I've come around to the convention of using "uCustomProperty" for my
>>own custom properties.
>>
>>and "kConstant" (never got out of that habit)...
>
>Me too. "c" is commonly used to denote classes in OOP languages, and 
>plans for OOP extensions to Transcript have been part of the plan 
>for some time now.  So in my shop we're reserving the "c" prefix for 
>those extensions, and use "u" (for "user-defined property") instead.
>
>--
>  Richard Gaskin

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Sat Oct 22 18:58:26 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 15:58:26 -0700
Subject: Phishy Paypal
In-Reply-To: <7F435314-18D9-430E-BF33-7BA37084F53A@writeme.com>
References: <20051022074717.77394824E17@mail.runrev.com>
	<2A77479B-4DFA-4F60-A968-0A8A17A2D544@conncoll.edu>
	<D0B1AD84-55C4-4512-A59B-8CCF9950267F@adelphia.net>
	<a06110400bf8024d8fb06@[10.0.1.42]>
	<7F435314-18D9-430E-BF33-7BA37084F53A@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <p0623090cbf8073d40378@[192.168.1.104]>

But one will never know whether it was coincidence or not unless one 
uses a special email address for Paypal transactions. I have never 
gotten a 'phishing' email from anyone using the special email address 
I created. This is highly recommended if you can have multiple 
addresses or aliases on your email account.

>I just used my Paypal for a transaction yesterday after a long 
>period of not using it.  Today I have been Phished twice by phony 
>Paypal emails and sites!
>
>Dennis
>

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 22 19:55:13 2005
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:55:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Phishy Paypal
In-Reply-To: <p0623090cbf8073d40378@[192.168.1.104]>
Message-ID: <20051022235513.48066.qmail@web33015.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



--- Stephen Barncard
<stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com> wrote:

> But one will never know whether it was
> coincidence or not unless one
> uses a special email address for Paypal
> transactions. I have never
> gotten a 'phishing' email from anyone using the
> special email address
> I created. This is highly recommended if you
> can have multiple
> addresses or aliases on your email account.

tanks for duh tip.

i do have a special bank account that i only
load prior to a purchase. i also keep a small
amount in PayPal for convenience.

Erik Hansen

erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From jhurley at infostations.com  Sat Oct 22 20:07:56 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:07:56 -0700
Subject: [ANN] StackRunner 1.0.3 available
In-Reply-To: <20051022232633.977A68251CD@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051022232633.977A68251CD@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230914bf8083e8875d@[69.85.136.180]>

>
>Just a quick note to let you all know that version 1.0.3 of StackRunner has
>been uploaded; this version fixes a bug where the 'closeStack' message
>wasn't being sent to the last closing stack.
>
>If this is the first time you've heard of StackRunner, StackRunner is a
>simple "player" application that is similar to the DreamCard Player in that
>it will "play" your MetaCard or Revolution stacks, but it is much simpler
>and doesn't present any user-interface elements so it runs "cleaner". It's
>free, so you can distribute it with any kind of stack.
>
>You can get more information and download it here:
>
>   http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads/StackRunner.htm
>
>Enjoy!
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software
>Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>


Ken,

Just a note to say how useful I found StackRunner recently. I was 
working on an application for a friend of mine. There was a lot of 
back and forth. But I only needed to update the file; no need to send 
a giant standalone.

Thank you so much for this.

Jim


From see3d at writeme.com  Sat Oct 22 20:35:55 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:35:55 -0400
Subject: OT: Bush in Free Fall
In-Reply-To: <1534E454-4349-11DA-92A8-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
References: <1534E454-4349-11DA-92A8-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <627F508E-8290-4548-80E8-0BB1771A9285@writeme.com>

Malte,

http://www.wireframe.co.za/f4/default1.htm

is the address of some more interesting animations from the company  
that did the dancing skeletons.

Dennis

On Oct 22, 2005, at 6:13 PM, Malte Brill wrote:

>> awesome :-)
>>
>
> Indeed!
>
> While we are at cool flashes: The coolest skeleton I saw was done  
> by vectorlounge, which seem to have disappeared (a pity) I found an  
> archived version.
>
> <http://web.archive.org/web/20030605104909/http:// 
> www.vectorlounge.com/04_amsterdam/jam/wireframe.swf>
>
> If might hang on load. If it does so, right click on the flash  
> movie and hit play...
>
>
>> in order to be in chart: no means to make something approaching this?
>> arcade engine, for instance (not so much studied it, I must  
>> confess...)
>>
>
> Not "out of the box". Skeleton animation and rigid body dynamics   
> is a very complex topic and even more complex to derive generalized  
> techniques, or one method fits all approaches.  That is not handled  
> in ArcadeEngine today. Even though some of the needed functions are  
> already in it, ArcadeEngine lacks the physics parts (physics are on  
> the to do list for version 2.0).
>
> <blow my own horn mode>
>
> ArcadeEngines main focus today is fluent asynchronus movement, fast  
> collision detection and prescripted behaviours for path creation  
> and constraining movement, spiced up with a neat set of geometric  
> functions to save some headaches. ;-)
>
> The next update will provide more collision detection methods (very  
> fast polygon-polygon collision tests for convex and concave  
> polygons), fast point in poly tests, line- and lineSegment  
> intersection points, tests on which side of a line a point is  
> located (left, right or on the line), a new User interface and  
> revised documentation.
>
> </tooooot tooooot>
>
> All the best,
>
> Malte
>
> ---
> ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes
> http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine
> http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Oct 22 21:17:05 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:17:05 -0500
Subject: How trim?
In-Reply-To: <435AB46D.3080304@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <BF804EC1.2E67A%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/22/05 4:51 PM, "Alex Tweedly" <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:

> Bob Warren wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Alex:
>> 
>> I couldn't seem to make your first suggestions for L and R trims work.
>> Would you mind spelling out some example routines for me?
> 
> I've combined Mark Smith's versions, an alternate for one of his and
> mine all in the following script.
> Beware there are subtle differences in the results from the various
> solutions presented (these here, and Thomas's regex-based ones).
> 
> The original question actually said "remove blanks", and mentioned the
> LTRIM$ etc. functions in Basic.
> 
> In VB (I believe), LTRIM removes *only* spaces.
> In other versions of Basics (and also in PHP, Python, Perl, etc.) Ltrim
> (or equivalents) remove all whitespace characters (usually, spaces and
> TABs).
> 
> So if that subtle difference matters, be careful which one you use.

Also one other thing to keep in mind - if you're going to be doing full
trimming (i.e. *all* white spaces - space, tab, 'hard' (non-breaking)
spaces, CRs, LFs, etc.) and you're going be doing it in a repeat loop,
you're going to want the most efficient version available.

Originally I proposed using matchText to make this happen:

function trim pWhat
  local tRetVal
  get matchText(pWhat, "(?s)^\s*(.*?)\s*$", tRetVal)
  return tRetVal
end trim

But when using RevBench (Richard Gaskin's benchmarking tool), it was 74x
slower than using Jacque's original suggestion which did everything *but*
hard spaces:

function Trim what
  return (word 1 to -1 of what)
end Trim

So this next version is the fastest approach I've found that accommodates
everything:

function Trim what
  if the platform is "MacOS" then
    replace numToChar(202) with " " in what
  else
    replace numToChar(160) with " " in what
  end if
  return (word 1 to -1 of what)
end Trim

Here's the benchmarks (tested over 50000 loops):

Trim (matchtext): 0.0148 ticks/run
Trim (word 1 to -1, no hard space):  0.0002 ticks/run
Trim (word 1 to -1, gets everything): 0.0004 ticks/run

Just FYI...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Oct 22 21:47:14 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:47:14 -0700
Subject: Best Update Standalone Scenario
In-Reply-To: <2F09C6AB-4B70-48DF-867F-C27F5B46C8C8@hindu.org>
References: <4E8851B0-BD62-49CE-830E-17EF10B36287@hindu.org>
	<4359D488.50906@chipp.com> <583782969.20051022103259@ahsoftware.net>
	<2F09C6AB-4B70-48DF-867F-C27F5B46C8C8@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <1733438291.20051022184714@ahsoftware.net>

Sivakatirswami-

Saturday, October 22, 2005, 12:44:33 PM, you wrote:

> 1)  How do you handle the Splash Screen-Engine-Player after the
> MainStack is opened... set it to invisible? Just let it sit in the  
> background behind everything? I would guess the former, which is more
> normal UI behavior (I mean there is no Splash screen present in the
> visible GUI once the user opens an MS word document, or any Adobe  
> document either...)

Can't (or won't) answer for Chipp here, but here's the entire Splash
Screen script from one of my apps. I put this into the openStack
handler because I *want* the splash screen to be visible if there's a
problem opening the main stack. Then the user is presented with the
splash screen, which has a field that says that an error has occurred
and they should contact me.

on openStack
  set the visible of me to false
  open stack "LPMain" -- the mainStack for this app
  close me
end openStack

> 2) Marie Signe recently said the special folder path to /Application
> Data/ on Windows was (26)... this email say (35) ....

The difference here is whether you want a single file installed for
all users on the computer to share or just for the current user (in
which case different users on the computer would have separate copies
of the file). Use (35) for the first case and (26) for the second
case.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Sat Oct 22 22:13:45 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Buster)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 04:13:45 +0200
Subject: How trim?
In-Reply-To: <BF804EC1.2E67A%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF804EC1.2E67A%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <C4AA356C-119A-4949-B264-9FA8E002B5DA@scarlet.be>


On 23 Oct 2005, at 03:17, Ken Ray wrote:

-snip-

> So this next version is the fastest approach I've found that  
> accommodates
> everything:
>
> function Trim what
>   if the platform is "MacOS" then
>     replace numToChar(202) with " " in what
>   else
>     replace numToChar(160) with " " in what
>   end if
>   return (word 1 to -1 of what)
> end Trim


The above function will also replace hard spaces from the whole string.

But what about this way (strips spaces and hard spaces from beginning  
and end):

function Trim what
   return token 1 to -1 of what
end Trim

Greetings,
Wouter


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 22 22:30:59 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:30:59 -0700
Subject: How trim?
In-Reply-To: <7C6F7310-983B-4F75-83A8-731618939D25@scarlet.be>
Message-ID: <BF8043F3.2F720%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

True, but padding at each end should fix this.

get replaceText(space &"      The cat sat on the mat.       "&space,"^
*","")

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 10/22/05 2:17 PM, "Buster" <wouter.abraham at scarlet.be> wrote:

> It is indeed elegant, but a condition check is necessary here as it
> will remove the first word + the space(s) if there is no space at the
> start of the line.
> 
>> "        The cat sat on the mat.         "
> will become
>   " The cat sat on the mat.         "
> But if no space in front the result is
> "cat sat on the mat.         "
> 
> On 22 Oct 2005, at 22:41, Bob Warren wrote:
> 
>> Well, I am relieved to say it wasn't such a dumb question after
>> all. Thanks chaps! And thanks particularly to Thomas Fischer who
>> has come up with the most elegant solution. QED. Now I need to go
>> off and study regular expressions.....
>> ------------------------------------------
>>> This is a classical application of regular expressions. Try
>>> get replaceText("        The cat sat on the mat.         ","^ *","")
>>> The "^" tells the search engine to start at the beginning.
>>> The "*" looks for as many of the previous characters (here space)
>> as >possible.
>> 
>>> To get rid of them at the end use
>>> get replaceText("        The cat sat on the mat.         "," *$","")
>>> The "$" tells the search engine to look at the end.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Oct 22 23:52:53 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:52:53 -0500
Subject: How trim?
In-Reply-To: <C4AA356C-119A-4949-B264-9FA8E002B5DA@scarlet.be>
References: <BF804EC1.2E67A%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<C4AA356C-119A-4949-B264-9FA8E002B5DA@scarlet.be>
Message-ID: <435B0915.60407@hyperactivesw.com>

Buster wrote:

> But what about this way (strips spaces and hard spaces from beginning  
> and end):
> 
> function Trim what
>   return token 1 to -1 of what
> end Trim

Hey. Cool!

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From chipp at chipp.com  Sun Oct 23 03:06:47 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 02:06:47 -0500
Subject: Best Update Standalone Scenario
In-Reply-To: <2F09C6AB-4B70-48DF-867F-C27F5B46C8C8@hindu.org>
References: <4E8851B0-BD62-49CE-830E-17EF10B36287@hindu.org>	<4359D488.50906@chipp.com>	<583782969.20051022103259@ahsoftware.net>
	<2F09C6AB-4B70-48DF-867F-C27F5B46C8C8@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <435B3687.8050604@chipp.com>

Sivakatirswami wrote:
> Aloha, Chipp and Mark:
> 
> Excellent, thanks... I have copied Chipps scenario to my own  knowledge 
> base.
> 
> Two questions:
> 
> 1)  How do you handle the Splash Screen-Engine-Player after the  
> MainStack is opened... set it to invisible? Just let it sit in the  
> background behind everything? I would guess the former, which is more  
> normal UI behavior (I mean there is no Splash screen present in the  
> visible GUI once the user opens an MS word document, or any Adobe  
> document either...)
> 
> 2) Marie Signe recently said the special folder path to /Application  
> Data/ on Windows was (26)... this email say (35) ....

Sivakatirswami,

I do the same as Mark, I close the startup stack *after* opening the 
regular one.

(35) is for all users, not just a single user. I chose (35) so I don't 
have to deal with multiple users (logins) on XP, some having problems 
launching the stack(s). Though I do have a few apps which use the (26) 
one as well. It's really up to you.

Sometimes I store the downloaded main stack in (35) and user prefs in 
(26) so that multiple users can each have their own preference setting.

You might want to take a look at:
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/MagicCarpetAAA/default.htm

There's a sample splashStack there as well.




From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Sun Oct 23 03:12:00 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 08:12:00 +0100
Subject: How trim?
In-Reply-To: <435A3FDD.5020403@brturbo.com>
References: <435A3FDD.5020403@brturbo.com>
Message-ID: <02AF159F-BC98-4258-8B98-6E23371CD56B@lacscentre.co.uk>

Is there a requirement for the solutions to be one liners?

I think the following 2 are faster than any solutions using  
replaceText, and more readable too.

function trimL pString
   put " " & tab & return into x
   repeat while char 1 of pString in in x
     delete char 1 of pString
   end repeat
   return pString
end trimL

function trimR pString
   put " " & tab & return into x
   repeat while char -1 of pString in in x
     delete char -1 of pString
   end repeat
   return pString
end trimR

The following is not as fast as "return word 1 to -1 of ....", but  
it's less than twice as slow. And it makes it easy to modify which  
whitespace characters to remove.


function trim pString
   put " " & tab & return into x
   repeat while char 1 of pString in in x
     delete char 1 of pString
   end repeat
   repeat while char -1 of pString in in x
     delete char -1 of pString
   end repeat
   return pString
end trim


Cheers
Dave


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Sun Oct 23 05:53:45 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:53:45 +0100
Subject: Best Update Standalone Scenario
In-Reply-To: <2F09C6AB-4B70-48DF-867F-C27F5B46C8C8@hindu.org>
References: <4E8851B0-BD62-49CE-830E-17EF10B36287@hindu.org>
	<4359D488.50906@chipp.com>
	<583782969.20051022103259@ahsoftware.net>
	<2F09C6AB-4B70-48DF-867F-C27F5B46C8C8@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <0D3AD44B-F7FF-4C1D-B319-35D0E8D3B9C3@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 22 Oct 2005, at 20:44, Sivakatirswami wrote:
>
> Aside query about Windows systems... why are two different ones for
>
> C:\Documents and Settings\username\Application Data
> and
> C:\Documents and Settings\username\Local Settings\Application Data\)
>


The first one, specialFolderPath(26), may be stored on a server where  
roaming profiles are used. The second one, specialFolderPath(28), is  
only ever kept on the local machine.  You should use the first one  
for data the user should have access to, no matter which machine the  
user logs on from (application prefs for example). The second one is  
typically used for cached data (the Internet Explorer cache is kept  
here),  which isn't really needed in every location.

Cheers
Dave



From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Sun Oct 23 06:03:47 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:03:47 +0200
Subject: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine
In-Reply-To: <7C6F7310-983B-4F75-83A8-731618939D25@scarlet.be>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCIEFFDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hi,

Wouter is right:

> It is indeed elegant, but a condition check is necessary here as it  
> will remove the first word + the space(s) if there is no space at the  
> start of the line.
> 
> > "        The cat sat on the mat.         "

> But if no space in front the result is
> 
> "cat sat on the mat.         "
> 

This is actually true -- and a serious bug in Revolution's RegExp engine.

The Regular Expression Syntax reference states:

^ matches the following character at the beginning of the string
^A matches "ABC" but not "CAB"

* matches zero or more occurrences of the preceding character or pattern

I assumed that Revolution would do what it promised and didn't check this.

Try
answer replaceText("A C","^ *","")
I get "C", which obviously is not correct.
If I remove the "*", I get "A C"

And
answer replaceText("BAC","^A*","")
gives "C", so "^A*" matches "BA".
This must not happen.

It looks like "^A*" is incorrectly interpreted as "^.*A*".

Parentheses don't help, but might make things worse:
answer replaceText("BAC","(^A)*","")
gives an empty result. No idea why.

All the best
Thomas


--
Thomas Fischer
Salzburg 



From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Sun Oct 23 06:23:16 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:23:16 +0100
Subject: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCIEFFDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
References: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCIEFFDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <3CD159C8-0FA8-440D-A43C-B09DEAA8CB6A@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 23 Oct 2005, at 11:03, Thomas Fischer wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Wouter is right:
>
>
>> It is indeed elegant, but a condition check is necessary here as it
>> will remove the first word + the space(s) if there is no space at the
>> start of the line.
>>
>>
>>> "        The cat sat on the mat.         "
>>>
>
>
>> But if no space in front the result is
>>
>> "cat sat on the mat.         "
>>
>>
>
> This is actually true -- and a serious bug in Revolution's RegExp  
> engine.
>
> The Regular Expression Syntax reference states:
>
> ^ matches the following character at the beginning of the string
> ^A matches "ABC" but not "CAB"
>
> * matches zero or more occurrences of the preceding character or  
> pattern
>
> I assumed that Revolution would do what it promised and didn't  
> check this.
>
> Try
> answer replaceText("A C","^ *","")
> I get "C", which obviously is not correct.
> If I remove the "*", I get "A C"

This may be a bug. (I'm not sure.)

But the following will work:

answer replaceText("A C","^ +","")

I.e. match "at least one" occurrence of a space, which is what is  
intended.


Cheers
Dave


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Sun Oct 23 06:59:44 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:59:44 +0100
Subject: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine
In-Reply-To: <3CD159C8-0FA8-440D-A43C-B09DEAA8CB6A@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCIEFFDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
	<3CD159C8-0FA8-440D-A43C-B09DEAA8CB6A@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <605EFDF0-887B-4605-8F56-FC38F0EBFEAC@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 23 Oct 2005, at 11:23, Dave Cragg wrote:
>>
>> I assumed that Revolution would do what it promised and didn't  
>> check this.
>>
>> Try
>> answer replaceText("A C","^ *","")
>> I get "C", which obviously is not correct.
>> If I remove the "*", I get "A C"
>>
>
> This may be a bug. (I'm not sure.)

To expand on why I wasn't sure if it was a bug or not.

A regular expression consisting of a single character (or single  
character set) followed by the * (zero or more matches) quantifier  
will always match. Therefore it's not really a useful construction.  
If it always matches, replaceText will presumably always try to  
replace the matched text. But in this case, it has matched an empty  
string, so I guess the engine is confused about where the replacement  
should be made. As far as I know, replaceText always works when the  
above construction is used in combination with another expression  
(e.g yx*, x*y, yx*z), so if it is a bug, I don't think it can be  
considered a serious  one.

>> answer replaceText("A C","^ +","")

The above works because the match can fail, in which case no  
replacement is made.

Cheers
Dave


From AbilityForms at aol.com  Sun Oct 23 08:16:42 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 08:16:42 EDT
Subject: DoMenu
Message-ID: <140.4ed716e8.308cd92a@aol.com>

Hi Everyone,

Is there a way for the handler of a menuItem to activate the handler of a 
menuItem in a different menu? DoMenu doesn't seem to work. I'm using Mac OSX.

Joe,
Orlando, Florida


From markgreenberg at cox.net  Sun Oct 23 09:47:50 2005
From: markgreenberg at cox.net (Mark Greenberg)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:47:50 -0700
Subject: How trim?
In-Reply-To: <20051022232633.860A08251CB@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051022232633.860A08251CB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3810C79B-C8D8-4A5F-8667-36C6B7B1348F@cox.net>

Ah, I never get to provide a solution to these questions... until  
now.  Usually they are beyond my hobbyist skills or a dozen heavy  
hitters have solved the dilemma already by the time I read the  
digests.  Now the trick is posting this before anyone else beats me  
to it.  ; )

Bob, many types of characters are invisible.  Collectively called  
"white space," they include TAB, hard space, space, new line, form  
feed, etc.  If I'm not mistaken, the list gets even longer if the  
data is in unicode.  Regular Expressions has a way to catch all of  
these at once.  In Rev this looks like this:

-- to trim leading white space
ReplaceText("    The cat crawled under the mat.        ","^\s+","")
-- \s means any white space, and + means one or more of them.

-- likewise, to trim trailing white space
ReplaceText("    The cat crawled under the mat.         ","\s+$","")

The 1 to -1 solution is best for stripping both ends.

         Mark Greenberg

PS  Thanks for the 15 seconds of fame.




From rcozens at pon.net  Sun Oct 23 11:34:42 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 08:34:42 -0700
Subject: database
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20051023080438.01e96cb0@pop3.pon.net>

Hi again Pascal,

>I have scripted a hierarchical, binary-tree database in Transcript which 
>is open-source and royalty-free.  Relational indexes are NOT built in, but 
>must be created and maintained individually.

SDB could be made relational by:

* Adding a list of inverted key field names or ordinals to the arguments 
passed to the changeSDBRecord, deleteSDBRecord, and fileSDBRecord commands 
and modifying the underlying logic to maintain inverted indexes.

Note: this could be implemented more transparently by tagging inverted key 
fields in the data dictionary; but most of SDB's features can be accessed 
without setting up a data dictionary description of the record, and I 
desire to maintain that option for this feature.

* Adding support for an inverted key field name or ordinal argument in the 
findSDBRecord and getSDBRecord commands.

Conceptually this is not difficult, and I'm willing to find the time to do 
the scripting if anyone is interested enough to test it.  Please contact me 
privately if this interests you.

Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
  Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

  from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)  



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Sun Oct 23 11:51:21 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 08:51:21 -0700
Subject: clipboard on linux?
Message-ID: <57420321-B5FD-420F-AD35-071CBB9518B6@inspiredlogic.com>

I have an application where I set the contents of the clipboard,  
sometimes with text, sometimes with images. This works fine on a Mac  
and a PC, but on Linux nothing is copied. What should I be looking at?

gc


From psahores at easynet.fr  Sun Oct 23 14:23:37 2005
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:23:37 +0200
Subject: clipboard on linux?
In-Reply-To: <57420321-B5FD-420F-AD35-071CBB9518B6@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <57420321-B5FD-420F-AD35-071CBB9518B6@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <458DC87D-6484-4DC4-B00F-5E96646AE391@easynet.fr>

In my case, all worked always fine again under any linux i used, as  
soon as i set the KDE/Gnome clipboard to unstarted/unactive... Just  
quit this clipboard and answer "NO" when the prompt ask if you want  
the KDE/Gnome(or any other X11 Destop clipboard) and your Rev app  
should work again like a charm...

Best regards,

Le 23 oct. 05 ? 17:51, Geoff Canyon a ?crit :

> I have an application where I set the contents of the clipboard,  
> sometimes with text, sometimes with images. This works fine on a  
> Mac and a PC, but on Linux nothing is copied. What should I be  
> looking at?
>
> gc
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

skype : psahores

psahores+ at +easynet.fr
sc+ at +sahores-conseil.com

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

<http://www.sahores-conseil.com/>

WEB/VoD/ACID-DB services over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"




From psahores at easynet.fr  Sun Oct 23 14:26:04 2005
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:26:04 +0200
Subject: Fwd: clipboard on linux?
References: <458DC87D-6484-4DC4-B00F-5E96646AE391@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <5FB18E3A-C6D8-45BE-9672-551F8110CDB5@easynet.fr>



D?but du message r?exp?di? :

> De : Pierre Sahores <psahores at easynet.fr>
> Date : 23 octobre 2005 20:23:37 HAEC
> ? : How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>, Geoff  
> Canyon <gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com>
> Cc : Pierre Sahores <psahores at easynet.fr>
> Objet : R?p : clipboard on linux?
>
>
> In my case, all worked always fine again under any linux i used, as  
> soon as i set the KDE/Gnome clipboard to unstarted/unactive... Just  
> quit this clipboard and answer "NO" when the prompt ask if you want  
> the KDE/Gnome(or any other X11 Destop clipboard) started at boot  
> and your Rev app should work again like a charm...
>
> Best regards,
>
> Le 23 oct. 05 ? 17:51, Geoff Canyon a ?crit :
>
>> I have an application where I set the contents of the clipboard,  
>> sometimes with text, sometimes with images. This works fine on a  
>> Mac and a PC, but on Linux nothing is copied. What should I be  
>> looking at?
>>
>> gc
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
> -- 
> Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
>
> 100, rue de Paris
> F - 77140 Nemours
>
> skype : psahores
>
> psahores+ at +easynet.fr
> sc+ at +sahores-conseil.com
>
> GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
> Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
> Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
>
> <http://www.sahores-conseil.com/>
>
> WEB/VoD/ACID-DB services over IP
> "Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"
>
>



From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Oct 23 14:50:46 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:50:46 +0100
Subject: Help with image effect
Message-ID: <435BDB86.7010601@tweedly.net>


I want a nice, simple (?) visual effect:

 I have two images (which may be different sizes), and I want to swap 
them over (such that each one stretches or shrinks to occupy the space 
previously taken up by the other one).

I thought this would be simple ... loop some number of times, adjusting 
the "rect" of each image - then find a suitable "wait" value to slow it 
down.

In fact, it is unbearably slow - even for medium sized images (320*240 
swapping with a 320*480) each step is clearly visible.
For 2 images of 160*120 it's almost a smooth animation - I'm not sure if 
it's just that they are smaller sizes, or if it's the fact that the 
sizes remain the same.  (all on medium laptop - Pentium P4 2.8G with 
low-end ATI graphics)

It does look OK on a top of the range Pentium laptop with ATI92xx 
graphics (my wife needs high-end hardware to play Sims :-), but that's 
not exactly typical hardware yet.

Is there some other way I should be approaching this ?

> on imageSwap pImg1, pImg2, pNumber
>   local r1, r2
>   local dtlx, dtly, dbrx, dbry
>  
>   if paramCount() < 3 then
>     put 20 into pNumber
>   end if
>  
>   put the rect of img pImg1 into r1
>   put the rect of img pImg2 into r2
>    
>   put (item 1 of r2 - item 1 of r1)/20 into dtlx
>   put (item 2 of r2 - item 2 of r1)/20 into dtly
>   put (item 3 of r2 - item 3 of r1)/20 into dbrx
>   put (item 4 of r2 - item 4 of r1)/20 into dbry
>    
>   repeat with i = 1 to pNumber
>     set the rect of img pImg1 to trunc(item 1 of r1 + i*dtlx), 
> trunc(item 2 of r1 + i*dtly), trunc(item 3 of r1 + i*dbrx), trunc(item 
> 4 of r1 + i*dbry)
>     set the rect of img pImg2 to trunc(item 1 of r2 - i*dtlx), 
> trunc(item 2 of r2 - i*dtly), trunc(item 3 of r2 - i*dbrx), trunc(item 
> 4 of r2 - i*dbry)
>   end repeat
> end imageSwap

Thanks,

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/146 - Release Date: 21/10/2005



From markgreenberg at cox.net  Sun Oct 23 15:18:39 2005
From: markgreenberg at cox.net (Mark Greenberg)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:18:39 -0700
Subject: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine
In-Reply-To: <20051023170004.A7DAC824F5D@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051023170004.A7DAC824F5D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <AC9E2F4C-518D-4AF8-9ECB-D8C253DFDB60@cox.net>


On Oct 23, 2005, at 10:00 AM, Thomas Fischer wrote:

> * matches zero or more occurrences of the preceding character or  
> pattern
>
> I assumed that Revolution would do what it promised and didn't  
> check this.
>
> Try
> answer replaceText("A C","^ *","")
> I get "C", which obviously is not correct.
> If I remove the "*", I get "A C"

Though it's academic now since Bob has his solutions, this isn't a  
Rev bug; it's the way Regular Expressions work (or fail to in this  
case).  The problem is in the greediness of the * quantifier.  Though  
I can't say that I totally understand why, in cases where the RegEx  
reduces to nothing after the optional parts are removed, matching  
with either the ? or the * quantifiers causes unexpected results,  
regardless of whether the RegEx is in Perl, egrep, or wherever.  This  
is because the RegEx engine continues to try to find a match (to  
nothingness, I guess), consumes the entire string, and then  
backtracks giving up one character at a time.  Why "C" instead of "A  
C"?  I don't know, but my RegEx reference book (Mastering Regular  
Expressions by Jeffrey E. F. Friedl) does warn against such  
constructions as "^ *" with a lengthy explanation about greediness of  
the * and ? quantifiers.

Evidently this has been a known issue for a long time to those who  
use RegEx, so most modern versions of Regular Expressions include  
what they call "lazy" quantifiers.  Whereas * has this problem, *?  
(the lazy twin) does not.  Same with ? and ??.  So

answer replaceText("A C","^ *?","")

does work as expected.

       Mark Greenberg

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Oct 23 15:58:41 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:58:41 -0500
Subject: Some Foolish questions
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-F11E9253CBAA819EC694435D7730@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BF8155A1.2E69A%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/20/05 3:04 PM, "Fred Giannetto" <fgiannet at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Sir,
> 
> You stated previously
> 
>> You should be able to use 'revDB_moveprev' in order to move back one record
>> at a time. Rather than using a cursor (recordset), it may be more efficient
>> (if there's not a ton of data) to retrieve all the data at once into a
>> variable (or array) and then walk though that. If you need help in doing
>> this, please let us know
> 
> Please advise me on how you would setup the array or variable and be able to
> walk through it (there is not a ton of data).

Well, you'd use 'revdb_querylist' to retrieve your data, like:

  put "SELECT * FROM Entities" into tQuery
  put revdb_queryList("","",tDBRef,tQuery) into tData

and now tData has every record in the Entities table, where each line is a
record, and each field is tab-delimited. So suppose I had three records in
the Entities table, and three fields in the table (First, Last, Phone)...
tData might look like this (-> means 'tab'):

  Ken -> Ray -> 555-1212
  John -> Smith -> 555-1313
  Harry -> Gruber -> 555-1414

So you could use normal repeat loops, etc. to go through this to get what
you need, or do lineOffset() to search for the proper line, like this:

put lineOffset("Ken" & tab,tData) into tLine
if tLine <> 0 then
  set the itemDel to tab
  put item 2 of line tLine of tData into tLastName
  put item 3 of line tLine of tData into tPhone
end if
answer tLastName,tPhone

--> Answers "Ray,555-1212"

If you wanted to take the data and put it into an array, that's a bit more
difficult because the simple act of "split" will cause the first item of
each line to be the 'key', so if you did:

  split tData with return and tab

You'd have this:

  tData["Ken"]  --> "Ray,555-1212"

So that may not work very well for you without a lot of manipulation to get
it right. So perhaps just sticking with a tab-and-return-delimited chunk of
data (what you get back from revdb_queryList) would be best.

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Oct 23 16:27:40 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:27:40 -0700
Subject: Help with image effect
In-Reply-To: <435BDB86.7010601@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <BF81404C.23647%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Alex Tweedly  wrote:

> I want a nice, simple (?) visual effect:
> 
> I have two images (which may be different sizes), and I want to swap
> them over (such that each one stretches or shrinks to occupy the space
> previously taken up by the other one).
> 
> I thought this would be simple ... loop some number of times, adjusting
> the "rect" of each image - then find a suitable "wait" value to slow it
> down.
> 
> In fact, it is unbearably slow - even for medium sized images (320*240
> swapping with a 320*480) each step is clearly visible.
> For 2 images of 160*120 it's almost a smooth animation - I'm not sure if
> it's just that they are smaller sizes, or if it's the fact that the
> sizes remain the same.  (all on medium laptop - Pentium P4 2.8G with
> low-end ATI graphics)
> 
> It does look OK on a top of the range Pentium laptop with ATI92xx
> graphics (my wife needs high-end hardware to play Sims :-), but that's
> not exactly typical hardware yet.
> 
> Is there some other way I should be approaching this ?


Without seeing exactly what you're doing, I'll go out on a limb and guess
that yes, the images are too large for Rev to really do this smoothly.  If
Rev had some kind of direct-to-screen option, this might be doable, but the
images are probably a bit large for Rev to do natively. Three suggestions:

1) If possible, map the images down to 8 bit color, no transparency.  The
fewer calculations Rev has to do to render the image/s on the card, the
faster the transition can be.

2) If possible, don't do a "real" scaling effect.  Instead, create the
in-between frames in advance and show those, for example, as icons of a
button.  But again, given the size of the image, the delay between image
updates may still be too great, and of course, you probably want to do this
on-the-fly with any given images.

I just realized you mentioned Windows platform, so QT effects are probably
out.  But FWIW, I've seen the QT effects do blend/dissolve effects very
quickly, though I'm pretty sure the advanced ones are limited to OSX.

Sorry the above isn't much help.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Oct 23 16:35:50 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:35:50 -0700
Subject: Text Field Effect
Message-ID: <BF814236.23649%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Greetings List:

I just posted a stack that demonstrates an unusual effect you can apply to
text fields.  The stack is very large (1.8MB) as it does some very intense
calculations, but you're welcome to give it a try.

  http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/effect.rev.zip

Important: *requires* Rev 2.6 or later

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From revolution at derbrill.de  Sun Oct 23 16:43:31 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:43:31 +0200
Subject: Text Field Effect
In-Reply-To: <20051023170006.44E68824F87@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <AC352702-4405-11DA-9912-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Hey Scott,

I often wished I could do that before. Thanks for sharing. :-)

Malte

> Greetings List:
>
> I just posted a stack that demonstrates an unusual effect you can 
> apply to
> text fields.  The stack is very large (1.8MB) as it does some very 
> intense
> calculations, but you're welcome to give it a try.
>
>   http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/effect.rev.zip
>
> Important: *requires* Rev 2.6 or later


---
ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes
http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine
http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum 



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 23 16:45:41 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:45:41 -0700
Subject: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine
In-Reply-To: <AC9E2F4C-518D-4AF8-9ECB-D8C253DFDB60@cox.net>
Message-ID: <BF814485.2F753%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Hi Mark,

I am flag you are tossing this question into the mix.
My work is basically surface level application and is largely
trial-and-error using BBEdit to see what different expressions will yield on
a group of similar strings.

I thought that 'greediness' was to produce the longest possible match, and
the 'ungreedy (?U)' command was to have regex resolve to the shortest match.
For me, the use of symbols in sequence has remained somewhat of a mystery
since the grep engine works in more than one direction throughout a string.

I would like to understand this particular issue a bit better, so I might do
a conditioned test where 'regex(flavor)|string>result' would simply be a
table of results based on common tasks.

Perhaps we could compile a list of examples and alternatives.  The reason I
am interested is that I am using the MatchText, etc to parse some web page
data, and there can always be unexpected results.  The nature of my project
means that I really want to avoid the unexpected.

Grepping html or other code is always more of a challenge than plain English
prose or database tables.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 10/23/05 12:18 PM, "Mark Greenberg" <markgreenberg at cox.net> wrote:

> 
> On Oct 23, 2005, at 10:00 AM, Thomas Fischer wrote:
> 
>> * matches zero or more occurrences of the preceding character or
>> pattern
>> 
>> I assumed that Revolution would do what it promised and didn't
>> check this.
>> 
>> Try
>> answer replaceText("A C","^ *","")
>> I get "C", which obviously is not correct.
>> If I remove the "*", I get "A C"
> 
> Though it's academic now since Bob has his solutions, this isn't a
> Rev bug; it's the way Regular Expressions work (or fail to in this
> case).  The problem is in the greediness of the * quantifier.  Though
> I can't say that I totally understand why, in cases where the RegEx
> reduces to nothing after the optional parts are removed, matching
> with either the ? or the * quantifiers causes unexpected results,
> regardless of whether the RegEx is in Perl, egrep, or wherever.  This
> is because the RegEx engine continues to try to find a match (to
> nothingness, I guess), consumes the entire string, and then
> backtracks giving up one character at a time.  Why "C" instead of "A
> C"?  I don't know, but my RegEx reference book (Mastering Regular
> Expressions by Jeffrey E. F. Friedl) does warn against such
> constructions as "^ *" with a lengthy explanation about greediness of
> the * and ? quantifiers.
> 
> Evidently this has been a known issue for a long time to those who
> use RegEx, so most modern versions of Regular Expressions include
> what they call "lazy" quantifiers.  Whereas * has this problem, *?
> (the lazy twin) does not.  Same with ? and ??.  So
> 
> answer replaceText("A C","^ *?","")
> 
> does work as expected.
> 
>        Mark Greenberg
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From katir at hindu.org  Sun Oct 23 16:47:52 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:47:52 -1000
Subject: Best Update Standalone Scenario
In-Reply-To: <435B3687.8050604@chipp.com>
References: <4E8851B0-BD62-49CE-830E-17EF10B36287@hindu.org>	<4359D488.50906@chipp.com>	<583782969.20051022103259@ahsoftware.net>
	<2F09C6AB-4B70-48DF-867F-C27F5B46C8C8@hindu.org>
	<435B3687.8050604@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <6D81276A-AB2C-4471-8854-8031FFA21272@hindu.org>

Chipp:

"up to you" right.. we have the same thing going on now on the Mac with


/HD/LIbrary/Application Support/

# better, I think, for the "mainstack.rev" than preferences, though I  
could be wrong...but on the Mac the "big boys" seem to have some  
criteria (which not everyone follows by any means) for what goes  
into /Application Support/ and what goes into /Preferences/   
Typically, in the past,  the latter-prefs can be 100% volatile  
without breaking your app.."Trash your prefs" being a typical first  
line of attack on a problem... while /Application Support/ carries  
critical components, with which the entire app or some funcationality  
of it, will fail completely without re-installation...

and

/HD/Users/Chipp/LIbrary/Application Support/

then, finally, just to be absolutely clear and in case newbies are  
lurking..
  and we haven't addressed this as yet...All of this assumes that the  
user can put the SplashScreen-Engine-Player.exe file anywhere they  
want to...

Right?

Typically you have no control over this anyway... one person  
("Whatever!")  has his desktop set as the downloads folder, other  
"Virgo Types" ("I Need Perfect order!") meticulously  set up  
downloads folders, then move their downloaded files out to other  
logically named (for them, their projects) folders...

Which would also mean that for a dual file distribution--where you  
ship both the

SplashScreen-Engine-Player.exe
MainMyAppStack.rev

together... they will land on the HD in some unknown location: you  
would need an additional procedure (not so far mentioned) to move/ 
copy MainMyAppStack.rev to the specialFolder on start up...

I'm finding that though developers tend to live all day long with a  
pipe open to the net, "out there in the real world" that's not always  
the case. so one has to consider a single download for installation  
with the possibility that the next time the person boots, they will  
not be online -- their teenage daughter is having a 2 hour session  
with her friend on the phone. Or,  people are using portables and are  
sitting in the dentist's office and they don't have a  
connection....and you don't want your splash screen to say "Sorry, I  
know you already downloaded this application but you have to be  
online to continue in order to *really* download it [to now get the  
MainMyAppStack.rev]

e.g. we just set up an agreement with eGranary for distribution of  
large portions of our web content to remote servers (e.g. big box in  
a high-school in Nairobi, Kenya) where the model is: download  
terrabytes of resources to a local server, then let 500 users on the  
LAN have access to the files with no outside connection to the the  
"real" internet required... of course this model breaks everything in  
terms of updates, which is an issue for eGranary that they are  
working on... but, you get the point.. lots of users will not be  
online after initial installation.

i.e. so, isn't the dual file "package" the normal initial distribution?

Sorry for dragging this out but it seems a "mission critical" area to  
have totally "smooth" and we are looking to launch some very  
"professional" apps in the not too distant future to a very broad  
audience for which support could be an incredible issue.. .we don't  
want to be drowning in a sea of bug reports.

Sivakatirswami


On Oct 22, 2005, at 9:06 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Sivakatirswami wrote:
>
>> Aloha, Chipp and Mark:
>> Excellent, thanks... I have copied Chipps scenario to my own   
>> knowledge base.
>> Two questions:
>> 1)  How do you handle the Splash Screen-Engine-Player after the   
>> MainStack is opened... set it to invisible? Just let it sit in  
>> the  background behind everything? I would guess the former, which  
>> is more  normal UI behavior (I mean there is no Splash screen  
>> present in the  visible GUI once the user opens an MS word  
>> document, or any Adobe  document either...)
>> 2) Marie Signe recently said the special folder path to / 
>> Application  Data/ on Windows was (26)... this email say (35) ....
>>
>
> Sivakatirswami,
>
> I do the same as Mark, I close the startup stack *after* opening  
> the regular one.
>
> (35) is for all users, not just a single user. I chose (35) so I  
> don't have to deal with multiple users (logins) on XP, some having  
> problems launching the stack(s). Though I do have a few apps which  
> use the (26) one as well. It's really up to you.
>
> Sometimes I store the downloaded main stack in (35) and user prefs  
> in (26) so that multiple users can each have their own preference  
> setting.
>
> You might want to take a look at:
> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/MagicCarpetAAA/default.htm
>
> There's a sample splashStack there as well.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Oct 23 18:33:36 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 17:33:36 -0500
Subject: Text Field Effect
In-Reply-To: <BF814236.23649%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF814236.23649%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <435C0FC0.1070103@hyperactivesw.com>

Scott Rossi wrote:
> Greetings List:
> 
> I just posted a stack that demonstrates an unusual effect you can apply to
> text fields.  The stack is very large (1.8MB) as it does some very intense
> calculations, but you're welcome to give it a try.

Cute. But I see far more applications for this than just text. For 
example, applying the effect to photos of unpopular politicians could be 
very satisfying.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 18:36:02 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 08:36:02 +1000
Subject: DoMenu
In-Reply-To: <140.4ed716e8.308cd92a@aol.com>
References: <140.4ed716e8.308cd92a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510231536o5cc004d4he16296787ad557ca@mail.gmail.com>

> Is there a way for the handler of a menuItem to activate the handler of a
> menuItem in a different menu? DoMenu doesn't seem to work. I'm using Mac OSX.
>

Hi Joe,

You can send a "menuPick" to any menu. Here is an example that opens
the Stack Inspector:

send "menuPick " & quote & "Stack Inspector" & quote to btn "Object"
of stack "revMenuBar"

As you can see, you need to give the name of the menuitem, the name of
the menu (or button) and the stack that contains the menu.

HTH,
Sarah


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Oct 23 18:56:41 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:56:41 -0700
Subject: Text Field Effect
In-Reply-To: <435C0FC0.1070103@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <BF816339.2366A%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, J. Landman Gay  wrote:

>> I just posted a stack that demonstrates an unusual effect you can apply to
>> text fields.  The stack is very large (1.8MB) as it does some very intense
>> calculations, but you're welcome to give it a try.
> 
> Cute. But I see far more applications for this than just text. For
> example, applying the effect to photos of unpopular politicians could be
> very satisfying.

Good idea.

Actually, the description was intended more as Sunday geek humor on my part.
There's no special calculations going on nor does the effect have anything
to do with text fields.  The stack just shows some fun with windowshapes.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From Mike at Doub.com  Sun Oct 23 19:05:29 2005
From: Mike at Doub.com (Mike Doub)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:05:29 -0400
Subject: Targeting Paint tools at a specific grouped image
Message-ID: <000601c5d826$43515e10$6400a8c0@fusion>

Hello all,

I am trying to create a set of controls that is made up of a few fields and
an image.  I am doing this inside of another group that is set up to manage
the scrolling.  I must be doing something wrong as any time I go to edit the
image a new image is created the same size as the card. 

Here is the jist of my script where i is the name of the control being
created passed in from an outer loop:

  create group i in group "+scroll"
   
  create field "Name" in group i
  set the width of it to 80
  set the height of it to 16
  set the topleft of it to the topleft of graphic "scrollarea"
  set the opaque of it to false
  set the showborder of it to false
  put i & ":" into field "Name" of group i
  set the textstyle of it to "bold"
  set the textalign of it to "left"
   
  create field "Skill" in group i
  set the width of it to 80
  set the height of it to 16
  set the topleft of it to the bottomleft of field "Name"
  set the opaque of it to false
  set the showborder of it to false
  set the textalign of it to "right"
   
  create image i in group i
  set the showborder of it to true
  set the width of it to (MonthCount * monthwidth)
  set the height of it to (SkillCount * monthheight)
  set the topleft of it to the topright of field "Name" of group i
   

-- everything works fine up to here

  set the itemdel to comma
  put the topleft of it into xy
  put item 1 of the topleft of it + 1 into tr_x
  put item 2 of the topleft of it + 1 into tr_y
  choose rectangle tool
  set the filled to true
  set the penColor to "white"
  select image i of group i
  drag from tr_x,tr_y to tr_x+monthwidth,tr_y+monthheight
-- this drag seems to be the one creating the unwanted image
  set the filled to false
  set the penColor to "black"
  drag from trx,try to trx+monthwidth,try+monthheight


Can someone explain to me how to go about editing a specific image and not
having this overlay image being created?

Thanks
  Mike





From robertum at brturbo.com  Sun Oct 23 19:11:37 2005
From: robertum at brturbo.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:11:37 -0200
Subject: How trim?
Message-ID: <435C18A9.9070301@brturbo.com>

On 23 Oct 2005, Dave Cragg (<dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk>) wrote:

 >Is there a requirement for the solutions to be one liners?

--------------
No, but it would be nice. Originally, I looked in the Help for 
equivalents to the simple Basic functions e.g. LTrim$(MyString$), 
RTrim$(MyString$), and Trim$(MyString$) and was surprised not to be able 
to find them.

In VB, I use these functions all the time, so I am a bit mystified at 
the apparent lack of desperate need for simple-syntax built-in functions 
on the part of experienced RR programmers. I certainly need this very 
much in the RR stack I am writing at the moment.

Who knows, we might see statements like the following in future versions 
of RR:

put the LTrim(32,202,160) of myVar1 into myVar2
put the Trim(32) of myVar1 into field "Label1"

In the scheme above, ANY characters could be trimmed, not just the 
whitespace.

Of course, such build-in functions would take into consideration the 
interesting points (related to speeed, accuracy, etc.) that you have all 
so enthusiastically raised.

Bob


From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Oct 23 19:55:52 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:55:52 -0400
Subject: Text Field Effect
In-Reply-To: <BF816339.2366A%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF816339.2366A%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <b4eebfa24613e9f400fa8b2def28fc42@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 23, 2005, at 6:56 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Actually, the description was intended more as Sunday geek humor on my 
> part.
> There's no special calculations going on nor does the effect have 
> anything
> to do with text fields.  The stack just shows some fun with 
> windowshapes.

That's too funny. This note came in just as I was about to say "you're 
joking around, right?"

Still, a cool demo that shows other ways that windowShapes can be 
exploited. Thanks.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 23 20:53:18 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 17:53:18 -0700
Subject: How trim?
In-Reply-To: <435C18A9.9070301@brturbo.com>
Message-ID: <BF817E8E.2F767%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Hi, Bob,
> put the LTrim(32,202,160) of myVar1 into myVar2
> put the Trim(32) of myVar1 into field "Label1"
> 
> Of course, such build-in functions would take into consideration the
> interesting points (related to speeed, accuracy, etc.) that you have all
> so enthusiastically raised.
-- coming is a long explanation and a working example of back scripts

Rev is really designed to be a tool box for developers to refine their own
solutions and the community shares these results.  On one hand, the task
might be the occasional string to trim, or on the other, a massive list from
a network log file.  In your case, you would rather have the flexible
version that allowed you to pass the ASII number(s), so you could roll your
own with the help of the list.

After building what you want, decide if it is to be available every time you
run Rev, or only for your intended audience with your app.  If only for your
app, copy and paste the functions from a place you store them, into the main
stack script.  Now LTrim(ascii, ascii, ascii) will work every time the way
you wish.

Read about back scripts, which are available after messages pass the stack
level. Below is an example of adding a 'mouseup' script to the Rev back
scripts and removing it again.  Paste this code into a new button on a new
main stack and watch how it will auto-toggle.

ANY open stack in Rev will trigger the 'mouseup' back script, unless you
trap it.
Test == make second new main stack, click on the card and you will get an
error.
Close and remove from memory > the stack that created the script, and Rev
will delete the back script from the list.

Hope this helps you understand a bit more about a development environment

Jim Ault
Las Vegas
Building a car with a wrench, and a hammer, and a good idea.
Making it fly with imagination and lots of time.

------------------- copy start here (careful of word wrap)
--button script, no need to name the button
--notice -- inserts into Back Script as FIRST in the list
on mouseUp
  
  if the long id of me is in the backscripts then
    remove the script of me from back
    answer the backscripts
    answer "BACK SCRIPT INactive "& RETURN & \
"now ONLY the button will respond to the mouseUp and run this handler"
    answer "clicking the button again will reACTIVATE the card mouseup"
    
  else
    insert the script of me into back
    answer the backscripts
    answer "BACK SCRIPT ACTIVE "& RETURN & \
"now the card will respond to the mouseUp and run this handler"
    answer "clicking the card and running this script will remove this
behaviour"
    
  end if
end mouseUp
----------------- end copy
On 10/23/05 4:11 PM, "Bob Warren" <robertum at brturbo.com> wrote:

> On 23 Oct 2005, Dave Cragg (<dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk>) wrote:
> 
>> Is there a requirement for the solutions to be one liners?
> 
> --------------
> No, but it would be nice. Originally, I looked in the Help for
> equivalents to the simple Basic functions e.g. LTrim$(MyString$),
> RTrim$(MyString$), and Trim$(MyString$) and was surprised not to be able
> to find them.
> 
> In VB, I use these functions all the time, so I am a bit mystified at
> the apparent lack of desperate need for simple-syntax built-in functions
> on the part of experienced RR programmers. I certainly need this very
> much in the RR stack I am writing at the moment.
> 
> Who knows, we might see statements like the following in future versions
> of RR:
> 
> put the LTrim(32,202,160) of myVar1 into myVar2
> put the Trim(32) of myVar1 into field "Label1"
> 
> In the scheme above, ANY characters could be trimmed, not just the
> whitespace.
> 
> Of course, such build-in functions would take into consideration the
> interesting points (related to speeed, accuracy, etc.) that you have all
> so enthusiastically raised.
> 
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Oct 23 21:04:08 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:04:08 -0500
Subject: How trim?
In-Reply-To: <435C18A9.9070301@brturbo.com>
Message-ID: <BF819D38.2E6C5%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/23/05 6:11 PM, "Bob Warren" <robertum at brturbo.com> wrote:

> On 23 Oct 2005, Dave Cragg (<dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk>) wrote:
> 
>> Is there a requirement for the solutions to be one liners?
> 
> --------------
> No, but it would be nice. Originally, I looked in the Help for
> equivalents to the simple Basic functions e.g. LTrim$(MyString$),
> RTrim$(MyString$), and Trim$(MyString$) and was surprised not to be able
> to find them.
> 
> In VB, I use these functions all the time, so I am a bit mystified at
> the apparent lack of desperate need for simple-syntax built-in functions
> on the part of experienced RR programmers. I certainly need this very
> much in the RR stack I am writing at the moment.

Yes, I was surprised as well, since the xTalk languages I'd been using
didn't have them either and the other languages (VB included) did, so I was
hoping that MetaCard (this was before it became Revolution) would have it.

However I must admit I've had to craft a few functions for VB that I was
surprised *it* didn't have one-liners for as well, so I guess it kind of
goes both ways.

> Who knows, we might see statements like the following in future versions
> of RR:
> 
> put the LTrim(32,202,160) of myVar1 into myVar2
> put the Trim(32) of myVar1 into field "Label1"

Actually, if they implemented it, it'd probably be more syntactically
correct as:

  put LTrim(myVar1,space,numToChar(202),numToChar(160)) into myVar2
  put Trim(myVar1,space) into field "Label1"

but either way, it would be very beneficial to have them. Bob, if you've
used Bugzilla or RevZilla before, perhaps you can log those in as requested
enhancements? If you haven't used them, let me know offlist and I'll log the
enhancements for you.


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Oct 23 22:19:36 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:19:36 -0500
Subject: Text Field Effect
In-Reply-To: <BF816339.2366A%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF816339.2366A%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <435C44B8.6050500@hyperactivesw.com>

Scott Rossi wrote:
> Recently, J. Landman Gay  wrote:
> 
> 
>>>I just posted a stack that demonstrates an unusual effect you can apply to
>>>text fields.  The stack is very large (1.8MB) as it does some very intense
>>>calculations, but you're welcome to give it a try.
>>
>>Cute. But I see far more applications for this than just text. For
>>example, applying the effect to photos of unpopular politicians could be
>>very satisfying.
> 
> 
> Good idea.
> 
> Actually, the description was intended more as Sunday geek humor on my part.
> There's no special calculations going on nor does the effect have anything
> to do with text fields.  The stack just shows some fun with windowshapes.

Yeah, I know. I should have added a smiley to my comment. Was trying to 
extend the mystery. :)

Doesn't seem to matter what you craft though, it is always pretty 
impressive.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Oct 24 01:04:13 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 07:04:13 +0200
Subject: Help with image effect
In-Reply-To: <435BDB86.7010601@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <20051024043155.2D60D824F1A@mail.runrev.com>

Alex, 

Great effect!!!

Strange, my portable PC 1.6Ghz is faster than my 3Ghz PC ;)

3Ghz = smooth transition
1.6Ghz = instantaneous...

what you could do is test the function to see how much time it takes.
Given that, increment or decrement the number of transitions...

Also a percentage increase in size may look smoother but that's just
a habit and it may slow down things...

Last bit, that would be cool, is to switch layers so that the zoomed
image becomes the top image in the middle of the transition ;)

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Alex Tweedly
> Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 8:51 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Help with image effect
> 
> 
> I want a nice, simple (?) visual effect:
> 
>  I have two images (which may be different sizes), and I want 
> to swap them over (such that each one stretches or shrinks to 
> occupy the space previously taken up by the other one).
> 
> I thought this would be simple ... loop some number of times, 
> adjusting the "rect" of each image - then find a suitable 
> "wait" value to slow it down.
> 
> In fact, it is unbearably slow - even for medium sized images 
> (320*240 swapping with a 320*480) each step is clearly visible.
> For 2 images of 160*120 it's almost a smooth animation - I'm 
> not sure if it's just that they are smaller sizes, or if it's 
> the fact that the sizes remain the same.  (all on medium 
> laptop - Pentium P4 2.8G with low-end ATI graphics)
> 
> It does look OK on a top of the range Pentium laptop with 
> ATI92xx graphics (my wife needs high-end hardware to play 
> Sims :-), but that's not exactly typical hardware yet.
> 
> Is there some other way I should be approaching this ?
> 
> > on imageSwap pImg1, pImg2, pNumber
> >   local r1, r2
> >   local dtlx, dtly, dbrx, dbry
> >  
> >   if paramCount() < 3 then
> >     put 20 into pNumber
> >   end if
> >  
> >   put the rect of img pImg1 into r1
> >   put the rect of img pImg2 into r2
> >    
> >   put (item 1 of r2 - item 1 of r1)/20 into dtlx
> >   put (item 2 of r2 - item 2 of r1)/20 into dtly
> >   put (item 3 of r2 - item 3 of r1)/20 into dbrx
> >   put (item 4 of r2 - item 4 of r1)/20 into dbry
> >    
> >   repeat with i = 1 to pNumber
> >     set the rect of img pImg1 to trunc(item 1 of r1 + i*dtlx), 
> > trunc(item 2 of r1 + i*dtly), trunc(item 3 of r1 + i*dbrx), 
> trunc(item
> > 4 of r1 + i*dbry)
> >     set the rect of img pImg2 to trunc(item 1 of r2 - i*dtlx), 
> > trunc(item 2 of r2 - i*dtly), trunc(item 3 of r2 - i*dbrx), 
> trunc(item
> > 4 of r2 - i*dbry)
> >   end repeat
> > end imageSwap
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -- 
> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net
> 
> 
> 
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/146 - Release 
> Date: 21/10/2005
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From robertum at brturbo.com  Mon Oct 24 03:04:38 2005
From: robertum at brturbo.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 05:04:38 -0200
Subject: How trim?
Message-ID: <435C8786.5080109@brturbo.com>

Thanks very much indeed Jim! I'll certainly follow that up.
I'm sure your example of back scripts will also be useful to other 
less-experienced users. They may also learn from my own cries for help 
(pending)......

Best regards,
Bob
----------------------------------
On 23 Oct 2005, Jim Ault <JimAultWins at yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi, Bob,

 >> put the LTrim(32,202,160) of myVar1 into myVar2
 >> put the Trim(32) of myVar1 into field "Label1"
 >>
 >> Of course, such built-in functions would take into consideration the
 >> interesting points (related to speeed, accuracy, etc.) that you have all
 >> so enthusiastically raised.

-- coming is a long explanation and a working example of back scripts

Rev is really designed to be a tool box for developers to refine their own
solutions and the community shares these results.  On one hand, the task
might be the occasional string to trim, or on the other, a massive list from
a network log file.  In your case, you would rather have the flexible
version that allowed you to pass the ASII number(s), so you could roll your
own with the help of the list.

After building what you want, decide if it is to be available every time you
run Rev, or only for your intended audience with your app.  If only for your
app, copy and paste the functions from a place you store them, into the main
stack script.  Now LTrim(ascii, ascii, ascii) will work every time the way
you wish.

Read about back scripts, which are available after messages pass the stack
level. Below is an example of adding a 'mouseup' script to the Rev back
scripts and removing it again.  Paste this code into a new button on a new
main stack and watch how it will auto-toggle.

ANY open stack in Rev will trigger the 'mouseup' back script, unless you
trap it.
Test == make second new main stack, click on the card and you will get an
error.
Close and remove from memory > the stack that created the script, and Rev
will delete the back script from the list.

Hope this helps you understand a bit more about a development environment

Jim Ault
Las Vegas
Building a car with a wrench, and a hammer, and a good idea.
Making it fly with imagination and lots of time.

------------------- copy start here (careful of word wrap)
--button script, no need to name the button
--notice -- inserts into Back Script as FIRST in the list
on mouseUp

   if the long id of me is in the backscripts then
     remove the script of me from back
     answer the backscripts
     answer "BACK SCRIPT INactive "& RETURN & \
"now ONLY the button will respond to the mouseUp and run this handler"
     answer "clicking the button again will reACTIVATE the card mouseup"

   else
     insert the script of me into back
     answer the backscripts
     answer "BACK SCRIPT ACTIVE "& RETURN & \
"now the card will respond to the mouseUp and run this handler"
     answer "clicking the card and running this script will remove this
behaviour"

   end if
end mouseUp
----------------- end copy
On 10/23/05 4:11 PM, "Bob Warren" <robertum at brturbo.com> wrote:


 >> On 23 Oct 2005, Dave Cragg (<dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk>) wrote:
 >>
 >
 >>>> Is there a requirement for the solutions to be one liners?
 >
 >>
 >> --------------
 >> No, but it would be nice. Originally, I looked in the Help for
 >> equivalents to the simple Basic functions e.g. LTrim$(MyString$),
 >> RTrim$(MyString$), and Trim$(MyString$) and was surprised not to be able
 >> to find them.
 >>
 >> In VB, I use these functions all the time, so I am a bit mystified at
 >> the apparent lack of desperate need for simple-syntax built-in functions
 >> on the part of experienced RR programmers. I certainly need this very
 >> much in the RR stack I am writing at the moment.
 >>
 >> Who knows, we might see statements like the following in future versions
 >> of RR:
 >>
 >> put the LTrim(32,202,160) of myVar1 into myVar2
 >> put the Trim(32) of myVar1 into field "Label1"
 >>
 >> In the scheme above, ANY characters could be trimmed, not just the
 >> whitespace.
 >>
 >> Of course, such built-in functions would take into consideration the
 >> interesting points (related to speeed, accuracy, etc.) that you have all
 >> so enthusiastically raised.
 >>
 >> Bob
 >> _______________________________________________


From david at openpartnership.net  Mon Oct 24 07:59:32 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 13:59:32 +0200
Subject: On Getting My Money Five Bucks at a Time
In-Reply-To: <4741845D-5BC5-4F39-A7A6-5B85533D8BF7@danshafer.com>
References: <4741845D-5BC5-4F39-A7A6-5B85533D8BF7@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <48F3CD98-3E1D-4D0A-B6D4-AC70EAAC9D01@openpartnership.net>

On 21 Oct 2005, at 20:59, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Subscription models -- which didn't exist then, of course -- that  
> offer, for a relatively low-priced product like Constellation or  
> even a moderately low priced product like Revolution, enhancements,  
> updates and add-ons at small incremental charges (encompassed in  
> the subscription but available for extra fees for non-subscribers)  
> seems to me to have the best promise for a solid business model for  
> software, especially for developers and hard-core users. And I  
> think the MaxThink model proves that point.

I agree totally Dan, most of these hybird business models (based on  
open - release early / release often projects) will migrate to a  
subscription model. For me this model will not be credit card based  
as we know it presently. Yes many people will pay fo rtheir  
subscriptions by using their credit card, but in fact they will be  
buying a secure digital currency with which they can pay for small  
services (lowering their transaction costs). Other developers without  
the spare cash may opt to pay for the services they require by  
contributing to someone else's project / product. If you have enough  
of this currency you may wish to cash it in (redeem) in return for  
hard currency, or simply invest it in new product development.

There are a number of succesful businesses built on issueing digital  
currencies within a business-to-business environment -  
www.bartercard.com to take one example (here have also been a large  
number of failures).

Their are actually two currencies that we will be offering to the Rev  
community - "pixls" and "shards".  Pixls are a true community  
currency which will not initially have a hard cash value, but we hope  
a number of developers and companies will accept for payment of their  
services. Shards are effectively digital shares in a speculative  
software development. We are using them internally with our own  
development.

We are effectively creating a community currency for complex project  
collaboration. The aim is to marry these techniques with open source  
development to create and new form of business model that sits  
between true open source collaboration, and proprietary software  
application development. The business model aims to create a  
sustainable flow of open source tools and services based on ideas  
that have been floating around for a number of years (ransomware and  
the task market to take two examples). Once the development costs  
have been paid or a specified period of time has elapsed the code is  
released as open source. The legal ownership of the market place  
would be held in common by the community of developers - in the style  
of Visa International - see "The Birth of the Chaordic Age by Dee  
hock - founder of Visa and Visa International.

Those of you that may be interested in collaborating in this area, or  
want to know more about how we are structuring this from a technical  
or legal perspective, please feel free to contact me off list.

From markgreenberg at cox.net  Mon Oct 24 08:29:50 2005
From: markgreenberg at cox.net (Mark Greenberg)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 05:29:50 -0700
Subject: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine
In-Reply-To: <20051024002438.9FB1D824F67@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051024002438.9FB1D824F67@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B9FC65BB-369A-4919-ADF6-9171FB5FCA0F@cox.net>

Jim,
     The book I mentioned, Mastering Regular Expressions by Jeffrey  
E. F. Friedl, is an ultra-detailed explanation of Regular  
Expressions.  It describes two types of engines, one which rewrites  
the expressions before execution and one that doesn't.  Friedl spends  
probably forty or fifty pages on the topic of greediness and  
laziness.  He includes examples of parsing HTML and email strings.   
He lists all the special RegEx characters, most of which are not  
mentioned in our Rev docs.
     Naturally, he did not get into how to use RegEx in Rev.  I've  
used it a great deal in my stacks, and here's what I've found.  At  
first it takes some getting used to treating the Regular Expression  
as a string.  Friedl's examples from various languages that  
incorporate RegEx show the expressions as part of the larger  
language, or at least not as a quoted string.  That gives us the  
flexibility, however, of easily substituting anything that resolves  
to a string in Rev, like constants, variables, and concatenated strings.
     The other main issue is that Rev does not support all the fine  
nuances of Perl-style RegEx, though the docs say it does.  I don't  
remember the details, but I ran into problems trying to use look- 
around features, for instance.  I've come to the conclusion that I  
should try a simple version of what I want first in the Message Box,  
then put it into my script.
     It would fill a hole in the docs if we could come up with a list  
of what works and what doesn't in Rev's version of Regular  
Expressions.  Since so few of us seem to use it, simple examples of  
how to employ MatchText and ReplaceText would be very helpful.  I'd  
be glad to work with you on this.  Keep in mind though that I do this  
on the side, and sometimes my teaching job keeps me from my hobby of  
"playing" with Rev.  : )  Contact me off-list if you wish about this.

         Mark Greenberg

On Oct 23, 2005, at 5:24 PM, Jim Ault wrote:

> My work is basically surface level application and is largely
> trial-and-error using BBEdit to see what different expressions will  
> yield on
> a group of similar strings.
>
> I thought that 'greediness' was to produce the longest possible  
> match, and
> the 'ungreedy (?U)' command was to have regex resolve to the  
> shortest match.
> For me, the use of symbols in sequence has remained somewhat of a  
> mystery
> since the grep engine works in more than one direction throughout a  
> string.
>
> I would like to understand this particular issue a bit better, so I  
> might do
> a conditioned test where 'regex(flavor)|string>result' would simply  
> be a
> table of results based on common tasks.
>
> Perhaps we could compile a list of examples and alternatives.  The  
> reason I
> am interested is that I am using the MatchText, etc to parse some  
> web page
> data, and there can always be unexpected results.  The nature of my  
> project
> means that I really want to avoid the unexpected.
>
> Grepping html or other code is always more of a challenge than  
> plain English
> prose or database tables.



From catventure at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Oct 24 08:53:11 2005
From: catventure at yahoo.co.uk (Philip Richmond)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 13:53:11 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Text Adventure in Rev?
Message-ID: <20051024125312.81485.qmail@web25404.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hello,

I'm new here and just downloaded the trial of
Revolution + some tutorials from the main site.
I've done some coding in LibertyBasic and IBasic and
prior to that with AmigaBasic and AMOSBasic. I'm very
impressed with what I've seen in the package already
and it got me thinking... Wonder if it's possible to
do a text adventure creator project using Rev. A bit
like those old Infocom, Level 9, Zork type interactive
fiction games...
Maybe add sfx and gfx too. I did write such an app in
a very early version of LibertyBASIC.
The player would input a command into a one line text
field and then after processing/parsing the game text
would be output to a multiline textbox with a scroll.
I kind of envision it working pretty much the same in
Rev.
I've worked out how to put text after existing text in
such an object but what I need to know is how do I
check that the text to be output/shown does not exceed
the maxnum of lines in the viewable area of the text
control? For instance if 20 lines are viewable and 36
lines of text are set to be put there how can I
display the max of 20 lines, print a message like 
"Press Any Key To Continue" and after the player makes
a keypress then show the remaining 16 lines of text
before asking for another player input?? Anyone ever
tried this or got any ideas on how to fathom it? Is it
going to be difficult or can it be done fairly easily?
I would welcome any advice or pointers to a solution.

Thanks,
Phil.



		
___________________________________________________________ 
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From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Mon Oct 24 09:35:39 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:35:39 -0400
Subject: database
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968311@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

Rob...

What motivates you to create such a beast for free? Surely it took an
enormous amount of work for you?

How does serendipity compare on speed to database programs written in
C++?


Take care,

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Rob Cozens
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 10:38 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: database

Hi Pascal,

>my interest now is in databases (I mean relational database without
using 
>SQL.) and  I'm looking for, and not finding any example of databases
build 
>with Revolution. I mean something that looks like a FileMaker or a 4D
product.
>Is ther any example on Revolution web site, or other ?

I have scripted a hierarchical, binary-tree database in Transcript which
is 
open-source and royalty-free.  Relational indexes are NOT built in, but 
must be created and maintained individually.

Serendipity Database--Binary (SDB) is available for download at 
<http://wecode.org/serendipity/>.  The download includes client and
server 
software for multiuser operation, stacks for automated testing &
examples, 
and reference stacks...along with Serendipity Library.  Also included
are 
RAD tools for adding SDB support to existing Rev stacks and creating 
database data dictionary record descriptions from existing stacks.

SDB offers:

         * A native Transcript database engine running on all platforms 
supported by Revolution with NO modification

         * Standalone and client/server operation with the same front
end 
(the later including automatic & specific record locking)

         * Multi-lingual and user-translatable capabilities (shipping
with 
support for Dutch, English, French, German & Spanish)

Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
  Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

  from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)  

_______________________________________________
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use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
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From devinasay at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 10:10:14 2005
From: devinasay at gmail.com (Devin Asay)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 08:10:14 -0600
Subject: Pause in an audio recording?
In-Reply-To: <p06110400bf7dc5b30929@[136.142.55.61]>
References: <p06110400bf7dc5b30929@[136.142.55.61]>
Message-ID: <E387CD91-4EA2-445C-AA94-6A26E84EB560@byu.edu>

Claire,

There isn't a way to do this that I know of.

Devin

On Oct 20, 2005, at 5:20 PM, Claire Bradin Siskin wrote:

> Dear Folks,
>
> With the help of gurus like Devin Asay and Trevor DeVore, I have  
> been able to make some nifty Rev stacks that allow language  
> learners to record audio files to submit to their instructors.
>
> Now the instructors would like the students to be able to pause the  
> recording while it is in progress and then continue. I can make a  
> recording and then play, pause and resume it after the player is  
> created, but I haven't been able to figure out how to pause the  
> recording and resume recording the same file without losing the  
> first part. Is there a way to pause a recording within Rev?
>
> TIA,
>
> Claire
> -- 
> Claire Bradin Siskin
> Director
> Robert Henderson Language Media Center
> G 17 Cathedral of Learning
> University of Pittsburgh
> Pittsburgh, PA  15260
> Office Phone: (412) 624-5939
> Email: cbsiskin at pitt.edu
> http://www.polyglot.pitt.edu
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University



From lynn at paradigmasoft.com  Mon Oct 24 10:26:05 2005
From: lynn at paradigmasoft.com (Lynn Fredricks)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 07:26:05 -0700
Subject: database
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968311@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <1081958525-183802880@lindbergh.macserve.net>

> What motivates you to create such a beast for free? Surely it 
> took an enormous amount of work for you?
> 
> How does serendipity compare on speed to database programs written in
> C++?

 Jonathan,

I don't know how he could seriously answer your question. Valentina 2 is
usually several multiples faster than other C/C++ based databases, so it's
like comparing a footrace with five different star ships, "system based" and
faster-than-light versions.

If speed is a concern at all, anything that is not compiled to machine code
isnt going to work for you. If all you are going to do is store a thousand
records locally and you don't need lightning speed, just about anything will
work for you. It just wont grow very fast.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software, Inc

Joining Worlds of Information

Deploy True Client-Server Database Solutions
Royalty Free with Valentina Developer Network
http://www.paradigmasoft.com







From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Mon Oct 24 10:37:48 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:37:48 +0200
Subject: database
In-Reply-To: <1081958525-183802880@lindbergh.macserve.net>
Message-ID: <OF7455A038.5646DAA7-ONC12570A4.004FE523-C12570A4.00505D6D@deutsche-boerse.com>

Not to say Lynn is wrong but if a database is well organized in terms of 
functionality, it can beat the
pants of a compiled database which woudl suffocate with too much 
information. 

Call it the space-folding starship... 

Before valentina existed, i had to port a database from a PC to Macs for a 
professional product.
Some 700000 records with relational links on which FileMaker just 
choked...

It took HC 3 days to import the data but after that it was 2 seconds 
access even on a CDROM...
But preparing the information was paramount for this trick which we can't 
all afford... 

Surely if i had Valentina then, i could have said it choked on that many 
records... ;) And any 
database can be tuned for optimum performance one way or another for 
specific data sets...

The free stuff usually takes longuer to develop though ;)

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 24/10/2005 16:26:05:

> > What motivates you to create such a beast for free? Surely it 
> > took an enormous amount of work for you?
> > 
> > How does serendipity compare on speed to database programs written in
> > C++?
> 
>  Jonathan,
> 
> I don't know how he could seriously answer your question. Valentina 2 is
> usually several multiples faster than other C/C++ based databases, so 
it's
> like comparing a footrace with five different star ships, "system based" 
and
> faster-than-light versions.
> 
> If speed is a concern at all, anything that is not compiled to machine 
code
> isnt going to work for you. If all you are going to do is store a 
thousand
> records locally and you don't need lightning speed, just about anything 
will
> work for you. It just wont grow very fast.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Lynn Fredricks
> President
> Paradigma Software, Inc
> 
> Joining Worlds of Information
> 
> Deploy True Client-Server Database Solutions
> Royalty Free with Valentina Developer Network
> http://www.paradigmasoft.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



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From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Oct 24 10:39:57 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 15:39:57 +0100
Subject: Text Adventure in Rev?
In-Reply-To: <20051024125312.81485.qmail@web25404.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <20051024125312.81485.qmail@web25404.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <435CF23D.3020006@tweedly.net>

Philip Richmond wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I'm new here and just downloaded the trial of
>Revolution + some tutorials from the main site.
>  
>
Welcome. You've found a good place :-)

>The player would input a command into a one line text
>field and then after processing/parsing the game text
>would be output to a multiline textbox with a scroll.
>I kind of envision it working pretty much the same in
>Rev.
>  
>
That sounds easily do-able.

>I've worked out how to put text after existing text in
>such an object but what I need to know is how do I
>check that the text to be output/shown does not exceed
>the maxnum of lines in the viewable area of the text
>control? For instance if 20 lines are viewable and 36
>lines of text are set to be put there how can I
>display the max of 20 lines, print a message like 
>"Press Any Key To Continue" and after the player makes
>a keypress then show the remaining 16 lines of text
>before asking for another player input?? Anyone ever
>tried this or got any ideas on how to fathom it? Is it
>going to be difficult or can it be done fairly easily?
>I would welcome any advice or pointers to a solution.
>
>  
>
Advice: don't do it that way. Make it a scrollable text field, put your 
36 lines into it, leave it positioned so the top of the field is visible 
- and then let the user scroll the field to read the rest of it when she 
is ready. The scrollbar will make it clear there is more there to be 
read - and nowadays everyone is familiar with scrollbars, and can choose 
the means they prefer (arrow key vs. page-down key vs click in scroll 
area vs scroll wheel vs ....) to scroll as they wish.

Pointer to a solution: check in the docs for "formattedHeight"
Note you can do something like
     get the formattedHeight of line 1 to 16 of field "OutputText".

But use the advice not the pointer :-) :-)

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/147 - Release Date: 24/10/2005



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Mon Oct 24 10:35:55 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:35:55 -0400
Subject: database
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A974464C@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

I am sure a Rev-based database is not as fast - but if the speed is good
enough, then it has the advantage of being written in transcript -
meaning Rev developers can make all sorts of modifications very easily.
I can see how this would be very useful.

And there are some things that Rev does that are really quite fast,
despite being scripted.

I guess it just depends on what you need.

I plan on buying Valentina, by the way, - it is what I want for my
Christmas present!

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Fredricks
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 10:26 AM
To: 'How to use Revolution'
Subject: RE: database

> What motivates you to create such a beast for free? Surely it 
> took an enormous amount of work for you?
> 
> How does serendipity compare on speed to database programs written in
> C++?

 Jonathan,

I don't know how he could seriously answer your question. Valentina 2 is
usually several multiples faster than other C/C++ based databases, so
it's
like comparing a footrace with five different star ships, "system based"
and
faster-than-light versions.

If speed is a concern at all, anything that is not compiled to machine
code
isnt going to work for you. If all you are going to do is store a
thousand
records locally and you don't need lightning speed, just about anything
will
work for you. It just wont grow very fast.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software, Inc

Joining Worlds of Information

Deploy True Client-Server Database Solutions
Royalty Free with Valentina Developer Network
http://www.paradigmasoft.com





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use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From sunshine at public.kherson.ua  Mon Oct 24 10:58:37 2005
From: sunshine at public.kherson.ua (Ruslan Zasukhin)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:58:37 +0300
Subject: database
In-Reply-To: <OF7455A038.5646DAA7-ONC12570A4.004FE523-C12570A4.00505D6D@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <BF82D14D.408B6%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>

On 10/24/05 5:37 PM, "xavier.bury at clearstream.com"
<xavier.bury at clearstream.com> wrote:

> Not to say Lynn is wrong but if a database is well organized in terms of
> functionality, it can beat the
> pants of a compiled database which woudl suffocate with too much
> information. 
> 
> Call it the space-folding starship...
> 
> Before valentina existed, i had to port a database from a PC to Macs for a
> professional product.
> Some 700000 records with relational links on which FileMaker just
> choked...
> 
> It took HC 3 days to import the data but after that it was 2 seconds
> access even on a CDROM...

When you say: 2 seconds access. You NEED to say for which operation.

EXACT VALUE SEARCH:         WHERE fld = 55
is 100-1000 times more easy than RANGE search  WHERE fld > 55

Even FileMaker can do EXACT search very fast. Really, this is just few steps
in the b-tree. No miracle here.

But if you do RANGE search again 2 cases:

    * few records found
    * almost all records found.

Most dbs in second case start think very long.
RANGE search is where Valentina shines.

BTW, SqlLite do not search all records never. They just search first record
which satisfy RANGE search, and stop. When you do NEXT record they do search
next one.  They can do this only because they have claim: we are single used
db. This is why it is not possible right _correct_ server around SqlLite. It
can return few correct results, but also incorrect.

> But preparing the information was paramount for this trick which we can't
> all afford... 
 
> Surely if i had Valentina then, i could have said it choked on that many
> records... ;) 

Nope. :-)
This is tiny db for Valentina. Again story which I love.

Marco did have 28 million records in table (20Gb db). Valentina did answer
in 0.2 seconds. On hardware as MAC G3 or G4 it seems.

IMHO problem will all such home-made dbs is that developer have made it to
solve his tasks in one project. HE do not care about tasks which YOU can
meet in YOUR project.

Compare, To implement SQL92 in Valentina 2 have we have spend about 3
developer-years I think.


> And any database can be tuned for optimum performance one way or
> another for specific data sets...

Let me re-arrange this:

* for ANY db it is possible to develop more optimized structure
if "to think". :-) 

* but any db have own limit of power. Like a car or airplane.

-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]




From lynn at paradigmasoft.com  Mon Oct 24 11:07:00 2005
From: lynn at paradigmasoft.com (Lynn Fredricks)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 08:07:00 -0700
Subject: database
In-Reply-To: <OF7455A038.5646DAA7-ONC12570A4.004FE523-C12570A4.00505D6D@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <1081956069-183950230@lindbergh.macserve.net>

> Not to say Lynn is wrong but if a database is well organized 
> in terms of functionality, it can beat the pants of a 
> compiled database which woudl suffocate with too much information. 

Right, but what you are talking about here is a developer skill issue more
than anything. Its even easier for the tortoise to beat the hare if the hare
has been drinking margaritas all day long :-)

> Call it the space-folding starship... 
> 
> Before valentina existed, i had to port a database from a PC 
> to Macs for a professional product.
> Some 700000 records with relational links on which FileMaker 
> just choked...

No surprise there.

> It took HC 3 days to import the data but after that it was 2 
> seconds access even on a CDROM...
> But preparing the information was paramount for this trick 
> which we can't all afford... 

Right, it depends on what you are trying to do and what you need. But I
think any statement of 2 seconds needs to be clarified -- 2 seconds
to...what? Search 700,000 records and return what kind of information and
how?

> Surely if i had Valentina then, i could have said it choked 
> on that many records... ;) And any database can be tuned for 
> optimum performance one way or another for specific data sets...

Like the hare above, if you feed him margaritas all day first, sure. But
that many records isnt a challenge to Valentina unless its been hobbled.

> The free stuff usually takes longuer to develop though ;)

I think this is a dangerous sort of generalization. 

Many early mac power users back in the pre-PPC days learned that you could
store data inside a resource fork. It worked very well and very fast to
access small amounts of data. But, the resource fork wasn't designed for
that purpose, so you eventually run into limits. And, resource forks really
werent designed to work in the world of databases, so scaling up from such a
solution, when you needed to, was a problem.

With products like Revolution, you have a very useful metaphor for dealing
with data that can do almost any kind of user interaction. But why press it
into doing something when some other tool is better suited and therefore,
you produce a superior and more flexible end result?

Another comparison: there was a very interesting series of articles in
Photoshop User magazine in which the writer created a really detailed 3D
looking picture of a bar, all using photoshop skills. Cool, and okay, you
can achieve such things over a course of a very long time. But, I could have
a 3D guy do that in hours in comparision, and, if I didn't like the angle, I
can turn the camera in the 3D scene and rerender -- while the Photoshop guy
would probably have to recreate the entire scene. Is the Photoshop artist's
time worth x15 less than that of the 3D guy? If so, refer him to me, I have
some work for him to do at sub-minimum wage.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software, Inc

Joining Worlds of Information

Deploy True Client-Server Database Solutions
Royalty Free with Valentina Developer Network
http://www.paradigmasoft.com







From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Mon Oct 24 11:24:11 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:24:11 -0400
Subject: database
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968313@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

Hi Lynn...

Just curious... How many customers have bought Valentina? How many
RunRev users have bought some version of Valentina?

Take care,

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Fredricks
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:07 AM
To: 'How to use Revolution'
Subject: RE: database

> Not to say Lynn is wrong but if a database is well organized 
> in terms of functionality, it can beat the pants of a 
> compiled database which woudl suffocate with too much information. 

Right, but what you are talking about here is a developer skill issue
more
than anything. Its even easier for the tortoise to beat the hare if the
hare
has been drinking margaritas all day long :-)

> Call it the space-folding starship... 
> 
> Before valentina existed, i had to port a database from a PC 
> to Macs for a professional product.
> Some 700000 records with relational links on which FileMaker 
> just choked...

No surprise there.

> It took HC 3 days to import the data but after that it was 2 
> seconds access even on a CDROM...
> But preparing the information was paramount for this trick 
> which we can't all afford... 

Right, it depends on what you are trying to do and what you need. But I
think any statement of 2 seconds needs to be clarified -- 2 seconds
to...what? Search 700,000 records and return what kind of information
and
how?

> Surely if i had Valentina then, i could have said it choked 
> on that many records... ;) And any database can be tuned for 
> optimum performance one way or another for specific data sets...

Like the hare above, if you feed him margaritas all day first, sure. But
that many records isnt a challenge to Valentina unless its been hobbled.

> The free stuff usually takes longuer to develop though ;)

I think this is a dangerous sort of generalization. 

Many early mac power users back in the pre-PPC days learned that you
could
store data inside a resource fork. It worked very well and very fast to
access small amounts of data. But, the resource fork wasn't designed for
that purpose, so you eventually run into limits. And, resource forks
really
werent designed to work in the world of databases, so scaling up from
such a
solution, when you needed to, was a problem.

With products like Revolution, you have a very useful metaphor for
dealing
with data that can do almost any kind of user interaction. But why press
it
into doing something when some other tool is better suited and
therefore,
you produce a superior and more flexible end result?

Another comparison: there was a very interesting series of articles in
Photoshop User magazine in which the writer created a really detailed 3D
looking picture of a bar, all using photoshop skills. Cool, and okay,
you
can achieve such things over a course of a very long time. But, I could
have
a 3D guy do that in hours in comparision, and, if I didn't like the
angle, I
can turn the camera in the 3D scene and rerender -- while the Photoshop
guy
would probably have to recreate the entire scene. Is the Photoshop
artist's
time worth x15 less than that of the 3D guy? If so, refer him to me, I
have
some work for him to do at sub-minimum wage.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software, Inc

Joining Worlds of Information

Deploy True Client-Server Database Solutions
Royalty Free with Valentina Developer Network
http://www.paradigmasoft.com





_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Oct 24 11:35:45 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 08:35:45 -0700
Subject: database
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968311@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov
 >
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968311@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20051024075401.01eb8118@pop3.pon.net>

Hi Joanthan,

>What motivates you to create such a beast for free? Surely it took an
>enormous amount of work for you?

SDB was originally created in HyperTalk about 15 years ago.  I was working 
with a San Francisco winery supplier and Fresno State College professor of 
vitaculture on the forerunner of OenoLog.  We had purchased Answer 
Software's HyBase engine, a 4th generation db designed to back-end 
HyperCard, when Serge Grenier posted "Networking HyperCard Stacks" to the 
HyperCard Mailing List.

Seeing how simple it was (conceptually, if not in implementation) and 
desirous of (a) being able to modify and augment the db engine supporting 
our application and (b) freeing our project from royalty obligations, we 
abandoned HyBase and I scripted SDB's original version.

My reasons for making SDB open source and royalty-free are:

* I'm in the business applications software business, not the database/RAD 
tool business.

* It is my hope that others will use it and broaden the range of real-world 
testing and evaluation of SDB; thus strengthening my applications that rely 
upon it

* As with Serendipity Library in general, which was available to the 
HyperCard community B.R. (Before Revolution), SDB is my humble contribution 
to the xTalk community which has given much to me over the years.

I believe there is a real need for a db engine that integrates totally with 
Transcript and is free of non-essential baggage such as data typing & data 
dictionaries.  I believe that, like the original HyperCard, allowing people 
to use and poke around inside SDB at no risk (ie; cost) is a better way of 
gaining acceptance within the community than mounting a sales effort for a 
for-cost product.

>How does serendipity compare on speed to database programs written in
>C++?

I have done no head-to-head comparisons.  I will note that although SDB's 
design looks to maxiize processor efficiency, speed has never been the 
overriding goal.  Most db's I work with contain less than 20,000 records, 
and the speed I'm seeing (eg: retrieve one record out of 40,000 by key 
value in < 1 second on a G4 iMac wirh medium clock & RAM) is adequate.  If 
the C++ db engine is accessing a disk-based db, SDB has the advantage (and 
attendent RAM requirements on the server) of maintaining the entire db in 
RAM.  Finally, the index searching is currently basic binary, and could be 
redesigned to incorporate industrial-strength B-Tree indexing if the 
present performance isn't adequate.

Rob Cozens

"I must be the change I want to see in the world."

  -- Gandhi 



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 24 11:56:18 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:56:18 +0200
Subject: long (?) filenames in players
Message-ID: <97056F67-C4FF-462B-8B9D-46F01118E1D1@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

big problem :-/

I have some MP3 files in this folder:
/Volumes/Ablage/RRMC etc Hilfe/Bajasch/

The filenames are (including the numbers!):

1. Et weed Naach in K?lle.mp3
2. Freu Dich am Levve.mp3
3. Lo? mer noch jet blieve.mp3
4. K?lle un die P?nz.mp3
5. Immer op de Kleine.mp3
6. Samba met echte K?lsche T?n.mp3
7. Loss mer noch e Schlockche drinke.mp3
8. De Zick vun h?ck.mp3
10. K?lle ming Stadt.mp3
11. Schnaps.mp3

I already applied Mark W.s tip for "the long filename" bug with:
set the filename of player "songs" to "///Volumes..."

(I hope i understod this workaround correctly!?
set the filename of player x to "file:///Volumes..."
...dDoes not work at all!?)

But some songs (4, 6 and 7 actually) will not open in the player:

Result: -> Could not open movie file

Song nr. 4 does have 2 Umlauts in the name.
And nr. 6 and 7 do have more than 32 characters in their filename

All files open and play fine in QTPlayer of course (?)

Any hints are very welcome!

Or is this bad ol' bug nr. 396?
Or am I doing something obviously stupid? ;-)


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Oct 24 12:02:39 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:02:39 -0500
Subject: Text Adventure in Rev?
In-Reply-To: <435CF23D.3020006@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <BF826FCF.2E734%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/24/05 9:39 AM, "Alex Tweedly" <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:

> Advice: don't do it that way. Make it a scrollable text field, put your
> 36 lines into it, leave it positioned so the top of the field is visible
> - and then let the user scroll the field to read the rest of it when she
> is ready. The scrollbar will make it clear there is more there to be
> read - and nowadays everyone is familiar with scrollbars, and can choose
> the means they prefer (arrow key vs. page-down key vs click in scroll
> area vs scroll wheel vs ....) to scroll as they wish.

Well, if I remember adventure text games correctly, I think it would be more
like a console - i.e. text scrolls up, with the most recent entry at the
bottom, and the oldest at the top (scrolled out of view).

To do that, you would do something like this:

on AddToConsole pText
  if field "AdventureText" is empty then
    put pText into field "AdventureText"
  else
    put CR & pText after field "AdventureText"
    put the formattedHeight of field "AdventureText" into tFHT
    put the height of field "AdventureText" into tHT
    set the scroll of field "AdventureText" to (tFHT - tHT)
  end if
end AddToConsole

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Mon Oct 24 12:00:45 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:00:45 -0400
Subject: database
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A974464D@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

Very cool!

More of that community spirit stuff that I find so admirable.

If you keep the entire DB in RAM, then do you have to save the entire DB
when you do a save, or can you save just one record?

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Rob Cozens
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:36 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: RE: database

Hi Joanthan,

>What motivates you to create such a beast for free? Surely it took an
>enormous amount of work for you?

SDB was originally created in HyperTalk about 15 years ago.  I was
working 
with a San Francisco winery supplier and Fresno State College professor
of 
vitaculture on the forerunner of OenoLog.  We had purchased Answer 
Software's HyBase engine, a 4th generation db designed to back-end 
HyperCard, when Serge Grenier posted "Networking HyperCard Stacks" to
the 
HyperCard Mailing List.

Seeing how simple it was (conceptually, if not in implementation) and 
desirous of (a) being able to modify and augment the db engine
supporting 
our application and (b) freeing our project from royalty obligations, we

abandoned HyBase and I scripted SDB's original version.

My reasons for making SDB open source and royalty-free are:

* I'm in the business applications software business, not the
database/RAD 
tool business.

* It is my hope that others will use it and broaden the range of
real-world 
testing and evaluation of SDB; thus strengthening my applications that
rely 
upon it

* As with Serendipity Library in general, which was available to the 
HyperCard community B.R. (Before Revolution), SDB is my humble
contribution 
to the xTalk community which has given much to me over the years.

I believe there is a real need for a db engine that integrates totally
with 
Transcript and is free of non-essential baggage such as data typing &
data 
dictionaries.  I believe that, like the original HyperCard, allowing
people 
to use and poke around inside SDB at no risk (ie; cost) is a better way
of 
gaining acceptance within the community than mounting a sales effort for
a 
for-cost product.

>How does serendipity compare on speed to database programs written in
>C++?

I have done no head-to-head comparisons.  I will note that although
SDB's 
design looks to maxiize processor efficiency, speed has never been the 
overriding goal.  Most db's I work with contain less than 20,000
records, 
and the speed I'm seeing (eg: retrieve one record out of 40,000 by key 
value in < 1 second on a G4 iMac wirh medium clock & RAM) is adequate.
If 
the C++ db engine is accessing a disk-based db, SDB has the advantage
(and 
attendent RAM requirements on the server) of maintaining the entire db
in 
RAM.  Finally, the index searching is currently basic binary, and could
be 
redesigned to incorporate industrial-strength B-Tree indexing if the 
present performance isn't adequate.

Rob Cozens

"I must be the change I want to see in the world."

  -- Gandhi 

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Oct 24 12:15:25 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:15:25 +0200
Subject: database
In-Reply-To: <BF82D14D.408B6%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>
Message-ID: <20051024154225.40BC78250FC@mail.runrev.com>

no offense. no boasting...

I did the relational lookup in FMP, and it took minutes!

So I opted for a double-linked-list of records (this was a hierarchical
database - the relations were previously based on a parent id but searching
this was horribly slow...

So I made the search implicit by pre-creating the fetch index to the 
information. The relational didn't become flat but almost... 

The DBF database this came from originally was just as fast... Which tells
you lots about how macs were seen by the guy who hired me... 

Im sure it wouldn't compete in the real world though, then again for a
minimal
functionality DB it did work wonders and it hardly used any xternals ;)

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Ruslan Zasukhin
> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 4:59 PM
> To: use-revolution
> Subject: Re: database
> 
> On 10/24/05 5:37 PM, "xavier.bury at clearstream.com"
> <xavier.bury at clearstream.com> wrote:
> 
> > Not to say Lynn is wrong but if a database is well 
> organized in terms 
> > of functionality, it can beat the pants of a compiled 
> database which 
> > woudl suffocate with too much information.
> > 
> > Call it the space-folding starship...
> > 
> > Before valentina existed, i had to port a database from a 
> PC to Macs 
> > for a professional product.
> > Some 700000 records with relational links on which FileMaker just 
> > choked...
> > 
> > It took HC 3 days to import the data but after that it was 
> 2 seconds 
> > access even on a CDROM...
> 
> When you say: 2 seconds access. You NEED to say for which operation.
> 
> EXACT VALUE SEARCH:         WHERE fld = 55
> is 100-1000 times more easy than RANGE search  WHERE fld > 55
> 
> Even FileMaker can do EXACT search very fast. Really, this is 
> just few steps in the b-tree. No miracle here.
> 
> But if you do RANGE search again 2 cases:
> 
>     * few records found
>     * almost all records found.
> 
> Most dbs in second case start think very long.
> RANGE search is where Valentina shines.
> 
> BTW, SqlLite do not search all records never. They just 
> search first record which satisfy RANGE search, and stop. 
> When you do NEXT record they do search next one.  They can do 
> this only because they have claim: we are single used db. 
> This is why it is not possible right _correct_ server around 
> SqlLite. It can return few correct results, but also incorrect.
> 
> > But preparing the information was paramount for this trick which we 
> > can't all afford...
>  
> > Surely if i had Valentina then, i could have said it choked on that 
> > many records... ;)
> 
> Nope. :-)
> This is tiny db for Valentina. Again story which I love.
> 
> Marco did have 28 million records in table (20Gb db). 
> Valentina did answer in 0.2 seconds. On hardware as MAC G3 or 
> G4 it seems.
> 
> IMHO problem will all such home-made dbs is that developer 
> have made it to solve his tasks in one project. HE do not 
> care about tasks which YOU can meet in YOUR project.
> 
> Compare, To implement SQL92 in Valentina 2 have we have spend 
> about 3 developer-years I think.
> 
> 
> > And any database can be tuned for optimum performance one way or 
> > another for specific data sets...
> 
> Let me re-arrange this:
> 
> * for ANY db it is possible to develop more optimized 
> structure if "to think". :-) 
> 
> * but any db have own limit of power. Like a car or airplane.
> 
> --
> Best regards,
> 
> Ruslan Zasukhin
> VP Engineering and New Technology
> Paradigma Software, Inc
> 
> Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information http://www.paradigmasoft.com
> 
> [I feel the need: the need for speed]
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From lynn at paradigmasoft.com  Mon Oct 24 12:11:38 2005
From: lynn at paradigmasoft.com (Lynn Fredricks)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:11:38 -0700
Subject: database
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968313@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <1081952191-184183647@lindbergh.macserve.net>

> Just curious... How many customers have bought Valentina? How 
> many RunRev users have bought some version of Valentina?

We just launched Valentina 2 for Revolution at RevCon, so not huge volumes
yet. It replaces Valentina 1.x XCMD. We've had solutions available for
Director, C++, REALbasic, COM, Java, etc for much longer, and Valentina 2.x
based solutions for Director and REALbasic pretty much since we launched
Valentina 2.x.

I cant go into specifics about numbers since we have competitors that would
love to know exact figures. I can tell you though that one of our top
customers represents about 50,000 user seats, and counting. We have several
clients that deploy multiuser solutions to US public school districts.
Segments of the auto industry use it to get out catalogs of cars to car
dealerships.

All Nikon digital cameras ship with a CD including Picture Project, and
Picture Project Mac Version is powered by Valentina. The reasons are simple:
allows for very high volume at great speeds, built in features for graphics
apps, and very reliable for shipping products to international markets, like
Japan. Support is available in English, German, Japanese, Italian, Russian
and, we are about to add Portugese.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software, Inc

Joining Worlds of Information

Deploy True Client-Server Database Solutions
Royalty Free with Valentina Developer Network
http://www.paradigmasoft.com





From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Mon Oct 24 12:23:38 2005
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:23:38 +0200
Subject: How trim?
Message-ID: <435D0A8A.3080007@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005, Jim Ault <JimAultWins at yahoo.com> wrote:

> snip)
> Rev is really designed to be a tool box for developers to refine their own
> solutions and the community shares these results.  On one hand, the task
> might be the occasional string to trim, or on the other, a massive 
> list from
> a network log file.  In your case, you would rather have the flexible
> version that allowed you to pass the ASII number(s), so you could roll 
> your
> own with the help of the list.
>
> After building what you want, decide if it is to be available every 
> time you
> run Rev, or only for your intended audience with your app.  If only 
> for your
> app, copy and paste the functions from a place you store them, into 
> the main
> stack script.  Now LTrim(ascii, ascii, ascii) will work every time the way
> you wish.
>
> Read about back scripts, which are available after messages pass the stack
> level.
> (snip)
> Hope this helps you understand a bit more about a development environment


I might add one aspect to this discussion, although rather late:

There is one type of applications where you urgently need a trim 
function, namely: educational software that requires text input from the 
learner.
It happens very often here that the user inadvertently hits the spacebar 
and creates leading and/or trailing spaces whereas the other portion of 
his input may be correct.
He then gets a "wrong" as a feedback and is very much puzzled about what 
he really did wrong.

One of the first XTalk languages - "HyperPad", the first DOS clone of 
Hypercard about 15 years ago - indeed possessed such a handy function, 
i.e. "trim()" was part of the language.

As in other XTalk languages like Toolbook, Metacard, and eventually 
Revolution such a function was missing, the solution "we" used here 
often was

 "repeat until first char of tInput <> space
    delete first char of tInput
  end repeat
  repeat until last char of tInput  <> space
    delete last char of tInput
  end repeat"

which scriptwise is rather simple and easy to understand. At least it is 
easier to understand and apply than Regex expressions, especially for 
Xtalk novices.

Regards,

Wilhelm Sanke
<http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>




From mlange at lexicall.org  Mon Oct 24 12:13:34 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:13:34 +0100
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 25, Issue 65
In-Reply-To: <20051018203531.7655E82533D@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051018203531.7655E82533D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3D4A6E57-31F4-4A1F-8704-B11BAFAC86EC@lexicall.org>

Hi Todd,

Why not have a transparent button over your graphic? (two objects  
from the program point of view, but the user never get to notice this)

Marielle

> I have created some Arrows and Triangles etc, using Rev's drawing  
> tools.
> They are graphic controls. I would like to add them as Icons to  
> buttons.  SO
> I need to turn them into "images" right?
>
> So can I just 'import snapshot' from the rectangle of the graphic?
>
> Thanks
>
> Todd
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 24 13:39:24 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:39:24 +0200
Subject: long (?) filenames in players
In-Reply-To: <97056F67-C4FF-462B-8B9D-46F01118E1D1@major-k.de>
References: <97056F67-C4FF-462B-8B9D-46F01118E1D1@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <330C943D-4A6A-43A2-B412-077FC9319711@major-k.de>

Hi revolutionists,

> Hi friends,
>
> big problem :-/
>
> I have some MP3 files in this folder:
> /Volumes/Ablage/RRMC etc Hilfe/Bajasch/
> ...
> Any hints are very welcome!
>
> Or is this bad ol' bug nr. 396?
> Or am I doing something obviously stupid? ;-)

further testings showed the following:

1. I did not use the correct syntax with the workaround for loooong  
filenames
in players!

The correct syntax in a script should be (this is a option button):

on menupick was
   put "file:///Volumes/Ablage/RRMC etc Hilfe/Bajasch/" & was into fn
   replace " " with "%20" in fn
   ## THAT did the trick!!!!
   ## Had to open the song in my browser to see it ;-)

   set the filename of player "songs" to fn
end menupick

2. This works with loooooong filenames, but NOT with any UMLAUTS
in the filename (long or short) :-/

Mark, any chance to get this fixed soon?
I am living in the mother country of UMLAUTS!
Not to forget the french and their accents etc...
So this is a real showstopper!


3. OT: The Rev mailserver does funny things like sending my post 3  
times to this list ;-)

a. Already deleted the first post...
b. from mail.runrev.com (mail.runrev.com [67.15.129.26]) by  
mailin.webmailer.de (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j9OG8mmR026547 for  
<klaus at major-k.de>; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:08:49 +0200 (MEST)
c. from mail.runrev.com (mail.runrev.com [67.15.129.26]) by  
mailin.webmailer.de (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j9OGjOCl023196 for  
<klaus at major-k.de>; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:45:25 +0200 (MEST)


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From mlange at lexicall.org  Mon Oct 24 13:44:27 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:44:27 +0100
Subject: Pre-Fab Profile Set?
Message-ID: <0DB6F6A7-D691-4F9F-BDA5-EA36CD4B424A@lexicall.org>

>> Is the desire for such a tool prevalent enough to translate into a  
>> working tool?
>>

David Bovill wrote:


> Well due to the lack of "stack granularity" in my work - it is a  
> little hard to share right now - but the tools were actually built  
> a couple of years ago. Right now like you I see the problem as a  
> mix of "social" but also "tool level". So the first tasks for me are:
>
>     1) Get a few people working and and maintaining the same wiki
>     2) Integrating the wiki into the Rev environment
>     3) Getting the social and business incentives right - see  
> "ransom" discussion earlier on the list.
>
> Given that i guess the CVS / subversion tools with the object /  
> handler chunking would have something to be built upon. This  
> effectively means building a "market mechanism" for re-useable  
> components - stacks and more granular if needed. The focus is to  
> reduce the cost (in terms of productivity as well as real cash) for  
> aquiring and using these components.
>
> The idea is to use a secure digital currency that you can earn and  
> use to pay others to work on your projects. You would be able to  
> buy and possibly later sell this currency, if you did not have the  
> time to earn it. When the ransom for a feature / component was paid  
> the resulting code would be released open source.
>

Dan Shafer wrote:

> I've been doing a lot of thinking and exploring the issue of code/ 
> component reuse in Rev the last week or so. Yeah, I know; I really  
> need to get out more.
>
> It occurred to me that Profiles, which are designed to deal with  
> the need for various versions of a stack/app in different languages  
> and with different OS deployments, are probably the "right" (i.e.,  
> Rev-preferred) way to deal with the few but sticky cross-platform  
> issues we face all the time such as fonts. Then it occurred to me  
> to wonder if anyone has written a sort of pre-fab set of profiles  
> that could be integrated into a Rev app so that the fonts, field  
> spacing and other issues that crop up from time to time would be  
> handled semi-automagically at runtime.
>

Funny, I have been working on this this week. Very happy with the  
results.

Construction of a visual interface in a xul/laslzo way.
One document that gives information about the way basic rev controls  
need to be drawn (within rev)
Another document that gives information about how the widgets defined  
into a xul kind of file translate to rev controls. I used the word  
widget rather than control because you can define elements that  
correspond to a group of controls rather than a single one (for  
instance, have a "go url" button that goes to the url defined in a  
neighboring text box).
Another document that defines the visual interface and where each  
widget should appear on the screen.

Defaults are defined at each level. They are overwritten at the next  
level. Very easy localisation. Very easy access to data stored in a  
xml file or a sql database.

To clarify. File 1 (rev controls properties) is development  
environment dependent. But File 2 and 3 are DE independent. You only  
need to rewrite File 1 (and the libraries that understand how to draw  
controls given the properties defined in this file) to carry your  
full application over another environment.



> Has anyone done such a thing? Any ideas for approaching this?  
> Anyone want to offer to provide something like this? I don't have a  
> current need for it but it seems to me that it could almost become  
> a requisite part of any new app I write that's destined for multi- 
> platform deployment.
>

David (Bovill) is playing with similar ideas. Xavier too at another  
level.

Can we create a working group? I am interested in collaboration but  
not in making everything widely available right now.

Marielle
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org





From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Oct 24 12:52:43 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:52:43 -0700
Subject: long (?) filenames in players
In-Reply-To: <97056F67-C4FF-462B-8B9D-46F01118E1D1@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <BF825F6B.2372E%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Klaus Major  wrote:

> big problem :-/
> 
> I have some MP3 files in this folder:
> /Volumes/Ablage/RRMC etc Hilfe/Bajasch/
> ... 
> I already applied Mark W.s tip for "the long filename" bug with:
> set the filename of player "songs" to "///Volumes..."
> 
> (I hope i understod this workaround correctly!?
> set the filename of player x to "file:///Volumes..."
> ...dDoes not work at all!?)

Did you also apply the space character fix?

 replace space with "%20" in the filepath of the file

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 24 13:53:41 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:53:41 -0700
Subject: How trim?
In-Reply-To: <435D0A8A.3080007@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <BF826DB5.2F7A3%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Thanks for the input, Wilhelm.  You wrote:
<snip>
> It happens very often here that the user inadvertently hits the spacebar
> and creates leading and/or trailing spaces whereas the other portion of
> his input may be correct.

 >( simpler scripting loops are good.)  At least (they are)
> easier to understand and apply than Regex expressions, especially for
> Xtalk novices. 
<snip>
I was thinking about functions that would handle things that were a little
more difficult for repeat loops, such as
-embedded multiple  spaces    where you are expecting one
-pattern recognition to correct user input, eg
-plurals, 
-abbreviations, 
-commas vs periods [email and urls ]
->        http://me,com >   http://me.com
-"/" vs "\"

Further
Using the Rev 'filter' lines command, as well as matchText, replaceText, etc
<from the docs showing 'with' and 'without' >
filter myVariable with "A?2"
filter me without "*[a-zA-Z]*"
filter field 22 with "[0-9]*"
filter field "Sorted Lines" with "[" & mySelection & "]"
--> and how to filter words and items as well as lines in a container

Any ideas that would help you?

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 10/24/05 9:23 AM, "Wilhelm Sanke" <sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de> wrote:

> On Sun, 23 Oct 2005, Jim Ault <JimAultWins at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> snip)
>> Rev is really designed to be a tool box for developers to refine their own
>> solutions and the community shares these results.  On one hand, the task
>> might be the occasional string to trim, or on the other, a massive
>> list from
>> a network log file.  In your case, you would rather have the flexible
>> version that allowed you to pass the ASII number(s), so you could roll
>> your
>> own with the help of the list.
>> 
>> After building what you want, decide if it is to be available every
>> time you
>> run Rev, or only for your intended audience with your app.  If only
>> for your
>> app, copy and paste the functions from a place you store them, into
>> the main
>> stack script.  Now LTrim(ascii, ascii, ascii) will work every time the way
>> you wish.
>> 
>> Read about back scripts, which are available after messages pass the stack
>> level.
>> (snip)
>> Hope this helps you understand a bit more about a development environment
> 
> 
> I might add one aspect to this discussion, although rather late:
> 
> There is one type of applications where you urgently need a trim
> function, namely: educational software that requires text input from the
> learner.
> It happens very often here that the user inadvertently hits the spacebar
> and creates leading and/or trailing spaces whereas the other portion of
> his input may be correct.
> He then gets a "wrong" as a feedback and is very much puzzled about what
> he really did wrong.
> 
> One of the first XTalk languages - "HyperPad", the first DOS clone of
> Hypercard about 15 years ago - indeed possessed such a handy function,
> i.e. "trim()" was part of the language.
> 
> As in other XTalk languages like Toolbook, Metacard, and eventually
> Revolution such a function was missing, the solution "we" used here
> often was
> 
>  "repeat until first char of tInput <> space
>     delete first char of tInput
>   end repeat
>   repeat until last char of tInput  <> space
>     delete last char of tInput
>   end repeat"
> 
> which scriptwise is rather simple and easy to understand. At least it is
> easier to understand and apply than Regex expressions, especially for
> Xtalk novices.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Wilhelm Sanke
> <http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Oct 24 14:01:23 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:01:23 -0700
Subject: database
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A974464D@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov
 >
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A974464D@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20051024105353.01e30b00@pop3.pon.net>

Jonathan,

>If you keep the entire DB in RAM, then do you have to save the entire DB
>when you do a save, or can you save just one record?

The entire db must be saved to disk, which is done automatically whenever 
the last user logs out.  I have contemplated adding a "save" command to 
SDB's vocabulary so developers would have more control over saving to 
disk.  In the meantime, it's assumed any mission-critical SDB application 
would include battery backup at the server.

Another possibility is to add a log file so one could lose nothing more 
than the last transaction if the system goes down.

Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
  Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

  from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) 



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Oct 24 14:05:20 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:05:20 -0700
Subject: long (?) filenames in players
In-Reply-To: <330C943D-4A6A-43A2-B412-077FC9319711@major-k.de>
References: <97056F67-C4FF-462B-8B9D-46F01118E1D1@major-k.de>
	<330C943D-4A6A-43A2-B412-077FC9319711@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <2DB17C23-05FA-497B-8E55-E4BA66EF2C15@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 24, 2005, at 10:39 AM, Klaus Major wrote:
> 2. This works with loooooong filenames, but NOT with any UMLAUTS
> in the filename (long or short) :-/
>
> Mark, any chance to get this fixed soon?
> I am living in the mother country of UMLAUTS!
> Not to forget the french and their accents etc...
> So this is a real showstopper!

Until this is fixed maybe you could put the URL in a SMIL file and  
load that.  Perhaps this way QT would be handling the filename and  
would do the right thing.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Oct 24 14:09:42 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:09:42 -0700
Subject: Pre-Fab Profile Set?
In-Reply-To: <0DB6F6A7-D691-4F9F-BDA5-EA36CD4B424A@lexicall.org>
References: <0DB6F6A7-D691-4F9F-BDA5-EA36CD4B424A@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <4FA33398-6063-4CB4-839E-1176187EFEEF@danshafer.com>

I'd be up for that, Marielle. I can set up and host a group on one of  
my servers if you like or we can go the Yahoo groups route which  
several other Rev-related groups have done but which I find sort of  
moderately distasteful.

Dan

On Oct 24, 2005, at 10:44 AM, Marielle Lange wrote:

> Can we create a working group? I am interested in collaboration but  
> not in making everything widely available right now.
>



From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Oct 24 14:23:00 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:23:00 -0700
Subject: database
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20051024111558.01e2e5b8@pop3.pon.net>

Hi again Joanthan,

>What motivates you to create such a beast for free?

Second answer...which I just recalled:

The HyperTalk version of SDB was single-user.  I got around to writing PPC 
(program-to-program communications) toolbox Xthings; but never could 
successfully test a client/server version.

So when Jan Schenkel formed the Rev IPC group, I promised the group if they 
would provide me with a working IPC library, I would release client/server 
SDB open source.

Rob Cozens, CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"Prolonging the hour of astonishment..."



From heather at runrev.com  Mon Oct 24 14:26:41 2005
From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Nagey)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:26:41 +0100
Subject: Free Icons with Revolution until 1st November
Message-ID: <a5b3d6551acb75e927a4adfc3f924ec2@runrev.com>

Runtime Revolution Bundles IconPeople Valerian Icons Free for New and
Upgrade Customers.

October 24, 2005. Runtime Revolution, Ltd and IconPeople, a label of 
Meshbox Design, announce the bundling of IconPeople Valerian, a $99 
value, free with all purchases of new copies and upgrades of Runtime 
Revolution from today through November 1, 2005.

Valerian icon set (normally $99) is a set of 80 icons designed for 
cross-platform applications on MacOS, Windows and Linux. The icons can 
be used royalty free for software and web design projects. For 
additional information about Valerian or other icon sets from 
IconPeople, visit http://www.iconpeople.com.

To buy a Revolution license, visit http://www.runrev.com/store.php

To receive this time limited offer, enter the coupon code MFICON80 in 
the coupon code box at the foot of the checkout screen of the online 
store, when purchasing any Revolution license type.

Not applicable with any other offer. Strictly time limited, coupon is 
only valid until midnight on November 1st, 2005.

Warm Regards

Kevin Miller, CEO Runtime Revolution Ltd



From david at openpartenrship.net  Thu Oct 20 10:40:16 2005
From: david at openpartenrship.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:40:16 +0200
Subject: Multilingual dialogues
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.1.20051020072914.01f043f0@pop3.pon.net>
References: <OFFA038656.16483DFE-ONC125709F.003DF45D-C125709F.003E8025@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<EDF71046-E753-4234-9CFF-D883EA0033D7@openpartenrship.net>
	<6.2.1.2.1.20051020072914.01f043f0@pop3.pon.net>
Message-ID: <944B2208-4BCA-4B49-9EA7-6BC723FF7804@openpartenrship.net>

Thought I' keep the question simple :)

> Why focus on dialog-specific logic instead of generic, stack-wide  
> multilingual capabilities?

Also - text in fields I've sort of half done generically. With the  
ask and answer dialogues - well I usually have the text in scripts  
and based on recent questions not sure how they handle international  
text - so there are more issues.

Had a go with the Profile Manager - but not managed to get it to work  
reliably....


From david at openpartenrship.net  Thu Oct 20 10:48:08 2005
From: david at openpartenrship.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:48:08 +0200
Subject: Geometry - setting from script
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.1.20051020072914.01f043f0@pop3.pon.net>
References: <OFFA038656.16483DFE-ONC125709F.003DF45D-C125709F.003E8025@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<EDF71046-E753-4234-9CFF-D883EA0033D7@openpartenrship.net>
	<6.2.1.2.1.20051020072914.01f043f0@pop3.pon.net>
Message-ID: <8864FF69-63FD-4DA2-AFB6-5080A48F356F@openpartenrship.net>

If I have a group that resizes nicely using the geometry manager -  
say it fills the whole card - but now I want to shrink it to occupy a  
smaller size on the card (and the geometry manager to continue  
resizing the group proportionally).... how to do?

I have read about "revCacheGeometry" - which I think should do the  
job after shrinking the group - but how to shrink the group to a new  
rect in the same way that resizing the stack by hand would do?


From david at openpartenrship.net  Thu Oct 20 15:33:58 2005
From: david at openpartenrship.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:33:58 +0200
Subject: Multilingual dialogues
In-Reply-To: <4B60340F-377C-4EF3-A7A3-95FA3C0AB706@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <OFFA038656.16483DFE-ONC125709F.003DF45D-C125709F.003E8025@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<EDF71046-E753-4234-9CFF-D883EA0033D7@openpartenrship.net>
	<4B60340F-377C-4EF3-A7A3-95FA3C0AB706@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <B4619C2D-8B10-4C6B-BBF4-C6AF0A5B412C@openpartenrship.net>


On 20 Oct 2005, at 17:03, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> You can simplify setting tooltips and field text values by using  
> code like this when a stack opens for the first time.  It just  
> looks for custom properties of controls that specify what key in  
> the language stack to use for that control.
>
> repeat with i = 1 to the number of cards of this stack
>     repeat with j = 1 to the number of controls of this stack
>         if the uLocale["tooltip"] of control j of card i of this  
> stack is not empty then
>             set the tooltip of control j of card i of this stack to \
>                 getString(the uLocale["tooltip"] of control j of  
> card i of this stack)
>         end if
>
>         if the uLocale["text"] of control j of card i of this stack  
> is not empty then
>             set the text of control j of card i of this stack to \
>                 getString(the uLocale["tooltip"] of control j of  
> card i of this stack)
>         end if
>     end repeat
> end repeat

Thanks - sounds good. And perhaps if all the language stacks were  
substacks of stack "Translations" or.... then it would be easy to add  
another translation and a script could automatically figure out how  
many were available?

> David - I've tried answering the email you sent me but it keeps  
> getting bounced.  I've tried a couple of accounts but I think I am  
> not on your spam list.

My provider was hacked earlier in the week - still recovering - email  
seems to be working now though?


From david at openpartenrship.net  Thu Oct 20 15:42:07 2005
From: david at openpartenrship.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:42:07 +0200
Subject: Constellation: any way to get equivalent of the selectedObject?
In-Reply-To: <971F401E-80C7-4B27-891C-BD5CF425AA52@daniels-mara.com>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>	<a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>	<CC443F5E-30AC-4233-B7A8-EDD2B45F0334@danshafer.com>
	<EE555764-36F5-4908-AD88-BA08667B8409@conncoll.edu>
	<435535EC.2020809@fourthworld.com>
	<4B7D9C22-6B46-40A4-8D9A-BBBF170D805F@conncoll.edu>
	<90A514A0-F870-4333-A829-8A6445DDA704@conncoll.edu>
	<E77BCBCD-7E71-49ED-B584-FBC2966B5715@openpartenrship.net>
	<971F401E-80C7-4B27-891C-BD5CF425AA52@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <47B6CB63-533E-47DA-B4FD-8A226579A8E5@openpartenrship.net>


On 20 Oct 2005, at 19:39, Jerry Daniels wrote:

> We USED TO select the object during no-click inspection--if the  
> pointer was chosen.

Recent version changed this right - kindo of liked it myself - now  
I'm still stuck as i cant....

> 1. The TITLE of Constellation's window has the full name of the  
> object you're editing.
> 2. The TAB that is dedicated to that object has the name of the object
> 3. The PREVIEW (or copy) of the object is shown
>
> We figured after all that, it wasn't necessary to select the object  
> during no-click inspection and risk the user forgetting that the  
> object WAS selected.
>
> Hope that helps.

Not really - you see I have an object selector / browser like yours  
just not as pretty :) I use it to "indicate an object" and then I can  
create other tools which manipulate the object in some way.

So for a clear example (thinking of writing a viral marketing program  
for you):

     1) I create a stack with one button and one field

     2) I "select" the "field in my new stack"  in constellation  
property or even script editor - the tab is open

     3) I write a script which references the selected object -  
ideally with a line like:

on mouseUp
         put the selected_ ConstellationObject into someObject
         set the script of someObject to "Jerry Daniels is cool!"
end mouseUp



From david at openpartenrship.net  Fri Oct 21 09:09:09 2005
From: david at openpartenrship.net (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:09:09 +0200
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <43583F3F.2050507@fourthworld.com>
References: <741fd030510201743v27fd40eeia15d42d1a7ffea96@mail.gmail.com>	<43583B87.4070508@fourthworld.com>
	<43583D81.609@tweedly.net> <43583F3F.2050507@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <9779CB3F-5AFE-404B-8228-C5A937AD0D4E@openpartenrship.net>

On 21 Oct 2005, at 03:07, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>> I'd suggest making it more like an index than a complete  
>> repository. Many people currently have Rev stacks available on  
>> their own web-sites, and will wish to continue to do so.  
>> Duplicating those stacks in some central repository places a  
>> burden on someone to keep it up to date. And it's easy to run a  
>> link-checker on an "index", but not easy to run an "is it up to  
>> date check" on stacks.
>> So by all means allow stacks to be put into the repository - but  
>> also allow for the (I suspect more common) case where the stack is  
>> already available on-line, and only a pointer to it is needed in  
>> the central place.
>>
>
> I think that's an excellent idea.   Very much like RevNet.

Well exactly like RevNet - no? And RevNet is much more useful as it  
is within the Rev envoronment! So yes - nice simple addition to  
publish these links on a page - but I'd still go on using RevNet.

On 21 Oct 2005, at 02:43, Ben Fisher wrote:

>  I propose that a central website be created, full of code from the  
> Rev
> universe. More structured than a wiki, files would be uploaded into
> categories and directories, but the whole database could be quickly
> searched. Most importantly, there would be a section composed of  
> tools and
> utilities all completely free and open source.

The poitn I think of the original post was to add new functionality  
that supports collaboration on "the same piece of code / cokponent".  
For me this must work within the Rev environment, and should be based  
around subversion (SVN) linked to a structured wiki like Trac or Jira.

> I know websites like this
> already exist, but it would be so much cooler if there were one
> authoritative Rev Source.

Getting the "authoritative " in there is the hard bit - especially  
without RunRev supporting a clear open source componenet strategy  
(along side commercial development of the product). Everyone is  
rolling their won - which the pragmatists say we should roll with -  
for me i am up for shaking this thing up a bit.

Ben - i would propose to you if you are interested to work out this  
code collaboration with a small group of people interested in open  
source collaboration - not the same as free to use stacks or plugins  
developed by a single author.

For me the best would be to work with Mr Daniels Constellation and  
provide open source plugins within that environment. To do that we  
need a plugin for plugins architecture - that is the internal  
workings of Constallation need to be revealed through an API -  
probably custom properties so that other plugins written by the rest  
of us can leverage the great work Jerry has done?






From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Oct 24 14:50:59 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:50:59 +0200
Subject: Help with image effect
In-Reply-To: <20051024043155.2D60D824F1A@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20051024181754.B37C3824F12@mail.runrev.com>

Alex

Here's the new script I made - note that now it's TAOO style ;)
It applies to any control's rect... And it swaps layers at some
point.
The third parameter is a bit improved and the layer switch couldn't
be smarter - no detection needed however it will switch one image's 
layer above anything else... That can be changed correctly with a 
bit more scripting...

What's TAOO about this handler? It handles any occasion! It was
improved, it's shared among the community for more ideas!

Results of tests with changing pNumber below because I noticed 
a big difference between a topnotch gaming PC and a portable that
I wasn't expecting...

on mouseUp
  imageswap the long name of img 1, the long name of img 2,fld 1
end mouseUp

on imageSwap pObj1, pObj2, pNumber
  local r1, r2
  local dtlx, dtly, dbrx, dbry
   
  if pnumber is not a number or pnumber < 3 then
    put 20 into pNumber
  end if
  
  put the rect of pObj1 into r1
  put the rect of pObj2 into r2
   
  put (item 1 of r2 - item 1 of r1)/pNumber into dtlx
  put (item 2 of r2 - item 2 of r1)/pNumber into dtly
  put (item 3 of r2 - item 3 of r1)/pNumber into dbrx
  put (item 4 of r2 - item 4 of r1)/pNumber into dbry
   
  repeat with i = 1 to pNumber
    if swaplayer <> true then
      if i > pnumber / 2 then
        set the layer of pObj1 to the layer of pObj2 + 1
        put true into swaplayer
      end if
    end if
    set the rect of img pObj1 to trunc(item 1 of r1 + i*dtlx), \
        trunc(item 2 of r1 + i*dtly), trunc(item 3 of r1 + i*dbrx),
trunc(item 4 of r1 + i*dbry)
    set the rect of img pObj2 to trunc(item 1 of r2 - i*dtlx), \
        trunc(item 2 of r2 - i*dtly), trunc(item 3 of r2 - i*dbrx),
trunc(item 4 of r2 - i*dbry)
  end repeat
end imageSwap 

Now, the info regarding optimizing this function. 

You cant! But you can get close...

Other than changing the pNumber or inducing timed updated (do a visual
change every x milliseconds). This gives a smooth timed transition based on
a time frame, irrelevant of CPU speed. Alas this doesn't work for slower
than slow cpus and may cause choppiness or lagged-draws.

Next, and entirely to my surprise, the gaming station compared to the
portable was not showing any "progress animation" until I set the pnumber to
240 otherwise, it was too fast!!! And that's with the correction for dtlx
and the other dtAB {where A=l|r, B=x|y}

Now that's 240 steps compared to 20 steps to make an animation smooth from
start to finish (in about a second) in my ultra-cooled (or it flips the
switch) "PC-workstation"! I spent 70EUs to cool this CPU 30 centigrades
below shutdown temperature...

Now, before I explain the next step, I must say that im not a gaming fan
anymore but I know LOTs about it because I always seek that virtual nirvana
which came at each release of DOOM, Quake 3, Doom 4 (which was awesome
graphics and physics wise but apparently Quake 4 sucks), and the most
virtual gut twisting Descent and Descent II games. Total 3D!

And swapping images is getting there because it gives you that perspective
animation!!! Castle Wolfenstein technology - before DOOM! 

But where this really took a whole new dimension is not with GTR
(simbin.com) game but Simbin's new GTL Legends which really puts GTR down a
category - and this is where I think PC's personal computing power put you
into the seat of Descent or GTL like it's real - OR NOT!!! But without a
million FPS (Frames per second) these games don?t do justice to their
capabilities on any PC, they can't draw fast enough - imagine RunRev without
3D or direct access to the graphic power in your hardware now... Yet my GTR
optimized PC is not enough for GTL!!! Now, lets explain how a 100+FPS Quake
3 or 70FPS GTR graphic station can do in rev! I couldn't animate more than
20 polygons smoothly in a moire on my previous PC maybe, I can do maybe 50
smoothly now with the new hardware (to be tested tonite!) yet this portable
goes faster!

Now I subjected my gaming station which did smoothly in the image swap even
at pnumber=20... The answer is simple in terms of gaming performance: FPS!
The more FPS = smoother animation. Less FPS = performance lag OR skipped
frames. And in the case of the portable, it's what I'd like to thing
happens. Maybe someone can correct me with that... im not confident in the
whole answer for the portable - the video card is definitely not faster than
my gaming station... 

BUT after a point where cpu performance = FPS (hopefully fast), the cpu
draws faster than the video card - unlike video games, this isn't synched
with the video refresh draw cycles in RunRev. So you have to induce the draw
at the number of FPS you want... Examples: Old Disney cartoons=12 FPS, NTSC
video = 25.x FPS, PAL(/secam?)=24.xFPS, computer's fastest redraw = the
number of hertz of your video card/monitor redraw mode... faster CPU draw =
flicker... slower draw = laag...

so how do you optimise this? You play the animation once to get the
cpu/refresh speed at a number of pnumber draws - which is equal to a number
of milliseconds... so the rest is drawing only within the number of cycles
you need to. So for 24 fps, you send a draw or wait for the number of
milliseconds to draw or (if millisecond mod (fps+-tolerance) is not your
redraw speed, then DRAW... 

Major tip: Don?t check for x more milliseconds after last redraw to draw,
check to the "time" to draw... This is the milliseconds mod drawtimeinFPM
(frames per ms).

Putting this into practice is the next step... which I leave as exercise...
for the cunning scripter... but it's not hard

repeat wathever
  wait x mod milliseconds
  change things timefactor by pnumber
  draw next step
end repeat

BTW, this is dear to my animation routine in MoireX Volume 2 - the rev
screen saver...

http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=160

but how many poligons can you get to move smoothly?

adding rotation ideas? swap and twist the object's rects? what if the
control is a movie and it's playing? ;)

anyone think rev should support opengl? How far can Rev take multimedia with
a simple idea?

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of MisterX
> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 7:04 AM
> To: 'How to use Revolution'
> Subject: RE: Help with image effect
> 
> Alex, 
> 
> Great effect!!!
> 
> Strange, my portable PC 1.6Ghz is faster than my 3Ghz PC ;)
> 
> 3Ghz = smooth transition
> 1.6Ghz = instantaneous...
> 
> what you could do is test the function to see how much time it takes.
> Given that, increment or decrement the number of transitions...
> 
> Also a percentage increase in size may look smoother but 
> that's just a habit and it may slow down things...
> 
> Last bit, that would be cool, is to switch layers so that the 
> zoomed image becomes the top image in the middle of the transition ;)
> 
> cheers
> Xavier
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Alex 
> > Tweedly
> > Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 8:51 PM
> > To: How to use Revolution
> > Subject: Help with image effect
> > 
> > 
> > I want a nice, simple (?) visual effect:
> > 
> >  I have two images (which may be different sizes), and I 
> want to swap 
> > them over (such that each one stretches or shrinks to 
> occupy the space 
> > previously taken up by the other one).
> > 
> > I thought this would be simple ... loop some number of times, 
> > adjusting the "rect" of each image - then find a suitable 
> "wait" value 
> > to slow it down.
> > 
> > In fact, it is unbearably slow - even for medium sized 
> images (320*240 
> > swapping with a 320*480) each step is clearly visible.
> > For 2 images of 160*120 it's almost a smooth animation - 
> I'm not sure 
> > if it's just that they are smaller sizes, or if it's the 
> fact that the 
> > sizes remain the same.  (all on medium laptop - Pentium P4 
> 2.8G with 
> > low-end ATI graphics)
> > 
> > It does look OK on a top of the range Pentium laptop with ATI92xx 
> > graphics (my wife needs high-end hardware to play Sims :-), 
> but that's 
> > not exactly typical hardware yet.
> > 
> > Is there some other way I should be approaching this ?
> > 
> > > on imageSwap pImg1, pImg2, pNumber
> > >   local r1, r2
> > >   local dtlx, dtly, dbrx, dbry
> > >  
> > >   if paramCount() < 3 then
> > >     put 20 into pNumber
> > >   end if
> > >  
> > >   put the rect of img pImg1 into r1
> > >   put the rect of img pImg2 into r2
> > >    
> > >   put (item 1 of r2 - item 1 of r1)/20 into dtlx
> > >   put (item 2 of r2 - item 2 of r1)/20 into dtly
> > >   put (item 3 of r2 - item 3 of r1)/20 into dbrx
> > >   put (item 4 of r2 - item 4 of r1)/20 into dbry
> > >    
> > >   repeat with i = 1 to pNumber
> > >     set the rect of img pImg1 to trunc(item 1 of r1 + i*dtlx), 
> > > trunc(item 2 of r1 + i*dtly), trunc(item 3 of r1 + i*dbrx),
> > trunc(item
> > > 4 of r1 + i*dbry)
> > >     set the rect of img pImg2 to trunc(item 1 of r2 - i*dtlx), 
> > > trunc(item 2 of r2 - i*dtly), trunc(item 3 of r2 - i*dbrx),
> > trunc(item
> > > 4 of r2 - i*dbry)
> > >   end repeat
> > > end imageSwap
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > -- 
> > Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/146 - Release
> > Date: 21/10/2005
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Mon Oct 24 15:01:30 2005
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:01:30 +0200
Subject: long (?) filenames in players
In-Reply-To: <330C943D-4A6A-43A2-B412-077FC9319711@major-k.de>
References: <97056F67-C4FF-462B-8B9D-46F01118E1D1@major-k.de>
	<330C943D-4A6A-43A2-B412-077FC9319711@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <ED541E36-6C4A-4BA4-AB35-B7E0CBB2304E@skynet.be>


Le 24-oct.-05 ? 19:39, Klaus Major a ?crit :

> Hi revolutionists,
>
>
>> Hi friends,
>>
>> big problem :-/
>>
>> I have some MP3 files in this folder:
>> /Volumes/Ablage/RRMC etc Hilfe/Bajasch/
>> ...
>> Any hints are very welcome!
>>
>> Or is this bad ol' bug nr. 396?
>> Or am I doing something obviously stupid? ;-)
>>
>
>

Hi Klaus,

What about
put unidecode(theFilePath,"UTF8") into theFilePath

should that work ?



Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be



From catventure at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Oct 24 15:00:40 2005
From: catventure at yahoo.co.uk (Philip Richmond)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:00:40 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Text Adventure in Rev?
In-Reply-To: <BF826FCF.2E734%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <20051024190040.64659.qmail@web25408.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hello,

Alex: It's nice to be a part of this community. I'm
looking forward to playing around with Rev to see what
I can sort... I can create the input textfield and the
game text textfield and used an 'on enterinfield'
event to get the player input when the player presses
the enter/return key in the field before emptying the
input textfield and printing a response in the larger
game textfield above. The focus then goes back to the
input textfield for the next player input... It's just
the scrolling that has me bamboozled. Thanks for your
reply.

Ken:

> on AddToConsole pText
>   if field "AdventureText" is empty then
>     put pText into field "AdventureText"
>   else
>     put CR & pText after field "AdventureText"
>     put the formattedHeight of field "AdventureText"
> into tFHT
>     put the height of field "AdventureText" into tHT
>     set the scroll of field "AdventureText" to (tFHT
> - tHT)
>   end if
> end AddToConsole

This looks interesting to try out so I'll investigate
it and let you know my findings. I want the player to
simply type in command(s) in an input text field,
press enter/return key and then see the results of
their command printed in the readonly game textfield -
without having to use mouse or arrow keys to scroll
for further text. I'd rather display a 'press a key to
continue' prompt before revealing further text in the
game text field... The scrolling would be as you
described in your reply with the ealier text scrolling
upwards out of sight and the newer text printed below
perhaps with a "What now?" prompt to the player..

Regards,
Phil


		
___________________________________________________________ 
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Oct 24 15:16:47 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:16:47 -0700
Subject: Multilingual dialogues
In-Reply-To: <B4619C2D-8B10-4C6B-BBF4-C6AF0A5B412C@openpartenrship.net>
References: <OFFA038656.16483DFE-ONC125709F.003DF45D-C125709F.003E8025@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<EDF71046-E753-4234-9CFF-D883EA0033D7@openpartenrship.net>
	<4B60340F-377C-4EF3-A7A3-95FA3C0AB706@mangomultimedia.com>
	<B4619C2D-8B10-4C6B-BBF4-C6AF0A5B412C@openpartenrship.net>
Message-ID: <DFF4F1EA-86CB-4B35-9FD9-E430D05B6E92@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 20, 2005, at 12:33 PM, David Bovill wrote:
>
> Thanks - sounds good. And perhaps if all the language stacks were  
> substacks of stack "Translations" or.... then it would be easy to  
> add another translation and a script could automatically figure out  
> how many were available?

This depends on whether you want to have all language stacks loaded
into memory or not.  I like to just load the language that the
program will be using.  I have a folder called "languages" in my app
support folder.  When the app launches it checks the system language
and then tries to load the appropriate stack file.  If the language
doesn't exist it defaults to English.

This way I can always refer to stack "language" using Transcript and
I don't have to worry about what language it actually is.

If you need to get a list of what languages are available then just
get a listing of the languages folder.

>> David - I've tried answering the email you sent me but it keeps  
>> getting bounced.  I've tried a couple of accounts but I think I am  
>> not on your spam list.
>>
>
> My provider was hacked earlier in the week - still recovering -  
> email seems to be working now though?

I still get returned emails saying:

Sorry, I couldn't find any host named openpartenrship.net. (#5.1.2)

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 24 15:27:57 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:27:57 +0200
Subject: long (?) filenames in players
In-Reply-To: <ED541E36-6C4A-4BA4-AB35-B7E0CBB2304E@skynet.be>
References: <97056F67-C4FF-462B-8B9D-46F01118E1D1@major-k.de>
	<330C943D-4A6A-43A2-B412-077FC9319711@major-k.de>
	<ED541E36-6C4A-4BA4-AB35-B7E0CBB2304E@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <0C808E79-0ADA-41BD-9C47-57341520F3E2@major-k.de>

Bpn soir Yves,

> Le 24-oct.-05 ? 19:39, Klaus Major a ?crit :
>> Hi revolutionists,
>>
>>> Hi friends,
>>>
>>> big problem :-/
>>> I have some MP3 files in this folder:
>>> /Volumes/Ablage/RRMC etc Hilfe/Bajasch/
>>> ...
>>> Any hints are very welcome!
>>>
>>> Or is this bad ol' bug nr. 396?
>>> Or am I doing something obviously stupid? ;-)
> Hi Klaus,
>
> What about
> put unidecode(theFilePath,"UTF8") into theFilePath
>
> should that work ?

mais non, pas du tout, mon ami :-/

No, not at all, my friend.

> Greetings.
>
> Yves COPPE
> yvescoppe at skynet.be

Best

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From david at openpartnership.net  Mon Oct 24 15:34:01 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:34:01 +0200
Subject: Multilingual dialogues
In-Reply-To: <DFF4F1EA-86CB-4B35-9FD9-E430D05B6E92@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <OFFA038656.16483DFE-ONC125709F.003DF45D-C125709F.003E8025@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<EDF71046-E753-4234-9CFF-D883EA0033D7@openpartenrship.net>
	<4B60340F-377C-4EF3-A7A3-95FA3C0AB706@mangomultimedia.com>
	<B4619C2D-8B10-4C6B-BBF4-C6AF0A5B412C@openpartenrship.net>
	<DFF4F1EA-86CB-4B35-9FD9-E430D05B6E92@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <A11CD373-4877-4F2B-8ACF-46440A5CCB84@openpartnership.net>

On 24 Oct 2005, at 21:16, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> I still get returned emails saying:
>
> Sorry, I couldn't find any host named openpartenrship.net. (#5.1.2)

Typo - david at openpartnership.net

Appologies set wrong return address when changing to new IMAP host.


From mlange at lexicall.org  Mon Oct 24 15:38:34 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:38:34 +0100
Subject: Open source tools and plugins
Message-ID: <BD0DB242-7F14-4C68-9076-6654CC510E47@lexicall.org>

> I think that's an excellent idea.   Very much like RevNet.
>
> We can publish the index in a simple delimited format for use by  
> RevNet, Eric Chatonet's tools, and any other viewer anyone cares to  
> make for the repository.
>

It would be great if  you could find a bit of time to help out  
Richard... RevNet is an excellent model indeed. On top, it is open  
source and only about 61 lines long (never checked that before),  
shouldn't be too difficult to adapt.

Best would probably be to make it able to read my   mtd format... A  
reason to keep a view of the tools available on the web is that it  
helps present a good image of our community. With most resources only  
available via revtools, there is a risk that newcommers are left very  
much unimpressed by the tip of the iceberg that we leave for them to  
view).

Marielle

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org





From userev at canelasoftware.com  Mon Oct 24 15:39:26 2005
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:39:26 -0700
Subject: Mac OS icns
In-Reply-To: <22b71fbd704d4485fc565097cf4f64b0@siphonophore.com>
References: <20051018203532.3A46E825352@mail.runrev.com>
	<22b71fbd704d4485fc565097cf4f64b0@siphonophore.com>
Message-ID: <0FDA07A8-F865-4754-8A54-27F472C22B04@canelasoftware.com>


On Oct 21, 2005, at 11:12 AM, Jeffrey Reynolds wrote:

> Hi,
>
> just wanted to check to make sure i have this correct. to associate  
> icn resources with a macos app, the referring resources must be 129  
> for the application and 128 for files, correct? It works in  
> practice for me, but the 261 documentation says to use 128 for  
> standalone apps and no mention of the files number. in looking at  
> the created apps, 129 is the application icn and 128 is the file icn.


Hi Jeff,

I have not worked on this in some time, but I think you should be  
able to use any id number.  It is the APPL setting that makes it all  
come together.  I do not have a Mac OS 9 system handy at the moment  
to verify.


Mark Talluto
-- 
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Mon Oct 24 15:44:02 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:44:02 -0700
Subject: Phishy Paypal -- "those guys pushing the envelope"
In-Reply-To: <20051022221547.293.qmail@web33014.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051022221547.293.qmail@web33014.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06200700bf82e91523f8@[10.0.1.2]>

PayPal and eBay have a strong commercial incentive to discourage 
phishing. I'd guess they are working hard on the problem, as we speak.

If you happen to notice a phishing message in mailbox shortly after 
it arrives, forward it immediately (including all headers) to 
spoof at paypal.com or spoof at ebay.com. If users keep doing this, some of 
these creeps will eventually get caught, and get severely punished.

If the phishing message is more than a few hours old, don't bother.


Tim

>--- Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
>wrote:
>
>>  PayPal phishing their own customers
>>  for info just doesn't make sense.
>
>"those guys are always pushing the envelope"
>refered to the bad guys in Romania or wherever.
>
>the range of responses was VERY informative.
>
>btw, spellcheck shows Gascony and Goatskin.
>
>Erik Hansen
>
>
>
>erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mlange at lexicall.org  Mon Oct 24 16:13:59 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:13:59 +0100
Subject: docWikis
Message-ID: <79FECED7-2E6E-408D-BF46-F6888225067D@lexicall.org>

Hi Tim,

> I am certainly sympathetic to your goals and philosophical  
> position. Rev users generally seem sympathetic to the manufacturer  
> -- wish it well, want it to succeed. Me too.

It's their product I want to live long and prosper, really ;). If the  
cheap option, dreamcard, could be acquired by a company or a  
government which would make it available open source, this would be  
fantastic!

> My initial reaction -- what's there is admirable. The documentation  
> you have written is somewhat clearer and less terse than Rev's  
> native documentation, with more examples.

Thanks. But I don't deserve the credits. Much of it is just cut and  
paste from this list... with possibly a few rewrites. There is  
***extraordinary** material posted on this list (if you have time to  
read all posts, past and present, which is not really to be expected  
from a recent user). We could gain so much if we were reusing it more  
than we presently do.

> Of course the number of items and issues documented is relatively  
> small. I didn't spend a lot of time exploring -- I might have  
> overlooked something. I'm sorry you're disappointed with the  
> overall reaction so far.
>
> Beyond that, I wonder if initial visitors will be daunted by the  
> task of re-writing Rev's native documentation and moving it to your  
> wiki, while simultaneously improving and supplementing the native  
> documentation. If Rev's native documentation can't be moved  
> wholesale to a wiki, with its hyperlinks, "see also" links, and so  
> on, intact, for the sake of wiki-type improving and supplementing,  
> I fear too many potential wiki users will be too daunted, and it  
> just won't catch on.
>
> I hope I'm wrong, though.

You are probably right... if the ultimate goal is a good  
documentation, efforts should be centralized rather than dispersed. I  
am interested in giving a hand to produce a good documentation more  
than in hosting a few pages on snippets. But for the moment, there is  
room for individual efforts... I didn't really feel a real  
"community" momentum for "improving and supplementing the native  
documentation". This surprises me. My understanding is that all the  
current doc has in fact been produced collaboratively, in a wiki. At  
least, I came across a wiki that contained this documentation,  
written in 2001-2002. I cannot find its url anymore.

But centralized organisation doesn't mean unique resource. Members of  
this list have very different skill level and learning style. Some  
like textual explanations. Others prefer to be presented with  
examples of code alone.

I am ready to translate all xml documents into a wiki format if this  
can help (wouldn't take more than a day, I have already written  
various html2wiki conversion routines).

> I visited your site, and bookmarked it.

Good, you will join the 44 visitors a day (yes, about 1300 a month,  
not hits, not robots, individual visitors... not too bad).

And I got two new users and a new contribution to the snippets.  
Thanks a lot Mark for your contribution!

I am very curious... What would be needed to get more of you register  
and contribute? Tell me and I do it :). Seriously! I know that taking  
part in an open wiki requires a culture shift. Our generation hasn't  
really learned to work collaboratively.... What do you believe would  
help get persons participate in a communal initiative? What are the  
factors that encourage or discourage participation? What is your own  
perception of this... Do you feel like exposing yourself when  
participating to a wiki (what if I make a spellling errror, somebody  
will see it?)... this shouldn't be too different from the mailing  
list... in fact, even better if you leave an error, then somebody can  
come and correct it. Or is it this the problem, that somebody can  
come and change what you have written.

Maybe I should start to write errors (there probably are some)...  
maybe persons will then think, this is wrong, I really need to  
intervene... done, ah!, without me, this wiki wouldn't be worth  
visiting.

What is the strongest in most humans, the need to feel that they  
bring a valuable contribution or the need for their own, personal  
contribution, to be valued? What environment needs to be created for  
the former rather than the later to become more important?

Marielle

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 24 16:24:42 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:24:42 +0200
Subject: long (?) filenames in players
In-Reply-To: <2DB17C23-05FA-497B-8E55-E4BA66EF2C15@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <97056F67-C4FF-462B-8B9D-46F01118E1D1@major-k.de>
	<330C943D-4A6A-43A2-B412-077FC9319711@major-k.de>
	<2DB17C23-05FA-497B-8E55-E4BA66EF2C15@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <34DAE7C6-B270-43A1-8164-59C60D802D61@major-k.de>

Hi Trevor,

> On Oct 24, 2005, at 10:39 AM, Klaus Major wrote:
>
>> 2. This works with loooooong filenames, but NOT with any UMLAUTS
>> in the filename (long or short) :-/
>>
>> Mark, any chance to get this fixed soon?
>> I am living in the mother country of UMLAUTS!
>> Not to forget the french and their accents etc...
>> So this is a real showstopper!
>>
> Until this is fixed maybe you could put the URL in a SMIL file and  
> load that.  Perhaps this way QT would be handling the filename and  
> would do the right thing.

thanks, will try that, although this will be definitively "overkill"...

But i will have to take card to NOT save the SMIL file in a path with  
umlauts,
sounds like a vicious circle :-)

Mark, please help!

> Trevor DeVore
> Blue Mango Multimedia
> trevor at mangomultimedia.com

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon Oct 24 16:47:36 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 13:47:36 -0700
Subject: long (?) filenames in players
In-Reply-To: <34DAE7C6-B270-43A1-8164-59C60D802D61@major-k.de>
References: <97056F67-C4FF-462B-8B9D-46F01118E1D1@major-k.de>
	<330C943D-4A6A-43A2-B412-077FC9319711@major-k.de>
	<2DB17C23-05FA-497B-8E55-E4BA66EF2C15@mangomultimedia.com>
	<34DAE7C6-B270-43A1-8164-59C60D802D61@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <0925CA49-6C39-4F83-AC78-C7977261366D@mangomultimedia.com>

On Oct 24, 2005, at 1:24 PM, Klaus Major wrote:
>
> thanks, will try that, although this will be definitively  
> "overkill"...

Yep.

> But i will have to take card to NOT save the SMIL file in a path  
> with umlauts,
> sounds like a vicious circle :-)

True, but that is easy - temp file that you control the path of.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Oct 24 16:53:14 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:53:14 +0200
Subject: long (?) filenames in players
In-Reply-To: <0925CA49-6C39-4F83-AC78-C7977261366D@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <97056F67-C4FF-462B-8B9D-46F01118E1D1@major-k.de>
	<330C943D-4A6A-43A2-B412-077FC9319711@major-k.de>
	<2DB17C23-05FA-497B-8E55-E4BA66EF2C15@mangomultimedia.com>
	<34DAE7C6-B270-43A1-8164-59C60D802D61@major-k.de>
	<0925CA49-6C39-4F83-AC78-C7977261366D@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <E0FBEEBB-7B39-4203-BC19-14F6FD1F42D5@major-k.de>

Hi Trevor,

> On Oct 24, 2005, at 1:24 PM, Klaus Major wrote:
>> thanks, will try that, although this will be definitively  
>> "overkill"...
> Yep.

But it works!
Geez, a 1,000,000 $ mousetrap :-D

>> But i will have to take card to NOT save the SMIL file in a path  
>> with umlauts,
>> sounds like a vicious circle :-)
> True, but that is easy - temp file that you control the path of.

sure, that was a little joke ;-)

> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> Blue Mango Multimedia
> trevor at mangomultimedia.com

Best

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Mon Oct 24 16:55:33 2005
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:55:33 +0200
Subject: (Pre) ANN: Pattern Toolkit Gallery
Message-ID: <435D4A45.1000901@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

I have added a gallery of images to my website 
<http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia> (scroll down on the left and select 
"Pattern Art").

The images are examples created with my "Pattern Toolkit" built with 
Metacard/Revolution (for some reason it is impossible to build a 
standalone of this stack in the Revolution IDE, but it is possible in 
the leaner alternative Metacard IDE).

I intend to offer the toolkit as a free download in the middle of 
November. The GUI of this up to now very personal tool needs first to be 
cleaned up and organised, as there are more than 100 different functions 
and algorithms to create basic color patterns and to transform them into 
various secondary and tertiary patterns by means of different kinds of 
overlays, shifting, rotating, creating multi-directional color 
transitions (gradients), using vertical and horizontal flips and 
(partial) mirrors etc..

The toolkit is a further development of an older tool that used small 
fields as color units (compare my stack 
<www.sanke.org/Software/RevTestStacks.zip> which is also attached to 
Bugzilla 2217; see also my comments on page "Tools and Samples for 
Development" on my website concerning the so far unresolved difficulties 
for the Rev IDE).

The new toolkit now uses backcolors of chars in a 120x160 matrix 
(instead of the former 5400 fields) to achieve a satisfactory resolution 
that enables the user to enlarge the finally saved image. You can try 
out this for yourself after downloading the real-size JPEG images.


 To navigate to the individual images click on the thumbs.-

As usual, there remains the question of the intentions and the 
usefulness of such a tool. I think a number of answers are possible.

In my experience it is a very creative tool, maybe mainly useless, but 
somehow fascinating as I find myself spending long hours experimenting 
with ever changing patterns.

Regards,

Wilhelm Sanke
<www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>



From robertum at brturbo.com  Mon Oct 24 16:56:17 2005
From: robertum at brturbo.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:56:17 -0200
Subject: www.howsoft.com now a Revolution site
Message-ID: <435D4A71.5010400@brturbo.com>

Dear Colleagues,

My site at www.howsoft.com is now explicity a "Revolution" site. This 
initial effort is extremely modest, but expansions and improvements can 
be expected in the not-too-distant future.

Revolution is portrayed as a multiplatform programming tool, with 
particular emphasis on Ubuntu Linux.

Best regards,
Bob Warren


From mlange at lexicall.org  Mon Oct 24 16:57:09 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:57:09 +0100
Subject: outliners
Message-ID: <E0C04113-B376-4D8C-A464-D21595D5E0C2@lexicall.org>

A review of all existing outliners:
http://www.atpm.com/Back/atpo.shtml

This is a mac online journal (ATPM), but many of the outliners they  
mention are cross-platform.

Marielle
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From mlange at lexicall.org  Mon Oct 24 17:15:42 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:15:42 +0100
Subject: How trim?
Message-ID: <EC7CE28C-8AF4-4C91-A407-2A5D78C01BD3@lexicall.org>

Hi Bob,

You could also use regular expressions.

put LTrim(RTrim("   The cat sat under the mat   " )) into tResult

function LTrim pText
     get matchtext(pText, "(^[ \t]*(.*))", tFull, tPart)
     replace tFull with tPart in pText;
     return pText
end function

function RTrim pText
     get matchtext(pText, "((.*)[ \t]*$)", tFull, tPart)
     replace tFull with tPart in pText;
     return pText
end function

(^ means start of word, $ means end of word; . means any  
character; .* means any number (0 to many) of any character; [ \t]  
means either space or tab (I added tab in case you want to remove  
initial tabs as well).

> Bob Warren wrote:
>
>> Sometimes inexperienced Rev programmers have to ask questions that  
>> make them want to crawl under the table in shame because probably  
>> the answer is idiotically simple. Here is such a question.
>>
>> If I have a string, say:-
>>
>> "   The cat sat under the mat   "
>>
>> - and I want to trim off the leading and following blanks to give:-
>>
>> "The cat sat on the mat"
>>
>>
> put word 1 to -1 of myVar into mySecondVar
>
> Trimming only one end is slightly harder - in fact, the best way I  
> can think of is surprisingly complex
> put char 1 to -2 of (word 1 to -1 of (t & "="))      -- could have  
> been any non-space character
> put char 2 to -1 of (word 1 to -1 of ("=" & t))      -- could have  
> been any non-space character
>
>
> Hopefully someone else will come up with an easier way, and I will  
> slap my head in annoyance :-)
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Oct 24 17:19:19 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:19:19 +0100
Subject: Help with image effect
In-Reply-To: <20051024181754.B37C3824F12@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051024181754.B37C3824F12@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <435D4FD7.4070909@tweedly.net>

MisterX wrote:

>Alex
>
>Here's the new script I made - note that now it's TAOO style ;)
>It applies to any control's rect... And it swaps layers at some
>point.
>  
>
I like it - almost !

I'm not sure it's safe to swap the layers of an arbitrary control, just 
because you're changing its position - doesn't that affect the tab order 
for focusable controls.

In my specific case, what I'm actually doing is raising the layer of the 
two images I'm swapping to the top (otherwise they flicker in and out of 
view as the pass behind / in front of the other intervening images. 
(Think "jigsaw puzzle").

>What's TAOO about this handler? It handles any occasion! It was
>improved, it's shared among the community for more ideas!
>
>  
>
Thanks!

>anyone think rev should support opengl? How far can Rev take multimedia with
>a simple idea?
>
>  
>
I think OpenGL would be good .... though I struggle to do much exciting 
stuff with images (far less sound and video), so I'm not sure I'd be 
able to make good use of it - but I'd sure like to have the chance.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/147 - Release Date: 24/10/2005



From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Oct 24 17:23:32 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:23:32 +0100
Subject: Help with image effect
In-Reply-To: <BF81404C.23647%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF81404C.23647%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <435D50D4.3080102@tweedly.net>

Scott Rossi wrote:

> Without seeing exactly what you're doing, I'll go out on a limb and guess
>
>that yes, the images are too large for Rev to really do this smoothly.  If
>Rev had some kind of direct-to-screen option, this might be doable, but the
>images are probably a bit large for Rev to do natively. Three suggestions:
>
>  
>
Thanks Scott - that gave me the confidence that I'm not missing anything 
too obvious, so I pressed ahead.

>1) If possible, map the images down to 8 bit color, no transparency.  The
>fewer calculations Rev has to do to render the image/s on the card, the
>faster the transition can be.
>
>2) If possible, don't do a "real" scaling effect.  Instead, create the
>in-between frames in advance and show those, for example, as icons of a
>button.  But again, given the size of the image, the delay between image
>updates may still be too great, and of course, you probably want to do this
>on-the-fly with any given images.
>  
>
You're right - arbitrary images (sections from an entire image supplied 
by the user).

I've simply limited the max size of any image that I am trying to 
animate. The user can always override my choices and make bigger 
sections - and choose whether to disable the animation feature.


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/147 - Release Date: 24/10/2005



From mlange at lexicall.org  Mon Oct 24 17:27:50 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:27:50 +0100
Subject: How trim?
Message-ID: <6038EC0E-44F0-4064-BE8B-967F038187B7@lexicall.org>

Why did I use matchtext and replace in my previous example.... Sorry  
I was leaving you to find the solution on your own (sorry, teacher  
here)... There was obviously an obvious shortcut to take.

put BTrim("   The cat sat under the mat   " ) into tResult

function BTrim pText
     get matchtext(pText, "(^[ \t]*(.*)[ \t]*$)", tFull, tPart)
     replace tFull with tPart in pText;
     return pText
end function

Best,
Marielle

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org





From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Oct 24 17:32:43 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:32:43 -0500
Subject: www.howsoft.com now a Revolution site
In-Reply-To: <435D4A71.5010400@brturbo.com>
References: <435D4A71.5010400@brturbo.com>
Message-ID: <435D52FB.8030105@chipp.com>

Bob,

Great website! Looks fabulous. I look forward to spending some time 
looking around.

best,

Chipp

Bob Warren wrote:
> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> My site at www.howsoft.com is now explicity a "Revolution" site. This 
> initial effort is extremely modest, but expansions and improvements can 
> be expected in the not-too-distant future.
> 
> Revolution is portrayed as a multiplatform programming tool, with 
> particular emphasis on Ubuntu Linux.



From phefti at club-internet.fr  Mon Oct 24 17:19:32 2005
From: phefti at club-internet.fr (Pascal)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 23:19:32 +0200
Subject: database (bis)
Message-ID: <bbfcc1cb3957fb1e5d4ae0c57ca69f54@club-internet.fr>

Hello,

Never thought that my question would produce such numerous and 
interesting answers.

I've been on the various websites and found many interesting things, 
but there is still something missing :
Has anyone an idea where I could find an example of a database that 
works on Revolution ?
(I mean a real database not an adress book)


Thanks

Pascal



From mlange at lexicall.org  Mon Oct 24 17:51:27 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:51:27 +0100
Subject: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine
Message-ID: <52C65AE9-EE76-4F8A-AB30-47D4E0D3EED7@lexicall.org>

Yuk!!!

If the programmers have to check up regular expressions anyway, can I  
suggest they make the matchtext consider the full text and not just  
match ***within*** a line of text. Okay for "^" and "$" to correspond  
to the start and end of a line of text, this is what happens in all  
programs that allow for regular expression.

But in all programs that implement regular expressions, the following  
happens:
put replaceText("DA" & cr & "CD","A.?C","")    -> DD
put replaceText("DA" & tab & "CD","A.?C","") -> DD

In revolution, this happens:
put replaceText("DA" & cr & "CD","A.?C","")    -> DA cr CD
put replaceText("DA" & tab & "CD","A.?C","") -> DD

The only way to deal with this is to replace all cr characters with  
another one completely unlikely to occur in the text before the  
replacetext or matchtext, then replace the other character with cr  
after the replacetext and matchtext. Quite unpractical and  
unnecessarily slowing down performance when big chunks of texts -- I  
use this for xml files -- need to be processed.

Marielle

> Wouter is right:
>
>> This is actually true -- and a serious bug in Revolution's RegExp  
>> engine.
>
> The Regular Expression Syntax reference states:
>
> ^ matches the following character at the beginning of the string
> ^A matches "ABC" but not "CAB"
>
> * matches zero or more occurrences of the preceding character or  
> pattern

I assumed that Revolution would do what it promised and didn't check  
this.

Try
answer replaceText("A C","^ *","")
I get "C", which obviously is not correct.
If I remove the "*", I get "A C"

And
answer replaceText("BAC","^A*","")
gives "C", so "^A*" matches "BA".
This must not happen.

It looks like "^A*" is incorrectly interpreted as "^.*A*".

Parentheses don't help, but might make things worse:
answer replaceText("BAC","(^A)*","")
gives an empty result. No idea why.

All the best

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From mlange at lexicall.org  Mon Oct 24 18:02:33 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 23:02:33 +0100
Subject: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine
Message-ID: <A1335E44-9537-4C3E-BEBD-07180B08A612@lexicall.org>

In all programs I know that implement regular expressions, replaceText 
("A C","^ *","") will return A C not C. I tested it in BBedit, A C is  
returned. This is not due to the greediness of the "*", as this  
cannot explain that ^ seems to eat up the A. Perhaps it is due to the  
fact the routine is coded within revolution as it seems that the ^  
absorbs the first letter.

put replaceText("A C","^p","")   -> A C
put replaceText("A C","^","")     -> empty.

This looks like a bug.

Marielle

>
> Mark Greenberg wrote:
> Though it's academic now since Bob has his solutions, this isn't a  
> Rev bug; it's the way Regular Expressions work (or fail to in this  
> case).  The problem is in the greediness of the * quantifier.

> Though I can't say that I totally understand why, in cases where  
> the RegEx reduces to nothing after the optional parts are removed,  
> matching with either the ? or the * quantifiers causes unexpected  
> results, regardless of whether the RegEx is in Perl, egrep, or  
> wherever.

> This is because the RegEx engine continues to try to find a match  
> (to nothingness, I guess), consumes the entire string, and then  
> backtracks giving up one character at a time.  Why "C" instead of  
> "A C"?  I don't know, but my RegEx reference book (Mastering  
> Regular Expressions by Jeffrey E. F. Friedl) does warn against such  
> constructions as "^ *" with a lengthy explanation about greediness  
> of the * and ? quantifiers.


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Mon Oct 24 18:20:34 2005
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 00:20:34 +0200
Subject: How trim?
Message-ID: <435D5E32.3060102@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005, Jim Ault <JimAultWins at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the input, Wilhelm.
> <snip>
> I was thinking about functions that would handle things that were a little
> more difficult for repeat loops, such as
> -embedded multiple  spaces    where you are expecting one
> -pattern recognition to correct user input, eg
> -plurals,
> -abbreviations,
> -commas vs periods [email and urls ]


We have been addressing such problems with more or less working 
solutions in our educational stacks for some time.
I  recognized  the potential of your  flexible approach and appreciate 
it. I was going to comment on it in my last post and then somehow left 
it out.

> Further
> Using the Rev 'filter' lines command, as well as matchText, 
> replaceText, etc


One of the many areas in which I still have to develop my abilities is 
surely dealing with Regex expressions. I am working on it.

> Any ideas that would help you?


Thanks for the offer, maybe I will come back to that. -

When I said

"At least it is easier to understand and apply than Regex expressions, 
especially for
 Xtalk novices"

I was more thinking of the students at our institution that I try to 
introduce to multimedia programming including using Metacard/Transcript 
when I talked of "novices".

You can inspect some of the results of my endeavors on page "Student 
Samples" of my website <http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>.

Best

Wilhelm Sanke, Prof.
Media Sciences/Educational Technology
University of Kassel, Germany




From mlange at lexicall.org  Mon Oct 24 18:40:25 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 23:40:25 +0100
Subject: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine 
Message-ID: <AEC7A6EF-3E22-4C6C-9C8F-85E18AA4EB07@lexicall.org>


> The other main issue is that Rev does not support all the fine  
> nuances of Perl-style RegEx, though the docs say it does.

A problem is that their documentation doesn't match what their  
functions. A table that summarizes the regular expression codes found  
in about all programs that implement regular expressions can be seen  
at : http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php? 
page=RegularExpressions

What is missing in rev doc:
{} The braces force the preceding character to match a
           specific number of times.
           Ex:  (rat){3}    matches ratratrat
            rat{3}    matches rattt  rat{2,5} matches ratt or
           rattt or ratttt or rattttt (Between 2 and 5 t s)

Though this is implemented:
put "_" & replaceText("AAAAAAA","A{3}","")   -> A
put "_" & replaceText("AAAAAAA","A{4}","")   -> AAA
put "_" & replaceText("AAAAAAA","A{5}","")   -> AA
put "_" & replaceText("AAAAAAA","A{6}","")   -> A

There is an error in their documentation:
[ABC]|[XYZ] matches ?AY? or ?CX?, but not ?AA? or ?ZB?.
should be:
[ABC][XYZ] matches ?AY? or ?CX?, but not ?AA? or ?ZB?.  (i.e.,  
inappropriate to exemplify "|")
Hopefully, the function behaves normally:
put "AYCXAA" into tTExt; put replacetext(tText, "[ABC][XYZ]", "") - 
 >   AA
put "AYCXAA" into tTExt; put replacetext(tText, "[ABC]|[XYZ]", "")  - 
 > empty

The correct example is
(AY|CX)   matches ?AY? or ?CX?
or a more telling one
(mouse|mice) matches mouse or mice.

> I don't remember the details, but I ran into problems trying to use  
> look-around features, for instance.  I've come to the conclusion  
> that I should try a simple version of what I want first in the  
> Message Box, then put it into my script.

I was surprised to see Mark use \s and \S as they are not mentioned  
in the documentation (which hasn't been updated to follow updates in  
the function in version 2.5). Full information about these special  
codes can be found below.

Interestingly, start of text can also be represented by \A and \Z .  
They work in revolution and produce still another behaviour.  
Honestly, I was pleased to read that regular expressions had been  
improved (version 2.6?)... but there are obviously some more problems  
to fix.

put "_" & replaceText(" A C","^ *","")  -> _A C
put "_" & replaceText("A C","^ *","")   -> _C

put "_" & replaceText(" A C","\A ","")   -> _A C   (space before A C)
put "_" & replaceText("A C","\A ","")     -> _A C   (no space)
put "_" & replaceText("A C","\A ","")     -> _A C   (no space)
put "_" & replaceText("A C","\A *","")    -> _
put "_" & replaceText(" A C","\A *","")    -> _


I tried the edge of word (\B) and this seems to behave strangely as  
well:

put "_" & replaceText(" A C","\B *","")   -> _A C
put "_" & replaceText(" A C","\b *","")   -> _

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
------------------------

  \b and \B    NaV. \b matches the empty string at the
               edge of a word; \B matches the empty string if not at  
the edge of
               a word.
               Ex: \bcomput will match "computer" or "computing", but  
not
               "supercomputer" since there is no spaces or  
punctuation between
               "super" and "computer". \Bcomput will not match  
"computer" or
               "computing", unless it is part of a bigger word such as
               "supercomputer" or "recomputing".

  \w and \W    NaV. \w matches word-constituent
               characters (letters, "_", & digits); \W matches  
characters that
               are not word-constituent
               Ex:  a\wz matches "abz", "aTz", "a5z", "a_z", or any  
three-character
              string starting with "a", ending with "z", and whose
              second character was either a letter (upper-or
              lower-case), a number, or the underscore.
              a\Wz would not match "abz", "aTz", "a5z", or "a_z". It
              would match "a%z", "a z", "a?z" or any three-character
              string starting with "a" and ending with "z" and whose
              second character was not a letter, number, or
              underscore. (This means the second character must
              either be a symbol or a whitespace character.)

  \d and \D    NaV. \d matches any digit. \D matches any
                   character except a digit.
               Ex:  a\Dz matches "abz", "aTz" or "a%z", not "a2z",  
"a5z" or "a9z".
                    \D+ matches any non-null string which contains no  
numeric characters.

  \s and \S    NaV. \s matches exactly one character of
               whitespace. (Whitespace is defined as spaces, tabs,  
newlines, or
               any character which would not use ink if printed on a  
printer.) \S
               matches any character that is not whitespace.
               Ex: a\sz would match any three-character string  
starting with "a" and ending
               with "z" and whose second character was a space, tab,  
or newline.
                   a\Sz would match any three-character string  
starting with "a" and
                   ending with "z" whose second character was not a  
space, tab or
                   newline. (Thus, the second character could be a  
letter, number or
                   symbol.)

  \nnn         NaV. This is used for specifying control characters  
that have no typed
               equivalent. For example, \007 would find all subjects  
with an embedded ASCII
               "bell" character. (The bell is specified by an ASCII  
value of 7.) You will
               rarely need to use the octal metacharacter.

  \A and \Z    Beginning and End of string. (equivalents of ^and $)


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From mlange at lexicall.org  Mon Oct 24 18:53:41 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 23:53:41 +0100
Subject: database
Message-ID: <95218890-4302-4ED0-AB96-2FE75EABB0DA@lexicall.org>

"I must be the change I want to see in the world."  -- Gandhi

Funny, this is my favorite quote too. Though the version I know is:
"Be The Change You Wish To See In The World"

Though the original version apparently is:
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world"
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/500hats/51508584/)

Am I using this to encourage others to follow your example... I will  
only say that I strongly believe in this quote.

Marielle
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From mlange at lexicall.org  Mon Oct 24 19:14:14 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 00:14:14 +0100
Subject: Pre-Fab Profile Set? 
Message-ID: <3C31E4DF-B122-4E81-A372-351841233A7F@lexicall.org>

Hi Dan,

This is excellent news. Your server, my server, doesn't matter. If on  
mine, I can easily set up a password protected forum. Yahoo groups  
don't have my favor either. We can discuss of the particulars in  
private.

But I should clarify this. Why password protected? My situation has  
changed. I have decided to take 6 months off my normal employment  
(academic) to develop a few projects that I don't have time to  
develop properly when on a full time job. Open Source development is  
cool. But quality applications can only be developed when working  
full time on the projects, at least for the design/pilot/putting  
everything together stage. Some applications that meet the specific  
needs of the academic community never get developed because academic  
don't have the time and focus to develop fully fledge applications. I  
had these ideas about 5 years ago, wrote a few utilities for my own  
use, but never had the opportunity to transform them into tools  
useful to my community. I am doing it now.

I don't intend to make money from selling these libraries but from  
selling small but very useful tools to a rather large market  
(educators, academics, in a $5-$10 the unit model). Until I am ready  
to distribute these, I prefer to keep my competitive advantage (I  
start to use buzz word as I am following an entrepreneurship  
course :) ). All libraries will probably be made available open  
source once I start getting money to pay back the development costs  
(no guaranteed salary for 6 months). I am very receptive to the idea  
of ransomware too (keep it close till you get the development costs  
back).

Marielle

> I'd be up for that, Marielle. I can set up and host a group on one  
> of my servers if you like or we can go the Yahoo groups route which  
> several other Rev-related groups have done but which I find sort of  
> moderately distasteful.
>
>> Can we create a working group? I am interested in collaboration  
>> but not in making everything widely available right now.


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From bfr at nwlink.com  Mon Oct 24 19:33:40 2005
From: bfr at nwlink.com (Bruce Robertson)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:33:40 -0700
Subject: database
In-Reply-To: <20051024154225.40BC78250FC@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BF82BD64.4781A%bfr@nwlink.com>

> no offense. no boasting...
> 
> I did the relational lookup in FMP, and it took minutes!
> 
> So I opted for a double-linked-list of records (this was a hierarchical
> database - the relations were previously based on a parent id but searching
> this was horribly slow...
> 
> So I made the search implicit by pre-creating the fetch index to the
> information. The relational didn't become flat but almost...
> 
> The DBF database this came from originally was just as fast... Which tells
> you lots about how macs were seen by the guy who hired me...
> 
> Im sure it wouldn't compete in the real world though, then again for a
> minimal
> functionality DB it did work wonders and it hardly used any xternals ;)

I would like to know more details about these claims. What version of
FileMaker, how long ago, did you talk to anybody who actually had some
FileMaker experience? Search results across 700,000 indexed records are
normally instantaneous.

There are some action - like summary calculations - which can definitely be
slow. If you were searching across a relationship, that used to be a known
problem in versions before 7 and there were techniques that could be used to
deal with it. But that, too, is no longer a problem and searches across
relationships are also fast now.



From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Oct 24 19:51:33 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 00:51:33 +0100
Subject: ANN: Image Jigsaw
Message-ID: <435D7385.7010507@tweedly.net>


I've put the (very early) version of my jigsaw game up on RevOnline, and 
on www.tweedly.net/RunRev

username alextweedly Category Games and it's called Image Jigsaw

As usual for me, it doesn't have a whole lot of flash or polish :-), but 
it is I think a lot of fun to play. And it does use the image swap 
animation that's been mentioned before.

You use your own photo files to play.  Here's the help file

> Image Jigsaw  Public Domain contributed by Alex Tweedly   2005
>
> Click on "Play" to begin
> Give a file name of a JPG ( or other image file), which should be 640 
> x 480 or similar size ratio.
>
> Once the photo is displayed, click "Begin" to start playing:
>    click on a piece to make it active
>            (if you change your mind, click on it again to de-actiavte it)
>    then click on another piece
>
> the two chosen pieces will swap positions (stretching or shrinking to 
> fit as needed).
>
> When all pieces are in the correct place, a bix will appear telling 
> you you have achieved success.
>
> At any time, click on "View" to see the photo again - then on "Resume" 
> to continue playing.
>
> Select "Borders" to see the border of each piece outlined.
> Select "Animate" to see the piece swap being animated.
>
> Have fun.
> (Many enhancements are possible - I plan to do some of them, but if 
> there is anything you'd like to see, please either email me. Or go 
> ahead and do it, then email me.)




-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/147 - Release Date: 24/10/2005



From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Oct 24 20:30:10 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:30:10 -0500
Subject: database
In-Reply-To: <BF82D14D.408B6%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>
References: <BF82D14D.408B6%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>
Message-ID: <435D7C92.1030706@chipp.com>

Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:

> BTW, SqlLite do not search all records never. They just search first record
> which satisfy RANGE search, and stop. When you do NEXT record they do search
> next one.  They can do this only because they have claim: we are single used
> db. This is why it is not possible right _correct_ server around SqlLite. It
> can return few correct results, but also incorrect.

Sorry Ruslan, your assumptions here are incorrect. There is an easy way 
to search all of the records, and you know this as well as I.

I understand your desire to sell Valentina. I suggest you try and use 
this list to promote Valentina w/out casting disparaging comments about 
other products.

It's silly to get into petty arguments over whose database is bigger, 
better, faster, easier, more SQL compliant, or whatever. Commercial 
users with serious needs will do detailed studies of their own. For the 
vast majority of Rev developers, there isn't just one tool. In some 
situations, AltSQLIte might be right. In others, Valentina might be the 
right answer. I'm not going to waste my time and this lists bandwidth 
engaging in a petty argument.

best,

Chipp



From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Mon Oct 24 20:54:05 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:54:05 -0700
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <79FECED7-2E6E-408D-BF46-F6888225067D@lexicall.org>
References: <79FECED7-2E6E-408D-BF46-F6888225067D@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <p06200701bf832b2aa0fe@[10.0.1.2]>

Hi Marielle,

I appreciate all your thoughtful comments. I am completely sympathetic.

--very big snip--

You asked:

>
>I am very curious... What would be needed to get more of you 
>register and contribute?


My reply is sort of selfish, I fear. It would take -- uhhh -- 
"critical mass" or "momentum." I.e., the belief that this document, 
this community, this wiki, will grow and thrive, at an accelerating 
rate -- it will be around for a long time, and get better and better. 
If -- hypothetically -- I don't believe this, then I will feel that 
my contributions will likely be futile.

I'd guess that this would be a typical answer, if you asked others.

It seems unfair to you, because there's only so much you can to do 
make that happen.

It's not just unfair, or a dilemma, or a paradox. It's really an 
issue that often arises in game theory. The behavior of each 
potential participant depends upon the behavior of every other 
potential participant.

I think your best strategy would be to convince potential 
participants that their contributions will get recycled into other 
revDocWikis if yours does not grow and thrive. Accordingly, no 
contribution will ever be wasted.

You could take that even further. Make deals with owners of other 
revDocWikis: Anything submitted to yours will be forwarded to all the 
others, and posted there, and all submitted to the others will get 
forwarded to yours. That way, any potential contributor to any wiki, 
no matter how small or obscure, will have good reason to believe that 
his/her contribution will ultimately make a difference. If different 
wikis appeal to different potential contributors, that could actually 
be a good thing, as long as contributions get disseminated.

Of course that would require standardized formats, or at least easily 
convertible formats. I don't know enough about wikis to understand 
the practicality.

That's my .00000002 cents worth, anyway. Thanks for asking.


Tim


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Oct 24 21:05:11 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:05:11 -0500
Subject: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine 
In-Reply-To: <AEC7A6EF-3E22-4C6C-9C8F-85E18AA4EB07@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <BF82EEF7.2E7B4%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/24/05 5:40 PM, "Marielle Lange" <mlange at lexicall.org> wrote:

> 
>> The other main issue is that Rev does not support all the fine
>> nuances of Perl-style RegEx, though the docs say it does.

Actually, what they support is whatever comes with the PCRE engine, and is
supported fully for matchText/matchChunk (AFAIK), whereas it seems like
replaceText only seems to support a portion of PCRE (although I could be
wrong).

> A problem is that their documentation doesn't match what their
> functions. 

True, but they *do* say "Revolution implements regular expressions
compatible with the PCRE library. For detailed information about regular
expression elements you can use with this function, see the PCRE manual at
<http://www.pcre.org/man.txt>."

And given the fact that regular expressions is a lengthy topic, I'm not too
surprised that they have not explained them in detail.

> I was surprised to see Mark use \s and \S as they are not mentioned
> in the documentation (which hasn't been updated to follow updates in
> the function in version 2.5). Full information about these special
> codes can be found below.

See above - I think they just want people to read the docs at pcre.org.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Oct 24 21:16:40 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:16:40 -0700
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <p06200701bf832b2aa0fe@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <79FECED7-2E6E-408D-BF46-F6888225067D@lexicall.org>
	<p06200701bf832b2aa0fe@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <435D8778.8010601@fourthworld.com>

Timothy Miller wrote:
> I think your best strategy would be to convince potential participants 
> that their contributions will get recycled into other revDocWikis if 
> yours does not grow and thrive. Accordingly, no contribution will ever 
> be wasted.

I'm coming in late, so forgive me is this has already been answered:

Why not use the user comment feature built into the Rev docs?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Oct 24 21:17:17 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:17:17 -0500
Subject: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine
In-Reply-To: <52C65AE9-EE76-4F8A-AB30-47D4E0D3EED7@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <BF82F1CD.2E7BA%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/24/05 4:51 PM, "Marielle Lange" <mlange at lexicall.org> wrote:

> Yuk!!!
> 
> If the programmers have to check up regular expressions anyway, can I
> suggest they make the matchtext consider the full text and not just
> match ***within*** a line of text. Okay for "^" and "$" to correspond
> to the start and end of a line of text, this is what happens in all
> programs that allow for regular expression.
> 
> But in all programs that implement regular expressions, the following
> happens:
> put replaceText("DA" & cr & "CD","A.?C","")    -> DD
> put replaceText("DA" & tab & "CD","A.?C","") -> DD
> 
> In revolution, this happens:
> put replaceText("DA" & cr & "CD","A.?C","")    -> DA cr CD
> put replaceText("DA" & tab & "CD","A.?C","") -> DD

This is because the PCRE engine needs to be explicitly told that you want to
treat multiple lines as a single "block", otherwise it looks for a match on
each line. To do this, you need to preface the expression with "(?s)", as
in:

  put replaceText("DA" & cr & "CD","(?s)A.?C","")

and you get back "DD" as you'd expect. (For more info, see the docs at
http://www.pcre.org/man.txt.)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Oct 24 21:18:53 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:18:53 -0700
Subject: Open source tools and plugins
In-Reply-To: <BD0DB242-7F14-4C68-9076-6654CC510E47@lexicall.org>
References: <BD0DB242-7F14-4C68-9076-6654CC510E47@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <435D87FD.10806@fourthworld.com>

Marielle Lange wrote:
>> I think that's an excellent idea.   Very much like RevNet.
>>
>> We can publish the index in a simple delimited format for use by  
>> RevNet, Eric Chatonet's tools, and any other viewer anyone cares to  
>> make for the repository.
>>
> 
> It would be great if  you could find a bit of time to help out  
> Richard... RevNet is an excellent model indeed. On top, it is open  
> source and only about 61 lines long (never checked that before),  
> shouldn't be too difficult to adapt.

Consider it done (?):  RevNet already has a place to add new resources 
to its index.

What specifics are we looking for on top of that?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Oct 24 21:25:02 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:25:02 -0700
Subject: Constellation
In-Reply-To: <9779CB3F-5AFE-404B-8228-C5A937AD0D4E@openpartenrship.net>
References: <741fd030510201743v27fd40eeia15d42d1a7ffea96@mail.gmail.com>	<43583B87.4070508@fourthworld.com>	<43583D81.609@tweedly.net>
	<43583F3F.2050507@fourthworld.com>
	<9779CB3F-5AFE-404B-8228-C5A937AD0D4E@openpartenrship.net>
Message-ID: <435D896E.7020406@fourthworld.com>

David Bovill wrote:
> To do that we  need a plugin for plugins architecture

There is a universal spec to allow plugins to work interoperably in any 
Transcript-based system:

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/revInterop/>

[Spec is mirrored at revJournal:
<http://www.revjournal.com/features/rip/index.html>]

If Jerry doesn't yet have a property-mapping script to take advantage of 
that it wouldn't take but a few minutes to write one for him.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Oct 24 21:26:17 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:26:17 -0400
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <435D8778.8010601@fourthworld.com>
References: <79FECED7-2E6E-408D-BF46-F6888225067D@lexicall.org>
	<p06200701bf832b2aa0fe@[10.0.1.2]>
	<435D8778.8010601@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <86ecb179312fc1ef2da952a9ca081bb2@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 24, 2005, at 9:16 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Why not use the user comment feature built into the Rev docs?

I was wondering the same... wouldn't it be best to put them right where 
people are already looking?

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Mon Oct 24 21:33:38 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:33:38 -0400
Subject: stack while debugging
Message-ID: <A14DFAE2-0A2C-4926-BFEA-BDB433F915FB@conncoll.edu>

A while ago I wished that while debugging I had a stack, in the non- 
Rev sense,  available to examine, and so as to change debugging  
context. Somebody (sorry, I've forgotten who) pointed out that we do  
have that: a pulldown menu in the Message Box.

Good -- but it's usually wrong. The stack (in the Rev sense) I need,  
which is the stack I'm in (using, debugging), isn't the one auto- 
selected there -- that's another stack a couple of steps back. It may  
be the last one *accessed* by Rev (I wrote something to it from the  
current stack), but it isn't meaningfully the *current* stack, the  
one I'm looking at, the one whose controls and variables I want to  
access. So I keep typing stuff into the msg box that gets errors  
because I'm not noticing it's paying attention to some other stack.

Might that be fixable?

Charles Hartman



From see3d at writeme.com  Mon Oct 24 21:43:41 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:43:41 -0400
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <79FECED7-2E6E-408D-BF46-F6888225067D@lexicall.org>
References: <79FECED7-2E6E-408D-BF46-F6888225067D@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <A5F0A849-BAE4-43C1-A29A-A2E08DCD6BF7@writeme.com>

Marielle,

What I would look for (in addition to Timothy's reply) is an easy way  
to navigate to information based on general to specific structure.   
Sort of like discovering what you want by 20 questions game.   
Searching for information requires that you know what to call  
something.  However, a newbie does not know what to call something in  
revspeak yet.  A newbie has a problem to solve, and wants to find  
ideas for how to solve the problem in Transcript.  This list is very  
good for getting that information from the experts for the asking,  
but not so easy to find the previously posted solutions without a lot  
of reading.  I would like to see the information organized by general  
topic to specific topic in a hierarchy where many different starting  
paths can still lead to the same information. This is not like flat  
structures (like a table of contents) or simple hierarchies (like an  
outliner) or random hypertext links.  These all take a lot of time  
and reading to find the solutions to problems.  I am just starting to  
use wikis, so I don't even know if the wiki form could support such a  
linking scheme.

Having the docs and examples organized this way would get me coming  
back to such a site as my first choice for information, and I would  
desire to contribute to it.  I am sure it would be quite compelling  
for newbies and experienced scripters alike.

Dennis

On Oct 24, 2005, at 4:13 PM, Marielle Lange wrote:
> I am very curious... What would be needed to get more of you  
> register and contribute? Tell me and I do it :).


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Mon Oct 24 22:14:18 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:14:18 -0400
Subject: Variable Watcher
Message-ID: <09C090CC-EFA1-4988-9FF6-90F36FCA05DC@conncoll.edu>

--and while I'm complaining:

Variable Watcher is handy, and it's nice that the values (especially  
of arrays) are shown in the lower panel. But that display is not  
updated as you step through the script, so it often shows outdated  
data. Wrong information is much worse than no information.

Charles Hartman


From howard.bornstein at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 22:20:43 2005
From: howard.bornstein at gmail.com (Howard Bornstein)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:20:43 -0400
Subject: ANN: Image Jigsaw
In-Reply-To: <200510242354.j9ONso1g028651@ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com>
References: <200510242354.j9ONso1g028651@ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3f07cc260510241920t79b2e8fbt5e1b9725067ff4be@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/24/05, Alex Tweedly <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:
>
> I've put the (very early) version of my jigsaw game up on RevOnline, and
> on www.tweedly.net/RunRev


http://www.tweedly.net/RunRev/Image%20Jigsaw.rev -- File Not Found

--
Regards,

Howard Bornstein
-----------------------
www.designeq.com


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 22:51:29 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:51:29 +1000
Subject: Variable Watcher
In-Reply-To: <09C090CC-EFA1-4988-9FF6-90F36FCA05DC@conncoll.edu>
References: <09C090CC-EFA1-4988-9FF6-90F36FCA05DC@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510241951q441793d3x83e606618a974efa@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/25/05, Charles Hartman <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu> wrote:
> --and while I'm complaining:
>
> Variable Watcher is handy, and it's nice that the values (especially
> of arrays) are shown in the lower panel. But that display is not
> updated as you step through the script, so it often shows outdated
> data. Wrong information is much worse than no information.
>

Hi Charles,

I have never experienced this and I often use the Variable Watcher for
stepping through a script and checking the contents of variables as I
go. Can you give some more information about what exactly fails? Is it
just arrays - I don't use arrays much so if there is a problem with
that, I probably wouldn't have seen it, but I am curious to know what
makes the VW unreliable.

Cheers,
Sarah


From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Mon Oct 24 23:54:05 2005
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:54:05 -0500
Subject: Constellation: any way to get equivalent of the selectedObject?
In-Reply-To: <47B6CB63-533E-47DA-B4FD-8A226579A8E5@openpartenrship.net>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>	<a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>	<CC443F5E-30AC-4233-B7A8-EDD2B45F0334@danshafer.com>
	<EE555764-36F5-4908-AD88-BA08667B8409@conncoll.edu>
	<435535EC.2020809@fourthworld.com>
	<4B7D9C22-6B46-40A4-8D9A-BBBF170D805F@conncoll.edu>
	<90A514A0-F870-4333-A829-8A6445DDA704@conncoll.edu>
	<E77BCBCD-7E71-49ED-B584-FBC2966B5715@openpartenrship.net>
	<971F401E-80C7-4B27-891C-BD5CF425AA52@daniels-mara.com>
	<47B6CB63-533E-47DA-B4FD-8A226579A8E5@openpartenrship.net>
Message-ID: <4DD9BEC7-8E9C-4D31-86B6-2375DD9DAEA7@daniels-mara.com>

David,

I am having trouble with the concept of selecting something without  
the user touching it. We could, of course, make a preference for this  
behavior.

Best,

Jerry

P.S. I hope you get treatment for that virus, too.

On Oct 20, 2005, at 2:42 PM, David Bovill wrote:

>
> On 20 Oct 2005, at 19:39, Jerry Daniels wrote:
>
>
>> We USED TO select the object during no-click inspection--if the  
>> pointer was chosen.
>>
>
> Recent version changed this right - kindo of liked it myself - now  
> I'm still stuck as i cant....
>
>
>> 1. The TITLE of Constellation's window has the full name of the  
>> object you're editing.
>> 2. The TAB that is dedicated to that object has the name of the  
>> object
>> 3. The PREVIEW (or copy) of the object is shown
>>
>> We figured after all that, it wasn't necessary to select the  
>> object during no-click inspection and risk the user forgetting  
>> that the object WAS selected.
>>
>> Hope that helps.
>>
>
> Not really - you see I have an object selector / browser like yours  
> just not as pretty :) I use it to "indicate an object" and then I  
> can create other tools which manipulate the object in some way.
>
> So for a clear example (thinking of writing a viral marketing  
> program for you):
>
>     1) I create a stack with one button and one field
>
>     2) I "select" the "field in my new stack"  in constellation  
> property or even script editor - the tab is open
>
>     3) I write a script which references the selected object -  
> ideally with a line like:
>
> on mouseUp
>         put the selected_ ConstellationObject into someObject
>         set the script of someObject to "Jerry Daniels is cool!"
> end mouseUp
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 25 00:16:40 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:16:40 -0700
Subject: Variable Watcher
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860510241951q441793d3x83e606618a974efa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BF82FFB8.2F826%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

I used to see this once in a while in pre 2.5.1 on Panther. (2.2.1
probably).  Found that relaunching Rev would get it working again.
Now on 2.5.1/Panther and all is well.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 10/24/05 7:51 PM, "Sarah Reichelt" <sarah.reichelt at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 10/25/05, Charles Hartman <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu> wrote:
>> --and while I'm complaining:
>> 
>> Variable Watcher is handy, and it's nice that the values (especially
>> of arrays) are shown in the lower panel. But that display is not
>> updated as you step through the script, so it often shows outdated
>> data. Wrong information is much worse than no information.
>> 
> 
> Hi Charles,
> 
> I have never experienced this and I often use the Variable Watcher for
> stepping through a script and checking the contents of variables as I
> go. Can you give some more information about what exactly fails? Is it
> just arrays - I don't use arrays much so if there is a problem with
> that, I probably wouldn't have seen it, but I am curious to know what
> makes the VW unreliable.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 25 00:37:05 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:37:05 -0700
Subject: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine 
In-Reply-To: <BF82EEF7.2E7B4%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <BF830481.2F82A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Ah, yes, this can be quite a quagmire, which is why I suggested that for
those of us who use regular expressions (but not on a regular basis)  'for
increased power and productivity', it might be useful to build a library of
forms and examples in Rev functions.

The trial-and-error nature is due to the 'alternate' thinking required .
Unfortunately, my projects don't really leave time for exhaustive testing
and I fear the exceptions/false-misses will hurt my programming result.  On
one project it will be a minor nuisance, and another, quite an expensive
"whooops".

The goal for me is not to see who can write the most clever/most fastest,
but instead, the most powerful yet understandable.  The key is to know
exactly what rules you are invoking in order to accurately predict the
result.

As I said before, gleaning pearls from an oily mess.
All of 'um, and only dem.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas
who will be organizing his regex beginning this week and sharing in the very
near future.


On 10/24/05 6:05 PM, "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

> On 10/24/05 5:40 PM, "Marielle Lange" <mlange at lexicall.org> wrote:
> 
>> 
>>> The other main issue is that Rev does not support all the fine
>>> nuances of Perl-style RegEx, though the docs say it does.
> 
> Actually, what they support is whatever comes with the PCRE engine, and is
> supported fully for matchText/matchChunk (AFAIK), whereas it seems like
> replaceText only seems to support a portion of PCRE (although I could be
> wrong).
> 
>> A problem is that their documentation doesn't match what their
>> functions. 
> 
> True, but they *do* say "Revolution implements regular expressions
> compatible with the PCRE library. For detailed information about regular
> expression elements you can use with this function, see the PCRE manual at
> <http://www.pcre.org/man.txt>."
> 
> And given the fact that regular expressions is a lengthy topic, I'm not too
> surprised that they have not explained them in detail.
> 
>> I was surprised to see Mark use \s and \S as they are not mentioned
>> in the documentation (which hasn't been updated to follow updates in
>> the function in version 2.5). Full information about these special
>> codes can be found below.
> 
> See above - I think they just want people to read the docs at pcre.org.
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Tue Oct 25 01:16:46 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:16:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <86ecb179312fc1ef2da952a9ca081bb2@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510242215160.8678-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

I suppose the obvious answer is that some of us are extremely dumb and not
looking...  'cuz we're not knowing  (agnostic??)

@;-)

Okay, so I only speak for myself... and my other self... and any other
voices hanging about...

Judy

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Oct 24, 2005, at 9:16 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
> > Why not use the user comment feature built into the Rev docs?
>
> I was wondering the same... wouldn't it be best to put them right where
> people are already looking?



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 25 01:38:49 2005
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:38:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Phishy Paypal -- "those guys pushing the envelope"
In-Reply-To: <p06200700bf82e91523f8@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <20051025053849.75434.qmail@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



--- Timothy Miller
<gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com> wrote:

> If you happen to notice a phishing message in
> mailbox shortly after
> it arrives, forward it immediately (including
> all headers) to
> spoof at paypal.com or spoof at ebay.com. If users
> keep doing this, some of
> these creeps will eventually get caught, and
> get severely punished.
> 
> If the phishing message is more than a few
> hours old, don't bother.

i did forward a phishy message to PayPal
and got an immediate response.

Erik Hansen


erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Oct 25 01:37:28 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 00:37:28 -0500
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510242215160.8678-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510242215160.8678-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <435DC498.7060906@chipp.com>

I seem to remember a bug in it where it would only save the last comments?

-Chipp


>>>Why not use the user comment feature built into the Rev docs?
>>
>>I was wondering the same... wouldn't it be best to put them right where
>>people are already looking?



From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Oct 25 01:59:19 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:59:19 -0400
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <435DC498.7060906@chipp.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510242215160.8678-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<435DC498.7060906@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <650c6f6108184d45f2f521d16d452e9e@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 25, 2005, at 1:37 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> I seem to remember a bug in it where it would only save the last 
> comments?

Well, that would put a damper on things. Would be nice to see that 
fixed, because it is probably the best way to have a system with 
longevity that both RR and the user base could contribute to ? as 
obviously intended.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Oct 25 02:16:27 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 23:16:27 -0700
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <435DC498.7060906@chipp.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510242215160.8678-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<435DC498.7060906@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <435DCDBB.6030505@fourthworld.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:

 >>>> Why not use the user comment feature built into the Rev docs?
 >>>
 >> I was wondering the same... wouldn't it be best to put them
 >> right where people are already looking?
 >
 > I seem to remember a bug in it where it would only save the
 > last comments?

Could be, but it seems simpler to fix a small bug than build an entirely 
separate system.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Tue Oct 25 02:50:06 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:50:06 +0200
Subject: (Pre) ANN: Pattern Toolkit Gallery
In-Reply-To: <435D4A45.1000901@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <OFED9D7931.C77BD3A3-ONC12570A5.00257D1C-C12570A5.00258BB2@deutsche-boerse.com>

Very impressive!

Im curious to see how you made that ;)

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 24/10/2005 22:55:33:

> I have added a gallery of images to my website 
> <http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia> (scroll down on the left and select 
> "Pattern Art").
> 
> The images are examples created with my "Pattern Toolkit" built with 
> Metacard/Revolution (for some reason it is impossible to build a 
> standalone of this stack in the Revolution IDE, but it is possible in 
> the leaner alternative Metacard IDE).
> 
> I intend to offer the toolkit as a free download in the middle of 
> November. The GUI of this up to now very personal tool needs first to be 

> cleaned up and organised, as there are more than 100 different functions 

> and algorithms to create basic color patterns and to transform them into 

> various secondary and tertiary patterns by means of different kinds of 
> overlays, shifting, rotating, creating multi-directional color 
> transitions (gradients), using vertical and horizontal flips and 
> (partial) mirrors etc..
> 
> The toolkit is a further development of an older tool that used small 
> fields as color units (compare my stack 
> <www.sanke.org/Software/RevTestStacks.zip> which is also attached to 
> Bugzilla 2217; see also my comments on page "Tools and Samples for 
> Development" on my website concerning the so far unresolved difficulties 

> for the Rev IDE).
> 
> The new toolkit now uses backcolors of chars in a 120x160 matrix 
> (instead of the former 5400 fields) to achieve a satisfactory resolution 

> that enables the user to enlarge the finally saved image. You can try 
> out this for yourself after downloading the real-size JPEG images.
> 
> 
>  To navigate to the individual images click on the thumbs.-
> 
> As usual, there remains the question of the intentions and the 
> usefulness of such a tool. I think a number of answers are possible.
> 
> In my experience it is a very creative tool, maybe mainly useless, but 
> somehow fascinating as I find myself spending long hours experimenting 
> with ever changing patterns.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Wilhelm Sanke
> <www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



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From mlange at lexicall.org  Tue Oct 25 05:51:00 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:51:00 +0100
Subject: Multilingual dialogues
Message-ID: <EB0E9B8B-C1C2-4C3F-B9D7-7FAA4CABA24A@lexicall.org>

On Oct 20, 2005, at 12:33 PM, David Bovill wrote:
> Thanks - sounds good. And perhaps if all the language stacks were  
> substacks of stack "Translations" or.... then it would be easy to  
> add another translation and a script could automatically figure out  
> how many were available?

Here is the trick I use:

On any object that requires localisation, create a custom property  
called something like

loc("Title","items")

  --- Note, a third parameter may need to be added to handle  
switching between multiple localisation  (depends if you want to give  
the user the opportunity to switch between languages or rather  
provide him with one localisation only)

Title is the tag, items is the column to fetch in the localisation  
file (here the column with the list of items to fill for a pulldown  
button).
You have a file with localisation information (here in German). I  
**strongly** recommend the localisation to be kept outside of  
revolution (though this may cause problems when unicode is required).

------------------------------------------------------------
Title    Title    Mein Title    Herr;Frau;Dr.;Mag
FirstName    Vorname    Meine Vorname
SecondName    Nachname
ArtistName    Kuenstler Name
------------------------------------------------------------

The structure of this file is as follows:
TagName    TagLabel    TagDescription    TagItems

Then you have this handler at card or stack level, as appropriate:
------------------------------------------------------------
#####################################################
##
##  Get Localisation Information
##
##            This Information is found in the file: localization.xml
##            The structure of this file is: Tag (tab) Localiz Label  
(tab) Localiz Description (tab) Localiz Items

function getLocalValue pLocal
   --- Easy way to recover column number according to column name ----
   set the itemdel to ","
   put "name,label,desc,items" into tLocalCols        --- this  
greatly simplifies maintainability of the code.
                                                                         
                  --- Only one line to modify if you change the  
structure of your local file
                                                                         
                  --- Could be defined as a constant (very top of the  
script)
   repeat with x = 1 to the number of items in tLocalCols
     put x into AColNb[item x of tLocalCols]
   end repeat
    
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------------------------------------
   split pLocal by ","      -- Tag, column name
   put getFileContent(pathLocaliz) into tLocal       -- This function  
is not provided here but it is obvious to understand what it does
                                                                         
                -- for me, I use constant pathLocaliz = "xml/ 
localization.xml" (replace by what is
                                                                         
                -- appropriate)
   put offset(cr & value(pLocal[1] ) & tab, tLocal) into tSTart; add  
1 to tStart
   if it > 0 then get offset(cr, tLocal, tStart+2)
   if tStart > 0 and it > 0 then
     put char tStart to (tStart+it) of tLocal into tLine
     set the itemdel to tab
     return item AColNb[value(pLocal[2] )] of tLine
   end if
   return Alocal
end getLocalValue
------------------------------------------------------------

Then you need to add some handlers at card level to automatically  
fill the content of any control which has a custom property cLoc that  
is not empty.

------------------------------------------------------------
on preopencard
   repeat with x = 1 to (the number of controls of this card)
     if the cLoc of control x of this card is empty then next repeat
     put (getLocalValue(char 5 to -2 of tItems)) into tLoc
     switch  (word 1 of the name of control x of this card)
     case "field"
     --- Fill the control as appropriate
     case "button"
     --- Fill the control as appropriate... pseudocode here
     if the style of control x is "menu" then
         --     replace ";" with cr in tLoc
         --     cLoc(tTag, "items") goes into the text
     else
         --     cLoc(tTag, "label") goes into the label
     end if
   end repeat
end preopencard

If you only have menu buttons, you can fill them automatically

Note that I am not processing unicode text here... The get local  
value and the preopencard handler should be modified to handle this.

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From mlange at lexicall.org  Tue Oct 25 06:06:08 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:06:08 +0100
Subject: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine
Message-ID: <1840D0D3-1223-4DAA-870B-2C0395EC062A@lexicall.org>

The concept of "greediness of the *" has been introduced. Let's  
expand. What this means is that when you parse any html or xml file,  
you have to be very careful if you know a same tag can occur many  
times in your document.

Simple example:
The <b> cat</b> under the <b>table</b> is...

if you use:
put replacetext(tText, "<b>.*</b>", "")

This will give you :
The  is...
because * tries to match as many characters as possible.

The way to handle this in php is to add a "?" after the *, to  
specifically indicate you want the "*" to be as ungreedy as possible
http://uk.php.net/manual/en/reference.pcre.pattern.modifiers.php

> U (PCRE_UNGREEDY)
> This modifier inverts the "greediness" of the quantifiers so that  
> they are not greedy by default, but become greedy if followed by  
> "?". It is not compatible with Perl. It can also be set by a (?U)  
> modifier setting within the pattern or by a question mark behind a  
> quantifier (e.g. .*?).
>
So, let's try:
put replacetext(tText, "<b>.*?</b>","")

He he, this gives the correct result:
The  under the  is...

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org





From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Oct 25 06:27:58 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:27:58 +0100
Subject: ANN: Image Jigsaw
In-Reply-To: <3f07cc260510241920t79b2e8fbt5e1b9725067ff4be@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200510242354.j9ONso1g028651@ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com>
	<3f07cc260510241920t79b2e8fbt5e1b9725067ff4be@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <435E08AE.8070504@tweedly.net>

Howard Bornstein wrote:

>On 10/24/05, Alex Tweedly <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:
>  
>
>>I've put the (very early) version of my jigsaw game up on RevOnline, and
>>on www.tweedly.net/RunRev
>>    
>>
>
>
>http://www.tweedly.net/RunRev/Image%20Jigsaw.rev -- File Not Found
>  
>
Sorry about that - I changed the name from "Image Jigsaw" to "Image 
jigsaw" - but still had the old one on the site. So when I tested it 
(and copied the URL to put in the email), it worked. Later I realized I 
still had an old file on there, and removed it (failing to notice the 
impact on my earlier testing).

http://www.tweedly.net/RunRev/Image%20jigsaw.rev

btw - it's now at version v0.1a   My primary tester said that "easy" 
mode was too easy and "hard" mode was way too hard. The next version 
will have a slider to provide more control - but this minor update made 
them more reasonable.
Easy : was 11 pieces, now 15
Hard : was 64 pieces, now 47

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net

-------------- next part --------------
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From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Oct 25 06:37:47 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:37:47 +0100
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <650c6f6108184d45f2f521d16d452e9e@rpsystems.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510242215160.8678-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>	<435DC498.7060906@chipp.com>
	<650c6f6108184d45f2f521d16d452e9e@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <435E0AFB.3000302@tweedly.net>

Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Oct 25, 2005, at 1:37 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:
>
>> I seem to remember a bug in it where it would only save the last 
>> comments?
>
>
> Well, that would put a damper on things. Would be nice to see that 
> fixed, because it is probably the best way to have a system with 
> longevity that both RR and the user base could contribute to ? as 
> obviously intended.

That needs to be fixed - and it also needs someone from RunRev to 
monitor the Notes and edit where necessary.

e.g. the Web Notes for allowFieldRedraw said   "hhgfk"
[  Until I exploited the above mentioned bug to remove it :-)   ]


But I don't see that as the sole answer; Web Notes should fix or clarify 
the existing docs. Extended examples or discussion (e.g. PCRE versus 
Perl RegEx) should go in a wiki (or somewhere) rather than in the docs.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/148 - Release Date: 25/10/2005



From mlange at lexicall.org  Tue Oct 25 06:42:42 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:42:42 +0100
Subject: docWikis
Message-ID: <51A9C83A-F937-4E51-B699-5F3D62C0A643@lexicall.org>

Hi Tim,

I found your comments really excellent. Thanks for them.

So the first thing we should be doing is to create standards for the  
representation of code and snippets to guarantee interoperability,  
ease of update, and exchange. I proposed Hugh (the author of the  
scripter's scrapbook ) to go in that direction, he was interested,  
asked for more info then I got busy and didn't follow up.

Okay, this is a group we can easily create completely open as it is  
in the very best interest of all list members (perhaps not Hugh though).

> Of course that would require standardized formats, or at least  
> easily convertible formats. I don't know enough about wikis to  
> understand the practicality.

The thing is that once you have information stored in a standard  
format, it is very easy to translate it from one environment to  
another.  In fact, if the list members were keen enough to take the 1  
minute required to format their reply in standard format, something  
like:

<instructions></instructions>
<comments></comments>
<code></code>

... it is possible to consider the automatic parsing of the  
contributions on the rev list. Again, cost to produce the standards.  
Once they are produced, maximum group benefit at minimal individual  
cost.

I will be away for a month (starting this Friday). I will take some  
notes before I go away (i.e., today).
But the time I am ready to spend on this is of course strongly  
influenced by the impact I can expect for my efforts (I like to  
contribute but not to waste my time). So can I ask members of this  
list to take the time to answer these three questions.

Where should we discuss the development of standards for rev code for  
maximum participation:
(a) somewhere neutral (yahoo group), (b) please not a yahoo group,  
(c) no preference.

I would like to help with the design of standards for rev code
(a) yes, (b) no, (c) not skilled enough

If standards are defined, then I am ready to use them in all emails I  
post to the rev mailing list, so they can be automatically parsed
(a) yes, (b) no, (c) don't understand

PLEASE, ***don't do it on this list**** (enough traffic already).   
For each one of these questions, You can tick a box at:
http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-take_survey.php?surveyId=1
This is completely anonymous and you don't need to be a registered  
user of the wiki to answer.

Many thanks!
Marielle
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From mlange at lexicall.org  Tue Oct 25 06:48:32 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:48:32 +0100
Subject: docWikis
Message-ID: <73B27EAC-18F4-48CF-B926-2C5228C2C81C@lexicall.org>

>> I think your best strategy would be to convince potential  
>> participants that their contributions will get recycled into other  
>> revDocWikis if yours does not grow and thrive. Accordingly, no  
>> contribution will ever be wasted.
>>
>
> I'm coming in late, so forgive me is this has already been answered:
> Why not use the user comment feature built into the Rev docs?

(1) not all members of this list have broadband
(2) is it a personal note or a shared note?
(3) what do they do with the comments? back to the same issue... Am I  
doing anything useful or wasting my time when editing comments.
(4) There is also the issue that comments are completely unstructured
(5) Can comments be reedited (improved upon) by other members?
(5) There is then the issue that with comments there is no space for  
adding information at widget level (a widget is defined as a group of  
controls achieving a specific action together... the excellent jigsaw  
puzzle contributed by Alex is a good example of this).

Marielle
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From mlange at lexicall.org  Tue Oct 25 07:05:38 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:05:38 +0100
Subject: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine + docWiki
Message-ID: <5F2C5B25-E4F6-4D92-B886-E5F1B4003698@lexicall.org>

Ken,

Many thanks for the information. As you probably realized, the  
problem is not that I am unfamiliar with PCRE (I have used it for a  
long times, in PHP), the problem is more that I never realized that  
revolution was now correctly implementing PCRE.

Sure, there is this mention at the very bottom of the matchtext  
function. "Changes to Transcript: The regular expression format  
changed in version 2.0 to use PCRE compatible syntax". But when I  
tried the PCRE syntax in version 2.1, they were not working properly.  
I read that in version 2.5 or 2.6 regular expressions had been  
improved but there is no mention of PCRE in the "regular expression  
syntax" popup and examples haven't changed.

So how was I supposed to know that this has been fixed?

Back to the idea of a community documentation system, compare the  
ease of reading and information finding for:
     http://www.pcre.org/man.txt
and
     http://uk.php.net/manual/en/reference.pcre.pattern.modifiers.php

Aren't the user contributed notes very handy too? Wouldn't doc on the  
web contribute to revolution visibility? Honestly, what I do use  
php.net for is for stealing ideas on how to code things... sometimes  
I translate this to revolution. A good wiki with rev doc could get  
other scripters very curious about revolution's extraordinary  
capabilities.

Marielle
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Oct 25 07:06:58 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:06:58 +0200
Subject: mk_libsmil1
Message-ID: <7C5F88AD-4627-4EF5-8690-A5327907A9E5@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

i just uploaded a little stack to Rev-Online that will generate a  
SMIL file
on the fly that you can use in a player-object.

SMIL = Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language
Please use GOOGLE to learn more about SMIL.

User: klausimausi
Stack: mk_libsmil1

(Actually it is just one function and not a complete library, but  
"LIB" sounds
much more important... ;-)

This way you can generate ONE file to play x soundfiles in a row in a  
player
without having to check if one sound has finished to start the next  
one...

AND this will also workaround the fricking OS X bug where you cannot use
files with loooong filenames (> 32 chars) and/or accents/umlauts in  
the pathnames!
Maybe you remember the postings from yesterday.

Works on Mac and windows.
Since Linux/Unix does not support QuickTime (yet), sorry for that X- 
users :-/

Drop a line if you have some questions.

Enjoy!


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From mlange at lexicall.org  Tue Oct 25 07:12:48 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:12:48 +0100
Subject: stack while debugging
Message-ID: <5E5730BA-337A-4667-9938-EBDA1A85D386@lexicall.org>

Another suggestion to improve debugging:

I can interrupt a script with command + "." (mac). But this doesn't  
work when I have an answer dialog popping on. Because on a mac an  
answer dialog is in "sheet" mode, it needs to be dismissed before my  
keyboard events get to influence the stack behaviour.

When in sheet mode, the menu is still accessible.... why not have an  
item "interrupt script" in the "Development" menu?

Marielle


> A while ago I wished that while debugging I had a stack, in the non- 
> Rev sense,  available to examine, and so as to change debugging  
> context. Somebody (sorry, I've forgotten who) pointed out that we  
> do have that: a pulldown menu in the Message Box.
>
> Good -- but it's usually wrong. The stack (in the Rev sense) I  
> need, which is the stack I'm in (using, debugging), isn't the one  
> auto-selected there -- that's another stack a couple of steps back.  
> It may be the last one *accessed* by Rev (I wrote something to it  
> from the current stack), but it isn't meaningfully the *current*  
> stack, the one I'm looking at, the one whose controls and variables  
> I want to access. So I keep typing stuff into the msg box that gets  
> errors because I'm not noticing it's paying attention to some other  
> stack.

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Tue Oct 25 07:52:47 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:52:47 -0400
Subject: Variable Watcher
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860510241951q441793d3x83e606618a974efa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <09C090CC-EFA1-4988-9FF6-90F36FCA05DC@conncoll.edu>
	<f99b52860510241951q441793d3x83e606618a974efa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5257C9D3-C505-4464-B2BE-A59ADF3D720B@conncoll.edu>

Well, I have a command in a loop that sends the elements of an array  
to be stored in a database. I put a breakpoint on the line with the  
command, and watch the value of the array. I know it's changing,  
because if I re-click the array's name in the upper panel of the  
Watcher, it updates to the expected value. But if I don't do that,  
the value is not "live" updated in the lower panel.

Charles Hartman


On Oct 24, 2005, at 10:51 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> On 10/25/05, Charles Hartman <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu> wrote:
>
>> --and while I'm complaining:
>>
>> Variable Watcher is handy, and it's nice that the values (especially
>> of arrays) are shown in the lower panel. But that display is not
>> updated as you step through the script, so it often shows outdated
>> data. Wrong information is much worse than no information.
>>
>>
>
> Hi Charles,
>
> I have never experienced this and I often use the Variable Watcher for
> stepping through a script and checking the contents of variables as I
> go. Can you give some more information about what exactly fails? Is it
> just arrays - I don't use arrays much so if there is a problem with
> that, I probably wouldn't have seen it, but I am curious to know what
> makes the VW unreliable.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Tue Oct 25 07:53:47 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:53:47 -0400
Subject: Variable Watcher
In-Reply-To: <BF82FFB8.2F826%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
References: <BF82FFB8.2F826%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3EB34FDC-8994-429C-95E9-E9D885E91575@conncoll.edu>

I'm using 2.6.1 on Tiger. Hm.

Charles Hartman


On Oct 25, 2005, at 12:16 AM, Jim Ault wrote:

> I used to see this once in a while in pre 2.5.1 on Panther. (2.2.1
> probably).  Found that relaunching Rev would get it working again.
> Now on 2.5.1/Panther and all is well.
>
> Jim Ault
> Las Vegas
>
>
> On 10/24/05 7:51 PM, "Sarah Reichelt" <sarah.reichelt at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>
>
>> On 10/25/05, Charles Hartman <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> --and while I'm complaining:
>>>
>>> Variable Watcher is handy, and it's nice that the values (especially
>>> of arrays) are shown in the lower panel. But that display is not
>>> updated as you step through the script, so it often shows outdated
>>> data. Wrong information is much worse than no information.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Hi Charles,
>>
>> I have never experienced this and I often use the Variable Watcher  
>> for
>> stepping through a script and checking the contents of variables as I
>> go. Can you give some more information about what exactly fails?  
>> Is it
>> just arrays - I don't use arrays much so if there is a problem with
>> that, I probably wouldn't have seen it, but I am curious to know what
>> makes the VW unreliable.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Sarah
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From tjframe at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 08:32:28 2005
From: tjframe at gmail.com (TJ Frame)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:32:28 -0700
Subject: Blend Grc Bug
Message-ID: <7348a9e80510250532j425c024dj1ffe6f5c28dad4a4@mail.gmail.com>

Found a new bug last night (running on Windows)
 I was playing around with the new 2.6.1 Vector Blend enhancement and I
accidentally assigned the Blend ink to a group and instead of happily
ignoring me like it does when you apply one of the other inks to a group,
the program freaked out - the group in question dissapears, window pixmaps
are all messed up etc. Ultimately I ended up having to ControlAlt-Delete to
get out of Rev.
 Happens each and every single time for me, but anyone wanna confirm this
when running on Windows 2000?
 - TJ


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 08:35:15 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:35:15 +1000
Subject: Variable Watcher
In-Reply-To: <5257C9D3-C505-4464-B2BE-A59ADF3D720B@conncoll.edu>
References: <09C090CC-EFA1-4988-9FF6-90F36FCA05DC@conncoll.edu>
	<f99b52860510241951q441793d3x83e606618a974efa@mail.gmail.com>
	<5257C9D3-C505-4464-B2BE-A59ADF3D720B@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510250535k1ec64ea3l7d50d3bb35d8f1f4@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/25/05, Charles Hartman <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu> wrote:
> Well, I have a command in a loop that sends the elements of an array
> to be stored in a database. I put a breakpoint on the line with the
> command, and watch the value of the array. I know it's changing,
> because if I re-click the array's name in the upper panel of the
> Watcher, it updates to the expected value. But if I don't do that,
> the value is not "live" updated in the lower panel.
>

OK, I get it now. When watching normal variables (not arrays), the
value displayed in the lower panel of the variable watcher is cleared
whenever the value changes, so you know you have to click in the upper
panel to see the updated value. The abbreviated value shown in the
upper panel changes automatically.

It sounds as if array values do not get cleared from the lower panel
when changed which as you say, causes confusion as incorrect data is
then being shown. How about filing a Bugzilla on this? It should
either update or clear, but not remain showing the previous value.

Cheers,
Sarah


From jhurley at infostations.com  Tue Oct 25 09:10:13 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:10:13 -0700
Subject: Setting custom properties
In-Reply-To: <20051025101324.826738250B0@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051025101324.826738250B0@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230919bf83dcbbf556@[69.85.136.180]>

I would like to be able to set a custom property to an evaluated 
string. In the following lines of script:


put "apples" & cr & "oranges" into tList
put "myGroceryList" & 3 into tName
set the tName of this card to tList

It appears that Run Rev will assign tList to the custom property 
myGroceryList3. But how does it know that the name of the custom 
property is myGroceryList3 and not tName? Does it check to see 
whether tName has a value in the script?

Risky business.

Jim


From mcdomi at free.fr  Tue Oct 25 09:16:00 2005
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:16:00 +0200
Subject: (Pre) ANN: Pattern Toolkit Gallery
In-Reply-To: <435D4A45.1000901@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <1h4zubi.iszj1i134xa1lM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Wilhelm Sanke <sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de> wrote:

> As usual, there remains the question of the intentions and the 
> usefulness of such a tool. I think a number of answers are possible.
> 
> In my experience it is a very creative tool, maybe mainly useless, but
> somehow fascinating as I find myself spending long hours experimenting
> with ever changing patterns.

desktop patterns ;-)

I'm as for now trying them, changing every 1 minute...
some of them are great -- with a problem of "margins", sometimes!

-- 
Revolutionario



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Tue Oct 25 09:14:35 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:14:35 -0400
Subject: database
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968317@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

Marielle...

What is your site for the revdoc wiki again?

Does it have the whole revDocs on it?

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Marielle
Lange
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 6:54 PM
To: use Revolution How to
Subject: RE: database

"I must be the change I want to see in the world."  -- Gandhi

Funny, this is my favorite quote too. Though the version I know is:
"Be The Change You Wish To See In The World"

Though the original version apparently is:
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world"
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/500hats/51508584/)

Am I using this to encourage others to follow your example... I will  
only say that I strongly believe in this quote.

Marielle
------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Oct 25 09:26:47 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:26:47 -0700
Subject: Setting custom properties
In-Reply-To: <p06230919bf83dcbbf556@[69.85.136.180]>
References: <20051025101324.826738250B0@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230919bf83dcbbf556@[69.85.136.180]>
Message-ID: <435E3297.9050802@fourthworld.com>

Jim Hurley wrote:
> I would like to be able to set a custom property to an evaluated string. 
> In the following lines of script:
> 
> put "apples" & cr & "oranges" into tList
> put "myGroceryList" & 3 into tName
> set the tName of this card to tList
> 
> It appears that Run Rev will assign tList to the custom property 
> myGroceryList3. But how does it know that the name of the custom 
> property is myGroceryList3 and not tName? Does it check to see whether 
> tName has a value in the script?

You've implicitely declared it by using it as a variable in the line 
before.  If a token is in the local variable table it'll be used as such.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Tue Oct 25 09:52:01 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:52:01 -0400
Subject: docWikis
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968319@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

I just checked the webnotes for allowFieldRedraw, and they said "hkhfkj"

Maybe the webnotes system isn't working yet?

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Alex
Tweedly
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 6:38 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: docWikis

Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Oct 25, 2005, at 1:37 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:
>
>> I seem to remember a bug in it where it would only save the last 
>> comments?
>
>
> Well, that would put a damper on things. Would be nice to see that 
> fixed, because it is probably the best way to have a system with 
> longevity that both RR and the user base could contribute to - as 
> obviously intended.

That needs to be fixed - and it also needs someone from RunRev to 
monitor the Notes and edit where necessary.

e.g. the Web Notes for allowFieldRedraw said   "hhgfk"
[  Until I exploited the above mentioned bug to remove it :-)   ]


But I don't see that as the sole answer; Web Notes should fix or clarify

the existing docs. Extended examples or discussion (e.g. PCRE versus 
Perl RegEx) should go in a wiki (or somewhere) rather than in the docs.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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_______________________________________________
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use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
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From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Oct 25 10:41:22 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:41:22 +0200
Subject: Blend Grc Bug
In-Reply-To: <7348a9e80510250532j425c024dj1ffe6f5c28dad4a4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051025140810.A35648248A4@mail.runrev.com>

There's another bug where you can't set the blendlevel of the group!

Another one when you stop dragging a control in the blend group where
the selected control stops being transparent...
 
but I haven't had a crash or a problem freezing rev with it that I
remember... And I am in W2K...

What's in your group?

X

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of TJ Frame
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 2:32 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Blend Grc Bug
> 
> Found a new bug last night (running on Windows)  I was 
> playing around with the new 2.6.1 Vector Blend enhancement 
> and I accidentally assigned the Blend ink to a group and 
> instead of happily ignoring me like it does when you apply 
> one of the other inks to a group, the program freaked out - 
> the group in question dissapears, window pixmaps are all 
> messed up etc. Ultimately I ended up having to 
> ControlAlt-Delete to get out of Rev.
>  Happens each and every single time for me, but anyone wanna 
> confirm this when running on Windows 2000?
>  - TJ
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Tue Oct 25 10:43:16 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:43:16 +0100
Subject: mk_libsmil1
In-Reply-To: <7C5F88AD-4627-4EF5-8690-A5327907A9E5@major-k.de>
References: <7C5F88AD-4627-4EF5-8690-A5327907A9E5@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <E8A99DB3-4761-478C-8666-0577C3E14A6D@lacscentre.co.uk>

On 25 Oct 2005, at 12:06, Klaus Major wrote:

> Hi friends,
>
> i just uploaded a little stack to Rev-Online that will generate a  
> SMIL file
> on the fly that you can use in a player-object.
>
> SMIL = Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language
> Please use GOOGLE to learn more about SMIL.
>
> User: klausimausi
> Stack: mk_libsmil1
>
> (Actually it is just one function and not a complete library, but  
> "LIB" sounds
> much more important... ;-)

The underscore combined with "lib" in "mk_libsmil1" makes it look  
even more important (and difficult), and of course it runs faster  
when named this way. :-)

But I found a bug. There is a stray "break" command in the  
"makemesmile" function (in the part for Mac users).  Removing the  
"break" fixed things (except for the strange picture on the opening  
card :-)).

A great little tool. Subarashii. Thanks, Klaus.

Dave



From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Oct 25 10:44:04 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:44:04 +0100
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968319@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968319@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <435E44B4.70907@tweedly.net>

Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

>I just checked the webnotes for allowFieldRedraw, and they said "hkhfkj"
>
>Maybe the webnotes system isn't working yet?
>
>  
>
More likely is that I'm just not good at exploiting apparent weaknesses :-)

Maybe the Web Notes special case the situation where the uploaded note 
is empty.

Maybe uploaded notes only get refreshed daily.


or ....

Maybe this is why a Wiki *might* work while Web Notes (based on the last 
9 months experience or so since they were introduced) demonstrably don't 
work.


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/148 - Release Date: 25/10/2005



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Oct 25 10:54:55 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:54:55 +0200
Subject: mk_libsmil1
In-Reply-To: <E8A99DB3-4761-478C-8666-0577C3E14A6D@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <7C5F88AD-4627-4EF5-8690-A5327907A9E5@major-k.de>
	<E8A99DB3-4761-478C-8666-0577C3E14A6D@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1D106C4D-DD50-4DB2-84AC-73E9E101EA96@major-k.de>

Konichi-wa Cragg-san,

> On 25 Oct 2005, at 12:06, Klaus Major wrote:
>> Hi friends,
>>
>> i just uploaded a little stack to Rev-Online that will generate a  
>> SMIL file
>> on the fly that you can use in a player-object.
>>
>> SMIL = Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language
>> Please use GOOGLE to learn more about SMIL.
>>
>> User: klausimausi
>> Stack: mk_libsmil1
>>
>> (Actually it is just one function and not a complete library, but  
>> "LIB" sounds
>> much more important... ;-)
>
> The underscore combined with "lib" in "mk_libsmil1" makes it look  
> even more important (and difficult), and of course it runs faster  
> when named this way. :-)

You bet! :-)

> But I found a bug. There is a stray "break" command in the  
> "makemesmile" function (in the part for Mac users).

Ah, sorry for the inconvenience.

Removed it and now i have to find out how to update a stack in  
Revonline ;-)

> Removing the "break" fixed things (except for the strange picture  
> on the opening card :-)).

Hey, hey, hey! ;-)

> A great little tool. Subarashii. Thanks, Klaus.
>
> Dave

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Tue Oct 25 11:08:31 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:08:31 -0400
Subject: docWikis
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A974464E@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

I really like the wiki idea...

Webnotes seems great on the surface... But having the docs in a wiki
means we get to modify whatever we want. We can add comments after the
initial document. We can link to examples, related webpages, and the
like. We can even fix the original documents if absolutely necessary. We
can post examples of how to use a command, or how to combine commands.
We can also add in new pages to the docs that really should be there...

Like how to use the tab panel button, how to use tables, the quirks of
nested groups (I can write this one), and many other examples...

And we can make it such that any contributions are automatically public
domain, meaning RunRev would be free to take any contributions to add or
modify the original documents as needed. And, of course, the contributor
gets to put in a link or two to his or her homepage, in case that might
lead to new business for them.

In fact...

I copied a few pages from the docs into a practice wiki, just to see if
it would be practical and to experiment with:

http://www.seedwiki.com/wiki/runtime_revolution_docs/runtime_revolution_
docs.cfm


I think it would not be too difficult to set up, and would be worth the
effort. However, I don't want to step on anyone else's toes who has
already started on such a thing (like Marielle) - I just did it as a
test of practicality.

It would become a habit for us... When someone posts a good script, like
Chipp's windows document launching script, then the others respond by
saying...
"Hey, great script, please add it to the wiki..."

Or when someone explains how to use certain commands...

"Awesome advice, please note that in the docwiki..."


It would be similar to the way we currently tell folks to use bugzilla
when they find a bug.

And when a newbie asks a frequently asked question, we can respond by
saying... "Oh no problem, please just check out the docwiki at
so-and-so"

I see it as something that would increase efficiency across the board...
Better for RunRev, and better for all of us.


-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Alex
Tweedly
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 10:44 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: docWikis

Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

>I just checked the webnotes for allowFieldRedraw, and they said
"hkhfkj"
>
>Maybe the webnotes system isn't working yet?
>
>  
>
More likely is that I'm just not good at exploiting apparent weaknesses
:-)

Maybe the Web Notes special case the situation where the uploaded note 
is empty.

Maybe uploaded notes only get refreshed daily.


or ....

Maybe this is why a Wiki *might* work while Web Notes (based on the last

9 months experience or so since they were introduced) demonstrably don't

work.


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/148 - Release Date:
25/10/2005

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
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From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Oct 25 11:20:07 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:20:07 -0700
Subject: Multilingual dialogues
In-Reply-To: <944B2208-4BCA-4B49-9EA7-6BC723FF7804@openpartenrship.net>
References: <OFFA038656.16483DFE-ONC125709F.003DF45D-C125709F.003E8025@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<EDF71046-E753-4234-9CFF-D883EA0033D7@openpartenrship.net>
	<6.2.1.2.1.20051020072914.01f043f0@pop3.pon.net>
	<944B2208-4BCA-4B49-9EA7-6BC723FF7804@openpartenrship.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20051025075520.01efcc10@pop3.pon.net>

David,

>Had a go with the Profile Manager - but not managed to get it to work
>reliably

The problem I have with using the Profile Manager is, AFAIK, there is no 
way for the user to add a new profile at runtime; so you're stuck with the 
languages set up when the app ships.  Updating menu & menuItem names, tool 
tips, dialog prompts, error messages, etc. from a file, local or global 
variable allows your app to be user-translatable -- not limited to support 
for built in languages.

BTW, I use icons with translatable tool tips in place of label text 
fields.  I think it gives my apps a more international feel.

Also, it's fairly simple to design a translation stack that opens a text 
file, displays the contents one line at a time above an empty field where 
the translator can type the text in another language, and saves the 
completed translation in a new file.  This is much friendlier than telling 
the user, "Use you text editor to translate the language file" me thinks.

You might check out how Serendipity Library does it (including the 
translation substack) <http://wecode.org/serendipity/>.  To do so:

* Download sdbTools.rev and place it in the Revolution PlugIn folder
* Download Serendipity_Library.rev and place it in the folder you use for 
Revolution development & testing
* Download Serendipity_Library.sga, and expand the archive using 
sdbTools'  "Expand a Folder" menuItem under "File"
* See the Read Me stacks in the archive folder

Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
  Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

  from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) 



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Oct 25 11:52:19 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:52:19 -0700
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <435E44B4.70907@tweedly.net>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968319@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<435E44B4.70907@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <612147588.20051025085219@ahsoftware.net>

Alex-

Tuesday, October 25, 2005, 7:44:04 AM, you wrote:

> Maybe this is why a Wiki *might* work while Web Notes (based on the last
> 9 months experience or so since they were introduced) demonstrably don't
> work.

I notice that the Web Notes I have uploaded have just disappeared into
the void. I don't know whether they were vetted and rejected, whether
they never made it to the destination, whether they were overwritten
by someone else, whether I should resubmit them, etc. I've got notes
scribbled in my hardcopy of the docs and there they remain, for my
eyes only.

It's really not worth my while trying to type these things in anymore.
If this is an attempt at a wiki sort of approach it's a failure. If
it's trying to implement a Bugzilla enhancement request feature, it
also isn't accomplishing that. What Web Notes are and how they work
has never been documented. Maybe you have to type "hkhfkj" in order
for them to stick?

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Tue Oct 25 11:54:01 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:54:01 -0500
Subject: 2.6.1 QT audio bug
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051025105247.289d9498@exchange.slg.com>

I have an invisible player that I am using to play audio.  It worked fine 
in 2.6.  It doesn't work in 2.6.1.  On Windows it plays the first few words 
and then is cut off.  Has anyone seen this?  I am playing MP3 files 
(actually .swa file that have been renamed .mp3)

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Oct 25 12:04:45 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:04:45 -0700
Subject: Variable Watcher
In-Reply-To: <5257C9D3-C505-4464-B2BE-A59ADF3D720B@conncoll.edu>
References: <09C090CC-EFA1-4988-9FF6-90F36FCA05DC@conncoll.edu>
	<f99b52860510241951q441793d3x83e606618a974efa@mail.gmail.com>
	<5257C9D3-C505-4464-B2BE-A59ADF3D720B@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <102893280.20051025090445@ahsoftware.net>

Charles-

Tuesday, October 25, 2005, 4:52:47 AM, you wrote:

> Well, I have a command in a loop that sends the elements of an array
> to be stored in a database. I put a breakpoint on the line with the
> command, and watch the value of the array. I know it's changing,  
> because if I re-click the array's name in the upper panel of the  
> Watcher, it updates to the expected value. But if I don't do that,  
> the value is not "live" updated in the lower panel.

Ah. OK - now it becomes clear. I think the implementation of arrays in
the Variable Watcher is a work in progress. It's probably related to
the fact that you can change the value of variables in the VW on the
fly but can't (yet) change the values of array elements.

See BZ #870, 1199, 1564

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From david at openpartnership.net  Tue Oct 25 12:05:00 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:05:00 +0200
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <86ecb179312fc1ef2da952a9ca081bb2@rpsystems.net>
References: <79FECED7-2E6E-408D-BF46-F6888225067D@lexicall.org>
	<p06200701bf832b2aa0fe@[10.0.1.2]>
	<435D8778.8010601@fourthworld.com>
	<86ecb179312fc1ef2da952a9ca081bb2@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <D12D2CA0-FA8C-4AC0-A9AF-3B6F527B75F6@openpartnership.net>

On 25 Oct 2005, at 03:26, Troy Rollins wrote:

> On Oct 24, 2005, at 9:16 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>
>> Why not use the user comment feature built into the Rev docs?
>
> I was wondering the same... wouldn't it be best to put them right  
> where people are already looking?

Sure - but they are "user docs" no - not shared / collaborative.  
Admit that I have never used it because of this assumption :)


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Oct 25 12:07:53 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:07:53 +0200
Subject: 2.6.1 QT audio bug
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051025105247.289d9498@exchange.slg.com>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20051025105247.289d9498@exchange.slg.com>
Message-ID: <EE613E80-E0AE-41BE-BC40-C3260AB7842B@major-k.de>

Hi Peter,

> I have an invisible player that I am using to play audio.  It  
> worked fine in 2.6.  It doesn't work in 2.6.1.  On Windows it plays  
> the first few words and then is cut off.  Has anyone seen this?  I  
> am playing MP3 files (actually .swa file that have been renamed .mp3)

if i remember correctly this is an older (than 2.6.1) bug.

Just making your player visible again and putting it offscreen
(e.g. -1000,-1000) should make it play correctly again.

Please tell me if i am right (or not :-)

> Peter T. Evensen
> http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
> 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Tue Oct 25 12:01:59 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:01:59 -0400
Subject: docWikis
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A996831E@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

For an example of how a note added to a doc could be useful, please look
at this page:

http://www.seedwiki.com/wiki/runtime_revolution_docs/altid_property.cfm?
wpid=213569

apologies if the link is broken, you might have to cut and paste the
whole link into your browser for it to work.

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Lynch,
Jonathan
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 11:09 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: RE: docWikis

I really like the wiki idea...

Webnotes seems great on the surface... But having the docs in a wiki
means we get to modify whatever we want. We can add comments after the
initial document. We can link to examples, related webpages, and the
like. We can even fix the original documents if absolutely necessary. We
can post examples of how to use a command, or how to combine commands.
We can also add in new pages to the docs that really should be there...

Like how to use the tab panel button, how to use tables, the quirks of
nested groups (I can write this one), and many other examples...

And we can make it such that any contributions are automatically public
domain, meaning RunRev would be free to take any contributions to add or
modify the original documents as needed. And, of course, the contributor
gets to put in a link or two to his or her homepage, in case that might
lead to new business for them.

In fact...

I copied a few pages from the docs into a practice wiki, just to see if
it would be practical and to experiment with:

http://www.seedwiki.com/wiki/runtime_revolution_docs/runtime_revolution_
docs.cfm


I think it would not be too difficult to set up, and would be worth the
effort. However, I don't want to step on anyone else's toes who has
already started on such a thing (like Marielle) - I just did it as a
test of practicality.

It would become a habit for us... When someone posts a good script, like
Chipp's windows document launching script, then the others respond by
saying...
"Hey, great script, please add it to the wiki..."

Or when someone explains how to use certain commands...

"Awesome advice, please note that in the docwiki..."


It would be similar to the way we currently tell folks to use bugzilla
when they find a bug.

And when a newbie asks a frequently asked question, we can respond by
saying... "Oh no problem, please just check out the docwiki at
so-and-so"

I see it as something that would increase efficiency across the board...
Better for RunRev, and better for all of us.


-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Alex
Tweedly
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 10:44 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: docWikis

Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

>I just checked the webnotes for allowFieldRedraw, and they said
"hkhfkj"
>
>Maybe the webnotes system isn't working yet?
>
>  
>
More likely is that I'm just not good at exploiting apparent weaknesses
:-)

Maybe the Web Notes special case the situation where the uploaded note 
is empty.

Maybe uploaded notes only get refreshed daily.


or ....

Maybe this is why a Wiki *might* work while Web Notes (based on the last

9 months experience or so since they were introduced) demonstrably don't

work.


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/148 - Release Date:
25/10/2005

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use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
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From revlist at cableone.net  Tue Oct 25 12:09:17 2005
From: revlist at cableone.net (Chris Sheffield)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:09:17 -0600
Subject: 2.6.1 QT audio bug
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051025105247.289d9498@exchange.slg.com>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20051025105247.289d9498@exchange.slg.com>
Message-ID: <25950B79-3362-403F-A89D-22F5FD0B0B80@cableone.net>

Hi Peter,

Try setting the player to visible, but move it off screen.  Does that  
fix the problem?  I remember some similar issues in pre-2.6 versions  
of Rev, and keeping the player visible fixed them.  Maybe something  
got broken again between 2.6 and 2.6.1.

Chris


On Oct 25, 2005, at 9:54 AM, Peter T. Evensen wrote:

> I have an invisible player that I am using to play audio.  It  
> worked fine in 2.6.  It doesn't work in 2.6.1.  On Windows it plays  
> the first few words and then is cut off.  Has anyone seen this?  I  
> am playing MP3 files (actually .swa file that have been renamed .mp3)
>
> Peter T. Evensen
> http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
> 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

------------------------------------------
Chris Sheffield
Read Naturally
The Fluency Company
http://www.readnaturally.com
------------------------------------------




From david at openpartnership.net  Tue Oct 25 12:11:00 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:11:00 +0200
Subject: Constellation: any way to get equivalent of the selectedObject?
In-Reply-To: <4DD9BEC7-8E9C-4D31-86B6-2375DD9DAEA7@daniels-mara.com>
References: <B42634E2-C13B-43B1-BE27-2904AB2D8C46@danshafer.com>	<0DAD9B84-44BA-435F-80E9-CEAEB4E9C169@openpartenrship.net>	<a05210606bf7ac1f2cad5@[192.168.0.101]>	<CC443F5E-30AC-4233-B7A8-EDD2B45F0334@danshafer.com>
	<EE555764-36F5-4908-AD88-BA08667B8409@conncoll.edu>
	<435535EC.2020809@fourthworld.com>
	<4B7D9C22-6B46-40A4-8D9A-BBBF170D805F@conncoll.edu>
	<90A514A0-F870-4333-A829-8A6445DDA704@conncoll.edu>
	<E77BCBCD-7E71-49ED-B584-FBC2966B5715@openpartenrship.net>
	<971F401E-80C7-4B27-891C-BD5CF425AA52@daniels-mara.com>
	<47B6CB63-533E-47DA-B4FD-8A226579A8E5@openpartenrship.net>
	<4DD9BEC7-8E9C-4D31-86B6-2375DD9DAEA7@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <CAD67535-267C-40D3-99DA-98A06E19CD39@openpartnership.net>

On 25 Oct 2005, at 05:54, Jerry Daniels wrote:

> David,
>
> I am having trouble with the concept of selecting something without  
> the user touching it. We could, of course, make a preference for  
> this behavior.

? That is the behaviour of Constellation no - select in object  
browser and manipulate - even though object is not selected (and now  
seems not to be selected even if using Rev inspector and only  
Constellation Script editing).

It is just that I want to know what object is indicated (but not  
actually selected if you get my inadequate struggle for terminology  
here) from my own tools / scripts. This would require you to expose  
your code as a nice easy API along the lines of Richards post?

>
> P.S. I hope you get treatment for that virus, too.

Well as you are the infective agent - I'd prefer not :)


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 25 12:13:13 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:13:13 -0500
Subject: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine + docWiki
In-Reply-To: <5F2C5B25-E4F6-4D92-B886-E5F1B4003698@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <BF83C3C9.2E875%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/25/05 6:05 AM, "Marielle Lange" <mlange at lexicall.org> wrote:

> Many thanks for the information. As you probably realized, the
> problem is not that I am unfamiliar with PCRE (I have used it for a
> long times, in PHP), the problem is more that I never realized that
> revolution was now correctly implementing PCRE.

Actually, I didn't realize that, but thanks for making me aware of it. :-)
 
> Sure, there is this mention at the very bottom of the matchtext
> function. "Changes to Transcript: The regular expression format
> changed in version 2.0 to use PCRE compatible syntax". But when I
> tried the PCRE syntax in version 2.1, they were not working properly.
> I read that in version 2.5 or 2.6 regular expressions had been
> improved but there is no mention of PCRE in the "regular expression
> syntax" popup and examples haven't changed.
> 
> So how was I supposed to know that this has been fixed?

This is a longstanding issue with RunRev which only in the most recent
(2.6.1) version has there been visible effort: knowing what's been fixed
between versions of Rev. Unfortunately the only way to know is to try it
again each release and see if it works... <sigh>
 
> Back to the idea of a community documentation system, compare the
> ease of reading and information finding for:
>      http://www.pcre.org/man.txt
> and
>      http://uk.php.net/manual/en/reference.pcre.pattern.modifiers.php
> 
> Aren't the user contributed notes very handy too? Wouldn't doc on the
> web contribute to revolution visibility? Honestly, what I do use
> php.net for is for stealing ideas on how to code things... sometimes
> I translate this to revolution. A good wiki with rev doc could get
> other scripters very curious about revolution's extraordinary
> capabilities.

Oh, I totally agree!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com




From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Tue Oct 25 12:14:53 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:14:53 -0400
Subject: Variable Watcher
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860510250535k1ec64ea3l7d50d3bb35d8f1f4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <09C090CC-EFA1-4988-9FF6-90F36FCA05DC@conncoll.edu>
	<f99b52860510241951q441793d3x83e606618a974efa@mail.gmail.com>
	<5257C9D3-C505-4464-B2BE-A59ADF3D720B@conncoll.edu>
	<f99b52860510250535k1ec64ea3l7d50d3bb35d8f1f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9E325FF5-F07F-41F6-B02F-AE070E0EA5F6@conncoll.edu>

I don't have time to check at this minute -- but I'll take Mark W's  
message (a little farther down the list) to mean that this has  
already been BZ'd . . . right?

Charles

On Oct 25, 2005, at 8:35 AM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> On 10/25/05, Charles Hartman <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu> wrote:
>
>> Well, I have a command in a loop that sends the elements of an array
>> to be stored in a database. I put a breakpoint on the line with the
>> command, and watch the value of the array. I know it's changing,
>> because if I re-click the array's name in the upper panel of the
>> Watcher, it updates to the expected value. But if I don't do that,
>> the value is not "live" updated in the lower panel.
>>
>>
>
> OK, I get it now. When watching normal variables (not arrays), the
> value displayed in the lower panel of the variable watcher is cleared
> whenever the value changes, so you know you have to click in the upper
> panel to see the updated value. The abbreviated value shown in the
> upper panel changes automatically.
>
> It sounds as if array values do not get cleared from the lower panel
> when changed which as you say, causes confusion as incorrect data is
> then being shown. How about filing a Bugzilla on this? It should
> either update or clear, but not remain showing the previous value.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Tue Oct 25 12:35:08 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:35:08 -0700
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <435D8778.8010601@fourthworld.com>
References: <79FECED7-2E6E-408D-BF46-F6888225067D@lexicall.org>
	<p06200701bf832b2aa0fe@[10.0.1.2]> <435D8778.8010601@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <p06200700bf840c0253ed@[10.0.1.2]>

>Timothy Miller wrote:
>>I think your best strategy would be to convince potential 
>>participants that their contributions will get recycled into other 
>>revDocWikis if yours does not grow and thrive. Accordingly, no 
>>contribution will ever be wasted.
>
>I'm coming in late, so forgive me is this has already been answered:
>
>Why not use the user comment feature built into the Rev docs?

Derr.... Never noticed this feature. No one on this thread, which has 
trickled on and off for months, has mentioned it. Didn't know it 
exists. Waitaminnit...

Okay, I have noticed the "edit web notes" icon, but never knew what 
it does. If it's ever mentioned on the list, I've overlooked it. I 
see the "download and show web notes" checkbox. I checked it and 
tried a few things in the docs stacks, but nothing different 
happened. I searched the documentation for "web notes" but didn't 
find anything.

What the heck are web notes, and how do they work?

Cheers,


Tim


From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Tue Oct 25 12:36:31 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:36:31 -0500
Subject: 2.6.1 QT audio bug
In-Reply-To: <25950B79-3362-403F-A89D-22F5FD0B0B80@cableone.net>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20051025105247.289d9498@exchange.slg.com>
	<25950B79-3362-403F-A89D-22F5FD0B0B80@cableone.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051025113507.28ca1f90@exchange.slg.com>

That does fix the problem.

It did work in 2.5 and 2.6.  I guess something did get broken between 2.6 
and 2.6.1 :(

This is why I hated upgrading Metrowerks!  It always broke something.

Now I have to go find all my invisible players and make them visible and 
move them off screen.

At 11:09 AM 10/25/2005, you wrote:
>Hi Peter,
>
>Try setting the player to visible, but move it off screen.  Does that
>fix the problem?  I remember some similar issues in pre-2.6 versions
>of Rev, and keeping the player visible fixed them.  Maybe something
>got broken again between 2.6 and 2.6.1.
>
>Chris
>
>
>On Oct 25, 2005, at 9:54 AM, Peter T. Evensen wrote:
>
>>I have an invisible player that I am using to play audio.  It
>>worked fine in 2.6.  It doesn't work in 2.6.1.  On Windows it plays
>>the first few words and then is cut off.  Has anyone seen this?  I
>>am playing MP3 files (actually .swa file that have been renamed .mp3)
>>
>>Peter T. Evensen
>>http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
>>24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-revolution mailing list
>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>subscription preferences:
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>------------------------------------------
>Chris Sheffield
>Read Naturally
>The Fluency Company
>http://www.readnaturally.com
>------------------------------------------
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Oct 25 12:48:57 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:48:57 -0700
Subject: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine + docWiki
In-Reply-To: <5F2C5B25-E4F6-4D92-B886-E5F1B4003698@lexicall.org>
References: <5F2C5B25-E4F6-4D92-B886-E5F1B4003698@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <1275544803.20051025094857@ahsoftware.net>

Marielle-

Tuesday, October 25, 2005, 4:05:38 AM, you wrote:

> Sure, there is this mention at the very bottom of the matchtext
> function. "Changes to Transcript: The regular expression format  
> changed in version 2.0 to use PCRE compatible syntax". But when I  
> tried the PCRE syntax in version 2.1, they were not working properly.
> I read that in version 2.5 or 2.6 regular expressions had been  
> improved but there is no mention of PCRE in the "regular expression
> syntax" popup and examples haven't changed.

> So how was I supposed to know that this has been fixed?

Fixed? I think the best way to explain regular expressions in runrev
is that it supports a sparsely-documented subset of PCRE compatible
syntax and that subset can change at any time.

BZ #428, 2805, 3198

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 25 13:28:36 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:28:36 -0500
Subject: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine + docWiki
In-Reply-To: <1275544803.20051025094857@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <BF83D574.2E890%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/25/05 11:48 AM, "Mark Wieder" <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:

> Marielle-
> 
> Tuesday, October 25, 2005, 4:05:38 AM, you wrote:
> 
>> Sure, there is this mention at the very bottom of the matchtext
>> function. "Changes to Transcript: The regular expression format
>> changed in version 2.0 to use PCRE compatible syntax". But when I
>> tried the PCRE syntax in version 2.1, they were not working properly.
>> I read that in version 2.5 or 2.6 regular expressions had been
>> improved but there is no mention of PCRE in the "regular expression
>> syntax" popup and examples haven't changed.
> 
>> So how was I supposed to know that this has been fixed?
> 
> Fixed? I think the best way to explain regular expressions in runrev
> is that it supports a sparsely-documented subset of PCRE compatible
> syntax and that subset can change at any time.
> 
> BZ #428, 2805, 3198

Actually, it *should* support the full form of PCRE, since that is the
library that was used when the put it into the engine. The bugs you identify
above are all enhancement requests, so they are not representative of actual
bugs with the engine - in fact the only other two bugs I could find were
related to docs and not PCRE support at all.

So AFAICT we have a full and complete PCRE implementation here, with no
'real' bugs associated with it.


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Oct 25 13:33:21 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:33:21 +0200
Subject: Multilingual dialogues
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.1.20051025075520.01efcc10@pop3.pon.net>
Message-ID: <20051025170004.D6AF382518D@mail.runrev.com>

Here's my link to TAOO's language GUI manager article I just put up!

http://www.monsieurx.com/tiki/tiki-view_articles.php

It's 4 scripts long, but there's far more in a new stack im building
for the purpose of GUI language translations. 

While the real "dialog" version is not there yet, there is already 
a few 1000 expressions in more than 20 languages ready to be used. 

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Rob Cozens
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:20 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Multilingual dialogues
> 
> David,
> 
> >Had a go with the Profile Manager - but not managed to get 
> it to work 
> >reliably
> 
> The problem I have with using the Profile Manager is, AFAIK, 
> there is no way for the user to add a new profile at runtime; 
> so you're stuck with the languages set up when the app ships. 
>  Updating menu & menuItem names, tool tips, dialog prompts, 
> error messages, etc. from a file, local or global variable 
> allows your app to be user-translatable -- not limited to 
> support for built in languages.
> 
> BTW, I use icons with translatable tool tips in place of 
> label text fields.  I think it gives my apps a more 
> international feel.
> 
> Also, it's fairly simple to design a translation stack that 
> opens a text file, displays the contents one line at a time 
> above an empty field where the translator can type the text 
> in another language, and saves the completed translation in a 
> new file.  This is much friendlier than telling the user, 
> "Use you text editor to translate the language file" me thinks.
> 
> You might check out how Serendipity Library does it 
> (including the translation substack) 
> <http://wecode.org/serendipity/>.  To do so:
> 
> * Download sdbTools.rev and place it in the Revolution PlugIn folder
> * Download Serendipity_Library.rev and place it in the folder 
> you use for Revolution development & testing
> * Download Serendipity_Library.sga, and expand the archive 
> using sdbTools'  "Expand a Folder" menuItem under "File"
> * See the Read Me stacks in the archive folder
> 
> Rob Cozens CCW
> Serendipity Software Company
> 
> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
>   Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
> 
>   from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mcdomi at free.fr  Tue Oct 25 13:31:17 2005
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:31:17 +0200
Subject: Phishy Paypal -- "those guys pushing the envelope"
In-Reply-To: <20051025053849.75434.qmail@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1h505ym.1mji7ra14wfilmM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Erik Hansen <erikhans08 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> i did forward a phishy message to PayPal
> and got an immediate response.

<me, too>
me, too!
</me, too>

and got (almost) immediately 2 PayPal scams!

seems that those ?$^)* are very active...

-- 
Revolutionario



From david at openpartnership.net  Tue Oct 25 13:44:12 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:44:12 +0200
Subject: Multilingual dialogues
In-Reply-To: <20051025170004.D6AF382518D@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051025170004.D6AF382518D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <933DD6BA-F329-4647-9024-42F1E0D13CCA@openpartnership.net>

OK - not clear how it works - as the important handler is missing?

On 25 Oct 2005, at 19:33, MisterX wrote:

> Here's my link to TAOO's language GUI manager article I just put up!
>
> http://www.monsieurx.com/tiki/tiki-view_articles.php
>
> It's 4 scripts long, but there's far more in a new stack im building
> for the purpose of GUI language translations.
>
> While the real "dialog" version is not there yet, there is already
> a few 1000 expressions in more than 20 languages ready to be used.

Quick copyright question (maybe you should clarify on your web site)  
- all rights reserved means we need to clear copyright with you to  
use the handlers.

NB - TikiWiki has a basic lisence feature - but for Wiki pages only -  
where you can specify a default license - with links to the actual  
license.


From jeff at siphonophore.com  Tue Oct 25 13:58:17 2005
From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeffrey Reynolds)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:58:17 -0400
Subject: 2.6.1 QT audio bug
In-Reply-To: <20051025170003.A51968251BA@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051025170003.A51968251BA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <c5ec0aceb32dbd89af2a3f61987c2e63@siphonophore.com>

I had this problem in mc 251 with wav flies also. i have just kept them 
offscreen but visible since so I never noticed that they might have 
worked hidden there for a while in later versions of rev.

with quicktime players its probably safer to keep them visible since 
playing them when not visible might be freaking out quicktime somehow 
and may be why this changes as rev and or qt versions change.

cheers,

jeff


On Oct 25, 2005, at 1:00 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

> That does fix the problem.
>
> It did work in 2.5 and 2.6.  I guess something did get broken between 
> 2.6
> and 2.6.1 :(
>
> This is why I hated upgrading Metrowerks!  It always broke something.
>
> Now I have to go find all my invisible players and make them visible 
> and
> move them off screen.



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Oct 25 14:44:10 2005
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:44:10 -0700
Subject: 2.6.1 QT audio bug
In-Reply-To: <20051025170003.937A48251B9@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051025170003.937A48251B9@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <9ce89d4d4dfe89895461435a6d2c2058@interisland.net>

Hi Peter,

> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:54:01 -0500
> From: "Peter T. Evensen" <pevensen at siboneylg.com>
> Subject: 2.6.1 QT audio bug
>

> I am playing MP3 files
> (actually .swa file that have been renamed .mp3)

Just a side note: It may have nothing to do with why the file doesn't 
play, OTOH, it might, if 2.6.1 tries to fix a filetype/name extension 
matching problem.

AFAIK, changing a file's extension name does _not_ change the filetype. 
All you've done is cause a mismatch between filetype and file extension 
name. The system does not automatically convert filetypes because you 
rename them. The system and player should be looking at the file's 
header data and other metadata to see what type it actually is. Maybe 
2.6.1 is causing the player to conk out because of a mismatch. Just a 
thought.

If you want the files to actually become MP3 files, then I think you 
should do a _conversion_ to the filetype.

All the best,
Ken N.



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Oct 25 14:56:26 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:56:26 -0700
Subject: Variable Watcher
In-Reply-To: <9E325FF5-F07F-41F6-B02F-AE070E0EA5F6@conncoll.edu>
References: <09C090CC-EFA1-4988-9FF6-90F36FCA05DC@conncoll.edu>
	<f99b52860510241951q441793d3x83e606618a974efa@mail.gmail.com>
	<5257C9D3-C505-4464-B2BE-A59ADF3D720B@conncoll.edu>
	<f99b52860510250535k1ec64ea3l7d50d3bb35d8f1f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<9E325FF5-F07F-41F6-B02F-AE070E0EA5F6@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <3613194512.20051025115626@ahsoftware.net>

Charles-

Tuesday, October 25, 2005, 9:14:53 AM, you wrote:

> I don't have time to check at this minute -- but I'll take Mark W's
> message (a little farther down the list) to mean that this has  
> already been BZ'd . . . right?

This particular issue (click on an array to display the elements,
continue processing, the elements don't change and don't disappear the
way other variables do) hasn't been logged, and probably deserves its
own entry.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Tue Oct 25 14:59:23 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:59:23 -0700
Subject: Phishy Paypal -- "those guys pushing the envelope"
In-Reply-To: <1h505ym.1mji7ra14wfilmM%mcdomi@free.fr>
References: <1h505ym.1mji7ra14wfilmM%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <p06200700bf843052d6d2@[10.0.1.2]>

>Erik Hansen <erikhans08 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>  i did forward a phishy message to PayPal
>>  and got an immediate response.
>
><me, too>
>me, too!
></me, too>
>
>and got (almost) immediately 2 PayPal scams!
>
>seems that those ?$^)* are very active...
>
>--
>Revolutionario
>
>_______________________________________________


Is it possible a trojan on your computer is 
covertly sending copies of your email to a bad 
guy? As I understand it, the average Windows 
machine connected to the internet is infected 
with a couple of dozen malware items.

Otherwise, it's likely a coincidence. I get two or three phishing spams a day.


Tim


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Oct 25 15:19:33 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:19:33 -0700
Subject: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine + docWiki
In-Reply-To: <BF83D574.2E890%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF83D574.2E890%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <15114580906.20051025121933@ahsoftware.net>

Ken-

Tuesday, October 25, 2005, 10:28:36 AM, you wrote:

> Actually, it *should* support the full form of PCRE, since that is the
> library that was used when the put it into the engine. The bugs you identify
> above are all enhancement requests, so they are not representative of actual
> bugs with the engine - in fact the only other two bugs I could find were
> related to docs and not PCRE support at all.

> So AFAICT we have a full and complete PCRE implementation here, with no
> 'real' bugs associated with it.

Well, my BZ #2805 was filed as an enhancement because I realize that
runrev implements *some* of the regular expression characters in the
filter command, but not all. I realize the matchText function handles
more of them, but whether this inconsistency is a bug or an
enhancement request is a matter of semantics. If the engine implements
the full PCRE set but I can't get to it using the syntax that the
builtin commands will accept, it doesn't do much good from a scripting
perspective.


-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Tue Oct 25 15:44:34 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:44:34 -0500
Subject: 2.6.1 QT audio bug
In-Reply-To: <9ce89d4d4dfe89895461435a6d2c2058@interisland.net>
References: <20051025170003.937A48251B9@mail.runrev.com>
	<9ce89d4d4dfe89895461435a6d2c2058@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051025144410.169ac5e8@exchange.slg.com>

.swa files are .mp3 files, minus some tags, so the file formats are the same.

At 01:44 PM 10/25/2005, you wrote:
>Hi Peter,
>
>>Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:54:01 -0500
>>From: "Peter T. Evensen" <pevensen at siboneylg.com>
>>Subject: 2.6.1 QT audio bug
>
>>I am playing MP3 files
>>(actually .swa file that have been renamed .mp3)
>
>Just a side note: It may have nothing to do with why the file doesn't 
>play, OTOH, it might, if 2.6.1 tries to fix a filetype/name extension 
>matching problem.
>
>AFAIK, changing a file's extension name does _not_ change the filetype. 
>All you've done is cause a mismatch between filetype and file extension 
>name. The system does not automatically convert filetypes because you 
>rename them. The system and player should be looking at the file's header 
>data and other metadata to see what type it actually is. Maybe 2.6.1 is 
>causing the player to conk out because of a mismatch. Just a thought.
>
>If you want the files to actually become MP3 files, then I think you 
>should do a _conversion_ to the filetype.
>
>All the best,
>Ken N.
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Tue Oct 25 15:52:09 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:52:09 +0100
Subject: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine + docWiki
In-Reply-To: <15114580906.20051025121933@ahsoftware.net>
References: <BF83D574.2E890%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<15114580906.20051025121933@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <EA32965D-3621-469E-A941-4F4CBCE4D5A1@lacscentre.co.uk>

On 25 Oct 2005, at 20:19, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Ken-
>
> Tuesday, October 25, 2005, 10:28:36 AM, you wrote:
>
>
>> Actually, it *should* support the full form of PCRE, since that is  
>> the
>> library that was used when the put it into the engine. The bugs  
>> you identify
>> above are all enhancement requests, so they are not representative  
>> of actual
>> bugs with the engine - in fact the only other two bugs I could  
>> find were
>> related to docs and not PCRE support at all.
>>
>
>
>> So AFAICT we have a full and complete PCRE implementation here,  
>> with no
>> 'real' bugs associated with it.
>>
>
> Well, my BZ #2805 was filed as an enhancement because I realize that
> runrev implements *some* of the regular expression characters in the
> filter command, but not all. I realize the matchText function handles
> more of them, but whether this inconsistency is a bug or an
> enhancement request is a matter of semantics. If the engine implements
> the full PCRE set but I can't get to it using the syntax that the
> builtin commands will accept, it doesn't do much good from a scripting
> perspective.

I don't think it's just a matter of sematics.

  matchText doesn't just handle "more of them"; it effectively  
handles "all of them".

The "filter" command doesn't claim to use regualr expressions. (only  
matchText, matchChunk, and replaceText do) The docs for "filter" use  
the term "wilcard expression", and in fact, a much richer set of  
wildcards are allowed in filter now than used to be the case.

To me, there's a big difference between "Wouldn't it be nice if the  
filter command used the full RegEx syntax in the same way as  
matchText?" and "Rev's regEx  implementation is a sparsely-documented  
subset of PCRE compatible
syntax and that subset can change at any time."

Cheers
Dave


From mcdomi at free.fr  Tue Oct 25 16:17:22 2005
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:17:22 +0200
Subject: Textshift (Was: Re: vAlign Images in lines of text)
In-Reply-To: <BF797C59.2E1E5%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <1h50dpt.l2clm0afzwkaM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

> The answer is "yes", you can use the little-known "textShift" property of
> text to shift the image (or the text, your choice) above/below the baseline.

Note that this also useful for larger text sizes, as "superscript" is a
bit too "low" (it seems to be be middle aligned at sizes such a 36, 48
and more)

I found that by digging in the help and searching for properties
containing "text", in response to a question in the french speaking list
(revolutionfr at yahoo)

-- 
Revolutionario



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Tue Oct 25 16:23:16 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:23:16 -0400
Subject: Variable Watcher
In-Reply-To: <3613194512.20051025115626@ahsoftware.net>
References: <09C090CC-EFA1-4988-9FF6-90F36FCA05DC@conncoll.edu>
	<f99b52860510241951q441793d3x83e606618a974efa@mail.gmail.com>
	<5257C9D3-C505-4464-B2BE-A59ADF3D720B@conncoll.edu>
	<f99b52860510250535k1ec64ea3l7d50d3bb35d8f1f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<9E325FF5-F07F-41F6-B02F-AE070E0EA5F6@conncoll.edu>
	<3613194512.20051025115626@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <728787C6-5037-4CA2-8BD7-41248F4F4461@conncoll.edu>

OK, I've posted it: #3204.

Charles

On Oct 25, 2005, at 2:56 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Charles-
>
> Tuesday, October 25, 2005, 9:14:53 AM, you wrote:
>
>
>> I don't have time to check at this minute -- but I'll take Mark W's
>> message (a little farther down the list) to mean that this has
>> already been BZ'd . . . right?
>>
>
> This particular issue (click on an array to display the elements,
> continue processing, the elements don't change and don't disappear the
> way other variables do) hasn't been logged, and probably deserves its
> own entry.
>
> --  
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From troy at rpsystems.net  Tue Oct 25 16:48:12 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:48:12 -0400
Subject: 2.6.1 QT audio bug
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051025144410.169ac5e8@exchange.slg.com>
References: <20051025170003.937A48251B9@mail.runrev.com>
	<9ce89d4d4dfe89895461435a6d2c2058@interisland.net>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20051025144410.169ac5e8@exchange.slg.com>
Message-ID: <82a7c6b3672e0e9b9b54993bdcddeb3a@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 25, 2005, at 3:44 PM, Peter T. Evensen wrote:

> .swa files are .mp3 files, minus some tags, so the file formats are 
> the same.

To be more accurate, the audio compression used in swa is mp3. However, 
the file formats themselves are not identical, since, as you say, swa 
carries additional information. "Tags" would imply that these are using 
an XML-like format, but they aren't.

All that said, *generally*, you can rename an swa to an mp3, and the 
player will disregard the extra header and file meta-data, as you are 
trying to do, though there is nothing to say that some types of players 
will not be more sensitive to it.

Does make you wonder what changed between Rev versions which would 
cause the issue though.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Oct 25 16:51:45 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:51:45 -0700
Subject: 2.6.1 QT audio bug
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051025113507.28ca1f90@exchange.slg.com>
Message-ID: <BF83E8F1.238A4%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Peter T. Evensen  wrote:

>>I have an invisible player that I am using to play audio.  It
>>worked fine in 2.6.

> It did work in 2.5 and 2.6.  I guess something did get broken between 2.6
> and 2.6.1

In my experience, invisible player objects have long been a problem, not
just recently.  If you're just noticing the problem now, I'd say you've been
lucky until now, but in reality nothing (apparently) has changed since
previous releases.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Oct 25 16:57:15 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:57:15 -0500
Subject: Targeting Paint tools at a specific grouped image
In-Reply-To: <000601c5d826$43515e10$6400a8c0@fusion>
References: <000601c5d826$43515e10$6400a8c0@fusion>
Message-ID: <435E9C2B.10604@hyperactivesw.com>

Mike Doub wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I am trying to create a set of controls that is made up of a few fields and
> an image.  I am doing this inside of another group that is set up to manage
> the scrolling.  I must be doing something wrong as any time I go to edit the
> image a new image is created the same size as the card. 
  <snip script>

I didn't try it, but try removing the line that selects the existing 
image. In theory, clicking inside an existing image with any paint tool 
should draw directly into that image. It may be that artifically 
selecting the image first is throwing off the auto-select. Just a guess.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Oct 25 17:09:45 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:09:45 +0100
Subject: Jigsaw
In-Reply-To: <p0623091abf840290d320@[69.85.136.180]>
References: <p0623091abf840290d320@[69.85.136.180]>
Message-ID: <435E9F19.4090100@tweedly.net>


Two people have separately asked (more or less) the same question - so 
I'll answer on-list in case there are others also wondering.

"I tried to download your "Image jigsaw.rev" and it was wrong file type, 
or showed up as text , or ..."


It's a browser problem, or a browser misconfig, or a mismatch between 
the web site and the browser, or something like that. I don't think 
there's anything I can do to make it easier or better or more likely to 
work right. (I know there was a discussion on here a while ago about 
.rev files downloading wrongly, especially for MacOSX users, but I 
remember being confused by it, so didn't finish up with any clear memory 
of where the problem lay.)

I've replaced the "Image jigsaw.rev" by a zip file "Image jigsaw.zip" - 
as far as I know, zip files will be properly interpreted by just about 
everyone's browser and/or system

http://www.tweedly.net/RunRev/Image jigsaw.zip

Of course, if all else fails, get the copy from RevOnline :-)

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/148 - Release Date: 25/10/2005



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 25 17:13:28 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:13:28 -0500
Subject: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine + docWiki
In-Reply-To: <EA32965D-3621-469E-A941-4F4CBCE4D5A1@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BF840A28.2E8DB%kray@sonsothunder.com>

>> Well, my BZ #2805 was filed as an enhancement because I realize that
>> runrev implements *some* of the regular expression characters in the
>> filter command, but not all. I realize the matchText function handles
>> more of them, but whether this inconsistency is a bug or an
>> enhancement request is a matter of semantics. If the engine implements
>> the full PCRE set but I can't get to it using the syntax that the
>> builtin commands will accept, it doesn't do much good from a scripting
>> perspective.
> 
> I don't think it's just a matter of sematics.
> 
>   matchText doesn't just handle "more of them"; it effectively
> handles "all of them".
> 
> The "filter" command doesn't claim to use regualr expressions. (only
> matchText, matchChunk, and replaceText do) The docs for "filter" use
> the term "wilcard expression", and in fact, a much richer set of
> wildcards are allowed in filter now than used to be the case.
> 
> To me, there's a big difference between "Wouldn't it be nice if the
> filter command used the full RegEx syntax in the same way as
> matchText?" and "Rev's regEx  implementation is a sparsely-documented
> subset of PCRE compatible
> syntax and that subset can change at any time."

Agreed. Which is why it is an enhancement suggestion to the filter command.
My guess is that the filter command preceded the
matchText/matchChunk/replaceText tokens and so used a limited form of
wilcard expressions. Personally, I'd *love* for everything that used
"wildcards" or "regular expressions" all used the same full-bodied PCRE
engine... 

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From revdan at danshafer.com  Tue Oct 25 17:27:52 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:27:52 -0700
Subject: Pre-Fab Profile Set? 
In-Reply-To: <3C31E4DF-B122-4E81-A372-351841233A7F@lexicall.org>
References: <3C31E4DF-B122-4E81-A372-351841233A7F@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <3721241C-B700-457F-A9DA-4225729AF122@danshafer.com>

Did you get a response from anyone else or is it just the two of us?

Dan

On Oct 24, 2005, at 4:14 PM, Marielle Lange wrote:

> Hi Dan,
>
> This is excellent news. Your server, my server, doesn't matter. If  
> on mine, I can easily set up a password protected forum. Yahoo  
> groups don't have my favor either. We can discuss of the  
> particulars in private.
>
> But I should clarify this. Why password protected? My situation has  
> changed. I have decided to take 6 months off my normal employment  
> (academic) to develop a few projects that I don't have time to  
> develop properly when on a full time job. Open Source development  
> is cool. But quality applications can only be developed when  
> working full time on the projects, at least for the design/pilot/ 
> putting everything together stage. Some applications that meet the  
> specific needs of the academic community never get developed  
> because academic don't have the time and focus to develop fully  
> fledge applications. I had these ideas about 5 years ago, wrote a  
> few utilities for my own use, but never had the opportunity to  
> transform them into tools useful to my community. I am doing it now.
>
> I don't intend to make money from selling these libraries but from  
> selling small but very useful tools to a rather large market  
> (educators, academics, in a $5-$10 the unit model). Until I am  
> ready to distribute these, I prefer to keep my competitive  
> advantage (I start to use buzz word as I am following an  
> entrepreneurship course :) ). All libraries will probably be made  
> available open source once I start getting money to pay back the  
> development costs (no guaranteed salary for 6 months). I am very  
> receptive to the idea of ransomware too (keep it close till you get  
> the development costs back).
>
> Marielle
>
>
>> I'd be up for that, Marielle. I can set up and host a group on one  
>> of my servers if you like or we can go the Yahoo groups route  
>> which several other Rev-related groups have done but which I find  
>> sort of moderately distasteful.
>>
>>
>>> Can we create a working group? I am interested in collaboration  
>>> but not in making everything widely available right now.
>>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ----------
> Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist
>
> Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
> Homepage                                                            
> http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
> Easy access to lexical databases                    http:// 
> lexicall.org
> Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
> revolution.lexicall.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From mlange at lexicall.org  Tue Oct 25 17:39:14 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:39:14 +0100
Subject: docWikis
Message-ID: <1E12D7FC-FBCA-4490-8CC2-D89701E6D1D3@lexicall.org>

Hi Jonathan

> What is your site for the revdoc wiki again?

My site is not for revdoc... it contains snippets and code examples.
http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=StandardsSMIL
(for the page on SMIL standards, to be in context... though this page  
is quite empty for now)

> Does it have the whole revDocs on it?

Nope, you will find it elsewhere.
They have been there : http://mathfieldday.com:8080/revdocs/2291   
(not serving anymore)

You will also find them in this excellent course:
http://revolution.byu.edu/cgi-bin/revsite/indexcounter.cgi
http://revolution.byu.edu/revdocs212.html

Cheers,
Marielle
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Tue Oct 25 17:39:22 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:39:22 +0200
Subject: AW: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine
In-Reply-To: <605EFDF0-887B-4605-8F56-FC38F0EBFEAC@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCOEIKDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hi Dave and all the others in this thread,

> ... I guess the engine is confused about where the replacement  
> should be made. As far as I know, replaceText always works when the  
> above construction is used in combination with another expression  
> (e.g yx*, x*y, yx*z), so if it is a bug, I don't think it can be  
> considered a serious  one.
> 
> >> answer replaceText("A C","^ +","")
> 
> The above works because the match can fail, in which case no  
> replacement is made.

1. You're absolutely right, I should have used "^ +" in the first place.

2. I didn't want to sound too harsh, sorry. I called this a serious bug, because for somebody who has some Perl programming experience, regular expression lie at the very basis of the script, so I was somewhat shocked. And in spite of what Ken Ray says, I still think this is a bug.

3. It seems that regular expressions are to be avoided in time sensitive parts of the script anyway. Playing around a little bit I found that the RegExp solution I suggested took far more time than any other solution (by about a factor of 10 compared with the fastest solution). Probably this should be optimized in an updated version. It seems that regular expressions in Perl are by a factor 6 faster (and again 8 times faster on my PC laptop).
On the other hand, this shows that those cumbersome repeat loops are surprisingly fast.
The fastest is:

  while char 1 of testString is space
    delete char 1 of testString 
  end repeat

taking about 1.8 microseconds per round (11 ticks for 100000 repeats), and with a string whiteSpace = tab && return a loop with
  while char 1 of testString is in whiteSpace 
takes about twice as long.

  word 1 to -1 of testString
removing whitespace at the front and the end simultaneously is only a little slower, while using token
  token 1 to -1 of testString
takes surprisingly three times as long as using "word".

All in all, Bob's idea "to ask questions that make them want to crawl under the table in shame because probably the answer is idiotically simple." turned out to keep people busy and excited for quite a while. Proves again that there are no simple questions...

All the best
Thomas


--
Thomas Fischer
Salzburg (actually Gottingen right now)



From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Tue Oct 25 17:45:27 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:45:27 -0500
Subject: 2.6.1 QT audio bug
In-Reply-To: <82a7c6b3672e0e9b9b54993bdcddeb3a@rpsystems.net>
References: <20051025170003.937A48251B9@mail.runrev.com>
	<9ce89d4d4dfe89895461435a6d2c2058@interisland.net>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20051025144410.169ac5e8@exchange.slg.com>
	<82a7c6b3672e0e9b9b54993bdcddeb3a@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051025164402.28f9a808@exchange.slg.com>

Thanks for the clarification.  BTW, "Tags" does not imply XML.  The 
non-audio info in MP3s are called tags: http://www.id3.org/

At 03:48 PM 10/25/2005, you wrote:

>On Oct 25, 2005, at 3:44 PM, Peter T. Evensen wrote:
>
>>.swa files are .mp3 files, minus some tags, so the file formats are the same.
>
>To be more accurate, the audio compression used in swa is mp3. However, 
>the file formats themselves are not identical, since, as you say, swa 
>carries additional information. "Tags" would imply that these are using an 
>XML-like format, but they aren't.
>
>All that said, *generally*, you can rename an swa to an mp3, and the 
>player will disregard the extra header and file meta-data, as you are 
>trying to do, though there is nothing to say that some types of players 
>will not be more sensitive to it.
>
>Does make you wonder what changed between Rev versions which would cause 
>the issue though.
>--
>Troy
>RPSystems, Ltd.
>http://www.rpsystems.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From johnpatten at mac.com  Tue Oct 25 17:55:57 2005
From: johnpatten at mac.com (John Patten)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:55:57 -0700
Subject: OpenSockets and multiple stacks...?
Message-ID: <1127343.1130277357481.JavaMail.johnpatten@mac.com>

Hello All...

Not sure if this is possible, but I'd like to be able to have a single stack, let's call it the instructors stack, send out a text message to multiple stacks all within a single classroom network all at one time. The "multiple stacks" would be student stacks.


I have had a look at some of the sample stacks in the "User Spaces" specifically the work that AlexTweedly has done with his "TCP and UDP" stacks, but have yet to determine if sockets would work in a implementation as i have described. I get the impression that sockets is something that can only occur between two stacks, not between one and many, or many to many.

Or, do sockets allow you to open multiple sockets in order to facilitate mutliple connections to a single server stack?

What I would like to get to is a Revolution based system similar to a classroom performance system (http://www.pearsonncs.com/cps/) but utilizing laptops and the improved capabilities of Revolution.

Anyone have some suggestions?

Thanks in Advance!

John Patten


From mswindel at santacruz.k12.ca.us  Tue Oct 25 17:58:34 2005
From: mswindel at santacruz.k12.ca.us (Mark Swindell)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:58:34 -0700
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <1E12D7FC-FBCA-4490-8CC2-D89701E6D1D3@lexicall.org>
References: <1E12D7FC-FBCA-4490-8CC2-D89701E6D1D3@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <d149c223fe79018e7bc4e1b031953456@santacruz.k12.ca.us>

Could an expert scripter create a template rev stack  that would wikify 
all the existing revdocs in one fell swoop and send them to  their 
appropriate places in the wiki/web structure (however that works for 
wikis, no idea here).   Just a question.  I'm sure it's not easy or 
someone would have done it.

Mark



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Tue Oct 25 17:58:31 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:58:31 -0400
Subject: docWikis
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968320@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

So then, there is no actual online wiki containing the full revdocs...

I happen to agree with you (Marielle) that it would be an excellent
thing. I am willing to set it up if no one else wishes to do it.

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Marielle
Lange
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:39 PM
To: use Revolution How to
Subject: Re: docWikis

Hi Jonathan

> What is your site for the revdoc wiki again?

My site is not for revdoc... it contains snippets and code examples.
http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=StandardsSMIL
(for the page on SMIL standards, to be in context... though this page  
is quite empty for now)

> Does it have the whole revDocs on it?

Nope, you will find it elsewhere.
They have been there : http://mathfieldday.com:8080/revdocs/2291   
(not serving anymore)

You will also find them in this excellent course:
http://revolution.byu.edu/cgi-bin/revsite/indexcounter.cgi
http://revolution.byu.edu/revdocs212.html

Cheers,
Marielle
------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mlange at lexicall.org  Tue Oct 25 18:15:46 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:15:46 +0100
Subject: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine
Message-ID: <5BE35B28-143A-42A3-BAA8-5C118574C4A7@lexicall.org>

> So AFAICT we have a full and complete PCRE implementation here,  
> with no
> 'real' bugs associated with it.

I fully agree on the full and complete PCRE. Now I know it is there,  
I tested it and all the syntactic variations I know about are there.

But how do I need to call this if not a bug?

put "_" & replacetext("A C", "^ *", "")    -> _C
put "_" & replacetext("A C", "^", "")      -> _

I tested it in BBEdit and PHP, I don't get these very strange  
results. At the page: http://revolution.lexicall.org/regexp_test.php,  
you see the result of the following php instructions:

     $ttext = "A C" ;
     $ttext = preg_replace('/^ */', '', $ttext);
     echo "_" . $ttext . "<br />";          --> _A C

     $ttext = " A C";
     $ttext = preg_replace('/^ */', '', $ttext);
     echo "_" . $ttext . "<br />";           --> _A C

     $ttext = " A C";
     $ttext = preg_replace('/^/', '', $ttext);
     echo "_" . $ttext . "<br />";           --> _ A C

     $ttext = "A C";
     $ttext = preg_replace('/^/', '', $ttext);
     echo "_" . $ttext . "<br />";          -->    _A C

Cheers,
Marielle


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Tue Oct 25 18:18:42 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:18:42 +0100
Subject: AW: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCOEIKDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
References: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCOEIKDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <44C47CA0-7374-4EFD-A1B5-BF9B872714DC@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 25 Oct 2005, at 22:39, Thomas Fischer wrote:
>
> 2. I didn't want to sound too harsh, sorry.

And if my reply sounded harsh, sorry too.

>
> 3. It seems that regular expressions are to be avoided in time  
> sensitive parts of the script anyway. Playing around a little bit I  
> found that the RegExp solution I suggested took far more time than  
> any other solution (by about a factor of 10 compared with the  
> fastest solution). Probably this should be optimized in an updated  
> version. It seems that regular expressions in Perl are by a factor  
> 6 faster (and again 8 times faster on my PC laptop).

I believe that replaceText received a performance boost in the 2.6.1  
version. I don't how much of a difference it makes. But I'm not  
surprised that Perl handles regular expressions faster. That's what  
it was built for. (On the other hand, it's not too good at drag and  
drop. :-) )

> On the other hand, this shows that those cumbersome repeat loops  
> are surprisingly fast.

And usually easier to read than regular expressions.


> All in all, Bob's idea "to ask questions that make them want to  
> crawl under the table in shame because probably the answer is  
> idiotically simple." turned out to keep people busy and excited for  
> quite a while. Proves again that there are no simple questions...

Absolutely.

Regards
Dave



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Tue Oct 25 18:19:07 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:19:07 -0400
Subject: OpenSockets and multiple stacks...?
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968321@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

There should be no such restrictions...

Presumably each computer in your network will have an IP address... So
you just have a list of IP addresses and a repeat loop that sends the
message out to the same port on each IP address in the list.

It'll take a bit of tweaking to get it all worked out, but there should
not be a reason why you can't do it.

Good luck.

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of John
Patten
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:56 PM
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: OpenSockets and multiple stacks...?

Hello All...

Not sure if this is possible, but I'd like to be able to have a single
stack, let's call it the instructors stack, send out a text message to
multiple stacks all within a single classroom network all at one time.
The "multiple stacks" would be student stacks.


I have had a look at some of the sample stacks in the "User Spaces"
specifically the work that AlexTweedly has done with his "TCP and UDP"
stacks, but have yet to determine if sockets would work in a
implementation as i have described. I get the impression that sockets is
something that can only occur between two stacks, not between one and
many, or many to many.

Or, do sockets allow you to open multiple sockets in order to facilitate
mutliple connections to a single server stack?

What I would like to get to is a Revolution based system similar to a
classroom performance system (http://www.pearsonncs.com/cps/) but
utilizing laptops and the improved capabilities of Revolution.

Anyone have some suggestions?

Thanks in Advance!

John Patten
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From see3d at writeme.com  Tue Oct 25 18:27:40 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:27:40 -0400
Subject: docWikis
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968320@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968320@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <66006247-B028-4E06-87C5-27E1F996341B@writeme.com>

I would be most interested in seeing all the docs AND the tips and  
examples in one place.  However, it would not be that bad to have two  
sites if they have pointers to entries in each other.  However, it  
seems like keeping the pointers from breaking might be a concern.

The best solution as everyone knows would be for RunRev to sponsor a  
full Wiki site for all of this.  I am frankly at a loss as to why  
they have not jumped on this long ago --just silence.  In the absence  
of their leadership, I will give my support to whichever site is  
mutually agreed upon.

Dennis

On Oct 25, 2005, at 5:58 PM, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

> So then, there is no actual online wiki containing the full revdocs...
>
> I happen to agree with you (Marielle) that it would be an excellent
> thing. I am willing to set it up if no one else wishes to do it.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Marielle
> Lange
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:39 PM
> To: use Revolution How to
> Subject: Re: docWikis
>
> Hi Jonathan
>
>
>> What is your site for the revdoc wiki again?
>>
>
> My site is not for revdoc... it contains snippets and code examples.
> http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=StandardsSMIL
> (for the page on SMIL standards, to be in context... though this page
> is quite empty for now)
>
>


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 18:30:47 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:30:47 +1000
Subject: OpenSockets and multiple stacks...?
In-Reply-To: <1127343.1130277357481.JavaMail.johnpatten@mac.com>
References: <1127343.1130277357481.JavaMail.johnpatten@mac.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510251530t7068aaedma929e91968660f7@mail.gmail.com>

> Not sure if this is possible, but I'd like to be able to have a single stack, let's call it the instructors stack, send out a text message to multiple stacks all within a single classroom network all at one time. The "multiple stacks" would be student stacks.
>
>
> I have had a look at some of the sample stacks in the "User Spaces" specifically the work that AlexTweedly has done with his "TCP and UDP" stacks, but have yet to determine if sockets would work in a implementation as i have described. I get the impression that sockets is something that can only occur between two stacks, not between one and many, or many to many.
>
> Or, do sockets allow you to open multiple sockets in order to facilitate mutliple connections to a single server stack?
>
> What I would like to get to is a Revolution based system similar to a classroom performance system (http://www.pearsonncs.com/cps/) but utilizing laptops and the improved capabilities of Revolution.
>

I can't remember the exact details, but I seem to recall that you can
broadcast a message over a UDP port by using IP address
255.255.255.255

Choose a certain port number (50000 in my examples) and on the
instructor's computer open a socket to that port:
  open socket to "255.255.255.255:50000"
Send data out that port:
  write "Hello there" to socket "255.255.255.255:50000"

Have the student computers listen on that port number:
  accept datagram connections on port 50000 with message doMessage

The doMessage handler can get the received data and process it.

Dar Scott had a UDP stack that demonstrated this better than I can explain it.

Cheers,
Sarah


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Oct 25 18:39:08 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:39:08 -0500
Subject: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine
In-Reply-To: <5BE35B28-143A-42A3-BAA8-5C118574C4A7@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <BF841E3C.2E8F2%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/25/05 5:15 PM, "Marielle Lange" <mlange at lexicall.org> wrote:

>> So AFAICT we have a full and complete PCRE implementation here,
>> with no
>> 'real' bugs associated with it.

What I meant was that no bugs were associated with it in Bugzilla.
 
> I fully agree on the full and complete PCRE. Now I know it is there,
> I tested it and all the syntactic variations I know about are there.
> 
> But how do I need to call this if not a bug?
> 
> put "_" & replacetext("A C", "^ *", "")    -> _C
> put "_" & replacetext("A C", "^", "")      -> _

This sounds like a bug that should be put into Bugzilla so that Mark can
work to fix it (or explain it if there's a reasonable explanation).


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com




From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Tue Oct 25 18:41:35 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:41:35 +0200
Subject: AW: long (?) filenames in players
In-Reply-To: <E0FBEEBB-7B39-4203-BC19-14F6FD1F42D5@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCGEILDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hi Klaus,

is it really "Schlockche"? That sounds weird.

But apart from this, if the system (whoever is doing the interpretation of the file path) understands the %20 encoding for space, you could try the same encoding for the extended charset:

  put empty into newString
  repeat for each character i in orgTextString
    if charToNum(i) > 127 then
      put "%"& baseConvert(charToNum(i),10,16) after newString
    else put i after newString
  end repeat
  answer newString

All the best
Thomas


--
Thomas Fischer
Salzburg/Gottingen

> -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]Im Auftrag von Klaus
> Major
> Gesendet: Montag, 24. Oktober 2005 22:53
> An: How to use Revolution
> Betreff: Re: long (?) filenames in players
> 
> 
> Hi Trevor,
> 
> > On Oct 24, 2005, at 1:24 PM, Klaus Major wrote:
> >> thanks, will try that, although this will be definitively  
> >> "overkill"...
> > Yep.
> 
> But it works!
> Geez, a 1,000,000 $ mousetrap :-D
> 
> >> But i will have to take card to NOT save the SMIL file in a path  
> >> with umlauts,
> >> sounds like a vicious circle :-)
> > True, but that is easy - temp file that you control the path of.
> 
> sure, that was a little joke ;-)
> 
> > -- 
> > Trevor DeVore
> > Blue Mango Multimedia
> > trevor at mangomultimedia.com
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> http://www.major-k.de
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jhurley at infostations.com  Tue Oct 25 18:57:47 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:57:47 -0700
Subject: Setting custom properties
In-Reply-To: <20051025145508.C70608250A9@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051025145508.C70608250A9@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p0623091bbf841fbea9da@[69.85.136.180]>

>
>Message: 12
>Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:26:47 -0700
>From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
>Subject: Re: Setting custom properties
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Message-ID: <435E3297.9050802 at fourthworld.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>Jim Hurley wrote:
>>  I would like to be able to set a custom property to an evaluated string.
>  > In the following lines of script:
>>
>>  put "apples" & cr & "oranges" into tList
>>  put "myGroceryList" & 3 into tName
>>  set the tName of this card to tList
>>
>>  It appears that Run Rev will assign tList to the custom property
>>  myGroceryList3. But how does it know that the name of the custom
>>  property is myGroceryList3 and not tName? Does it check to see whether
>>  tName has a value in the script?
>
>You've implicitely declared it by using it as a variable in the line
>before.  If a token is in the local variable table it'll be used as such.
>
>--
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Managing Editor, revJournal
>   __


Richard,

Thanks. It is hard to image a more fundamental principle.

I see now that I have been using this fact all along without 
realizing it. For example in such cases as:

put "myFIeld" & i into tFieldName
put field tFieldName into myVariable

Ah, the dangers of learning only as much about a language as 
necessary to complete the task at hand.

Jim


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Oct 25 19:07:03 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:07:03 -0700
Subject: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine + docWiki
In-Reply-To: <EA32965D-3621-469E-A941-4F4CBCE4D5A1@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <BF83D574.2E890%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<15114580906.20051025121933@ahsoftware.net>
	<EA32965D-3621-469E-A941-4F4CBCE4D5A1@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2428231234.20051025160703@ahsoftware.net>

Dave-

Tuesday, October 25, 2005, 12:52:09 PM, you wrote:

> The "filter" command doesn't claim to use regualr expressions. (only
> matchText, matchChunk, and replaceText do) The docs for "filter" use
> the term "wilcard expression", and in fact, a much richer set of  
> wildcards are allowed in filter now than used to be the case.

Ah. My bad in that case. I read "wildcard expression" to mean "regular
expression" since that's what's used elsewhere.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From briany at qldlearning.com  Tue Oct 25 19:40:55 2005
From: briany at qldlearning.com (briany at qldlearning.com)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:40:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine + docWiki
In-Reply-To: <2428231234.20051025160703@ahsoftware.net>
References: <BF83D574.2E890%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<15114580906.20051025121933@ahsoftware.net>
	<EA32965D-3621-469E-A941-4F4CBCE4D5A1@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<2428231234.20051025160703@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <3884.70.181.101.193.1130283655.squirrel@www.qldlearning.com>

All,

What about using something like this as an interim solution to filter +
regex?

I'm sure this could be improved, but basically it just runs through the
text one line at a time and uses matchText to filter in/out the matching
lines.

on regexFilter @t,expr
  local tmp,l,outLine
  repeat for each line l in t
    if (matchText(l, "("&expr&")", outLine) AND (l = outLine)) then
      put l&cr after tmp
    end if
  end repeat
  delete last char of tmp
  put tmp into t
end regexFilter

Example:

put "AC"&cr&"BD"&"CC" into tText
regexFilter tText,"[AB][BC]"
// tText => "AC"


From mlange at lexicall.org  Tue Oct 25 19:56:28 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:56:28 +0100
Subject: docWikis
Message-ID: <45A60C7A-D5DE-4502-985D-2DA45B35233B@lexicall.org>

Jonathan,

Congrats for your website. Nice addition to the family. Feel free to  
step on my toes... you are welcome to dance on them if you fancy :-).

You insisted that you did it to check out how difficult it would be.  
Point taken.

But the point made by Tim is an important one. You will have user  
contribution when you successfully persuade them that the work they  
put into this will not be wasted. In fact, I didn't make any attempt  
to upload the doc on my own wiki because I was aware that structure  
had to precede content. I didn't take too much time transferring the  
many notes and snippets I have on my computer onto the wiki for this  
very reason too.

Your document is completely unstructured (I understand this is the  
source of the doc itself):
<P>altID</B> property</FONT><FONT size=3> (any object)</FONT></ 
P><FONT color=#606060 size=2>
<P>Platform support: </P></FONT><FONT size=1>
<P>Introduced in version 1.0</P></FONT>
<P>Specifies an alternate ID for objects.</P><B><FONT face="Courier  
New" size=1>
<P>set the altID of <I>object</I> to <I>IDNumber</P></B></I></ 
FONT><FONT face="Courier New" size=1>
<P>put the altID of this card into myID</P>
<P>repeat while the altID of stack myStack &lt;&gt; 0</P></FONT><FONT  
color=#606060 size=2>
<P>See also: </FONT><FONT size=3>ID property </FONT></P><B><FONT  
color=#606060 size=2>

Can you control the css behind your wiki pages?

This suggests you do:
         <LINK REL="stylesheet" TYPE="text/css" HREF="/otherpages/ 
red_and_gray_full_screen/wiki.css">
         <LINK REL="stylesheet" TYPE="text/css" media="print"  
HREF="http://www.seedwiki.com/otherpages/seedwiki/wiki_print.css">

But can you add new tags within your wiki page that match css  
divisions? This is what I wanted to do in my wiki before trying to  
get more persons contribute. With divisions and conventions, the  
material can be very easily exchanged.


So what about the idea of standards... Only got two respondents so  
far and one is myself.
Would users of this list conform to standards if I have the  
initiative to design some?  If you want to get a poor soul (me) spend  
a few days on this, you should consider taking 1 minute to answer the  
very short survey at:
http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-take_survey.php?surveyId=1

By experience, I know that many persons like to answer... do the job,  
spend much much time on it... then when you have finished, if I am  
satisfied with the work you have done, I may end up using it....  
Comments, feedback? No, too early. I will wait for you to present me  
with a finished product and then I may give you some feedback if I  
find the time for it.

So many great things haven't been realized because of this  
attitude ;-). If you believe we should go for a reliable revdoc  
system... one that can easily be moved from one place to another  
without too much cost if we discover that the first environment we  
try has intrinsic limits or if we want to take advantage of  
unexpected changes in technology... help make it happen. At the very  
minimum, indicate whether you will be really to adopt the standards  
if they are put in place. I am ready to spend my energy designing  
good standards. I am not much ready to spend a lot of it harassing  
members of this list to start using them. The spider guy moto is that  
with great power comes great responsibilities.... I believe the  
opposite is also true: with responsibilities come power. We can wait  
for revolution to present us with a frequently updated documentation  
system (which honestly, will never happen), or we can have it done  
ourselves, thanks to the addition of small contributions from all  
members. But for this, we need a momemtum. One or two activists will  
not be enough to make it work.

Marielle
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From pixelbird at interisland.net  Tue Oct 25 19:57:31 2005
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:57:31 -0700
Subject: 2.6.1 QT audio bug 
In-Reply-To: <20051025211005.7A07182511F@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051025211005.7A07182511F@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <0209c1bb2aa160fdaf6513a478a937fc@interisland.net>


On Oct 25, 2005, at 2:10 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:44:34 -0500
> From: "Peter T. Evensen" <pevensen at siboneylg.com>
> Subject: Re: 2.6.1 QT audio bug
>
>
> .swa files are .mp3 files, minus some tags, so the file formats are 
> the same.

I know, but I've had personal experiences wherein the tags you speak of 
fouled things. Formats and types are different little animals.

All the best,
Ken N.



From nicolas_cueto at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 25 20:24:58 2005
From: nicolas_cueto at yahoo.com (N Cueto)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:24:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: answer file with defaultPath
In-Reply-To: <3884.70.181.101.193.1130283655.squirrel@www.qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <20051026002458.78412.qmail@web60616.mail.yahoo.com>

According to the documentation on the "answer file"
command, setting its "with defaultPath" parameter 
should cause the system's dialog box to list the
specified folder's contents. This is however not
working on my Win2K (Japanese) machine. Despite 
setting a default path -- which is stored in a 
global variable in the form, for example, of
"C:/niconiko/Halloween/images" -- the file dialog
box still opens up to the computer's root directory.

Perhaps I've missed something?

--
Nicolas Cueto
niconiko language school


From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Tue Oct 25 20:33:40 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Wouter)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 02:33:40 +0200
Subject: AW: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCOEIKDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
References: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCOEIKDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <6EA38C6C-6DFB-4562-B32F-31C45F49C9E4@scarlet.be>

On 25 Oct 2005, at 23:39, Thomas Fischer wrote:

-snip-

> 3. It seems that regular expressions are to be avoided in time  
> sensitive parts of the script anyway. Playing around a little bit I  
> found that the RegExp solution I suggested took far more time than  
> any other solution (by about a factor of 10 compared with the  
> fastest solution). Probably this should be optimized in an updated  
> version. It seems that regular expressions in Perl are by a factor  
> 6 faster (and again 8 times faster on my PC laptop).
> On the other hand, this shows that those cumbersome repeat loops  
> are surprisingly fast.
> The fastest is:
>
>   while char 1 of testString is space
>     delete char 1 of testString
>   end repeat
>
> taking about 1.8 microseconds per round (11 ticks for 100000  
> repeats), and with a string whiteSpace = tab && return a loop with
>   while char 1 of testString is in whiteSpace
> takes about twice as long.
>
>   word 1 to -1 of testString
> removing whitespace at the front and the end simultaneously is only  
> a little slower, while using token
>   token 1 to -1 of testString
> takes surprisingly three times as long as using "word".

These timing tests are not completely fair because:

   while char 1 of testString is space  ->  removes only space from  
front if any
     delete char 1 of testString
   end repeat

word 1 to -1 of testString   -> removes tabs, spaces and returns from  
front and back of string if any
token 1 to -1 of testString  -> removes tabs, spaces, hard spaces,  
and returns from front and back of string if any

You compare time it takes for frontal removal of space if any with  
time it takes for frontal and back removal of tab and space if any or  
tab, space and hard space (semicolon and return) if any.
To make it more fair, the time testing handlers should be equalized  
on the removal of tabs, spaces and hard spaces from front and back of  
a string.

On the other hand this gives an indication of which way to use in  
what case.

Greetings,
Wouter

PS
for token 1 to -1 of testString -> watch out for semicolon as it will  
be treated as a whitespace or itemdelimiter for token.
In the docs is stated that (semicolon), space, return, and tab are  
the itemdelimiters for token.
As hard spaces are also removed this listing is not complete and hard  
space should be added.

For me it seems kind of weird to the consider (semicolon), space,  
(hardspace), return, and tab as "itemdelimiters" for token, because  
they are removed as being whitespaces and are not really acting as an  
itemdelimiter.
On the other hand tokens themselves are more acting like a special  
kind of itemdelimiter.


From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Oct 25 20:52:12 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:52:12 +0100
Subject: OpenSockets and multiple stacks...?
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860510251530t7068aaedma929e91968660f7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1127343.1130277357481.JavaMail.johnpatten@mac.com>
	<f99b52860510251530t7068aaedma929e91968660f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <435ED33C.40804@tweedly.net>

Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>>Not sure if this is possible, but I'd like to be able to have a single stack, let's call it the instructors stack, send out a text message to multiple stacks all within a single classroom network all at one time. The "multiple stacks" would be student stacks.
>>
>>
>>I have had a look at some of the sample stacks in the "User Spaces" specifically the work that AlexTweedly has done with his "TCP and UDP" stacks, but have yet to determine if sockets would work in a implementation as i have described. I get the impression that sockets is something that can only occur between two stacks, not between one and many, or many to many.
>>
>>Or, do sockets allow you to open multiple sockets in order to facilitate mutliple connections to a single server stack?
>>
>>What I would like to get to is a Revolution based system similar to a classroom performance system (http://www.pearsonncs.com/cps/) but utilizing laptops and the improved capabilities of Revolution.
>>
>>    
>>
>
>I can't remember the exact details, but I seem to recall that you can
>broadcast a message over a UDP port by using IP address
>255.255.255.255
>
>Choose a certain port number (50000 in my examples) and on the
>instructor's computer open a socket to that port:
>  open socket to "255.255.255.255:50000"
>Send data out that port:
>  write "Hello there" to socket "255.255.255.255:50000"
>
>Have the student computers listen on that port number:
>  accept datagram connections on port 50000 with message doMessage
>
>The doMessage handler can get the received data and process it.
>
>Dar Scott had a UDP stack that demonstrated this better than I can explain it.
>  
>
Sarah's right - that is indeed one option. I'd be very wary of it, 
though. It will work fine in development and testing - but could fail in 
real deployments. It has two potential problems - at the opposite ends 
of the spectrum.

1. IP Broadcast packets are not forwarded by a router; so if the 
classroom network is internally routed, this will fail. Generally, I 
wouldn't expect this - but it's certainly possible, maybe even likely in 
some scenarios such as classrooms with a mix of wired desktops and 
wireless laptops - the wifi network may be allocated from a separate 
address space and routed within the campus.

2. IP Broadcasts are forwarded everywhere within the subnet; so if you 
have multiple classrooms on the campus, and they are not each a separate 
routed subnet, then you have a collision problem. You'd need to add 
program logic to ensure that the different instructors only pick up 
their own students, and only talk to their own students.  You also have 
the problem of all this broadcast traffic clogging up the network - 
modern campuses are typically switched networks to localize traffic, and 
broadcasts which go everywhere can destroy the localization.

So I'd (slightly regretfully) recommend using normal unicast (single 
machine to single machine) IP communication.


You also have the choice between UDP and TCP. While it is tempting to 
use UDP, I think this system needs a reliable form of communication so 
you can be sure the instructor receives all the info sent (and the 
students all receive what the instructor sends). Doing that in UDP for a 
multi-user system is certainly doable - but it's a fair amount of work 
to do it well, especially if you sometimes need to send large amounts of 
data.  Unless you get pretty clever, you'll need a response from each 
student to say that data has been received, with time-outs, repeated 
data (which all the others must ignore), etc.

Unless your classroom is larger than say 100 people, and assuming you 
can make the instructor's machine be a reasonable performance machine 
with a good connection (either wired or very good wifi), then I'd be 
tempted to go with the easy solution of opening a TCP socket from each 
student to the teacher, and just repeating all data.


It irks me to say that (I spent 5 years designing multicast protocols so 
this kind of problem could be solved more easily), but for the moment, 
given lack of multicast support in Rev and on most campuses, that is the 
pragmatic suggestion.

But if you'd like to tackle the other approach using UDP and either 
broadcast or repeated unicast packets, I'd be very willing to help.

The other option would be to do it as a peer-to-peer distribution using 
local repeaters - an even more interesting protocol design problem, but 
probably even less pragmatic a choice :-)



-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net

-------------- next part --------------
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From revdan at danshafer.com  Tue Oct 25 21:43:53 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:43:53 -0700
Subject: answer file with defaultPath
In-Reply-To: <20051026002458.78412.qmail@web60616.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051026002458.78412.qmail@web60616.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AE84AAA1-7B8D-4217-A702-4AB00FEE7DAD@danshafer.com>

Are you using Rev 2.6.1? This bug (# 3021) was reported fixed in that  
release.

But I must say that on OS X 10.4.2, it also fails to honor the path  
passed to it as a paramter. It seems to behave as the docs describe  
it should behave without a path argument being passed.


On Oct 25, 2005, at 5:24 PM, N Cueto wrote:

> According to the documentation on the "answer file"
> command, setting its "with defaultPath" parameter
> should cause the system's dialog box to list the
> specified folder's contents. This is however not
> working on my Win2K (Japanese) machine. Despite
> setting a default path -- which is stored in a
> global variable in the form, for example, of
> "C:/niconiko/Halloween/images" -- the file dialog
> box still opens up to the computer's root directory.
>
> Perhaps I've missed something?
>
> --
> Nicolas Cueto
> niconiko language school
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Oct 25 22:07:04 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 03:07:04 +0100
Subject: Help with image effect
In-Reply-To: <20051024181754.B37C3824F12@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051024181754.B37C3824F12@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <435EE4C8.5030109@tweedly.net>

MisterX wrote:

>Alex
>
>Here's the new script I made - note that now it's TAOO style ;)
>It applies to any control's rect... And it swaps layers at some
>point.
>The third parameter is a bit improved and the layer switch couldn't
>be smarter - no detection needed however it will switch one image's 
>layer above anything else... That can be changed correctly with a 
>bit more scripting...
>
>  
>
I've changed this (hopefully improved it) some more, so here it is back 
to add to your library.

I've made the movement more "natural", and I've added a couple of more 
parameters to support that.

The objects now accelerate from rest up to a "turnover" point, and then 
decelerate to a stop.

on imageSwap pObj1, pObj2, pNumber, pTurnover, pTime

pNumber : number of steps to make the move
pTurnover : number of steps of acceleration (remainder are deceleration)
pTime : number of msec between each step (assuming hw can keep up)

for my jigsaw puzzle game, I'll set the turnover at around 3/4 of the 
total - so the pieces speed up and then screech into place just in time :-)

(note it puts the moving objects on the top layers - up to you whether 
to do that or swap their layers).

>on mouseUp
>  imageswap the long name of img 1, the long name of img 2,fld 1
>end mouseUp
>
>  
>

on imageSwap pObj1, pObj2, pNumber, pTurnover, pTime
    local r1, r2
    local dtlx, dtly, dbrx, dbry
    local tDecc, tRemain
    local tLast
    
    if paramCount() < 3 or pNumber is not a number or pNumber < 3  then
        put 20 into pNumber
    end if
   
    if paramCount() < 4 or pTurnover is not a number or pTurnover > 
pNumber  then
        put pNumber / 2 into pTurnover
    end if
   
    if paramCount() < 5 or pTime is not a number  then
        put 72 into pTime
    end if
   
    set the layer of pObj1 to the number of layers on this card + 1
    set the layer of pObj2 to the number of layers on this card + 1
    
    put the rect of pObj1 into r1
    put the rect of pObj2 into r2
    
    -- Accelerate from rest until pTurnover, then decelerate to stop at 
pNumber
   
   
    -- assume acc = 1, so decc can be calculated
    --   v-turn = acc * turnover =  decc * remaining time
    put (pNumber - pTurnover) into tRemain
    put pTurnover / tRemain into tDecc
   
    -- now calculate distance
    put 0.5  * pTurnover^2 + pTurnover * tRemain  - 0.5 * tDecc * 
tRemain^2 into tDelta
      
    put (item 1 of r2 - item 1 of r1)/tDelta into dtlx
    put (item 2 of r2 - item 2 of r1)/tDelta into dtly
    put (item 3 of r2 - item 3 of r1)/tDelta into dbrx
    put (item 4 of r2 - item 4 of r1)/tDelta into dbry
    
    put 0 into N
    put the millisecs into tLast
    repeat with i = 1 to pNumber
        if i <= pTurnover then
            put 0.5 *  i^2   into N
        else
            put 0.5 *  pTurnover^2 + pTurnover*(i-pTurnover) - ( 0.5 * 
tDecc * (pTurnover-i)^2 )  into N
        end if
        set the rect of pObj1 to trunc(item 1 of r1 + N*dtlx), 
trunc(item 2 of r1 + N*dtly), trunc(item 3 of r1 + N*dbrx), trunc(item 4 
of r1 + N*dbry)
        set the rect of pObj2 to trunc(item 1 of r2 - N*dtlx), 
trunc(item 2 of r2 - N*dtly), trunc(item 3 of r2 - N*dbrx), trunc(item 4 
of r2 - N*dbry)
        if the millisecs < tLast + pTime then
            wait (tLast + pTime - the millisecs) milliseconds with messages
            put the millisecs into tLast
        end if
    end repeat
    
end imageSwap

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/148 - Release Date: 25/10/2005



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 25 23:15:46 2005
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:15:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: (Pre) ANN: Pattern Toolkit Gallery -- 21st century plaids
In-Reply-To: <435D4A45.1000901@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <20051026031546.65412.qmail@web33014.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


beautiful 21st century plaids
reflecting the Scottish origin of Rev.

Erik Hansen

--- Wilhelm Sanke <sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de>
wrote:

> I have added a gallery of images to my website
> <http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia> (scroll down
> on the left and select
> "Pattern Art").
> 
> The images are examples created with my
> "Pattern Toolkit" built with
> Metacard/Revolution (for some reason it is
> impossible to build a
> standalone of this stack in the Revolution IDE,
> but it is possible in
> the leaner alternative Metacard IDE).
> 
> I intend to offer the toolkit as a free
> download in the middle of
> November. The GUI of this up to now very
> personal tool needs first to be
> cleaned up and organised, as there are more
> than 100 different functions
> and algorithms to create basic color patterns
> and to transform them into
> various secondary and tertiary patterns by
> means of different kinds of
> overlays, shifting, rotating, creating
> multi-directional color
> transitions (gradients), using vertical and
> horizontal flips and
> (partial) mirrors etc..
> 
> The toolkit is a further development of an
> older tool that used small
> fields as color units (compare my stack
> <www.sanke.org/Software/RevTestStacks.zip>
> which is also attached to
> Bugzilla 2217; see also my comments on page
> "Tools and Samples for
> Development" on my website concerning the so
> far unresolved difficulties
> for the Rev IDE).
> 
> The new toolkit now uses backcolors of chars in
> a 120x160 matrix
> (instead of the former 5400 fields) to achieve
> a satisfactory resolution
> that enables the user to enlarge the finally
> saved image. You can try
> out this for yourself after downloading the
> real-size JPEG images.
> 
> 
>  To navigate to the individual images click on
> the thumbs.-
> 
> As usual, there remains the question of the
> intentions and the
> usefulness of such a tool. I think a number of
> answers are possible.
> 
> In my experience it is a very creative tool,
> maybe mainly useless, but
> somehow fascinating as I find myself spending
> long hours experimenting
> with ever changing patterns.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Wilhelm Sanke
> <www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>

erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 25 23:19:26 2005
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:19:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT: Phishy Paypal -- reinstalling OS helps?
In-Reply-To: <p06200700bf843052d6d2@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <20051026031926.98094.qmail@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



--- Timothy Miller
<gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com> wrote:

> Is it possible a trojan on your computer is 
> covertly sending copies of your email to a bad 
> guy? As I understand it, the average Windows 
> machine connected to the internet is infected 
> with a couple of dozen malware items.
> 
> Otherwise, it's likely a coincidence. I get two
> or three phishing spams a day.

i did reinstall Windows.
should that solve my problems?

erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Oct 26 00:28:40 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:28:40 -0400
Subject: OT: Phishy Paypal -- reinstalling OS helps?
In-Reply-To: <20051026031926.98094.qmail@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051026031926.98094.qmail@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <78ddc0ad05d97b39f125b5d59ec6f91a@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 25, 2005, at 11:19 PM, Erik Hansen wrote:

> i did reinstall Windows.
> should that solve my problems?

It can always help. Of course, it's STILL Windows.  ;-)

Firewall, AntiVirus, Anti-Spyware, Adaware, RootKit detection, and very 
judicious downloading are all highly recommended.

Wow, whenever I read that list, I always wonder if it's worth it.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Wed Oct 26 02:12:47 2005
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (ron barber)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:12:47 +0900
Subject: Plain text or Unicodetext?
In-Reply-To: <000101c5d6cf$4ca6c7a0$0201010a@proherp3t4vojr>
References: <000101c5d6cf$4ca6c7a0$0201010a@proherp3t4vojr>
Message-ID: <2876254395e13fac515dcea3d5191153@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Hi,

Is there a way to determine if the text returned from a dialog is ascii 
text or unicodedtext? I tried working with the chartonum, useunicode 
and baseconvert functions to no avail.

I tried converting and comparing uniencoded versions with the original 
text and no go. I have tried what I know so I turn to the list.

Thanks
Ron



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 26 02:15:51 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:15:51 -0700
Subject: video, frame grab, ftp question
In-Reply-To: <3CD159C8-0FA8-440D-A43C-B09DEAA8CB6A@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BF846D27.2F938%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Here is a challenge that I would like to meet using as much Rev as possible

1) satellite TV feed to decoder (black box)  [this is a legal subscription
feed by the way]
2) decoder channel to input on an old Mac G4 350 mH (probably RCA video
input)
3) frame grab black/white only, perhaps every 5-10 seconds
4) FTP a jpg of the frame to a server
5) use an IR signal emitter to change the channel on the decoder via Rev
6) auto-download the jpg on client computer to display in a Rev window

Small image size is preferred, no animation, just stop action of 5-10 secs.
Would like to use AppleScriptable apps if possible to achieve timing.
Alternate could be an automatic grabbing utility (ala security/web cam
software) and just pick up the file it would generate at preset intervals.
OSX Tiger (possibly Panther, Jaguar, OS9)
Framegrab PCI card OK or a USB ext device OK
Sound not nec.  G4 would only be used for this purpose.

I have already designed ftp agent apps to pass files around between offices.
Would like the Rev client app user to click to change the channel on the
decoder using another Rev app on the G4 video provider.
This is a new area for me, but the client is hoping that I can 'magic up' a
working solution.

Any ideas or specific recommendations?

Jim Ault
Las Vegas




From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Wed Oct 26 03:46:36 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:46:36 +0200
Subject: video, frame grab, ftp question
In-Reply-To: <BF846D27.2F938%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <OF56B33371.76B0D286-ONC12570A6.0029E4D6-C12570A6.002AB7E9@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Jim,

I also use a sat decoder - linux box in disguise with a PPC chip named the 
dreambox.

Is your black box networked?

If so, there's different clients to log-on, rsh and telnet to it. 
Moreover, you can control the "remote control"
interface via a java clients or something custom that can be made in rev 
(which i dont want to go into
since the java client does it all already). With this interface (in this 
case the Gemini Manager for dreambox)
you can framegrab, import recorded movies, schedule recordings, etc... 
Sounds like what you need...

The key would be to look for such a client for your blackbox - hopefully 
there is one for Mac or unix that can be ported to
osx... 

The dreambox can also emulate different decoders and gets frequent "system 
updates" via the
net (including codecs, keys, sat-directories, EPGs, etc) which is why it's 
so interesting... Im not sure it's legal in the
states though - but it's easy to find in europe... www.dreamboxworld.com 
has most the info and links you'll need.

Just throwing some magic ideas that work well in this category for me and 
a few friends who have dreamboxes.
What's the feed name? 

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 26/10/2005 08:15:51:

> Here is a challenge that I would like to meet using as much Rev as 
possible
> 
> 1) satellite TV feed to decoder (black box)  [this is a legal 
subscription
> feed by the way]
> 2) decoder channel to input on an old Mac G4 350 mH (probably RCA video
> input)
> 3) frame grab black/white only, perhaps every 5-10 seconds
> 4) FTP a jpg of the frame to a server
> 5) use an IR signal emitter to change the channel on the decoder via Rev
> 6) auto-download the jpg on client computer to display in a Rev window
> 
> Small image size is preferred, no animation, just stop action of 5-10 
secs.
> Would like to use AppleScriptable apps if possible to achieve timing.
> Alternate could be an automatic grabbing utility (ala security/web cam
> software) and just pick up the file it would generate at preset 
intervals.
> OSX Tiger (possibly Panther, Jaguar, OS9)
> Framegrab PCI card OK or a USB ext device OK
> Sound not nec.  G4 would only be used for this purpose.
> 
> I have already designed ftp agent apps to pass files around between 
offices.
> Would like the Rev client app user to click to change the channel on the
> decoder using another Rev app on the G4 video provider.
> This is a new area for me, but the client is hoping that I can 'magic 
up' a
> working solution.
> 
> Any ideas or specific recommendations?
> 
> Jim Ault
> Las Vegas
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



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From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Oct 26 04:26:16 2005
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:26:16 +0200
Subject: video, frame grab, ftp question
In-Reply-To: <BF846D27.2F938%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
References: <BF846D27.2F938%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06200703bf84ec3045dd@[10.0.0.112]>

>Here is a challenge that I would like to meet using as much Rev as possible
>
>1) satellite TV feed to decoder (black box)  [this is a legal subscription
>feed by the way]
>2) decoder channel to input on an old Mac G4 350 mH (probably RCA video
>input)
>3) frame grab black/white only, perhaps every 5-10 seconds
>4) FTP a jpg of the frame to a server
>5) use an IR signal emitter to change the channel on the decoder via Rev
>6) auto-download the jpg on client computer to display in a Rev window
>
>Small image size is preferred, no animation, just stop action of 5-10 secs.
>Would like to use AppleScriptable apps if possible to achieve timing.
>Alternate could be an automatic grabbing utility (ala security/web cam
>software) and just pick up the file it would generate at preset intervals.
>OSX Tiger (possibly Panther, Jaguar, OS9)
>Framegrab PCI card OK or a USB ext device OK
>Sound not nec.  G4 would only be used for this purpose.

I used to have a Mac 6300 with a TV tuner installed. I hooked my cable
TV feed up to it and would use QuickTime to save sections of video or
to do screen captures. At the time I was using SuperCard and externals
provided by 'Royal Software' (I think...correct Ro?) to do ftp.

http://retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/m_power.html#6300
from 7 October 2005 has:

6300 system with TV card This has a PowerPC 100Mz processor. With 
TV/NTSC video and TV tuner card, 1GB hard drive, CD-ROM, 16 MB RAM. 
I'd offer this system for $75 plus shipping. Weight of complete 
system, 30 lbs.
6320 system with TV card 100MHz PowerPC processor, with TV/NTSC video 
and TV tuner card, 1GB hard drive, CD-ROM. 16MB RAM. I'd offer this 
system for $79 plus shipping. Weight of complete system, 30 lbs.

Yikes! $75.00!

Probably not exactly what you are looking for but a cool machine. I also had
a Beehive box hooked up to that machine which would enable me to hook up
ordinary household appliances (click on a 'fan icon' and the fan in 
my room went on,
stuff like that).

ciao,
sims


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Oct 26 04:55:28 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:55:28 +0200
Subject: AW: long (?) filenames in players
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCGEILDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
References: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCGEILDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <1A02A681-DE77-485E-94C2-B02C73882C61@major-k.de>

Hi Thomas,

> Hi Klaus,
>
> is it really "Schlockche"? That sounds weird.

it is, weird indeed, but that is "K?lsch Platt",
the "mundart" (slang/idiom) spoken in "Cologne" :-D

> But apart from this, if the system (whoever is doing the  
> interpretation of the file path) understands the %20 encoding for  
> space, you could try the same encoding for the extended charset:
>
>   put empty into newString
>   repeat for each character i in orgTextString
>     if charToNum(i) > 127 then
>       put "%"& baseConvert(charToNum(i),10,16) after newString
>     else put i after newString
>   end repeat
>   answer newString

Sounds good, i will surely give it a try!

But in the meantime i use my own workaround by using a temporary SMIL  
file,
see my post from yesterday.

Thanks a lot.

> All the best
> Thomas
>
>
> --
> Thomas Fischer
> Salzburg/Gottingen

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Oct 26 05:31:31 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:31:31 +0200
Subject: AW: long (?) filenames in players
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCGEILDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
References: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCGEILDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <71628C0F-10F8-404B-A34C-8B4414F32C93@major-k.de>

Hallo Thomas,

> Hi Klaus,
>
> is it really "Schlockche"? That sounds weird.
>
> But apart from this, if the system (whoever is doing the  
> interpretation of the file path)

i think it is the engine...(?)

> understands the %20 encoding for space, you could try the same  
> encoding for the extended charset:
>
>   put empty into newString
>   repeat for each character i in orgTextString
>     if charToNum(i) > 127 then
>       put "%"& baseConvert(charToNum(i),10,16) after newString
>     else put i after newString
>   end repeat
>   answer newString
>
> All the best
> Thomas
>
>
> --
> Thomas Fischer
> Salzburg/Gottingen

Tried it, but did not work :-/


Regards und Servus :-)

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From mlange at lexicall.org  Wed Oct 26 05:57:32 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:57:32 +0100
Subject: docsWiki
Message-ID: <D713A4AA-C0AA-4E03-8175-FE27F36AD31F@lexicall.org>

Hi Mark,


> Could an expert scripter create a template rev stack  that would  
> wikify all the existing revdocs in one fell swoop and send them to   
> their appropriate places in the wiki/web structure (however that  
> works for wikis, no idea here).   Just a question.  I'm sure it's  
> not easy or someone would have done it.
>

I wouldn't call myself an expert scripter but
(1) I have already written an html 2 wiki translator for my own needs
(2) I have already written a rev application that let you edit wiki  
documents on the desktop:
http://projects.lexicall.org/portal/wikipad.php
(3) I have a start of a colorisation routine (to apply colorisation  
according to the wiki syntax).

That bit is the very easy part (one day of work).... The reason I am  
trying to get a momentum is that the *difficult* bit is ensuring  
continuing contribution and maintenance (and no, I will not do all  
the work for you... I am ready to help set up a structure... but I am  
not signing for the role of documentation manager for the next 10  
years of my life).

For maximum members participation, we need to have a solid structure.

So, I continue trying to get it of the ground:

Somebody suggested we needed an appropriate domain name. I Fully  
agree. Easy enough. Most business packages let you host or park up to  
4 domain names (that's what mine do). Who would be ready to sponsor  
and buy the domain name (about $10)?

What do you suggest for the name?  The following names are  
available:  revdocs.co.uk, revdocs.org.uk, revdocs.ltd.uk,  
revdocs.plc.uk, revdocs.me.uk, revdocs.com, revdocs.net, revdocs.org,  
revdocs.info, revdocs.biz  (with xtalk, all interesting ones are  
registered).
If you have an opinion on this:
http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-take_survey.php?surveyId=3

Many providers nowadays give access to Fantastico. This means that  
any of the packages below can be installed at the click of a mouse.  
The pros and cons of each package can be evaluated at: <http:// 
opensourcecms.com/>  (a website that gives you the opportunity to  
"try out" some of the best php/mysql based free and open source  
software systems in the world). For my wiki, I use tikiwiki and I am  
very happy with it ). Wikipedia uses media wiki (http:// 
www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki). If you have any experience with  
any of these and strongly recommend one for the purpose of hosting  
software documentation, give a shout.

More to the point: What are the features that you believe are really  
important to have in the revdocwiki?
You have an opinion, http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki- 
take_survey.php?surveyId=3

           Content Management
           Drupal; Geeklog; Mambo Open Source; PHP-Nuke; phpWCMS;  
phpWebSite;
           Post-Nuke; Siteframe; Typo3; Xoops

           Wiki
           TikiWiki; PhpWiki

           Customer Relationship
           Crafty Syntax Live Help; Help Center Live; osTicket; PHP  
Support Tickets;
           Support Logic Helpdesk; Support Services Manager

           Discussion Boards
           phpBB2; SMF

           Blogs
           b2evolution; Nucleus; pMachine Free; WordPress

           Other Scripts
           Dew-NewPHPLinks; Moodle; Noahs Classifieds; Open-Realty;  
phpAdsNew;
           PHPauction; phpFormGenerator; WebCalendar

           Extras;
           Language Side menu appearance; Email notifications;  
Installations overview

Cheers,
Marielle

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org





From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Wed Oct 26 08:25:05 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:25:05 -0400
Subject: step in debugger?
Message-ID: <FF544E0C-E070-4CF5-8A97-4B20CE6AB024@conncoll.edu>

I've been bumbling numbly along with debugging -- and somehow it just  
occurred to me that something's wrong here:

I put a breakpoint on a line in the middle of a script, run till I  
hit it, look at some variables, press Step . . . and the script runs,  
not stopping till complete/crash/next breakpoint.

In any other debugging environment I've seen, that's not what "step"  
means. It means execute the currently-highlighted line and stop.

(This is using Constellation, but I assume it's behavior of the  
underlying debugging engine, not the UI.)

Charles Hartman

From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Wed Oct 26 09:43:51 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:43:51 +0100
Subject: Deleting an Array Entry
In-Reply-To: <FF544E0C-E070-4CF5-8A97-4B20CE6AB024@conncoll.edu>
References: <FF544E0C-E070-4CF5-8A97-4B20CE6AB024@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <a05210600bf8537e5ca27@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi All,

How do I delete an item from an array?

Given that I have:

"Key1","Data1"
"Key2","Data2"
"Key3","Data3"

in myArray, how do I delete "Key2", to give:

"Key1","Data1"
"Key2","Data2"
"Key3","Data3"

Thanks a lot
Dave


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Wed Oct 26 10:01:35 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:01:35 -0400
Subject: Deleting an Array Entry
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bf8537e5ca27@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <FF544E0C-E070-4CF5-8A97-4B20CE6AB024@conncoll.edu>
	<a05210600bf8537e5ca27@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <E764C559-D647-4569-87CA-AA1A3A8CF9B4@conncoll.edu>


On Oct 26, 2005, at 9:43 AM, David Burgun wrote:

> How do I delete an item from an array?
>
> Given that I have:
>
> "Key1","Data1"
> "Key2","Data2"
> "Key3","Data3"
>
> in myArray, how do I delete "Key2", to give:
>
> "Key1","Data1"
> "Key2","Data2"
> "Key3","Data3"

That result, at least, is easy. ;)

Is it not good enough to delete the value associated with "Key2"? I  
think (I could certainly, easily, probably, be wrong) the only way to  
eliminate the key itself would be to make a new array and copy the  
other key/value pairs to it . . .

Charles Hartman




From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Wed Oct 26 10:01:01 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:01:01 -0700
Subject: OT: Phishy Paypal -- reinstalling OS helps?
In-Reply-To: <78ddc0ad05d97b39f125b5d59ec6f91a@rpsystems.net>
References: <20051026031926.98094.qmail@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<78ddc0ad05d97b39f125b5d59ec6f91a@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <p06230903bf853ab378e2@[192.168.1.104]>

You could also get a Mac, and save a ton of money on that anti-virus crap!
(never bought virus protection, never will.)
Doesn't it seem silly that you have to buy all those add-ons just to 
run your machine? And if it's required for operation, isn't that the 
job and duty of the operating system?

>On Oct 25, 2005, at 11:19 PM, Erik Hansen wrote:
>
>>i did reinstall Windows.
>>should that solve my problems?
>
>It can always help. Of course, it's STILL Windows.  ;-)
>
>Firewall, AntiVirus, Anti-Spyware, Adaware, RootKit detection, and 
>very judicious downloading are all highly recommended.
>
>Wow, whenever I read that list, I always wonder if it's worth it.
>
>--
>Troy

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Oct 26 10:06:00 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:06:00 +0100
Subject: Deleting an Array Entry
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bf8537e5ca27@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <FF544E0C-E070-4CF5-8A97-4B20CE6AB024@conncoll.edu>
	<a05210600bf8537e5ca27@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <435F8D48.3060207@tweedly.net>

David Burgun wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> How do I delete an item from an array?
>
> Given that I have:
>
> "Key1","Data1"
> "Key2","Data2"
> "Key3","Data3"
>
> in myArray, how do I delete "Key2", to give:
>
You say
  delete variable myArray["Key2"]

See the "delete variable" entry in the docs

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/149 - Release Date: 25/10/2005



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Wed Oct 26 09:50:48 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:50:48 -0400
Subject: docWikis
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A974464F@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

I have no problem using whatever standards we agree upon. I am not sure
I possess the html skills to do that - but whatever, I can learn.

I chose that particular wiki site because it appears to be unlimited and
free (which always makes me nervous). It is a site that allows for easy
editing of each page, and easy creation of new pages. I am not committed
to using that particular site, I just wanted to get a sense of how much
work would be involved. It would be a decent amount of work, but nothing
insurmountable. I can take a few minutes during lunch today to see if
the files on that site would be portable to another site if need be.

So far, I have only put in a small part of the dictionary (about halfway
through the Cs), and that is without any internal links.

I really believe that getting people to use it would not be too
difficult. It would become a natural process - one that extends from
discussions on this list. Think about the process of finding bugs -
first we discuss them on here, then when a bug is fully identified one
of us puts it on bugzilla. This would be the same - first we discuss how
to use a given command (which happens constantly on this list) then one
of us adds the explanation to the appropriate wiki page. I think the
others on the list will use it when they realize it is easy, and that it
saves them time. It saves them time because in the future they can refer
to a specific page on the wiki site for a given explanation, rather than
constantly re-explaining the issue each time it is raised anew on this
list.

If I keep going with that or a similar site, I would envision three
steps:

1) put in the dictionary and how-to docs
2) go back and add internal links
3) look through the archives of this list and add in any explanations
that seem appropriate for each command

After that, we can add in other sections, like for links to the various
rev pages, or whatever else we want.

Take care,

Jonathan


-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Marielle
Lange
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 7:56 PM
To: use Revolution How to
Subject: RE: docWikis

Jonathan,

Congrats for your website. Nice addition to the family. Feel free to  
step on my toes... you are welcome to dance on them if you fancy :-).

You insisted that you did it to check out how difficult it would be.  
Point taken.

But the point made by Tim is an important one. You will have user  
contribution when you successfully persuade them that the work they  
put into this will not be wasted. In fact, I didn't make any attempt  
to upload the doc on my own wiki because I was aware that structure  
had to precede content. I didn't take too much time transferring the  
many notes and snippets I have on my computer onto the wiki for this  
very reason too.

Your document is completely unstructured (I understand this is the  
source of the doc itself):
<P>altID</B> property</FONT><FONT size=3> (any object)</FONT></ 
P><FONT color=#606060 size=2>
<P>Platform support: </P></FONT><FONT size=1>
<P>Introduced in version 1.0</P></FONT>
<P>Specifies an alternate ID for objects.</P><B><FONT face="Courier  
New" size=1>
<P>set the altID of <I>object</I> to <I>IDNumber</P></B></I></ 
FONT><FONT face="Courier New" size=1>
<P>put the altID of this card into myID</P>
<P>repeat while the altID of stack myStack &lt;&gt; 0</P></FONT><FONT  
color=#606060 size=2>
<P>See also: </FONT><FONT size=3>ID property </FONT></P><B><FONT  
color=#606060 size=2>

Can you control the css behind your wiki pages?

This suggests you do:
         <LINK REL="stylesheet" TYPE="text/css" HREF="/otherpages/ 
red_and_gray_full_screen/wiki.css">
         <LINK REL="stylesheet" TYPE="text/css" media="print"  
HREF="http://www.seedwiki.com/otherpages/seedwiki/wiki_print.css">

But can you add new tags within your wiki page that match css  
divisions? This is what I wanted to do in my wiki before trying to  
get more persons contribute. With divisions and conventions, the  
material can be very easily exchanged.


So what about the idea of standards... Only got two respondents so  
far and one is myself.
Would users of this list conform to standards if I have the  
initiative to design some?  If you want to get a poor soul (me) spend  
a few days on this, you should consider taking 1 minute to answer the  
very short survey at:
http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-take_survey.php?surveyId=1

By experience, I know that many persons like to answer... do the job,  
spend much much time on it... then when you have finished, if I am  
satisfied with the work you have done, I may end up using it....  
Comments, feedback? No, too early. I will wait for you to present me  
with a finished product and then I may give you some feedback if I  
find the time for it.

So many great things haven't been realized because of this  
attitude ;-). If you believe we should go for a reliable revdoc  
system... one that can easily be moved from one place to another  
without too much cost if we discover that the first environment we  
try has intrinsic limits or if we want to take advantage of  
unexpected changes in technology... help make it happen. At the very  
minimum, indicate whether you will be really to adopt the standards  
if they are put in place. I am ready to spend my energy designing  
good standards. I am not much ready to spend a lot of it harassing  
members of this list to start using them. The spider guy moto is that  
with great power comes great responsibilities.... I believe the  
opposite is also true: with responsibilities come power. We can wait  
for revolution to present us with a frequently updated documentation  
system (which honestly, will never happen), or we can have it done  
ourselves, thanks to the addition of small contributions from all  
members. But for this, we need a momemtum. One or two activists will  
not be enough to make it work.

Marielle
------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Wed Oct 26 10:11:59 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:11:59 -0400
Subject: Deleting an Array Entry
In-Reply-To: <435F8D48.3060207@tweedly.net>
References: <FF544E0C-E070-4CF5-8A97-4B20CE6AB024@conncoll.edu>
	<a05210600bf8537e5ca27@[192.168.0.101]>
	<435F8D48.3060207@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <71CEE15C-2D95-4316-A2EB-4BE04A006BF3@conncoll.edu>

I love it when somebody asks a question on this list, and somebody  
else answers, and I learn something I should have known. I just have  
to remember to leave out that _middle_ step, trying to answer myself.

Charles Hartman

On Oct 26, 2005, at 10:06 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> You say
>  delete variable myArray["Key2"]
>
> See the "delete variable" entry in the docs
>



From david at openpartnership.net  Wed Oct 26 10:13:06 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:13:06 +0200
Subject: video, frame grab, ftp question
In-Reply-To: <BF846D27.2F938%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
References: <BF846D27.2F938%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BC80E153-578C-48D9-9BD2-31359F7F53BC@openpartnership.net>

On 26 Oct 2005, at 08:15, Jim Ault wrote:

> Here is a challenge that I would like to meet using as much Rev as  
> possible
>
> 1) satellite TV feed to decoder (black box)  [this is a legal  
> subscription
> feed by the way]
> 2) decoder channel to input on an old Mac G4 350 mH (probably RCA  
> video
> input)
> 3) frame grab black/white only, perhaps every 5-10 seconds
> 4) FTP a jpg of the frame to a server
> 5) use an IR signal emitter to change the channel on the decoder  
> via Rev
> 6) auto-download the jpg on client computer to display in a Rev window
>
> Small image size is preferred, no animation, just stop action of  
> 5-10 secs.
> Would like to use AppleScriptable apps if possible to achieve timing.

I'd think of using www.videoscript.com for frame grabbing and  
applescript. A new project for me is likely to involve open source  
Personal Video Recorders (http://www.mythtv.org/) and file sharing -  
but not explored it that much at the moment....


From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Oct 26 10:16:37 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:16:37 +0100
Subject: step in debugger?
In-Reply-To: <FF544E0C-E070-4CF5-8A97-4B20CE6AB024@conncoll.edu>
References: <FF544E0C-E070-4CF5-8A97-4B20CE6AB024@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <435F8FC5.7080303@tweedly.net>

Charles Hartman wrote:

> I've been bumbling numbly along with debugging -- and somehow it just  
> occurred to me that something's wrong here:
>
> I put a breakpoint on a line in the middle of a script, run till I  
> hit it, look at some variables, press Step . . . and the script runs,  
> not stopping till complete/crash/next breakpoint.
>
> In any other debugging environment I've seen, that's not what "step"  
> means. It means execute the currently-highlighted line and stop.
>
"step" means (pretty much) what you'd expect it to mean from other 
environments - so there is something specific going wrong.

One possible (maybe even likely) candidate is that if you are putting 
your breakpoint on the last statement in a handler or function, then 
Step will just run onwards - you need to use "Step into" to step in *or 
out* of a handler or function. (There is a BZ for this, I believe).

If it's not that - please tell us more....

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/149 - Release Date: 25/10/2005



From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Oct 26 10:30:39 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:30:39 -0400
Subject: OT: Phishy Paypal -- reinstalling OS helps?
In-Reply-To: <p06230903bf853ab378e2@[192.168.1.104]>
References: <20051026031926.98094.qmail@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<78ddc0ad05d97b39f125b5d59ec6f91a@rpsystems.net>
	<p06230903bf853ab378e2@[192.168.1.104]>
Message-ID: <e8695df82008d6a31bd09e77edba423c@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 26, 2005, at 10:01 AM, Stephen Barncard wrote:

> Doesn't it seem silly that you have to buy all those add-ons just to 
> run your machine?

I don't. I have 10 Macs.

But, if you are using Windows, you need all that stuff.  ;-)

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Wed Oct 26 10:37:02 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:37:02 -0400
Subject: step in debugger?
In-Reply-To: <435F8FC5.7080303@tweedly.net>
References: <FF544E0C-E070-4CF5-8A97-4B20CE6AB024@conncoll.edu>
	<435F8FC5.7080303@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <8576F2B9-164C-4164-ACB8-6C92701260FE@conncoll.edu>

Thanks. No, that twist on it I had recognized -- so if I need a  
breakpoint-and-step at the end of a handler, I put in a "put 0 into  
tDummy" line at the end.

In this case, the breakpoint line is in the middle of the handler, in  
the middle of a repeat loop or a 'try' structure. (Now I can't  
remember which handler I was debugging yesterday when I finally  
noticed this! though I know it's happened before.)

Is it possible that "try" doesn't mix right with breakpoints and  
"step"? But I know I noticed step misbehaving when there *wasn't* a  
problem in the code, so it's not a matter of the "try" having kicked  
me out into the "catch". (And in that case, shouldn't "step" take me  
to the first line of the "catch" anyway?)

I hope this makes more sense. I *think* this was the code I was  
debugging:

     repeat for each line tLine in fld "playerListFld"
         if tLine is not empty then
             put empty into tPlayerRecToStore
             put word 1 of tLine into tPersonID
             put tPersonID into tPlayerRecToStore["personID"]
             put tPerformanceID into tPlayerRecToStore["performID"]
             -- apparently no good way to "batch" store all these  
records
             try
                 get libdb_addToTable(gDB, "players",  
tPlayerRecToStore, "personID")
             catch errMsg
                 put false into storeOK
                 handleDatabaseError errMsg
             end try
         end if
     end repeat
     select text of fld "playerListFld"
     [and so on . . .]

with the breakpoint on the "get libdb_ . . ." line.

Charles Hartman

On Oct 26, 2005, at 10:16 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Charles Hartman wrote:
>
>
>> I've been bumbling numbly along with debugging -- and somehow it  
>> just  occurred to me that something's wrong here:
>>
>> I put a breakpoint on a line in the middle of a script, run till  
>> I  hit it, look at some variables, press Step . . . and the script  
>> runs,  not stopping till complete/crash/next breakpoint.
>>
>> In any other debugging environment I've seen, that's not what  
>> "step"  means. It means execute the currently-highlighted line and  
>> stop.
>>
>>
> "step" means (pretty much) what you'd expect it to mean from other  
> environments - so there is something specific going wrong.
>
> One possible (maybe even likely) candidate is that if you are  
> putting your breakpoint on the last statement in a handler or  
> function, then Step will just run onwards - you need to use "Step  
> into" to step in *or out* of a handler or function. (There is a BZ  
> for this, I believe).
>
> If it's not that - please tell us more....
>
> -- 
> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/149 - Release Date:  
> 25/10/2005
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From david at openpartnership.net  Wed Oct 26 10:46:07 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:46:07 +0200
Subject: docsWiki
In-Reply-To: <D713A4AA-C0AA-4E03-8175-FE27F36AD31F@lexicall.org>
References: <D713A4AA-C0AA-4E03-8175-FE27F36AD31F@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <FDDB966E-8E75-439E-B987-D5522F9E9E2F@openpartnership.net>

On 26 Oct 2005, at 11:57, Marielle Lange wrote:

>> Could an expert scripter create a template rev stack  that would  
>> wikify all the existing revdocs in one fell swoop and send them  
>> to  their appropriate places in the wiki/web structure (however  
>> that works for wikis, no idea here).   Just a question.  I'm sure  
>> it's not easy or someone would have done it.
>
> I wouldn't call myself an expert scripter but
> (1) I have already written an html 2 wiki translator for my own needs
> (2) I have already written a rev application that let you edit wiki  
> documents on the desktop:
> http://projects.lexicall.org/portal/wikipad.php
> (3) I have a start of a colorisation routine (to apply colorisation  
> according to the wiki syntax).

Yes -- and I have code to read and write to an online wiki (at the  
moment not with authentication for TikiWiki) - I am aiming to use ssh  
and certificates for any secure and easy to script work on this - lot  
easier than coding the session managment.

> What do you suggest for the name?  The following names are  
> available:  revdocs.co.uk, revdocs.org.uk, revdocs.ltd.uk,  
> revdocs.plc.uk, revdocs.me.uk, revdocs.com, revdocs.net,  
> revdocs.org, revdocs.info, revdocs.biz  (with xtalk, all  
> interesting ones are registered).

revdocs.org / net / com sound fine to me. Happy to register them  
today if you want on behalf of any group that want to take this forward.

> Many providers nowadays give access to Fantastico. This means that  
> any of the packages below can be installed at the click of a mouse.  
> The pros and cons of each package can be evaluated at: <http:// 
> opensourcecms.com/>  (a website that gives you the opportunity to  
> "try out" some of the best php/mysql based free and open source  
> software systems in the world). For my wiki, I use tikiwiki and I  
> am very happy with it ). Wikipedia uses media wiki (http:// 
> www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki). If you have any experience with  
> any of these and strongly recommend one for the purpose of hosting  
> software documentation, give a shout.

I have moved off TikiWiki and MediaWiki has the same problems - hard  
to integrate with Rev and not purpose built for the task. These are  
what I would suggest are the requirements for the best documentation  
wiki for our purpose:

     1) Robust well supported open source wiki
     2) Full wiki functionality revealed via web services - XmlRPC  
for instance - to allow direct integration with Rev
     3) Code and binary stack versioning linked to wiki documentation
     4) Extensible syntax highlighting
     5) Email notifications for changes
     6) Simple navigation and the ability

The basic functionality I imagine is to have a simple site with an  
index / outline of the documentation which would automatically be  
generated from the wiki. A user could use the web site to contribute  
to the wiki or access, read and write to the wiki directly from  
within Revolution. There would also be a section of code snippets and  
handlers with SVN for version management linked to the wiki  
documentation for the code. A user would be able to search and  
download these code snippets directly from within Revolution.

Additionally I have requirements to add the following:

     1) Issue tracking (tickets) and milestone support
     2) LDAP support
     3) Folksonomy tag support - ie video, regEx, recusive

The only wiki that supports all of these is Jira:

      - http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/
      - http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/JIRAEXT/JIRA 
+Subversion+plugin

It is not open source, but is free for open source projects. It is a  
robust commercial product used by MySQl and a number of large open  
source community. Very well designed.

Trac is the only open source solution that comes close:

     - http://www.edgewall.com/trac/

We have it installed here, but not with the SVN bit and syntax  
colouring working here. It also lacks XML-RPC support at the moment,  
but using https we can work around that.

Regarding hosting - I can offer this on a dedicated server if a small  
group of us would like to contribute.






From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Wed Oct 26 10:28:51 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:28:51 -0400
Subject: docWikis
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744650@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

Hi Marielle,

That particular site does indeed allow both style sheet control and an
easy download of all the page material in one shot.

However, the package for allowing one to have one's own domain name
costs $50 per month!

So, if we want out own domain name - that would not be the site.



From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Wed Oct 26 11:09:53 2005
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:09:53 +0200
Subject: OT: Phishy Paypal -- reinstalling OS helps?
References: <20051026031926.98094.qmail@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<78ddc0ad05d97b39f125b5d59ec6f91a@rpsystems.net>
	<p06230903bf853ab378e2@[192.168.1.104]>
	<e8695df82008d6a31bd09e77edba423c@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <435F9C32.942B1E85@Club-Internet.fr>



>
>
> > Doesn't it seem silly that you have to buy all those add-ons just to
> > run your machine?
>
> I don't. I have 10 Macs.
>
> But, if you are using Windows, you need all that stuff.  ;-)
>

not necessarily : I have 3 Macs and 1 PC, and on the PC I visit
only the websites I develop...

JB



From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Wed Oct 26 11:04:26 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:04:26 -0500
Subject: Tips & Techniques
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051026093019.03155b50@exchange.slg.com>

I wanted to thank everyone who chimed in on the invisible player not 
working reliably and suggesting I keep it visible and set it's location to 
-1000,-1000.

I was just wondering if there is an repository of tips and techniques such 
as not making players invisible but placing them offscreen.  It seems like 
such a list would be a great tool.

I don't know if such suggestions are in Dan's book, or if the web notes on 
the doc would be a good place.

Any thoughts?

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Oct 26 11:07:12 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:07:12 -0500
Subject: Tips & Techniques
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051026093019.03155b50@exchange.slg.com>
Message-ID: <BF8505D0.2E981%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/26/05 10:04 AM, "Peter T. Evensen" <pevensen at siboneylg.com> wrote:

> I wanted to thank everyone who chimed in on the invisible player not
> working reliably and suggesting I keep it visible and set it's location to
> -1000,-1000.
> 
> I was just wondering if there is an repository of tips and techniques such
> as not making players invisible but placing them offscreen.  It seems like
> such a list would be a great tool.

I have one started on my site at:

  http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/revolution.htm

and I have dozens of tips 'waiting in the wings' for me to post... this is
definitely one of them, though!


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Wed Oct 26 11:13:36 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:13:36 -0400
Subject: Tips & Techniques
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968325@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

If you are reading the revDoc wiki thread, you will see discussion of an
entity that would serve that purpose quite perfectly.

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Peter T.
Evensen
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 11:04 AM
To: use-revolution-lists.runrev.com
Subject: Tips & Techniques

I wanted to thank everyone who chimed in on the invisible player not 
working reliably and suggesting I keep it visible and set it's location
to 
-1000,-1000.

I was just wondering if there is an repository of tips and techniques
such 
as not making players invisible but placing them offscreen.  It seems
like 
such a list would be a great tool.

I don't know if such suggestions are in Dan's book, or if the web notes
on 
the doc would be a good place.

Any thoughts?

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 

_______________________________________________
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use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
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From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Oct 26 03:01:27 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:01:27 -0700
Subject: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine + docWiki
In-Reply-To: <3884.70.181.101.193.1130283655.squirrel@www.qldlearning.com>
References: <BF83D574.2E890%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<15114580906.20051025121933@ahsoftware.net>
	<EA32965D-3621-469E-A941-4F4CBCE4D5A1@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<2428231234.20051025160703@ahsoftware.net>
	<3884.70.181.101.193.1130283655.squirrel@www.qldlearning.com>
Message-ID: <14756695603.20051026000127@ahsoftware.net>

briany-

Tuesday, October 25, 2005, 4:40:55 PM, you wrote:

> put "AC"&cr&"BD"&"CC" into tText
> regexFilter tText,"[AB][BC]"
// tText =>> "AC"

Something like that would probably work out, but you'd lose the speed
of the filter command.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Oct 26 03:07:36 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:07:36 -0700
Subject: OpenSockets and multiple stacks...?
In-Reply-To: <435ED33C.40804@tweedly.net>
References: <1127343.1130277357481.JavaMail.johnpatten@mac.com>
	<f99b52860510251530t7068aaedma929e91968660f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<435ED33C.40804@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <12957064444.20051026000736@ahsoftware.net>

Alex-

Tuesday, October 25, 2005, 5:52:12 PM, you wrote:

> The other option would be to do it as a peer-to-peer distribution using
> local repeaters - an even more interesting protocol design problem, but
> probably even less pragmatic a choice :-)

Another way to tackle this would be to have the student stacks
"subscribe" to the instructors stack by opening socket connections.
Then the instructors stack could just push out messages to the
subscribed sockets. This would save you from having to use multicast
packets and give you a finite and known pool of sockets to deal with.
(Although the peer-to-peer approach is most definitely the more
interesting way to go about designing it).

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Oct 26 11:30:16 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:30:16 -0700
Subject: Multilingual dialogues
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.1.20051025075520.01efcc10@pop3.pon.net>
References: <OFFA038656.16483DFE-ONC125709F.003DF45D-C125709F.003E8025@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<EDF71046-E753-4234-9CFF-D883EA0033D7@openpartenrship.net>
	<6.2.1.2.1.20051020072914.01f043f0@pop3.pon.net>
	<944B2208-4BCA-4B49-9EA7-6BC723FF7804@openpartenrship.net>
	<6.2.1.2.1.20051025075520.01efcc10@pop3.pon.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20051026082432.01ef1248@pop3.pon.net>

Hi All,

>I use icons with translatable tool tips in place of label text fields.  I 
>think it gives my apps a more international feel

I forgot to mention it also eliminates concern that a label field large 
enough to display the label in one language may not be large enough to 
display the same text when translated to another language.  Likewise, that 
the width of columnar data might not match the length of the column name.

Rob Cozens

"The degree of civilization of a society can be measured by how it treats 
its prisoners."

   -- Feodor Mikhailovich Dostoevski 1821-1881 



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Wed Oct 26 11:42:06 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:42:06 -0400
Subject: OpenSockets and multiple stacks...?
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968326@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

Another solution, following along these lines...

If the classroom network has a shared drive, then you can use tcp
connections to send a message to each computer that simple says "refresh
now" or something like that.

Each client computer, upon receiving that message, would then refresh
the stack from the shared drive.

This might not be as interesting as the other approaches, but would be
very easy to do.

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Wieder
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 3:08 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: OpenSockets and multiple stacks...?

Alex-

Tuesday, October 25, 2005, 5:52:12 PM, you wrote:

> The other option would be to do it as a peer-to-peer distribution
using
> local repeaters - an even more interesting protocol design problem,
but
> probably even less pragmatic a choice :-)

Another way to tackle this would be to have the student stacks
"subscribe" to the instructors stack by opening socket connections.
Then the instructors stack could just push out messages to the
subscribed sockets. This would save you from having to use multicast
packets and give you a finite and known pool of sockets to deal with.
(Although the peer-to-peer approach is most definitely the more
interesting way to go about designing it).

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Wed Oct 26 11:59:54 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:59:54 -0400
Subject: docsWiki
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744651@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

Hi David...

Wow, you really know your wiki!  Very impressive. I am up for
participating and contributing, so if you set it up, count me in.

Take care,

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of David
Bovill
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:46 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: docsWiki

On 26 Oct 2005, at 11:57, Marielle Lange wrote:

>> Could an expert scripter create a template rev stack  that would  
>> wikify all the existing revdocs in one fell swoop and send them  
>> to  their appropriate places in the wiki/web structure (however  
>> that works for wikis, no idea here).   Just a question.  I'm sure  
>> it's not easy or someone would have done it.
>
> I wouldn't call myself an expert scripter but
> (1) I have already written an html 2 wiki translator for my own needs
> (2) I have already written a rev application that let you edit wiki  
> documents on the desktop:
> http://projects.lexicall.org/portal/wikipad.php
> (3) I have a start of a colorisation routine (to apply colorisation  
> according to the wiki syntax).

Yes -- and I have code to read and write to an online wiki (at the  
moment not with authentication for TikiWiki) - I am aiming to use ssh  
and certificates for any secure and easy to script work on this - lot  
easier than coding the session managment.

> What do you suggest for the name?  The following names are  
> available:  revdocs.co.uk, revdocs.org.uk, revdocs.ltd.uk,  
> revdocs.plc.uk, revdocs.me.uk, revdocs.com, revdocs.net,  
> revdocs.org, revdocs.info, revdocs.biz  (with xtalk, all  
> interesting ones are registered).

revdocs.org / net / com sound fine to me. Happy to register them  
today if you want on behalf of any group that want to take this forward.

> Many providers nowadays give access to Fantastico. This means that  
> any of the packages below can be installed at the click of a mouse.  
> The pros and cons of each package can be evaluated at: <http:// 
> opensourcecms.com/>  (a website that gives you the opportunity to  
> "try out" some of the best php/mysql based free and open source  
> software systems in the world). For my wiki, I use tikiwiki and I  
> am very happy with it ). Wikipedia uses media wiki (http:// 
> www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki). If you have any experience with  
> any of these and strongly recommend one for the purpose of hosting  
> software documentation, give a shout.

I have moved off TikiWiki and MediaWiki has the same problems - hard  
to integrate with Rev and not purpose built for the task. These are  
what I would suggest are the requirements for the best documentation  
wiki for our purpose:

     1) Robust well supported open source wiki
     2) Full wiki functionality revealed via web services - XmlRPC  
for instance - to allow direct integration with Rev
     3) Code and binary stack versioning linked to wiki documentation
     4) Extensible syntax highlighting
     5) Email notifications for changes
     6) Simple navigation and the ability

The basic functionality I imagine is to have a simple site with an  
index / outline of the documentation which would automatically be  
generated from the wiki. A user could use the web site to contribute  
to the wiki or access, read and write to the wiki directly from  
within Revolution. There would also be a section of code snippets and  
handlers with SVN for version management linked to the wiki  
documentation for the code. A user would be able to search and  
download these code snippets directly from within Revolution.

Additionally I have requirements to add the following:

     1) Issue tracking (tickets) and milestone support
     2) LDAP support
     3) Folksonomy tag support - ie video, regEx, recusive

The only wiki that supports all of these is Jira:

      - http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/
      - http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/JIRAEXT/JIRA 
+Subversion+plugin

It is not open source, but is free for open source projects. It is a  
robust commercial product used by MySQl and a number of large open  
source community. Very well designed.

Trac is the only open source solution that comes close:

     - http://www.edgewall.com/trac/

We have it installed here, but not with the SVN bit and syntax  
colouring working here. It also lacks XML-RPC support at the moment,  
but using https we can work around that.

Regarding hosting - I can offer this on a dedicated server if a small  
group of us would like to contribute.




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use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
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From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Wed Oct 26 12:00:54 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:00:54 -0700
Subject: OpenSockets and multiple stacks...?
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968326@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968326@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <p06230904bf8558245f4d@[192.168.1.104]>

And 'Refresh Now' could be accomplished by the Transcript 'Revert' command.


>Another solution, following along these lines...
>
>If the classroom network has a shared drive, then you can use tcp
>connections to send a message to each computer that simple says "refresh
>now" or something like that.
>

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Oct 26 12:09:24 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:09:24 +0100
Subject: OpenSockets and multiple stacks...?
In-Reply-To: <12957064444.20051026000736@ahsoftware.net>
References: <1127343.1130277357481.JavaMail.johnpatten@mac.com>	<f99b52860510251530t7068aaedma929e91968660f7@mail.gmail.com>	<435ED33C.40804@tweedly.net>
	<12957064444.20051026000736@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <435FAA34.5080104@tweedly.net>

Mark Wieder wrote:

>Alex-
>
>Tuesday, October 25, 2005, 5:52:12 PM, you wrote:
>
>  
>
>>The other option would be to do it as a peer-to-peer distribution using
>>local repeaters - an even more interesting protocol design problem, but
>>probably even less pragmatic a choice :-)
>>    
>>
>
>Another way to tackle this would be to have the student stacks
>"subscribe" to the instructors stack by opening socket connections.
>Then the instructors stack could just push out messages to the
>subscribed sockets. This would save you from having to use multicast
>packets and give you a finite and known pool of sockets to deal with.
>(Although the peer-to-peer approach is most definitely the more
>interesting way to go about designing it).
>  
>
I think that was what I was trying to describe in:

> Unless your classroom is larger than say 100 people, and assuming you 
> can make the instructor's machine be a reasonable performance machine 
> with a good connection (either wired or very good wifi), then I'd be 
> tempted to go with the easy solution of opening a TCP socket from each 
> student to the teacher, and just repeating all data. 

peer-to-peer, although interesting, introduces (in this context) a range 
of privacy / confidentiality / trust concerns that I am not sure I'd 
want to tackle. Direct TCP sockets from each one to the instructor 
eliminates the worst of those.

Jonathan's suggestion of a TCP command instructing the students to 
refresh a stack from a shared drive sounds like a good way to handle 
bulk data transfer to the students. But the CPS system mentioned in the 
original question involves a significant amount of input from students 
to instructor, so the interesting part of the system is going to be 
handling that.

I can easily envisage a library which abstracts the tasks of  (all from 
the view of the instructor)
 - sending a command to every student
 - sending command or text to individual student(s)
 - soliciting and receiving input from all (or from a subset)
 - collating and presenting the received responses (e.g. from multiple 
choice questions)
 - identifying those who have yet to respond
etc.

If I were John Patten (the original questioner), I'd probably design 
that abstraction layer carefully, to allow the option of changing how 
the communication happens later. Then code it up the simplest way (each 
student opens TCP connection to instructor), comfortable that if the 
communication scheme has to change, that will be (at least 95%) hidden 
within the abstraction layer.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net

-------------- next part --------------
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/149 - Release Date: 25/10/2005

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Oct 26 12:09:47 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:09:47 -0700
Subject: OT: Phishy Paypal -- reinstalling OS helps?
In-Reply-To: <e8695df82008d6a31bd09e77edba423c@rpsystems.net>
References: <20051026031926.98094.qmail@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<78ddc0ad05d97b39f125b5d59ec6f91a@rpsystems.net>	<p06230903bf853ab378e2@[192.168.1.104]>
	<e8695df82008d6a31bd09e77edba423c@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <435FAA4B.6090405@fourthworld.com>

Troy Rollins wrote:
> 
> On Oct 26, 2005, at 10:01 AM, Stephen Barncard wrote:
> 
>> Doesn't it seem silly that you have to buy all those add-ons just to 
>> run your machine?
> 
> 
> I don't. I have 10 Macs.
> 
> But, if you are using Windows, you need all that stuff.  ;-)

And since half of whatever's installed will need to be updated online, 
you'll need to waive chicken entrails or do whatever religious voodoo 
makes you comfortable while you download the updates, because during 
that time there are millions of zombie machines all over the world 
trying the last set of exploits on random IPs, and yours could be next.

Many Windows machines are infected within minutes of turning on their 
Internet connection.

"Fortunately", Gates recently acquired an anti-virus company, so you can 
help close some of the Swiss cheese holes Microsoft put in by paying 
Microsoft to help close them.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Wed Oct 26 12:32:20 2005
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:32:20 -0500
Subject: step in debugger?
In-Reply-To: <FF544E0C-E070-4CF5-8A97-4B20CE6AB024@conncoll.edu>
References: <FF544E0C-E070-4CF5-8A97-4B20CE6AB024@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <04E4FD03-2B6C-4D99-8F72-C6CA4DC2D736@daniels-mara.com>

Charles,

In Constellation, when you click "step" and "step into" is not  
checked, it should execute the current line and then, provided the  
line executes, take you to the next line UNLESS you are already to  
the end of the originating handler.

In past versions of Rev IDE, the "step over" would sometimes "step  
out" of the handler entirely and act as if you had clicked "run."  
This happened when stepping over a call to another handler and  
sometimes when stepping over an IF statement.

In 2.61 Rev IDE it would appear that some of this is fixed. I can get  
2.61 to step over calls to handlers at least some of the time, but I  
just tested it and found it "stepped out" when I tried to step over  
an IF statement.

I just tested Constellation on the same script with the same  
breakpoints (Constellation uses the Rev breakpoints). Because  
Constellation is paranoid, it puts "ghost breakpoints" that users  
can't see after every point at which it fears Rev's debug engine will  
try to "step out." It could be that Constellation needs to add a  
ghost somewhere. I would like to find out where (under what  
conditions) we need to add ghosts. It's nearly Halloween, after all.  
<GRIN>

SO...could you send me more info offline? Don't want to clog the list  
with Constellation tech support.

Best,

Jerry

On Oct 26, 2005, at 7:25 AM, Charles Hartman wrote:

> I've been bumbling numbly along with debugging -- and somehow it  
> just occurred to me that something's wrong here:
>
> I put a breakpoint on a line in the middle of a script, run till I  
> hit it, look at some variables, press Step . . . and the script  
> runs, not stopping till complete/crash/next breakpoint.
>
> In any other debugging environment I've seen, that's not what  
> "step" means. It means execute the currently-highlighted line and  
> stop.
>
> (This is using Constellation, but I assume it's behavior of the  
> underlying debugging engine, not the UI.)
>
> Charles Hartman
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From userev at canelasoftware.com  Wed Oct 26 12:33:50 2005
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:33:50 -0700
Subject: step in debugger?
In-Reply-To: <FF544E0C-E070-4CF5-8A97-4B20CE6AB024@conncoll.edu>
References: <FF544E0C-E070-4CF5-8A97-4B20CE6AB024@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <855D5543-44AA-4254-8F96-CB432265C2A3@canelasoftware.com>


On Oct 26, 2005, at 5:25 AM, Charles Hartman wrote:

> I've been bumbling numbly along with debugging -- and somehow it  
> just occurred to me that something's wrong here:
>
> I put a breakpoint on a line in the middle of a script, run till I  
> hit it, look at some variables, press Step . . . and the script  
> runs, not stopping till complete/crash/next breakpoint.
>
> In any other debugging environment I've seen, that's not what  
> "step" means. It means execute the currently-highlighted line and  
> stop.
>
> (This is using Constellation, but I assume it's behavior of the  
> underlying debugging engine, not the UI.)


There is a checkbox in Constellation that needs to be checked  
called:  into.  Make sure it is checked for it to work as expected.


Mark Talluto
-- 
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Oct 26 12:34:28 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:34:28 -0700
Subject: Tips & Techniques
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051026093019.03155b50@exchange.slg.com>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20051026093019.03155b50@exchange.slg.com>
Message-ID: <6712342C-C0C4-4D6B-81B8-484A1E09D3BC@danshafer.com>

PEter....

My book contains a lot of this stuff, but it's not lying around the  
ground obviously as tips, more like it's embedded in the narrative.

My site has quite a few tips, mostly culled from earlier posts on the  
list. I grab threads from here, condense them, remove the duplicate  
information, and organize them on my Rev site. I keep adding new  
ones, though I haven't found anything I could add in a couple of weeks.

The site is at http://www.revolutionpros.com


On Oct 26, 2005, at 8:04 AM, Peter T. Evensen wrote:

> I was just wondering if there is an repository of tips and  
> techniques such as not making players invisible but placing them  
> offscreen.  It seems like such a list would be a great tool.
>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Oct 26 12:58:03 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 12:58:03 -0400
Subject: OT: Phishy Paypal -- reinstalling OS helps?
In-Reply-To: <435F9C32.942B1E85@Club-Internet.fr>
References: <20051026031926.98094.qmail@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<78ddc0ad05d97b39f125b5d59ec6f91a@rpsystems.net>
	<p06230903bf853ab378e2@[192.168.1.104]>
	<e8695df82008d6a31bd09e77edba423c@rpsystems.net>
	<435F9C32.942B1E85@Club-Internet.fr>
Message-ID: <fb12719bd44cddea3dfeb45b59b7205f@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 26, 2005, at 11:09 AM, jbv wrote:

> not necessarily : I have 3 Macs and 1 PC, and on the PC I visit
> only the websites I develop...

My test PC's use pretty much the same "security" system. The downside 
is that to get there, you travel through an untold amount of routers 
and other systems. Microsoft also "conveniently" makes the system 
automatically connect to its various updaters, etc.

Without the right protection tools in place, a PC can become infected 
simply by having unrestricted access to the internet.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Oct 26 13:08:01 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:08:01 -0700
Subject: OT: Phishy Paypal -- reinstalling OS helps?
In-Reply-To: <fb12719bd44cddea3dfeb45b59b7205f@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <BF850601.239CD%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Troy Rollins  wrote:

> Without the right protection tools in place, a PC can become infected
> simply by having unrestricted access to the internet.

What's sadly amusing is that TechTV labs (G4TechTV) did a non-scientific
test of setting up three new, out of the box unprotected systems in their
offices and connecting them to the Internet: one running Linux, one Mac, and
one Windows.  The Windows system was accessed and hacked in about 4 minutes.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 26 13:18:57 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 12:18:57 -0500
Subject: step in debugger?
In-Reply-To: <8576F2B9-164C-4164-ACB8-6C92701260FE@conncoll.edu>
References: <FF544E0C-E070-4CF5-8A97-4B20CE6AB024@conncoll.edu>	<435F8FC5.7080303@tweedly.net>
	<8576F2B9-164C-4164-ACB8-6C92701260FE@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <435FBA81.6080300@hyperactivesw.com>

Charles Hartman wrote:
> Thanks. No, that twist on it I had recognized -- so if I need a  
> breakpoint-and-step at the end of a handler, I put in a "put 0 into  
> tDummy" line at the end.
> 
> In this case, the breakpoint line is in the middle of the handler, in  
> the middle of a repeat loop or a 'try' structure. (Now I can't  remember 
> which handler I was debugging yesterday when I finally  noticed this! 
> though I know it's happened before.)
> 
> Is it possible that "try" doesn't mix right with breakpoints and  
> "step"? But I know I noticed step misbehaving when there *wasn't* a  
> problem in the code, so it's not a matter of the "try" having kicked  me 
> out into the "catch". (And in that case, shouldn't "step" take me  to 
> the first line of the "catch" anyway?)
> 
> I hope this makes more sense. I *think* this was the code I was  debugging:
> 
>     repeat for each line tLine in fld "playerListFld"
>         if tLine is not empty then
>             put empty into tPlayerRecToStore
>             put word 1 of tLine into tPersonID
>             put tPersonID into tPlayerRecToStore["personID"]
>             put tPerformanceID into tPlayerRecToStore["performID"]
>             -- apparently no good way to "batch" store all these  records
>             try
>                 get libdb_addToTable(gDB, "players",  tPlayerRecToStore, 
> "personID")
>             catch errMsg
>                 put false into storeOK
>                 handleDatabaseError errMsg
>             end try
>         end if
>     end repeat
>     select text of fld "playerListFld"
>     [and so on . . .]
> 
> with the breakpoint on the "get libdb_ . . ." line.

This sounds like the problem we have discussed before, where if there is 
an error in a function or handler call and the breakpoint is set in the 
calling handler, the debugger will simply run to the end and/or exit. 
This is preferable to MetaCard's debugger behavior, where the problem 
causes infinite, recursive error messages and you have to force-quit.

I suspect there is a problem with the libdb_addToTable call. If you 
comment out that line and you see normal debugging behavior, then that's 
what is going on.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Wed Oct 26 13:19:34 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:19:34 -0400
Subject: step in debugger?
In-Reply-To: <855D5543-44AA-4254-8F96-CB432265C2A3@canelasoftware.com>
References: <FF544E0C-E070-4CF5-8A97-4B20CE6AB024@conncoll.edu>
	<855D5543-44AA-4254-8F96-CB432265C2A3@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <CA3C428A-06A5-4B76-A2EE-CC2DCAFAABBB@conncoll.edu>


On Oct 26, 2005, at 12:33 PM, Mark Talluto wrote:

>
> On Oct 26, 2005, at 5:25 AM, Charles Hartman wrote:
>
>
>> I've been bumbling numbly along with debugging -- and somehow it  
>> just occurred to me that something's wrong here:
>>
>> I put a breakpoint on a line in the middle of a script, run till I  
>> hit it, look at some variables, press Step . . . and the script  
>> runs, not stopping till complete/crash/next breakpoint.
>>
>> In any other debugging environment I've seen, that's not what  
>> "step" means. It means execute the currently-highlighted line and  
>> stop.
>>
>> (This is using Constellation, but I assume it's behavior of the  
>> underlying debugging engine, not the UI.)
>>
>
>
> There is a checkbox in Constellation that needs to be checked  
> called:  into.  Make sure it is checked for it to work as expected.


?? I don't want to step into; I want to step over. What I don't want  
to do is run.

coh



From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Oct 26 13:31:23 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 12:31:23 -0500
Subject: OT: Phishy Paypal -- reinstalling OS helps?
In-Reply-To: <BF850601.239CD%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF850601.239CD%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <435FBD6B.8020705@chipp.com>

Very interesting topic.

I've been using Windows since '95. I've got an always on internet 
connection on 2 machines connected to the internet for at least the last 
10 years. Granted, I do use the free version of AVG virus protection, 
and I am behind a firewall/router, which just makes good sense these 
days. I use the built-in popup blocker in Firebird and Thunderbirds 
automatic bayesian junk filter and I run SpyBot once every couple of 
months. Lately, I've left the automatic Windows Firewall turned on 
because that's the default, and it doesn't seem to hurt anything.

So, all my 'protection' software didn't end up costing me anything.

I really can't remember the last time a virus caused me any issue. 
(Knock on wood!) Of course, I did reformat my drive a few months ago 
with a buggy Rev call, but that's a different matter!!!

I'm sure it's about good surfing habits, and not clicking on email 
phishes, etc and using Thunderbird's excellent Junk filtering.

My Mac is rarely connected, but when it is, it uses only the 
Firebird/Thunderbird precautions. Never had any problems there either.



Scott Rossi wrote:

> What's sadly amusing is that TechTV labs (G4TechTV) did a non-scientific
> test of setting up three new, out of the box unprotected systems in their
> offices and connecting them to the Internet: one running Linux, one Mac, and
> one Windows.  The Windows system was accessed and hacked in about 4 minutes.

I'm sure every script-kiddy in the world watching that show was pinging 
that machine trying to get in.



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Oct 26 13:37:03 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:37:03 -0700
Subject: OT: Phishy Paypal -- reinstalling OS helps?
In-Reply-To: <435FBD6B.8020705@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <BF850CCF.239D7%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Chipp Walters  wrote:

>> What's sadly amusing is that TechTV labs (G4TechTV) did a non-scientific
>> test of setting up three new, out of the box unprotected systems in their
>> offices and connecting them to the Internet: one running Linux, one Mac, and
>> one Windows.  The Windows system was accessed and hacked in about 4 minutes.
> 
> I'm sure every script-kiddy in the world watching that show was pinging
> that machine trying to get in.

My understanding is they announced their experiment after the fact, so there
wasn't any notice given out.  That is why the result was notable.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca  Wed Oct 26 13:41:04 2005
From: slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca (Stewart Lynch)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:41:04 -0700
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <fc.00231a3c0210232500231a3c02102325.210239c@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>

I have just purchased the e-Book on "Using Revolution's Engine for
Internet CGI's and the following link does not work.  I am looking for the
engine that will run on my Windows system.

Any thoughts?

>From the text
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Go to http://www.runrev.com/revolution/downloads/engines and look for the
latest
version of the engines (at this writing, it?s 2.1.2). Click on that folder
link and then
choose the engine for the server on which you wish to run your CGIs.

This link works, but it is not what I need.
 For the purposes
of this chapter, which uses Mac OS X as the demonstration platform, you?d
go to
http://www.runrev.com/revolution/downloads/engines/2.1.2/cgi/


*******************************************
........
:  o/  : Stewart Lynch
: <|   : Director of Instruction, Technology and Information Services
: / >  : Richmond School District
:......:   Richmond, BC Canada
Internet: slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca
https://public.sd38.bc.ca/~slynch
tel. (604) 668-6128 fax: (604) 668-6006
*******************************************



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 26 13:54:01 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:54:01 -0700
Subject: video, frame grab, ftp question
In-Reply-To: <OF56B33371.76B0D286-ONC12570A6.0029E4D6-C12570A6.002AB7E9@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <BF8510C9.2F9DE%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Thanks for the great suggestions.
It is now up to me to dig in and evaluate what my client really wants, make
the first version, and go from there.

Appreciate the help and I will let you know what actually gets done.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 10/26/05 12:46 AM, "xavier.bury at clearstream.com"
<xavier.bury at clearstream.com> wrote:
> I also use a sat decoder - linux box in disguise with a PPC chip named the
> dreambox.

On 10/26/05 7:13 AM, "David Bovill" <david at openpartnership.net> wrote:
> I'd think of using www.videoscript.com for frame grabbing and
> applescript. 

On 10/26/05 1:26 AM, "sims" <sims at ezpzapps.com> wrote:
>I used to have a Mac 6300 with a TV tuner installed.




From slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca  Wed Oct 26 13:58:54 2005
From: slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca (Stewart Lynch)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:58:54 -0700
Subject: Runtime Engine
Message-ID: <fc.00231a3c0210266100231a3c02102661.210268f@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>

Sorry.   I forgot the subject in my previous message.

I have just purchased the e-Book on "Using Revolution's Engine for
Internet CGI's and the following link does not work.  I am looking for the
engine that will run on my Windows system.

Any thoughts?

>From the text
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Go to http://www.runrev.com/revolution/downloads/engines and look for the
latest
version of the engines (at this writing, it?s 2.1.2). Click on that folder
link and then
choose the engine for the server on which you wish to run your CGIs.

This link works, but it is not what I need.
 For the purposes
of this chapter, which uses Mac OS X as the demonstration platform, you?d
go to
http://www.runrev.com/revolution/downloads/engines/2.1.2/cgi/


*******************************************
........
:  o/  : Stewart Lynch
: <|   : Director of Instruction, Technology and Information Services
: / >  : Richmond School District
:......:   Richmond, BC Canada
Internet: slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca
https://public.sd38.bc.ca/~slynch
tel. (604) 668-6128 fax: (604) 668-6006
*******************************************




From userev at canelasoftware.com  Wed Oct 26 13:56:08 2005
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:56:08 -0700
Subject: step in debugger?
In-Reply-To: <CA3C428A-06A5-4B76-A2EE-CC2DCAFAABBB@conncoll.edu>
References: <FF544E0C-E070-4CF5-8A97-4B20CE6AB024@conncoll.edu>
	<855D5543-44AA-4254-8F96-CB432265C2A3@canelasoftware.com>
	<CA3C428A-06A5-4B76-A2EE-CC2DCAFAABBB@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <C4A097F8-52AD-4B16-9AD5-76CD41000FA7@canelasoftware.com>


On Oct 26, 2005, at 10:19 AM, Charles Hartman wrote:

>> There is a checkbox in Constellation that needs to be checked  
>> called:  into.  Make sure it is checked for it to work as expected.
>>
>
>
> ?? I don't want to step into; I want to step over. What I don't  
> want to do is run.


Sorry about that.  I guess I did not read very well.  Would putting a  
breakpoint after the line you wish to step over work for you?


Mark Talluto
-- 
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Wed Oct 26 14:12:04 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:12:04 -0700
Subject: OT: Phishy Paypal -- reinstalling OS helps?
In-Reply-To: <435FAA4B.6090405@fourthworld.com>
References: <20051026031926.98094.qmail@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<78ddc0ad05d97b39f125b5d59ec6f91a@rpsystems.net>
	<p06230903bf853ab378e2@[192.168.1.104]>
	<e8695df82008d6a31bd09e77edba423c@rpsystems.net>
	<435FAA4B.6090405@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <p06200700bf85770c6ab0@[10.0.1.2]>

>Troy Rollins wrote:
>>
>>On Oct 26, 2005, at 10:01 AM, Stephen Barncard wrote:
>>
>>>Doesn't it seem silly that you have to buy all those add-ons just 
>>>to run your machine?
>>
>>
>>I don't. I have 10 Macs.
>>
>>But, if you are using Windows, you need all that stuff.  ;-)
>
>And since half of whatever's installed will need to be updated 
>online, you'll need to waive chicken entrails or do whatever 
>religious voodoo makes you comfortable while you download the 
>updates, because during that time there are millions of zombie 
>machines all over the world trying the last set of exploits on 
>random IPs, and yours could be next.
>
>Many Windows machines are infected within minutes of turning on 
>their Internet connection.
>

Good anti-malware software, frequently updated, can clean up an 
infected machine, if it's not grossly infected. But ya gotta pay for 
it. I pay my annual subscription to Norton Internet Utilities, just 
so I can use my XP machine on the internet occasionally.


Tim


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 26 14:32:22 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:32:22 -0500
Subject: Runtime Engine
In-Reply-To: <fc.00231a3c0210266100231a3c02102661.210268f@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
References: <fc.00231a3c0210266100231a3c02102661.210268f@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <435FCBB6.4020807@hyperactivesw.com>

Stewart Lynch wrote:
> Sorry.   I forgot the subject in my previous message.
> 
> I have just purchased the e-Book on "Using Revolution's Engine for
> Internet CGI's and the following link does not work.  I am looking for the
> engine that will run on my Windows system.
> 
> Any thoughts?

The Windows engine does not require any special CGI adaptation. Just put 
a copy of the Revolution executable from your regular distribution into 
your CGI folder. The only OS that needs a specially-compiled executable 
is OS X, which requires the Darwin CGI engine.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Oct 26 14:39:12 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:39:12 -0700
Subject: Runtime Engine
In-Reply-To: <fc.00231a3c0210266100231a3c02102661.210268f@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
References: <fc.00231a3c0210266100231a3c02102661.210268f@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <355630DF-646B-4178-981A-F04B67D34F2F@danshafer.com>

I see they've moved those on me. Sorry. I'll update the SmartEBook  
later today.

Meanwhile, go to:

http://downloads.runrev.com


On Oct 26, 2005, at 10:58 AM, Stewart Lynch wrote:

> Sorry.   I forgot the subject in my previous message.
>
> I have just purchased the e-Book on "Using Revolution's Engine for
> Internet CGI's and the following link does not work.  I am looking  
> for the
> engine that will run on my Windows system.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
>
>> From the text
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ----
>
> Go to http://www.runrev.com/revolution/downloads/engines and look  
> for the
> latest
> version of the engines (at this writing, it?s 2.1.2). Click on that  
> folder
> link and then
> choose the engine for the server on which you wish to run your CGIs.
>
> This link works, but it is not what I need.
>  For the purposes
> of this chapter, which uses Mac OS X as the demonstration platform,  
> you?d
> go to
> http://www.runrev.com/revolution/downloads/engines/2.1.2/cgi/
>
>
> *******************************************
> ........
> :  o/  : Stewart Lynch
> : <|   : Director of Instruction, Technology and Information Services
> : / >  : Richmond School District
> :......:   Richmond, BC Canada
> Internet: slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca
> https://public.sd38.bc.ca/~slynch
> tel. (604) 668-6128 fax: (604) 668-6006
> *******************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca  Wed Oct 26 14:53:13 2005
From: slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca (Stewart Lynch)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:53:13 -0700
Subject: Runtime Engine
In-Reply-To: <435FCBB6.4020807@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <fc.00231a3c0210266100231a3c02102661.210268f@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
	<,> <435FCBB6.4020807@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <fc.00231a3c02102ec000231a3c02102661.2102f33@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>

jacque at hyperactivesw.com on October 26, 2005 at 11:32 AM -0800 wrote:
>The Windows engine does not require any special CGI adaptation. Just put 
>a copy of the Revolution executable from your regular distribution into 
>your CGI folder. The only OS that needs a specially-compiled executable 
>is OS X, which requires the Darwin CGI engine.

I am a bit confused.  If I want to create a CGI that I can distribute to
others to use who have not purchased a full version of Revolution, can I
do this?
If so, what version of the rev engine would I ship?



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Wed Oct 26 15:04:01 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:04:01 -0400
Subject: step in debugger?
In-Reply-To: <435FBA81.6080300@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <FF544E0C-E070-4CF5-8A97-4B20CE6AB024@conncoll.edu>	<435F8FC5.7080303@tweedly.net>
	<8576F2B9-164C-4164-ACB8-6C92701260FE@conncoll.edu>
	<435FBA81.6080300@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <A0DE9A3A-F45C-4969-BBA7-CFC6D34BE896@conncoll.edu>

(my prev snipped out to save space)

On Oct 26, 2005, at 1:18 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> This sounds like the problem we have discussed before, where if  
> there is an error in a function or handler call and the breakpoint  
> is set in the calling handler, the debugger will simply run to the  
> end and/or exit. This is preferable to MetaCard's debugger  
> behavior, where the problem causes infinite, recursive error  
> messages and you have to force-quit.
>
> I suspect there is a problem with the libdb_addToTable call. If you  
> comment out that line and you see normal debugging behavior, then  
> that's what is going on.

Ah, but that's the thing -- there *wasn't* a problem. (I know because  
everything comes out right in later handlers.)

When I get a chance to try this again, I'll try to isolate the  
behavior better.

coh



From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Oct 26 15:06:51 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:06:51 +0100
Subject: OT: Phishy Paypal -- reinstalling OS helps?
In-Reply-To: <p06200700bf85770c6ab0@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <20051026031926.98094.qmail@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<78ddc0ad05d97b39f125b5d59ec6f91a@rpsystems.net>	<p06230903bf853ab378e2@[192.168.1.104]>	<e8695df82008d6a31bd09e77edba423c@rpsystems.net>	<435FAA4B.6090405@fourthworld.com>
	<p06200700bf85770c6ab0@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <435FD3CB.2010203@tweedly.net>

Timothy Miller wrote:

> Good anti-malware software, frequently updated, can clean up an 
> infected machine, if it's not grossly infected. But ya gotta pay for it. 

Why do you say that ? 

> I pay my annual subscription to Norton Internet Utilities, just so I 
> can use my XP machine on the internet occasionally.
>
I had Norton - and gave up using it part-way through my subscription 
year, in favour of AVG ( + ZoneAlarm + ...)

AVG updates far more quickly and reliably, Norton seemed to have some 
problems on anything less than perfect Internet connections.

I've never seen any independent reports suggesting that AVG was any less 
effective, or updated any less promptly, than the commercial products.


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/149 - Release Date: 25/10/2005



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Wed Oct 26 15:06:59 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:06:59 -0400
Subject: step in debugger?
In-Reply-To: <C4A097F8-52AD-4B16-9AD5-76CD41000FA7@canelasoftware.com>
References: <FF544E0C-E070-4CF5-8A97-4B20CE6AB024@conncoll.edu>
	<855D5543-44AA-4254-8F96-CB432265C2A3@canelasoftware.com>
	<CA3C428A-06A5-4B76-A2EE-CC2DCAFAABBB@conncoll.edu>
	<C4A097F8-52AD-4B16-9AD5-76CD41000FA7@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <26166DF3-FC70-4C5C-9F7C-FC38FAE315F2@conncoll.edu>


On Oct 26, 2005, at 1:56 PM, Mark Talluto wrote:

>
> On Oct 26, 2005, at 10:19 AM, Charles Hartman wrote:
>
>
>>> There is a checkbox in Constellation that needs to be checked  
>>> called:  into.  Make sure it is checked for it to work as expected.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ?? I don't want to step into; I want to step over. What I don't  
>> want to do is run.
>>
>
>
> Sorry about that.  I guess I did not read very well.  Would putting  
> a breakpoint after the line you wish to step over work for you?

Yes, that does work. The failure of "step" to behave right isn't an  
unsolvable dilemma. It's just that "step" exists for the sake of  
saving that labor of setting _two_ (or more) breakpoints every time  
you want to watch closely what happens in a short sequence of lines.

Charles Hartman



From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Oct 26 15:15:01 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:15:01 -0400
Subject: OT: Phishy Paypal -- reinstalling OS helps?
In-Reply-To: <435FD3CB.2010203@tweedly.net>
References: <20051026031926.98094.qmail@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<78ddc0ad05d97b39f125b5d59ec6f91a@rpsystems.net>	<p06230903bf853ab378e2@[192.168.1.104]>	<e8695df82008d6a31bd09e77edba423c@rpsystems.net>	<435FAA4B.6090405@fourthworld.com>
	<p06200700bf85770c6ab0@[10.0.1.2]> <435FD3CB.2010203@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <daffd2ce761387986833bf45cb143d4c@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 26, 2005, at 3:06 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> AVG updates far more quickly and reliably, Norton seemed to have some 
> problems on anything less than perfect Internet connections.

I'm using AVG too, and it seems quite good. By default, it seems to 
"run" an awful lot though ? pretty much whenever the machine is idle at 
all. It also downloads updates almost daily, and fairly often want to 
reboot the machine.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Oct 26 15:17:30 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 12:17:30 -0700
Subject: Runtime Engine
In-Reply-To: <fc.00231a3c02102ec000231a3c02102661.2102f33@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
References: <fc.00231a3c0210266100231a3c02102661.210268f@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
	<, > <435FCBB6.4020807@hyperactivesw.com>
	<fc.00231a3c02102ec000231a3c02102661.2102f33@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <B3C8246A-7BBE-49B0-90D2-43F9185754BA@danshafer.com>

Maybe I'm the one who's confused here.

If you want to sell or give away a CGI, then I *think* every server  
on which the CGI would run would require a RunRev license. But if you  
want to just give people *access* to a CGI running on your server (or  
one you rent space on), then you only need one copy of the engine  
running on that server. The CGI is accessed via Web browsers going to  
that server.

Or did you have something else entirely in mind?

On Oct 26, 2005, at 11:53 AM, Stewart Lynch wrote:

> I am a bit confused.  If I want to create a CGI that I can  
> distribute to
> others to use who have not purchased a full version of Revolution,  
> can I
> do this?
> If so, what version of the rev engine would I ship?
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca  Wed Oct 26 15:22:44 2005
From: slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca (Stewart Lynch)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 12:22:44 -0700
Subject: Runtime Engine
In-Reply-To: <B3C8246A-7BBE-49B0-90D2-43F9185754BA@danshafer.com>
References: <B3C8246A-7BBE-49B0-90D2-43F9185754BA@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <fc.00231a3c0210331f00231a3c02102661.2103353@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>

How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com> on Wednesday,
October 26, 2005 at 12:17 PM -0800 wrote:
>Maybe I'm the one who's confused here.
>
>If you want to sell or give away a CGI, then I *think* every server  
>on which the CGI would run would require a RunRev license. But if you  
>want to just give people *access* to a CGI running on your server (or  
>one you rent space on), then you only need one copy of the engine  
>running on that server. The CGI is accessed via Web browsers going to  
>that server.
>
>Or did you have something else entirely in mind?
I am interested in building a CGI that I can bundle with another Web
solution that I produce that runs on FirstClass.  FirstClass supports CGIs
so I would like to offer my cgi solution with my web solution.
I was hoping that I could do this in revolution and perhaps use a royalty
free Revolution runtime engine.  Is this not possible?

*******************************************
........
:  o/  : Stewart Lynch
: <|   : Director of Instruction, Technology and Information Services
: / >  : Richmond School District
:......:   Richmond, BC Canada
Internet: slynch at richmond.sd38.bc.ca
https://public.sd38.bc.ca/~slynch
tel. (604) 668-6128 fax: (604) 668-6006
*******************************************



From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Oct 26 15:23:40 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:23:40 +0200
Subject: Runtime Engine
In-Reply-To: <B3C8246A-7BBE-49B0-90D2-43F9185754BA@danshafer.com>
References: <fc.00231a3c0210266100231a3c02102661.210268f@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
	<, > <435FCBB6.4020807@hyperactivesw.com>
	<fc.00231a3c02102ec000231a3c02102661.2102f33@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
	<B3C8246A-7BBE-49B0-90D2-43F9185754BA@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <0BE2BA93-D880-45ED-BA53-1173ABC68401@major-k.de>

Hi Dan,

> Maybe I'm the one who's confused here.
>
> If you want to sell or give away a CGI, then I *think* every server  
> on which the CGI would run would require a RunRev license.

i remember that in the old Metacard days, the use of the engine as a  
CGI engine
(NO gui) was completely free, read no license fee of any kind.

Maybe this has changed?

> But if you want to just give people *access* to a CGI running on  
> your server (or one you rent space on), then you only need one copy  
> of the engine running on that server. The CGI is accessed via Web  
> browsers going to that server.
>
> Or did you have something else entirely in mind?

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Oct 26 15:24:21 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:24:21 -0400
Subject: Runtime Engine
In-Reply-To: <B3C8246A-7BBE-49B0-90D2-43F9185754BA@danshafer.com>
References: <fc.00231a3c0210266100231a3c02102661.210268f@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
	<, > <435FCBB6.4020807@hyperactivesw.com>
	<fc.00231a3c02102ec000231a3c02102661.2102f33@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
	<B3C8246A-7BBE-49B0-90D2-43F9185754BA@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <d5d02331f4c19ddcd03c6dfef92c0366@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 26, 2005, at 3:17 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> If you want to sell or give away a CGI, then I *think* every server on 
> which the CGI would run would require a RunRev license.

I thought I had read that the CGI version of the engine was "free."
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From mlange at lexicall.org  Wed Oct 26 15:36:26 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:36:26 +0100
Subject: docsWiki
In-Reply-To: <20051026153959.D19E78251EB@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051026153959.D19E78251EB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B0364566-9A92-46D4-85CC-B5EA2D1AAC6F@lexicall.org>

David,

Many thanks for that long reply. I have added to the file where I  
keep all suggestions (still on my computer... will move it to a wiki  
page this evening).


> Yes -- and I have code to read and write to an online wiki (at the  
> moment not with authentication for TikiWiki) - I am aiming to use  
> ssh and certificates for any secure and easy to script work on this  
> - lot easier than coding the session managment.
>

Great!


> revdocs.org / net / com sound fine to me. Happy to register them  
> today if you want on behalf of any group that want to take this  
> forward.
>

We have one vote for revdocs.org (probably yours).



> I have moved off TikiWiki and MediaWiki has the same problems -  
> hard to integrate with Rev and not purpose built for the task.
>

Yes, I have the same opinion. It is possible to hack tikiwiki but  
that's  probably at least a week work. Then we will need to hack it  
for something else, etc., etc. Not the best fit.


> The only wiki that supports all of these is Jira:
>
>      - http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/
>      - http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/JIRAEXT/JIRA 
> +Subversion+plugin
>
> It is not open source, but is free for open source projects. It is  
> a robust commercial product used by MySQl and a number of large  
> open source community. Very well designed.
>
> Trac is the only open source solution that comes close:
>
>     - http://www.edgewall.com/trac/
>
> We have it installed here, but not with the SVN bit and syntax  
> colouring working here. It also lacks XML-RPC support at the  
> moment, but using https we can work around that.
>
> Regarding hosting - I can offer this on a dedicated server if a  
> small group of us would like to contribute.
>

I had a colorization module in Drupal, so I started checking out  
Drupal with the feature listed (before I came across Jira). Drupal is  
free (GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE -- no restriction I could find  
inhttp://drupal.org/LICENSE.txt).

Drupal is an open-source platform and content management system for  
building dynamic web sites offering a broad range of features and  
services including user administration, publishing workflow,  
discussion capabilities, news aggregation, metadata functionalities  
using controlled vocabularies and XML publishing for content sharing  
purposes. Equipped with a powerful blend of features and  
configurability, Drupal can support a diverse range of web projects  
ranging from personal weblogs to large community-driven sites.

Anybody on this list familiar with Jira and Drupal and can offer some  
advice?


> These are what I would suggest are the requirements for the best  
> documentation wiki for our purpose:
>     1) Robust well supported open source wiki
>

What I read at <http://blog.taragana.com/index.php/archive/leading- 
open-source-cms-mambo-versus-drupal-a-comprehensive-comparison/>
Drupal is  cleanly designed with extensibility in mind and more  
flexible. Drupal provides a standard high-level API for developing  
extensions and making it easier to extend Drupal in a standard way  
with uniform look-and-feel. Drupal provides better support for  
internationalization through i18n module. Drupal has better support  
of Search-Engine-Friendly URLs in core and through modules. Drupal  
supports multiple sites with a single installation with fine-grained  
access control and ability to selectively share configuration  
settings and database tables. Drupal comes with better templating  
system.



>     2) Full wiki functionality revealed via web services - XmlRPC  
> for instance - to allow direct integration with Rev
>

Apparently, it meets the criterion for web service:

<http://an9.org/devdev/making_a_cool_web_service?sxip- 
homesite=&checked=1>

Honestly, for 90% of sites, there is no reason that a sub-five-minute  
Drupal install won?t accomplish almost all of the work involved in  
starting a website immediately, and it has the nicest (and one of the  
best documented) plugin systems I have ever worked with. You aren?t  
going to come up with something better than these frameworks and  
still have time for what you were really trying to do, a cool web  
service.

<http://www.flickr.com/photos/thox/24237747/>    ... Drupal XUL with  
XMLRPC. Anticipating the future, xul compatibility is something very  
good to have.


>     3) Code and binary stack versioning linked to wiki documentation
>

Drupal features content versioning. It also supports taxonomy  
support  (we will need this too, this will become more and more  
important over the next 3 years).

>     4) Extensible syntax highlighting
>

They have a very powerful code colorization module (<http:// 
drupal.org/node/21368>). Then it is as simple as writing <code  
type="language">...</code> in your page.


>     5) Email notifications for changes
>     6) Simple navigation
>

This seems to be the case: http://drupal.org/. The look is a lot more  
modern than tikiwiki.


> The basic functionality I imagine is to have a simple site with an  
> index / outline of the documentation which would automatically be  
> generated from the wiki. A user could use the web site to  
> contribute to the wiki or access, read and write to the wiki  
> directly from within Revolution.
>

Exactly, yes.


> There would also be a section of code snippets and handlers with  
> SVN for version management linked to the wiki documentation for the  
> code. A user would be able to search and download these code  
> snippets directly from within Revolution.
>

Exactly, yes.


> Additionally I have requirements to add the following:
>
>     1) Issue tracking (tickets) and milestone support
>

This means there is a main manager and a support service. Is this  
realistic? If you propose support, you give users a reason to expect  
it. Do we really want that (i.e., to end up doing revolution's job)?  
Isn't open comments more appropriate?


>     2) LDAP support
>

Authentication only LDAP module <http://drupal.org/node/27640>


>     3) Folksonomy tag support - ie video, regEx, recusive
>

Making a Drupal Folksonomy Tag Cloud <http:// 
www.echochamberproject.com/node/235>


Best is probably to install both and put them to the test for a month  
and then check up what are their pros and cons (often you discover  
annoyances only by experience).

Shall we move this to a small group discussion? (somewhere on a wiki,  
with occasional reports on this list).

Marielle

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org





From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Wed Oct 26 16:17:38 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:17:38 +0100
Subject: Runtime Engine
In-Reply-To: <435FCBB6.4020807@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <fc.00231a3c0210266100231a3c02102661.210268f@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
	<435FCBB6.4020807@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <63CC6EA5-9760-4DCB-9724-DD449CFB109D@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 26 Oct 2005, at 19:32, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Stewart Lynch wrote:
>
>> Sorry.   I forgot the subject in my previous message.
>> I have just purchased the e-Book on "Using Revolution's Engine for
>> Internet CGI's and the following link does not work.  I am looking  
>> for the
>> engine that will run on my Windows system.
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>
> The Windows engine does not require any special CGI adaptation.  
> Just put a copy of the Revolution executable from your regular  
> distribution into your CGI folder. The only OS that needs a  
> specially-compiled executable is OS X, which requires the Darwin  
> CGI engine.

Has this changed, Jacque? There used to be a separate cgi engine for  
Windows named "cmc.exe" (from the Metacard era). I have a copy (from  
years ago), but right now I can't say for sure what version it is.

Cheers
Dave


From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Oct 26 16:27:40 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:27:40 -0700
Subject: Runtime Engine
In-Reply-To: <d5d02331f4c19ddcd03c6dfef92c0366@rpsystems.net>
References: <fc.00231a3c0210266100231a3c02102661.210268f@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
	<, > <435FCBB6.4020807@hyperactivesw.com>
	<fc.00231a3c02102ec000231a3c02102661.2102f33@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
	<B3C8246A-7BBE-49B0-90D2-43F9185754BA@danshafer.com>
	<d5d02331f4c19ddcd03c6dfef92c0366@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <DF3C789E-B088-4BBC-9395-F984C3D58B2E@danshafer.com>

That's why I emphasized that I *think* that's the case. I don't know.  
Hopefully someone from RunRev will chime in here with an official  
pricing statement.

Dan

On Oct 26, 2005, at 12:24 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Oct 26, 2005, at 3:17 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>
>> If you want to sell or give away a CGI, then I *think* every  
>> server on which the CGI would run would require a RunRev license.
>>
>
> I thought I had read that the CGI version of the engine was "free."
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Oct 26 16:38:45 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:38:45 -0700
Subject: Runtime Engine
In-Reply-To: <fc.00231a3c0210331f00231a3c02102661.2103353@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
References: <B3C8246A-7BBE-49B0-90D2-43F9185754BA@danshafer.com>
	<fc.00231a3c0210331f00231a3c02102661.2103353@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <C186488F-A4E3-4620-A697-7FEE71474915@danshafer.com>

Stewart.....

In that case, you'll just want to check licensing terms with RunRev  
to ensure that you won't incur any additional charges for the CGI  
engine. My recollection is that they do charge for such use but I'm  
not a spokesman for the company. And in any case, I know they are  
open to creative licensing deals as well, so perhaps even if their  
normal policy would result in a per-sale cost to you, something else  
can be worked out.


On Oct 26, 2005, at 12:22 PM, Stewart Lynch wrote:

> I am interested in building a CGI that I can bundle with another Web
> solution that I produce that runs on FirstClass.  FirstClass  
> supports CGIs
> so I would like to offer my cgi solution with my web solution.
> I was hoping that I could do this in revolution and perhaps use a  
> royalty
> free Revolution runtime engine.  Is this not possible?
>



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 26 16:46:05 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:46:05 -0500
Subject: Runtime Engine
In-Reply-To: <63CC6EA5-9760-4DCB-9724-DD449CFB109D@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <fc.00231a3c0210266100231a3c02102661.210268f@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
	<435FCBB6.4020807@hyperactivesw.com>
	<63CC6EA5-9760-4DCB-9724-DD449CFB109D@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <435FEB0D.6090305@hyperactivesw.com>

Dave Cragg wrote:
 >
 > On 26 Oct 2005, at 19:32, J. Landman Gay wrote:
 >
 >> Stewart Lynch wrote:
 >>
 >>> Sorry.   I forgot the subject in my previous message.
 >>> I have just purchased the e-Book on "Using Revolution's Engine for
 >>> Internet CGI's and the following link does not work.  I am looking
 >>> for the
 >>> engine that will run on my Windows system.
 >>> Any thoughts?
 >>>
 >>
 >> The Windows engine does not require any special CGI adaptation.  Just
 >> put a copy of the Revolution executable from your regular
 >> distribution into your CGI folder. The only OS that needs a
 >> specially-compiled executable is OS X, which requires the Darwin  CGI
 >> engine.
 >
 >
 > Has this changed, Jacque? There used to be a separate cgi engine for
 > Windows named "cmc.exe" (from the Metacard era). I have a copy (from
 > years ago), but right now I can't say for sure what version it is.

Hm. Good question. I don't recall "cmc.exe". I was always under the 
impression that the shipping executable would work, and I seem to 
remember people using it that way. Runtime hasn't shipped a separate CGI 
engine for anything but Darwin. Has old age struck me?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 26 16:47:10 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:47:10 -0500
Subject: Runtime Engine
In-Reply-To: <fc.00231a3c0210331f00231a3c02102661.2103353@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
References: <B3C8246A-7BBE-49B0-90D2-43F9185754BA@danshafer.com>
	<fc.00231a3c0210331f00231a3c02102661.2103353@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <435FEB4E.2030704@hyperactivesw.com>

Stewart Lynch wrote:

> I am interested in building a CGI that I can bundle with another Web
> solution that I produce that runs on FirstClass.  FirstClass supports CGIs
> so I would like to offer my cgi solution with my web solution.
> I was hoping that I could do this in revolution and perhaps use a royalty
> free Revolution runtime engine.  Is this not possible?

I think it would be a good idea to check with support on this. I don't 
know what the current policy is.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Oct 26 16:50:52 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:50:52 -0700
Subject: Runtime Engine
In-Reply-To: <435FEB4E.2030704@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <B3C8246A-7BBE-49B0-90D2-43F9185754BA@danshafer.com>	<fc.00231a3c0210331f00231a3c02102661.2103353@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
	<435FEB4E.2030704@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <435FEC2C.7040700@fourthworld.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:
> Stewart Lynch wrote:
> 
>> I am interested in building a CGI that I can bundle with another Web
>> solution that I produce that runs on FirstClass.  FirstClass supports 
>> CGIs
>> so I would like to offer my cgi solution with my web solution.
>> I was hoping that I could do this in revolution and perhaps use a royalty
>> free Revolution runtime engine.  Is this not possible?
> 
> 
> I think it would be a good idea to check with support on this. I don't 
> know what the current policy is.

Last I heard the engine remained free for CGI work to help evangelize 
the language in a context not likely to affect sales of the GUI product.

In the worst-case scenario if that turns out to no longer be the case, 
one could use a standalone as a CGI, no?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From jhurley at infostations.com  Wed Oct 26 16:52:59 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:52:59 -0700
Subject: Display problems remain in 2.6.1 using OS X
In-Reply-To: <20051026170003.8CF4B825235@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051026170003.8CF4B825235@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230905bf858e8ff118@[69.19.167.41]>

Just got around to downloading 2.6.1.

Haven't had a chance yet to explore all the good bug fixes yet. But, 
the first thing I did was to check the screen refresh problem in OS 
X. That remains a problem. The screen does not refresh after many 
commands that affect the screen, such as "set the loc of...." and 
writing to the screen. In the example:

on mouseUp
   put "" into field "display"
   put "Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their 
country." into tText
   repeat with i = 1 to the number of chars in tText
     put char i of tText after field "display"
     unlock screen
   end repeat
end mouseUp

The line "unlock screen" (or wait 0 milisec) is necessary in OS X to 
get a smooth banner display.

Jim

From mlange at lexicall.org  Wed Oct 26 17:07:30 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:07:30 +0100
Subject: revdocs
Message-ID: <38509D9A-B891-48FA-9ED5-2A6BD32E847B@lexicall.org>

Hi Jonathan,

> That particular site does indeed allow both style sheet control and an
> easy download of all the page material in one shot.

Jonathan... I believe this is more complex than this. See the  
excellent points made by David.

What is that this wiki can bring as benefits that this mailing list  
doesn't? Easy answer:  searching facilities. Relevant contexts (the  
very very precious "See also" section). But this is already provided  
for in the revdoc that comes in your rev package.

> I really believe that getting people to use it would not be too  
> difficult. It would become a natural process - one that extends  
> from discussions on this list.

Not sure this is true. What is the major hurdle for the success of  
this wiki? Emails arrive in the mailbox. To answer them, you click  
reply, type a bit of text, and you are done.

What would be the motivation to open a browser window, connect to the  
wiki, login, add a bit of text, go back to the email and reply "your  
answer is now on the revdocs website".

The very honest answer I can give for myself: no motivation **at  
all**. I may contribute to your wiki for a week or two (not even sure  
about that), but after that, I will just stop doing it. And I am a  
person keen to help... so what to expect from the ones who are even  
less than me?!

> So, if we want out own domain name - that would not be the site.

I really don't want to dampen your enthusiasm. On the contrary, I am  
very much interested in your proposal to help. But hosting is not how  
you can help best. Your wiki, my wiki, another wiki, this is not  
important. With admin access, you can help take care of this wherever  
it is, so can I, so can Tim and Dennis (great... in terms of numbers,  
this is should be enough to get it off the ground). A domain name can  
be moved from one server to another. With php, mysql, metadata, the  
content of a wiki can easily be moved from one server to another.

As long as we don't have an adequate infrastructure, putting doc on  
the wiki is very dangerous because this defacto gets you create a  
service... this defacto gives you the full responsibility for the  
good running, present and future of this service. Not that I suggest  
you made an error, Jonathan. That was great... thanks for taking the  
time... that got us start moving. But take care... Only go for this  
kind of initiative when the following scenario is ok for you (time,  
energy, moral): nobody helps. Do such things ready to accept any help  
that comes... but don't create something counting on help because it  
seems to you so obvious that other should join and help.... when  
nobody has taken any firm engagement to help.

Sure, I have snippets and many useful resources on my wiki... But I  
haven't created this as a service for the community. I have created  
something that is intended to be useful for the community... but also  
serving some other purposes of mine. I created this to learn, to test  
ideas, to create a demand, to experiment, to organize my own notes  
and keep them at hand wherever I am, to see what was possible, what  
was needed to work well, to evaluate the interest (number of hits on  
the page), to analyse contexts in which people contribute. Because of  
this, I expect nothing in return of the time and money I put in this.  
To have somebody contribute in the wiki or send me a nice email makes  
my day... they are superb bonus... but days without any contribution  
don't have any adverse effect on my moral.

But it's not the same at all for the revdoc wiki project. If it gets  
created it must be to serve as service for the community and not ego  
boosting (I speak for me there) or some other personal purpose .  
There shouldn't be ***any*** benefit for the persons who run this  
other than the benefits that all other users take from this  
(increased productivity). Because of this, we really need to set up a  
structure in which the costs for the individuals who give a hand are  
minimized. Medium (up to 1h a day) to high (2-3 hours a day)  
maintenance costs (in terms of time and difficulty) would only be  
acceptable if we had somebody *paid* to take care of the maintenance  
(actually, the main management team at wikipedia is paid, they get a  
lot of sponsors money). This won't happen. Revolution is a very small  
company which focuses its limited resources on what's more important:  
providing a great software. This community is too small to have  
donations pay for somebody doing maintenance.

We haven't that yet... as long as we don't have it, I would  
discourage any person to put the doc on an editable wiki unless they  
are prepared to do all the job of contribution and maintenance job  
themselves in the event nobody gets to help. I am not ready to do  
that (do all the job without any help) . What I am ready to do is  
help set up a structure which maximizes the chances to have others  
help. To  maximize the chances of having members actively contribute,  
we have to minimize the costs of contributing. So, we need a way to  
fetch information directly from the mailing list content. As David  
mentioned, we also need a way for the information to be directly  
updated from within the environment in which you do programming:  
revolution.

I personally believe that we should avoid to put too much effort in  
the actual commenting of code before we have identified a solution  
where maintenance is as automatized, as reliable and as system  
independent (doc viewed within revolution, within the scripter  
scrapbook, on the web) as possible. I really believe we should put  
some effort on helping to set up such a solution.

Marielle

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From david at openpartnership.net  Wed Oct 26 17:19:35 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:19:35 +0200
Subject: docsWiki
In-Reply-To: <B0364566-9A92-46D4-85CC-B5EA2D1AAC6F@lexicall.org>
References: <20051026153959.D19E78251EB@mail.runrev.com>
	<B0364566-9A92-46D4-85CC-B5EA2D1AAC6F@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <944FBA07-86BB-43A3-97E8-EC434A4EBEE8@openpartnership.net>


On 26 Oct 2005, at 21:36, Marielle Lange wrote:

> Drupal is  cleanly designed with extensibility in mind and more  
> flexible. Drupal provides a standard high-level API for developing  
> extensions and making it easier to extend Drupal in a standard way  
> with uniform look-and-feel. Drupal provides better support for  
> internationalization through i18n module. Drupal has better support  
> of Search-Engine-Friendly URLs in core and through modules. Drupal  
> supports multiple sites with a single installation with fine- 
> grained access control and ability to selectively share  
> configuration settings and database tables. Drupal comes with  
> better templating system.

Sure Drupal is nice. There are a couple of projects I have been  
partially involved with that use Drupal - no real complaints.
> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/thox/24237747/>    ... Drupal XUL  
> with XMLRPC. Anticipating the future, xul compatibility is  
> something very good to have.

Yes - not exactly live yet :) Also Drupal XMLRPC is a php file! -  
drupal is written in python by the way. This is quite telling:

     - http://trac.civicspacelabs.com/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/file/trunk/ 
modules/drupal.module

  The XMLRPC library and Drupal being documented and maintained using  
Trac! Basically Drupal is great for a kitchen sink community site,  
but it is not a dedicated developer resource tool. We don't need all  
the Drupal stuff - we need effective collaborative software  
development tools integrated into Rev.

>>     3) Code and binary stack versioning linked to wiki documentation
>
> Drupal features content versioning. It also supports taxonomy  
> support  (we will need this too, this will become more and more  
> important over the next 3 years).

Content versioning is not code versioning - most wiki's don't store  
the full history, can loose historical data, and do not support  
anything other than recent versions - no support for binary  
versioning (ie stacks) and no branching etc


>> Additionally I have requirements to add the following:
>>
>>     1) Issue tracking (tickets) and milestone support
>
> This means there is a main manager and a support service. Is this  
> realistic? If you propose support, you give users a reason to  
> expect it. Do we really want that (i.e., to end up doing  
> revolution's job)? Isn't open comments more appropriate?

No. Just an organised way for people to report problems and plan  
their sub-projects - milestones etc. i can see people using it to  
develop components they wish to release and possibly sell - a few  
people would use this if it helps them cooperate with other  
developers to achieve their goal - and is easier to use than setting  
up something themselves.

> Best is probably to install both and put them to the test for a  
> month and then check up what are their pros and cons (often you  
> discover annoyances only by experience).
>
> Shall we move this to a small group discussion? (somewhere on a  
> wiki, with occasional reports on this list)

I would say not until there are more than 2 and a half of us :) Also  
my guess is the discussion of wiki / web site integration with Rev is  
not entirely off interest to the list - even if they don't fancy  
actively supporting something that involves work yet :) Any request  
we move the discussion elsewhere?


From david at openpartnership.net  Wed Oct 26 17:27:38 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:27:38 +0200
Subject: revdocs
In-Reply-To: <38509D9A-B891-48FA-9ED5-2A6BD32E847B@lexicall.org>
References: <38509D9A-B891-48FA-9ED5-2A6BD32E847B@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <C208FD45-84FC-40DF-BAEA-8DCDD8D64C44@openpartnership.net>

On 26 Oct 2005, at 23:07, Marielle Lange wrote:

> What is that this wiki can bring as benefits that this mailing list  
> doesn't? Easy answer:  searching facilities. Relevant contexts (the  
> very very precious "See also" section). But this is already  
> provided for in the revdoc that comes in your rev package.
>
>> I really believe that getting people to use it would not be too  
>> difficult. It would become a natural process - one that extends  
>> from discussions on this list.
>>
>
> Not sure this is true. What is the major hurdle for the success of  
> this wiki? Emails arrive in the mailbox. To answer them, you click  
> reply, type a bit of text, and you are done.
>
> What would be the motivation to open a browser window, connect to  
> the wiki, login, add a bit of text, go back to the email and reply  
> "your answer is now on the revdocs website".

Email integration with wiki's is very possible. Even TikiWiki has the  
ability to allow emails to be added to the comment section of wiki  
pages. Also intersting is the ability to attach an email address to a  
wiki page so that and changes are mailed to that address. Now if the  
email address were this list (with abit of hacking - ie setting the  
sender address to someone who is registered to the list), changes by  
registered person would be emailed to the list. These changes could  
of course be posted to the wiki from within Rev.

Jira is far more advanced in terms of email integration - Trac also  
is quite good and SVN commits can be emailed to a list.


From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Oct 26 17:36:09 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:36:09 -0700
Subject: Runtime Engine
In-Reply-To: <435FEC2C.7040700@fourthworld.com>
References: <B3C8246A-7BBE-49B0-90D2-43F9185754BA@danshafer.com>	<fc.00231a3c0210331f00231a3c02102661.2103353@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>
	<435FEB4E.2030704@hyperactivesw.com>
	<435FEC2C.7040700@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <419651B6-0C94-49F1-9ABF-FC267B5500DC@danshafer.com>

Intriguing thought, Richard. Hadn't considered that idea before.  
Should work, of course.

Dan

On Oct 26, 2005, at 1:50 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> In the worst-case scenario if that turns out to no longer be the  
> case, one could use a standalone as a CGI, no?



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Wed Oct 26 17:29:41 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:29:41 -0400
Subject: revdocs
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744652@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

Hi Marielle

I agree with everything you said, except the part about getting people
to contribute...

I only created that test site to get a personal feel for how easy or
difficult it would be for people to use it - to help gage my opinion
about the practicality. There is very little that is actually there -
just enough to get a sense of it. I think having one of you wiki experts
handling the hosting is obviously a better way to go.

If you see my response to David's post - I basically said "sign me up,
I'll contribute"

Regarding getting people to use it, however...

The folks here do not just answer Emails. We have seen numerous examples
of people answering with scripts that they wrote custom, just to answer
a question - examples of people working together very hard to work out
the best way to solve a problem - examples of people saying "send me
your stack, and I will see if I can figure out what is wrong"

I have done these things, and I know many of the other participants on
this list have done so as well. 

So, if folks are willing to put time and energy into answering a single
question (which our list's history has proven) then there is every
possibility that they will be willing to put a very small amount of time
and energy into adding an answer (that they have already answered on the
list) to the wiki.

For that matter - it does not have to be the person who answers the
question who puts it on the wiki - sometimes the asker can do the work,
as a means of returning the favor.

It just has to become a habit - which means we have to gently pester
each other with comments like "hey, great explanation, please put it on
the wiki" or some such thing.

I do think we should give thought to other incentives as well:

Each contributor should be able to include a link to their website, and
if they contribute an original how-to article, then they should be able
to include a little bit of self-promotion along with their link. 

For those folks who teach revolution, having an online revdoc wiki will
be a big boon, so we might want to encourage them to contribute as much
as possible.

Any other incentives you can think of?



From tkuypers at pandora.be  Wed Oct 26 17:40:30 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:40:30 +0200
Subject: Enhancement for Constellation?
Message-ID: <E771196B-4C9A-4029-A30F-FD08D7A1ABD2@pandora.be>

Hi,

Started using Constellation a few days ago and after some getting  
used to it, I must say I LIKE IT!!!!!!

As probably a lot of us, I've created a few "helper" stacks to put in  
the missing parts in the basic Revolution IDE but all of my items are  
incorporated in Constellation a lot better.
Except for one...

When working in larger structures, I found it handy to automatically  
insert a comment at the end of a control structure, showing the name  
of the control structure.
The comment is only placed when the structure is more then 5 lines  
big, including the start- and endline.

Example:
     IF it would be summer all year THEN
         Do something line 1
         Do something line 2
         Do something line 3
     ELSE
         Do another thing line 1
         Do another thing line 2
         Do another thing line 3
         Do another thing line 4
         IF it is winter and there is a lot of snow THEN
             REPEAT with a = 1 to the amount of snow
                 Do snowboard thing line 1
                 Do snowboard thing line 2
                 Do snowboard thing line 3
             END REPEAT  -- with a = 1 to the amount of snow
         END IF  -- it is winter and there is a lot of snow
     END IF  -- it would be summer all year

This way it is very easy to see what end belongs to what beginning...

Maybe a suggestion for the next version of Constellation?


Regards,

Ton Kuypers

From tkuypers at pandora.be  Wed Oct 26 17:57:07 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:57:07 +0200
Subject: Missing option in Constellation
Message-ID: <6EFD27ED-E41C-43A1-8BAA-4D8ADD70DDC9@pandora.be>

And another enhancement suggestion:

When editing a script in the regular Revolution IDE, the "Edit" menu  
has got 2 nifty items that are missing when using Constellation:
- Paste as comment
- Paste as formatted string

Both I use quite a lot, and are (probably the only) option I miss  
since switching to Constellation...


Regards,

Ton Kuypers


From userev at canelasoftware.com  Wed Oct 26 17:59:46 2005
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:59:46 -0700
Subject: Display problems remain in 2.6.1 using OS X
In-Reply-To: <p06230905bf858e8ff118@[69.19.167.41]>
References: <20051026170003.8CF4B825235@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230905bf858e8ff118@[69.19.167.41]>
Message-ID: <31A4E803-2693-4F5E-B033-008CB973A0C1@canelasoftware.com>


On Oct 26, 2005, at 1:52 PM, Jim Hurley wrote:

> Just got around to downloading 2.6.1.
>
> Haven't had a chance yet to explore all the good bug fixes yet.  
> But, the first thing I did was to check the screen refresh problem  
> in OS X. That remains a problem. The screen does not refresh after  
> many commands that affect the screen, such as "set the loc of...."  
> and writing to the screen. In the example:
>
> on mouseUp
>   put "" into field "display"
>   put "Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their  
> country." into tText
>   repeat with i = 1 to the number of chars in tText
>     put char i of tText after field "display"
>     unlock screen
>   end repeat
> end mouseUp
>
> The line "unlock screen" (or wait 0 milisec) is necessary in OS X  
> to get a smooth banner display.


Hi Jim,

I tried this and it looked the same with or without the "unlock  
screen".  Do you have another example that might demonstrate the  
problem?


Mark Talluto
-- 
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From tkuypers at pandora.be  Wed Oct 26 18:02:20 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 00:02:20 +0200
Subject: Is there a userlist or a forum for Constellation?
Message-ID: <2CE9BFC0-EC68-4290-ADF7-DD39FE1D84F7@pandora.be>

I really like this one, but is it fair to use this list for questions  
and remarks on Constellation?

Of course I could use info at daniels-mara.com as stated on http:// 
www.daniels-mara.com, but then the suggestions or remars aren't  
visible to all other users...

Any suggestions are welcome


Ton Kuypers


From userev at canelasoftware.com  Wed Oct 26 18:03:22 2005
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:03:22 -0700
Subject: step in debugger?
In-Reply-To: <26166DF3-FC70-4C5C-9F7C-FC38FAE315F2@conncoll.edu>
References: <FF544E0C-E070-4CF5-8A97-4B20CE6AB024@conncoll.edu>
	<855D5543-44AA-4254-8F96-CB432265C2A3@canelasoftware.com>
	<CA3C428A-06A5-4B76-A2EE-CC2DCAFAABBB@conncoll.edu>
	<C4A097F8-52AD-4B16-9AD5-76CD41000FA7@canelasoftware.com>
	<26166DF3-FC70-4C5C-9F7C-FC38FAE315F2@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <4DC20EEC-49BD-457D-81EB-B4E9ABBA7867@canelasoftware.com>


On Oct 26, 2005, at 12:06 PM, Charles Hartman wrote:

>
> On Oct 26, 2005, at 1:56 PM, Mark Talluto wrote:
>
>
>>
>> On Oct 26, 2005, at 10:19 AM, Charles Hartman wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>> There is a checkbox in Constellation that needs to be checked  
>>>> called:  into.  Make sure it is checked for it to work as expected.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ?? I don't want to step into; I want to step over. What I don't  
>>> want to do is run.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry about that.  I guess I did not read very well.  Would  
>> putting a breakpoint after the line you wish to step over work for  
>> you?
>>
>
> Yes, that does work. The failure of "step" to behave right isn't an  
> unsolvable dilemma. It's just that "step" exists for the sake of  
> saving that labor of setting _two_ (or more) breakpoints every time  
> you want to watch closely what happens in a short sequence of lines.

I totally get it Charles.  As in other areas of life, one must use  
workarounds until something changes.  All in all, it is minor  
compared the problems that have been solved by Constellation.


Mark Talluto
-- 
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Oct 26 18:06:07 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:06:07 -0500
Subject: altQuickTable
Message-ID: <435FFDCF.4020907@chipp.com>

Hey gang,

Just posted a very simple table editing script, using just a single 
field. I find it invaluable and have used variations of this script on 
many different project.

If you're interested, just type into the message box and enter:

go URL "http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/altQuickTable.rev"

It automatically calculates which column of a field you have clicked in, 
asks for a value and inserts it into the proper row/column.

best,

Chipp
-- 
--------------
Chipp Walters
www.altuit.com



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Wed Oct 26 18:14:50 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 18:14:50 -0400
Subject: step in debugger?
In-Reply-To: <4DC20EEC-49BD-457D-81EB-B4E9ABBA7867@canelasoftware.com>
References: <FF544E0C-E070-4CF5-8A97-4B20CE6AB024@conncoll.edu>
	<855D5543-44AA-4254-8F96-CB432265C2A3@canelasoftware.com>
	<CA3C428A-06A5-4B76-A2EE-CC2DCAFAABBB@conncoll.edu>
	<C4A097F8-52AD-4B16-9AD5-76CD41000FA7@canelasoftware.com>
	<26166DF3-FC70-4C5C-9F7C-FC38FAE315F2@conncoll.edu>
	<4DC20EEC-49BD-457D-81EB-B4E9ABBA7867@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <1C25E52C-FF8B-4D71-94F6-A02BEED288F3@conncoll.edu>


On Oct 26, 2005, at 6:03 PM, Mark Talluto wrote:

> I totally get it Charles.  As in other areas of life, one must use  
> workarounds until something changes.  All in all, it is minor  
> compared the problems that have been solved by Constellation.

True enough. I've been collecting little nits, precisely because I'm  
now using Constellation all the time. shudder at the thought of doing  
without it.

Charles



From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Oct 26 18:14:29 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:14:29 -0500
Subject: RevCentral Newsletter #5
Message-ID: <435FFFC5.6030702@chipp.com>

Been a long time coming! Dan and I 'took the summer off' but now we're 
back and ready for action. :-)

If you haven't already seen it in your InBox, then you can subscribe 
(free) at:

http://www.revCentral.com

For those of you interested, we're asking for some input about the next 
RevCon conference. You can access the online poll from Dan's column in 
the newsletter.

If you're not subscribed, you can view the newsletter at:
http://www.altuit.com/webs/revCentral/Number5/default.htm

-Chipp


-- 
--------------
Chipp Walters
www.altuit.com



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Oct 26 18:45:52 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:45:52 -0700
Subject: OpenSockets and multiple stacks...?
In-Reply-To: <435FAA34.5080104@tweedly.net>
References: <1127343.1130277357481.JavaMail.johnpatten@mac.com>
	<f99b52860510251530t7068aaedma929e91968660f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<435ED33C.40804@tweedly.net>
	<12957064444.20051026000736@ahsoftware.net>
	<435FAA34.5080104@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <5626128190.20051026154552@ahsoftware.net>

Alex-

Wednesday, October 26, 2005, 9:09:24 AM, you wrote:

> I think that was what I was trying to describe in:

Well, sure, but that's only if you read the whole post before sending
an off-the-top-of-your-head reply...

> peer-to-peer, although interesting, introduces (in this context) a range
> of privacy / confidentiality / trust concerns that I am not sure I'd

...and that's part of what makes it interesting...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From jhurley at infostations.com  Wed Oct 26 18:44:42 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:44:42 -0700
Subject: Display problems remain in 2.6.1 using OS X
In-Reply-To: <20051026214545.2EB6B8252D1@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051026214545.2EB6B8252D1@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230906bf85b3568ffb@[69.19.167.41]>

>  Jim Hurley wrote:
>
>>  Just got around to downloading 2.6.1.
>>
>>  Haven't had a chance yet to explore all the good bug fixes yet. 
>>  But, the first thing I did was to check the screen refresh problem 
>>  in OS X. That remains a problem. The screen does not refresh after
>  > many commands that affect the screen, such as "set the loc of...." 
>>  and writing to the screen. In the example:
>>
>>  on mouseUp
>>    put "" into field "display"
>>    put "Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their 
>>  country." into tText
>>    repeat with i = 1 to the number of chars in tText
>>      put char i of tText after field "display"
>>      unlock screen
>>    end repeat
>>  end mouseUp
>>
>>  The line "unlock screen" (or wait 0 milisec) is necessary in OS X 
>>  to get a smooth banner display.
>
>
>Hi Jim,
>
>I tried this and it looked the same with or without the "unlock 
>screen".  Do you have another example that might demonstrate the
>problem?


Hi Mark,

Yes. In the message box:

go stack url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/DisplayProblemsOSX.rev"

It illustrates both the "set pos"  as well as the "put char" problem. 
Are you running OS X?

I brought this up  at the Monterey conference with Mark Waddingham 
and I sent him the stack above. He said he would see if he could come 
up with a fix.

Jim


From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Oct 26 18:51:29 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:51:29 -0700
Subject: Is there a userlist or a forum for Constellation?
In-Reply-To: <2CE9BFC0-EC68-4290-ADF7-DD39FE1D84F7@pandora.be>
References: <2CE9BFC0-EC68-4290-ADF7-DD39FE1D84F7@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <2503E1CA-FAAF-4CCE-9AB9-EC05B92C1648@danshafer.com>

FWIW, my take on this is that this list is fair game for discussion  
of Rev add-ons and tools. We've had quite a bit of that over the  
years (years?!) I've been involved with it.

Dan

On Oct 26, 2005, at 3:02 PM, Ton Kuypers wrote:

> I really like this one, but is it fair to use this list for  
> questions and remarks on Constellation?
>
> Of course I could use info at daniels-mara.com as stated on http:// 
> www.daniels-mara.com, but then the suggestions or remars aren't  
> visible to all other users...
>
> Any suggestions are welcome
>
>
> Ton Kuypers
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Oct 26 18:52:51 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:52:51 -0700
Subject: altQuickTable
In-Reply-To: <435FFDCF.4020907@chipp.com>
References: <435FFDCF.4020907@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <2BD16790-6478-42D3-ADEF-726ED2AC0B85@danshafer.com>

Chipp...

Way cool, dude!

Dan

On Oct 26, 2005, at 3:06 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Hey gang,
>
> Just posted a very simple table editing script, using just a single  
> field. I find it invaluable and have used variations of this script  
> on many different project.
>
> If you're interested, just type into the message box and enter:
>
> go URL "http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/altQuickTable.rev"
>
> It automatically calculates which column of a field you have  
> clicked in, asks for a value and inserts it into the proper row/ 
> column.
>
> best,
>
> Chipp
> -- 
> --------------
> Chipp Walters
> www.altuit.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Oct 26 19:03:55 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:03:55 -0700
Subject: Enhancement for Constellation?
In-Reply-To: <E771196B-4C9A-4029-A30F-FD08D7A1ABD2@pandora.be>
References: <E771196B-4C9A-4029-A30F-FD08D7A1ABD2@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <6027211247.20051026160355@ahsoftware.net>

Ton-

Wednesday, October 26, 2005, 2:40:30 PM, you wrote:

> When working in larger structures, I found it handy to automatically
> insert a comment at the end of a control structure, showing the name
> of the control structure.
> The comment is only placed when the structure is more then 5 lines  
> big, including the start- and endline.

I do the same, only I rarely limit it to structures five lines or
longer - I know that I'll be going in and adding things to the
conditional structure later on, whether I intend to or not, so adding
the comment when I create it makes it harder to forget about it when
the structure grows later.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Oct 26 19:06:33 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:06:33 -0400
Subject: Enhancement for Constellation?
In-Reply-To: <6027211247.20051026160355@ahsoftware.net>
References: <E771196B-4C9A-4029-A30F-FD08D7A1ABD2@pandora.be>
	<6027211247.20051026160355@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <c8dfcc9feb099d76e8fe7e6a42b7188e@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 26, 2005, at 7:03 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> I do the same, only I rarely limit it to structures five lines or
> longer - I know that I'll be going in and adding things to the
> conditional structure later on, whether I intend to or not, so adding
> the comment when I create it makes it harder to forget about it when
> the structure grows later.

True enough. I'd see no problem with commenting the end-statement of 
any structure when it is first created. It has no negative effect even 
on short structures.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From tkuypers at pandora.be  Wed Oct 26 19:09:17 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 01:09:17 +0200
Subject: Enhancement for Constellation?
In-Reply-To: <6027211247.20051026160355@ahsoftware.net>
References: <E771196B-4C9A-4029-A30F-FD08D7A1ABD2@pandora.be>
	<6027211247.20051026160355@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <502E2D6E-FF5D-410A-AE5A-2AEF038C9B38@pandora.be>

forgot to mention that I really would like to have these comments set  
when Constellation reformats the script (using TAB or ENTER).
Now it capitalises these structures, should be easy to add the  
comments when a structure grows...
And of course make the amount of lines a preference ;-)

Ton


On 27-okt-05, at 01:03, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Ton-
>
> Wednesday, October 26, 2005, 2:40:30 PM, you wrote:
>
>
>> When working in larger structures, I found it handy to automatically
>> insert a comment at the end of a control structure, showing the name
>> of the control structure.
>> The comment is only placed when the structure is more then 5 lines
>> big, including the start- and endline.
>>
>
> I do the same, only I rarely limit it to structures five lines or
> longer - I know that I'll be going in and adding things to the
> conditional structure later on, whether I intend to or not, so adding
> the comment when I create it makes it harder to forget about it when
> the structure grows later.
>
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Wed Oct 26 19:59:16 2005
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 18:59:16 -0500
Subject: Missing option in Constellation
In-Reply-To: <6EFD27ED-E41C-43A1-8BAA-4D8ADD70DDC9@pandora.be>
References: <6EFD27ED-E41C-43A1-8BAA-4D8ADD70DDC9@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <465F6A2D-7393-4F67-9E4C-EB5915AA52B5@daniels-mara.com>

Ton,

I think for that we need our own menu for that. I have to check out  
how tricky that would be within the IDE.

Jerry

http://www.daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm
Scripts and properties in a tabbed editor!

On Oct 26, 2005, at 4:57 PM, Ton Kuypers wrote:

> And another enhancement suggestion:
>
> When editing a script in the regular Revolution IDE, the "Edit"  
> menu has got 2 nifty items that are missing when using Constellation:
> - Paste as comment
> - Paste as formatted string
>
> Both I use quite a lot, and are (probably the only) option I miss  
> since switching to Constellation...
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Ton Kuypers
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Wed Oct 26 20:01:15 2005
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:01:15 -0500
Subject: Is there a userlist or a forum for Constellation?
In-Reply-To: <2CE9BFC0-EC68-4290-ADF7-DD39FE1D84F7@pandora.be>
References: <2CE9BFC0-EC68-4290-ADF7-DD39FE1D84F7@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <B99E2EF8-D91C-41C3-AB49-9C27DB8FBC9E@daniels-mara.com>

If you guys would like one, I could look into getting a listServ or  
something going.

The services like that are not inexpensive, so I'd have to look at  
either doing my own majorDomo or writing a Gadget (Gadget Talk!).

I'm open to ideas.

Best,

Jerry

http://www.daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm
Scripts and properties in a tabbed editor!

On Oct 26, 2005, at 5:02 PM, Ton Kuypers wrote:

> I really like this one, but is it fair to use this list for  
> questions and remarks on Constellation?
>
> Of course I could use info at daniels-mara.com as stated on http:// 
> www.daniels-mara.com, but then the suggestions or remars aren't  
> visible to all other users...
>
> Any suggestions are welcome
>
>
> Ton Kuypers
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Wed Oct 26 20:03:40 2005
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:03:40 -0500
Subject: step in debugger?
In-Reply-To: <4DC20EEC-49BD-457D-81EB-B4E9ABBA7867@canelasoftware.com>
References: <FF544E0C-E070-4CF5-8A97-4B20CE6AB024@conncoll.edu>
	<855D5543-44AA-4254-8F96-CB432265C2A3@canelasoftware.com>
	<CA3C428A-06A5-4B76-A2EE-CC2DCAFAABBB@conncoll.edu>
	<C4A097F8-52AD-4B16-9AD5-76CD41000FA7@canelasoftware.com>
	<26166DF3-FC70-4C5C-9F7C-FC38FAE315F2@conncoll.edu>
	<4DC20EEC-49BD-457D-81EB-B4E9ABBA7867@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <CCE5F6C6-96BA-4525-8D6C-66D2AD05F7A3@daniels-mara.com>

Mark,

We did find today that Constellation needs to put a "ghost  
breakpoint" (one the user can't see) after "try". I do that now with  
a bunch of situations where the engine wants to "step out" but the  
user has indicated "step over". We'll just have to crate more ghosts.  
After all, it's nearly Halloween!

Jerry

http://www.daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm
Scripts and properties in a tabbed editor!

On Oct 26, 2005, at 5:03 PM, Mark Talluto wrote:

>
> On Oct 26, 2005, at 12:06 PM, Charles Hartman wrote:
>
>
>>
>> On Oct 26, 2005, at 1:56 PM, Mark Talluto wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 26, 2005, at 10:19 AM, Charles Hartman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> There is a checkbox in Constellation that needs to be checked  
>>>>> called:  into.  Make sure it is checked for it to work as  
>>>>> expected.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ?? I don't want to step into; I want to step over. What I don't  
>>>> want to do is run.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry about that.  I guess I did not read very well.  Would  
>>> putting a breakpoint after the line you wish to step over work  
>>> for you?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yes, that does work. The failure of "step" to behave right isn't  
>> an unsolvable dilemma. It's just that "step" exists for the sake  
>> of saving that labor of setting _two_ (or more) breakpoints every  
>> time you want to watch closely what happens in a short sequence of  
>> lines.
>>
>
> I totally get it Charles.  As in other areas of life, one must use  
> workarounds until something changes.  All in all, it is minor  
> compared the problems that have been solved by Constellation.
>
>
> Mark Talluto
> -- 
> CANELA Software
> http://www.canelasoftware.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Oct 26 20:27:10 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:27:10 -0400
Subject: Is there a userlist or a forum for Constellation?
In-Reply-To: <B99E2EF8-D91C-41C3-AB49-9C27DB8FBC9E@daniels-mara.com>
References: <2CE9BFC0-EC68-4290-ADF7-DD39FE1D84F7@pandora.be>
	<B99E2EF8-D91C-41C3-AB49-9C27DB8FBC9E@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <1609414ef7b849fc79ef9bc1be78d987@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 26, 2005, at 8:01 PM, Jerry Daniels wrote:

> If you guys would like one, I could look into getting a listServ or 
> something going.
>
> The services like that are not inexpensive, so I'd have to look at 
> either doing my own majorDomo or writing a Gadget (Gadget Talk!).

Just like the docs issue, I'd like to see something directly integrated 
into the Rev/Constellation environment. After all, that's where I am 
working these days, and the way Rev works with networked content, I 
really like integrated tools.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From michaell at unimelb.edu.au  Wed Oct 26 20:34:45 2005
From: michaell at unimelb.edu.au (Michael J. Lew)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:34:45 +1000
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
Message-ID: <p05200f21bf85c9509506@[128.250.229.137]>

How can I prevent users from being able to make non-number values in 
a field? Simply preventing non-numeric keys is not enough because I 
need to prevent things that use characters that are in valid numbers 
to make non-numbers like 1.2.3 or -1.2-3.

I thought it would be relatively easy, but it might not be. Here is 
the field script of a surprisingly complicated attempt:

on keydown thekey
   if theKey is in "0123456789-." then --may be an allowable input
     -- but I still need to check whether the result would be a valid number.
     put value(the selectedLine) into thisLine --current number
     put length(thisLine) into thisLineLen
     put the selectedCHunk into sc --returns character locations from 
start of field
    
     --Need to find where the current line starts
     put offset(thisLine,me,min(0,word 2 of sc-thislinelen)) into thisLineStart
     --The characters to skip bit is an attempt to prevent the offset function
     --  from returning a match to an earlier line in the field.
     --  It needs the min function to prevent negative values.
    
     --Now see if the input would make a non-numeric result
     --First find where the selection point is in the line
     put word 2 of sc +1 - thisLineStart into theSelectionStartChar
     put word 4 of sc +1 - thisLineStart into theSelectionEndChar
     --I don't know why I had to add one to the values...
     put thisLineStart & return & theSelectionStartChar && theSelectionEndCHar
     --Now test the input in the relevant place
     put theKey into char theSelectionStartChar to theSelectionEndChar 
of thisLine
    
     --next line to help debugging
     --put  thisLine & return & thisLineStart & return & 
theSelectionStartChar && theSelectionEndChar
    
     if thisLine & "0" is a number then --should be OK
       --Needs the appended zero to allow a line to start with a decimal point.
       pass KeyDown
     end if
   end if
end keydown


It seems to work, but it's an extraordinarily long and winding road 
to get to a simple end-point. What am I missing?

Thanks,
Michael

-- 
Michael J. Lew

Senior Lecturer
Department of Pharmacology
The University of Melbourne
Parkville 3010 put "-1" is a number
Victoria
Australia

Phone +613 8344 8304

**
New email address: michaell at unimelb.edu.au
**


From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Oct 26 20:39:04 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 01:39:04 +0100
Subject: Programming tools philosophy.
Message-ID: <436021A8.8080000@tweedly.net>


Slashdot tonight (or today,depending on your point of view) has a link 
to a, IMHO, fascinating article about Visual Studio. Now I've never used 
VS, and never will, but what the author says here about programming 
style and programming tools is much more widely applicable.

http://charlespetzold.com/etc/DoesVisualStudioRotTheMind.html

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/149 - Release Date: 25/10/2005



From see3d at writeme.com  Wed Oct 26 20:48:18 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:48:18 -0400
Subject: revdocs
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744652@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744652@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <00BA4156-CD78-4D55-A9E6-F0A2BB4AC90B@writeme.com>

Wiki team ;-)

I am here following all these wiki threads intently.  I am exited  
about the prospects of this --after all I have stood up on my soap  
box more than once to try to get folks interested in this.  I have  
little experience with the mechanics needed, so I am just lurking in  
the background learning from your excellent posts.  Be certain that I  
will give it my full support.

I also think it is a wise move to plan the requirements and operating  
mode so that it makes it as easy as possible for contributers to this  
list to contribute to the wiki without making a separate effort to do  
so.  Could you imagine posting a reply to this list with some  
formatting information intended for the wiki --and the wiki (or a Rev  
program) was monitoring all the posts here, looking for ones meant  
for it.  That would require little additional work by an experienced  
poster to contribute to both at the same time.  A bit of up front  
planning could make or break the effort.

Dennis

On Oct 26, 2005, at 5:29 PM, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

> Hi Marielle
>
> I agree with everything you said, except the part about getting people
> to contribute...


From soapdog at mac.com  Wed Oct 26 20:57:24 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:57:24 -0200
Subject: Programming tools philosophy.
In-Reply-To: <436021A8.8080000@tweedly.net>
References: <436021A8.8080000@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <BF85A417-ED8A-4E1A-A7F4-CE93E111E609@mac.com>


On Oct 26, 2005, at 10:39 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

>
> Slashdot tonight (or today,depending on your point of view) has a  
> link to a, IMHO, fascinating article about Visual Studio. Now I've  
> never used VS, and never will, but what the author says here about  
> programming style and programming tools is much more widely  
> applicable.
>
> http://charlespetzold.com/etc/DoesVisualStudioRotTheMind.html
>

I used some MS tools in the past (well, at least what I can call  
past, some years ago), I was never a happy coder... everything felt  
so hacked up, gee, I quickly moved to Delphi (which felt less like a  
hack).

Before Revolution the only three environments I was trully happy were  
Scheme48, REBOL and Turbo Pascal 3. I learned to code in Turbo Pascal  
3 and those yellow chars still make me smile. I guess that before  
Rev, I was never happy with GUI programming environments...

One of the things I like best of Rev is that it works like I want it  
to work, if what I want is not a standard feature, I can always build  
my own tool and use it as plugin...

Cheers
andre


> -- 
> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/149 - Release Date:  
> 25/10/2005
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 26 21:02:07 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 18:02:07 -0700
Subject: revdocs
In-Reply-To: <00BA4156-CD78-4D55-A9E6-F0A2BB4AC90B@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <BF85751F.2FA64%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Perhaps you might consider the concept of a 'vestibule' or 'conditional
acceptance' of material that everyone could view, but would realize that it
was possibly flawed or redundant.  The purpose would be to encourage
contribution with fear of 'damaging' or accidentally introducing mistakes
that would affect others.

We all want to be correct and complete, but growing into and up with a
language as rich at Transcript is daunting.  Those needing info that has
been reviewed could request viewing only that, but those willing to learn by
working with all of the material could choose to do so.

It may only be that material is labeled 'new', 'untested', or such, but then
the user community would have a better feel for the guidance.

Also, I would like to see a mod date or something, since the internet is
filled with data from 1999, but no way of knowing.

My 2 cents worth, at least it was a the turn of the century.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 10/26/05 5:48 PM, "Dennis Brown" <see3d at writeme.com> wrote:

> Wiki team ;-)
> 
> I am here following all these wiki threads intently.  I am exited
> about the prospects of this --after all I have stood up on my soap
> box more than once to try to get folks interested in this.  I have
> little experience with the mechanics needed, so I am just lurking in
> the background learning from your excellent posts.  Be certain that I
> will give it my full support.
> 
> I also think it is a wise move to plan the requirements and operating
> mode so that it makes it as easy as possible for contributers to this
> list to contribute to the wiki without making a separate effort to do
> so.  Could you imagine posting a reply to this list with some
> formatting information intended for the wiki --and the wiki (or a Rev
> program) was monitoring all the posts here, looking for ones meant
> for it.  That would require little additional work by an experienced
> poster to contribute to both at the same time.  A bit of up front
> planning could make or break the effort.
> 
> Dennis
> 
> On Oct 26, 2005, at 5:29 PM, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:
> 
>> Hi Marielle
>> 
>> I agree with everything you said, except the part about getting people
>> to contribute...
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From see3d at writeme.com  Wed Oct 26 21:07:09 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:07:09 -0400
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
In-Reply-To: <p05200f21bf85c9509506@[128.250.229.137]>
References: <p05200f21bf85c9509506@[128.250.229.137]>
Message-ID: <3D43449F-8018-40CA-A1F7-21462A2FDE0A@writeme.com>

Try using isNumber --from the docs:

the isNumber of value
isNumber(value)

isNumber(8) -- returns true
isNumber(1+5) -- returns true
isNumber(foo) -- returns false

Dennis

On Oct 26, 2005, at 8:34 PM, Michael J. Lew wrote:

> How can I prevent users from being able to make non-number values  
> in a field? Simply preventing non-numeric keys is not enough  
> because I need to prevent things that use characters that are in  
> valid numbers to make non-numbers like 1.2.3 or -1.2-3.
>
> I thought it would be relatively easy, but it might not be. Here is  
> the field script of a surprisingly complicated attempt:
>
> on keydown thekey
>   if theKey is in "0123456789-." then --may be an allowable input
>     -- but I still need to check whether the result would be a  
> valid number.
>     put value(the selectedLine) into thisLine --current number
>     put length(thisLine) into thisLineLen
>     put the selectedCHunk into sc --returns character locations  
> from start of field
>        --Need to find where the current line starts
>     put offset(thisLine,me,min(0,word 2 of sc-thislinelen)) into  
> thisLineStart
>     --The characters to skip bit is an attempt to prevent the  
> offset function
>     --  from returning a match to an earlier line in the field.
>     --  It needs the min function to prevent negative values.
>        --Now see if the input would make a non-numeric result
>     --First find where the selection point is in the line
>     put word 2 of sc +1 - thisLineStart into theSelectionStartChar
>     put word 4 of sc +1 - thisLineStart into theSelectionEndChar
>     --I don't know why I had to add one to the values...
>     put thisLineStart & return & theSelectionStartChar &&  
> theSelectionEndCHar
>     --Now test the input in the relevant place
>     put theKey into char theSelectionStartChar to  
> theSelectionEndChar of thisLine
>        --next line to help debugging
>     --put  thisLine & return & thisLineStart & return &  
> theSelectionStartChar && theSelectionEndChar
>        if thisLine & "0" is a number then --should be OK
>       --Needs the appended zero to allow a line to start with a  
> decimal point.
>       pass KeyDown
>     end if
>   end if
> end keydown
>
>
> It seems to work, but it's an extraordinarily long and winding road  
> to get to a simple end-point. What am I missing?
>
> Thanks,
> Michael
>
> -- 
> Michael J. Lew
>
> Senior Lecturer
> Department of Pharmacology
> The University of Melbourne
> Parkville 3010 put "-1" is a number
> Victoria
> Australia
>
> Phone +613 8344 8304
>
> **
> New email address: michaell at unimelb.edu.au
> **
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From simplsol at aol.com  Wed Oct 26 22:21:28 2005
From: simplsol at aol.com (simplsol at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:21:28 -0400
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
In-Reply-To: <3D43449F-8018-40CA-A1F7-21462A2FDE0A@writeme.com>
References: <p05200f21bf85c9509506@[128.250.229.137]>
	<3D43449F-8018-40CA-A1F7-21462A2FDE0A@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <8C7A8B44582E4A0-10A8-A223@MBLK-M03.sysops.aol.com>

Michael,
You can also add zero to it; if it is a number then the result will be 
empty.
Paul Looney

-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Brown <see3d at writeme.com>
To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:07:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Ensuring numeric input

   Try using isNumber --from the docs:?
?
 the isNumber of value?
 isNumber(value)?
?
 isNumber(8) -- returns true?
 isNumber(1+5) -- returns true?
 isNumber(foo) -- returns false?
?
 Dennis?
?
 On Oct 26, 2005, at 8:34 PM, Michael J. Lew wrote:?
?
  > How can I prevent users from being able to make non-number values > 
in a field? Simply preventing non-numeric keys is not enough > because 
I need to prevent things that use characters that are in > valid 
numbers to make non-numbers like 1.2.3 or -1.2-3.?
 >?
  > I thought it would be relatively easy, but it might not be. Here is 
> the field script of a surprisingly complicated attempt:?
 >?
 > on keydown thekey?
 > if theKey is in "0123456789-." then --may be an allowable input?
  > -- but I still need to check whether the result would be a > valid 
number.?
 > put value(the selectedLine) into thisLine --current number?
 > put length(thisLine) into thisLineLen?
  > put the selectedCHunk into sc --returns character locations > from 
start of field?
 > --Need to find where the current line starts?
  > put offset(thisLine,me,min(0,word 2 of sc-thislinelen)) into > 
thisLineStart?
  > --The characters to skip bit is an attempt to prevent the > offset 
function?
 > -- from returning a match to an earlier line in the field.?
 > -- It needs the min function to prevent negative values.?
 > --Now see if the input would make a non-numeric result?
 > --First find where the selection point is in the line?
 > put word 2 of sc +1 - thisLineStart into theSelectionStartChar?
 > put word 4 of sc +1 - thisLineStart into theSelectionEndChar?
 > --I don't know why I had to add one to the values...?
  > put thisLineStart & return & theSelectionStartChar && > 
theSelectionEndCHar?
 > --Now test the input in the relevant place?
  > put theKey into char theSelectionStartChar to > theSelectionEndChar 
of thisLine?
 > --next line to help debugging?
  > --put thisLine & return & thisLineStart & return & > 
theSelectionStartChar && theSelectionEndChar?
 > if thisLine & "0" is a number then --should be OK?
  > --Needs the appended zero to allow a line to start with a > decimal 
point.?
 > pass KeyDown?
 > end if?
 > end if?
 > end keydown?
 >?
 >?
  > It seems to work, but it's an extraordinarily long and winding road 
> to get to a simple end-point. What am I missing??
 >?
 > Thanks,?
 > Michael?
 >?
 > --> Michael J. Lew?
 >?
 > Senior Lecturer?
 > Department of Pharmacology?
 > The University of Melbourne?
 > Parkville 3010 put "-1" is a number?
 > Victoria?
 > Australia?
 >?
 > Phone +613 8344 8304?
 >?
 > **?
 > New email address: michaell at unimelb.edu.au?
 > **?
 > _______________________________________________?
 > use-revolution mailing list?
 > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com?
  > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > 
subscription preferences:?
 > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution?
 >?
?
 _______________________________________________?
 use-revolution mailing list?
 use-revolution at lists.runrev.com?
  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:?
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution?

    


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Wed Oct 26 22:25:38 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:25:38 -0400
Subject: working method?
Message-ID: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>

I know this is going to sound like a *really* dumb question, if only  
because it's so vague. But I'm wondering how people adjust their  
workflow to the way Transcript's code is dispersed among many  
separate scripts.

I keep getting lost. I keep forgetting where my code is that does  
such-and-such. (Which script was that in?) So I keep losing track of  
what I was about to do next, and my concentration falls apart. It's  
making Rev *much* slower for me to program in than supposedly more  
complicated languages like Python and C++.

Anybody think this makes any sense? Any hints how to think about it  
differently?

Charles Hartman





From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Oct 26 22:25:53 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:25:53 -0700
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
In-Reply-To: <8C7A8B44582E4A0-10A8-A223@MBLK-M03.sysops.aol.com>
References: <p05200f21bf85c9509506@[128.250.229.137]>	<3D43449F-8018-40CA-A1F7-21462A2FDE0A@writeme.com>
	<8C7A8B44582E4A0-10A8-A223@MBLK-M03.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <43603AB1.9010705@fourthworld.com>

simplsol at aol.com wrote:
> Michael,
> You can also add zero to it; if it is a number then the result will be 
> empty.

But is zero counted as zero, or would it add 0.00001 in Intel chips?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Oct 26 22:31:30 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:31:30 -0700
Subject: working method?
In-Reply-To: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
References: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <43603C02.3070608@fourthworld.com>

Charles Hartman wrote:
> I know this is going to sound like a *really* dumb question, if only  
> because it's so vague. But I'm wondering how people adjust their  
> workflow to the way Transcript's code is dispersed among many  separate 
> scripts.
> 
> I keep getting lost. I keep forgetting where my code is that does  
> such-and-such. (Which script was that in?) So I keep losing track of  
> what I was about to do next, and my concentration falls apart. It's  
> making Rev *much* slower for me to program in than supposedly more  
> complicated languages like Python and C++.

Why not break the code up into logically grouped chunks in libraries?

I tend to put as little code as necessary into UI elements, and have UI 
scripts call library routines.  Most is in the libraries, broken up by 
related functionality into things like Menus, Files, Utils, etc.  Of 
course Rev has no size limit to scripts so I could put it all in one 
massive library if needed, but breaking it up along logical lines helps 
me get to the part I need quickly.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Oct 26 22:32:46 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:32:46 -0700
Subject: working method?
In-Reply-To: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <BF858A5E.23A73%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Charles Hartman  wrote:

> I know this is going to sound like a *really* dumb question, if only
> because it's so vague. But I'm wondering how people adjust their
> workflow to the way Transcript's code is dispersed among many
> separate scripts.
> 
> I keep getting lost. I keep forgetting where my code is that does
> such-and-such. (Which script was that in?) So I keep losing track of
> what I was about to do next, and my concentration falls apart. It's
> making Rev *much* slower for me to program in than supposedly more
> complicated languages like Python and C++.
> 
> Anybody think this makes any sense? Any hints how to think about it
> differently?

One way might be Scripter's Scrapbook, from The Flexible learning Company.
http://www.flexiblelearning.com/ssbk.htm

Stack (or standalone) that acts as a repository for script snippets and
more.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 22:49:13 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:49:13 +1000
Subject: working method?
In-Reply-To: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
References: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510261949rcc41932xabd805864840d4ca@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/27/05, Charles Hartman <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu> wrote:
> I know this is going to sound like a *really* dumb question, if only
> because it's so vague. But I'm wondering how people adjust their
> workflow to the way Transcript's code is dispersed among many
> separate scripts.
>
> I keep getting lost. I keep forgetting where my code is that does
> such-and-such. (Which script was that in?) So I keep losing track of
> what I was about to do next, and my concentration falls apart. It's
> making Rev *much* slower for me to program in than supposedly more
> complicated languages like Python and C++.
>
> Anybody think this makes any sense? Any hints how to think about it
> differently?
>

Hi Charles,

This is by no means a dumb question and everyone will probably have a
different answer to this, but here's my golden rule: place every
handler as low in the heirarchy as possible.

So if you have a button that does one thing, have the script that does
that thing in the button.
If you have a group of buttons all doing related stuff, put the script
in the group.
If you have multiple objects on the card that need to access the same
handler, use the card script.
For handlers that need to be available to all objects, put them in the
stack script.

Eric Chatonet proposed a neat system a while ago where he annotates
scripts to indicate where the handler they are calling is located. I
forget his exact nomenclature but it was something like this:

on mouseUp
  beep
  setNewColor   -- ? C
  set the label of me to "Click"
  doImportantStuff   -- ? S
  -- and so on
end mouseUp

Interspersed with commands in the button script, are two handlers that
are identified as being in the card script (? C) and the stack script
(? S). I don't actually do this myself, but you may find it useful.

Once you have written handlers in a certain place, the next step is to
be able to find them easily. There are a few tricks for this.

Firstly, use long descriptive names for your handlers e.g.
setStackForegroundColor is much easier to understnd than setColor when
you come back to it later.

Secondly, turn on "Show handler list" in the script editor. This gives
you a list of handler names down the side of your script window, which
can be sorted alphabetically or left in the order you wrote them.

My third tip would be to group related handlers in your scripts e.g.
in you have a whole set of color changing routines, put them together
so that if you find one color routine, you've found them all.

I hope you find this useful and I'm looking forward to reading other
people's suggestions.

Cheers,
Sarah

From see3d at writeme.com  Wed Oct 26 23:07:06 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:07:06 -0400
Subject: working method?
In-Reply-To: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
References: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <6DE45604-2D71-4619-BBF4-775216B0BA89@writeme.com>

Charles,

Depending on the size and complexity, you could take several  
approaches --I just have one.

The main application I am developing has just 1 stack and 1 card.  I  
put all the data crunching routines in the stack script and all the  
UI routines in the card script.  I only put other significant scripts  
into a few major buttons (like Print or Select File...).  All the  
rest of the UI elements call handlers in the card script if they even  
have a script.  I combine a lot of UI element scripts by passing an  
argument or simply using "the target".  It has been a snap to keep  
track of, but I only have 3000 lines of code and 200 handlers in 370  
UI elements --not much by most standards.

Dennis

On Oct 26, 2005, at 10:25 PM, Charles Hartman wrote:

> I know this is going to sound like a *really* dumb question, if  
> only because it's so vague. But I'm wondering how people adjust  
> their workflow to the way Transcript's code is dispersed among many  
> separate scripts.
>
> I keep getting lost. I keep forgetting where my code is that does  
> such-and-such. (Which script was that in?) So I keep losing track  
> of what I was about to do next, and my concentration falls apart.  
> It's making Rev *much* slower for me to program in than supposedly  
> more complicated languages like Python and C++.
>
> Anybody think this makes any sense? Any hints how to think about it  
> differently?
>
> Charles Hartman
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Oct 26 23:12:57 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:12:57 -0500
Subject: Runtime Engine
In-Reply-To: <435FEC2C.7040700@fourthworld.com>
References: <B3C8246A-7BBE-49B0-90D2-43F9185754BA@danshafer.com>	<fc.00231a3c0210331f00231a3c02102661.2103353@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>	<435FEB4E.2030704@hyperactivesw.com>
	<435FEC2C.7040700@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <436045B9.1070706@hyperactivesw.com>

Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Last I heard the engine remained free for CGI work to help evangelize 
> the language in a context not likely to affect sales of the GUI product.
> 
> In the worst-case scenario if that turns out to no longer be the case, 
> one could use a standalone as a CGI, no?

Don't know, but my guess would be "no". A standalone has a stack 
attached. When there's a stack, the engine tries to launch in GUI mode. 
I suspect that would cause errors.

Haven't tried it though.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Oct 26 23:30:50 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:30:50 -0700
Subject: Runtime Engine
In-Reply-To: <436045B9.1070706@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <B3C8246A-7BBE-49B0-90D2-43F9185754BA@danshafer.com>	<fc.00231a3c0210331f00231a3c02102661.2103353@richmond.sd38.bc.ca>	<435FEB4E.2030704@hyperactivesw.com>	<435FEC2C.7040700@fourthworld.com>
	<436045B9.1070706@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <436049EA.7000000@fourthworld.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:
> Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Last I heard the engine remained free for CGI work to help evangelize 
>> the language in a context not likely to affect sales of the GUI product.
>>
>> In the worst-case scenario if that turns out to no longer be the case, 
>> one could use a standalone as a CGI, no?
> 
> 
> Don't know, but my guess would be "no". A standalone has a stack 
> attached. When there's a stack, the engine tries to launch in GUI mode. 
> I suspect that would cause errors.
> 
> Haven't tried it though.

I haven't actually done it myself, but Mark Waddingham or someone else 
at RunRev once suggested it should work. I guess when running with a .mt 
it's no different from using libraries, which definitely work when 
running as a CGI...

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From michaell at unimelb.edu.au  Wed Oct 26 23:58:28 2005
From: michaell at unimelb.edu.au (Michael J. Lew)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:58:28 +1000
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
Message-ID: <p05200f23bf85fe6906eb@[128.250.229.137]>

Thanks for the suggestions, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be 
anywhere near that easy. A user can put the insertion point within a 
number and so I need to check before the character is entered whether 
the value will be a number after the new character is added at the 
insertion point. The new character may be at the start of a numeric 
string, in the middle or at the end. I can't find an easy function 
that gives the insertion point relative to the selectedLine. Most of 
the complexity of my script is in deciding where the insertion will 
be made in the line of interest.

Still lacking a simple solution...

At 8:56 PM -0500 26/10/05, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>the isNumber of value
>isNumber(value)
>
>isNumber(8) -- returns true
>isNumber(1+5) -- returns true
>isNumber(foo) -- returns false
>
>Dennis

Thanks, but the 'isnumber' function is the same as the 'is a number' 
that I used in my script.


At 8:56 PM -0500 26/10/05, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>You can also add zero to it; if it is a number then the result will be
>empty.
>Paul Looney

Thanks, but that is not functionally different from simply using 'is 
a number'. Or is it?

At 10:34 AM +1000 27/10/05, Michael J. Lew wrote:
>How can I prevent users from being able to make non-number values in 
>a field? Simply preventing non-numeric keys is not enough because I 
>need to prevent things that use characters that are in valid numbers 
>to make non-numbers like 1.2.3 or -1.2-3.
>
>I thought it would be relatively easy, but it might not be. Here is 
>the field script of a surprisingly complicated attempt:
>
>on keydown thekey
>   if theKey is in "0123456789-." then --may be an allowable input
>     -- but I still need to check whether the result would be a valid number.
>     put value(the selectedLine) into thisLine --current number
>     put length(thisLine) into thisLineLen
>     put the selectedCHunk into sc --returns character locations from 
>start of field
>    
>     --Need to find where the current line starts
>     put offset(thisLine,me,min(0,word 2 of sc-thislinelen)) into thisLineStart
>     --The characters to skip bit is an attempt to prevent the offset function
>     --  from returning a match to an earlier line in the field.
>     --  It needs the min function to prevent negative values.
>    
>     --Now see if the input would make a non-numeric result
>     --First find where the selection point is in the line
>     put word 2 of sc +1 - thisLineStart into theSelectionStartChar
>     put word 4 of sc +1 - thisLineStart into theSelectionEndChar
>     --I don't know why I had to add one to the values...
>     put thisLineStart & return & theSelectionStartChar && theSelectionEndCHar
>     --Now test the input in the relevant place
>     put theKey into char theSelectionStartChar to 
>theSelectionEndChar of thisLine
>    
>     --next line to help debugging
>     --put  thisLine & return & thisLineStart & return & 
>theSelectionStartChar && theSelectionEndChar
>    
>     if thisLine & "0" is a number then --should be OK
>       --Needs the appended zero to allow a line to start with a decimal point.
>       pass KeyDown
>     end if
>   end if
>end keydown
>
>
>It seems to work, but it's an extraordinarily long and winding road 
>to get to a simple end-point. What am I missing?
>
>Thanks,
>Michael



-- 
Michael J. Lew

Senior Lecturer
Department of Pharmacology
The University of Melbourne
Parkville 3010
Victoria
Australia

Phone +613 8344 8304

**
New email address: michaell at unimelb.edu.au
**


From davis.phil at comcast.net  Thu Oct 27 00:14:23 2005
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:14:23 -0700
Subject: working method?
In-Reply-To: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
References: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <4360541F.60404@comcast.net>

Hi Charles,

I use Sarah's Golden Rule and Richard's libraries concept as much as 
possible. In one project I'm using a few giant script repository stacks 
for everything that can be abstracted - actually they're just 
super-sized libraries.

Also, I find my focus improves when I do some pre-planning... not the 
funeral arrangements kind, but the flowcharts kind with paper and 
pencil. I depict a process or system on paper with as non-computerish, 
action-oriented labels and terms as possible, then desk-check my system 
on paper to see if I covered everything, and then use the flowchart as a 
roadmap in development of handlers and objects.

Regarding your question, this kind of project planning may result in 
insight that helps you organize your code in a way that will be 
intuitively obvious to you, so you'll just "know" where to look for 
such-and-such kind of handler.

Phil Davis



Charles Hartman wrote:
> I know this is going to sound like a *really* dumb question, if only  
> because it's so vague. But I'm wondering how people adjust their  
> workflow to the way Transcript's code is dispersed among many  separate 
> scripts.
> 
> I keep getting lost. I keep forgetting where my code is that does  
> such-and-such. (Which script was that in?) So I keep losing track of  
> what I was about to do next, and my concentration falls apart. It's  
> making Rev *much* slower for me to program in than supposedly more  
> complicated languages like Python and C++.
> 
> Anybody think this makes any sense? Any hints how to think about it  
> differently?
> 
> Charles Hartman



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct 27 00:15:34 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:15:34 -0500
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
In-Reply-To: <p05200f23bf85fe6906eb@[128.250.229.137]>
Message-ID: <BF85BE96.2EA4B%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/26/05 10:58 PM, "Michael J. Lew" <michaell at unimelb.edu.au> wrote:

> Thanks for the suggestions, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be
> anywhere near that easy. A user can put the insertion point within a
> number and so I need to check before the character is entered whether
> the value will be a number after the new character is added at the
> insertion point. The new character may be at the start of a numeric
> string, in the middle or at the end. I can't find an easy function
> that gives the insertion point relative to the selectedLine. Most of
> the complexity of my script is in deciding where the insertion will
> be made in the line of interest.
> 
> Still lacking a simple solution...

Try this one (script of the field):

on keydown whichKey
    if whichKey is among the chars of "01234567890.-" then
        put me into tTemp
        put word 2 of the selectedChunk into sChar
        put word 4 of the selectedChunk into eChar
        if eChar > sChar then -- some text is selected
            delete char sChar to eChar of tTemp
        end if
        put whichKey after char eChar of tTemp
        if isNumber(tTemp) then pass keyDown
    end if
end keyDown

Basically it checks to see if the end product would end up with a numeric
value, and if so, it will allow the keystroke to happen.

BTW: There was no reason to trap for backspace/delete as there isn't a way
AFAIK to remove some or part of a number and have the end result *not* be a
number.

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 00:40:41 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:40:41 +1000
Subject: Listing files in a folder
Message-ID: <f99b52860510262140x553ec10dsd4cbe5667d672982@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

I got sick of listing files in various folders and having to set the
default folder to do so, and then having to remember to set it back
afterwards. You can't  use "the files" to list files in anything other
than the default folder, so here is the function I wrote to handle
this boring stuff for me. It may be of no interest to most people, but
I am currently working on an app that has to examine multiple folders
and transfer files around, so it is saving me a lot of typing.

The first parameter is the path to a folder. The second parameter
dictates whether the full file path for each file should be returned,
or just the file name. It can be any of true, yes or full.

Cheers,
Sarah


function listFiles pFolder, pGiveFullPath
  if there is not a folder pFolder then return empty

  -- get the list of files & reset default folder
  put the defaultFolder into tOldDefault
  set the defaultFolder to pFolder
  put the files into tFileList
  set the defaultFolder to tOldDefault

  -- filter out OS X's invisible files
  filter tFileList without ".*"

  -- add folder path to file name if required
  if pGiveFullPath is among the items of "true,yes,full" then
    put empty into tFullList
    if the last char of pFolder <> "/" then put "/" after pFolder
    repeat for each line L in tFileList
      put pFolder & L & cr after tFullList
    end repeat
    delete last char of tFullList
    return tFullList

  else
    return tFileList
  end if
end listFiles


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 27 01:09:16 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:09:16 -0700
Subject: working method?
In-Reply-To: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <BF85AF0C.2FA85%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

After years of HCard and now 1.5 years with Rev, I am using the following
simplified system as much as possible.

--All handlers go in the stack script, if possible.
--All simple button mouseup scripts are identical
on mouseUp
  do (the short name of me)
end mouseUp
--set the LABEL of the btn for the user, the NAME for the program

on mouseDoubleDown
  do (the short name of me &"down")
end mouseDoubleDown

on mouseStillDown
   do (the short name of me &"stilldown")
end mouseStillDown


--stack handlers -----------------------------------------------
on btnPrev --<proc   only called by btn named ?btnPrev?
   --single click got you here
   put the target into msg
end btnPrev

on btnPrevDown --<proc
   --dbl click got you here
   put the target into msg
end btnPrevDown

on btnPrevStillDown --<proc
  --mouse held down got you here
  put the top of target into topp
  put the left of target into leftt
  --now call function btnLoc() with no parameters
  put btnLoc() into newPosition
  if newPosition is (topp&","&leftt) then
    --no drag since last check
    --because we have done nothing to move it
    --tracking the mouse loc would do the trick
  else
    --do something here
  end if
end btnPrevStillDown

function btnLoc --<func
  --Rev still remembers the last target clicked
  put the top of target into topp
  put the left of target into leftt
  return topp & "," & leftt
end btnLoc

--To document the stack script try something like
on getListOfHandlers
  global gOutput
  put the script of this stack into procs
  filter procs with "*--proc"
  put the script of this stack into funcs
  filter funcs with "*--<func"
  put the long name of this stack & \
      " on " & the short date & \
      " at " & the short time into gOutput
  put return & procs & \
      return & return & funcs & \
      return & "______ end of handler list" after gOutput
  
  put gOutput into msg
  set the clipboarddata to gOutput
  --now you have the report in 3 places
  -- msg, clip, and a global as long as Rev is running
end getListOfHandlers

Hope this helps you get started.
Also, you can add whatever you wish after the "--<proc"  such as why, what
it does, etc and it will be on the report

Jim Ault
Las Vegas





On 10/26/05 7:25 PM, "Charles Hartman" <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu> wrote:

> I know this is going to sound like a *really* dumb question, if only
> because it's so vague. But I'm wondering how people adjust their
> workflow to the way Transcript's code is dispersed among many
> separate scripts.
> 
> I keep getting lost. I keep forgetting where my code is that does
> such-and-such. (Which script was that in?) So I keep losing track of
> what I was about to do next, and my concentration falls apart. It's
> making Rev *much* slower for me to program in than supposedly more
> complicated languages like Python and C++.
> 
> Anybody think this makes any sense? Any hints how to think about it
> differently?
> 
> Charles Hartman
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Oct 27 01:24:37 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:24:37 -0700
Subject: Programming tools philosophy.
In-Reply-To: <436021A8.8080000@tweedly.net>
References: <436021A8.8080000@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <12850053653.20051026222437@ahsoftware.net>

Alex-

Wednesday, October 26, 2005, 5:39:04 PM, you wrote:

> http://charlespetzold.com/etc/DoesVisualStudioRotTheMind.html

Dang. I started reading this right after the White Sox game and now I
have to think about dinner, so I'll have to wait until tomorrow to see
how I would code a solver for the Enigma puzzle.

"What is the largest integer whose digits are all different (and do
not include 0) that is divisible by each of its individual digits?"

That article is a *very* interesting read - I couldn't put it down.
Petzold, of course, knows his stuff, and although I do disagree with
him on the subject of Generated Code here I always find him worth
reading.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Oct 27 01:26:14 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:26:14 -0700
Subject: working method?
In-Reply-To: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
References: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <4050150122.20051026222614@ahsoftware.net>

Charles-

Wednesday, October 26, 2005, 7:25:38 PM, you wrote:

> I keep getting lost. I keep forgetting where my code is that does
> such-and-such. (Which script was that in?) So I keep losing track of
> what I was about to do next, and my concentration falls apart. It's
> making Rev *much* slower for me to program in than supposedly more  
> complicated languages like Python and C++.

> Anybody think this makes any sense? Any hints how to think about it
> differently?

I find it interesting that the Petzold article that Alex Tweedly
pointed out has a section dealing with this very subject...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From davis.phil at comcast.net  Thu Oct 27 01:23:30 2005
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:23:30 -0700
Subject: char values for DOS app
Message-ID: <43606452.70906@comcast.net>

I'm attempting to run a DOS app with this shell command:

   put shell("dosapp.exe < input1.txt > output1.txt") into fld 2

The DOS app uses 'pageDown', 'arrowKeyRight' and 'arrowKeyDown' values 
to advance through its menus. I tried putting those char values into my 
'input1.txt' file by putting special placeholders in the data, then 
converting them before writing the file, like this:

   replace "#" with numtochar(65366) in tData
   replace ">" with numtochar(65363) in tData
   replace "+" with numtochar(65364) in tData

My initial test indicate something is amiss, but I don't know for sure 
that these values are the problem.

My real question:
What values can I expect the DOS app to recognize as PageDown, 
ArrowRight and ArrowDown values?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

Phil Davis



From userev at canelasoftware.com  Thu Oct 27 01:25:06 2005
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:25:06 -0700
Subject: step in debugger?
In-Reply-To: <CCE5F6C6-96BA-4525-8D6C-66D2AD05F7A3@daniels-mara.com>
References: <FF544E0C-E070-4CF5-8A97-4B20CE6AB024@conncoll.edu>
	<855D5543-44AA-4254-8F96-CB432265C2A3@canelasoftware.com>
	<CA3C428A-06A5-4B76-A2EE-CC2DCAFAABBB@conncoll.edu>
	<C4A097F8-52AD-4B16-9AD5-76CD41000FA7@canelasoftware.com>
	<26166DF3-FC70-4C5C-9F7C-FC38FAE315F2@conncoll.edu>
	<4DC20EEC-49BD-457D-81EB-B4E9ABBA7867@canelasoftware.com>
	<CCE5F6C6-96BA-4525-8D6C-66D2AD05F7A3@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <88E95E90-B71E-4EA4-BAF6-6A3E804F83A3@canelasoftware.com>


On Oct 26, 2005, at 5:03 PM, Jerry Daniels wrote:

> Mark,
>
> We did find today that Constellation needs to put a "ghost  
> breakpoint" (one the user can't see) after "try". I do that now  
> with a bunch of situations where the engine wants to "step out" but  
> the user has indicated "step over". We'll just have to crate more  
> ghosts. After all, it's nearly Halloween!
>
>

Jerry,

As spooky as it all sounds, I am game!


Mark Talluto
-- 
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From userev at canelasoftware.com  Thu Oct 27 01:54:27 2005
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:54:27 -0700
Subject: Display problems remain in 2.6.1 using OS X
In-Reply-To: <p06230906bf85b3568ffb@[69.19.167.41]>
References: <20051026214545.2EB6B8252D1@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230906bf85b3568ffb@[69.19.167.41]>
Message-ID: <325F5533-2A53-4BCE-A226-FB160741FC7A@canelasoftware.com>


On Oct 26, 2005, at 3:44 PM, Jim Hurley wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> Yes. In the message box:
>
> go stack url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/ 
> DisplayProblemsOSX.rev"
>
> It illustrates both the "set pos"  as well as the "put char"  
> problem. Are you running OS X?
>
> I brought this up  at the Monterey conference with Mark Waddingham  
> and I sent him the stack above. He said he would see if he could  
> come up with a fix.



Hi Jim,

I can see the problems now.  I tested this under 10.4.2.  Yep...this  
needs to be fixed.


Mark Talluto
-- 
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Thu Oct 27 01:56:32 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:56:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
In-Reply-To: <43603AB1.9010705@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510262252120.10650-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Richard,

Funny you should mention this, inasmuch as this week is the week in which
my class looks at computer risks and liability issues, including the
pentium bug...

@;-)

Of course, they just told me today that they think that it is possible for
a computerized voting scheme to have an error rate of <1%.

Talk about captology...

And this was after we talked about Win2000 having something on the order
of 60 million lines of code...

Judy

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> simplsol at aol.com wrote:
> > Michael,
> > You can also add zero to it; if it is a number then the result will be
> > empty.
>
> But is zero counted as zero, or would it add 0.00001 in Intel chips?



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct 27 02:14:55 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:14:55 -0700
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510262252120.10650-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510262252120.10650-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <4360705F.5010609@fourthworld.com>

Judy Perry wrote:
> Of course, they just told me today that they think that it is possible for
> a computerized voting scheme to have an error rate of <1%.

It's not the errors I'm concerned about as much as vulnerabilities and 
no audit trail.

Bartcop's Second Law of Economics:

     "If someone makes a mistake
      that puts money in their pocket,
      you can bet they'll make that mistake
      again, and again, and again..."


;)

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Oct 27 02:25:02 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 01:25:02 -0500
Subject: ANN: new free altPlugin: altMenuStack
Message-ID: <436072BE.9070807@chipp.com>

altMenuStack
builder by Chipp Walters with stack scripts by Ken Ray

What does this do?

This free plugin creates a stack with images and menutext and scripts 
which you can use as your own custom popup menu. It was created so that 
popup menus can have images associated with them. Check it out!

It's also compatible with Altuit's altPlugin toolbar available at:
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginCover/about.htm

As usual with any of our plugins, please back up your stacks! I use 
altPluginArchive to do this. It also makes a serialized copy of a stack 
each time it is invoked.

To try it just enter into your message box:
go URL "http://www.gadgetplugins.com/altplugins/altMenuStack.rev"

Mucho thanks to Ken Ray for his generous offer of his great menuStack 
scripts!!!

best,

Chipp Walters
Altuit, inc



From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Oct 27 02:26:08 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:26:08 -0700
Subject: working method?
In-Reply-To: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
References: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <FC87B947-3AF5-4878-B950-B41FF9F87C1D@danshafer.com>

Charles...

As you can already see, this was far from a dumb question. It is one  
that comes up every once in a while on the list. I am always  
interested to see the various opinions about the best way to factor  
code and organize applications.

 From my early days in HyperCard, I have followed, more or less  
religiously, Sarah's recommendation to keep all handlers as low in  
the hierarchy as makes sense and no lower. I like the self-contained  
feel this gives UI components. If I copy a button from Stack A to  
Stack B, I don't have to go get its script separately from the group  
or card or stack and copy that over to Stack B separately.

To keep track of where in the hierarchy a particular handler or  
function is defined, I use the simple expedient of comments on the  
lines where these operations are invoked. I tried naming conventions  
but for me, they either make the name less readable and  memorable or  
are too hard to type or both. So I just add a comment. It helps that  
I'm a very fast typist, so this kind of thing, once the habit is  
ingrained, takes little extra time. It does have the downside that if  
I relocate the handler, which I do fairly often particularly early in  
the development cycle, I have to remember to change the comment. But  
then if I used a naming convention, I'd have to change the handler  
call itself; at least my way the script doesn't break.

I have not yet learned to make extensive use of libraries. As an old  
HyperTalker, I can be heard to mutter such things as "Libraries? We  
don't need no stinki' libraries, man!" But I do see the value and  
wisdom of using them, particularly for functionality you want to  
reuse in multiple applications or stacks. So recently I've started  
factoring out some of my code into small libraries for this purpose.

Clearly this whole issue is a matter of style and what works for you.  
The idea of using some sort of coded characters as comments to  
indicate handlers that are in the card, group or stack is a shorthand  
way of doing what I do and probably works particularly well for  
slower typists. It also makes the comments easier to find.


On Oct 26, 2005, at 7:25 PM, Charles Hartman wrote:

> I know this is going to sound like a *really* dumb question, if  
> only because it's so vague. But I'm wondering how people adjust  
> their workflow to the way Transcript's code is dispersed among many  
> separate scripts.
>
> I keep getting lost. I keep forgetting where my code is that does  
> such-and-such. (Which script was that in?) So I keep losing track  
> of what I was about to do next, and my concentration falls apart.  
> It's making Rev *much* slower for me to program in than supposedly  
> more complicated languages like Python and C++.
>
> Anybody think this makes any sense? Any hints how to think about it  
> differently?
>
> Charles Hartman
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Oct 27 02:29:12 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 01:29:12 -0500
Subject: ANN: new free altPlugin: altMenuStack
In-Reply-To: <436072BE.9070807@chipp.com>
References: <436072BE.9070807@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <436073B8.1030702@chipp.com>

BTW, Mac users will want to put 17 in the 'move menu text right' setting.

Chipp Walters wrote:
> altMenuStack
> builder by Chipp Walters with stack scripts by Ken Ray



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Thu Oct 27 02:30:18 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:30:18 +0200
Subject: ANN: new free altPlugin: altMenuStack
In-Reply-To: <436072BE.9070807@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <OFEC7BE81B.6607A35E-ONC12570A7.0023A405-C12570A7.0023BBAC@deutsche-boerse.com>

Chipp, Ken

Good job. It's been a while i've been looking forward to make a stack like 
this...

It's not making the menu that's hard but making it look good like you 
always do ;)

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 27/10/2005 08:25:02:

> altMenuStack
> builder by Chipp Walters with stack scripts by Ken Ray
> 
> What does this do?
> 
> This free plugin creates a stack with images and menutext and scripts 
> which you can use as your own custom popup menu. It was created so that 
> popup menus can have images associated with them. Check it out!
> 
> It's also compatible with Altuit's altPlugin toolbar available at:
> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginCover/about.htm
> 
> As usual with any of our plugins, please back up your stacks! I use 
> altPluginArchive to do this. It also makes a serialized copy of a stack 
> each time it is invoked.
> 
> To try it just enter into your message box:
> go URL "http://www.gadgetplugins.com/altplugins/altMenuStack.rev"
> 
> Mucho thanks to Ken Ray for his generous offer of his great menuStack 
> scripts!!!
> 
> best,
> 
> Chipp Walters
> Altuit, inc



-----------------------------------------
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From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Oct 27 02:47:34 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 01:47:34 -0500
Subject: working method?
In-Reply-To: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
References: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <43607806.1020105@chipp.com>

Great thread.

I'd like to second Sarah's and Dan's recommendation..that is putting the 
scripts as high as possible in the message path (with buttons and 
controls at the top, not the bottom like Dan likes them;-)

But, I try and never script a mouseUp handler more than a few lines. For 
instance, I might have the script of button "Delete Row":

on mouseUp
   put altSelectedLine() into tLineNum
   deleteRow tLineNum
end mouseUp

Then I'd have also in the same button script:

function altSelectedLine
   put the hilitedlines of fld "test" into tLineNum
   if tLineNum is empty then
     answer "Please choose a row!"
     exit to top
   end if
   return tLineNum
end altSelectedLine

This function can be called by any button which needs to know the 
hilitedline number of fld "test." So, I leave it in this button's script 
until I create a new button "Edit Row", then I move it to the next 
level, the card script.

Also in this button's script:

on deleteRow pLineNum
   if pLineNum is "all" then
     put empty into fld "test"
   else
     delete line pLineNum of fld "test"
   end if
end deleteRow

Now, if later I need a 'stripAndship' handler for resetting my project 
to 'new', I might end up putting this 'deleteRow' handler in the stack 
script because it would be called as such:

on stripAndShip
    deleteRow "all"
    --> DO OTHER RESET STUFF
end stripAndShip

So, the idea is to keep the handlers and functions high up, and 
progressively demote them as you have more objects taking advantage of 
the same function.

HTH,
Chipp



From stevef at upnaway.com  Thu Oct 27 02:48:00 2005
From: stevef at upnaway.com (Flavel Steve)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:48:00 +0800
Subject: Programming tools philosophy.
In-Reply-To: <12850053653.20051026222437@ahsoftware.net>
References: <436021A8.8080000@tweedly.net>
	<12850053653.20051026222437@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <4AF48345-DDD9-44E4-94B4-1401A841E6F3@upnaway.com>






On 27/10/2005, at 1:24 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Alex-
>
> Wednesday, October 26, 2005, 5:39:04 PM, you wrote:
>
>
>> http://charlespetzold.com/etc/DoesVisualStudioRotTheMind.html
>>
>
> Dang. I started reading this right after the White Sox game and now I
> have to think about dinner, so I'll have to wait until tomorrow to see
> how I would code a solver for the Enigma puzzle.
>
> "What is the largest integer whose digits are all different (and do
> not include 0) that is divisible by each of its individual digits?"
The biggest I get is 864312, have not tested all yet.  12346789  
through 98764321 does not yield a result.

Steve Flavel


>
> That article is a *very* interesting read - I couldn't put it down.
> Petzold, of course, knows his stuff, and although I do disagree with
> him on the subject of Generated Code here I always find him worth
> reading.
>
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>



From dick.kriesel at mail.com  Thu Oct 27 02:57:39 2005
From: dick.kriesel at mail.com (Dick Kriesel)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:57:39 -0700
Subject: working method?
In-Reply-To: <BF85AF0C.2FA85%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BF85C873.145A2%dick.kriesel@mail.com>

On 10/26/05 10:09 PM, "Jim Ault" <JimAultWins at yahoo.com> wrote:

<snip>
> --All simple button mouseup scripts are identical
> on mouseUp
>   do (the short name of me)
> end mouseUp
> --set the LABEL of the btn for the user, the NAME for the program
> 
> on mouseDoubleDown
>   do (the short name of me &"down")
> end mouseDoubleDown
> 
> on mouseStillDown
>    do (the short name of me &"stilldown")
> end mouseStillDown
<snip>

You could avoid having separate scripts in all those simple buttons by
applying the library idea.  A library stack that you might call "simple
buttons.rev" could have handlers like the following that serve all those
buttons on all those cards in all those stacks:

on mouseUp
  if the script of the target is empty then -- simple buttons only
    do short name of the target
  end if
  pass mouseUp -- authors agree to pass system messages in libraries
end mouseUp

on mouseDoubleDown
  if the script of the target is empty then
    do short name of the target & "_" & param(0)
  end if
  pass mouseDoubleDown
end mouseDoubleDown

on mouseStillDown
  if the script of the target is empty then
    do the short name of the target & "_" & param(0)
  end if
  pass mouseStillDown
end mouseStillDown

The "library" working method can help reduce code redundancy and increase
code reuse.  And it packages related behavior to simplify not just finding
scripts but also upgrading them.

The library method works for application domain objects' behavior as well,
like for contacts, customers, and orders.

-- Dick




From dick.kriesel at mail.com  Thu Oct 27 03:07:06 2005
From: dick.kriesel at mail.com (Dick Kriesel)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 00:07:06 -0700
Subject: ANN: new free altPlugin: altMenuStack
In-Reply-To: <436072BE.9070807@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <BF85CAAA.145A7%dick.kriesel@mail.com>

On 10/26/05 11:25 PM, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:

> To try it just enter into your message box:
> go URL "http://www.gadgetplugins.com/altplugins/altMenuStack.rev"

"No such card"

Do I need another tip to use it on a Mac?

-- Dick




From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 03:11:09 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:11:09 +1000
Subject: working method?
In-Reply-To: <43607806.1020105@chipp.com>
References: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
	<43607806.1020105@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510270011i712b85acqb36d740ce615467b@mail.gmail.com>

> But, I try and never script a mouseUp handler more than a few lines. For
> instance, I might have the script of button "Delete Row":
>
> on mouseUp
>    put altSelectedLine() into tLineNum
>    deleteRow tLineNum
> end mouseUp
>
> Then I'd have also in the same button script:
>
> function altSelectedLine

... snip.

This is great advice here for several reasons.  Keeping the mouseUp
handler short and using sub-handlers makes it very easy to read. Also,
if you ever have to send a message to the button, it is much clearer
if your script says:
  send "deleteRow" to tbn "Delete"
than if it says:
  send "mouseUp' to btn "Delete"

It is easier to read and much easier to track in the list of pendingMessages.

However one of the things to emerge from this thread is that there are
widely differeing methods in use. They are all workable, so it's
really a matter of adopting a consistent approach that works for you,
so that the handlers are where you would expect them to be when you
come back to a project.

Cheers,
Sarah


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Oct 27 03:18:45 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 02:18:45 -0500
Subject: ANN: new free altPlugin: altMenuStack
In-Reply-To: <BF85CAAA.145A7%dick.kriesel@mail.com>
References: <BF85CAAA.145A7%dick.kriesel@mail.com>
Message-ID: <43607F55.70201@chipp.com>

Dick,

It appears that server JUST WENT DOWN. I'm online with someone trying to 
reset it now.

best,

Chipp

Dick Kriesel wrote:
> On 10/26/05 11:25 PM, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>To try it just enter into your message box:
>>go URL "http://www.gadgetplugins.com/altplugins/altMenuStack.rev"
> 
> 
> "No such card"
> 
> Do I need another tip to use it on a Mac?
> 
> -- Dick



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Oct 27 04:44:37 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:44:37 +0200
Subject: ANN: new FREE lib: mk_libsmil1, second try
Message-ID: <8EA6DD63-9D6A-448F-A900-71DEBF0F20C1@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

i recently uploaded a little stack to Rev-Online that will generate a  
SMIL file
on the fly that you can use with a player-object.

Since noone replied except my old chum Dave (hi Dave :-) i will give  
it a second try.
Maybe i should have called it ALT_libsmil, mk_WIKI_libsmil or  
something... ;-)



SMIL = Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language
Please use GOOGLE to learn more about SMIL.

User: klausimausi
Stack: mk_libsmil1

(Actually it is just one function and not a complete library, but  
"LIB" sounds
much more important... ;-)

This way you can generate ONE file to play x soundfiles in a row in a  
player
without having to check if one sound has finished to start the next  
one...

AND this will also workaround the fricking OS X bug where you cannot use
files with loooong filenames (> 32 chars) and/or accents/umlauts in  
the pathnames!
Maybe you remember the postings from yesterday.

Works on Mac and windows.
Since Linux/Unix does not support QuickTime (yet), sorry for that X- 
users :-/

Drop a line if you have some questions.

Enjoy!


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From Cubist at aol.com  Thu Oct 27 05:51:29 2005
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 05:51:29 EDT
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
Message-ID: <1d9.48054314.3091fd21@aol.com>

sez michaell at unimelb.edu.au:
>How can I prevent users from being able to make non-number values in 
>a field? Simply preventing non-numeric keys is not enough because I 
>need to prevent things that use characters that are in valid numbers 
>to make non-numbers like 1.2.3 or -1.2-3.
   Something like this might work:

local OldValue

on keyDown
  put me into OldValue
  send "CheckMe" to me in 10 milliseconds
  -- adjust the "10" value as necessary to get good results
  pass keyDown
end keyDown

on CheckMe
  if (the value of me) is not a number then
    beep
    put OldValue into me
  end if
end CheckMe

   The CheckMe handler can include whatever procedure you like for handling 
non-numeric input; I just went with 'beep' for audio feedback that Something Is 
Wrong, plus restoring the former (known to be numeric) value. Hope this 
helps...


From mlange at lexicall.org  Thu Oct 27 06:12:32 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:12:32 +0100
Subject: revdocs 
Message-ID: <79BBAE67-698D-420C-9E38-3F3EABECFC3A@lexicall.org>

Hi Jonathan,

> If you see my response to David's post - I basically said "sign me up,
> I'll contribute"

Great!!! :-))))

> So, if folks are willing to put time and energy into answering a  
> single question (which our list's history has proven) then there is  
> every possibility that they will be willing to put a very small  
> amount of time and energy into adding an answer (that they have  
> already answered on the list) to the wiki.

I am afraid, by experience, this doesn't work like that. If you are  
interested in reading more about motivation theories:
http://choo.fis.utoronto.ca/FIS/Courses/LIS1230/LIS1230sharma/ 
motive1.htm
http://choo.fis.utoronto.ca/FIS/Courses/LIS1230/LIS1230sharma/ 
motive4.htm
(I am a psychologist by background... I did industrial psychology in  
parallel with cognitive psychology during my undergrads).

It's probably easier to explain by giving you an insight on the way  
this would work for me. Paradoxically, I sometimes end up spending  
half an hour answering an email, going to rev, writing a short  
program, testing ideas... but I find 5 minutes of switching between  
applications too tedious and I don't do it. Psychologically speaking,  
I reach my goal (helping the person) with the email, I get my feel  
good dose for the day writing the email... I do have a wiki.... it's  
in an open browser window all day most of the time. It only takes me  
a alt-tab to go there... I don't do it. I don't have enough extra  
motivation to go to the wiki.

What would it be for persons who are required to connect to the wiki,  
register, type in an environment they are not familiar with? There is  
also the fact that you are obvioulsy an adventurous person. You like  
to do things just for the sake of learning. New environments are fun  
for you. That's great attitude... You will go far. Not everybody is  
like that. Adventurous persons are great starters. Less adventurous  
ones are great finishers. They are the ones to guarantee the quality  
of the material. We need everybody in the boat.

> It just has to become a habit - which means we have to gently pester
> each other with comments like "hey, great explanation, please put  
> it on
> the wiki" or some such thing.

This I did for 2-3 months on the education list.
http://revolution.lexicall.org/stacks_education.php?lastadded=added% 
20any%20time
http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php? 
page=TutorialsTeachers
http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php? 
page=RevolutionProjects

This toke me 1-2 hours a day, a lot of energy, a lot of commitment. I  
enjoyed it very much because people are so nice there. But do you  
have 1-2 hours a day, every day, to give to the community? I have  
been very busy over a month and stopped doing it. The education  
mailing list is about completely inactive now.

The lesson I have taken from this: If you have a structure which  
requires pestering, it will stop working when you don't have the time  
to pester anymore. Gently pestering isn't a good long term working  
model. This also has the inconvenient to start getting persons resent  
being pestered or resent having to pester.

If persons don't contribute that just means the structure in place  
doesn't make it easy enough. If the goal is to have them contribute,  
then let's reach that goal... but without the gently pestering being  
a requirement.

> Each contributor should be able to include a link to their website,  
> and
> if they contribute an original how-to article, then they should be  
> able
> to include a little bit of self-promotion along with their link.

Excellent suggestion! The important is to have one single portal with  
a complete index of the information available... but that doesn't  
mean that all information needs to be in the portal. We really don't  
want to do anything that could cause a negative impact for the  
commercial members of this list with this revdocs initiative. They  
have contributed a huge amount to this community.

> For those folks who teach revolution, having an online revdoc wiki  
> will be a big boon, so we might want to encourage them to  
> contribute as much as possible.

Students have more time than teachers, they are also more keen to  
show off than teachers. Shall we consider to make users' space  
possible for students? Under which condition (we for sure don't want  
them to use our site for storing their illegal mp3).

If we want the teachers to contribute on our website, we need to  
offer them support for their teaching activities on our website. For  
instance, we could without too much difficult set up a rev cgi on the  
website, following the model of the R statistical package.
http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/statistics/staff/academic/firth/ 
software/cgiwithr/
http://tolstoy.newcastle.edu.au/~rking/R/help/04/05/0319.html
his would have the additional advantage to let newcommers try out  
revolution directly on-line (without having to download it).

> Perhaps you might consider the concept of a 'vestibule' or  
> 'conditional
> acceptance' of material that everyone could view, but would realize  
> that it
> was possibly flawed or redundant.  The purpose would be to encourage
> contribution with fear of 'damaging' or accidentally introducing  
> mistakes
> that would affect others.

Thanks for reminding us of this (I believe this was briefly mentioned  
in reference to zope which allowed for that). We want this but this  
requires persons with moderator roles (to approve or contact the  
person to recommend to improve the material). Turning roles could be  
a way to spread the load (you get to be a moderator for 3 months,  
then another person, etc.)

> We all want to be correct and complete, but growing into and up with a
> language as rich at Transcript is daunting.  Those needing info  
> that has
> been reviewed could request viewing only that, but those willing to  
> learn by
> working with all of the material could choose to do so.

Sounds like a requirements we want to adopt.

> It may only be that material is labeled 'new', 'untested', or such,  
> but then
> the user community would have a better feel for the guidance.

David is an expert in trust metrics, I believe.
You will find information about this at:
http://www.advogato.org/trust-metric.html

(1) Trust of the information, as you suggest
(2) Trust of the person who posted this information
Advogato performs certification to three different levels:  
Apprentice, Journeyer, and Master. This is actually done by running  
the basic trust metric three times, using the "level" value in the  
certificate as a threshold. Thus, certification of Apprentices is  
computed using all certificates, while Master is computed using  
Master certificates only.

This also gives an extra incentive for the experts to do their bits  
to make sure they are ranked as masters on the wiki :-).

> Also, I would like to see a mod date or something, since the  
> internet is
> filled with data from 1999, but no way of knowing.

Yep.

Good brainstorming... anybody with other ideas?


Marielle
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Oct 27 06:19:11 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:19:11 +0100
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
In-Reply-To: <BF85BE96.2EA4B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF85BE96.2EA4B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <4360A99F.3070504@tweedly.net>

Ken Ray wrote:

>
>BTW: There was no reason to trap for backspace/delete as there isn't a way
>AFAIK to remove some or part of a number and have the end result *not* be a
>number.
>  
>
isNumber("-1")    true
isNumber("-")      false


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/149 - Release Date: 25/10/2005



From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Oct 27 06:46:47 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:46:47 +0100
Subject: working method?
In-Reply-To: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
References: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <4360B017.5060805@tweedly.net>

Charles Hartman wrote:

> I know this is going to sound like a *really* dumb question, if only  
> because it's so vague. But I'm wondering how people adjust their  
> workflow to the way Transcript's code is dispersed among many  
> separate scripts.
>
It's a great question.

> I keep getting lost. I keep forgetting where my code is that does  
> such-and-such. (Which script was that in?) So I keep losing track of  
> what I was about to do next, and my concentration falls apart. It's  
> making Rev *much* slower for me to program in than supposedly more  
> complicated languages like Python and C++.
>
> Anybody think this makes any sense? Any hints how to think about it  
> differently?

I think it makes a lot of sense. After 0 years of HC and 15 months or 
less of Rev, I've tried some of the things others have suggested, and 
still not found a combination of them that works well for me. I now have 
a few more to try ...

I think the only thing I've tried (and liked) that hasn't been mentioned 
was extending the naming convention (Hungarian-lite) to cover handlers
   c       prefix for card script handler
   s       prefix for stack script handlers
   lXyz  prefix for library scripts, in "library" Xyz.
Note in this instance "library" could include any (other) stack included 
by  "start using"

I have to admit that I like the result of using these naming conventions 
- but don't do it naturally when writing code, so I often have to go 
back and revise code to bring it back "into line".


But one mechanical aid is that in Constellation, while editing a script, 
right-clicking on a handler name in the script does a pretty good job of 
tracking that handler down wherever it is. This was one of the features 
that caught my eye in the Constellation description I read, and has 
indeed proven to be one of the many things I like about using 
Constellation.

I've sometimes found myself typing a handler name into a random script, 
right-clicking on it, then removing the name from that random script 
!!   I'm going to suggest to Jerry that he allow something like 
right-clicking in the "find" text box to improve the flow of this ....


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/149 - Release Date: 25/10/2005



From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Thu Oct 27 06:57:26 2005
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 05:57:26 -0500
Subject: working method?
In-Reply-To: <4360B017.5060805@tweedly.net>
References: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
	<4360B017.5060805@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <9B8FCCC0-75F1-4C0B-84C0-CA0C319ECD31@daniels-mara.com>

Alex,

I heard that! Great idea. Workflow is the whole issue actually.

I have the same trouble remembering where stuff is. Get's very  
complicated when you have libraries, frontscripts, backscripts. BTW,  
there's a preference in Transcript Gadget that lets you set just how  
far it should go to find the handler you're calling or sending to-- 
whether to look in the frontscript, etc.

Jerry

http://www.daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm
Scripts and properties in a tabbed editor!

On Oct 27, 2005, at 5:46 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Charles Hartman wrote:
>
>
>> I know this is going to sound like a *really* dumb question, if  
>> only  because it's so vague. But I'm wondering how people adjust  
>> their  workflow to the way Transcript's code is dispersed among  
>> many  separate scripts.
>>
>>
> It's a great question.
>
>
>> I keep getting lost. I keep forgetting where my code is that does   
>> such-and-such. (Which script was that in?) So I keep losing track  
>> of  what I was about to do next, and my concentration falls apart.  
>> It's  making Rev *much* slower for me to program in than  
>> supposedly more  complicated languages like Python and C++.
>>
>> Anybody think this makes any sense? Any hints how to think about  
>> it  differently?
>>
>
> I think it makes a lot of sense. After 0 years of HC and 15 months  
> or less of Rev, I've tried some of the things others have  
> suggested, and still not found a combination of them that works  
> well for me. I now have a few more to try ...
>
> I think the only thing I've tried (and liked) that hasn't been  
> mentioned was extending the naming convention (Hungarian-lite) to  
> cover handlers
>   c       prefix for card script handler
>   s       prefix for stack script handlers
>   lXyz  prefix for library scripts, in "library" Xyz.
> Note in this instance "library" could include any (other) stack  
> included by  "start using"
>
> I have to admit that I like the result of using these naming  
> conventions - but don't do it naturally when writing code, so I  
> often have to go back and revise code to bring it back "into line".
>
>
> But one mechanical aid is that in Constellation, while editing a  
> script, right-clicking on a handler name in the script does a  
> pretty good job of tracking that handler down wherever it is. This  
> was one of the features that caught my eye in the Constellation  
> description I read, and has indeed proven to be one of the many  
> things I like about using Constellation.
>
> I've sometimes found myself typing a handler name into a random  
> script, right-clicking on it, then removing the name from that  
> random script !!   I'm going to suggest to Jerry that he allow  
> something like right-clicking in the "find" text box to improve the  
> flow of this ....
>
>
> -- 
> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/149 - Release Date:  
> 25/10/2005
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From simplsol at aol.com  Thu Oct 27 07:14:22 2005
From: simplsol at aol.com (simplsol at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 07:14:22 -0400
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
In-Reply-To: <43603AB1.9010705@fourthworld.com>
References: <p05200f21bf85c9509506@[128.250.229.137]>	<3D43449F-8018-40CA-A1F7-21462A2FDE0A@writeme.com>	<8C7A8B44582E4A0-10A8-A223@MBLK-M03.sysops.aol.com>
	<43603AB1.9010705@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <8C7A8FEB7E6AFA8-1C4C-2A3D@MBLK-M09.sysops.aol.com>

Richard,
To make the world safe for Intel we could do the dirty work in a 
variable:

on closeField
put me into temp
add 0 to temp--of course any number would do (0.00001 or 10 or ?)
if the result is not empy
then answer "This is not a valid number:"
end closeField

Paul Looney

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:25:53 -0700
Subject: Re: Ensuring numeric input

   simplsol at aol.com wrote:?
 > Michael,?
  > You can also add zero to it; if it is a number then the result will 
be > empty.?
?
 But is zero counted as zero, or would it add 0.00001 in Intel chips??
?
 --?
 ?Richard Gaskin?
 ?Managing Editor, revJournal?
 ?_______________________________________________________?
 ?Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com?
 _______________________________________________?
 use-revolution mailing list?
 use-revolution at lists.runrev.com?
  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:?
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution?

    


From rgriffit at ctc.net  Thu Oct 27 07:28:55 2005
From: rgriffit at ctc.net (Raymond E. Griffith)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 07:28:55 -0400
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
In-Reply-To: <p05200f23bf85fe6906eb@[128.250.229.137]>
Message-ID: <BF863237.331E6%rgriffit@ctc.net>

> Thanks for the suggestions, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be
> anywhere near that easy. A user can put the insertion point within a
> number and so I need to check before the character is entered whether
> the value will be a number after the new character is added at the
> insertion point. The new character may be at the start of a numeric
> string, in the middle or at the end. I can't find an easy function
> that gives the insertion point relative to the selectedLine. Most of
> the complexity of my script is in deciding where the insertion will
> be made in the line of interest.
> 
> Still lacking a simple solution...

It depends on what you are looking for.

If you are looking for integer values, you can use "x is an integer",
otherwise you can use "x is a number" to check the result.

How about something like this? You can store a last legitimate value as a
custom property. If the user inputs something that doesn't fit, you can
simply replace it with the last correct value. This is not tested, but you
shouldn't have too many problems with it.

I didn't test the key pressed. I tested the result. Good luck.

On keyup whichkey
  put the selectedchunk into tselchunk
  if value(me) is a number then
    put value(me) into the storedvalue of me
    put value(me) into me
  else
    put the storedvalue of me into me
  end if
  select tselchunk
On keyup

Regards,

Raymond E. Griffith

> 
> At 8:56 PM -0500 26/10/05, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>> the isNumber of value
>> isNumber(value)
>> 
>> isNumber(8) -- returns true
>> isNumber(1+5) -- returns true
>> isNumber(foo) -- returns false
>> 
>> Dennis
> 
> Thanks, but the 'isnumber' function is the same as the 'is a number'
> that I used in my script.
> 
> 
> At 8:56 PM -0500 26/10/05, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>> You can also add zero to it; if it is a number then the result will be
>> empty.
>> Paul Looney
> 
> Thanks, but that is not functionally different from simply using 'is
> a number'. Or is it?
> 
> At 10:34 AM +1000 27/10/05, Michael J. Lew wrote:
>> How can I prevent users from being able to make non-number values in
>> a field? Simply preventing non-numeric keys is not enough because I
>> need to prevent things that use characters that are in valid numbers
>> to make non-numbers like 1.2.3 or -1.2-3.
>> 
>> I thought it would be relatively easy, but it might not be. Here is
>> the field script of a surprisingly complicated attempt:
>> 
>> on keydown thekey
>>   if theKey is in "0123456789-." then --may be an allowable input
>>     -- but I still need to check whether the result would be a valid number.
>>     put value(the selectedLine) into thisLine --current number
>>     put length(thisLine) into thisLineLen
>>     put the selectedCHunk into sc --returns character locations from
>> start of field
>>    
>>     --Need to find where the current line starts
>>     put offset(thisLine,me,min(0,word 2 of sc-thislinelen)) into
>> thisLineStart
>>     --The characters to skip bit is an attempt to prevent the offset function
>>     --  from returning a match to an earlier line in the field.
>>     --  It needs the min function to prevent negative values.
>>    
>>     --Now see if the input would make a non-numeric result
>>     --First find where the selection point is in the line
>>     put word 2 of sc +1 - thisLineStart into theSelectionStartChar
>>     put word 4 of sc +1 - thisLineStart into theSelectionEndChar
>>     --I don't know why I had to add one to the values...
>>     put thisLineStart & return & theSelectionStartChar && theSelectionEndCHar
>>     --Now test the input in the relevant place
>>     put theKey into char theSelectionStartChar to
>> theSelectionEndChar of thisLine
>>    
>>     --next line to help debugging
>>     --put  thisLine & return & thisLineStart & return &
>> theSelectionStartChar && theSelectionEndChar
>>    
>>     if thisLine & "0" is a number then --should be OK
>>       --Needs the appended zero to allow a line to start with a decimal
>> point.
>>       pass KeyDown
>>     end if
>>   end if
>> end keydown
>> 
>> 
>> It seems to work, but it's an extraordinarily long and winding road
>> to get to a simple end-point. What am I missing?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Michael
> 
> 




From dleyanna at rtl.org  Thu Oct 27 07:39:00 2005
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 07:39:00 -0400
Subject: Is there a userlist or a forum for Constellation?
In-Reply-To: <B99E2EF8-D91C-41C3-AB49-9C27DB8FBC9E@daniels-mara.com>
References: <2CE9BFC0-EC68-4290-ADF7-DD39FE1D84F7@pandora.be>
	<B99E2EF8-D91C-41C3-AB49-9C27DB8FBC9E@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <4360BC54.8040109@rtl.org>

This sounds like a great Gadget!

I think you might be interested in an idea that a company I buy from 
uses to get support for product development. The company produces titles 
for the "Libronix" ebook system. They employ a "community pricing" 
scheme to get support for production costs when adding a new title. 
Basically people tell them that they would be willing to pay for the 
product and when they have enough support to cover the costs they go 
into development and at the end of production those that had placed 
their bid get it "at cost" while anyone else will need to pay "retail" 
and the company just keeps building their catalog without having to risk 
direct investment. I could see this working very nicely.

For complete details on how they do this go here... 
http://www.logos.com/communitypricing/about

Dave

Jerry Daniels wrote:

> If you guys would like one, I could look into getting a listServ or  
> something going.
>
> The services like that are not inexpensive, so I'd have to look at  
> either doing my own majorDomo or writing a Gadget (Gadget Talk!).
>
> I'm open to ideas.
>
> Best,
>
> Jerry
>
> http://www.daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm
> Scripts and properties in a tabbed editor!
>
> On Oct 26, 2005, at 5:02 PM, Ton Kuypers wrote:
>
>> I really like this one, but is it fair to use this list for  
>> questions and remarks on Constellation?
>>
>> Of course I could use info at daniels-mara.com as stated on http:// 
>> www.daniels-mara.com, but then the suggestions or remars aren't  
>> visible to all other users...
>>
>> Any suggestions are welcome
>>
>>
>> Ton Kuypers
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Thu Oct 27 08:04:04 2005
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 07:04:04 -0500
Subject: Is there a userlist or a forum for Constellation?
In-Reply-To: <4360BC54.8040109@rtl.org>
References: <2CE9BFC0-EC68-4290-ADF7-DD39FE1D84F7@pandora.be>
	<B99E2EF8-D91C-41C3-AB49-9C27DB8FBC9E@daniels-mara.com>
	<4360BC54.8040109@rtl.org>
Message-ID: <A7886BD3-3515-44D7-9705-B568DAE81E00@daniels-mara.com>

Dave,

Interesting idea. And as the market grows this might work pretty  
well. But as it stands today, if I waited to cover my expenses with  
pricing, I'd never release a product!

-JD

On Oct 27, 2005, at 6:39 AM, Dave LeYanna wrote:

> This sounds like a great Gadget!
>
> I think you might be interested in an idea that a company I buy  
> from uses to get support for product development. The company  
> produces titles for the "Libronix" ebook system. They employ a  
> "community pricing" scheme to get support for production costs when  
> adding a new title. Basically people tell them that they would be  
> willing to pay for the product and when they have enough support to  
> cover the costs they go into development and at the end of  
> production those that had placed their bid get it "at cost" while  
> anyone else will need to pay "retail" and the company just keeps  
> building their catalog without having to risk direct investment. I  
> could see this working very nicely.
>
> For complete details on how they do this go here... http:// 
> www.logos.com/communitypricing/about
>
> Dave
>
> Jerry Daniels wrote:
>
>
>> If you guys would like one, I could look into getting a listServ  
>> or  something going.
>>
>> The services like that are not inexpensive, so I'd have to look  
>> at  either doing my own majorDomo or writing a Gadget (Gadget Talk!).
>>
>> I'm open to ideas.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> http://www.daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm
>> Scripts and properties in a tabbed editor!
>>
>> On Oct 26, 2005, at 5:02 PM, Ton Kuypers wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I really like this one, but is it fair to use this list for   
>>> questions and remarks on Constellation?
>>>
>>> Of course I could use info at daniels-mara.com as stated on http://  
>>> www.daniels-mara.com, but then the suggestions or remars aren't   
>>> visible to all other users...
>>>
>>> Any suggestions are welcome
>>>
>>>
>>> Ton Kuypers
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your   
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Thu Oct 27 08:06:05 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:06:05 -0400
Subject: working method?
In-Reply-To: <9B8FCCC0-75F1-4C0B-84C0-CA0C319ECD31@daniels-mara.com>
References: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
	<4360B017.5060805@tweedly.net>
	<9B8FCCC0-75F1-4C0B-84C0-CA0C319ECD31@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <4F30631D-420F-42C8-A8C8-E82ADC4C9FB5@conncoll.edu>

Thanks very much to everybody for the responses to my thrashing-in- 
the-brambles question.  I got up this morning and read 'em all -- but  
they're so thought-provoking that when I get to my office (where ink  
is free) I'm going to be totally retro and *print them out*, for  
study over meals.

Tons of great suggestions. And somewhere in there is the combination  
that will help me feel like a rational being while I code. Already,  
all this makes me think about how I *do* do it, which makes it easier  
to think about how I should & could.

Gratefully,
Charles Hartman



From dleyanna at rtl.org  Thu Oct 27 08:15:36 2005
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:15:36 -0400
Subject: Is there a userlist or a forum for Constellation?
In-Reply-To: <A7886BD3-3515-44D7-9705-B568DAE81E00@daniels-mara.com>
References: <2CE9BFC0-EC68-4290-ADF7-DD39FE1D84F7@pandora.be>	<B99E2EF8-D91C-41C3-AB49-9C27DB8FBC9E@daniels-mara.com>	<4360BC54.8040109@rtl.org>
	<A7886BD3-3515-44D7-9705-B568DAE81E00@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <4360C4E8.1000009@rtl.org>

<LOL> I was thinking about the smaller "utility" kind of things. Most of 
the publications the company I refered to would "retail" for $30 or so

Dave

Jerry Daniels wrote:

> Dave,
>
> Interesting idea. And as the market grows this might work pretty  
> well. But as it stands today, if I waited to cover my expenses with  
> pricing, I'd never release a product!
>
> -JD
>
> On Oct 27, 2005, at 6:39 AM, Dave LeYanna wrote:
>
>> This sounds like a great Gadget!
>>
>> I think you might be interested in an idea that a company I buy  from 
>> uses to get support for product development. The company  produces 
>> titles for the "Libronix" ebook system. They employ a  "community 
>> pricing" scheme to get support for production costs when  adding a 
>> new title. Basically people tell them that they would be  willing to 
>> pay for the product and when they have enough support to  cover the 
>> costs they go into development and at the end of  production those 
>> that had placed their bid get it "at cost" while  anyone else will 
>> need to pay "retail" and the company just keeps  building their 
>> catalog without having to risk direct investment. I  could see this 
>> working very nicely.
>>
>> For complete details on how they do this go here... http:// 
>> www.logos.com/communitypricing/about
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> Jerry Daniels wrote:
>>
>>
>>> If you guys would like one, I could look into getting a listServ  
>>> or  something going.
>>>
>>> The services like that are not inexpensive, so I'd have to look  at  
>>> either doing my own majorDomo or writing a Gadget (Gadget Talk!).
>>>
>>> I'm open to ideas.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Jerry
>>>
>>> http://www.daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm
>>> Scripts and properties in a tabbed editor!
>>>
>>> On Oct 26, 2005, at 5:02 PM, Ton Kuypers wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I really like this one, but is it fair to use this list for   
>>>> questions and remarks on Constellation?
>>>>
>>>> Of course I could use info at daniels-mara.com as stated on http://  
>>>> www.daniels-mara.com, but then the suggestions or remars aren't   
>>>> visible to all other users...
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions are welcome
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ton Kuypers
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your   
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From tekne at gruppoparentesi.it  Thu Oct 27 09:27:49 2005
From: tekne at gruppoparentesi.it (TEKNE informatica & comunicazione)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:27:49 +0200
Subject: import image from DB
Message-ID: <BF86A275.9A54%tekne@gruppoparentesi.it>

I?m using a trial version of revolution in order to test same features.
I have to import a picture in a image object from a DB field under MySQL.
If I use the query builder all works fine, but I want to use the database
library in order to have more flexibility.
I tried the following commands:

 put "SELECT immagine FROM foto" into query
  put revQueryDatabaseBLOB(dbID,query) into r
  revMoveToFirstRecord r
  put revDatabaseColumnNamed(r,"immagine") into  kk

but this: 
  put kk into image "nuova"
or this
  set the imageData of image "nuova" to "*b" & kk
don?t set correctly the image .

Can you help me?
Thank in advance.
-- 
Riccardo Linzitto
TEKNE informatica & comunicazione
gruppo parentesi
Via Cupoletti 1 - 97100 Ragusa
Pbx: Tel/fax +39.0932.68.16.00 Tel +39.0932.68.33.36
www.gruppoparentesi.it/tekne



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Thu Oct 27 09:34:07 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:34:07 -0400
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968331@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

.2 is a number
. is just a period, not a number

-2 is a number
- is just a minus sign, not a number



-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ray
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:16 AM
To: Use Revolution List
Subject: Re: Ensuring numeric input

On 10/26/05 10:58 PM, "Michael J. Lew" <michaell at unimelb.edu.au> wrote:

> Thanks for the suggestions, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be
> anywhere near that easy. A user can put the insertion point within a
> number and so I need to check before the character is entered whether
> the value will be a number after the new character is added at the
> insertion point. The new character may be at the start of a numeric
> string, in the middle or at the end. I can't find an easy function
> that gives the insertion point relative to the selectedLine. Most of
> the complexity of my script is in deciding where the insertion will
> be made in the line of interest.
> 
> Still lacking a simple solution...

Try this one (script of the field):

on keydown whichKey
    if whichKey is among the chars of "01234567890.-" then
        put me into tTemp
        put word 2 of the selectedChunk into sChar
        put word 4 of the selectedChunk into eChar
        if eChar > sChar then -- some text is selected
            delete char sChar to eChar of tTemp
        end if
        put whichKey after char eChar of tTemp
        if isNumber(tTemp) then pass keyDown
    end if
end keyDown

Basically it checks to see if the end product would end up with a
numeric
value, and if so, it will allow the keystroke to happen.

BTW: There was no reason to trap for backspace/delete as there isn't a
way
AFAIK to remove some or part of a number and have the end result *not*
be a
number.

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Thu Oct 27 09:47:37 2005
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:47:37 -0400
Subject: ANN: new FREE lib: mk_libsmil1, second try
Message-ID: <OF46EC7785.C9390261-ON852570A7.004AED88@sealedair.com>

> Hi friends,
> 
> i recently uploaded a little stack to Rev-Online that will generate a
> SMIL file on the fly that you can use with a player-object.
> 
> Since noone replied except my old chum Dave (hi Dave :-) i will give
> it a second try. Maybe i should have called it ALT_libsmil,
> mk_WIKI_libsmil or something... ;-)
> 
> 
> SMIL = Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language
> Please use GOOGLE to learn more about SMIL.

Hi Klaus,

I'm sorry you got so few replies for your fine contribution. I had never 
heard of the SMIL language until I took your advice and googled it. It 
sounds like a great way to build multimedia presentations (without 
Director). Integrating it into Revs built-in QuickTime support is makes it 
easily accessible via your function/notAlibrary. ;-)  Thanks for sharing 
this!

Best regards,
Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Thu Oct 27 09:51:42 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:51:42 -0400
Subject: revdocs 
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744653@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

I absolutely agree that the easier we make it to access and add to the
wiki, the more likely people are to use it. I guess all I meant to say
is that the rules that apply to most people do not necessarily apply as
strongly to this group... Rev users are more likely to go to extra
trouble than many other groups.


So, along those lines...


Some thoughts on making it easy and providing motivation:
1) Revdoc moderators, who also read the list a lot, can make it very
easy for folks who contribute a good suggestion on the list. The
moderator can look up the correct URL for a given wiki page for whatever
command or function is under discussion, then respond to the post on the
list with the link to that page, and a gentle suggestion like "Hey,
awesome advice, can you go here www.whateverTheURLis.org and add it to
the wiki. This means, the person being asked to contribute can just
click on the link, and voila, they have started.

2) Praise should be given on this list whenever someone adds something
useful to the wiki

3) The wiki itself should be as clean and easy to scan as possible. Some
folks have a penchant for messy, cluttered web pages, just packed with
all sorts of info. We need to make sure this wiki is very easy to scan,
so as not to turn people off when they first go to it.

This would be in addition to all the other good ideas that have been
suggested for making it user friendly.



From david at openpartnership.net  Thu Oct 27 10:15:36 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:15:36 +0200
Subject: revdocs
In-Reply-To: <00BA4156-CD78-4D55-A9E6-F0A2BB4AC90B@writeme.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744652@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<00BA4156-CD78-4D55-A9E6-F0A2BB4AC90B@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <2845708D-FED1-4DEF-A39F-D6AC9A6040F7@openpartnership.net>

On 27 Oct 2005, at 02:48, Dennis Brown wrote:

> Could you imagine posting a reply to this list with some formatting  
> information intended for the wiki --and the wiki (or a Rev program)  
> was monitoring all the posts here, looking for ones meant for it.   
> That would require little additional work by an experienced poster  
> to contribute to both at the same time.  A bit of up front planning  
> could make or break the effort.

A seperate email address - say wiki at revdocs.org would allow anyone  
who wanted to add comments to the wiki to simply cc that address when  
replying to the list.

A header could be used instead or in addition:

     - [function: checkInternet] Some commentrs on how to improve  
this function

Could act as a header to add the email to the comments or body of the  
wiki page called: "Function_CheckInternet" or similar.


From david at openpartnership.net  Thu Oct 27 10:17:46 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:17:46 +0200
Subject: revdocs
In-Reply-To: <BF85751F.2FA64%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
References: <BF85751F.2FA64%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0F2940CC-34F4-43AF-BB3C-6055739EAFCE@openpartnership.net>


On 27 Oct 2005, at 03:02, Jim Ault wrote:

> Also, I would like to see a mod date or something, since the  
> internet is
> filled with data from 1999, but no way of knowing.

I have time-stamped versions of handlers going back to 1988! Fun to  
read :)


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Oct 27 10:43:25 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:43:25 +0200
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968331@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <20051027140944.91CE3824F7F@mail.runrev.com>

don't forget many use commas for decimal points too... 
Tildes for 1'000's etc...

cheers
X

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Lynch, Jonathan
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:34 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: RE: Ensuring numeric input
> 
> .2 is a number
> . is just a period, not a number
> 
> -2 is a number
> - is just a minus sign, not a number
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ray
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:16 AM
> To: Use Revolution List
> Subject: Re: Ensuring numeric input
> 
> On 10/26/05 10:58 PM, "Michael J. Lew" 
> <michaell at unimelb.edu.au> wrote:
> 
> > Thanks for the suggestions, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be 
> > anywhere near that easy. A user can put the insertion point 
> within a 
> > number and so I need to check before the character is 
> entered whether 
> > the value will be a number after the new character is added at the 
> > insertion point. The new character may be at the start of a numeric 
> > string, in the middle or at the end. I can't find an easy function 
> > that gives the insertion point relative to the 
> selectedLine. Most of 
> > the complexity of my script is in deciding where the 
> insertion will be 
> > made in the line of interest.
> > 
> > Still lacking a simple solution...
> 
> Try this one (script of the field):
> 
> on keydown whichKey
>     if whichKey is among the chars of "01234567890.-" then
>         put me into tTemp
>         put word 2 of the selectedChunk into sChar
>         put word 4 of the selectedChunk into eChar
>         if eChar > sChar then -- some text is selected
>             delete char sChar to eChar of tTemp
>         end if
>         put whichKey after char eChar of tTemp
>         if isNumber(tTemp) then pass keyDown
>     end if
> end keyDown
> 
> Basically it checks to see if the end product would end up 
> with a numeric value, and if so, it will allow the keystroke 
> to happen.
> 
> BTW: There was no reason to trap for backspace/delete as 
> there isn't a way AFAIK to remove some or part of a number 
> and have the end result *not* be a number.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Oct 27 10:47:04 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:47:04 +0200
Subject: ANN: new FREE lib: mk_libsmil1, second try
In-Reply-To: <OF46EC7785.C9390261-ON852570A7.004AED88@sealedair.com>
References: <OF46EC7785.C9390261-ON852570A7.004AED88@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <ED834235-4A04-4767-9267-AFEECAE4B373@major-k.de>

Hi Roger,

>> Hi friends,
>>
>> i recently uploaded a little stack to Rev-Online that will generate a
>> SMIL file on the fly that you can use with a player-object.
>>
>> Since noone replied except my old chum Dave (hi Dave :-) i will give
>> it a second try. Maybe i should have called it ALT_libsmil,
>> mk_WIKI_libsmil or something... ;-)
>>
>> SMIL = Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language
>> Please use GOOGLE to learn more about SMIL.
>>
> Hi Klaus,
>
> I'm sorry you got so few replies for your fine contribution.

well, looks like it got lost a bit in the heavy and partly
"academic" discussions here on the list ;-)

> I had never
> heard of the SMIL language until I took your advice and googled it.

I am sure there are a whole lot more of very nice things/techniques  
waiting
to be discovered :-)

Since i am very interested in QT and multimedia per se I once discovered
QT SMIL and started to experiment, the docs are VERY sparse and  
distributed
in tiny bits all over the net.

I will keep on investigating SMIL and hope to add more features to  
the mk_libsmil1
once i discovered tehm ;-)

> It sounds like a great way to build multimedia presentations (without
> Director). Integrating it into Revs built-in QuickTime support is  
> makes it
> easily accessible via your function/notAlibrary. ;-)

:-)

Although Quicktime only supports a small part of the SMIL specifications
it is yet a very powerful addition, that's right.

> Thanks for sharing this!

You're very welcome!

> Best regards,
> Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>

Regards from a warm (23? C today here!) germany

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Oct 27 10:47:53 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:47:53 -0400
Subject: ANN: new FREE lib: mk_libsmil1, second try
In-Reply-To: <8EA6DD63-9D6A-448F-A900-71DEBF0F20C1@major-k.de>
References: <8EA6DD63-9D6A-448F-A900-71DEBF0F20C1@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <0ee739ffb054d4ce981db4fc4043b9a7@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 27, 2005, at 4:44 AM, Klaus Major wrote:

> This way you can generate ONE file to play x soundfiles in a row in a 
> player
> without having to check if one sound has finished to start the next 
> one...

Hi Klaus,

You specified this as for sound files... not movies too?

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Oct 27 10:54:23 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:54:23 +0200
Subject: ANN: new FREE lib: mk_libsmil1, second try
In-Reply-To: <0ee739ffb054d4ce981db4fc4043b9a7@rpsystems.net>
References: <8EA6DD63-9D6A-448F-A900-71DEBF0F20C1@major-k.de>
	<0ee739ffb054d4ce981db4fc4043b9a7@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <1F5B2E88-EB48-4F49-8761-E38ACD0F04A7@major-k.de>

Hi Troy,

> On Oct 27, 2005, at 4:44 AM, Klaus Major wrote:
>> This way you can generate ONE file to play x soundfiles in a row  
>> in a player
>> without having to check if one sound has finished to start the  
>> next one...
>>
> Hi Klaus,
>
> You specified this as for sound files... not movies too?

sorry, only soundfiles in this version.
Although SMIL does support movies and fimages, too!

I will keep on experimenting, still know to few about SMIL, and hope  
to come
up with some features for movies, too.

See my last post...

> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From david at openpartnership.net  Thu Oct 27 11:06:10 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:06:10 +0200
Subject: Is there a userlist or a forum for Constellation?
In-Reply-To: <4360BC54.8040109@rtl.org>
References: <2CE9BFC0-EC68-4290-ADF7-DD39FE1D84F7@pandora.be>
	<B99E2EF8-D91C-41C3-AB49-9C27DB8FBC9E@daniels-mara.com>
	<4360BC54.8040109@rtl.org>
Message-ID: <6A009633-0C1E-439F-B065-38B7993DF27C@openpartnership.net>

This is very close to the RansomWare idea:

On 27 Oct 2005, at 13:39, Dave LeYanna wrote:

> I think you might be interested in an idea that a company I buy  
> from uses to get support for product development. The company  
> produces titles for the "Libronix" ebook system. They employ a  
> "community pricing" scheme to get support for production costs when  
> adding a new title. Basically people tell them that they would be  
> willing to pay for the product and when they have enough support to  
> cover the costs they go into development and at the end of  
> production those that had placed their bid get it "at cost" while  
> anyone else will need to pay "retail" and the company just keeps  
> building their catalog without having to risk direct investment. I  
> could see this working very nicely.

For me RansomWare requires too much commitment while the "promise to  
buy" strategy obove a little too weak - both good. Using a currency  
that you can use to get services from other developers but that  
doesn't cost you real cash is an interesting middle ground.

From heather at runrev.com  Thu Oct 27 11:06:16 2005
From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Nagey)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:06:16 +0100
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
Message-ID: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>

Dear list members,

Regarding the recent debate about extracting the current revdocs and 
putting them on a public wiki. We have discussed this here, and we feel 
that at this moment in time such effort would be largely wasted, as the 
docs are under active review right now. However at a later date we plan 
to make space available on our server for a documentation wiki, if 
people are still keen to work on that.

If and when a wiki is set up, it will be necessary to have a copyright 
notice incorporated, as the documentation is copyright Runtime 
Revolution.

Warm Regards,

Heather

Heather Nagey, Customer Support Manager
Runtime Revolution Ltd
www.runrev.com



From johnpatten at mac.com  Thu Oct 27 11:15:54 2005
From: johnpatten at mac.com (John Patten)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:15:54 -0700
Subject: OpenSockets and multiple stacks...?
Message-ID: <12398474.1130426154520.JavaMail.johnpatten@mac.com>

Thanks List for all the good suggestions!

The socket calls are all new to me, so I'm still digesting the examples in the user directory. I believe the idea of having student stacks subscribe/connect to the teachers stack by creating a connection and then collecting student (stack) IP makes sense. I'll work from that angle.

I had a couple questions...

- When the a stack makes a connection to another stack, does the socket number/ID stay with the stack connection for the duration of the connection? 


- What actions will terminate a connection between two stacks?

- When testing scripts, it appears that Rev holds on to certain previous actions. For example, I have been going back and forth between pairs of stack examples from the user library, and my own. Throwing around open sockets, connections, etc. scripts and changing between stacks appears to mix things up a bit. Is there a command I can throw into the msg box, "purge memory?" , that would prevent me from quitting and relaunching Rev when I'm testing scripts?

- Anyone have other examples of sockets in action, Alex Tweedly's are fantastic in the user directory, but it's always nice to see how other implementations!

Thank You All!

John Patten



From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Oct 27 11:38:40 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:38:40 -0700
Subject: working method?
In-Reply-To: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
References: <ACC97AED-257C-4F9F-BC63-406E5D72EE2B@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20051027080949.01f113a0@pop3.pon.net>

Hello Charles,

>I'm wondering how people adjust their
>workflow to the way Transcript's code is dispersed among many
>separate scripts.

First, let me note that for moi personally, the greatest difficulty in 
mastering xTalk scripting had more to do with understanding what handlers 
were triggering other handlers than where to find the handler to edit 
it.  Taking into account that one program statement (eg: "go next card") 
can result in the running of several different handlers (eg: closeField, 
closeCard, preopenCard, openCard), some of which may reside in scripts of 
different objects, required the most effort in my initial learning 
period.  I believe an understanding of the message hierarchy should preceed 
a decision regarding script location.

That being said, I too find myself asking "where did I place that handler?" 
from time to time...ergo I have not found the perfect answer.  Here are my 
thoughts:

* Handlers, images,and other resources shared by multiple stacks/apps 
should go in one or more library stacks.

* Handlers specific to a control should reside in that control.

* For grouped controls, I prefer one mouseUp handler in the group script as 
opposed to individual mouseUp handlers in each control in the group.

* In some cases (eg: library stacks), preOpenStack and openStack handlers 
should be placed in the script of the first card instead of the stack 
script, so they run when the stack is actually opened but not when one 
starts using it.

* In some cases it makes sense to have handlers with the same name located 
at different levels of the message hierarchy and have the lower-level 
handler pass the message to a general routine after doing work specific to 
the lower-level control.

Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
  Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

  from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) 



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 27 11:41:14 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:41:14 -0700
Subject: revdocs 
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744653@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <BF86432A.2FAFC%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Good thread and I am sure that ironing out the wrinkles will be a smooth
process... when we finally get down to just wrinkles :-)


On 10/27/05 6:51 AM, "Lynch, Jonathan" <bnz2 at cdc.gov> wrote:
> I absolutely agree that the easier we make it to access and add to the
> wiki, the more likely people are to use it. ... Rev users are more likely to
>go to extra trouble than many other groups.

Perhaps it might be another avenue to have list members like me 'opt in'
where we give permission to have any of our serious post material migrated
to the wiki, and thus I know that passively I may be contributing content.

This is important to me, since I am very busy with 3 upcoming projects, but
would try to prep my posts so that the wiki could include them and not
require much editing.  Then once a week, instead of spending time with
family, someone(s) could Hoover the list for material that fits.

Suggestion:  all I would have to do is
Hi, good ideas, <wiki>material</wiki>joke, goodbye

I have to say that making a separate step/contribution to the wiki is not
attractive since I would have to learn yet-another
(convention/format/courtesy/rating system).  It would be kind of like
editing an encyclopedia and a tech manual in the same document space, which
requires new rules.

The reason I am taking the time to write this email, mainly, is that I am
just starting my day, first cup of coffee,  and my programming thoughts have
not taken over my body yet.  When that happens, even lunch today will be an
unwelcome interruption.

Hope this wiki animal takes life and prospers.  Light, fast, agile... and
not become a pachyderm with only one small tender crying in the dark.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 10/27/05 6:51 AM, "Lynch, Jonathan" <bnz2 at cdc.gov> wrote:

> I absolutely agree that the easier we make it to access and add to the
> wiki, the more likely people are to use it. I guess all I meant to say
> is that the rules that apply to most people do not necessarily apply as
> strongly to this group... Rev users are more likely to go to extra
> trouble than many other groups.
> 
> 
> So, along those lines...
> 
> 
> Some thoughts on making it easy and providing motivation:
> 1) Revdoc moderators, who also read the list a lot, can make it very
> easy for folks who contribute a good suggestion on the list. The
> moderator can look up the correct URL for a given wiki page for whatever
> command or function is under discussion, then respond to the post on the
> list with the link to that page, and a gentle suggestion like "Hey,
> awesome advice, can you go here www.whateverTheURLis.org and add it to
> the wiki. This means, the person being asked to contribute can just
> click on the link, and voila, they have started.
> 
> 2) Praise should be given on this list whenever someone adds something
> useful to the wiki
> 
> 3) The wiki itself should be as clean and easy to scan as possible. Some
> folks have a penchant for messy, cluttered web pages, just packed with
> all sorts of info. We need to make sure this wiki is very easy to scan,
> so as not to turn people off when they first go to it.
> 
> This would be in addition to all the other good ideas that have been
> suggested for making it user friendly.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Oct 27 11:49:59 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:49:59 -0700
Subject: Programming tools philosophy.
In-Reply-To: <4AF48345-DDD9-44E4-94B4-1401A841E6F3@upnaway.com>
References: <436021A8.8080000@tweedly.net>
	<12850053653.20051026222437@ahsoftware.net>
	<4AF48345-DDD9-44E4-94B4-1401A841E6F3@upnaway.com>
Message-ID: <302206713.20051027084959@ahsoftware.net>

Steve-

Wednesday, October 26, 2005, 11:48:00 PM, you wrote:

>> "What is the largest integer whose digits are all different (and do
>> not include 0) that is divisible by each of its individual digits?"
> The biggest I get is 864312, have not tested all yet.  12346789  
> through 98764321 does not yield a result.

Thanks, but I'm actually more interested in the program that finds the
answer than in the result itself. Can you show your work?

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct 27 11:49:42 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:49:42 -0500
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
In-Reply-To: <4360A99F.3070504@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <BF866146.2EAB7%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/27/05 5:19 AM, "Alex Tweedly" <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:

> Ken Ray wrote:
> 
>> 
>> BTW: There was no reason to trap for backspace/delete as there isn't a way
>> AFAIK to remove some or part of a number and have the end result *not* be a
>> number.
>>  
>> 
> isNumber("-1")    true
> isNumber("-")      false
> 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct 27 11:50:13 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:50:13 -0500
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
In-Reply-To: <4360A99F.3070504@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <BF866165.2EAB9%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/27/05 5:19 AM, "Alex Tweedly" <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:

> Ken Ray wrote:
> 
>> 
>> BTW: There was no reason to trap for backspace/delete as there isn't a way
>> AFAIK to remove some or part of a number and have the end result *not* be a
>> number.
>>  
>> 
> isNumber("-1")    true
> isNumber("-")      false
> 

You're right! Good catch, Alex!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Oct 27 11:52:19 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:52:19 -0700
Subject: OpenSockets and multiple stacks...?
In-Reply-To: <12398474.1130426154520.JavaMail.johnpatten@mac.com>
References: <12398474.1130426154520.JavaMail.johnpatten@mac.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20051027084216.01f31460@pop3.pon.net>

Hi John,

>- Anyone have other examples of sockets in action,

The revIPC group's libSTAMP/libIPC libraries, 
<revolution_ipc at yahoogroups.com> and SDB, <http://wecode/serendipity/>, 
which uses same.

Rob Cozens, CCW
Serendipity Software Company

Vive R Revolution! 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Oct 27 11:53:00 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:53:00 -0500
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968331@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <BF86620C.2EABB%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/27/05 8:34 AM, "Lynch, Jonathan" <bnz2 at cdc.gov> wrote:

> .2 is a number
> . is just a period, not a number
> 
> -2 is a number
> - is just a minus sign, not a number

True... but that raises another UI issue - if the field has ".2" in it and
someone attempts to delete the "2", do we keep the "." by itself in the
field, hoping someone will type another number and then tray it on
closeField to provide an alert? Or do we remove the decimal point as well to
empty the field? And if we *do* remove the decimal, how would that be
different from having an empty field and typing a decimal point to start a
decimal number; before the actual number is typed, there's just a decimal
point in the field...

Hmm...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 27 12:02:01 2005
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:02:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug while importing images larger than 16 MB
In-Reply-To: <20051027144614.4F2A28253DC@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20051027160202.21004.qmail@web40521.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Developers,


Recently, while working in an interface
for the command-line bitmap tracing utility, 
Potrace and the bitmap processing utility,
mkBitmap, i found two recurrent bugs that
i want you confirm in your development
environment.

Recipe 1:
import an image that uncompressed
show a size of more than 16.7 MB.

For example, i received this 62k png
that grows to 22 MB when decompressed:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/spoof_eBayMessage.png

When i set the filename of an image object
to this png or any other image, bigguer than 16.7 MB,
the image bleeds off the bounds of the container,
and sometimes redraw itself within other palettes
or stack opened at the moment.

Sometimes, the Developer environment crash...

Is this somehow related to the limit of
4096 x 4096 pixels for an image, in Mac OS X?
Notice, i'm working in Windows, so i thought that
this limitation was Mac OS X only...

By the way, i have posted these screenshots in
my yahoo site for the Potrace Interface.
i'm using the metalic look and interface elements
created by  Chipp Walters for the example stack 
posted in his website:

<http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/Potrace_Interface1.jpg>
<http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/Potrace_Interface2.jpg>
<http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/Potrace_Interface3.jpg>
<http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/Potrace_Interfac.jpg>
<http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/homer.EPS>






Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Thu Oct 27 12:12:57 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:12:57 -0400
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968337@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

I had to deal with this issue in my Task Mage app. When people enter
dates into the date column, or times into the time column, it has to be
a real date or real time, or else it will cause problems.

I addressed this in two ways. In the keydown handler I only allow
appropriate characters.

In the exitfield handler, the script tries to interpret what they wrote
and make it conform to the proper date or time format. If it does not
conform, the field is reverted to empty.

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ray
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:53 AM
To: Use Revolution List
Subject: Re: Ensuring numeric input

On 10/27/05 8:34 AM, "Lynch, Jonathan" <bnz2 at cdc.gov> wrote:

> .2 is a number
> . is just a period, not a number
> 
> -2 is a number
> - is just a minus sign, not a number

True... but that raises another UI issue - if the field has ".2" in it
and
someone attempts to delete the "2", do we keep the "." by itself in the
field, hoping someone will type another number and then tray it on
closeField to provide an alert? Or do we remove the decimal point as
well to
empty the field? And if we *do* remove the decimal, how would that be
different from having an empty field and typing a decimal point to start
a
decimal number; before the actual number is typed, there's just a
decimal
point in the field...

Hmm...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
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From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Thu Oct 27 12:26:01 2005
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:26:01 +0200
Subject: (Pre) ANN: Pattern Toolkit Gallery -- 21st century plaids
Message-ID: <4360FF99.7070107@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005, Erik Hansen <erikhans08 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> beautiful 21st century plaids
> reflecting the Scottish origin of Rev.
>
> Erik Hansen



Hi Erik and all,

Almost correct:
The Scottish origin needs to be traced back to "Scott" Raney, the 
inventor of Metacard, which is the predecessor and backbone of 
Revolution. You probably know this. Scott, however, is living (or had 
lived) in Boulder, Colorado (see also: website <www.metacard.com>).

By the way, creating (basic) Scottish plaids is a two-click affair with 
my forthcoming toolkit:

Button 1 produces diagonal lines with color increments for a given 
length of color-point sequences with adjacent vertical and horizontal 
color points remaining empty. Start and incremental color values and the 
length of the sequences are randomly generated or can be pre-set by the 
user through sliders.

Button 2 flips the generated pattern horizontally and super-imposes it 
on the original one in such a way that if fits into the "holes" of the 
first pattern.

Viol?,  there's the Scottish plaid!

To script such algorithms would be a good assignment for a 
medium-advanced computer class.

Then there is a wide variety of ways to embellish the basic Scottish 
plaid or other kinds of patterns, e.g. you could produce a gray-scale 
gradient (one-directional or multi-directional) with the toolkit and 
again superimpose it over the basic plaid to achieve slight changes of 
colors in the plaid from left to right, top to bottom or other directions.-

Working now and then on the toolkit gives me a nice break away from 
other obligations. At present there is an examination period at the 
beginning of the winter semester for three weeks, and I am brooding over 
voluminous examination papers like on "Progressive Education" (whatever 
that means), "Charter Schools", "Teacher education in the U.S.A" (a 
topic vividly discussed among my American colleagues and in U.S. 
literature: whether such a type of education exists or rather should be 
introduced in the near future) etc. or -  for that matter - in the 
section of technology about "Structures of data systems and data mining".

After all, one of my students, who is due for one of his three one-hour 
oral parts of his M.A. examination next Monday, has chosen a comparison 
of Flash and Transcript as one of his three topics for this section of 
the examination. He had participated in one of my workshop-seminars 
still mainly based on Metacard (another hands-on workshop for the 
duration of the semester is starting next week) and produced two 
content-wise identical applications, first one with Metacard, then - 
under pressure from a colleague for whom he later worked as a research 
assistant and who insisted on a "real programming language" - in Flash. 
Needless to say which was the easier part to program, but there are some 
advantages in the visual appearance of the Flash application.
I hope I can persuade him to present his two applications on my website, 
so we would have another actual example to compare Transcript and Flash.

So far,

best regards,

Wilhelm Sanke, Prof.
<http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Thu Oct 27 12:09:57 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:09:57 -0400
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

Hi Heather...

How long before the new documentation is available?

How long before a RunRev sponsored revdoc wiki would be available?

If we get impatient, and want to create our own, is that permitted?


One possibility is that if we create a revdoc wiki with the new
documentation, then when RunRev is ready to create their own wiki, the
user-created wiki could be ported to RunRev for your use. 

Take care,

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Heather
Nagey
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:06 AM
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki

Dear list members,

Regarding the recent debate about extracting the current revdocs and 
putting them on a public wiki. We have discussed this here, and we feel 
that at this moment in time such effort would be largely wasted, as the 
docs are under active review right now. However at a later date we plan 
to make space available on our server for a documentation wiki, if 
people are still keen to work on that.

If and when a wiki is set up, it will be necessary to have a copyright 
notice incorporated, as the documentation is copyright Runtime 
Revolution.

Warm Regards,

Heather

Heather Nagey, Customer Support Manager
Runtime Revolution Ltd
www.runrev.com

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From david at openpartnership.net  Thu Oct 27 12:42:01 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:42:01 +0200
Subject: revdocs 
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744653@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744653@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <5C6B20ED-F3FA-403D-B89A-40D6D2260632@openpartnership.net>

On 27 Oct 2005, at 15:51, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

> Some thoughts on making it easy and providing motivation:
> 1) Revdoc moderators, who also read the list a lot, can make it very
> easy for folks who contribute a good suggestion on the list. The
> moderator can look up the correct URL for a given wiki page for  
> whatever
> command or function is under discussion, then respond to the post  
> on the
> list with the link to that page, and a gentle suggestion like "Hey,
> awesome advice, can you go here www.whateverTheURLis.org and add it to
> the wiki. This means, the person being asked to contribute can just
> click on the link, and voila, they have started.

Saves time - point to a FAQ - questions are always posted many times  
over.

> 2) Praise should be given on this list whenever someone adds something
> useful to the wiki
>
> 3) The wiki itself should be as clean and easy to scan as possible.  
> Some
> folks have a penchant for messy, cluttered web pages, just packed with
> all sorts of info. We need to make sure this wiki is very easy to  
> scan,
> so as not to turn people off when they first go to it.
>
> This would be in addition to all the other good ideas that have been
> suggested for making it user friendly.

Agreed.

At the risk of being completely undemocratic - and more in the just- 
go-ahead-and-do-it philosophy - I just registered the domains:

     - www.revdocs.org / net / com

I suggest we point them all at the same place as people often forget  
which ending to use. If a better name comes up or is suggested fine -  
no big loss :)



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Oct 27 12:44:34 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:44:34 -0700
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968337@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <BF865202.23B4B%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Lynch, Jonathan  wrote:

>> .2 is a number
>> . is just a period, not a number
>> 
>> -2 is a number
>> - is just a minus sign, not a number
> 
> True... but that raises another UI issue - if the field has ".2" in it
> and
> someone attempts to delete the "2", do we keep the "." by itself in the
> field, hoping someone will type another number and then tray it on
> closeField to provide an alert? Or do we remove the decimal point as
> well to
> empty the field? And if we *do* remove the decimal, how would that be
> different from having an empty field and typing a decimal point to start
> a
> decimal number; before the actual number is typed, there's just a
> decimal
> point in the field...

I'm wondering if all this character checking is working too hard.

For reference, I just looked at two higher end graphics apps: Photoshop and
Freehand.  Photoshop simply evaluates the characters in the field on
enter/return and throw up a dialog if it finds a non-number.  Freehand
(interestingly) replaces non-numeric values with the smallest acceptable
numeric value (0.000001).

Perhaps this could be an option.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Oct 27 12:54:56 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:54:56 -0500
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
In-Reply-To: <BF86620C.2EABB%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF86620C.2EABB%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <43610660.5010907@hyperactivesw.com>

Ken Ray wrote:
> On 10/27/05 8:34 AM, "Lynch, Jonathan" <bnz2 at cdc.gov> wrote:
> 
> 
>>.2 is a number
>>. is just a period, not a number
>>
>>-2 is a number
>>- is just a minus sign, not a number
> 
> 
> True... but that raises another UI issue - if the field has ".2" in it and
> someone attempts to delete the "2", do we keep the "." by itself in the
> field, hoping someone will type another number and then tray it on
> closeField to provide an alert? Or do we remove the decimal point as well to
> empty the field? And if we *do* remove the decimal, how would that be
> different from having an empty field and typing a decimal point to start a
> decimal number; before the actual number is typed, there's just a decimal
> point in the field...
> 
> Hmm...

Which is why most of us, I think, check the entry on closefield rather 
than dynamically. If you do that, none of the other problems come up.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From david at openpartnership.net  Thu Oct 27 12:57:07 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:57:07 +0200
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <7661C0B6-79F4-4030-8A94-3C622C8A222A@openpartnership.net>

On 27 Oct 2005, at 18:09, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

> One possibility is that if we create a revdoc wiki with the new
> documentation, then when RunRev is ready to create their own wiki, the
> user-created wiki could be ported to RunRev for your use.

Sounds good to me. Rev Docs are fine and available locally - it's the  
additional stuff and open source collaborative environment that makes  
this useful - not replicating the existing docs.

> If and when a wiki is set up, it will be necessary to have a copyright
> notice incorporated, as the documentation is copyright Runtime
> Revolution.
>
> Warm Regards,
>
> Heather
>
> Heather Nagey, Customer Support Manager
> Runtime Revolution Ltd
> www.runrev.com

How about the French and German versions of the Docs? Or perhaps  
Japanese?

I do wish you guys would have a clear and positive open source  
strategy which would allow the community to release some of it's  
latent potential. License your docs under a Creative Commons (non- 
commercial license) would enable others to contribute without  
enabling them to use the material commercially. The community here is  
an asset you should really learn to make more use of. Holding on to  
non-essential copyright and in so doing holding back valuable  
contributions is plain daft.

Chinese anyone?



From see3d at writeme.com  Thu Oct 27 13:03:32 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:03:32 -0400
Subject: ANN: new free altPlugin: altMenuStack
In-Reply-To: <436073B8.1030702@chipp.com>
References: <436072BE.9070807@chipp.com> <436073B8.1030702@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <9B394320-7710-4D43-8D60-746632E447F8@writeme.com>

Chipp,

The default 22 worked on my 10.4 system, but 17 caused overlapping of  
the image and text.

Dennis

On Oct 27, 2005, at 2:29 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> BTW, Mac users will want to put 17 in the 'move menu text right'  
> setting.
>
> Chipp Walters wrote:
>
>> altMenuStack
>> builder by Chipp Walters with stack scripts by Ken Ray
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From anderson at avinc.com  Thu Oct 27 13:17:37 2005
From: anderson at avinc.com (David Anderson)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:17:37 -0700
Subject: Rev App as Windows Service
Message-ID: <e299c917f4ee4e423fc7144b58662755@avinc.com>

Hello All

If you install a rev app as a service with sc.exe. ie.  "sc create 
serviceName binPath=pathToRevApp start=auto"
The app starts as expected, but then the system expects to get 
something back from the rev app, times out and terminates the rev app.

I know about "instsrv serviceName srvany" and then going into the 
registry and setting up the parameters to point to the rev app.

I was hoping someone knew how to set up the rev app to act like a 
service and give the system what it is looking for, so that all that is 
needed is to run sc and not worry about having "instsrv" or "srvany" on 
the machine.

Any one have any answers?

Thanks,
Dave Anderson



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 27 13:29:25 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:29:25 -0700
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
In-Reply-To: <BF86620C.2EABB%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <BF865C85.2FB3D%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Yep, Which came first.. the decimal or the digit,
or the comma
or the space to indicate the end of the word
or multiple numbers
or dollar signs

Perhaps 'hinting' by inserting a '?' as a place holder until a valid number
is found.  Rather complicated when dealing with humans, eh?

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 10/27/05 8:53 AM, "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

> On 10/27/05 8:34 AM, "Lynch, Jonathan" <bnz2 at cdc.gov> wrote:
> 
>> .2 is a number
>> . is just a period, not a number
>> 
>> -2 is a number
>> - is just a minus sign, not a number
> 
> True... but that raises another UI issue - if the field has ".2" in it and
> someone attempts to delete the "2", do we keep the "." by itself in the
> field, hoping someone will type another number and then tray it on
> closeField to provide an alert? Or do we remove the decimal point as well to
> empty the field? And if we *do* remove the decimal, how would that be
> different from having an empty field and typing a decimal point to start a
> decimal number; before the actual number is typed, there's just a decimal
> point in the field...
> 
> Hmm...
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From see3d at writeme.com  Thu Oct 27 13:51:24 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:51:24 -0400
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <47CDA52B-C878-44D6-9D00-A8A61D8EF0C3@writeme.com>

Heather,

Your post is not clear to me on a couple of points:

On Oct 27, 2005, at 11:06 AM, Heather Nagey wrote:

> Dear list members,
>
> Regarding the recent debate about extracting the current revdocs  
> and putting them on a public wiki. We have discussed this here, and  
> we feel that at this moment in time such effort would be largely  
> wasted, as the docs are under active review right now. However at a  
> later date we plan to make space available on our server for a  
> documentation wiki, if people are still keen to work on that.

This is a bit of a tepid endorsement, that "someday" RunRev might be  
willing to host a doc wiki if interest remains high.  Could you be a  
bit more committal about this.  We have the momentum starting here.   
A delaying tactic inserted into this effort is likely to smother it  
with complacency.  It would be better to take a leadership role NOW  
to set up the wiki (sever location is not critical, but RunRev would  
be preferred) with the direct input of the community so that the  
framework will work for now and for the future changes in the docs.   
After all that is the point of the wiki --to be able to dynamically  
upgrade the docs incrementally.  We should not have to wait for  
another slow release of doc corrections at RunRev to get this  
started.  Lets just work together to satisfy everyones needs.  Also I  
do not believe that it is a wasted effort, if the effort is automated.

The plans and upgrading of the docs are not the company jewels --they  
are the sales tools!

> If and when a wiki is set up, it will be necessary to have a  
> copyright notice incorporated, as the documentation is copyright  
> Runtime Revolution.

Are you saying "If and when" RunRev sets up a wiki OR "If and when"  
the list members sets up a wiki?

If the latter, are you saying that RunRev will allow the new or old  
docs to be put into a public wiki as long as a RunRev copyright  
notice is displayed?

Having the list members start this effort (with RunRev input) could  
greatly facilitate RunRev's ease and success in taking over the wiki  
if that is what you desire.

Work WITH us on this, and we will work with you.

Dennis



From see3d at writeme.com  Thu Oct 27 13:52:10 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:52:10 -0400
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>

Another possibility is that we don't try to duplicate the existing  
docs which we all have available anyway.  Duplicating the existing  
docs was just a good anchor point for the corrections and  
expansions.  However, the real value is in capturing the  
contributions to this list in a way that makes the information easily  
available for the future.

Dennis

On Oct 27, 2005, at 12:09 PM, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

> One possibility is that if we create a revdoc wiki with the new
> documentation, then when RunRev is ready to create their own wiki, the
> user-created wiki could be ported to RunRev for your use.


From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Oct 27 14:13:35 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:13:35 +0100
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968337@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968337@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <436118CF.9010508@tweedly.net>

Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

>I had to deal with this issue in my Task Mage app. When people enter
>dates into the date column, or times into the time column, it has to be
>a real date or real time, or else it will cause problems.
>
>I addressed this in two ways. In the keydown handler I only allow
>appropriate characters.
>
>In the exitfield handler, the script tries to interpret what they wrote
>and make it conform to the proper date or time format. If it does not
>conform, the field is reverted to empty.
>
>  
>
That sounds like a good approach, *except* (for someone as poor a typist 
as me)

 - I type 2005/0w/14     (i.e. mis-hit the 'w' below the '2' that I was 
aiming for)
 - hit return (or tab or ...)
 - and because it's not a valid date, the whole lot goes and I need to 
start typing from scratch ??

Some days, I'd never complete typing a date ! :-)
Hopefully, you allow some way to get back the invalid typing so I can 
just edit that.


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/149 - Release Date: 25/10/2005



From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Oct 27 14:22:25 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:22:25 +0100
Subject: OpenSockets and multiple stacks...?
In-Reply-To: <12398474.1130426154520.JavaMail.johnpatten@mac.com>
References: <12398474.1130426154520.JavaMail.johnpatten@mac.com>
Message-ID: <43611AE1.7050409@tweedly.net>

John Patten wrote:

>- Anyone have other examples of sockets in action, Alex Tweedly's are fantastic in the user directory, but it's always nice to see how other implementations!
>
>  
>
I recommend Bjoernke's chat application - http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/

this lets you get both client and server - and there's another version 
of the client somewhere out there, but I can't find the URL right now - 
I'll look on my other computer later tonight.  This also gives you the 
pointers to join in the chat sessions to ask questions ...

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/149 - Release Date: 25/10/2005



From mdswindell at charter.net  Thu Oct 27 14:23:53 2005
From: mdswindell at charter.net (Mark Swindell)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:23:53 -0700
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <cbfa4de190d64168f0887550ca4bef36@charter.net>

Using the existing docs as a starting point would be optimal, in my 
view.  From there things could branch out.
Mark


On Oct 27, 2005, at 10:52 AM, Dennis Brown wrote:

> Duplicating the existing docs was just a good anchor point for the 
> corrections and expansions.



From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Oct 27 14:51:16 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:51:16 -0400
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <cbfa4de190d64168f0887550ca4bef36@charter.net>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>
	<cbfa4de190d64168f0887550ca4bef36@charter.net>
Message-ID: <b39db44aaa8aef2397bbd4b12662e6f8@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 27, 2005, at 2:23 PM, Mark Swindell wrote:

> Using the existing docs as a starting point would be optimal, in my 
> view.

Exactly, otherwise there will be a wiki with many blank or placeholder 
pages which cannot completely support the user's inquiries - which 
ultimately results in a tool which is not used.

It would also be best if each page in the official documentation could 
link directly to the wiki page for the same term or item. If you can't 
easily get to the information from within the Rev environment there 
will be far less users of the system.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Oct 27 15:02:33 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:02:33 -0500
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <43612449.5090908@chipp.com>

Perhaps I don't know enough about wiki's, but it would sure be nice if 
they could organize data in a form which could be printed in a real-book 
format (and had an 'export to PDF' button which did just that, including 
TOC and index).

While they do provide a nice 'random-access' interface (search & find), 
I'm not sure they can really take the place of good serial 
documentation, which has a beginning, middle and end. And it sure seems 
like *that* is most needed as well. In fact, I believe the original 
RevDocs (mostly written by Jeanne DeVoto) were written to accomplish 
both ways of accessing information.

Perhaps Dan Shafer or Jeaane DeVoto might weigh in on this topic as both 
are accomplished documentation writers.

--------------
Chipp Walters
www.altuit.com



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Thu Oct 27 15:03:04 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:03:04 -0400
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744656@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

It's a matter of interpretation...

My date interpretation will automatically complete a date.

11/9 becomes 11/09/05 (this year, next year it will be 11/09/06.

1/2 becomes 1/02/05


12/0w/05 would be automatically converted to 12/01/05...
2005/0w/14 would be converted to 12/01/2014...
This last one is because the American convention is Mo/Day/Year, and the
program is not set up for the year/mo/day convention (although it could
be, if that were ever an issue).

It can't be perfect, some things just cannot be interpreted.  In my
situation, I cannot afford to have an invalid date in a date field, or
it will cause a cascading list of problems - so I have to be rigid about
that. But I see what you mean, if possible, it would be better to be
nice to your user and allow them to correct an invalid date rather than
have to type it over.

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Alex
Tweedly
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 2:14 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Ensuring numeric input

Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

>I had to deal with this issue in my Task Mage app. When people enter
>dates into the date column, or times into the time column, it has to be
>a real date or real time, or else it will cause problems.
>
>I addressed this in two ways. In the keydown handler I only allow
>appropriate characters.
>
>In the exitfield handler, the script tries to interpret what they wrote
>and make it conform to the proper date or time format. If it does not
>conform, the field is reverted to empty.
>
>  
>
That sounds like a good approach, *except* (for someone as poor a typist

as me)

 - I type 2005/0w/14     (i.e. mis-hit the 'w' below the '2' that I was 
aiming for)
 - hit return (or tab or ...)
 - and because it's not a valid date, the whole lot goes and I need to 
start typing from scratch ??

Some days, I'd never complete typing a date ! :-)
Hopefully, you allow some way to get back the invalid typing so I can 
just edit that.


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/149 - Release Date:
25/10/2005

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From see3d at writeme.com  Thu Oct 27 15:08:54 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:08:54 -0400
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <b39db44aaa8aef2397bbd4b12662e6f8@rpsystems.net>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>
	<cbfa4de190d64168f0887550ca4bef36@charter.net>
	<b39db44aaa8aef2397bbd4b12662e6f8@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <58DE2658-F64A-4D42-8B5A-F90FD2EB5791@writeme.com>

By the same token, having a link to the wiki from the built-in docs,  
would obviate the need to duplicate the same info in the wiki.  Only  
the additional information need be in the wiki.

However, if the internal docs could download a corrected definition  
from the wiki, then there is a good reason to have the complete  
definition included.  Could bring up the possibility of an auto  
update/notification:

Message:  There is an updated definition for "isNumber".  Would you  
like to download it now?  Yes No View


Dennis

On Oct 27, 2005, at 2:51 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Oct 27, 2005, at 2:23 PM, Mark Swindell wrote:
>
>
>> Using the existing docs as a starting point would be optimal, in  
>> my view.
>>
>
> Exactly, otherwise there will be a wiki with many blank or  
> placeholder pages which cannot completely support the user's  
> inquiries - which ultimately results in a tool which is not used.
>
> It would also be best if each page in the official documentation  
> could link directly to the wiki page for the same term or item. If  
> you can't easily get to the information from within the Rev  
> environment there will be far less users of the system.
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Thu Oct 27 15:07:12 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:07:12 -0400
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968339@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

Yup, I also agree. When reading a comment, we need to be able to refer
back to the original text that is commented upon.

Here is an example of what such a page would look like - this entry is
for the altID function:

http://www.seedwiki.com/wiki/runtime_revolution_docs/altid_property.cfm?
wpid=213569

And before anyone asks - no, that site is not meant to be the official
thing (unless it becomes the only option) - just meant to be used as an
example to whet appetites.

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Troy
Rollins
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 2:51 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Revdocs on a wiki


On Oct 27, 2005, at 2:23 PM, Mark Swindell wrote:

> Using the existing docs as a starting point would be optimal, in my 
> view.

Exactly, otherwise there will be a wiki with many blank or placeholder 
pages which cannot completely support the user's inquiries - which 
ultimately results in a tool which is not used.

It would also be best if each page in the official documentation could 
link directly to the wiki page for the same term or item. If you can't 
easily get to the information from within the Rev environment there 
will be far less users of the system.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From userev at canelasoftware.com  Thu Oct 27 15:25:05 2005
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:25:05 -0700
Subject: Bug while importing images larger than 16 MB
In-Reply-To: <20051027160202.21004.qmail@web40521.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051027160202.21004.qmail@web40521.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAE408AA-4257-495A-BADB-6B8981C33B19@canelasoftware.com>


On Oct 27, 2005, at 9:02 AM, Alejandro Tejada wrote:

> Recently, while working in an interface
> for the command-line bitmap tracing utility,
> Potrace and the bitmap processing utility,
> mkBitmap, i found two recurrent bugs that
> i want you confirm in your development
> environment.


Please see bug 2429:  <http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/ 
show_bug.cgi?id=2429>


Mark Talluto
-- 
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Oct 27 15:30:45 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:30:45 -0400
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <58DE2658-F64A-4D42-8B5A-F90FD2EB5791@writeme.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>
	<cbfa4de190d64168f0887550ca4bef36@charter.net>
	<b39db44aaa8aef2397bbd4b12662e6f8@rpsystems.net>
	<58DE2658-F64A-4D42-8B5A-F90FD2EB5791@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <56382e9f1d57e5c2646d1fa0a159ec03@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 27, 2005, at 3:08 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:

> By the same token, having a link to the wiki from the built-in docs, 
> would obviate the need to duplicate the same info in the wiki.

Good point, but this assumes that the only mechanism for browsing the 
wiki is the internal docs, doesn't it? Internal linking in the wiki 
would be useless, since "see also" links would inevitably end up at 
pages which were not populated. If this would be the case, then it 
would be better to simply fix whatever is wrong with the web docs 
system that is already built into Rev and start seriously supporting 
that with all this community energy.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From userev at canelasoftware.com  Thu Oct 27 15:39:51 2005
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:39:51 -0700
Subject: OpenSockets and multiple stacks...?
In-Reply-To: <43611AE1.7050409@tweedly.net>
References: <12398474.1130426154520.JavaMail.johnpatten@mac.com>
	<43611AE1.7050409@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <554403BE-75AB-48C3-AEDF-C3D135843F9E@canelasoftware.com>


On Oct 27, 2005, at 11:22 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> John Patten wrote:
>
>
>> - Anyone have other examples of sockets in action, Alex Tweedly's  
>> are fantastic in the user directory, but it's always nice to see  
>> how other implementations!
>>
>>
>>
> I recommend Bjoernke's chat application - http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/


I also made a chat program some time ago.  It is available on RevNet:  
CS Chatter box.  It is a real basic chat program that is easy to  
follow.  I made it to teach me about sockets when the forefather  
Scott Raney added sockets to the engine.


Mark Talluto
-- 
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Oct 27 15:44:43 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:44:43 -0500
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <56382e9f1d57e5c2646d1fa0a159ec03@rpsystems.net>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>	<EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>	<cbfa4de190d64168f0887550ca4bef36@charter.net>	<b39db44aaa8aef2397bbd4b12662e6f8@rpsystems.net>	<58DE2658-F64A-4D42-8B5A-F90FD2EB5791@writeme.com>
	<56382e9f1d57e5c2646d1fa0a159ec03@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <43612E2B.1070304@chipp.com>

Troy Rollins wrote:
> 
> If this would be the case, then it would 
> be better to simply fix whatever is wrong with the web docs system that 
> is already built into Rev and start seriously supporting that with all 
> this community energy.

Troy,

I agree.



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 27 15:56:26 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:56:26 -0700
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <43612E2B.1070304@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <BF867EFA.2FB6F%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Of course, the downside to that is most potential contributors will consider
it a DocZilla operation rather than a collaboration/sharing.  Am I missing
the point?

Jim Ault 
Las Vegas


On 10/27/05 12:44 PM, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:

> Troy Rollins wrote:
>> 
>> If this would be the case, then it would
>> be better to simply fix whatever is wrong with the web docs system that
>> is already built into Rev and start seriously supporting that with all
>> this community energy.
> 
> Troy,
> 
> I agree.
> 




From see3d at writeme.com  Thu Oct 27 16:05:30 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:05:30 -0400
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <56382e9f1d57e5c2646d1fa0a159ec03@rpsystems.net>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>
	<cbfa4de190d64168f0887550ca4bef36@charter.net>
	<b39db44aaa8aef2397bbd4b12662e6f8@rpsystems.net>
	<58DE2658-F64A-4D42-8B5A-F90FD2EB5791@writeme.com>
	<56382e9f1d57e5c2646d1fa0a159ec03@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <36ACAAF1-6547-42E8-8319-1C3302D37276@writeme.com>

Troy,

You are right about this.  I keep thinking in the back of my mind  
that the embedded docs system can be upgraded to interact with a wiki  
by Rev or another developer, because I have seen examples of this in  
Constellation and others also.

If RunRev gets behind this effort, then a hybrid approach or a stand  
alone approach are equally possible.  If it is a user community only  
approach, then it becomes more complex to have a hybrid approach  
because of the custom plugin that would need to be written and  
supported.

I agree, a simple self contained wiki is the best way to get things  
started.

Dennis

On Oct 27, 2005, at 3:30 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:

>
> On Oct 27, 2005, at 3:08 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:
>
>
>> By the same token, having a link to the wiki from the built-in  
>> docs, would obviate the need to duplicate the same info in the wiki.
>>
>
> Good point, but this assumes that the only mechanism for browsing  
> the wiki is the internal docs, doesn't it? Internal linking in the  
> wiki would be useless, since "see also" links would inevitably end  
> up at pages which were not populated. If this would be the case,  
> then it would be better to simply fix whatever is wrong with the  
> web docs system that is already built into Rev and start seriously  
> supporting that with all this community energy.
>
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Thu Oct 27 16:05:13 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:05:13 -0400
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A996833A@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

But with a wiki, we can do more than we can with web notes. We can add
our own sections, our own how-to articles, our own function scripts with
an explanation on how to use it, etc...

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Chipp
Walters
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:45 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Revdocs on a wiki

Troy Rollins wrote:
> 
> If this would be the case, then it would 
> be better to simply fix whatever is wrong with the web docs system
that 
> is already built into Rev and start seriously supporting that with all

> this community energy.

Troy,

I agree.

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Oct 27 16:43:03 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:43:03 -0400
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A996833A@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A996833A@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <7a23038e7f7e35188e5a561eb390866d@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 27, 2005, at 4:05 PM, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

> But with a wiki, we can do more than we can with web notes. We can add
> our own sections, our own how-to articles, our own function scripts 
> with
> an explanation on how to use it, etc...

Maybe RunRev could make it so that the wiki IS the internal 
documentation via an update of some kind. I just think this is an 
opportunity to integrate all of it into one thing, rather than add yet 
another source for dribs and drabs of haphazardly organized 
information.

RunRev is obviously aware of the community desire to participate in 
documentation. If they as smart as we know they are, they will take 
advantage of it by providing a mechanism of whatever kind.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From smithsm at samuelsmith.org  Thu Oct 27 16:47:32 2005
From: smithsm at samuelsmith.org (Samuel M. Smith)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:47:32 -0600
Subject: OpenSockets and multiple stacks...?
In-Reply-To: <554403BE-75AB-48C3-AEDF-C3D135843F9E@canelasoftware.com>
References: <12398474.1130426154520.JavaMail.johnpatten@mac.com>
	<43611AE1.7050409@tweedly.net>
	<554403BE-75AB-48C3-AEDF-C3D135843F9E@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <27328AA9-ADBB-4EAD-BB01-99177B24352C@samuelsmith.org>

Could you provide a URL for CS Chatter Box. I can't find it.

On 27 Oct, 2005, at 13:39, Mark Talluto wrote:

>
> On Oct 27, 2005, at 11:22 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote:
>
>
>> John Patten wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> - Anyone have other examples of sockets in action, Alex Tweedly's  
>>> are fantastic in the user directory, but it's always nice to see  
>>> how other implementations!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I recommend Bjoernke's chat application - http://bjoernke.com/ 
>> chatrev/
>>
>
>
> I also made a chat program some time ago.  It is available on  
> RevNet: CS Chatter box.  It is a real basic chat program that is  
> easy to follow.  I made it to teach me about sockets when the  
> forefather Scott Raney added sockets to the engine.
>
>
> Mark Talluto
> -- 
> CANELA Software
> http://www.canelasoftware.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

**********************************************************************
Samuel M. Smith Ph.D.
2966 Fort Hill Road
Eagle Mountain, Utah 84043
801-768-2768 voice
801-768-2769 fax
**********************************************************************
"The greatest source of failure and unhappiness in the world is
giving up what we want most for what we want at the moment"
**********************************************************************



From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Oct 27 16:31:18 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:31:18 -0700
Subject: Mac OS icns
In-Reply-To: <22b71fbd704d4485fc565097cf4f64b0@siphonophore.com>
References: <20051018203532.3A46E825352@mail.runrev.com>
	<22b71fbd704d4485fc565097cf4f64b0@siphonophore.com>
Message-ID: <p06210210bf86e8e1043a@[66.93.39.98]>

At 2:12 PM -0400 10/21/2005, Jeffrey Reynolds wrote:
>just wanted to check to make sure i have this correct. to associate 
>icn resources with a macos app, the referring resources must be 129 
>for the application and 128 for files, correct? It works in practice 
>for me, but the 261 documentation says to use 128 for standalone 
>apps and no mention of the files number. in looking at the created 
>apps, 129 is the application icn and 128 is the file icn.

All of this depends on how the FREF resource is set up - that 
determines which file type is associated with which icon.

By convention, the app icon is supposed to be ID 128, with file icons 
starting with 129. But as long as the FREF resource is set up 
correctly, other IDs will work. It looks like the standalone builder 
has the conventional ordering reversed, but this shouldn't hurt 
anything.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Thu Oct 27 16:46:45 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:46:45 -0400
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A996833B@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

Well...

Yes - I surely agree with integrating it like that...


But I don't know that they have the resources to support it - RunRev
won't release figures about their number of customers, but from what I
understand there just isn't a huge number of us revOlutionaries out
here.

Either way - I just want it to get done. If they cannot do it in a
timely manner, then we can get it started for them. If they can do it
soon - then great!

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Troy
Rollins
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:43 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Revdocs on a wiki


On Oct 27, 2005, at 4:05 PM, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:

> But with a wiki, we can do more than we can with web notes. We can add
> our own sections, our own how-to articles, our own function scripts 
> with
> an explanation on how to use it, etc...

Maybe RunRev could make it so that the wiki IS the internal 
documentation via an update of some kind. I just think this is an 
opportunity to integrate all of it into one thing, rather than add yet 
another source for dribs and drabs of haphazardly organized 
information.

RunRev is obviously aware of the community desire to participate in 
documentation. If they as smart as we know they are, they will take 
advantage of it by providing a mechanism of whatever kind.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Oct 27 17:02:12 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:02:12 +0100
Subject: Programming tools philosophy.
In-Reply-To: <302206713.20051027084959@ahsoftware.net>
References: <436021A8.8080000@tweedly.net>	<12850053653.20051026222437@ahsoftware.net>	<4AF48345-DDD9-44E4-94B4-1401A841E6F3@upnaway.com>
	<302206713.20051027084959@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <43614054.4010408@tweedly.net>

Mark Wieder wrote:

>Steve-
>
>Wednesday, October 26, 2005, 11:48:00 PM, you wrote:
>
>  
>
>>>"What is the largest integer whose digits are all different (and do
>>>not include 0) that is divisible by each of its individual digits?"
>>>      
>>>
>>The biggest I get is 864312, have not tested all yet.  12346789  
>>through 98764321 does not yield a result.
>>    
>>
>
>Thanks, but I'm actually more interested in the program that finds the
>answer than in the result itself. Can you show your work?
>  
>
Warning - I have both my code and my reasoning below ..... so don't 
scroll down and read it unless you don't mind seeing that already ...



















Well, I decided to do some more analysis first ...

(As Petzold said :

If the answer contains a 5, then it cannot contain any even digit, so 
the max possible value would be <= 97531.
So we can safely assume there is no '5', provided the final result is > 
97531.


That leaves us 8 digits, 98764321.
If the final answer includes the digit '9', then the sum of its digits 
must also be divisible by 9.
The ones we have add up to 40 - so we'd need to drop the 4 (or drop 
multiple digits).
If we dropped the 9, the max value would be <= 8764321

Assume we instead drop the 4 - and provided we get an answer > 8764321 
that is an OK assumption.

That's as far as I can go with analysis. Time for some brute force.

We can either construct possible answers (just from the digits left) and 
test them against the other criteria, or simply construct numbers and 
test them against all criteria, including these one. I decided on the 
latter - probably faster to construct numbers in a repeat loop.

The answer is

> 9867312  is OK
> 1002 229 208 68

This is large enough to validate the assumptions above; the last number 
is the time taken, i.e. 68 milliseconds !!
CP's version (in ANSI C) took "< 1 second"
Who says interpreted langauges are slow ?   <LOL>

The other numbers output are explained in the code below:

> --> all handlers
>
> on mouseUp
>     
>     put 0 into tCount1   -- numbers considered
>     put 0 into tCount2   -- numbers which pass first filter : no 0,5,4
>     put 0 into tCount3   -- numbers which pass "repeated digit" test
>     put the millisecs into tStart
>     repeat with tNum = 9876321 down to 1 step -9
>         add 1 to tCount1
>         if "0" is in tNum then next repeat
>         if "5" is in tNum then next repeat
>         if "4" is in tNum then next repeat
>         add 1 to tCount2
>         put true into possible
>         repeat with i = 1 to the number of chars in tNum
>             put char i of tNum into c
>             if c is in char i+1 to -i of tNum then
>                 put false into possible
>                 exit repeat
>             end if
>             add 1 to tCount3
>             if (tNum / c) is not an integer then
>                 put false into possible
>                 exit repeat
>             end if
>         end repeat
>         -- oh for a "exit repeat <name>" or equivalent !!
>         if possible then exit repeat   
>     end repeat
>     put tNum && " is OK" & cr after msg
>     put tCount1 && tCount2 && tCount3 && the millisecs - tSTart & cr 
> after msg
> end mouseUp




-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net

-------------- next part --------------
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/149 - Release Date: 25/10/2005

From userev at canelasoftware.com  Thu Oct 27 17:05:21 2005
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:05:21 -0700
Subject: OpenSockets and multiple stacks...?
In-Reply-To: <27328AA9-ADBB-4EAD-BB01-99177B24352C@samuelsmith.org>
References: <12398474.1130426154520.JavaMail.johnpatten@mac.com>
	<43611AE1.7050409@tweedly.net>
	<554403BE-75AB-48C3-AEDF-C3D135843F9E@canelasoftware.com>
	<27328AA9-ADBB-4EAD-BB01-99177B24352C@samuelsmith.org>
Message-ID: <A0583ADD-1F01-4CA6-87F9-5840269385C9@canelasoftware.com>


On Oct 27, 2005, at 1:47 PM, Samuel M. Smith wrote:

> Could you provide a URL for CS Chatter Box. I can't find it.


Sure: <http://www.canelasoftware.com/pub/rev/chat.rev.gz>


Mark Talluto
-- 
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From fgiannet at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 27 17:07:25 2005
From: fgiannet at hotmail.com (Fred Giannetto)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:07:25 -0400
Subject: General Questions on MS Media Player
In-Reply-To: <BF8155A1.2E69A%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <BAY106-F219F326B76DF233B0013D9D7680@phx.gbl>


Hello,

I am trying to display movies in two different formats.  Quicktime is 
working without a problem.  I am trying to setup a button that sets the 
viewer to MS Media Player and runs a movie from C:.

How does Revolution know where the movie is with such a simple statement as

start player "San Antone"                   ????

and is there a way to set the button so that is uses Windows Media player to 
open the movie?

All best Always
Fred




From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Oct 27 17:56:38 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:56:38 +0100
Subject: OpenSockets and multiple stacks...?
In-Reply-To: <12398474.1130426154520.JavaMail.johnpatten@mac.com>
References: <12398474.1130426154520.JavaMail.johnpatten@mac.com>
Message-ID: <43614D16.6020105@tweedly.net>

John Patten wrote:

>Thanks List for all the good suggestions!
>
>The socket calls are all new to me, so I'm still digesting the examples in the user directory. I believe the idea of having student stacks subscribe/connect to the teachers stack by creating a connection and then collecting student (stack) IP makes sense. I'll work from that angle.
>
>I had a couple questions...
>
>- When the a stack makes a connection to another stack, does the socket number/ID stay with the stack connection for the duration of the connection? 
>
>  
>
Yes

>- What actions will terminate a connection between two stacks?
>  
>
Primarily, either end doing a "close socket" (the other end will receive 
a "socketClosed" message).
Can also terminate if either end crashes, or the app is closed down 
without doing a "close socket" (in this case the other end will 
(possibly ? or always ? not sure) get a "socketError" message; it may 
get a socketTimeout first.

Can happen because of network failure (e.g. cable disconnected, 
switch/router dies, wifi network fails, etc.

>- When testing scripts, it appears that Rev holds on to certain previous actions. For example, I have been going back and forth between pairs of stack examples from the user library, and my own. Throwing around open sockets, connections, etc. scripts and changing between stacks appears to mix things up a bit. Is there a command I can throw into the msg box, "purge memory?" , that would prevent me from quitting and relaunching Rev when I'm testing scripts?
>
>  
>
resetAll

But in some ways I found that just got in the way of testing, because it 
would close down both client and server parts, which often I didn't 
want. See the "reStart" handler (in the card script) in my TCP server 
sample.

I did find it confusing to test networked apps in Rev, so at different 
times I resorted to:
 - using two machines
 - using the Player for client and the IDE for the server
 - building standalones for one side
 - and for some testing I wrote one or other side in Python just to stop 
me getting myself  confused.

Two or more) machines is definitely best :-)

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/149 - Release Date: 25/10/2005



From irog at mac.com  Thu Oct 27 17:56:47 2005
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:56:47 -0700
Subject: ANN: new free altPlugin: altMenuStack
In-Reply-To: <20051027104448.C64148253A8@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051027104448.C64148253A8@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <F3CB10FB-83AD-4F4B-8158-73A54722D13E@mac.com>

This is very useful, Chip and Ken.  Thank you very much!

Cheers, Roger


On Oct 27, 2005, at 3:44 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com  
wrote:

> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 01:25:02 -0500
> From: Chipp Walters <chipp at chipp.com>
> Subject: ANN: new free altPlugin: altMenuStack
> To: Use-Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <436072BE.9070807 at chipp.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> altMenuStack
> builder by Chipp Walters with stack scripts by Ken Ray
>
> What does this do?
>
> This free plugin creates a stack with images and menutext and scripts
> which you can use as your own custom popup menu. It was created so  
> that
> popup menus can have images associated with them. Check it out!
>
> It's also compatible with Altuit's altPlugin toolbar available at:
> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginCover/about.htm
>
> As usual with any of our plugins, please back up your stacks! I use
> altPluginArchive to do this. It also makes a serialized copy of a  
> stack
> each time it is invoked.
>
> To try it just enter into your message box:
> go URL "http://www.gadgetplugins.com/altplugins/altMenuStack.rev"
>
> Mucho thanks to Ken Ray for his generous offer of his great menuStack
> scripts!!!
>
> best,
>
> Chipp Walters
> Altuit, inc



From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Oct 27 18:39:37 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:39:37 -0500
Subject: ANN: new free altPlugin: altMenuStack
In-Reply-To: <F3CB10FB-83AD-4F4B-8158-73A54722D13E@mac.com>
References: <20051027104448.C64148253A8@mail.runrev.com>
	<F3CB10FB-83AD-4F4B-8158-73A54722D13E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <43615729.3090308@chipp.com>

Roger and everyone,

Please update your altMenuStack plugin. Preferences in the 
altPluginToolbar or:

enter into your message box:
go URL "http://www.gadgetplugins.com/altplugins/altMenuStack.rev"

I've fixed it so that the spacing is compatible across platforms now 
(thanks to Ken for some help on popups). There's some funky stuff going 
on with popUp stack menus. For instance, only buttons receive a mouseUp 
message, and they throw an error if you set your preferences to 
'automatically close stacks who's destroyStack property is false' in 
Constellation's IDE. (For some reason it works in the Rev IDE, Jerry's 
looking into it).

best,
Chipp




From katir at hindu.org  Thu Oct 27 18:57:41 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:57:41 -1000
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <099336D2-1182-4A4F-AB24-92836EBEFA04@hindu.org>

Heather, when you do get round to this... here is a super package...

advantage: no back end dbase required, all flat files, *very* well  
supported and easy to admin.

www.pmwiki.org


Sivakatirswami


On Oct 27, 2005, at 5:06 AM, Heather Nagey wrote:

> Dear list members,
>
> Regarding the recent debate about extracting the current revdocs  
> and putting them on a public wiki. We have discussed this here, and  
> we feel that at this moment in time such effort would be largely  
> wasted, as the docs are under active review right now. However at a  
> later date we plan to make space available on our server for a  
> documentation wiki, if people are still keen to work on that.
>
> If and when a wiki is set up, it will be necessary to have a  
> copyright notice incorporated, as the documentation is copyright  
> Runtime Revolution.
>
> Warm Regards,
>
> Heather
>
> Heather Nagey, Customer Support Manager
> Runtime Revolution Ltd
> www.runrev.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From michaell at unimelb.edu.au  Thu Oct 27 18:58:56 2005
From: michaell at unimelb.edu.au (Michael J. Lew)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 08:58:56 +1000
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
Message-ID: <p05200f00bf87093e8455@[128.250.229.137]>


Sorry Ken. Your script works well in a one-line field, but I need it 
to work in a many line field (maybe I didn't say that in the first 
place).

At 12:27 AM -0500 27/10/05, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>Try this one (script of the field):
>
>on keydown whichKey
>     if whichKey is among the chars of "01234567890.-" then
>         put me into tTemp
>         put word 2 of the selectedChunk into sChar
>         put word 4 of the selectedChunk into eChar
>         if eChar > sChar then -- some text is selected
>             delete char sChar to eChar of tTemp
>         end if
>         put whichKey after char eChar of tTemp
>         if isNumber(tTemp) then pass keyDown
>     end if
>end keyDown
>
>Basically it checks to see if the end product would end up with a numeric
>value, and if so, it will allow the keystroke to happen.
>
>BTW: There was no reason to trap for backspace/delete as there isn't a way
>AFAIK to remove some or part of a number and have the end result *not* be a
>number.
>
>HTH,
>
>Ken Ray


At 5:44 AM -0500 27/10/05, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>Judy Perry wrote:
>  > Of course, they just told me today that they think that it is possible for
>  > a computerized voting scheme to have an error rate of <1%.
>
>It's not the errors I'm concerned about as much as vulnerabilities and
>no audit trail.
>
>Bartcop's Second Law of Economics:
>
>      "If someone makes a mistake
>       that puts money in their pocket,
>       you can bet they'll make that mistake
>       again, and again, and again..."

This will get me into trouble if anyone notices it here at the bottom:

It is very important to recognize the folly of corruptible voting 
machines and to accept the possibility that elections are rigged. 
However, it is MUCH more important that people think about why they 
voted the way they did. They shouldn't be misled in the same way a 
second (third?) time. A little reflection and self-knowledge is 
called for: half of us owe the other half a confession of mea culpa.

-- 
Michael J. Lew

Senior Lecturer
Department of Pharmacology
The University of Melbourne
Parkville 3010
Victoria
Australia

Phone +613 8344 8304

**
New email address: michaell at unimelb.edu.au
**


From katir at hindu.org  Thu Oct 27 18:59:58 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:59:58 -1000
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <43612449.5090908@chipp.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>
	<43612449.5090908@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <5E58C3A2-BF6F-4A7D-B419-892DAC5BFFB6@hindu.org>

www.pmwiki.org offers some solutions to most of these   
problems...check it out the cookbook recipes for PDF export of the  
wiki pages.



On Oct 27, 2005, at 9:02 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Perhaps I don't know enough about wiki's, but it would sure be nice  
> if they could organize data in a form which could be printed in a  
> real-book format (and had an 'export to PDF' button which did just  
> that, including TOC and index).
>
> While they do provide a nice 'random-access' interface (search &  
> find), I'm not sure they can really take the place of good serial  
> documentation, which has a beginning, middle and end. And it sure  
> seems like *that* is most needed as well. In fact, I believe the  
> original RevDocs (mostly written by Jeanne DeVoto) were written to  
> accomplish both ways of accessing information.
>
> Perhaps Dan Shafer or Jeaane DeVoto might weigh in on this topic as  
> both are accomplished documentation writers.
>
> --------------
> Chipp Walters
> www.altuit.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 27 19:12:48 2005
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:12:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug while importing images larger than 16 MB
In-Reply-To: <20051027201756.40ABA8254E7@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20051027231249.85401.qmail@web40521.mail.yahoo.com>

on Thu, 27 Oct 2005 
Mark Talluto wrote:

> Please see bug 2429: 
> <http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/ 
> show_bug.cgi?id=2429>

Ah, thanks.

Do you think that the alwaysbuffer workaround
described by Mark W. could solve this problem?

Thanks for your answer!

al

Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Thu Oct 27 19:12:48 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:12:48 -0700
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06200702bf870785478b@[10.0.1.2]>

I have mixed feelings about what I'm about to say. I expect that the 
new docs will be a big improvement. They might be excellent. Rev 
deserves a lot of credit for efforts to enhance the docs. I don't 
want to see that deprecated. I suspect Rev cares about their users 
more than most technology companies I could name.

OTOH, in my opinion, it's time for the concept of "continuous quality 
improvement" came to the world of technical documentation. And, being 
a Rev loyalist, I'd love to see Rev do it first, maybe with a Rev 
interface, if feasible.

(It would be totally cool if a commercial product, intended for this 
purpose, could be built mostly with Rev. It would have to be 
extensible and flexible. But this seems feasible -- not that I know 
diddly squat about that sort of thing.)

With a wiki, continuous quality improvement could mean, "it gets a 
little better every five seconds." (For that matter, the Wikipedia, 
today, might get a little better every five *milliseconds*!)

Some published docs are better than others, but none get anywhere 
near optimal. Technical documentation is inevitably obsolete the day 
it is published. There's always room for updated information, clearer 
explanations, different contexts, more examples, more "see also" 
links, better search capacity, and so on. All those little 
improvements really add up over time. In addition, hyperlink 
technology (ahh... my old friend, HyperCard) can greatly enhance 
convenience and real-world useability. Multiple forms of indexing, 
for instance. Terse, less terse and verbose versions of the same 
topic, for another. (The beginner will likely want the verbose 
version. The experienced user will not want or need to wade through 
it.) I've never seen hyperlink technology live up to its potential, 
even though it's been in use for fifteen years or more. A docWiki 
like the one proposed could be the first time. (Wikipedia is already 
pretty good, I guess. I don't use it that much.)

I have some doubt about whether it would ever be profitable for a 
private company to write docs like those that could arise 
spontaneously from a wiki. Printed on paper, they might fill 10,000 
pages, and would still lack the convenience of hyperlinks, search 
capacity, and so on.

When docs arise spontaneously from a wiki, they will be much cheaper 
to produce -- almost free, after the early drafts, except for keeping 
out vandalism and ignorance. And users might also police the 
vandalism and ignorance at no cost (possibly). For the manufacturer, 
how good could it get?! Even if a company tried to write optimal docs 
and practice continuous quality improvement in the docs, users, given 
the opportunity, could always improve whatever the engineering and 
technical writing staff came up with, with no publication delay.

Just my .000002 cents worth. Have a nice day.


Tim


>Dear list members,
>
>Regarding the recent debate about extracting the current revdocs and 
>putting them on a public wiki. We have discussed this here, and we 
>feel that at this moment in time such effort would be largely 
>wasted, as the docs are under active review right now. However at a 
>later date we plan to make space available on our server for a 
>documentation wiki, if people are still keen to work on that.
>
>If and when a wiki is set up, it will be necessary to have a 
>copyright notice incorporated, as the documentation is copyright 
>Runtime Revolution.
>
>Warm Regards,
>
>Heather
>
>Heather Nagey, Customer Support Manager
>Runtime Revolution Ltd
>www.runrev.com



From rishi at puredata.com.au  Thu Oct 27 19:20:19 2005
From: rishi at puredata.com.au (Rishi Viner)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:20:19 +1000
Subject: Listing files in a folder
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860510262140x553ec10dsd4cbe5667d672982@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f99b52860510262140x553ec10dsd4cbe5667d672982@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1130455219.436160b35af45@www.puredata.com.au>

Wow! Some days you just don't know how lucky you will be! :) 
 
I'm about to start on an in-house project using rev that will also need to 
keep track of and move lots of files around. Thanks Sarah! 
 
Rishi Viner. 
 
Quoting Sarah Reichelt <sarah.reichelt at gmail.com>: 
 
> Hi All, 
>  
> I got sick of listing files in various folders and having to set the 
> default folder to do so, and then having to remember to set it back 
> afterwards. You can't  use "the files" to list files in anything other 
> than the default folder, so here is the function I wrote to handle 
> this boring stuff for me. It may be of no interest to most people, but 
> I am currently working on an app that has to examine multiple folders 
> and transfer files around, so it is saving me a lot of typing. 
>  
> The first parameter is the path to a folder. The second parameter 
> dictates whether the full file path for each file should be returned, 
> or just the file name. It can be any of true, yes or full. 
>  
> Cheers, 
> Sarah 
>  
>  
> function listFiles pFolder, pGiveFullPath 
>   if there is not a folder pFolder then return empty 
>  
>   -- get the list of files & reset default folder 
>   put the defaultFolder into tOldDefault 
>   set the defaultFolder to pFolder 
>   put the files into tFileList 
>   set the defaultFolder to tOldDefault 
>  
>   -- filter out OS X's invisible files 
>   filter tFileList without ".*" 
>  
>   -- add folder path to file name if required 
>   if pGiveFullPath is among the items of "true,yes,full" then 
>     put empty into tFullList 
>     if the last char of pFolder <> "/" then put "/" after pFolder 
>     repeat for each line L in tFileList 
>       put pFolder & L & cr after tFullList 
>     end repeat 
>     delete last char of tFullList 
>     return tFullList 
>  
>   else 
>     return tFileList 
>   end if 
> end listFiles 
> _______________________________________________ 
> use-revolution mailing list 
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com 
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences: 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution 
>  
 
 
--  
Rishi Viner 
PUREDATA 
 
www.puredata.com.au 


From userev at canelasoftware.com  Thu Oct 27 19:22:44 2005
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:22:44 -0700
Subject: Bug while importing images larger than 16 MB
In-Reply-To: <20051027231249.85401.qmail@web40521.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051027231249.85401.qmail@web40521.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <50E2A353-FC0B-408B-97DF-FADF2B35CE63@canelasoftware.com>


On Oct 27, 2005, at 4:12 PM, Alejandro Tejada wrote:

> on Thu, 27 Oct 2005
> Mark Talluto wrote:
>
>
>> Please see bug 2429:
>> <http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/
>> show_bug.cgi?id=2429>
>>
>
> Ah, thanks.
>
> Do you think that the alwaysbuffer workaround
> described by Mark W. could solve this problem?
>
> Thanks for your answer!
>

I don't think so.  He stated off the record that some reworking of  
image handling in Windows is needed to deal with memory hungry images.


Mark Talluto
-- 
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Oct 27 19:26:34 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:26:34 -0500
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <5E58C3A2-BF6F-4A7D-B419-892DAC5BFFB6@hindu.org>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>	<EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>	<43612449.5090908@chipp.com>
	<5E58C3A2-BF6F-4A7D-B419-892DAC5BFFB6@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <4361622A.90702@chipp.com>

Sivakatirswami,

Hmmmm.
http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/PublishPDF

Had a heck of a time trying to find that link! I think this may be a 
problems with wiki's in general..navigating to want you want. There is 
no 'forced' organization and as such no one ever seems to know where 
everything is.

But that link is very interesting. In fact I've got a complete GUI 
written around the openSource version of HTMLDOC. Currently it only 
works on Windows, but I seem to remember handing off the Mac/Linux port 
to Klaus? I'm not sure as it's been awhile.

In any case, Altuit's HTML2PDF plugin for Hemingway uses HTMLDOC to 
successfully convert Hemingway websites into PDF documentation, 
including linked Table of Contents. I believe Dan Shafer is using this 
process to build his eBooks.

The problem with HTMLDOC is that it only handles very few markup tags. 
So, one couldn't produce a magazine quality PDF document from it, but 
it's great for documentation.

For instance:

I wrote a simple stack which parsed the XML help stack and built a 
website out of it, and then converted the website to a PDF document:

It's not inclusive, but you can get the idea here:

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/Transcript/default.htm

Question:

How would one manage 'wiki-bloat' where different people post so much 
commentary about a function or handler or feature, that it becomes 
impossible to navigate through? Would special 'editors' need be 
appointed? If a wiki could be converted into a PDF, I'm not so sure I 
like the idea of a single PDF document with *everyones* thoughts on a topic.

I'm sure this topic has come up before.

best,

Chipp


Sivakatirswami wrote:
> www.pmwiki.org offers some solutions to most of these   problems...check 
> it out the cookbook recipes for PDF export of the  wiki pages.



From katir at hindu.org  Thu Oct 27 20:02:30 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:02:30 -1000
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <4361622A.90702@chipp.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>	<EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>	<43612449.5090908@chipp.com>
	<5E58C3A2-BF6F-4A7D-B419-892DAC5BFFB6@hindu.org>
	<4361622A.90702@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <38D7F9F0-67F4-4DC5-834C-694BBFE605EE@hindu.org>

well, the search function helps on wikis: enter: "PDF"

But PMwiki.org has things going for that a Rev wiki would not

#1 Professor Patrick Michaud (PM) is incredibly dedicated to  PMwiki  
which is a "product" albeit open source. In it's own right, the issue  
of site maintenance are handled immediately if he is not traveling.  
He releases updates to PMwiki at phenomenal rates...

#2 a large number of the contributers are web-wiki admins themselves  
whose job it is, or part of it is to maintain wikis and they are very  
active on the site.

But why it's a good model is that it is the documentation site for  
PMwiki. It's surprising to see that most people respect that and  
there is very little "wiki bloat" from people simply waxing on and on...

lesson: the Rev Wiki wants to be constrained to being a documentation  
tool and not become a giant blog. Surprisingly though PM has this  
site pretty much "wide open" (anyone can edit anything, but he has  
spamme controls built in) very little OT blogging goes on at all.

But it obviously requires a bit of dedication in terms of real time  
online by  several people.

I guess I find PM wiki so useful is mostly because

a) I don't know PHP, but I have a full blown wiki and farm on our  
site that I can admin the site  with very little input.
b) no dBase back end... (and that doesn't make it slower...)

I not that that community also suffers from the other issue where a  
large part of the solutions and useful dialogs are all still found in  
the user email forum, and much of that would never, ever see the  
light of day on the wiki... were it not for Patricks dedication to  
updating the docs...


On Oct 27, 2005, at 1:26 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Sivakatirswami,
>
> Hmmmm.
> http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/PublishPDF
>
> Had a heck of a time trying to find that link! I think this may be  
> a problems with wiki's in general..navigating to want you want.  
> There is no 'forced' organization and as such no one ever seems to  
> know where everything is.
>
> But that link is very interesting. In fact I've got a complete GUI  
> written around the openSource version of HTMLDOC. Currently it only  
> works on Windows, but I seem to remember handing off the Mac/Linux  
> port to Klaus? I'm not sure as it's been awhile.
>
> In any case, Altuit's HTML2PDF plugin for Hemingway uses HTMLDOC to  
> successfully convert Hemingway websites into PDF documentation,  
> including linked Table of Contents. I believe Dan Shafer is using  
> this process to build his eBooks.
>
> The problem with HTMLDOC is that it only handles very few markup  
> tags. So, one couldn't produce a magazine quality PDF document from  
> it, but it's great for documentation.
>
> For instance:
>
> I wrote a simple stack which parsed the XML help stack and built a  
> website out of it, and then converted the website to a PDF document:
>
> It's not inclusive, but you can get the idea here:
>
> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/Transcript/default.htm
>
> Question:
>
> How would one manage 'wiki-bloat' where different people post so  
> much commentary about a function or handler or feature, that it  
> becomes impossible to navigate through? Would special 'editors'  
> need be appointed? If a wiki could be converted into a PDF, I'm not  
> so sure I like the idea of a single PDF document with *everyones*  
> thoughts on a topic.
>
> I'm sure this topic has come up before.
>
> best,
>
> Chipp
>
>
> Sivakatirswami wrote:
>
>> www.pmwiki.org offers some solutions to most of these    
>> problems...check it out the cookbook recipes for PDF export of  
>> the  wiki pages.
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Oct 27 20:22:53 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 01:22:53 +0100
Subject: Programming tools philosophy.
In-Reply-To: <43614054.4010408@tweedly.net>
References: <436021A8.8080000@tweedly.net>	<12850053653.20051026222437@ahsoftware.net>	<4AF48345-DDD9-44E4-94B4-1401A841E6F3@upnaway.com>	<302206713.20051027084959@ahsoftware.net>
	<43614054.4010408@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <43616F5D.1050504@tweedly.net>

Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Mark Wieder wrote:
>
>> Steve-
>>
>> Wednesday, October 26, 2005, 11:48:00 PM, you wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>>> "What is the largest integer whose digits are all different (and do
>>>> not include 0) that is divisible by each of its individual digits?"
>>>>     
>>>
>>> The biggest I get is 864312, have not tested all yet.  12346789  
>>> through 98764321 does not yield a result.
>>>   
>>
>>
>> Thanks, but I'm actually more interested in the program that finds the
>> answer than in the result itself. Can you show your work?
>>  
>>
> Warning - I have both my code and my reasoning below ..... so don't 
> scroll down and read it unless you don't mind seeing that already ...
>
That warning still applies .....














I took the dogs for a walk, so had more time to think about this.
(Part of my regular problem-solving technique :-)

>
> Well, I decided to do some more analysis first ...
>
> (As Petzold said :
>
> If the answer contains a 5, then it cannot contain any even digit, so 
> the max possible value would be <= 97531.
> So we can safely assume there is no '5', provided the final result is 
> > 97531.
>
>
> That leaves us 8 digits, 98764321.
> If the final answer includes the digit '9', then the sum of its digits 
> must also be divisible by 9.
> The ones we have add up to 40 - so we'd need to drop the 4 (or drop 
> multiple digits).
> If we dropped the 9, the max value would be <= 8764321
>
> Assume we instead drop the 4 - and provided we get an answer > 8764321 
> that is an OK assumption.
>
> That's as far as I can go with analysis. Time for some brute force.
>
More analysis.

The code shown before used a loop
   repeat with tNum = 9876321 down to 1 step -9
making use of the fact that we know the initial value is divisible by 9, 
so need only try those values which differ from it by multiples of 9.

We can extend that to directly calculate how to make it divisible by 8 - 
and then try numbers which differ from *that* by multiples of 72.  (In 
fact, I didn't do this calculation - simply reduced it by 9 repeatedly 
until it became a multiple of 8)

We can extend that to calculate how to make it a multiple of 7 - and 
then decrease by steps of 504 (9*8*7)
(again, just decrease by 72 until it becomes a multiple of 7)

etc.

Old answer was

> The answer is
>
>> 9867312  is OK
>> 1002 229 208 68
>
>
> This is large enough to validate the assumptions above; the last 
> number is the time taken, i.e. 68 milliseconds !!
> CP's version (in ANSI C) took "< 1 second"
> Who says interpreted langauges are slow ?   <LOL>
>
New answer is

> 9867312  is OK
> 18 4 0

i.e. less than 1 millisec !


and the code is

> --> all handlers
>
> on mouseUp
>     
>     put 0 into tCount1   -- numbers considered
>     put 0 into tCount2   -- numbers which pass first filter : no 0,5,4
>     put 0 into tCount3   -- numbers which pass "repeated digit" test
>     put the millisecs into tStart
>     
>     put  9876321 into tFirst
>     put 9876321 into tNum
>     put 1 into tMultiple
>     
>     repeat with i = 1 to the number of chars in tNum
>         put char i of tFirst into c
>         -- I'm sure it should be possible to calculate this, but we 
> cannot loop
>         --   more than a single-digit number of time, so not worth the 
> effort
>         --    to figure out the calculation
>         repeat while  tNum mod c <> 0
>             subtract tMultiple from tNum  
>         end repeat
>         -- Now that we are a multiple of all digits so far, must remain so
>         -- step down by LCM of tMultiple and this new char
>         --  (no need to calculate LCM : just use the new digit if not 
> already a divisor
>         --     digits in decreasing order satisfy this automatically)
>         if tMultiple mod c <> 0 then multiply tMultiple by c
>     end repeat
>      
>     repeat with tNum = tNUm  down to 1 step -tMultiple
>         add 1 to tCount1
>         if "0" is in tNum then next repeat
>         if "5" is in tNum then next repeat
>         if "4" is in tNum then next repeat
>         add 1 to tCount2
>         put true into possible
>         repeat with i = 1 to the number of chars in tNum
>             put char i of tNum into c
>             if c is in char i+1 to -i of tNum then
>                 put false into possible
>                 exit repeat
>             end if
>             -- no need for divisibilty check - tMultiple ensures this 
> is always true
>             -- -- -- add 1 to tCount3
>             -- -- -- if (tNum / c) is not an integer then
>             -- -- -- put false into possible
>             -- -- -- exit repeat
>             -- -- -- end if
>         end repeat
>         -- oh for a "exit repeat <name>" or equivalent !!
>         if possible then exit repeat   
>     end repeat
>     put tNum && " is OK" & cr after msg
>     put tCount1 && tCount2 && the millisecs - tSTart & cr after msg
> end mouseUp



-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/149 - Release Date: 25/10/2005



From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Oct 27 20:53:41 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:53:41 -0700
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <p06200702bf870785478b@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>
	<p06200702bf870785478b@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>

Tim.....

I've kept my counsel as this thread unwound, determined not to become  
embroiled in yet another discussion about the Rev docs, which remain  
among the best of any software development tool I've seen. But your  
post dragged me out of the bushes. While I agree with much of what  
you say, your below comment is one I couldn't let just slip by  
without comment. :-)

On Oct 27, 2005, at 4:12 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:

> users, given the opportunity, could always improve whatever the  
> engineering and technical writing staff came up with, with no  
> publication delay.

<rant>
I wonder why it is that everyone thinks s/he can write better  
documentation than the professionals but scarcely anyone thinks they  
can write better software than the engineering team. Writing good  
docs is a skill that takes years to develop. The tech writer must be  
part engineer, part programmer, part writer, part user. I know most  
people don't realize how much software QA and debugging is done by  
the doc staff at major tech companies, but I can assure you it's a  
huge contributor. In trying to describe how something works or when  
to use some feature, the writer has to stand in for the uneducated  
user and try things that the engineers never thought a user would do.  
So while it is absolutely true that users can add a great deal to the  
information base from which a tech writer works and while it's  
certainly often true that end users could suggest things the tech  
writer didn't think about, the idea that users should be allowed to  
*edit* (as opposed to comment on) documentation makes as little sense  
to me as the idea of allowing the engineers at customers' companies  
to edit the source code of the product.
</rant>

Several years ago, I headed up a project which involved an extensive  
documentation effort and this same issue was raised. I like the way  
we solved it. Furthermore, I happen to have access to the tool and a  
server where it could be deployed and would make both freely  
available if: (a) at least one or two others would be willing to  
share site management and editing chores; and (b) the community  
thinks it's a good idea. The approach we used was akin to a  
discussion board. Each section of the docs was a topic on the board.  
Everyone who was a member (and that term could be loosely defined, of  
course) could add their comments to a section of the docs. There was  
also a general topic area where people could post questions and  
suggestions about the docs in their totality. Periodically, an editor  
assigned to a given section would go through the comments,  
incorporate the suggestions that made sense, edit the topic, create a  
new topic on that section, hibernate the old, and move comments that  
remained relevant to the new topic area.

At the same time there was a way for any interested party to: (a) see  
the docs without the comments; (b) navigate using only the "official"  
docs; and (c) view and print (and save as PDF) all or some of the  
currently official documentation. This model is called "managed open  
collaboration" and I think it presents the best of all possible  
worlds in terms of encouraging and incorporating useful input without  
disrupting the accuracy or utility of the original and modified  
documentation.

FWIW.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From michaell at unimelb.edu.au  Thu Oct 27 21:24:22 2005
From: michaell at unimelb.edu.au (Michael J. Lew)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:24:22 +1000
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
Message-ID: <p05200f01bf872c56bde1@[128.250.229.137]>

Thank you all for your input into my problem. I have now settled on a 
solution using a combination of a keydown filter and a handler 
triggered on closeField.

In the field scripts:
on keydown thekey
   if theKey is in "01234567890-.," then --note comma added for MisterX
     pass keyDown
   end if
end keydown

on closeField
   checkFieldForValidNumbers(the id of me)
end closeField

And in the stack script:
on checkFieldForValidNumbers pfieldID
   put fld ID pFieldID into tdata
   put 0 into lineNum
   repeat for each line tline in tdata
     add 1 to lineNum
     if tline is not a number then
       beep
       Answer "Please ensure that all values are valid numbers."
       select line lineNum of field id pFieldID
       exit to top
     end if
   end repeat
end checkFieldForValidNumbers

I am assuming that the number() function will be OK with commas as 
decimal places in coutries where that is the norm, but I'm not really 
sure. Xavier, can you check that the scripts work OK for you please?

-- 
Michael J. Lew

Senior Lecturer
Department of Pharmacology
The University of Melbourne
Parkville 3010
Victoria
Australia

Phone +613 8344 8304

**
New email address: michaell at unimelb.edu.au
**


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 21:48:17 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:48:17 +1000
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>
	<p06200702bf870785478b@10.0.1.2>
	<B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510271848v1dbe1cc2h52d270744cd63dbf@mail.gmail.com>

> Several years ago, I headed up a project which involved an extensive
> documentation effort and this same issue was raised. I like the way
> we solved it. Furthermore, I happen to have access to the tool and a
> server where it could be deployed and would make both freely
> available if: (a) at least one or two others would be willing to
> share site management and editing chores; and (b) the community
> thinks it's a good idea. The approach we used was akin to a
> discussion board. Each section of the docs was a topic on the board.
> Everyone who was a member (and that term could be loosely defined, of
> course) could add their comments to a section of the docs. There was
> also a general topic area where people could post questions and
> suggestions about the docs in their totality. Periodically, an editor
> assigned to a given section would go through the comments,
> incorporate the suggestions that made sense, edit the topic, create a
> new topic on that section, hibernate the old, and move comments that
> remained relevant to the new topic area.
>

This functionality would be achieved if the existing docs web notes
worked properly. While I haven't tried adding to them, it sounds as if
there are problems at the moment. However solving these problems would
give a mechanism for adding user's comments to the docs, while
allowing RunRev to moderate or incorporate as they see fit. It also
provides the mechanism for having these user comments as part of the
Revolution IDE rather than having to remember to start up another
application and go to a web page to check whether there are any
existing comments.

Cheers,
Sarah


From see3d at writeme.com  Thu Oct 27 22:09:05 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:09:05 -0400
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860510271848v1dbe1cc2h52d270744cd63dbf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>
	<p06200702bf870785478b@10.0.1.2>
	<B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>
	<f99b52860510271848v1dbe1cc2h52d270744cd63dbf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0594AA80-B75B-4F94-AA4B-15230026D9A9@writeme.com>

I really believe the functionality desired would not be served by Web  
Notes as currently conceived --even if thy did work.  To capture much  
of the wisdom that is shared on this list requires the ability to add  
new topics and links.  Web Notes is just a place to make a coment  
about an existing dictionary entry or topic.

I like the basic concept proposed by Dan below.  It is a good place  
to start a discussion because he has a wealth of prior knowledge with  
the practical implementation of the desired goals, and he is a first  
rate documentation guy to boot!

On Oct 27, 2005, at 9:48 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>> Several years ago, I headed up a project which involved an extensive
>> documentation effort and this same issue was raised. I like the way
>> we solved it. Furthermore, I happen to have access to the tool and a
>> server where it could be deployed and would make both freely
>> available if: (a) at least one or two others would be willing to
>> share site management and editing chores; and (b) the community
>> thinks it's a good idea. The approach we used was akin to a
>> discussion board. Each section of the docs was a topic on the board.
>> Everyone who was a member (and that term could be loosely defined, of
>> course) could add their comments to a section of the docs. There was
>> also a general topic area where people could post questions and
>> suggestions about the docs in their totality. Periodically, an editor
>> assigned to a given section would go through the comments,
>> incorporate the suggestions that made sense, edit the topic, create a
>> new topic on that section, hibernate the old, and move comments that
>> remained relevant to the new topic area.
>>
>>
>
> This functionality would be achieved if the existing docs web notes
> worked properly. While I haven't tried adding to them, it sounds as if
> there are problems at the moment. However solving these problems would
> give a mechanism for adding user's comments to the docs, while
> allowing RunRev to moderate or incorporate as they see fit. It also
> provides the mechanism for having these user comments as part of the
> Revolution IDE rather than having to remember to start up another
> application and go to a web page to check whether there are any
> existing comments.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From see3d at writeme.com  Thu Oct 27 22:11:25 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:11:25 -0400
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>
	<p06200702bf870785478b@[10.0.1.2]>
	<B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <6C89A840-E04C-445B-8E9A-CB063B56CCC6@writeme.com>

Dan,

Thank you for joining this discussion with this worth while proposal.

Having read the list of desired features on this thread, which  
features do you think would have to be compromised with the solution  
you are proposing?

  Dennis

On Oct 27, 2005, at 8:53 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Several years ago, I headed up a project which involved an  
> extensive documentation effort and this same issue was raised. I  
> like the way we solved it. Furthermore, I happen to have access to  
> the tool and a server where it could be deployed and would make  
> both freely available if: (a) at least one or two others would be  
> willing to share site management and editing chores; and (b) the  
> community thinks it's a good idea. The approach we used was akin to  
> a discussion board. Each section of the docs was a topic on the  
> board. Everyone who was a member (and that term could be loosely  
> defined, of course) could add their comments to a section of the  
> docs. There was also a general topic area where people could post  
> questions and suggestions about the docs in their totality.  
> Periodically, an editor assigned to a given section would go  
> through the comments, incorporate the suggestions that made sense,  
> edit the topic, create a new topic on that section, hibernate the  
> old, and move comments that remained relevant to the new topic area.
>
> At the same time there was a way for any interested party to: (a)  
> see the docs without the comments; (b) navigate using only the  
> "official" docs; and (c) view and print (and save as PDF) all or  
> some of the currently official documentation. This model is called  
> "managed open collaboration" and I think it presents the best of  
> all possible worlds in terms of encouraging and incorporating  
> useful input without disrupting the accuracy or utility of the  
> original and modified documentation.
>
> FWIW.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
> http://www.shafermedia.com
> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Oct 27 22:26:45 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:26:45 -0700
Subject: Programming tools philosophy.
In-Reply-To: <43614054.4010408@tweedly.net>
References: <436021A8.8080000@tweedly.net>
	<12850053653.20051026222437@ahsoftware.net>
	<4AF48345-DDD9-44E4-94B4-1401A841E6F3@upnaway.com>
	<302206713.20051027084959@ahsoftware.net>
	<43614054.4010408@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <12140413301.20051027192645@ahsoftware.net>

Alex-

Nice. And that elapsed time is amazing. If I'm reading the statistics
properly, your program performed 208 divisions out of 229 trials, so
21 attempts were rejected due to repeated digits. And 773 attempts
were rejected because they contained 0, 4, or 5.

But did you really mean

>             if c is in char i+1 to -i of tNum then

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Oct 27 22:31:37 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:31:37 -0700
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <6C89A840-E04C-445B-8E9A-CB063B56CCC6@writeme.com>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>	<p06200702bf870785478b@[10.0.1.2]>	<B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>
	<6C89A840-E04C-445B-8E9A-CB063B56CCC6@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <43618D89.6000607@fourthworld.com>

I wonder if the process of working out the details of this project might 
be well served on a dedicated list, perhaps the RevDocs list:
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RevDocs/>


--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  __________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Thu Oct 27 23:29:02 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 20:29:02 -0700
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>
	<p06200702bf870785478b@[10.0.1.2]>
	<B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <p06200703bf873856b8cd@[10.0.1.2]>

Hi Dan,

Sorry you think it was a rant. I guess it might have been. It's 
embarrassing to rant, when that wasn't your intention. <:-|

>--snip--



>I wonder why it is that everyone thinks s/he can write better 
>documentation than the professionals


Good comment, but it's not quite what I intended to say.

The engineering team must certainly begin the documentation process. 
If it's a simple application, then maybe the docs written by the 
engineers are as good as they can be.

But if it's a very complex application, or development tool, or 
whatever, then the documentation is *never* optimal.

If the engineering department had unlimited resources, and the desire 
to engage in continuous quality improvement, then they would likely 
write better documentation than users on a wiki.

But no engineering department has unlimited resources. Beyond that, 
continuous quality improvement on documentation is an infinite task 
that would not appeal to many engineers. Writing more than one 
version of the same entry, adjusting to the sophistication of the 
user -- I don't think many engineers would like that.

A very large number of users (if there are lots of sophisticated 
users, and few pimply faced vandals) can edit each other, in large 
degree. That's the beauty of the wiki model. As I understand it, 
wikiPedia is working out pretty well, with very little editorial 
oversight. The number of intelligent users with good intentions 
overwhelms the much smaller number of vandals and misguided users. 
(Some degree of editorial oversight is probably needed on many wikis, 
nonetheless.)

Sure, some users would bloat entries. But then, other users would 
prune them. When I look at the wikipedia, the entries I see are 
remarkably concise. E.g., I looked up iChat today. It was a very good 
entry, with all the links a guy could wish for. It eliminated the 
need for several dumb questions on some peer support group.

In other words, the users *aren't* as knowledgeable or skilled as the 
engineers, but their lack of knowledge is overbalanced by the size of 
the user community.

Beyond that, engineers don't always write well, and writing 
documentation clearly is a very difficult task. No matter how 
carefully documentation is edited, users will always find passages 
that should be clearer, or more extensive. Optionally extensive -- 
via hyperlinks. E.g., "Click here for a more detailed explanation of 
this topic."

>I know most people don't realize how much software QA and debugging 
>is done by the doc staff at major tech companies, but I can assure 
>you it's a huge contributor.


That makes sense. A docWiki starting from scratch for Rev has always 
seemed like a dubious proposition, to me. Better to start with good 
material. Doesn't necessarily need to be Rev's copyrighted 
documentation, though.

Rev might figure out a way to allow a wiki community to supplement 
and clarify the copyrighted docs, in a format convenient for all 
users, without giving up the copyright.

>In trying to describe how something works or when to use some 
>feature, the writer has to stand in for the uneducated user and try 
>things that the engineers never thought a user would do.


Novice users can speak for themselves, in many cases. If a novice 
user misunderstands, makes mistakes the engineers never anticipated, 
solves the problem, eventually understands better -- then the user 
can go back to the docs, figure out which part was misleading or 
incomplete, and improve it a bit. Repeat times many. Seems like this 
process would eventually out-perform the best possible team of 
engineer/writers.

>So while it is absolutely true that users can add a great deal to 
>the information base from which a tech writer works and while it's 
>certainly often true that end users could suggest things the tech 
>writer didn't think about, the idea that users should be allowed to 
>*edit* (as opposed to comment on) documentation makes as little 
>sense to me as the idea of allowing the engineers at customers' 
>companies to edit the source code of the product.


I've never meant to suggest that novice users should have unlimited 
editing privileges. I agree with the above paragraph, more or less. 
(It's possible that more experienced users would edit bad edits -- 
but that doesn't seem certain.) It probably makes more sense for 
novices to comment only, as you say. More sophisticated volunteer 
users would probably be able to take the comments submitted by 
novices and turn them into good edits and additions.

One possible model -- Participants could earn higher levels of 
access. Sort of like MVPs on microsoft's peer support groups. I don't 
claim this is the best possible model. Could be too complicated.

></rant>
>
>Several years ago, I headed up a project which involved an extensive 
>documentation effort and this same issue was raised. I like the way 
>we solved it. Furthermore, I happen to have access to the tool and a 
>server where it could be deployed and would make both freely 
>available if: (a) at least one or two others would be willing to 
>share site management and editing chores; and (b) the community 
>thinks it's a good idea. The approach we used was akin to a 
>discussion board. Each section of the docs was a topic on the board. 
>Everyone who was a member (and that term could be loosely defined, 
>of course) could add their comments to a section of the docs. There 
>was also a general topic area where people could post questions and 
>suggestions about the docs in their totality. Periodically, an 
>editor assigned to a given section would go through the comments, 
>incorporate the suggestions that made sense, edit the topic, create 
>a new topic on that section, hibernate the old, and move comments 
>that remained relevant to the new topic area.


You know this industry way better than I do. This might be a superior 
model. OTOH, this model could keep more than one editor/engineer 
pretty busy -- I'd estimate. If Rev doesn't have the resources to 
support this kind of model, then we're back to (mostly) volunteer 
authors and editors on a wiki.

>
>At the same time there was a way for any interested party to: (a) 
>see the docs without the comments; (b) navigate using only the 
>"official" docs; and (c) view and print (and save as PDF) all or 
>some of the currently official documentation. This model is called 
>"managed open collaboration" and I think it presents the best of all 
>possible worlds in terms of encouraging and incorporating useful 
>input without disrupting the accuracy or utility of the original and 
>modified documentation.


That makes a lot of sense. And it's very generous of you to offer your efforts.

I don't mean to cheerlead for a specific model. I don't have the 
expertise to compare models wisely. I want to share a vision, and 
vote in favor of it now and then:

--A product we admire, and depend on.
--A complex product, which needs the best possible documentation to thrive.
--A community of loyal and reasonably knowledgeable users, many 
willing to volunteer writing/editing/exampling/hyperlinking time.
--Continuous quality improvement for the docs.
--The inherent advantages of various wiki-like models.
--The likelihood that a well-run wiki can further grow and bond a 
community of users.
--A possible good fit between various wiki-like models and rev itself.

Why have I gotten all preoccupied with this? I don't really know. 
Maybe I should shut up and leave this matter for the experts. I just 
sort of got a bug up my data bus.

Upon further reflection, I've daydreamed about this sort of thing 
ever since I first heard about hyperlinks and the www. It strikes a 
romantic, idealist chord in me. Human beings are great at 
collaborating to make war, or to destroy the planet foolishly. Maybe 
new technology can make it possible for human beings to do *good* 
things more often. Anything written or decided by a committee usually 
turns out badly. But wikis seem to maximize the advantages of 
collaborative efforts, while minimizing the stupidity of committees.

I've always wondered if a well-run wiki could produce a great novel 
or textbook, for example, or solve a difficult mathematical problem. 
As far as I know, these possibilities remain untested.

I'd way rather shut up than appear tiresome and foolish to all. I 
would have lost interest in this topic many threads ago, but it keeps 
coming up. I get the impression that some other subscribers share 
this vision, approximately. If not,  I'm done.


Cheers,



Tim



From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Oct 27 23:48:21 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:48:21 -0500
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <p06200703bf873856b8cd@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>	<p06200702bf870785478b@[10.0.1.2]>	<B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>
	<p06200703bf873856b8cd@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <43619F85.3040001@chipp.com>

Timothy Miller wrote:


> The engineering team must certainly begin the documentation process. If 
> it's a simple application, then maybe the docs written by the engineers 
> are as good as they can be.
> 
> But if it's a very complex application, or development tool, or 
> whatever, then the documentation is *never* optimal.
> 
> If the engineering department had unlimited resources, and the desire to 
> engage in continuous quality improvement, then they would likely write 
> better documentation than users on a wiki.
> 
> But no engineering department has unlimited resources. Beyond that, 
> continuous quality improvement on documentation is an infinite task that 
> would not appeal to many engineers. Writing more than one version of the 
> same entry, adjusting to the sophistication of the user -- I don't think 
> many engineers would like that.

Tim,

You might want to reread what Dan was 'ranting' about. He's talking 
about professional writers, not engineers. Jeanne DeVoto (the original 
revDocs writers) and Dan Shafer are both professional writers, each with 
multiple technical books and manuals published. Back in the HyperCard 
days, they were both well-published and well-read authors. I'm not sure 
I know *any* engineers who can write as well.

Though, after seeing Sivakatirswami's post regarding PMwiki and PDF's, I 
might be more inclined to consider a Rev backed wiki experiment. The few 
wiki's I've been involved with in the past were:

1) Way too slow
2) Not well organized
3) Way too slow
4) Never really got to a finished state where they were really helpful

Did I mention how slow they were? :-)

But, with the dedicated users here on this list, and some basic 
housekeeping rules (that means limited TAOO references Xavier! ;-), it 
might be interesting to see what happens. Perhaps with the shared 
enthusiasm, Kevin et al might greenlight a test wiki.

Even if RR did, I suspect there would be a lot of time doing front end 
analysis of how to organize the content so that it can be reused. One of 
the good things about the docs in the current XML state (not the doc 
viewer, but the underlying data structure) is that it can be repurposed 
quickly. This is great because many different users including Jerry 
Daniels, Richard Gaskin, Wouter, Geoff Canyon and  myself have been able 
to use the XML to create different ways at looking at the documentation.

Some of these are free, others cost. But the beauty in XML is that it 
doesn't 'lock' the content inside a display presentation format. I 
assume wiki's can do the same thing.

best,

Chipp



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Oct 28 00:25:39 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 06:25:39 +0200
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <43619F85.3040001@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <20051028035215.247518253A9@mail.runrev.com>

Chipp

im working on something with TAOO as the front end for a better
Documentation platform which will import XML and export to HTML,
tiki ml and more... 

But nothing that's in a hurry due to heavy housekeeping ;)

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Chipp Walters
> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 5:48 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Revdocs on a wiki
> 
> Timothy Miller wrote:
> 
> 
> > The engineering team must certainly begin the documentation 
> process. 
> > If it's a simple application, then maybe the docs written by the 
> > engineers are as good as they can be.
> > 
> > But if it's a very complex application, or development tool, or 
> > whatever, then the documentation is *never* optimal.
> > 
> > If the engineering department had unlimited resources, and 
> the desire 
> > to engage in continuous quality improvement, then they would likely 
> > write better documentation than users on a wiki.
> > 
> > But no engineering department has unlimited resources. Beyond that, 
> > continuous quality improvement on documentation is an infinite task 
> > that would not appeal to many engineers. Writing more than 
> one version 
> > of the same entry, adjusting to the sophistication of the user -- I 
> > don't think many engineers would like that.
> 
> Tim,
> 
> You might want to reread what Dan was 'ranting' about. He's 
> talking about professional writers, not engineers. Jeanne 
> DeVoto (the original revDocs writers) and Dan Shafer are both 
> professional writers, each with multiple technical books and 
> manuals published. Back in the HyperCard days, they were both 
> well-published and well-read authors. I'm not sure I know 
> *any* engineers who can write as well.
> 
> Though, after seeing Sivakatirswami's post regarding PMwiki 
> and PDF's, I might be more inclined to consider a Rev backed 
> wiki experiment. The few wiki's I've been involved with in 
> the past were:
> 
> 1) Way too slow
> 2) Not well organized
> 3) Way too slow
> 4) Never really got to a finished state where they were really helpful
> 
> Did I mention how slow they were? :-)
> 
> But, with the dedicated users here on this list, and some 
> basic housekeeping rules (that means limited TAOO references 
> Xavier! ;-), it might be interesting to see what happens. 
> Perhaps with the shared enthusiasm, Kevin et al might 
> greenlight a test wiki.
> 
> Even if RR did, I suspect there would be a lot of time doing 
> front end analysis of how to organize the content so that it 
> can be reused. One of the good things about the docs in the 
> current XML state (not the doc viewer, but the underlying 
> data structure) is that it can be repurposed quickly. This is 
> great because many different users including Jerry Daniels, 
> Richard Gaskin, Wouter, Geoff Canyon and  myself have been 
> able to use the XML to create different ways at looking at 
> the documentation.
> 
> Some of these are free, others cost. But the beauty in XML is 
> that it doesn't 'lock' the content inside a display 
> presentation format. I assume wiki's can do the same thing.
> 
> best,
> 
> Chipp
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Oct 28 00:31:37 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 21:31:37 -0700
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <6C89A840-E04C-445B-8E9A-CB063B56CCC6@writeme.com>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>
	<p06200702bf870785478b@[10.0.1.2]>
	<B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>
	<6C89A840-E04C-445B-8E9A-CB063B56CCC6@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <E2573A87-5BBA-4BB7-BD35-F351DEB9B417@danshafer.com>

I don't know, Dennis. Frankly, I haven't read the thread in its  
entirety. So my proposal is made in a semi-vacuum. If there are  
features people see as crucial that seem not to be envisioned by what  
I propose, I'd be happy to look into them individually.

On Oct 27, 2005, at 7:11 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:

> Having read the list of desired features on this thread, which  
> features do you think would have to be compromised with the  
> solution you are proposing?
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Oct 28 00:32:16 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 21:32:16 -0700
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <p06200703bf873856b8cd@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>
	<p06200702bf870785478b@[10.0.1.2]>
	<B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>
	<p06200703bf873856b8cd@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <A8DD8FD3-318A-4680-BFDC-C2801E93740C@danshafer.com>

You missed the point. MY comment was marked as a rant, not yours!

On Oct 27, 2005, at 8:29 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:

> Sorry you think it was a rant.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From stevef at upnaway.com  Fri Oct 28 00:54:31 2005
From: stevef at upnaway.com (Flavel Steve)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:54:31 +0800
Subject: Programming tools philosophy.
In-Reply-To: <12140413301.20051027192645@ahsoftware.net>
References: <436021A8.8080000@tweedly.net>
	<12850053653.20051026222437@ahsoftware.net>
	<4AF48345-DDD9-44E4-94B4-1401A841E6F3@upnaway.com>
	<302206713.20051027084959@ahsoftware.net>
	<43614054.4010408@tweedly.net>
	<12140413301.20051027192645@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <B4AE6110-42E8-48E8-96B2-9451092044A3@upnaway.com>


Steve  Flavel



On 28/10/2005, at 10:26 AM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Alex-
>
> Nice. And that elapsed time is amazing. If I'm reading the statistics
> properly, your program performed 208 divisions out of 229 trials, so
> 21 attempts were rejected due to repeated digits. And 773 attempts
> were rejected because they contained 0, 4, or 5.
>
> But did you really mean
>
>
>>             if c is in char i+1 to -i of tNum then
>>
>
Alex

My solution looked at all the permutations and took around 900 ms

One suggestion to improve your very elegant solution

   --repeat while  tNum mod c <>0
         subtract tNum mod c from tNum
         --end repeat

No need for the repeat loop.  With this refinement I get it in around  
12 ms

Steve Flavel
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 28 01:58:16 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 00:58:16 -0500
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <p06200703bf873856b8cd@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>	<p06200702bf870785478b@[10.0.1.2]>	<B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>
	<p06200703bf873856b8cd@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <4361BDF8.5040308@hyperactivesw.com>

Timothy Miller wrote:

> Sure, some users would bloat entries. But then, other users would prune 
> them. When I look at the wikipedia, the entries I see are remarkably 
> concise.

Just to play devil's advocate:

<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/18/wikipedia_quality_problem/>


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Fri Oct 28 04:18:19 2005
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 04:18:19 EDT
Subject: Ensuring numeric input
Message-ID: <e1.1f2a17ed.309338cb@aol.com>

Ooops. Late again. My standard numberField  solution is similar to Michael's 
but simpler as it doesn't need to handle  multiple lines. It does, hoever, 
validate pre- rather than post-process and  restores the old value if necessary...

local lOldValue

on  openField
put me into lOldValue
end openField

on keyDown  tKey
if (tKey=".") AND ("." is in me) then exit keyDown
else  if (tKey="-") AND (me="") then pass keyDown
else if tKey is in  "0123456789." then pass keyDown
end keyDown

on closeField
set the numberFormat to "0.00"
put line 1 of me into me
if  me is NOT a number then put lOldValue into me
else add 0 to me
end  closeField

/H
FLCo
Home of the Scripter's  Scrapbook
www.FlexibleLearning.com/ssbk.htm  



From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Oct 28 04:29:33 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:29:33 +0200
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <4361622A.90702@chipp.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>	<EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>	<43612449.5090908@chipp.com>
	<5E58C3A2-BF6F-4A7D-B419-892DAC5BFFB6@hindu.org>
	<4361622A.90702@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <6AE5AEE9-527B-4E52-8ABB-BC60F3114380@major-k.de>

Hi Chipp,

> Sivakatirswami,
>
> ...
> But that link is very interesting. In fact I've got a complete GUI  
> written around the openSource version of HTMLDOC. Currently it only  
> works on Windows, but I seem to remember handing off the Mac/Linux  
> port to Klaus?

To Mr. Major? No, not that i could remember.

I actually do not follow this thread, but this kinda jumped into my  
eye ;-)

> I'm not sure as it's been awhile....
> ...
> best,
>
> Chipp
>
>
> Sivakatirswami wrote:
>
>> www.pmwiki.org offers some solutions to most of these    
>> problems...check it out the cookbook recipes for PDF export of  
>> the  wiki pages.

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From paolo.mazza at neol.it  Fri Oct 28 05:44:54 2005
From: paolo.mazza at neol.it (paolo mazza)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:44:54 +0200
Subject: broadcaster
In-Reply-To: <13FD732E-DF63-4CA8-8ADF-3084676304E5@danshafer.com>
References: <13FD732E-DF63-4CA8-8ADF-3084676304E5@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <fc.000f58e500a361f13b9aca003c180774.a361f7@fc.neol.it>

I know revolution can do almost everything....but I wonder if I can
develope a broadcaster using revolution+Quicktime.
I mean .. I need my application to broadcast a video streaming to a
quicktime file .
Best regards,
Paolo Mazza



From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Oct 28 06:28:13 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:28:13 +0100
Subject: Programming tools philosophy.
In-Reply-To: <B4AE6110-42E8-48E8-96B2-9451092044A3@upnaway.com>
References: <436021A8.8080000@tweedly.net>	<12850053653.20051026222437@ahsoftware.net>	<4AF48345-DDD9-44E4-94B4-1401A841E6F3@upnaway.com>	<302206713.20051027084959@ahsoftware.net>	<43614054.4010408@tweedly.net>	<12140413301.20051027192645@ahsoftware.net>
	<B4AE6110-42E8-48E8-96B2-9451092044A3@upnaway.com>
Message-ID: <4361FD3D.5060003@tweedly.net>

Flavel Steve wrote:

>
>>>             if c is in char i+1 to -i of tNum then
>>>
>>
[Mark - nope - should have been ".... i+1 to -1 of tNum" in both cases.

> Alex
>
> My solution looked at all the permutations and took around 900 ms
>
> One suggestion to improve your very elegant solution
>
>   --repeat while  tNum mod c <>0
>         subtract tNum mod c from tNum
>         --end repeat
>
> No need for the repeat loop.  With this refinement I get it in around  
> 12 ms
>
You're right. My second attempt (sent late last night) did a variant of 
that (taking it one step further and used the "lowest common multiple of 
all digits considered so far" as the step value). Hence < 1 ms time.

I guess the end result of applying these techniques would be to analyze 
it completely, resulting in the following program

> on mouseUp
>     put "9867312" into msg
>     -- can't have a 5 because ....
>     -- can't have a 4 because ....
>     -- can't be > .... because of need to reduce to 0 mod 7
>     -- must be ....
>     -- and more complete analysis until all the programming fun has 
> gone out of it.
> end mouseUp
>

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/149 - Release Date: 25/10/2005



From david at openpartnership.net  Fri Oct 28 06:36:16 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:36:16 +0200
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <43612449.5090908@chipp.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>
	<43612449.5090908@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <86CC891E-85A6-4D8F-9372-528A2C3511C1@openpartnership.net>


On 27 Oct 2005, at 21:02, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Perhaps I don't know enough about wiki's, but it would sure be nice  
> if they could organize data in a form which could be printed in a  
> real-book format (and had an 'export to PDF' button which did just  
> that, including TOC and index).
>
> While they do provide a nice 'random-access' interface (search &  
> find), I'm not sure they can really take the place of good serial  
> documentation, which has a beginning, middle and end. And it sure  
> seems like *that* is most needed as well. In fact, I believe the  
> original RevDocs (mostly written by Jeanne DeVoto) were written to  
> accomplish both ways of accessing information.
>
> Perhaps Dan Shafer or Jeaane DeVoto might weigh in on this topic as  
> both are accomplished documentation writers.

This is possible now in a number of ways. And yes Dan - maybe you  
should weigh in here :)



From david at openpartnership.net  Fri Oct 28 06:44:54 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:44:54 +0200
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <p06200702bf870785478b@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>
	<p06200702bf870785478b@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <C2FA85EF-9AD2-48F4-97A5-6CD8C2647F4D@openpartnership.net>

Well said!

On 28 Oct 2005, at 01:12, Timothy Miller wrote:

> I have mixed feelings about what I'm about to say. I expect that  
> the new docs will be a big improvement. They might be excellent.  
> Rev deserves a lot of credit for efforts to enhance the docs. I  
> don't want to see that deprecated. I suspect Rev cares about their  
> users more than most technology companies I could name.
>
> OTOH, in my opinion, it's time for the concept of "continuous  
> quality improvement" came to the world of technical documentation.  
> And, being a Rev loyalist, I'd love to see Rev do it first, maybe  
> with a Rev interface, if feasible.
>
> (It would be totally cool if a commercial product, intended for  
> this purpose, could be built mostly with Rev. It would have to be  
> extensible and flexible. But this seems feasible -- not that I know  
> diddly squat about that sort of thing.)
>
> With a wiki, continuous quality improvement could mean, "it gets a  
> little better every five seconds." (For that matter, the Wikipedia,  
> today, might get a little better every five *milliseconds*!)
>
> Some published docs are better than others, but none get anywhere  
> near optimal. Technical documentation is inevitably obsolete the  
> day it is published. There's always room for updated information,  
> clearer explanations, different contexts, more examples, more "see  
> also" links, better search capacity, and so on. All those little  
> improvements really add up over time. In addition, hyperlink  
> technology (ahh... my old friend, HyperCard) can greatly enhance  
> convenience and real-world useability. Multiple forms of indexing,  
> for instance. Terse, less terse and verbose versions of the same  
> topic, for another. (The beginner will likely want the verbose  
> version. The experienced user will not want or need to wade through  
> it.) I've never seen hyperlink technology live up to its potential,  
> even though it's been in use for fifteen years or more. A docWiki  
> like the one proposed could be the first time. (Wikipedia is  
> already pretty good, I guess. I don't use it that much.)
>
> I have some doubt about whether it would ever be profitable for a  
> private company to write docs like those that could arise  
> spontaneously from a wiki. Printed on paper, they might fill 10,000  
> pages, and would still lack the convenience of hyperlinks, search  
> capacity, and so on.
>
> When docs arise spontaneously from a wiki, they will be much  
> cheaper to produce -- almost free, after the early drafts, except  
> for keeping out vandalism and ignorance. And users might also  
> police the vandalism and ignorance at no cost (possibly). For the  
> manufacturer, how good could it get?! Even if a company tried to  
> write optimal docs and practice continuous quality improvement in  
> the docs, users, given the opportunity, could always improve  
> whatever the engineering and technical writing staff came up with,  
> with no publication delay.


From david at openpartnership.net  Fri Oct 28 06:54:39 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:54:39 +0200
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <4361622A.90702@chipp.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>	<EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>	<43612449.5090908@chipp.com>
	<5E58C3A2-BF6F-4A7D-B419-892DAC5BFFB6@hindu.org>
	<4361622A.90702@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <37375732-E4F8-4356-ADCC-1FE08751B64B@openpartnership.net>

Good question:

On 28 Oct 2005, at 01:26, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Question:
>
> How would one manage 'wiki-bloat' where different people post so  
> much commentary about a function or handler or feature, that it  
> becomes impossible to navigate through? Would special 'editors'  
> need be appointed? If a wiki could be converted into a PDF, I'm not  
> so sure I like the idea of a single PDF document with *everyones*  
> thoughts on a topic.

The short answer is not to do a standard wiki but a structured wiki.  
This is a new area - so no accepted methods - here are my thoughts:

     1) It is a bad idea to close off the opportunity for input

     2) It should be open to everyone.

     3) It is a bad idea (with a few exceptions - ie dictionaries  
with dedicated communities behind it such as wikipedia) to allow the  
structure to evolve into something you hope will be readable

     4) Most wiki tools have terrible support for structure (see  
TikiWiki TOC) - it is against there philosophy

     5) You can use social filtering - but most tools are so far  
inadequate (ie most viewed or commented pages)

     6) Don't even try to do a conventional moderated editorial  
unless you plan to fund it properly

     7) Think of using a "page rank" type system of referencing pages

     8) Think of a quick way to allow users to indicate whether a  
page is ready to be published, or work in progress



From david at openpartnership.net  Fri Oct 28 06:57:46 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:57:46 +0200
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>
	<p06200702bf870785478b@[10.0.1.2]>
	<B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <FD3F59F8-6E51-4939-AB06-F83B02A7FBA2@openpartnership.net>

On 28 Oct 2005, at 02:53, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Several years ago, I headed up a project which involved an  
> extensive documentation effort and this same issue was raised. I  
> like the way we solved it. Furthermore, I happen to have access to  
> the tool and a server where it could be deployed and would make  
> both freely available if: (a) at least one or two others would be  
> willing to share site management and editing chores; and (b) the  
> community thinks it's a good idea. The approach we used was akin to  
> a discussion board. Each section of the docs was a topic on the  
> board. Everyone who was a member (and that term could be loosely  
> defined, of course) could add their comments to a section of the  
> docs. There was also a general topic area where people could post  
> questions and suggestions about the docs in their totality.  
> Periodically, an editor assigned to a given section would go  
> through the comments, incorporate the suggestions that made sense,  
> edit the topic, create a new topic on that section, hibernate the  
> old, and move comments that remained relevant to the new topic area.
>
> At the same time there was a way for any interested party to: (a)  
> see the docs without the comments; (b) navigate using only the  
> "official" docs; and (c) view and print (and save as PDF) all or  
> some of the currently official documentation. This model is called  
> "managed open collaboration" and I think it presents the best of  
> all possible worlds in terms of encouraging and incorporating  
> useful input without disrupting the accuracy or utility of the  
> original and modified documentation.

Yes - wish i could write like that :)


From david at openpartnership.net  Fri Oct 28 07:01:46 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:01:46 +0200
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <43619F85.3040001@chipp.com>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>	<p06200702bf870785478b@[10.0.1.2]>	<B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>
	<p06200703bf873856b8cd@[10.0.1.2]> <43619F85.3040001@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <7FF800E9-701B-4BBA-B2A9-229684F36A27@openpartnership.net>

On 28 Oct 2005, at 05:48, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Some of these are free, others cost. But the beauty in XML is that  
> it doesn't 'lock' the content inside a display presentation format.  
> I assume wiki's can do the same thing.

Yes - and this solves the flexible pdf export side of things much  
better than most of the php hacks. Jira and the accompanying wiki -  
Confluence - i believe is built on native XML file structures and  
allows very reliable pdf export.



From david at openpartnership.net  Fri Oct 28 07:04:36 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:04:36 +0200
Subject: broadcaster
In-Reply-To: <fc.000f58e500a361f13b9aca003c180774.a361f7@fc.neol.it>
References: <13FD732E-DF63-4CA8-8ADF-3084676304E5@danshafer.com>
	<fc.000f58e500a361f13b9aca003c180774.a361f7@fc.neol.it>
Message-ID: <EF3D4F45-1261-4D5B-AB44-4A189557A8E2@openpartnership.net>

I am working in this area at them moment and it is possible if you  
want to use Rev to create a SMIL file, or control a Linux based  
streaming solution via the command line...

On 28 Oct 2005, at 11:44, paolo mazza wrote:

> I know revolution can do almost everything....but I wonder if I can
> develope a broadcaster using revolution+Quicktime.
> I mean .. I need my application to broadcast a video streaming to a
> quicktime file .
> Best regards,
> Paolo Mazza
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Fri Oct 28 07:14:00 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 04:14:00 -0700
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <4361BDF8.5040308@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>
	<p06200702bf870785478b@[10.0.1.2]>
	<B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>
	<p06200703bf873856b8cd@[10.0.1.2]> <4361BDF8.5040308@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <p06230900bf87b8031a0f@[192.168.1.104]>

And I've heard in the case of BIG mistakes, a good Wiki can be 
'rolled-back' easily by the admin and the offender unsubscribed if 
there's mischief.


>Timothy Miller wrote:
>
>>Sure, some users would bloat entries. But then, other users would 
>>prune them. When I look at the wikipedia, the entries I see are 
>>remarkably concise.

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From david at openpartnership.net  Fri Oct 28 07:15:25 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:15:25 +0200
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <4361BDF8.5040308@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>	<p06200702bf870785478b@[10.0.1.2]>	<B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>
	<p06200703bf873856b8cd@[10.0.1.2]>
	<4361BDF8.5040308@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <1105306C-7244-4591-BD47-B620687AE555@openpartnership.net>

On 28 Oct 2005, at 07:58, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Just to play devil's advocate:
>
> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/18/wikipedia_quality_problem/>

Yes - good article - one of the very rare anti-wikipedia articles.  
Goes nowhere to say why or to suggest solutions though.

This is a side point but if you have seen the social side of  
wikipedia and how it has had to change from open collaboration as the  
organisation scaled - you would understand the "why" - the legal  
structures they adopted litterally (en)force the insiders to hold  
onto their position as early adopters, and pit themselves against  
real experts that come along later - all too painfully predictable.



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Fri Oct 28 07:16:39 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:16:39 +0200
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <p06230900bf87b8031a0f@[192.168.1.104]>
Message-ID: <OF327C16BE.6ECDE0D0-ONC12570A8.003DD291-C12570A8.003DF2FB@deutsche-boerse.com>

you can also enforce that users log in before editing, you can restrict 
the rights to comments, arcticles,
changes etc...

And you can also setup groups which have special rights to do this or 
that... 

But from experience, leaving anyone to modify anything is not a good idea 
- even comments...

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 28/10/2005 13:14:00:

> And I've heard in the case of BIG mistakes, a good Wiki can be 
> 'rolled-back' easily by the admin and the offender unsubscribed if 
> there's mischief.
> 
> 
> >Timothy Miller wrote:
> >
> >>Sure, some users would bloat entries. But then, other users would 
> >>prune them. When I look at the wikipedia, the entries I see are 
> >>remarkably concise.
> 
> -- 
> stephen barncard
> s a n  f r a n c i s c o
> - - -  - - - - - - - - -
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
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its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From david at openpartnership.net  Fri Oct 28 07:18:07 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:18:07 +0200
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <p06230900bf87b8031a0f@[192.168.1.104]>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>
	<p06200702bf870785478b@[10.0.1.2]>
	<B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>
	<p06200703bf873856b8cd@[10.0.1.2]>
	<4361BDF8.5040308@hyperactivesw.com>
	<p06230900bf87b8031a0f@[192.168.1.104]>
Message-ID: <8855D8D0-34CF-4990-9BB9-E24F2168983D@openpartnership.net>

I really would recommend you have some fun and go and delete a  
wikipedia entry. I did this a couple of years ago - and have done it  
once or twice more as a "demo". usually corrected within 2 minutes -  
sometimes as much as 5 minutes - really quite amazing!

On 28 Oct 2005, at 13:14, Stephen Barncard wrote:

> And I've heard in the case of BIG mistakes, a good Wiki can be  
> 'rolled-back' easily by the admin and the offender unsubscribed if  
> there's mischief.


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Fri Oct 28 08:52:08 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:52:08 +0100
Subject: Finding the Stack that Started Up a Stack
In-Reply-To: <fc.000f58e500a361f13b9aca003c180774.a361f7@fc.neol.it>
References: <13FD732E-DF63-4CA8-8ADF-3084676304E5@danshafer.com>
	<fc.000f58e500a361f13b9aca003c180774.a361f7@fc.neol.it>
Message-ID: <a05210600bf87ce246214@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

A quick question, If I have two stacks StackA and StackB:

A script in this StackA executes:

go to stack "StackB"

In StackB (in one of the preOpen or open handlers) is there any way 
of finding out that StackB was run by StackA? I would like to know 
the current Stack that caused StackB to get control?

Thanks a lot
All the Best
Dave


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Fri Oct 28 08:57:38 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:57:38 +0200
Subject: Finding the Stack that Started Up a Stack
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bf87ce246214@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <OF54456DDB.03F48E16-ONC12570A8.0046E357-C12570A8.004731AB@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Dave,

the best way to do that is the following:

- grab line 2 of "the windows" - but there's no guarantee this was the 
stack that did it.

- Put a frontscript that watches the closestack or suspendstack events and 
records which stack was last... This may not work if a lock messages is in 
effect...

- Use an alternate handler (on gomystack) or within your handler, pass a 
parameter that says which was the stack that sent the message...

- Similar to the last, use a global to track navigation history... 
Probably the easiest...

cheers
Xavier


use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 28/10/2005 14:52:08:

> Hi,
> 
> A quick question, If I have two stacks StackA and StackB:
> 
> A script in this StackA executes:
> 
> go to stack "StackB"
> 
> In StackB (in one of the preOpen or open handlers) is there any way 
> of finding out that StackB was run by StackA? I would like to know 
> the current Stack that caused StackB to get control?
> 
> Thanks a lot
> All the Best
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Fri Oct 28 09:36:08 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:36:08 +0200
Subject: AW: Finding the Stack that Started Up a Stack
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bf87ce246214@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCAEOADKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hi David,

if you put

answer the last word of the long name of the recent card

in an openStack handler, it should give you the name of the stack.

All the best
Thomas


--
Thomas Fischer
Salzburg 

> -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]Im Auftrag von David
> Burgun
> Gesendet: Freitag, 28. Oktober 2005 14:52
> An: How to use Revolution
> Betreff: Finding the Stack that Started Up a Stack
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> A quick question, If I have two stacks StackA and StackB:
> 
> A script in this StackA executes:
> 
> go to stack "StackB"
> 
> In StackB (in one of the preOpen or open handlers) is there any way 
> of finding out that StackB was run by StackA? I would like to know 
> the current Stack that caused StackB to get control?
> 
> Thanks a lot
> All the Best
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct 28 09:40:10 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 06:40:10 -0700
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <43612449.5090908@chipp.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>	<EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>
	<43612449.5090908@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <43622A3A.1050703@fourthworld.com>


There's been a tremendous amount of discussion about wikis here over the 
last 48 hours.  Clearly a lot of good energy that can be put to 
productive use for the benefit of all.

Given the great many details needed to be worked out to move this 
forward, much much more discussion will be needed.

Rather than continuing to use the use-revolution list as the working 
group for this project, could a dedicated list be considered?

You're welcome to use the RevDocs list for this:
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RevDocs/>

Most of the dozen or so people here who've expressed an interest in 
continuing to work on this project are already subscribed there, and the 
original mandate for that list has long since been abandoned so it's 
free for your use if you want it.

I just posted a message there to help facilitate the migration from a 
good idea into a working project.

I look forward to seeing the group produce a valuable addition to the 
family of Rev learning tools.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct 28 09:41:57 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 06:41:57 -0700
Subject: AW: Finding the Stack that Started Up a Stack
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCAEOADKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
References: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCAEOADKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <43622AA5.6030105@fourthworld.com>

Thomas Fischer wrote:
> Hi David,
> 
> if you put
> 
> answer the last word of the long name of the recent card
> 
> in an openStack handler, it should give you the name of the stack.

Brilliantly simple!

Bravo!

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From kurtkaufman at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 28 10:04:48 2005
From: kurtkaufman at hotmail.com (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:04:48 +0000
Subject: 2.6.1 very slow on Win XP?
In-Reply-To: <20051028131205.EFD16825585@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-F369DEEBD1ACEFE38E1BC46AC6B0@phx.gbl>

Rev. 2.6.1 is *very* slow to startup on my 2 gHz Win XP box (at the point at 
which menus and plugins are loaded it appears to all but hang). Also, 
opening stacks and saving stacks is slow, but not always---depends on the 
stack.
Standard 2.6.1 installation; no 3rd-party add-ons, etc. I do not remember 
whether I used 2.6 on the same system, so I don't know whether the problem 
is restricted to 2.6.1.  I don't really have the time to investigate this 
fully, so I was just wondering whether anyone else has noticed the same in 
general.
Thanks, Kurt




From gregory.lypny at videotron.ca  Fri Oct 28 10:19:11 2005
From: gregory.lypny at videotron.ca (Gregory Lypny)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:19:11 -0400
Subject: Changing Font Style of Text Already in a Field
Message-ID: <4F58DF4B-A461-4311-92AD-0A7E7F3C3FAC@videotron.ca>

Hello Everyone,

     If I have a field full of text in, say, Geneva, and want it  
changed to Lucida Grande, how do I do it with a handler?  I've tried
     set the textFont of fld "X" to "Lucida Grande"
but that only changes a text property of the field itself but not the  
appearance of text already in it.

     Gregory


From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Fri Oct 28 10:19:59 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:19:59 +0200
Subject: AW: answer file with defaultPath
In-Reply-To: <AE84AAA1-7B8D-4217-A702-4AB00FEE7DAD@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCEEOCDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hi Dan,

> But I must say that on OS X 10.4.2, it also fails to honor the path  
> passed to it as a parameter. It seems to behave as the docs describe  
> it should behave without a path argument being passed.
> 
I tried using 
  set the defaultfolder to myPath
but found that
- the defaultFolder does not seem to influence the folder
  that is first shown with the "answer file" command.
- I couldn't change the defaultfolder.
  A subsequent
   answer the defaultfolder
  showed it to be unchanged (Revolution's main folder). 

Tested with Rev 2.6.1 on Mac 10.4.2

All the best
Thomas


--
Thomas Fischer
Salzburg 



From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Fri Oct 28 10:30:00 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:30:00 +0200
Subject: AW: AW: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine
In-Reply-To: <6EA38C6C-6DFB-4562-B32F-31C45F49C9E4@scarlet.be>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCAEODDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hi Wouter,

you wrote

> These timing tests are not completely fair because:
> 
>    while char 1 of testString is space  ->  removes only space from  
> front if any
>      delete char 1 of testString
>    end repeat
> 
> word 1 to -1 of testString   -> removes tabs, spaces and returns from  
> front and back of string if any
> token 1 to -1 of testString  -> removes tabs, spaces, hard spaces,  
> and returns from front and back of string if any
> 
> You compare time it takes for frontal removal of space if any with  
> time it takes for frontal and back removal of tab and space if any or  
> tab, space and hard space (semicolon and return) if any.
> To make it more fair, the time testing handlers should be equalized  
> on the removal of tabs, spaces and hard spaces from front and back of  
> a string.
> 
> On the other hand this gives an indication of which way to use in  
> what case.

I only wanted to give some information to use for a decision in a script.
So if you just want to trim spaces or any of a bunch of characters from the front _or_ the end,

 "while char 1 of testString is space"
or
 "while char 1 of testString is in myCollection"
will do a good job and be crystal clear.
"Token" is surprisingly slow, and "word" is very effective if you can control the situation.

> word 1 to -1 of testString   -> removes tabs, spaces and returns from  

But do you know what you get if you ask for

get word 1 to -1 of quote & "    My test with lots of spaces at the end     "?

All the best
Thomas


--
Thomas Fischer
Salzburg 



From see3d at writeme.com  Fri Oct 28 10:33:09 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:33:09 -0400
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <43622A3A.1050703@fourthworld.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>
	<43612449.5090908@chipp.com> <43622A3A.1050703@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <3A2844C0-9427-4291-A110-CCBE461E5C52@writeme.com>

Richard,

I am game for this.  I just signed up for the RevDocs list.  Let's  
just make sure that this list gets the occasional post about the  
progress so others know there is a place to discuss it.

Dennis

On Oct 28, 2005, at 9:40 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>
> There's been a tremendous amount of discussion about wikis here  
> over the last 48 hours.  Clearly a lot of good energy that can be  
> put to productive use for the benefit of all.
>
> Given the great many details needed to be worked out to move this  
> forward, much much more discussion will be needed.
>
> Rather than continuing to use the use-revolution list as the  
> working group for this project, could a dedicated list be considered?
>
> You're welcome to use the RevDocs list for this:
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RevDocs/>
>
> Most of the dozen or so people here who've expressed an interest in  
> continuing to work on this project are already subscribed there,  
> and the original mandate for that list has long since been  
> abandoned so it's free for your use if you want it.
>
> I just posted a message there to help facilitate the migration from  
> a good idea into a working project.
>
> I look forward to seeing the group produce a valuable addition to  
> the family of Rev learning tools.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Managing Editor, revJournal
>  _______________________________________________________
>  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Oct 28 10:41:03 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:41:03 +0200
Subject: 2.6.1 very slow on Win XP?
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-F369DEEBD1ACEFE38E1BC46AC6B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20051028140731.9CDF3825473@mail.runrev.com>

runs fast here on xp, 2k, 2k3...

Opening Rev over networks can be horrible though...

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Kurt Kaufman
> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 4:05 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: 2.6.1 very slow on Win XP?
> 
> Rev. 2.6.1 is *very* slow to startup on my 2 gHz Win XP box 
> (at the point at which menus and plugins are loaded it 
> appears to all but hang). Also, opening stacks and saving 
> stacks is slow, but not always---depends on the stack.
> Standard 2.6.1 installation; no 3rd-party add-ons, etc. I do 
> not remember whether I used 2.6 on the same system, so I 
> don't know whether the problem is restricted to 2.6.1.  I 
> don't really have the time to investigate this fully, so I 
> was just wondering whether anyone else has noticed the same 
> in general.
> Thanks, Kurt
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct 28 10:37:53 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 07:37:53 -0700
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <3A2844C0-9427-4291-A110-CCBE461E5C52@writeme.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>	<EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>	<43612449.5090908@chipp.com>
	<43622A3A.1050703@fourthworld.com>
	<3A2844C0-9427-4291-A110-CCBE461E5C52@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <436237C1.2040404@fourthworld.com>

Dennis Brown wrote:

 > On Oct 28, 2005, at 9:40 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
 >>
 >> There's been a tremendous amount of discussion about wikis here  over
 >> the last 48 hours.  Clearly a lot of good energy that can be put to
 >> productive use for the benefit of all.
 >>
 >> Given the great many details needed to be worked out to move this
 >> forward, much much more discussion will be needed.
 >>
 >> Rather than continuing to use the use-revolution list as the  working
 >> group for this project, could a dedicated list be considered?
 >>
 >> You're welcome to use the RevDocs list for this:
 >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RevDocs/>
...
 > Richard,
 >
 > I am game for this.  I just signed up for the RevDocs list.
 > Let's  just make sure that this list gets the occasional
 > post about the  progress so others know there is a place to
 > discuss it.

Good idea. Something along the lines of a periodic progress report from 
that group here would be useful.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  __________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From Signe.Sanne at roman.uib.no  Fri Oct 28 10:39:30 2005
From: Signe.Sanne at roman.uib.no (Signe Marie Sanne)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:39:30 +0200
Subject: Changing Font Style of Text Already in a Field
In-Reply-To: <4F58DF4B-A461-4311-92AD-0A7E7F3C3FAC@videotron.ca>
References: <4F58DF4B-A461-4311-92AD-0A7E7F3C3FAC@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <43623822.5070005@roman.uib.no>

Gregory Lypny skrev:
> Hello Everyone,
> 
>     If I have a field full of text in, say, Geneva, and want it  changed 
> to Lucida Grande, how do I do it with a handler?  I've tried
>     set the textFont of fld "X" to "Lucida Grande"
> but that only changes a text property of the field itself but not the  
> appearance of text already in it.
> 
set the textfont of char 1 to -1 of fld "X" to to "Lucida Grande"
-- 
Signe Marie Sanne

1. amanuensis/Senior lecturer
Romansk institutt                 	Tlf. 	+47 55 58 21 27
?isteins gt. 1				Epost: 	signe.sanne at roman.uib.no
Universitetet i Bergen

http://www.hf.uib.no/mlab/Info/sms.html


From heather at runrev.com  Fri Oct 28 10:40:07 2005
From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Nagey)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:40:07 +0100
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki 
Message-ID: <7c2e13b170234e098bf4da08a39b3761@runrev.com>

Dear Folks,

The energy and enthusiasm of this list is a great resource. We want to 
do everything we can to encourage it.

A lot of good sense has been spoken regarding how to set up and manage 
a revdocs wiki successfully. With a view to facilitating the effort, 
whilst still retaining control of content to monitor for quality and 
retain copyright, we propose to set up a runrev revdocs wiki. This may 
take us a little time to get off the ground, please be patient. If 
interested parties would like to write to me off list, we can discuss 
the matter further. When the wiki is up and running and ready for 
contributions, we will let the list know.

Regards,

Heather

Heather Nagey, Customer Support Manager
Runtime Revolution Ltd
www.runrev.com



From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Oct 28 10:40:14 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:40:14 +0200
Subject: Changing Font Style of Text Already in a Field
In-Reply-To: <4F58DF4B-A461-4311-92AD-0A7E7F3C3FAC@videotron.ca>
References: <4F58DF4B-A461-4311-92AD-0A7E7F3C3FAC@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <012313DF-2395-41C7-8614-3D028ADC0D78@major-k.de>

Hi Gregory,

> Hello Everyone,
>
>     If I have a field full of text in, say, Geneva, and want it  
> changed to Lucida Grande, how do I do it with a handler?  I've tried
>     set the textFont of fld "X" to "Lucida Grande"
> but that only changes a text property of the field itself but not  
> the appearance of text already in it.

try:

set the textFont of char 1 to -1 of fld "X" to "Lucida Grande"

>     Gregory

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From see3d at writeme.com  Fri Oct 28 11:21:24 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:21:24 -0400
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <7c2e13b170234e098bf4da08a39b3761@runrev.com>
References: <7c2e13b170234e098bf4da08a39b3761@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <9D316881-FE99-42A0-A2E9-DC15A7662F8D@writeme.com>

Heather,

Thank you for your (RunRev's) unequivocal endorsement of this long  
time desire from this list.  I believe it is in RunRev's best  
interest to take the leadership role and apparently you agree.   
Please be sure to solicit input INTERACTIVELY with the "interested  
parties" during the specification phase so that it can become both  
the best doc tool and one that people on this list will enjoy using.   
The most active posters, and the most experienced scripters are the  
ones who would add the most value to a wiki.  The most inexperienced  
scripters are the ones who would derive the most benefit --especially  
the ones who don't sign up for this list!  Both the experienced and  
inexperienced scripters that are on this list will likely be the  
catalyst (through their questions) for driving new content.

A well managed docs wiki can become an effective sales tool for  
spreading the Revolution to the masses.   Having a single place to go  
to for answers to basic questions about using Revolution, ideas for  
how to start a project, sticky problems, examples, etc. can be  
addressed along with links to specific resources like the appropriate  
tutorials, tools and solutions on third party sites, and this list  
can make such a wiki the cornerstone of new customer support.

Please count me in as one who will actively support and promote this  
effort in any way I can.

Dennis


On Oct 28, 2005, at 10:40 AM, Heather Nagey wrote:

> Dear Folks,
>
> The energy and enthusiasm of this list is a great resource. We want  
> to do everything we can to encourage it.
>
> A lot of good sense has been spoken regarding how to set up and  
> manage a revdocs wiki successfully. With a view to facilitating the  
> effort, whilst still retaining control of content to monitor for  
> quality and retain copyright, we propose to set up a runrev revdocs  
> wiki. This may take us a little time to get off the ground, please  
> be patient. If interested parties would like to write to me off  
> list, we can discuss the matter further. When the wiki is up and  
> running and ready for contributions, we will let the list know.
>
> Regards,
>
> Heather
>
> Heather Nagey, Customer Support Manager
> Runtime Revolution Ltd
> www.runrev.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From david at openpartnership.net  Fri Oct 28 11:29:02 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:29:02 +0200
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <9D316881-FE99-42A0-A2E9-DC15A7662F8D@writeme.com>
References: <7c2e13b170234e098bf4da08a39b3761@runrev.com>
	<9D316881-FE99-42A0-A2E9-DC15A7662F8D@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <90CE1B2C-6C46-4794-8BF5-BB471B0A33DC@openpartnership.net>

On 28 Oct 2005, at 17:21, Dennis Brown wrote:

> Heather,
>
> Thank you for your (RunRev's) unequivocal endorsement of this long  
> time desire from this list.  I believe it is in RunRev's best  
> interest to take the leadership role and apparently you agree.   
> Please be sure to solicit input INTERACTIVELY with the "interested  
> parties" during the specification phase so that it can become both  
> the best doc tool and one that people on this list will enjoy using.

I would second that. You cannot centrally manage a community  
documentation process - only facilitate. Why not join the Yahoo group  
and discuss this with the small number interested parties as a whole  
- not solicit individual emails?


From see3d at writeme.com  Fri Oct 28 11:31:22 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:31:22 -0400
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <3A2844C0-9427-4291-A110-CCBE461E5C52@writeme.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>
	<43612449.5090908@chipp.com> <43622A3A.1050703@fourthworld.com>
	<3A2844C0-9427-4291-A110-CCBE461E5C52@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <0A2AC2E4-A5A3-4467-9340-8C39B73C89F7@writeme.com>

All,

Now that RunRev has committed to create and maintain a Rev Docs Wiki,  
I think all our efforts should be funneled into giving them our full  
support for this.  I would certainly want them to get all the good  
input available from this list.  A bad wiki is worse than no wiki at  
all.  With no wiki there is still the possibility of a good wiki  
being created.  With a bad wiki, people would be discouraged.

Dennis


On Oct 28, 2005, at 10:33 AM, Dennis Brown wrote:

> Richard,
>
> I am game for this.  I just signed up for the RevDocs list.  Let's  
> just make sure that this list gets the occasional post about the  
> progress so others know there is a place to discuss it.
>
> Dennis
>
> On Oct 28, 2005, at 9:40 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>
>>
>> There's been a tremendous amount of discussion about wikis here  
>> over the last 48 hours.  Clearly a lot of good energy that can be  
>> put to productive use for the benefit of all.
>>
>> Given the great many details needed to be worked out to move this  
>> forward, much much more discussion will be needed.
>>
>> Rather than continuing to use the use-revolution list as the  
>> working group for this project, could a dedicated list be considered?
>>
>> You're welcome to use the RevDocs list for this:
>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RevDocs/>
>>
>> Most of the dozen or so people here who've expressed an interest  
>> in continuing to work on this project are already subscribed  
>> there, and the original mandate for that list has long since been  
>> abandoned so it's free for your use if you want it.
>>
>> I just posted a message there to help facilitate the migration  
>> from a good idea into a working project.
>>
>> I look forward to seeing the group produce a valuable addition to  
>> the family of Rev learning tools.
>>
>> --
>>  Richard Gaskin
>>  Managing Editor, revJournal
>>  _______________________________________________________
>>  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From david at openpartnership.net  Fri Oct 28 12:07:53 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:07:53 +0200
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <0A2AC2E4-A5A3-4467-9340-8C39B73C89F7@writeme.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>
	<43612449.5090908@chipp.com> <43622A3A.1050703@fourthworld.com>
	<3A2844C0-9427-4291-A110-CCBE461E5C52@writeme.com>
	<0A2AC2E4-A5A3-4467-9340-8C39B73C89F7@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <6DCA3161-F709-4EEC-AE58-C55D6FA3B4E1@openpartnership.net>

On 28 Oct 2005, at 17:31, Dennis Brown wrote:

> Now that RunRev has committed to create and maintain a Rev Docs  
> Wiki, I think all our efforts should be funneled into giving them  
> our full support for this.  I would certainly want them to get all  
> the good input available from this list.

Yes - it would be super (as they say in German out here).

However I for one would not really want to contribute to a  
copyrighted company documentation project without being paid - only  
if the material was released under an Creative Commons style license  
which others could use as freely as i gave it. This is less of an  
issue for me for documentation of the Rev IDE - however for community  
contributions or commercial plugins from other companies within the  
community?

Even more to the point is the sharing of code resources -. controls,  
groups, libraries and individual handlers. In other words RunRev  
needs to sort out a proper open content policy for not only  
documentation, but code, icons - whatever. A public statement of  
intent along these lines would be warmly welcomed, I am sure, and  
would shut a lot of people up :)

Without this - I would have to assume they still have a lot of  
thinking to do and figure out how this gels with their existing  
business plans - that sort of discussion can take months and is  
easily dropped amidst other business priorities.


So RunRev:

     - What is your official position on supporting open source or  
public domain content on or off your servers?

     - Are these contributions to be made accessible from within the  
RunRev IDE?

     - What parts or extensions to the IDE, the services, or the  
documentation you provide are to be under open licenses?

     - If high quality user created contributions - lets say  
documentation - comes forward under an open license - how do you plan  
to release it or integrate it with your existing documentation  
without breaking the terms of the license?

     - Do you wish to recommend that the community uses public domain  
style licences - some may object? Or would you prefer a dual  
licensing strategy allowing you to include this material within a  
commercial product?


Here's hoping.


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Oct 28 12:17:51 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:17:51 -0700
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <6DCA3161-F709-4EEC-AE58-C55D6FA3B4E1@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <BF879D3F.23C96%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, David Bovill  wrote:

>> Now that RunRev has committed to create and maintain a Rev Docs
>> Wiki, I think all our efforts should be funneled into giving them
>> our full support for this.  I would certainly want them to get all
>> the good input available from this list.
> 
> Yes - it would be super (as they say in German out here).

Agreed.  And moving the discussion to the RevDocs as list would be a great
start.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RevDocs/

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From simplsol at aol.com  Fri Oct 28 12:30:24 2005
From: simplsol at aol.com (simplsol at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:30:24 -0400
Subject: Programming is fun again
Message-ID: <8C7A9F4084AAEA2-918-ABDD@FWM-R21.sysops.aol.com>

In the past I have commented on the instability I've experienced using 
Rev for my work. I use it hard. Sixteen and eighteen hour days are 
common. I regularly work with 20 to 30 meg. stacks. Some of the 
routines I run take 30 to 40 hours. This is often done on computers 
that have not been rebooted in a month or two (OS X, of course). I 
commented to Mark that Rev would crash more, for me, in a day than 
HyperCard did in a decade of similar use (and this was no 
exaggeration). Very frustrating.
  Ancient history! Since installing version 2.6.1 I've had only one 
crash that "might" be attributed to Rev. It just runs! Even doing what 
I do with it.
  Not only is this more productive, it is more satisfying; it is hard to 
describe how much more I enjoy working now.
 Thank you Kevin, Mark, beta testers, stockholders, fellow listees.
If you are using an older version and debating whether this is a 
worthwhile upgrade, let me add my voice to the chorus saying "Do it 
now." If you know someone who tried Rev and gave up on it, have them 
try 2.6.1, I'm sure they will thank you.
  Paul Looney


From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Oct 28 12:30:50 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:30:50 -0700
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <9D316881-FE99-42A0-A2E9-DC15A7662F8D@writeme.com>
References: <7c2e13b170234e098bf4da08a39b3761@runrev.com>
	<9D316881-FE99-42A0-A2E9-DC15A7662F8D@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <82B78BBB-8ED0-4AFF-8E44-8FD6FE344A6F@danshafer.com>

While I remain highly skeptical that a wiki is a good solution to  
this problem and prefer a commented discussion board model, I will  
certainly participate in this process once it's going.

Dan

On Oct 28, 2005, at 8:21 AM, Dennis Brown wrote:

> Heather,
>
> Thank you for your (RunRev's) unequivocal endorsement of this long  
> time desire from this list.  I believe it is in RunRev's best  
> interest to take the leadership role and apparently you agree.   
> Please be sure to solicit input INTERACTIVELY with the "interested  
> parties" during the specification phase so that it can become both  
> the best doc tool and one that people on this list will enjoy  
> using.  The most active posters, and the most experienced scripters  
> are the ones who would add the most value to a wiki.  The most  
> inexperienced scripters are the ones who would derive the most  
> benefit --especially the ones who don't sign up for this list!   
> Both the experienced and inexperienced scripters that are on this  
> list will likely be the catalyst (through their questions) for  
> driving new content.
>
> A well managed docs wiki can become an effective sales tool for  
> spreading the Revolution to the masses.   Having a single place to  
> go to for answers to basic questions about using Revolution, ideas  
> for how to start a project, sticky problems, examples, etc. can be  
> addressed along with links to specific resources like the  
> appropriate tutorials, tools and solutions on third party sites,  
> and this list can make such a wiki the cornerstone of new customer  
> support.
>
> Please count me in as one who will actively support and promote  
> this effort in any way I can.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2005, at 10:40 AM, Heather Nagey wrote:
>
>
>> Dear Folks,
>>
>> The energy and enthusiasm of this list is a great resource. We  
>> want to do everything we can to encourage it.
>>
>> A lot of good sense has been spoken regarding how to set up and  
>> manage a revdocs wiki successfully. With a view to facilitating  
>> the effort, whilst still retaining control of content to monitor  
>> for quality and retain copyright, we propose to set up a runrev  
>> revdocs wiki. This may take us a little time to get off the  
>> ground, please be patient. If interested parties would like to  
>> write to me off list, we can discuss the matter further. When the  
>> wiki is up and running and ready for contributions, we will let  
>> the list know.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Heather
>>
>> Heather Nagey, Customer Support Manager
>> Runtime Revolution Ltd
>> www.runrev.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 28 12:41:30 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:41:30 -0500
Subject: 2.6.1 very slow on Win XP?
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-F369DEEBD1ACEFE38E1BC46AC6B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY105-F369DEEBD1ACEFE38E1BC46AC6B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <436254BA.9030302@hyperactivesw.com>

Kurt Kaufman wrote:
> Rev. 2.6.1 is *very* slow to startup on my 2 gHz Win XP box (at the 
> point at which menus and plugins are loaded it appears to all but hang). 
> Also, opening stacks and saving stacks is slow, but not always---depends 
> on the stack.

Do you have a virus-checking utility that scans files as they open? This 
is a very common cause of slowdowns in general. Revolution opens lots of 
stacks when it launches, so scanning each one would take considerable time.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 28 12:53:28 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:53:28 -0500
Subject: Reminder: scripting conference canceled
Message-ID: <43625788.1030401@hyperactivesw.com>

Just a reminder that there will be no online chat for this Saturday's 
scripting conference. Jerry was not able to make it, but promises his 
stack will be available later on.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Oct 28 13:24:40 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:24:40 +0200
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <436237C1.2040404@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20051028165116.2E12C824FB9@mail.runrev.com>

Richard they call those rss and they are already in tiki wikis. 

We could also install a simple webforum (tiki has one - but the
chat sucks) and for these discussions with latest threads per 
subjects forums are much handier... 

And it doesn't clog your corporatly clogged mail client...
Not a rant, just a practical preference if anyone is in the same
or alternate case...

X



> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Richard Gaskin
> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 4:38 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Revdocs on a wiki
> 
> Dennis Brown wrote:
> 
>  > On Oct 28, 2005, at 9:40 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>  >>
>  >> There's been a tremendous amount of discussion about 
> wikis here  over  >> the last 48 hours.  Clearly a lot of 
> good energy that can be put to  >> productive use for the 
> benefit of all.
>  >>
>  >> Given the great many details needed to be worked out to 
> move this  >> forward, much much more discussion will be needed.
>  >>
>  >> Rather than continuing to use the use-revolution list as 
> the  working  >> group for this project, could a dedicated 
> list be considered?
>  >>
>  >> You're welcome to use the RevDocs list for this:
>  >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RevDocs/>
> ...
>  > Richard,
>  >
>  > I am game for this.  I just signed up for the RevDocs list.
>  > Let's  just make sure that this list gets the occasional  
> > post about the  progress so others know there is a place to 
>  > discuss it.
> 
> Good idea. Something along the lines of a periodic progress 
> report from that group here would be useful.
> 
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Media Corporation
>   __________________________________________________
>   Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From herz at ucsd.edu  Fri Oct 28 13:34:12 2005
From: herz at ucsd.edu (Richard K. Herz)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:34:12 -0700
Subject: 2.6.1 very slow on Win XP?
In-Reply-To: <20051028162331.46B448255C4@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051028162331.46B448255C4@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <43626114.9030904@ucsd.edu>

Kurt Kaufman wrote:

 > Rev. 2.6.1 is *very* slow to startup on my 2 gHz Win XP box (at the
 > point at which menus and plugins are loaded it appears to all but hang).

One change between 2.6 and 2.6.1 is that QuickTime is loaded during 
startup of 2.6.1 rather than on first switch from select to browse tool 
in 2.6.

Rev 2.6.1 opens fast on my two Win XP machines.


From pixelbird at interisland.net  Fri Oct 28 13:42:56 2005
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:42:56 -0700
Subject: broadcaster
In-Reply-To: <20051028131205.D49C6825584@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051028131205.D49C6825584@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <21d29e43872acd3bf0ec13c9de32b5fe@interisland.net>

Hi Paolo,

On Oct 28, 2005, at 6:12 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:44:54 +0200
> From: "paolo mazza" <paolo.mazza at neol.it>
> Subject: broadcaster
>
> I know revolution can do almost everything....but I wonder if I can
> develope a broadcaster using revolution+Quicktime.
> I mean .. I need my application to broadcast a video streaming to a
> quicktime file .

If you can make this happen, please be sure to post the results. Heck, 
I'd even appreciate progress notes.

All the best,
Ken N.



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Oct 28 13:57:50 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:57:50 +0200
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <0A2AC2E4-A5A3-4467-9340-8C39B73C89F7@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <20051028172416.CA234825568@mail.runrev.com>

hi everyone,

bad news... posted in a good mood ;) I disagree with most of this tiki thing
for rev docs. But not entirely, since revDocs are not net 'capable' or
showing any evolution. But please don't chase away the current help system
for something uncertain...

For one, the rev dox are complete (but still missing the @ entry - bugzed).
It has naggies, sometimes it gets hidden at loc=32000-32000 (not bugzed),
it's not the smartest ebook (not bugzed) since it's now "net aware at all"
(bugzed) but it's WELL made (not bugzed or praised enough!!!) They have
hypertext, cool icons, context features, filters!, it's readable, it's much
better than 2.x<2.6.1, and it's fast!!! 

Compared to a browser, it's also low cost in your desktop! And it's fast,
and it never looses its cookies like bugzilla on win32 and firefox??! And
the wiki's which I've discovered in the past months, despite making cookies
stale requiring you to remember yet another password still don't match up to
the quality of rev's ebook. 

There's someone behind web based CMS which has to continuously update and
watch and backup the dbs... This experience with wiki and phpNuke resumes
to: they are CLUNKY! Yes... They work, they are available (so is a link to
the latest updates in the docs) or via revonline if rev ever went that
way... It could be revolutionary support!

The process of using a browser requires more manipulations (which can be
maddening when firefox's stupidity in dealing with copy-paste or Rev's
limited ways of pasting them later - add lotus notes to create hell in your
daily IT tasks workflow which is what it's supposed to make easy in a
clunkier way than a web interface anywhere ;)). Web sites are also open to
taggin or slimin, while Rev's Docs are only used by caring pro's. It's not
because it's windows, it's because its web made with poor tools. And forms
are a pain when boxes are too small, when you need to translate text again
~[whatever]~~ --- etc... All it takes in rev is the "standard" quickest text
editing we all use... 

Not that tikis or cms web sites made to support the xtalk or transcript more
available are bad... They are easily extended with new modules or fitter sql
tables to handle more stuff in a php-like language with sql tabs in between
- and that's infinite - (so is rev ;)! We all love that which is why we use
rev right? Maye a web client could relieve that problem but I still don't
see it coming for long... It requires much more maintenance for a poor coder
(not a poor scripter.mt - where's that transcript wiki engine?)...

Not that it's hard to make a good wiki like wikipedia did. Still with the
tikiwiki.org engine I got, im not overly happy, PHPNuke was lots friendlier
though not "category" or user groups aware - tiki overdoes or underdoes
these still but it's a younger CMS... This all takes LOTs of time in a
language which has one of the best user-friendly language references on line
with user examples. Check it out at www.php.org, no, http://www.php.net -
start to get confusing real fast though.

http://www.php.net/docs.php here... 

here's an example which helped me a lot in phpnuke...

http://www.php.net/manual/en/security.magicquotes.php

see the comments below that page, that's what web notes could be! need I
suggest more? Output to a web page I overly simply based on their xml pages
if they ever thought about it, the rest is workflow!

So anyway, there's the song of a different, lived view of CMS, development
of e-documentation bases... I didn't mention taoo but Im sure you read it
all over - This could be a prime usage example of TAOO - time permitting
until it's ready, I'll keep it to the taoo team.

just my 2-bit cents

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo






From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Fri Oct 28 14:34:17 2005
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:34:17 -0500
Subject: ANN: new free altPlugin: altMenuStack
In-Reply-To: <43615729.3090308@chipp.com>
References: <20051027104448.C64148253A8@mail.runrev.com>
	<F3CB10FB-83AD-4F4B-8158-73A54722D13E@mac.com>
	<43615729.3090308@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <C71A1FF4-05E5-4FAB-88A5-99FE44548690@daniels-mara.com>

Chipp, Roger and everyone,

I just sent Chipp and the other testers a new version of  
Constellation to test--a version that fixes this issue Chipp brought  
up and a couple of others. This new version also has a preference to  
"preload" Constellation when Rev starts up.

The question of why the Constellation error dialog shows when Rev's  
does not has been a puzzlement. They seem to be legitimate errors  
that Constellation is throwing. I am beginning to think that perhaps  
the Rev IDE ignores some errors that it deems "harmless." The one I  
just fixed with Chipp's stack might just be in that boat.

Jerry

http://www.daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm
Scripts and properties in a tabbed editor!

On Oct 27, 2005, at 5:39 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Roger and everyone,
>
> Please update your altMenuStack plugin. Preferences in the  
> altPluginToolbar or:
>
> enter into your message box:
> go URL "http://www.gadgetplugins.com/altplugins/altMenuStack.rev"
>
> I've fixed it so that the spacing is compatible across platforms  
> now (thanks to Ken for some help on popups). There's some funky  
> stuff going on with popUp stack menus. For instance, only buttons  
> receive a mouseUp message, and they throw an error if you set your  
> preferences to 'automatically close stacks who's destroyStack  
> property is false' in Constellation's IDE. (For some reason it  
> works in the Rev IDE, Jerry's looking into it).
>
> best,
> Chipp
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Fri Oct 28 14:55:52 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:55:52 -0700
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <A8DD8FD3-318A-4680-BFDC-C2801E93740C@danshafer.com>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>
	<p06200702bf870785478b@[10.0.1.2]>
	<B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>
	<p06200703bf873856b8cd@[10.0.1.2]>
	<A8DD8FD3-318A-4680-BFDC-C2801E93740C@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <p06200701bf881b5aee06@[10.0.1.2]>

>You missed the point. MY comment was marked as a rant, not yours!
>
>On Oct 27, 2005, at 8:29 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:
>
>>Sorry you think it was a rant.
>
>

Oops. Well, yours didn't look like a rant, but mine did, at least to 
me. How bout we both take a free pass, then.

I think it's time for me to bow out of this topic in any case. I'm 
really in way over my head, in terms of my expertise.

But wait...

One final comment. Many will be happy to know it's not about wikis.

In an off-list exchange with one of the subscribers, I got the 
impression that most of the list subscribers are lurkers, and most of 
the lurkers are newbies. He/she said, "I wish the newbies would ask 
really basic questions more often, like, 'What is a button?'"

When I taught myself hyperCard, I literally started with "What is a 
button?" Double-clicking on the button really made me nervous. Then 
it was, "What is a script?" It was slow going for me. I struggled 
with if - else - end for a week before I could use them effectively. 
I hardly knew what the internet was, back then. I didn't have access. 
But with Danny Goodman's book in one hand, the keyboard in the other, 
I figured it out. Many thousands (how many, really, I wonder? 
Millions, maybe?) did the same thing. Danny Goodman's book was rather 
expensive, and I had to buy at least one revision, maybe two. That 
was a serious barrier to me.

(I should add, learning HC was easier for me than it would have been 
for most newbies. I had taught myself Basic, a few years before, on 
my Atari 64, and actually wrote a rather complex application.)

Do we all agree that it's harder to teach oneself Dreamcard, not to 
mention Revolution, than it was with HC? And now there's no Danny 
Goodman book. (But everyone should buy Dan's book!)

A hyperlinked indexed reference of some kind would probably be more 
comfortable and effective than Danny Goodman's book was. That wasn't 
technically possible at the time. It is now.

It seems possible that such an electronic reference could be equally 
attractive and effective for a big range of users, from 
"What-is-a-button?" types, all the way up to seasoned developers. 
Good as the new version of Rev's docs might be, it's hard to imagine 
that they could optimally address the needs of such a broad spectrum 
of users.

I know little about the Runtime Revolution company, or its prospects, 
except I sometimes hear it's short on resources. And I've gotten the 
impression that Rev is not catching on as fast as early enthusiasts 
had hoped. Doesn't Rev need to become loved and needed by hundreds of 
thousands of really green new users, if it is to survive and prosper?


Nuff said.


Tim


From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Fri Oct 28 14:59:45 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:59:45 -0700
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <7c2e13b170234e098bf4da08a39b3761@runrev.com>
References: <7c2e13b170234e098bf4da08a39b3761@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06200702bf88250832cf@[10.0.1.2]>

Wow!

When it's up, I'll be happy to submit material intended to assist 
rank beginners. I hope this will be helpful to Rev and new users.

Cheers,

Tim

>Dear Folks,
>
>The energy and enthusiasm of this list is a great resource. We want 
>to do everything we can to encourage it.
>
>A lot of good sense has been spoken regarding how to set up and 
>manage a revdocs wiki successfully. With a view to facilitating the 
>effort, whilst still retaining control of content to monitor for 
>quality and retain copyright, we propose to set up a runrev revdocs 
>wiki. This may take us a little time to get off the ground, please 
>be patient. If interested parties would like to write to me off 
>list, we can discuss the matter further. When the wiki is up and 
>running and ready for contributions, we will let the list know.
>
>Regards,
>
>Heather
>
>Heather Nagey, Customer Support Manager
>Runtime Revolution Ltd
>www.runrev.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 12:29:57 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:29:57 -0700
Subject: AW: AW: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCAEODDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <BF87A015.2FC0E%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

This would make sense that the quote is considered non-white space.
If you were parsing a quoted string and considered the quotation mark a
valuable character and part of the "word" component.

now try these in the msg box.  I said 'huh?' and probably a bug.
put word 1 to -1 of  "    My test with lots of    "& quote & "spaces" &
quote & " at the end     "

put word 1 to -1 of  "    My test with lots of    a"& quote & "spaces" &
quote & " at the end     "

put word 1 to -1 of  "    My test with lots of    a"& quote & "spaces" &
quote & "      at the end     "


Jim Ault
Las  Vegas
On 10/28/05 7:30 AM, "Thomas Fischer" <fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
wrote:

> get word 1 to -1 of quote & "    My test with lots of spaces at the end     "?




From david at openpartnership.net  Fri Oct 28 15:07:59 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 21:07:59 +0200
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <20051028172416.CA234825568@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051028172416.CA234825568@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <ECCE9C85-A6AB-4EB5-A24B-C2AA690E4D51@openpartnership.net>

On 28 Oct 2005, at 19:57, MisterX wrote:

> Compared to a browser, it's also low cost in your desktop! And it's  
> fast,
> and it never looses its cookies like bugzilla on win32 and  
> firefox??! And
> the wiki's which I've discovered in the past months, despite making  
> cookies
> stale requiring you to remember yet another password still don't  
> match up to
> the quality of rev's ebook.

Xavier - the idea is that the local Rev document is an off-line cache  
of the wiki - so you get the best of both worlds. You can edit using  
a browser if you want to or from within Revolution. That is the  
basics, it can apply to transcript code, images, or documentation.  
The questions for me are just establishing exactly which are the best  
tools to do the job, and secondly how to ensure that the content is  
open and can work both for the Rev IDE and other developers as a  
collaboration tool. Based on a couple of years experience with  
TikiWiki - it doesn't cut the custard.


From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Oct 28 15:38:19 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:38:19 -0500
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <6AE5AEE9-527B-4E52-8ABB-BC60F3114380@major-k.de>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>	<EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>	<43612449.5090908@chipp.com>	<5E58C3A2-BF6F-4A7D-B419-892DAC5BFFB6@hindu.org>	<4361622A.90702@chipp.com>
	<6AE5AEE9-527B-4E52-8ABB-BC60F3114380@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <43627E2B.80801@chipp.com>

Hmmm.
If it wasn't you, then who? Ah, Pierre Sahores.
Hmmm. German and French. You think I'd be able to keep that straight. 
Sorry. Anyway, Klaus, interested in porting HTMLDOC to Mac / Linux?

LOL

Chipp

Klaus Major wrote:
> Hi Chipp,
> 
>> Sivakatirswami,
>>
>> ...
>> But that link is very interesting. In fact I've got a complete GUI  
>> written around the openSource version of HTMLDOC. Currently it only  
>> works on Windows, but I seem to remember handing off the Mac/Linux  
>> port to Klaus?
> 
> 
> To Mr. Major? No, not that i could remember.
> 
> I actually do not follow this thread, but this kinda jumped into my  eye 
> ;-)
> 
>> I'm not sure as it's been awhile....
>> ...
>> best,
>>
>> Chipp
>>
>>
>> Sivakatirswami wrote:
>>
>>> www.pmwiki.org offers some solutions to most of these    
>>> problems...check it out the cookbook recipes for PDF export of  the  
>>> wiki pages.
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> http://www.major-k.de
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 
> 



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Oct 28 15:48:24 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:48:24 -0500
Subject: Changing Font Style of Text Already in a Field
In-Reply-To: <4F58DF4B-A461-4311-92AD-0A7E7F3C3FAC@videotron.ca>
References: <4F58DF4B-A461-4311-92AD-0A7E7F3C3FAC@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <43628088.2070603@chipp.com>

Both Klaus and Signe Marie Sanne have good suggestions for doing this:

set the textfont of char 1 to -1 of fld "X" to to "Lucida Grande"

Both of their solutions involve explicitly set the font of the 
characters. Another way is to do as you do:

set the textFont of fld "X" to "Lucida Grande"
put the text of fld "X" into fld "X"

This has the added advantage if you cut and paste the text from fld "X" 
to another fld, it doesn't automatically take the font settings with it.

IOW, it's still just plain text.

-Chipp


Gregory Lypny wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 
>     If I have a field full of text in, say, Geneva, and want it  changed 
> to Lucida Grande, how do I do it with a handler?  I've tried
>     set the textFont of fld "X" to "Lucida Grande"
> but that only changes a text property of the field itself but not the  
> appearance of text already in it.



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Oct 28 15:59:26 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:59:26 -0500
Subject: ANN: new free altPlugin: altMenuStack
In-Reply-To: <C71A1FF4-05E5-4FAB-88A5-99FE44548690@daniels-mara.com>
References: <20051027104448.C64148253A8@mail.runrev.com>	<F3CB10FB-83AD-4F4B-8158-73A54722D13E@mac.com>	<43615729.3090308@chipp.com>
	<C71A1FF4-05E5-4FAB-88A5-99FE44548690@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <4362831E.8020201@chipp.com>

Hi Jerry,

Yes, it's a fact you can't debug stacks with 'rev' in the name prefix 
anymore using the Rev IDE. I'm not exactly sure when this happened 
(2.5?) but debug dialogs for rev prefixed stacks was turned off so as to 
not throw mystery errors. IOW, if the IDE threw an error, chances are 
the user would never see it.

I know all this because most all my plugins are rev prefixed, so as to 
not show up in the App Browser. Up until Constellation, it was most 
impossible to debug these guys (thankfully, they were pretty solid at 
the time they were created, when you *could* debug them);-)

best,
Chipp

Jerry Daniels wrote:

> The question of why the Constellation error dialog shows when Rev's  
> does not has been a puzzlement. They seem to be legitimate errors  that 
> Constellation is throwing. I am beginning to think that perhaps  the Rev 
> IDE ignores some errors that it deems "harmless." 



From see3d at writeme.com  Fri Oct 28 16:23:10 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:23:10 -0400
Subject: RevCentral Newsletter #5
In-Reply-To: <435FFFC5.6030702@chipp.com>
References: <435FFFC5.6030702@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <3307B684-2F01-4D65-B1B3-FEFC099A1F26@writeme.com>

Chipp,

Good issue.

Mark's tutorial on it and the result was good and concise.  Even  
taught me something new about the result.

We need a pointer to it in the new RevDocsWiki ;-)

Dennis

On Oct 26, 2005, at 6:14 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Been a long time coming! Dan and I 'took the summer off' but now  
> we're back and ready for action. :-)
>
> If you haven't already seen it in your InBox, then you can  
> subscribe (free) at:
>
> http://www.revCentral.com
>
> For those of you interested, we're asking for some input about the  
> next RevCon conference. You can access the online poll from Dan's  
> column in the newsletter.
>
> If you're not subscribed, you can view the newsletter at:
> http://www.altuit.com/webs/revCentral/Number5/default.htm
>
> -Chipp
>
>
> -- 
> --------------
> Chipp Walters
> www.altuit.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Oct 28 16:34:27 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:34:27 -0700
Subject: ANN: new free altPlugin: altMenuStack
In-Reply-To: <4362831E.8020201@chipp.com>
References: <20051027104448.C64148253A8@mail.runrev.com>	<F3CB10FB-83AD-4F4B-8158-73A54722D13E@mac.com>	<43615729.3090308@chipp.com>	<C71A1FF4-05E5-4FAB-88A5-99FE44548690@daniels-mara.com>
	<4362831E.8020201@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <43628B53.9060608@fourthworld.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:
> Yes, it's a fact you can't debug stacks with 'rev' in the name prefix 
> anymore using the Rev IDE. I'm not exactly sure when this happened 
> (2.5?) but debug dialogs for rev prefixed stacks was turned off so as to 
> not throw mystery errors. IOW, if the IDE threw an error, chances are 
> the user would never see it.

There isn't a switch for that?  How do the folks at RunRev debug their IDE?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  __________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 14:58:09 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:58:09 -0700
Subject: AW: AW: AW: How trim: Bug in RegExp engine
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCAEODDKAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <BF87C2D1.2FC31%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

This would make sense that the quote is considered non-white space.
If you were parsing a quoted string and considered the quotation mark a
valuable character and part of the "word" component.

now try these in the msg box.  I said 'huh?' and probably a bug.
put word 1 to -1 of  "    My test with lots of    "& quote & "spaces" &
quote & " at the end     "

put word 1 to -1 of  "    My test with lots of    a"& quote & "spaces" &
quote & " at the end     "

put word 1 to -1 of  "    My test with lots of    a"& quote & "spaces" &
quote & "      at the end     "


Jim Ault
Las  Vegas
On 10/28/05 7:30 AM, "Thomas Fischer" <fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
wrote:

> get word 1 to -1 of quote & "    My test with lots of spaces at the end     "?




From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Fri Oct 28 17:25:56 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 22:25:56 +0100
Subject: Changing Font Style of Text Already in a Field
In-Reply-To: <43628088.2070603@chipp.com>
References: <4F58DF4B-A461-4311-92AD-0A7E7F3C3FAC@videotron.ca>
	<43628088.2070603@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <0F691CE7-E176-4E4C-AC62-D013C7B9C955@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 28 Oct 2005, at 20:48, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Both Klaus and Signe Marie Sanne have good suggestions for doing this:
>
> set the textfont of char 1 to -1 of fld "X" to to "Lucida Grande"
>
> Both of their solutions involve explicitly set the font of the  
> characters. Another way is to do as you do:
>
> set the textFont of fld "X" to "Lucida Grande"
> put the text of fld "X" into fld "X"
>
> This has the added advantage if you cut and paste the text from fld  
> "X" to another fld, it doesn't automatically take the font settings  
> with it.

And just for variety (or confusion perhaps), this will do essentially  
the same as Chipp's suggestion.

   set the textfont of char 1 to -1 of fld "X" to empty
   set the textFont of fld "X" to "Lucida Grande"

Dave


From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Fri Oct 28 17:33:01 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 22:33:01 +0100
Subject: Darwin cgi engine and sendmail
Message-ID: <2B3796CB-FF4C-4D5F-9638-2037CB822656@lacscentre.co.uk>

Hi good people

Does anyone have any experience of using sendmail from the Darwin cgi  
engine? (OS X 10.4.2)

If so, could you let me know how it's done? Or if you know it's not  
possible, could put me out of my misery and let me know.

Cheers
Dave


From laguer at ucs.orst.edu  Fri Oct 28 18:11:54 2005
From: laguer at ucs.orst.edu (Rich Lague)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:11:54 -0700
Subject: touch screen?
Message-ID: <D91470BF-47FF-11DA-AEF5-00306558D288@ucs.orst.edu>


	The clinic where I work is converting to an electronic medical record. 
We will be using touch screen tablet computers.

	Is it possible to make revolution created applications work with touch 
screens? If possible -- How?

Thanks,

Rich Lague



From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Fri Oct 28 18:19:57 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:19:57 -0500
Subject: touch screen?
In-Reply-To: <D91470BF-47FF-11DA-AEF5-00306558D288@ucs.orst.edu>
References: <D91470BF-47FF-11DA-AEF5-00306558D288@ucs.orst.edu>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051028171926.099504d0@exchange.slg.com>

I don't have recent experience with touch screens, but typically they mimic 
mouse actions, which should be transparent to Revolution.

At 05:11 PM 10/28/2005, you wrote:

>         The clinic where I work is converting to an electronic medical 
> record. We will be using touch screen tablet computers.
>
>         Is it possible to make revolution created applications work with 
> touch screens? If possible -- How?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Rich Lague

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 18:22:02 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 08:22:02 +1000
Subject: touch screen?
In-Reply-To: <D91470BF-47FF-11DA-AEF5-00306558D288@ucs.orst.edu>
References: <D91470BF-47FF-11DA-AEF5-00306558D288@ucs.orst.edu>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510281522y7a2ddc9ud2390804bf9aa025@mail.gmail.com>

>         The clinic where I work is converting to an electronic medical record.
> We will be using touch screen tablet computers.
>
>         Is it possible to make revolution created applications work with touch
> screens? If possible -- How?
>

Hi Rich,

A touch screen just replaces the mouse, so when someone pushes on an
area on the screen, it is the same as if they clicked the mouse there.
All programs, including any built with Revolution, will work with a
touch screen.

The thing you will need to remember is that the users won't have the
fine control that a mouse gives, so make the buttons larger than
normal. Also, you can't right-click and double-clicking is not easy.
You may want to hide the cursor or set it to an empty image so it
doesn't distract the users.

If you need text entry, will you have an optional keyboard? If not,
you will need to use a virtual keyboard.

HTH,
Sarah


From harvey.toyama at qlogic.com  Fri Oct 28 18:30:39 2005
From: harvey.toyama at qlogic.com (Harvey Toyama)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:30:39 -0700
Subject: answer file with defaultPath
Message-ID: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F801A8A579@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>

Hi Thomas,
I recently discovered the same result, the ask and answer dialogs don't
use defaultFolder. Use the "with {path}" to make this work for you. The
defaultFolder defines the path for "the files".

-- Harvey
-- 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Thomas
Fischer
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 7:20 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: AW: answer file with defaultPath

Hi Dan,

> But I must say that on OS X 10.4.2, it also fails to honor the path  
> passed to it as a parameter. It seems to behave as the docs describe  
> it should behave without a path argument being passed.
> 
I tried using 
  set the defaultfolder to myPath
but found that
- the defaultFolder does not seem to influence the folder
  that is first shown with the "answer file" command.
- I couldn't change the defaultfolder.
  A subsequent
   answer the defaultfolder
  showed it to be unchanged (Revolution's main folder). 

Tested with Rev 2.6.1 on Mac 10.4.2

All the best
Thomas


--
Thomas Fischer
Salzburg 

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Oct 28 19:11:02 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:11:02 -0700
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <p06200701bf881b5aee06@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>
	<p06200702bf870785478b@[10.0.1.2]>
	<B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>
	<p06200703bf873856b8cd@[10.0.1.2]>
	<A8DD8FD3-318A-4680-BFDC-C2801E93740C@danshafer.com>
	<p06200701bf881b5aee06@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <0A7EB28D-CE2B-4009-938D-EFE2FC5DDAF6@danshafer.com>

Good question, Tim (even though I"m hurt that you used Danny's book  
to learn HC and not mine, which was MUCH better. heh heh. JK)

I think the answer is yes but this opens a whole can of worms about  
how to position, package, price and market Rev, whether for the  
audience you and I see or for the professional programmer. RunRev  
tries to both and I don't think that can be done well. At least I've  
never seen it done well.

On Oct 28, 2005, at 11:55 AM, Timothy Miller wrote:

> Doesn't Rev need to become loved and needed by hundreds of  
> thousands of really green new users, if it is to survive and prosper?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Oct 28 19:12:34 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:12:34 -0700
Subject: ANN: new free altPlugin: altMenuStack
In-Reply-To: <43628B53.9060608@fourthworld.com>
References: <20051027104448.C64148253A8@mail.runrev.com>	<F3CB10FB-83AD-4F4B-8158-73A54722D13E@mac.com>	<43615729.3090308@chipp.com>	<C71A1FF4-05E5-4FAB-88A5-99FE44548690@daniels-mara.com>
	<4362831E.8020201@chipp.com> <43628B53.9060608@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <F19B1D72-4CB4-4508-96AF-A934BD4C2486@danshafer.com>

The folks at RunRev debug their IDE?

Heh heh

Dan

On Oct 28, 2005, at 1:34 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> How do the folks at RunRev debug their IDE?



From troy at rpsystems.net  Fri Oct 28 19:26:16 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:26:16 -0400
Subject: touch screen?
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860510281522y7a2ddc9ud2390804bf9aa025@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D91470BF-47FF-11DA-AEF5-00306558D288@ucs.orst.edu>
	<f99b52860510281522y7a2ddc9ud2390804bf9aa025@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e0064ee37ed582db88444de3c101bcb5@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 28, 2005, at 6:22 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> The thing you will need to remember is that the users won't have the
> fine control that a mouse gives, so make the buttons larger than
> normal. Also, you can't right-click and double-clicking is not easy.
> You may want to hide the cursor or set it to an empty image so it
> doesn't distract the users.

MouseEnter and MouseLeave events are also not relevant on a touch 
screen. This means that rollover effects shouldn't be bothered with. If 
a GUI requires them to be used effectively, it will want to be 
reworked. e.g. interactive tool tips...

Basically, mousedown, mouseStillDown, and mouseUp are your primary 
input events.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Oct 28 17:46:52 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:46:52 -0200
Subject: Darwin cgi engine and sendmail
In-Reply-To: <2B3796CB-FF4C-4D5F-9638-2037CB822656@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <2B3796CB-FF4C-4D5F-9638-2037CB822656@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <A62EC193-F632-4B5C-89DB-AFAA33195927@mac.com>

Dave,

there was some snipet code by sivakatirswami showing that some time  
ago on the list, I'll search the list and get back to you.

Cheers
andre

On Oct 28, 2005, at 7:33 PM, Dave Cragg wrote:

> Hi good people
>
> Does anyone have any experience of using sendmail from the Darwin  
> cgi engine? (OS X 10.4.2)
>
> If so, could you let me know how it's done? Or if you know it's not  
> possible, could put me out of my misery and let me know.
>
> Cheers
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Fri Oct 28 21:51:37 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:51:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <1105306C-7244-4591-BD47-B620687AE555@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510281848350.1989-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Yeah, unfortunately, it's the same problem as the web, writ albeit a tad
bit smaller.

In a take-home exam essay, I had several students providing citations from
wikipedias.  Even worse, after we had discussed in class Microsoft's
stance on their errors in Encarta being less important than Encarta's
being politically palatable, a few cited Encarta.

:-(

This is one of the problems of the illusion of quality that computer
technologies make possible.

Sigh.

Judy

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005, David Bovill wrote:

> On 28 Oct 2005, at 07:58, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
> > Just to play devil's advocate:
> >
> > <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/18/wikipedia_quality_problem/>
>
> Yes - good article - one of the very rare anti-wikipedia articles.
> Goes nowhere to say why or to suggest solutions though.



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 28 21:59:25 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:59:25 -0500
Subject: Changing Font Style of Text Already in a Field
In-Reply-To: <0F691CE7-E176-4E4C-AC62-D013C7B9C955@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <4F58DF4B-A461-4311-92AD-0A7E7F3C3FAC@videotron.ca>	<43628088.2070603@chipp.com>
	<0F691CE7-E176-4E4C-AC62-D013C7B9C955@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4362D77D.2080906@hyperactivesw.com>

Dave Cragg wrote:
> 
> On 28 Oct 2005, at 20:48, Chipp Walters wrote:
> 
>> Both Klaus and Signe Marie Sanne have good suggestions for doing this:
>>
>> set the textfont of char 1 to -1 of fld "X" to to "Lucida Grande"
>>
>> Both of their solutions involve explicitly set the font of the  
>> characters. Another way is to do as you do:
>>
>> set the textFont of fld "X" to "Lucida Grande"
>> put the text of fld "X" into fld "X"
>>
>> This has the added advantage if you cut and paste the text from fld  
>> "X" to another fld, it doesn't automatically take the font settings  
>> with it.
> 
> 
> And just for variety (or confusion perhaps), this will do essentially  
> the same as Chipp's suggestion.
> 
>   set the textfont of char 1 to -1 of fld "X" to empty
>   set the textFont of fld "X" to "Lucida Grande"

And, just for more variety, this will salvage any existing text styling 
while changing the font. Note that it only works if the text has no font 
settings at the character level:

    put the htmlText of fld "x" into tText
    set the textFont of fld "x" to "Lucida Grande"
    set the htmlText of fld "x" to tText

If the original text has both style and font settings at the character 
level, then the font setting of the characters will take precedence. The 
above only works with text that inherits its font from the field.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Oct 28 22:04:43 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 21:04:43 -0500
Subject: ANN: new free altPlugin: altMenuStack
In-Reply-To: <4362831E.8020201@chipp.com>
References: <20051027104448.C64148253A8@mail.runrev.com>	<F3CB10FB-83AD-4F4B-8158-73A54722D13E@mac.com>	<43615729.3090308@chipp.com>	<C71A1FF4-05E5-4FAB-88A5-99FE44548690@daniels-mara.com>
	<4362831E.8020201@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <4362D8BB.1040507@hyperactivesw.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:
> 
> Yes, it's a fact you can't debug stacks with 'rev' in the name prefix 
> anymore using the Rev IDE. 

I just made a stack called "revtest.rev" with a test handler in the card 
script. I could set a breakpoint and the debugger caught it. I could 
step through the code. Maybe the problem is fixed?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Oct 28 22:23:50 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 21:23:50 -0500
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <4361BDF8.5040308@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>	<p06200702bf870785478b@[10.0.1.2]>	<B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>	<p06200703bf873856b8cd@[10.0.1.2]>
	<4361BDF8.5040308@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <4362DD36.1070304@chipp.com>

Interesting article.

A good friend of mine submitted a photoshopped pic of his ex-boss as an 
'evil spirit' in wikipedia. Last I looked, it was still there!

-Chipp

J. Landman Gay wrote:
> Timothy Miller wrote:
> 
>> Sure, some users would bloat entries. But then, other users would 
>> prune them. When I look at the wikipedia, the entries I see are 
>> remarkably concise.
> 
> 
> Just to play devil's advocate:
> 
> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/18/wikipedia_quality_problem/>
> 
> 



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Fri Oct 28 22:31:52 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:31:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <p06200701bf881b5aee06@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510281902230.1989-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

This sort of goes to the heart of why I think that a well-done book,
complete with a good index and a plethora of commented code snippets,
would be invaluable as opposed to any sort of online analog.

The main point is this:  people already know how to use books.  In all the
years since the 1460s invention of the printing press, but especially in
the last 150 years or so, we've codified the format of the printed book in
terms of the table of contents, glossary, index, and usage of headers and
footers.  I'd guess that there's scarcely a semi-literate adult who's
unable to use descriptive, functional and locational terms to describe a
TOC, a glossary, an index (heck, even my students can do it!).

But these things are either not standardized in online formats or absent
altogether.  You're new to the environment, and, looking to leverage your
existing (programming?) knowledge, you type in some technical term which
does not exist in Transcript.  What do you get?

Nothing.

That's not helpful.  In a printed book with a well-done index, if there
was an expectation that the readership of the book might well be looking
for that term, you'd get the following:

GeekyC++thingy-- see CorrespondingNotSoGeekyTranscriptThingy.

Which is worlds more helpful than a "not found" message, because "not
found" makes people feel stupid, people don't like to feel stupid, and
they especially don't like *paying* to feel stupid (well, okay, clearly
_I_ don't mind so much looking stupid).

I just received via interlibrary loan a book on one of my medieval history
interests.  It was published in 1982.  And the *&^%! thing doesn't have a
*&(%! index!!!  It  makes me want to hunt down the author and throttle
him!

Has anyone on this list a well-thumbed programming-related book?  Did you
scribble in the margins?  Hilight text? Bookmark pages with stickies,
paperclips, or by bending back the pages to mark them?  Read it in bed/at
the bus stop/while outside watching your kids?  How many of these things
can be done with any online documentation strategy?

And that's without bozos like me going in and running amok with your
wikis.

And, for the newbies wondering "what is a button?", imagine how they feel
when a tabbed control looks and acts like a set of buttons, only you can't
disable their contents so obviously because, as someone will inevitably
tell you, "you know, they're really not buttons; they're menus".

And we're back to feeling stupid again.

Judy

> >On Oct 27, 2005, at 8:29 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:
> >
> In an off-list exchange with one of the subscribers, I got the
> impression that most of the list subscribers are lurkers, and most of
> the lurkers are newbies. He/she said, "I wish the newbies would ask
> really basic questions more often, like, 'What is a button?'"
>
> When I taught myself hyperCard, I literally started with "What is a
> button?" Double-clicking on the button really made me nervous. Then
> it was, "What is a script?" It was slow going for me. I struggled
> with if - else - end for a week before I could use them effectively.
> I hardly knew what the internet was, back then. I didn't have access.
> But with Danny Goodman's book in one hand, the keyboard in the other,
> I figured it out. Many thousands (how many, really, I wonder?
> Millions, maybe?) did the same thing. Danny Goodman's book was rather
> expensive, and I had to buy at least one revision, maybe two. That
> was a serious barrier to me.
>
> (I should add, learning HC was easier for me than it would have been
> for most newbies. I had taught myself Basic, a few years before, on
> my Atari 64, and actually wrote a rather complex application.)
>
> Do we all agree that it's harder to teach oneself Dreamcard, not to
> mention Revolution, than it was with HC? And now there's no Danny
> Goodman book. (But everyone should buy Dan's book!)
>
> A hyperlinked indexed reference of some kind would probably be more
> comfortable and effective than Danny Goodman's book was. That wasn't
> technically possible at the time. It is now.
>
> It seems possible that such an electronic reference could be equally
> attractive and effective for a big range of users, from
> "What-is-a-button?" types, all the way up to seasoned developers.
> Good as the new version of Rev's docs might be, it's hard to imagine
> that they could optimally address the needs of such a broad spectrum
> of users.
>
> I know little about the Runtime Revolution company, or its prospects,
> except I sometimes hear it's short on resources. And I've gotten the
> impression that Rev is not catching on as fast as early enthusiasts
> had hoped. Doesn't Rev need to become loved and needed by hundreds of
> thousands of really green new users, if it is to survive and prosper?
>
>
> Nuff said.



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Oct 28 22:41:00 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 21:41:00 -0500
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510281902230.1989-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510281902230.1989-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <4362E13C.8030903@chipp.com>

Judy,

I couldn't agree with you more. The multiple books available for 
HyperCard, including Dan Shafer's and Danny Goodman's excellent tomes, 
were invaluable to me for learning how to work with HyperCard. That is 
one of the reasons why I'm pushing for both 'linearity' and 'xml' for 
whatever wiki is created.

-Chipp

Judy Perry wrote:
> This sort of goes to the heart of why I think that a well-done book,
> complete with a good index and a plethora of commented code snippets,
> would be invaluable as opposed to any sort of online analog.



From jhurley at infostations.com  Fri Oct 28 23:07:12 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:07:12 -0700
Subject: Creating sub-menus a la the inspector?
In-Reply-To: <20051028220044.55F458255FD@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051028220044.55F458255FD@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230900bf88951b2fc6@[69.85.136.53]>

How would one go about creating those sub-menus in an option menu (or 
whatever) that appear in the inspector when there are more then  20 
menus or fields etc.?

Jim


From kurtkaufman at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 28 23:07:35 2005
From: kurtkaufman at hotmail.com (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 03:07:35 +0000
Subject: 2.6.1 very slow on Win XP?
In-Reply-To: <20051028220044.55F458255FD@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-F28A50B3E96689CCFC80957AC6A0@phx.gbl>

Thanks to all who replied.
I am using no anti-virus software, and it's a pretty basic Win XP SP1 
installation.
I have a feeling that, aside from the intial startup delay, it might be due 
to the fact that the stacks I'm running open other stacks across a local 
network. There's always a bit of a delay in normal function there; perhaps 
some interior Rev-IDE scripts bog down.

Also, I opened a copy of a stack previously opened from across the network; 
and I forgot that Rev does not necessarily release resources and settings 
when a stack is closed.  Maybe it got something confused....

In any case, I was able to get the work I needed done eventually.  In 
general, I find the Rev environment to be quicker and more responsive when 
run on Mac OS X, so I do most of my work there, and then do a bit of 
tweaking using the Windows editor afterwards.  I can't really explain the 
perceived difference; the computers used are a 1.3 mHz Mac and a 2 mHz Dell. 
  Maybe the memory?  The Mac has 768 MB and the Dell 512 MB.  Is 512 MB 
insufficient?

Thanks, Kurt




From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 28 23:34:36 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:34:36 -0700
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510281902230.1989-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <BF883BDD.2FC8F%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>


On 10/28/05 7:31 PM, "Judy Perry" <jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu> wrote:

> This sort of goes to the heart of why I think that a well-done book,
> complete with a good index and a plethora of commented code snippets,
> would be invaluable as opposed to any sort of online analog.

Actually, only one comment about printed tech books.. they are usually
processed through the marketing/publishing machine and so the main body of
work may be great and a few illustrations mislabeled or misplaced, BUT...
<peeve>
My biggest pet peeve is the indexing.  Either...
1. The word I am trying to find is not there, and any synonym is a dead end
2. The word is there, but it is a sub-listing so you have to read the whole
index to find it
3. The editor's use of the word is not how you would use it
4. Eureka!  it is here, but the page numbers don't have the word on them
anywhere.
5. Eureka!  it is here, but all the citations discuss something other than
the context you need.

I would love it if they included a thesaurus to the index. (in case you
could not tell, I just went through this last night in books and on the web
related to Applescript)
</peeve>
I think this is the rationale for the 'recipes' in the docs.
Some web sites are such that the links take you through a sequence that is
logical, bite-sized, and printable.  Perhaps the wiki could have long,
gentle newbie paths and also short cuts for the same material.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 10/28/05 7:31 PM, "Judy Perry" <jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu> wrote:

> This sort of goes to the heart of why I think that a well-done book,
> complete with a good index and a plethora of commented code snippets,
> would be invaluable as opposed to any sort of online analog.
> 
> The main point is this:  people already know how to use books.  In all the
> years since the 1460s invention of the printing press, but especially in
> the last 150 years or so, we've codified the format of the printed book in
> terms of the table of contents, glossary, index, and usage of headers and
> footers.  I'd guess that there's scarcely a semi-literate adult who's
> unable to use descriptive, functional and locational terms to describe a
> TOC, a glossary, an index (heck, even my students can do it!).
> 
> But these things are either not standardized in online formats or absent
> altogether.  You're new to the environment, and, looking to leverage your
> existing (programming?) knowledge, you type in some technical term which
> does not exist in Transcript.  What do you get?
> 
> Nothing.
> 
> That's not helpful.  In a printed book with a well-done index, if there
> was an expectation that the readership of the book might well be looking
> for that term, you'd get the following:
> 
> GeekyC++thingy-- see CorrespondingNotSoGeekyTranscriptThingy.
> 
> Which is worlds more helpful than a "not found" message, because "not
> found" makes people feel stupid, people don't like to feel stupid, and
> they especially don't like *paying* to feel stupid (well, okay, clearly
> _I_ don't mind so much looking stupid).
> 
> I just received via interlibrary loan a book on one of my medieval history
> interests.  It was published in 1982.  And the *&^%! thing doesn't have a
> *&(%! index!!!  It  makes me want to hunt down the author and throttle
> him!
> 
> Has anyone on this list a well-thumbed programming-related book?  Did you
> scribble in the margins?  Hilight text? Bookmark pages with stickies,
> paperclips, or by bending back the pages to mark them?  Read it in bed/at
> the bus stop/while outside watching your kids?  How many of these things
> can be done with any online documentation strategy?
> 
> And that's without bozos like me going in and running amok with your
> wikis.
> 
> And, for the newbies wondering "what is a button?", imagine how they feel
> when a tabbed control looks and acts like a set of buttons, only you can't
> disable their contents so obviously because, as someone will inevitably
> tell you, "you know, they're really not buttons; they're menus".
> 
> And we're back to feeling stupid again.
> 
> Judy
> 
>>> On Oct 27, 2005, at 8:29 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:
>>> 
>> In an off-list exchange with one of the subscribers, I got the
>> impression that most of the list subscribers are lurkers, and most of
>> the lurkers are newbies. He/she said, "I wish the newbies would ask
>> really basic questions more often, like, 'What is a button?'"
>> 
>> When I taught myself hyperCard, I literally started with "What is a
>> button?" Double-clicking on the button really made me nervous. Then
>> it was, "What is a script?" It was slow going for me. I struggled
>> with if - else - end for a week before I could use them effectively.
>> I hardly knew what the internet was, back then. I didn't have access.
>> But with Danny Goodman's book in one hand, the keyboard in the other,
>> I figured it out. Many thousands (how many, really, I wonder?
>> Millions, maybe?) did the same thing. Danny Goodman's book was rather
>> expensive, and I had to buy at least one revision, maybe two. That
>> was a serious barrier to me.
>> 
>> (I should add, learning HC was easier for me than it would have been
>> for most newbies. I had taught myself Basic, a few years before, on
>> my Atari 64, and actually wrote a rather complex application.)
>> 
>> Do we all agree that it's harder to teach oneself Dreamcard, not to
>> mention Revolution, than it was with HC? And now there's no Danny
>> Goodman book. (But everyone should buy Dan's book!)
>> 
>> A hyperlinked indexed reference of some kind would probably be more
>> comfortable and effective than Danny Goodman's book was. That wasn't
>> technically possible at the time. It is now.
>> 
>> It seems possible that such an electronic reference could be equally
>> attractive and effective for a big range of users, from
>> "What-is-a-button?" types, all the way up to seasoned developers.
>> Good as the new version of Rev's docs might be, it's hard to imagine
>> that they could optimally address the needs of such a broad spectrum
>> of users.
>> 
>> I know little about the Runtime Revolution company, or its prospects,
>> except I sometimes hear it's short on resources. And I've gotten the
>> impression that Rev is not catching on as fast as early enthusiasts
>> had hoped. Doesn't Rev need to become loved and needed by hundreds of
>> thousands of really green new users, if it is to survive and prosper?
>> 
>> 
>> Nuff said.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From scott at proherp.com  Fri Oct 28 23:48:51 2005
From: scott at proherp.com (Scott Kane)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 13:48:51 +1000
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <BF883BDD.2FC8F%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000001c5dc3b$b17652b0$0201010a@proherp3t4vojr>



> illustrations mislabeled or misplaced, BUT... <peeve> My 
> biggest pet peeve is the indexing.  Either... 1. The word I 
> am trying to find is not there, and any synonym is a dead end 
> 2. The word is there, but it is a sub-listing so you have to 
> read the whole index to find it 3. The editor's use of the 
> word is not how you would use it 4.

Reminds me of Borland Delphi.  The subject in the index for
"Recursive" - when you go to the page it says "See Recusrive"...   ;-)

Scott




From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Oct 29 00:18:37 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 21:18:37 -0700
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510281902230.1989-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510281902230.1989-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <D4AFBA1D-D4D5-4B34-BB79-835E40714927@danshafer.com>

Judy.....

As everyone here knows, you and I don't always see eye to eye on  
things. OK, we almost never see universe to universe. So what of it?

But I thought that a LOT of what you share in this message is, as the  
Brits say, spot-on. Those who are waiting for electronically  
delivered information to replace paper-delivered information will  
wait a long, long, LONG time. Meanwhile, we need to find better and  
better ways to translate what is good and understandable and usable  
about printed books into the digital universe. We keep trying.

Dan




From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Oct 29 01:03:10 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:03:10 -0500
Subject: 2.6.1 very slow on Win XP?
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-F28A50B3E96689CCFC80957AC6A0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY105-F28A50B3E96689CCFC80957AC6A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4363028E.7040309@chipp.com>



Kurt Kaufman wrote:

> Also, I opened a copy of a stack previously opened from across the 
> network; and I forgot that Rev does not necessarily release resources 
> and settings when a stack is closed.  Maybe it got something confused....

Kurt, that's your problem. Rev is trying to connect to that stack when 
you restart as it's one of the 'most recent stacks opened.'

Easy to fix. Go to Prefs->Files & Memory and set the Number of items: to 
0. Then close prefs and restart. You can then reset prefs to whatever 
number you want.




From tjframe at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 03:33:03 2005
From: tjframe at gmail.com (TJ Frame)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:33:03 -0700
Subject: ARGH! 2.6.1 keeps crashing
Message-ID: <7348a9e80510290033t7c4e8058ld778e81e9f7af921@mail.gmail.com>

Since I uninstalled 2.6 and replaced it with 2.6.1 I keep getting random
crashes.
  It's usually in the script editor, but not always. There seems to be no
ryhme or reason for the crashes in the sense that I'm not doing the same
thing each time. The app just instantly vanishes - no lockups or anything -
it's just gone. If I check the Task Manger, the app is gone from there too.
Usally when an app crashes at least it will say "not responding" or
something in the TM.
 Anyway, I'm using Win 200 and this thing is happening about once per hour,
which is really starting to annoy me. 2.6 hardly ever crashed on me.
 Anyone else finding 2.6.1 unstable for them as well? I'm tempted to go back
to 2.6 at this point
 - TJ


From scott at proherp.com  Sat Oct 29 03:46:23 2005
From: scott at proherp.com (Scott Kane)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 17:46:23 +1000
Subject: ARGH! 2.6.1 keeps crashing
In-Reply-To: <7348a9e80510290033t7c4e8058ld778e81e9f7af921@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101c5dc5c$dd66c910$0201010a@proherp3t4vojr>


> Since I uninstalled 2.6 and replaced it with 2.6.1 I keep 
> getting random crashes.
>   It's usually in the script editor, but not always. There 
> seems to be no ryhme or reason for the crashes in the sense 
> that I'm not doing the same thing each time. The app just 
> instantly vanishes - no lockups or anything - it's just gone. 
> If I check the Task Manger, the app is gone from there too. 
> Usally when an app crashes at least it will say "not 
> responding" or something in the TM.  Anyway, I'm using Win 
> 200 and this thing is happening about once per hour, which is 
> really starting to annoy me. 2.6 hardly ever crashed on me.  
> Anyone else finding 2.6.1 unstable for them as well? I'm 
> tempted to go back to 2.6 at this point

Working fine here, but I'm on XP Pro.

Scott




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Oct 29 03:55:46 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:55:46 +0200
Subject: ARGH! 2.6.1 keeps crashing
In-Reply-To: <000101c5dc5c$dd66c910$0201010a@proherp3t4vojr>
Message-ID: <20051029072204.CF5B1825628@mail.runrev.com>

works fine on w200 here too ;)

images with duplicate ids involved maybe?  

HTML with images?

Corrupted stack?

RevGeometry in use? 

Breakpoint in a stackresize handler or breakpoint in a routine off-stack
that does resizing?

that's about the causes I know...

Otherwise, I atest 261 is running solidly on windows...

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Scott Kane
> Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 9:46 AM
> To: 'How to use Revolution'
> Subject: RE: ARGH! 2.6.1 keeps crashing
> 
> 
> > Since I uninstalled 2.6 and replaced it with 2.6.1 I keep getting 
> > random crashes.
> >   It's usually in the script editor, but not always. There 
> seems to be 
> > no ryhme or reason for the crashes in the sense that I'm 
> not doing the 
> > same thing each time. The app just instantly vanishes - no 
> lockups or 
> > anything - it's just gone.
> > If I check the Task Manger, the app is gone from there too. 
> > Usally when an app crashes at least it will say "not responding" or 
> > something in the TM.  Anyway, I'm using Win 200 and this thing is 
> > happening about once per hour, which is really starting to 
> annoy me. 
> > 2.6 hardly ever crashed on me.
> > Anyone else finding 2.6.1 unstable for them as well? I'm 
> tempted to go 
> > back to 2.6 at this point
> 
> Working fine here, but I'm on XP Pro.
> 
> Scott
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From tjframe at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 03:57:13 2005
From: tjframe at gmail.com (TJ Frame)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:57:13 -0700
Subject: ARGH! 2.6.1 keeps crashing
In-Reply-To: <20051029072204.CF5B1825628@mail.runrev.com>
References: <000101c5dc5c$dd66c910$0201010a@proherp3t4vojr>
	<20051029072204.CF5B1825628@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <7348a9e80510290057i29d5ee01s2f41e84ec58d9347@mail.gmail.com>

ugh.. I was hoping other people would verify this behavior .. perhasp Im jus
unlucky. The app doesnt seem corrupted - everything else works as expected.
 But like i said it happens a lot when I am in the script editor working on
a script.. I'll hit return or something and then Crashola...

 On 10/29/05, MisterX <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:
>
> works fine on w200 here too ;)
>
> images with duplicate ids involved maybe?
>
> HTML with images?
>
> Corrupted stack?
>
> RevGeometry in use?
>
> Breakpoint in a stackresize handler or breakpoint in a routine off-stack
> that does resizing?
>
> that's about the causes I know...
>
> Otherwise, I atest 261 is running solidly on windows...
>
> cheers
> Xavier
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
> > Scott Kane
> > Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 9:46 AM
> > To: 'How to use Revolution'
> > Subject: RE: ARGH! 2.6.1 keeps crashing
> >
> >
> > > Since I uninstalled 2.6 and replaced it with 2.6.1 I keep getting
> > > random crashes.
> > > It's usually in the script editor, but not always. There
> > seems to be
> > > no ryhme or reason for the crashes in the sense that I'm
> > not doing the
> > > same thing each time. The app just instantly vanishes - no
> > lockups or
> > > anything - it's just gone.
> > > If I check the Task Manger, the app is gone from there too.
> > > Usally when an app crashes at least it will say "not responding" or
> > > something in the TM. Anyway, I'm using Win 200 and this thing is
> > > happening about once per hour, which is really starting to
> > annoy me.
> > > 2.6 hardly ever crashed on me.
> > > Anyone else finding 2.6.1 unstable for them as well? I'm
> > tempted to go
> > > back to 2.6 at this point
> >
> > Working fine here, but I'm on XP Pro.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
> > your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From frederic at runrev.com  Sat Oct 29 04:05:46 2005
From: frederic at runrev.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fr=E9d=E9ric_RINALDI?=)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 10:05:46 +0200
Subject: ANN: FastMailBase demonstrates the power of Revolution!
Message-ID: <4FDD911F-2F85-4941-A75E-CD2837DCBC39@runrev.com>

     ManyBases is proud to introduce FastMailBase, the first  
professional emails archiver available on the market.

     FastMailBase purpose is to bring you an easy and elegant way of  
archiving, retrieving and organizing all your emails, the power and  
speed of SQL databases at your fingertips, in an easy and intuitive  
user interface.

     Until now, people making intensive use of personal or  
professional emails exchanges had no other choice than simply keeping  
them in their mail application, by organizing them in folders and  
subfolders. But anyone dealing with more than 500 emails quickly felt  
that mail applications were not tailored for this use, and became  
slower as storage increased.

     FastMailBase brings the right solution for this, by providing  
the power and speed of lightning fast database right on your desktop,  
dynamically linked with your mail application thru intensive  
collaboration. So, you still will use your preferred mail client to  
retrieve and answer to your emails, and FastMailBase will be there  
for the next steps.

     FastMailBase is available for Windows 98-XP, Mac OS X and Mac OS  
7.1-9.x  (Unix/Linux on request), and supports a wide range of mail  
clients:
          Windows: Microsoft Outlook, PocoMail, Pegasus Mail, Eudora,  
Mozilla Thunderbird, plus any mbox capable email client.
          Mac OS X: Apple Mail, PowerMail, Microsoft Entourage, plus  
any mbox capable email client.
          Mac OS 7.1-9.x: Microsoft Outlook Express, Microsoft  
Entourage, plus any mbox capable email client.

     More informations and downloadable demo version at : http:// 
www.manybases.com

About ManyBases:

     ManyBases, formed in 2004 is a young company featuring skilled  
programmers with a long time experience in different areas, including  
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     Heading the development team, Frederic Rinaldi is worldwide  
known for his commitment on object based languages and his amazing  
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     ManyBases is devoted to developing high quality software on all  
available platforms (Mac OS, Window, Unix, Linux). Software developed  
by ManyBases is distributed exclusively through Internet.

     ManyBases is currently focusing on developing powerful and  
original commercial tools, FastMailBase being the first in the line  
of products. Our ultimate goal is to create software that is  
remarkable and recognizable by any user and that compliments the way  
the human brain works. If a user expects a feature to be present, it  
will be.

     ManyBases works with leading companies on the software market to  
ensure the superior quality of its software and services. 


Fr?d?ric RINALDI

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Oct 29 04:09:05 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 10:09:05 +0200
Subject: 2.6.1 very slow on Win XP?
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-F28A50B3E96689CCFC80957AC6A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20051029073522.AD29982563F@mail.runrev.com>

I use it with 512 mbs of ram at home and it's fast. 

When I did have problems it was with stacks opened across
a network... Opening, saving was tortuous...

Using any libraries that do anything behind???

cheers
Xavier 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Kurt Kaufman
> Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 5:08 AM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: 2.6.1 very slow on Win XP?
> 
> Thanks to all who replied.
> I am using no anti-virus software, and it's a pretty basic 
> Win XP SP1 installation.
> I have a feeling that, aside from the intial startup delay, 
> it might be due to the fact that the stacks I'm running open 
> other stacks across a local network. There's always a bit of 
> a delay in normal function there; perhaps some interior 
> Rev-IDE scripts bog down.
> 
> Also, I opened a copy of a stack previously opened from 
> across the network; and I forgot that Rev does not 
> necessarily release resources and settings when a stack is 
> closed.  Maybe it got something confused....
> 
> In any case, I was able to get the work I needed done 
> eventually.  In general, I find the Rev environment to be 
> quicker and more responsive when run on Mac OS X, so I do 
> most of my work there, and then do a bit of tweaking using 
> the Windows editor afterwards.  I can't really explain the 
> perceived difference; the computers used are a 1.3 mHz Mac 
> and a 2 mHz Dell. 
>   Maybe the memory?  The Mac has 768 MB and the Dell 512 MB.  
> Is 512 MB insufficient?
> 
> Thanks, Kurt
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Sat Oct 29 05:07:01 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 11:07:01 +0200
Subject: Creating sub-menus a la the inspector?
In-Reply-To: <p06230900bf88951b2fc6@[69.85.136.53]>
References: <20051028220044.55F458255FD@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230900bf88951b2fc6@[69.85.136.53]>
Message-ID: <01F61076-2739-4D48-859E-B7F228F9E4FD@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Jim,

If I understand correctly your question, you want to build a menu  
with sub-menus (a hierarchical menu).
That's easy using tabs you place in front of menu items to specify  
they are sub-menu items.
With this method, you can build hierarchical menus including as many  
rows as you need.
You will build your menu on-the-fly at mouseDown in the way you want  
according to the number of items you have to display :-)
Have a look at my "How to Build and Manage Dynamic Menus" available  
from Tutorials Picker to get started:

. How to build on-the-fly a menu with sub-menus from an outline  
stored into a custom property.
. How to add contextual items, checkmark, activate or disable menu  
items, etc.
. How to respond to the user's actions: choosing a menu item, using a  
keyboard shortcut, etc.

Tutorials Picker is available from my website (Revolution > Plugins)  
or Rev Online (user: So Smart Software)

Best Regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.

Le 29 oct. 05 ? 05:07, Jim Hurley a ?crit :

> How would one go about creating those sub-menus in an option menu  
> (or whatever) that appear in the inspector when there are more  
> then  20 menus or fields etc.?
>
> Jim

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From kurtkaufman at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 29 08:56:32 2005
From: kurtkaufman at hotmail.com (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 12:56:32 +0000
Subject: 2.6.1 very slow on Win XP?
In-Reply-To: <20051029072212.21BFE825639@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-F33C17A61EC9C82398C84CFAC6A0@phx.gbl>

From: Chipp Walters <chipp at chipp.com>
Subject: Re: 2.6.1 very slow on Win XP?
To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4363028E.7040309 at chipp.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Thanks, Chip; I'll try that.

Chipp Walters wrote:
[...]

Easy to fix. Go to Prefs->Files & Memory and set the Number of items: to
0. Then close prefs and restart. You can then reset prefs to whatever
number you want.




From rmicout at online.fr  Sat Oct 29 09:06:29 2005
From: rmicout at online.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Micout?=)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 15:06:29 +0200
Subject: Tabs
Message-ID: <72641B68-97CD-457F-A56D-AF31A31B652E@online.fr>

Hello,
Is it possible to define tabs (right, left, center, decimal like word  
processor) with tabStop ?
If yes, then how ?
If no, then when ?
Ren? Micout
Paris, OS X Tiger, Dreamcard 2.6.1

From david at openpartnership.net  Sat Oct 29 09:07:28 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 15:07:28 +0200
Subject: Professional or "novice user":  the best of both worlds?
In-Reply-To: <0A7EB28D-CE2B-4009-938D-EFE2FC5DDAF6@danshafer.com>
References: <04db4c7d547a31cc25fc2a4f22a2d851@runrev.com>
	<p06200702bf870785478b@[10.0.1.2]>
	<B4BF1D00-7A22-439B-864F-B0089A86BD2E@danshafer.com>
	<p06200703bf873856b8cd@[10.0.1.2]>
	<A8DD8FD3-318A-4680-BFDC-C2801E93740C@danshafer.com>
	<p06200701bf881b5aee06@[10.0.1.2]>
	<0A7EB28D-CE2B-4009-938D-EFE2FC5DDAF6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <92D46E26-BD91-4DFA-8DD6-224939F55985@openpartnership.net>

On 29 Oct 2005, at 01:11, Dan Shafer wrote:

> I think the answer is yes but this opens a whole can of worms about  
> how to position, package, price and market Rev, whether for the  
> audience you and I see or for the professional programmer. RunRev  
> tries to both and I don't think that can be done well. At least  
> I've never seen it done well.

I think they have done a great job taking an essentially unix based  
vertical market tool and packaging it for first time and semi- 
professional users. However as you point out this is hard to combine  
with the professional end of the market. Problem being that if there  
is no commercial / professional end then the new users won't take the  
time and investment to learn it!

<rant type="positive">
-
Another reason to let go a little of the professional end of the  
market. Re-introduce the ability to license the full source code,  
take a positive and clear stance on open source, and provide a clear  
direction for developers to build and extend the toolset provided by  
the Rev IDE but for other business sectors. Open source code  
developed in this market can be packaged and sold as professionally  
documented and supported components, or bundled with the IDE. A  
ransom model would allow developers to "go ahead" finish a tool - and  
if RunRev perceived a clear market for it - pay the ransom as a  
monthly subscription - and open source it after the ransom was met.  
There are many other business models for this sort of community  
development. Opening things up a little, and giving a clear  
direction, would allow us to experiment a little here to try out the  
best models.

That way they can concentrate on selling the flow of sustainable  
benefits from the professional markets, and package them nicely into  
the worlds most powerful well documented and easy to use cross  
platform development environment - for those users who just want a  
tool that works.
-
</rant>


From david at openpartnership.net  Sat Oct 29 09:19:09 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 15:19:09 +0200
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <4362E13C.8030903@chipp.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510281902230.1989-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<4362E13C.8030903@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <C0085883-DDF7-4D54-8E54-4F3A27B7FA59@openpartnership.net>

On 29 Oct 2005, at 04:41, Chipp Walters wrote:

> I couldn't agree with you more. The multiple books available for  
> HyperCard, including Dan Shafer's and Danny Goodman's excellent  
> tomes, were invaluable to me for learning how to work with  
> HyperCard. That is one of the reasons why I'm pushing for both  
> 'linearity' and 'xml' for whatever wiki is created.

Totally Chipp!

Wiki's as with HyperCard in fact (wiki's originated with, were  
inspired by, and were first programmed in HyperCard) - both have the  
same advantage and bloody aweful problem, of encouraging non- 
linearity. It is so easy to link anything to anything that you end up  
with a god-awful wiki mess, and you spend the rest of your time  
trying to introduce style sheets, templates and navigation structure.

It's great for the first 20 cards / pages -but as the thing scales?!?  
Also seems to have some serious long term mental effects on the  
coders ability to project manage their work - oh oh another one gone  
non-linear :)

One way to overcome this with wiki's is to look at the area of  
overlap with blog's. I started to use blog posts - good XMLRPC  
support there - for developer updates on project tasks - much better  
navigation. Wiki's are good at dictionaries and free flow association.

By the way Chipp - if you are interested in the XML / PDF stuff take  
a look at Apache Forrest - found it easy to install - simple and  
quick to get up and running very structured project based sites with  
great pdf export. Site navigation is a simple XML file. Done some  
work integrating it with Revolution.


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Oct 29 11:08:53 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 17:08:53 +0200
Subject: Tabs
In-Reply-To: <72641B68-97CD-457F-A56D-AF31A31B652E@online.fr>
Message-ID: <20051029143508.41C0C82556C@mail.runrev.com>

Hi Rene

Use the tabstops of the field...

there's different settings so refer to the revdocs but it's measured in
pixels from start (or the previous tab)... And repeated as the last tabstop
set. 

cheers
Xavier 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Ren? Micout
> Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 3:06 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Tabs
> 
> Hello,
> Is it possible to define tabs (right, left, center, decimal like word
> processor) with tabStop ?
> If yes, then how ?
> If no, then when ?
> Ren? Micout
> Paris, OS X Tiger, Dreamcard 
> 2.6.1_______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From rev at armbase.com  Sat Oct 29 11:10:14 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 16:10:14 +0100
Subject: action dependant on mainsttack
Message-ID: <20051029161014.ovj72w94pw0s8sgg@webmail.armbase.com>

Hi All
I'm trying to execute a handler (or in this case not execute) depepndant on the
mainstack.

As  a test I made on button on a stack "beeptest" with the script
on mouseup
    if the mainstack is "beeptest" then
        exit to top
        else
        beep
        end if
    end mouseup


But it still beeps.

I know it must be something simple. (apart from my brain that is)

Any ideas

cheers
Bob




From rmicout at online.fr  Sat Oct 29 11:16:44 2005
From: rmicout at online.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Micout?=)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 17:16:44 +0200
Subject: Tabs
In-Reply-To: <20051029143508.41C0C82556C@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051029143508.41C0C82556C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <E0C881E0-07B0-4B8A-84CC-1C7A36239EB2@online.fr>

Thank you,
but my question was about right (>), left (<), center (l), decimal  
(.) aligned (align?s ?) tabs, like with WindowScript  (you know ?)  
tabs possibility
Ren? Micout, Paris, Mac OS X Tiger, Dreamcard 2.6.1

Le 29 oct. 05 ? 17:08, MisterX a ?crit :

> Hi Rene
>
> Use the tabstops of the field...
>
> there's different settings so refer to the revdocs but it's  
> measured in
> pixels from start (or the previous tab)... And repeated as the last  
> tabstop
> set.
>
> cheers
> Xavier
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>> Ren? Micout
>> Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 3:06 PM
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: Tabs
>>
>> Hello,
>> Is it possible to define tabs (right, left, center, decimal like word
>> processor) with tabStop ?
>> If yes, then how ?
>> If no, then when ?
>> Ren? Micout
>> Paris, OS X Tiger, Dreamcard
>> 2.6.1_______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
>> your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Sat Oct 29 11:21:26 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Buster)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 17:21:26 +0200
Subject: action dependant on mainsttack
In-Reply-To: <20051029161014.ovj72w94pw0s8sgg@webmail.armbase.com>
References: <20051029161014.ovj72w94pw0s8sgg@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <33558CA4-6B84-4058-9CBB-C80ADD06BEC7@scarlet.be>

Hi,

Try this:


     if the mainstack of this stack is "beeptest" then


Greetings,
Wouter

On 29 Oct 2005, at 17:10, rev at armbase.com wrote:

> Hi All
> I'm trying to execute a handler (or in this case not execute)  
> depepndant on the
> mainstack.
>
> As  a test I made on button on a stack "beeptest" with the script
> on mouseup
>     if the mainstack is "beeptest" then
>         exit to top
>         else
>         beep
>         end if
>     end mouseup
>
>
> But it still beeps.
>
> I know it must be something simple. (apart from my brain that is)
>
> Any ideas
>
> cheers
> Bob
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From alex at tweedly.net  Sat Oct 29 11:42:52 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 16:42:52 +0100
Subject: Tabs
In-Reply-To: <E0C881E0-07B0-4B8A-84CC-1C7A36239EB2@online.fr>
References: <20051029143508.41C0C82556C@mail.runrev.com>
	<E0C881E0-07B0-4B8A-84CC-1C7A36239EB2@online.fr>
Message-ID: <4363987C.9020309@tweedly.net>

Ren? Micout wrote:

> Thank you,
> but my question was about right (>), left (<), center (l), decimal  
> (.) aligned (align?s ?) tabs, like with WindowScript  (you know ?)  
> tabs possibility


No, I'm afraid not. Tabstops are just like dumb tabstops on a typewriter 
- i.e. each column is left-aligned no support for different types of tabs.

You can usually get the desired effect, with a bit more effort and 
trouble, using multiple fields, possibly grouped to get scrolling, and 
setting the text align of each field..

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 28/10/2005



From rmicout at online.fr  Sat Oct 29 11:59:22 2005
From: rmicout at online.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Micout?=)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 17:59:22 +0200
Subject: Tabs
In-Reply-To: <4363987C.9020309@tweedly.net>
References: <20051029143508.41C0C82556C@mail.runrev.com>
	<E0C881E0-07B0-4B8A-84CC-1C7A36239EB2@online.fr>
	<4363987C.9020309@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <DA0F92BB-993F-43D0-8E23-77A6083D42F5@online.fr>

Thank you Alex, I did that a few years ago with HyperCard...
For the revolution staff : is it possible in the 2.7 version ?
Ren? Micout, Paris, Mac OS X Tiger, Dreamcard 2.6.1

Le 29 oct. 05 ? 17:42, Alex Tweedly a ?crit :

> Ren? Micout wrote:
>
>
>> Thank you,
>> but my question was about right (>), left (<), center (l),  
>> decimal  (.) aligned (align?s ?) tabs, like with WindowScript   
>> (you know ?)  tabs possibility
>>
>
>
> No, I'm afraid not. Tabstops are just like dumb tabstops on a  
> typewriter - i.e. each column is left-aligned no support for  
> different types of tabs.
>
> You can usually get the desired effect, with a bit more effort and  
> trouble, using multiple fields, possibly grouped to get scrolling,  
> and setting the text align of each field..
>
> -- 
> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date:  
> 28/10/2005
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From rev at armbase.com  Sat Oct 29 12:04:20 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 17:04:20 +0100
Subject: action dependant on mainsttack
In-Reply-To: <33558CA4-6B84-4058-9CBB-C80ADD06BEC7@scarlet.be>
References: <20051029161014.ovj72w94pw0s8sgg@webmail.armbase.com>
	<33558CA4-6B84-4058-9CBB-C80ADD06BEC7@scarlet.be>
Message-ID: <20051029170420.wjdr940628sk8840@webmail.armbase.com>

Quoting Buster <wouter.abraham at scarlet.be>:

> Hi,
>
> Try this:
>
>
>     if the mainstack of this stack is "beeptest" then
>
>
> Greetings,
> Wouter

Thanks Wouter.

Workes perfectly

ATB
Bob
>
> On 29 Oct 2005, at 17:10, rev at armbase.com wrote:
>
>> Hi All
>> I'm trying to execute a handler (or in this case not execute)  
>> depepndant on the
>> mainstack.
>>
>> As  a test I made on button on a stack "beeptest" with the script
>> on mouseup
>>     if the mainstack is "beeptest" then
>>         exit to top
>>         else
>>         beep
>>         end if
>>     end mouseup
>>
>>
>> But it still beeps.
>>
>> I know it must be something simple. (apart from my brain that is)
>>
>> Any ideas
>>
>> cheers
>> Bob
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>





From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Oct 29 12:34:16 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:34:16 -0700
Subject: ARGH! 2.6.1 keeps crashing
In-Reply-To: <7348a9e80510290057i29d5ee01s2f41e84ec58d9347@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000101c5dc5c$dd66c910$0201010a@proherp3t4vojr>
	<20051029072204.CF5B1825628@mail.runrev.com>
	<7348a9e80510290057i29d5ee01s2f41e84ec58d9347@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41C8DA2B-B638-4783-ACCF-236CB7CEC35B@danshafer.com>

I suspect there's something in your system causing this problem.  
Everyone who's been heard from here lately has been crowing about how  
stable and fast 2.6.1 is on Win2K and XP Pro and that's my experience  
as well though I use the Windows versions as little as possible  
because I'm a MacBigot.

You might want to try a clean reinstall of 2.6.1 and then gradually  
add back in plugins and libraries you use to see where the problem  
lies. If Rev is a primary tool, it's probably worth that hassle.

Good luck.

On Oct 29, 2005, at 12:57 AM, TJ Frame wrote:

> perhasp Im jus
> unlucky.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From see3d at writeme.com  Sat Oct 29 13:11:59 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 13:11:59 -0400
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <D4AFBA1D-D4D5-4B34-BB79-835E40714927@danshafer.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510281902230.1989-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<D4AFBA1D-D4D5-4B34-BB79-835E40714927@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <60EAE51E-DE0D-453F-B19A-511A105CE6AE@writeme.com>

I am not interested in supporting a mish-mash unstructured free-for- 
all of information.  That is not the point at all.  I like much of  
the structure of the current embedded Rev documentation.  The  
dictionary is immeasurably useful.  It is even more useful when  
integrated into the script editor as done in Constellation.  Web  
notes could have been useful --if it actually worked.

However, if RunRev were to just make a wiki available and say have at  
it, I would fear eminent failure.

What I envision, is a well structured database of information that is  
not only useful to newbie and professional, but allows for upgrading  
the information without waiting for an annual formal release cycle.   
We can call it a wiki, but I think it has to be better than the  
average wiki.  Not only does it need to better than a typical wiki,  
it also needs to do things that a book can not do.

Some of the things I would like to see:

1.  A single consensus wish list from user the community for RunRev  
to see --call it a rough draft spec
2.  A single consensus wish list from user the community for RunRev  
to see --call it a rough draft spec
3.  A single consensus wish list from user the community for RunRev  
to see --call it a rough draft spec

4.  Article change/delete by voting members --three strikes and you  
are out --or in
5.  Discussion about potential changes occur on the use-rev list as  
it does now
6.  Articles included or pointers to articles with attributions and  
pointers to "about the author" --like in the tutorial stacks
7.  Rev front end to integrate the site into tools (not browser  
dependent unless a pointer takes you to another web site)
8.  Starting page of link lists of your interest:
     a.  Learning Transcript --takes you to the next index page of  
topics (linear links take you from topic to topic inside an article,  
branches to download tutorials from other sites)
     b.  Language Dictionary --takes you to category index page  
(search always available)
     c.  How Do I --takes you to a category index where you drill  
down to ever more concise areas, then finally to a list of example/ 
discussions
     d.  Tools available to developers
     e.  Scripting styles
     f.  Other resources
     g...

As you can see, I look at this as a way of organizing the existing  
information and resources in one place.  I see it as fulfilling  
several major needs:
1.  That wonderful TOC and Index to the great information available  
(along with the hyperlinks that only an electronic book can have)
2.  A place to deposit many of the jewels of information that come  
from the use-rev list where they can be easily found by the inquiring  
mind
3.  Visibility for rev developers and web sites that is linked  
directly to the needs of the user --by virtue of were they are looking

Having the backing of RunRev for this project significantly increases  
the odds of success (from 40% to 80%), even if they provided nothing  
more than acknowledging it on their home page as the place to go to  
learn.

Dennis

On Oct 29, 2005, at 12:18 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Judy.....
>
> As everyone here knows, you and I don't always see eye to eye on  
> things. OK, we almost never see universe to universe. So what of it?
>
> But I thought that a LOT of what you share in this message is, as  
> the Brits say, spot-on. Those who are waiting for electronically  
> delivered information to replace paper-delivered information will  
> wait a long, long, LONG time. Meanwhile, we need to find better and  
> better ways to translate what is good and understandable and usable  
> about printed books into the digital universe. We keep trying.
>
> Dan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Oct 29 13:19:04 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 12:19:04 -0500
Subject: ANN: FastMailBase demonstrates the power of Revolution!
In-Reply-To: <4FDD911F-2F85-4941-A75E-CD2837DCBC39@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BF891938.2ECB5%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 10/29/05 3:05 AM, "Fr?d?ric RINALDI" <frederic at runrev.com> wrote:

>      ManyBases is proud to introduce FastMailBase, the first
> professional emails archiver available on the market.

Congratulations, Fr?d?ric! Well done - looks like a great app...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sat Oct 29 13:24:02 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 10:24:02 -0700
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <60EAE51E-DE0D-453F-B19A-511A105CE6AE@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <BF88FE42.23DB0%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Dennis Brown  wrote:

> I am not interested in supporting a mish-mash unstructured free-for-
> all of information.  That is not the point at all.  I like much of
> the structure of the current embedded Rev documentation.  The
> dictionary is immeasurably useful.  It is even more useful when
> integrated into the script editor as done in Constellation.  Web
> notes could have been useful --if it actually worked.
> 
> However, if RunRev were to just make a wiki available and say have at
> it, I would fear eminent failure.

This is exactly the kind of discussion that should move to the RevDocs
group.

 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RevDocs/

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From see3d at writeme.com  Sat Oct 29 13:34:02 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 13:34:02 -0400
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <BF88FE42.23DB0%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF88FE42.23DB0%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <2F3C01A4-B55F-470D-A551-53E9B782DDBC@writeme.com>

Scott,

Thank you for pointing that out to folks.
I am signed up, anyone else joining us?

Dennis

On Oct 29, 2005, at 1:24 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> This is exactly the kind of discussion that should move to the RevDocs
> group.
>
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RevDocs/
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Oct 29 14:41:52 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 13:41:52 -0500
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <BF88FE42.23DB0%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF88FE42.23DB0%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <4363C270.3020400@hyperactivesw.com>

Dennis Brown  wrote:
> 
> The
> dictionary is immeasurably useful.  It is even more useful when
> integrated into the script editor as done in Constellation.

It is. Right-click on a term in the script to see the dictionary entry.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From irog at mac.com  Sat Oct 29 15:12:40 2005
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 12:12:40 -0700
Subject: ANN: Simple Pendulum Simulation
Message-ID: <500E10E0-D52B-45F9-8C14-C0E8DD791674@mac.com>

A simple simulation of a simple pendulum . . .


                                 revOnlin -> User Spaces -> RogerG or  
Education.



Cheers, Roger


From wdesmet at wanadoo.nl  Sat Oct 29 15:18:52 2005
From: wdesmet at wanadoo.nl (William de Smet)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 21:18:52 +0200
Subject: Problem with editable field - what am I doing wong?
Message-ID: <CE06E32F-5F04-4C4C-9DA0-F93F3537FDF6@wanadoo.nl>

Hi there,

I'm new with revolution and I like it a lot.
I'm working on a educational script where pupils learn to put words  
in alphabetic order.
I've made a teacher part in the application where the words can be  
changed so the exercise is different each time.
(Just a editable field and linked to the exercise with the 'put'  
command).

After starting the standalone application the teacher can change the  
words and you can see the change in the exercise.

But here's my problem:
After quitting and restarting the standalone application the changed  
words are gone (not saved) and were back to the words I've put there.
Is it possible to save words with simple scripting? Do I need to add  
a database?

Thanks,  William





From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Sat Oct 29 15:52:50 2005
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 15:52:50 -0400
Subject: Crop image based on pixel color
Message-ID: <OFF3F5E8FF.61EA4F2A-ON852570A9.006C06FF@sealedair.com>

Imagine a jpg or png image (any format really) that has white space all 
around the image. What would be the most efficient way to sample the 
colors (quickly) and determine a rect that can be used to crop the image? 
Has this been done before? Got scripts?

Kind regards,
Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sat Oct 29 16:07:06 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 13:07:06 -0700
Subject: Crop image based on pixel color
In-Reply-To: <OFF3F5E8FF.61EA4F2A-ON852570A9.006C06FF@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <BF89247A.23DD7%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  wrote:

> Imagine a jpg or png image (any format really) that has white space all
> around the image. What would be the most efficient way to sample the
> colors (quickly) and determine a rect that can be used to crop the image?
> Has this been done before? Got scripts?

If you could guarantee that that the space around the image was *truly*
white (or some other solid color) and the images were not huge then this
*might* be possible to some extent.  However, many images, most notably
JPEGs, can have color variations in the white space due to compression,
which makes this a tough thing for Rev to do natively if you want it done
fast.  The other issue is, if the white space is irregular, then you
basically need to sample virtually every point around image, looking for
non-white-space color changes.  Again, I might be wrong but I think this
would be hard to do natively if it needs to be fast.

I know Chipp Walters of Altuit was working with some kind of Photoshop-like
algorithms or libraries -- maybe he has some insight.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Oct 29 16:58:29 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 16:58:29 -0400
Subject: Problem with editable field - what am I doing wong?
In-Reply-To: <CE06E32F-5F04-4C4C-9DA0-F93F3537FDF6@wanadoo.nl>
References: <CE06E32F-5F04-4C4C-9DA0-F93F3537FDF6@wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <51982c147a42d6c179d0818da6847114@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 29, 2005, at 3:18 PM, William de Smet wrote:

> After quitting and restarting the standalone application the changed 
> words are gone (not saved) and were back to the words I've put there.
> Is it possible to save words with simple scripting? Do I need to add a 
> database?

No, you just need to keep your data in a stack which is not a substack 
of the application. That way, you can issue "Save stack ..." from the 
application after changes have been made to it.

Create a new stack, keep your data field in it, and reference to it 
from your standalone main stack. (Standalone applications cannot save 
themselves.)
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From see3d at writeme.com  Sat Oct 29 17:00:28 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 17:00:28 -0400
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <4363C270.3020400@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <BF88FE42.23DB0%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<4363C270.3020400@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <84924C5A-9273-41B1-952D-700E49EA31C8@writeme.com>

Thanks for pointing that out.

Just shows how easy it is to forget a feature when you have not used  
the tool in many months --I have been using Constellation since it  
was first made available, and I did not use the IDE for very many  
months before I switched.

Dennis

On Oct 29, 2005, at 2:41 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Dennis Brown  wrote:
>
>> The
>> dictionary is immeasurably useful.  It is even more useful when
>> integrated into the script editor as done in Constellation.
>>
>
> It is. Right-click on a term in the script to see the dictionary  
> entry.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Sat Oct 29 17:02:21 2005
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 17:02:21 -0400
Subject: Crop image based on pixel color
Message-ID: <OF118562B2.DECAE6D1-ON852570A9.0071EBAF@sealedair.com>

A few moments ago, Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:
> Recently, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  wrote:
> 
>> Imagine a jpg or png image (any format really) that has white space all
>> around the image. What would be the most efficient way to sample the
>> colors (quickly) and determine a rect that can be used to crop the 
image?
>> Has this been done before? Got scripts?
> 
> If you could guarantee that that the space around the image was *truly*
> white (or some other solid color) and the images were not huge then this
> *might* be possible to some extent.  However, many images, most notably
> JPEGs, can have color variations in the white space due to compression,
> which makes this a tough thing for Rev to do natively if you want it 
done fast.

Determining if a pixel is 'lighter than' some value would be ok. It 
doesn't have to be absolute white. The goal is to present the user with an 
adjustable crop box that has already positioned itself 'close' to the 
desired crop rect.

> The other issue is, if the white space is irregular, then you
> basically need to sample virtually every point around image, looking for
> non-white-space color changes.  Again, I might be wrong but I think this
> would be hard to do natively if it needs to be fast.

These images are huge. What I envision is a method that would 'look at' 
every 10th or 20th pixel as it loops through the image (for improved 
speed). In most cases, it would still achieve a rect that represents the 
boundaries of the image. The user would then make slight manual 
adjustments to the crop box.

> I know Chipp Walters of Altuit was working with some kind of 
Photoshop-like
> algorithms or libraries -- maybe he has some insight.

I hope he releases altCropMagic (in the style of his other wonderful 
stacks)!  ;-)   Come on Chipp!!!

> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design

Kind regards,
Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>



From jhurley at infostations.com  Sat Oct 29 17:37:09 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 14:37:09 -0700
Subject: Creating sub-menus a la the inspector?
In-Reply-To: <20051029164858.631268255E7@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051029164858.631268255E7@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230904bf89990239d4@[69.85.158.83]>

>
>Hi Jim,
>
>If I understand correctly your question, you want to build a menu 
>with sub-menus (a hierarchical menu).
>That's easy using tabs you place in front of menu items to specify 
>they are sub-menu items.
>With this method, you can build hierarchical menus including as many 
>rows as you need.
>You will build your menu on-the-fly at mouseDown in the way you want 
>according to the number of items you have to display :-)
>Have a look at my "How to Build and Manage Dynamic Menus" available 
>from Tutorials Picker to get started:
>
>. How to build on-the-fly a menu with sub-menus from an outline 
>stored into a custom property.
>. How to add contextual items, checkmark, activate or disable menu
>items, etc.
>. How to respond to the user's actions: choosing a menu item, using a
>keyboard shortcut, etc.


Hi Eric,

Thanks a lot. I tried using the tab before, but  all I got was something like:

Choice 1
     Sub a
     Sub b
Choice 2
     Sub c

Etc. That is the literal result of what I put in the button text.

On exploring further, I see the tab creates a submenu only in Pull 
Down and Pop Up styles. I think that was where I went wrong earlier.

Small bug: If you create a PullDown button, change it to a Combo Box, 
and then back to a PullDown, the button name disappears. Only by 
putting the cursor into the Labels field and hitting return, will the 
button name (not the label name) reappear. This applies to 2.6 and 
2.6.1 alike.

Thanks again,

Jim


From stevef at upnaway.com  Sat Oct 29 17:46:01 2005
From: stevef at upnaway.com (Flavel Steve)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 05:46:01 +0800
Subject: Applications, Processes and Alt-TAB
Message-ID: <4C96765F-ABE3-4A0A-97C1-9F047A858529@upnaway.com>

Hi
I am just beginning to learn Revolution, by converting an old VB6  
project.  I am using OS 10.4.2 on a Macintosh.

When I compile the standalones, for the Mac version, Cmd-Tab works as  
expected.  The application name is listed, and I can move between  
open applications.

Under XP the following happens.

(I have the Windows Task Manager Open to see what is happening)
The application name is listed under the Processes tab.
The current Stack name is registered under the Application tab.
If I Alt-Tab, the current Stack name is removed from the Applications  
list.
And so I can't get back to it.  But the Application is still listed  
under the processes list.

If I compile a single stack test program then Alt-Tab works as  
expected.  The application is listed under Applications, and there is  
no entry in the Processes TAB.


I have searched the archives, but can't find any help there.


Steve  Flavel





From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Oct 29 17:57:06 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 16:57:06 -0500
Subject: Crop image based on pixel color
In-Reply-To: <OF118562B2.DECAE6D1-ON852570A9.0071EBAF@sealedair.com>
References: <OF118562B2.DECAE6D1-ON852570A9.0071EBAF@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <4363F032.7000904@chipp.com>

Hi Roger,

You might want to check out "altMakeTransparent" and 
"imageTransparencyDemo",  stacks I wrote a little while ago which would 
make a specified color rangers transparent in an image.

just enter into the msg box:
go URL "http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/ImageTrans.rev"
and
go URL "http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/altMakeTrans.rev"

You can visit
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Downloads.htm
for more stacks on manipulating images.

This should't be too hard to figure out based upon the above stacks.


best,

Chipp

Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:
> A few moments ago, Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:
> 
>>Recently, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Imagine a jpg or png image (any format really) that has white space all
>>>around the image. What would be the most efficient way to sample the
>>>colors (quickly) and determine a rect that can be used to crop the 



From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Oct 29 18:00:41 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 17:00:41 -0500
Subject: Applications, Processes and Alt-TAB
In-Reply-To: <4C96765F-ABE3-4A0A-97C1-9F047A858529@upnaway.com>
References: <4C96765F-ABE3-4A0A-97C1-9F047A858529@upnaway.com>
Message-ID: <4363F109.7040501@chipp.com>

Steve,

What are the decorations settings for your stack? IOW, does it have a 
standard window with titelbar? If not, then it won't show in the 
processes list and won't show when minimized (XP only)

best,
Chipp

Flavel Steve wrote:

> Under XP the following happens.
> 
> (I have the Windows Task Manager Open to see what is happening)
> The application name is listed under the Processes tab.
> The current Stack name is registered under the Application tab.
> If I Alt-Tab, the current Stack name is removed from the Applications  
> list.
> And so I can't get back to it.  But the Application is still listed  
> under the processes list.
> 
> If I compile a single stack test program then Alt-Tab works as  
> expected.  The application is listed under Applications, and there is  
> no entry in the Processes TAB.



From stevef at upnaway.com  Sat Oct 29 18:35:29 2005
From: stevef at upnaway.com (Flavel Steve)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 06:35:29 +0800
Subject: Applications, Processes and Alt-TAB
In-Reply-To: <4363F109.7040501@chipp.com>
References: <4C96765F-ABE3-4A0A-97C1-9F047A858529@upnaway.com>
	<4363F109.7040501@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <67ED56F5-B74A-4DD2-A457-FEEDE5329C64@upnaway.com>


Steve  Flavel



On 30/10/2005, at 6:00 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Steve,
>
> What are the decorations settings for your stack? IOW, does it have  
> a standard window with titelbar? If not, then it won't show in the  
> processes list and won't show when minimized (XP only)
Hi Chip

The Splash stack has is empty title , but all others are menu,title.

Watching the Windows Task Manager, the Application name is never  
listed as an Application, only under the Processes Tab.
The stack title is always listed under the Applications TAB, even for  
the Splash stack, with an empty title bar.
I changed the Splash stack to menu,title but no change.


>
> best,
> Chipp
>
> Flavel Steve wrote:
>
>
>> Under XP the following happens.
>> (I have the Windows Task Manager Open to see what is happening)
>> The application name is listed under the Processes tab.
>> The current Stack name is registered under the Application tab.
>> If I Alt-Tab, the current Stack name is removed from the  
>> Applications  list.
>> And so I can't get back to it.  But the Application is still  
>> listed  under the processes list.
>> If I compile a single stack test program then Alt-Tab works as   
>> expected.  The application is listed under Applications, and there  
>> is  no entry in the Processes TAB.
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>



From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 29 19:02:57 2005
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 16:02:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ANN] Tabbed interface v01
Message-ID: <20051029230257.28909.qmail@web40524.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi developers,

Download this version 01 of a tabbed interface
for stacks with many cards.

<http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/Tabbed_interfacev01.zip>

Yesterday, i started this stack and think could be 
an interesting starting point if you need to create
a tabbed interface.

This stack could be a lot more polished,
but i'm posting it today with the hope that it
picked the curiosity of many developers and newbies 
to start exploring, experimenting and publishing 
better tabbed interfaces for all RR/MC/DC developers!
:D

Usage:

When you click in a button in the navigation 
bar, you go to the card named in the button.

Each time you create a new card, a button
with the name of the card is added automatically 
to the top row and get a lighter backcolor
(think of this as a hilite).

Each time you delete a card, his button
is deleted automatically and the button of 
the top card get hilited.

Click the buttons named "Create Card" and 
"Delete this Card" to see this action.

If you select text in the main field,
you could get a contextual menu by clicking
with the third mouse button.

>From this contextual menu, you could create
a new card too. :D

Keep us posted in this mail list about any
enhancement that you could made to the
graphics and the code of this stack.

Have a nice weekend!

al



Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From katir at hindu.org  Sun Oct 30 01:13:28 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 19:13:28 -1000
Subject: Darwin cgi engine and sendmail
In-Reply-To: <2B3796CB-FF4C-4D5F-9638-2037CB822656@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <2B3796CB-FF4C-4D5F-9638-2037CB822656@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CF79801E-DF60-47CE-A0F8-EBAC573B483A@hindu.org>

Here you go Dave.. .from the application here that generates our  
Daily Hindu Press international..

This is running from a rev desktop stack in the GUI, but I'm pretty  
sure it will work from a CGI...

One  caveat there is a conf variable set for security, which limits  
the length of a single line input to sendmail to 990 chars. (google  
"sendmail 990" for this obscure bit of info)  Longer strings are auto  
broken with CRLF as far as I can tell. There are all kinds of scary  
admonitions not to change this setting (old mail client issues) hence  
my dreaful work around in the switch statement below.

Of course this assume the email is properly formatted I haven't  
included that here.. if you need it I can post that too... in the  
following "tMsg" contains a properly formatted, multi-part html/plain  
text email...



     # fix endlines to unix a
     replace numTochar(13) with numTochar (10) in tMsg

     # temp back up to hard drive
  put ($HOME &"/Desktop/temp.txt") into tPath
     put tMsg into url ("binfile:" & tPath)

     # introduce line breaks at the end of sentences into lines  
longer that 990 chars
     # and two such breaks in the case of lines longer than 1980 chars.
     # will break lines up to 2970 chars.
# Lines longer than that (very unlikely) will be broken by Sendmail  
at 990 with CRLF
# which appears as a space in the html email and a line break and  
space in the plain
# text version. This eliminates both:
     repeat for each line tLine in tMsg
         switch
         case len(tLine)<990
             put tLine & cr after tWrappedMsg
             next repeat
             break
         Case len(tLine)>1980
             set the itemdel to "."
             put round(the number of items of tLine/3) into tBreakPoint
             put cr before item (tBreakPoint+1) of tLine
             put cr before item (tBreakPoint*2) of tLine
             put tLine & cr after tWrappedMsg
             next repeat
             break
         Case len(tLine)>990
             set the itemdel to "."
             put round(the number of items of tLine/2) into tBreakPoint
             put cr before item (tBreakPoint+1) of tLine
             put tLine & cr after tWrappedMsg
             next repeat
             break
         end switch
     end repeat

     set the itemdel to "," # just in case!

     put tWrappedMsg into tMsg
     replace cr with "\n" in tMsg #probably not needed if everything  
is running from CGI...
     put tMsg into  $DailyHPIEmail

     # Do shell stuff and send mail, very simple...

     set the shellcommand to "/bin/sh"
     put "echo -e $DailyHPIEmail | sendmail -f hpi.list at hindu.org " &  
(fld "to" of cd "staticText")  into tCmd

     # check on status and inform user
     put shell(tCmd)  into tResult
     if tResult is empty then
         answer "Mail was sent...." with "OK"
     else
         answer tResult with "OK"
     end if

end createFinalEmailAndSendIt

On Oct 28, 2005, at 11:33 AM, Dave Cragg wrote:

> Hi good people
>
> Does anyone have any experience of using sendmail from the Darwin  
> cgi engine? (OS X 10.4.2)
>
> If so, could you let me know how it's done? Or if you know it's not  
> possible, could put me out of my misery and let me know.
>
> Cheers
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Sun Oct 30 05:42:20 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 10:42:20 +0000
Subject: Darwin cgi engine and sendmail
In-Reply-To: <A62EC193-F632-4B5C-89DB-AFAA33195927@mac.com>
References: <2B3796CB-FF4C-4D5F-9638-2037CB822656@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<A62EC193-F632-4B5C-89DB-AFAA33195927@mac.com>
Message-ID: <EEAF1EFD-00FB-4E85-83D7-303F410CC018@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 28 Oct 2005, at 22:46, Andre Garzia wrote:

>
> there was some snipet code by sivakatirswami showing that some time  
> ago on the list, I'll search the list and get back to you.
>

Thanks. Andre. I found a snippet on the Metacard list from some time  
ago. This used "open process". Unfortunately, I couldn't get it to work.

Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Here you go Dave.. .from the application here that generates our  
> Daily Hindu Press international..
>
> This is running from a rev desktop stack in the GUI, but I'm pretty  
> sure it will work from a CGI...


Thanks for this. Very promising. I got it working from my normal  
machine (OS X 10.4.2) from both a regular stack and a cgi.

But I can't get it to run on the machine I want to use (OS X 10.3.9).  
I get this error:

  postdrop: warning: unable to look up public/pickup: No such file or  
directory

Googling for this brings up a lot of discussion about unix/postfix  
configuration issues. (Not really a place I want to go.) But no  
obvious solution so far.

If anyone has any hints, I'd love to hear.

Cheers
Dave


From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Sun Oct 30 06:07:07 2005
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (graham samuel)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 12:07:07 +0100
Subject: Dumb question about RunRev Documentation
Message-ID: <D2FD6C5C-2BAA-46AE-B382-22D9C05A9EA7@wanadoo.fr>

I just read this under 'audioClip' in the Dictionary tab of the  
embedded documentation for RR 2.6.1:

> The audio clip object has a number of properties and messages  
> associated with it. To see a list of messages that can be sent to  
> an audio clip as a result of user actions or internal Revolution  
> events, open the "Transcript Language Dictionary" page of the main  
> Documentation window, and choose "Audio Clip Messages" from the  
> Show menu at the top.

I can't find a way to open the Transcript Language Dictionary and get  
a menu bar other than the normal RunRev development menu, which  
doesn't have a 'Show' menu. Am I supposed to open the Dictionary as a  
standalone or something? I imagine everyone else knows the answer -  
it's quite a long time since I've tried to find indirect info of this  
kind. BTW I did eventually find the info using the 'objects' button  
in the Docs window, but the route described above remains obscure to me.

TIA

Graham

----------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France




From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Sun Oct 30 06:08:25 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 11:08:25 +0000
Subject: Darwin cgi engine and sendmail
In-Reply-To: <EEAF1EFD-00FB-4E85-83D7-303F410CC018@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <2B3796CB-FF4C-4D5F-9638-2037CB822656@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<A62EC193-F632-4B5C-89DB-AFAA33195927@mac.com>
	<EEAF1EFD-00FB-4E85-83D7-303F410CC018@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <E267F679-54A0-4BD9-B942-6F0F4753A75A@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 30 Oct 2005, at 10:42, Dave Cragg wrote:
> Sivakatirswami wrote:
>
>
>> Here you go Dave.. .from the application here that generates our  
>> Daily Hindu Press international..
>>
>> This is running from a rev desktop stack in the GUI, but I'm  
>> pretty sure it will work from a CGI...
>>
>
>
> Thanks for this. Very promising. I got it working from my normal  
> machine (OS X 10.4.2) from both a regular stack and a cgi.
>
> But I can't get it to run on the machine I want to use (OS X  
> 10.3.9). I get this error:
>
>  postdrop: warning: unable to look up public/pickup: No such file  
> or directory
>

It looks like all I had to do was start postfix from the terminal on  
the 10.3.9 machine

sudo postfix check
sudo postfix start

(hint at www.macosxhints.com).
As soon as I did that, all the mail I'd tried to send previously  
suddenly arrived.

Thanks once again for the script.

Cheers
Dave


From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Oct 30 06:13:45 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 11:13:45 +0000
Subject: Darwin cgi engine and sendmail
In-Reply-To: <EEAF1EFD-00FB-4E85-83D7-303F410CC018@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <2B3796CB-FF4C-4D5F-9638-2037CB822656@lacscentre.co.uk>	<A62EC193-F632-4B5C-89DB-AFAA33195927@mac.com>
	<EEAF1EFD-00FB-4E85-83D7-303F410CC018@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4364AAE9.3040800@tweedly.net>

Dave Cragg wrote:

> Thanks for this. Very promising. I got it working from my normal  
> machine (OS X 10.4.2) from both a regular stack and a cgi.
>
> But I can't get it to run on the machine I want to use (OS X 10.3.9).  
> I get this error:
>
>  postdrop: warning: unable to look up public/pickup: No such file or  
> directory
>
> Googling for this brings up a lot of discussion about unix/postfix  
> configuration issues. (Not really a place I want to go.) But no  
> obvious solution so far.
>
postfix is an email sending program - a replacement for the normal sendmail.
It is "sendmail compatible" (to some level of compatibility) - sounds 
like it is either misconfigured, or somehow the machine has got both 
sendmail and postfix running and they are in conflict.
(www.postfix.org)

I'd start by trying sendmail from the command line - can it send mail at 
all ?
If not, fix that before doing anything from Rev.

If it can, then try a variant using the same switches as you intend to 
use (may be a problem with mail lists, or multiple addresses, etc. ) and 
then with the same list of addresses.

.... and about then I run out of suggestions :-(

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 28/10/2005



From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Oct 30 07:32:17 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 12:32:17 +0000
Subject: Dumb question about RunRev Documentation
In-Reply-To: <D2FD6C5C-2BAA-46AE-B382-22D9C05A9EA7@wanadoo.fr>
References: <D2FD6C5C-2BAA-46AE-B382-22D9C05A9EA7@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <4364BD51.7020409@tweedly.net>

graham samuel wrote:

> I just read this under 'audioClip' in the Dictionary tab of the  
> embedded documentation for RR 2.6.1:
>
>> The audio clip object has a number of properties and messages  
>> associated with it. To see a list of messages that can be sent to  an 
>> audio clip as a result of user actions or internal Revolution  
>> events, open the "Transcript Language Dictionary" page of the main  
>> Documentation window, and choose "Audio Clip Messages" from the  Show 
>> menu at the top.
>
>
> I can't find a way to open the Transcript Language Dictionary and get  
> a menu bar other than the normal RunRev development menu, which  
> doesn't have a 'Show' menu. Am I supposed to open the Dictionary as a  
> standalone or something? I imagine everyone else knows the answer -  
> it's quite a long time since I've tried to find indirect info of this  
> kind. BTW I did eventually find the info using the 'objects' button  
> in the Docs window, but the route described above remains obscure to me.
>
Those instructions are for Rev documentation pre 2.5  (the docs were 
significantly revised and improved at 2.5).
The instructions work fine for 2.2 :-)

But if you don't have Rev 2.2 still installed, try

1. select the Objects button in the toolbar at the top of the doc window
2. expand the left menu/tree for   + Objects   +  AudioClip  + message
and you get the equivalent info.


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 28/10/2005



From david at openpartnership.net  Sun Oct 30 07:53:56 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 13:53:56 +0100
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <60EAE51E-DE0D-453F-B19A-511A105CE6AE@writeme.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510281902230.1989-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<D4AFBA1D-D4D5-4B34-BB79-835E40714927@danshafer.com>
	<60EAE51E-DE0D-453F-B19A-511A105CE6AE@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <B7912163-D12E-4B94-AA6E-13886ECF5A25@openpartnership.net>

100% Dennis - except I think you may have hit copy and paste by  
accident for points 2 and 3 :)

Could I propose that we use your post as "rough draft spec"? - and  
put it up on the wiki of course - which one is another matter :)


On 29 Oct 2005, at 19:11, Dennis Brown wrote:

> I am not interested in supporting a mish-mash unstructured free-for- 
> all of information.  That is not the point at all.  I like much of  
> the structure of the current embedded Rev documentation.  The  
> dictionary is immeasurably useful.  It is even more useful when  
> integrated into the script editor as done in Constellation.  Web  
> notes could have been useful --if it actually worked.
>
> However, if RunRev were to just make a wiki available and say have  
> at it, I would fear eminent failure.
>
> What I envision, is a well structured database of information that  
> is not only useful to newbie and professional, but allows for  
> upgrading the information without waiting for an annual formal  
> release cycle.  We can call it a wiki, but I think it has to be  
> better than the average wiki.  Not only does it need to better than  
> a typical wiki, it also needs to do things that a book can not do.
>
> Some of the things I would like to see:
>
> 1.  A single consensus wish list from user the community for RunRev  
> to see --call it a rough draft spec
> 2.  A single consensus wish list from user the community for RunRev  
> to see --call it a rough draft spec
> 3.  A single consensus wish list from user the community for RunRev  
> to see --call it a rough draft spec
>
> 4.  Article change/delete by voting members --three strikes and you  
> are out --or in
> 5.  Discussion about potential changes occur on the use-rev list as  
> it does now
> 6.  Articles included or pointers to articles with attributions and  
> pointers to "about the author" --like in the tutorial stacks
> 7.  Rev front end to integrate the site into tools (not browser  
> dependent unless a pointer takes you to another web site)
> 8.  Starting page of link lists of your interest:
>     a.  Learning Transcript --takes you to the next index page of  
> topics (linear links take you from topic to topic inside an  
> article, branches to download tutorials from other sites)
>     b.  Language Dictionary --takes you to category index page  
> (search always available)
>     c.  How Do I --takes you to a category index where you drill  
> down to ever more concise areas, then finally to a list of example/ 
> discussions
>     d.  Tools available to developers
>     e.  Scripting styles
>     f.  Other resources
>     g...
>
> As you can see, I look at this as a way of organizing the existing  
> information and resources in one place.  I see it as fulfilling  
> several major needs:
> 1.  That wonderful TOC and Index to the great information available  
> (along with the hyperlinks that only an electronic book can have)
> 2.  A place to deposit many of the jewels of information that come  
> from the use-rev list where they can be easily found by the  
> inquiring mind
> 3.  Visibility for rev developers and web sites that is linked  
> directly to the needs of the user --by virtue of were they are looking
>
> Having the backing of RunRev for this project significantly  
> increases the odds of success (from 40% to 80%), even if they  
> provided nothing more than acknowledging it on their home page as  
> the place to go to learn.


From david at openpartnership.net  Sun Oct 30 07:55:18 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 13:55:18 +0100
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <2F3C01A4-B55F-470D-A551-53E9B782DDBC@writeme.com>
References: <BF88FE42.23DB0%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<2F3C01A4-B55F-470D-A551-53E9B782DDBC@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <89B779D0-AFC6-40B5-B1E4-B4BCA6242C84@openpartnership.net>

Yes - but still waiting for Yahoo groups to verify my email address -  
god I hate Yahoo groups.

On 29 Oct 2005, at 19:34, Dennis Brown wrote:

> Scott,
>
> Thank you for pointing that out to folks.
> I am signed up, anyone else joining us?



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sun Oct 30 07:56:54 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 07:56:54 -0500
Subject: tiny mystery
Message-ID: <148DC898-7A56-494A-B08F-FF6E9A4FA3D4@conncoll.edu>

I've got a dialog substack that includes two fields with listBehavior  
set to true. I fill them up from scripts -- a preOpenStack handler  
for one, and for the other an "on selectionChanged" handler called  
when something from the first list one is selected.

I don't want anything to be selected in either one until the user  
selects something. So at the end of both list-filling handlers, I  
include the line

         set the hilitedLine of fld "oneOfTheListFields" to 0

It works in one (the one filled after the user selects something from  
the other) but not in the one filled by the preOpenStack handler.  
That list shows a hilite on the blank line after the last item in the  
list. How do I get rid of it??

Charles Hartman




From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Sun Oct 30 08:55:07 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 13:55:07 +0000
Subject: tiny mystery
In-Reply-To: <148DC898-7A56-494A-B08F-FF6E9A4FA3D4@conncoll.edu>
References: <148DC898-7A56-494A-B08F-FF6E9A4FA3D4@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <E82A4384-3903-4954-8DFD-39EC2CF02D00@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 30 Oct 2005, at 12:56, Charles Hartman wrote:

> I've got a dialog substack that includes two fields with  
> listBehavior set to true. I fill them up from scripts -- a  
> preOpenStack handler for one, and for the other an "on  
> selectionChanged" handler called when something from the first list  
> one is selected.
>
> I don't want anything to be selected in either one until the user  
> selects something. So at the end of both list-filling handlers, I  
> include the line
>
>         set the hilitedLine of fld "oneOfTheListFields" to 0
>
> It works in one (the one filled after the user selects something  
> from the other) but not in the one filled by the preOpenStack  
> handler. That list shows a hilite on the blank line after the last  
> item in the list. How do I get rid of it??

One way round this would is to put the above line in an openStack  
handler instead of preopenStack.

Another way might be to set the traversalOn property of the fields to  
false. (Which might not be what you want.)

I think the problem is that Rev will focus on the first control with  
traversalOn *after* the preOpenStack handler runs. If ths control is  
a list field, it will hilite one of the lines (not sure why it's the  
last line in your case, it's the first here).

Cheers
Dave


From christian.brossier at free.fr  Sun Oct 30 09:16:05 2005
From: christian.brossier at free.fr (Christian Brossier)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 15:16:05 +0100
Subject: Problem with editable field -
In-Reply-To: <20051030120155.D42F482509B@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051030120155.D42F482509B@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <1EDE4C30-3259-4319-8ADA-FD98519A0B44@free.fr>


Le 30 oct. 05 ? 13:01, Troy Rollins a ?crit :

> No, you just need to keep your data in a stack which is not a  
> substack of the application.

I do not agree : you save as necessary in the scripts of the substack  
and, in the menu item "Standalone Application Settings ...", window  
"Stacks", you have just to check "Move substacks into individual  
stackfiles".

Christian Brossier

From marcus at runrev.com  Sun Oct 30 09:28:49 2005
From: marcus at runrev.com (Marcus van Houdt)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 14:28:49 +0000
Subject: Plain text or Unicodetext?
In-Reply-To: <2876254395e13fac515dcea3d5191153@yhb.att.ne.jp>
References: <000101c5d6cf$4ca6c7a0$0201010a@proherp3t4vojr>
	<2876254395e13fac515dcea3d5191153@yhb.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <7CB4B4D2-4951-11DA-A67B-0003936DB936@runrev.com>

Hello,

At present there is no way to directly check the encoding of the text 
entered in a field, however, you can detect it indirectly by checking 
the htmlText property of the field.
If plain text is entered there will be no "lang" attribute present in 
the "font" tag, however, if there is any unicode present in the field 
there will be a lang attribute for the font tag present.
You can try this out easily by typing a line of plain text in a field 
and then typing a line of unicode text before doing "put the htmlText 
of field "name you gave field" in the message box, you will notice 
there is only a lang tag present for the unicode text.

If you wish to determine whether text returned from a dialog is unicode 
or plain text, you will need to check the htmlText property of the 
field used in the dialog box to enter the text.


Regards,


Marcus


> Hi,
>
> Is there a way to determine if the text returned from a dialog is 
> ascii text or unicodedtext? I tried working with the chartonum, 
> useunicode and baseconvert functions to no avail.
>
> I tried converting and comparing uniencoded versions with the original 
> text and no go. I have tried what I know so I turn to the list.
>
> Thanks
> Ron
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Sun Oct 30 09:38:50 2005
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (graham samuel)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 15:38:50 +0100
Subject: Dumb question about RunRev Documentation
Message-ID: <6979DAC4-7C7D-40FE-BE9A-4DAEBA90321E@wanadoo.fr>

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 12:32:17 +0000, Alex Tweedly <alex at tweedly.net>  
wrote:
> [...]
> Those instructions are for Rev documentation pre 2.5  (the docs were
> significantly revised and improved at 2.5).
> The instructions work fine for 2.2 :-)
>
> But if you don't have Rev 2.2 still installed, try
>
> 1. select the Objects button in the toolbar at the top of the doc  
> window
> 2. expand the left menu/tree for   + Objects   +  AudioClip  + message
> and you get the equivalent info.

Thanks Alex: from what you say, this amounts to a bug in the  
documentation of 2.6.1. I will bugzilla this anomaly, as presumably  
it will confuse others as much as it did me.

Graham

----------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France




From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sun Oct 30 09:40:27 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:40:27 -0500
Subject: tiny mystery
In-Reply-To: <E82A4384-3903-4954-8DFD-39EC2CF02D00@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <148DC898-7A56-494A-B08F-FF6E9A4FA3D4@conncoll.edu>
	<E82A4384-3903-4954-8DFD-39EC2CF02D00@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <77D0CE29-F32B-4E79-9BFE-A645C0CED0E0@conncoll.edu>

Excellent, that does it: openStack rather than preOpenStack. Thanks!

Charles

On Oct 30, 2005, at 8:55 AM, Dave Cragg wrote:

>
> On 30 Oct 2005, at 12:56, Charles Hartman wrote:
>
>
>> I've got a dialog substack that includes two fields with  
>> listBehavior set to true. I fill them up from scripts -- a  
>> preOpenStack handler for one, and for the other an "on  
>> selectionChanged" handler called when something from the first  
>> list one is selected.
>>
>> I don't want anything to be selected in either one until the user  
>> selects something. So at the end of both list-filling handlers, I  
>> include the line
>>
>>         set the hilitedLine of fld "oneOfTheListFields" to 0
>>
>> It works in one (the one filled after the user selects something  
>> from the other) but not in the one filled by the preOpenStack  
>> handler. That list shows a hilite on the blank line after the last  
>> item in the list. How do I get rid of it??
>>
>
> One way round this would is to put the above line in an openStack  
> handler instead of preopenStack.
>
> Another way might be to set the traversalOn property of the fields  
> to false. (Which might not be what you want.)
>
> I think the problem is that Rev will focus on the first control  
> with traversalOn *after* the preOpenStack handler runs. If ths  
> control is a list field, it will hilite one of the lines (not sure  
> why it's the last line in your case, it's the first here).
>
> Cheers
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sun Oct 30 09:56:13 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:56:13 -0500
Subject: tiny mystery
In-Reply-To: <77D0CE29-F32B-4E79-9BFE-A645C0CED0E0@conncoll.edu>
References: <148DC898-7A56-494A-B08F-FF6E9A4FA3D4@conncoll.edu>
	<E82A4384-3903-4954-8DFD-39EC2CF02D00@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<77D0CE29-F32B-4E79-9BFE-A645C0CED0E0@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <B1831CCC-5CE4-4F92-8F1D-F3A902A38581@conncoll.edu>

--but now I'm finding the same problem cropping up later,farther down.

Example: user selects a line in the list-field and clicks a button to  
"delete this entry". The deletion works fine, and the hilited line  
disappears from the list (and, behind that, the record that it  
represents in the database is deleted).

But where can I put a line to DE-select (unhilite) all lines in the  
field after that? Putting it at the end of the handler that does the  
deletion doesn't work; putting it in the handler that calls the  
deletion handler, after the call, doesn't work. In both cases, I end  
up with the blank line at the end of the (now shortened) list hilited.

So there's something general I don't understand. What's sneaking in  
and puting hilites where I haven't asked for them in a script and the  
user hasn't clicked anything new?

Charles Hartman

On Oct 30, 2005, at 9:40 AM, Charles Hartman wrote:

> Excellent, that does it: openStack rather than preOpenStack. Thanks!
>
> Charles
>
> On Oct 30, 2005, at 8:55 AM, Dave Cragg wrote:
>
>
>>
>> On 30 Oct 2005, at 12:56, Charles Hartman wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I've got a dialog substack that includes two fields with  
>>> listBehavior set to true. I fill them up from scripts -- a  
>>> preOpenStack handler for one, and for the other an "on  
>>> selectionChanged" handler called when something from the first  
>>> list one is selected.
>>>
>>> I don't want anything to be selected in either one until the user  
>>> selects something. So at the end of both list-filling handlers, I  
>>> include the line
>>>
>>>         set the hilitedLine of fld "oneOfTheListFields" to 0
>>>
>>> It works in one (the one filled after the user selects something  
>>> from the other) but not in the one filled by the preOpenStack  
>>> handler. That list shows a hilite on the blank line after the  
>>> last item in the list. How do I get rid of it??
>>>
>>>
>>
>> One way round this would is to put the above line in an openStack  
>> handler instead of preopenStack.
>>
>> Another way might be to set the traversalOn property of the fields  
>> to false. (Which might not be what you want.)
>>
>> I think the problem is that Rev will focus on the first control  
>> with traversalOn *after* the preOpenStack handler runs. If ths  
>> control is a list field, it will hilite one of the lines (not sure  
>> why it's the last line in your case, it's the first here).
>>
>> Cheers
>> Dave
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Oct 30 10:55:36 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 07:55:36 -0800
Subject: RevDocs group on a Yahoo
In-Reply-To: <89B779D0-AFC6-40B5-B1E4-B4BCA6242C84@openpartnership.net>
References: <BF88FE42.23DB0%scott@tactilemedia.com>	<2F3C01A4-B55F-470D-A551-53E9B782DDBC@writeme.com>
	<89B779D0-AFC6-40B5-B1E4-B4BCA6242C84@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <4364ECF8.7010700@fourthworld.com>

[Forgive my changing the subject line, with after more than 100 messages 
about wikis in the last three days more than a few readers have shared 
with me that their head will explode if they see "wiki" in the subject 
line of what used to be the use-rev list.]

David Bovill wrote:
 > On 29 Oct 2005, at 19:34, Dennis Brown wrote:
 >> Thank you for pointing that out to folks.
 >> I am signed up, anyone else joining us?
 >
 > Yes - but still waiting for Yahoo groups to verify my email address -
 > god I hate Yahoo groups.

I doubt it's mutual.

Perhaps your hatred extends to an overzealous spam filter?

I just created another Yahoo ID.  The form took slightly more than a 
minute to fill in, and the confirmation email took less than a minute to 
arrive at the address I entered.  This is consistent with my previous 
experience with Yahoo being at least as easy as just about any other 
accounts-based site.

And if you're already a member any of the other dozen or so 
xTalk-related groups on Yahoo, such as the MC IDE, Rev_IPC, HyperCard, 
or SuperCard lists, it should not be necessary to register.  Just click 
one on the "Join this Group" link and you're in.

The URL for the RevDocs group is:
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RevDocs/>

Looking forward to seeing you there.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Sun Oct 30 11:29:51 2005
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (graham samuel)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 17:29:51 +0100
Subject: Getting generic OSX icon in standalone
Message-ID: <26FD71AB-369C-4948-BFDF-3F27E811B780@wanadoo.fr>

I've been making a Standalone on OSX Tiger (10.2.4). I believe I have  
a well-formed icon - a .icns file made with Iconographer, including  
the largest size version (128x128). I can make the Standalone easily  
enough, and when I put it in the Applications folder, I get the  
proper icon; but if I leave the app in another folder outside  
Applications, I get the Apple generic icon for an application, and  
the documents for this app also get a (different) generic icon rather  
than the one I designed - although I can see versions of the doc icon  
in file dialogs within the application. Is this what's supposed to  
happen? The only item I got when I searched for this issue in the  
list archive was an inconclusive conversation between John and Derek  
Bump, back in January of this year.

Can anyone help?

Graham


----------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France




From irog at mac.com  Sun Oct 30 11:37:12 2005
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 08:37:12 -0800
Subject: Dumb question about RunRev Documentation
In-Reply-To: <20051030120156.28D1982509E@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051030120156.28D1982509E@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <178925A0-B9DB-4F9D-9EB6-53B4A90E666F@mac.com>

Alex,

AudioClip doesn't offer to expand to messages on my copy of 2.6.1.   
What version are you using?  If I'm correct, is there yet another way  
to get to the messages in version 2.6.1??

Cheers, Roger


On Oct 30, 2005, at 4:01 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com  
wrote:

> graham samuel wrote:
>
>>
>>
> Those instructions are for Rev documentation pre 2.5  (the docs were
> significantly revised and improved at 2.5).
> The instructions work fine for 2.2 :-)
>
> But if you don't have Rev 2.2 still installed, try
>
> 1. select the Objects button in the toolbar at the top of the doc  
> window
> 2. expand the left menu/tree for   + Objects   +  AudioClip  + message
> and you get the equivalent info.

> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Sun Oct 30 12:29:33 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 17:29:33 +0000
Subject: Darwin cgi engine and sendmail
In-Reply-To: <4364AAE9.3040800@tweedly.net>
References: <2B3796CB-FF4C-4D5F-9638-2037CB822656@lacscentre.co.uk>	<A62EC193-F632-4B5C-89DB-AFAA33195927@mac.com>
	<EEAF1EFD-00FB-4E85-83D7-303F410CC018@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<4364AAE9.3040800@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <01B66850-3A76-438A-8550-5007D6A6B902@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 30 Oct 2005, at 11:13, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Dave Cragg wrote:
>
>
>> Thanks for this. Very promising. I got it working from my normal   
>> machine (OS X 10.4.2) from both a regular stack and a cgi.
>>
>> But I can't get it to run on the machine I want to use (OS X  
>> 10.3.9).  I get this error:
>>
>>  postdrop: warning: unable to look up public/pickup: No such file  
>> or  directory
>>
>> Googling for this brings up a lot of discussion about unix/ 
>> postfix  configuration issues. (Not really a place I want to go.)  
>> But no  obvious solution so far.
>>
>>
> postfix is an email sending program - a replacement for the normal  
> sendmail.
> It is "sendmail compatible" (to some level of compatibility) -  
> sounds like it is either misconfigured, or somehow the machine has  
> got both sendmail and postfix running and they are in conflict.
> (www.postfix.org)
>
> I'd start by trying sendmail from the command line - can it send  
> mail at all ?
> If not, fix that before doing anything from Rev.
>
> If it can, then try a variant using the same switches as you intend  
> to use (may be a problem with mail lists, or multiple addresses,  
> etc. ) and then with the same list of addresses.
>
> .... and about then I run out of suggestions :-(

Thanks, Alex. As you probaby saw, I managed to get it working,  
applying the sophisticated method of "turning it on".

I've never paid much attention to how mail works on any computer I've  
used. I just take it for granted. On OS X, I knew that Postfix was  
installed, but had no idea how it was used, if at all, by e-mail  
applications. I still don't know.   I just hope by starting up  
postfix, I haven't created a calamity of any kind. Fingers crossed!. :-)

Cheers
Dave




From mdswindell at charter.net  Sun Oct 30 13:20:54 2005
From: mdswindell at charter.net (Mark Swindell)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 10:20:54 -0800
Subject: Getting generic OSX icon in standalone
In-Reply-To: <26FD71AB-369C-4948-BFDF-3F27E811B780@wanadoo.fr>
References: <26FD71AB-369C-4948-BFDF-3F27E811B780@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <1768AE23-92D3-47D4-8BFF-4CEF3A7F2D76@charter.net>

I can't help, sorry, but I have met with a lot of frustration around  
the whole icon experience myself.  This is an area where a Rev-based  
Icon App would be very appreciated. The standalone builder icon  
scheme hasn't worked properly for me.

Bring the icons into the app, point them at the standalone(s), click  
"Assign Icons,"  and have it be so.

Mark

On Oct 30, 2005, at 8:29 AM, graham samuel wrote:

> I've been making a Standalone on OSX Tiger (10.2.4). I believe I  
> have a well-formed icon - a .icns file made with Iconographer,  
> including the largest size version (128x128). I can make the  
> Standalone easily enough, and when I put it in the Applications  
> folder, I get the proper icon; but if I leave the app in another  
> folder outside Applications, I get the Apple generic icon for an  
> application, and the documents for this app also get a (different)  
> generic icon rather than the one I designed - although I can see  
> versions of the doc icon in file dialogs within the application. Is  
> this what's supposed to happen? The only item I got when I searched  
> for this issue in the list archive was an inconclusive conversation  
> between John and Derek Bump, back in January of this year.
>
> Can anyone help?
>
> Graham
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
> Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Oct 30 13:51:38 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 12:51:38 -0600
Subject: Getting generic OSX icon in standalone
In-Reply-To: <1768AE23-92D3-47D4-8BFF-4CEF3A7F2D76@charter.net>
References: <26FD71AB-369C-4948-BFDF-3F27E811B780@wanadoo.fr>
	<1768AE23-92D3-47D4-8BFF-4CEF3A7F2D76@charter.net>
Message-ID: <4365163A.1070209@hyperactivesw.com>

Mark Swindell wrote:
> I can't help, sorry, but I have met with a lot of frustration around  
> the whole icon experience myself. 

Here are some things to try. Much of the frustration revolves around OS 
X's reluctance to update its icon info in the Finder.

Build the standalone, assigning your own icons. After the build, if the 
icons don't appear, zip the file. Move the zip file to another folder. 
Unzip it into the new folder. See if it displays. This method usually 
causes the Finder to update its icon information.

If that doesn't work, right-click (control-click) the app and choose 
"Show package contents". Open Contents/Resources and then open one of 
the icon files in an icon editor such as the one provided by Apple's 
developer tools, or a shareware app such as Iconographer. If you see 
Rev's default icons, paste your own artwork into each icon's space, 
replacing the Revolution icons. Save the icon file. Close the icon 
editor. The new icons may not display right away, so do the zip trick again.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Sun Oct 30 13:55:30 2005
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (graham samuel)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:55:30 +0100
Subject: Getting generic OSX icon in standalone
Message-ID: <85CEAAA8-3D1E-4AB0-A4AC-7DE516484CB8@wanadoo.fr>

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 10:20:54 -0800, Mark Swindell  
<mdswindell at charter.net> wrote:

>
> I can't help, sorry, but I have met with a lot of frustration around
> the whole icon experience myself.  This is an area where a Rev-based
> Icon App would be very appreciated. The standalone builder icon
> scheme hasn't worked properly for me.
>
> Bring the icons into the app, point them at the standalone(s), click
> "Assign Icons,"  and have it be so.
>

Sorry Mark, I can't understand what you're saying - how can I 'bring  
the icons into the app'? And where and in what app is there an  
"Assign Icons" button? Looks like a great idea if only I could follow  
what you're saying.

Dumbly

Graham
----------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France




From david at openpartnership.net  Sun Oct 30 13:55:28 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:55:28 +0100
Subject: Geometry Question
In-Reply-To: <4364ECF8.7010700@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF88FE42.23DB0%scott@tactilemedia.com>	<2F3C01A4-B55F-470D-A551-53E9B782DDBC@writeme.com>
	<89B779D0-AFC6-40B5-B1E4-B4BCA6242C84@openpartnership.net>
	<4364ECF8.7010700@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <4E81A04C-D516-42A9-BF0E-084645DD44D9@openpartnership.net>

Tried this handler - but does not work as expected:

on resizeStack
     if the shiftkey is "Down" then
         -- do not let Rev Geometry manager auto-resize
         send "revCacheGeometry" to this card in 5 ticks
     else
         pass resizeStack
     end if
end resizeStack

The problem I have is that when working on lots of objects using the  
geometry manager they occasionally go haywire with no way to go back.  
With this handler I can hold down the shift key and resize the stack  
with some chance of getting hold of the objects - however the  
revCacheGeometry does not seem to fix things - if I manually move an  
object it mostly works.

Any tips?

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Oct 30 14:09:10 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 11:09:10 -0800
Subject: Getting generic OSX icon in standalone
In-Reply-To: <1768AE23-92D3-47D4-8BFF-4CEF3A7F2D76@charter.net>
References: <26FD71AB-369C-4948-BFDF-3F27E811B780@wanadoo.fr>
	<1768AE23-92D3-47D4-8BFF-4CEF3A7F2D76@charter.net>
Message-ID: <43651A56.6000601@fourthworld.com>

Mark Swindell wrote:
> I can't help, sorry, but I have met with a lot of frustration around  
> the whole icon experience myself.  This is an area where a Rev-based  
> Icon App would be very appreciated. The standalone builder icon  scheme 
> hasn't worked properly for me.

Changing the app that creates the icns files won't affect problems with 
how the Finder fails updating to draw them correctly.

Rather than go to all the effort to recreate an icon building tool in 
Rev, a more effective solution takes less of your time: 
<http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/>

:)

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Oct 30 14:16:33 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 11:16:33 -0800
Subject: Geometry Question
In-Reply-To: <4E81A04C-D516-42A9-BF0E-084645DD44D9@openpartnership.net>
References: <BF88FE42.23DB0%scott@tactilemedia.com>	<2F3C01A4-B55F-470D-A551-53E9B782DDBC@writeme.com>	<89B779D0-AFC6-40B5-B1E4-B4BCA6242C84@openpartnership.net>	<4364ECF8.7010700@fourthworld.com>
	<4E81A04C-D516-42A9-BF0E-084645DD44D9@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <43651C11.7050107@fourthworld.com>

David Bovill wrote:
> The problem I have is that when working on lots of objects using the  
> geometry manager they occasionally go haywire with no way to go back.  
...
> Any tips?

Just roll your own and move on to more interesting challenges.

While the Geometry Manager is convenient for newcomers with simple 
needs, complex layouts in which object positions are dependent on other 
object positions will always be difficult to handle in a completely 
abstract, generalized way.

So for simple layouts the GM's 48+k script is overkill, and for complex 
layouts it often doesn't provide the degree of control over the order in 
which objects are affected to give you the precise effect you're after.

In my shop all applications always handle the resizeStack message directly.

For simple layouts the code is compact and efficient.
For complex layouts we have total control.

While it can be midly tedious to write such a handler for really complex 
layouts, you only write it once and forget about it.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Oct 30 14:41:26 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 20:41:26 +0100
Subject: Geometry Question
In-Reply-To: <4E81A04C-D516-42A9-BF0E-084645DD44D9@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <20051030190720.2717B825019@mail.runrev.com>

David,

it's Sunday, 13 hours of work down the pipe today so I wont start again...

Look the mailist archives (if only there was a smart query wiki for that ;)
for my posts, rants, tips and quandaries with the RevGM and my solution
which is available on MonsieurX.com for such situations... no handbooks,
only for true scripters... Examples in any taoo stack on the site...
xosmedialib for one uses it extensively. 

cheers
Xavier 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> David Bovill
> Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 7:55 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Geometry Question
> 
> Tried this handler - but does not work as expected:
> 
> on resizeStack
>      if the shiftkey is "Down" then
>          -- do not let Rev Geometry manager auto-resize
>          send "revCacheGeometry" to this card in 5 ticks
>      else
>          pass resizeStack
>      end if
> end resizeStack
> 
> The problem I have is that when working on lots of objects 
> using the geometry manager they occasionally go haywire with 
> no way to go back.  
> With this handler I can hold down the shift key and resize 
> the stack with some chance of getting hold of the objects - 
> however the revCacheGeometry does not seem to fix things - if 
> I manually move an object it mostly works.
> 
> Any tips?
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Oct 30 15:45:56 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 20:45:56 +0000
Subject: Dumb question about RunRev Documentation
In-Reply-To: <178925A0-B9DB-4F9D-9EB6-53B4A90E666F@mac.com>
References: <20051030120156.28D1982509E@mail.runrev.com>
	<178925A0-B9DB-4F9D-9EB6-53B4A90E666F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <43653104.7010208@tweedly.net>

Roger Guay wrote:

> Alex,
>
> AudioClip doesn't offer to expand to messages on my copy of 2.6.1.   
> What version are you using?  If I'm correct, is there yet another way  
> to get to the messages in version 2.6.1??
>
2.6.1 build 152

Each of the objects expands to further choices
   + all
   + message
   + property

Either "all" or "message" gives the message info.


This shouldn't be build-specific - works the same for me in 2.5, 2.6 and 
2.6.1
(I only just deleted 2.5.1 so I can't try that one :-)

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 28/10/2005



From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Sun Oct 30 16:35:35 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 21:35:35 +0000
Subject: Dumb question about RunRev Documentation
In-Reply-To: <178925A0-B9DB-4F9D-9EB6-53B4A90E666F@mac.com>
References: <20051030120156.28D1982509E@mail.runrev.com>
	<178925A0-B9DB-4F9D-9EB6-53B4A90E666F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <8A415E87-420E-4DE4-8574-B1986A136E4E@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 30 Oct 2005, at 16:37, Roger Guay wrote:

> Alex,
>
> AudioClip doesn't offer to expand to messages on my copy of 2.6.1.   
> What version are you using?  If I'm correct, is there yet another  
> way to get to the messages in version 2.6.1??
>
> Cheers, Roger
>

Be sure you don't have anything typed in the search box. This will  
filter out stuff, and the audio clip entry may not show as expandable.

Dave


From mdswindell at charter.net  Sun Oct 30 16:46:01 2005
From: mdswindell at charter.net (Mark Swindell)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 13:46:01 -0800
Subject: Getting generic OSX icon in standalone
In-Reply-To: <85CEAAA8-3D1E-4AB0-A4AC-7DE516484CB8@wanadoo.fr>
References: <85CEAAA8-3D1E-4AB0-A4AC-7DE516484CB8@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <375C16D6-3998-4AE1-B51D-E7A0AD32A108@charter.net>


On Oct 30, 2005, at 10:55 AM, graham samuel wrote:

>>
>> I can't help, sorry, but I have met with a lot of frustration around
>> the whole icon experience myself.  This is an area where a Rev-based
>> Icon App would be very appreciated. The standalone builder icon
>> scheme hasn't worked properly for me.
>>
>> Bring the icons into the app, point them at the standalone(s), click
>> "Assign Icons,"  and have it be so.
>>
>>
>
> Sorry Mark, I can't understand what you're saying - how can I  
> 'bring the icons into the app'? And where and in what app is there  
> an "Assign Icons" button? Looks like a great idea if only I could  
> follow what you're saying.
>
> Dumbly
>
> Graham


Graham,

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear.  There is no such app.  I was wishing  
there were, and trying to define the ease of use I'd like to see in  
such a program.

An IconAssign application, created in Rev, that would allow the user  
to design an icon in whatever icon design program worked best for him  
or her. IconAssign would ask what icon file to import.  If the icon  
files were incorrect or incomplete, it would tell you how they were  
incorrect or incomplete and explain what you'd need to do to fix them.

If all was well, it would ask which Standalone to assign the icon  
to.  You would choose the standalone, click on an "Assign Icon"  
button, and then it would do just that... place the icon correctly  
into the standalone.  It would know what to give a Windows, OS X, Mac  
Classic, Linux standalone to make the icon display correctly in those  
environments.  All done in Revolution.  All eliminating the need for  
the Rev developer to learn the intricacies of icon building for each  
platform he or she wanted to deploy to.

Wishfully thinking,
Mark

From troy at rpsystems.net  Sun Oct 30 18:55:50 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:55:50 -0500
Subject: Problem with editable field -
In-Reply-To: <1EDE4C30-3259-4319-8ADA-FD98519A0B44@free.fr>
References: <20051030120155.D42F482509B@mail.runrev.com>
	<1EDE4C30-3259-4319-8ADA-FD98519A0B44@free.fr>
Message-ID: <5de7ab7b648412afe5cb1002e60f33d8@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 30, 2005, at 9:16 AM, Christian Brossier wrote:

>
>> No, you just need to keep your data in a stack which is not a 
>> substack of the application.
>
> I do not agree : you save as necessary in the scripts of the substack 
> and, in the menu item "Standalone Application Settings ...", window 
> "Stacks", you have just to check "Move substacks into individual 
> stackfiles".

I don't really see a difference there. To each their own. The point is, 
the data stack can't be distributed within the standalone executable.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From jhurley at infostations.com  Sun Oct 30 19:05:18 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 17:05:18 -0700
Subject: ANN: Simple Pendulum Simulation
In-Reply-To: <20051030120156.28D1982509E@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051030120156.28D1982509E@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230906bf8b0b592373@[69.85.158.83]>

>
>A simple simulation of a simple pendulum . . .
>
>
>                                  revOnlin -> User Spaces -> RogerG or 
>Education.
>
>
>Cheers, Roger
>

Roger,

Nice job! Good interface.

If you have the inclination, you might want to tackle the large 
amplitude pendulum. There is no nice analytic solution but you could 
numerically integrate the equation of motion. Something like this:

Let A represent the angle. Then you  would do a numerical integration with

repeat loop
   set the location of the pendulum to R,A --using radial coordinates
   add c *  sine(A) to the angular velocity -- where c depends on the 
mass, L and  g
   --The angular acceleration is proportional to  the torque which is 
proportional to sine(A)
   --For small amplitudes sine(A) = A, in radial coordinates
   add the angular velocity to A
end repeat loop

Where I have assumed the time interval between loops is one second, 
so that dt =1

It would be interesting to show how the period (determined by the 
number of loops between changes in sign of the angular velocity) 
depends on the amplitude. Show that the clock slows down as it runs 
down, i.e. the period decreases with decreasing amplitude--albeit 
slowly; it is a second order effect in the amplitude. That's why 
pendulum clocks work so well.

Jim




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Oct 30 20:55:35 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 17:55:35 -0800
Subject: ANN: FastMailBase demonstrates the power of Revolution!
In-Reply-To: <4FDD911F-2F85-4941-A75E-CD2837DCBC39@runrev.com>
References: <4FDD911F-2F85-4941-A75E-CD2837DCBC39@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <43657997.4020104@fourthworld.com>

Fr?d?ric RINALDI wrote:
>     ManyBases is proud to introduce FastMailBase, the first  
> professional emails archiver available on the market.
> 
>     FastMailBase purpose is to bring you an easy and elegant way of  
> archiving, retrieving and organizing all your emails, the power and  
> speed of SQL databases at your fingertips, in an easy and intuitive  
> user interface.
> 
>     Until now, people making intensive use of personal or  professional 
> emails exchanges had no other choice than simply keeping  them in their 
> mail application, by organizing them in folders and  subfolders. But 
> anyone dealing with more than 500 emails quickly felt  that mail 
> applications were not tailored for this use, and became  slower as 
> storage increased.
> 
>     FastMailBase brings the right solution for this, by providing  the 
> power and speed of lightning fast database right on your desktop,  
> dynamically linked with your mail application thru intensive  
> collaboration. So, you still will use your preferred mail client to  
> retrieve and answer to your emails, and FastMailBase will be there  for 
> the next steps.

Folks, I saw a sneak preview of this during Fr?d?ric's presentation at 
the Euro RevCon in Malta last year, and it was extremely cool!   I've 
been playing with the beta and will be working with the main product soon.

A great idea, well executed.
<http://www.manybases.com/>

Congratulations on the launch, Fr?d?ric.
If you have time to tell us a bit more about the development process 
(the good, the bad, the ugly, the unexpected process glitches, the 
trademark issue, etc.) we'd love to read about it at revJournal.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sun Oct 30 22:46:37 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:46:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <2F3C01A4-B55F-470D-A551-53E9B782DDBC@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0510301946060.19978-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Some of us are already there @;-)

Judy

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005, Dennis Brown wrote:

> Scott,
>
> Thank you for pointing that out to folks.
> I am signed up, anyone else joining us?



From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Oct 31 00:07:25 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 23:07:25 -0600
Subject: Problem with editable field -
In-Reply-To: <1EDE4C30-3259-4319-8ADA-FD98519A0B44@free.fr>
References: <20051030120155.D42F482509B@mail.runrev.com>
	<1EDE4C30-3259-4319-8ADA-FD98519A0B44@free.fr>
Message-ID: <4365A68D.7090600@chipp.com>

Hi Christian,

What the standalone builder does, is remove the substack from the stack, 
in effect making it a stack which as Troy correctly notes, is no longer 
a substack (sat that 5 times quickly;-))

Actually, I never use this 'feature' as I always embed some library 
substacks within the main stack. In fact, it's a feature introduced by 
the Rev IDE and I don't believe was available in previous MetaCard 
versions. Frankly, IMO, it ends up confusing people regarding stack 
architecture.

A good stack architecture white paper would be a good thing to see 
sometime. I believe Todd Geist has been asking about such a document for 
some time now.

best,
Chipp

Christian Brossier wrote:
> 
> Le 30 oct. 05 ? 13:01, Troy Rollins a ?crit :
> 
>> No, you just need to keep your data in a stack which is not a  
>> substack of the application.
> 
> 
> I do not agree : you save as necessary in the scripts of the substack  
> and, in the menu item "Standalone Application Settings ...", window  
> "Stacks", you have just to check "Move substacks into individual  
> stackfiles".



From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Mon Oct 31 05:43:53 2005
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (ron barber)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:43:53 +0900
Subject: Plain text or Unicodetext?
In-Reply-To: <7CB4B4D2-4951-11DA-A67B-0003936DB936@runrev.com>
References: <000101c5d6cf$4ca6c7a0$0201010a@proherp3t4vojr>
	<2876254395e13fac515dcea3d5191153@yhb.att.ne.jp>
	<7CB4B4D2-4951-11DA-A67B-0003936DB936@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <75babe29ae48c9f68908a512121a1a5b@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Hi Marcus,

Thanks for the suggestion. Kenji Kojima also replied to me privately 
with the same idea.

It seems to be an effective way of checking, even if it involves an 
extra step of putting the text into a fld first.

Thanks
Ron

On Oct 30, 2005, at 11:28 PM, Marcus van Houdt wrote:

> Hello,
>
> At present there is no way to directly check the encoding of the text 
> entered in a field, however, you can detect it indirectly by checking 
> the htmlText property of the field.
> If plain text is entered there will be no "lang" attribute present in 
> the "font" tag, however, if there is any unicode present in the field 
> there will be a lang attribute for the font tag present.
> You can try this out easily by typing a line of plain text in a field 
> and then typing a line of unicode text before doing "put the htmlText 
> of field "name you gave field" in the message box, you will notice 
> there is only a lang tag present for the unicode text.
>
> If you wish to determine whether text returned from a dialog is 
> unicode or plain text, you will need to check the htmlText property of 
> the field used in the dialog box to enter the text.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Marcus
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Is there a way to determine if the text returned from a dialog is 
>> ascii text or unicodedtext? I tried working with the chartonum, 
>> useunicode and baseconvert functions to no avail.
>>
>> I tried converting and comparing uniencoded versions with the 
>> original text and no go. I have tried what I know so I turn to the 
>> list.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Ron
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Mon Oct 31 05:48:29 2005
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (ron barber)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:48:29 +0900
Subject: Ask/answer dialog question
In-Reply-To: <7CB4B4D2-4951-11DA-A67B-0003936DB936@runrev.com>
References: <000101c5d6cf$4ca6c7a0$0201010a@proherp3t4vojr>
	<2876254395e13fac515dcea3d5191153@yhb.att.ne.jp>
	<7CB4B4D2-4951-11DA-A67B-0003936DB936@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <0c0e40852d4f2ab2ab84abe5b0c56215@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Hi,

The docs say that styled text is a possibility in ask and answer 
dialogs. I have tried

ask the htmltext of field "myfield" with "myFile"

but it shows the html encodings rather than the formatted text. I get 
the same thing with ask file and the answer dialogs. Is there a way to 
get styled text in the ask/answer wd without making my own windows?

Thanks
Ron



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Oct 31 05:54:50 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:54:50 +0100
Subject: Ask/answer dialog question
In-Reply-To: <0c0e40852d4f2ab2ab84abe5b0c56215@yhb.att.ne.jp>
References: <000101c5d6cf$4ca6c7a0$0201010a@proherp3t4vojr>
	<2876254395e13fac515dcea3d5191153@yhb.att.ne.jp>
	<7CB4B4D2-4951-11DA-A67B-0003936DB936@runrev.com>
	<0c0e40852d4f2ab2ab84abe5b0c56215@yhb.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <9493BA7C-4307-484C-A567-905D05ECBE38@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Rob,

Answer dialogs support styled text (html) but ask dialogs do not.
You might be interested in 2 tutorials:  "How to Display and Manage  
Ask Dialogs" and "How to Display and Manage Answer Dialogs" both  
available from Tutorials Picker.
Tutorials Picker is available from my website (Revolution > Plugins)  
or Rev Online (user: So Smart Software)

Best Regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.

Le 31 oct. 05 ? 11:48, ron barber a ?crit :

> Hi,
>
> The docs say that styled text is a possibility in ask and answer  
> dialogs. I have tried
>
> ask the htmltext of field "myfield" with "myFile"
>
> but it shows the html encodings rather than the formatted text. I  
> get the same thing with ask file and the answer dialogs. Is there a  
> way to get styled text in the ask/answer wd without making my own  
> windows?
>
> Thanks
> Ron

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Mon Oct 31 05:58:43 2005
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (ron barber)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:58:43 +0900
Subject: Ask/answer dialog question -docs
In-Reply-To: <9493BA7C-4307-484C-A567-905D05ECBE38@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <000101c5d6cf$4ca6c7a0$0201010a@proherp3t4vojr>
	<2876254395e13fac515dcea3d5191153@yhb.att.ne.jp>
	<7CB4B4D2-4951-11DA-A67B-0003936DB936@runrev.com>
	<0c0e40852d4f2ab2ab84abe5b0c56215@yhb.att.ne.jp>
	<9493BA7C-4307-484C-A567-905D05ECBE38@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <f7318cfe499d4cd1e29155defbfa4d63@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the response, I'll look at your tutorials but the docs for 
the ask dialog state:

"The ability to provide formatted text for the prompt was introduced in 
version 2.0."

so I was looking for the way to use that.

Thanks
Ron


On Oct 31, 2005, at 7:54 PM, Eric Chatonet wrote:

> Hi Rob,
>
> Answer dialogs support styled text (html) but ask dialogs do not.
> You might be interested in 2 tutorials:  "How to Display and Manage 
> Ask Dialogs" and "How to Display and Manage Answer Dialogs" both 
> available from Tutorials Picker.
> Tutorials Picker is available from my website (Revolution > Plugins) 
> or Rev Online (user: So Smart Software)
>
> Best Regards from Paris,
> Eric Chatonet.
>
> Le 31 oct. 05 ? 11:48, ron barber a ?crit :
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> The docs say that styled text is a possibility in ask and answer 
>> dialogs. I have tried
>>
>> ask the htmltext of field "myfield" with "myFile"
>>
>> but it shows the html encodings rather than the formatted text. I get 
>> the same thing with ask file and the answer dialogs. Is there a way 
>> to get styled text in the ask/answer wd without making my own 
>> windows?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Ron
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> So Smart Software
>
> For institutions, companies and associations
> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Oct 31 06:03:23 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:03:23 +0100
Subject: Ask/answer dialog question -docs
In-Reply-To: <f7318cfe499d4cd1e29155defbfa4d63@yhb.att.ne.jp>
References: <000101c5d6cf$4ca6c7a0$0201010a@proherp3t4vojr>
	<2876254395e13fac515dcea3d5191153@yhb.att.ne.jp>
	<7CB4B4D2-4951-11DA-A67B-0003936DB936@runrev.com>
	<0c0e40852d4f2ab2ab84abe5b0c56215@yhb.att.ne.jp>
	<9493BA7C-4307-484C-A567-905D05ECBE38@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<f7318cfe499d4cd1e29155defbfa4d63@yhb.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <E164858D-2CCF-40AF-BC2B-77E14ED8D5AC@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Ron,

You are right.
But it's an error in the docs:
Probably, a quick copy/paste from the answer entry ;-)

Le 31 oct. 05 ? 11:58, ron barber a ?crit :

> Hi Eric,
>
> Thanks for the response, I'll look at your tutorials but the docs  
> for the ask dialog state:
>
> "The ability to provide formatted text for the prompt was  
> introduced in version 2.0."
>
> so I was looking for the way to use that.
>
> Thanks
> Ron
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2005, at 7:54 PM, Eric Chatonet wrote:
>
>
>> Hi Rob,
>>
>> Answer dialogs support styled text (html) but ask dialogs do not.
>> You might be interested in 2 tutorials:  "How to Display and  
>> Manage Ask Dialogs" and "How to Display and Manage Answer Dialogs"  
>> both available from Tutorials Picker.
>> Tutorials Picker is available from my website (Revolution >  
>> Plugins) or Rev Online (user: So Smart Software)
>>
>> Best Regards from Paris,
>> Eric Chatonet.
>>
>> Le 31 oct. 05 ? 11:48, ron barber a ?crit :
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> The docs say that styled text is a possibility in ask and answer  
>>> dialogs. I have tried
>>>
>>> ask the htmltext of field "myfield" with "myFile"
>>>
>>> but it shows the html encodings rather than the formatted text. I  
>>> get the same thing with ask file and the answer dialogs. Is there  
>>> a way to get styled text in the ask/answer wd without making my  
>>> own windows?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Ron
>>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> So Smart Software
>>
>> For institutions, companies and associations
>> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
>> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>>
>> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
>> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
>> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
>> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Oct 31 06:19:43 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:19:43 +0100
Subject: Regex to remove all tags from a web page
Message-ID: <2CB5A7A5-6AB4-44AE-A1EF-ECD8FF133155@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi all,

I searched the list archive and the net for a regex that would allow  
to retrieve the meaningful text from any web page, stripping all html  
tags, extra code, etc. but I did not find something really  
convincing :-(
Any help would be much appreciated :-)

PS. I don't want to use "set the htmlText/get text" using a field:  
this way crashes Rev unpredictably when doing batch processing.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Oct 31 07:00:20 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:00:20 +0000
Subject: Regex to remove all tags from a web page
In-Reply-To: <2CB5A7A5-6AB4-44AE-A1EF-ECD8FF133155@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <2CB5A7A5-6AB4-44AE-A1EF-ECD8FF133155@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <43660754.8030101@tweedly.net>

Eric Chatonet wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I searched the list archive and the net for a regex that would allow  
> to retrieve the meaningful text from any web page, stripping all html  
> tags, extra code, etc. but I did not find something really  convincing 
> :-(
> Any help would be much appreciated :-)
>
> PS. I don't want to use "set the htmlText/get text" using a field:  
> this way crashes Rev unpredictably when doing batch processing.
>
I suspect this will be "not really convincing" :-)

Just removing tags should be

>     put  "<[^><]*>" into tRex
>    
>     put replacetext(fld "in", tRex, "") into fld "out"

That assumes the html has no "<" or ">" , and is generally well-formed.

That seems too simple - so it can't be convincing :-)


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 28/10/2005



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Oct 31 08:51:30 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:51:30 +0100
Subject: Regex to remove all tags from a web page
In-Reply-To: <43660754.8030101@tweedly.net>
References: <2CB5A7A5-6AB4-44AE-A1EF-ECD8FF133155@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<43660754.8030101@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <37954A83-7306-4F06-8D98-BD78609C343A@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Alex,

Thanks a lot.
That's a first good step since the out text is about 20/30% of the in  
text :-)
HTML tags are stripped but extra code (php,java, etc.) of course  
remains.
Any ideas for these ones?

Le 31 oct. 05 ? 13:00, Alex Tweedly a ?crit :

> Eric Chatonet wrote:
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I searched the list archive and the net for a regex that would  
>> allow  to retrieve the meaningful text from any web page,  
>> stripping all html  tags, extra code, etc. but I did not find  
>> something really  convincing :-(
>> Any help would be much appreciated :-)
>>
>> PS. I don't want to use "set the htmlText/get text" using a  
>> field:  this way crashes Rev unpredictably when doing batch  
>> processing.
>>
>>
> I suspect this will be "not really convincing" :-)
>
> Just removing tags should be
>
>>     put  "<[^><]*>" into tRex
>>     put replacetext(fld "in", tRex, "") into fld "out"
>
> That assumes the html has no "<" or ">" , and is generally well- 
> formed.
> That seems too simple - so it can't be convincing :-)
>
> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Oct 31 09:00:39 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:00:39 +0000
Subject: Regex to remove all tags from a web page
In-Reply-To: <37954A83-7306-4F06-8D98-BD78609C343A@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <2CB5A7A5-6AB4-44AE-A1EF-ECD8FF133155@sosmartsoftware.com>	<43660754.8030101@tweedly.net>
	<37954A83-7306-4F06-8D98-BD78609C343A@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <43662387.1040806@tweedly.net>

Eric Chatonet wrote:

> Hi Alex,
>
> Thanks a lot.
> That's a first good step since the out text is about 20/30% of the in  
> text :-)
> HTML tags are stripped but extra code (php,java, etc.) of course  
> remains.
> Any ideas for these ones?

In the samples I tried, it strips out php code  - it's all enclosed in 
<?php ..........>
That may be just the naive way I did the PHP, I only tried against my 
own code.

Can you send an example of what it doesn't do ?
(send it direct to me off-list if that's preferable)


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 28/10/2005



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Mon Oct 31 09:04:25 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:04:25 +0100
Subject: Regex to remove all tags from a web page
In-Reply-To: <2CB5A7A5-6AB4-44AE-A1EF-ECD8FF133155@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <OF770D32BF.FA8FBA45-ONC12570AB.004CD219-C12570AB.004D4ED7@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Alex

Since i've had crashes with regex with big files, and since it can't 
handle line breaks which
happen only too often within html code, i used offsets(). 

When i wrote the discreteBrowser, it was the ONLY reliable method to get 
the html tidy or
out... 

put 0 into a
repeat
  put offset("<", txt, a) into a
  if a < 1 then exit repeat
  put offset(">",txt,a+1) into b
  delete char a to b of txt
end repeat

or something like that. It's quick and infallible... 

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo


use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 31/10/2005 12:19:43:

> Hi all,
> 
> I searched the list archive and the net for a regex that would allow 
> to retrieve the meaningful text from any web page, stripping all html 
> tags, extra code, etc. but I did not find something really 
> convincing :-(
> Any help would be much appreciated :-)
> 
> PS. I don't want to use "set the htmlText/get text" using a field: 
> this way crashes Rev unpredictably when doing batch processing.
> 
> Best Regards from Paris,
> 
> Eric Chatonet.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> So Smart Software
> 
> For institutions, companies and associations
> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
> 
> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From AbilityForms at aol.com  Mon Oct 31 09:21:02 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:21:02 EST
Subject: Window Default Size
Message-ID: <df.1f9063dd.3097824e@aol.com>

Hi Everyone,

How do I change the default size of the inspector, error & script windows? 
I'm on Mac OSX.

Joe
Orlando, Florida


From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Oct 31 09:33:44 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:33:44 +0000
Subject: Regex to remove all tags from a web page
In-Reply-To: <OF770D32BF.FA8FBA45-ONC12570AB.004CD219-C12570AB.004D4ED7@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OF770D32BF.FA8FBA45-ONC12570AB.004CD219-C12570AB.004D4ED7@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <43662B48.4070406@tweedly.net>

xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:

>Hi Alex
>
>Since i've had crashes with regex with big files, and since it can't 
>handle line breaks which
>happen only too often within html code, i used offsets(). 
>
>  
>
I haven't seen any crashes with Regex - but of course that doesn't mean 
they can't happen :-)

But the regex I sent certainly does work with line breaks.

>When i wrote the discreteBrowser, it was the ONLY reliable method to get 
>the html tidy or
>out... 
>
>put 0 into a
>repeat
>  put offset("<", txt, a) into a
>  if a < 1 then exit repeat
>  put offset(">",txt,a+1) into b
>  delete char a to b of txt
>end repeat
>
>or something like that. It's quick and infallible... 
>
>  
>
Actually, it's not infallible. It would fail on Eric's code for the same 
reason my first try did. He has javascript code which can contain "<" or 
">", so the regex exits half-way through the "comment" that contains the 
javascript source code.

Easy to fix in your offset scheme (and probably easy to fix in regex as 
well, but I don't know how to do it yet).
Time to read some more about regex ...


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 28/10/2005



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Mon Oct 31 10:06:31 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:06:31 +0100
Subject: Regex to remove all tags from a web page
In-Reply-To: <43662B48.4070406@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <OFE3A1E793.EA189C94-ONC12570AB.0052DFCC-C12570AB.0052FE68@deutsche-boerse.com>

Alex


The trick i used in my discrete browser was to treat <scripts> and 
<styles> first.

String anything between those two tags and you're a lot safer. Eventually 
if you need those back, keep them out of the tag stripping operation and 
put them back after.

Then deal with the html structure...

cheers
Xavier


use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 31/10/2005 15:33:44:

> xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:
> 
> >Hi Alex
> >
> >Since i've had crashes with regex with big files, and since it can't 
> >handle line breaks which
> >happen only too often within html code, i used offsets(). 
> >
> > 
> >
> I haven't seen any crashes with Regex - but of course that doesn't mean 
> they can't happen :-)
> 
> But the regex I sent certainly does work with line breaks.
> 
> >When i wrote the discreteBrowser, it was the ONLY reliable method to 
get 
> >the html tidy or
> >out... 
> >
> >put 0 into a
> >repeat
> >  put offset("<", txt, a) into a
> >  if a < 1 then exit repeat
> >  put offset(">",txt,a+1) into b
> >  delete char a to b of txt
> >end repeat
> >
> >or something like that. It's quick and infallible... 
> >
> > 
> >
> Actually, it's not infallible. It would fail on Eric's code for the same 

> reason my first try did. He has javascript code which can contain "<" or 

> ">", so the regex exits half-way through the "comment" that contains the 

> javascript source code.
> 
> Easy to fix in your offset scheme (and probably easy to fix in regex as 
> well, but I don't know how to do it yet).
> Time to read some more about regex ...
> 
> 
> -- 
> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 
28/10/2005
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From selid at broadpark.no  Mon Oct 31 12:28:46 2005
From: selid at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jan_S=E6lid?=)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 18:28:46 +0100
Subject: Strang cursor behaviour after a drag event...
Message-ID: <001901c5de40$8cc2b150$0500000a@makabre>

Hi

I have two fields. In the first one I have placed an empty "On dragEnd" event because I don't want the user to change the field only drag.

In the second one I have an "Acceptdrop" event together with an "On dragDrop" event because I want to check the dragdata before I place it in the field.

Something like this:

In script of Field 1:

    On dragEnd
        -- nothing in here
    end dragEnd

In script of field 2:

    on dragEnter
       set the acceptDrop to true
    end dragEnter

    on dragDrop
       --- check the dragdata
       --- place it in the field if it is allowed
    end dragDrop


Now here is the strange behaviour:

After the text is dragged and placed into the second field. The cursor behaves in a reversed order. When entering a field the cursor becomes an arrow. 
When entering a button the cursor becomes an iBeam. The opposite of normal behaviour I would say. This happens only in the event of dragging from field 1 to field 2.
I have tried to create two new fields with no script in them. And dragging between these two do not make the same strange behaviour.

Have my computer got a fever? what is happening?


J.S


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Oct 31 12:36:03 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 18:36:03 +0100
Subject: Strang cursor behaviour after a drag event...
In-Reply-To: <001901c5de40$8cc2b150$0500000a@makabre>
References: <001901c5de40$8cc2b150$0500000a@makabre>
Message-ID: <B17B2DCC-E5E5-42B3-8C61-8ED6F92CD215@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Jan,

This happens sometimes in the IDE.
Try to add a handler like the following into an appropriate object  
(field, card, etc. depending if you lock the cursor by yourself  
elsewhere):

on mouseMove
   unlock cursor
end mouseMove

Hope this helps.
Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 31 oct. 05 ? 18:28, Jan S?lid a ?crit :

> Hi
>
> I have two fields. In the first one I have placed an empty "On  
> dragEnd" event because I don't want the user to change the field  
> only drag.
>
> In the second one I have an "Acceptdrop" event together with an "On  
> dragDrop" event because I want to check the dragdata before I place  
> it in the field.
>
> Something like this:
>
> In script of Field 1:
>
>     On dragEnd
>         -- nothing in here
>     end dragEnd
>
> In script of field 2:
>
>     on dragEnter
>        set the acceptDrop to true
>     end dragEnter
>
>     on dragDrop
>        --- check the dragdata
>        --- place it in the field if it is allowed
>     end dragDrop
>
>
> Now here is the strange behaviour:
>
> After the text is dragged and placed into the second field. The  
> cursor behaves in a reversed order. When entering a field the  
> cursor becomes an arrow.
> When entering a button the cursor becomes an iBeam. The opposite of  
> normal behaviour I would say. This happens only in the event of  
> dragging from field 1 to field 2.
> I have tried to create two new fields with no script in them. And  
> dragging between these two do not make the same strange behaviour.
>
> Have my computer got a fever? what is happening?

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From selid at broadpark.no  Mon Oct 31 12:45:30 2005
From: selid at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jan_S=E6lid?=)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 18:45:30 +0100
Subject: Strang cursor behaviour after a drag event...
References: <001901c5de40$8cc2b150$0500000a@makabre>
	<B17B2DCC-E5E5-42B3-8C61-8ED6F92CD215@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <003701c5de42$e335aa40$0500000a@makabre>

Great

Thanks Eric

Problem solved.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Eric Chatonet" <eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: Strang cursor behaviour after a drag event...


Hi Jan,

This happens sometimes in the IDE.
Try to add a handler like the following into an appropriate object
(field, card, etc. depending if you lock the cursor by yourself
elsewhere):

on mouseMove
   unlock cursor
end mouseMove

Hope this helps.
Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 31 oct. 05 ? 18:28, Jan S?lid a ?crit :

> Hi
>
> I have two fields. In the first one I have placed an empty "On  dragEnd" 
> event because I don't want the user to change the field  only drag.
>
> In the second one I have an "Acceptdrop" event together with an "On 
> dragDrop" event because I want to check the dragdata before I place  it in 
> the field.
>
> Something like this:
>
> In script of Field 1:
>
>     On dragEnd
>         -- nothing in here
>     end dragEnd
>
> In script of field 2:
>
>     on dragEnter
>        set the acceptDrop to true
>     end dragEnter
>
>     on dragDrop
>        --- check the dragdata
>        --- place it in the field if it is allowed
>     end dragDrop
>
>
> Now here is the strange behaviour:
>
> After the text is dragged and placed into the second field. The  cursor 
> behaves in a reversed order. When entering a field the  cursor becomes an 
> arrow.
> When entering a button the cursor becomes an iBeam. The opposite of 
> normal behaviour I would say. This happens only in the event of  dragging 
> from field 1 to field 2.
> I have tried to create two new fields with no script in them. And 
> dragging between these two do not make the same strange behaviour.
>
> Have my computer got a fever? what is happening?

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
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Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution 



From kevin at runrev.com  Mon Oct 31 12:51:18 2005
From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:51:18 +0000
Subject: ANN: new free altPlugin: altMenuStack
In-Reply-To: <4362D8BB.1040507@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <BF8C0A16.23461%kevin@runrev.com>

On 29/10/05 3:04 am, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:

>> Yes, it's a fact you can't debug stacks with 'rev' in the name prefix
>> anymore using the Rev IDE.
> 
> I just made a stack called "revtest.rev" with a test handler in the card
> script. I could set a breakpoint and the debugger caught it. I could
> step through the code. Maybe the problem is fixed?

You have to put true into gREVDevelopment to enable the development
environment debugging features.  This only works in 2.6.1.  We do not
support this mode, so use at your own risk.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Oct 31 13:01:13 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:01:13 +0100
Subject: ANN: new free altPlugin: altMenuStack
In-Reply-To: <BF8C0A16.23461%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20051031172624.101D0824F20@mail.runrev.com>

Kevin,

Welcome back to the resourceful people's monstrous mailist you created!

We miss you and your invaluable tips! More Rev insights we need! ;)

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Kevin Miller
> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 6:51 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: ANN: new free altPlugin: altMenuStack
> 
> On 29/10/05 3:04 am, "J. Landman Gay" 
> <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:
> 
> >> Yes, it's a fact you can't debug stacks with 'rev' in the 
> name prefix 
> >> anymore using the Rev IDE.
> > 
> > I just made a stack called "revtest.rev" with a test handler in the 
> > card script. I could set a breakpoint and the debugger caught it. I 
> > could step through the code. Maybe the problem is fixed?
> 
> You have to put true into gREVDevelopment to enable the 
> development environment debugging features.  This only works 
> in 2.6.1.  We do not support this mode, so use at your own risk.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Kevin
> 
> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/ 
> Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Oct 31 13:02:33 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:02:33 +0100
Subject: ANN: new free altPlugin: altMenuStack
In-Reply-To: <BF8C0A16.23461%kevin@runrev.com>
References: <BF8C0A16.23461%kevin@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BDC0C1A8-F8AB-4508-8744-D3706C4E68AE@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Kevin,

All of us who develop plugins and utilities for the Rev IDE will gain  
much time with this new feature.
You did it since you needed it. We needed it too :-)
Thanks.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 31 oct. 05 ? 18:51, Kevin Miller a ?crit :

> On 29/10/05 3:04 am, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com>  
> wrote:
>
>
>>> Yes, it's a fact you can't debug stacks with 'rev' in the name  
>>> prefix
>>> anymore using the Rev IDE.
>>>
>>
>> I just made a stack called "revtest.rev" with a test handler in  
>> the card
>> script. I could set a breakpoint and the debugger caught it. I could
>> step through the code. Maybe the problem is fixed?
>>
>
> You have to put true into gREVDevelopment to enable the development
> environment debugging features.  This only works in 2.6.1.  We do not
> support this mode, so use at your own risk.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
> Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From irog at mac.com  Mon Oct 31 13:16:33 2005
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:16:33 -0800
Subject: ANN: Simple Pendulum Simulation
In-Reply-To: <20051031103256.95799825011@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051031103256.95799825011@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <F4E85E8B-0C77-430E-A405-695A3F989F8B@mac.com>

Thanks, Jim.  I do indeed have this inclination.  In fact my original  
intent was to use the simple pendulum to learn and apply the Runge- 
Kutta Method.  I just haven't gotten around to it yet.  Might your  
suggestion be a variation of this?

Cheers, Roger


On Oct 31, 2005, at 2:32 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com  
wrote:

> If you have the inclination, you might want to tackle the large
> amplitude pendulum. There is no nice analytic solution but you could
> numerically integrate the equation of motion. Something like this:
>
> Let A represent the angle. Then you  would do a numerical  
> integration with
>
> repeat loop
>    set the location of the pendulum to R,A --using radial coordinates
>    add c *  sine(A) to the angular velocity -- where c depends on the
> mass, L and  g
>    --The angular acceleration is proportional to  the torque which is
> proportional to sine(A)
>    --For small amplitudes sine(A) = A, in radial coordinates
>    add the angular velocity to A
> end repeat loop
>
> Where I have assumed the time interval between loops is one second,
> so that dt =1
>
> It would be interesting to show how the period (determined by the
> number of loops between changes in sign of the angular velocity)
> depends on the amplitude. Show that the clock slows down as it runs
> down, i.e. the period decreases with decreasing amplitude--albeit
> slowly; it is a second order effect in the amplitude. That's why
> pendulum clocks work so well.
>
> Jim



From wdesmet at wanadoo.nl  Mon Oct 31 16:52:02 2005
From: wdesmet at wanadoo.nl (William de Smet)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 22:52:02 +0100
Subject: Problem with editable field -
Message-ID: <59BF93B9-A6D9-44C5-819D-EFB5F67EEF3D@wanadoo.nl>

Thanks for the advice Troy,

I've made a new data stack and linked it to the mainstack.
After creating the standalone application it still works and that's  
what I needed.
However now I've got two visible files under Windows: one .exe file  
and one .rev file.
Mac OSX just shows one file.

Chipp embeds his library substacks but he problably doesn't need to  
update and save, like I do.
After reading the suggestions I believe there is no way to put it all  
in one file, is there?
How can I make the distribution under WIndows more friendly. Do I  
need to make or use an installer?
Until now I distributed a single .exe file.

Any suggestions?

William de Smet





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Oct 31 16:59:28 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:59:28 -0600
Subject: Scripting conference stack  uploaded - debugging
Message-ID: <436693C0.6010807@hyperactivesw.com>

The scripting conference stack on Debugging is now available for 
download at:

<http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences/>

Due to a scheduling conflict, we did not have a chat for this session, 
so the stack is final as uploaded (that is, no log will be added.) This 
is a wonderfully presented overview of the debugger by Jerry Daniels. If 
you have ever heard Jerry present in public you will recognize his 
humorous style immediately. If you have never heard him in person, you 
are in for a treat. Who would imagine that a definition of the "trace" 
command could be so amusing? If you've been afraid to investigate the 
debugger so far, download and fear no more.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Oct 31 17:24:35 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:24:35 -0600
Subject: Problem with editable field -
In-Reply-To: <59BF93B9-A6D9-44C5-819D-EFB5F67EEF3D@wanadoo.nl>
References: <59BF93B9-A6D9-44C5-819D-EFB5F67EEF3D@wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <436699A3.6040106@chipp.com>



William de Smet wrote:

> Chipp embeds his library substacks but he problably doesn't need to  
> update and save, like I do.

I save data either in binary files (stacks) or xml/text files. I 
typically let the user choose where to save the file in the typical 
document/application framework.

> After reading the suggestions I believe there is no way to put it all  
> in one file, is there?

If you use a splashscreen stack (search this list for splashscreen), you 
can have your mainstack downloaded from the web and editable-- though I 
don't recommend ever saving data with interface.

> How can I make the distribution under WIndows more friendly. Do I  need 
> to make or use an installer?

Check out Monte's InstallGadget at www.sweattechnologies.com

It's super simple.



From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Oct 31 19:18:13 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:18:13 -0500
Subject: Problem with editable field -
In-Reply-To: <59BF93B9-A6D9-44C5-819D-EFB5F67EEF3D@wanadoo.nl>
References: <59BF93B9-A6D9-44C5-819D-EFB5F67EEF3D@wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <33e4115bbc4d985659713e432b3dfb38@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 31, 2005, at 4:52 PM, William de Smet wrote:

> Chipp embeds his library substacks but he problably doesn't need to 
> update and save, like I do.
> After reading the suggestions I believe there is no way to put it all 
> in one file, is there?
> How can I make the distribution under WIndows more friendly. Do I need 
> to make or use an installer?
> Until now I distributed a single .exe file.

Hi,

No, there really is no way to have a single file, which is an 
executable, and still save the data. You'll need to save it somewhere. 
Often, this can be stored in a preferences file in one of the "special 
folders."

Chipp's suggestion's are also good ones. In my own projects, I usually 
have a resource folder alongside my executable, and place any required 
data stacks within it. If it is something where they might want to 
share files, then using standard "get file" dialogs are useful to 
determine where the user might want to save things.

Finally, if distribution simplicity is the key, consider this... simply 
have a template substack that is contained within your main stack. When 
the main stack is run, check for the existence of your data stack, if 
it doesn't yet exist, have your executable create it from the template. 
This lets you have the single file distribution, but a savable data 
stack after the user runs the app.


--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From j.tangen at unsw.edu.au  Mon Oct 31 19:22:27 2005
From: j.tangen at unsw.edu.au (Jason Tangen)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 11:22:27 +1100
Subject: counting runs
Message-ID: <EE1433BA-3CA1-4C1E-83AF-7AA022F5B439@unsw.edu.au>

Hello,

I'm trying to solve a seemingly simple problem and I could use some  
help. A coin flip will come out "Heads" or "Tails" and will produce,  
for example, the following series for 20 flips:

T,T,H,T,T,H,H,H,T,T,H,T,H,H,H,T,H,T,H,T

I need to count up the number events for a particular run.  For example,

Heads x 3 = 2
Heads x 2 = 0
Heads x 1 = 4
Tails x 1 = 4
Tails x 2 = 3
Tails x 3 = 0

I need to account for runs up to 60 (rather than 3 above) for  
hundreds of flips (rather than 20 above).

I've been using a very clumsy multiple if-then solution to date, but  
this quickly becomes difficult with many runs.

Can someone point me in the right direction?

Cheers,
Jason


From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Oct 31 19:46:58 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 00:46:58 +0000
Subject: counting runs
In-Reply-To: <EE1433BA-3CA1-4C1E-83AF-7AA022F5B439@unsw.edu.au>
References: <EE1433BA-3CA1-4C1E-83AF-7AA022F5B439@unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <4366BB02.8010403@tweedly.net>

Jason Tangen wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm trying to solve a seemingly simple problem and I could use some  
> help. A coin flip will come out "Heads" or "Tails" and will produce,  
> for example, the following series for 20 flips:
>
> T,T,H,T,T,H,H,H,T,T,H,T,H,H,H,T,H,T,H,T
>
> I need to count up the number events for a particular run.  For example,
>
> Heads x 3 = 2
> Heads x 2 = 0
> Heads x 1 = 4
> Tails x 1 = 4
> Tails x 2 = 3
> Tails x 3 = 0
>
> I need to account for runs up to 60 (rather than 3 above) for  
> hundreds of flips (rather than 20 above).
>
> I've been using a very clumsy multiple if-then solution to date, but  
> this quickly becomes difficult with many runs.
>
> Can someone point me in the right direction?


something like

>     local myVar, MyData, MyArray, I, tRunLen, tRunType
>    
>     put fld "Field" into MyData
>     put 0 into tRunLen
>     put "" into tRunType
>     
>     repeat for each item I in myData
>         if I <> tRunType then
>             if tRunType <> "" then
>                 add 1 to MyArray[tRunType, tRunLen]
>             end if
>             put I into tRunType
>             put 1 into tRunLen
>         else
>             add 1 to tRunLen
>         end if
>     end repeat
>     if tRunLen > 0 then
>         add 1 to MyArray[tRunType, tRunLen]
>     end if
>     
>     put the keys of MyArray into temp
>     sort temp
>     put temp into msg


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 28/10/2005



From monte at sweattechnologies.com  Mon Oct 31 19:54:40 2005
From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 11:24:40 +1030
Subject: Date conversions in summer time
References: <EE1433BA-3CA1-4C1E-83AF-7AA022F5B439@unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <004701c5de7e$d775bbf0$0502a8c0@fred>

Hi

Just wondering if anyone else has seen date conversions adding an extra hour 
each time you convert?

Cheers

--

Monte Goulding                                      BCompSci
Sweat Technologies                      BAppSci (Hons)

InstallGadget - How to create an installer in 10 seconds
Download now from: http://www.sweattechnologies.com/InstallGadget 



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 31 20:04:54 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:04:54 -0800
Subject: Regex to remove all tags from a web page
In-Reply-To: <OFE3A1E793.EA189C94-ONC12570AB.0052DFCC-C12570AB.0052FE68@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <BF8BFF36.2FD99%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Eric Chatonet wrote:
>
> I searched the list archive and the net for a regex that would allow
> to retrieve the meaningful text from any web page, stripping all html
> tags, extra code, etc. but I did not find something really  convincing
> :-(
> Any help would be much appreciated :-)

I have cast a few 'data mining' scripts with regex, but tailor them for more
than just removing tags.  Are you also trying to format strings (text,
paragraphs) or data (tables, labeled values)?

Specifics are important.  One example is that a page of accounting data that
has been working great for 3.5 months, now has a glitch since the authors
changed the web page format.

tip: Check to see if </HTML> is in the text, which means that the download
was complete, whenever it occurred.
top: Convert all returns to "MMMM" so that now there is only one line
between ^ and $ (since returns mean nothing in html, why deal with empties
and multiple empties?)

One step you should try to incorporate is a 'back check'... does the result
have enough/too many characters, does it contain "<" or ">", are key words
present/absent.

tip: Replacing some tags with a tab char means that you can copy/paste the
block into a spreadsheet and see where the columns are and excess to be
trimmed.

Send a page or two my way and I will see if something I have conjured will
work for you.  I'll just toss it in my caldron and see what bubbles to the
top. </Halloween ref>

Jim Ault
Las Vegas






From lynn at paradigmasoft.com  Mon Oct 31 20:10:27 2005
From: lynn at paradigmasoft.com (Lynn Fredricks)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:10:27 -0800
Subject: Valentina Office Server 2.1  Announced
Message-ID: <1081315063-222411371@lindbergh.macserve.net>

Valentina Office Server 2.1 Announced

NEW BUSINESS READY DATABASE SERVER GAINS PHP WEB SCRIPTING, INDUSTRY
STANDARD INTERFACES

October 31, 2005. Beaverton, Oregon.  Paradigma Software, Inc announces
Valentina 2.1 Office Server, a major update to the company's fast and robust
database server.

Valentina 2.1 Office Server will add a special client module for interfacing
with the PHP scripting language. This Valentina PHP client module includes
the following features:

PHP 4+ Scripting Support. Valentina 2.1 will have a PHP interface that is
closely modeled after industry standard PHP APIs, allowing users of other
database servers to rapidly port their PHP applications as easily as doing a
find/replace with a VAL_ prefix. This will allow easy porting from mySQL
AB's mySQL.

PEAR API Support. Inclusion of a PEAR compatible class. PEAR is a structured
code library, set of packaging standards and extension module broadly
accepted for interfacing PHP and databases.

AdoDB Support. A data abstraction layer used by database solution providers
to interface with a broad range of enterprise class database servers and
technologies.

Valentina 2.1 Office Server incorporates the incredibly fast and robust
Valentina 2 database engine. Other features include fast abstraction links,
Unicode UTF-16 native format, Valentina XML import/export data and schema,
SQL '92, simultaneous data exchange with read-only media, record level locks
and 448 bit encryption.

Office Server includes developer client modules for accessing server data
from applications made with popular development tools on Windows and
Macintosh, including Runtime Revolution's Revolution rapid application
development tool. Runtime Revolution provides a fast and productive
environment to build front ends for Valentina Office Server based solutions.

Each copy of Valentina 2 Office Server includes a copy of Valentina Studio
Admin Edition, the database management tool.

Valentina 2 Office Server pricing begins at $299 (with substantial discounts
to Valentina Developer Network members) and is available on Windows and
MacOS X.

For more information, visit  the Paradigma Software at
http://www.paradigmasoft.com or its authorized European distributors.

About Paradigma Software, Inc

Founded in 1998, Beaverton, Oregon-based Paradigma Software, Inc is the
leading provider of incredibly fast and robust database solutions for
business and development. Valentina 2 technology powers solutions as diverse
as graphics applications from major Japanese electronics companies to
solutions supporting US public schools. Paradigma Software solutions are
available for every major development environment on the Windows and
Macintosh platforms.

For additional information, visit the Paradigma Software website at
http://www.paradigmasoft.com.

Contact

Paradigma Software
Ph. (503) 574-2776
http://www.paradigmasoft.com




From jhurley at infostations.com  Mon Oct 31 20:24:29 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:24:29 -0800
Subject: ANN: Simple Pendulum Simulation
In-Reply-To: <20051031180004.47378824FC6@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051031180004.47378824FC6@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230906bf8c6ff18d12@[69.85.158.98]>

>
>Thanks, Jim.  I do indeed have this inclination.  In fact my original 
>intent was to use the simple pendulum to learn and apply the Runge-
>Kutta Method.  I just haven't gotten around to it yet.  Might your 
>suggestion be a variation of this?
>
>Cheers, Roger
>


Roger,

Actually I was thinking of something even simpler than the 
Runge-Kutta approximation.

Using the Euler approximation, the repeat loop to generate the 
pendulum motion is really simple and looks like this:

repeat until the mouseClick
     setRA r,270+psi -- Polar coordinates; 270 so that the pendulum hands DOWN
     add -c*psi to angVel --Add angular acceleration to the angular velocity
     add angVel to psi --Add angular velocity to the angle
end repeat

where psi is the angular displacement of the pendulum.

I am using Turtle Graphics, but I think you get the idea. To see this 
in action, put this in the message box:

go stack url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/ControlGraphics.rev"

and go to the last card.

Control graphics is a variation on TG. It allows you to identify any 
control as a Turtle which not only responds to Transcript, but also 
to TG. So you can create a circle graphic and call it "pendulum" and 
then talk to the circle like it was a turtle, i.e. forward 10, right 
90, setXY 20,30, setRA 200,35 etc.

Polar coordinates are particularly  useful in the pendulum problem

I tried to show the dependence of the period on the amplitude but no 
luck so far. Maybe Runga-Kutta is required.

The period depends on the amplitude (to second order in the 
amplitude) in this way:

T = T(0) (1 + A^2/16)

where A is the angular amplitude in radians.

Jim

From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Oct 31 20:24:56 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:24:56 -0600
Subject: Valentina Office Server 2.1  Announced
In-Reply-To: <1081315063-222411371@lindbergh.macserve.net>
References: <1081315063-222411371@lindbergh.macserve.net>
Message-ID: <4366C3E8.7030403@chipp.com>

Congratulations on the new announced product! It looks like a winner. :-)

-Chipp

Lynn Fredricks wrote:
> Valentina Office Server 2.1 Announced
> 
> NEW BUSINESS READY DATABASE SERVER GAINS PHP WEB SCRIPTING, INDUSTRY
> STANDARD INTERFACES
> 
> October 31, 2005. Beaverton, Oregon.  Paradigma Software, Inc announces
> Valentina 2.1 Office Server, a major update to the company's fast and robust
> database server.
> 
> Valentina 2.1 Office Server will add a special client module for interfacing
> with the PHP scripting language. This Valentina PHP client module includes
> the following features:
> 
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> code library, set of packaging standards and extension module broadly
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> 
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From nicolas_cueto at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 31 20:26:46 2005
From: nicolas_cueto at yahoo.com (N Cueto)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:26:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: counting runs
In-Reply-To: <EE1433BA-3CA1-4C1E-83AF-7AA022F5B439@unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <20051101012646.87221.qmail@web60613.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,

Below is my suggestion. It allows the
number of flips and coin sides to be
varied, and can tally events of un-
limited length.

Cheers,
Nicolas Cueto


on mouseUp
  
  -- PREP THE VARIABLES
  put 100 into tNumberOfFlips
  put "HT" into tCoin
  put the number of characters in tCoin into tRandSeed
  put empty into tThePreviousToss
  put empty into tTheRun
  put empty into tTheSeries
  
  -- START FLIPPING THE COIN
  repeat with i = 1 to tNumberOfFlips
    put char (random(tRandSeed)) of tCoin into tTheCurrentToss
    if tTheCurrentToss <> tThePreviousToss then 
      -- THE RUN IS BROKEN
      put tTheRun & cr after tTheSeries
      put tTheCurrentToss into tTheRun
    else 
      -- THE RUN CONTINUES
      put tTheCurrentToss after tTheRun
    end if
    put tTheCurrentToss into tThePreviousToss
  end repeat
  delete the last char of tTheSeries
  sort lines of tTheSeries
  delete line 1 of tTheSeries
  
  -- COUNT THE NUMBER OF EVENTS FOR EACH PARTICULAR RUN
  put empty into tThePreviousLine
  put 1 into tEventCount
  put empty into tFinalEventCounts
  repeat for each line tTheCurrentLine in tTheSeries
    if tTheCurrentLine <> tThePreviousLine then
      -- A NEW EVENT
      put "Event count for run-type " & tThePreviousLine & \
          ": " & tEventCount & cr after tFinalEventCounts
      put 1 into tEventCount
    else
      -- THE PREVIOUS EVENT CONTINUES
      add 1 to tEventCount
    end if
    put tTheCurrentLine into tThePreviousLine
  end repeat
  delete line 1 of tFinalEventCounts
  put tFinalEventCounts into field "fResult"

end mouseUp


From mark at maseurope.net  Mon Oct 31 20:29:56 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 01:29:56 +0000
Subject: counting runs
In-Reply-To: <EE1433BA-3CA1-4C1E-83AF-7AA022F5B439@unsw.edu.au>
References: <EE1433BA-3CA1-4C1E-83AF-7AA022F5B439@unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <46D96275-2F76-4655-ABA7-0B37810419F4@maseurope.net>

This should also work:



on mouseUp
   repeat 10000
     put  any item of "H,T" after flipList -- just to generate a  
sample list
   end repeat

   put flipList into headsList -- make a copy to work on
   replace "T" with cr in headsList -- split runs of heads into lines
   filter headsList without empty -- get rid of empty lines
   repeat for each line L in headsList
     add 1 to resArray["Heads",length(L)]
   end repeat


   --do same for tails
   put flipList into tailsList -- make a copy to work on
   replace "H" with cr in tailsList
   filter tailsList without empty
   repeat for each line L in tailsList
     add 1 to resArray["Tails",length(L)]
   end repeat


   put the keys of resArray into kList
   sort lines of kList numeric by item 2 of each
   repeat for each line L in kList
     put L into desc
     replace comma with "x" in desc
     put desc && resArray[L] & cr after rList
   end repeat
   put rList
end mouseUp

if the Hs & Ts are separated by commas to start with, just 'replace  
comma with empty in flipList'.



Mark

On 1 Nov 2005, at 00:22, Jason Tangen wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm trying to solve a seemingly simple problem and I could use some  
> help. A coin flip will come out "Heads" or "Tails" and will  
> produce, for example, the following series for 20 flips:
>
> T,T,H,T,T,H,H,H,T,T,H,T,H,H,H,T,H,T,H,T
>
> I need to count up the number events for a particular run.  For  
> example,
>
> Heads x 3 = 2
> Heads x 2 = 0
> Heads x 1 = 4
> Tails x 1 = 4
> Tails x 2 = 3
> Tails x 3 = 0
>
> I need to account for runs up to 60 (rather than 3 above) for  
> hundreds of flips (rather than 20 above).
>
> I've been using a very clumsy multiple if-then solution to date,  
> but this quickly becomes difficult with many runs.
>
> Can someone point me in the right direction?
>
> Cheers,
> Jason
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From dick.kriesel at mail.com  Mon Oct 31 21:09:12 2005
From: dick.kriesel at mail.com (Dick Kriesel)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 18:09:12 -0800
Subject: counting runs
In-Reply-To: <EE1433BA-3CA1-4C1E-83AF-7AA022F5B439@unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <BF8C0E48.1474B%dick.kriesel@mail.com>

On 10/31/05 4:22 PM, "Jason Tangen" <j.tangen at unsw.edu.au> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I'm trying to solve a seemingly simple problem and I could use some
> help. A coin flip will come out "Heads" or "Tails" and will produce,
> for example, the following series for 20 flips:
> 
> T,T,H,T,T,H,H,H,T,T,H,T,H,H,H,T,H,T,H,T
> 
> I need to count up the number events for a particular run.  For example,
> 
> Heads x 3 = 2
> Heads x 2 = 0
> Heads x 1 = 4
> Tails x 1 = 4
> Tails x 2 = 3
> Tails x 3 = 0
> 
> I need to account for runs up to 60 (rather than 3 above) for
> hundreds of flips (rather than 20 above).
> 
> I've been using a very clumsy multiple if-then solution to date, but
> this quickly becomes difficult with many runs.
> 
> Can someone point me in the right direction?
> 
> Cheers,
> Jason

Here's yet another solution.  At the core, it uses an array like Alex's
solution, but with slightly fewer instructions.  So all it really adds to
suggestions already posted is a technique for reporting results as the
original example suggests: runs of heads first sorted by descending run
length, followed by runs of tails sorted by ascending run length, with no
run lengths missing.

-- Dick



post script:

local sArray,sChar,sCount,sMax

on mouseUp
  ask "enter a comma-delimited sequence of H's and T's" \
      with "T,T,H,T,T,H,H,H,T,T,H,T,H,H,H,T,H,T,H,T"
  recordFlips it
  putResults
end mouseUp

on recordFlips pSequence
  put "" into sArray
  put char 1 of pSequence into sChar
  put 0 into sCount
  put 0 into sMax
  repeat for each item tChar in pSequence
    recordFlip tChar
  end repeat
  add 1 to sArray[sChar,sCount]
end recordFlips

on recordFlip pChar
  if pChar = sChar then
    add 1 to sCount
    if sCount > sMax then
      put sCount into sMax
    end if
  else
    add 1 to sArray[sChar,sCount]
    put pChar into sChar
    put 1 into sCount
  end if
end recordFlip

on putResults
  -- note: fill in any missing runs
  put the keys of sArray into tKeys
  repeat with i = 1 to sMax
    if sArray["H",i] is empty then put 0 into sArray["H",i]
    if sArray["T",i] is empty then put 0 into sArray["T",i]
  end repeat
  -- note: sort runs of heads descending, then runs of tails ascending
  put the keys of sArray into tKeys
  sort tKeys numeric descending by sortKey(each)
  -- note: put the results
  put ""
  repeat for each line tKey in tKeys
    put item 1 of tKey && "x" && item 2 of tKey & ":" && sArray[tKey] & cr
after msg
  end repeat
end putResults

function sortKey pKey
  if item 1 of pKey is "H" then put item 2 of pKey into tSortKey
  else put 0 - item 2 of pKey into tSortKey
  return tSortKey
end sortKey




From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Mon Oct 31 23:28:50 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 05:28:50 +0100
Subject: AW: counting runs
In-Reply-To: <EE1433BA-3CA1-4C1E-83AF-7AA022F5B439@unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCMECHDLAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hi Jason,

if you just want to count the occurrences of H and T in strings like
> T,T,H,T,T,H,H,H,T,T,H,T,H,H,H,T,H,T,H,T
the easiest (and most likely fastest, unchecked though) way might be to do something like

  put  "T,T,H,T,T,H,H,H,T,T,H,T,H,H,H,T,H,T,H,T" & comma into myString
  put the number of items in myString into totalCount
  replace "T," with "" in myString
  put the number of items in myString into headCount
  put totalCount - headCount into tailCount
  answer "total: " & totalCount & return & \
      "Heads: " & headCount & return &  \
      "Tails: " & tailCount
 
All the best
Thomas


--
Thomas Fischer
Salzburg 

> -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]Im Auftrag von Jason
> Tangen
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 1. November 2005 01:22
> An: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Betreff: counting runs
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm trying to solve a seemingly simple problem and I could use some  
> help. A coin flip will come out "Heads" or "Tails" and will produce,  
> for example, the following series for 20 flips:
> 
> T,T,H,T,T,H,H,H,T,T,H,T,H,H,H,T,H,T,H,T
> 
> I need to count up the number events for a particular run.  For example,
> 
> Heads x 3 = 2
> Heads x 2 = 0
> Heads x 1 = 4
> Tails x 1 = 4
> Tails x 2 = 3
> Tails x 3 = 0
> 
> I need to account for runs up to 60 (rather than 3 above) for  
> hundreds of flips (rather than 20 above).
> 
> I've been using a very clumsy multiple if-then solution to date, but  
> this quickly becomes difficult with many runs.
> 
> Can someone point me in the right direction?
> 
> Cheers,
> Jason
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From todd at geistinteractive.com  Wed Oct 26 17:00:40 2005
From: todd at geistinteractive.com (Todd Geist)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:00:40 -0700
Subject: Help Docs -> Rev Stacks
Message-ID: <BF853C88.3A0C9%todd@geistinteractive.com>

Hello,


Has anybody done anything with importing the HTML Help files that OSX uses
into Rev stacks?.

I would love to be able to annotate the docs for some applications that I
use all the time. Possible create my own UI's to them with favorite's,
bookmarks etc.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Todd


-- 

Todd Geist
______________________________________
g e i s t   i n t e r a c t i v e 




From agarzia at mac.com  Mon Oct 31 16:00:36 2005
From: agarzia at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:00:36 -0200
Subject: question: how much info fits in a field?
Message-ID: <44F082B7-E46A-4239-A0A4-651773C93CBB@mac.com>

Folks,

I am using a field to record TCP Flow on a given port on my system by  
redirecting tcpflow app using appleEvents which makes much easier to  
debug CGI apps since all traffic is inside a nice field, the problem  
is, how much info can I dump into a field, I am loggin all traffic,  
so after couple hours browsing, I might have tons of megs, so what is  
the maximum ammount a field can handle before I need to dump the log  
to a file?

Cheers
andre