From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Tue Nov  1 01:11:13 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 16:11:13 +1000
Subject: Date conversions in summer time
In-Reply-To: <004701c5de7e$d775bbf0$0502a8c0@fred>
References: <EE1433BA-3CA1-4C1E-83AF-7AA022F5B439@unsw.edu.au>
	<004701c5de7e$d775bbf0$0502a8c0@fred>
Message-ID: <f99b52860510312211x1b61807dy7bb8437755a95b29@mail.gmail.com>

> Just wondering if anyone else has seen date conversions adding an extra hour
> each time you convert?
>

What version of Revolution are you using Monte? I thought this one had
been fixed in 2.6?
If you need a convert that works with earlier versions, I have a
function that checks & allows for this bug if necessary. Just let me
know if you need it.

Cheers,
Sarah


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Nov  1 02:30:47 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 08:30:47 +0100
Subject: RevCursor and RevVariableWatcher fixes
Message-ID: <20051101065552.E12D7824F46@mail.runrev.com>

Hi everyone

Tired with the design of the revVariableWatcher (VW), went in and fixed the
problems of this stacks including the bugzillas I posted for them. Took
exactly 10 minutes! 

Fixes include:
- Position of the splitters (awful, inpractical - always requiring a manual
fix when you open VW)
- Scrolling of the 3 fields not synchronized or wouldn't work with
scrollwheel (the 2 rightmost fields mostly)
- The cursors' hotspot position which in windows is at 1,1 instead of 10,10
(the same with other cursors). This is not an issue on Macs it seems...

These were the most annoying so there you go.

The two stacks involved are the 

../revolution/components/global environment/revcursors.rev
../revolution/components/global environment/revvariablewatcher.rev

You can download both at

http://monsieurx.com/hyper/rev/revcursors.rev (82KBs)
http://monsieurx.com/hyper/rev/revvariablewatcher.rev (12KBs)

Just replace them in your installation folder in their respective folders
(might be a good idea to make a backup of these stacks before replacing
them).

Hoping it makes your rev work more pleasant...

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  1 03:06:14 2005
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 00:06:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Problem with editable field -
In-Reply-To: <59BF93B9-A6D9-44C5-819D-EFB5F67EEF3D@wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <20051101080614.25956.qmail@web60519.mail.yahoo.com>

--- William de Smet <wdesmet at wanadoo.nl> wrote:
> Thanks for the advice Troy,
> 
> I've made a new data stack and linked it to the
> mainstack.
> After creating the standalone application it still
> works and that's  
> what I needed.
> However now I've got two visible files under
> Windows: one .exe file  
> and one .rev file.
> Mac OSX just shows one file.
> 
> Chipp embeds his library substacks but he problably
> doesn't need to  
> update and save, like I do.
> After reading the suggestions I believe there is no
> way to put it all  
> in one file, is there?
> How can I make the distribution under WIndows more
> friendly. Do I  
> need to make or use an installer?
> Until now I distributed a single .exe file.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> William de Smet
> 

Hi William,

You've already received a suggestion to include a
'template' stack in your standalone, and to save that
as a separate stack on the user's hard drive -- on
startup, you check if the file exists; if so, you open
it; if not, you work with the template substack.

To this scenario, I'd like to add the suggestion of
saving the stack to the user's Application Data
directory on Windows (or Home directory on Unix-based
machines).
See the Transcript Dictionary for a detailed overview
of the 'specialFolderPath' function.
Be sure to check out Ken Ray's research of this
function on his excellent Revolution developer
resources site, at:
<http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/file010.htm>

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  1 03:09:03 2005
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 00:09:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ARGH! 2.6.1 keeps crashing
In-Reply-To: <7348a9e80510290033t7c4e8058ld778e81e9f7af921@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051101080903.26124.qmail@web60519.mail.yahoo.com>

--- TJ Frame <tjframe at gmail.com> wrote:
> Since I uninstalled 2.6 and replaced it with 2.6.1 I
> keep getting random
> crashes.
>   It's usually in the script editor, but not always.
> There seems to be no
> ryhme or reason for the crashes in the sense that
> I'm not doing the same
> thing each time. The app just instantly vanishes -
> no lockups or anything -
> it's just gone. If I check the Task Manger, the app
> is gone from there too.
> Usally when an app crashes at least it will say "not
> responding" or
> something in the TM.
>  Anyway, I'm using Win 200 and this thing is
> happening about once per hour,
> which is really starting to annoy me. 2.6 hardly
> ever crashed on me.
>  Anyone else finding 2.6.1 unstable for them as
> well? I'm tempted to go back
> to 2.6 at this point
>  - TJ
> 

Hi TJ,

So far, I've only encountered a single crash with Rev
2.6.1 on my Win2K portable -- when I used the 'Undo'
shortcut in the Script Editor, Rev was closed with an
'illegal read' error.
But I haven't been able to reproduce it; maybe if
others chime in with similar experiences, we can find
a pattern.

Best regards,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Nov  1 03:15:57 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 09:15:57 +0100
Subject: RevCursor and RevVariableWatcher fixes
In-Reply-To: <20051101065552.E12D7824F46@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20051101074056.A4AFB825040@mail.runrev.com>

Oh yes...

I just added a fix so now you can watch your globals in non-debugging mode
Fixed the array display splitter position
Removed the lines that shouldn't be there in the scrollbardrag statements of
the array display fields.
Improved the looks of the horizontal lines (was also missing the array
fields). 

That was a bit more involved. 

The next release will also differentiate locals from globals and offer the
possibility to edit those keys or their values, add or remove keys. 

So there you have it... a newer and better and improved RevVariableWatcher
done in 30 minutes. 

It's hard to believe that Rev didn't have half an hour to spend on this
little stack to make its quality finished. Something I communicated long ago
to rev and to which I posted the bugzillas (takes less time to fix their
stuff than post the bugzilla in this point of view). 

These features I had in my Script Editor X for MC 2.5 three years ago... 

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of MisterX
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 8:31 AM
> To: 'How to use Revolution'
> Subject: RevCursor and RevVariableWatcher fixes
> 
> Hi everyone
> 
> Tired with the design of the revVariableWatcher (VW), went in 
> and fixed the problems of this stacks including the bugzillas 
> I posted for them. Took exactly 10 minutes! 
> 
> Fixes include:
> - Position of the splitters (awful, inpractical - always 
> requiring a manual fix when you open VW)
> - Scrolling of the 3 fields not synchronized or wouldn't work 
> with scrollwheel (the 2 rightmost fields mostly)
> - The cursors' hotspot position which in windows is at 1,1 
> instead of 10,10 (the same with other cursors). This is not 
> an issue on Macs it seems...
> 
> These were the most annoying so there you go.
> 
> The two stacks involved are the 
> 
> ../revolution/components/global environment/revcursors.rev 
> ../revolution/components/global environment/revvariablewatcher.rev
> 
> You can download both at
> 
> http://monsieurx.com/hyper/rev/revcursors.rev (82KBs) 
> http://monsieurx.com/hyper/rev/revvariablewatcher.rev (12KBs)
> 
> Just replace them in your installation folder in their 
> respective folders (might be a good idea to make a backup of 
> these stacks before replacing them).
> 
> Hoping it makes your rev work more pleasant...
> 
> cheers
> Xavier
> http://monsieurx.com/taoo
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Nov  1 04:04:59 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 10:04:59 +0100
Subject: ARGH! 2.6.1 keeps crashing
In-Reply-To: <20051101080903.26124.qmail@web60519.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20051101082959.274BB824ECB@mail.runrev.com>

Jan

The script editor may have many faults including the undo which can't undo a
return insertion! But I haven't experienced a single crash with it. 

Any plugins that you are using that could cause this?

I don?t use any and even with the TAOO architecture and events on top I
don?t
experience any crashes in the script editor...

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Jan Schenkel
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 9:09 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: ARGH! 2.6.1 keeps crashing
> 
> --- TJ Frame <tjframe at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Since I uninstalled 2.6 and replaced it with 2.6.1 I keep getting 
> > random crashes.
> >   It's usually in the script editor, but not always.
> > There seems to be no
> > ryhme or reason for the crashes in the sense that I'm not doing the 
> > same thing each time. The app just instantly vanishes - no 
> lockups or 
> > anything - it's just gone. If I check the Task Manger, the 
> app is gone 
> > from there too.
> > Usally when an app crashes at least it will say "not responding" or 
> > something in the TM.
> >  Anyway, I'm using Win 200 and this thing is happening 
> about once per 
> > hour, which is really starting to annoy me. 2.6 hardly ever 
> crashed on 
> > me.
> >  Anyone else finding 2.6.1 unstable for them as well? I'm 
> tempted to 
> > go back to 2.6 at this point
> >  - TJ
> > 
> 
> Hi TJ,
> 
> So far, I've only encountered a single crash with Rev
> 2.6.1 on my Win2K portable -- when I used the 'Undo'
> shortcut in the Script Editor, Rev was closed with an 
> 'illegal read' error.
> But I haven't been able to reproduce it; maybe if others 
> chime in with similar experiences, we can find a pattern.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Jan Schenkel.
> 
> Quartam - Tools for Revolution
> <http://www.quartam.com>
> 
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the 
> same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)
> 
> 
> 		
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  1 04:12:40 2005
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 01:12:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ARGH! 2.6.1 keeps crashing
In-Reply-To: <20051101082959.274BB824ECB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20051101091240.85281.qmail@web60515.mail.yahoo.com>

--- MisterX <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:
> Jan
> 
> The script editor may have many faults including the
> undo which can't undo a
> return insertion! But I haven't experienced a single
> crash with it. 
> 
> Any plugins that you are using that could cause
> this?
> 
> I don?t use any and even with the TAOO architecture
> and events on top I
> don?t
> experience any crashes in the script editor...
> 
> cheers
> Xavier
> 

Hi Xavier,

I was only running the altPlugin collection at the
time -- but none of these Transcript-based libraries
should cause an 'illegal read' exception at OS level.

Like I said, I wasn't able to reproduce it, and have
been running fine since that single crash, so I'm not
sure of the cause (menu shortcuts? undo stack?).

Of course, if I ever find a reproducible error, I'll
bugzilla it -- and given Rev's stability, that's a big
'IF'.

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From revolution at derbrill.de  Tue Nov  1 05:11:17 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 11:11:17 +0100
Subject: [Ann] ArcadeEngine 1.5 released
In-Reply-To: <20051101073528.96D4F82503E@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <D773BB8A-4ABF-11DA-A25F-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Hi all,

We're delighted to bring you an update to the popular and easy to use 
Arcade Engine, by DerBrill Software.
-------------- next part --------------

Arcade Engine incorporates sophisticated, scripted path management 
graphics and effects handling to meet the needs of 2D game designers 
and interactive animation developers.

As well as a list of new features, the interface has been beautifully 
reworked and documentation and tutorials updated. This is a must have 
plugin for Revolution if you are doing any kind of position or movement 
management. If you're writing a game, let ArcadeEngine do the heavy 
lifting, so you can concentrate on what really matters.

Existing Arcade Engine purchasers receive this update absolutely free! 
Just download the stack and start using it. You don?t even have to 
re-enter your registration code. :-) If you are not sure if 
ArcadeEngine is for you you can try it out in 15 sessions. Just 
download ArcadeEngine 1.5 and type

start using stack "arcadeengine"

  into the messagebox and your trial session starts.

If you want to see a little demo of what?s possible, please visit

<http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine>

and download the brand new demo application for Windows, Mac Os X or 
Linux there. Direct download links are available here (They are too 
long to post on the list without getting broken):

<http://derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30>


Here's what users have to say about Arcade Engine:

"The demo alone hooked me on the powerful and time-saving scripting 
possibilities that AE allows. And later practice with AE proved this 
initial impression 100%. But, what I wasn't expecting and am very 
grateful for was the quick and very detailed support AE's creator, 
Malte Brill, provided me throughout all the development stages of my 
AE-based game."

"ArcadeEngine is a real time saver. I like the geometric functions like 
findAngle and pointOnCircle most, as I deal a lot with geometric 
figures and ArcadeEngine saves me from math hell"

ArcadeEngine is available exclusively through our patners Runtime 
Revolution.

Special offer:
To celebrate the update, Runtime Revolution is giving away copies of 
Arcade Engine FREE with new Studio purchases of Revolution any renewal 
of Revolution Studio or upgrade from DreamCard to Revolution Studio. . 
But hurry, this is a time limited offer, it will be available for TWO 
WEEKS ONLY! To receive your free copy of Arcade engine enter the code 
MFARC14 in the coupon code box at the foot of the checkout screen of 
Runtime Revolutions online store when purchasing Revolution.

All the best,

Malte Brill

---
ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes
http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine
http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum 

From phefti at club-internet.fr  Tue Nov  1 05:22:43 2005
From: phefti at club-internet.fr (Pascal)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 11:22:43 +0100
Subject: clone card command
Message-ID: <70f5424765514cc050c86b7ed4b1ca0e@club-internet.fr>

Hello,

Trying to make my first stack...

I want to create a new card that is  nearly the same as the one I am 
in, so I use the "clone this card" command in the script of a button.
The difference is that I want that two of the fields of the new card  
are now empty.


In my trial and errors I wrote the following script to the button
"on mouseup
	clone this card
	select text of field "citation"
	delete selected text
	select text of field "commentaire"
	delete selected text
end mouseup

And I obtained an error. I corrected the script the following way
"on mouseup
	clone this card
	select text of field "citation"
	delete
	select text of field "commentaire"
	delete
end mouseup

Seems to me it should work.

But it is not, a strange phenomenom occurs :  when I click the button 
with the second version the card is cloned but the script in the button 
of the new card is the first version, although it is the second version 
in the departure card.

Any explanation ?

I'm using Rev2.6.1 trial version on a 10.3.9X eMAc.

Oh by the way Rev keeps crashing with regularity so I have to use the 
"Forcer ? quitter" (dont know the english version suppose "force to 
quit") item of the apple menu.

Pascal




From Cubist at aol.com  Tue Nov  1 05:28:00 2005
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 05:28:00 EST
Subject: counting runs
Message-ID: <a0.3354405b.30989d30@aol.com>

sez j.tangen at unsw.edu.au:
>I'm trying to solve a seemingly simple problem and I could use some  
>help. A coin flip will come out "Heads" or "Tails" and will produce,  
>for example, the following series for 20 flips:
>
>T,T,H,T,T,H,H,H,T,T,H,T,H,H,H,T,H,T,H,T
>
>I need to count up the number events for a particular run.  For example,
>
>Heads x 3 = 2
>Heads x 2 = 0
>Heads x 1 = 4
>Tails x 1 = 4
>Tails x 2 = 3
>Tails x 3 = 0
>
>I need to account for runs up to 60 (rather than 3 above) for  
>hundreds of flips (rather than 20 above).
   Presuming the data is indeed a string of Ts and Hs, separated by commas, 
something like this might do what you want...

local LongestRun = 60 # this value can be dialed up or down as desired

function FindRuns TheFlips
  # TheFlips must be a comma-delimited series of Ts and Hs!
  # if TheFlips is anything else, God knows what this handler will do to it

  put TheFlips into DerTempT
  put TheFlips into DetTempH

  put "T" into RunsT
  put "H" into RunsH
  repeat
    put RunsT into item (1 + the number of items in RunsT) of RunsT
    put RunsH into item (1 + the number of items in RunsH) of RunsH
    if (the number of items in RunsT => LongestRun) then exit repeat
  end repeat
  put ("," & (item 1 to LongestRun of RunsT) & ",") into RunsT
  put ("," & (item 1 to LongestRun of RunsH) & ",") into RunsH

  put true into TsLeft
  put true into HsLeft

  put "Record of Ts" into RezultT
  put "Record of Hs" into RezultH

  repeat with K1 = LongestRun down to 1 # or however many
    # first, let's see if we need to worry about any further runs
    put (offset ("T",DerTempT) > 0) into TsLeft
    put (offset ("H",DerTempH) > 0) into HsLeft

    if TsLeft then
      # we still have some Ts
      if offset (RunsT,DerTempT) > 0 then
        # hey, we got at least one run of this particular length!
        put the length of DerTempT into DerLength
        replace RunsT with "," in DerTempT
        # RunsT is a string of length (2n+1), where n is the number of Ts in 
it.
        # if we replace all instances of RunsT with single commas, that 
shortens
        # DerTempT by (2n) characters per instance that got replaced. 
therefore...
        put (DerLength - the length of DerTempT) div (2 * K1) into NumOfRuns
      else # nope, no more Ts left, hence no runs of however-many Ts
        put 0 into NumOfRuns
      end if
      put ("Heads x" & K1 && "=" && NumOfRuns) & return before RezultT
    end if

    # now do to the Hs what we did to the Ts
    if HsLeft then
      if offset (RunsH,DerTempH) > 0 then
        put the length of DerTempH into DerLength
        replace RunsH with "," in DerTempH
        put (DerLength - the length of DerTempH) div (2 * K1) into NumOfRuns
      else
        put 0 into NumOfRuns
      end if
      put ("Tails x" & K1 && "=" && NumOfRuns) & return before RezultH
    end if

    # now adjust RunsT and RunsH for the next time around the repeat loop
    delete char 1 to 2 of RunsT
    delete char 1 to 2 of RunsH
  end repeat

  # clean up RezultT and RezultH -- nuke the crap in the final line of each
  delete line -1 of RezultT
  delete line -1 of RezultH

  return RezultT & return & "=======" & return & RezultH
end FindRuns

   Hope this helps...


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Nov  1 05:39:26 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 11:39:26 +0100
Subject: clone card command
In-Reply-To: <70f5424765514cc050c86b7ed4b1ca0e@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <20051101100425.94CCA825094@mail.runrev.com>

Salut Pascal

If you group your card's elements (select them and click on "group" in the
menu bar, set the group to background behavior, you just need to type Create
Card to make a new Card with the same elements as the first (make sure you
start with a stack with only one card or you might have cards that do not
have the background "placed" into them (see the revdocs for the place
command). 

If it's new cards with different backgrounds you want to reproduce... then
try this script instead...

on mouseup
 clone this card
  
put empty into field "citation"
 put empty into field "commentaire"
end mouseup

you don?t need to select and delete, just put empty into the fields. Then it
works...

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 11:23 AM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: clone card command
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Trying to make my first stack...
> 
> I want to create a new card that is  nearly the same as the 
> one I am in, so I use the "clone this card" command in the 
> script of a button.
> The difference is that I want that two of the fields of the 
> new card are now empty.
> 
> 
> In my trial and errors I wrote the following script to the 
> button "on mouseup
> 	clone this card
> 	select text of field "citation"
> 	delete selected text
> 	select text of field "commentaire"
> 	delete selected text
> end mouseup
> 
> And I obtained an error. I corrected the script the following 
> way "on mouseup
> 	clone this card
> 	select text of field "citation"
> 	delete
> 	select text of field "commentaire"
> 	delete
> end mouseup
> 
> Seems to me it should work.
> 
> But it is not, a strange phenomenom occurs :  when I click 
> the button with the second version the card is cloned but the 
> script in the button of the new card is the first version, 
> although it is the second version in the departure card.
> 
> Any explanation ?
> 
> I'm using Rev2.6.1 trial version on a 10.3.9X eMAc.
> 
> Oh by the way Rev keeps crashing with regularity so I have to 
> use the "Forcer ? quitter" (dont know the english version 
> suppose "force to
> quit") item of the apple menu.
> 
> Pascal
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  1 05:36:53 2005
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 02:36:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: clone card command
In-Reply-To: <70f5424765514cc050c86b7ed4b1ca0e@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <20051101103653.976.qmail@web60515.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Pascal <phefti at club-internet.fr> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Trying to make my first stack...
> 
> I want to create a new card that is  nearly the same
> as the one I am 
> in, so I use the "clone this card" command in the
> script of a button.
> The difference is that I want that two of the fields
> of the new card  
> are now empty.
> 
> 
> In my trial and errors I wrote the following script
> to the button
> "on mouseup
> 	clone this card
> 	select text of field "citation"
> 	delete selected text
> 	select text of field "commentaire"
> 	delete selected text
> end mouseup
> 
> And I obtained an error. I corrected the script the
> following way
> "on mouseup
> 	clone this card
> 	select text of field "citation"
> 	delete
> 	select text of field "commentaire"
> 	delete
> end mouseup
> 
> Seems to me it should work.
> 
> But it is not, a strange phenomenom occurs :  when I
> click the button 
> with the second version the card is cloned but the
> script in the button 
> of the new card is the first version, although it is
> the second version 
> in the departure card.
> 
> Any explanation ?
> 
> I'm using Rev2.6.1 trial version on a 10.3.9X eMAc.
> 
> Oh by the way Rev keeps crashing with regularity so
> I have to use the 
> "Forcer ? quitter" (dont know the english version
> suppose "force to 
> quit") item of the apple menu.
> 
> Pascal
> 

Hi Pascal,

To empty a field, you don't have to select the
contents and delete them: just use:
--
  put empty into field "foobar"
--

If you're trying to make a stack with multiple cards
that have the same basic controls but where the
content of the fields is different on each card, you
should check into background groups.

Basically, you select all the controls that you want
to share, and group them (menu 'Object' > item 'Group
Selected') -- then open the 'Inspector' palette and
tick the checkbox 'Behave like a background'.

Now, when you create a new card from any card with
that background group on it, Rev will automagically
place this background group onto your new card.

Then have a look at your fields. If the 'sharedText'
property is true, then the same text will be displayed
on each card with that background.
If the same property is false, then the text of the
field differs depending on the current card. You can
control this property via the checkbox 'Share text' in
the 'Basic' panel of the 'Inspector' palette.

Labels and list fields will have the sharedText
property set to true by default, other fields will
have the sharedText property set to false by default.

As for the weird phenomenon and the frequent cra&shes,
I'm not sure what to answer you.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  1 05:40:59 2005
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 02:40:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Ann] ArcadeEngine 1.5 released
In-Reply-To: <D773BB8A-4ABF-11DA-A25F-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <20051101104059.97214.qmail@web60520.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Malte Brill <revolution at derbrill.de> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> We're delighted to bring you an update to the
> popular and easy to use 
> Arcade Engine, by DerBrill Software.
> 

Woo, congrats Malte !

If only I had the talent to make nice graphics and
program games, I'd grab it in an instant.
Right now I can barely do stick figures, and get a
throbbing headache trying to produce an Arkanoid game
for my Java course.

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Nov  1 05:52:33 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 11:52:33 +0100
Subject: RevCursor and RevVariableWatcher fixes
Message-ID: <20051101101752.D65DF8250B7@mail.runrev.com>

I said

> It's hard to believe that Rev didn't have half an hour to 
> spend on this little stack to make its quality finished. 
> Something I communicated long ago to rev and to which I 
> posted the bugzillas (takes less time to fix their stuff than 
> post the bugzilla in this point of view). 

sorry for the rant... 

My position is that since we use the script editor and it's associated tools
lots, they should be the most perfect part of rev. As it is on
"windows" it's far from perfect. 

I know rev works on fixes a lot but they do not seem to take the windows
platform seriously and it shows. If they used the windows platform to
develop their GUI, im sure they would be confronted to lots of bugzillas mac
users never see. 

Likewise, when their pc-made developments would be ported to XP or OSX, they
would see that "cross-platform" is a very loose word in rev. This has been
discussed in length before when stacks cross platforms and don?t show at all
as you expected.

Not having a Mac to test this (other than an old 8500 that only runs MacOS9)
I rely on the user's comments to see how my applications fare in their
screens. 

I see Rev is doing something like that. Waiting for the PC users to fall on
these issues, report them to bugzilla and hopefully have time resources to
fix them. There's priorities we know but what rev doesn't see is the time
users "waste" on annoying things like the splitters in the revVW each time
we call it to check on things... Over the long term these Issues are an
amazing loss of time and concentration. Multiplied by the number of users
and occurences, im sure this hour I spent on this improvements and telling
you about it is well worth the effort. 

I took also care of filling in the bugzillas with the news, urls and
informing the right person about it. 

See no rant just a good thing! ;)

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: MisterX [mailto:b.xavier at internet.lu] 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 9:16 AM
> To: 'How to use Revolution'
> Subject: RE: RevCursor and RevVariableWatcher fixes
> 
> Oh yes...
> 
> I just added a fix so now you can watch your globals in 
> non-debugging mode Fixed the array display splitter position 
> Removed the lines that shouldn't be there in the 
> scrollbardrag statements of the array display fields.
> Improved the looks of the horizontal lines (was also missing 
> the array fields). 
> 
> That was a bit more involved. 
> 
> The next release will also differentiate locals from globals 
> and offer the possibility to edit those keys or their values, 
> add or remove keys. 
> 
> So there you have it... a newer and better and improved 
> RevVariableWatcher done in 30 minutes. 
> 
> It's hard to believe that Rev didn't have half an hour to 
> spend on this little stack to make its quality finished. 
> Something I communicated long ago to rev and to which I 
> posted the bugzillas (takes less time to fix their stuff than 
> post the bugzilla in this point of view). 
> 
> These features I had in my Script Editor X for MC 2.5 three 
> years ago... 
> 
> cheers
> Xavier
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf 
> Of MisterX
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 8:31 AM
> > To: 'How to use Revolution'
> > Subject: RevCursor and RevVariableWatcher fixes
> > 
> > Hi everyone
> > 
> > Tired with the design of the revVariableWatcher (VW), went in and 
> > fixed the problems of this stacks including the bugzillas I 
> posted for 
> > them. Took exactly 10 minutes!
> > 
> > Fixes include:
> > - Position of the splitters (awful, inpractical - always 
> requiring a 
> > manual fix when you open VW)
> > - Scrolling of the 3 fields not synchronized or wouldn't work with 
> > scrollwheel (the 2 rightmost fields mostly)
> > - The cursors' hotspot position which in windows is at 1,1 
> instead of 
> > 10,10 (the same with other cursors). This is not an issue 
> on Macs it 
> > seems...
> > 
> > These were the most annoying so there you go.
> > 
> > The two stacks involved are the
> > 
> > ../revolution/components/global environment/revcursors.rev 
> > ../revolution/components/global environment/revvariablewatcher.rev
> > 
> > You can download both at
> > 
> > http://monsieurx.com/hyper/rev/revcursors.rev (82KBs) 
> > http://monsieurx.com/hyper/rev/revvariablewatcher.rev (12KBs)
> > 
> > Just replace them in your installation folder in their respective 
> > folders (might be a good idea to make a backup of these 
> stacks before 
> > replacing them).
> > 
> > Hoping it makes your rev work more pleasant...
> > 
> > cheers
> > Xavier
> > http://monsieurx.com/taoo
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From phefti at club-internet.fr  Tue Nov  1 05:53:16 2005
From: phefti at club-internet.fr (Pascal)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 11:53:16 +0100
Subject: clone card command
In-Reply-To: <20051101103653.976.qmail@web60515.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051101103653.976.qmail@web60515.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <507ad2d4b75344a1cf5ca08195e22908@club-internet.fr>


I supposed there was other ways to do what I wanted and thanks for the 
hints that will save me time.

Still puzzled with crashes...

Pascal


>>
>
> Hi Pascal,
>
> To empty a field, you don't have to select the
> contents and delete them: just use:
> --
>   put empty into field "foobar"
> --
>
> If you're trying to make a stack with multiple cards
> that have the same basic controls but where the
> content of the fields is different on each card, you
> should check into background groups.
>
> Basically, you select all the controls that you want
> to share, and group them (menu 'Object' > item 'Group
> Selected') -- then open the 'Inspector' palette and
> tick the checkbox 'Behave like a background'.
>
> Now, when you create a new card from any card with
> that background group on it, Rev will automagically
> place this background group onto your new card.
>
> Then have a look at your fields. If the 'sharedText'
> property is true, then the same text will be displayed
> on each card with that background.
> If the same property is false, then the text of the
> field differs depending on the current card. You can
> control this property via the checkbox 'Share text' in
> the 'Basic' panel of the 'Inspector' palette.
>
> Labels and list fields will have the sharedText
> property set to true by default, other fields will
> have the sharedText property set to false by default.
>
> As for the weird phenomenon and the frequent cra&shes,
> I'm not sure what to answer you.
>
> Hope this helped,
>
> Jan Schenkel.
>
> Quartam - Tools for Revolution
> <http://www.quartam.com>
>
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same 
> time."  (La Rochefoucauld)
>
>
> 		
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Nov  1 05:53:03 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 11:53:03 +0100
Subject: Revdocs on a wiki
In-Reply-To: <43627E2B.80801@chipp.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>	<EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>	<43612449.5090908@chipp.com>	<5E58C3A2-BF6F-4A7D-B419-892DAC5BFFB6@hindu.org>	<4361622A.90702@chipp.com>
	<6AE5AEE9-527B-4E52-8ABB-BC60F3114380@major-k.de>
	<43627E2B.80801@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <AA993014-E61A-4B43-A504-24F3E3A1209B@major-k.de>

Hi Chipp,

> Hmmm.
> If it wasn't you, then who? Ah, Pierre Sahores.
> Hmmm. German and French. You think I'd be able to keep that straight.

Don't worry, we all know you are just an american...
:-D

> Sorry. Anyway, Klaus, interested in porting HTMLDOC to Mac / Linux?

I am sorry, but i do not have the time in the moment.

> LOL

;-)

> Chipp
>
> Klaus Major wrote:
>
>> Hi Chipp,
>>
>>> Sivakatirswami,
>>> ...
>>> But that link is very interesting. In fact I've got a complete  
>>> GUI  written around the openSource version of HTMLDOC. Currently  
>>> it only  works on Windows, but I seem to remember handing off the  
>>> Mac/Linux  port to Klaus?
>> To Mr. Major? No, not that i could remember.
>> I actually do not follow this thread, but this kinda jumped into  
>> my  eye ;-)
>> ...

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From mcdomi at free.fr  Tue Nov  1 06:32:41 2005
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 12:32:41 +0100
Subject: [Ann] ArcadeEngine 1.5 released
In-Reply-To: <D773BB8A-4ABF-11DA-A25F-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <1h5cldu.1hr7q0nc62bgsM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Malte Brill <revolution at derbrill.de> wrote:

> <http://derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30>

this link seems to be for trial only...
how to do for existing registered users?

-- 
Revolutionario



From tkuypers at pandora.be  Tue Nov  1 06:39:27 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 12:39:27 +0100
Subject: popup of menu
Message-ID: <06F6AABA-2854-4ECB-8A90-7C2009ADA071@pandora.be>

Hi,

In the "old days", when I didn't know better, I was using SuperCard.  
I seem to recall there was a possibility to popup menu's with a basic  
value...
What I mean is the user selected item 27 from a menu and the next  
time he opened the menu, the menu showed item 27 of the menu at the  
mouseposition.

I think the command was popup menu "XXX" at the topleft of me with  
fld "menuresult" (or something like that...)

In Revolution this works for a button of type "Option" but I need to  
use a regular pop-up button.

Anybody any suggestions?

Regards,


Ton Kuypers
Digital Media Partners bvba
Tel. +32 (0)477 / 739 530
Fax +32 (0)14 / 71 03 04
http://www.dmp-int.com





From david at openpartnership.net  Tue Nov  1 07:30:00 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 13:30:00 +0100
Subject: Geometry Question
In-Reply-To: <43651C11.7050107@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF88FE42.23DB0%scott@tactilemedia.com>	<2F3C01A4-B55F-470D-A551-53E9B782DDBC@writeme.com>	<89B779D0-AFC6-40B5-B1E4-B4BCA6242C84@openpartnership.net>	<4364ECF8.7010700@fourthworld.com>
	<4E81A04C-D516-42A9-BF0E-084645DD44D9@openpartnership.net>
	<43651C11.7050107@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <7F3F56DB-7C6C-49D7-8A18-B07F3745EF79@openpartnership.net>

On 30 Oct 2005, at 20:16, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Just roll your own and move on to more interesting challenges.

OK - thanks Richard. Have reverted to your suggestion for complex  
layouts. Pity though Geometry Manager is a real time saver - I often  
spend a good percentage of my time on a stack dealing with the  
geometry management by hand :(


From revolution at derbrill.de  Tue Nov  1 07:29:40 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 13:29:40 +0100
Subject: [Ann] ArcadeEngine 1.5 released
In-Reply-To: <20051031180004.779D0824FCB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <2C56FC7F-4AD3-11DA-A25F-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Bonjour Dom!

 >this link seems to be for trial only...
 >how to do for existing registered users?

It is the same stack. :-)

It works in trial mode unless it is registred with an unlock code.
If you have already entered your unlock code in an earlier AE version 
you can just go using this stack. It will use your existing 
registration data. Otherwise go to the register card and enter your 
unlock code into the field to turn it into a full working version 
without trial limitations.

@Jan,

I always liked Arcanoid (or breakout) games most. Would you mind 
showing it to me when you are finished?

All the best,

Malte




From phefti at club-internet.fr  Tue Nov  1 09:18:47 2005
From: phefti at club-internet.fr (Pascal)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 15:18:47 +0100
Subject: Layout ?
Message-ID: <5c61caccc97c2298a9b039208058be41@club-internet.fr>

Hello,

I want to organize the same datas in different ways.
Is there a way to do so with Revolution ?
Is there something that works like layouts in FileMaker and allows to 
show the same fields differently according to needs ?

Thanks.

Pascal



From selid at broadpark.no  Tue Nov  1 09:38:01 2005
From: selid at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jan_S=E6lid?=)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 15:38:01 +0100
Subject: More efficent checking of multiple objects
Message-ID: <00db01c5def1$dc4d3860$0500000a@makabre>

Hi there

In my project I hav a group of buttons that works like a timeline. Something like this:

|btn 1|  |btn2|  |btn3|  |btn4|  etc...up....to...  |btn999|

The groups works for me. The user can add and delete buttons. And move buttons to change the order of them. Like this:

|btn3|  |btn2|  |btn4| ...etc.

Now my request is this. 
(I do apologize for not doing the hard work myself - I really have contemplated a lot on the subject :-) )

I use a repeat with T=1 to (the number of buttons of group "Timeline")
because I need to reorganize all the other buttons if the user moves just one of them.

In the future the user can have up to 1000 of these buttons in the timeline. At this point I guess the repeat loop will be very slow.

Is there a more efficient method I can use here?

Jan


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Nov  1 09:57:35 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 06:57:35 -0800
Subject: popup of menu
In-Reply-To: <06F6AABA-2854-4ECB-8A90-7C2009ADA071@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <BF8CC25F.240A6%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Ton Kuypers  wrote:

> In the "old days", when I didn't know better, I was using SuperCard.
> I seem to recall there was a possibility to popup menu's with a basic
> value...
> What I mean is the user selected item 27 from a menu and the next
> time he opened the menu, the menu showed item 27 of the menu at the
> mouseposition.
> 
> I think the command was popup menu "XXX" at the topleft of me with
> fld "menuresult" (or something like that...)
> 
> In Revolution this works for a button of type "Option" but I need to
> use a regular pop-up button.
> 
> Anybody any suggestions?

If I understand what you're asking, I believe you want the menuHistory
property.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Tue Nov  1 10:22:46 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 15:22:46 +0000
Subject: Custom Properties Problem
In-Reply-To: <BF8CC25F.240A6%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF8CC25F.240A6%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <a05210601bf8d363e936f@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

I have the following in a Stack Script:

function Initialize
set the customKeys of me to empty
end Initialize


on preOpenStack
get Initialize()
pass preOpenStack
end preOpenStack

I save and close the stack and then reopen it. The preOpenCard 
handler runs but when I look at the custom properties of the stack in 
the property inspector, they have not been deleted!

Am I doing something wrong?

I also tried the following in the message box:

set the customKeys of stack "StackX" to empty

And this didn't work either.

Thanks in advance
Dave



From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Nov  1 10:22:52 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 07:22:52 -0800
Subject: More efficent checking of multiple objects
In-Reply-To: <00db01c5def1$dc4d3860$0500000a@makabre>
References: <00db01c5def1$dc4d3860$0500000a@makabre>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20051101071507.01eb9538@pop3.pon.net>

Dear Jan,

>I use a repeat with T=1 to (the number of buttons of group "Timeline")
>because I need to reorganize all the other buttons if the user moves just 
>one of them.
>
>In the future the user can have up to 1000 of these buttons in the 
>timeline. At this point I guess the repeat loop will be very slow.
>
>Is there a more efficient method I can use here?

If the user eliminates or changes button x, is there any need to adjust 
buttons 1 through (x-1)?  If not, you can start T=X to (the number of 
buttons of group "Timeline".  It won't help much if the target is button 1; 
but it should help lots if the target is button 999.

If the relationship of the buttons is different such that action on button 
x can require changes to buttons 1 to (x-1), I'd need to know more to offer 
further suggestions.

Rob Cozens, CCW
Serendipity Software Company

Vive R Revolution! 



From selid at broadpark.no  Tue Nov  1 10:38:20 2005
From: selid at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jan_S=E6lid?=)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 16:38:20 +0100
Subject: More efficent checking of multiple objects
References: <00db01c5def1$dc4d3860$0500000a@makabre>
	<6.2.1.2.1.20051101071507.01eb9538@pop3.pon.net>
Message-ID: <00f801c5defa$498aa360$0500000a@makabre>

Hi Rob

I have implementet that. The script doesn't check buttons earlier than what 
is needed.
The buttons is only references to customproperties in the group like "the 
_TitleTextButton1 of group "Buttons" so I only
use them to point to different variables. And no, there is no actions in the 
buttons. I control all the action in the script of the group.

the only idea that I have is using the selection tool to draw a rectangle 
around the buttons that needs to be moved.
But this leads to problems cause the group only shows 30 of the buttons at 
any time. With a scrollbar to move left and right in the group.

I guess I need a minimal system requirement for the application.....:-)



> Dear Jan,
>
>>I use a repeat with T=1 to (the number of buttons of group "Timeline")
>>because I need to reorganize all the other buttons if the user moves just 
>>one of them.
>>
>>In the future the user can have up to 1000 of these buttons in the 
>>timeline. At this point I guess the repeat loop will be very slow.
>>
>>Is there a more efficient method I can use here?
>
> If the user eliminates or changes button x, is there any need to adjust 
> buttons 1 through (x-1)?  If not, you can start T=X to (the number of 
> buttons of group "Timeline".  It won't help much if the target is button 
> 1; but it should help lots if the target is button 999.
>
> If the relationship of the buttons is different such that action on button 
> x can require changes to buttons 1 to (x-1), I'd need to know more to 
> offer further suggestions.
>
> Rob Cozens, CCW
> Serendipity Software Company
>
> Vive R Revolution!
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution 



From tkuypers at pandora.be  Tue Nov  1 10:38:32 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 16:38:32 +0100
Subject: popup of menu (functionality not correct implemented...)
In-Reply-To: <BF8CC25F.240A6%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF8CC25F.240A6%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <B6A54916-C5ED-40CC-B522-F2D174E6534E@pandora.be>

Scott,

MenuHistory is indeed is the function I need, but this doesn't work  
for buttons of type "popup".
Furthermore it is very strange that you would have to supply a number  
instead of the text selected...
I'm displaying data from a database, when a user clicks on a record  
he gets the data displayed and some of the data can be changed using  
pop-up menu's. So when a user clicks, I would first have to find the  
item in the list and set the menuhistory every time the user selects  
another record... Would be much easier when I could popup the menu  
with the text in a field...

If it would work for a regular pop-up menu :-(

Thanks anyway,


Ton Kuypers
Digital Media Partners bvba
Tel. +32 (0)477 / 739 530
Fax +32 (0)14 / 71 03 04
http://www.dmp-int.com



On 1-nov-05, at 15:57, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, Ton Kuypers  wrote:
>
>
>> In the "old days", when I didn't know better, I was using SuperCard.
>> I seem to recall there was a possibility to popup menu's with a basic
>> value...
>> What I mean is the user selected item 27 from a menu and the next
>> time he opened the menu, the menu showed item 27 of the menu at the
>> mouseposition.
>>
>> I think the command was popup menu "XXX" at the topleft of me with
>> fld "menuresult" (or something like that...)
>>
>> In Revolution this works for a button of type "Option" but I need to
>> use a regular pop-up button.
>>
>> Anybody any suggestions?
>>
>
> If I understand what you're asking, I believe you want the menuHistory
> property.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Tue Nov  1 11:03:17 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 16:03:17 +0000
Subject: More efficent checking of multiple objects
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.1.20051101071507.01eb9538@pop3.pon.net>
References: <00db01c5def1$dc4d3860$0500000a@makabre>
	<6.2.1.2.1.20051101071507.01eb9538@pop3.pon.net>
Message-ID: <a05210602bf8d3db85532@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

Here's something I did that you may be able to adapt. In my case they 
objects are rectangles and the label/name field is not displayed. 
Also all that needed to happen was if the rectangle was clicked, an 
action specific to that rectangle had to be performed. To do this I 
did the following:

Setup an array that has the key being the (long) name of the button 
and the data as the value of being an object-specific field.

If the user re-ordered the rects all that needed to be done was to 
swap the data field of the Array between objects, e.g.

Given the following Rectangle List:

R1,R2,R3,R4,R5,

The Array would look like this:

"R1",VALUE1
"R2",VALUE2
"R3",VALUE3
"R4",VALUE4
"R5",VALUE5

if user changes the position so that R5 comes after R2

R1,R2,R5,R3,R4,

"R1",VALUE1
"R2",VALUE2
"R3",VALUE5  <-----
"R4",VALUE3
"R5",VALUE4

So all that is done is to move VALUE5 into R3, VALUE3 into R4 and 
VALUE4 into R5.

Then in the mouseUp handler for each rectangle:

on mouseUp
put theArray[the name of me] into myValue
put DoMouseUpInRect(the name of me,myValue) into myResult
end mouseUp

You could do the same using custom properties for each object, but I 
found this harder to maintain and debug.

Don't know if this would help in your case, but maybe you can adapt the idea.

All the Best
Dave

>Dear Jan,
>
>>I use a repeat with T=1 to (the number of buttons of group "Timeline")
>>because I need to reorganize all the other buttons if the user 
>>moves just one of them.
>>
>>In the future the user can have up to 1000 of these buttons in the 
>>timeline. At this point I guess the repeat loop will be very slow.
>>
>>Is there a more efficient method I can use here?
>
>If the user eliminates or changes button x, is there any need to 
>adjust buttons 1 through (x-1)?  If not, you can start T=X to (the 
>number of buttons of group "Timeline".  It won't help much if the 
>target is button 1; but it should help lots if the target is button 
>999.
>
>If the relationship of the buttons is different such that action on 
>button x can require changes to buttons 1 to (x-1), I'd need to know 
>more to offer further suggestions.
>
>Rob Cozens, CCW
>Serendipity Software Company
>
>Vive R Revolution!
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Tue Nov  1 11:06:51 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 16:06:51 +0000
Subject: popup of menu (functionality not correct implemented...)
In-Reply-To: <B6A54916-C5ED-40CC-B522-F2D174E6534E@pandora.be>
References: <BF8CC25F.240A6%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<B6A54916-C5ED-40CC-B522-F2D174E6534E@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <a05210603bf8d42757211@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

All you have to do is this:

function GetMenuItem theMenuItemName
put lineOffset(theMenuItemName,the text of button "popUp") into my myMenuItem
return myMenuItem



Then use it like this:

set the menuHistory of button "popUp" to GetMenuItem("TheMenuString")

All the Best
Dave


>Scott,
>
>MenuHistory is indeed is the function I need, but this doesn't work 
>for buttons of type "popup".
>Furthermore it is very strange that you would have to supply a 
>number instead of the text selected...
>I'm displaying data from a database, when a user clicks on a record 
>he gets the data displayed and some of the data can be changed using 
>pop-up menu's. So when a user clicks, I would first have to find the 
>item in the list and set the menuhistory every time the user selects 
>another record... Would be much easier when I could popup the menu 
>with the text in a field...
>
>If it would work for a regular pop-up menu :-(
>
>Thanks anyway,
>
>
>Ton Kuypers
>Digital Media Partners bvba
>Tel. +32 (0)477 / 739 530
>Fax +32 (0)14 / 71 03 04
>http://www.dmp-int.com
>
>
>
>On 1-nov-05, at 15:57, Scott Rossi wrote:
>
>>Recently, Ton Kuypers  wrote:
>>
>>>In the "old days", when I didn't know better, I was using SuperCard.
>>>I seem to recall there was a possibility to popup menu's with a basic
>>>value...
>>>What I mean is the user selected item 27 from a menu and the next
>>>time he opened the menu, the menu showed item 27 of the menu at the
>>>mouseposition.
>>>
>>>I think the command was popup menu "XXX" at the topleft of me with
>>>fld "menuresult" (or something like that...)
>>>
>>>In Revolution this works for a button of type "Option" but I need to
>>>use a regular pop-up button.
>>>
>>>Anybody any suggestions?
>>>
>>
>>If I understand what you're asking, I believe you want the menuHistory
>>property.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Scott Rossi
>>Creative Director
>>Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
>>-----
>>E: scott at tactilemedia.com
>>W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-revolution mailing list
>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>subscription preferences:
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Nov  1 11:21:28 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 17:21:28 +0100
Subject: Custom Properties Problem
In-Reply-To: <a05210601bf8d363e936f@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <BF8CC25F.240A6%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<a05210601bf8d363e936f@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <02F5C38B-4C8A-4BDE-AB4C-9354267D1330@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Dave,

1. Put your initialization into an openStack handler, not a  
preOpenStack handler to make it working.
2. A function is supposed to return a result: a handler might be more  
appropriate here ;-)

on Initialize
   set the customKeys of me to empty -- of this stack
end Initialize

on openStack
   Initialize
   pass openStack
end openStack

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 1 nov. 05 ? 16:22, David Burgun a ?crit :

> Hi,
>
> I have the following in a Stack Script:
>
> function Initialize
> set the customKeys of me to empty
> end Initialize
>
>
> on preOpenStack
> get Initialize()
> pass preOpenStack
> end preOpenStack
>
> I save and close the stack and then reopen it. The preOpenCard  
> handler runs but when I look at the custom properties of the stack  
> in the property inspector, they have not been deleted!
>
> Am I doing something wrong?
>
> I also tried the following in the message box:
>
> set the customKeys of stack "StackX" to empty
>
> And this didn't work either.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Dave

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From selid at broadpark.no  Tue Nov  1 11:37:29 2005
From: selid at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jan_S=E6lid?=)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 17:37:29 +0100
Subject: More efficent checking of multiple objects
References: <00db01c5def1$dc4d3860$0500000a@makabre>
	<6.2.1.2.1.20051101071507.01eb9538@pop3.pon.net>
	<a05210602bf8d3db85532@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <010701c5df02$8d1d8d60$0500000a@makabre>

Thanks Dave

That I will do. Really useful.

Jan
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Burgun" <dburgun at dsl.pipex.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: More efficent checking of multiple objects


> Hi,
>
> Here's something I did that you may be able to adapt. In my case they 
> objects are rectangles and the label/name field is not displayed. Also all 
> that needed to happen was if the rectangle was clicked, an action specific 
> to that rectangle had to be performed. To do this I did the following:
>
> Setup an array that has the key being the (long) name of the button and 
> the data as the value of being an object-specific field.
>
> If the user re-ordered the rects all that needed to be done was to swap 
> the data field of the Array between objects, e.g.
>
> Given the following Rectangle List:
>
> R1,R2,R3,R4,R5,
>
> The Array would look like this:
>
> "R1",VALUE1
> "R2",VALUE2
> "R3",VALUE3
> "R4",VALUE4
> "R5",VALUE5
>
> if user changes the position so that R5 comes after R2
>
> R1,R2,R5,R3,R4,
>
> "R1",VALUE1
> "R2",VALUE2
> "R3",VALUE5  <-----
> "R4",VALUE3
> "R5",VALUE4
>
> So all that is done is to move VALUE5 into R3, VALUE3 into R4 and VALUE4 
> into R5.
>
> Then in the mouseUp handler for each rectangle:
>
> on mouseUp
> put theArray[the name of me] into myValue
> put DoMouseUpInRect(the name of me,myValue) into myResult
> end mouseUp
>
> You could do the same using custom properties for each object, but I found 
> this harder to maintain and debug.
>
> Don't know if this would help in your case, but maybe you can adapt the 
> idea.
>
> All the Best
> Dave
>
>>Dear Jan,
>>
>>>I use a repeat with T=1 to (the number of buttons of group "Timeline")
>>>because I need to reorganize all the other buttons if the user moves just 
>>>one of them.
>>>
>>>In the future the user can have up to 1000 of these buttons in the 
>>>timeline. At this point I guess the repeat loop will be very slow.
>>>
>>>Is there a more efficient method I can use here?
>>
>>If the user eliminates or changes button x, is there any need to adjust 
>>buttons 1 through (x-1)?  If not, you can start T=X to (the number of 
>>buttons of group "Timeline".  It won't help much if the target is button 
>>1; but it should help lots if the target is button 999.
>>
>>If the relationship of the buttons is different such that action on button 
>>x can require changes to buttons 1 to (x-1), I'd need to know more to 
>>offer further suggestions.
>>
>>Rob Cozens, CCW
>>Serendipity Software Company
>>
>>Vive R Revolution!
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-revolution mailing list
>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>subscription preferences:
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution 



From tkuypers at pandora.be  Tue Nov  1 11:42:48 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 17:42:48 +0100
Subject: popup of menu (functionality not correct implemented...)
In-Reply-To: <a05210603bf8d42757211@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <BF8CC25F.240A6%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<B6A54916-C5ED-40CC-B522-F2D174E6534E@pandora.be>
	<a05210603bf8d42757211@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <6D9AFADD-9E0D-4729-AEFE-6D685DACB15E@pandora.be>

Dave,

That is something I already implemented, right after Scott Rossi's  
suggestion...

But the problem is that menuHistory doesn't work for buttons with the  
menu type "Pop Up" :-((

Ton



On 1-nov-05, at 17:06, David Burgun wrote:

> Hi,
>
> All you have to do is this:
>
> function GetMenuItem theMenuItemName
> put lineOffset(theMenuItemName,the text of button "popUp") into my  
> myMenuItem
> return myMenuItem
>
>
>
> Then use it like this:
>
> set the menuHistory of button "popUp" to GetMenuItem("TheMenuString")
>
> All the Best
> Dave
>
>
>
>> Scott,
>>
>> MenuHistory is indeed is the function I need, but this doesn't  
>> work for buttons of type "popup".
>> Furthermore it is very strange that you would have to supply a  
>> number instead of the text selected...
>> I'm displaying data from a database, when a user clicks on a  
>> record he gets the data displayed and some of the data can be  
>> changed using pop-up menu's. So when a user clicks, I would first  
>> have to find the item in the list and set the menuhistory every  
>> time the user selects another record... Would be much easier when  
>> I could popup the menu with the text in a field...
>>
>> If it would work for a regular pop-up menu :-(
>>
>> Thanks anyway,
>>
>>
>> Ton Kuypers
>> Digital Media Partners bvba
>> Tel. +32 (0)477 / 739 530
>> Fax +32 (0)14 / 71 03 04
>> http://www.dmp-int.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1-nov-05, at 15:57, Scott Rossi wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Recently, Ton Kuypers  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> In the "old days", when I didn't know better, I was using  
>>>> SuperCard.
>>>> I seem to recall there was a possibility to popup menu's with a  
>>>> basic
>>>> value...
>>>> What I mean is the user selected item 27 from a menu and the next
>>>> time he opened the menu, the menu showed item 27 of the menu at the
>>>> mouseposition.
>>>>
>>>> I think the command was popup menu "XXX" at the topleft of me with
>>>> fld "menuresult" (or something like that...)
>>>>
>>>> In Revolution this works for a button of type "Option" but I  
>>>> need to
>>>> use a regular pop-up button.
>>>>
>>>> Anybody any suggestions?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> If I understand what you're asking, I believe you want the  
>>> menuHistory
>>> property.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Scott Rossi
>>> Creative Director
>>> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
>>> -----
>>> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
>>> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Tue Nov  1 12:02:09 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 17:02:09 +0000
Subject: Custom Properties Problem
In-Reply-To: <02F5C38B-4C8A-4BDE-AB4C-9354267D1330@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <BF8CC25F.240A6%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<a05210601bf8d363e936f@[192.168.0.101]>
	<02F5C38B-4C8A-4BDE-AB4C-9354267D1330@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <a05210604bf8d4efe6421@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

Actually I had to move the preOpenStack handler into the script of card 1.

Sorry, the real function does return a value, I just cut all the 
unecessary code out for posting on the list.

I think what was happening was that the wrong stack was being 
operated on in the preOpenStack handler. I think that "me" was 
refering to the stack that caused the stack in question to open.

The problem with using "this stack" apposed to "me" is that if a 
handler is called from another stack then "this stack" refers to the 
calling stack. I use "me" to refer to the stack that the code is 
running in as per the docs. Is this correct?

Seems to work now I have put it into the card script.

All the Best
Dave


>Hi Dave,
>
>1. Put your initialization into an openStack handler, not a 
>preOpenStack handler to make it working.
>2. A function is supposed to return a result: a handler might be 
>more appropriate here ;-)
>
>on Initialize
>   set the customKeys of me to empty -- of this stack
>end Initialize
>
>on openStack
>   Initialize
>   pass openStack
>end openStack
>
>Best Regards from Paris,
>
>Eric Chatonet.
>
>Le 1 nov. 05 ? 16:22, David Burgun a ?crit :
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I have the following in a Stack Script:
>>
>>function Initialize
>>set the customKeys of me to empty
>>end Initialize
>>
>>
>>on preOpenStack
>>get Initialize()
>>pass preOpenStack
>>end preOpenStack
>>
>>I save and close the stack and then reopen it. The preOpenCard 
>>handler runs but when I look at the custom properties of the stack 
>>in the property inspector, they have not been deleted!
>>
>>Am I doing something wrong?
>>
>>I also tried the following in the message box:
>>
>>set the customKeys of stack "StackX" to empty
>>
>>And this didn't work either.
>>
>>Thanks in advance
>>Dave
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>So Smart Software
>
>For institutions, companies and associations
>Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
>Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
>Free plugins and tutorials on my website
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
>Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
>Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
>Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Tue Nov  1 12:03:56 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 17:03:56 +0000
Subject: popup of menu (functionality not correct implemented...)
In-Reply-To: <6D9AFADD-9E0D-4729-AEFE-6D685DACB15E@pandora.be>
References: <BF8CC25F.240A6%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<B6A54916-C5ED-40CC-B522-F2D174E6534E@pandora.be>
	<a05210603bf8d42757211@[192.168.0.101]>
	<6D9AFADD-9E0D-4729-AEFE-6D685DACB15E@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <a05210605bf8d5036ad64@[192.168.0.101]>

Have you tried:

select line GetMeniItem("theMenuString") of me

This may work.
All the Best
Dave

>Dave,
>
>That is something I already implemented, right after Scott Rossi's 
>suggestion...
>
>But the problem is that menuHistory doesn't work for buttons with 
>the menu type "Pop Up" :-((
>
>Ton
>
>
>
>On 1-nov-05, at 17:06, David Burgun wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>All you have to do is this:
>>
>>function GetMenuItem theMenuItemName
>>put lineOffset(theMenuItemName,the text of button "popUp") into my myMenuItem
>>return myMenuItem
>>
>>
>>
>>Then use it like this:
>>
>>set the menuHistory of button "popUp" to GetMenuItem("TheMenuString")
>>
>>All the Best
>>Dave
>>
>>
>>>Scott,
>>>
>>>MenuHistory is indeed is the function I need, but this doesn't 
>>>work for buttons of type "popup".
>>>Furthermore it is very strange that you would have to supply a 
>>>number instead of the text selected...
>>>I'm displaying data from a database, when a user clicks on a 
>>>record he gets the data displayed and some of the data can be 
>>>changed using pop-up menu's. So when a user clicks, I would first 
>>>have to find the item in the list and set the menuhistory every 
>>>time the user selects another record... Would be much easier when 
>>>I could popup the menu with the text in a field...
>>>
>>>If it would work for a regular pop-up menu :-(
>>>
>>>Thanks anyway,
>>>
>>>
>>>Ton Kuypers
>>>Digital Media Partners bvba
>>>Tel. +32 (0)477 / 739 530
>>>Fax +32 (0)14 / 71 03 04
>>>http://www.dmp-int.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On 1-nov-05, at 15:57, Scott Rossi wrote:
>>>
>>>>Recently, Ton Kuypers  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In the "old days", when I didn't know better, I was using SuperCard.
>>>>>I seem to recall there was a possibility to popup menu's with a basic
>>>>>value...
>>>>>What I mean is the user selected item 27 from a menu and the next
>>>>>time he opened the menu, the menu showed item 27 of the menu at the
>>>>>mouseposition.
>>>>>
>>>>>I think the command was popup menu "XXX" at the topleft of me with
>>>>>fld "menuresult" (or something like that...)
>>>>>
>>>>>In Revolution this works for a button of type "Option" but I need to
>>>>>use a regular pop-up button.
>>>>>
>>>>>Anybody any suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>If I understand what you're asking, I believe you want the menuHistory
>>>>property.
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>
>>>>Scott Rossi
>>>>Creative Director
>>>>Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
>>>>-----
>>>>E: scott at tactilemedia.com
>>>>W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>use-revolution mailing list
>>>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>>subscription preferences:
>>>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>use-revolution mailing list
>>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>subscription preferences:
>>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-revolution mailing list
>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>subscription preferences:
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Nov  1 12:11:20 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 11:11:20 -0600
Subject: popup of menu (functionality not correct implemented...)
In-Reply-To: <6D9AFADD-9E0D-4729-AEFE-6D685DACB15E@pandora.be>
References: <BF8CC25F.240A6%scott@tactilemedia.com>	<B6A54916-C5ED-40CC-B522-F2D174E6534E@pandora.be>	<a05210603bf8d42757211@[192.168.0.101]>
	<6D9AFADD-9E0D-4729-AEFE-6D685DACB15E@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <4367A1B8.3040308@chipp.com>

Maybe an option menu would work for you? It always displays the last 
choice in it's label.

Or, take a look at putting !c before the line you wish selected in the 
popup menu. This will create a check mark showing the user which is 
selected.

The problem with popping it up over the 'default' or 'last selected' 
value, is that a small move of the mouse changes what the user may 
perceive as the default. So, the checkmark helps. For very long popup 
menus (like a listing of fonts) it would be nice to have it popup over 
the last selected value.

best,

Chipp




From tkuypers at pandora.be  Tue Nov  1 12:15:37 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 18:15:37 +0100
Subject: popup of menu (functionality not correct implemented...)
In-Reply-To: <a05210605bf8d5036ad64@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <BF8CC25F.240A6%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<B6A54916-C5ED-40CC-B522-F2D174E6534E@pandora.be>
	<a05210603bf8d42757211@[192.168.0.101]>
	<6D9AFADD-9E0D-4729-AEFE-6D685DACB15E@pandora.be>
	<a05210605bf8d5036ad64@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <F0707609-0456-40D5-96D7-D9325F8C3F08@pandora.be>

:-(

Unless I misunderstood what you ment, it doesn't work...

I have a button on the card of type "pop up" named "TestMenu"
This button has got 10 lines of text, which creates a menu of 10 items.
I have one field on the card named "Test"

The button contains the following code:
     on mouseDown
       select line fGetMenuItem(fld "TestField") of me
     end mouseDown

     ON menupick vChoice
       put vChoice into fld "TestField"
       set the menuHistory of me to fGetMenuItem(fld "TestField")
     END menupick

     FUNCTION fGetMenuItem vMenuItemName
       put the text of button "TestMenu" into vMenuText
       put lineOffset(vMenuItemName,vMenuText) into vMenuItem
       return vMenuItem
     END fGetMenuItem

and the result: The menu just pops up with item 1 underneath the  
cursor :-(


Any more suggestions?

Ton


On 1-nov-05, at 18:03, David Burgun wrote:
Have you tried:

select line GetMeniItem("theMenuString") of me

This may work.
All the Best
Dave



From lynn at paradigmasoft.com  Tue Nov  1 12:16:19 2005
From: lynn at paradigmasoft.com (Lynn Fredricks)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 09:16:19 -0800
Subject: Valentina Office Server 2.1  Announced
In-Reply-To: <4366C3E8.7030403@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <1081257108-225889911@lindbergh.macserve.net>

> Congratulations on the new announced product! It looks like a 
> winner. :-)

Thanks Chipp!

This translates into is ease in porting mySQL solutions over to Valentina,
and there are plenty of web kits out there that love AdoDB.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software, Inc

Joining Worlds of Information

Deploy True Client-Server Database Solutions
Royalty Free with Valentina Developer Network
http://www.paradigmasoft.com






> -Chipp
> 
> Lynn Fredricks wrote:
> > Valentina Office Server 2.1 Announced
> > 
> > NEW BUSINESS READY DATABASE SERVER GAINS PHP WEB SCRIPTING, 
> INDUSTRY 
> > STANDARD INTERFACES
> > 
> > October 31, 2005. Beaverton, Oregon.  Paradigma Software, Inc 
> > announces Valentina 2.1 Office Server, a major update to 
> the company's 
> > fast and robust database server.
> > 
> > Valentina 2.1 Office Server will add a special client module for 
> > interfacing with the PHP scripting language. This Valentina 
> PHP client 
> > module includes the following features:
> > 
> > PHP 4+ Scripting Support. Valentina 2.1 will have a PHP 
> interface that 
> > is closely modeled after industry standard PHP APIs, 
> allowing users of 
> > other database servers to rapidly port their PHP applications as 
> > easily as doing a find/replace with a VAL_ prefix. This will allow 
> > easy porting from mySQL AB's mySQL.
> > 
> > PEAR API Support. Inclusion of a PEAR compatible class. PEAR is a 
> > structured code library, set of packaging standards and extension 
> > module broadly accepted for interfacing PHP and databases.
> > 
> > AdoDB Support. A data abstraction layer used by database solution 
> > providers to interface with a broad range of enterprise 
> class database 
> > servers and technologies.
> > 
> > Valentina 2.1 Office Server incorporates the incredibly fast and 
> > robust Valentina 2 database engine. Other features include fast 
> > abstraction links, Unicode UTF-16 native format, Valentina XML 
> > import/export data and schema, SQL '92, simultaneous data exchange 
> > with read-only media, record level locks and 448 bit encryption.
> > 
> > Office Server includes developer client modules for 
> accessing server 
> > data from applications made with popular development tools 
> on Windows 
> > and Macintosh, including Runtime Revolution's Revolution rapid 
> > application development tool. Runtime Revolution provides a 
> fast and 
> > productive environment to build front ends for Valentina 
> Office Server based solutions.
> > 
> > Each copy of Valentina 2 Office Server includes a copy of Valentina 
> > Studio Admin Edition, the database management tool.
> > 
> > Valentina 2 Office Server pricing begins at $299 (with substantial 
> > discounts to Valentina Developer Network members) and is 
> available on 
> > Windows and MacOS X.
> > 
> > For more information, visit  the Paradigma Software at 
> > http://www.paradigmasoft.com or its authorized European 
> distributors.
> > 
> > About Paradigma Software, Inc
> > 
> > Founded in 1998, Beaverton, Oregon-based Paradigma Software, Inc is 
> > the leading provider of incredibly fast and robust database 
> solutions 
> > for business and development. Valentina 2 technology powers 
> solutions 
> > as diverse as graphics applications from major Japanese electronics 
> > companies to solutions supporting US public schools. Paradigma 
> > Software solutions are available for every major development 
> > environment on the Windows and Macintosh platforms.
> > 
> > For additional information, visit the Paradigma Software website at 
> > http://www.paradigmasoft.com.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 




From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Tue Nov  1 12:19:00 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 17:19:00 +0000
Subject: More efficent checking of multiple objects
In-Reply-To: <010701c5df02$8d1d8d60$0500000a@makabre>
References: <00db01c5def1$dc4d3860$0500000a@makabre>
	<6.2.1.2.1.20051101071507.01eb9538@pop3.pon.net>
	<a05210602bf8d3db85532@[192.168.0.101]>
	<010701c5df02$8d1d8d60$0500000a@makabre>
Message-ID: <a05210606bf8d520419fc@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

You could also put the mouse up handler in the group and change it 
slightly as so:

on mouseUp
put theArray[the name of the target] into myValue
put DoMouseUpInRect(the name of the target,myValue) into myResult
end mouseUp

All the Best
Dave


>Thanks Dave
>
>That I will do. Really useful.
>
>Jan
>----- Original Message ----- From: "David Burgun" <dburgun at dsl.pipex.com>
>To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 5:03 PM
>Subject: Re: More efficent checking of multiple objects
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>Here's something I did that you may be able to adapt. In my case 
>>they objects are rectangles and the label/name field is not 
>>displayed. Also all that needed to happen was if the rectangle was 
>>clicked, an action specific to that rectangle had to be performed. 
>>To do this I did the following:
>>
>>Setup an array that has the key being the (long) name of the button 
>>and the data as the value of being an object-specific field.
>>
>>If the user re-ordered the rects all that needed to be done was to 
>>swap the data field of the Array between objects, e.g.
>>
>>Given the following Rectangle List:
>>
>>R1,R2,R3,R4,R5,
>>
>>The Array would look like this:
>>
>>"R1",VALUE1
>>"R2",VALUE2
>>"R3",VALUE3
>>"R4",VALUE4
>>"R5",VALUE5
>>
>>if user changes the position so that R5 comes after R2
>>
>>R1,R2,R5,R3,R4,
>>
>>"R1",VALUE1
>>"R2",VALUE2
>>"R3",VALUE5  <-----
>>"R4",VALUE3
>>"R5",VALUE4
>>
>>So all that is done is to move VALUE5 into R3, VALUE3 into R4 and 
>>VALUE4 into R5.
>>
>>Then in the mouseUp handler for each rectangle:
>>
>>on mouseUp
>>put theArray[the name of me] into myValue
>>put DoMouseUpInRect(the name of me,myValue) into myResult
>>end mouseUp
>>
>>You could do the same using custom properties for each object, but 
>>I found this harder to maintain and debug.
>>
>>Don't know if this would help in your case, but maybe you can adapt the idea.
>>
>>All the Best
>>Dave
>>
>>>Dear Jan,
>>>
>>>>I use a repeat with T=1 to (the number of buttons of group "Timeline")
>>>>because I need to reorganize all the other buttons if the user 
>>>>moves just one of them.
>>>>
>>>>In the future the user can have up to 1000 of these buttons in 
>>>>the timeline. At this point I guess the repeat loop will be very 
>>>>slow.
>>>>
>>>>Is there a more efficient method I can use here?
>>>
>>>If the user eliminates or changes button x, is there any need to 
>>>adjust buttons 1 through (x-1)?  If not, you can start T=X to (the 
>>>number of buttons of group "Timeline".  It won't help much if the 
>>>target is button 1; but it should help lots if the target is 
>>>button 999.
>>>
>>>If the relationship of the buttons is different such that action 
>>>on button x can require changes to buttons 1 to (x-1), I'd need to 
>>>know more to offer further suggestions.
>>>
>>>Rob Cozens, CCW
>>>Serendipity Software Company
>>>
>>>Vive R Revolution!
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>use-revolution mailing list
>>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>subscription preferences:
>>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-revolution mailing list
>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>subscription preferences:
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Nov  1 12:20:34 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 18:20:34 +0100
Subject: Custom Properties Problem
In-Reply-To: <a05210604bf8d4efe6421@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <BF8CC25F.240A6%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<a05210601bf8d363e936f@[192.168.0.101]>
	<02F5C38B-4C8A-4BDE-AB4C-9354267D1330@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<a05210604bf8d4efe6421@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <10C3BD65-8F6E-4208-92D0-81F64E148E73@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Dave,

Perfect :-)

Le 1 nov. 05 ? 18:02, David Burgun a ?crit :

> The problem with using "this stack" apposed to "me" is that if a
> handler is called from another stack then "this stack" refers to the
> calling stack. I use "me" to refer to the stack that the code is
> running in as per the docs. Is this correct?

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Tue Nov  1 12:25:37 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 17:25:37 +0000
Subject: popup of menu (functionality not correct implemented...)
In-Reply-To: <F0707609-0456-40D5-96D7-D9325F8C3F08@pandora.be>
References: <BF8CC25F.240A6%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<B6A54916-C5ED-40CC-B522-F2D174E6534E@pandora.be>
	<a05210603bf8d42757211@[192.168.0.101]>
	<6D9AFADD-9E0D-4729-AEFE-6D685DACB15E@pandora.be>
	<a05210605bf8d5036ad64@[192.168.0.101]>
	<F0707609-0456-40D5-96D7-D9325F8C3F08@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <a05210607bf8d5546dde1@[192.168.0.101]>

Just one more!

Try this:

       select line fGetMenuItem(fld "TestField") of the text of me

About 1000 to 1 odds on it working tho!

All the Best
Dave

>:-(
>
>Unless I misunderstood what you ment, it doesn't work...
>
>I have a button on the card of type "pop up" named "TestMenu"
>This button has got 10 lines of text, which creates a menu of 10 items.
>I have one field on the card named "Test"
>
>The button contains the following code:
>     on mouseDown
>       select line fGetMenuItem(fld "TestField") of me
>     end mouseDown
>
>     ON menupick vChoice
>       put vChoice into fld "TestField"
>       set the menuHistory of me to fGetMenuItem(fld "TestField")
>     END menupick
>
>     FUNCTION fGetMenuItem vMenuItemName
>       put the text of button "TestMenu" into vMenuText
>       put lineOffset(vMenuItemName,vMenuText) into vMenuItem
>       return vMenuItem
>     END fGetMenuItem
>
>and the result: The menu just pops up with item 1 underneath the cursor :-(
>
>
>Any more suggestions?
>
>Ton
>
>
>On 1-nov-05, at 18:03, David Burgun wrote:
>Have you tried:
>
>select line GetMeniItem("theMenuString") of me
>
>This may work.
>All the Best
>Dave
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Tue Nov  1 12:35:12 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 09:35:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Ann] ArcadeEngine 1.5 released
In-Reply-To: <D773BB8A-4ABF-11DA-A25F-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511010934360.5237-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Malte,

I can't wait to play with it and hopefully have my spring class use it!

Judy



From tkuypers at pandora.be  Tue Nov  1 13:10:54 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 19:10:54 +0100
Subject: popup of menu (functionality not correct implemented...)
In-Reply-To: <a05210607bf8d5546dde1@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <BF8CC25F.240A6%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<B6A54916-C5ED-40CC-B522-F2D174E6534E@pandora.be>
	<a05210603bf8d42757211@[192.168.0.101]>
	<6D9AFADD-9E0D-4729-AEFE-6D685DACB15E@pandora.be>
	<a05210605bf8d5036ad64@[192.168.0.101]>
	<F0707609-0456-40D5-96D7-D9325F8C3F08@pandora.be>
	<a05210607bf8d5546dde1@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <332E057D-B08C-48C1-89F5-B952512121A3@pandora.be>

:-(

Not working either... I give up, will probably switch to another kind  
of menu...

Thanks anyway!

Ton

On 1-nov-05, at 18:25, David Burgun wrote:

> Just one more!
>
> Try this:
>
>       select line fGetMenuItem(fld "TestField") of the text of me
>
> About 1000 to 1 odds on it working tho!
>
> All the Best
> Dave
>
>
>> :-(
>>
>> Unless I misunderstood what you ment, it doesn't work...
>>
>> I have a button on the card of type "pop up" named "TestMenu"
>> This button has got 10 lines of text, which creates a menu of 10  
>> items.
>> I have one field on the card named "Test"
>>
>> The button contains the following code:
>>     on mouseDown
>>       select line fGetMenuItem(fld "TestField") of me
>>     end mouseDown
>>
>>     ON menupick vChoice
>>       put vChoice into fld "TestField"
>>       set the menuHistory of me to fGetMenuItem(fld "TestField")
>>     END menupick
>>
>>     FUNCTION fGetMenuItem vMenuItemName
>>       put the text of button "TestMenu" into vMenuText
>>       put lineOffset(vMenuItemName,vMenuText) into vMenuItem
>>       return vMenuItem
>>     END fGetMenuItem
>>
>> and the result: The menu just pops up with item 1 underneath the  
>> cursor :-(
>>
>>
>> Any more suggestions?
>>
>> Ton
>>
>>
>> On 1-nov-05, at 18:03, David Burgun wrote:
>> Have you tried:
>>
>> select line GetMeniItem("theMenuString") of me
>>
>> This may work.
>> All the Best
>> Dave
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Nov  1 13:20:30 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 10:20:30 -0800
Subject: [Ann] ArcadeEngine 1.5 released
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511010934360.5237-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511010934360.5237-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <4367B1EE.5060800@fourthworld.com>

Congratulations on the excellent update, Malte.

FWIW, it seems MacNN.com believes Arcade Engine is also an IDE:

    Arcade Engine creates stand-alone applications and
    utilizes an English-like programming language.
    Arcade Engine 1.5 requires Mac OS X 10.0.3 and is
    available for $50.

Did I miss something, or did that editor?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From mcdomi at free.fr  Tue Nov  1 14:11:16 2005
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 20:11:16 +0100
Subject: [Ann] ArcadeEngine 1.5 released
In-Reply-To: <2C56FC7F-4AD3-11DA-A25F-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <1h5d6ok.cx7q3a1npqnrM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Malte Brill <revolution at derbrill.de> wrote:

> It is the same stack. :-)
> 
> It works in trial mode unless it is registred with an unlock code.
> If you have already entered your unlock code in an earlier AE version
> you can just go using this stack. It will use your existing 
> registration data.

OK, that worked, the reg # was already at the right place, 
I had only to click the good button :-)

-- 
Revolutionario



From revolution at derbrill.de  Tue Nov  1 15:34:41 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 21:34:41 +0100
Subject: [Ann] ArcadeEngine 1.5 released
In-Reply-To: <20051101180005.116A682516D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <EE3D1472-4B16-11DA-A25F-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Judy wrote:

 >I can't wait to play with it and hopefully have my spring class use it!

I would be very interested to see what you come up with. Would you mind 
to keep me posted?

Richard wrote:

 >Congratulations on the excellent update, Malte.

 >FWIW, it seems MacNN.com believes Arcade Engine is also an IDE:

 >    Arcade Engine creates stand-alone applications and
 >    utilizes an English-like programming language.
 >    Arcade Engine 1.5 requires Mac OS X 10.0.3 and is
 >    available for $50.

 >Did I miss something, or did that editor?

oO... Well it is definetly not you. :-) Maybe they only had the time to 
skim the press release.But hey, not all articles can be as thoroughly 
written as those on RevJournal. :-)

Dom wrote:

 >OK, that worked, the reg # was already at the right place,
 >I had only to click the good button :-)

Good to know that Dom. Thanks for reporting.

All the best,

Malte



From roark at vcwp.com  Tue Nov  1 16:16:13 2005
From: roark at vcwp.com (Roark)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 13:16:13 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: Tab Panel Question
Message-ID: <4367DB1D.000003.02132@CX287463-A>

Hey everybody!!

I'm new to everything revolution.  Correct me please if I'm not supposed to
be asking these sorts of questions here or if there's a better place to ask
them.

My question so far is how to work with the Tab Panel.  Seems like a dumb
question.  When I add one to the development canvas (as it were), I'm so far
unable to figure out how to add objects to the page that only appear under a
specific tab.

For example, after adding a Tab Panel, I will add a button by either
dragging and dropping or cutting and pasting, hoping it will be assigned to
the first tab of the tab panel.

But when I later drag the Tab Panel (reposition it on the page), the button
in my example is left behind.

I'm sure it's very simple.  Can someone help me by pointing out what is
probably fairly obvious, but that I continue to fail to understand??

Thanks in advance!!
Roark
(ex Visual Basic and ex Real Basic user)

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Nov  1 16:22:08 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 13:22:08 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
Message-ID: <4367DC80.8010100@fourthworld.com>

I'd like to be able to determine if an app is running from a removable 
drive.

I've found that on OS X I can call system_profiler from shell, but it 
takes between 2 and 4 seconds on my 1GHz PB.

And I've found no solution at all for Windows.

While we're waiting for implementation of BZ#101 from July 2003
("detailed drives" 
<http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=101>), do we have 
any quick cross-platform solution for this?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk  Tue Nov  1 16:23:26 2005
From: mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 21:23:26 +0000
Subject: popup of menu (functionality not correct implemented...)
In-Reply-To: <332E057D-B08C-48C1-89F5-B952512121A3@pandora.be>
References: <BF8CC25F.240A6%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<B6A54916-C5ED-40CC-B522-F2D174E6534E@pandora.be>
	<a05210603bf8d42757211@[192.168.0.101]>
	<6D9AFADD-9E0D-4729-AEFE-6D685DACB15E@pandora.be>
	<a05210605bf8d5036ad64@[192.168.0.101]>
	<F0707609-0456-40D5-96D7-D9325F8C3F08@pandora.be>
	<a05210607bf8d5546dde1@[192.168.0.101]>
	<332E057D-B08C-48C1-89F5-B952512121A3@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <4367DCCE.7080402@harbourhost.co.uk>

Ton,

Although you have given up, you might want to consider this, which seems 
to work in a simple test stack.

The flimsy part of this is that you need to know the height of a 
menuitem in your popup, and I don't know a way to get this 
programmatically. I did a screenshot and measured it at 17 pixels on XP 
here.

The offset of the popup topleft sets the last selection under the mouse 
when the menu pops up, and I find that highlights it.

--card script
on mousedown
   put max(field "num",1) into tn
   popup btn "testpop" at mouseh()-8,(mousev()-8-((tn-1)*17))
end mousedown

--script of popup button "testpop"
on menupick
   put the menuhistory of me into field "num"
end menupick

## My test stack has a field "num" which holds the
## last menuhistory of btn "testpop"
## just for testing purposes of course

Martin Baxter

Ton Kuypers wrote:
> :-(
> 
> Not working either... I give up, will probably switch to another kind  
> of menu...
> 
> Thanks anyway!
> 
> Ton
> 
> On 1-nov-05, at 18:25, David Burgun wrote:
> 
>> Just one more!
>>
>> Try this:
>>
>>       select line fGetMenuItem(fld "TestField") of the text of me
>>
>> About 1000 to 1 odds on it working tho!
>>
>> All the Best
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>> :-(
>>>
>>> Unless I misunderstood what you ment, it doesn't work...
>>>
>>> I have a button on the card of type "pop up" named "TestMenu"
>>> This button has got 10 lines of text, which creates a menu of 10  items.
>>> I have one field on the card named "Test"
>>>
>>> The button contains the following code:
>>>     on mouseDown
>>>       select line fGetMenuItem(fld "TestField") of me
>>>     end mouseDown
>>>
>>>     ON menupick vChoice
>>>       put vChoice into fld "TestField"
>>>       set the menuHistory of me to fGetMenuItem(fld "TestField")
>>>     END menupick
>>>
>>>     FUNCTION fGetMenuItem vMenuItemName
>>>       put the text of button "TestMenu" into vMenuText
>>>       put lineOffset(vMenuItemName,vMenuText) into vMenuItem
>>>       return vMenuItem
>>>     END fGetMenuItem
>>>
>>> and the result: The menu just pops up with item 1 underneath the  
>>> cursor :-(
>>>
>>>
>>> Any more suggestions?
>>>
>>> Ton
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1-nov-05, at 18:03, David Burgun wrote:
>>> Have you tried:
>>>
>>> select line GetMeniItem("theMenuString") of me
>>>
>>> This may work.
>>> All the Best
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Nov  1 16:50:48 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 22:50:48 +0100
Subject: Tab Panel Question
In-Reply-To: <4367DB1D.000003.02132@CX287463-A>
References: <4367DB1D.000003.02132@CX287463-A>
Message-ID: <DAE45D19-F52C-4BFE-9E43-B423E0962A6A@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Roark,

You might be interested in the following tutorial:  "How to Manage  
Tabbed Buttons" available from Tutorials Picker:
How to manage tabbed buttons with 2 methods: Multiple cards method  
(each tab is a card) and Groups method (show/hide groups based on tab  
selection).  And, by script, how to set the tabs names, how to select  
a tab, how to disable or enable a tab, etc.
Tutorials Picker is available from my website http:// 
www.sosmartsoftware.com/ (Revolution > Plugins) or Rev Online (user:  
So Smart Software).

Best Regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.

Le 1 nov. 05 ? 22:16, Roark a ?crit :

> I'm new to everything revolution.  Correct me please if I'm not  
> supposed to
> be asking these sorts of questions here or if there's a better  
> place to ask
> them.
>
> My question so far is how to work with the Tab Panel.  Seems like a  
> dumb
> question.  When I add one to the development canvas (as it were),  
> I'm so far
> unable to figure out how to add objects to the page that only  
> appear under a
> specific tab.
>
> For example, after adding a Tab Panel, I will add a button by either
> dragging and dropping or cutting and pasting, hoping it will be  
> assigned to
> the first tab of the tab panel.
>
> But when I later drag the Tab Panel (reposition it on the page),  
> the button
> in my example is left behind.
>
> I'm sure it's very simple.  Can someone help me by pointing out  
> what is
> probably fairly obvious, but that I continue to fail to understand??

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From tkuypers at pandora.be  Tue Nov  1 18:53:41 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 00:53:41 +0100
Subject: popup of menu (functionality not correct implemented...)
In-Reply-To: <4367DCCE.7080402@harbourhost.co.uk>
References: <BF8CC25F.240A6%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<B6A54916-C5ED-40CC-B522-F2D174E6534E@pandora.be>
	<a05210603bf8d42757211@[192.168.0.101]>
	<6D9AFADD-9E0D-4729-AEFE-6D685DACB15E@pandora.be>
	<a05210605bf8d5036ad64@[192.168.0.101]>
	<F0707609-0456-40D5-96D7-D9325F8C3F08@pandora.be>
	<a05210607bf8d5546dde1@[192.168.0.101]>
	<332E057D-B08C-48C1-89F5-B952512121A3@pandora.be>
	<4367DCCE.7080402@harbourhost.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B0305AEC-F9F2-47EE-AA06-2A8E38A9E56E@pandora.be>

Martin,

Interesting approach...
I will see if it is working in my app, thanks for the effort!

regards,

Ton Kuypers


On 1-nov-05, at 22:23, Martin Baxter wrote:

> Ton,
>
> Although you have given up, you might want to consider this, which  
> seems to work in a simple test stack.
>
> The flimsy part of this is that you need to know the height of a  
> menuitem in your popup, and I don't know a way to get this  
> programmatically. I did a screenshot and measured it at 17 pixels  
> on XP here.
>
> The offset of the popup topleft sets the last selection under the  
> mouse when the menu pops up, and I find that highlights it.
>
> --card script
> on mousedown
>   put max(field "num",1) into tn
>   popup btn "testpop" at mouseh()-8,(mousev()-8-((tn-1)*17))
> end mousedown
>
> --script of popup button "testpop"
> on menupick
>   put the menuhistory of me into field "num"
> end menupick
>
> ## My test stack has a field "num" which holds the
> ## last menuhistory of btn "testpop"
> ## just for testing purposes of course
>
> Martin Baxter
>



From fgiannet at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  1 19:03:35 2005
From: fgiannet at hotmail.com (Fred Giannetto)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 19:03:35 -0500
Subject: Trying to return results from a query run on the database
In-Reply-To: <BF8155A1.2E69A%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <BAY106-F3BB0A5AA5ED4BF6C83A1FD76E0@phx.gbl>

Hello,

I am trying to create a list of data entered into the database.

I have recently tried

get revDataFromQuery(tDatabaseEnroll,"SELECT lname, fname, ID from 
usrev.results")
  --revQueryDatabase(tDatabaseEnroll,select "lname", "fname", "ID" from 
usrev.results")
  --revQueryDatabase(tDatabaseEnroll,"select `lname`, `fname`, `ID` from 
usrev.results")
  answer it

for the first line I keep getting the error
Type	Function: error in function handler
Object	Button
Line	get revDataFromQuery(tDatabaseEnroll,"SELECT lname, fname, ID from 
usrev.results")
Hint	revDataFromQuery


for the second I keep getting
Type	Expression: missing ')' before factor
Object	Button
Line	revQueryDatabase(tDatabaseEnroll,select "lname", "fname", "ID" from 
usrev.results")
Hint	lname

for the third
Type	Function: error in function handler
Object	Button
Line	get revDataFromQuery(tDatabaseEnroll,"SELECT `lname`, `fname`, `ID` 
from usrev.results")
Hint	revDataFromQuery

when I put single quotes on the variables I get an error that states it 
can't find the handler.

I would think the first statement would work, does anyone see what I am 
missing?

Also, what does the "cant find handler" statement mean?

Thank you
All best Always
Fred




From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Nov  1 19:10:48 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 16:10:48 -0800
Subject: Trying to return results from a query run on the database
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-F3BB0A5AA5ED4BF6C83A1FD76E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY106-F3BB0A5AA5ED4BF6C83A1FD76E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A355DAF7-FB9B-4E53-9164-3910D006B8F2@mangomultimedia.com>

On Nov 1, 2005, at 4:03 PM, Fred Giannetto wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am trying to create a list of data entered into the database.
>
> I have recently tried
>
> get revDataFromQuery(tDatabaseEnroll,"SELECT lname, fname, ID from  
> usrev.results")
>  --revQueryDatabase(tDatabaseEnroll,select "lname", "fname", "ID"  
> from usrev.results")
>  --revQueryDatabase(tDatabaseEnroll,"select `lname`, `fname`, `ID`  
> from usrev.results")
>  answer it

Hi Fred,

First statement: Your parameters are wrong.  The parameters for  
revDataFromQuery are:

revDataFromQuery([columnDelim],[rowDelim],databaseID,SQLQuery 
[,varsList])

Second statement: Two things - revQueryDatabase is a function and  
quotes are wrong.  You need to wrap your entire string in double  
quotes.  If you want to embed double quotes in the string you can use  
the format function or something like:

get "SELECT "& quote& "fname"& quote&", "& quote& "ID"& ...

Third Statment: revQueryDatabase is a function.  The examples in the  
docs are incorrect.  Call it like this (the transcript should all be  
on one line):

put revQueryDatabase(tDatabaseEnroll,"select `lname`, `fname`, `ID`  
from usrev.results") into tRecordSetID


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Nov  1 19:12:59 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 16:12:59 -0800
Subject: Geometry Question
In-Reply-To: <7F3F56DB-7C6C-49D7-8A18-B07F3745EF79@openpartnership.net>
References: <BF88FE42.23DB0%scott@tactilemedia.com>	<2F3C01A4-B55F-470D-A551-53E9B782DDBC@writeme.com>	<89B779D0-AFC6-40B5-B1E4-B4BCA6242C84@openpartnership.net>	<4364ECF8.7010700@fourthworld.com>	<4E81A04C-D516-42A9-BF0E-084645DD44D9@openpartnership.net>	<43651C11.7050107@fourthworld.com>
	<7F3F56DB-7C6C-49D7-8A18-B07F3745EF79@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <4368048B.5050401@fourthworld.com>

David Bovill wrote:
> On 30 Oct 2005, at 20:16, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Just roll your own and move on to more interesting challenges.
> 
> 
> OK - thanks Richard. Have reverted to your suggestion for complex  
> layouts. Pity though Geometry Manager is a real time saver - I often  
> spend a good percentage of my time on a stack dealing with the  geometry 
> management by hand :(

And for many layouts the GM does a fine job.  But as you've discovered, 
there's are limits inherent in generalization.

Attempting to create a one-size-fits-all solution for adjusting layouts 
is a very difficult task, requiring something just this side of strong 
AI to pull off for complex layouts, esp. those in which some object 
positions are dependent on others.

Ken Ray and I have an ongoing ritual in which one of us will call the 
other in the middle of the night while we're stuck designing a library, 
and ask, "Am I overgeneralizing this?"  As often as not we manage to 
talk the other down from the ledge of generalization where it risks 
over-generalization.

Sometimes rolling up one's sleeves and cutting some code is a 
cost-effective way to get through the task and on to more interesting 
ones. :)

Chipp's split the difference on this approach with the best of both 
worlds: the altLayoutManager plugin automates the generation of code for 
a resizeStack handler, leaving you free to tweak it directly at will.
<http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginDownload/Downloads.htm>

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From selid at broadpark.no  Tue Nov  1 19:18:46 2005
From: selid at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jan_S=E6lid?=)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 01:18:46 +0100
Subject: Strange cursor behaviour after a drag event...
References: <001901c5de40$8cc2b150$0500000a@makabre>
	<B17B2DCC-E5E5-42B3-8C61-8ED6F92CD215@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<003701c5de42$e335aa40$0500000a@makabre>
Message-ID: <018e01c5df42$fdf75e90$0500000a@makabre>

The problem with the reversed cursor after a drag event is back.
I did what mr. Chatonet adviced me to do  - but after a while the problem 
still exists.
After a drag of text from one field to another the cursor still shows an 
Ibeam over buttons and an arrow over fields.

This must be a bug.......



>>>Great

>>>Thanks Eric

>>>Problem solved.



>>Hi Jan,

>>This happens sometimes in the IDE.
>>Try to add a handler like the following into an appropriate object
>>(field, card, etc. depending if you lock the cursor by yourself
>>elsewhere):

>>on mouseMove
   >>unlock cursor
>>end mouseMove

>>Hope this helps.
>>Best Regards from Paris,

>>Eric Chatonet.

>>Le 31 oct. 05 ? 18:28, Jan S?lid a ?crit :

> Hi
>
> I have two fields. In the first one I have placed an empty "On  dragEnd" 
> event because I don't want the user to change the field  only drag.
>
> In the second one I have an "Acceptdrop" event together with an "On 
> dragDrop" event because I want to check the dragdata before I place  it in 
> the field.
>
> Something like this:
>
> In script of Field 1:
>
>     On dragEnd
>         -- nothing in here
>     end dragEnd
>
> In script of field 2:
>
>     on dragEnter
>        set the acceptDrop to true
>     end dragEnter
>
>     on dragDrop
>        --- check the dragdata
>        --- place it in the field if it is allowed
>     end dragDrop
>
>
> Now here is the strange behaviour:
>
> After the text is dragged and placed into the second field. The  cursor 
> behaves in a reversed order. When entering a field the  cursor becomes an 
> arrow.
> When entering a button the cursor becomes an iBeam. The opposite of normal 
> behaviour I would say. This happens only in the event of  dragging from 
> field 1 to field 2.
> I have tried to create two new fields with no script in them. And dragging 
> between these two do not make the same strange behaviour.
>
> Have my computer got a fever? what is happening?




From AbilityForms at aol.com  Tue Nov  1 21:12:10 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 21:12:10 EST
Subject: I guess I stumped everyone. :(
Message-ID: <242.202fa9.30997a7a@aol.com>

Hi Again,

Yesterday I asked:   "How do I change the default size of the inspector, 
error & script windows?
I'm on Mac OSX." I haven't received an answer yet. Surely someone must know 
the answer.

Joe,
Orlando, Florida


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Tue Nov  1 22:29:41 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 19:29:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Ann] ArcadeEngine 1.5 released
In-Reply-To: <EE3D1472-4B16-11DA-A25F-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511011927390.20706-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Malte,

On Tue, 1 Nov 2005, Malte Brill wrote:

> I would be very interested to see what you come up with. Would you mind
> to keep me posted?

Not at all!  Btw, is there an edu/bulk pricing that would apply? (given
that I'm also asking the students to buy Rev...)

Usually, we all chip-in for 10-packs and split the costs.

Judy



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Tue Nov  1 22:32:32 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 19:32:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Tab Panel Question
In-Reply-To: <4367DB1D.000003.02132@CX287463-A>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511011930220.20706-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Hi Roark,

In addition to Eric's excellent tutorial, I also have a little stack on
this subject:

Using RevOnline, go to "User Spaces" --> Category = Education --> "Tabs in
Revolution".

HTH,

Judy

On Tue, 1 Nov 2005, Roark wrote:

> My question so far is how to work with the Tab Panel.




From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Nov  1 22:39:31 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 21:39:31 -0600
Subject: Geometry Question
In-Reply-To: <4368048B.5050401@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF88FE42.23DB0%scott@tactilemedia.com>	<2F3C01A4-B55F-470D-A551-53E9B782DDBC@writeme.com>	<89B779D0-AFC6-40B5-B1E4-B4BCA6242C84@openpartnership.net>	<4364ECF8.7010700@fourthworld.com>	<4E81A04C-D516-42A9-BF0E-084645DD44D9@openpartnership.net>	<43651C11.7050107@fourthworld.com>	<7F3F56DB-7C6C-49D7-8A18-B07F3745EF79@openpartnership.net>
	<4368048B.5050401@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <436834F3.50500@chipp.com>



Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Chipp's split the difference on this approach with the best of both 
> worlds: the altLayoutManager plugin automates the generation of code for 
> a resizeStack handler, leaving you free to tweak it directly at will.
> <http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginDownload/Downloads.htm>

Thanks Richard for remembering :-)

Currently my implementation does a couple of things GM doesn't. But, be 
forewarned, it doesn't work on multiple card stacks. Just single card 
stacks (GUI's). I need to fix that and will as soon as I have *that* 
need ;-)

It allows you to position objects/behaviors for different platforms. So, 
if you want a button sized differently on the Mac from the PC, it's 
simple. It also allows you to create 'separator' pane controls, which 
allow you to resize components within a window by dragging a separator 
control. There's other stuff there too.

best,

Chipp



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Nov  1 22:57:13 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 21:57:13 -0600
Subject: I guess I stumped everyone. :(
In-Reply-To: <242.202fa9.30997a7a@aol.com>
References: <242.202fa9.30997a7a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <43683919.4050704@hyperactivesw.com>

AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
> Hi Again,
> 
> Yesterday I asked:   "How do I change the default size of the inspector, 
> error & script windows?
> I'm on Mac OSX." I haven't received an answer yet. Surely someone must know 
> the answer.

All of these windows have a resize box at the lower right and can be 
dragged out to any size you want. The inspector will resize itself 
dynamically depending on the pane you are viewing, but the size remains 
approximately proportional to the size you set.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov  2 00:17:45 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 21:17:45 -0800
Subject: I guess I stumped everyone. :(
In-Reply-To: <242.202fa9.30997a7a@aol.com>
References: <242.202fa9.30997a7a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <0E9C1815-5203-4478-800F-49AE7EF73414@danshafer.com>

You cannot change the default size of the Inspector or the error  
windows. Script editor remembers the last size and location used to  
edit scripts, so you can change its default size by changing it in  
any stack. I think you have to save the stack to make this work, though.


On Nov 1, 2005, at 6:12 PM, AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:

> Hi Again,
>
> Yesterday I asked:   "How do I change the default size of the  
> inspector,
> error & script windows?
> I'm on Mac OSX." I haven't received an answer yet. Surely someone  
> must know
> the answer.
>
> Joe,
> Orlando, Florida
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From tjframe at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 01:18:18 2005
From: tjframe at gmail.com (TJ Frame)
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 23:18:18 -0700
Subject: ARGH! 2.6.1 keeps crashing
In-Reply-To: <20051101091240.85281.qmail@web60515.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051101082959.274BB824ECB@mail.runrev.com>
	<20051101091240.85281.qmail@web60515.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7348a9e80511012218q19e0dfd7laeec825ddb8f6b2a@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the input guys.. but no luck. I reinstalled Rev and it still
keeps acting funny... If another program acted up it might help, but all the
others are rock solid... hmm.. But I guess it must be something fishy on my
machine if no one else is struggling.
 I've taken to compulsive saving, which seems to be my only choice at this
point...
 Perhaps with the next version things will mysteriously revert back to being
stable again! :)

 On 11/1/05, Jan Schenkel <janschenkel at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> --- MisterX <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:
> > Jan
> >
> > The script editor may have many faults including the
> > undo which can't undo a
> > return insertion! But I haven't experienced a single
> > crash with it.
> >
> > Any plugins that you are using that could cause
> > this?
> >
> > I don't use any and even with the TAOO architecture
> > and events on top I
> > don't
> > experience any crashes in the script editor...
> >
> > cheers
> > Xavier
> >
>
> Hi Xavier,
>
> I was only running the altPlugin collection at the
> time -- but none of these Transcript-based libraries
> should cause an 'illegal read' exception at OS level.
>
> Like I said, I wasn't able to reproduce it, and have
> been running fine since that single crash, so I'm not
> sure of the cause (menu shortcuts? undo stack?).
>
> Of course, if I ever find a reproducible error, I'll
> bugzilla it -- and given Rev's stability, that's a big
> 'IF'.
>
> Jan Schenkel.
>
> Quartam - Tools for Revolution
> <http://www.quartam.com>
>
> =====
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."
> (La Rochefoucauld)
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Nov  2 02:56:12 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 01:56:12 -0600
Subject: ARGH! 2.6.1 keeps crashing
In-Reply-To: <7348a9e80511012218q19e0dfd7laeec825ddb8f6b2a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20051101082959.274BB824ECB@mail.runrev.com>	<20051101091240.85281.qmail@web60515.mail.yahoo.com>
	<7348a9e80511012218q19e0dfd7laeec825ddb8f6b2a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4368711C.9000407@chipp.com>

TJ,

Can you describe a recipe for 'acting funny', so that we can check it on 
our systems?



TJ Frame wrote:
> Thanks for the input guys.. but no luck. I reinstalled Rev and it still
> keeps acting funny...



From david at dvglasgow.wanadoo.co.uk  Wed Nov  2 02:56:24 2005
From: david at dvglasgow.wanadoo.co.uk (David Glasgow)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 07:56:24 +0000
Subject: hiliting all instances of lines containing one chunk of a clicked
	line
In-Reply-To: <20051031180004.779D0824FCB@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051031180004.779D0824FCB@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <aee6248344a81584bd107b06e0427ca8@dvglasgow.wanadoo.co.uk>

Revvers,

I was struggling to do this, so searched the Googleable archive of this 
list.

I found exactly what I wanted, generously detailed (as usual) by 
Richard Gaskin from a thread in  January 2003.

And the neophyte then benefiting from his advice?

Me.  :-(((

It goes in but it won't *stay* in.

I think this script is running in my head.

Global gusefulscripts, GAge, Galcohol, Gparenthood
repeat until itsallover="true"
	put (Age+alcohol+parenthood) into timpairment
	repeat for j = 1 to timpairment
		get the number of lines in gusefulscripts
		delete line random(it) of gusefulscritpts
	end repeat
end repeat



Best Wishes,

David Glasgow

http://www.i-psych.co.uk




From tjframe at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 03:30:19 2005
From: tjframe at gmail.com (TJ Frame)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 01:30:19 -0700
Subject: ARGH! 2.6.1 keeps crashing
In-Reply-To: <4368711C.9000407@chipp.com>
References: <20051101082959.274BB824ECB@mail.runrev.com>
	<20051101091240.85281.qmail@web60515.mail.yahoo.com>
	<7348a9e80511012218q19e0dfd7laeec825ddb8f6b2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<4368711C.9000407@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <7348a9e80511020030v4bdfcb35j513c2ca3018970d3@mail.gmail.com>

Chipp,
 The acting funny part is just the random crash/vanishing stuff that I
mentioned in my first post. I can't really replicate it, which is so
frustrating. It happens someimes when editng a script or occasinally when
clicking on an object. The one thing I can say is that it always hapens
after actively doing something like hitting return or clicking, never while
running a script or just sitting idle.
  If say I'm typing in a script and hit return and it dies, then when I
restart and edit the script in the same way everything will be fine. Then in
perhaps an hour or less something else will cause it to die. But I can
toggle over to Photoshop and use it all day long without a crash, then
toggle back to Rev, and its just a matter of time until "bye bye Rev"
   The editor does act a little buggy from time to time, but then again so
did 2.6 Perfect example is that sometimes right clicking on an object im
editing fails to cause the pop-up menu to appear. Or else the script editor
stops scrolling with the wheel until I double-right click the white blank
area in the script editor. But those are little things that have been around
as long as I've used Rev, so no big deal. The vanishing crash is a new
2.6.1thing (for me at least)

 On 11/2/05, Chipp Walters <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:
>
> TJ,
>
> Can you describe a recipe for 'acting funny', so that we can check it on
> our systems?
>
>
>
> TJ Frame wrote:
> > Thanks for the input guys.. but no luck. I reinstalled Rev and it still
> > keeps acting funny...
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Wed Nov  2 03:55:00 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 09:55:00 +0100
Subject: ARGH! 2.6.1 keeps crashing
In-Reply-To: <7348a9e80511020030v4bdfcb35j513c2ca3018970d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OF9DFBC760.8E7E78F0-ONC12570AD.002F0A84-C12570AD.0030FB23@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi TJ

Are you using any plugins?

> I was only running the altPlugin collection at the
> time -- but none of these Transcript-based libraries
> should cause an 'illegal read' exception at OS level.

What OS? If windows, send me the eventviewer's event information, eventid, 
etc... I can look this up for you.
Unfortunately, and as far as i know, the MC.exe engine doesn't leave a 
trace of it's errors when it crashes
which doesn't help anyone find the bug...

Have you checked the session log file in the rev folders?

There you can find stuff like:


        executing internal 10:18:14 AM
Type    Chunk: can't find stack
Object  revBackScript
Line    if the mainStack of stack l is not among the lines of tStacksList 
then put l & cr after tFinal
Hint    button id 1041 of card id 1002 of stack "D:/app/Revolution 
2.6.1/components/global environment/revlibrary.rev"

(note this session log file is deleted at startup... - very very stupid 
feature (bugzillaed) but good to know - a quick batch or
applet can save it for you before you launch rev).

Also this "could" be a hidden breakpoint's problem that is not entirely 
resolved in 2.6.1 - which so far has not crashed my
session once! - Good job on that fix revTeam!

Check out the breakpoints Navigator on MonsieurX.com to find those and 
clear them...
But that's a wild guess.

--

Last but not least, looking at the crashes in the bugzilla list, could 
give you some hints. Seems there's a few crashes
reported for 2.6.x... 

If you want, send me a stack sampler that crashes automatically and i'll 
confirm it ;)

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 02/11/2005 09:30:19:

> Chipp,
>  The acting funny part is just the random crash/vanishing stuff that I
> mentioned in my first post. I can't really replicate it, which is so
> frustrating. It happens someimes when editng a script or occasinally 
when
> clicking on an object. The one thing I can say is that it always hapens
> after actively doing something like hitting return or clicking, never 
while
> running a script or just sitting idle.
>   If say I'm typing in a script and hit return and it dies, then when I
> restart and edit the script in the same way everything will be fine. 
Then in
> perhaps an hour or less something else will cause it to die. But I can
> toggle over to Photoshop and use it all day long without a crash, then
> toggle back to Rev, and its just a matter of time until "bye bye Rev"
>    The editor does act a little buggy from time to time, but then again 
so
> did 2.6 Perfect example is that sometimes right clicking on an object im
> editing fails to cause the pop-up menu to appear. Or else the script 
editor
> stops scrolling with the wheel until I double-right click the white 
blank
> area in the script editor. But those are little things that have been 
around
> as long as I've used Rev, so no big deal. The vanishing crash is a new
> 2.6.1thing (for me at least)
> 
>  On 11/2/05, Chipp Walters <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:
> >
> > TJ,
> >
> > Can you describe a recipe for 'acting funny', so that we can check it 
on
> > our systems?
> >
> >
> >
> > TJ Frame wrote:
> > > Thanks for the input guys.. but no luck. I reinstalled Rev and it 
still
> > > keeps acting funny...
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
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recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
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The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
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not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
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END OF DISCLAIMER


From rev at armbase.com  Wed Nov  2 05:10:15 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 10:10:15 +0000
Subject: Tab Panel Question
In-Reply-To: <4367DB1D.000003.02132@CX287463-A>
References: <4367DB1D.000003.02132@CX287463-A>
Message-ID: <20051102101015.6uk3nv7ago88ckgc@webmail.armbase.com>

Quoting Roark <roark at vcwp.com>:

> Hey everybody!!

Hi Roark
>
> I'm new to everything revolution.  Correct me please if I'm not supposed to
> be asking these sorts of questions here or if there's a better place to ask
> them.
>

Her eis the best place. Everyone is very helpfull from my experience.

> My question so far is how to work with the Tab Panel.  Seems like a dumb
> question.  When I add one to the development canvas (as it were), I'm so far
> unable to figure out how to add objects to the page that only appear under a
> specific tab.

Yep I thought the same. I thought Tab's wer ereally hard until I got-it. IE I
saw a post that showed how to do it (may have been Judy's stack).

As soon as you get it.....you will think WOW!!!!! It is that easy? :-)

I have a simple stack as an example on my other computer. If you don't get ti
sorted I can send it to you.

All the best
Bob

>
> For example, after adding a Tab Panel, I will add a button by either
> dragging and dropping or cutting and pasting, hoping it will be assigned to
> the first tab of the tab panel.
>
> But when I later drag the Tab Panel (reposition it on the page), the button
> in my example is left behind.
>
> I'm sure it's very simple.  Can someone help me by pointing out what is
> probably fairly obvious, but that I continue to fail to understand??
>
> Thanks in advance!!
> Roark
> (ex Visual Basic and ex Real Basic user)
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>





From revolution at derbrill.de  Wed Nov  2 05:16:17 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 11:16:17 +0100
Subject: [Ann] ArcadeEngine 1.5 released
In-Reply-To: <20051102072530.9AEAF825153@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B4D1FE91-4B89-11DA-A45D-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Hi Judy,

> Btw, is there an edu/bulk pricing that would apply? (given
> that I'm also asking the students to buy Rev...)
>
> Usually, we all chip-in for 10-packs and split the costs.

We will make a regular 10 user license available through the store and 
are working on an additional edu discount, in the meantime please 
contact support at runrev.com

All the best,

Malte


---
ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes
http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine
http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum 



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Wed Nov  2 08:10:02 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 13:10:02 +0000
Subject: CustomKeys again!
In-Reply-To: <B4D1FE91-4B89-11DA-A45D-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
References: <B4D1FE91-4B89-11DA-A45D-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <a05210600bf8e66f72b5c@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

I have a stack with a Single Button on it and the following script:

on mouseUp
local myKeys

put the customKeys of this stack into myKeys
end mouseUp

When I look at the array it's empty, however if I look at the Stack 
via the Stack Inspector in the IDE it shows loads of customKeys!!!!!

Which one is telling lies?????

Thanks a lot
Dave


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Wed Nov  2 08:13:07 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 13:13:07 +0000
Subject: Globals Question
In-Reply-To: <B4D1FE91-4B89-11DA-A45D-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
References: <B4D1FE91-4B89-11DA-A45D-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <a05210601bf8e6b392b85@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

I'm a bit confused over the Scope of Global Symbols. If I have a stack with:

global gGlobal

defined outside of all handlers

and the same in a card or control script BUT in the same Stack, is 
the same "gGlobal" used in both places?

Thanks a lot
Dave




From AbilityForms at aol.com  Wed Nov  2 08:18:27 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 08:18:27 EST
Subject: I guess I stumped everyone. :(
Message-ID: <15.50814225.309a16a3@aol.com>

 In a message dated 11/1/05 10:57:24 PM, jacque at hyperactivesw.com writes:



> AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
> > Hi Again,
> >
> > Yesterday I asked:?? "How do I change the default size of the inspector,
> > error & script windows?
> > I'm on Mac OSX." I haven't received an answer yet. Surely someone must 
> know
> > the answer.
> 
> All of these windows have a resize box at the lower right and can be
> dragged out to any size you want. The inspector will resize itself
> dynamically depending on the pane you are viewing, but the size remains
> approximately proportional to the size you set.
> 
> 

Thanks for responding Jacque,

As I said before in other questions to the group I've apparently suffered 
some sort of corruption. These three windows all open to the full screen every 
time. It doesn't matter that I resize and save them. They still open full screen 
size the next time. Someone told me how to fix the preference panel and that 
worked. I was just hoping I could fix the other three panels in a similar 
fashion. If these windows are in a stack I could address the problems with an 
openCard or openStack handler.

Joe,
Orlando, Florida


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Wed Nov  2 08:38:02 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 14:38:02 +0100
Subject: Globals Question
In-Reply-To: <a05210601bf8e6b392b85@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <OFA3A732ED.0FF4B7D7-ONC12570AD.004ACC57-C12570AD.004AE4C9@deutsche-boerse.com>

Dave,

global gGlobal

on handler
  etc...

the gGlobal is available to all handlers "below" the global declaration.

however in 

on handler 
  global gGlobal

end handler

the gGlobal is only available in that handler...

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 02/11/2005 14:13:07:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm a bit confused over the Scope of Global Symbols. If I have a stack 
with:
> 
> global gGlobal
> 
> defined outside of all handlers
> 
> and the same in a card or control script BUT in the same Stack, is 
> the same "gGlobal" used in both places?
> 
> Thanks a lot
> Dave
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Wed Nov  2 09:04:37 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 14:04:37 +0000
Subject: Going MAD with customKeys!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <15.50814225.309a16a3@aol.com>
References: <15.50814225.309a16a3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a05210603bf8e72b7ee2f@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi All,

I have a stack that is used as a library stack. I use it to hold data 
for in arrays which are stored in Custom Properties.

I create the arrays like this:

put "XXX" into theName


function SetArray(theName,theArray)
put "cp_PrefsArray_" & theName" into myArrayName
set the customProperties[myArrayName] of me to theArray
end SetArray

function GetArray(theName)
put "cp_PrefsArray_" & theName" into myArrayName
put the customProperties[myArrayName] of me to myArray
return myArray
end SetArray

Also in the Stack Script:

on libraryStack
local myArray

put "XXXX" into myArray("KeyX")
get SetArray("Name",myArray)
set the customKeys of me to empty
put GetArray("Name") into myArray --Check if the above worked
end libraryStack

But myArray is not "empty" it contains garbage from ages ago!

Can anyone please just tell me how to clear all the customProperties 
in a stack?

Thanks a lot
All the Best
Dave


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov  2 09:05:56 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 15:05:56 +0100
Subject: Globals Question
In-Reply-To: <a05210601bf8e6b392b85@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <B4D1FE91-4B89-11DA-A45D-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
	<a05210601bf8e6b392b85@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <04D98432-C50E-4D87-AD47-499AD77EC0D4@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Dave,

By definition, the value of any global is available everywhere in any  
open stack/script/handler/function where this global is declared.
All current global variables names are returned by the globalNames  
property.
Have a look at the globals pane of the message box.
For instance, try this in any stack:

on mouseUp
   put any item of the globalNames into tGlobal
   do "global" && tGlobal -- global declaration
   do "put" && tGlobal && "into tValue" -- global value
   put tGlobal & colon & cr & tValue -- result into the msg
end mouseUp


Le 2 nov. 05 ? 14:13, David Burgun a ?crit :

> I'm a bit confused over the Scope of Global Symbols. If I have a  
> stack with:
>
> global gGlobal
>
> defined outside of all handlers
>
> and the same in a card or control script BUT in the same Stack, is  
> the same "gGlobal" used in both places?


Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Wed Nov  2 09:12:39 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 15:12:39 +0100
Subject: Going MAD with customKeys!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <a05210603bf8e72b7ee2f@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <OF5AF2C10D.83C8EB9F-ONC12570AD.004D7053-C12570AD.004E1013@deutsche-boerse.com>

David,

Before i went mad, i was already crazy ;)

The best trick i can give you is this:

put the myprops["keyname"] of mystack into x
x is not an array.

put the myprops of mystack into x

x is an array...

BUT, you cannot store an array into the myprops["keyname"] of mystack 

only into the myprops of mystack 

simply because Rev can't [yet] embed arrays into arrays...

hope that helps...

I TRIED TO PASTE YOUR SCRIPT INTO mc BUT IT REFUSED TO GET THE RIGHT 
CLIPBOARD 
despite trying from notes to ultraedit to mc 3 times and it didn't go into 
mc... 


cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 02/11/2005 15:04:37:

> Hi All,
> 
> I have a stack that is used as a library stack. I use it to hold data 
> for in arrays which are stored in Custom Properties.
> 
> I create the arrays like this:
> 
> put "XXX" into theName
> 
> 
> function SetArray(theName,theArray)
> put "cp_PrefsArray_" & theName" into myArrayName
> set the customProperties[myArrayName] of me to theArray
> end SetArray
> 
> function GetArray(theName)
> put "cp_PrefsArray_" & theName" into myArrayName
> put the customProperties[myArrayName] of me to myArray
> return myArray
> end SetArray
> 
> Also in the Stack Script:
> 
> on libraryStack
> local myArray
> 
> put "XXXX" into myArray("KeyX")
> get SetArray("Name",myArray)
> set the customKeys of me to empty
> put GetArray("Name") into myArray --Check if the above worked
> end libraryStack
> 
> But myArray is not "empty" it contains garbage from ages ago!
> 
> Can anyone please just tell me how to clear all the customProperties 
> in a stack?
> 
> Thanks a lot
> All the Best
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Wed Nov  2 09:20:25 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 14:20:25 +0000
Subject: Globals Question
In-Reply-To: <04D98432-C50E-4D87-AD47-499AD77EC0D4@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <B4D1FE91-4B89-11DA-A45D-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
	<a05210601bf8e6b392b85@[192.168.0.101]>
	<04D98432-C50E-4D87-AD47-499AD77EC0D4@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <a05210604bf8e792971ee@[192.168.0.101]>

>Hi Dave,
>
>By definition, the value of any global is available everywhere in 
>any open stack/script/handler/function where this global is declared.

This is what I don't understand. If I define gGlobal in the stack 
script and also define it in the card script, are there one or two 
gGlobals's created?

If I don't define gGlobal in the card script, then I get an error 
since I have variable checking turned on.

Thanks a lot
Dave



>All current global variables names are returned by the globalNames property.
>Have a look at the globals pane of the message box.
>For instance, try this in any stack:
>
>on mouseUp
>   put any item of the globalNames into tGlobal
>   do "global" && tGlobal -- global declaration
>   do "put" && tGlobal && "into tValue" -- global value
>   put tGlobal & colon & cr & tValue -- result into the msg
>end mouseUp
>
>
>Le 2 nov. 05 ? 14:13, David Burgun a ?crit :
>
>>I'm a bit confused over the Scope of Global Symbols. If I have a stack with:
>>
>>global gGlobal
>>
>>defined outside of all handlers
>>
>>and the same in a card or control script BUT in the same Stack, is 
>>the same "gGlobal" used in both places?
>
>
>Best Regards from Paris,
>
>Eric Chatonet.
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>So Smart Software
>
>For institutions, companies and associations
>Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
>Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
>Free plugins and tutorials on my website
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
>Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
>Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
>Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Wed Nov  2 09:26:09 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 14:26:09 +0000
Subject: Going MAD with customKeys!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <OF5AF2C10D.83C8EB9F-ONC12570AD.004D7053-C12570AD.004E1013@deutsche-boerse
	.com>
References: <OF5AF2C10D.83C8EB9F-ONC12570AD.004D7053-C12570AD.004E1013@deutsche-boerse
	.com>
Message-ID: <a05210605bf8e7c3c2aa0@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

Sorry I don't don't get it. I have a number of Arrays stored as:


"cp_PrefsArray_NAMEA"
"cp_PrefsArray_NAMEB"
"cp_PrefsArray_NAMEC"

But I don't know the names (NAMEA,NAMEB,NAMEC) in the script. I just 
want to empty them all and start again. I thought that setting 
customKeys to empty should do this - according to the docs anyway. Is 
this correct? If not how can I do this?

Thanks a lot
Dave


>David,
>
>Before i went mad, i was already crazy ;)
>
>The best trick i can give you is this:
>
>put the myprops["keyname"] of mystack into x
>x is not an array.
>
>put the myprops of mystack into x
>
>x is an array...
>
>BUT, you cannot store an array into the myprops["keyname"] of mystack
>
>only into the myprops of mystack
>
>simply because Rev can't [yet] embed arrays into arrays...
>
>hope that helps...
>
>I TRIED TO PASTE YOUR SCRIPT INTO mc BUT IT REFUSED TO GET THE RIGHT
>CLIPBOARD
>despite trying from notes to ultraedit to mc 3 times and it didn't go into
>mc...
>
>
>cheers
>Xavier
>
>use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 02/11/2005 15:04:37:
>
>>  Hi All,
>>
>>  I have a stack that is used as a library stack. I use it to hold data
>>  for in arrays which are stored in Custom Properties.
>>
>>  I create the arrays like this:
>>
>>  put "XXX" into theName
>>
>>
>>  function SetArray(theName,theArray)
>>  put "cp_PrefsArray_" & theName" into myArrayName
>>  set the customProperties[myArrayName] of me to theArray
>>  end SetArray
>>
>>  function GetArray(theName)
>  > put "cp_PrefsArray_" & theName" into myArrayName
>  > put the customProperties[myArrayName] of me to myArray
>>  return myArray
>>  end SetArray
>>
>>  Also in the Stack Script:
>>
>>  on libraryStack
>>  local myArray
>>
>>  put "XXXX" into myArray("KeyX")
>>  get SetArray("Name",myArray)
>>  set the customKeys of me to empty
>>  put GetArray("Name") into myArray --Check if the above worked
>>  end libraryStack
>>
>>  But myArray is not "empty" it contains garbage from ages ago!
>>
>>  Can anyone please just tell me how to clear all the customProperties
>>  in a stack?
>>
>>  Thanks a lot
>>  All the Best
>>  Dave
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  use-revolution mailing list
>>  use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>  subscription preferences:
>>  http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
>-----------------------------------------
>To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
>recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
>standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.
>
>Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
>
>IMPORTANT MESSAGE
>
>Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
>International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
>this message.
>
>The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
>legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
>not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
>any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
>prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
>those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
>states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
>its affiliates or subsidiaries.
>
>END OF DISCLAIMER
>_______________________________________________
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>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov  2 09:30:15 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 15:30:15 +0100
Subject: Globals Question
In-Reply-To: <a05210604bf8e792971ee@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <B4D1FE91-4B89-11DA-A45D-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
	<a05210601bf8e6b392b85@[192.168.0.101]>
	<04D98432-C50E-4D87-AD47-499AD77EC0D4@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<a05210604bf8e792971ee@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <9995D50B-212A-4D3B-8301-814B775EECCA@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi again,

Le 2 nov. 05 ? 15:20, David Burgun a ?crit :

> This is what I don't understand. If I define gGlobal in the stack
> script and also define it in the card script, are there one or two
> gGlobals's created?

Only one global with the same name :-)
Try this:

In any stack:

on mouseUp
   global gMyTest
   put "Dave" into gMyTest
end mouseUp

In another stack:

on mouseUp
   global gMyTest
   put gMyTest -- Dave into the msg ;-)
end mouseUp

> If I don't define gGlobal in the card script, then I get an error
> since I have variable checking turned on.

Normal ;-)
If a global is not declared, Rev assumes it is a local variable that  
can have another value...

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Wed Nov  2 09:34:57 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 14:34:57 +0000
Subject: Globals Question
In-Reply-To: <9995D50B-212A-4D3B-8301-814B775EECCA@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <B4D1FE91-4B89-11DA-A45D-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
	<a05210601bf8e6b392b85@[192.168.0.101]>
	<04D98432-C50E-4D87-AD47-499AD77EC0D4@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<a05210604bf8e792971ee@[192.168.0.101]>
	<9995D50B-212A-4D3B-8301-814B775EECCA@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <a05210606bf8e7eacbd73@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

That's what I thought should in the case, thanks a lot, I have a 
weird bug and I was wondering if the Value in the card 
"just-happened" to the be the same in the stack most of the time!

Thnaks again
Dave


>Hi again,
>
>Le 2 nov. 05 ? 15:20, David Burgun a ?crit :
>
>>This is what I don't understand. If I define gGlobal in the stack
>>script and also define it in the card script, are there one or two
>>gGlobals's created?
>
>Only one global with the same name :-)
>Try this:
>
>In any stack:
>
>on mouseUp
>   global gMyTest
>   put "Dave" into gMyTest
>end mouseUp
>
>In another stack:
>
>on mouseUp
>   global gMyTest
>   put gMyTest -- Dave into the msg ;-)
>end mouseUp
>
>>If I don't define gGlobal in the card script, then I get an error
>>since I have variable checking turned on.
>
>Normal ;-)
>If a global is not declared, Rev assumes it is a local variable that 
>can have another value...
>
>Best Regards from Paris,
>
>Eric Chatonet.
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>So Smart Software
>
>For institutions, companies and associations
>Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
>Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
>Free plugins and tutorials on my website
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
>Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
>Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
>Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From rjb at robelko.com  Wed Nov  2 09:15:53 2005
From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 15:15:53 +0100
Subject: Globals Question
In-Reply-To: <a05210601bf8e6b392b85@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <B4D1FE91-4B89-11DA-A45D-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
	<a05210601bf8e6b392b85@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <a06110408bf8e7944c456@[141.89.100.174]>

>Hi,
>
>I'm a bit confused over the Scope of Global Symbols. If I have a stack with:
>
>global gGlobal
>
>defined outside of all handlers
>
>and the same in a card or control script BUT in the same Stack, is 
>the same "gGlobal" used in both places?
>
>Thanks a lot
>Dave

There are two aspects to scope that affect you in this case.

1. A global defined outside of all handlers (I presume you mean above 
all handlers) is available to all handlers within a given object, be 
it a button, card, or stack. I think you are clear about this.

2. If the same global variable is defined in multiple objects, be it 
a button, card, or stack, it is the same global even if the objects 
are in different stacks. Globals are environment-wide global. This is 
true regardless whether a global is defined outside of all handlers 
or inside a specific handler.

Robert Brenstein


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Wed Nov  2 09:41:55 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 15:41:55 +0100
Subject: Going MAD with customKeys!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <a05210605bf8e7c3c2aa0@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <OFCC42803C.2F1A63F4-ONC12570AD.00505656-C12570AD.0050BDDD@deutsche-boerse.com>

David,

on mouseUp
  put 1 into test["a"]
put 2 into test["b"]
put 3 into test["c"]
delete local test["b"]
put the keys of test
end mouseUp

delete local (or global) array[arraykey]

or (the following which applies for custompropertysets but not arrays

get the keys of the array of control 1
delete line 1 to 3 of it
set the keys of array of control 1 to it

Language inconsistency? maybe...

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 02/11/2005 15:26:09:

> Hi,
> 
> Sorry I don't don't get it. I have a number of Arrays stored as:
> 
> 
> "cp_PrefsArray_NAMEA"
> "cp_PrefsArray_NAMEB"
> "cp_PrefsArray_NAMEC"
> 
> But I don't know the names (NAMEA,NAMEB,NAMEC) in the script. I just 
> want to empty them all and start again. I thought that setting 
> customKeys to empty should do this - according to the docs anyway. Is 
> this correct? If not how can I do this?
> 
> Thanks a lot
> Dave
> 
> 
> >David,
> >
> >Before i went mad, i was already crazy ;)
> >
> >The best trick i can give you is this:
> >
> >put the myprops["keyname"] of mystack into x
> >x is not an array.
> >
> >put the myprops of mystack into x
> >
> >x is an array...
> >
> >BUT, you cannot store an array into the myprops["keyname"] of mystack
> >
> >only into the myprops of mystack
> >
> >simply because Rev can't [yet] embed arrays into arrays...
> >
> >hope that helps...
> >
> >I TRIED TO PASTE YOUR SCRIPT INTO mc BUT IT REFUSED TO GET THE RIGHT
> >CLIPBOARD
> >despite trying from notes to ultraedit to mc 3 times and it didn't go 
into
> >mc...
> >
> >
> >cheers
> >Xavier
> >
> >use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 02/11/2005 15:04:37:
> >
> >>  Hi All,
> >>
> >>  I have a stack that is used as a library stack. I use it to hold 
data
> >>  for in arrays which are stored in Custom Properties.
> >>
> >>  I create the arrays like this:
> >>
> >>  put "XXX" into theName
> >>
> >>
> >>  function SetArray(theName,theArray)
> >>  put "cp_PrefsArray_" & theName" into myArrayName
> >>  set the customProperties[myArrayName] of me to theArray
> >>  end SetArray
> >>
> >>  function GetArray(theName)
> >  > put "cp_PrefsArray_" & theName" into myArrayName
> >  > put the customProperties[myArrayName] of me to myArray
> >>  return myArray
> >>  end SetArray
> >>
> >>  Also in the Stack Script:
> >>
> >>  on libraryStack
> >>  local myArray
> >>
> >>  put "XXXX" into myArray("KeyX")
> >>  get SetArray("Name",myArray)
> >>  set the customKeys of me to empty
> >>  put GetArray("Name") into myArray --Check if the above worked
> >>  end libraryStack
> >>
> >>  But myArray is not "empty" it contains garbage from ages ago!
> >>
> >>  Can anyone please just tell me how to clear all the customProperties
> >>  in a stack?
> >>
> >>  Thanks a lot
> >>  All the Best
> >>  Dave
> >>  _______________________________________________
> >>  use-revolution mailing list
> >>  use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>  subscription preferences:
> >>  http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> >
> >
> >-----------------------------------------
> >To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
> >recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
> >standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.
> >
> >Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
> >
> >IMPORTANT MESSAGE
> >
> >Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
> >International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
> >this message.
> >
> >The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
> >legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
> >not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
> >any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
> >prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
> >those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
> >states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
> >its affiliates or subsidiaries.
> >
> >END OF DISCLAIMER
> >_______________________________________________
> >use-revolution mailing list
> >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> >subscription preferences:
> >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov  2 09:46:23 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 15:46:23 +0100
Subject: Going MAD with customKeys!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <a05210605bf8e7c3c2aa0@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <OF5AF2C10D.83C8EB9F-ONC12570AD.004D7053-C12570AD.004E1013@deutsche-boerse
	.com> <a05210605bf8e7c3c2aa0@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <DF106BC4-679D-4838-B2CE-DD7D543A3C42@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Dave,

Assuming that NAMEA is a variable and cp_PrefsArray_NAMEA a custom  
property set:
To delete this specific custom property set:
do "set the cp_PrefsArray_" & NAMEA && "of this stack to empty"

To delete all custom property sets you created:
set the customPropertySets of this stack to empty

To delete standard custom keys:
set the customPropertySet of this stack to empty
set the customKeys of this stack to empty

Seems that your trouble comes from the fact that the custom property  
sets you create have not to be handled in the same way that the  
standard custom keys ;-)

Le 2 nov. 05 ? 15:26, David Burgun a ?crit :

> "cp_PrefsArray_NAMEA"
> "cp_PrefsArray_NAMEB"
> "cp_PrefsArray_NAMEC"
>
> But I don't know the names (NAMEA,NAMEB,NAMEC) in the script. I  
> just want to empty them all and start again. I thought that setting  
> customKeys to empty should do this - according to the docs anyway.  
> Is this correct? If not how can I do this?

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From jhurley at infostations.com  Wed Nov  2 09:55:51 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 06:55:51 -0800
Subject: ANN Sukodu puzzles--again
In-Reply-To: <20051102072530.6E9F782514C@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051102072530.6E9F782514C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230902bf8e754aec36@[69.19.167.219]>

Our local paper has begun to carry a daily Sukodu puzzle. A friend 
challenged me to solve one that he had trouble with. I couldn't find 
a solution; I kept running into situations where I could find no 
possible entry without guessing.

To work on it I loaded up Alex Tweedly wonderful Sukodu Assistant. 
But I  needed something that would determine in there was a unique 
one-stage solution, i.e. a solution in which there was always at 
least one cell  with a determined digit, given the present 
configuration.

Well, one thing lead to another and Sukodu--see below--resulted. It 
uses Alex's very nice interface. The drop down menu is an excellent 
way to enter this limited assortment of discrete data into a field.

The stack also does an analysis of the puzzle after each step and 
will display in each cell the possible entries. It also looks at the 
constraints on rows, columns, and blocks, to determine what's 
possible in these components--applying the restriction that each row, 
column and block are to contain all nine digits. This analysis is 
displayed in separate fields.

If you choose the mode in which this info is displayed, the solution 
to any puzzle will be trivial. But I found it a very useful tutorial 
to run through a few of the harder puzzles this way. There were 
strategies available which I had never guessed at. (You can toggle 
the display of this analysis on and off with a right-click or 
control-click. You can turn any  entry green with a shift-click. This 
is useful if you have to make a guess. Then, if  you run into a 
contradiction at some point down the road, you can undo back to the 
green entry.)

When the puzzle is first loaded, the stack uses this analysis of 
rows, columns and blocks to run through the puzzle (with the screen 
locked) step by step to obtain a solution--if there is a one-stage 
solution. With this solution available, it is then possible to choose 
a mode of play which will not allow an incorrect entry into a 
cell--comforting.

I have tested this in Mac OS X, but not thoroughly in Windows. I had 
one stinker of a problem with the Window version. It read a menuPick 
handler in a button which I had commented out, and did not pass the 
menuPick message to the card. Took a while to find this bug.

Turned out that the puzzle my friend had given me was missing a 
number. With friends like this----

The stack (and file folder) are at:

  http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/SudokuFolder.zip

Keep the file folder with the stack. The folder contains a few 
additional puzzles and a place to save your own.

I may never do one of these Sudoku puzzles again.

Jim



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Wed Nov  2 09:59:18 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 14:59:18 +0000
Subject: Going MAD with customKeys!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <OFCC42803C.2F1A63F4-ONC12570AD.00505656-C12570AD.0050BDDD@deutsche-boerse
	.com>
References: <OFCC42803C.2F1A63F4-ONC12570AD.00505656-C12570AD.0050BDDD@deutsche-boerse
	.com>
Message-ID: <a05210607bf8e820185cf@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi Xavier,

The problem is that I have:

the cp_PrefsArray_NameA of Stack "CommonStack"
the cp_PrefsArray_NameB of Stack "CommonStack"
the cp_PrefsArray_NameC of Stack "CommonStack"
etc. etc. etc.

(NameA, NameB, NameC can by anything the calling stack(s) chose to name them)

But I don't know the names "cp_PrefsArray_NameA", 
"cp_PrefsArray_NameB ", "cp_PrefsArray_NameC" in the script of 
"CommonStack", so I can't do this:

set the cp_PrefsArray_NameA of stack "CommonStack" to empty

or

set customProperties["cp_PrefsArray_NameA") of stack "CommonStack" to empty

If I do this:

put the customKeys of stack "CommonStack" into myKeys

then myKeys is empty, otherwise I could have got a list of the names.

IOW, all the arrays are created over a period of time while the App 
is running as and when they are needed. There is no way (at the 
moment) to know which array have been created. I just want to kill 
them all!

Is there something I am misunerstanding here?

Thanks for your help and sorry if I am being dumb!
All the Best
Dave

>David,
>
>on mouseUp
>   put 1 into test["a"]
>put 2 into test["b"]
>put 3 into test["c"]
>delete local test["b"]
>put the keys of test
>end mouseUp
>
>delete local (or global) array[arraykey]
>
>or (the following which applies for custompropertysets but not arrays
>
>get the keys of the array of control 1
>delete line 1 to 3 of it
>set the keys of array of control 1 to it
>
>Language inconsistency? maybe...
>
>cheers
>Xavier
>
>use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 02/11/2005 15:26:09:
>
>>  Hi,
>>
>>  Sorry I don't don't get it. I have a number of Arrays stored as:
>>
>>
>>  "cp_PrefsArray_NAMEA"
>>  "cp_PrefsArray_NAMEB"
>>  "cp_PrefsArray_NAMEC"
>>
>>  But I don't know the names (NAMEA,NAMEB,NAMEC) in the script. I just
>>  want to empty them all and start again. I thought that setting
>>  customKeys to empty should do this - according to the docs anyway. Is
>>  this correct? If not how can I do this?
>>
>>  Thanks a lot
>>  Dave
>>
>>
>>  >David,
>>  >
>>  >Before i went mad, i was already crazy ;)
>>  >
>>  >The best trick i can give you is this:
>>  >
>>  >put the myprops["keyname"] of mystack into x
>>  >x is not an array.
>>  >
>>  >put the myprops of mystack into x
>>  >
>>  >x is an array...
>>  >
>>  >BUT, you cannot store an array into the myprops["keyname"] of mystack
>>  >
>>  >only into the myprops of mystack
>>  >
>>  >simply because Rev can't [yet] embed arrays into arrays...
>>  >
>>  >hope that helps...
>>  >
>>  >I TRIED TO PASTE YOUR SCRIPT INTO mc BUT IT REFUSED TO GET THE RIGHT
>>  >CLIPBOARD
>>  >despite trying from notes to ultraedit to mc 3 times and it didn't go
>into
>>  >mc...
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >cheers
>>  >Xavier
>>  >
>>  >use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 02/11/2005 15:04:37:
>>  >
>>  >>  Hi All,
>>  >>
>>  >>  I have a stack that is used as a library stack. I use it to hold
>data
>>  >>  for in arrays which are stored in Custom Properties.
>>  >>
>>  >>  I create the arrays like this:
>>  >>
>>  >>  put "XXX" into theName
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>  function SetArray(theName,theArray)
>>  >>  put "cp_PrefsArray_" & theName" into myArrayName
>>  >>  set the customProperties[myArrayName] of me to theArray
>>  >>  end SetArray
>>  >>
>>  >>  function GetArray(theName)
>>  >  > put "cp_PrefsArray_" & theName" into myArrayName
>>  >  > put the customProperties[myArrayName] of me to myArray
>>  >>  return myArray
>>  >>  end SetArray
>>  >>
>>  >>  Also in the Stack Script:
>>  >>
>>  >>  on libraryStack
>>  >>  local myArray
>>  >>
>>  >>  put "XXXX" into myArray("KeyX")
>>  >>  get SetArray("Name",myArray)
>>  >>  set the customKeys of me to empty
>>  >>  put GetArray("Name") into myArray --Check if the above worked
>>  >>  end libraryStack
>>  >>
>>  >>  But myArray is not "empty" it contains garbage from ages ago!
>>  >>
>>  >>  Can anyone please just tell me how to clear all the customProperties
>>  >>  in a stack?
>>  >>
>>  >>  Thanks a lot
>>  >>  All the Best
>>  >>  Dave
>>  >>  _______________________________________________
>>  >>  use-revolution mailing list
>>  >>  use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>  > >>  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>  >>  subscription preferences:
>>  >>  http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >-----------------------------------------
>>  >To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
>>  >recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
>>  >standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.
>>  >
>>  >Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
>>  >
>>  >IMPORTANT MESSAGE
>>  >
>>  >Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
>>  >International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
>>  >this message.
>>  >
>>  >The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
>>  >legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
>>  >not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
>>  >any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
>>  >prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
>>  >those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
>>  >states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
>>  >its affiliates or subsidiaries.
>>  >
>>  >END OF DISCLAIMER
>>  >_______________________________________________
>>  >use-revolution mailing list
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>>  >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>  >subscription preferences:
>>  >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
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>>  subscription preferences:
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>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
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From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Wed Nov  2 10:03:41 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 15:03:41 +0000
Subject: Going MAD with customKeys!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <DF106BC4-679D-4838-B2CE-DD7D543A3C42@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <OF5AF2C10D.83C8EB9F-ONC12570AD.004D7053-C12570AD.004E1013@deutsche-boerse
	.com> <a05210605bf8e7c3c2aa0@[192.168.0.101]>
	<DF106BC4-679D-4838-B2CE-DD7D543A3C42@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <a05210608bf8e850039f3@[192.168.0.101]>

>Hi Dave,
>
>Assuming that NAMEA is a variable and cp_PrefsArray_NAMEA a custom 
>property set:
>To delete this specific custom property set:
>do "set the cp_PrefsArray_" & NAMEA && "of this stack to empty"
>
>To delete all custom property sets you created:
>set the customPropertySets of this stack to empty
>
>To delete standard custom keys:
>set the customPropertySet of this stack to empty
>set the customKeys of this stack to empty
>
>Seems that your trouble comes from the fact that the custom property 
>sets you create have not to be handled in the same way that the 
>standard custom keys ;-)

Ok, thanks a lot for this. I am doing something that could be handled 
in a better way? This was the only way I could find that would allow 
me to create Array's dynamic arrays and store them as 
customProperties.

I don't mind chaning the way I do this if there is a better way.

Thanks a lot
Dave


>
>Le 2 nov. 05 ? 15:26, David Burgun a ?crit :
>
>>"cp_PrefsArray_NAMEA"
>>"cp_PrefsArray_NAMEB"
>>"cp_PrefsArray_NAMEC"
>>
>>But I don't know the names (NAMEA,NAMEB,NAMEC) in the script. I 
>>just want to empty them all and start again. I thought that setting 
>>customKeys to empty should do this - according to the docs anyway. 
>>Is this correct? If not how can I do this?
>
>Best Regards from Paris,
>
>Eric Chatonet.
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>So Smart Software
>
>For institutions, companies and associations
>Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
>Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
>Free plugins and tutorials on my website
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
>Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
>Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
>Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>
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>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
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From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Nov  2 10:33:43 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 10:33:43 -0500
Subject: Globals Question
In-Reply-To: <a05210604bf8e792971ee@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <B4D1FE91-4B89-11DA-A45D-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
	<a05210601bf8e6b392b85@[192.168.0.101]>
	<04D98432-C50E-4D87-AD47-499AD77EC0D4@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<a05210604bf8e792971ee@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <946fdbc59f6f83ac1d238b8fbcbf96a0@rpsystems.net>


On Nov 2, 2005, at 9:20 AM, David Burgun wrote:

> This is what I don't understand. If I define gGlobal in the stack
> script and also define it in the card script, are there one or two
> gGlobals's created?

Once a variable is declared as global, there should be only a single 
variable with that name. However as you've seen, you can cause problems 
in your project by not identifying the variable as global within each 
script which uses it. As long as you declare the global in each script 
that accesses the variable, it will always reference the same stored 
data. If you do not declare it as such, the script will create a new 
local variable with the same name, which does not reference the 
global's data. (This would generally be a bad thing to do.)
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  1 02:20:20 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 23:20:20 -0800
Subject: counting runs
In-Reply-To: <EE1433BA-3CA1-4C1E-83AF-7AA022F5B439@unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <BF8C5734.2FDBC%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

On 10/31/05 4:22 PM, "Jason Tangen" <j.tangen at unsw.edu.au> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I'm trying to solve a seemingly simple problem and I could use some
> help. A coin flip will come out "Heads" or "Tails" and will produce,
> for example, the following series for 20 flips:
> 
> T,T,H,T,T,H,H,H,T,T,H,T,H,H,H,T,H,T,H,T
> 
> I need to count up the number events for a particular run.

<long reply>
This example is a rather involved routine, but it shows several things that
will help you analyze the flipping results. (Sorry about the pun, but could
not resist).  
<slappinghand force = ?strong?>6 times</slappinghand>

This solution does not use Arrays.  It is 142 lines (not going for shortest
solution here)
It very quickly generates a report of statistics, and 6 graphic
representations
It could be worth your time to play with it, then again you might like the
arrays better.
This code includes a breakpoint at the end so that it will automatically
stop and you can study the variables that it builds.

Hope this is helpful to you and others.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

----------- start copying here ------------------
on headsUpReporting  --10.31.05
  --prepares (1) final table of statistics
  --        + (6) graphic representations of the results
  --
  --PAUSE at the last breakpoint to see all the variables
  --  then decide how you want to present the results
  --
  --the commas are redundant for most of the work,
  --     but, conveniently, we will use them later for graphics
  --
  --since working with arrays may be confusing to you and others
  -- I offer this solution which DOES NOT use arrays, but rather
  --            repeat loops, words, and lines
  --  (sorry about the rogue format of the variables.. old, old habit)

  
  --variation of Mark Smith's earlier reply
  repeat 10000
    --take heart, couple of seconds and it is all done, Rev is fast
    put any item of "H,T" after originalStrr -- just to generate a sample
list
    put comma after originalStrr   --we want the commas here
  end repeat
  if last char of originalStrr is comma then delete last char of
originalStrr
  --
  -- this is a cross-tab technique vs an array accumulator
  --
  put originalStrr into headsOnly
  put originalStrr into tailsOnly
  replace comma with empty in headsOnly
  replace comma with empty in tailsOnly
  put the number of characters in (headsOnly) into flipsTotal --a simple
tally
  
  replace "T" with space in headsOnly --strip t's (hey.. I'm in Vegas)
  replace "H" with space in tailsOnly
  
  put the number of words in headsOnly into maxx
  repeat with x = 1 to maxx
    get number of chars in word x of headsOnly
    add 1 to item 2 of line (it) of finalTable
    put 0 into item 3 of line (it) of finalTable
    put (it) into item 1 of line (it) of finalTable --1st col of table
  end repeat
  put maxx into numRunsHeads --a simple tally
  
  put the number of words in tailsOnly into maxx
  repeat with x = 1 to maxx
    get number of chars in word x of tailsOnly
    add 1 to item 3 of line (it) of finalTable
    put (it) into item 1 of line (it) of finalTable
  end repeat
  put maxx into numRunsTails --a simple talley
  
  get headsOnly
  replace space with empty in it
  put the number of chars in (it) into numHeads --a simple tally
  get tailsOnly
  replace space with empty in it
  put the number of chars in (it) into numTails --a simple tally
  
  put 0 into maxHRun
  put 0 into maxTRun
  put the number of lines in finalTable into maxx
  --fill in the table so it is easier to read
  repeat with x = 1 to maxx
    if item 1 of line x of finalTable < 1 then put x into item 1 of line x
of finalTable
    if item 2 of line x of finalTable < 1 then put 0 into item 2 of line x
of finalTable
    if item 3 of line x of finalTable < 1 then put 0 into item 3 of line x
of finalTable
  end repeat
  
  --get the longest run of heads & tails for the stats
  repeat with x = maxx down to 1
    if maxHRun < 1 then
      if item 2 of line x of finalTable > 0 then
        put item 1 of line x of finalTable into maxHRun
      end if
    end if
    if maxTRun < 1 then
      if item 3 of line x of finalTable > 0 then
        put item 1 of line x of finalTable into maxTRun
      end if
    end if
    --next test to see if both the max lengths have been found
    if maxHRun > 0 and maxTRun > 0 then exit repeat
  end repeat
  
  --build the report
  put "Report of " & flipsTotal & " Coin Flips" into finalReport
  put "  on " & the short date & "  at  " & the short time after finalReport
  put return & "Total Heads = " & numHeads & "  Num Runs = " & numRunsHeads
after finalReport
  put return & "Total Tails = " & numTails & "  Num Runs = " & numRunsTails
after finalReport
  put return & "Max length Heads = " & maxHRun & "  Avg Run = " &
numHeads/numRunsHeads after finalReport
  put return & "Max length Tails = " & maxTRun & "  Avg Run = " &
numTails/numRunsTails after finalReport
  put return & return & "Len, Heads, Tails Runs" & return & finalTable after
finalReport
  replace comma with space&space in finalReport
  --visual ONE
  put headsOnly into graphHeadsInSequence
  put tailsOnly into graphTailsInSequence
  replace space with return in graphHeadsInSequence
  replace space with return in graphTailsInSequence
  put graphHeadsInSequence into graphHeadsByLength
  sort graphHeadsByLength descending
  put graphTailsInSequence into graphTailsByLength
  sort graphTailsByLength descending
  
  
  --visual TWO
  put originalStrr into graphBothInSequence
  replace "H,T" with ("H" & return & "T") in graphBothInSequence
  replace "T,H" with ("T" & return & "H") in graphBothInSequence
  replace comma with empty in graphBothInSequence
  
  --visual THREE
  put graphBothInSequence into graphAsTwoGroups
  sort lines graphAsTwoGroups descending
  get ""
  --------------- output ---------------
  --make them easy to find in variable watcher
  put finalReport into a_finalReport
  put graphHeadsInSequence into a_graphHeadsInSequence
  put graphTailsInSequence into a_graphTailsInSequence
  put graphHeadsByLength into a_graphHeadsByLength
  put graphTailsByLength into a_graphTailsByLength
  put graphBothInSequence into a_graphBothInSequence
  put graphAsTwoGroups into a_graphAsTwoGroupsByLength
  --
  --now view the following in variable watcher
  --  a_finalReport
  --
  --visual ONE  scroll to view
  --  a_graphHeadsInSequence, a_graphHeadsByLength
  --  a_graphTailsInSequence, a_graphTailsByLength
  --
  --visual TWO  scroll to view
  --  a_graphBothInSequence
  --
  --visual THREE  scroll to view
  --  a_graphAsTwoGroupsByLength
  ------------------------------------------
  breakpoint  -- PAUSE HERE and read the section above
  
end headsUpReporting
----------- stop copying here ------------------



On 10/31/05 4:22 PM, "Jason Tangen" <j.tangen at unsw.edu.au> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I'm trying to solve a seemingly simple problem and I could use some
> help. A coin flip will come out "Heads" or "Tails" and will produce,
> for example, the following series for 20 flips:
> 
> T,T,H,T,T,H,H,H,T,T,H,T,H,H,H,T,H,T,H,T
> 
> I need to count up the number events for a particular run.  For example,
> 
> Heads x 3 = 2
> Heads x 2 = 0
> Heads x 1 = 4
> Tails x 1 = 4
> Tails x 2 = 3
> Tails x 3 = 0
> 
> I need to account for runs up to 60 (rather than 3 above) for
> hundreds of flips (rather than 20 above).
> 
> I've been using a very clumsy multiple if-then solution to date, but
> this quickly becomes difficult with many runs.
> 
> Can someone point me in the right direction?
> 
> Cheers,
> Jason
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov  2 10:55:05 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 16:55:05 +0100
Subject: question: how much info fits in a field?
In-Reply-To: <44F082B7-E46A-4239-A0A4-651773C93CBB@mac.com>
References: <44F082B7-E46A-4239-A0A4-651773C93CBB@mac.com>
Message-ID: <9DE1945B-1FFF-4E49-967C-186BE9695DA2@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Andre,

The maximum total characters in a field is unlimited (except  
regarding to the memory needed)
But a line can't exceed 65,536 characters.

Le 31 oct. 05 ? 22:00, Andre Garzia a ?crit :

> I am using a field to record TCP Flow on a given port on my system  
> by redirecting tcpflow app using appleEvents which makes much  
> easier to debug CGI apps since all traffic is inside a nice field,  
> the problem is, how much info can I dump into a field, I am loggin  
> all traffic, so after couple hours browsing, I might have tons of  
> megs, so what is the maximum ammount a field can handle before I  
> need to dump the log to a file?

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Wed Nov  2 11:02:54 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Wouter)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 17:02:54 +0100
Subject: question: how much info fits in a field?
In-Reply-To: <44F082B7-E46A-4239-A0A4-651773C93CBB@mac.com>
References: <44F082B7-E46A-4239-A0A4-651773C93CBB@mac.com>
Message-ID: <75B654F0-66C6-419E-A17D-B868228D173D@scarlet.be>

Hi,

Have a look in the docs -> topics with filter "limits"

(using a field with these amounts can make it/rev quite unwieldy)

Greetings,
Wouter



On 31 Oct 2005, at 22:00, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Folks,
>
> I am using a field to record TCP Flow on a given port on my system  
> by redirecting tcpflow app using appleEvents which makes much  
> easier to debug CGI apps since all traffic is inside a nice field,  
> the problem is, how much info can I dump into a field, I am loggin  
> all traffic, so after couple hours browsing, I might have tons of  
> megs, so what is the maximum ammount a field can handle before I  
> need to dump the log to a file?
>
> Cheers
> andre
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Nov  2 11:38:26 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 10:38:26 -0600
Subject: question: how much info fits in a field?
In-Reply-To: <44F082B7-E46A-4239-A0A4-651773C93CBB@mac.com>
References: <44F082B7-E46A-4239-A0A4-651773C93CBB@mac.com>
Message-ID: <4368EB82.8000500@hyperactivesw.com>

Andre Garzia wrote:
> Folks,
> 
> I am using a field to record TCP Flow on a given port on my system by  
> redirecting tcpflow app using appleEvents which makes much easier to  
> debug CGI apps since all traffic is inside a nice field, the problem  
> is, how much info can I dump into a field, I am loggin all traffic,  so 
> after couple hours browsing, I might have tons of megs, so what is  the 
> maximum ammount a field can handle before I need to dump the log  to a 
> file?

The maximum is about 4 gigs. But long before that, stack performance can 
slow dramatically. I'd dump the text much earlier.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Nov  2 11:46:31 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 10:46:31 -0600
Subject: I guess I stumped everyone. :(
In-Reply-To: <15.50814225.309a16a3@aol.com>
References: <15.50814225.309a16a3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4368ED67.9070805@hyperactivesw.com>

AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
>  In a message dated 11/1/05 10:57:24 PM, jacque at hyperactivesw.com writes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>Hi Again,
>>>
>>>Yesterday I asked:   "How do I change the default size of the inspector,
>>>error & script windows?
>>>I'm on Mac OSX." I haven't received an answer yet. Surely someone must 
>>
>>know
>>
>>>the answer.
>>
>>All of these windows have a resize box at the lower right and can be
>>dragged out to any size you want. The inspector will resize itself
>>dynamically depending on the pane you are viewing, but the size remains
>>approximately proportional to the size you set.
>>
>>
> 
> 
> Thanks for responding Jacque,
> 
> As I said before in other questions to the group I've apparently suffered 
> some sort of corruption. These three windows all open to the full screen every 
> time. It doesn't matter that I resize and save them. They still open full screen 
> size the next time. Someone told me how to fix the preference panel and that 
> worked. I was just hoping I could fix the other three panels in a similar 
> fashion. If these windows are in a stack I could address the problems with an 
> openCard or openStack handler.

I suspect the reason you aren't getting many answers is because no one 
else has seen this. I know I never have. You may have already tried it, 
but here is what I would do:

Throw away your entire Rev installation. Reinstall from a 
newly-downloaded copy off the web site.

Do not install any extra plugins; leave the installation in its virgin 
state. Create a new stack with a single button. Select the button and 
open the inspector and check its size.

In the button, add this script:

on mouseup
   bloogle
end mouseup

When you click the button it will generate an error. See if the error 
dialog is the correct size.

If these windows are normal size (and if they aren't, I haven't a clue 
why not,) then the resizing problem is probably related to a specific 
stack you are working on, or a script in a stack in use (i.e., a plugin) 
or a backscript. I can't imagine any other reason for this bizarre 
behavior. Something is resetting the default window sizes.

Corruption is highly unlikely (and very rare in Revolution) and of the 
handful of corrupted stacks I've seen, they always crash or refuse to 
open. Occasionally a bad image import will cause a problem, but that 
also usually crashes.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Nov  2 11:48:29 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 10:48:29 -0600
Subject: ARGH! 2.6.1 keeps crashing
In-Reply-To: <OF9DFBC760.8E7E78F0-ONC12570AD.002F0A84-C12570AD.0030FB23@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OF9DFBC760.8E7E78F0-ONC12570AD.002F0A84-C12570AD.0030FB23@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <4368EDDD.7030809@hyperactivesw.com>

xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:
> Hi TJ
> 
> Are you using any plugins?
> 
> 
>>I was only running the altPlugin collection at the
>>time -- but none of these Transcript-based libraries
>>should cause an 'illegal read' exception at OS level.
> 
> 
> What OS? If windows, send me the eventviewer's event information, eventid, 
> etc... I can look this up for you.
> Unfortunately, and as far as i know, the MC.exe engine doesn't leave a 
> trace of it's errors when it crashes
> which doesn't help anyone find the bug...

Mac OS X logs all crash errors here:

~/Library/Logs/CrashReporter/Revolution.crash.log

You can either read this file in a text editor, or open the Console 
utilty and read it in there.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From garretthylltun at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 11:49:05 2005
From: garretthylltun at gmail.com (Garrett R. Hylltun)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 08:49:05 -0800
Subject: How to limit field to one line?
In-Reply-To: <20051102101015.6uk3nv7ago88ckgc@webmail.armbase.com>
References: <4367DB1D.000003.02132@CX287463-A>
	<20051102101015.6uk3nv7ago88ckgc@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <20051102084905.05495518.garretthylltun@gmail.com>

Greetings,

Can anyone explain to me how to limit a field to only one line, and to intercept the return key from within that field?

Any info is appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
-Garrett


From shaosean at hotmail.com  Wed Nov  2 11:50:18 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 11:50:18 -0500
Subject: Trying to return results from a query run on the database
In-Reply-To: <20051102072530.6E9F782514C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-F16C2A66FFB92365C7BE553C36E0@phx.gbl>

Hi Fred, as Trevor pointed out the proper syntax for the revDataFromQuery 
function is:

revDataFromQuery([columnDelim],[rowDelim],databaseID,SQLQuery[,varsList])

You'll notice that the first two parameters are optional, but the "commas" 
are not, so you're command should be something like so:
  get revDataFromQuery(,, databaseID, "SELECT * FROM table")

or:
  put revDataFromQuery(TAB,, databaseID, "SELECT name, email FROM users 
WHERE id=1")

I found in the database project I've been working on, that there is no need 
for quotes around the field names, only needed around that data you are 
inserting or updating.

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to 
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement



From troy at rpsystems.net  Wed Nov  2 11:52:57 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 11:52:57 -0500
Subject: question: how much info fits in a field?
In-Reply-To: <44F082B7-E46A-4239-A0A4-651773C93CBB@mac.com>
References: <44F082B7-E46A-4239-A0A4-651773C93CBB@mac.com>
Message-ID: <8f40b0fb8c000ec6e28aaf986e90bef2@rpsystems.net>


On Oct 31, 2005, at 4:00 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> I am using a field to record TCP Flow on a given port on my system by 
> redirecting tcpflow app using appleEvents which makes much easier to 
> debug CGI apps since all traffic is inside a nice field, the problem 
> is, how much info can I dump into a field, I am loggin all traffic, so 
> after couple hours browsing, I might have tons of megs, so what is the 
> maximum ammount a field can handle before I need to dump the log to a 
> file?

Hi Andre,

I've been thinking about doing exactly the same thing with TCPFlow 
(making a Rev-based GUI for parts of it.) Is this something you can 
share (at least the apple events part)?

Thanks.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov  2 11:54:09 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 17:54:09 +0100
Subject: How to limit field to one line?
In-Reply-To: <20051102084905.05495518.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
References: <4367DB1D.000003.02132@CX287463-A>
	<20051102101015.6uk3nv7ago88ckgc@webmail.armbase.com>
	<20051102084905.05495518.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <15EA91E5-D191-4AE1-BD1C-6B867A43BD5A@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Garret,

In the script of your field:

on returnInField
   <statements>
end returnInField

This will prevent the return key to insert a carriage return and will  
execute your statements instead :-)

Le 2 nov. 05 ? 17:49, Garrett R. Hylltun a ?crit :

> Can anyone explain to me how to limit a field to only one line, and  
> to intercept the return key from within that field?

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
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From simplsol at aol.com  Wed Nov  2 12:06:30 2005
From: simplsol at aol.com (simplsol at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 12:06:30 -0500
Subject: question: how much info fits in a field?
In-Reply-To: <75B654F0-66C6-419E-A17D-B868228D173D@scarlet.be>
References: <44F082B7-E46A-4239-A0A4-651773C93CBB@mac.com>
	<75B654F0-66C6-419E-A17D-B868228D173D@scarlet.be>
Message-ID: <8C7ADE6E72F4684-1374-5F07@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>

On 32 bit systems is the 4G limit per each open stack or a total for 
all currently open stacks?
Paul Looney

-----Original Message-----
From: Wouter <wouter.abraham at scarlet.be>
To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 17:02:54 +0100
Subject: Re: question: how much info fits in a field?

   Hi,?
?
 Have a look in the docs -> topics with filter "limits"?
?
 (using a field with these amounts can make it/rev quite unwieldy)?
?
 Greetings,?
 Wouter?
?
 ?
 On 31 Oct 2005, at 22:00, Andre Garzia wrote:?
?
 > Folks,?
 >?
  > I am using a field to record TCP Flow on a given port on my system > 
by redirecting tcpflow app using appleEvents which makes much > easier 
to debug CGI apps since all traffic is inside a nice field, > the 
problem is, how much info can I dump into a field, I am loggin > all 
traffic, so after couple hours browsing, I might have tons of > megs, 
so what is the maximum ammount a field can handle before I > need to 
dump the log to a file??
 >?
 > Cheers?
 > andre?
 > _______________________________________________?
 > use-revolution mailing list?
 > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com?
  > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > 
subscription preferences:?
 > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution?
 >?
?
 _______________________________________________?
 use-revolution mailing list?
 use-revolution at lists.runrev.com?
  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:?
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution?

    


From garretthylltun at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 12:06:01 2005
From: garretthylltun at gmail.com (Garrett R. Hylltun)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 09:06:01 -0800
Subject: How to limit field to one line?
In-Reply-To: <15EA91E5-D191-4AE1-BD1C-6B867A43BD5A@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <4367DB1D.000003.02132@CX287463-A>
	<20051102101015.6uk3nv7ago88ckgc@webmail.armbase.com>
	<20051102084905.05495518.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
	<15EA91E5-D191-4AE1-BD1C-6B867A43BD5A@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <20051102090601.3735a5f7.garretthylltun@gmail.com>

On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 17:54:09 +0100
Eric Chatonet <eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com> wrote:

[snip]
> 
> Best Regards from Paris,
> 
> Eric Chatonet.

Merci beaucoup Eric :-)

-Garrett


From simplsol at aol.com  Wed Nov  2 12:13:02 2005
From: simplsol at aol.com (simplsol at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 12:13:02 -0500
Subject: question: how much info fits in a field?
In-Reply-To: <9DE1945B-1FFF-4E49-967C-186BE9695DA2@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <44F082B7-E46A-4239-A0A4-651773C93CBB@mac.com>
	<9DE1945B-1FFF-4E49-967C-186BE9695DA2@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <8C7ADE7D14A8DBE-1374-6022@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>

Does the limit of 65,536 characters per line in fields also apply to 
lines in data stored as custom properties?
Paul Looney

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Chatonet <eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com>
To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 16:55:05 +0100
Subject: Re: question: how much info fits in a field?

   Hi Andre,?
?
  The maximum total characters in a field is unlimited (except regarding 
to the memory needed)?
 But a line can't exceed 65,536 characters.?
?
 Le 31 oct. 05 ? 22:00, Andre Garzia a ?crit :?
?
  > I am using a field to record TCP Flow on a given port on my system > 
by redirecting tcpflow app using appleEvents which makes much > easier 
to debug CGI apps since all traffic is inside a nice field, > the 
problem is, how much info can I dump into a field, I am loggin > all 
traffic, so after couple hours browsing, I might have tons of > megs, 
so what is the maximum ammount a field can handle before I > need to 
dump the log to a file??
?
 Best Regards from Paris,?
?
 Eric Chatonet.?
 ----------------------------------------------------------------?
 So Smart Software?
?
 For institutions, companies and associations?
 Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.?
 Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch?
?
 Free plugins and tutorials on my website?
 ----------------------------------------------------------------?
 Web site http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/?
 Email eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/?
 Phone 33 (0)1 43 31 77 62?
 Mobile 33 (0)6 20 74 50 86?
 ----------------------------------------------------------------?
?
 _______________________________________________?
 use-revolution mailing list?
 use-revolution at lists.runrev.com?
  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:?
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution?

    


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Nov  2 12:16:40 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 18:16:40 +0100
Subject: question: how much info fits in a field?
In-Reply-To: <8C7ADE6E72F4684-1374-5F07@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20051102164153.50651824F02@mail.runrev.com>


are you storing your DVDs in your stacks? ;)

I wouldn?t do it with card's data. Anything above 10000 gets too slow.
I would use an sql or file based database preferably.
Or as many attest, the custom properties awaits you ;)
They are apparently limitless...

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> simplsol at aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 6:07 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: question: how much info fits in a field?
> 
> On 32 bit systems is the 4G limit per each open stack or a 
> total for all currently open stacks?
> Paul Looney
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wouter <wouter.abraham at scarlet.be>
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 17:02:54 +0100
> Subject: Re: question: how much info fits in a field?
> 
>    Hi,?
> ?
>  Have a look in the docs -> topics with filter "limits"?
> ?
>  (using a field with these amounts can make it/rev quite unwieldy)?
> ?
>  Greetings,
>  Wouter?
> ?
>  ?
>  On 31 Oct 2005, at 22:00, Andre Garzia wrote:?
> ?
>  > Folks,
>  >
>   > I am using a field to record TCP Flow on a given port on 
> my system > by redirecting tcpflow app using appleEvents 
> which makes much > easier to debug CGI apps since all traffic 
> is inside a nice field, > the problem is, how much info can I 
> dump into a field, I am loggin > all traffic, so after couple 
> hours browsing, I might have tons of > megs, so what is the 
> maximum ammount a field can handle before I > need to dump 
> the log to a file?  >  > Cheers  > andre  > 
> _______________________________________________
>  > use-revolution mailing list
>  > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>   > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and 
> manage your > subscription preferences:  > 
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>  >?
> ?
>  _______________________________________________
>  use-revolution mailing list
>  use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>   Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:  
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution?
> 
>     
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Nov  2 12:20:05 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 18:20:05 +0100
Subject: Going MAD with customKeys!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <a05210607bf8e820185cf@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <20051102164512.872C5824F6D@mail.runrev.com>

David,

I know dynamic scripting really well. As Eric showed, you can easily
generate your own globals.

Then again, do you really need to?

Let me explain with something im working on right now. A virtual-dynamic
global database - for the TAOO conscience...

if parray is an array and a global as well

You can also do this in rev:

put the props of control x into pArray
do anything to pArray[whatever]
set the props of control x to pArray

And now you magically have a newer custompropsets (Cpset Name = pArray,
[keys of parray] = custom props, each with their values.

You can delete the CPS before saving it back because if CPS don't work the
same as array keys (a pity). (to delete keys in a CPS, you have to delete
them in a list (in a variable) and set the cps of your whatever to the
variable - strange but it works...

And that does the trick, all your customkeys are set!
hope this helps - it sure saved me LOTs of time in HC and still does
today in keeping settings handy in a easy to use array structure...

> the cp_PrefsArray_NameA of Stack "CommonStack"
> the cp_PrefsArray_NameB of Stack "CommonStack"
> the cp_PrefsArray_NameC of Stack "CommonStack"

so put into plain english, you script translates simply to 
put whatever into thecp[PrefsArray,NameA]
...

set the cp of stack "commonstack" to thecp

and the venerable line

get the cp[this,orthat] of stack pstack

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> David Burgun
> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 3:59 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Going MAD with customKeys!!!!!
> 
> Hi Xavier,
> 
> The problem is that I have:
> 
> the cp_PrefsArray_NameA of Stack "CommonStack"
> the cp_PrefsArray_NameB of Stack "CommonStack"
> the cp_PrefsArray_NameC of Stack "CommonStack"
> etc. etc. etc.
> 
> (NameA, NameB, NameC can by anything the calling stack(s) 
> chose to name them)
> 
> But I don't know the names "cp_PrefsArray_NameA", 
> "cp_PrefsArray_NameB ", "cp_PrefsArray_NameC" in the script 
> of "CommonStack", so I can't do this:
> 
> set the cp_PrefsArray_NameA of stack "CommonStack" to empty
> 
> or
> 
> set customProperties["cp_PrefsArray_NameA") of stack 
> "CommonStack" to empty
> 
> If I do this:
> 
> put the customKeys of stack "CommonStack" into myKeys
> 
> then myKeys is empty, otherwise I could have got a list of the names.
> 
> IOW, all the arrays are created over a period of time while 
> the App is running as and when they are needed. There is no 
> way (at the
> moment) to know which array have been created. I just want to 
> kill them all!
> 
> Is there something I am misunerstanding here?
> 
> Thanks for your help and sorry if I am being dumb!
> All the Best
> Dave
> 
> >David,
> >
> >on mouseUp
> >   put 1 into test["a"]
> >put 2 into test["b"]
> >put 3 into test["c"]
> >delete local test["b"]
> >put the keys of test
> >end mouseUp
> >
> >delete local (or global) array[arraykey]
> >
> >or (the following which applies for custompropertysets but not arrays
> >
> >get the keys of the array of control 1
> >delete line 1 to 3 of it
> >set the keys of array of control 1 to it
> >
> >Language inconsistency? maybe...
> >
> >cheers
> >Xavier
> >
> >use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 02/11/2005 15:26:09:
> >
> >>  Hi,
> >>
> >>  Sorry I don't don't get it. I have a number of Arrays stored as:
> >>
> >>
> >>  "cp_PrefsArray_NAMEA"
> >>  "cp_PrefsArray_NAMEB"
> >>  "cp_PrefsArray_NAMEC"
> >>
> >>  But I don't know the names (NAMEA,NAMEB,NAMEC) in the 
> script. I just  
> >> want to empty them all and start again. I thought that setting  
> >> customKeys to empty should do this - according to the docs 
> anyway. Is  
> >> this correct? If not how can I do this?
> >>
> >>  Thanks a lot
> >>  Dave
> >>
> >>
> >>  >David,
> >>  >
> >>  >Before i went mad, i was already crazy ;)  >  >The best 
> trick i can 
> >> give you is this:
> >>  >
> >>  >put the myprops["keyname"] of mystack into x  >x is not an array.
> >>  >
> >>  >put the myprops of mystack into x
> >>  >
> >>  >x is an array...
> >>  >
> >>  >BUT, you cannot store an array into the myprops["keyname"] of 
> >> mystack  >  >only into the myprops of mystack  >  >simply 
> because Rev 
> >> can't [yet] embed arrays into arrays...
> >>  >
> >>  >hope that helps...
> >>  >
> >>  >I TRIED TO PASTE YOUR SCRIPT INTO mc BUT IT REFUSED TO GET THE 
> >> RIGHT  >CLIPBOARD  >despite trying from notes to ultraedit to mc 3 
> >> times and it didn't go
> >into
> >>  >mc...
> >>  >
> >>  >
> >>  >cheers
> >>  >Xavier
> >>  >
> >>  >use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 
> 02/11/2005 15:04:37:
> >>  >
> >>  >>  Hi All,
> >>  >>
> >>  >>  I have a stack that is used as a library stack. I use 
> it to hold
> >data
> >>  >>  for in arrays which are stored in Custom Properties.
> >>  >>
> >>  >>  I create the arrays like this:
> >>  >>
> >>  >>  put "XXX" into theName
> >>  >>
> >>  >>
> >>  >>  function SetArray(theName,theArray)  >>  put 
> "cp_PrefsArray_" & 
> >> theName" into myArrayName  >>  set the 
> customProperties[myArrayName] 
> >> of me to theArray  >>  end SetArray  >>  >>  function 
> >> GetArray(theName)  >  > put "cp_PrefsArray_" & theName" into 
> >> myArrayName  >  > put the customProperties[myArrayName] of me to 
> >> myArray  >>  return myArray  >>  end SetArray  >>  >>  Also in the 
> >> Stack Script:
> >>  >>
> >>  >>  on libraryStack
> >>  >>  local myArray
> >>  >>
> >>  >>  put "XXXX" into myArray("KeyX")
> >>  >>  get SetArray("Name",myArray)
> >>  >>  set the customKeys of me to empty  >>  put 
> GetArray("Name") into 
> >> myArray --Check if the above worked  >>  end libraryStack  >>  >>  
> >> But myArray is not "empty" it contains garbage from ages ago!
> >>  >>
> >>  >>  Can anyone please just tell me how to clear all the 
> >> customProperties  >>  in a stack?
> >>  >>
> >>  >>  Thanks a lot
> >>  >>  All the Best
> >>  >>  Dave
> >>  >>  _______________________________________________
> >>  >>  use-revolution mailing list
> >>  >>  use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >  > >>  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and 
> manage your
> >>  >>  subscription preferences:
> >>  >>  http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>  >
> >>  >
> >>  >
> >>  >-----------------------------------------
> >>  >To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has  
> >> >recently changed the email address format to conform with 
> industry  
> >> >standards. The new format is 
> 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.
> >>  >
> >>  >Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com  >  >IMPORTANT 
> MESSAGE  >  
> >> >Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream  
> >> >International does not accept legal responsibility for 
> the contents 
> >> of  >this message.
> >>  >
> >>  >The information contained in this e-mail is confidential 
> and may be  
> >> >legally privileged. It is intended solely for the 
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> >>  use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> >> subscription preferences:
> >>  http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >_______________________________________________
> >use-revolution mailing list
> >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
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From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Nov  2 12:17:15 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 09:17:15 -0800
Subject: How to limit field to one line?
In-Reply-To: <20051102084905.05495518.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
References: <4367DB1D.000003.02132@CX287463-A>	<20051102101015.6uk3nv7ago88ckgc@webmail.armbase.com>
	<20051102084905.05495518.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4368F49B.9060303@fourthworld.com>

Garrett R. Hylltun wrote:

 > Can anyone explain to me how to limit a field to only one line,
 > and to intercept the return key from within that field?

The text engine in Rev will accurately display lines up to 65,535 
characters.  Beyond that it seems the data is maintained, but display 
yields unpredictable results.

There is a similar limitation with the sort command:  on blocks of text 
in which all lines have 65,535 characters or fewer it works great, but 
beyond that it can yield odd results.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Nov  2 12:20:53 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 09:20:53 -0800
Subject: question: how much info fits in a field?
In-Reply-To: <8C7ADE7D14A8DBE-1374-6022@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>
References: <44F082B7-E46A-4239-A0A4-651773C93CBB@mac.com>	<9DE1945B-1FFF-4E49-967C-186BE9695DA2@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<8C7ADE7D14A8DBE-1374-6022@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4368F575.7050102@fourthworld.com>

simplsol at aol.com wrote:
> Does the limit of 65,536 characters per line in fields also apply to 
> lines in data stored as custom properties?

Only when using the sort command on that data.  Simply getting and 
putting data in and out of custom properties has no practical limit on 
size, dimension, or even type (it can be binary or text).  The 4GB limit 
on the size of a single custom property will not likely come into play 
in common use.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Wed Nov  2 12:23:24 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 12:23:24 -0500
Subject: I guess I stumped everyone. :(
In-Reply-To: <4368ED67.9070805@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <15.50814225.309a16a3@aol.com> <4368ED67.9070805@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <D914B23F-0D69-4864-87FD-4E54C9B3C459@conncoll.edu>


On Nov 2, 2005, at 11:46 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> In the button, add this script:
>
> on mouseup
>   bloogle
> end mouseup
>
> When you click the button it will generate an error. See if the  
> error dialog is the correct size.

-- and if it *doesn't* generate an error, you will have discovered a  
little-known but very useful Rev-internal command. (Hint: watch what  
happens to the person sitting next to you.)

Charles Hartman



From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Wed Nov  2 12:23:29 2005
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 12:23:29 -0500
Subject: How to limit field to one line?
Message-ID: <OFD0641304.8371CB85-ON852570AD.005F34ED@sealedair.com>

Garrett R. Hylltun wrote:

> Can anyone explain to me how to limit a field to only one line,

set the lockText of fld "x" to true

> and to intercept the return key from within that field?

-- Put this in the script of the field:
on returnInField
    -- do something (or nothing)
    answer "You pressed return"
end returnInField

Kind regards,
Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>




From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Wed Nov  2 12:31:59 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 09:31:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Ann] ArcadeEngine 1.5 released
In-Reply-To: <B4D1FE91-4B89-11DA-A45D-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511020931080.5535-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Hi Malte,

No hurry -- that class isn't until February.

Thanks!

Judy

On Wed, 2 Nov 2005, Malte Brill wrote:

> We will make a regular 10 user license available through the store and
> are working on an additional edu discount, in the meantime please
> contact support at runrev.com



From gregory.lypny at videotron.ca  Wed Nov  2 12:53:44 2005
From: gregory.lypny at videotron.ca (Gregory Lypny)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 12:53:44 -0500
Subject: Select All and Undo
Message-ID: <39C8DA8C-74A7-45C6-85F1-38E32EB786B4@videotron.ca>

Hello Everyone,

	Am I imagining things, or did there used to be a Select All menu  
item under the Edit menu of the Script Editor?  And, sigh, Undo still  
does not in most of the time in the newest version.

	Regards,

		Greg


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Nov  2 13:01:08 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 12:01:08 -0600
Subject: How to limit field to one line?
In-Reply-To: <20051102084905.05495518.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
References: <4367DB1D.000003.02132@CX287463-A>	<20051102101015.6uk3nv7ago88ckgc@webmail.armbase.com>
	<20051102084905.05495518.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4368FEE4.1020303@hyperactivesw.com>

Garrett R. Hylltun wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> Can anyone explain to me how to limit a field to only one line, and to intercept the return key from within that field?

Besides the returnInField handler that others have mentioned, you can 
also limit the amount of text without any scripting at all. Just set the 
height of the field so that only one line is showing, and then set the 
field's autoTab property to true. Whenever the user hits the return key, 
the selection will automatically move to the next field. You can control 
how many lines a field will accept by simply sizing its height to 
accomodate the number of lines you want to allow.

This does not trap the return key though. For that, you'd need the 
returnInField handler.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Nov  2 13:01:55 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 19:01:55 +0100
Subject: Select All and Undo
In-Reply-To: <39C8DA8C-74A7-45C6-85F1-38E32EB786B4@videotron.ca>
References: <39C8DA8C-74A7-45C6-85F1-38E32EB786B4@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <08E68464-D051-4F3E-9969-7AC394D388D6@major-k.de>

Hi Gregory,

> Hello Everyone,
>
> 	Am I imagining things, or did there used to be a Select All menu  
> item under the Edit menu of the Script Editor?

I just took a look and it is still there, Rev 2.6.1!

> And, sigh, Undo still does not in most of the time in the newest  
> version.

What exatcly cannot be "undone"? Works here of course ;-)

> 	Regards,
>
> 		Greg

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From kee at kagi.com  Wed Nov  2 13:02:34 2005
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 10:02:34 -0800
Subject: How to limit field to one line?
In-Reply-To: <20051102084905.05495518.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
References: <4367DB1D.000003.02132@CX287463-A>
	<20051102101015.6uk3nv7ago88ckgc@webmail.armbase.com>
	<20051102084905.05495518.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <276248B6-7836-4986-98BC-97D103FE0761@kagi.com>

returnInField in case someone enters a return in the field.
closeField in case someone pastes multiple lines of text into the field

on returnInField
   put line 1 of me into me
   answer "Only one line of text is allowed in this field." with :OK"
end returnInField

on closeField
   if return is in me then
     returnInField
   end if
   pass closefield
end closefield


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Nov  2 13:05:02 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 19:05:02 +0100
Subject: Select All and Undo
In-Reply-To: <08E68464-D051-4F3E-9969-7AC394D388D6@major-k.de>
References: <39C8DA8C-74A7-45C6-85F1-38E32EB786B4@videotron.ca>
	<08E68464-D051-4F3E-9969-7AC394D388D6@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <8FA85CD2-9564-4891-9B78-00B395DD1699@major-k.de>

Hi Gregory,

>> Hello Everyone,
>>
>> 	Am I imagining things, or did there used to be a Select All menu  
>> item under the Edit menu of the Script Editor?

So sorry, i totally overlooked "... of the Script Editor".

Yep, that's missing.

> ...
>> 	Regards,
>>
>> 		Greg
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> http://www.major-k.de
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Nov  2 13:06:55 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 12:06:55 -0600
Subject: I guess I stumped everyone. :(
In-Reply-To: <D914B23F-0D69-4864-87FD-4E54C9B3C459@conncoll.edu>
References: <15.50814225.309a16a3@aol.com> <4368ED67.9070805@hyperactivesw.com>
	<D914B23F-0D69-4864-87FD-4E54C9B3C459@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <4369003F.4070903@hyperactivesw.com>

Charles Hartman wrote:
 >
 > On Nov 2, 2005, at 11:46 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
 >
 >> In the button, add this script:
 >>
 >> on mouseup
 >>   bloogle
 >> end mouseup
 >>
 >> When you click the button it will generate an error. See if the  error
 >> dialog is the correct size.
 >
 >
 > -- and if it *doesn't* generate an error, you will have discovered a
 > little-known but very useful Rev-internal command. (Hint: watch what
 > happens to the person sitting next to you.)

Works on pets, too.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From simplsol at aol.com  Wed Nov  2 13:13:41 2005
From: simplsol at aol.com (simplsol at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 13:13:41 -0500
Subject: How to limit field to one line?
In-Reply-To: <4368F49B.9060303@fourthworld.com>
References: <4367DB1D.000003.02132@CX287463-A>	<20051102101015.6uk3nv7ago88ckgc@webmail.armbase.com>	<20051102084905.05495518.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
	<4368F49B.9060303@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <8C7ADF049E9C07A-1374-6A91@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>

Richard,
I'm finding that the display of data becomes unreadable somewhere 
around 40,000 characters (this may depend on the field width settings - 
I have not experimented with that - that many characters could not be 
shown on a a screen without scrolling anyway). And, as you said, sorts 
tend to make lines with large amounts of unreadable. However the data 
itself appears to be fine; usable but unreadable.
Paul Looney

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 09:17:15 -0800
Subject: Re: How to limit field to one line?

   Garrett R. Hylltun wrote:?
?
 > Can anyone explain to me how to limit a field to only one line,?
 > and to intercept the return key from within that field??
?
  The text engine in Rev will accurately display lines up to 65,535 
characters. Beyond that it seems the data is maintained, but display 
yields unpredictable results.?
?
  There is a similar limitation with the sort command: on blocks of text 
in which all lines have 65,535 characters or fewer it works great, but 
beyond that it can yield odd results.?
?
 --?
 ?Richard Gaskin?
 ?Managing Editor, revJournal?
 ?_______________________________________________________?
 ?Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com?
 _______________________________________________?
 use-revolution mailing list?
 use-revolution at lists.runrev.com?
  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:?
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution?

    


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Nov  2 14:15:50 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 11:15:50 -0800
Subject: How to limit field to one line?
In-Reply-To: <8C7ADF049E9C07A-1374-6A91@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>
References: <4367DB1D.000003.02132@CX287463-A>	<20051102101015.6uk3nv7ago88ckgc@webmail.armbase.com>	<20051102084905.05495518.garretthylltun@gmail.com>	<4368F49B.9060303@fourthworld.com>
	<8C7ADF049E9C07A-1374-6A91@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <43691066.5000901@fourthworld.com>

simplsol at aol.com wrote:
> Richard,
> I'm finding that the display of data becomes unreadable somewhere around 
> 40,000 characters (this may depend on the field width settings - I have 
> not experimented with that - that many characters could not be shown on 
> a a screen without scrolling anyway).

This seems to be OS-specific.  Like you, I found that there were 
troubles displaying more than 40,000 characters on OS X, but on XP I was 
able to put more than 50,000 characters before it had trouble displaying.

On neither OS X nor XP was I able to display 65,535 characters without 
difficulty.

I wonder what the determining factor is?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Nov  2 14:34:28 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 20:34:28 +0100
Subject: How to limit field to one line?
In-Reply-To: <43691066.5000901@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20051102185933.4391F82503B@mail.runrev.com>

most likely how rev displays characters in a font.
+ html or rtf involved. This is an old MC problem.

it's something to do with spacing. Maybe tabs.

Just be carefull how much data you copy paste to
rev from excel - it can crash it all. Once you
see text go haywire, save everything...

Pasting can be controlled, but well behaved stacks
have to watch out for this!

So for example, if you have more than 64Kbs in one
line in custom prop, don?t try to display it in 
the property palette... or put it in the msg...

HC used to shield us from this by stripping (without
warning) the extra information off the field. 

Rev is a bit lower level here ;)

cheers
Xavier 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Richard Gaskin
> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 8:16 PM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: How to limit field to one line?
> 
> simplsol at aol.com wrote:
> > Richard,
> > I'm finding that the display of data becomes unreadable somewhere 
> > around 40,000 characters (this may depend on the field 
> width settings 
> > - I have not experimented with that - that many characters 
> could not 
> > be shown on a a screen without scrolling anyway).
> 
> This seems to be OS-specific.  Like you, I found that there 
> were troubles displaying more than 40,000 characters on OS X, 
> but on XP I was able to put more than 50,000 characters 
> before it had trouble displaying.
> 
> On neither OS X nor XP was I able to display 65,535 
> characters without difficulty.
> 
> I wonder what the determining factor is?
> 
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Managing Editor, revJournal
>   _______________________________________________________
>   Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Nov  2 14:59:08 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 19:59:08 +0000
Subject: Select All and Undo
In-Reply-To: <08E68464-D051-4F3E-9969-7AC394D388D6@major-k.de>
References: <39C8DA8C-74A7-45C6-85F1-38E32EB786B4@videotron.ca>
	<08E68464-D051-4F3E-9969-7AC394D388D6@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <43691A8C.8060004@tweedly.net>

Klaus Major wrote:

>
>> And, sigh, Undo still does not in most of the time in the newest  
>> version.
>
>
> What exatcly cannot be "undone"? Works here of course ;-)
>
I find most things can't be undone in the script editor.

1. Start a new mainstack, put in a button and edit its script

add a line, so it looks like

on mouseUp
    put 1 into a
end mouseUp

then position the cursor in the middle of the line, say just after the '1'

Hit Return
Can't be undone.

2. Then type
repeat with i = 1 to 20
and hit return.
Can't be undone.

3. Put the cursor at the start of the "end repeat" line and hit 
Backspace a couple of times until it joins back to the previous line.
Can't be undone.

4. Note :  your cursor is now just after the '0' in 20

Hit Return.
You now have
   repeat with i = 1 to 20end repeat
  end repeat

Sigh :-(
btw - that can't be undone either.

5.Highlight and delete the spurious "end repeat" at the end of the 
repeat line.
Yeah !! that *can* be undone.

6. OK - to make sure we have tidied up, select and delete the entire script.
type in again
on mouseUp
   repeat with i = 1 to 20

  end repeat
end mouseUp

put your cursor after the "mouse" and before "Up" in the "end mouseUp" line.
type "dd" - then Undo (yeah - that worked too)
Undo again (to re-insert those two characters), go to end of line and 
type 'ss"
[ line now says   end mouseddUpss    ]
Hit Undo - it removes the "ss" *and* the Up before it.

7, 8, 9, 10, .... try just about anything.
Undo either does nothing, or gets it wrong, for almost anything other 
than simple text insertion (and in fact #6 showed that even that isn't 
100% safe).



-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/152 - Release Date: 31/10/2005



From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Wed Nov  2 15:23:39 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 12:23:39 -0800
Subject: Grid Fields
Message-ID: <p06200701bf8ecf9fd058@[10.0.1.2]>

Howdy,

I'm trying to understand grids in fields. I'm hopin' they work like, 
say, tables in Microsoft Word. That would be soooo cool!

(On the other hand, that seems improbable. Even MS Word has trouble 
managing its own tables, and they seem to ask a lot of the CPU.)

Having studied the documentation on this subject, it looks like maybe 
a field with grid turned on just displays lines under each text line, 
and draws vertical lines representing tab stops. If so, I can see how 
it might be good for displaying tab-delimited data. Maybe that's the 
main intended purpose.

Would someone be so kind as to clarify?

Thnx,

Tim


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Nov  2 15:46:22 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 21:46:22 +0100
Subject: Select All and Undo
In-Reply-To: <43691A8C.8060004@tweedly.net>
References: <39C8DA8C-74A7-45C6-85F1-38E32EB786B4@videotron.ca>
	<08E68464-D051-4F3E-9969-7AC394D388D6@major-k.de>
	<43691A8C.8060004@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <474566B4-39CF-4433-B5BA-8B64142823B2@major-k.de>

Hi Alex,

> Klaus Major wrote:
>
>>> And, sigh, Undo still does not in most of the time in the newest   
>>> version.
>> What exatcly cannot be "undone"? Works here of course ;-)
>>
> I find most things can't be undone in the script editor.
> 1. Start a new mainstack, put in a button and edit its script
> add a line, so it looks like
> ...
>  the "end mouseUp" line.
> type "dd" - then Undo (yeah - that worked too)
> Undo again (to re-insert those two characters), go to end of line  
> and type 'ss"
> [ line now says   end mouseddUpss    ]
> Hit Undo - it removes the "ss" *and* the Up before it.
>
> 7, 8, 9, 10, .... try just about anything.
> Undo either does nothing, or gets it wrong, for almost anything  
> other than simple text insertion (and in fact #6 showed that even  
> that isn't 100% safe).
>
> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net

thanks a lot for this long explanation!

Looks like a good idea that i am still using the MC IDE and its  
script editor ;-)


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From rev at armbase.com  Wed Nov  2 16:09:48 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:09:48 +0000
Subject: option button remains grabbed
Message-ID: <20051102210948.envknwg9w4wwcsos@webmail.armbase.com>

Hi All

I have an option button added to a form with the script
on mousedown
    if the mainstack of this stack is Armbase then
        if the controlkey is down then
            grab me
            end if
            end if
            end mousedown

When the button is on the destination stack it can be grabbed when the control
key is down. OK no surprise there.... but it remains grabbed and no matter
where the mouse goes (and if you mouse down twice) it follows te cursor.

Any ideas?
I tried it on a fresh stack and it does the same. So no stack legacy.


All the best
Bob



From rev at armbase.com  Wed Nov  2 16:12:03 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:12:03 +0000
Subject: option button remains grabbed
In-Reply-To: <20051102210948.envknwg9w4wwcsos@webmail.armbase.com>
References: <20051102210948.envknwg9w4wwcsos@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <20051102211203.kg13xjjc00o0o44k@webmail.armbase.com>

Quoting rev at armbase.com:

> Hi All

PS It the behaviour is only with the an option button???????


Cheers
Bob
>
> I have an option button added to a form with the script
> on mousedown
>    if the mainstack of this stack is Armbase then
>        if the controlkey is down then
>            grab me
>            end if
>            end if
>            end mousedown
>
> When the button is on the destination stack it can be grabbed when 
> the control
> key is down. OK no surprise there.... but it remains grabbed and no matter
> where the mouse goes (and if you mouse down twice) it follows te cursor.
>
> Any ideas?
> I tried it on a fresh stack and it does the same. So no stack legacy.
>
>
> All the best
> Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>





From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Nov  2 16:19:54 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 13:19:54 -0800
Subject: I guess I stumped everyone. :(
In-Reply-To: <4369003F.4070903@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <15.50814225.309a16a3@aol.com> <4368ED67.9070805@hyperactivesw.com>
	<D914B23F-0D69-4864-87FD-4E54C9B3C459@conncoll.edu>
	<4369003F.4070903@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <63683706.20051102131954@ahsoftware.net>

Jacque-

Wednesday, November 2, 2005, 10:06:55 AM, you wrote:

> Charles Hartman wrote:
>  >
>  > On Nov 2, 2005, at 11:46 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>  >
>  >> In the button, add this script:
>  >>
>  >> on mouseup
>  >>   bloogle
>  >> end mouseup
>  >>
>  >> When you click the button it will generate an error. See if the  error
>  >> dialog is the correct size.
>  >
>  >
>  > -- and if it *doesn't* generate an error, you will have discovered a
>  > little-known but very useful Rev-internal command. (Hint: watch what
>  > happens to the person sitting next to you.)

> Works on pets, too.

And cleaned all the gunk out of my engine.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Nov  2 17:04:03 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 14:04:03 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <4367DC80.8010100@fourthworld.com>
References: <4367DC80.8010100@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <576333627.20051102140403@ahsoftware.net>

Richard-

Tuesday, November 1, 2005, 1:22:08 PM, you wrote:

> I'd like to be able to determine if an app is running from a removable
> drive.

> I've found that on OS X I can call system_profiler from shell, but it
> takes between 2 and 4 seconds on my 1GHz PB.

> And I've found no solution at all for Windows.

There's a GetDriveType external function for Windows in the sdk. I
thought there was an OSX Gestalt function for this, but I can't find
it.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov  2 17:33:12 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 14:33:12 -0800
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
Message-ID: <B972D381-A253-4961-B00D-AC4B8E6A0EE5@danshafer.com>

When HyperCard was my development tool of choice, I often bemoaned  
the fact that Apple itself seemed unable to articulate what HyperCard  
really was. "It's a digestive aid AND a floor wax!" In my baser  
moments, I wondered if the problem wasn't that Apple was just too  
dumb to get it.

I've had the same sort of experience with Rev. It has, as Yogi Berra  
is wont to say, "Deja vu all over again." Is it a database or an  
application tool or a development environment? Is it for  
professionals or serious amateurs? Today, one of my favorite  
newsletters, Good Experience by one of the brightest designers and  
thinkers in the Web universe, Mark Hurst, has an explanation for why  
this is the case.

"A good experience is rich, something worth exploring, telling others
about, and experiencing again. It's overdetermined - or holistic - or
*integrated*. And being integrated makes it (often) hard to explain,
since one can't truly reduce an integrated whole to a simple cause."

Well said, I think, and an apt description of Revolution's many- 
faceted appeals.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From rgriffit at ctc.net  Wed Nov  2 18:13:51 2005
From: rgriffit at ctc.net (Raymond E. Griffith)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 18:13:51 -0500
Subject: Globals Question
In-Reply-To: <a06110408bf8e7944c456@[141.89.100.174]>
Message-ID: <BF8EB25F.345D9%rgriffit@ctc.net>

>> Hi,
>> 
>> I'm a bit confused over the Scope of Global Symbols. If I have a stack with:
>> 
>> global gGlobal
>> 
>> defined outside of all handlers
>> 
>> and the same in a card or control script BUT in the same Stack, is
>> the same "gGlobal" used in both places?
>> 
>> Thanks a lot
>> Dave
> 
> There are two aspects to scope that affect you in this case.
> 
> 1. A global defined outside of all handlers (I presume you mean above
> all handlers) is available to all handlers within a given object, be
> it a button, card, or stack. I think you are clear about this.
> 
> 2. If the same global variable is defined in multiple objects, be it
> a button, card, or stack, it is the same global even if the objects
> are in different stacks. Globals are environment-wide global. This is
> true regardless whether a global is defined outside of all handlers
> or inside a specific handler.
> 
> Robert Brenstein

I have wrestled with the global issue for some time, and finally found a way
that (to my satisfaction at least) settles the problem.

In the stack script, I have

 global myglobalarray

 on setglobal elementname,globalvalue
   put globalvalue into myglobalarray[elementname]
 end setglobal

 function getglobal elementname
   return myglobalarray[elementname]
 end getglobal

>From this I can set a global or get a value anywhere in the stack at any
time without additional global declarations, no matter what the object is.

I freely confess that this is likely to be a bit slower than other options,
but only marginally so in the larger scheme of things. The myglobalarray is
sufficient for most globals that don't need to be arrays themselves.

Regards,

Raymond E. Griffith




From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Nov  2 18:14:45 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 17:14:45 -0600
Subject: A must have stack for all...
Message-ID: <43694865.7040800@chipp.com>

altEmailHarness
    by Chipp Walters using Sean Shao's GREAT libSmtp253

What does this do?

Makes sending an email from your stack super simple.

This is a simple test stack for Sean Shao's fine SMTP library used for 
sending emails directly from Revolution. This stack works with the 
included library stack libSmtp253.

But the cool part is: included in this stack is a simple altSendMail 
function, which is a very basic wrapper around Sean's libSmtp253 library.

Sean's library stacks are great, and they offer so many options...in 
fact, too many options! You can send HTML as well as Plain text, connect 
to various servers with different authentication schemes, and more! The 
reason I wrote this stack is to build a very simple function which 
allows you to send PLAIN text email directly from Rev.

Forget the GUI, make your own! Frankly, mucho thanks to Sean Shao for 
the fine libSmtp library!!! This just makes it simpler to use.

as ususal, type in the message box:
go URL "http://www.gadgetplugins.com/altplugins/altEmailHarness.rev"

or go to our download page
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Downloads.htm

best,

Chipp
-- 
--------------
Chipp Walters
www.altuit.com



From mpease at lawandpolitics.com  Wed Nov  2 18:42:56 2005
From: mpease at lawandpolitics.com (Michael)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 15:42:56 -0800
Subject: How to tell a line from a paragraph?
In-Reply-To: <20051102162204.81318824FBD@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BF8E8F00.D550%mpease@lawandpolitics.com>

Hi:

Is it possible to determine on which "line" a word resides in a text field,
where a line is defined not as a cr-delimited paragraph but as a "row" in
the field's display?

Thanks,

m




From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov  2 19:17:00 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 16:17:00 -0800
Subject: How to tell a line from a paragraph?
In-Reply-To: <BF8E8F00.D550%mpease@lawandpolitics.com>
References: <BF8E8F00.D550%mpease@lawandpolitics.com>
Message-ID: <856F4750-EAED-4463-B800-A2D7EA228042@danshafer.com>

Not without a lot of laborious calculation, I don't think.


On Nov 2, 2005, at 3:42 PM, Michael wrote:

> Hi:
>
> Is it possible to determine on which "line" a word resides in a  
> text field,
> where a line is defined not as a cr-delimited paragraph but as a  
> "row" in
> the field's display?
>
> Thanks,
>
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov  2 19:17:33 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 16:17:33 -0800
Subject: A must have stack for all...
In-Reply-To: <43694865.7040800@chipp.com>
References: <43694865.7040800@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <0E7DEAC3-67FC-4736-972A-217B09F46920@danshafer.com>

Amazing. Stupendous. Incredibly useful!

I've already added it to one of my projects and the client is ecstatic.

Dan

On Nov 2, 2005, at 3:14 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> altEmailHarness
>    by Chipp Walters using Sean Shao's GREAT libSmtp253
>
> What does this do?
>
> Makes sending an email from your stack super simple.
>
> This is a simple test stack for Sean Shao's fine SMTP library used  
> for sending emails directly from Revolution. This stack works with  
> the included library stack libSmtp253.
>
> But the cool part is: included in this stack is a simple  
> altSendMail function, which is a very basic wrapper around Sean's  
> libSmtp253 library.
>
> Sean's library stacks are great, and they offer so many  
> options...in fact, too many options! You can send HTML as well as  
> Plain text, connect to various servers with different  
> authentication schemes, and more! The reason I wrote this stack is  
> to build a very simple function which allows you to send PLAIN text  
> email directly from Rev.
>
> Forget the GUI, make your own! Frankly, mucho thanks to Sean Shao  
> for the fine libSmtp library!!! This just makes it simpler to use.
>
> as ususal, type in the message box:
> go URL "http://www.gadgetplugins.com/altplugins/altEmailHarness.rev"
>
> or go to our download page
> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Downloads.htm
>
> best,
>
> Chipp
> -- 
> --------------
> Chipp Walters
> www.altuit.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Nov  2 19:29:23 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 18:29:23 -0600
Subject: How to tell a line from a paragraph?
In-Reply-To: <BF8E8F00.D550%mpease@lawandpolitics.com>
References: <BF8E8F00.D550%mpease@lawandpolitics.com>
Message-ID: <436959E3.8070100@hyperactivesw.com>

Michael wrote:
> Hi:
> 
> Is it possible to determine on which "line" a word resides in a text field,
> where a line is defined not as a cr-delimited paragraph but as a "row" in
> the field's display?

I wrote a function a while back that tells how many visible lines are in 
a field, regardless of text wrap:

function getFldLines tFld -- get the actual number of visible lines in a 
scrolling field
   -- regardless of whether they are wrapped or not.
   -- by J. Landman Gay

   put the textheight of fld tFld into txHeight
   if the style of fld tFld = "scrolling" then put the scroll of fld 
tFld into theScroll
   select after text of fld tFld -- scroll to bottom
   get item 2 of the selectedLoc
   put it - the top of fld tFld + the scroll of fld tFld into pix
   select empty
   if the style of fld tFld = "scrolling" then set the scroll of fld 
tFld to theScroll
   return pix div txHeight
end getFldLines

Watch out for wrapped lines in the above. You could probably modify this 
to do what you want. You'd have to select before or after the word 
you're looking for and use that selectedloc for the calculation rather 
than scrolling to the end of the field and clicking there. If I had more 
time I'd work it out for you, but let us know if you get stuck and maybe 
I can fiddle with it when I get back later.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Wed Nov  2 20:43:07 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Buster)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 02:43:07 +0100
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <4367DC80.8010100@fourthworld.com>
References: <4367DC80.8010100@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <52770ECC-38C4-461D-A2F4-A51CA890333E@scarlet.be>

Hi,

As you didn't mention which info you exactly need,
this call can help you get the info of all devices for starter:

put  shell("diskutil list")


Greetings,
Wouter



On 01 Nov 2005, at 22:22, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I'd like to be able to determine if an app is running from a  
> removable drive.
>
> I've found that on OS X I can call system_profiler from shell, but  
> it takes between 2 and 4 seconds on my 1GHz PB.
>
> And I've found no solution at all for Windows.
>
> While we're waiting for implementation of BZ#101 from July 2003
> ("detailed drives" <http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/ 
> show_bug.cgi?id=101>), do we have any quick cross-platform solution  
> for this?
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Wed Nov  2 21:23:25 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 12:23:25 +1000
Subject: Layout ?
In-Reply-To: <5c61caccc97c2298a9b039208058be41@club-internet.fr>
References: <5c61caccc97c2298a9b039208058be41@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511021823t7e5eb091y44a8260ad7c1282@mail.gmail.com>

> I want to organize the same datas in different ways.
> Is there a way to do so with Revolution ?
> Is there something that works like layouts in FileMaker and allows to
> show the same fields differently according to needs ?
>

Probably the easiest way is to put your data into one stack and have
another stack that has your layouts. Make a card for each different
layout and have a handler for each card that fills in the data from
your data stack in your preferred layout.

Cheers,
Sarah


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Nov  2 22:18:43 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:18:43 -0600
Subject: I guess I stumped everyone. :(
In-Reply-To: <15.50814225.309a16a3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BF8EDDB3.2F117%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/2/05 7:18 AM, "AbilityForms at aol.com" <AbilityForms at aol.com> wrote:

> Thanks for responding Jacque,
> 
> As I said before in other questions to the group I've apparently suffered
> some sort of corruption. These three windows all open to the full screen every
> time. It doesn't matter that I resize and save them. They still open full
> screen 
> size the next time. Someone told me how to fix the preference panel and that
> worked. I was just hoping I could fix the other three panels in a similar
> fashion. If these windows are in a stack I could address the problems with an
> openCard or openStack handler.

I've run into something similar, and it had to do with the fact that I had a
preOpenStack handler that was doing some automatic sizing of a stack, but
forgot to set it up so that ONLY the main stack got the message... here's an
example:

In the mainstack I had this stack script:

on openStack
  set the rect of this stack to the screenRect
end openStack

And it had three substacks. Two of them hand their own 'openStack' handler,
but the third one didn't. We couldn't figure out why the third one was
opening to fill the screen until we finally realized that the 'openStack'
message that went to the substack was not being trapped by it and was
falling through to the mainstack. The code *should* have been either:

on openStack
  if the owner of the target is me then
    set the rect of this stack to the screenRect
  else
    pass openStack
  end if
end openStack

OR, I should have moved the original code into the CARD and not leave it in
the STACK.

Is it possible that you have a plugin, library, backscript or frontscirpt
that might be encountering this same kind of situation?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Wed Nov  2 22:42:42 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 22:42:42 -0500
Subject: I guess I stumped everyone. :(
In-Reply-To: <BF8EDDB3.2F117%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF8EDDB3.2F117%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <CF5D9ABF-85A0-4262-88C2-2539990F3561@conncoll.edu>

Wow! Until I read this message it didn't occur to me that the  
preOpenStack in the main stack of the database app I'm working on was  
being called (I just checked) every time one of the five or six  
substacks opens. Since that handler opens the database and reads much  
of it into RAM, that would have gotten pretty awful if I hadn't known  
until there was a lot of data in there . . .

This is a pretty bad pitfall. I've been surprised by this before  
(though I forgot it) -- that "preOpenStack" doesn't mean, as it so  
obviously seems to, "preOpenTHISStack" it means this stack and all  
its substacks . . .

Charles Hartman


On Nov 2, 2005, at 10:18 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> On 11/2/05 7:18 AM, "AbilityForms at aol.com" <AbilityForms at aol.com>  
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for responding Jacque,
>>
>> As I said before in other questions to the group I've apparently  
>> suffered
>> some sort of corruption. These three windows all open to the full  
>> screen every
>> time. It doesn't matter that I resize and save them. They still  
>> open full
>> screen
>> size the next time. Someone told me how to fix the preference  
>> panel and that
>> worked. I was just hoping I could fix the other three panels in a  
>> similar
>> fashion. If these windows are in a stack I could address the  
>> problems with an
>> openCard or openStack handler.
>
> I've run into something similar, and it had to do with the fact  
> that I had a
> preOpenStack handler that was doing some automatic sizing of a  
> stack, but
> forgot to set it up so that ONLY the main stack got the message...  
> here's an
> example:
>
> In the mainstack I had this stack script:
>
> on openStack
>   set the rect of this stack to the screenRect
> end openStack
>
> And it had three substacks. Two of them hand their own 'openStack'  
> handler,
> but the third one didn't. We couldn't figure out why the third one was
> opening to fill the screen until we finally realized that the  
> 'openStack'
> message that went to the substack was not being trapped by it and was
> falling through to the mainstack. The code *should* have been either:
>
> on openStack
>   if the owner of the target is me then
>     set the rect of this stack to the screenRect
>   else
>     pass openStack
>   end if
> end openStack
>
> OR, I should have moved the original code into the CARD and not  
> leave it in
> the STACK.
>
> Is it possible that you have a plugin, library, backscript or  
> frontscirpt
> that might be encountering this same kind of situation?
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Wed Nov  2 22:51:50 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 22:51:50 -0500
Subject: I guess I stumped everyone. :(
In-Reply-To: <CF5D9ABF-85A0-4262-88C2-2539990F3561@conncoll.edu>
References: <BF8EDDB3.2F117%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<CF5D9ABF-85A0-4262-88C2-2539990F3561@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <11CF6FE6-2174-48A9-8E82-DD92F32A9715@conncoll.edu>


On Nov 2, 2005, at 10:42 PM, Charles Hartman wrote:

>> on openStack
>>   if the owner of the target is me then
>>     set the rect of this stack to the screenRect
>>   else
>>     pass openStack
>>   end if
>> end openStack

-- but when I do add this bracketing condition to my preOpenStack  
handler in the main stack, I get an execution error (when the handler  
does run). Is there something I don't understand about this? Guess  
there must be . . .

Charles Hartman



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Nov  2 22:59:02 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:59:02 -0600
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <52770ECC-38C4-461D-A2F4-A51CA890333E@scarlet.be>
Message-ID: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/2/05 7:43 PM, "Buster" <wouter.abraham at scarlet.be> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> As you didn't mention which info you exactly need,
> this call can help you get the info of all devices for starter:
> 
> put  shell("diskutil list")

Yes, and after checking, you can do this:

on mouseUp
  put isRemovable("USB DISK")
end mouseUp

function isRemovable pDisk
  switch (the platform)
  case "MacOS"
    if isOSX() then
      put shell("diskutil list") into tData
      put lineOffset(" " & pDisk & " ",tData) into tLine
      put last word of line tLine of tData into tDisk
      put shell("diskutil info" && tDisk) into tDiskInfo
      put word 2 of line lineOffset("Ejectable:",tDiskInfo) of tDiskInfo =
"Yes" into tRetVal
    end if
    break
  case "Win32"
    break
  end switch
  return tRetVal
end isRemovable

function isOSX
  set the itemDel to "."
  return (item 1 of the systemVersion >=10)
end isOSX

Obviously this is only OSX, but one other thing to consider is that it took
a little over 2 seconds to run this function with the two calls to
'diskutil', so it is certainly not a speedy call...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Nov  2 23:00:54 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 22:00:54 -0600
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <B972D381-A253-4961-B00D-AC4B8E6A0EE5@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <BF8EE796.2F11E%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/2/05 4:33 PM, "Dan Shafer" <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:

> When HyperCard was my development tool of choice, I often bemoaned
> the fact that Apple itself seemed unable to articulate what HyperCard
> really was. "It's a digestive aid AND a floor wax!" In my baser
> moments, I wondered if the problem wasn't that Apple was just too
> dumb to get it.

No, because when I worked at Allegiant, the same problem was true for
SuperCard as well... there just wasn't a single way to articulate what it
did...

> I've had the same sort of experience with Rev. It has, as Yogi Berra
> is wont to say, "Deja vu all over again." Is it a database or an
> application tool or a development environment? Is it for
> professionals or serious amateurs? Today, one of my favorite
> newsletters, Good Experience by one of the brightest designers and
> thinkers in the Web universe, Mark Hurst, has an explanation for why
> this is the case.
> 
> "A good experience is rich, something worth exploring, telling others
> about, and experiencing again. It's overdetermined - or holistic - or
> *integrated*. And being integrated makes it (often) hard to explain,
> since one can't truly reduce an integrated whole to a simple cause."
> 
> Well said, I think, and an apt description of Revolution's many-
> faceted appeals.

Agreed...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Wed Nov  2 23:17:03 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 20:17:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <B972D381-A253-4961-B00D-AC4B8E6A0EE5@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511022016530.23586-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

I love it!!!

Judy

On Wed, 2 Nov 2005, Dan Shafer wrote:

> When HyperCard was my development tool of choice, I often bemoaned
> the fact that Apple itself seemed unable to articulate what HyperCard
> really was. "It's a digestive aid AND a floor wax!" In my baser
> moments, I wondered if the problem wasn't that Apple was just too
> dumb to get it.
>
> I've had the same sort of experience with Rev. It has, as Yogi Berra
> is wont to say, "Deja vu all over again." Is it a database or an
> application tool or a development environment? Is it for
> professionals or serious amateurs? Today, one of my favorite
> newsletters, Good Experience by one of the brightest designers and
> thinkers in the Web universe, Mark Hurst, has an explanation for why
> this is the case.
>
> "A good experience is rich, something worth exploring, telling others
> about, and experiencing again. It's overdetermined - or holistic - or
> *integrated*. And being integrated makes it (often) hard to explain,
> since one can't truly reduce an integrated whole to a simple cause."
>
> Well said, I think, and an apt description of Revolution's many-
> faceted appeals.
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
> http://www.shafermedia.com
> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>  From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  2 23:40:08 2005
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 20:40:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Layout ?
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511021823t7e5eb091y44a8260ad7c1282@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051103044008.66538.qmail@web60516.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Sarah Reichelt <sarah.reichelt at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I want to organize the same datas in different
> ways.
> > Is there a way to do so with Revolution ?
> > Is there something that works like layouts in
> FileMaker and allows to
> > show the same fields differently according to
> needs ?
> >
> 
> Probably the easiest way is to put your data into
> one stack and have
> another stack that has your layouts. Make a card for
> each different
> layout and have a handler for each card that fills
> in the data from
> your data stack in your preferred layout.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> 

Or you can keep a single stack and play around with
profiles: you could make a Master profile with the
current layout, and add another profile where the rect
of your objects reflects the new location.
You may need to experiment a bit to make it work.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________ 
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Nov  3 00:22:59 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 21:22:59 -0800
Subject: Globals Question
In-Reply-To: <BF8EB25F.345D9%rgriffit@ctc.net>
References: <BF8EB25F.345D9%rgriffit@ctc.net>
Message-ID: <4332668865.20051102212259@ahsoftware.net>

Raymond-

Wednesday, November 2, 2005, 3:13:51 PM, you wrote:

>>From this I can set a global or get a value anywhere in the stack at any
> time without additional global declarations, no matter what the object is.

Nice ...and even better would be to make myglobalarray local, as
nonintutive as that seems...

local myglobalarray

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From jhj at jhj.com  Thu Nov  3 00:38:24 2005
From: jhj at jhj.com (Jerry J)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 21:38:24 -0800
Subject: A must have stack for all...
In-Reply-To: <20051103031135.011D282510C@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051103031135.011D282510C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <37890c5f8e32eee063e88e59305a24d2@jhj.com>

> altEmailHarness
>     by Chipp Walters using Sean Shao's GREAT libSmtp253
>
> What does this do?
>
> Makes sending an email from your stack super simple.

And saves me sussing it out by myself! I'm working on a stack that 
collects level and flow data from several wells, a reservoir and a 
weather station. It needs to report to a web server (also my problem) 
via an occasional ISDN call (no broadband that far out in Carmel 
Valley). This is just what I needed for that part of the front end!
http://www.ranacreek.com/

My thanks to Chipp and Sean for this,
Jerry Jensen



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov  3 00:42:36 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:42:36 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>

Ken et al -

I appreciate the thought that y'all put into trying to solve this, but 
in brainstorming with Paul Looney and Bill Vlahos, each of them 
independently hit on a similar possible solution.  The only problem is 
that it's so simple it feels like cheating. :)

Keeping our focus on the goal of writing portable apps (that is, apps 
that can run self-contained on a removable device without leaving 
anything on the host machine), the problem could be defined not as "Are 
we on a removable drive?"  but "Can we write to our own program folder?"

There are two scenarios in which we can't write to our program's folder 
(there may be others, but these come two mind):

- Running from CD-ROM

- Running on a computer in a school lab or other multi-user
   environment where the user may not have permission to write
   to the program directory.

The latter case is why Microsoft and Apple recommend that we use the 
folders they specify for storing things like preferences and user data.

But is it really so much of a sin to store prefs in the program's own 
folder if possible?

So each of these clever gents suggested that we simply first try to 
write prefs to the program's own folder, and if that fails we then try 
to write to the OS-recommended folder for user prefs (Preferences on OS 
X and Application Data on XP).

If the app resides on removable media like a Zip or USB drive, it should 
have no trouble writing to its own folder and that's the end of it.  And 
if the program is installed in the Program Files directory as normal (or 
Applications on OS X), there should be no harm in writing to that 
folder.  If we can't write to that folder we're either on a CD or in a 
protected folder, and would need to write to the OS-recommended folder 
at that point.

Is this a foolhardy thing to do?

Could there be a downside to writing prefs or other such app-managed 
data to a folder either within or at the same level as our program's 
folder if we have permissions to do so?

It makes me nervous to consider anything in computing being this simple. ;)

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  __________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From simplsol at aol.com  Thu Nov  3 01:13:07 2005
From: simplsol at aol.com (simplsol at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 01:13:07 -0500
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <8C7AE54CACDE4DA-DB4-3AD1@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com>

Richard,
You should be able to do anything you want to with your own stuff in 
your own part of the world.
As long as your permissions don't interfer with the OS or other apps., 
I see no harm.
Paul Looney

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:42:36 -0800
Subject: Re: checking removable drives

   Ken et al -?
?
  I appreciate the thought that y'all put into trying to solve this, but 
in brainstorming with Paul Looney and Bill Vlahos, each of them 
independently hit on a similar possible solution. The only problem is 
that it's so simple it feels like cheating. :)?
?
  Keeping our focus on the goal of writing portable apps (that is, apps 
that can run self-contained on a removable device without leaving 
anything on the host machine), the problem could be defined not as "Are 
we on a removable drive?" but "Can we write to our own program folder?"?
?
  There are two scenarios in which we can't write to our program's 
folder (there may be others, but these come two mind):?
?
 - Running from CD-ROM?
?
 - Running on a computer in a school lab or other multi-user?
 ? environment where the user may not have permission to write?
 ? to the program directory.?
?
  The latter case is why Microsoft and Apple recommend that we use the 
folders they specify for storing things like preferences and user data.?
?
  But is it really so much of a sin to store prefs in the program's own 
folder if possible??
?
  So each of these clever gents suggested that we simply first try to 
write prefs to the program's own folder, and if that fails we then try 
to write to the OS-recommended folder for user prefs (Preferences on OS 
X and Application Data on XP).?
?
  If the app resides on removable media like a Zip or USB drive, it 
should have no trouble writing to its own folder and that's the end of 
it. And if the program is installed in the Program Files directory as 
normal (or Applications on OS X), there should be no harm in writing to 
that folder. If we can't write to that folder we're either on a CD or 
in a protected folder, and would need to write to the OS-recommended 
folder at that point.?
?
 Is this a foolhardy thing to do??
?
  Could there be a downside to writing prefs or other such app-managed 
data to a folder either within or at the same level as our program's 
folder if we have permissions to do so??
?
  It makes me nervous to consider anything in computing being this 
simple. ;)?
?
 --?
 ?Richard Gaskin?
 ?Fourth World Media Corporation?
 ?__________________________________________________?
 ?Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev?
 _______________________________________________?
 use-revolution mailing list?
 use-revolution at lists.runrev.com?
  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:?
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution?

    


From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Nov  3 01:33:39 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 22:33:39 -0800
Subject: How to tell a line from a paragraph?
In-Reply-To: <BF8E8F00.D550%mpease@lawandpolitics.com>
References: <BF8E8F00.D550%mpease@lawandpolitics.com>
Message-ID: <3D2B64AE-9FA0-445C-9AE0-FD4881B9A676@inspiredlogic.com>

Check out the formattedText property. It gives you back the text of a  
field with returns inserted where the text is wrapped in the field.

On Nov 2, 2005, at 3:42 PM, Michael wrote:

> Is it possible to determine on which "line" a word resides in a  
> text field,
> where a line is defined not as a cr-delimited paragraph but as a  
> "row" in
> the field's display?



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Nov  3 01:51:11 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 00:51:11 -0600
Subject: I guess I stumped everyone. :(
In-Reply-To: <11CF6FE6-2174-48A9-8E82-DD92F32A9715@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <BF8F0F7F.2F13D%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/2/05 9:51 PM, "Charles Hartman" <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu> wrote:

> 
> On Nov 2, 2005, at 10:42 PM, Charles Hartman wrote:
> 
>>> on openStack
>>>   if the owner of the target is me then
>>>     set the rect of this stack to the screenRect
>>>   else
>>>     pass openStack
>>>   end if
>>> end openStack
> 
> -- but when I do add this bracketing condition to my preOpenStack
> handler in the main stack, I get an execution error (when the handler
> does run). Is there something I don't understand about this? Guess
> there must be . . .

Are you passing "openStack", or "preOpenStack"? The handler should read:

on preOpenStack
  if the owner of the target is me then
    set the rect of this stack to the screenRect
  else
    pass preOpenStack
  end if
end preOpenStack

Basically here's how this works - all the ___stack and ___card messages
(preOpenStack, openCard, etc.) are sent to the card, and then travel through
the hierarchy to the stack. If the stack is a substack, it then travels to
the stack script of the main stack. So a 'preopenstack' message follows one
of these two paths (the location of the handler that traps this has a *
after it):

  card of mainstack -> stack of mainstack* -> (to libraries/backscripts)

OR

  card of substack -> stack of substack -> stack of mainstack* -> (libs/bs)

So the "target" of the message is the card. Checking the "owner of the
target" would be the stack that "owns" the card that got the message. Since
"me" in a script identifies the object that owns the script that's currently
executing, checking to see if "the owner of the target is me" in the
mainstack script basically says "if the recipient of the message is the card
that I own", and so it *doesn't* trigger when a card of a substack is opened
(since the owner of the target of the message is the *substack*, not the
mainstack).

Now a number of other people do it in a simpler (although a bit more
confusing to me) way - all of these message handlers reside in the *card*
script, so to trap the 'preOpenStack' for the mainstack the preOpenStack
handler would be in the script of the first card of the mainstack. When you
do it *this* way, there is no possibility that a substack can trigger this
message because the message passing hierarchy does this:

  card of mainstack* -> stack of mainstack -> (to libraries/backscripts)
AND
  card of substack -> stack of substack -> stack of mainstack -> (libs/bs)

So the mainstack's card isn't in the passing hierarchy for substacks.

The reason I say it's "more confusing to me" is because mentally I associate
___stack messages with a stack and ___card messages with a card, so putting
___stack messages in a card script seems somehow "wrong" (although I know it
really isn't).

Anyway, I've settled on the "owner of the target is me" approach, which has
worked well for me for years. :-)


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Nov  3 01:55:23 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 00:55:23 -0600
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BF8F107B.2F140%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/2/05 11:42 PM, "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

> Could there be a downside to writing prefs or other such app-managed
> data to a folder either within or at the same level as our program's
> folder if we have permissions to do so?

Not that I can see - especially in Windows where some apps write to the
AppData folder, some write to the Registry, some write local files, I think
you should do what best suits you.

:-)


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Thu Nov  3 02:29:47 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 08:29:47 +0100
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <BF8F107B.2F140%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <OF6158BCE4.A9BE1427-ONC12570AE.00281F5E-C12570AE.00292DA8@deutsche-boerse.com>

Ken, Richard,

it's true it's open for discussion but in general, programs that write 
prefs to the same app folder have
the advantage that they can be moved anywhere later by the user. 

The registry is practical in case you want to update with an installer so 
it's easy to see where the
app was installed (not all users have the same "program files", "windows" 
or application (your app name)
folder. 

Anyway, to get back to the subject to see if a drive in Windows is 
removable, look at this vbs example

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/script56/html/sgfsosample.asp

There might be other ways for those who can't execute vbs scripts but it's 
the "common" way to script 
windows' objects...

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 03/11/2005 07:55:23:

> On 11/2/05 11:42 PM, "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com> 
wrote:
> 
> > Could there be a downside to writing prefs or other such app-managed
> > data to a folder either within or at the same level as our program's
> > folder if we have permissions to do so?
> 
> Not that I can see - especially in Windows where some apps write to the
> AppData folder, some write to the Registry, some write local files, I 
think
> you should do what best suits you.
> 
> :-)
> 
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> 



-----------------------------------------
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recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
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IMPORTANT MESSAGE

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From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Nov  3 02:52:11 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 23:52:11 -0800
Subject: How to tell a line from a paragraph?
In-Reply-To: <3D2B64AE-9FA0-445C-9AE0-FD4881B9A676@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <BF8E8F00.D550%mpease@lawandpolitics.com>
	<3D2B64AE-9FA0-445C-9AE0-FD4881B9A676@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <0C9ACC35-DA25-4A0D-964E-B27CCE9B2BDE@danshafer.com>

Geoff....

Way cool! I hadn't even looked at formattedText from that viewpoint.  
So the original poster's problem could be solved something like:

on mouseUp
   put the formattedText of field "foo" into field "holder"
   find "aid" in field "holder"
   put the foundLIne
end mouseUp



On Nov 2, 2005, at 10:33 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:

> Check out the formattedText property. It gives you back the text of  
> a field with returns inserted where the text is wrapped in the field.
>
> On Nov 2, 2005, at 3:42 PM, Michael wrote:
>
>> Is it possible to determine on which "line" a word resides in a  
>> text field,
>> where a line is defined not as a cr-delimited paragraph but as a  
>> "row" in
>> the field's display?
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Nov  3 02:52:40 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 01:52:40 -0600
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <OF6158BCE4.A9BE1427-ONC12570AE.00281F5E-C12570AE.00292DA8@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <BF8F1DE8.2F14D%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/3/05 1:29 AM, "xavier.bury at clearstream.com"
<xavier.bury at clearstream.com> wrote:

> Ken, Richard,
> 
> it's true it's open for discussion but in general, programs that write
> prefs to the same app folder have
> the advantage that they can be moved anywhere later by the user.
> 
> The registry is practical in case you want to update with an installer so
> it's easy to see where the
> app was installed (not all users have the same "program files", "windows"
> or application (your app name)
> folder. 
> 
> Anyway, to get back to the subject to see if a drive in Windows is
> removable, look at this vbs example
> 
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/script56/html
> /sgfsosample.asp
> 
> There might be other ways for those who can't execute vbs scripts but it's
> the "common" way to script
> windows' objects...

... and unfortunately triggers Norton AntiVirus (and others) to display a
warning dialog about the "suspicious" behavior... VBS is very useful from
Rev, but as soon as you use the FileSystemObject, you trigger the anti-viral
software...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Thu Nov  3 03:58:23 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 09:58:23 +0100
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <BF8F1DE8.2F14D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <OF5B078A73.BAEFE41A-ONC12570AE.002DF4CF-C12570AE.00314A4A@deutsche-boerse.com>

Ken,

At work we use etrust, CAVA (for emc systems) and sophos and never get 
these issues!!!

I've thrown away Norton long ago because it's such an intrusive 
over-simplistic application without 
much choice of what i could or wanted to be done. 

Not to mention the email slowdowns with dialog interuptions, slow file 
accesses, crahes etc... 

These you dont get from Sophos and you have lots of parameters that you 
can adjust for fine-tuning
performance and security levels. 

I've also tried MacAfee  AV and it was just a bit better than NAV but same 
"consumer" simple settings 
that dont help and issues later on - like your system freezes when it 
scans big files and it didn't detect a few 
virii and let them through! Let's not talk about the spyware it let 
through!

I wonder, does NAV for mac interupt every applescript using a file? I 
remember NAV being installed on my
old mac, and this rogue applet sending all my files to the trash without 
peep from NAV!!! 

Symantec products had a good track record fixing MacOS drives' follies in 
the old days where Apple's
Disk First Aid came too short but later on PCs, pretty much every norton 
product caused major
problems over and over...

Now, if you look at window's AV comparisons, you get 10 different 
answers... it's good to know what works
and what doesn't... Im not saying NAV is not good but it just never cut it 
for me...

just my 2 cents to make windows friendlier, and more productive...

cheers
Xavier


use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 03/11/2005 08:52:40:

> On 11/3/05 1:29 AM, "xavier.bury at clearstream.com"
> <xavier.bury at clearstream.com> wrote:
> 
> > Ken, Richard,
> > 
> > it's true it's open for discussion but in general, programs that write
> > prefs to the same app folder have
> > the advantage that they can be moved anywhere later by the user.
> > 
> > The registry is practical in case you want to update with an installer 
so
> > it's easy to see where the
> > app was installed (not all users have the same "program files", 
"windows"
> > or application (your app name)
> > folder. 
> > 
> > Anyway, to get back to the subject to see if a drive in Windows is
> > removable, look at this vbs example
> > 
> > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-
> us/script56/html
> > /sgfsosample.asp
> > 
> > There might be other ways for those who can't execute vbs scripts but 
it's
> > the "common" way to script
> > windows' objects...
> 
> ... and unfortunately triggers Norton AntiVirus (and others) to display 
a
> warning dialog about the "suspicious" behavior... VBS is very useful 
from
> Rev, but as soon as you use the FileSystemObject, you trigger the 
anti-viral
> software...
> 
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

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this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
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From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Thu Nov  3 07:58:22 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 07:58:22 -0500
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <BF8F107B.2F140%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF8F107B.2F140%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <84B0E9CB-FD43-4B90-85F4-829B4DF63652@conncoll.edu>


(an OT, musing response:) Interesting. A year or so ago, on a Python  
list, because I was trying to write a my0wnData file (for the  
program, not the user), I asked how to find out what "the program's  
own folder" *was*. On OS X it's weird; the "own folder" turns out to  
be inside the application bundle (so invisible to the user). But the  
interesting bit is that I got told by many, many people on that list  
that one should never, never write things in arbitrary (non-system- 
designated) places, or assume anything about where anything was  
written that relied on any "default" location.

Charles Hartman

> Not that I can see - especially in Windows where some apps write to  
> the
> AppData folder, some write to the Registry, some write local files,  
> I think
> you should do what best suits you.




From AbilityForms at aol.com  Thu Nov  3 08:10:54 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 08:10:54 EST
Subject: stumped problem solved! :)
Message-ID: <e3.1fd735cf.309b665e@aol.com>

> As I said before in other questions to the group I've apparently suffered
> some sort of corruption. These three windows all open to the full screen 
every
> time. It doesn't matter that I resize and save them. They still open full 
screen
> size the next time. Someone told me how to fix the preference panel and 
that
> worked. I was just hoping I could fix the other three panels in a similar
> fashion. If these windows are in a stack I could address the problems with 
an
> openCard or openStack handler.

I suspect the reason you aren't getting many answers is because no one
else has seen this. I know I never have. You may have already tried it,
but here is what I would do:

Throw away your entire Rev installation. Reinstall from a
newly-downloaded copy off the web site.

Do not install any extra plugins; leave the installation in its virgin
state. Create a new stack with a single button. Select the button and
open the inspector and check its size.

In the button, add this script:

on mouseup
?? bloogle
end mouseup

When you click the button it will generate an error. See if the error
dialog is the correct size.

If these windows are normal size (and if they aren't, I haven't a clue
why not,) then the resizing problem is probably related to a specific
stack you are working on, or a script in a stack in use (i.e., a plugin)
or a backscript. I can't imagine any other reason for this bizarre
behavior. Something is resetting the default window sizes.

Corruption is highly unlikely (and very rare in Revolution) and of the
handful of corrupted stacks I've seen, they always crash or refuse to
open. Occasionally a bad image import will cause a problem, but that
also usually crashes.


Well, I downloaded a fresh Rev copy then foolishly opened one of my existing 
stacks and my problems persisted. I don't have any plugins, substacks, 
frontScripts or backScripts. The oversize windows are a problem on all my stacks. I 
appreciate Ken Ray's input. I have a preOpenStack handler for all my stacks and 
it resizes each stack. I changed it to a openstack handler. Then I remembered 
I used a "Start Using stack handler" it was causing the same problem as Ken 
had suggested with substacks. When I eliminated the conflict in the openstack 
of the "using" stack my problems vanished! Hurray! I knew there had to be an 
answer. I really appreciate the help. This newbie needs a lot of hand holding.

Joe
Orlando, Florida


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Thu Nov  3 08:15:29 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 08:15:29 -0500
Subject: I guess I stumped everyone. :(
In-Reply-To: <BF8F0F7F.2F13D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF8F0F7F.2F13D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <D79E1C9C-C579-4A52-B2A1-AE5001092344@conncoll.edu>


On Nov 3, 2005, at 1:51 AM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Basically here's how this works - all the ___stack and ___card  
> messages
> (preOpenStack, openCard, etc.) are sent to the card, and then  
> travel through
> the hierarchy to the stack. If the stack is a substack, it then  
> travels to

For a beginner (someday I'll stop being a beginner), that's where the  
problem starts. I have this message called preOpenStack, which I can  
use to set up my stack, and it's handled in the script for the . . .  
card? Yes, I see why; but it is not intuitive.

Thanks for your very lucid explanation of "owner" and "target" and  
"me". It turns out that my problem was this: during development I  
have an "initialize" button on the one card of my main stack (so as  
to set up or reset the underlying database), and the button's script  
says
		send "preOpenStack" to this stack
If my preOpenStack handler begins with "if the owner of the target is  
me" then I get an execution error (because of passing that message  
into the stratosphere) when I press the "initialize" button; but it  
works fine when I'm really opening the stack. Alternatively, the line  
"if the target is me" works with the button, but does nothing if I'm  
really opening the stack. All that makes sense I think. I can't think  
how to write that line for both contexts -- suggestions?

Charles Hartman



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Thu Nov  3 08:31:52 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 14:31:52 +0100
Subject: I guess I stumped everyone. :(
In-Reply-To: <D79E1C9C-C579-4A52-B2A1-AE5001092344@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <OFBC8BCC1D.E9636457-ONC12570AE.00492212-C12570AE.004A53F2@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Charles,

One common source of errors is with the word "me"

First because if you transfer code from a control to a stack, Me changes.
Me works fine for cards or stacks but you have to be sure of teh context.

For example in a button script

on mouseup
 put me
end mouseup

gives you nothing - unless the button has content. Same with a field.

Second

"if the owner of the target is me"

You need to check if the target exists!!! 

if may not be necessary on a mouseup but on other
handlers, and one that gets sent a message above all,
there's no guarantee there is a target...

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 03/11/2005 14:15:29:

> 
> On Nov 3, 2005, at 1:51 AM, Ken Ray wrote:
> 
> > Basically here's how this works - all the ___stack and ___card 
> > messages
> > (preOpenStack, openCard, etc.) are sent to the card, and then 
> > travel through
> > the hierarchy to the stack. If the stack is a substack, it then 
> > travels to
> 
> For a beginner (someday I'll stop being a beginner), that's where the 
> problem starts. I have this message called preOpenStack, which I can 
> use to set up my stack, and it's handled in the script for the . . . 
> card? Yes, I see why; but it is not intuitive.
> 
> Thanks for your very lucid explanation of "owner" and "target" and 
> "me". It turns out that my problem was this: during development I 
> have an "initialize" button on the one card of my main stack (so as 
> to set up or reset the underlying database), and the button's script 
> says
>       send "preOpenStack" to this stack
> If my preOpenStack handler begins with "if the owner of the target is 
> me" then I get an execution error (because of passing that message 
> into the stratosphere) when I press the "initialize" button; but it 
> works fine when I'm really opening the stack. Alternatively, the line 
> "if the target is me" works with the button, but does nothing if I'm 
> really opening the stack. All that makes sense I think. I can't think 
> how to write that line for both contexts -- suggestions?
> 
> Charles Hartman
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



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From jhurley at infostations.com  Thu Nov  3 08:49:36 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 05:49:36 -0800
Subject: A must have stack for all...
In-Reply-To: <20051103031135.011D282510C@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051103031135.011D282510C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p0623091dbf8fc44242ec@[69.19.167.219]>

>
>Message: 12
>Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 17:14:45 -0600
>From: Chipp Walters <chipp at chipp.com>
>Subject: A must have stack for all...
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Message-ID: <43694865.7040800 at chipp.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>altEmailHarness
>     by Chipp Walters using Sean Shao's GREAT libSmtp253


Chipp,

Thanks for this. Don't have any  immediate need yet, but nice to know 
it is there for the future.

Unfortunately it doesn't work for me.

In the log I get: "Opening true" followed quickly by "Closing 
connection," and then a dialog box: "Send failed"

I tried stepping through the script in the debugger and the failure 
occurs at the line:

start using stack "libSmtp253"

That stack shows in the Application Browser.

I haven't figured out how to step into the substack for further debugging.

Any thoughts?

Jim

From bvlahos at mac.com  Thu Nov  3 10:00:16 2005
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 07:00:16 -0800
Subject: altQuickTable
In-Reply-To: <435FFDCF.4020907@chipp.com>
References: <435FFDCF.4020907@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <9b619f73dc34372b7da72a1e79fb262f@mac.com>

Chipp,

Thanks for this. It is an easy solution to a long running nasty problem 
with my application.

Bill Vlahos

On Oct 26, 2005, at 3:06 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Hey gang,
>
> Just posted a very simple table editing script, using just a single 
> field. I find it invaluable and have used variations of this script on 
> many different project.
>
> If you're interested, just type into the message box and enter:
>
> go URL "http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/altQuickTable.rev"
>
> It automatically calculates which column of a field you have clicked 
> in, asks for a value and inserts it into the proper row/column.
>
> best,
>
> Chipp
> -- 
> --------------
> Chipp Walters
> www.altuit.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Thu Nov  3 11:06:44 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 08:06:44 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <OF5B078A73.BAEFE41A-ONC12570AE.002DF4CF-C12570AE.00314A4A@deutsche-boerse
	.com>
References: <OF5B078A73.BAEFE41A-ONC12570AE.002DF4CF-C12570AE.00314A4A@deutsche-boerse
	.com>
Message-ID: <p06230916bf8fe48e3ad3@[192.168.1.104]>

X, We Mac OSX users don't need to run ANY antivirus software, if 
we're on a router-buffered LAN. It's just not an issue. I don't know 
what they would protect us from...

And yes all 4 of my G4's are on an internet-connected lan.

I gave up on Symantic/Norton for disk repair about 4 years ago. Junk.

sqb

>
>I wonder, does NAV for mac interupt every applescript using a file? I
>remember NAV being installed on my
>old mac, and this rogue applet sending all my files to the trash without
>peep from NAV!!!
>
>Symantec products had a good track record fixing MacOS drives' follies in
>the old days where Apple's
>Disk First Aid came too short but later on PCs, pretty much every norton
>product caused major
>problems over and over...

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Nov  3 11:34:34 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 10:34:34 -0600
Subject: I guess I stumped everyone. :(
In-Reply-To: <CF5D9ABF-85A0-4262-88C2-2539990F3561@conncoll.edu>
References: <BF8EDDB3.2F117%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<CF5D9ABF-85A0-4262-88C2-2539990F3561@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <436A3C1A.3060104@hyperactivesw.com>

Charles Hartman wrote:
> Wow! Until I read this message it didn't occur to me that the  
> preOpenStack in the main stack of the database app I'm working on was  
> being called (I just checked) every time one of the five or six  
> substacks opens. Since that handler opens the database and reads much  
> of it into RAM, that would have gotten pretty awful if I hadn't known  
> until there was a lot of data in there . . .
> 
> This is a pretty bad pitfall. I've been surprised by this before  
> (though I forgot it) -- that "preOpenStack" doesn't mean, as it so  
> obviously seems to, "preOpenTHISStack" it means this stack and all  its 
> substacks . . .

It isn't really a "pitfall" -- just a normal effect of the standard 
message hierarchy. All system messages go through the same hierarchy. 
The preOpenStack message isn't any different than a "mouseup" or an 
"openfield" or any of the others.

Messages go from the object to the card to the stack to the mainstack to 
the engine (unless there are frontscripts, backscripts, or libraries, 
which also then get inserted.) See Richard Gaskin's scripting conference 
stack on the Message Hierarchy which lays out this behavior clearly, 
complete with charts and graphs.

Stack authors can expect all messages -- including those you generate 
yourself -- to follow this path. Any script in the path that has a 
matching handler will catch the message and execute it.

I don't think it is possible to effectively program in any x-talk 
environment without a firm familiarity with the message hierarchy. When 
I teach people, it is one of the first concepts I introduce.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From esmale at welshpiper.com  Thu Nov  3 11:45:56 2005
From: esmale at welshpiper.com (Erin D. Smale)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 11:45:56 -0500
Subject: Hello from newbie
Message-ID: <436A3EC4.3060909@welshpiper.com>

Not sure if this is appropriate, but I wanted to say hello and introduce 
myself to the list as a new Revolution user. I'm a web programmer that 
uses PHP, javascript, and MySQL most (ASP if I have to, Java if at 
gunpoint). For standalone apps, I dabbled a bit with VB, even less with 
C++, and too much for my liking with Java--none really did everything I 
wanted with the learning time I had available.

But so far, Revolution has *impressed* me at every turn, and I think 
I've found the tool I've been looking for to complete the dozen or so 
programming projects swirling around my head. I'm working through the 
tutorials included with the software, have started reading Dan Shafer's 
book, and find myself wandering around Revolution's great online 
documentation.

Are there any other resources I should be checking out as a new user?

Thanks for reading, and I look forward to learning from this list and 
meeting other users. Cheers,

-- Erin

Check out The Chimera RPG:
http://www.welshpiper.com



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Nov  3 12:02:11 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 18:02:11 +0100
Subject: Hello from newbie
In-Reply-To: <436A3EC4.3060909@welshpiper.com>
References: <436A3EC4.3060909@welshpiper.com>
Message-ID: <D82759B6-FA1F-4B38-85E5-92C41DCFEDBB@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hello Erin,

Welcome to this list: you will find here nice, kind and reactive  
people who like to help.
Be sure that your introduction was very appropriate here :-)
It's the best place to ask questions and learn!

As for finding resources, there are many:
You might check the sites of the Revolution webring: http:// 
h.webring.com/hub?ring=runtimerevoluti1
The Google directory: http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/ 
Programming/Languages/Transcript/
The dMoz directory: http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/ 
Transcript/

You might be interested too in one free plugin for DreamCard/ 
Revolution named "Resources Picker" you will find on my website:  
http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
There, you will find also about 20 tutorials available through  
another plugin named "Tutorials Picker".

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 3 nov. 05 ? 17:45, Erin D. Smale a ?crit :

> Not sure if this is appropriate, but I wanted to say hello and  
> introduce myself to the list as a new Revolution user. I'm a web  
> programmer that uses PHP, javascript, and MySQL most (ASP if I have  
> to, Java if at gunpoint). For standalone apps, I dabbled a bit with  
> VB, even less with C++, and too much for my liking with Java--none  
> really did everything I wanted with the learning time I had available.
>
> But so far, Revolution has *impressed* me at every turn, and I  
> think I've found the tool I've been looking for to complete the  
> dozen or so programming projects swirling around my head. I'm  
> working through the tutorials included with the software, have  
> started reading Dan Shafer's book, and find myself wandering around  
> Revolution's great online documentation.
>
> Are there any other resources I should be checking out as a new user?
>
> Thanks for reading, and I look forward to learning from this list  
> and meeting other users. Cheers,

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Nov  3 12:06:08 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 15:06:08 -0200
Subject: Hello from newbie
In-Reply-To: <436A3EC4.3060909@welshpiper.com>
References: <436A3EC4.3060909@welshpiper.com>
Message-ID: <4F04B17D-11BB-461D-B8BE-5D29100774C7@mac.com>

Erin,

First of all, be very welcome. You just found the best resource ever  
to Revolution which is this mailing list. If you have doubts or  
questions, leave a post here, someone will point you in the right  
direction. I find this list the most amusing thing ever!!! People are  
friendly, code-sharing and very fun. xTalk languages are somewhat  
different to the workflow php/c coders are used to, but once you  
understand what you're doing, there's no turning back.

Since you styled yourself as a web coder, I'll put some links I find  
cool so that you can have more resources. As some readers will  
probably be aware, the first thing I always recommend is Richard  
Gaskin "beyond the browser" article <http://www.fourthworld.com/ 
embassy/articles/netapps.html>, we're living in a techworld that is  
too centered into the browser app, and this article brings a fresh  
wind into our clouded ambient.

If you like CGI then you can look into libCGI, launch Revolution  
Online and go to Rodney Tamblyn user (which is Rodney). Jacqueline  
Landman Gay did a very nice tutorial on CGI with Rev <http:// 
www.hyperactivesw.com/cgitutorial/index.html>.

As your knowledge grows, it will become clear that the message  
hierarchy is one of the great things about Rev and you can learn all  
about the message system using Dar Scott Message Primer <http:// 
www.swcp.com/dsc/revstacks.html>.

Well, as I said, be welcome! have fun!

cheers
andre alves garzia



On Nov 3, 2005, at 2:45 PM, Erin D. Smale wrote:

> Not sure if this is appropriate, but I wanted to say hello and  
> introduce myself to the list as a new Revolution user. I'm a web  
> programmer that uses PHP, javascript, and MySQL most (ASP if I have  
> to, Java if at gunpoint). For standalone apps, I dabbled a bit with  
> VB, even less with C++, and too much for my liking with Java--none  
> really did everything I wanted with the learning time I had available.
>
> But so far, Revolution has *impressed* me at every turn, and I  
> think I've found the tool I've been looking for to complete the  
> dozen or so programming projects swirling around my head. I'm  
> working through the tutorials included with the software, have  
> started reading Dan Shafer's book, and find myself wandering around  
> Revolution's great online documentation.
>
> Are there any other resources I should be checking out as a new user?
>
> Thanks for reading, and I look forward to learning from this list  
> and meeting other users. Cheers,
>
> -- Erin
>
> Check out The Chimera RPG:
> http://www.welshpiper.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov  3 12:19:01 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 09:19:01 -0800
Subject: Hello from newbie
In-Reply-To: <436A3EC4.3060909@welshpiper.com>
References: <436A3EC4.3060909@welshpiper.com>
Message-ID: <436A4685.8070708@fourthworld.com>

Erin D. Smale wrote:
> Revolution has *impressed* me at every turn, and I think 
> I've found the tool I've been looking for to complete the dozen or so 
> programming projects swirling around my head. I'm working through the 
> tutorials included with the software, have started reading Dan Shafer's 
> book, and find myself wandering around Revolution's great online 
> documentation.
> 
> Are there any other resources I should be checking out as a new user?

revJournal - a Revolution webzine, with articles and tutorials from many 
of the most active members of this list:
<http://www.revjournal.com/>


A lot of people tell me this article helped them get their head wrapped 
around the message path:
<http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/revolution_message_path.html>


Jacque Gay and RunRev Ltd have teamed up with more than a dozen 
contributors to create this wonderful tutorial series:
<http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences/>


And as an experienced developer picking up Rev as a second language, you 
might appreciate the helpful nerdliness of this article:

Fourth World Scripting Style Guide:
Helpful tips for xTalk, Lingo, and other 4GLs
<http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/scriptstyle.html>


--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From SimPLsol at aol.com  Thu Nov  3 12:35:22 2005
From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 12:35:22 EST
Subject: Strange field wraps with tabs
Message-ID: <192.4c2914c2.309ba45a@aol.com>

Xavier,
Thank you, again, for the suggestion that tabs might be causing the strange 
display problems in large fields. I changed the delimiter from tab to "|" and 
the display problems disappeared.
The original reason for the tabs was to make the data more transportable - 
especially to spreadsheets. But it is easy to convert it:

replace "|" with tab in field "Datafield"

Or, if one wants to see the data more easily, use " | " - with a space before 
and after the bar, then

replace " | " with tab in field "Datafield"
Good advice. 
Paul Looney


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov  3 12:41:30 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 09:41:30 -0800
Subject: Strange field wraps with tabs
In-Reply-To: <192.4c2914c2.309ba45a@aol.com>
References: <192.4c2914c2.309ba45a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <436A4BCA.1070808@fourthworld.com>

SimPLsol at aol.com wrote:
> Xavier,
> Thank you, again, for the suggestion that tabs might be causing the strange 
> display problems in large fields. I changed the delimiter from tab to "|" and 
> the display problems disappeared.
> The original reason for the tabs was to make the data more transportable - 
> especially to spreadsheets. But it is easy to convert it:
> 
> replace "|" with tab in field "Datafield"
> 
> Or, if one wants to see the data more easily, use " | " - with a space before 
> and after the bar, then
> 
> replace " | " with tab in field "Datafield"

Just make sure you never do business with C|Net, as their trademark will 
  break your data parsing.

In my tests here I found odd rendering even without tabs -- see this post:
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2005-November/069319.html>

On the bright side, there's rarely a need to display that many columns 
to a user in most layouts.  In DB apps it's common to display a useful 
subset of fields in a list for the user to pick from, and then edit 
fields in a detail view showing all fields.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From SimPLsol at aol.com  Thu Nov  3 12:58:14 2005
From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 12:58:14 EST
Subject: Strange field wraps with tabs
Message-ID: <191.4b8753e1.309ba9b6@aol.com>

Richard,
Agreed. Sane people will seldom need to concern themselves with this. I have 
over a hundred tabs in my lines (certainly not real world).
By the way, the vertical tab (ASCII 11) displays in the message box and in 
fields but not in the script editor.
PL


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Nov  3 13:44:49 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 12:44:49 -0600
Subject: A must have stack for all...
In-Reply-To: <p0623091dbf8fc44242ec@[69.19.167.219]>
References: <20051103031135.011D282510C@mail.runrev.com>
	<p0623091dbf8fc44242ec@[69.19.167.219]>
Message-ID: <436A5AA1.2080607@chipp.com>

Jim,

Contact me offlist and I'll work w/you trying to debug it.
Offlist, because I'll probably end up giving you some server settings to 
our mail server for you to test against.
best,
Chipp


Jim Hurley wrote:
>>
>> Message: 12
>> Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 17:14:45 -0600
>> From: Chipp Walters <chipp at chipp.com>
>> Subject: A must have stack for all...
>> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> Message-ID: <43694865.7040800 at chipp.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> altEmailHarness
>>     by Chipp Walters using Sean Shao's GREAT libSmtp253
> 
> 
> 
> Chipp,
> 
> Thanks for this. Don't have any  immediate need yet, but nice to know it 
> is there for the future.
> 
> Unfortunately it doesn't work for me.
> 
> In the log I get: "Opening true" followed quickly by "Closing 
> connection," and then a dialog box: "Send failed"
> 
> I tried stepping through the script in the debugger and the failure 
> occurs at the line:
> 
> start using stack "libSmtp253"
> 
> That stack shows in the Application Browser.
> 
> I haven't figured out how to step into the substack for further debugging.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 
> 



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Nov  3 14:19:57 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 20:19:57 +0100
Subject: Strange field wraps with tabs
In-Reply-To: <192.4c2914c2.309ba45a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20051103184455.5C55D824DC7@mail.runrev.com>

Hi Paul

Im only too glad to help.

Is this bugzillaed? I didn't find it in my last scan... 

;)
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> SimPLsol at aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 6:35 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Strange field wraps with tabs
> 
> Xavier,
> Thank you, again, for the suggestion that tabs might be 
> causing the strange display problems in large fields. I 
> changed the delimiter from tab to "|" and the display 
> problems disappeared.
> The original reason for the tabs was to make the data more 
> transportable - especially to spreadsheets. But it is easy to 
> convert it:
> 
> replace "|" with tab in field "Datafield"
> 
> Or, if one wants to see the data more easily, use " | " - 
> with a space before and after the bar, then
> 
> replace " | " with tab in field "Datafield"
> Good advice. 
> Paul Looney
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From fgiannet at hotmail.com  Thu Nov  3 14:56:46 2005
From: fgiannet at hotmail.com (Fred Giannetto)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:56:46 -0500
Subject: Trying to return results from a query run on the database
In-Reply-To: <A355DAF7-FB9B-4E53-9164-3910D006B8F2@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <BAY106-F2708542489B45B05F6009CD7610@phx.gbl>

Thank you Trevor,

The function executes but only returns the Database ID connection instead of 
the results of the query.  Anyone know why it would be doing this?

All best Always
Fred


>From: Trevor DeVore <lists at mangomultimedia.com>
>Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Subject: Re: Trying to return results from a query run on the database
>Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 16:10:48 -0800
>
>On Nov 1, 2005, at 4:03 PM, Fred Giannetto wrote:
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>I am trying to create a list of data entered into the database.
>>
>>I have recently tried
>>
>>get revDataFromQuery(tDatabaseEnroll,"SELECT lname, fname, ID from  
>>usrev.results")
>>  --revQueryDatabase(tDatabaseEnroll,select "lname", "fname", "ID"  from 
>>usrev.results")
>>  --revQueryDatabase(tDatabaseEnroll,"select `lname`, `fname`, `ID`  from 
>>usrev.results")
>>  answer it
>
>Hi Fred,
>
>First statement: Your parameters are wrong.  The parameters for  
>revDataFromQuery are:
>
>revDataFromQuery([columnDelim],[rowDelim],databaseID,SQLQuery [,varsList])
>
>Second statement: Two things - revQueryDatabase is a function and  quotes 
>are wrong.  You need to wrap your entire string in double  quotes.  If you 
>want to embed double quotes in the string you can use  the format function 
>or something like:
>
>get "SELECT "& quote& "fname"& quote&", "& quote& "ID"& ...
>
>Third Statment: revQueryDatabase is a function.  The examples in the  docs 
>are incorrect.  Call it like this (the transcript should all be  on one 
>line):
>
>put revQueryDatabase(tDatabaseEnroll,"select `lname`, `fname`, `ID`  from 
>usrev.results") into tRecordSetID
>
>
>--
>Trevor DeVore
>Blue Mango Multimedia
>trevor at mangomultimedia.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From fgiannet at hotmail.com  Thu Nov  3 15:07:53 2005
From: fgiannet at hotmail.com (Fred Giannetto)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:07:53 -0500
Subject: Trying to return results from a query run on the database
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-F2708542489B45B05F6009CD7610@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY106-F33B9A8F2A251F2F4F0CED2D7610@phx.gbl>

It seems that it is putting the connection database ID number without 
executing the SQL statement.


>From: "Fred Giannetto" <fgiannet at hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Subject: Re: Trying to return results from a query run on the database
>Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:56:46 -0500
>
>Thank you Trevor,
>
>The function executes but only returns the Database ID connection instead 
>of the results of the query.  Anyone know why it would be doing this?
>
>All best Always
>Fred
>
>
>>From: Trevor DeVore <lists at mangomultimedia.com>
>>Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>>Subject: Re: Trying to return results from a query run on the database
>>Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 16:10:48 -0800
>>
>>On Nov 1, 2005, at 4:03 PM, Fred Giannetto wrote:
>>
>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>I am trying to create a list of data entered into the database.
>>>
>>>I have recently tried
>>>
>>>get revDataFromQuery(tDatabaseEnroll,"SELECT lname, fname, ID from  
>>>usrev.results")
>>>  --revQueryDatabase(tDatabaseEnroll,select "lname", "fname", "ID"  from 
>>>usrev.results")
>>>  --revQueryDatabase(tDatabaseEnroll,"select `lname`, `fname`, `ID`  from 
>>>usrev.results")
>>>  answer it
>>
>>Hi Fred,
>>
>>First statement: Your parameters are wrong.  The parameters for  
>>revDataFromQuery are:
>>
>>revDataFromQuery([columnDelim],[rowDelim],databaseID,SQLQuery [,varsList])
>>
>>Second statement: Two things - revQueryDatabase is a function and  quotes 
>>are wrong.  You need to wrap your entire string in double  quotes.  If you 
>>want to embed double quotes in the string you can use  the format function 
>>or something like:
>>
>>get "SELECT "& quote& "fname"& quote&", "& quote& "ID"& ...
>>
>>Third Statment: revQueryDatabase is a function.  The examples in the  docs 
>>are incorrect.  Call it like this (the transcript should all be  on one 
>>line):
>>
>>put revQueryDatabase(tDatabaseEnroll,"select `lname`, `fname`, `ID`  from 
>>usrev.results") into tRecordSetID
>>
>>
>>--
>>Trevor DeVore
>>Blue Mango Multimedia
>>trevor at mangomultimedia.com
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-revolution mailing list
>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>subscription preferences:
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Nov  3 15:17:48 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 12:17:48 -0800
Subject: Trying to return results from a query run on the database
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-F2708542489B45B05F6009CD7610@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY106-F2708542489B45B05F6009CD7610@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <F3728CC0-00FA-4B96-8AE1-DACE33305A3F@mangomultimedia.com>


On Nov 3, 2005, at 11:56 AM, Fred Giannetto wrote:

> Thank you Trevor,
>
> The function executes but only returns the Database ID connection  
> instead of the results of the query.  Anyone know why it would be  
> doing this?

revQueryDatabase returns the cursor id returned from the database.   
You then have to use:

revCurrentRecordIsLast
revDatabaseColumnNumbered/revDatabaseColumnNamed
revMoveToNextRecord
etc

to navigate through the results.

revDataFromQuery will return the results without the need of using a  
cursor.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From fgiannet at hotmail.com  Thu Nov  3 15:34:04 2005
From: fgiannet at hotmail.com (Fred Giannetto)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:34:04 -0500
Subject: Trying to return results from a query run on the database
In-Reply-To: <F3728CC0-00FA-4B96-8AE1-DACE33305A3F@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <BAY106-F1898847A78119FBF11DB20D7610@phx.gbl>

Outstanding!  Thank you Trevor.  It is all set.

All best Always
Fred


>From: Trevor DeVore <lists at mangomultimedia.com>
>Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Subject: Re: Trying to return results from a query run on the database
>Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 12:17:48 -0800
>
>
>On Nov 3, 2005, at 11:56 AM, Fred Giannetto wrote:
>
>>Thank you Trevor,
>>
>>The function executes but only returns the Database ID connection  instead 
>>of the results of the query.  Anyone know why it would be  doing this?
>
>revQueryDatabase returns the cursor id returned from the database.   You 
>then have to use:
>
>revCurrentRecordIsLast
>revDatabaseColumnNumbered/revDatabaseColumnNamed
>revMoveToNextRecord
>etc
>
>to navigate through the results.
>
>revDataFromQuery will return the results without the need of using a  
>cursor.
>
>
>--
>Trevor DeVore
>Blue Mango Multimedia
>trevor at mangomultimedia.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From rev at armbase.com  Thu Nov  3 15:36:04 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 20:36:04 +0000
Subject: option button remains grabbed
In-Reply-To: <20051102210948.envknwg9w4wwcsos@webmail.armbase.com>
References: <20051102210948.envknwg9w4wwcsos@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <20051103203604.no9iqdhrwgs048ko@webmail.armbase.com>

Quoting rev at armbase.com:

> Hi All

Hi Again

If I change the option key to be activated by the 3rd mousebutton thebn 
it is ok
but if both use the first mousebutton then there is a problem.

Any ideas?
cheers
bob
>
> I have an option button added to a form with the script
> on mousedown
>    if the mainstack of this stack is Armbase then
>        if the controlkey is down then
>            grab me
>            end if
>            end if
>            end mousedown
>
> When the button is on the destination stack it can be grabbed when 
> the control
> key is down. OK no surprise there.... but it remains grabbed and no matter
> where the mouse goes (and if you mouse down twice) it follows te cursor.
>
> Any ideas?
> I tried it on a fresh stack and it does the same. So no stack legacy.
>
>
> All the best
> Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>





From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Nov  3 15:50:36 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:50:36 -0600
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <8C7AE54CACDE4DA-DB4-3AD1@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>
	<8C7AE54CACDE4DA-DB4-3AD1@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <436A781C.3020308@chipp.com>

Richard,

In many situations with managed clients using active directory domains, 
writing to the 'Programs Folder' is *not permitted*. This is 
particularly a problem in Enterprise and can also be a problem for 
'Guest' users.

That is the reason why I use the AppPath or the UserPath method.

best,

Chipp

PS I've asked Chris about how to figure out the removable drive thing on 
XP w/out vbs...He's processing...(unfortunately, I'm using Chris 1.0, 
the 2.0 version *still* hasn't been released).




From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Nov  3 15:53:14 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:53:14 -0600
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <436A78BA.1050306@chipp.com>

Yep, how would you account for different users having different prefs if 
you store the prefs only in the Program Files folder? Of course, if 
that's not a concern, then _fire away_ !

Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Could there be a downside to writing prefs or other such app-managed 
> data to a folder either within or at the same level as our program's 
> folder if we have permissions to do so?



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov  3 15:58:45 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 12:58:45 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <436A781C.3020308@chipp.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>	<8C7AE54CACDE4DA-DB4-3AD1@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com>
	<436A781C.3020308@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <436A7A05.9050407@fourthworld.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:
> Richard,
> 
> In many situations with managed clients using active directory domains, 
> writing to the 'Programs Folder' is *not permitted*. This is 
> particularly a problem in Enterprise and can also be a problem for 
> 'Guest' users.
> 
> That is the reason why I use the AppPath or the UserPath method.

Precisely why the scheme Paul and Bill came up with seems to hold up 
thus far:

If an app can't write to its own directory, it must be installed on the 
hard drive and not running from a removable device.


-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov  3 16:00:08 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 13:00:08 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <436A78BA.1050306@chipp.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>
	<436A78BA.1050306@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <436A7A58.3020709@fourthworld.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:
> Yep, how would you account for different users having different prefs if 
> you store the prefs only in the Program Files folder? Of course, if 
> that's not a concern, then _fire away_ !

How many different users would be running the app from the same 
removable device?

If installed on the hard drive and able to write to the app's folder, we 
could differentiate prefs internally by $username.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Nov  3 16:04:06 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:04:06 -0600
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <436A7A05.9050407@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>	<8C7AE54CACDE4DA-DB4-3AD1@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com>	<436A781C.3020308@chipp.com>
	<436A7A05.9050407@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <436A7B46.8080901@chipp.com>

Hmm,
I'm probably just coming late to the party.

But, you say:
"If an app can't write to its own directory, it must be installed on the 
hard drive and not running from a removable device." <-- TRUE (unless 
it's on a CD-ROM or the removable device is LOCKED)

of course the inverse isn't true:

"If an app can write to it's own directory, it must be running from a 
removable device." <-- NOT TRUE

and I thought you wanted:

"I'd like to be able to determine if an app is running from a removable 
drive."

Two different matters, I think. But, I'm sure I'm missing something.

Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Chipp Walters wrote:
> 
>> Richard,
>>
>> In many situations with managed clients using active directory 
>> domains, writing to the 'Programs Folder' is *not permitted*. This is 
>> particularly a problem in Enterprise and can also be a problem for 
>> 'Guest' users.
>>
>> That is the reason why I use the AppPath or the UserPath method.
> 
> 
> Precisely why the scheme Paul and Bill came up with seems to hold up 
> thus far:
> 
> If an app can't write to its own directory, it must be installed on the 
> hard drive and not running from a removable device.
> 
> 

-- 
--------------
Chipp Walters
www.altuit.com



From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Nov  3 16:20:27 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:20:27 -0600
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <436A7F1B.6070304@chipp.com>

OK,

I'm caught up now and get what you're doing. Sorry for wasting bandwidth 
on the list.

You're right, using an environment variable can help manage the user 
prefs. Overall, I like the idea of just putting stuff in the same folder 
as the app, for portability reasons. But, it does present a bit more 
complicated situation for debugging/supporting an app where prefs can be 
stored in multiple places.

FWIW, all my apps use the same altSplash startup screen engine, which 
automatically downloads the mainstack to the proper user folder (Mac and 
PC). In that way, the .exe is portable, as long as you have a 
connection. But, it doesn't store prefs with the .exe. Hmmm. Might be a 
good idea!

-Chipp

Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Keeping our focus on the goal of writing portable apps (that is, apps 
> that can run self-contained on a removable device without leaving 
> anything on the host machine), the problem could be defined not as "Are 
> we on a removable drive?"  but "Can we write to our own program folder?"



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov  3 16:38:45 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 13:38:45 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <436A7B46.8080901@chipp.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>	<8C7AE54CACDE4DA-DB4-3AD1@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com>	<436A781C.3020308@chipp.com>	<436A7A05.9050407@fourthworld.com>
	<436A7B46.8080901@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <436A8365.5020702@fourthworld.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:
> Hmm,
> I'm probably just coming late to the party.
> 
> But, you say:
> "If an app can't write to its own directory, it must be installed on the 
> hard drive and not running from a removable device." <-- TRUE (unless 
> it's on a CD-ROM or the removable device is LOCKED)
> 
> of course the inverse isn't true:
> 
> "If an app can write to it's own directory, it must be running from a 
> removable device." <-- NOT TRUE
> 
> and I thought you wanted:
> 
> "I'd like to be able to determine if an app is running from a removable 
> drive."
> 
> Two different matters, I think. But, I'm sure I'm missing something.

Just a couple of posts which led to the mismatch between the thread name 
and the current goal/possible solution. :)

Given that it seems to require an external and/or too much processing 
time to find out if the drive is removable, one solution proposed by 
Bill Vlahos and Paul Looney was to explore the possibility of making the 
app behaved as self-contained as it can anywhere it's run, using the 
OS-mandated folders only when necessary.

This approach takes care of apps running from removable drives, and 
still accomodates apps running from CDs or installed on a system where 
the app can't write to is own folder.

The only downside to self-contained apps is that there's no file-type 
association present in the host system's registry, so documents must be 
opened from within the app rather than double-clicked.  But this factor 
is independent of any method used to determine what type of drive it's 
one; it's just an inherent part of being a portable app.

I know this approach won't win any friends at either Apple or Microsoft, 
since both prefer to dictate where we put files.  But aside from being 
non-conformant, it would seem harmless and carries some benefit for the 
user by allowing the same app to run well with the smallest footprint 
possible on any machine it's run on - it would behave well when run from 
a hard drive and be completely portable on removable drive.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Thu Nov  3 16:38:43 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 13:38:43 -0800
Subject: ANN: TreeView in Revolution!!
In-Reply-To: <436A7B46.8080901@chipp.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>
	<8C7AE54CACDE4DA-DB4-3AD1@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com>
	<436A781C.3020308@chipp.com>	<436A7A05.9050407@fourthworld.com>
	<436A7B46.8080901@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <p06230920bf902d674de4@[192.168.1.104]>

I just got an email from Luis L. Rod?guez Oro, 
who asked me to offer his stack to the list. I 
guess he feels  his English isn't good enough.

I don't know about that - looks fine to me - but 
anyway his stack "TreeView in Revolution" was 
nicely done, and my normally crusty self felt I 
owed it to the list to get it out there.

It's a remarkable, well-written and visually 
pretty Tree View in Revolution, with routines to 
import tab delimited text files.
Well-commented code, but of course in Spanish. Reads pretty easy anyway.

For now I'll place it on my server at this URL. You'll need to unstuff it.

http://upload.barncard.com/TreeView2.5.zip







>From: Luis L. Rod?guez Oro <luisr at ispscu.rimed.cu>
>Subject: TreeView in Revolution!!
>Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 15:19:29 -0500
>
>Hello.
>
>Could you send the attachment to your revolution 
>List? I don't speak much english! :(
>Report the Bugs to my emails
>
>Thank you very much
>
>Best Regard
>Luis L. Rodr?guez Oro
><mailto:darkroll0x001 at yahoo.es>darkroll0x001 at yahoo.es
>
-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -

From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Nov  3 16:45:53 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:45:53 -0600
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <436A8365.5020702@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>	<8C7AE54CACDE4DA-DB4-3AD1@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com>	<436A781C.3020308@chipp.com>	<436A7A05.9050407@fourthworld.com>	<436A7B46.8080901@chipp.com>
	<436A8365.5020702@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <436A8511.5010708@chipp.com>



Richard Gaskin wrote:

> The only downside to self-contained apps is that there's no file-type 
> association present in the host system's registry, so documents must be 
> opened from within the app rather than double-clicked.  But this factor 
> is independent of any method used to determine what type of drive it's 
> one; it's just an inherent part of being a portable app.

With ButtonGadget having to 'register' it's filetype, I'm aware of this 
issue on the PC.

Here's how I've worked around it. Everytime BG launches, it checks the 
registry to make sure it's registered correctly (filepaths, filetypes, 
icons, etc..).

I do this on every launch instead of during installation and it takes 
only a second. Not sure how this works on Macs.



From garretthylltun at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 17:03:16 2005
From: garretthylltun at gmail.com (Garrett R. Hylltun)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 14:03:16 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <436A7A58.3020709@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com> <436A78BA.1050306@chipp.com>
	<436A7A58.3020709@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20051103140316.4a3051e2.garretthylltun@gmail.com>


Actually, running apps from removable devices is far more common and growing in popularity.

I myself had written a few apps in my Windows days to run off of my iPod Mini.  As well, I also had Firefox, Thunderbird, Nvu and several other programs setup on my iPod Mini.

I can't speak for OSX, but I know from my use of Windows and Linux that there was no problem writing to the removable device.

Typically, the devices are writable since they are not connected to system critic locations on the operating system.

A few friends and I were discussing this for a project using wxBasic and suggested making a program that manages all the programs on such a device.

Here are a few links that *maybe* can help

http://johnhaller.com/jh/development/portable_apps/
http://www.portablefreeware.com/all.php
http://www.portablefreeware.com/about.php

-Garrett


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov  3 17:05:47 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:05:47 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <436A8511.5010708@chipp.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>	<8C7AE54CACDE4DA-DB4-3AD1@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com>	<436A781C.3020308@chipp.com>	<436A7A05.9050407@fourthworld.com>	<436A7B46.8080901@chipp.com>	<436A8365.5020702@fourthworld.com>
	<436A8511.5010708@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <436A89BB.3080603@fourthworld.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:
> 
> 
> Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> The only downside to self-contained apps is that there's no file-type 
>> association present in the host system's registry, so documents must 
>> be opened from within the app rather than double-clicked.  But this 
>> factor is independent of any method used to determine what type of 
>> drive it's one; it's just an inherent part of being a portable app.
> 
> 
> With ButtonGadget having to 'register' it's filetype, I'm aware of this 
> issue on the PC.
> 
> Here's how I've worked around it. Everytime BG launches, it checks the 
> registry to make sure it's registered correctly (filepaths, filetypes, 
> icons, etc..).
> 
> I do this on every launch instead of during installation and it takes 
> only a second. Not sure how this works on Macs.

It's automatic on Macs, just part of what the Finder does when it 
encounters an app on any mounted volume.

With Rev's ability to read and write the Windows directory, it would be 
simple enough to make the registry entries for the file type 
association.  But for true portability this should not happen when 
running from a removable drive, the goal being zero-footprint when the 
drive is removed.

That's the one weak link in the proposed solution:  if we're installed 
on the hard drive and can write to our app's own folder, how can we know 
whether we should write a registry entry?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Nov  3 17:11:53 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 14:11:53 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <436A89BB.3080603@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>	<8C7AE54CACDE4DA-DB4-3AD1@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com>	<436A781C.3020308@chipp.com>	<436A7A05.9050407@fourthworld.com>	<436A7B46.8080901@chipp.com>	<436A8365.5020702@fourthworld.com>
	<436A8511.5010708@chipp.com> <436A89BB.3080603@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <E177968F-5166-453C-A605-529F196AD6E0@mangomultimedia.com>

On Nov 3, 2005, at 2:05 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
> With Rev's ability to read and write the Windows directory, it  
> would be simple enough to make the registry entries for the file  
> type association.  But for true portability this should not happen  
> when running from a removable drive, the goal being zero-footprint  
> when the drive is removed.

Can't you just clear out the registry entries when the app quits?   
Even if your app crashes, it would clean itself up next time it ran.   
This way while the app was running people could double-click files  
and have them open in your app.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Nov  3 17:13:26 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:13:26 -0600
Subject: stumped problem solved! :)
In-Reply-To: <e3.1fd735cf.309b665e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BF8FE7A6.2F1FF%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/3/05 7:10 AM, "AbilityForms at aol.com" <AbilityForms at aol.com> wrote:


> Well, I downloaded a fresh Rev copy then foolishly opened one of my existing
> stacks and my problems persisted. I don't have any plugins, substacks,
> frontScripts or backScripts. The oversize windows are a problem on all my
> stacks. I 
> appreciate Ken Ray's input. I have a preOpenStack handler for all my stacks
> and 
> it resizes each stack. I changed it to a openstack handler. Then I remembered
> I used a "Start Using stack handler" it was causing the same problem as Ken
> had suggested with substacks. When I eliminated the conflict in the openstack
> of the "using" stack my problems vanished! Hurray! I knew there had to be an
> answer. I really appreciate the help. This newbie needs a lot of hand holding.

Congratulations, Joe! I'm glad you got it all worked out...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov  3 17:15:34 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:15:34 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <E177968F-5166-453C-A605-529F196AD6E0@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>	<8C7AE54CACDE4DA-DB4-3AD1@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com>	<436A781C.3020308@chipp.com>	<436A7A05.9050407@fourthworld.com>	<436A7B46.8080901@chipp.com>	<436A8365.5020702@fourthworld.com>	<436A8511.5010708@chipp.com>
	<436A89BB.3080603@fourthworld.com>
	<E177968F-5166-453C-A605-529F196AD6E0@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <436A8C06.8050001@fourthworld.com>

Trevor DeVore wrote:
> On Nov 3, 2005, at 2:05 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>>
>> With Rev's ability to read and write the Windows directory, it  would 
>> be simple enough to make the registry entries for the file  type 
>> association.  But for true portability this should not happen  when 
>> running from a removable drive, the goal being zero-footprint  when 
>> the drive is removed.
> 
> 
> Can't you just clear out the registry entries when the app quits?   Even 
> if your app crashes, it would clean itself up next time it ran.   This 
> way while the app was running people could double-click files  and have 
> them open in your app.

We could, but it obviates the biggest benefit of the file-type 
association:  being able to launch the app by double-clicking a document.

We'd still get that behavior on Mac, just not on Win or Linux (the 
latter has messy and inconsistent mechanisms for such associations 
anyway; barely worth bothering with until the teams that make Linux 
window managers get together and use a single simple standard).

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov  3 17:19:36 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:19:36 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <20051103140316.4a3051e2.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>
	<436A78BA.1050306@chipp.com>	<436A7A58.3020709@fourthworld.com>
	<20051103140316.4a3051e2.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <436A8CF8.2020303@fourthworld.com>

Garrett R. Hylltun wrote:
 > Actually, running apps from removable devices is far more common
 > and growing in popularity.

How do other portable apps handle the customary behavior of being able 
to launch an app by double-clicking one of its documents?  Or it is 
considered acceptable to blow that off for portable apps?

And if we do ignore that for portable apps, assuming we'd like to ship a 
single app for both portable and installed use, how can we know we're 
running installed so that we could write the file association entry to 
the registry as customers would expect for a hard-drive-installed app?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Nov  3 17:24:43 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 20:24:43 -0200
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <436A8CF8.2020303@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com> <436A78BA.1050306@chipp.com>
	<436A7A58.3020709@fourthworld.com>
	<20051103140316.4a3051e2.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
	<436A8CF8.2020303@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <C761917A-A4E5-40C2-A428-FC22B9F97B2C@mac.com>


On Nov 3, 2005, at 8:19 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Garrett R. Hylltun wrote:
> > Actually, running apps from removable devices is far more common
> > and growing in popularity.
>
> How do other portable apps handle the customary behavior of being  
> able to launch an app by double-clicking one of its documents?  Or  
> it is considered acceptable to blow that off for portable apps?
>
> And if we do ignore that for portable apps, assuming we'd like to  
> ship a single app for both portable and installed use, how can we  
> know we're running installed so that we could write the file  
> association entry to the registry as customers would expect for a  
> hard-drive-installed app?
>

Richard et all,

do we have some kind of autorun.inf for removable drives like we have  
for CD-ROMs? If we do, then we could use a small stub app to register  
our apps as soon as the drive is plugged, this would be the bes  
behaviour, for if we simply fiddle with the registry, then the user  
unmount the drive, he'll have some info on the registry and no target  
for that info... registering on mount would be cool.

does anyone know if autorun.inf will work on usb drives?

cheers
andre



> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Managing Editor, revJournal
>  _______________________________________________________
>  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Nov  3 17:26:43 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:26:43 -0600
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <C761917A-A4E5-40C2-A428-FC22B9F97B2C@mac.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>
	<436A78BA.1050306@chipp.com>	<436A7A58.3020709@fourthworld.com>	<20051103140316.4a3051e2.garretthylltun@gmail.com>	<436A8CF8.2020303@fourthworld.com>
	<C761917A-A4E5-40C2-A428-FC22B9F97B2C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <436A8EA3.7070001@chipp.com>



Andre Garzia wrote:

> does anyone know if autorun.inf will work on usb drives?

Last I checked, it didn't.

-Chipp



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Nov  3 17:27:29 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 14:27:29 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <436A8C06.8050001@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>	<8C7AE54CACDE4DA-DB4-3AD1@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com>	<436A781C.3020308@chipp.com>	<436A7A05.9050407@fourthworld.com>	<436A7B46.8080901@chipp.com>	<436A8365.5020702@fourthworld.com>	<436A8511.5010708@chipp.com>
	<436A89BB.3080603@fourthworld.com>
	<E177968F-5166-453C-A605-529F196AD6E0@mangomultimedia.com>
	<436A8C06.8050001@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <D1F4C8F3-383E-4B0F-8C01-D1E9F201CFA0@mangomultimedia.com>

On Nov 3, 2005, at 2:15 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> We could, but it obviates the biggest benefit of the file-type  
> association:  being able to launch the app by double-clicking a  
> document.

True, you would only get double-click, icon associations, etc. while  
the app was running.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Nov  3 17:29:08 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:29:08 -0600
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <436A8CF8.2020303@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>	<436A78BA.1050306@chipp.com>	<436A7A58.3020709@fourthworld.com>	<20051103140316.4a3051e2.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
	<436A8CF8.2020303@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <436A8F34.5030107@chipp.com>



Richard Gaskin wrote:

> And if we do ignore that for portable apps, assuming we'd like to ship a 
> single app for both portable and installed use, how can we know we're 
> running installed so that we could write the file association entry to 
> the registry as customers would expect for a hard-drive-installed app?

And we're back to the original question :-)
"I'd like to be able to determine if an app is running from a removable 
drive."

Of course, Windows users are IMO more likely to launch the app first, 
then the doc. I believe this is because you never know which app will 
hijack your file association? Quicktime today or Win MediaPlayer 
tomorrow? What version of Pshop will end up winning over TGA files? It's 
all much more confusing on PC's.

-Chipp



From garretthylltun at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 17:32:59 2005
From: garretthylltun at gmail.com (Garrett R. Hylltun)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 14:32:59 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <C761917A-A4E5-40C2-A428-FC22B9F97B2C@mac.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com> <436A78BA.1050306@chipp.com>
	<436A7A58.3020709@fourthworld.com>
	<20051103140316.4a3051e2.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
	<436A8CF8.2020303@fourthworld.com>
	<C761917A-A4E5-40C2-A428-FC22B9F97B2C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20051103143259.039f93f2.garretthylltun@gmail.com>

On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 20:24:43 -0200
Andre Garzia <soapdog at mac.com> wrote:


> does anyone know if autorun.inf will work on usb drives?

It will not work with all removable devices.  When I did my work related to this, my very own iPod Mini would not work with the autorun.inf, even though I had windows set to check and run autorun.inf files from all devices possible.  

But to my dismay, a beta tester had no problem using the autorun.inf from a usb memory stick.  And from resulting discussions with other developers, I found that it was a hit and miss deal, basically depending on hardware issues and os related issues.

So I would say that the autorun.inf would not be reliable in this setting.

-Garrett


From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Nov  3 17:37:34 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 20:37:34 -0200
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <20051103143259.039f93f2.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com> <436A78BA.1050306@chipp.com>
	<436A7A58.3020709@fourthworld.com>
	<20051103140316.4a3051e2.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
	<436A8CF8.2020303@fourthworld.com>
	<C761917A-A4E5-40C2-A428-FC22B9F97B2C@mac.com>
	<20051103143259.039f93f2.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C25CF602-7738-4E83-B6CE-A23949543871@mac.com>

Err..

Folks...

it is possible, but it is horrible?

 From Microsoft USB FAQ: http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/storage/ 
usbfaq.mspx

--- blurb ---
The Autorun capabilities are restricted to CD-ROM drives and fixed  
disk drives. If you need to make a USB storage device perform  
Autorun, the device must not be marked as a removable media device  
and the device must contain an Autorun.inf file and a startup  
application.
The removable media device setting is a flag contained within the  
SCSI Inquiry Data response to the SCSI Inquiry command. Bit 7 of byte  
1 (indexed from 0) is the Removable Media Bit (RMB). A RMB set to  
zero indicates that the device is not a removable media device. A RMB  
of one indicates that the device is a removable media device. Drivers  
obtain this information by using the StorageDeviceProperty request.
For more information about the SCSI Inquiry command, see the T10  
committee located at http://www.t10.org. ?
For more information about the StorageDeviceProperty, see the  
STORAGE_DEVICE_DESCRIPTOR storage structure in the Windows DDK,  
located at http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/ 
en-us/storage/hh/storage/structs-general_3c393126-f5c8-47d8- 
bfb5-6127ce656e9a.xml.asp.
For more information on Autorun.inf files see the "Creating an  
AutoRun-Enabled Application" article located at http:// 
msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/shellcc/platform/shell/ 
programmersguide/shell_basics/shell_basics_extending/autorun/ 
autoplay_works.asp.
--- end of blurb ---

I don't really know if you can alter those flags by coding, if so,  
you could upon first launch of your program, try to make this  
settings, this way all subsequents (does this word exists in  
english?) mounts would benefit from autorun... if you need to work on  
driver, firmware, whatever deeper level than simple coding, then I  
think you're pretty much lost...


Andre


On Nov 3, 2005, at 8:32 PM, Garrett R. Hylltun wrote:

> On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 20:24:43 -0200
> Andre Garzia <soapdog at mac.com> wrote:
>
>
>> does anyone know if autorun.inf will work on usb drives?
>
> It will not work with all removable devices.  When I did my work  
> related to this, my very own iPod Mini would not work with the  
> autorun.inf, even though I had windows set to check and run  
> autorun.inf files from all devices possible.
>
> But to my dismay, a beta tester had no problem using the  
> autorun.inf from a usb memory stick.  And from resulting  
> discussions with other developers, I found that it was a hit and  
> miss deal, basically depending on hardware issues and os related  
> issues.
>
> So I would say that the autorun.inf would not be reliable in this  
> setting.
>
> -Garrett
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From garretthylltun at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 17:45:18 2005
From: garretthylltun at gmail.com (Garrett R. Hylltun)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 14:45:18 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <436A8CF8.2020303@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com> <436A78BA.1050306@chipp.com>
	<436A7A58.3020709@fourthworld.com>
	<20051103140316.4a3051e2.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
	<436A8CF8.2020303@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20051103144518.591e26bb.garretthylltun@gmail.com>

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:19:36 -0800
Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

> Garrett R. Hylltun wrote:
>  > Actually, running apps from removable devices is far more common
>  > and growing in popularity.
> 
> How do other portable apps handle the customary behavior of being able 
> to launch an app by double-clicking one of its documents?  Or it is 
> considered acceptable to blow that off for portable apps?

File associations never came into play during my experience with apps on removable devices.

In fact, the whole point was to be less dependent of the os and more dependent on the app itself in order to avoid such headaches, and to be able to run on almost any possible computer.

In the portable app arena, writing to the windows registry is basically taboo.  Saving settings and preferences is kept to the portable device from which the app is being run from.  Of course, this is not a defacto standard or anything, just a rule of thumb that most portable app authors follow.

You can't dummy proof everything to accomodate the less bright users out there.  You have to hit somewhere in the middle to keep a majority happy with your product.

> And if we do ignore that for portable apps, assuming we'd like to ship a 
> single app for both portable and installed use, how can we know we're 
> running installed so that we could write the file association entry to 
> the registry as customers would expect for a hard-drive-installed app?

Under windows you can obtain information about the devices (not sure how to do so under Rev though as I've only been using it for about a week now.) on the system, grab the path of your own program while it's running and compare the drive letter to the list to see if it's running from na hd or removable device.

If Rev doesn't have that ability and you can't find a command line alternative on windows, I can write you up a little app in another language to do this for you.  It would be around 200 to 400 k in size and would not require any external files.  And it would be able to work on Win95 through WinXP.

-Garrett


From garretthylltun at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 17:59:55 2005
From: garretthylltun at gmail.com (Garrett R. Hylltun)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 14:59:55 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <D1F4C8F3-383E-4B0F-8C01-D1E9F201CFA0@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>
	<8C7AE54CACDE4DA-DB4-3AD1@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com>
	<436A781C.3020308@chipp.com> <436A7A05.9050407@fourthworld.com>
	<436A7B46.8080901@chipp.com> <436A8365.5020702@fourthworld.com>
	<436A8511.5010708@chipp.com> <436A89BB.3080603@fourthworld.com>
	<E177968F-5166-453C-A605-529F196AD6E0@mangomultimedia.com>
	<436A8C06.8050001@fourthworld.com>
	<D1F4C8F3-383E-4B0F-8C01-D1E9F201CFA0@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <20051103145955.750d6cdb.garretthylltun@gmail.com>

On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 14:27:29 -0800
Trevor DeVore <lists at mangomultimedia.com> wrote:

> On Nov 3, 2005, at 2:15 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> > We could, but it obviates the biggest benefit of the file-type  
> > association:  being able to launch the app by double-clicking a  
> > document.
> 
> True, you would only get double-click, icon associations, etc. while  
> the app was running.

You could however, install a temporary executable into the windows temp folder, associate your file extension to that temp executable and have the temp executable start and pass the info to the main executable on the removable drive. 

When your main executable is closing, have it send a message to the temp exe to return the file assocation to it's original state and then close itself, then have the main executable delete the temp executable.

-Garrett


From garretthylltun at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 18:09:30 2005
From: garretthylltun at gmail.com (Garrett R. Hylltun)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 15:09:30 -0800
Subject: Menu Hotkeys
In-Reply-To: <D1F4C8F3-383E-4B0F-8C01-D1E9F201CFA0@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>
	<8C7AE54CACDE4DA-DB4-3AD1@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com>
	<436A781C.3020308@chipp.com> <436A7A05.9050407@fourthworld.com>
	<436A7B46.8080901@chipp.com> <436A8365.5020702@fourthworld.com>
	<436A8511.5010708@chipp.com> <436A89BB.3080603@fourthworld.com>
	<E177968F-5166-453C-A605-529F196AD6E0@mangomultimedia.com>
	<436A8C06.8050001@fourthworld.com>
	<D1F4C8F3-383E-4B0F-8C01-D1E9F201CFA0@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <20051103150930.7cb7274a.garretthylltun@gmail.com>

Greetings,

How do I get the hotkeys to work for the menus?  Such as CTRL+Q for the Exit menu item.

I could not find any reference to this in the documentation.

Thanks in advance,
-Garrett


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Nov  3 18:15:49 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 15:15:49 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <436A781C.3020308@chipp.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>
	<8C7AE54CACDE4DA-DB4-3AD1@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com>
	<436A781C.3020308@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <7122587238.20051103151549@ahsoftware.net>

Chipp-

Thursday, November 3, 2005, 12:50:36 PM, you wrote:

> PS I've asked Chris about how to figure out the removable drive thing on
> XP w/out vbs...He's processing...(unfortunately, I'm using Chris 1.0,
> the 2.0 version *still* hasn't been released).

Again, there's an external call in the sdk to do this. There's a Win32
API call named GetDriveType() that returns DRIVE_REMOVABLE for
removable drives. Including USB flash drives. I doubt this can be done
without an external call, short of seeing if a write works.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Nov  3 18:19:42 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 15:19:42 -0800
Subject: Menu Hotkeys
In-Reply-To: <20051103150930.7cb7274a.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>
	<8C7AE54CACDE4DA-DB4-3AD1@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com>
	<436A781C.3020308@chipp.com> <436A7A05.9050407@fourthworld.com>
	<436A7B46.8080901@chipp.com> <436A8365.5020702@fourthworld.com>
	<436A8511.5010708@chipp.com> <436A89BB.3080603@fourthworld.com>
	<E177968F-5166-453C-A605-529F196AD6E0@mangomultimedia.com>
	<436A8C06.8050001@fourthworld.com>
	<D1F4C8F3-383E-4B0F-8C01-D1E9F201CFA0@mangomultimedia.com>
	<20051103150930.7cb7274a.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200694A1-651E-47E8-8C6C-2672272EC5D6@danshafer.com>

The best way is to use the built-in Revolution Menu Builder tool.  
It's available from the Tools menu when you have a stack open.


On Nov 3, 2005, at 3:09 PM, Garrett R. Hylltun wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> How do I get the hotkeys to work for the menus?  Such as CTRL+Q for  
> the Exit menu item.
>
> I could not find any reference to this in the documentation.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> -Garrett
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov  3 18:21:20 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:21:20 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <C761917A-A4E5-40C2-A428-FC22B9F97B2C@mac.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>
	<436A78BA.1050306@chipp.com>	<436A7A58.3020709@fourthworld.com>	<20051103140316.4a3051e2.garretthylltun@gmail.com>	<436A8CF8.2020303@fourthworld.com>
	<C761917A-A4E5-40C2-A428-FC22B9F97B2C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <436A9B70.7050207@fourthworld.com>

Andre Garzia wrote:
> does anyone know if autorun.inf will work on usb drives?

Not normally, but a consortium of USB vendors at U3.org has developed a 
way to partition a USB drive to trick the OS into thinking one of its 
partitions is a CD-ROM, so now that security hole can be exploited by 
USB drives even more dangerously than ever before:

<http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3513-6296529-1.html>

A similar auto-run option was once available on Mac OS, but was 
discontinued after QT 2.0 after it was used to spread a virus.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov  3 18:24:03 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:24:03 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <436A8F34.5030107@chipp.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>	<436A78BA.1050306@chipp.com>	<436A7A58.3020709@fourthworld.com>	<20051103140316.4a3051e2.garretthylltun@gmail.com>	<436A8CF8.2020303@fourthworld.com>
	<436A8F34.5030107@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <436A9C13.8080305@fourthworld.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:
> 
> 
> Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> And if we do ignore that for portable apps, assuming we'd like to ship 
>> a single app for both portable and installed use, how can we know 
>> we're running installed so that we could write the file association 
>> entry to the registry as customers would expect for a 
>> hard-drive-installed app?
> 
> 
> And we're back to the original question :-)
> "I'd like to be able to determine if an app is running from a removable 
> drive."

Only somewhat.  Aside from the ability to launch the app by 
double-clicking a file, every other aspect of universal portability 
seems to be pretty simple with Rev.

> Of course, Windows users are IMO more likely to launch the app first, 
> then the doc.

We can hope so, but most of my apps support documents and my customers 
would kill me if I removed that option.

Alternatively, I could safely provide that for 95% of my customers by 
writing the reg entry only when the boot volume is the same as the 
volume the app is running on.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From irog at mac.com  Thu Nov  3 18:28:24 2005
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 15:28:24 -0800
Subject: Controlling External Devices 
Message-ID: <EBC13A25-8268-464D-BAD4-39EC9444B339@mac.com>

Hello All,

I've searched the archives, but found only limited information about  
controlling external devices with Rev.  As I need something somewhat  
more sophisticated and reliable than X-10 devices, I would like to  
ask anew if anyone is doing this kind of work?  What would be ideal  
is an external Programable Logic Controller that we could communicate  
with via Rev.  Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks, Roger 


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov  3 18:29:45 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:29:45 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <7122587238.20051103151549@ahsoftware.net>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>	<8C7AE54CACDE4DA-DB4-3AD1@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com>	<436A781C.3020308@chipp.com>
	<7122587238.20051103151549@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <436A9D69.7000207@fourthworld.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:
> Again, there's an external call in the sdk to do this. There's a Win32
> API call named GetDriveType() that returns DRIVE_REMOVABLE for
> removable drives. Including USB flash drives. I doubt this can be done
> without an external call, short of seeing if a write works.

Looks like the most complete solution is to get a recent compiler and 
run the make file, debug the headers, try to run it again, figure out 
why the examples don't compile, try again...

;)

Or have the issues with the SDK been fixed?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From PS1 at SoftSeven.org  Thu Nov  3 06:38:02 2005
From: PS1 at SoftSeven.org (Paul)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 05:38:02 -0600
Subject: 2 question help
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.0.20051103052722.039bc5a8@SoftSeven.org>


Dear RunRev Programmers,

I have 2 questions.

1)  How to I make a link to browse the cd drive.

This is for a cd that installs but some files do 
not get transferred to the hard drive, it's rep 
files that the rep has access to but the end user 
has no need for them. I like an easy way for the rep to access them.


2) I had to format my hard drive the other day 
due to a worm, boy would I like the person that 
programmed this worm, well any way ? I had a 
program that was a db as such for programmers. 
You could save programming codes/functions and 
search for them then copy & paste in your 
application as needed. I have looked for this 
program, I thought it was made in Revolutation. 
Anyone know about this program and where I can get it from?




-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.7/159 - Release Date: 11/2/2005




From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Nov  3 18:49:58 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 18:49:58 -0500
Subject: Controlling External Devices 
In-Reply-To: <EBC13A25-8268-464D-BAD4-39EC9444B339@mac.com>
References: <EBC13A25-8268-464D-BAD4-39EC9444B339@mac.com>
Message-ID: <0daf7c1c30357d116a2a737d081aa18a@rpsystems.net>


On Nov 3, 2005, at 6:28 PM, Roger Guay wrote:

> I've searched the archives, but found only limited information about 
> controlling external devices with Rev.  As I need something somewhat 
> more sophisticated and reliable than X-10 devices, I would like to ask 
> anew if anyone is doing this kind of work?  What would be ideal is an 
> external Programable Logic Controller that we could communicate with 
> via Rev.  Any help will be greatly appreciated!

What type of devices? I routinely control serial and network 
controllable stuff with Revolution.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From irog at mac.com  Thu Nov  3 19:04:07 2005
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 16:04:07 -0800
Subject: Controlling External Devices 
In-Reply-To: <20051103231835.6939C82528C@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051103231835.6939C82528C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <1B925276-1363-4A91-930D-CB05E14BA485@mac.com>

I'm sorry I wasn't clear about this.  What I'm looking for is a  
computer interface with touch screen to a complex electro-mechanical  
device.  That's why I mentioned an external Programable Logic  
Controller.  An example that a lot of folks would relate to would be  
computer control/interface of a robot.  Does that help?

Thanks, Roger


On Nov 3, 2005, at 3:18 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com  
wrote:

> Message: 19
> Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 18:49:58 -0500
> From: Troy Rollins <troy at rpsystems.net>
> Subject: Re: Controlling External Devices
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <0daf7c1c30357d116a2a737d081aa18a at rpsystems.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
> On Nov 3, 2005, at 6:28 PM, Roger Guay wrote:
>
>
>> I've searched the archives, but found only limited information about
>> controlling external devices with Rev.  As I need something somewhat
>> more sophisticated and reliable than X-10 devices, I would like to  
>> ask
>> anew if anyone is doing this kind of work?  What would be ideal is an
>> external Programable Logic Controller that we could communicate with
>> via Rev.  Any help will be greatly appreciated!
>>
>
> What type of devices? I routinely control serial and network
> controllable stuff with Revolution.
> --
>



From troy at rpsystems.net  Thu Nov  3 19:13:17 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 19:13:17 -0500
Subject: Controlling External Devices 
In-Reply-To: <1B925276-1363-4A91-930D-CB05E14BA485@mac.com>
References: <20051103231835.6939C82528C@mail.runrev.com>
	<1B925276-1363-4A91-930D-CB05E14BA485@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1df27d1692893d713a4df393712ff041@rpsystems.net>


On Nov 3, 2005, at 7:04 PM, Roger Guay wrote:

> I'm sorry I wasn't clear about this.  What I'm looking for is a 
> computer interface with touch screen to a complex electro-mechanical 
> device.  That's why I mentioned an external Programable Logic 
> Controller.  An example that a lot of folks would relate to would be 
> computer control/interface of a robot.  Does that help?

Yes, it makes sense. To be honest for those types of things I use AMX 
control systems, and their own programming language. I use Revolution 
as a device on my control network, but it isn't doing any of the "heavy 
lifting", it is more a data I/O system which the AMX controller 
resources for various types of data. I suppose I could send control 
commands through Rev to the AMX controller... but the native stuff does 
such a good job (and it is what my clients are actually buying) that I 
have never bothered to try. AMX stuff is also about the farthest thing 
from a low cost solution, if that is a concern ? but it DOES qualify as 
a programmable logic controller.  ;-)

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 19:15:17 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 10:15:17 +1000
Subject: Controlling External Devices
In-Reply-To: <EBC13A25-8268-464D-BAD4-39EC9444B339@mac.com>
References: <EBC13A25-8268-464D-BAD4-39EC9444B339@mac.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511031615u19fa2f36ge20319362699baa8@mail.gmail.com>

> I've searched the archives, but found only limited information about
> controlling external devices with Rev.  As I need something somewhat
> more sophisticated and reliable than X-10 devices, I would like to
> ask anew if anyone is doing this kind of work?  What would be ideal
> is an external Programable Logic Controller that we could communicate
> with via Rev.  Any help will be greatly appreciated!
>

Like Troy, I have done a lot of this sort of stuff using either serial
or TCP/IP connections. Rev cannot yet handle USB comms, although I
understand Altuit is working on an external for this. If you need to
use a USB port, a USB-serial adapter works fine with Rev's serial
commands.

Serial comms are easy as you just open a port or driver, write, read
and then close the port. There is a sample stack on my web site which
might help you get going if you decide to use serial devices:
<http://www.troz.net/Rev/tutorials/SerialTest.rev.gz>

TCP/IP requires you to open sockets rather than ports, but apart from
that it's very similar.

If you are looking for hardware recommendations, I have lately taken
to using Weeder modules <http://www.weedtech.com/> which can do a
variety of I/O stuff.

That's some general advice, most of which I have already spouted on
this list, but if you have any more specific questions, please ask.

Cheers,
Sarah


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Nov  3 19:37:51 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 16:37:51 -0800
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <B972D381-A253-4961-B00D-AC4B8E6A0EE5@danshafer.com>
References: <B972D381-A253-4961-B00D-AC4B8E6A0EE5@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <15627509246.20051103163751@ahsoftware.net>

Dan-

Wednesday, November 2, 2005, 2:33:12 PM, you wrote:

> "A good experience is rich, something worth exploring, telling others
> about, and experiencing again. It's overdetermined - or holistic - or
> *integrated*. And being integrated makes it (often) hard to explain,
> since one can't truly reduce an integrated whole to a simple cause."

> Well said, I think, and an apt description of Revolution's many- 
> faceted appeals.

Yes, for those of us already in the know. It's still no help, though,
in terms of describing Revolution to potential users. My favorite so
far is

"It was a world of what it was, and it resembled nothing so much as an
environment"

-Edward Albee

...so - any attempt at trying to describe this for folks who haven't
dived in yet?

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net




From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Nov  3 19:45:39 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 16:45:39 -0800
Subject: 2 question help
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.0.20051103052722.039bc5a8@SoftSeven.org>
References: <6.2.5.6.0.20051103052722.039bc5a8@SoftSeven.org>
Message-ID: <678CED91-16DD-446B-A9F1-FE7B4BE364B5@danshafer.com>

You're probably thinking of Scripter's Scrapbook:

http://www.flexiblelearning.com


On Nov 3, 2005, at 3:38 AM, Paul wrote:

> 2) I had to format my hard drive the other day due to a worm, boy  
> would I like the person that programmed this worm, well any way ? I  
> had a program that was a db as such for programmers. You could save  
> programming codes/functions and search for them then copy & paste  
> in your application as needed. I have looked for this program, I  
> thought it was made in Revolutation. Anyone know about this program  
> and where I can get it from?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From tjframe at gmail.com  Thu Nov  3 19:51:11 2005
From: tjframe at gmail.com (TJ Frame)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 17:51:11 -0700
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <15627509246.20051103163751@ahsoftware.net>
References: <B972D381-A253-4961-B00D-AC4B8E6A0EE5@danshafer.com>
	<15627509246.20051103163751@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <7348a9e80511031651u51058023w9f844c659fb3367f@mail.gmail.com>

As much as I think these comparisons are misleading and limiting, "Hypercard
on Steroids" or "Professional Hypercard" are actually pithys way of getting
the essentials across to people.
 Most programmerish types are aware of Hypercard and the general environment
and methodology associated with it (Mac people), and the "on steroids" part
implies the color, speed, language etc. enhancements. After that brief 2
word explanation I usually expand by saying that Rev is a modern, robust,
full featured desendant of Hypercard with many numerous enhancements over
the old Mac-based tool. Metacard is vastly closer to Hypercard than anything
else so it just make sense to use the much more well known name when
describing Rev to new potential users.
 That generally gets people up to speed with the understanding that Rev is
not a flavor of Java, C++, Visual Basic etc. which a lot of people seem to
imediately assume.
  On 11/3/05, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
>
> Dan-
>
> Wednesday, November 2, 2005, 2:33:12 PM, you wrote:
>
> > "A good experience is rich, something worth exploring, telling others
> > about, and experiencing again. It's overdetermined - or holistic - or
> > *integrated*. And being integrated makes it (often) hard to explain,
> > since one can't truly reduce an integrated whole to a simple cause."
>
> > Well said, I think, and an apt description of Revolution's many-
> > faceted appeals.
>
> Yes, for those of us already in the know. It's still no help, though,
> in terms of describing Revolution to potential users. My favorite so
> far is
>
> "It was a world of what it was, and it resembled nothing so much as an
> environment"
>
> -Edward Albee
>
> ...so - any attempt at trying to describe this for folks who haven't
> dived in yet?
>
> --
> -Mark Wieder
> mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Nov  3 19:51:17 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 16:51:17 -0800
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <15627509246.20051103163751@ahsoftware.net>
References: <B972D381-A253-4961-B00D-AC4B8E6A0EE5@danshafer.com>
	<15627509246.20051103163751@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <1945F4D7-25A4-4419-B9E2-23DA58B1298B@danshafer.com>

I gave up on that years ago.

Dan

On Nov 3, 2005, at 4:37 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> ...so - any attempt at trying to describe this for folks who haven't
> dived in yet?



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Nov  3 20:05:19 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 19:05:19 -0600
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <15627509246.20051103163751@ahsoftware.net>
References: <B972D381-A253-4961-B00D-AC4B8E6A0EE5@danshafer.com>
	<15627509246.20051103163751@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <436AB3CF.8010608@hyperactivesw.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:

> ...so - any attempt at trying to describe this for folks who haven't
> dived in yet?

My own twist on an old HyperCard description: "Tinkertoys for software."


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  3 20:08:13 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 17:08:13 -0800
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <7348a9e80511031651u51058023w9f844c659fb3367f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BF8FF47D.3007A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

I use the following in part of my 30 second spiel:

With Revolution, I can quickly design a tool, like a timer with a graphic
interface and a drop down menu, then in one step, compile it to an exe for
Windows, an app for Mac OSX, an app for Linux/ Unix.  I don't know Unix, and
very little Windows, but it works flawlessly on all.  Now I add a new
feature, compile an update in about 3 seconds, send it to my client, and I
am done.  Cross platform made dead easy... (with emphasis on... well... all
of the words.)

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 11/3/05 4:51 PM, "TJ Frame" <tjframe at gmail.com> wrote:

> As much as I think these comparisons are misleading and limiting, "Hypercard
> on Steroids" or "Professional Hypercard" are actually pithys way of getting
> the essentials across to people.
>  Most programmerish types are aware of Hypercard and the general environment
> and methodology associated with it (Mac people), and the "on steroids" part
> implies the color, speed, language etc. enhancements. After that brief 2
> word explanation I usually expand by saying that Rev is a modern, robust,
> full featured desendant of Hypercard with many numerous enhancements over
> the old Mac-based tool. Metacard is vastly closer to Hypercard than anything
> else so it just make sense to use the much more well known name when
> describing Rev to new potential users.
>  That generally gets people up to speed with the understanding that Rev is
> not a flavor of Java, C++, Visual Basic etc. which a lot of people seem to
> imediately assume.
>   On 11/3/05, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Dan-
>> 
>> Wednesday, November 2, 2005, 2:33:12 PM, you wrote:
>> 
>>> "A good experience is rich, something worth exploring, telling others
>>> about, and experiencing again. It's overdetermined - or holistic - or
>>> *integrated*. And being integrated makes it (often) hard to explain,
>>> since one can't truly reduce an integrated whole to a simple cause."
>> 
>>> Well said, I think, and an apt description of Revolution's many-
>>> faceted appeals.
>> 
>> Yes, for those of us already in the know. It's still no help, though,
>> in terms of describing Revolution to potential users. My favorite so
>> far is
>> 
>> "It was a world of what it was, and it resembled nothing so much as an
>> environment"
>> 
>> -Edward Albee
>> 
>> ...so - any attempt at trying to describe this for folks who haven't
>> dived in yet?
>> 
>> --
>> -Mark Wieder
>> mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Nov  3 20:16:50 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 19:16:50 -0600
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <436AB3CF.8010608@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <B972D381-A253-4961-B00D-AC4B8E6A0EE5@danshafer.com>	<15627509246.20051103163751@ahsoftware.net>
	<436AB3CF.8010608@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <436AB682.8000101@hyperactivesw.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:
> Mark Wieder wrote:
> 
>> ...so - any attempt at trying to describe this for folks who haven't
>> dived in yet?
> 
> 
> My own twist on an old HyperCard description: "Tinkertoys for software."

Oh, and I forgot, they also used to call it a "software erector set."


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From tsj at unimelb.edu.au  Thu Nov  3 20:13:21 2005
From: tsj at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 12:13:21 +1100
Subject: Longest common substring / subsequence
In-Reply-To: <20051103231835.0C7DB825280@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051103231835.0C7DB825280@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <2bc6934fa3f8c8199884b10d9692ccd7@unimelb.edu.au>

I'm find myself getting deeper into the murky/difficult/fascinating 
area of sequence analysis (of behavioural data captured within 
educational technology environments) and was wondering whether anyone 
had succeeded in implementing routines for finding the longest common 
substrings or subsequence in a pair (or more) of strings? If so would 
they be prepared to share them?

Failing that, I've found some pseudocode for dynamic programming 
solutions to these two problems that may be doable in Rev (???) at...
http://www.ics.uci.edu/~dan/class/161/notes/6/Dynamic.html

Thoughts?

Terry...

Dr Terry Judd
Lecturer in Educational Technology (Design)
Biomedical Multimedia Unit
Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences
The University of Melbourne
Parkville VIC 3052
AUSTRALIA



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Nov  3 21:48:13 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 20:48:13 -0600
Subject: 2 question help
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.0.20051103052722.039bc5a8@SoftSeven.org>
Message-ID: <BF90280D.2F247%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/3/05 5:38 AM, "Paul" <PS1 at SoftSeven.org> wrote:

> 
> Dear RunRev Programmers,
> 
> I have 2 questions.
> 
> 1)  How to I make a link to browse the cd drive.
> 
> This is for a cd that installs but some files do
> not get transferred to the hard drive, it's rep
> files that the rep has access to but the end user
> has no need for them. I like an easy way for the rep to access them.

Here's Trevor's code that he posted to this list about a year ago (which was
a modified and enhanced form of some code I'd started):

/**
  * Opens a folder on the desktop. (Modified from Ken Ray's example)
  *
  * @param  pPath    Path to folder to open.
  */
on libSys_OpenFolder pPath
  switch (the platform)
    case "Win32"
      replace "/" with "\" in pPath
      set the hideConsoleWindows to true
      get shell("explorer.exe /root,"& quote & pPath & quote)
      break
    case "MacOS"
      if the systemVersion >= 10 then
        get shell("open " & quote & pPath & quote)
      else
        put "tell application " & quote & "Finder" & quote & cr & \
        "activate" & cr & \
        "open folder " & quote & revMacFromUnixPath(pPath) & quote & cr & \
        "end tell" into tScript
        do tScript as "AppleScript"
      end if
      break
  end switch
end libSys_OpenFolder

> 2) I had to format my hard drive the other day
> due to a worm, boy would I like the person that
> programmed this worm, well any way ? I had a
> program that was a db as such for programmers.
> You could save programming codes/functions and
> search for them then copy & paste in your
> application as needed. I have looked for this
> program, I thought it was made in Revolutation.
> Anyone know about this program and where I can get it from?

Yes, Scripter's Scrapbook, available at http://www.flexiblelearning.com.

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Nov  3 23:15:41 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 20:15:41 -0800
Subject: How to tell a line from a paragraph?
In-Reply-To: <BF8E8F00.D550%mpease@lawandpolitics.com>
References: <BF8E8F00.D550%mpease@lawandpolitics.com>
Message-ID: <p0621023ebf908fcf7b63@[66.93.39.98]>

At 3:42 PM -0800 11/2/2005, Michael wrote:
>Is it possible to determine on which "line" a word resides in a text field,
>where a line is defined not as a cr-delimited paragraph but as a "row" in
>the field's display?

This expression will produce the (visible) line number:

   lineOffset(wordToLocate,the formattedText of field "My Field")

-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Nov  4 00:05:20 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 23:05:20 -0600
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <436A9C13.8080305@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>	<436A78BA.1050306@chipp.com>	<436A7A58.3020709@fourthworld.com>	<20051103140316.4a3051e2.garretthylltun@gmail.com>	<436A8CF8.2020303@fourthworld.com>	<436A8F34.5030107@chipp.com>
	<436A9C13.8080305@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <436AEC10.6080003@chipp.com>



Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Alternatively, I could safely provide that for 95% of my customers by 
> writing the reg entry only when the boot volume is the same as the 
> volume the app is running on.

Richard,

For some darn reason I buy a lot of Windows computers. You'd be 
surprised how many have a smaller C drive than D drive and encourage you 
to locate your programs on the D drive. Just thought you might want to know.



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Nov  4 00:09:59 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 23:09:59 -0600
Subject: Controlling External Devices
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511031615u19fa2f36ge20319362699baa8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <EBC13A25-8268-464D-BAD4-39EC9444B339@mac.com>
	<f99b52860511031615u19fa2f36ge20319362699baa8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <436AED27.1080403@chipp.com>



Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> Rev cannot yet handle USB comms, although I
> understand Altuit is working on an external for this. 

Chris did spend a significant amount of time writing a USB external for 
both Mac and PC, but after taking a look at the way data is handled 
through a USB connection, we decided it would take way too much 
hand-holding tech support to ever release such a product.

Sorry.

-Chipp



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Nov  4 01:19:55 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 22:19:55 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <436AEC10.6080003@chipp.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>	<436A78BA.1050306@chipp.com>	<436A7A58.3020709@fourthworld.com>	<20051103140316.4a3051e2.garretthylltun@gmail.com>	<436A8CF8.2020303@fourthworld.com>	<436A8F34.5030107@chipp.com>	<436A9C13.8080305@fourthworld.com>
	<436AEC10.6080003@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <436AFD8B.5020403@fourthworld.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:
>
>> Alternatively, I could safely provide that for 95% of my customers by 
>> writing the reg entry only when the boot volume is the same as the 
>> volume the app is running on.
>
> Richard,
> 
> For some darn reason I buy a lot of Windows computers. You'd be 
> surprised how many have a smaller C drive than D drive and encourage you 
> to locate your programs on the D drive. Just thought you might want to 
> know.

It's been a while since I bought a PC.  The two I bought last year each 
came with two drives, but on both machines they were configured with D 
as a restore partition only.

Considering I never buy Dell and they're the market leader by far, as 
soon as I wrote "95%" it occured to me it's probably more like 90% or 
even 80%.

Small matter at this point:  Mark Weider slugged it out with the 
externals SDK and sent me the compiled DLL he's been talking about. 
Works a treat.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Nov  4 01:33:33 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 00:33:33 -0600
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <436AFD8B.5020403@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>	<436A78BA.1050306@chipp.com>	<436A7A58.3020709@fourthworld.com>	<20051103140316.4a3051e2.garretthylltun@gmail.com>	<436A8CF8.2020303@fourthworld.com>	<436A8F34.5030107@chipp.com>	<436A9C13.8080305@fourthworld.com>	<436AEC10.6080003@chipp.com>
	<436AFD8B.5020403@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <436B00BD.1050803@chipp.com>

Well then Mark, are you going to share it? ;-)

Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Small matter at this point:  Mark Weider slugged it out with the 
> externals SDK and sent me the compiled DLL he's been talking about. 
> Works a treat.
> 



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 01:44:36 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 16:44:36 +1000
Subject: Controlling External Devices
In-Reply-To: <436AED27.1080403@chipp.com>
References: <EBC13A25-8268-464D-BAD4-39EC9444B339@mac.com>
	<f99b52860511031615u19fa2f36ge20319362699baa8@mail.gmail.com>
	<436AED27.1080403@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511032244k33dff8ffk47e506392c476162@mail.gmail.com>

> > Rev cannot yet handle USB comms, although I
> > understand Altuit is working on an external for this.
>
> Chris did spend a significant amount of time writing a USB external for
> both Mac and PC, but after taking a look at the way data is handled
> through a USB connection, we decided it would take way too much
> hand-holding tech support to ever release such a product.
>

That's a shame. I would have liked it, but I can manage quite happily
using serial stuff for the moment.
Thanks for letting us know.

Sarah


From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Nov  4 02:28:21 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 23:28:21 -0800
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <436AB682.8000101@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <B972D381-A253-4961-B00D-AC4B8E6A0EE5@danshafer.com>	<15627509246.20051103163751@ahsoftware.net>
	<436AB3CF.8010608@hyperactivesw.com>
	<436AB682.8000101@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <09F9A158-32F1-434F-9978-216136DD2F6F@danshafer.com>

I've been known to call it Java without the Java.

Dan

On Nov 3, 2005, at 5:16 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> J. Landman Gay wrote:
>> Mark Wieder wrote:
>>> ...so - any attempt at trying to describe this for folks who haven't
>>> dived in yet?
>> My own twist on an old HyperCard description: "Tinkertoys for  
>> software."
>
> Oh, and I forgot, they also used to call it a "software erector set."
>
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Fri Nov  4 02:54:15 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 08:54:15 +0100
Subject: Strange field wraps with tabs
In-Reply-To: <436A4BCA.1070808@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <OFD1B642D1.217306E4-ONC12570AF.002ACF3A-C12570AF.002B6B32@deutsche-boerse.com>

Richard said:

> On the bright side, there's rarely a need to display that many columns 
> to a user in most layouts.  In DB apps it's common to display a useful 
> subset of fields in a list for the user to pick from, and then edit 
> fields in a detail view showing all fields.

No there isn't a bright side for some of us... Only workarounds.

I entered a bugzilla last week. Copy pasting from excel with just a bit 
too much
data (500 rows X 2 or 3 rows) = crash. Once every 3 months i get this... 

You mentioned Sort function crashes. I know regex does too. Im sure 
there's others.

This is an ancient bug and if i get hit every 3 months by it, you have, 
Paul seems to also...

Other possibilities to get hit with this bug are:
- Output of data into a field (via script) and then editing
- Pasting data
- Viewing data via propertyPalette

Funnily enough, the revVariableWatcher is protected...

Maybe it's about time this gets fixed instead of being "excused"...

cheers
Xavier



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
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From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Fri Nov  4 03:06:09 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 09:06:09 +0100
Subject: Longest common substring / subsequence
In-Reply-To: <2bc6934fa3f8c8199884b10d9692ccd7@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <OF02657D78.5C09A21E-ONC12570AF.002BAB5B-C12570AF.002C821B@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Judy,

There's different ways to this.

the most common is runtime encoding of a dictionary. The question is 
whether you have a fixed
encoding or a variable encoding. How does teh data present itself?

For data compression and related subjects, this is collected either in a 
scan-pass of the different
strings, or on the fly as you encode the data. 

Look at dictionary based compression. you'll find different techniques. 
Shannon codes, etc...

If however you have the luck of having regularly encoded data, it's 
easier. 

Let me know what you need, i've done a bit of this in encoding, codecs, 
and a recent dictionary
tool for rev.


use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 04/11/2005 02:13:21:

> I'm find myself getting deeper into the murky/difficult/fascinating 
> area of sequence analysis (of behavioural data captured within 
> educational technology environments) and was wondering whether anyone 
> had succeeded in implementing routines for finding the longest common 
> substrings or subsequence in a pair (or more) of strings? If so would 
> they be prepared to share them?
> 
> Failing that, I've found some pseudocode for dynamic programming 
> solutions to these two problems that may be doable in Rev (???) at...
> http://www.ics.uci.edu/~dan/class/161/notes/6/Dynamic.html
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Terry...
> 
> Dr Terry Judd
> Lecturer in Educational Technology (Design)
> Biomedical Multimedia Unit
> Faculty of Medicine, Dentistry & Health Sciences
> The University of Melbourne
> Parkville VIC 3052
> AUSTRALIA
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Nov  4 03:13:26 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 00:13:26 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <436B00BD.1050803@chipp.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com> <436A78BA.1050306@chipp.com>
	<436A7A58.3020709@fourthworld.com>
	<20051103140316.4a3051e2.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
	<436A8CF8.2020303@fourthworld.com> <436A8F34.5030107@chipp.com>
	<436A9C13.8080305@fourthworld.com> <436AEC10.6080003@chipp.com>
	<436AFD8B.5020403@fourthworld.com> <436B00BD.1050803@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <3954844602.20051104001326@ahsoftware.net>

Chipp-

Thursday, November 3, 2005, 10:33:33 PM, you wrote:

> Well then Mark, are you going to share it? ;-)

The source is in the sdk. Do you need the compiled dll? I can't post
it to the list or to revonline...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk  Fri Nov  4 03:32:13 2005
From: mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 08:32:13 +0000
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <436A9C13.8080305@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>	<436A78BA.1050306@chipp.com>	<436A7A58.3020709@fourthworld.com>	<20051103140316.4a3051e2.garretthylltun@gmail.com>	<436A8CF8.2020303@fourthworld.com>
	<436A8F34.5030107@chipp.com> <436A9C13.8080305@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <436B1C8D.5040806@harbourhost.co.uk>

Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Chipp Walters wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>>> And if we do ignore that for portable apps, assuming we'd like to 
>>> ship a single app for both portable and installed use, how can we 
>>> know we're running installed so that we could write the file 
>>> association entry to the registry as customers would expect for a 
>>> hard-drive-installed app?
>>
> We can hope so, but most of my apps support documents and my customers 
> would kill me if I removed that option.
> 
> Alternatively, I could safely provide that for 95% of my customers by 
> writing the reg entry only when the boot volume is the same as the 
> volume the app is running on.

Perhaps it might be workable to make it a user preference whether your 
app makes registry entries for its file extensions or not. User-mindset 
would be an issue to be considered, but this is by no means unheard-of, 
and I think this is what I would personally prefer from an app that 
could be run in portable or installed modes.

Martin Baxter


From selid at broadpark.no  Fri Nov  4 05:47:25 2005
From: selid at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jan_S=E6lid?=)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 11:47:25 +0100
Subject: Communication between modal stack and main stack
Message-ID: <000801c5e12d$24d601b0$0500000a@makabre>

Hi

I use several modal stacks  to communicate with the user.
My first question is:

Is there a way to pass informasjon from a modal stack back to the function on the stack that
opened it? Like "Return"? I use a custom property for now.... 

When the modal stack closes the function in the main stack that opened it continues. Just what I want. But for the remaining message path in the function
I have to refer to the main stack - even if the fuction resides in the main stack. Or else I get a background not found error.

How can I prevent this. Do I need to set the focus back on the main stack?


Jan


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Fri Nov  4 05:54:42 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 11:54:42 +0100
Subject: Communication between modal stack and main stack
In-Reply-To: <000801c5e12d$24d601b0$0500000a@makabre>
Message-ID: <OF156A1F8F.FE95A699-ONC12570AF.003B8DD5-C12570AF.003BF07E@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Jan

What i do in these cases is to have the mainstack
call a prep handler to setup the modal stack's info.

When the user clicks on in the Modal stack, there
is a handler in the modal that can do 1 of two things:

1: set a global array to retrieve the information
2: send a call to the main stack to send it the information (same process 
as the main stack calling the modal stack).

now, the handler CAN return information.

on dothis
  get that
  return it
end dothis

and the calling handler can do

 dothis
 get the result -- where information is returned.

As for the missing background, you can always specify control thisone of 
background thatone of stack mymainstack...

cheers
Xavier

> Hi
> 
> I use several modal stacks  to communicate with the user.
> My first question is:
> 
> Is there a way to pass informasjon from a modal stack back to the 
> function on the stack that
> opened it? Like "Return"? I use a custom property for now.... 
> 
> When the modal stack closes the function in the main stack that 
> opened it continues. Just what I want. But for the remaining message
> path in the function
> I have to refer to the main stack - even if the fuction resides in 
> the main stack. Or else I get a background not found error.
> 
> How can I prevent this. Do I need to set the focus back on the main 
stack?
> 
> 
> Jan
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
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Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
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its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From selid at broadpark.no  Fri Nov  4 06:13:50 2005
From: selid at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jan_S=E6lid?=)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 12:13:50 +0100
Subject: Communication between modal stack and main stack
References: <OF156A1F8F.FE95A699-ONC12570AF.003B8DD5-C12570AF.003BF07E@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <001301c5e130$d54584f0$0500000a@makabre>

Thanks alot Xavier

(This is really an immensely useful and fast mailing list!!!)

I have never used the control keyword before.
How does it work? Do you use it like "control 5" instead of "Button "Hitme".

(It's funny how dumb you feel in some areas - and how smart in 
others.....;-) )

regards
Jan

> Hi Jan
>
> What i do in these cases is to have the mainstack
> call a prep handler to setup the modal stack's info.
>
> When the user clicks on in the Modal stack, there
> is a handler in the modal that can do 1 of two things:
>
> 1: set a global array to retrieve the information
> 2: send a call to the main stack to send it the information (same process
> as the main stack calling the modal stack).
>
> now, the handler CAN return information.
>
> on dothis
>  get that
>  return it
> end dothis
>
> and the calling handler can do
>
> dothis
> get the result -- where information is returned.
>
> As for the missing background, you can always specify control thisone of
> background thatone of stack mymainstack...
>
> cheers
> Xavier
>
>> Hi
>>
>> I use several modal stacks  to communicate with the user.
>> My first question is:
>>
>> Is there a way to pass informasjon from a modal stack back to the
>> function on the stack that
>> opened it? Like "Return"? I use a custom property for now....
>>
>> When the modal stack closes the function in the main stack that
>> opened it continues. Just what I want. But for the remaining message
>> path in the function
>> I have to refer to the main stack - even if the fuction resides in
>> the main stack. Or else I get a background not found error.
>>
>> How can I prevent this. Do I need to set the focus back on the main
> stack?
>>
>>
>> Jan 



From rjb at robelko.com  Fri Nov  4 06:15:12 2005
From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 12:15:12 +0100
Subject: Communication between modal stack and main stack
In-Reply-To: <000801c5e12d$24d601b0$0500000a@makabre>
References: <000801c5e12d$24d601b0$0500000a@makabre>
Message-ID: <a06110408bf90f2943439@[141.89.100.174]>

>Hi
>
>I use several modal stacks  to communicate with the user.
>My first question is:
>
>Is there a way to pass informasjon from a modal stack back to the 
>function on the stack that
>opened it? Like "Return"? I use a custom property for now....

check out the dialogData (global) property.

>When the modal stack closes the function in the main stack that 
>opened it continues. Just what I want. But for the remaining message 
>path in the function
>I have to refer to the main stack - even if the fuction resides in 
>the main stack. Or else I get a background not found error.
>
>How can I prevent this. Do I need to set the focus back on the main stack?

Rev should automatically reset focus and, more importantly, the 
defaultStack property to your main stack when a substack closes. A 
situation where I had seen this malfunction was when there was an 
invisible stack which for some reason got the attention. Check what 
the defaultStack upon return from dialog is and may be this will give 
you a clue.

Robert


From selid at broadpark.no  Fri Nov  4 06:38:52 2005
From: selid at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jan_S=E6lid?=)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 12:38:52 +0100
Subject: Communication between modal stack and main stack
References: <OF156A1F8F.FE95A699-ONC12570AF.003B8DD5-C12570AF.003BF07E@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<001301c5e130$d54584f0$0500000a@makabre>
Message-ID: <003001c5e134$5491fdd0$0500000a@makabre>

Ok Sorry

I got It now Xavier. You ment Control as a reference to objects. Not the 
"control" Keyword.

Stupid me.


Thanks both to Brenstein and Xavier for the useful suggestions.


> Thanks alot Xavier
>
> (This is really an immensely useful and fast mailing list!!!)
>
> I have never used the control keyword before.
> How does it work? Do you use it like "control 5" instead of "Button 
> "Hitme".
>
> (It's funny how dumb you feel in some areas - and how smart in 
> others.....;-) )
>
> regards
> Jan
>
>> Hi Jan
>>
>> What i do in these cases is to have the mainstack
>> call a prep handler to setup the modal stack's info.
>>
>> When the user clicks on in the Modal stack, there
>> is a handler in the modal that can do 1 of two things:
>>
>> 1: set a global array to retrieve the information
>> 2: send a call to the main stack to send it the information (same process
>> as the main stack calling the modal stack).
>>
>> now, the handler CAN return information.
>>
>> on dothis
>>  get that
>>  return it
>> end dothis
>>
>> and the calling handler can do
>>
>> dothis
>> get the result -- where information is returned.
>>
>> As for the missing background, you can always specify control thisone of
>> background thatone of stack mymainstack...
>>
>> cheers
>> Xavier
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I use several modal stacks  to communicate with the user.
>>> My first question is:
>>>
>>> Is there a way to pass informasjon from a modal stack back to the
>>> function on the stack that
>>> opened it? Like "Return"? I use a custom property for now....
>>>
>>> When the modal stack closes the function in the main stack that
>>> opened it continues. Just what I want. But for the remaining message
>>> path in the function
>>> I have to refer to the main stack - even if the fuction resides in
>>> the main stack. Or else I get a background not found error.
>>>
>>> How can I prevent this. Do I need to set the focus back on the main
>> stack?
>>>
>>>
>>> Jan
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution 



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Nov  4 06:40:57 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 05:40:57 -0600
Subject: Communication between modal stack and main stack
In-Reply-To: <000801c5e12d$24d601b0$0500000a@makabre>
References: <000801c5e12d$24d601b0$0500000a@makabre>
Message-ID: <436B48C9.5050907@chipp.com>

Jan,

I like to encapsulate the entire dialog capability into a single 
function call. This includes setup and display.

For instance. Let's say you want a dialog box which asks the user to 
select a single line from a list of stuff. And you want also to have a 
custom prompt. Plus you want an OK and Cancel button

I would write the function 'askListItem' and call it from the button 
named "pick your favorite fruit"
(tFruitList is a variable containing a line-delimited list of fruits)

get askListItem(tFruitList,"Please choose a fruit from the list")
if it is "Cancel" then exit mouseUp
put it into tMyFavoriteFruit

So, the question is how to make it this simple?

Easy, you'll want to build a stack "askList" with 2 fields: "theList" 
and "thePrompt"; 2 buttons "Cancel" and "OK"; and in the stack script:

function askListItem pList,pPrompt
   put "" into the dialogData
   put pList into fld "theList" of stack "askList"
   put pPrompt into fld "thePrompt" of stack "askList"
   modal stack "askList"
   return the dialogData
end askListItem

The script of the button "OK" is:

on mouseUp
    put the hilitedlines of fld "theList" into tLineNum
    if tLineNum is "" then
      beep
      exit mouseUp
    end if
    set the dialogData to line tLineNum of fld "theList"
    close this stack
end mouseUp

and the script for the button "Cancel" is:

on mouseUp
    set the dialogData to "Cancel"
    close this stack
end mouseUp

Now the secret to making all this work is that you need to make 
'askList' a library stack. This way, all of it's stack scripts will be 
available to whatever card/stack/button you're on.

To do this, you'll need to insert into the openStack handler of card 1 
of your main stack:

on openStack
   start using stack "askList"
end openStack

That's all there is to it! Now, you've got an encapsulated stack which 
can process list queries from anywhere.

Hope this helps,

Chipp


Jan S?lid wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I use several modal stacks  to communicate with the user.
> My first question is:
> 
> Is there a way to pass informasjon from a modal stack back to the function on the stack that
> opened it? Like "Return"? I use a custom property for now.... 
> 
> When the modal stack closes the function in the main stack that opened it continues. Just what I want. But for the remaining message path in the function
> I have to refer to the main stack - even if the fuction resides in the main stack. Or else I get a background not found error.



From paulclaude at postino.it  Fri Nov  4 06:47:34 2005
From: paulclaude at postino.it (Paul Claude)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 12:47:34 +0100
Subject: Access Address Book or iCal
Message-ID: <BF9108E6.3048%paulclaude@postino.it>

On 21 feb Joel Guillod asked for this:

> Is there a way to access to the Mac OS X Address Book from Revolution?
> I found that RealBasic provides classes to do this so you can read from
> or write to the
> Address Book.

Someone knows a way to access Address Book or iCal files without using
AppleScript?




From john at debraneys.com  Fri Nov  4 07:33:55 2005
From: john at debraneys.com (John Tregea)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 23:33:55 +1100
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <09F9A158-32F1-434F-9978-216136DD2F6F@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <200511041233.jA4CXtvv029586@mail03.syd.optusnet.com.au>

I just called it Hyper-HyperCard

Greetings, just joined the list today by the way.

Regards

John T

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Dan Shafer
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 6:28 PM
To: jacque at hyperactivesw.com; How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev

I've been known to call it Java without the Java.

Dan

On Nov 3, 2005, at 5:16 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> J. Landman Gay wrote:
>> Mark Wieder wrote:
>>> ...so - any attempt at trying to describe this for folks who haven't
>>> dived in yet?
>> My own twist on an old HyperCard description: "Tinkertoys for  
>> software."
>
> Oh, and I forgot, they also used to call it a "software erector set."
>
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
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From john at debraneys.com  Fri Nov  4 07:41:10 2005
From: john at debraneys.com (John Tregea)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 23:41:10 +1100
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <200511041233.jA4CXtvv029586@mail03.syd.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <200511041241.jA4Cf9Jw005760@mail18.syd.optusnet.com.au>

I remember the original tag line for HyperCard was "Freedom to Associate"
they gave out lots of cool badges with cartoons of things in pairs like dogs
and fire hydrants etc. (Boston Macworld in the late 1800's I think it was)
:)

John T

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of John Tregea
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 11:34 PM
To: 'How to use Revolution'
Subject: RE: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev

I just called it Hyper-HyperCard

Greetings, just joined the list today by the way.

Regards

John T

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Dan Shafer
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 6:28 PM
To: jacque at hyperactivesw.com; How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev

I've been known to call it Java without the Java.

Dan

On Nov 3, 2005, at 5:16 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> J. Landman Gay wrote:
>> Mark Wieder wrote:
>>> ...so - any attempt at trying to describe this for folks who haven't
>>> dived in yet?
>> My own twist on an old HyperCard description: "Tinkertoys for  
>> software."
>
> Oh, and I forgot, they also used to call it a "software erector set."
>
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

_______________________________________________
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use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
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From esmale at welshpiper.com  Fri Nov  4 09:16:55 2005
From: esmale at welshpiper.com (Erin D. Smale)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 09:16:55 -0500
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <7348a9e80511031651u51058023w9f844c659fb3367f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B972D381-A253-4961-B00D-AC4B8E6A0EE5@danshafer.com>	<15627509246.20051103163751@ahsoftware.net>
	<7348a9e80511031651u51058023w9f844c659fb3367f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <436B6D57.7050001@welshpiper.com>

TJ Frame wrote:

> That generally gets people up to speed with the understanding that Rev is
>not a flavor of Java, C++, Visual Basic etc. which a lot of people seem to
>imediately assume.
>
As someone new to Rev, I can say that:

(1) When I read on the Rev website that it was unlike Java, C++, or VB, 
my interest in Revolution increased about tenfold--from an ease of use 
standpoint, this is an appealing draw. I've used those languages with 
mixed success--given enough time one can always make them do what you 
want, but who has enough time?

(2) My next concern was power and ability; a look at the command and 
function list made it clear that Rev could handle pretty much anything I 
would need it to do. In Dan's book, this was brought home when he wrote 
(I'm paraphrasing) that Rev works for about 99% of the applications he 
writes and that he probably wouldn't use Rev to monitor nuclear reactor 
temperature in real time, but then again, he wouldn't use C++, Java, or 
VB either.

(3) The real benefit I see in Rev is its Property Inspector and use of 
Transcript. Property Inspector reminds me of the Properties panel in VB, 
which made it very easy to control appearance, behaviour, positioning, 
format, etc. Transcript (and I hope the MAC folks will forgive me on 
this) reminds me of REXX, which I think was a great innovation in 
'normal language' programming. When I did the tutorial on the ask/put 
commands, it was REXX all over, which is good.

My description of Rev is an RAD tool that lets you construct a GUI as 
easy as with VB, make it functional with normal language code, and work 
with all the files, databases, and I/O devices you'd expect it to. Oh, 
it lets you compile for Windows, MAC, and 'NIX, as well.

Now I just got myself all excited to program... :)

Cheers,
-Erin


From jeff at siphonophore.com  Fri Nov  4 09:54:27 2005
From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeffrey Reynolds)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 09:54:27 -0500
Subject: Controlling External Devices
In-Reply-To: <20051104072312.EE62982532A@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051104072312.EE62982532A@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <327edede1d7f36affb8a9dc53feecc02@siphonophore.com>

I too have used the amx system in large installations. not cheap and 
the amx coding is another world to deal with. usually the amx did the 
specific control tasks and the rev app is the master controller/user 
interface communicating via a serial connection. Troy is right, the AMX 
system does great down and dirty control of many devices (mainly av and 
lighting controllers) so letting it do that work is great and just have 
rev do the master user control where you might want a fancier interface 
and control system than the amx system easily affords (you can do very 
sophisticates stuff with the amx interface, but it comes at a cost and 
is really directed at av control.) if you go the amx route and 
depending on how much you want to do the amx side it might be 
worthwhile to hire an amx consultant. I started to get into it, but 
realized that it wasn't worth my time to totally learn if i wasn't 
going to use it much and the amx programmer was an ace and knowing all 
the little gotchas in the amx systems which are always evolving.

I do remember an inexpensive I/O system that was serial and usb that 
did both data acquisition and also switch closure and i think 
controlling voltages outputs. I thought it had the name bee or hive in 
it, but nothing came up on a quick google search.

what do you need to set on your mechanical control? relays, step motor 
controls? if you can find an I/O system that will control the things 
you want and it has a serial interface then rev does wonderfully 
sending/receiving serial signals to things like this and being the 
master controller/interface.

if you end up needing to control several serial devices, black box has 
a great serial switcher which allows you to route your single rev 
serial out to any number of serial ports with the addition of a simple 
port number flag to each serial command which is stripped off by the 
switcher and sent onto the proper port. works like a charm.

cheers,

jeff


On Nov 4, 2005, at 2:23 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

> Yes, it makes sense. To be honest for those types of things I use AMX
> control systems, and their own programming language. I use Revolution
> as a device on my control network, but it isn't doing any of the "heavy
> lifting", it is more a data I/O system which the AMX controller
> resources for various types of data. I suppose I could send control
> commands through Rev to the AMX controller... but the native stuff does
> such a good job (and it is what my clients are actually buying) that I
> have never bothered to try. AMX stuff is also about the farthest thing
> from a low cost solution, if that is a concern ? but it DOES qualify as
> a programmable logic controller.  ;-)


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Fri Nov  4 09:58:21 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 15:58:21 +0100
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <200511041241.jA4Cf9Jw005760@mail18.syd.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <OFC7352CDE.10CA209A-ONC12570AF.00465924-C12570AF.00523EF0@deutsche-boerse.com>

welcome to the list John T

If it is hard to explain rev it is because it does it all :)

and that's the beauty of it ;)

just do it

Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 04/11/2005 13:41:10:

> I remember the original tag line for HyperCard was "Freedom to 
Associate"
> they gave out lots of cool badges with cartoons of things in pairs like 
dogs
> and fire hydrants etc. (Boston Macworld in the late 1800's I think it 
was)
> :)
> 
> John T
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of John 
Tregea
> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 11:34 PM
> To: 'How to use Revolution'
> Subject: RE: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
> 
> I just called it Hyper-HyperCard
> 
> Greetings, just joined the list today by the way.
> 
> Regards
> 
> John T
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Dan Shafer
> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 6:28 PM
> To: jacque at hyperactivesw.com; How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
> 
> I've been known to call it Java without the Java.
> 
> Dan
> 
> On Nov 3, 2005, at 5:16 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> 
> > J. Landman Gay wrote:
> >> Mark Wieder wrote:
> >>> ...so - any attempt at trying to describe this for folks who haven't
> >>> dived in yet?
> >> My own twist on an old HyperCard description: "Tinkertoys for 
> >> software."
> >
> > Oh, and I forgot, they also used to call it a "software erector set."
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> > HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
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-----------------------------------------
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recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
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Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
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From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Fri Nov  4 10:15:31 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 15:15:31 +0000
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <7348a9e80511031651u51058023w9f844c659fb3367f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B972D381-A253-4961-B00D-AC4B8E6A0EE5@danshafer.com>
	<15627509246.20051103163751@ahsoftware.net>
	<7348a9e80511031651u51058023w9f844c659fb3367f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a0521060dbf9128d703a0@[192.168.0.101]>

I explained it thusly to a fellow C/C++ programmer:

Working in the RunRev IDE developing Applications, is like doing open 
brain sugery with the patient still awake and helping you! If you hit 
the wrong part of the "brain" this will cause an involuntary reaction 
whereby an arm or leg will suddenly fly out and whack you!!!

As you say, there is really too much in Rev to explain to anyone. I 
usually end up saying something like - "Trust me you'll either love 
it or you'll hate it, but either way you just have to admire it!"

Just my .5 cents worth!
Dave



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Fri Nov  4 10:19:50 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 16:19:50 +0100
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <a0521060dbf9128d703a0@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <OF9A2672EF.676D2855-ONC12570AF.00542371-C12570AF.005436B3@deutsche-boerse.com>

> Working in the RunRev IDE developing Applications, is like doing open 
> brain sugery with the patient still awake and helping you! If you hit 
> the wrong part of the "brain" this will cause an involuntary reaction 
> whereby an arm or leg will suddenly fly out and whack you!!!
> 
> Just my .5 cents worth!
> Dave

Dave, that's still better than having the whole hospital blowing up (in 
C++)
if you look at the patient wrong before operation ;)

LOL

X


-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Nov  4 10:24:53 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 07:24:53 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <436B1C8D.5040806@harbourhost.co.uk>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>	<436A78BA.1050306@chipp.com>	<436A7A58.3020709@fourthworld.com>	<20051103140316.4a3051e2.garretthylltun@gmail.com>	<436A8CF8.2020303@fourthworld.com>	<436A8F34.5030107@chipp.com>
	<436A9C13.8080305@fourthworld.com>
	<436B1C8D.5040806@harbourhost.co.uk>
Message-ID: <436B7D45.5090000@fourthworld.com>

Martin Baxter wrote:

> Perhaps it might be workable to make it a user preference whether your 
> app makes registry entries for its file extensions or not. User-mindset 
> would be an issue to be considered, but this is by no means unheard-of, 
> and I think this is what I would personally prefer from an app that 
> could be run in portable or installed modes.

Of courze _you_ would.  Look at you: you hang out on programming lists. ;)

I'll work overtime to avoid having to force users to make decisions they 
didn't ask to make.  This is the sort of thing that's normally handled 
in Prefs with some reasonbable default, but alas it involves Prefs 
itself so it's less straightforward.

Fortunately Mark Weider has done the work of wrestling with the 
externals SDK, and with any luck he'll post his compiled DriveType DLL 
soon....

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Fri Nov  4 10:58:23 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 07:58:23 -0800
Subject: Access Address Book or iCal
In-Reply-To: <BF9108E6.3048%paulclaude@postino.it>
References: <BF9108E6.3048%paulclaude@postino.it>
Message-ID: <p06230925bf91354bd334@[192.168.1.104]>

iCal uses an industry standard format - and it's XML. The files live 
in the library somewhere...

>On 21 feb Joel Guillod asked for this:
>
>>  Is there a way to access to the Mac OS X Address Book from Revolution?
>>  I found that RealBasic provides classes to do this so you can read from
>>  or write to the
>>  Address Book.
>
>Someone knows a way to access Address Book or iCal files without using
>AppleScript?
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From AbilityForms at aol.com  Fri Nov  4 11:01:17 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 11:01:17 EST
Subject: Dial Phone?
Message-ID: <1a2.4024bd00.309cdfcd@aol.com>

Hi Everyone,

Is it possible to set up a field so that when you click on a phone number in 
it the touch tones for the number are broadcast through the computer speaker?

Joe,
Orlando, Florida


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Fri Nov  4 11:30:33 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 08:30:33 -0800
Subject: Dial Phone?
In-Reply-To: <1a2.4024bd00.309cdfcd@aol.com>
References: <1a2.4024bd00.309cdfcd@aol.com>
Message-ID: <p06230926bf91369f2322@[192.168.1.104]>

One has to come up with the tones alone.

I just fired up Hypercard 2.4.1 in Classic and played with the tones 
for a minute. I think the timing was thrown off by the G4, as it 
would not loop the samples correctly anymore - something in the code 
times out and the tones go 'da-da' instead of 'da' for a single 
number...

Rev has no 'Dial' command, as Hypercard did. In HC, the little 
samples were only a few cycles long and were looped to get the right 
timing.

I have the raw DTMF tones stolen from HC and converted to WAV and 
AIFF - I'll offer them  at http://barncard.com/dial_sounds.zip . The 
zip is 44k in size.

In Rev you might use the PLAY command with the LOOPING option - but 
I've never done this. It might be easier to put the tones into an 
audio editor and cut-paste the tones to the right timing. At that 
point it might be even better to get a good phone patch for an hour 
and record all the samples you need from a real phone!

I'll leave the files up for a few hours.

sqb

>Hi Everyone,
>
>Is it possible to set up a field so that when you click on a phone number in
>it the touch tones for the number are broadcast through the computer speaker?
>
>Joe,
>Orlando, Florida

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Nov  4 11:41:01 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 08:41:01 -0800
Subject: Strange field wraps with tabs
In-Reply-To: <OFD1B642D1.217306E4-ONC12570AF.002ACF3A-C12570AF.002B6B32@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OFD1B642D1.217306E4-ONC12570AF.002ACF3A-C12570AF.002B6B32@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <436B8F1D.9020208@fourthworld.com>

xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:
> Richard said:
...
> You mentioned Sort function crashes.

No, I said that the Sort command yields unpredictable results
when you attempt to use it on strings larger than its documented bounds. 
  This is true of any app where you exceed the limits of the data type 
being handled.

I have a similar problem with my car:  its manual says it only runs on 
unleaded gasoline, but I prefer to pour gravel into the tank.  Damn but 
that crappy car just won't run.  ;)

Neither myself nor any of my few thousand users have reported a crash 
when exceeding the documented limits of the sort command.  It may be 
possible (I suppose it's possible to crash anything when you push it far 
enough outside of what it's described to be able to do), but I've not 
heard of such a case.

While the Rev text engine is not without its limitations, its 
capabilities far exceed those of TextEdit (used across the Mac platform 
at the time Rev's was created), and has arguably fewer limitations and 
bugs than WASTE, one of the most popular text engines used by third 
party Mac apps for more than a decade.  I'm not as familiar with the 
technical underpinnings of Windows text engines, but perhaps NotePad's 
limit of 32k gives us some idea of similar limits there.

There are very few if any practical reasons to present data to the user 
which exceeds 65,535 characters _per line_; that's a lot to ask of a 
user.  Rev has no problem storing and retrieving data up for 4GB, but I 
pity the user of an app which would insist on presenting all of that 
data for the user to read.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  __________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Nov  4 11:54:41 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 08:54:41 -0800
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <436B6D57.7050001@welshpiper.com>
References: <B972D381-A253-4961-B00D-AC4B8E6A0EE5@danshafer.com>
	<15627509246.20051103163751@ahsoftware.net>
	<7348a9e80511031651u51058023w9f844c659fb3367f@mail.gmail.com>
	<436B6D57.7050001@welshpiper.com>
Message-ID: <1292173705.20051104085441@ahsoftware.net>

Erin-

Friday, November 4, 2005, 6:16:55 AM, you wrote:

Thanks for the writeup. Nice description.

> (1) When I read on the Rev website that it was unlike Java, C++, or VB,
> my interest in Revolution increased about tenfold--from an ease of use

Interesting. This is the first report I can remember seeing where
someone was drawn to rev because it was UNlike something else.

> (2) My next concern was power and ability; a look at the command and

and maybe 2.5: I find myself some four to five times as productive
writing xtalk as c++ or java. Part of that's getting out of the
code-compile-debug-repeat cycle, part is the near-natural language
syntax, part is the power that's built into the engine, part is the
flexibility.

> this) reminds me of REXX, which I think was a great innovation in

I forgot about REXX (had to take my dusty manual off the shelf). I
usually think of xtalk as being close to Python and Ruby.

> My description of Rev is an RAD tool that lets you construct a GUI as
> easy as with VB, make it functional with normal language code, and work
> with all the files, databases, and I/O devices you'd expect it to. Oh,
> it lets you compile for Windows, MAC, and 'NIX, as well.

...at least in theory. And as they say,

In theory there's no difference between theory and practice, but in
practice there is.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Nov  4 11:56:46 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 08:56:46 -0800
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <200511041233.jA4CXtvv029586@mail03.syd.optusnet.com.au>
References: <200511041233.jA4CXtvv029586@mail03.syd.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <1472299666.20051104085646@ahsoftware.net>

John-

Friday, November 4, 2005, 4:33:55 AM, you wrote:

> I just called it Hyper-HyperCard

> Greetings, just joined the list today by the way.

Welcome to the list. I find that if someone already knows what
HyperCard is then there's no problem. If they don't (most of the
managers I talk with when trying to pitch a project) then they just
don't get it.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Nov  4 11:58:24 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 08:58:24 -0800
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <BF8FF47D.3007A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
References: <BF8FF47D.3007A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1862397146.20051104085824@ahsoftware.net>

Jim-

Thursday, November 3, 2005, 5:08:13 PM, you wrote:

> am done.  Cross platform made dead easy... (with emphasis on... well... all
> of the words.)

...except maybe for "dead"... <g>

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Nov  4 12:03:18 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 09:03:18 -0800
Subject: Controlling External Devices
In-Reply-To: <436AED27.1080403@chipp.com>
References: <EBC13A25-8268-464D-BAD4-39EC9444B339@mac.com>
	<f99b52860511031615u19fa2f36ge20319362699baa8@mail.gmail.com>
	<436AED27.1080403@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <302690779.20051104090318@ahsoftware.net>

Chipp-

Thursday, November 3, 2005, 9:09:59 PM, you wrote:

> Chris did spend a significant amount of time writing a USB external for
> both Mac and PC, but after taking a look at the way data is handled 
> through a USB connection, we decided it would take way too much 
> hand-holding tech support to ever release such a product.

Bummer. I was looking forward to that. Any plans to open-source it
then?

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Nov  4 12:05:20 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 17:05:20 +0000
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <1292173705.20051104085441@ahsoftware.net>
References: <B972D381-A253-4961-B00D-AC4B8E6A0EE5@danshafer.com>	<15627509246.20051103163751@ahsoftware.net>	<7348a9e80511031651u51058023w9f844c659fb3367f@mail.gmail.com>	<436B6D57.7050001@welshpiper.com>
	<1292173705.20051104085441@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <436B94D0.20201@tweedly.net>

Mark Wieder wrote:

>Erin-
>
>Friday, November 4, 2005, 6:16:55 AM, you wrote:
>
>  
>
>>(2) My next concern was power and ability; a look at the command and
>>    
>>
>
>and maybe 2.5: I find myself some four to five times as productive
>writing xtalk as c++ or java. Part of that's getting out of the
>code-compile-debug-repeat cycle, part is the near-natural language
>syntax, part is the power that's built into the engine, part is the
>flexibility.
>
>  
>
And for me a large part is the quality and quantity of help, both 
contributions and answers to questions, that is available on this list - 
probably the biggest single boost to productivity in xtalk, IMO.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net

-------------- next part --------------
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/161 - Release Date: 03/11/2005

From mcdomi at free.fr  Fri Nov  4 12:11:48 2005
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 18:11:48 +0100
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <1472299666.20051104085646@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <1h5il5b.2gvtfo1d55ypsM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:

> Welcome to the list. I find that if someone already knows what
> HyperCard is then there's no problem. If they don't (most of the
> managers I talk with when trying to pitch a project) then they just
> don't get it.

Anybody knows that HyperCard is just a Rolodex?!

-- 
HC4ever?



From mcdomi at free.fr  Fri Nov  4 12:14:39 2005
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 18:14:39 +0100
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <1h5il5b.2gvtfo1d55ypsM%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <1h5ilaw.5k9d3mgjioe8M%mcdomi@free.fr>

Dom <mcdomi at free.fr> wrote:

> Anybody knows that HyperCard is just a Rolodex?!

understand: *everybody* ;-)

-- 
Maybe correct, also



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Nov  4 12:18:00 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 09:18:00 -0800
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <1h5il5b.2gvtfo1d55ypsM%mcdomi@free.fr>
References: <1h5il5b.2gvtfo1d55ypsM%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <436B97C8.6020003@fourthworld.com>

Dom wrote:
> Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Welcome to the list. I find that if someone already knows what
>>HyperCard is then there's no problem. If they don't (most of the
>>managers I talk with when trying to pitch a project) then they just
>>don't get it.
> 
> 
> Anybody knows that HyperCard is just a Rolodex?!

Yes, about as much as we can trust the last official word on HyperCard 
from any Apple representative:

   "Rumors of HyperCard being discontinued at bullsh*t."
      - Steve Jobs, at the CAUSE conference
        in Long Beach, CA, 1998

I keep waiting to see the "When will Apple come clean?" page that has 
that quote with a ticker counting the number of days since it was said. ;)

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Nov  4 12:19:41 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 09:19:41 -0800
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <1862397146.20051104085824@ahsoftware.net>
References: <BF8FF47D.3007A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
	<1862397146.20051104085824@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <34D13F1A-5C3F-458A-9235-0C531CEADC23@danshafer.com>

So, maybe:

For experienced programmers: Cross-platform software made easy

For hobbyists/Inventive Users: Tinker Toys to make your computer do  
the things YOU need

And for those with HyperCard awareness: HyperCard on steroids, cross- 
platform, blazingly fast, in full color

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Fri Nov  4 12:24:04 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 17:24:04 +0000
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <OF9A2672EF.676D2855-ONC12570AF.00542371-C12570AF.005436B3@deutsche-boerse
	.com>
References: <OF9A2672EF.676D2855-ONC12570AF.00542371-C12570AF.005436B3@deutsche-boerse
	.com>
Message-ID: <a05210601bf9147502c8c@[192.168.0.101]>

The main difference is that if the whole hospital does blow up, it's 
easy enough to start again (if a pain), e.g. restart the 
machine/IDE/whatever. But in runrev when you tamper with a stack, you 
can put it into a state whereby it won't open again! This really that 
is really strange and frightening for C/C++ programmers since they 
are used to being able to go back to a clean state, e.g. when you 
open your source file with the C/C++ IDE it won't blow up in your 
face. e.g. it's only once you press the run button that you are in 
any danger.

I suppose a better analogy is that C/C++ is like a Movie on a DVD. 
You can start again from a fresh state whenever you like. RunRev is 
like Live TV, that can be paused not not rewound.

  However you look at it, it's hard to explain!

Have a great weekend
All the Best
Dave

>  > Working in the RunRev IDE developing Applications, is like doing open
>>  brain sugery with the patient still awake and helping you! If you hit
>>  the wrong part of the "brain" this will cause an involuntary reaction
>>  whereby an arm or leg will suddenly fly out and whack you!!!
>>
>>  Just my .5 cents worth!
>>  Dave
>
>Dave, that's still better than having the whole hospital blowing up (in
>C++)
>if you look at the patient wrong before operation ;)
>
>LOL
>
>X
>
>
>-----------------------------------------
>To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
>recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
>standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.
>
>Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
>
>IMPORTANT MESSAGE
>
>Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
>International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
>this message.
>
>The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
>legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
>not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
>any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
>prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
>those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
>states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
>its affiliates or subsidiaries.
>
>END OF DISCLAIMER
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Fri Nov  4 12:25:44 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 17:25:44 +0000
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <34D13F1A-5C3F-458A-9235-0C531CEADC23@danshafer.com>
References: <BF8FF47D.3007A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
	<1862397146.20051104085824@ahsoftware.net>
	<34D13F1A-5C3F-458A-9235-0C531CEADC23@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <a05210602bf9149f0ca4e@[192.168.0.101]>

>So, maybe:
>
>For experienced programmers: Cross-platform software made easy

The problem is that every other cross platform solution boasts the same slogan!

All the Best
Dave


From david at openpartnership.net  Fri Nov  4 12:29:03 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 18:29:03 +0100
Subject: Access Address Book or iCal
In-Reply-To: <p06230925bf91354bd334@[192.168.1.104]>
References: <BF9108E6.3048%paulclaude@postino.it>
	<p06230925bf91354bd334@[192.168.1.104]>
Message-ID: <55AD96BF-5DE0-4BDA-8DDD-250205ECA386@openpartnership.net>

On 4 Nov 2005, at 16:58, Stephen Barncard wrote:

> iCal uses an industry standard format - and it's XML. The files  
> live in the library somewhere...

Not quite - iCal uses the vCal standard. Recent version of iCal uses  
XML based pList files to created indexes of the wierdly named files -  
but that is a minor point. I am working on both cVard, vCal and Apple  
Address Book integration over the last week - should be finished the  
first beta on Wednesday - any testers?


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Nov  4 12:31:14 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 09:31:14 -0800
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <436B6D57.7050001@welshpiper.com>
References: <B972D381-A253-4961-B00D-AC4B8E6A0EE5@danshafer.com>	<15627509246.20051103163751@ahsoftware.net>	<7348a9e80511031651u51058023w9f844c659fb3367f@mail.gmail.com>
	<436B6D57.7050001@welshpiper.com>
Message-ID: <436B9AE2.3060505@fourthworld.com>

Erin D. Smale wrote:
> My description of Rev is an RAD tool that lets you construct a GUI as 
> easy as with VB, make it functional with normal language code, and work 
> with all the files, databases, and I/O devices you'd expect it to. Oh, 
> it lets you compile for Windows, MAC, and 'NIX, as well.

It's somewhere between funny and sad, but I find one thing that 
impresses folks who have experience programming on Windows is that the 
Rev engine is self-contained, and unlike VB or ToolBook doesn't require 
an army of DLLs strewn all over the hard drive.

I tell 'em: "The engine weighs in at just 2MB and is totally 
self-contained -- it's the end of DLL conflicts", and they damn near 
fall out of their chair.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Nov  4 12:32:56 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 09:32:56 -0800
Subject: Access Address Book or iCal
In-Reply-To: <55AD96BF-5DE0-4BDA-8DDD-250205ECA386@openpartnership.net>
References: <BF9108E6.3048%paulclaude@postino.it>	<p06230925bf91354bd334@[192.168.1.104]>
	<55AD96BF-5DE0-4BDA-8DDD-250205ECA386@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <436B9B48.9060100@fourthworld.com>

David Bovill wrote:
> I am working on both cVard, vCal and Apple  
> Address Book integration over the last week - should be finished the  
> first beta on Wednesday - any testers?

Wanna sell that library?  That'd be quite a time-saver.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Nov  4 12:45:23 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 15:45:23 -0200
Subject: Access Address Book or iCal
In-Reply-To: <BF9108E6.3048%paulclaude@postino.it>
References: <BF9108E6.3048%paulclaude@postino.it>
Message-ID: <4FA06B5F-EFE7-4EF0-914A-196BF5ACFCAF@mac.com>


On Nov 4, 2005, at 9:47 AM, Paul Claude wrote:

> On 21 feb Joel Guillod asked for this:
>
>> Is there a way to access to the Mac OS X Address Book from  
>> Revolution?
>> I found that RealBasic provides classes to do this so you can read  
>> from
>> or write to the
>> Address Book.
>
> Someone knows a way to access Address Book or iCal files without using
> AppleScript?
>
>

well, if you're not using applescript (which is the easier way to  
access address book and ical), you can always write your own vCard  
and iCalendar files and iCal/Address Book will read them.

cheers
andre



> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Nov  4 12:47:15 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 15:47:15 -0200
Subject: Access Address Book or iCal
In-Reply-To: <p06230925bf91354bd334@[192.168.1.104]>
References: <BF9108E6.3048%paulclaude@postino.it>
	<p06230925bf91354bd334@[192.168.1.104]>
Message-ID: <66A837D7-E0CE-43A1-80EE-95C854A07536@mac.com>


On Nov 4, 2005, at 1:58 PM, Stephen Barncard wrote:

> iCal uses an industry standard format - and it's XML. The files  
> live in the library somewhere...

iCal uses iCalendar (aka vCalendar 2.0), which is a industry standard  
but not XML, iCalendar is the only good format that came out of IBM/ 
Microsoft labs IMHO.

Maybe iCal uses XML internally, but one should not fiddle with those.  
(meaning, it can break)

cheers
andre

From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Nov  4 12:48:38 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 15:48:38 -0200
Subject: Access Address Book or iCal
In-Reply-To: <55AD96BF-5DE0-4BDA-8DDD-250205ECA386@openpartnership.net>
References: <BF9108E6.3048%paulclaude@postino.it>
	<p06230925bf91354bd334@[192.168.1.104]>
	<55AD96BF-5DE0-4BDA-8DDD-250205ECA386@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <7F28C292-24CB-4984-A363-EE15AAA65AEB@mac.com>


On Nov 4, 2005, at 3:29 PM, David Bovill wrote:

> On 4 Nov 2005, at 16:58, Stephen Barncard wrote:
>
>> iCal uses an industry standard format - and it's XML. The files  
>> live in the library somewhere...
>
> Not quite - iCal uses the vCal standard. Recent version of iCal  
> uses XML based pList files to created indexes of the wierdly named  
> files - but that is a minor point. I am working on both cVard, vCal  
> and Apple Address Book integration over the last week - should be  
> finished the first beta on Wednesday - any testers?

David,

I also did some vObject library, if you want I can send to you... :D  
(the library needs more error checking)

Cheers
andre


> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Nov  4 13:06:04 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 19:06:04 +0100
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <a05210602bf9149f0ca4e@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <20051104173042.9AB79825310@mail.runrev.com>

 > >So, maybe:
> >
> >For experienced programmers: Cross-platform software made easy
> 
> The problem is that every other cross platform solution 
> boasts the same slogan!

don't say that too fast... :)



From esmale at welshpiper.com  Fri Nov  4 13:22:55 2005
From: esmale at welshpiper.com (Erin D. Smale)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 13:22:55 -0500
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <436B9AE2.3060505@fourthworld.com>
References: <B972D381-A253-4961-B00D-AC4B8E6A0EE5@danshafer.com>	<15627509246.20051103163751@ahsoftware.net>	<7348a9e80511031651u51058023w9f844c659fb3367f@mail.gmail.com>	<436B6D57.7050001@welshpiper.com>
	<436B9AE2.3060505@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <436BA6FF.3070105@welshpiper.com>

Richard Gaskin wrote:

> It's somewhere between funny and sad, but I find one thing that 
> impresses folks who have experience programming on Windows is that the 
> Rev engine is self-contained, and unlike VB or ToolBook doesn't 
> require an army of DLLs strewn all over the hard drive. 

Avoiding DLL-Hell is a great point to include when I go evangelising. 
Imagine how much time one saves not writing or supporting them...Imagine 
how many headaches users will avoid... :-D

-Erin




From jeff at siphonophore.com  Fri Nov  4 13:30:17 2005
From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeffrey Reynolds)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 13:30:17 -0500
Subject: Controlling External Devices
In-Reply-To: <20051104171548.5241B825325@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051104171548.5241B825325@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <0d3562641eeb26944ebb33f3a592be56@siphonophore.com>

this is also the feedback i got when i asked a few folks about the 
possibility of doing usb communications. highly variable depending on 
the hardware you are talking to. not as simple as the good olde serial 
signal. Hopefully most things we will want to control will hop over usb 
to a net connection... although there are a few input devices like 
magnetic card scanners that are moving to usb and would be nice to 
easily access from rev.

cheers,

jeff

On Nov 4, 2005, at 12:15 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

>> Chris did spend a significant amount of time writing a USB external 
>> for
>> both Mac and PC, but after taking a look at the way data is handled
>> through a USB connection, we decided it would take way too much
>> hand-holding tech support to ever release such a product.



From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Nov  4 13:30:57 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 16:30:57 -0200
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <436BA6FF.3070105@welshpiper.com>
References: <B972D381-A253-4961-B00D-AC4B8E6A0EE5@danshafer.com>
	<15627509246.20051103163751@ahsoftware.net>
	<7348a9e80511031651u51058023w9f844c659fb3367f@mail.gmail.com>
	<436B6D57.7050001@welshpiper.com>
	<436B9AE2.3060505@fourthworld.com>
	<436BA6FF.3070105@welshpiper.com>
Message-ID: <92AD20C9-3AD9-43BC-9B26-C243D6702FA3@mac.com>


On Nov 4, 2005, at 4:22 PM, Erin D. Smale wrote:

> Avoiding DLL-Hell is a great point to include when I go  
> evangelising. Imagine how much time one saves not writing or  
> supporting them...Imagine how many headaches users will avoid... :-D
>
> -Erin

I was telling a friend coder this, and then he said: "okay, it's all  
static linked, what is the huge size of the engine?", when I showed  
him... he went blank like all his faith was being tested...

cheers
andre

From mpease at lawandpolitics.com  Fri Nov  4 13:40:35 2005
From: mpease at lawandpolitics.com (Michael)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 10:40:35 -0800
Subject: How to tell a line from a paragraph?
In-Reply-To: <20051103123954.D6513825196@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BF90EB23.D617%mpease@lawandpolitics.com>

Hi:

> Geoff Canyon <gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com> wrote:

> Check out the formattedText property. It gives you back the text of a
> field with returns inserted where the text is wrapped in the field.

Hey, that works great, Geoff! And so simply too... I completely missed that
property.

Thanks,

m






From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Nov  4 13:42:33 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 12:42:33 -0600
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <1h5il5b.2gvtfo1d55ypsM%mcdomi@free.fr>
References: <1h5il5b.2gvtfo1d55ypsM%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <436BAB99.9090609@hyperactivesw.com>

Dom wrote:
> Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Welcome to the list. I find that if someone already knows what
>>HyperCard is then there's no problem. If they don't (most of the
>>managers I talk with when trying to pitch a project) then they just
>>don't get it.
> 
> 
> Anybody knows that HyperCard is just a Rolodex?!
> 

For those who are wondering about this, Dom is refering to comments that 
Phil Schiller made when I met with him about the decline of HyperCard 
some years ago. He told me that HyperCard was really "just a Rolodex" 
with little programming value, thereby proving that he knew nothing at 
all about the product he was encouraging Steve Job to kill.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From rjb at robelko.com  Fri Nov  4 13:45:45 2005
From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 19:45:45 +0100
Subject: Controlling External Devices
In-Reply-To: <0d3562641eeb26944ebb33f3a592be56@siphonophore.com>
References: <20051104171548.5241B825325@mail.runrev.com>
	<0d3562641eeb26944ebb33f3a592be56@siphonophore.com>
Message-ID: <a06110415bf915b67e67d@[141.89.100.174]>

>this is also the feedback i got when i asked a few folks about the 
>possibility of doing usb communications. highly variable depending 
>on the hardware you are talking to. not as simple as the good olde 
>serial signal. Hopefully most things we will want to control will 
>hop over usb to a net connection... although there are a few input 
>devices like magnetic card scanners that are moving to usb and would 
>be nice to easily access from rev.
>
>cheers,
>
>jeff

I just discovered a USB I/O device in Germany that can be used from 
Revolution. However, it uses AppleScript to talk to the hardware. It 
works under OS9 and OSX.

http://www.bkohg.com/index_e.html

Robert


From marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu  Fri Nov  4 14:11:34 2005
From: marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu (Marty Billingsley)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 13:11:34 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <20051104171548.3509282530F@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051104171548.3509282530F@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0511041308430.15693@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>

Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com> sez:
>
> So, maybe:
>
> For experienced programmers: Cross-platform software made easy
>
> For hobbyists/Inventive Users: Tinker Toys to make your computer do
> the things YOU need
>
> And for those with HyperCard awareness: HyperCard on steroids, cross-
> platform, blazingly fast, in full color

And what do you say to non-programmers, particularly school administrators
who want to know why we should use this product to teach programming?

  - marty

--
Marty Billingsley (marty at ucls.uchicago.edu)
The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools


From mcdomi at free.fr  Fri Nov  4 14:15:53 2005
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 20:15:53 +0100
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <436BAB99.9090609@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <1h5iquz.vw0l91rhxxdsM%mcdomi@free.fr>

J. Landman Gay <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:

> For those who are wondering about this, Dom is refering to comments that
> Phil Schiller made when I met with him about the decline of HyperCard
> some years ago. He told me that HyperCard was really "just a Rolodex"
> with little programming value, thereby proving that he knew nothing at
> all about the product he was encouraging Steve Job to kill.

By the way, among the demo stacks which were delivered with HyperCard,
one could find... a Rolodex stack!

When will RR deliver a demo Rolodex Stack with Revolution?

;-)

-- 
Revolutionario



From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Fri Nov  4 14:24:48 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 11:24:48 -0800
Subject: Controlling External Devices
In-Reply-To: <a06110415bf915b67e67d@[141.89.100.174]>
References: <20051104171548.5241B825325@mail.runrev.com>
	<0d3562641eeb26944ebb33f3a592be56@siphonophore.com>
	<a06110415bf915b67e67d@[141.89.100.174]>
Message-ID: <p06230929bf9163399737@[192.168.1.104]>

On quick glance, I don't think hooking up REV to this thing would be that hard.

Looking at this company's broad offerings for OSX and 9, and the fact 
that they've created software hooks for almost every other 
programming platform (including HC on OS 9) - They seem open and 
flexible.

I think that if someone had a project in REV that could use their 
product that they would be pleased as hell and would probably bend 
over backwards to help develop the needed externals to use with REV. 
Then they could add REV to their list of supported. I have a feeling 
the application-specific code is quite small; this is what is 
installed on the host machine with their installer:

The installation program "SERVICE USB.pkg" installs the driver, which 
consists of the following components:

  /Library/Frameworks/Service USB Driver.framework Contains 
Frameworks, which contains all control applications for SERVICE USB.

/Library/ScriptingAdditions/SERVICE USB.osax Contains the AppleScript support.

/Library/Receipts/SERVICE USB.pkg Contains the installation program. 
The "Receipts" folder gives an overview of the enhancements that have 
already been installed on the computer.

/Library/StartupItems/SERVICE_USB_FirmwareLoader Ensures that a 
background process (Daemon) begins, which loads the firmware into the 
interface if necessary.

>
>I just discovered a USB I/O device in Germany that can be used from 
>Revolution. However, it uses AppleScript to talk to the hardware. It 
>works under OS9 and OSX.
>
>http://www.bkohg.com/index_e.html
>
>Robert

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Fri Nov  4 14:30:19 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 14:30:19 -0500
Subject: yet another really simple question
Message-ID: <4B3F457A-1697-4345-A58C-AB884B93DA76@conncoll.edu>

I should know this, but I can't locate talk I think I've heard about it:

I've got a (sub)stack with a couple of buttons and a scrolling, list- 
behavior field that covers most of the card. I want command-key  
alternatives to pressing the buttons. I put handlers in the stack  
script for the commandKeyDown, returnKey, and escapeKey messages, and  
they work fine -- as long as the focus is outside the list field. So  
in the list field's script I put handlers for returnInField,  
escapeKey, and rawKeyDown with an "if" test for "commandKey is down".  
Those work fine too. But this seems silly; I'm duplicating code.

Is there a property I should be setting to make the field not grab  
(for example) the cmd-A  to "select all" lines in the field, or the  
return key and swallowing it? While still letting arrow keys and  
mouse-clicks select a line? Or is there another simple way to  
consolidate this? I'm sure there is, but I can't seem to find it . . .

Charles Hartman



From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Nov  4 14:34:24 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 17:34:24 -0200
Subject: yet another really simple question
In-Reply-To: <4B3F457A-1697-4345-A58C-AB884B93DA76@conncoll.edu>
References: <4B3F457A-1697-4345-A58C-AB884B93DA76@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <743A0506-81D7-4611-BDD3-1970716F00E1@mac.com>

Charles,

there's probably a wiser way to do it than the one I'll tell you now.  
Put all your key handling functions in a button, use the button as  
frontscript, it will trap everything, remember to pass the messages  
to the rest of the message path or your keys will stop working.

cheers
andre


On Nov 4, 2005, at 5:30 PM, Charles Hartman wrote:

> I should know this, but I can't locate talk I think I've heard  
> about it:
>
> I've got a (sub)stack with a couple of buttons and a scrolling,  
> list-behavior field that covers most of the card. I want command- 
> key alternatives to pressing the buttons. I put handlers in the  
> stack script for the commandKeyDown, returnKey, and escapeKey  
> messages, and they work fine -- as long as the focus is outside the  
> list field. So in the list field's script I put handlers for  
> returnInField, escapeKey, and rawKeyDown with an "if" test for  
> "commandKey is down". Those work fine too. But this seems silly;  
> I'm duplicating code.
>
> Is there a property I should be setting to make the field not grab  
> (for example) the cmd-A  to "select all" lines in the field, or the  
> return key and swallowing it? While still letting arrow keys and  
> mouse-clicks select a line? Or is there another simple way to  
> consolidate this? I'm sure there is, but I can't seem to find it . . .
>
> Charles Hartman
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution





From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Nov  4 15:06:38 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 18:06:38 -0200
Subject: Rev and education (Re: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0511041308430.15693@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
References: <20051104171548.3509282530F@mail.runrev.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0511041308430.15693@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <D75B3C4D-5BBA-4698-9F02-511CE475B91B@mac.com>


On Nov 4, 2005, at 5:11 PM, Marty Billingsley wrote:

> And what do you say to non-programmers, particularly school  
> administrators
> who want to know why we should use this product to teach programming?
>
>   - marty

Marty,

for school admins try telling this points:

1) Cheap. Compare the prices of similar solutions, to teach  
programming all you need is dreamcard and there's some educational  
discount I think. I have this firm belief that looking in the eyes of  
school admins and saying the magic "not expensive" word will get you  
half the way.

2) Will run on old hardware. For Rev you don't need blazing fast  
machines with tons of hard drive and a lobotomy to install the  
software. Rev installs easy in small HD and runs nice in all kinds of  
machine.

3) Rev is easy to learn since the syntax resembles english, not  
roller coaster learning curve. So your students can spend more time  
learning the theory behind coding like data structures, algorithms,  
instead of spending months learning syntax of awkward languages like  
C....

4) Rev is a RAD tool, students like to see what they are building,  
it's like some visual feedback needed to give them strength to  
continue. RAD tools are great, I remember the first time I drag &  
dropped a button on a window and it worked... it's was like magic, I  
was in awe, my window had about 12 buttons, they did nothing useful  
but they were my first buttons....

5) Rev is a real world language and not a toy language like logo  
(although it can do logo like stuff), one can use it to create real  
projects so it makes sense using it instead of a incomplete toy  
language.


When I was 14 or 13 and was on school, we had no formal coding  
classes, we had a general "introduction to informatics" class that  
teached some DOS and Windows stuff and word processing. The school  
had no coding class but it would encourage one to learn coding on  
it's own. And how it did it? By supporting student projects.

Here in Brazil we like to believe in the voting process of democracy,  
so we have all kinds of call for votes everywhere, like schools and  
villages. My school had elections for student guild, for name of  
school sports teams, for where should we travel with the classmates.  
As I said we had no formal coding class, but they said to us that if  
we build a software to help the elections and thus keep more trees  
alive, they would use it. So we learned pascal and coded the thing  
and the school used it for years. We did some other software for  
daily use of the school but I cannot recall now.... Such projects  
could not be "done" in Logo (by done, I mean in a sane way) but would  
be piece of cake in Rev/Dreamcard. That's a way to market such tool  
for school use, if teachers could see how kids would be encouraged to  
pursuit tech careers if they built software at the school, real  
software, that the school would use, not critical software, simple  
one. I was one of those kids, when I saw the entire picture, code,  
deliver, people using it, thats when I decided that working with  
computers might be a good thing. I think sometimes teachers don't  
know how to make students feel like this.

my 2 cents
Is my english as incomprehensible as I think it is?

Cheers
andre

From rjb at robelko.com  Fri Nov  4 15:29:07 2005
From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 21:29:07 +0100
Subject: Controlling External Devices
In-Reply-To: <p06230929bf9163399737@[192.168.1.104]>
References: <20051104171548.5241B825325@mail.runrev.com>
	<0d3562641eeb26944ebb33f3a592be56@siphonophore.com>
	<a06110415bf915b67e67d@[141.89.100.174]>
	<p06230929bf9163399737@[192.168.1.104]>
Message-ID: <a0611041abf91729c5e56@[141.89.100.174]>

>On quick glance, I don't think hooking up REV to this thing would be 
>that hard.
>
>Looking at this company's broad offerings for OSX and 9, and the 
>fact that they've created software hooks for almost every other 
>programming platform (including HC on OS 9) - They seem open and 
>flexible.
>
>I think that if someone had a project in REV that could use their 
>product that they would be pleased as hell and would probably bend 
>over backwards to help develop the needed externals to use with REV. 
>Then they could add REV to their list of supported. I have a feeling 
>the application-specific code is quite small; this is what is 
>installed on the host machine with their installer:
>
>The installation program "SERVICE USB.pkg" installs the driver, 
>which consists of the following components:
>
>  /Library/Frameworks/Service USB Driver.framework Contains 
>Frameworks, which contains all control applications for SERVICE USB.
>
>/Library/ScriptingAdditions/SERVICE USB.osax Contains the AppleScript support.
>
>/Library/Receipts/SERVICE USB.pkg Contains the installation program. 
>The "Receipts" folder gives an overview of the enhancements that 
>have already been installed on the computer.
>
>/Library/StartupItems/SERVICE_USB_FirmwareLoader Ensures that a 
>background process (Daemon) begins, which loads the firmware into 
>the interface if necessary.

Yes, I have wondered whether the USB external that Chipp has 
abandonded could be adjusted for a specific device like this. May be 
Chip should discuss this with them (I don't think they have a 
distributor in the US, so this may be a business opportunity).

I may not have said it clearly but the company actually tested that 
their device works fine with Rev using AppleScript. They say the 
syntax is like

   do "set SERVICE output value 85" as applescript

to set the output value to 01010101 binary, for example. For many 
control applications, using AppleScript can be just fine.

They are just looking into developing an example stack for Rev if 
there is enough interest.

Robert


From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Nov  4 15:43:56 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 14:43:56 -0600
Subject: Controlling External Devices
In-Reply-To: <302690779.20051104090318@ahsoftware.net>
References: <EBC13A25-8268-464D-BAD4-39EC9444B339@mac.com>	<f99b52860511031615u19fa2f36ge20319362699baa8@mail.gmail.com>	<436AED27.1080403@chipp.com>
	<302690779.20051104090318@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <436BC80C.4070108@chipp.com>

Open-source it? And you can tell me how that will be less tech support 
for us than selling it? ;-)

All kidding aside, even if we open source it, we'll need to document the 
interface, provide working examples, etc. which is just too much for us 
to take on at this time. Especially considering we're working on new 
altBrowser and altSQLite updates.

best,

Chipp

Mark Wieder wrote:
> Chipp-
> 
> Thursday, November 3, 2005, 9:09:59 PM, you wrote:
> 
> 
>>Chris did spend a significant amount of time writing a USB external for
>>both Mac and PC, but after taking a look at the way data is handled 
>>through a USB connection, we decided it would take way too much 
>>hand-holding tech support to ever release such a product.
> 
> 
> Bummer. I was looking forward to that. Any plans to open-source it
> then?
> 

-- 
--------------
Chipp Walters
www.altuit.com



From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Fri Nov  4 15:47:08 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 12:47:08 -0800
Subject: Dial Phone?
In-Reply-To: <p06230926bf91369f2322@[192.168.1.104]>
References: <1a2.4024bd00.309cdfcd@aol.com>
	<p06230926bf91369f2322@[192.168.1.104]>
Message-ID: <p06200700bf9178c70085@[10.0.1.2]>

I'd also like to dial the phone with a field or button.

How about sending dial commands to the machine's native internal 
modem, then picking up a telephone on same line as modem?

Possible?

Thanks,


Tim


>One has to come up with the tones alone.
>
>I just fired up Hypercard 2.4.1 in Classic and played with the tones 
>for a minute. I think the timing was thrown off by the G4, as it 
>would not loop the samples correctly anymore - something in the code 
>times out and the tones go 'da-da' instead of 'da' for a single 
>number...
>
>Rev has no 'Dial' command, as Hypercard did. In HC, the little 
>samples were only a few cycles long and were looped to get the right 
>timing.
>
>I have the raw DTMF tones stolen from HC and converted to WAV and 
>AIFF - I'll offer them  at http://barncard.com/dial_sounds.zip . The 
>zip is 44k in size.
>
>In Rev you might use the PLAY command with the LOOPING option - but 
>I've never done this. It might be easier to put the tones into an 
>audio editor and cut-paste the tones to the right timing. At that 
>point it might be even better to get a good phone patch for an hour 
>and record all the samples you need from a real phone!
>
>I'll leave the files up for a few hours.
>
>sqb
>
>>Hi Everyone,
>>
>>Is it possible to set up a field so that when you click on a phone number in
>>it the touch tones for the number are broadcast through the computer speaker?
>>
>>Joe,
>>Orlando, Florida
>
>--
>stephen barncard
>s a n  f r a n c i s c o
>- - -  - - - - - - - - -
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Nov  4 15:47:58 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 14:47:58 -0600
Subject: Controlling External Devices
In-Reply-To: <0d3562641eeb26944ebb33f3a592be56@siphonophore.com>
References: <20051104171548.5241B825325@mail.runrev.com>
	<0d3562641eeb26944ebb33f3a592be56@siphonophore.com>
Message-ID: <436BC8FE.30103@chipp.com>

Yes Jeffrey, you are correct.

I think the way to handle USB externals is to right specific externals 
for specific tasks. For instance a TWAIN USB external which could 
interface with TWAIN compliant scanners.

best,

Chipp

Jeffrey Reynolds wrote:
> this is also the feedback i got when i asked a few folks about the 
> possibility of doing usb communications. highly variable depending on 
> the hardware you are talking to. not as simple as the good olde serial 
> signal. Hopefully most things we will want to control will hop over usb 
> to a net connection... although there are a few input devices like 
> magnetic card scanners that are moving to usb and would be nice to 
> easily access from rev.



From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Nov  4 15:55:16 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 12:55:16 -0800
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0511041308430.15693@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
References: <20051104171548.3509282530F@mail.runrev.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0511041308430.15693@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <B0C50AA4-B2B7-4A7C-93FE-0A4D1BD41C47@danshafer.com>

Tough one, Marty, because there are so many free languages out there  
that educational administrators' first knee-jerk reaction (as Andre  
says in his reply) is to look to cost. But if you can get them past  
that point then I imagine Judy Perry will have some compelling  
educational arguments to bolster such a position.

Dan

On Nov 4, 2005, at 11:11 AM, Marty Billingsley wrote:

> Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com> sez:
>>
>> So, maybe:
>>
>> For experienced programmers: Cross-platform software made easy
>>
>> For hobbyists/Inventive Users: Tinker Toys to make your computer do
>> the things YOU need
>>
>> And for those with HyperCard awareness: HyperCard on steroids, cross-
>> platform, blazingly fast, in full color
>
> And what do you say to non-programmers, particularly school  
> administrators
> who want to know why we should use this product to teach programming?
>
>   - marty
>
> --
> Marty Billingsley (marty at ucls.uchicago.edu)
> The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Nov  4 15:56:29 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 14:56:29 -0600
Subject: Controlling External Devices
In-Reply-To: <436BC8FE.30103@chipp.com>
References: <20051104171548.5241B825325@mail.runrev.com>	<0d3562641eeb26944ebb33f3a592be56@siphonophore.com>
	<436BC8FE.30103@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <436BCAFD.8000907@chipp.com>

OOPS, typing w/out thinking again. "right" sic "write"

I need to get Xavier to add grammar checking in his spelling checker.

Chipp Walters wrote:
> Yes Jeffrey, you are correct.
> 
> I think the way to handle USB externals is to right specific externals 
> for specific tasks. For instance a TWAIN USB external which could 
> interface with TWAIN compliant scanners.



From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Fri Nov  4 16:08:49 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 13:08:49 -0800
Subject: Table Fields
Message-ID: <p06200701bf917ab97549@[10.0.1.2]>

Greetings,

A couple of days ago, I asked about "table grids" or "grid tables" or 
something like that. I had my terminology mixed up. No one replied, 
perhaps because my question was perplexing.

I'll try again.

I'm asking about the "table" item in the popup, in the object 
inspector, for fields.

I've tried trial and error, and tried searching the documentation. I 
haven't gotten too far. This thing seems more or less undocumented. 
The various table properties perplex me. I've figured out "tab 
stops." That's about it.

I'm wondering about horizontal and hgrid and vgrid properties for 
tables. They seem related to field tables, but I'm not sure how. They 
seem to have something to do with the "table object" checkbox. But 
what the heck is that?

Ultimately, I'd like to know what one can and can't do with field 
tables (table fields?). I can figure it out by trial and error if I 
understand the interface  a little better.

I'd guess these tables are intended are intended primarily to display 
data formatted by tabs and returns, but I'm only guessing.

Could someone explain, or tell me where to find the needed 
information in the documentation, or suggest a URL, please?


Thanks in advance,


Tim


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Fri Nov  4 16:18:30 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 22:18:30 +0100
Subject: Table Fields
In-Reply-To: <p06200701bf917ab97549@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <p06200701bf917ab97549@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <8E0F6129-A50D-4AFB-8842-8727A4705E60@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Tim,

Table fields in Rev stay not too much documented and, to be frank,  
don't work as well as expected. May be in a next version :-)
In the meantime, you might be interested in a tutorial "How to manage  
table fields" you will access thought "Tutorials Picker" a free  
plugin that interfaces with the So Smart Software website in order to  
display all available tutorials directly from the web.
You will find it by going to http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 4 nov. 05 ? 22:08, Timothy Miller a ?crit :

> A couple of days ago, I asked about "table grids" or "grid tables"  
> or something like that. I had my terminology mixed up. No one  
> replied, perhaps because my question was perplexing.
>
> I'll try again.
>
> I'm asking about the "table" item in the popup, in the object  
> inspector, for fields.
>
> I've tried trial and error, and tried searching the documentation.  
> I haven't gotten too far. This thing seems more or less  
> undocumented. The various table properties perplex me. I've figured  
> out "tab stops." That's about it.
>
> I'm wondering about horizontal and hgrid and vgrid properties for  
> tables. They seem related to field tables, but I'm not sure how.  
> They seem to have something to do with the "table object" checkbox.  
> But what the heck is that?
>
> Ultimately, I'd like to know what one can and can't do with field  
> tables (table fields?). I can figure it out by trial and error if I  
> understand the interface  a little better.
>
> I'd guess these tables are intended are intended primarily to  
> display data formatted by tabs and returns, but I'm only guessing.
>
> Could someone explain, or tell me where to find the needed  
> information in the documentation, or suggest a URL, please?

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From martyknapp at comcast.net  Fri Nov  4 16:51:41 2005
From: martyknapp at comcast.net (Marty Knapp)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 13:51:41 -0800
Subject: Repeat for each
Message-ID: <436BD7ED.4070203@comcast.net>

I have a tab delimited list (8 items per line) of about 65,000 lines. 
All but 1 item are numbers. I?m trying to set it up so that I can enter 
up to two operators per item (>,=, etc) to find a range of numbers. This 
search criteria will then be used to evaluate my big list and place the 
result into a field.

For example, I may need something like this:

item 2 of line x contains ?word? and item 4 of line x >2 and item 8 of 
line x>50 and item 8 of line x<500

I?ve made menu buttons that I select the operators from and a field to 
enter a value. My ?Process? button would then string these conditions 
together and search the list for possible matches.

I?ve always used the repeat with x= structure and for some reason, can?t 
seem to get the repeat for each alternative. With this much data, I need 
something fast. I know even less about arrays, but perhaps they would be 
helpful as well?

Thanks for any help

Marty Knapp


From jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr  Fri Nov  4 17:10:31 2005
From: jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 23:10:31 +0100
Subject: Repeat for each
References: <436BD7ED.4070203@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <436BDC50.45A8585@Club-Internet.fr>



Marty ,

for that amount of data, an SQL DB is also a solution
(and perhaps the fastest one)...

JB

> I have a tab delimited list (8 items per line) of about 65,000 lines.
> All but 1 item are numbers. I?m trying to set it up so that I can enter
> up to two operators per item (>,=, etc) to find a range of numbers. This
> search criteria will then be used to evaluate my big list and place the
> result into a field.
>
> For example, I may need something like this:
>
> item 2 of line x contains ?word? and item 4 of line x >2 and item 8 of
> line x>50 and item 8 of line x<500
>
> I?ve made menu buttons that I select the operators from and a field to
> enter a value. My ?Process? button would then string these conditions
> together and search the list for possible matches.
>
> I?ve always used the repeat with x= structure and for some reason, can?t
> seem to get the repeat for each alternative. With this much data, I need
> something fast. I know even less about arrays, but perhaps they would be
> helpful as well?
>
> Thanks for any help
>
> Marty Knapp
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From SimPLsol at aol.com  Fri Nov  4 17:09:17 2005
From: SimPLsol at aol.com (SimPLsol at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 17:09:17 EST
Subject: Repeat for each
Message-ID: <208.d78c1ec.309d360d@aol.com>

Marty,
I have a number of data set similar to yours.
One of them required 2 minutes to build the selected list with "repeat with"; 
it took less than 2 seconds with "repeat for". It worth the effort to master 
this type of repeat!
Paul Looney


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 17:23:07 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 08:23:07 +1000
Subject: Repeat for each
In-Reply-To: <436BD7ED.4070203@comcast.net>
References: <436BD7ED.4070203@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511041423n79e75e66vad2415b22f70162c@mail.gmail.com>

> I have a tab delimited list (8 items per line) of about 65,000 lines.
> All but 1 item are numbers. I'm trying to set it up so that I can enter
> up to two operators per item (>,=, etc) to find a range of numbers. This
> search criteria will then be used to evaluate my big list and place the
> result into a field.
>
> For example, I may need something like this:
>
> item 2 of line x contains "word" and item 4 of line x >2 and item 8 of
> line x>50 and item 8 of line x<500
>
> I've made menu buttons that I select the operators from and a field to
> enter a value. My "Process" button would then string these conditions
> together and search the list for possible matches.
>
> I've always used the repeat with x= structure and for some reason, can't
> seem to get the repeat for each alternative. With this much data, I need
> something fast. I know even less about arrays, but perhaps they would be
> helpful as well?
>

Hi Marty,

Assuming you have the script for building your validation line, try
something like this:

repeat for each line theLine in theData
  if  item 2 of theLine contains "word" and item 4 of theLine >2 and \
    item 8 of theLine > 50 and item 8 of theLine <500 then
    -- do stuff
  end if
end repeat

However it might be possible to do a pre-selection using the filter
command. e.g. in your example, you are looking for item 2 to contain
"word". If you started by saying:
  filter theData with "*word*"
you would get rid of all the lines that didn't contain "word" at all.
The remainder may have "word" in the wrong place and the numeric tests
won't have been done, but it might shorten the starting list
significantly.

HTH,
Sarah


From mark at maseurope.net  Fri Nov  4 17:26:41 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 22:26:41 +0000
Subject: Repeat for each
In-Reply-To: <436BD7ED.4070203@comcast.net>
References: <436BD7ED.4070203@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <18BC5128-03F0-4309-9B34-1D6A7228CB2A@maseurope.net>

I tend to exclude rather than include in these situations, so  
something like this?

repeat for each line tLine in tData
     if "word" is not in item 2 of tLine then next repeat
     if item 4 of tLine <= 2 then next repeat
     if item 8 of tLine <= 50 OR item 8 of tLine >= 500 then next repeat
     put tLine & cr after subSet
   end repeat

this kind of loop is usually pretty fast.

the repeat for loop effectively places each line in turn into the  
variable "tLine", with the limitaion that changing tLine itself will  
produce strange results, but it's contents can be read without problem.

Cheers,

Mark

On 4 Nov 2005, at 21:51, Marty Knapp wrote:

> item 2 of line x contains ?word? and item 4 of line x >2 and item 8  
> of line x>50 and item 8 of line x<500



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Nov  4 17:38:39 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 16:38:39 -0600
Subject: ANN: altEmailHarness update..
Message-ID: <436BE2EF.3090807@chipp.com>

Hi folks,

I've updated altEmailHarness (the free wrapper for Sean Shao's free 
libSmtp library) with the following:

1) You can now specify the port you want to use
2) It now writes the From headers with Name <email address> just like 
you favorite email client
3) You can now specify Authentication mode (though usually AUTO works 
just fine)

and, I've made it into an altPlugin (for updating reasons). You can get 
it by putting in the message box:

go URL "http://www.gadgetplugins.com/altplugins/altEmailHarness.rev"

or going to:

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Downloads.htm

best,

Chipp




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Nov  4 17:53:49 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 14:53:49 -0800
Subject: Controlling External Devices
In-Reply-To: <436BC8FE.30103@chipp.com>
References: <20051104171548.5241B825325@mail.runrev.com>
	<0d3562641eeb26944ebb33f3a592be56@siphonophore.com>
	<436BC8FE.30103@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <4023722651.20051104145349@ahsoftware.net>

Chipp-

Friday, November 4, 2005, 12:47:58 PM, you wrote:

> I think the way to handle USB externals is to right specific externals
> for specific tasks. For instance a TWAIN USB external which could 
> interface with TWAIN compliant scanners.

Sad but true. And TWAIN is still one of my favorite acronyms.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From contact at setec-multimedia.fr  Fri Nov  4 18:03:35 2005
From: contact at setec-multimedia.fr (Setec Multimedia)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 00:03:35 +0100
Subject: Application in foreground
In-Reply-To: <20051104213802.25699825396@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051104213802.25699825396@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <f1c7c98d8cea538f1bf0fcb0ac34b1d6@setec-multimedia.fr>

Hello everybody,

Is there a way to automaticly put an application or a rev stack on the 
foreground of the screen after a specified event ?
Even if it was behind other apllications such as photoshop etc.

Thanks for your answers,

Cordialy

Aur?lien D.


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Fri Nov  4 18:13:20 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 15:13:20 -0800
Subject: Table Fields
In-Reply-To: <p06200701bf917ab97549@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <p06200701bf917ab97549@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <p06210246bf91995c1d60@[66.93.39.98]>

At 1:08 PM -0800 11/4/2005, Timothy Miller wrote:
>I've tried trial and error, and tried searching the documentation. I 
>haven't gotten too far. This thing seems more or less undocumented. 
>The various table properties perplex me. I've figured out "tab 
>stops." That's about it.


Hmmm. There was never very much documentation of tables, but what 
there was seems to have gotten lost at some point - or at least I 
can't find it in the 2.61 docs. Here it is, for whatever it's worth:


----
How to create a spreadsheet-like table:

A table field is a field that is displayed as a grid, in the style of 
a spreadsheet. Each line of the field becomes a row, and the columns 
in a row are separated by tab characters. You control a table field's 
behavior using the Table pane of the field's property inspector.

To make a field into a table field, follow these steps:

1.  Open the field's property inspector and choose "Table" from the 
menu at the top of the inspector palette.

2.  Check the "Table object" box to make the field into a table.

3.  If you want, change the baselines, grid, and tab stops settings 
to change the appearance of the table field.

----
How to allow editing of individual cells in a table field:

Normally, a table field is edited like any other field, by entering 
text directly. You can specify that a table field's cells can be 
edited individually. When you click a cell, what you type goes into 
that cell.

To allow cell editing in a table field, in the "Table" pane of the 
field's property inspector, check the box labeled "Cell Editing". 
When you click a cell in the table field, a box appears to let you 
edit the cell's content.

   Tip:  To move between cells when cell editing is enabled, use the 
Tab key, Return key, and arrow keys.

----
How to format numbers in a table field:

To control the format of numbers in a table field, you specify a 
format, along with the cells you want to apply the format to, in the 
field's property inspector. To choose a format, follow these steps:

1.  In the "Table" pane, check the "Cell formatting" box.

2.  Choose a column number from both menus labeled "Format Column".

3.  From the "Using" menu, choose the format you want to use. In the 
"With" box, enter a prefix or suffix, a number of decimal places,  a 
percentage value, or "short", "long", "internet", or "system" for a 
date.

4.  Press the Tab key, then click "Add" to apply the format.

   Note:  You can apply only one format to any particular cell.
-----

-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk  Fri Nov  4 18:21:20 2005
From: mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 23:21:20 +0000
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <436B7D45.5090000@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>	<436A78BA.1050306@chipp.com>	<436A7A58.3020709@fourthworld.com>	<20051103140316.4a3051e2.garretthylltun@gmail.com>	<436A8CF8.2020303@fourthworld.com>	<436A8F34.5030107@chipp.com>
	<436A9C13.8080305@fourthworld.com>
	<436B1C8D.5040806@harbourhost.co.uk>
	<436B7D45.5090000@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <436BECF0.4000208@harbourhost.co.uk>

Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Martin Baxter wrote:
> 
>> Perhaps it might be workable to make it a user preference whether your 
>> app makes registry entries for its file extensions or not. 
>> User-mindset would be an issue to be considered, but this is by no 
>> means unheard-of, and I think this is what I would personally prefer 
>> from an app that could be run in portable or installed modes.
> 
> 
> Of courze _you_ would.  Look at you: you hang out on programming lists. ;)
> 

Troo, no use denying it. (and it's an absorbing and worthwhile activity 
which I recommend to any computer user who wants to get wiser).

But that's what my comment about "mindset" was getting at. Those of your 
users that have understanding, might just appreciate a feature that 
empowers _them_ for a change. Those that lack understanding, well, is 
the .exe going to come pre-installed on removable media ? You don't 
expect them to install it there by themselves surely ? ;-)

Well yes I accept your point. I suppose you would have to hide this 
feature behind the intimidating "Advanced Settings..." button. Like 
Hypercard's "magic" password, that nobody thought to tell Phil Schiller 
about.

Martin Baxter


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 18:22:20 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 09:22:20 +1000
Subject: Application in foreground
In-Reply-To: <f1c7c98d8cea538f1bf0fcb0ac34b1d6@setec-multimedia.fr>
References: <20051104213802.25699825396@mail.runrev.com>
	<f1c7c98d8cea538f1bf0fcb0ac34b1d6@setec-multimedia.fr>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511041522v5cb3dce2j4708766578e0e080@mail.gmail.com>

> Is there a way to automaticly put an application or a rev stack on the
> foreground of the screen after a specified event ?
> Even if it was behind other apllications such as photoshop etc.
>
> Thanks for your answers,
>

On Macs you do it using AppleScript:
 put "tell application " & tAppName & quote & " to activate" into tScript
  do tScript as AppleScript

If it is a Rev stack, set tAppName to "Revolution" and make sure you
have a command to go to your required stack in case it is not the
front stack in Revolution. If this is in a standalone, set tAppName to
 the name of the standalone application.

Cheers,
Sarah


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Nov  4 18:29:59 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 15:29:59 -0800
Subject: checking removable drives
In-Reply-To: <436BECF0.4000208@harbourhost.co.uk>
References: <BF8EE727.2F11D%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<4369A34C.8040708@fourthworld.com>	<436A78BA.1050306@chipp.com>	<436A7A58.3020709@fourthworld.com>	<20051103140316.4a3051e2.garretthylltun@gmail.com>	<436A8CF8.2020303@fourthworld.com>	<436A8F34.5030107@chipp.com>	<436A9C13.8080305@fourthworld.com>	<436B1C8D.5040806@harbourhost.co.uk>	<436B7D45.5090000@fourthworld.com>
	<436BECF0.4000208@harbourhost.co.uk>
Message-ID: <436BEEF7.1050103@fourthworld.com>

Martin Baxter wrote:
> Like Hypercard's "magic" password, that nobody thought to 
> tell Phil Schiller about.

Is that the one that builds rolodex stack automatically? ;)

Or the one that spreads rumors about HyperCard's demise that the CEO 
says are wrong?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From garretthylltun at gmail.com  Fri Nov  4 19:07:04 2005
From: garretthylltun at gmail.com (Garrett R. Hylltun)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 16:07:04 -0800
Subject: Fonts and Revolution
In-Reply-To: <p06210246bf91995c1d60@[66.93.39.98]>
References: <p06200701bf917ab97549@[10.0.1.2]>
	<p06210246bf91995c1d60@[66.93.39.98]>
Message-ID: <20051104160704.3d90ddb1.garretthylltun@gmail.com>

Greetings,

What's the deal on the fonts that we can use in our programs;

  are we limited to what's in the text formatting list?
  can we add our own fonts?
    - If yes, how and what font format?
  antialias support?

Thanks in advance,
-Garrett


From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Fri Nov  4 19:30:05 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 16:30:05 -0800
Subject: Table Fields
In-Reply-To: <8E0F6129-A50D-4AFB-8842-8727A4705E60@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <p06200701bf917ab97549@[10.0.1.2]>
	<8E0F6129-A50D-4AFB-8842-8727A4705E60@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <p06200703bf91ad404d1c@[10.0.1.2]>

Re this thread, many thanks to Eric and Jeanne!


Tim

>Hi Tim,
>
>Table fields in Rev stay not too much documented 
>and, to be frank, don't work as well as 
>expected. May be in a next version :-)
>In the meantime, you might be interested in a 
>tutorial "How to manage table fields" you will 
>access thought "Tutorials Picker" a free plugin 
>that interfaces with the So Smart Software 
>website in order to display all available 
>tutorials directly from the web.
>You will find it by going to http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/.
>
>Best Regards from Paris,
>
>Eric Chatonet.
>
>Le 4 nov. 05 ? 22:08, Timothy Miller a ?crit :
>
>>A couple of days ago, I asked about "table 
>>grids" or "grid tables" or something like that. 
>>I had my terminology mixed up. No one replied, 
>>perhaps because my question was perplexing.
>>
>>I'll try again.
>>
>>I'm asking about the "table" item in the popup, 
>>in the object inspector, for fields.
>>
>>I've tried trial and error, and tried searching 
>>the documentation. I haven't gotten too far. 
>>This thing seems more or less undocumented. The 
>>various table properties perplex me. I've 
>>figured out "tab stops." That's about it.


From martyknapp at comcast.net  Fri Nov  4 19:42:13 2005
From: martyknapp at comcast.net (Marty Knapp)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 16:42:13 -0800
Subject: Repeat for each
In-Reply-To: <18BC5128-03F0-4309-9B34-1D6A7228CB2A@maseurope.net>
References: <436BD7ED.4070203@comcast.net>
	<18BC5128-03F0-4309-9B34-1D6A7228CB2A@maseurope.net>
Message-ID: <436BFFE5.4090607@comcast.net>

Mark Smith wrote:

> I tend to exclude rather than include in these situations, so  
> something like this?
>
> repeat for each line tLine in tData
>     if "word" is not in item 2 of tLine then next repeat
>     if item 4 of tLine <= 2 then next repeat
>     if item 8 of tLine <= 50 OR item 8 of tLine >= 500 then next repeat
>     put tLine & cr after subSet
>   end repeat
>
> this kind of loop is usually pretty fast.
>
> the repeat for loop effectively places each line in turn into the  
> variable "tLine", with the limitaion that changing tLine itself will  
> produce strange results, but it's contents can be read without problem.
>
Thanks for all the responses. I'll dive in and see how it goes.


Marty Knapp


From john at debraneys.com  Fri Nov  4 19:59:38 2005
From: john at debraneys.com (John Tregea)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 11:59:38 +1100
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <436BAB99.9090609@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <200511050059.jA50xgHW016650@mail19.syd.optusnet.com.au>

HyperCard!!! Just a Rolodex!!!

I small sampling of projects I did with HyperCard in the 1990's were:

Front end to the Singapore Ministry of Defence payroll system (250,000
transactions per month) integrating Oracle and MD Mars imaging system

Overdraft management system for Bangkok Bank (linking Singapore and
Thailand)

Reseller (spare part) ordering system for Apple Computer interfaced to S38

Information prompter for television anchor people in news 

Network based (pair work) Language learning software for German, Japanese
and French

Document level security system (Military Spec) for 2.5 million personnel
files

Decision support system for processing government funding applications for
tertiary education schemes

Videodisc front ends, spare parts catalogues, etc. etc. etc...

Many of these are still in use today

And BOY am I glad that I can now use that experience with Revolution instead
of being a dinosaur that doesn't write PHP, SOAP, XML, PERL, Java, ASP
etc... :)



-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of J. Landman Gay
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 5:43 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev

Dom wrote:
> Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Welcome to the list. I find that if someone already knows what
>>HyperCard is then there's no problem. If they don't (most of the
>>managers I talk with when trying to pitch a project) then they just
>>don't get it.
> 
> 
> Anybody knows that HyperCard is just a RolodexR!
> 

For those who are wondering about this, Dom is refering to comments that 
Phil Schiller made when I met with him about the decline of HyperCard 
some years ago. He told me that HyperCard was really "just a Rolodex" 
with little programming value, thereby proving that he knew nothing at 
all about the product he was encouraging Steve Job to kill.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Nov  4 20:01:29 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 17:01:29 -0800
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <200511050059.jA50xgHW016650@mail19.syd.optusnet.com.au>
References: <200511050059.jA50xgHW016650@mail19.syd.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <436C0469.2030904@fourthworld.com>

John Tregea wrote:
> HyperCard!!! Just a Rolodex!!!
> 
> I small sampling of projects I did with HyperCard in the 1990's were:
> 
> Front end to the Singapore Ministry of Defence payroll system (250,000
> transactions per month) integrating Oracle and MD Mars imaging system
> 
> Overdraft management system for Bangkok Bank (linking Singapore and
> Thailand)
> 
> Reseller (spare part) ordering system for Apple Computer interfaced to S38
> 
> Information prompter for television anchor people in news 
> 
> Network based (pair work) Language learning software for German, Japanese
> and French
> 
> Document level security system (Military Spec) for 2.5 million personnel
> files
> 
> Decision support system for processing government funding applications for
> tertiary education schemes
> 
> Videodisc front ends, spare parts catalogues, etc. etc. etc...

'Yep, sounds like a rolodex to me.'

- Phil 'Can't tell my arse from a rolodex' Schiller


From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Nov  4 20:40:52 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 17:40:52 -0800
Subject: Repeat for each
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511041423n79e75e66vad2415b22f70162c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <436BD7ED.4070203@comcast.net>
	<f99b52860511041423n79e75e66vad2415b22f70162c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6F06FA27-CF01-4D6A-89E1-95552CE5BC5E@inspiredlogic.com>

On Nov 4, 2005, at 2:23 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>   filter theData with "*word*"

You could probably get just the lines with "word" in the second item  
by doing something like this:

filter theData with "*" & tab & "*word*" & tab & "*" & \
     tab & "*" & tab & "*" & tab & "*" & tab & "*" & tab & "*"

If memory serves though, both of these end up slower than the repeat  
for each method, surprisingly. Just tested: on 5000 lines of data, this:

on mouseUp
   put fld 1 into x
   set the itemdelimiter to tab
   put ticks() into t
   repeat 20
     put x into y
     put empty into z
     repeat for each line L in y
       if item 2 of L contains "word" then put L & cr after z
     end repeat
   end repeat
   put ticks() - t
   put char 1 to -2 of z into fld 2
end mouseUp

returns a time roughly two-thirds that of this:

on mouseUp
   put fld 1 into x
   put ticks() into t
   repeat 20
     put x into y
     filter y with "*word*"
   end repeat
   put ticks() - t
   put y into fld 2
end mouseUp

And the second solution doesn't even check afterward to see that  
"word" was in the second item!

My suggested filter at the top is slower still.

Both solutions seem to scale linearly, so repeat for each is probably  
the way to go regardless of the size of your data set.


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Fri Nov  4 20:52:03 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 17:52:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <09F9A158-32F1-434F-9978-216136DD2F6F@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511041749270.24524-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

And, when I recently mentioned it to Chris Crawford of 'The Art of
Computer Game Design,' he said that he only wished that he'd heard of Rev
before wading neck-deep into Java.

Judy

On Thu, 3 Nov 2005, Dan Shafer wrote:

> I've been known to call it Java without the Java.
>
> Dan



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Fri Nov  4 20:55:46 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 17:55:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <436B97C8.6020003@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511041755180.24524-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Have you mentioned it to Charles Flickinger?

Judy

On Fri, 4 Nov 2005, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>    "Rumors of HyperCard being discontinued at bullsh*t."
>       - Steve Jobs, at the CAUSE conference
>         in Long Beach, CA, 1998
>
> I keep waiting to see the "When will Apple come clean?" page that has
> that quote with a ticker counting the number of days since it was said. ;)



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Fri Nov  4 21:06:22 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 18:06:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0511041308430.15693@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511041757330.24524-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Ayyy, now there's the rub!

Well, hmmm...

For teaching programming to the K-12 crowd, I'd emphasize that you can
teach  many basic programming concepts without the overhead of stuff that
really should be taught later (such as declaring data types, etc.) along
the proven path of the Analytical Engine method, using markedly similar
software to that which used in the original AE.

I'd mention that the company offers generous educational discounts.

I'd mention points made in my thesis about why Rev's particular approach
to programming is ideal for novice/newbie programmers (if it weren't
electronically stored on a device needing data recovery, that is; yup,
the main harddrive and the backup both failed at the same time).

And I'd mention that they can run it in any of the major computer lab
environments (with the exception of those containing machines that well
and truly belong in the Smithsonian).

And now I need to get back to my own personal version of the
highly-compelling reality show 'kiddies gone wild'.

Judy



On Fri, 4 Nov 2005, Marty Billingsley wrote:

> And what do you say to non-programmers, particularly school administrators
> who want to know why we should use this product to teach programming?



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Nov  4 21:17:02 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 18:17:02 -0800
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511041749270.24524-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511041749270.24524-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <436C161E.5010704@fourthworld.com>

Judy Perry wrote:
> And, when I recently mentioned it to Chris Crawford of 'The Art of
> Computer Game Design,' he said that he only wished that he'd heard of Rev
> before wading neck-deep into Java.

You know the great Chris Crawford?!  He's a god. Loved Siboot -- nothing 
like it at the time.

He spoke at a game developer gathering here in LA many years ago -- yep, 
he brought his legendary whip to punctuate key points in his talk. :)

Great guy.  He's done so much for the gaming community (not to mention 
the Mac community), but in this era of 3D fetishism it doesn't seem his 
contributions are as widely acknowleded as deserved.

Tell him it's never too late to start with Rev -- next time I'm up his 
way I'd even donate a day of "Rev as a second language" orientation just 
for the chance to talk with him a spell.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Fri Nov  4 21:23:32 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 18:23:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <B0C50AA4-B2B7-4A7C-93FE-0A4D1BD41C47@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511041808000.24524-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

I dunno... maybe I'm at the wrong educational institution, because I can
tell you that where I am, admin-types would vastly prefer to pay
bucketloads of dollars for something that "everybody" uses and "everybody"
has heard of as opposed to a validly competitive free product.

To wit:  from the California Virtual Campus consortium
(http://www.cvc4.org/newscopy/Current_Events/may_update.asp)

The state of California in 2003 paid the following fees to license
Blackboard as an online course delivery system:

25 courses:  $3,750
Unlimited:   $7,500
(I think this is per participating institution but could be wrong).

Ditto for WebCT:

Level One-CVC Consortia License
100 seats $1000
200 seats $2000
400 seats $4000
600 seats $6000
Level Two- Campus Focus License

3000 Seats $7500
6000 Seats $15000

Now, mind you, Moodle (http://www.moodle.org) is... (drum roll, please):

FREE.

And, now there's apparently a new kid on the block, CourseCompass
(http://info.coursecompass.com/website/faq-general.html) that is probably
still a 'nobody' but aims to be a 'somebody' or even an 'everybody' by
teaming up with the major educational publishing houses to make content
easily (exclusively?) available online via their system.

Judy

On Fri, 4 Nov 2005, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Tough one, Marty, because there are so many free languages out there
> that educational administrators' first knee-jerk reaction (as Andre
> says in his reply) is to look to cost. But if you can get them past
> that point then I imagine Judy Perry will have some compelling
> educational arguments to bolster such a position.



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Fri Nov  4 21:36:09 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 18:36:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <436C161E.5010704@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511041824440.24524-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

On Fri, 4 Nov 2005, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> You know the great Chris Crawford?!  He's a god. Loved Siboot -- nothing
> like it at the time.

Well, it's not like we do lunch or anything... he'd probably be
hard-pressed to remember my name.

I sought him out when I found that his great book was out of print but
that a PDF of it was available.  I asked for his permission to use it in
my class, and he was most agreeable about it.

I've been trying for ages to get him to come speak to my class, but he's
never in town at a good time.  He's said that he's amenable to the idea,
but, for instance, he wasn't in SoCal last term until I think June
(classes end in May).

I contacted him about Rev after receiving a recent Erazametrzz (? or
whatever it is) newsletter in which he mentioned that he was finally
porting his Erasmatron (again, or whatever it's called) software to PC
and how much fun Java was not.

I told him that if he'd ever used Hypercard and didn't hate the HC type of
programming environment, he should check out Rev.  He replied that he was
a real HC fan and echoed the sentiment many of us had regarding Apple
letting it die.

> but in this era of 3D fetishism it doesn't seem his
> contributions are as widely acknowleded as deserved.

I dunno... I've tried to keep a wandering eye on recdent game dev
texts/books and it seems that many still go out of their way to interview
him, get him to write a foreword or some such thing.  But it's definitely
an homage sort of thing.  And, he has deliberately gotten himself out of
the arena by veering into I believe it is interactive fiction (shades of
one of the Miller brothers?).

And I just LOVE his programming books/writings!

Judy



From jhurley at infostations.com  Fri Nov  4 21:37:29 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 18:37:29 -0800
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <20051105015200.E8E45825477@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051105015200.E8E45825477@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230910bf91c9a4264b@[69.85.158.116]>

>
>Message: 19
>Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 18:17:02 -0800
>From: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
>Subject: Re: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Message-ID: <436C161E.5010704 at fourthworld.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>Judy Perry wrote:
>  > And, when I recently mentioned it to Chris Crawford of 'The Art of
>>  Computer Game Design,' he said that he only wished that he'd heard of Rev
>>  before wading neck-deep into Java.
>
>You know the great Chris Crawford?!  He's a god. Loved Siboot -- nothing
>like it at the time.
>
>He spoke at a game developer gathering here in LA many years ago -- yep,
>he brought his legendary whip to punctuate key points in his talk. :)
>
>Great guy.  He's done so much for the gaming community (not to mention
>the Mac community), but in this era of 3D fetishism it doesn't seem his
>contributions are as widely acknowleded as deserved.
>
>Tell him it's never too late to start with Rev -- next time I'm up his
>way I'd even donate a day of "Rev as a second language" orientation just
>for the chance to talk with him a spell.
>
-

Richard and Judy,

I suspect this is the same Chris Crawford that was a physics major at 
UC Davis many years back. I never had him as a student but he was 
legendary among his classmates. Always had a stuffed animal under his 
arm--a green frog, as I recall. Very bright, very eccentric.

Jim


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Fri Nov  4 21:42:45 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 18:42:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <p06230910bf91c9a4264b@[69.85.158.116]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511041840060.24524-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Another physics major?!!!

(Jeanne's a successful one, I'm a flunk-out).

@;-)

Judy

On Fri, 4 Nov 2005, Jim Hurley wrote:

> Richard and Judy,
>
> I suspect this is the same Chris Crawford that was a physics major at
> UC Davis many years back. I never had him as a student but he was
> legendary among his classmates. Always had a stuffed animal under his
> arm--a green frog, as I recall. Very bright, very eccentric.
>



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Nov  4 22:17:54 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 19:17:54 -0800
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <436C161E.5010704@fourthworld.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511041749270.24524-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<436C161E.5010704@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <439566794.20051104191754@ahsoftware.net>

Richard-

Friday, November 4, 2005, 6:17:02 PM, you wrote:

> You know the great Chris Crawford?!  He's a god. Loved Siboot -- nothing
> like it at the time.

Now that's a name I haven't heard in years. I did a quick search:
Siboot II is available here:

http://www.erasmatazz.com/free.html

Apparently Siboot only sold some 5000 copies back in the day.

...and the Erasmatron is now at version 4 and

"Erasmatron 4 is being rebuilt from the ground up in Java in order to
enable full cross-platform compatibility."

http://www.erasmatazz.com/Erasmatron4/Erasmatron4.html

It's not too late to discover what true cross-platform compatibility
is like... looking at the Deikto dictionary, this seems like something
that's *very* easy to do in rev, and I wouldn't even attempt this in
java. The one nice thing about doing it in java, though, is that you
have real subclasses instead of having to fake them in xtalk.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Nov  4 22:15:54 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 19:15:54 -0800
Subject: Chris Crawford [was: Why It's Hard to Explain Rev]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511041824440.24524-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511041824440.24524-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <436C23EA.8050309@fourthworld.com>

Judy Perry wrote:
> I told him that if he'd ever used Hypercard and didn't hate the HC type of
> programming environment, he should check out Rev.  He replied that he was
> a real HC fan and echoed the sentiment many of us had regarding Apple
> letting it die.

But Apple didn't let it die.  Remember what Steve Jobs told us all? ;)

> And I just LOVE his programming books/writings!

I wonder if he'd be willing to open the source for Trust and Betrayal to 
see if one of the energetic souls here would be willing to port it to Rev.

I just downloaded it from his site:
<http://www.erasmatazz.com/free.html>

Runs great in Classic, but oh such a tiny screen (written for the ol' 
512x342 screens).

Judging from a quick look at his Erazmatron at 
<http://www.erasmatazz.com/Erasmatron4/Erasmatron4.html> it seems the 
new program builds on some of the corre ideas in Trust and Betrayal. 
Maybe letting someone port Trust and Betrayal would help move Erazmatron 
forward at the same time....

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Nov  4 22:19:34 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 19:19:34 -0800
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <439566794.20051104191754@ahsoftware.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511041749270.24524-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>	<436C161E.5010704@fourthworld.com>
	<439566794.20051104191754@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <436C24C6.1040807@fourthworld.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:
> "Erasmatron 4 is being rebuilt from the ground up in Java in order to
> enable full cross-platform compatibility."
> 
> http://www.erasmatazz.com/Erasmatron4/Erasmatron4.html
> 
> It's not too late to discover what true cross-platform compatibility
> is like... looking at the Deikto dictionary, this seems like something
> that's *very* easy to do in rev, and I wouldn't even attempt this in
> java. The one nice thing about doing it in java, though, is that you
> have real subclasses instead of having to fake them in xtalk.

But to the end user would it matter?

If he can build it faster in Rev and the end-user experience is at least 
as good (probably better since he could use all the time he saves coding 
beefing up the UI), it would seem he'd come out ahead overall.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Fri Nov  4 23:02:14 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 20:02:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Chris Crawford [was: Why It's Hard to Explain Rev]
In-Reply-To: <436C23EA.8050309@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511041958260.27569-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

On Fri, 4 Nov 2005, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I wonder if he'd be willing to open the source for Trust and Betrayal to
> see if one of the energetic souls here would be willing to port it to
Rev.
<snip>
> Judging from a quick look at his Erazmatron at
> <http://www.erasmatazz.com/Erasmatron4/Erasmatron4.html> it seems the
> new program builds on some of the corre ideas in Trust and Betrayal.
> Maybe letting someone port Trust and Betrayal would help move Erazmatron
> forward at the same time....

Well, my experience has been that he's reasonable amenable to reasonable
requests.  Given what he told me, he might well welcome the chance to see
what Rev could offer some of his stuff.

Why not ask him?  I really had the impression that he was not particularly
fond of having to use Java to do cross-plat stuff.

Judy
>



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Fri Nov  4 23:02:58 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 20:02:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <436C24C6.1040807@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511042002310.27569-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Exactly.

Judy

On Fri, 4 Nov 2005, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> If he can build it faster in Rev and the end-user experience is at least
> as good (probably better since he could use all the time he saves coding
> beefing up the UI), it would seem he'd come out ahead overall.



From john at debraneys.com  Fri Nov  4 23:52:43 2005
From: john at debraneys.com (John Tregea)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 15:52:43 +1100
Subject: Tabbeb Panel Behaviour
Message-ID: <200511050452.jA54qhOF026424@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au>

Hi All,

 

Thanks for the list welcome(s). I have struck a funny interface behaviour
and wondered if someone can suggest how to stop it.

 

I have a card that has three tab panels on it. If I click on say tab 2 of
panel 1 it behaves as I would expect. That is the tab comes forward and the
orange highlight strip shows on the top of that tab.

 

The weird bit is that the corresponding tab on every other panel on the card
also gets the orange strip. (in this case the second tab). Only the tab I
click on comes to the front but the others highlight. I am guessing it has
to do with message passing and an instruction targeting any object of that
type on the card but I can't see anything obvious happening in the message
watcher. 

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Oh, each tab panel is grouped with sub groups that are each named to
correspond with the tab name on the panel. None of the names are the same
across the groups, tabs or sub groups.

 


Thanks (in advance) for your help.

 

John T 

 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Nov  5 00:21:05 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 23:21:05 -0600
Subject: Application in foreground
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511041522v5cb3dce2j4708766578e0e080@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BF919D61.2F378%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/4/05 5:22 PM, "Sarah Reichelt" <sarah.reichelt at gmail.com> wrote:

>> Is there a way to automaticly put an application or a rev stack on the
>> foreground of the screen after a specified event ?
>> Even if it was behind other apllications such as photoshop etc.
>> 
>> Thanks for your answers,
>> 
> 
> On Macs you do it using AppleScript:
>  put "tell application " & tAppName & quote & " to activate" into tScript
>   do tScript as AppleScript

And on Windows you can do it with VBScript:

  set WshShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
  WshShell.AppActivate <<TITLE_OR_ID>>

where <<TITLE_OR_ID>> is the title of a window or a process ID number.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sat Nov  5 01:12:40 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 22:12:40 -0800
Subject: Constrain Within Circle?
Message-ID: <BF918D58.24549%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Anyone have a formula to constrain object dragging within a circular region?

I'm guessing something like Arcade Engine has this in it, but I really only
need this one function.

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Nov  5 01:43:08 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 07:43:08 +0100
Subject: Constrain Within Circle?
In-Reply-To: <BF918D58.24549%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <20051105060736.A3D968254A0@mail.runrev.com>

I haven't worked all the geometry functions available yet ;)
don't know the arcade engine

but here's a good source:

http://www.2dcurves.com/conicsection/conicsectionc.html

that's the place for curves ;)

other wise wolfram's reference is absolutely great.

but coming to thing of it, my pie control must do something like 
that...

http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=162

there's a setting button to offset the fields in and out of the 
center of the pie chart. That's the one you are looking for...

the pseudo script would say

r = radius of circle
xy = center of circle or arc
xyR[1..4] are the polygon's rects,

for each item I in xyR 
  if distance xy -> I > r
  you're out of the circle...

cheers
Xavier


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Scott Rossi
> Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 7:13 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Constrain Within Circle?
> 
> Anyone have a formula to constrain object dragging within a 
> circular region?
> 
> I'm guessing something like Arcade Engine has this in it, but 
> I really only need this one function.
> 
> Thanks & Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Nov  5 01:53:21 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 07:53:21 +0100
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <436C24C6.1040807@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20051105061748.F18108254A6@mail.runrev.com>

This is very TAOO ish...

> Mark Wieder wrote:
> > "Erasmatron 4 is being rebuilt from the ground up in Java 
> in order to 
> > enable full cross-platform compatibility."
> > 
> > http://www.erasmatazz.com/Erasmatron4/Erasmatron4.html
> > 
> > It's not too late to discover what true cross-platform 
> compatibility 
> > is like... looking at the Deikto dictionary, this seems 
> like something 
> > that's *very* easy to do in rev, and I wouldn't even 
> attempt this in 
> > java. The one nice thing about doing it in java, though, is 
> that you 
> > have real subclasses instead of having to fake them in xtalk.
> 
> But to the end user would it matter?

Well, if a field can behave correctly because it knows it should
hold a single integer and nothing else and the developper doesn't
have to script that each time - just set a property to the field
which the rawkey handler understands, "context" in the gui does
matter!!!

 
> If he can build it faster in Rev and the end-user experience 
> is at least as good (probably better since he could use all 
> the time he saves coding beefing up the UI), it would seem 
> he'd come out ahead overall.

question is "built it" = what?

Each control I create in TAOO, is the best "end-user experience"
possible in one control. Then I don?t need to rewrite that
control. When I mean create, I also mean the possibility to have
TAOO work on or with the object/control given circumstances. 

Because TAOO is logically oriented and designed, it
only takes minimal effort to replicate. If you put your erasmotron
logic within verbs and objects, I got a doit handler you might
like in TAOO ;)

in one sense Richard is right - do it outright for your needs.
Rev cant be more straight forward than that. But after one year
there is a clear benefit to script reuse and improving your
daily rev experience (which is why plug ins exist for example).

In the other, the sense of "context behavior" for the end-user needs
- on a semantic or contextual level - is "nowhere" in rev. Theirs is
a table field object... a player and some more advanced objects
but in the sense of an ide, it remains (and it should remain so)
unconcerned with user-objects. 

The erasmotron is a "part" of taoo... and it already works in 
rev... why go look further?

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Nov  5 01:55:18 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 07:55:18 +0100
Subject: Application in foreground
In-Reply-To: <BF919D61.2F378%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <20051105061945.139AF8254AC@mail.runrev.com>

Ken

great vbs line. Can I add it as a contribution (fully credited by you) to
TAOO?

in return I'll let you know where to find the TAOO vbs library ;)

cheers
Xavier 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ray
> Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 6:21 AM
> To: Use Revolution List
> Subject: Re: Application in foreground
> 
> On 11/4/05 5:22 PM, "Sarah Reichelt" <sarah.reichelt at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >> Is there a way to automaticly put an application or a rev stack on 
> >> the foreground of the screen after a specified event ?
> >> Even if it was behind other apllications such as photoshop etc.
> >> 
> >> Thanks for your answers,
> >> 
> > 
> > On Macs you do it using AppleScript:
> >  put "tell application " & tAppName & quote & " to 
> activate" into tScript
> >   do tScript as AppleScript
> 
> And on Windows you can do it with VBScript:
> 
>   set WshShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
>   WshShell.AppActivate <<TITLE_OR_ID>>
> 
> where <<TITLE_OR_ID>> is the title of a window or a process ID number.
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Nov  5 02:08:45 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 01:08:45 -0600
Subject: Dial Phone?
In-Reply-To: <p06200700bf9178c70085@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <1a2.4024bd00.309cdfcd@aol.com>	<p06230926bf91369f2322@[192.168.1.104]>
	<p06200700bf9178c70085@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <436C5A7D.3080504@hyperactivesw.com>

Timothy Miller wrote:
> I'd also like to dial the phone with a field or button.
> 
> How about sending dial commands to the machine's native internal modem, 
> then picking up a telephone on same line as modem?
> 
> Possible?

Yup:

<http://www.mail-archive.com/use-revolution at lists.runrev.com/msg10455.html>

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From tjframe at gmail.com  Sat Nov  5 03:17:17 2005
From: tjframe at gmail.com (TJ Frame)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 01:17:17 -0700
Subject: Constrain Within Circle?
In-Reply-To: <20051105060736.A3D968254A0@mail.runrev.com>
References: <BF918D58.24549%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<20051105060736.A3D968254A0@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <7348a9e80511050017q66232caai7c77056a59672aab@mail.gmail.com>

Here is a quick 1 minute hack - please no chastizing me on the "repeat while
the mouse is down" stuff. You can obviously turn this into a fancy self
contained function with params stuff..
  -- button script
 on mousedown
 put the loc of grc "Circle" into circleLoc
put (the width of grc "Circle")/2 into tLength
repeat while the mouse is down
 put the mouseloc into mLoc
put findLength(circleLoc, mLoc) into tDistance
if tDistance < tLength then
set the loc of me to mLoc
else
set the loc of me to findSegmentPoint (mLoc, circleLoc, tLength)
end if
end repeat
end mousedown


function findLength p1,p2
return round(sqrt((item 1 of p2 - item 1 of p1) ^ 2 + (item 2 of p2 - item 2
of p1) ^ 2))
end findLength


function findSegmentPoint pointA, pointB, tLength
put -tLength/findLength (pointA,pointB) into tRatio
return round(item 1 of pointB - tRatio * (item 1 of pointA - item 1 of
pointB)) & comma & round(item 2 of pointB - tRatio * (item 2 of pointA -
item 2 of pointB))
end findSegmentPoint


On 11/4/05, MisterX <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:
> I haven't worked all the geometry functions available yet ;)
> don't know the arcade engine
>
> but here's a good source:
>
> http://www.2dcurves.com/conicsection/conicsectionc.html
>
> that's the place for curves ;)
>
> other wise wolfram's reference is absolutely great.
>
> but coming to thing of it, my pie control must do something like
> that...
>
> http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=162
>
> there's a setting button to offset the fields in and out of the
> center of the pie chart. That's the one you are looking for...
>
> the pseudo script would say
>
> r = radius of circle
> xy = center of circle or arc
> xyR[1..4] are the polygon's rects,
>
> for each item I in xyR
> if distance xy -> I > r
> you're out of the circle...
>
> cheers
> Xavier
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
> > Scott Rossi
> > Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 7:13 AM
> > To: How to use Revolution
> > Subject: Constrain Within Circle?
> >
> > Anyone have a formula to constrain object dragging within a
> > circular region?
> >
> > I'm guessing something like Arcade Engine has this in it, but
> > I really only need this one function.
> >
> > Thanks & Regards,
> >
> > Scott Rossi
> > Creative Director
> > Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> > -----
> > E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> > W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
> > your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From revolution at derbrill.de  Sat Nov  5 03:44:17 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 09:44:17 +0100
Subject: Constrain Within Circle?
In-Reply-To: <20051105015201.21EDE825478@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <5A01573C-4DD8-11DA-93BA-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Hi Scott,

I?m not sharing too much of a secret here, so hereWeGo . :-)
(The param checking might be unneccesary for you. I just copied and 
pasted from ArcadeEngine)

Hope that helps,

Malte

on mouseUp
   set the uAllowDrag of me to false
end mouseUp

on mouseRelease
   mouseUp
end mouseRelease

on mouseDown
   set the uAllowDrag of me to true
end mouseDown

on mouseMove
   if not the uAllowDrag of me then exit mouseMove
   put 100 into x
   --xlocation of circlecenter
   put 100 into y
   --ylocation of circlecenter
   put 80 into myRadius
   --radius of the circle
   set the loc of the target to pointOnCircle(x,y,findangle(x,y, the 
mouseLoc)-90,myRadius)
end mouseMove


Function findAngle
   repeat with i=1 to paramcount()
     if i<paramcount() then
       put param(i)&"," after theValue
     else
       put param(i) after theValue
     end if
   end repeat

   repeat with i=1 to the number of items of theValue
     if item i of theValue is not a number then
       return "Error: All Parameters must be numbers!"
       exit findAngle
       exit repeat
     end if
   end repeat
   put item 1 of theValue into x1
   put item 2 of theValue into y1
   put item 3 of theValue into x2
   put item 4 of theValue into y2
   put abs(x1-x2) into oppositeLeg
   put abs(y1-y2) into adjacentLeg
   if adjacentLeg<>0 then
     put atan(oppositeleg/adjacentLeg) into alpha
     put alpha*180/pi into alpha
   else
     put 90 into alpha
   end if
   switch
   case x1<=x2 and y1>=y2
     put alpha into foundAngle
     break
   case x1<=x2 and y1<=y2
     put 180-alpha into foundAngle
     break
   case x1>=x2 and y1<=y2
     put 180+alpha into foundAngle
     break
   case x1>=x2 and y1>=y2
     put 360-alpha into foundAngle
     break
   end switch
   return round(foundangle)
end findAngle

function pointOnCircle

   repeat with i=1 to paramcount()
     if i<paramcount() then
       put param(i)&"," after theValue
     else
       put param(i) after theValue
     end if
   end repeat

   repeat with i=1 to the number of items of theValue
     if item i of theValue is not a number then
       return "Error: All Parameters must be numbers!"
       exit pointOnCircle
       exit repeat
     end if
   end repeat

   put item 1 of theValue into centerX
   put item 2 of theValue into centerY
   put item 3 of theValue into isAngle
   put item 4 of theValue into isRadius
   put centerX+cos(isAngle*pi/180)*isRadius into isNewX
   put centerY+sin(isAngle*pi/180)*isRadius into isNewY
   return round(isNewX),round(isNewY)

end pointOnCircle

----
ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes
http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine
http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum 

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Nov  5 04:17:15 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 03:17:15 -0600
Subject: Application in foreground
In-Reply-To: <20051105061945.139AF8254AC@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BF91D4BB.2F398%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/5/05 12:55 AM, "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:

> Ken
> 
> great vbs line. Can I add it as a contribution (fully credited by you) to
> TAOO?

Sure, no problem, Xavier...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Nov  5 04:19:29 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 03:19:29 -0600
Subject: Repeat for each
In-Reply-To: <6F06FA27-CF01-4D6A-89E1-95552CE5BC5E@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <BF91D541.2F399%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/4/05 7:40 PM, "Geoff Canyon" <gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com> wrote:

> On Nov 4, 2005, at 2:23 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:
> 
>>   filter theData with "*word*"
> 
> You could probably get just the lines with "word" in the second item
> by doing something like this:
> 
> filter theData with "*" & tab & "*word*" & tab & "*" & \
>      tab & "*" & tab & "*" & tab & "*" & tab & "*" & tab & "*"

Actually, you only need to add "*" right after the thing you're checking,
and shouldn't need any more "*"s, so this should work just as well:

  filter theData with "*" & tab & "*word*" & tab & "*"

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Nov  5 04:52:26 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 10:52:26 +0100
Subject: Application in foreground
In-Reply-To: <BF91D4BB.2F398%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <20051105091652.AD0AE8254C7@mail.runrev.com>


Let me add some copyright notices to the vbs stack's about and I'll release
it
shortly... ;)

The previous trim() thread mimiquing the trim functions in vbs were great.
The vbs language library in TAOO contains 

- a compatibility layer of the basic vbs functions (reduces vbs code porting
effort)*
- a set of xos commands linked to a verb-object list of vbs scripts ready to
be executed 
on your local machine (remote execution is also in the works). It's in the
usual taoo 
ebook format. 

* alas not finished and trim wasn't done yet at the time of the trim
thread... ;)

So in the case of your script, I can do two things for taoo (and its users
or the
users of the vbs lib as a standalone) with your example:

1 - provide an activateApplication handler and similes (goapp, openapp,
switchtoapp)
2 - provide a code logic object that can be inserted dynamically for dynamic
vbs (meta)
code generation. This is when you tell taoo to do vbs codes using taoo
commands - there's
a translation layer planned for more complex interactions between systems
than meets the
eye in "dynamic scripting"...

it may sound complicated but it's not. you use this vbs lib and Rev inherits
vbs commands
and vbs execution. 

Similar layers exist for c ansi functions (fopen, fwrite, getc, etc), java,
flash, etc... 
but their applications are lower level. In this case we touch the higher
user levels and 
this is where taoo's big under-framework of libraries shines! Im in rev
(when taoo is active), 
I can say 

  goapp "notepad" -- thanks to you, Ken!

what I could really use is a "real speech to text to rev interpreter!" Then
I could start
showing some real applications of this... Your example is like those good
old Speech applets
I used to put into the apple menu speech recognition list... 

sorry for going overboard, im deep into taoo and already made 150 changes
today to it!

Not one Rev crash or problem to mention!!! 2.6.1 is great!!! 

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ray
> Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:17 AM
> To: Use Revolution List
> Subject: Re: Application in foreground
> 
> On 11/5/05 12:55 AM, "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:
> 
> > Ken
> > 
> > great vbs line. Can I add it as a contribution (fully 
> credited by you) 
> > to TAOO?
> 
> Sure, no problem, Xavier...
> 
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Sat Nov  5 05:13:08 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 11:13:08 +0100
Subject: Tabbeb Panel Behaviour
In-Reply-To: <200511050452.jA54qhOF026424@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au>
References: <200511050452.jA54qhOF026424@mail23.syd.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <FD6E828F-657B-4B55-B38B-A720E7F3D523@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi John,

I work mainly on Mac OS where this can't be an issue but you could  
try to lock messages to avoid this on Windows (not tested).

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

PS. BTW multiple tab panels a la MS Word are not always a good  
solution from an ergonomic point of view ;-)

Le 5 nov. 05 ? 05:52, John Tregea a ?crit :

> I have a card that has three tab panels on it. If I click on say  
> tab 2 of
> panel 1 it behaves as I would expect. That is the tab comes forward  
> and the
> orange highlight strip shows on the top of that tab.
>
> The weird bit is that the corresponding tab on every other panel on  
> the card
> also gets the orange strip. (in this case the second tab). Only the  
> tab I
> click on comes to the front but the others highlight. I am guessing  
> it has
> to do with message passing and an instruction targeting any object  
> of that
> type on the card but I can't see anything obvious happening in the  
> message
> watcher.
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Oh, each tab panel is grouped with sub groups that are each named to
> correspond with the tab name on the panel. None of the names are  
> the same
> across the groups, tabs or sub groups.

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From plsntbreez at mac.com  Sat Nov  5 06:47:34 2005
From: plsntbreez at mac.com (Brian Maher)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 06:47:34 -0500
Subject: alwaysBuffer property on OS X?
In-Reply-To: <436BC80C.4070108@chipp.com>
References: <EBC13A25-8268-464D-BAD4-39EC9444B339@mac.com>
	<f99b52860511031615u19fa2f36ge20319362699baa8@mail.gmail.com>
	<436AED27.1080403@chipp.com>
	<302690779.20051104090318@ahsoftware.net>
	<436BC80C.4070108@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <016C8F5F-F81A-40BF-9240-ED349F402514@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

I have noticed what when creating a new stack, the "Buffer Display"  
option on the "Basic Properties" section of the Property Inspector is  
turned on by default.  Since OS X double buffers by default does  
having this option turned on mean the stack is double double buffering?

Brian


From alex at tweedly.net  Sat Nov  5 07:18:05 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 12:18:05 +0000
Subject: Constrain Within Circle?
In-Reply-To: <BF918D58.24549%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF918D58.24549%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <436CA2FD.9050803@tweedly.net>

Scott Rossi wrote:

>Anyone have a formula to constrain object dragging within a circular region?
>
>  
>
There are 3 (or more) versions of "constrain object dragging within a 
circular region".

1. constrain the mouse location to be within the circle 
     (easy - use this if you can)
2. constrain the object to be within the circle
    (hard - especially for ellipses, polygons, etc.)
3. constrain the bounding rect of the object to be within the circle
    (fairly easy - calculate the offsets of the four corners from the 
mouseloc, and then its only two or four checks per mouse move, though 
the math to calculate the correct position to bring the bounding rect 
just within the circle is a bit more complex).

Assuming you can get away with version 1, then TJ or Malte has given you 
a good answer (though I think Malte's constrained to *on* the circle 
perimeter rather than within it :-)

If you need 2, you're on your own :-)

If you need 3, I have code to do that I can dig out (and translate into 
xtalk) and send - just let me know.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/161 - Release Date: 03/11/2005



From revolution at derbrill.de  Sat Nov  5 07:30:47 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 13:30:47 +0100
Subject: Constrain Within Circle?
In-Reply-To: <20051105084752.4C28A8254D4@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <FE3660CE-4DF7-11DA-93BA-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Alex wrote:

>  (though I think Malte's constrained to *on* the circle
> perimeter rather than within it :-)

Yes. That?s true. :-D



From marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu  Sat Nov  5 07:30:12 2005
From: marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu (Marty Billingsley)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 06:30:12 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Slightly OT again] Gaming
In-Reply-To: <20051105015200.CBC178253E6@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051105015200.CBC178253E6@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0511050623510.23883@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>

Judy Perry <jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu> writes:
>
> And, when I recently mentioned it to Chris Crawford of 'The Art of
> Computer Game Design,' he said that he only wished that he'd heard of Rev
> before wading neck-deep into Java.

And now I'm going to segue into another slightly OT subject: gaming.
We're thinking of offering a gaming course at the high school level,
aiming at the post-AP crowd (hoping, of course, that this will
attract more students *into* the AP course).

I need resources on gaming and game design, preferable from an
algorithmic standpoint.  "The Art of Computer Game Design" was a
great tip.  Anyone got any others?

Of course, I have no idea if we'd teach this course in java, in
scheme, in RR, some other environment, or a mixture of the above.
Suggestions?

Thanks!

  - marty


--
Marty Billingsley (marty at ucls.uchicago.edu)
The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools


From marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu  Sat Nov  5 07:39:20 2005
From: marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu (Marty Billingsley)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 06:39:20 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Slightly OT?] Why It's Hard to Explain Rev
In-Reply-To: <20051105015200.CBC178253E6@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051105015200.CBC178253E6@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0511050630160.23883@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>

> Dan Shafer wrote:
>
> > Tough one, Marty, because there are so many free languages out there
> > that educational administrators' first knee-jerk reaction (as Andre
> > says in his reply) is to look to cost. But if you can get them past
> > that point then I imagine Judy Perry will have some compelling
> > educational arguments to bolster such a position.
>
Judy Perry <jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu> wrote:
>
> I dunno... maybe I'm at the wrong educational institution, because I can
> tell you that where I am, admin-types would vastly prefer to pay
> bucketloads of dollars for something that "everybody" uses and "everybody"
> has heard of as opposed to a validly competitive free product.

Cost isn't really the issue.  BlueJ is free, after all.

It's more like, "why not teach c++, java, or some other "sexy"
language that's actually used in the marketplace.  I used to
get the same thing with Pascal in my high school classes, but at
least I could counter at the time that Pascal was used in the
AP exam and some companies (like HP) used it a lot at the time.
Now I'm struggling with "why teach intro programming in Scheme?"

In my 8th grade class, which used RR, it's always been a battle,
ever since I began the curriculum using HyperCard.  Nobody had
heard of HyperCard.  Luckily, we're not a "subject area" class,
so the administration doesn't really pay attention to what's
being taught and I can do my own thing.

I just like to have the arguuments lined up for when the question,
"why use RR to teach programming?" does arise.

Thanks for the support this list has given me!

  - marty

--
Marty Billingsley (marty at ucls.uchicago.edu)
The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools


From revolution at derbrill.de  Sat Nov  5 07:51:00 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 13:51:00 +0100
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 26, Issue 19
In-Reply-To: <20051105015201.21EDE825478@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <D0C98FAE-4DFA-11DA-93BA-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

This will allow to move anywhere inside the circle, but still only 
constrains the loc of the object.
Also cleared up the circleCenter and radius handling a bit.

Cheers,

Malte


global x,y,myRadius

on mouseUp
   set the uAllowDrag of me to false
end mouseUp

on mouseRelease
   mouseUp
end mouseRelease

on mouseDown
   put 100 into x
   --xlocation of circleCenter
   put 100 into y
   --yLocation of circleCenter
   put 80 into myRadius
   --radius of the circle
   set the uAllowDrag of me to true
end mouseDown

on mouseMove
   if not the uAllowDrag of me then exit mouseMove
   if distance(x,y,the mouseLoc)>80 then
     set the loc of me to \
     pointOnCircle(x,y,findangle(x,y,the mouseLoc) - 90,myRadius)
   else
     set the loc of me to the mouseloc
   end if
end mouseMove

function distance
   repeat with i=1 to paramcount()
     if i<paramcount() then
       put param(i)&"," after theValue
     else
       put param(i) after theValue
     end if
   end repeat
   repeat with i=1 to the number of items of theValue
     if item i of theValue is not a number then
       return "Error: All Parameters must be numbers!"
       exit distance
       exit repeat
     end if
   end repeat
   put item 1 of theValue into x1
   put item 2 of theValue into y1
   put item 3 of theValue into x2
   put item 4 of theValue into y2
   if y2 is empty then
     return "Error: Syntax is distance(x1,y1,x2,y2)"&cr&theValue
   end if
   put x1-x2 into oppositeLeg
   put y1-y2 into adjacentLeg
   put round(sqrt (oppositeLeg^2+adjacentLeg^2)) into hypotenuse
   return hypotenuse
end distance

function findAngle
   repeat with i=1 to paramcount()
     if i<paramcount() then
       put param(i)&"," after theValue
     else
       put param(i) after theValue
     end if
   end repeat
   repeat with i=1 to the number of items of theValue
     if item i of theValue is not a number then
       return "Error: All Parameters must be numbers!"
       exit findAngle
       exit repeat
     end if
   end repeat
   put item 1 of theValue into x1
   put item 2 of theValue into y1
   put item 3 of theValue into x2
   put item 4 of theValue into y2
   put abs(x1-x2) into oppositeLeg
   put abs(y1-y2) into adjacentLeg
   if adjacentLeg<>0 then
     put atan(oppositeleg/adjacentLeg) into alpha
     put alpha*180/pi into alpha
   else
     put 90 into alpha
   end if
   switch
   case x1<=x2 and y1>=y2
     put alpha into foundAngle
     break
   case x1<=x2 and y1<=y2
     put 180-alpha into foundAngle
     break
   case x1>=x2 and y1<=y2
     put 180+alpha into foundAngle
     break
   case x1>=x2 and y1>=y2
     put 360-alpha into foundAngle
     break
   end switch
   return round(foundangle)
end findAngle

function pointOnCircle
   repeat with i=1 to paramcount()
     if i<paramcount() then
       put param(i)&"," after theValue
     else
       put param(i) after theValue
     end if
   end repeat
   repeat with i=1 to the number of items of theValue
     if item i of theValue is not a number then
       return "Error: All Parameters must be numbers!"
       exit pointOnCircle
       exit repeat
     end if
   end repeat
   put item 1 of theValue into centerX
   put item 2 of theValue into centerY
   put item 3 of theValue into isAngle
   put item 4 of theValue into isRadius
   put centerX+cos(isAngle*pi/180)*isRadius into isNewX
   put centerY+sin(isAngle*pi/180)*isRadius into isNewY
   return round(isNewX),round(isNewY)
end pointOnCircle


From revolution at derbrill.de  Sat Nov  5 07:52:24 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 13:52:24 +0100
Subject: Constrain Within Circle?
In-Reply-To: <20051105015201.21EDE825478@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <030957F2-4DFB-11DA-93BA-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Excuses for the wrong header in previous post.

http://mail.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2005-November/ 
069538.html

Cheers,

Malte



From revolution at derbrill.de  Sat Nov  5 07:54:56 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 13:54:56 +0100
Subject: [Slightly OT again] Gaming
In-Reply-To: <20051105015201.21EDE825478@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <5D97387C-4DFB-11DA-93BA-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Hi Marty,

> I need resources on gaming and game design, preferable from an
> algorithmic standpoint.  "The Art of Computer Game Design" was a
> great tip.  Anyone got any others?

I can highly recommend the game programming gems and graphic gems 
series.

All the best,

Malte

---
ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes
http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine
http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum 



From jhurley at infostations.com  Sat Nov  5 08:59:43 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 05:59:43 -0800
Subject: Constrain Within Circle?
In-Reply-To: <20051105084752.06F178254D3@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051105084752.06F178254D3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230912bf926a1bc251@[69.85.158.116]>

>
>Message: 11
>Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 22:12:40 -0800
>From: Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com>
>Subject: Constrain Within Circle?
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Message-ID: <BF918D58.24549%scott at tactilemedia.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>Anyone have a formula to constrain object dragging within a circular region?
>
>I'm guessing something like Arcade Engine has this in it, but I really only
>need this one function.
>
>Thanks & Regards,
>
>Scott Rossi


Scott,

The following script should keep the contol it is in to the inside of 
a circle of radius r. The variable rr is the distance from the mouse 
to the center of the circle at x0,y0. It uses a simple 
proportionality in similar triangles.

local myName,x0,y0,r

on mouseDown
   put the name of me into myName
   put round((the width of this card)/2)  into x0
   put round((the height of this card)/2) into y0
   put 200 into r
end mouseDown

on mouseUP
   put  "" into myName
end mouseUP

on mouseLeave
   mouseUP
end mouseLeave


on mouseMove u,v
   if myName is "" then exit mouseMove
   put sqrt((u-x0)^2 + (v-y0)^2) into rr
   if   rr >r then
     set the loc of me to x0+(u-x0)*r/rr, y0+(v-y0)*r/rr
   else  set the loc of me to u,v
end mouseMove

Jim





From david at openpartnership.net  Sat Nov  5 10:27:40 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 16:27:40 +0100
Subject: Access Address Book or iCal
In-Reply-To: <7F28C292-24CB-4984-A363-EE15AAA65AEB@mac.com>
References: <BF9108E6.3048%paulclaude@postino.it>
	<p06230925bf91354bd334@[192.168.1.104]>
	<55AD96BF-5DE0-4BDA-8DDD-250205ECA386@openpartnership.net>
	<7F28C292-24CB-4984-A363-EE15AAA65AEB@mac.com>
Message-ID: <0D11D786-C4FD-4C1E-B71F-9E7AD70F17EF@openpartnership.net>

Mainly working on the interface at the moment to make it flexible to  
extend - hence the Geometry questions :)

On 4 Nov 2005, at 18:48, Andre Garzia wrote:

> David,
>
> I also did some vObject library, if you want I can send to  
> you... :D (the library needs more error checking)

Would be great - the scripts I have for vCal, vCard are no way  
complete, aim to move onto that after Wednesday. Would be great to  
merge the two libraries - but see note below.

On 4 Nov 2005, at 18:32, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> David Bovill wrote:
>
>> I am working on both cVard, vCal and Apple  Address Book  
>> integration over the last week - should be finished the  first  
>> beta on Wednesday - any testers?
>>
>
> Wanna sell that library?  That'd be quite a time-saver.

Not aiming to do this as a money earner - but do aim to release it in  
a way which demonstrates how members of this community could work  
together on products which are to be released open source but which  
in they can also be paid to develop.

So the Address Book will be released free for anyone to use on a non- 
commercial basis, while anyone using it for their company business or  
bundling it into commercial products will be required to pay a small  
fee.

The product will have a fixed bounty roughly equivalent to the  
commercial cost of development. Once this bounty has been paid up, or  
at which ever point all the contributors agree, the code and  
interfaces will be released under an open source license - frankly i  
don't care which.

Any developers contributing to the libraries or application design  
will be issued digital shares in the product - entitling them to a  
share in all revenues (if there are any from the product).

Current Functionality

     1) Customisable interface based on your own workflow

     2) Reads and writes from Apple Address Book

     3) Reads and writes to text files (XML or vCard)

     4) You can extend the fields and data to be stored - dumped at  
the end of the notes field f using Apple Address Book.

     3) Reads and writes to your own or a shared LDAP database (via  
web services)

Planned functionality

     1) Use your own database

     2) Searchable skills database for Rev developers



From david at openpartnership.net  Sat Nov  5 10:36:51 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 16:36:51 +0100
Subject: Virtual custom property question
In-Reply-To: <0D11D786-C4FD-4C1E-B71F-9E7AD70F17EF@openpartnership.net>
References: <BF9108E6.3048%paulclaude@postino.it>
	<p06230925bf91354bd334@[192.168.1.104]>
	<55AD96BF-5DE0-4BDA-8DDD-250205ECA386@openpartnership.net>
	<7F28C292-24CB-4984-A363-EE15AAA65AEB@mac.com>
	<0D11D786-C4FD-4C1E-B71F-9E7AD70F17EF@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <9A6B9ACC-BE65-4453-83BB-F5C36A2F936B@openpartnership.net>

If I set the custom property of a control from somewhere else - lets  
say:

     set the display_Colour of group 1 to "red"

And this group has defined an appropriate setprop handler - say:

     setprop display_Colour someColour
         set the bgColor of btn 1 of me to someColour
     end display_Colour

Is there a way to find out which control is trying to set the custom  
property?


From joel.guillod at net2000.ch  Sat Nov  5 10:42:44 2005
From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Joel Guillod)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 16:42:44 +0100
Subject: Constrain Within Circle?
In-Reply-To: <20051105084752.4C28A8254D4@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051105084752.4C28A8254D4@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <9CCB35DA-8238-4591-8547-4666DD7E8C3E@net2000.ch>

Should the ArcadeEngine be optimized for speed from ...


> Function findAngle
>    ...
>
>    put abs(x1-x2) into oppositeLeg
>    put abs(y1-y2) into adjacentLeg
>    if adjacentLeg<>0 then
>      put atan(oppositeleg/adjacentLeg) into alpha
>      put alpha*180/pi into alpha
>    else
>      put 90 into alpha
>    end if
>    switch
>    case x1<=x2 and y1>=y2
>      put alpha into foundAngle
>      break
>    case x1<=x2 and y1<=y2
>      put 180-alpha into foundAngle
>      break
>    case x1>=x2 and y1<=y2
>      put 180+alpha into foundAngle
>      break
>    case x1>=x2 and y1>=y2
>      put 360-alpha into foundAngle
>      break
>    end switch
>    return round(foundangle)
> end findAngle
>


...to :

Function geometry_findAngle
   ...
   put x1-x2 into oppositeLeg
   put y1-y2 into adjacentLeg
   return atan2(adjacentLeg,oppositeleg)*180/pi+90 -- +90 should be  
+180 in standard geometry
end geometry_findAngle

?

Well, this is just a suggestion. For speed and time sparing  
Revolution is so fast that my solution would probably spare only a  
fraction of millisec but may be my suggestion could help in code  
simplicity (3 lines against 23) and therefore maintenance and bytes  
size, isn't it?





From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Sat Nov  5 10:43:59 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 16:43:59 +0100
Subject: Virtual custom property question
In-Reply-To: <9A6B9ACC-BE65-4453-83BB-F5C36A2F936B@openpartnership.net>
References: <BF9108E6.3048%paulclaude@postino.it>
	<p06230925bf91354bd334@[192.168.1.104]>
	<55AD96BF-5DE0-4BDA-8DDD-250205ECA386@openpartnership.net>
	<7F28C292-24CB-4984-A363-EE15AAA65AEB@mac.com>
	<0D11D786-C4FD-4C1E-B71F-9E7AD70F17EF@openpartnership.net>
	<9A6B9ACC-BE65-4453-83BB-F5C36A2F936B@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <7500F464-E25C-44D3-A057-A75E68F29B5A@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi David,

You could use the mouseControl (see in the docs) but I'm not sure it  
would be really safe in all cases. Depends of your layout.
So, you could implement a stack custom property to retrieve the last  
clicked control: would be safer :-)
Hope this helps.

Le 5 nov. 05 ? 16:36, David Bovill a ?crit :

> If I set the custom property of a control from somewhere else -  
> lets say:
>     set the display_Colour of group 1 to "red"
> And this group has defined an appropriate setprop handler - say:
>     setprop display_Colour someColour
>         set the bgColor of btn 1 of me to someColour
>     end display_Colour
> Is there a way to find out which control is trying to set the  
> custom property?

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From david at openpartnership.net  Sat Nov  5 10:51:18 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 16:51:18 +0100
Subject: Virtual custom property question
In-Reply-To: <7500F464-E25C-44D3-A057-A75E68F29B5A@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <BF9108E6.3048%paulclaude@postino.it>
	<p06230925bf91354bd334@[192.168.1.104]>
	<55AD96BF-5DE0-4BDA-8DDD-250205ECA386@openpartnership.net>
	<7F28C292-24CB-4984-A363-EE15AAA65AEB@mac.com>
	<0D11D786-C4FD-4C1E-B71F-9E7AD70F17EF@openpartnership.net>
	<9A6B9ACC-BE65-4453-83BB-F5C36A2F936B@openpartnership.net>
	<7500F464-E25C-44D3-A057-A75E68F29B5A@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <C114E926-C011-47EB-AB7D-AE9EEFBEB1A5@openpartnership.net>


On 5 Nov 2005, at 16:43, Eric Chatonet wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> You could use the mouseControl (see in the docs) but I'm not sure  
> it would be really safe in all cases. Depends of your layout.
> So, you could implement a stack custom property to retrieve the  
> last clicked control: would be safer :-)
> Hope this helps.

Thanks but it could be called from anywhere - from a handler in a  
library for instance - actually the problem I am trying to solve is  
to avoid recursion in geometry management - a group sets a custom  
property "group_Rect" of any groups within itself. That way you can  
replace groups with other groups and the geometry keeps working - but  
if you forget to define a setprop handler for a group you get  
unpleasant recursion - which at the moment I have to check by  
checking the script of the group first.


From revolution at derbrill.de  Sat Nov  5 12:56:12 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 18:56:12 +0100
Subject: Constrain Within Circle?
In-Reply-To: <20051105084752.4C28A8254D4@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <73A3BEEF-4E25-11DA-93BA-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Hi Joel,

 >Should the ArcadeEngine be optimized for speed from ...

It is. In my test using atan instead of atan2 was a few milliseconds 
faster. Not too many though. in 350 loops and 50 test runs the atan 
version was about 70 millisecs faster on a G4 - 400 MHz than the atan2 
version. That?s why I chose the longer form. But this is so close that 
there might be factors that give a faulty result (are there any other 
apps open using cycles etc...)

All the best,

Malte



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Sat Nov  5 13:09:35 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 10:09:35 -0800
Subject: Repeat for each
In-Reply-To: <BF91D541.2F399%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF91D541.2F399%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <688C6C34-EA16-483C-85E1-4C1093DB8B2A@inspiredlogic.com>


On Nov 5, 2005, at 1:19 AM, Ken Ray wrote:

> On 11/4/05 7:40 PM, "Geoff Canyon" <gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com> wrote:
>
>> On Nov 4, 2005, at 2:23 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:
>>
>>>   filter theData with "*word*"
>>
>> You could probably get just the lines with "word" in the second item
>> by doing something like this:
>>
>> filter theData with "*" & tab & "*word*" & tab & "*" & \
>>      tab & "*" & tab & "*" & tab & "*" & tab & "*" & tab & "*"
>
> Actually, you only need to add "*" right after the thing you're  
> checking,
> and shouldn't need any more "*"s, so this should work just as well:
>
>   filter theData with "*" & tab & "*word*" & tab & "*"

That filter would match any line where "word" was in any item from  
2-7 of 8. To nail it down to the second item the filter string has to  
include the tabs for all the items.

But since "repeat for each" is faster, the point is moot.

Except for the fact that filter should probably be bugzilla'd for  
being slow. Can anyone come up with an example where filter beats  
"repeat for each?"


From irog at mac.com  Sat Nov  5 14:10:57 2005
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 11:10:57 -0800
Subject: Constrain Within Circle?
In-Reply-To: <20051105180004.7B62F82548A@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051105180004.7B62F82548A@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <DEDD3795-67BB-48E3-BAB4-32E5F02535C4@mac.com>

Cool, Jim.  And, if you change just one line of your code in the  
mouseMove handler to

                                                                         
               "if   rr is not r then"

you get an object that is constrained to move on the circle of radius  
rr.  This is useful if you want to build a rotary knob for example.



Cheers, Roger


On Nov 5, 2005, at 10:00 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com  
wrote:

> The following script should keep the contol it is in to the inside of
> a circle of radius r. The variable rr is the distance from the mouse
> to the center of the circle at x0,y0. It uses a simple
> proportionality in similar triangles.
>
> local myName,x0,y0,r
>
> on mouseDown
>    put the name of me into myName
>    put round((the width of this card)/2)  into x0
>    put round((the height of this card)/2) into y0
>    put 200 into r
> end mouseDown
>
> on mouseUP
>    put  "" into myName
> end mouseUP
>
> on mouseLeave
>    mouseUP
> end mouseLeave
>
>
> on mouseMove u,v
>    if myName is "" then exit mouseMove
>    put sqrt((u-x0)^2 + (v-y0)^2) into rr
>    if   rr >r then
>      set the loc of me to x0+(u-x0)*r/rr, y0+(v-y0)*r/rr
>    else  set the loc of me to u,v
> end mouseMove
>
> Jim
>



From jeff at siphonophore.com  Sat Nov  5 14:24:31 2005
From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeffrey Reynolds)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 14:24:31 -0500
Subject: OT Auto run CDs on the PC
In-Reply-To: <20051026133640.0B848825268@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051026133640.0B848825268@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <c9df4e62a9e186739f022a7eecacfc57@siphonophore.com>

Hi,

Just wondering if folks had an opinion about auto running multimedia 
applications on CD-ROMS on windows. It was the rage in the hay days of 
CD-ROMs, but then seemed to peter out. We still get feedback from PC 
users that they cant figure out how to find the cd and the application 
on a cd when inserted on a windows machine. in the past we have done 
printed blow-in instructions with the cd on how to go to my computer to 
pull up the cd.

The auto run is obnoxious in my opinion. the popup window on xp allows 
you to open the cd in windows explorer, but its a confusing list for 
the non computer savvy. the other rub is there are other files like the 
read me and lesson plans on the cdrom that the user might want to get 
at and with auto run they have to quit the app to do that.

I guess i could have the app startup with autorun with a dialog with a 
selection of running the app or view the other files on the cd

Is there an easy way to open a folder in windows explorer?

This is a little kids cdrom application that goes with a story book.

cheers,

Jeffrey Reynolds



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sat Nov  5 14:37:07 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 11:37:07 -0800
Subject: Thanks & Demo Post
Message-ID: <BF9249E3.245F4%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Thanks to everyone who posted suggestions for constraining a drag within a
circular region.  Folks here are always so helpful. :-)

So much so that it encouraged me to do a little updating.  I modified the
"drag sample" demo stack which shows several object dragging scripts to
include a modified script of the above.  Execute the following in your
message box:

 go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev"

And choose the "Drag Sample" link.

Again, thanks very much for all the helpful responses.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sat Nov  5 14:42:54 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 14:42:54 -0500
Subject: My Prototype update!
Message-ID: <CB75916C-127B-4DF8-9163-0D5D9DBEA518@adelphia.net>

Hello to everyone,

It has been awhile since I was able to let you all know my progress  
using Revolution as a RAD Tool (Rapid Application Development Tool)  
for a Cell Phone/PDA project.

Recap:
We had a Macromedia Director 'expert' do a prototype for us a year or  
two ago. It is a GUI for small screen handheld devices and smart  
phones. Anyway the further along we got in the project it seemed our  
MM Director guy was having difficulty getting us what we needed. It  
was either too difficult to do or was too difficult to comprehend and  
we needed to continually re-explain what we wanted. Whatever happened  
to 'trying' to figure out what the client wants rather than trying to  
explain how it can't be done that way? Anyway, We had a series of  
games that needed to be done to show our interface in a gaming  
scenario. After being told how difficult it would be a few times I  
decided to pull the plug on Director as a tool to get these  
prototypes done. I decided to tackle them in Revolution.

I was able to recreate the 'engine' to drive our system in just under  
a week (it took our MM Director guy several months) and was able to  
create (using that engine) eight games to demonstrate both the use of  
the engine and how our Interface works in a game environment in  
another week. Yep, that's right, in two weeks I was able to create a  
Database driven engine and a series of applications including an SMS  
application, an Application browser, a database editor, and eight  
different games. This really shows the power and usability of a  
product like Revolution especially compared to MM Director.

We have been using the prototype in Rev to demonstrate to prospective  
investors what our system is capable of doing and we have finally  
received a few hundred thousand dollars in funding and have acquired  
a couple of evangelists to our cause. We have developed an LLC and I  
am now part owner of the new company. We now are using the prototype  
to describe Use Case Scenarios in a visual form and to describe  
Demonstration Variances and our Scope of Work documents. We are  
working on a contract with some offshore developers to put our system  
on a series of smart phones. The prototype is being used to describe  
the Engineering Specifications for them.

I have been spending the last week and next week going over these  
documents and plan on having an Engineering Deliverable Milestones  
schedule and contract for this project. I have been asked to be in  
charge of the testing phase as well. We will be using an emulator for  
the phone environment we choose, to do this testing. We are planning  
a modular approach and hope to have an early release of a test  
application using our engine by March or April of 2006. We plan on  
using the test applications to demonstrate and sell our system to  
prospective phone/carrier/manufacturers.

Comments:
WoW, Revolution really made my job easier, It has been robust and  
simple and has out shined Director for this project. We can really  
use Revolution to further help us in this process of developing a  
working product on a phone/pda. However, It would have been 'REALLY'  
nice to be able to port the Rev project directly over to a windows CE  
smart phone/PDA environment. It would save us around fifty thousand  
dollars in development too. Actually if I could do that, there is a  
lucrative opportunity for me to produce games and applications for  
this company to use with their engine and provide a bit of money for  
me. I think Revolution re-writes the book on RAD Rapid Application  
Development and most of the technical people involved (Except the  
Director 'Guru") have been really impressed with Revolution  
especially our off-shore developers from India.

Complaints:
Unicode, Unicode, Unicode. ( which I was able to use the OS to paste  
into my Database but not use Rev's filtering commands and therefor  
made the Unicode not do able) And it was too late to include the web  
browser since I did not have altBrowser when I first started and  
there was a bug that I could not figure out in Panther so I skipped  
the browser in the end. (It would have and may yet be a very cool use  
of altBrowser if I can find the time to see if the bug is fixed and  
learn how to implement it)

Lastly, I would not have been able to learn, understand and complete  
any of this without the unlimited and useful help from everyone on  
this list. I formerly thank each and every one of you. Especially I  
would like to thank Richard, Dan, Jacque, Sarah, Malte, Chipp, Mark,  
Alex, Geoff, Eric, Ken, Scott, and Xavier too! for all of the help  
you guys and gals gave me in getting up to speed on using Transcript.  
(I am sure I missed someone that helped me so I apologize now)


Thank you all,

Tom McGrath

Applications Development Director/Part Owner
SCIconics, LLC
1000 Killarney Drive
Castle Shannon, PA 15234

Owner
Lazy River Software
220 Drake Road
Bethel Park, PA 15102

Computer and Application Development Consultant
Semantic Compaction Systems
1000 Killarney Drive
Castle Shannon, PA 15234





From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Nov  5 15:16:19 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:16:19 -0800
Subject: My Prototype update!
In-Reply-To: <CB75916C-127B-4DF8-9163-0D5D9DBEA518@adelphia.net>
References: <CB75916C-127B-4DF8-9163-0D5D9DBEA518@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <7C5F6624-6E14-454E-91B0-2E43AB17D06F@danshafer.com>

Tom.....

Wow. What a great update and powerful case study for Revolution!  
Thanks for sharing that and for your enthusiasm.

I remember clearly the first time I saw you post on the list and how  
impressed I was by the quality of your questions almost from the  
outset. Your experience with developing prototype apps using Rev is  
one that I suspect a TON Of companies could benefit from even if they  
ended up having to rewrite in the end for a target platform not yet  
supported by Revolution.

Perhaps the day will come when you can even share the prototypes with  
us so we can learn from your exprience in the teeny-tiny world of  
cell/PDA window sizes!

Good luck in the future with these and similar projects.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From david at openpartnership.net  Sat Nov  5 15:24:52 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 21:24:52 +0100
Subject: My Prototype update!
In-Reply-To: <CB75916C-127B-4DF8-9163-0D5D9DBEA518@adelphia.net>
References: <CB75916C-127B-4DF8-9163-0D5D9DBEA518@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <3EE8EFB5-C192-46C4-8928-CB0C40EA2457@openpartnership.net>

Yes - great case study and congratulations!


On 5 Nov 2005, at 20:42, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Comments:
> WoW, Revolution really made my job easier, It has been robust and  
> simple and has out shined Director for this project. We can really  
> use Revolution to further help us in this process of developing a  
> working product on a phone/pda. However, It would have been  
> 'REALLY' nice to be able to port the Rev project directly over to a  
> windows CE smart phone/PDA environment. It would save us around  
> fifty thousand dollars in development too.

Sure you know a hell of a lot more about this than I do - would be  
great to get some info as TV and some simple interactive applications  
on mobiles is a big part of the future of the project we are working  
on here in Vienna.

When I took a brief look at this the road involving some scaled down  
version of SVG designed for mobiles plus Java / javascript seemed  
promising - there were some products in this area and it looked like  
it would not be hard to create them in Rev - that is design the  
interface in Rev - export the SVG and have Java / Javascript  
libraries that much the functionality of the objects in Rev?

How are you planning to do it???



From jhurley at infostations.com  Sat Nov  5 16:40:20 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 13:40:20 -0800
Subject: Constrain Within Circle?
In-Reply-To: <20051105180004.7B62F82548A@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051105180004.7B62F82548A@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230902bf92d61d193f@[69.19.167.166]>

Scott,

An afterthought. Here are a couple of examples of circular  objects 
confined  inside a circle and, a bit more involved, inside an ellipse.

In the message box.

go stack url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/ConfinedBalls.rev"

Jim


From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Sat Nov  5 16:41:48 2005
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 22:41:48 +0100
Subject: ANN: Another collection of Pattern Art uploaded
Message-ID: <436D271C.90703@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

I have just uploaded a second collection of images created with the 
"Color Pattern Toolkit" that shows the results of various approaches to 
produce color patterns. Scottish plaids this time are definitely in the 
minority.

Depending on my present tight schedule, which prevents me momentarily 
even  to participate in any list discussions, the Toolkit will 
eventually be released for public use this November.

Go to <http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia> and scroll down to "Pattern Art Two".

Best regards,

Wilhelm Sanke



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Nov  5 16:52:57 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 13:52:57 -0800
Subject: OT Auto run CDs on the PC
In-Reply-To: <c9df4e62a9e186739f022a7eecacfc57@siphonophore.com>
References: <20051026133640.0B848825268@mail.runrev.com>
	<c9df4e62a9e186739f022a7eecacfc57@siphonophore.com>
Message-ID: <436D29B9.6080501@fourthworld.com>

Jeffrey Reynolds wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Just wondering if folks had an opinion about auto running multimedia 
> applications on CD-ROMS on windows. It was the rage in the hay days of 
> CD-ROMs, but then seemed to peter out. We still get feedback from PC 
> users that they cant figure out how to find the cd and the application 
> on a cd when inserted on a windows machine. in the past we have done 
> printed blow-in instructions with the cd on how to go to my computer to 
> pull up the cd.
> 
> The auto run is obnoxious in my opinion. the popup window on xp allows 
> you to open the cd in windows explorer, but its a confusing list for the 
> non computer savvy. the other rub is there are other files like the read 
> me and lesson plans on the cdrom that the user might want to get at and 
> with auto run they have to quit the app to do that.

The auto-run feature in Windows represents a serious security hole, one 
that Mac OS closed after QT v2.0.

That said, it's become so prevalent that I find if I don't use it 
customers call our tech support wondering why nothing happens when they 
put the CD in.

With any Windows CD-ROM deliverable we make here, we have a simple menu 
application in the root directory that's auto-launched on startup, with 
buttons to display any Read Me or other files, and of course a button to 
install/run the main app.

Yes, it's silly and for end-users it's potentially dangerous. And yes, 
without it your customers will be confused and your tech support will go 
through the roof.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov  5 17:06:39 2005
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 14:06:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Implementing rsync protocol and algorithms with RR apps
Message-ID: <20051105220639.81398.qmail@web36509.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

Have anyone given a try to implement 
rsync protocols and algorithms using 
only RR clients applications?

<http://samba.anu.edu.au/rsync/>
<http://samba.anu.edu.au/rsync/tech_report/>
<http://olstrans.sourceforge.net/release/OLS2000-rsync/OLS2000-rsync.html>

rsync allows to download only the parts
that had changed in a stack, instead of
the whole file.

It's composed of a server and a client.

The client sends the server a single string
of information about the local file.

This string is a series of digests of 
chunks of 1k of the local file.

When server receives this string, it
compares these digest with chunks of 1k
of the file in the server and then just
send back the parts that the client needs
to recreate the file from the server, in
the client's side.

Notice, it would be a custom solution
using md5Digest, not md4Digest as rsync uses.

Thanks in advance!

al

Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Nov  5 17:18:02 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 16:18:02 -0600
Subject: Repeat for each
In-Reply-To: <688C6C34-EA16-483C-85E1-4C1093DB8B2A@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <BF928BBA.2F418%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/5/05 12:09 PM, "Geoff Canyon" <gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com> wrote:

>>> filter theData with "*" & tab & "*word*" & tab & "*" & \
>>>      tab & "*" & tab & "*" & tab & "*" & tab & "*" & tab & "*"
>> 
>> Actually, you only need to add "*" right after the thing you're
>> checking,
>> and shouldn't need any more "*"s, so this should work just as well:
>> 
>>   filter theData with "*" & tab & "*word*" & tab & "*"
> 
> That filter would match any line where "word" was in any item from
> 2-7 of 8. To nail it down to the second item the filter string has to
> include the tabs for all the items.

Good catch, Geoff - I stand corrected!

> Except for the fact that filter should probably be bugzilla'd for
> being slow. Can anyone come up with an example where filter beats
> "repeat for each?"

Not that I can think of...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Nov  5 17:23:20 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 14:23:20 -0800
Subject: Chris Crawford [was: Why It's Hard to Explain Rev]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511041958260.27569-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511041958260.27569-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <436D30D8.2050505@fourthworld.com>

Judy Perry wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Nov 2005, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
> 
>>I wonder if he'd be willing to open the source for Trust and Betrayal to
>>see if one of the energetic souls here would be willing to port it to
> 
> Rev.
> <snip>
> 
>>Judging from a quick look at his Erazmatron at
>><http://www.erasmatazz.com/Erasmatron4/Erasmatron4.html> it seems the
>>new program builds on some of the corre ideas in Trust and Betrayal.
>>Maybe letting someone port Trust and Betrayal would help move Erazmatron
>>forward at the same time....
> 
> 
> Well, my experience has been that he's reasonable amenable to reasonable
> requests.  Given what he told me, he might well welcome the chance to see
> what Rev could offer some of his stuff.
> 
> Why not ask him?  I really had the impression that he was not particularly
> fond of having to use Java to do cross-plat stuff.

I'll write him if we can find a volunteer here to do the port.  My 
clients would kill me if I took on another project before the end of the 
year, but if we can find someone with a little time and interest on 
their hands to make this happen I'll happily do what I can to put it 
into motion.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Nov  5 17:28:24 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 16:28:24 -0600
Subject: Virtual custom property question
In-Reply-To: <9A6B9ACC-BE65-4453-83BB-F5C36A2F936B@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <BF928E28.2F420%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/5/05 9:36 AM, "David Bovill" <david at openpartnership.net> wrote:

> If I set the custom property of a control from somewhere else - lets
> say:
> 
>      set the display_Colour of group 1 to "red"
> 
> And this group has defined an appropriate setprop handler - say:
> 
>      setprop display_Colour someColour
>          set the bgColor of btn 1 of me to someColour
>      end display_Colour
> 
> Is there a way to find out which control is trying to set the custom
> property?

Yes, you look at the 'executionContexts'... the last line will be the group
itself (i.e. the last object to act on the script), but the *second to last*
line will be the object that was trying to set the custom property.

Each line of the executionContexts is in this format:

   <long ID of the object>,<handler>,<script line>

So if I have a button (button ID 1002) on a card, with a script:

  on mouseUp
    set the test of this card to 100
  end mouseUp

and my card script reads:

  setProp test pVal
    put the executionContexts
  end test

here's what I get:

  button id 1002 of card id 1002 of stack "Untitled 1",mouseUp,2
  card id 1002 of stack "Untitled 1",test,2

So if you take item 1 of line -2 of the executionContexts, you get the long
id to the object that made the original propery setting.


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Nov  5 17:35:33 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 16:35:33 -0600
Subject: Fonts and Revolution
In-Reply-To: <20051104160704.3d90ddb1.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BF928FD5.2F423%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/4/05 6:07 PM, "Garrett R. Hylltun" <garretthylltun at gmail.com> wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> What's the deal on the fonts that we can use in our programs;
> 
>   are we limited to what's in the text formatting list?
>   can we add our own fonts?
>     - If yes, how and what font format?
>   antialias support?

Basically we are limited to whatever fonts are currently installed on the
machine that is running our programs, since Revolution does not (at this
time) support font embedding... this means that if you want to have a
specific font in use in your program, you will need to confirm that the user
has it installed (check 'the fontnames' property), or install it yourself
(assuming that it is OK for you to do so) as part of your overall
installation process.

As to antialiasing, Revolution doesn't do anything about this - the OSes
themselves implement font smoothing at certain point sizes or larger, and
this is reflected in Rev as much as in Word...

HTH,


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From macstacks at earthlink.net  Sat Nov  5 17:39:49 2005
From: macstacks at earthlink.net (Bruce A. Pokras)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 17:39:49 -0500
Subject: Finding non-common elements in two arrays
Message-ID: <a06110400bf92e2b0f833@[192.168.1.102]>

The intersect function will return the common elements of two arrays. 
Is there any array methodology that will return the non-common 
elements of two arrays? I download a government list each month, and 
I would like an easy way to spot the records that are either new or 
changed. Currently, I use a repeat structure to go through the old 
list line-by-line to see if any lines are not identically found in 
the new list (using offset), and collect a third list of any lines in 
which offset=0. After splitting the old and new lists into arrays, an 
"inverse-intersect" function or equivalent would seem to be a more 
elegant way of doing this.

Any ideas?

Regards,

Bruce Pokras
Blazing Dawn Software
www.blazingdawn.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Nov  5 17:45:48 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 14:45:48 -0800
Subject: Finding non-common elements in two arrays
In-Reply-To: <a06110400bf92e2b0f833@[192.168.1.102]>
References: <a06110400bf92e2b0f833@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <436D361C.2060607@fourthworld.com>

Bruce A. Pokras wrote:
> The intersect function will return the common elements of two arrays. Is 
> there any array methodology that will return the non-common elements of 
> two arrays?

See Ken Ray's BZ request:
<http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=2763>

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From revolution at derbrill.de  Sat Nov  5 17:47:11 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 23:47:11 +0100
Subject: Constrain Within Circle?
In-Reply-To: <20051105180004.A558F82548D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <1A7773AD-4E4E-11DA-93BA-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Jim Hurley wrote:

> In the message box.
>
> go stack url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/ConfinedBalls.rev"

Very very nice Jim!

All the best,

Malte



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sat Nov  5 17:50:36 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 17:50:36 -0500
Subject: My Prototype update!
In-Reply-To: <7C5F6624-6E14-454E-91B0-2E43AB17D06F@danshafer.com>
References: <CB75916C-127B-4DF8-9163-0D5D9DBEA518@adelphia.net>
	<7C5F6624-6E14-454E-91B0-2E43AB17D06F@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <E89E893A-7C6B-4850-BC56-9EE875518118@adelphia.net>

Dan,

I am working on an early release that I hope to share with this list.  
Since we have lawyers and intellectual property involved, I have to  
be careful with what I release. I will when I can. I guess I have not  
looked at the idea of 'other' companies much but I do have another  
company that has been talking about getting together with me. I have  
been doing this from the we need to develop our software on a PDA and  
not who else might need software prototyped for a PDA. Good advice. I  
will think about it.

The main thing that PDAs and Cell phones have that is different is  
methods of input like touch screen and scroll buttons/thumb wheels  
etc. That was why I needed to come up with a scheme for mouseDown  
while doing a bunch of other things. Rev locks out most messages  
while the mouse is down but on PDAs that's when most things happen.

Thank you,

Tom

On Nov 5, 2005, at 3:16 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Tom.....
>
> Wow. What a great update and powerful case study for Revolution!  
> Thanks for sharing that and for your enthusiasm.
>
> I remember clearly the first time I saw you post on the list and  
> how impressed I was by the quality of your questions almost from  
> the outset. Your experience with developing prototype apps using  
> Rev is one that I suspect a TON Of companies could benefit from  
> even if they ended up having to rewrite in the end for a target  
> platform not yet supported by Revolution.
>
> Perhaps the day will come when you can even share the prototypes  
> with us so we can learn from your exprience in the teeny-tiny world  
> of cell/PDA window sizes!
>
> Good luck in the future with these and similar projects.
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
> http://www.shafermedia.com
> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sat Nov  5 17:55:15 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 17:55:15 -0500
Subject: My Prototype update!
In-Reply-To: <3EE8EFB5-C192-46C4-8928-CB0C40EA2457@openpartnership.net>
References: <CB75916C-127B-4DF8-9163-0D5D9DBEA518@adelphia.net>
	<3EE8EFB5-C192-46C4-8928-CB0C40EA2457@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <22C86909-D611-4E27-A62F-E0C73FB9065A@adelphia.net>

David,

We are making these decisions now. So far we are planning an engine  
in ANSI C for portability and then for the interface elements we are  
not 100% sure yet. Some phones are Symbian, others are J2ME and  
others are Hybrids and of course Windows CE etc. So we are developing  
these plans next week and I will know more then.

Thank you,

Tom

On Nov 5, 2005, at 3:24 PM, David Bovill wrote:

> Yes - great case study and congratulations!
>
>
> On 5 Nov 2005, at 20:42, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>
>> Comments:
>> WoW, Revolution really made my job easier, It has been robust and  
>> simple and has out shined Director for this project. We can really  
>> use Revolution to further help us in this process of developing a  
>> working product on a phone/pda. However, It would have been  
>> 'REALLY' nice to be able to port the Rev project directly over to  
>> a windows CE smart phone/PDA environment. It would save us around  
>> fifty thousand dollars in development too.
>>
>
> Sure you know a hell of a lot more about this than I do - would be  
> great to get some info as TV and some simple interactive  
> applications on mobiles is a big part of the future of the project  
> we are working on here in Vienna.
>
> When I took a brief look at this the road involving some scaled  
> down version of SVG designed for mobiles plus Java / javascript  
> seemed promising - there were some products in this area and it  
> looked like it would not be hard to create them in Rev - that is  
> design the interface in Rev - export the SVG and have Java /  
> Javascript libraries that much the functionality of the objects in  
> Rev?
>
> How are you planning to do it???
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From plsntbreez at mac.com  Sat Nov  5 18:00:10 2005
From: plsntbreez at mac.com (Brian Maher)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 18:00:10 -0500
Subject: How to submit enhancement request
Message-ID: <329E58C5-0C88-48CE-9570-11A14B8EBBB9@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

How do you go about submitting an enhancement request to RunRev?

Thanks, Brian



From plsntbreez at mac.com  Sat Nov  5 18:03:15 2005
From: plsntbreez at mac.com (Brian Maher)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 18:03:15 -0500
Subject: How to submit enhancement request
In-Reply-To: <329E58C5-0C88-48CE-9570-11A14B8EBBB9@mac.com>
References: <329E58C5-0C88-48CE-9570-11A14B8EBBB9@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5032DCD0-D1A1-4255-B4DB-4F4D30B59D14@mac.com>

Never mind.  Finally found it in the faq.


From david at openpartnership.net  Sat Nov  5 18:26:30 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 00:26:30 +0100
Subject: Virtual custom property question
In-Reply-To: <BF928E28.2F420%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF928E28.2F420%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <19E62F0C-4C87-44C1-8C55-BAB4321E41C5@openpartnership.net>

Wow thanks - new one to me... why is it not documented? Are there  
others like this hidden somewhere?

On 5 Nov 2005, at 23:28, Ken Ray wrote:

> executionContexts



From bvlahos at mac.com  Sat Nov  5 18:29:10 2005
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 15:29:10 -0800
Subject: My Prototype update!
In-Reply-To: <22C86909-D611-4E27-A62F-E0C73FB9065A@adelphia.net>
References: <CB75916C-127B-4DF8-9163-0D5D9DBEA518@adelphia.net>
	<3EE8EFB5-C192-46C4-8928-CB0C40EA2457@openpartnership.net>
	<22C86909-D611-4E27-A62F-E0C73FB9065A@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <8b00279263eb52a7e8bdab6516079571@mac.com>

Tom,

I believe WindowsCE has been discussed as a supported platform by the 
Rev folks. You might want to contact Kevin and see if some of that 
$50,000 you are going to spend anyway might go to Rev to support that 
platform.

Good for you, good for Rev, good for us who might also want to write 
for portable devices too.

Just my $.02

Bill Vlahos

On Nov 5, 2005, at 2:55 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> David,
>
> We are making these decisions now. So far we are planning an engine in 
> ANSI C for portability and then for the interface elements we are not 
> 100% sure yet. Some phones are Symbian, others are J2ME and others are 
> Hybrids and of course Windows CE etc. So we are developing these plans 
> next week and I will know more then.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Tom
>
> On Nov 5, 2005, at 3:24 PM, David Bovill wrote:
>
>> Yes - great case study and congratulations!
>>
>>
>> On 5 Nov 2005, at 20:42, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Comments:
>>> WoW, Revolution really made my job easier, It has been robust and 
>>> simple and has out shined Director for this project. We can really 
>>> use Revolution to further help us in this process of developing a 
>>> working product on a phone/pda. However, It would have been 'REALLY' 
>>> nice to be able to port the Rev project directly over to a windows 
>>> CE smart phone/PDA environment. It would save us around fifty 
>>> thousand dollars in development too.
>>>
>>
>> Sure you know a hell of a lot more about this than I do - would be 
>> great to get some info as TV and some simple interactive applications 
>> on mobiles is a big part of the future of the project we are working 
>> on here in Vienna.
>>
>> When I took a brief look at this the road involving some scaled down 
>> version of SVG designed for mobiles plus Java / javascript seemed 
>> promising - there were some products in this area and it looked like 
>> it would not be hard to create them in Rev - that is design the 
>> interface in Rev - export the SVG and have Java / Javascript 
>> libraries that much the functionality of the objects in Rev?
>>
>> How are you planning to do it???
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From david at openpartnership.net  Sat Nov  5 18:35:14 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 00:35:14 +0100
Subject: List fields and linktext
In-Reply-To: <8b00279263eb52a7e8bdab6516079571@mac.com>
References: <CB75916C-127B-4DF8-9163-0D5D9DBEA518@adelphia.net>
	<3EE8EFB5-C192-46C4-8928-CB0C40EA2457@openpartnership.net>
	<22C86909-D611-4E27-A62F-E0C73FB9065A@adelphia.net>
	<8b00279263eb52a7e8bdab6516079571@mac.com>
Message-ID: <06CAA6F6-FDC7-4BB5-8206-C43428EC98B0@openpartnership.net>

Is there a way to have list fields work when the lines have the  
linkText property set?

Hacked at the moment with scripting the hilitedLine....


From joel.guillod at net2000.ch  Sat Nov  5 19:03:40 2005
From: joel.guillod at net2000.ch (Joel Guillod)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 01:03:40 +0100
Subject: Constrain Within Circle?
In-Reply-To: <20051105180004.A558F82548D@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051105180004.A558F82548D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <93052DB8-1C21-4FB4-86DA-D78FFB7B6CF3@net2000.ch>

Hi Malte,

My test with the 2 different versions of the function shows a 25%  
faster with the one using atan2 (test with 1000 and 10000 loops, 200  
runs)... on a G4/1.67 GHz/RAM 2 Go/Mac OS X 10.4.2. Probably you  
loose time with testing x1=>x2... But you are right one loop was less  
than one millisecs and may not impair the overall performance.


>> Should the ArcadeEngine be optimized for speed from ...
>>
>
> It is. In my test using atan instead of atan2 was a few milliseconds
> faster. Not too many though. in 350 loops and 50 test runs the atan
> version was about 70 millisecs faster on a G4 - 400 MHz than the atan2
> version. That?s why I chose the longer form. But ...



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Nov  5 19:04:21 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 18:04:21 -0600
Subject: Virtual custom property question
In-Reply-To: <19E62F0C-4C87-44C1-8C55-BAB4321E41C5@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <BF92A4A5.2F43E%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/5/05 5:26 PM, "David Bovill" <david at openpartnership.net> wrote:

> Wow thanks - new one to me... why is it not documented? Are there
> others like this hidden somewhere?

A few... all of these are intended for use by the IDE only (although just
because they're *intended* for use by the IDE doesn't mean we can't use them
ourselves as long as we're careful). Perhaps at some point the RunRev team
will add those to the documentation so that all tokens are represented...

;-)


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From jhurley at infostations.com  Sat Nov  5 19:08:30 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 16:08:30 -0800
Subject: Constrain Within Circle?
In-Reply-To: <20051105222555.F0550825371@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051105222555.F0550825371@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230903bf92f684b16c@[69.19.167.166]>

>
>From: Roger Guay <irog at mac.com>
>
>Cool, Jim.  And, if you change just one line of your code in the 
>mouseMove handler to
>
>                                                                         
>                "if   rr is not r then"
>
>you get an object that is constrained to move on the circle of radius
>rr.  This is useful if you want to build a rotary knob for example.
>


Roger,

Scott and I were working on a problem like the one you describe some 
time ago. But  the question was: Could the rotary knob be used to 
*accumulate* multiple turns by  following the the polar angle. The 
difficulty here was that the angle as reported by RR using the atan2 
function is single valued, that is it returns to the same value after 
one complete revolution. How then do you record the angle *plus* the 
number of revolutions?

But as the knob crosses the branch cut where the angle changes from 
360 back to 0, one can detect this large discontinuity using 
something like: if abs(da) > some small number then add 1 to the 
counter and multiply this  counter by 360, where da is the 
continuously measure difference in polar angle in the mouseMove 
function.

This is hard to explain. Easier to see: In the message box:

go stack url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/Clock.rev"

Jim


From alex at tweedly.net  Sat Nov  5 19:39:32 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 00:39:32 +0000
Subject: Finding non-common elements in two arrays
In-Reply-To: <a06110400bf92e2b0f833@[192.168.1.102]>
References: <a06110400bf92e2b0f833@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <436D50C4.3040306@tweedly.net>

Bruce A. Pokras wrote:

> The intersect function will return the common elements of two arrays. 
> Is there any array methodology that will return the non-common 
> elements of two arrays? I download a government list each month, and I 
> would like an easy way to spot the records that are either new or 
> changed. Currently, I use a repeat structure to go through the old 
> list line-by-line to see if any lines are not identically found in the 
> new list (using offset), and collect a third list of any lines in 
> which offset=0. After splitting the old and new lists into arrays, an 
> "inverse-intersect" function or equivalent would seem to be a more 
> elegant way of doing this.
>
> Any ideas?

It's a bit of a faff, so it's arguably not elegant at all, and you'd 
need to do some testing to see if it's faster or not.
(Oh - and the final result still needs cleaning up ....)

> on mouseUp
>     
>     put fld "F1" into t1
>     repeat for each line L in t1
>         put L & TAB & "1" & cr after tA1
>     end repeat
>     split tA1 by CR and TAB
>      
>     put fld "F2" into t1
>     repeat for each line L in t1
>         put L & TAB & "2" & cr after tA2
>     end repeat
>     split tA2 by CR and TAB
>     
>     union tA1 with tA2
>     combine tA1 with CR and TAB
>   
>     filter tA1 with ("*"&TAB&"2")
>   
>     put tA1 into fld F3
>      
> end mouseUp
>

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/161 - Release Date: 03/11/2005



From jeff at siphonophore.com  Sat Nov  5 21:28:07 2005
From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeffrey Reynolds)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 21:28:07 -0500
Subject: Opening a directory in windows
In-Reply-To: <20051105222555.F0550825371@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051105222555.F0550825371@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a1ec5b03913f3029867b556267ba8ce2@siphonophore.com>

Has anyone found a way to have a directory opened up in Windows from a 
rev command?

What i am trying to do is just open the windows explorer/my computer 
with the requested directory open. basically I want the user to see a 
directory of files opened in windows that are stored on a cdrom by an 
action from an application running from that cdrom.

thanks

jeff



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Nov  5 21:48:44 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 18:48:44 -0800
Subject: Virtual custom property question
In-Reply-To: <BF928E28.2F420%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF928E28.2F420%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <1891252521.20051105184844@ahsoftware.net>

Ken-

Saturday, November 5, 2005, 2:28:24 PM, you wrote:

> Yes, you look at the 'executionContexts'... the last line will be the group
> itself (i.e. the last object to act on the script), but the *second to last*
> line will be the object that was trying to set the custom property.

<standard disclaimer>
...and keep in mind that the executionContexts is not documented, so
it may change or disappear with any future release. Given that it's
used internally in the IDE and that there isn't any alternative to
using it, that isn't likely to happen any time soon, but use it at
your own risk. I'd like to see it documented and given runrev's
blessing, but that hasn't happened yet.
</standard disclaimer>

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From alex at tweedly.net  Sat Nov  5 21:48:36 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 02:48:36 +0000
Subject: Relative Speed of different loop structures. [was Finding non-common
 elements]
Message-ID: <436D6F04.2040508@tweedly.net>

[ You guys probably all know this already, and I had just missed it up 
till now ....]

Any time speed of looping through a data structure is mentioned, the 
first thing anyone says is

Use

>    repeat for each line tLine of tData
>        doSomeThingWith  tLine

because it is much faster than

>   repeat with tIndex = 1 to the number of lines in tData
>        doSomeThingWith  line tIndex of tData


I just realized tonight that you can do

>    put the number of lines in tData into tNumLines
>    split tData by CR
>    repeat with tIndex = 1 to tNumLines
>        doSomeThingWith  tData[tIndex]

(and later combine it again if needed)

While this is nowhere near as fast as the "repeat for", it is better (by 
one or two orders of magnitude) than the "line tIndex of tData" version 
- fast enough that algorithms which I had rejected because of the 
slowness of "line tIndex of tData" can be worth considering again.

In particular - one obvious approach to the "common vs non-common lines" 
problem would be to sort each list, and then step through them 
"together", using an index into each one. This isn't a good approach in 
Rev - because of the high cost of using "line tIndex of tData" - but 
using the split and tData[tIndex] makes it feasible. In fact, I found 
that my first idea of using the two arrays and 'union' is no faster than 
doing  the following
(note "ZZZZZ is assumed to be after all possible lines, and is added to 
ease the loop termination case)

>     put fld "Field" & cr & "ZZZZZZZZZZ" into t1
>     put fld "Field" & cr & "test line" & cr  & "ZZZZZZZZZZ" into t2
>     
>     put the millisecs into tStart
>     put 1 into i2
>     put the number of lines in t2 into limit2
>     
>     sort t1

>     sort t2
>     split t2 by CR
>     put t2[1] into L2
>    
>     repeat for each line L1 in t1
>         repeat while L2 < L1
>             add 1 to i2
>             put t2[i2] into L2
>         end repeat
>         if L2 = L1 then
>             -- put L1 & cr after tBoth
>             add 1 to i2
>             put t2[i2] into L2
>         else
>             -- put L1 & cr after t1only
>         end if
>     end repeat
>     if i2 < limit2 then
>         repeat with i = i2 to limit2-1
>             put t2[i] & cr after t2only
>         end repeat
>     end if
>     put "loop" && the millisecs - tStart & cr after msg         


P.S. I tried hard to break every one of Jerry's recommendation about 
variable naming as described in his excellent tutorial from the 
"Conference" session; if you haven't already downloaded and read that 
stack, you should. It *might* just stop you from writing such ugly code 
as I did above - but my old Fortran habits just keep coming back :-)


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/161 - Release Date: 03/11/2005



From simplsol at aol.com  Sat Nov  5 22:00:35 2005
From: simplsol at aol.com (simplsol at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 22:00:35 -0500
Subject: Fonts and Revolution
In-Reply-To: <BF928FD5.2F423%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <8C7B09564D0C3F7-158C-3546@FWM-R05.sysops.aol.com>

Garrett,
Also remember that all fonts are not available on all platforms. For 
example, you could do your layout on a Mac with Geneva, but this 
typeface is Mac only. You may also find that some typefaces that are 
common to all platforms, like Times or Helvetica, look different on 
each. There has been much discussion of this issue previously on this 
list. For what it may be worth to you: I tried the open source, 
cross-platform Bitstream Vera but after a couple months could not stand 
how it looked; redid everything in Verdana.
Also, if you are using non-proportional fonts, let us know there are 
some issues there as well.
Paul Looney

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com>
To: Use Revolution List <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 16:35:33 -0600
Subject: Re: Fonts and Revolution

    On 11/4/05 6:07 PM, "Garrett R. Hylltun" <garretthylltun at gmail.com> 
wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> What's the deal on the fonts that we can use in our programs;
>
>   are we limited to what's in the text formatting list?
>   can we add our own fonts?
>     - If yes, how and what font format?
>   antialias support?

Basically we are limited to whatever fonts are currently installed on 
the
machine that is running our programs, since Revolution does not (at this
time) support font embedding... this means that if you want to have a
specific font in use in your program, you will need to confirm that the 
user
has it installed (check 'the fontnames' property), or install it 
yourself
(assuming that it is OK for you to do so) as part of your overall
installation process.

As to antialiasing, Revolution doesn't do anything about this - the OSes
themselves implement font smoothing at certain point sizes or larger, 
and
this is reflected in Rev as much as in Word...

HTH,


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

    


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Nov  5 22:31:26 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 19:31:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Slightly OT again] Gaming
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0511050623510.23883@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511051925350.24741-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

On Sat, 5 Nov 2005, Marty Billingsley wrote:

> I need resources on gaming and game design, preferable from an
> algorithmic standpoint.  "The Art of Computer Game Design" was a
> great tip.  Anyone got any others?


Marty,

Have a look at http://www.gamasutra.com.  (you have to register, though)

I just obtained a book from Addison-Wesley:  Kevin Oxland, _Gameplay and
Design_ (2004).  ISBN 0 321 20467 0.  Haven't had a chance to read through
it yet.

MIT Press has a new book out that I haven't seen and don't have the
reference for at the moment.

One which I am liking at the moment and may adopt (if it's still in print)
is Eddie Dombrower's _Art of Interactive Entertainment Design_, ISBN
0070174970.

But they're more process-oriented than programming-oriented.

Judy







From revlist at ecionmicroed.com  Sat Nov  5 22:42:56 2005
From: revlist at ecionmicroed.com (Ron)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 22:42:56 -0500
Subject: Opening a directory in windows
In-Reply-To: <a1ec5b03913f3029867b556267ba8ce2@siphonophore.com>
Message-ID: <2005115224256.621481@msi98>

I've used something like this but don't know if there's a better way:

  local vFldr
  put "d:\samplefolder\" into vFldr
  get shell("c:\windows\explorer.exe /n,/e," & vFldr)

Or  maybe that's not what you meant at all?!

... Ron


______________________________________________
*** From: Jeffrey Reynolds ?(jeff at siphonophore.com)
*** Dated: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 21:28:07 -0500

?Has anyone found a way to have a directory opened up in Windows from a
?rev command?

?What i am trying to do is just open the windows explorer/my computer
?with the requested directory open. basically I want the user to see a
?directory of files opened in windows that are stored on a cdrom by an
?action from an application running from that cdrom.

?thanks

?jeff

?_______________________________________________
?use-revolution mailing list
?use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
?Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
?http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Nov  5 22:54:25 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 19:54:25 -0800
Subject: My Prototype update!
In-Reply-To: <CB75916C-127B-4DF8-9163-0D5D9DBEA518@adelphia.net>
References: <CB75916C-127B-4DF8-9163-0D5D9DBEA518@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <1535193327.20051105195425@ahsoftware.net>

Tom-

!!!Bravo!!!

I want to be able to tell success stories like this when I grow up...
If the team doesn't pick up on this as a feature story I'm gonna
leave them out of my will.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From tkuypers at pandora.be  Sun Nov  6 02:50:18 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 08:50:18 +0100
Subject: Opening a directory in windows
In-Reply-To: <a1ec5b03913f3029867b556267ba8ce2@siphonophore.com>
References: <20051105222555.F0550825371@mail.runrev.com>
	<a1ec5b03913f3029867b556267ba8ce2@siphonophore.com>
Message-ID: <BB763234-6551-41D9-901C-9D53703DEAB7@pandora.be>

The Ken Ray's site has a nice tip, which I use all the time...
http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/file009.htm

Ton


On 6-nov-05, at 03:28, Jeffrey Reynolds wrote:

> Has anyone found a way to have a directory opened up in Windows  
> from a rev command?
>
> What i am trying to do is just open the windows explorer/my  
> computer with the requested directory open. basically I want the  
> user to see a directory of files opened in windows that are stored  
> on a cdrom by an action from an application running from that cdrom.
>
> thanks
>
> jeff
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Nov  6 02:28:26 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 08:28:26 +0100
Subject: Another collection of Pattern Art uploaded
In-Reply-To: <436D271C.90703@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <20051106075223.64A8C8251B3@mail.runrev.com>

sweet as usual!!!

keep them coming!!! ;)

Xavier 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Wilhelm Sanke
> Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:42 PM
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: ANN: Another collection of Pattern Art uploaded
> 
> I have just uploaded a second collection of images created 
> with the "Color Pattern Toolkit" that shows the results of 
> various approaches to produce color patterns. Scottish plaids 
> this time are definitely in the minority.
> 
> Depending on my present tight schedule, which prevents me 
> momentarily even  to participate in any list discussions, the 
> Toolkit will eventually be released for public use this November.
> 
> Go to <http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia> and scroll down to 
> "Pattern Art Two".
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Wilhelm Sanke
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From revolution at derbrill.de  Sun Nov  6 03:36:15 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 09:36:15 +0100
Subject: Constrain Within Circle?
In-Reply-To: <20051105222556.2BCCF825372@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <64C8AE30-4EA0-11DA-BB56-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Hi Joel,

Maybe it was my limited number of loops that didn?t produce a 
meaningful result. :-) Anyway, your version is so much more readable, 
and in single calls they are head to head anyway, that I will likely 
change the function in the next version of AE. Thanks very much for the 
suggestion.

All the best,

Malte


> Hi Malte,
>
> My test with the 2 different versions of the function shows a 25%
> faster with the one using atan2 (test with 1000 and 10000 loops, 200
> runs)... on a G4/1.67 GHz/RAM 2 Go/Mac OS X 10.4.2. Probably you
> loose time with testing x1=>x2... But you are right one loop was less
> than one millisecs and may not impair the overall performance.


From revolution at derbrill.de  Sun Nov  6 03:38:26 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 09:38:26 +0100
Subject: My Prototype update!
In-Reply-To: <20051105222556.2BCCF825372@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B32D6E7A-4EA0-11DA-BB56-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Congrats Tom!!!

I hope everything turns out to be the way you ish it to be and that you 
look into a prosperous future.

All the best,

Malte



From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Sun Nov  6 05:51:36 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Buster)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 11:51:36 +0100
Subject: Finding non-common elements in two arrays
In-Reply-To: <436D50C4.3040306@tweedly.net>
References: <a06110400bf92e2b0f833@[192.168.1.102]>
	<436D50C4.3040306@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <D8E5FDEA-AE0C-470F-8410-B2FEECAA8149@scarlet.be>


On 06 Nov 2005, at 01:39, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Bruce A. Pokras wrote:
>
>> The intersect function will return the common elements of two  
>> arrays. Is there any array methodology that will return the non- 
>> common elements of two arrays? I download a government list each  
>> month, and I would like an easy way to spot the records that are  
>> either new or changed. Currently, I use a repeat structure to go  
>> through the old list line-by-line to see if any lines are not  
>> identically found in the new list (using offset), and collect a  
>> third list of any lines in which offset=0. After splitting the old  
>> and new lists into arrays, an "inverse-intersect" function or  
>> equivalent would seem to be a more elegant way of doing this.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>
> It's a bit of a faff, so it's arguably not elegant at all, and  
> you'd need to do some testing to see if it's faster or not.
> (Oh - and the final result still needs cleaning up ....)
>
>> on mouseUp
>>         put fld "F1" into t1
>>     repeat for each line L in t1
>>         put L & TAB & "1" & cr after tA1
>>     end repeat
>>     split tA1 by CR and TAB
>>          put fld "F2" into t1
>>     repeat for each line L in t1
>>         put L & TAB & "2" & cr after tA2
>>     end repeat
>>     split tA2 by CR and TAB
>>         union tA1 with tA2
>>     combine tA1 with CR and TAB
>>       filter tA1 with ("*"&TAB&"2")
>>       put tA1 into fld F3
>>      end mouseUp
>>
>
> -- 
> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net

Hi,
This method is reporting the missing lines of field 1 in field 2 and  
not the unique lines in both.
This does:

on mouseUp
   put fld 2 into f2
   repeat for each line i in fld 1
     get lineoffset(i,f2)
     if it = 0 then put i & cr after tList
     else delete line it of f2
   end repeat
   put tList & f2 into fld 3
end mouseUp

Greetings,
Wouter





From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Sun Nov  6 08:17:21 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 14:17:21 +0100
Subject: List fields and linktext
In-Reply-To: <06CAA6F6-FDC7-4BB5-8206-C43428EC98B0@openpartnership.net>
References: <CB75916C-127B-4DF8-9163-0D5D9DBEA518@adelphia.net>
	<3EE8EFB5-C192-46C4-8928-CB0C40EA2457@openpartnership.net>
	<22C86909-D611-4E27-A62F-E0C73FB9065A@adelphia.net>
	<8b00279263eb52a7e8bdab6516079571@mac.com>
	<06CAA6F6-FDC7-4BB5-8206-C43428EC98B0@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <3A96D16A-F7D3-4ED2-BDB9-84842AAB6458@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi David,

In such a case, I prefer to build a list as the following one:

<list string 1 > tab <link string 1>
<list string 2> tab <link string 2>
etc.

I set the tab stops in the list field greater than the width of the  
field.
Then the link strings do not appear for the user.
When a line is selected I get item 2 of the selectedText:

on mouseUp
   local tLink
   -----
   set the itemDel to tab
   put item 2 of the selectedText into tLink
   <do what you want with tLink>
end mouseUp

You can sort the list without loosing any link string and it's easier  
to maintain by editing the contents of the field: all link strings  
are there :-)

Le 6 nov. 05 ? 00:35, David Bovill a ?crit :

> Is there a way to have list fields work when the lines have the  
> linkText property set?
> Hacked at the moment with scripting the hilitedLine....

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Nov  6 08:49:46 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 13:49:46 +0000
Subject: Finding non-common elements in two arrays
In-Reply-To: <D8E5FDEA-AE0C-470F-8410-B2FEECAA8149@scarlet.be>
References: <a06110400bf92e2b0f833@[192.168.1.102]>	<436D50C4.3040306@tweedly.net>
	<D8E5FDEA-AE0C-470F-8410-B2FEECAA8149@scarlet.be>
Message-ID: <436E09FA.4000205@tweedly.net>

Buster wrote:

>
> On 06 Nov 2005, at 01:39, Alex Tweedly wrote:
> Hi,
> This method is reporting the missing lines of field 1 in field 2 and  
> not the unique lines in both.

That's right - that's how I interpreted the original request. It said 
"... spot the records that are either new or changed". It didn't say "or 
deleted".  Wanting both is probably a more reasonable interpretation. 
The second version I sent last night does produce both results, though I 
commented out the  part that I thought wasn't needed.

> This does:
>
> on mouseUp
>   put fld 2 into f2
>   repeat for each line i in fld 1
>     get lineoffset(i,f2)
>     if it = 0 then put i & cr after tList
>     else delete line it of f2
>   end repeat
>   put tList & f2 into fld 3
> end mouseUp

Nice clean simple code, but a bit slow.
The "loop" version I sent in my later mail is a bit faster, esp. on 
larger data sets, but unless that's a big problem, I personally would 
stick to this simple code.

Even if Rev does the enhancement Ken requested in BZ, it still won't 
provide a clean way to solve this problem (because it operates on the 
keys of the array, so you need to do the ugly append to each line then 
split ....)

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/161 - Release Date: 03/11/2005



From HyperChris at aol.com  Sun Nov  6 11:31:11 2005
From: HyperChris at aol.com (HyperChris at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 11:31:11 EST
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 26, Issue 18
Message-ID: <1d6.4933c5f6.309f89cf@aol.com>

I would pay for that one. There are a lot of document management chores that 
could be written with a little control over the scanning part. We could toss 
the doc on the glass, click a Rev button that says Preview, followedy by a few 
popups or checkboxes to categorize and label it, and then Scan/Submit to shoot 
it into the system! It would be just beautiful.


In a message dated 11/4/05 2:10:42 PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes:

> I think the way to handle USB externals is to right specific externals
> for specific tasks. For instance a TWAIN USB external which could
> interface with TWAIN compliant scanners.
> 

From esmale at welshpiper.com  Sun Nov  6 12:59:22 2005
From: esmale at welshpiper.com (Erin D. Smale)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 12:59:22 -0500
Subject: Best Practices
Message-ID: <436E447A.7070806@welshpiper.com>

Hello all,

Still plugging away at the tutorials, Dan's book, and the Rev docs. I 
also read Richard's Scripting Style Guide (which has a lot of good 
points for any language). One thing that I've not yet pinned down is the 
conventional wisdom with regard to placement of some items--I know how 
some things *can* be done in Rev, but I'm wondering how they *should* be 
done. I am hoping that some patient souls on the list can help dispel my 
ignorance :-[

* Functions: From what I read, a function can be called by any other 
handler in a given script. Is it therefore best to define functions at 
the beginning of a script, before any event handlers? If I want to open 
a function up to the whole application, should I define it in its own stack?

* Variables: I understand that vars are defined when they're initialised 
(except globals, which need to be declared). This upsets my sense of 
order somewhat, but I can see the advantages. That said, is it best to 
declare variables anyway? Is there any performance impact if I do or 
don't? Is it best practise to use the explicitVariables property?

* Variable type: The variable types are easy enough to distinguish, but 
I'm still getting used to Transcript, so I want to make sure I'm using 
them properly. Can someone check my work here:

(1) Local variable - accessible only within the handler that contains it 
(declare within a handler).
     on someHandler
         local intValue = 5
     end someHandler

(2) Script local variable - accessible to all handlers within the script 
that contains it (declare within a script, outside any handler).
     local intValue

     on someHandler
         intValue = 5
     end someHandler

     on someOtherHandler
         intValue = intValue * 5
     end someOtherHandler
   
(3) Global variable - accessible to all handlers in the application 
(declare in or out of a handler).
     global intValue

    -- Various handlers in various scripts that manipulate intValue

I apologise for this tedious exercise in confirmation. I'm having fun 
with Transcript, and things are working very easily, but I don't have 
any background in HyperCard, so I want to make sure that I start out 
with good scripting habits for use in the Rev world.

Cheers,

-- Erin

Check out The Chimera RPG:
http://www.welshpiper.com



From mcdomi at free.fr  Sun Nov  6 13:04:03 2005
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 19:04:03 +0100
Subject: Best Practices
In-Reply-To: <436E447A.7070806@welshpiper.com>
Message-ID: <1h5mcw3.c93svrr8zv6vM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Erin D. Smale <esmale at welshpiper.com> wrote:

> but I don't have any background in HyperCard, so I want to make sure that
> I start out with good scripting habits for use in the Rev world.

Sure! If if you don't have any background (;-)) in HC, 
you don't have to get rid of bad habits ;-)

-- 
Revolutionario



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  6 13:41:34 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 10:41:34 -0800
Subject: Best Practices
In-Reply-To: <436E447A.7070806@welshpiper.com>
Message-ID: <BF938E5E.301F0%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Good questions, Erin.
On 11/6/05 9:59 AM, "Erin D. Smale" <esmale at welshpiper.com> wrote:
> Still plugging away at the tutorials,
> 
> * Functions: From what I read, a function can be called by any other
> handler in a given script. Is it therefore best to define functions at
> the beginning of a script, before any event handlers?
The function can be located anywhere in the same object or further up the
message hierarchy.  Think about a back script as the last location and could
theoretically contain all of your function handlers for all of your stacks.
The practical location for most functions would be somewhere in the stack
script if they only are used by the current stack.
---- from the Rev docs -----
To create a code library, place the handlers you want to re-use in any
object that's available in your stack, then use the insert script command to
add that object to the message path (use INSERT SCRIPT on openStack)
Handlers (eg. functions) in that object's script are now accessible to any
other handler in Revolution. ... It receives messages after any other
object, and just before the engine receives the message. The BACKSCRIPT
object remains in the message path until the end of the session (or until
you remove it with the remove script command.)
--- from the Rev docs -----
The START USING command inserts the stack at the END of the message path,
after the object's stack and main stack, but BEFORE objects that have been
inserted into the BACK with insert script.
---

>If I want to open 
> a function up to the whole application, should I define it in its own stack?
[me again]  This means that placement of the script container is the key to
building a library of handlers (functions & procedures). Placing an entire
stack puts its stack script at the end of the message path, and also that of
the current card in that stack.  Inserting the script container of an object
(button, card, stack) will put that container at the end of the path AFTER
any 'stacksinuse'.

> * Variables: I understand that vars are defined when they're initialised
> (except globals, which need to be declared). This upsets my sense of
> order somewhat, but I can see the advantages. That said, is it best to
> declare variables anyway? Is there any performance impact if I do or
> don't? Is it best practise to use the explicitVariables property?
> 
> * Variable type: The variable types are easy enough to distinguish, but
> I'm still getting used to Transcript, so I want to make sure I'm using
> them properly. Can someone check my work here:
> 
> (1) Local variable - accessible only within the handler that contains it
> (declare within a handler).
>      on someHandler
>          local intValue = 5
>      end someHandler
> 
> (2) Script local variable - accessible to all handlers within the script
> that contains it (declare within a script, outside any handler).
>      local intValue
> 
>      on someHandler
>          intValue = 5
>      end someHandler
> 
>      on someOtherHandler
>          intValue = intValue * 5
>      end someOtherHandler
>    
> (3) Global variable - accessible to all handlers in the application
> (declare in or out of a handler).
>      global intValue
> 
>     -- Various handlers in various scripts that manipulate intValue
>
Correct.  One extra note on Rev development environment.  Globals are owned
by Rev.  Simply closing a main stack and its sub stacks will leave them in
memory, and the globals they created will still be in Rev.  Closing and
removing from memory will purge all of the objects and scripts, but NOT the
globals.  The globals will persist until you quit Rev.  Sometimes I put
empty into large size globals to ease memory requirements for Rev.


Jim Ault
Las Vegas




From mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk  Sun Nov  6 14:24:32 2005
From: mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 19:24:32 +0000
Subject: Best Practices
In-Reply-To: <436E447A.7070806@welshpiper.com>
References: <436E447A.7070806@welshpiper.com>
Message-ID: <436E5870.1030604@harbourhost.co.uk>

Hi Erin,

Welcome.
Jim Ault pipped me to the "post" on this, but I have some additional 
comments in here that might help, so I send this despite some duplication.

Erin D. Smale wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> * Functions: From what I read, a function can be called by any other 
> handler in a given script. Is it therefore best to define functions at 
> the beginning of a script, before any event handlers? If I want to open 
> a function up to the whole application, should I define it in its own 
> stack?
> 

Often, when people want to do this they will gather functions and
commands into the stack script of a "library" stack. The library stack
typically has only a stack script, and is not as a rule visible to the
user. However it may in fact also contain media such as images that need
to be globally available.

This library stack is inserted into the "message path" with the "start 
using ... " command, before you use it (it is then said to be "in use"). 
Once you don't need the library stack anymore you can remove it from the 
message path with "stop using ... " otherwise it remains open and ready 
for use.

When you Start Using a stack it is placed into the message passing 
hierarchy in such a way that its stack script becomes available to all 
open stacks. This way your library functions or commands may be used by 
any handler in any script of any open stack.

The message path is a very important concept to master.

> * Variables: I understand that vars are defined when they're initialised 
> (except globals, which need to be declared). This upsets my sense of 
> order somewhat, but I can see the advantages. That said, is it best to 
> declare variables anyway? Is there any performance impact if I do or 
> don't? Is it best practise to use the explicitVariables property?
> 

It probably is best practise, but by no means essential.

> * Variable type: The variable types are easy enough to distinguish, but 
> I'm still getting used to Transcript, so I want to make sure I'm using 
> them properly. Can someone check my work here:
> 
> (1) Local variable - accessible only within the handler that contains it 
> (declare within a handler).
>     on someHandler
>         local intValue = 5
>     end someHandler
> 

correct

> (2) Script local variable - accessible to all handlers within the script 
> that contains it (declare within a script, outside any handler).
>     local intValue
> 
>     on someHandler
>         intValue = 5
>     end someHandler
> 
>     on someOtherHandler
>         intValue = intValue * 5
>     end someOtherHandler

Your concept of scope is right but the actual syntax is wrong.
local intValue = 5
is allowed
but
intValue = 5
is never allowed. This sort of assignment is syntactically incorrect in
transcript since lines may not begin with the name of a container of
value but only with a keyword or command. So instead we write:
put 5 into intValue
and
multiply intValue by 5
or
put intValue * 5 into intValue

>   (3) Global variable - accessible to all handlers in the application 
> (declare in or out of a handler).
>     global intValue
> 
>    -- Various handlers in various scripts that manipulate intValue
> 

a global variable is accessible anywhere, but must always be declared to
give handlers explicit access to it.

If declared in a script outside of a handler, the global will be usable
by all the handlers in that script, without any further declaration.
If declared inside a handler, it is accessible to all subsequent lines
of that handler. Other handlers that might need to use it will need 
their own declaration in this case.

> I apologise for this tedious exercise in confirmation. I'm having fun 
> with Transcript, and things are working very easily, but I don't have 
> any background in HyperCard, so I want to make sure that I start out 
> with good scripting habits for use in the Rev world.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> -- Erin

As you might expect, people here use a variety of scripting styles. 
Those who release products publicly probably have to worry about style 
more than those who only use RR for in-house tools. After the 
experimentation stage, you will gradually settle into the style that 
makes sense to you.

Martin Baxter



From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Nov  6 14:29:03 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 19:29:03 +0000
Subject: Best Practices
In-Reply-To: <436E447A.7070806@welshpiper.com>
References: <436E447A.7070806@welshpiper.com>
Message-ID: <436E597F.90407@tweedly.net>

Erin D. Smale wrote:

> * Variables: I understand that vars are defined when they're 
> initialised (except globals, which need to be declared). This upsets 
> my sense of order somewhat, but I can see the advantages. That said, 
> is it best to declare variables anyway? Is there any performance 
> impact if I do or don't? Is it best practise to use the 
> explicitVariables property?

I almost always use explicitVariables, and therefore almost always 
declare variables.

If your typing is as bad as mine, then it's worth small amount of extra 
typing for the convenience of finding all your typos immediately, rather 
than wait to see the bug symptoms. I think it's good practice to do so; 
sometimes if I'm writing temporary code, or a quick test to see how 
something works, or a short-lived script for my own purposes, I'll turn 
explicitVariables off and enjoy the convenience of not declaring - but 
all important code gets tested, and usually written, using 
explicitVariables.

As far as I know, there is no performance impact.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/161 - Release Date: 03/11/2005



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Nov  6 15:11:04 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 12:11:04 -0800
Subject: Best Practices
In-Reply-To: <436E447A.7070806@welshpiper.com>
References: <436E447A.7070806@welshpiper.com>
Message-ID: <08988384.20051106121104@ahsoftware.net>

Erin-

I know others will chime in here, too, but since I have the chance to
draw first blood, here goes...

Sunday, November 6, 2005, 9:59:22 AM, you wrote:

> * Functions: From what I read, a function can be called by any other
> handler in a given script. Is it therefore best to define functions at
> the beginning of a script, before any event handlers? If I want to open
> a function up to the whole application, should I define it in its own stack?

There's no performance hit to the order of things. They get compiled
anyway. Richard's got a great writeup of the message-passing
hierarchy, and that should help as a guideline to where to put
functions. I try to place general-purpose functions either in the
mainStack or in a separate library stack and use the "start using"
syntax.

> * Variables: I understand that vars are defined when they're initialised
> (except globals, which need to be declared). This upsets my sense of
> order somewhat, but I can see the advantages. That said, is it best to
> declare variables anyway? Is there any performance impact if I do or
> don't? Is it best practise to use the explicitVariables property?

<controversial>
I *always* declare my variables and have "script checking by default"
enabled (explicitVariables). There's no performance hit for this
except for having to do the extra typing of declaring the variables.
The upside of this is early bug detection, as the compiler will find
typos for you when you press "Apply", before they become a problem in
the runtime code. Well worth the pain, IMO, of having to type two
words.
</controversial>

> (1) Local variable - accessible only within the handler that contains it
> (2) Script local variable - accessible to all handlers within the script

All good, but note that your syntax isn't going to be accepted. It's
  put 5 into intValue
  multiply intValue by 5
  or
  put intValue * 5 into intValue

> (3) Global variable - accessible to all handlers in the application 

Avoid the use of globals whenever possible <ducking>. This one's
controversial as well, but I always try to pass parameters or use
custom properties instead if I can. There will always be some places
when you can't avoid it, but globals cause all kinds of trouble. Note
that the commonly-accepted notation for globals is to prefix them with
a "g", i.e., global gIntValue

My usual way out of using globals is to provide "get" and "set"
functions for variables that would otherwise be global:

-- in the stack script
local intValue

on SetIntValue pNewValue
  put pNewValue into intValue
end SetIntValue

function GetIntValue
  return intValue
end GetIntValue

> any background in HyperCard, so I want to make sure that I start out
> with good scripting habits for use in the Rev world.

...what Dom said here about unlearning HC habits...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  6 15:10:13 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 12:10:13 -0800
Subject: Finding non-common elements in two arrays
In-Reply-To: <436E09FA.4000205@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <BF93A325.301F6%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

>I download a government list each month...snip
>>     get lineoffset(i,f2)
One catch I can see is the "set whole matches to true"
also considering the false hits generated by your definition of a unique
line (lower case, sub string, number format)
 "Mary had a little lamb" = line 6 of field 2
"Mary had a little lamb,  whose fleece was white" = line 8 of field 1
line 6 of fld 2 is in line 8 of fld 1 => lineoffset would be > 0

"234" & "2345" == offset match, lineOffset not
"234" & "2,345" == offset match not,  lineOffset not
"234" & "2345.00 == offset match, lineOffset not
"234" & "2345, 554, 234, 196" == lineoffset match twice
"snow"  & "snow shovel" & "snowbound" & "snow-bound"

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 11/6/05 5:49 AM, "Alex Tweedly" <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:

> Buster wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On 06 Nov 2005, at 01:39, Alex Tweedly wrote:
>> Hi,
>> This method is reporting the missing lines of field 1 in field 2 and
>> not the unique lines in both.
> 
> That's right - that's how I interpreted the original request. It said
> "... spot the records that are either new or changed". It didn't say "or
> deleted".  Wanting both is probably a more reasonable interpretation.
> The second version I sent last night does produce both results, though I
> commented out the  part that I thought wasn't needed.
> 
>> This does:
>> 
>> on mouseUp
>>   put fld 2 into f2
>>   repeat for each line i in fld 1
>>     get lineoffset(i,f2)
>>     if it = 0 then put i & cr after tList
>>     else delete line it of f2
>>   end repeat
>>   put tList & f2 into fld 3
>> end mouseUp
> 
> Nice clean simple code, but a bit slow.
> The "loop" version I sent in my later mail is a bit faster, esp. on
> larger data sets, but unless that's a big problem, I personally would
> stick to this simple code.
> 
> Even if Rev does the enhancement Ken requested in BZ, it still won't
> provide a clean way to solve this problem (because it operates on the
> keys of the array, so you need to do the ugly append to each line then
> split ....)




From Cubist at aol.com  Sun Nov  6 15:12:41 2005
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 15:12:41 EST
Subject: Best Practices
Message-ID: <c1.64ee61ad.309fbdb9@aol.com>

sez esmale at welshpiper.com:
>* Functions: From what I read, a function can be called by any other 
>handler in a given script. Is it therefore best to define functions at
>the beginning of a script, before any event handlers? If I want to open
>a function up to the whole application, should I define it in its own stack?
   The short answer: As far as Rev is concerned, it makes no difference where 
a function is in its script. As well, if you want your function to be usable 
by anything in a stack, that function should go into the script of the stack 
itself.
   The longer answer: When you use a function in a script, Rev starts out 
looking for the function in that script. If the function isn't there, Rev moves 
up the message-passing hierarchy until it finds a script that contains the 
function.
   As an example, let's say that you've got a button named "Fred", which 
lives on a card named "George" in a stack named "Zelda". Let's say that button 
"Fred" has a mouseUp handler which uses the function SuperTweak. When you click 
on button "Fred", Rev will first check the script of "Fred" to see if the 
SuperTweak function is in it. If SuperTweak is there, great -- Rev will happily use 
the SuperTweak function in button "Fred". But if SuperTweak *isn't* in the 
script of button "Fred", Rev moves up the message-passing heirarchy -- which, in 
this case, means it looks in the script of card "George". If Rev finds 
SuperTweak in the script of card "Fred", it uses that SuperTweak and all is well; if 
not, it's time to move up the message-passing hierarchy once again, which 
means looking in the script of stack "Zelda". If Rev finds SuperTweak in the 
script of stack "Zelda", great! Rev then uses that SuperTweak. But if SuperTweak 
isn;t even *there*, well, that's the end of the line -- there's nowhere else in 
the message-passing hierarchy to *go* -- so Rev will put up a dialog box on 
the screen which complains that Rev doesn't understand "SuperTweak".
   At this point, it is worth noting that there is something called a 
"backscript" which can complicate matters. However, backscripts don't exist by 
default; unless you've explicitly created one, you can safely ignore backscripts.


From irog at mac.com  Sun Nov  6 15:15:24 2005
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 12:15:24 -0800
Subject: Controlling External Devices
Message-ID: <5EC3E172-B4CB-43B6-810C-BF7215611DA8@mac.com>

Thanks to all who contributed to my query about external devices.     
Sarah's suggestion of the Weeder modules utilizing serial  
connections, and Robert's discovery of a new USB I/O device from  
Germany, appear to be potential solutions, at least.  I've got a lot  
to digest and research . . .  I will keep you posted if I make any  
headway. Thanks again for your wonderful support!


Cheers, Roger 


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Nov  6 16:00:43 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 15:00:43 -0600
Subject: Best Practices
In-Reply-To: <436E597F.90407@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <BF93CB1B.2F4E9%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/6/05 1:29 PM, "Alex Tweedly" <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:

> Erin D. Smale wrote:
> 
>> * Variables: I understand that vars are defined when they're
>> initialised (except globals, which need to be declared). This upsets
>> my sense of order somewhat, but I can see the advantages. That said,
>> is it best to declare variables anyway? Is there any performance
>> impact if I do or don't? Is it best practise to use the
>> explicitVariables property?
> 
> I almost always use explicitVariables, and therefore almost always
> declare variables.
> 
> If your typing is as bad as mine, then it's worth small amount of extra
> typing for the convenience of finding all your typos immediately, rather
> than wait to see the bug symptoms. I think it's good practice to do so;
> sometimes if I'm writing temporary code, or a quick test to see how
> something works, or a short-lived script for my own purposes, I'll turn
> explicitVariables off and enjoy the convenience of not declaring - but
> all important code gets tested, and usually written, using
> explicitVariables.
> 
> As far as I know, there is no performance impact.

Yes, so this becomes the scripter's preference. I'm on the other side of the
coin, and very rarely use explicitVariables. It's not because my typing is
necessarily any better than Alex's <grin>, but more because I'm a curmudgeon
and don't want (a) to type a whole bunch of extra declarations, and (b) hate
being reminded by the Script Editor that I need to do so when I forget.

:-)

So it's your choice - the only thing to keep in mind is if you create
plugins or stacks that need to work well alongside other people's stacks, it
is best to make your code "explicitVars compliant" because you never know if
someone else is going to turn explicitVars on or not. However for personal
use, do whatever is comfortable.


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From mcdomi at free.fr  Sun Nov  6 16:19:27 2005
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 22:19:27 +0100
Subject: ANN: Another collection of Pattern Art uploaded
In-Reply-To: <436D271C.90703@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <1h5mlta.1oaxn7d17cuz68M%mcdomi@free.fr>

Wilhelm Sanke <sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de> wrote:

> Go to <http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia> and scroll down to "Pattern Art Two".

very nice!
maybe nicer than serie 1... :-)

by the way, I found a little problem  (maybe, it's a feature ;-)):
it seems to me that there is a "one pixel" border
very visible, for instance, as I use your patterns to make a screen
backdrop (also known as "wallpaper" by windoze users ;-))

I remember that there was a little ago a debate about this, no?

-- 
Revolutionario



From garretthylltun at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 16:22:17 2005
From: garretthylltun at gmail.com (Garrett R. Hylltun)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 13:22:17 -0800
Subject: Fonts and Revolution
In-Reply-To: <BF928FD5.2F423%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <20051104160704.3d90ddb1.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
	<BF928FD5.2F423%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <20051106132217.a6b939c0.garretthylltun@gmail.com>

On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 16:35:33 -0600
Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

> On 11/4/05 6:07 PM, "Garrett R. Hylltun" <garretthylltun at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Greetings,
> > 
> > What's the deal on the fonts that we can use in our programs;
> > 
> >   are we limited to what's in the text formatting list?
> >   can we add our own fonts?
> >     - If yes, how and what font format?
> >   antialias support?
> 
> Basically we are limited to whatever fonts are currently installed on the
> machine that is running our programs, since Revolution does not (at this
> time) support font embedding... this means that if you want to have a
> specific font in use in your program, you will need to confirm that the user
> has it installed (check 'the fontnames' property), or install it yourself
> (assuming that it is OK for you to do so) as part of your overall
> installation process.


Maybe a bug or not, most of the fonts I have installed are not showing up in Rev, and the fonts that show in Rev, some I don't even have installed on my system.


> As to antialiasing, Revolution doesn't do anything about this - the OSes
> themselves implement font smoothing at certain point sizes or larger, and
> this is reflected in Rev as much as in Word...


I may have a bug that is or isn't related to Rev then.  Antialiasing works fine on my system (Ubuntu Linux 5.10 with Gnome 2.12.1) with every program I have run on it, with the exception of programs that run in their own VM such as XBasic.

Should I submit these issues to Runtime?


On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 22:00:35 -0500
simplsol at aol.com wrote:

> Garrett,
> Also remember that all fonts are not available on all platforms. For 
> example, you could do your layout on a Mac with Geneva, but this 
> typeface is Mac only. You may also find that some typefaces that are 


Do Mac OS and OSX have TTF support?


[snip]
> Also, if you are using non-proportional fonts, let us know there are 
> some issues there as well.
> Paul Looney


What are the issues related to non-proportional fonts?


Thanks,
-Garrett


From david at openpartnership.net  Sun Nov  6 16:48:15 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 22:48:15 +0100
Subject: List fields and linktext
In-Reply-To: <06CAA6F6-FDC7-4BB5-8206-C43428EC98B0@openpartnership.net>
References: <CB75916C-127B-4DF8-9163-0D5D9DBEA518@adelphia.net>
	<3EE8EFB5-C192-46C4-8928-CB0C40EA2457@openpartnership.net>
	<22C86909-D611-4E27-A62F-E0C73FB9065A@adelphia.net>
	<8b00279263eb52a7e8bdab6516079571@mac.com>
	<06CAA6F6-FDC7-4BB5-8206-C43428EC98B0@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <FEAFFD31-25C6-4E93-87B5-D209A31FAAE8@openpartnership.net>

Sorted. You must not have (as far as I can tell), the link style of  
the text in a list field - if you want a list field to work that is.  
Only by manually scripting and hiliting lines.

However, you can have the linkText set (which is what I needed) - so  
all I had to do was:

     set the textStyle of line 1 to -1 of fld "Index" to plain

If anyone is interested why I'd want to do such a thing - it allows a  
simple way to store information linked to the lines, that is fast to  
access and allows you to sort the field keeping all the linked  
information in place. Easier than using arrays. Pity Rev strips out  
extra tag information when setting the htmlText of a field or you  
could really link and store lots of useful info along side the  
displayed text.

On 6 Nov 2005, at 00:35, David Bovill wrote:

> Is there a way to have list fields work when the lines have the  
> linkText property set?



From locutis at plutoweb.net  Sun Nov  6 16:51:35 2005
From: locutis at plutoweb.net (locutis at plutoweb.net)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 15:51:35 -0600
Subject: LibPop3 Help!!!
Message-ID: <Email.Wlgla34ndwh@plutoweb.net>

Hi! My name is Cameron, and I'm trying to get your libpop3 scripts to work.

I've managed to connect to the pop3 server, but I can't do anything after that.

Here's my code:

#!revolution

on startup
        pop3Open "IP.ADDRESS.GOES.HERE", "110", "AUTO",
"locutis at mymailserver.net",
"password"
        put the result into theResult
        if theResult is "true" then
                pop3GetTranscript
                put it into theResult
                put "/volumes/tiger/users/cam/desktop/messages.txt" into path
                put theResult into url ("file:"&path)
        end if
        pop3Close
end startup

--

I'm using this in a CGI and I've pasted your code into the CGI to be called,
instead of using the "start using stack xx".

It fails on anything I put other than pop3Open and pop3Close. Those work fine.
 Any attempt to get messages or even a transcript (as noted above) fails. What
am I missing?

Please help!!! Thanks!



From esmale at welshpiper.com  Sun Nov  6 17:02:06 2005
From: esmale at welshpiper.com (Erin D. Smale)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 17:02:06 -0500
Subject: Best Practices
In-Reply-To: <436E447A.7070806@welshpiper.com>
References: <436E447A.7070806@welshpiper.com>
Message-ID: <436E7D5E.3070409@welshpiper.com>

Thanks to all who responded to this. I'm probably erring on the side of 
caution, just because Transcript's ease of use is blowing me away with 
how intuitive it is (syntax errors in my examples notwithstanding). In 
other languages (VB and javascript in particular), you could "get away" 
with this shortcut or that, but it wasn't really "the right way to do 
it." In Rev and Transcript, it's as if the shortcuts are actually built 
in, and *they are* the right way to do it. I'm afraid of making mistakes 
when I'm actually learning to do thing correctly...inconceivable.

Also, the feedback cements my need to dive into the message hierachy and 
really wrap my head around it. I have Richard's article on tap and Dan's 
material is a good read. Geez...you guys were serious when you said 
message hierachy was important. ;-)

Thanks to all for your helpful explanations to and patience with this 
newbie.

Cheers,
-Erin

Erin D. Smale wrote:

> I apologise for this tedious exercise in confirmation. I'm having fun 
> with Transcript, and things are working very easily, but I don't have 
> any background in HyperCard, so I want to make sure that I start out 
> with good scripting habits for use in the Rev world.




From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Nov  6 17:27:18 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 20:27:18 -0200
Subject: Best Practices
In-Reply-To: <436E7D5E.3070409@welshpiper.com>
References: <436E447A.7070806@welshpiper.com> <436E7D5E.3070409@welshpiper.com>
Message-ID: <41FFCDF7-9905-4F5E-86C1-6934BD22B19E@mac.com>


On Nov 6, 2005, at 8:02 PM, Erin D. Smale wrote:

>
> Also, the feedback cements my need to dive into the message  
> hierachy and really wrap my head around it. I have Richard's  
> article on tap and Dan's material is a good read. Geez...you guys  
> were serious when you said message hierachy was important. ;-)
>
> Thanks to all for your helpful explanations to and patience with  
> this newbie.

Erin,

a very useful resource for understanding the message path, is the  
primer made by Dar Scott, I think it's the best resource ever. By  
carefully planning where your code goes, you can save a lot of  
coding. As time goes, you'll begin to develop your own style. There  
are coders here that make heavy use of libraries, others will insert  
all on stackscript and just hook the UI to it, others will make so  
many twists in the message path that their code will resemble a tight  
chain of whispers. The cool thing of Transcript is that it allows you  
to adapt Rev for your tastes and not the other way arround.

There's a scripting style guide that is used by many here that tells  
about how to prefix variables and stuff like that. Also the  
RevInterop group makes a nice guide that allows our stacks to  
interoperate in a sane way.

I remember when I first saw the message primer, before reading it,  
someone said: "in the end, you'll love the message path", and yes, I  
do love it.

Cheers
andre

From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Nov  6 18:48:51 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 17:48:51 -0600
Subject: Best Practices
In-Reply-To: <BF93CB1B.2F4E9%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF93CB1B.2F4E9%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <436E9663.8080202@hyperactivesw.com>

Ken Ray wrote:

> Yes, so this becomes the scripter's preference. I'm on the other side of the
> coin, and very rarely use explicitVariables. It's not because my typing is
> necessarily any better than Alex's <grin>, but more because I'm a curmudgeon
> and don't want (a) to type a whole bunch of extra declarations, and (b) hate
> being reminded by the Script Editor that I need to do so when I forget.

I'm with you. If I wanted to declare all those variables, I might as 
well go off and use RealBasic. For me, the beauty of Revolution is that 
I *don't* have to do any of that stuff.

But as you say, the guys who use explicitVariables won't like my scripts. ;)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Sun Nov  6 19:05:58 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Buster)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 01:05:58 +0100
Subject: Finding non-common elements in two arrays
Message-ID: <223DA994-240F-48C2-92D4-F50E37E3D6AF@scarlet.be>


"Jim Ault"  <JimAultWins at yahoo.com>  wrote:

> One catch I can see is the "set whole matches to true"
> also considering the false hits generated by your definition of a  
> unique
> line (lower case, sub string, number format)
>  "Mary had a little lamb" = line 6 of field 2
> "Mary had a little lamb,  whose fleece was white" = line 8 of field 1
> line 6 of fld 2 is in line 8 of fld 1 => lineoffset would be > 0
>
> "234" & "2345" == offset match, lineOffset not
> "234" & "2,345" == offset match not,  lineOffset not
> "234" & "2345.00 == offset match, lineOffset not
> "234" & "2345, 554, 234, 196" == lineoffset match twice
> "snow"  & "snow shovel" & "snowbound" & "snow-bound"
>
> Jim Ault
> Las Vegas

Good catch :-)

"Alex Tweedly"  <alex at tweedly.net >  wrote:

-snip-

> >     put fld "Field" & cr & "ZZZZZZZZZZ" into t1
> >     put fld "Field" & cr & "test line" & cr  & "ZZZZZZZZZZ" into t2
> >
> >     put the millisecs into tStart
> >     put 1 into i2
> >     put the number of lines in t2 into limit2
> >
> >     sort t1
>
> >     sort t2
> >     split t2 by CR
> >     put t2[1] into L2
> >
> >     repeat for each line L1 in t1
> >         repeat while L2 < L1
> >             add 1 to i2
> >             put t2[i2] into L2
> >         end repeat
> >         if L2 = L1 then
> >             -- put L1 & cr after tBoth
> >             add 1 to i2
> >             put t2[i2] into L2
> >         else
> >             -- put L1 & cr after t1only
> >         end if
> >     end repeat
> >     if i2 < limit2 then
> >         repeat with i = i2 to limit2-1
> >             put t2[i] & cr after t2only
> >         end repeat
> >     end if
> >     put "loop" && the millisecs - tStart & cr after msg
>
>
> P.S. I tried hard to break every one of Jerry's recommendation about
> variable naming as described in his excellent tutorial from the
> "Conference" session; if you haven't already downloaded and read that
> stack, you should. It *might* just stop you from writing such ugly  
> code
> as I did above - but my old Fortran habits just keep coming back :-)
>
>
> -- 
> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net

The handler above is not giving correct results, neither on numeric  
lists nor on word or mixed lists.

Follows a function which is a combination and adaptation of  
techniques mentioned previously in this thread

### adapt the names of handler and the filtermodes to own taste

function intersectSpecial pList1,pList2,pMode
   repeat for each line i in pList1
     add 1 to a[i]
   end repeat
   repeat for each line i in pList2
     add 2 to a[i]
   end repeat
   combine a with cr and tab
### elements only in pList1 --> 1
### elements only in pList2 --> 2
### elements in both lists     --> 3
   if pMode = "bothCommon" then put "*"&tab&"3" into tFilter
   else  if pMode = "uniqueA" then put "*"&tab&"1" into tFilter
   else if pMode = "uniqueB" then put "*"&tab&"2" into tFilter
   else if pMode = "bothUnique" then put "*"&tab&"1,*" &tab&"2" into  
tFilter
   repeat for each item tFilterString in tFilter
     put a into b
     filter b with tFilterString
     replace char 2 to -1 of tFilterString with "" in b
     put b & cr after tList
   end repeat
   return tList
end intersectSpecial

on mouseUp
   put the millisecs into zap
   put intersectSpecial(fld 1,fld 2,"bothUnique") into fld 3
   put the millisecs - zap
end mouseUp

May be not a real speed monster but not bad either
(takes < 500 millisecs for 2 fields with > 25000 lines on an iMac G5  
1.8 gHz)

Greetings,
Wouter


From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Sun Nov  6 19:27:09 2005
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 18:27:09 -0600
Subject: ANN: Constellation 1.0.3 and Gadget Suite Update
In-Reply-To: <36ACAAF1-6547-42E8-8319-1C3302D37276@writeme.com>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9744655@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
	<EA6F7AD4-B613-4D93-A541-F204BD1FD5C5@writeme.com>
	<cbfa4de190d64168f0887550ca4bef36@charter.net>
	<b39db44aaa8aef2397bbd4b12662e6f8@rpsystems.net>
	<58DE2658-F64A-4D42-8B5A-F90FD2EB5791@writeme.com>
	<56382e9f1d57e5c2646d1fa0a159ec03@rpsystems.net>
	<36ACAAF1-6547-42E8-8319-1C3302D37276@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <40A608D0-551D-4701-B3D3-29BE2A102685@daniels-mara.com>

Colleagues and Friends...

The 1.0.3 version of Constellation has just been released and can be  
downloaded by existing users via the "check for updates" link in the  
Doc & Info window (about box). New versions of the other Gadgets from  
D&M have also been uploaded and can be downloaded in the same manner  
indicated above. (Release info below.)

NOTE: some day soon, Inspection Gadget, Object Gadget, Transcript  
Gadget and Time Gadget will be released at full retail price. It  
might be a good time to take advantage of special Gadget Suite  
pricing. (See web site below for details.)

For those who want to find out more about Constellation and the  
Gadget Suite feel free to visit this URL:

     http://daniels-mara.com/products

For those who would like a preview of how Constellation works, there  
are QuickTime? movie tutorials available through a link on the D&M  
Constellation web page. Look for "QuickTime Tutorials for  
Constellation" at mid-page and click it. Or click below to go  
directly to "The Hitchhiker's Guide to Constellation":

     http://daniels-mara.com/products/constellation1.htm

Re-cap of Release Info

Gadget Bar 1.74 pre-release
- accomodates Gadgets that have preferences to load or show at startup
- minor cosmetic fixes on docs & info window
- cleaner copying of icons from gadgets to Gadget Bar at startup

Constellation 1.0.3 release
- can use cmd-w to close Constellation even if Object Gadget is attached
- single node handler mode now works more efficiently
- size and position props of a card now strictly read-only
- Rev menu "Object > Stack Inspector" now opens Constellation if it  
is in use
- deleting custom prop set fixed
- Report button in the Error Dialog creates email with error &  
environment info
- information in Error Dialog now complete

Inspection Gadget 2.91 pre-release
- has preference for loading at startup
- minor cosmetic changes to Docs & Info window

Object Gadget 1.60 pre-release
- now sports an optional platinum color scheme
- editing an object via double click much faster
- edit script added to all object in-context menus

Time Gadget 2.50 pre-release
  - no changes

Transcript Gadget 2.21 pre-release
- now has option for loading at startup
- improved hyperlinking to handlers & definitions
- minor cosmetic fixes on docs & info window
- if dictionary is not loaded, requests to define terms are passed to  
Rev

Acknowledgments

I'd like to give special thanks to the testers--?ric Miclo, Trevor  
DeVore, Alex Tweedly, and Sarah Reichelt for their testing activities  
as well as the users of the products who keep coming up with cool  
ideas and observations.

Best,

Jerry Daniels
Daniels & mara
www.daniels-mara.com



From john at debraneys.com  Sun Nov  6 20:05:07 2005
From: john at debraneys.com (John Tregea)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 12:05:07 +1100
Subject: Tabbeb Panel Behaviour
In-Reply-To: <FD6E828F-657B-4B55-B38B-A720E7F3D523@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <200511070105.jA71597F013238@mail16.syd.optusnet.com.au>

Thanks Eric,

I will try your suggestion.

PS. Love your city...

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Eric Chatonet
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:13 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Tabbeb Panel Behaviour

Hi John,

I work mainly on Mac OS where this can't be an issue but you could  
try to lock messages to avoid this on Windows (not tested).

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

PS. BTW multiple tab panels a la MS Word are not always a good  
solution from an ergonomic point of view ;-)

Le 5 nov. 05 ? 05:52, John Tregea a ?crit :

> I have a card that has three tab panels on it. If I click on say  
> tab 2 of
> panel 1 it behaves as I would expect. That is the tab comes forward  
> and the
> orange highlight strip shows on the top of that tab.
>
> The weird bit is that the corresponding tab on every other panel on  
> the card
> also gets the orange strip. (in this case the second tab). Only the  
> tab I
> click on comes to the front but the others highlight. I am guessing  
> it has
> to do with message passing and an instruction targeting any object  
> of that
> type on the card but I can't see anything obvious happening in the  
> message
> watcher.
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Oh, each tab panel is grouped with sub groups that are each named to
> correspond with the tab name on the panel. None of the names are  
> the same
> across the groups, tabs or sub groups.

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
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Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
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From tominjapan at excite.com  Sun Nov  6 20:23:34 2005
From: tominjapan at excite.com (Thomas McCarthy)
Date: Sun,  6 Nov 2005 20:23:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: LibPop3 Help!!!
Message-ID: <20051107012334.91D5CB6B4@xprdmailfe18.nwk.excite.com>


Hi Cameron,
I've placed some thoughts in your code:

on startup
//the rev cgi engine doesn't know these commands
//you need to open a stack that does.
//Maybe you need to start using Liburl.rev as well?
pop3Open "IP.ADDRESS.GOES.HERE", "110", "AUTO",
"locutis at mymailserver.net",
"password"
put the result into theResult
if theResult is "true" then
pop3GetTranscript
put it into theResult
put "/volumes/tiger/users/cam/desktop/messages.txt" into path
put theResult into url ("file:"&path)
end if
pop3Close
//You might need to "put" something, even if it doesn't seem useful
//"put foo"
end startup

cheers,
tm

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!




From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 20:25:03 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 11:25:03 +1000
Subject: My Prototype update!
In-Reply-To: <CB75916C-127B-4DF8-9163-0D5D9DBEA518@adelphia.net>
References: <CB75916C-127B-4DF8-9163-0D5D9DBEA518@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511061725xf2fe31p6d36fd2e9639a81@mail.gmail.com>

What a great story. I hope RunRev put it on their web site somewhere
as a terrific example of Revolution in the real world.

Glad I could be of some assistance.

All the best,
Sarah


From locutis at plutoweb.net  Sun Nov  6 21:14:38 2005
From: locutis at plutoweb.net (Locutis)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 20:14:38 -0600
Subject: LibPop3 Help!!! 
Message-ID: <000e01c5e341$018c52c0$6800a8c0@stryder>

I've got it to work.  BTW:  I pasted the entire stack script from the libpop3 stack into the cgi.  I got an email from Sean (the creator) and here's his suggestion:

>the problem that I can see in your sample code is you're treating the 
>functions like commands.
>
>COMMAND pop3Open server, port, authType, authUser, authPass [, callback]
>FUNCTION pop3GetMessageCount( [callback] )
>FUNCTION pop3GetUniqueIdList( [callback] )
>FUNCTION pop3GetMessageHeaders( messageNumber [,callback] )
>FUNCTION pop3GetMessage( messageNumber [,callback] )
>COMMAND pop3DeleteMessage messageNumber [,callback]
>COMMAND pop3Close [callback]
>
>Pretty much anything that returns an answer is a function, anything that 
>just does something is a command.
>
>try:
>
>put pop3GetMessageCount() into tNumberOfMessages
>
>Anything else, feel free to ask,
>-Sean

It now works flawlessly!

Here's my sample code:

#!revolution

on startup
    pop3Open "ipaddress", "110", "AUTO", "username", "password"
    put the result into theResult
    if theResult is "true" then
        put pop3GetMessageCount() into numberofMessages
        if numberofMessages > 0 then
            put pop3GetMessage(1) into theMessage
            put "/volumes/tiger/users/cam/desktop/message.txt" into path
            put the message into url ("file:"&path)
        end if
    end if
    pop3Close
    put the result into theResult
    if theResult is "true" then
        exit to hypercard
    else
        put "/volumes/tiger/users/cam/desktop/error.txt" into path
        put theResult into url ("file:"&path)
        exit to hypercard
    end if
end startup

[paste entire stack script here]

From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  6 22:58:16 2005
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 19:58:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: message primer
In-Reply-To: <41FFCDF7-9905-4F5E-86C1-6934BD22B19E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20051107035816.70189.qmail@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



--- Andre Garzia <soapdog at mac.com> wrote:


> a very useful resource for understanding the
> message path, is the
> primer made by Dar Scott, I think it's the best
> resource ever. By
> carefully planning where your code goes, you
> can save a lot of
> coding. As time goes, you'll begin to develop
> your own style. There
> are coders here that make heavy use of
> libraries, others will insert
> all on stackscript and just hook the UI to it,
> others will make so
> many twists in the message path that their code
> will resemble a tight
> chain of whispers. The cool thing of Transcript
> is that it allows you
> to adapt Rev for your tastes and not the other
> way arround.
> 
> There's a scripting style guide that is used by
> many here that tells
> about how to prefix variables and stuff like
> that. Also the
> RevInterop group makes a nice guide that allows
> our stacks to
> interoperate in a sane way.
> 
> I remember when I first saw the message primer,
> before reading it,
> someone said: "in the end, you'll love the
> message path", and yes, I
> do love it.

agreed, although i haven't absorbrf the
advanced chapters. i like the use of
graphics to illustrate points.

> a tight chain of whispers
is quite a concept.

ERik Hansen

erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sun Nov  6 23:02:12 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 23:02:12 -0500
Subject: Testing Standards
Message-ID: <D34B387A-28DA-486A-9B06-D594F250D9C4@adelphia.net>

Hello to all,

Thanks for the kind words and comments. I am now trying to set up a  
testing team for my project. And, well, I am used to doing this as a  
one man team and i am pretty good at that, but I need to organize a  
small team of 2 to 4 people to do the testing on the ANSI C  
engineering aspect of the project and am not sure of the best way to  
go about this.

Is there a set of standards for group testing? What about software? I  
know our programming team is using bugzilla, which is great for bugs  
but what about features and whether they are being done right or not?

Does anyone have some pointers in this direction? How to keep the  
team together and on the same page?

Any help is greatly appreciated,

Tom McGrath


From kee at kagi.com  Sun Nov  6 23:43:04 2005
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 20:43:04 -0800
Subject: examples accepting appleevents
In-Reply-To: <5EC3E172-B4CB-43B6-810C-BF7215611DA8@mac.com>
References: <5EC3E172-B4CB-43B6-810C-BF7215611DA8@mac.com>
Message-ID: <D4527C3C-DC05-40A1-A0E2-236FEFE05F04@kagi.com>

Can someone point me to where I might go to see an example of one  
stack communicating with another stack via appleevents (on MacOSX)?  
I'm not exactly sure how to pass data via appleevents and have the  
other app catch them and reply back.

Want to pass the data that would be needed to send an email message  
and then get back a response saying the email was sent.

I know this is simple, just have not figured it out. I can send  
commands to pre-existing apps and make them sing and dance. But I've  
no clue how to send commands when there is no dictionary.

Thanks in advance,
Kee Nethery


From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Nov  6 23:55:18 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 02:55:18 -0200
Subject: examples accepting appleevents
In-Reply-To: <D4527C3C-DC05-40A1-A0E2-236FEFE05F04@kagi.com>
References: <5EC3E172-B4CB-43B6-810C-BF7215611DA8@mac.com>
	<D4527C3C-DC05-40A1-A0E2-236FEFE05F04@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <7D623811-16F9-40E6-8155-8F65D5E2CF5F@mac.com>


On Nov 7, 2005, at 2:43 AM, kee nethery wrote:

> Can someone point me to where I might go to see an example of one  
> stack communicating with another stack via appleevents (on MacOSX)?  
> I'm not exactly sure how to pass data via appleevents and have the  
> other app catch them and reply back.
>
> Want to pass the data that would be needed to send an email message  
> and then get back a response saying the email was sent.
>
> I know this is simple, just have not figured it out. I can send  
> commands to pre-existing apps and make them sing and dance. But  
> I've no clue how to send commands when there is no dictionary.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Kee Nethery

Kee,

I am doing that right now, if you want I can build a sample stack for  
you and send to you tomorrow (it's 2:53 AM now, am not thinking well)

There's a message called AppleEvent that you can use to handle events.
There's "send to program" that you can use to send events.
There's "request from program" that also sends events.
There's "reply to program" that does the reply.

cheers.
andre



> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Nov  7 01:56:57 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 22:56:57 -0800
Subject: examples accepting appleevents
In-Reply-To: <D4527C3C-DC05-40A1-A0E2-236FEFE05F04@kagi.com>
References: <5EC3E172-B4CB-43B6-810C-BF7215611DA8@mac.com>
	<D4527C3C-DC05-40A1-A0E2-236FEFE05F04@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <2B2B0FCA-4641-46F0-8209-75E11595B49A@danshafer.com>

Kee....

Do you want to do this between stacks in the IDE or between stacks in  
a single finished application or between two finished Rev applications?


On Nov 6, 2005, at 8:43 PM, kee nethery wrote:

> Can someone point me to where I might go to see an example of one  
> stack communicating with another stack via appleevents (on MacOSX)?  
> I'm not exactly sure how to pass data via appleevents and have the  
> other app catch them and reply back.
>
> Want to pass the data that would be needed to send an email message  
> and then get back a response saying the email was sent.
>
> I know this is simple, just have not figured it out. I can send  
> commands to pre-existing apps and make them sing and dance. But  
> I've no clue how to send commands when there is no dictionary.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Kee Nethery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From laguer at ucs.orst.edu  Mon Nov  7 02:23:58 2005
From: laguer at ucs.orst.edu (Rich Lague)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 23:23:58 -0800
Subject: open standalone with field selected?
Message-ID: <76715A7D-4F5F-11DA-A2E5-0003939F79D2@ucs.orst.edu>

I have been trying to create a standalone that will open with a field 
already selected. I also want the stack to open to a random card. The 
application is the kind with a 'splash screen' main stack.

  I have tried several approaches between putting commands in 
preOpenStack  or in openStack. The script below opens the Rev stack to 
a random card, but once it is compiled into a standalone app it only 
opens to the first card. It also does not put "find" into the find 
field, and the text is not selected. I have put "select the text of 
field "find"" in the openCard handler of the stack. So, when a new card 
is opened the text of the find field is selected. But it does not work 
when the standalone is opened. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks so much!
Rich Lague

on openStack
--  lock screen
   put random(the number of cds) into aNum
   go cd aNum
--  go cd (aNum + 1)
   put "find" into field "find"
   select the text of field "find"
--  unlock screen
end openStack


From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Nov  7 02:33:06 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 01:33:06 -0600
Subject: open standalone with field selected?
In-Reply-To: <76715A7D-4F5F-11DA-A2E5-0003939F79D2@ucs.orst.edu>
References: <76715A7D-4F5F-11DA-A2E5-0003939F79D2@ucs.orst.edu>
Message-ID: <436F0332.2060408@chipp.com>

Hi Rich,

try this:

send "selectMyField" to this stack in 100 milliseconds

then:

on selectMyField
   select the text of field "find"
end selectMyField

You can tweak the 100 milliseconds up or down depending on the wait.

best,

Chipp

Rich Lague wrote:
> I have been trying to create a standalone that will open with a field 
> already selected. I also want the stack to open to a random card. The 
> application is the kind with a 'splash screen' main stack.
> 
>  I have tried several approaches between putting commands in 
> preOpenStack  or in openStack. The script below opens the Rev stack to a 
> random card, but once it is compiled into a standalone app it only opens 
> to the first card. It also does not put "find" into the find field, and 
> the text is not selected. I have put "select the text of field "find"" 
> in the openCard handler of the stack. So, when a new card is opened the 
> text of the find field is selected. But it does not work when the 
> standalone is opened. What am I doing wrong?
> 
> Thanks so much!
> Rich Lague
> 
> on openStack
> --  lock screen
>   put random(the number of cds) into aNum
>   go cd aNum
> --  go cd (aNum + 1)
>   put "find" into field "find"
>   select the text of field "find"
> --  unlock screen
> end openStack



From kee at kagi.com  Mon Nov  7 10:06:47 2005
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 07:06:47 -0800
Subject: examples accepting appleevents
In-Reply-To: <2B2B0FCA-4641-46F0-8209-75E11595B49A@danshafer.com>
References: <5EC3E172-B4CB-43B6-810C-BF7215611DA8@mac.com>
	<D4527C3C-DC05-40A1-A0E2-236FEFE05F04@kagi.com>
	<2B2B0FCA-4641-46F0-8209-75E11595B49A@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <72AC21FE-9E66-47E7-92DA-CCD6AA08BAB8@kagi.com>


On Nov 6, 2005, at 10:56 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Kee....
>
> Do you want to do this between stacks in the IDE or between stacks  
> in a single finished application or between two finished Rev  
> applications?

Actually, from an applescript applet to a finished Rev application. I  
am assuming that if I can get a stack in the IDE to talk to a  
finished stack application, the code for the applet should be as what  
would be in the IDE.

I'm guessing you are asking for this clarification because ... if the  
transaction is between two finished applications, having the master  
application find the slave application gets to be very complicated.  
That would be an interesting sample stack to see but more than what I  
need.

Thanks, Kee




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Nov  7 11:25:13 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 17:25:13 +0100
Subject: adaptive timing for rev - great TIP!
Message-ID: <20051107154842.C1625824E31@mail.runrev.com>

Here's a card script for an image and a fld...

It does a visual effect like we last saw thank to Alex Tweedly
"Image swap algorithm".

What happens in this script is an adaptive but variable
timing for the image swap. 



local bestpnumber
constant minTime = 1 -- 1 second it shoul take
constant maxTime = 1.1 -- 1.1 seconds

on mouseUp

  if bestpnumber is not a number then put 20 into bestpnumber
  get the milliseconds
  imageswap the long name of img id 9991013, the long name of fld about,
bestpnumber
  put the milliseconds - it into timeTaken
  get 1+(100/random(100)+1) -- change only a fraction
  if timetaken / 1000 < minTime       then multiply bestpnumber by it
  else if timetaken / 1000 > maxTime  then divide   bestpnumber by it

end mouseUp

on imageSwap pObj1, pObj2, pNumber
  local r1, r2
  local dtlx, dtly, dbrx, dbry
   
  if pnumber is not a number or pnumber < 3 then
    put 20 into pNumber
  end if
  
  put the rect of pObj1 into r1
  put the rect of pObj2 into r2
   
  put (item 1 of r2 - item 1 of r1)/pNumber into dtlx
  put (item 2 of r2 - item 2 of r1)/pNumber into dtly
  put (item 3 of r2 - item 3 of r1)/pNumber into dbrx
  put (item 4 of r2 - item 4 of r1)/pNumber into dbry
   
  repeat with i = 1 to pNumber
    if swaplayer <> true then
      if i > pnumber / 2 then
        set the layer of pObj1 to the layer of pObj2 + 1
        put true into swaplayer
      end if
    end if
    set the rect of pObj1 to trunc(item 1 of r1 + i*dtlx), \
        trunc(item 2 of r1 + i*dtly), trunc(item 3 of r1 + i*dbrx),
trunc(item 4 of r1 + i*dbry)
    set the rect of pObj2 to trunc(item 1 of r2 - i*dtlx), \
        trunc(item 2 of r2 - i*dtly), trunc(item 3 of r2 - i*dbrx),
trunc(item 4 of r2 - i*dbry)
  end repeat
end imageSwap



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Nov  7 11:31:16 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 17:31:16 +0100
Subject: Issues with image libraries
Message-ID: <20051107155445.6E291824E34@mail.runrev.com>

Hi everyone

Here's a strange question...

I got stack (xos) that loads an image library (xosmedialib).

When the xos stack opens if contains background patterns or icons for
controls which are located into the image library. 

So at first those are grey as if they had no pattern. BUT after opening the
library, you have to either click them or swap stack window modes twice to
refresh them.

Is there any other way?

Reaffecting the image id ? -- sounds rededundant...
unlock screen doesn't do anything... 

refreshGMScreen?

Thanks for any info

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Nov  7 11:41:32 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 17:41:32 +0100
Subject: Issues with image libraries
In-Reply-To: <20051107155445.6E291824E34@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20051107160456.78C0E824E34@mail.runrev.com>

small adjustment


local bestpnumber
local mintime=1
local maxtime=1.1

on mouseUp
  if bestpnumber is not a number then put 200 into bestpnumber
  put the milliseconds into startedtime
  imageswap the long name of img id 9991013, the long name of fld about,
bestpnumber
  put (the milliseconds - startedtime) / 1000 into timeTaken
  get 1+(100/ (90+(random(10))))
  if timetaken < mintime then multiply bestpnumber by it
  else if timetaken > maxtime then divide bestpnumber by it
  -- debug info
  put bestpnumber &cr& it &cr& timetaken
  
end mouseUp
 
the formula can be perfected... ;)
But it does converge better. A second delta maybe needed for the
other object I think...

cheers
Xavier


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of MisterX
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 5:31 PM
> To: 'How to use Revolution'
> Subject: Issues with image libraries
> 
> Hi everyone
> 
> Here's a strange question...
> 
> I got stack (xos) that loads an image library (xosmedialib).
> 
> When the xos stack opens if contains background patterns or 
> icons for controls which are located into the image library. 
> 
> So at first those are grey as if they had no pattern. BUT 
> after opening the library, you have to either click them or 
> swap stack window modes twice to refresh them.
> 
> Is there any other way?
> 
> Reaffecting the image id ? -- sounds rededundant...
> unlock screen doesn't do anything... 
> 
> refreshGMScreen?
> 
> Thanks for any info
> 
> cheers
> Xavier
> http://monsieurx.com/taoo
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Nov  7 11:57:07 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:57:07 -0800
Subject: Issues with image libraries
In-Reply-To: <20051107155445.6E291824E34@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BF94C763.2476C%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, MisterX  wrote:

> When the xos stack opens if contains background patterns or icons for
> controls which are located into the image library.
> 
> So at first those are grey as if they had no pattern. BUT after opening the
> library, you have to either click them or swap stack window modes twice to
> refresh them.
> 
> Is there any other way?
> 
> Reaffecting the image id ? -- sounds rededundant...
> unlock screen doesn't do anything...

Did you look at the alwaysBuffer of the stack?  Perhaps you set this to
false at some point.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Mon Nov  7 12:11:47 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 09:11:47 -0800
Subject: Fwd: Revolution and SERVICE USB -hardware control with REV
Message-ID: <p06230903bf9538dca968@[192.168.1.104]>

Continuing the thread about machine control...
I read the specs from
http://www.bkohg.de/service_e.html

and wrote requesting info about more directly connecting Rev.
Marco B?nig wrote back and suggested using their Applescript interface.

Would there be an advantage in having an XCMD do 
this instead of Applescript? Would there be some 
latency in using Applescript instead of directly?

I don't need this now, but I figure sometime in 
the future I will. I often end up in strange 
hardware-software lashups.

stephen barncard


>From: Marco B?nig <mb at bkohg.com>
>Subject: Revolution and SERVICE USB
>Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 10:52:35 +0100
>To: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com
>
>
>Dear Mr. Barncard,
>
>it's funny. We got a lot of requests about 
>Revolution and we think, we had forgotten to 
>support Revolution. Sorry for that.
>
>However, we tested our Interface on MacOSX with 
>Revolution and it works. Revolution can control 
>AppleScript and AppleScript can control SERVICE 
>USB plus. For example, to set the output value 
>to 85 (= 01010101 binary) the syntax is:
>
>do "set SERVICE output value 85" as applescript
>
>We have no sample stack yet, but we will create 
>a sample stack, starting in a few days.
>
>SERVICE USB is a Mac-only product. Maybe it is a 
>good idea to work with Revolution and SERVICE 
>USB on a PC. But we have no resources to handle 
>support for an additional platform, like PC and 
>Windows. Thus we have no plans to create a 
>PC-Version.
>
>If you are a hardcore system-programmer, we can 
>explain the SERVICE USB low level protocol to 
>you and try to help creating a PC Version.
>
>best regards
>Marco Boenig
>________________________________________________
>Marco B?nig                  mailto:mb at bkohg.com
>
>B?nig und Kallenbach oHG     Tel. 0231/753650
>Lindemannstr. 25             Fax: 0231/753659
>D-44137 Dortmund             http://bkohg.com
>
>
>
>Am 04.11.2005 um 21:18 schrieb stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com:
>
>>I think you have a great product, with many 
>>uses. I use a software platform called Runtime 
>>Revolution
>>
>>http://www.runrev.com/
>>
>>- it's an evolution of an earlier product 
>>called Metacard. It's a RAD that is the clear 
>>and superior succesor to Hypercard.
>>
>>Since it appears that you have created 
>>middleware for almost every other development 
>>platform, I wonder if you would consider 
>>helping us Rev users get connected to your 
>>interfaces. You'll find a lot of folks that 
>>will help you do it on our rather friendly 
>>email list.  Right now I'd be happy with a Mac 
>>XCMD that would work with Rev, but I'm sure the 
>>others would love a PC version at some point.
>>
>>OR perhaps you have a SDK that might point the way.


-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Nov  7 12:21:06 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 09:21:06 -0800
Subject: Issues with image libraries
In-Reply-To: <20051107155445.6E291824E34@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051107155445.6E291824E34@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20051107091210.01eaeb30@pop3.pon.net>

Hi Xavier,

>  got stack (xos) that loads an image library (xosmedialib).
>
>When the xos stack opens if contains background patterns or icons for
>controls which are located into the image library.
>
>So at first those are grey as if they had no pattern. BUT after opening the
>library, you have to either click them or swap stack window modes twice to
>refresh them.
>
>Is there any other way?

I have noticed the same problem with buttons whose icon images are in 
Serendipity Library.

As I recall, my workaround was something like (in preOpenStack):

         start using stack "Serendipity_Library.rev"
         repeat with x = 1 to the number of buttons
                 set the icon of button x to (the icon of button x)
         end if

You might try "set the rect of image x to (the rect of image x)", or 
something like that.

Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
  Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

  from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) 



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Nov  7 12:37:19 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 18:37:19 +0100
Subject: Issues with image libraries
In-Reply-To: <BF94C763.2476C%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <20051107170043.B69D3824FD7@mail.runrev.com>

Scott

> Did you look at the alwaysBuffer of the stack?  Perhaps you 
> set this to false at some point.

That's a hell of a point!!!

In testing... ;)

Xav


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Scott Rossi
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 5:57 PM
> To: x at monsieurx.com, How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Issues with image libraries
> 
> Recently, MisterX  wrote:
> 
> > When the xos stack opens if contains background patterns or 
> icons for 
> > controls which are located into the image library.
> > 
> > So at first those are grey as if they had no pattern. BUT after 
> > opening the library, you have to either click them or swap stack 
> > window modes twice to refresh them.
> > 
> > Is there any other way?
> > 
> > Reaffecting the image id ? -- sounds rededundant...
> > unlock screen doesn't do anything...
> 
> Did you look at the alwaysBuffer of the stack?  Perhaps you 
> set this to false at some point.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Nov  7 12:49:14 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 11:49:14 -0600
Subject: Scripting conference stack available - Standalones
Message-ID: <436F939A.6090105@hyperactivesw.com>

Mark Weider's scripting conference stack on Standalones is now available 
for download at:

<http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences/>

Mark's done a nice job describing the setup and building process, and 
this stack covers all the basics of using the Standalone Builder, as 
well as providing links to other resources online. His talk this 
Saturday will include additional information not available in the stack, 
so do plan to attend.

The scripting conference will be held at 1131814800 seconds. To convert 
this to your own local time and date:

   get "1131814800";convert it to system date and time;put it

See you there.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From alanat30 at canada.com  Mon Nov  7 12:30:42 2005
From: alanat30 at canada.com (alanat30 at canada.com)
Date: Mon,  7 Nov 2005 11:30:42 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Email Changed
Message-ID: <113138657201@mx-5.vancouver.ipapp.com>

Alan Tsang\'s email has changed to alanat30 @ gmail .com
and this canada.com email will no longer be read.

Thank you.


From alanat30 at canada.com  Mon Nov  7 13:00:23 2005
From: alanat30 at canada.com (alanat30 at canada.com)
Date: Mon,  7 Nov 2005 12:00:23 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Email Changed
Message-ID: <113138835801@mx-5.vancouver.ipapp.com>

Alan Tsang\'s email has changed to alanat30 @ gmail .com
and this canada.com email will no longer be read.

Thank you.


From maillist at roomity.com  Mon Nov  7 16:11:10 2005
From: maillist at roomity.com (shenanigans)
Date: Mon,  7 Nov 2005 13:11:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [OTAnn] Feedback
Message-ID: <8573579.311131397870047.JavaMail.tomcat5@slave1.roomity.com>

I was interested in getting feedback from current mail group users.

We have mirrored your mail list in a new application that provides a more aggregated and safe environment which utilizes the power of broadband.

Roomity.com v 1.5 is a web 2.01 community webapp. Our newest version adds broadcast video and social networking such as favorite authors and an html editor.

It?s free to join and any feedback would be appreciated.

S.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Broadband interface (RIA) + mail box saftey = <a href="http://Dreamcard_&_Revolution_Users_List.roomity.com">Dreamcard_&_Revolution_Users_List.roomity.com</a>
*Your* clubs, no sign up to read, ad supported; try broadband internet. ~~1131397870044~~
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 16:10:37 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 07:10:37 +1000
Subject: Scripting conference stack available - Standalones
In-Reply-To: <436F939A.6090105@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <436F939A.6090105@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511071310p21399854le031e78ee5e0a44d@mail.gmail.com>

> The scripting conference will be held at 1131814800 seconds. To convert
> this to your own local time and date:
>
>    get "1131814800";convert it to system date and time;put it
>

So, you've gone on to daylight-savings time. Now it's at 3am my time
instead of 2am. I'm having trouble deciding if that's better or worse
:-)

Yours sleepily,
Sarah


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Nov  7 19:06:31 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 18:06:31 -0600
Subject: Scripting conference stack available - Standalones
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511071310p21399854le031e78ee5e0a44d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <436F939A.6090105@hyperactivesw.com>
	<f99b52860511071310p21399854le031e78ee5e0a44d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <436FEC07.2080902@hyperactivesw.com>

Sarah Reichelt wrote:
>>The scripting conference will be held at 1131814800 seconds. To convert
>>this to your own local time and date:
>>
>>   get "1131814800";convert it to system date and time;put it
>>
> 
> 
> So, you've gone on to daylight-savings time. Now it's at 3am my time
> instead of 2am. I'm having trouble deciding if that's better or worse
> :-)

Gone off daylight savings, actually. I think Europe is the same. But not 
you folks down under?

Good thing downloads work 24 hours a day. ;)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From garretthylltun at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 19:11:11 2005
From: garretthylltun at gmail.com (Garrett R. Hylltun)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 16:11:11 -0800
Subject: Fonts and Revolution
In-Reply-To: <8C7B09564D0C3F7-158C-3546@FWM-R05.sysops.aol.com>
References: <BF928FD5.2F423%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<8C7B09564D0C3F7-158C-3546@FWM-R05.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20051107161111.9c1f8b0a.garretthylltun@gmail.com>

An update to my font issue...

Ran some test apps on Windows ME and then Windows 98 via Wine on linux, and the font antialiasing works fine.

So this must be an issue localized to Linux/Gnome/Kde.

Thanks to everyone for the help.  :-)

-Garrett


From dave at crystalpiersw.com  Mon Nov  7 20:52:47 2005
From: dave at crystalpiersw.com (Dave Beck)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 22:52:47 -0300
Subject: Load URL returns error 10049
Message-ID: <20051108012044.A84CB824F6C@mail.runrev.com>

 

Hi,

 

I have a rev standalone that has been distributed to a number of users. The
standalone uses the "load URL" command to get a web page from my server. The
command works as expected for every user to which I've distributed the stack
except for one. The load URL command fails for this user and the URLStatus
function returns "error". Then the libURLErrorData function returns "10049".
Does anybody have any idea what could be causing this error? The user is
able to browse the internet with IE without problems before and after the
error occurs, so I doubt it is a problem with her setup. The online info I
could find on the error says it is related to opening invalid an IP address:

 

Winsock error 10049 typically occurs when you attempt to create a socket
with an address not on this machine.  For example if you have MDaemon
running on a machine with an IP address of 192.168.0.1 and you attempt to
bind MDaemon to 192.168.0.100 you will receive this error message.

 

In truth that doesn't make a great deal of sense to me, but maybe there is
somebody on this list that can shed a little light on the situation?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Dave Beck

 



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 21:44:07 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 12:44:07 +1000
Subject: Scripting conference stack available - Standalones
In-Reply-To: <436FEC07.2080902@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <436F939A.6090105@hyperactivesw.com>
	<f99b52860511071310p21399854le031e78ee5e0a44d@mail.gmail.com>
	<436FEC07.2080902@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511071844k45298eedm14501775f80100a0@mail.gmail.com>

> > So, you've gone on to daylight-savings time. Now it's at 3am my time
> > instead of 2am. I'm having trouble deciding if that's better or worse
> > :-)
>
> Gone off daylight savings, actually. I think Europe is the same. But not
> you folks down under?
>

It varies. Here in Queensland, we don't do daylight savings at all.
People are worried that the extra hour of daylight might make their
curtains fade :-)

The rest of the country has just started daylight saving, except for
Tasmania which starts 4 weeks before everyone else. I guess they
really like to save :-)

All designed to make life difficult for us poor programmers!

Cheers,
Sarah


From scott at proherp.com  Mon Nov  7 22:01:37 2005
From: scott at proherp.com (Scott Kane)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 14:01:37 +1100
Subject: Scripting conference stack available - Standalones
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511071844k45298eedm14501775f80100a0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c5e410$be521ff0$0201010a@proherp1la3xze>

> It varies. Here in Queensland, we don't do daylight savings 
> at all. People are worried that the extra hour of daylight 
> might make their curtains fade :-)

And makes the cows get up earlier for milking....   ;-)
 
> The rest of the country has just started daylight saving, 
> except for Tasmania which starts 4 weeks before everyone 
> else. I guess they really like to save :-)

It's all that clear beer they drink...  <vbg>

> All designed to make life difficult for us poor programmers!

Melbourne has extended it this season until after the
Commonwealth games - so computer wise it's going to be
even more complex - and not just for programmers...  <g>

Scott




From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Mon Nov  7 22:44:03 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Buster)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 04:44:03 +0100
Subject: Relative Speed of different loop structures. [was Finding
	non-common elements]
In-Reply-To: <436D6F04.2040508@tweedly.net>
References: <436D6F04.2040508@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <210BB35E-3690-401E-A42C-E3E4A7DEF2B8@scarlet.be>


On 06 Nov 2005, at 03:48, Alex Tweedly wrote:

-snip completely-


Hi,

I was wondering why your code wasn't working correctly.
Because I liked your idea and wanted to test its speed, I delved in  
and found 2 problems
   - using the <  (or >) operator in this case must be done on  
literals and not on numerics.
      --> a step must be added to make sure both lists are literals
   - to prevent an endless loop:  last line of t2 >= last line of t1

Here it is in working/mint condition:

on mouseup
   put fld "Field"  into t1      ### & cr & "ZZZZZZZZZZ" into t1
   put fld "Field"   into t2     ### & cr & "test line" & cr  &  
"ZZZZZZZZZZ" into t2
   put the millisecs into tStart
   put 1 into i2
   put the number of lines in t2 into limit2

   ### making sure the strings are  non numerics
   if char -1 of t1 is not cr then put cr after t1
   if char -1 of t2 is not cr then put cr after t2
   replace cr with " a"&cr in t1
   replace cr with " a"&cr in t2

   sort t1
   sort t2

   ### swap if necessary
   if line -1 of t1 > line -1 of t2 then
     put t1 into a
     put t2 into t1
     put a into t2
   end if

   split t2 by CR
   put t2[1] into L2
   repeat for each line L1 in t1
     repeat while L2 < L1
       add 1 to i2
       put t2[i2] into L2
     end repeat
     if L2 = L1 then
       -- put L1 & cr after tBoth
       add 1 to i2
       put t2[i2] into L2
     else
       -- put L1 & cr after t1only
     end if
   end repeat
   if i2 < limit2 then
     repeat with i = i2 to limit2-1
       put t2[i] & cr after t2only
     end repeat
   end if
   put "loop" && the millisecs - tStart & cr after msg
end mouseup

Greetings,
Wouter




From biodan at comcast.net  Mon Nov  7 23:46:03 2005
From: biodan at comcast.net (biodan at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 04:46:03 +0000
Subject: Problems with 2.6.1 on Linux - command line error
Message-ID: <110820050446.2976.43702D8B00005D9600000BA02206999735020E0B01070D@comcast.net>

I'm having problems running Revolution from the command
line on RH Enterprise Linux v 4.

Installing from either the .tgz or rpm, i seem to be lacking
linuxgate.so.1. This causes any script run from the command line
to yield an error.

Here is my test script that gives errors on linux when run from
a command line. Mind you, it does run the script, but prepends
the output with the libgdk error. The GUI mostly works fine (with
a notable exception that i will post separately).
Has anyone had a similar problem? I just dont want to be 
encumbered to parse the error msg all the time.
 
 #!/opt/revolution26/revolution.x86
on startup
        put "hello world"
 end startup

 > Could not open libgdk-x11-2.0.so: libgobject-2.0.so: cannot open shared
 > object file: No such file or directory
> hello world


From biodan at comcast.net  Mon Nov  7 23:51:56 2005
From: biodan at comcast.net (biodan at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 04:51:56 +0000
Subject: Problem with Linux 2.6.1 script editor on RH EL 
Message-ID: <110820050451.20847.43702EEC00020BA00000516F2200760180020E0B01070D@comcast.net>

I've noticed that with moderately long object scripts, invariably the
GUI becomes non-responsive to the backspace key. The cursor
jumps unpredictably above or below the current insertion point.

I can forcibly begin typing a new line again if i position the mouse,
hold the left button down and hit the return key.

I also cannot stably select text either, the hilited text just blinks off.

The only solution is to quit Revolution and relaunch.

This is all on Redhat Enterprise Linux.

BTW, i also have an OS X license and none of these issues exist.
Only on the Linux version.


From garretthylltun at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 00:17:42 2005
From: garretthylltun at gmail.com (Garrett R. Hylltun)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 21:17:42 -0800
Subject: Problem with Linux 2.6.1 script editor on RH EL
In-Reply-To: <110820050451.20847.43702EEC00020BA00000516F2200760180020E0B01070D@comcast.net>
References: <110820050451.20847.43702EEC00020BA00000516F2200760180020E0B01070D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20051107211742.708ac671.garretthylltun@gmail.com>

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 04:51:56 +0000
biodan at comcast.net wrote:

> I've noticed that with moderately long object scripts, invariably the
> GUI becomes non-responsive to the backspace key. The cursor
> jumps unpredictably above or below the current insertion point.
> 
> I can forcibly begin typing a new line again if i position the mouse,
> hold the left button down and hit the return key.
> 
> I also cannot stably select text either, the hilited text just blinks off.
> 
> The only solution is to quit Revolution and relaunch.

I have encountered this also, but found the problem, at least on my system, which is Ubuntu 5.10 with Gnome.

My problem was that I was opening and closing other stacks to try and learn how to do things, problem was, that not all of these stacks were getting dumped from the memory, even if I selected "Close and remove from memory" from the IDE menu.

I found out when I opened the Gnome System Monitor and saw a bunch of stacks still listed in the processes.

Only option was to close Rev and start it again.

Not sure this is what's happening to you, but if you're under the same scenario, then you know what's up.

-Garrett


From garretthylltun at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 00:29:07 2005
From: garretthylltun at gmail.com (Garrett R. Hylltun)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 21:29:07 -0800
Subject: Problems with 2.6.1 on Linux - command line error
In-Reply-To: <110820050446.2976.43702D8B00005D9600000BA02206999735020E0B01070D@comcast.net>
References: <110820050446.2976.43702D8B00005D9600000BA02206999735020E0B01070D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20051107212907.2bce2392.garretthylltun@gmail.com>

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 04:46:03 +0000
biodan at comcast.net wrote:

> I'm having problems running Revolution from the command
[snip]
>  > Could not open libgdk-x11-2.0.so: libgobject-2.0.so: cannot open shared
>  > object file: No such file or directory
> > hello world

This may not be a RunRev issue.  Try running some other command line programs or some bash stuff.  See if you get the same error message with them.

I've had this happen before also, but not with just RunRev, but anything I ran on the command line.  It happens when things are installed, uninstalled or failed installation and not all the references to the files have been removed.

Right now, when I run your command line example, I get about 200 lines of error message because the Metacity theme engine says it can't find the pixmaps of the theme I'm using, even though there's no problem.

If you recently installed, uninstalled something, or had a failed installation of something, you might want to check into that and see if you can get the error messages to stop.

-Garrett


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 00:36:38 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 15:36:38 +1000
Subject: Scripting conference stack available - Standalones
In-Reply-To: <000001c5e410$be521ff0$0201010a@proherp1la3xze>
References: <f99b52860511071844k45298eedm14501775f80100a0@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c5e410$be521ff0$0201010a@proherp1la3xze>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511072136n4bdab940n5f5c626a1aef0567@mail.gmail.com>

> Melbourne has extended it this season until after the
> Commonwealth games - so computer wise it's going to be
> even more complex - and not just for programmers...  <g>
>

As far as I can see, computers will just ignore this and change when
they always do. I can't imagine Apple & Microsoft putting out a
special "Commonwealth Games" patch for Melbourne that alters the
daylight-savings change time :-)

Do you know any details of this change? Normally DST ends on the last
Sunday in March. I wonder how long it will extend?

Sarah


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Nov  8 00:40:54 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 21:40:54 -0800
Subject: [Way OT]
Message-ID: <43703A66.3000904@fourthworld.com>

I recently got a USB MP3 player w/voice recording, and it records in WAV 
and a format called ACT.

ACT?!?

It seems mighty efficient, but darned if I can find a spec for it, or a 
conversion utility for OS X (other than the non-AppleScriptable one that 
comes with the device).

Any of you familiar with the ACT audio format?  Know where I can find 
conversion utils and/or a format spec? (if I'm feeling ambitious I may 
consider writing a conversion external)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From scott at proherp.com  Tue Nov  8 00:43:31 2005
From: scott at proherp.com (Scott Kane)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 16:43:31 +1100
Subject: Scripting conference stack available - Standalones
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511072136n4bdab940n5f5c626a1aef0567@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c5e427$5e433f10$0201010a@proherp1la3xze>

> As far as I can see, computers will just ignore this and 
> change when they always do. I can't imagine Apple & Microsoft 
> putting out a special "Commonwealth Games" patch for 
> Melbourne that alters the daylight-savings change time :-)

Yep.  That's what'll confuse some folks.
 
> Do you know any details of this change? Normally DST ends on 
> the last Sunday in March. I wonder how long it will extend?

>From memory the end of April.

Scott




From jmac at consensustech.com  Tue Nov  8 00:59:30 2005
From: jmac at consensustech.com (Jim MacConnell)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 21:59:30 -0800
Subject: Finding non-common elements in two arrays
Message-ID: <BF957EC2.11992%jmac@consensustech.com>

<Meant to send earlier but email issues prevented send.>

Bruce,
I?m sure you?ve had enough input no this but..... Thought a little more
couldn?t hurt. Don't have time to see what changes would be required for
arrays but..... Assume it isn't going to present any difficulties

>From the Rev 2.2 Cookbook;
####################
Problem
You have two containers--variables, fields, or URLs--and you want to list
all the lines of text that are found in one of them, but not in both.

Solution:
function uncommonLines firstList,secondList
 on mouseUp
  get uncommonLines(field "List 1", field "List 2")
  if it is empty then answer "There are no differing lines."
  else answer it
end mouseUp
 
function uncommonLines firstList,secondList
  -- find lines in the first list but not the second list:
  repeat for each line thisLine in firstList
    if thisLine is not in secondList then -- include this line
      put "-" && thisLine & return after uncommon
    end if
  end repeat
  -- find lines in the second list but not the first list:
  repeat for each line thatLine in secondList
    if thatLine is not in firstList then -- include this line
      put "+" && thatLine & return after uncommon
    end if
  end repeat
  if last char of uncommon is return
  then delete last char of uncommon -- strip trailing return
  return uncommon
end uncommonLines


Discussion:
This custom function is called with a statement such as the following:

  put uncommonLines(field "Original",field "New") into myLines

The "uncommonLines" function takes two lists, finds the lines that are in
one list, but not in the other, and marks them with a leading "+" or "-"
depending on which of the two lists the line is found in. (If you start with
the first list, add the lines marked with "+", and delete the lines marked
with "-", you get the second list.)

The handler goes through each list in turn, and builds a third list
consisting of the lines that the lists don't have in common. First, it uses
a repeat control structure to scan each line in the firstList parameter. If
the line doesn't also appear in the secondList parameter, the handler adds
that line to a variable called "uncommon", prepending a "-" to the line with
the && operator. (The && operator places a space between the "-" and the
text of the line for better readability.) It also adds a return character so
that the next line added will start on a new line.

Next, the handler uses a similar repeat loop to scan each line in the
secondList. If the line isn't in the firstList, the handler adds the line to
the "uncommon" variable, prepending a "+" this time.

Since the handler adds a return character to "uncommon" after each uncommon
line it finds, the last character of "uncommon" is a trailing return. The
handler deletes this trailing return and then returns the contents of the
"uncommon" variable.

A note on efficiency:
To make this handler faster, we've used the repeat for each form of the
repeat control structure. A more traditional way to write the first repeat
loop would be like this:

  repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in firstList
    if line x of firstList is not in secondList then
      put "-" && thisLine & return after uncommon
    end if
  end repeat

Many languages support this form of repeat loop, and Transcript does too:
this form will work the same way as the one we used. However, the repeat for
each form is much faster--depending on the circumstances, up to hundreds of
times faster--than the repeat with x = start to end form.
####################

Jim

PS: Hope I'm not violating some copyright terms by copying this on the list.


James H. MacConnell

Consensus Technology, LLC
www.consensustech.com




On Nov 5, 2005, at 2:39 PM, Bruce A. Pokras wrote:

The intersect function will return the common elements of two arrays. Is
there any array methodology that will return the non-common elements of two
arrays? I download a government list each month, and I would like an easy
way to spot the records that are either new or changed. Currently, I use a
repeat structure to go through the old list line-by-line to see if any lines
are not identically found in the new list (using offset), and collect a
third list of any lines in which offset=0. After splitting the old and new
lists into arrays, an "inverse-intersect" function or equivalent would seem
to be a more elegant way of doing this.

Any ideas?

Regards,

Bruce Pokras
Blazing Dawn Software
www.blazingdawn.com
_______________________________________________
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use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
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From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Nov  8 01:29:51 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 07:29:51 +0100
Subject: [Way OT]
In-Reply-To: <43703A66.3000904@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20051108055211.463C2824E46@mail.runrev.com>

http://www.geocities.com/sound_converter/
win32 only (should work in VPC)

http://www.google.com/search?q=sound+converter+act+wav

might help you find what you're looking for...
Mostly PC utilities though...

Who said PC's can't do all a mac can do? ;)

Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Richard Gaskin
> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 6:41 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: [Way OT]
> 
> I recently got a USB MP3 player w/voice recording, and it 
> records in WAV and a format called ACT.
> 
> ACT?!?
> 
> It seems mighty efficient, but darned if I can find a spec 
> for it, or a conversion utility for OS X (other than the 
> non-AppleScriptable one that comes with the device).
> 
> Any of you familiar with the ACT audio format?  Know where I 
> can find conversion utils and/or a format spec? (if I'm 
> feeling ambitious I may consider writing a conversion external)
> 
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Media Corporation
>   ___________________________________________________________
>   Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Nov  8 02:48:12 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 23:48:12 -0800
Subject: Owner of selectedChunk?
Message-ID: <BF95983C.247F6%scott@tactilemedia.com>

How does one determine the stack that contains the field where the
selectedChunk resides?

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Tue Nov  8 02:50:08 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:50:08 +0100
Subject: Owner of selectedChunk?
In-Reply-To: <BF95983C.247F6%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <OF01A12CD7.FC5601B8-ONC12570B3.002B0624-C12570B3.002B0999@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Scott

Try 
  put the selectedfield...

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 08/11/2005 08:48:12:

> How does one determine the stack that contains the field where the
> selectedChunk resides?
> 
> Thanks & Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Nov  8 03:08:26 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 00:08:26 -0800
Subject: Owner of selectedChunk?
In-Reply-To: <OF01A12CD7.FC5601B8-ONC12570B3.002B0624-C12570B3.002B0999@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <BF959CFA.2480D%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, xavier.bury at clearstream.com  wrote:

>> How does one determine the stack that contains the field where the
>> selectedChunk resides?

> Try 
> put the selectedfield...

Thanks Xavier.

Another question [I seem to recall reading about this a long time ago but
have no memory of what the answer was]:

With some text selected in a field in a top stack, is it possible to
maintain focus on/selection of the text when clicking in a palette that
contains a text field?  I'm running into the problem of focus shifting from
the text field in top stack to the text field in the palette.

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Tue Nov  8 03:11:13 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:11:13 +0000
Subject: Load URL returns error 10049
In-Reply-To: <20051108012044.A84CB824F6C@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051108012044.A84CB824F6C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <C5E8A2D1-B795-4E4A-843A-32313CF213E0@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 8 Nov 2005, at 01:52, Dave Beck wrote:

>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I have a rev standalone that has been distributed to a number of  
> users. The
> standalone uses the "load URL" command to get a web page from my  
> server. The
> command works as expected for every user to which I've distributed  
> the stack
> except for one. The load URL command fails for this user and the  
> URLStatus
> function returns "error". Then the libURLErrorData function returns  
> "10049".
> Does anybody have any idea what could be causing this error? The  
> user is
> able to browse the internet with IE without problems before and  
> after the
> error occurs, so I doubt it is a problem with her setup. The online  
> info I
> could find on the error says it is related to opening invalid an IP  
> address:

One thing to check...

Does the user need to connect to the internet through a proxy server?  
Have the user check the Internet Options control panel to see if  
there are any proxy settings. If so, you will need to set the  
httpProxy (see Rev docs) to the appropriate address.

Cheers
Dave


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Tue Nov  8 03:31:56 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 09:31:56 +0100
Subject: Owner of selectedChunk?
In-Reply-To: <BF959CFA.2480D%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <OFA0C5A153.F92EC327-ONC12570B3.002E8DF1-C12570B3.002EDD88@deutsche-boerse.com>

The trick is quite easy. I use it all the time.

For the button that you are going to click (or the owner of the button - 
grp or cd),

here's an example from my textstyleNO2 "Bold" button

local lselection, lstack
on mouseenter
  get the defaultstack,the topstack
  if the tool is "Browse tool" then
    put the selectedchunk into lselection
    if lselection is not empty then
      put the selectedfield into lfield
      put the topstack into lstack
      put lselection && "of" && lstack into lselection
    end if
  else
    put the selobj into lselection
  end if
end mouseenter

on mousedown
  if lselection is not empty then
    if the tool is "Browse tool" then
      select lselection
    else
      put the selobj into lselection
    end if
  end if
end mousedown

on mouseUp
  if lselection is not empty
  then select lselection
 
  if the selectedchunk is empty then exit mouseup
  SetFontStyle (the short name of me), lselection
 
  set the hilite of me to (the short name of me) is in the textstyle of 
the selectedchunk
  if the hilite of me then unhilite btn "Plain"
  select lselection
end mouseUp




 

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 08/11/2005 09:08:26:

> Recently, xavier.bury at clearstream.com  wrote:
> 
> >> How does one determine the stack that contains the field where the
> >> selectedChunk resides?
> 
> > Try 
> > put the selectedfield...
> 
> Thanks Xavier.
> 
> Another question [I seem to recall reading about this a long time ago 
but
> have no memory of what the answer was]:
> 
> With some text selected in a field in a top stack, is it possible to
> maintain focus on/selection of the text when clicking in a palette that
> contains a text field?  I'm running into the problem of focus shifting 
from
> the text field in top stack to the text field in the palette.
> 
> Thanks & Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From alanat30 at canada.com  Tue Nov  8 03:30:12 2005
From: alanat30 at canada.com (alanat30 at canada.com)
Date: Tue,  8 Nov 2005 02:30:12 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Email Changed
Message-ID: <113144055503@mx-5.vancouver.ipapp.com>

Alan Tsang\'s email has changed to alanat30 @ gmail .com
and this canada.com email will no longer be read.

Thank you.


From david at openpartnership.net  Tue Nov  8 04:23:50 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 10:23:50 +0100
Subject: [OTAnn] Feedback - take care!
In-Reply-To: <8573579.311131397870047.JavaMail.tomcat5@slave1.roomity.com>
References: <8573579.311131397870047.JavaMail.tomcat5@slave1.roomity.com>
Message-ID: <BFC24EA5-D16B-4511-AE24-0E5D84878581@openpartnership.net>

Personally - i don't like the feel of this.

Web app on site requires you to trust certificate and therefore  
presumably give you access to all your emails. Marketing to a list  
like this, without including so much as a url, or anything that looks  
like a real name - well to be frank the question to this list is:

     - would you trust a salesman who came into your house, who you  
have never met, never heard of their company, promises you a great  
freebee, flashes a quick business card, and then asks to read all  
your mail?

     - by the way is shenanigans your real name?

On 7 Nov 2005, at 22:11, shenanigans wrote:

> Roomity.com



From esmale at welshpiper.com  Tue Nov  8 08:50:56 2005
From: esmale at welshpiper.com (Erin D. Smale)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 08:50:56 -0500
Subject: Load URL returns error 10049
In-Reply-To: <20051108012044.A84CB824F6C@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051108012044.A84CB824F6C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4370AD40.8050302@welshpiper.com>

Hi Dave,

Based on the Winsock error, it may be that his local host file is 
defining an address that conflicts with the address in your app, or that 
resolves to an address that conflicts with his internal network 
(unlikely but possible).

As a test, have the user open IE and type in the URL directly. If he 
gets the same error, I would check his host file ot see what names are 
being resolved to what addresses. Also, you might want to have him open 
up a command prompt and use 'ping -a <your URL>' to see what address 
your URL it resolves to--if the host file is "interfering," the address 
may not resolve to the actual URL.

It would be helpful to know how he's getting his own IP, too (e.g., is 
it static or assigned via DHCP). Also try to determine what his default 
gateway is (especially if he's on an internal network behind a firewall).

As a temporary workaround, have him try to access the URL through the IP 
address; this skips DNS or host file name resolution and may offer a 
clue as to what's going on. Let us know what you find.

Cheers,

-- Erin

Check out The Chimera RPG:
http://www.welshpiper.com



Dave Beck wrote:

> 
>
>Hi,
>
> 
>
>I have a rev standalone that has been distributed to a number of users. The
>standalone uses the "load URL" command to get a web page from my server. The
>command works as expected for every user to which I've distributed the stack
>except for one. The load URL command fails for this user and the URLStatus
>function returns "error". Then the libURLErrorData function returns "10049".
>Does anybody have any idea what could be causing this error? The user is
>able to browse the internet with IE without problems before and after the
>error occurs, so I doubt it is a problem with her setup. The online info I
>could find on the error says it is related to opening invalid an IP address:
>
> 
>
>Winsock error 10049 typically occurs when you attempt to create a socket
>with an address not on this machine.  For example if you have MDaemon
>running on a machine with an IP address of 192.168.0.1 and you attempt to
>bind MDaemon to 192.168.0.100 you will receive this error message.
>
> 
>
>In truth that doesn't make a great deal of sense to me, but maybe there is
>somebody on this list that can shed a little light on the situation?
>
> 
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
> 
>
>Dave Beck
>
> 
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
>  
>

-- 

-- Check out The Chimera RPG: http://www.welshpiper.com


From macstacks at earthlink.net  Tue Nov  8 09:10:34 2005
From: macstacks at earthlink.net (Bruce A. Pokras)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 09:10:34 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Re: Finding non-common elements in two arrays
Message-ID: <a06110400bf965ebf689f@[192.168.1.102]>

>
>Subject: Re: Finding non-common elements in two arrays
>
>Bruce A. Pokras wrote:
>
>>The intersect function will return the common elements of two 
>>arrays. Is there any array methodology that will return the 
>>non-common elements of two arrays? I download a government list 
>>each month, and I would like an easy way to spot the records that 
>>are either new or changed. Currently, I use a repeat structure to 
>>go through the old list line-by-line to see if any lines are not 
>>identically found in the new list (using offset), and collect a 
>>third list of any lines in which offset=0. After splitting the old 
>>and new lists into arrays, an "inverse-intersect" function or 
>>equivalent would seem to be a more elegant way of doing this.
>>
>>Any ideas?
>

Thanks for everyone's the suggestions. I put Alex Tweedly's array 
script (see below) to the test against a line-by-line "offset" script 
("repeat for each line n in list1" etc.). The lists were text files 
representing two consectutive months of a 20,000 line government 
database with 11 fields per line. The idea is to see which records in 
the new list have been added to or changed from the previous list.

There was simply no comparison between the methods. It took all of 
18-19 seconds to make the comparison using Alex's method (I ran it 
twice to make sure I wasn't imagining it). Using the line-by-line 
offset method, it took 14 minutes! A comparison in MS Word of the 
results of each method showed them to be identical.

I never would have believed that the first steps of going through 
each list and creating complete copies of them with the tab & 1 or 2 
could occur so quickly. The incredible speed of those two steps 
(creating two new 20,000 line lists) is really what makes this thing 
work.

I will next check out Wouter's more sophisticated version, since I 
may have a use for the additional functionality of that one, also.

Thanks very much Alex and Wouter, and thanks to everyone else who 
repsonded to my question.

Regards,

Bruce Pokras
Blazing Dawn Software
www.blazingdawn.com

>
>>on mouseUp
>>    
>>     put fld "F1" into t1
>>     repeat for each line L in t1
>>         put L & TAB & "1" & cr after tA1
>>     end repeat
>>     split tA1 by CR and TAB
>>     
>>     put fld "F2" into t1
>>     repeat for each line L in t1
>>         put L & TAB & "2" & cr after tA2
>>     end repeat
>>     split tA2 by CR and TAB
>>    
>>     union tA1 with tA2
>>     combine tA1 with CR and TAB
>>       filter tA1 with ("*"&TAB&"2")
>>       put tA1 into fld F3
>>
>>end mouseUp
>>
>
>


From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Nov  8 09:22:16 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 14:22:16 +0000
Subject: Relative Speed of different loop structures. [was
 Finding	non-common elements]
In-Reply-To: <210BB35E-3690-401E-A42C-E3E4A7DEF2B8@scarlet.be>
References: <436D6F04.2040508@tweedly.net>
	<210BB35E-3690-401E-A42C-E3E4A7DEF2B8@scarlet.be>
Message-ID: <4370B498.6080901@tweedly.net>

Buster wrote:

>
> On 06 Nov 2005, at 03:48, Alex Tweedly wrote:
>
> -snip completely-
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I was wondering why your code wasn't working correctly.
> Because I liked your idea and wanted to test its speed, I delved in  
> and found 2 problems
>   - using the <  (or >) operator in this case must be done on  
> literals and not on numerics.
>      --> a step must be added to make sure both lists are literals
>   - to prevent an endless loop:  last line of t2 >= last line of t1
>
> Here it is in working/mint condition:
>
<snip>

>   ### making sure the strings are  non numerics
>   if char -1 of t1 is not cr then put cr after t1
>   if char -1 of t2 is not cr then put cr after t2
>   replace cr with " a"&cr in t1
>   replace cr with " a"&cr in t2
>
Duh. I knew there had to be some easy way to avoid the numeric 
comparisons - but just couldn't think of it.

Blindingly obvious now I see it. Thank you !

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 05/11/2005



From jhurley at infostations.com  Tue Nov  8 10:17:28 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 07:17:28 -0800
Subject: Scripting conference stack available - Standalones
In-Reply-To: <20051108073609.43293824FF4@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051108073609.43293824FF4@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230916bf9670452b77@[69.19.167.166]>

>
>Message: 3
>Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 07:10:37 +1000
>From: Sarah Reichelt <sarah.reichelt at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Scripting conference stack available - Standalones
>To: jacque at hyperactivesw.com,	How to use Revolution
>	<use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Message-ID:
>	<f99b52860511071310p21399854le031e78ee5e0a44d at mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>>  The scripting conference will be held at 1131814800 seconds. To convert
>>  this to your own local time and date:
>>
>>     get "1131814800";convert it to system date and time;put it
>>
>
>So, you've gone on to daylight-savings time. Now it's at 3am my time
>instead of 2am. I'm having trouble deciding if that's better or worse
>:-)
>
>Yours sleepily,
>Sarah


Sarah,

You have Conrad Adenauer to thank for daylight saving time.

And on the issue of standalones, would it be helpful if Run Rev made 
their Installer available? It is very attractive.

Jim




From John.Thornton at gb.mahle.com  Tue Nov  8 10:22:19 2005
From: John.Thornton at gb.mahle.com (Thornton, John)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 15:22:19 -0000
Subject: Run/Edit mode
Message-ID: <2AC7D7ECB6CC2C4D912B478A066E802270CA17@ukcoswnhm0002.uk.cosworth-technology.local>

Dear People,
I run Linux Redhat version of Revolution Studio version 2.6.1.  When I try to build a stack and cards, the first card is to ask for info from the user.  This works if I save the stack, exit the stack and reload the stack into Revolution and press the Run mode button.  However, I cannot get the damn thing to run from the beginning and ask the user for the required info, simply by switching from Edit mode to Run mode.  Am I missing a vital step, or the switch from Edit mode to Run mode not working properly? 

Regards

JohnT



From esmale at welshpiper.com  Tue Nov  8 10:26:17 2005
From: esmale at welshpiper.com (Erin D. Smale)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 10:26:17 -0500
Subject: Scripting conference stack available - Standalones
In-Reply-To: <p06230916bf9670452b77@[69.19.167.166]>
References: <20051108073609.43293824FF4@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230916bf9670452b77@[69.19.167.166]>
Message-ID: <4370C399.9050801@welshpiper.com>

I think an installer would help usability, since end users (on the PC 
side, at least) typically expect some setup or install routine to copy 
files, create directories, and place icons in the appropriate places.

-- Erin

Check out The Chimera RPG:
http://www.welshpiper.com



Jim Hurley wrote:

> And on the issue of standalones, would it be helpful if Run Rev made 
> their Installer available? It is very attractive.



From alessandro at system-ini.it  Thu Nov  3 08:35:23 2005
From: alessandro at system-ini.it (Alessandro Pisoni)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 14:35:23 +0100
Subject: serios problem with sql command
Message-ID: <D43D5D91-93D0-4D5F-A25A-59CB2277E270@system-ini.it>


Bye i have an serios problem with the command revExecuteSQL !!! not  
work into my db sql.

get revOpenDatabase 
("MySQL","localhost","Gestionale","alessandropisoni","") // 
alessandropisoni is administrator fullcontrol
revExecuteSQL it,"INSERT INTO Anagrafica (id, Codice) values (NULL, 
22)" // not write in my db and in my table why?

i use now mysql 5 server and mac os x 10.4.3
I can to do the command sql SELECT and the command   get  
revQueryDatabase(it,"SELECT * FROM Anagrafica") work ok very well!


Cordiali saluti
Alessandro Pisoni

======================
System.ini
Via Grandi 5
20062 Cassano d'Adda (MI)
Tel. 0363-361487 Fax 1782260060 Cell. 335-440150
URL: www.system-ini.it   email: Info at system-ini.it



From dave at crystalpiersw.com  Fri Nov  4 21:20:01 2005
From: dave at crystalpiersw.com (Dave Beck)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 23:20:01 -0300
Subject: Load URL returns error 10049
In-Reply-To: <20051104171548.5241B825325@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20051105014832.C5B108253C8@mail.runrev.com>


Hi,

I have a rev standalone that has been distributed to a number of users. The
standalone uses the "load URL" command to get a web page from my server. The
command works as expected for every user to which I've distributed the stack
except for one. The load URL command fails for this user and the URLStatus
function returns "error". Then the libURLErrorData function returns "10049".
Does anybody have any idea what could be causing this error? The user is
able to browse the internet with IE without problems before and after the
error occurs, so I doubt it is a problem with her setup. The online info I
could find on the error says it is related to opening invalid an IP address:

Winsock error 10049 typically occurs when you attempt to create a socket
with an address not on this machine.  For example if you have MDaemon
running on a machine with an IP address of 192.168.0.1 and you attempt to
bind MDaemon to 192.168.0.100 you will receive this error message.

In truth that doesn't make a great deal of sense to me, but maybe there is
somebody on this list that can send a little light on the situation?

Thanks in advance.

David Beck



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Sat Nov  5 05:25:08 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 05:25:08 -0500
Subject: Sound in Linux
Message-ID: <web-338684678@mail.maclaunch.com>

Having spent some time on the first cycle of my EFL system
development - making the stacks using my licensed version
of Dreamcard - I popped them onto my "new" PC (PIII, 600
MHz, 128 MB RAM - Kubuntu 5.10) - A BIG THANK YOU TO NOVELL
for FREE RR 2.2.1 - and when I clicked on the button "Brown
Cow" instead of hearing my growly voice saying "Brown Cow"
(No rocket science round here - just English for 6 year-old
Bulgarians) I heard something very like a cat being run
over by a truck . . .

Hard science: recorded the sound on a Mac using the Sound
Studio program that came bundled with the 10.2 install -
Mono, 44.000, AIFF

I suspect this is not the right format for Linux, but can
find nothing in either RR or MC documentation.

More rests on this than my poxy little language school as
the resulting programs (standalones) for Linux will be
uploaded to Ubuntu for distribution in Africa (Mind you, I
can't help feeling sorry for the poor Africans having to
put up with my Brown Cows).

I hope, hope, hope that I can get sound to behave in Linux
without resort to the superannuated and crappy xanim. And,
Mike Talluto, as my name is mud in RR circles (!!!) I
cannot get into Bugzilla, etc. and say my piece about movie
files and so forth with RR/MC in Linux.

I suppose the bottom line is that I shall have to have a
very dirty weekend embedding every possible sound
configuration I can think of in a stack on the Mac and them
messing around with it on the Kubuntu PC - although a
little voice tells me that this  is rather inefficient.

I would be extremely grateful for any help in this area.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From dave at crystalpiersw.com  Sun Nov  6 11:32:35 2005
From: dave at crystalpiersw.com (Dave Beck)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 13:32:35 -0300
Subject: Load URL returns error 10049
In-Reply-To: <20051104171548.5241B825325@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20051106160046.5805682509E@mail.runrev.com>


Hi,

I have a rev standalone that has been distributed to a number of users. The
standalone uses the "load URL" command to get a web page from my server. The
command works as expected for every user to which I've distributed the stack
except for one. The load URL command fails for this user and the URLStatus
function returns "error". Then the libURLErrorData function returns "10049".
Does anybody have any idea what could be causing this error? The user is
able to browse the internet with IE without problems before and after the
error occurs, so I doubt it is a problem with her setup. The online info I
could find on the error says it is related to opening invalid an IP address:

Winsock error 10049 typically occurs when you attempt to create a socket
with an address not on this machine.  For example if you have MDaemon
running on a machine with an IP address of 192.168.0.1 and you attempt to
bind MDaemon to 192.168.0.100 you will receive this error message.

In truth that doesn't make a great deal of sense to me, but maybe there is
somebody on this list that can shed a little light on the situation?

Thanks in advance.

David Beck



From bwooden at gmail.com  Sun Nov  6 13:52:37 2005
From: bwooden at gmail.com (woodywoodpecker)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 19:52:37 +0100
Subject: Access Address Book or iCal
In-Reply-To: <55AD96BF-5DE0-4BDA-8DDD-250205ECA386@openpartnership.net>
References: <BF9108E6.3048%paulclaude@postino.it>
	<p06230925bf91354bd334@[192.168.1.104]>
	<55AD96BF-5DE0-4BDA-8DDD-250205ECA386@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <9A7DE8EA-5920-43B1-B1D1-46FE21661C9F@gmail.com>



Do you use Applescript or have you find a way to read the  
"AddressBook.data"??


Op 4-nov-2005, om 18:29 heeft David Bovill het volgende geschreven:

> On 4 Nov 2005, at 16:58, Stephen Barncard wrote:
>
>> iCal uses an industry standard format - and it's XML. The files  
>> live in the library somewhere...
>
> Not quite - iCal uses the vCal standard. Recent version of iCal  
> uses XML based pList files to created indexes of the wierdly named  
> files - but that is a minor point. I am working on both cVard, vCal  
> and Apple Address Book integration over the last week - should be  
> finished the first beta on Wednesday - any testers?
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Nov  8 11:25:41 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:25:41 -0800
Subject: Owner of selectedChunk?
In-Reply-To: <BF959CFA.2480D%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF959CFA.2480D%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <1CEC6790-B79E-4DB5-9970-FBCDA0FE9542@mangomultimedia.com>

On Nov 8, 2005, at 12:08 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:
> With some text selected in a field in a top stack, is it possible to
> maintain focus on/selection of the text when clicking in a palette  
> that
> contains a text field?  I'm running into the problem of focus  
> shifting from
> the text field in top stack to the text field in the palette.

Right now you have to script around it.  It seems there should be a  
property of a stack that would return the name of the field that has  
focus for that stack.

Here is some code I use in a library stack for tracking the last  
active field of a stack.  I like to mark the field with a light grey  
background when it is suspended and restore the background to empty  
when the stack resumes.  This code also creates two getProps that  
return the selectedChunk and selectedField for a stack.  In order for  
the library to track fields in a stack you must set the uWindow 
["Name"] prop of the stack to some value.  Maybe this will help.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com



local sWindowsA

/**
* When a stack is suspended we save the active field (if any) and  
hilite the
* text with a light grey.
*/
on suspendStack
	local tWindowName
	
	if the uWindow["Name"] of the owner of the target is not empty then
		put the uWindow["Name"] of this stack into tWindowName
		if selectedField() is not empty AND exists(long id of the owner of  
selectedField()) then
			put long id of the owner of selectedField() into tObj
			repeat while word 1 of tObj <> "stack"
				put the owner of tObj into tObj
			end repeat
			
			if the short name of tObj is the short name of the owner of the  
target then
				put selectedChunk() into sWindowsA[tWindowName,"activechunk"]
				
				if not the listBehavior of selectedField() then
					set the backgroundColor of selectedChunk() to "200,200,200"
					select empty
				end if
			end if
		else
			put empty into sWindowsA[tWindowName,"activechunk"]
		end if
	end if
	
	pass suspendStack
end suspendStack


on resumeStack
	local tWindowName
	
	if the uWindow["Name"] of the owner of the target is not empty then
		put the uWindow["Name"] of this stack into tWindowName
		
		if sWindowsA[tWindowName,"activechunk"]	is not empty then
			set the backgroundColor of sWindowsA[tWindowName,"activechunk"] to  
empty
			select sWindowsA[tWindowName,"activechunk"]
		end if
	end if

	pass resumeStack
end resumeStack


/**
* Returns the short name of the last active field of a stack.
*
*/
getProp uStackFocusedField
	local tWindowName
	
	if selectedField() is not empty AND exists(long id of the owner of  
selectedField()) then
		put long id of the owner of selectedField() into tObj
		repeat while word 1 of tObj <> "stack"
			put the owner of tObj into tObj
		end repeat
		
		if the short name of tObj is the short name of the target then
			return short name of selectedField()
		end if
	end if
	
	if the uWindow["Name"] of the target is not empty then
		put the uWindow["Name"] of the target into tWindowName
		if sWindowsA[tWindowName,"activechunk"] is not empty then
			get word -2 to -1 of sWindowsA[tWindowName,"activechunk"]
			return short name of it
		end if
	end if
	
	return empty
end uStackFocusedField


/**
* Returns the active chunk of a stack as returned by selectedChunk().
*
*/
getProp uStackFocusedChunk
	local tWindowName
	
	if selectedField() is not empty AND exists(long id of the owner of  
selectedField()) then
		put long id of the owner of selectedField() into tObj
		repeat while word 1 of tObj <> "stack"
			put the owner of tObj into tObj
		end repeat
		
		if the short name of tObj is the short name of the target then
			return selectedChunk()
		end if
	end if
	
	if the uWindow["Name"] of the target is not empty then
		put the uWindow["Name"] of the target into tWindowName
		if sWindowsA[tWindowName,"activechunk"] is not empty then
			return sWindowsA[tWindowName,"activechunk"]
		end if
	end if
	
	return empty
end uStackFocusedChunk




From revdan at danshafer.com  Tue Nov  8 12:07:02 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 09:07:02 -0800
Subject: Run/Edit mode
In-Reply-To: <2AC7D7ECB6CC2C4D912B478A066E802270CA17@ukcoswnhm0002.uk.cosworth-technology.local>
References: <2AC7D7ECB6CC2C4D912B478A066E802270CA17@ukcoswnhm0002.uk.cosworth-technology.local>
Message-ID: <BB66093C-74E7-4C97-9592-4AA9BD818925@danshafer.com>

What event triggers the request for the user to input the  
information? That event appears not to be triggered when you simply  
switch from edit mode to run mode, which would figure because that  
action doesn't trigger an event we usually trap for.

Assuming, e.g., that your stack asks for this information in an  
openStack handler, then after you switch to run mode, type into the  
message box "send 'openStack' to stack 'foo'" (and you can leave out  
the stack if it's the only one in memory or you're certain it's the  
topstack.

All Rev actions occur in response to events. Your stack is being  
polite, waiting for an event before it does anything!


On Nov 8, 2005, at 7:22 AM, Thornton, John wrote:

> Dear People,
> I run Linux Redhat version of Revolution Studio version 2.6.1.   
> When I try to build a stack and cards, the first card is to ask for  
> info from the user.  This works if I save the stack, exit the stack  
> and reload the stack into Revolution and press the Run mode  
> button.  However, I cannot get the damn thing to run from the  
> beginning and ask the user for the required info, simply by  
> switching from Edit mode to Run mode.  Am I missing a vital step,  
> or the switch from Edit mode to Run mode not working properly?
>
> Regards
>
> JohnT
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From dam-pro.girard at laposte.net  Tue Nov  8 12:09:37 2005
From: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net (Girard Damien)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 18:09:37 +0100
Subject: Problems with 2.6.1 on Linux - command line error
In-Reply-To: <110820050446.2976.43702D8B00005D9600000BA02206999735020E0B01070D@comcast.net>
References: <110820050446.2976.43702D8B00005D9600000BA02206999735020E0B01070D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1131469777.5841.13.camel@White-Side.Workgroup>

Hi,

The error is that runrev doesn't find GTK+ library (since Revolution
2.5, the native look and feel under linux is GTK+, but he doesn't work
at all on my computer with a lot of linux distrobution).

For remove this error message, you must make some symbolic link.

Runrev try to look at these file:
/usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so
/usr/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.so
/usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so

Under Redhat linux, these files are in /usr/lib, under
Suse, /opt/gnome/lib.

Under Suse Linux 10, I have got these file, and I have done these
commands.
ln -sf /opt/gnome/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so
ln -sf /opt/gnome/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so
ln -sf /opt/gnome/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.so.0 /usr/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.so

You can also set these environment variable.
  REV_GDK_PATH
  REV_GTK_PATH
  REV_GOBJECT_PATH

And after, Runrev doesn't work, because he find GTK+ library. :(

If runrev work after set these link (or variable), you have got luck,
else, please confirm my bug report here:
http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=2667

Regards,

---------
Damien Girard
Email: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net


Le mardi 08 novembre 2005 ? 04:46 +0000, biodan at comcast.net a ?crit :
> I'm having problems running Revolution from the command
> line on RH Enterprise Linux v 4.
> 
> Installing from either the .tgz or rpm, i seem to be lacking
> linuxgate.so.1. This causes any script run from the command line
> to yield an error.
> 
> Here is my test script that gives errors on linux when run from
> a command line. Mind you, it does run the script, but prepends
> the output with the libgdk error. The GUI mostly works fine (with
> a notable exception that i will post separately).
> Has anyone had a similar problem? I just dont want to be 
> encumbered to parse the error msg all the time.
>  
>  #!/opt/revolution26/revolution.x86
> on startup
>         put "hello world"
>  end startup
> 
>  > Could not open libgdk-x11-2.0.so: libgobject-2.0.so: cannot open shared
>  > object file: No such file or directory
> > hello world
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> MI104 bytes



From alanat30 at canada.com  Tue Nov  8 11:36:41 2005
From: alanat30 at canada.com (alanat30 at canada.com)
Date: Tue,  8 Nov 2005 10:36:41 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Email Changed
Message-ID: <113146974801@mx-5.vancouver.ipapp.com>

Alan Tsang\'s email has changed to alanat30 @ gmail .com
and this canada.com email will no longer be read.

Thank you.


From dam-pro.girard at laposte.net  Tue Nov  8 12:16:43 2005
From: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net (Girard Damien)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 18:16:43 +0100
Subject: Fonts and Revolution
In-Reply-To: <20051107161111.9c1f8b0a.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
References: <BF928FD5.2F423%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<8C7B09564D0C3F7-158C-3546@FWM-R05.sysops.aol.com>
	<20051107161111.9c1f8b0a.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1131470203.5841.18.camel@White-Side.Workgroup>

Runrev doesn't support AntiAliasing font under linux.

Please vote for the AntiAliasing for support under linux.
http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1364

I have opened a lot of bug reports, enhancement request, please
vote/confirm them if you encounter one or more of these bugs. (the link
is a bit big).

http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/buglist.cgi?short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&product=Revolution&component=About+Screen&component=Align&component=Animation+Manager&component=Application+Browser&component=Audio&component=Buttons&component=CGI&component=Cursors&component=Database+Query+Manager+or+database+properties&component=Date+and+Time&component=Default+Patterns&component=Display+of+icons+in+the+IDE&component=Documentation&component=Engine+Specific+Issues&component=Fields&component=Find+and+Replace&component=Geometry+Manager&component=Icon+Chooser&component=Image+and+Object+Library&component=Images&component=License+Revolution&component=Mac+Specific+Issues&component=Menu+Manager&component=Menubar&component=Message+Box&component=OS+Crash+Logs&component=Page+Setup&component=Paint+Tools&component=Palettes&component=PlugIn+Editor&component=Preferences&component=Printing+problems&component=Profile+issues&component=Quicktime&component=Replicate&component=Report+Builder&component=Revolution+Externals&component=Revolution+Online&component=Revolution+Support&component=Rulers&component=Script+compiler&component=Script+Debug+Mode&component=Script+Editor&component=Sockets&component=Standalone+Builder&component=Standalones&component=Startup+and+splash+screen&component=Tables&component=Text+Styles&component=Tools+Palette&component=Transcript+Language&component=Unicode+and+Localization&component=Unix+Specific+Issues&component=Unknown%2FDoes+not+exist+yet&component=URL+access+commands+%28libURL%29&component=User+Interface+Libraries&component=Windows+Specific+Issues&component=XML-RPC&version=2.0.2&version=2.0.3&version=2.1&version=2.1+B2&version=2.1+B3&version=2.1+RC1&version=2.1.1+RC1&version=2.1.2&version=2.2&version=2.2+A1&version=2.2+B1&version=2.2+RC1&version=2.2+RC2&version=2.2.1&version=2.3+A1&version=2.3+A2&version=2.3+A3&version=2.3+A6&version=2.5&version=2.5+B1&version=2.5+B2&version=2.5+RC1&version=2.5+RC2&version=2.5.1&version=2.5.1+A2&version=2.5.1+A3&version=2.5.1+A4&version=2.5.1+RC2&version=2.6&version=2.6.1&version=2.6.1+DP1&version=2.6.1+DP2&version=2.6.1+DP3&target_milestone=---&target_milestone=2.1&target_milestone=2.1.2&target_milestone=2.2&target_milestone=2.3&target_milestone=2.4&target_milestone=2.5&target_milestone=2.6&target_milestone=Future&long_desc_type=allwordssubstr&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=PENDING&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=CLOSED&resolution=FIXED&resolution=NOT_A_BUG&resolution=ISNT_FIXABLE&resolution=DUPLICATE&resolution=CANT_REPRODUCE&resolution=MOVED&resolution=---&bug_severity=blocker&bug_severity=critical&bug_severity=major&bug_severity=normal&bug_severity=minor&bug_severity=trivial&bug_severity=enhancement&priority=P1&priority=P2&priority=P3&priority=P4&priority=P5&rep_platform=All&rep_platform=DEC&rep_platform=HP&rep_platform=Macintosh&rep_platform=PC&rep_platform=SGI&rep_platform=Sun&rep_platform=Other&op_sys=Linux%2FUnix&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&changedin=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Bug+Number&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=

Regards,

Damien Girard
Email: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net

Le lundi 07 novembre 2005 ? 16:11 -0800, Garrett R. Hylltun a ?crit :
> An update to my font issue...
> 
> Ran some test apps on Windows ME and then Windows 98 via Wine on linux, and the font antialiasing works fine.
> 
> So this must be an issue localized to Linux/Gnome/Kde.
> 
> Thanks to everyone for the help.  :-)
> 
> -Garrett
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Tue Nov  8 12:17:53 2005
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 18:17:53 +0100
Subject: ANN: Another collection of Pattern Art uploaded
Message-ID: <4370DDC1.4000704@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

On Sun, 6 Nov 2005, mcdomi at free.fr (Dom) wrote:

> >> Go to <http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia> and scroll down to "Pattern 
> Art Two".
>
> very nice!
> maybe nicer than serie 1...
>
> by the way, I found a little problem  (maybe, it's a feature ;-)):
> it seems to me that there is a "one pixel" border
> very visible, for instance, as I use your patterns to make a screen
> backdrop (also known as "wallpaper" by windoze users ;-))
>
> I remember that there was a little ago a debate about this, no?
>
> -- Revolutionario


Sorry for the "border". This was indeed already mentioned earlier when I 
presented the first collection. It is not a feature, but a deficiency 
caused by a wrong setting of the rect values for exporting the image 
(which actually is a "field"). Meanwhile, until I fix this, you could 
possibly crop the border of the jpgs with a photo tool?

Yesterday I added 10 more images at the beginning of "Pattern Art Two". 
One of my favorite images is the third one, the blue mountain landscape 
with clouds and stars.

Best regards,

Wilhelm Sanke




From dleyanna at rtl.org  Tue Nov  8 12:22:18 2005
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 12:22:18 -0500
Subject: Synchronization puzzle.
Message-ID: <4370DECA.3090208@rtl.org>

Alex;

I was searching the archives looking for some information about a PIM 
lib or stack that may be available and noticed your post about 
syncronization issues you were looking at. Did you ever finish that 
addressbook app? would you be interested in sharing or selling it?

We need to develop a PIM and an address book is part of such an application.

We probally will be using PostgreSQL on a server with SQLLite on the 
desktops that will need to sync once connected to the network or via the 
internet.

Thanks in advance

Dave LeYanna


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Nov  8 12:23:58 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 11:23:58 -0600
Subject: [OT] Daylight Savings (Was Re: Scripting conference stack
 available - Standalones)
In-Reply-To: <p06230916bf9670452b77@[69.19.167.166]>
Message-ID: <BF963B4E.2F66F%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/8/05 9:17 AM, "Jim Hurley" <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:

>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 07:10:37 +1000
>> From: Sarah Reichelt <sarah.reichelt at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Scripting conference stack available - Standalones
>> To: jacque at hyperactivesw.com, How to use Revolution
>> <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> Message-ID:
>> <f99b52860511071310p21399854le031e78ee5e0a44d at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> 
>>>  The scripting conference will be held at 1131814800 seconds. To convert
>>>  this to your own local time and date:
>>> 
>>>     get "1131814800";convert it to system date and time;put it
>>> 
>> 
>> So, you've gone on to daylight-savings time. Now it's at 3am my time
>> instead of 2am. I'm having trouble deciding if that's better or worse
>> :-)
>> 
>> Yours sleepily,
>> Sarah
> 
> 
> Sarah,
> 
> You have Conrad Adenauer to thank for daylight saving time.

Actually, I thought it was Benjamin Franklin...

  http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/franklin.html

or did he just muse about it?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From userev at canelasoftware.com  Tue Nov  8 13:28:57 2005
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 10:28:57 -0800
Subject: Fonts and Revolution
In-Reply-To: <1131470203.5841.18.camel@White-Side.Workgroup>
References: <BF928FD5.2F423%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<8C7B09564D0C3F7-158C-3546@FWM-R05.sysops.aol.com>
	<20051107161111.9c1f8b0a.garretthylltun@gmail.com>
	<1131470203.5841.18.camel@White-Side.Workgroup>
Message-ID: <A899A506-C9E8-47EC-8BF3-B3F392207C25@canelasoftware.com>


On Nov 8, 2005, at 9:16 AM, Girard Damien wrote:

> I have opened a lot of bug reports, enhancement request, please
> vote/confirm them if you encounter one or more of these bugs. (the  
> link
> is a bit big).


That has to be a world record long link.  Believe it or not, it  
worked just fine over here.  Wow!  Oh yeah...I'll take a gander.


Mark Talluto
-- 
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From RGould8 at aol.com  Tue Nov  8 13:45:34 2005
From: RGould8 at aol.com (RGould8 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 13:45:34 EST
Subject: Slow screen refresh in Windows
Message-ID: <8.7494095f.30a24c4e@aol.com>

I did some digging around in the archives, and I see that some folks are 
having this same problem, but in my case, I haven't read a solution:

I need to be able to click on a button, and have an image "shrink", 
width-wise, until the width is zero and the image disappears:

repeat with x = 300 down to 0 step -10
    set the width of image "screenshot" to x
    set the loc of image "screenshot" to 300,300
end repeat


This code works perfectly on a Mac, but in Windows, I get a watch-icon for 2 
seconds, and then the image chuggs and chuggs until it disappears.   The 
performance is much much worse in Windows.

I've tried putting an unlock screen in the loop, and I've tried the "wait 0 
with message" technique.   What other way is there to accomplish this effect 
and make it work smoothly in Windows?   The image is nothing special - - - just 
a small 300x 150 BMP file.


From mark at maseurope.net  Tue Nov  8 14:24:42 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 19:24:42 +0000
Subject: Slow screen refresh in Windows
In-Reply-To: <8.7494095f.30a24c4e@aol.com>
References: <8.7494095f.30a24c4e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <A324EBA6-5638-4DC6-B315-2E93AB570A83@maseurope.net>

Sometimes the 'lock messages' command can help...

Cheers,

Mark

On 8 Nov 2005, at 18:45, RGould8 at aol.com wrote:

> I did some digging around in the archives, and I see that some  
> folks are
> having this same problem, but in my case, I haven't read a solution:
>
> I need to be able to click on a button, and have an image "shrink",
> width-wise, until the width is zero and the image disappears:
>
> repeat with x = 300 down to 0 step -10
>     set the width of image "screenshot" to x
>     set the loc of image "screenshot" to 300,300
> end repeat
>
>
> This code works perfectly on a Mac, but in Windows, I get a watch- 
> icon for 2
> seconds, and then the image chuggs and chuggs until it  
> disappears.   The
> performance is much much worse in Windows.
>
> I've tried putting an unlock screen in the loop, and I've tried the  
> "wait 0
> with message" technique.   What other way is there to accomplish  
> this effect
> and make it work smoothly in Windows?   The image is nothing  
> special - - - just
> a small 300x 150 BMP file.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Nov  8 14:36:16 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 11:36:16 -0800
Subject: [OTAnn] Feedback - take care!
In-Reply-To: <BFC24EA5-D16B-4511-AE24-0E5D84878581@openpartnership.net>
References: <8573579.311131397870047.JavaMail.tomcat5@slave1.roomity.com>
	<BFC24EA5-D16B-4511-AE24-0E5D84878581@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <563558777.20051108113616@ahsoftware.net>

David-

Tuesday, November 8, 2005, 1:23:50 AM, you wrote:

> Personally - i don't like the feel of this.

> Web app on site requires you to trust certificate and therefore  
> presumably give you access to all your emails. Marketing to a list  
> like this, without including so much as a url, or anything that looks
> like a real name - well to be frank the question to this list is:

>      - would you trust a salesman who came into your house, who you
> have never met, never heard of their company, promises you a great  
> freebee, flashes a quick business card, and then asks to read all  
> your mail?

AFAIK this is the first time this list has been hijacked. They seem to
have found a slick way to deliver broadband ads while providing list
content in approximately a third of the screen. (this from the demo,
since I refused to load their app onto any of my systems) No contact
info on the web site other than for advertisers. Listmom?

>      - by the way is shenanigans your real name?

That would be:

   Cekvenich, Vic  cekvenich at gmail.com
    5521 Greenville
    Dallas, TX 75206
    US
    917 825 3035

    Info from the whois server at
    http://www.betterwhois.com/bwhois.cgi?domain=roomity.com&x=0&y=0

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net





From jhurley at infostations.com  Tue Nov  8 15:07:21 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 12:07:21 -0800
Subject: [OT] Daylight Savings (Was Re: Scripting conference stack
In-Reply-To: <20051108180003.B8FD4824FA9@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051108180003.B8FD4824FA9@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230917bf96b54b75a4@[69.19.167.166]>

>
>  >
>>  Sarah,
>>
>>  You have Conrad Adenauer to thank for daylight saving time.
>
>Actually, I thought it was Benjamin Franklin...
>
>   http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/franklin.html
>
>or did he just muse about it?
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software
>Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>

Ken,

That line, attributing daylight savings time to Adenauer, works 
better if you HEAR it rather than read it. :)

Jim


From mcdomi at free.fr  Tue Nov  8 15:22:11 2005
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 21:22:11 +0100
Subject: ANN: Another collection of Pattern Art uploaded
In-Reply-To: <4370DDC1.4000704@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <1h5q8be.65aiya18z691cM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Wilhelm Sanke <sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de> wrote:

> Sorry for the "border". This was indeed already mentioned earlier when I
> presented the first collection. It is not a feature, but a deficiency
> caused by a wrong setting of the rect values for exporting the image 
> (which actually is a "field"). Meanwhile, until I fix this, you could
> possibly crop the border of the jpgs with a photo tool?

No harm :-)
my Photoshop 5 LE (runs under Classic) did the trick, i.e. eliminated
one pixel on top, left and right margin (seems good for the bottom
margin)

> Yesterday I added 10 more images at the beginning of "Pattern Art Two".
> One of my favorite images is the third one, the blue mountain landscape
> with clouds and stars.

Thanks! I will go see them

by the way (again) I heard that jpeg works better if the size of the
picture is a multiple of 8... (unable to furnish the exact theory behind
this)

-- 
Revolutionario



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  8 15:48:14 2005
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 12:48:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Run/Edit mode
In-Reply-To: <2AC7D7ECB6CC2C4D912B478A066E802270CA17@ukcoswnhm0002.uk.cosworth-technology.local>
Message-ID: <20051108204815.37976.qmail@web60524.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Thornton, John" <John.Thornton at gb.mahle.com>
wrote:
> Dear People,
> I run Linux Redhat version of Revolution Studio
> version 2.6.1.  When I try to build a stack and
> cards, the first card is to ask for info from the
> user.  This works if I save the stack, exit the
> stack and reload the stack into Revolution and press
> the Run mode button.  However, I cannot get the damn
> thing to run from the beginning and ask the user for
> the required info, simply by switching from Edit
> mode to Run mode.  Am I missing a vital step, or the
> switch from Edit mode to Run mode not working
> properly? 
> 
> Regards
> 
> JohnT
> 

Hi John,

Revolution is a different animal from the traditional
development tools with a build/compile/test cycle: in
Rev, you are at the same time 'running' nd 'editing'
your application.

Thi means that when you go to 'run' mode, your stack
will not automatically close everything, go to the
first card and work from there, but will stay on the
same card in the stack that you've been editing.

If you're working in a single stack, just enter 'run'
mode, open the message box, and type:
  go first

This will tell Revolution to go to the first card of
your stack, which is where you want to go when testing
your application :-)

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From dleyanna at rtl.org  Tue Nov  8 16:12:09 2005
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 16:12:09 -0500
Subject: Synchronization puzzle.
In-Reply-To: <4370DECA.3090208@rtl.org>
References: <4370DECA.3090208@rtl.org>
Message-ID: <437114A9.6080202@rtl.org>

My bad, should have been a personal email...

However, if anyone knows of some tools or stacks that I can use/buy to 
implement a PIM please let me know...

Dave

Dave LeYanna wrote:

> Alex;
>
> I was searching the archives looking for some information about a PIM 
> lib or stack that may be available and noticed your post about 
> syncronization issues you were looking at. Did you ever finish that 
> addressbook app? would you be interested in sharing or selling it?
>
> We need to develop a PIM and an address book is part of such an 
> application.
>
> We probally will be using PostgreSQL on a server with SQLLite on the 
> desktops that will need to sync once connected to the network or via 
> the internet.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Dave LeYanna
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Nov  8 15:19:51 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 14:19:51 -0600
Subject: [OT] Daylight Savings (Was Re: Scripting conference stack
In-Reply-To: <p06230917bf96b54b75a4@[69.19.167.166]>
Message-ID: <BF966487.2F690%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/8/05 2:07 PM, "Jim Hurley" <jhurley at infostations.com> wrote:

>> 
>>> 
>>>  Sarah,
>>> 
>>>  You have Conrad Adenauer to thank for daylight saving time.
>> 
>> Actually, I thought it was Benjamin Franklin...
>> 
>>   http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/franklin.html
>> 
>> or did he just muse about it?
>> 
>> Ken Ray
>> Sons of Thunder Software
>> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>> 
> 
> Ken,
> 
> That line, attributing daylight savings time to Adenauer, works
> better if you HEAR it rather than read it. :)

Now that you mention it, I did hear that it was actually Conrad and his
cousin, Alexander Subtractanauer, were responsible for daylight savings...

;-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From rishi at puredata.com.au  Tue Nov  8 16:57:50 2005
From: rishi at puredata.com.au (Rishi Viner)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 08:57:50 +1100
Subject: Sound in Linux
In-Reply-To: <web-338684678@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-338684678@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <200511090857.50921.rishi@puredata.com.au>

Hi there, I'm not experienced enough with sound in Rev to help there, but I do 
have some Linux experience. 

I just think that if it is making some sound at all, then the problem may be 
with the Linux sound system..? Does sound playback work using XMMS or 
something like that? If not you may need to play around with your "alsa" 
config...

On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 09:25 pm, Mathewson wrote:
> Having spent some time on the first cycle of my EFL system
> development - making the stacks using my licensed version
> of Dreamcard - I popped them onto my "new" PC (PIII, 600
> MHz, 128 MB RAM - Kubuntu 5.10) - A BIG THANK YOU TO NOVELL
> for FREE RR 2.2.1 - and when I clicked on the button "Brown
> Cow" instead of hearing my growly voice saying "Brown Cow"
> (No rocket science round here - just English for 6 year-old
> Bulgarians) I heard something very like a cat being run
> over by a truck . . .
>
> Hard science: recorded the sound on a Mac using the Sound
> Studio program that came bundled with the 10.2 install -
> Mono, 44.000, AIFF
>
> I suspect this is not the right format for Linux, but can
> find nothing in either RR or MC documentation.
>
> More rests on this than my poxy little language school as
> the resulting programs (standalones) for Linux will be
> uploaded to Ubuntu for distribution in Africa (Mind you, I
> can't help feeling sorry for the poor Africans having to
> put up with my Brown Cows).
>
> I hope, hope, hope that I can get sound to behave in Linux
> without resort to the superannuated and crappy xanim. And,
> Mike Talluto, as my name is mud in RR circles (!!!) I
> cannot get into Bugzilla, etc. and say my piece about movie
> files and so forth with RR/MC in Linux.
>
> I suppose the bottom line is that I shall have to have a
> very dirty weekend embedding every possible sound
> configuration I can think of in a stack on the Mac and them
> messing around with it on the Kubuntu PC - although a
> little voice tells me that this  is rather inefficient.
>
> I would be extremely grateful for any help in this area.
>
> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson


-- 
Rishi Viner
--------------
PUREDATA
Australia

www.puredata.com.au


From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Tue Nov  8 16:58:02 2005
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 22:58:02 +0100
Subject: ANN: Another collection of Pattern Art uploaded
Message-ID: <43711F6A.7060006@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

On Tue Nov 8, Dom mcdomi at free.fr wrote:

> >Meanwhile, until I fix this, you could
> > possibly crop the border of the jpgs with a photo tool?
>
> No harm :-)
> my Photoshop 5 LE (runs under Classic) did the trick, i.e. eliminated
> one pixel on top, left and right margin (seems good for the bottom
> margin)


I had an external look at my website: It could be than Macromedia 
Fireworks, which I used to set up the web presentation of thumbs and 
image pages, is involved in producing these borders. I will find out.-

 From my weblogs I see that my announcement of "Pattern Art Two" late on 
Saturday night (European time) sparked a lot of interest (although that 
did not translate into too many posts on the list - which was neither 
expected nor intended):

Since the announcement Saturday night and including Sunday and Monday - 
the data for today are not yet in - my website was accessed 4.600 times 
accompanied by downloads of a volume of 48 MBs.

Regards,

Wilhelm Sanke

<http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>



From alex at tweedly.net  Tue Nov  8 16:58:16 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 21:58:16 +0000
Subject: Synchronization puzzle.
In-Reply-To: <4370DECA.3090208@rtl.org>
References: <4370DECA.3090208@rtl.org>
Message-ID: <43711F78.4030509@tweedly.net>

Dave LeYanna wrote:

> Alex;
>
> I was searching the archives looking for some information about a PIM 
> lib or stack that may be available and noticed your post about 
> syncronization issues you were looking at. Did you ever finish that 
> addressbook app? would you be interested in sharing or selling it?
>
No, I didn't "finish" it. But I (and the rest of my family) now use it 
as *our* shared addressbook. It's a long way from finished - somewhere I 
have a long list of things that need done before I can "release" it, but 
it already does enough to be more useful (in my unusual circumstances) 
than any other addressbook I've ever found, so I'm using it happily and 
the other improvements are low priority.  The initial posting about it 
received only one (slightly discouraging) reply, so I never did get 
around to posting the stack anywhere.

> We need to develop a PIM and an address book is part of such an 
> application.
>
> We probally will be using PostgreSQL on a server with SQLLite on the 
> desktops that will need to sync once connected to the network or via 
> the internet.

The synchronization scheme I have may be overkill - multiple people 
independently and asynchronously (off-line) editing a fully shared 
addressbook or calendar, and may also be inadequate in other ways (it is 
a single shared addressbook/calendar, with no mechanism to have separate 
views or to sync or co-ordinate between such multiple data sets).  So 
I'd recommend a careful look over the "synchronization spec" part of my 
earlier email to make sure it is suitable for you.

I have currently only implemented the "shared file system" sync method - 
though I did use the basic technique in another app where I implemented 
the server/client method (not in Rev), so I feel comfortable that it 
works and saves bandwidth. It should extend easily to PostgreSQL - an 
initial query to retrieve the control fields for all records, with 
subsequent retrieves of the rest of the data only for the updated records.

I'll clean it up, remove my own data :-) and put the stack up on 
revonline tonight. The stack carries many footprints of the fact that I 
initially intended to make it a single "PIM" - and later changed my mind 
and did separate addressbook and calendar apps. For instance, right now 
there is a "tabbed notebook" with only the single tab for addressbook.

btw - I'm not interested in selling it, but if you find it useful and 
use any (enough) ideas from it (esp the sync scheme which afaik is 
novel), I'd appreciate a mention in the credits/footnotes.




-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 05/11/2005



From dleyanna at rtl.org  Tue Nov  8 17:07:06 2005
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 17:07:06 -0500
Subject: Synchronization puzzle.
In-Reply-To: <43711F78.4030509@tweedly.net>
References: <4370DECA.3090208@rtl.org> <43711F78.4030509@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <4371218A.7070103@rtl.org>

Thanks Alex!

Dave

Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Dave LeYanna wrote:
>
>> Alex;
>>
>> I was searching the archives looking for some information about a PIM 
>> lib or stack that may be available and noticed your post about 
>> syncronization issues you were looking at. Did you ever finish that 
>> addressbook app? would you be interested in sharing or selling it?
>>
> No, I didn't "finish" it. But I (and the rest of my family) now use it 
> as *our* shared addressbook. It's a long way from finished - somewhere 
> I have a long list of things that need done before I can "release" it, 
> but it already does enough to be more useful (in my unusual 
> circumstances) than any other addressbook I've ever found, so I'm 
> using it happily and the other improvements are low priority.  The 
> initial posting about it received only one (slightly discouraging) 
> reply, so I never did get around to posting the stack anywhere.
>
>> We need to develop a PIM and an address book is part of such an 
>> application.
>>
>> We probally will be using PostgreSQL on a server with SQLLite on the 
>> desktops that will need to sync once connected to the network or via 
>> the internet.
>
>
> The synchronization scheme I have may be overkill - multiple people 
> independently and asynchronously (off-line) editing a fully shared 
> addressbook or calendar, and may also be inadequate in other ways (it 
> is a single shared addressbook/calendar, with no mechanism to have 
> separate views or to sync or co-ordinate between such multiple data 
> sets).  So I'd recommend a careful look over the "synchronization 
> spec" part of my earlier email to make sure it is suitable for you.
>
> I have currently only implemented the "shared file system" sync method 
> - though I did use the basic technique in another app where I 
> implemented the server/client method (not in Rev), so I feel 
> comfortable that it works and saves bandwidth. It should extend easily 
> to PostgreSQL - an initial query to retrieve the control fields for 
> all records, with subsequent retrieves of the rest of the data only 
> for the updated records.
>
> I'll clean it up, remove my own data :-) and put the stack up on 
> revonline tonight. The stack carries many footprints of the fact that 
> I initially intended to make it a single "PIM" - and later changed my 
> mind and did separate addressbook and calendar apps. For instance, 
> right now there is a "tabbed notebook" with only the single tab for 
> addressbook.
>
> btw - I'm not interested in selling it, but if you find it useful and 
> use any (enough) ideas from it (esp the sync scheme which afaik is 
> novel), I'd appreciate a mention in the credits/footnotes.
>
>
>
>



From mcdomi at free.fr  Tue Nov  8 17:07:55 2005
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 23:07:55 +0100
Subject: [OT] Daylight Savings (Was Re: Scripting conference stack
In-Reply-To: <BF966487.2F690%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <1h5qdf9.134hjv71itqq7jM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

> > That line, attributing daylight savings time to Adenauer, works
> > better if you HEAR it rather than read it. :)
> 
> Now that you mention it, I did hear that it was actually Conrad and his
> cousin, Alexander Subtractanauer, were responsible for daylight savings...

I got it!

good for training in foreign languages, for us non-english speakers ;-)

-- 
add an hour (in spring, only!)



From mcdomi at free.fr  Tue Nov  8 17:07:56 2005
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 23:07:56 +0100
Subject: ANN: Another collection of Pattern Art uploaded
In-Reply-To: <43711F6A.7060006@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <1h5qdih.8foz0t13o2it4M%mcdomi@free.fr>

Wilhelm Sanke <sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de> wrote:

> Since the announcement Saturday night and including Sunday and Monday -
> the data for today are not yet in - my website was accessed 4.600 times
> accompanied by downloads of a volume of 48 MBs.

I confess -- this is NOT my fault!
;-)
Anyway, this is good to pass the word about Revolution...

-- 
Revolutionario



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Nov  8 17:39:02 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 23:39:02 +0100
Subject: [OT] Daylight Savings (Was Re: Scripting conference stack
In-Reply-To: <1h5qdf9.134hjv71itqq7jM%mcdomi@free.fr>
References: <1h5qdf9.134hjv71itqq7jM%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <F4EB1609-5C69-420D-A9E6-61CFEC9F886D@major-k.de>

Hi all,


Am 08.11.2005 um 23:07 schrieb Dom:

> Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:
>
>>> That line, attributing daylight savings time to Adenauer, works
>>> better if you HEAR it rather than read it. :)
>>
>> Now that you mention it, I did hear that it was actually Conrad  
>> and his
>> cousin, Alexander Subtractanauer, were responsible for daylight  
>> savings...
>
> I got it!
>
> good for training in foreign languages, for us non-english  
> speakers ;-)

well, took me a bit longer since I am a german native speaker and  
know how
to pronounce Adenauer correctly :-)

> add an hour (in spring, only!)

Best

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From PS1 at SoftSeven.org  Tue Nov  8 19:20:08 2005
From: PS1 at SoftSeven.org (Paul)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 18:20:08 -0600
Subject: backup of this email archives
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.0.20051108181816.02994ba0@SoftSeven.org>

I used to have a RunRev program that would let me search for the 
archive email from this list. After performing the "F" word on my 
hard drive I lost that stack. Can someone help on restoring it?



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/163 - Release Date: 11/8/2005




From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  8 19:18:44 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 16:18:44 -0800
Subject: [OT] Mac OSX Tiger Spotlight function - help
In-Reply-To: <43711F78.4030509@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <BF968064.302E7%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Hopefully someone on the list has solved/developed a workaround for this, or
perhaps I am missing something in all the docs and preferences.

I am trying to locate, catalog, and update many versions of an SWF that I
post to a multitude of web sites.  Before Tiger, I simply did a Finder FIND
and retrieved a listing on all the hard drives, then sorted by modification
date.

The new Spotlight only seems to use the 'date last opened' for locating and
sorting, which is useless for me.  Even the date created would work in this
case, but alas, no,  Spotlight does not have this.

Creating a Smart Folder allows a search on mod and creation date critera,
but does not list those nor allow sorting.

Is there a way to do this?  Why would Apple not make it possible to search
on one of the criteria in the Finder database? then get a listing that
included that criteria?  then allow sorting on one of the criterion?

Obviously a few choice words were spoken as this sets back my production
schedule for today several hours... not minutes... HOURS

Jim Ault
Las Vegas




From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 20:58:49 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 11:58:49 +1000
Subject: [OT] Mac OSX Tiger Spotlight function - help
In-Reply-To: <BF968064.302E7%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
References: <43711F78.4030509@tweedly.net>
	<BF968064.302E7%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511081758i199b5974pbd9c54925795ffe0@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/9/05, Jim Ault <JimAultWins at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hopefully someone on the list has solved/developed a workaround for this, or
> perhaps I am missing something in all the docs and preferences.
>
> I am trying to locate, catalog, and update many versions of an SWF that I
> post to a multitude of web sites.  Before Tiger, I simply did a Finder FIND
> and retrieved a listing on all the hard drives, then sorted by modification
> date.
>
> The new Spotlight only seems to use the 'date last opened' for locating and
> sorting, which is useless for me.  Even the date created would work in this
> case, but alas, no,  Spotlight does not have this.
>
> Creating a Smart Folder allows a search on mod and creation date critera,
> but does not list those nor allow sorting.
>
> Is there a way to do this?  Why would Apple not make it possible to search
> on one of the criteria in the Finder database? then get a listing that
> included that criteria?  then allow sorting on one of the criterion?
>

Hi Jim,

By default, a Smart Folder gives you the items listed in their
categories. But if you click the list button at the top left of the
window (where you normally toggle between column, icon & list views)
you can set it to use the standard list view. Then go to Show View
Options from the View menu and you can choose to show Date created and
sort on that.

HTH,
Sarah


From john at debraneys.com  Tue Nov  8 21:07:29 2005
From: john at debraneys.com (John Tregea)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 13:07:29 +1100
Subject: Best Practices
In-Reply-To: <41FFCDF7-9905-4F5E-86C1-6934BD22B19E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <200511090207.jA927iW8030837@mail28.syd.optusnet.com.au>

Hi, Erin,

I was interested in your comments about the message primer by Dar Scott. I
am currently using an evaluation copy of Revolution. Is the primer only
available in the full version? Or is it someweher I could download it?

Thanks for your help.

Regards

John T

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Andre Garzia
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 9:27 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Best Practices


On Nov 6, 2005, at 8:02 PM, Erin D. Smale wrote:

>
> Also, the feedback cements my need to dive into the message  
> hierachy and really wrap my head around it. I have Richard's  
> article on tap and Dan's material is a good read. Geez...you guys  
> were serious when you said message hierachy was important. ;-)
>
> Thanks to all for your helpful explanations to and patience with  
> this newbie.

Erin,

a very useful resource for understanding the message path, is the  
primer made by Dar Scott, I think it's the best resource ever. By  
carefully planning where your code goes, you can save a lot of  
coding. As time goes, you'll begin to develop your own style. There  
are coders here that make heavy use of libraries, others will insert  
all on stackscript and just hook the UI to it, others will make so  
many twists in the message path that their code will resemble a tight  
chain of whispers. The cool thing of Transcript is that it allows you  
to adapt Rev for your tastes and not the other way arround.

There's a scripting style guide that is used by many here that tells  
about how to prefix variables and stuff like that. Also the  
RevInterop group makes a nice guide that allows our stacks to  
interoperate in a sane way.

I remember when I first saw the message primer, before reading it,  
someone said: "in the end, you'll love the message path", and yes, I  
do love it.

Cheers
andre
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From tjframe at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 21:32:24 2005
From: tjframe at gmail.com (TJ Frame)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 19:32:24 -0700
Subject: Slow screen refresh in Windows
In-Reply-To: <8.7494095f.30a24c4e@aol.com>
References: <8.7494095f.30a24c4e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7348a9e80511081832j7bf176e5k2664b8bd1fb7c1fb@mail.gmail.com>

hmm.. on my system that code executes on a BMP in about 840 milliseconds.
 Try using a JPEG, they are much smaller - that same routine runs in 91
milliseconds when using a JPEG set at quality level 10 in Photoshop (which
is nearly loseless). In fact for on-screen use you can save a JPEG down to
about 5 in Photoshop without any serious degradation in quality.
 Also make sure that the native size of the image is used, not some huge
giant image you imported and then scaled down.

 On 11/8/05, RGould8 at aol.com <RGould8 at aol.com> wrote:
>
> I did some digging around in the archives, and I see that some folks are
> having this same problem, but in my case, I haven't read a solution:
>
> I need to be able to click on a button, and have an image "shrink",
> width-wise, until the width is zero and the image disappears:
>
> repeat with x = 300 down to 0 step -10
> set the width of image "screenshot" to x
> set the loc of image "screenshot" to 300,300
> end repeat
>
>
> This code works perfectly on a Mac, but in Windows, I get a watch-icon for
> 2
> seconds, and then the image chuggs and chuggs until it disappears. The
> performance is much much worse in Windows.
>
> I've tried putting an unlock screen in the loop, and I've tried the "wait
> 0
> with message" technique. What other way is there to accomplish this effect
> and make it work smoothly in Windows? The image is nothing special - - -
> just
> a small 300x 150 BMP file.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  8 22:54:35 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 19:54:35 -0800
Subject: [OT] Mac OSX Tiger Spotlight function - help
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511081758i199b5974pbd9c54925795ffe0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BF96B2FB.302FB%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Thanks, Sarah,

I guess the different presentation with the Spotlight interface got me
headed in the wrong direction.  I looked at the help, etc, and even the
"View:Show View Options" in the group view [which has only 2 choices]
without "getting it"

Now I can focus on cross-updating files on 4 hard drives tonight :-)
Thanks, again.

Jim

On 11/8/05 5:58 PM, "Sarah Reichelt" <sarah.reichelt at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11/9/05, Jim Ault <JimAultWins at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Hopefully someone on the list has solved/developed a workaround for this, or
>> perhaps I am missing something in all the docs and preferences.
>> 
>> I am trying to locate, catalog, and update many versions of an SWF that I
>> post to a multitude of web sites.  Before Tiger, I simply did a Finder FIND
>> and retrieved a listing on all the hard drives, then sorted by modification
>> date.
>> 
>> The new Spotlight only seems to use the 'date last opened' for locating and
>> sorting, which is useless for me.  Even the date created would work in this
>> case, but alas, no,  Spotlight does not have this.
>> 
>> Creating a Smart Folder allows a search on mod and creation date critera,
>> but does not list those nor allow sorting.
>> 
>> Is there a way to do this?  Why would Apple not make it possible to search
>> on one of the criteria in the Finder database? then get a listing that
>> included that criteria?  then allow sorting on one of the criterion?
>> 
> 
> Hi Jim,
> 
> By default, a Smart Folder gives you the items listed in their
> categories. But if you click the list button at the top left of the
> window (where you normally toggle between column, icon & list views)
> you can set it to use the standard list view. Then go to Show View
> Options from the View menu and you can choose to show Date created and
> sort on that.
> 
> HTH,
> Sarah
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Tue Nov  8 23:13:16 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Buster)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 05:13:16 +0100
Subject: Relative Speed of different loop structures. [was Finding
	non-common elements]
Message-ID: <19F3AC7D-C670-4DD4-AD9B-6DBD725A498F@scarlet.be>

Hi again,

I was not so a mint condition because of 3 more mistakes of i made/ 
overlooked:



> on mouseup
>
>   put fld "Field 1"  into t1      ### & cr & "ZZZZZZZZZZ" into t1
>
> put fld "Field 2" into t2        ### & cr & "test line" & cr &  
> "ZZZZZZZZZZ" into t2
>
>   put the millisecs into tStart
>
>   put 1 into i2
###  this was the wrong spot to take the num of lines because of a  
possible swap
--  put the number of lines in t2 into limit2
>
>   ### making sure the strings are  non numerics
>
>   if char -1 of t1 is not cr then put cr after t1
>
>   if char -1 of t2 is not cr then put cr after t2
>
>   replace cr with " a"&cr in t1
>
>   replace cr with " a"&cr in t2
>
>
>
>   sort t1
>
>   sort t2
>
>
>
>   ### swap if necessary
>
>   if line -1 of t1 > line -1 of t2 then
>
>     put t1 into a
>
>     put t2 into t1
>
>     put a into t2
>
>   end if
###
put the number of lines in t2 into limit2

>   split t2 by CR
>
>   put t2[1] into L2
>
>   repeat for each line L1 in t1
>
>     repeat while L2 < L1
>
>  put L2 & cr after t2only
>
>       add 1 to i2
>
>       put t2[i2] into L2
>
>     end repeat
>
>     if L2 = L1 then
>
>       -- put L1 & cr after tBoth
>
>       add 1 to i2
>
>       put t2[i2] into L2
>
>     else
>
>       -- put L1 & cr after t1only
>
>     end if
>
>   end repeat
### if repeat exits on L1 <  L2 condition then L2 was not added to  
the t2only list

if i2 = limit2 then put t2[i2] & cr after t2only
>   if i2 < limit2 then
### this
  --   repeat with i = i2 to limit2-1

### should be

repeat with i = i2 to limit2	

>       put t2[i] & cr after t2only
>
>     end repeat
>
>   end if
>
>   put "loop" && the millisecs - tStart & cr after msg
>
> put t1only & t2only into fld "Field 3"
> end mouseup

Sorry for the inconvenience and

I hope it will be ok by now.

Greetings,

Wouter


From soapdog at mac.com  Tue Nov  8 23:52:53 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 02:52:53 -0200
Subject: Best Practices
In-Reply-To: <200511090207.jA927iW8030837@mail28.syd.optusnet.com.au>
References: <200511090207.jA927iW8030837@mail28.syd.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <853C6B56-9FDD-4810-B56C-79F7261E4DC3@mac.com>


On Nov 9, 2005, at 12:07 AM, John Tregea wrote:

> Hi, Erin,
>
> I was interested in your comments about the message primer by Dar  
> Scott. I
> am currently using an evaluation copy of Revolution. Is the primer  
> only
> available in the full version? Or is it someweher I could download it?
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Regards
>
> John T

John,

The message primer is a wonderful resource. First complete all the  
tutorials included in Rev (you can find them in the docs). Then after  
exploring some sample stacks, you can make a better understanding of  
the message path. I don't know if the evaluation version allows you  
to launch revOnline, but if it does, go explore some of the stacks  
shared by other users, I share some under 'soapdog' user. If you  
browse by category, there are some learning resources!

Be welcome, Revolution is a very powerfull and fun language, I never  
regreted migrating my works to it.

the primer is here: http://www.swcp.com/dsc/revstacks.html

cheers
andre

From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Wed Nov  9 00:00:54 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 21:00:54 -0800
Subject: Revolutionary in Cuba
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.0.20051108181816.02994ba0@SoftSeven.org>
References: <6.2.5.6.0.20051108181816.02994ba0@SoftSeven.org>
Message-ID: <p06230909bf9704ca751b@[192.168.1.104]>

Once again, Rev user Luis L. Rod?guez Oro 
<luisr at ispscu.rimed.cu> of Cuba has sent me his 
latest version of Tree View...

I'm guessing Mr. Oro might have some difficulty 
getting anything but email in and out of Cuba. 
From what I gather, their phone system isn't 
really great, let alone internet connectivity. 
Also to consider is the political situation - ??

For whatever reason, Luis is not able to use 
either a site of his own or Revolution Online, so 
I am offering this stack update on behalf of him.

Great coding and use of Rev features. It's quite 
nice looking and also shows the use of a bg group 
as a floating, transparent palette that stays 
within the window bounds...

there's only one thing...all the remarks and most 
of the variables are in Spanish! But hey, just 
use Babelfish!


Anyway, here is the link
http://upload.barncard.com/TreeV2.6.0.rev.zip

I can't help but appreciate the irony of a Rev 
Revolutionary in Cuba. I think this is incredible.

Welcome Luis, to our growing band of inventive 
users! And may Cuba be able to freely trade with 
the USA someday...


sqb
-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Nov  9 00:38:32 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 21:38:32 -0800
Subject: Best Practices
In-Reply-To: <200511090207.jA927iW8030837@mail28.syd.optusnet.com.au>
References: <200511090207.jA927iW8030837@mail28.syd.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <10739695499.20051108213832@ahsoftware.net>

John-

Tuesday, November 8, 2005, 6:07:29 PM, you wrote:

> Hi, Erin,

<stepping in for Erin>

http://www.swcp.com/dsc/revstacks.html

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Nov  9 00:40:15 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 21:40:15 -0800
Subject: [OT] Daylight Savings (Was Re: Scripting conference stack
In-Reply-To: <F4EB1609-5C69-420D-A9E6-61CFEC9F886D@major-k.de>
References: <1h5qdf9.134hjv71itqq7jM%mcdomi@free.fr>
	<F4EB1609-5C69-420D-A9E6-61CFEC9F886D@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <11739798387.20051108214015@ahsoftware.net>

Klaus-

Tuesday, November 8, 2005, 2:39:02 PM, you wrote:

> well, took me a bit longer since I am a german native speaker and
> know how
> to pronounce Adenauer correctly :-)

...then you must be familiar with his comrade, Evenanauer...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From john at debraneys.com  Wed Nov  9 00:39:24 2005
From: john at debraneys.com (John Tregea)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 16:39:24 +1100
Subject: Best Practices
In-Reply-To: <10739695499.20051108213832@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <200511090539.jA95dRTl032315@mail16.syd.optusnet.com.au>


Dear Mark,

Hey thanks, I have got them now...

> <stepping in for Erin>

> http://www.swcp.com/dsc/revstacks.html





From john at debraneys.com  Wed Nov  9 00:40:17 2005
From: john at debraneys.com (John Tregea)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 16:40:17 +1100
Subject: Best Practices
In-Reply-To: <853C6B56-9FDD-4810-B56C-79F7261E4DC3@mac.com>
Message-ID: <200511090540.jA95eIex001706@mail16.syd.optusnet.com.au>

Thanks Andre, I appreciated your help.

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Andre Garzia
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 3:53 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Best Practices


On Nov 9, 2005, at 12:07 AM, John Tregea wrote:

> Hi, Erin,
>
> I was interested in your comments about the message primer by Dar  
> Scott. I
> am currently using an evaluation copy of Revolution. Is the primer  
> only
> available in the full version? Or is it someweher I could download it?
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Regards
>
> John T

John,

The message primer is a wonderful resource. First complete all the  
tutorials included in Rev (you can find them in the docs). Then after  
exploring some sample stacks, you can make a better understanding of  
the message path. I don't know if the evaluation version allows you  
to launch revOnline, but if it does, go explore some of the stacks  
shared by other users, I share some under 'soapdog' user. If you  
browse by category, there are some learning resources!

Be welcome, Revolution is a very powerfull and fun language, I never  
regreted migrating my works to it.

the primer is here: http://www.swcp.com/dsc/revstacks.html

cheers
andre
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  9 00:48:25 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 21:48:25 -0800
Subject: [OT] Daylight Savings (Was Re: Scripting conference stack
In-Reply-To: <11739798387.20051108214015@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <BF96CDA9.3030B%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Even the Queen of England will only receive an Auerbach in the Fall, and,
even then, only one.

However, there is no rule that she can't entertain Knights on a daily basis,
if she wishes.

Jim Ault


On 11/8/05 9:40 PM, "Mark Wieder" <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:

> Klaus-
> 
> Tuesday, November 8, 2005, 2:39:02 PM, you wrote:
> 
>> well, took me a bit longer since I am a german native speaker and
>> know how
>> to pronounce Adenauer correctly :-)
> 
> ...then you must be familiar with his comrade, Evenanauer...



From phadvitthal at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 01:14:23 2005
From: phadvitthal at gmail.com (vitthal phad)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 11:44:23 +0530
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <6f7e18760511082214l79a3cc3bme9681439392fd28c@mail.gmail.com>




From biodan at comcast.net  Wed Nov  9 01:42:07 2005
From: biodan at comcast.net (biodan at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 06:42:07 +0000
Subject: Problems with 2.6.1 on Linux - command line error
Message-ID: <110920050642.22558.43719A3F000699A00000581E2200760180020E0B01070D@comcast.net>

Hi Girard & list,

Indeed, creating the environment variables for various GTK+
libraries solved my problems with running Rev Studio 2.6.1 on
RH EL v4:

setenv REV_GDK_PATH /usr/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.so
setenv REV_GTK_PATH /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so
setenv REV_GOBJECT_PATH  /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so

---------------------
Message: 18
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 18:09:37 +0100
From: Girard Damien <dam-pro.girard at laposte.net>
Subject: Re: Problems with 2.6.1 on Linux - command line error
To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <1131469777.5841.13.camel at White-Side.Workgroup>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hi,

The error is that runrev doesn't find GTK+ library (since Revolution
2.5, the native look and feel under linux is GTK+, but he doesn't work
at all on my computer with a lot of linux distrobution).

For remove this error message, you must make some symbolic link.

Runrev try to look at these file:
/usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so
/usr/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.so
/usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so

Under Redhat linux, these files are in /usr/lib, under
Suse, /opt/gnome/lib.

Under Suse Linux 10, I have got these file, and I have done these
commands.
ln -sf /opt/gnome/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so
ln -sf /opt/gnome/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so
ln -sf /opt/gnome/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.so.0 /usr/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.so

You can also set these environment variable.
  REV_GDK_PATH
  REV_GTK_PATH
  REV_GOBJECT_PATH

And after, Runrev doesn't work, because he find GTK+ library. :(

If runrev work after set these link (or variable), you have got luck,
else, please confirm my bug report here:
http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=2667

Regards,

---------
Damien Girard
Email: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net


Le mardi 08 novembre 2005 ?  04:46 +0000, biodan at comcast.net a ??crit :
> I'm having problems running Revolution from the command
> line on RH Enterprise Linux v 4.
> 
> Installing from either the .tgz or rpm, i seem to be lacking
> linuxgate.so.1. This causes any script run from the command line
> to yield an error.
> 
> Here is my test script that gives errors on linux when run from
> a command line. Mind you, it does run the script, but prepends
> the output with the libgdk error. The GUI mostly works fine (with
> a notable exception that i will post separately).
> Has anyone had a similar problem? I just dont want to be 
> encumbered to parse the error msg all the time.
>  
>  #!/opt/revolution26/revolution.x86
> on startup
>         put "hello world"
>  end startup
> 
>  > Could not open libgdk-x11-2.0.so: libgobject-2.0.so: cannot open shared
>  > object file: No such file or directory
> > hello world
> ____________________________________



From biodan at comcast.net  Wed Nov  9 01:48:22 2005
From: biodan at comcast.net (biodan at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 06:48:22 +0000
Subject: Problem with Linux 2.6.1 script editor on RH EL
Message-ID: <110920050648.2662.43719BB5000F3F6000000A662206824693020E0B01070D@comcast.net>

Jacqueline emailed me saying that this is a known issue (flaky delete
key, backspace key and mouse focus on moderately long scripts).
The recommended solution is to use another text editor & import
the script.  This only happens on the Linux version  - not the OS X
version. (i didn't buy a Windoze license so i can't say anything
about it).

BTW, this behavior occurs with a single stack open after a fresh
restart. Again, only on the Linux version , not OS X.

---------------------------
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 04:51:56 +0000
biodan at comcast.net wrote:

> I've noticed that with moderately long object scripts, invariably the
> GUI becomes non-responsive to the backspace key. The cursor
> jumps unpredictably above or below the current insertion point.
> 
> I can forcibly begin typing a new line again if i position the mouse,
> hold the left button down and hit the return key.
> 
> I also cannot stably select text either, the hilited text just blinks off.
> 
> The only solution is to quit Revolution and relaunch.

I have encountered this also, but found the problem, at least on my system, 
which is Ubuntu 5.10 with Gnome.

My problem was that I was opening and closing other stacks to try and learn how 
to do things, problem was, that not all of these stacks were getting dumped from 
the memory, even if I selected "Close and remove from memory" from the IDE menu.

I found out when I opened the Gnome System Monitor and saw a bunch of stacks 
still listed in the processes.

Only option was to close Rev and start it again.

Not sure this is what's happening to you, but if you're under the same scenario, 
then you know what's up.

-Garrett


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Nov  9 02:16:16 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 23:16:16 -0800
Subject: Testing Standards
In-Reply-To: <D34B387A-28DA-486A-9B06-D594F250D9C4@adelphia.net>
References: <D34B387A-28DA-486A-9B06-D594F250D9C4@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <145559270.20051108231616@ahsoftware.net>

Tom-

Sunday, November 6, 2005, 8:02:12 PM, you wrote:

> Thanks for the kind words and comments. I am now trying to set up a
> testing team for my project. And, well, I am used to doing this as a
> one man team and i am pretty good at that, but I need to organize a
> small team of 2 to 4 people to do the testing on the ANSI C  
> engineering aspect of the project and am not sure of the best way to
> go about this.

> Is there a set of standards for group testing? What about software? I
> know our programming team is using bugzilla, which is great for bugs
> but what about features and whether they are being done right or not?

If you're using Bugzilla and happy with it, then stay there. Feature
requests can be accomodated, as can feedback on features and the lack
thereof.

> Does anyone have some pointers in this direction? How to keep the  
> team together and on the same page?

Well, nobody else has chimed in on this so here goes...

What's worked best for me is a hard one to get everyone to sign onto,
but it's a matter of *not* coding and *not* writing tests until the
last phase of the project, but rather putting most of the effort into
getting the engineering specification document defined. Once that's
rock-solid and all the ambiguities are out of it then engineering can
start building to match the spec and QA can start building tests that
also meet the spec. Once engineering starts delivering builds to QA
then the tests should run without failure. When bugs are discovered
they are either the result of a) engineering not building in
conformance with the spec, b) QA not building their tests properly, or
c) an ambiguity in the spec that wasn't caught in the design process.

The a) and b) bugs are easy to sort out and assign to the proper party
for resolution. The exceptions are what are then brought to the bug
meetings to be resolved.

When the inevitable changes occur over the design life-cycle, those
changes are incorporated into the specification and both engineering
and QA make the appropriate modifications.

This design philosophy is at the opposite end of the spectrum from the
Agile Programming folks. I spent a year and a half as QA lead on a
project following this method and delivered two award-winning products
reasonably on time (changes in requirements mid-project - gotta love
those marketing types) and within budget. The reason it's hard to sign
onto is that it requires a leap of faith in the process - people are
itchy to code and there's no product to show for maybe the first two
thirds of the develoopment cycle.

With rev there's a bit of a difference, since the product can be
storyboarded as a proof of concept for the client and then the
prototype later becomes the working model without having to start from
scratch again.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  9 03:53:42 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 00:53:42 -0800
Subject: Stange occurance with Variable Watcher
In-Reply-To: <200511090540.jA95eIex001706@mail16.syd.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <BF96F916.30321%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Hi, All,

Hmmm, not sure what to think... it is late and I have cruised through a lot
of programming tasks the last several days, nothing to do with Rev.

Mac OSX, Tiger 10.4.2, Rev 2.6.1 and suddenly Variable Watcher does not show
values, but just repeats the variable names on the right side (except 'it' =
1)

Could not find a reference in RevZilla
Reinstalled Rev from the dmg
All is well and Variable Watcher is sporting red lettering for the variable
names, whereas before it was all black lettering. (globals are blue when not
debugging)

Until I can pinpoint something definite, I will let this note suffice in
case someone else has seen this.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas





From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Wed Nov  9 04:05:55 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 10:05:55 +0100
Subject: Stange occurance with Variable Watcher
In-Reply-To: <BF96F916.30321%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <OF7DCC7F27.8CF0DBCE-ONC12570B4.00318910-C12570B4.0031FA14@deutsche-boerse.com>

Jim

You can always try the updated version i posted last week.

It sure fixed lots of issues i had with the VW in the last rev release.

- columns are corrected (dont need resizing each time you open it)
- globals of type array show up correctly when not debugging.
- other minor improvements

Im still working on the MC version but coming soon (after my new script 
editor... ;)

http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloaddetails&lid=95

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 09/11/2005 09:53:42:

> Hi, All,
> 
> Hmmm, not sure what to think... it is late and I have cruised through a 
lot
> of programming tasks the last several days, nothing to do with Rev.
> 
> Mac OSX, Tiger 10.4.2, Rev 2.6.1 and suddenly Variable Watcher does not 
show
> values, but just repeats the variable names on the right side (except 
'it' =
> 1)
> 
> Could not find a reference in RevZilla
> Reinstalled Rev from the dmg
> All is well and Variable Watcher is sporting red lettering for the 
variable
> names, whereas before it was all black lettering. (globals are blue when 
not
> debugging)
> 
> Until I can pinpoint something definite, I will let this note suffice in
> case someone else has seen this.
> 
> Jim Ault
> Las Vegas
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



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From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Nov  9 05:10:38 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 11:10:38 +0100
Subject: [OT] Daylight Savings (Was Re: Scripting conference stack
In-Reply-To: <11739798387.20051108214015@ahsoftware.net>
References: <1h5qdf9.134hjv71itqq7jM%mcdomi@free.fr>
	<F4EB1609-5C69-420D-A9E6-61CFEC9F886D@major-k.de>
	<11739798387.20051108214015@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <4DD25E5C-1EDB-4B40-85FD-5DBA19FCEC4A@major-k.de>

Hi Mark,

> Klaus-
>
> Tuesday, November 8, 2005, 2:39:02 PM, you wrote:
>
>> well, took me a bit longer since I am a german native speaker and
>> know how
>> to pronounce Adenauer correctly :-)
>
> ...then you must be familiar with his comrade, Evenanauer...

no, sorry, not really :-)

But we may be reaching the state of the last 2 syllables of this joke!

hour, pronounced in german = aua = OUCH :-D

> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net

Now back to work or we might be Luhsinganauer or 2 ;-)


Best

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Wed Nov  9 07:11:47 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Wouter)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 13:11:47 +0100
Subject: Finding non-common elements in two arrays
In-Reply-To: <223DA994-240F-48C2-92D4-F50E37E3D6AF@scarlet.be>
References: <223DA994-240F-48C2-92D4-F50E37E3D6AF@scarlet.be>
Message-ID: <6EF564AD-065A-437D-8052-1F48C254344C@scarlet.be>

Hi again,

A little update on the intersectSpecial function
--> a bit speedier and 3 results in 1 array

function intersectSpecial pListA,pListB, at pR
   if char -1 of pListA is not cr then put cr after pListA
   replace cr with tab & "1" & cr in pListA
   split pListA with cr and tab
   repeat for each line i in pListB
     add 2 to pListA[i]
   end repeat
   repeat for each line i in the keys of pListA
     put i & cr after pR[pListA[i]]
   end repeat
   return the keys of pR <> ""
end intersectSpecial

on mouseUp
   put the millisecs into zap
   get intersectSpecial(fld 1,fld 2,a)
   put the millisecs - zap
   if it then
     put "* Common in both:" & cr & a[3] after tList
     put "* Unique in list A:" & cr & a[1] after tList
     put "* Unique in list B:" & cr & a[2] after tList
     put tList into fld 3
   else put it into fld 3
end mouseUp


Greetings,
Wouter



On 07 Nov 2005, at 01:05, Buster wrote:

> function intersectSpecial pList1,pList2,pMode
>   repeat for each line i in pList1
>     add 1 to a[i]
>   end repeat
>   repeat for each line i in pList2
>     add 2 to a[i]
>   end repeat
>   combine a with cr and tab
> ### elements only in pList1 --> 1
> ### elements only in pList2 --> 2
> ### elements in both lists     --> 3
>   if pMode = "bothCommon" then put "*"&tab&"3" into tFilter
>   else  if pMode = "uniqueA" then put "*"&tab&"1" into tFilter
>   else if pMode = "uniqueB" then put "*"&tab&"2" into tFilter
>   else if pMode = "bothUnique" then put "*"&tab&"1,*" &tab&"2" into  
> tFilter
>   repeat for each item tFilterString in tFilter
>     put a into b
>     filter b with tFilterString
>     replace char 2 to -1 of tFilterString with "" in b
>     put b & cr after tList
>   end repeat
>   return tList
> end intersectSpecial
>
> on mouseUp
>   put the millisecs into zap
>   put intersectSpecial(fld 1,fld 2,"bothUnique") into fld 3
>   put the millisecs - zap
> end mouseUp
>
> May be not a real speed monster but not bad either
> (takes < 500 millisecs for 2 fields with > 25000 lines on an iMac  
> G5 1.8 gHz)
>
> Greetings,
> Wouter


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Nov  9 09:16:12 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 09:16:12 -0500
Subject: Testing Standards
In-Reply-To: <145559270.20051108231616@ahsoftware.net>
References: <D34B387A-28DA-486A-9B06-D594F250D9C4@adelphia.net>
	<145559270.20051108231616@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <305243C3-52DA-4B8D-88C0-687BACE9E2F4@adelphia.net>

Mark,

Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for. I have spent the  
last week and a half going over the specifications and using our Rev  
project as proof of concept. Since we are using an outside company  
for the coding, they have a person doing the use-case scenarios and  
specs. They will also have a person writing the QA tests when all of  
this is done. So far I think we are on track with what you are  
describing here. Having the Rev demo really makes all of this easier  
(for me). I just don't have the working experience in this process  
and am a little nervous. Things like what are the next steps and are  
we on track and is this enough to describe etc. are what is  
concerning me.

Do you recommend any 'good' books on this process? Maybe on what to  
expect in the specs? Maybe what is most often left out and or what  
most often causes the most problems?

Thanks again Mark,

Tom

On Nov 9, 2005, at 2:16 AM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> What's worked best for me is a hard one to get everyone to sign onto,
> but it's a matter of *not* coding and *not* writing tests until the
> last phase of the project, but rather putting most of the effort into
> getting the engineering specification document defined. Once that's
> rock-solid and all the ambiguities are out of it then engineering can
> start building to match the spec and QA can start building tests that
> also meet the spec. Once engineering starts delivering builds to QA
> then the tests should run without failure. When bugs are discovered
> they are either the result of a) engineering not building in
> conformance with the spec, b) QA not building their tests properly, or
> c) an ambiguity in the spec that wasn't caught in the design process.
>
> The a) and b) bugs are easy to sort out and assign to the proper party
> for resolution. The exceptions are what are then brought to the bug
> meetings to be resolved.
>
> When the inevitable changes occur over the design life-cycle, those
> changes are incorporated into the specification and both engineering
> and QA make the appropriate modifications.
>
> This design philosophy is at the opposite end of the spectrum from the
> Agile Programming folks. I spent a year and a half as QA lead on a
> project following this method and delivered two award-winning products
> reasonably on time (changes in requirements mid-project - gotta love
> those marketing types) and within budget. The reason it's hard to sign
> onto is that it requires a leap of faith in the process - people are
> itchy to code and there's no product to show for maybe the first two
> thirds of the develoopment cycle.
>
> With rev there's a bit of a difference, since the product can be
> storyboarded as a proof of concept for the client and then the
> prototype later becomes the working model without having to start from
> scratch again.
>
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
>



From revolution at derbrill.de  Wed Nov  9 10:03:37 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 16:03:37 +0100
Subject: Testing Standards
In-Reply-To: <20051109134343.78955825015@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <01958428-5132-11DA-ABFF-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Hi Tom,

> Do you recommend any 'good' books on this process? Maybe on what to
> expect in the specs? Maybe what is most often left out and or what
> most often causes the most problems?

maybe you like this arcticle by Joel on Software.

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000036.html

Cheers,

Malte



From esmale at welshpiper.com  Wed Nov  9 10:09:30 2005
From: esmale at welshpiper.com (Erin D. Smale)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 10:09:30 -0500
Subject: Best Practices
In-Reply-To: <200511090207.jA927iW8030837@mail28.syd.optusnet.com.au>
References: <200511090207.jA927iW8030837@mail28.syd.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <4372112A.8090605@welshpiper.com>

Hi John,

That would be Andre's commentary--I'm still getting through the primer 
myself. That said, you can get it here: 
http://www.swcp.com/dsc/revstacks.html

-- Erin

Check out The Chimera RPG:
http://www.welshpiper.com



John Tregea wrote:

>Hi, Erin,
>
>I was interested in your comments about the message primer by Dar Scott. I
>am currently using an evaluation copy of Revolution. Is the primer only
>available in the full version? Or is it someweher I could download it?
>
>Thanks for your help.
>
>Regards
>
>John T
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Andre Garzia
>Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 9:27 AM
>To: How to use Revolution
>Subject: Re: Best Practices
>
>
>On Nov 6, 2005, at 8:02 PM, Erin D. Smale wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Also, the feedback cements my need to dive into the message  
>>hierachy and really wrap my head around it. I have Richard's  
>>article on tap and Dan's material is a good read. Geez...you guys  
>>were serious when you said message hierachy was important. ;-)
>>
>>Thanks to all for your helpful explanations to and patience with  
>>this newbie.
>>    
>>
>
>Erin,
>
>a very useful resource for understanding the message path, is the  
>primer made by Dar Scott, I think it's the best resource ever. By  
>carefully planning where your code goes, you can save a lot of  
>coding. As time goes, you'll begin to develop your own style. There  
>are coders here that make heavy use of libraries, others will insert  
>all on stackscript and just hook the UI to it, others will make so  
>many twists in the message path that their code will resemble a tight  
>chain of whispers. The cool thing of Transcript is that it allows you  
>to adapt Rev for your tastes and not the other way arround.
>
>There's a scripting style guide that is used by many here that tells  
>about how to prefix variables and stuff like that. Also the  
>RevInterop group makes a nice guide that allows our stacks to  
>interoperate in a sane way.
>
>I remember when I first saw the message primer, before reading it,  
>someone said: "in the end, you'll love the message path", and yes, I  
>do love it.
>
>Cheers
>andre
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
>preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
>  
>

-- 

--

Check out The Chimera RPG:
http://www.welshpiper.com



From europe at ehug.info  Wed Nov  9 10:37:21 2005
From: europe at ehug.info (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 16:37:21 +0100
Subject: Buggy debugger -- solved?
In-Reply-To: <p06200709bef9d3a05f6f@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <p06200700bef8cbd78c79@[10.0.1.2]>	<42D32EF7.4060800@hyperactivesw.com>
	<p06200707bef9aaf0d65a@[10.0.1.2]>
	<p06200709bef9d3a05f6f@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <437217B1.50900@ehug.info>

Tim,

I would like to know whether you have solved the problem you had 
with debugging background scripts. If not, feel free to send you 
stack to me. You can also add your (very good) analysis to bug 
329 of the Bugzilla database.

In my view, the debugger should never just drop out of debug 
mode. It should give some feedback to tell the user why it can't 
continue debugging. If we can figure out what happened with your 
stack, maybe RunRev can add some proper error handling in the 
deugger.

Best,

Mark

P.S. I'm quoting the entire previous message to make it easier 
to recall the discussion.


Timothy Miller wrote:
> It looks like this thread might die. I hope not. I hope a knowledgeable 
> someone is going to reply. I'd sure appreciate it. I'm depending on you 
> guys. I've searched the docs, learned nothing, and taken all advice 
> offered so far. Where else can I turn?
> 
> The gist is, the debugger works fine in stack scripts, but I am not able 
> to debug any background script. I'm talking about bg scripts that work 
> perfectly, every time.
> 
> If I move any background script to the stack script, the debugger works 
> perfectly. I can replicate the problem, every time. If I split a 
> sequence of handlers between a background script and a stack script, I 
> can debug those in the stack, but not those in the background.
> 
> Is this a bug or a feature? Is it well known? Documented? If so, where? 
> If it's a bug, has it been reported? Has it been fixed?
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
>>> On 7/11/05 8:34 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:
>>>
>>>> The details of my debugger frustration, previously described:
>>>>
>>>>> It works fine on, for example, a simple mouseUp script in a simple 
>>>>> button. However, if the button sends a message to a handler in a 
>>>>> stack script (for instance), which then sends another message to 
>>>>> another handler, nested or not, the debugger won't follow along. 
>>>>> "Script debug mode" is definitely turned on. Step Into, etc., are 
>>>>> absent and/or dimmed out, typically. Sometimes, I can see the 
>>>>> script window open, several windows back, but I can't get to it 
>>>>> until the script is done executing. I've tried setting multiple 
>>>>> breakpoints in each handler, tried setting breakpoints by script. 
>>>>> The script rolls right past them.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think Eric mentioned this after you wrote last time, but the 
>>> debugger doesn't track "send to" messages. It tracks everything else, 
>>> but if you "send" a handler to another object the debugger won't 
>>> follow along.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks to Eric, Jacque and Mark on this thread. And thanks to Dan, again.
>>
>> First, let me clarify what happens, and what doesn't. The script 
>> window opens at the breakpoint, but it does not come to the front, and 
>> the script does not pause at the breakpoint. After the script is done 
>> executing, I can move the script window to the front, but it does me 
>> no good.
>>
>> Oops! I just solved part of the puzzle, but mysteries remain. Feel 
>> free to skip to the second row of asterisks if you want. The details 
>> lie between the asterisks if anyone is interested.
>>
>>
>> ************************** the dull details, perhaps now irrelevant, 
>> follow:
>>
>>
>> Here's a typical sequence of events.
>>
>> On mouseup
>>     get this
>>     put that into field "theotherthing"
>>     etc.
>>      goForIt -- this is a message sent to the background script. The 
>> bg script does receive it, and the script executes fine, but I can't 
>> debug it.
>> end mouseup
>>
>> Now, in the background script
>>
>> On goForIt
>>      handler1 -- this massages some data, without changing stacks or 
>> backgrounds. It terminates, so the script moves onto the next handler 
>> in goForIt
>>      handler2 -- more of the same
>>      handler3 -- this goes to another stack, picks up some data and 
>> returns. It also terminates
>>      handler4 -- this is a handler that doesn't terminate. The next 
>> handler is nested, in other words. Depending on an operator, it calls 
>> either handler5 or handler6
>> end goForIt
>>
>> The command "send" does not appear anywhere in this sequence.
>>
>> In reaction to the good comments of the good people on this thread, 
>> and also in reaction to my desire not to look like a whiner or an 
>> idiot, I re-tested. Same results. As follows:
>>
>> If I put the breakpoint in the button, the button script does open, 
>> and I can "step into" through the lines of the button. Once the script 
>> gets to the goForIt message, the script executes without pausing, even 
>> though the window of the bg script opens.
>>
>> If I put the breakpoint at the beginning of the goForIt handler in the 
>> bg script, at the the handler1 message, at the beginning of the 
>> handler1 handler, in the middle of the handler1 handler, or all of the 
>> above, or do the same with any other handler in this sequence, the 
>> same thing happens. The script window opens, but it's not the front 
>> window, and the script runs to completion, without pausing. When the 
>> script has executed, the script window remains open.
>>
>> After reading the docs again, I realized that I can initiate debugging 
>> when the error window opens. So, I deliberately placed an error at 
>> various points in the goForIt handler, or in hanlder1, handler2, etc. 
>> The debug button on the error window did respond, and took me to the 
>> error. The script has paused, the script window opens, but the 
>> debugger buttons at the bottom of the script window (step into, etc.) 
>> are absent, and the corresponding items in the debug window are dimmed 
>> out. The script stalls. All I can do is remove the offending line, 
>> save, and run the script again.
>>
>>
>>
>> **************************  The more productive part starts below:
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe there's something about background scrips. As I write this, it 
>> strikes me that I've put most scripts of this nature in the background 
>> script. I just tried a similar kind of button-handler-handler-etc 
>> situation, where all the handlers are in the stack script. These seem 
>> to debug just fine.
>>
>> Maybe this is why the debugger seems to have worked at some times, not 
>> at others. I didn't notice the pattern before.
>>
>> Now I'm going back to the script described above. I'm moving handler1 
>> to the stack script. If I put the breakpoint at hanlder1 in the stack 
>> script, I can "step into" all the way thru handler1. When it 
>> terminates, and control reverts to the bg script, I can't debug any 
>> further.
>>
>> My hypothesis is -- there is something different about bg scripts -- 
>> maybe several things. In a way I hope so. I'm gonna feel really stupid 
>> if no one can reproduce this issue at this point.
>>
>> If background scripts are "different," what's different about them? I 
>> looked through the documentation pretty carefully, but didn't find any 
>> mention of this.
>>
>> If others on the list haven't have this problem, maybe most 
>> experienced users avoid background scripts, avoid turning on "behave 
>> like a background" or don't have HCaddressing turned on. (In my case, 
>> "behave like a background" and HCaddressing areturned on.) If that's 
>> true, few people on the list would have noticed this issue. It's also 
>> possible it's an OS X-only problem.
>>
>> Should I have known that the debugger doesn't work properly in bg 
>> scripts? Or maybe this is an un-reported bug in the debugger?
>>
>> Your ever faithful fumbling amateur,
>>
>>
>> Tim

-- 

eHUG coordinator
mailto:europe at ehug.info
http://www.ehug.info
http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch
http://www.economy-x-talk.com

Please inform me about vacancies in the field of
general economics at your institute. I am also looking
for new freelance programming projects.



From martyknapp at comcast.net  Wed Nov  9 10:51:08 2005
From: martyknapp at comcast.net (Marty Knapp)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 07:51:08 -0800
Subject: Repeat for each
In-Reply-To: <BF928BBA.2F418%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF928BBA.2F418%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <43721AEC.50401@comcast.net>

>>> filter theData with "*" & tab & "*word*" & tab & "*" & \
>>>      tab & "*" & tab & "*" & tab & "*" & tab & "*" & tab & "*"


I've been tinkering with this a bit and wanted to ask a few more 
questions. Again, my data set is 8 items with all but one being a 
number. I need to be able to select a subset by analysing 1 or more of 
these items. My current data set is approx 128,000 records. When I 
filter the data on the item that contains words, it's pretty fast - 
about 1 second (I have an old Mac G4-single processor 867mgz, and 
running Rev 2.2.1) The speed is exactly the same whether I use the above 
method or just 'filter theData with "*word*"'

When I use the 'repeat for each' to evaluate for 'word' it takes 1.5 
minutes. Where it really gets slow is evaluating the numbers. Most often 
what I need is a range of numbers, so would use greater than, less than, 
or both. Typically I would evaluate 2 of the numbers, but need to be 
able to evaluate all 8 items if needed. The numbers range from 0 to 8 
digits, some whole numbers some fractional. I just did a test evaluating 
one number and it took 3.5 minutes. When I evaluated 2 numbers it took 
5.8 minutes.

Do these numbers sound right? Or am I being a bozo somehow! I've been 
thinking that I should consider using either Valentina or altSQLite. Any 
input there? Is one more suited, easier or ???

Thanks again - you all are very helpful folks.


Marty Knapp


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Nov  9 11:07:14 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 17:07:14 +0100
Subject: Buggy debugger -- solved?
In-Reply-To: <437217B1.50900@ehug.info>
Message-ID: <20051109152947.0342B824918@mail.runrev.com>

 

> On Behalf Of Mark Schonewille

> In my view, the debugger should never just drop out of debug 
> mode. It should give some feedback to tell the user why it 
> can't continue debugging. If we can figure out what happened 
> with your stack, maybe RunRev can add some proper error 
> handling in the deugger.
Mark,

The non-debug mode of the debugger is much needed for globals
debugging. Alas it doesn't do arrays (unless you get a new mod
release I mentioned earlier...) 

Now, I tested Timothy's problem in a stack with a background
inserted the breakpoint. Launched the handler. The script editor 
opened but no debugging going to work!!! oops...

Good call!!!

The debugging works ok in the 2.5 Rev version.

I would bugzill'it!

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo 



From selid at broadpark.no  Wed Nov  9 11:36:14 2005
From: selid at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jan_S=E6lid?=)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 17:36:14 +0100
Subject: How is the built-in controls made?
Message-ID: <000801c5e54b$b343cc80$0500000a@makabre>

Hi Folks

The more I program the more I want to customize my app, to make it look and work like I want it to.
As an example I want to build a custom tab panel. What I'm curious about is how the built in tab panel
in the tools palette is built. And where the script for those built in controls is? I know how to make custom tab panel
and usually I do it by building a group. But the built in tab panel is actually a button. How is this possible?

I think it also would be really useful to check out the script for those built in controls. Like the scrollbar. 

Is it possible to peek inside? I would learn a lot I think.....


Jan


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Nov  9 11:50:31 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 17:50:31 +0100
Subject: Buggy debugger -- solved?
In-Reply-To: <20051109152947.0342B824918@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20051109161259.AA765825003@mail.runrev.com>

 > The non-debug mode of the debugger is much needed for globals 
> debugging. Alas it doesn't do arrays (unless you get a new 
> mod release I mentioned earlier...) 

sorry - non related - I "qui pro quo"'d Mark and my brain
didn't register something! No rant or anything meant...

I just spent a big part of the day working on the mc variable watcher
and finishing some workflow issues with my old mc script editor...

is there anyone still using Metacard?

cheers
Xavier




> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of MisterX
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 17:07
> To: 'How to use Revolution'
> Subject: RE: Buggy debugger -- solved?
> 
>  
> 
> > On Behalf Of Mark Schonewille
> 
> > In my view, the debugger should never just drop out of 
> debug mode. It 
> > should give some feedback to tell the user why it can't continue 
> > debugging. If we can figure out what happened with your 
> stack, maybe 
> > RunRev can add some proper error handling in the deugger.
> Mark,
> 
> The non-debug mode of the debugger is much needed for globals 
> debugging. Alas it doesn't do arrays (unless you get a new 
> mod release I mentioned earlier...) 
> 
> Now, I tested Timothy's problem in a stack with a background 
> inserted the breakpoint. Launched the handler. The script 
> editor opened but no debugging going to work!!! oops...
> 
> Good call!!!
> 
> The debugging works ok in the 2.5 Rev version.
> 
> I would bugzill'it!
> 
> cheers
> Xavier
> http://monsieurx.com/taoo 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From soapdog at mac.com  Wed Nov  9 11:54:44 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 14:54:44 -0200
Subject: How is the built-in controls made?
In-Reply-To: <000801c5e54b$b343cc80$0500000a@makabre>
References: <000801c5e54b$b343cc80$0500000a@makabre>
Message-ID: <FC75772D-1F7F-46E1-8C39-A4B29166D46E@mac.com>


On Nov 9, 2005, at 2:36 PM, Jan S?lid wrote:

> Hi Folks
>
> The more I program the more I want to customize my app, to make it  
> look and work like I want it to.
> As an example I want to build a custom tab panel. What I'm curious  
> about is how the built in tab panel
> in the tools palette is built. And where the script for those built  
> in controls is? I know how to make custom tab panel
> and usually I do it by building a group. But the built in tab panel  
> is actually a button. How is this possible?
>
> I think it also would be really useful to check out the script for  
> those built in controls. Like the scrollbar.
>
> Is it possible to peek inside? I would learn a lot I think.....
>
>
> Jan

Jan,

first I need to apologize for it's to early here in Brazil, so my  
comments might be as fuzzy as my head and eyes right now. I don't  
know how the built in tab panel is made, but, if you want to roll you  
own it's pretty easy if you can create your own images. A simple recipe:

1) Create images with all you tabpanel options, hilited and not, for  
example a tab panel with three options, would need three images, one  
for each option on the front.

2) create a group with the image as "header" (tab panel location) and  
a work area (where your controls will appear).

3) On the spot the user might click to switch panel, you put a  
invisible button or control just to trap the mouseUp message. On that  
message you switch your tab panel image and work area controls...

This is a simple tab panel with custom UI. This will work and look  
the same way accross platforms. Probably the User Interface gurus  
here have some other options which will probably be better than mine,  
but this is a simple example indeed.

PS: I understood that you wanted to pick on scrolbar and tabpanel,  
but since, I don't really know how, I tried my best on a custom  
solution.

cheers
andre


> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Nov  9 12:49:16 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 09:49:16 -0800
Subject: Your quarterly reminder about Open Directory
Message-ID: <4372369C.4000107@fourthworld.com>


This is your quarterly Open Directory reminder:

Open Directory maintains a category for Transcript:
<http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Transcript/>

Of the many dozens of web sites offering Transcript-based plugins,
tutorials, tools, and more, only 26 have been posted there to date.

Open Directory is the world's largest human-edited directory, mirrored
at thousands of sites around the world and feeding the search engines of
Google, Yahoo, and most others.

Adding your listing there will not only help others find your stuff more
easily, but will also reflect well on the community as a whole by
letting folks know it's true size.

At the top of that page is a link titled "Suggest URL" - their
submission form only has four fields so it's a breeze to fill out:

- Site URL
- Title of Site
- Site Description
- Your E-mail Address


--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov  9 13:00:02 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 19:00:02 +0100
Subject: How is the built-in controls made?
In-Reply-To: <000801c5e54b$b343cc80$0500000a@makabre>
References: <000801c5e54b$b343cc80$0500000a@makabre>
Message-ID: <4153AF4A-3C92-4A14-8D8D-21A95D168E46@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Jan,

With the contextual menus:
1. Open the Rev Preferences (general pane) and check the "Contextual  
menus work in Revolution windows".
2. Use the contextual menu (ctrl/right click) on any object in the  
IDE to access its properties and its script.

With the App Browser:
1. Check the "View/Revolution UI Elements in Lists" menu item.
2. All IDE stacks will appear in the App Browser.

IDE stacks are one of the best tool for learning :-)

Hope this helps,

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 9 nov. 05 ? 17:36, Jan S?lid a ?crit :

> The more I program the more I want to customize my app, to make it  
> look and work like I want it to.
> As an example I want to build a custom tab panel. What I'm curious  
> about is how the built in tab panel
> in the tools palette is built. And where the script for those built  
> in controls is? I know how to make custom tab panel
> and usually I do it by building a group. But the built in tab panel  
> is actually a button. How is this possible?
>
> I think it also would be really useful to check out the script for  
> those built in controls. Like the scrollbar.
>
> Is it possible to peek inside? I would learn a lot I think.....


----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Nov  9 13:03:47 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 18:03:47 +0000
Subject: Repeat for each
In-Reply-To: <43721AEC.50401@comcast.net>
References: <BF928BBA.2F418%kray@sonsothunder.com> <43721AEC.50401@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <43723A03.4090202@tweedly.net>

Marty Knapp wrote:

>
> I've been tinkering with this a bit and wanted to ask a few more 
> questions. Again, my data set is 8 items with all but one being a 
> number. I need to be able to select a subset by analysing 1 or more of 
> these items. My current data set is approx 128,000 records. When I 
> filter the data on the item that contains words, it's pretty fast - 
> about 1 second (I have an old Mac G4-single processor 867mgz, and 
> running Rev 2.2.1) The speed is exactly the same whether I use the 
> above method or just 'filter theData with "*word*"'
>
That seems terribly slow to me :-)

I have a file with 120,000 records which look much like

> 2,908,597,451700,398,340,zxcv,3.5

and filtering that with "*zxcv*" takes about 80 - 85 msecs (i.e. less 
than a tenth of a second) on my 2-year old laptop.

(Note - only 1 in 1000 of the records match, so 120 total matches)

Doing the same thing in a repeat for loop takes slightly *less* time avg 
77 ms - here's the code :

on mouseUp
    put URL ("file:D:/Our Documents/Alex/RunRev/asdf.txt") into t
    put the millisecs into tStart
    filter t with "*" & "zxcv" & "*"
    put t into fld "Field"
    put the number of lines in fld "Field" && the millisecs - tStart & 
cr after msg
    put t into fld "Field"
   
    put URL ("file:D:/Our Documents/Alex/RunRev/asdf.txt") into t
    put the millisecs into tStart
    repeat for each line L in t
        if "zxcv" is in L then
            put L & cr after t1
        end if
    end repeat
    put "got" & cr & t1 into fld "FIeld"
    put the number of lines in fld "Field" && the millisecs - tStart & 
cr after msg
    
end mouseUp


Changing that to check which item has the "zxcv" makes it even faster - 
66 msec
code was:

    put the millisecs into tStart
    repeat for each line L in t
        if "zxcv" = item 7 of L then
            put L & cr after t1
        end if
    end repeat

I then tried it with a number (and using a variable instead of a 
constant), and it slowed down slightly to 92 msec

on tryit pNum
    put URL ("file:D:/Our Documents/Alex/RunRev/asdf.txt") into t
    put the millisecs into tStart
    repeat for each line L in t
        if  item 4 of L = pNum then
            put L & cr after t1
        end if
    end repeat
    put "got" & cr & t1 into fld "FIeld"
    put the number of lines in fld "Field" && the millisecs - tStart & 
cr after msg
   
end tryit

So then I tried making the item number and the value vary

Changing it to a more common match  (  >= 451700 giving 11881 matches) 
still only took 278 msec

> When I use the 'repeat for each' to evaluate for 'word' it takes 1.5 
> minutes. Where it really gets slow is evaluating the numbers. Most 
> often what I need is a range of numbers, so would use greater than, 
> less than, or both. Typically I would evaluate 2 of the numbers, but 
> need to be able to evaluate all 8 items if needed. The numbers range 
> from 0 to 8 digits, some whole numbers some fractional. I just did a 
> test evaluating one number and it took 3.5 minutes. When I evaluated 2 
> numbers it took 5.8 minutes.

There's something odd going on.

>
> Do these numbers sound right? Or am I being a bozo somehow! I've been 
> thinking that I should consider using either Valentina or altSQLite. 
> Any input there? Is one more suited, easier or ???
>
Those numbers don't sound right to me. Can you send a sample of the data 
(just 2 or 3 records) to make sure I've not misinterpreted what the data 
looks like ? 
And then maybe send the code snippet that is taking so long ....

Thanks

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 05/11/2005



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Nov  9 13:09:47 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 10:09:47 -0800
Subject: Testing Standards
In-Reply-To: <305243C3-52DA-4B8D-88C0-687BACE9E2F4@adelphia.net>
References: <D34B387A-28DA-486A-9B06-D594F250D9C4@adelphia.net>
	<145559270.20051108231616@ahsoftware.net>
	<305243C3-52DA-4B8D-88C0-687BACE9E2F4@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <959186088.20051109100947@ahsoftware.net>

Tom-

Wednesday, November 9, 2005, 6:16:12 AM, you wrote:

> Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for. I have spent the
> last week and a half going over the specifications and using our Rev
> project as proof of concept. Since we are using an outside company  
> for the coding, they have a person doing the use-case scenarios and
> specs. They will also have a person writing the QA tests when all of
> this is done. So far I think we are on track with what you are  
> describing here. Having the Rev demo really makes all of this easier
> (for me). I just don't have the working experience in this process  
> and am a little nervous. Things like what are the next steps and are
> we on track and is this enough to describe etc. are what is  
> concerning me.

Some answers in brief here, but I suggest we take this offline because
I think it is rapidly getting OT and I don't expect there's a lot of
interest in the subject on the list. Also, if you ask any three people
these questions you're likely to get eight conflicting answers.

1. Make sure that the person writing the QA tests isn't the same
person writing the code. That never works.

1A. What is the person who's writing the QA tests using as a reference
to write them from? As a first pass, looking at the code isn't a good
idea - that resolves to the same thing as point 1. As a second pass,
though, white-box testing necessary, which leads to...

2. Code coverage is important: make sure that every line of code is
tested. I don't know what your budget is for QA, but there are various
tools out there for testing this. You want to make sure than each line
of code is hit at least once by some test case; every "if" conditional
path is tested; every "else" gets tested; every "if" has a matching
"else", etc. Code walkthroughs are very useful if you have the time
and budget to handle them.

Software testing is usually divided into: unit testing, functional and
boundary testing, integration testing, and regression testing.

Unit testing is what the developer does. Builds aren't handed off to
QA for further testing until all unit tests have passed. In Agile
(Extreme) Programming this is process is handled by writing the tests
first and then writing the code to pass the tests. Xtalk example:

-- spec says passwords have to be greater than five chars
function CheckPasswordLength
  -- EnterPassword returns true if password accepted
  if EnterPassword("") then
    return false -- has to be greater than five chars
  end if
  if EnterPassword("hello") then
    return false -- has to be greater than five chars
  end if
  if not EnterPassword("bonjour") then
    return false -- should pass this one
  end if
  if EnterPassword("hello1234") then
    return true -- are numbers OK? not clear from the spec
  end if
  return true
end CheckPasswordLength
-- now write the EnterPassword function so that CheckPasswordLength
passes

Functional and boundary tests are written make sure that the code does
what it's supposed to do and doesn't do what it's not supposed to do.
I'm reminded of Mel Gibson and Danny Glover in the Lethal Weapon
movies: "Is it 1-2-3 and we go on 4, or is it 1-2-3-4 and then we go?"
If the spec says that valid values are 0-100, you need to ensure that
negative values and values greater than 100 are rejected and you want
to make sure to test values of zero and 100 as well.

Integration testing is the next step - after the code has been tested
by itself, what happens when this part is put into the system? If this
is a module of a larger app that you've been testing, there may be new
use cases, and there may be interactions between the unit under test
and the larger environment.

Finally, regression testing is what happens when you get version 1.1?
Running all the tests again will probably bring up some problems
because some things have changed since the last version. The existing
test suite will have to be archived and modified to adapt to the
changes, new tests added for additional features, and most
importantly, the new build shouldn't breask any existing tests in
places that haven't been explicitly changed.

There are various tools available to automate these processes, but
they're pricey, have limitations in what they can and can't do, and
usually have steep learning curves.

> Do you recommend any 'good' books on this process? Maybe on what to
> expect in the specs? Maybe what is most often left out and or what  
> most often causes the most problems?

Again, this is probably a matter of personal taste. I'm fond of Cem
Kaner's books "Testing Computer Software" and "Lessons Learned in
Software Testing". The first is a classic, was out of print for some
time and is now back in a second edition with not much changed. This
means that the examples are all out of date (MSDOS and such), but if
you can ignore that the methodology is well thought out. The second I
enjoyed just as a fun read, but you have to be pretty weird to read a
book on software testing for fun. The lessons and examples in there
might be more in-depth than you want to get unless you're diving into
software testing in a big way. You can find these online at Amazon or
Powells if you have to, but see if your local independent bookstore
can order them first.

What's left in and out: I usually find that what's left out causes
more problems that what's put in. It's easy to write test cases and
very hard to write a complete set of test cases. When I'm developing
something (this goes back to point 1) I find that I think I'm doing a
good job testing what I've written, but as soon as I hand it to
someone else they try a use case that I never thought of and it all
falls apart rapidly. I hate to say it, but forethought pays off. So do
peer reviews for sanity checks - "is closing the window the same as
pressing the Done button?" "what happens if someone pastes text in
here instead of typing it?" "what happens if someone puts in quotes
and ">>>>" symbols in a url field?", etc.

Some resources:

Check out:
http://www.qalinks.com/
http://www.opensourcetesting.org/testmgt.php

OK - got more long-winded than I thought. I'll duck out now.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From dam-pro.girard at laposte.net  Wed Nov  9 13:21:07 2005
From: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net (Girard Damien)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 19:21:07 +0100
Subject: Sound in Linux
In-Reply-To: <web-338684678@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-338684678@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <1131560467.5835.3.camel@White-Side.Workgroup>

Revolution support only Xanim under linux. You can vote to this
enhancement request for the support of an another media player under
linux. (Mplayer by exemple or the Xine lib engine).

http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1363

Regards,

Damien Girard

Le samedi 05 novembre 2005 ? 05:25 -0500, Mathewson a ?crit :
> Having spent some time on the first cycle of my EFL system
> development - making the stacks using my licensed version
> of Dreamcard - I popped them onto my "new" PC (PIII, 600
> MHz, 128 MB RAM - Kubuntu 5.10) - A BIG THANK YOU TO NOVELL
> for FREE RR 2.2.1 - and when I clicked on the button "Brown
> Cow" instead of hearing my growly voice saying "Brown Cow"
> (No rocket science round here - just English for 6 year-old
> Bulgarians) I heard something very like a cat being run
> over by a truck . . .
> 
> Hard science: recorded the sound on a Mac using the Sound
> Studio program that came bundled with the 10.2 install -
> Mono, 44.000, AIFF
> 
> I suspect this is not the right format for Linux, but can
> find nothing in either RR or MC documentation.
> 
> More rests on this than my poxy little language school as
> the resulting programs (standalones) for Linux will be
> uploaded to Ubuntu for distribution in Africa (Mind you, I
> can't help feeling sorry for the poor Africans having to
> put up with my Brown Cows).
> 
> I hope, hope, hope that I can get sound to behave in Linux
> without resort to the superannuated and crappy xanim. And,
> Mike Talluto, as my name is mud in RR circles (!!!) I
> cannot get into Bugzilla, etc. and say my piece about movie
> files and so forth with RR/MC in Linux.
> 
> I suppose the bottom line is that I shall have to have a
> very dirty weekend embedding every possible sound
> configuration I can think of in a stack on the Mac and them
> messing around with it on the Kubuntu PC - although a
> little voice tells me that this  is rather inefficient.
> 
> I would be extremely grateful for any help in this area.
> 
> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson
> __________________________________________________
> See Mathewson's software at:
> 
> http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
> _______________________________________
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> The Think Different Store
> http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
> For All Your Mac Gear
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From david at openpartnership.net  Wed Nov  9 13:30:35 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 19:30:35 +0100
Subject: Access Address Book or iCal
In-Reply-To: <9A7DE8EA-5920-43B1-B1D1-46FE21661C9F@gmail.com>
References: <BF9108E6.3048%paulclaude@postino.it>
	<p06230925bf91354bd334@[192.168.1.104]>
	<55AD96BF-5DE0-4BDA-8DDD-250205ECA386@openpartnership.net>
	<9A7DE8EA-5920-43B1-B1D1-46FE21661C9F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2D7D9B9F-821F-4589-BB87-872635FC9899@openpartnership.net>

On 6 Nov 2005, at 19:52, woodywoodpecker wrote:

> Do you use Applescript or have you find a way to read the  
> "AddressBook.data"??

AppleScript.

Also it reads and writes to a shared LDAP address book and I am  
trying to figure out a simple way to store xtra metadata in the Apple  
Address Book sensibly.


From david at openpartnership.net  Wed Nov  9 13:34:09 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 19:34:09 +0100
Subject: Synchronization puzzle.
In-Reply-To: <4370DECA.3090208@rtl.org>
References: <4370DECA.3090208@rtl.org>
Message-ID: <18840ED8-8973-491E-95A2-7298499C3D6F@openpartnership.net>

I'd be interested in this for the Address Book app I'm working on.  
Not addressed the issue of data synchronisation in any depth yet...

On 8 Nov 2005, at 18:22, Dave LeYanna wrote:

> I was searching the archives looking for some information about a  
> PIM lib or stack that may be available and noticed your post about  
> syncronization issues you were looking at. Did you ever finish that  
> addressbook app? would you be interested in sharing or selling it?
>
> We need to develop a PIM and an address book is part of such an  
> application.
>
> We probally will be using PostgreSQL on a server with SQLLite on  
> the desktops that will need to sync once connected to the network  
> or via the internet.


From soapdog at mac.com  Wed Nov  9 13:46:05 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 16:46:05 -0200
Subject: Access Address Book or iCal
In-Reply-To: <2D7D9B9F-821F-4589-BB87-872635FC9899@openpartnership.net>
References: <BF9108E6.3048%paulclaude@postino.it>
	<p06230925bf91354bd334@[192.168.1.104]>
	<55AD96BF-5DE0-4BDA-8DDD-250205ECA386@openpartnership.net>
	<9A7DE8EA-5920-43B1-B1D1-46FE21661C9F@gmail.com>
	<2D7D9B9F-821F-4589-BB87-872635FC9899@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <4760CBB4-03D5-44E0-A840-809F5570D756@mac.com>


On Nov 9, 2005, at 4:30 PM, David Bovill wrote:

> On 6 Nov 2005, at 19:52, woodywoodpecker wrote:
>
>> Do you use Applescript or have you find a way to read the  
>> "AddressBook.data"??
>
> AppleScript.
>
> Also it reads and writes to a shared LDAP address book and I am  
> trying to figure out a simple way to store xtra metadata in the  
> Apple Address Book sensibly.

David,

I have made some experiments with vObjects (vCard and iCal files). My  
routines are a little naive since they where more like hacks. If they  
were to be put to real work, they needed some better error handling  
and veryfication. But they are here:

http://www.soapdog.org/vObjectPackage.rev

Also included in the stack are the RFC for vCard and iCal which are  
both, very good reading.

cheers
andre


> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Nov  9 14:10:45 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 19:10:45 +0000
Subject: Synchronization puzzle.
In-Reply-To: <18840ED8-8973-491E-95A2-7298499C3D6F@openpartnership.net>
References: <4370DECA.3090208@rtl.org>
	<18840ED8-8973-491E-95A2-7298499C3D6F@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <437249B5.3040008@tweedly.net>

David Bovill wrote:

> I'd be interested in this for the Address Book app I'm working on.  
> Not addressed the issue of data synchronisation in any depth yet...
>
The stack is now on revonline (username alextweedly, category: General), 
called something like "Networked Address Book".

The synch method I used is described in 
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2005-January/049974.html
along with some justification for why this method is needed (basically, 
I needed a scheme with no central "master" copy, and the ability to 
synch together any two copies that happen to come together at any time).

The sync idea is (I think) good and general (I use it for address, 
calendar and notes - but the sync'ing is done without regard to the 
content). The stack is usable, but has more rough edges than it does 
smooth bits.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 05/11/2005



From tkuypers at pandora.be  Wed Nov  9 15:25:52 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 21:25:52 +0100
Subject: Find the item a user clicked on...
Message-ID: <445CF03D-E03C-4B57-A8A5-D1FB803F9E6A@pandora.be>

hi,

I have a small problem, which probably someone has solved a long time  
ago...

I have a header above a field with columns of data.
The amount of columns are different each time, the header above the  
field will differ also each time.

I now would like to sort the items in the field, when a user clicks  
on one of the words in the header, but how do I know what item the  
user clicked on?
I only get the ClickChunk or the ClickText, but who has a clever  
routine to get the item a user clicked on?

The titles in the header are separated by tabs and can consist of  
more then one word each.

Any help is welcome :-)


Warm regards,


Ton Kuypers
Digital Media Partners bvba
Tel. +32 (0)477 / 739 530
Fax +32 (0)14 / 71 03 04
http://www.dmp-int.com





From selid at broadpark.no  Wed Nov  9 15:45:06 2005
From: selid at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jan_S=E6lid?=)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 21:45:06 +0100
Subject: How is the built-in controls made?
References: <000801c5e54b$b343cc80$0500000a@makabre>
	<4153AF4A-3C92-4A14-8D8D-21A95D168E46@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <001401c5e56e$77d4b880$0500000a@makabre>

Thank you
both Eric and Andre

Now that I have "opened" the IDE stacks for reading, I guess I will be 
occupied for a couple of weeks:-)

I'd still like an answer to one of my questions though. (If there is one. 
I'm sure there is...)

"the built in (IDE stack) tab panel  is actually a button. How is this 
possible/done?"

Jan


>>Hi Jan,

>>With the contextual menus:
>>1. Open the Rev Preferences (general pane) and check the "Contextual 
>>menus work in Revolution windows".
>>2. Use the contextual menu (ctrl/right click) on any object in the  IDE to 
>>access its properties and its script.

>>With the App Browser:
>>1. Check the "View/Revolution UI Elements in Lists" menu item.
>>2. All IDE stacks will appear in the App Browser.

>>IDE stacks are one of the best tool for learning :-)

>>Hope this helps,

>>Best Regards from Paris,

>>Eric Chatonet.

Le 9 nov. 05 ? 17:36, Jan S?lid a ?crit :

> The more I program the more I want to customize my app, to make it  look 
> and work like I want it to.
> As an example I want to build a custom tab panel. What I'm curious  about 
> is how the built in tab panel
> in the tools palette is built. And where the script for those built  in 
> controls is? I know how to make custom tab panel
> and usually I do it by building a group. But the built in tab panel  is 
> actually a button. How is this possible?
>
> I think it also would be really useful to check out the script for  those 
> built in controls. Like the scrollbar.
>
> Is it possible to peek inside? I would learn a lot I think.....




From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov  9 16:12:06 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 22:12:06 +0100
Subject: How is the built-in controls made?
In-Reply-To: <001401c5e56e$77d4b880$0500000a@makabre>
References: <000801c5e54b$b343cc80$0500000a@makabre>
	<4153AF4A-3C92-4A14-8D8D-21A95D168E46@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<001401c5e56e$77d4b880$0500000a@makabre>
Message-ID: <4F115873-F823-4ABF-85A2-5CB3E49956E7@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Jan,

Could you be more precise: what do you call the 'the built in (IDE  
stack) tab panel'?

Le 9 nov. 05 ? 21:45, Jan S?lid a ?crit :

> Thank you
> both Eric and Andre
>
> Now that I have "opened" the IDE stacks for reading, I guess I will  
> be occupied for a couple of weeks:-)
>
> I'd still like an answer to one of my questions though. (If there  
> is one. I'm sure there is...)
>
> "the built in (IDE stack) tab panel  is actually a button. How is  
> this possible/done?"

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From selid at broadpark.no  Wed Nov  9 16:22:13 2005
From: selid at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jan_S=E6lid?=)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 22:22:13 +0100
Subject: How is the built-in controls made?
References: <000801c5e54b$b343cc80$0500000a@makabre>
	<4153AF4A-3C92-4A14-8D8D-21A95D168E46@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<001401c5e56e$77d4b880$0500000a@makabre>
	<4F115873-F823-4ABF-85A2-5CB3E49956E7@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <006901c5e573$a7375bf0$0500000a@makabre>

Hi again Eric
(Thanks for the patience)

I mean the "Tab panel" that you drag from tools to your stack when you want 
a tab-panel. When I look at the properties
this is a button. How is this possible? If you want to do build a tab panel 
from the ground up you usually have make a group or multiple cards.

What is the "inner workings" going on here?

(I hope this is clearer....Suddenly my confidence in English went on a 
trip....)

WR
Jan




From soapdog at mac.com  Wed Nov  9 16:27:46 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 19:27:46 -0200
Subject: How is the built-in controls made?
In-Reply-To: <006901c5e573$a7375bf0$0500000a@makabre>
References: <000801c5e54b$b343cc80$0500000a@makabre>
	<4153AF4A-3C92-4A14-8D8D-21A95D168E46@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<001401c5e56e$77d4b880$0500000a@makabre>
	<4F115873-F823-4ABF-85A2-5CB3E49956E7@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<006901c5e573$a7375bf0$0500000a@makabre>
Message-ID: <7360DCCF-99A1-4AA1-A805-62CB541EAB36@mac.com>


On Nov 9, 2005, at 7:22 PM, Jan S?lid wrote:

> Hi again Eric
> (Thanks for the patience)
>
> I mean the "Tab panel" that you drag from tools to your stack when  
> you want a tab-panel. When I look at the properties
> this is a button. How is this possible? If you want to do build a  
> tab panel from the ground up you usually have make a group or  
> multiple cards.
>
> What is the "inner workings" going on here?
>
> (I hope this is clearer....Suddenly my confidence in English went  
> on a trip....)
>
> WR
> Jan
>

Jan,

tab tab panel is a button that looks like a tab panel, it just looks  
like, when you press any of the options a simple menuPick message is  
triggered and the face of the button changes but no control is hidden  
or displayed, you must take care of those things your self. You can  
hide/show groups or traverse cards. It's just a nice button that  
triggers menuPick message like all "menu like" buttons.

I don't think there's a huge inner working since all is done by  
yourself, you need to code your tab panel, all the IDE does is  
provide you with nice graphics and a pre-packed button.


cheers
andre



>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov  9 16:29:36 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 22:29:36 +0100
Subject: Find the item a user clicked on...
In-Reply-To: <445CF03D-E03C-4B57-A8A5-D1FB803F9E6A@pandora.be>
References: <445CF03D-E03C-4B57-A8A5-D1FB803F9E6A@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <39EB5C20-8BFC-4C0F-9E5F-9F4D0A5EE73B@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Ton,

If I understand correctly:
Your headers are the first line of your field and not buttons or  
something else placed above the field?
If it's the case, you can:

1. Set the style of each header to "link"
2. Set the underlineLinks property of your stack to false
3. Set the different link colors in an appropriate way if needed

Then the kinks do not appear but do exist and you just need:

on linkClicked pLink
   <do whatever with pLink>
end linkClicked

pLink mirrors always the complete header.

Not sure that is exactly your problem ;-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 9 nov. 05 ? 21:25, Ton Kuypers a ?crit :

> I have a small problem, which probably someone has solved a long  
> time ago...
>
> I have a header above a field with columns of data.
> The amount of columns are different each time, the header above the  
> field will differ also each time.
>
> I now would like to sort the items in the field, when a user clicks  
> on one of the words in the header, but how do I know what item the  
> user clicked on?
> I only get the ClickChunk or the ClickText, but who has a clever  
> routine to get the item a user clicked on?
>
> The titles in the header are separated by tabs and can consist of  
> more then one word each.
>
> Any help is welcome :-)
>
>
> Warm regards,

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov  9 16:34:33 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 22:34:33 +0100
Subject: How is the built-in controls made?
In-Reply-To: <7360DCCF-99A1-4AA1-A805-62CB541EAB36@mac.com>
References: <000801c5e54b$b343cc80$0500000a@makabre>
	<4153AF4A-3C92-4A14-8D8D-21A95D168E46@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<001401c5e56e$77d4b880$0500000a@makabre>
	<4F115873-F823-4ABF-85A2-5CB3E49956E7@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<006901c5e573$a7375bf0$0500000a@makabre>
	<7360DCCF-99A1-4AA1-A805-62CB541EAB36@mac.com>
Message-ID: <6E226458-DE8E-4026-9B39-8E6196BE05F2@sosmartsoftware.com>

Jan,

One add-up to the excellent reply from Andre: all these buttons use  
images as icons.
You will find them in the revIcons stack (use the app browser as I  
told you yet :-) to see all originals of them.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 9 nov. 05 ? 22:27, Andre Garzia a ?crit :

>
> On Nov 9, 2005, at 7:22 PM, Jan S?lid wrote:
>
>> Hi again Eric
>> (Thanks for the patience)
>>
>> I mean the "Tab panel" that you drag from tools to your stack when  
>> you want a tab-panel. When I look at the properties
>> this is a button. How is this possible? If you want to do build a  
>> tab panel from the ground up you usually have make a group or  
>> multiple cards.
>>
>> What is the "inner workings" going on here?
>>
>> (I hope this is clearer....Suddenly my confidence in English went  
>> on a trip....)
>>
>> WR
>> Jan
>>
>
> Jan,
>
> tab tab panel is a button that looks like a tab panel, it just  
> looks like, when you press any of the options a simple menuPick  
> message is triggered and the face of the button changes but no  
> control is hidden or displayed, you must take care of those things  
> your self. You can hide/show groups or traverse cards. It's just a  
> nice button that triggers menuPick message like all "menu like"  
> buttons.
>
> I don't think there's a huge inner working since all is done by  
> yourself, you need to code your tab panel, all the IDE does is  
> provide you with nice graphics and a pre-packed button.
>
>
> cheers
> andre

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From selid at broadpark.no  Wed Nov  9 16:44:10 2005
From: selid at broadpark.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jan_S=E6lid?=)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 22:44:10 +0100
Subject: How is the built-in controls made?
References: <000801c5e54b$b343cc80$0500000a@makabre>
	<4153AF4A-3C92-4A14-8D8D-21A95D168E46@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<001401c5e56e$77d4b880$0500000a@makabre>
	<4F115873-F823-4ABF-85A2-5CB3E49956E7@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<006901c5e573$a7375bf0$0500000a@makabre>
	<7360DCCF-99A1-4AA1-A805-62CB541EAB36@mac.com>
Message-ID: <00b501c5e576$b7fc6400$0500000a@makabre>

So...

If I understand this right the "Tab Panel" is just a button. And the face of 
the button is what changes.
Ok.
But...The "face"? What is the face made of? Polygons? Lines?

The reason I'm making a fuzz about this is that I would really like to make 
a button
that behaves like that, instead of making 2 to 10 buttons in a group. It 
saves space if you can make a button behave like that.
And I think it is much cleaner to have 1 object instead of a lot in a group. 
(just for references)
I don't like to use groups all the time, because I don't want to have to 
many objects in my stack.

Jan

>Jan,

>tab tab panel is a button that looks like a tab panel, it just looks  like, 
>when you press any of the options a simple menuPick message is  triggered 
>and the face of the button changes but no control is hidden  or displayed, 
>you must take care of those things your self. You can  hide/show groups or 
>traverse cards. It's just a nice button that  triggers menuPick message 
>like all "menu like" buttons.

>I don't think there's a huge inner working since all is done by  yourself, 
>you need to code your tab panel, all the IDE does is  provide you with nice 
>graphics and a pre-packed button.

>cheers
>andre



From europe at ehug.info  Wed Nov  9 16:44:49 2005
From: europe at ehug.info (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 22:44:49 +0100
Subject: Fwd: Revolution and SERVICE USB -hardware control with REV
In-Reply-To: <p06230903bf9538dca968@[192.168.1.104]>
References: <p06230903bf9538dca968@[192.168.1.104]>
Message-ID: <43726DD1.8020407@ehug.info>

Hi Stephen,

There is definitely a difference in performance. If you need to 
read from the Service USB device every few milliseconds 
--something between 50 and 100 millisecs-- to get accurate 
results, you just can't do that with a simple do as AppleScript 
command, but you can with a good external.

Every time you use AppleScript in Revolution, it compiles the 
script. This slows down performance extremely compared to e.g. 
HyperCard and SuperCard. To work around this problem, the larger 
part of your code will have to consist of AppleScript. For 
example you can create an applet that keep running and interacts 
with Rev.

It would be very interesting if B&K oHG included an external for 
Rev with their device, as they used to do for HyperCard. They 
would also have a significant competitive advantage, if they did.

Best,

Mark


Stephen Barncard wrote:
> Continuing the thread about machine control...
> I read the specs from
> http://www.bkohg.de/service_e.html
> 
> and wrote requesting info about more directly connecting Rev.
> Marco B?nig wrote back and suggested using their Applescript interface.
> 
> Would there be an advantage in having an XCMD do this instead of 
> Applescript? Would there be some latency in using Applescript instead of 
> directly?
> 
> I don't need this now, but I figure sometime in the future I will. I 
> often end up in strange hardware-software lashups.
> 
> stephen barncard
> 
> 
>> From: Marco B?nig <mb at bkohg.com>
>> Subject: Revolution and SERVICE USB
>> Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 10:52:35 +0100
>> To: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com
>>
>>
>> Dear Mr. Barncard,
>>
>> it's funny. We got a lot of requests about Revolution and we think, we 
>> had forgotten to support Revolution. Sorry for that.
>>
>> However, we tested our Interface on MacOSX with Revolution and it 
>> works. Revolution can control AppleScript and AppleScript can control 
>> SERVICE USB plus. For example, to set the output value to 85 (= 
>> 01010101 binary) the syntax is:
>>
>> do "set SERVICE output value 85" as applescript
>>
>> We have no sample stack yet, but we will create a sample stack, 
>> starting in a few days.
>>
>> SERVICE USB is a Mac-only product. Maybe it is a good idea to work 
>> with Revolution and SERVICE USB on a PC. But we have no resources to 
>> handle support for an additional platform, like PC and Windows. Thus 
>> we have no plans to create a PC-Version.
>>
>> If you are a hardcore system-programmer, we can explain the SERVICE 
>> USB low level protocol to you and try to help creating a PC Version.
>>
>> best regards
>> Marco Boenig
>> ________________________________________________
>> Marco B?nig                  mailto:mb at bkohg.com
>>
>> B?nig und Kallenbach oHG     Tel. 0231/753650
>> Lindemannstr. 25             Fax: 0231/753659
>> D-44137 Dortmund             http://bkohg.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 04.11.2005 um 21:18 schrieb stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com:
>>
>>> I think you have a great product, with many uses. I use a software 
>>> platform called Runtime Revolution
>>>
>>> http://www.runrev.com/
>>>
>>> - it's an evolution of an earlier product called Metacard. It's a RAD 
>>> that is the clear and superior succesor to Hypercard.
>>>
>>> Since it appears that you have created middleware for almost every 
>>> other development platform, I wonder if you would consider helping us 
>>> Rev users get connected to your interfaces. You'll find a lot of 
>>> folks that will help you do it on our rather friendly email list.  
>>> Right now I'd be happy with a Mac XCMD that would work with Rev, but 
>>> I'm sure the others would love a PC version at some point.
>>>
>>> OR perhaps you have a SDK that might point the way.
> 
> 
> 

-- 

eHUG coordinator
mailto:europe at ehug.info
http://www.ehug.info
http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch
http://www.economy-x-talk.com

Please inform me about vacancies in the field of
general economics at your institute. I am also looking
for new freelance programming projects.



From tkuypers at pandora.be  Wed Nov  9 16:47:18 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 22:47:18 +0100
Subject: Find the item a user clicked on...
In-Reply-To: <39EB5C20-8BFC-4C0F-9E5F-9F4D0A5EE73B@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <445CF03D-E03C-4B57-A8A5-D1FB803F9E6A@pandora.be>
	<39EB5C20-8BFC-4C0F-9E5F-9F4D0A5EE73B@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <22BA48E0-C528-422A-B5C2-C93E886A50E3@pandora.be>

:-)))

Eric, thanks!!!

I've never used the link-stuff and had no idea where to start, but  
you got me going, I've solved the challenge thanks to you!

many thanks again,

Ton.


On 9-nov-05, at 22:29, Eric Chatonet wrote:

> Hi Ton,
>
> If I understand correctly:
> Your headers are the first line of your field and not buttons or  
> something else placed above the field?
> If it's the case, you can:
>
> 1. Set the style of each header to "link"
> 2. Set the underlineLinks property of your stack to false
> 3. Set the different link colors in an appropriate way if needed
>
> Then the kinks do not appear but do exist and you just need:
>
> on linkClicked pLink
>   <do whatever with pLink>
> end linkClicked
>
> pLink mirrors always the complete header.
>
> Not sure that is exactly your problem ;-)
>
> Best Regards from Paris,
>
> Eric Chatonet.
>
> Le 9 nov. 05 ? 21:25, Ton Kuypers a ?crit :
>
>
>> I have a small problem, which probably someone has solved a long  
>> time ago...
>>
>> I have a header above a field with columns of data.
>> The amount of columns are different each time, the header above  
>> the field will differ also each time.
>>
>> I now would like to sort the items in the field, when a user  
>> clicks on one of the words in the header, but how do I know what  
>> item the user clicked on?
>> I only get the ClickChunk or the ClickText, but who has a clever  
>> routine to get the item a user clicked on?
>>
>> The titles in the header are separated by tabs and can consist of  
>> more then one word each.
>>
>> Any help is welcome :-)
>>
>>
>> Warm regards,
>>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> So Smart Software
>
> For institutions, companies and associations
> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From david at openpartnership.net  Wed Nov  9 16:55:00 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 22:55:00 +0100
Subject: Synchronization puzzle - take care!
In-Reply-To: <437249B5.3040008@tweedly.net>
References: <4370DECA.3090208@rtl.org>
	<18840ED8-8973-491E-95A2-7298499C3D6F@openpartnership.net>
	<437249B5.3040008@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <839D5BA3-88AE-4644-A3A4-27834C1DD34A@openpartnership.net>

Thanks for posting this Alex - word of warning and feature request  
for RunRev - or is as ever there a way I haven't spotted?

First the warning - downloading the stack "Networked Address Book"  
from revOnline automatically asked me to locate x,y, z - can't  
remember - to which I naturally said no - then got myslef into an  
endless loop of answer dialogues!

Now the question is  - is there a way to cancel an answer dialogue?  
Command period does not work - unless you are lucky and the script  
loop is long - sometimes I manage to break out. I think it would be  
very useful if there was a way to do this as the only way I know is  
to force quit and loose all your unsaved data!

Easy to do - done it many times myself !

On 9 Nov 2005, at 20:10, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> The synch method I used is described in http://lists.runrev.com/ 
> pipermail/use-revolution/2005-January/049974.html
> along with some justification for why this method is needed  
> (basically, I needed a scheme with no central "master" copy, and  
> the ability to synch together any two copies that happen to come  
> together at any time).

Would love to have a look - but scared to download again now :(

> The sync idea is (I think) good and general (I use it for address,  
> calendar and notes - but the sync'ing is done without regard to the  
> content). The stack is usable, but has more rough edges than it  
> does smooth bits.

I noticed :)


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov  9 17:02:38 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 23:02:38 +0100
Subject: Synchronization puzzle - take care!
In-Reply-To: <839D5BA3-88AE-4644-A3A4-27834C1DD34A@openpartnership.net>
References: <4370DECA.3090208@rtl.org>
	<18840ED8-8973-491E-95A2-7298499C3D6F@openpartnership.net>
	<437249B5.3040008@tweedly.net>
	<839D5BA3-88AE-4644-A3A4-27834C1DD34A@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <0EC45D68-BC83-4A17-A46F-6919F6E88C76@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi David,

Just use the contextual menu as I explained it in a previous post to  
Jan (4 hours ago) and toplevel the answer dialogue :-)
All is now accessible...
If you are asked to save the dialogue when closing it, just don't  
save it ;-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 9 nov. 05 ? 22:55, David Bovill a ?crit :

> Now the question is  - is there a way to cancel an answer dialogue?  
> Command period does not work - unless you are lucky and the script  
> loop is long - sometimes I manage to break out. I think it would be  
> very useful if there was a way to do this as the only way I know is  
> to force quit and loose all your unsaved data!

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Wed Nov  9 17:18:14 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 14:18:14 -0800
Subject: Buggy debugger -- solved?
In-Reply-To: <437217B1.50900@ehug.info>
References: <p06200700bef8cbd78c79@[10.0.1.2]>
	<42D32EF7.4060800@hyperactivesw.com>	<p06200707bef9aaf0d65a@[10.0.1.2]>
	<p06200709bef9d3a05f6f@[10.0.1.2]> <437217B1.50900@ehug.info>
Message-ID: <p06200700bf9825437003@[10.0.1.2]>

Hi Mark,

I found a workaround. I can debug a bg script with no problem as long 
as I do it from card 1 of that bg. Otherwise, the debugger window 
opens, but it does not debug. Several subscribers have replicated the 
problem, and the workaround.  It's not a big deal if you know the 
workaround. If not, it can be very frustrating.

I have version 2.6.1. It's not fixed yet. I believe it has been BZ'd.

I'll take a look at bug 329.

Best regards,


Tim

>Tim,
>
>I would like to know whether you have solved the problem you had 
>with debugging background scripts. If not, feel free to send you 
>stack to me. You can also add your (very good) analysis to bug 329 
>of the Bugzilla database.
>
>In my view, the debugger should never just drop out of debug mode. 
>It should give some feedback to tell the user why it can't continue 
>debugging. If we can figure out what happened with your stack, maybe 
>RunRev can add some proper error handling in the deugger.
>
>Best,
>
>Mark
>
>P.S. I'm quoting the entire previous message to make it easier to 
>recall the discussion.
>
>
>Timothy Miller wrote:
>>It looks like this thread might die. I hope not. I hope a 
>>knowledgeable someone is going to reply. I'd sure appreciate it. 
>>I'm depending on you guys. I've searched the docs, learned nothing, 
>>and taken all advice offered so far. Where else can I turn?
>>
>>The gist is, the debugger works fine in stack scripts, but I am not 
>>able to debug any background script. I'm talking about bg scripts 
>>that work perfectly, every time.
>>
>>If I move any background script to the stack script, the debugger 
>>works perfectly. I can replicate the problem, every time. If I 
>>split a sequence of handlers between a background script and a 
>>stack script, I can debug those in the stack, but not those in the 
>>background.
>>
>>Is this a bug or a feature? Is it well known? Documented? If so, 
>>where? If it's a bug, has it been reported? Has it been fixed?
>>
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>
>>Tim
>>
>>>>On 7/11/05 8:34 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The details of my debugger frustration, previously described:
>>>>>
>>>>>>It works fine on, for example, a simple mouseUp script in a 
>>>>>>simple button. However, if the button sends a message to a 
>>>>>>handler in a stack script (for instance), which then sends 
>>>>>>another message to another handler, nested or not, the debugger 
>>>>>>won't follow along. "Script debug mode" is definitely turned 
>>>>>>on. Step Into, etc., are absent and/or dimmed out, typically. 
>>>>>>Sometimes, I can see the script window open, several windows 
>>>>>>back, but I can't get to it until the script is done executing. 
>>>>>>I've tried setting multiple breakpoints in each handler, tried 
>>>>>>setting breakpoints by script. The script rolls right past them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I think Eric mentioned this after you wrote last time, but the 
>>>>debugger doesn't track "send to" messages. It tracks everything 
>>>>else, but if you "send" a handler to another object the debugger 
>>>>won't follow along.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks to Eric, Jacque and Mark on this thread. And thanks to Dan, again.
>>>
>>>First, let me clarify what happens, and what doesn't. The script 
>>>window opens at the breakpoint, but it does not come to the front, 
>>>and the script does not pause at the breakpoint. After the script 
>>>is done executing, I can move the script window to the front, but 
>>>it does me no good.
>>>
>>>Oops! I just solved part of the puzzle, but mysteries remain. Feel 
>>>free to skip to the second row of asterisks if you want. The 
>>>details lie between the asterisks if anyone is interested.
>>>
>>>
>>>************************** the dull details, perhaps now irrelevant, follow:
>>>
>>>
>>>Here's a typical sequence of events.
>>>
>>>On mouseup
>>>     get this
>>>     put that into field "theotherthing"
>>>     etc.
>>>      goForIt -- this is a message sent to the background script. 
>>>The bg script does receive it, and the script executes fine, but I 
>>>can't debug it.
>>>end mouseup
>>>
>>>Now, in the background script
>>>
>>>On goForIt
>>>      handler1 -- this massages some data, without changing stacks 
>>>or backgrounds. It terminates, so the script moves onto the next 
>>>handler in goForIt
>>>      handler2 -- more of the same
>>>      handler3 -- this goes to another stack, picks up some data 
>>>and returns. It also terminates
>>>      handler4 -- this is a handler that doesn't terminate. The 
>>>next handler is nested, in other words. Depending on an operator, 
>>>it calls either handler5 or handler6
>>>end goForIt
>>>
>>>The command "send" does not appear anywhere in this sequence.
>>>
>>>In reaction to the good comments of the good people on this 
>>>thread, and also in reaction to my desire not to look like a 
>>>whiner or an idiot, I re-tested. Same results. As follows:
>>>
>>>If I put the breakpoint in the button, the button script does 
>>>open, and I can "step into" through the lines of the button. Once 
>>>the script gets to the goForIt message, the script executes 
>>>without pausing, even though the window of the bg script opens.
>>>
>>>If I put the breakpoint at the beginning of the goForIt handler in 
>>>the bg script, at the the handler1 message, at the beginning of 
>>>the handler1 handler, in the middle of the handler1 handler, or 
>>>all of the above, or do the same with any other handler in this 
>>>sequence, the same thing happens. The script window opens, but 
>>>it's not the front window, and the script runs to completion, 
>>>without pausing. When the script has executed, the script window 
>>>remains open.
>>>
>>>After reading the docs again, I realized that I can initiate 
>>>debugging when the error window opens. So, I deliberately placed 
>>>an error at various points in the goForIt handler, or in hanlder1, 
>>>handler2, etc. The debug button on the error window did respond, 
>>>and took me to the error. The script has paused, the script window 
>>>opens, but the debugger buttons at the bottom of the script window 
>>>(step into, etc.) are absent, and the corresponding items in the 
>>>debug window are dimmed out. The script stalls. All I can do is 
>>>remove the offending line, save, and run the script again.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>**************************  The more productive part starts below:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Maybe there's something about background scrips. As I write this, 
>>>it strikes me that I've put most scripts of this nature in the 
>>>background script. I just tried a similar kind of 
>>>button-handler-handler-etc situation, where all the handlers are 
>>>in the stack script. These seem to debug just fine.
>>>
>>>Maybe this is why the debugger seems to have worked at some times, 
>>>not at others. I didn't notice the pattern before.
>>>
>>>Now I'm going back to the script described above. I'm moving 
>>>handler1 to the stack script. If I put the breakpoint at hanlder1 
>>>in the stack script, I can "step into" all the way thru handler1. 
>>>When it terminates, and control reverts to the bg script, I can't 
>>>debug any further.
>>>
>>>My hypothesis is -- there is something different about bg scripts 
>>>-- maybe several things. In a way I hope so. I'm gonna feel really 
>>>stupid if no one can reproduce this issue at this point.
>>>
>>>If background scripts are "different," what's different about 
>>>them? I looked through the documentation pretty carefully, but 
>>>didn't find any mention of this.
>>>
>>>If others on the list haven't have this problem, maybe most 
>>>experienced users avoid background scripts, avoid turning on 
>>>"behave like a background" or don't have HCaddressing turned on. 
>>>(In my case, "behave like a background" and HCaddressing areturned 
>>>on.) If that's true, few people on the list would have noticed 
>>>this issue. It's also possible it's an OS X-only problem.
>>>
>>>Should I have known that the debugger doesn't work properly in bg 
>>>scripts? Or maybe this is an un-reported bug in the debugger?
>>>
>>>Your ever faithful fumbling amateur,
>>>
>>>
>>>Tim
>
>--
>
>eHUG coordinator
>mailto:europe at ehug.info
>http://www.ehug.info
>http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch
>http://www.economy-x-talk.com
>
>Please inform me about vacancies in the field of
>general economics at your institute. I am also looking
>for new freelance programming projects.
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov  9 17:30:01 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 14:30:01 -0800
Subject: Find the item a user clicked on...
In-Reply-To: <39EB5C20-8BFC-4C0F-9E5F-9F4D0A5EE73B@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <445CF03D-E03C-4B57-A8A5-D1FB803F9E6A@pandora.be>
	<39EB5C20-8BFC-4C0F-9E5F-9F4D0A5EE73B@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <3012C3D1-11C9-4F99-A0B3-DA893B61C7CE@danshafer.com>

Or you could use Altuit's wonderful altFieldHeader plugin (http:// 
www.altuit.com) which automates this whole process quite neatly.


On Nov 9, 2005, at 1:29 PM, Eric Chatonet wrote:

> Hi Ton,
>
> If I understand correctly:
> Your headers are the first line of your field and not buttons or  
> something else placed above the field?
> If it's the case, you can:
>
> 1. Set the style of each header to "link"
> 2. Set the underlineLinks property of your stack to false
> 3. Set the different link colors in an appropriate way if needed
>
> Then the kinks do not appear but do exist and you just need:
>
> on linkClicked pLink
>   <do whatever with pLink>
> end linkClicked
>
> pLink mirrors always the complete header.
>
> Not sure that is exactly your problem ;-)
>
> Best Regards from Paris,
>
> Eric Chatonet.
>
> Le 9 nov. 05 ? 21:25, Ton Kuypers a ?crit :
>
>> I have a small problem, which probably someone has solved a long  
>> time ago...
>>
>> I have a header above a field with columns of data.
>> The amount of columns are different each time, the header above  
>> the field will differ also each time.
>>
>> I now would like to sort the items in the field, when a user  
>> clicks on one of the words in the header, but how do I know what  
>> item the user clicked on?
>> I only get the ClickChunk or the ClickText, but who has a clever  
>> routine to get the item a user clicked on?
>>
>> The titles in the header are separated by tabs and can consist of  
>> more then one word each.
>>
>> Any help is welcome :-)
>>
>>
>> Warm regards,
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> So Smart Software
>
> For institutions, companies and associations
> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov  9 17:34:53 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 23:34:53 +0100
Subject: [ANN] Smart Script Search
Message-ID: <8FC98BDB-56DA-4CBA-85AE-B43FDA91CAA0@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi all,

I have uploaded to Rev Online (user: So Smart Software) a little  
utility I wrote for my needs but which might appear useful.
This utility parses all scripts in any open stack in order to find  
all lines where any string is present AND any another one is absent.
For instance, if you specify Search for lines of code with "put" and  
without "before,after,into,\" a list all forgotten lines you have  
used to place a debug info in the message box will be displayed. A  
click opens the selected script and scrolls it to the right place for  
verification and correction.
This utility allows all combinations, find again all comments,  
special tags and more...
Enjoy :-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

PS. As this stack is modeless, you will use the contextual menu  
(right click on any part of the window) to save it on your hard disk.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Nov  9 17:40:41 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 16:40:41 -0600
Subject: How is the built-in controls made?
In-Reply-To: <00b501c5e576$b7fc6400$0500000a@makabre>
References: <000801c5e54b$b343cc80$0500000a@makabre>	<4153AF4A-3C92-4A14-8D8D-21A95D168E46@sosmartsoftware.com>	<001401c5e56e$77d4b880$0500000a@makabre>	<4F115873-F823-4ABF-85A2-5CB3E49956E7@sosmartsoftware.com>	<006901c5e573$a7375bf0$0500000a@makabre>	<7360DCCF-99A1-4AA1-A805-62CB541EAB36@mac.com>
	<00b501c5e576$b7fc6400$0500000a@makabre>
Message-ID: <43727AE9.3010605@hyperactivesw.com>

Jan S?lid wrote:
> So...
> 
> If I understand this right the "Tab Panel" is just a button. And the 
> face of the button is what changes.
> Ok.
> But...The "face"? What is the face made of? Polygons? Lines?
> 
> The reason I'm making a fuzz about this is that I would really like to 
> make a button
> that behaves like that, instead of making 2 to 10 buttons in a group. It 
> saves space if you can make a button behave like that.
> And I think it is much cleaner to have 1 object instead of a lot in a 
> group. (just for references)
> I don't like to use groups all the time, because I don't want to have to 
> many objects in my stack.

A tab button is just another style of menu button. Instead of popping 
down like a regular menu button, all the contents are displayed at once, 
each one in a separate tab. Other than appearance, you work with tab 
buttons just as you do menus. The text (that is, the content) of the 
button becomes the items listed in the tabs. When a user chooses a tab, 
a "menupick" message is sent. In the case of tab buttons, the menupick 
message contains two parameters instead of the usual one: the name of 
the tab the user clicked on, and the name of the tab that was previously 
selected.

To make a tab button functional, you script behaviors that use either 
groups or cards. The simplest way is to use cards. When a tab is 
clicked, you go to the card corresponding to that menu choice. (In this 
case, make sure your tab button is in a background group that has been 
placed on each card.) Alternately, you can hide and show groups which 
correspond to the choice. This method keeps everything on a single card. 
In this case, the second parameter is helpful because it tells you which 
of the previously displayed contents you need to hide.

You are right that using a tab button is better than making your own tab 
panel. Not only is the hiliting and selection behavior taken care of for 
you, but the button will be drawn with the correct appearance for the 
current operating system.

In the scripting conference stack "Backgrounds and groups" there is an 
example of using a tab button. There is another example in the 
"Controls" scripting conference stack. Both are located here:

<http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences>
-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From tkuypers at pandora.be  Wed Nov  9 18:08:21 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 00:08:21 +0100
Subject: Find the item a user clicked on...
In-Reply-To: <3012C3D1-11C9-4F99-A0B3-DA893B61C7CE@danshafer.com>
References: <445CF03D-E03C-4B57-A8A5-D1FB803F9E6A@pandora.be>
	<39EB5C20-8BFC-4C0F-9E5F-9F4D0A5EE73B@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<3012C3D1-11C9-4F99-A0B3-DA893B61C7CE@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <41FB4BCB-1CE4-4FFC-9A6D-7492D0652379@pandora.be>

Dan,

I'd love to try it, but where can I find it on your site?

greetings,

Ton


On 9-nov-05, at 23:30, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Or you could use Altuit's wonderful altFieldHeader plugin (http:// 
> www.altuit.com) which automates this whole process quite neatly.
>
>
> On Nov 9, 2005, at 1:29 PM, Eric Chatonet wrote:
>
>
>> Hi Ton,
>>
>> If I understand correctly:
>> Your headers are the first line of your field and not buttons or  
>> something else placed above the field?
>> If it's the case, you can:
>>
>> 1. Set the style of each header to "link"
>> 2. Set the underlineLinks property of your stack to false
>> 3. Set the different link colors in an appropriate way if needed
>>
>> Then the kinks do not appear but do exist and you just need:
>>
>> on linkClicked pLink
>>   <do whatever with pLink>
>> end linkClicked
>>
>> pLink mirrors always the complete header.
>>
>> Not sure that is exactly your problem ;-)
>>
>> Best Regards from Paris,
>>
>> Eric Chatonet.
>>
>> Le 9 nov. 05 ? 21:25, Ton Kuypers a ?crit :
>>
>>
>>> I have a small problem, which probably someone has solved a long  
>>> time ago...
>>>
>>> I have a header above a field with columns of data.
>>> The amount of columns are different each time, the header above  
>>> the field will differ also each time.
>>>
>>> I now would like to sort the items in the field, when a user  
>>> clicks on one of the words in the header, but how do I know what  
>>> item the user clicked on?
>>> I only get the ClickChunk or the ClickText, but who has a clever  
>>> routine to get the item a user clicked on?
>>>
>>> The titles in the header are separated by tabs and can consist of  
>>> more then one word each.
>>>
>>> Any help is welcome :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Warm regards,
>>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> So Smart Software
>>
>> For institutions, companies and associations
>> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
>> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>>
>> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
>> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
>> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
>> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
> http://www.shafermedia.com
> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From harvey.toyama at qlogic.com  Wed Nov  9 18:10:55 2005
From: harvey.toyama at qlogic.com (Harvey Toyama)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 15:10:55 -0800
Subject: serios problem with sql command
Message-ID: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F801AD26A6@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>

Hi Alessandro,
If this is your code,

get revOpenDatabase 
("MySQL","localhost","Gestionale","alessandropisoni","")
revExecuteSQL it,"INSERT INTO Anagrafica (id, Codice) values (NULL, 22)"

then it looks like you forgot the semicolon, e.g.,

revExecuteSQL it,"INSERT INTO Anagrafica (id, Codice) values (NULL,
22);"

-- Harvey
-- 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Alessandro
Pisoni
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 5:35 AM
To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Subject: serios problem with sql command


Bye i have an serios problem with the command revExecuteSQL !!! not  
work into my db sql.

get revOpenDatabase 
("MySQL","localhost","Gestionale","alessandropisoni","") // 
alessandropisoni is administrator fullcontrol
revExecuteSQL it,"INSERT INTO Anagrafica (id, Codice) values (NULL, 
22)" // not write in my db and in my table why?

i use now mysql 5 server and mac os x 10.4.3
I can to do the command sql SELECT and the command   get  
revQueryDatabase(it,"SELECT * FROM Anagrafica") work ok very well!


Cordiali saluti
Alessandro Pisoni

======================
System.ini
Via Grandi 5
20062 Cassano d'Adda (MI)
Tel. 0363-361487 Fax 1782260060 Cell. 335-440150
URL: www.system-ini.it   email: Info at system-ini.it

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From vokey at uleth.ca  Wed Nov  9 18:17:42 2005
From: vokey at uleth.ca (John Vokey)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 16:17:42 -0700
Subject: Metacard user
In-Reply-To: <20051109175812.ED310824F4E@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051109175812.ED310824F4E@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <137D73F0-9B27-4513-B5EC-59DEBF4434FA@uleth.ca>

Yup, me.

On 9-Nov-05, at 10:58 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:

> is there anyone still using Metacard?
>
> cheers
> Xavier

--
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See <http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html>

-Dr. John R. Vokey





From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov  9 18:38:05 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 15:38:05 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
Message-ID: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>

I almost labeled this post off-topic since our purpose here is to  
discuss how to use Revolution. But I decided on balance that it  
affects everyone here, so I left off the [OT].

I've just posted a blog entry at http://www.eclecticity.com/.3c66aaec  
that I believe should be of interest to everyone who is in the  
programming universe today. I've been leaning in this direction for  
years, drawn strongly to it for the past few months, and have now  
tipped over the edge. Some will think I'm over the edge, alright, but  
perhaps not in the way I intended.

My prediction -- based on a lot of evidence and clinched by two  
leaked Microsoft memos that you really need to read (they're  
indirectly linked in my blog entry) -- is that the days of the  
desktop app are indeed finally numbered. At best, we will see  
desktops reduced to being containers for ultra-thin clients and  
specialized Internet browsing tools while *everything else* runs as a  
(probably ad-supported) Web service.

Yeah, I know. You've heard this before. And there's a lot of  
skepticism here and elsewhere on the Net. But Ray Ozzie's no idiot  
and Microsoft's not ignorant or stupid (whatever else they may well be).

Comments welcome, though I'd appreciate it if you'd register for my  
blog (it's free) and post them there even if you choose to echo them  
here. This issue is much bigger than Rev but it affects everyone on  
this list, IMNSHO.

-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.eclecticity.com




From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov  9 18:42:16 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 15:42:16 -0800
Subject: Find the item a user clicked on...
In-Reply-To: <41FB4BCB-1CE4-4FFC-9A6D-7492D0652379@pandora.be>
References: <445CF03D-E03C-4B57-A8A5-D1FB803F9E6A@pandora.be>
	<39EB5C20-8BFC-4C0F-9E5F-9F4D0A5EE73B@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<3012C3D1-11C9-4F99-A0B3-DA893B61C7CE@danshafer.com>
	<41FB4BCB-1CE4-4FFC-9A6D-7492D0652379@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <B400E2E6-53B4-421A-8DD5-2B1376A0EDF4@danshafer.com>

It's not on my site. I'm just one of the Rev guys hanging out here.  
Chipp Walters did this cool plugin.

You can find a link to it at:

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginCover/about.htm

Once there, click on the "Download Plugins" link in the left column  
and follow the directions. altFldHeader is most of the way down the  
page where the plugins are listed.


On Nov 9, 2005, at 3:08 PM, Ton Kuypers wrote:

> Dan,
>
> I'd love to try it, but where can I find it on your site?
>
> greetings,
>
> Ton
>
>
> On 9-nov-05, at 23:30, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>> Or you could use Altuit's wonderful altFieldHeader plugin (http:// 
>> www.altuit.com) which automates this whole process quite neatly.
>>
>>
>> On Nov 9, 2005, at 1:29 PM, Eric Chatonet wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hi Ton,
>>>
>>> If I understand correctly:
>>> Your headers are the first line of your field and not buttons or  
>>> something else placed above the field?
>>> If it's the case, you can:
>>>
>>> 1. Set the style of each header to "link"
>>> 2. Set the underlineLinks property of your stack to false
>>> 3. Set the different link colors in an appropriate way if needed
>>>
>>> Then the kinks do not appear but do exist and you just need:
>>>
>>> on linkClicked pLink
>>>   <do whatever with pLink>
>>> end linkClicked
>>>
>>> pLink mirrors always the complete header.
>>>
>>> Not sure that is exactly your problem ;-)
>>>
>>> Best Regards from Paris,
>>>
>>> Eric Chatonet.
>>>
>>> Le 9 nov. 05 ? 21:25, Ton Kuypers a ?crit :
>>>
>>>
>>>> I have a small problem, which probably someone has solved a long  
>>>> time ago...
>>>>
>>>> I have a header above a field with columns of data.
>>>> The amount of columns are different each time, the header above  
>>>> the field will differ also each time.
>>>>
>>>> I now would like to sort the items in the field, when a user  
>>>> clicks on one of the words in the header, but how do I know what  
>>>> item the user clicked on?
>>>> I only get the ClickChunk or the ClickText, but who has a clever  
>>>> routine to get the item a user clicked on?
>>>>
>>>> The titles in the header are separated by tabs and can consist  
>>>> of more then one word each.
>>>>
>>>> Any help is welcome :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Warm regards,
>>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>> So Smart Software
>>>
>>> For institutions, companies and associations
>>> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
>>> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>>>
>>> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
>>> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
>>> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
>>> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
>> http://www.shafermedia.com
>> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From Cubist at aol.com  Wed Nov  9 18:42:16 2005
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 18:42:16 EST
Subject: Slow screen refresh in Windows
Message-ID: <1a0.40c4f34e.30a3e358@aol.com>

sez tjframe at gmail.com:
> Try using a JPEG, they are much smaller - that same routine runs in 91
>milliseconds when using a JPEG set at quality level 10 in Photoshop (which
>is nearly loseless). In fact for on-screen use you can save a JPEG down
>to about 5 in Photoshop without any serious degradation in quality.
   Maybe. It *strongly* depends on exactly what's *in* the image you're 
working with. You should always have the "Preview" checkbox checked when you save 
an image as JPEG, so you can see for yourself how badly your image gets 
distorted as you reduce the quality level.
   In addition, you might want to consider Photoshop's Save As Web function, 
which gives you fine-grained control over various adjustments, lets you reduce 
the filesize down to pretty much any arbitrary figure, and also lets you 
compare the untouched image to 1-3 different versions with different sets of 
adjustments. Me, I use Save As Web religiously for all the graphics in my 
fantasy-and-science-fiction webzines TSAT (http://tsat.transform.to or 
http://tsat.xepher.net) and ANTHRO (http://anthrozine.com).


From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Wed Nov  9 18:44:51 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 15:44:51 -0800
Subject: Buggy debugger -- solved?
In-Reply-To: <437217B1.50900@ehug.info>
References: <p06200700bef8cbd78c79@[10.0.1.2]>
	<42D32EF7.4060800@hyperactivesw.com>	<p06200707bef9aaf0d65a@[10.0.1.2]>
	<p06200709bef9d3a05f6f@[10.0.1.2]> <437217B1.50900@ehug.info>
Message-ID: <p06200701bf9836d58e3b@[10.0.1.2]>

Hi Mark,

I guess I submitted BZ report #3086, on 8-26-2005. I think I've 
upgraded to 2.6.1 since then. I originally isolated the problem in 
2.5. It does seem to resemble bug 329, doesn't it?

Maybe Rev should consider putting up a "workaround page" for issues 
like this, when workarounds are available, pending bug fixes. (A wiki 
would serve the same purpose, of course. Maybe that's gonna happen.)


Cheers,


Tim

>Tim,
>
>I would like to know whether you have solved the problem you had 
>with debugging background scripts. If not, feel free to send you 
>stack to me. You can also add your (very good) analysis to bug 329 
>of the Bugzilla database.
>
>In my view, the debugger should never just drop out of debug mode. 
>It should give some feedback to tell the user why it can't continue 
>debugging. If we can figure out what happened with your stack, maybe 
>RunRev can add some proper error handling in the deugger.
>
>Best,
>
>Mark
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Nov  9 18:50:05 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 15:50:05 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:
> My prediction -- based on a lot of evidence and clinched by two  leaked 
> Microsoft memos that you really need to read (they're  indirectly linked 
> in my blog entry) -- is that the days of the  desktop app are indeed 
> finally numbered. At best, we will see  desktops reduced to being 
> containers for ultra-thin clients and  specialized Internet browsing 
> tools while *everything else* runs as a  (probably ad-supported) Web 
> service.

Heaven help those of us who compute on trains and airplanes. :)

The observation from my "Beyond the Browser" article still stands:

    "Many articles have been published extolling the
     virtues of Browser-based applications, but few
    (if any) of these were written in one...?

<http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/netapps.html>

As long as folks use local data, there will be desktop apps.

I would encourage Microsoft to go down this proposed road. If they turn 
MS Word into a browser service it'll finally kill their stranglehold on 
that market, and open it up to word processors that still make sense.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Wed Nov  9 18:47:10 2005
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 18:47:10 -0500
Subject: Imitated multi-thread
Message-ID: <BF97F4AE.4BB7%hershrev@realtorsgroup.us>

Hello, is there a possibility to imitate a multi-thread by using a few
separate stand alones ? If yes how, if not what yes?
Thanks, Hershel



From plsntbreez at mac.com  Wed Nov  9 19:00:13 2005
From: plsntbreez at mac.com (Brian Maher)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 19:00:13 -0500
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>

Dan,

The company I work for tried this model (application service  
provider .. i.e. you rent the software) and it did not work well at  
all.  The simple fact is that people will always want to "own" both  
their data and the app that manipulates it.  Will some people use  
this?  Yes.  Will most use it?  No.

Personally, I see the world eventually moving to more desktop apps  
which use the internet (specifically http/htttps) as a transport  
protocol for data (think desktop app that talks http/htttps to apache  
which in turn invokes the requested cgi/servlet to process the sent  
data and send back a response).

Brian



From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Wed Nov  9 18:58:44 2005
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 18:58:44 -0500
Subject: serios problem with sql command
In-Reply-To: <D43D5D91-93D0-4D5F-A25A-59CB2277E270@system-ini.it>
Message-ID: <BF97F764.4BBD%hershrev@realtorsgroup.us>

On 11/3/05 8:35 AM, "Alessandro Pisoni" <alessandro at system-ini.it> wrote:

Looks like u r missing the "'" surrounding the values.
Hershel
> 
> Bye i have an serios problem with the command revExecuteSQL !!! not
> work into my db sql.
> 
> get revOpenDatabase
> ("MySQL","localhost","Gestionale","alessandropisoni","") //
> alessandropisoni is administrator fullcontrol
> revExecuteSQL it,"INSERT INTO Anagrafica (id, Codice) values (NULL,
> 22)" // not write in my db and in my table why?
> 
> i use now mysql 5 server and mac os x 10.4.3
> I can to do the command sql SELECT and the command   get
> revQueryDatabase(it,"SELECT * FROM Anagrafica") work ok very well!
> 
> 
> Cordiali saluti
> Alessandro Pisoni
> 
> ======================
> System.ini
> Via Grandi 5
> 20062 Cassano d'Adda (MI)
> Tel. 0363-361487 Fax 1782260060 Cell. 335-440150
> URL: www.system-ini.it   email: Info at system-ini.it
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From soapdog at mac.com  Wed Nov  9 19:10:52 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 22:10:52 -0200
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <AF2E3E15-2236-4CBC-8658-29D3F0165C95@mac.com>

Dan,

I was going to comment this on your blog, but I fell this will be a  
big email and I know blog comment engines are not suited for this (by  
the way, where is your RSS feed?).

I read the memos and I follow slashdot, osnews and a couple other  
sites with religious practice, I also am a subscriber for Doctor  
Dobbs Journal for I fell that before anything happens in the world of  
computing, they will shout. I also know that people here are much  
more experienced than I so my takes might sound naive. Well, enough  
off topic talking, let us get on topic.

We've be hearing this for a while, which does not make it true or  
false. The mais question I'd ask is: "Is the Web ready to hijack the  
desktop?". We live in a world of almost ubiquitous networking but  
there are times when one is not network, those times the web cannot  
handle. What if you need to use word processor on a vacation where no  
net access is available. For this kind of task, the desktop will  
always be there, even if the desktop moves toward being a single- 
machine-network. But if we think we're talking about a always present  
network with large enough broadband to make the packed juggling fast  
we need to think about some other issues.

User Interface. Browsers were created to display hypertext. All the  
rest was hacked inside. I know xul can create complex user  
interfaces, but we must remember that using AJAX and that means using  
CSS and HTML to construct user interfaces is not the easiest thing on  
earth. One thing is to worry about linux, windows and macs, other  
thing is to worry about each version of safari, mozilla, firefox for  
each platform, this and we're not even entereing the amazing realm of  
screen resolution and what does pesky little Firefox extensions can  
do with rendering of your website. Meaning it's harder to create a  
user interface for web based apps than it is to create for desktop  
apps. Next problem is session management.

The web was never created to be a place where you needed complex  
session management. Cookies were the simplest thing ever and they  
work fine for simple web stuff like shopping cart and user  
autentication. Now think of all things a desktop app needs to track  
and thing of the stateless nature of the web. Unless people invent  
some new way to store runtime information with a web browser, there  
will be no sane way to track runtime info. If you going to use a mix  
of server stored vars and javascript engine vars in memory then allow  
me to drive you to the most fricking thing ever to appear on your  
AJAX neighbourhood, BOOKMARKS!

We all know about the asynchronous nature of AJAX apps. Keep  
everyhing on the client machine, do asynchronous trips to the server  
when you need info from it. What happens if the user Bookmarks? After  
fiddling with the app, the user goes there and press "add bookmark".  
This add bookmark is not like a "freeze state" from emulators, when  
you try to recall that URL, the things that were on memory will not  
be anymore, this alone can break most AJAX apps. Not only bookmark  
but the most simple go back and go forward of browsers will wreck  
most web apps. Try fiddling with that while gMail is thinking, you'll  
see it getting lost pretty soon.

Meaning, it's hard to present a nice UI, it's hard to track runtime  
data and it's not user friendly, the nature of bookmarks, go forward  
and go back makes the browser experience of AJAX app very bug- 
friendly. I'll not dive into the beauty of Javascript as an app  
development language mixed with HTML, CSS and XML. Note that I havn't  
said things are not possible, but that they are hard to the point of  
being annoying and bug-friendly. That's why I don't think we'll be  
leaving the desktop soon, at least, not until someone present a  
better language than javascript, a better way to track and save  
runtime data than cookies and a better user interface than "hack your  
own".

Now where we stand? We have the dreamcard player which is smaller  
than most browser downloads and solves all kinds of problems quoted  
above. Revolution stacks can handle vars in a sane way, can provide  
any UI we need and can save/restore data easily. And they can be  
loaded on demand from the network. We have the technology everyone is  
looking for and yet, we're also lost. The problem we face is like the  
chicken and egg problem, third party cannot execute rev code if they  
don't download the player, if they're going to download the player  
they might just download a standalone. If we could make the player, a  
plugin and make the browser fetch it if needed, things would be  
easier... The problem is that since everyone and his dog got a  
browser installed, we're trying to hack apps into browser technology  
instead of trying to make a breakthru on network app tech.

We have the dreamcard player which is the most advanced and friendly  
thing ever. Before the dreamcard player, I used REBOL and REBOL had a  
browser plugin which was nice, there was also another solution called  
CURL, even Squeak could load modules on demand and be very user  
friendly. Even OpenDoc could solve such things. AJAX is not the  
answer for me. We need smarter things for me, but still microsoft and  
the other biggies will use AJAX, it's there, it's a buzzword, they  
will create Outlook Web App and it will not be safe (at least not  
with todays technology)

Cheers
andre

PS: ... who would not feel safe writting AJAX apps.

On Nov 9, 2005, at 9:38 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> I almost labeled this post off-topic since our purpose here is to  
> discuss how to use Revolution. But I decided on balance that it  
> affects everyone here, so I left off the [OT].
>
> I've just posted a blog entry at http://www.eclecticity.com/. 
> 3c66aaec that I believe should be of interest to everyone who is in  
> the programming universe today. I've been leaning in this direction  
> for years, drawn strongly to it for the past few months, and have  
> now tipped over the edge. Some will think I'm over the edge,  
> alright, but perhaps not in the way I intended.
>
> My prediction -- based on a lot of evidence and clinched by two  
> leaked Microsoft memos that you really need to read (they're  
> indirectly linked in my blog entry) -- is that the days of the  
> desktop app are indeed finally numbered. At best, we will see  
> desktops reduced to being containers for ultra-thin clients and  
> specialized Internet browsing tools while *everything else* runs as  
> a (probably ad-supported) Web service.
>
> Yeah, I know. You've heard this before. And there's a lot of  
> skepticism here and elsewhere on the Net. But Ray Ozzie's no idiot  
> and Microsoft's not ignorant or stupid (whatever else they may well  
> be).
>
> Comments welcome, though I'd appreciate it if you'd register for my  
> blog (it's free) and post them there even if you choose to echo  
> them here. This issue is much bigger than Rev but it affects  
> everyone on this list, IMNSHO.
>
> -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. 
> -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
> Dan Shafer
> Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
> "Looking at technology from every angle"
> http://www.eclecticity.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov  9 19:14:31 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 16:14:31 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>
	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>

The fact that one such effort failed -- or even that a bunch of such  
efforts failed -- is irrelevant in the face of the new market  
realities. Particularly the ad supported software model is one that I  
think has a tremendous amount of potential to be disruptive.

Some people may well want to continue to pay premium prices for  
software so that they can keep their data on their local drives, but:  
(a) those people will eventually have to give way to the market  
forces if for no other reason than that all the software publishers  
head over there; and (b) there really needn't be a connection between  
where the software is and where the data is unless the user wants  
such a connection.

The success of products like Hotmail and GMail (among others) paves  
the way for this new reality. I know there are a lot of folks who  
think I'm all wet here. It's OK. I'm sticking with my analysis.

Dan

On Nov 9, 2005, at 4:00 PM, Brian Maher wrote:

> Dan,
>
> The company I work for tried this model (application service  
> provider .. i.e. you rent the software) and it did not work well at  
> all.  The simple fact is that people will always want to "own" both  
> their data and the app that manipulates it.  Will some people use  
> this?  Yes.  Will most use it?  No.
>
> Personally, I see the world eventually moving to more desktop apps  
> which use the internet (specifically http/htttps) as a transport  
> protocol for data (think desktop app that talks http/htttps to  
> apache which in turn invokes the requested cgi/servlet to process  
> the sent data and send back a response).
>
> Brian
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov  9 19:16:42 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 16:16:42 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <41D60785-D663-45EA-9EC3-4D7A01F2512D@danshafer.com>

Richard....

You said, quoting from your wonderful "Beyond the Browser" piece:

    "Many articles have been published extolling the
     virtues of Browser-based applications, but few
    (if any) of these were written in one...?

Beg to differ. The Winer blog post that released these articles, the  
blog post that I found that pointed me to them and my blog post were  
all written in a browser-based application. And if you haven't yet  
seen Writely, I suggest you check it out; the day of the service- 
based word processor is soon to be here.

On Nov 9, 2005, at 3:50 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> As long as folks use local data, there will be desktop apps.

There is no necessary connection between where data is and where the  
app is. That's just today's temporary model.




-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.eclecticity.com




From john at debraneys.com  Wed Nov  9 19:18:52 2005
From: john at debraneys.com (John Tregea)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 11:18:52 +1100
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <200511100018.jAA0ItTI000960@mail24.syd.optusnet.com.au>

Hi Dan,

Thanks for this posting, I have now subscribed to your blog. While I am here
I wanted to say that your HyperCard Scripting book was an absolute gem. It
was a pleasure to read and a perfectly structured reference for the
environment. I am looking forward to getting as much pleasure from your
'Revolution' book...

Kind regards

John Tregea
Technology Director
Debraneys
www.debraneys.com

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Dan Shafer
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 10:38 AM
To: Revolution List
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time

I almost labeled this post off-topic since our purpose here is to  
discuss how to use Revolution. But I decided on balance that it  
affects everyone here, so I left off the [OT].

I've just posted a blog entry at http://www.eclecticity.com/.3c66aaec  
that I believe should be of interest to everyone who is in the  
programming universe today. I've been leaning in this direction for  
years, drawn strongly to it for the past few months, and have now  
tipped over the edge. Some will think I'm over the edge, alright, but  
perhaps not in the way I intended.

My prediction -- based on a lot of evidence and clinched by two  
leaked Microsoft memos that you really need to read (they're  
indirectly linked in my blog entry) -- is that the days of the  
desktop app are indeed finally numbered. At best, we will see  
desktops reduced to being containers for ultra-thin clients and  
specialized Internet browsing tools while *everything else* runs as a  
(probably ad-supported) Web service.

Yeah, I know. You've heard this before. And there's a lot of  
skepticism here and elsewhere on the Net. But Ray Ozzie's no idiot  
and Microsoft's not ignorant or stupid (whatever else they may well be).

Comments welcome, though I'd appreciate it if you'd register for my  
blog (it's free) and post them there even if you choose to echo them  
here. This issue is much bigger than Rev but it affects everyone on  
this list, IMNSHO.

-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.eclecticity.com


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Nov  9 19:25:10 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 16:25:10 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <41D60785-D663-45EA-9EC3-4D7A01F2512D@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>
	<41D60785-D663-45EA-9EC3-4D7A01F2512D@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <43729366.4000009@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:
> And if you haven't yet  seen 
> Writely, I suggest you check it out; the day of the service- based word 
> processor is soon to be here.

I did.  One word:  "Eeewww".  :)

As for the getting illustrators to draw in a web browser, or anyone else 
to let Microsoft force them to hand over data storage to them, we'll see.

I'll go so far as to say I see the field growing, definitely.  But I 
don't see it completely replacing desktop apps until the Internet is 
truly ubiquitous and we access it through heads-up displays on small 
systems in our shirt pocket.

So maybe in 10 years, but I'm not ditching all my apps on until then.

I see the world as big enough for both.  But to say it all must be only 
one way sounds too much like Microsoft just overcorrecting a bad turn....

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From soapdog at mac.com  Wed Nov  9 20:29:46 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 23:29:46 -0200
Subject: about drag an image...
Message-ID: <CD18A083-88AD-49F2-B93C-3E9EB2DE80A1@mac.com>

folks,

I can't seem to recall but I think there was some really easy way to  
allow a user to drag a image control around some card, just like  
click and drag, as if he was on development mode... I just want do be  
able to toogle a "drag mode" so that the user can re-org some  
controls on the stack... I remember some silly thing like "drag me"  
but I can't recall just now. Can someone point me in some direction?


cheers
andre


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Nov  9 20:45:33 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 17:45:33 -0800
Subject: about drag an image...
In-Reply-To: <CD18A083-88AD-49F2-B93C-3E9EB2DE80A1@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BF97E63D.249EF%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Andre Garzia  wrote:

> I can't seem to recall but I think there was some really easy way to
> allow a user to drag a image control around some card, just like
> click and drag, as if he was on development mode... I just want do be
> able to toogle a "drag mode" so that the user can re-org some
> controls on the stack... I remember some silly thing like "drag me"
> but I can't recall just now. Can someone point me in some direction?

Almost -- you want the grab command.

Just remember that you can't update anything while this command is
executing, so if you need to track the mouse or some other action during the
drag, you need to roll your own drag routine.

[See the Drag Sample stack in our demo stacks if you need some assistance:
 go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev"]

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Nov  9 21:03:45 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 02:03:45 +0000
Subject: Synchronization puzzle - take care!
In-Reply-To: <839D5BA3-88AE-4644-A3A4-27834C1DD34A@openpartnership.net>
References: <4370DECA.3090208@rtl.org>	<18840ED8-8973-491E-95A2-7298499C3D6F@openpartnership.net>	<437249B5.3040008@tweedly.net>
	<839D5BA3-88AE-4644-A3A4-27834C1DD34A@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <4372AA81.9030907@tweedly.net>

David Bovill wrote:

> Thanks for posting this Alex - word of warning and feature request  
> for RunRev - or is as ever there a way I haven't spotted?
>
> First the warning - downloading the stack "Networked Address Book"  
> from revOnline automatically asked me to locate x,y, z - can't  
> remember - to which I naturally said no - then got myslef into an  
> endless loop of answer dialogues!
>
This is a rough edge I wasn't expecting anything as fundamental as this.

It turns out there is an initialization problem (which of course I 
haven't seen - haven't installed this on a new machine since January).

The start-up sequence is

> 1. read prefs file
> 1a. if there is no prefs file, prompt user for basic data and create one
>    (basic data = machine name and folder to store address book files in)
> 2. read data file(s)
> 2a. if there is no data file, create an empty one and store it in the 
> folder specified in the prefs file
>
> repeat the above steps until both files can be read OK.


Problem 1.
I was omitting step 2a :-(
Now fixed (v 0.9.4, already uploaded to revonline)

Problem 2.
This will not work in the Player in secure mode.
Since there's not much point in an Address Book that can't store its 
data, I'm not going to worry about this.

Problem 3.
Even in non-Secure mode, it doesn't work properly in the Player.
Works fine in the IDE, or as a standalone - but not in the Player.

Since it's not an app that I would expect anyone to run, rather than 
borrow parts of the script, getting it to work in the Player is not a 
priority,  I'll look into it when I have time, and if appropriate open a 
BZ. For now, please download it from revonline using the IDE.


> Now the question is  - is there a way to cancel an answer dialogue?  
> Command period does not work - unless you are lucky and the script  
> loop is long - sometimes I manage to break out. I think it would be  
> very useful if there was a way to do this as the only way I know is  
> to force quit and loose all your unsaved data!
>
> Easy to do - done it many times myself !

Sorry about the problems. I find it's one of the biggest problems with 
Rev's "live IDE" style - it's so hard to ensure that you are properly 
emulating a "cold start".

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 05/11/2005



From martyknapp at comcast.net  Wed Nov  9 21:12:46 2005
From: martyknapp at comcast.net (Marty Knapp)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 18:12:46 -0800
Subject: Repeat for each
In-Reply-To: <43723A03.4090202@tweedly.net>
References: <BF928BBA.2F418%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<43721AEC.50401@comcast.net> <43723A03.4090202@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <4372AC9E.2090205@comcast.net>

Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Marty Knapp wrote:
>
>>
>> I've been tinkering with this a bit and wanted to ask a few more 
>> questions. Again, my data set is 8 items with all but one being a 
>> number. I need to be able to select a subset by analysing 1 or more 
>> of these items. My current data set is approx 128,000 records. When I 
>> filter the data on the item that contains words, it's pretty fast - 
>> about 1 second (I have an old Mac G4-single processor 867mgz, and 
>> running Rev 2.2.1) The speed is exactly the same whether I use the 
>> above method or just 'filter theData with "*word*"'
>>
> That seems terribly slow to me :-)


That's what I thought! Interestingly enough in my repeat for each loop I 
had "set cursor to busy" and that's what was bring this thing to its 
knees. I knew that a progress indicator was a hog, but had no idea that 
this would take such a heavy toll. Searches that were running 5 minutes 
now take about 5 seconds. That still isn't terribly fast - maybe my 
older computer is to blame? Are there any speed improvements between the 
current version of Rev and mine (2.2.1)?

Here's a line from my data: 61187,digital camera 
driver,1.18,3219,3450000,1071,4,9.1

And a typical repeat loop:

  repeat for each line theLine in sourceData
    if item 7 of theLine >50 and item 8 of theLine >2 then put theLine & 
return after allResults
  end repeat


Marty


From tjframe at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 21:53:03 2005
From: tjframe at gmail.com (TJ Frame)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 19:53:03 -0700
Subject: Slow screen refresh in Windows
In-Reply-To: <1a0.40c4f34e.30a3e358@aol.com>
References: <1a0.40c4f34e.30a3e358@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7348a9e80511091853s54f22afdjcc33fdcf93ded833@mail.gmail.com>

Well large solid color spaces surrounded by text will show show a bit of
artifacting at level 5, but for most photos 5 or 6 is fine. Besides you can
always bump it up if you need better quality. Either way they are way faster
than using BMPS, at least on my system.

On 11/9/05, Cubist at aol.com <Cubist at aol.com> wrote:
>
> sez tjframe at gmail.com:
> > Try using a JPEG, they are much smaller - that same routine runs in 91
> >milliseconds when using a JPEG set at quality level 10 in Photoshop
> (which
> >is nearly loseless). In fact for on-screen use you can save a JPEG down
> >to about 5 in Photoshop without any serious degradation in quality.
> Maybe. It *strongly* depends on exactly what's *in* the image you're
> working with. You should always have the "Preview" checkbox checked when
> you save
> an image as JPEG, so you can see for yourself how badly your image gets
> distorted as you reduce the quality level.
> In addition, you might want to consider Photoshop's Save As Web function,
> which gives you fine-grained control over various adjustments, lets you
> reduce
> the filesize down to pretty much any arbitrary figure, and also lets you
> compare the untouched image to 1-3 different versions with different sets
> of
> adjustments. Me, I use Save As Web religiously for all the graphics in my
> fantasy-and-science-fiction webzines TSAT (http://tsat.transform.to or
> http://tsat.xepher.net) and ANTHRO (http://anthrozine.com).
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov  9 22:17:11 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 19:17:11 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <AF2E3E15-2236-4CBC-8658-29D3F0165C95@mac.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<AF2E3E15-2236-4CBC-8658-29D3F0165C95@mac.com>
Message-ID: <B242E38D-5EF9-49E3-85D2-8454723988FC@danshafer.com>

Andre....

Actually, my blog accommodates arbitrarily large posts and comments,  
but it's fine that you reply here.

On Nov 9, 2005, at 4:10 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> (by the way, where is your RSS feed?)

On the left side of the page there's a large orange XML button that  
will get you my feed.

> What if you need to use word processor on a vacation where no net  
> access is available.

There will, of course, be situations like this. I'm not exactly sure  
what the solution looks like. I suspect that it could take one of two  
forms. Either there is a local proxy Web server ("proxy" not meant in  
the usual technical sense but in the more common sense of a stand-in)  
that interacts with you while you're offline and that auto- 
synchronizes your work when you are reconnected. That's certainly  
pretty feasible. The Web apps that you use could be cached locally  
where your local browser can access them if and as necessary. This is  
hardly a difficult problem in any case.

>  it's harder to create a user interface for web based apps than it  
> is to create for desktop apps

If you've looked at some of the tool sets for handling the creation  
of UIs in Rich Internet Applications (RIAs), of which AJAX is a  
subset technology, then you know that while it is presently somewhat  
more difficult, this is likely a temporary condition. As the demand  
for them grows, UI tools will be developed and offered and they will  
get better and better.

> Not only bookmark but the most simple go back and go forward of  
> browsers will wreck most web apps. Try fiddling with that while  
> gMail is thinking, you'll see it getting lost pretty soon.

I agree this is a challenge but again it's not really difficult to  
overcome. Kiosk-type Web apps deal with this by the simple expedient  
of removing the back and forward arrows in the browser UI. Bookmarks  
can either be disabled or made more intelligent so that they work  
either with cookies or with some other session management technique  
to overcome the brain-dead nature of static bookmarks. For many years  
there have been bookmarklets that contain JavaScript and behave more  
intelligently and contextually aware than standard bookmarks.

> That's why I don't think we'll be leaving the desktop soon, at  
> least, not until someone present a better language than javascript,  
> a better way to track and save runtime data than cookies and a  
> better user interface than "hack your own".

To me, this smacks of the argument that essentially says, "We tried  
that once and it didn't work so now we have something better." I'm  
arguing that with the clout of a Microsoft behind AJAX style  
applications and with literally tens of thousands -- perhaps hundreds  
of thousands of trained JavaScripters available as a developer pool  
-- this thing has a life that is much larger than your view gives it  
credit for being. And FWIW, I happen to *like* JavaScript. I like the  
fact that it's object oriented. I like the simplicity of most of its  
syntax (though some of it makes me crazy; same is true of Transcript  
for that matter). I like the fact that I can mix it freely in Web  
pages (a huge drawback for Transcript for the kinds of apps I want to  
build) and I like the fact that there are so many great libraries and  
tools for it.

> he problem is that since everyone and his dog got a browser  
> installed, we're trying to hack apps into browser technology  
> instead of trying to make a breakthru on network app tech.

Which I translate: "The problem is the real world doesn't understand  
what we could do for it." True, but not a problem that I see being  
able to overcome.

=========

It's early in the cycle. Even though DHTML, of which AJAX is a small  
variant, has been around for eight or more years, still this  
technology is getting a fresh look. And it's not being driven by  
Microsoft; rather, the behemoth is now running to catch up. Early  
adopters have to put up with stuff that later-round users will find  
fixed or smoothed over. That doesn't mean AJAX isn't a sound or  
useful technology, only that it's early.

And of course I talked about AJAX but there are other technologies I  
referred to as AJAX-like, such as Laszlo (http:// 
www.laszlosystems.com) that use not DHMTL but Flash files as their  
output format and which are far easier to adapt to cross-platform  
browser deployment.

Now, don't get me wrong. For the ultrathin client apps we do have to  
build, Rev is a great answer. And if Rev had a Web plugin that would  
go a ways toward solving the problem of trying to use Rev for  
Internet-aware applications. But even then, you have a sizable  
download and many -- perhaps most -- users won't download anything to  
their desktops any longer, let alone plugins for their browsers.

At the end of the day, though, I am not so much defending AJAX (which  
hardly needs or benefits from my defense of it) as I am trying to  
point out the absolute inevitability of this new trend becoming  
dominant. It has too many things going *for* it and the objections  
are all subject to technological solutions and therefore they will be  
solved. You get out in front of the curve or you find yourself  
relegated to a space where new development is lagging the rest of the  
market.




-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.eclecticity.com




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Nov  9 22:37:19 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 04:37:19 +0100
Subject: Imitated multi-thread
In-Reply-To: <BF97F4AE.4BB7%hershrev@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <20051110030005.3F497825029@mail.runrev.com>

Hi Hershel

Yes it's possible. You can do so via sockets or files or
sql to communicate among the different parts of your applications.

Note that each method has it's advantages and inconveniences.

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Hershel Fisch
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 00:47
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Imitated multi-thread
> 
> Hello, is there a possibility to imitate a multi-thread by 
> using a few separate stand alones ? If yes how, if not what yes?
> Thanks, Hershel
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  9 22:51:16 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 19:51:16 -0800
Subject: examples accepting appleevents
In-Reply-To: <7D623811-16F9-40E6-8155-8F65D5E2CF5F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BF9803B4.30418%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Hello,

On 11/6/05 8:55 PM, "Andre Garzia" <soapdog at mac.com> wrote:
> I am doing that right now, if you want I can build a sample stack for
> you and send to you tomorrow (it's 2:53 AM now, am not thinking well)

It has been a few days now, and I was wondering if Andre actually did write
the sample stack.  I would be interested in knowing more about the
Applescript techniques involved.  I have done a few of my own, but don't
have the time to explore or optimize.

Thanks,

 Jim Ault
Las Vegas 

> 
> On Nov 7, 2005, at 2:43 AM, kee nethery wrote:
> 
>> Can someone point me to where I might go to see an example of one
>> stack communicating with another stack via appleevents (on MacOSX)?
>> I'm not exactly sure how to pass data via appleevents and have the
>> other app catch them and reply back.
>> 
>> Want to pass the data that would be needed to send an email message
>> and then get back a response saying the email was sent.
>> 
>> I know this is simple, just have not figured it out. I can send
>> commands to pre-existing apps and make them sing and dance. But
>> I've no clue how to send commands when there is no dictionary.
>> 
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Kee Nethery
> 
> Kee,
> 
> I am doing that right now, if you want I can build a sample stack for
> you and send to you tomorrow (it's 2:53 AM now, am not thinking well)
> 
> There's a message called AppleEvent that you can use to handle events.
> There's "send to program" that you can use to send events.
> There's "request from program" that also sends events.
> There's "reply to program" that does the reply.
> 
> cheers.
> andre
> 
> 
> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Nov  9 23:13:17 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 05:13:17 +0100
Subject: Find the item a user clicked on...
In-Reply-To: <B400E2E6-53B4-421A-8DD5-2B1376A0EDF4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <20051110033602.3F613824D88@mail.runrev.com>

Hi Dan

The link in the article http://www.scriptiong.com is not working

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Dan Shafer
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 00:42
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Find the item a user clicked on...
> 
> It's not on my site. I'm just one of the Rev guys hanging out here.  
> Chipp Walters did this cool plugin.
> 
> You can find a link to it at:
> 
> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginCover/about.htm
> 
> Once there, click on the "Download Plugins" link in the left 
> column and follow the directions. altFldHeader is most of the 
> way down the page where the plugins are listed.
> 
> 
> On Nov 9, 2005, at 3:08 PM, Ton Kuypers wrote:
> 
> > Dan,
> >
> > I'd love to try it, but where can I find it on your site?
> >
> > greetings,
> >
> > Ton
> >
> >
> > On 9-nov-05, at 23:30, Dan Shafer wrote:
> >
> >> Or you could use Altuit's wonderful altFieldHeader plugin (http://
> >> www.altuit.com) which automates this whole process quite neatly.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Nov 9, 2005, at 1:29 PM, Eric Chatonet wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Hi Ton,
> >>>
> >>> If I understand correctly:
> >>> Your headers are the first line of your field and not buttons or 
> >>> something else placed above the field?
> >>> If it's the case, you can:
> >>>
> >>> 1. Set the style of each header to "link"
> >>> 2. Set the underlineLinks property of your stack to false 
> 3. Set the 
> >>> different link colors in an appropriate way if needed
> >>>
> >>> Then the kinks do not appear but do exist and you just need:
> >>>
> >>> on linkClicked pLink
> >>>   <do whatever with pLink>
> >>> end linkClicked
> >>>
> >>> pLink mirrors always the complete header.
> >>>
> >>> Not sure that is exactly your problem ;-)
> >>>
> >>> Best Regards from Paris,
> >>>
> >>> Eric Chatonet.
> >>>
> >>> Le 9 nov. 05 ? 21:25, Ton Kuypers a ?crit :
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> I have a small problem, which probably someone has solved a long 
> >>>> time ago...
> >>>>
> >>>> I have a header above a field with columns of data.
> >>>> The amount of columns are different each time, the 
> header above the 
> >>>> field will differ also each time.
> >>>>
> >>>> I now would like to sort the items in the field, when a 
> user clicks 
> >>>> on one of the words in the header, but how do I know 
> what item the 
> >>>> user clicked on?
> >>>> I only get the ClickChunk or the ClickText, but who has a clever 
> >>>> routine to get the item a user clicked on?
> >>>>
> >>>> The titles in the header are separated by tabs and can 
> consist of 
> >>>> more then one word each.
> >>>>
> >>>> Any help is welcome :-)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Warm regards,
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> So Smart Software
> >>>
> >>> For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order 
> >>> applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> >>> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
> >>>
> >>> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> >>> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> >>> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> >>> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> >>> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author 
> >> http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: 
> Software at the 
> >> Speed of Thought"
> >> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-revolution mailing list
> >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
> http://www.shafermedia.com
> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>  From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Nov  9 23:17:45 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 05:17:45 +0100
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <AF2E3E15-2236-4CBC-8658-29D3F0165C95@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20051110034030.21BE4824D88@mail.runrev.com>

 
> We have the dreamcard player which is the most advanced and 
> friendly thing ever. Before the dreamcard player, I used 
> REBOL and REBOL had a browser plugin which was nice, there 
> was also another solution called CURL, even Squeak could load 
> modules on demand and be very user friendly. Even OpenDoc 
> could solve such things. AJAX is not the answer for me. We 
> need smarter things for me, but still microsoft and the other 
> biggies will use AJAX, it's there, it's a buzzword, they will 
> create Outlook Web App and it will not be safe (at least not 
> with todays technology)
> 
> Cheers
> andre
> 
> PS: ... who would not feel safe writting AJAX apps.

Andre, 

you are very right but a dreamcard application can be just as
unsafe or malignous as any spyware or trojan. Ajax is supposed
to be safe and im sure many industry standards will evolve to
support that. It has been a requirement for Java, javascript,
I don't see it stopping there.

Be it in outlook or in a form based email, it doesn't change the
fact that it's useful and if the gui's can be enhanced, that much
better. Many users do not have the choice to install apps like
dreamcard on their desktops because of corporate security policy
or cyber-cafe safety. 

On the other hand and just to counter Richard's quote

    "Many articles have been published extolling the
     virtues of Browser-based applications, but few
    (if any) of these were written in one..."

Any PHPNuke article (or xoops, xnuke, wiki, etc...) have shown it
is possible - how the end article is delivered, is another story
yet many other websites have demoed this as viable with pdf, doc,
html output. Other systems, like wiki, allow also rich content 
editing among many... 

Other apps 100's of thousands of corporate users need are SAP, B2B, 
log servers, google, googlemaps, etc... Extending this is obvious. 
Having the right framework to do so (phpnuke, wiki, forum servers, 
etc) have shown the way... The big problem as Andre says, it's they 
are not easy to program, let alone for each OS, each browser, each 
screen size.

So while it is possible to deliver better than ajax products with
Dreamcard, there remains lots to be done in marketing or product
visibility of rev so that it can become accepted as a "standard".

I still think a DreamCard plugin is the way to go if this is get
anywhere otherwise, your RevHTML server or cgi framework is just
going to be doing xtalk (yep, like asp) with php, xml and or sql. 

And that's not the point for the RunRev developper. 

And until someone makes "components" for downloading to make ajax
like apps (working on the desktop via dreamcard), the number of
applications that are as flexible as real desktop applications 
(like an Office suite of tools), is always going to be limited. 

For example, the RevOnline stack. It's parts are not parts. The 
content can be changed but not the tools. It would be cool if
the next time you clicked on news or users, you would get a
newer and more capable/efficient gui each time...  I think that
the edge of Ajax is there... Not that it's not possible in rev
but until we work on it, it's not going to get far anytime soon.

This is why I've been working on modularizing and standardizing
every GUI possible in HyperCard - and the point is that it ported
to MC and rev almost without any rewrite... The program stayed the
same! And to my big surprise, PHPNuke, Wiki servers are written
the same way... Maybe there's something to be considered there...

Im sure there's lots to be said in the subject... The question is
not how to make a better web service but rather when is a web 
service or application better than a desktop application or service?

Ajax solves part of the speed and functionality problems but it still
requires local storage (like java applets). This is where server-side
apps like javascript, dhtml, xul (?), and the browser keep the 
upper hand - at the cost of delivery speed (if that's a consideration).

cheers
Xavier





From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov  9 23:38:34 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 20:38:34 -0800
Subject: Find the item a user clicked on...
In-Reply-To: <20051110033602.3F613824D88@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051110033602.3F613824D88@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3055C9D4-6DA1-4BD8-8298-82DB93A7D6F5@danshafer.com>

Thanks. Fixed.

Dan

On Nov 9, 2005, at 8:13 PM, MisterX wrote:

> Hi Dan
>
> The link in the article http://www.scriptiong.com is not working
>
> cheers
> Xavier
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>> Dan Shafer
>> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 00:42
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: Re: Find the item a user clicked on...
>>
>> It's not on my site. I'm just one of the Rev guys hanging out here.
>> Chipp Walters did this cool plugin.
>>
>> You can find a link to it at:
>>
>> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginCover/about.htm
>>
>> Once there, click on the "Download Plugins" link in the left
>> column and follow the directions. altFldHeader is most of the
>> way down the page where the plugins are listed.
>>
>>
>> On Nov 9, 2005, at 3:08 PM, Ton Kuypers wrote:
>>
>>> Dan,
>>>
>>> I'd love to try it, but where can I find it on your site?
>>>
>>> greetings,
>>>
>>> Ton
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9-nov-05, at 23:30, Dan Shafer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Or you could use Altuit's wonderful altFieldHeader plugin (http://
>>>> www.altuit.com) which automates this whole process quite neatly.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 9, 2005, at 1:29 PM, Eric Chatonet wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Ton,
>>>>>
>>>>> If I understand correctly:
>>>>> Your headers are the first line of your field and not buttons or
>>>>> something else placed above the field?
>>>>> If it's the case, you can:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Set the style of each header to "link"
>>>>> 2. Set the underlineLinks property of your stack to false
>> 3. Set the
>>>>> different link colors in an appropriate way if needed
>>>>>
>>>>> Then the kinks do not appear but do exist and you just need:
>>>>>
>>>>> on linkClicked pLink
>>>>>   <do whatever with pLink>
>>>>> end linkClicked
>>>>>
>>>>> pLink mirrors always the complete header.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure that is exactly your problem ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards from Paris,
>>>>>
>>>>> Eric Chatonet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 9 nov. 05 ? 21:25, Ton Kuypers a ?crit :
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a small problem, which probably someone has solved a long
>>>>>> time ago...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a header above a field with columns of data.
>>>>>> The amount of columns are different each time, the
>> header above the
>>>>>> field will differ also each time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I now would like to sort the items in the field, when a
>> user clicks
>>>>>> on one of the words in the header, but how do I know
>> what item the
>>>>>> user clicked on?
>>>>>> I only get the ClickChunk or the ClickText, but who has a clever
>>>>>> routine to get the item a user clicked on?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The titles in the header are separated by tabs and can
>> consist of
>>>>>> more then one word each.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any help is welcome :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Warm regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> So Smart Software
>>>>>
>>>>> For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order
>>>>> applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
>>>>> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>>>>>
>>>>> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
>>>>> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
>>>>> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
>>>>> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
>>>> http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution:
>> Software at the
>>>> Speed of Thought"
>>>> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
>> http://www.shafermedia.com
>> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>>  From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
>> your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Nov 10 00:23:55 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 06:23:55 +0100
Subject: focus on group
Message-ID: <20051110044639.EA9ED82503D@mail.runrev.com>

Hi everyone,

Hoping for a solution...

I got the xosmedialib stack which has a group showing images in a scrollable
grid. The grid is 2D, x columns by y rows.

You can click on an image in the group (or a list of the images) and it
selects the image in the group. The selection is shown with a button behind
the image just to show which img is selected. If you type an arrow key it
selects the image up, down, left, or right of the last one selected. So far
so easy.

But the arrowkey handler is problematic. The arrowkey is detected ok, I
calculate which image to select, hilite the right image in the image list
field and send a to it to update the image selection. But the focus in the
group is lost.

So if the user needs to do arrow down for example again, he cant. 

So I tried the focus me, focus this group, focus (the long name of this
group) and none work. I checked the revdocs and the group's traversalon is
true. Yet... The focus command refuses to focus on the group (which works
since I clicked on it and it had the keyboard focus when I typed the
arrowkey)...

The script is like this...

Group
  on arrowkey
    select next image
    send mouseup to fld list
    focus on me <- error no matter what

  on mouseup
     find the right image/zone clicked
     select image in list
     send mouseup to fld list

List field
  on mouseup
     find image coordinates
     select image

So, is the revdocs wrong or is this a bug? Seems like a bug to me...
Maybe I can trick the mouseup to "focus" the group but it seems like a
workaround...

Any nice and easy solutions?

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Nov 10 00:55:01 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 06:55:01 +0100
Subject: Buggy debugger -- solved?
In-Reply-To: <p06200701bf9836d58e3b@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <20051110051744.D1194825047@mail.runrev.com>

I don't know if this is related but I think I found a serious engine bug

put the selectedtext of btn "view" of grp "Objects"

I have a btn view of group objects and also a btn View of grp Index of grp
Objects...

And this last one is the one that gets called!!!

There's a possible problem with background objects and their references
which
may explain why the debugger also gets lost! Further testing coming, results
in 
a bugzilla either way...

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Timothy Miller
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 00:45
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Buggy debugger -- solved?
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> I guess I submitted BZ report #3086, on 8-26-2005. I think 
> I've upgraded to 2.6.1 since then. I originally isolated the 
> problem in 2.5. It does seem to resemble bug 329, doesn't it?
> 
> Maybe Rev should consider putting up a "workaround page" for 
> issues like this, when workarounds are available, pending bug 
> fixes. (A wiki would serve the same purpose, of course. Maybe 
> that's gonna happen.)
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> Tim
> 
> >Tim,
> >
> >I would like to know whether you have solved the problem you 
> had with 
> >debugging background scripts. If not, feel free to send you stack to 
> >me. You can also add your (very good) analysis to bug 329 of the 
> >Bugzilla database.
> >
> >In my view, the debugger should never just drop out of debug mode. 
> >It should give some feedback to tell the user why it can't continue 
> >debugging. If we can figure out what happened with your stack, maybe 
> >RunRev can add some proper error handling in the deugger.
> >
> >Best,
> >
> >Mark
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Nov 10 00:54:28 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 23:54:28 -0600
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>
	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <4372E094.3020901@chipp.com>



Dan Shafer wrote:
> The fact that one such effort failed -- or even that a bunch of such  
> efforts failed -- is irrelevant in the face of the new market  
> realities. Particularly the ad supported software model is one that I  
> think has a tremendous amount of potential to be disruptive.

I hope 'ad supported software model' doesn't go the way of the last 
internet version of 'ad supported software model'! As you recall, the 
last ad based models showed up at the beginning of the WWW, and was 
instantly proclaimed the next great business model. Many companies lost 
their shirts believing this. Now, internet advertising is seen as 
something 'no so great' at best, and 'bothersome spyware' at worst.

-Chipp



From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Nov 10 01:12:33 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 00:12:33 -0600
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <4372E4D1.7050007@chipp.com>

Hi Dan,

You of course know, I'm with Richard and Andre on this. Perhaps even 
further left of them. My experience with Application Service Providers 
tell me it's very difficult to persuade the enterprise to take advantage 
of such technologies, especially from outside the firewall. And if 
Enterprise doesn't adopt the technology, then I don't give it much of a 
chance.

Frankly, I still think AJAX is the flavor of the month in California, 
where flavors of the month are mostly born. I believe this for many of 
the reasons already stated.

But,here's another reason:

18 months ago I spent some time with the CTO of Quest communications in 
Dallas. I was surprised to see his computer running WinNT when both Win 
2000 and Win XP were available. His comment was something along the 
lines of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it.' He understands, it is 
important to keep up to date, but he mentioned being responsible for 
something like 2000 computers. Factoring in costs like downtime, 
retraining, and licensing fees brought him to the decision that the 
gains just weren't worth the effort. I think many CTO's are now more 
budget-minded and I'm sure BOD's are wary of out-of-control technology 
budgets, especially when it's obvious the productivity gains just are 
not showing themselves.

Speaking of productivity, I'm not so sure, deep mask interfaces with 
glowing pulsing buttons and expose like task management really helps 
users 'get more done'.

You and I and most everyone on this list know of good...no GREAT 
software we have used in the past, which is no longer available..but our 
fonts are now anti-aliased!

Programs like Claris Impact, Claris CAD, MORE, the old versions of Flash 
which were easy to script, MacWrite, MacPaint and MacDraw. Some of these 
STILL have no equal (imo, mostly thanks to the illegal efforts of MS). 
That's where one finds productivity gains, in the software and what it 
can do, not in whether it runs in a browser or on the desktop.

Good discussion,

best,

Chipp



From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Nov 10 01:19:27 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 00:19:27 -0600
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <20051110034030.21BE4824D88@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051110034030.21BE4824D88@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4372E66F.3080501@chipp.com>



MisterX wrote:

> Andre, 
> 
> you are very right but a dreamcard application can be just as
> unsafe or malignous as any spyware or trojan. Ajax is supposed
> to be safe and im sure many industry standards will evolve to
> support that. It has been a requirement for Java, javascript,
> I don't see it stopping there.

All one needs to do is add a certificate capability to a RR plugin (or 
helper app more likely) and you've reinvented ActiveX. Because, Xavier, 
it turns out you really do need to go 'outside the sandbox' to develop 
full and robust applications. Can you see Photoshop as an AJAX app? So 
the current sandbox limited versions of Java and Javascript just can't 
do it. If so, then why haven't we seen even one commercial mainstream 
app developed with Java?


> For example, the RevOnline stack. It's parts are not parts. The 
> content can be changed but not the tools. It would be cool if
> the next time you clicked on news or users, you would get a
> newer and more capable/efficient gui each time...  I think that
> the edge of Ajax is there... Not that it's not possible in rev
> but until we work on it, it's not going to get far anytime soon.

All of our apps have used our own MagicCarpet Auto-updating Architecture 
which can easily change the GUI at any time.

> Im sure there's lots to be said in the subject... The question is
> not how to make a better web service but rather when is a web 
> service or application better than a desktop application or service?

Well said.



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Nov 10 01:36:06 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 22:36:06 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <41D60785-D663-45EA-9EC3-4D7A01F2512D@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>
	<41D60785-D663-45EA-9EC3-4D7A01F2512D@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <9253965498.20051109223606@ahsoftware.net>

Dan-

Wednesday, November 9, 2005, 4:16:42 PM, you wrote:

> There is no necessary connection between where data is and where the
> app is. That's just today's temporary model.

That may be true, but according to UNESCO's 3 November report on
Knowledge versus Information Societies 11 percent of the world's
population has access to the internet. And that's not talking about
wired-in broadband connection - this includes dialup and folks who
simply have access to internet cafes and such.

http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0014/001418/141843e.pdf

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From sunshine at public.kherson.ua  Thu Nov 10 01:38:04 2005
From: sunshine at public.kherson.ua (Ruslan Zasukhin)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 08:38:04 +0200
Subject: serios problem with sql command
In-Reply-To: <D43D5D91-93D0-4D5F-A25A-59CB2277E270@system-ini.it>
Message-ID: <BF98B76C.42075%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>

On 11/3/05 3:35 PM, "Alessandro Pisoni" <alessandro at system-ini.it> wrote:

Hi Alessandro, 

> Bye i have an serios problem with the command revExecuteSQL !!! not
> work into my db sql.
 

> revExecuteSQL it,"INSERT INTO Anagrafica (id, Codice) values (NULL,
> 22)" // not write in my db and in my table why?
> 
> i use now mysql 5 server and mac os x 10.4.3

> I can to do the command sql SELECT and the command   get
> revQueryDatabase(it,"SELECT * FROM Anagrafica") work ok very well!

------
> On 11/10/05 1:10 AM, "Harvey Toyama" <harvey.toyama at qlogic.com> wrote:

> then it looks like you forgot the semicolon, e.g.,
> 
> revExecuteSQL it,"INSERT INTO Anagrafica (id, Codice) values (NULL,
> 22);"


I do not think so. Semicolon is optional here
It is required only if you have several SQL commands.


------
> On 11/10/05 1:58 AM, "Hershel Fisch" <hershrev at realtorsgroup.us> wrote:

> Looks like u r missing the "'" surrounding the values.
> Hershel

No, because NULL is keyword, and numbers as 22 go without quotes.
Single quote is required only around string constants.


----------
Alessandro,

I think you should check if some error code is reported.

All looks correct in your query. I do not see any logical mistake.
So or some db problems or some db structure gifts, e.g. If field ID
specified that it can get NULLs ?


-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]




From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Thu Nov 10 02:32:26 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 08:32:26 +0100
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <4372E66F.3080501@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <OF4EC17551.507C8EC9-ONC12570B5.00287FEC-C12570B5.00296AE9@deutsche-boerse.com>

Chipp said

> 
> MisterX wrote:
> 
> > Andre, 
> > 
> > you are very right but a dreamcard application can be just as
> > unsafe or malignous as any spyware or trojan. Ajax is supposed
> > to be safe and im sure many industry standards will evolve to
> > support that. It has been a requirement for Java, javascript,
> > I don't see it stopping there.
> 
> All one needs to do is add a certificate capability to a RR plugin (or 
> helper app more likely) and you've reinvented ActiveX. Because, Xavier, 
> it turns out you really do need to go 'outside the sandbox' to develop 
> full and robust applications. Can you see Photoshop as an AJAX app? So 
> the current sandbox limited versions of Java and Javascript just can't 
> do it. If so, then why haven't we seen even one commercial mainstream 
> app developed with Java?

While i dont see photoshop "yet", i never thought either something like
flash was possible before i saw it. OK, flash is not ajax but what of
maps.google.com? The satellite maps? That's a step into the right
direction and i would have never imagined that possible out of flash
on a browser...

As far as Java mainstream applications, you have SAP for intranets
used by thousands, B2B applications, P2P (azureus for example which
beats lots of compiled apps), most web banking applications too (i
work in a clearing bank, and no java would mean the end of electronic
transactions in many cases)... It's not photoshop, granted but how
useful is photoshop in a webbrowser when you can have the real thing
on a more efficient desktop application? Again, mainstream "practical"
use is what's a stake with ajax, moft web office etc...

> > For example, the RevOnline stack. It's parts are not parts. The 
> > content can be changed but not the tools. It would be cool if
> > the next time you clicked on news or users, you would get a
> > newer and more capable/efficient gui each time...  I think that
> > the edge of Ajax is there... Not that it's not possible in rev
> > but until we work on it, it's not going to get far anytime soon.
> 
> All of our apps have used our own MagicCarpet Auto-updating Architecture 

> which can easily change the GUI at any time.

Good to know...

We seem to be working on very parallel themes and tools ;)

cheers
Xavier


-----------------------------------------
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From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Thu Nov 10 02:59:04 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 23:59:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <4372E4D1.7050007@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511092358230.7751-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Chipp,

Amen!

Judy

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Programs like Claris Impact, Claris CAD, MORE, the old versions of Flash
> which were easy to script, MacWrite, MacPaint and MacDraw. Some of these
> STILL have no equal (imo, mostly thanks to the illegal efforts of MS).
> That's where one finds productivity gains, in the software and what it
> can do, not in whether it runs in a browser or on the desktop.



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Nov 10 03:03:34 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 00:03:34 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <4372E66F.3080501@chipp.com>
References: <20051110034030.21BE4824D88@mail.runrev.com>
	<4372E66F.3080501@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <5A168EB8-E48E-4DD8-8C15-E19CC7B14A24@mangomultimedia.com>

On Nov 9, 2005, at 10:19 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:
>
>> For example, the RevOnline stack. It's parts are not parts. The  
>> content can be changed but not the tools. It would be cool if
>> the next time you clicked on news or users, you would get a
>> newer and more capable/efficient gui each time...  I think that
>> the edge of Ajax is there... Not that it's not possible in rev
>> but until we work on it, it's not going to get far anytime soon.
>
> All of our apps have used our own MagicCarpet Auto-updating  
> Architecture which can easily change the GUI at any time.

I just wanted to second what Chipp is saying here.  My company has a  
similar architecture built into our applications built with  
Revolution.  Our educational software has all the benefits of being  
kept up to date (both the application and educational content  
presented inside the application) using the internet plus it can be  
used for learning and referencing when people are on the road, in an  
airplane or at a doctor's office that has no internet connection.

The web browser is not the internet.  You can have all of benefits  
that the internet provides in robust, user-friendly desktop  
software.  When I started developing the software that my company  
sells, I decided to leave web applications behind.  They just don't  
provide the user experience, nor provide the features required by the  
software my company produces.  Each time we go to add features or  
make our architecture a little more robust, I'm really glad that we  
settled on Revolution as our development environment.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Thu Nov 10 03:04:42 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 00:04:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <9253965498.20051109223606@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511092359430.7751-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Indeed,

Just today I was at my "office" in my university's "satellite" campus at
the old El Toro marine base.

No wi-fi.

Network speed is simply gawdawful.

Something like two or three public access Macs (I'm a Mac user).

Man, I'd  hate like heck to have to rely on thin clients and the like.

(I had a bad day: I couldn't even d/l and install iTunes to grab a tune I
wanted to use to illustrate the problems of offensive speech to my
students [Tom Lehrer's 1959 recording of "Smut"]).

:-/

Judy

On Wed, 9 Nov 2005, Mark Wieder wrote:

> That may be true, but according to UNESCO's 3 November report on
> Knowledge versus Information Societies 11 percent of the world's
> population has access to the internet. And that's not talking about
> wired-in broadband connection - this includes dialup and folks who
> simply have access to internet cafes and such.
>
> http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0014/001418/141843e.pdf



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Thu Nov 10 03:05:08 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 09:05:08 +0100
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511092358230.7751-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <OFCCFF0C84.8747C054-ONC12570B5.002C2E82-C12570B5.002C6933@deutsche-boerse.com>

fuel for the ajax fire ;)

http://books.slashdot.org/books/05/11/09/1555231.shtml?tid=156&tid=6

i particularly liked the comment that said "Good Java programmers use 
Python"... ;)

no talk of rev there though... But lots of worthy comments in the 
context...
---------------------=---------------------
Xavier Bury

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 10/11/2005 08:59:04:

> Chipp,
> 
> Amen!
> 
> Judy
> 
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2005, Chipp Walters wrote:
> 
> > Programs like Claris Impact, Claris CAD, MORE, the old versions of 
Flash
> > which were easy to script, MacWrite, MacPaint and MacDraw. Some of 
these
> > STILL have no equal (imo, mostly thanks to the illegal efforts of MS).
> > That's where one finds productivity gains, in the software and what it
> > can do, not in whether it runs in a browser or on the desktop.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
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recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
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this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
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END OF DISCLAIMER


From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Nov 10 03:30:57 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 00:30:57 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <OFCCFF0C84.8747C054-ONC12570B5.002C2E82-C12570B5.002C6933@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OFCCFF0C84.8747C054-ONC12570B5.002C2E82-C12570B5.002C6933@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <CD8B13AD-ECA7-424D-BFA9-B70ACB984FEF@danshafer.com>

Thanks for the pointer, Xavier. Some cogent comments in amongst the  
usual /. chaff.

Dan

On Nov 10, 2005, at 12:05 AM, xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:

> fuel for the ajax fire ;)
>
> http://books.slashdot.org/books/05/11/09/1555231.shtml?tid=156&tid=6
>
> i particularly liked the comment that said "Good Java programmers use
> Python"... ;)
>
> no talk of rev there though... But lots of worthy comments in the
> context...
> ---------------------=---------------------
> Xavier Bury
>
> use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 10/11/2005 08:59:04:
>
>> Chipp,
>>
>> Amen!
>>
>> Judy
>>
>> On Thu, 10 Nov 2005, Chipp Walters wrote:
>>
>>> Programs like Claris Impact, Claris CAD, MORE, the old versions of
> Flash
>>> which were easy to script, MacWrite, MacPaint and MacDraw. Some of
> these
>>> STILL have no equal (imo, mostly thanks to the illegal efforts of  
>>> MS).
>>> That's where one finds productivity gains, in the software and  
>>> what it
>>> can do, not in whether it runs in a browser or on the desktop.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
> recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
> standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.
>
> Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
>
> IMPORTANT MESSAGE
>
> Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
> International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
> this message.
>
> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
> legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you  
> are
> not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
> any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
> prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
> those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
> states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
> its affiliates or subsidiaries.
>
> END OF DISCLAIMER
> _______________________________________________
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> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
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From darkshadow1 at metrocast.net  Thu Nov 10 03:37:49 2005
From: darkshadow1 at metrocast.net (Preston Shea)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 03:37:49 -0500
Subject: Distribute objects
Message-ID: <002c01c5e5d2$088bf510$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>

Has anyone got a button script to distribute equally (horizontally or vertically) the space between a bunch of selected objects? I miss this from SuperCard. Thanks.

From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Thu Nov 10 03:56:09 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 08:56:09 +0000
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <9253965498.20051109223606@ahsoftware.net>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>
	<41D60785-D663-45EA-9EC3-4D7A01F2512D@danshafer.com>
	<9253965498.20051109223606@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <3EE13F25-60B0-4E77-A6BD-047300553F4A@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 10 Nov 2005, at 06:36, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Dan-
>
> Wednesday, November 9, 2005, 4:16:42 PM, you wrote:
>
>> There is no necessary connection between where data is and where the
>> app is. That's just today's temporary model.
>
> That may be true, but according to UNESCO's 3 November report on
> Knowledge versus Information Societies 11 percent of the world's
> population has access to the internet. And that's not talking about
> wired-in broadband connection - this includes dialup and folks who
> simply have access to internet cafes and such.
>
> http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0014/001418/141843e.pdf

But I wonder if the percentage of the world's population who have  
access to a computer is much above the same 11 percent figure. Among  
my own non-computing friends and family members who have or are  
thinking of buying a computer, the "net" is the basic reason they  
need/want one. The point being that we can probably assume that  
computer-access and net-access will come to mean much the same thing.

However, this doesn't mean I support the view that "where the data  
is" is no longer important. That remains to be seen.

Dave



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Thu Nov 10 04:08:52 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 10:08:52 +0100
Subject: Distribute objects
In-Reply-To: <002c01c5e5d2$088bf510$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
Message-ID: <OF44D82024.CDA7196C-ONC12570B5.003194DA-C12570B5.00323F28@deutsche-boerse.com>

Here's one from GIM, my Geometry Interface Manager library (used in TAOO)
I stripped the non-related statements.

Funny, i had just adjusted it a couple of days earlier ;)

on DistributeWidthsTo objs,tObj
  local t, tdiv, startx, stopx
  put the width of tObj into t
 
    put (t-Delta) div (the number of lines in objs) into tdiv
    put the left of tObj+Delta into startx
    --put 8 into startx
    put the right of tObj into stopx

  repeat for each line l in objs
    try
      set the width of l to (tdiv - Delta)
      set the left of l to startx
      add tdiv to startx
    catch err
      if "taoodebug" is in the stacks then TAOODebugAddLogEntry l & cr & 
err
     else answer "Error in DistributeWidthsTo execution:" && err -- 
replace with answer or put into msg if no taoo debug stack
    end try
  end repeat
end DistributeWidthsTo

to use it...

on resizestack
  -- distribute buttons
  put the long name of btn "script" of me & cr & \
      the long name of btn "start" of me & cr & \
      the long name of btn "help" of me & cr & \
      the long name of btn "save" of me & cr & \
      the long name of btn "close" of me into objs
 
  DistributeWidthsTo objs, the long name of me
 end resizestack

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo


> Has anyone got a button script to distribute equally (horizontally 
> or vertically) the space between a bunch of selected objects? I miss
> this from SuperCard. Thanks.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
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recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
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END OF DISCLAIMER


From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Nov 10 04:12:29 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 09:12:29 +0000
Subject: Slow screen refresh in Windows
In-Reply-To: <1a0.40c4f34e.30a3e358@aol.com>
References: <1a0.40c4f34e.30a3e358@aol.com>
Message-ID: <43730EFD.5020203@tweedly.net>

Cubist at aol.com wrote:

>
>   In addition, you might want to consider Photoshop's Save As Web function, 
>which gives you fine-grained control over various adjustments, lets you reduce 
>the filesize down to pretty much any arbitrary figure, and also lets you 
>compare the untouched image to 1-3 different versions with different sets of 
>adjustments.
>
The other advantage of "Save to Web..." compared to simply "Save as ..." 
is that Save to Web will strip out all EXIF data, whereas Save As will 
leave it in. In some cases, that can save you 50k in your file size, for 
no loss of (desired) functionality.

Conversely, don't use Save to Web .... just to get smaller versions of 
your own photos, because you'll lose all the interesting, useful info on 
date/time taken, camera settings, WB, focal length, shutter speed, etc.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 05/11/2005



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Nov 10 04:17:27 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 01:17:27 -0800
Subject: Distribute objects
In-Reply-To: <002c01c5e5d2$088bf510$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
Message-ID: <BF985027.24A4C%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Preston Shea  wrote:

> Has anyone got a button script to distribute equally (horizontally or
> vertically) the space between a bunch of selected objects?

There is a button for this in the Inspector that is available by selecting
multiple objects and choosing Align Objects from the inspector's pull-down
menu.  If you need the script for your own project, I believe you can copy
the script out of the inspector (anyone know the official policy on this?).

Alternatively, if you're just looking for a convenient tool for distribution
and alignment, we offer an plugin for this called tm|align -- visit
http://www.tactilemedia.com and select the Media tab.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Nov 10 06:15:09 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 11:15:09 +0000
Subject: Repeat for each
In-Reply-To: <4372AC9E.2090205@comcast.net>
References: <BF928BBA.2F418%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<43721AEC.50401@comcast.net>
	<43723A03.4090202@tweedly.net> <4372AC9E.2090205@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <43732BBD.9080606@tweedly.net>

Marty Knapp wrote:

> Alex Tweedly wrote:
>
>> Marty Knapp wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I've been tinkering with this a bit and wanted to ask a few more 
>>> questions. Again, my data set is 8 items with all but one being a 
>>> number. I need to be able to select a subset by analysing 1 or more 
>>> of these items. My current data set is approx 128,000 records. When 
>>> I filter the data on the item that contains words, it's pretty fast 
>>> - about 1 second (I have an old Mac G4-single processor 867mgz, and 
>>> running Rev 2.2.1) The speed is exactly the same whether I use the 
>>> above method or just 'filter theData with "*word*"'
>>>
>> That seems terribly slow to me :-)
>
>
>
> That's what I thought! Interestingly enough in my repeat for each loop 
> I had "set cursor to busy" and that's what was bring this thing to its 
> knees. I knew that a progress indicator was a hog, but had no idea 
> that this would take such a heavy toll. Searches that were running 5 
> minutes now take about 5 seconds. 

Not too surprising - if you want to keep the busy cursor (worth it for a 
5 sec loop, IMHO), I'd put it into a conditional

   add 1 to tBusyCounter
   if tBusyCounter mod 1000 = 0 then set cursor to busy

> That still isn't terribly fast - maybe my older computer is to blame? 
> Are there any speed improvements between the current version of Rev 
> and mine (2.2.1)?
>
Yes there are some documented ones (e.g. replace char substring with 
another of the same length is dramatically faster than it used to be, I 
believe since 2.2.1).
In this case (with my existing data and code), seems to be no more than 
twice as fast (or half as fast).

(I tested this both with and without "suspend dev tools" in case that 
made a difference)

       filter     repeat for
2.2.1     180        103  
2.2.1     179        104      suspended

2.5       180        110 
2.5       179        104      suspended

2.6.1      98        180     (1)
2.6.1     100        400     (2)   suspended

(1) it looks as though filter got some speed improvements, while 
something slowed down the repeat for loop.

(2) I have no clue why suspending dev tools should have a *negative* 
effect on the reported speed.



-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 05/11/2005



From david at openpartnership.net  Thu Nov 10 06:21:30 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:21:30 +0100
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <A04554D2-CFF1-4EF5-A7A9-6384499115C1@openpartnership.net>

On 10 Nov 2005, at 00:38, Dan Shafer wrote:

> I almost labeled this post off-topic since our purpose here is to  
> discuss how to use Revolution. But I decided on balance that it  
> affects everyone here, so I left off the [OT].
>
> I've just posted a blog entry at http://www.eclecticity.com/. 
> 3c66aaec that I believe should be of interest to everyone who is in  
> the programming universe today. I've been leaning in this direction  
> for years, drawn strongly to it for the past few months, and have  
> now tipped over the edge. Some will think I'm over the edge,  
> alright, but perhaps not in the way I intended.
>
> My prediction -- based on a lot of evidence and clinched by two  
> leaked Microsoft memos that you really need to read (they're  
> indirectly linked in my blog entry) -- is that the days of the  
> desktop app are indeed finally numbered. At best, we will see  
> desktops reduced to being containers for ultra-thin clients and  
> specialized Internet browsing tools while *everything else* runs as  
> a (probably ad-supported) Web service.
>
> Yeah, I know. You've heard this before. And there's a lot of  
> skepticism here and elsewhere on the Net. But Ray Ozzie's no idiot  
> and Microsoft's not ignorant or stupid (whatever else they may well  
> be).
>
> Comments welcome, though I'd appreciate it if you'd register for my  
> blog (it's free) and post them there even if you choose to echo  
> them here. This issue is much bigger than Rev but it affects  
> everyone on this list, IMNSHO.

Sort of Dan :)

Totally agree about the importance of Web Services - they will take  
all comers by storm over the next 2 years - read my lips :) However,  
as a prediction I am betting (my work at least) that you miss  
something. Web browsers suck - the idea of a universal client that  
can display and present every conceivable user application is daft.  
Standards based web services, using xHTMl, XML, or other even more  
simple to parse data formats - yes. A rich variety of "browsers" =  
clients that use this data and display desktop grade interfaces -  
yes. But standard HTML browser based thin clients - no.

What you will see is more "plugins" for Browsers - the main advantage  
of FireFox. What you will see is many other "browsers" emerging to  
take advantage of these web services - blog tools, outliners, chat  
clients, video browsers. Some may be based on embedded browser  
technology - web toolkits and Mozilla, some written in their own  
languages - python, ruby, java (forget php) - the various languages  
beginning with C. What you will see is more "zero install" clients -  
think java applets and downloadable Rev stacks.

Regarding Revolution - I am sure that a number of us from this list  
are very hopeful that Rev can position itself as a premier tool fro  
creating these clients. To do this - well? Firstly, I'd emphasise  
some things that maybe are not stressed high enough up the request list:

     - cross platform video support - think vlc?

     - placing Rev in the context of large open source projects -  
think web services and development frameworks.

     - a real market for developer community contributed web services  
and zero-instal components - think security, digital signatures and  
certificates, based on an existing open and strong online community  
(you don't build these things overnight - thanks Scott).

     - Unicode

The block I have is the issue of JavaScript - can Rev do without a  
Javascript interpreter in this world? You can sort of use the open  
scripting architecture on Macs to script Revolution using Javascript  
- but this is not cross-platform and probably flaky - I only did  
brief testing a couple of years ago... I think the answer is "yes" -  
but maybe it is "no"?

From John.Thornton at gb.mahle.com  Thu Nov 10 06:24:23 2005
From: John.Thornton at gb.mahle.com (Thornton, John)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 11:24:23 -0000
Subject: Run/Edit mode
Message-ID: <2AC7D7ECB6CC2C4D912B478A066E802270CA25@ukcoswnhm0002.uk.cosworth-technology.local>

Thanks Dan,
I'm off and running now.... 

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Dan Shafer [mailto:revdan at danshafer.com] 
Sent:	08 November 2005 17:07
To:	How to use Revolution
Subject:	Re: Run/Edit mode

What event triggers the request for the user to input the  
information? That event appears not to be triggered when you simply  
switch from edit mode to run mode, which would figure because that  
action doesn't trigger an event we usually trap for.

Assuming, e.g., that your stack asks for this information in an  
openStack handler, then after you switch to run mode, type into the  
message box "send 'openStack' to stack 'foo'" (and you can leave out  
the stack if it's the only one in memory or you're certain it's the  
topstack.

All Rev actions occur in response to events. Your stack is being  
polite, waiting for an event before it does anything!


On Nov 8, 2005, at 7:22 AM, Thornton, John wrote:

> Dear People,
> I run Linux Redhat version of Revolution Studio version 2.6.1.   
> When I try to build a stack and cards, the first card is to ask for  
> info from the user.  This works if I save the stack, exit the stack  
> and reload the stack into Revolution and press the Run mode  
> button.  However, I cannot get the damn thing to run from the  
> beginning and ask the user for the required info, simply by  
> switching from Edit mode to Run mode.  Am I missing a vital step,  
> or the switch from Edit mode to Run mode not working properly?
>
> Regards
>
> JohnT
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html





From david at openpartnership.net  Thu Nov 10 06:25:56 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:25:56 +0100
Subject: Synchronization puzzle - take care!
In-Reply-To: <4372AA81.9030907@tweedly.net>
References: <4370DECA.3090208@rtl.org>	<18840ED8-8973-491E-95A2-7298499C3D6F@openpartnership.net>	<437249B5.3040008@tweedly.net>
	<839D5BA3-88AE-4644-A3A4-27834C1DD34A@openpartnership.net>
	<4372AA81.9030907@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <6BC0E735-B38F-4B48-896E-426237D22A55@openpartnership.net>

On 10 Nov 2005, at 03:03, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Sorry about the problems. I find it's one of the biggest problems  
> with Rev's "live IDE" style - it's so hard to ensure that you are  
> properly emulating a "cold start".

Not at all - thanks for sharing it!


From david at openpartnership.net  Thu Nov 10 07:41:21 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 13:41:21 +0100
Subject: Basic focus issue!
In-Reply-To: <6BC0E735-B38F-4B48-896E-426237D22A55@openpartnership.net>
References: <4370DECA.3090208@rtl.org>	<18840ED8-8973-491E-95A2-7298499C3D6F@openpartnership.net>	<437249B5.3040008@tweedly.net>
	<839D5BA3-88AE-4644-A3A4-27834C1DD34A@openpartnership.net>
	<4372AA81.9030907@tweedly.net>
	<6BC0E735-B38F-4B48-896E-426237D22A55@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <E107EC6A-2982-4A13-A948-8867FBD4773A@openpartnership.net>

Not that i am not focussed or anything - just these pesky Rev fields :)

With the Address Book I am trying to deal really properly with their  
edibility - click on them and they change appearance (come to the  
front) click elsewhere and they fade back into the background. The  
problem with closefield is that it is not sent if the user does not  
change the text. There are hacks for this - no? What's the best?

Been trying to get it to work with the following messages - at  
various places - but having a problems - any solutions out there?

on focusIn
     select_Editable true
   -- pass focusIn
end focusIn

on openField
     select_Editable true
     pass openField
end openField

on focusOut
     select_Editable false
     pass focusOut
end focusOut

on closeField
     select_Editable false
     pass closeField
end closeField




From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Thu Nov 10 07:51:20 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 13:51:20 +0100
Subject: Basic focus issue!
In-Reply-To: <E107EC6A-2982-4A13-A948-8867FBD4773A@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <OF26E76FCE.8E6C5464-ONC12570B5.004611FB-C12570B5.00469D1A@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi David

You could add a background script handler that you trigger on any focusIn 
to send a focusout
message to the other fields... 

Since you know when focusin or openfield happens, you can easily send the
focus out to that last field recorded (in a global or custom prop...)

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 10/11/2005 13:41:21:

> Not that i am not focussed or anything - just these pesky Rev fields :)
> 
> With the Address Book I am trying to deal really properly with their 
> edibility - click on them and they change appearance (come to the 
> front) click elsewhere and they fade back into the background. The 
> problem with closefield is that it is not sent if the user does not 
> change the text. There are hacks for this - no? What's the best?
> 
> Been trying to get it to work with the following messages - at 
> various places - but having a problems - any solutions out there?
> 
> on focusIn
>      select_Editable true
>    -- pass focusIn
> end focusIn
> 
> on openField
>      select_Editable true
>      pass openField
> end openField
> 
> on focusOut
>      select_Editable false
>      pass focusOut
> end focusOut
> 
> on closeField
>      select_Editable false
>      pass closeField
> end closeField
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
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recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

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International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
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END OF DISCLAIMER


From dominik.hruz at nextra.at  Thu Nov 10 08:23:50 2005
From: dominik.hruz at nextra.at (Dominik Hruza)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:23:50 +0100
Subject: pull down menu
Message-ID: <6DEFB0A0-695A-4D9E-8C67-680726AC3F77@nextra.at>

Hello,

i just started working with the program designing the interface for  
an adressbook

i want to get rid of the 3D effect in the menu of a pull down button,  
but set a background color and so on to the menu that appears.

thanks
.d


From david at openpartnership.net  Thu Nov 10 08:36:35 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:36:35 +0100
Subject: pull down menu
In-Reply-To: <6DEFB0A0-695A-4D9E-8C67-680726AC3F77@nextra.at>
References: <6DEFB0A0-695A-4D9E-8C67-680726AC3F77@nextra.at>
Message-ID: <4A217A39-0B18-4EF0-9ABA-8A5B387AB37E@openpartnership.net>

Yeah - I don't know how to do it either :)


On 10 Nov 2005, at 14:23, Dominik Hruza wrote:

> Hello,
>
> i just started working with the program designing the interface for  
> an adressbook
>
> i want to get rid of the 3D effect in the menu of a pull down  
> button, but set a background color and so on to the menu that appears.
>
> thanks


From david at openpartnership.net  Thu Nov 10 08:39:58 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:39:58 +0100
Subject: Basic focus issue - solved!
In-Reply-To: <OF26E76FCE.8E6C5464-ONC12570B5.004611FB-C12570B5.00469D1A@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OF26E76FCE.8E6C5464-ONC12570B5.004611FB-C12570B5.00469D1A@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <72F063A1-D541-4F40-8168-D128D7E058CE@openpartnership.net>

on mouseEnter
   set the lockText of me to false
end mouseEnter

on mouseLeave
   set the lockText of me to true
end mouseLeave

on openField
     set the backgroundColor of me to red
     --pass focusIn
end openField

on focusIn
     set the backgroundColor of me to red
     --pass focusIn
end focusIn

on focusOut
     set the backgroundColor of me to green
     --pass focusOut
end focusOut

on closeField
     set the backgroundColor of me to green
     --pass closeField
end closeField

Not figured out why exactly - but adding the mouseEnter/leave lock/ 
unlock bits - gets you the result you want - editable fields that you  
can handle their appearance as the focus changes.

Just create a new stack - add one plain field - paste the scripts  
above - clone the field as many times as you want. Not tested in  
groups and complex situations - still happy for now.



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Thu Nov 10 08:43:34 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:43:34 +0100
Subject: pull down menu
In-Reply-To: <4A217A39-0B18-4EF0-9ABA-8A5B387AB37E@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <OFF3BC6584.C89BAF45-ONC12570B5.004AE6DA-C12570B5.004B6558@deutsche-boerse.com>

Mac, Windows?

Which 3D effect? button or the menu itself?

The menu itself, i dont think you can get rid off from within rev. However 
in the winXP/2003 settings, you can
remove the effects, including the shadows and what have you visual gadgets 
that make menus drop
slower than slow via the desktop properties or Display prefs in the 
control panels. So maybe there's a
similar option in osx... 

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 10/11/2005 14:36:35:

> Yeah - I don't know how to do it either :)
> 
> 
> On 10 Nov 2005, at 14:23, Dominik Hruza wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > i just started working with the program designing the interface for 
> > an adressbook
> >
> > i want to get rid of the 3D effect in the menu of a pull down 
> > button, but set a background color and so on to the menu that appears.
> >
> > thanks
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
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recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
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END OF DISCLAIMER


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Thu Nov 10 08:55:16 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 08:55:16 -0500
Subject: how to reject a mouse
Message-ID: <B8BCD082-9CBB-4CEC-A34F-0F7B7941766C@conncoll.edu>

I'm not sure if this is related to the recent "Basic focus issue"  
thread or not.

I want to be able (on the basis of whether another button is enabled  
or not) to refuse the attentions of any mouse-clicks in a field that  
I'm using as a scrollable list. Trapping mouseUp and/or mouseDown  
seems not to work (unless I've done something else wrong).

Is there a right way to do this?

Charles Hartman



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Thu Nov 10 09:01:12 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:01:12 +0100
Subject: how to reject a mouse
In-Reply-To: <B8BCD082-9CBB-4CEC-A34F-0F7B7941766C@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <OF7ECB34E1.0764086A-ONC12570B5.004CC3DB-C12570B5.004D02D5@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Charles

set the autoselect of the field and eventually the traversalON to false
set the locktext to true of course...

OR

simply disable the field (visual change)...

cheers
Xavier


use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 10/11/2005 14:55:16:

> I'm not sure if this is related to the recent "Basic focus issue" 
> thread or not.
> 
> I want to be able (on the basis of whether another button is enabled 
> or not) to refuse the attentions of any mouse-clicks in a field that 
> I'm using as a scrollable list. Trapping mouseUp and/or mouseDown 
> seems not to work (unless I've done something else wrong).
> 
> Is there a right way to do this?
> 
> Charles Hartman
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From david at openpartnership.net  Thu Nov 10 09:17:09 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:17:09 +0100
Subject: how to reject a mouse
In-Reply-To: <OF7ECB34E1.0764086A-ONC12570B5.004CC3DB-C12570B5.004D02D5@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OF7ECB34E1.0764086A-ONC12570B5.004CC3DB-C12570B5.004D02D5@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <54244354-E437-441D-BCBE-9B8EE8E6D188@openpartnership.net>

Did a quick experiment - try putting this script in a scrolling field:

on mouseDown
     if the autohilite of me is true then
         put the params
     end if
end mouseDown

on mouseUp
     if the autohilite of me is true then
         put the params
     end if
end mouseUp

and then changing the autohilite of the scrolling field - works for  
these messages and keeps the hilited line fixed - if thats what you  
want?




On 10 Nov 2005, at 15:01, xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:

> Hi Charles
>
> set the autoselect of the field and eventually the traversalON to  
> false
> set the locktext to true of course...
>
> OR
>
> simply disable the field (visual change)...
>
> cheers
> Xavier
>
>
> use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 10/11/2005 14:55:16:
>
>
>> I'm not sure if this is related to the recent "Basic focus issue"
>> thread or not.
>>
>> I want to be able (on the basis of whether another button is enabled
>> or not) to refuse the attentions of any mouse-clicks in a field that
>> I'm using as a scrollable list. Trapping mouseUp and/or mouseDown
>> seems not to work (unless I've done something else wrong).
>>
>> Is there a right way to do this?
>>
>> Charles Hartman


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Thu Nov 10 09:53:58 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 09:53:58 -0500
Subject: how to reject a mouse
In-Reply-To: <OF7ECB34E1.0764086A-ONC12570B5.004CC3DB-C12570B5.004D02D5@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OF7ECB34E1.0764086A-ONC12570B5.004CC3DB-C12570B5.004D02D5@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <C0B56496-DED2-4309-876D-18D7C04457CF@conncoll.edu>

Perfect -- disabling the field produces just the right visual message  
for the user. Thanks!

Charles


On Nov 10, 2005, at 9:01 AM, xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:

> Hi Charles
>
> set the autoselect of the field and eventually the traversalON to  
> false
> set the locktext to true of course...
>
> OR
>
> simply disable the field (visual change)...
>
> cheers
> Xavier
>
>
> use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 10/11/2005 14:55:16:
>
>> I'm not sure if this is related to the recent "Basic focus issue"
>> thread or not.
>>
>> I want to be able (on the basis of whether another button is enabled
>> or not) to refuse the attentions of any mouse-clicks in a field that
>> I'm using as a scrollable list. Trapping mouseUp and/or mouseDown
>> seems not to work (unless I've done something else wrong).
>>
>> Is there a right way to do this?
>>
>> Charles Hartman
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
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From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Thu Nov 10 09:54:54 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 09:54:54 -0500
Subject: how to reject a mouse
In-Reply-To: <54244354-E437-441D-BCBE-9B8EE8E6D188@openpartnership.net>
References: <OF7ECB34E1.0764086A-ONC12570B5.004CC3DB-C12570B5.004D02D5@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<54244354-E437-441D-BCBE-9B8EE8E6D188@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <058A9712-7F5B-42E1-A887-6AC967B0837A@conncoll.edu>

That will be very helpful for another little problem I seem looming  
down the road. For this instance, the simpler method of disabling the  
field works fine. Thank you.

Charles


On Nov 10, 2005, at 9:17 AM, David Bovill wrote:

> Did a quick experiment - try putting this script in a scrolling field:
>
> on mouseDown
>     if the autohilite of me is true then
>         put the params
>     end if
> end mouseDown
>
> on mouseUp
>     if the autohilite of me is true then
>         put the params
>     end if
> end mouseUp
>
> and then changing the autohilite of the scrolling field - works for  
> these messages and keeps the hilited line fixed - if thats what you  
> want?
>
>
>
>
> On 10 Nov 2005, at 15:01, xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:
>
>> Hi Charles
>>
>> set the autoselect of the field and eventually the traversalON to  
>> false
>> set the locktext to true of course...
>>
>> OR
>>
>> simply disable the field (visual change)...
>>
>> cheers
>> Xavier
>>
>>
>> use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 10/11/2005 14:55:16:
>>
>>
>>> I'm not sure if this is related to the recent "Basic focus issue"
>>> thread or not.
>>>
>>> I want to be able (on the basis of whether another button is enabled
>>> or not) to refuse the attentions of any mouse-clicks in a field that
>>> I'm using as a scrollable list. Trapping mouseUp and/or mouseDown
>>> seems not to work (unless I've done something else wrong).
>>>
>>> Is there a right way to do this?
>>>
>>> Charles Hartman
> _______________________________________________
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> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
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From martyknapp at comcast.net  Thu Nov 10 10:48:05 2005
From: martyknapp at comcast.net (Marty Knapp)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 07:48:05 -0800
Subject: Repeat for each
In-Reply-To: <43732BBD.9080606@tweedly.net>
References: <BF928BBA.2F418%kray@sonsothunder.com>	<43721AEC.50401@comcast.net>	<43723A03.4090202@tweedly.net>
	<4372AC9E.2090205@comcast.net> <43732BBD.9080606@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <43736BB5.2010205@comcast.net>

 >>That's what I thought! Interestingly enough in my repeat for each 
loop I had "set cursor to busy" and that's what was bring this thing to 
its knees. I knew that a progress >>indicator was a hog, but had no idea 
that this would take such a heavy toll. Searches that were running 5 
minutes now take about 5 seconds.
 >>Not too surprising - if you want to keep the busy cursor (worth it 
for a 5 sec loop, IMHO), I'd put it into a conditional

  >add 1 to tBusyCounter
  >if tBusyCounter mod 1000 = 0 then set cursor to busy

It's just been a habit of mine to se the cursor to busy, but have never 
considered that it could be slowing things down so much. Thanks for you 
input on this Alex (and others) I appreciate it.


Marty Knapp


From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Nov 10 11:22:44 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 08:22:44 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>
	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>
	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>

Dan, et al:

>Some people may well want to continue to pay premium prices for
>software so that they can keep their data on their local drives, but:
>(a) those people will eventually have to give way to the market
>forces if for no other reason than that all the software publishers
>head over there;

They won't be forced if some vendors continue to make desk-top apps 
available, and those vendors will have a greater share of of this 
"smaller (?)" market if major vendors abandon it.

>and (b) there really needn't be a connection between
>where the software is and where the data is unless the user wants
>such a connection.

And, at least last time I checked, many do:

Shortly before I left the FlexWare world, I was called in on a 
project to link FlexWare with an eCommerce package.  The project was 
was scoped out between the two software vendors and moi, then the 
client who requested the link was brought into the loop.  Once the 
client realized that his company's customer, product, price, and 
sales data would reside on an off-site computer owned and run by 
another company, he pullled the plug.

This does not mean a company couldn't find some advantages in 
browser-driven INTRAnet apps.  But a lot of smaller companies (a) 
don't need a network that spans more than one physical location, and 
(b) lack the resources to build & maintain one.

Also, how do the economics work if each user wants a different 
version if the app?  For a decade and a half I made my living 
tweaking FlexWare accounting modules to work the way a single company 
wanted it to work.  I never ceased to be amazed at how much even 
small companies are willing to invest to have a system that works the 
way they do business instead of being forced to change their business 
or accounting procedures to meet the requirements of packaged 
software.  And after the economics, what are the logistics of 
maintaing multiple versions of the same browser-driven app for different users?

Finally, Andre's point about all the other ways data must be created 
and maintained before & after a web commerce transaction is well taken.

Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
  Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

  from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) 



From dominik.hruz at nextra.at  Thu Nov 10 06:57:45 2005
From: dominik.hruz at nextra.at (Dominik Hruza)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:57:45 +0100
Subject: pull down menu
Message-ID: <E8360893-8E38-455E-974D-1992DBABE465@nextra.at>

Hi,

i just started working with the program designing the interface for  
an adressbook

i want to get rid of the 3D effect in the menu of a pull down button,  
but set a background color and so on to the menu that appears.

thanks
.d

  
  


From david at openpartnership.net  Thu Nov 10 08:57:29 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:57:29 +0100
Subject: Basic focus issue - slight fix!
In-Reply-To: <72F063A1-D541-4F40-8168-D128D7E058CE@openpartnership.net>
References: <OF26E76FCE.8E6C5464-ONC12570B5.004611FB-C12570B5.00469D1A@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<72F063A1-D541-4F40-8168-D128D7E058CE@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <0FC3012A-2F4A-4890-8C15-FB29A60A6A92@openpartnership.net>

-- to prevent rapid mouse movements making rev think the target is  
the card or something else...
-- probably even better / safer to give all the fields a custom  
property and check that

on mouseEnter
     put the long id of the target into focussedRecord
     if word 1 of focussedRecord is "field" then
         set the lockText of focussedRecord to false
     end if
end mouseEnter

on mouseLeave
     put the long id of the target into focussedRecord
     if word 1 of focussedRecord is "field" then
         set the lockText of focussedRecord to true
     end if
end mouseLeave
--
on openField
     put the long id of the target into focusRecord
     select_Editable true, focusRecord
     --pass focusIn
end openField

on focusIn
     put the long id of the target into focusRecord
     select_Editable true, focusRecord
     --pass focusIn
end focusIn

on focusOut
     put the long id of the target into focusRecord
     select_Editable false, focusRecord
     --pass focusOut
end focusOut

on closeField
     put the long id of the target into focusRecord
     select_Editable false, focusRecord
    --pass closeField
end closeField

From rcozens at pon.net  Thu Nov 10 11:29:49 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 08:29:49 -0800
Subject: about drag an image...
In-Reply-To: <CD18A083-88AD-49F2-B93C-3E9EB2DE80A1@mac.com>
References: <CD18A083-88AD-49F2-B93C-3E9EB2DE80A1@mac.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.10.1.20051110082628.019dc530@pon.net>

Hi Andre,

>just want do be
>able to toogle a "drag mode" so that the user can re-org some
>controls on the stack... I remember some silly thing like "drag me"
>but I can't recall just now. Can someone point me in some direction

local lastImagePosition

on mouseDown
    put the loc of me into lastImagePosition
end mouseDown

on mouseMove
    get the mouseloc
    if it is within the boundingRect of me then set the loc of me to it
    else set the loc of me to lastImagePosition -- back to original 
loc if cursor leaves boundingRect
end mouseMove

works for me.

Set the image's boundingRect property to constrain the portion of the 
window the image can reside in.

Rob Cozens

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free...
  it expects what never was and never will be."

  -Thomas Jefferson  



From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Nov 10 11:47:49 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:47:49 -0200
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>
	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>
	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>
	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>
Message-ID: <187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>

Folks,

one thing we're ignoring on this thread but that is a very important  
issue. The cost for the developer to deliver desktop apps versus the  
cost to deliver web apps. This is a major issue for small developers  
such as me. For example imagine my old blog client called BlogWorkz.  
It's a desktop app that allows you to post to Blogger API 1.0 enabled  
blogs, the main selling point of this tool was: "It frees you from  
tedious logins and cabalistic HTML Interfaces." and that was the main  
reason people bought the shareware. It's a simple app and probably  
could be cloned to AJAX in some days without loosing any huge  
Interface experience. BlogWorkz and it's former cousin iBlog have,  
counting only versiontracker, near 15 thousand downloads. If I was to  
run an iBlog/BlogWorkz AJAX app that could support thousands of  
customers I would need: a big server, a huge pipe to the internet,  
probably would use some RDBMS to store user settings and data (I  
don't have such experience on serving thousands custormers). My  
server would need periodical backups and some backup server case the  
main one falls or I'll face user riots. This just to serve thousands,  
which is not a very high number for me to profit on advertisements.  
BlogWorkz sells for cheap $10, this price is not enough to cover my  
cost developing it and pay for all the structure needed to serve it  
as AJAX app. No way I could use AJAX advertising paradigm on the  
softwares I am building, I am too small for that.

That's one reason why I think the BIG ones will do some AJAX as  
flavour of the month (or year) and the small developers will keep to  
the desktop, desktop is cheaper and easier to deliver. For the big  
ones is also a question of pride and image, like "Hey Microsoft,  
Google is winning over you, saw their online apps? You can't do that,  
you're lame!!!". The Big players are not only in it for the money,  
but they must also, avoid loosing face. I just want to deliver nice  
software, it's not a matter of pride.

The plot tickens.
Andre


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Nov 10 11:49:03 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 08:49:03 -0800
Subject: Basic focus issue!
In-Reply-To: <E107EC6A-2982-4A13-A948-8867FBD4773A@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <BF98B9FF.24A97%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, David Bovill  wrote:

> With the Address Book I am trying to deal really properly with their
> edibility - click on them and they change appearance (come to the
> front) click elsewhere and they fade back into the background. The
> problem with closefield is that it is not sent if the user does not
> change the text. There are hacks for this - no? What's the best?

The docs should explain:

 closeField is sent when the field's contents have been changed

 exitField is sent when the field's contents have *not* been changed

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Nov 10 12:38:43 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 09:38:43 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <A04554D2-CFF1-4EF5-A7A9-6384499115C1@openpartnership.net>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<A04554D2-CFF1-4EF5-A7A9-6384499115C1@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <B13B935B-AF49-489C-A0DE-33189A383F94@danshafer.com>

I do not disagree, David. I don't necessarily think that either AJAX  
or RIAs in general need be confined to the existing standard browser.  
I mentioned specialized browsers specifically in my post. I just  
think these specialized browsers will be ultrathin, designed to  
facilitate access to the "application" (which I suspect quickly  
becomes a sort of outmoded notion as the lines blur) on the server or  
the grid.

On Nov 10, 2005, at 3:21 AM, David Bovill wrote:

> standard HTML browser based thin clients - no.



-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.eclecticity.com




From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Nov 10 12:50:45 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 09:50:45 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>
	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>
	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>
	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>
	<187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>
Message-ID: <D9459E86-57AE-45FF-AB18-B99945632043@danshafer.com>

Andre.....

On Nov 10, 2005, at 8:47 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> desktop is cheaper and easier to deliver

Once again, your view is limited to what now is rather than to what  
can and will emerge. Software is an ecosystem. Today, if you took  
your blogging tool and made an AJAX version, you might well see  
yourself being forced to create a massive and expensive network/ 
server infrastructure. But you might not. Mirrored sites, a mesh of  
cooperative servers run by a third party supplier, rented space on a  
large server farm with on-demand capacity...there are dozens of  
possible solutions to the problem.

What I'm trying to do here is to get the Rev community to think  
outside the desktop application box into which it fits so neatly  
because it is my considered opinion, based on more than three decades  
of experience in technology assessment and analysis, that the box is  
rapidly disappearing. I don't want us to abandon Rev; I want us to  
figure out new things we can do with Rev -- or get RunRev to add to  
or change about Rev -- that will allow it to play a premier role in  
the changing marketplace.

For a simple example: the best-of-breed AJAX developer's toolkit  
could and perhaps should be written in Rev. Server-side Rev  
componentry to support AJAX would be another great opportunity. There  
are several such large gems lying on the ground waiting for someone  
to pick them up and run with them. This stuff is in its infancy. An  
evolutionary shift in infrastructure is needed. Before its adoption  
by MS and Sun and other Big Players, that kind of change would have  
been difficult if not unthinkable. Their entrance into the  
marketplace makes it inevitable at the same time as it accelerates  
the day of its ubiquity.

All of the arguments that have been advanced here to demonstrate why  
I'm wrong are based on today's reality and even then I don't agree  
with most of them because their viewpoint is necessarily limited to  
the experience of the individual expressing them. But if we raise our  
eyes up to the horizon and look at what can and may well happen to  
facilitate this new wave in software, I think we can -- and I  
certainly do -- conclude that there is not a single insurmountable  
problem out there.

When I discovered Rev and then quickly discovered how minuscule its  
audience was, I was discouraged at the same time I was encouraged. I  
was discouraged because I feared Rev would go the way of so many  
other great technologies whose companies couldn't sustain them  
through slow-growth periods. I no longer worry much about that. I was  
encouraged because if only a small number of people "get" Rev, my  
competitive landscape is uncluttered and accessible. The same is true  
for AJAX except there's no need for a single company to be involved  
in any meaningful way. So if most of you on this list disagree with  
me and go on your merry way, that just means fewer competitors for  
those of us who do jump on the AJAX bandwagon while it is still  
moving slowly enough for us to stake out positions on its top level.




-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.eclecticity.com




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov 10 13:03:18 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 10:03:18 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <B13B935B-AF49-489C-A0DE-33189A383F94@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>	<A04554D2-CFF1-4EF5-A7A9-6384499115C1@openpartnership.net>
	<B13B935B-AF49-489C-A0DE-33189A383F94@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <43738B66.6030306@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:
> I mentioned specialized browsers specifically in my post.
> I just  think these specialized browsers will be ultrathin,
> designed to  facilitate access to the "application" (which
> I suspect quickly  becomes a sort of outmoded notion as the
> lines blur) on the server or  the grid.

Specialized ultra-thin custom browsers that download apps from a server?

Sounds a lot like what we're doing with Rev today.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  __________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Nov 10 13:12:00 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:12:00 -0600
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <D9459E86-57AE-45FF-AB18-B99945632043@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>	<187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>
	<D9459E86-57AE-45FF-AB18-B99945632043@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <43738D70.6090809@chipp.com>

Dan,

Do you remember Phillips CDI initiative, or the many other CD-ROM 
developer platforms? They all made grand promises but never delivered.

Even more recently, think about Java and it's promise of cross-platform 
clients? Again, everyone had to stop and convert over to Java, but now 
we see it's only a great server tool, not for clients.

Then there is the ubiquitous 'Web Services.' They have been touted by 
the press and media for the past 5 years as the 'new technology', yet we 
still see very little in the way of open web services available to write 
apps around. Certainly not the cornucopia the analysts led us to believe 
was coming.

So, this just seems like another one of the 'jump on the bandwagon' type 
of technologies, which has promise, but doesn't deliver.

And your notions about 'specialized browsers' and discounting Andre's 
server development issues so quickly only points to the great hurdles 
which AJAX still has to make, currently with no visible roadmap.

My suggestion, is try and develop a full AJAX application, then get back 
to us on what you find. My gut tells me it's a lot more difficult than 
doing the same in Rev. For me, just like the other mentioned 
technologies, I'll wait and see.

(Let's see, to develop in AJAX, you probably need to be an expert in the 
following:
Javascript
HTML
CSS
PHP,ASP or JSP
SQL
DOM XML
cross-platform techniques
cross-browser techniques
ODBC

Wow! That's a lot.)

I, too, like the idea of very thin clients. But as you know, they've 
been tried before, and before, and failed. Perhaps the underlying reason 
they fail has nothing to do with software availablility, but rather the 
requirement for some users to work 'off the net' and most users to 'own 
their own data.'

best,
Chipp

Dan Shafer wrote:
> So if most of you on this list disagree with  me and
> go on your merry way, that just means fewer competitors for  those of us 
> who do jump on the AJAX bandwagon while it is still  moving slowly 
> enough for us to stake out positions on its top level.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov 10 13:15:49 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 10:15:49 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>
	<187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>
Message-ID: <43738E55.8020604@fourthworld.com>

Andre Garzia wrote:
> That's one reason why I think the BIG ones will do some AJAX as  flavour 
> of the month (or year) and the small developers will keep to  the 
> desktop, desktop is cheaper and easier to deliver. For the big  ones is 
> also a question of pride and image, like "Hey Microsoft,  Google is 
> winning over you, saw their online apps? You can't do that,  you're 
> lame!!!". The Big players are not only in it for the money,  but they 
> must also, avoid loosing face. I just want to deliver nice  software, 
> it's not a matter of pride.
> 
> The plot tickens.

Perhaps thick as merde.

I found the comments at Winer's site more interesting than the "leaked" 
memos:
<http://www.hypercamp.org/comments?u=hyper&p=43&link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hypercamp.org%2F2005%2F11%2F09%23a43>

Microsoft is bigger than any of the news agencies reporting on these 
memos. And strange as it may seem, even bigger than Dave Winer, who 
posts the actual proprietary documents.

Why do you suppose Microsoft would allow such "private" information to 
remain publicly available?

I doubt it's because the largest and most predatory software company in 
history can't find a lawyer to serve a simple cease-and-desist.

That web apps will become an increasingly important "also" at Microsoft 
and everywhere else is a given.  But replacing all apps?  Somehow I 
think not, and I suspect Microsoft's clever marketing move is as much a 
distraction as anything else, consistent with the company's demonstrated 
character and history....

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  __________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From david at openpartnership.net  Thu Nov 10 13:21:50 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 19:21:50 +0100
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <D9459E86-57AE-45FF-AB18-B99945632043@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>
	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>
	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>
	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>
	<187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>
	<D9459E86-57AE-45FF-AB18-B99945632043@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <1C0D93B8-20C3-4791-A996-0BFC4F3D8306@openpartnership.net>

On 10 Nov 2005, at 18:50, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Once again, your view is limited to what now is rather than to what  
> can and will emerge. Software is an ecosystem. Today, if you took  
> your blogging tool and made an AJAX version, you might well see  
> yourself being forced to create a massive and expensive network/ 
> server infrastructure. But you might not. Mirrored sites, a mesh of  
> cooperative servers run by a third party supplier, rented space on  
> a large server farm with on-demand capacity...there are dozens of  
> possible solutions to the problem.

To put it another way - it is about the price of code reuse. Setting  
up a web service and getting many apps around the world to use this  
web service is becoming very cheap. Think of running a Rev app on  
your ADSL line of the future. Think how much easier it is to maintain  
and support such a service without having to deal with installation  
problems - Magic Carpet or no magic carpet. Think of how much  
flexibility you give your end customers when they can use Rev front  
ends to layout and process the results of these web services how they  
see fit. The unintended uses of the web service....

It is not either web service + thin client - it is how web services  
will change the relationship.

> What I'm trying to do here is to get the Rev community to think  
> outside the desktop application box into which it fits so neatly  
> because it is my considered opinion, based on more than three  
> decades of experience in technology assessment and analysis, that  
> the box is rapidly disappearing. I don't want us to abandon Rev; I  
> want us to figure out new things we can do with Rev -- or get  
> RunRev to add to or change about Rev -- that will allow it to play  
> a premier role in the changing marketplace.

Dan -I agree with you 100% here. It is important that we understand  
this change and give RunRev enough time to plan this into their  
strategy - else many developers will have to move over to other  
toolkits that do take such a path.

> For a simple example: the best-of-breed AJAX developer's toolkit  
> could and perhaps should be written in Rev. Server-side Rev  
> componentry to support AJAX would be another great opportunity.  
> There are several such large gems lying on the ground waiting for  
> someone to pick them up and run with them.

If you take a look at AJAX technology frameworks such as Ruby on  
Rails - you will see how easy it is to add a web service which simply  
does the job of replacing a <div> tag with a piece of HTML. If this  
web service returns htmlText = xHTML then we can just place it in a  
field in Rev.

What does this mean? It means a small Rev based team (I am the only  
one here) can work with open source web developers and create great  
interfaces and faster development than any web designer (unless you  
get too flash with your interfaces :)

What else does this mean? You can sell your strategy with Rev. Throw  
away the marketing hype regarding AJAX (though you can use it if you  
want :) - the real point is you can tell your client - "this is  
quicker and more powerful) to develop the GUI in Revolution :) - but  
once done this acts as a spec for creating truly great AJAX web  
sites! Ultimate AJAX client prototyping. Of course the client will  
rarely want the inferior AJAX interfaces once they are hooked on the  
Rev interfaces - but they have a path for zero install scalability  
which is clear and cheap.

More - what does it mean for the choice of programming language? At  
the moment in the era of monolithic web applications - you go one way  
- choose your language - perl, php, python, java... then get your  
team and implement. How many times has this cut out smaller languages  
such as Rev from the picture - not enough developers.

Now Rev developers can be a meaningful part of that team. The risk  
has been removed for the client - they know they can switch to AJAX  
and browser delivery if RunRev fold.

> When I discovered Rev and then quickly discovered how minuscule its  
> audience was, I was discouraged at the same time I was encouraged.  
> I was discouraged because I feared Rev would go the way of so many  
> other great technologies whose companies couldn't sustain them  
> through slow-growth periods. I no longer worry much about that. I  
> was encouraged because if only a small number of people "get" Rev,  
> my competitive landscape is uncluttered and accessible. The same is  
> true for AJAX except there's no need for a single company to be  
> involved in any meaningful way

As an example here with the TV project i am working on - I have some  
perl programmers working on web services related to LDAP, some php  
programmers working on XML based services (for some reason there were  
more of them available), and Java developers working on the financial  
crypto stuff - most all of these projects are open source. For the  
client develop the interfaces in Rev - the interfaces layout the  
resulting fragments of text or xHTML. Now how would I get the same  
number Rev programmers? Would i be able to use the existing range of  
high quality modules that you find in CPAN if I did? Would the client  
have accepted this "risky" strategy?

I'm thinking on this too - the TV project will need a good web site  
next year with much of the functionality we have with the Rev  
interfaces. So maybe this site will use Ruby on Rails to integrate  
the pieces for the web. Maybe it is possible to have Rev running on  
the server side so that I can reuse the client side code developed in  
this first phase? Maybe I can use Rev to deliver the image processing  
aspect of the project - beats image magic any time.

How Rev fits into this new picture is VERY important. It is much more  
than AJAX or not. It is also about frameworks - that is Ruby on Rails  
makes it super easy by setting up "scaffolds" for various types of  
web app - Rev with a good code library of python, ruby, or whatever  
would make the ultimate "scaffold" generator. It is also about  
structure - model, view controller (MVC) - which most of us who spend  
any time developing in Rev naturally migrate to to organise our work.  
But Rev needs this structure built in - not forced, just the right  
defaults.

The pieces are all there - the opportunity is now - the question is  
whether "we get it" or we "miss it". Not everything that is new is bad.


Don't believe the hype - I know Dan does not.


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Nov 10 13:23:32 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 10:23:32 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <D9459E86-57AE-45FF-AB18-B99945632043@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>
	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>
	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>
	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>
	<187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>
	<D9459E86-57AE-45FF-AB18-B99945632043@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <A22E43E5-8BE0-4ADD-9F44-9E592A044020@mangomultimedia.com>

Hi Dan,

On Nov 10, 2005, at 9:50 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:
> Once again, your view is limited to what now is rather than to what  
> can and will emerge. Software is an ecosystem. Today, if you took  
> your blogging tool and made an AJAX version, you might well see  
> yourself being forced to create a massive and expensive network/ 
> server infrastructure. But you might not. Mirrored sites, a mesh of  
> cooperative servers run by a third party supplier, rented space on  
> a large server farm with on-demand capacity...there are dozens of  
> possible solutions to the problem.

I'm not sure what value all of this rented server space and  
infrastructure add in the example Andre provided.  The only reason he  
would need as server is to download updates from within the program.   
Does the server really need to be involved beyond this?  It just  
seems that in this case you are using a steam roller to kill an ant.

Now, services like Basecamp <www.basecamphq.com> really profit from  
this sort of design.  My company uses it for project management  
internally and externally.  It is very easy for us to give clients  
access to the service so they can manage their projects with us.   
There is nothing to download and it is a nice use of AJAX.

> Server-side Rev componentry to support AJAX would be another great  
> opportunity.

Dan, I would be interested in knowing a little more about how you  
would like Revolution to behave differently or how it could be  
improved here?

AJAX isn't using any new technologies.  They are just using them in a  
certain way.  Revolution already supports XML so we can make requests  
to the server side logic of an AJAX application.  Rev doesn't refresh  
the screen every time a request is made to the server so we already  
have that benefit.  So I think Revolution can already play in this  
market.  You do have to download Revolution apps which is appropriate  
in some cases and in others this might not be desirable.  Project  
requirements and target customers will dictate what needs to be done  
here.

I've already created apps in Rev that interface with a web  
application using XML-RPC so besides having to download the software  
(which wasn't a drawback at all for my project) what benefits does  
AJAX provide?

> There are several such large gems lying on the ground waiting for  
> someone to pick them up and run with them. This stuff is in its  
> infancy. An evolutionary shift in infrastructure is needed. Before  
> its adoption by MS and Sun and other Big Players, that kind of  
> change would have been difficult if not unthinkable. Their entrance  
> into the marketplace makes it inevitable at the same time as it  
> accelerates the day of its ubiquity.

MS and Sun entering the market definitely gives it some legs and will  
evolve the principles behind AJAX, but I don't think you can say that  
the method these companies choose for deploying apps based on these  
principles will be the only method used.

> All of the arguments that have been advanced here to demonstrate  
> why I'm wrong are based on today's reality and even then I don't  
> agree with most of them because their viewpoint is necessarily  
> limited to the experience of the individual expressing them. But if  
> we raise our eyes up to the horizon and look at what can and may  
> well happen to facilitate this new wave in software, I think we can  
> -- and I certainly do -- conclude that there is not a single  
> insurmountable problem out there.

If specialized browsers do evolve I would imagine that they would  
make the developers life easier by giving access to system controls  
such as native buttons, fields, etc.  It would probably also give you  
a standard means of programming that is either javascript or uses the  
ECMA 262 standard.  Some variant of CSS would probably be used as  
well for applying styles to text, etc.  Perhaps that is how they  
would handle positioning as well.  I don't know.  Really all they  
would be doing is providing a standard development environment that  
had native controls and didn't rely on the support for DHTML and CSS  
built into browsers.  IMO this is functionality that Rev supports now.

Now, can Rev evolve and find niches in this evolving market?  Most  
likely.  I'm just happy that we have this functionality now rather  
than later.

This is a very interesting discussion you've started Dan.  It is good  
to look at these issues and find out where Rev fits in relative to it  
all.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Thu Nov 10 13:30:28 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:30:28 -0600
Subject: Group scroll bar on 2000
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051110122926.21f14ed0@exchange.slg.com>

Hey, all.

I hope someone can answer this question quickly.  I have a scroll bar on a 
group and a scroll bar on a field.  Under 2000, the group scroll bar has a 
thick border around it.  On the field, it doesn't.  Is there a way to turn 
off the border on the group's scrollbar?

Thanks!

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Nov 10 13:33:39 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 10:33:39 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <43738D70.6090809@chipp.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>	<187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>
	<D9459E86-57AE-45FF-AB18-B99945632043@danshafer.com>
	<43738D70.6090809@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <79414589-7C58-4C9B-9806-7D99C8050EA7@mangomultimedia.com>

On Nov 10, 2005, at 10:12 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> (Let's see, to develop in AJAX, you probably need to be an expert  
> in the following:
> Javascript
> HTML
> CSS
> PHP,ASP or JSP
> SQL
> DOM XML
> cross-platform techniques
> cross-browser techniques
> ODBC

The big kicker is the cross-platform/browser techniques.  This is a  
major pain.  In terms of testing, PHP and SQL are easy.  Getting  
things to work across browsers can be a headache.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Nov 10 13:46:03 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 10:46:03 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <43738B66.6030306@fourthworld.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>	<A04554D2-CFF1-4EF5-A7A9-6384499115C1@openpartnership.net>
	<B13B935B-AF49-489C-A0DE-33189A383F94@danshafer.com>
	<43738B66.6030306@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <8BB3670D-4562-462E-834E-F4B0FB7FFEF2@danshafer.com>

No, specialized ultra-thin custom browsers that RUN apps on the  
server. Thin clients, not thick.


On Nov 10, 2005, at 10:03 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Specialized ultra-thin custom browsers that download apps from a  
> server?



-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.eclecticity.com




From John.Thornton at gb.mahle.com  Thu Nov 10 13:46:53 2005
From: John.Thornton at gb.mahle.com (Thornton, John)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 18:46:53 -0000
Subject: That Reuturn Key again!
Message-ID: <2AC7D7ECB6CC2C4D912B478A066E802270CA27@ukcoswnhm0002.uk.cosworth-technology.local>

Hi again,
When I am editing  scripts, my Return key disables at random moments, usually meaning that I have to exit the stack totally and read it in again so that (maybe) in recovers!  Is there anyone that has come across this?  I am using Redhat Linux.
Regards,
John.


From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Nov 10 13:57:51 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 10:57:51 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <43738D70.6090809@chipp.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>	<187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>
	<D9459E86-57AE-45FF-AB18-B99945632043@danshafer.com>
	<43738D70.6090809@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <7F63D714-4FC0-4908-846D-EFB0BEFC51E1@danshafer.com>


On Nov 10, 2005, at 10:12 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Then there is the ubiquitous 'Web Services.' They have been touted  
> by the press and media for the past 5 years as the 'new  
> technology', yet we still see very little in the way of open web  
> services available to write apps around. Certainly not the  
> cornucopia the analysts led us to believe was coming.
>
I don't know what analysts projected a cornucopia (good word!) of Web  
services platforms, but there are quite a number out there. Virtually  
all of the app servers can be viewed as such platforms. The fact that  
something hasn't yet been done or done right doesn't make the  
fundamental notion wrong, only the timing perhaps.

> And your notions about 'specialized browsers' and discounting  
> Andre's server development issues so quickly only points to the  
> great hurdles which AJAX still has to make, currently with no  
> visible roadmap.
>
Andre has a server developer's perspective on this and it's not that  
I discounted it quickly or lightly, just that it has to be seen for  
what it is: a single-perspective take. Again, I'm not interested in  
defending AJAX (or for that matter Laszlo) per se. The *concept* of  
thin clients running Web services-based applications has the  
endorsement and attention of a broad range of developers, big and  
small, and is starting to get some serious traction. Lumping it in  
with all that has happened in the past may be illustrative and may  
help it to avoid some of the known pitfalls but it doesn't diminish  
its future potential or validity.

> My suggestion, is try and develop a full AJAX application, then get  
> back to us on what you find. My gut tells me it's a lot more  
> difficult than doing the same in Rev. For me, just like the other  
> mentioned technologies, I'll wait and see.
>
I plan to do just that. And I hope a LOT of people wait and see. That  
just gives this old gray-haired techno-weenie enough of a head start  
to stay ahead of the stampede when it does come.

> (Let's see, to develop in AJAX, you probably need to be an expert  
> in the following:
> Javascript
> HTML
> CSS
> PHP,ASP or JSP
> SQL
> DOM XML
> cross-platform techniques
> cross-browser techniques
> ODBC
>
I agree with the first four items. It's not clear that you need to  
grok DOM XML at any depth because the XMLHTTPRequest object abstracts  
a lot of that stuff out and lets you use InnerHTML to update DOM  
components so that all you really need to know is the name of the  
component to be updated.

As for cross-platform and cross-browser techniques, I don't think  
those are as big issues as they seem. If you assume the user will  
live with a browser-based UI that isn't identical to his desktop  
platform, that issue gets eliminated. Cross-browser techniques are so  
far almost zero because once you've established that the browser  
understands the XMLHTTPRequest object -- either as a standard part of  
the environment or, in the case of IE, as an ActiveX component --  
you've pretty much eliminated MOST (though surely not quite all) of  
the browser dependencies.

And I can't imagine that understanding ODBC would be necessary at all.

Also, I think it's important to point out that to write ANY decent  
interactive Web content, you have to understand the first four things  
on your list -- or team up with others who do. So that's hardly a  
compelling anti-AJAX argument.

To undertake serious app development in Rev, you have to master a  
fairly broad set of technologies, techniques and skills as well. I  
don't think that makes Rev an unusable environment.

> Wow! That's a lot.)
>
> I, too, like the idea of very thin clients. But as you know,  
> they've been tried before, and before, and failed. Perhaps the  
> underlying reason they fail has nothing to do with software  
> availablility, but rather the requirement for some users to work  
> 'off the net' and most users to 'own their own data.'
>
I think this has been a problem of the absence of a critical mass or  
tipping point. And I think that point is about to be reached. That's  
what this whole discussion is really about. I don't disagree with any  
of the analyses that have taken place here with respect to where we  
have been in the past or where we appear to be today. My vision is  
fixed on the future. The day is soon coming -- if it's not already  
here -- when there will be orders of magnitude more server-based  
applications than Rev applications. I just want Rev to play a  
legitimate and visible role as this emerges.


> best,
> Chipp

-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.eclecticity.com




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov 10 14:03:24 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 11:03:24 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <8BB3670D-4562-462E-834E-F4B0FB7FFEF2@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>	<A04554D2-CFF1-4EF5-A7A9-6384499115C1@openpartnership.net>	<B13B935B-AF49-489C-A0DE-33189A383F94@danshafer.com>	<43738B66.6030306@fourthworld.com>
	<8BB3670D-4562-462E-834E-F4B0FB7FFEF2@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <4373997C.6060102@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:
> No, specialized ultra-thin custom browsers that RUN apps on the  server. 
> Thin clients, not thick.

Given that a script interpreter will reside client-side in either the 
browser, a Ruby interpreter, a Python engine, or a Rev engine, the 
difference between "thick" and "thin" in this context seems largely 
semantic.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  __________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Nov 10 14:03:41 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 11:03:41 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <79414589-7C58-4C9B-9806-7D99C8050EA7@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>	<187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>
	<D9459E86-57AE-45FF-AB18-B99945632043@danshafer.com>
	<43738D70.6090809@chipp.com>
	<79414589-7C58-4C9B-9806-7D99C8050EA7@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <DEBD6783-56B3-456B-BADD-2B503F59D903@danshafer.com>

Trevor.....

On Nov 10, 2005, at 10:33 AM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> Getting things to work across browsers can be a headache.

Start with the basic assumption that only a browser that groks the  
XMLHTTPRequest object is a candidate for AJAX technology deployment.  
The subset of those browsers is already very far down the path of  
eliminating or minimizing cross-browser problems. The problems arise  
because of the necessity most of us as Web developers feel we have to  
drag along the pre-modern browsers. If you focus only on the most  
recent generation of browsers, the cross-browser problems are  
becoming fewer and fewer, and libraries and functions exist to  
abstract away from those pretty easily.




-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.eclecticity.com




From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Nov 10 14:06:54 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 11:06:54 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <4373997C.6060102@fourthworld.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>	<A04554D2-CFF1-4EF5-A7A9-6384499115C1@openpartnership.net>	<B13B935B-AF49-489C-A0DE-33189A383F94@danshafer.com>	<43738B66.6030306@fourthworld.com>
	<8BB3670D-4562-462E-834E-F4B0FB7FFEF2@danshafer.com>
	<4373997C.6060102@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <71BEC846-F5AC-4786-9772-5B80E9A2D00C@danshafer.com>

Maybe it's a thin client that overate last night.

Dan

On Nov 10, 2005, at 11:03 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Given that a script interpreter will reside client-side in either  
> the browser, a Ruby interpreter, a Python engine, or a Rev engine,  
> the difference between "thick" and "thin" in this context seems  
> largely semantic.



From dleyanna at rtl.org  Thu Nov 10 14:09:42 2005
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:09:42 -0500
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <8BB3670D-4562-462E-834E-F4B0FB7FFEF2@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>	<A04554D2-CFF1-4EF5-A7A9-6384499115C1@openpartnership.net>	<B13B935B-AF49-489C-A0DE-33189A383F94@danshafer.com>	<43738B66.6030306@fourthworld.com>
	<8BB3670D-4562-462E-834E-F4B0FB7FFEF2@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <43739AF6.3000007@rtl.org>

Ok, how's this...

Get a good marketing department for Sun and resurrect the hardware based 
JVM. Use a thin client that communicated with "application" that 
communicated with the JVM any or all of which could be anywhere with a 
minimum of the thin client and personal data being on your "personal" 
device. Your "application" could be anywhere, including your personal 
device. You could even have the hardware JVM in your personal device or 
it could be located anywhere and you just plugged your personal device 
into it.

Is there any reason that that wouldn't be the best of all worlds an a 
little less of a paradigm shift?

Oh, another thing, require that all applications be "user" skinable so 
that at least the user would have some consistency. There, not the 
programmer has some consistency and the user has some consistency and 
the model leaves room for anyone to implement any business model. 
Remember, no proprietary data format and a lot of "public" librarys for 
code reuse.

Dave

Dan Shafer wrote:

> No, specialized ultra-thin custom browsers that RUN apps on the  
> server. Thin clients, not thick.
>
>
> On Nov 10, 2005, at 10:03 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> Specialized ultra-thin custom browsers that download apps from a  
>> server?
>
>
>
>
> -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. 
> -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
> Dan Shafer
> Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
> "Looking at technology from every angle"
> http://www.eclecticity.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Nov 10 14:15:32 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 11:15:32 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <DEBD6783-56B3-456B-BADD-2B503F59D903@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>	<187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>
	<D9459E86-57AE-45FF-AB18-B99945632043@danshafer.com>
	<43738D70.6090809@chipp.com>
	<79414589-7C58-4C9B-9806-7D99C8050EA7@mangomultimedia.com>
	<DEBD6783-56B3-456B-BADD-2B503F59D903@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <B7D94ECF-5656-4834-937A-76B091C7389F@mangomultimedia.com>

On Nov 10, 2005, at 11:03 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Trevor.....
>
> On Nov 10, 2005, at 10:33 AM, Trevor DeVore wrote:
>
>> Getting things to work across browsers can be a headache.
>
> Start with the basic assumption that only a browser that groks the  
> XMLHTTPRequest object is a candidate for AJAX technology  
> deployment. The subset of those browsers is already very far down  
> the path of eliminating or minimizing cross-browser problems. The  
> problems arise because of the necessity most of us as Web  
> developers feel we have to drag along the pre-modern browsers. If  
> you focus only on the most recent generation of browsers, the cross- 
> browser problems are becoming fewer and fewer, and libraries and  
> functions exist to abstract away from those pretty easily.

This is true.  I was just writing something similar to your response  
to Chipp.  If you dive into this I would be interested to hear your  
experience with it.  My experience with testing apps running inside a  
browser in the past has been less than pleasant.  A really good  
library for interacting with the DOM that has support for drag/drop  
and other interface niceties is a must if you are going to get into  
browser based web apps.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From plsntbreez at mac.com  Thu Nov 10 14:21:02 2005
From: plsntbreez at mac.com (Brian K. Maher)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:21:02 -0500
Subject: previous card issue
In-Reply-To: <71BEC846-F5AC-4786-9772-5B80E9A2D00C@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<A04554D2-CFF1-4EF5-A7A9-6384499115C1@openpartnership.net>
	<B13B935B-AF49-489C-A0DE-33189A383F94@danshafer.com>
	<43738B66.6030306@fourthworld.com>
	<8BB3670D-4562-462E-834E-F4B0FB7FFEF2@danshafer.com>
	<4373997C.6060102@fourthworld.com>
	<71BEC846-F5AC-4786-9772-5B80E9A2D00C@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <14382899.1131650462516.JavaMail.plsntbreez@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

I have a stack with several cards named Welcome, Connection and NotAuditEnabled.  I start out at the Welcome card and the user clicks the Next button which does a go to card 'Connection'.  On the Connection card I have a preOpenCard handler which does the following:

if the short name of the previous card is "Welcome" then
    ... put empty into several fields ...
end if

When a certain condition happens on this card I do a go to card 'NotAuditEnabled'.  This card explains some details about the error condition and allows the user to click a Previous button to go back to the Connection card and try again.  The Previous button does a go to card 'Connection'.

The problem is that the preOpenCard code shown above /always/ seems to believe that the previous card is 'Welcome' and not the card that I just came from.

Am I misunderstanding something here?  Does 'previous' not mean the previously viewed card?

I was able to get this to work the way I want by using push card & pop card.

Thanks, Brian



From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Nov 10 14:27:42 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 17:27:42 -0200
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <7F63D714-4FC0-4908-846D-EFB0BEFC51E1@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>
	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>
	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>
	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>
	<187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>
	<D9459E86-57AE-45FF-AB18-B99945632043@danshafer.com>
	<43738D70.6090809@chipp.com>
	<7F63D714-4FC0-4908-846D-EFB0BEFC51E1@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <C32E20B8-5DA6-4873-B173-DF5D39882C68@mac.com>


On Nov 10, 2005, at 4:57 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

>> And your notions about 'specialized browsers' and discounting  
>> Andre's server development issues so quickly only points to the  
>> great hurdles which AJAX still has to make, currently with no  
>> visible roadmap.
>>
> Andre has a server developer's perspective on this and it's not  
> that I discounted it quickly or lightly, just that it has to be  
> seen for what it is: a single-perspective take. Again, I'm not  
> interested in defending AJAX (or for that matter Laszlo) per se.  
> The *concept* of thin clients running Web services-based  
> applications has the endorsement and attention of a broad range of  
> developers, big and small, and is starting to get some serious  
> traction. Lumping it in with all that has happened in the past may  
> be illustrative and may help it to avoid some of the known pitfalls  
> but it doesn't diminish its future potential or validity.

hheheheh Dan I never though you took my points lighly :-) and yes, I  
am from a server perspective. I think many things can benefit from  
AJAX approach, mainly things from intranet related stuff and general  
network tasks like emails. Revolution could replace Javascript and  
HTML/CSS on Ajax, one could use Apache and XML to backend his app,  
which is almost what were all doing with auto update clients. The  
main benefit I see from using AJAX is that the user does not need to  
download anything. In this era of kiosks and appliances this is a big  
plus, I also like the perspective of running nice little Rev apps  
from pendrives, but thats not for everyone.

How could Rev jump on the bandwagon without loosing it's rev-ness. We  
can use Rev to help us develop, even if the end product is AJAX, Rev  
has a high level functions for string manipulation and AJAX is all  
about text scripts. One can use Rev to help not only the server part  
that is backed by Apache, but also to create code generation and  
management tools that will help to cope with the task of writting  
Javascript.

Using altuits altBrowser one can create the ultimate AJAX testing  
suite in Rev, and run everything from one app. This should get  
Revolution developers a nice enviroment to develop, even, if they are  
doing javascript. I don't like Javascript or jscript or whatever they  
are bundling with browsers these days but until browsers bundle  
better languages, we'll have to use it. a spidermonkey external might  
be cool too.

I think there's a market for AJAX Development Tools, many people want  
to start to code with AJAX but there's no nice friendly environment  
yet. Also could dashboard widgets qualify as AJAX?

>
>> My suggestion, is try and develop a full AJAX application, then  
>> get back to us on what you find. My gut tells me it's a lot more  
>> difficult than doing the same in Rev. For me, just like the other  
>> mentioned technologies, I'll wait and see.
>>
> I plan to do just that. And I hope a LOT of people wait and see.  
> That just gives this old gray-haired techno-weenie enough of a head  
> start to stay ahead of the stampede when it does come.



From dleyanna at rtl.org  Thu Nov 10 14:30:28 2005
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:30:28 -0500
Subject: previous card issue
In-Reply-To: <14382899.1131650462516.JavaMail.plsntbreez@mac.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>	<A04554D2-CFF1-4EF5-A7A9-6384499115C1@openpartnership.net>	<B13B935B-AF49-489C-A0DE-33189A383F94@danshafer.com>	<43738B66.6030306@fourthworld.com>	<8BB3670D-4562-462E-834E-F4B0FB7FFEF2@danshafer.com>	<4373997C.6060102@fourthworld.com>	<71BEC846-F5AC-4786-9772-5B80E9A2D00C@danshafer.com>
	<14382899.1131650462516.JavaMail.plsntbreez@mac.com>
Message-ID: <43739FD4.9050800@rtl.org>


 From the transcript dictionary...

Description
Use the previous keyword to move backward in the stack or to reference 
the card before the current card.

Description
Use the back keyword to return to the most recently visited card, or to 
designate a backScript.


Dave

Brian K. Maher wrote:

>Hi Folks,
>
>I have a stack with several cards named Welcome, Connection and NotAuditEnabled.  I start out at the Welcome card and the user clicks the Next button which does a go to card 'Connection'.  On the Connection card I have a preOpenCard handler which does the following:
>
>if the short name of the previous card is "Welcome" then
>    ... put empty into several fields ...
>end if
>
>When a certain condition happens on this card I do a go to card 'NotAuditEnabled'.  This card explains some details about the error condition and allows the user to click a Previous button to go back to the Connection card and try again.  The Previous button does a go to card 'Connection'.
>
>The problem is that the preOpenCard code shown above /always/ seems to believe that the previous card is 'Welcome' and not the card that I just came from.
>
>Am I misunderstanding something here?  Does 'previous' not mean the previously viewed card?
>
>I was able to get this to work the way I want by using push card & pop card.
>
>Thanks, Brian
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>  
>



From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Nov 10 14:31:10 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 11:31:10 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <B7D94ECF-5656-4834-937A-76B091C7389F@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>	<187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>
	<D9459E86-57AE-45FF-AB18-B99945632043@danshafer.com>
	<43738D70.6090809@chipp.com>
	<79414589-7C58-4C9B-9806-7D99C8050EA7@mangomultimedia.com>
	<DEBD6783-56B3-456B-BADD-2B503F59D903@danshafer.com>
	<B7D94ECF-5656-4834-937A-76B091C7389F@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <1BBBFA79-46A7-48AC-8BFB-42C94A5FCBD2@danshafer.com>

Absolutely, Trevor, and several such libraries already exist. I'm  
doing a comparative analysis on them at the moment.

On Nov 10, 2005, at 11:15 AM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> A really good library for interacting with the DOM that has support  
> for drag/drop and other interface niceties is a must if you are  
> going to get into browser based web apps.



-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.eclecticity.com




From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Nov 10 14:37:38 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 11:37:38 -0800
Subject: Rev and the Disappearing Desktop: A Focus Shift
In-Reply-To: <C32E20B8-5DA6-4873-B173-DF5D39882C68@mac.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>
	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>
	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>
	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>
	<187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>
	<D9459E86-57AE-45FF-AB18-B99945632043@danshafer.com>
	<43738D70.6090809@chipp.com>
	<7F63D714-4FC0-4908-846D-EFB0BEFC51E1@danshafer.com>
	<C32E20B8-5DA6-4873-B173-DF5D39882C68@mac.com>
Message-ID: <2993FD9C-1C49-45D2-89F4-40EFA35CDF96@danshafer.com>

I sat down this morning to write a new email segueing off the topic  
of whether the desktop is disappearing or not and focusing on the  
question of how Rev could play in that space as it emerges. This  
allows us to abstract out the discussion about whether I'm right or  
wrong predicting the rapidly approaching ubiquity of AJAX and RIA  
apps built around general- or special-purpose Web browsers (what I  
called "thin clients" that, as Richard Gaskin pointed out, may not be  
so thin after all). Instead, we can focus on where Rev might play a  
key role in this new technique as it emerges.

And then Andre wrote:

> I think there's a market for AJAX Development Tools, many people  
> want to start to code with AJAX but there's no nice friendly  
> environment yet. Also could dashboard widgets qualify as AJAX?

Absolutely. I see two possible applications for Rev in the emerging  
world of AJAX and RIA development.

First, there's what you suggest here, Andre: the creation of a tool  
for building such apps. Now there's a very interesting paradox here  
isn't there? Should such a tool exist as a standalone app? Or is that  
so inherently self-contradictory that it's: (a) a bad idea; and (b)  
an idea that would produce a product nobody would want to use? Good  
questions, for sure.

Second, there's the idea -- on which you also touched -- of using Rev  
to create the *server-side* technologies that wrapper and facilitate  
the development and deployment of AJAX applications.

Third, there's a marriage of those two tool approaches.

I'm willing and eager to put some serious time and even a little  
money on the table to facilitate this if we can assemble a small team  
of people who want to explore it seriously.

Any interest?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Nov 10 14:39:22 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 11:39:22 -0800
Subject: previous card issue
In-Reply-To: <14382899.1131650462516.JavaMail.plsntbreez@mac.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<A04554D2-CFF1-4EF5-A7A9-6384499115C1@openpartnership.net>
	<B13B935B-AF49-489C-A0DE-33189A383F94@danshafer.com>
	<43738B66.6030306@fourthworld.com>
	<8BB3670D-4562-462E-834E-F4B0FB7FFEF2@danshafer.com>
	<4373997C.6060102@fourthworld.com>
	<71BEC846-F5AC-4786-9772-5B80E9A2D00C@danshafer.com>
	<14382899.1131650462516.JavaMail.plsntbreez@mac.com>
Message-ID: <089CC194-3FBE-4284-9032-53A4C8198B11@danshafer.com>

Yes, you are misunderstanding. "previous" *always* means the card  
immediately prior to this one in the stack arrangement of cards.  
"recent" is the most recently card the user has visited.


On Nov 10, 2005, at 11:21 AM, Brian K. Maher wrote:

> Am I misunderstanding something here?  Does 'previous' not mean the  
> previously viewed card?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Nov 10 14:52:10 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 11:52:10 -0800
Subject: previous card issue
In-Reply-To: <14382899.1131650462516.JavaMail.plsntbreez@mac.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<A04554D2-CFF1-4EF5-A7A9-6384499115C1@openpartnership.net>
	<B13B935B-AF49-489C-A0DE-33189A383F94@danshafer.com>
	<43738B66.6030306@fourthworld.com>
	<8BB3670D-4562-462E-834E-F4B0FB7FFEF2@danshafer.com>
	<4373997C.6060102@fourthworld.com>
	<71BEC846-F5AC-4786-9772-5B80E9A2D00C@danshafer.com>
	<14382899.1131650462516.JavaMail.plsntbreez@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p06210228bf99551c55af@[66.93.39.98]>

At 2:21 PM -0500 11/10/2005, Brian K. Maher wrote:
>The problem is that the preOpenCard code shown above /always/ seems 
>to believe that the previous card is 'Welcome' and not the card that 
>I just came from.
>
>Am I misunderstanding something here?  Does 'previous' not mean the 
>previously viewed card?

"previous card" means the card previous in the stack - the card whose 
number is one less than that of the current card.

What you want is "recent card".
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From plsntbreez at mac.com  Thu Nov 10 15:26:22 2005
From: plsntbreez at mac.com (Brian K. Maher)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:26:22 -0500
Subject: previous card issue
In-Reply-To: <43739FD4.9050800@rtl.org>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<A04554D2-CFF1-4EF5-A7A9-6384499115C1@openpartnership.net>
	<B13B935B-AF49-489C-A0DE-33189A383F94@danshafer.com>
	<43738B66.6030306@fourthworld.com>
	<8BB3670D-4562-462E-834E-F4B0FB7FFEF2@danshafer.com>
	<4373997C.6060102@fourthworld.com>
	<71BEC846-F5AC-4786-9772-5B80E9A2D00C@danshafer.com>
	<14382899.1131650462516.JavaMail.plsntbreez@mac.com>
	<43739FD4.9050800@rtl.org>
Message-ID: <7468437.1131654382817.JavaMail.plsntbreez@mac.com>

Hi Dave,

Ya know, I read that but it just didn't sink in.  That's what I get for writing code when I am tired.

Brian



From esmale at welshpiper.com  Thu Nov 10 15:28:43 2005
From: esmale at welshpiper.com (Erin D. Smale)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:28:43 -0500
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <79414589-7C58-4C9B-9806-7D99C8050EA7@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>	<187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>	<D9459E86-57AE-45FF-AB18-B99945632043@danshafer.com>	<43738D70.6090809@chipp.com>
	<79414589-7C58-4C9B-9806-7D99C8050EA7@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <4373AD7B.2000903@welshpiper.com>

Compensating for browser antics is probably where I spend a third of my 
programming time. There are certainly several tried-and-true means by 
which to ensure compatibility for particular modules in a so-called web 
app, but as client requirements get more complex, these techniques are 
proving less and less resilient to customer expectations. Of course, a 
good many of these problems could be avoided if:

(1) Software companies would adhere to standards during the development 
cycle
(2) Customers were given more realistic expectations of the limitations 
inherent to the browser/web server relationship (Yes, you can manage 
data; No, you cannot download the prescription you just ordered.)

IME, many clients (and not a few developers) still work under the 
incomplete notion that Web=Internet. As a result, customers get to 
believing that the Internet is useless without a web browser, and 
developers get discouraged when a browser limits application 
functionality. Like my father used to say, "You can't fit 10 pounds of 
**** in a 5 pound bag."

While I do spend most of my "earning dollars" hours writing stuff with 
PHP and javascript and MySQL, there are several client applications in 
my recent past that I would have preferred to do "outside the browser." 
Now that I have Rev, I can start doing so with what I believe is a 
reasonable and cost-effective chance of success :-)

PS. On a positive note, using Rev to access data and resources on web 
servers does give us the opportunity to adopt standards from the 
beginning of an application's life cycle.

PPS. Great discussion--glad I joined the list!

-- Erin

Check out The Chimera RPG:
http://www.welshpiper.com



Trevor DeVore wrote:

> On Nov 10, 2005, at 10:12 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:
>
>
> The big kicker is the cross-platform/browser techniques.  This is a  
> major pain.  In terms of testing, PHP and SQL are easy.  Getting  
> things to work across browsers can be a headache.
>


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Thu Nov 10 15:52:54 2005
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:52:54 -0500
Subject: set the systemFileSelector to false
Message-ID: <OFC8DFE600.DBCE25AF-ON852570B5.00718B34@sealedair.com>

Anyone ever use this?

set the systemFileSelector to false

This used to allow the a rev built-in custom file selector (unix style). 
When I build my standalone with 2.6.1, this fileselector is not included. 
Once upon a time, there was a selectable item to include the unix file 
selector. I believe this is what is missing. How can I include the unix 
file selector in a 2.6.1 build?

Best regards,
Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>



From david at openpartnership.net  Thu Nov 10 16:01:12 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 22:01:12 +0100
Subject: Rev and the Disappearing Desktop: A Focus Shift
In-Reply-To: <2993FD9C-1C49-45D2-89F4-40EFA35CDF96@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>
	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>
	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>
	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>
	<187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>
	<D9459E86-57AE-45FF-AB18-B99945632043@danshafer.com>
	<43738D70.6090809@chipp.com>
	<7F63D714-4FC0-4908-846D-EFB0BEFC51E1@danshafer.com>
	<C32E20B8-5DA6-4873-B173-DF5D39882C68@mac.com>
	<2993FD9C-1C49-45D2-89F4-40EFA35CDF96@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <12914689-0BEF-4550-A34F-3650A53898A2@openpartnership.net>


On 10 Nov 2005, at 20:37, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Absolutely. I see two possible applications for Rev in the emerging  
> world of AJAX and RIA development.
>
> First, there's what you suggest here, Andre: the creation of a tool  
> for building such apps. Now there's a very interesting paradox here  
> isn't there? Should such a tool exist as a standalone app? Or is  
> that so inherently self-contradictory that it's: (a) a bad idea;  
> and (b) an idea that would produce a product nobody would want to  
> use? Good questions, for sure.

This is the planning stage - we have a client that needs this and is  
willing to put some up front money into it. Will know at the end of  
December. Would be good to develop a proof of concept, and would be  
prepared to share the revenue for the contract should it come through  
with a a few folks from this list.

> Second, there's the idea -- on which you also touched -- of using  
> Rev to create the *server-side* technologies that wrapper and  
> facilitate the development and deployment of AJAX applications.

This is OK - but more interested in Rev as a client side technology  
here. The two customers I know of want fast rich clients on the  
intranet, and standard web services that they can pick from a large  
range of open source developers and languages for. Take this as a  
third possibility?

> I'm willing and eager to put some serious time and even a little  
> money on the table to facilitate this if we can assemble a small  
> team of people who want to explore it seriously.
>
> Any interest?

Sure - would be prepared to top up the pot a little too,

x


From david at openpartnership.net  Thu Nov 10 16:03:48 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 22:03:48 +0100
Subject: Rev Image libraries
In-Reply-To: <OFC8DFE600.DBCE25AF-ON852570B5.00718B34@sealedair.com>
References: <OFC8DFE600.DBCE25AF-ON852570B5.00718B34@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <49452588-679B-4699-ADB9-F1A0AFF29CE6@openpartnership.net>

Anyone got a handy little function for getting the file or stack  
names of all the rev image libraries: grocking this now - if that's  
the right terminology?


From david at openpartnership.net  Thu Nov 10 16:12:20 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 22:12:20 +0100
Subject: Rev Image libraries
In-Reply-To: <49452588-679B-4699-ADB9-F1A0AFF29CE6@openpartnership.net>
References: <OFC8DFE600.DBCE25AF-ON852570B5.00718B34@sealedair.com>
	<49452588-679B-4699-ADB9-F1A0AFF29CE6@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <FC631019-81D4-4153-BBA1-261CDECB6346@openpartnership.net>

Not quite sure this gets them all - seem to be some things missing  
here compared to the rev image library drop down?

On 10 Nov 2005, at 22:03, David Bovill wrote:

> Anyone got a handy little function for getting the file or stack  
> names of all the rev image libraries: grocking this now - if that's  
> the right terminology?

function rev_MyImageLibraries
     put the mainstacks into allLoaded
     filter allLoaded with "revLib*"
     line_Delete "revLibrary", allLoaded
     line_Delete "revLibStandardButtons", allLoaded
     return allLoaded
end rev_MyImageLibraries

on line_Delete someLines, @fromContainer, partLine, skipLines
   set the wholeMatches to (partLine is empty)
   repeat with ii = 1 to the number of lines of someLines
     put line ii of someLines into someLine
     get lineOffset(someLine, fromContainer, skipLines)
     if it is not 0 then
       put it + skipLines into lineNum
       delete line lineNum of fromContainer
     end if
   end repeat
end line_Delete




From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Thu Nov 10 15:29:12 2005
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:29:12 -0500
Subject: Imitated multi-thread
In-Reply-To: <20051110030005.3F497825029@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BF9917C8.4C1B%hershrev@realtorsgroup.us>

On 11/9/05 10:37 PM, "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:

> Hi Hershel
> 
> Yes it's possible. You can do so via sockets or files or
> sql to communicate among the different parts of your applications.
Thanks, could you give me a bit of understanding?
Hershel.
> 
> Note that each method has it's advantages and inconveniences.
> 
> cheers
> Xavier
> http://monsieurx.com/taoo
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>> Hershel Fisch
>> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 00:47
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: Imitated multi-thread
>> 
>> Hello, is there a possibility to imitate a multi-thread by
>> using a few separate stand alones ? If yes how, if not what yes?
>> Thanks, Hershel
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
>> your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov 10 16:43:00 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 13:43:00 -0800
Subject: QT anomaly
Message-ID: <4373BEE4.2@fourthworld.com>


I have a customer for a new app who can't load a QuickTime file, yet I
can load the same file here without difficulty, and it works well on my 
other Mac, and on our tester's Mac.

The error occurs when I set the filename of the player to the selected
file, the result returning "could not open movie file".  Not very 
descriptive, but that's all I have to go on.

I've tried the file both from my local volume and a second partition.
The customer and I have the same OS version (OS X 10.4.3) and QT version
(7.0.3), and of course the same version of the Rev-based app.

The file name is short (about 12 characters), so I can't see how it
could be related to the known issue with long file names.

To help diagnose this I made a very simple test app, with one button, 
one field, and one player, with this script in the button:

-----
on mouseUp
   if the optionKey is "down" then
     set the filename of player 1 to empty
     put empty into fld 1
     exit to top
   end if
   --
   answer file "Select a file:"
   if it is empty then exit to top
   put it into tPath
   set the filename of player 1 to tPath
   put the result into tResult
   --
   put "system="& the systemVersion &cr& "QT="& qtVersion()&cr into tData
   put "machine="&machine()&cr &"Processor="&processor()&cr after tData
   put "Result="& tResult &cr&"sysError="&sysError() after tData
   put cr & "File="& tPath after tData
   put cr& "duration="& the duration of player 1 after tData
   put tData into fld 1
   --
   put fld 1 into url 
("file:"&specialFolderPath("Desktop")&"/HT-Test-log.txt")
end mouseUp
----------


He reports the same error in this test app, with this log file:

    system=10.4.3
    QT=7.0.3
    machine=unknown
    Processor=Motorola PowerPC
    Result=could not create movie reference
    sysError=-5551
    File=/Users/xxxxxxxxxxx/Desktop/audiofile.aif
    duration=0


Any other clues as to how I might diagnose this?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  __________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Nov 10 16:47:34 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 13:47:34 -0800
Subject: QT anomaly
In-Reply-To: <4373BEE4.2@fourthworld.com>
References: <4373BEE4.2@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <51226477-B4BA-4E40-852B-AF2D6A02949A@mangomultimedia.com>

On Nov 10, 2005, at 1:43 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Any other clues as to how I might diagnose this?

Try having the customer open the movie in QuickTime and see how that  
goes.  Perhaps it will give a more detailed error message.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From dleyanna at rtl.org  Thu Nov 10 16:48:40 2005
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 16:48:40 -0500
Subject: QT anomaly
In-Reply-To: <4373BEE4.2@fourthworld.com>
References: <4373BEE4.2@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <4373C038.3050802@rtl.org>

I don't want to ask a stupid question but, how do you know the QT file 
on the client's system is a vaild format? Can they open it up outside of 
the Rev. app?

Dave

Richard Gaskin wrote:

>
> I have a customer for a new app who can't load a QuickTime file, yet I
> can load the same file here without difficulty, and it works well on 
> my other Mac, and on our tester's Mac.
>
> The error occurs when I set the filename of the player to the selected
> file, the result returning "could not open movie file".  Not very 
> descriptive, but that's all I have to go on.
>
> I've tried the file both from my local volume and a second partition.
> The customer and I have the same OS version (OS X 10.4.3) and QT version
> (7.0.3), and of course the same version of the Rev-based app.
>
> The file name is short (about 12 characters), so I can't see how it
> could be related to the known issue with long file names.
>
> To help diagnose this I made a very simple test app, with one button, 
> one field, and one player, with this script in the button:
>
> -----
> on mouseUp
>   if the optionKey is "down" then
>     set the filename of player 1 to empty
>     put empty into fld 1
>     exit to top
>   end if
>   --
>   answer file "Select a file:"
>   if it is empty then exit to top
>   put it into tPath
>   set the filename of player 1 to tPath
>   put the result into tResult
>   --
>   put "system="& the systemVersion &cr& "QT="& qtVersion()&cr into tData
>   put "machine="&machine()&cr &"Processor="&processor()&cr after tData
>   put "Result="& tResult &cr&"sysError="&sysError() after tData
>   put cr & "File="& tPath after tData
>   put cr& "duration="& the duration of player 1 after tData
>   put tData into fld 1
>   --
>   put fld 1 into url 
> ("file:"&specialFolderPath("Desktop")&"/HT-Test-log.txt")
> end mouseUp
> ----------
>
>
> He reports the same error in this test app, with this log file:
>
>    system=10.4.3
>    QT=7.0.3
>    machine=unknown
>    Processor=Motorola PowerPC
>    Result=could not create movie reference
>    sysError=-5551
>    File=/Users/xxxxxxxxxxx/Desktop/audiofile.aif
>    duration=0
>
>
> Any other clues as to how I might diagnose this?
>
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  __________________________________________________
>  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov 10 16:50:34 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 13:50:34 -0800
Subject: QT anomaly
In-Reply-To: <51226477-B4BA-4E40-852B-AF2D6A02949A@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <4373BEE4.2@fourthworld.com>
	<51226477-B4BA-4E40-852B-AF2D6A02949A@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <4373C0AA.6000905@fourthworld.com>

Trevor DeVore wrote:
> On Nov 10, 2005, at 1:43 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Any other clues as to how I might diagnose this?
> 
> 
> Try having the customer open the movie in QuickTime and see how that  
> goes.  Perhaps it will give a more detailed error message.

Sorry, forgot to mention that the customer reports being able to play 
the file just fine in Apple's QuickTime player.

It's only both of our Rev-based apps he can't play it in, yet none of us 
can reproduce that here.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Nov 10 17:05:04 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:05:04 -0800
Subject: QT anomaly
In-Reply-To: <4373C0AA.6000905@fourthworld.com>
References: <4373BEE4.2@fourthworld.com>
	<51226477-B4BA-4E40-852B-AF2D6A02949A@mangomultimedia.com>
	<4373C0AA.6000905@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <9778B69A-0E15-4421-ADF0-70360A622A44@mangomultimedia.com>

On Nov 10, 2005, at 1:50 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Trevor DeVore wrote:
>> On Nov 10, 2005, at 1:43 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>> Any other clues as to how I might diagnose this?
>> Try having the customer open the movie in QuickTime and see how  
>> that  goes.  Perhaps it will give a more detailed error message.
>
> Sorry, forgot to mention that the customer reports being able to  
> play the file just fine in Apple's QuickTime player.
>
> It's only both of our Rev-based apps he can't play it in, yet none  
> of us can reproduce that here.

Weird.  QT Player and Rev should be able to open the same formats in  
most cases (drm could possibly cause issues with some files).  Has  
this been going on over a long period of time?   Has he tried a  
rebooting?


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Nov 10 17:06:15 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:06:15 -0800
Subject: QT anomaly
In-Reply-To: <4373BEE4.2@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BF990457.24AF5%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Richard Gaskin  wrote:

> I have a customer for a new app who can't load a QuickTime file, yet I
> can load the same file here without difficulty, and it works well on my
> other Mac, and on our tester's Mac.
> 
> The error occurs when I set the filename of the player to the selected
> file, the result returning "could not open movie file".  Not very
> descriptive, but that's all I have to go on.
> 
> I've tried the file both from my local volume and a second partition.
> The customer and I have the same OS version (OS X 10.4.3) and QT version
> (7.0.3), and of course the same version of the Rev-based app.
> 
> The file name is short (about 12 characters), so I can't see how it
> could be related to the known issue with long file names.

Spaces in the file path will sometimes confuse Rev -- perhaps this is the
issue.  See the past thread here:

http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2005-July/061722.html

...and also note the "space fix":

http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2005-July/061730.html
  
Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov 10 17:06:44 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:06:44 -0800
Subject: QT anomaly
In-Reply-To: <9778B69A-0E15-4421-ADF0-70360A622A44@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <4373BEE4.2@fourthworld.com>	<51226477-B4BA-4E40-852B-AF2D6A02949A@mangomultimedia.com>	<4373C0AA.6000905@fourthworld.com>
	<9778B69A-0E15-4421-ADF0-70360A622A44@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <4373C474.2020007@fourthworld.com>

Trevor DeVore wrote:
> On Nov 10, 2005, at 1:50 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Trevor DeVore wrote:
>>
>>> On Nov 10, 2005, at 1:43 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>>
>>>> Any other clues as to how I might diagnose this?
>>>
>>> Try having the customer open the movie in QuickTime and see how  
>>> that  goes.  Perhaps it will give a more detailed error message.
>>
>>
>> Sorry, forgot to mention that the customer reports being able to  play 
>> the file just fine in Apple's QuickTime player.
>>
>> It's only both of our Rev-based apps he can't play it in, yet none  of 
>> us can reproduce that here.
> 
> 
> Weird.  QT Player and Rev should be able to open the same formats in  
> most cases (drm could possibly cause issues with some files).  Has  this 
> been going on over a long period of time?   Has he tried a  rebooting?

Very weird.  This is a new app, and he's never been able to use it with 
any of his audio files.  He has rebooted, with no change.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Nov 10 17:08:11 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:08:11 -0800
Subject: Rev and the Disappearing Desktop: A Focus Shift
In-Reply-To: <12914689-0BEF-4550-A34F-3650A53898A2@openpartnership.net>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>
	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>
	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>
	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>
	<187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>
	<D9459E86-57AE-45FF-AB18-B99945632043@danshafer.com>
	<43738D70.6090809@chipp.com>
	<7F63D714-4FC0-4908-846D-EFB0BEFC51E1@danshafer.com>
	<C32E20B8-5DA6-4873-B173-DF5D39882C68@mac.com>
	<2993FD9C-1C49-45D2-89F4-40EFA35CDF96@danshafer.com>
	<12914689-0BEF-4550-A34F-3650A53898A2@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <B47CEE0A-0DEF-4F32-A05E-5863493BCF61@danshafer.com>


On Nov 10, 2005, at 1:01 PM, David Bovill wrote:

> This is OK - but more interested in Rev as a client side technology  
> here. The two customers I know of want fast rich clients on the  
> intranet, and standard web services that they can pick from a large  
> range of open source developers and languages for. Take this as a  
> third possibility?
>
Absolutely. I'm a great believer in "both-and" rather than "either-or">

>> I'm willing and eager to put some serious time and even a little  
>> money on the table to facilitate this if we can assemble a small  
>> team of people who want to explore it seriously.
>>
>> Any interest?
>
> Sure - would be prepared to top up the pot a little too,

Great. I'll check back and if we gen up enough interest, I'll figure  
out how to structure something.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov 10 17:22:23 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:22:23 -0800
Subject: QT anomaly
In-Reply-To: <BF990457.24AF5%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF990457.24AF5%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <4373C81F.60400@fourthworld.com>

Scott Rossi wrote:
> Recently, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> 
>>I have a customer for a new app who can't load a QuickTime file, yet I
>>can load the same file here without difficulty, and it works well on my
>>other Mac, and on our tester's Mac.
>>
>>The error occurs when I set the filename of the player to the selected
>>file, the result returning "could not open movie file".  Not very
>>descriptive, but that's all I have to go on.
>>
>>I've tried the file both from my local volume and a second partition.
>>The customer and I have the same OS version (OS X 10.4.3) and QT version
>>(7.0.3), and of course the same version of the Rev-based app.
>>
>>The file name is short (about 12 characters), so I can't see how it
>>could be related to the known issue with long file names.
> 
> 
> Spaces in the file path will sometimes confuse Rev -- perhaps this is the
> issue.  See the past thread here:
> 
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2005-July/061722.html
> 
> ...and also note the "space fix":
> 
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2005-July/061730.html

Thanks for the tip, but he and I are using the same path all the way 
down except for the user name.  I have spaces in the file name, and it 
plays well on my system here running the same app with the same OS and 
QT versions.  :(

Any third-party system enhancements that might cause issues like this?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From shaosean at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 10 17:23:34 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 17:23:34 -0500
Subject: [ANN] libMsn & MSN Revolution 1.0.0 Public Release 2
Message-ID: <BAY105-F962A1D5F954CFA3A78112C3660@phx.gbl>

Here's the second public release of my MSN Messenger "stuff". When was the 
first release? For the programming contest held by BvG. Anyways,

MSN Revolution is a MSN Messenger client written in Runtime Revolution 
entirely in Transcript. Currently it can login, get your contact list and 
you can chat with contacts. There are features from the first release that 
don't work in this release due to the re-write of the API in libMsn.

libMsn is MSPN9 (basically version 9 of the protocol) written entirely in 
Transcript. It handles all of the actual communication between your client 
and the MSN Service. MSN Revolution is powered by libMsn. Like MSN 
Revolution, libMsn is a work in progress and will be updated over time to 
add-in the missing feature set.

-Sean
www.shaosean.tk

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



From soapdog at mac.com  Thu Nov 10 17:30:56 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 20:30:56 -0200
Subject: [ANN] libMsn & MSN Revolution 1.0.0 Public Release 2
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-F962A1D5F954CFA3A78112C3660@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY105-F962A1D5F954CFA3A78112C3660@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <EC7EEF6D-2C04-44A0-A492-C7C8B6028446@mac.com>


On Nov 10, 2005, at 8:23 PM, Sean Shao wrote:

> Here's the second public release of my MSN Messenger "stuff". When  
> was the first release? For the programming contest held by BvG.  
> Anyways,
>
> MSN Revolution is a MSN Messenger client written in Runtime  
> Revolution entirely in Transcript. Currently it can login, get your  
> contact list and you can chat with contacts. There are features  
> from the first release that don't work in this release due to the  
> re-write of the API in libMsn.
>
> libMsn is MSPN9 (basically version 9 of the protocol) written  
> entirely in Transcript. It handles all of the actual communication  
> between your client and the MSN Service. MSN Revolution is powered  
> by libMsn. Like MSN Revolution, libMsn is a work in progress and  
> will be updated over time to add-in the missing feature set.
>
> -Sean
> www.shaosean.tk

Sean Shao,

Congratulations!!!!  I look forward to use your library. It's amazing  
to have oportunity to finally have a IM lib that can talk to msn.  
Thanks for your effort!!!

Cheers and thanks for your work
Andre

From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Thu Nov 10 18:01:29 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 17:01:29 -0600
Subject: QT anomaly
In-Reply-To: <4373BEE4.2@fourthworld.com>
References: <4373BEE4.2@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051110170100.2252acc8@exchange.slg.com>

Could it be the path to the file name is too long?  Could he try moving it 
to a different folder closer to the root?

At 03:43 PM 11/10/2005, you wrote:

>I have a customer for a new app who can't load a QuickTime file, yet I
>can load the same file here without difficulty, and it works well on my 
>other Mac, and on our tester's Mac.
>
>The error occurs when I set the filename of the player to the selected
>file, the result returning "could not open movie file".  Not very 
>descriptive, but that's all I have to go on.
>
>I've tried the file both from my local volume and a second partition.
>The customer and I have the same OS version (OS X 10.4.3) and QT version
>(7.0.3), and of course the same version of the Rev-based app.
>
>The file name is short (about 12 characters), so I can't see how it
>could be related to the known issue with long file names.
>
>To help diagnose this I made a very simple test app, with one button, one 
>field, and one player, with this script in the button:
>
>-----
>on mouseUp
>   if the optionKey is "down" then
>     set the filename of player 1 to empty
>     put empty into fld 1
>     exit to top
>   end if
>   --
>   answer file "Select a file:"
>   if it is empty then exit to top
>   put it into tPath
>   set the filename of player 1 to tPath
>   put the result into tResult
>   --
>   put "system="& the systemVersion &cr& "QT="& qtVersion()&cr into tData
>   put "machine="&machine()&cr &"Processor="&processor()&cr after tData
>   put "Result="& tResult &cr&"sysError="&sysError() after tData
>   put cr & "File="& tPath after tData
>   put cr& "duration="& the duration of player 1 after tData
>   put tData into fld 1
>   --
>   put fld 1 into url 
> ("file:"&specialFolderPath("Desktop")&"/HT-Test-log.txt")
>end mouseUp
>----------
>
>
>He reports the same error in this test app, with this log file:
>
>    system=10.4.3
>    QT=7.0.3
>    machine=unknown
>    Processor=Motorola PowerPC
>    Result=could not create movie reference
>    sysError=-5551
>    File=/Users/xxxxxxxxxxx/Desktop/audiofile.aif
>    duration=0
>
>
>Any other clues as to how I might diagnose this?
>
>--
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  __________________________________________________
>  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From userev at canelasoftware.com  Thu Nov 10 18:03:12 2005
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:03:12 -0800
Subject: QT anomaly
In-Reply-To: <4373C81F.60400@fourthworld.com>
References: <BF990457.24AF5%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<4373C81F.60400@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <FC37B89F-1CDB-4B53-97F4-3FB0CD35D53C@canelasoftware.com>


On Nov 10, 2005, at 2:22 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Thanks for the tip, but he and I are using the same path all the  
> way down except for the user name.  I have spaces in the file name,  
> and it plays well on my system here running the same app with the  
> same OS and QT versions.  :(
>
> Any third-party system enhancements that might cause issues like this?


Because it is an audio file, it should not be too processor or memory  
intensive.  Can you convert it to another format and see if he/she  
can open it in your Rev app?  Is it possible for this individual to  
re-install QT.  Maybe something is corrupted with the current  
install.  These are just some thoughts.  It is clear that the problem  
lies probably with his/her system as it works just fine on other  
systems with the same installation.  We have to think about what is  
happening on their end.  Has this system had a fresh OS install  
lately or has it been incrementally updated since 10.0?  Just  
grasping for some ideas here.


Mark Talluto
-- 
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From revnewbie at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 18:18:17 2005
From: revnewbie at gmail.com (K J)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 18:18:17 -0500
Subject: Need help with Revolution!
In-Reply-To: <3553E5E6-B540-45FF-8A2E-78B096A385F0@danshafer.com>
References: <20051016170005.042BE82521F@mail.runrev.com>
	<6A789006-3E9A-11DA-9815-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
	<9d8792720510161639q14a6c7f7wc784131bf9a8906a@mail.gmail.com>
	<3553E5E6-B540-45FF-8A2E-78B096A385F0@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <9d8792720511101518v5ccf2b0bk96d074aeff30fea0@mail.gmail.com>

Just wanted to say thanks Dan for creating your e-book on Revolution. I just
started reading it and I have to say so far I have learned alot from it. I
recomend this book to any newbie Revolution users out there.

Thanks

Kevin


From wow at together.net  Thu Nov 10 18:18:31 2005
From: wow at together.net (Richard Miller)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 18:18:31 -0500
Subject: Selecting a Wireless Connection
In-Reply-To: <FC37B89F-1CDB-4B53-97F4-3FB0CD35D53C@canelasoftware.com>
References: <BF990457.24AF5%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<4373C81F.60400@fourthworld.com>
	<FC37B89F-1CDB-4B53-97F4-3FB0CD35D53C@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <9184ecebbab2ff7886c3caa5e6d707e6@together.net>

I've got an application that does not give users access to the standard 
OSX interface (it's a touch screen driven application). The application 
requires a wireless connection to operate. The computer running this 
application is portable, and there's no telling exactly which wireless 
connection may be available at any given location.

Is there a way to get access to the available wireless connections from 
within Rev?

Thanks.
Richard Miller
Imprinter Technologies



From david at openpartnership.net  Thu Nov 10 18:28:10 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 00:28:10 +0100
Subject: Revealing a folder on Mac
In-Reply-To: <9184ecebbab2ff7886c3caa5e6d707e6@together.net>
References: <BF990457.24AF5%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<4373C81F.60400@fourthworld.com>
	<FC37B89F-1CDB-4B53-97F4-3FB0CD35D53C@canelasoftware.com>
	<9184ecebbab2ff7886c3caa5e6d707e6@together.net>
Message-ID: <75BBF947-53C5-4EFE-8AE6-3EAEB4132C66@openpartnership.net>

on folder_Open someFolder
     replace "/" with ":" in someFolder
     put line 1 of the volumes into startUpDisk
     -- "Macintosh HD:Applications:Revolution 2.6.1:"
     put startUpDisk before someFolder

     put "tell application" && kwote("Finder") into someAppleScript
     put return & "activate" after someAppleScript
     put return & "open folder" && kwote("[[someFolder]]") after  
someAppleScript
     put return & "end tell" after someAppleScript
     put merge(someAppleScript) into someAppleScript
     do someAppleScript as AppleScript
end folder_Open


Does this work for people?

From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Nov 10 18:30:13 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:30:13 -0800
Subject: Need help with Revolution!
In-Reply-To: <9d8792720511101518v5ccf2b0bk96d074aeff30fea0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20051016170005.042BE82521F@mail.runrev.com>
	<6A789006-3E9A-11DA-9815-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
	<9d8792720510161639q14a6c7f7wc784131bf9a8906a@mail.gmail.com>
	<3553E5E6-B540-45FF-8A2E-78B096A385F0@danshafer.com>
	<9d8792720511101518v5ccf2b0bk96d074aeff30fea0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A7D33CB5-586D-4F6D-8C5B-280413E07B38@danshafer.com>

Thanks, Kevin. It's always nice to hear kind words from happy readers!

Dan

On Nov 10, 2005, at 3:18 PM, K J wrote:

> Just wanted to say thanks Dan for creating your e-book on  
> Revolution. I just
> started reading it and I have to say so far I have learned alot  
> from it. I
> recomend this book to any newbie Revolution users out there.
>
> Thanks
>
> Kevin
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From revdan at danshafer.com  Thu Nov 10 18:34:18 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:34:18 -0800
Subject: Revealing a folder on Mac
In-Reply-To: <75BBF947-53C5-4EFE-8AE6-3EAEB4132C66@openpartnership.net>
References: <BF990457.24AF5%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<4373C81F.60400@fourthworld.com>
	<FC37B89F-1CDB-4B53-97F4-3FB0CD35D53C@canelasoftware.com>
	<9184ecebbab2ff7886c3caa5e6d707e6@together.net>
	<75BBF947-53C5-4EFE-8AE6-3EAEB4132C66@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <D196EB87-1637-491B-B226-6800405F5332@danshafer.com>

David....

NOt without some understanding of what "kwote" does.

Dan

On Nov 10, 2005, at 3:28 PM, David Bovill wrote:

> on folder_Open someFolder
>     replace "/" with ":" in someFolder
>     put line 1 of the volumes into startUpDisk
>     -- "Macintosh HD:Applications:Revolution 2.6.1:"
>     put startUpDisk before someFolder
>
>     put "tell application" && kwote("Finder") into someAppleScript
>     put return & "activate" after someAppleScript
>     put return & "open folder" && kwote("[[someFolder]]") after  
> someAppleScript
>     put return & "end tell" after someAppleScript
>     put merge(someAppleScript) into someAppleScript
>     do someAppleScript as AppleScript
> end folder_Open
>
>
> Does this work for people?
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From david at openpartnership.net  Thu Nov 10 18:43:24 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 00:43:24 +0100
Subject: Revealing a folder on Mac
In-Reply-To: <D196EB87-1637-491B-B226-6800405F5332@danshafer.com>
References: <BF990457.24AF5%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<4373C81F.60400@fourthworld.com>
	<FC37B89F-1CDB-4B53-97F4-3FB0CD35D53C@canelasoftware.com>
	<9184ecebbab2ff7886c3caa5e6d707e6@together.net>
	<75BBF947-53C5-4EFE-8AE6-3EAEB4132C66@openpartnership.net>
	<D196EB87-1637-491B-B226-6800405F5332@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <969978F2-2DCB-493A-8DDD-69626916221B@openpartnership.net>

Sorry:

function kwote string
     return quote & string & quote
end kwote


On 11 Nov 2005, at 00:34, Dan Shafer wrote:

> David....
>
> NOt without some understanding of what "kwote" does.
>
> Dan
>
> On Nov 10, 2005, at 3:28 PM, David Bovill wrote:
>
>
>> on folder_Open someFolder
>>     replace "/" with ":" in someFolder
>>     put line 1 of the volumes into startUpDisk
>>     -- "Macintosh HD:Applications:Revolution 2.6.1:"
>>     put startUpDisk before someFolder
>>
>>     put "tell application" && kwote("Finder") into someAppleScript
>>     put return & "activate" after someAppleScript
>>     put return & "open folder" && kwote("[[someFolder]]") after  
>> someAppleScript
>>     put return & "end tell" after someAppleScript
>>     put merge(someAppleScript) into someAppleScript
>>     do someAppleScript as AppleScript
>> end folder_Open
>>
>>
>> Does this work for people?



From david at openpartnership.net  Thu Nov 10 19:47:45 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 01:47:45 +0100
Subject: Safe (icon) image IDs
In-Reply-To: <969978F2-2DCB-493A-8DDD-69626916221B@openpartnership.net>
References: <BF990457.24AF5%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<4373C81F.60400@fourthworld.com>
	<FC37B89F-1CDB-4B53-97F4-3FB0CD35D53C@canelasoftware.com>
	<9184ecebbab2ff7886c3caa5e6d707e6@together.net>
	<75BBF947-53C5-4EFE-8AE6-3EAEB4132C66@openpartnership.net>
	<D196EB87-1637-491B-B226-6800405F5332@danshafer.com>
	<969978F2-2DCB-493A-8DDD-69626916221B@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <6964BA92-41F1-4250-A4CA-9E9A91F1684E@openpartnership.net>

If I am creating a library of icons-is there a way of ensuring that  
the ids are unique - keep getting "icon clashes"....


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Thu Nov 10 19:58:06 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 16:58:06 -0800
Subject: pull down menu
In-Reply-To: <6DEFB0A0-695A-4D9E-8C67-680726AC3F77@nextra.at>
References: <6DEFB0A0-695A-4D9E-8C67-680726AC3F77@nextra.at>
Message-ID: <p0621022bbf999c2e96eb@[66.93.39.98]>

At 2:23 PM +0100 11/10/2005, Dominik Hruza wrote:
>i just started working with the program designing the interface for 
>an adressbook
>
>i want to get rid of the 3D effect in the menu of a pull down 
>button, but set a background color and so on to the menu that 
>appears.

If you want to specify the appearance yourself, rather than accept 
the way the system draws the menu, you need to do one of two things:

- Set the lookAndFeel to something other than "Appearance Manager". 
(This may not be a good choice, unless you want to completely control 
every aspect of the application's appearance and not use the OS 
appearance for anything.)

- Create a stack menu instead of using a button menu. A stack menu is 
simply a stack that appears when you click a button, and that behaves 
like a menu. Since you design the menu directly in a stack, you can 
have complete control over its appearance, colors, fonts, etc.

There's some information about stack menus in the online docs, at the 
bottom of the section on "About menus and the menu bar". There is 
also an example in the "Menus" scripting conference stack, which you 
can download from <http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences/>.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Nov 10 21:04:29 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 18:04:29 -0800
Subject: QT anomaly
In-Reply-To: <4373C81F.60400@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BF993C2D.24B38%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Richard Gaskin  wrote:

>> Spaces in the file path will sometimes confuse Rev -- perhaps this is the
>> issue.  See the past thread here:
>> 
>> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2005-July/061722.html
>> 
>> ...and also note the "space fix":
>> 
>> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2005-July/061730.html
> 
> Thanks for the tip, but he and I are using the same path all the way
> down except for the user name.  I have spaces in the file name, and it
> plays well on my system here running the same app with the same OS and
> QT versions.  :(

You still might consider implementing the fix if you're distributing your
stack/app to multiple parties as this will make player performance more
reliable.

In any event, you say the difference between your setup and and you client's
is the user name.  Is it possible something is going on there?  Maybe some
non-Roman characters in the name or something else?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov 10 21:09:58 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 18:09:58 -0800
Subject: QT anomaly
In-Reply-To: <BF993C2D.24B38%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF993C2D.24B38%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <4373FD76.7020105@fourthworld.com>

Scott Rossi wrote:
> Recently, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> 
>>>Spaces in the file path will sometimes confuse Rev -- perhaps this is the
>>>issue.  See the past thread here:
>>>
>>>http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2005-July/061722.html
>>>
>>>...and also note the "space fix":
>>>
>>>http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2005-July/061730.html
>>
>>Thanks for the tip, but he and I are using the same path all the way
>>down except for the user name.  I have spaces in the file name, and it
>>plays well on my system here running the same app with the same OS and
>>QT versions.  :(
> 
> 
> You still might consider implementing the fix if you're distributing your
> stack/app to multiple parties as this will make player performance more
> reliable.
> 
> In any event, you say the difference between your setup and and you client's
> is the user name.  Is it possible something is going on there?  Maybe some
> non-Roman characters in the name or something else?

That's one difference, but does not appear to be a significant one -- 
his name is straight ASCII, verified in my log file.

Looking at other, stranger possibilities, I had him check his drives 
free space and SMART status -- both ok.

This one's a stumper.  I know there's an answer, but I just haven't 
discovered the secret to finding it....

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From dweeble at wi.rr.com  Thu Nov 10 21:19:25 2005
From: dweeble at wi.rr.com (Michael D.)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 20:19:25 -0600
Subject: Selecting a Wireless Connection
References: <BF990457.24AF5%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<4373C81F.60400@fourthworld.com>
	<FC37B89F-1CDB-4B53-97F4-3FB0CD35D53C@canelasoftware.com>
	<9184ecebbab2ff7886c3caa5e6d707e6@together.net>
Message-ID: <001f01c5e666$563d5580$0300a8c0@olie>

Richard
Are the wireless access point private or public ?
I have multiple sites with wireless and use a unique additional DNS entry
(base convert the ip)per site to identify each location, I key off the
gateway address change. When the system see's this gateway change the system
will look for the unique DNS identifier then place that ID in its
environment for the app to key off so it knows where its location is.
Michael

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Miller" <wow at together.net>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 5:18 PM
Subject: Selecting a Wireless Connection


> I've got an application that does not give users access to the standard
> OSX interface (it's a touch screen driven application). The application
> requires a wireless connection to operate. The computer running this
> application is portable, and there's no telling exactly which wireless
> connection may be available at any given location.
>
> Is there a way to get access to the available wireless connections from
> within Rev?
>
> Thanks.
> Richard Miller
> Imprinter Technologies
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Nov 10 21:28:21 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 18:28:21 -0800
Subject: QT anomaly
In-Reply-To: <4373FD76.7020105@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BF9941C5.24B43%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Richard Gaskin  wrote:

>>> Thanks for the tip, but he and I are using the same path all the way
>>> down except for the user name.  I have spaces in the file name, and it
>>> plays well on my system here running the same app with the same OS and
>>> QT versions.  :(
>> 
>> 
>> You still might consider implementing the fix if you're distributing your
>> stack/app to multiple parties as this will make player performance more
>> reliable.
>> 
>> In any event, you say the difference between your setup and and you client's
>> is the user name.  Is it possible something is going on there?  Maybe some
>> non-Roman characters in the name or something else?
> 
> That's one difference, but does not appear to be a significant one --
> his name is straight ASCII, verified in my log file.
> 
> Looking at other, stranger possibilities, I had him check his drives
> free space and SMART status -- both ok.
> 
> This one's a stumper.  I know there's an answer, but I just haven't
> discovered the secret to finding it....

Just out of curiosity, did you try the space fix mentioned above to see if
it made any difference?  I understand that from all appearances it shouldn't
have any effect, but we've all seen the reality of
"it shouldn't, but it does...".

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov 10 21:31:04 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 18:31:04 -0800
Subject: QT anomaly
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051110170100.2252acc8@exchange.slg.com>
References: <4373BEE4.2@fourthworld.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20051110170100.2252acc8@exchange.slg.com>
Message-ID: <43740268.7030009@fourthworld.com>

Peter T. Evensen wrote:
> Could it be the path to the file name is too long?  Could he try moving 
> it to a different folder closer to the root?

Thanks for the possible lead, but as shown in the log the full path and 
all elements in the path are pretty short.

I think we're facing something weird here, something unexpected but once 
we find it we'll go "a ha!".

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


> At 03:43 PM 11/10/2005, you wrote:
> 
>> I have a customer for a new app who can't load a QuickTime file, yet I
>> can load the same file here without difficulty, and it works well on 
>> my other Mac, and on our tester's Mac.
>>
>> The error occurs when I set the filename of the player to the selected
>> file, the result returning "could not open movie file".  Not very 
>> descriptive, but that's all I have to go on.
>>
>> I've tried the file both from my local volume and a second partition.
>> The customer and I have the same OS version (OS X 10.4.3) and QT version
>> (7.0.3), and of course the same version of the Rev-based app.
>>
>> The file name is short (about 12 characters), so I can't see how it
>> could be related to the known issue with long file names.
>>
>> To help diagnose this I made a very simple test app, with one button, 
>> one field, and one player, with this script in the button:
>>
>> -----
>> on mouseUp
>>   if the optionKey is "down" then
>>     set the filename of player 1 to empty
>>     put empty into fld 1
>>     exit to top
>>   end if
>>   --
>>   answer file "Select a file:"
>>   if it is empty then exit to top
>>   put it into tPath
>>   set the filename of player 1 to tPath
>>   put the result into tResult
>>   --
>>   put "system="& the systemVersion &cr& "QT="& qtVersion()&cr into tData
>>   put "machine="&machine()&cr &"Processor="&processor()&cr after tData
>>   put "Result="& tResult &cr&"sysError="&sysError() after tData
>>   put cr & "File="& tPath after tData
>>   put cr& "duration="& the duration of player 1 after tData
>>   put tData into fld 1
>>   --
>>   put fld 1 into url 
>> ("file:"&specialFolderPath("Desktop")&"/HT-Test-log.txt")
>> end mouseUp
>> ----------
>>
>>
>> He reports the same error in this test app, with this log file:
>>
>>    system=10.4.3
>>    QT=7.0.3
>>    machine=unknown
>>    Processor=Motorola PowerPC
>>    Result=could not create movie reference
>>    sysError=-5551
>>    File=/Users/xxxxxxxxxxx/Desktop/audiofile.aif
>>    duration=0
>>
>>
>> Any other clues as to how I might diagnose this?



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov 10 21:41:33 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 18:41:33 -0800
Subject: QT anomaly
In-Reply-To: <BF9941C5.24B43%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF9941C5.24B43%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <437404DD.2060704@fourthworld.com>

Scott Rossi wrote:
> Recently, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> 
>>>>Thanks for the tip, but he and I are using the same path all the way
>>>>down except for the user name.  I have spaces in the file name, and it
>>>>plays well on my system here running the same app with the same OS and
>>>>QT versions.  :(
>>>
>>>
>>>You still might consider implementing the fix if you're distributing your
>>>stack/app to multiple parties as this will make player performance more
>>>reliable.
>>>
>>>In any event, you say the difference between your setup and and you client's
>>>is the user name.  Is it possible something is going on there?  Maybe some
>>>non-Roman characters in the name or something else?
>>
>>That's one difference, but does not appear to be a significant one --
>>his name is straight ASCII, verified in my log file.
>>
>>Looking at other, stranger possibilities, I had him check his drives
>>free space and SMART status -- both ok.
>>
>>This one's a stumper.  I know there's an answer, but I just haven't
>>discovered the secret to finding it....
> 
> 
> Just out of curiosity, did you try the space fix mentioned above to see if
> it made any difference?  I understand that from all appearances it shouldn't
> have any effect, but we've all seen the reality of
> "it shouldn't, but it does...".

I did have him remove the space in the file name, but still no go.

I haven't yet sent him a new build with the URL syntax because I'm 
trying not to overload him with downloading and testing stuff.

If he's using US English I'm at a loss to understand why the URL syntax 
could come into play, and before I saddle him with another 2MB download 
it would be helpful to have Mark Waddingham or someone else familiar 
with the underpinnings explain why that might be useful.

The customer is in Canada, so he may have different language settings 
that I have here.  I've just sent him a note to ask which language his 
OS is set to.

When we're looking at file names in straight ASCII and which are short, 
under what circumstances would the URL syntax be helpful?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Nov 10 21:47:35 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 20:47:35 -0600
Subject: Safe (icon) image IDs
In-Reply-To: <6964BA92-41F1-4250-A4CA-9E9A91F1684E@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <BF996267.2F8C5%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/10/05 6:47 PM, "David Bovill" <david at openpartnership.net> wrote:

> If I am creating a library of icons-is there a way of ensuring that
> the ids are unique - keep getting "icon clashes"....

Well, we're keeping an informal ID registry (including the IDs used by
RunRev) at the revInterop site:

  http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/revInterop

Click on "Database", then on "ImageIDs".

If you'd like to register for a range of ID numbers, let me know and I'll
add it to the list.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Nov 10 22:12:10 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 04:12:10 +0100
Subject: set the systemFileSelector to false
In-Reply-To: <OFC8DFE600.DBCE25AF-ON852570B5.00718B34@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <20051111023444.1A1C4825005@mail.runrev.com>

you could grab the old selector from the MetaCard GUI and use that.

Im working on a tool for that for a long time and it evolved
out of that context. I'll see about putting something back
into shape for MC soon. I'll see about the Rev integration
later... Keep asking, I'll step it up!

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 21:53
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: set the systemFileSelector to false
> 
> Anyone ever use this?
> 
> set the systemFileSelector to false
> 
> This used to allow the a rev built-in custom file selector 
> (unix style). 
> When I build my standalone with 2.6.1, this fileselector is 
> not included. 
> Once upon a time, there was a selectable item to include the 
> unix file selector. I believe this is what is missing. How 
> can I include the unix file selector in a 2.6.1 build?
> 
> Best regards,
> Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Thu Nov 10 22:17:41 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 13:17:41 +1000
Subject: Revealing a folder on Mac
In-Reply-To: <75BBF947-53C5-4EFE-8AE6-3EAEB4132C66@openpartnership.net>
References: <BF990457.24AF5%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<4373C81F.60400@fourthworld.com>
	<FC37B89F-1CDB-4B53-97F4-3FB0CD35D53C@canelasoftware.com>
	<9184ecebbab2ff7886c3caa5e6d707e6@together.net>
	<75BBF947-53C5-4EFE-8AE6-3EAEB4132C66@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511101917o9ab4ec9n70a70de61065f982@mail.gmail.com>

> on folder_Open someFolder
>      replace "/" with ":" in someFolder
>      put line 1 of the volumes into startUpDisk
>      -- "Macintosh HD:Applications:Revolution 2.6.1:"
>      put startUpDisk before someFolder
>
>      put "tell application" && kwote("Finder") into someAppleScript
>      put return & "activate" after someAppleScript
>      put return & "open folder" && kwote("[[someFolder]]") after
> someAppleScript
>      put return & "end tell" after someAppleScript
>      put merge(someAppleScript) into someAppleScript
>      do someAppleScript as AppleScript
> end folder_Open
>
>
> Does this work for people?

Yes, it works for me (Mac OS X 10.4.3) but I prefer to let Rev do the
work of finding the correct path for AppleScript. Also I have never
used the merge function and can't really see why it is needed. Here is
my version, which includes an error check at the end:

on folder_Open someFolder
    put revMacFromUnixPath(someFolder) into someFolder
    put "tell application" && kwote("Finder") into someAppleScript
    put return & "activate" after someAppleScript
    put return & "open folder" && kwote(someFolder) after someAppleScript
    put return & "end tell" after someAppleScript
    do someAppleScript as AppleScript
    if the result is not empty then answer error "Can't open folder "
& someFolder & cr & the result
end folder_Open


Note: I always use cr instead of return to make a new line as I like
to reserve the "return" keyword for sending values back from
functions.

Cheers,
Sarah


From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 10 22:51:40 2005
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 19:51:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: the kinks do not appear
In-Reply-To: <39EB5C20-8BFC-4C0F-9E5F-9F4D0A5EE73B@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <20051111035140.24157.qmail@web33010.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



--- Eric Chatonet
<eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com> wrote:

> 1. Set the style of each header to "link"
> 2. Set the underlineLinks property of your
> stack to false
> 3. Set the different link colors in an
> appropriate way if needed
> 
> Then the kinks do not appear

a great double-indentree!

> but do exist and you just need:
> 
> on linkClicked pLink
>    <do whatever with pLink>
> end linkClicked
> 
> pLink mirrors always the complete header.

erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
__________________________________ 
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu Nov 10 22:55:16 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:55:16 -0600
Subject: set the systemFileSelector to false
In-Reply-To: <OFC8DFE600.DBCE25AF-ON852570B5.00718B34@sealedair.com>
References: <OFC8DFE600.DBCE25AF-ON852570B5.00718B34@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <43741624.5090705@hyperactivesw.com>

Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:
> Anyone ever use this?
> 
> set the systemFileSelector to false
> 
> This used to allow the a rev built-in custom file selector (unix style). 
> When I build my standalone with 2.6.1, this fileselector is not included. 
> Once upon a time, there was a selectable item to include the unix file 
> selector. I believe this is what is missing. How can I include the unix 
> file selector in a 2.6.1 build?

It's still there in the Unix pane of the Standalone Applications 
Settings dialog. (That dialog is in the File menu.)

This week's scripting conference is on building standalones -- come and 
ask questions on Saturday.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Nov 10 23:00:21 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 05:00:21 +0100
Subject: Safe (icon) image IDs
In-Reply-To: <6964BA92-41F1-4250-A4CA-9E9A91F1684E@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <20051111032252.CF7038251F8@mail.runrev.com>

> If I am creating a library of icons-is there a way of 
> ensuring that the ids are unique - keep getting "icon clashes"....

David

Another xos function I've posted long ago...
(I'll add more of this to the taoo wiki soon)

We definitely need a mailist search web tool ;)
(if I had 8 hands...)

Imagine this is still "UNCO" in the bugzillas since 12/2004!

http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=2449
But there's good and bad in it all...

Meanwhile here's the answer to your question...

http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard at lists.runrev.com/msg12009.html

There's lots more handlers like duplicate name checks, img id Fix (with id
specific ranges, fixes for controls using those medias), etc... in
the TAOO stacks. When I say lots more, I mean dozens and I still haven't
scripted half of all I plan to script for images alone ;)

But here's the interface so far:
http://www.monsieurx.com/tiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=11

File Download is for a near perfect image library here (4MBs) (beta warning)
http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=82

Note this is both the main library and an external stack image browser
editor.
Too many features to list. But you can drag and drop images to import them
and it automatically assigns a new unique id in your range just to name a
couple!

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> David Bovill
> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 01:48
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Safe (icon) image IDs
> 
> If I am creating a library of icons-is there a way of 
> ensuring that the ids are unique - keep getting "icon clashes"....
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Fri Nov 11 00:03:45 2005
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 06:03:45 +0100
Subject: QT anomaly
In-Reply-To: <4373BEE4.2@fourthworld.com>
References: <4373BEE4.2@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <p06200700bf99d60f38cb@[10.0.0.4]>

At 1:43 PM -0800 11/10/05, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>    system=10.4.3

Looks like he's recently updated to 10.4.3, might some
weirdo permissions thing be involved? Maybe he might try
repair permissions?

ciao,
sims


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Nov 11 00:21:38 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:21:38 -0800
Subject: QT anomaly
In-Reply-To: <p06200700bf99d60f38cb@[10.0.0.4]>
References: <4373BEE4.2@fourthworld.com> <p06200700bf99d60f38cb@[10.0.0.4]>
Message-ID: <43742A62.5050400@fourthworld.com>

sims wrote:
> At 1:43 PM -0800 11/10/05, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>>
>>    system=10.4.3
> 
> 
> Looks like he's recently updated to 10.4.3, might some
> weirdo permissions thing be involved? Maybe he might try
> repair permissions?

Interesting notion. Could permissions affect a file such that it can 
play well in one app but not another?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From sims at ezpzapps.com  Fri Nov 11 00:28:32 2005
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 06:28:32 +0100
Subject: QT anomaly
In-Reply-To: <43742A62.5050400@fourthworld.com>
References: <4373BEE4.2@fourthworld.com>
	<p06200700bf99d60f38cb@[10.0.0.4]> <43742A62.5050400@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <p06200702bf99db046240@[10.0.0.5]>

>sims wrote:
>>At 1:43 PM -0800 11/10/05, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>    system=10.4.3
>>
>>
>>Looks like he's recently updated to 10.4.3, might some
>>weirdo permissions thing be involved? Maybe he might try
>>repair permissions?
>
>Interesting notion. Could permissions affect a file such that it can 
>play well in one app but not another?

Don't know...but perhaps a weirdo problem requires a weirdo solution.


Also, 10.4.3 seems to have caused weirdo problems with video cards:

"Dear SketchUp User: The release of Apple's update to OS X 10.4.3 has 
caused some problems for a number of OpenGL applications including 
SketchUp. If your video is driven by:

ATI video card: You may see extreme cases where dots follow your 
cursor when using tools like the Pencil tool in larger models. Or you 
may see things like lines that are drawn by the tool don't seem to be 
at the right depth. In both of these cases, the issue can be fixed by 
turning off fast feedback: SketchUp pulldown menu -> Preferences -> 
OpenGL -> uncheck "Use fast feedback"

nVidia video card: You may be unable to see geometry as it is drawn 
in large models until after the drawing action is complete - e.g., no 
rubber band stretching of an edge with the Pencil tool. This issue 
can be fixed by turning off fast feedback as mentioned above. You may 
also not be able to see the selection boxes when using the Select 
tool. Unfortunately, the only fix for this issue is to turn off your 
video card's hardware acceleration: SketchUp pulldown menu -> 
Preferences -> OpenGL -> uncheck "Use Hardware acceleration" These 
are the issues which have come to our attention, but there may be 
other problems. Unfortunately, the Apple update has caused problems 
for a number of other applications that use OpenGL. @Last is working 
with Apple to hopefully have Apple issue a fix as soon as possible. 
In the meantime if you have not already updated to OS X 10.4.3, @Last 
recommends that you refrain from doing so temporarily.We apologize 
for any inconvenience this may cause and please let us know if you 
have any questions or concerns."

ciao,
sims


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Nov 11 00:40:03 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 23:40:03 -0600
Subject: OT: Web site designer
Message-ID: <43742EB3.7090505@hyperactivesw.com>

This is off topic, but you guys know everything. I told someone I'd ask 
here if anyone knows a reasonably-priced web designer to do a small web 
site, basic stuff, not too complicated. Money is an issue but there's 
some. Please let me know off list if you know anyone who might be 
interested and I'll get them in touch with the person. Thanks.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From sims at ezpzapps.com  Fri Nov 11 00:38:40 2005
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 06:38:40 +0100
Subject: QT anomaly
In-Reply-To: <43742A62.5050400@fourthworld.com>
References: <4373BEE4.2@fourthworld.com>
	<p06200700bf99d60f38cb@[10.0.0.4]> <43742A62.5050400@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <p06200703bf99de1419fc@[10.0.0.5]>

>sims wrote:
>>At 1:43 PM -0800 11/10/05, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>    system=10.4.3


Also....From http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=160037

"I installed the 10.4.3 update and I noticed that I don't have any 
sound in Warcraft III any more. Is there anything I can do before I 
wipe it out and reinstall it?"

Which prompted:

"I had a similar problem and this solved it:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=300832

No sound from some applications,..."

ciao,
sims


From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Nov 11 01:25:52 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 00:25:52 -0600
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <DEBD6783-56B3-456B-BADD-2B503F59D903@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>	<187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>	<D9459E86-57AE-45FF-AB18-B99945632043@danshafer.com>	<43738D70.6090809@chipp.com>	<79414589-7C58-4C9B-9806-7D99C8050EA7@mangomultimedia.com>
	<DEBD6783-56B3-456B-BADD-2B503F59D903@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <43743970.6090308@chipp.com>

Dan,

Good point about XMLHTTPRequest, but as someone who works with dynamic 
content and CSS, I can tell you (and you should know this;-), getting 
CSS to perform as expected cross browser and cross OS is nigh impossible 
for dynamic content. At least it's not for the faint of heart!

That said and the rest of this discussion notwithstanding, I certainly 
cannot fault you for pointing out what you believe is a great 'shift.' 
Too bad Scott Raney, the father of Transcript/MetaCard wasn't here to 
applaud you for being only 9 years late:-)

His most prescient essay "The Case Against Strained Carrots" described 
the web services model before the term 'web services' was created-- back 
in 1996! Truly visionary stuff!
http://www.metacard.com/wp4.html

You are correct in that AJAX certainly has more momentum and visibility 
than Rev has ever had. And I imagine there are more AJAX apps, even at 
this early date, than Rev ones.

The Revolution secret, like the case against strained carrots, I plan to 
keep to myself! ;-)

your foil and your turn,

Chipp



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Nov 11 02:23:36 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 23:23:36 -0800
Subject: [OT] Sony music installs secret malware gateway
Message-ID: <437446F8.1010004@fourthworld.com>

We were recently discussing the pros and cons of Windows auto-run files 
for CDs.  It turns out that the biggest threat isn't some 14-year-old 
with a grudge -- it's one of the world's largest corporations:



Posted on Thu, Nov. 10, 2005
Viruses exploit Sony CD copy-protection scheme

SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) - A controversial copy-protection program that 
automatically installs when some Sony BMG audio CDs are played on 
personal computers is now being exploited by malicious software that 
takes advantage of the antipiracy technology's ability to hide files.

The Trojan horse programs -- three have so far been identified by 
antivirus companies -- are named so as to trigger the cloaking feature 
of Sony's XCP2 antipiracy technology. By piggybacking on that function, 
the malicious programs can enter undetected, security experts said Thursday.

``This could be the advanced guard,'' said Graham Cluley, senior 
technology consultant at the security firm Sophos. ``We wouldn't be 
surprised at all if we saw more malware that exploits what Sony has 
introduced.''

The copy protection program is included on about 20 popular music 
titles, including releases by Van Zant and The Bad Plus, and disclosure 
of its existence has raised the ire of many in the computing community, 
who consider it to constitute spyware.

Sony BMG Music Entertainment and the company that developed the 
software, First 4 Internet, have claimed that the technology poses no 
security threat. Still, Sony posted a patch last week that uncloaks 
files hidden by the software.

On Thursday, Sony released a statement ``deeply regretting any 
disruption that this may have caused.'' It also said it was working with 
Symantec and other firms to ensure any content-protection technology 
``continues to be safe.''

Neither Sony spokesman John McKay nor First 4 Internet CEO Mathew 
Gilliat-Smith returned messages seeking additional comment.

Windows expert Mark Russinovich discovered the hidden copy-protection 
technology on Oct. 31 and posted his findings on his Web log. He noted 
that the license agreement that pops up said a small program would be 
installed, but it did not specify it would be hidden.

Manual attempts to remove the software can disable the PC's CD drive. 
Sony offers an uninstallation program, but consumers must request it by 
filling out two forms on the Internet.

``What they did was not intentionally malicious,'' Cluley said. ``If 
anything, it was slightly inept.''

The copy-protection software, which Sony says is a necessary ``speed 
bump'' to limit how many times a CD is copied, only works on 
Windows-based PCs. Users of Macintosh and Linux computers are not 
restricted.

The viruses also only target Windows-based machines.

The infection opens up a backdoor, which could be used to steal personal 
information, launch attacks on other computers and send spam, antivirus 
companies said.
...
<http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/technology/personal_technology/13134753.htm>


More at slashdot:
<http://slashdot.org/~xtracto/journal/121088>


-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Fri Nov 11 02:28:18 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 08:28:18 +0100
Subject: [OT] Sony music installs secret malware gateway
In-Reply-To: <437446F8.1010004@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <OF4D3F9C68.DB53606C-ONC12570B6.0028D36F-C12570B6.002909DF@deutsche-boerse.com>

No Richard, it's not just for PCs... 

http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/05/11/11/064215.shtml?tid=233&tid=3

now, who read EULAs anyway?

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 11/11/2005 08:23:36:

> We were recently discussing the pros and cons of Windows auto-run files 
> for CDs.  It turns out that the biggest threat isn't some 14-year-old 
> with a grudge -- it's one of the world's largest corporations:
> 
> 
> 
> Posted on Thu, Nov. 10, 2005
> Viruses exploit Sony CD copy-protection scheme
> 
> SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) - A controversial copy-protection program that 
> automatically installs when some Sony BMG audio CDs are played on 
> personal computers is now being exploited by malicious software that 
> takes advantage of the antipiracy technology's ability to hide files.
> 
> The Trojan horse programs -- three have so far been identified by 
> antivirus companies -- are named so as to trigger the cloaking feature 
> of Sony's XCP2 antipiracy technology. By piggybacking on that function, 
> the malicious programs can enter undetected, security experts said 
Thursday.
> 
> ``This could be the advanced guard,'' said Graham Cluley, senior 
> technology consultant at the security firm Sophos. ``We wouldn't be 
> surprised at all if we saw more malware that exploits what Sony has 
> introduced.''
> 
> The copy protection program is included on about 20 popular music 
> titles, including releases by Van Zant and The Bad Plus, and disclosure 
> of its existence has raised the ire of many in the computing community, 
> who consider it to constitute spyware.
> 
> Sony BMG Music Entertainment and the company that developed the 
> software, First 4 Internet, have claimed that the technology poses no 
> security threat. Still, Sony posted a patch last week that uncloaks 
> files hidden by the software.
> 
> On Thursday, Sony released a statement ``deeply regretting any 
> disruption that this may have caused.'' It also said it was working with 

> Symantec and other firms to ensure any content-protection technology 
> ``continues to be safe.''
> 
> Neither Sony spokesman John McKay nor First 4 Internet CEO Mathew 
> Gilliat-Smith returned messages seeking additional comment.
> 
> Windows expert Mark Russinovich discovered the hidden copy-protection 
> technology on Oct. 31 and posted his findings on his Web log. He noted 
> that the license agreement that pops up said a small program would be 
> installed, but it did not specify it would be hidden.
> 
> Manual attempts to remove the software can disable the PC's CD drive. 
> Sony offers an uninstallation program, but consumers must request it by 
> filling out two forms on the Internet.
> 
> ``What they did was not intentionally malicious,'' Cluley said. ``If 
> anything, it was slightly inept.''
> 
> The copy-protection software, which Sony says is a necessary ``speed 
> bump'' to limit how many times a CD is copied, only works on 
> Windows-based PCs. Users of Macintosh and Linux computers are not 
> restricted.
> 
> The viruses also only target Windows-based machines.
> 
> The infection opens up a backdoor, which could be used to steal personal 

> information, launch attacks on other computers and send spam, antivirus 
> companies said.
> ...
> <http://www.mercurynews.
> 
com/mld/mercurynews/business/technology/personal_technology/13134753.htm>
> 
> 
> More at slashdot:
> <http://slashdot.org/~xtracto/journal/121088>
> 
> 
> -- 
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Media Corporation
>   ___________________________________________________________
>   Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
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recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
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any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
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From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Nov 11 03:01:11 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 00:01:11 -0800
Subject: [OT] Sony music installs secret malware gateway
In-Reply-To: <OF4D3F9C68.DB53606C-ONC12570B6.0028D36F-C12570B6.002909DF@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OF4D3F9C68.DB53606C-ONC12570B6.0028D36F-C12570B6.002909DF@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <43744FC7.4080504@fourthworld.com>

xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:
> No Richard, it's not just for PCs... 
> 
> http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/05/11/11/064215.shtml?tid=233&tid=3

The difference at play is critical:

On a Mac the user has to at least do something explcit, while on Windows 
unless you've specifically reconfigured your system you have no choice 
--  simply inserting the CD triggers the auto-run which in turn triggers 
the installation of the malware gateway.

Welcome to the joys of auto-run.

Too bad Bill doesn't simply teach his users how to open a CD instead.


>><http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/technology/personal_technology/13134753.htm>
> 
>>
>>More at slashdot:
>><http://slashdot.org/~xtracto/journal/121088>


-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Fri Nov 11 03:01:17 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 09:01:17 +0100
Subject: Group scroll bar on 2000
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051110122926.21f14ed0@exchange.slg.com>
Message-ID: <OF4E51054D.70E4014C-ONC12570B6.002B2EA1-C12570B6.002C0F02@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Peter,

I couldn't  remove it either... 

I even tried changing the borderwidth and the scrollbarwidth and it keeps 
that big border... 
It's funny fields and groups do not have the same border width...

cheers
Xavier


use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 10/11/2005 19:30:28:

> Hey, all.
> 
> I hope someone can answer this question quickly.  I have a scroll bar on 
a 
> group and a scroll bar on a field.  Under 2000, the group scroll bar has 
a 
> thick border around it.  On the field, it doesn't.  Is there a way to 
turn 
> off the border on the group's scrollbar?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Peter T. Evensen
> http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
> 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Fri Nov 11 03:14:53 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 09:14:53 +0100
Subject: [OT] Sony music installs secret malware gateway
In-Reply-To: <43744FC7.4080504@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <OFF2EB640B.36ACCA95-ONC12570B6.002C5D2E-C12570B6.002D4DAF@deutsche-boerse.com>

it's true about the auto-launch not helping when the cd contains malware 
(of which MS is not 
responsible - not that i commend MS on anything) but in my long long mac 
os experience,
the number of users that read manuals, eulas etc is rather dismal!!! It's 
usually install first
fix later... 

Too bad Steve didn't teach his users to read the readmes and more... 

I remember when they delivered PowerMacs 8500s and the like, the Mac boxes 
said "by
opening this seal you agree to the user license agreement". Where was the 
agreement?
In the box!!! Oops, i guess Steve can't read either!

It would be nice if religious animosities were replaced with real 
professional comments instead
of Mac this, pc that (not the first time i tell you it's not very 
professional looking for enterprise users
to read)... Instead we could work on pushing up standards in Rev's HTML 
handling and to make 
those transitions more transparent between platforms, web, rev etc...

just my 2 cents on this OT unrelated slab at pc users which is absolutely 
unrelated to rev anything.

But then again, you do enjoy it when you insert a new CD and you're 
prompted with an installation
dialog instead of having to go find the installer in the CD manually arent 
you? 

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 11/11/2005 09:01:11:

> xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:
> > No Richard, it's not just for PCs... 
> > 
> > http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/05/11/11/064215.shtml?tid=233&tid=3
> 
> The difference at play is critical:
> 
> On a Mac the user has to at least do something explcit, while on Windows 

> unless you've specifically reconfigured your system you have no choice 
> --  simply inserting the CD triggers the auto-run which in turn triggers 

> the installation of the malware gateway.
> 
> Welcome to the joys of auto-run.
> 
> Too bad Bill doesn't simply teach his users how to open a CD instead.
> 
> 
> >><http://www.mercurynews.
> 
com/mld/mercurynews/business/technology/personal_technology/13134753.htm>
> > 
> >>
> >>More at slashdot:
> >><http://slashdot.org/~xtracto/journal/121088>
> 
> 
> -- 
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Media Corporation
>   ___________________________________________________________
>   Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
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states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
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END OF DISCLAIMER


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Nov 11 03:44:19 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 00:44:19 -0800
Subject: [OT] Sony music installs secret malware gateway
In-Reply-To: <OFF2EB640B.36ACCA95-ONC12570B6.002C5D2E-C12570B6.002D4DAF@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OFF2EB640B.36ACCA95-ONC12570B6.002C5D2E-C12570B6.002D4DAF@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <437459E3.3030006@fourthworld.com>

xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:
> It would be nice if religious animosities were replaced with real 
> professional comments instead of Mac this, pc that

This isn't a religious issue. Humans are humans, and they don't read 
manuals on either platform.

The critical element at play here is that -- before Sony's abuse of the 
public trust -- users had no reason to expect that merely inserting a 
MUSIC CD would install software.


> just my 2 cents on this OT unrelated slab at pc users which is absolutely 
> unrelated to rev anything.

PC users are not responsible for the corporate decisions of Sony and 
Microsoft.

The thread is marked as [OT]; the best way to kill an OT thread is to 
not perpetuate it.  I don't think you want to initiate a relevance contest.

A user here requested info on auto-run just last week, and the week 
before we had a rather lengthy discussion of the implications of 
auto-run for developers of portable apps.

If the facts are inconvenient for Sony and Microsoft, don't shoot the 
messenger, take it up with Sony and Microsoft.


> But then again, you do enjoy it when you insert a new CD and you're 
> prompted with an installation dialog instead of having to go find
> the installer in the CD manually arent you? 

Do I value sleeping well at the cost of a double-click?  Sure.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From david at openpartnership.net  Fri Nov 11 06:28:48 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:28:48 +0100
Subject: Safe (icon) image IDs
In-Reply-To: <20051111032252.CF7038251F8@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051111032252.CF7038251F8@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <1BDC82AD-00D3-40E0-B67E-8121199BDE22@openpartnership.net>

Can't download - can you give me the url of the download page?

Thanx


On 11 Nov 2005, at 05:00, MisterX wrote:

> http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=82



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Fri Nov 11 06:34:39 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:34:39 +0100
Subject: Safe (icon) image IDs
In-Reply-To: <1BDC82AD-00D3-40E0-B67E-8121199BDE22@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <OF1919D707.8BD25570-ONC12570B6.003F3C71-C12570B6.003F97D2@deutsche-boerse.com>

Downloads perfectly  - it was tested this morning.

Tested again, still works. try "save link as..."

even go url "
http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=82" 
works!

Btw, for resizing the stack you need GIM to be loaded (also in the TAOO 
downloads).
Again, this is not the finished version... 
some things may not look ok unless you use TAOO... I'll work on making 
that smarter sooner or later.

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 11/11/2005 12:28:48:

> Can't download - can you give me the url of the download page?
> 
> Thanx
> 
> 
> On 11 Nov 2005, at 05:00, MisterX wrote:
> 
> > http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=82
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
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recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
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END OF DISCLAIMER


From david at openpartnership.net  Fri Nov 11 06:57:20 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:57:20 +0100
Subject: Safe (icon) image IDs
In-Reply-To: <OF1919D707.8BD25570-ONC12570B6.003F3C71-C12570B6.003F97D2@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OF1919D707.8BD25570-ONC12570B6.003F3C71-C12570B6.003F97D2@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <45BC9C5E-D228-407C-9E52-E08C0F87FF4A@openpartnership.net>

go url "http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php? 
name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=82"

Returns "no such card"

I cannot save link as from my email client as far as I can tell - and  
wget does not seem to be installed on my laptop here - leaving me the  
option of writing a local html file with the link and then using the  
browser to "save link as..." - or is there an easier way???

On 11 Nov 2005, at 12:34, xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:

> Downloads perfectly  - it was tested this morning.
>
> Tested again, still works. try "save link as..."
>
> even go url "
> http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=82"
> works!


From david at openpartnership.net  Fri Nov 11 07:10:35 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 13:10:35 +0100
Subject: kwote
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511101917o9ab4ec9n70a70de61065f982@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BF990457.24AF5%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<4373C81F.60400@fourthworld.com>
	<FC37B89F-1CDB-4B53-97F4-3FB0CD35D53C@canelasoftware.com>
	<9184ecebbab2ff7886c3caa5e6d707e6@together.net>
	<75BBF947-53C5-4EFE-8AE6-3EAEB4132C66@openpartnership.net>
	<f99b52860511101917o9ab4ec9n70a70de61065f982@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B619E7DF-A107-4649-A85A-6C2CE6D48B50@openpartnership.net>

Thanks for the improvements Sarah!


On 11 Nov 2005, at 04:17, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> Yes, it works for me (Mac OS X 10.4.3) but I prefer to let Rev do the
> work of finding the correct path for AppleScript. Also I have never
> used the merge function and can't really see why it is needed. Here is
> my version, which includes an error check at the end:
>
> on folder_Open someFolder
>     put revMacFromUnixPath(someFolder) into someFolder
>     put "tell application" && kwote("Finder") into someAppleScript
>     put return & "activate" after someAppleScript
>     put return & "open folder" && kwote(someFolder) after  
> someAppleScript
>     put return & "end tell" after someAppleScript
>     do someAppleScript as AppleScript
>     if the result is not empty then answer error "Can't open folder "
> & someFolder & cr & the result
> end folder_Open

I use "merge" quite a lot actually :) Find it more intuitive than  
"format" which I am sure is faster!

Actually, ( this is Dans fault :) - I am curious - do you use "kwote 
()" as well - or are you just being nice to me :)  If so can you  
remember where you got it from - AFIK it came from someone really  
cool in an Apple Developer documentation thingy for HyperCard back  
about 100 years ago - in the same article there was stuff about  
virtual custom properties and dictionaries - all of which are now  
native to Rev (thanks again Scott).

Am interested as it is one of the first functions I started to use as  
a library. I am in the process of removing small functions like this  
to make handlers a little more standalone - for instance at a quick  
check "kwote" is referenced by 452 other handlers in my library:

function kwote string
     return quote & string & quote
end kwote

So two questions:

     1) How would you do this in a single line within a handler using  
"format"?

     2) Has anyone some code to safely and automatically update all  
of my 452 referenced handlers :)




From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Nov 11 07:23:56 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:23:56 +0000
Subject: kwote
In-Reply-To: <B619E7DF-A107-4649-A85A-6C2CE6D48B50@openpartnership.net>
References: <BF990457.24AF5%scott@tactilemedia.com>	<4373C81F.60400@fourthworld.com>	<FC37B89F-1CDB-4B53-97F4-3FB0CD35D53C@canelasoftware.com>	<9184ecebbab2ff7886c3caa5e6d707e6@together.net>	<75BBF947-53C5-4EFE-8AE6-3EAEB4132C66@openpartnership.net>	<f99b52860511101917o9ab4ec9n70a70de61065f982@mail.gmail.com>
	<B619E7DF-A107-4649-A85A-6C2CE6D48B50@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <43748D5C.6080906@tweedly.net>

David Bovill wrote:

> I use "merge" quite a lot actually :) Find it more intuitive than  
> "format" which I am sure is faster!
>
I had never noticed merge before - thanks !
(Though on first glance it looks totally non-intuitive to me :-) ]

> function kwote string
>     return quote & string & quote
> end kwote
>
> So two questions:
>
>     1) How would you do this in a single line within a handler using  
> "format"?
>
What I'd do is probably
   put quote & "%s" & quote  into gWote    -- somewhere like an 
openstack handler
and then use it as
  put format(gWote, "asdf") into tVar

Notes:
1. gWote is of course a global
2. It helps to pronounce this in a Scottish Gaelic accent, where a "g" 
sound is half between English "g" and "k"  :-)


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/166 - Release Date: 10/11/2005



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Fri Nov 11 07:39:00 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 13:39:00 +0100
Subject: Safe (icon) image IDs
In-Reply-To: <45BC9C5E-D228-407C-9E52-E08C0F87FF4A@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <OF5B0A7C8E.F153A062-ONC12570B6.00456768-C12570B6.00457C07@deutsche-boerse.com>

David

Something else must be wrong.

I tested this on 3 different PCs. Works perfectly...

I'll send you the file later when i get home...

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 11/11/2005 12:57:20:

> go url "http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php? 
> name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=82"
> 
> Returns "no such card"
> 
> I cannot save link as from my email client as far as I can tell - and 
> wget does not seem to be installed on my laptop here - leaving me the 
> option of writing a local html file with the link and then using the 
> browser to "save link as..." - or is there an easier way???
> 
> On 11 Nov 2005, at 12:34, xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:
> 
> > Downloads perfectly  - it was tested this morning.
> >
> > Tested again, still works. try "save link as..."
> >
> > even go url "
> > http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=82"
> > works!
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Fri Nov 11 07:52:52 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 13:52:52 +0100
Subject: Imitated multi-thread
In-Reply-To: <BF9917C8.4C1B%hershrev@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <OF974F1557.BAD791EE-ONC12570B6.00296BBC-C12570B6.0046C0F8@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hershel

Depends on what you mean by threading. I think multi-symmetrical 
processing since rev can't do threads.

This implies a shared storage accessible to each processing node (or 
application) and a standard
for sharing, commiting ops and retrieving the final result from the nodes 
by a node manager.

Shared storage can be a file (any format i guess), sql db or sent via IP 
sockets. 

You need a master node sending out requests to the processing nodes and to 
collect results and
eventually schedule the jobs. 

It's definitely not as hard as it seems but it's a thorny subject in 
programming.

Cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 10/11/2005 21:29:12:

> On 11/9/05 10:37 PM, "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Hershel
> > 
> > Yes it's possible. You can do so via sockets or files or
> > sql to communicate among the different parts of your applications.
> Thanks, could you give me a bit of understanding?
> Hershel.
> > 
> > Note that each method has it's advantages and inconveniences.
> > 
> > cheers
> > Xavier
> > http://monsieurx.com/taoo
> > 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> >> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
> >> Hershel Fisch
> >> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 00:47
> >> To: How to use Revolution
> >> Subject: Imitated multi-thread
> >> 
> >> Hello, is there a possibility to imitate a multi-thread by
> >> using a few separate stand alones ? If yes how, if not what yes?
> >> Thanks, Hershel
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-revolution mailing list
> >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
> >> your subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription
> > preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From wow at together.net  Fri Nov 11 08:12:22 2005
From: wow at together.net (Richard Miller)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 08:12:22 -0500
Subject: Selecting a Wireless Connection
In-Reply-To: <001f01c5e666$563d5580$0300a8c0@olie>
References: <BF990457.24AF5%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<4373C81F.60400@fourthworld.com>
	<FC37B89F-1CDB-4B53-97F4-3FB0CD35D53C@canelasoftware.com>
	<9184ecebbab2ff7886c3caa5e6d707e6@together.net>
	<001f01c5e666$563d5580$0300a8c0@olie>
Message-ID: <35308ee19c421b66239ef51334fd7afd@together.net>

Michael,
Thanks for the suggestion.
Found a great airport applescript to do the job (XNetwork 1.3).
Richard


On Nov 10, 2005, at 9:19 PM, Michael D. wrote:

> Richard
> Are the wireless access point private or public ?
> I have multiple sites with wireless and use a unique additional DNS 
> entry
> (base convert the ip)per site to identify each location, I key off the
> gateway address change. When the system see's this gateway change the 
> system
> will look for the unique DNS identifier then place that ID in its
> environment for the app to key off so it knows where its location is.
> Michael
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Miller" <wow at together.net>
> To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 5:18 PM
> Subject: Selecting a Wireless Connection
>
>
>> I've got an application that does not give users access to the 
>> standard
>> OSX interface (it's a touch screen driven application). The 
>> application
>> requires a wireless connection to operate. The computer running this
>> application is portable, and there's no telling exactly which wireless
>> connection may be available at any given location.
>>
>> Is there a way to get access to the available wireless connections 
>> from
>> within Rev?
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Richard Miller
>> Imprinter Technologies
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From esmale at welshpiper.com  Fri Nov 11 08:43:48 2005
From: esmale at welshpiper.com (Erin D. Smale)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 08:43:48 -0500
Subject: Need help with Revolution!
In-Reply-To: <A7D33CB5-586D-4F6D-8C5B-280413E07B38@danshafer.com>
References: <20051016170005.042BE82521F@mail.runrev.com>	<6A789006-3E9A-11DA-9815-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>	<9d8792720510161639q14a6c7f7wc784131bf9a8906a@mail.gmail.com>	<3553E5E6-B540-45FF-8A2E-78B096A385F0@danshafer.com>	<9d8792720511101518v5ccf2b0bk96d074aeff30fea0@mail.gmail.com>
	<A7D33CB5-586D-4F6D-8C5B-280413E07B38@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <4374A014.2030501@welshpiper.com>

Dan,

Just a quick question: do the two subsequent ebooks available on your 
site contain the material proposed for Volumes 2 and 3?

Cheers,

-Erin

Dan Shafer wrote:

> Thanks, Kevin. It's always nice to hear kind words from happy readers!
>
> Dan
>
> On Nov 10, 2005, at 3:18 PM, K J wrote:
>
>> Just wanted to say thanks Dan for creating your e-book on  
>> Revolution. I just
>> started reading it and I have to say so far I have learned alot  from 
>> it. I
>> recomend this book to any newbie Revolution users out there.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Kevin
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>

-- 
-- Erin

Check out The Chimera RPG:
http://www.welshpiper.com



From Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk  Fri Nov 11 10:17:01 2005
From: Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk (Kresten Bjerg)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:17:01 +0100
Subject: windowprint from oversize cards !?
Message-ID: <s374c40c.002@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>

I have been working sucessfully with a stack 3x3 screens wide. Have also organized users option for printing selected windows on the card, using a .70 printScale and printrotated.  It has been a lot of experimentation to reach working  coordinates for the windows, --but the 3 rightmost windows seems impossible to print in this way. (although they are nicely included when I print the whole card  at more reduced scale). Have I hit some undescribed bug ? - or can anyone point to another way of solving the problem.
I quoute the present handler:

on printwindow
  global phenowindow
  set the cursor to watch
  set the printmargins to 20,20,5,5
  set the printScale to .70
  set the printRotated to true
  if phenowindow is mainwindow then
    Print this Card from 1,20 to 1020,763
  end if
  if phenowindow is oikoswindow then
    Print this card from 730,0 to 2046,732
  end if
  if phenowindow is bodywindow then
    Print this card from 0,550 to 1009,1560
  end if
  if phenowindow is glyphwindow then
    print this card from 720,550 to 2060 ,1560
  end if
  if phenowindow is familywindow then
    print this card from 0,1100 to 1009,2320
  end if
  if phenowindow is environswindow then
    print this card from 750,1115 to 2040,2320
  end if
-----------------   it is only the following, which dont work:

  if phenowindow is gardenwindow then
    Print this card from 1756,30 to 2200,632
  end if
  if phenowindow is homewindow then
    print this card from 1756,550 to 2200,1560
  end if
  if phenowindow is workplacewindow then
    print this card from 1756,1115 to 2200,2320
  end if
end printwindow






From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Nov 11 11:34:32 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 08:34:32 -0800
Subject: Safe (icon) image IDs
In-Reply-To: <BF996267.2F8C5%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <6964BA92-41F1-4250-A4CA-9E9A91F1684E@openpartnership.net>
	<BF996267.2F8C5%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.10.1.20051111082955.019e4008@pon.net>

Hi Ken,

>On 11/10/05 6:47 PM, "David Bovill" <david at openpartnership.net> wrote:
>
> > If I am creating a library of icons-is there a way of ensuring that
> > the ids are unique - keep getting "icon clashes"....
>
>Well, we're keeping an informal ID registry (including the IDs used by
>RunRev) at the revInterop site:
>
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/revInterop
>
>Click on "Database", then on "ImageIDs".
>
>If you'd like to register for a range of ID numbers, let me know and I'll
>add it to the list.


Does your list include icon ranges previously registered with Scott 
Raney for MetaCard?

As of May 14, 2003, Scott reserved 103000-103999 for Serendipity Software Co.

Rob Cozens, CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"Prolonging the hour of astonishment..."

Voice: USA (707) 882-2186



From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Nov 11 12:12:23 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 09:12:23 -0800
Subject: Safe (icon) image IDs
Message-ID: <7.0.0.10.1.20051111090838.019d6838@pon.net>

Hi David,

>On 11/10/05 6:47 PM, "David Bovill" <david at openpartnership.net> wrote:
>
> > If I am creating a library of icons-is there a way of ensuring that
> > the ids are unique - keep getting "icon clashes"....
>
>Well, we're keeping an informal ID registry (including the IDs used by
>RunRev) at the revInterop site:
>
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/revInterop
>
>Click on "Database", then on "ImageIDs".
>
>If you'd like to register for a range of ID numbers, let me know and I'll
>add it to the list.


Ken's response and mine assume your conflict is with other developers' ids.

If you are assigning image ids that are less than six digits, you may 
be seeing a conflict with the ids of other controls in your own stack(s).

Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
  Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

  from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) 



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Nov 11 12:54:18 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 09:54:18 -0800
Subject: Safe (icon) image IDs
In-Reply-To: <OF1919D707.8BD25570-ONC12570B6.003F3C71-C12570B6.003F97D2@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OF1919D707.8BD25570-ONC12570B6.003F3C71-C12570B6.003F97D2@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <665684443.20051111095418@ahsoftware.net>

xavier-

Friday, November 11, 2005, 3:34:39 AM, you wrote:

>Downloads perfectly  - it was tested this morning.

http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=82"

"The html tags you attempted to use are not allowed"

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Nov 11 12:52:18 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 11:52:18 -0600
Subject: Safe (icon) image IDs
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.10.1.20051111082955.019e4008@pon.net>
Message-ID: <BF9A3672.2F956%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/11/05 10:34 AM, "Rob Cozens" <rcozens at pon.net> wrote:

> Does your list include icon ranges previously registered with Scott
> Raney for MetaCard?

No, not AFAIK, unless there is overlaps with what RunRev uses.
 
> As of May 14, 2003, Scott reserved 103000-103999 for Serendipity Software Co.

Cool... I'll add that to the DB.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Nov 11 12:53:47 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 09:53:47 -0800
Subject: Need help with Revolution!
In-Reply-To: <4374A014.2030501@welshpiper.com>
References: <20051016170005.042BE82521F@mail.runrev.com>	<6A789006-3E9A-11DA-9815-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>	<9d8792720510161639q14a6c7f7wc784131bf9a8906a@mail.gmail.com>	<3553E5E6-B540-45FF-8A2E-78B096A385F0@danshafer.com>	<9d8792720511101518v5ccf2b0bk96d074aeff30fea0@mail.gmail.com>
	<A7D33CB5-586D-4F6D-8C5B-280413E07B38@danshafer.com>
	<4374A014.2030501@welshpiper.com>
Message-ID: <909B553B-F660-4CFA-A766-E536F7B96BE0@danshafer.com>

Erin....

Not quite.

After Volume 1 was published, RunRev and I decided, for a number of  
reasons, not to continue with the plan to publish Volumes 2 and 3 as  
such. Instead, we're releasing larger-than-chapter-sized eBooks  
covering specific topics in somewhat greater detail than the book had  
intended and accompanying these with demonstration stacks and other  
supplemental material. The first two are on CGI and custom  
properties. The third, on printing, is in final production at the  
moment and as soon as I work out one or two glitches will be  
released, certainly next week.

Thereafter, I'll be releasing new SmartEBooks (auto-updating, multi- 
file eBooks+) on additional topics over the next few months.


On Nov 11, 2005, at 5:43 AM, Erin D. Smale wrote:

> Just a quick question: do the two subsequent ebooks available on  
> your site contain the material proposed for Volumes 2 and 3?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Nov 11 14:26:32 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 20:26:32 +0100
Subject: Safe (icon) image IDs
In-Reply-To: <665684443.20051111095418@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <20051111184852.2A73F825262@mail.runrev.com>

Mark 

http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=82

that's strange. It works in explorer, firefox in xp, w2k, w2k3...

works in rev 2.6.1 over those systems too with the go url (which I
was surprised!)...

Works from home over adsl, works from work with 4Gbit lines. 

And this way we hope rev competes with ajax... ;)

try it on a pc. try it with 

load url "http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=82"
save it as "xosmedialib.rev"

no matter how I try it doesn't fail here.

Are you using safari? have any other browser available? 

are your ".rev" mimes set?

PHPNuke downloads have worked for thousands of url hits except for
a few rev mac users... Strange coincidence...

Worse, the tikiwiki wont let me upload the file, wont accept a url for file
and I can't hack it out of the sql without doing php - which is not making 
it's adoption friendly at all... 

Look, wait for taoo to be announced one day and it will download
correctly for once without screwy browsers!

That stack is not taoo-free after all. some
dependencies will create reverror displays... the library scripts
for id resolution where the point of the matter.

This really bytes it. After a great programming week, bugs squashed by
the dozen, im out of wind... 

sorry, I need a rest... been up since 3:30 AM... bug after bug day... 

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Mark Wieder
> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 18:54
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Safe (icon) image IDs
> 
> xavier-
> 
> Friday, November 11, 2005, 3:34:39 AM, you wrote:
> 
> >Downloads perfectly  - it was tested this morning.
> 
> http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=82"
> 
> "The html tags you attempted to use are not allowed"
> 
> --
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From HyperChris at aol.com  Fri Nov 11 14:25:22 2005
From: HyperChris at aol.com (HyperChris at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:25:22 EST
Subject: kwote
Message-ID: <1f2.16b12549.30a64a22@aol.com>

benching ...

>>global gWote
>>put quote & "%s" & quote into gWote -- outside loop
>>get format(gWote, "asdf")

vs
>>get kwote("asdf")
>>function kwote string
>>?? return quote & string & quote
>>end kwote

vs
>> get quote & "asdf" & quote

ticks after 100,000 iterations were 22, 39 and 5!

PS My apoligies to Mr. Gaskin for doing bechmarks. :)


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Fri Nov 11 14:43:47 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:43:47 -0500
Subject: Safe (icon) image IDs
In-Reply-To: <20051111184852.2A73F825262@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051111184852.2A73F825262@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <07853239-8A8F-4413-92AA-BD54D54D974C@conncoll.edu>

'Pears to work in Safari. (Loads into a browser window, but savable  
from there.

Charles Hartman

On Nov 11, 2005, at 2:26 PM, MisterX wrote:

> http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=82



From katir at hindu.org  Fri Nov 11 14:57:20 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 09:57:20 -1000
Subject: Word 1 to -1 Truncating Entire Paragraphs?
Message-ID: <285DA80D-750F-4DC0-9277-C7FE452A4EA0@hindu.org>

I am using a routine discuss on this list sometime back to kill  
vertical white space (extra cr's)  at the beginning and end of a  
large text chunk..

put word 1 to -1 of fld "transcript" into tFinalTranscript

But this is suddenly chopping off whole paragraphs and chars at the  
end of the file.
e.g. the following which represents the end of a file.

Le petite insect ki tappe dans la nuit. C'est une "cricket" en  
Creole.  La langue creole est tres jolie. So vocabulaire est tres  
pauvre, donc, il faut decrire toute les choses avec beaucoup des les  
petites mots tres jolie. Est Creole a le meme syntax que Anglais, pas  
comme le haute francaise de Paris!

plus de text ici

plus de text ici

ends up like this in the final output


<p>Le petite insect ki tappe dans la nuit. C'est une "cricket" en  
Creole.  La langue creole est tres jolie. So vocabulaire est tres  
pauvre,</p>

# the rest is missing.


I have test this by simply commenting out this line:

    -- put word 1 to -1 of fld "transcript" into tFinalTranscript
         put fld "transcript" into tFinalTranscript

and the entire transcript is delivered to the variable.. it's that "  
word 1 to -1" which is chopping of entire blocks of text...

This seems like a bug to me... or am I missing something?

Sivakatirswami








From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Nov 11 15:03:50 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:03:50 -0800
Subject: Word 1 to -1 Truncating Entire Paragraphs?
In-Reply-To: <285DA80D-750F-4DC0-9277-C7FE452A4EA0@hindu.org>
References: <285DA80D-750F-4DC0-9277-C7FE452A4EA0@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <4A0F17C9-DE62-4381-BA64-F21E039CC0FE@danshafer.com>

There may be a clue in the fact that it chops at the first comma.  
Perhaps that's set as a delimiter somewhere?

Dan

On Nov 11, 2005, at 11:57 AM, Sivakatirswami wrote:

> I am using a routine discuss on this list sometime back to kill  
> vertical white space (extra cr's)  at the beginning and end of a  
> large text chunk..
>
> put word 1 to -1 of fld "transcript" into tFinalTranscript
>
> But this is suddenly chopping off whole paragraphs and chars at the  
> end of the file.
> e.g. the following which represents the end of a file.
>
> Le petite insect ki tappe dans la nuit. C'est une "cricket" en  
> Creole.  La langue creole est tres jolie. So vocabulaire est tres  
> pauvre, donc, il faut decrire toute les choses avec beaucoup des  
> les petites mots tres jolie. Est Creole a le meme syntax que  
> Anglais, pas comme le haute francaise de Paris!
>
> plus de text ici
>
> plus de text ici
>
> ends up like this in the final output
>
>
> <p>Le petite insect ki tappe dans la nuit. C'est une "cricket" en  
> Creole.  La langue creole est tres jolie. So vocabulaire est tres  
> pauvre,</p>
>
> # the rest is missing.
>
>
> I have test this by simply commenting out this line:
>
>    -- put word 1 to -1 of fld "transcript" into tFinalTranscript
>         put fld "transcript" into tFinalTranscript
>
> and the entire transcript is delivered to the variable.. it's that  
> " word 1 to -1" which is chopping of entire blocks of text...
>
> This seems like a bug to me... or am I missing something?
>
> Sivakatirswami
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Fri Nov 11 15:17:45 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:17:45 -0800
Subject: Safe (icon) image IDs
In-Reply-To: <20051111184852.2A73F825262@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BF9A3C69.24BF3%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently,MisterX wrote:

> http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=82
> 
> that's strange. It works in explorer, firefox in xp, w2k, w2k3...
> 
> works in rev 2.6.1 over those systems too with the go url (which I
> was surprised!)...
> 
> Works from home over adsl, works from work with 4Gbit lines.
> 
> And this way we hope rev competes with ajax... ;)
> 
> try it on a pc. try it with
> 
> load url "http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=82"
> save it as "xosmedialib.rev"
> 
> no matter how I try it doesn't fail here.

Fails here too...

But this reminds me of a "Stupid Web Trick"? that I use in situations where
I want to grab something from the Web, but for whatever reason the link is
inaccessible from my browser (or Rev in this case).

STEP 1 - open your favorite text editor
STEP 2 - type the following into a new document:

<html>
<body>
<a href="http://www.server.com/link_to_file_I_want.xyz">link</a>
</body>
</html>

STEP 3 - save the document to your desktop as "link.html" or similar
STEP 4 - open the link document in your Web browser
STEP 5 - control/option click the link to auto-download to your computer

You can sometimes can save a page of Rev code from a Web browser but the
above works for pretty much any type of file.

BTW, Xavier, your stack seems to have a problem with a findtabstops
handler...

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Nov 11 16:05:39 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 15:05:39 -0600
Subject: Word 1 to -1 Truncating Entire Paragraphs?
In-Reply-To: <285DA80D-750F-4DC0-9277-C7FE452A4EA0@hindu.org>
References: <285DA80D-750F-4DC0-9277-C7FE452A4EA0@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <437507A3.6040105@hyperactivesw.com>

Sivakatirswami wrote:
> I am using a routine discuss on this list sometime back to kill  
> vertical white space (extra cr's)  at the beginning and end of a  large 
> text chunk..
> 
> put word 1 to -1 of fld "transcript" into tFinalTranscript
> 
> But this is suddenly chopping off whole paragraphs and chars at the  end 
> of the file.
> e.g. the following which represents the end of a file.
> 
> Le petite insect ki tappe dans la nuit. C'est une "cricket" en  Creole.  
> La langue creole est tres jolie. So vocabulaire est tres  pauvre, donc, 
> il faut decrire toute les choses avec beaucoup des les  petites mots 
> tres jolie. Est Creole a le meme syntax que Anglais, pas  comme le haute 
> francaise de Paris!
> 
> plus de text ici
> 
> plus de text ici
> 
> ends up like this in the final output
> 
> 
> <p>Le petite insect ki tappe dans la nuit. C'est une "cricket" en  
> Creole.  La langue creole est tres jolie. So vocabulaire est tres  
> pauvre,</p>
> 
> # the rest is missing.
> 
> 
> I have test this by simply commenting out this line:
> 
>    -- put word 1 to -1 of fld "transcript" into tFinalTranscript
>         put fld "transcript" into tFinalTranscript
> 
> and the entire transcript is delivered to the variable.. it's that "  
> word 1 to -1" which is chopping of entire blocks of text...
> 
> This seems like a bug to me... or am I missing something?

I copied your text and tried it in a field, and it works fine here. But 
it may not be a fair test, as your result text shows HTML tags and the 
original does not; we should test with the original, actual text. Also, 
are you using unicode? That may not evaluate spaces the same way as 
non-unicode text.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Nov 11 16:12:59 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 15:12:59 -0600
Subject: [OT] Sony music installs secret malware gateway
In-Reply-To: <OFF2EB640B.36ACCA95-ONC12570B6.002C5D2E-C12570B6.002D4DAF@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OFF2EB640B.36ACCA95-ONC12570B6.002C5D2E-C12570B6.002D4DAF@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <4375095B.8060800@chipp.com>



xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:

> It would be nice if religious animosities were replaced with real 
> professional comments instead
> of Mac this, pc that (not the first time i tell you it's not very 
> professional looking for enterprise users
> to read)... Instead we could work on pushing up standards in Rev's HTML 
> handling and to make 
> those transitions more transparent between platforms, web, rev etc...


Hear, hear! But, you're for surely targeting the wrong guy in this one, X.

Richard's an equal opportunity criticizer of OS's! :-) You should know 
this as he's been equally dismayed by stupid things done by both Apple 
and MS, and to my knowledge, pretty much always on target.

At least that's how I've always read him.

-Chipp



From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Fri Nov 11 17:22:53 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:22:53 -0600
Subject: [OT] Sony music installs secret malware gateway
In-Reply-To: <437446F8.1010004@fourthworld.com>
References: <437446F8.1010004@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051111162114.23c81bd8@exchange.slg.com>

Just a clarification: from everything I read, you have to accept the Sony 
EULA on Windows before it will install the rootkit, so it isn't automatic 
on Windows.  The installer automatically runs, but nothing is automatically 
installed unless you click ok.  So the problem isn't the autorun, per se.

But the EULA doesn't disclose that modifications to your OS will be made...


At 01:23 AM 11/11/2005, you wrote:
>We were recently discussing the pros and cons of Windows auto-run files 
>for CDs.  It turns out that the biggest threat isn't some 14-year-old with 
>a grudge -- it's one of the world's largest corporations:
>
>
>
>Posted on Thu, Nov. 10, 2005
>Viruses exploit Sony CD copy-protection scheme
>
>SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) - A controversial copy-protection program that 
>automatically installs when some Sony BMG audio CDs are played on personal 
>computers is now being exploited by malicious software that takes 
>advantage of the antipiracy technology's ability to hide files.
>
>The Trojan horse programs -- three have so far been identified by 
>antivirus companies -- are named so as to trigger the cloaking feature of 
>Sony's XCP2 antipiracy technology. By piggybacking on that function, the 
>malicious programs can enter undetected, security experts said Thursday.
>
>``This could be the advanced guard,'' said Graham Cluley, senior 
>technology consultant at the security firm Sophos. ``We wouldn't be 
>surprised at all if we saw more malware that exploits what Sony has 
>introduced.''
>
>The copy protection program is included on about 20 popular music titles, 
>including releases by Van Zant and The Bad Plus, and disclosure of its 
>existence has raised the ire of many in the computing community, who 
>consider it to constitute spyware.
>
>Sony BMG Music Entertainment and the company that developed the software, 
>First 4 Internet, have claimed that the technology poses no security 
>threat. Still, Sony posted a patch last week that uncloaks files hidden by 
>the software.
>
>On Thursday, Sony released a statement ``deeply regretting any disruption 
>that this may have caused.'' It also said it was working with Symantec and 
>other firms to ensure any content-protection technology ``continues to be 
>safe.''
>
>Neither Sony spokesman John McKay nor First 4 Internet CEO Mathew 
>Gilliat-Smith returned messages seeking additional comment.
>
>Windows expert Mark Russinovich discovered the hidden copy-protection 
>technology on Oct. 31 and posted his findings on his Web log. He noted 
>that the license agreement that pops up said a small program would be 
>installed, but it did not specify it would be hidden.
>
>Manual attempts to remove the software can disable the PC's CD drive. Sony 
>offers an uninstallation program, but consumers must request it by filling 
>out two forms on the Internet.
>
>``What they did was not intentionally malicious,'' Cluley said. ``If 
>anything, it was slightly inept.''
>
>The copy-protection software, which Sony says is a necessary ``speed 
>bump'' to limit how many times a CD is copied, only works on Windows-based 
>PCs. Users of Macintosh and Linux computers are not restricted.
>
>The viruses also only target Windows-based machines.
>
>The infection opens up a backdoor, which could be used to steal personal 
>information, launch attacks on other computers and send spam, antivirus 
>companies said.
>...
><http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/technology/personal_technology/13134753.htm>
>
>
>More at slashdot:
><http://slashdot.org/~xtracto/journal/121088>
>
>
>--
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Nov 11 17:29:42 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 20:29:42 -0200
Subject: [OT] Sony music installs secret malware gateway
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051111162114.23c81bd8@exchange.slg.com>
References: <437446F8.1010004@fourthworld.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20051111162114.23c81bd8@exchange.slg.com>
Message-ID: <14A51F14-98E7-46E8-AE04-75A3A65189F8@mac.com>


On Nov 11, 2005, at 8:22 PM, Peter T. Evensen wrote:

> Just a clarification: from everything I read, you have to accept  
> the Sony EULA on Windows before it will install the rootkit, so it  
> isn't automatic on Windows.  The installer automatically runs, but  
> nothing is automatically installed unless you click ok.  So the  
> problem isn't the autorun, per se.
>
> But the EULA doesn't disclose that modifications to your OS will be  
> made...

It installs a friggin RootKit on the system!!!!!! And thats not all,  
the RootKit makes all files prefixed with $sys$ invisible to the  
average user, and that is already being exploited by Virus writers on  
the wild!!!!

Also sony has some CDs installing MACINTOSH DRM MODULES, yes, people  
don't know yet if it is a rootkit like above, but it installs two  
kernel extensions on OS X... Why the hell, CD-ROMs need to install  
Kernel level extensions... beware of sony. I'll neve accept a Sony  
EULA until further notice...

andre

From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 17:29:50 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 08:29:50 +1000
Subject: kwote
In-Reply-To: <B619E7DF-A107-4649-A85A-6C2CE6D48B50@openpartnership.net>
References: <BF990457.24AF5%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<4373C81F.60400@fourthworld.com>
	<FC37B89F-1CDB-4B53-97F4-3FB0CD35D53C@canelasoftware.com>
	<9184ecebbab2ff7886c3caa5e6d707e6@together.net>
	<75BBF947-53C5-4EFE-8AE6-3EAEB4132C66@openpartnership.net>
	<f99b52860511101917o9ab4ec9n70a70de61065f982@mail.gmail.com>
	<B619E7DF-A107-4649-A85A-6C2CE6D48B50@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511111429tdb9ea8aq55c55bedfc4c5bf4@mail.gmail.com>

> Actually, ( this is Dans fault :) - I am curious - do you use "kwote
> ()" as well - or are you just being nice to me :)  If so can you
> remember where you got it from

I sometimes use an equivalent function which I just call q() to make
for even less typing :-)
However unless I am constructing a complex string, I tend to just
embed the quotes as I go.
With AppleScripts, I always test them in the AppleScript editor first.
Then copy them into Rev. If they are long, I put them in a field or
custom property and just use them from there. If they are short, I use
Rev's Script editor's "Paste as formatted string" menu item to insert
the script with all it's quotes.

> Am interested as it is one of the first functions I started to use as
> a library. I am in the process of removing small functions like this
> to make handlers a little more standalone - for instance at a quick
> check "kwote" is referenced by 452 other handlers in my library:
>
> function kwote string
>      return quote & string & quote
> end kwote
>
> So two questions:
>
>      1) How would you do this in a single line within a handler using
> "format"?

As shown in Chris's benchmarks, the quickest alternative is not to
call any other function but to put the quotes in directly.
>
>      2) Has anyone some code to safely and automatically update all
> of my 452 referenced handlers :)

Unless speed is an issue, I wouldn't worry about it.

Cheers,
Sarah


From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Fri Nov 11 17:38:10 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:38:10 -0600
Subject: [OT] Sony music installs secret malware gateway
In-Reply-To: <14A51F14-98E7-46E8-AE04-75A3A65189F8@mac.com>
References: <437446F8.1010004@fourthworld.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20051111162114.23c81bd8@exchange.slg.com>
	<14A51F14-98E7-46E8-AE04-75A3A65189F8@mac.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051111163715.23c81110@exchange.slg.com>

I know it installs a RootKit, but you have to accept the EULA before it 
will.    That is my understanding.

In any case, I will be boycotting Sony in all forms in the future.

At 04:29 PM 11/11/2005, you wrote:

>On Nov 11, 2005, at 8:22 PM, Peter T. Evensen wrote:
>
>>Just a clarification: from everything I read, you have to accept
>>the Sony EULA on Windows before it will install the rootkit, so it
>>isn't automatic on Windows.  The installer automatically runs, but
>>nothing is automatically installed unless you click ok.  So the
>>problem isn't the autorun, per se.
>>
>>But the EULA doesn't disclose that modifications to your OS will be
>>made...
>
>It installs a friggin RootKit on the system!!!!!! And thats not all,
>the RootKit makes all files prefixed with $sys$ invisible to the
>average user, and that is already being exploited by Virus writers on
>the wild!!!!
>
>Also sony has some CDs installing MACINTOSH DRM MODULES, yes, people
>don't know yet if it is a rootkit like above, but it installs two
>kernel extensions on OS X... Why the hell, CD-ROMs need to install
>Kernel level extensions... beware of sony. I'll neve accept a Sony
>EULA until further notice...
>
>andre
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Nov 11 17:51:37 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 20:51:37 -0200
Subject: [OT] Sony music installs secret malware gateway
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051111163715.23c81110@exchange.slg.com>
References: <437446F8.1010004@fourthworld.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20051111162114.23c81bd8@exchange.slg.com>
	<14A51F14-98E7-46E8-AE04-75A3A65189F8@mac.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20051111163715.23c81110@exchange.slg.com>
Message-ID: <FB3CB6DB-161F-46FC-AD23-50B36A0877EA@mac.com>


On Nov 11, 2005, at 8:38 PM, Peter T. Evensen wrote:

> I know it installs a RootKit, but you have to accept the EULA  
> before it will.    That is my understanding.

yes, that is right. :-)




From dleyanna at rtl.org  Fri Nov 11 17:53:51 2005
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 17:53:51 -0500
Subject: [OT] Sony music installs secret malware gateway
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051111163715.23c81110@exchange.slg.com>
References: <437446F8.1010004@fourthworld.com>	<6.2.1.2.2.20051111162114.23c81bd8@exchange.slg.com>	<14A51F14-98E7-46E8-AE04-75A3A65189F8@mac.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20051111163715.23c81110@exchange.slg.com>
Message-ID: <437520FF.8020400@rtl.org>

This EULA is not like most others. It does not say that it installs a 
rootkit. One can only assume that it is installing legal software to 
protect it's digital rights. This is semi-reasonable. One would NEVER 
expect that it would do what it is doing! There are laws against this 
kind of action! This is simply a trust issue. Not only am I going to 
avoid Sony in the future, but because of the complete disregard for 
privacy issues and inept programming and the lame excuse of "we didn't 
mean to do any harm" while installing a faulty rootkit, I will do my 
best to NEVER buy any kind of Sony product in the future. Trust?, it is 
completely destroyed! There is and never has been or every will be any 
reason for a corporation to install a rootkit.  The US government is 
even having a hard time trying to make a case for one for it's own uses.

Dave


Peter T. Evensen wrote:

> I know it installs a RootKit, but you have to accept the EULA before 
> it will.    That is my understanding.
>
> In any case, I will be boycotting Sony in all forms in the future.
>
> At 04:29 PM 11/11/2005, you wrote:
>
>> On Nov 11, 2005, at 8:22 PM, Peter T. Evensen wrote:
>>
>>> Just a clarification: from everything I read, you have to accept
>>> the Sony EULA on Windows before it will install the rootkit, so it
>>> isn't automatic on Windows.  The installer automatically runs, but
>>> nothing is automatically installed unless you click ok.  So the
>>> problem isn't the autorun, per se.
>>>
>>> But the EULA doesn't disclose that modifications to your OS will be
>>> made...
>>
>>
>> It installs a friggin RootKit on the system!!!!!! And thats not all,
>> the RootKit makes all files prefixed with $sys$ invisible to the
>> average user, and that is already being exploited by Virus writers on
>> the wild!!!!
>>
>> Also sony has some CDs installing MACINTOSH DRM MODULES, yes, people
>> don't know yet if it is a rootkit like above, but it installs two
>> kernel extensions on OS X... Why the hell, CD-ROMs need to install
>> Kernel level extensions... beware of sony. I'll neve accept a Sony
>> EULA until further notice...
>>
>> andre
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
> Peter T. Evensen
> http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
> 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>


-- 
Dave LeYanna
Director IS
Right to Life of Michigan
www.rtl.org



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Nov 11 18:21:53 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 17:21:53 -0600
Subject: Word 1 to -1 Truncating Entire Paragraphs?
In-Reply-To: <285DA80D-750F-4DC0-9277-C7FE452A4EA0@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <BF9A83B1.2F999%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/11/05 1:57 PM, "Sivakatirswami" <katir at hindu.org> wrote:

> I have test this by simply commenting out this line:
> 
>     -- put word 1 to -1 of fld "transcript" into tFinalTranscript
>          put fld "transcript" into tFinalTranscript
> 
> and the entire transcript is delivered to the variable.. it's that "
> word 1 to -1" which is chopping of entire blocks of text...
> 
> This seems like a bug to me... or am I missing something?

Well, one thing I discovered is that the "word 1 to -1" doesn't work well
when you have unbalanced double quotation marks, because of the unique way
that Rev sees "words" when you have double quotes, and is worse if you don't
use parentheses. For example:

  put the number of words of (quote & "This is a test" & quote)
  --> 1
  put the number of words of quote & "This is a test" & quote
  --> 1This is a test"

Now take away the trailing quote an you get this:

  put the number of words of (quote & "This is a test")
  --> 1
  put the number of words of quote & "This is a test"
  --> 1This is a test"

Now the above makes it really obvious of what's going on. But suppose you
didn't know the above... look at this, with spaces added before the trailing
quote:

  put word 1 to -1 of (quote & "This is a test     " & quote)
  --> "This is a test     "
  put word 1 to -1 of quote & "This is a test    " & quote
  --> "This is a test     "

Looks like the same thing, right? But now remove the trailing quote, and you
get this (I put in the "^" to show you the end of the string):

  put word 1 to -1 of (quote & "This is a test     ")
  --> "This is a test^
  put word 1 to -1 of quote & "This is a test    "
  --> "This is a test     ^

So, although it is a bit ugly and only twice as slow*, I still prefer using
this:

 function trim what
  if the platform is "MacOS" then put numToChar(202) into tHardSpc
  else put numToChar(160) into tHardSpc
  put (space & tab & cr & linefeed & tHardSpc) into tWhiteSpc
  repeat
    if char 1 of what is not in tWhiteSpc then exit repeat
    else delete char 1 of what
  end repeat
  repeat
    if char -1 of what is not in tWhiteSpc then exit repeat
    else delete char -1 of what
  end repeat
  return what
end trim

* word 1 to -1: 0.0002 ticks/run; repeat: 0.0004 ticks/run
  (According to 10000 iterations of each in RevBench)

Just my 2 cents,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From katir at hindu.org  Fri Nov 11 19:21:30 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:21:30 -1000
Subject: Word 1 to -1 Truncating Entire Paragraphs?
In-Reply-To: <BF9A83B1.2F999%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF9A83B1.2F999%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <A5550EC0-A2D3-4FEC-8E75-3433972834DE@hindu.org>

There are  commas in the text that is chopped off, so it's not a  
delimiter issue. I don't have time to debug it and on the WHEW  
(WHatEverWorks) principle I'll just use this function which *does*  
work on the same text chunk. I don't think the extra CPU time is an  
issue. (except to nano bots)

Thanks Ken!

Sivakatirswami



On Nov 11, 2005, at 1:21 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

>  function trim what
>   if the platform is "MacOS" then put numToChar(202) into tHardSpc
>   else put numToChar(160) into tHardSpc
>   put (space & tab & cr & linefeed & tHardSpc) into tWhiteSpc
>   repeat
>     if char 1 of what is not in tWhiteSpc then exit repeat
>     else delete char 1 of what
>   end repeat
>   repeat
>     if char -1 of what is not in tWhiteSpc then exit repeat
>     else delete char -1 of what
>   end repeat
>   return what
> end trim



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Nov 11 20:54:44 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 17:54:44 -0800
Subject: frappr map
Message-ID: <13534510012.20051111175444@ahsoftware.net>

All-

I just created a frappr map so we can see where we are.

http://www.frappr.com/runtimerevolution

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Fri Nov 11 21:02:00 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 12:02:00 +1000
Subject: frappr map
In-Reply-To: <13534510012.20051111175444@ahsoftware.net>
References: <13534510012.20051111175444@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511111802y21771cb6xaeef03b74cac5994@mail.gmail.com>

> I just created a frappr map so we can see where we are.
>
> http://www.frappr.com/runtimerevolution
>
> --
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>

That's neat Mark. I'm in but it doesn't allow very precise placement
of my flag. Perhaps it is better in the US where you can enter a zip
code.

Cheers,
Sarah


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Nov 11 21:18:28 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 03:18:28 +0100
Subject: Safe (icon) image IDs
In-Reply-To: <BF9A3C69.24BF3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <20051112014044.420498251FD@mail.runrev.com>

Scott,

Thanks. If you trick works then the issue is indeed a mime
handling problem - "rev/text" should "rev/bin"... Or something
like that if guess correctly. 

is this a good explanation? See about the mimes mid-msg...
http://www.madboa.com/geek/pine-macosx/

Indeed it is missing FindTabStops() - and a few more handlers
which are integrated into taoo now. I'll wrap a new version
tomorrow morning and furnish an html download page to make
it easier. Now I know what the problem is with the links
I furnish. :)

Thanks for the pointer. I'll update that Saturday morning with
a nice story on the wiki ;)

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Scott Rossi
> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 21:18
> To: x at monsieurx.com, How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Safe (icon) image IDs
> 
> Recently,MisterX wrote:
> 
> > http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=82
> > 
> > that's strange. It works in explorer, firefox in xp, w2k, w2k3...
> > 
> > works in rev 2.6.1 over those systems too with the go url 
> (which I was 
> > surprised!)...
> > 
> > Works from home over adsl, works from work with 4Gbit lines.
> > 
> > And this way we hope rev competes with ajax... ;)
> > 
> > try it on a pc. try it with
> > 
> > load url 
> "http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=82"
> > save it as "xosmedialib.rev"
> > 
> > no matter how I try it doesn't fail here.
> 
> Fails here too...
> 
> But this reminds me of a "Stupid Web Trick"? that I use in 
> situations where I want to grab something from the Web, but 
> for whatever reason the link is inaccessible from my browser 
> (or Rev in this case).
> 
> STEP 1 - open your favorite text editor
> STEP 2 - type the following into a new document:
> 
> <html>
> <body>
> <a href="http://www.server.com/link_to_file_I_want.xyz">link</a>
> </body>
> </html>
> 
> STEP 3 - save the document to your desktop as "link.html" or 
> similar STEP 4 - open the link document in your Web browser 
> STEP 5 - control/option click the link to auto-download to 
> your computer
> 
> You can sometimes can save a page of Rev code from a Web 
> browser but the above works for pretty much any type of file.
> 
> BTW, Xavier, your stack seems to have a problem with a 
> findtabstops handler...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Nov 11 21:40:32 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 18:40:32 -0800
Subject: [OT] Sony music installs secret malware gateway
In-Reply-To: <14A51F14-98E7-46E8-AE04-75A3A65189F8@mac.com>
References: <437446F8.1010004@fourthworld.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20051111162114.23c81bd8@exchange.slg.com>
	<14A51F14-98E7-46E8-AE04-75A3A65189F8@mac.com>
Message-ID: <17637258474.20051111184032@ahsoftware.net>

Andre-

Friday, November 11, 2005, 2:29:42 PM, you wrote:

> It installs a friggin RootKit on the system!!!!!! And thats not all,
> the RootKit makes all files prefixed with $sys$ invisible to the  
> average user, and that is already being exploited by Virus writers on
> the wild!!!!

This just in...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4427606.stm

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Nov 11 21:42:29 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 03:42:29 +0100
Subject: [OT] Sony music installs secret malware gateway
In-Reply-To: <4375095B.8060800@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <20051112020449.6DE5582523C@mail.runrev.com>

 
Well, PC comments coming out of the blue like that...
I wasn't too sure. Richard has said he depends on PC
users and was trying to answer issues about autorun
on PCs opened by a user previously (which I missed!)

While we laugh at these companies doing these big
time errors, those working with PCs are not entirely
enchanted with rather cynical PC-only jabs happening
in the list... Im working this Sunday to patch our
servers for yet another round of moft hotfixes. I'd
rather script in rev. But one pays the other doesnt ;) 

what can I say... I know PCs and Macs share an equal
number of idiosyncracies. I know humor when I see it.

His post was not funny at all - just a casual drop 
of a PC problem in a new thread. I tried to defend
both platforms being hit he didn't see the humor!

The autorun problem happens every year... Search
autorun at http://theregister.co.uk - you'll see.

If only Richard defended other users of rev in
face of bug idiosyncracies that affect PC or NTAdmins
some more than others (his clients or mac users), and would 
reply to emails sent to him to explain why a bug is 
not so casual I might be less critical of his criticism...

No offenses meant.

cheers
Xavier



 On Behalf Of Chipp Walters
> xavier wrote:
> 
> > It would be nice if religious animosities were replaced with real 
> > professional comments instead of Mac this, pc that (not the 
> first time 
> > i tell you it's not very professional looking for 
> enterprise users to 
> > read)... Instead we could work on pushing up standards in 
> Rev's HTML 
> > handling and to make those transitions more transparent between 
> > platforms, web, rev etc...
> 
> 
> Hear, hear! But, you're for surely targeting the wrong guy in 
> this one, X.
> 
> Richard's an equal opportunity criticizer of OS's! :-) You 
> should know 
> this as he's been equally dismayed by stupid things done by 
> both Apple 
> and MS, and to my knowledge, pretty much always on target.
> 
> At least that's how I've always read him.
> 
> -Chipp
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Nov 11 21:46:15 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 03:46:15 +0100
Subject: Safe (icon) image IDs
In-Reply-To: <BF9A3C69.24BF3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <20051112020829.B23B082523C@mail.runrev.com>

 

  
> On Behalf Of Scott Rossi


> BTW, Xavier, your stack seems to have a problem with a 
> findtabstops handler...
> 

Scott, the handler is commented out in the stack script.

But there's a couple more that are not in there, notably 
one im going to demo very very soon ;) 

cheers
Xavier




From marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu  Fri Nov 11 21:49:14 2005
From: marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu (Marty Billingsley)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 20:49:14 -0600 (CST)
Subject: frappr map
In-Reply-To: <20051112014047.3071582520E@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051112014047.3071582520E@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0511112046070.13036@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>

Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> writes:
>
> I just created a frappr map so we can see where we are.
>
> http://www.frappr.com/runtimerevolution

Oddly enough, this is the second time in 24 hours frappr has come to
my attention and I've been invited to add myself -- I had never heard
of frappr before this.  Is it new?  (I notice it's in beta.)
It does seem rather US-centric, doesn't it?

  - marty

--
Marty Billingsley (marty at ucls.uchicago.edu)
The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools


From europe at ehug.info  Fri Nov 11 21:56:52 2005
From: europe at ehug.info (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 03:56:52 +0100
Subject: QT anomaly
In-Reply-To: <43742A62.5050400@fourthworld.com>
References: <4373BEE4.2@fourthworld.com> <p06200700bf99d60f38cb@[10.0.0.4]>
	<43742A62.5050400@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <437559F4.5090000@ehug.info>

Richard,

It is a long shot, but since you're stuck, I assume any 
suggestion might help...

After installing Tiger, I copied some movie files onto my Mac 
running MacOS X, over the network, from my MacOS 9 machine. It 
appeared that Tiger set the file type to BUZY, wich indicates a 
system file. I mounted the hard disk of the OSX machine on my 
OS9 Mac and changed the filetype into the correct code (must 
have been "MPG "). After that, I could open the movie files in QT.

Is it possible that the file type changed (apparently not into 
BUZY because QT can still open it) and that Rev doesn't open the 
movie files because it doesn't recognize them?

Best,

Mark


Richard Gaskin wrote:
> sims wrote:
> 
>> At 1:43 PM -0800 11/10/05, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>    system=10.4.3
>>
>>
>>
>> Looks like he's recently updated to 10.4.3, might some
>> weirdo permissions thing be involved? Maybe he might try
>> repair permissions?
> 
> 
> Interesting notion. Could permissions affect a file such that it can 
> play well in one app but not another?
> 

-- 

eHUG coordinator
mailto:europe at ehug.info
http://www.ehug.info
http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch
http://www.economy-x-talk.com

Please inform me about vacancies in the field of
general economics at your institute. I am also looking
for new freelance programming projects.



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Nov 11 22:01:49 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 04:01:49 +0100
Subject: frappr map
In-Reply-To: <13534510012.20051111175444@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <20051112022404.6D1058252C0@mail.runrev.com>

 
Cool!!!!

What do you know, rev users using Ajax ;)

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Mark Wieder
> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 02:55
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: frappr map
> 
> All-
> 
> I just created a frappr map so we can see where we are.
> 
> http://www.frappr.com/runtimerevolution
> 
> --
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Nov 11 22:10:30 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 19:10:30 -0800
Subject: frappr map
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511111802y21771cb6xaeef03b74cac5994@mail.gmail.com>
References: <13534510012.20051111175444@ahsoftware.net>
	<f99b52860511111802y21771cb6xaeef03b74cac5994@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6539056129.20051111191030@ahsoftware.net>

Sarah-

Friday, November 11, 2005, 6:02:00 PM, you wrote:

> That's neat Mark. I'm in but it doesn't allow very precise placement
> of my flag. Perhaps it is better in the US where you can enter a zip
> code.

I'm actually not quite sure of the UI. I fiddled with the map,
centered it on my house and told it to just go ahead a do it.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Nov 11 22:33:20 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 04:33:20 +0100
Subject: ANN: XOSMediaLib under construction
Message-ID: <20051112025539.E58F282529E@mail.runrev.com>

RevGang

Here's a "webPage" where you can safely download the fixed and standalone
version
of xosmedialib. 

<http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloaddetails&li
d=82>

It should be standalone. SOME features are still under construction mind
you.

It still requires GIM to be resized (open GIM, activate it, open xosmedialib
and
all should work). 

<http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloaddetails&li
d=79>
(web page too)
But the rest should be, eh, appetizing...

(BTW, there's more under http://monsieurx.com -> downloads -> TAOO ->
Runrev...

Here's what you can do with XOSMediaLib:
- display and group all your images into one stack so you can reuse them
across all your stacks without id conflict nightmares.
- Import 1 or more images via menu, button click, or drag and drop
- View images in another stack (hopefully edit them - not supported yet)
- Images are organized in a nice grid that is almost smart (there's a bug in
the grid drawing for the last row of images though)
- Then you can clone, cut, copy, [paste may not work], flip, rotate images
with a single mouse button
- You can sort the image list by IDs, names, size (note the columns sort is
reversed if you click twice - and the tabs can be resized easily (this is my
latest taoo addition - thanks Chipp for the idea - note this is a display
bug demo for the tabstops bug I still have to bugzilla which you will see if
the tabstops are too close to each other - not my doing).
- You can export one or more images (multiple selections is in works - not
yet supported)
- Click on an image and you can change it's id, name. ID is checked for
duplicates!!!
- Imported images (not pasted) are set to an id in your range (see options)
that will not conflict with other images. Images also get custom props with
their date and path of importation. 
- you can add descriptions and categories to images (in construction) - note
the collapsible groups for those do not work 100% ok). 

More editing features to come like blend levels etc...

Things that don?t work:
- The 3rd tab! Assign images or patterns to any stack (in testing)
- The 4th tab! browse images (under construction)
- Some menus (still in testing).

Hope you like it! Sorry for the rough corners which are constantly being
improved as I get time to test or use them. This is not a professional tool
(yet) but a work in progress that does the image management in TAOO. What
you see done for images in this stack, is equally detailed in TAOO for text,
links, bookmarks, keywords, categories, object/records, rev objects, and
other objects... 

Im not sure the stack will interest many until the external media editing
works like it does for the internal images of xosmedialib. The browsing
should work though (there's a stack menu in the middle on top of the grid)
to 
choose the stack (not retested lately). 

Not that I care to release bugs. But the image ID duplicates are a constant
problem for many. Maybe this can help you guys... For others, it is a rich
demo of many many features coming in from TAOO... 

Sorry if the gui is complicated, ugly or not Mac happy. I hope you'll let me
know what doesn't fit or should be changed, im all ears.

For the history of it, the stack is under constant change since december
2004 (when I posted the image id conflict bugzilla) since I didn't see a
real image id solution coming any time soon, I took things to the next level
- automated management - but first I needed a gui to manage images - so
there it is. 

Those interested in a 2000 icon library for external media testing, please
just request it...

I think that wraps it up! Since TAOO is built to be a collaborative
distributed system, your critiques, fixes, help is really welcome! Did I
forget to say anything? Yes, I have not tested this on a mac yet... visuals
may not be tuned for macs or linux... if you see anything that ticks your
eyes, send me a small screenshot offlist please... 

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo - the RAD RAD



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Fri Nov 11 23:48:03 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 23:48:03 -0500
Subject: scroll-to-letter in sorted list
Message-ID: <7D3252C8-057F-4699-8215-8D2E85A4B475@conncoll.edu>

I'm sorry, I can't remember who posted the nifty partial solution to  
incremental searching in a sorted list in a field: scroll to the  
first item that begins with whatever letter the user presses. I've  
made a microscopic improvement to take care of the case in which no  
item begins with the letter pressed:


on keyUp theKey
     if theKey is "a" then
         set the scroll of me to 0
         exit keyUp
     end if
     put lineOffset(CR & theKey, me) into lo
     repeat while lo is 0
         put numToChar(charToNum(theKey) - 1) into theKey
         put lineOffset(CR & theKey, me) into lo
     end repeat
     set the scroll of me to lo * the effective textHeight of me
end keyUp


Charles



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Nov 12 00:10:34 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 06:10:34 +0100
Subject: scroll-to-letter in sorted list
In-Reply-To: <7D3252C8-057F-4699-8215-8D2E85A4B475@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <20051112043247.DE447825297@mail.runrev.com>

Charles

> I'm sorry, I can't remember who posted the nifty partial 
> solution to incremental searching in a sorted list in a 
> field: scroll to the first item that begins with whatever 
> letter the user presses. I've made a microscopic improvement 
> to take care of the case in which no item begins with the 
> letter pressed:


there is one in the xosmedialib - just added this week! :) 
wasn't working and here's the fix!

that's a nice script ;)

local kTyped, lastkeyin

on keyup k
  -- 3 seconds too much?
  if lastkeyin = empty or the seconds - lastKeyin > 3 then
    put k into kTyped
  else
    put k after kTyped
  end if
  put the seconds into lastkeyin
  put the sorteditem of me into thisitem
  if thisitem = 0 then put 2 into thisitem  -- default on names
  
  if thisitem = 1 then
    get lineoffset(kTyped,me)
  else
    get lineoffset(tab & kTyped,me)
  end if
  if it = 0 then
    get 1 -- or get selection before or of item chartonum(k)-1
  end if
  set the hilitedline of me to it
  --mouseup
end keyup

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Charles Hartman
> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 05:48
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: scroll-to-letter in sorted list
> 
> I'm sorry, I can't remember who posted the nifty partial 
> solution to incremental searching in a sorted list in a 
> field: scroll to the first item that begins with whatever 
> letter the user presses. I've made a microscopic improvement 
> to take care of the case in which no item begins with the 
> letter pressed:
> 
> 
> on keyUp theKey
>      if theKey is "a" then
>          set the scroll of me to 0
>          exit keyUp
>      end if
>      put lineOffset(CR & theKey, me) into lo
>      repeat while lo is 0
>          put numToChar(charToNum(theKey) - 1) into theKey
>          put lineOffset(CR & theKey, me) into lo
>      end repeat
>      set the scroll of me to lo * the effective textHeight of 
> me end keyUp
> 
> 
> Charles
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Nov 12 02:03:07 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 01:03:07 -0600
Subject: frappr map
In-Reply-To: <13534510012.20051111175444@ahsoftware.net>
References: <13534510012.20051111175444@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <437593AB.8070608@hyperactivesw.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:
> All-
> 
> I just created a frappr map so we can see where we are.
> 
> http://www.frappr.com/runtimerevolution
> 

Interesting. The U.S. and UK have detailed roads and boundaries, and the 
whole rest of the world is stark white. I never knew that. I should 
travel more.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From psahores at easynet.fr  Sat Nov 12 02:06:59 2005
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 08:06:59 +0100
Subject: frappr map
In-Reply-To: <20051112022404.6D1058252C0@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051112022404.6D1058252C0@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <7F09F8D5-40FF-4FB4-A65F-AC91CCC2A69E@easynet.fr>

Waaooooow !!!

...

About AJAX, just a work in progress using "ka-map", "mapscript",  
"mapserver" (to get from <www.maptools.org> and <http:// 
www.kyngchaos.com/macosx/downloads.php>, a runtime revolution glue  
application's server (not online at this time), a MySQL backend,...

Best to All,

Le 12 nov. 05 ? 04:01, MisterX a ?crit :

>
> Cool!!!!
>
> What do you know, rev users using Ajax ;)
>
> cheers
> Xavier
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>> Mark Wieder
>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 02:55
>> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Subject: frappr map
>>
>> All-
>>
>> I just created a frappr map so we can see where we are.
>>
>> http://www.frappr.com/runtimerevolution
>>
>> --
>> -Mark Wieder
>>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
>> your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr
sc+ at +sahores-conseil.com

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

<http://www.sahores-conseil.com/>

WEB/VoD/ACID-DB services over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"




From psahores at easynet.fr  Sat Nov 12 02:14:20 2005
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 08:14:20 +0100
Subject: Fwd: frappr map
References: <7F09F8D5-40FF-4FB4-A65F-AC91CCC2A69E@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <462A8D5F-8CBC-46A7-B95F-FAD7B4DDDE0F@easynet.fr>

>
> Waaooooow !!!
>
> ...
>
> About AJAX, just a work in progress using "ka-map", "mapscript",  
> "mapserver" (to get from <www.maptools.org> and <http:// 
> www.kyngchaos.com/macosx/downloads.php>, a runtime revolution glue  
> application's server (not online at this time), a MySQL backend,...

... all my apologies ; the missing link, there <http:// 
istream.homeunix.com/kamap/index.html>
>
> Best to All,
>
> Le 12 nov. 05 ? 04:01, MisterX a ?crit :
>
>>
>> Cool!!!!
>>
>> What do you know, rev users using Ajax ;)
>>
>> cheers
>> Xavier
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Mark Wieder
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 02:55
>>> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Subject: frappr map
>>>
>>> All-
>>>
>>> I just created a frappr map so we can see where we are.
>>>
>>> http://www.frappr.com/runtimerevolution
>>>
>>> --
>>> -Mark Wieder
>>>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
>>> your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr
sc+ at +sahores-conseil.com

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

<http://www.sahores-conseil.com/>

WEB/VoD/ACID-DB services over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"





From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 03:02:03 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 18:02:03 +1000
Subject: frappr map
In-Reply-To: <437593AB.8070608@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <13534510012.20051111175444@ahsoftware.net>
	<437593AB.8070608@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511120002v626c88fbubb9c6b1583f24259@mail.gmail.com>

> > I just created a frappr map so we can see where we are.
> >
> > http://www.frappr.com/runtimerevolution
> >
>
> Interesting. The U.S. and UK have detailed roads and boundaries, and the
> whole rest of the world is stark white. I never knew that. I should
> travel more.
>

I assure you, when I look out my window, it isn't just blank white :-)

Actually, there is no map detail but the satellite coverage seems to
be more extensive. Certainly I was able to pick out my house, but for
Frappr I had to enter my city. I wasn't able to choose a specific
location.

Sarah


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Nov 12 03:08:15 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 02:08:15 -0600
Subject: frappr map
In-Reply-To: <13534510012.20051111175444@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <BF9AFF0F.2F9F0%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/11/05 7:54 PM, "Mark Wieder" <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:

> All-
> 
> I just created a frappr map so we can see where we are.
> 
> http://www.frappr.com/runtimerevolution

That's cool, Mark! I just added myself...

Hey Jerry! Your picture is broken... perhaps upload another?

:-)


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Sat Nov 12 04:26:08 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 10:26:08 +0100
Subject: frappr map
In-Reply-To: <13534510012.20051111175444@ahsoftware.net>
References: <13534510012.20051111175444@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <4AF2B10B-698F-412A-A9E5-082619E5F2C5@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Mark,

Very cool :-)
I just added myself.
Nice to put a face on so many people with who we have exchanges on  
this list.
And to have a right idea of our time differences...
Thanks.

Le 12 nov. 05 ? 02:54, Mark Wieder a ?crit :

> All-
>
> I just created a frappr map so we can see where we are.
>
> http://www.frappr.com/runtimerevolution
>
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net


Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Nov 12 05:29:07 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 11:29:07 +0100
Subject: Blendlevels in 2.6.1
Message-ID: <20051112095119.3DDC88252E3@mail.runrev.com>


greetings Revlings

I have to admit that setting the blend of any object is great.

But how can you set the "blendlevel" of any object?

If the blend is too dark or light (on dark or light backgrounds
respectively),
how can you change the contrast? 

I have a blended menu - blended over a dark image pattern background. The 
button needs to be opaque or you don?t see it hiliting.

The text in the button is obviously clear/white so it contrasts with the
background.

When I hilite the button however, the blend level makes the button text
disappear.
But the background blend is cool. there is the obvious mousedown and change
the
text color and set it back after mouseup/menupick - but that doesn't work if
the
mouse goes up out of the menu rect... Looking for a simpler solution with 
properties if possible...

The button name must be text and not an image (to many images to make for
each
button, each language, etc...)

Second problem, is there any way to just blend the button and not the text?
Just noticed the blended button text is also darker grey... 

I tried every other ink effect but none is as correct as the blend... 

Sounds like a feature to have that would allow a lot of flexibility...

I've seen images doing blends, and this would be a great thing for controls
(and windows)
as well... 

thanks for any feedback

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo 



From contact at setec-multimedia.fr  Sat Nov 12 07:19:27 2005
From: contact at setec-multimedia.fr (Setec Multimedia)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 13:19:27 +0100
Subject: Xlate & libTranslator
Message-ID: <0e9c377d32ef44da3fd8e130b8a6894f@setec-multimedia.fr>

Hello,

I'm looking for the Xlate demo stack wich used to be available from the 
users' spaces. The "Go to" button doesn't activate any download for 
this particular stack.
Is there any URL where i could download it ?
Do you know any other stack wich demonstrates the possible uses of 
libTranslator ?

Thanks for your answers.

Cordialy

Aur?lien



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Nov 12 07:29:27 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 13:29:27 +0100
Subject: XOSMediaLib under construction
In-Reply-To: <20051112025539.E58F282529E@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20051112115137.6F4C182522E@mail.runrev.com>

It's amazing how much you get done when things work as expected!!!

Thanks to Dan, I've squashed a couple dozen bugs since this morning...
Added a few new things too. Made it lots faster! 

I think I got most of the issues out this time...

(warning: web page link, not file url - nothing is compatible anymore ;)

<http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloaddetails&li
d=82>

Version bumped to 2.4.5 (from 2.3 last week)

Lots of new TAOO or improved functions thanks to this:
- smarter group collapsing
- smart field splitters (to change tabstops - inspired by Chipp himself!)
- grid navigation via arrows
- list navigation based on sorted column+keys typed in sequence - thanks
Charles for boosting that script's fix.
- Thanks to Pierre Sahores for some drag and drop insights

Pretty much everything works as far as I could test...
There's one bug I know of... see who finds it! not a show stopper...

This is beta beta, not prerelease beta... I haven't hit an error anywhere.
Note the external image functions I didn't test as rigorously.

That doesn't mean there isn't Mac related visual bugs. Dan sent some
pictures which I couldn't read... Any feedback apreciated from anyone...

Next UP, transcriptolation integration into rev ;) 
HTMLText output from fields really doesn't work when you look at it into a
browser... 

After that I can paste the about field into monsieurX for the new story into
phpnuke or wiki and reduce even more workflow ;) That's the point aint'it?

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of MisterX
> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 04:33
> To: 'How to use Revolution'
> Subject: ANN: XOSMediaLib under construction
> 
> RevGang
> 
> Here's a "webPage" where you can safely download the fixed 
> and standalone
> version
> of xosmedialib. 
> 
> <http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdown
> loaddetails&li
> d=82>
> 
> It should be standalone. SOME features are still under 
> construction mind
> you.
> 
> It still requires GIM to be resized (open GIM, activate it, 
> open xosmedialib
> and
> all should work). 
> 
> <http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdown
> loaddetails&li
> d=79>
> (web page too)
> But the rest should be, eh, appetizing...
> 
> (BTW, there's more under http://monsieurx.com -> downloads -> TAOO ->
> Runrev...
> 
> Here's what you can do with XOSMediaLib:
> - display and group all your images into one stack so you can 
> reuse them
> across all your stacks without id conflict nightmares.
> - Import 1 or more images via menu, button click, or drag and drop
> - View images in another stack (hopefully edit them - not 
> supported yet)
> - Images are organized in a nice grid that is almost smart 
> (there's a bug in
> the grid drawing for the last row of images though)
> - Then you can clone, cut, copy, [paste may not work], flip, 
> rotate images
> with a single mouse button
> - You can sort the image list by IDs, names, size (note the 
> columns sort is
> reversed if you click twice - and the tabs can be resized 
> easily (this is my
> latest taoo addition - thanks Chipp for the idea - note this 
> is a display
> bug demo for the tabstops bug I still have to bugzilla which 
> you will see if
> the tabstops are too close to each other - not my doing).
> - You can export one or more images (multiple selections is 
> in works - not
> yet supported)
> - Click on an image and you can change it's id, name. ID is 
> checked for
> duplicates!!!
> - Imported images (not pasted) are set to an id in your range 
> (see options)
> that will not conflict with other images. Images also get 
> custom props with
> their date and path of importation. 
> - you can add descriptions and categories to images (in 
> construction) - note
> the collapsible groups for those do not work 100% ok). 
> 
> More editing features to come like blend levels etc...
> 
> Things that don?t work:
> - The 3rd tab! Assign images or patterns to any stack (in testing)
> - The 4th tab! browse images (under construction)
> - Some menus (still in testing).
> 
> Hope you like it! Sorry for the rough corners which are 
> constantly being
> improved as I get time to test or use them. This is not a 
> professional tool
> (yet) but a work in progress that does the image management 
> in TAOO. What
> you see done for images in this stack, is equally detailed in 
> TAOO for text,
> links, bookmarks, keywords, categories, object/records, rev 
> objects, and
> other objects... 
> 
> Im not sure the stack will interest many until the external 
> media editing
> works like it does for the internal images of xosmedialib. 
> The browsing
> should work though (there's a stack menu in the middle on top 
> of the grid)
> to 
> choose the stack (not retested lately). 
> 
> Not that I care to release bugs. But the image ID duplicates 
> are a constant
> problem for many. Maybe this can help you guys... For others, 
> it is a rich
> demo of many many features coming in from TAOO... 
> 
> Sorry if the gui is complicated, ugly or not Mac happy. I 
> hope you'll let me
> know what doesn't fit or should be changed, im all ears.
> 
> For the history of it, the stack is under constant change 
> since december
> 2004 (when I posted the image id conflict bugzilla) since I 
> didn't see a
> real image id solution coming any time soon, I took things to 
> the next level
> - automated management - but first I needed a gui to manage 
> images - so
> there it is. 
> 
> Those interested in a 2000 icon library for external media 
> testing, please
> just request it...
> 
> I think that wraps it up! Since TAOO is built to be a collaborative
> distributed system, your critiques, fixes, help is really 
> welcome! Did I
> forget to say anything? Yes, I have not tested this on a mac 
> yet... visuals
> may not be tuned for macs or linux... if you see anything 
> that ticks your
> eyes, send me a small screenshot offlist please... 
> 
> cheers
> Xavier
> http://monsieurx.com/taoo - the RAD RAD
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sat Nov 12 08:39:57 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 08:39:57 -0500
Subject: XOSMediaLib under construction
In-Reply-To: <20051112115137.6F4C182522E@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051112115137.6F4C182522E@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <8BF7C90D-FC1E-4635-8C6D-0D69A5A8767B@conncoll.edu>


On Nov 12, 2005, at 7:29 AM, MisterX wrote:

> - list navigation based on sorted column+keys typed in sequence -  
> thanks
> Charles for boosting that script's fix.


(You'd be welcome, except that I don't think any of the interesting  
bits are mine -- and I can't remember who did the main code! Alex?  
Klaus? Ken? I don't think my memory is what it was but I can't  
remember who to ask . . .)
Charles



From esmale at welshpiper.com  Sat Nov 12 11:01:13 2005
From: esmale at welshpiper.com (Erin D. Smale)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 11:01:13 -0500
Subject: Corrupt .rev file?
Message-ID: <20051112110113.d57zpulhf8dcgkw0@www.welshpiper.com>

Hello all,

I'm experiencing some odd behaviour with my stack. I was working on an
application last night when I tried to select the Standalone Application
Settings. When I clicked on that menu option, nothing happened. After some
checking, I realised that none of the menus in the Revolution main toolbar were
working. Dutifully, I shut everything down and restarted.

When I opened the stack again, I found that not only were the menus not
functioning, but I couldn't use the right-click options on an object, nor would
the commands accessed from the Propery Inspector work. If I select an object on
the stack and use the CTRL+E command, the script editor comes up, but it's
blank.

Oddly, if I run the stack in Dreamcard viewer, it works just fine. If I open
Revolution and work on another stack, everything works as expected.

So it would seem that there's something wrong with just one .rev file, although
I can't figure out what. Is it possible for a .rev file to become corrupted? If
so, what does one do to address it, and what steps can be taken to avoid it?

As a side note, if the file is lost or unusable, it's not earth-shattering. I
can replicate the code easily enough--I really want to avoid laying out the GUI
again, though.

Any advice, tips, suggestions appreciated. Thanks,

-Erin

Check out The Chimera RPG:
http://www.welshpiper.com/


From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Nov 11 14:45:02 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 11:45:02 -0800
Subject: Safe (icon) image IDs
In-Reply-To: <BF9A3672.2F956%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <7.0.0.10.1.20051111082955.019e4008@pon.net>
	<BF9A3672.2F956%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.10.1.20051111114254.00f71248@pon.net>

Ken,

> > Does your list include icon ranges previously registered with Scott
> > Raney for MetaCard?
>
>No, not AFAIK, unless there is overlaps with what RunRev uses.
>

You might want to check, the MetaCard manual instructed developers 
whose icons might be used by others to register with MC.

> > As of May 14, 2003, Scott reserved 103000-103999 for Serendipity 
> Software Co.
>
>Cool... I'll add that to the DB.

Thanks,

Rob 



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Nov 12 11:19:27 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 08:19:27 -0800
Subject: Corrupt .rev file?
In-Reply-To: <20051112110113.d57zpulhf8dcgkw0@www.welshpiper.com>
References: <20051112110113.d57zpulhf8dcgkw0@www.welshpiper.com>
Message-ID: <4376160E.3060201@fourthworld.com>

Erin D. Smale wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I'm experiencing some odd behaviour with my stack. I was working on an
> application last night when I tried to select the Standalone Application
> Settings. When I clicked on that menu option, nothing happened. After some
> checking, I realised that none of the menus in the Revolution main toolbar were
> working. Dutifully, I shut everything down and restarted.
> 
> When I opened the stack again, I found that not only were the menus not
> functioning, but I couldn't use the right-click options on an object, nor would
> the commands accessed from the Propery Inspector work. If I select an object on
> the stack and use the CTRL+E command, the script editor comes up, but it's
> blank.
> 
> Oddly, if I run the stack in Dreamcard viewer, it works just fine. If I open
> Revolution and work on another stack, everything works as expected.
> 
> So it would seem that there's something wrong with just one .rev file, although
> I can't figure out what. Is it possible for a .rev file to become corrupted?


Corruption of a stack file is possible, but extremely rare.  I won't 
even bother getting into the details again -- you can search the 
archives for "corruption". In 8 years with the product I've only even 
hear about two cases of true file corruption.

Slightly more frequent (perhaps as many as a dozen cases over 8 years) 
is the corruption of data in an image object.  In such cases merely 
replacing the image object will bring all behaviors back to normal.

Fortunately it seems neither of these are related to your issue, since 
you note that the same stack file works great in Dreamcard. If the stack 
is fine, the stack is fine.

Your description above says that the stack even worked fine in Rev until 
you selected the "Standalone Application Settings" item.  So it seems 
the stack is fine there too, the problem being something with the 
Standalone Applications Settings stack or mode.

I don't build my standalones in Rev so I can't offer much guidance 
there, but at least I can offer 99.999% assurances that, based on your 
description, your stack file is fine and the only problem is the 
behavior of Rev's Standalone Application Settings.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Nov 12 11:40:22 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 08:40:22 -0800
Subject: Xlate & libTranslator
In-Reply-To: <0e9c377d32ef44da3fd8e130b8a6894f@setec-multimedia.fr>
References: <0e9c377d32ef44da3fd8e130b8a6894f@setec-multimedia.fr>
Message-ID: <1971841467.20051112084022@ahsoftware.net>

Aur?lien-

Saturday, November 12, 2005, 4:19:27 AM, you wrote:

> I'm looking for the Xlate demo stack wich used to be available from the
> users' spaces. The "Go to" button doesn't activate any download for 
> this particular stack.
> Is there any URL where i could download it ?
> Do you know any other stack wich demonstrates the possible uses of 
> libTranslator ?

Thanks for the heads-up on that. I have no idea why that wouldn't
download - some revOnline glitch. I deleted it and uploaded it again,
creating a new entry, and it seems to work now.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Nov 12 11:41:41 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 08:41:41 -0800
Subject: frappr map
In-Reply-To: <20051112022404.6D1058252C0@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051112022404.6D1058252C0@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <1101920161.20051112084141@ahsoftware.net>

x-

Friday, November 11, 2005, 7:01:49 PM, you wrote:

 > Cool!!!!

> What do you know, rev users using Ajax ;)

<g>

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Nov 12 11:43:23 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 08:43:23 -0800
Subject: frappr map
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0511112046070.13036@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
References: <20051112014047.3071582520E@mail.runrev.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0511112046070.13036@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <182021727.20051112084323@ahsoftware.net>

Marty-

Friday, November 11, 2005, 6:49:14 PM, you wrote:

> Oddly enough, this is the second time in 24 hours frappr has come to
> my attention and I've been invited to add myself -- I had never heard
> of frappr before this.  Is it new?  (I notice it's in beta.)
> It does seem rather US-centric, doesn't it?

Yes. I've adjusted the map so that it shows the whole world now. It's
using Google maps, so my guess is that it's a Google spinoff. I've
just become aware of it in the last couple of weeks, so I think it's
*very* new... and *very* beta. But much fun.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Sat Nov 12 12:32:44 2005
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 18:32:44 +0100
Subject: frappr map
In-Reply-To: <182021727.20051112084323@ahsoftware.net>
References: <20051112014047.3071582520E@mail.runrev.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0511112046070.13036@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
	<182021727.20051112084323@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <p06200704bf9bd3d07182@[10.0.0.6]>

At 8:43 AM -0800 11/12/05, Mark Wieder wrote:
>Yes. I've adjusted the map so that it shows the whole world now.

It would let me put up my scary photo but not place me on the map.

Had the name of the city I live in (Valletta, Malta), but when I tried to
'put me on the map' it replaced Valletta with 'undefined' and said get lost.

This frappr is pretty smart! Valletta *is* undefined!   ;-)

However, a defining moment will take place next year when the
European Revolution Conference 2006 takes place here. Had a great
time in 2004 meeting Kevin and people from this list - might be hard 
to beat that
one but I think we will. I know Gaskin will be attending as I owe him dinner
at the Bacchus restaurant in Mdina.

More coming soon...

ciao,
sims


From see3d at writeme.com  Sat Nov 12 14:29:29 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 14:29:29 -0500
Subject: frappr map
In-Reply-To: <p06200704bf9bd3d07182@[10.0.0.6]>
References: <20051112014047.3071582520E@mail.runrev.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0511112046070.13036@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
	<182021727.20051112084323@ahsoftware.net>
	<p06200704bf9bd3d07182@[10.0.0.6]>
Message-ID: <AFEE9180-8401-417B-8BD0-15FC10334BB1@writeme.com>

I was able to place a photo without creating an account.  However, I  
had to place myself on the map and create the account to get my pin  
on the map --then I had to delete the redundant photo.  Might have  
been better if I had read some instructions first!

Dennis

On Nov 12, 2005, at 12:32 PM, sims wrote:

> At 8:43 AM -0800 11/12/05, Mark Wieder wrote:
>> Yes. I've adjusted the map so that it shows the whole world now.
>
> It would let me put up my scary photo but not place me on the map.
>
> Had the name of the city I live in (Valletta, Malta), but when I  
> tried to
> 'put me on the map' it replaced Valletta with 'undefined' and said  
> get lost.
>
> This frappr is pretty smart! Valletta *is* undefined!   ;-)
>
> However, a defining moment will take place next year when the
> European Revolution Conference 2006 takes place here. Had a great
> time in 2004 meeting Kevin and people from this list - might be  
> hard to beat that
> one but I think we will. I know Gaskin will be attending as I owe  
> him dinner
> at the Bacchus restaurant in Mdina.
>
> More coming soon...
>
> ciao,
> sims
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk  Sat Nov 12 14:41:27 2005
From: Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk (Kresten Bjerg)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 20:41:27 +0100
Subject: How can I  print all parts of  oversize cards !?
Message-ID: <s3765385.012@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>



I have been working sucessfully with a stack 3x3 screens wide (3072 x 2304)
. Have also organized users option for printing selected windows on the card,
 using a .70 printScale and printrotated.  It has been a lot of experimentation
 to reach working  coordinates for the windows, --but the 3 rightmost windows 
seem  impossible to print in this way. (although they are nicely included when I print
 the whole card  at more reduced scale). Have I hit some undescribed bug ? -
 or can anyone point to another way of solving the problem.
I quoute the present handler:

on printwindow
  global phenowindow
  set the cursor to watch
  set the printmargins to 20,20,5,5
  set the printScale to .70
  set the printRotated to true
  if phenowindow is mainwindow then
    Print this Card from 1,20 to 1020,763
  end if
  if phenowindow is oikoswindow then
    Print this card from 730,0 to 2046,732
  end if
  if phenowindow is bodywindow then
    Print this card from 0,550 to 1009,1560
  end if
  if phenowindow is glyphwindow then
    print this card from 720,550 to 2060 ,1560
  end if
  if phenowindow is familywindow then
    print this card from 0,1100 to 1009,2320
  end if
  if phenowindow is environswindow then
    print this card from 750,1115 to 2040,2320
  end if
-----------------   it is only the following, which dont work:- all experiments with alternative number
 values give the same result: an empty page coming out from the printer.
I shall mention, that the "window" to be printed is visible on the screen in all of the instances, which 
I know is necessary precondition

  if phenowindow is gardenwindow then
    Print this card from 1756,30 to 2200,632
  end if
  if phenowindow is homewindow then
    print this card from 1756,550 to 2200,1560
  end if
  if phenowindow is workplacewindow then
    print this card from 1756,1115 to 2200,2320
  end if
end printwindow

(Excuse me for re-posting more or less the same mail as  before, but somehow my mailsystem does not
give automatic linewrapping, so the previous version was rather unreadable--continuing in one long line)






From revolution at jaedworks.com  Sat Nov 12 16:26:54 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 13:26:54 -0800
Subject: How can I  print all parts of  oversize cards !?
In-Reply-To: <s3765385.012@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>
References: <s3765385.012@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>
Message-ID: <p06210242bf9c0e19d44f@[66.93.39.98]>

At 8:41 PM +0100 11/12/2005, Kresten Bjerg wrote:
>-----------------   it is only the following, which dont work:- all 
>experiments with alternative number
>  values give the same result: an empty page coming out from the printer.
>I shall mention, that the "window" to be printed is visible on the 
>screen in all of the instances, which
>I know is necessary precondition
>
>   if phenowindow is gardenwindow then
>     Print this card from 1756,30 to 2200,632
>   end if
>   if phenowindow is homewindow then
>     print this card from 1756,550 to 2200,1560
>   end if
>   if phenowindow is workplacewindow then
>     print this card from 1756,1115 to 2200,2320
>   end if
>end printwindow

Have you tried using "into"?

   print this card from 1756,30 to 2200,632 into 100,100,444,602
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From katir at hindu.org  Sat Nov 12 17:34:16 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 12:34:16 -1000
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <B40C5004-3A7A-4EAD-A31E-776DEFBEA5D5@hindu.org>

The CIO of a 2 billion dollar accounting firm that handles movie and  
media events accounting for the likes of Warner Brothers and Disney,  
is on our team... he was just here in my office yesterday, explaining  
to me to be "very cautious" about using of web services. Warner  
Brother's forced them into it and he says the kajillion lines of code  
that have evolved from this decision... just to do the simple of  
things, where all that is really happening is a very little bit of  
data is moving via an XML protocol from one machine to another, is  
costing everybody, big time...he said "don't go there!"

just FYI.


On Nov 09, 2005, at 1:38 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> I almost labeled this post off-topic since our purpose here is to  
> discuss how to use Revolution. But I decided on balance that it  
> affects everyone here, so I left off the [OT].
>
> I've just posted a blog entry at http://www.eclecticity.com/. 
> 3c66aaec that I believe should be of interest to everyone who is in  
> the programming universe today. I've been leaning in this direction  
> for years, drawn strongly to it for the past few months, and have  
> now tipped over the edge. Some will think I'm over the edge,  
> alright, but perhaps not in the way I intended.
>
> My prediction -- based on a lot of evidence and clinched by two  
> leaked Microsoft memos that you really need to read (they're  
> indirectly linked in my blog entry) -- is that the days of the  
> desktop app are indeed finally numbered. At best, we will see  
> desktops reduced to being containers for ultra-thin clients and  
> specialized Internet browsing tools while *everything else* runs as  
> a (probably ad-supported) Web service.
>
> Yeah, I know. You've heard this before. And there's a lot of  
> skepticism here and elsewhere on the Net. But Ray Ozzie's no idiot  
> and Microsoft's not ignorant or stupid (whatever else they may well  
> be).
>
> Comments welcome, though I'd appreciate it if you'd register for my  
> blog (it's free) and post them there even if you choose to echo  
> them here. This issue is much bigger than Rev but it affects  
> everyone on this list, IMNSHO.
>
> -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. 
> -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
> Dan Shafer
> Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
> "Looking at technology from every angle"
> http://www.eclecticity.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk  Sat Nov 12 18:18:04 2005
From: Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk (Kresten Bjerg)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 00:18:04 +0100
Subject: How can I  print all parts of  oversize cards
	!?&In-Reply-To=s3765385.012@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK
Message-ID: <s3768645.026@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>

Thank you for the suggestion, I tried it, but ...same negative result. 
As I get deeper into it, I can see, that there goes an invisible wall at precisely 2200.
 Maybe somebody at some time in the past imagined a 2x3 screen format,
  translating to a an A4 page, and set the limit there.
If so, maybe one could invent a way to get around it. 
If one could  somehow script to flash the screen, like the  macintosh 
command shift 3 /or 4 and select area ....or the grab application, and somehow send it to the printer....???
   But it has to be a cross-platform solution !
 
Kresten
kresten.bjerg at psy.ku.dk     www.psy.ku.dk/bjerg 



From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Nov 12 19:19:48 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 16:19:48 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <B40C5004-3A7A-4EAD-A31E-776DEFBEA5D5@hindu.org>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<B40C5004-3A7A-4EAD-A31E-776DEFBEA5D5@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <F0C3C931-E2EA-4006-A7D8-B0EB2651629C@danshafer.com>

 From which experience i conclude:

(a) AJAX and RIAs are not a panacea
(b) $2 billion acconting firms IT shops probably don't embrace new  
technologies in the first place (having seen *that* up close and  
personal)
(c) Moving information from one Web service to another is often  
difficult because of all the impenetrable crap put in the way for  
"security" in the first place
(d) This technology has a ways to go.


On Nov 12, 2005, at 2:34 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote:

> The CIO of a 2 billion dollar accounting firm that handles movie  
> and media events accounting for the likes of Warner Brothers and  
> Disney, is on our team... he was just here in my office yesterday,  
> explaining to me to be "very cautious" about using of web services.  
> Warner Brother's forced them into it and he says the kajillion  
> lines of code that have evolved from this decision... just to do  
> the simple of things, where all that is really happening is a very  
> little bit of data is moving via an XML protocol from one machine  
> to another, is costing everybody, big time...he said "don't go there!"
>
> just FYI.
>
>
> On Nov 09, 2005, at 1:38 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>> I almost labeled this post off-topic since our purpose here is to  
>> discuss how to use Revolution. But I decided on balance that it  
>> affects everyone here, so I left off the [OT].
>>
>> I've just posted a blog entry at http://www.eclecticity.com/. 
>> 3c66aaec that I believe should be of interest to everyone who is  
>> in the programming universe today. I've been leaning in this  
>> direction for years, drawn strongly to it for the past few months,  
>> and have now tipped over the edge. Some will think I'm over the  
>> edge, alright, but perhaps not in the way I intended.
>>
>> My prediction -- based on a lot of evidence and clinched by two  
>> leaked Microsoft memos that you really need to read (they're  
>> indirectly linked in my blog entry) -- is that the days of the  
>> desktop app are indeed finally numbered. At best, we will see  
>> desktops reduced to being containers for ultra-thin clients and  
>> specialized Internet browsing tools while *everything else* runs  
>> as a (probably ad-supported) Web service.
>>
>> Yeah, I know. You've heard this before. And there's a lot of  
>> skepticism here and elsewhere on the Net. But Ray Ozzie's no idiot  
>> and Microsoft's not ignorant or stupid (whatever else they may  
>> well be).
>>
>> Comments welcome, though I'd appreciate it if you'd register for  
>> my blog (it's free) and post them there even if you choose to echo  
>> them here. This issue is much bigger than Rev but it affects  
>> everyone on this list, IMNSHO.
>>
>> -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- 
>> .-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
>> Dan Shafer
>> Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
>> "Looking at technology from every angle"
>> http://www.eclecticity.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Sat Nov 12 19:54:07 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 00:54:07 +0000
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <F0C3C931-E2EA-4006-A7D8-B0EB2651629C@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<B40C5004-3A7A-4EAD-A31E-776DEFBEA5D5@hindu.org>
	<F0C3C931-E2EA-4006-A7D8-B0EB2651629C@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <0D3A8C3C-F606-4B58-B658-3EB1403D3CB5@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 13 Nov 2005, at 00:19, Dan Shafer wrote:

> From which experience i conclude:
>
> (a) AJAX and RIAs are not a panacea
> (b) $2 billion acconting firms IT shops probably don't embrace new  
> technologies in the first place (having seen *that* up close and  
> personal)
> (c) Moving information from one Web service to another is often  
> difficult because of all the impenetrable crap put in the way for  
> "security" in the first place
> (d) This technology has a ways to go.

I suspect the CIO was talking about "web services" in the narrow  
sense of something like SOAP (no longer word of the month). And if  
that's the case, I can understand his comments. I remember struggling  
to make the SOAP toolkit that was once distributed with Rev, and at  
the time thinking "what's the point?". The aim was basically to get a  
piece of dynamically generated xml from one computer to another - not  
very different from a web form and a cgi script. In this case, I  
think it's not the technology that has a way to go, but the  
definition of a clear purpose, without which committees will   
generate more committees until the camel is built.

>
>
> On Nov 12, 2005, at 2:34 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote:
>
>> The CIO of a 2 billion dollar accounting firm that handles movie  
>> and media events accounting for the likes of Warner Brothers and  
>> Disney, is on our team... he was just here in my office yesterday,  
>> explaining to me to be "very cautious" about using of web  
>> services. Warner Brother's forced them into it and he says the  
>> kajillion lines of code that have evolved from this decision...  
>> just to do the simple of things, where all that is really  
>> happening is a very little bit of data is moving via an XML  
>> protocol from one machine to another, is costing everybody, big  
>> time...he said "don't go there!"
>>
>> just FYI.



From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Sat Nov 12 19:57:49 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 00:57:49 +0000
Subject: frappr map
In-Reply-To: <182021727.20051112084323@ahsoftware.net>
References: <20051112014047.3071582520E@mail.runrev.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0511112046070.13036@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>
	<182021727.20051112084323@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <E483D3C1-C156-477F-BCAC-0E65BBA0B100@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 12 Nov 2005, at 16:43, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Marty-
>
> Friday, November 11, 2005, 6:49:14 PM, you wrote:
>
>> Oddly enough, this is the second time in 24 hours frappr has come to
>> my attention and I've been invited to add myself -- I had never heard
>> of frappr before this.  Is it new?  (I notice it's in beta.)
>> It does seem rather US-centric, doesn't it?
>
> Yes. I've adjusted the map so that it shows the whole world now. It's
> using Google maps, so my guess is that it's a Google spinoff. I've
> just become aware of it in the last couple of weeks, so I think it's
> *very* new... and *very* beta. But much fun.

It certainly is (much fun, that is). I didn't think we were allowed  
new toys this close to Christmas. :-)

Dave



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Sat Nov 12 20:36:16 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 11:36:16 +1000
Subject: How can I print all parts of oversize cards
	!?&In-Reply-To=s3765385.012@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK
In-Reply-To: <s3768645.026@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>
References: <s3768645.026@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511121736s52d0ee71w1f5ab5c3c7f4ec1d@mail.gmail.com>

> Thank you for the suggestion, I tried it, but ...same negative result.
> As I get deeper into it, I can see, that there goes an invisible wall at precisely 2200.
>  Maybe somebody at some time in the past imagined a 2x3 screen format,
>   translating to a an A4 page, and set the limit there.
> If so, maybe one could invent a way to get around it.
> If one could  somehow script to flash the screen, like the  macintosh
> command shift 3 /or 4 and select area ....or the grab application, and somehow send it to the printer....???
>    But it has to be a cross-platform solution !
>

What if you lock the screen, then set the location of the window so
that the part you want to print is on screen? I've no idea whether
that will make any difference, but it is something to try.

Cheers,
Sarah


From katir at hindu.org  Sat Nov 12 20:57:24 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 15:57:24 -1000
Subject: the hilitedbutton props failing
Message-ID: <2FBF7CED-2BE2-47B2-960F-CB2DD28A2414@hindu.org>

I have a group of 4 radio buttons the group is called "fileOptions"

_index.shtml  _index.html  _comments.html  _transcript.html

put the hilitedbuttonname of group "fileOptions"

is failing today.. but it was working yesterday??  Any ideas?

I had an unusual situation where I was forced to quit earlier by an  
infinite loop generate by  the purge stack thing and the stack that  
has this group was in the background when I force quit... I hope  
nothing got corrupted... rebooting Rev did not fix it... does rev  
keep some kind of data on the props for objects hidden somewhere that  
might need to be clean up?

skts









From esmale at welshpiper.com  Sat Nov 12 21:34:45 2005
From: esmale at welshpiper.com (Erin D. Smale)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 21:34:45 -0500
Subject: Corrupt .rev file?
In-Reply-To: <4376160E.3060201@fourthworld.com>
References: <20051112110113.d57zpulhf8dcgkw0@www.welshpiper.com>
	<4376160E.3060201@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <4376A645.8070203@welshpiper.com>

Actually, I never got a chance to build the stack as a standalone. 
Before the
problem, here's what was going on:

1. Added this to the mainStack script:
   on preOpenStack
     -- Grab the commands from the Scores button
     insert the script of button "btnScores" into front
     -- commands from the "btnScores" script
     clearAll (STR)
     clearAll (DEX)
     clearAll (INT)
     clearAll (WIL)
     -- Disable the Reroll button
     set the enabled of button "btnReroll" to false
   end preOpenStack
2. Switched to run mode; all behaved as expected.
3. Selected File -> Standalone Application Settings (nothing happened)

Based on your response, I'm now thinking of a couple possibilities (?). The
first is that I made an oops with the preOpenStack. The second is that I 
don't
recall if I switched back to Edit mode before trying the Standalone 
settings.

Either way, as you state, the stack runs fine in Dreamcard, so 
everything seems
intact. Apparently, it's just not getting along with the IDE.

-Erin

Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Your description above says that the stack even worked fine in Rev 
> until you selected the "Standalone Application Settings" item.  So it 
> seems the stack is fine there too, the problem being something with 
> the Standalone Applications Settings stack or mode.



From jhj at jhj.com  Sat Nov 12 22:39:45 2005
From: jhj at jhj.com (Jerry J)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 19:39:45 -0800
Subject: frappr map
In-Reply-To: <20051112115140.C2BDF825316@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051112115140.C2BDF825316@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <ee299b351283d3217957c5f138829ee7@jhj.com>

> From: Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Subject: Re: frappr map

> Hey Jerry! Your picture is broken... perhaps upload another?
> :-)

Dunno how that happened - I deleted the original shout, maybe the pic 
went along, although frappr still had the thumbnail. Never mind, I put 
a new original up. It was taken with a b&w video camera hooked into 
some special grabber hooked to a mac 512, about 20 years ago. We were 
astounded that it could even be done. It was in a friend's studio in 
the same building now housing Fourthworld and Mr. Gaskin!

Jerry



From katir at hindu.org  Sat Nov 12 23:24:20 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 18:24:20 -1000
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <0D3A8C3C-F606-4B58-B658-3EB1403D3CB5@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<B40C5004-3A7A-4EAD-A31E-776DEFBEA5D5@hindu.org>
	<F0C3C931-E2EA-4006-A7D8-B0EB2651629C@danshafer.com>
	<0D3A8C3C-F606-4B58-B658-3EB1403D3CB5@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <E7725573-3B85-4931-8919-1A9420F8233B@hindu.org>

Actually he was talking about a very much larger framework/standard  
where Warner Brothers was thinking if they did it that way then  
"everyone" could talk to their accounting via web services, banks,  
vendors... etc.... everyone... i.e. the problem wasn't narrow scope  
but the behemoth octopus syndrome.

On Nov 12, 2005, at 2:54 PM, Dave Cragg wrote:

>
> On 13 Nov 2005, at 00:19, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>
>> From which experience i conclude:
>>
>> (a) AJAX and RIAs are not a panacea
>> (b) $2 billion acconting firms IT shops probably don't embrace new  
>> technologies in the first place (having seen *that* up close and  
>> personal)
>> (c) Moving information from one Web service to another is often  
>> difficult because of all the impenetrable crap put in the way for  
>> "security" in the first place
>> (d) This technology has a ways to go.
>>
>
> I suspect the CIO was talking about "web services" in the narrow  
> sense of something like SOAP (no longer word of the month). And if  
> that's the case, I can understand his comments. I remember  
> struggling to make the SOAP toolkit that was once distributed with  
> Rev, and at the time thinking "what's the point?". The aim was  
> basically to get a piece of dynamically generated xml from one  
> computer to another - not very different from a web form and a cgi  
> script. In this case, I think it's not the technology that has a  
> way to go, but the definition of a clear purpose, without which  
> committees will  generate more committees until the camel is built.
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 12, 2005, at 2:34 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The CIO of a 2 billion dollar accounting firm that handles movie  
>>> and media events accounting for the likes of Warner Brothers and  
>>> Disney, is on our team... he was just here in my office  
>>> yesterday, explaining to me to be "very cautious" about using of  
>>> web services. Warner Brother's forced them into it and he says  
>>> the kajillion lines of code that have evolved from this  
>>> decision... just to do the simple of things, where all that is  
>>> really happening is a very little bit of data is moving via an  
>>> XML protocol from one machine to another, is costing everybody,  
>>> big time...he said "don't go there!"
>>>
>>> just FYI.
>>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Nov 13 01:19:29 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 00:19:29 -0600
Subject: How can I print all parts of oversize
	cards	!?&In-Reply-To=s3765385.012@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK
In-Reply-To: <s3768645.026@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>
References: <s3768645.026@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>
Message-ID: <4376DAF1.6070606@hyperactivesw.com>

Kresten Bjerg wrote:

> If one could  somehow script to flash the screen, like the  macintosh 
> command shift 3 /or 4 and select area ....or the grab application, and somehow send it to the printer....???
>    But it has to be a cross-platform solution !

There's the "export snapshot" command. It takes a picture of the screen 
based on coordinates you supply, and saves it to a file on disk. But it 
only does a screen shot, so if any of your card window isn't on screen, 
then you can't take a picture of it.


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk  Sun Nov 13 09:36:45 2005
From: Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk (Kresten Bjerg)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 15:36:45 +0100
Subject: How can I print all parts of oversize
Message-ID: <s3775da5.008@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>

The window to be printed is in all instances on the screen. The export snapshot sounds OK,
 but not to a file, it is the printing, which shall be fully automatic for the user of the standalone. 
Can that be scripted into the handler ?
 
Kresten
 
www.psy.ku.dk/bjerg



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sun Nov 13 11:08:18 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 11:08:18 -0500
Subject: scrolling to a line
Message-ID: <12537E4C-5971-4DF2-9A47-72FD01474E4A@conncoll.edu>

I've modified Xavier's modification of my modification of  
(somebody's??) code to search incrementally in a sorted list field.  
(This version, unlike Xavier's, assumes the whole line in the field  
is the sorted item.)

But it doesn't solve one problem: suppose the user starts typing a  
string that doesn't appear in the list? If the first few letters  
match something, this scrolls to pretty close. But suppose nothing  
starts with 'Q' and the user starts by typing a 'q'? The list won't  
scroll at all. What would be nicer would be to scroll to the place  
where an item beginning with 'q' *would* be if there were one. I've  
only thought about it for a few minutes, but it's already given me a  
headache. Any clues?

local kTyped, lastKeyTime
on keyUp theKey
     if lastKeyTime is empty or the seconds - lastKeyTime > 3
     then put theKey into kTyped
     else put theKey after kTyped
     put the seconds into lastKeyTime
     put lineOffset(CR & kTyped, me) into lo
     if lo is not 0
     then set the scroll of me to lo * the effective textHeight of me
end keyUp

Charles Hartman


From rcozens at pon.net  Sun Nov 13 11:19:38 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 08:19:38 -0800
Subject: Resizing During Resizing
Message-ID: <7.0.0.10.1.20051113075647.019cbcc8@pon.net>

Hi All,

I want to be able to change the height or width of a stack from 
inside the stack's resizeStack handler without triggering a second 
resizeStack message.

I have created a portfolio of photographs of my wife's art.  All 
photos have a 3 (w) to 2 (h) orientation/proportion and the stack 
layout is designed to retain same.  In resizeStack, I check to see 
whether the user has resized the height to a greater degree than the 
width or vice versa, and then change the other dimension to retain 
the 3 to 2 proportion.  Here is a test handler based on my handler:

on resizeStack newWidth,newHeight,oldWidth,oldHeight
   beep
   lock screen
   put abs(newWidth-oldWidth) into widthDifference
   put abs(newHeight-oldHeight) into heightDifference
   lock messages
   if widthDifference >= heightDifference then set the height of this 
stack to trunc((newWidth/3)*2)
   else set the width of this stack to trunc((newHeight/2)*3)
   unlock messages
   unlock screen
end resizeStack

When I run this handler I hear two beeps, indicating that a 
resizeStack message is sent when a stack dimension is changed, even 
though I have locked messages.   I suppose I could add logic to set 
and check a local variable; but I'm wondering--

	* Does this happen in 2.6.1?
	* Why does the second resizeStack message get sent when messages are locked?
	* Why doesn't the logic loop recursively (ie: why doesn't the second 
resizeStack message trigger a third)?

Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
  Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

  from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)



From rev at armbase.com  Sun Nov 13 12:22:58 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 17:22:58 +0000
Subject: tmalign in gadgetbar
Message-ID: <gemini.ipwlma0002js900h4.rev@armbase.com>


Hi All.

i have tmalign in the gadgets folder but refreshing the gadgetbar to the
gadgets folder does not show tmal;igh in the gadgetbar grouping.

Anyone know the problem. I'm on winXP

Cheers
Bob 


From david at openpartnership.net  Sun Nov 13 12:21:03 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:21:03 +0100
Subject: kwote
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511111429tdb9ea8aq55c55bedfc4c5bf4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BF990457.24AF5%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<4373C81F.60400@fourthworld.com>
	<FC37B89F-1CDB-4B53-97F4-3FB0CD35D53C@canelasoftware.com>
	<9184ecebbab2ff7886c3caa5e6d707e6@together.net>
	<75BBF947-53C5-4EFE-8AE6-3EAEB4132C66@openpartnership.net>
	<f99b52860511101917o9ab4ec9n70a70de61065f982@mail.gmail.com>
	<B619E7DF-A107-4649-A85A-6C2CE6D48B50@openpartnership.net>
	<f99b52860511111429tdb9ea8aq55c55bedfc4c5bf4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EC3EB288-0248-47B0-A7FD-4B208F73F1CC@openpartnership.net>


On 11 Nov 2005, at 23:29, Sarah Reichelt wrote:


>> Actually, ( this is Dans fault :) - I am curious - do you use "kwote
>> ()" as well - or are you just being nice to me :)  If so can you
>> remember where you got it from
>>
>>
>
> I sometimes use an equivalent function which I just call q() to make
> for even less typing :-)
>

Ok - so no history less on here then :(


> Unless speed is an issue, I wouldn't worry about it.
>

Well, I need to do it - it's one of the script processing functions I  
haven't written:

function script_Inline someScript, functionCalled
     -- take the function replace the call with transcript code  
extracted from the text of the functionCalled
     return newScript
end script_Inline

function script_ReplaceFunctionCall someScript, functionCallName,  
newFunctionCallName
     -- take the function replace the call with the name of the new  
function
     return newScript
end script_ReplaceFunctionCall

function script_ReNameFunction someScript, functionCallName,  
newFunctionCallName
     -- take the script
     -- rename the function
     -- then replace the function calls with the name of the new  
function
     return newScript
end script_ReNameFunction



From david at openpartnership.net  Sun Nov 13 12:26:36 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:26:36 +0100
Subject: Safe (icon) image IDs
In-Reply-To: <BF9A3C69.24BF3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BF9A3C69.24BF3%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <A7CFED88-246A-4C12-8656-0D6933FC4F80@openpartnership.net>

On 11 Nov 2005, at 21:17, Scott Rossi wrote:

> But this reminds me of a "Stupid Web Trick"? that I use in  
> situations where
> I want to grab something from the Web, but for whatever reason the  
> link is
> inaccessible from my browser (or Rev in this case).
>
> STEP 1 - open your favorite text editor
> STEP 2 - type the following into a new document:
>
> <html>
> <body>
> <a href="http://www.server.com/link_to_file_I_want.xyz">link</a>
> </body>
> </html>
>
> STEP 3 - save the document to your desktop as "link.html" or similar
> STEP 4 - open the link document in your Web browser
> STEP 5 - control/option click the link to auto-download to your  
> computer

That's what I was trying to avoid :) This brings up the point of  
setting mime types for browsers. I asked a couple of times on the  
list the last month. I confess (miserably) to not having looked at  
doing this in OSX yet - sure the dialogue is somewhere. But what I  
really want is to have Rev do this for me, and a few years back  
someone somewhere posted this on the Metacard list.

Anyone know how to get Rev to set up the mime types so as to automate  
this for the user? Aim is to not just get browser to download file  
and set file type for you, but to allow browser clicked links to open  
a Rev stack. Can someone clarify the issues here for me? Ideally this  
would be cross platform - but OSX is good enough for now?

From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Sun Nov 13 12:33:14 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:33:14 +0100
Subject: Resizing During Resizing
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.10.1.20051113075647.019cbcc8@pon.net>
References: <7.0.0.10.1.20051113075647.019cbcc8@pon.net>
Message-ID: <4336D60D-E72D-44A0-9919-6E229F76200C@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Rob,

just add an "exit to top":

on resizeStack newWidth,newHeight,oldWidth,oldHeight
   beep
   lock screen
   put abs(newWidth-oldWidth) into widthDifference
   put abs(newHeight-oldHeight) into heightDifference
   lock messages
   if widthDifference >= heightDifference then set the height of this  
stack to trunc((newWidth/3)*2)
   else set the width of this stack to trunc((newHeight/2)*3)

   exit to top

   unlock messages
   unlock screen
end resizeStack

Hope this helps :-)
Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

PS. Same behaviour with 2.6.1 here.

Le 13 nov. 05 ? 17:19, Rob Cozens a ?crit :

> Hi All,
>
> I want to be able to change the height or width of a stack from  
> inside the stack's resizeStack handler without triggering a second  
> resizeStack message.
>
> I have created a portfolio of photographs of my wife's art.  All  
> photos have a 3 (w) to 2 (h) orientation/proportion and the stack  
> layout is designed to retain same.  In resizeStack, I check to see  
> whether the user has resized the height to a greater degree than  
> the width or vice versa, and then change the other dimension to  
> retain the 3 to 2 proportion.  Here is a test handler based on my  
> handler:
>
> on resizeStack newWidth,newHeight,oldWidth,oldHeight
>   beep
>   lock screen
>   put abs(newWidth-oldWidth) into widthDifference
>   put abs(newHeight-oldHeight) into heightDifference
>   lock messages
>   if widthDifference >= heightDifference then set the height of  
> this stack to trunc((newWidth/3)*2)
>   else set the width of this stack to trunc((newHeight/2)*3)
>   unlock messages
>   unlock screen
> end resizeStack
>
> When I run this handler I hear two beeps, indicating that a  
> resizeStack message is sent when a stack dimension is changed, even  
> though I have locked messages.   I suppose I could add logic to set  
> and check a local variable; but I'm wondering--
>
> 	* Does this happen in 2.6.1?
> 	* Why does the second resizeStack message get sent when messages  
> are locked?
> 	* Why doesn't the logic loop recursively (ie: why doesn't the  
> second resizeStack message trigger a third)?
>
> Rob Cozens CCW
> Serendipity Software Company
>
> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
>  Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
>
>  from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Nov 13 12:39:08 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:39:08 +0100
Subject: Resizing During Resizing
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.10.1.20051113075647.019cbcc8@pon.net>
Message-ID: <20051113170105.C4E7A824EF4@mail.runrev.com>

Hi Rob,

most routines I use to resize stack windows rely on the
stack's rect instead of the width or height of the window.

Since resizing the width/height displaces the topleft point
of the window, you have to be careful that you don't jitter 
the windowborder you are grabing and the mouseloc...

The RectResize is a bit more complicated I think...

Also, the mouse changes the window's size and then it sends
a resizestack message. So it's tricky to see what happens
when you do that... who gets the priority to the resize
position of the window? you set it to A, your script sets it
to B and as it resizes the border was B must go to the next A.

Unlock the screen to see what happens. Jittery resize of the
window?

Also it maybe safer to separate the window resize handler
from the resizestack and call it from there.

on resizeStack
  lock messages
  doMyWindowResiteAdjustment
  unlock messages
  pass resizestack
end resizeStack

About Lock Screen...

Don't use it. It should work ok without it or you're doing
something wrong ;). If you see jitter, lock screen for any
repeat control positioning loops involved in the resizeevent. 


-- that and a lot more in a 3 letter stack I've been talking
about lately.

So far I've observed those as good guidelines and they've 
served me well in most of my resizeable palettes, splitters,
etc...

hope it helps. hope it wasn't too xtalkish...

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com rev it up




> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Rob Cozens
> Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 17:20
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Resizing During Resizing
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I want to be able to change the height or width of a stack 
> from inside the stack's resizeStack handler without 
> triggering a second resizeStack message.
> 
> I have created a portfolio of photographs of my wife's art.  
> All photos have a 3 (w) to 2 (h) orientation/proportion and 
> the stack layout is designed to retain same.  In resizeStack, 
> I check to see whether the user has resized the height to a 
> greater degree than the width or vice versa, and then change 
> the other dimension to retain the 3 to 2 proportion.  Here is 
> a test handler based on my handler:
> 
> on resizeStack newWidth,newHeight,oldWidth,oldHeight
>    beep
>    lock screen
>    put abs(newWidth-oldWidth) into widthDifference
>    put abs(newHeight-oldHeight) into heightDifference
>    lock messages
>    if widthDifference >= heightDifference then set the height 
> of this stack to trunc((newWidth/3)*2)
>    else set the width of this stack to trunc((newHeight/2)*3)
>    unlock messages
>    unlock screen
> end resizeStack
> 
> When I run this handler I hear two beeps, indicating that a 
> resizeStack message is sent when a stack dimension is changed, even 
> though I have locked messages.   I suppose I could add logic to set 
> and check a local variable; but I'm wondering--
> 
> 	* Does this happen in 2.6.1?
> 	* Why does the second resizeStack message get sent when 
> messages are locked?
> 	* Why doesn't the logic loop recursively (ie: why 
> doesn't the second resizeStack message trigger a third)?
> 
> Rob Cozens CCW
> Serendipity Software Company
> 
> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
>   Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
> 
>   from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From david at openpartnership.net  Sun Nov 13 12:37:29 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:37:29 +0100
Subject: frappr map
In-Reply-To: <7F09F8D5-40FF-4FB4-A65F-AC91CCC2A69E@easynet.fr>
References: <20051112022404.6D1058252C0@mail.runrev.com>
	<7F09F8D5-40FF-4FB4-A65F-AC91CCC2A69E@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <C19E2B59-0EEB-4199-817A-86FA71B7531A@openpartnership.net>

On 12 Nov 2005, at 08:06, Pierre Sahores wrote:

> About AJAX, just a work in progress using "ka-map", "mapscript",  
> "mapserver" (to get from <www.maptools.org> and <http:// 
> www.kyngchaos.com/macosx/downloads.php>, a runtime revolution glue  
> application's server (not online at this time), a MySQL backend,...

TikiWiki uses this set up as well Pierre - you may want to take a  
look. Great idea to integrate with Rev directly though!


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Nov 13 12:47:20 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:47:20 +0100
Subject: scrolling to a line
In-Reply-To: <12537E4C-5971-4DF2-9A47-72FD01474E4A@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <20051113170910.65368824EFE@mail.runrev.com>

 
try select before line lo of me

or something like that, no that don't work in list fields

set the hilitedline of me to lo (0 works ok! ;)

;)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Charles Hartman
> Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 17:08
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: scrolling to a line
> 
> I've modified Xavier's modification of my modification of
> (somebody's??) code to search incrementally in a sorted list field.  
> (This version, unlike Xavier's, assumes the whole line in the 
> field is the sorted item.)
> 
> But it doesn't solve one problem: suppose the user starts 
> typing a string that doesn't appear in the list? If the first 
> few letters match something, this scrolls to pretty close. 
> But suppose nothing starts with 'Q' and the user starts by 
> typing a 'q'? The list won't scroll at all. What would be 
> nicer would be to scroll to the place where an item beginning 
> with 'q' *would* be if there were one. I've only thought 
> about it for a few minutes, but it's already given me a 
> headache. Any clues?
> 
> local kTyped, lastKeyTime
> on keyUp theKey
>      if lastKeyTime is empty or the seconds - lastKeyTime > 3
>      then put theKey into kTyped
>      else put theKey after kTyped
>      put the seconds into lastKeyTime
>      put lineOffset(CR & kTyped, me) into lo
>      if lo is not 0
>      then set the scroll of me to lo * the effective 
> textHeight of me end keyUp
> 
> Charles Hartman
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Nov 13 12:54:14 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:54:14 +0100
Subject: download and Mime problems (was RE: Safe (icon) image IDs)
In-Reply-To: <A7CFED88-246A-4C12-8656-0D6933FC4F80@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <20051113171604.977CB825012@mail.runrev.com>

Could this help? It seems free... and open source ;)

http://osx.freshmeat.net/projects/mime-editor/ 

cheers
Xavier 
http://Monsieurx.com



> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> David Bovill
> Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 18:27
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Safe (icon) image IDs
> 
> On 11 Nov 2005, at 21:17, Scott Rossi wrote:
> 
> > But this reminds me of a "Stupid Web Trick"? that I use in 
> situations 
> > where I want to grab something from the Web, but for 
> whatever reason 
> > the link is inaccessible from my browser (or Rev in this case).
> >
> > STEP 1 - open your favorite text editor STEP 2 - type the following 
> > into a new document:
> >
> > <html>
> > <body>
> > <a href="http://www.server.com/link_to_file_I_want.xyz">link</a>
> > </body>
> > </html>
> >
> > STEP 3 - save the document to your desktop as "link.html" 
> or similar 
> > STEP 4 - open the link document in your Web browser STEP 5 - 
> > control/option click the link to auto-download to your computer
> 
> That's what I was trying to avoid :) This brings up the point 
> of setting mime types for browsers. I asked a couple of times 
> on the list the last month. I confess (miserably) to not 
> having looked at doing this in OSX yet - sure the dialogue is 
> somewhere. But what I really want is to have Rev do this for 
> me, and a few years back someone somewhere posted this on the 
> Metacard list.
> 
> Anyone know how to get Rev to set up the mime types so as to 
> automate this for the user? Aim is to not just get browser to 
> download file and set file type for you, but to allow browser 
> clicked links to open a Rev stack. Can someone clarify the 
> issues here for me? Ideally this would be cross platform - 
> but OSX is good enough for 
> now?_______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Sun Nov 13 12:51:44 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:51:44 +0100
Subject: Resizing During Resizing
In-Reply-To: <4336D60D-E72D-44A0-9919-6E229F76200C@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <7.0.0.10.1.20051113075647.019cbcc8@pon.net>
	<4336D60D-E72D-44A0-9919-6E229F76200C@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <66E1CBF7-B1A6-4012-A270-42883D637974@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Rob,

2 thoughts:

1. The screen is locked while a resizeStack handler is running, so it  
is not necessary to use the lock screen command to prevent changes  
from being seen. (However, the lockScreen property is not set to true.)

2. Xavier is right: working with the rect would be better to preserve  
the topLeft :-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.


Le 13 nov. 05 ? 18:33, Eric Chatonet a ?crit :

> Hi Rob,
>
> just add an "exit to top":
>
> on resizeStack newWidth,newHeight,oldWidth,oldHeight
>   beep
>   lock screen
>   put abs(newWidth-oldWidth) into widthDifference
>   put abs(newHeight-oldHeight) into heightDifference
>   lock messages
>   if widthDifference >= heightDifference then set the height of  
> this stack to trunc((newWidth/3)*2)
>   else set the width of this stack to trunc((newHeight/2)*3)
>
>   exit to top
>
>   unlock messages
>   unlock screen
> end resizeStack
>
> Hope this helps :-)
> Best Regards from Paris,
>
> Eric Chatonet.
>
> PS. Same behaviour with 2.6.1 here.
>
> Le 13 nov. 05 ? 17:19, Rob Cozens a ?crit :
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I want to be able to change the height or width of a stack from  
>> inside the stack's resizeStack handler without triggering a second  
>> resizeStack message.
>>
>> I have created a portfolio of photographs of my wife's art.  All  
>> photos have a 3 (w) to 2 (h) orientation/proportion and the stack  
>> layout is designed to retain same.  In resizeStack, I check to see  
>> whether the user has resized the height to a greater degree than  
>> the width or vice versa, and then change the other dimension to  
>> retain the 3 to 2 proportion.  Here is a test handler based on my  
>> handler:
>>
>> on resizeStack newWidth,newHeight,oldWidth,oldHeight
>>   beep
>>   lock screen
>>   put abs(newWidth-oldWidth) into widthDifference
>>   put abs(newHeight-oldHeight) into heightDifference
>>   lock messages
>>   if widthDifference >= heightDifference then set the height of  
>> this stack to trunc((newWidth/3)*2)
>>   else set the width of this stack to trunc((newHeight/2)*3)
>>   unlock messages
>>   unlock screen
>> end resizeStack
>>
>> When I run this handler I hear two beeps, indicating that a  
>> resizeStack message is sent when a stack dimension is changed,  
>> even though I have locked messages.   I suppose I could add logic  
>> to set and check a local variable; but I'm wondering--
>>
>> 	* Does this happen in 2.6.1?
>> 	* Why does the second resizeStack message get sent when messages  
>> are locked?
>> 	* Why doesn't the logic loop recursively (ie: why doesn't the  
>> second resizeStack message trigger a third)?
>>
>> Rob Cozens CCW
>> Serendipity Software Company
>>
>> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
>>  Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
>>
>>  from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> So Smart Software
>
> For institutions, companies and associations
> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From david at openpartnership.net  Sun Nov 13 13:01:13 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 19:01:13 +0100
Subject: download and Mime problems (was RE: Safe (icon) image IDs)
In-Reply-To: <20051113171604.977CB825012@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051113171604.977CB825012@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <DF765DF3-C24A-4131-BAFF-24FE9054F30E@openpartnership.net>

On 13 Nov 2005, at 18:54, MisterX wrote:

> Could this help? It seems free... and open source ;)
>
> http://osx.freshmeat.net/projects/mime-editor/

Looks like Linux only - freedesktop. Rox is cool though :)


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sun Nov 13 13:02:06 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 13:02:06 -0500
Subject: scrolling to a line
In-Reply-To: <20051113170910.65368824EFE@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051113170910.65368824EFE@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <DF8A5A6A-DC29-47A2-A13E-B821E5FEF738@conncoll.edu>


On Nov 13, 2005, at 12:47 PM, MisterX wrote:

>
> try select before line lo of me
>
> or something like that, no that don't work in list fields
>
> set the hilitedline of me to lo (0 works ok! ;)

I don't think so, unless I'm being even denser than usual. If there's  
no match at all, 'lo' will contain 0, so no scroll at all.

>
> ;)
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>> Charles Hartman
>> Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 17:08
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: scrolling to a line
>>
>> I've modified Xavier's modification of my modification of
>> (somebody's??) code to search incrementally in a sorted list field.
>> (This version, unlike Xavier's, assumes the whole line in the
>> field is the sorted item.)
>>
>> But it doesn't solve one problem: suppose the user starts
>> typing a string that doesn't appear in the list? If the first
>> few letters match something, this scrolls to pretty close.
>> But suppose nothing starts with 'Q' and the user starts by
>> typing a 'q'? The list won't scroll at all. What would be
>> nicer would be to scroll to the place where an item beginning
>> with 'q' *would* be if there were one. I've only thought
>> about it for a few minutes, but it's already given me a
>> headache. Any clues?
>>
>> local kTyped, lastKeyTime
>> on keyUp theKey
>>      if lastKeyTime is empty or the seconds - lastKeyTime > 3
>>      then put theKey into kTyped
>>      else put theKey after kTyped
>>      put the seconds into lastKeyTime
>>      put lineOffset(CR & kTyped, me) into lo
>>      if lo is not 0
>>      then set the scroll of me to lo * the effective
>> textHeight of me end keyUp
>>
>> Charles Hartman
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
>> your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Nov 13 13:12:46 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 10:12:46 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <0D3A8C3C-F606-4B58-B658-3EB1403D3CB5@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<B40C5004-3A7A-4EAD-A31E-776DEFBEA5D5@hindu.org>
	<F0C3C931-E2EA-4006-A7D8-B0EB2651629C@danshafer.com>
	<0D3A8C3C-F606-4B58-B658-3EB1403D3CB5@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1761267963.20051113101246@ahsoftware.net>

Dave-

Saturday, November 12, 2005, 4:54:07 PM, you wrote:

> I suspect the CIO was talking about "web services" in the narrow
> sense of something like SOAP (no longer word of the month). And if  

My main problem with web and SOAP services is that they seem to appear
and disappear every six months or so. The only web services I use
anymore in my code are weather.com and the various language
translation services, and even there I try to script alternatives for
when they eventually go away.

...(and regarding Flavor Of The Month) even Parasoft, the makers of
SOAPTest, have recently changed that product name to SOATest...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From jspencer78 at mac.com  Sun Nov 13 13:10:59 2005
From: jspencer78 at mac.com (James Spencer)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 12:10:59 -0600
Subject: tmalign in gadgetbar
In-Reply-To: <gemini.ipwlma0002js900h4.rev@armbase.com>
References: <gemini.ipwlma0002js900h4.rev@armbase.com>
Message-ID: <307D103E-801C-46B4-83E2-8E9F5A501F5F@mac.com>


On Nov 13, 2005, at 11:22 AM, Bob Hartley wrote:

>
> Hi All.
>
> i have tmalign in the gadgets folder but refreshing the gadgetbar  
> to the
> gadgets folder does not show tmal;igh in the gadgetbar grouping.
>
> Anyone know the problem. I'm on winXP

Because you are on winXP, there may be something else but make sure  
you have the latest version of tmalign.  It's only in recent versions  
that the necessary object has been present to permit tmalign to  
appear on gadgetbar.

James P. Spencer
Rochester, MN

jspencer78 at mac.com

"Badges??  We don't need no stinkin badges!"



From david at openpartnership.net  Sun Nov 13 13:26:39 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 19:26:39 +0100
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <1761267963.20051113101246@ahsoftware.net>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<B40C5004-3A7A-4EAD-A31E-776DEFBEA5D5@hindu.org>
	<F0C3C931-E2EA-4006-A7D8-B0EB2651629C@danshafer.com>
	<0D3A8C3C-F606-4B58-B658-3EB1403D3CB5@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<1761267963.20051113101246@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <0F2F0315-E01D-4E72-8394-AD5488300DE5@openpartnership.net>

On 13 Nov 2005, at 19:12, Mark Wieder wrote:

> My main problem with web and SOAP services is that they seem to appear
> and disappear every six months or so. The only web services I use
> anymore in my code are weather.com and the various language
> translation services, and even there I try to script alternatives for
> when they eventually go away.

True - but you are talking SOAP and the state of play over the  
previous 5 years. As Dan has pointed out something is changing here -  
the xHHTPRequest functionality built into all modern browsers is the  
foundation for AJAX type services - RSS, ATOM and the rest in the  
blog and syndication world, and of course Google whose entire line of  
new product development is based on web services and AJAX in particular.

Frapr is just one example of this (based on Google Maps). Frapr could  
just as easily be embedded in Rev precisely because it is based on a  
stable Google web service. Expect to see a lot more stable web  
services emerge and then for people to start charging (not the end  
user) but the developers of customer facing services - take a look at  
Google Payments and what they are doing with video.

DIY programming based in Revolution is the mainstay for people on  
this list and the strong point of the RunRev IDE. However we all  
loose if we don't take advantage of these coming changes and have  
support for these services built into the Rev environment.

As a practical and relatively simple example - next month hope to  
start working on a Flicr (for some reason all this stuff gets spelt  
the same way :) browser in Rev.

Flicr has a simple REST based web service (think "get url" and  
"post") - the majority of images are released under a Creative  
Commons license to free to use (particularly for non-commercial use)  
- there are now 52 million Creative Commons lisenced works out there  
and the majority are photographs.

Anyone want to work on a Flicr image browser?


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Nov 13 13:37:38 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 19:37:38 +0100
Subject: scrolling to a line
In-Reply-To: <DF8A5A6A-DC29-47A2-A13E-B821E5FEF738@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <20051113175932.B14648252FB@mail.runrev.com>


> > set the hilitedline of me to lo (0 works ok! ;)
> 
> I don't think so, unless I'm being even denser than usual. If 
> there's no match at all, 'lo' will contain 0, so no scroll at all.

I meant it unselects anything if you click in an empty line ;)

can be handled how you want...

for example if you keep the last selection in a script local

local lastselection

on mouseup
  if line is empty then
    set hilitedline of the field to lastselection
  else
    put the clickline into x
    if it's empty delete then line x -- ;)
    set the hilitedline of the field to x
    put x into lastselection
  etc...

end 

Nice fields get quickly complicated ;)

cheers
Xavier



From david at openpartnership.net  Sun Nov 13 13:40:51 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 19:40:51 +0100
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <E7725573-3B85-4931-8919-1A9420F8233B@hindu.org>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<B40C5004-3A7A-4EAD-A31E-776DEFBEA5D5@hindu.org>
	<F0C3C931-E2EA-4006-A7D8-B0EB2651629C@danshafer.com>
	<0D3A8C3C-F606-4B58-B658-3EB1403D3CB5@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<E7725573-3B85-4931-8919-1A9420F8233B@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <F8BAA867-0A58-49F4-A946-B4A9CC23489E@openpartnership.net>

On 13 Nov 2005, at 05:24, Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Actually he was talking about a very much larger framework/standard  
> where Warner Brothers was thinking if they did it that way then  
> "everyone" could talk to their accounting via web services, banks,  
> vendors... etc.... everyone... i.e. the problem wasn't narrow scope  
> but the behemoth octopus syndrome.

Good point though!

The main problem with the web service paradigm is for this sort of  
application area. Noone is very happy trusting sensitive data this  
way. Would you want your financial or medical data going over a web  
service? Even if secured via HTTPS? Would you even want your  
accounting information stored somewhere else? How about your contact  
information and address book?

If the answer is no - that should not stop you taking this seriously.  
Look at application areas where this is not a problem - for us we  
intend to practice open accounting (works for a number of NGO's) -  
for others this would most definitely not work (think Arthur  
Anderson / Accenture).

Also the whole internet payments thing is changing fast. HTTPS is now  
built into RunRev - not many of us are using it yet, but this changes  
when we start thinking web services and payment collection. Digital  
(client side certificates) are coming for free to your desktop soon.

Not all change is bad and hype takes 4-5 years to mature  
( sometimes :) ?


From psahores at easynet.fr  Sun Nov 13 13:49:00 2005
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 19:49:00 +0100
Subject: frappr map
In-Reply-To: <C19E2B59-0EEB-4199-817A-86FA71B7531A@openpartnership.net>
References: <20051112022404.6D1058252C0@mail.runrev.com>
	<7F09F8D5-40FF-4FB4-A65F-AC91CCC2A69E@easynet.fr>
	<C19E2B59-0EEB-4199-817A-86FA71B7531A@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <C8600AAD-EBB3-495C-B79F-67352B1B35BB@easynet.fr>

Thanks for the tip, David.

Best Regards,

Pierre

Le 13 nov. 05 ? 18:37, David Bovill a ?crit :

> On 12 Nov 2005, at 08:06, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>
>> About AJAX, just a work in progress using "ka-map", "mapscript",  
>> "mapserver" (to get from <www.maptools.org> and <http:// 
>> www.kyngchaos.com/macosx/downloads.php>, a runtime revolution glue  
>> application's server (not online at this time), a MySQL backend,...
>
> TikiWiki uses this set up as well Pierre - you may want to take a  
> look. Great idea to integrate with Rev directly though!
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr
sc+ at +sahores-conseil.com

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

<http://www.sahores-conseil.com/>

WEB/VoD/ACID-DB services over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Nov 13 13:59:37 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 12:59:37 -0600
Subject: scrolling to a line
In-Reply-To: <12537E4C-5971-4DF2-9A47-72FD01474E4A@conncoll.edu>
References: <12537E4C-5971-4DF2-9A47-72FD01474E4A@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <43778D19.30900@hyperactivesw.com>

Charles Hartman wrote:
> I've modified Xavier's modification of my modification of  
> (somebody's??) code to search incrementally in a sorted list field. 

Could it have been the one I posted about two years ago? I sent this to 
the list:


local lUserKeys, lOldTicks
on keyDown  whichKey -- select from keyboard
   -- J. Landman Gay, 1990, modified for Revolution: 2003
   if (the selectedField is not "") or (charToNum(whichKey) is among the 
items of "28,29,30,31") -- arrow keys
   then pass keyDown
   if the ticks - lOldTicks > 60 then put "" into lUserKeys
   put whichKey after lUserKeys
   put return & fld "myField" & return into tListText
   get lineoffset(cr&lUserKeys,tListText)
   if it > 0 then set the hilitedline of fld "myField" to it
   put the ticks into lOldTicks
end keyDown

> But it doesn't solve one problem: suppose the user starts typing a
 > string that doesn't appear in the list?

The easiest thing would be to just add a beep in this case, but if I 
have time today I'll see if I can rewrite it to accomodate.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From katir at hindu.org  Sun Nov 13 14:45:06 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 09:45:06 -1000
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <43738E55.8020604@fourthworld.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>
	<187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>
	<43738E55.8020604@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B5612F79-C4DB-49A0-9911-16BADF368100@hindu.org>

More real world testimony:

For several years I've been uploading the files for our magazine  
Hinduism Today to Banta Publication in Missouri, using their "Emerge"  
program which is this giant JAVA applet that runs inside a browser  
and interfaces with Creo's amazing InSite prepress system. It's  
really a marvel, but horribly slow, and I can tell from machinations  
on Banta's side they and Creo have been struggling with engineering  
this beast to run inside different browsers with different levels of  
JAVA installed. Does it work? yes... but.. guess what..  after three  
years of this, while sort out some tech upgrades on Jan 06 upload, my  
tech support in Electronic Prepress in Kansas City is on the phone  
and says to me "Hey right Emerge is a pain... go to this directory  
and download Creo's new desktop app, I know you are not afraid of the  
bleeding edge and you can test this for us...  not all the functions  
are there, yet, still in beta, but you can just drag and drop your  
files.. and ... etc."

OK, so I open up Creo's new desk top app to interface with the remote  
InSite server in Missouri from Hawaii... it's beautiful...and we all   
know the Creo's engineers must have breathed a huge sigh of relief  
when someone said "OK, ditch the browser guys, just build something  
that works"  If Banta Publications (one of US's top five printers)  
and Creo (recently purchased by Kodak) do not represent real market  
forces... I don't know what real market forces are... and they seem  
to be going the other way... yes of course, use the internet, but  
just the wires... i.e. it is "our web" not MS's web, or Netscape's  
web or anybody elses web. For these people, as Chipp said,  
productivity is the most important issue, with nearly 500  
publications a year to get out the door, some of the weeklies, its  
time to get real, and the glitter of the web service has finally worn  
off, get the job done...just build the tool we really, really need.

Sivakatirswami



On Nov 10, 2005, at 8:15 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> That web apps will become an increasingly important "also" at  
> Microsoft and everywhere else is a given.  But replacing all apps?   
> Somehow I think not, and I suspect Microsoft's clever marketing  
> move is as much a distraction as anything else, consistent with the  
> company's demonstrated character and history....



From david at openpartnership.net  Sun Nov 13 14:55:45 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:55:45 +0100
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <B5612F79-C4DB-49A0-9911-16BADF368100@hindu.org>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>
	<187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>
	<43738E55.8020604@fourthworld.com>
	<B5612F79-C4DB-49A0-9911-16BADF368100@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <71334EB4-E761-453A-9D01-7B311E9AE6B6@openpartnership.net>

On 13 Nov 2005, at 20:45, Sivakatirswami wrote:

> For these people, as Chipp said, productivity is the most important  
> issue, with nearly 500 publications a year to get out the door,  
> some of the weeklies, its time to get real, and the glitter of the  
> web service has finally worn off, get the job done...just build the  
> tool we really, really need.

Sure - we all know Java applets suck.

But you miss the point - or at least one of them. The desktop app you  
are talking about is using "web services". Web services have nothing  
in their nature to do with standard HTML browsers. They can be used  
by AJAX style web sites (or plain vanilla web sites), but they can  
also be used by Rev based desktop applications.

Dans point is that we will see a good deal of current desktop  
applications moving over to Frapr style AJAX sites which is a  
potential threat to RunRev style desktop applications. There may or  
may not be a reasonably decent AJAX style replacement for the clunky  
Java applet you describe - done AJAX style. I sounds unlikely.

The point I am making is that Rev could be positioned right smack  
bang in the middle of this new world (which is not a Java applet  
world) - but this requires some thinking, some development and some  
marketing.


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Nov 13 15:03:17 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 21:03:17 +0100
Subject: scrolling to a line
In-Reply-To: <43778D19.30900@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <20051113192506.E1A688252BC@mail.runrev.com>

> > I've modified Xavier's modification of my modification of
> > (somebody's??) code to search incrementally in a sorted list field. 

that was original code - not to boast but to say why there wasn't no
arrowkey handling in it before. I also have on arrowkey handlers so I don?t
have
to handle those. Same on altkeyup with page up or down, control arrowkeys, 
etc... ;)

Depends how you set up the params of your field maybe...

--

Here's a few more cool functions which windows implements which are not 
impractical when the case applies...

If I keep pressing the same letter (since the start of filling the word), 
the line keeps going down until it reaches the last occurrence of the lines
starting with that letter, then it starts back at the first line.

The second one, if applicable, it jumps to the line starting with the next
best 
choice before the missing line... That way you see it's missing.

Beeping is annoying... I'd rather have the hilite flash or something
quiet...

But good suggestions. I'll see what comes up next time I touch it up ;)

But bring on any solution you may have...

Is 3 seconds too much? Should the lastuserkeys should be wiped if we press
deletekey or esc?

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> J. Landman Gay
> Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 20:00
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: scrolling to a line
> 
> Charles Hartman wrote:
> > I've modified Xavier's modification of my modification of
> > (somebody's??) code to search incrementally in a sorted list field. 
> 
> Could it have been the one I posted about two years ago? I 
> sent this to the list:
> 
> 
> local lUserKeys, lOldTicks
> on keyDown  whichKey -- select from keyboard
>    -- J. Landman Gay, 1990, modified for Revolution: 2003
>    if (the selectedField is not "") or (charToNum(whichKey) 
> is among the 
> items of "28,29,30,31") -- arrow keys
>    then pass keyDown
>    if the ticks - lOldTicks > 60 then put "" into lUserKeys
>    put whichKey after lUserKeys
>    put return & fld "myField" & return into tListText
>    get lineoffset(cr&lUserKeys,tListText)
>    if it > 0 then set the hilitedline of fld "myField" to it
>    put the ticks into lOldTicks
> end keyDown
> 
> > But it doesn't solve one problem: suppose the user starts typing a
>  > string that doesn't appear in the list?
> 
> The easiest thing would be to just add a beep in this case, but if I 
> have time today I'll see if I can rewrite it to accomodate.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Nov 13 15:04:58 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 12:04:58 -0800
Subject: scrolling to a line
In-Reply-To: <12537E4C-5971-4DF2-9A47-72FD01474E4A@conncoll.edu>
References: <12537E4C-5971-4DF2-9A47-72FD01474E4A@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <7F400B59-B5D8-4643-B9BF-4F2A602ECA3C@danshafer.com>

FWIW, I don't think that's expected behavior or necessarily good user  
experience design. If there's no "find" then things should stay the  
same. Maybe a beep but a scroll to a phantom location doesn't really  
help me much, doesn't give me any new information.

My $0.02.


On Nov 13, 2005, at 8:08 AM, Charles Hartman wrote:

> But it doesn't solve one problem: suppose the user starts typing a  
> string that doesn't appear in the list? If the first few letters  
> match something, this scrolls to pretty close. But suppose nothing  
> starts with 'Q' and the user starts by typing a 'q'? The list won't  
> scroll at all. What would be nicer would be to scroll to the place  
> where an item beginning with 'q' *would* be if there were one.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Nov 13 15:14:22 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 12:14:22 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <B5612F79-C4DB-49A0-9911-16BADF368100@hindu.org>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>
	<187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>
	<43738E55.8020604@fourthworld.com>
	<B5612F79-C4DB-49A0-9911-16BADF368100@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <B1B12725-DC2C-482A-A6B4-0E89BEAF8D47@danshafer.com>

OK, good points all around.

I have dampened -- but only slightly -- my original thought that  
triggered this thread. I lost sight momentarily of the fact that  
there's never only one solution to all problems. Some categories or  
types of applications will not lend themselves to AJAX/RIA  
deployment, at least not immediately.

But I don't think this negates the fundamental truth of my core  
position here: this kind of app, perhaps with additional  
infrastructure improvement, is the wave of the future. Rev developers  
and RunRev itself need to be positioned to play an appropriate role  
in this new universe or get run over.


On Nov 13, 2005, at 11:45 AM, Sivakatirswami wrote:

> More real world testimony:
>
> For several years I've been uploading the files for our magazine  
> Hinduism Today to Banta Publication in Missouri, using their  
> "Emerge" program which is this giant JAVA applet that runs inside a  
> browser and interfaces with Creo's amazing InSite prepress system.  
> It's really a marvel, but horribly slow, and I can tell from  
> machinations on Banta's side they and Creo have been struggling  
> with engineering this beast to run inside different browsers with  
> different levels of JAVA installed. Does it work? yes... but..  
> guess what..  after three years of this, while sort out some tech  
> upgrades on Jan 06 upload, my tech support in Electronic Prepress  
> in Kansas City is on the phone and says to me "Hey right Emerge is  
> a pain... go to this directory and download Creo's new desktop app,  
> I know you are not afraid of the bleeding edge and you can test  
> this for us...  not all the functions are there, yet, still in  
> beta, but you can just drag and drop your files.. and ... etc."
>
> OK, so I open up Creo's new desk top app to interface with the  
> remote InSite server in Missouri from Hawaii... it's  
> beautiful...and we all  know the Creo's engineers must have  
> breathed a huge sigh of relief when someone said "OK, ditch the  
> browser guys, just build something that works"  If Banta  
> Publications (one of US's top five printers) and Creo (recently  
> purchased by Kodak) do not represent real market forces... I don't  
> know what real market forces are... and they seem to be going the  
> other way... yes of course, use the internet, but just the wires...  
> i.e. it is "our web" not MS's web, or Netscape's web or anybody  
> elses web. For these people, as Chipp said, productivity is the  
> most important issue, with nearly 500 publications a year to get  
> out the door, some of the weeklies, its time to get real, and the  
> glitter of the web service has finally worn off, get the job  
> done...just build the tool we really, really need.
>
> Sivakatirswami
>
>
>
> On Nov 10, 2005, at 8:15 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> That web apps will become an increasingly important "also" at  
>> Microsoft and everywhere else is a given.  But replacing all  
>> apps?  Somehow I think not, and I suspect Microsoft's clever  
>> marketing move is as much a distraction as anything else,  
>> consistent with the company's demonstrated character and history....
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sun Nov 13 15:21:50 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 15:21:50 -0500
Subject: scrolling to a line
In-Reply-To: <7F400B59-B5D8-4643-B9BF-4F2A602ECA3C@danshafer.com>
References: <12537E4C-5971-4DF2-9A47-72FD01474E4A@conncoll.edu>
	<7F400B59-B5D8-4643-B9BF-4F2A602ECA3C@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <C341C0C6-6C84-421C-9A8F-4338F4075554@conncoll.edu>


On Nov 13, 2005, at 3:04 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> FWIW, I don't think that's expected behavior or necessarily good  
> user experience design. If there's no "find" then things should  
> stay the same. Maybe a beep but a scroll to a phantom location  
> doesn't really help me much, doesn't give me any new information.

Well, it tells you one thing: there's no entry like what you just  
typed. In my case, the user may be double-clicking a line to choose  
it, or pressing an "Add New" button if the thing isn't found.
>
>> But it doesn't solve one problem: suppose the user starts typing a  
>> string that doesn't appear in the list? If the first few letters  
>> match something, this scrolls to pretty close. But suppose nothing  
>> starts with 'Q' and the user starts by typing a 'q'? The list  
>> won't scroll at all. What would be nicer would be to scroll to the  
>> place where an item beginning with 'q' *would* be if there were one.



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sun Nov 13 15:29:24 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 15:29:24 -0500
Subject: scrolling to a line
In-Reply-To: <20051113192506.E1A688252BC@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051113192506.E1A688252BC@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <605CFED3-405C-4D88-9FB4-49F1F515EC45@conncoll.edu>

I finally figured out where I got the original code which I quoted in  
my message
	http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2005-November/ 
069934.html
-- it was written by Klaus and posted on Ken's SoT site:
	http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/fld003.htm



On Nov 13, 2005, at 3:03 PM, MisterX wrote:

>
> Here's a few more cool functions which windows implements which are  
> not
> impractical when the case applies...
>
> If I keep pressing the same letter (since the start of filling the  
> word),
> the line keeps going down until it reaches the last occurrence of  
> the lines
> starting with that letter, then it starts back at the first line.

Yes that would be handy (but not compatible with the full incremental  
search)

> The second one, if applicable, it jumps to the line starting with  
> the next
> best
> choice before the missing line... That way you see it's missing.

That's the one I'm finding elusive

> Beeping is annoying... I'd rather have the hilite flash or something
> quiet...

Yes, nothing I build beeps.

> Is 3 seconds too much? Should the lastuserkeys should be wiped if  
> we press
> deletekey or esc?

I played around with it. I can easily get used to 2 seconds or even  
1, and then it's handier in case of mistypes. But that's assuming you  
*know* about the delay. For the real world, 3 seconds seems to work  
as a good compromise.





From katir at hindu.org  Sun Nov 13 15:57:05 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 10:57:05 -1000
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <B1B12725-DC2C-482A-A6B4-0E89BEAF8D47@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>
	<187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>
	<43738E55.8020604@fourthworld.com>
	<B5612F79-C4DB-49A0-9911-16BADF368100@hindu.org>
	<B1B12725-DC2C-482A-A6B4-0E89BEAF8D47@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <E4E9CC6E-6AAE-4F52-AB98-8893770FA85C@hindu.org>

Dan: I am admittedly very ignorant of the overall picture, issues and  
the lexicon of this environment (AJAX is another brand name for COMET  
you use to clean sinks..) , but this is still an important discussion  
for us as we develop our own web sites and services, so let me just  
ask some basic questions.

when you say "this kind of app" can you describe "this kind of app"  
in your inimitable style of "how to get thru to newbies"  in 5  
sentences or so. I'm swimming in many terms that seem to have very  
wide definition scope.

We are already deploying some Rev apps to remote staff people and  
these apps talk to our server here... and at the data center in  
Connecticutt.. get data (either sound files, text files or data from  
a POSTGreSQL dbase), upload data. etc. is this what you mean by "this  
kind of app." In one case, it gets data.. they can work locally and  
then upload later... ie. runtime connectivity is not required to do  
the job, just to start and then to complete. I have another app that  
downloads blank white GIFS that are letter sized: of a comic book,  
and kids can colorize them in Rev and print them out if they have a  
printer, and then join register as a "Mystic Mouse Club Member." and  
the little stack they need to do the painting is downloaded in the  
background from the server... never installed perse..they have to be  
connected... its something Mom can respond to positively if her  
little daughter says "Can I use the internet?" the child goes on  
line  and feels "connected" when the little white swan flies down  
bringing a coloring page from far away...   is this what you mean by  
"This kind of app" as opposed to... what?

One thing I see out of this is that while the serve side interpretor  
"engines" are now "free" they is nominally supported  by RunRev...  
there's no revenue stream there... but I think we would all like to  
see that change.... perhaps it is as simple as licensing the raw  
server engines to only those who have bought the program. We don't  
use PERL or PHP or PYTHON on the web server  so, I've kind of already  
bought into Rev as both our client side and server side tool box.

skts


On Nov 13, 2005, at 10:14 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> But I don't think this negates the fundamental truth of my core  
> position here: this kind of app, perhaps with additional  
> infrastructure improvement, is the wave of the future. Rev  
> developers and RunRev itself need to be positioned to play an  
> appropriate role in this new universe or get run over.



From livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Nov 13 16:22:04 2005
From: livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 21:22:04 +0000
Subject: Limitations of 'click'?
Message-ID: <C233511E-06C6-4F0E-973A-910D940C3BF5@blueyonder.co.uk>

I'm trying to traverse a set of fields whose names and numbers I  
don't reliably know. In fact my plan is to rename them systematically  
by visiting each one in turn. What I do know is their locations (they  
form a grid to which the names will be related). I thought I could  
move along the grid, storing the coordinates of the next field in  
line in say myNewLoc, and then execute at each iteration:

  click at myNewLoc

or whatever. I can do this, and I am sure that I am clicking on an  
open field, but this action doesn't seem to set either the clickField  
or the selectedField, nor send an 'openField' message, so I can't  
then operate on the field I've clicked on. In fact I find the  
clickField to be empty and the selectedField to be a field which  
clearly isn't selected. According to the RR docs, the 'click' command  
acts as a mouse click, which would AFAIK set both these, so I must be  
doing something wrong. Can anybody suggest what?

TIA

Graham



------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
---
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 13 18:59:21 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 15:59:21 -0800
Subject: scrolling to a line
In-Reply-To: <605CFED3-405C-4D88-9FB4-49F1F515EC45@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <BF9D1359.3064B%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Method result is that every character has at least one line
1. you could start with A-Z on successive lines, sort, then retain only
those letters whose next line is not that char.
2. put char 1 of each line into firstCharList; if {a-z} is not in
firstCharList, then append it; finally sort, thus all characters are present
in alphabetical order.  Locating a single line with a single character = no
other entries.
Albert Hall
Auditorium
B - null, empty, nada, bupkis, we recommend backspacing now
Concert in the Park
Dolby Theater

HTH

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 11/13/05 12:29 PM, "Charles Hartman" <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu>
wrote:
>> The second one, if applicable, it jumps to the line starting with
>> the next best choice before the missing line... That way you see it's
>missing.
> 
> That's the one I'm finding elusive
> 
>> Beeping is annoying... I'd rather have the hilite flash or something
>> quiet...
> 
> Yes, nothing I build beeps.




From Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk  Sun Nov 13 19:19:36 2005
From: Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk (Kresten Bjerg)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 01:19:36 +0100
Subject: How can I print all parts of oversize cards!?
Message-ID: <s377e63f.014@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>

Sorry, I havent learnt how to make reply to join the thread.
Been trying to follow the export snapshot idea, - but see no way to script the printing of the result,
 either as file or as a variable....print apparently only relates to cards !!!  
 Do I have to construct an extra "printbuffer-sub-stack" ,place the snapshot there,
 and script the printing from there ????? -
-somewhat of a detour, as the window is visible , and user of the standalone should stay there,
 and not be taken to such "printbuffer-substack"
 
Kresten



From mark at maseurope.net  Sun Nov 13 18:56:02 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 23:56:02 +0000
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <E4E9CC6E-6AAE-4F52-AB98-8893770FA85C@hindu.org>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>
	<187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>
	<43738E55.8020604@fourthworld.com>
	<B5612F79-C4DB-49A0-9911-16BADF368100@hindu.org>
	<B1B12725-DC2C-482A-A6B4-0E89BEAF8D47@danshafer.com>
	<E4E9CC6E-6AAE-4F52-AB98-8893770FA85C@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <9CFBF23C-85F2-49A7-999F-DDCDE2CA8B88@maseurope.net>

I have to say, I'm a little baffled about what is being discussed  
here. Is it just the idea of apps (or applets in browsers) that  
interact with remote servers in real (ish) time? Dynamic HTML or XML  
generation?


Obviously, we have these already, so what is it?


Densely,

Mark Smith


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Nov 13 20:03:41 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 19:03:41 -0600
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <B1B12725-DC2C-482A-A6B4-0E89BEAF8D47@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <BF9D3E8D.2FB35%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/13/05 2:14 PM, "Dan Shafer" <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:

I've stayed out of this conversation because good points have been made all
around. 

Personally I think the issue is just how sure one is of the future... I
would be willing

> But I don't think this negates the fundamental truth of my core
> position here: this kind of app, perhaps with additional
> infrastructure improvement, is the wave of the future. Rev developers
> and RunRev itself need to be positioned to play an appropriate role
> in this new universe or get run over.

Personally my feeling is that this *could be* the wave of the future, and so
we should be keeping close tabs on it as the future pans out, and for those
of us that see this as more inevitable, I'd suggest finding a good niche to
add value. And for those us that see this as more "flavor of the week", we
can at least be cognizant of the technology and watch closely how it
progresses.

Just my 2 cents,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 20:32:17 2005
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 09:32:17 +0800
Subject: frappr map
In-Reply-To: <C8600AAD-EBB3-495C-B79F-67352B1B35BB@easynet.fr>
References: <20051112022404.6D1058252C0@mail.runrev.com>
	<7F09F8D5-40FF-4FB4-A65F-AC91CCC2A69E@easynet.fr>
	<C19E2B59-0EEB-4199-817A-86FA71B7531A@openpartnership.net>
	<C8600AAD-EBB3-495C-B79F-67352B1B35BB@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <f73a98160511131732p27d3bb01h4ba51b60d5a4407d@mail.gmail.com>

Can't get this to work with Firefox and X.4.3.
The map at the home page is visible (I guess it is a screen shot) but it
doesn't matter which group I visit or what map I use (map,satellite,hybrid)
it doesn't appear. Also no photo's whether tag or thumbnail come up. The
tagline though does appear in the space where the map should be, and a box
for the photo, but only the text appears.

Works fine in Safari - but I prefer to use Firefox.

Any ideas?

Thanks


From christophergioia64 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 13 20:45:32 2005
From: christophergioia64 at yahoo.com (Christopher Gioia)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 17:45:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <20051114014532.91883.qmail@web33206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

i want to unsuscribe
 

		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.  

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Nov 13 20:50:43 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 19:50:43 -0600
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <20051114014532.91883.qmail@web33206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BF9D4993.2FB3F%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/13/05 7:45 PM, "Christopher Gioia" <christophergioia64 at yahoo.com>
wrote:

> i want to unsuscribe

Then do what the footer says:

> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 22:05:15 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 13:05:15 +1000
Subject: kwote
In-Reply-To: <EC3EB288-0248-47B0-A7FD-4B208F73F1CC@openpartnership.net>
References: <BF990457.24AF5%scott@tactilemedia.com>
	<4373C81F.60400@fourthworld.com>
	<FC37B89F-1CDB-4B53-97F4-3FB0CD35D53C@canelasoftware.com>
	<9184ecebbab2ff7886c3caa5e6d707e6@together.net>
	<75BBF947-53C5-4EFE-8AE6-3EAEB4132C66@openpartnership.net>
	<f99b52860511101917o9ab4ec9n70a70de61065f982@mail.gmail.com>
	<B619E7DF-A107-4649-A85A-6C2CE6D48B50@openpartnership.net>
	<f99b52860511111429tdb9ea8aq55c55bedfc4c5bf4@mail.gmail.com>
	<EC3EB288-0248-47B0-A7FD-4B208F73F1CC@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511131905j376fad05xc95a684ae9625a30@mail.gmail.com>

> Well, I need to do it - it's one of the script processing functions I
> haven't written:
>
> function script_Inline someScript, functionCalled
>      -- take the function replace the call with transcript code
> extracted from the text of the functionCalled
>      return newScript
> end script_Inline
>
> function script_ReplaceFunctionCall someScript, functionCallName,
> newFunctionCallName
>      -- take the function replace the call with the name of the new
> function
>      return newScript
> end script_ReplaceFunctionCall
>
> function script_ReNameFunction someScript, functionCallName,
> newFunctionCallName
>      -- take the script
>      -- rename the function
>      -- then replace the function calls with the name of the new
> function
>      return newScript
> end script_ReNameFunction
>

Your 2nd & 3rd functions can be done using Rev's Find & Replace. So
you only need to concentrate on #1.

Sarah


From stephenmcnutt at mac.com  Sun Nov 13 22:14:18 2005
From: stephenmcnutt at mac.com (Stephen Paul McNutt)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:14:18 -0500
Subject: Why doesn't this script work?
Message-ID: <6E83B7C2-6A8D-4EFC-8043-FA13F74F0AE6@mac.com>

Here's a script I use to set the defaultFolder property for a  
standalone.  The part for OSX works perfectly, but the part for Win32  
doesn't.  I've placed all those answer commands in there to check  
variable and property values as I go.

local ldefaultFolder
     if the environment <> "development" then
       answer the platform
       answer the defaultFolder
       if the platform = "MacOS" then
         put defaultFolder into ldefaultFolder
         put "/Classroom Quizshow.app/Contents/MacOS" after  
ldefaultFolder
         set the defaultFolder to ldefaultFolder
         answer the defaultFolder
       end if
       if the platform = "Win32" then
         put defaultFolder into ldefaultFolder
         put "/CQdata" after ldefaultFolder
         answer ldefaultFolder
         set the defaultFolder to ldefaultFolder
         answer the defaultFolder
       end if
     end if

Note that the answer command 5 lines from the bottom returns the name  
of the correct folder I'm trying to make the defaultFolder, but the  
answer command 3 lines from the bottom returns the same thing minus "/ 
CQdata".  What the heck?  I even copied "ldefaultFolder" in the 5th  
line from the bottom and pasted it over the same word in the 4th line  
from the bottom just to make doubly sure I didn't have a typo.   
Again, the MacOS part works as expected and produced the proper  
defaultFolder property value for the OS X standalone.

From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Sun Nov 13 22:37:56 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 13:37:56 +1000
Subject: Why doesn't this script work?
In-Reply-To: <6E83B7C2-6A8D-4EFC-8043-FA13F74F0AE6@mac.com>
References: <6E83B7C2-6A8D-4EFC-8043-FA13F74F0AE6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511131937n2c3fcc73yd3af433daabe8547@mail.gmail.com>

> local ldefaultFolder
>      if the environment <> "development" then
>        answer the platform
>        answer the defaultFolder
>        if the platform = "MacOS" then
>          put defaultFolder into ldefaultFolder
>          put "/Classroom Quizshow.app/Contents/MacOS" after
> ldefaultFolder
>          set the defaultFolder to ldefaultFolder
>          answer the defaultFolder
>        end if
>        if the platform = "Win32" then
>          put defaultFolder into ldefaultFolder
>          put "/CQdata" after ldefaultFolder
>          answer ldefaultFolder
>          set the defaultFolder to ldefaultFolder
>          answer the defaultFolder
>        end if
>      end if
>
> Note that the answer command 5 lines from the bottom returns the name
> of the correct folder I'm trying to make the defaultFolder, but the
> answer command 3 lines from the bottom returns the same thing minus "/
> CQdata".  What the heck?  I even copied "ldefaultFolder" in the 5th
> line from the bottom and pasted it over the same word in the 4th line
> from the bottom just to make doubly sure I didn't have a typo.
> Again, the MacOS part works as expected and produced the proper
> defaultFolder property value for the OS X standalone.

I have no idea why this isn't working, but I would check "the result"
after setting the defaultFolder in case that gives you any clues.

Cheers,
Sarah


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Nov 13 22:40:05 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 21:40:05 -0600
Subject: scrolling to a line
In-Reply-To: <43778D19.30900@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <12537E4C-5971-4DF2-9A47-72FD01474E4A@conncoll.edu>
	<43778D19.30900@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <43780715.8020601@hyperactivesw.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:
> Charles Hartman wrote:
> 
>> I've modified Xavier's modification of my modification of  
>> (somebody's??) code to search incrementally in a sorted list field. 
> 
> 
> Could it have been the one I posted about two years ago? I sent this to 
> the list:
> 
> 
> local lUserKeys, lOldTicks
> on keyDown  whichKey -- select from keyboard
>   -- J. Landman Gay, 1990, modified for Revolution: 2003
>   if (the selectedField is not "") or (charToNum(whichKey) is among the 
> items of "28,29,30,31") -- arrow keys
>   then pass keyDown
>   if the ticks - lOldTicks > 60 then put "" into lUserKeys
>   put whichKey after lUserKeys
>   put return & fld "myField" & return into tListText
>   get lineoffset(cr&lUserKeys,tListText)
>   if it > 0 then set the hilitedline of fld "myField" to it
>   put the ticks into lOldTicks
> end keyDown
> 
>> But it doesn't solve one problem: suppose the user starts typing a
> 
>  > string that doesn't appear in the list?
> 
> The easiest thing would be to just add a beep in this case, but if I 
> have time today I'll see if I can rewrite it to accomodate.
> 

Is this closer? (Watch for line wrap):

local lUserKeys, lOldTicks

on keyDown  whichKey -- select from keyboard
   -- J. Landman Gay, 1990, modified for Revolution: 2003,
   -- modifed for fuzzy selections 2005
   if (the selectedField is not "") or (charToNum(whichKey) is among the 
items of "28,29,30,31") -- arrow keys
   then pass keyDown
   if the ticks - lOldTicks > 60 then put "" into lUserKeys
   put whichKey after lUserKeys
   put return & fld 1 & return into tListText
   get lineoffset(cr&lUserKeys,tListText)
   if it = 0 and the number of chars in lUserKeys = 1 then
     repeat until lineoffset(cr&lUserKeys,tListText) > 0
       put charToNum(lUserKeys)+1 into tASCII
       if tASCII > 122 then exit repeat -- maximum key is "Z"; adjust if 
desired
       put numToChar(tASCII) into lUserKeys
       get lineoffset(cr&lUserKeys,tListText)
     end repeat
     if it = 0 then get the number of lines in fld 1
   end if
   if it = 0 then get the hilitedline of fld 1 -- multi-char string with 
no match; leave alone
   set the hilitedline of fld 1 to it
   put the ticks into lOldTicks
end keyDown

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sun Nov 13 22:57:59 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:57:59 -0500
Subject: scrolling to a line
In-Reply-To: <43780715.8020601@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <12537E4C-5971-4DF2-9A47-72FD01474E4A@conncoll.edu>
	<43778D19.30900@hyperactivesw.com>
	<43780715.8020601@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <98E416C4-0A1D-4618-89C7-895AE981ED43@conncoll.edu>

Hmm! I think that might do it. Thanks!

I thought of that general approach (hadn't gotten the details worked  
out) -- but I guess I was thinking there might be a way to, in  
effect, intervene in the operations of lineOffset: to tell it, no no  
you just went one too far . . . Silly, I suppose. I could write a  
binary-search substitute for lineOffset . . . That's sillier. I think  
you probably have the best approach.

Thanks again. I'll try it out tomorrow.

Charles Hartman

On Nov 13, 2005, at 10:40 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> J. Landman Gay wrote:
>> Charles Hartman wrote:
>>> I've modified Xavier's modification of my modification of   
>>> (somebody's??) code to search incrementally in a sorted list field.
>> Could it have been the one I posted about two years ago? I sent  
>> this to the list:
>> local lUserKeys, lOldTicks
>> on keyDown  whichKey -- select from keyboard
>>   -- J. Landman Gay, 1990, modified for Revolution: 2003
>>   if (the selectedField is not "") or (charToNum(whichKey) is  
>> among the items of "28,29,30,31") -- arrow keys
>>   then pass keyDown
>>   if the ticks - lOldTicks > 60 then put "" into lUserKeys
>>   put whichKey after lUserKeys
>>   put return & fld "myField" & return into tListText
>>   get lineoffset(cr&lUserKeys,tListText)
>>   if it > 0 then set the hilitedline of fld "myField" to it
>>   put the ticks into lOldTicks
>> end keyDown
>>> But it doesn't solve one problem: suppose the user starts typing a
>>  > string that doesn't appear in the list?
>> The easiest thing would be to just add a beep in this case, but if  
>> I have time today I'll see if I can rewrite it to accomodate.
>
> Is this closer? (Watch for line wrap):
>
> local lUserKeys, lOldTicks
>
> on keyDown  whichKey -- select from keyboard
>   -- J. Landman Gay, 1990, modified for Revolution: 2003,
>   -- modifed for fuzzy selections 2005
>   if (the selectedField is not "") or (charToNum(whichKey) is among  
> the items of "28,29,30,31") -- arrow keys
>   then pass keyDown
>   if the ticks - lOldTicks > 60 then put "" into lUserKeys
>   put whichKey after lUserKeys
>   put return & fld 1 & return into tListText
>   get lineoffset(cr&lUserKeys,tListText)
>   if it = 0 and the number of chars in lUserKeys = 1 then
>     repeat until lineoffset(cr&lUserKeys,tListText) > 0
>       put charToNum(lUserKeys)+1 into tASCII
>       if tASCII > 122 then exit repeat -- maximum key is "Z";  
> adjust if desired
>       put numToChar(tASCII) into lUserKeys
>       get lineoffset(cr&lUserKeys,tListText)
>     end repeat
>     if it = 0 then get the number of lines in fld 1
>   end if
>   if it = 0 then get the hilitedline of fld 1 -- multi-char string  
> with no match; leave alone
>   set the hilitedline of fld 1 to it
>   put the ticks into lOldTicks
> end keyDown
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From katir at hindu.org  Sun Nov 13 23:36:33 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:36:33 -1000
Subject: Purge Loop--Destroy Stack no working?
Message-ID: <5AA49A88-7491-40DA-AF91-F7EECC3BEAAC@hindu.org>

The past few days REv is repeatedly asking me if I want to purge a  
stack in memory with the same name... Most of my stacks have

on closestack
    save this stack
end close stack

And for some reason, if Constellation is running, this puts me into  
an infinite loop where Rev is unable to save (because there is a  
stack in memory with the same name) ... I click save or purge or  
cancel, it doesn't matter... the msg comes right back..

if I don't boot constellation, I don't get into a loop but still  
though all my stacks are set to Destroy on close, rev keeps asking to  
purge a previously closed stack if I open another which has the same  
name.

I'm thinking something has been corrupted or a custom prop is "stuck"  
somewhere that thinks these stacks are in memory when they or not, or  
they are not being destroyed when they should be... any ideas?   
Rebooting Rev does not change the behavior.

Sivakatirswami





From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Nov 13 23:47:03 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:47:03 -0600
Subject: How can I print all parts of oversize cards!?
In-Reply-To: <s377e63f.014@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>
References: <s377e63f.014@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>
Message-ID: <437816C7.9010206@hyperactivesw.com>

Kresten Bjerg wrote:
> Sorry, I havent learnt how to make reply to join the thread.
> Been trying to follow the export snapshot idea, - but see no way to script the printing of the result,
>  either as file or as a variable....print apparently only relates to cards !!!  

Yes, that's right.

>  Do I have to construct an extra "printbuffer-sub-stack" ,place the snapshot there,
>  and script the printing from there ????? -

That's how printing is usually done, right. If your wide printout is all 
on one single card, then I'm not sure why it won't print. You should be 
able to print a wide card just using the "print card" command. It will 
tile onto multiple pages if it is too wide or long for the paper.

What OS are you using? OS X has a maximum image size it can handle, but 
I don't know if that applies to card printing.

> -somewhat of a detour, as the window is visible , and user of the standalone should stay there,
>  and not be taken to such "printbuffer-substack"

You can print hidden stacks, that isn't a problem. You can open your 
buffer stack invisibly, do whatever setup you need, print it, and close 
it, and the user won't see anything happen.

But I don't think I understand what your original stack looks like. If 
it is all one very wide window, it should print correctly without any 
special work. Are you trying to print three different windows at once? 
If so, then yes, importing 3 snapshots to a buffer stack and then 
printing the buffer's card should work.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Nov 13 23:52:59 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:52:59 -0600
Subject: Why doesn't this script work?
In-Reply-To: <6E83B7C2-6A8D-4EFC-8043-FA13F74F0AE6@mac.com>
References: <6E83B7C2-6A8D-4EFC-8043-FA13F74F0AE6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <4378182B.3070301@hyperactivesw.com>

Stephen Paul McNutt wrote:
> Here's a script I use to set the defaultFolder property for a  
> standalone.  The part for OSX works perfectly, but the part for Win32  
> doesn't.  I've placed all those answer commands in there to check  
> variable and property values as I go.
> 
> local ldefaultFolder
>     if the environment <> "development" then
>       answer the platform
>       answer the defaultFolder
>       if the platform = "MacOS" then
>         put defaultFolder into ldefaultFolder
>         put "/Classroom Quizshow.app/Contents/MacOS" after  ldefaultFolder
>         set the defaultFolder to ldefaultFolder
>         answer the defaultFolder
>       end if
>       if the platform = "Win32" then
>         put defaultFolder into ldefaultFolder
>         put "/CQdata" after ldefaultFolder
>         answer ldefaultFolder
>         set the defaultFolder to ldefaultFolder
>         answer the defaultFolder
>       end if
>     end if
> 
> Note that the answer command 5 lines from the bottom returns the name  
> of the correct folder I'm trying to make the defaultFolder, but the  
> answer command 3 lines from the bottom returns the same thing minus "/ 
> CQdata".  What the heck?  I even copied "ldefaultFolder" in the 5th  
> line from the bottom and pasted it over the same word in the 4th line  
> from the bottom just to make doubly sure I didn't have a typo.   Again, 
> the MacOS part works as expected and produced the proper  defaultFolder 
> property value for the OS X standalone.


I don't see anything wrong with the script. Does the "/CQData" folder 
already exist? If not, you'll have to create it first.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Nov 14 01:42:31 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 00:42:31 -0600
Subject: Scripting conference on Standalones - reposted with log
Message-ID: <437831D7.3060001@hyperactivesw.com>

Mark Wieder's excellent scripting conference on Standalones has been 
re-uploaded to the web site with its conference chat log included. You 
can download it here:

<http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences>

This conference stimulated one of the longest discussions we've had to 
date, and the online presentation contains a great deal of extra 
information that was not in the original stack. It's worth a download 
and a look.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From graham.samuel at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Nov 14 02:12:38 2005
From: graham.samuel at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Samuel)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 07:12:38 +0000
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
Message-ID: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 23:56:02 +0000, Mark Smith <mark at maseurope.net>  
wrote:

> I have to say, I'm a little baffled about what is being discussed
> here. Is it just the idea of apps (or applets in browsers) that
> interact with remote servers in real (ish) time? Dynamic HTML or XML
> generation?
>
>
> Obviously, we have these already, so what is it?

Phew! Someone else who is as bamboozled as I am. I had to look up  
AJAX on Google just to get the idea at all, which shows that I live  
in a poorer world informationally speaking than many members of this  
list. I want to know, are we looking at a 'paradigm shift' or an  
addition to the spectrum of possible app technologies or what? Where  
does an app like Google Earth (of which frappr is said to be a  
relation - but it works on Macs, yippee!) belong in this? Are there  
any solid gold apps already existing which exemplify what Dan is  
talking about, or is it all in the future?

 From the ranks of the puzzled

Graham

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
---
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France



From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Nov 14 03:18:51 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 02:18:51 -0600
Subject: Why doesn't this script work?
In-Reply-To: <6E83B7C2-6A8D-4EFC-8043-FA13F74F0AE6@mac.com>
References: <6E83B7C2-6A8D-4EFC-8043-FA13F74F0AE6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <4378486B.7090101@chipp.com>

Stephen,

A couple of points.

1) If you're running inside of Rev, the defaultFolder by default points 
to the folder the revEngine is working in. Of course, any number of 
things can change the defaultFolder in the IDE, including plugins, other 
stacks, etc. If you are wanting the /CQdata folder to be where the 
finished app is stored then I would suggest looking at the 'address' 
function and parse that to find the original app folder.

2) Just a suggestion. I typically use locals 'script wide' rather than 
handler wide. For handler vars, I use the prefix 't' (temporary). I 
think Richard Gaskin has a good article on script syntax if you're 
interestd. Check out his www.fourthworld.com website.

best,

Chipp



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Nov 14 05:03:29 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 11:03:29 +0100
Subject: Why doesn't this script work?
In-Reply-To: <6E83B7C2-6A8D-4EFC-8043-FA13F74F0AE6@mac.com>
References: <6E83B7C2-6A8D-4EFC-8043-FA13F74F0AE6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <6AC0F5AE-A855-42BE-B7F0-1A374F475E05@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Stephen,

If, as I think, you want to get the path to the folder of your  
standalone, just get its fileName property:

function AppFolderPath
   set the itemDel to slash
   return item 1 to -2 of the fileName of this stack
end AppFolderPath

And use it to access other folders:

put AppFolderPath() into tPath
set the itemDel to slash
put <folder name>  into item - 3 to -1 of tPath

Will return the right path to a folder placed at the root of the OS X  
bundle folder.
You will build another code for Windows from AppFolderPath()  
according to the folders architecture you chose :-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 14 nov. 05 ? 04:14, Stephen Paul McNutt a ?crit :

> Here's a script I use to set the defaultFolder property for a  
> standalone.  The part for OSX works perfectly, but the part for  
> Win32 doesn't.  I've placed all those answer commands in there to  
> check variable and property values as I go.
>
> local ldefaultFolder
>     if the environment <> "development" then
>       answer the platform
>       answer the defaultFolder
>       if the platform = "MacOS" then
>         put defaultFolder into ldefaultFolder
>         put "/Classroom Quizshow.app/Contents/MacOS" after  
> ldefaultFolder
>         set the defaultFolder to ldefaultFolder
>         answer the defaultFolder
>       end if
>       if the platform = "Win32" then
>         put defaultFolder into ldefaultFolder
>         put "/CQdata" after ldefaultFolder
>         answer ldefaultFolder
>         set the defaultFolder to ldefaultFolder
>         answer the defaultFolder
>       end if
>     end if
>
> Note that the answer command 5 lines from the bottom returns the  
> name of the correct folder I'm trying to make the defaultFolder,  
> but the answer command 3 lines from the bottom returns the same  
> thing minus "/CQdata".  What the heck?  I even copied  
> "ldefaultFolder" in the 5th line from the bottom and pasted it over  
> the same word in the 4th line from the bottom just to make doubly  
> sure I didn't have a typo.  Again, the MacOS part works as expected  
> and produced the proper defaultFolder property value for the OS X  
> standalone.

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From Cubist at aol.com  Mon Nov 14 05:06:39 2005
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 05:06:39 EST
Subject: Limitations of 'click'?
Message-ID: <23c.13160b3.30a9bbaf@aol.com>

sez livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk:
>I'm trying to traverse a set of fields whose names and numbers I  
>don't reliably know. In fact my plan is to rename them systematically 
>by visiting each one in turn. What I do know is their locations (they 
>form a grid to which the names will be related). I thought I could  
>move along the grid, storing the coordinates of the next field in  
>line in say myNewLoc, and then execute at each iteration:
>
>  click at myNewLoc
>
>or whatever. I can do this, and I am sure that I am clicking on an  
>open field, but this action doesn't seem to set either the clickField 
>or the selectedField, nor send an 'openField' message, so I can't  
>then operate on the field I've clicked on. In fact I find the  
>clickField to be empty and the selectedField to be a field which  
>clearly isn't selected. According to the RR docs, the 'click' command 
>acts as a mouse click, which would AFAIK set both these, so I must be 
>doing something wrong. Can anybody suggest what?
   Given that you absolutely *do* know the locations of the fields in 
question, something like this might do the job for you:

  put "Field List" into ListOFieldz
  repeat with K1 = 1 to the number of fields
    put return & (the short name of field K1 & "," & the loc of field K1) 
after ListOFieldz
  end repeat
  delete line 1 of ListOFieldz

  # okay, we got all the fields. now let's sort them by location
  sort lines numeric of ListOFieldz by item 3 of each
  sort lines numeric of ListOFieldz by item 2 of each

  # right here is a good place to delete unwanted fields,
  #   based on the locations thereof

  # and, moving right along...
  repeat for each line LL in ListOFieldz
    put item 1 of LL into DisFld
    DoWhateverYouWantTo DisFld
  end repeat

   Hope this helps.


From Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk  Mon Nov 14 05:12:32 2005
From: Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk (Kresten Bjerg)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 11:12:32 +0100
Subject: How can I print all parts of oversize
	cards!?&In-Reply-To=s377e63f.014@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK
Message-ID: <s3787129.056@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>

Thank you so much for the confirmation of the print-buffer-substack idea. I think my first posting explained
,but here again: It is an electronic diary stack, 3x3 screens wide (3072 x 2304).
 Each day has a card, user will mostly stay with a main window, but has 8 other parallel windows, 
for various purposes. (Others have recommended splitting the whole thing up in 9 substacks,
 but our unorthodox solution has considerable advantages,-except for this unexpected limitation of print-function)
We are developing on Mac OS 10.3.9, - but this should not be relevant. 
The standalones shall be for all platforms (and freeware!).
It would of course be very nice, if you could sketch the scripting you suggest, for we are not professionals.
 .... With an invisible print-buffer-substack, with only one card, where the exported snapshot 
should be eliminated after printing, so it can be used any day for all windows on the newest card, 
- as the script in my first posting works for the first 6 windows
Kresten
 
kresten.bjerg at psy.ku.dk       www.psy.ku.dk/bjerg  



From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Mon Nov 14 07:13:38 2005
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 06:13:38 -0600
Subject: Purge Loop--Destroy Stack no working?
In-Reply-To: <5AA49A88-7491-40DA-AF91-F7EECC3BEAAC@hindu.org>
References: <5AA49A88-7491-40DA-AF91-F7EECC3BEAAC@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <4832E76C-91A3-4B72-A13C-2BDC13E67FCA@daniels-mara.com>

Sivakatirswami,

I thought about your problem so more and have the following  
observations, questions and recommendations.

I don't think the problem is with the release version of  
Constellation you are using but, it is possible that there is a  
problem with one of Constellation's pre-release "buddies", Object  
Gadget.

Do you have Object Gadget open when this is happening? There is a  
known issue with Object Gadget where it verifies its list and  
inadvertently keeps the stacks in memory because it likes to test  
every object's parent stack by its long stack name to see if it  
exists. Please test without Object Gadget and see if it makes any  
difference.

Object Gadget it not released software, and it has known issues. For  
this reason, I only use Object Gadget when I need it for something  
and keep it close if I don't need it--and I have no difficulties with  
it. That's also why it is discounted so that it costs about two  
dollars right now. Once we get Object Gadget released, this will no  
longer be an issue (and the discounted price will go away, too).

Please let me know how your test without Object Gadget goes--or how  
you do with discretionary use of it as indicated above.

It would seem unlikely to me that your stacks are corrupted. My  
experience with corrupted stacks usually means the stack will not  
open and if it does it appears to have extremely sluggish behavior  
and slows down the IDE noticeably.

Also, all of the products we sell are pretty stingy with doling out  
custom properties and there are preferences to prevent them from  
being used at all. I don't believe custom props would cause your  
problem, in any case.

There are many people (I am becoming one) who prefer to store all  
data outside the stack--in a text file using XML or the like. Like  
others, when saving on close in the IDE, if something "unexpected"  
happens with the IDE, it can affect the process of saving and THEN  
corruption can take place. I haven't had problems with explicit  
saving in the IDE, whereas I have had problems with the implicit save  
you noted in your closeStack handler.

Best,

Jerry

http://www.daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm
Scripts and properties in a tabbed editor!

On Nov 13, 2005, at 10:36 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote:

> The past few days REv is repeatedly asking me if I want to purge a  
> stack in memory with the same name... Most of my stacks have
>
> on closestack
>    save this stack
> end close stack
>
> And for some reason, if Constellation is running, this puts me into  
> an infinite loop where Rev is unable to save (because there is a  
> stack in memory with the same name) ... I click save or purge or  
> cancel, it doesn't matter... the msg comes right back..
>
> if I don't boot constellation, I don't get into a loop but still  
> though all my stacks are set to Destroy on close, rev keeps asking  
> to purge a previously closed stack if I open another which has the  
> same name.
>
> I'm thinking something has been corrupted or a custom prop is  
> "stuck" somewhere that thinks these stacks are in memory when they  
> or not, or they are not being destroyed when they should be... any  
> ideas?  Rebooting Rev does not change the behavior.
>
> Sivakatirswami
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Mon Nov 14 09:53:13 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 15:53:13 +0100
Subject: Serious Engine annoyance with is a folder on Win32...
In-Reply-To: <4378486B.7090101@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <OF023634EC.4282B94C-ONC12570B9.004D7240-C12570B9.0051C9FE@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi everyone,

I've been hit thousands of times and 
finally took the matter into my own hands.

Yet it's so simple i can't believe the finding...

It almost drove me up the wall when i had to click 500 times "continue"...
And i couldn't quit (unsaved work) or stop the process...

Testing grounds: 
The autoloader of TAOO 
1 server with Win2003, MC 2.5
1 server with Win2003, MC 2.6.6 or Rev 2.6.1 (same engine).

Im scanning folders for a file. There a few folders that belong to
one server or the other, some of which do not exist on the other 
system.

So i scan the paths list to find the right folders, eliminate the
non-existing. But I kept getting this dialog: "there is no Disk in 
the drive. Please insert a disk into drife F:." with buttons
(cancel)(try again)(continue).

Cancel doesn't stop anything (bogus button), try again repeats
the error message (not useful) and continue, well, continues 
i guess like the cancel button.

Searching i found that the error came from the function

is folder folderpath.

If i ask:
put is folder "r:" (which doesn't exist) i get false.
put is folder "f:" (which exists) i get true
put is folder "f:/test" which doesn't exists i get that dialog + false

The dialog doesn't return any result or cancel anything.

Verified with versions 2.5 - 2.6.6 of MC or rev engine too without
any mods in the install. 

I'll test this on XP later but if MC 2.5 and up to 2.6.6 do this, im
thinking bugzilla no matter what version.

Can anyone tell me if this also happens on Macs? Linux? 
Can another PC user confirm this?

Can ANYONE tell me how to turn that programmed horror and crap off?

Thanks in advance
Xavier






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From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Mon Nov 14 10:21:35 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Wouter)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 16:21:35 +0100
Subject: problem with grouped field
Message-ID: <F2C2EB84-B4B6-4113-9A0D-5800DD2B4A0B@scarlet.be>

Hi all,

I encountered some problems with grouped fields with RR 2.6.1 (but  
also in former versions) on OS X 10.4.1

1.  problem with scroll of group starting at 32779, field disappears  
(at 32778 it still shows)), scroll is reset at zero.
But clicking where the field is supposed to be reveals some lines.
2.  problem with height of field in group if  >  65535.
The height of the field is reset to zero and starts growing again  
when more lines are added.

Recipe:
ingredients:
- 1 field (no vScroll)  in a group (with vScroll)
- 2 buttons
- 2 scripts, one for each button:

on mouseUp
   put "" into fld 1
   repeat with i = 1 to 3200
     put i & cr after tList
   end repeat
   put tList into fld 1
   set the height of fld 1 to the formattedheight of fld 1
   set the rect of grp 1 to 10,10,138,bottom of this cd - 50
   put 32760 into a ### approximation of start of problem
   repeat
     add 1 to a
     set the scroll of grp 1 to a
     put the scroll of grp 1 into b
     put a & cr & b
     if a > b then exit repeat
     wait 100 millisecs with messages
     if the commandkey is down or the controlkey is down then exit  
repeat
   end repeat
end mouseUp

on mouseUp
   put "" into fld 1
   repeat with i = 1 to 65400 div the effective textheight of fld 1
     put i & cr after tList
   end repeat
   put tList into fld 1
   set the height of fld 1 to the formattedheight of fld 1
   set the rect of grp 1 to 10,10,138,bottom of this cd - 50
   repeat
     add 1 to i
     put i & cr after fld 1
     put the formattedheight of fld 1 into a
     set the height of fld 1 to a
     put the height of fld 1 into b
     set the rect of grp 1 to 10,10,138,bottom of this cd - 50
     put  i & cr & a & cr & b
     lock screen
     unlock screen
     if a > b then exit repeat
     if  the commandkey is down or the controlkey is down then exit  
repeat
   end repeat
end mouseUp

beware of mail line wraps

I wanted to ask if someone could confirm this and if this is also the  
case on other platforms.
TIA,

Wouter


From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Nov 14 10:47:29 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 07:47:29 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <B1B12725-DC2C-482A-A6B4-0E89BEAF8D47@danshafer.com>
References: <FE4F9031-18F1-4F30-8B08-769875AFB0C9@danshafer.com>
	<43728B2D.5000205@fourthworld.com>
	<236FAC53-4AA9-48EB-A92E-20B1375D5BE6@mac.com>
	<E698F83C-B783-489B-A34D-521CE2F2B5B4@danshafer.com>
	<7.0.0.10.1.20051110075333.019cea90@pon.net>
	<187CDDE3-BEA4-4580-84C1-C61B300A3705@mac.com>
	<43738E55.8020604@fourthworld.com>
	<B5612F79-C4DB-49A0-9911-16BADF368100@hindu.org>
	<B1B12725-DC2C-482A-A6B4-0E89BEAF8D47@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.10.1.20051114073359.019ca9e0@pon.net>

Dan,

>I don't think this negates the fundamental truth of my core
>position here: this kind of app, perhaps with additional
>infrastructure improvement, is the wave of the future

I don't doubt your enthusiasm; but I do believe you downplay the 
desire of businesses (and perhaps individuals) to keep sensitive, 
proprietary data in-house.

Another comment is this:  I can't count the number of "waves of the 
future" (eg: "distributed processing", multiple processors) that 
never hit the real-world beaches of most computer users.  So many of 
the new concepts don't seem to be realized outside of a limited 
number of very large organizations or specialized markets.

My current wave of the future is the Tablet PC, with or without desktop apps.

Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
  Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

  from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) 



From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Nov 14 10:58:44 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 07:58:44 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <BF9D3E8D.2FB35%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <B1B12725-DC2C-482A-A6B4-0E89BEAF8D47@danshafer.com>
	<BF9D3E8D.2FB35%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.10.1.20051114075404.019d6870@pon.net>

Ken, et al:

>Personally my feeling is that this *could be* the wave of the future, and so
>we should be keeping close tabs on it as the future pans out, and for those
>of us that see this as more inevitable, I'd suggest finding a good niche to
>add value. And for those us that see this as more "flavor of the week", we
>can at least be cognizant of the technology and watch closely how it
>progresses.

Wave of the future or flavor of the week?  Here's a question to help 
you decide:

How comfortable would you feel if all your Revolution source code and 
stack components were stored on somebody else's computer at some site 
remote from you?

Rob Cozens, CCW
Serendipity Software Company

Vive R Revolution! 



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Nov 14 11:00:45 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 17:00:45 +0100
Subject: problem with grouped field
In-Reply-To: <F2C2EB84-B4B6-4113-9A0D-5800DD2B4A0B@scarlet.be>
References: <F2C2EB84-B4B6-4113-9A0D-5800DD2B4A0B@scarlet.be>
Message-ID: <0EE12D89-2855-4EEC-A72B-B69CE52CDF92@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Wouter,

Seem to be related to some limitation: you say 32778 and 65535  but I  
would think it's 32768 (2^15) and 65566 (2^16).
See the Help/Quick Reference Guides/Memory and Limits.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 14 nov. 05 ? 16:21, Wouter a ?crit :

> Hi all,
>
> I encountered some problems with grouped fields with RR 2.6.1 (but  
> also in former versions) on OS X 10.4.1
>
> 1.  problem with scroll of group starting at 32779, field  
> disappears (at 32778 it still shows)), scroll is reset at zero.
> But clicking where the field is supposed to be reveals some lines.
> 2.  problem with height of field in group if  >  65535.
> The height of the field is reset to zero and starts growing again  
> when more lines are added.
>
> Recipe:
> ingredients:
> - 1 field (no vScroll)  in a group (with vScroll)
> - 2 buttons
> - 2 scripts, one for each button:
>
> on mouseUp
>   put "" into fld 1
>   repeat with i = 1 to 3200
>     put i & cr after tList
>   end repeat
>   put tList into fld 1
>   set the height of fld 1 to the formattedheight of fld 1
>   set the rect of grp 1 to 10,10,138,bottom of this cd - 50
>   put 32760 into a ### approximation of start of problem
>   repeat
>     add 1 to a
>     set the scroll of grp 1 to a
>     put the scroll of grp 1 into b
>     put a & cr & b
>     if a > b then exit repeat
>     wait 100 millisecs with messages
>     if the commandkey is down or the controlkey is down then exit  
> repeat
>   end repeat
> end mouseUp
>
> on mouseUp
>   put "" into fld 1
>   repeat with i = 1 to 65400 div the effective textheight of fld 1
>     put i & cr after tList
>   end repeat
>   put tList into fld 1
>   set the height of fld 1 to the formattedheight of fld 1
>   set the rect of grp 1 to 10,10,138,bottom of this cd - 50
>   repeat
>     add 1 to i
>     put i & cr after fld 1
>     put the formattedheight of fld 1 into a
>     set the height of fld 1 to a
>     put the height of fld 1 into b
>     set the rect of grp 1 to 10,10,138,bottom of this cd - 50
>     put  i & cr & a & cr & b
>     lock screen
>     unlock screen
>     if a > b then exit repeat
>     if  the commandkey is down or the controlkey is down then exit  
> repeat
>   end repeat
> end mouseUp
>
> beware of mail line wraps
>
> I wanted to ask if someone could confirm this and if this is also  
> the case on other platforms.
> TIA,
>
> Wouter

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Nov 14 11:10:05 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 17:10:05 +0100
Subject: problem with grouped field
In-Reply-To: <F2C2EB84-B4B6-4113-9A0D-5800DD2B4A0B@scarlet.be>
Message-ID: <20051114153144.3C210824F75@mail.runrev.com>

looks like a bug. I can reproduce it too (w2k).

try this instead.

use a vertical scroll bar:
 - start to endvalue = 0-32000 
 - page increments 1..

put the scrollbar right of the field as if it was the fields' 
scrollbar... Should fool anyone ;)

im still experimenting with a smooth movement (number wise...)

on scrollbardrag w
  put w
  put the height of fld 1 div the textheight of fld 1 into mylines
  put (the endvalue of me / the height of me) / (the endvalue of me /
mylines) into movementfactor
  put round(w * movementfactor) into myvalue
  repeat with x = 1 to mylines
    put myvalue + x into line x of fld 1
  end repeat
end scrollbardrag

it's not fast but it works linearly for number movement...
Alas it's not correct to get to the big numbers...

The mylines (the number of lines in the field) should increase like:

on scrollbardrag w
  put w
  put the height of fld 1 div the textheight of fld 1 into mylines
  put (the endvalue of me / the height of me) into movementfactor
  put round(w * movementfactor) into myvalue
  repeat with x = 1 to mylines
    put myvalue + x into line x of fld 1
  end repeat
end scrollbardrag

which almost gets to 32000... I'll let you find the quirks ;)

hope it's what you want... If you want the stack I made it in
let me know off list ;)

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Wouter
> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 16:22
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: problem with grouped field
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I encountered some problems with grouped fields with RR 2.6.1 
> (but also in former versions) on OS X 10.4.1
> 
> 1.  problem with scroll of group starting at 32779, field 
> disappears (at 32778 it still shows)), scroll is reset at zero.
> But clicking where the field is supposed to be reveals some lines.
> 2.  problem with height of field in group if  >  65535.
> The height of the field is reset to zero and starts growing 
> again when more lines are added.
> 
> Recipe:
> ingredients:
> - 1 field (no vScroll)  in a group (with vScroll)
> - 2 buttons
> - 2 scripts, one for each button:
> 
> on mouseUp
>    put "" into fld 1
>    repeat with i = 1 to 3200
>      put i & cr after tList
>    end repeat
>    put tList into fld 1
>    set the height of fld 1 to the formattedheight of fld 1
>    set the rect of grp 1 to 10,10,138,bottom of this cd - 50
>    put 32760 into a ### approximation of start of problem
>    repeat
>      add 1 to a
>      set the scroll of grp 1 to a
>      put the scroll of grp 1 into b
>      put a & cr & b
>      if a > b then exit repeat
>      wait 100 millisecs with messages
>      if the commandkey is down or the controlkey is down then 
> exit repeat
>    end repeat
> end mouseUp
> 
> on mouseUp
>    put "" into fld 1
>    repeat with i = 1 to 65400 div the effective textheight of fld 1
>      put i & cr after tList
>    end repeat
>    put tList into fld 1
>    set the height of fld 1 to the formattedheight of fld 1
>    set the rect of grp 1 to 10,10,138,bottom of this cd - 50
>    repeat
>      add 1 to i
>      put i & cr after fld 1
>      put the formattedheight of fld 1 into a
>      set the height of fld 1 to a
>      put the height of fld 1 into b
>      set the rect of grp 1 to 10,10,138,bottom of this cd - 50
>      put  i & cr & a & cr & b
>      lock screen
>      unlock screen
>      if a > b then exit repeat
>      if  the commandkey is down or the controlkey is down 
> then exit repeat
>    end repeat
> end mouseUp
> 
> beware of mail line wraps
> 
> I wanted to ask if someone could confirm this and if this is 
> also the case on other platforms.
> TIA,
> 
> Wouter
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Mon Nov 14 11:09:58 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 11:09:58 -0500
Subject: RevDocWikis?
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968343@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

I have been out of pocket for a couple of weeks...

Was a decision ever made regarding the RevDocWiki? Like, who is going to
host it, is Revolution moving forward on making this happen? Anything
else?


Thanks,

Jonathan



From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Mon Nov 14 11:31:05 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Wouter)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 17:31:05 +0100
Subject: problem with grouped field
In-Reply-To: <0EE12D89-2855-4EEC-A72B-B69CE52CDF92@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <F2C2EB84-B4B6-4113-9A0D-5800DD2B4A0B@scarlet.be>
	<0EE12D89-2855-4EEC-A72B-B69CE52CDF92@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <BEB7D110-8E7F-48DF-A6BE-789AF4F1CAA4@scarlet.be>


On 14 Nov 2005, at 17:00, Eric Chatonet wrote:

> Hi Wouter,
>
> Seem to be related to some limitation: you say 32778 and 65535  but  
> I would think it's 32768 (2^15) and 65566 (2^16).
> See the Help/Quick Reference Guides/Memory and Limits.
>
> Best Regards from Paris,
>
> Eric Chatonet.


Hi Eric,

It is indeed related to those numbers.
And the Docs say:
   - maximum size of an object:  Unlimited
  But nothing is mentioned about max size in a group.

So I suppose this behavior of the scroll of a group and the height of  
the field in a group are bugs.


On 14 Nov 2005, at 17:10, MisterX wrote:
> looks like a bug. I can reproduce it too (w2k).
-snip-

Thanks for confirming.

Greetings,
Wouter



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Nov 14 11:40:48 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 08:40:48 -0800
Subject: RevDocWikis?
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968343@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
References: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968343@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <4378BE10.7090509@fourthworld.com>

Lynch, Jonathan wrote:
> I have been out of pocket for a couple of weeks...
> 
> Was a decision ever made regarding the RevDocWiki? Like, who is going to
> host it, is Revolution moving forward on making this happen? Anything
> else?

The discussion has migrated to the RevDocs working group:
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RevDocs/>

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Nov 14 11:47:15 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 17:47:15 +0100
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.10.1.20051114075404.019d6870@pon.net>
Message-ID: <20051114160850.63A44825008@mail.runrev.com>

Rob,

I live this every day...

My code and stacks are on my website. Open to the public.
Those are work, are open to other admins - and given the tons
of logs, you only watch when there's an error worth looking!
 
> Wave of the future or flavor of the week?  Here's a question 
> to help you decide:

> How comfortable would you feel if all your Revolution source 
> code and stack components were stored on somebody else's 
> computer at some site remote from you?

Now, Ajax and co. are services. You're not obliged to store anything.
But for the sake of the argument, you can...

There's or was plenty of "web drives" to store files. imac has this
I believe...

Services is what they can do for you:
- worldclocks
- web calendars
- web contacts (in my email client service for example)
- store Photos or movies to share with others (plenty of those too)
- write emails

Banking, realestate, news reading, etc... lots can be done with
simple services. My mom makes her own custom free business cards 
and gets them shipped free too. Gets reservations for her B&B
via the net too...

What else? Make reservations, find a vacation, a car... 

Sending documents to be printed or offset-printed is 20 years old...
BBS' did that already in the 80's!

IMOHO, services is not where it is going. Economically speaking,
after the information age, we also entered the service age.

Economic growth of services (macro-econ wise) have increased 
substantially since the 80s haven't they? In the enterprise,
we've gone through insourcing, and now outsourcing is more fun!

Funny, I wrote my thesis on IT economics and how a company
could leverage it's cpu power and tools to maximize profits.
I discovered intra-CSID-outsourcing ;)

And tomorrow what's next?

The fact that private data remains private is a major
concern that shouldn't be trivially forgoten. The marketing
empire behind will only be too happy to "categorize" you on
anything you output... Just to provide better services :)

Did I mention all services now come with sponsor labels on
them? It's called advertising... Here comes the brain 
washing age... Believe anything you want, it's the same 
price - free!

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Nov 14 11:44:05 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 17:44:05 +0100
Subject: ANN: New website
Message-ID: <646A6417-BF6B-4353-A8A5-B4131A317480@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

i finally managed to create some new webpages!
No more frames, just pure CSS and HTML. Not even tables :-D

Now you can also switch to the "other" language on every single page!


German site:
http;//www.major-k.de

English site:
http;//www.major-k.de/indexe.html


And here the direct link to the x-talk section:

German:
http;//www.major-k.de/xtalk.html

English:
http;//www.major-k.de/xtalke.html

Enjoy :-)


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



P.S.
I am doing my best, but since i am not a native english speaking
person, please drop a short line, if and where my english is not as
good it should be ;-) Thank you!



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Nov 14 11:58:24 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 17:58:24 +0100
Subject: ANN: New website TYPO
In-Reply-To: <646A6417-BF6B-4353-A8A5-B4131A317480@major-k.de>
References: <646A6417-BF6B-4353-A8A5-B4131A317480@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <D23BF1E8-B292-478E-B662-ED493808899B@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

what a wonderful start with a typo :-/


Here now the correct links:

German site:
http://www.major-k.de

English site:
http://www.major-k.de/indexe.html


X-talk section:

German:
http://www.major-k.de/xtalk.html

English:
http://www.major-k.de/xtalke.html


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Mon Nov 14 12:09:03 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 18:09:03 +0100
Subject: ANN: New website TYPO
In-Reply-To: <D23BF1E8-B292-478E-B662-ED493808899B@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <20051114163038.1B5C2824FF7@mail.runrev.com>


Very very schoen!

so what's the Quick-O? ;) 

;)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Klaus Major
> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 17:58
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: ANN: New website TYPO
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> what a wonderful start with a typo :-/
> 
> 
> Here now the correct links:
> 
> German site:
> http://www.major-k.de
> 
> English site:
> http://www.major-k.de/indexe.html
> 
> 
> X-talk section:
> 
> German:
> http://www.major-k.de/xtalk.html
> 
> English:
> http://www.major-k.de/xtalke.html
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> http://www.major-k.de
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Nov 14 12:06:55 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 18:06:55 +0100
Subject: ANN: New website TYPO
In-Reply-To: <20051114163038.1B5C2824FF7@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051114163038.1B5C2824FF7@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B3D22761-A341-4569-B275-F927BAA9A084@major-k.de>

Bon soir Xavier,

> Very very schoen!

Merci, mon ami :-)

> so what's the Quick-O? ;)

well, whatever, it's coming soon :-)

> ;)

Best

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Nov 14 12:10:08 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 18:10:08 +0100
Subject: ANN: New website
In-Reply-To: <646A6417-BF6B-4353-A8A5-B4131A317480@major-k.de>
References: <646A6417-BF6B-4353-A8A5-B4131A317480@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <3018C24F-D5D6-421C-9469-AF2CA99F2F2A@sosmartsoftware.com>

Bravo Klaus!
As clean as Zappa ;-)
Where is the famous banana?
I miss it...

PS. Most of the browsers will launch your site despite the typo... As  
Safari here :-)

Le 14 nov. 05 ? 17:44, Klaus Major a ?crit :

> Hi friends,
>
> i finally managed to create some new webpages!
> No more frames, just pure CSS and HTML. Not even tables :-D
>
> Now you can also switch to the "other" language on every single page!
>
>
> German site:
> http;//www.major-k.de
>
> English site:
> http;//www.major-k.de/indexe.html
>
>
> And here the direct link to the x-talk section:
>
> German:
> http;//www.major-k.de/xtalk.html
>
> English:
> http;//www.major-k.de/xtalke.html
>
> Enjoy :-)
>
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> http://www.major-k.de
>
>
>
> P.S.
> I am doing my best, but since i am not a native english speaking
> person, please drop a short line, if and where my english is not as
> good it should be ;-) Thank you!


Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Nov 14 12:20:06 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 18:20:06 +0100
Subject: ANN: New website
In-Reply-To: <3018C24F-D5D6-421C-9469-AF2CA99F2F2A@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <646A6417-BF6B-4353-A8A5-B4131A317480@major-k.de>
	<3018C24F-D5D6-421C-9469-AF2CA99F2F2A@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <0BBE03E4-9A37-4428-AFF3-280956B15A61@major-k.de>

Bon soir Eric,

> Bravo Klaus!

Merci, mon ami.

> As clean as Zappa ;-)

:-)

> Where is the famous banana?

Well, actually it left me :-/

After gaining some certain (and doubtful) glory, it asked for MUCH more
money, which i could not afford at that time and so it said goodbye  
and I think
it went straight to Hollywood (or was it Bollywood? Anyway...) to  
become a kiwi
ehm. star of some sort...

A VERY unthankful BRAT! :-D

Sandy and I (Hi Sandy :-) started to experiment with some small tuna  
fish,
but that is not the same.

> I miss it...

Sight, so do i...

> PS. Most of the browsers will launch your site despite the typo...  
> As Safari here :-)

Sure, but not all folks are using SUCH a smart browser! ;-)


Best from germany

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From darkshadow1 at metrocast.net  Mon Nov 14 12:31:04 2005
From: darkshadow1 at metrocast.net (Preston Shea)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:31:04 -0500
Subject: image on button
Message-ID: <001a01c5e941$306f6540$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>

RR lets me use a JPEG as icon on a button. The problem is that the image has a background that doesn't change when the button hilites. Is there a way around this? Do I have to convert the image to ICN format?

From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 14 13:01:24 2005
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 10:01:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How can I print all parts of oversize
	cards!?&In-Reply-To=s377e63f.014@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK
In-Reply-To: <s3787129.056@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>
Message-ID: <20051114180124.41695.qmail@web60516.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Kresten Bjerg <Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk> wrote:
> Thank you so much for the confirmation of the
> print-buffer-substack idea. I think my first posting
> explained
> ,but here again: It is an electronic diary stack,
> 3x3 screens wide (3072 x 2304).
>  Each day has a card, user will mostly stay with a
> main window, but has 8 other parallel windows, 
> for various purposes. (Others have recommended
> splitting the whole thing up in 9 substacks,
>  but our unorthodox solution has considerable
> advantages,-except for this unexpected limitation of
> print-function)
> We are developing on Mac OS 10.3.9, - but this
> should not be relevant. 
> The standalones shall be for all platforms (and
> freeware!).
> It would of course be very nice, if you could sketch
> the scripting you suggest, for we are not
> professionals.
>  .... With an invisible print-buffer-substack, with
> only one card, where the exported snapshot 
> should be eliminated after printing, so it can be
> used any day for all windows on the newest card, 
> - as the script in my first posting works for the
> first 6 windows
> Kresten
> 

Hi Kresten,

Have you tried to change the hscroll/vscroll
properties of the stack before printing, to see if
that makes a difference?

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From david at openpartnership.net  Thu Nov 10 16:30:19 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 22:30:19 +0100
Subject: Rev Image libraries
In-Reply-To: <FC631019-81D4-4153-BBA1-261CDECB6346@openpartnership.net>
References: <OFC8DFE600.DBCE25AF-ON852570B5.00718B34@sealedair.com>
	<49452588-679B-4699-ADB9-F1A0AFF29CE6@openpartnership.net>
	<FC631019-81D4-4153-BBA1-261CDECB6346@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <B2BD9006-DEB1-43F2-9BF0-0736BB2A7E3A@openpartnership.net>

Should it prove of use:

function rev_ImageLibraryIcons libraryName
     put the defaultStack into oDefault
     set the defaultStack to libraryName

     put the number of images of of this card into maxNum
     repeat with imageNum = 1 to maxNum
         put the long id of image imageNum into imageObject
         put the short name of imageObject into iconName
         put the short id of imageObject into id_Array[iconName]
     end repeat
     put id_Array into icon_NameTable
     combine icon_NameTable using return and tab
     set the defaultStack to oDefault
     return icon_NameTable
end rev_ImageLibraryIcons

Having to organise all these icons now- so any tips on "best  
practice" here?

Thinking of making a tool to export the images into a folder which a  
designer can work on - that is changing them to referenced images,  
and then something to go around re-IDing icons that are duplicated in  
groups in stacks - luckily they all have the same name - sometimes  
you just have to cope with other peoples mess :)

Anyone got an Icon Tool or organiser that I can use / add this stuff to?


On 10 Nov 2005, at 22:12, David Bovill wrote:

> function rev_MyImageLibraries
>     put the mainstacks into allLoaded
>     filter allLoaded with "revLib*"
>     line_Delete "revLibrary", allLoaded
>     line_Delete "revLibStandardButtons", allLoaded
>     return allLoaded
> end rev_MyImageLibraries
>
> on line_Delete someLines, @fromContainer, partLine, skipLines
>   set the wholeMatches to (partLine is empty)
>   repeat with ii = 1 to the number of lines of someLines
>     put line ii of someLines into someLine
>     get lineOffset(someLine, fromContainer, skipLines)
>     if it is not 0 then
>       put it + skipLines into lineNum
>       delete line lineNum of fromContainer
>     end if
>   end repeat
> end line_Delete



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Sun Nov 13 12:23:11 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 12:23:11 -0500
Subject: The Final Lowdown on RR, AIF files and Ubuntu 5.10
Message-ID: <web-339068363@mail.maclaunch.com>

I downloaded the RR 2.6.1 Linux 30 day trial and installed
it into one of my Ubuntu boxes.

WOW - a big Thank You to RunRev for these new capabilities!

(Yes, Richmond Mathewson IS saying Thank You!)

2.6.1 plays AIF files on Ubuntu without BL**DY Xanim (and,
believe me, it is very, very bl**dy)

HOWEVER - the nasty bit is that RR plays AIF files at
double speed in Ubuntu - so my 'sexy, masculine voice'
(cough, cough, cough) sounds like Mickey Mouse on Crack
Cocaine.

Having managed to successfully antagonise the Ubuntu
community (No, Richmond, antagonise anybody - surely not)
about the problem with AIF files (which also go wonky with
native Ubuntu apps) - they say it is a RR problem only; and
therefore the ball lies in RR's court (a view I do not
agree with) - I took the road of least resistence and
slowed all my AIF files down to half speed - they now play
in RR on Ubuntu and sound as they should.

I should be very ngrateful if anybody has access to Ubuntu
or Kubuntu to try playing AIF files imported either from
Mac or Win - and sent observations about the results to
kubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com : and while you are at it
have a bash at playing a WAV file!

RR advertises 'seamless' transport of files cross-platform:
and with regard to Linux this is not entirely true - but,
at least as far as Ubuntu is concerned, part of the fault
seems to lie with Ubuntu.

Sincerely, Richmond Mathewson
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From aurelien at setec-multimedia.fr  Sun Nov 13 18:11:14 2005
From: aurelien at setec-multimedia.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Aur=E9lien_Durand?=)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 00:11:14 +0100
Subject: Xlate & libTranslator 
In-Reply-To: <20051112180004.2E066825339@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051112180004.2E066825339@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <24c32dd2e99d45f367eccb1f50566a50@setec-multimedia.fr>

Thanks Mark for your help !


> I'm looking for the Xlate demo stack wich used to be available from the
> users' spaces. The "Go to" button doesn't activate any download for
> this particular stack.
> Is there any URL where i could download it ?
> Do you know any other stack wich demonstrates the possible uses of
> libTranslator ?

Thanks for the heads-up on that. I have no idea why that wouldn't
download - some revOnline glitch. I deleted it and uploaded it again,
creating a new entry, and it seems to work now.
-- 
-Mark Wieder
  mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Nov 14 03:57:47 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 03:57:47 -0500
Subject: RR, AIF files and Ubuntu Linux
Message-ID: <web-339099566@mail.maclaunch.com>

Dear Alejandro & other interested would-be workers with RR
& Linux,

I recorded all my sound files on a Mac Mini running Mac OS
10.4 - the reason I do things this way is that all my other
computers HUM and spoil my recordings.

The Ubuntu boxes I'm working with are Pentium 3's that do
not have network cards - cheap by Western standards, but
weighing in at the equivalent of the average monthly salary
each, here in Bulgaria. Owing to the lack of network cards
installing software that is not bundled on the Distro CD is
such a pain I'm just not doing it (mind you I did spend a
horrible Saturday "doing" xanim on one of them).

SO - I have 2 'beefs':

1. How 'seamless' transfer of RR stacks really is -

and, pictorially (GIFS, animated GIFS) everything is
completely seamless

soundwise - not very seamless - and the seams require quite
a bit of fancy sewing

2. Ubuntu's sound system (and Ubuntu is based on unstable
Debian)

AND - the obvious thing - how RR and Ubuntu work together.

I have a fantasy - which I would like to believe is not
entirely daft - that there should be at least one
programming suite 'out there' (and, why not let it be MC/RR
after all) that will allow me to program on a Macintosh
computer and then deploy on any platform I choose.

MC/RR comes very near indeed (except RISC OS).

I would like my language school to be a demonstration to
Bulgarian educators that there are alternatives to pirate
versions of Windows and programs written in retro-style
Visual Basic. As Linux (specifically Ubuntu) has been
adopted by the goverment of Macedonia there is a lot of
interest in Linux here - plus, the Bulgarian government
have pointed out that if they can transfer to an Open
Source OS they would have money to invest in a programming
suite (eg. MC/RR) to foster the development of in-house
educational software.

I, personally, would love to PUSH Runtime Revolution
coupled with Ubuntu.

I have tried both embedded AIF files and free-standing ones

- they both play at double speed

As to creating Multimedia elements inside Linux - just at
present I am working flat-out at plastering a classroom,
installing electrical sockets, and authoring the first
month's programs - so, unfortunately, that will either have
to wait, or a better person than me will have to try it.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 14 13:08:50 2005
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 10:08:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Buggy debugger -- solved?
In-Reply-To: <20051110051744.D1194825047@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20051114180850.89500.qmail@web60514.mail.yahoo.com>

--- MisterX <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:
> I don't know if this is related but I think I found
> a serious engine bug
> 
> put the selectedtext of btn "view" of grp "Objects"
> 
> I have a btn view of group objects and also a btn
> View of grp Index of grp
> Objects...
> 
> And this last one is the one that gets called!!!
> 
> There's a possible problem with background objects
> and their references
> which
> may explain why the debugger also gets lost! Further
> testing coming, results
> in 
> a bugzilla either way...
> 
> cheers
> Xavier
> 

Hi Xavier,

Sorry for the late reply, but I just wanted to confirm
this behaviour: I have been in situations where 2
buttons with the same name in a different group,
reselut in the engine applying my changes to the wrong
button, even though I use a reference like:
  set the fillColor of button "b1" of me to "orange"
(I'm away from my computer right now, so spelling of
the property may be off)

In your case, the engine could be grabbing the wrong
button, based on the layer of the button (if the
nested group Index was in a lower layer than the
button), but in my case the groups were not nested.

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From mcdomi at free.fr  Mon Nov 14 13:10:38 2005
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:10:38 +0100
Subject: ANN: New website TYPO
In-Reply-To: <20051114163038.1B5C2824FF7@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <1h6168g.h3t1y21vgx1k9M%mcdomi@free.fr>

MisterX <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:

> Very very schoen!

 je dirais m?me plus : sehr beautiful ;-)

what is "Flora Data", a commercial, educative piece?

-- 
Revolutionario vraiment polyglotte !



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Nov 14 13:24:51 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:24:51 +0100
Subject: ANN: New website TYPO
In-Reply-To: <1h6168g.h3t1y21vgx1k9M%mcdomi@free.fr>
References: <1h6168g.h3t1y21vgx1k9M%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <E7B80BB8-5B4F-4281-8002-F4E97B7CC30E@major-k.de>

Bon jour Dom,

looks like its french fan day today :-D

> MisterX <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:
>
>> Very very schoen!
>
>  je dirais m?me plus : sehr beautiful ;-)

Danke beaucoup!

> what is "Flora Data", a commercial, educative piece?

you caught me with my pants down :-)

Actually there is no english description yet because i lack some
very special and biological terms/words :-/

Yes, it is a commercial and educative piece of software to determine
families of plants (????) by selecting several properties in the  
application.

And you can drag and drop some petals onto a flower to select a  
certain number
of different petals...? Sorry, i am definitively not a biologist :-)

The software will be made available for free download, once we added  
a french and
english translation and it will have its own website, too.

I created this one for a school (Gymnasium) in Dortmund, germany and  
added it to my refs,
since it really looks and works fine :-)

> Revolutionario vraiment polyglotte !

A bient?t, mon ami...

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From revolution at jaedworks.com  Mon Nov 14 13:24:58 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 10:24:58 -0800
Subject: image on button
In-Reply-To: <001a01c5e941$306f6540$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
References: <001a01c5e941$306f6540$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
Message-ID: <p06210246bf9e86892981@[66.93.39.98]>

At 12:31 PM -0500 11/14/2005, Preston Shea wrote:
>RR lets me use a JPEG as icon on a button. The problem is that the 
>image has a background that doesn't change when the button hilites. 
>Is there a way around this? Do I have to convert the image to ICN 
>format?

Create a second JPEG with the appearance you want for the hilited 
button. Then set the button's hilitedIcon property to use that JPEG.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From dam-pro.girard at laposte.net  Mon Nov 14 13:46:06 2005
From: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net (Girard Damien)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:46:06 +0100
Subject: Make a command line software with Revolution
Message-ID: <1131993966.10458.7.camel@White-Side.Workgroup>

Hi all,

I wan't to make some very useful tool under linux, and I wan't to use my
favorite IDE called Revolution.

But I have got some problems :
- How can I pause my software until the user hasen't pressed the return
key ? (for example: "your name (press return for validate):")
- How can I run an another software into revolution and return messages
that send the software. (for exemple: when I install a rpm package (rpm
-ivh), there is a progress bar and a percentage, how can I get these
informations and returns them directly to the user.).

Regards,

Girard Damien
Email: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net



From revolution at derbrill.de  Mon Nov 14 13:51:22 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:51:22 +0100
Subject: ANN: New website 
In-Reply-To: <20051114180004.08BEB824FE8@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <A6AF28BC-553F-11DA-B61D-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

http://www.major-k.de

Very nice Klaus! Clapclap. :-)

can we see "Flora Data" in action somewhere? The screen shots are very 
interesting. :-)

All the best,

Malte

---
ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes
http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine
http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum 



From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Nov 14 13:54:23 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 16:54:23 -0200
Subject: Make a command line software with Revolution
In-Reply-To: <1131993966.10458.7.camel@White-Side.Workgroup>
References: <1131993966.10458.7.camel@White-Side.Workgroup>
Message-ID: <A3AA6687-93CA-4A3B-AA35-1F51E2AD6BAC@mac.com>


On Nov 14, 2005, at 4:46 PM, Girard Damien wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I wan't to make some very useful tool under linux, and I wan't to  
> use my
> favorite IDE called Revolution.
>
> But I have got some problems :
> - How can I pause my software until the user hasen't pressed the  
> return
> key ? (for example: "your name (press return for validate):")
> - How can I run an another software into revolution and return  
> messages
> that send the software. (for exemple: when I install a rpm package  
> (rpm
> -ivh), there is a progress bar and a percentage, how can I get these
> informations and returns them directly to the user.).

Girard,

check in your docs for STDIN and STDOUT. this will enable you to read  
and write to console, also "open process" will be your friend if you  
want to fiddle with proccesses.

:D

cheers
andre



>
> Regards,
>
> Girard Damien
> Email: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Nov 14 14:02:52 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:02:52 +0100
Subject: ANN: New website 
In-Reply-To: <A6AF28BC-553F-11DA-B61D-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
References: <A6AF28BC-553F-11DA-B61D-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <561CFD1B-3DF0-434E-9A4C-4ACDEB8AAEEE@major-k.de>

Hi Malte,

> http://www.major-k.de
>
> Very nice Klaus! Clapclap. :-)

Thanks a lot!

> can we see "Flora Data" in action somewhere? The screen shots are  
> very interesting. :-)

Yes, as i already wrote in my last mail:

"The software will be made available for free download, once we added  
a french and
english translation and it will have its own website, too."

> All the best,
>
> Malte
>
> ---
> ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes
> http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine
> http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum

Best

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


P.S.
To all:
I also created a nice SMIL lib a couple of weeks ago!
Don't miss it in Rev-online:
User: klausimausi
Name: mk_libSMIL1 :-)



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 14 14:17:04 2005
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 11:17:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time [long]
In-Reply-To: <F8BAA867-0A58-49F4-A946-B4A9CC23489E@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <20051114191704.65895.qmail@web60513.mail.yahoo.com>

--- David Bovill <david at openpartnership.net> wrote:
> 
> The main problem with the web service paradigm is
> for this sort of  
> application area. Noone is very happy trusting
> sensitive data this  
> way. Would you want your financial or medical data
> going over a web  
> service? Even if secured via HTTPS? Would you even
> want your  
> accounting information stored somewhere else? How
> about your contact  
> information and address book?
> 
> If the answer is no - that should not stop you
> taking this seriously.  
> Look at application areas where this is not a
> problem - for us we  
> intend to practice open accounting (works for a
> number of NGO's) -  
> for others this would most definitely not work
> (think Arthur  
> Anderson / Accenture).
> 

Hi David et al,

At my day-job, we offer a CITRIX-based online solution
for companies and accountants. The advantage is that
companies can access their data from anywhere on the
globe, while their (external) accountant/auditor can
do the necessary input of correction bookings.

As long as the connection is secure, you can rest
assured that the data is safe, as the ASP-providers
have rigorous backup and failover procedures in their
Service Level Agreements. And the application is
automatically updated for you to the latest version.

Consider having to setup your own server, paying for a
high-speed line in order to host it yourself, having
to backup it (we all know how often we backup our own
computers and keep a copy in a remote location, aye?)
and getting it back online when the whole thing comes
crashing down because of a failure.

Personally, I didn't think there was a future for
online accounting/administrative applications. But for
SMBs, it has turned out to be a cost-effective, secure
solution, providing global access to critical data.

Does this foretell the end of the desktop application?
Surely not: internet-enabled desktop applications have
their place, just like browser-based applications.

Until browsers offer more "widgets" that don't require
horrendous Javascripts to control the data entry and
limit the round-trips to the server, the building of
such solutions will remain hard.

Today, we can use Flash or Java applets to mimic the
user interface inside a browser, but how does this
differ from internet-enabled desktop apps? They run in
a browser thanks to a plug-in.

Does everything have to run on the server-side, while
a thin client shows the result of the changes after a
round-trip to the server? To me this sounds like a
return to the days of the mainframe, just with a nicer
GUI.

In a world where we're trying to squeeze the maximum
out of our computer resources through grid-computing,
the client computer can and should do a lot more than
sitting there as a dumb terminal (granted, it would do
the work of rendering 3D graphics and Quicktime movies
but that's not squeezing the most out of computing
resources, IMHO).

On a more positive note, as AJAX communicates with the
server through web services, we can use Revolution to
consume the same web services. In the end, the more
convenient access method will have the most users,
whether that's a browser-based or internet-enabled
desktop application.

Just my two cents,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Nov 14 14:23:24 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 13:23:24 -0600
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.10.1.20051114075404.019d6870@pon.net>
Message-ID: <BF9E404C.2FBE8%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/14/05 9:58 AM, "Rob Cozens" <rcozens at pon.net> wrote:

> Ken, et al:
> 
>> Personally my feeling is that this *could be* the wave of the future, and so
>> we should be keeping close tabs on it as the future pans out, and for those
>> of us that see this as more inevitable, I'd suggest finding a good niche to
>> add value. And for those us that see this as more "flavor of the week", we
>> can at least be cognizant of the technology and watch closely how it
>> progresses.
> 
> Wave of the future or flavor of the week?  Here's a question to help
> you decide:

That was my point - it's too early to make any kind of decision.
 
> How comfortable would you feel if all your Revolution source code and
> stack components were stored on somebody else's computer at some site
> remote from you?

The same way I feel that all my web site source code and components are
stored on someone else's computer at some site remote from me... I'm fine
with it so long as I have direct access to it and can keep a backup in case
the server goes down.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Nov 14 14:31:14 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 13:31:14 -0600
Subject: Serious Engine annoyance with is a folder on Win32...
In-Reply-To: <OF023634EC.4282B94C-ONC12570B9.004D7240-C12570B9.0051C9FE@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <BF9E4222.2FBEC%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/14/05 8:53 AM, "xavier.bury at clearstream.com"
<xavier.bury at clearstream.com> wrote:

> So i scan the paths list to find the right folders, eliminate the
> non-existing. But I kept getting this dialog: "there is no Disk in
> the drive. Please insert a disk into drife F:." with buttons
> (cancel)(try again)(continue).

Welcome to Windows... ;-)

That's something that's been discussed quite frequently here on the list;
that when you check for a path that is on a removable drive, Windows will do
just as you describe. There have been a few suggestions on how to handle
this, but it is different on different flavors of Windows (earlier ones will
always bring up the dialog; later ones *may* bring it up), but the bottom
line was that if you need to know from Win95 on up, you need to use a DLL or
third party utility EXE to check whether a drive is available or not.

See: http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/disk005.htm

Check out the update notes at the bottom of the page.

If you can count on only a later version of Windows, you can test the
readiness using VBS (I believe).

> Can anyone tell me if this also happens on Macs? Linux?
> Can another PC user confirm this?

Well, it doesn't happen on Macs because drives are uniquely named so there
isn't a specific name that refers to a removable drive (unlike A: and B:
which are by definition removable).


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From dam-pro.girard at laposte.net  Mon Nov 14 14:42:23 2005
From: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net (Girard Damien)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:42:23 +0100
Subject: Make a command line software with Revolution
In-Reply-To: <A3AA6687-93CA-4A3B-AA35-1F51E2AD6BAC@mac.com>
References: <1131993966.10458.7.camel@White-Side.Workgroup>
	<A3AA6687-93CA-4A3B-AA35-1F51E2AD6BAC@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1131997343.10458.15.camel@White-Side.Workgroup>

Le lundi 14 novembre 2005 ? 16:54 -0200, Andre Garzia a ?crit :
> On Nov 14, 2005, at 4:46 PM, Girard Damien wrote:
> 
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I wan't to make some very useful tool under linux, and I wan't to  
> > use my
> > favorite IDE called Revolution.
> >
> > But I have got some problems :
> > - How can I pause my software until the user hasen't pressed the  
> > return
> > key ? (for example: "your name (press return for validate):")
> > - How can I run an another software into revolution and return  
> > messages
> > that send the software. (for exemple: when I install a rpm package  
> > (rpm
> > -ivh), there is a progress bar and a percentage, how can I get these
> > informations and returns them directly to the user.).
> 
> Girard,
> 
> check in your docs for STDIN and STDOUT. this will enable you to read  
> and write to console, also "open process" will be your friend if you  
> want to fiddle with proccesses.
> 
> :D
> 
> cheers
> andre
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Girard Damien
> > Email: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net
> >

I already know stdout, and he work fine. I will look more deeper the
open process command (and associated commands).

And for stdin, I have tried this, but this doesn't work:

-------
put "false" into OK
  
  repeat while OK is false --I wait while the user have pressed any keys
    read from stdin until EOF
    if it is not empty then
      put true into OK
      write it to stdout
    end if
  end repeat
  
  quit
-------





From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Nov 14 14:51:49 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 11:51:49 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time [long]
In-Reply-To: <20051114191704.65895.qmail@web60513.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051114191704.65895.qmail@web60513.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0860311F-ECBC-4257-A8AA-DBE4BE97FD9F@danshafer.com>

And this is precisely the problem set at which AJAX is squarely aimed.


On Nov 14, 2005, at 11:17 AM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> Until browsers offer more "widgets" that don't require
> horrendous Javascripts to control the data entry and
> limit the round-trips to the server, the building of
> such solutions will remain hard.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Nov 14 14:53:55 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 11:53:55 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <BF9E404C.2FBE8%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF9E404C.2FBE8%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <53D67B6C-19F8-4099-B5AF-5C949C100007@danshafer.com>

Agreed. That and security are the issues and they have been more than  
adequately addressed for a long time now. The "omigod my data isn't  
on my own server" alarm is a red herring. Any company that sees the  
advantage in distributed browser-based apps can easily deal with the  
"scary" parts of the solution.

On Nov 14, 2005, at 11:23 AM, Ken Ray wrote:

>> How comfortable would you feel if all your Revolution source code and
>> stack components were stored on somebody else's computer at some site
>> remote from you?
>
> The same way I feel that all my web site source code and components  
> are
> stored on someone else's computer at some site remote from me...  
> I'm fine
> with it so long as I have direct access to it and can keep a backup  
> in case
> the server goes down.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From katir at hindu.org  Mon Nov 14 15:34:37 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 10:34:37 -1000
Subject: Purge Loop--Destroy Stack no working?
In-Reply-To: <4832E76C-91A3-4B72-A13C-2BDC13E67FCA@daniels-mara.com>
References: <5AA49A88-7491-40DA-AF91-F7EECC3BEAAC@hindu.org>
	<4832E76C-91A3-4B72-A13C-2BDC13E67FCA@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <4B5BE1A6-4DD6-43DD-9A09-F3454899670B@hindu.org>

OK, I removed object gadget, but my point was that, I tested with  
your suite entirelyl disabled (removed completely from the REv app  
folder) and I was still getting the request to purge stacks in memory  
that should have been destroyed on Close, but were not. The  
difference being that I only got it once and if I clicked purge, it  
worked... (vs the loop I would get with Constellation loaded *even if  
object gadget was not open*)


On Nov 14, 2005, at 2:13 AM, Jerry Daniels wrote:

> Sivakatirswami,
>
> I thought about your problem so more and have the following  
> observations, questions and recommendations.
>
> I don't think the problem is with the release version of  
> Constellation you are using but, it is possible that there is a  
> problem with one of Constellation's pre-release "buddies", Object  
> Gadget.
>
> Do you have Object Gadget open when this is happening? There is a  
> known issue with Object Gadget where it verifies its list and  
> inadvertently keeps the stacks in memory because it likes to test  
> every object's parent stack by its long stack name to see if it  
> exists. Please test without Object Gadget and see if it makes any  
> difference.
>
> Object Gadget it not released software, and it has known issues.  
> For this reason, I only use Object Gadget when I need it for  
> something and keep it close if I don't need it--and I have no  
> difficulties with it. That's also why it is discounted so that it  
> costs about two dollars right now. Once we get Object Gadget  
> released, this will no longer be an issue (and the discounted price  
> will go away, too).
>
> Please let me know how your test without Object Gadget goes--or how  
> you do with discretionary use of it as indicated above.
>
> It would seem unlikely to me that your stacks are corrupted. My  
> experience with corrupted stacks usually means the stack will not  
> open and if it does it appears to have extremely sluggish behavior  
> and slows down the IDE noticeably.
>
> Also, all of the products we sell are pretty stingy with doling out  
> custom properties and there are preferences to prevent them from  
> being used at all. I don't believe custom props would cause your  
> problem, in any case.
>
> There are many people (I am becoming one) who prefer to store all  
> data outside the stack--in a text file using XML or the like. Like  
> others, when saving on close in the IDE, if something "unexpected"  
> happens with the IDE, it can affect the process of saving and THEN  
> corruption can take place. I haven't had problems with explicit  
> saving in the IDE, whereas I have had problems with the implicit  
> save you noted in your closeStack handler.
>
> Best,
>
> Jerry
>
> http://www.daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm
> Scripts and properties in a tabbed editor!
>
> On Nov 13, 2005, at 10:36 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote:
>
>
>> The past few days REv is repeatedly asking me if I want to purge a  
>> stack in memory with the same name... Most of my stacks have
>>
>> on closestack
>>    save this stack
>> end close stack
>>
>> And for some reason, if Constellation is running, this puts me  
>> into an infinite loop where Rev is unable to save (because there  
>> is a stack in memory with the same name) ... I click save or purge  
>> or cancel, it doesn't matter... the msg comes right back..
>>
>> if I don't boot constellation, I don't get into a loop but still  
>> though all my stacks are set to Destroy on close, rev keeps asking  
>> to purge a previously closed stack if I open another which has the  
>> same name.
>>
>> I'm thinking something has been corrupted or a custom prop is  
>> "stuck" somewhere that thinks these stacks are in memory when they  
>> or not, or they are not being destroyed when they should be... any  
>> ideas?  Rebooting Rev does not change the behavior.
>>
>> Sivakatirswami
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From rev at armbase.com  Mon Nov 14 15:46:53 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:46:53 +0000
Subject: open with on windows does not work with rev. Heeeeeelp :-)
Message-ID: <gemini.ipypq500455cf01ms.rev@armbase.com>

Hi All.

I was wanting to launch a rev plugin to check for updates. (I won't mention
the plugin because it is not the fault of the plugin). I deleted rev 2.5
because I use 2.6 and the old rev version kept launching.

So I doubleclicked on the plugin (has a .rev extension) and windows asked me
what application I wanted to use. Since rev was not in the list, I clicked
browse to go to the rev 2.6 folder and clicked on revolution.exe.

I then clicked open and then OK. Oooooops. Windows XP did not recognise
revolution.exe and set all the files with a .rev extension to firefox. :-(

I tried going to the individual properties and diong it that way but still
no luck. Windows does not recognise revolution as an app to associate
fieltypes with. 

Anyone got any idea what I should do (appart from using a mac. :-)
I'm thinking along the lines of my first forray into the registry. Ohhhh!


Cheers
Bob


From katir at hindu.org  Mon Nov 14 17:00:05 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:00:05 -1000
Subject: Check Modification Date of  single file?
Message-ID: <183134AA-A23B-48F8-8B1B-EB1E6804BC4D@hindu.org>

Is there a way to check the modification date of a single file?  If  
not in rev, anyone know the shell cmd for this?

I have a long list of file-paths  all in different folders and I need  
to determine which ones were change today and return that set to a  
different list.

Sivakatirswami




From klaus at major-k.de  Mon Nov 14 17:04:51 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 23:04:51 +0100
Subject: Check Modification Date of  single file?
In-Reply-To: <183134AA-A23B-48F8-8B1B-EB1E6804BC4D@hindu.org>
References: <183134AA-A23B-48F8-8B1B-EB1E6804BC4D@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <F54DC1CF-F990-4959-BAC5-F4E0DF99DA7B@major-k.de>

Hi Swami,

> Is there a way to check the modification date of a single file?  If  
> not in rev, anyone know the shell cmd for this?
> I have a long list of file-paths  all in different folders and I  
> need to determine which ones were change today and return that set  
> to a different list.

check the docs for "files":
-> "the detailed files" or "the long files".

That will give you the desired info.

> Sivakatirswami

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From katir at hindu.org  Mon Nov 14 17:38:36 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:38:36 -1000
Subject: Check Modification Date of  single file?
In-Reply-To: <F54DC1CF-F990-4959-BAC5-F4E0DF99DA7B@major-k.de>
References: <183134AA-A23B-48F8-8B1B-EB1E6804BC4D@hindu.org>
	<F54DC1CF-F990-4959-BAC5-F4E0DF99DA7B@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <1C2A0F8C-C56E-4508-B871-34BA15BF1A7F@hindu.org>

Klaus, Aloha from Hawaii, I hope you don't have too cold a winter  
over there, pray that the Gulf Stream doesn't stop...predicted to  
soon -- maybe as soon as in next five years or so -- at which time  
Europe freezes over; if it does you can move to Hawaii and help us here.

Detailed files: right, saw that... but thats returned from all files  
in the defaultFolder... I looking to get that info from a single file  
on a single path  (this list of file I have is in multiple folders)

Sivakatirswami


On Nov 14, 2005, at 12:04 PM, Klaus Major wrote:

> Hi Swami,
>
>
>> Is there a way to check the modification date of a single file?   
>> If not in rev, anyone know the shell cmd for this?
>> I have a long list of file-paths  all in different folders and I  
>> need to determine which ones were change today and return that set  
>> to a different list.
>>
>
> check the docs for "files":
> -> "the detailed files" or "the long files".
>
> That will give you the desired info.
>
>
>> Sivakatirswami
>>
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> http://www.major-k.de
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk  Mon Nov 14 17:38:15 2005
From: Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk (Kresten Bjerg)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 23:38:15 +0100
Subject: How can I print all parts of oversize cards!....desperately !
Message-ID: <s3791ffa.094@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>

Dear Jacqueline
 
As you see from my first posting - and from the last- it is only the problem of printing a single snapshot from
 a visible window ( past horizontal 2000) of a large card.
We have been trying to follow your suggestion of :
"... importing... snapshot(s) to a buffer stack and then printing the buffer's card should work.....",
 but we get stuck. 
We have succesfully exported a snapshot from a (visible) part of a card into a container named screenbuff,
 which seems to contain binary image data. But we cant suceed in putting this into a screensize  image ("bufferimage") 
for that purpose on the buffer-stack. 
Using "set the imagedata of image "bufferimage" to screenbuff results in an extremely distorted image...
How should the scripting go to suceed in putting such a screen snapshot into the screensize  image in the bufferstack  ?
Please !
 
P.S.  : is the limitation to horizontal 2000 for printcard  known - a discussed issue...a bug ?....the result of a decision ?
 
Kresten
 

 



From jhj at jhj.com  Mon Nov 14 18:03:58 2005
From: jhj at jhj.com (Jerry J)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 15:03:58 -0800
Subject: Table Field Object - how to use?
In-Reply-To: <20051114005841.74441825391@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051114005841.74441825391@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <eaff6d453ee13c8929c0a1fab9c0961f@jhj.com>

I've been avoiding table fields because of lack of instructions and 
hints of near-future improvements. Now I have a client who really wants 
to know, and has a very simple use in mind. I have been looking around 
in my saved digests (and everywhere else I can think of) but the topic 
eludes me. I know I've seen a simple how-to before, when I didn't 
really care, where was that? Sorry to bring up an old and frequent 
topic, but I am stumped.

Thanks,
Jerry Jensen



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Nov 14 18:19:38 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 17:19:38 -0600
Subject: How can I print all parts of oversize cards!....desperately !
In-Reply-To: <s3791ffa.094@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>
References: <s3791ffa.094@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>
Message-ID: <43791B8A.9000208@hyperactivesw.com>

Kresten Bjerg wrote:
> Dear Jacqueline
>  
> As you see from my first posting - and from the last- it is only the problem of printing a single snapshot from
>  a visible window ( past horizontal 2000) of a large card.
> We have been trying to follow your suggestion of :
> "... importing... snapshot(s) to a buffer stack and then printing the buffer's card should work.....",
>  but we get stuck. 
> We have succesfully exported a snapshot from a (visible) part of a card into a container named screenbuff,
>  which seems to contain binary image data. But we cant suceed in putting this into a screensize  image ("bufferimage") 
> for that purpose on the buffer-stack. 
> Using "set the imagedata of image "bufferimage" to screenbuff results in an extremely distorted image...
> How should the scripting go to suceed in putting such a screen snapshot into the screensize  image in the bufferstack  ?
> Please !
>  
> P.S.  : is the limitation to horizontal 2000 for printcard  known - a discussed issue...a bug ?....the result of a decision ?

There's been some discussion about the limitation, which apparently 
occurs only on OS X. Here is one post about it:

<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-October/046011.html>

You may have to try tiling the image. That is, create several snapshots 
instead of just one, and then import them as separate images and set 
their edges to touch.

There are several ways to bring images into a stack.

1. You can create a blank image and then set its imagedata from a file 
on disk as you are doing now. This stores the image data in the stack 
and increases stack size, so you'll want to empty the images when you 
are done with them. ("set the imagedata of img 1 to empty").

2. An easier way to deal with several images is just to import them 
directly:

   import paint from file "mySnapshot.jpeg"

This also increases stack size, so delete or empty the stack images when 
you are done. You may also want to remove the snapshot files on disk 
("delete file <path to file>").

3. Create image objects in advance, and set their filenames to the image 
paths on disk. This is called a "referenced" image. It does not increase 
stack size because the image data is not stored in the stack. The images 
remain on disk, however, so you may want to delete them when done 
("delete file <path to file>").

If you decide you need to tile the images to get them to print, then 
take two or three snapshots of the screen, dividing it into halves or 
thirds. When you want to print, bring them into your buffer stack using 
one of the above methods. For example, using method #2 with 2 images:

set the defaultstack to "BufferPrintStack"
import paint from file "snapshot1.jpg" -- you may need a full path here
set the topleft of img ""snapshot1.jpg"" to 0,0 -- or wherever
import paint from file "snapshot2.jpg"
set the topleft of last img to (the top of img "snapshot1.jpg",the right 
of img "snapshot1.jpg")

If you are setting the filenames of pre-existing image objects, then you 
can align them beforehand in the IDE and just set their filenames when 
you are ready to print.

That said, I wonder why you want to print an actual screen image. If you 
are printing diary information, wouldn't it be better to print just the 
text? Will your users really want a printout of all the buttons and 
window borders?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Nov 14 18:30:01 2005
From: livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk (Graham Samuel)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 23:30:01 +0000
Subject: Limitations of 'click'?
Message-ID: <A4AFAAED-C076-4644-93F7-D6B3137E9F4E@blueyonder.co.uk>

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 05:06:39 EST, Cubist at aol.com wrote:
>
> sez livfoss at blueyonder.co.uk:
>
>> I'm trying to traverse a set of fields whose names and numbers I
>> don't reliably know. In fact my plan is to rename them systematically
>> by visiting each one in turn. What I do know is their locations (they
>> form a grid to which the names will be related). I thought I could
>> move along the grid, storing the coordinates of the next field in
>> line in say myNewLoc, and then execute at each iteration:
>>
>>  click at myNewLoc
>>
>> or whatever. I can do this, and I am sure that I am clicking on an
>> open field, but this action doesn't seem to set either the clickField
>> or the selectedField, nor send an 'openField' message, so I can't
>> then operate on the field I've clicked on. In fact I find the
>> clickField to be empty and the selectedField to be a field which
>> clearly isn't selected. According to the RR docs, the 'click' command
>> acts as a mouse click, which would AFAIK set both these, so I must be
>> doing something wrong. Can anybody suggest what?
>>
>    Given that you absolutely *do* know the locations of the fields in
> question, something like this might do the job for you:
>
>   put "Field List" into ListOFieldz
>   repeat with K1 = 1 to the number of fields
>     put return & (the short name of field K1 & "," & the loc of  
> field K1)
> after ListOFieldz
>   end repeat
>   delete line 1 of ListOFieldz
>
>   # okay, we got all the fields. now let's sort them by location
>   sort lines numeric of ListOFieldz by item 3 of each
>   sort lines numeric of ListOFieldz by item 2 of each
>
>   # right here is a good place to delete unwanted fields,
>   #   based on the locations thereof
>
>   # and, moving right along...
>   repeat for each line LL in ListOFieldz
>     put item 1 of LL into DisFld
>     DoWhateverYouWantTo DisFld
>   end repeat
>
>    Hope this helps.
>
Thanks very much - I get the idea (the only tricky bit is the  
discarding of irrelevant fields some of which have exactly the same  
location as the relevant ones, but are stacked lower): but I can do  
it, in fact. So thanks to you I could solve the immediate problem.

However I remained extremely curious about the operation of 'click'.  
I tried an experiment with a one-card stack containing a single  
field, and 'click at' worked as advertised, firing off an 'openField'  
which could be run in the card script as easily as in the field  
itself (which is what I wanted). Eventually I realised that I had  
some kind of timing problem in the original solution. It evolved to  
the point where at the click of a button, I ran a loop which  
traversed my fields, but the actual work was done in an 'openField'  
handler invoked by my click. This tended to crash or produce the  
wrong result until I introduced a delay into the loop, like

click at myCalculatedLoc
wait 50 milliseconds

After that it worked perfectly. It seems to me that the message path  
was more complex than I had imagined: I thought that as soon as the  
'click' was executed, control would pass to the openField handler and  
it wouldn't get back to my button script until the handler was done -  
but this wasn't exactly the case. I haven't got time to work out what  
the problem really was, but I'm afraid that one of these days it will  
come up and bite me.

Graham


------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
---
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France



From psahores at easynet.fr  Mon Nov 14 18:39:06 2005
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 00:39:06 +0100
Subject: ANN: New website
In-Reply-To: <646A6417-BF6B-4353-A8A5-B4131A317480@major-k.de>
References: <646A6417-BF6B-4353-A8A5-B4131A317480@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <B65B2A4C-DAA5-4A06-A929-F2BE82521C9E@easynet.fr>

A?e, a?e, a?e ! All the ones whose did'nt switch to CSS2 are yet able  
to sse why we need to do it, AS SOON AS POSSIBLE !!!

Great and cool, Klaus :-)

Best Regards,

Le 14 nov. 05 ? 17:44, Klaus Major a ?crit :

> Hi friends,
>
> i finally managed to create some new webpages!
> No more frames, just pure CSS and HTML. Not even tables :-D
>
> Now you can also switch to the "other" language on every single page!
>
>
> German site:
> http;//www.major-k.de
>
> English site:
> http;//www.major-k.de/indexe.html
>
>
> And here the direct link to the x-talk section:
>
> German:
> http;//www.major-k.de/xtalk.html
>
> English:
> http;//www.major-k.de/xtalke.html
>
> Enjoy :-)
>
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> http://www.major-k.de
>
>
>
> P.S.
> I am doing my best, but since i am not a native english speaking
> person, please drop a short line, if and where my english is not as
> good it should be ;-) Thank you!
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



That's all for yet, Friends, Kind Regards, Pierre Sahores

"A partir du moment o? on ?volue dans une activit? o? il n'y a pas de  
place pour la fanfaronnade, on est oblig? de tomber sur des  
personnages d'exception. Tous ces gens sont au limiteur." Pierre  
Dupasquier





From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Nov 14 19:52:55 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 00:52:55 +0000
Subject: Table Field Object - how to use?
In-Reply-To: <eaff6d453ee13c8929c0a1fab9c0961f@jhj.com>
References: <20051114005841.74441825391@mail.runrev.com>
	<eaff6d453ee13c8929c0a1fab9c0961f@jhj.com>
Message-ID: <43793167.1050901@tweedly.net>

Jerry J wrote:

> I've been avoiding table fields because of lack of instructions and 
> hints of near-future improvements. Now I have a client who really 
> wants to know, and has a very simple use in mind. I have been looking 
> around in my saved digests (and everywhere else I can think of) but 
> the topic eludes me. I know I've seen a simple how-to before, when I 
> didn't really care, where was that? Sorry to bring up an old and 
> frequent topic, but I am stumped.
>
It might be the tutorial (number 16) by Eric Chatonet of So Smart 
Software. Can be found at

http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/?r=revolution_didacticiels&l=en



-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.0/167 - Release Date: 11/11/2005



From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Nov 14 19:57:22 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 00:57:22 +0000
Subject: Check Modification Date of  single file?
In-Reply-To: <1C2A0F8C-C56E-4508-B871-34BA15BF1A7F@hindu.org>
References: <183134AA-A23B-48F8-8B1B-EB1E6804BC4D@hindu.org>	<F54DC1CF-F990-4959-BAC5-F4E0DF99DA7B@major-k.de>
	<1C2A0F8C-C56E-4508-B871-34BA15BF1A7F@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <43793272.8000201@tweedly.net>

Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Klaus, Aloha from Hawaii, I hope you don't have too cold a winter  
> over there, pray that the Gulf Stream doesn't stop...predicted to  
> soon -- maybe as soon as in next five years or so -- at which time  
> Europe freezes over; if it does you can move to Hawaii and help us here.
>
> Detailed files: right, saw that... but thats returned from all files  
> in the defaultFolder... I looking to get that info from a single file  
> on a single path  (this list of file I have is in multiple folders)

I don't think there is a way to get the info for a single file. Remember 
that what "the detailed files" does is read the directory info - so it 
would not be significantly faster to read the info for one file than it 
is for the whole folder.

Ideally (for performance) you'd sort the list of files you care about by 
folder, then visit each folder in turn, get the detailed files, make the 
decision about each of the files in your list, then move on to the next 
folder ...

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.0/167 - Release Date: 11/11/2005



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Nov 14 20:21:07 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 17:21:07 -0800
Subject: Check Modification Date of  single file?
In-Reply-To: <43793272.8000201@tweedly.net>
References: <183134AA-A23B-48F8-8B1B-EB1E6804BC4D@hindu.org>	<F54DC1CF-F990-4959-BAC5-F4E0DF99DA7B@major-k.de>	<1C2A0F8C-C56E-4508-B871-34BA15BF1A7F@hindu.org>
	<43793272.8000201@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <43793803.7000202@fourthworld.com>

Alex Tweedly wrote:
> Sivakatirswami wrote:
> 
>> Klaus, Aloha from Hawaii, I hope you don't have too cold a winter  
>> over there, pray that the Gulf Stream doesn't stop...predicted to  
>> soon -- maybe as soon as in next five years or so -- at which time  
>> Europe freezes over; if it does you can move to Hawaii and help us here.
>>
>> Detailed files: right, saw that... but thats returned from all files  
>> in the defaultFolder... I looking to get that info from a single file  
>> on a single path  (this list of file I have is in multiple folders)
> 
> 
> I don't think there is a way to get the info for a single file. Remember 
> that what "the detailed files" does is read the directory info - so it 
> would not be significantly faster to read the info for one file than it 
> is for the whole folder.
> 
> Ideally (for performance) you'd sort the list of files you care about by 
> folder, then visit each folder in turn, get the detailed files, make the 
> decision about each of the files in your list, then move on to the next 
> folder ...

Agreed.  The function below takes about 4ms per call on my 1GHz PB G4. 
If you comment out the second part of the GetModDate function below "--" 
it takes almost the same amount of time, suggesting that most of the 
time is eaten storing, changing, and restoring the directory:

on mouseUp
   put 1000 into n
   put the millisecs into t
   repeat n
     get GetModDate("/Users/richardgaskin/Documents/EPSON OS X booklet.pdf")
   end repeat
   put (the millisecs - t)/n
end mouseUp


function GetModDate pPath
   set the itemdel to "/"
   put urlEncode(last item of pPath) into tFile
   delete last item of pPath
   put the directory into tSaveDir
   set the directory to pPath
   put the detailed files into tFileList
   set the directory to tSaveDir
   --
   set the itemdel to comma
   get lineoffset(cr&tFile&comma, tFileList)
   if it > 0 then
     return item 5 of line it of tFileList
   end if
end GetModDate




--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From katir at hindu.org  Mon Nov 14 20:40:09 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 15:40:09 -1000
Subject: Check Modification Date of  single file?
In-Reply-To: <43793803.7000202@fourthworld.com>
References: <183134AA-A23B-48F8-8B1B-EB1E6804BC4D@hindu.org>	<F54DC1CF-F990-4959-BAC5-F4E0DF99DA7B@major-k.de>	<1C2A0F8C-C56E-4508-B871-34BA15BF1A7F@hindu.org>
	<43793272.8000201@tweedly.net> <43793803.7000202@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <2DE69EE7-928D-4585-8D2F-6B99F57FD2DB@hindu.org>

What can I say? You are all such beautiful souls... thank you! This  
goes in my scrapbook...

Sivakatirswami


On Nov 14, 2005, at 3:21 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> on mouseUp
>   put 1000 into n
>   put the millisecs into t
>   repeat n
>     get GetModDate("/Users/richardgaskin/Documents/EPSON OS X  
> booklet.pdf")
>   end repeat
>   put (the millisecs - t)/n
> end mouseUp
>
>
> function GetModDate pPath
>   set the itemdel to "/"
>   put urlEncode(last item of pPath) into tFile
>   delete last item of pPath
>   put the directory into tSaveDir
>   set the directory to pPath
>   put the detailed files into tFileList
>   set the directory to tSaveDir
>   --
>   set the itemdel to comma
>   get lineoffset(cr&tFile&comma, tFileList)
>   if it > 0 then
>     return item 5 of line it of tFileList
>   end if
> end GetModDate



From Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk  Mon Nov 14 21:05:10 2005
From: Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk (Kresten Bjerg)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 03:05:10 +0100
Subject: How can I print all parts of oversize cards!....desperately
Message-ID: <s379507c.004@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>

Thanks for suggestions
 

Jacqueline wrote:
>There's been some discussion about the limitation, which apparently 
>occurs only on OS X. Here is one post about it:

><http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-October/046011.html>

>You may have to try tiling the image. That is, create several snapshots 
>instead of just one, and then import them as separate images and set 
>their edges to touch.
 
But those problems are of another kind. They are concerned with very large images,
surpassing 4096 x 4096.  The total card area in our case is well within these limits,
the problem comes from the fact that 6 screensize windows with horizontal hrect  < 2000 can print,
while 3 where horizontal rect lies from app 2000 to 3072 cannot !

>There are several ways to bring images into a stack.

>1. You can create a blank image and then set its imagedata from a file 
>on disk as you are doing now. This stores the image data in the stack 
>and increases stack size, so you'll want to empty the images when you 
>are done with them. ("set the imagedata of img 1 to empty").
 
Well, this is where we fail:
"If phenowindow is gardenwindow then
export snapshot from rect 10,30,900,704 to screenbuff 
- - (in this case we have to use relative rects, 
contrary to when we use the print this card formula for the other 6 windows)
 
go stack printbuffer
set the imagedata of image "Bufferimage" to screenbuff
end if"
ALAS, this does produce a change of the before empty image "Bufferimage", 
but a totally messed up one, where you cannot recognize the structures of the window being snapshotted.
 
So we need a way to ensure, that these data are interpreted in the right way.
There is something about "binfile" which may be relevant. But we would like not to go around the further complication
of creating a separate imagefile, so the variable "screenbuff" should be enough.
therefore

>just to import them 
>directly:
>import paint from file "mySnapshot.jpeg"..........
.
should be unnessecary

>...... "referenced" image. 
 
also unnessecary
 
x>If you decide you need to tile the images .......
 
should be a waste of energy, as the images are no more than screen size-

>That said, I wonder why you want to print an actual screen image. If you 
>are printing diary information, wouldn't it be better to print just the 
>text? Will your users really want a printout of all the buttons and 
>window borders?
 
Certainly the printout of diary text is primary. But the user has so many options 
for design ( and updating) representing  various topologies of their lifespace, 
(Home, family, garden, neighbourhood, workplace etc )and distribution of pictogram-(glyph) buttons, 
relative to these topologies, that they shall be able - now and then - 
to get printouts of their present organisation. 
Also, one window shows the distribution of glyph-entries over all the 10-minute intervals of the day. 
This may, for some users, for special days, be nice to have in hard copy.
 
P.S.  In order to have postings to this site posted "into the thread" does one have to 
subscribe to the list?
 
best regards
kresten
 


 
 
 



From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Mon Nov 14 22:11:23 2005
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:11:23 +0800
Subject: image on button
In-Reply-To: <p06210246bf9e86892981@66.93.39.98>
References: <001a01c5e941$306f6540$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
	<p06210246bf9e86892981@66.93.39.98>
Message-ID: <f73a98160511141911s19ae86f0mdd7db1ebd83a787d@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/15/05, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto <revolution at jaedworks.com> wrote:
>
>
> Create a second JPEG with the appearance you want for the hilited
> button. Then set the button's hilitedIcon property to use that JPEG.
>
> You will also probably want to create a third JPEG for what it looks like
should you need to disable the button. This would be the button's
disabledIcon property.

HTH
???????
`????
"

From nicolas_cueto at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 14 22:44:18 2005
From: nicolas_cueto at yahoo.com (N Cueto)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: maze wall algorithm
In-Reply-To: <s379507c.004@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>
Message-ID: <20051115034418.82750.qmail@web60612.mail.yahoo.com>

This is a puzzle more than a RunRev
topic. Apologies.

If given a maze in the form of a
grid such as this...
 _ _ _
|1|2|3|
|- - -|
|4|5|6|
|- - -|
|7|8|9|
 - - -

... and in which the squares 
are made up of images and the
walls of graphics...

... and also in which the
walls are removable so as
to create a maze such as
this...

 _   _
|1 2|3|
|  - -|
|4|5|6|
|  - -|
|7 8|9|
 -   -

... then, what would be the 
ideal scripting for limiting
"movement" between only
contiguous squares that are
not separated by a wall, i.e,
in this example the only
allowed path would be...

8->7->4->1->2

My own idea is to use either
the loc of objects or custom
properties.

Many many thanks.

--
Nicolas Cueto
niconiko language school


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Nov 14 23:01:57 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:01:57 -0800
Subject: maze wall algorithm
In-Reply-To: <20051115034418.82750.qmail@web60612.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BF9E9DB5.24F25%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently,N Cueto wrote:

> If given a maze in the form of a
> grid
> ...
> then, what would be the
> ideal scripting for limiting
> "movement" between only
> contiguous squares that are
> not separated by a wall

The way I've done something like this in the past is to use physical
boundaries, in other words, using the intersect and/or within functions to
prevent/constrain movement in certain directions.  From your example, it's
not clear if you *need* to limit movement based on numerical progression,
but this could be handled easily via the loc property, as you guessed.

You could use rectangle "wall" graphics combined with the above functions to
allow for moveable obstacles, and test for collision with the graphics on
the current maze/screen.  Alternatively, if you were able to use a single
image as your maze, this would allow for testing intersect/within results
within a single object -- the image.  This is the benefit of using images
for collision detection in that you can test for non-transparent pixel
collisions, as opposed to using graphics which only allow for rects.  I
don't know if images would work in your situation but that was the technique
I used and it's reliable.

Let me know if this makes sense (or if not, maybe I can dig up an old demo).

Of course, one must also keep in mind Malte Brill's Arcade Engine...

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Nov 15 00:20:23 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 06:20:23 +0100
Subject: Serious Engine annoyance with is a folder on Win32...
In-Reply-To: <BF9E4222.2FBEC%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <20051115044155.11DDA824EC3@mail.runrev.com>

Ken

These errors come from non-removable drives. But I see your point.

that will be shell redirected ;(

Thanks for the confirmation. Now I see what the fuss was about!

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ray
> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 20:31
> To: Use Revolution List
> Subject: Re: Serious Engine annoyance with is a folder on Win32...
> 
> On 11/14/05 8:53 AM, "xavier.bury at clearstream.com"
> <xavier.bury at clearstream.com> wrote:
> 
> > So i scan the paths list to find the right folders, eliminate the 
> > non-existing. But I kept getting this dialog: "there is no 
> Disk in the 
> > drive. Please insert a disk into drife F:." with buttons 
> (cancel)(try 
> > again)(continue).
> 
> Welcome to Windows... ;-)
> 
> That's something that's been discussed quite frequently here 
> on the list; that when you check for a path that is on a 
> removable drive, Windows will do just as you describe. There 
> have been a few suggestions on how to handle this, but it is 
> different on different flavors of Windows (earlier ones will 
> always bring up the dialog; later ones *may* bring it up), 
> but the bottom line was that if you need to know from Win95 
> on up, you need to use a DLL or third party utility EXE to 
> check whether a drive is available or not.
> 
> See: http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/disk005.htm
> 
> Check out the update notes at the bottom of the page.
> 
> If you can count on only a later version of Windows, you can 
> test the readiness using VBS (I believe).
> 
> > Can anyone tell me if this also happens on Macs? Linux?
> > Can another PC user confirm this?
> 
> Well, it doesn't happen on Macs because drives are uniquely 
> named so there isn't a specific name that refers to a 
> removable drive (unlike A: and B:
> which are by definition removable).
> 
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dave at crystalpiersw.com  Tue Nov 15 00:59:53 2005
From: dave at crystalpiersw.com (Dave Beck)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 02:59:53 -0300
Subject: Load URL returns error 10049
Message-ID: <20051115052610.1B6E1824F10@mail.runrev.com>

 

First of all, many apologies for the triple post of the original message in
this thread!! I had changed emails and experienced some "issues" with
posting the message from an address that was not a subscribed to the list.
The re-posting was definitely not intentional (sorry again!).

 

Dave, I had the user check to see if there were any proxy settings and the
answer was no there are not any. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

Erin, I had the user ping the web site that the script is trying to access
through Load URL and the ping returned:

 

Ping statistics for 66.160.133.98

Packets: Sent 4, Received 4, lost 0

Approximate round trip minimum =72ms, maximum 78 ms, average 74ms

 

So everything appears to be normal there. I also built I special version of
the stand alone that accesses the URL through the IP address as you
suggested, but unfortunately she still received the same 10049 error.

 

Should I still try to determine show she's getting her own IP (e.g., is it
static or assigned via DHCP), and / or what her default gateway is? (She
already told me that she is not on an internal network or behind a
firewall.) Or in light of the new info is that a moot point?

 

Sorry about the delay getting back to the list with results of these tests.
It took until today for her to get back to me.

 

Any help anybody could offer would be greatly appreciated. Again, the
problem is that the load URL command fails for this user when trying to load
a web page and the URLStatus function returns "error". Then the
libURLErrorData function returns "10049". This problem is isolated to this
user and the stand alone has been distributed and works as expected for over
50 others, as accessing the same hard coded URL.

 

Many thanks,

Dave Beck



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Nov 15 01:18:35 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 00:18:35 -0600
Subject: Serious Engine annoyance with is a folder on Win32...
In-Reply-To: <20051115044155.11DDA824EC3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BF9ED9DB.2FC4C%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/14/05 11:20 PM, "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:

> Ken
> 
> These errors come from non-removable drives. But I see your point.

You get an error "Please insert a disk into drive F:" when drive F is not a
removable disk? Wow...

I'd love to know why *that's* happening...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Nov 15 01:31:28 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 00:31:28 -0600
Subject: How can I print all parts of oversize cards!....desperately
In-Reply-To: <s379507c.004@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>
References: <s379507c.004@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>
Message-ID: <437980C0.60203@hyperactivesw.com>

Kresten Bjerg wrote:

> But those problems are of another kind. They are concerned with very large images,
> surpassing 4096 x 4096.  The total card area in our case is well within these limits,
> the problem comes from the fact that 6 screensize windows with horizontal hrect  < 2000 can print,
> while 3 where horizontal rect lies from app 2000 to 3072 cannot !

Sorry, I'm still confused about your stack setup. I went back and 
re-read your posts but it still isn't clear to me. You say you have a 
card that is "three screens wide" -- by that I thought you meant 
multiples of 1024 pixels or more -- and yet you say it all fits on your 
monitor and is all visible at the same time. I don't see how that is 
possible, so I think we have a translation problem. You can apparently 
take a snapshot of the entire screen and see all the windows in it, so 
your card can't really be "three screens wide". But I'm confused.

I'll snip the stuff I wrote up that assumed you would export snapshots 
to a file. You want to use a variable.

> Well, this is where we fail:
> "If phenowindow is gardenwindow then
> export snapshot from rect 10,30,900,704 to screenbuff 
> - - (in this case we have to use relative rects, 
> contrary to when we use the print this card formula for the other 6 windows)
>  
> go stack printbuffer
> set the imagedata of image "Bufferimage" to screenbuff
> end if"
> ALAS, this does produce a change of the before empty image "Bufferimage", 
> but a totally messed up one, where you cannot recognize the structures of the window being snapshotted.

Try specifying an image format in your export command:

   export snapshot from rect 10,30,900,704 to screenbuff as GIF

See if that helps. Try JPEG as an alternative.


>  
> the images are no more than screen size-

So, you have three windows that all fit on the screen, and are not 
"screen sized" each?

Can anyone else jump in here? I've only got time to provide cursory 
help, and I'm apparently misunderstanding something.


> P.S.  In order to have postings to this site posted "into the thread" does one have to 
> subscribe to the list?

Generally only subscribed members can post, so I would think you are 
already subscribed. Usually to reply to a thread, you just hit the 
"reply" button in your email program and it assigns the correct threading.

Or are you reading the list from one of the archives? (Do any of those 
allow one to post?) If so, then yes, you'd have to subscribe.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From revolution at derbrill.de  Tue Nov 15 02:54:51 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 08:54:51 +0100
Subject: maze wall algorithm
In-Reply-To: <20051114225623.DD914824F75@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <19FA5CAA-55AD-11DA-97A8-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Hi Nicolas,

 >If given a maze in the form of a
 >grid such as this...

Adding to Scotts suggestions I have a few questions.

Will the maze be hard coded or does it change randomly?
Do you want to move through the grid cell by cell (to the center of 
each cell) or do you want to be able to move to any possible loc in the 
cell?
Is the object that moves through the maze steered by the user (hero) or 
by script (enemy)?

All the best,

Malte

---
ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes
http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine
http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum 



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Nov 15 03:28:36 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:28:36 +0100
Subject: DLL registering
Message-ID: <23295E91-495D-4103-92E3-54372027F81A@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi all,

On Win XP and/or 2000, what would be the script to register a DLL in  
order to make it available from Rev?
I'm rather a Mac man then help would be much appreciated :-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
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----------------------------------------------------------------
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Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Tue Nov 15 03:37:07 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:37:07 +0100
Subject: DLL registering
In-Reply-To: <23295E91-495D-4103-92E3-54372027F81A@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <OF2FD44B2D.97240AD0-ONC12570BA.002EBB3A-C12570BA.002F5B3B@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Eric,

here's the script from MetaCard's stack components...

on mouseUp
  local f
  if the platform is "Win32"
  then put "*.dll" into f
  else put "*" into f
  answer file "Choose an external:" with "external" with filter f
  if it is not empty then
    set the itemDelimiter to "/"
    if field "List" is not empty
    then put return after field "List"
    put the last item of it after field "List"
    set the externals of stack the label of button "Stack Name" to field 
"List"
  end if
end mouseUp

cheers 
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 15/11/2005 09:28:36:

> Hi all,
> 
> On Win XP and/or 2000, what would be the script to register a DLL in 
> order to make it available from Rev?
> I'm rather a Mac man then help would be much appreciated :-)
> 
> Best Regards from Paris,
> 
> Eric Chatonet.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> So Smart Software
> 
> For institutions, companies and associations
> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
> 
> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



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From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Nov 15 03:42:49 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:42:49 +0100
Subject: DLL registering
In-Reply-To: <OF2FD44B2D.97240AD0-ONC12570BA.002EBB3A-C12570BA.002F5B3B@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OF2FD44B2D.97240AD0-ONC12570BA.002EBB3A-C12570BA.002F5B3B@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <F7F3D1D1-11D8-4DA2-BDA4-784E03E74778@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Xavier,

Thanks.
But my problem is not this one: I know how to set an external in a  
stack but it's not enough : the DLL (installed by simple copy) has to  
be registered into the OS: that's the problem ;-)

Le 15 nov. 05 ? 09:37, xavier.bury at clearstream.com a ?crit :

> Hi Eric,
>
> here's the script from MetaCard's stack components...
>
> on mouseUp
>   local f
>   if the platform is "Win32"
>   then put "*.dll" into f
>   else put "*" into f
>   answer file "Choose an external:" with "external" with filter f
>   if it is not empty then
>     set the itemDelimiter to "/"
>     if field "List" is not empty
>     then put return after field "List"
>     put the last item of it after field "List"
>     set the externals of stack the label of button "Stack Name" to  
> field
> "List"
>   end if
> end mouseUp
>
> cheers
> Xavier

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
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Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
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----------------------------------------------------------------



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Tue Nov 15 03:44:45 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:44:45 +0100
Subject: DLL registering
In-Reply-To: <F7F3D1D1-11D8-4DA2-BDA4-784E03E74778@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <OFCE13DA97.5F156427-ONC12570BA.002FF6DB-C12570BA.00300DD5@deutsche-boerse.com>

Not that i know of. Last time i made a DLL (4 years ago), i just compiled 
it, copied to to the MC
folder where my stack was, added the external to the stack and it 
worked...

Something im missing?

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 15/11/2005 09:42:49:

> Hi Xavier,
> 
> Thanks.
> But my problem is not this one: I know how to set an external in a 
> stack but it's not enough : the DLL (installed by simple copy) has to 
> be registered into the OS: that's the problem ;-)
> 
> Le 15 nov. 05 ? 09:37, xavier.bury at clearstream.com a ?crit :
> 
> > Hi Eric,
> >
> > here's the script from MetaCard's stack components...
> >
> > on mouseUp
> >   local f
> >   if the platform is "Win32"
> >   then put "*.dll" into f
> >   else put "*" into f
> >   answer file "Choose an external:" with "external" with filter f
> >   if it is not empty then
> >     set the itemDelimiter to "/"
> >     if field "List" is not empty
> >     then put return after field "List"
> >     put the last item of it after field "List"
> >     set the externals of stack the label of button "Stack Name" to 
> > field
> > "List"
> >   end if
> > end mouseUp
> >
> > cheers
> > Xavier
> 
> Best Regards from Paris,
> 
> Eric Chatonet.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> So Smart Software
> 
> For institutions, companies and associations
> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
> 
> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



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Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

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The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
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From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Nov 15 03:49:05 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:49:05 +0100
Subject: DLL registering
In-Reply-To: <OFCE13DA97.5F156427-ONC12570BA.002FF6DB-C12570BA.00300DD5@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OFCE13DA97.5F156427-ONC12570BA.002FF6DB-C12570BA.00300DD5@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <C2D59B32-33DB-4A02-BD4F-DE73B88DD08C@sosmartsoftware.com>

Xavier,

I think there is something to do with regsvr32 trough a command line  
but don't know exactly what and how :-(

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 15 nov. 05 ? 09:44, xavier.bury at clearstream.com a ?crit :

> Not that i know of. Last time i made a DLL (4 years ago), i just  
> compiled
> it, copied to to the MC
> folder where my stack was, added the external to the stack and it
> worked...
>
> Something im missing?
>
> cheers
> Xavier
>
> use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 15/11/2005 09:42:49:
>
>> Hi Xavier,
>>
>> Thanks.
>> But my problem is not this one: I know how to set an external in a
>> stack but it's not enough : the DLL (installed by simple copy) has to
>> be registered into the OS: that's the problem ;-)
>>
>> Le 15 nov. 05 ? 09:37, xavier.bury at clearstream.com a ?crit :
>>
>>> Hi Eric,
>>>
>>> here's the script from MetaCard's stack components...
>>>
>>> on mouseUp
>>>   local f
>>>   if the platform is "Win32"
>>>   then put "*.dll" into f
>>>   else put "*" into f
>>>   answer file "Choose an external:" with "external" with filter f
>>>   if it is not empty then
>>>     set the itemDelimiter to "/"
>>>     if field "List" is not empty
>>>     then put return after field "List"
>>>     put the last item of it after field "List"
>>>     set the externals of stack the label of button "Stack Name" to
>>> field
>>> "List"
>>>   end if
>>> end mouseUp
>>>
>>> cheers
>>> Xavier
>>
>> Best Regards from Paris,
>>
>> Eric Chatonet.
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> So Smart Software
>>
>> For institutions, companies and associations
>> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
>> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>>
>> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
>> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
>> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
>> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Nov 15 03:59:56 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 02:59:56 -0600
Subject: DLL registering
In-Reply-To: <C2D59B32-33DB-4A02-BD4F-DE73B88DD08C@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <OFCE13DA97.5F156427-ONC12570BA.002FF6DB-C12570BA.00300DD5@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<C2D59B32-33DB-4A02-BD4F-DE73B88DD08C@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <4379A38C.1090801@chipp.com>

Hi Eric,

In order to use a DLL with RunRev there are a couple of things to know:

1) The DLL must be compiled specifically for RunRev; IOW, you can't just 
use any DLL with RR.

2) You don't need to register it. Just put it in the folder with the 
.exe and set the externals properly.

best,

Chipp



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Nov 15 04:03:17 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 10:03:17 +0100
Subject: DLL registering
In-Reply-To: <4379A38C.1090801@chipp.com>
References: <OFCE13DA97.5F156427-ONC12570BA.002FF6DB-C12570BA.00300DD5@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<C2D59B32-33DB-4A02-BD4F-DE73B88DD08C@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<4379A38C.1090801@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <6C7FB1EC-C1EB-47F1-A8B2-A49094429B69@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Chipp,

Thanks a lot.
But I wonder: what do you want to mean by 'The DLL must be compiled  
specifically for RunRev'?

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 15 nov. 05 ? 09:59, Chipp Walters a ?crit :

> Hi Eric,
>
> In order to use a DLL with RunRev there are a couple of things to  
> know:
>
> 1) The DLL must be compiled specifically for RunRev; IOW, you can't  
> just use any DLL with RR.
>
> 2) You don't need to register it. Just put it in the folder with  
> the .exe and set the externals properly.
>
> best,
>
> Chipp


----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Tue Nov 15 04:06:22 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 10:06:22 +0100
Subject: DLL registering
In-Reply-To: <6C7FB1EC-C1EB-47F1-A8B2-A49094429B69@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <OFC28F9F97.9181DA81-ONC12570BA.0031EF12-C12570BA.003208BD@deutsche-boerse.com>

Eric

Regular DLLs are made with "glue" to windows APIs and whatever app that 
calls it.

Here you need your DLL to have Rev-API glue to communicate with rev...

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 15/11/2005 10:03:17:

> Hi Chipp,
> 
> Thanks a lot.
> But I wonder: what do you want to mean by 'The DLL must be compiled 
> specifically for RunRev'?
> 
> Best Regards from Paris,
> 
> Eric Chatonet.
> 
> Le 15 nov. 05 ? 09:59, Chipp Walters a ?crit :
> 
> > Hi Eric,
> >
> > In order to use a DLL with RunRev there are a couple of things to 
> > know:
> >
> > 1) The DLL must be compiled specifically for RunRev; IOW, you can't 
> > just use any DLL with RR.
> >
> > 2) You don't need to register it. Just put it in the folder with 
> > the .exe and set the externals properly.
> >
> > best,
> >
> > Chipp
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> So Smart Software
> 
> For institutions, companies and associations
> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
> 
> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



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Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
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The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
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not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
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END OF DISCLAIMER


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Tue Nov 15 04:39:00 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 10:39:00 +0100
Subject: Serious Engine annoyance with is a folder on Win32...
In-Reply-To: <BF9ED9DB.2FC4C%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <OFB945A273.1F82C3B2-ONC12570BA.0034B4D9-C12570BA.0035059D@deutsche-boerse.com>

After further testing it seems ony Windows 2003 is affected. 

Windows 2000 is not (server or workstation)
Windows XP is not either.
NT4 (who cares?)

i'll have to be extra careful with W2K3 services made with Rev so it 
doesn't get blocked by this!

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 15/11/2005 07:18:35:

> On 11/14/05 11:20 PM, "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:
> 
> > Ken
> > 
> > These errors come from non-removable drives. But I see your point.
> 
> You get an error "Please insert a disk into drive F:" when drive F is 
not a
> removable disk? Wow...
> 
> I'd love to know why *that's* happening...
> 
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



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Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
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its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Nov 15 04:45:51 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 10:45:51 +0100
Subject: Check Modification Date of  single file?
In-Reply-To: <1C2A0F8C-C56E-4508-B871-34BA15BF1A7F@hindu.org>
References: <183134AA-A23B-48F8-8B1B-EB1E6804BC4D@hindu.org>
	<F54DC1CF-F990-4959-BAC5-F4E0DF99DA7B@major-k.de>
	<1C2A0F8C-C56E-4508-B871-34BA15BF1A7F@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <C6C445A5-6712-4303-BD30-866801C21252@major-k.de>

Hi Swami,

> Klaus, Aloha from Hawaii, I hope you don't have too cold a winter  
> over there, pray that the Gulf Stream doesn't stop...predicted to  
> soon -- maybe as soon as in next five years or so -- at which time  
> Europe freezes over;

what a nice outsight... :-/

> if it does you can move to Hawaii and help us here.

Wonderful, I'll take your word! :-)

> Detailed files: right, saw that... but thats returned from all  
> files in the defaultFolder... I looking to get that info from a  
> single file on a single path  (this list of file I have is in  
> multiple folders)

I saw that Richard already provided an efficient solution/function...

> Sivakatirswami

Best from cold germany ;-)

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Nov 15 04:48:59 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 10:48:59 +0100
Subject: ANN: New website
In-Reply-To: <B65B2A4C-DAA5-4A06-A929-F2BE82521C9E@easynet.fr>
References: <646A6417-BF6B-4353-A8A5-B4131A317480@major-k.de>
	<B65B2A4C-DAA5-4A06-A929-F2BE82521C9E@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <606A8A7F-5A9B-4133-B50A-3D23AEE36144@major-k.de>

Bonjour Pierre,

> A?e, a?e, a?e !

:-)

> All the ones whose did'nt switch to CSS2 are yet able to sse why we  
> need to do it, AS SOON AS POSSIBLE !!!

Hear, hear!!!

> Great and cool, Klaus :-)

Merci, mon ami!

> Best Regards,
>
> That's all for yet, Friends, Kind Regards, Pierre Sahores
>
> "A partir du moment o? on ?volue dans une activit? o? il n'y a pas  
> de place pour la fanfaronnade, on est oblig? de tomber sur des  
> personnages d'exception. Tous ces gens sont au limiteur." Pierre  
> Dupasquier

Regards from germany

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Tue Nov 15 05:39:25 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 10:39:25 +0000
Subject: Load URL returns error 10049
In-Reply-To: <20051115052610.1B6E1824F10@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051115052610.1B6E1824F10@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <0DE930DC-5854-4710-8DFC-7D12D0900BC1@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 15 Nov 2005, at 05:59, Dave Beck wrote:
>
> Erin, I had the user ping the web site that the script is trying to  
> access
> through Load URL and the ping returned:
>
>
>
> Ping statistics for 66.160.133.98
>
> Packets: Sent 4, Received 4, lost 0
>
> Approximate round trip minimum =72ms, maximum 78 ms, average 74ms

>
>
>
> So everything appears to be normal there. I also built I special  
> version of
> the stand alone that accesses the URL through the IP address as you
> suggested, but unfortunately she still received the same 10049 error.
>

What happens when she tries to connect to the same IP address out of  
a browser? Also, can you you have her use a Rev standalone to connect  
to some other URLs (e.g. http://www.yahoo.com, etc,) and see if the  
problem is limited to this address or others too.

>
> Any help anybody could offer would be greatly appreciated. Again, the
> problem is that the load URL command fails for this user when  
> trying to load
> a web page and the URLStatus function returns "error". Then the
> libURLErrorData function returns "10049". This problem is isolated  
> to this
> user and the stand alone has been distributed and works as expected  
> for over
> 50 others, as accessing the same hard coded URL.

Just to confirm, is the error literally "10049" or is there some  
other text such as "error on socket 10049"? Windows socket errors  
usually return a little bit more than just the number, so if that's  
all you're seeing, there might be something else going on.

Cheers
Dave


From esmale at welshpiper.com  Tue Nov 15 09:22:43 2005
From: esmale at welshpiper.com (Erin D. Smale)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:22:43 -0500
Subject: Load URL returns error 10049
In-Reply-To: <20051115052610.1B6E1824F10@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051115052610.1B6E1824F10@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <4379EF33.80807@welshpiper.com>

Hi Dave,

I would check to see how she gets her IP, just to rule out any oddity. 
She can ping the address, but if her DHCP settings are wonky, that 
address may not resolve to the correct site. So, yes, if you could get 
her IP (static or dynamic?), default gateway, subnet mask, and host file 
(if any), we might rule out some things.

Also, see what happens when she enters the address and URL in her 
browser directly--if she gets the same error, I'd say it's a problem 
with her IP setup; if she gets through, it's time for plan B. ;-)

-- Erin

Check out The Chimera RPG:
http://www.welshpiper.com



Dave Beck wrote:

> 
>
>First of all, many apologies for the triple post of the original message in
>this thread!! I had changed emails and experienced some "issues" with
>posting the message from an address that was not a subscribed to the list.
>The re-posting was definitely not intentional (sorry again!).
>
> 
>
>Dave, I had the user check to see if there were any proxy settings and the
>answer was no there are not any. Thanks for the suggestion though.
>
> 
>
>Erin, I had the user ping the web site that the script is trying to access
>through Load URL and the ping returned:
>
> 
>
>Ping statistics for 66.160.133.98
>
>Packets: Sent 4, Received 4, lost 0
>
>Approximate round trip minimum =72ms, maximum 78 ms, average 74ms
>
> 
>
>So everything appears to be normal there. I also built I special version of
>the stand alone that accesses the URL through the IP address as you
>suggested, but unfortunately she still received the same 10049 error.
>
> 
>
>Should I still try to determine show she's getting her own IP (e.g., is it
>static or assigned via DHCP), and / or what her default gateway is? (She
>already told me that she is not on an internal network or behind a
>firewall.) Or in light of the new info is that a moot point?
>
> 
>
>Sorry about the delay getting back to the list with results of these tests.
>It took until today for her to get back to me.
>
> 
>
>Any help anybody could offer would be greatly appreciated. Again, the
>problem is that the load URL command fails for this user when trying to load
>a web page and the URLStatus function returns "error". Then the
>libURLErrorData function returns "10049". This problem is isolated to this
>user and the stand alone has been distributed and works as expected for over
>50 others, as accessing the same hard coded URL.
>
> 
>
>Many thanks,
>
>Dave Beck
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
>  
>

-- 

_____________________
Erin D. Smale
Director of Web Services

Kraemer-Schurman Advertising & Design, Inc.
510 Chestnut St.
Emmaus, PA  18049
P: 610.965.7625 (x17)
F: 610.966.9155



From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Tue Nov 15 09:58:01 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 15:58:01 +0100
Subject: Problem with loop of array elements
In-Reply-To: <4379EF33.80807@welshpiper.com>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCMEFEDMAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hello,

I have a small script that extracts URLs from an HTML page (see below).
This works nicely if I do it step by step using the debugger.
But if I let it run, I get only every other URL with blank lines in between.
Does anybody have an idea what's going on?

Thomas

---
on mouseUp
  put cd fld "SaveFile" into theSearchFile
  open file theSearchFile
  read from file theSearchFile until end
  close file theSearchFile
  put it into theSearchResult
  get 1
  repeat while numToChar(it) is in theSearchResult
    add 1 to it
  end repeat
  replace "<p class=g>" with numToChar(it) in theSearchResult
  split theSearchResult by numToChar(it)
  put empty into theSearchResult[1]
  put empty into foundURLs
  repeat for each element foundURL in theSearchResult
    split foundURL by quote
    put foundURL[2] & return after foundURLs
  end repeat
  repeat while char 1 of foundURLs is return
    delete char 1 of foundURLs
  end repeat
  put "file:" & theSearchFile & "-Links" into theSearchFile
  put foundURLs into URL theSearchFile
end mouseUp

--
Thomas Fischer
Salzburg 





From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Tue Nov 15 02:14:57 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 02:14:57 -0500
Subject: MC/RR and QT movies on Linux
Message-ID: <web-339149756@mail.maclaunch.com>

I am just about to see what can be done with
"OpenQuicktime" ( http://www.openquicktime.org/ ) as it M I
G H T be the answer to bl**dy xanim.

Those of you who haven't blotted your copybook with the
folks at RunRev (My God, they take a long time forgiving
things) could mention OpenQuicktime in their shell-like
ears.

I'll keep you posted!

Love, Richmond Mathewson

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From asharp at salesconcepts.com  Tue Nov 15 11:15:09 2005
From: asharp at salesconcepts.com (Andrew Sharp)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:15:09 -0500
Subject: revCopyFile progress bar
In-Reply-To: <20051115081132.AE88282507A@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051115081132.AE88282507A@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a06020407bf9fb914eb44@[192.168.2.3]>

Hello everyone,

Is it possible to have a progress bar while a file is being copied to 
a server with the revCopyFile command. The files are fairly large and 
take a minute or so to copy. The computer is actually copying the 
file but to the user it appears as if the computer has locked up.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
Andrew


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Nov 15 11:25:10 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 08:25:10 -0800
Subject: DLL registering
In-Reply-To: <F7F3D1D1-11D8-4DA2-BDA4-784E03E74778@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <OF2FD44B2D.97240AD0-ONC12570BA.002EBB3A-C12570BA.002F5B3B@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<F7F3D1D1-11D8-4DA2-BDA4-784E03E74778@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <15586145831.20051115082510@ahsoftware.net>

Eric-

Tuesday, November 15, 2005, 12:42:49 AM, you wrote:

Xavier's right. The DLL shouldn't have to be registered with the OS in
order for runrev to use it. I take it this isn't a DLL that you've
made yourself?

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Nov 15 11:24:27 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:24:27 +0100
Subject: DLL registering
In-Reply-To: <15586145831.20051115082510@ahsoftware.net>
References: <OF2FD44B2D.97240AD0-ONC12570BA.002EBB3A-C12570BA.002F5B3B@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<F7F3D1D1-11D8-4DA2-BDA4-784E03E74778@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<15586145831.20051115082510@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <28A2FCE1-BEF7-4FC7-8E0F-5A84E803D16A@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Mark,

No I did not made the DLL myself but I know the guy who did: I'm  
trying to help him.
Any clues I could tell him?

Le 15 nov. 05 ? 17:25, Mark Wieder a ?crit :

> Xavier's right. The DLL shouldn't have to be registered with the OS in
> order for runrev to use it. I take it this isn't a DLL that you've
> made yourself?

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Nov 15 11:25:49 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 10:25:49 -0600
Subject: Revolution and DLLs (was Re: DLL registering) [Long]
In-Reply-To: <6C7FB1EC-C1EB-47F1-A8B2-A49094429B69@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <BF9F682D.2FCB5%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/15/05 3:03 AM, "Eric Chatonet" <eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com>
wrote:

> Thanks a lot.
> But I wonder: what do you want to mean by 'The DLL must be compiled
> specifically for RunRev'?

Let me step in here - there's actually two things to talk about: the first
is what it means to be 'compiled specifically for RunRev', and the other is
how to work with "normal" Windows DLLs from Rev.

Here's the basic situation: When you build a DLL under Windows, you need to
provide information in the DLL that provides other applications the ability
to call on the function(s) in the DLL (its API). DLLs that are used by most
third party Windows apps have a common (standard) API.

Revolution, on the other hand, requires a specific API be used that is *not*
the same one used by other third-party DLLs, and is designed so that RunRev
can "attach" the DLL to a stack and you can just naturally call the
functions inside it (like the revXML DLL). You can download the Externals
toolkit from RunRev and I believe there's information in there about what is
required.

As to third-party DLLs that use the common API (which I'll call "Non-Rev
DLLs"), you *can* use them with Revolution, it's just that it takes an
intermediary 'agent' to take the request from Rev, pass it off to the DLL,
and return a result. I have done this with DLLs that I've created in Visual
Basic - the intermediary 'agent' in this case was the execution of a VBS
script from Rev (more on this in a minute).

To register a Non-Rev DLL, you use the 'regsvr32' command line. The DLL
doesn't have to be in the Windows directory; it can be anywhere - you just
will be passing in the path to the DLL when you register it (and DON'T MOVE
IT after it's been registered! :-)

Here's the handlers I use for registering and unregistering these DLLs
(watch line wraps):

on stsRegisterDLL pDLLPath,pClass
  if pClass ="" then put "Main" into pClass
  set the itemDel to "/"
  put last item of pDLLPath into tDLLName
  put char 1 to (length(tDLLName) - 4) of tDLLName into tShortDLLName
  delete last item of pDLLPath
  replace "/" with "\" in pDLLPath

  if not(_stsIsRegistered(tShortDLLName,pClass)) then
    set the hideConsoleWindows to true
    get shell("cd" && q(pDLLPath)  && "& regsvr32 /s" && tDLLName)
    -- Note that calling regsvr32 with the /s param will NOT return
    -- any errors back to the command line, so we'll need to
    -- check AGAIN to make sure it was registered properly
    if not(_stsIsRegistered(tShortDLLName,pClass)) then
      return "Error: Could not register DLL."
    end if
  end if
end stsRegisterDLL

on stsUnregisterDLL pDLLPath,pClass
  if pClass ="" then put "Main" into pClass
  set the itemDel to "/"
  put last item of pDLLPath into tDLLName
  put char 1 to (length(tDLLName) - 4) of tDLLName into tShortDLLName
  delete last item of pDLLPath
  replace "/" with "\" in pDLLPath

  if _stsIsRegistered(tShortDLLName,pClass) then
    set the hideConsoleWindows to true
    get shell("cd" && q(pDLLPath)  && "& regsvr32 /u /s" && tDLLName)
    -- Note that calling regsvr32 with the /s param will NOT return any
    -- errors back to the command line, so we'll need to
    -- check AGAIN to make sure it was unregistered properly
    if _stsIsRegistered(tShortDLLName,pClass) then
      return "Error: Could not unregister DLL."
    end if
  end if
end stsUnregisterDLL

function _stsIsRegistered pShortDLLName,pClass
  -- First check for the key at HKCR\<DLLName>.<Method>
  put queryRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\" & pShortDLLName & "." & \
    pClass & "\CLSID\") into tCLSID
  put true into tRetVal
  if (tCLSID= "bad key") or (tCLSID="") then
    put false into tRetVal
  else
    -- Check CLSID key to make sure
    put queryRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\" & tCLSID & "\") into
tResult
    if tResult = "bad key" then
      put false into tRetVal
    end if
  end if
  return tRetVal
end _stsIsRegistered


CALLING A NON-REV DLL FROM REV
=======================

Now to actually call a Non-Rev DLL from Rev, you need to do six things:

1) Move the DLL file to where you want it to reside (could be inside the
WIndows or Windows/System32 directory, or anywhere you like so long as you
don't move it)

2) Create a class name that you'll use to register and call on the DLL. It
can be anything you like, but must be one word (AFAICT).

3) Register the DLL with the handler I provided above, passing in the path
to the DLL and the class name you want to use.

4) Create a VBS file that attaches to the DLL and executes a function in the
DLL, returning the result.

5) Run the VBS script from Rev, and get your result back.

6) Delete the VBS script (just to be neat and clean).


Here's an example of a VB DLL that I wrote that will get the type of a
file... the VB function name is called "GetFileType" and calls on the OS to
return the type of a file (this is a string like "Microsoft Word document").
This uses the Windows FileSystemObject and looks like this inside VB:

Public Function GetFileType(ByVal pFilePath As String) As String
    Dim fso As New Scripting.FileSystemObject
    Set tFile = fso.GetFile(pFilePath)
    GetFileType = tFile.Type
End Function

The name of the DLL I created from VB was called "STSFile.dll", and the
class I picked to use was "FileMgr".

So with the DLL created, and the class name selected, I created this script
in a button in Rev (I had already filled the global gDLLPath with the path
to the STSFile.dll file):

---
global gDLLPath

on mouseUp
  answer file "Pick a file:"
  if it <> "" then
    put it into tFile
    stsRegisterDLL gDLLPath,"FileMgr"
    answer GetFileType(tFile)
  end if
end mouseUp

function GetFileType pPath
  replace "/" with "\" in pPath
  put "On Error Resume Next" & cr into tVBS
  put tVBS & "Dim obj" & cr into tVBS
  put tVBS & "Set obj=CreateObject(" & q("STSFile.FileMgr") & ")" & \
    cr into tVBS
  put tVBS & "tResult = obj.GetFileType(" & q(pPath) & ")" & cr into tVBS
  put tVBS & "If Err.Number = 0 Then" & cr into tVBS
  put tVBS & "WScript.Echo tResult" & cr into tVBS
  put tVBS & "Else" & cr into tVBS
  put tVBS & "WScript.Echo" && q("Error:") & " & Err.Number" & cr into tVBS
  put tVBS & "End If" into tVBS
  
  return stsDoVBS(tVBS)
end GetFileType

function stsDoVBS pScript
  return _doVBS(pScript)
end stsDoVBS

function _doVBS pVBScript,pDirectConsole
  if pDirectConsole = "" then
    put "C:\VBS_temp.vbs" into tVBSPath
    put pVBScript into url ("file:" & tVBSPath)
    set the hideConsoleWindows to true
    get shell("cscript.exe //nologo" && tVBSPath)
  else
    set the hideConsoleWindows to true
    get shell("cscript.exe" && pVBScript)
  end if
  put it into tResult
  if there is a file tVBSPath then
    send "delete file" && quote & tVBSPath & quote to me in 1 second
  end if
  if tResult <> "" then return tResult
end _doVBS
---

The key things to point out are:

1) The "stsRegisterDLL" command needs the path to the DLL class name passed
(in this case "FileMgr").

2) That in the VBS created in the GetFileType handler, you'll notice that
has "CreateObject" on it - you need to put in the name of the DLL (minus the
extension), followed by a dot, and then the class. So if your DLL is called
"EricTest.dll" and the class you picked was "Sample", you'd do:

  put tVBS & "Set obj=CreateObject(" & q("EricTest.Sample") & ")" & \
    cr into tVBS

3) The _doVBS function handles the creation of the script, execution, and
deletion of the file, so you don't need to manage the cleanup.

4) Since the VBS file only connects to a DLL and executes a function,
there's no way for Windows to know whether the function is bad or good, so
virus protection software won't intercept the attempt to call the DLL (so
you don't get any "suspicious warning" dialogs like you might get if you
called the FileSystemObject directly from a VBS script file).

5) When you register your DLL, it will go into the registry into
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT, under the extension listings, and will have a key of
<dllname>.<class> - so in my example above, there would be a registry key
called "STSFile.FlieMgr".

You can call other third-party Non-Rev DLLs the same way - you just need to
know if they are registered, and if so, the name of the function inside the
DLL you need, and finally, what class has been picked by the developer for
the DLL (which you can find in the Registry as well in the same location and
format as I mentioned in (5) above).


Anyway, that's it - it's probably better to create a Rev-specific DLL that
you can call directly from inside Rev, but if you don't know how to do that,
or you need to access other third-party Non-Rev DLLs, you can use the
approach I mention above.

Enjoy!


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Nov 15 11:29:53 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 10:29:53 -0600
Subject: revCopyFile progress bar
In-Reply-To: <a06020407bf9fb914eb44@[192.168.2.3]>
Message-ID: <BF9F6921.2FCB9%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/15/05 10:15 AM, "Andrew Sharp" <asharp at salesconcepts.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
> 
> Is it possible to have a progress bar while a file is being copied to
> a server with the revCopyFile command. The files are fairly large and
> take a minute or so to copy. The computer is actually copying the
> file but to the user it appears as if the computer has locked up.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Well, without actually modifying the code for revCopyFile, the answer is
"sort of" - that is, you can bring up your own progress bar with a dummy
starting value that just hangs there until revCopyFile is completed, and
then snaps to 100% and closes. But to actually have the progress bar
relative to the progress of the copy itself, that's unfortunately not
possible.

Personally, I'd put up a dialog or palette window with a statement like
"Copying... this may take a minute or two" and set the cursor to watch.


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 15 11:30:35 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 08:30:35 -0800
Subject: Problem with loop of array elements
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCMEFEDMAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <BF9F4D2B.307C4%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

On 11/15/05 6:58 AM, "Thomas Fischer" <fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
wrote:

> open file theSearchFile
>   read from file theSearchFile until end
>   close file theSearchFile
>   put it into theSearchResult
Suggestion:  instead of these 4 lines, consider

put url ("file:/" & theSearchFile) into theSearchResult

Jim Ault
Las Vegas




From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Nov 15 11:33:26 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:33:26 +0100
Subject: Revolution and DLLs (was Re: DLL registering) [Long]
In-Reply-To: <BF9F682D.2FCB5%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF9F682D.2FCB5%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <B10165AD-26F7-4AF4-A913-AD3D91497D44@sosmartsoftware.com>

Ken,

You rock!
Thanks a big lot for all this clarification :-)
I have to dig in...

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 15 nov. 05 ? 17:25, Ken Ray a ?crit :

> On 11/15/05 3:03 AM, "Eric Chatonet"  
> <eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks a lot.
>> But I wonder: what do you want to mean by 'The DLL must be compiled
>> specifically for RunRev'?
>
> Let me step in here - there's actually two things to talk about:  
> the first
> is what it means to be 'compiled specifically for RunRev', and the  
> other is
> how to work with "normal" Windows DLLs from Rev.
>
> Here's the basic situation: When you build a DLL under Windows, you  
> need to
> provide information in the DLL that provides other applications the  
> ability
> to call on the function(s) in the DLL (its API). DLLs that are used  
> by most
> third party Windows apps have a common (standard) API.
>
> Revolution, on the other hand, requires a specific API be used that  
> is *not*
> the same one used by other third-party DLLs, and is designed so  
> that RunRev
> can "attach" the DLL to a stack and you can just naturally call the
> functions inside it (like the revXML DLL). You can download the  
> Externals
> toolkit from RunRev and I believe there's information in there  
> about what is
> required.
>
> As to third-party DLLs that use the common API (which I'll call  
> "Non-Rev
> DLLs"), you *can* use them with Revolution, it's just that it takes an
> intermediary 'agent' to take the request from Rev, pass it off to  
> the DLL,
> and return a result. I have done this with DLLs that I've created  
> in Visual
> Basic - the intermediary 'agent' in this case was the execution of  
> a VBS
> script from Rev (more on this in a minute).
>
> To register a Non-Rev DLL, you use the 'regsvr32' command line. The  
> DLL
> doesn't have to be in the Windows directory; it can be anywhere -  
> you just
> will be passing in the path to the DLL when you register it (and  
> DON'T MOVE
> IT after it's been registered! :-)
>
> Here's the handlers I use for registering and unregistering these DLLs
> (watch line wraps):
>
> on stsRegisterDLL pDLLPath,pClass
>   if pClass ="" then put "Main" into pClass
>   set the itemDel to "/"
>   put last item of pDLLPath into tDLLName
>   put char 1 to (length(tDLLName) - 4) of tDLLName into tShortDLLName
>   delete last item of pDLLPath
>   replace "/" with "\" in pDLLPath
>
>   if not(_stsIsRegistered(tShortDLLName,pClass)) then
>     set the hideConsoleWindows to true
>     get shell("cd" && q(pDLLPath)  && "& regsvr32 /s" && tDLLName)
>     -- Note that calling regsvr32 with the /s param will NOT return
>     -- any errors back to the command line, so we'll need to
>     -- check AGAIN to make sure it was registered properly
>     if not(_stsIsRegistered(tShortDLLName,pClass)) then
>       return "Error: Could not register DLL."
>     end if
>   end if
> end stsRegisterDLL
>
> on stsUnregisterDLL pDLLPath,pClass
>   if pClass ="" then put "Main" into pClass
>   set the itemDel to "/"
>   put last item of pDLLPath into tDLLName
>   put char 1 to (length(tDLLName) - 4) of tDLLName into tShortDLLName
>   delete last item of pDLLPath
>   replace "/" with "\" in pDLLPath
>
>   if _stsIsRegistered(tShortDLLName,pClass) then
>     set the hideConsoleWindows to true
>     get shell("cd" && q(pDLLPath)  && "& regsvr32 /u /s" && tDLLName)
>     -- Note that calling regsvr32 with the /s param will NOT return  
> any
>     -- errors back to the command line, so we'll need to
>     -- check AGAIN to make sure it was unregistered properly
>     if _stsIsRegistered(tShortDLLName,pClass) then
>       return "Error: Could not unregister DLL."
>     end if
>   end if
> end stsUnregisterDLL
>
> function _stsIsRegistered pShortDLLName,pClass
>   -- First check for the key at HKCR\<DLLName>.<Method>
>   put queryRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\" & pShortDLLName & "." & \
>     pClass & "\CLSID\") into tCLSID
>   put true into tRetVal
>   if (tCLSID= "bad key") or (tCLSID="") then
>     put false into tRetVal
>   else
>     -- Check CLSID key to make sure
>     put queryRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\" & tCLSID & "\") into
> tResult
>     if tResult = "bad key" then
>       put false into tRetVal
>     end if
>   end if
>   return tRetVal
> end _stsIsRegistered
>
>
> CALLING A NON-REV DLL FROM REV
> =======================
>
> Now to actually call a Non-Rev DLL from Rev, you need to do six  
> things:
>
> 1) Move the DLL file to where you want it to reside (could be  
> inside the
> WIndows or Windows/System32 directory, or anywhere you like so long  
> as you
> don't move it)
>
> 2) Create a class name that you'll use to register and call on the  
> DLL. It
> can be anything you like, but must be one word (AFAICT).
>
> 3) Register the DLL with the handler I provided above, passing in  
> the path
> to the DLL and the class name you want to use.
>
> 4) Create a VBS file that attaches to the DLL and executes a  
> function in the
> DLL, returning the result.
>
> 5) Run the VBS script from Rev, and get your result back.
>
> 6) Delete the VBS script (just to be neat and clean).
>
>
> Here's an example of a VB DLL that I wrote that will get the type of a
> file... the VB function name is called "GetFileType" and calls on  
> the OS to
> return the type of a file (this is a string like "Microsoft Word  
> document").
> This uses the Windows FileSystemObject and looks like this inside VB:
>
> Public Function GetFileType(ByVal pFilePath As String) As String
>     Dim fso As New Scripting.FileSystemObject
>     Set tFile = fso.GetFile(pFilePath)
>     GetFileType = tFile.Type
> End Function
>
> The name of the DLL I created from VB was called "STSFile.dll", and  
> the
> class I picked to use was "FileMgr".
>
> So with the DLL created, and the class name selected, I created  
> this script
> in a button in Rev (I had already filled the global gDLLPath with  
> the path
> to the STSFile.dll file):
>
> ---
> global gDLLPath
>
> on mouseUp
>   answer file "Pick a file:"
>   if it <> "" then
>     put it into tFile
>     stsRegisterDLL gDLLPath,"FileMgr"
>     answer GetFileType(tFile)
>   end if
> end mouseUp
>
> function GetFileType pPath
>   replace "/" with "\" in pPath
>   put "On Error Resume Next" & cr into tVBS
>   put tVBS & "Dim obj" & cr into tVBS
>   put tVBS & "Set obj=CreateObject(" & q("STSFile.FileMgr") & ")" & \
>     cr into tVBS
>   put tVBS & "tResult = obj.GetFileType(" & q(pPath) & ")" & cr  
> into tVBS
>   put tVBS & "If Err.Number = 0 Then" & cr into tVBS
>   put tVBS & "WScript.Echo tResult" & cr into tVBS
>   put tVBS & "Else" & cr into tVBS
>   put tVBS & "WScript.Echo" && q("Error:") & " & Err.Number" & cr  
> into tVBS
>   put tVBS & "End If" into tVBS
>
>   return stsDoVBS(tVBS)
> end GetFileType
>
> function stsDoVBS pScript
>   return _doVBS(pScript)
> end stsDoVBS
>
> function _doVBS pVBScript,pDirectConsole
>   if pDirectConsole = "" then
>     put "C:\VBS_temp.vbs" into tVBSPath
>     put pVBScript into url ("file:" & tVBSPath)
>     set the hideConsoleWindows to true
>     get shell("cscript.exe //nologo" && tVBSPath)
>   else
>     set the hideConsoleWindows to true
>     get shell("cscript.exe" && pVBScript)
>   end if
>   put it into tResult
>   if there is a file tVBSPath then
>     send "delete file" && quote & tVBSPath & quote to me in 1 second
>   end if
>   if tResult <> "" then return tResult
> end _doVBS
> ---
>
> The key things to point out are:
>
> 1) The "stsRegisterDLL" command needs the path to the DLL class  
> name passed
> (in this case "FileMgr").
>
> 2) That in the VBS created in the GetFileType handler, you'll  
> notice that
> has "CreateObject" on it - you need to put in the name of the DLL  
> (minus the
> extension), followed by a dot, and then the class. So if your DLL  
> is called
> "EricTest.dll" and the class you picked was "Sample", you'd do:
>
>   put tVBS & "Set obj=CreateObject(" & q("EricTest.Sample") & ")" & \
>     cr into tVBS
>
> 3) The _doVBS function handles the creation of the script,  
> execution, and
> deletion of the file, so you don't need to manage the cleanup.
>
> 4) Since the VBS file only connects to a DLL and executes a function,
> there's no way for Windows to know whether the function is bad or  
> good, so
> virus protection software won't intercept the attempt to call the  
> DLL (so
> you don't get any "suspicious warning" dialogs like you might get  
> if you
> called the FileSystemObject directly from a VBS script file).
>
> 5) When you register your DLL, it will go into the registry into
> HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT, under the extension listings, and will have a  
> key of
> <dllname>.<class> - so in my example above, there would be a  
> registry key
> called "STSFile.FlieMgr".
>
> You can call other third-party Non-Rev DLLs the same way - you just  
> need to
> know if they are registered, and if so, the name of the function  
> inside the
> DLL you need, and finally, what class has been picked by the  
> developer for
> the DLL (which you can find in the Registry as well in the same  
> location and
> format as I mentioned in (5) above).
>
>
> Anyway, that's it - it's probably better to create a Rev-specific  
> DLL that
> you can call directly from inside Rev, but if you don't know how to  
> do that,
> or you need to access other third-party Non-Rev DLLs, you can use the
> approach I mention above.
>
> Enjoy!
>
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Nov 15 12:07:27 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:07:27 -0800
Subject: Revolution and DLLs (was Re: DLL registering) [Long]
In-Reply-To: <BF9F682D.2FCB5%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF9F682D.2FCB5%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <19088682869.20051115090727@ahsoftware.net>

Ken-

Tuesday, November 15, 2005, 8:25:49 AM, you wrote:

Awesome post.

> 4) Since the VBS file only connects to a DLL and executes a function,
> there's no way for Windows to know whether the function is bad or good, so
> virus protection software won't intercept the attempt to call the DLL (so

Mostly true. Depends on your virus checker and its settings. It's
possible (and may be probable, if that's not an oxymoron) that
antivirus software would warn about the execution of *any* vbs file.
So the usual caveat about vbs and antivirus interaction still applies.
Just something for the user to be aware of, not a stumbling block.

The other related issue is that if this is installed on a user's
system, the vbs file must be installed into a directory for which the
user has the proper permissions to install and delete and run files.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Nov 15 12:12:42 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:12:42 -0800
Subject: DLL registering
In-Reply-To: <28A2FCE1-BEF7-4FC7-8E0F-5A84E803D16A@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <OF2FD44B2D.97240AD0-ONC12570BA.002EBB3A-C12570BA.002F5B3B@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<F7F3D1D1-11D8-4DA2-BDA4-784E03E74778@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<15586145831.20051115082510@ahsoftware.net>
	<28A2FCE1-BEF7-4FC7-8E0F-5A84E803D16A@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <1388998483.20051115091242@ahsoftware.net>

Eric-

Tuesday, November 15, 2005, 8:24:27 AM, you wrote:

> No I did not made the DLL myself but I know the guy who did: I'm
> trying to help him.
> Any clues I could tell him?

I'll defer to Ken's great post here, but adding the "glue" to the DLL
shouldn't be that big a deal. That's the way I would go if this isn't
just a one-shot thing for your own use.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Tue Nov 15 12:08:34 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 18:08:34 +0100
Subject: AW: Problem with loop of array elements
In-Reply-To: <BF9F4D2B.307C4%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCMEFJDMAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hi Jim,

> > open file theSearchFile
> >   read from file theSearchFile until end
> >   close file theSearchFile
> >   put it into theSearchResult
> Suggestion:  instead of these 4 lines, consider
> 
> put url ("file:/" & theSearchFile) into theSearchResult

Yes, you're right, I'm sticking unnecessarily to my old Perl and HyperTalk habits.

I got the loop to work using

 repeat with i = 2 to the number of lines in the keys of theSearchResult
   put theSearchResult[i] into theString
   split theString by quote
   put theString[2] & return after foundURLs
 end repeat

but am still somewhat worried about the difference between debugging and running in the original script.

Thomas



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Nov 15 12:17:18 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:17:18 -0600
Subject: Revolution and DLLs (was Re: DLL registering) [Long]
In-Reply-To: <19088682869.20051115090727@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <BF9F743E.2FCC6%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/15/05 11:07 AM, "Mark Wieder" <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:

> Ken-
> 
> Tuesday, November 15, 2005, 8:25:49 AM, you wrote:
> 
> Awesome post.

Thanks!
 
>> 4) Since the VBS file only connects to a DLL and executes a function,
>> there's no way for Windows to know whether the function is bad or good, so
>> virus protection software won't intercept the attempt to call the DLL (so
> 
> Mostly true. Depends on your virus checker and its settings. It's
> possible (and may be probable, if that's not an oxymoron) that
> antivirus software would warn about the execution of *any* vbs file.
> So the usual caveat about vbs and antivirus interaction still applies.
> Just something for the user to be aware of, not a stumbling block.

Good point - actually it would be good to start a list of antivirus software
that does this (either as a default behavior or as an optional one). Do you
know any off the top of your head that do this? (I've been a Symantec/Norton
user for a while and it only has a "Script Blocking" feature that seems to
intercept potentially malicious scripts (i.e. those that manipulate the file
system), and it doesn't mess with my DLL code.)
 
> The other related issue is that if this is installed on a user's
> system, the vbs file must be installed into a directory for which the
> user has the proper permissions to install and delete and run files.

Absolutely true - my code example puts things briefly on the C: drive itself
(which is *usually* available), but YMMV.

Thanks, Mark!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From soapdog at mac.com  Tue Nov 15 12:25:52 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 15:25:52 -0200
Subject: revCopyFile progress bar
In-Reply-To: <a06020407bf9fb914eb44@[192.168.2.3]>
References: <20051115081132.AE88282507A@mail.runrev.com>
	<a06020407bf9fb914eb44@[192.168.2.3]>
Message-ID: <4E02D80A-3E8B-4C46-8CB8-9520E68459C7@mac.com>


On Nov 15, 2005, at 2:15 PM, Andrew Sharp wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> Is it possible to have a progress bar while a file is being copied  
> to a server with the revCopyFile command. The files are fairly  
> large and take a minute or so to copy. The computer is actually  
> copying the file but to the user it appears as if the computer has  
> locked up.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
> Andrew

Andrew,

the revolution image library comes with some colorful indeterminate  
progress bar... they will not go from 1 to 100%, but they will spin  
forever. That's what I use when I don't know how to measure time. I  
have a 'busy' handler that shows the thing, and a "notBusy" handler  
that hides...

cheers
andre


> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Nov 15 13:33:23 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 12:33:23 -0600
Subject: Revolution and DLLs (was Re: DLL registering) [Long]
In-Reply-To: <BF9F682D.2FCB5%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BF9F682D.2FCB5%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <437A29F3.50700@hyperactivesw.com>

Ken Ray wrote:
> On 11/15/05 3:03 AM, "Eric Chatonet" <eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com>
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Thanks a lot.
>>But I wonder: what do you want to mean by 'The DLL must be compiled
>>specifically for RunRev'?
> 
> 
> Let me step in here - there's actually two things to talk about: the first
> is what it means to be 'compiled specifically for RunRev', and the other is
> how to work with "normal" Windows DLLs from Rev.

<snip excellent post>

Ken, this is going on your web site tips page, right? ;)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Nov 15 14:01:50 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:01:50 -0800
Subject: Unicode in Window Title?
Message-ID: <65EC5440-A07F-4757-AFE1-7FB1A259EC16@mangomultimedia.com>

Has anyone been able to display Unicode in a window title on OS X?   
When I set the title property for a stack (which has textFont set to  
",Unicode") to a Unicode string I just get garbage characters.  I'm  
trying to get Russian to display properly.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Nov 15 14:02:32 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:02:32 -0600
Subject: Revolution and DLLs (was Re: DLL registering) [Long]
In-Reply-To: <437A29F3.50700@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <BF9F8CE8.2FCE7%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/15/05 12:33 PM, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote:

> Ken Ray wrote:
>> On 11/15/05 3:03 AM, "Eric Chatonet" <eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> Thanks a lot.
>>> But I wonder: what do you want to mean by 'The DLL must be compiled
>>> specifically for RunRev'?
>> 
>> 
>> Let me step in here - there's actually two things to talk about: the first
>> is what it means to be 'compiled specifically for RunRev', and the other is
>> how to work with "normal" Windows DLLs from Rev.
> 
> <snip excellent post>
> 
> Ken, this is going on your web site tips page, right? ;)

Right away...

:-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com




From powai903 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 15 14:15:19 2005
From: powai903 at yahoo.com (Vikram Singh)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:15:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: revCopyFile progress bar
In-Reply-To: <4E02D80A-3E8B-4C46-8CB8-9520E68459C7@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20051115191519.60040.qmail@web51011.mail.yahoo.com>

Maybe you can embed a small browser (without borders etc... I am talking of Chipp's external) and play the GIF  animation in the browser, rather than in the stack directly (if I remember, it will lock up/freeze too). I *think* the browser should not. 
   
   
  Just my 2 cents
  

On Nov 15, 2005, at 2:15 PM, Andrew Sharp wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> Is it possible to have a progress bar while a file is being copied 
> to a server with the revCopyFile command. The files are fairly 
> large and take a minute or so to copy. The computer is actually 
> copying the file but to the user it appears as if the computer has 
> locked up.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
> Andrew


		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.  

From soapdog at mac.com  Tue Nov 15 14:53:07 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:53:07 -0200
Subject: revCopyFile progress bar
In-Reply-To: <20051115191519.60040.qmail@web51011.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051115191519.60040.qmail@web51011.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D7A22413-2C74-4130-8EE7-2DF4AA7F062F@mac.com>


On Nov 15, 2005, at 5:15 PM, Vikram Singh wrote:

> Maybe you can embed a small browser (without borders etc... I am  
> talking of Chipp's external) and play the GIF  animation in the  
> browser, rather than in the stack directly (if I remember, it will  
> lock up/freeze too). I *think* the browser should not.
>
>
>   Just my 2 cents

Vikram Singh,

Revolution don't need altBrowser to display animated gifs... :)

cheers
andre

From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Nov 15 14:59:03 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:59:03 -0800
Subject: Unicode in Window Title?
In-Reply-To: <65EC5440-A07F-4757-AFE1-7FB1A259EC16@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <65EC5440-A07F-4757-AFE1-7FB1A259EC16@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <2A0F8C96-AA6C-46C3-91D9-3A9DFB8C9116@mangomultimedia.com>

On Nov 15, 2005, at 11:01 AM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> Has anyone been able to display Unicode in a window title on OS X?   
> When I set the title property for a stack (which has textFont set  
> to ",Unicode") to a Unicode string I just get garbage characters.   
> I'm trying to get Russian to display properly.

Same question as above, but for tooltips.  I can't get unicode text  
to display properly in tooltips either.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From wdesmet at wanadoo.nl  Tue Nov 15 15:16:55 2005
From: wdesmet at wanadoo.nl (William de Smet)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 21:16:55 +0100
Subject: How to lock a field after a drag?
Message-ID: <A0F6C525-235D-4AFD-BA90-978611129C06@wanadoo.nl>

Hi there,

As a newbie I'm trying to do the following with a field:
drag field "1"  onto  field "2" and then count 1 up in a field   
called "score"  (field "1" must then be locked  until field " score"  
is five and next  field "1"  must be  draggable again.

So far I use the following code:
---------------------------------------------
on mouseDown
   grab me
   set cursor to 28
   lock cursor
   end mouseDown

on mouseup
   unlock cursor
   set cursor to arrow
if intersect(me,field "2") then
  move me to the loc of field "2"
  add 1 to field  "score"
end if
end mouseup
---------------------------------------------

I thought I use 'set mousedown on me to false'  after " add 1 to  
field "score" but that doesn't work because I can still drag the field
I need help, anyone?


Thanks, William de Smet

From powai903 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 15 16:21:50 2005
From: powai903 at yahoo.com (Vikram Singh)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:21:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: revCopyFile progress bar
In-Reply-To: <D7A22413-2C74-4130-8EE7-2DF4AA7F062F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20051115212150.26579.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com>

Yes Sir, i know that ;)
   
  The problem as I got it is that the stack freezes till the end of the activity, since it is single threaded appl. And the GIF freezes at the current frame, i remember having done something like this 2 yrs back. If it doesnt, then great!
   
  I dont know though whether the browser window is refreshed independently (may not be).
   
  Mybe i'm not being articulate enuff,
  cheers
  vikram
  

Andre Garzia <soapdog at mac.com> wrote:
  
On Nov 15, 2005, at 5:15 PM, Vikram Singh wrote:

> Maybe you can embed a small browser (without borders etc... I am 
> talking of Chipp's external) and play the GIF animation in the 
> browser, rather than in the stack directly (if I remember, it will 
> lock up/freeze too). I *think* the browser should not.
>
>
> Just my 2 cents

Vikram Singh,

Revolution don't need altBrowser to display animated gifs... :)

cheers
andre
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
  


		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.  

From jhj at jhj.com  Tue Nov 15 16:28:49 2005
From: jhj at jhj.com (Jerry J)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:28:49 -0800
Subject: Table Field Object - how to use?
In-Reply-To: <20051115081132.AE88282507A@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051115081132.AE88282507A@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <2580de86b5cd25a94d09d85e9e6c530c@jhj.com>

> From: Alex Tweedly <alex at tweedly.net>
> Subject: Re: Table Field Object - how to use?
>
> It might be the tutorial (number 16) by Eric Chatonet of So Smart
> Software. Can be found at
>
> http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/?r=revolution_didacticiels&l=en

Thanks, Alex, that does it nicely. And thanks Eric, I should have 
picked up your tutorial picker a long time ago. Great stuff!

Jerry Jensen



From katir at hindu.org  Tue Nov 15 04:56:07 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 23:56:07 -1000
Subject: Cmd-A doesn't work from Keyboard in Standalone
Message-ID: <65BD39E1-983A-4953-BE9E-5F557CCFF8DC@hindu.org>

I have a pulldown menu button on  group shared across all cards in a  
stack... the standard "Edit".

Select All/A

the cmd symbol for the Mac appears as expected to the right of the  
menu item in the pull down.

case "Select All"
if the selected fld is not empty then select text of the selected field.
break

If I run this stack from m stand alone player, the item to select all  
text in a field only works if the user mouses up to the button and  
pulls it down and chooses that item. So the script it OK... But, if  
the user puts his cursor into a fld and clicks cmd-A from the  
keyboard it doesn't work??

It works in the IDE of course... I hacked the RevMenu stack and check  
the edit button in the IDE... mine is virtually the same...

In fact I have a number of apps where my keyboard shortcuts are not  
driving the menus as expected... this makes them appear "lame" from  
our users point of view... I must be doing something wrong...

Sivakatirswami




From HyperChris at aol.com  Tue Nov 15 16:52:27 2005
From: HyperChris at aol.com (HyperChris at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 16:52:27 EST
Subject: deleteDups()
Message-ID: <252.11bd5a8.30abb29b@aol.com>

I used to use an Xcmd set called HyperExternals Pro and one of its useful 
XFCN's was deleteDups(). The main thing it did was to quickly eliminate the 
duplicate lines in a sorted list. Here is my transcript replacement ...
 function deleteDups pList
  repeat with x=number of lines in pList down to 2
     if line x of pList is line (x-1) of pList then delete line x of pList
   end repeat
  return pList
 end deleteDups
 ... but I thought it might be fun to see what others have to offer up that 
would be more elegant and clever! Anyone?


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Nov 15 17:01:51 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 23:01:51 +0100
Subject: deleteDups()
In-Reply-To: <252.11bd5a8.30abb29b@aol.com>
References: <252.11bd5a8.30abb29b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1BC47BEF-4BC5-45E0-8A9B-44BD7960FB84@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Chris,

Repeat for each is always much more faster than repeat with x:
So I would prefer:

function deleteDups pList
   local tLine,tStrippedList
   -----
   repeat for each line tLine in pList
      if tLine is not among the lines of tStrippedList then
       put tLine & cr after tStrippedList
    end repeat
   return word 1 to -1 of tStrippedList
  end deleteDups

Another advantage: the list has not to be sorted :-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 15 nov. 05 ? 22:52, HyperChris at aol.com a ?crit :

> I used to use an Xcmd set called HyperExternals Pro and one of its  
> useful
> XFCN's was deleteDups(). The main thing it did was to quickly  
> eliminate the
> duplicate lines in a sorted list. Here is my transcript  
> replacement ...
>  function deleteDups pList
>   repeat with x=number of lines in pList down to 2
>      if line x of pList is line (x-1) of pList then delete line x  
> of pList
>    end repeat
>   return pList
>  end deleteDups
>  ... but I thought it might be fun to see what others have to offer  
> up that
> would be more elegant and clever! Anyone?

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Nov 15 17:32:23 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 16:32:23 -0600
Subject: deleteDups()
In-Reply-To: <252.11bd5a8.30abb29b@aol.com>
References: <252.11bd5a8.30abb29b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <437A61F7.4040503@hyperactivesw.com>

HyperChris at aol.com wrote:
> I used to use an Xcmd set called HyperExternals Pro and one of its useful 
> XFCN's was deleteDups(). The main thing it did was to quickly eliminate the 
> duplicate lines in a sorted list. Here is my transcript replacement ...
>  function deleteDups pList
>   repeat with x=number of lines in pList down to 2
>      if line x of pList is line (x-1) of pList then delete line x of pList
>    end repeat
>   return pList
>  end deleteDups
>  ... but I thought it might be fun to see what others have to offer up that 
> would be more elegant and clever! Anyone?

If you don't care what the final order is, I like this one. It takes 
advantage of the fact that the "split" command doesn't allow duplicates 
and is very fast:

function deleteDups pList
   split pList by cr and numToChar(3)
   return keys(pList)
end deleteDups

I use numToChar(3) -- which is the "enter" key -- becaue it is 
untypeable and therefore unlikely to be in the data. You could use any 
character you know isn't in the list.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk  Tue Nov 15 18:17:28 2005
From: Kresten.Bjerg at psy.ku.dk (Kresten Bjerg)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 00:17:28 +0100
Subject: How can I print all parts of oversize cards..Happy ending.
Message-ID: <s37a7ab3.016@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>


Hey, to Jacqueline, and the other helpers
 
Jacquelines last posting solved the problem, -
 
the imagedata line didnt work, instead:
 
(I copy below essentials of the handler, in case somebody should get involved in the same mysteries)
 
 Jacqueline,I am not sure, how I caused the misunderstanding,but the 9 full screen windows 
are certainly not all visible at the same time. Only 1 at a time ! We are looking forward to 
publishing a beta-version within a few weeks, and hope to find a bit of interest among some
 members from this list:
It will be a freeware cross platform standalone with open sourcecodes,for users to organize
 a personal electronic diary,including the use of glyphs as ascii-characters in 12 freeware fonts.
 Allready interested can mail me a direct note with their e-mail adress, - they will then hear from me
, when the beta-version is ready.
 kresten.bjerg at psy.ku.dk                                   www.psy.ku.dk/bjerg 

The handler handles 6 fullscreen windows on the card in one way, 3 fullscreen windows in another way, 
which necessitated an extra(non-visible) substack /bufferstack

on printwindow
  global phenowindow,printbuffer,screenbuff
  set the cursor to watch
  set the printmargins to 20,20,5,5
  set the printScale to .70
  set the printRotated to true
  if phenowindow is mainwindow then
    Print this Card from 1,20 to 1020,763
  end if
  if phenowindow is oikoswindow then
    Print this card from 730,0 to 2046,732
  end if
 etc, etc etc etc  for 4 more windows

but

  if phenowindow is gardenwindow then
    export snapshot from rect "0,0,1020,770" to screenbuff as JPEG
    go stack "Printbuffer"
    put screenbuff into image "Bufferimage"
    print stack "Printbuffer"
    go stack "Phenomenalog"
  end if
  if phenowindow is homewindow then
   export snapshot from rect "0,0,1020,770" to screenbuff as JPEG
    go stack "Printbuffer"
    put screenbuff into image "Bufferimage"
    print stack "Printbuffer"
    go stack "Phenomenalog"
  end if
 ..... plus one more of that type
end printwindow

(observe that the rects for windows with hrect< 2000 use the card rects, while the last, with hrect>2000 ,using snapshot, are using the screenrects.




From david at openpartnership.net  Tue Nov 15 18:22:27 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 00:22:27 +0100
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <53D67B6C-19F8-4099-B5AF-5C949C100007@danshafer.com>
References: <BF9E404C.2FBE8%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<53D67B6C-19F8-4099-B5AF-5C949C100007@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <F094B226-8FD6-4D9F-AE2D-9C2D77AB8CC5@openpartnership.net>

On 14 Nov 2005, at 20:53, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Agreed. That and security are the issues and they have been more  
> than adequately addressed for a long time now. The "omigod my data  
> isn't on my own server" alarm is a red herring. Any company that  
> sees the advantage in distributed browser-based apps can easily  
> deal with the "scary" parts of the solution.

Go on then Dan - send me your last years accounts. I promise my  
company won't look at it, data mine it, or forward any information  
gained to any third party. To really reassure you, why not fill in a  
signed web form which binds me to my little promise? You can trust me  
honest :)

Seriously though Dan - I agree with you. Every time you make a normal  
credit card transaction over the phone you are exposing yourself to  
such risks if not more so - getting users to agree to that is another  
matter.


From david at openpartnership.net  Tue Nov 15 18:24:05 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 00:24:05 +0100
Subject: MC/RR and QT movies on Linux
In-Reply-To: <web-339149756@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339149756@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <2D71DE83-3666-4892-A964-86B673A1802C@openpartnership.net>

Better still would be cross platform VLC?

On 15 Nov 2005, at 08:14, Mathewson wrote:

> I am just about to see what can be done with
> "OpenQuicktime" ( http://www.openquicktime.org/ ) as it M I
> G H T be the answer to bl**dy xanim.
>
> Those of you who haven't blotted your copybook with the
> folks at RunRev (My God, they take a long time forgiving
> things) could mention OpenQuicktime in their shell-like
> ears.
>
> I'll keep you posted!
>
> Love, Richmond Mathewson
>
> __________________________________________________
> See Mathewson's software at:
>
> http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
> _______________________________________
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> The Think Different Store
> http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
> For All Your Mac Gear
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From revdan at danshafer.com  Tue Nov 15 18:44:52 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 15:44:52 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <F094B226-8FD6-4D9F-AE2D-9C2D77AB8CC5@openpartnership.net>
References: <BF9E404C.2FBE8%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<53D67B6C-19F8-4099-B5AF-5C949C100007@danshafer.com>
	<F094B226-8FD6-4D9F-AE2D-9C2D77AB8CC5@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <48B66C75-CA17-4228-8F05-3668653D21C1@danshafer.com>

David.....

If we had a trusted business relationship established and you needed  
my accounts, I would feel every bit as secure making them available  
over the Net as I do sending them in the mail.

Since we don't....

:-)

Dan

On Nov 15, 2005, at 3:22 PM, David Bovill wrote:

> On 14 Nov 2005, at 20:53, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>> Agreed. That and security are the issues and they have been more  
>> than adequately addressed for a long time now. The "omigod my data  
>> isn't on my own server" alarm is a red herring. Any company that  
>> sees the advantage in distributed browser-based apps can easily  
>> deal with the "scary" parts of the solution.
>
> Go on then Dan - send me your last years accounts. I promise my  
> company won't look at it, data mine it, or forward any information  
> gained to any third party. To really reassure you, why not fill in  
> a signed web form which binds me to my little promise? You can  
> trust me honest :)
>
> Seriously though Dan - I agree with you. Every time you make a  
> normal credit card transaction over the phone you are exposing  
> yourself to such risks if not more so - getting users to agree to  
> that is another matter.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Tue Nov 15 19:37:30 2005
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (ron barber)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 09:37:30 +0900
Subject: Unicode in Window Title?
In-Reply-To: <2A0F8C96-AA6C-46C3-91D9-3A9DFB8C9116@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <65EC5440-A07F-4757-AFE1-7FB1A259EC16@mangomultimedia.com>
	<2A0F8C96-AA6C-46C3-91D9-3A9DFB8C9116@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <01f28b82f63b549be5cba64d73ca3511@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Hi Trevor,

Sigh. One day we will be able to do this and I would love to have 
someone come in and tell me that today is the day but until then we 
continue to wait for more complete unicode support.

I can't remember if this is on the bugzilla list or not but please add 
it if it isn't.

Thanks
Ron

On Nov 16, 2005, at 4:59 AM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> On Nov 15, 2005, at 11:01 AM, Trevor DeVore wrote:
>
>> Has anyone been able to display Unicode in a window title on OS X?  
>> When I set the title property for a stack (which has textFont set to 
>> ",Unicode") to a Unicode string I just get garbage characters.  I'm 
>> trying to get Russian to display properly.
>
> Same question as above, but for tooltips.  I can't get unicode text to 
> display properly in tooltips either.
>
>
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> Blue Mango Multimedia
> trevor at mangomultimedia.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Tue Nov 15 19:55:54 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 19:55:54 -0500
Subject: scope puzzle with menus
Message-ID: <9733036B-4E93-4EBA-BE41-09F8E3B52AEF@conncoll.edu>

I've got that incremental-search-in-a-sorted-field routine working  
the way I want it (thanks to all the help from this list.) So I  
decided to move it to my mainstack's script to avoid having a dozen  
copies in the scripts for the scrollable fields themselves. In the  
mainstack script there's an incrementalSearch handler with parameters  
'theKey' for the keystroke, 'theField' for the name of the field from  
which it's being called and whose text is being searched (scrolled,  
selected). Each field that wants to use the facility includes a  
little keyUp handler to call it. No problem.

Also in the mainstack script are the script-local variables for the  
seconds of the last keystroke and the accumulating string of  
keystrokes. Perfect use for script-locals (since they're  
nonvolatile); it works fine.

But *other* keystrokes get into the script-local variable too.  
Specifically, if cmd-U has called up the substack whose field is to  
be searched, then the field starts off scrolled to 'U'; a field  
called up by cmd-S is scrolled to 'S'. These are keystrokes bound to  
menu items.

So two questions. (1) Why are they getting into the script-local  
variable?? It's supposed to be accessible only from within the  
script. The menus (built with MenuBuilder) are owned by card 1 of the  
mainstack, but they are not referenced in any way in the mainstack  
script. Is something behind the scenes violating the script-local  
definition? (2) What's the best way around it? I could build a kludge  
filter (maybe, though it would be easier if I knew exactly how those  
keystrokes got in there), but there must be a better way.

Any advice & enlightenment much appreciated as always.

Charles Hartman



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Nov 15 20:03:34 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:03:34 -0800
Subject: Unicode in Window Title?
In-Reply-To: <01f28b82f63b549be5cba64d73ca3511@yhb.att.ne.jp>
References: <65EC5440-A07F-4757-AFE1-7FB1A259EC16@mangomultimedia.com>
	<2A0F8C96-AA6C-46C3-91D9-3A9DFB8C9116@mangomultimedia.com>
	<01f28b82f63b549be5cba64d73ca3511@yhb.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <89E49978-FEF3-45D2-A5D6-FA7798EC13ED@mangomultimedia.com>

On Nov 15, 2005, at 4:37 PM, ron barber wrote:

> Hi Trevor,
>
> Sigh. One day we will be able to do this and I would love to have  
> someone come in and tell me that today is the day but until then we  
> continue to wait for more complete unicode support.
>
> I can't remember if this is on the bugzilla list or not but please  
> add it if it isn't.

I didn't see any entries for title or tooltip.  I've logged two bugs:
http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3226
http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3227

This creates a dilemma for me.  I need to localize an application in  
Russian and eventually Chinese and Japanese.  Tooltips I could work  
around but not having window titles displayed in the localized  
language is a problem for this app.

So now I am looking for advice from anyone working with Revolution  
and Russian.  I have never had to deal with anything but default  
fonts for English, French, German, etc. so I am not exactly sure how  
to proceed.  If I can't use Unicode, do I just need to set the stack  
textFont to a standard font that will be installed on Russian systems  
and populate the fields with text that has the Cyrillic ISO 8859-5 or  
Russian KOI8-R encoding?

Anybody have any pointers?

Thanks,

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Tue Nov 15 21:20:11 2005
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (ron barber)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:20:11 +0900
Subject: Unicode in Window Title?
In-Reply-To: <89E49978-FEF3-45D2-A5D6-FA7798EC13ED@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <65EC5440-A07F-4757-AFE1-7FB1A259EC16@mangomultimedia.com>
	<2A0F8C96-AA6C-46C3-91D9-3A9DFB8C9116@mangomultimedia.com>
	<01f28b82f63b549be5cba64d73ca3511@yhb.att.ne.jp>
	<89E49978-FEF3-45D2-A5D6-FA7798EC13ED@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <f4c477e17484b2acd0a51942200dfa39@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Hi again,

One workaround is to set the language of the OS in the International 
section of the system preferences. For Russian, you can drag it to the 
top of the list. Note this also changes the special menu items - help, 
about, quit and maybe another that I can't remember. Another way to do 
this is to create a folder in the Resources folder within the Contents 
folder within the package titled "Russian.lproj". Then in your 
application,

where RussianWord is a word typed in Rev in Russian:

put unidecode("RussianWord","Russian") into tword
set the name of wd "untitled 1" to tword

In my Japanese/Chinese/Korean/English app, I have the user choose a 
default language and work with it this way. Try it and let me know if 
it works for Russian as well.

HTH,
Ron


On Nov 16, 2005, at 10:03 AM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

> On Nov 15, 2005, at 4:37 PM, ron barber wrote:
>
>> Hi Trevor,
>>
>> Sigh. One day we will be able to do this and I would love to have 
>> someone come in and tell me that today is the day but until then we 
>> continue to wait for more complete unicode support.
>>
>> I can't remember if this is on the bugzilla list or not but please 
>> add it if it isn't.
>
> I didn't see any entries for title or tooltip.  I've logged two bugs:
> http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3226
> http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3227
>
> This creates a dilemma for me.  I need to localize an application in 
> Russian and eventually Chinese and Japanese.  Tooltips I could work 
> around but not having window titles displayed in the localized 
> language is a problem for this app.
>
> So now I am looking for advice from anyone working with Revolution and 
> Russian.  I have never had to deal with anything but default fonts for 
> English, French, German, etc. so I am not exactly sure how to proceed. 
>  If I can't use Unicode, do I just need to set the stack textFont to a 
> standard font that will be installed on Russian systems and populate 
> the fields with text that has the Cyrillic ISO 8859-5 or Russian 
> KOI8-R encoding?
>
> Anybody have any pointers?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> Blue Mango Multimedia
> trevor at mangomultimedia.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Nov 15 22:37:28 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 19:37:28 -0800
Subject: [offlist] Re: Unicode in Window Title?
In-Reply-To: <f4c477e17484b2acd0a51942200dfa39@yhb.att.ne.jp>
References: <65EC5440-A07F-4757-AFE1-7FB1A259EC16@mangomultimedia.com>
	<2A0F8C96-AA6C-46C3-91D9-3A9DFB8C9116@mangomultimedia.com>
	<01f28b82f63b549be5cba64d73ca3511@yhb.att.ne.jp>
	<89E49978-FEF3-45D2-A5D6-FA7798EC13ED@mangomultimedia.com>
	<f4c477e17484b2acd0a51942200dfa39@yhb.att.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <AE7BB930-7FF6-402A-A85C-49BA604B87B8@mangomultimedia.com>

On Nov 15, 2005, at 6:20 PM, ron barber wrote:

> Hi again,
>
> One workaround is to set the language of the OS in the  
> International section of the system preferences. For Russian, you  
> can drag it to the top of the list. Note this also changes the  
> special menu items - help, about, quit and maybe another that I  
> can't remember. Another way to do this is to create a folder in the  
> Resources folder within the Contents folder within the package  
> titled "Russian.lproj". Then in your application,
>
> where RussianWord is a word typed in Rev in Russian:
>
> put unidecode("RussianWord","Russian") into tword
> set the name of wd "untitled 1" to tword

That works!  Thanks.  I'm already loading the language based on the  
system preferences, I just had to run the uniDecode stuff on it.

> In my Japanese/Chinese/Korean/English app, I have the user choose a  
> default language and work with it this way. Try it and let me know  
> if it works for Russian as well.

Are you handling all of your text in Unicode in your app?  If so, did  
you just write your own handlers for dealing with chunk expressions  
(word, item, char, etc.)?

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Nov 15 22:40:47 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 21:40:47 -0600
Subject: scope puzzle with menus
In-Reply-To: <9733036B-4E93-4EBA-BE41-09F8E3B52AEF@conncoll.edu>
References: <9733036B-4E93-4EBA-BE41-09F8E3B52AEF@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <437AAA3F.5050803@hyperactivesw.com>

Charles Hartman wrote:
> I've got that incremental-search-in-a-sorted-field routine working  the 
> way I want it (thanks to all the help from this list.) So I  decided to 
> move it to my mainstack's script to avoid having a dozen  copies in the 
> scripts for the scrollable fields themselves. In the  mainstack script 
> there's an incrementalSearch handler with parameters  'theKey' for the 
> keystroke, 'theField' for the name of the field from  which it's being 
> called and whose text is being searched (scrolled,  selected). Each 
> field that wants to use the facility includes a  little keyUp handler to 
> call it. No problem.

Try changing your handler to "keydown" rather than "keyup".

> 
> Also in the mainstack script are the script-local variables for the  
> seconds of the last keystroke and the accumulating string of  
> keystrokes. Perfect use for script-locals (since they're  nonvolatile); 
> it works fine.
> 
> But *other* keystrokes get into the script-local variable too.  
> Specifically, if cmd-U has called up the substack whose field is to  be 
> searched, then the field starts off scrolled to 'U'; a field  called up 
> by cmd-S is scrolled to 'S'. These are keystrokes bound to  menu items.
> 
> So two questions. (1) Why are they getting into the script-local  
> variable?? It's supposed to be accessible only from within the  script. 
> The menus (built with MenuBuilder) are owned by card 1 of the  
> mainstack, but they are not referenced in any way in the mainstack  
> script. Is something behind the scenes violating the script-local  
> definition? (2) What's the best way around it? I could build a kludge  
> filter (maybe, though it would be easier if I knew exactly how those  
> keystrokes got in there), but there must be a better way.
> 
> Any advice & enlightenment much appreciated as always.

You can track what is going on by watching the Message Watcher. When the 
command key is down, you get all the keyboard messages except "keydown". 
So a keydown handler will trap only keys that are depressed alone.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Nov 15 22:42:54 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 21:42:54 -0600
Subject: How can I print all parts of oversize cards..Happy ending.
In-Reply-To: <s37a7ab3.016@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>
References: <s37a7ab3.016@PSYLIN2.LIN.KU.DK>
Message-ID: <437AAABE.3080203@hyperactivesw.com>

Kresten Bjerg wrote:
> Hey, to Jacqueline, and the other helpers
>  
> Jacquelines last posting solved the problem, -

Glad it worked, in spite of my confusion.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Tue Nov 15 22:45:05 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 22:45:05 -0500
Subject: scope puzzle with menus
In-Reply-To: <437AAA3F.5050803@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <9733036B-4E93-4EBA-BE41-09F8E3B52AEF@conncoll.edu>
	<437AAA3F.5050803@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <0887F0EA-4A78-46A4-A143-127D06E4DEA8@conncoll.edu>

Jacque,

I would not have thought of that in 127 days. Thank you!

(I'm still a little puzzled. I still don't see why my "script local"  
variable is getting tampered with by something outside the script at  
all. I fear I'm missing a General Concept here.)

Charles Hartman

On Nov 15, 2005, at 10:40 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Charles Hartman wrote:
>> I've got that incremental-search-in-a-sorted-field routine  
>> working  the way I want it (thanks to all the help from this  
>> list.) So I  decided to move it to my mainstack's script to avoid  
>> having a dozen  copies in the scripts for the scrollable fields  
>> themselves. In the  mainstack script there's an incrementalSearch  
>> handler with parameters  'theKey' for the keystroke, 'theField'  
>> for the name of the field from  which it's being called and whose  
>> text is being searched (scrolled,  selected). Each field that  
>> wants to use the facility includes a  little keyUp handler to call  
>> it. No problem.
>
> Try changing your handler to "keydown" rather than "keyup".
>
>> Also in the mainstack script are the script-local variables for  
>> the  seconds of the last keystroke and the accumulating string of   
>> keystrokes. Perfect use for script-locals (since they're   
>> nonvolatile); it works fine.
>> But *other* keystrokes get into the script-local variable too.   
>> Specifically, if cmd-U has called up the substack whose field is  
>> to  be searched, then the field starts off scrolled to 'U'; a  
>> field  called up by cmd-S is scrolled to 'S'. These are keystrokes  
>> bound to  menu items.
>> So two questions. (1) Why are they getting into the script-local   
>> variable?? It's supposed to be accessible only from within the   
>> script. The menus (built with MenuBuilder) are owned by card 1 of  
>> the  mainstack, but they are not referenced in any way in the  
>> mainstack  script. Is something behind the scenes violating the  
>> script-local  definition? (2) What's the best way around it? I  
>> could build a kludge  filter (maybe, though it would be easier if  
>> I knew exactly how those  keystrokes got in there), but there must  
>> be a better way.
>> Any advice & enlightenment much appreciated as always.
>
> You can track what is going on by watching the Message Watcher.  
> When the command key is down, you get all the keyboard messages  
> except "keydown". So a keydown handler will trap only keys that are  
> depressed alone.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 15 23:04:12 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:04:12 -0800
Subject: Problem with loop of array elements
Message-ID: <BF9FEFBC.30859%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

On 11/15/05 6:58 AM, Thomas Fischer <fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
wrote:
 Original email was about looping arrays and debugging.
Along a different line, I am offering a more universal way of getting URL
links.

Thomas, another technique you might try is locating and using the href =
?www.url.com? string.
This may not be suitable for your purpose, however.
It also does not explain the debugger anomaly you saw.

Unless you have a web page that contains thousands of urls, this should be
fast enough for you.

This assumes there could be various forms of HTML code, where the programmer
uses returns to make it look good to the eye, but the browser simply ignores
them.  Thus the following (3) URL variations are identical to the browser
-------------
<a href=?www.bigbusiness.com/product334.html? name = ?Lamp334?>Desk Lamp,
black</a>

<a href=?www.bigbusiness.com/
product334
.html? name = ?Lamp334?>Desk Lamp, black</a>

<a name=?Lamp334? href     =   ?www.bigbusiness.com/
product334.html? >Desk Lamp, black</a>
------------------
--putting all of the above lines in the same container will resolve to 3
lines of 
www.bigbusiness.com/product334.html
www.bigbusiness.com/product334.html
www.bigbusiness.com/product334.html

----------------- start copy here
on mousedoubleup
  put cd fld "SaveFile" into theSearchFileName
  put url ("file:/" & theSearchFileName) into theSearchResult
  
  replace numtochar(13) with empty in theSearchResult --we definitely don't
WANT returns
  replace return with empty in theSearchResult --we definitely don't WANT
returns
  replace numtochar(210) with quote in theSearchResult ?curly quote
  replace numtochar(211) with quote in theSearchResult ?curly quote
  
  put numtochar(160) into sep  --
  --Thomas, you used "<p class=g>" but I am not sure of the reason
  
  --using the power of regular expressions [regex]...
  --we are looking for either (href=") or (href = ")  or (href =") or
(href=")
  --   case INsensitive
  put "(?i)href[^\" &quote& "]+." into strToReplace -- -> (?Ui)href[^\"]+.
  put replaceText(theSearchResult,strToReplace,(return&"MMMM"&sep)) into
crudeLines
  
  --now only the lines we want all begin with MMMM
  filter crudeLines with ("MMMM"&sep&"*")
  --we now have only those lines we want
  
  replace quote with sep in crudeLines --sets the trailing quote to sep
  set the itemDel to sep
  --keep only item 2 of each line
  repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in crudeLines
    put item 2 of line x of crudeLines into line x of foundURLs
  end repeat
  breakpoint
  put "file:" & theSearchFileName & "-Links" into theSearchFileName
  put foundURLs into URL theSearchFileName
end mousedoubleup

----------------- end copy

Jim Ault
Las Vegas



From rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp  Tue Nov 15 23:22:13 2005
From: rbarber at yhb.att.ne.jp (ron barber)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 13:22:13 +0900
Subject: [offlist] Re: Unicode in Window Title?
In-Reply-To: <AE7BB930-7FF6-402A-A85C-49BA604B87B8@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <65EC5440-A07F-4757-AFE1-7FB1A259EC16@mangomultimedia.com>
	<2A0F8C96-AA6C-46C3-91D9-3A9DFB8C9116@mangomultimedia.com>
	<01f28b82f63b549be5cba64d73ca3511@yhb.att.ne.jp>
	<89E49978-FEF3-45D2-A5D6-FA7798EC13ED@mangomultimedia.com>
	<f4c477e17484b2acd0a51942200dfa39@yhb.att.ne.jp>
	<AE7BB930-7FF6-402A-A85C-49BA604B87B8@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <ecee00ff853478f8a96e715ae78d7d6a@yhb.att.ne.jp>

Glad it worked for you, but I think we still need to be able to use 
unicode in a more direct, natural way.

On Nov 16, 2005, at 12:37 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote:
>
>> In my Japanese/Chinese/Korean/English app, I have the user choose a 
>> default language and work with it this way. Try it and let me know if 
>> it works for Russian as well.
>
> Are you handling all of your text in Unicode in your app?  If so, did 
> you just write your own handlers for dealing with chunk expressions 
> (word, item, char, etc.)?

The short answer is that I'm still trying to find a satisfactory 
solution.
Japanese and Chinese do not have word delimiters - 
allthewordsruntogetherlikethis - so that particular problem is not a 
unicode one. However, I have had to use a custom function that counts 
lines because some of the Kanji chars actually use a return as part of 
their encoding which leads to incorrect line counts.

As far as words go, the best I have done is unidecode the whole text 
and then do chunk expressions and then reconvert and then if necessary 
hilite the word by accounting for the different bytes per char.

Using a combination of singlebyte and unicode has some advantages and 
some disadvantages. Using a comma for an itemdel takes away the 
unidecode step but makes counting chars unreliable.

HTH,
Ron

please share whatever solutions you come up with. I keep hoping that 
someone with more experience will jump in and correct my poor 
solutions.



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Wed Nov 16 00:23:02 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 21:23:02 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>


On Nov 13, 2005, at 11:12 PM, Graham Samuel wrote:

> I want to know, are we looking at a 'paradigm shift' or an addition  
> to the spectrum of possible app technologies or what?

AJAX generalizes to this: an engine stored on the user's computer  
accessing program code and data from a server on the internet. The  
engine is (supposed to be) general enough to support a broad spectrum  
of applications.

Now note the similarity -- Revolution can be used as: an engine  
stored on the user's computer accessing program code and data from a  
server on the internet.

The advantageous differences are:

AJAX -- there isn't just one engine: multiple web browsers supported,  
some open source.
AJAX -- the engines are on just about every modern computer.

Revolution -- a reasonably complete set of UI widgets.
Revolution -- a more application-like interface: menus, command-keys,  
etc.


Sort of a wash, depending on whether you need this, and whether you  
trust the application creator:
Revolution -- data and code can be more easily stored on the user's  
computer, during and between sessions.
AJAX -- applications can be used more freely without worrying about  
the security of information on your hard drive.

Anyone who can think of other _general_ differences between web  
applications and Revolution applications, feel free to add them. But  
apart from what I've listed above, I don't see much difference,  
really. Not that what I listed isn't significant, just that I think  
web apps are simply browsers moving toward Rev's functionality. It'll  
be interesting as they work toward persistent data. It'll be _really_  
interesting when someone ships a browser that supports widgets, or  
lets you override its menus.

What would be _most_ interesting would be if something like Ken's  
StackRunner managed to be classified as a web browser, got publicity  
like Firefox (or even Flock: www.flock.com), and achieved 10%  
penetration in the world at large. Then we could pressure Google to  
port gmail. It would only take, what, about a week? ;-)

gc


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Nov 16 01:39:04 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 00:39:04 -0600
Subject: scope puzzle with menus
In-Reply-To: <0887F0EA-4A78-46A4-A143-127D06E4DEA8@conncoll.edu>
References: <9733036B-4E93-4EBA-BE41-09F8E3B52AEF@conncoll.edu>
	<437AAA3F.5050803@hyperactivesw.com>
	<0887F0EA-4A78-46A4-A143-127D06E4DEA8@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <437AD408.3090209@hyperactivesw.com>

Charles Hartman wrote:
> Jacque,
> 
> I would not have thought of that in 127 days. Thank you!
> 
> (I'm still a little puzzled. I still don't see why my "script local"  
> variable is getting tampered with by something outside the script at  
> all. I fear I'm missing a General Concept here.)

Well, if you open the message watcher and then press and release a key 
you'll see something like this:

rawKeyDown
keyDown
rawKeyUp
keyUp

Each of those is a different system message and each carries as a 
parameter the key you have pressed and/or released. If you hold down the 
Command key while doing the same thing, you only get these messages:

rawKeyDown
rawKeyUp
keyUp

There is no "keydown" message sent when the Command key is down. You can 
take advantage of that to trap only plain keypresses.

Let's say you've pressed Cmd-U. The reason the key is included in your 
script local when using a "keyUp" handler is because Rev is sending both 
rawKeyUp-U and keyUp-U. The menus act on the rawKeyDown/Up messages, but 
that's only half the set; your script is trapping the keyUp and storing 
the "U".

It is natural to think of a keypress as a single "up" or "down" event, 
but it's really two sets.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From wdesmet at wanadoo.nl  Wed Nov 16 04:26:54 2005
From: wdesmet at wanadoo.nl (William de Smet)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 10:26:54 +0100
Subject: How to lock a field after a drag?
In-Reply-To: <4B196F09-9E25-4DE5-814F-927FFC8EB4F0@conncoll.edu>
References: <A0F6C525-235D-4AFD-BA90-978611129C06@wanadoo.nl>
	<4B196F09-9E25-4DE5-814F-927FFC8EB4F0@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <0668DA95-4B2F-4942-8A51-EDC1BF0C750F@wanadoo.nl>

(Re off-list) Yes, as in De Smet but we're not related :-)

Still need help with my problem, anyone?

William de Smet

Op 15-nov-2005, om 22:21 heeft Charles Hartman het volgende geschreven:

> (off-list) Just curious -- de Smet, as in the De Smet C compiler  
> for DOS machines, a couple of decades back?
>
> Charles Hartman
>
>
>
> On Nov 15, 2005, at 3:16 PM, William de Smet wrote:
>
>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> As a newbie I'm trying to do the following with a field:
>> drag field "1"  onto  field "2" and then count 1 up in a field   
>> called "score"  (field "1" must then be locked  until field "  
>> score" is five and next  field "1"  must be  draggable again.
>>
>> So far I use the following code:
>> ---------------------------------------------
>> on mouseDown
>>   grab me
>>   set cursor to 28
>>   lock cursor
>>   end mouseDown
>>
>> on mouseup
>>   unlock cursor
>>   set cursor to arrow
>> if intersect(me,field "2") then
>>  move me to the loc of field "2"
>>  add 1 to field  "score"
>> end if
>> end mouseup
>> ---------------------------------------------
>>
>> I thought I use 'set mousedown on me to false'  after " add 1 to  
>> field "score" but that doesn't work because I can still drag the  
>> field
>> I need help, anyone?
>>
>>
>> Thanks, William de Smet
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>
>



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov 16 04:37:22 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 10:37:22 +0100
Subject: How to lock a field after a drag?
In-Reply-To: <A0F6C525-235D-4AFD-BA90-978611129C06@wanadoo.nl>
References: <A0F6C525-235D-4AFD-BA90-978611129C06@wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <1411ADB2-56FF-4FCC-B4CF-C6A748EB63AA@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi William,

Welcome to this list :-)
You might be interested first in the basics about drag and drop with  
Revolution.
Then you could have a look at some tutorials: "How to manage drag and  
drop", "Images drag and drop", etc.
These tutorials  and many others are available from "Tutorials  
Picker", a plugin you will find by going to http:// 
www.sosmartsoftware.com/?r=revolution_didacticiels&l=en

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 15 nov. 05 ? 21:16, William de Smet a ?crit :

> Hi there,
>
> As a newbie I'm trying to do the following with a field:
> drag field "1"  onto  field "2" and then count 1 up in a field   
> called "score"  (field "1" must then be locked  until field "  
> score" is five and next  field "1"  must be  draggable again.
>
> So far I use the following code:
> ---------------------------------------------
> on mouseDown
>   grab me
>   set cursor to 28
>   lock cursor
>   end mouseDown
>
> on mouseup
>   unlock cursor
>   set cursor to arrow
> if intersect(me,field "2") then
>  move me to the loc of field "2"
>  add 1 to field  "score"
> end if
> end mouseup
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> I thought I use 'set mousedown on me to false'  after " add 1 to  
> field "score" but that doesn't work because I can still drag the field
> I need help, anyone?

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Wed Nov 16 05:52:47 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:52:47 +0100
Subject: AW: Problem with loop of array elements
In-Reply-To: <BF9FEFBC.30859%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCIEGIDMAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hi Jim,

thank you for the hints.

> Thomas, another technique you might try is locating and using the href =
> ?www.url.com? string.
> This may not be suitable for your purpose, however.
> It also does not explain the debugger anomaly you saw.
Yes, I am still waiting for an explanation of that one.

>...
> This assumes there could be various forms of HTML code, where the 
> programmer uses returns to make it look good to the eye,
> but the browser simply ignores them.
> Thus the following (3) URL variations are identical to the browser
> ...

If this is an arbitrary web pages, things can become fairly complicated. I don't know what the correct rules are for the interpretation of a line break in the html source.
I know that
<A HREF="www.bigbusiness.com/
product334.html>
as well as
<A
HREF="www.bigbusiness.com/product334.html>
are interpreted as
<A HREF="www.bigbusiness.com/product334.html>
so a line break may be interpreted as empty or as space.

In my case I am looking into Google results, which are pretty standardized, and I don't want _all_ links, but only those to the found pages. And these tend to be the first word in quotes after "<p class=g>".

In the general setting one would have to gather examples of the weird things that may happen, but in any case one would have to get rid of returns and extract the <BASE HREF="..."> information if present.

>From my experience
- no need to worry about numtochar(210) and numtochar(211), these are interpreted as characters, not as quotes
- but there may be links with no quotes at all (will work with Firefox anyway).

For bulk processing (e.g. harvesting entire web sites) I would shy away from regular expressions (unless speed is improved dramatically) and try something like

replace numToChar(10) with empty in theSearchResult
replace numToChar(13) with empty in theSearchResult
replace "href =" with return in theSearchResult
replace "href=" with return in theSearchResult
-- (replace is case insensitive by default)
repeat for each line myLine in theSearchResult
  put word 1 of myLine & return after foundURLs
end repeat

And by the way, I think that something along these lines will be a better solution to my first problem as well, getting rid of any array.

All the best
Thomas



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Wed Nov 16 07:53:41 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 07:53:41 -0500
Subject: scope puzzle with menus
In-Reply-To: <437AD408.3090209@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <9733036B-4E93-4EBA-BE41-09F8E3B52AEF@conncoll.edu>
	<437AAA3F.5050803@hyperactivesw.com>
	<0887F0EA-4A78-46A4-A143-127D06E4DEA8@conncoll.edu>
	<437AD408.3090209@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <A8CD79F3-B935-4270-B633-095B262E998B@conncoll.edu>


On Nov 16, 2005, at 1:39 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Well, if you open the message watcher and then press and release a  
> key you'll see something like this:
>
> rawKeyDown
> keyDown
> rawKeyUp
> keyUp
>
> Each of those is a different system message and each carries as a  
> parameter the key you have pressed and/or released. If you hold  
> down the Command key while doing the same thing, you only get these  
> messages:
>
> rawKeyDown
> rawKeyUp
> keyUp
>
> There is no "keydown" message sent when the Command key is down.  
> You can take advantage of that to trap only plain keypresses.
>
> Let's say you've pressed Cmd-U. The reason the key is included in  
> your script local when using a "keyUp" handler is because Rev is  
> sending both rawKeyUp-U and keyUp-U. The menus act on the  
> rawKeyDown/Up messages, but that's only half the set; your script  
> is trapping the keyUp and storing the "U".
>
> It is natural to think of a keypress as a single "up" or "down"  
> event, but it's really two sets.

No no, thank you, but I understand that (though I didn't know about  
the command key exception, which is a very handy fact). My question  
isn't about the keypresses or the messages, but about the variable.

Scripture saith: "The difference between a script local variable and  
a global variable is that a script local variable can only be used in  
the handlers of one script . . ." I've always extrapolated that to  
mean that the value of a s.l.v. can be changed only by a handler  
within the script that declares the variable. But in this case it's  
being changed by something from outside the handler, isn't it?

A keyUp message whose parameter is cmd-U is generated when I choose a  
menu item whose purpose is to open a substack. So it's generated  
before I have even opened the substack containing the card containing  
the field whose script contains the keyUp handler. That handler then  
calls a handler in the main stack, which reads and writes a variable  
there in the main stack script. So why does that cmd-U (or the 'u'  
part of it) end up in that variable?

Charles Hartman



From HyperChris at aol.com  Wed Nov 16 10:29:56 2005
From: HyperChris at aol.com (HyperChris at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 10:29:56 EST
Subject: deleteDups()
Message-ID: <1f9.172c54ff.30acaa74@aol.com>

Chris wrote:
function deleteDups pList
    repeat with x=number of lines in pList down to 2
? ? if line x of pList is line (x-1) of pList then delete line x of pList
    end repeat
? return pList
end deleteDups

then Eric Chatonet wrote ...
function deleteDups pList
? local tLine,tStrippedList
? -----
? repeat for each line tLine in pList
 ? ? if tLine is not among the lines of tStrippedList
 ? ??then put tLine & cr after tStrippedList
 ? end repeat
? return word 1 to -1 of tStrippedList
end deleteDups

then J. Landman Gay wrote ...
function deleteDups pList
?? split pList by cr and numToChar(3)
?? return keys(pList)
end deleteDups


You have enlarged my universe. Using "for each" is several orders of 
magnitude faster than my original script and "split" is faster still.


From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Wed Nov 16 11:24:20 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 08:24:20 -0800
Subject: deleteDups()
In-Reply-To: <1f9.172c54ff.30acaa74@aol.com>
References: <1f9.172c54ff.30acaa74@aol.com>
Message-ID: <D7E7D478-A6C3-4864-8267-CC9FB3EA46C5@inspiredlogic.com>


On Nov 16, 2005, at 7:29 AM, HyperChris at aol.com wrote:

> Chris wrote:
> function deleteDups pList
>     repeat with x=number of lines in pList down to 2
>     if line x of pList is line (x-1) of pList then delete line x of  
> pList
>     end repeat
>   return pList
> end deleteDups
>
> then Eric Chatonet wrote ...
> function deleteDups pList
>   local tLine,tStrippedList
>   -----
>   repeat for each line tLine in pList
>      if tLine is not among the lines of tStrippedList
>      then put tLine & cr after tStrippedList
>    end repeat
>   return word 1 to -1 of tStrippedList
> end deleteDups
>
> then J. Landman Gay wrote ...
> function deleteDups pList
>    split pList by cr and numToChar(3)
>    return keys(pList)
> end deleteDups
>
>
> You have enlarged my universe. Using "for each" is several orders of
> magnitude faster than my original script and "split" is faster still.

Bother -- it happened again. First we had repeat for each turning up  
faster than the filter command. Now I've done a test on the  
following, and it looks like the split command takes not quite twice  
as long as repeat for each (when repeat for each is handled the  
following way).

function deleteDupes pList -- does _not_ retain sort order
   repeat for each line L in pList
     put 1 into temp[L]
   end repeat
   return the keys of temp
end deleteDupes




From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 16 11:52:24 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 08:52:24 -0800
Subject: AW: Problem with loop of array elements
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCIEGIDMAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <BFA0A3C8.308B0%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Yes, you are getting into the world of customizing to purge all the
interface controls.  Sometimes this is called 'screen-scraping'.  There are
several web sites that use Flash or Java to prevent this, especially images
and graphics that have a copyright.

I have several custom solutions that adjust for individual site formats.

The reason for converting the curly quotes is that you were using 'quote' as
an item delimiter.  Some authors will tweak their code in Microsoft Word or
other word processor, copy and paste, therefore mixing in some quote
characters that are not char(34) when you are expecting such.

Hope this helps

Jim Ault
Las Vegas
-----------
On 11/16/05 2:52 AM, "Thomas Fischer" <fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
wrote:

> Hi Jim,
> 
> thank you for the hints.
> 
>> Thomas, another technique you might try is locating and using the href =
>> ?www.url.com? string.
>> This may not be suitable for your purpose, however.
>> It also does not explain the debugger anomaly you saw.
> Yes, I am still waiting for an explanation of that one.
> 
>> ...
>> This assumes there could be various forms of HTML code, where the
>> programmer uses returns to make it look good to the eye,
>> but the browser simply ignores them.
>> Thus the following (3) URL variations are identical to the browser
>> ...
> 
> If this is an arbitrary web pages, things can become fairly complicated. I
> don't know what the correct rules are for the interpretation of a line break
> in the html source.
> I know that
> <A HREF="www.bigbusiness.com/
> product334.html>
> as well as
> <A
> HREF="www.bigbusiness.com/product334.html>
> are interpreted as
> <A HREF="www.bigbusiness.com/product334.html>
> so a line break may be interpreted as empty or as space.
> 
> In my case I am looking into Google results, which are pretty standardized,
> and I don't want _all_ links, but only those to the found pages. And these
> tend to be the first word in quotes after "<p class=g>".
> 
> In the general setting one would have to gather examples of the weird things
> that may happen, but in any case one would have to get rid of returns and
> extract the <BASE HREF="..."> information if present.
> 
>> From my experience
> - no need to worry about numtochar(210) and numtochar(211), these are
> interpreted as characters, not as quotes
> - but there may be links with no quotes at all (will work with Firefox
> anyway).
> 
> For bulk processing (e.g. harvesting entire web sites) I would shy away from
> regular expressions (unless speed is improved dramatically) and try something
> like
> 
> replace numToChar(10) with empty in theSearchResult
> replace numToChar(13) with empty in theSearchResult
> replace "href =" with return in theSearchResult
> replace "href=" with return in theSearchResult
> -- (replace is case insensitive by default)
> repeat for each line myLine in theSearchResult
>   put word 1 of myLine & return after foundURLs
> end repeat
> 
> And by the way, I think that something along these lines will be a better
> solution to my first problem as well, getting rid of any array.
> 
> All the best
> Thomas
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Nov 16 11:58:11 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 10:58:11 -0600
Subject: scope puzzle with menus
In-Reply-To: <A8CD79F3-B935-4270-B633-095B262E998B@conncoll.edu>
References: <9733036B-4E93-4EBA-BE41-09F8E3B52AEF@conncoll.edu>
	<437AAA3F.5050803@hyperactivesw.com>
	<0887F0EA-4A78-46A4-A143-127D06E4DEA8@conncoll.edu>
	<437AD408.3090209@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A8CD79F3-B935-4270-B633-095B262E998B@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <437B6523.2020705@hyperactivesw.com>

Charles Hartman wrote:

 > A keyUp message whose parameter is cmd-U is generated when I choose a
 > menu item whose purpose is to open a substack. So it's generated  before
 > I have even opened the substack containing the card containing  the
 > field whose script contains the keyUp handler. That handler then  calls
 > a handler in the main stack, which reads and writes a variable  there in
 > the main stack script. So why does that cmd-U (or the 'u'  part of it)
 > end up in that variable?

I see. I didn't realize the keyUps were in an unopened substack. You'd 
need to do some investigating but it could be that after the command key 
  triggers the menu item and opens the substack, the next keyUp message 
in the queue is then sent to the new top stack, which would be your 
substack.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jeff at siphonophore.com  Wed Nov 16 12:34:34 2005
From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeffrey Reynolds)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 12:34:34 -0500
Subject: Progressive jpegs and mac os9
In-Reply-To: <20051115180004.BBCB7825052@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051115180004.BBCB7825052@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <49fe7e8288ba6169a30f3a2a62e91fa9@siphonophore.com>

FYI, just had a little gotcha on a project.

Turns out a Mac OS9 app built with rev261 build 152 will not display a 
jpeg that is a progressive scan jpeg. the progressive jpegs work fine 
in osx and in classic os9. It appears it might be a quicktime problem. 
Even though the classic and os9 systems are running the same system 
version and quicktime version, quicktime for classic appears to have a 
few more plugins that might be allowing the progressives to be 
displayed in classic but not native os9.

bummer we were all but golden then a final check on os9 found a handful 
of the jpegs had mistakenly been saved as progressives. simple fix, 
just save as regular jpegs, but something to be aware of if you want to 
run on native os9.

cheers,

jeff reynolds



From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Nov 16 12:44:03 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 17:44:03 +0000
Subject: deleteDups()
In-Reply-To: <D7E7D478-A6C3-4864-8267-CC9FB3EA46C5@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <1f9.172c54ff.30acaa74@aol.com>
	<D7E7D478-A6C3-4864-8267-CC9FB3EA46C5@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <437B6FE3.7000802@tweedly.net>

Geoff Canyon wrote:

>
> Bother -- it happened again. First we had repeat for each turning up  
> faster than the filter command. Now I've done a test on the  
> following, and it looks like the split command takes not quite twice  
> as long as repeat for each (when repeat for each is handled the  
> following way).
>
> function deleteDupes pList -- does _not_ retain sort order
>   repeat for each line L in pList
>     put 1 into temp[L]
>   end repeat
>   return the keys of temp
> end deleteDupes
>
>
I wonder if this is because the "split" method used a secondary 
delimiter (numtochar(3)) which doesn't exist in the data. (Nothing to do 
with the choice of secondaryDelimiter - you need to pick one that isn't 
in the data).

So the effort involved in the "split" is

   search for next linedelimiter
   search within that line for the secondaryDelimiter
            (which isn't there, so needs to scan all the way through 
each line)
   create the array element
(i.e. every character is scanned twice).

In your  "repeat for each ... " version, there is only a single search 
(for the lineDelimiter), so you're doing basically half as much 
searching, plus a little bit of loop overhead.

That fits the data (given huge dollops of hindsight :-), though it is 
still surprising and maybe disappointing.


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.2/170 - Release Date: 15/11/2005



From dam-pro.girard at laposte.net  Wed Nov 16 12:54:46 2005
From: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net (Girard Damien)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 18:54:46 +0100
Subject: MC/RR and QT movies on Linux
In-Reply-To: <2D71DE83-3666-4892-A964-86B673A1802C@openpartnership.net>
References: <web-339149756@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<2D71DE83-3666-4892-A964-86B673A1802C@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <1132163686.10143.9.camel@White-Side.Workgroup>

The best media player under linux for me is Mplayer (Mplayer can read
anything, and look like Xanim), but the most used engine is Xine (also a
really good media engine). The xine library is used by a lot of software
(Xine-ui, Amarok, Totem and more...).

But, forget for now the use of Runrev under linux for multimedia use. (I
am using at 98% linux (2% are for games under Windows), and I know
problems of revolution under linux).

If you want a better multimedia support under linux, please vote for
this enhancement request:

http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=1541

----
For write applications who work under linux/Unix, I am starting to learn
C++ and GTK+. I love runrev, and I love Linux/Unix (Sun Solaris), but
runrev doesn't love them.

Damien Girard
Email: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net

Le mercredi 16 novembre 2005 ? 00:24 +0100, David Bovill a ?crit :
> Better still would be cross platform VLC?
> 
> On 15 Nov 2005, at 08:14, Mathewson wrote:
> 
> > I am just about to see what can be done with
> > "OpenQuicktime" ( http://www.openquicktime.org/ ) as it M I
> > G H T be the answer to bl**dy xanim.
> >
> > Those of you who haven't blotted your copybook with the
> > folks at RunRev (My God, they take a long time forgiving
> > things) could mention OpenQuicktime in their shell-like
> > ears.
> >
> > I'll keep you posted!
> >
> > Love, Richmond Mathewson
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > See Mathewson's software at:
> >
> > http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
> > _______________________________________
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > The Think Different Store
> > http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
> > For All Your Mac Gear
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Nov 16 13:07:03 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 10:07:03 -0800
Subject: OT: de Smet C compiler
In-Reply-To: <0668DA95-4B2F-4942-8A51-EDC1BF0C750F@wanadoo.nl>
References: <A0F6C525-235D-4AFD-BA90-978611129C06@wanadoo.nl>
	<4B196F09-9E25-4DE5-814F-927FFC8EB4F0@conncoll.edu>
	<0668DA95-4B2F-4942-8A51-EDC1BF0C750F@wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <10177544543.20051116100703@ahsoftware.net>

William-

Wednesday, November 16, 2005, 1:26:54 AM, you wrote:

> (Re off-list) Yes, as in De Smet but we're not related :-)

> Still need help with my problem, anyone?

> William de Smet

> Op 15-nov-2005, om 22:21 heeft Charles Hartman het volgende geschreven:

>> (off-list) Just curious -- de Smet, as in the De Smet C compiler  
>> for DOS machines, a couple of decades back?
>>
>> Charles Hartman
>>

Now *that* takes me back. I've always had a soft spot in my heart for
the de Smet C compiler.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Nov 16 13:03:04 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 12:03:04 -0600
Subject: deleteDups()
In-Reply-To: <D7E7D478-A6C3-4864-8267-CC9FB3EA46C5@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <1f9.172c54ff.30acaa74@aol.com>
	<D7E7D478-A6C3-4864-8267-CC9FB3EA46C5@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <437B7458.3010400@hyperactivesw.com>

Geoff Canyon wrote:

> Bother -- it happened again. First we had repeat for each turning up  
> faster than the filter command. Now I've done a test on the  following, 
> and it looks like the split command takes not quite twice  as long as 
> repeat for each (when repeat for each is handled the  following way).
> 
> function deleteDupes pList -- does _not_ retain sort order
>   repeat for each line L in pList
>     put 1 into temp[L]
>   end repeat
>   return the keys of temp
> end deleteDupes

Wow. That's good to know. Who woulda thunk? Our of curiosity, how long 
is "twice as long"? Is it minimal, or something we have to think about 
for long lists?

I have a theory: the "filter" command has to load some kind of library 
or something, so it takes longer. That doesn't explain "split" though.


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From darkshadow1 at metrocast.net  Wed Nov 16 13:03:33 2005
From: darkshadow1 at metrocast.net (Preston Shea)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 13:03:33 -0500
Subject: long line in script
Message-ID: <000801c5ead8$0f1fb960$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>

Is there a way to break a long line in a script into shorter bits so that Hscroll is not necessary?

From HyperChris at aol.com  Wed Nov 16 13:03:26 2005
From: HyperChris at aol.com (HyperChris at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 13:03:26 EST
Subject: deleteDups()
Message-ID: <24d.15760f5.30acce6e@aol.com>

>> then J. Landman Gay wrote ...
>> function deleteDups pList
>>     split pList by cr and numToChar(3)
>>     return keys(pList)
>> end deleteDups

Geoff Canyon wrote ...
>it looks like the split command takes not quite twice 
>as long as repeat for each ...
>
>function deleteDupes pList -- does _not_ retain sort order
>    repeat for each line L in pList
>      put 1 into temp[L]
>    end repeat
>    return the keys of temp
>end deleteDupes


Thanks Geoff. Actually, I am getting split as four times faster
than 'for each' (under v2.6.0 & 2.6.1)


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed Nov 16 13:09:59 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:09:59 +0100
Subject: long line in script
In-Reply-To: <000801c5ead8$0f1fb960$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
References: <000801c5ead8$0f1fb960$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
Message-ID: <0624A595-1B68-4450-9480-301359C2D18B@major-k.de>

Hi Preston,

> Is there a way to break a long line in a script into shorter bits  
> so that Hscroll is not necessary?

Sure! Use the backslash cahracter -> \

The engine will \
interpret this one \
as ONE line.


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Nov 16 13:11:46 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 12:11:46 -0600
Subject: long line in script
In-Reply-To: <000801c5ead8$0f1fb960$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
Message-ID: <BFA0D282.2FDC8%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/16/05 12:03 PM, "Preston Shea" <darkshadow1 at metrocast.net> wrote:

> Is there a way to break a long line in a script into shorter bits so that
> Hscroll is not necessary?

Yes; you can use the line continuation character "\" between words, so long
as it is in a logical place (i.e. not in the middle of a quoted string, or a
parenthesized chunk of calculations). Generally it's used when concatenating
things with "&", like:

  put (the long id of field 1) && "="  & \
    (the text of field 1)

Check out "backslash" in the Transcript Dictionary for more info.


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Wed Nov 16 13:29:05 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 13:29:05 -0500
Subject: OT: de Smet C compiler
In-Reply-To: <10177544543.20051116100703@ahsoftware.net>
References: <A0F6C525-235D-4AFD-BA90-978611129C06@wanadoo.nl>
	<4B196F09-9E25-4DE5-814F-927FFC8EB4F0@conncoll.edu>
	<0668DA95-4B2F-4942-8A51-EDC1BF0C750F@wanadoo.nl>
	<10177544543.20051116100703@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <D8F49207-162F-4D71-974D-5683E20487D8@conncoll.edu>


On Nov 16, 2005, at 1:07 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Now *that* takes me back. I've always had a soft spot in my heart for
> the de Smet C compiler.

Absolutely. First affordable, reasonably complete programming system  
on a widely available PC, if I remember correctly (which I probably  
don't). It was good; it worked; you could do anything you could think  
of with it, at the time.

Charles Hartman



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 16 13:40:08 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 10:40:08 -0800
Subject: AW: Problem with loop of array elements
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCIEGIDMAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <BFA0BD08.308D4%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>




On 11/16/05 2:52 AM, "Thomas Fischer" <fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
wrote:

> In my case I am looking into Google results, which are pretty standardized,
> and I don't want _all_ links, but only those to the found pages. And these
> tend to be the first word in quotes after "<p class=g>".

Agreed, in this case, I would collect only those lines, and do any
refining/reformatting after those steps.

The same approach goes for nested tables, especially ones that include
embedded column/row headers.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas




From mark at maseurope.net  Wed Nov 16 13:51:26 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 18:51:26 +0000
Subject: deleteDups()
In-Reply-To: <437B6FE3.7000802@tweedly.net>
References: <1f9.172c54ff.30acaa74@aol.com>
	<D7E7D478-A6C3-4864-8267-CC9FB3EA46C5@inspiredlogic.com>
	<437B6FE3.7000802@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <FF463413-C6FA-4CFC-B3A7-0A5121866765@maseurope.net>

I'm getting the split version as about 10% faster than 'repeat for each'

Rev 2.6.1
Mac PB G4 1.5Ghz

Mark

On 16 Nov 2005, at 17:44, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Geoff Canyon wrote:
>
>>
>> Bother -- it happened again. First we had repeat for each turning  
>> up  faster than the filter command. Now I've done a test on the   
>> following, and it looks like the split command takes not quite  
>> twice  as long as repeat for each (when repeat for each is handled  
>> the  following way).
>>
>> function deleteDupes pList -- does _not_ retain sort order
>>   repeat for each line L in pList
>>     put 1 into temp[L]
>>   end repeat
>>   return the keys of temp
>> end deleteDupes
>>
>>
> I wonder if this is because the "split" method used a secondary  
> delimiter (numtochar(3)) which doesn't exist in the data. (Nothing  
> to do with the choice of secondaryDelimiter - you need to pick one  
> that isn't in the data).
>
> So the effort involved in the "split" is
>
>   search for next linedelimiter
>   search within that line for the secondaryDelimiter
>            (which isn't there, so needs to scan all the way through  
> each line)
>   create the array element
> (i.e. every character is scanned twice).
>
> In your  "repeat for each ... " version, there is only a single  
> search (for the lineDelimiter), so you're doing basically half as  
> much searching, plus a little bit of loop overhead.
>
> That fits the data (given huge dollops of hindsight :-), though it  
> is still surprising and maybe disappointing.
>
>
> -- 
> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.2/170 - Release Date:  
> 15/11/2005
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov 16 14:01:52 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:01:52 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>
	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>

Geoff....

Not a bad job of abstraction and generalization, given the  
limitations of both of those methodologies.

The two advantages you mention for Rev are essentially the same (if  
you view command keys, e.g., as UI widgets that just don't have a  
visible representation) and are the very reason AJAX competes well.  
AJAX embodies the potential for a reasonably complete set of UI  
widgets as well. Some of the libraries on the market have more types  
of UI widgets than even Rev (e.g., something called an accordion that  
companies like Macromedia use a lot and that isn't built into Rev but  
is a standard component in at least three of the AJAX libraries I've  
evaluated so far).

So *if* -- and that's a big "if" -- the *only* advantages of Rev over  
AJAX is the UI componentry, then Rev has essentially little or no  
advantage.

But in point of fact, Rev simplifies a lot of the *server-side* stuff  
that is part of the entire end-to-end AJAX solution (notably database  
access abstraction). That's why I think there -- and the development  
of AJAX interface design tools -- is where Rev's 'sweet spot" in the  
AJAX/RIA application "revolution" lies.


On Nov 15, 2005, at 9:23 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:

> The advantageous differences are:
>
> AJAX -- there isn't just one engine: multiple web browsers  
> supported, some open source.
> AJAX -- the engines are on just about every modern computer.
>
> Revolution -- a reasonably complete set of UI widgets.
> Revolution -- a more application-like interface: menus, command- 
> keys, etc.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov 16 14:02:28 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 20:02:28 +0100
Subject: deleteDups() [a bit OT]
In-Reply-To: <D7E7D478-A6C3-4864-8267-CC9FB3EA46C5@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <1f9.172c54ff.30acaa74@aol.com>
	<D7E7D478-A6C3-4864-8267-CC9FB3EA46C5@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <0AAD5E03-29C3-42D0-832C-73EACC392CBC@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi all,

I would like only to point out the beauty of XTalks languages: you  
have always many ways to do a thing.
Some can be verbose, difficult to read, not optimised but work.
Other are more elegant, shorter and/or faster.
In all cases, I would call that creativity :-)
That's one of the reasons why this list is so much friendly and  
reactive.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

PS. Jacque, I love your solution...
As usual, women come immediately to essential ;-)

Le 16 nov. 05 ? 17:24, Geoff Canyon a ?crit :

>
> On Nov 16, 2005, at 7:29 AM, HyperChris at aol.com wrote:
>
>> Chris wrote:
>> function deleteDups pList
>>     repeat with x=number of lines in pList down to 2
>>     if line x of pList is line (x-1) of pList then delete line x  
>> of pList
>>     end repeat
>>   return pList
>> end deleteDups
>>
>> then Eric Chatonet wrote ...
>> function deleteDups pList
>>   local tLine,tStrippedList
>>   -----
>>   repeat for each line tLine in pList
>>      if tLine is not among the lines of tStrippedList
>>      then put tLine & cr after tStrippedList
>>    end repeat
>>   return word 1 to -1 of tStrippedList
>> end deleteDups
>>
>> then J. Landman Gay wrote ...
>> function deleteDups pList
>>    split pList by cr and numToChar(3)
>>    return keys(pList)
>> end deleteDups
>>
>>
>> You have enlarged my universe. Using "for each" is several orders of
>> magnitude faster than my original script and "split" is faster still.
>
> Bother -- it happened again. First we had repeat for each turning  
> up faster than the filter command. Now I've done a test on the  
> following, and it looks like the split command takes not quite  
> twice as long as repeat for each (when repeat for each is handled  
> the following way).
>
> function deleteDupes pList -- does _not_ retain sort order
>   repeat for each line L in pList
>     put 1 into temp[L]
>   end repeat
>   return the keys of temp
> end deleteDupes

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Nov 16 14:20:11 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:20:11 -0800
Subject: OT: de Smet C compiler
In-Reply-To: <D8F49207-162F-4D71-974D-5683E20487D8@conncoll.edu>
References: <A0F6C525-235D-4AFD-BA90-978611129C06@wanadoo.nl>
	<4B196F09-9E25-4DE5-814F-927FFC8EB4F0@conncoll.edu>
	<0668DA95-4B2F-4942-8A51-EDC1BF0C750F@wanadoo.nl>
	<10177544543.20051116100703@ahsoftware.net>
	<D8F49207-162F-4D71-974D-5683E20487D8@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <5481932602.20051116112011@ahsoftware.net>

Charles-

Wednesday, November 16, 2005, 10:29:05 AM, you wrote:

> Absolutely. First affordable, reasonably complete programming system
> on a widely available PC, if I remember correctly (which I probably
> don't). It was good; it worked; you could do anything you could think
> of with it, at the time.

...and small and fast. I used to carry my development environment
around on a floppy when I needed to go somewhere.

...and amazingly enough, it's been open-sourced...

http://www.desmet-c.com/

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Wed Nov 16 14:32:05 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:32:05 -0800
Subject: deleteDups()
In-Reply-To: <437B6FE3.7000802@tweedly.net>
References: <1f9.172c54ff.30acaa74@aol.com>
	<D7E7D478-A6C3-4864-8267-CC9FB3EA46C5@inspiredlogic.com>
	<437B6FE3.7000802@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <1411B857-3F73-43A0-9545-9164B31046A1@inspiredlogic.com>


On Nov 16, 2005, at 9:44 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Geoff Canyon wrote:
>
>>
>> Bother -- it happened again. First we had repeat for each turning  
>> up  faster than the filter command. Now I've done a test on the   
>> following, and it looks like the split command takes not quite  
>> twice  as long as repeat for each (when repeat for each is handled  
>> the  following way).
>>
> I wonder if this is because the "split" method used a secondary  
> delimiter (numtochar(3)) which doesn't exist in the data. (Nothing  
> to do with the choice of secondaryDelimiter - you need to pick one  
> that isn't in the data).

That's what I suspect.


From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Wed Nov 16 14:35:42 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:35:42 -0800
Subject: deleteDups()
In-Reply-To: <437B7458.3010400@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <1f9.172c54ff.30acaa74@aol.com>
	<D7E7D478-A6C3-4864-8267-CC9FB3EA46C5@inspiredlogic.com>
	<437B7458.3010400@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <B37674D9-92B4-497E-B608-78D3A5828589@inspiredlogic.com>


On Nov 16, 2005, at 10:03 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Wow. That's good to know. Who woulda thunk? Our of curiosity, how  
> long is "twice as long"? Is it minimal, or something we have to  
> think about for long lists?

On a 1ghz powerbook I ran a check on a list with something like  
30,000 entries, all 7 characters long, with no dupes in the list.

I ran the de-dupe routine 100 times in roughly 400 ticks for the  
repeat for each version, 700 ticks for the split version.

Obviously that's 4 ticks for one iteration vs. 7, so we're not  
talking the end of civilization here.

gc


From mark at maseurope.net  Wed Nov 16 14:44:32 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:44:32 +0000
Subject: deleteDups()
In-Reply-To: <B37674D9-92B4-497E-B608-78D3A5828589@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <1f9.172c54ff.30acaa74@aol.com>
	<D7E7D478-A6C3-4864-8267-CC9FB3EA46C5@inspiredlogic.com>
	<437B7458.3010400@hyperactivesw.com>
	<B37674D9-92B4-497E-B608-78D3A5828589@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <A2F2CF61-0D41-421C-95F2-4C8AB8EC22CD@maseurope.net>

I wonder if the kind or amount of data has an effect. The data I used  
was a list of about 10000 lines, each consisting of 7 items, from 4  
to 12 characters each.
I also made sure that about 1 in 5 lines was duplicated.

One application of the deleteDups function with 'split' - 60 - 65 ms.  
With 'for each', 75 to 85 ms., so civilisation is definitely safe :)


Mark

On 16 Nov 2005, at 19:35, Geoff Canyon wrote:

>
> On Nov 16, 2005, at 10:03 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
>> Wow. That's good to know. Who woulda thunk? Our of curiosity, how  
>> long is "twice as long"? Is it minimal, or something we have to  
>> think about for long lists?
>
> On a 1ghz powerbook I ran a check on a list with something like  
> 30,000 entries, all 7 characters long, with no dupes in the list.
>
> I ran the de-dupe routine 100 times in roughly 400 ticks for the  
> repeat for each version, 700 ticks for the split version.
>
> Obviously that's 4 ticks for one iteration vs. 7, so we're not  
> talking the end of civilization here.
>
> gc
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From stevef at upnaway.com  Wed Nov 16 15:52:28 2005
From: stevef at upnaway.com (Flavel Steve)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 04:52:28 +0800
Subject: Printing Field Borders
Message-ID: <E0E0694E-5B18-4915-A24B-FDA04FACCA5F@upnaway.com>


Hi

I am having the same problem as described in the thread below (from  
the archives 12th May 2005)

However I can't find the solution.
In my case printing bordered fields on Windows loses the left border.
I have posted a simple example in the user spaces, Programming/ 
Printing Test

On the Mac the fields appear to print much thicker than 1 pixel.

Any suggestions much appreciated

Steve Flavel


... the May thread

Also,

I have found by setting the *field* margins (not the printmargin) to a
*higher number* fixes most all text truncation issues. Please try it.

-Chipp

J. Landman Gay wrote:
 > On 5/12/05 2:19 AM, Timothy Due wrote:
 >
 >> Anyway, one problem I have been having is getting field borders to
 >> print properly. I have read in these archives that when field  
borders
 >> are butted-up together that can cause problems, but I am even having
 >> problems in cases where the fields are not touching or near any  
other
 >> object. I have tried on 2 differrent systems (Win XP and 98) using 2
 >> different printers, with inconsistent and unexpected results.
 >> Commonly, the left and top border does not print.
 >>
 >> Is this a bug in Rev? If so, is there any plan to have it fixed?
 >> Alternatively, is there a viable workaround?
 >
 >
 > It sounds like the printmargins are set so that they are cutting  
off too
 > much of the top and left sides of the page. If it is only the  
fields at
 > the top left of the page that do this, then the margins are  
probably the
 > problem. Try setting a smaller printmargin (or setting it to 0, as a
 > test) or else move your fields slightly closer to toward the  
center of
 > the card and see what happens.
 >
 > If a field in the dead center of the card prints without part of its
 > border, then there is something else wrong. Let us know if that  
happens
 > and we'll brainstorm.
 >







From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Wed Nov 16 16:17:40 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 13:17:40 -0800
Subject: deleteDups() -- split is faster
In-Reply-To: <24d.15760f5.30acce6e@aol.com>
References: <24d.15760f5.30acce6e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CB81D81-5B80-4D98-9AB5-44DB3FF4028C@inspiredlogic.com>

'doh! -- I made a mistake -- see below:

On Nov 16, 2005, at 10:03 AM, HyperChris at aol.com wrote:

> Thanks Geoff. Actually, I am getting split as four times faster
> than 'for each' (under v2.6.0 & 2.6.1)


On Nov 16, 2005, at 10:51 AM, Mark Smith wrote:
> I'm getting the split version as about 10% faster than 'repeat for  
> each'

If you're using Eric's version, this line is hurting your performance:

      if tLine is not among the lines of tStrippedList

This line is faster, and doesn't degrade as quickly with larger lists:

      put 1 into y[L]

That said, I re-did the test with the actual functions:

function deleteDups pList -- does _not_ retain input order
   split pList by cr and numToChar(3)
   return keys(pList)
end deleteDups

function deleteDupes pList -- does _not_ retain input order
   repeat for each line L in pList
     put 1 into x[L]
   end repeat
   return the keys of x
end deleteDupes

And found that variable initialization is a big factor, and isn't  
taken into account in a simple "do this 100 times" repeat loop. The  
end result is that putting both the above functions to the test, I  
get much the same result as Mark Smith: the split command was about  
20% faster for me: 9 ticks vs. 11 ticks.

If you want to retain the input order, this took about 14 ticks:

function deDupe pList -- retains input order
   repeat for each line L in pList
     if x[L] is empty then put L & cr after tReturn
     put 1 into x[L]
   end repeat
   return char 1 to -2 of tReturn
end deDupe

If you are certain that the duplicates are sequential, this takes  
only 5 ticks:

function deDupe2 pList -- retains input order, assumes dupes are  
sequential
   put empty into tLast
   repeat for each line L in pList
     if L is tLast then next repeat
     put L & cr after tReturn
     put L into tLast
   end repeat
   return char 1 to -2 of tReturn
end deDupe2

regards,

Geoff




From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Wed Nov 16 16:39:16 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 13:39:16 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>
	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>
	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>


On Nov 16, 2005, at 11:01 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> So *if* -- and that's a big "if" -- the *only* advantages of Rev  
> over AJAX is the UI componentry, then Rev has essentially little or  
> no advantage.

Based on what I've seen of AJAX apps, it's not a small advantage.

But I should have expanded on the difference that I think really  
matters:

> Revolution -- data and code can be more easily stored on the user's  
> computer, during and between sessions.
> AJAX -- applications can be used more freely without worrying about  
> the security of information on your hard drive.

For apps that don't require local storage, AJAX is a compelling  
solution, and Rev's ability to erase the user's hard drive is a  
serious liability.

For apps that require local storage, AJAX has no reasonable answer at  
this time. It will be interesting to see what they do to address this  
(if they do).

It's interesting that we freely download applications with full file  
system access from web sites and run them, and there are few cases  
where someone actually created a trojan application, but we are  
paranoid to allow the same file system functionality within a browser- 
based application.

In essence we currently have security through barrier-to-entry --  
it's theoretically harder to write an application in C (or even  
REALbasic) than it is to put up a web page.

But that isn't true, as we well know. Just as it is for benign  
applications, it is far easier to put together a hostile  application  
in Revolution than it would be to write a similar application in  
AJAX, even if AJAX had access to the file system. I'd bet "Good-bye,  
World," a sample program to overwrite the user's hard drive file by  
file, could be written in under 50 lines of code.

So if AJAX apps are secure but need local storage, and Rev apps have  
local storage but need security, which will get what it needs first?

gc


From wdesmet at wanadoo.nl  Wed Nov 16 17:04:30 2005
From: wdesmet at wanadoo.nl (William de Smet)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:04:30 +0100
Subject: How do I eliminate the spaceKey in a field?
Message-ID: <0B520D85-AAAE-45F0-B8D7-E8D2EA45362E@wanadoo.nl>

Hi there,

I am trying to limit the input into a field.
Therefore I already used the returninField code but now I want to  
block out the spacebarKey/spaceKey (don't know the English word)  
because I don't want
the user to put a space after a word.

I've already looked at the RawKeyDown-  and KeysDown  function  but I  
can't figure it out.
Is it possible wat I want?

So far I use the following code in the field:
on returnInField
    put line 1 of me into me
    answer "Er mag maar ??n woord in dit veld!" with "OK"
end returnInField

on closeField
    if return is in me then
      returnInField
    end if
    pass closefield
end closefield


Thanks!
William de Smet



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov 16 17:08:52 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:08:52 +0100
Subject: How do I eliminate the spaceKey in a field?
In-Reply-To: <0B520D85-AAAE-45F0-B8D7-E8D2EA45362E@wanadoo.nl>
References: <0B520D85-AAAE-45F0-B8D7-E8D2EA45362E@wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <39DF7F67-A819-41B9-BD6F-DB7637B1B6E3@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi William,

Something as the following should do the trick:

on keyDown pKey
   if charToNum(pKey) <> 32 then pass keydown
end keyDown

Have a look at charToNum and NumtoChar very useful functions in the  
docs.
Hope this helps.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 16 nov. 05 ? 23:04, William de Smet a ?crit :

> I am trying to limit the input into a field.
> Therefore I already used the returninField code but now I want to  
> block out the spacebarKey/spaceKey (don't know the English word)  
> because I don't want
> the user to put a space after a word.
>
> I've already looked at the RawKeyDown-  and KeysDown  function  but  
> I can't figure it out.
> Is it possible wat I want?
>
> So far I use the following code in the field:
> on returnInField
>    put line 1 of me into me
>    answer "Er mag maar ??n woord in dit veld!" with "OK"
> end returnInField
>
> on closeField
>    if return is in me then
>      returnInField
>    end if
>    pass closefield
> end closefield

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From wdesmet at wanadoo.nl  Wed Nov 16 17:18:49 2005
From: wdesmet at wanadoo.nl (William de Smet)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:18:49 +0100
Subject: How do I eliminate the spaceKey in a field?
In-Reply-To: <39DF7F67-A819-41B9-BD6F-DB7637B1B6E3@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <0B520D85-AAAE-45F0-B8D7-E8D2EA45362E@wanadoo.nl>
	<39DF7F67-A819-41B9-BD6F-DB7637B1B6E3@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <21A5EB97-1C38-4507-932C-2BBA99FC9028@wanadoo.nl>

Hi Eric,

It worked! Thanks a lot!
I call it a day for now and will start working on it tomorrow.

Greetings from a rainy en stormy Holland!

William de Smet



Op 16-nov-2005, om 23:08 heeft Eric Chatonet het volgende geschreven:

> Hi William,
>
> Something as the following should do the trick:
>
> on keyDown pKey
>   if charToNum(pKey) <> 32 then pass keydown
> end keyDown
>
> Have a look at charToNum and NumtoChar very useful functions in the  
> docs.
> Hope this helps.
>
> Best Regards from Paris,
>
> Eric Chatonet.
>
> Le 16 nov. 05 ? 23:04, William de Smet a ?crit :
>
>
>> I am trying to limit the input into a field.
>> Therefore I already used the returninField code but now I want to  
>> block out the spacebarKey/spaceKey (don't know the English word)  
>> because I don't want
>> the user to put a space after a word.
>>
>> I've already looked at the RawKeyDown-  and KeysDown  function   
>> but I can't figure it out.
>> Is it possible wat I want?
>>
>> So far I use the following code in the field:
>> on returnInField
>>    put line 1 of me into me
>>    answer "Er mag maar ??n woord in dit veld!" with "OK"
>> end returnInField
>>
>> on closeField
>>    if return is in me then
>>      returnInField
>>    end if
>>    pass closefield
>> end closefield
>>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> So Smart Software
>
> For institutions, companies and associations
> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov 16 17:24:07 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 14:24:07 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>
	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>
	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>
	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>

Good job focusing this aspect of the discussion, Geoff.

On Nov 16, 2005, at 1:39 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:

> So if AJAX apps are secure but need local storage, and Rev apps  
> have local storage but need security, which will get what it needs  
> first?

My position: once a machine has been booted and the user has logged  
into a server/service where his "stuff" is, local storage can be made  
completely unnecessary. Note, I'm not saying it should or must be  
made unnecessary, just that it's possible. I can't think of a  
*technical* reason why my user ID, password, etc., can't be stored on  
a server. The only question is where and how does authentication  
occur. Today, there are increasing advances being made in biometric  
mechanisms (thumb-prints, retinal scans, etc.), which is one way of  
addressing this problem. Another is with a secure external (think USB  
thumb drive) device on which my security info is stored and secured.  
There are several technologies out there that do this now.

So, my bottom line on *this * issue: AJAX apps have a solid edge.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Wed Nov 16 17:42:09 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 14:42:09 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>
	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>
	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>
	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>
	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <9CF650B5-399A-405D-A0FA-030DD663D897@inspiredlogic.com>


On Nov 16, 2005, at 2:24 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> So, my bottom line on *[the local storage] * issue: AJAX apps have  
> a solid edge.

Agreed, but only once wireless becomes universally available. That's  
going to be some time coming.


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Nov 16 17:56:03 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 14:56:03 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>
	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <437BB903.6000501@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:
> So, my bottom line on *this * issue: AJAX apps have a solid edge.

Does that mean we'll see this thread move to the AJAX list?

;)

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From see3d at writeme.com  Wed Nov 16 17:59:43 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 17:59:43 -0500
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>
	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>
	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>
	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>
	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <E9963829-B5B2-47F2-B1F2-E4F9684D29F3@writeme.com>

Sorry, I am joining this thread late and this might be a bit of a  
backup.

How does this differ in principle from a LAN or WLAN tablet pc?  The  
display and input is in your hand, but the computing service,  
storage, and other I/O are located somewhere else.  The only  
difference is the communication link.  So if that is the case, I  
think that the tablet concept will need to be a successful model  
first.  Not that I am saying it won't be, I happen to think it is a  
viable model as well as home timesharing networks.  Once this model  
is in place, it is a micro-step to putting some computing services on  
the other side of the internet.  If it works at home, why won't it  
will work across the world --or the other way around?

Dennis

On Nov 16, 2005, at 5:24 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Good job focusing this aspect of the discussion, Geoff.
>
> On Nov 16, 2005, at 1:39 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:
>
>> So if AJAX apps are secure but need local storage, and Rev apps  
>> have local storage but need security, which will get what it needs  
>> first?
>
> My position: once a machine has been booted and the user has logged  
> into a server/service where his "stuff" is, local storage can be  
> made completely unnecessary. Note, I'm not saying it should or must  
> be made unnecessary, just that it's possible. I can't think of a  
> *technical* reason why my user ID, password, etc., can't be stored  
> on a server. The only question is where and how does authentication  
> occur. Today, there are increasing advances being made in biometric  
> mechanisms (thumb-prints, retinal scans, etc.), which is one way of  
> addressing this problem. Another is with a secure external (think  
> USB thumb drive) device on which my security info is stored and  
> secured. There are several technologies out there that do this now.
>
> So, my bottom line on *this * issue: AJAX apps have a solid edge.
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
> http://www.shafermedia.com
> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Nov 16 18:07:05 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:07:05 -0800
Subject: Printing Field Borders
In-Reply-To: <E0E0694E-5B18-4915-A24B-FDA04FACCA5F@upnaway.com>
References: <E0E0694E-5B18-4915-A24B-FDA04FACCA5F@upnaway.com>
Message-ID: <437BBB99.9080407@fourthworld.com>

Flavel Steve wrote:
> In my case printing bordered fields on Windows loses the left border.
> I have posted a simple example in the user spaces, Programming/ Printing 
> Test
> 
> On the Mac the fields appear to print much thicker than 1 pixel.

I passed this question to Dan Friedman, a powerhouse Rev developer -- 
here's his reply:

----------
Yeah, this is the same problem I had.  I never was able to fix it, so I 
just got around it.  I ended up turning off the border of the field and 
putting a graphic rectangle around the field.  Rev prints the graphic's 
border ok, but not the field's border.

This work-around adds some extra overhead to the stack (in my case LOTS 
of extra controls), but it did solve the problem.
---------

Hope that helps....

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Wed Nov 16 18:09:58 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:09:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511161507220.315-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Funny, we just talked about biometric stuff in class a couple of weeks
back.

Of course, one problem with things like thumb/face scans is that they can
be cut off your body (happened to a guy whose MB got carjacked and which
used biometrics for access).

As for your face, well, there's a doctor somewhere in  Europe I think who
will shortly (within a few years) attempt a facial transplant.  Already
done it with rats and the like.  I kid you not.

Judy

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005, Dan Shafer wrote:

> occur. Today, there are increasing advances being made in biometric
> mechanisms (thumb-prints, retinal scans, etc.), which is one way of
> addressing this problem.





From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov 16 18:28:33 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:28:33 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <9CF650B5-399A-405D-A0FA-030DD663D897@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>
	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>
	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>
	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>
	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>
	<9CF650B5-399A-405D-A0FA-030DD663D897@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <E4C895C1-0F48-42EA-9420-23E90CA936BB@danshafer.com>

Not sure I see a connection here, Geoff. If my data's on a server,  
how I access it seems irrelevant to the question of its availability.

Of course, all of us await the day when wireless is ubiquitous. And  
Google may make that happen just for grins.

Dan

On Nov 16, 2005, at 2:42 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:

>
> On Nov 16, 2005, at 2:24 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>> So, my bottom line on *[the local storage] * issue: AJAX apps have  
>> a solid edge.
>
> Agreed, but only once wireless becomes universally available.  
> That's going to be some time coming.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov 16 18:30:44 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:30:44 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <E9963829-B5B2-47F2-B1F2-E4F9684D29F3@writeme.com>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>
	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>
	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>
	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>
	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>
	<E9963829-B5B2-47F2-B1F2-E4F9684D29F3@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <34071EAB-D5AB-4ACA-85E2-6AC2B0326B0B@danshafer.com>

Dennis.....

The tablet PC is just a side issue here. My original point with  
respect to this issue was that a "zero-pound computer" was a  
desirable objective. This means that my data and my applications live  
on a server somewhere and I can access them from anywhere, whether I  
have "my" computer with me at the time or not. I can go to a kiosk,  
FedEx Kinko's, wireless hot spot with a handheld...whatever.

Dan

On Nov 16, 2005, at 2:59 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:

> Sorry, I am joining this thread late and this might be a bit of a  
> backup.
>
> How does this differ in principle from a LAN or WLAN tablet pc?   
> The display and input is in your hand, but the computing service,  
> storage, and other I/O are located somewhere else.  The only  
> difference is the communication link.  So if that is the case, I  
> think that the tablet concept will need to be a successful model  
> first.  Not that I am saying it won't be, I happen to think it is a  
> viable model as well as home timesharing networks.  Once this model  
> is in place, it is a micro-step to putting some computing services  
> on the other side of the internet.  If it works at home, why won't  
> it will work across the world --or the other way around?
>
> Dennis
>
> On Nov 16, 2005, at 5:24 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>> Good job focusing this aspect of the discussion, Geoff.
>>
>> On Nov 16, 2005, at 1:39 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:
>>
>>> So if AJAX apps are secure but need local storage, and Rev apps  
>>> have local storage but need security, which will get what it  
>>> needs first?
>>
>> My position: once a machine has been booted and the user has  
>> logged into a server/service where his "stuff" is, local storage  
>> can be made completely unnecessary. Note, I'm not saying it should  
>> or must be made unnecessary, just that it's possible. I can't  
>> think of a *technical* reason why my user ID, password, etc.,  
>> can't be stored on a server. The only question is where and how  
>> does authentication occur. Today, there are increasing advances  
>> being made in biometric mechanisms (thumb-prints, retinal scans,  
>> etc.), which is one way of addressing this problem. Another is  
>> with a secure external (think USB thumb drive) device on which my  
>> security info is stored and secured. There are several  
>> technologies out there that do this now.
>>
>> So, my bottom line on *this * issue: AJAX apps have a solid edge.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
>> http://www.shafermedia.com
>> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Wed Nov 16 18:30:21 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:30:21 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511161507220.315-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511161507220.315-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <3B9FD04A-A006-4EAB-A85D-DCB747729F1E@inspiredlogic.com>


On Nov 16, 2005, at 3:09 PM, Judy Perry wrote:

> Funny, we just talked about biometric stuff in class a couple of weeks
> back.
>
> Of course, one problem with things like thumb/face scans is that  
> they can
> be cut off your body (happened to a guy whose MB got carjacked and  
> which
> used biometrics for access).
>
> As for your face, well, there's a doctor somewhere in  Europe I  
> think who
> will shortly (within a few years) attempt a facial transplant.   
> Already
> done it with rats and the like.  I kid you not.

Under the heading of "I kid you not:" I once read on a web site  
discussing biometric identification the following words (roughly).

      Of course, you may be thinking, "What happens if someone cuts  
out my eye?"
      The answer to that is simple: our biometric devices are  
designed to detect
      the pulse in the blood vessels as it scans them. If there is no  
pulse, the
      scan will fail even if the pattern matches.

It makes sense after you get past the ewww part.


From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov 16 18:31:17 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:31:17 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511161507220.315-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511161507220.315-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <07894641-8334-4280-B9AF-513C0DD3653A@danshafer.com>

I can only shake my head.

Dan

On Nov 16, 2005, at 3:09 PM, Judy Perry wrote:

> Funny, we just talked about biometric stuff in class a couple of weeks
> back.
>
> Of course, one problem with things like thumb/face scans is that  
> they can
> be cut off your body (happened to a guy whose MB got carjacked and  
> which
> used biometrics for access).
>
> As for your face, well, there's a doctor somewhere in  Europe I  
> think who
> will shortly (within a few years) attempt a facial transplant.   
> Already
> done it with rats and the like.  I kid you not.
>
> Judy
>
> On Wed, 16 Nov 2005, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>> occur. Today, there are increasing advances being made in biometric
>> mechanisms (thumb-prints, retinal scans, etc.), which is one way of
>> addressing this problem.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov 16 18:31:50 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:31:50 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <437BB903.6000501@fourthworld.com>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>
	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>
	<437BB903.6000501@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <F4867DA0-6BFA-4016-9FBA-F4D461C870F7@danshafer.com>

Richard....

This thread can end here any time it wants. I stopped being proactive  
on it a long time ago. I just keep answering questions people post.

:-)

Dan

On Nov 16, 2005, at 2:56 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Dan Shafer wrote:
>> So, my bottom line on *this * issue: AJAX apps have a solid edge.
>
> Does that mean we'll see this thread move to the AJAX list?
>
> ;)
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Managing Editor, revJournal
>  _______________________________________________________
>  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Nov 16 18:49:59 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:49:59 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <34071EAB-D5AB-4ACA-85E2-6AC2B0326B0B@danshafer.com>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>	<E9963829-B5B2-47F2-B1F2-E4F9684D29F3@writeme.com>
	<34071EAB-D5AB-4ACA-85E2-6AC2B0326B0B@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <437BC5A7.4010907@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:
> My original point with  respect to this issue was that a "zero-pound
> computer" was a  desirable objective. This means that my data and
> my applications live  on a server somewhere and I can access them
> from anywhere, whether I  have "my" computer with me at the time
> or not. I can go to a kiosk,  FedEx Kinko's, wireless hot spot...

Adobe Photoshop weighs in at 152MBs.

The everything-on-the-server thang may do wonders for our national 
literacy rate:

Downloading that user interface everytime a user wants to update their 
40MB files with it will give them plenty of time to read.

:)


To summarize this thread thus far:

- Many cool new things are coming on the 'Net
- Many cool things already exist on the desktop
- Much change will happen in this industry, as it always has
- Desktop apps won't disappear by next Thursday
- Adobe/Macromedia haven't tossed out their business plans
- Operating systems continue to exist, and sometimes people like them
- Apple and Microsoft haven't tossed their business plans either

It took twenty years to get from the invention of the Internet to its 
privatization, and another decade from its privatization to begin to ask 
the question of whether it means the end of operating systems and all 
applications except browsers.

I suspect us ol' dinosaurs making desktop apps still have at least few 
more years left before that question gets answered....

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Nov 16 18:52:45 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:52:45 +0000
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <34071EAB-D5AB-4ACA-85E2-6AC2B0326B0B@danshafer.com>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>	<E9963829-B5B2-47F2-B1F2-E4F9684D29F3@writeme.com>
	<34071EAB-D5AB-4ACA-85E2-6AC2B0326B0B@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <437BC64D.1000208@tweedly.net>

Dan Shafer wrote:

>
> The tablet PC is just a side issue here. My original point with  
> respect to this issue was that a "zero-pound computer" was a  
> desirable objective. This means that my data and my applications live  
> on a server somewhere and I can access them from anywhere, whether I  
> have "my" computer with me at the time or not. I can go to a kiosk,  
> FedEx Kinko's, wireless hot spot with a handheld...whatever.

The biggest hurdle to getting a "zero-pound computer" is getting access 
to secure data (e.g. on-line banking).

I have good confidence in the sanctity of my laptop, so I'm happy to use 
it, even over public wifi access, because all the traffic is ssh-secured 
end-to-end. But using a web cafe, or kiosk, public Internet access at a 
library, etc. all put me at risk; the encryption happens *after* the 
data is out of my control. I can't be sure there isn't a keylogger or 
similar there grabbing my password.

[ I'm hoping someone will describe a secure way around this problem. ]

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.2/170 - Release Date: 15/11/2005



From nuzoo2 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 16 19:01:25 2005
From: nuzoo2 at yahoo.com (Janus Jakaterina)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 16:01:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: mTropolis Refugees
Message-ID: <20051117000125.29608.qmail@web50202.mail.yahoo.com>

Are there many mTropolis folk now residing in the land
of Revolution?

If so, how is Revolution for behaviors, aliasing, and
messaging? 

Other than the arcade engine, which seems to be a 3rd
party product, can Revolution handle multiple moving
objects or collision detection?






		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Wed Nov 16 19:05:01 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:05:01 -0500
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <07894641-8334-4280-B9AF-513C0DD3653A@danshafer.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511161507220.315-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<07894641-8334-4280-B9AF-513C0DD3653A@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <1B3B36FD-45DF-425C-B98A-94C3475B1DB7@conncoll.edu>


On Nov 16, 2005, at 6:31 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> I can only shake my head.

*So far* you can. (Tomorrw Aunt Zelda may shake it for you . . .)

>
> Dan
>
> On Nov 16, 2005, at 3:09 PM, Judy Perry wrote:
>
>> Funny, we just talked about biometric stuff in class a couple of  
>> weeks
>> back.
>>
>> Of course, one problem with things like thumb/face scans is that  
>> they can
>> be cut off your body (happened to a guy whose MB got carjacked and  
>> which
>> used biometrics for access).
>>
>> As for your face, well, there's a doctor somewhere in  Europe I  
>> think who
>> will shortly (within a few years) attempt a facial transplant.   
>> Already
>> done it with rats and the like.  I kid you not.
>>
>> Judy
>>
>> On Wed, 16 Nov 2005, Dan Shafer wrote:
>>
>>> occur. Today, there are increasing advances being made in biometric
>>> mechanisms (thumb-prints, retinal scans, etc.), which is one way of
>>> addressing this problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
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From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Wed Nov 16 19:16:58 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 16:16:58 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <E4C895C1-0F48-42EA-9420-23E90CA936BB@danshafer.com>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>
	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>
	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>
	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>
	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>
	<9CF650B5-399A-405D-A0FA-030DD663D897@inspiredlogic.com>
	<E4C895C1-0F48-42EA-9420-23E90CA936BB@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <C925C7DA-3C93-48B5-B88D-EDE65CAE1294@inspiredlogic.com>


On Nov 16, 2005, at 3:28 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Not sure I see a connection here, Geoff. If my data's on a server,  
> how I access it seems irrelevant to the question of its availability.

I have all of my phone contacts stored on my computer. Some of them  
aren't on my cell phone (admittedly not many). If my phone contacts  
were stored on a server and I were someplace where I don't have  
access to the internet, I have no access to those contacts to look  
someone up and call them.

That's just one example. I have many things on my computer that I  
want access to whether or not I have network access.

Further, even after universal wireless access, speed can be an issue  
if large files are involved. As Richard pointed out, downloading  
150mb worth of Photoshop each time I want to use it isn't a good idea  
even at 802.11g speeds. Neither is downloading 30 megabytes of  
Revolution stackfiles each time I want to edit them.

For many applications, local storage is completely necessary until  
wireless access is 1. Everywhere 2. Really Fast.

For other applications, local storage is unnecessary.


From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov 16 19:29:56 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 16:29:56 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <437BC64D.1000208@tweedly.net>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>	<E9963829-B5B2-47F2-B1F2-E4F9684D29F3@writeme.com>
	<34071EAB-D5AB-4ACA-85E2-6AC2B0326B0B@danshafer.com>
	<437BC64D.1000208@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <A0CED478-6172-47CB-9528-A4042D72E3DD@danshafer.com>

First, there are several technologies that work around this problem.  
I am working with a startup that has a USB device that handles this  
issue nicely and I know of a couple of others. The problem is hardly  
intractable.

Second, what happens when you lose your laptop or have it stolen?  
This happens with shocking frequency these days and it's getting  
worse. I'd be a lot more concerned about THAT security issue than  
with the loss of data over relatively secured and busy Internet wires  
and signals.


On Nov 16, 2005, at 3:52 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> I have good confidence in the sanctity of my laptop, so I'm happy  
> to use it, even over public wifi access, because all the traffic is  
> ssh-secured end-to-end. But using a web cafe, or kiosk, public  
> Internet access at a library, etc. all put me at risk; the  
> encryption happens *after* the data is out of my control. I can't  
> be sure there isn't a keylogger or similar there grabbing my password.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Nov 16 19:36:50 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 16:36:50 -0800
Subject: mTropolis Refugees
In-Reply-To: <20051117000125.29608.qmail@web50202.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BFA110A2.25165%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently,Janus Jakaterina wrote:

> Are there many mTropolis folk now residing in the land
> of Revolution?

Not a refugee, more like a second cousin's nephew, twice removed, who
visited once in a while...

 
> If so, how is Revolution for behaviors, aliasing, and
> messaging? 

Again, I'm no mTropolis expert (mTropolis was a long time ago by the way),
but you can give objects their own behaviors that allow them to live, act
and die on their own using something like "send xyz to me..."  Messages can
also be passed from objects to the "environment" of the card and stack,
either using the previous "send..." command or automatically via Rev's
message hierarchy (see here for a good explanation of Rev's message path:
<http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/revolution_message_path.html>).

The issue you have to watch out for is having dozens of things happening on
screen at once; Rev is not really optimized for this kind of thing across
the board (low end graphics cards and/or processors can affect performance),
but with careful design (and lots of testing) you can get away with some
decent animation/movement.

 
> Other than the arcade engine, which seems to be a 3rd
> party product, can Revolution handle multiple moving
> objects or collision detection?

Yes to both.  You can search the list archives for more info on this, and
the following was posted just the other day:

Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:01:57 -0800
Subject: Re: maze wall algorithm
From: Scott Rossi
To: How to use Revolution

Recently,N Cueto wrote:

> If given a maze in the form of a
> grid
> ...
> then, what would be the
> ideal scripting for limiting
> "movement" between only
> contiguous squares that are
> not separated by a wall

The way I've done something like this in the past is to use physical
boundaries, in other words, using the intersect and/or within functions to
prevent/constrain movement in certain directions.  From your example, it's
not clear if you *need* to limit movement based on numerical progression,
but this could be handled easily via the loc property, as you guessed.

You could use rectangle "wall" graphics combined with the above functions to
allow for moveable obstacles, and test for collision with the graphics on
the current maze/screen.  Alternatively, if you were able to use a single
image as your maze, this would allow for testing intersect/within results
within a single object -- the image.  This is the benefit of using images
for collision detection in that you can test for non-transparent pixel
collisions, as opposed to using graphics which only allow for rects.  I
don't know if images would work in your situation but that was the technique
I used and it's reliable.

Let me know if this makes sense (or if not, maybe I can dig up an old demo).

Of course, one must also keep in mind Malte Brill's Arcade Engine...

[end post]


Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov 16 19:42:34 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 16:42:34 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <C925C7DA-3C93-48B5-B88D-EDE65CAE1294@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>
	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>
	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>
	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>
	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>
	<9CF650B5-399A-405D-A0FA-030DD663D897@inspiredlogic.com>
	<E4C895C1-0F48-42EA-9420-23E90CA936BB@danshafer.com>
	<C925C7DA-3C93-48B5-B88D-EDE65CAE1294@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <9F90933C-5DA6-48AC-959D-16AD5B9AB4CF@danshafer.com>

Geoff...

On Nov 16, 2005, at 4:16 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:

> Further, even after universal wireless access, speed can be an  
> issue if large files are involved. As Richard pointed out,  
> downloading 150mb worth of Photoshop each time I want to use it  
> isn't a good idea even at 802.11g speeds.

And AJAX never envisions downloading the application. The app runs on  
the server, the UI runs in the thin client (aka browser) and the data  
is stored on the server and transferred as necessary.

Photoshop may be one of the last apps to go this route.

Or maybe someone will find a way to re-factor what Photoshop does in  
such a way that it is even easier than it seems. (I don't know; I'm  
not a Photoshop user.)

> Neither is downloading 30 megabytes of Revolution stackfiles each  
> time I want to edit them.
>
Again, the notion is not necessarily that these large chunks of  
"stuff" are downloaded. The idea is to create a thin client that  
accesses the information in a clean, elegant, smooth way for you  
while letting everything "big" reside on the server.

> For many applications, local storage is completely necessary until  
> wireless access is 1. Everywhere 2. Really Fast.

As long as we think of apps in traditional terms, yes.

> I have all of my phone contacts stored on my computer. Some of them  
> aren't on my cell phone (admittedly not many). If my phone contacts  
> were stored on a server and I were someplace where I don't have  
> access to the internet, I have no access to those contacts to look  
> someone up and call them.

I don't disagree that in the absence of Internet ubiquity there are  
such needs. I simply argue that Internet ubiquity is not that far off  
and that we'd do well to be prepared for its arrival.




-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.eclecticity.com




From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Nov 16 19:44:14 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 00:44:14 +0000
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <C925C7DA-3C93-48B5-B88D-EDE65CAE1294@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>	<9CF650B5-399A-405D-A0FA-030DD663D897@inspiredlogic.com>	<E4C895C1-0F48-42EA-9420-23E90CA936BB@danshafer.com>
	<C925C7DA-3C93-48B5-B88D-EDE65CAE1294@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <437BD25E.7090301@tweedly.net>

Geoff Canyon wrote:

>
> On Nov 16, 2005, at 3:28 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>> Not sure I see a connection here, Geoff. If my data's on a server,  
>> how I access it seems irrelevant to the question of its availability.
>
>
> I have all of my phone contacts stored on my computer. Some of them  
> aren't on my cell phone (admittedly not many). If my phone contacts  
> were stored on a server and I were someplace where I don't have  
> access to the internet, I have no access to those contacts to look  
> someone up and call them.
>
How would you have access to a phone without access to the Internet ?

OK, we're not quite there yet, but it's easy to imagine that basic 
"Internet" access will be a common phone feature, so phones will provide 
a (more or less) easy way to access your data on the server.


> That's just one example. I have many things on my computer that I  
> want access to whether or not I have network access.

I almost never lack access to a phone / cellphone (unfortunately). The 
distinction between that and Internet access will likely fade, if not 
disappear completely, in the next couple of years. Just because the 
cell-phone guys screwed up with the limitations of WAP, don't assume 
they'll still be failing at data access in a couple of years.

[As an aside, I've always wished that digital phone answering machines 
would "grow up" to provide facilities such as you get on voice-mail 
systems, like variable speed play-back and access to stored phone 
numbers - but that hasn't happened (at least, not in my price range). 
Maybe VOIP, with its potential to provide greater integration of Voice 
and Data will finally get some enterprising manufacturer to come up with 
a system that provides the features I've always wanted - including 
touch-tone driven menus + text-to-speech to make this feasible even from 
basic phone handsets.]

>
> Further, even after universal wireless access, speed can be an issue  
> if large files are involved. As Richard pointed out, downloading  
> 150mb worth of Photoshop each time I want to use it isn't a good idea  
> even at 802.11g speeds. Neither is downloading 30 megabytes of  
> Revolution stackfiles each time I want to edit them.
>
> For many applications, local storage is completely necessary until  
> wireless access is 1. Everywhere 2. Really Fast.
>
My browser caches the web pages I access on my local disk - so even an 
AJAX app that "doesn't have local storage" kind of does really; the app 
can't decide to store something, but the underlying browser can and will 
use caching to improve performance.

This would apply (pretty well) to the case of applications, where the 
Web-Photoshop would be (presumably) a set of  modularized functions 
which could be cached. I suspect that most users never need more than 
about 50% of the features in Photoshop (maybe that should be 10% :-), so 
simple modularization + caching would reduce the 150Mb problem to 
infrequent downloads of updated modules and the occasional pause when I 
access a new feature for the first time.

This might in fact lead to even more homogeneity of applications - when 
you use an Internet cafe, you can either use Web-Photoshop which is 
cached (either on the local machine or on a nearby WebCache) or 
Web-PicturePaint, the new innovative competitor which is not typically 
not cached, and therefore performs relatively poorly due to download 
delays.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.2/170 - Release Date: 15/11/2005



From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Nov 16 19:51:58 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 00:51:58 +0000
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <A0CED478-6172-47CB-9528-A4042D72E3DD@danshafer.com>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>	<E9963829-B5B2-47F2-B1F2-E4F9684D29F3@writeme.com>	<34071EAB-D5AB-4ACA-85E2-6AC2B0326B0B@danshafer.com>	<437BC64D.1000208@tweedly.net>
	<A0CED478-6172-47CB-9528-A4042D72E3DD@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <437BD42E.2010106@tweedly.net>

Dan Shafer wrote:

> First, there are several technologies that work around this problem.  
> I am working with a startup that has a USB device that handles this  
> issue nicely and I know of a couple of others. The problem is hardly  
> intractable.
>
I'll be glad to hear about them when they are available - but today 
there is no apparent solution. I believe this is a hard problem. Today 
many Internet cafes don't allow you to attach USB devices. It needs to 
be more than a read-only storage device (since that could be read, 
copied and faked). And it must not require any communication from the 
keyboard or other system-based input devices.

I'm sure it's a tractable problem - but I don't believe it's easy, and I 
think it will take a lot to convince me it's secure.

> Second, what happens when you lose your laptop or have it stolen?  
> This happens with shocking frequency these days and it's getting  worse.

Nothing. I never use any "remember this password for me" features (for 
the important passwords), I have key files in encrypted directories,

> I'd be a lot more concerned about THAT security issue than  with the 
> loss of data over relatively secured and busy Internet wires  and 
> signals.

I'm not concerned about Internet wires and signals - I happily use 
Internet banking over public wifi - it's getting the data from the 
keyboard to the wire, or account info from the wire to the screen that 
worry me.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.2/170 - Release Date: 15/11/2005



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 20:03:17 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 11:03:17 +1000
Subject: open with on windows does not work with rev. Heeeeeelp :-)
In-Reply-To: <gemini.ipypq500455cf01ms.rev@armbase.com>
References: <gemini.ipypq500455cf01ms.rev@armbase.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511161703r68976d2fga91f702cd5b37bda@mail.gmail.com>

> So I doubleclicked on the plugin (has a .rev extension) and windows asked me
> what application I wanted to use. Since rev was not in the list, I clicked
> browse to go to the rev 2.6 folder and clicked on revolution.exe.
>
> I then clicked open and then OK. Oooooops. Windows XP did not recognise
> revolution.exe and set all the files with a .rev extension to firefox. :-(
>
> I tried going to the individual properties and diong it that way but still
> no luck. Windows does not recognise revolution as an app to associate
> fieltypes with.
>

I can't help, but I can confirm this except that in my case, Windows
insists on using WinRAR to boot my .rev stacks. When I choose "Open
with..." I get a list that does not include Revolution, so I choose
Browse and go and find the Revolution.exe. After finding it, it still
doesn't appear in the list, so I can't select it and I can't tell
Windows to use it for all .rev files.

I assumed it was just me as I am not a Windows person, but maybe it is
Rev. Should I try re-installing? I uninstalled WinRAR but that didn't
help.

Sarah


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 20:14:19 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 11:14:19 +1000
Subject: revCopyFile progress bar
In-Reply-To: <a06020407bf9fb914eb44@192.168.2.3>
References: <20051115081132.AE88282507A@mail.runrev.com>
	<a06020407bf9fb914eb44@192.168.2.3>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511161714k4cfb183bl607ee9ce5968f0a1@mail.gmail.com>

> Is it possible to have a progress bar while a file is being copied to
> a server with the revCopyFile command. The files are fairly large and
> take a minute or so to copy. The computer is actually copying the
> file but to the user it appears as if the computer has locked up.
>

Is it possible to use FTP instead of just copying the file? Then you
can use the URL status to detect the progress and display it
accordingly. Also, it can be non-clocking so that other things can
happen during the upload.

Sarah


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Wed Nov 16 20:24:55 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 11:24:55 +1000
Subject: Cmd-A doesn't work from Keyboard in Standalone
In-Reply-To: <65BD39E1-983A-4953-BE9E-5F557CCFF8DC@hindu.org>
References: <65BD39E1-983A-4953-BE9E-5F557CCFF8DC@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511161724ma2dd21doa7e06ed588a742a7@mail.gmail.com>

> I have a pulldown menu button on  group shared across all cards in a
> stack... the standard "Edit".
>
> Select All/A
>
> the cmd symbol for the Mac appears as expected to the right of the
> menu item in the pull down.
>
> case "Select All"
> if the selected fld is not empty then select text of the selected field.
> break
>
> If I run this stack from m stand alone player, the item to select all
> text in a field only works if the user mouses up to the button and
> pulls it down and chooses that item. So the script it OK... But, if
> the user puts his cursor into a fld and clicks cmd-A from the
> keyboard it doesn't work??
>

If the script is OK, then it has to be a key problem. Do you have a
commandKeyDown handler that could be blocking the command key? Or a
keyDown, keyUp, rawKeyDown or rawKeyUp handler that could be blocking
the 'A'?

Sarah


From macstacks at earthlink.net  Wed Nov 16 20:42:01 2005
From: macstacks at earthlink.net (Bruce A. Pokras)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 20:42:01 -0500
Subject: Downloading mystery
Message-ID: <a06110400bfa18dae2541@[192.168.1.102]>

I am trying to script the downloading of European patents from the 
European Patent Office's server. They provide a sample URL to use for 
that purpose, but instead of the patent, I instantly get a zero size 
file. I've tried it with and without URLencode. However, scriptiing 
with revGoURL works fine with the same URL to open the patent in my 
browser. Any ideas? The script I am using goes like this:

on mouseup
put 
"https://publications.european-patent-office.org/PublicationServer/getpdf.jsp?cc=EP&pn=1502503&ki=A1" 
into theURL
    
put URL theURL into URL "binfile:1502503.pdf"
end mouseup

Could it be that Rev is allergic to JavaServer Pages? I hope not. 
Thanks for any help that you might be able to give.

Regards,

Bruce Pokras

From stevef at upnaway.com  Wed Nov 16 20:43:23 2005
From: stevef at upnaway.com (Flavel Steve)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 09:43:23 +0800
Subject: Printing Field Borders
In-Reply-To: <437BBB99.9080407@fourthworld.com>
References: <E0E0694E-5B18-4915-A24B-FDA04FACCA5F@upnaway.com>
	<437BBB99.9080407@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <17E38791-CA12-4B7A-A8EA-A69E1C5512FF@upnaway.com>






On 17/11/2005, at 7:07 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Flavel Steve wrote:
>> In my case printing bordered fields on Windows loses the left border.
>> I have posted a simple example in the user spaces, Programming/  
>> Printing Test
>> On the Mac the fields appear to print much thicker than 1 pixel.
>
> I passed this question to Dan Friedman, a powerhouse Rev developer  
> -- here's his reply:
>
> ----------
> Yeah, this is the same problem I had.  I never was able to fix it,  
> so I just got around it.  I ended up turning off the border of the  
> field and putting a graphic rectangle around the field.  Rev prints  
> the graphic's border ok, but not the field's border.
>
> This work-around adds some extra overhead to the stack (in my case  
> LOTS of extra controls), but it did solve the problem.
Thanks Richard
I have done a similar work around as yours for one group of fields,  
but as my example shows, even lines and boxes are printed incorrectly  
from Windows. This is a pain as I have lots of bordered fields.


Steve

> ---------
>
> Hope that helps....
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Managing Editor, revJournal
>  _______________________________________________________
>  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Wed Nov 16 20:43:19 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 17:43:19 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <9F90933C-5DA6-48AC-959D-16AD5B9AB4CF@danshafer.com>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>
	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>
	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>
	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>
	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>
	<9CF650B5-399A-405D-A0FA-030DD663D897@inspiredlogic.com>
	<E4C895C1-0F48-42EA-9420-23E90CA936BB@danshafer.com>
	<C925C7DA-3C93-48B5-B88D-EDE65CAE1294@inspiredlogic.com>
	<9F90933C-5DA6-48AC-959D-16AD5B9AB4CF@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <F2E7658C-2F7E-41D8-B9EF-DCA55FDABF33@inspiredlogic.com>


On Nov 16, 2005, at 4:42 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Geoff...
>
> On Nov 16, 2005, at 4:16 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:
>
>> Further, even after universal wireless access, speed can be an  
>> issue if large files are involved. As Richard pointed out,  
>> downloading 150mb worth of Photoshop each time I want to use it  
>> isn't a good idea even at 802.11g speeds.
>
> And AJAX never envisions downloading the application. The app runs  
> on the server, the UI runs in the thin client (aka browser) and the  
> data is stored on the server and transferred as necessary.

To my understanding, the "app" is the javascript, which _is_  
downloaded and runs within the browser. The application logic is  
split as necessary between the client and the server. For example, in  
Google maps, the code to move the image panes is client-based. This  
can be verified by loading a map and then disconnecting from the  
internet. The map still drags (but no new images show up). Likewise  
the zoom.

A better example is writely, where much more interaction is  
available. Create a document and pull the network plug. Text is still  
editable, styleable, draggable, etc. The application code to support  
this is included in the page itself (about 30k) and several  
additional referenced modules, weighing in at 10k-30k each. I don't  
know how many modules there are, since writely isn't designed to be  
dissected. But much of the "app" is definitely on my computer, and  
it's at least >100k.

Parts of it, however, are not. Try to insert a table and writely  
displays a nice dialog pointing out that you're trying to navigate to  
a new page without having saved your work. The nice little Saving...  
indicator has been spinning forlornly pretty much since you yanked  
the network.

A better application would be able to save your work temporarily  
without having to hit the server. It would also download additional  
modules in the background whether you had an immediate need or not.  
This is the sort of intelligent download management that a Rev-based  
solution could easily provide, and a browser-based solution can't  
approach (yet).

>
> Photoshop may be one of the last apps to go this route.
>
> Or maybe someone will find a way to re-factor what Photoshop does  
> in such a way that it is even easier than it seems. (I don't know;  
> I'm not a Photoshop user.)

Since Photoshop's data files often top out at multiple megabytes, and  
you often need to see the whole image to make any change, this seems  
like it will wait until faster networks are available.

>
>> Neither is downloading 30 megabytes of Revolution stackfiles each  
>> time I want to edit them.
>>
> Again, the notion is not necessarily that these large chunks of  
> "stuff" are downloaded. The idea is to create a thin client that  
> accesses the information in a clean, elegant, smooth way for you  
> while letting everything "big" reside on the server.

I'm not talking about something like Google Maps, where the enormous  
data set can be easily parsed out as needed. I'm talking about a  
factory management application where there is a ton of program logic.  
Obviously this can be mitigated with separate downloadable modules,  
but it presents challenges.

>
>> For many applications, local storage is completely necessary until  
>> wireless access is 1. Everywhere 2. Really Fast.
>
> As long as we think of apps in traditional terms, yes.

I'm thinking of an app as a thing that allows me to manipulate my  
data. Obviously there are also apps that allow me to browse other  
people's data. That's what Google Maps is. We'll know that Rev is  
being challenged when there are successful Ajax apps that let me work  
with my own data. Writely doesn't qualify because it isn't successful  
yet.

>
>> I have all of my phone contacts stored on my computer. Some of  
>> them aren't on my cell phone (admittedly not many). If my phone  
>> contacts were stored on a server and I were someplace where I  
>> don't have access to the internet, I have no access to those  
>> contacts to look someone up and call them.
>
> I don't disagree that in the absence of Internet ubiquity there are  
> such needs. I simply argue that Internet ubiquity is not that far  
> off and that we'd do well to be prepared for its arrival.

When it comes to accessing my own data when I want, only ubiquity in  
its true sense (universal presence, i.e. out in the desert as well as  
here in the city) will do. That's further away.


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Nov 16 20:49:18 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:49:18 -0600
Subject: open with on windows does not work with rev. Heeeeeelp :-)
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511161703r68976d2fga91f702cd5b37bda@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BFA13DBE.2FE4C%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/16/05 7:03 PM, "Sarah Reichelt" <sarah.reichelt at gmail.com> wrote:

>> So I doubleclicked on the plugin (has a .rev extension) and windows asked me
>> what application I wanted to use. Since rev was not in the list, I clicked
>> browse to go to the rev 2.6 folder and clicked on revolution.exe.
>> 
>> I then clicked open and then OK. Oooooops. Windows XP did not recognise
>> revolution.exe and set all the files with a .rev extension to firefox. :-(
>> 
>> I tried going to the individual properties and diong it that way but still
>> no luck. Windows does not recognise revolution as an app to associate
>> fieltypes with.
>> 
> 
> I can't help, but I can confirm this except that in my case, Windows
> insists on using WinRAR to boot my .rev stacks. When I choose "Open
> with..." I get a list that does not include Revolution, so I choose
> Browse and go and find the Revolution.exe. After finding it, it still
> doesn't appear in the list, so I can't select it and I can't tell
> Windows to use it for all .rev files.
> 
> I assumed it was just me as I am not a Windows person, but maybe it is
> Rev. Should I try re-installing? I uninstalled WinRAR but that didn't
> help.

It's not Rev, it's WinRAR co-opting the '.rev' extension for its own use
(for "RAR Recovery Volume"). Apparently uninstalling WinRAR doesn't remove
the extension adjustment that was put into the Registry by the WinRAR
installer.

To fix this, you'll need to go into RegEdit, into HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT (HKCR)
and hunt down the ".rev" key. Clicking on it will show that the default
value for the .rev key is "WinRAR.REV", which in turn points to the
WinRAR.REV key in HKCR. Opening that, and expanding "shell", then "open",
then "command", you'll see that the default value is the path that points to
the WinRAR executable.

Sinc RunRev apparently doesn't install a key in HKCR for Revolution (or at
least, I can't find one on my PC), you'll have to do this:

1) Change the 'HKCR\.rev' default value to "Revolution" instead of
"WinRAR.REV".

2) Create a subkey under HKCR for 'Revolution', then a subkey under
'Revolution' for 'shell', then a subkey under 'shell' for 'open', then
finally a subkey under 'open' called 'command', and then set the value of
the 'HKCR\Revolution\shell\open\command' key to the path to Revolution, like
this:

   "C:\Program Files\Revolution 2.6.1\revolution.exe" "%1"

Then close the Registry. At this point, the .rev files will still show the
RAR icons, but 2x-clicking on them will launch Rev. If you log out and log
back in again (or reboot your PC), the icons will now display as Rev icons.

I hope someone at RunRev is going to call the guys at WinRAR and try to get
some kind of settlement over the .rev extension...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Nov 16 20:50:42 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:50:42 -0600
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <437BD42E.2010106@tweedly.net>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>	<E9963829-B5B2-47F2-B1F2-E4F9684D29F3@writeme.com>	<34071EAB-D5AB-4ACA-85E2-6AC2B0326B0B@danshafer.com>	<437BC64D.1000208@tweedly.net>	<A0CED478-6172-47CB-9528-A4042D72E3DD@danshafer.com>
	<437BD42E.2010106@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <437BE1F2.9090600@chipp.com>



Alex Tweedly wrote:

> I'm not concerned about Internet wires and signals - I happily use 
> Internet banking over public wifi - 

Wow! Can you tell me which Starbucks you'll be visiting soon? ;-)

I know of people who troll near public wifi spots just looking to grab 
usernames and passwords. I certainly would be _very careful_ about it.

-Chipp



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Nov 16 20:52:11 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:52:11 -0600
Subject: Downloading mystery
In-Reply-To: <a06110400bfa18dae2541@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <BFA13E6B.2FE4F%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/16/05 7:42 PM, "Bruce A. Pokras" <macstacks at earthlink.net> wrote:

> I am trying to script the downloading of European patents from the
> European Patent Office's server. They provide a sample URL to use for
> that purpose, but instead of the patent, I instantly get a zero size
> file. I've tried it with and without URLencode. However, scriptiing
> with revGoURL works fine with the same URL to open the patent in my
> browser. Any ideas? The script I am using goes like this:
> 
> on mouseup
> put 
> "https://publications.european-patent-office.org/PublicationServer/getpdf.jsp?
> cc=EP&pn=1502503&ki=A1"
> into theURL

You're using an 'https' secure socket... did you do this first:

  libURLSetSSLVerification false

??

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Nov 16 21:00:17 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 02:00:17 +0000
Subject: open with on windows does not work with rev. Heeeeeelp :-)
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511161703r68976d2fga91f702cd5b37bda@mail.gmail.com>
References: <gemini.ipypq500455cf01ms.rev@armbase.com>
	<f99b52860511161703r68976d2fga91f702cd5b37bda@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <437BE431.1010208@tweedly.net>

Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>>So I doubleclicked on the plugin (has a .rev extension) and windows asked me
>>what application I wanted to use. Since rev was not in the list, I clicked
>>browse to go to the rev 2.6 folder and clicked on revolution.exe.
>>
>>I then clicked open and then OK. Oooooops. Windows XP did not recognise
>>revolution.exe and set all the files with a .rev extension to firefox. :-(
>>
>>I tried going to the individual properties and diong it that way but still
>>no luck. Windows does not recognise revolution as an app to associate
>>fieltypes with.
>>
>>    
>>
>
>I can't help, but I can confirm this except that in my case, Windows
>insists on using WinRAR to boot my .rev stacks. When I choose "Open
>with..." I get a list that does not include Revolution, so I choose
>Browse and go and find the Revolution.exe. After finding it, it still
>doesn't appear in the list, so I can't select it and I can't tell
>Windows to use it for all .rev files.
>
>I assumed it was just me as I am not a Windows person, but maybe it is
>Rev. Should I try re-installing? I uninstalled WinRAR but that didn't
>help.
>  
>
Click on "My Computer"
 From the menu, select Tools / Folder Options ...
Select the Tab "File Types"
Scroll down to find REV    (*)
Click on "Change ..." button
Check the box "Always use the selected program to open this file type"
If Rev Engine isn't in the list, use Browse to find it and select it.
Click OK

That should set it up so that all .rev files open with it.

(*) If REV isn't yet in the list of known extension types, then you 
click on New and add the REV extension. You may choose to make it a 
"file type" by clicking on Advanced - this gives you a drop-down list of 
types. If Rev isn't in there (which it probably won't be), select 
"<New>" and click "OK".  That dialog closes, the new file extension type 
should be selected - and again there is an "Advanced" button available, 
which you can use to specify icon, description, actions to be taken, 
etc. as needed

I suspect if you don't do this - or don't do it right - you finish up 
with the symptoms described above, where .rev files are associated with 
another program such as Firefox. But I'm not willing to experiment in 
case I mess up my system and can't put it back again.

Note that Rev Engine will still not (or may still not) appear in the 
list of programs that appear when you do "Open with ..." - but hopefully 
you won't need that after you've done the above steps.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net

-------------- next part --------------
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.2/170 - Release Date: 15/11/2005

From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Nov 16 21:04:37 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 20:04:37 -0600
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <437BD25E.7090301@tweedly.net>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>	<9CF650B5-399A-405D-A0FA-030DD663D897@inspiredlogic.com>	<E4C895C1-0F48-42EA-9420-23E90CA936BB@danshafer.com>	<C925C7DA-3C93-48B5-B88D-EDE65CAE1294@inspiredlogic.com>
	<437BD25E.7090301@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <437BE535.6000601@chipp.com>

Alex Tweedly wrote:

> This would apply (pretty well) to the case of applications, where the 
> Web-Photoshop would be (presumably) a set of  modularized functions 
> which could be cached. I suspect that most users never need more than 
> about 50% of the features in Photoshop (maybe that should be 10% :-), so 
> simple modularization + caching would reduce the 150Mb problem to 
> infrequent downloads of updated modules and the occasional pause when I 
> access a new feature for the first time.

Alex, assuming you're able to cut the size in half, you're still 
downloading 75 Mb!. Even if it was cached, you still would need to 
download the 40Mb file. Ouch.

> This might in fact lead to even more homogeneity of applications - when 
> you use an Internet cafe, you can either use Web-Photoshop which is 
> cached (either on the local machine or on a nearby WebCache) or 
> Web-PicturePaint, the new innovative competitor which is not typically 
> not cached, and therefore performs relatively poorly due to download 
> delays.

Couple of points. I now have 2 work residences..one in rural Texas and 
the other in the mountains in New Mexico. Neither one has realiable 
broadband. The first has a radio wireless system which maxes out at 50 
kbytes/sec while the other has DirecWav, a satellite solution with major 
latency issues. Both are the best I can get w/out having to spring for 
my own private (and very $$$) T1.

I couldn't imagine having to wait for huge downloads (radio wireless) or 
lengthy round trips for XML display info (satellite). In New Mexico, I 
have on occasion taken my wireless laptop into town and sat in a cafe to 
work, but I have to say, trying to program in such an environment is 
very difficult for me. I guess it's another way of saying "Why would I 
ever want to use Web-Photoshop in an Internet Cafe?" I suppose it's a 
cool idea for some, but as far as mainstream is concerned... I kinda 
doubt it.

I think Dan's _Zero Pound_ computer idea is his ideal setup. I'm not so 
sure it's *ideal* for everyone. I still think the idea is far far off 
timewise. But, chatting w/Dan today on the phone, he did have a great 
point: "Just roll up your sleeves, dive-in and create an AJAX app" to 
figure out where the 'gotchas' are.

-Chipp



From lewisbruce at rogers.com  Wed Nov 16 21:05:01 2005
From: lewisbruce at rogers.com (Bruce Lewis)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 21:05:01 -0500
Subject: Light text
Message-ID: <p06230901bfa190d4d3ae@[69.195.12.71]>

I just installed Max OS X Tiger 10.4.3 and Revolution 2.6.1 on two
different machines. One is a PowerBook and the other a power Mac, both with
LCD displays.

There seems to be a problem with the legibility of text in Revolution. The
problem occurs throughout the program, including in the documentation. The
problem occurs on both machines.

It is worst in the fields in my stacks, which are mostly Times 14 point. It
is not the system, since other programs are fine. I paste some text from a
Revolution fld into MS Word and compare the two side by side. MS Word is
fine and Revolution is barely legible.

The difference is probably worse if I set smoothing to strong in the system
preferences, but it is pronounced at any level.

Any thoughts? Anyone else using a similar setup?
-- 
Bruce Lewis
Lewis & Collyer
160 John Street, Suite 401
Toronto, Ontario
Canada  M5V 2E5
(416) 598-4357
FAX (416) 598-1067
bruce at lewiscoll.com
nancy at lewiscoll.com
sandy at lewiscoll.com
joan at lewiscoll.com
eva at lewiscoll.com


From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Wed Nov 16 21:05:46 2005
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 21:05:46 -0500
Subject: Database Connectivity Problems
Message-ID: <b9d2f6acab2ede980d3c95daf2b6df25@fjrhome.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I'm back... finally!

Sorry if this is a repeat, but I can't seem to find it easily in the 
archives.  I'm returning to the world of Revolution with the latest 
2.6.1.

I'm trying to use the database APIs to connect to a PostgreSQL database 
on the local machine and getting messages like:


could not connect to server: Can't assign requested address
	Is the server running on host "localhost" and accepting
	TCP/IP connections on port false?


Yes, port "false" -- that's when I don't specify a port!  when I do 
specify the port, I get this:

could not translate host name "localhost:5432" to
address: No address associated with nodename


I am getting this behavior under both OS X and Windows.


Has anyone else seen this, or have any ideas?


Thank you!


- -----------------------------------------------------------
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <fde101 at fjrhome.net>

$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten 
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
everlasting life.
$ 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFDe+V77aqtWrR9cZoRAuCGAJsEie0Bi730gZj2a6bROO2KvFP5QgCfc/Kg
RYPN8HXxEVpbg+Hzk/sTvtM=
=iCTy
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



___________________________________________________________
$0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
Signup at www.doteasy.com



From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Nov 16 21:10:52 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 02:10:52 +0000
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <437BE1F2.9090600@chipp.com>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>	<E9963829-B5B2-47F2-B1F2-E4F9684D29F3@writeme.com>	<34071EAB-D5AB-4ACA-85E2-6AC2B0326B0B@danshafer.com>	<437BC64D.1000208@tweedly.net>	<A0CED478-6172-47CB-9528-A4042D72E3DD@danshafer.com>	<437BD42E.2010106@tweedly.net>
	<437BE1F2.9090600@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <437BE6AC.50704@tweedly.net>

Chipp Walters wrote:

>> I'm not concerned about Internet wires and signals - I happily use 
>> Internet banking over public wifi - 
>
> Wow! Can you tell me which Starbucks you'll be visiting soon? ;-)

None - but that's for other reasons :-)

> I know of people who troll near public wifi spots just looking to grab 
> usernames and passwords. I certainly would be _very careful_ about it.

The whole point is that in a ssl-connected context, nothing, including 
usernames and passwords is sent in the clear; so they can listen in on 
my wifi connection if they want - it's already encrypted end-to-end. 

The data is only vulnerable between the time it leaves my 
fingers/keyboard until it gets encrypted - hence my unwillingness to use 
an "unsafe" computer. For similar reasons I wouldn't use a 
wireless-connected keyboard, or a Bluetooth-connected keyboard (not 
without investigating their encryption level).

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.2/170 - Release Date: 15/11/2005



From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Nov 16 21:11:43 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 20:11:43 -0600
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <F2E7658C-2F7E-41D8-B9EF-DCA55FDABF33@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>	<9CF650B5-399A-405D-A0FA-030DD663D897@inspiredlogic.com>	<E4C895C1-0F48-42EA-9420-23E90CA936BB@danshafer.com>	<C925C7DA-3C93-48B5-B88D-EDE65CAE1294@inspiredlogic.com>	<9F90933C-5DA6-48AC-959D-16AD5B9AB4CF@danshafer.com>
	<F2E7658C-2F7E-41D8-B9EF-DCA55FDABF33@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <437BE6DF.1070002@chipp.com>

Geoff Canyon wrote:
> I'm thinking of an app as a thing that allows me to manipulate my  data.
> Obviously there are also apps that allow me to browse other  people's 
> data. That's what Google Maps is. We'll know that Rev is  being 
> challenged when there are successful Ajax apps that let me work  with my 
> own data. Writely doesn't qualify because it isn't successful  yet.

Good point. I might add the condition of being 'successful' would be 
tied to generating revenue. IMO, getting a million hits on your free web 
app doesn't count.

I'm not convinced being the first one on the block with an AJAX enabled 
office app (or others) is all that significant. I think timing is 
critical, and not being on the bleeding edge is more important.

See what happens when you're first:
Visicalc
Wordstar
PARC
Kaypro
Mosaic browser
I can't even remember the first search engine.




From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Nov 16 21:19:20 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 02:19:20 +0000
Subject: open with on windows does not work with rev. Heeeeeelp :-)
In-Reply-To: <BFA13DBE.2FE4C%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BFA13DBE.2FE4C%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <437BE8A8.6030603@tweedly.net>

Ken Ray wrote:

>On 11/16/05 7:03 PM, "Sarah Reichelt" <sarah.reichelt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>>So I doubleclicked on the plugin (has a .rev extension) and windows asked me
>>>what application I wanted to use. Since rev was not in the list, I clicked
>>>browse to go to the rev 2.6 folder and clicked on revolution.exe.
>>>
>>>I then clicked open and then OK. Oooooops. Windows XP did not recognise
>>>revolution.exe and set all the files with a .rev extension to firefox. :-(
>>>
>>>I tried going to the individual properties and diong it that way but still
>>>no luck. Windows does not recognise revolution as an app to associate
>>>fieltypes with.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>I can't help, but I can confirm this except that in my case, Windows
>>insists on using WinRAR to boot my .rev stacks. When I choose "Open
>>with..." I get a list that does not include Revolution, so I choose
>>Browse and go and find the Revolution.exe. After finding it, it still
>>doesn't appear in the list, so I can't select it and I can't tell
>>Windows to use it for all .rev files.
>>
>>I assumed it was just me as I am not a Windows person, but maybe it is
>>Rev. Should I try re-installing? I uninstalled WinRAR but that didn't
>>help.
>>    
>>
>
>It's not Rev, it's WinRAR co-opting the '.rev' extension for its own use
>(for "RAR Recovery Volume"). Apparently uninstalling WinRAR doesn't remove
>the extension adjustment that was put into the Registry by the WinRAR
>installer.
>
>To fix this, you'll need to go into RegEdit, into HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT (HKCR)
>and hunt down the ".rev" key. Clicking on it will show that the default
>value for the .rev key is "WinRAR.REV", which in turn points to the
>WinRAR.REV key in HKCR. Opening that, and expanding "shell", then "open",
>then "command", you'll see that the default value is the path that points to
>the WinRAR executable.
>
>  
>
You should be able to do this without editing the registry directly.

menu Tools / Folder Options ....  / File Types
Select the extension "rev"
If there is an "Advanced" button, click it and make adjustments
If there isn't, there should instead be a "Restore" button, click it - 
hopefully you then get an Advanced button and can make adjustments. If 
not, delete the extension from the list of known extensions, and re-add 
it properly.
If there isn't a "Restore" button - just delete the rev extension, and 
add it again.

(I think the most likely case if WinRAR has taken over the extension is 
that you'll need to "Restore", but will then get your Advanced button 
back - but it's been a while since I had to do this, and I may be 
misremembering).

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net

-------------- next part --------------
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.2/170 - Release Date: 15/11/2005

From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Wed Nov 16 21:29:46 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 21:29:46 -0500
Subject: Cmd-A doesn't work from Keyboard in Standalone
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511161724ma2dd21doa7e06ed588a742a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65BD39E1-983A-4953-BE9E-5F557CCFF8DC@hindu.org>
	<f99b52860511161724ma2dd21doa7e06ed588a742a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2B703CEE-003A-49C7-B6D2-280BF696780F@conncoll.edu>


On Nov 16, 2005, at 8:24 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>> I have a pulldown menu button on  group shared across all cards in a
>> stack... the standard "Edit".
>>
>> Select All/A
>>
>> the cmd symbol for the Mac appears as expected to the right of the
>> menu item in the pull down.
>>
>> case "Select All"
>> if the selected fld is not empty then select text of the selected  
>> field.
>> break
>>
>> If I run this stack from m stand alone player, the item to select all
>> text in a field only works if the user mouses up to the button and
>> pulls it down and chooses that item. So the script it OK... But, if
>> the user puts his cursor into a fld and clicks cmd-A from the
>> keyboard it doesn't work??
>>
>
> If the script is OK, then it has to be a key problem. Do you have a
> commandKeyDown handler that could be blocking the command key? Or a
> keyDown, keyUp, rawKeyDown or rawKeyUp handler that could be blocking
> the 'A'?

I'm curious about this too, because I have found that *blocking* cmd- 
A (= select all) in a field is very hard, meaning I haven't found a  
way to do it. (So I had the opposite problem from the o.p.) Oddly  
enough, cmd-C (= copy) seems also to work by itself, but I found I  
had to write code to implement cmd-V (= paste). Puzzling.

Charles Hartman




From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Nov 16 21:43:17 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 02:43:17 +0000
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <437BE535.6000601@chipp.com>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>	<9CF650B5-399A-405D-A0FA-030DD663D897@inspiredlogic.com>	<E4C895C1-0F48-42EA-9420-23E90CA936BB@danshafer.com>	<C925C7DA-3C93-48B5-B88D-EDE65CAE1294@inspiredlogic.com>	<437BD25E.7090301@tweedly.net>
	<437BE535.6000601@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <437BEE45.4090601@tweedly.net>

Chipp Walters wrote:

> Alex Tweedly wrote:
>
>> This would apply (pretty well) to the case of applications, where the 
>> Web-Photoshop would be (presumably) a set of  modularized functions 
>> which could be cached. I suspect that most users never need more than 
>> about 50% of the features in Photoshop (maybe that should be 10% :-), 
>> so simple modularization + caching would reduce the 150Mb problem to 
>> infrequent downloads of updated modules and the occasional pause when 
>> I access a new feature for the first time.
>
>
> Alex, assuming you're able to cut the size in half, you're still 
> downloading 75 Mb!. 

Yeah - but that was ignoring the additional saving from the fact that 
much of the app should reside on the server. Adding that in (and using 
my 10% figure rather than 50% for the typical user's ability to remember 
how to use all the features of Photoshop), I could probably argue that 
down to 5Mb. Still a lot, but bearable given good broadband access. In 
typical daily use, that would all be cached until the app was updated.

> Even if it was cached, you still would need to download the 40Mb file. 
> Ouch.

No. The data resides on the server, only enough is downloaded to 
display. Even that's enough to worry about, but it's far less than 40Mb 
and it can be incrementally downloaded after initial display (e.g. 
progressive scan jpeg of the on-screen image, calculated on the fly at 
the server end).

I don't believe that a "Web-Photoshop" would need to satisfy the digital 
photography professional (mapping professionals aren't using Google Maps 
!). I think to get a commercially successful web-based photography 
editing app you need to satisfy 75% of the population - who start out 
with 3-6M-pixel photos compressed down to 1/2Mb JPEGs, not the pros 
using 32Mb RAW images,.

>
>> This might in fact lead to even more homogeneity of applications - 
>> when you use an Internet cafe, you can either use Web-Photoshop which 
>> is cached (either on the local machine or on a nearby WebCache) or 
>> Web-PicturePaint, the new innovative competitor which is not 
>> typically not cached, and therefore performs relatively poorly due to 
>> download delays.
>
>
> Couple of points. I now have 2 work residences..one in rural Texas and 
> the other in the mountains in New Mexico. Neither one has realiable 
> broadband. The first has a radio wireless system which maxes out at 50 
> kbytes/sec while the other has DirecWav, a satellite solution with 
> major latency issues. Both are the best I can get w/out having to 
> spring for my own private (and very $$$) T1.
>
> I couldn't imagine having to wait for huge downloads (radio wireless) 
> or lengthy round trips for XML display info (satellite). In New 
> Mexico, I have on occasion taken my wireless laptop into town and sat 
> in a cafe to work, but I have to say, trying to program in such an 
> environment is very difficult for me. I guess it's another way of 
> saying "Why would I ever want to use Web-Photoshop in an Internet 
> Cafe?" I suppose it's a cool idea for some, but as far as mainstream 
> is concerned... I kinda doubt it.
>
I wouldn't call Google Maps or Google Earth "commercially successful" 
yet, but they're close. They won't work for you with your connectivity - 
but if I came up with an app that 90% of the population used, I'd be 
content with that :-)

> I think Dan's _Zero Pound_ computer idea is his ideal setup. I'm not 
> so sure it's *ideal* for everyone. I still think the idea is far far 
> off timewise. But, chatting w/Dan today on the phone, he did have a 
> great point: "Just roll up your sleeves, dive-in and create an AJAX 
> app" to figure out where the 'gotchas' are.

Probably the right thing to do ....  though it sounds a little bit like

"dive-in and create a desktop app to figure out where the 'gotchas' are".

"AJAX app" covers as broad a spectrum as "desktop app" - so the gotchas 
will vary between different parts of that spectrum.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.2/170 - Release Date: 15/11/2005



From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Wed Nov 16 21:43:18 2005
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 21:43:18 -0500
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <437BE6DF.1070002@chipp.com>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>	<9CF650B5-399A-405D-A0FA-030DD663D897@inspiredlogic.com>	<E4C895C1-0F48-42EA-9420-23E90CA936BB@danshafer.com>	<C925C7DA-3C93-48B5-B88D-EDE65CAE1294@inspiredlogic.com>	<9F90933C-5DA6-48AC-959D-16AD5B9AB4CF@danshafer.com>
	<F2E7658C-2F7E-41D8-B9EF-DCA55FDABF33@inspiredlogic.com>
	<437BE6DF.1070002@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <b717d0d21201f324ce099258145c99fe@fjrhome.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Depending on your definition, it might be Archie:

http://www.let.leidenuniv.nl/history/ivh/chap4.htm


The first "web" search engine seems to be a difficult one to track 
down, however...



On Nov 16, 2005, at 9:11 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> I can't even remember the first search engine.


- -----------------------------------------------------------
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <fde101 at fjrhome.net>

$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten 
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
everlasting life.
$
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFDe+5G7aqtWrR9cZoRAvkXAJ9Hvnlei8BrERLY7sDwZZbuJVFQkgCdFp2b
BJvWw/we74MsTQDSdmNZGfw=
=1MSV
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



___________________________________________________________
$0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
Signup at www.doteasy.com



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Wed Nov 16 22:10:14 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 22:10:14 -0500
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <437BEE45.4090601@tweedly.net>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>	<9CF650B5-399A-405D-A0FA-030DD663D897@inspiredlogic.com>	<E4C895C1-0F48-42EA-9420-23E90CA936BB@danshafer.com>	<C925C7DA-3C93-48B5-B88D-EDE65CAE1294@inspiredlogic.com>	<437BD25E.7090301@tweedly.net>
	<437BE535.6000601@chipp.com> <437BEE45.4090601@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <0C79A086-095F-43F9-9151-431AF4B09967@conncoll.edu>


On Nov 16, 2005, at 9:43 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> I don't believe that a "Web-Photoshop" would need to satisfy the  
> digital photography professional (mapping professionals aren't  
> using Google Maps !). I think to get a commercially successful web- 
> based photography editing app you need to satisfy 75% of the  
> population - who start out with 3-6M-pixel photos compressed down  
> to 1/2Mb JPEGs, not the pros using 32Mb RAW images,.


Is one implication that, in the brave new web-app world, professional- 
grade applications -- because nobody but professionals will be using  
them -- will get really, really expensive? Yes, many are now; but  
many aren't. Jarhead was edited, as I understand it, by whatshisname  
the great film editor using Final Cut Pro. Pro-level audio software,  
though not cheap, is within reach for an amateur. Will that stop  
being true? Don't like it.

Charles Hartman



From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov 16 22:36:54 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:36:54 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <437BD42E.2010106@tweedly.net>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>	<E9963829-B5B2-47F2-B1F2-E4F9684D29F3@writeme.com>	<34071EAB-D5AB-4ACA-85E2-6AC2B0326B0B@danshafer.com>	<437BC64D.1000208@tweedly.net>
	<A0CED478-6172-47CB-9528-A4042D72E3DD@danshafer.com>
	<437BD42E.2010106@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <BD48B698-46DC-48A0-BFDB-A0580E12735E@danshafer.com>

Lots of my colleagues tell me I'm insufficiently paranoid.

Maybe I am.

Dan

On Nov 16, 2005, at 4:51 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> I'm not concerned about Internet wires and signals - I happily use  
> Internet banking over public wifi - it's getting the data from the  
> keyboard to the wire, or account info from the wire to the screen  
> that worry me.



From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov 16 22:39:15 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:39:15 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <F2E7658C-2F7E-41D8-B9EF-DCA55FDABF33@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>
	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>
	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>
	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>
	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>
	<9CF650B5-399A-405D-A0FA-030DD663D897@inspiredlogic.com>
	<E4C895C1-0F48-42EA-9420-23E90CA936BB@danshafer.com>
	<C925C7DA-3C93-48B5-B88D-EDE65CAE1294@inspiredlogic.com>
	<9F90933C-5DA6-48AC-959D-16AD5B9AB4CF@danshafer.com>
	<F2E7658C-2F7E-41D8-B9EF-DCA55FDABF33@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <E978710A-BB11-45B5-AA42-E6A42AB78815@danshafer.com>

Geoff....

On Nov 16, 2005, at 5:43 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:

> A better application would be able to save your work temporarily  
> without having to hit the server. It would also download additional  
> modules in the background whether you had an immediate need or not.  
> This is the sort of intelligent download management that a Rev- 
> based solution could easily provide, and a browser-based solution  
> can't approach (yet).

Agreed. Again, I think this is a problem that's not that difficult to  
solve, but then, everything is easy to teh guy who doesn't have to  
write the code. ;-)




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov 16 22:44:44 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:44:44 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <b717d0d21201f324ce099258145c99fe@fjrhome.net>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>	<9CF650B5-399A-405D-A0FA-030DD663D897@inspiredlogic.com>	<E4C895C1-0F48-42EA-9420-23E90CA936BB@danshafer.com>	<C925C7DA-3C93-48B5-B88D-EDE65CAE1294@inspiredlogic.com>	<9F90933C-5DA6-48AC-959D-16AD5B9AB4CF@danshafer.com>
	<F2E7658C-2F7E-41D8-B9EF-DCA55FDABF33@inspiredlogic.com>
	<437BE6DF.1070002@chipp.com>
	<b717d0d21201f324ce099258145c99fe@fjrhome.net>
Message-ID: <DE1C48F6-E586-413A-9AF1-D26A6E88F3BD@danshafer.com>

Not sure, either, but I suspect it's Alta Vista.

Dan

On Nov 16, 2005, at 6:43 PM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:

> The first "web" search engine seems to be a difficult one to track  
> down, however...



From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov 16 22:46:16 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:46:16 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <0C79A086-095F-43F9-9151-431AF4B09967@conncoll.edu>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>	<9CF650B5-399A-405D-A0FA-030DD663D897@inspiredlogic.com>	<E4C895C1-0F48-42EA-9420-23E90CA936BB@danshafer.com>	<C925C7DA-3C93-48B5-B88D-EDE65CAE1294@inspiredlogic.com>	<437BD25E.7090301@tweedly.net>
	<437BE535.6000601@chipp.com> <437BEE45.4090601@tweedly.net>
	<0C79A086-095F-43F9-9151-431AF4B09967@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <AE60F684-2C4B-403C-A85D-9BD50BE214BF@danshafer.com>

I think not.

Pricing models will change. We'll see pay-per-use, pay-per-month, pay- 
per-file, pay-per-K and other similar models. When it's not necessary  
for the manufacturer to package, distribute, sell, track, upgrade and  
otherwise deal with thousands and thousands of copies of the software  
out there -- and when piracy becomes all but extinct thanks to the  
new models -- software prices will dive while profit margins remain  
high.

At least that's how I see it.


On Nov 16, 2005, at 7:10 PM, Charles Hartman wrote:

>
> On Nov 16, 2005, at 9:43 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:
>
>> I don't believe that a "Web-Photoshop" would need to satisfy the  
>> digital photography professional (mapping professionals aren't  
>> using Google Maps !). I think to get a commercially successful web- 
>> based photography editing app you need to satisfy 75% of the  
>> population - who start out with 3-6M-pixel photos compressed down  
>> to 1/2Mb JPEGs, not the pros using 32Mb RAW images,.
>
>
> Is one implication that, in the brave new web-app world,  
> professional-grade applications -- because nobody but professionals  
> will be using them -- will get really, really expensive? Yes, many  
> are now; but many aren't. Jarhead was edited, as I understand it,  
> by whatshisname the great film editor using Final Cut Pro. Pro- 
> level audio software, though not cheap, is within reach for an  
> amateur. Will that stop being true? Don't like it.
>
> Charles Hartman
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. 
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Dan Shafer
Technology Visionary - Technology Assessment - Documentation
"Looking at technology from every angle"
http://www.eclecticity.com




From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Wed Nov 16 23:49:13 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 20:49:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <3B9FD04A-A006-4EAB-A85D-DCB747729F1E@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511162048290.7402-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

I don't think it helped the guy who's digit got cut off to steal his Benz,
though...

Judy

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005, Geoff Canyon wrote:

> Under the heading of "I kid you not:" I once read on a web site
> discussing biometric identification the following words (roughly).
>
>       Of course, you may be thinking, "What happens if someone cuts
> out my eye?"
>       The answer to that is simple: our biometric devices are
> designed to detect
>       the pulse in the blood vessels as it scans them. If there is no
> pulse, the
>       scan will fail even if the pattern matches.
>
> It makes sense after you get past the ewww part.



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Wed Nov 16 23:55:28 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 20:55:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511162048290.7402-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511162055050.7402-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

RATS!!!

Make that "whose"

:-/

Judy

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005, Judy Perry wrote:

> I don't think it helped the guy who's digit got cut off to steal his Benz,
> though...



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Nov 17 00:06:10 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 06:06:10 +0100
Subject: ANN: XOSMediaLib.rev
Message-ID: <20051117042714.DB0B58250EA@mail.runrev.com>

Hello Revvers 

Here's another release of this powerful media organizer...

In case you haven't seen it, screenshot, description and download are here:
<http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=193>

This release fixes:
- options not showing correctly (opaque backgrounds do not behave the same
in w2k and xp/osx)
- Sorting images in the images list would loose your selection
- A rogue substack "untitled 2" that could cause revcrashes if you had
another "untitled 2" stack opened.
- Some lost scripts in the wrong buttons were also removed.

This is still a work in progress but it's the most complete rev media (icons
and patterns) management solution out there.

Comments and votes (for the article/download) are welcome...

Cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com



From katir at hindu.org  Thu Nov 17 00:27:52 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:27:52 -1000
Subject: Cmd-A doesn't work from Keyboard in Standalone
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511161724ma2dd21doa7e06ed588a742a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65BD39E1-983A-4953-BE9E-5F557CCFF8DC@hindu.org>
	<f99b52860511161724ma2dd21doa7e06ed588a742a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6A1C4696-C25E-437C-9617-785AD36163D0@hindu.org>

I wish... (I found a blocking handler) but no... there is nothing in  
the stack to block the key down msg. I'm also getting this in a  
nother button with "Save/S"

Case "Save"
   save this stack
    break


which appears fine in the menu, works fine from the menu, but doing  
cmd-S from the keyboard does nothing... which, is scary because users  
are thinking the app is being saved, but it's not...

I could send the stack for testing if that would help, would that be  
OK? (who would like to test it for me?)

Sivakatirswami



On Nov 16, 2005, at 3:24 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>> Select All/A
>>
>> the cmd symbol for the Mac appears as expected to the right of the
>> menu item in the pull down.
>>
>> case "Select All"
>> if the selected fld is not empty then select text of the selected  
>> field.
>> break
>>
>> If I run this stack from m stand alone player, the item to select all
>> text in a field only works if the user mouses up to the button and
>> pulls it down and chooses that item. So the script it OK... But, if
>> the user puts his cursor into a fld and clicks cmd-A from the
>> keyboard it doesn't work??
>>
>>
>
> If the script is OK, then it has to be a key problem. Do you have a
> commandKeyDown handler that could be blocking the command key? Or a
> keyDown, keyUp, rawKeyDown or rawKeyUp handler that could be blocking
> the 'A'?
>
> Sarah
> _______



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 00:29:53 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:29:53 +1000
Subject: Light text
In-Reply-To: <p06230901bfa190d4d3ae@69.195.12.71>
References: <p06230901bfa190d4d3ae@69.195.12.71>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511162129o7ca6d4ffq4ca553de878db060@mail.gmail.com>

> I just installed Max OS X Tiger 10.4.3 and Revolution 2.6.1 on two
> different machines. One is a PowerBook and the other a power Mac, both with
> LCD displays.
>
> There seems to be a problem with the legibility of text in Revolution. The
> problem occurs throughout the program, including in the documentation. The
> problem occurs on both machines.
>
> It is worst in the fields in my stacks, which are mostly Times 14 point. It
> is not the system, since other programs are fine. I paste some text from a
> Revolution fld into MS Word and compare the two side by side. MS Word is
> fine and Revolution is barely legible.
>

I had a similar problem with a fresh install of Tiger on a new
computer. It had the fonts my app was using but they weren't
officially installed, so my app looked terrible. I wasn't running any
other apps, so I don't know if it was just Rev or whether it affected
all apps.

If you go to /Library/Fonts (that's the Library folder in root
directory of the hard disk, not the one in your user folder) you will
see a whole load of font files. Double-click on the Times or TImes New
Roman or whichever font you are using. You may see a sample of this
font appear in a small window with a message at the bottom saying
"(not installed)" and an Install button. Click "Install" then log out
& log in again. This may fix the problem.

If it persists, it may be a permissions problem in the font file
itself. You may need to set the permissions for the font to Read/Write
for all users.

HTH,
Sarah


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 00:37:13 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:37:13 +1000
Subject: Database Connectivity Problems
In-Reply-To: <b9d2f6acab2ede980d3c95daf2b6df25@fjrhome.net>
References: <b9d2f6acab2ede980d3c95daf2b6df25@fjrhome.net>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511162137y63a22fa1xe2dc7d3b1ee52b93@mail.gmail.com>

> I'm back... finally!
Hi Frank, good to hear from you again.

> I'm trying to use the database APIs to connect to a PostgreSQL database
> on the local machine and getting messages like:
>
>
> could not connect to server: Can't assign requested address
>         Is the server running on host "localhost" and accepting
>         TCP/IP connections on port false?
>
>
> Yes, port "false" -- that's when I don't specify a port!  when I do
> specify the port, I get this:
>
> could not translate host name "localhost:5432" to
> address: No address associated with nodename
>

Could you send the actual script you are using to make the connection?
If you are using variables to specify the username, password &
database name, can you get Rev to "put" the complete command before
executing it, so you can be sure it is really working. Or perhaps
hard-wire the data for test purposes to see if you can connect that
way.

Cheers,
Sarah


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 00:38:09 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:38:09 +1000
Subject: Cmd-A doesn't work from Keyboard in Standalone
In-Reply-To: <6A1C4696-C25E-437C-9617-785AD36163D0@hindu.org>
References: <65BD39E1-983A-4953-BE9E-5F557CCFF8DC@hindu.org>
	<f99b52860511161724ma2dd21doa7e06ed588a742a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<6A1C4696-C25E-437C-9617-785AD36163D0@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511162138i54563acftf00c0b681197631@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/17/05, Sivakatirswami <katir at hindu.org> wrote:
> I wish... (I found a blocking handler) but no... there is nothing in
> the stack to block the key down msg. I'm also getting this in a
> nother button with "Save/S"
>
> Case "Save"
>    save this stack
>     break
>
>
> which appears fine in the menu, works fine from the menu, but doing
> cmd-S from the keyboard does nothing... which, is scary because users
> are thinking the app is being saved, but it's not...
>
> I could send the stack for testing if that would help, would that be
> OK? (who would like to test it for me?)
>

I'll give it a go, if you like to send it along.

Sarah


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Thu Nov 17 03:11:03 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 09:11:03 +0100
Subject: open with on windows does not work with rev. Heeeeeelp :-)
In-Reply-To: <BFA13DBE.2FE4C%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <OFE08D2878.5EF72F2D-ONC12570BC.002B3C4B-C12570BC.002CF80E@deutsche-boerse.com>

it's actually much simpler than what's been described...

open a command box and type the following

assoc .rev ! this outputs the current association

  ASSOC .rev=RunRevFile
  FTYPE RunRevFile=D:\Metacard\mc.exe "%1"

assoc .rev=RunRevFile
assoc mc=RunRevFile
assoc hc=RunRevFile

double click a rev file and hop it works!

The real issue though is that the installer doesn't create those 
associations when you install rev!
So reinstalling rev wont fix the problem.

And my pet peeve, is that if rev is open, double clicking a rev icon 
launches another instance
of rev.

To be safe, i would avoid this association on windows due to the potential 
danger of
overwriting the same file from 2 different applications (this has been 
discussed before)...

just my 2 cents on safety...

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo



-----------------------------------------
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recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
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IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
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not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
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END OF DISCLAIMER


From revolution at derbrill.de  Thu Nov 17 03:14:08 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 09:14:08 +0100
Subject: mTropolis Refugees
In-Reply-To: <20051117015534.78198825143@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <2051C2D8-5742-11DA-B225-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Hi Janus,

> Other than the arcade engine, which seems to be a 3rd
> party product, can Revolution handle multiple moving
> objects or collision detection?

ArcadeEngine is completely written in Transcript, so if you roll your 
own scripts the answer is yes, it is possible. The built in move 
command and collision tests are a bit limited though, so it takes  bit 
of experience with Transcript and it?s characteristics, a certain 
familiarity with collision detection algorithms and a bit (actually 
quite a bit) math to roll your own handlers and functions for 
movement/collision detection with satisfactory results. I recommend you 
look at all of Scott Rossis stacks for some inspiration on how to 
create nice animations, at Jim Hurleys 9ball stack for inspiration on 
collision detection and if 3rd party products are an option, download 
the ArcadeEngine trial and play with it for a while.

All the best,

Malte


---
ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes
http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine
http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum 


From john at debraneys.com  Thu Nov 17 03:27:12 2005
From: john at debraneys.com (John Tregea)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 19:27:12 +1100
Subject: mTropolis Refugees
In-Reply-To: <BFA110A2.25165%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <200511170827.jAH8Rhhf018365@mail27.syd.optusnet.com.au>

I used mTropolis 2.0 for an interactive CD/ROM that was used to promote
Singapore. We had QTVR's of Raffles hotel and other famous landmarks,
quicktime video, stills, maps and most innovatively at that time live links
to the updatable information on the web for hotel bookings and theme park
availability etc. Oh, those were the days.

What a fantastic product it was, and I still say "Damn Adobe and Quark" for
killing it between them...

Cheers 

John T

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Scott Rossi
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 11:37 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: mTropolis Refugees

Recently,Janus Jakaterina wrote:

> Are there many mTropolis folk now residing in the land of Revolution?

Not a refugee, more like a second cousin's nephew, twice removed, who
visited once in a while...

 
> If so, how is Revolution for behaviors, aliasing, and messaging?

Again, I'm no mTropolis expert (mTropolis was a long time ago by the way),
but you can give objects their own behaviors that allow them to live, act
and die on their own using something like "send xyz to me..."  Messages can
also be passed from objects to the "environment" of the card and stack,
either using the previous "send..." command or automatically via Rev's
message hierarchy (see here for a good explanation of Rev's message path:
<http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/revolution_message_path.html>).

The issue you have to watch out for is having dozens of things happening on
screen at once; Rev is not really optimized for this kind of thing across
the board (low end graphics cards and/or processors can affect performance),
but with careful design (and lots of testing) you can get away with some
decent animation/movement.

 
> Other than the arcade engine, which seems to be a 3rd party product, 
> can Revolution handle multiple moving objects or collision detection?

Yes to both.  You can search the list archives for more info on this, and
the following was posted just the other day:

Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:01:57 -0800
Subject: Re: maze wall algorithm
From: Scott Rossi
To: How to use Revolution

Recently,N Cueto wrote:

> If given a maze in the form of a
> grid
> ...
> then, what would be the
> ideal scripting for limiting
> "movement" between only
> contiguous squares that are
> not separated by a wall

The way I've done something like this in the past is to use physical
boundaries, in other words, using the intersect and/or within functions to
prevent/constrain movement in certain directions.  From your example, it's
not clear if you *need* to limit movement based on numerical progression,
but this could be handled easily via the loc property, as you guessed.

You could use rectangle "wall" graphics combined with the above functions to
allow for moveable obstacles, and test for collision with the graphics on
the current maze/screen.  Alternatively, if you were able to use a single
image as your maze, this would allow for testing intersect/within results
within a single object -- the image.  This is the benefit of using images
for collision detection in that you can test for non-transparent pixel
collisions, as opposed to using graphics which only allow for rects.  I
don't know if images would work in your situation but that was the technique
I used and it's reliable.

Let me know if this makes sense (or if not, maybe I can dig up an old demo).

Of course, one must also keep in mind Malte Brill's Arcade Engine...

[end post]


Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
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From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Nov 17 03:54:24 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 08:54:24 +0000
Subject: open with on windows does not work with rev. Heeeeeelp :-)
In-Reply-To: <OFE08D2878.5EF72F2D-ONC12570BC.002B3C4B-C12570BC.002CF80E@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OFE08D2878.5EF72F2D-ONC12570BC.002B3C4B-C12570BC.002CF80E@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <437C4540.1050007@tweedly.net>

xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:

>it's actually much simpler than what's been described...
>
>open a command box and type the following
>
>assoc .rev ! this outputs the current association
>
>  ASSOC .rev=RunRevFile
>  FTYPE RunRevFile=D:\Metacard\mc.exe "%1"
>
>assoc .rev=RunRevFile
>assoc mc=RunRevFile
>assoc hc=RunRevFile
>
>double click a rev file and hop it works!
>
>  
>
Hmmmm - obscure command lines "simpler" than a GUI  -  you must be a 
Power User. :-)

That's good if you already have the filetype info for "RunRevFile" set 
up - but you probably won't.

It looks like you can do that by giving the command
ftype RunRevFile = "C:\Program Files\RunRev 2.6.1\revolution.exe"  "%1"
         (adjusted to correct directory for your Rev installation)
but I haven't tested that. 

And those last two commands Xavier gave should be

assoc .mc=RunRevFile
assoc .hc=RunRevFile

(i.e. you want the period before the extension names).

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.2/170 - Release Date: 15/11/2005



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Thu Nov 17 04:00:55 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 10:00:55 +0100
Subject: open with on windows does not work with rev. Heeeeeelp :-)
In-Reply-To: <437C4540.1050007@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <OFF8D19E19.73D10016-ONC12570BC.00314E55-C12570BC.003188DC@deutsche-boerse.com>

thanks for the corrections Alex!

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 17/11/2005 09:54:24:

> xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:
> 
> >it's actually much simpler than what's been described...
> >
> >open a command box and type the following
> >
> >assoc .rev ! this outputs the current association
> >
> >  ASSOC .rev=RunRevFile
> >  FTYPE RunRevFile=D:\Metacard\mc.exe "%1"
> >
> >assoc .rev=RunRevFile
> >assoc mc=RunRevFile
> >assoc hc=RunRevFile
> >
> >double click a rev file and hop it works!
> >
> > 
> >
> Hmmmm - obscure command lines "simpler" than a GUI  -  you must be a 
> Power User. :-)

Simpler because they just take a copy paste. No opening a dialog, click
on a tab, search your type, click "advanced" or edit, choose your file,
click ok...

> That's good if you already have the filetype info for "RunRevFile" set 
> up - but you probably won't.

ASSOC .rev=RunRevFile
This line sets up your file type... as seen in "Ftype /?"


> It looks like you can do that by giving the command
> ftype RunRevFile = "C:\Program Files\RunRev 2.6.1\revolution.exe"  "%1"
>          (adjusted to correct directory for your Rev installation)
> but I haven't tested that. 
> 
> And those last two commands Xavier gave should be
> 
> assoc .mc=RunRevFile
> assoc .hc=RunRevFile

oops, how did i miss those?

> (i.e. you want the period before the extension names).
> 
> -- 
> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net




-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Nov 17 04:14:05 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 09:14:05 +0000
Subject: open with on windows does not work with rev. Heeeeeelp :-)
In-Reply-To: <OFF8D19E19.73D10016-ONC12570BC.00314E55-C12570BC.003188DC@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OFF8D19E19.73D10016-ONC12570BC.00314E55-C12570BC.003188DC@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <437C49DD.9040803@tweedly.net>

xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:

>
>>That's good if you already have the filetype info for "RunRevFile" set 
>>up - but you probably won't.
>>    
>>
>
>ASSOC .rev=RunRevFile
>This line sets up your file type... as seen in "Ftype /?"
>
>  
>
It sets up the filetype - but it doesn't provide the needed info on how 
to run that filetype.
 
Somewhere or somehow you need to tell it that you want to use C:\Program 
Files\Revolution 2.6.1\revolution.exe (or local equivalent) to run these 
files. (Don't you ?)

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net

-------------- next part --------------
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.2/170 - Release Date: 15/11/2005

From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Thu Nov 17 04:39:25 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 10:39:25 +0100
Subject: open with on windows does not work with rev. Heeeeeelp :-)
In-Reply-To: <437C49DD.9040803@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <OF435EAE74.59EFEE00-ONC12570BC.0034DC19-C12570BC.00350F38@deutsche-boerse.com>

Alex

> Somewhere or somehow you need to tell it that you want to use C:\Program 

> Files\Revolution 2.6.1\revolution.exe (or local equivalent) to run these 

> files. (Don't you ?)

that's why first you associate the file type

assoc .rev=RunRevFile -- you create the association to runrevfile for the 
file type

FTYPE RunRevFile=D:\Metacard\mc.exe "%1"
then sets the RunRevFile type(s) to the path...

so if later you add
assoc .mc=RunRevFile, it will work too for mc files...
Thus .mc and .rev files are now RunRevFile(s)...

cheers
Xavier


-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Thu Nov 17 04:43:05 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 10:43:05 +0100
Subject: AW: open with on windows does not work with rev. Heeeeeelp :-)
In-Reply-To: <gemini.ipypq500455cf01ms.rev@armbase.com>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCEEHKDMAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hello Bob,


> Anyone got any idea what I should do (appart from using a mac. :-)
> I'm thinking along the lines of my first forray into the registry. Ohhhh!

If you don't like the DOS based advice already given and don't want to venture into the Registry (although this is not as bad as its reputation), the Windows GUI approach is to open Explorer and look for "Folder Options" (under "View" in Win 98, under "Extras" und Win 2000 and XP, and don't ask me why they use this heading). (This is all guessed from my German interface, interpretation may be necessary.) This will open a window with several tabs, one of the "Types" or so. Look for the extension "REV".
You will most likely then have two options.
- "Change" to change the file association
- "More" or so to define more precisely what contextual menus should be available
With the latter option you could choose to open the stack with the Dreamcard Player on a double click and with  the full engine choosing something like "edit" with a right mouse click.

All the best
Thomas


--
Thomas Fischer
Salzburg 



From jsng at wayoflife.org  Thu Nov 17 05:29:35 2005
From: jsng at wayoflife.org (Jesse Sng)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 18:29:35 +0800
Subject: mTropolis Refugees
In-Reply-To: <200511170827.jAH8Rhhf018365@mail27.syd.optusnet.com.au>
References: <200511170827.jAH8Rhhf018365@mail27.syd.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <p0621020bbfa20b8a00fa@[192.168.0.140]>

>I used mTropolis 2.0 for an interactive CD/ROM that was used to promote
>Singapore. We had QTVR's of Raffles hotel and other famous landmarks,
>quicktime video, stills, maps and most innovatively at that time live links
>to the updatable information on the web for hotel bookings and theme park
>availability etc. Oh, those were the days.
>
>What a fantastic product it was, and I still say "Damn Adobe and Quark" for
>killing it between them...
>
>Cheers
>
>John T

Hi John,

Interesting. I'm also in Singapore and we were looking at using the 
brand new (then) mTropolis 2.0. Anyway we got burnt by that and it 
took me many years before I got rid of the mTropolis box that was 
sitting on my shelf.


Jesse Sng


From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Nov 17 05:57:26 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 10:57:26 +0000
Subject: ANN: XOSMediaLib.rev
In-Reply-To: <20051117042714.DB0B58250EA@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051117042714.DB0B58250EA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <437C6216.5030900@tweedly.net>

Mister X. wrote:

>Hello Revvers 
>
>Here's another release of this powerful media organizer...
>
>  
>
Thanks.
I haven't used it yet, just downloaded it.
But I thought I'd mention that the download page says

> *Download*:
>
> Dowload here 
> <http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=82> 
> (4MBs).
>
> This runrev stack requires GIM.rev 
> <http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=79> 
> (300MBs) to resize correctly. Open it first and activate it. Then open 
> XOSMediaLib.
>
That "300Mb" should be "300Kb".
I did wonder how much I really wanted it, but then decided 300Mb *had* 
to be a mistake.
:-)

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net

-------------- next part --------------
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.2/170 - Release Date: 15/11/2005

From lewisbruce at rogers.com  Thu Nov 17 05:59:16 2005
From: lewisbruce at rogers.com (Bruce Lewis)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 05:59:16 -0500
Subject: Light text
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511162129o7ca6d4ffq4ca553de878db060@mail.gmail.com>
References: <p06230901bfa190d4d3ae@69.195.12.71>
	<f99b52860511162129o7ca6d4ffq4ca553de878db060@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06230900bfa210222a3c@[69.195.12.71]>

Sarah,

Thanks for your comments.

When I double click on a font file, Font Book opens. While it was open, I
resolved all duplicates. Restart. No difference.

I also repaired permissions and verified the startup disk. No problems.

As to individual font file permissions, they are all the same and have a
notation different from other files. I guess they are "read-only" for all
users and groups, which seems logical.

In the Classic system folder there is a fonts folder with conventional
types of permissions settings. I did not touch these.

The basic point is why Revolution is different from all other applications.
This type of adjustment would not be likely to affect different programs
differently.

Thanks.

Bruce



At 3:29 PM +1000 11/17/05, Sarah Reichelt wrote:
>> I just installed Max OS X Tiger 10.4.3 and Revolution 2.6.1 on two
>> different machines. One is a PowerBook and the other a power Mac, both with
>> LCD displays.
>>
>> There seems to be a problem with the legibility of text in Revolution. The
>> problem occurs throughout the program, including in the documentation. The
>> problem occurs on both machines.
>>
>> It is worst in the fields in my stacks, which are mostly Times 14 point. It
>> is not the system, since other programs are fine. I paste some text from a
>> Revolution fld into MS Word and compare the two side by side. MS Word is
>> fine and Revolution is barely legible.
>>
>
>I had a similar problem with a fresh install of Tiger on a new
>computer. It had the fonts my app was using but they weren't
>officially installed, so my app looked terrible. I wasn't running any
>other apps, so I don't know if it was just Rev or whether it affected
>all apps.
>
>If you go to /Library/Fonts (that's the Library folder in root
>directory of the hard disk, not the one in your user folder) you will
>see a whole load of font files. Double-click on the Times or TImes New
>Roman or whichever font you are using. You may see a sample of this
>font appear in a small window with a message at the bottom saying
>"(not installed)" and an Install button. Click "Install" then log out
>& log in again. This may fix the problem.
>
>If it persists, it may be a permissions problem in the font file
>itself. You may need to set the permissions for the font to Read/Write
>for all users.
>
>HTH,
>Sarah
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

-- 
Bruce Lewis
Lewis & Collyer
160 John Street, Suite 401
Toronto, Ontario
Canada  M5V 2E5
(416) 598-4357
FAX (416) 598-1067
bruce at lewiscoll.com
nancy at lewiscoll.com
sandy at lewiscoll.com
joan at lewiscoll.com
eva at lewiscoll.com


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 06:09:13 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:09:13 +1000
Subject: open with on windows does not work with rev. Heeeeeelp :-)
In-Reply-To: <OFE08D2878.5EF72F2D-ONC12570BC.002B3C4B-C12570BC.002CF80E@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <BFA13DBE.2FE4C%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<OFE08D2878.5EF72F2D-ONC12570BC.002B3C4B-C12570BC.002CF80E@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511170309n276d1640x592f4c3c5345f63f@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/17/05, xavier.bury at clearstream.com <xavier.bury at clearstream.com> wrote:
> it's actually much simpler than what's been described...
>
> open a command box and type the following
>
> assoc .rev ! this outputs the current association
>
>   ASSOC .rev=RunRevFile
>   FTYPE RunRevFile=D:\Metacard\mc.exe "%1"
>
> assoc .rev=RunRevFile
> assoc mc=RunRevFile
> assoc hc=RunRevFile
>
> double click a rev file and hop it works!
>
> The real issue though is that the installer doesn't create those
> associations when you install rev!
> So reinstalling rev wont fix the problem.
>

Sorry, but to someone who is not familiar with DOS/Windows, there is
no way this could possibly be simpler than the previous suggestions.
You give no indication of what is the output from the first command
and what is supposed to be typed in. Even with the first command, I am
left wondering whether to type the exclamation mark or whether it is
just a comment marker.

BTW, is is really necessary to attach such a long sig to every one of
your emails to this list? I find it irritating and I get the messages
individually. The people who get the digest must find it a major
inconvenience. If your employer insists on such a sig, perhaps you
could use a non-work email address for this list?

Sarah


From lewisbruce at rogers.com  Thu Nov 17 06:15:02 2005
From: lewisbruce at rogers.com (Bruce Lewis)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 06:15:02 -0500
Subject: Light text OS X 10.4.3
In-Reply-To: <p06230901bfa190d4d3ae@[69.195.12.71]>
References: <p06230901bfa190d4d3ae@[69.195.12.71]>
Message-ID: <p06230901bfa21317db61@[69.195.12.71]>

To add to the information.

Before this started, I erased the partitions and did a fresh install of OS
X and Revolution on both the machines. I updated OS X to 10.4.3.

Before that, I had been using Revolution 2.6.1 on both machines and OS X
10.4.2. Apparently the 10.4.3 update did something about text smoothing. I
do not believe anyone knows exactly what it was, although there is a
setting in the Appearance Preference Pane for automatic, as well as, light,
medium, strong.

The basis question is why Revolution is different from any other
application. Is there some interaction between Revolution and 10.4.3 that
is doing it? Is the text displayed through a different mechanism in
Revolution than other applications?

This occurs not only in flds, but everywhere in Revolution and with all fonts.

Thanks.

Bruce


At 9:05 PM -0500 11/16/05, Bruce Lewis wrote:
>I just installed Max OS X Tiger 10.4.3 and Revolution 2.6.1 on two
>different machines. One is a PowerBook and the other a power Mac, both with
>LCD displays.
>
>There seems to be a problem with the legibility of text in Revolution. The
>problem occurs throughout the program, including in the documentation. The
>problem occurs on both machines.
>
>It is worst in the fields in my stacks, which are mostly Times 14 point. It
>is not the system, since other programs are fine. I paste some text from a
>Revolution fld into MS Word and compare the two side by side. MS Word is
>fine and Revolution is barely legible.
>
>The difference is probably worse if I set smoothing to strong in the system
>preferences, but it is pronounced at any level.
>
>Any thoughts? Anyone else using a similar setup?

-- 
Bruce Lewis
Lewis & Collyer
160 John Street, Suite 401
Toronto, Ontario
Canada  M5V 2E5
(416) 598-4357
FAX (416) 598-1067
bruce at lewiscoll.com
nancy at lewiscoll.com
sandy at lewiscoll.com
joan at lewiscoll.com
eva at lewiscoll.com


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Thu Nov 17 07:36:43 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 13:36:43 +0100
Subject: open with on windows does not work with rev. Heeeeeelp :-)
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511170309n276d1640x592f4c3c5345f63f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OFB824A063.646881AA-ONC12570BC.00437B9A-C12570BC.004541FB@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Sarah,

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 17/11/2005 12:09:13:

> On 11/17/05, xavier.bury at clearstream.com <xavier.bury at clearstream.com> 
wrote:
> > it's actually much simpler than what's been described...
> >
> > open a command box and type the following
> >
> > assoc .rev ! this outputs the current association

> Sorry, but to someone who is not familiar with DOS/Windows, there is
> no way this could possibly be simpler than the previous suggestions.
> You give no indication of what is the output from the first command
> and what is supposed to be typed in. Even with the first command, I am
> left wondering whether to type the exclamation mark or whether it is
> just a comment marker.

Sorry to disapoint you Sarah. DOS is like C, ugly, hard and non-friendly
but damn is it faster than any GUI Moft makes. The point of the batch
here is that with a double click, you dont have to mess with any GUIs
and it's easy to repeat at any time you reinstall rev...

The ! was there to show that was a comment... (if i had used ' the 
comment character though im sure it would have brought up more
questions ;)

> BTW, is is really necessary to attach such a long sig to every one of
> your emails to this list? I find it irritating and I get the messages
> individually. The people who get the digest must find it a major
> inconvenience. If your employer insists on such a sig, perhaps you
> could use a non-work email address for this list?

It's not my doing nor is it to my liking. 

I use another email at home to catch the mailist too but the web email
client (at work) is just good for reading - plus problems with copypastes 
with FireFox make it unusable for replying emails. 

To add to that, my email address is different from the inscription - 
so i can catch it anywhere if their email service goes down so it's a bit 
more complicated than you can imagine - mostly because the mailist doesn't
accept more than one email (one for send and one for receiv.)

All that to make sure i dont miss a post in the mailist ;)

I'd like to say that digests are just as horrible...

Have you tried the mailist in single-mail form? It's easier to find info,
easier to respond, easier to sort or organize or see who sends what! Plus
if you reply, you dont need to strip all the info and change the subject
title... oh yes, with digests you can't filter out emails containing big 
sigs ;(

Also in my web email client i can't see who sends what because the stupid
ajax wannabe looser program doesn't display "from:" headers, html mails
are lost in the translation and it logs out every 10 minutes :(... 

While writing this mail, my 21" monitor died, i had to kill my machine, 
find another screen, start everything over (reconnect to 3 metaframe 
servers, 4 RDP servers, relaunch MC and pickup where i lost the last i 
did to it... And all that for a "!" and a readers' digest ;)

So im sorry for the sig... But the only thing i could do about it, is stop
helping those with questions... For those that dont say thanks, i could
care less but for the others it's part of my rev-xtalk culture so i doubt
i'll stop... ;)

cheers
Xavier
(beware, big ugly corporate sig follows)



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From Stgoldberg at aol.com  Thu Nov 17 07:59:05 2005
From: Stgoldberg at aol.com (Stgoldberg at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 07:59:05 EST
Subject: mTropolis refugees
Message-ID: <158.5c601ee6.30add899@aol.com>

Regarding mTropolis versus Revolution, I've used mTropolis for many projects. 
Presently all the programs in our medical publishing company have been done 
in mTropolis (www.medmaster.net).   Since the demise of mTropolis, I've looked 
at other programs but have now gone to Revolution, which works on OS X, has 
easy Internet connectivity, and has a far more advanced scripting language.   
The concept of behaviors and aliasing is also a feature of Revolution, but it is 
done differently, referring to premade scripts that may reside, for instance, 
in the stack or card.   To me, the ideal program would be one with mTropolis' 
interface, but with the power of Revolution's scripting.

One of the main problems with Revolution, which I understand is being 
addressed now, is the still inadequate documentation for basic features of the 
program.   mTropolis had a superb user manual. While Revolution has an excellent 
online dictionary that explains the meaning and usage of the various scripting 
terms, it still does not have an organized documentation of a number of basic 
features of the program, such as the property inspector, which is heavily used 
in the programming process.   

I suspect that I might not be using Revolution at all if I did not already 
have a significant background in Hypercard scripting, since it is so important 
to have the proper documentation to get started. There is a need for the 
beginner to have a good Getting Started manual, for both the scripting process and 
understanding the basic features of the program.    The Revolution forum is a 
fantastic source of information. There are many people who are right there 
immediately trying to be of help, and have helped me considerably a number of 
times.   I suspect, though, that there would be less need for questions addressed 
to the forum if the documentation for Revolution were better.   The problem is 
that in order to find something, the information appears scattered with no 
central source for addressing many "How to do it" situations.  While there is a 
user manual, it has no Index and the information is not well organized.   As 
mentioned, I understand this is being addressed, and will be important for the 
program to attract new users, particularly if they have no prior experience 
with Hypercard, Metacard or related languages.   All-in-all, Revolution is a 
very powerful program, easy to use in comparison with programs like C++ or Java, 
and is the best I've been able to find since mTropolis, which is why I've made 
the switch.
Steve Goldberg

In a message dated 11/16/05 7:52:28 PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes:


> From: Janus Jakaterina <nuzoo2 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: mTropolis Refugees
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Message-ID: <20051117000125.29608.qmail at web50202.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> Are there many mTropolis folk now residing in the land
> of Revolution?
> 
> If so, how is Revolution for behaviors, aliasing, and
> messaging?
> 
> 



From PS1 at SoftSeven.org  Thu Nov 17 09:16:18 2005
From: PS1 at SoftSeven.org (Paul)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 08:16:18 -0600
Subject: MP3 sound files in Rev.
In-Reply-To: <434EFA0F.2040402@fourthworld.com>
References: <1c8.3339bd66.3080530c@aol.com> <434EFA0F.2040402@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.0.20051117081450.029436c8@SoftSeven.org>

I need to know how to play MP3 files in Rev. I had this information 
one time but I lost a hard drive! Please help.


Paul


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.3/172 - Release Date: 11/15/2005




From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Thu Nov 17 09:19:04 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 14:19:04 +0000
Subject: Downloading mystery
In-Reply-To: <a06110400bfa18dae2541@[192.168.1.102]>
References: <a06110400bfa18dae2541@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <1FC3BB46-343E-49B2-A229-A912B2F99DE2@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 17 Nov 2005, at 01:42, Bruce A. Pokras wrote:

> I am trying to script the downloading of European patents from the  
> European Patent Office's server. They provide a sample URL to use  
> for that purpose, but instead of the patent, I instantly get a zero  
> size file. I've tried it with and without URLencode. However,  
> scriptiing with revGoURL works fine with the same URL to open the  
> patent in my browser. Any ideas? The script I am using goes like this:
>
> on mouseup
> put "https://publications.european-patent-office.org/ 
> PublicationServer/getpdf.jsp?cc=EP&pn=1502503&ki=A1" into theURL
>    put URL theURL into URL "binfile:1502503.pdf"
> end mouseup
>
> Could it be that Rev is allergic to JavaServer Pages? I hope not.  
> Thanks for any help that you might be able to give.

<mauling_by_sheep>
This is a plea, not just to Bruce, but to all of you who do things  
like this, most of whom should know better.

When you deal with URLs, especially internet URLs, things sometimes  
go wrong. Often these things are outside of your control, such as the  
network being busy, being given the wrong URL by your boss, your  
ISP's data center being struck by an asteroid, or a dud hard drive.

It's important that you check that things happen as expected. So  
every time you make a url request, always (i.e. always) check "the  
result".

In the example above, there are two url requests in the same line. So  
should you check the result twice? I'd say "yes". Something like this:

put URL theURL into theData
put the result into theRes
if theRes <> empty then
   answer theRes ## or whatever you need to do
else
   put theData into URL "binfile:1502503.pdf"
   put the result into theRes
   if theRes is not empty then
     answer theRes ## or whatever you need to do
   else
     ##carry on
   end if
end if

</mauling over>

Apart from that, I think Ken's pointer to  "libURLSetSSLVerification"  
will probably work. This will mean that you won't be able to  
authenticate the remote server. Perhaps OK for the patent office, but  
probably not a good idea for doing bank transactions. The alternative  
is to set the sslCertificates property to an appropriate certificates  
file.

Cheers
Dave


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Thu Nov 17 09:20:03 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:20:03 +0100
Subject: MP3 sound files in Rev.
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.0.20051117081450.029436c8@SoftSeven.org>
Message-ID: <OFF3F48693.E65EB6D9-ONC12570BC.004E9878-C12570BC.004EB634@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Paul

> I need to know how to play MP3 files in Rev. I had this information 
> one time but I lost a hard drive! Please help.

Just create a player and set it's path to the file's path...

answer file "Choose a media file to play:"
set the filename of player 1 to thisfile


cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 17/11/2005 15:16:18:

WARNING: big ugly SIG follows ;)


-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Nov 17 09:20:01 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:20:01 +0100
Subject: MP3 sound files in Rev.
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.0.20051117081450.029436c8@SoftSeven.org>
References: <1c8.3339bd66.3080530c@aol.com> <434EFA0F.2040402@fourthworld.com>
	<6.2.5.6.0.20051117081450.029436c8@SoftSeven.org>
Message-ID: <3AA9E870-DD0A-4BD2-8DE4-F4F58641E00C@major-k.de>

Hi Paul,

> I need to know how to play MP3 files in Rev. I had this information  
> one time but I lost a hard drive! Please help.

Create a player-object and set its filename to the mp3 file.
But this requires Quicktime to be installed!

> Paul

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Thu Nov 17 09:24:13 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:24:13 +0100
Subject: Downloading mystery
In-Reply-To: <1FC3BB46-343E-49B2-A229-A912B2F99DE2@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <OF3637F542.AA9901C1-ONC12570BC.004F0408-C12570BC.004F1817@deutsche-boerse.com>

Bruce,

I got this message from their front page...

"The server at publications.european-patent-office.org is taking too long 
to respond."

i get timeouts... their web server could be down...

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 17/11/2005 15:19:04:

> 
> On 17 Nov 2005, at 01:42, Bruce A. Pokras wrote:
> 
> > I am trying to script the downloading of European patents from the 
> > European Patent Office's server. They provide a sample URL to use 
> > for that purpose, but instead of the patent, I instantly get a zero 
> > size file. I've tried it with and without URLencode. However, 
> > scriptiing with revGoURL works fine with the same URL to open the 
> > patent in my browser. Any ideas? The script I am using goes like this:
> >
> > on mouseup
> > put "https://publications.european-patent-office.org/ 
> > PublicationServer/getpdf.jsp?cc=EP&pn=1502503&ki=A1" into theURL
> >    put URL theURL into URL "binfile:1502503.pdf"
> > end mouseup
> >
> > Could it be that Rev is allergic to JavaServer Pages? I hope not. 
> > Thanks for any help that you might be able to give.
> 
> <mauling_by_sheep>
> This is a plea, not just to Bruce, but to all of you who do things 
> like this, most of whom should know better.
> 
> When you deal with URLs, especially internet URLs, things sometimes 
> go wrong. Often these things are outside of your control, such as the 
> network being busy, being given the wrong URL by your boss, your 
> ISP's data center being struck by an asteroid, or a dud hard drive.
> 
> It's important that you check that things happen as expected. So 
> every time you make a url request, always (i.e. always) check "the 
> result".
> 
> In the example above, there are two url requests in the same line. So 
> should you check the result twice? I'd say "yes". Something like this:
> 
> put URL theURL into theData
> put the result into theRes
> if theRes <> empty then
>    answer theRes ## or whatever you need to do
> else
>    put theData into URL "binfile:1502503.pdf"
>    put the result into theRes
>    if theRes is not empty then
>      answer theRes ## or whatever you need to do
>    else
>      ##carry on
>    end if
> end if
> 
> </mauling over>
> 
> Apart from that, I think Ken's pointer to  "libURLSetSSLVerification" 
> will probably work. This will mean that you won't be able to 
> authenticate the remote server. Perhaps OK for the patent office, but 
> probably not a good idea for doing bank transactions. The alternative 
> is to set the sslCertificates property to an appropriate certificates 
> file.
> 
> Cheers
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From jhurley at infostations.com  Thu Nov 17 09:26:21 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 06:26:21 -0800
Subject: mTropolis Refugees
In-Reply-To: <20051117001733.6BF6F8250C3@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051117001733.6BF6F8250C3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p0623091dbfa242254ff6@[69.85.136.202]>

>
>Message: 10
>Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 16:01:25 -0800 (PST)
>From: Janus Jakaterina <nuzoo2 at yahoo.com>
>Subject: mTropolis Refugees
>To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Message-ID: <20051117000125.29608.qmail at web50202.mail.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>Are there many mTropolis folk now residing in the land
>of Revolution?
>
>If so, how is Revolution for behaviors, aliasing, and
>messaging?
>
>Other than the arcade engine, which seems to be a 3rd
>party product, can Revolution handle multiple moving
>objects or collision detection?


Janus,

Not sure what mTropolis is, but you might check out  "Nine ball" on 
my web site:

http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/

Actually Run Rev can handle 15 ball pool, but it clutters the table. 
You might also find "Bouncing ball tools" helpful as well. Depends on 
what you are interested in.

Jim




From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Nov 17 09:28:20 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:28:20 +0100
Subject: HTML issue
Message-ID: <280C45E5-F477-4374-BBA5-D20E64A737A1@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi all,

I want to change the colour of a string in some styled text.
As the string may be any string like "font", "size", etc. that appear  
in html tags,
I use the following code that works but I'm not satisfied with it...
Any more elegant solution?
Thanks.

   put the htmlText of fld "Result" into tText
   -----
   replace "<font" with numToChar(3) in tText
   replace "face=" with numToChar(8) in tText
   replace "size=" with numToChar(9) in tText
   replace "color=" with numToChar(27) in tText
   replace "</font>" with numToChar(244) in tText
   -----
   replace pFind with numToChar(3) && numToChar(27) & quote \
      & the uPatternColor of this stack & quote & ">" & pFind \
      & "</font>" in tText
   -----
   replace numToChar(3) with "<font" in tText
   replace numToChar(8) with "face=" in tText
   replace numToChar(9) with "size=" in tText
   replace numToChar(27) with "color=" in tText
   replace numToChar(244) with "</font>" in tText
   -----
   set the htmlText of fld "Result" to tText

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Nov 17 09:32:54 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:32:54 +0100
Subject: MP3 sound files in Rev.
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.0.20051117081450.029436c8@SoftSeven.org>
References: <1c8.3339bd66.3080530c@aol.com> <434EFA0F.2040402@fourthworld.com>
	<6.2.5.6.0.20051117081450.029436c8@SoftSeven.org>
Message-ID: <096DC51E-742A-407A-9804-DEA17753F749@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Paul,

You might be interested in the following tutorial:  "How to Monitor a  
QuickTime Player by Script" available from Tutorials Picker:
This stack shows you how to monitor a QT player to play music (mp3  
included) and provide all the usual commands, and more, to the user.
The main commands are embedded in a scripted group, which you can  
export into any project.
Print function included.

Tutorials Picker is available from my website http:// 
www.sosmartsoftware.com/ (Revolution > Plugins or Tutorials)

Best Regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.

Le 17 nov. 05 ? 15:16, Paul a ?crit :

> I need to know how to play MP3 files in Rev. I had this information  
> one time but I lost a hard drive! Please help.

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Thu Nov 17 09:45:15 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:45:15 +0100
Subject: HTML issue
In-Reply-To: <280C45E5-F477-4374-BBA5-D20E64A737A1@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <OF034CCD50.4807EAC8-ONC12570BC.00505A32-C12570BC.0051050C@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Eric

I dont see what's wrong... 

Though you dont need to change the <font and the </Font> tags, you seem to 
handle the rest
gracefully.

Though, i dont see what you want to change, this seems ok looking...

>    replace pFind with numToChar(3) && numToChar(27) & quote \
>       & the uPatternColor of this stack & quote & ">" & pFind \
>       & "</font>" in tText

what is pfind? A collection of numtochar(3)&numtochar(8), etc... that is 
going to be 
simplified with:
>                   numToChar(3) && numToChar(27) & quote \
>       & the uPatternColor of this stack & quote & ">" & pFind \
>       & "</font>"
?

what seems wrong in my confused mind is

you put the text into tText - ok
replace the tags - OK

 replace pFind with numToChar(3) && numToChar(27) & quote \
>       & the uPatternColor of this stack & quote & ">" & pFind \
>       & "</font>" in tText

and this doesn't seem ok. If you replace pfind (assume no tags in that
first pfind string (since you put them after in the replace string), 
then you're going to have <tags><tags>pfind<tags>

or did i read this wrong?

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 17/11/2005 15:28:20:

> Hi all,
> 
> I want to change the colour of a string in some styled text.
> As the string may be any string like "font", "size", etc. that appear 
> in html tags,
> I use the following code that works but I'm not satisfied with it...
> Any more elegant solution?
> Thanks.
> 
>    put the htmlText of fld "Result" into tText
>    -----
>    replace "<font" with numToChar(3) in tText
>    replace "face=" with numToChar(8) in tText
>    replace "size=" with numToChar(9) in tText
>    replace "color=" with numToChar(27) in tText
>    replace "</font>" with numToChar(244) in tText
>    -----
>    replace pFind with numToChar(3) && numToChar(27) & quote \
>       & the uPatternColor of this stack & quote & ">" & pFind \
>       & "</font>" in tText
>    -----
>    replace numToChar(3) with "<font" in tText
>    replace numToChar(8) with "face=" in tText
>    replace numToChar(9) with "size=" in tText
>    replace numToChar(27) with "color=" in tText
>    replace numToChar(244) with "</font>" in tText
>    -----
>    set the htmlText of fld "Result" to tText
> 
> Best Regards from Paris,
> 
> Eric Chatonet.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> So Smart Software
> 
> For institutions, companies and associations
> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
> 
> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Thu Nov 17 09:49:13 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:49:13 +0100
Subject: ANN: XOSMediaLib.rev
In-Reply-To: <437C6216.5030900@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <OFB2384DEE.4FD3E8E9-ONC12570BC.00513A70-C12570BC.00516207@deutsche-boerse.com>

Alex,

you were right, not 300MBs ;)
It's been a hell of a confusing day ;)

thanks very much!
cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 17/11/2005 11:57:26:

> Mister X. wrote:
> 
> >Hello Revvers 
> >
> >Here's another release of this powerful media organizer...
> >
> > 
> >
> Thanks.
> I haven't used it yet, just downloaded it.
> But I thought I'd mention that the download page says
> 
> > *Download*:
> >
> > Dowload here 
> > <http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=82> 
> > (4MBs).
> >
> > This runrev stack requires GIM.rev 
> > <http://monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=79> 
> > (300MBs) to resize correctly. Open it first and activate it. Then open 

> > XOSMediaLib.
> >
> That "300Mb" should be "300Kb".
> I did wonder how much I really wanted it, but then decided 300Mb *had* 
> to be a mistake.
> :-)
> 
> -- 
> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net
> 


-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Nov 17 09:56:09 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:56:09 +0100
Subject: HTML issue
In-Reply-To: <OF034CCD50.4807EAC8-ONC12570BC.00505A32-C12570BC.0051050C@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OF034CCD50.4807EAC8-ONC12570BC.00505A32-C12570BC.0051050C@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <05CD25B6-D66A-4FFB-B7D4-40E84E572D6D@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Xavier,

Thanks Xavier,
You are almost right.
I prefer this formulation:

   replace pFind with numToChar(3) && numToChar(27) & quote \
      & the uPatternColor of this stack & quote & ">" & pFind \
      & numToChar(244) in tText

Here I replaced "</font>" with numToChar(244)
That's more consistent but in fact does not change anything :-)
pFind is the string the colour of which has to changed.
The whole thing is a function and pFind a parameter.

My problem is only that I don't find an more elegant way to do that.


Le 17 nov. 05 ? 15:45, xavier.bury at clearstream.com a ?crit :

> Hi Eric
>
> I dont see what's wrong...
>
> Though you dont need to change the <font and the </Font> tags, you  
> seem to
> handle the rest
> gracefully.
>
> Though, i dont see what you want to change, this seems ok looking...
>
>>    replace pFind with numToChar(3) && numToChar(27) & quote \
>>       & the uPatternColor of this stack & quote & ">" & pFind \
>>       & "</font>" in tText
>
> what is pfind? A collection of numtochar(3)&numtochar(8), etc...  
> that is
> going to be
> simplified with:
>>                   numToChar(3) && numToChar(27) & quote \
>>       & the uPatternColor of this stack & quote & ">" & pFind \
>>       & "</font>"
> ?
>
> what seems wrong in my confused mind is
>
> you put the text into tText - ok
> replace the tags - OK
>
>  replace pFind with numToChar(3) && numToChar(27) & quote \
>>       & the uPatternColor of this stack & quote & ">" & pFind \
>>       & "</font>" in tText
>
> and this doesn't seem ok. If you replace pfind (assume no tags in that
> first pfind string (since you put them after in the replace string),
> then you're going to have <tags><tags>pfind<tags>
>
> or did i read this wrong?
>
> cheers
> Xavier
>
> use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 17/11/2005 15:28:20:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I want to change the colour of a string in some styled text.
>> As the string may be any string like "font", "size", etc. that appear
>> in html tags,
>> I use the following code that works but I'm not satisfied with it...
>> Any more elegant solution?
>> Thanks.
>>
>>    put the htmlText of fld "Result" into tText
>>    -----
>>    replace "<font" with numToChar(3) in tText
>>    replace "face=" with numToChar(8) in tText
>>    replace "size=" with numToChar(9) in tText
>>    replace "color=" with numToChar(27) in tText
>>    replace "</font>" with numToChar(244) in tText
>>    -----
>>    replace pFind with numToChar(3) && numToChar(27) & quote \
>>       & the uPatternColor of this stack & quote & ">" & pFind \
>>       & "</font>" in tText
>>    -----
>>    replace numToChar(3) with "<font" in tText
>>    replace numToChar(8) with "face=" in tText
>>    replace numToChar(9) with "size=" in tText
>>    replace numToChar(27) with "color=" in tText
>>    replace numToChar(244) with "</font>" in tText
>>    -----
>>    set the htmlText of fld "Result" to tText
>>
>> Best Regards from Paris,
>>
>> Eric Chatonet.
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> So Smart Software
>>
>> For institutions, companies and associations
>> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
>> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>>
>> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
>> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
>> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
>> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
> recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
> standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.
>
> Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
>
> IMPORTANT MESSAGE
>
> Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
> International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
> this message.
>
> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
> legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you  
> are
> not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
> any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
> prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
> those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
> states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
> its affiliates or subsidiaries.
>
> END OF DISCLAIMER
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu  Thu Nov 17 10:36:33 2005
From: marty at vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu (Marty Billingsley)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 09:36:33 -0600 (CST)
Subject: MP3 sound files in Rev.
In-Reply-To: <20051117134958.B11508251CE@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051117134958.B11508251CE@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0511170932120.17145@vertex.ucls.uchicago.edu>

Paul <PS1 at SoftSeven.org> writes:
>
> I need to know how to play MP3 files in Rev. I had this information
> one time but I lost a hard drive! Please help.

What I have my students do is to use QuickTime Pro to convert the
mp3 files to mov files.  That way they can import the sound as a
video and play it using
 play videoclip songfile.mov

Because the sound is imported into the stack, students don't have to
bother with filename paths.  Also, because it's a videoclip, they can
pause and resume the sound when needed.  Audioclips don't have that
capability.

It seems odd to change audio into video, but this has worked well
for us.

  - marty

--
Marty Billingsley (marty at ucls.uchicago.edu)
The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools


From jiro at ronri-kobo.com  Thu Nov 17 10:41:01 2005
From: jiro at ronri-kobo.com (Jiro Harada)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 00:41:01 +0900
Subject: [ANN] F-ab is now available for downloading
Message-ID: <90CED763-8C2F-4242-816A-8DC79F20FFDB@ronri-kobo.com>

Hello,

"F-ab" is now available for downloading.
F-ab is a browser for Flash movies. Flash movies are switched by
changing the channel like TV programs in it. You can see 10000 Flash
movies by changing the channel from "0000" to "9999".

F-ab was created by Revolution and Java.
This product is a freeware (not a open-source product).

Download:
http://www.f-ab.net/

System requirements:
OS: Mac OS X 10.4 or later
Memory: 512 MB of RAM or more
Display: 1024 x 768 or lager

We have a plan to port this product to Windows. Currently few Flash
movies has registered in F-ab. Please register your Flash movies to F-
ab, if you use them in your web pages. Registration is free.

Best regards,

Jiro Harada
jiro at f-ab.net
----------------------------------------
Ronri Kobo, Inc.
806, 6-24-2, Nishi-Gotanda, Shinagawa-ku
Tokyo, 141-0031 Japan
IP Phone/Fax. +81 50 3346 0007
support at ronri-kobo.com
http://www.ronri-kobo.com/
----------------------------------------


From shaosean at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 17 11:25:13 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 11:25:13 -0500
Subject: Signatures and quoting
In-Reply-To: <20051117134958.CF0E98251E8@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-F3284A0F621AEAB0D584785C35F0@phx.gbl>

>BTW, is is really necessary to attach such a long sig to every one of
>your emails to this list? I find it irritating and I get the messages
>individually. The people who get the digest must find it a major
>inconvenience. If your employer insists on such a sig, perhaps you
>could use a non-work email address for this list?

As much as big signatures are annoying, what's even more annoying are people 
who don't snip them from replies or those people who quote whole messages to 
say thanks (and the people who keep quoting the quoted messages should all 
be shot)..  I get the list in digest mode and some days there are only 3 
messages in the digest (and not due to it being a slow day but just people 
who can't seem to quote nicely)..

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Nov 17 11:28:11 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:28:11 +0100
Subject: [ANN] F-ab is now available for downloading
In-Reply-To: <90CED763-8C2F-4242-816A-8DC79F20FFDB@ronri-kobo.com>
References: <90CED763-8C2F-4242-816A-8DC79F20FFDB@ronri-kobo.com>
Message-ID: <1DF4C38F-B61E-44CD-9BFB-A9E9C27B2687@major-k.de>

Konichi-wa Jiro-san,

> Hello,
>
> "F-ab" is now available for downloading.
> F-ab is a browser for Flash movies. Flash movies are switched by
> changing the channel like TV programs in it. You can see 10000 Flash
> movies by changing the channel from "0000" to "9999".
>
> F-ab was created by Revolution and Java.
> This product is a freeware (not a open-source product).
>
> Download:
> http://www.f-ab.net/
>
> System requirements:
> OS: Mac OS X 10.4 or later
> Memory: 512 MB of RAM or more
> Display: 1024 x 768 or lager

Yoku dekimashita! :-)

Could you please tell us a bit more about how you did this?
I am sure most of the listmembers would love to know a bit about the
technical background.

And most of us are VERY interested in displaying Flash content inside
Rev without altBrowser and/or Quicktime! ;-)

> We have a plan to port this product to Windows.

Maybe this can be done by using the wonderful "altBrowser" plugin  
from Altuit?
  http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altBrowserCover/default.htm

I may be a bit too naive, but at the first glance... ;-)

> Currently few Flash
> movies has registered in F-ab. Please register your Flash movies to F-
> ab, if you use them in your web pages. Registration is free.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jiro Harada
> jiro at f-ab.net
> ----------------------------------------
> Ronri Kobo, Inc.
> 806, 6-24-2, Nishi-Gotanda, Shinagawa-ku
> Tokyo, 141-0031 Japan
> IP Phone/Fax. +81 50 3346 0007
> support at ronri-kobo.com
> http://www.ronri-kobo.com/

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Nov 17 12:10:57 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 18:10:57 +0100
Subject: Signatures and quoting
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-F3284A0F621AEAB0D584785C35F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20051117163149.B0038825187@mail.runrev.com>

I didn't want to demonize digests. In case this is brewing the thread ;)

Digests are helpful, like Tibtits was, but in the waves of mails that some
of us get, it's unmanageable... If you reply often to the list, it's lots of
work to clean the "topic"... (select the story in the digest, copy, select
all, paste), now paste the right subject, add ">" before each line, etc...)

It's too hard to manage things via digest. And I seriously would like to
change how mail works at work (with the big corp legal security sig) or the
spam crap that's prepended the subjects which I miss or the times when the
second email in the "to:" fields gets you in an embarassing situation of
some sorts (which I've missed in the past and still am subject to trip
onto)... 

in a perfect world, one email only shows, with just a bit of good will..
this wouldn't be an issue...

or your email client strips the sigs (TAOO CAN DO THIS :)

And the right quote naturally... We need to see at least once what that
"sripped quote" was from that user ;)

I just don?t see how or why people think digests are useful or practical.
Can anyone enlighten me on it's advantages?

Cheers
Xavier


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Sean Shao
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 17:25
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Signatures and quoting
> 
> >BTW, is is really necessary to attach such a long sig to 
> every one of 
> >your emails to this list? I find it irritating and I get the 
> messages 
> >individually. The people who get the digest must find it a major 
> >inconvenience. If your employer insists on such a sig, perhaps you 
> >could use a non-work email address for this list?
> 
> As much as big signatures are annoying, what's even more 
> annoying are people who don't snip them from replies or those 
> people who quote whole messages to say thanks (and the people 
> who keep quoting the quoted messages should all be shot)..  I 
> get the list in digest mode and some days there are only 3 
> messages in the digest (and not due to it being a slow day 
> but just people who can't seem to quote nicely)..
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today 
> - it's FREE! 
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov 17 12:13:25 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 09:13:25 -0800
Subject: Signatures and quoting
In-Reply-To: <20051117163149.B0038825187@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051117163149.B0038825187@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <437CBA35.6060707@fourthworld.com>

MisterX wrote:
> or your email client strips the sigs (TAOO CAN DO THIS :)

So TAOO can also do that when emails are sent?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Nov 17 12:26:04 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 18:26:04 +0100
Subject: Signatures and quoting
In-Reply-To: <437CBA35.6060707@fourthworld.com>
References: <20051117163149.B0038825187@mail.runrev.com>
	<437CBA35.6060707@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <91211FC9-94DD-4D79-8F0C-AEC2005D8C7C@sosmartsoftware.com>

Le 17 nov. 05 ? 18:13, Richard Gaskin a ?crit :

> MisterX wrote:
>> or your email client strips the sigs (TAOO CAN DO THIS :)
>
> So TAOO can also do that when emails are sent?

Not very kind but LOL
As for me, unfortunately I don't have TAOO :-(

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
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From scott at tactilemedia.com  Thu Nov 17 13:15:49 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 10:15:49 -0800
Subject: HTML issue
In-Reply-To: <280C45E5-F477-4374-BBA5-D20E64A737A1@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <BFA208D5.25251%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently,Eric Chatonet wrote:

> I want to change the colour of a string in some styled text.
> As the string may be any string like "font", "size", etc. that appear
> in html tags,
> I use the following code that works but I'm not satisfied with it...
> Any more elegant solution?

Are you modifying "real" HTML text for display in a Web browser or are you
modifying a block of Rev text?  If you're talking about Rev text, can you
just set the textcolor of a chunk description?

  set the textColor of char 2 to 7 of fld "result" to green

This should keep your formatting intact.  Or are you doing something else?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From rev at armbase.com  Thu Nov 17 13:28:33 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (Bob Hartley)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 18:28:33 +0000
Subject: open with on windows does not work with rev. Heeeeeelp :-)
In-Reply-To: <437BE431.1010208@tweedly.net>
References: <gemini.ipypq500455cf01ms.rev@armbase.com> 
	<f99b52860511161703r68976d2fga91f702cd5b37bda@mail.gmail.com> 
	<437BE431.1010208@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <gemini.iq43bl000q5p100mk.rev@armbase.com>

Alex Tweedly <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:

> Sarah Reichelt wrote:
> 
> > > So I doubleclicked on the plugin (has a .rev extension) and windows
> > > asked me what application I wanted to use. Since rev was not in the
> > > list, I clicked browse to go to the rev 2.6 folder and clicked on
> > > revolution.exe.
> >>
> > > I then clicked open and then OK. Oooooops. Windows XP did not
> > > recognise revolution.exe and set all the files with a .rev extension
> > > to firefox. :-(
> >>
> > > I tried going to the individual properties and diong it that way but
> > > still no luck. Windows does not recognise revolution as an app to
> > > associate fieltypes with.
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >
> > I can't help, but I can confirm this except that in my case, Windows
> > insists on using WinRAR to boot my .rev stacks. When I choose "Open
> > with..." I get a list that does not include Revolution, so I choose
> > Browse and go and find the Revolution.exe. After finding it, it still
> > doesn't appear in the list, so I can't select it and I can't tell
> > Windows to use it for all .rev files.
> >
> > I assumed it was just me as I am not a Windows person, but maybe it is
> > Rev. Should I try re-installing? I uninstalled WinRAR but that didn't
> > help.
> >  
> >
> Click on "My Computer"
>  From the menu, select Tools / Folder Options ...
> Select the Tab "File Types" Scroll down to find REV    (*) Click on
> "Change ..." button Check the box "Always use the selected program to open
> this file type" If Rev Engine isn't in the list, use Browse to find it and
> select it. Click OK
> 
> That should set it up so that all .rev files open with it.
> 

Hi Folks.

All sorted now . Sorry for the delay in getting back but I was on webmail on
my other machine. Anyway.......

The problem was that when I did this suggestion it did not see rev. However,
I fixed it via the registry.

I searched through all the things in the registry until I found all the .rev
items. One had a path to rev-2.5 so I changed that to rev 2.6 and then rev
2.5 appeared in the list of apps. Then I changed it no problem. I then
bought registry mechanic to check the registry and correct any problems.

I'm toying with linux anyway, since I'm fed up buying thingds like
diskeeper, regmachanic etc etc etc etc just so the thing doesn't grind to a
halt.

Cheers
Bob


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Thu Nov 17 13:41:03 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 13:41:03 -0500
Subject: Signatures and quoting
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-F3284A0F621AEAB0D584785C35F0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY105-F3284A0F621AEAB0D584785C35F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6ECEF71A-15B0-4D5C-A9ED-29DDDFA0298A@conncoll.edu>

They don't shoot people on this list. Lethal injections are the  
preferred mode.

Charles Hartman


On Nov 17, 2005, at 11:25 AM, Sean Shao wrote:




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov 17 14:10:43 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 11:10:43 -0800
Subject: open with on windows does not work with rev. Heeeeeelp :-)
In-Reply-To: <gemini.iq43bl000q5p100mk.rev@armbase.com>
References: <gemini.ipypq500455cf01ms.rev@armbase.com>
	<f99b52860511161703r68976d2fga91f702cd5b37bda@mail.gmail.com>
	<437BE431.1010208@tweedly.net>
	<gemini.iq43bl000q5p100mk.rev@armbase.com>
Message-ID: <437CD5B3.6050700@fourthworld.com>

Bob Hartley wrote:
> I'm toying with linux anyway, since I'm fed up buying thingds like
> diskeeper, regmachanic etc etc etc etc just so the thing doesn't grind to a
> halt.

I'm posting in hopes that someone will tell me I'm wrong, but last time 
I looked into the same issues on Linux I found a horribly disorganized mess.

The goals are simple enough:

- Associate a file type with an application, such that
   double-clicking a document of that type launches the app.

- Assign icons for the app and its documents.

- Place alias/shortcut entry in the Start menu (or equivalent
   common UI for launching apps).

By virtue of the plists in OS X bundles the first two are automatic on 
OS X, and with resources it was automatic on Mac OS.

Windows handles those first two through the Registry, requiring explicit 
effort from the developer but at least there's only one relatively 
simple mechanism you need to worry about.

Then we come to Linux window managers:

Last I looked, each had their own special mechanism for this, each 
requiring a different API, with no consistency from one window manager 
to another.

I would be so glad to be wrong on this.

URLs to a universal spec for accomplishing this with things we can do in 
Rev would be appreciated.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From shaosean at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 17 14:47:25 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 14:47:25 -0500
Subject: Signatures and quoting
Message-ID: <BAY105-F353525B04A1E7D8C972AB0C35F0@phx.gbl>

No disrespect intended Xavier, but your reply to my message is a perfect 
example of what I'm talking about. It had the message headers, the stupid 
Hotmail signature and the mailing-list signature quoted.

I'm on the digest mode because there are many topics mentioned on the list 
aren't really something I'm interested (mind you there are more interesting 
topics than not), but with all the "garbage" in posted in the message it 
makes it very difficult to be able to scan through and find interesting 
tid-bits of knowledge and snippets of code (somedays I just look at the 
subject list and hit delete).. I wasn't on the digest and I received 40 
emails a day that were basically bandwidth wasters I'd probably cancel my 
subscription to the list.

Now if only email clients were smart enough to strip the signatures like 
they're supposed to ;-)

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Nov 17 15:04:24 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 14:04:24 -0600
Subject: HTML issue
In-Reply-To: <280C45E5-F477-4374-BBA5-D20E64A737A1@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <BFA23E68.2FF14%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/17/05 8:28 AM, "Eric Chatonet" <eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com>
wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I want to change the colour of a string in some styled text.
> As the string may be any string like "font", "size", etc. that appear
> in html tags,
> I use the following code that works but I'm not satisfied with it...
> Any more elegant solution?

Yes, you can use regex:

  put the htmlText of fld "Result" into tText
  if matchChunk(tText,"(?s)<font.*?color=\"(.*?)\"",tStart,tEnd) then
    put the uPatternColor of this stack into char tStart to tEnd of tText
  end if
  set the htmlText of fld "Result" to tText

Enjoy!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Nov 17 15:14:36 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:14:36 +0100
Subject: Signatures and quoting
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-F353525B04A1E7D8C972AB0C35F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20051117193524.EF55C82520B@mail.runrev.com>

well I'll just take it as disrespect if you deleted my mails based on the
subject...

There's a law of emailness I learned...

you can't judge a mail by it's subject or author...

Anything is a clue to the market...

a demand or a supply of economic flow...

Though I delete 2 to 4 messages from the list as duh's, the rest is serious
IMOHO...

revv
Xavv


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Sean Shao
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 20:47
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: RE: Signatures and quoting
> 
> No disrespect intended Xavier, but your reply to my message 
> is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. It had the 
> message headers, the stupid Hotmail signature and the 
> mailing-list signature quoted.
> 
> I'm on the digest mode because there are many topics 
> mentioned on the list aren't really something I'm interested 
> (mind you there are more interesting topics than not), but 
> with all the "garbage" in posted in the message it makes it 
> very difficult to be able to scan through and find 
> interesting tid-bits of knowledge and snippets of code 
> (somedays I just look at the subject list and hit delete).. I 
> wasn't on the digest and I received 40 emails a day that were 
> basically bandwidth wasters I'd probably cancel my 
> subscription to the list.
> 
> Now if only email clients were smart enough to strip the 
> signatures like they're supposed to ;-)
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today 
> - it's FREE! 
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Nov 17 15:17:10 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:17:10 +0100
Subject: HTML issue
In-Reply-To: <BFA208D5.25251%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BFA208D5.25251%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <3B001D4D-77A4-433F-9A1D-A0A0D4C4A272@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Scott,

Thanks for your interest.
It's Rev html, but styled one with tags that use the words font,  
size, face and color.
When these words are the searched words too, here comes the problem...
In addition, the pattern can be a part of a word.
I found out that the method I used is very fast (250 milliseconds for  
250 000 chars where there are several hundred occurrences).
Then I'm afraid that a method that would use a repeat loop to get the  
right chunks would be much more slower...
Several seconds...

Le 17 nov. 05 ? 19:15, Scott Rossi a ?crit :

> Are you modifying "real" HTML text for display in a Web browser or  
> are you
> modifying a block of Rev text?  If you're talking about Rev text,  
> can you
> just set the textcolor of a chunk description?
>
>   set the textColor of char 2 to 7 of fld "result" to green
>
> This should keep your formatting intact.  Or are you doing  
> something else?


Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 15:28:16 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 06:28:16 +1000
Subject: open with on windows does not work with rev. Heeeeeelp :-)
In-Reply-To: <OFB824A063.646881AA-ONC12570BC.00437B9A-C12570BC.004541FB@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <f99b52860511170309n276d1640x592f4c3c5345f63f@mail.gmail.com>
	<OFB824A063.646881AA-ONC12570BC.00437B9A-C12570BC.004541FB@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511171228v73b44b3eg5ec3ba6cb8531e80@mail.gmail.com>

> > > it's actually much simpler than what's been described...
> > > open a command box and type the following
> > > assoc .rev ! this outputs the current association
>
> > Sorry, but to someone who is not familiar with DOS/Windows, there is
> > no way this could possibly be simpler than the previous suggestions.
> > You give no indication of what is the output from the first command
> > and what is supposed to be typed in. Even with the first command, I am
> > left wondering whether to type the exclamation mark or whether it is
> > just a comment marker.
>
> Sorry to disapoint you Sarah. DOS is like C, ugly, hard and non-friendly
> but damn is it faster than any GUI Moft makes. The point of the batch
> here is that with a double click, you dont have to mess with any GUIs
> and it's easy to repeat at any time you reinstall rev...
>
> The ! was there to show that was a comment... (if i had used ' the
> comment character though im sure it would have brought up more
> questions ;)
>

Now you are adding a new instruction. Where do I do this magical
double-click that will solve everything?

Sarah
(who gets the all the list emails singly but still finds long sigs to
be an annoyance).


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Nov 17 15:44:46 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:44:46 +0100
Subject: open with on windows does not work with rev. Heeeeeelp :-)
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511171228v73b44b3eg5ec3ba6cb8531e80@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051117200533.0CCCE825200@mail.runrev.com>

 
> Now you are adding a new instruction. Where do I do this 
> magical double-click that will solve everything?
> 
> Sarah
> (who gets the all the list emails singly but still finds long 
> sigs to be an annoyance).

ah, the doubleclick command.... you got me there!

Sarah, sorry for completely useless sigs from work...

X
we usually do only a custom home-made sigs each time when possible... 

http://monsieurx.com 
the richest weirdest most xplosive 
rev place to find yourself into!



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Nov 17 15:49:51 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:49:51 +0100
Subject: HTML issue
In-Reply-To: <3B001D4D-77A4-433F-9A1D-A0A0D4C4A272@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <20051117201040.174BF825224@mail.runrev.com>

hummm

in the most downloaded file in monsieurx.com aka the DiscreteBrowser I cache
the html (real), htmltext (somewhat unreal), and text versions of text...

This allows different object (context) parsings for html objects or text
datas or rev text layout parameters to be filtered...

more ideas for keyword cross referencing or relativizing...
links or media parsing...

just a hint...

cheers
Xavier
Http://monsieurx.com/rev

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Eric Chatonet
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 21:17
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: HTML issue
> 
> Hi Scott,
> 
> Thanks for your interest.
> It's Rev html, but styled one with tags that use the words 
> font, size, face and color.
> When these words are the searched words too, here comes the problem...
> In addition, the pattern can be a part of a word.
> I found out that the method I used is very fast (250 
> milliseconds for 250 000 chars where there are several 
> hundred occurrences).
> Then I'm afraid that a method that would use a repeat loop to 
> get the right chunks would be much more slower...
> Several seconds...
> 
> Le 17 nov. 05 ? 19:15, Scott Rossi a ?crit :
> 
> > Are you modifying "real" HTML text for display in a Web 
> browser or are 
> > you modifying a block of Rev text?  If you're talking about 
> Rev text, 
> > can you just set the textcolor of a chunk description?
> >
> >   set the textColor of char 2 to 7 of fld "result" to green
> >
> > This should keep your formatting intact.  Or are you doing 
> something 
> > else?
> 
> 
> Best Regards from Paris,
> 
> Eric Chatonet.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> So Smart Software
> 
> For institutions, companies and associations
> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
> 
> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From Camm29 at tesco.net  Thu Nov 17 15:47:33 2005
From: Camm29 at tesco.net (Camm29)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 20:47:33 -0000
Subject: Leading Zeros in Binary
Message-ID: <001501c5ebb8$248c2000$0a01a8c0@mobile1>

Help !!!! Please

When using baseConvert ("00FFFFFF" , 16 , 2) 

it returns 111111111111111111111111 

This is correct but i wish to keep the leading zeros for bit manipulation

so i need the result to be ,
00000000111111111111111111111111

Kind Regards

From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Nov 17 15:52:05 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:52:05 +0100
Subject: HTML issue
In-Reply-To: <BFA23E68.2FF14%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BFA23E68.2FF14%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <F0DDE601-F3BC-4098-B77E-00F81414AFCB@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Ken,

Thank you.
Seems that your solution would change the first color definition that  
is already present in the html code.
May be I misunderstand :-)
In my case, first there are hundred of occurrences and second, they  
have not any color tag yet.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

PS. It's time for me to dig in Regex...

Le 17 nov. 05 ? 21:04, Ken Ray a ?crit :

>> I want to change the colour of a string in some styled text.
>> As the string may be any string like "font", "size", etc. that appear
>> in html tags,
>> I use the following code that works but I'm not satisfied with it...
>> Any more elegant solution?
>
> Yes, you can use regex:
>
>   put the htmlText of fld "Result" into tText
>   if matchChunk(tText,"(?s)<font.*?color=\"(.*?)\"",tStart,tEnd) then
>     put the uPatternColor of this stack into char tStart to tEnd of  
> tText
>   end if
>   set the htmlText of fld "Result" to tText

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software
Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/

From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Nov 17 16:03:21 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 22:03:21 +0100
Subject: Leading Zeros in Binary
In-Reply-To: <001501c5ebb8$248c2000$0a01a8c0@mobile1>
Message-ID: <20051117202409.4531E8251FD@mail.runrev.com>

that would be in the "format" or numberformat section...

sorry never tried... could work ;)

set the numberformat to "########" ...

or 

get format("%#####b", mynumber)
which seems to have more options...

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Camm29
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 21:48
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Leading Zeros in Binary
> 
> Help !!!! Please
> 
> When using baseConvert ("00FFFFFF" , 16 , 2) 
> 
> it returns 111111111111111111111111 
> 
> This is correct but i wish to keep the leading zeros for bit 
> manipulation
> 
> so i need the result to be ,
> 00000000111111111111111111111111
> 
> Kind Regards
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Nov 17 16:03:52 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:03:52 +0000
Subject: Leading Zeros in Binary
In-Reply-To: <001501c5ebb8$248c2000$0a01a8c0@mobile1>
References: <001501c5ebb8$248c2000$0a01a8c0@mobile1>
Message-ID: <437CF038.1090503@tweedly.net>

Camm29 wrote:

>Help !!!! Please
>
>When using baseConvert ("00FFFFFF" , 16 , 2) 
>
>it returns 111111111111111111111111 
>
>This is correct but i wish to keep the leading zeros for bit manipulation
>
>so i need the result to be ,
>00000000111111111111111111111111
>
>  
>
You can't do it directly in baseconvert (AFAIK), but you can use 
"format" to add leading 0s

put format("%032s", baseconvert("00FFFFFF", 16, 2))
    gives
00000000111111111111111111111111

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.2/170 - Release Date: 15/11/2005



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Nov 17 16:22:22 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 13:22:22 -0800
Subject: frappr map
References: 182021727.20051112084323@ahsoftware.net
Message-ID: <8813156347.20051117132222@ahsoftware.net>

sims-

Valletta is indeed on the frappr map. I just tested this by changing
my location to Valletta and back again (I modified Jacque's timewarp
stack to do spacewarping instead). Select "not in the U.S.", then type
"Valletta". Only one option comes up. Select it and change to the
satellite map view if you want to verify it.

http://www.frappr.com/runtimerevolution

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From alex at tweedly.net  Thu Nov 17 16:19:53 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:19:53 +0000
Subject: HTML issue
In-Reply-To: <280C45E5-F477-4374-BBA5-D20E64A737A1@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <280C45E5-F477-4374-BBA5-D20E64A737A1@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <437CF3F9.4040100@tweedly.net>

Eric Chatonet wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I want to change the colour of a string in some styled text.
> As the string may be any string like "font", "size", etc. that appear  
> in html tags,
> I use the following code that works but I'm not satisfied with it...
> Any more elegant solution?
> Thanks.
>
Some thoughts - to use on their own, or in combination - or not at all, 
since they are far short of "elegance"
In fact, you might feel these sacrifice elegance for speed - that's a 
habit of mine :-)

Basically what you are doing is
   a set of "replace"s to hide html tags
   the real replace
   a set of "replace"s to restore the html tags.

Thought 1. Simplify the 3rd set of replaces, by doing

  put numToChar(3) into c3
  replace "<font" with "<fo" & c3 & "nt" in tText
  replace "face=" with "fa"&c3&"ce=" in tText
  etc.    -- i.e. put a single c3 character into the middle of each html tag
  then do the real replace, and then
  replace c3 with empty in tText

Thought 2.  There is a speed optimization to replace a sub-string by 
another sub-string *of the same length*.
AND note that the tags to be replaced all contain either "e" or "o", so

 put numToChar(3) into c3  -- to replace o
 put numToChar(8) into c8  -- to replace e
 replace "<font" with "<f" & c3 & "nt" in tText
 replace "face=" with "fac" & c8 & "=" in tText
 replace "size=" with "siz" & c8 & "=" in tText
 etc.
 then do the real replace, and then
 replace c3 with "o" in tText
 replace c8 with "e" in tText


Thought 3. Use a list of replacements, in a script local variable.

local lReplacements = \
"<font" & comma & "<f" & c3 & "nt" & cr \
"face=" & comma & "fac" & c8 & "=" & cr \
"size=" & comma &"siz" & c8 & "=" & cr \
"color=" with "c" & c3 & "lor=" & cr \
"</font>" with "</f" & c3 & "nt>"

Then do
   repeat for each line L in lReplacements
      replace item 1 of L with item 2 of L in tText
   end repeat
   do the real replace
 replace c3 with "o" in tText
 replace c8 with "e" in tText


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.2/170 - Release Date: 15/11/2005



From Camm29 at tesco.net  Thu Nov 17 16:29:47 2005
From: Camm29 at tesco.net (Camm29)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:29:47 -0000
Subject: Leading Zeros in Binary
References: <20051117202409.4531E8251FD@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <004e01c5ebbe$0a3cd680$0a01a8c0@mobile1>

Great Thanks
format works great
Cheers
----- Original Message -----
From: "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu>
To: "'How to use Revolution'" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:03 PM
Subject: RE: Leading Zeros in Binary


> that would be in the "format" or numberformat section...
>
> sorry never tried... could work ;)
>
> set the numberformat to "########" ...
>
> or
>
> get format("%#####b", mynumber)
> which seems to have more options...
>
> cheers
> Xavier
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> > [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Camm29
> > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 21:48
> > To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Subject: Leading Zeros in Binary
> >
> > Help !!!! Please
> >
> > When using baseConvert ("00FFFFFF" , 16 , 2)
> >
> > it returns 111111111111111111111111
> >
> > This is correct but i wish to keep the leading zeros for bit
> > manipulation
> >
> > so i need the result to be ,
> > 00000000111111111111111111111111
> >
> > Kind Regards
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
> > your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From Camm29 at tesco.net  Thu Nov 17 16:30:08 2005
From: Camm29 at tesco.net (Camm29)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:30:08 -0000
Subject: Leading Zeros in Binary
References: <001501c5ebb8$248c2000$0a01a8c0@mobile1>
	<437CF038.1090503@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <005701c5ebbe$16e754a0$0a01a8c0@mobile1>

Perfect , Thanks

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Tweedly" <alex at tweedly.net>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: Leading Zeros in Binary


> Camm29 wrote:
>
> >Help !!!! Please
> >
> >When using baseConvert ("00FFFFFF" , 16 , 2)
> >
> >it returns 111111111111111111111111
> >
> >This is correct but i wish to keep the leading zeros for bit manipulation
> >
> >so i need the result to be ,
> >00000000111111111111111111111111
> >
> >
> >
> You can't do it directly in baseconvert (AFAIK), but you can use
> "format" to add leading 0s
>
> put format("%032s", baseconvert("00FFFFFF", 16, 2))
>     gives
> 00000000111111111111111111111111
>
> --
> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.2/170 - Release Date: 15/11/2005
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 17 16:28:34 2005
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 13:28:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: please avoid a cute noninformative Subject:
In-Reply-To: <20051117193524.EF55C82520B@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20051117212834.71562.qmail@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



--- MisterX <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:

> you can't judge a mail by it's subject 

please avoid a cute noninformative Subject:
thank you.

Erik Hansen

erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Nov 17 16:55:24 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 22:55:24 +0100
Subject: HTML issue
In-Reply-To: <437CF3F9.4040100@tweedly.net>
References: <280C45E5-F477-4374-BBA5-D20E64A737A1@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<437CF3F9.4040100@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <6BAED7E1-AFC2-4A76-AB16-3C7E337E56E0@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Alex,

Very interesting thoughts :-)
Above all about search and replace strings with the same length (I  
remember a thread about that lately).
But there is still a problem of security:
It's the user who specifies the string and he can specify fa (then he  
will be a musician :-) or nt (then will be an old Win man :-)
Another trick should be to allow only patterns with 3 chars or  
more... to ensure your solution ;-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 17 nov. 05 ? 22:19, Alex Tweedly a ?crit :

> Eric Chatonet wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I want to change the colour of a string in some styled text.
>> As the string may be any string like "font", "size", etc. that  
>> appear  in html tags,
>> I use the following code that works but I'm not satisfied with it...
>> Any more elegant solution?
>> Thanks.
>>
> Some thoughts - to use on their own, or in combination - or not at  
> all, since they are far short of "elegance"
> In fact, you might feel these sacrifice elegance for speed - that's  
> a habit of mine :-)
>
> Basically what you are doing is
>   a set of "replace"s to hide html tags
>   the real replace
>   a set of "replace"s to restore the html tags.
>
> Thought 1. Simplify the 3rd set of replaces, by doing
>
>  put numToChar(3) into c3
>  replace "<font" with "<fo" & c3 & "nt" in tText
>  replace "face=" with "fa"&c3&"ce=" in tText
>  etc.    -- i.e. put a single c3 character into the middle of each  
> html tag
>  then do the real replace, and then
>  replace c3 with empty in tText
>
> Thought 2.  There is a speed optimization to replace a sub-string  
> by another sub-string *of the same length*.
> AND note that the tags to be replaced all contain either "e" or  
> "o", so
>
> put numToChar(3) into c3  -- to replace o
> put numToChar(8) into c8  -- to replace e
> replace "<font" with "<f" & c3 & "nt" in tText
> replace "face=" with "fac" & c8 & "=" in tText
> replace "size=" with "siz" & c8 & "=" in tText
> etc.
> then do the real replace, and then
> replace c3 with "o" in tText
> replace c8 with "e" in tText
>
>
> Thought 3. Use a list of replacements, in a script local variable.
>
> local lReplacements = \
> "<font" & comma & "<f" & c3 & "nt" & cr \
> "face=" & comma & "fac" & c8 & "=" & cr \
> "size=" & comma &"siz" & c8 & "=" & cr \
> "color=" with "c" & c3 & "lor=" & cr \
> "</font>" with "</f" & c3 & "nt>"
>
> Then do
>   repeat for each line L in lReplacements
>      replace item 1 of L with item 2 of L in tText
>   end repeat
>   do the real replace
> replace c3 with "o" in tText
> replace c8 with "e" in tText
>
>
> -- 
> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Nov 17 17:25:16 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:25:16 -0600
Subject: HTML issue
In-Reply-To: <F0DDE601-F3BC-4098-B77E-00F81414AFCB@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <BFA25F6C.2FF38%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/17/05 2:52 PM, "Eric Chatonet" <eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com>
wrote:

> Hi Ken,
> 
> Thank you.
> Seems that your solution would change the first color definition that
> is already present in the html code.
> May be I misunderstand :-)
> In my case, first there are hundred of occurrences and second, they
> have not any color tag yet.

Oh, sorry - I thought you needed to change the color from one to another.
You could use a similar thing to find the <font> tag and then add "color" if
there isn't already one, but are you looking for a *fast* solution, or an
elegant one? It is more elegant with regex, but is slower because it needs
to work on each instance in the field individually. If you're interested in
this, let me know and I'll send it to you.


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From tominjapan at excite.com  Thu Nov 17 19:18:18 2005
From: tominjapan at excite.com (Thomas McCarthy)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 19:18:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: MP3 sound files in Rev
Message-ID: <20051118001818.9D35AB6B8@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com>


Paul,
This keeps popping up now and then. Perhaps it should be mentioned in the documentation.

MP3 files can be played with the player control on either Windows or Mac. Just set the filename of the player to the mp3 file you wish to play.

(your Windows system will need Microsoft Media Player version 6 or above installed--it shouldn't be a problem)

Also keep in mind the bug where the player's sound drops out towards the end. I think setting the player to visible solves it (move it off the viewable area to hide it)

Finally, you cannot record in mp3 or mp4 format--even though some interesting possiblities are presented to you when you look at the "Recording Formats" window. But you can record in wave format and then run a shell program to convert it to mp3.

cheers,
tm

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!




From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 19:20:17 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:20:17 +1000
Subject: frappr map
In-Reply-To: <8813156347.20051117132222@ahsoftware.net>
References: <8813156347.20051117132222@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511171620o3bb57592j4ada23496d4b1b32@mail.gmail.com>

> Valletta is indeed on the frappr map. I just tested this by changing
> my location to Valletta and back again (I modified Jacque's timewarp
> stack to do spacewarping instead). Select "not in the U.S.", then type
> "Valletta". Only one option comes up. Select it and change to the
> satellite map view if you want to verify it.
>
> http://www.frappr.com/runtimerevolution
>

And I just found that you can adjust your location directly. Outside
the US (or at least in Australia), you have to specify your city and
the marker is placed for you at some central location. If you then go
to your profile, you get the option of moving your marker around the
map. So if your city is not specified, choose a close one, and move
the marker afterwards.

Cheers,
Sarah


From darkshadow1 at metrocast.net  Thu Nov 17 19:38:18 2005
From: darkshadow1 at metrocast.net (Preston Shea)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 19:38:18 -0500
Subject: cascade & tile windows
Message-ID: <000801c5ebd8$5ef190c0$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>

Has anyone got functions to cascade or tile the windows of substacks opened from a mainstack? Thanks!

From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Thu Nov 17 20:22:33 2005
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 20:22:33 -0500
Subject: Database Connectivity Problems
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511162137y63a22fa1xe2dc7d3b1ee52b93@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b9d2f6acab2ede980d3c95daf2b6df25@fjrhome.net>
	<f99b52860511162137y63a22fa1xe2dc7d3b1ee52b93@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3fcfe32e6327190562ecb17c0881f975@fjrhome.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Aha!  What do you know, it's a BUG!

According to the docs, the "use SSL" field should be ignored unless 
connecting to MySQL.  I set it to be the hilite of button "checkbox 
name" (whatever I called it), which the interface disabled unless using 
MySQL, thinking that is what would happen, but lo and behold -- if I 
check that box and try again, now I'm connecting to port TRUE!!!!

Taking that part out of the code solves the problem.

bug 3232 (and counting...)

On Nov 17, 2005, at 12:37 AM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>> I'm back... finally!
> Hi Frank, good to hear from you again.
>
>> I'm trying to use the database APIs to connect to a PostgreSQL 
>> database
>> on the local machine and getting messages like:
>>
>>
>> could not connect to server: Can't assign requested address
>>         Is the server running on host "localhost" and accepting
>>         TCP/IP connections on port false?
>>
>>
>> Yes, port "false" -- that's when I don't specify a port!  when I do
>> specify the port, I get this:
>>
>> could not translate host name "localhost:5432" to
>> address: No address associated with nodename
>>
>
> Could you send the actual script you are using to make the connection?
> If you are using variables to specify the username, password &
> database name, can you get Rev to "put" the complete command before
> executing it, so you can be sure it is really working. Or perhaps
> hard-wire the data for test purposes to see if you can connect that
> way.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
- -----------------------------------------------------------
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <fde101 at fjrhome.net>

$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten 
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
everlasting life.
$
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFDfSza7aqtWrR9cZoRApBqAJsHIscGWtEloe8UaDcMUO6uCZcm0gCdGYsF
OvehT6hazj/7LjWSQ8spfVM=
=aM5w
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



___________________________________________________________
$0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
Signup at www.doteasy.com



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 20:37:11 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:37:11 +1000
Subject: Detecting Unicode text
Message-ID: <f99b52860511171737q4f8749b0pe11c976860d44b0f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

I have a utility that takes a text file saved by Apple's Mail, reads
it and processes it. The problem is that if there are any weird
characters in the original email, Mail saves it as UTF-16 (I think).
This opens fine in TextEdit, but in Rev, I get the characters all
spaced apart. e.g. instead of the email containing "Subject:", it
contains " S u b j e c t :  " which completely messes up all
subsequent processing.

If I UniDecode the text, it comes good except for a weird character at
the start which I can handle, but is there a neat way to detect the
encoding of text before I start? I suppose I can just look for the
word "Subject" and if it isn't there, uniDecode and try again, but it
seems there should be a way to detect the encoding of the text itself.

Does the weird stuff at the start give me any clues? Checking the
ASCII codes, the text starts with ASCII 254, ASCII 255, space and then
the first character of my text. Perhaps that's my answer, but will
they always be 254 & 255 or does that vary with the encoding?

Any ideas?

TIA,
Sarah


From macstacks at earthlink.net  Thu Nov 17 20:53:57 2005
From: macstacks at earthlink.net (Bruce A. Pokras)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 20:53:57 -0500
Subject: Downloading mystery
In-Reply-To: <1FC3BB46-343E-49B2-A229-A912B2F99DE2@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <a06110400bfa18dae2541@[192.168.1.102]>
	<1FC3BB46-343E-49B2-A229-A912B2F99DE2@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a06110401bfa2e1228578@[192.168.1.102]>

>On 17 Nov 2005, at 01:42, Bruce A. Pokras wrote:
>
>>I am trying to script the downloading of European patents from the 
>>European Patent Office's server. They provide a sample URL to use 
>>for that purpose, but instead of the patent, I instantly get a zero 
>>size file. I've tried it with and without URLencode. However, 
>>scriptiing with revGoURL works fine with the same URL to open the 
>>patent in my browser. Any ideas? The script I am using goes like 
>>this:
>>
>>on mouseup
>>put 
>>"https://publications.european-patent-office.org/PublicationServer/getpdf.jsp?cc=EP&pn=1502503&ki=A1" 
>>into theURL
>>    put URL theURL into URL "binfile:1502503.pdf"
>>end mouseup
>>
>>Could it be that Rev is allergic to JavaServer Pages? I hope not. 
>>Thanks for any help that you might be able to give.
>
><mauling_by_sheep>
>This is a plea, not just to Bruce, but to all of you who do things 
>like this, most of whom should know better.
>
>When you deal with URLs, especially internet URLs, things sometimes 
>go wrong. Often these things are outside of your control, such as 
>the network being busy, being given the wrong URL by your boss, your 
>ISP's data center being struck by an asteroid, or a dud hard drive.
>
>It's important that you check that things happen as expected. So 
>every time you make a url request, always (i.e. always) check "the 
>result".
>
>In the example above, there are two url requests in the same line. 
>So should you check the result twice? I'd say "yes". Something like 
>this:
>
>put URL theURL into theData
>put the result into theRes
>if theRes <> empty then
>   answer theRes ## or whatever you need to do
>else
>   put theData into URL "binfile:1502503.pdf"
>   put the result into theRes
>   if theRes is not empty then
>     answer theRes ## or whatever you need to do
>   else
>     ##carry on
>   end if
>end if
>
></mauling over>
>
>Apart from that, I think Ken's pointer to 
>"libURLSetSSLVerification" will probably work. This will mean that 
>you won't be able to authenticate the remote server. Perhaps OK for 
>the patent office, but probably not a good idea for doing bank 
>transactions. The alternative is to set the sslCertificates property 
>to an appropriate certificates file.
>
>Cheers
>Dave

Thanks, Dave, for the mauling. It was well deserved. However, I have 
been trying to get this to work over a period of several weeks. This 
was not a "try once and cry for help." This has been a long, drawn 
out bit of frustration. A couple of times I did throw "the result" 
into the script, but it was very un-enlightening. I also alternated 
using "revGoURL" with the same URL, and bingo, the patent showed up 
in Netscape.  So there were no issues with the EPO server at the 
times I was trying.

With that introduction, the "Result #1" (see below) shows the single 
word "error". Not very enlightening! I am using the following 
handler, if anyone wishes to try it:

on mouseUp
   libUrlSetSSLVerification false
   put 
"https://publications.european-patent-office.org/PublicationServer/getpdf.jsp?cc=EP&pn=1502502&ki=A1" 
into theURL
   put URL theURL into holdData
   put the result into theRes
   if theRes <> empty then
     answer "Result #1: " & theRes
   else
     put holdData into URL "binfile:1502503.pdf"
     put the result into theRes2
     if theRes2 <> empty then
       answer "Result #2: " & theRes2
     end if
   end if
end mouseUp

Again, if you substitute "revgourl theURL" in the appropriate place, 
you will have the patent showing up in your browser in no time 
(figuratively speaking, of course). Any hints for this problem would 
be appreciated!

Regards,

Bruce Pokras

From nuzoo2 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 17 21:29:29 2005
From: nuzoo2 at yahoo.com (Janus Jakaterina)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 18:29:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: mTropolis refugees
In-Reply-To: <158.5c601ee6.30add899@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20051118022929.23289.qmail@web50215.mail.yahoo.com>

First, thank you to the several people who responded.
I was led to this list by a comment from Heather Nagey
(Customer Support Manager. Runtime Revolution Ltd.) on
the mtropolis survivors list. Quark killed mTropolis
in 1998, but a survivors list still exists, even if
not very active, some seven years later. So what makes
a product worth following so long after its demise?  

mTropolis used a section, subsection, scene metaphor
(I understand Revolution uses a card metaphor and
Director uses a film metaphor). Every piece of media
is an asset. Drag modifier icons onto assets to give
them functionality, such as sending messages. Set the
parameters of a modifier with a window of pull-down
lists or fields. This concept of programming by
drag-and-drop icons is prevalent in Quickmedia
(http://www.omegaconcept.fr/index.php?oc=52), but what
set mTropolis apart was behaviors, basically
containers of modifiers that permitted complex actions
to be built up. A whole behavior could be switched on
or off or copied to other media (aliasing). Glen
Hunter does a good job of capturing the mTropolis
experience (see
http://www.cbd-hq.com/articles/2000/000501gh_mtropolis.asp):
a component-based development tool. The intuitive
interface and OOP power made development fast and --
get this -- fun.   

The mTropolis reference guide also set a standard. You
can d/l a copy (4.8 MB) at
http://www.arch.columbia.edu/DDL/cad/AOI/S99/basics/Reference.pdf
and the quick reference quide (260 kB) is at
http://www.arch.columbia.edu/DDL/cad/AOI/S99/basics/Quick_ref.pdf
.

That brings me to the present. Steve Goldberg, many
thanks for your thoughts. I just can't see behaviors
and aliasing in Revolution, however. Is it just an
interface thing or are they wrapped up in a whole
different architecture? Could a drag-and-drop
interface be made; has anybody tried? Doesn't
Revolution have a roll-your-own feeling with emphasis
on scripting rather than connecting components? 

With mTropolis I just dragged out my media and
modifiers and started snapping everything together.
With Revolution, well, I don't really know where to
begin. 

I seem to be suffering vertigo of the informational architecture.


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov 17 21:57:04 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 18:57:04 -0800
Subject: mTropolis refugees
In-Reply-To: <20051118022929.23289.qmail@web50215.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051118022929.23289.qmail@web50215.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <437D4300.3060603@fourthworld.com>

Janus Jakaterina wrote:
> Could a drag-and-drop interface be made; has anybody
> tried? Doesn't Revolution have a roll-your-own 
> feeling with emphasis on scripting rather than
> connecting components? 

Yes, compared to a drag-and-drop system Rev is much more akin to 
traditional procedural programming.

But it's fast enough and flexible enough to build such a UI, if only 
there were sufficient interest to warrant the effort (there's a Catch 22 
here: mTropolis having died suggests the market lies elsewhere, yet had 
mTropolis lived there would already be one and no need to build another 
<g>).

I've long had an offer that if someone wants to pay my bills for a few 
months I'd be happy to crank one out.  But getting a few extra months 
free here will be difficult for quite a while --  I wonder if some of 
the other readers here might be sufficiently intrigued to hack one out, 
perhaps as an open source project?

Never enough IDEs for this capable engine, IMO. Always one more workflow 
preference to cater to.   It sure would be fun to add RevTropolis to the 
mix. :)

> With Revolution, well, I don't really know where to
> begin. 

You might consider beginning here:
<http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences/>

Those downloadable stack files were put together in a joint effort 
between RunRev, Jacque Gay, and some of the most experienced scripters 
in this community.  They cover a broad range of topics -- pick one that 
sounds interesting, read the material, then another, and soon you'll 
have a good foundation.

And of course, there's no substitute for hands-on playtime. Make a 
stack, put some objects in it, add some scripts and see what happens....

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Nov 17 21:58:45 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 18:58:45 -0800
Subject: Detecting Unicode text
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511171737q4f8749b0pe11c976860d44b0f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f99b52860511171737q4f8749b0pe11c976860d44b0f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EB7D4A37-D588-403F-81DD-C567AD7DB8FA@mangomultimedia.com>

On Nov 17, 2005, at 5:37 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:
> If I UniDecode the text, it comes good except for a weird character at
> the start which I can handle, but is there a neat way to detect the
> encoding of text before I start? I suppose I can just look for the
> word "Subject" and if it isn't there, uniDecode and try again, but it
> seems there should be a way to detect the encoding of the text itself.
>
> Does the weird stuff at the start give me any clues? Checking the
> ASCII codes, the text starts with ASCII 254, ASCII 255, space and then
> the first character of my text. Perhaps that's my answer, but will
> they always be 254 & 255 or does that vary with the encoding?
>
> Any ideas?

Hi Sarah,

The "weird stuff" at the beginning is the BOM.  This tells  
applications opening the file what kind of UTF file you are dealing  
with.  Now, I'm not sure how to decipher each BOM but perhaps Google  
will know the answer.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From john at debraneys.com  Thu Nov 17 22:09:16 2005
From: john at debraneys.com (John Tregea)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 14:09:16 +1100
Subject: mTropolis Refugees
In-Reply-To: <p0621020bbfa20b8a00fa@[192.168.0.140]>
Message-ID: <200511180309.jAI39Ir1027191@mail25.syd.optusnet.com.au>

Hi Jesse,

I am heading back to Singapore in a few weeks (I lived there for ten years).
We are evaluating Revolution (and mySQL) at the moment to see if we should
transition our maritime security products to this pair instead of WebObjects
and OpenBase. 

Are you still involved in the programming side? I would be glad to hear your
experiences if you wouldn't mind meeting up and having a coffee sometime.

Regards

John T.

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Sng
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:30 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: RE: mTropolis Refugees

>I used mTropolis 2.0 for an interactive CD/ROM that was used to promote
>Singapore. We had QTVR's of Raffles hotel and other famous landmarks,
>quicktime video, stills, maps and most innovatively at that time live links
>to the updatable information on the web for hotel bookings and theme park
>availability etc. Oh, those were the days.
>
>What a fantastic product it was, and I still say "Damn Adobe and Quark" for
>killing it between them...
>
>Cheers
>
>John T

Hi John,

Interesting. I'm also in Singapore and we were looking at using the 
brand new (then) mTropolis 2.0. Anyway we got burnt by that and it 
took me many years before I got rid of the mTropolis box that was 
sitting on my shelf.


Jesse Sng
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Thu Nov 17 22:18:07 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 13:18:07 +1000
Subject: Detecting Unicode text
In-Reply-To: <EB7D4A37-D588-403F-81DD-C567AD7DB8FA@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <f99b52860511171737q4f8749b0pe11c976860d44b0f@mail.gmail.com>
	<EB7D4A37-D588-403F-81DD-C567AD7DB8FA@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511171918n3d007070yf36fea9e89b88f2c@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/18/05, Trevor DeVore <lists at mangomultimedia.com> wrote:
> On Nov 17, 2005, at 5:37 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:
> > If I UniDecode the text, it comes good except for a weird character at
> > the start which I can handle, but is there a neat way to detect the
> > encoding of text before I start? I suppose I can just look for the
> > word "Subject" and if it isn't there, uniDecode and try again, but it
> > seems there should be a way to detect the encoding of the text itself.
> >
> > Does the weird stuff at the start give me any clues? Checking the
> > ASCII codes, the text starts with ASCII 254, ASCII 255, space and then
> > the first character of my text. Perhaps that's my answer, but will
> > they always be 254 & 255 or does that vary with the encoding?
> >
> > Any ideas?
>
> Hi Sarah,
>
> The "weird stuff" at the beginning is the BOM.  This tells
> applications opening the file what kind of UTF file you are dealing
> with.  Now, I'm not sure how to decipher each BOM but perhaps Google
> will know the answer.
>

Thanks Trevor, that told me what to look for and provided the answer.
Here is a quote from <http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode4.0.0/>
book chapter 15.

"In the UTF-16 encoding scheme, U+FEFF at the very beginning of a file
or stream explicitly
signals the byte order.
The byte sequence <FE16 FF16> may serve as a signature to identify a
file as containing Uni-
code text. This sequence is exceedingly rare at the outset of text
files using other character
encodings, whether single- or multiple-byte, and therefore not likely
to be confused with
real text data."

So I think I can be quite safe if I look for charToNum(254) &
charToNum(255) at the start of a file and UniDecode the text if they
are found.

ATB,
Sarah


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Nov 17 23:58:15 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 05:58:15 +0100
Subject: Signatures and quoting
In-Reply-To: <91211FC9-94DD-4D79-8F0C-AEC2005D8C7C@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <20051118041857.012378251F9@mail.runrev.com>


> Le 17 nov. 05 ? 18:13, Richard Gaskin a ?crit :
> 
> > MisterX wrote:
> >> or your email client strips the sigs (TAOO CAN DO THIS :)
> >
> > So TAOO can also do that when emails are sent?
> 
> Not very kind but LOL
> As for me, unfortunately I don't have TAOO :-(

To answer Richard's question, sure, TAOO has pre and post processing for
user "data" objects (and more)... And since the late 80's! 

Came in very handy when HyperCard archived some thousands of emails/files
from Eudora/BBEdit/NetScape to HC stripping out the sigs, the lame content,
ads, etc... 

Helped also for pre-formating of data, posting data, sending or writing data
in or out of TAOO... I didn't just archive emails in TAOO, but code,
readmes, references, etc...

It helps reduce repetitive editing, stack/DB size a little and make the
reading (or IO) lots easier... It shouldn't be hard to adapt to spam
filtering or any other application that reads/writes/stores information for
that matter... 

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo



From katir at hindu.org  Fri Nov 18 00:50:58 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 19:50:58 -1000
Subject: Cmd-A doesn't work from Keyboard in Standalone
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511162138i54563acftf00c0b681197631@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65BD39E1-983A-4953-BE9E-5F557CCFF8DC@hindu.org>
	<f99b52860511161724ma2dd21doa7e06ed588a742a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<6A1C4696-C25E-437C-9617-785AD36163D0@hindu.org>
	<f99b52860511162138i54563acftf00c0b681197631@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51EFD827-703E-4EA4-BCA6-0826DDC97077@hindu.org>

Sarah: I send it up to support and Jacqueline writes... wonder of  
wonders -- something I haven't known for  years:

=====

Aloha, Jacqueline:

Outstanding! thank you... solutions... "Without either a real menu bar "

FYI, this I don't think is explicitely documented (thus my  
consternation over failing cmd keys for several years now...)

All it says is:

"* Putting the / character anywhere in a line makes the next  
character the keyboard equivalent for the menu item. Neither the /  
nor the character following it appear in the menu, nor do they appear  
in the parameter to the menuPick message.

And the tool tips for the Rev Tools all say "Popup menu" "pulldown  
menu" all imply a menu, and other feature of menus as described in  
"Menus and the Menu Bar" topics section *do* work just fine whether  
the button in a group that  is hoisted to menu status or not (e.g.  
cascading behavior) You might consider adding this that topic section  
*and* to each of the  keyword definitions for  Popup, pulldown and  
option buttons.

Thanks you I can now fix this :-)!

Sivakatirswami


On Nov 17, 2005, at 6:21 AM, Runtime Revolution Support wrote:
> Dear Sivakatirswami,
>
> The problem would be that you haven't designated the buttons as an  
> actual
> menu, so the engine is ignoring the keyboard shortcuts. Those will  
> only work
> if you set up a real menubar and assign it as the stack's menu. If  
> you do not
> want your menubar to go into the Mac's main menu area, then you can  
> set the
> editmenus to true on openstack so that the stack does not scroll
>
> Alternately, if you want to keep your layout the way it is now  
> without a real
> menu bar, write a commandKeyDown handler to manage command-key  
> presses.
> Without either a real menu bar or a commandkey handler, Rev has no  
> way of
> knowing what to do with those keyboard shortcuts so it ignores them.
>
> Jacqueline



On Nov 16, 2005, at 7:38 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> On 11/17/05, Sivakatirswami <katir at hindu.org> wrote:
>
>> I wish... (I found a blocking handler) but no... there is nothing in
>> the stack to block the key down msg. I'm also getting this in a
>> nother button with "Save/S"
>>
>> Case "Save"
>>    save this stack
>>     break
>>
>>
>> which appears fine in the menu, works fine from the menu, but doing
>> cmd-S from the keyboard does nothing... which, is scary because users
>> are thinking the app is being saved, but it's not...
>>
>> I could send the stack for testing if that would help, would that be
>> OK? (who would like to test it for me?)
>>
>>
>
> I'll give it a go, if you like to send it along.
>
> Sarah
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From katir at hindu.org  Fri Nov 18 01:22:52 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 20:22:52 -1000
Subject: Cmd-A doesn't work from Keyboard in Standalone
In-Reply-To: <2B703CEE-003A-49C7-B6D2-280BF696780F@conncoll.edu>
References: <65BD39E1-983A-4953-BE9E-5F557CCFF8DC@hindu.org>
	<f99b52860511161724ma2dd21doa7e06ed588a742a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<2B703CEE-003A-49C7-B6D2-280BF696780F@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <0656F2AE-42A9-40E3-AD01-A21D73C92F68@hindu.org>

WEll you can't block it in the IDE very easily.. but I found that if  
I had  just this:

on commandKeyDown theKey
   switch theKey
   case "a"
     if the selectedField is not empty then
       select text of the selectedField
     end if
     break
   end switch
end commandKeyDown

then cmd-x,c,v (copy, cut, paste) were all blocked... so I suspect if  
you have a commandKeyDown theKey  handler, and no "a" case, then it  
might get blocked, at least in a standalone. but then you have to  
code them all, which I did finally.


on commandKeyDown theKey
   switch theKey
   case "a"
     if the selectedField is not empty then
       select text of the selectedField
     end if
     break
   Case "x"
     if the selection is empty then exit to top
      cut
     break
   case "c"
       if the selection is empty then exit to top
       copy
     break
   case "v"
     paste
     break
   end switch
end commandKeyDown

Sivakatirswami




On Nov 16, 2005, at 4:29 PM, Charles Hartman wrote:

> I'm curious about this too, because I have found that *blocking*  
> cmd-A (= select all) in a field is very hard, meaning I haven't  
> found a way to do it. (So I had the opposite problem from the o.p.)  
> Oddly enough, cmd-C (= copy) seems also to work by itself, but I  
> found I had to write code to implement cmd-V (= paste). Puzzling.



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Nov 18 01:25:37 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 00:25:37 -0600
Subject: cascade & tile windows
In-Reply-To: <000801c5ebd8$5ef190c0$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
References: <000801c5ebd8$5ef190c0$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
Message-ID: <437D73E1.6060606@chipp.com>

You could check out altBuddyStack at:
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Downloads.htm

best,
Chipp

Preston Shea wrote:
> Has anyone got functions to cascade or tile the windows of substacks
> opened from a mainstack? Thanks!



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 01:29:29 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:29:29 +1000
Subject: Cmd-A doesn't work from Keyboard in Standalone
In-Reply-To: <0656F2AE-42A9-40E3-AD01-A21D73C92F68@hindu.org>
References: <65BD39E1-983A-4953-BE9E-5F557CCFF8DC@hindu.org>
	<f99b52860511161724ma2dd21doa7e06ed588a742a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<2B703CEE-003A-49C7-B6D2-280BF696780F@conncoll.edu>
	<0656F2AE-42A9-40E3-AD01-A21D73C92F68@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511172229r31092306k8419513a35be390a@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/18/05, Sivakatirswami <katir at hindu.org> wrote:
> WEll you can't block it in the IDE very easily.. but I found that if
> I had  just this:
>
> on commandKeyDown theKey
>    switch theKey
>    case "a"
>      if the selectedField is not empty then
>        select text of the selectedField
>      end if
>      break
>    end switch
> end commandKeyDown
>
> then cmd-x,c,v (copy, cut, paste) were all blocked... so I suspect if
> you have a commandKeyDown theKey  handler, and no "a" case, then it
> might get blocked, at least in a standalone. but then you have to
> code them all, which I did finally.
>

A better solution is to "pass" the message if you don't use it. I
would write your handler like this:

on commandKeyDown theKey
  switch theKey
  case "a"
    if the selectedField is not empty then
      select text of the selectedField
    end if
    break
  default
    pass commandKeyDown
  end switch
end commandKeyDown

This makes it so that ANY command key shortcut that doesn't get caught
in your switch statement, will get passed up the message hierarchy for
your app or the Rev engine to process. It is generally a good idea to
"pass" all system messages if you don't use them.

Cheers,
Sarah


From katir at hindu.org  Fri Nov 18 01:38:10 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 20:38:10 -1000
Subject: Cmd-A doesn't work from Keyboard in Standalone
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511172229r31092306k8419513a35be390a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65BD39E1-983A-4953-BE9E-5F557CCFF8DC@hindu.org>
	<f99b52860511161724ma2dd21doa7e06ed588a742a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<2B703CEE-003A-49C7-B6D2-280BF696780F@conncoll.edu>
	<0656F2AE-42A9-40E3-AD01-A21D73C92F68@hindu.org>
	<f99b52860511172229r31092306k8419513a35be390a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <23DD431B-E470-4890-A297-BFB61D9F3025@hindu.org>

Sarah, Thanks... though having done xTalk since '86, I'm not a "real"  
programmer...(open and Apple II booted it and ten minutes later write  
my first script in Hypercard)  so I don't always do things  
"properly".. whatever gets the job done (a beauty of Rev that it  
allows that much freedom!)

Sivakatirswami

On Nov 17, 2005, at 8:29 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>   default
>     pass commandKeyDown
>   end switch
> end commandKeyDown
>
> This makes it so that ANY command key shortcut that doesn't get caught
> in your switch statement, will get passed up the message hierarchy for
> your app or the Rev engine to process. It is generally a good idea to
> "pass" all system messages if you don't use them.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Nov 18 01:38:33 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 00:38:33 -0600
Subject: OT: AJAX 30-second tutorial
Message-ID: <437D76E9.4060501@chipp.com>

I know, OT, but since we've been bandying about it for so long now I 
thought some of you might like to see this.

For those of you wondering what the heck it is:
http://rajshekhar.net/blog/archives/85-Rasmus-30-second-AJAX-Tutorial.html

-Chipp



From dick.kriesel at mail.com  Fri Nov 18 01:51:05 2005
From: dick.kriesel at mail.com (Dick Kriesel)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 22:51:05 -0800
Subject: dictionary gibberish
Message-ID: <BFA2B9D9.14D8D%dick.kriesel@mail.com>

Somehow the dictionary's behavior changed so that it showed gibberish for
every term I tried.  Here's an example for the term "put."


put [[sMergeData[type] ]]  ([[sMergeData[library] ]])
[[sMergeData[synonym] ]]
Platform support: [[sMergeData[platforms] ]]
Introduced in version [[sMergeData[introduced] ]]
[[sMergeData[summary] ]]

[[sMergeData[syntax] ]]
[[sMergeData[example] ]]

See also: [[sMergeData[seealso] ]]

Description[[sMergeData[description] ]]


When I restarted Rev, the normal behavior was back.

Could anyone advise how to avoid this in the future?

-- Dick




From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Fri Nov 18 01:58:01 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 07:58:01 +0100
Subject: cascade & tile windows
In-Reply-To: <437D73E1.6060606@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <OF2C19D83B.2F990410-ONC12570BD.002571C7-C12570BD.00263E40@deutsche-boerse.com>

Chipp

AltBuddyStack doesn't seem to cascade or tile stacks though

[After more problems copy pasting...]

  Here's how to cascade stacks (taken from the plugin WinNO2 from 
MonsieurX.com):

    put 100 into rb -- start position
    put 100 into rl -- start position
      put the windows into wlist
      repeat for each line thisstack in wlist
        if not the visible of stack thisstack  or thisstack  is "message 
box" or "rev" is in char 1 to 3 of thisstack then next repeat
        add 16 to rb
        add 16 to rl
        set the topleft of stack l to rl,rb
      end repeat
 
That should get you started... Im revising the tiling/rearanging (vertical 
and horizontal or best fit) because they
are no longuer working... Something to do for this weekend ;)

cheers
---------------------=---------------------
Xavier 


use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 18/11/2005 07:25:37:

> You could check out altBuddyStack at:
> http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Downloads.htm
> 
> best,
> Chipp
> 
> Preston Shea wrote:
> > Has anyone got functions to cascade or tile the windows of substacks
> > opened from a mainstack? Thanks!



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From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Fri Nov 18 02:04:54 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:04:54 +0100
Subject: AW: HTML issue
In-Reply-To: <437CF3F9.4040100@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCMEJADMAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hello,

I was thinking along similar lines as Alex:

> 
> Basically what you are doing is
>    a set of "replace"s to hide html tags
>    the real replace
>    a set of "replace"s to restore the html tags.
> 

My procedure would be:

put numToChar(3) into sep
replace ">" with "<" & sep in tText
set the itemDelimiter to "<"
repeat for each item theItem in tText
  if char 1 of theItem is sep then
  -- do the actual replacement 
    replace pFind with "<font color=" & \
    quote & the uPatternColor of this stack & quote & \
    ">" & pFind & "</font>" in tText
  end if
end repeat
replace "<" & sep with ">" in tText
set the itemDelimiter to comma

I didn't test for speed though.

All the best
Thomas

--
Thomas Fischer
Salzburg 



From chipp at chipp.com  Fri Nov 18 02:17:06 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 01:17:06 -0600
Subject: cascade & tile windows
In-Reply-To: <OF2C19D83B.2F990410-ONC12570BD.002571C7-C12570BD.00263E40@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OF2C19D83B.2F990410-ONC12570BD.002571C7-C12570BD.00263E40@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <437D7FF2.1080304@chipp.com>



xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:
> Chipp
> 
> AltBuddyStack doesn't seem to cascade or tile stacks though

Yep, you're right, but it does have some good window management routines 
which could help someone move windows around.



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Fri Nov 18 02:28:29 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:28:29 +0100
Subject: cascade & tile windows
In-Reply-To: <437D7FF2.1080304@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <OFDC6E13DE.1154F785-ONC12570BD.0028BD7C-C12570BD.00290846@deutsche-boerse.com>

> Yep, you're right, but it does have some good window management routines 

> which could help someone move windows around.

i noticed that too ;)

I like the attach stack to stack idea ;)

I really like the snap to window too!

cheers
Xavier


> xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:
> > Chipp
> > 
> > AltBuddyStack doesn't seem to cascade or tile stacks though
> 
> Yep, you're right, but it does have some good window management routines 

> which could help someone move windows around.



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
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IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
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this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
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not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
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From jiro at ronri-kobo.com  Fri Nov 18 02:33:52 2005
From: jiro at ronri-kobo.com (Jiro Harada)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:33:52 +0900
Subject: [ANN] F-ab is now available for downloading
In-Reply-To: <1DF4C38F-B61E-44CD-9BFB-A9E9C27B2687@major-k.de>
References: <90CED763-8C2F-4242-816A-8DC79F20FFDB@ronri-kobo.com>
	<1DF4C38F-B61E-44CD-9BFB-A9E9C27B2687@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <39ADBFF0-CC75-4B32-8376-D1F6205E7549@ronri-kobo.com>

Herrn Klaus,

> Could you please tell us a bit more about how you did this?
> I am sure most of the listmembers would love to know a bit about the
> technical background.
>
> And most of us are VERY interested in displaying Flash content inside
> Rev without altBrowser and/or Quicktime! ;-)

The Flash Player.plugin, which is located in /Library/Internet Plug- 
Ins/, is directly loaded in the external. WebKit is not used in F-ab.  
Flash movies are displayed in the custom control. Other main  
functions of F-ab are written in Java including HTTP connection and  
DB connection. F-ab is using Derby(http://db.apache.org/derby/) as  
the internal database.


>> We have a plan to port this product to Windows.
>
> Maybe this can be done by using the wonderful "altBrowser" plugin  
> from Altuit?
>  http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altBrowserCover/default.htm

Thanks for your information. altBrowser is great!

Best regards,
Jiro Harada


On 2005/11/18, at 1:28, Klaus Major wrote:

> Konichi-wa Jiro-san,
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> "F-ab" is now available for downloading.
>> F-ab is a browser for Flash movies. Flash movies are switched by
>> changing the channel like TV programs in it. You can see 10000 Flash
>> movies by changing the channel from "0000" to "9999".
>>
>> F-ab was created by Revolution and Java.
>> This product is a freeware (not a open-source product).
>>
>> Download:
>> http://www.f-ab.net/
>>
>> System requirements:
>> OS: Mac OS X 10.4 or later
>> Memory: 512 MB of RAM or more
>> Display: 1024 x 768 or lager
>
> Yoku dekimashita! :-)
>
> Could you please tell us a bit more about how you did this?
> I am sure most of the listmembers would love to know a bit about the
> technical background.
>
> And most of us are VERY interested in displaying Flash content inside
> Rev without altBrowser and/or Quicktime! ;-)
>
>> We have a plan to port this product to Windows.
>
> Maybe this can be done by using the wonderful "altBrowser" plugin  
> from Altuit?
>  http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altBrowserCover/default.htm
>
> I may be a bit too naive, but at the first glance... ;-)
>
>> Currently few Flash
>> movies has registered in F-ab. Please register your Flash movies  
>> to F-
>> ab, if you use them in your web pages. Registration is free.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Jiro Harada
>> jiro at f-ab.net
>> ----------------------------------------
>> Ronri Kobo, Inc.
>> 806, 6-24-2, Nishi-Gotanda, Shinagawa-ku
>> Tokyo, 141-0031 Japan
>> IP Phone/Fax. +81 50 3346 0007
>> support at ronri-kobo.com
>> http://www.ronri-kobo.com/
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> http://www.major-k.de
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>




From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Fri Nov 18 02:59:42 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:59:42 +0100
Subject: AW: Downloading mystery
In-Reply-To: <a06110401bfa2e1228578@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCEEJDDMAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hi Bruce,

> Again, if you substitute "revgourl theURL" in the appropriate place, 
> you will have the patent showing up in your browser in no time 
> (figuratively speaking, of course). Any hints for this problem would 
> be appreciated!

this might be unrelated to Revolution. I had problems downloading pages using Perl, and finally gave the task over to lynx, the linux text browser.

The reason was that browsers are much better equipped to handle the communication between requests and delivery, primarily redirects and cookies. You might want to inspect the exchange between your browser on the one hand and Revolution on the other with the given site, probably you can see where the communication breaks down.
If you are using a Mac, you might try the download using AppleScript, that might work slightly differently.

All the best
Thomas

--
Thomas Fischer
Salzburg 




From mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk  Fri Nov 18 03:24:15 2005
From: mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:24:15 +0000
Subject: frappr map
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511171620o3bb57592j4ada23496d4b1b32@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8813156347.20051117132222@ahsoftware.net>
	<f99b52860511171620o3bb57592j4ada23496d4b1b32@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <437D8FAF.3050408@harbourhost.co.uk>

Sarah Reichelt wrote:
>>http://www.frappr.com/runtimerevolution
>>
> 
> 
> And I just found that you can adjust your location directly. Outside
> the US (or at least in Australia), you have to specify your city and
> the marker is placed for you at some central location. If you then go
> to your profile, you get the option of moving your marker around the
> map. So if your city is not specified, choose a close one, and move
> the marker afterwards.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sarah

I thought there had to be a way, thanks for pointing that out Sarah.

Frappr had located me by default in the Cambridge University Computing 
Department, which was flattering but I felt a bit out of my depth there 
to be honest.
Now I've moved a mile to the east into more appropriate premises.

Martin


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 18 04:03:58 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 01:03:58 -0800
Subject: Timeline and cudos since June?
In-Reply-To: <BFA0BD08.308D4%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BFA2D8FE.30A4A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Hi, everyone,

After all the volumes of mail and comments about the Rev team, I would like
to hear a few terse, concise, and pithy remarks from those in the know (I am
not one of them) that rate the progress since Monterey last June.  Many
commitments were made in good faith at the conference.  Hopefully most have
been met and more in the works.

I am very happy with 2.6.4 and Tiger on the Mac, but do not push any
envelopes.  My take is that the Rev team has really made a positive
difference in the last several months, compared to early Spring.

My hope is that there has been enough market response to encourage them to
continue the struggle.

??Dan, Jerry, Dar, Chipp, JLGay, Sarah, Richard, Scott, X, and so many
more...

Jim Ault
Las Vegas




From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Fri Nov 18 04:10:52 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:10:52 +0100
Subject: dictionary gibberish
In-Reply-To: <BFA2B9D9.14D8D%dick.kriesel@mail.com>
References: <BFA2B9D9.14D8D%dick.kriesel@mail.com>
Message-ID: <D57EB749-00FB-444A-80DA-C4FF3B8D016A@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Chris,

Just a temporary problem: What you see into brackets are xml tags  
that normally are replaced by their value.

Le 18 nov. 05 ? 07:51, Dick Kriesel a ?crit :

> Somehow the dictionary's behavior changed so that it showed  
> gibberish for
> every term I tried.  Here's an example for the term "put."
>
>
> put [[sMergeData[type] ]]  ([[sMergeData[library] ]])
> [[sMergeData[synonym] ]]
> Platform support: [[sMergeData[platforms] ]]
> Introduced in version [[sMergeData[introduced] ]]
> [[sMergeData[summary] ]]
>
> [[sMergeData[syntax] ]]
> [[sMergeData[example] ]]
>
> See also: [[sMergeData[seealso] ]]
>
> Description[[sMergeData[description] ]]

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Fri Nov 18 04:41:52 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 09:41:52 +0000
Subject: Downloading mystery
In-Reply-To: <a06110401bfa2e1228578@[192.168.1.102]>
References: <a06110400bfa18dae2541@[192.168.1.102]>
	<1FC3BB46-343E-49B2-A229-A912B2F99DE2@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<a06110401bfa2e1228578@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <C17F006B-8656-43AF-888E-5FF04BBAEE13@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 18 Nov 2005, at 01:53, Bruce A. Pokras wrote:
>
> Thanks, Dave, for the mauling. It was well deserved. However, I  
> have been trying to get this to work over a period of several  
> weeks. This was not a "try once and cry for help." This has been a  
> long, drawn out bit of frustration. A couple of times I did throw  
> "the result" into the script, but it was very un-enlightening. I  
> also alternated using "revGoURL" with the same URL, and bingo, the  
> patent showed up in Netscape.  So there were no issues with the EPO  
> server at the times I was trying.
>
> With that introduction, the "Result #1" (see below) shows the  
> single word "error". Not very enlightening! I am using the  
> following handler, if anyone wishes to try it:
>
> on mouseUp
>   libUrlSetSSLVerification false
>   put "https://publications.european-patent-office.org/ 
> PublicationServer/getpdf.jsp?cc=EP&pn=1502502&ki=A1" into theURL
>   put URL theURL into holdData
>   put the result into theRes
>   if theRes <> empty then
>     answer "Result #1: " & theRes
>   else
>     put holdData into URL "binfile:1502503.pdf"
>     put the result into theRes2
>     if theRes2 <> empty then
>       answer "Result #2: " & theRes2
>     end if
>   end if
> end mouseUp

Hi Bruce

The above worked here the first time I tried, and I got a nice patent  
application saved to a pdf file.

However, on subsequent attempts I had mixed results, the main problem  
being either a socket timeout or "redirection failed" result.   
Logging the data (libUrlSetLogField), I see that the redirecton  
failures were also socket timeouts.

Out of a browser, it worked initially, but at a later try I was  
getting redirected to a Search page. Is this in fact a "pay for"  
service, and they only let you download a few times for free?

The first response from the url request is a "redirection" response  
(302). By default, libUrl will try to redirect the request using the  
"Location" header in the response. However, I also saw that the first  
response had a Set-Cookie header like this:

Set-Cookie: JSESSIONID=8A03B947A0B4703A14FA776E904EE40F; Path=/ 
PublicationServer

I'm wondering if things would go better if  the cookie were returned  
in the redirected request. To do this, you'd need to handle the  
redirect yourself (libUrlFollowHttpRedirects false), get the remote  
server's headers (libUrlLastRHHeaders()), and extract the "Location:"  
and "Set-Cookie" headers. Then set the Cookie to return (set the  
httpHeaders to "Cookie: <something>") and then get the url extracted  
from the Location header.

I'm not sure whether you just return the Cookie as you received it  
(Cookie: JSESSIONID=8A03B947A0B4703A14FA776E904EE40F; Path=/ 
PublicationServer), or you have to set it differently. (perhaps  
someone can help.)

Whatever, it seems like the service has some kind of session control  
on it. Although whether this is a cause of the frequent timeouts is  
hard to say. (increasing the socketTimeoutInterval to 60000 didn't  
seem to have any effect.) Do you have any other information about how  
the service works?

Cheers
Dave




From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Nov 18 04:44:39 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:44:39 +0100
Subject: [ANN] F-ab is now available for downloading
In-Reply-To: <39ADBFF0-CC75-4B32-8376-D1F6205E7549@ronri-kobo.com>
References: <90CED763-8C2F-4242-816A-8DC79F20FFDB@ronri-kobo.com>
	<1DF4C38F-B61E-44CD-9BFB-A9E9C27B2687@major-k.de>
	<39ADBFF0-CC75-4B32-8376-D1F6205E7549@ronri-kobo.com>
Message-ID: <4C2F3113-B867-425E-AA4F-01241430CA0D@major-k.de>

Hi Jiro,

> Herrn Klaus,

Actually it is "Herr Klaus" or even better and complete "Guten Tag,  
Herr Klaus" :-)

>> Could you please tell us a bit more about how you did this?
>> I am sure most of the listmembers would love to know a bit about the
>> technical background.
>>
>> And most of us are VERY interested in displaying Flash content inside
>> Rev without altBrowser and/or Quicktime! ;-)
>
> The Flash Player.plugin, which is located in /Library/Internet Plug- 
> Ins/, is directly loaded in the external. WebKit is not used in F- 
> ab. Flash movies are displayed in the custom control. Other main  
> functions of F-ab are written in Java including HTTP connection and  
> DB connection. F-ab is using Derby(http://db.apache.org/derby/) as  
> the internal database.

Aha!
So the Flash browser-plugin is used directly. Very interesting!

This raises the possibility of a Rev "play Flash" external :-)
Or even the same thing WITHOUT an external.

>>> We have a plan to port this product to Windows.
>>
>> Maybe this can be done by using the wonderful "altBrowser" plugin  
>> from Altuit?
>>  http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altBrowserCover/default.htm
>
> Thanks for your information. altBrowser is great!

Glad i could help.

> Best regards,
> Jiro Harada

Sayonara

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From psahores at easynet.fr  Fri Nov 18 05:26:19 2005
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:26:19 +0100
Subject: OT: AJAX 30-second tutorial
In-Reply-To: <437D76E9.4060501@chipp.com>
References: <437D76E9.4060501@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <B2D70119-DCE5-4A4F-B61C-ED79C796F9DE@easynet.fr>

Dear Chipp,

Thanks. As always in programming tasks, AJAX will have to do with  
both great and well designed proposals (like the one you are relaying  
to us) one side and low and sad level coding on second side.

In about well designed, web application's front-ends, CSS2+AJAX+Blog  
tools are probably the most usefull we can get today. In about  
application's servers, Rev is certainly lots more powerfull and clean  
than any UML + Java's based Tomcat's or JBoss solution...

About the back-ends ? PostgreSQL, QTSS, MapServer...

Best Regards,

Le 18 nov. 05 ? 07:38, Chipp Walters a ?crit :

> I know, OT, but since we've been bandying about it for so long now  
> I thought some of you might like to see this.
>
> For those of you wondering what the heck it is:
> http://rajshekhar.net/blog/archives/85-Rasmus-30-second-AJAX- 
> Tutorial.html
>
> -Chipp
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr
sc+ at +sahores-conseil.com

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

<http://www.sahores-conseil.com/>

WEB/VoD/ACID-DB services over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"




From david at dvglasgow.wanadoo.co.uk  Fri Nov 18 05:30:24 2005
From: david at dvglasgow.wanadoo.co.uk (David Glasgow)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:30:24 +0000
Subject: mTropolis Refugees
In-Reply-To: <20051118060338.649F88252B3@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051118060338.649F88252B3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <0381671d89be626db45e1dc92fff89b1@dvglasgow.wanadoo.co.uk>


On 18 Nov 2005, at 6:03 am, Jesse Sng wrote:

> we were looking at using the
> brand new (then) mTropolis 2.0. Anyway we got burnt by that and it
> took me many years before I got rid of the mTropolis box that was
> sitting on my shelf.

Mine's still there! Funky chimney top hat and all.  Still got the 
goldfish tutorial, too.  And the bile still rises when I think about 
how I paid for it just before it was killed.

I had no idea anyone out there still uses it.  Has its cross platform 
performance been limited by newer versions of Windows?

I was also intrigued by the account of the mTropolis metaphor.  My 
recollection is that it was sold as being free of metaphors and this 
was a *Good Thing*.  As it happens, I am not convinced by that 
argument.  I could go on about why, but it would probably be too 
boring.

I switched to Hyperscript (before Transcript), and struggled for a 
short while before there was a 'ker-ching' moment.  I think this is 
when the metaphor becomes clear in your mind.  It doesn't mean you can 
make fast efficient code, or realise the full potential of the tool, 
but you can make an outline plan of possible alternative routes to 
achieve your goal.  Also, extensions to the metaphor have a place to be 
put.  So, for example when you realise the difference between groups 
and backgrounds, you get a happy feeling.

Oh dear, I did go on about metaphors.  Sorry, didn't mean to.

I have positive memories of mTroplolis, and look forward to 
contributions from top hatters, converts or no.


Best Wishes,

David Glasgow

http://www.i-psych.co.uk




From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Fri Nov 18 05:34:09 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:34:09 +0100
Subject: OT: AJAX 30-second tutorial
In-Reply-To: <B2D70119-DCE5-4A4F-B61C-ED79C796F9DE@easynet.fr>
Message-ID: <OF6D852AF7.1E801051-ONC12570BD.0039C9F1-C12570BD.003A07B4@deutsche-boerse.com>

OT but not tOTally...

Since this is part of the subject, im cooking some design architectures to 
make a kind of RevAjax
with TAOO - but only in rev and for rev ;)

And how surprised i was this morning when i clicked on Rev's AltBuddy 
stack link hoping it would ask
me to save it and instead it opened as a stack right away ;)) That was a 
welcome sign ;)

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 18/11/2005 11:26:19:

> Dear Chipp,
> 
> Thanks. As always in programming tasks, AJAX will have to do with 
> both great and well designed proposals (like the one you are relaying 
> to us) one side and low and sad level coding on second side.
> 
> In about well designed, web application's front-ends, CSS2+AJAX+Blog 
> tools are probably the most usefull we can get today. In about 
> application's servers, Rev is certainly lots more powerfull and clean 
> than any UML + Java's based Tomcat's or JBoss solution...
> 
> About the back-ends ? PostgreSQL, QTSS, MapServer...
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Le 18 nov. 05 ? 07:38, Chipp Walters a ?crit :
> 
> > I know, OT, but since we've been bandying about it for so long now 
> > I thought some of you might like to see this.
> >
> > For those of you wondering what the heck it is:
> > http://rajshekhar.net/blog/archives/85-Rasmus-30-second-AJAX- 
> > Tutorial.html
> >
> > -Chipp
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> 
> -- 
> Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
> 
> 100, rue de Paris
> F - 77140 Nemours
> 
> psahores+ at +easynet.fr
> sc+ at +sahores-conseil.com
> 
> GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
> Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
> Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
> 
> <http://www.sahores-conseil.com/>
> 
> WEB/VoD/ACID-DB services over IP
> "Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From david at openpartnership.net  Fri Nov 18 06:06:40 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 12:06:40 +0100
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <437BC64D.1000208@tweedly.net>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>	<E9963829-B5B2-47F2-B1F2-E4F9684D29F3@writeme.com>
	<34071EAB-D5AB-4ACA-85E2-6AC2B0326B0B@danshafer.com>
	<437BC64D.1000208@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <E74FDD7E-D8D8-47C5-8D7F-386CC963FAF1@openpartnership.net>

On 17 Nov 2005, at 00:52, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> I have good confidence in the sanctity of my laptop, so I'm happy  
> to use it, even over public wifi access, because all the traffic is  
> ssh-secured end-to-end. But using a web cafe, or kiosk, public  
> Internet access at a library, etc. all put me at risk; the  
> encryption happens *after* the data is out of my control. I can't  
> be sure there isn't a keylogger or similar there grabbing my password.
>
> [ I'm hoping someone will describe a secure way around this problem. ]

In my research I've only come across one reasonably good solution:

     1) HTTPS connection to web site.
     2) Open source Java applet with embedded minimal PGP
     3) Enter uid and password to regenerate your private and public  
PGP keys on local machine
     4) Use PGP encryption for communication and / or secure  
temporary local data storage.


From david at openpartnership.net  Fri Nov 18 07:01:26 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 13:01:26 +0100
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <AE60F684-2C4B-403C-A85D-9BD50BE214BF@danshafer.com>
References: <8A1C7830-09CC-4338-8E6B-AE382C0DFEBF@blueyonder.co.uk>	<4E0D8433-4DA3-4961-B224-1C60A0C37A5E@inspiredlogic.com>	<CDE7ED8E-959F-46EC-BCDD-718047D637D0@danshafer.com>	<41F500DC-1F1E-4DFF-A6F3-96676C3C1A6D@inspiredlogic.com>	<37D2407D-0172-4EA9-A269-3D922013C34A@danshafer.com>	<9CF650B5-399A-405D-A0FA-030DD663D897@inspiredlogic.com>	<E4C895C1-0F48-42EA-9420-23E90CA936BB@danshafer.com>	<C925C7DA-3C93-48B5-B88D-EDE65CAE1294@inspiredlogic.com>	<437BD25E.7090301@tweedly.net>
	<437BE535.6000601@chipp.com> <437BEE45.4090601@tweedly.net>
	<0C79A086-095F-43F9-9151-431AF4B09967@conncoll.edu>
	<AE60F684-2C4B-403C-A85D-9BD50BE214BF@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <941991E2-D98E-47D3-B102-4CE7C75081B1@openpartnership.net>

On 17 Nov 2005, at 04:46, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Pricing models will change. We'll see pay-per-use, pay-per-month,  
> pay-per-file, pay-per-K and other similar models. When it's not  
> necessary for the manufacturer to package, distribute, sell, track,  
> upgrade and otherwise deal with thousands and thousands of copies  
> of the software out there -- and when piracy becomes all but  
> extinct thanks to the new models -- software prices will dive while  
> profit margins remain high.

Can't help myself - irresistibly prodded.

This may get a little philosophical - so I keep it short.  
Centralisation of data is not only dangerous socially, but  
economically. We have game companies to thank for ubiquitous,  
powerful desktop machines. Natural business means diversity of  
processing and always processing data at the lowest possible level -  
higher levels of abstraction are necessary, but always slower and  
more expensive. Diversity of processing is not only more efficient,  
it drives down prices and provides a firm base for evolutionary  
growth of new technologies.

We now have dirt cheap ubiquitous processing and high capacity local  
storage - these things will keep being used, experimented with and  
many new application developed to make use of their capacity. The  
question is only how do the data and GUI processes that run on this  
cheap end user hardware fit more productively into a connected world.

Dan - your focus on thin clients over the other much more important  
issues regarding AJAX technology and web services is in my opinion a  
distraction. Make use of the local processor. Make use of the hard  
disk. Figure out how to author and make use of web services. Sort  
security. Sort data synchronisation to online storage.

> On Nov 16, 2005, at 9:43 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:
>
>> I don't believe that a "Web-Photoshop" would need to satisfy the  
>> digital photography professional (mapping professionals aren't  
>> using Google Maps !). I think to get a commercially successful web- 
>> based photography editing app you need to satisfy 75% of the  
>> population - who start out with 3-6M-pixel photos compressed down  
>> to 1/2Mb JPEGs, not the pros using 32Mb RAW images,.
>
>
> Is one implication that, in the brave new web-app world,  
> professional-grade applications -- because nobody but professionals  
> will be using them -- will get really, really expensive? Yes, many  
> are now; but many aren't.

There was a great project - French company that used server side  
image files which you could edit client side only sending the  
compressed changes back and forth - effectively allowing the  
manipulation of screen resolution images on your client machine to  
apply the right changes to the larger online image - swallowed by the  
same sort of merger process that killed mTroplois I believe.

A number of people are interested in the same for Video - edit your  
local low resolution copy on your laptop, have these changes render  
your videos on the server without taking up your own CPU cycles. Also  
some very mature open source projects now in the area of network  
processing - particularly 3D rendering. Summary - expect to slowly  
see a number of quality media related web services allowing you to  
process your heavy media files without requiring a G5.

But do not expect any of these interfaces to be in Internet Explorer  
- or anything resembling it. They will be made in something  
resembling Revolution. They almost certainly would be if Rev was open  
source - they will probably be made in something else if we and  
RunRev don't get where this is going.

Question: if you wanted to knock together a quick cross platform  
photo-editing application which used web services to upload the  
images and metadata to Flicr for instance - what language would you use?

Question: if you wanted to knock together a quick cross platform  
video-editting application for laptop journalists which used web  
services to upload the video clips and metadata to a mobile phone  
service for instance - what language would you use?

I for one would not use a browser - Java or no Java. If this changes  
- then it will be because the browser has become like Revolution and  
we will all be switching platform.


From tominjapan at excite.com  Fri Nov 18 07:16:48 2005
From: tominjapan at excite.com (Thomas McCarthy)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 07:16:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: One Laptop Per Child project
Message-ID: <20051118121648.1FB5C11E89@xprdmailfe8.nwk.excite.com>


Have you folks heard about this? Especially you ed people.
http://laptop.media.mit.edu/laptop-contact.html
Runs on Linux. Let's make some great freeware for it!

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!




From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Fri Nov 18 07:34:13 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 13:34:13 +0100
Subject: The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time
In-Reply-To: <E74FDD7E-D8D8-47C5-8D7F-386CC963FAF1@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <OFB2C070DD.AB8A4A8E-ONC12570BD.0044DB4A-C12570BD.004505FD@deutsche-boerse.com>

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 18/11/2005 12:06:40:

> On 17 Nov 2005, at 00:52, Alex Tweedly wrote:
> 
> > I have good confidence in the sanctity of my laptop, so I'm happy 
> > to use it, even over public wifi access, because all the traffic is 
> > ssh-secured end-to-end. But using a web cafe, or kiosk, public 
> > Internet access at a library, etc. all put me at risk; the 
> > encryption happens *after* the data is out of my control. I can't 
> > be sure there isn't a keylogger or similar there grabbing my password.
> >
> > [ I'm hoping someone will describe a secure way around this problem. ]
> 

Alex,

keyloggers can be fooled easily via copy-paste, or drag and drop... Use 
the keycaps to click-type your pword for example... There's plenty of 
ways ;) 

cheers
Xavier


-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
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this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
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From tkuypers at pandora.be  Fri Nov 18 07:36:03 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 13:36:03 +0100
Subject: Calling webservices from RR
Message-ID: <AF725177-81C9-4277-AB73-E876D36E0D4A@pandora.be>

Hi,

Has anyone experience with using Windows Webservices from within  
Revolution applications and interacting with them?
If not directly, maybe via altBrowser?

Before I start testing en getting specs from the developers of these  
Webservices, it would be nice to know if I can use them...

regards,

Ton Kuypers


From ale870 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 07:49:42 2005
From: ale870 at gmail.com (Alessandro Manotti)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 13:49:42 +0100
Subject: Calling webservices from RR
In-Reply-To: <AF725177-81C9-4277-AB73-E876D36E0D4A@pandora.be>
References: <AF725177-81C9-4277-AB73-E876D36E0D4A@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <f54296680511180449m377b18dfx67d2ba2e905039d6@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I had the same problem.
I search in internet, and everything I found was an unofficial stack
(it seems old...) to use soap.
So I reached this conclusion: I use RunRev power to manage xml (not
soap), then I create a jsp page (or javabean) in a Java server which
will act as a service broker. So the "hard job" will be done in the
server, then I send/receive data from/to RunRev in xml   :-)

Obviously, you can use any web server-language you wish (php, zope,
python, perl, etc...).






On 11/18/05, Ton Kuypers <tkuypers at pandora.be> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Has anyone experience with using Windows Webservices from within
> Revolution applications and interacting with them?
> If not directly, maybe via altBrowser?
>
> Before I start testing en getting specs from the developers of these
> Webservices, it would be nice to know if I can use them...
>
> regards,
>
> Ton Kuypers
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Fri Nov 18 08:47:23 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 14:47:23 +0100
Subject: Problem with group script
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCMEJODMAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hello,

I am working on the script of a group.
Every time I choose "Edit Group" I get the message
"The object you are editing appears to have been removed or deleted..."
with the option to copy the text or to close anyway.
Fortunately the script isn't really gone, but it is awkward nevertheless (e.g. for copying names of buttons into the script).
I also realized that when I edit a group there seems to be no way to edit the script (Object Script is greyed).
Is this a regular behaviour?

Thomas


--
Thomas Fischer
Salzburg 



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Fri Nov 18 08:57:49 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:57:49 -0500
Subject: Cmd-A doesn't work from Keyboard in Standalone
In-Reply-To: <0656F2AE-42A9-40E3-AD01-A21D73C92F68@hindu.org>
References: <65BD39E1-983A-4953-BE9E-5F557CCFF8DC@hindu.org>
	<f99b52860511161724ma2dd21doa7e06ed588a742a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<2B703CEE-003A-49C7-B6D2-280BF696780F@conncoll.edu>
	<0656F2AE-42A9-40E3-AD01-A21D73C92F68@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <CD26034B-2EB4-453C-9A10-1006F1513CF9@conncoll.edu>


On Nov 18, 2005, at 1:22 AM, Sivakatirswami wrote:

> WEll you can't block it in the IDE very easily.. but I found that  
> if I had  just this:
>
> on commandKeyDown theKey
>   switch theKey
>   case "a"
>     if the selectedField is not empty then
>       select text of the selectedField
>     end if
>     break
>   end switch
> end commandKeyDown
>
> then cmd-x,c,v (copy, cut, paste) were all blocked...

But this handler may not be doing anything, if it is in the script  
for a field, because it duplicates the default behavior.

I think I have figured out for sure (?) that a commandKeyDown handler  
in the script for a field will not capture, block, or divert a cmd-A  
pressed when that field has the focus. I tried this, so as to make  
cmd-A simulate a particular button-press in a context where selecting  
all the items in a field did not make any sense.

The only way I could find is to use a rawKeyDown handler, with a test  
inside it for "if the commandKey is down", and a switch inside that.  
This means that if cmd-A is supposed to do the same thing when the  
focus is outside the field, I also need a commandKeyDown handler one  
level up, in the card or stack script, which does the same thing.

So commandKeyDown works outside the field, but only rawKeyDown works  
inside the field.

I'd really like to know if I've got something wrong about this.

Charles Hartman



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Fri Nov 18 09:05:41 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 15:05:41 +0100
Subject: Problem with group script
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCMEJODMAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <OFAD2AFC7F.016785B9-ONC12570BD.004C7B31-C12570BD.004D6573@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Thomas

Unfortunately yes, it's is normal behavior i've complained about for 5 
years... 
Anyone else annoyed by it? Sure... The reason it's not fixed is probably 
highly
technical but i have hope they find a way one day...

The trick is to create your group and:
- use the context menu to paste into the group for single objects
- edit the group to paste multiple objects - or they will not appear in 
the right order (another issue)
- set the loclocation to true when necessary or your group may more around 
if the controls inside move too...

It's important to lock the location of the group if you do not have 
controls that delimit the bounds of the group's rect.

If you have to edit a group and you have out-of-that-group scripts (even 
the group's script), just keep the mouse
out of those windows or you'll get that error message...

to edit controls or the group:

- see the button in the revmenubar called "group select"... Very very 
useful... It allows to select either the group or
it's components. 
- Use the "select group" (the group is selected as one) when you need to 
edit the group's rect or script or props.
- Use the other method for the rest. That way you never get that message - 
missing controls... 

Once you grasp how these "select group" modes work, you'll love it...

Note that when you edit the group, you can't do a lot of things, so it's 
best to stay out of that mode unless really
necessary (like editing groups in groups)... 

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 18/11/2005 14:47:23:

> Hello,
> 
> I am working on the script of a group.
> Every time I choose "Edit Group" I get the message
> "The object you are editing appears to have been removed or deleted..."
> with the option to copy the text or to close anyway.
> Fortunately the script isn't really gone, but it is awkward 
> nevertheless (e.g. for copying names of buttons into the script).
> I also realized that when I edit a group there seems to be no way to
> edit the script (Object Script is greyed).
> Is this a regular behaviour?
> 
> Thomas
> 
> 
> --
> Thomas Fischer
> Salzburg 



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From rev at armbase.com  Fri Nov 18 09:14:53 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 14:14:53 +0000
Subject: One Laptop Per Child project
In-Reply-To: <20051118121648.1FB5C11E89@xprdmailfe8.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20051118121648.1FB5C11E89@xprdmailfe8.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <20051118141453.db2g0pk18oswscwc@webmail.armbase.com>

Quoting Thomas McCarthy <tominjapan at excite.com>:

>
> Have you folks heard about this? Especially you ed people.
> http://laptop.media.mit.edu/laptop-contact.html
> Runs on Linux. Let's make some great freeware for it!
>
>

THere was a project a few years ago that tried to use RISC OS (stalled because
the ARM9 was 32 bit instead of 26/32bit) but then made a solar powered desktop
ARM9 computer for Affrican countries (actually anywhere but htey concentrated
on Africa)

http://www.explan.co.uk/solo/index.shtml

Cheers
Bob



From psahores at easynet.fr  Fri Nov 18 09:28:32 2005
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 15:28:32 +0100
Subject: One Laptop Per Child project
In-Reply-To: <20051118141453.db2g0pk18oswscwc@webmail.armbase.com>
References: <20051118121648.1FB5C11E89@xprdmailfe8.nwk.excite.com>
	<20051118141453.db2g0pk18oswscwc@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <6A319CFD-50E4-4847-8C7B-34B717E24C67@easynet.fr>

Has been presented this week again at the Tunisian United Nations e- 
Information Worldwide Conference (sorry for the french spoken issue) :

<http://solutions.journaldunet.com/actualite/depeche/28/112305/ 
le_prototype_d_un_ordinateur_portable_a_100_dollars_presente_a_tunis.sht 
ml>

Best,

Le 18 nov. 05 ? 15:14, rev at armbase.com a ?crit :

> Quoting Thomas McCarthy <tominjapan at excite.com>:
>
>>
>> Have you folks heard about this? Especially you ed people.
>> http://laptop.media.mit.edu/laptop-contact.html
>> Runs on Linux. Let's make some great freeware for it!
>>
>>
>
> THere was a project a few years ago that tried to use RISC OS  
> (stalled because
> the ARM9 was 32 bit instead of 26/32bit) but then made a solar  
> powered desktop
> ARM9 computer for Affrican countries (actually anywhere but htey  
> concentrated
> on Africa)
>
> http://www.explan.co.uk/solo/index.shtml
>
> Cheers
> Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr
sc+ at +sahores-conseil.com

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

<http://www.sahores-conseil.com/>

WEB/VoD/ACID-DB services over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"




From nicolas_cueto at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 18 10:07:35 2005
From: nicolas_cueto at yahoo.com (Nicolas Cueto)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 00:07:35 +0900
Subject: disable command 
References: <19FA5CAA-55AD-11DA-97A8-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <037401c5ec51$d0109160$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb>

An hour or two of debugging but...

My card has 16 images, each with
a mouseUp script. I only want one
script to run at a time. So, within
the mouseUp script of each image
I added calls to lock/unlock handlers
contained in the card script, i.e.,

==== START OF SCRIPT
-- image's script
on mouseUp
  lockMaze
  -- do some other stuff
  unlockMaze
end mouseUp

-- card's script
on lockMaze
  repeat with i = 1 to 16
    disable image i
   end repeat
end lockMaze

-- also in card's script
on unlockMaze
   repeat with i = 1 to 16
     enable image i
   end repeat
end unlockMaze
===== END OF SCRIPT

However, even though I thought
this'd disable all the images, they
remain clickable.

My guess? Because I'm disabling
all 16 images, which includes the image
that should be running, this is somehow
interfering.

If so, what's a way of preventing the
mouseUp scripts of the other images
from being activated?

Thanks.

--
Nicolas Cueto
can still click on the other images'
During testing,
I was surprised to discover that,
after clicking on one image, I could
still click on other images. So, I
added a Showing on a card are 16 images,
each with a mouseUp script. And
even though
prevent more than one image's mouseUp
handler while another's is still running,
the image that is running while another's
is already
prevent the other images from
running when one has been clicked,
IWhen
one image has been clicked and its
mouseUp handler is in process, to
prevent other
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Malte Brill" <revolution at derbrill.de>
To: <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: maze wall algorithm


> Hi Nicolas,
>
>  >If given a maze in the form of a
>  >grid such as this...
>
> Adding to Scotts suggestions I have a few questions.
>
> Will the maze be hard coded or does it change randomly?
> Do you want to move through the grid cell by cell (to the center of
> each cell) or do you want to be able to move to any possible loc in
the
> cell?
> Is the object that moves through the maze steered by the user (hero)
or
> by script (enemy)?
>
> All the best,
>
> Malte
>
> ---
> ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes
> http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine
> http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Nov 18 10:29:39 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 09:29:39 -0600
Subject: Cmd-A doesn't work from Keyboard in Standalone
In-Reply-To: <CD26034B-2EB4-453C-9A10-1006F1513CF9@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <BFA34F83.2FFF6%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/18/05 7:57 AM, "Charles Hartman" <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu> wrote:

> So commandKeyDown works outside the field, but only rawKeyDown works
> inside the field.
> 
> I'd really like to know if I've got something wrong about this.

Charles, that's not what I'm getting... I created a simple stack with two
fields - the script of field 1 is:

on rawKeyDown pKey
  put the commandKey into tCmd
  put "DOWN:" && pKey && tCmd & cr after fld 2
  pass rawKeyDown
end rawKeyDown

on rawKeyUp pKey
  put the commandKey into tCmd
  put "UP:" && pKey && tCmd & cr after fld 2
  pass rawKeyUp
end rawKeyUp

on commandKeyDown pKey
  put "FIELD Command Down:" && pKey & cr after fld 2
  pass commandKeyDown
end commandKeyDown

And the script of the card was:

on commandKeyDown pKey
  put "CARD Command Down:" && pKey & cr after fld 2
  pass commandKeyDown
end commandKeyDown

I put the insertion point into the first field and typed "Command-A" and got
this in field 2:

DOWN: 97 down
FIELD Command Down: a
CARD Command Down: a
UP: 97 down

This was in Mac OS X 10.3.9; haven't tested it in Windows... are you getting
the same thing on your end?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Fri Nov 18 10:47:16 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:47:16 +0100
Subject: Timeline and cudos since June?
In-Reply-To: <BFA2D8FE.30A4A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <OF30F1B408.7DFE5395-ONC12570BD.0034214F-C12570BD.0056B284@deutsche-boerse.com>

Jim,

My favorite subject ;)

I think there's been a real improvement in Rev.

Bugzillas have been aknowledged significantly and best of all fixed in the 
best cases.
Although since 2.6.1's release this seems to have stopped - Mark surely is 
taking a well
deserved rest i hope ;)

Now, the 2.6.1 release really deserves praise - since i first started with 
Rev, it has been
a long wait to see 1) bugzilla support, 2) the fixes... And 2.6.1 finally 
delivered those...

The bad news:

Rev on windows is still far far from perfect - but it works (but not 
without as Richard said
"requiring explicit effort from the developer" - and then there
is clipboard, menu hotkeys, htmltext translation issues which 
are a patience test each time they fail to work as graphic 
applications do since 1984 or since html exists.

And where is color cursor support? Im still amazed that doesn't 
come for this so very capable "multimedia application"... 

These last issues and some other issues persist to cause issues for
some 5 years (one recently mentioned with editing groups...)

But i renewed my license a 2nd time because the update was worth it -
finally, for once... They sure did a good job and i encourage them 
to continue the effort! Although that would mean i'd have to stop
complaining ;)

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 18/11/2005 10:03:58:

> Hi, everyone,
> 
> After all the volumes of mail and comments about the Rev team, I would 
like
> to hear a few terse, concise, and pithy remarks from those in the know 
(I am
> not one of them) that rate the progress since Monterey last June.  Many
> commitments were made in good faith at the conference.  Hopefully most 
have
> been met and more in the works.
> 
> I am very happy with 2.6.4 and Tiger on the Mac, but do not push any
> envelopes.  My take is that the Rev team has really made a positive
> difference in the last several months, compared to early Spring.
> 
> My hope is that there has been enough market response to encourage them 
to
> continue the struggle.
> 
> ??Dan, Jerry, Dar, Chipp, JLGay, Sarah, Richard, Scott, X, and so many
> more...
> 
> Jim Ault
> Las Vegas
> 


-----------------------------------------
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From klaus at major-k.de  Fri Nov 18 11:13:39 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:13:39 +0100
Subject: disable command 
In-Reply-To: <037401c5ec51$d0109160$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb>
References: <19FA5CAA-55AD-11DA-97A8-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
	<037401c5ec51$d0109160$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb>
Message-ID: <AC21F4A1-000B-42BC-831E-69280AF7628D@major-k.de>

Hi Nicolas

> An hour or two of debugging but...
>
> My card has 16 images, each with
> a mouseUp script. I only want one
> script to run at a time. So, within
> the mouseUp script of each image
> I added calls to lock/unlock handlers
> contained in the card script, i.e.,

Maybe using a global flag would help?
If yes this would require only a "mouseup" handler :-)

> ==== START OF SCRIPT
> -- image's script
> on mouseUp
> ...
> end unlockMaze
> ===== END OF SCRIPT
> However, even though I thought
> this'd disable all the images, they
> remain clickable.
>
> My guess? Because I'm disabling
> all 16 images, which includes the image
> that should be running, this is somehow
> interfering.

Strange but possible...

> If so, what's a way of preventing the
> mouseUp scripts of the other images
> from being activated?

Try this:

-- image's script
on mouseup
   global prevent_click
   ## should be set to "false" at startup
   if prevent_click = false then
     put true into prevent_click
     ## prevent click :-)
     do some other stuff
     ## after some other stuff has finished
     put false into prevent_click
   end if
end mouseup

No need to disable the images.

Hope that helps.

> Thanks.

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Fri Nov 18 11:04:02 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:04:02 -0500
Subject: Timeline and cudos since June?
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A996835E@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

>Although that would mean i'd have to stop
>complaining ;)

>cheers
>Xavier

I think perhaps your complaints actually produce results...

So please don't stop!

More cheers,

Jonathan



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Fri Nov 18 11:21:49 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:21:49 -0500
Subject: Cmd-A doesn't work from Keyboard in Standalone
In-Reply-To: <BFA34F83.2FFF6%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BFA34F83.2FFF6%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <1A4D50E2-4D64-4382-A01B-9FB5001F4A5A@conncoll.edu>

No, that isn't what I get in fact! How curious. I think I constructed  
the test stack exactly as you describe. (I copied-and-pasted your  
field and card scripts.) When I put the insertion point in field 1  
and press cmd-A I get the "DOWN?" and "UP?" outputs, but I do not get  
either the "FIELD?" or the "CARD?" outputs. When I put the insertion  
point outside the fields, cmd-A yields the "CARD?" result (and a  
system alert sound--why?). When I put the insertion point inside  
field 2, all the text in field 2 gets selected.

This is with OS 10.4.3, Rev (Dreamcard) 2.6.1 build 152.

Here's another experiment: Make a simple stack containing a scrolling  
list field and a button called "myCmdAbtn". The script for that button:
		on mouseUp
		    answer "myCmdAbtn got a press"
		end mouseUp
The scrolling-list field's script:
		on commandKeyDown theKey
		    switch (theKey)
		    case "a"
		        pressTheKey
		        break
		    end switch
		end commandKeyDown
The stack script:
		on commandKeyDown theKey
		    switch (theKey)
		    case "a"
		        send mouseUp to btn "myCmdAbtn"
		        break
		    end switch
		end commandKeyDown

On my system, pressing cmd-A when the insertion point is not inside  
the field produces the 'answer' dialog, but pressing cmd-A when the  
insertion point is inside the field selects all the items (default  
'Choice 1', 'Choice 2', 'Choice 3') in the field.

This is why, to get a cmd-A from inside the field to "press the  
button", I found I had to put a rawKeyDown handler in the field's  
script, plus a (mostly redundant) commandKeyDown handler in the stack  
script in case the user happens to have clicked outside the field and  
so put the insertion point outside it.

Am I missing something? Or is there a change between OS X versions?  
Or what?

Confused,
Charles


On Nov 18, 2005, at 10:29 AM, Ken Ray wrote:

> On 11/18/05 7:57 AM, "Charles Hartman"  
> <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu> wrote:
>
>> So commandKeyDown works outside the field, but only rawKeyDown works
>> inside the field.
>>
>> I'd really like to know if I've got something wrong about this.
>
> Charles, that's not what I'm getting... I created a simple stack  
> with two
> fields - the script of field 1 is:
>
> on rawKeyDown pKey
>   put the commandKey into tCmd
>   put "DOWN:" && pKey && tCmd & cr after fld 2
>   pass rawKeyDown
> end rawKeyDown
>
> on rawKeyUp pKey
>   put the commandKey into tCmd
>   put "UP:" && pKey && tCmd & cr after fld 2
>   pass rawKeyUp
> end rawKeyUp
>
> on commandKeyDown pKey
>   put "FIELD Command Down:" && pKey & cr after fld 2
>   pass commandKeyDown
> end commandKeyDown
>
> And the script of the card was:
>
> on commandKeyDown pKey
>   put "CARD Command Down:" && pKey & cr after fld 2
>   pass commandKeyDown
> end commandKeyDown
>
> I put the insertion point into the first field and typed "Command- 
> A" and got
> this in field 2:
>
> DOWN: 97 down
> FIELD Command Down: a
> CARD Command Down: a
> UP: 97 down
>
> This was in Mac OS X 10.3.9; haven't tested it in Windows... are  
> you getting
> the same thing on your end?
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Fri Nov 18 11:33:19 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:33:19 -0500
Subject: keycodes??
Message-ID: <1BD42470-9170-499A-A8BA-BBA18AD4A4EA@conncoll.edu>

Sometimes I need to use rawKeyDown handlers, which receive a keyCode  
parameter. Two questions: is there a table of these somewhere? and,  
are these cross-platform? (If I have to use two tables, and wrap  
everything in an "if platform" structure, I'm going to be very sad.)

Charles Hartman



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Nov 18 12:16:51 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:16:51 -0600
Subject: disable command
In-Reply-To: <037401c5ec51$d0109160$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb>
References: <19FA5CAA-55AD-11DA-97A8-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
	<037401c5ec51$d0109160$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb>
Message-ID: <437E0C83.8030707@hyperactivesw.com>

Nicolas Cueto wrote:
> An hour or two of debugging but...
> 
> My card has 16 images, each with
> a mouseUp script. I only want one
> script to run at a time. So, within
> the mouseUp script of each image
> I added calls to lock/unlock handlers
> contained in the card script, i.e.,

I don't think I would do it this way. Instead, I would put a single 
"mouseup" handler in the card script and test for "the target".  Name 
each image consistently, for example, "mazeImg1", "mazeImg2", etc. Then 
you can do something like this:

on mouseUp
  if the short name of the target contains "mazeImg"
  then send "doMazeStuff" to the target
  else pass mouseUp
end mouseUp

Each image would have a handler called "doMazeStuff" that controls its 
behavior -- just like what your mouseUp handlers are doing now.

If a user clicks on several images in order, their scripts will run 
sequentiallly, so that shouldn't be a problem, right?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Nov 18 12:27:27 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:27:27 -0600
Subject: Problem with group script
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCMEJODMAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
References: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCMEJODMAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <437E0EFF.3050808@hyperactivesw.com>

Thomas Fischer wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am working on the script of a group.
> Every time I choose "Edit Group" I get the message
> "The object you are editing appears to have been removed or deleted..."
> with the option to copy the text or to close anyway.
> Fortunately the script isn't really gone, but it is awkward nevertheless (e.g. for copying names of buttons into the script).
> I also realized that when I edit a group there seems to be no way to edit the script (Object Script is greyed).
> Is this a regular behaviour?

Rev (and MetaCard before it) has to do some convolutions to edit groups. 
To edit a group, Rev makes a sort of "fake card" and puts only the group 
objects on it. The group itself is temporarily suspended and doesn't 
exist quite the way it did before. Since the objects have been "moved" 
to an editing area, the group isn't really there and there is no group 
script. You have to leave editing mode to get the group object back in 
order to work with the script.

MetaCard was marginally less opaque about this in its IDE. For example, 
if you try to edit a card script while you are in group edit mode, MC 
gives you an empty script editor with nothing in it except a commented 
line that says something like "This is not really the card script! Your 
changes will not be saved!" That's because the so-called "card" was a 
temporary construct created exclusively for the purpose of editing group 
objects. Once you leave group edit mode, the temporary "card" goes away 
and your real ones come back.

Think of group editing as a brief excursion to another place, a 
temporary editing arena that can only access the objects that are 
contained within the group itself. To get back to your regular stack and 
object hierarchy, leave edit mode.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Nov 18 12:52:02 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 09:52:02 -0800
Subject: Timeline and cudos since June?
In-Reply-To: <BFA2D8FE.30A4A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
References: <BFA2D8FE.30A4A%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <437E14C2.60200@fourthworld.com>

Jim Ault wrote:
> After all the volumes of mail and comments about the Rev team, I would like
> to hear a few terse, concise, and pithy remarks from those in the know (I am
> not one of them) that rate the progress since Monterey last June.  Many
> commitments were made in good faith at the conference.  Hopefully most have
> been met and more in the works.

One could break down the positions presented by RunRev at Monterey into 
two groups:

- an earnest interest in fixing bugs
- some proprietary feature proposals presented with the understanding
   that they were under non-disclosure.

Version 2.6.1 demonstrates a strong effort on the former, with several 
dozen bugs squashed (70+?) and a couple of nifty "feature completion" 
enhancements.

The latter cannot be commented on here, of course.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Nov 18 12:58:21 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 09:58:21 -0800
Subject: OT: AJAX 30-second tutorial
In-Reply-To: <437D76E9.4060501@chipp.com>
References: <437D76E9.4060501@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <525D7F56-738A-4ABB-9894-690F51C9F9B0@danshafer.com>

Good pointer, Chipp. Thanks.

AJAX is definitely simple in its essence. It's the widgety stuff that  
gets complex, but with several good to great AJAX libs already  
circulating, there's no need to roll your own with *that* complicated  
stuff.

Still scrubbin' (with appropriate apologies to Dave Winer and the  
Foaming Cleanser people)
Dan

On Nov 17, 2005, at 10:38 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> I know, OT, but since we've been bandying about it for so long now  
> I thought some of you might like to see this.
>
> For those of you wondering what the heck it is:
> http://rajshekhar.net/blog/archives/85-Rasmus-30-second-AJAX- 
> Tutorial.html
>
> -Chipp
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Fri Nov 18 13:04:55 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:04:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: One Laptop Per Child project
In-Reply-To: <20051118121648.1FB5C11E89@xprdmailfe8.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511180948490.28772-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Yeah, I've seen it bandied about on the Newton list as well as on MacNN.
I think it's based on something like a 333 MHz G3 processor (or analog)...
Apple offered Free OS X but MIT declined.

The reviews I have read haven't been favorable... but I've only read the
reviews/comments.

Judy

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005, Thomas McCarthy wrote:

>
> Have you folks heard about this? Especially you ed people.
> http://laptop.media.mit.edu/laptop-contact.html
> Runs on Linux. Let's make some great freeware for it!



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Fri Nov 18 13:06:47 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:06:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: One Laptop Per Child project
In-Reply-To: <20051118141453.db2g0pk18oswscwc@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511181005450.28772-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Aren't there some crank-based ones too?  One or more cranks for 30 min.
battery life I think...  I'll take a look to see if I didn't delete any of
the Newtontalk posts.

Judy

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 rev at armbase.com wrote:

> THere was a project a few years ago that tried to use RISC OS (stalled because
> the ARM9 was 32 bit instead of 26/32bit) but then made a solar powered desktop
> ARM9 computer for Affrican countries (actually anywhere but htey concentrated
> on Africa)
>
> http://www.explan.co.uk/solo/index.shtml



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Fri Nov 18 13:12:05 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 13:12:05 -0500
Subject: One Laptop Per Child project
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511181005450.28772-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511181005450.28772-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <CFE6F63F-D2BB-4F8C-836B-972B7229E078@conncoll.edu>

I myself could *really* use that sometimes.

And if they want crank-based software too, maybe I could help . . .


Charles Hartman



On Nov 18, 2005, at 1:06 PM, Judy Perry wrote:

> Aren't there some crank-based ones too?  One or more cranks for 30  
> min.
> battery life I think...  I'll take a look to see if I didn't delete  
> any of
> the Newtontalk posts.



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Fri Nov 18 13:25:24 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 19:25:24 +0100
Subject: disable command
In-Reply-To: <437E0C83.8030707@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <19FA5CAA-55AD-11DA-97A8-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
	<037401c5ec51$d0109160$0b01a8c0@niconiko04zbtb>
	<437E0C83.8030707@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <3D124CD1-A767-484F-AC0B-20BBF82B93B4@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Nicolas,

I agree Jacque's answer except on one point :-)
I would prefer something like the following where the whole code is  
in the card's script and then easy to maintain:

on mouseUp
     if "image" is in the target then
     switch the short name of the target
     case "Img1"
       -- do some stuff
       break
     case "Img2"
       -- do another stuff
       break
       -- etc
     end switch
   end if
   -----
   put flushEvents("mouseUp") into temp
end mouseUp

The last line in the handler prevents any mouseUp being triggered  
while another mouseUp is running.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 18 nov. 05 ? 18:16, J. Landman Gay a ?crit :

> Nicolas Cueto wrote:
>> An hour or two of debugging but...
>> My card has 16 images, each with
>> a mouseUp script. I only want one
>> script to run at a time. So, within
>> the mouseUp script of each image
>> I added calls to lock/unlock handlers
>> contained in the card script, i.e.,
>
> I don't think I would do it this way. Instead, I would put a single  
> "mouseup" handler in the card script and test for "the target".   
> Name each image consistently, for example, "mazeImg1", "mazeImg2",  
> etc. Then you can do something like this:
>
> on mouseUp
>  if the short name of the target contains "mazeImg"
>  then send "doMazeStuff" to the target
>  else pass mouseUp
> end mouseUp
>
> Each image would have a handler called "doMazeStuff" that controls  
> its behavior -- just like what your mouseUp handlers are doing now.
>
> If a user clicks on several images in order, their scripts will run  
> sequentiallly, so that shouldn't be a problem, right?
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
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Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Nov 18 13:37:49 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:37:49 -0200
Subject: Calling webservices from RR
In-Reply-To: <f54296680511180449m377b18dfx67d2ba2e905039d6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AF725177-81C9-4277-AB73-E876D36E0D4A@pandora.be>
	<f54296680511180449m377b18dfx67d2ba2e905039d6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0DBF3F19-1B3A-4EDF-AECB-57109C77287A@mac.com>

Hi There folks,

welcome to the Revolution. As a matter of fact Rev can do  
webservices, any webservices you want as long as you can code. It's  
not as simply as some languages where you drop a WSDL file and all  
the methods are added. There are libraries for SOAP and XML-RPC. The  
SOAP library, I think its being redone at this moment, so the current  
one is deprecated, since I hate Soap I don't keep following it. The  
XML-RPC one (my choice for web services) work very fine. Before Rev  
sported a official XML-RPC library, I was able to code my own XML-RPC  
stack very easy. Revolution socket routines are very powerful, if you  
understand the string manipulation ones and the XML ones, then you  
can DIY anything that goes thru HTTP.

If you want to use server side libraries instead of client ones, you  
must code your own, but they are easy to do, and if you also use  
libCGI they are even easier to do.

You don't need altBrowser for that, but anyone working with Rev and  
web will find a very nice friend in both altBrowser and altSQLite. As  
it appears below, you're controlling both sides of the system, well,  
if you're making the client and the server in Rev, and your app won't  
need to interface with foreign clients then you can throw the  
standards to the wind and create your own web services spec as it  
suits you but keep in mind, both Soap and XML-RPC are just fancy XML,  
it's very easy to use them in Rev.

Cheers
andre

PS: I'll try creating some demo stacks in the near future.

On Nov 18, 2005, at 10:49 AM, Alessandro Manotti wrote:

> Hi,
> I had the same problem.
> I search in internet, and everything I found was an unofficial stack
> (it seems old...) to use soap.
> So I reached this conclusion: I use RunRev power to manage xml (not
> soap), then I create a jsp page (or javabean) in a Java server which
> will act as a service broker. So the "hard job" will be done in the
> server, then I send/receive data from/to RunRev in xml   :-)
>
> Obviously, you can use any web server-language you wish (php, zope,
> python, perl, etc...).
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/18/05, Ton Kuypers <tkuypers at pandora.be> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Has anyone experience with using Windows Webservices from within
>> Revolution applications and interacting with them?
>> If not directly, maybe via altBrowser?
>>
>> Before I start testing en getting specs from the developers of these
>> Webservices, it would be nice to know if I can use them...
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Ton Kuypers
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Nov 18 13:49:26 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 12:49:26 -0600
Subject: Cmd-A doesn't work from Keyboard in Standalone
In-Reply-To: <1A4D50E2-4D64-4382-A01B-9FB5001F4A5A@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <BFA37E56.30025%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/18/05 10:21 AM, "Charles Hartman" <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu>
wrote:

> Here's another experiment: Make a simple stack containing a scrolling
> list field and a button called "myCmdAbtn". The script for that button:
> on mouseUp
>    answer "myCmdAbtn got a press"
> end mouseUp
> The scrolling-list field's script:
> on commandKeyDown theKey
>    switch (theKey)
>    case "a"
>        pressTheKey
>        break
>    end switch
> end commandKeyDown
> The stack script:
> on commandKeyDown theKey
>    switch (theKey)
>    case "a"
>        send mouseUp to btn "myCmdAbtn"
>        break
>    end switch
> end commandKeyDown
> 
> On my system, pressing cmd-A when the insertion point is not inside
> the field produces the 'answer' dialog, but pressing cmd-A when the
> insertion point is inside the field selects all the items (default
> 'Choice 1', 'Choice 2', 'Choice 3') in the field.
> 
> This is why, to get a cmd-A from inside the field to "press the
> button", I found I had to put a rawKeyDown handler in the field's
> script, plus a (mostly redundant) commandKeyDown handler in the stack
> script in case the user happens to have clicked outside the field and
> so put the insertion point outside it.

Hmm... when I remove the script from the field (leaving only the script in
the stack and the script of the button), typing Cmd-A produces the answer
dialog regardless of whether the scrolling field has focus or not... does
this work differently for you?

> Am I missing something? Or is there a change between OS X versions?

Perhaps...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From wmb at internettrainer.com  Fri Nov 18 14:00:06 2005
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang Bereuter)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 20:00:06 +0100
Subject: mTropolis refugees
In-Reply-To: <437D4300.3060603@fourthworld.com>
References: <20051118022929.23289.qmail@web50215.mail.yahoo.com>
	<437D4300.3060603@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <9703070E-60AF-40E0-8083-A357215CF35D@internettrainer.com>


On 18.11.2005, at 03:57, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I've long had an offer that if someone wants to pay my bills for a  
> few months
Richard, you said allways *one* month, if I remember your offer(s)  
well;)

> I'd be happy to crank one out.  But getting a few extra months free  
> here will be difficult for quite a while --  I wonder if some of  
> the other readers here might be sufficiently intrigued to hack one  
> out, perhaps as an open source project?
>
> Never enough IDEs for this capable engine, IMO. Always one more  
> workflow preference to cater to.   It sure would be fun to add  
> RevTropolis to the mix. :)
Would be realy nice, but i m waiting for that (revTropolis would be  
much better than ReviShell) so lang, that I cant belive, that it will  
be realized any more. So, unfortunatly omegaconcept?s Quickmedia/ 
Mistralmove is the only alternative for non scripters at the moment.

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

T-mapping? is PhotoLearning Mindmaps!
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
Tel: ++43/1/ 479 6410
Fax: ++43/1/ 955 14 64-198




From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Fri Nov 18 10:01:05 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:01:05 -0500
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
Message-ID: <web-339309330@mail.maclaunch.com>

I, once upon a time, lived with a woman for a number of
years - and we never quite got round to committing
ourselves: and, surprise, surprise, we parted ways because
we never really learnt to work together.

Now I am married and everything is much smoother; even, if
one wants to bite near the bone; 'seamless'.


alright, alright, Richmond gets all metaphorical . . . 

However, owing to problems associated with the Linux
version of RR (mainly with handling media files), I can see
a parting of the ways in my crystal ball if RR doesn't make
the great leap (well, its not going to be Linux - being the
amorphous 'thing' that it is).

I honestly wonder if RR/MC's dependence on Quicktime is not
a burden on other platforms as well? It certainly stands in
the way of my other great fantasy - RR for RISC OS.

Maybe it is time for RR/MC to contain an in-built media
player that 'travels with it' and standalones ? ? ?

This would certainly make things considerably more
"seamless".

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From wmb at internettrainer.com  Fri Nov 18 14:12:13 2005
From: wmb at internettrainer.com (Wolfgang Bereuter)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 20:12:13 +0100
Subject: mTropolis Refugees
In-Reply-To: <200511170827.jAH8Rhhf018365@mail27.syd.optusnet.com.au>
References: <200511170827.jAH8Rhhf018365@mail27.syd.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <CE398E1D-CF76-4713-A93A-8E4DB1924BC0@internettrainer.com>


On 17.11.2005, at 09:27, John Tregea wrote:

> What a fantastic product it was, and I still say "Damn Adobe and  
> Quark" for
> killing it between them...

agree 100% ;)

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

T-mapping? is PhotoLearning Mindmaps!
...............................
http://www.internettrainer.com
wmb at internettrainer.com
...............................
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
Tel: ++43/1/ 479 6410
Fax: ++43/1/ 955 14 64-198




From katir at hindu.org  Fri Nov 18 04:12:43 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 23:12:43 -1000
Subject: Save on Close Stack in IDE
Message-ID: <F357F891-5488-4353-A9D8-9962952B3402@hindu.org>

Is it just me that wishes the IDE did not ask everytime if I wanted  
to save a stack when I close it? I suppose there might be times when  
one would not want it saved... but  I don't think that time has ever  
come for me. Is there  way to make this go away? I don't see a pref  
for this, but I would vote for one. in virtually all my stacks I have  
a close stack handler which is simply "save this stack"

vote to have in the prefs:

[check box] autosave on close stack without asking...

Sivakatirswami



From katir at hindu.org  Fri Nov 18 04:24:34 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 23:24:34 -1000
Subject: MP3 sound files in Rev
In-Reply-To: <20051118001818.9D35AB6B8@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com>
References: <20051118001818.9D35AB6B8@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <7C095259-0169-46CF-A483-301FEC35105F@hindu.org>

Aloha, Tom from Hawaii, just across the Big Pond...we do a lot of  
things with sound here... questions:

On Nov 17, 2005, at 2:18 PM, Thomas McCarthy wrote:

> Also keep in mind the bug where the player's sound drops out  
> towards the end.

Do you know now many secs are dropped?

> I think setting the player to visible solves it (move it off the  
> viewable area to hide it)
>
> Finally, you cannot record in mp3 or mp4 format--even though some  
> interesting possiblities are presented to you when you look at the  
> "Recording Formats" window. But you can record in wave format and  
> then run a shell program to convert it to mp3.

what program? will it run on OSX? Right now options for conversion to  
mp3 seem to be shrinking (only my ignorance---lack of time to  
research...) and I'm still depending on Audion to take WMP or WAV  
into mp3... Peak only does AIFF...and Audion is "dead"  --  
unfortunately, gone the way of small software in the face of  
hegemony... in this case, that of iTunes.

Sivakatirswami


>
> cheers,
> tm
>



From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Nov 18 14:38:36 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:38:36 -0800
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <web-339309330@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339309330@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <E603F876-BCC3-4F9C-9472-7FC8B5E5AB8A@danshafer.com>

Richmond.....

On Nov 18, 2005, at 7:01 AM, Mathewson wrote:

> Maybe it is time for RR/MC to contain an in-built media
> player that 'travels with it' and standalones ? ? ?

I'm not at all sure I agree, even though the *outcome* you depict is  
desirable.

There are standards for media. I'd rather have Rev support those  
standards than roll its own built-in media player. Writing and  
supporting such a player would seem to me to be a significant  
undertaking and I have other, higher priorities in mind for what *I*  
would like Rev to spend time and resources doing.

A quick search reveals there are multiple apps that allow you to use  
Linux with QT. So is the real problem RR's support for QT or its less- 
than-stellar support (to date) for Linux? IOW, I'd hate to see RR  
spend resources building a media player if the real problem is that  
they need to extend their QT support somehow to embrace Linux.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Fri Nov 18 14:57:22 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 14:57:22 -0500
Subject: Cmd-A doesn't work from Keyboard in Standalone
In-Reply-To: <BFA37E56.30025%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BFA37E56.30025%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <6F4DE2C1-BF08-4D69-A93B-96326322B3E0@conncoll.edu>


On Nov 18, 2005, at 1:49 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Hmm... when I remove the script from the field (leaving only the  
> script in
> the stack and the script of the button), typing Cmd-A produces the  
> answer
> dialog regardless of whether the scrolling field has focus or  
> not... does
> this work differently for you?

Absolutely. I checked it several times. If I remove the  
commandKeyDown handler from the script, then a cmd-A keypress when  
the field has the focus selects all the items in the field's  
scrolling list. It does not raise the button's 'answer' dialog.

So (to reiterate) the only way I've found to make cmd-A behave in the  
same way (NOT selecting all), no matter where the insertion point is,  
is to put redundant handlers in the script and field. I can't  
remember now why or how I decided that the one in the script had to  
be a rawKeyDown handler rather than commandKeyDown. The latter is  
easier to deal with, so I should go back and experiment with that  
some more.

One way or another, we seem to have an OS 10.3 / 10.4 disparity,  
don't we?

Charles Hartman



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Nov 18 15:06:28 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 14:06:28 -0600
Subject: Cmd-A doesn't work from Keyboard in Standalone
In-Reply-To: <6F4DE2C1-BF08-4D69-A93B-96326322B3E0@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <BFA39064.3003D%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/18/05 1:57 PM, "Charles Hartman" <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu> wrote:

> 
> On Nov 18, 2005, at 1:49 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
> 
>> Hmm... when I remove the script from the field (leaving only the
>> script in
>> the stack and the script of the button), typing Cmd-A produces the
>> answer
>> dialog regardless of whether the scrolling field has focus or
>> not... does
>> this work differently for you?
> 
> Absolutely. I checked it several times. If I remove the
> commandKeyDown handler from the script, then a cmd-A keypress when
> the field has the focus selects all the items in the field's
> scrolling list. It does not raise the button's 'answer' dialog.

> One way or another, we seem to have an OS 10.3 / 10.4 disparity,
> don't we?

Well, perhaps... it may also be a plugin or something that has a frontscript
that's grabbing the request? Or did you already install a fresh build and
test that?


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Nov 18 15:12:38 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 12:12:38 -0800
Subject: mTropolis refugees
In-Reply-To: <9703070E-60AF-40E0-8083-A357215CF35D@internettrainer.com>
References: <20051118022929.23289.qmail@web50215.mail.yahoo.com>	<437D4300.3060603@fourthworld.com>
	<9703070E-60AF-40E0-8083-A357215CF35D@internettrainer.com>
Message-ID: <437E35B6.4000605@fourthworld.com>

Wolfgang Bereuter wrote:
> 
> On 18.11.2005, at 03:57, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> I've long had an offer that if someone wants to pay my bills for a  
>> few months
> 
> Richard, you said allways *one* month, if I remember your offer(s)  well;)

True, but I'm pickier about fine-tuning and testing these days, and 
accordingly have become better at estimating. :)

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Nov 18 15:17:58 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 12:17:58 -0800
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <web-339309330@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339309330@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <437E36F6.7070507@fourthworld.com>

Mathewson wrote:
> However, owing to problems associated with the Linux
> version of RR (mainly with handling media files), I can see
> a parting of the ways in my crystal ball if RR doesn't make
> the great leap (well, its not going to be Linux - being the
> amorphous 'thing' that it is).

I don't know RunRev's position, but for myself I see Linux as a 
challenging beast with two heads:  one head speaks loudly and generates 
a lot of buzz value, but the other head tells me its desktop users are 
relatively few and only a small percentage of those like paying for the 
software they use.

On my side, supporting Linux is a checkbox and an installer and I still 
don't bother.

On RunRev's side the committment is much more extensive, and it remains 
to be seen how directly profitable it is.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From heather at runrev.com  Fri Nov 18 15:37:44 2005
From: heather at runrev.com (Heather Nagey)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 20:37:44 +0000
Subject: Revolution T-shirts, mugs and more!
Message-ID: <d142a6245566ff5eae25303ad4f94cb9@runrev.com>

Dear list members,

We're delighted to bring you a range of smart and exciting Revolution
branded merchandise. T-shirts perfect for wearing round the office,
mugs for that essential morning coffee (and evening coffee, and
midnight that-deadline-was-yesterday coffee), notepads and totebags,
everything the dedicated Revolutionary could want for Christmas.

http://www.cafepress.com/runrev

Even better, until December 6th shipping is free on orders over $50! So
don't delay, get that unique Christmas gift today!

Warm Regards,

Heather Nagey, Customer Support Manager
Runtime Revolution Ltd
www.runrev.com



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 15:50:42 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 06:50:42 +1000
Subject: Cmd-A doesn't work from Keyboard in Standalone
In-Reply-To: <BFA39064.3003D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <6F4DE2C1-BF08-4D69-A93B-96326322B3E0@conncoll.edu>
	<BFA39064.3003D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511181250ia5eb12er6e2d6e6ce7778dd1@mail.gmail.com>

> > One way or another, we seem to have an OS 10.3 / 10.4 disparity,
> > don't we?
>
> Well, perhaps... it may also be a plugin or something that has a frontscript
> that's grabbing the request? Or did you already install a fresh build and
> test that?
>
>

I can confirm Charles' results with 10.4.3 & Revoloution - so it's not
just a DreamCard thing. If I suspend the development tools it works
fine, so it's either Rev itself or some plugin, that is intercepting
the Command-A. However it is a mystery why it does it in 10.4 and not
in 10.3

Sarah


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 15:54:07 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 06:54:07 +1000
Subject: keycodes??
In-Reply-To: <1BD42470-9170-499A-A8BA-BBA18AD4A4EA@conncoll.edu>
References: <1BD42470-9170-499A-A8BA-BBA18AD4A4EA@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511181254q4dd051c8ob0f65ef4f65ca768@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/19/05, Charles Hartman <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu> wrote:
> Sometimes I need to use rawKeyDown handlers, which receive a keyCode
> parameter. Two questions: is there a table of these somewhere? and,
> are these cross-platform? (If I have to use two tables, and wrap
> everything in an "if platform" structure, I'm going to be very sad.)
>

Here is a link to a test stack I wrote to show you the key codes for
various keys: <http://www.troz.net/Rev/tutorials/KeyCoder.rev.gz>

I have always assumed they are cross-platform and don't remember
hearing of any problems.

Cheers,
Sarah


From davis.phil at comcast.net  Fri Nov 18 16:27:46 2005
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 13:27:46 -0800
Subject: keycodes??
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511181254q4dd051c8ob0f65ef4f65ca768@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1BD42470-9170-499A-A8BA-BBA18AD4A4EA@conncoll.edu>
	<f99b52860511181254q4dd051c8ob0f65ef4f65ca768@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <437E4752.5010104@comcast.net>

Sarah Reichelt wrote:
> On 11/19/05, Charles Hartman <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu> wrote:
> 
>>Sometimes I need to use rawKeyDown handlers, which receive a keyCode
>>parameter. Two questions: is there a table of these somewhere? and,
>>are these cross-platform? (If I have to use two tables, and wrap
>>everything in an "if platform" structure, I'm going to be very sad.)
>>
> 
> 
> Here is a link to a test stack I wrote to show you the key codes for
> various keys: <http://www.troz.net/Rev/tutorials/KeyCoder.rev.gz>
> 
> I have always assumed they are cross-platform and don't remember
> hearing of any problems.


In my testing, I've seen platform differences in the keycodes of some 
numeric keys (possibly uppercase?) and I think also the 10-keypad keys 
(though I'm not certain about that one). I've never compared non-numeric 
keycodes across platforms so I can't speak to that.

Phil Davis

> 
> Cheers,
> Sarah



From ale870 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 16:59:31 2005
From: ale870 at gmail.com (Alessandro Manotti)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 22:59:31 +0100
Subject: Calling webservices from RR
In-Reply-To: <0DBF3F19-1B3A-4EDF-AECB-57109C77287A@mac.com>
References: <AF725177-81C9-4277-AB73-E876D36E0D4A@pandora.be>
	<f54296680511180449m377b18dfx67d2ba2e905039d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<0DBF3F19-1B3A-4EDF-AECB-57109C77287A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <f54296680511181359j2cc2da8ck1dad925eb82b913a@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry Andre, you agree, RunRev can manage xml.

But as you know, soap is not easy to be coded, even if you have
powerful xml tools.
But since soap is becoming much famous, I think Runtime Revolution
company should provide a tested library (a lot of client and server
programming languages already supply that).
Furthermore, since RunRev is a perfect tool for rich-client creation,
I think a good, full-featured, official library, should be
definetively supplied.

--Alessandro



On 11/18/05, Andre Garzia <soapdog at mac.com> wrote:
> Hi There folks,
>
> welcome to the Revolution. As a matter of fact Rev can do
> webservices, any webservices you want as long as you can code. It's
> not as simply as some languages where you drop a WSDL file and all
> the methods are added. There are libraries for SOAP and XML-RPC. The
> SOAP library, I think its being redone at this moment, so the current
> one is deprecated, since I hate Soap I don't keep following it. The
> XML-RPC one (my choice for web services) work very fine. Before Rev
> sported a official XML-RPC library, I was able to code my own XML-RPC
> stack very easy. Revolution socket routines are very powerful, if you
> understand the string manipulation ones and the XML ones, then you
> can DIY anything that goes thru HTTP.
>
> If you want to use server side libraries instead of client ones, you
> must code your own, but they are easy to do, and if you also use
> libCGI they are even easier to do.
>
> You don't need altBrowser for that, but anyone working with Rev and
> web will find a very nice friend in both altBrowser and altSQLite. As
> it appears below, you're controlling both sides of the system, well,
> if you're making the client and the server in Rev, and your app won't
> need to interface with foreign clients then you can throw the
> standards to the wind and create your own web services spec as it
> suits you but keep in mind, both Soap and XML-RPC are just fancy XML,
> it's very easy to use them in Rev.
>
> Cheers
> andre
>
> PS: I'll try creating some demo stacks in the near future.
>
> On Nov 18, 2005, at 10:49 AM, Alessandro Manotti wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I had the same problem.
> > I search in internet, and everything I found was an unofficial stack
> > (it seems old...) to use soap.
> > So I reached this conclusion: I use RunRev power to manage xml (not
> > soap), then I create a jsp page (or javabean) in a Java server which
> > will act as a service broker. So the "hard job" will be done in the
> > server, then I send/receive data from/to RunRev in xml   :-)
> >
> > Obviously, you can use any web server-language you wish (php, zope,
> > python, perl, etc...).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/18/05, Ton Kuypers <tkuypers at pandora.be> wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Has anyone experience with using Windows Webservices from within
> >> Revolution applications and interacting with them?
> >> If not directly, maybe via altBrowser?
> >>
> >> Before I start testing en getting specs from the developers of these
> >> Webservices, it would be nice to know if I can use them...
> >>
> >> regards,
> >>
> >> Ton Kuypers
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-revolution mailing list
> >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Nov 18 19:12:09 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 22:12:09 -0200
Subject: Calling webservices from RR
In-Reply-To: <f54296680511181359j2cc2da8ck1dad925eb82b913a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AF725177-81C9-4277-AB73-E876D36E0D4A@pandora.be>
	<f54296680511180449m377b18dfx67d2ba2e905039d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<0DBF3F19-1B3A-4EDF-AECB-57109C77287A@mac.com>
	<f54296680511181359j2cc2da8ck1dad925eb82b913a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DBBA3D1-8972-43B2-B049-DF2FBD4AB250@mac.com>


On Nov 18, 2005, at 7:59 PM, Alessandro Manotti wrote:

> Sorry Andre, you agree, RunRev can manage xml.
>
> But as you know, soap is not easy to be coded, even if you have
> powerful xml tools.
> But since soap is becoming much famous, I think Runtime Revolution
> company should provide a tested library (a lot of client and server
> programming languages already supply that).
> Furthermore, since RunRev is a perfect tool for rich-client creation,
> I think a good, full-featured, official library, should be
> definetively supplied.
>
> --Alessandro


Our XML-RPC library is pretty easy to use. I do think someone is re- 
working SOAP library but I can't really tell if I've dreamed it or if  
this is actually real. :-)

and yes, libraries should be supplied.

Cheers
andre

PS: also for webservices there's REST.



From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Nov 18 19:54:12 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:54:12 -0800
Subject: Calling webservices from RR
In-Reply-To: <4DBBA3D1-8972-43B2-B049-DF2FBD4AB250@mac.com>
References: <AF725177-81C9-4277-AB73-E876D36E0D4A@pandora.be>
	<f54296680511180449m377b18dfx67d2ba2e905039d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<0DBF3F19-1B3A-4EDF-AECB-57109C77287A@mac.com>
	<f54296680511181359j2cc2da8ck1dad925eb82b913a@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DBBA3D1-8972-43B2-B049-DF2FBD4AB250@mac.com>
Message-ID: <FDB39DBD-393F-4F34-8A98-6EE0FD2F0102@danshafer.com>

Doesn't the built-in xmlrpc stuff in Rev work quite well? Or does it  
just need a better abstraction layer to make it more usable?


On Nov 18, 2005, at 4:12 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> and yes, libraries should be supplied.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From gilbert at isphlg.rimed.cu  Fri Nov 18 21:00:06 2005
From: gilbert at isphlg.rimed.cu (Gilberto Cuba)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 21:00:06 -0500
Subject: Overwrite functions...
Message-ID: <000f01c5ecad$0df87050$1c037b98@p42600>

Hi,

Exists any way of overwrite a functions that it is defined by the Engine Revolution with my function?

Example, i want to run a function that i defined like "sec" and not run a function that return the seconds.

function sec tValue
  put value( 1 / cos( tValue ) ) into tResult
  return tResult
end sec

Best regards,

Gilberto Cuba

From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Nov 18 20:03:23 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 23:03:23 -0200
Subject: Calling webservices from RR
In-Reply-To: <FDB39DBD-393F-4F34-8A98-6EE0FD2F0102@danshafer.com>
References: <AF725177-81C9-4277-AB73-E876D36E0D4A@pandora.be>
	<f54296680511180449m377b18dfx67d2ba2e905039d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<0DBF3F19-1B3A-4EDF-AECB-57109C77287A@mac.com>
	<f54296680511181359j2cc2da8ck1dad925eb82b913a@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DBBA3D1-8972-43B2-B049-DF2FBD4AB250@mac.com>
	<FDB39DBD-393F-4F34-8A98-6EE0FD2F0102@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <807EE6C6-3739-43DD-9822-B7C721213090@mac.com>

Dan,

the xml-rpc works fine, anything more we need, it's easy to code on  
top. There's no SOAP though, and no server side libraries, but third  
parties can provide that in the future.

Cheers
andre

On Nov 18, 2005, at 10:54 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Doesn't the built-in xmlrpc stuff in Rev work quite well? Or does  
> it just need a better abstraction layer to make it more usable?
>
>
> On Nov 18, 2005, at 4:12 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>
>> and yes, libraries should be supplied.
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
> http://www.shafermedia.com
> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Nov 18 20:13:43 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:13:43 -0800
Subject: Calling webservices from RR
In-Reply-To: <807EE6C6-3739-43DD-9822-B7C721213090@mac.com>
References: <AF725177-81C9-4277-AB73-E876D36E0D4A@pandora.be>
	<f54296680511180449m377b18dfx67d2ba2e905039d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<0DBF3F19-1B3A-4EDF-AECB-57109C77287A@mac.com>
	<f54296680511181359j2cc2da8ck1dad925eb82b913a@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DBBA3D1-8972-43B2-B049-DF2FBD4AB250@mac.com>
	<FDB39DBD-393F-4F34-8A98-6EE0FD2F0102@danshafer.com>
	<807EE6C6-3739-43DD-9822-B7C721213090@mac.com>
Message-ID: <B7E006EE-FF41-40BE-8837-81629C67FB45@danshafer.com>

Andre....

Is your XMLRPC demo site offline now? I dug up an old email where you  
talked about the demos you did at port 8082 (I think) on your server  
but that's non-responsive.

Dan

On Nov 18, 2005, at 5:03 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Dan,
>
> the xml-rpc works fine, anything more we need, it's easy to code on  
> top. There's no SOAP though, and no server side libraries, but  
> third parties can provide that in the future.
>
> Cheers
> andre
>
> On Nov 18, 2005, at 10:54 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>
>> Doesn't the built-in xmlrpc stuff in Rev work quite well? Or does  
>> it just need a better abstraction layer to make it more usable?
>>
>>
>> On Nov 18, 2005, at 4:12 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>>
>>> and yes, libraries should be supplied.
>>
>>
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
>> http://www.shafermedia.com
>> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Nov 18 20:14:18 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:14:18 -0800
Subject: Overwrite functions...
In-Reply-To: <000f01c5ecad$0df87050$1c037b98@p42600>
References: <000f01c5ecad$0df87050$1c037b98@p42600>
Message-ID: <A168522E-EED4-48D3-84A5-EBE279E5796E@danshafer.com>

Overriding built-ins is not supported in Rev as far as I know.


On Nov 18, 2005, at 6:00 PM, Gilberto Cuba wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Exists any way of overwrite a functions that it is defined by the  
> Engine Revolution with my function?
>
> Example, i want to run a function that i defined like "sec" and not  
> run a function that return the seconds.
>
> function sec tValue
>   put value( 1 / cos( tValue ) ) into tResult
>   return tResult
> end sec
>
> Best regards,
>
> Gilberto Cuba
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From frank at backtalk.com  Fri Nov 18 20:14:55 2005
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:14:55 -0800
Subject: SHA-1 algorithm in xTalk?
Message-ID: <5a823a596467f78430956469f6abb70d@backtalk.com>

Has anyone ported the SHA-1 algorithm to xTalk? (see 
http://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/SHA-1.html for details)

If not, would anyone be willing to port it for $$?

Regards,
-- Frank



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Fri Nov 18 20:16:22 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:16:22 -0800
Subject: Calling webservices from RR
In-Reply-To: <FDB39DBD-393F-4F34-8A98-6EE0FD2F0102@danshafer.com>
References: <AF725177-81C9-4277-AB73-E876D36E0D4A@pandora.be>
	<f54296680511180449m377b18dfx67d2ba2e905039d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<0DBF3F19-1B3A-4EDF-AECB-57109C77287A@mac.com>
	<f54296680511181359j2cc2da8ck1dad925eb82b913a@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DBBA3D1-8972-43B2-B049-DF2FBD4AB250@mac.com>
	<FDB39DBD-393F-4F34-8A98-6EE0FD2F0102@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <707C1524-E787-411F-9237-B918B79E218D@mangomultimedia.com>

On Nov 18, 2005, at 4:54 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Doesn't the built-in xmlrpc stuff in Rev work quite well? Or does  
> it just need a better abstraction layer to make it more usable?

The current library needs some improvements.  The library could use:

* Support for adding an Transcript arrays to an XML-RPC request  
(STRUCTS and ARRAYS)
* Ability to create an XML-RPC request from a Transcript array.  If a  
rev developer could create an array that mimicked the request they  
wanted to make and just pass that to a function that sent the request  
off then life would be easier.
* The ability to convert a response into a Transcript array.

Ideally the library would allow the developer to interact with a web  
service without ever having to touch XML.  Just native Transcript  
data types.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Nov 18 20:25:54 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 23:25:54 -0200
Subject: Calling webservices from RR
In-Reply-To: <B7E006EE-FF41-40BE-8837-81629C67FB45@danshafer.com>
References: <AF725177-81C9-4277-AB73-E876D36E0D4A@pandora.be>
	<f54296680511180449m377b18dfx67d2ba2e905039d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<0DBF3F19-1B3A-4EDF-AECB-57109C77287A@mac.com>
	<f54296680511181359j2cc2da8ck1dad925eb82b913a@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DBBA3D1-8972-43B2-B049-DF2FBD4AB250@mac.com>
	<FDB39DBD-393F-4F34-8A98-6EE0FD2F0102@danshafer.com>
	<807EE6C6-3739-43DD-9822-B7C721213090@mac.com>
	<B7E006EE-FF41-40BE-8837-81629C67FB45@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <F41CDD1B-4E2C-44C2-832D-9B76CD459ABF@mac.com>


On Nov 18, 2005, at 11:13 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Andre....
>
> Is your XMLRPC demo site offline now? I dug up an old email where  
> you talked about the demos you did at port 8082 (I think) on your  
> server but that's non-responsive.
>
> Dan

Dan,

my site is a little dead!!! :D

I am putting a new one up, I'll re-do all the XML-RPC stuff as soon  
as the new site is up.
(I am a better xtalker now, will avoid some bottlenecks)

Cheers
andre

From soapdog at mac.com  Fri Nov 18 20:38:38 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 23:38:38 -0200
Subject: searching the mailing list.
Message-ID: <45D06EB7-9ED8-4444-A296-2EC81379673C@mac.com>

Folks,

we had a lot of new users in the last months. I don't know if they  
are familiar with the mailing list search service that is provided at:

http://www.mail-archive.com/use-revolution at lists.runrev.com/

This is a handy way to search the mailing list for past threads and  
knowledge pool.

Also there is a archivesSearch plugin available for the IDE on  
revOnline, it's also very nice. :P

Cheers
andre


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Nov 18 20:44:54 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:44:54 -0800
Subject: Overwrite functions...
In-Reply-To: <000f01c5ecad$0df87050$1c037b98@p42600>
References: <000f01c5ecad$0df87050$1c037b98@p42600>
Message-ID: <1331175287.20051118174454@ahsoftware.net>

Gilberto-

Friday, November 18, 2005, 6:00:06 PM, you wrote:

> Exists any way of overwrite a functions that it is defined by the
> Engine Revolution with my function?

> Example, i want to run a function that i defined like "sec" and
> not run a function that return the seconds.

> function sec tValue
>   put value( 1 / cos( tValue ) ) into tResult
>   return tResult
> end sec

No, unforunately there isn't. I'd love to have this ability, too, but
it would complicate the compiler parser quite a bit, so I don't expect
to see this in my lifetime.

You'd need to define "secant" instead of "sec" in order to get past
the compiler error.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Nov 18 20:46:32 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:46:32 -0800
Subject: Revolution T-shirts, mugs and more!
In-Reply-To: <d142a6245566ff5eae25303ad4f94cb9@runrev.com>
References: <d142a6245566ff5eae25303ad4f94cb9@runrev.com>
Message-ID: <12931273338.20051118174632@ahsoftware.net>

Heather-

Friday, November 18, 2005, 12:37:44 PM, you wrote:

> everything the dedicated Revolutionary could want for Christmas.

A runrev thong? The mind boggles...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From katir at hindu.org  Fri Nov 18 20:49:26 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 15:49:26 -1000
Subject: Ajax in Revolution? Already there? some part?
Message-ID: <A95A3DCE-E208-4C35-A0E6-C70A47DEAAFB@hindu.org>

Aloha Dan:

Though iFrame may not be supported, perhaps there is something useful  
here... since you were surprised that the browser did not refresh,  
when we called for a new month in that little archive selector.

Point: as you said on the phone.. its very simple, delivery of  
modularized pieces that do not require a full page refresh... at  
least in the scenario we are already there... no client side java is  
required at all for this little one...of course I'm very naive about  
all this, but it works in a tiny little way just as you described.  
Since I don't know JAVA I have to resort to this, probably very  
unorthodox, xTalks methods...

the web page (see side bar with archive selector -- www.gurudeva.org/ 
taka/) has

1)  SSI call to the CGI when loaded ... the call is a GET request in  
initial page load
2) small SSI chunk with a submit button to the same CGI which the CGI  
handles as a POST request.

3) doing the latter delivers back just the HTML chunk needed to  
update the frame... it was live... at least in Firefox, there is no  
refresh of the entire page, we are getting data back into just that  
"object" on the page (an iFrame albeit not widely supported, but the  
model is the same, isn't it? ...modular delivery) Could not this be  
scaled way up? With just xTalk?  Of course, there are issues I don't  
see... but other may find it interesting.

The original page has this which is part of the side bar (no tables  
in this world, thanks to your book!)


<ul>
                 <li>
                     <iframe name="archiveIndex" border="0"  
width="130" height="140" src="/cgi-bin/buildTakaIndex.cgi">
                     </iframe>
                     <br />
                 </li>
                 <li>
                     You may select another month and year below,  
then click "Show"
                     <br />
                     <br />
<!--#include virtual="/taka/ssi/archive-selector.html" -->  ## which  
pulls in this:

                         <form method="post" action="/cgi-bin/ 
buildTakaIndex.cgi" target="archiveIndex">
                             <select name="month">
                                 <option selected="SELECTED"  
value="">Month</option>
                                 <option value="January">January</ 
option><option value="February">February</option><option  
value="March">March</option><option value="April">April</ 
option><option value="May">May</option><option value="June">June</ 
option><option value="July">July</option><option  
value="August">August</option><option value="September">September</ 
option><option value="October">October</option><option  
value="November">November</option><option value="December">December</ 
option>
                             </select>
                             <select name="year">
                                 <option selected="SELECTED"  
value="">Year</option>
                                 <option value="2005">2005</ 
option><option value="2004">2004</option><option value="2003">2003</ 
option><option value="2002">2002</option><option value="2001">2001</ 
option><option value="2000">2000</option><option value="1999">1999</ 
option><option value="1998">1998</option>
                             </select>
                             <input type=submit value="Show">
                         </form>

                 </li>
             </ul>

in inial load, it calls the CGI immediately (see below) as part of  
the page's initial GET request the CGI is:

#!/usr/local/bin/revolution
on startup
global tYear, tMonth

put $HTTP_REFERER into tCallingPage

if $REQUEST_METHOD is "POST" then

## user has made selections from the option pull downs and submitted
## we take that build a new month chunk and send it back
## note, the browser does not refresh the whole page.

put "" into PostIn
      repeat until length(PostIn) >= $CONTENT_LENGTH
           read from stdin until ""
               put it after PostIn
        end repeat
      put  urlDecode (PostIn)  into tDataIn

# create small array:

split tDataIn by "&" and "="

#extract elements

put tDataIn["year"] into tYear
put tDataIn["month"] into tMonth

else
## this is a GET request from the page on first load
## just  parse today's date:
## and insert the current month's links

put word 1 of item 2 of the long date into tMonth
put item 3 of the long date into tYear

#we have to wipe leading space
delete char 1 of tYear

end if

#  create a path now to the past
# and get directory list of days for the month

put "../html/taka/past/" & tYear& "/" &tMonth &"/" into tArchiveMonth
set the defaultFolder to tArchiveMonth
put the folders into tMonthList
sort tMonthList


#  We have our list of days now just have to
#  build html response
#
#  #put format ("<body onload=\"resizeTo(200,200)\"") into tIndex
#  # this "onload" directive re-sizes the main window
#  # meanwhile the iFrame remains at 1 pixel in width
# # and output from this CGI is not visible
#  # so I took it out and put simply:

#  Check to see if this request is coming from a past TAKA page
## if so, then pull in style sheet match the side links
## note: this will break on a future design change...

if tCallingPage contains "/past/" then
put format ("<html><body class=\"iframe\">") after tIndex
put format ("<style type=\"text/css\" title=\"currentStyle\"> @import  
\"/taka/css/taka_04_10_15.css\"; </style>") after tIndex


else

put format ("<html><body style=\"font: 14px/17px;\" >") after tIndex
end if

put cr & "<h4>" & tMonth & ", " & tYear & "</h4>" after tIndex
# create the links chunk

repeat for each line x in tMonthList
   if x contains tMonth then #skips dot files
   put tagIt(x,tYear,tMonth) & "&nbsp;" after tIndex
   end if
end repeat
put cr & "</body></html>" after tIndex

## We're done, just send it to stdout,  minimal http headers first:

put "Content-Type: text/html" & cr
put "Content-Length:" && the length of tIndex & cr & cr
put tIndex

end startUp

function tagIt tDay,tYear,tMonth
   set the itemdel to "_"
   put format (cr & "<a href=\"/taka/past/")& tYear & "/" &tMonth  
&"/" & tDay & format ("/\"  & target=\"_top\">") & item 2 of tDay &  
"</a>" into tDayLink
   return tDayLink
end tagit




From tominjapan at excite.com  Fri Nov 18 21:06:00 2005
From: tominjapan at excite.com (Thomas McCarthy)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 21:06:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: MP3 sound files in Rev
Message-ID: <20051119020600.9F9DAB6E3@xprdmailfe19.nwk.excite.com>


Aloha Sivakatirswami!

>Do you know now many secs are dropped?
not sure, but it seemed to me about 1 or less.

>>then run a shell program to convert it to mp3.
>what program? will it run on OSX?

Not only will it run on OSX (and windows) but it will run from within rev! It's a unix exe. You have your stack record a sound to a file and then call this exe with the proper parameters and presto--mp3.
I made this in January, so I can't recall right away where I got the unix file [somewhere in the back of my head it seems I had to build it]--might have been www.finkproject.org

>I'm still depending on Audion to take WMP or WAV into mp3... Peak only does AIFF...and Audion is "dead"

Drop everything and get Audacity! It's free and will do mp3 (although it, too, requires you to look for the .dll/.exe and put it in the program's folder).

If you search the archives for mp3 and my name, you should be able to find the script I used.

tm

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!




From davis.phil at comcast.net  Fri Nov 18 21:10:08 2005
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:10:08 -0800
Subject: SHA-1 algorithm in xTalk?
In-Reply-To: <5a823a596467f78430956469f6abb70d@backtalk.com>
References: <5a823a596467f78430956469f6abb70d@backtalk.com>
Message-ID: <437E8980.7030108@comcast.net>

I don't know much about hashes - is SHA-1 enough better than Rev's 
md5digest to warrant paying someone to do it? Or will md5digest do what 
you need?

Phil Davis


Frank Leahy wrote:
> Has anyone ported the SHA-1 algorithm to xTalk? (see 
> http://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/SHA-1.html for details)
> 
> If not, would anyone be willing to port it for $$?
> 
> Regards,
> -- Frank



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Nov 18 21:31:28 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:31:28 -0800
Subject: Calling webservices from RR
In-Reply-To: <4DBBA3D1-8972-43B2-B049-DF2FBD4AB250@mac.com>
References: <AF725177-81C9-4277-AB73-E876D36E0D4A@pandora.be>
	<f54296680511180449m377b18dfx67d2ba2e905039d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<0DBF3F19-1B3A-4EDF-AECB-57109C77287A@mac.com>
	<f54296680511181359j2cc2da8ck1dad925eb82b913a@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DBBA3D1-8972-43B2-B049-DF2FBD4AB250@mac.com>
Message-ID: <6533969535.20051118183128@ahsoftware.net>

Andre-

I have to say the documentation on the xmlrpc functions leaves
something to be desired. For example, the description of the following
functions simply says "More details to come":

revXMLRPC_DeleteParam
revXMLRPC_Execute
revXMLRPC_Free
revXMLRPC_Free (apparently it's an alias for itself)
revXMLRPC_GetParam
revXMLRPC_GetParamCount
revXMLRPC_GetParamNode
revXMLRPC_GetParamType

Some of these are fairly intuitive as to what they're supposed to do.
But it would be instructive to know, for example, what kinds of error
revXMLRPC_Execute would return. I notice that revXMLRPC_Documents()
will return an error starting with "xmlrpcerr" if it encounters an
error, although I can't imagine what kind of an error it would run up
against. RevXMLRPC_Free never does return an error in the result, so
you never know whether it actually did delete your document or not.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Nov 18 21:37:51 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 20:37:51 -0600
Subject: Cmd-A doesn't work from Keyboard in Standalone
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511181250ia5eb12er6e2d6e6ce7778dd1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6F4DE2C1-BF08-4D69-A93B-96326322B3E0@conncoll.edu>	<BFA39064.3003D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<f99b52860511181250ia5eb12er6e2d6e6ce7778dd1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <437E8FFF.2090101@hyperactivesw.com>

Sarah Reichelt wrote:
>>>One way or another, we seem to have an OS 10.3 / 10.4 disparity,
>>>don't we?
>>
>>Well, perhaps... it may also be a plugin or something that has a frontscript
>>that's grabbing the request? Or did you already install a fresh build and
>>test that?
>>
>>
> 
> 
> I can confirm Charles' results with 10.4.3 & Revoloution - so it's not
> just a DreamCard thing. If I suspend the development tools it works
> fine, so it's either Rev itself or some plugin, that is intercepting
> the Command-A. However it is a mystery why it does it in 10.4 and not
> in 10.3
> 
> Sarah

I can confirm Ken's results with 10.3.9. But -- what kind of list field 
are we talking about? When I set up a regular list field without 
multiple selections allowed, I can't select all the lines anyway no 
matter what. Could the list field settings be the difference? Charles, 
what are the settings for listBehavior, multipleHilites, traversalOn, 
locktext, etc.?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Fri Nov 18 21:47:32 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 21:47:32 -0500
Subject: Cmd-A doesn't work from Keyboard in Standalone
In-Reply-To: <437E8FFF.2090101@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <6F4DE2C1-BF08-4D69-A93B-96326322B3E0@conncoll.edu>	<BFA39064.3003D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<f99b52860511181250ia5eb12er6e2d6e6ce7778dd1@mail.gmail.com>
	<437E8FFF.2090101@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <76D22868-FD57-481F-8F55-67DCA99B9A35@conncoll.edu>

For the test stack I just pulled a Scrolling List Field straight from  
the tools palette. So List Behavior is true; multipleHilites is  
false; traversalOn is true. I see that the lockText is also true,  
which seems interesting. If you pull what you call "a regular list  
field" from the Tools palette, is that property false? If you have no  
commandKey handler at all, doesn't cmd-A select all the lines in the  
list?

Charles Hartman


On Nov 18, 2005, at 9:37 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Sarah Reichelt wrote:
>> I can confirm Charles' results with 10.4.3 & Revoloution - so it's  
>> not
>> just a DreamCard thing. If I suspend the development tools it works
>> fine, so it's either Rev itself or some plugin, that is intercepting
>> the Command-A. However it is a mystery why it does it in 10.4 and not
>> in 10.3
>> Sarah
>
> I can confirm Ken's results with 10.3.9. But -- what kind of list  
> field are we talking about? When I set up a regular list field  
> without multiple selections allowed, I can't select all the lines  
> anyway no matter what. Could the list field settings be the  
> difference? Charles, what are the settings for listBehavior,  
> multipleHilites, traversalOn, locktext, etc.?


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Fri Nov 18 22:17:06 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 22:17:06 -0500
Subject: keycodes??
In-Reply-To: <437E4752.5010104@comcast.net>
References: <1BD42470-9170-499A-A8BA-BBA18AD4A4EA@conncoll.edu>
	<f99b52860511181254q4dd051c8ob0f65ef4f65ca768@mail.gmail.com>
	<437E4752.5010104@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <095D18BB-35FE-45FF-A4AA-912F7978FC5F@conncoll.edu>

Thanks to Sarah & Phil. I just wanted to know if I could trust the  
basics -- escape, return, enter, arrow keys.

Charles

On Nov 18, 2005, at 4:27 PM, Phil Davis wrote:

> Sarah Reichelt wrote:
>> On 11/19/05, Charles Hartman <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu> wrote:
>>> Sometimes I need to use rawKeyDown handlers, which receive a keyCode
>>> parameter. Two questions: is there a table of these somewhere? and,
>>> are these cross-platform? (If I have to use two tables, and wrap
>>> everything in an "if platform" structure, I'm going to be very sad.)
>>>
>> Here is a link to a test stack I wrote to show you the key codes for
>> various keys: <http://www.troz.net/Rev/tutorials/KeyCoder.rev.gz>
>> I have always assumed they are cross-platform and don't remember
>> hearing of any problems.
>
>
> In my testing, I've seen platform differences in the keycodes of  
> some numeric keys (possibly uppercase?) and I think also the 10- 
> keypad keys (though I'm not certain about that one). I've never  
> compared non-numeric keycodes across platforms so I can't speak to  
> that.
>
> Phil Davis
>
>> Cheers,
>> Sarah
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Fri Nov 18 22:25:14 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 13:25:14 +1000
Subject: Cmd-A doesn't work from Keyboard in Standalone
In-Reply-To: <437E8FFF.2090101@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <6F4DE2C1-BF08-4D69-A93B-96326322B3E0@conncoll.edu>
	<BFA39064.3003D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<f99b52860511181250ia5eb12er6e2d6e6ce7778dd1@mail.gmail.com>
	<437E8FFF.2090101@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511181925m51899ac1i53f9f9a7c59788d1@mail.gmail.com>

> >>>One way or another, we seem to have an OS 10.3 / 10.4 disparity,
> >>>don't we?
> >>
> >>Well, perhaps... it may also be a plugin or something that has a frontscript
> >>that's grabbing the request? Or did you already install a fresh build and
> >>test that?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > I can confirm Charles' results with 10.4.3 & Revoloution - so it's not
> > just a DreamCard thing. If I suspend the development tools it works
> > fine, so it's either Rev itself or some plugin, that is intercepting
> > the Command-A. However it is a mystery why it does it in 10.4 and not
> > in 10.3
> >
> > Sarah
>
> I can confirm Ken's results with 10.3.9. But -- what kind of list field
> are we talking about? When I set up a regular list field without
> multiple selections allowed, I can't select all the lines anyway no
> matter what. Could the list field settings be the difference? Charles,
> what are the settings for listBehavior, multipleHilites, traversalOn,
> locktext, etc.?
>

I just used a standard editable field, not a list field, and I got the
same thing Charles got.

Sarah


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Fri Nov 18 23:40:13 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 22:40:13 -0600
Subject: Cmd-A doesn't work from Keyboard in Standalone
In-Reply-To: <76D22868-FD57-481F-8F55-67DCA99B9A35@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <BFA408CD.300B4%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/18/05 8:47 PM, "Charles Hartman" <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu> wrote:

> For the test stack I just pulled a Scrolling List Field straight from
> the tools palette. So List Behavior is true; multipleHilites is
> false; traversalOn is true. I see that the lockText is also true,
> which seems interesting. If you pull what you call "a regular list
> field" from the Tools palette, is that property false? If you have no
> commandKey handler at all, doesn't cmd-A select all the lines in the
> list?

No, not for me... I did the same as you - pulled a scrolling list field
straight from the tools palette, clicked in it and typed command-A... The
Edit menu flashed but the selection remained the same ("Choice 2" was the
only thing highlighted).

(10.3.9 with Rev 2.6.1 build 152)


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Nov 19 00:08:17 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 06:08:17 +0100
Subject: Timeline and cudos since June?
In-Reply-To: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A996835E@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <20051119042849.87D2D824DE4@mail.runrev.com>

> I think perhaps your complaints actually produce results...
> 
> So please don't stop!

Jonathan

Thanks, that's very kind of you :)

But I do have to much less to complain about now ;)

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Nov 19 02:33:10 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 08:33:10 +0100
Subject: searching the mailing list.
In-Reply-To: <45D06EB7-9ED8-4444-A296-2EC81379673C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20051119065335.B54E78253E4@mail.runrev.com>


Great tool Andre (ActiveSearch)!

Does the plugin strip sigs? :) 

I'll add it ;)

But it's definitely cool!!!

Great stack! Im impressed at the speed!

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Andre Garzia
> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 02:39
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: searching the mailing list.
> 
> Folks,
> 
> we had a lot of new users in the last months. I don't know if 
> they are familiar with the mailing list search service that 
> is provided at:
> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/use-revolution at lists.runrev.com/
> 
> This is a handy way to search the mailing list for past 
> threads and knowledge pool.
> 
> Also there is a archivesSearch plugin available for the IDE 
> on revOnline, it's also very nice. :P
> 
> Cheers
> andre
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Nov 19 02:44:26 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 08:44:26 +0100
Subject: Ajax in Revolution? Already there? some part?
In-Reply-To: <A95A3DCE-E208-4C35-A0E6-C70A47DEAAFB@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <20051119070451.C868E8253D2@mail.runrev.com>


Dare I say TAOO is scaled up for this?

I didn't want to polute the lists with the long story so
I've added a new article TAOO vs Ajax in TAOO's tiki on how TAOO can be an
AJAX killer on Rev...

http://www.monsieurx.com/tiki/tiki-list_articles.php

Hope you like it. I'll be looking into soap, xml and other data exchange
models in the future (possibly CORBA again). Any interested scripters are
welcome to join in their libraries, comments, questions, ideas or
impressions.

Those interested in joining the effort to make it happen sooner than later
are welcome to join the TAOO team!

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo - The RAD object



From shaosean at hotmail.com  Sat Nov 19 05:00:15 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 05:00:15 -0500
Subject: SHA-1 algorithm
In-Reply-To: <20051119065339.2AE61825496@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-F25CAF80B1DD72FF6445F0AC3510@phx.gbl>

>Has anyone ported the SHA-1 algorithm to xTalk? (see 
>http://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/SHA-1.html for details)

After getting this message I went and converted the JavaScript code into 
Transcript, but due to limitations with v2.0 I can't test it to make certain 
that it does work 100%. When I go into work (either on Saturday or Sunday) 
I'll test it there


>If not, would anyone be willing to port it for $$?

I could use an altBrowser license ;-)  but otherwise it'll just end up on my 
website as a freebie for everyone to use..

_________________________________________________________________
Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/



From Camm29 at tesco.net  Sat Nov 19 06:33:08 2005
From: Camm29 at tesco.net (Camm29)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 11:33:08 -0000
Subject: Binary String to Enable Objects
Message-ID: <000e01c5ecfd$7c9ef380$0a01a8c0@mobile1>

I have a Binary String say "00001100101011011100101010101010"

I then wish to enable or disable upto 32 Objects depending on "0" or "1" of the String.
Each bit being alloacated to a a different Object.

Is there an easy way !

Regards

From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Sat Nov 19 06:56:41 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:56:41 +0100
Subject: Binary String to Enable Objects
In-Reply-To: <000e01c5ecfd$7c9ef380$0a01a8c0@mobile1>
References: <000e01c5ecfd$7c9ef380$0a01a8c0@mobile1>
Message-ID: <2F3E2553-239E-4FAD-87A7-EBD39E17B412@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hello X,

The best way (for me :-) should be to set the altIDs of the 32  
controls in reference to the binary list (or use the IDs directly if  
they match the right sequence):
Then, for instance, if IDs (or altIDs) are 2001 to 2032:

local tBinStr -- your binary string
-----
lock screen
repeat with i = 1 to 32
   set the enabled of control ID (i + 2000) to (item i of tBinStr = 1)
end repeat
unlock screen

Hope this helps.

Le 19 nov. 05 ? 12:33, Camm29 a ?crit :

> I have a Binary String say "00001100101011011100101010101010"
> I then wish to enable or disable upto 32 Objects depending on "0"  
> or "1" of the String.
> Each bit being alloacated to a a different Object.
> Is there an easy way !

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From kee at kagi.com  Sat Nov 19 08:36:18 2005
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 05:36:18 -0800
Subject: Apache Server with RunRev stacks doing the processing?
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-F25CAF80B1DD72FF6445F0AC3510@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY105-F25CAF80B1DD72FF6445F0AC3510@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <B877C604-E0A0-4483-8F13-BCE2A23C8F80@kagi.com>

I'm looking for a way to have an Apache server catch a request (will  
be using SOAP which is basically just a bunch of XML), feed it to a  
RunRev stack that I can debug using the RunRev development  
environment (ie not using a text file with XTalk in it), and then  
format a reply (more XML) and feed it back to the client that sent  
the request. I want to be able to watch the stack visually process  
the request so that I can step through the code as it processes a  
request and debug it quickly.

My preference is to run this on Mac OS X if that makes a difference  
and my preference is to use HTTPS as the transport method, not HTTP  
(which means I really do need to use Apache as the web server). Is  
anyone doing something like this OR does anyone have suggestions on  
how I might implement this.

I'm assuming I'd set up HTTPS on Apache to catch the SOAP requests if  
that is possible. The question is how do I transfer the data that  
Apache receives to a RunRev stack and then how do I send it back? I  
do this today with Hypercard using Jason Sendman's acgiDispatcher  
that feeds Apache gathered data via AppleScript to an application  
stack but if there is a more elegant way to do this without going  
through AppleScript, that would be better. The main thing is I want  
to retain the RunRev development environment so that I can quickly  
modify and troubleshoot the code.

Suggestions and links welcome. Be happy to pay someone to walk me  
through this setup if that gets me up and running quickly.

Kee Nethery



From got at mindspring.com  Sat Nov 19 08:48:12 2005
From: got at mindspring.com (Gordon Tillman)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 07:48:12 -0600
Subject: Apache Server with RunRev stacks doing the processing?
In-Reply-To: <B877C604-E0A0-4483-8F13-BCE2A23C8F80@kagi.com>
References: <BAY105-F25CAF80B1DD72FF6445F0AC3510@phx.gbl>
	<B877C604-E0A0-4483-8F13-BCE2A23C8F80@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <B09029CE-2187-4D23-A794-3EB791E2B9F6@mindspring.com>

Morning Kee,

On Nov 19, 2005, at 07:36, kee nethery wrote:

> I'm looking for a way to have an Apache server catch a request  
> (will be using SOAP which is basically just a bunch of XML), feed  
> it to a RunRev stack that I can debug using the RunRev development  
> environment (ie not using a text file with XTalk in it), and then  
> format a reply (more XML) and feed it back to the client that sent  
> the request. I want to be able to watch the stack visually process  
> the request so that I can step through the code as it processes a  
> request and debug it quickly.
>
> My preference is to run this on Mac OS X if that makes a difference  
> and my preference is to use HTTPS as the transport method, not HTTP  
> (which means I really do need to use Apache as the web server). Is  
> anyone doing something like this OR does anyone have suggestions on  
> how I might implement this.

Here's an idea --

Have your RunRev stack listen on some socket.  Pick one above 1024 so  
you don't need to run it as root.  The write a simple php script that  
is called from Apache.  The php script can open a socket connection  
to the RunRev stack, send the information to the stack over that  
socket, and let the stack process the information.  The stack will  
then send the results back to the php script which can then return  
the information.

Depending on how long you plan on playing with the stack, debugging  
it and what not, you may need to turn up some timeout values in Apache.

--gordon

P.S. - If I get some time later today I will post a small sample for  
you.




>
> I'm assuming I'd set up HTTPS on Apache to catch the SOAP requests  
> if that is possible. The question is how do I transfer the data  
> that Apache receives to a RunRev stack and then how do I send it  
> back? I do this today with Hypercard using Jason Sendman's  
> acgiDispatcher that feeds Apache gathered data via AppleScript to  
> an application stack but if there is a more elegant way to do this  
> without going through AppleScript, that would be better. The main  
> thing is I want to retain the RunRev development environment so  
> that I can quickly modify and troubleshoot the code.
>
> Suggestions and links welcome. Be happy to pay someone to walk me  
> through this setup if that gets me up and running quickly.
>
> Kee Nethery
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From kee at kagi.com  Sat Nov 19 09:52:28 2005
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 06:52:28 -0800
Subject: Apache Server with RunRev stacks doing the processing?
In-Reply-To: <B09029CE-2187-4D23-A794-3EB791E2B9F6@mindspring.com>
References: <BAY105-F25CAF80B1DD72FF6445F0AC3510@phx.gbl>
	<B877C604-E0A0-4483-8F13-BCE2A23C8F80@kagi.com>
	<B09029CE-2187-4D23-A794-3EB791E2B9F6@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <2BDEEFD0-4506-410F-AEDE-5B1F55FC22B7@kagi.com>


On Nov 19, 2005, at 5:48 AM, Gordon Tillman wrote:

> Morning Kee,
>
> On Nov 19, 2005, at 07:36, kee nethery wrote:
>
>> I'm looking for a way to have an Apache server catch a request  
>> (will be using SOAP which is basically just a bunch of XML), feed  
>> it to a RunRev stack that I can debug using the RunRev development  
>> environment (ie not using a text file with XTalk in it), and then  
>> format a reply (more XML) and feed it back to the client that sent  
>> the request. I want to be able to watch the stack visually process  
>> the request so that I can step through the code as it processes a  
>> request and debug it quickly.
>>
>> My preference is to run this on Mac OS X if that makes a  
>> difference and my preference is to use HTTPS as the transport  
>> method, not HTTP (which means I really do need to use Apache as  
>> the web server). Is anyone doing something like this OR does  
>> anyone have suggestions on how I might implement this.
>
> Here's an idea --
>
> Have your RunRev stack listen on some socket.  Pick one above 1024  
> so you don't need to run it as root.  The write a simple php script  
> that is called from Apache.  The php script can open a socket  
> connection to the RunRev stack, send the information to the stack  
> over that socket, and let the stack process the information.  The  
> stack will then send the results back to the php script which can  
> then return the information.
>
> Depending on how long you plan on playing with the stack, debugging  
> it and what not, you may need to turn up some timeout values in  
> Apache.

Excellent Idea, simple, elegant, I like it.

>
> --gordon
>
> P.S. - If I get some time later today I will post a small sample  
> for you.

Yes please. Thanks.

Kee


>
>
>
>
>>
>> I'm assuming I'd set up HTTPS on Apache to catch the SOAP requests  
>> if that is possible. The question is how do I transfer the data  
>> that Apache receives to a RunRev stack and then how do I send it  
>> back? I do this today with Hypercard using Jason Sendman's  
>> acgiDispatcher that feeds Apache gathered data via AppleScript to  
>> an application stack but if there is a more elegant way to do this  
>> without going through AppleScript, that would be better. The main  
>> thing is I want to retain the RunRev development environment so  
>> that I can quickly modify and troubleshoot the code.
>>
>> Suggestions and links welcome. Be happy to pay someone to walk me  
>> through this setup if that gets me up and running quickly.
>>
>> Kee Nethery
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From psahores at easynet.fr  Sat Nov 19 09:54:02 2005
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 15:54:02 +0100
Subject: Apache Server with RunRev stacks doing the processing?
In-Reply-To: <B877C604-E0A0-4483-8F13-BCE2A23C8F80@kagi.com>
References: <BAY105-F25CAF80B1DD72FF6445F0AC3510@phx.gbl>
	<B877C604-E0A0-4483-8F13-BCE2A23C8F80@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <D9095770-A212-4822-9C1F-1537B7E5CA9C@easynet.fr>

Kee,

Perhaps would you be interested in having an eye on the tutorial i  
wrote sometimes ago about the subject you are querying about :

<http://istream.homeunix.com/insead/index.html>

All my apologies about the "english-like" issue ;-)

Regards,


Le 19 nov. 05 ? 14:36, kee nethery a ?crit :

> I'm looking for a way to have an Apache server catch a request  
> (will be using SOAP which is basically just a bunch of XML), feed  
> it to a RunRev stack that I can debug using the RunRev development  
> environment (ie not using a text file with XTalk in it), and then  
> format a reply (more XML) and feed it back to the client that sent  
> the request. I want to be able to watch the stack visually process  
> the request so that I can step through the code as it processes a  
> request and debug it quickly.
>
> My preference is to run this on Mac OS X if that makes a difference  
> and my preference is to use HTTPS as the transport method, not HTTP  
> (which means I really do need to use Apache as the web server). Is  
> anyone doing something like this OR does anyone have suggestions on  
> how I might implement this.
>
> I'm assuming I'd set up HTTPS on Apache to catch the SOAP requests  
> if that is possible. The question is how do I transfer the data  
> that Apache receives to a RunRev stack and then how do I send it  
> back? I do this today with Hypercard using Jason Sendman's  
> acgiDispatcher that feeds Apache gathered data via AppleScript to  
> an application stack but if there is a more elegant way to do this  
> without going through AppleScript, that would be better. The main  
> thing is I want to retain the RunRev development environment so  
> that I can quickly modify and troubleshoot the code.
>
> Suggestions and links welcome. Be happy to pay someone to walk me  
> through this setup if that gets me up and running quickly.
>
> Kee Nethery
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr
sc+ at +sahores-conseil.com

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

<http://www.sahores-conseil.com/>

WEB/VoD/ACID-DB services over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"




From alex at tweedly.net  Sat Nov 19 09:57:23 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 14:57:23 +0000
Subject: Binary String to Enable Objects
In-Reply-To: <2F3E2553-239E-4FAD-87A7-EBD39E17B412@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <000e01c5ecfd$7c9ef380$0a01a8c0@mobile1>
	<2F3E2553-239E-4FAD-87A7-EBD39E17B412@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <437F3D53.8000709@tweedly.net>

Eric Chatonet wrote:

> Hello X,
>
> The best way (for me :-) should be to set the altIDs of the 32  
> controls in reference to the binary list (or use the IDs directly if  
> they match the right sequence):
> Then, for instance, if IDs (or altIDs) are 2001 to 2032:
>
> local tBinStr -- your binary string
> -----
> lock screen
> repeat with i = 1 to 32
>   set the enabled of control ID (i + 2000) to (item i of tBinStr = 1)
> end repeat
> unlock screen
>
That's neat !  I would never have thought of using the IDs - I've never 
set an ID to a specific value, but I'll probably remember to consider 
this idea now - thanks. 

I would have done something rather less robust, such as naming the 
controls something like Bit1, Bit2, ... Bit32 and used something like
     set the enabled of control tControlName to ...

btw I think the string is a text string representing a binary number, so 
it would actually be
     set the enabled of control ("Bit" & i) to (char i of tBinStr = "1")

(Or, if the controls needed to have meaningful names for other purposes, 
then I'd have used an array or customproperty to map numbers to control 
names).

> Hope this helps.
>
> Le 19 nov. 05 ? 12:33, Camm29 a ?crit :
>
>> I have a Binary String say "00001100101011011100101010101010"
>> I then wish to enable or disable upto 32 Objects depending on "0"  or 
>> "1" of the String.
>> Each bit being alloacated to a a different Object.
>> Is there an easy way !
>
>
> Best Regards from Paris,
>
> Eric Chatonet.



-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.2/170 - Release Date: 15/11/2005



From gilbert at isphlg.rimed.cu  Fri Nov 18 21:33:19 2005
From: gilbert at isphlg.rimed.cu (Gilberto Cuba)
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 21:33:19 -0500
Subject: Overwrite functions...
References: <000f01c5ecad$0df87050$1c037b98@p42600>
	<A168522E-EED4-48D3-84A5-EBE279E5796E@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <003e01c5ecb2$1767a750$1c037b98@p42600>

And overloading of functions???


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Shafer" <revdan at danshafer.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: Overwrite functions...


> Overriding built-ins is not supported in Rev as far as I know.
>
>
> On Nov 18, 2005, at 6:00 PM, Gilberto Cuba wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Exists any way of overwrite a functions that it is defined by the  Engine 
>> Revolution with my function?
>>
>> Example, i want to run a function that i defined like "sec" and not  run 
>> a function that return the seconds.
>>
>> function sec tValue
>>   put value( 1 / cos( tValue ) ) into tResult
>>   return tResult
>> end sec
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Gilberto Cuba
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
> http://www.shafermedia.com
> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> 





From tkuypers at pandora.be  Sat Nov 19 10:02:34 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 16:02:34 +0100
Subject: [slightly OT] using sudo -S via shell
Message-ID: <63BCFA79-E4F1-4514-93F9-C003C939A5D3@pandora.be>

hi,

I know there are people online with a lot of unix knowledge, so  
here's a question for them:

Through a rev-app a user needs to automatically create a bunch of  
folders on a servervolume and this user has limited privileges for  
the root directory these folders need to be in.
The server is an OS-X server, so I was looking into the sudo -S  
command...

Because I don't have a server like that setup, I created another  
account on my Mac, but I don't think I can be very sure everything  
works the way it should work...

The command I send via shell is "sudo -S mkdir '/users/test/desktop/ 
testfolder'"

The result is a new folder on the test-users desktop.
But when I do the same from the terminal, I get the question to enter  
a password for the same command.

Questions:
- Why don't I need to enter a password when using RR?
- What will happen when I do this on a network volume?
- How do I send the password in one line with the sudo command,  
because I can't seem to get this working from within the Terminal app.

Many thanks in advance,

Ton Kuypers


From tkuypers at pandora.be  Sat Nov 19 10:06:52 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 16:06:52 +0100
Subject: Calling webservices from RR
In-Reply-To: <0DBF3F19-1B3A-4EDF-AECB-57109C77287A@mac.com>
References: <AF725177-81C9-4277-AB73-E876D36E0D4A@pandora.be>
	<f54296680511180449m377b18dfx67d2ba2e905039d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<0DBF3F19-1B3A-4EDF-AECB-57109C77287A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <89C5566A-4F54-418F-871B-E19D9F488D64@pandora.be>

Andre,

Do you already have a some kind of demo stack from which I (and other  
interested persons on this list) can take a look at and learn from it?
Just to get me started, if it is to confidential to share with the  
world, please contact me off-list, I'm really interested in what you  
did...

Many thanks in advance,

Ton Kuypers


On 18-nov-05, at 19:37, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Hi There folks,
>
> welcome to the Revolution. As a matter of fact Rev can do  
> webservices, any webservices you want as long as you can code. It's  
> not as simply as some languages where you drop a WSDL file and all  
> the methods are added. There are libraries for SOAP and XML-RPC.  
> The SOAP library, I think its being redone at this moment, so the  
> current one is deprecated, since I hate Soap I don't keep following  
> it. The XML-RPC one (my choice for web services) work very fine.  
> Before Rev sported a official XML-RPC library, I was able to code  
> my own XML-RPC stack very easy. Revolution socket routines are very  
> powerful, if you understand the string manipulation ones and the  
> XML ones, then you can DIY anything that goes thru HTTP.
>
> If you want to use server side libraries instead of client ones,  
> you must code your own, but they are easy to do, and if you also  
> use libCGI they are even easier to do.
>
> You don't need altBrowser for that, but anyone working with Rev and  
> web will find a very nice friend in both altBrowser and altSQLite.  
> As it appears below, you're controlling both sides of the system,  
> well, if you're making the client and the server in Rev, and your  
> app won't need to interface with foreign clients then you can throw  
> the standards to the wind and create your own web services spec as  
> it suits you but keep in mind, both Soap and XML-RPC are just fancy  
> XML, it's very easy to use them in Rev.
>
> Cheers
> andre
>
> PS: I'll try creating some demo stacks in the near future.
>
> On Nov 18, 2005, at 10:49 AM, Alessandro Manotti wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I had the same problem.
>> I search in internet, and everything I found was an unofficial stack
>> (it seems old...) to use soap.
>> So I reached this conclusion: I use RunRev power to manage xml (not
>> soap), then I create a jsp page (or javabean) in a Java server which
>> will act as a service broker. So the "hard job" will be done in the
>> server, then I send/receive data from/to RunRev in xml   :-)
>>
>> Obviously, you can use any web server-language you wish (php, zope,
>> python, perl, etc...).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/18/05, Ton Kuypers <tkuypers at pandora.be> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Has anyone experience with using Windows Webservices from within
>>> Revolution applications and interacting with them?
>>> If not directly, maybe via altBrowser?
>>>
>>> Before I start testing en getting specs from the developers of these
>>> Webservices, it would be nice to know if I can use them...
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> Ton Kuypers
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Sat Nov 19 10:08:07 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 16:08:07 +0100
Subject: Binary String to Enable Objects
In-Reply-To: <437F3D53.8000709@tweedly.net>
References: <000e01c5ecfd$7c9ef380$0a01a8c0@mobile1>
	<2F3E2553-239E-4FAD-87A7-EBD39E17B412@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<437F3D53.8000709@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <DB532466-CC41-4786-B4AE-1E13380BED59@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Alex,

Perfect.
Of course we have to use (char i of tBinStr = 1) and not item!
I use too the method that consists in naming controls with an  
incremental suffix.
But I think that IDs, since they can never change, might be the more  
secure solution... but it supposes to build the GUI properly ;-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 19 nov. 05 ? 15:57, Alex Tweedly a ?crit :

> Eric Chatonet wrote:
>
>> Hello X,
>>
>> The best way (for me :-) should be to set the altIDs of the 32   
>> controls in reference to the binary list (or use the IDs directly  
>> if  they match the right sequence):
>> Then, for instance, if IDs (or altIDs) are 2001 to 2032:
>>
>> local tBinStr -- your binary string
>> -----
>> lock screen
>> repeat with i = 1 to 32
>>   set the enabled of control ID (i + 2000) to (item i of tBinStr = 1)
>> end repeat
>> unlock screen
>>
> That's neat !  I would never have thought of using the IDs - I've  
> never set an ID to a specific value, but I'll probably remember to  
> consider this idea now - thanks.
> I would have done something rather less robust, such as naming the  
> controls something like Bit1, Bit2, ... Bit32 and used something like
>     set the enabled of control tControlName to ...
>
> btw I think the string is a text string representing a binary  
> number, so it would actually be
>     set the enabled of control ("Bit" & i) to (char i of tBinStr =  
> "1")
>
> (Or, if the controls needed to have meaningful names for other  
> purposes, then I'd have used an array or customproperty to map  
> numbers to control names).
>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Le 19 nov. 05 ? 12:33, Camm29 a ?crit :
>>
>>> I have a Binary String say "00001100101011011100101010101010"
>>> I then wish to enable or disable upto 32 Objects depending on  
>>> "0"  or "1" of the String.
>>> Each bit being alloacated to a a different Object.
>>> Is there an easy way !
>>
>>
>> Best Regards from Paris,
>>
>> Eric Chatonet.

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From rcozens at pon.net  Sat Nov 19 10:40:28 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 07:40:28 -0800
Subject: Binary String to Enable Objects
In-Reply-To: <437F3D53.8000709@tweedly.net>
References: <000e01c5ecfd$7c9ef380$0a01a8c0@mobile1>
	<2F3E2553-239E-4FAD-87A7-EBD39E17B412@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<437F3D53.8000709@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.10.1.20051119071945.0195f350@pon.net>

Hi Alex,

>That's neat !  I would never have thought of using the IDs - I've 
>never set an ID to a specific value

You can only set image ids: the ids of other controls cannot be changed.

But the key lies in "set the enabled of control ID (i + 2000) to 
(item i of tBinStr = 1)" -- which I believe should actually be

"set the enabled of control ID (i + 2000) to (char i of tBinStr = 1)"

* You can create the controls one after the other so they have 
consecutive ids; but what happens if you need to add one later?

* You could pass a list of the ids or name of the objects:

         "set the enabled of control ID (line i of myControlList) to 
(item i of tBinStr = 1)"

* You could group the 32 objects, maintain tBinStr as a custom 
property or local variable, and use this handler in the group script:

         get the tBinStr of me
         put 0 into objectNumber
         repeat for each char controlSetting in it
                 add 1 to objectNumber
                 set the enabled of control objectNumber of me to 
(controlSetting = 1)
         end repeat

Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
  Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

  from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Sat Nov 19 10:46:14 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 16:46:14 +0100
Subject: Binary String to Enable Objects
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.10.1.20051119071945.0195f350@pon.net>
References: <000e01c5ecfd$7c9ef380$0a01a8c0@mobile1>
	<2F3E2553-239E-4FAD-87A7-EBD39E17B412@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<437F3D53.8000709@tweedly.net>
	<7.0.0.10.1.20051119071945.0195f350@pon.net>
Message-ID: <422401B7-C625-493C-A0F4-F014858435BE@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Rob,

It's the reason why (and I'm sure Alex understood it :-) I told about  
setting the altIDs that are available for any control (and cards, and  
stacks).

Le 19 nov. 05 ? 16:40, Rob Cozens a ?crit :

> Hi Alex,
>
>> That's neat !  I would never have thought of using the IDs - I've  
>> never set an ID to a specific value
>
> You can only set image ids: the ids of other controls cannot be  
> changed.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Nov 19 10:51:40 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 07:51:40 -0800
Subject: Binary String to Enable Objects
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.10.1.20051119071945.0195f350@pon.net>
References: <000e01c5ecfd$7c9ef380$0a01a8c0@mobile1>	<2F3E2553-239E-4FAD-87A7-EBD39E17B412@sosmartsoftware.com>	<437F3D53.8000709@tweedly.net>
	<7.0.0.10.1.20051119071945.0195f350@pon.net>
Message-ID: <437F4A0C.5030601@fourthworld.com>

Rob Cozens wrote:
> Hi Alex,
> 
>> That's neat !  I would never have thought of using the IDs - I've 
>> never set an ID to a specific value
> 
> 
> You can only set image ids: the ids of other controls cannot be changed.

But you can use the altID property for the same effect.

Object IDs and altIDs are checked in object layer order, like this:

1. Object #1 true ID
2. Object #2 altID
3. Object #3 true ID
4. Object #4 altID
...

This does require some care to work with, as it's possible to set the 
altID of one object to the ID of another, so anything attempting to 
reference the second object by ID will actually find the first object.

The range of numbers for altIDs goes up to 65535, and if you start with 
a number well above the number of objects in your stack plus a few 
thousand you should never have a conflict.

Built-in IDs start at 1001 and all objects are apparently incremented 
from the same counter, so a new card will be 1002, a button added there 
will be 1003, etc.

So if you know the sum of all objects will be fewer than 9000 (that 
would be a hefty project), you could safely start your altIDs at 10000.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Nov 19 11:02:47 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 08:02:47 -0800
Subject: Overwrite functions...
In-Reply-To: <003e01c5ecb2$1767a750$1c037b98@p42600>
References: <000f01c5ecad$0df87050$1c037b98@p42600>	<A168522E-EED4-48D3-84A5-EBE279E5796E@danshafer.com>
	<003e01c5ecb2$1767a750$1c037b98@p42600>
Message-ID: <437F4CA7.1000606@fourthworld.com>

Gilberto Cuba wrote:
> And overloading of functions???

Transcript does not support overloading of built-in commands and functions.

Many years ago I went to the mat on this one with the inventor of the 
Rev engine, Scott Raney. His explanation was that one of the key
ways the Rev engine performs many tasks about an order of magnitude
faster than other xTalks is because he's very stingy with the token
search space; that is, the fewer types of tokens that need to go
through its internal symbol table the faster the overall exection.

He took a good look at built-in commands and functions and decided
they were taking up far more time than they were worth, so he designed
his interpreter/compiler to forbid the practice of overriding them.

I argued with him and argued with him and demanded he rethink the
decision. Surely he was a madman, I thought at the time, to take such
power away.

He replied with his characteristic good humor and patience, and laid
down the glove gently: "Find me one case where it's absolutely
necessary and I'll consider it."

I was never able to turn up a practical use which could not be achieved 
through other means.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From lewisbruce at rogers.com  Sat Nov 19 11:14:31 2005
From: lewisbruce at rogers.com (Bruce Lewis)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 11:14:31 -0500
Subject: Light text--Apparent cause
Message-ID: <p06230900bfa4ff1a8834@[192.168.123.153]>

According to this URL:

http://www.betalogue.com/2005/10/27/anti-aliasing-hall-of-shame-mac-os-xs-menu-bar/

there is a problem if colour is not used when anti-aliasing. I confirmed
that Revolution flds do not use colour to anti-alias in Mac OS 10.4.3. When
magnified, the legible text in Word or SuperCard shows the use of colour
and Revolution does not.

I believe this issue must have been introduced by OS 10.4.3.

I have made a Bugzilla report.

Bruce

At 9:05 PM -0500 11/16/05, Bruce Lewis wrote:
>I just installed Max OS X Tiger 10.4.3 and Revolution 2.6.1 on two
>different machines. One is a PowerBook and the other a power Mac, both with
>LCD displays.
>
>There seems to be a problem with the legibility of text in Revolution. The
>problem occurs throughout the program, including in the documentation. The
>problem occurs on both machines.
>
>It is worst in the fields in my stacks, which are mostly Times 14 point. It
>is not the system, since other programs are fine. I paste some text from a
>Revolution fld into MS Word and compare the two side by side. MS Word is
>fine and Revolution is barely legible.
>
>The difference is probably worse if I set smoothing to strong in the system
>preferences, but it is pronounced at any level.
>
>Any thoughts? Anyone else using a similar setup?


-- 
Bruce Lewis
Lewis & Collyer
160 John Street, Suite 401
Toronto, Ontario
Canada  M5V 2E5
(416) 598-4357
FAX (416) 598-1067
bruce at lewiscoll.com
nancy at lewiscoll.com
sandy at lewiscoll.com
joan at lewiscoll.com
eva at lewiscoll.com


From got at mindspring.com  Sat Nov 19 11:17:00 2005
From: got at mindspring.com (Gordon Tillman)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 10:17:00 -0600
Subject: Apache Server with RunRev stacks doing the processing?
In-Reply-To: <2BDEEFD0-4506-410F-AEDE-5B1F55FC22B7@kagi.com>
References: <BAY105-F25CAF80B1DD72FF6445F0AC3510@phx.gbl>
	<B877C604-E0A0-4483-8F13-BCE2A23C8F80@kagi.com>
	<B09029CE-2187-4D23-A794-3EB791E2B9F6@mindspring.com>
	<2BDEEFD0-4506-410F-AEDE-5B1F55FC22B7@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <49058171-007E-4D42-B12F-BAE3A9EDFD50@mindspring.com>

Howdy Kee,


On Nov 19, 2005, at 08:52, kee nethery wrote:

>> P.S. - If I get some time later today I will post a small sample  
>> for you.
>
> Yes please. Thanks.
>
> Kee

OK, got a sample posted for you here:

http://homepage.mac.com/gordyt/FileSharing14.html

It's the one called rr_test.  After you download and extract it you  
will see two files:

rr.php
rr_backend.rev

Make sure you have enabled PHP on your Mac.  Very simple to do. PHP  
is already installed.  Put the rr.php file somewhere you can get to  
it with your browser, for example, in your ~/Sites folder.

Open the rr_backend.rev stack in RR and click the Start Listening  
button.

Then, using your web browser, load the rr.php file.  You can do it  
any number of ways.  For example, you can pass in arguments in the  
get string like this:

http://localhost/rr.php?name=gordon&age=48&location=humble

Or you can create another page with a form on it and have the form  
invoke the rr.php script.

This should get you started.  Both the php and the rr is very simple  
and you should be able to adapt it to any type of function that you  
need.

--gordy

P.S. - holler if questions


From tom.cole at asu.edu  Sat Nov 19 12:02:04 2005
From: tom.cole at asu.edu (Tom Cole)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 10:02:04 -0700
Subject: Printing Question
Message-ID: <a901a6baf3590283c402a57e099a54a1@asu.edu>

In my software, students take a test, and the results are put in a 
variable which is put in a field to print.

I have the following script and one of the printers at work prints the 
first page nicely but the next page has the last test item from the 
first page and then prints double over most of everything. Is this 
script all right? It prints perfectly from my mac and from xp machines 
in our lab, but one of the printers in the office has this problem. Is 
it just a weird printer or am I doing something wrong that makes the 
first page okay and the second one a mess?

Perhaps someone has seen this kind of thing. I want it to print 
perfectly on any printer and can't see why it doesn't.

     if it is "print now" then
       put test into cd fld "printfield"
       revPrintField the name of cd field "printfield"
     end if

Thanks very much,
Tom in Arizona



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Nov 19 12:06:57 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 09:06:57 -0800
Subject: Printing Question
In-Reply-To: <a901a6baf3590283c402a57e099a54a1@asu.edu>
References: <a901a6baf3590283c402a57e099a54a1@asu.edu>
Message-ID: <437F5BB1.3060607@fourthworld.com>

Tom Cole wrote:
> In my software, students take a test, and the results are put in a 
> variable which is put in a field to print.
> 
> I have the following script and one of the printers at work prints the 
> first page nicely but the next page has the last test item from the 
> first page and then prints double over most of everything. Is this 
> script all right? It prints perfectly from my mac and from xp machines 
> in our lab, but one of the printers in the office has this problem. Is 
> it just a weird printer or am I doing something wrong that makes the 
> first page okay and the second one a mess?
> 
> Perhaps someone has seen this kind of thing. I want it to print 
> perfectly on any printer and can't see why it doesn't.
> 
>     if it is "print now" then
>       put test into cd fld "printfield"
>       revPrintField the name of cd field "printfield"
>     end if
> 
> Thanks very much,

The first thing to check with printing issues is that the computer 
showing the problem have the latest drivers for the printer being used. 
This can be especially relevant in cases where printing works fine on 
other computers.

It may not solve the problem, but at least it will narrow down possible 
causes.

In apps here I've found most printing issues specific to a single system 
go away when updating the printer driver.  Hopefully you'll be as lucky.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From frank at backtalk.com  Sat Nov 19 12:07:53 2005
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 09:07:53 -0800
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 26, Issue 73
In-Reply-To: <20051119065339.2AE61825496@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051119065339.2AE61825496@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <5b97dad71391ec16c02ac8e742aba565@backtalk.com>

Phil,

No, MD5 won't work...the service I want to talk to (Typepad) is Atom 
based, which requires an SHA-1 key to be calculated and passed in as 
part of the authentication header.

-- Frank

On Nov 18, 2005, at 10:53 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

> From: Phil Davis <davis.phil at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: SHA-1 algorithm in xTalk?
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <437E8980.7030108 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I don't know much about hashes - is SHA-1 enough better than Rev's
> md5digest to warrant paying someone to do it? Or will md5digest do what
> you need?
>
> Phil Davis
>
>
> Frank Leahy wrote:
>> Has anyone ported the SHA-1 algorithm to xTalk? (see
>> http://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/SHA-1.html for details)
>>
>> If not, would anyone be willing to port it for $$?
>>
>> Regards,
>> -- Frank



From frank at backtalk.com  Sat Nov 19 12:09:31 2005
From: frank at backtalk.com (Frank Leahy)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 09:09:31 -0800
Subject: SHA-1 algorithm
In-Reply-To: <20051119152756.BC316825527@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051119152756.BC316825527@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <3411461930eb064713ad2580e660a3bf@backtalk.com>

Sean,

An altBrowser license it will be!

Let me know when you have it working.

Thanks,
-- Frank

On Nov 19, 2005, at 7:27 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

> From: "Sean Shao" <shaosean at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: SHA-1 algorithm
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Message-ID: <BAY105-F25CAF80B1DD72FF6445F0AC3510 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
>> Has anyone ported the SHA-1 algorithm to xTalk? (see
>> http://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/SHA-1.html for details)
>
> After getting this message I went and converted the JavaScript code 
> into
> Transcript, but due to limitations with v2.0 I can't test it to make 
> certain
> that it does work 100%. When I go into work (either on Saturday or 
> Sunday)
> I'll test it there
>
>
>> If not, would anyone be willing to port it for $$?
>
> I could use an altBrowser license ;-)  but otherwise it'll just end up 
> on my
> website as a freebie for everyone to use..



From Camm29 at tesco.net  Sat Nov 19 13:02:11 2005
From: Camm29 at tesco.net (Camm29)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 18:02:11 -0000
Subject: Binary String to Enable Objects
References: <000e01c5ecfd$7c9ef380$0a01a8c0@mobile1>	<2F3E2553-239E-4FAD-87A7-EBD39E17B412@sosmartsoftware.com>	<437F3D53.8000709@tweedly.net><7.0.0.10.1.20051119071945.0195f350@pon.net>
	<437F4A0C.5030601@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <004801c5ed33$60ab9620$0a01a8c0@mobile1>

Great idea using ID's , thanks to all involved.
Camm29
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: Binary String to Enable Objects


> Rob Cozens wrote:
> > Hi Alex,
> >
> >> That's neat !  I would never have thought of using the IDs - I've
> >> never set an ID to a specific value
> >
> >
> > You can only set image ids: the ids of other controls cannot be changed.
>
> But you can use the altID property for the same effect.
>
> Object IDs and altIDs are checked in object layer order, like this:
>
> 1. Object #1 true ID
> 2. Object #2 altID
> 3. Object #3 true ID
> 4. Object #4 altID
> ...
>
> This does require some care to work with, as it's possible to set the
> altID of one object to the ID of another, so anything attempting to
> reference the second object by ID will actually find the first object.
>
> The range of numbers for altIDs goes up to 65535, and if you start with
> a number well above the number of objects in your stack plus a few
> thousand you should never have a conflict.
>
> Built-in IDs start at 1001 and all objects are apparently incremented
> from the same counter, so a new card will be 1002, a button added there
> will be 1003, etc.
>
> So if you know the sum of all objects will be fewer than 9000 (that
> would be a hefty project), you could safely start your altIDs at 10000.
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Managing Editor, revJournal
>   _______________________________________________________
>   Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Nov 19 13:35:27 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:35:27 -0600
Subject: Cmd-A doesn't work from Keyboard in Standalone
In-Reply-To: <76D22868-FD57-481F-8F55-67DCA99B9A35@conncoll.edu>
References: <6F4DE2C1-BF08-4D69-A93B-96326322B3E0@conncoll.edu>	<BFA39064.3003D%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<f99b52860511181250ia5eb12er6e2d6e6ce7778dd1@mail.gmail.com>
	<437E8FFF.2090101@hyperactivesw.com>
	<76D22868-FD57-481F-8F55-67DCA99B9A35@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <437F706F.1000103@hyperactivesw.com>

Charles Hartman wrote:
> For the test stack I just pulled a Scrolling List Field straight from  
> the tools palette. So List Behavior is true; multipleHilites is  false; 
> traversalOn is true. I see that the lockText is also true,  which seems 
> interesting. If you pull what you call "a regular list  field" from the 
> Tools palette, is that property false?

No, locktext is true. All list fields must have locktext set to true. 
Otherwise you don't get mouse messages in the field.

> If you have no  commandKey 
> handler at all, doesn't cmd-A select all the lines in the  list?

No, not on my system (10.3.9). If multipleHilites is false, and the 
field is a list field, multiple selections are not possible. That makes 
sense, since it's the reason for the multipleHilites property -- to 
specify how many lines can be selected. You can override this, of 
course, by scripting.

I just noticed that even with multipleHilites set to true, Cmd-A does 
not select all the lines in a list field. So I don't think that behavior 
is supported, at least, not on 10.3.9.


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From AbilityForms at aol.com  Sat Nov 19 13:52:13 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 13:52:13 EST
Subject: lock screen doesn't!
Message-ID: <242.1d70176.30b0ce5d@aol.com>

Hi everyone,

I'm using Mac OSX. Why is it that when I use the following script I get a 
flash of stack "otherStack"? I thought lock screen wouldn't allow that to happen.

on mouseUp
    lock screen
    push cd
    go stack "OtherStack"
    pop cd
    unlock screen
end mouseUp

Joe,
Orlando, Florida


From kee at kagi.com  Sat Nov 19 13:53:10 2005
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 10:53:10 -0800
Subject: Apache Server with RunRev stacks doing the processing?
In-Reply-To: <49058171-007E-4D42-B12F-BAE3A9EDFD50@mindspring.com>
References: <BAY105-F25CAF80B1DD72FF6445F0AC3510@phx.gbl>
	<B877C604-E0A0-4483-8F13-BCE2A23C8F80@kagi.com>
	<B09029CE-2187-4D23-A794-3EB791E2B9F6@mindspring.com>
	<2BDEEFD0-4506-410F-AEDE-5B1F55FC22B7@kagi.com>
	<49058171-007E-4D42-B12F-BAE3A9EDFD50@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <A8F2BA8D-24F9-4ECD-B7BF-B02C0767230E@kagi.com>

Gordon,

This is working. I've sent it data and received data back. Way cool,  
thanks.

I tried my Rev SOAP client and it looks like I'll need to experiment  
to extract the data from the SOAP data that gets sent, but this is an  
excellent start! Thank you.

Kee



On Nov 19, 2005, at 8:17 AM, Gordon Tillman wrote:

> Howdy Kee,
>
>
> On Nov 19, 2005, at 08:52, kee nethery wrote:
>
>>> P.S. - If I get some time later today I will post a small sample  
>>> for you.
>>
>> Yes please. Thanks.
>>
>> Kee
>
> OK, got a sample posted for you here:
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/gordyt/FileSharing14.html
>
> It's the one called rr_test.  After you download and extract it you  
> will see two files:
>
> rr.php
> rr_backend.rev
>
> Make sure you have enabled PHP on your Mac.  Very simple to do. PHP  
> is already installed.  Put the rr.php file somewhere you can get to  
> it with your browser, for example, in your ~/Sites folder.
>
> Open the rr_backend.rev stack in RR and click the Start Listening  
> button.
>
> Then, using your web browser, load the rr.php file.  You can do it  
> any number of ways.  For example, you can pass in arguments in the  
> get string like this:
>
> http://localhost/rr.php?name=gordon&age=48&location=humble
>
> Or you can create another page with a form on it and have the form  
> invoke the rr.php script.
>
> This should get you started.  Both the php and the rr is very  
> simple and you should be able to adapt it to any type of function  
> that you need.
>
> --gordy
>
> P.S. - holler if questions
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Nov 19 14:01:52 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 13:01:52 -0600
Subject: [slightly OT] using sudo -S via shell
In-Reply-To: <63BCFA79-E4F1-4514-93F9-C003C939A5D3@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <BFA4D2C0.30134%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/19/05 9:02 AM, "Ton Kuypers" <tkuypers at pandora.be> wrote:

> - How do I send the password in one line with the sudo command,
> because I can't seem to get this working from within the Terminal app.

Here's how... in this case I'm using sudo to kill a process (the id of which
is in tPID):

    put "#!/bin/sh" & cr into tScript
    put "pw="&tPassword & cr into tScript
    put "echo $pw | sudo -S kill -9" && tPID & cr after tScript
    get shell(tScript)


HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Nov 19 14:18:35 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 13:18:35 -0600
Subject: lock screen doesn't!
In-Reply-To: <242.1d70176.30b0ce5d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BFA4D6AB.30138%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/19/05 12:52 PM, "AbilityForms at aol.com" <AbilityForms at aol.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm using Mac OSX. Why is it that when I use the following script I get a
> flash of stack "otherStack"? I thought lock screen wouldn't allow that to
> happen.
> 
> on mouseUp
>     lock screen
>     push cd
>     go stack "OtherStack"
>     pop cd
>     unlock screen
> end mouseUp

Lock screen is really "lock window" and so only affects changes to the
current stack. What is the effect you're trying to achieve? Is "OtherStack"
another mainstack, or is it a substack? Is it open or closed at the time you
run this code?


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Nov 19 14:43:56 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 11:43:56 -0800
Subject: Overwrite functions...
In-Reply-To: <437F4CA7.1000606@fourthworld.com>
References: <000f01c5ecad$0df87050$1c037b98@p42600>	<A168522E-EED4-48D3-84A5-EBE279E5796E@danshafer.com>
	<003e01c5ecb2$1767a750$1c037b98@p42600>
	<437F4CA7.1000606@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <B9CC299E-CBF2-4FF7-81FB-D60D8BD8E741@danshafer.com>


On Nov 19, 2005, at 8:02 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I was never able to turn up a practical use which could not be  
> achieved through other means.

Not only that, but in languages where operator overloading is  
allowed, I'm told by pros that that is one of the largest single  
sources of bugs in software.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Nov 19 14:46:03 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 11:46:03 -0800
Subject: Overwrite functions...
In-Reply-To: <B9CC299E-CBF2-4FF7-81FB-D60D8BD8E741@danshafer.com>
References: <000f01c5ecad$0df87050$1c037b98@p42600>	<A168522E-EED4-48D3-84A5-EBE279E5796E@danshafer.com>	<003e01c5ecb2$1767a750$1c037b98@p42600>	<437F4CA7.1000606@fourthworld.com>
	<B9CC299E-CBF2-4FF7-81FB-D60D8BD8E741@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <437F80FB.2060901@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:
> 
> On Nov 19, 2005, at 8:02 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> I was never able to turn up a practical use which could not be  
>> achieved through other means.
>
> Not only that, but in languages where operator overloading is  allowed, 
> I'm told by pros that that is one of the largest single  sources of bugs 
> in software.

That was pretty much Raney's response, something along the lines of "Why 
slow things down just so you can shoot yourself in the foot?" :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From AbilityForms at aol.com  Sat Nov 19 15:38:20 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 15:38:20 EST
Subject: lock screen doesn't!
Message-ID: <1e.51cd946d.30b0e73c@aol.com>


In a message dated 11/19/05 2:19:47 PM, kray at sonsothunder.com writes:


> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I'm using Mac OSX. Why is it that when I use the following script I get a
> > flash of stack "otherStack"? I thought lock screen wouldn't allow that to
> > happen.
> >
> > on mouseUp
> >? ?? lock screen
> >? ?? push cd
> >? ?? go stack "OtherStack"
> >? ?? pop cd
> >? ?? unlock screen
> > end mouseUp
> 
> Lock screen is really "lock window" and so only affects changes to the
> current stack. What is the effect you're trying to achieve? Is "OtherStack"
> another mainstack, or is it a substack? Is it open or closed at the time you
> run this code?
> 
> Hi Ray,

"OtherStack" is another mainstack. It might be open or closed at the time I 
use the handler. Does that make a difference?

Joe
Orlando, Florida



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Nov 19 21:02:59 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 18:02:59 -0800
Subject: ANN: ArchiveSearch 1.71
Message-ID: <10735501167.20051119180259@ahsoftware.net>

All-

I took Xavier's suggestion seriously, and my Archive Search plugin now
allows the stripping of the last signature if it's properly formed,
that being "-- " (dash dash space) on a line by itself. In my
RevOnline user space (mwieder) or at
http://www.ahsoftware.net/ArchiveSearch.html

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Nov 19 23:57:56 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 22:57:56 -0600
Subject: lock screen doesn't!
In-Reply-To: <1e.51cd946d.30b0e73c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BFA55E74.3016D%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/19/05 2:38 PM, "AbilityForms at aol.com" <AbilityForms at aol.com> wrote:

> 
> In a message dated 11/19/05 2:19:47 PM, kray at sonsothunder.com writes:
> 
> 
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> 
>>> I'm using Mac OSX. Why is it that when I use the following script I get a
>>> flash of stack "otherStack"? I thought lock screen wouldn't allow that to
>>> happen.
>>> 
>>> on mouseUp
>>> ? ?? lock screen
>>> ? ?? push cd
>>> ? ?? go stack "OtherStack"
>>> ? ?? pop cd
>>> ? ?? unlock screen
>>> end mouseUp
>> 
>> Lock screen is really "lock window" and so only affects changes to the
>> current stack. What is the effect you're trying to achieve? Is "OtherStack"
>> another mainstack, or is it a substack? Is it open or closed at the time you
>> run this code?
>> 
>> Hi Ray,
> 
> "OtherStack" is another mainstack. It might be open or closed at the time I
> use the handler. Does that make a difference?

Not really, but I'm still not sure what effect you're trying to achieve...
if you're in stack A, push the current card, open stack "B" with "go" (which
puts "B" on top of "A") and then pop the card, you go back to stack "A",
with stack "B" behind "A". Is this what you're trying to accomplish? The
appearance of a stack opening *behind* another stack?


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From AbilityForms at aol.com  Sun Nov 20 07:05:02 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 07:05:02 EST
Subject: lock screen doesn't!
Message-ID: <242.1e99fae.30b1c06e@aol.com>


In a message dated 11/19/05 11:58:23 PM, kray at sonsothunder.com writes:


> >>> Hi everyone,
> >>>
> >>> I'm using Mac OSX. Why is it that when I use the following script I get 
> a
> >>> flash of stack "otherStack"? I thought lock screen wouldn't allow that 
> to
> >>> happen.
> >>>
> >>> on mouseUp
> >>> ? ?? lock screen
> >>> ? ?? push cd
> >>> ? ?? go stack "OtherStack"
> >>> ? ?? pop cd
> >>> ? ?? unlock screen
> >>> end mouseUp
> >>
> >> Lock screen is really "lock window" and so only affects changes to the
> >> current stack. What is the effect you're trying to achieve? Is 
> "OtherStack"
> >> another mainstack, or is it a substack? Is it open or closed at the time 
> you
> >> run this code?
> >>
> >> Hi Ray,
> >
> > "OtherStack" is another mainstack. It might be open or closed at the time 
> I
> > use the handler. Does that make a difference?
> 
> Not really, but I'm still not sure what effect you're trying to achieve...
> if you're in stack A, push the current card, open stack "B" with "go" (which
> puts "B" on top of "A") and then pop the card, you go back to stack "A",
> with stack "B" behind "A". Is this what you're trying to accomplish? The
> appearance of a stack opening *behind* another stack?
> 

Hi Again Ray,

No, I go to other mainstacks frequently to collect data for insertion into 
the starting stack. I don't want to display the other mainstack though while 
this is going on. I can't just refer to these other stacks though because I have 
to organize the data first. I don't think I can do that remotely. Things like 
marking and sorting stacks that aren't open aren't possible, are they?

Joe


From gefisher at mac.com  Sun Nov 20 09:17:57 2005
From: gefisher at mac.com (Glenn E. Fisher)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 08:17:57 -0600
Subject: Apache Server with RunRev stacks doing the processing?
Message-ID: <fb30e23c97f0263d3dec2db070913050@mac.com>

Gordy,
Thanks for your post.  It works great on my old system G4 450 MHz OSX 
10.3.9.
It's post like this that is what it is all about.
Thanks again,
Glenn

> OK, got a sample posted for you here:
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/gordyt/FileSharing14.html
>
> It's the one called rr_test.  After you download and extract it you 
> will see two files:
>
> rr.php
> rr_backend.rev
>
> Make sure you have enabled PHP on your Mac.  Very simple to do. PHP is 
> already installed.  Put the rr.php file somewhere you can get to it 
> with your browser, for example, in your ~/Sites folder.
>
> Open the rr_backend.rev stack in RR and click the Start Listening 
> button.
>
> Then, using your web browser, load the rr.php file.  You can do it any 
> number of ways.  For example, you can pass in arguments in the get 
> string like this:
>
> http://localhost/rr.php?name=gordon&age=48&location=humble
>
> Or you can create another page with a form on it and have the form 
> invoke the rr.php script.
>
> This should get you started.  Both the php and the rr is very simple 
> and you should be able to adapt it to any type of function that you 
> need.
>
> --gordy
>
> P.S. - holler if questions

--
Glenn E. Fisher	University of Houston - Retired
22402 Diane Dr.	Spring, Tx 77373
gfisher4 at houston.rr.com 	http://www.uh.edu/~fisher
http://home.houston.rr.com/thegefishers/
http://homepage.mac.com/gefisher


From rgriffit at ctc.net  Sun Nov 20 09:26:02 2005
From: rgriffit at ctc.net (Raymond E. Griffith)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 09:26:02 -0500
Subject: lock screen doesn't!
In-Reply-To: <242.1e99fae.30b1c06e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BFA5F1AA.2C0%rgriffit@ctc.net>

I wonder if adding the following might achieve what you are looking for:

 on mouseUp
   open invisible stack "OtherStack" to false
 end mouseUp

I don't think you'd need to lock or unlock the screen. Being invisible, you
would not see the stack, so no flash, and no need to push or pop the card
(though you might loose focus on your stack -- you might have to click on
something to get it back, as in
   click at 1,1  )

Unfortunately I can't test it. My iMac is having its hard drive replaced (a
pain in the pattotie, I assure you). But opening a stack invisible loads it
into memory, and prepositioning it to do whatever task you have for it.

There are other ways to handle access to data stored in other stacks,
though.

For example, 

  start using stack "OtherStack"

gives you access to its main script (not the other scripts, I understand).

But you can access its data with a script unique to the stack it is in,
something on the order of

 function AccessOtherStack fieldname,tcardname
   return field(fieldname) of card(tcardname) of stack(OtherStack)
 end AccessOtherStack

You could make it more sophisticated, of course. But there are lots of ways
to have access to stacks without making them visible to others.

I wish you well on your project.

Raymond E. Griffith


On 11/20/05 7:05 AM, "AbilityForms at aol.com" <AbilityForms at aol.com> wrote:

> 
> In a message dated 11/19/05 11:58:23 PM, kray at sonsothunder.com writes:
> 
> 
>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm using Mac OSX. Why is it that when I use the following script I get
>> a
>>>>> flash of stack "otherStack"? I thought lock screen wouldn't allow that
>> to
>>>>> happen.
>>>>> 
>>>>> on mouseUp
>>>>> ? ?? lock screen
>>>>> ? ?? push cd
>>>>> ? ?? go stack "OtherStack"
>>>>> ? ?? pop cd
>>>>> ? ?? unlock screen
>>>>> end mouseUp
>>>> 
>>>> Lock screen is really "lock window" and so only affects changes to the
>>>> current stack. What is the effect you're trying to achieve? Is
>> "OtherStack"
>>>> another mainstack, or is it a substack? Is it open or closed at the time
>> you
>>>> run this code?
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Ray,
>>> 
>>> "OtherStack" is another mainstack. It might be open or closed at the time
>> I
>>> use the handler. Does that make a difference?
>> 
>> Not really, but I'm still not sure what effect you're trying to achieve...
>> if you're in stack A, push the current card, open stack "B" with "go" (which
>> puts "B" on top of "A") and then pop the card, you go back to stack "A",
>> with stack "B" behind "A". Is this what you're trying to accomplish? The
>> appearance of a stack opening *behind* another stack?
>> 
> 
> Hi Again Ray,
> 
> No, I go to other mainstacks frequently to collect data for insertion into
> the starting stack. I don't want to display the other mainstack though while
> this is going on. I can't just refer to these other stacks though because I
> have 
> to organize the data first. I don't think I can do that remotely. Things like
> marking and sorting stacks that aren't open aren't possible, are they?
> 
> Joe
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From got at mindspring.com  Sun Nov 20 09:48:36 2005
From: got at mindspring.com (Gordon Tillman)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 08:48:36 -0600
Subject: Apache Server with RunRev stacks doing the processing?
In-Reply-To: <fb30e23c97f0263d3dec2db070913050@mac.com>
References: <fb30e23c97f0263d3dec2db070913050@mac.com>
Message-ID: <59A4EA00-2F05-4AD6-B001-788127884F65@mindspring.com>

Glenn you are very welcome,

On Nov 20, 2005, at 08:17, Glenn E. Fisher wrote:

> Gordy,
> Thanks for your post.  It works great on my old system G4 450 MHz  
> OSX 10.3.9.
> It's post like this that is what it is all about.
> Thanks again,
> Glenn

Gotta tell ya: You take all the cool stuff that comes already  
installed in an OS X machine and combine that with RR being just drop- 
dead easy to use, there ain't no end to the things you can crank out...

--gordy

From psahores at easynet.fr  Sun Nov 20 09:52:53 2005
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 15:52:53 +0100
Subject: Apache Server with RunRev stacks doing the processing?
In-Reply-To: <AA7775AA-9C96-4196-9BF7-A22F910F68F3@kagi.com>
References: <BAY105-F25CAF80B1DD72FF6445F0AC3510@phx.gbl>
	<B877C604-E0A0-4483-8F13-BCE2A23C8F80@kagi.com>
	<D9095770-A212-4822-9C1F-1537B7E5CA9C@easynet.fr>
	<7A5D96C8-6C45-4DC5-BE70-96A2F8B9A5DC@kagi.com>
	<9E5DABD0-9FF2-47CD-A789-5DF57385149D@easynet.fr>
	<AA7775AA-9C96-4196-9BF7-A22F910F68F3@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <44DCD24C-E3ED-45DF-A2D9-6FFD3A191A6B@easynet.fr>

Dear Kee,

Many Thanks for this all ! It's yet online, because your usefull  
rewritting and kind help. Let me know what you expect to build in  
using Rev's applications distibued apps. If some help in about  
detailled Tiger or Linux set-up can let you speed-up your  
deployments, just ask. I provided such kind of services before, even  
in configuring remote servers from ground in tunneled ssh2/admin mode.

We can realy hope that your work will help more of our XTalker's  
community to investigate the power of Rev in about rock-solid web and  
rich-media "n-tier" sockets driven apps.

The next steeps ? Going head in mixing AJAX  blog's front-end portals  
(DotClear is, there, a first class candidate tool), Rev application's  
servers, PostgreSQL, Ka-Map/Mapserver, DSS,... powerfull back-ends.

Kind Regards,
Pierre :-)


"A partir du moment o? on ?volue dans une activit? o? il n'y a pas de  
place pour la fanfaronnade, on est oblig? de tomber sur des  
personnages d'exception. Tous ces gens sont au limiteur." Pierre  
Dupasquier


>
> On Nov 19, 2005, at 4:26 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>
>> Hi Kee,
>>
>> It would be very kind from you to provide such an english language  
>> version of this tutorial.
>
> Attached
>
> <insead_en.zip>
>> Be sure that i will update the site with your translation and  
>> personal credit if you decide to gohead with your project.
>
> :-) I do not have the knowledge that you have so it is possible  
> that I altered some text and changed it's meaning so that the words  
> are now wrong. You might want someone else to read through it just  
> to make sure I didn't harm what you were saying. It's OK if you  
> want to say I harmed your words :-) but you do not have to.
>
>> I would really appreciate your help in making Revolution best  
>> wieved as a rock-solid alternative to best knowed "n-tier"  
>> professional-grade developpment solutions. As web application's  
>> server, Revolution let us fly around Tomcat's or JBoss based  
>> solutions successfully, even about security tasks (proxy apps),  
>> PostgreSQL access or the amount of supported connections/seconds.
>
> I agree.
> Thanks,
> kee
>
>
>>
>> Best Regards from the old Europ ;-)
>>
>>> Thank you for your web site. Would you mind if I edited the  
>>> english language version and sent it back to you? It's a very  
>>> good tutorial.
>>> Kee Nethery
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 19, 2005, at 6:54 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kee,
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps would you be interested in having an eye on the tutorial  
>>>> i wrote sometimes ago about the subject you are querying about :
>>>>
>>>> <http://istream.homeunix.com/insead/index.html>
>>>>
>>>> All my apologies about the "english-like" issue ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 19 nov. 05 ? 14:36, kee nethery a ?crit :
>>>>
>>>>> I'm looking for a way to have an Apache server catch a request  
>>>>> (will be using SOAP which is basically just a bunch of XML),  
>>>>> feed it to a RunRev stack that I can debug using the RunRev  
>>>>> development environment (ie not using a text file with XTalk in  
>>>>> it), and then format a reply (more XML) and feed it back to the  
>>>>> client that sent the request. I want to be able to watch the  
>>>>> stack visually process the request so that I can step through  
>>>>> the code as it processes a request and debug it quickly.
>>>>>
>>>>> My preference is to run this on Mac OS X if that makes a  
>>>>> difference and my preference is to use HTTPS as the transport  
>>>>> method, not HTTP (which means I really do need to use Apache as  
>>>>> the web server). Is anyone doing something like this OR does  
>>>>> anyone have suggestions on how I might implement this.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm assuming I'd set up HTTPS on Apache to catch the SOAP  
>>>>> requests if that is possible. The question is how do I transfer  
>>>>> the data that Apache receives to a RunRev stack and then how do  
>>>>> I send it back? I do this today with Hypercard using Jason  
>>>>> Sendman's acgiDispatcher that feeds Apache gathered data via  
>>>>> AppleScript to an application stack but if there is a more  
>>>>> elegant way to do this without going through AppleScript, that  
>>>>> would be better. The main thing is I want to retain the RunRev  
>>>>> development environment so that I can quickly modify and  
>>>>> troubleshoot the code.
>>>>>
>>>>> Suggestions and links welcome. Be happy to pay someone to walk  
>>>>> me through this setup if that gets me up and running quickly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kee Nethery
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
>>>>
>>>> 100, rue de Paris
>>>> F - 77140 Nemours
>>>>
>>>> psahores+ at +easynet.fr
>>>> sc+ at +sahores-conseil.com
>>>>
>>>> GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
>>>> Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
>>>> Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.sahores-conseil.com/>
>>>>
>>>> WEB/VoD/ACID-DB services over IP
>>>> "Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"




From hutch at recursive.ca  Sun Nov 20 10:23:06 2005
From: hutch at recursive.ca (Bob Hutchison)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 10:23:06 -0500
Subject: ANN: TreeView in Revolution!!
Message-ID: <8B7D8883-2D2E-4246-9DD5-5829E13602A1@recursive.ca>


Hi,

I'm new to Revolution (like today new) and I have to admit that I was  
a bit surprised that there is no tree view in Revolution. Lack of a  
tree isn't going to kill me, but it would be nice. I'm also a little  
surprised that nobody has commented on this post... what am I missing?

At any rate, the URL below doesn't seem to work for me. Is there an  
alternative URL?

Thanks,
Bob


> I just got an email from Luis L. Rod?guez Oro,
> who asked me to offer his stack to the list. I
> guess he feels  his English isn't good enough.
>
> I don't know about that - looks fine to me - but
> anyway his stack "TreeView in Revolution" was
> nicely done, and my normally crusty self felt I
> owed it to the list to get it out there.
>
> It's a remarkable, well-written and visually
> pretty Tree View in Revolution, with routines to
> import tab delimited text files.
> Well-commented code, but of course in Spanish. Reads pretty easy  
> anyway.
>
> For now I'll place it on my server at this URL. You'll need to  
> unstuff it.
>
> http://upload.barncard.com/TreeView2.5.zip
>
>
> >From: Luis L. Rod?guez Oro <luisr at ispscu.rimed.cu>
> >Subject: TreeView in Revolution!!
> >Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 15:19:29 -0500
> >
> >Hello.
> >
> >Could you send the attachment to your revolution
> >List? I don't speak much english! :(
> >Report the Bugs to my emails
> >
> >Thank you very much
> >
> >Best Regard
> >Luis L. Rodr?guez Oro
> ><mailto:darkroll0x001 at yahoo.es>darkroll0x001 at yahoo.es
> >
> -- 
> stephen barncard
> s a n  f r a n c i s c o
> - - -  - - - - - - - - -
>
----
Bob Hutchison          -- blogs at <http://www.recursive.ca/hutch/>
Recursive Design Inc.  -- <http://www.recursive.ca/>
Raconteur              -- <http://www.raconteur.info/>




From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Nov 20 11:00:33 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 16:00:33 +0000
Subject: ANN: TreeView in Revolution!!
In-Reply-To: <8B7D8883-2D2E-4246-9DD5-5829E13602A1@recursive.ca>
References: <8B7D8883-2D2E-4246-9DD5-5829E13602A1@recursive.ca>
Message-ID: <43809DA1.6060405@tweedly.net>

Bob Hutchison wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> I'm new to Revolution (like today new) and I have to admit that I was  
> a bit surprised that there is no tree view in Revolution. Lack of a  
> tree isn't going to kill me, but it would be nice. I'm also a little  
> surprised that nobody has commented on this post... what am I missing?
>
> At any rate, the URL below doesn't seem to work for me. Is there an  
> alternative URL?
>
I have a vague feeling there was a follow-up with another URL - but 
can't track it down.

There are a couple of other treeview controls .... I haven't used any of 
them, so can't recommend any one over the others.

>>/ Does anyone know where I can get a stack or external that implements a
>/>/ treeview control? I've seen references on the various runrev  
>/>/ resources sites
>/>/ but cannot seem to pinpoint an example.
>/>/
>/<http://revolution.lexicall.org/stacks_education.php>
>Scroll to the bottom of the page to find Marielle Lange's Tree View
>
>OR
>
><http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Downloads.htm>
>where you can find the Altuit XML TreeView List Control.
>  
>

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net

-------------- next part --------------
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/175 - Release Date: 18/11/2005

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Nov 20 13:20:07 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 12:20:07 -0600
Subject: lock screen doesn't!
In-Reply-To: <BFA5F1AA.2C0%rgriffit@ctc.net>
Message-ID: <BFA61A77.301E7%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/20/05 8:26 AM, "Raymond E. Griffith" <rgriffit at ctc.net> wrote:

> I wonder if adding the following might achieve what you are looking for:
> 
>  on mouseUp
>    open invisible stack "OtherStack" to false

Actually you don't need the "to false" part of this (I'm sure it was a
copy/paste error)... but Raymond's right that this would be a good way to
get the data you need... here's how it works:

If you execute 'open invisible stack "OtherStack"', Rev will open the stack
and make it the stack that has the focus, so you can then use phrases like
"this stack" to refer to it.

So I think if you change your "go" to "go invisible" (or "go inv") you can
accomplish what you're looking for, and take out the lock screens, so it
looks like this:

on mouseUp
? ?? push cd
? ?? go inv stack "OtherStack"
    -- do what you want to do with "OtherStack"
? ?? pop cd
end mouseUp


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Nov 20 13:50:56 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 10:50:56 -0800
Subject: [slightly OT] using sudo -S via shell
In-Reply-To: <BFA4D2C0.30134%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BFA4D2C0.30134%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <662484502.20051120105056@ahsoftware.net>

Ken-

Saturday, November 19, 2005, 11:01:52 AM, you wrote:

> Here's how... in this case I'm using sudo to kill a process (the id of which
> is in tPID):

>     put "#!/bin/sh" & cr into tScript
>     put "pw="&tPassword & cr into tScript
>     put "echo $pw | sudo -S kill -9" && tPID & cr after tScript
>     get shell(tScript)

And, obviously, that second line should say "after" tScript...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From brucegregory at earthlink.net  Sun Nov 20 14:33:35 2005
From: brucegregory at earthlink.net (Greg Smith)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 12:33:35 -0700
Subject: You Either Think Graphically or You Don't
Message-ID: <4380CF8F.2050206@earthlink.net>

I really don't want to stir up a debate, but I feel lost in today's 
world of application creation.

What kind of application do you want to make?

What kind of appication like you want to make is already out there by 
the dozens?

Why make a duplicate of an application that exists and already does most 
of what you want?

Why spend months/years learning to develop something that you could buy 
for relatively little money from someone else?

Is your idea really that much better than one that has already been put 
into code?

Why "code" at all?

Has the wheel really been invented over and over again?

Why is it so hard to make an application without re-inventing something 
that has already been made thousands of times?

With all of this talk about object oriented, reusable code, why does it 
still take so long to produce anything really useful or unique?

Why does everyone keep inventing new database software?

Why don't game creators usually finish what they start?

Why don't more people use Revolution to develop modern style games?

Why can't most artists learn to code?  Why don't most artists even want 
to try to learn to code?

I'm an artist and an animator who wants to make his art "do something", 
but I loathe programming, what can I do, anyway?  Can Revolution help me?

How come I can't think like a machine?


Well, there it is.

Greg Smith



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Sun Nov 20 14:57:13 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 20:57:13 +0100
Subject: You Either Think Graphically or You Don't
In-Reply-To: <4380CF8F.2050206@earthlink.net>
References: <4380CF8F.2050206@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <B39D796F-964B-414F-980E-7F736D2321F7@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Greg,

Don't confuse ideas and means :-)
Have an Idea without thinking of the means needed to realise it.
The Idea id the only thing that counts.
Check it against the market. If it does exist, that a bad idea.
When you will have got the idea that does not exist yet and that  
makes you insomniac then search the best tool to make it a reality.
Could be Rev...

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 20 nov. 05 ? 20:33, Greg Smith a ?crit :

> I really don't want to stir up a debate, but I feel lost in today's  
> world of application creation.
>
> What kind of application do you want to make?
>
> What kind of appication like you want to make is already out there  
> by the dozens?
>
> Why make a duplicate of an application that exists and already does  
> most of what you want?
>
> Why spend months/years learning to develop something that you could  
> buy for relatively little money from someone else?
>
> Is your idea really that much better than one that has already been  
> put into code?
>
> Why "code" at all?
>
> Has the wheel really been invented over and over again?
>
> Why is it so hard to make an application without re-inventing  
> something that has already been made thousands of times?
>
> With all of this talk about object oriented, reusable code, why  
> does it still take so long to produce anything really useful or  
> unique?
>
> Why does everyone keep inventing new database software?
>
> Why don't game creators usually finish what they start?
>
> Why don't more people use Revolution to develop modern style games?
>
> Why can't most artists learn to code?  Why don't most artists even  
> want to try to learn to code?
>
> I'm an artist and an animator who wants to make his art "do  
> something", but I loathe programming, what can I do, anyway?  Can  
> Revolution help me?
>
> How come I can't think like a machine?
>
>
> Well, there it is.
>
> Greg Smith

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Nov 20 15:17:41 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 14:17:41 -0600
Subject: [slightly OT] using sudo -S via shell
In-Reply-To: <662484502.20051120105056@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <BFA63605.301F3%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/20/05 12:50 PM, "Mark Wieder" <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:

> Ken-
> 
> Saturday, November 19, 2005, 11:01:52 AM, you wrote:
> 
>> Here's how... in this case I'm using sudo to kill a process (the id of which
>> is in tPID):
> 
>>     put "#!/bin/sh" & cr into tScript
>>     put "pw="&tPassword & cr into tScript
>>     put "echo $pw | sudo -S kill -9" && tPID & cr after tScript
>>     get shell(tScript)
> 
> And, obviously, that second line should say "after" tScript...

Actually it's funny you mention that... it has worked for me with that error
in place, so perhaps the default shell I've been using works just as well as
sh.... anyway, you're right though - it should be "after".

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com




From garretthylltun at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 15:47:04 2005
From: garretthylltun at gmail.com (Garrett Hylltun)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 12:47:04 -0800
Subject: You Either Think Graphically or You Don't
In-Reply-To: <4380CF8F.2050206@earthlink.net>
References: <4380CF8F.2050206@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <7A21E1FD-B28B-44BF-8267-F9E0E3D7FC9B@gmail.com>


On Nov 20, 2005, at 11:33 AM, Greg Smith wrote:

> I really don't want to stir up a debate, but I feel lost in today's  
> world of application creation.

It's called human nature.  Just because one person climbed the  
mountain, doesn't mean you can't climb the same mountain.  It's a  
challenge for our own nature to try and improve upon what already exist.

Why do we see new cars every year, because someone came up with a new  
design and better features.

Hey, where there's a will, there's a way :-)

Personally, it's more a challenge for my mind, food for my brain.   
It's a hobby for me and not a business.  Most people like to sit in a  
recliner and watch a movie for relaxation, or read a book, but I pump  
out graphics and source codes for relaxation.

If you see no purpose, then you should find something else that gives  
you purpose.  Maybe at one time you felt you had purpose in  
programming, but if it's since left you, then don't try to force  
yourself to stick with it, it'll only give you a distaste for  
programming.

-Garrett


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 17:33:37 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:33:37 +1000
Subject: You Either Think Graphically or You Don't
In-Reply-To: <4380CF8F.2050206@earthlink.net>
References: <4380CF8F.2050206@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511201433n770a9b49ka37592b6aecb15a9@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/21/05, Greg Smith <brucegregory at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I really don't want to stir up a debate, but I feel lost in today's
> world of application creation.
>
> What kind of application do you want to make?
>
> What kind of appication like you want to make is already out there by
> the dozens?
>
-- snip --
>
> I'm an artist and an animator who wants to make his art "do something",
> but I loathe programming, what can I do, anyway?  Can Revolution help me?
>
> How come I can't think like a machine?
>
>

Hi Greg,

You raise some interesting points, but I believe there are answers to
most of them. I don't know about the other people on this list, but
most of my programming time goes into developing customised business
software. There are lots of general packages around, but they can
almost never be tailored to a specific business model without making a
lot of compromises. I can write a program specifically for a company's
needs. The users don't have to learn to work their way around the
unwanted features of a major package and they don't have to jump
through hoops to make the software do what they actually need to do
every day.

Apart from that, the main focus of my programming is utilities that
may only be used once, but make my job or someone else's job, easier.

Why does it take so long to produce anything? That depends on your
experience as well as your needs - I can make a single use utility in
a few minutes, but I wouldn't want anyone else to have to use it as it
will contain no error trapping, no documentation and the interface
will be a complete mess. Making a complete application takes a lot
longer. There will be sections of the code that I can grab from
previous projects or from examples on this list, but a lot will have
to be written from scratch. Since there is virtually no limit to the
different tasks a program can be asked to do, it is not possible to
have all the sections pre-assembled like Lego bricks, especially if
trying to produce something "unique". Testing, documenting and
allowing for user error in all it's possible forms will take a long
time and must be done well if you are hoping to produce a quality
product.

Part of the reason people keep inventing new database software is that
the existing software doesn't meet their exact needs. I would qualify
this as "new database interface software" rather than new database
software as there are a few really good database engines available now
which can be used in multiple ways if people write interfaces for
them.

As regards games, I would dearly love to write games, but although I
enjoy playing games, I don't have the imagination to design a game
that would repay my efforts, so I stick to business & utility software
where I know I have the skills to make a living.

Finally, most of us are here because we love it. Programming is the
ultimate puzzle and solving different parts of it every day gives
great pleasure. If you are not one of those people who enjoys this
sort of thing, then I recommend that you find yourself a partner.
Programmers are often not very artistic as can be seen from some of
the interfaces that have been designed. Why don't you stick to the
design side of things and find a programmer to make it "do something"?

And finally, the reason you can't think like a machine is because you
aren't one :-) You are something much better - a creative, reasoning
human being.

HTH,
Sarah


From brucegregory at earthlink.net  Sun Nov 20 17:52:43 2005
From: brucegregory at earthlink.net (Greg Smith)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 15:52:43 -0700
Subject: Either You Think Graphically or You Don't
Message-ID: <4380FE3B.4060805@earthlink.net>

Pierre:

Very inspiring.  I'll have to look into it.

Thank you,

Greg Smith



From mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk  Sun Nov 20 17:56:15 2005
From: mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 22:56:15 +0000
Subject: You Either Think Graphically or You Don't
In-Reply-To: <4380CF8F.2050206@earthlink.net>
References: <4380CF8F.2050206@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4380FF0F.5050706@harbourhost.co.uk>

Greg Smith wrote:
> I really don't want to stir up a debate, but I feel lost in today's 
> world of application creation.
> 

It would be strange if you did not feel lost in it ;-) It's a very large 
place.
But if you don't want to stir up a debate - why post :-) ?

> Why does everyone keep inventing new database software?
> 

Either to persecute us, or possibly because they would like to be as 
rich as Larry Ellison.

> Why don't more people use Revolution to develop modern style games?
> 

Perhaps there are better tools for that.

> Why can't most artists learn to code?  Why don't most artists even want 
> to try to learn to code?
> 
> I'm an artist and an animator who wants to make his art "do something", 
> but I loathe programming, what can I do, anyway?  Can Revolution help me?
> 

Maybe but not overnight, not without effort, and not if you expect the 
medium to behave as something other than itself.

> How come I can't think like a machine?
> 
> 
> Well, there it is.
> 
> Greg Smith

Because machines don't think. ;-)

Maybe you would be interested in Michael Atavar's e-says 
<http://www.e-says.com/>. They are mainly simple web-based text pieces, 
some more successful than others. They are interesting and stimulating 
to me because they use the medium of the web-page for what it is, 
creatively exploiting its intrinsic virtue, without trying to make it be 
like television or something it is not, which is what almost everybody 
else seems to want to do. One piece of his, "DUOLC" was commissioned by 
a .org that I was part of. <http://www.e-says.com/duolc/>
Michael's work seems simple, but I think Michael takes on technology and 
wins by refusing to be overawed by it, using the parts of it that he can 
relate to, and insisting that it serve his creative message.

Martin Baxter


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 20 18:19:04 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 15:19:04 -0800
Subject: You Either Think Graphically or You Don't
In-Reply-To: <4380CF8F.2050206@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BFA64468.30BCE%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

I suppose one way to answer you is to ask a few questions in return....
I am a programmer-type of guy so I have these questions for you.

> I really don't want to stir up a debate, but I feel lost in today's
> world of IMAGE creation.
> 
> What kind of GRAPHIC do you want to make?
> 
> What kind of graphic like you want to make is already out there by
> the dozens?
> 
> Why make a duplicate of an graphic that exists and already does most
> of what you want?
> 
> Why spend months/years learning to develop something that you could buy
> for relatively little money from image supplier?
> 
> Is your image really that much better than one that has already been put
> into graphic excellence?
> 
> Why modify/create graphics at all?
> 
> Has the image really been invented over and over again?
> 
> Why is it so hard to make an image without re-inventing something
> that has already been made thousands of times?
> 
> Why does everyone keep inventing new graphic manipulation software?
> 
> Why can't most people learn to make good graphics?  Why don't most programmers
even want to try to learn to Photohsop, tiff, gif, color spaces, filters, bezier
curves,  layers, cymk, vector graphics, Pantone, transparency, masking, fonts,
timelines, audio sync, sound formats, players? and spend months/years learning?
> 
> How come I can't think like a someone who makes things look really good?
> 
> Well, there it is.
> 
Jim Ault
Las Vegas




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Nov 20 19:42:56 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 16:42:56 -0800
Subject: You Either Think Graphically or You Don't
In-Reply-To: <4380CF8F.2050206@earthlink.net>
References: <4380CF8F.2050206@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <43811810.2090000@fourthworld.com>

Happy musings for a Sunday; seems like a good time, I'll bite:

Greg Smith wrote:
> What kind of appication like you want to make is already out there by 
> the dozens?
> Why make a duplicate of an application that exists and already does most 
> of what you want?

versiontracker.com and download.com will tell you how saturated the 
market is for the type of app you want to make.  That a market may seem 
saturated may not necessarily be the case if you can bring something 
compellingly unique to the table.


> Why spend months/years learning to develop something that you could buy 
> for relatively little money from someone else?

If it's truly something you can but off the shelf, don't do it unless 
you do for the sake of doing it.  If it's just for the sake of having it 
you can usually have it for less off the shelf.

I make a lot of my own stuff because I have special needs.  For example, 
there are several hundred text editors out there, but I've tried them 
all and none of them do everything I want so I'm making my own.  Part of 
the benefit of making my own is that it give me lots of parts I can 
reuse in other apps for clients, so it has an exponential long-term 
benefit as well as the satisfaction of a tool that thinks exactly like I do.

> Why "code" at all?

Some of us can't NOT code.  It's like writing, or painting, or anything 
else:  the ones who can't stop themselves from doing it tend to do well, 
if for no other reason than they're not doing anything else. :)

> Has the wheel really been invented over and over again?

That's what the they thought until they made a turbine out of it and 
called it a jet engine.  There's always room for innovation.  It's 
bounds are as limitless as the human imagination.

Two guys in a garage founded Hewlett Packard, revolutionizing the tech 
industry.

Two guys in an apartment used HP parts to found Apple Computer, 
revolutionizing the computer industry.

Two guys in a house a few hundred miles north used Apple computers to 
make Myst, revolutionizing the game industry.

The next revolution is waiting to be discovered, perhaps by two readers 
of this list in a garage somewhere.


> Why is it so hard to make an application without re-inventing something 
> that has already been made thousands of times?

...or a painting that hasn't already been painted, or a story that 
hasn't already been told....

> With all of this talk about object oriented, reusable code, why does it 
> still take so long to produce anything really useful or unique?

Two reasons:

1. C++ isn't portable, no matter how many academic papers were written 
about that in the '80s.

2. Code isn't where creativity comes from; it's the other way around.


> Why does everyone keep inventing new database software?

If you think about it, any collection of things with common properties 
is a database.  There are a lot of things in this world, and only so 
many ways to describe and manage them.

I've been working on my own simple database engine because I needed 
something that works everywhere Rev works, had zero licensing fees, and 
was simple to plug in and use. It doesn't do well with large data sets, 
but then again most of the things I need to manage never come close 
50,000 items; most are just a few thousand, or a few hundred, or a dozen.

So having a single way to define, store, and retrieve data has been a 
worthwhile investment for me, since just about every app needs to store 
and retrieve data.

You start off with generalized read/write routines, then add handlers 
for defining and managing different types of data (file references, 
image data, dates, etc.), and before you know if you've written a modest 
DBMS. :)

And storage is only part of a complete breakfast, the other half being 
binding it to controls for display.  Apple's Core Data handles that well 
-- on OS X only.  Rolling my own storage mechanism with a binding sysem 
lets me get through the day as easily as an XCode programmer, but for 
every platform Rev supports.

So that's why I did it.  Maybe folks who make DB engines are all just 
crazy and have too much time on our hands. :)


> Why don't game creators usually finish what they start?

Myst I through V are done, as is Alida (which was ported to Rev for OS X 
and Windows).  I don't really play a lot of other games, but I see a lot 
shipping so someone's finishing them.

> Why don't more people use Revolution to develop modern style games?

Most modern games use specialized engines that take years to develop and 
cost several million dollars.

But there are many types of games, and just as Myst showed us something 
technologically simple that turned the industry upside down, there are 
several dozen categories of games that have yet to be invented....


> Why can't most artists learn to code?  Why don't most artists even want 
> to try to learn to code?
> 
> I'm an artist and an animator who wants to make his art "do something", 
> but I loathe programming, what can I do, anyway?  Can Revolution help me?

I think it can, but like anything else success will be proportionate to 
effort.

I've always wanted to play piano, but I've never had any interest in 
learning to play piano.  As a result I'm a programmer, and the only 
thing I can to with a piano is wear a black turtleneck and plunk around 
and try to convince people it's experimental music. ;)

> How come I can't think like a machine?

Because a machine is too stupid to count past 1. :)

Fortunately high-level languages like Transcript hide most of the 
machine's stupidity from us so we can focus on human logic.

There are several game engines out there -- have you seen the one from 
Ambrosia?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Sun Nov 20 20:51:49 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:51:49 +1000
Subject: revCommon library not part of app
Message-ID: <f99b52860511201751n5644060ei9f73d1a2ae8624a4@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

I have a weird problem at the moment. I have an app that works
perfectly in the IDE, but fails when built. After many tests, I found
that the scripts just stopped running when they encountered either
revChangeWindowSize or revMacFromUnixPath. Both these commands are
part of the revCommon library, but it seems that the library is not
being compiled into my app.

Does anyone know how I can check the existance of this library in my
app? The docs mention a hidden group, so I guess I could add a test
button that listed all the groups.

Does anyone know what I could be doing that is stopping the library
coming in, or have any suggestions about what to try next? The
standalone settings don't allow you to select the common library
specifically, so I guess it is supposed to be in every app.

BTW, this app has been under construction for some time now and this
has never been a problem until now, although these commands have been
used all along. I have tried a fresh insallation of Rev just in case I
had messed up the library somehow, but that had no effect.

TIA,
Sarah


From rgriffit at ctc.net  Sun Nov 20 20:54:36 2005
From: rgriffit at ctc.net (Tracey Griffith)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 20:54:36 -0500
Subject: lock screen doesn't!
In-Reply-To: <BFA61A77.301E7%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <BFA6930C.2EE%rgriffit@ctc.net>




On 11/20/05 1:20 PM, "Ken Ray" <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:

> On 11/20/05 8:26 AM, "Raymond E. Griffith" <rgriffit at ctc.net> wrote:
> 
>> I wonder if adding the following might achieve what you are looking for:
>> 
>>  on mouseUp
>>    open invisible stack "OtherStack" to false
> 
> Actually you don't need the "to false" part of this (I'm sure it was a
> copy/paste error)... but Raymond's right that this would be a good way to
> get the data you need... here's how it works:

Yup. Something like that. You know how programming is. You go in one
direction, then you realize you know something else, so you start to change
what you had done and bam! You wind up going in two directions at once.

I *was* setting the visible of the stack to false before opening it. Then I
realized I could open invisible.

That's what I like about Rev. Lots and lots of ways to do things, and many
of them as right as anything else.

> 
> If you execute 'open invisible stack "OtherStack"', Rev will open the stack
> and make it the stack that has the focus, so you can then use phrases like
> "this stack" to refer to it.
> 
> So I think if you change your "go" to "go invisible" (or "go inv") you can
> accomplish what you're looking for, and take out the lock screens, so it
> looks like this:
> 
> on mouseUp
> ? ?? push cd
> ? ?? go inv stack "OtherStack"
>     -- do what you want to do with "OtherStack"
> ? ?? pop cd
> end mouseUp
> 
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> 

Regards,

Raymond E. Griffith




From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Sun Nov 20 21:18:28 2005
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 21:18:28 -0500
Subject: revCommon library not part of app
Message-ID: <OFDC25F75C.30906D10-ON852570C0.000BE975@sealedair.com>

> Hi All,
> 
> I have a weird problem at the moment. I have an app that works
> perfectly in the IDE, but fails when built. After many tests, I found
> that the scripts just stopped running when they encountered either
> revChangeWindowSize or revMacFromUnixPath. Both these commands are
> part of the revCommon library, but it seems that the library is not
> being compiled into my app.
> 
> Does anyone know how I can check the existance of this library in my
> app? The docs mention a hidden group, so I guess I could add a test
> button that listed all the groups.
> 
> Does anyone know what I could be doing that is stopping the library
> coming in, or have any suggestions about what to try next? The
> standalone settings don't allow you to select the common library
> specifically, so I guess it is supposed to be in every app.
> 
> BTW, this app has been under construction for some time now and this
> has never been a problem until now, although these commands have been
> used all along. I have tried a fresh insallation of Rev just in case I
> had messed up the library somehow, but that had no effect.
> 
> TIA,
> Sarah

Hi Sarah,

I recently had a similar problem in 2.6.1 where setting the 
systemFileSelector to false "used to" include a unix-style file selector 
dialog in the build. I ended up having to build my standalone with 2.5.1 
in order for this to work. I think these are bugs in 2.6.1 where critical 
"used" libraries/stacks are somehow being ommitted during the build 
process. I liked the older versions where you could select each component 
that you wanted to include into the build.

Best regards,
Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Mon Nov 21 00:25:55 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 00:25:55 -0500
Subject: You Either Think Graphically or You Don't
In-Reply-To: <4380FF0F.5050706@harbourhost.co.uk>
References: <4380CF8F.2050206@earthlink.net>
	<4380FF0F.5050706@harbourhost.co.uk>
Message-ID: <C1BE768C-1371-4141-8B4C-8AEC0A4DC6D4@adelphia.net>

Greg,

I am an artist. I am a creative person and I feel comfortable around  
computers. This does not make me a 'programmer'. I started out with  
scripting languages because the tools I was using would not do what I  
wanted to do and so I started learning how to make my own. I actually  
hate coding. I hate having to get syntax right. I hate having to  
remember the 'rules' of syntax. But I love solving problems and I  
love the rewards in building something myself. I love using the code  
and designing a usable interface "That acts like it is supposed to  
act". I hate when engineers with no common sense throw something into  
a software in an illogical way. I like logical attractive and usable  
interfaces with code that does what is should.

Scripting languages look more like english and as such are so much  
easier to read through.

I don't do programming, I do interface design that happens to include  
some code. I hire programmers to write C, C#, C++ code when I am done  
quickly creating a usable interface. This I like to call Rapid  
Prototyping and Rev is great for that. I can get a functional visual  
idea out to the people that then optimize it for public release.

Does this sound like you?
If so Rev is for you. Start out slow and read through every available  
script you can find to see how things are done by others. I am a  
visual person and learn better by doing rather than by studying. So  
download some stacks and start tearing them apart. Try and break  
them. Try and make them do something different than what they do now.  
I find this to be the best way to learn.

Good luck

Tom McGrath
Lazy River Software?

On Nov 20, 2005, at 5:56 PM, Martin Baxter wrote:

>
>> Why can't most artists learn to code?  Why don't most artists even  
>> want to try to learn to code?
>> I'm an artist and an animator who wants to make his art "do  
>> something", but I loathe programming, what can I do, anyway?  Can  
>> Revolution help me?
>



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Mon Nov 21 00:32:12 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 00:32:12 -0500
Subject: You Either Think Graphically or You Don't
In-Reply-To: <43811810.2090000@fourthworld.com>
References: <4380CF8F.2050206@earthlink.net> <43811810.2090000@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <3D9403EF-EF0D-465D-BF4E-971A0417ECFC@adelphia.net>

Yeah but I hate working in the Garage. It's too damn cold. Maybe if I  
lived in a warmer climate I wouldn't mind.
It is a shame to realize I won't be changing the world because my  
garage is too cold, Damn.

Tom

P.S. It does have WiFi though. (So when I am working on a metal  
sculpture in the warmer months I can use my laptop to see my sketches  
down there)

On Nov 20, 2005, at 7:42 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Two guys in a garage founded Hewlett Packard, revolutionizing the  
> tech industry.
>
> Two guys in an apartment used HP parts to found Apple Computer,  
> revolutionizing the computer industry.
>
> Two guys in a house a few hundred miles north used Apple computers  
> to make Myst, revolutionizing the game industry.
>
> The next revolution is waiting to be discovered, perhaps by two  
> readers of this list in a garage somewhere.



From john at debraneys.com  Mon Nov 21 01:48:30 2005
From: john at debraneys.com (John Tregea)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:48:30 +1100
Subject: You Either Think Graphically or You Don't
In-Reply-To: <4380CF8F.2050206@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200511210648.jAL6mVWP007922@mail21.syd.optusnet.com.au>

Hi Greg,


> I really don't want to stir up a debate, but I feel lost in today's 
> world of application creation.

You and many millions or others I suspect

> What kind of application do you want to make?

Having something worthwhile to achieve is a driving force in all the good
applications I have ever written. If I couldn't feel the worth, I couldn't
"code" as you call it. 

> What kind of appication like you want to make is already out there by 
> the dozens?

I don't think there are dozens of GOOD applications Greg, but there are
thousands of average ones. The good ones gather a following of passionate
people and can live on for years past the originator steps away from his or
her creation (e.g. Revolution, metacard, supercard, hypercard) {and the
heritage from people like Bill Atkinson at Apple that was the lead on the
original HyperCard project at Apple and his work was in response to
visionaries from the forties and fifties that conceived of hypertext linking
etc.})

> Why make a duplicate of an application that exists and already does most 
> of what you want?

So many people use so little of the features in even one application, if you
can select out the USEFUL bits and give a craftsman the tools to do a job in
their field without wasting time (and money on useless [to them] features)
that can be good for both you and the craftsperson.

> Why spend months/years learning to develop something that you could buy 
> for relatively little money from someone else?

Why have a portrait painted when you can have a polaroid taken? For the love
of the medium, the subject, the time it takes, the care involved, the way it
reflects the light from the open fireplace (for those of us in cold
garages):) 

> Is your idea really that much better than one that has already been put 
> into code?

It is the strength of execution of your idea in the medium that creates the
value surely. Our Managing Director is a creative writer and she expects the
medium to have its own strengths and weaknesses. Your (or my) ability to
know and work with the strengths and weaknesses of this medium (or any
other) is what makes our work a genuine communication of the essence of the
actual idea that started us on the journey (or not). 


> Why "code" at all?

Coding isn't a "better" way of communicating knowledge; it is a "different"
way. It is different from television or cinema or radio or theatre or novels
or directories or reference books. It is more suited to some activities and
less to others.

BUT

You don't ask a cinematographer to make a movie, you ask them to use the
tools which are their craft to be a part of a team, to follow (hopefully)
good direction, to help visualise their dimension of what is ALWAYS a
multi-dimensional communication task.

> Has the wheel really been invented over and over again?

There are "Genre's" of software just as there are genre's of movies or
novels etc. A good piece of work within a genre can raise the "minimum
expectations" of the users of a particular genre and therefore raise the bar
for everyone else coding in that area.


> Why is it so hard to make an application without re-inventing something 
> that has already been made thousands of times?

If you know how and why things have been done before you won't re-invent,
you will make use of... I think there is a quote about "Standing on the
shoulders of giants" to see a new horizon. Well this industry is not full of
giants, but we have had them, the same as each other new "technology".
People that saw further and moved the horizon back for everyone else. 

> With all of this talk about object oriented, reusable code, why does it 
> still take so long to produce anything really useful or unique?

How long did it take you to master whatever medium you use for your art now?


Oh, my... I better stop.




From benbock at msn.com  Mon Nov 21 02:32:38 2005
From: benbock at msn.com (Ben Bock)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 23:32:38 -0800
Subject: Help for total newbie making a dissertation application
Message-ID: <BAY106-DAV165C9844A5BB1E7F91A6F5A9530@phx.gbl>

Hello, complete newbie here.  I purchased Revolution Studio for creating an application to use in my doctoral dissertation.  This is a research project, not a commercial project.  I have a limited time to make things work.  Trying to figure things out on my own, and making slow progress.  I have no programming experience.

Here are the simplified objectives for a standalone application to be individually administered to research participants.

1. I have a series of .mpg files ~ 60 sec in duration that I want my participants to view, with no input from them needed.
2.  The participants will complete a series of different questionnaires that I will need to present in Revolution, and input their "yes-no" answers on the screen using a mouse.
3.  I want their answers to be stored for each individual so that I can place the answers in a statistical spreadsheet.  If I can get the answers to Excel, that will be all I need to get them where I need them, but the destination is a Windows stats package, SPSS.  I know what a database is, but have never worked with one.

I think my needs are simple, but there is a foundation needed that I simply don't yet have.  I am looking for similar applications that I might borrow from to make this project work, but I will cheerfully accept any suggestions or advice, to help me distinguish my ass from a teakettle in this new landscape.  I am still working thru the video tutorials that came with my Studio disk.

My email is benbock at msn.com<mailto:benbock at msn.com> 

Thank you for any help in this,

Ben

From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Mon Nov 21 07:20:27 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:20:27 +0100
Subject: strange issue
In-Reply-To: <20051021040851.A222F824D46@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <OFF267C262.754219B3-ONC12570A1.00202DBC-C12570C0.0043CAE5@deutsche-boerse.com>

After some testing, it seems this engine specific and not a revGUI  issue.
I thought it could have been the revmessage box but it also happens in 
MetaCard's msg box.

So MC engine version 2.6.6 has a problem! Any confirmations to enter a 
concrete bugzilla 
is welcome...

Second bugzilla today!!!



use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 21/10/2005 06:40:44:

> I have this custom prop
> 
> put the xos["dragstack"] of this stack 
> 
> It tell TAOO whether a stack can be dragged on a mousedown event...
> 
> very handy...
> 
> but if I start checking this on one stack EditNO2 in the message box
> if get all the error messages in the answer!
> 
> put the xos["dragstack"] of stack "editno2"
> 
> Handler: Running low on memory, script aborted
> recursionLimit: Recursion limit reached
> abs: error in source expression
> accept: bad expression
> etc...
> 
> if I put the script in a button it works - although the 
> mousedown handler doesn?t!!!
> 
> If I debug the mousedown handler rev freezes...
> If I debug the handler and do the put xos["dragstack"] 
> show into the message, the xos["dragstack"] is empty!!!
> 
> im pretty sure that im selecting the right stack's cusom props.
> Im sure the prop is there and it contains "true"...
> 
> can anyone explain this? 
> This works fine in rr 2.5 but no more in 2.6.1...
> 
> cheers
> Xavier
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
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From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Mon Nov 21 07:21:56 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:21:56 +0100
Subject: problem waiting - spellchecker
In-Reply-To: <20050902034848.3071F824E9D@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <OF56AA078E.E3F8BAC5-ONC1257070.00291DF0-C12570C0.0043ED9E@deutsche-boerse.com>

DUH!

Appologies to Dave Cragg who suggested that... Sorry Dar, no cigar ;)

i should learn to "read" sometimes ;)

Thanks again Dave

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 02/09/2005 06:08:14:

> Woah cool the DarFunction!
> 
> Some Interactivity seems to be showing handy thanks to the DarFunction 
in
> this waiting-room case though!
> 
> More than i saw before... the seconds ticked but...
> 
> But even though i tried it still worked once and then
> no more... It just hanged. The "message" wouldn't budge.
> Same keyword... The hilite also i noticed was only working
> once hilited and then no more (nu behavior since new word parser
> but same result - i said before that it took 3 or 4 clicks 
> before it locked.)
> 
> So it's, as i was afraid, a scripter's error! Arghh
> 
> I started commenting out all the scripts in the button that's supposed 
to be
> hit that was unneeded. And i left the essentials. 
> 
> Suddenly i get an error!
> I was adding 1 to a wrong array item... 
> A code line from mambo #2 - the xtalk word parser!
> 
> RevError suddenly spewed in total geometric disarray (seen this before 
for
> the same reasons somewhere too?)
> 
> Type add: destination has a bad format (numeric?)
> Object Learn
> Line add 1 to xosdictionary["currentword"]
> Hint button id 1030 of group id 1080 of card id 1002 of stack
> "F:/TAOO/Palettes/SpellNO2.rev"
> 
> Why wasn't that error showing up before??? I sure am glad i didn't enter 
a
> bugzilla for the wait problem! It's the debugger not following the path
> deeper into the problem... Something Bugzillaed months ago ...
> 
> Xcellent deduction thanks to DAR! My man! You saved me a rewrite ;) The 
next
> rev made dictionary is gonna rock with your name in the credits and the
> honorous free license emeritus circle in TAOO! 
> 
> SpellNO2 learned a whole paragraph in one pass thanks to you!!! Cool! 
Now, i
> got to start watching for badly spelled words and how it suggests "the 
real
> stuff"... And work out Xceptions... 
> 
> Thanks again Dar!!!!
> 
> revcheers
> Xav
> http://monsieurx.com 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dave Cragg [mailto:dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk] 
> > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 19:28
> > To: x at monsieurx.com; How to use Revolution
> > Subject: Re: problem waiting - spellchecker
> > 
> > On 1 Sep 2005, at 17:20, MisterX wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > repeat...
> > >   ...
> > >   put "wait" into xosdictionary["current"]
> > >   --put the waitdepth -- always 1
> > >   --if the waitdepth < 2 then
> > >     wait until xosdictionary["current"] = "continue" with messages
> > >   -- else skip... poor idea...
> > >   --end if
> > >   ...
> > > end repeat
> > > then, any button in the spellchecker GUI will do something like 
> > > ignore, fix, etc... and then
> > >   ...
> > >   put "continue" into xosdictionary["current"] end mouseup
> > >
> > > The reason the wait is in the first place is to wait for the user 
> > > input (or abort). Since it's blocked, the only way this could work 
> > > (it's in a loop that parses each word) would be if i added a double 
> > > condition with a property reset and that gets messy...
> > >
> > > This requires major code change (not again, 2 already)...
> > >
> > > Why can't this wait statement work each time it is called?
> > > If it works 2 or 3 times why not 4 or more?
> > >
> > > What can affect this?
> > >
> > > Im removing now all outside influences for the next test run...
> > >
> > > The question remains, why does it lock up?
> > 
> > What do you mean by lock up?
> > 
> > If you mean it's hanging at the "wait" statement, then the 
> > first thought would be that the condition isn't being met. 
> > One way to explore this would be to use a function as the 
> > condition, and spit out some loggable data from within the 
> > function. Perhaps something like this:
> > 
> > repeat...
> >    ...
> >    put "wait" into xosdictionary["current"]
> >    --put the waitdepth -- always 1
> >    --if the waitdepth < 2 then
> >      wait until myCondition() = "continue"  with messages
> >    -- else skip... poor idea...
> >    --end if
> >    ...
> > end repeat
> > 
> > function myCondition
> >    put xosdictionary["current"] into tRetVal
> >    put the milliseconds && ":" && tRetVal into field "log"
> >    return tRetVal
> > end myCondition
> > 
> > In this way, you can see whether the condition is being 
> > continually checked or not, and monitor the value that should 
> > be changing. At least it should give you an idea of where 
> > things are going wrong.
> > 
> > Cheers
> > Dave
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



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From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Nov 21 08:13:25 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:13:25 -0500
Subject: Identifying objects by their tooltips
Message-ID: <web-339436966@mail.maclaunch.com>

So I am working on some EFL programs for very young
children and ended up with a lots of drag and drop images -
now I could spend lines and lines of code of the sort:

if the name of it is "COW.gif" then do TIDDLEY POM

identifying each image individually - tedious, memory
hungry and inefficient.

Now I may have reinvented the wheel - notwithstanding this
might be a happy trick to share with the 'basic educational
stack' crowd to which I proudly belong:

if you have a class of objects to be dragged and dropped
(or somesuch) set the tooltip of all of them to some
'invisible' text such as 3 spaces and then use the
following:

if the tooltip of it is "   " then do WHAT YOU FANCY

Now, my next problem is to turn off tooltips so that they
don't produce blocks of colour under my cursor!

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From jbv.silences at club-internet.fr  Mon Nov 21 08:35:56 2005
From: jbv.silences at club-internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:35:56 +0100
Subject: Identifying objects by their tooltips
References: <web-339436966@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <4381CD32.F771230F@club-internet.fr>

why don't you use custom properties instead ?

JB


> So I am working on some EFL programs for very young
> children and ended up with a lots of drag and drop images -
> now I could spend lines and lines of code of the sort:
>
> if the name of it is "COW.gif" then do TIDDLEY POM
>
> identifying each image individually - tedious, memory
> hungry and inefficient.
>
> Now I may have reinvented the wheel - notwithstanding this
> might be a happy trick to share with the 'basic educational
> stack' crowd to which I proudly belong:
>
> if you have a class of objects to be dragged and dropped
> (or somesuch) set the tooltip of all of them to some
> 'invisible' text such as 3 spaces and then use the
> following:
>
> if the tooltip of it is "   " then do WHAT YOU FANCY
>
> Now, my next problem is to turn off tooltips so that they
> don't produce blocks of colour under my cursor!



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Mon Nov 21 08:25:02 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:25:02 +0100
Subject: Identifying objects by their tooltips
In-Reply-To: <web-339436966@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <OF232177B9.B74D04E4-ONC12570C0.00498ED8-C12570C0.0049B48D@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Richmond

you can turn off tooltips by setting the tooltipdelay global variable...

but im not sure what is the question for the rest...

You seem to have drag and drop mastered... or?

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 21/11/2005 14:13:25:

> So I am working on some EFL programs for very young
> children and ended up with a lots of drag and drop images -
> now I could spend lines and lines of code of the sort:
> 
> if the name of it is "COW.gif" then do TIDDLEY POM
> 
> identifying each image individually - tedious, memory
> hungry and inefficient.
> 
> Now I may have reinvented the wheel - notwithstanding this
> might be a happy trick to share with the 'basic educational
> stack' crowd to which I proudly belong:
> 
> if you have a class of objects to be dragged and dropped
> (or somesuch) set the tooltip of all of them to some
> 'invisible' text such as 3 spaces and then use the
> following:
> 
> if the tooltip of it is "   " then do WHAT YOU FANCY
> 
> Now, my next problem is to turn off tooltips so that they
> don't produce blocks of colour under my cursor!
> 
> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson
> __________________________________________________
> See Mathewson's software at:
> 
> http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
> _______________________________________
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> The Think Different Store
> http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
> For All Your Mac Gear
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
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Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
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its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Nov 21 08:27:57 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:27:57 +0000
Subject: Identifying objects by their tooltips
In-Reply-To: <web-339436966@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339436966@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <4381CB5D.4080600@tweedly.net>

Mathewson wrote:

>So I am working on some EFL programs for very young
>children and ended up with a lots of drag and drop images -
>now I could spend lines and lines of code of the sort:
>
>if the name of it is "COW.gif" then do TIDDLEY POM
>
>identifying each image individually - tedious, memory
>hungry and inefficient.
>
>Now I may have reinvented the wheel - notwithstanding this
>might be a happy trick to share with the 'basic educational
>stack' crowd to which I proudly belong:
>
>if you have a class of objects to be dragged and dropped
>(or somesuch) set the tooltip of all of them to some
>'invisible' text such as 3 spaces and then use the
>following:
>
>if the tooltip of it is "   " then do WHAT YOU FANCY
>
>  
>
I may be missing something ...
what is the advantage of using tooltips over simply setting a custom 
property ?

if the cWhatDoYouFancy of it is true then do WHAT YOU FANCY

This leaves the tooltips available (should you want) for their normal 
use, and each image can have multiple of these as needed

 if the cDragAndDroppable of it is true then do DRAG IT
 if the cMultiColoured of it is true then do ConvertToGreyScale
 ...

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/176 - Release Date: 20/11/2005



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Nov 21 08:55:45 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:55:45 -0500
Subject: Identifying objects by their tooltips
Message-ID: <web-339438186@mail.maclaunch.com>

Wow - Xavier - that tip about how to turn off tooltips is
extremely useful - Thanks a lot.

I have no problem with Drag and Drop nor with drop-targets
- and when I pull myself together and sort out my website I
shall pop an example up there.

I just thought I would share the idea about the tooltips.

My programs feature jolly little instructions such as "Put
all the animals in the blue box"

where the 'blue box' is a drop target and the end-user is
faced with 20 images of assorted animals and bird that,
obviously, cannot all share the same name - so have to be
classified by tooltip.

Richmond

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Nov 21 08:59:52 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:59:52 -0500
Subject: Identifying objects by their tooltips - custom props
Message-ID: <web-339438296@mail.maclaunch.com>

Well, there are 3 possible answers to why I don't use
custom props:

1. I have never bothered to learn how to use Custom props.

2. Tooltips seems rather straightforward.

3. I specialise in beeing bloody-minded.

Needless to say, in my case, all 3 are partly true!

sincerely, Richmond
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Nov 21 09:01:53 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:01:53 -0500
Subject: A Very Large 'Thank You' to Runtime Revolution
Message-ID: <web-339438348@mail.maclaunch.com>

THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED for allowing me to contribute to
your use-lists again.

Sincerely, Richmond Mathewson
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From jbv.silences at club-internet.fr  Mon Nov 21 09:20:43 2005
From: jbv.silences at club-internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:20:43 +0100
Subject: Identifying objects by their tooltips - custom props
References: <web-339438296@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <4381D7AF.434CB163@club-internet.fr>



>
> 1. I have never bothered to learn how to use Custom props.

custom props are worth bothering to learn...

>
>
> 2. Tooltips seems rather straightforward.

custom props are quite straightforward too.

JB



From jbv.silences at club-internet.fr  Mon Nov 21 09:20:43 2005
From: jbv.silences at club-internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:20:43 +0100
Subject: Identifying objects by their tooltips - custom props
References: <web-339438296@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <4381D7AF.434CB163@club-internet.fr>



>
> 1. I have never bothered to learn how to use Custom props.

custom props are worth bothering to learn...

>
>
> 2. Tooltips seems rather straightforward.

custom props are quite straightforward too.

JB



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Mon Nov 21 09:17:54 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:17:54 -0500
Subject: Help for total newbie making a dissertation application
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-DAV165C9844A5BB1E7F91A6F5A9530@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY106-DAV165C9844A5BB1E7F91A6F5A9530@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <FCA985E5-6E02-44C2-A78D-0EBFD6043D79@adelphia.net>

Ben, Welcome to your Revolution!!!

> Here are the simplified objectives for a standalone application to  
> be individually administered to research participants.
Mac and Windows and Linux???

> 1. I have a series of .mpg files ~ 60 sec in duration that I want  
> my participants to view, with no input from them needed.
See 'Movie', 'Play', and 'Play Stopped'

> 2.  The participants will complete a series of different  
> questionnaires that I will need to present in Revolution, and input  
> their "yes-no" answers on the screen using a mouse.
See 'Radio' and create a group of Radio buttons and a text box and  
set the radioBehavior of group to true - Only one can be selected.  
Yes or No
Use this group for each question. Have the group have a unique name  
to use in the next step.


> 3.  I want their answers to be stored for each individual so that I  
> can place the answers in a statistical spreadsheet.  If I can get  
> the answers to Excel, that will be all I need to get them where I  
> need them, but the destination is a Windows stats package, SPSS.  I  
> know what a database is, but have never worked with one.
You should have a sign in page at the beginning that is set to store  
the user profile and then apply the answers from the question section  
and compare against the 'right' answers if needed. If you build the  
list you can certainly export that to open in another app. (Other  
people can help with the DB stuff)

>
> I think my needs are simple, but there is a foundation needed that  
> I simply don't yet have.  I am looking for similar applications  
> that I might borrow from to make this project work, but I will  
> cheerfully accept any suggestions or advice, to help me distinguish  
> my ass from a teakettle in this new landscape.  I am still working  
> thru the video tutorials that came with my Studio disk.
Go to the "User Spaces" section in the revOnline Viewer and look  
through the stacks and download and explore. Take what you need. I do  
all the time. Just to learn or see a better way to do something.

Good luck,

Tom

>
> My email is benbock at msn.com<mailto:benbock at msn.com>
>
> Thank you for any help in this,
>
> Ben
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Mon Nov 21 09:21:09 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:21:09 -0500
Subject: Identifying objects by their tooltips - custom props
In-Reply-To: <web-339438296@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339438296@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <F9B9B576-275D-4A07-ABC3-C90CC4EFD57A@adelphia.net>

Sounds like me!!!

Tom

On Nov 21, 2005, at 8:59 AM, Mathewson wrote:

> Well, there are 3 possible answers to why I don't use
> custom props:
>
> 1. I have never bothered to learn how to use Custom props.
>
> 2. Tooltips seems rather straightforward.
>
> 3. I specialise in beeing bloody-minded.
>
> Needless to say, in my case, all 3 are partly true!
>
> sincerely, Richmond
> __________________________________________________
> See Mathewson's software at:
>
> http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
> _______________________________________
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> The Think Different Store
> http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
> For All Your Mac Gear
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From david at openpartnership.net  Mon Nov 21 09:21:03 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:21:03 +0100
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <437E36F6.7070507@fourthworld.com>
References: <web-339309330@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<437E36F6.7070507@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <D81DFE65-D3EE-4C9C-A598-B57376E3E00D@openpartnership.net>

Linux support is not about how many desktops you can sell  
applications to - it is about the quality of developers you can  
attract, and the ability to deliver intranet, and government  
contracts (at least here in Europe) which specify support for open  
platforms. It is also about being able to leverage the huge amount of  
"free" code that is available on this platform and integrate it into  
the project.

Maybe only 1-2% of your typical desktop customers will be using linux  
- but I personally would not be using Revolution without good Linux  
support for the reasons above.


On 18 Nov 2005, at 21:17, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I don't know RunRev's position, but for myself I see Linux as a  
> challenging beast with two heads:  one head speaks loudly and  
> generates a lot of buzz value, but the other head tells me its  
> desktop users are relatively few and only a small percentage of  
> those like paying for the software they use.
>
> On my side, supporting Linux is a checkbox and an installer and I  
> still don't bother.
>
> On RunRev's side the committment is much more extensive, and it  
> remains to be seen how directly profitable it is.


From david at openpartnership.net  Mon Nov 21 09:23:28 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:23:28 +0100
Subject: SHA-1 algorithm in xTalk?
In-Reply-To: <437E8980.7030108@comcast.net>
References: <5a823a596467f78430956469f6abb70d@backtalk.com>
	<437E8980.7030108@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <56080D7B-E46E-490E-B3AF-874692EA879B@openpartnership.net>

No but I need it badly for digital signatures!  Don't think anyone  
knows about this though :(


On 19 Nov 2005, at 03:10, Phil Davis wrote:

> I don't know much about hashes - is SHA-1 enough better than Rev's  
> md5digest to warrant paying someone to do it? Or will md5digest do  
> what you need?
>
> Phil Davis
>
>
> Frank Leahy wrote:
>
>> Has anyone ported the SHA-1 algorithm to xTalk? (see http:// 
>> www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/SHA-1.html for details)
>> If not, would anyone be willing to port it for $$?
>> Regards,
>> -- Frank


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Mon Nov 21 09:23:21 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:23:21 +0100
Subject: Identifying objects by their tooltips
In-Reply-To: <web-339438186@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <OFD2F1D4A1.1A839E2E-ONC12570C0.004E9CC9-C12570C0.004F0B43@deutsche-boerse.com>

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 21/11/2005 14:55:45:

> Wow - Xavier - that tip about how to turn off tooltips is
> extremely useful - Thanks a lot.

No big deal, it's in the docs ;) Search tooltip... Look at the
related items ;) Learn 1 feature, discover 3 - 10 more - try not
to recurse ;)

> I have no problem with Drag and Drop nor with drop-targets
> - and when I pull myself together and sort out my website I
> shall pop an example up there.
> 
> I just thought I would share the idea about the tooltips.
> 
> My programs feature jolly little instructions such as "Put
> all the animals in the blue box"
> 
> where the 'blue box' is a drop target and the end-user is
> faced with 20 images of assorted animals and bird that,
> obviously, cannot all share the same name - so have to be
> classified by tooltip.

Sounds like a fun game :) Do the animals go Oink? 

Im on the same side as those who mentioned the custom props.
It's not as hard as you think and they are much more granular.

For example, you can store tooltips in different languages, the
sound link for the animal, animated gifs when you drag and drop
the image, etc...

put the long id of this image into thisimage
put the shortname of thisimage into thisanimal

put the animal["tooltip","english"] of thisimage into thistooltip

or

put the animalinfo[thisanimal, "sound"] of this card into thisanimalsound

set the tooltip of this image to thistooltip
etc...

cheers
Xavier


-----------------------------------------
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From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Mon Nov 21 09:25:39 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:25:39 -0500
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <D81DFE65-D3EE-4C9C-A598-B57376E3E00D@openpartnership.net>
References: <web-339309330@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<437E36F6.7070507@fourthworld.com>
	<D81DFE65-D3EE-4C9C-A598-B57376E3E00D@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <DD0ACC73-9F1D-4405-A0BC-94BF2D21DED2@conncoll.edu>


On Nov 21, 2005, at 9:21 AM, David Bovill wrote:

> Linux support is not about how many desktops you can sell  
> applications to - it is about the quality of developers you can  
> attract, and the ability to deliver intranet, and government  
> contracts (at least here in Europe) which specify support for open  
> platforms. It is also about being able to leverage the huge amount  
> of "free" code that is available on this platform and integrate it  
> into the project.
>
> Maybe only 1-2% of your typical desktop customers will be using  
> linux - but I personally would not be using Revolution without good  
> Linux support for the reasons above.
>

And the Brazilian government's policy is worth keeping in mind, and  
watching as a plausible trend.

Charles Hartman


>
> On 18 Nov 2005, at 21:17, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> I don't know RunRev's position, but for myself I see Linux as a  
>> challenging beast with two heads:  one head speaks loudly and  
>> generates a lot of buzz value, but the other head tells me its  
>> desktop users are relatively few and only a small percentage of  
>> those like paying for the software they use.
>>
>> On my side, supporting Linux is a checkbox and an installer and I  
>> still don't bother.
>>
>> On RunRev's side the committment is much more extensive, and it  
>> remains to be seen how directly profitable it is.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From david at openpartnership.net  Mon Nov 21 10:23:26 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:23:26 +0100
Subject: ANN: TreeView in Revolution!!
In-Reply-To: <43809DA1.6060405@tweedly.net>
References: <8B7D8883-2D2E-4246-9DD5-5829E13602A1@recursive.ca>
	<43809DA1.6060405@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <A3BAE9F4-3A42-47BF-AD30-4EB5DE4F2BAC@openpartnership.net>

There are 3 or four sketches around but none which i have found that  
are what I would call finished objects - or truely general purpose. I  
guess there are many people on the list who have rolled their own  
custom solutions as it is relatively easy to do that in Rev.

I am working on a "tree view" object (outliner) intensely today - bit  
of a perfectionist so don't hold your breath - will release with the  
address book beta. At the moment I am finishing integrating this with  
a Model View Controller architecture I have been experimenting with -  
that way you can treat the outline as a "view" and connect it to any  
display or database process you want to.

If you have an urgent need - then feel free to pester me...


David


On 20 Nov 2005, at 17:00, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Bob Hutchison wrote:
>> I'm new to Revolution (like today new) and I have to admit that I  
>> was  a bit surprised that there is no tree view in Revolution.  
>> Lack of a  tree isn't going to kill me, but it would be nice. I'm  
>> also a little  surprised that nobody has commented on this post...  
>> what am I missing?
>>
>> At any rate, the URL below doesn't seem to work for me. Is there  
>> an  alternative URL?
>>
>>
> I have a vague feeling there was a follow-up with another URL - but  
> can't track it down.
>
> There are a couple of other treeview controls .... I haven't used  
> any of them, so can't recommend any one over the others.
>
>
>>> / Does anyone know where I can get a stack or external that  
>>> implements a
>>>
>> />/ treeview control? I've seen references on the various runrev  / 
>> >/ resources sites
>> />/ but cannot seem to pinpoint an example.
>> />/
>> /<http://revolution.lexicall.org/stacks_education.php>
>> Scroll to the bottom of the page to find Marielle Lange's Tree View
>>
>> OR
>>
>> <http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Downloads.htm>
>> where you can find the Altuit XML TreeView List Control.


From dleyanna at rtl.org  Mon Nov 21 10:49:46 2005
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:49:46 -0500
Subject: ANN: ArchiveSearch 1.71
In-Reply-To: <10735501167.20051119180259@ahsoftware.net>
References: <10735501167.20051119180259@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <4381EC9A.3040708@rtl.org>

Thanks mark!

I noticed some other things you have made available to the community 
when I visited your site. Thank you very much.

Dave

Mark Wieder wrote:

>All-
>
>I took Xavier's suggestion seriously, and my Archive Search plugin now
>allows the stripping of the last signature if it's properly formed,
>that being "-- " (dash dash space) on a line by itself. In my
>RevOnline user space (mwieder) or at
>http://www.ahsoftware.net/ArchiveSearch.html
>
>  
>


-- 
Dave LeYanna
Director IS
Right to Life of Michigan
www.rtl.org



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Nov 21 10:56:18 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 07:56:18 -0800
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <DD0ACC73-9F1D-4405-A0BC-94BF2D21DED2@conncoll.edu>
References: <web-339309330@mail.maclaunch.com>	<437E36F6.7070507@fourthworld.com>	<D81DFE65-D3EE-4C9C-A598-B57376E3E00D@openpartnership.net>
	<DD0ACC73-9F1D-4405-A0BC-94BF2D21DED2@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <4381EE22.1060605@fourthworld.com>

Charles Hartman wrote:
>> Maybe only 1-2% of your typical desktop customers will be using  linux 
>> - but I personally would not be using Revolution without good  Linux 
>> support for the reasons above.
>>
> 
> And the Brazilian government's policy is worth keeping in mind, and  
> watching as a plausible trend.

What is that policy?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From david at openpartnership.net  Mon Nov 21 11:13:32 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:13:32 +0100
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <4381EE22.1060605@fourthworld.com>
References: <web-339309330@mail.maclaunch.com>	<437E36F6.7070507@fourthworld.com>	<D81DFE65-D3EE-4C9C-A598-B57376E3E00D@openpartnership.net>
	<DD0ACC73-9F1D-4405-A0BC-94BF2D21DED2@conncoll.edu>
	<4381EE22.1060605@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CEB5C2EA-9EEC-41A6-8CD0-C737C76600B9@openpartnership.net>

On 21 Nov 2005, at 16:56, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Charles Hartman wrote:
>
>>> Maybe only 1-2% of your typical desktop customers will be using   
>>> linux - but I personally would not be using Revolution without  
>>> good  Linux support for the reasons above.
>>>
>>>
>> And the Brazilian government's policy is worth keeping in mind,  
>> and  watching as a plausible trend.
>>
>
> What is that policy?

Basically they insist on open source solutions for Government  
contracts - also very big supporters of open content (Creative  
Commons) with Gliberto Gil (Minister of Culture and renowned  
musician) being largely responsible for getting Creative Commons to  
add the sampling license to their suite of licenses.

I must confess I do not know the details in Brasil - anyone? But here  
in Europe out of the last 4 government contracts for projects two  
virtually insisted on open source and the other two looked on them  
favourably. The forthcoming EU IST5 call I am helping with is no  
exception.


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Nov 21 11:16:38 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:16:38 -0800
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <D81DFE65-D3EE-4C9C-A598-B57376E3E00D@openpartnership.net>
References: <web-339309330@mail.maclaunch.com>	<437E36F6.7070507@fourthworld.com>
	<D81DFE65-D3EE-4C9C-A598-B57376E3E00D@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <4381F2E6.2020701@fourthworld.com>

David Bovill wrote:

 > Linux support is not about how many desktops you can sell
 > applications to - it is about the quality of developers
 > you can  attract

I could write apps for the Pope, but if he won't give me something in 
return it'll be just as hard for me to pay my rent as writing for slobs.

Classism, in any form, doesn't determine viability.

 > and the ability to deliver intranet

I've been shipping internanet and extranet apps for years, for people 
who feel my time is worth giving something back for.

 > and government  contracts (at least here in Europe) which
 > specify support for open  platforms. It is also about being
 > able to leverage the huge amount of  "free" code that is
 > available on this platform and integrate it into  the project.

Depends on the license requirements, doesn't it?  That is, even if I 
inherit enough wealth to be able to afford the luxury of working for 
free, at the end of the day the RunRev engine isn't open source so it's 
not possible for me to deliver truly open materials which rely on it.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Nov 21 11:19:26 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:19:26 -0800
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <CEB5C2EA-9EEC-41A6-8CD0-C737C76600B9@openpartnership.net>
References: <web-339309330@mail.maclaunch.com>	<437E36F6.7070507@fourthworld.com>	<D81DFE65-D3EE-4C9C-A598-B57376E3E00D@openpartnership.net>	<DD0ACC73-9F1D-4405-A0BC-94BF2D21DED2@conncoll.edu>	<4381EE22.1060605@fourthworld.com>
	<CEB5C2EA-9EEC-41A6-8CD0-C737C76600B9@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <4381F38E.6090208@fourthworld.com>

David Bovill wrote:
> On 21 Nov 2005, at 16:56, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> Charles Hartman wrote:
>>>> Maybe only 1-2% of your typical desktop customers will be using   
>>>> linux - but I personally would not be using Revolution without  
>>>> good  Linux support for the reasons above.
>>>
>>> And the Brazilian government's policy is worth keeping in mind,  and  
>>> watching as a plausible trend.
>>
>> What is that policy?
>
> Basically they insist on open source solutions for Government  contracts 
> - also very big supporters of open content (Creative  Commons) with 
> Gliberto Gil (Minister of Culture and renowned  musician) being largely 
> responsible for getting Creative Commons to  add the sampling license to 
> their suite of licenses.

OIC.  Thanks.  Thought it was somehow different from the Indian or 
European policies.  Seems pretty much in line generally speaking, and 
since we use a proprietary engine here they all exclude us.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ale870 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 11:35:44 2005
From: ale870 at gmail.com (Alessandro Manotti)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:35:44 +0100
Subject: SHA-1 algorithm in xTalk?
In-Reply-To: <56080D7B-E46E-490E-B3AF-874692EA879B@openpartnership.net>
References: <5a823a596467f78430956469f6abb70d@backtalk.com>
	<437E8980.7030108@comcast.net>
	<56080D7B-E46E-490E-B3AF-874692EA879B@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <f54296680511210835u5595efe6l48e6dff504944095@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry if I introduce myself in this posts.
Please note that md5 is no more reliable! Since it was officially cracked.

Even Sha-0 was cracked, but it is far incomplete/primitive then sha-1,
which is the only reliable hash system to verify digital signature,
software integrity, etc...

Sorry again...


--Alessandro




On 11/21/05, David Bovill <david at openpartnership.net> wrote:
> No but I need it badly for digital signatures!  Don't think anyone
> knows about this though :(
>
>
> On 19 Nov 2005, at 03:10, Phil Davis wrote:
>
> > I don't know much about hashes - is SHA-1 enough better than Rev's
> > md5digest to warrant paying someone to do it? Or will md5digest do
> > what you need?
> >
> > Phil Davis
> >
> >
> > Frank Leahy wrote:
> >
> >> Has anyone ported the SHA-1 algorithm to xTalk? (see http://
> >> www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/SHA-1.html for details)
> >> If not, would anyone be willing to port it for $$?
> >> Regards,
> >> -- Frank
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From david at openpartnership.net  Mon Nov 21 11:38:44 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:38:44 +0100
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <4381F38E.6090208@fourthworld.com>
References: <web-339309330@mail.maclaunch.com>	<437E36F6.7070507@fourthworld.com>	<D81DFE65-D3EE-4C9C-A598-B57376E3E00D@openpartnership.net>	<DD0ACC73-9F1D-4405-A0BC-94BF2D21DED2@conncoll.edu>	<4381EE22.1060605@fourthworld.com>
	<CEB5C2EA-9EEC-41A6-8CD0-C737C76600B9@openpartnership.net>
	<4381F38E.6090208@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <6EEAB6A1-723A-41BF-B347-055343171EF5@openpartnership.net>

On 21 Nov 2005, at 17:16, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Depends on the license requirements, doesn't it?  That is, even if  
> I inherit enough wealth to be able to afford the luxury of working  
> for free, at the end of the day the RunRev engine isn't open source  
> so it's not possible for me to deliver truly open materials which  
> rely on it.

Hey i thought you had made it in the land of plenty :) More seriously  
this is not all-or-nothing. It is entirely possible to deliver open  
source solutions in Rev (what is the license for the Metacard IDE  
again?).

Also it is possible to have mixed strategies based on open file  
formats - so you can both release all the Rev code under an  
appropriate OSI certified open license and allow full  
interoperability with other open source code.

The issue here is not that it is "not possible" to do this, but that  
in order to win these arguments in these contract negotiations it  
would really help if RunRev had a decent open source strategy that  
they marketed - this should be built upon Revolutions strengths in  
*nix platform as a rapid application development tool.

Saying that this is not possible is not only untrue but damaging (for  
some of us at least).


> On 21 Nov 2005, at 17:19, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> OIC.  Thanks.  Thought it was somehow different from the Indian or  
> European policies.  Seems pretty much in line generally speaking,  
> and since we use a proprietary engine here they all exclude us.

NO IT DOES NOT!




From david at openpartnership.net  Mon Nov 21 11:40:28 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:40:28 +0100
Subject: SHA-1 algorithm in xTalk?
In-Reply-To: <f54296680511210835u5595efe6l48e6dff504944095@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5a823a596467f78430956469f6abb70d@backtalk.com>
	<437E8980.7030108@comcast.net>
	<56080D7B-E46E-490E-B3AF-874692EA879B@openpartnership.net>
	<f54296680511210835u5595efe6l48e6dff504944095@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <693F3EE0-F513-4604-8705-3A237D8A16DD@openpartnership.net>

The SSL libraries that RunRev uses should be able to do this - and I  
would have thought considerably faster than a native and possibly  
less secure Transcript implementation - no?


On 21 Nov 2005, at 17:35, Alessandro Manotti wrote:

> Sorry if I introduce myself in this posts.
> Please note that md5 is no more reliable! Since it was officially  
> cracked.
>
> Even Sha-0 was cracked, but it is far incomplete/primitive then sha-1,
> which is the only reliable hash system to verify digital signature,
> software integrity, etc...


From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Nov 21 11:49:24 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:49:24 -0500
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
Message-ID: <web-339444773@mail.maclaunch.com>

Now, maybe I'm wrong, but . . .

I believe that it is perfectly legal to download the
Metacard IDE, download a copy of DC/RR, and then transfer
the RR engine across to the Metacard IDE.

I also know that DC/RR is a commercial product.

However, I also know that Novell have some sort of
agreement with RR re the Linux version of RR 2.2.

So Richard Gaskin's point about Open Source (as in
completely and utterly free) versus commercial (as in
completely and utterly proprietary) seems a black-and-white
explanation/view that doesn't really represent the
situation accurately.

I am happily programming away on a Linux box with Novell's
'FREE' version of RR 2.2, and also happily programmking
away with my licensed version of DC 2.6 (recently upgraded
to 2.6.1).

What might be rather a good idea is if people in the know
(i.e. Richard Gaskin, RR staff members, or the people
involved in the MC IDE development) made an explicit
statement as to what is FREE (as in totally and utterly
free), what is SEMI-FREE (Um ?) and what is COMMERCIAL (as
in totally proprietary).

At present I am working on a series of EFL programs for
teaching Primary Children English - some of the programming
is taking place in my Mac (with my licensed DC 2.6.1) and
some on my Ubuntu Pentium 3 (with my Novell RR 2.2.1). As
well as using the resultant Linux standalones in my own
school I should like to let the Ubuntu organisation have
them for FREE (as in totally free) release to Ubuntu users
elsewhere in the world. Now as far as I understand
standalones made with RR are the property of the
programmer; so I am free (as in totally free) to do what I
like with them.

Sincerely, Richmond Mathewson
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From david at openpartnership.net  Mon Nov 21 11:58:16 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:58:16 +0100
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <web-339444773@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339444773@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <E264C817-DD14-47A9-B5BE-402A9DCC1DBC@openpartnership.net>

On 21 Nov 2005, at 17:49, Mathewson wrote:

> What might be rather a good idea is if people in the know
> (i.e. Richard Gaskin, RR staff members, or the people
> involved in the MC IDE development) made an explicit
> statement as to what is FREE (as in totally and utterly
> free), what is SEMI-FREE (Um ?) and what is COMMERCIAL (as
> in totally proprietary).

This is exactly what would constitute an properly thought out (and  
then hopefully marketed) open source strategy. Well said!



From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Nov 21 12:00:01 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:00:01 -0200
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <CEB5C2EA-9EEC-41A6-8CD0-C737C76600B9@openpartnership.net>
References: <web-339309330@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<437E36F6.7070507@fourthworld.com>
	<D81DFE65-D3EE-4C9C-A598-B57376E3E00D@openpartnership.net>
	<DD0ACC73-9F1D-4405-A0BC-94BF2D21DED2@conncoll.edu>
	<4381EE22.1060605@fourthworld.com>
	<CEB5C2EA-9EEC-41A6-8CD0-C737C76600B9@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <F5B4896E-CE40-4E6C-81EB-E011CF72D045@mac.com>


On Nov 21, 2005, at 2:13 PM, David Bovill wrote:

>
> Basically they insist on open source solutions for Government  
> contracts - also very big supporters of open content (Creative  
> Commons) with Gliberto Gil (Minister of Culture and renowned  
> musician) being largely responsible for getting Creative Commons to  
> add the sampling license to their suite of licenses.
>
> I must confess I do not know the details in Brasil - anyone? But  
> here in Europe out of the last 4 government contracts for projects  
> two virtually insisted on open source and the other two looked on  
> them favourably. The forthcoming EU IST5 call I am helping with is  
> no exception.

Heh,

I think I must step in since I am the only Brazilian in the list.  
Brazil is moving towards linux, there are many popular distros made  
by Brazilian companies and lots (and I mean lots) of Open Source  
Zealots involved with all kinds of branches of the goverment. To  
understand this move one should understand two things, first is  
called Tropicalia which was a cultural movement akin to hippie  
culture that moved much of Brazil during the dictatorship era.  
Tropicalia was rebellion using music, poetry and whichever cultural  
means they could found, it was getting foreign culture (Ie Rock  
Music) and modifing it so it became Brazilian (Thats why it's called  
Tropicalia and Antropofagia Cultural). It was not like some other  
nations that were trying to ban foreign culture, it was like embrace  
and extend, I think the phrase was: "let us use what is good by  
tropicalize the thing.". Gilberto Gil was there and so were others.

Other point to understand is that Brazil is deep linked with some  
kind of Robin Hood Philosophy where we're under some evil rule by  
foreign powers and must steal and give things to the poor. It's more  
metaphorical than reality. So how this translate to software?

Zealots in Brazil see Microsoft as evil power that creates  
proprietary software that costs tons of money to the goverment.  
Solution migrate everything to free software and defy those evil  
powers. The whole goverment moved on that direction, and when  
Brazilian goverment act with tropicalia and robin hood behaviour in  
mind, they will not be stopped. Now that you have the background. Let  
us talk about two consequences here.

Our singing and dancing minister said: "free software is the way!". I  
study at the Federal University of Rio de Janeiro (AKA UFF) at the  
school known as IACS (Social Comunications and Arts Institute), in  
our campus are the journalism, advertising and film schools. When  
goverment decided to run on linux the first thing that happened was a  
task force entered the campus, formatted all machines, installed Red  
Hat. Consequence, work stopped, many classes stopped. No one could  
use Linux, the office suite format would not cross platforms, trying  
to start a document at university for late editing at home with  
windows was a sure way to loose everything. Unicode didn't work.  
Keyboard mapping didn't work, clipboard didn't work... we're still  
trying to solve this issues. The journalism school stopped all  
classes for Desktop Publishing since there's no suite for those tasks  
in linux, the advertising school is forcing GIMP down the throat of  
the students when all they want is Corel Draw back. When all this  
happened, one of the film school teachers came to me and whispered:  
"Andre, thank God tonight because we use Macs and they will never try  
to install linux on our machines.". Yes on the film school we're  
stuck with MacOS 9 and final cut pro 2 but it's better than Red Hat  
for me. That's what happens when goverment decides to migrate itself  
to linux without thinking that in the Real world, people might need  
proprietary platforms, the zealots excuse is: "if we all move, we'll  
create momentum to F/OSS so that better apps will be created." my  
answer is always the same: "Adobe has a team of highly skilled  
engineers, and by that I mean real graduation not late night hacking,  
and it took them years to create PageMaker and InDesign, do you  
really think that half a dozen spare time coders that usually can't  
coordinate among themselves will be able to deliver a similar  
solution in less than a couple years?". Usually after this question,  
they start barking at me for being a "capitalist bastard"

Now, why linux is important for me and why I wanted RunRev to support  
it? There's another goverment project called PC Conectado, which is  
aimed in building cheap computers running linux for the masses. There  
will be two kinds of computers, the really cheap ones that will run  
linux, and the more expensive ones that might run windows, Zeta,  
whatever. I am talking about millions of computers, not thousands,  
millions. One contract with this goverment for bundling your software  
in the machine and boom, millions of users... That project is a good  
idea, the bad part is that some spoiled brats in the goverment are  
ruining it.

Well enough about Brasil.
Cheers
andre

From AbilityForms at aol.com  Mon Nov 21 12:15:06 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:15:06 EST
Subject: Suppress Messages?
Message-ID: <53.336b4260.30b35a9a@aol.com>

Hi Everyone,

I was running a script and at the end of it, buried behind the window I ended 
up on were "Suppress Messages" & "Message Watcher" windows. What did I do to 
have that happen? I need to stop it from happening.

Joe,
Orlando, Florida
We're more than just a mouse!


From jhurley at infostations.com  Mon Nov 21 12:25:37 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:25:37 -0800
Subject: Difference between Step over and Run
In-Reply-To: <20051121135026.CD8B6825307@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051121135026.CD8B6825307@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p0623090ebfa7b1125236@[69.85.136.225]>

I have noticed in the debugger that there is quite a difference in 
time of execution between

    Step over

and

    Run

even when Run takes me to the very next line of code--a line which is 
also a break point.

When the handler to be Stepped over is complex, the time to execute 
Step over can be prohibitive. In such cases I set a break point at 
the next line and Run to the next line. This is VERY much faster.

Is this a bug? Wouldn't it be better if RR executed Step over as if 
it were a Run to the next line of code? Does the "Step over" do 
something other than "Run" to the next line when that next line is a 
breakpoint?

Jim


From brucegregory at earthlink.net  Mon Nov 21 12:37:55 2005
From: brucegregory at earthlink.net (Greg Smith)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:37:55 -0700
Subject: Thinking Graphically or Thinking Symbolically
Message-ID: <438205F3.3070305@earthlink.net>

Jim Ault:

Precisely.



Richard Gaskin:

The Ambrosia product is "out of business"  as far as I can tell.  Which 
brings an interesting point to bear on this subject:  I've purchased 
more than a few "off of the shelf" products that have since ceased being 
supported.  What a slap on the back of the neck with a sand-filled sock 
that is.  Especially if you spent quite a bit of time learning the 
thing.  Maybe, that, in and of itself, is a good reason to learn to 
code, though I don't think it realistic that I would ever have the 
expertise to recode software of the advanced nature that I have been using.

And, you know, I never spent much time solving puzzles.  Programming 
does seem to be for people who really like that sort of thing.

Greg Smith



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Nov 21 12:40:43 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:40:43 -0600
Subject: Scripting conference - Text Munging stack uploaded
Message-ID: <4382069B.3000906@hyperactivesw.com>

Alex Tweedly's scripting conference stack on Text Munging has been 
uploaded for review before this Saturday's conference. This is a very 
useful addition to our archives, and covers some of the text processing 
commands that are often opaque to many of us, including the "format" 
command and the business of regular expressions (known affectionately as 
"regex".) Alex does a great job of explaining these, so download the 
stack and take a look:

<http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences/>

Our conference this Saturday is the final one in the series. I know a 
lot of US-ians will be traveling over the holiday weekend, but if you 
can make it to this conference I'm sure you won't be disappointed. The 
conference will be held at 1133024400 seconds. To convert this to your 
local date and time:

   get 1133024400; convert it to system date and time;put it

See you there!

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From david at openpartnership.net  Mon Nov 21 12:43:37 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:43:37 +0100
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <F5B4896E-CE40-4E6C-81EB-E011CF72D045@mac.com>
References: <web-339309330@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<437E36F6.7070507@fourthworld.com>
	<D81DFE65-D3EE-4C9C-A598-B57376E3E00D@openpartnership.net>
	<DD0ACC73-9F1D-4405-A0BC-94BF2D21DED2@conncoll.edu>
	<4381EE22.1060605@fourthworld.com>
	<CEB5C2EA-9EEC-41A6-8CD0-C737C76600B9@openpartnership.net>
	<F5B4896E-CE40-4E6C-81EB-E011CF72D045@mac.com>
Message-ID: <0345D20D-C69D-4C3D-BA1D-62A330401D53@openpartnership.net>

Hoping you would reply :)

On 21 Nov 2005, at 18:00, Andre Garzia wrote:

> That's what happens when goverment decides to migrate itself to  
> linux without thinking that in the Real world, people might need  
> proprietary platforms, the zealots excuse is: "if we all move,  
> we'll create momentum to F/OSS so that better apps will be created."

> ...

> Usually after this question, they start barking at me for being a  
> "capitalist bastard"

Yep - was not so bad in Munich - but still... in the project here, we  
inherited Linux based Terminal Servers (Novel) - great for watching  
video and tv / media work??? One of the reasons why I would hesitate  
to embrace the "thin client" ideal of Dans is due to this experience  
- we've now replaced these with mini-macs - almost no difference in  
price.

However again this is not "all or nothing" - I can see reintroducing  
the terminal server approach later - and have made web services and  
AJAX / Rails type frameworks a key part of the online project. This  
is firmly an open source and an open content project - and we use  
Revolution.

> Now, why linux is important for me and why I wanted RunRev to  
> support it? There's another goverment project called PC Conectado,  
> which is aimed in building cheap computers running linux for the  
> masses. There will be two kinds of computers, the really cheap ones  
> that will run linux, and the more expensive ones that might run  
> windows, Zeta, whatever. I am talking about millions of computers,  
> not thousands, millions. One contract with this goverment for  
> bundling your software in the machine and boom, millions of  
> users... That project is a good idea, the bad part is that some  
> spoiled brats in the goverment are ruining it.

This is exactly why some good marketing support for an open source  
strategy would be so effective in getting Revolution used in some  
seriously large initiatives. We all now how easy it is for us to  
deliver quality applications (even on Linux save for the video  
support), and outdo anything that traditional open source developers  
can create in the same time frame by a factor of 3 or 4.

But to do that we need to convince the "zealots" and "spoiled brats  
in the government" - which is not that hard - they like cool toys  
that can deliver as much as the next person. Missing is the business  
strategy and the marketing.

From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 21 12:53:33 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:53:33 -0800
Subject: Thinking Graphically or Thinking Symbolically
In-Reply-To: <438205F3.3070305@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BFA7499D.30C63%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

> Programming 
> does seem to be for people who really like that sort of thing.

Yes, Greg, you are so correct in my case.  Love to take bits of code to
produce a result that takes less than a second of computer time.  There are
so many business tasks that are made difficult by poor interface or the
requirement that the user manually follow a long series of steps.  Rev can
convert the manual steps to automated success.

You might be interested to know that I am connecting the capabilities of Rev
with the power of Photoshop to produce an automated environment for
generating graphics to be displayed in a 'simple' Flash 'engine' I have
programmed.  

This is only one of my active programming projects, so it is a part-time
effort.  Rev enables me to work on more than one project at a time much more
efficiently than other languages.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas
Happy.. no, thrilled.. to able to spend hours programming with Rev.


On 11/21/05 9:37 AM, "Greg Smith" <brucegregory at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Jim Ault:
> 
> Precisely.
> 
> 
> 
> Richard Gaskin:
> 
> The Ambrosia product is "out of business"  as far as I can tell.  Which
> brings an interesting point to bear on this subject:  I've purchased
> more than a few "off of the shelf" products that have since ceased being
> supported.  What a slap on the back of the neck with a sand-filled sock
> that is.  Especially if you spent quite a bit of time learning the
> thing.  Maybe, that, in and of itself, is a good reason to learn to
> code, though I don't think it realistic that I would ever have the
> expertise to recode software of the advanced nature that I have been using.
> 

> 
> Greg Smith
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From harvey.toyama at qlogic.com  Mon Nov 21 13:13:21 2005
From: harvey.toyama at qlogic.com (Harvey Toyama)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:13:21 -0800
Subject: combine behavior
Message-ID: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F801B26843@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>

Hi,

I'm using the split and combine to manipulate database records. I notice
that the documentation says that the order of the elements is based on
an internal order. I require a known order for the INSERT and UPDATE
commands to line up correctly. How can I know the order in which my
elements will recombine from an array? It would seem ideal if I could
set the index to be numeric and to use a binary sort.

 

Any suggestions?

 

-- Harvey

-- 

Harvey Toyama

QLogic Corporation

949-389-7601

 



From userev at canelasoftware.com  Mon Nov 21 13:13:38 2005
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:13:38 -0800
Subject: You Either Think Graphically or You Don't
In-Reply-To: <4380CF8F.2050206@earthlink.net>
References: <4380CF8F.2050206@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <48890D30-6A0E-4160-BA13-E3CA9FE1E2B4@canelasoftware.com>


On Nov 20, 2005, at 11:33 AM, Greg Smith wrote:

All of your questions have been answered by others, but I thought I  
would add a few thoughts on a couple of your questions as they  
pertain to me.

> What kind of application do you want to make?

I like making applications for niche markets.  Most of my  
applications are for the general audience of a particular niche.   
This is for the most part different in business models from most I  
have seen.  On this list I have noticed that most of the developers  
create applications for a particular client.  My business model is  
almost as fun as the creation of the tool itself.  I like to meet  
with as many people as possible in as many different fields as  
possible.  Picking their brains on how their job could be made easier  
is the next task.  Analyze the data you derive from all your meetings  
and conversations.  Pay attention to details and look for ways to  
improve the lives of given field.  I have also shifted my direction  
to the private sector over the public sector as the payoff is usually  
much higher (not including the government sector).

>
> What kind of appication like you want to make is already out there  
> by the dozens?

I am not afraid to make an application in a market that already has  
some competition.  My most successful income grossing apps are those  
that do not lend themselves well to a retail shelf.  I find the  
retail market to be less profitable for the size of my team.  I also  
like making apps that will generate more income with fewer  
customers.  The super short reason is that their is less tech support  
involved.  You will also find a lot less competition in carefully  
selected niche markets.

>
> Why make a duplicate of an application that exists and already does  
> most of what you want?
Those tools that already exist may not fit my needs exactly.  I have  
written specific tools that are for my use only.  The time spent  
usually teaches me something new that can be used in income  
generating products down the road.

>
> Why spend months/years learning to develop something that you could  
> buy for relatively little money from someone else?
Programming is an addiction to me that started well before I  
understood the need for money to survive.  This might be harsh, but I  
find that those that learn to program to get a job usually fail or  
hate their decision and eventually quit.  Those that start  
programming for the joy of coding and solving problems usually last a  
lifetime and generate more income.

>
> Is your idea really that much better than one that has already been  
> put into code?

The answer to this is closely connected to my second answer.  I like  
finding a market that already has a product leader in a relatively  
young market.  The company that is leading the pack has spent a good  
amount of time, energy, and money teaching the market they need their  
tool.  By the time the customers come around to purchasing the tool,  
you can ride on the jet stream they have created and take advantage  
of the mistakes in their product logic.  In most cases, you can  
quickly exceed their success and take the market over.  Think Google  
and Yahoo.  Of course, the same can be said about your product if you  
do not stay ahead of the pack.  Then you must rely on answer number  
four to maintain that distance.  Once again, the love of programming  
will be required to keep you going as money will no longer be a  
factor.  Once your income meets and/or exceeds your needs, only the  
love software development will keep you going!


Mark Talluto
-- 
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From pierre.bernaert at mac.com  Mon Nov 21 13:15:42 2005
From: pierre.bernaert at mac.com (Pierre Bernaert)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 19:15:42 +0100
Subject: Message in an unprotected field...
Message-ID: <C1A35BEA-4B4C-45EE-ABD1-06FFF8040703@mac.com>

Help needed,

I'm writing an application in which  I want to control the Key board  
input (Number of characters, type of characters ...).

- Rev 2.6.5.108
- Mac Mini
- Tiger X.4.2

     The field  into which the typing goes is unprotected

         LockText = false.

Clicking somewhere into it gives an "Openfield" message which allow  
me to get the "ClickChunk" and so the line, the item, the word and  
the select position. That's fine.

If without going outside the field I click somewhere else it seems  
that no message is sent and I can't get the new "Select" position as,  
unless I miss something,  no message is sent to  tell me that the  
user changes is mind.

If found the beginning of a solution thru a pooling method but that  
will make my job harder.

I'm curious to know if somebody has a solution or the name of a  
message I missed.

Thank you for helping me


  


From userev at canelasoftware.com  Mon Nov 21 13:16:19 2005
From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:16:19 -0800
Subject: keycodes??
In-Reply-To: <437E4752.5010104@comcast.net>
References: <1BD42470-9170-499A-A8BA-BBA18AD4A4EA@conncoll.edu>
	<f99b52860511181254q4dd051c8ob0f65ef4f65ca768@mail.gmail.com>
	<437E4752.5010104@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <0F77DFA2-137D-4D18-83CB-205ED2624026@canelasoftware.com>


On Nov 18, 2005, at 1:27 PM, Phil Davis wrote:

> Sarah Reichelt wrote:
>> On 11/19/05, Charles Hartman <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu> wrote:
>>> Sometimes I need to use rawKeyDown handlers, which receive a keyCode
>>> parameter. Two questions: is there a table of these somewhere? and,
>>> are these cross-platform? (If I have to use two tables, and wrap
>>> everything in an "if platform" structure, I'm going to be very sad.)
>>>
>> Here is a link to a test stack I wrote to show you the key codes for
>> various keys: <http://www.troz.net/Rev/tutorials/KeyCoder.rev.gz>
>> I have always assumed they are cross-platform and don't remember
>> hearing of any problems.
>
>
> In my testing, I've seen platform differences in the keycodes of  
> some numeric keys (possibly uppercase?) and I think also the 10- 
> keypad keys (though I'm not certain about that one). I've never  
> compared non-numeric keycodes across platforms so I can't speak to  
> that.
>

I too have found that there are some difference between platforms.   
Here is a small snippet of code that I use to check for key entries:

on rawKeyDown which

     --CHECK FOR DECIMAL
     if which = 46 then pass rawkeyDown

     --CHECK FOR ARROW KEYS
     if which = 65361 or which = 65363  then pass rawkeyDown

     --CHECK FOR DELETE KEY PRESSES
     if which = 65288 then pass rawkeyDown

     --CHECK FOR FORWARD DELETE
     if which = 65535 then pass rawkeyDown

     --MAKE SURE INPUT IS A NUMBER (ABOVE LETTERS)
     if which >=48 and which <=57 then pass rawKeyDown

     --MAKE SURE INPUT IS A NUMBER (NUMERIC KEYPAD LINUX)
     if the platform is "linux" then
         if which >=65456 and which <=65465 then pass rawKeyDown
     end if

     --MAKE SURE INPUT IS A NUMBER (NUMERIC KEYPAD MAC & WIN)
     if the platform is "macos" or the platform is "win32" then
         if which >=65429 and which <=65439 then pass rawKeyDown
     end if
end rawKeyDown



Mark Talluto
-- 
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Nov 21 13:20:10 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:20:10 -0600
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <web-339444773@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339444773@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <43820FDA.8000508@hyperactivesw.com>

Mathewson wrote:
> Now, maybe I'm wrong, but . . .
> 
> I believe that it is perfectly legal to download the
> Metacard IDE, download a copy of DC/RR, and then transfer
> the RR engine across to the Metacard IDE.

Correct. However, note that since your copy of the IDE won't be 
licensed, all your scripts will be limited to ten lines.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Nov 21 13:19:28 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:19:28 -0500
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
Message-ID: <web-339447193@mail.maclaunch.com>

My wife is Bulgarian, her father was ina Communist prison
camp . . . 

Oh, Dear, Richmond gets personal again!

Yes, he does . . . 

I would like to take issue with Senor Garzia:

(and, I suppose this all comes down to politics)

I am not a socialist, and not a communist, and not a
supporter of pie-in-the-sky ideas propped up by some sage's
half-baked ideology that fails to take human nature into
account.

Earliert his year I went to Sofia (Capital of Bulgaria) and
listened to Richard Stallman, and reached the follwoing
conclusions:

1. He is a long-haired hippy rather like the ones in Brazil
(mind you, I bet he can't speech portugese).

2. I agreed with almost everything he said - BUT not for
the silly, loony-lefty reasons he gave.

3. I want a world where there is NO social handout system;
BUT where everybody has a reasonably level playing-field to
start off from: so they can't come whining, subsequently,
about being born in the wrong place at the wrong time, as
an excuse for their laziness or turpitude.

I am also not a utopian who wishes to sweep away Microsoft
and Macintosh for a 'new millenium' of open source software
full of holes. To prove a point, I'm writing this to you in
Firefox (an open source browser) running on Windows XP (not
open source unless I'm very stupid and missed something). I
do 90% of my programming on a number of Macintosh computers
with Mac OS X that cost me a whole lot of money which I
earned with my own, fair, used-to-be lily-white hands.

However, I do think that there is a place for open source
initiatives; especially in places such as (and if any one
wants to point out that I am not politically correct; don't
waste your time - I am a fairly right-wing reactionary - so
there) Africa (or, to put it really crudely; the places
where the colonial powers made the mistake of leaving
without bothering to educate the local people so they could
get ahead rather than become prey to horrible dicators;
c.f. Mugabe, Idi Amin, and so on), India and the rest of
the sub-continent, where a very large section of the
population doesn't stand a chance to get on the escalator
which will give them a chance in a proper meritocracy.

What is a big sadness to me is that open-source software is
associated with lefties, 'pinkos', 'long-haired loonies' or
whatever, when the need to use open-source should be seen
not as a political stance at all, but as a way to increase
everybody's level of knowledge, wealth and so on.

Now, one day a week, from February, I will be offering
Bulgarian school teachers, free programming classes using
the Novell RR 2.2.1 on Ubuntu - all their school computers
(such as they are - few) run on Microsoft Windows 98 - it
is their problem as to how they transfer that empowering
knowledge; either by badgering the BG government to buy
licences for RR, or by badgering the govt/local ed.
authority to go open source.  Why am I offering these free
classes ? - because it will work as an advertisement for
both my language school and for my freelance computer
installation and programming work.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From david at openpartnership.net  Mon Nov 21 13:26:40 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 19:26:40 +0100
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <43820FDA.8000508@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <web-339444773@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<43820FDA.8000508@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <D17F9061-B933-42A3-9F7A-C24445D1BEF5@openpartnership.net>


On 21 Nov 2005, at 19:20, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Mathewson wrote:
>
>> Now, maybe I'm wrong, but . . .
>> I believe that it is perfectly legal to download the
>> Metacard IDE, download a copy of DC/RR, and then transfer
>> the RR engine across to the Metacard IDE.
>>
>
> Correct. However, note that since your copy of the IDE won't be  
> licensed, all your scripts will be limited to ten lines.

Unless you have a Rev license - then you have an open source IDE  
built on top of a proprietary engine - similar to flash and not too  
far even from Java where the developer has effectively no control of  
the runtime bite-code compiler which is free but not open.

Java projects are generally thought of as pure open source - Rev  
projects could be marketed in a very similar fashion. With Java you  
often pay mucho for professional development environments - though  
there are "free" open source versions available.


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Mon Nov 21 13:30:41 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:30:41 -0500
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <43820FDA.8000508@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <web-339444773@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<43820FDA.8000508@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <08EB1198-5487-4720-857D-51DE720C1B24@conncoll.edu>

I assume that in DreamCard I can write an OSI-certifiable "thingie"  
that is a DM stack, with StackRunner bundled with it.

Charles Hartman

On Nov 21, 2005, at 1:20 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Mathewson wrote:
>> Now, maybe I'm wrong, but . . .
>> I believe that it is perfectly legal to download the
>> Metacard IDE, download a copy of DC/RR, and then transfer
>> the RR engine across to the Metacard IDE.
>
> Correct. However, note that since your copy of the IDE won't be  
> licensed, all your scripts will be limited to ten lines.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk  Mon Nov 21 13:33:49 2005
From: mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:33:49 +0000
Subject: Message in an unprotected field...
In-Reply-To: <C1A35BEA-4B4C-45EE-ABD1-06FFF8040703@mac.com>
References: <C1A35BEA-4B4C-45EE-ABD1-06FFF8040703@mac.com>
Message-ID: <4382130D.9090502@harbourhost.co.uk>

Pierre Bernaert wrote:
> Clicking somewhere into it gives an "Openfield" message which allow  me 
> to get the "ClickChunk" and so the line, the item, the word and  the 
> select position. That's fine.
> 
> If without going outside the field I click somewhere else it seems  that 
> no message is sent and I can't get the new "Select" position as,  unless 
> I miss something,  no message is sent to  tell me that the  user changes 
> is mind.
> I'm curious to know if somebody has a solution or the name of a  message 
> I missed.
> 
> Thank you for helping me

Possibly the selectionchanged message is what you are looking for?

Martin Baxter


From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Nov 21 13:29:51 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:29:51 -0500
Subject: StackRunner ?
Message-ID: <web-339447868@mail.maclaunch.com>

Charles Hartman mentions something called 'StackRunner'

sorry, obviously missed this

I know about Dreamcard Player

but not 'StackRunner'

Please elucidate

sincerely, Richmond
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From david at openpartnership.net  Mon Nov 21 13:40:01 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 19:40:01 +0100
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <web-339447193@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339447193@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <90671542-D123-4D05-81CF-F0C9D38A5014@openpartnership.net>


On 21 Nov 2005, at 19:19, Mathewson wrote:

> My wife is Bulgarian, her father was ina Communist prison
> camp . . .

Goli Otok?

> Earliert his year I went to Sofia (Capital of Bulgaria) and
> listened to Richard Stallman, and reached the follwoing
> conclusions:
>
> 1. He is a long-haired hippy rather like the ones in Brazil
> (mind you, I bet he can't speech portugese).
>
> 2. I agreed with almost everything he said - BUT not for
> the silly, loony-lefty reasons he gave.

Mr Stallman is a little difficult.

> However, I do think that there is a place for open source
> initiatives; especially in places such as (and if any one
> wants to point out that I am not politically correct; don't
> waste your time - I am a fairly right-wing reactionary - so
> there) Africa (or, to put it really crudely; the places
> where the colonial powers made the mistake of leaving
> without bothering to educate the local people so they could
> get ahead rather than become prey to horrible dicators;
> c.f. Mugabe, Idi Amin, and so on), India and the rest of
> the sub-continent, where a very large section of the
> population doesn't stand a chance to get on the escalator
> which will give them a chance in a proper meritocracy.

The reasons local government in many regions support open source, the  
reason the EU and Brasil and Spain and support open source is that  
money that would be spent on largely US bases licenses can instead be  
spent on training and local skills acquisition.

It is a myth to think that open source is free or saves money - it  
simply redirects the cost to developer time, while empowering those  
very developers to go on and create new cool stuff (locally).

We largely have left wing long haired Americans  to thank for this  
very un-american economic attitude. However it is absolutely no  
surprise that this comes from the US - as it is about freedom of  
knowledge (read speech) in the digital era.

Open source may be about (facilitate) "sharing" - but their is  
nothing left wing about the desire to stimulate innovation in the  
market by ensuring a healthy transfer of knowledge and avoiding  
monopoly.

Can i suggest that we move the political aspect of this discourse to  
a suitable Yahoo Group?

From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Nov 21 13:40:46 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:40:46 -0600
Subject: StackRunner ?
In-Reply-To: <web-339447868@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <BFA770CE.302B1%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/21/05 12:29 PM, "Mathewson" <richmond at mail.maclaunch.com> wrote:

> Charles Hartman mentions something called 'StackRunner'
> 
> sorry, obviously missed this
> 
> I know about Dreamcard Player
> 
> but not 'StackRunner'
> 
> Please elucidate

StackRunner is a Dreamcard Player replacement - you can find more about it
here:

http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads/StackRunner.htm

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Nov 21 13:50:03 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:50:03 -0800
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <web-339444773@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339444773@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <438216DB.4080506@fourthworld.com>

Mathewson wrote:
> What might be rather a good idea is if people in the know
> (i.e. Richard Gaskin, RR staff members, or the people
> involved in the MC IDE development) made an explicit
> statement as to what is FREE (as in totally and utterly
> free), what is SEMI-FREE (Um ?) and what is COMMERCIAL (as
> in totally proprietary).

The license is the best place to start.  The MC IDE license spells out 
its own terms, and points to the Rev license which governs the engine.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 21 14:07:02 2005
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:07:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: combine behavior
In-Reply-To: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F801B26843@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>
Message-ID: <20051121190703.94257.qmail@web60522.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Harvey Toyama <harvey.toyama at qlogic.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm using the split and combine to manipulate
> database records. I notice
> that the documentation says that the order of the
> elements is based on
> an internal order. I require a known order for the
> INSERT and UPDATE
> commands to line up correctly. How can I know the
> order in which my
> elements will recombine from an array? It would seem
> ideal if I could
> set the index to be numeric and to use a binary
> sort.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> -- Harvey
> 

Hi Harvey,

You are correct: combine will place them in an
internal order (which happens to be the hash-value of
the keys of the array).

There are two options: either you roll your own
combine command, or you use the sort command after
combining the array, to get it in the order you want.

Option 1:
--
put the keys of tDataArray into tKeys
sort tKeys numeric             ## or some other sort
repeat for each line tKey in tKeys
  put tkey & return after tSortedData
end repeat
delete char -1 of tSortedData  ## remove trailing
return
--

Option 2:
--
combine tDataArray using return and tab
sort tDaatArray numeric by item 1 of each
--

Of course, you'll have to adapt the above a bit to
suit the structure of the data in your array.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.


Quartam - Tools for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Nov 21 14:08:22 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:08:22 -0800
Subject: [OT] Web Services Dead? Don't Tell Amazon
Message-ID: <3852EFD6-99E0-4608-8DAE-93EFF7D45844@danshafer.com>

During our recent thread on thin-client vs. desktop apps, several  
people suggested that Web Services were passe, outre and otherwise  
obsolete and deadsville.

Someone forgot to tell amazon.com. They announced not one, not two,  
but three totally new Web services just this morning.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From david at openpartnership.net  Mon Nov 21 14:12:49 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 20:12:49 +0100
Subject: [OT] Web Services Dead? Don't Tell Amazon
In-Reply-To: <3852EFD6-99E0-4608-8DAE-93EFF7D45844@danshafer.com>
References: <3852EFD6-99E0-4608-8DAE-93EFF7D45844@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <011E1B9E-34FD-4E6C-AAA8-3822CDCC2874@openpartnership.net>

On 21 Nov 2005, at 20:08, Dan Shafer wrote:

> During our recent thread on thin-client vs. desktop apps, several  
> people suggested that Web Services were passe, outre and otherwise  
> obsolete and deadsville.
>
> Someone forgot to tell amazon.com. They announced not one, not two,  
> but three totally new Web services just this morning.

Amazon is a good case-study. Since they introduced RESTful web  
services rather than SOAP or XMLRPC 85% of their web service users  
user the REST based interface (it is simpler and works) - think "post  
to url", and "get url").


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Nov 21 14:19:14 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:19:14 -0800
Subject: [OT] Game Engine (was Thinking Graphically or Thinking Symbolically)
In-Reply-To: <438205F3.3070305@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BFA75DB2.256D3%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently,Greg Smith wrote:

> The Ambrosia product is "out of business"  as far as I can tell.

Which product are you referring to?  Unity still seems very alive:

  http://otee.dk/index.html

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Nov 21 14:24:45 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:24:45 -0800
Subject: You Either Think Graphically or You Don't
In-Reply-To: <200511210648.jAL6mVWP007922@mail21.syd.optusnet.com.au>
References: <200511210648.jAL6mVWP007922@mail21.syd.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <3B8BE226-BEEB-48B7-80C8-3CFEB4063E72@danshafer.com>

For me, primarily a writer who sees programming as an alternate form  
of communication, the answer to the question "why program?" is the  
same as the answer to the question "why write?" or "why paint?" It is  
in the nature of human beings to create. Each of us has different  
talents and interests and skills and capabilities and curiosities.  
Each of us has different perceived needs in the realm of software to  
deal with our day-to-day tasks.

Many of the Revolution apps I've built for myself and others could  
have been done some other way. Perhaps a set of complex Excel macros  
could have done the job. Or an off-the-shelf piece of software could  
come close. But to get that perfect fit between a perceived need and  
a solution requires a form of artistry that expresses itself in code  
and UI design in much the same way a custom drawing depicts "just so"  
a scene or person that could have been captured roughly  by some less  
artistic and precise method.

WHy code? Coding is not for everyone. In fact, everyone I know who  
codes would say there are many days when coding isn't enjoyable or at  
least isn't their preferred activity. Just as many artist friends  
will tell me that there are many days they'd rather e sailing or  
walking the dog than painting or sculpting. But like art, software  
design and development -- including the grunt work of coding -- gets  
into your blood. It becomes part of who you see yourself as being.  
You could no more quit coding than you could quit thinking because  
very often you think in code. I look at any problem/opportunity in  
the real world and my first instinct is, "How can I explain this  
better?" (that's the writer in me) and my second instinct is, "What  
kind of software could make that problem more tractable?" (that's the  
coder in me).

Every year I receive hundreds of emails and correspondence from  
people who seek advice about starting or continuing their writing  
careers. I tell them all the same thing. "Don't write unless you  
cannot not write." I'd say the same goes for coding. Many people who  
say they love writing actually love having written; they like the  
result, but not the process. Same is true for coding. Same, I  
suspect, is true of artists.

My 2 Euros.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From david at openpartnership.net  Mon Nov 21 14:27:42 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 20:27:42 +0100
Subject: Spelling out the license - some geometry handlers
In-Reply-To: <3B8BE226-BEEB-48B7-80C8-3CFEB4063E72@danshafer.com>
References: <200511210648.jAL6mVWP007922@mail21.syd.optusnet.com.au>
	<3B8BE226-BEEB-48B7-80C8-3CFEB4063E72@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <F985D6A0-00C4-47CA-8FEE-66B79BFC5174@openpartnership.net>

Agreed

On 21 Nov 2005, at 19:50, Richard Gaskin wrote:
The license is the best place to start.  The MC IDE license spells  
out its own terms, and points to the Rev license which governs the  
engine.

As an example:

Some recent code I have been working on trying to formalise the exact  
issues going on with the various wonderful "formatted" sizes you can  
get Rev to return (see below):

License
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution- 
NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.5 License. To view a copy of this license,  
visit http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/ or send a  
letter to Creative Commons, 543 Howard Street, 5th Floor, San  
Francisco, California, 94105, USA.

Comment
This means that you can use it without asking for non-commercial  
reasons - education or for your own use for example. It also means  
that you may freely distribute to others, but should you charge or  
sell the product commercially then you need to get back to me and  
negotiate. Lastly if you modify it and redistribute, then you under  
the license you are required to notify me of the content of your  
modifications so that I can benefit.

Now of course for a small piece of code like this - well may as well  
be given away public domain (which is dubious legally in many  
countries). But this is an example.

The problem with much of the freely available code, content, icons,  
whatever in this community is that pooled they make a fabulous  
resource - but not a legal one. That is you really have to go to each  
and every contributor and clear the license for every submission (if  
you can get hold of them and if you can't you are stuck).

Without doing this, we all loose as we cannot scale the community  
contributions. A well thought out open source strategy would open  
some of the RunRev content - say the documentation, and create a  
policy (say on this list or at another location) which defaults to  
all submissions of code and creative content posted to use a given  
license.

--> Groups and formatted sizes
-
function rect_GetVisibleRect groupRect, someGroup
     put the margins of someGroup into someMargin
     margin_Normalise someMargin, left_Margin, top_Margin,  
right_Margin, bottom_Margin
     if the showBorder of someGroup is true then
         put the borderWidth of someGroup into someBorder
         if the showName of someGroup is true then
             put the effective textHeight of someGroup - someBorder -  
1 into someBit
             add someBit to item 2 of someMargin
         end if
         put subtractMargin(someBorder, groupRect) into groupRect
     end if
     put subtractMargin(someMargin, groupRect) into myInner_Rect
     return myInner_Rect
end rect_GetVisibleRect

on rect_SetVisibleRect myGroupRect, showInvisible
     put the long id of me into containerGroup

     -- object dependent

     put rect_GetVisibleRect(myGroupRect, containerGroup) into  
myInner_Rect
     -- testRect myInner_Rect, "Inner Rect"

     put the toplevel_GroupIDs of containerGroup into topGroupIDs
     put myInner_Rect into innerGroup_Rect
     repeat for each line someID in topGroupIDs
         if the visible of control id someID is false then
             if showInvisible is true then
                 set the visible of control id someID to true
             else
                 next repeat
             end if
         end if

         put the height of control id someID into groupHeight
         put item 2 of innerGroup_Rect + groupHeight into group_Bottom
         put group_Bottom into item 4 of innerGroup_Rect

         set the group_Rect of control id someID to innerGroup_Rect
         put group_Bottom into item 2 of innerGroup_Rect
     end repeat
end rect_SetVisibleRect

function group_InnerRect someGroupObject, groupMargins
   put the rect of someGroupObject into groupRect
   if myMargins is empty then put the margins of someGroupObject into  
groupMargins
   put subtractMargin(groupMargins, groupRect) into myRect
   return myRect
end group_InnerRect

function width_MaxIndexGroupContainerWidth containingGroup
     put empty into widthList
     put the number of groups of containingGroup into maxNum
     repeat with groupNum = 1 to maxNum
         -- maybe can use formatted width of group?
         put the long id of group groupNum of containingGroup into  
indexGroup
         put the long id of fld 1 of indexGroup into someField
         put width_RealFormatted(someField) & "," after widthList
     end repeat
     return max(widthList)
end width_MaxIndexGroupContainerWidth

function formattedWidth_GetField someText, someField, someTextStyle
     lock screen
     put the htmlText of someField into oHtmlText
     set the text of someField to someText
     if someTextStyle is not empty then
         set the textStyle of char 1 to -1 of someField to someTextStyle
     end if
     put the formattedWidth of someField into someWidth
     set the htmlText of someField to oHtmlText
     unlock screen
     return someWidth
end formattedWidth_GetField

function width_RealFormatted someObject
     put the formattedWidth of someObject into someWidth
     if the showBorder of someObject is true then
         add (2 * the borderWidth of someObject) to someWidth
     end if
     return someWidth
end width_RealFormatted

function height_RealFormatted someObject
     put the formattedHeight of someObject into someHeight
     if the showBorder of someObject is true then
         add (2 * the borderHeight of someObject) to someHeight
     end if
     return someHeight
end height_RealFormatted


--> Margins
-
function addMargin someMargins, someRect
     margin_Normalise someMargin, left_Margin, top_Margin,  
right_Margin, bottom_Margin
     subtract left_Margin from item 1 of someRect
     subtract top_Margin from item 2 of someRect
     add right_Margin to item 3 of someRect
     add bottom_Margin to item 4 of someRect
     return someRect
end addMargin

function subtractMargin someMargin, someRect
     margin_Normalise someMargin, left_Margin, top_Margin,  
right_Margin, bottom_Margin
     add left_Margin to item 1 of someRect
     add top_Margin to item 2 of someRect
     subtract right_Margin from item 3 of someRect
     subtract bottom_Margin from item 4 of someRect
     return someRect
end subtractMargin

on margin_Normalise @someMargin, @left_Margin, @top_Margin,  
@right_Margin, @bottom_Margin
     if the number of items of someMargin = 1 then
         put someMargin into left_Margin
         put someMargin into top_Margin
         put someMargin into right_Margin
         put someMargin into bottom_Margin
     else
         put item 1 of someMargin into left_Margin
         put item 2 of someMargin into top_Margin
         put item 3 of someMargin into right_Margin
         put item 4 of someMargin into bottom_Margin
     end if
     put left_Margin,top_Margin,right_Margin,bottom_Margin into  
someMargin
end margin_Normalise


From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Nov 21 14:28:12 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:28:12 -0800
Subject: You Either Think Graphically or You Don't
In-Reply-To: <48890D30-6A0E-4160-BA13-E3CA9FE1E2B4@canelasoftware.com>
References: <4380CF8F.2050206@earthlink.net>
	<48890D30-6A0E-4160-BA13-E3CA9FE1E2B4@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.10.1.20051121102013.019da3f8@pon.net>

Hi Greg,

I found your questions and the previous responses quite 
thoughtful.  Rather than give you brief answers to all questions, I 
would like to focus on just one: why does it take so long to bring a 
software project from concept to completion?

Development of software that interacts with, or presents information 
to, human users is both a creative process and a series of  logic 
puzzles.  One begins with a goal or concept and materializes same in 
the medium with which one works -- in this case computer input and 
output devices.

But software development is different from creative activities such 
as painting or composing music because:

(A)  Virtually all software creations require some physical user 
interaction beyond simply passively experiencing them, and

(B)  Most software creations have one or more utilitarian goals; so 
they can be fairly judged "correct" or "incorrect" by others that the 
artist/composer.

Implications of this are:

* The creator must guide the experiencer through the experience

* The creator must take into account that the experiencer's 
participation may not be voluntary (eg: business software)

* The creative process does not end when the experience achieves the 
creator's goals: the creator must anticipate how a user may diminish 
the experience (eg: by hitting a wrong key or entering nonsensical 
responses) and include within the creation mechanisms to prevent such 
situations or guide the experience gracefully back to the intended state.

*  The creator must compensate for the fact that different computer 
hardware configurations tend to present the experience differently.

*  A software work in progress often presents little in the way of 
physical manifestation as to how it's coming together until late in 
the creative process.  One can see paint filling canvas and hear the 
progress of a musical composition; but it's often well into the last 
stages of pre-alpha testing before one has a sense of the potential 
quality of the experience.

A corallary of this is that better or enhanced mechanisms for 
improving the experience, achieving the original goals, and/or adding 
additional functionality are routinely not discovered until late in 
the development process.

* A software creation is often not static, but is modified over time; 
so the creative process must include instructions for others or notes 
to the creator to facilitate future changes.

* The software creative process also requires preparation of written 
instructions to people you will never meet telling them how to experience it.

Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
  Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

  from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)



From gregory.lypny at videotron.ca  Mon Nov 21 14:29:08 2005
From: gregory.lypny at videotron.ca (Gregory Lypny)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:29:08 -0500
Subject: Filter Command
Message-ID: <C3104EBF-C064-4D12-83DD-9B2C4BB1D59A@videotron.ca>

Hello Everyone,

	I'm having a bit of trouble with the Filter command giving me false  
positives.  I'm picking off company names in a file containing news  
headlines.  The headlines file has one headline per line, and each  
line is tab delimited, where the first item is a unique story number  
and the second is the actual headline.  It looks something like this:

1	tab	First headline text
2	tab	Second headline text
3	tab	Third headline text
...

My search command is of the form

	    filter it with "*" & tab & "*" & companyName & "*"

	This seems to works fine for all my companies except for "TSE 100  
Index Participation Fund Units".  I'm getting a lot of hits that  
contain "TSE" (Toronto Stock Exchange) in the headline but not the  
rest of the name.  This does not happen with other long names or  
names that have a common proper noun (e.g., Canada Bread gives me  
four hits all mentioning Canada Bread and none mentioning Canada or  
Bread alone).

	Any thoughts?

		Regards,

			Greg




From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 21 14:30:20 2005
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:30:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [OT] Web Services Dead? Don't Tell Amazon
In-Reply-To: <3852EFD6-99E0-4608-8DAE-93EFF7D45844@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <20051121193020.55681.qmail@web60525.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:
> During our recent thread on thin-client vs. desktop
> apps, several  
> people suggested that Web Services were passe, outre
> and otherwise  
> obsolete and deadsville.
> 
> Someone forgot to tell amazon.com. They announced
> not one, not two,  
> but three totally new Web services just this
> morning.
> 

Don't look at me: I would never suggest that web
services are dead -- on the contrary, they provide a
structured and relatively easy-to-use way to write
client-server/online applications.

In fact, a lot of applications which switched over to
the WS paradigm ages ago, are reaping the benefits of
this decision now, as they find it easier to integrate
their applications with Message Queues and Enterprise
Service Bus infrastructures.

Thanks to Web Services, these application designers
can mix and match the best technologies to achieve the
quickest results: Rev and .NET clients, ASP/JSP/PHP
servers with MySQL/PostgreSQL/... back-ends, where
good use of XML and SQL allow you to switch out any of
the assembled parts when the need arises.

An excellent series on this approach can be read on
O'Reilly's MacDevCenter website: [Applying "Digital
Hub" concepts to Enterprise Software Design / by Adam
Behringer]
- Part 1:
<http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/05/04/enterprise.html>
- Part 2:
<http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/05/21/enterprise_2.html>
- Part 3:
<http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/06/18/enterprise_3.html>
- Part 4:
<http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/07/30/enterprise_4.html>
- Part 5:
<http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/09/17/enterprise_5.html>
- Part 6:
<http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/02/25/enterprise_6.html>

Yes, it is a lot of reading, and it doesn't involve
Rev, but you can learn for the basic concept: how this
approach allows us to build powerful, flexible
applications.

However, I still don't think that letting the server
do all the work while your computer is sitting there
as a glorified VT100 terminal, is the optimal design
of a distributed application. Let the server do what
it's best at: serve shared data ; and the client do
what it's best at: edit private data and interact with
the server to create, read, update and delete shared
data.

I'd much rather not do that in a browser, but that's
just me...

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Nov 21 14:33:20 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:33:20 -0800
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <4381F2E6.2020701@fourthworld.com>
References: <web-339309330@mail.maclaunch.com>	<437E36F6.7070507@fourthworld.com>
	<D81DFE65-D3EE-4C9C-A598-B57376E3E00D@openpartnership.net>
	<4381F2E6.2020701@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <AD497F8B-4D4A-427F-863E-E7176CE525C4@danshafer.com>

Richard....

I know you know this, but just to keep the conversation clear, "open  
source" doesn't mean "free of charge." Not  on any level.

A lot of open source software is available for free. Some isn't  
(MySQL comes to mind immediately). But lots and lots of programmers  
make lots and lots of money *using* open source and *that's*  
generally the requirement governments are placing on these projects.  
IOW, they don't insist the software they buy be free of charge, just  
built on freely distributable bases.

Again, I know you know this, but I felt the urge to clarify. (Can't  
help it. I'm a writer first.)


On Nov 21, 2005, at 8:16 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> David Bovill wrote:
>
> > Linux support is not about how many desktops you can sell
> > applications to - it is about the quality of developers
> > you can  attract
>
> I could write apps for the Pope, but if he won't give me something  
> in return it'll be just as hard for me to pay my rent as writing  
> for slobs.
>
> Classism, in any form, doesn't determine viability.
>
> > and the ability to deliver intranet
>
> I've been shipping internanet and extranet apps for years, for  
> people who feel my time is worth giving something back for.
>
> > and government  contracts (at least here in Europe) which
> > specify support for open  platforms. It is also about being
> > able to leverage the huge amount of  "free" code that is
> > available on this platform and integrate it into  the project.
>
> Depends on the license requirements, doesn't it?  That is, even if  
> I inherit enough wealth to be able to afford the luxury of working  
> for free, at the end of the day the RunRev engine isn't open source  
> so it's not possible for me to deliver truly open materials which  
> rely on it.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Managing Editor, revJournal
>  _______________________________________________________
>  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From shaosean at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 21 14:36:07 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:36:07 -0500
Subject: SHA-1 algorithm in xTalk
In-Reply-To: <20051121135026.CD8B6825307@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-F343868FF0FB86C79A9EF3EC3530@phx.gbl>

I was busy this weekend learning about how to create MBR's and FileSystems 
in disk images, but I'll be finishing up the SHA-1 algorithm testing tonight 
(just need to finish my work first)

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



From david at openpartnership.net  Mon Nov 21 14:37:32 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 20:37:32 +0100
Subject: [OT] Web Services Dead? Don't Tell Amazon
In-Reply-To: <20051121193020.55681.qmail@web60525.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051121193020.55681.qmail@web60525.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CDA85357-3D21-4551-9AF2-31EA2DFD29A7@openpartnership.net>

On 21 Nov 2005, at 20:30, Jan Schenkel wrote:

> However, I still don't think that letting the server
> do all the work while your computer is sitting there
> as a glorified VT100 terminal, is the optimal design
> of a distributed application. Let the server do what
> it's best at: serve shared data ; and the client do
> what it's best at: edit private data and interact with
> the server to create, read, update and delete shared
> data.
>
> I'd much rather not do that in a browser, but that's
> just me...

Me too :)



From david at openpartnership.net  Mon Nov 21 14:58:39 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 20:58:39 +0100
Subject: Spelling out the license - some geometry handlers
In-Reply-To: <F985D6A0-00C4-47CA-8FEE-66B79BFC5174@openpartnership.net>
References: <200511210648.jAL6mVWP007922@mail21.syd.optusnet.com.au>
	<3B8BE226-BEEB-48B7-80C8-3CFEB4063E72@danshafer.com>
	<F985D6A0-00C4-47CA-8FEE-66B79BFC5174@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <CDA4DE43-E1B6-4EE8-B668-2EF2DD3FF28F@openpartnership.net>

Sorry some bug fixes - sure they can be improved sped up?


License
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution- 
NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.5 License. To view a copy of this license,  
visit http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/ or send a  
letter to Creative Commons, 543 Howard Street, 5th Floor, San  
Francisco, California, 94105, USA.


--> Groups and formatted sizes
-
function rect_GetVisibleRect groupRect, someGroup
     put the margins of someGroup into someMargin
     if the showBorder of someGroup is true then
         put the borderWidth of someGroup into someBorder
         if the showName of someGroup is true then
             put the effective textHeight of someGroup - someBorder -  
1 into someBit
             add someBit to item 2 of someMargin
         end if
         put subtractMargin(someBorder, groupRect) into groupRect
     end if
     put subtractMargin(someMargin, groupRect) into myInner_Rect
     return myInner_Rect
end rect_GetVisibleRect

on rect_SetVisibleRect myGroupRect, containerGroup, showInvisible
     put rect_GetVisibleRect(myGroupRect, containerGroup) into  
myInner_Rect
     testRect myInner_Rect, "Inner Rect"

     put the toplevel_GroupIDs of containerGroup into topGroupIDs
     put myInner_Rect into innerGroup_Rect
     repeat for each line someID in topGroupIDs
         if the visible of control id someID is false then
             if showInvisible is true then
                 set the visible of control id someID to true
             else
                 next repeat
             end if
         end if

         put the height of control id someID into groupHeight
         put item 2 of innerGroup_Rect + groupHeight into group_Bottom
         put group_Bottom into item 4 of innerGroup_Rect

         set the group_Rect of control id someID to innerGroup_Rect
         put group_Bottom into item 2 of innerGroup_Rect
     end repeat
end rect_SetVisibleRect

function width_MaxIndexGroupContainerWidth containingGroup
     put empty into widthList
     put the number of groups of containingGroup into maxNum
     repeat with groupNum = 1 to maxNum
         -- maybe can use formatted width of group?
         put the long id of group groupNum of containingGroup into  
indexGroup
         put the long id of fld 1 of indexGroup into someField
         put width_RealFormatted(someField) & "," after widthList
     end repeat
     return max(widthList)
end width_MaxIndexGroupContainerWidth

function formattedWidth_GetField someText, someField, someTextStyle
     lock screen
     put the htmlText of someField into oHtmlText
     set the text of someField to someText
     if someTextStyle is not empty then
         set the textStyle of char 1 to -1 of someField to someTextStyle
     end if
     put the formattedWidth of someField into someWidth
     set the htmlText of someField to oHtmlText
     unlock screen
     return someWidth
end formattedWidth_GetField

function width_RealFormatted someObject
     put the formattedWidth of someObject into someWidth
     if the showBorder of someObject is true then
         add (2 * the borderWidth of someObject) to someWidth
     end if
     return someWidth
end width_RealFormatted

function height_RealFormatted someObject
     put the formattedHeight of someObject into someHeight
     if the showBorder of someObject is true then
         add (2 * the borderHeight of someObject) to someHeight
     end if
     return someHeight
end height_RealFormatted


--> Margins
-
function addMargin someMargins, someRect
     margin_Normalise someMargin, left_Margin, top_Margin,  
right_Margin, bottom_Margin
     subtract left_Margin from item 1 of someRect
     subtract top_Margin from item 2 of someRect
     add right_Margin to item 3 of someRect
     add bottom_Margin to item 4 of someRect
     return someRect
end addMargin

function subtractMargin someMargin, someRect
     margin_Normalise someMargin, left_Margin, top_Margin,  
right_Margin, bottom_Margin
     add left_Margin to item 1 of someRect
     add top_Margin to item 2 of someRect
     subtract right_Margin from item 3 of someRect
     subtract bottom_Margin from item 4 of someRect
     return someRect
end subtractMargin

on margin_Normalise @someMargin, @left_Margin, @top_Margin,  
@right_Margin, @bottom_Margin
     if the number of items of someMargin < 4 then
         put item 1 of someMargin into defaultMargin
         put defaultMargin into left_Margin

         put item 2 of someMargin into actualMargin
         if actualMargin is empty then
             put defaultMargin into top_Margin
         else
             put actualMargin into top_Margin
         end if

         put item 3 of someMargin into actualMargin
         if actualMargin is empty then
             put defaultMargin into right_Margin
         else
             put actualMargin into right_Margin
         end if

         put item 4 of someMargin into actualMargin
         if actualMargin is empty then
             put defaultMargin into bottom_Margin
         else
             put actualMargin into bottom_Margin
         end if
     else
         put item 1 of someMargin into left_Margin
         put item 2 of someMargin into top_Margin
         put item 3 of someMargin into right_Margin
         put item 4 of someMargin into bottom_Margin
     end if
     put left_Margin,top_Margin,right_Margin,bottom_Margin into  
someMargin
end margin_Normalise


--> Tab Menus
-
function menu_TabInnerGroupRect tabButton, someMargin
     if someMargin is empty then put 16 into someMargin
     put the rect of tabButton into someRect
     put subtractMargin(someMargin, someRect) into innerRect
     put the textHeight of tabButton into someHeight
     add someHeight to item 2 of innerRect

     return innerRect
end menu_TabInnerGroupRect



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Nov 21 14:57:34 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:57:34 -0500
Subject: What I understand 'Open Source' to mean
Message-ID: <web-339450012@mail.maclaunch.com>

I understand 'Open Source' to mean that the software, once
I have obtained it - whether by paying money or FREE, can
be altered, improved, messed-up, messed around by me and
redistributed ( usually without charge) without fear of any
legal penalties.

HOWEVER, I'm a small time chap in a small time country in
Eastern Europe . . .

I would like to find out what the "Princes of the Church"
understand by 'Open Source'; because until a consensus is
established as to what 'Open Source' means the present
discussion is probably a bit pointless, with all parties
entrenched in their respective corners baring their fangs.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Nov 21 15:07:31 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:07:31 +0100
Subject: Filter Command
In-Reply-To: <C3104EBF-C064-4D12-83DD-9B2C4BB1D59A@videotron.ca>
References: <C3104EBF-C064-4D12-83DD-9B2C4BB1D59A@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <83A6E776-2276-4926-B35F-E23D3B6975DB@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Greg,

Just try something like:
Filter it with "*" & companyName
Assuming there are not other items after the company name...
If there are some: Filter it with "*" & companyName & "*"
"*" means only any string (including tabs).

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 21 nov. 05 ? 20:29, Gregory Lypny a ?crit :

> Hello Everyone,
>
> 	I'm having a bit of trouble with the Filter command giving me  
> false positives.  I'm picking off company names in a file  
> containing news headlines.  The headlines file has one headline per  
> line, and each line is tab delimited, where the first item is a  
> unique story number and the second is the actual headline.  It  
> looks something like this:
>
> 1	tab	First headline text
> 2	tab	Second headline text
> 3	tab	Third headline text
> ...
>
> My search command is of the form
>
> 	    filter it with "*" & tab & "*" & companyName & "*"
>
> 	This seems to works fine for all my companies except for "TSE 100  
> Index Participation Fund Units".  I'm getting a lot of hits that  
> contain "TSE" (Toronto Stock Exchange) in the headline but not the  
> rest of the name.  This does not happen with other long names or  
> names that have a common proper noun (e.g., Canada Bread gives me  
> four hits all mentioning Canada Bread and none mentioning Canada or  
> Bread alone).
>
> 	Any thoughts?
>
> 		Regards,
>
> 			Greg

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From alex at tweedly.net  Mon Nov 21 15:31:53 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 20:31:53 +0000
Subject: Filter Command
In-Reply-To: <C3104EBF-C064-4D12-83DD-9B2C4BB1D59A@videotron.ca>
References: <C3104EBF-C064-4D12-83DD-9B2C4BB1D59A@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <43822EB9.1010302@tweedly.net>

Gregory Lypny wrote:

> Hello Everyone,
>
>     I'm having a bit of trouble with the Filter command giving me 
> false  positives.  I'm picking off company names in a file containing 
> news  headlines.  The headlines file has one headline per line, and 
> each  line is tab delimited, where the first item is a unique story 
> number  and the second is the actual headline.  It looks something 
> like this:
>
> 1    tab    First headline text
> 2    tab    Second headline text
> 3    tab    Third headline text
> ...
>
> My search command is of the form
>
>         filter it with "*" & tab & "*" & companyName & "*"
>
>     This seems to works fine for all my companies except for "TSE 100  
> Index Participation Fund Units".  I'm getting a lot of hits that  
> contain "TSE" (Toronto Stock Exchange) in the headline but not the  
> rest of the name.  This does not happen with other long names or  
> names that have a common proper noun (e.g., Canada Bread gives me  
> four hits all mentioning Canada Bread and none mentioning Canada or  
> Bread alone).
>
>     Any thoughts?
>
No very good ones ....

Can you give us some idea of the bigger context - e.g. is companyName 
passed as a parameter to the handler doing this ?

Any chance that " "TSE 100  Index Participation Fund Units" is actually 
"TSE<tab>100  Index Participation Fund Units" ?   (Still not clear why 
that would cause a problem - but it might, depending on the bigger context.)

I'd suggest a debug statement to check *exactly* what is in 
"companyName" at the time .... not just something like "put companyName 
& cr after msg", but
  put companyName & cr after msg
  repeat for each char c in companyName
     put c && chartonum(c) & cr after msg
  end repeat
  put "finished" && companyName & cr after msg


If feasible, send me a snippet of code and data and I'll play with it .....

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/176 - Release Date: 20/11/2005



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Nov 21 15:35:59 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:35:59 -0800
Subject: [OT] Web Services Dead? Don't Tell Amazon
In-Reply-To: <3852EFD6-99E0-4608-8DAE-93EFF7D45844@danshafer.com>
References: <3852EFD6-99E0-4608-8DAE-93EFF7D45844@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <43822FAF.2060109@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:
> During our recent thread on thin-client vs. desktop apps, several  
> people suggested that Web Services were passe, outre and otherwise  
> obsolete and deadsville.

I must have missed that post.  Aside from a few extreme positions 
advocating a false dichotomy which suggests that all things must one way 
or another, most of the posts I read simply suggested there's plenty of 
room for both, and which is best depends less on idiology than on the 
practical needs of the task at hand.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Nov 21 15:38:52 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:38:52 -0800
Subject: What I understand 'Open Source' to mean
In-Reply-To: <web-339450012@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339450012@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <4382305C.4050405@fourthworld.com>

Mathewson wrote:
> I understand 'Open Source' to mean that the software, once
> I have obtained it - whether by paying money or FREE, can
> be altered, improved, messed-up, messed around by me and
> redistributed ( usually without charge) without fear of any
> legal penalties.
> 
> HOWEVER, I'm a small time chap in a small time country in
> Eastern Europe . . .
> 
> I would like to find out what the "Princes of the Church"
> understand by 'Open Source'; because until a consensus is
> established as to what 'Open Source' means the present
> discussion is probably a bit pointless, with all parties
> entrenched in their respective corners baring their fangs.

Since Stallman and Raymond disagree, I don't expect to find conensus 
among us little people here. :)

But in terms of contracting with governments which require open source 
software, I think that leaves us out even if our part of a solution is 
open source since we, like Flash, Director, Toolbook, and xCode 
developers, rely on proprietary components to get the job done.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 21 15:38:10 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:38:10 -0800
Subject: Filter Command
In-Reply-To: <C3104EBF-C064-4D12-83DD-9B2C4BB1D59A@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <BFA77032.30C99%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

Experiment with the following:
My preferred method for this is to copy and paste into BBEdit (I am on a
Mac) and look for high/low ASCII invisibles.
This is especially true if the list is derived from a web source.

--- Alternately
--------------- start copy
put url theHeadlinesFile into headlineList
filter headlineList with "TSE" -- to get a list of only those lines
set the itemdel to tab
repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines in headlineList
   get the number of chars in (item 2 of line x of headlineList)
   put (the number of chars in it) into (item 1 of line x of headlineList)
end repeat
breakpoint
---------------- end copy
..then see if the numbers add up like you think
There could be 'hidden' characters confusing the filter command

In that case the answer would be to [if the char was (11)]
replace numtochar(11) with "" in headlineList
before doing the filter command

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 11/21/05 11:29 AM, "Gregory Lypny" <gregory.lypny at videotron.ca> wrote:

> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I'm having a bit of trouble with the Filter command giving me false
> positives.  I'm picking off company names in a file containing news
> headlines.  The headlines file has one headline per line, and each
> line is tab delimited, where the first item is a unique story number
> and the second is the actual headline.  It looks something like this:
> 
> 1 tab First headline text
> 2 tab Second headline text
> 3 tab Third headline text
> ...
> 
> My search command is of the form
> 
>    filter it with "*" & tab & "*" & companyName & "*"
> 
> This seems to works fine for all my companies except for "TSE 100
> Index Participation Fund Units".  I'm getting a lot of hits that
> contain "TSE" (Toronto Stock Exchange) in the headline but not the
> rest of the name.  This does not happen with other long names or
> names that have a common proper noun (e.g., Canada Bread gives me
> four hits all mentioning Canada Bread and none mentioning Canada or
> Bread alone).
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From robertum at brturbo.com  Mon Nov 21 15:42:26 2005
From: robertum at brturbo.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:42:26 -0200
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
Message-ID: <43823132.1030907@brturbo.com>

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:00:01, Andre Garzia wrote:
 >I think I must step in since I am the only Brazilian in the list.

You may be the only "true" Brazilian on the list, but hopefully I might 
pass as an imitation! After 30 years in Brazil they make you Brazilian 
whether you like it or not - which is my case (I've been here nearly 32 
years).

I am not qualified to discuss the history of Linux in Brazil, so I thank 
you for your insights. I just know one or two things clearly:

1. Until recently, most computing in Brazil was done on PCs, using 
Windows. MACs were always too expensive for Brazilians, and this seems 
to be a continuing trend. A shocking example is the MAC Mini that one 
other contributer mentioned: the manufacturer's recommended price is 
almost 3 times what it is in the US.

2. The normal way of acquiring software (including Windows) has always 
been by pirating. This is not because Brazilians like being "dishonest" 
(if that has any meaning at all in this context) or that they "don't 
like paying for software" as someone put it recently, but because if 
they are to accompany modern technology (as they have always done very 
well), it is the only option open to the great majority of the 
population. Brazilian salaries are insufficient for survival in a lot of 
cases. The so-called "minimum salary" in Brazil is just about sufficient 
to buy the cigarettes I smoke! (No joke.)

3. The writing that is on the wall is that nobody will get beyond 
Windows XP in this manner. Nor do I imagine that Microsoft and other 
large software producers have any intention of changing their pricing 
policies to accommodate the world's poor countries. The rich have to get 
richer and the poor have to get poorer, and that is the way of 
ultra-capitalism and the egocentric proponents of it.

My conclusion is that the adoption of Linux in Brazil is not so much an 
option as a necessity, and that it is exactly that neccessity that is 
providing the driving-force for a move to Linux. Until recently, Linux 
has been too unreliable to use to any significant degree, but that state 
of affairs is changing fast. Give it another 2 years....

Personally, I would do ANYTHING to escape the clutches of Microsoft, 
especially after the VB6 fiasco. I think that trends are not only things 
we try to evaluate in order to predict the future, but what we establish 
ourselves because we think they are the right (or perhaps only) paths to 
follow. Personally, I couldn't care less about speculation as to what 
other people may or may not decide to do. Here in Brazil, Linux is the 
only potentially happy solution to a situation which profoundly 
disagreeable.

Long live (Ubuntu and Kurumin) Linux and Runtime Revolution!




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Nov 21 15:50:00 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:50:00 -0800
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <AD497F8B-4D4A-427F-863E-E7176CE525C4@danshafer.com>
References: <web-339309330@mail.maclaunch.com>	<437E36F6.7070507@fourthworld.com>	<D81DFE65-D3EE-4C9C-A598-B57376E3E00D@openpartnership.net>	<4381F2E6.2020701@fourthworld.com>
	<AD497F8B-4D4A-427F-863E-E7176CE525C4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <438232F8.4030600@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:
> Richard....
> 
> I know you know this, but just to keep the conversation clear, "open  
> source" doesn't mean "free of charge." Not  on any level.

As Richard Stallman patiently explained it over dinner in Chinatown to 
me once, there's "free" as in "gratis" and "free" as in "freedom", and 
open source means both.

Under most open sources licenses in some circumstances you can charge 
for the object code, but the sources must still be available so the only 
difference between gratis and non-gratis is five minutes to run the make 
file.

> A lot of open source software is available for free. Some isn't  (MySQL 
> comes to mind immediately). 

Review the licenses for MySQL.  There are two.  One is proprietary, and 
carries a fee.  The other is free of charge and the source is open and 
modifiable, but only within the confines of the GPL.

So the open source version of MySQL is definitely free, in both senses 
of the word.  But proprietary use is governed by the proprietary non-GPL 
license.

> But lots and lots of programmers  make lots and lots of money *using*
> open source and *that's*  generally the requirement governments are
> placing on these projects.  IOW, they don't insist the software they
> buy be free of charge, just  built on freely distributable bases.

That may be, and there may be variances from government to government.

But the bottom line for us Rev developers is that if a customer requires 
a truly open source solution then the source must be open -- that's not 
the case with Rev, Windows, or OS X, so it rules out solutions dependent 
on any of those packages.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Nov 21 15:56:17 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:56:17 -0800
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <D17F9061-B933-42A3-9F7A-C24445D1BEF5@openpartnership.net>
References: <web-339444773@mail.maclaunch.com>	<43820FDA.8000508@hyperactivesw.com>
	<D17F9061-B933-42A3-9F7A-C24445D1BEF5@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <43823471.30408@fourthworld.com>

David Bovill wrote:
> 
> On 21 Nov 2005, at 19:20, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> 
>> Mathewson wrote:
>>
>>> Now, maybe I'm wrong, but . . .
>>> I believe that it is perfectly legal to download the
>>> Metacard IDE, download a copy of DC/RR, and then transfer
>>> the RR engine across to the Metacard IDE.
>>>
>>
>> Correct. However, note that since your copy of the IDE won't be  
>> licensed, all your scripts will be limited to ten lines.
> 
> Unless you have a Rev license

Actually, the MC IDE currently requires a separate MetaCard reg key, 
which can be obtained on request if you're currently a Rev Enterprise 
customer.  So some Rev licensees can get one, but others must upgrade.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ale870 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 15:58:46 2005
From: ale870 at gmail.com (Alessandro Manotti)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:58:46 +0100
Subject: SHA-1 algorithm in xTalk?
In-Reply-To: <693F3EE0-F513-4604-8705-3A237D8A16DD@openpartnership.net>
References: <5a823a596467f78430956469f6abb70d@backtalk.com>
	<437E8980.7030108@comcast.net>
	<56080D7B-E46E-490E-B3AF-874692EA879B@openpartnership.net>
	<f54296680511210835u5595efe6l48e6dff504944095@mail.gmail.com>
	<693F3EE0-F513-4604-8705-3A237D8A16DD@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <f54296680511211258p1205f5b9k121dec1e5469e741@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/21/05, David Bovill <david at openpartnership.net> wrote:
> The SSL libraries that RunRev uses should be able to do this - and I
> would have thought considerably faster than a native and possibly
> less secure Transcript implementation - no?
>

What do you mean when you talk about "less secure"? SHA-1 is a
function that returns a UNIQUE code based on the input. That's all.
Basically, I think RunRev should implement a function to calculate
SHA-1, like md5 digest. This function should be distributed inside the
player (no external .dll / .so required). SHA-1 should not be
implemented in transcript (my 2 cents opinion  :-)  )

Digital signature, or public/private keys are other things (they
require security).

If RunRev player implements sha-1, then in transcript one can manage
certificates, etc... but without sha-1 algorithm....

--Alessandro


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Nov 21 16:08:18 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:08:18 -0800
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <6EEAB6A1-723A-41BF-B347-055343171EF5@openpartnership.net>
References: <web-339309330@mail.maclaunch.com>	<437E36F6.7070507@fourthworld.com>	<D81DFE65-D3EE-4C9C-A598-B57376E3E00D@openpartnership.net>	<DD0ACC73-9F1D-4405-A0BC-94BF2D21DED2@conncoll.edu>	<4381EE22.1060605@fourthworld.com>	<CEB5C2EA-9EEC-41A6-8CD0-C737C76600B9@openpartnership.net>	<4381F38E.6090208@fourthworld.com>
	<6EEAB6A1-723A-41BF-B347-055343171EF5@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <43823742.6090101@fourthworld.com>

David Bovill wrote:
> On 21 Nov 2005, at 17:16, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Depends on the license requirements, doesn't it?  That is, even if  I 
>> inherit enough wealth to be able to afford the luxury of working  for 
>> free, at the end of the day the RunRev engine isn't open source  so 
>> it's not possible for me to deliver truly open materials which  rely 
>> on it.
>
> Hey i thought you had made it in the land of plenty :)

While I do donate more of my personal GDP to non-profits than most 
nations (10% by company policy), I haven't yet become wealthy enough to 
do so full-time.  That's the goal but I'm not there yet, so I still 
charge for my products and most of my custom development.

> More seriously this is not all-or-nothing. It is entirely possible
> to deliver open source solutions in Rev (what is the license for
> the Metacard IDE  again?).

The MC IDE is governed under the X11 license, included in full in the 
Licensing window accessible from About, with appropriate reverences to 
the proprietary license for the Rev engine needed to run it.

> Also it is possible to have mixed strategies based on open file  formats 
> - so you can both release all the Rev code under an  appropriate OSI 
> certified open license and allow full  interoperability with other open 
> source code.
> 
> The issue here is not that it is "not possible" to do this, but that  in 
> order to win these arguments in these contract negotiations it  would 
> really help if RunRev had a decent open source strategy that  they 
> marketed - this should be built upon Revolutions strengths in  *nix 
> platform as a rapid application development tool.
> 
> Saying that this is not possible is not only untrue but damaging (for  
> some of us at least).

The only thing "damaging" here is a lack of clarity with regard to these 
purchasing requirements, of which there are many varieties.  I don't 
think it would be practical to attempt to list all requirements of all 
government agencies here.

Yes, of course there are many partially-open projects, and as per the 
LGPL, X11, and other liberal licenses there's nothing stopping any Rev 
developer from making something that's partially open source.

But all Rev-based work requires a proprietary engine to run it, which is 
not open, not end-user modifiable, and does not meet any definition of 
open source.  The Rev license is pretty clear about its terms; if the 
difficulty is in finding an open source message in there then the 
difficulty is in the search rather than what's being searched.

I never claimed that partially-open projects could not be made with Rev.
All I said is that if a purchaser requires a FULLY OPEN solution, by 
definition that cannot include Rev (or for that matter Windows, OS X, or 
any other non-open parts).

Partially-open solutions are a separate matter, and the acceptability of 
partially-open solutions for a specific purchasing agent will depend on 
that purchasing agent's requirements.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Nov 21 16:03:22 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:03:22 -0500
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
Message-ID: <web-339452003@mail.maclaunch.com>

Bob Warren's description of the Brazilian situation almost
exactly mirrors that of Bulgaria:

"Pirate" Windows everywhere: not because Bulgarians are
crooks or lack morals (well, there are a few dubious
characters lurking here and there; mainly in the
government), but shear necessity caused by the undesirable
fact that Microsoft is the king of the hill and the average
Bulgarian is rather worried about how to buy a decent pair
of shoes for his kid rather than worry about the licence
fee for the OS or 'Office'.

Sooner or later the European Union will absorb Bulgaria,
and the happy software police will start poking their noses
into every little 2-bit company and carting off their PCs
with a Windows OS on it. Some forward thinking folk have
paid me to install Ubuntu onto their PCs  I charge about
the same as an avrage family's weekly shopping - i.e. about
5% of the price of Licensed Windows.

As I mentioned in my previous posting about my political
stance: surely it is only right and fair if we expect
everybody in the world to stand on their own 2 feet and not
sponge off others, or poor countries sponge off richer ones
(whether by choice or necessity) that they start from a
level playing field. PCs running FREE (as in, you only pay
the IT-bloke to install the stuff) software flattens the
playing field quite effectively.

Now, there will always be people, mainly in the richer
countries, who prefer to use Mac or Win (or RISC OS -
sorry, my hobby horse), and will pay both for their OS and
for their licensed copies of RR or what-have-you. As
individuals and nations elsewhere become richer they may
decide to change over to Commercial software alternatives.

If (for instance) all the kids in Uganda learn to program
using RR on Ubuntu, then when and if they transfer to Win
or Mac they will automatically seek out Win/Mac versions of
RR.

At present nobody is making any money out of software sales
in Bulgaria - because the Bulgarians are helping themselves
- so nobody will lose anyhting if they are encouraged to
opt for open source; and, just possibly, that may
eventually lead them to pay money for software they have
invested their time in in mastering.

I believe that it would, ultimately, be in RR's interest to
release a FREE (as in totally free) version of RR for Linux
- possibly modified from current Linux RR versions so that
it cannot be used to manufacture standalones for commercial
platforms.

sincerely, Richmond
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Nov 21 16:12:29 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:12:29 -0800
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <web-339452003@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339452003@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <4382383D.70703@fourthworld.com>

Mathewson wrote:
> PCs running FREE (as in, you only pay
> the IT-bloke to install the stuff) software flattens the
> playing field quite effectively.

A usable installer would level the playing field even more.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com



From pierre.bernaert at mac.com  Mon Nov 21 16:27:01 2005
From: pierre.bernaert at mac.com (Pierre Bernaert)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:27:01 +0100
Subject: Message in an unprotected field...
In-Reply-To: <4382130D.9090502@harbourhost.co.uk>
References: <C1A35BEA-4B4C-45EE-ABD1-06FFF8040703@mac.com>
	<4382130D.9090502@harbourhost.co.uk>
Message-ID: <650D65D6-C51A-4618-8914-7F6B802343CA@mac.com>

Many Thanks for your Help,

I tried this:

On SelectionChanged
   Put the selectedChunk
end SelectionChanged

which gave what I was looking for :  where the selection point is  
when changed.


Le 21 nov. 05 ? 19:33, Martin Baxter a ?crit :

> Pierre Bernaert wrote:
>
>> Clicking somewhere into it gives an "Openfield" message which  
>> allow  me to get the "ClickChunk" and so the line, the item, the  
>> word and  the select position. That's fine.
>> If without going outside the field I click somewhere else it  
>> seems  that no message is sent and I can't get the new "Select"  
>> position as,  unless I miss something,  no message is sent to   
>> tell me that the  user changes is mind.
>> I'm curious to know if somebody has a solution or the name of a   
>> message I missed.
>> Thank you for helping me
>>
>
> Possibly the selectionchanged message is what you are looking for?
>
> Martin Baxter
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Nov 21 16:21:27 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:21:27 -0500
Subject: Usable installers ?
Message-ID: <web-339453415@mail.maclaunch.com>

Gosh, Richard Gaskin has obviously got the 'rough end' of
Linux.

Awfully sorry Richard,

But have just installed Ubuntu 5.10 i386 on 4 fairly crappy
old Pentium 3s: it was unbelievably easy . . . Frankly my
knowledge of Linux would leave space on a US 1 cent coin!

about 5 years ago I tried to install various forms of Linux
on various stray PCs at the UAE University in the United
Arab Emirates - and rapidly reached the conclusion that
Linux was strictly for masochistic computery types - I
never got the windowing system to work, nor, consequently,
a usable GUI - reminded me of all those UNIX terminal
sessions in the basement at the University of Durham 22
years ago when I crashed a whole mainframe trying to run a
concordancing program I had written in PASCAL processing
the English translation of Leibniz's 'monadologie'!

Anyway, nowadays the average Linux distro seems no more
difficult to install than Microsoft Windows or Mac OS X.

sincerely, Richmond
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com  Mon Nov 21 16:43:13 2005
From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:43:13 -0800
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <43823742.6090101@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20051121214317.9C4977F056@spatula.dreamhost.com>

> I never claimed that partially-open projects could not be 
> made with Rev.
> All I said is that if a purchaser requires a FULLY OPEN 
> solution, by definition that cannot include Rev (or for that 
> matter Windows, OS X, or any other non-open parts).
> 
> Partially-open solutions are a separate matter, and the 
> acceptability of partially-open solutions for a specific 
> purchasing agent will depend on that purchasing agent's requirements.

Before Microsoft became so big, they had to put their source code in escrow
to get very big accounts to buy; those big accounts required this because
they didn't want to have a necessary product disappear in a financial
crisis. Same with government bodies (and MS still does this). There's
nothing wrong with it.

Id like to point out here Richard's emphasis of *requirements* vs need/want.
What governments and big institutions need/want/require, they can get
usually by direct negotiation because of the financial value to the
publisher of doing so.

My point is, the GPL isnt a necessity for anyone -- it is a "want" driven by
near religious fervor.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software, Inc

Joining Worlds of Information

Deploy True Client-Server Database Solutions
Royalty Free with Valentina Developer Network
http://www.paradigmasoft.com





From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Nov 21 16:37:49 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:37:49 -0500
Subject: Usable Installers ?
Message-ID: <web-339454263@mail.maclaunch.com>

While I am on the topic of installers I thought I would
point out that when I installed RR for Linux it was
extremely straightforward,

BUT,

it did NOT install where the documentation said that it
would.

sincerely, Richmond

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From harvey.toyama at qlogic.com  Mon Nov 21 17:04:36 2005
From: harvey.toyama at qlogic.com (Harvey Toyama)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:04:36 -0800
Subject: combine behavior
Message-ID: <F9DA3EA8D8D9C240B019D6CFADC4B5F801B268E9@AVEXCH02.qlogic.org>

Hi Jan,
Thanks. Your solutions work. I wish a numeric sort were a switch enabled
behavior for "combine", though.

-- Harvey
-- 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Jan
Schenkel
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 11:07 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: combine behavior

--- Harvey Toyama <harvey.toyama at qlogic.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm using the split and combine to manipulate
> database records. I notice
> that the documentation says that the order of the
> elements is based on
> an internal order. I require a known order for the
> INSERT and UPDATE
> commands to line up correctly. How can I know the
> order in which my
> elements will recombine from an array? It would seem
> ideal if I could
> set the index to be numeric and to use a binary
> sort.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> -- Harvey
> 

Hi Harvey,

You are correct: combine will place them in an
internal order (which happens to be the hash-value of
the keys of the array).

There are two options: either you roll your own
combine command, or you use the sort command after
combining the array, to get it in the order you want.

Option 1:
--
put the keys of tDataArray into tKeys
sort tKeys numeric             ## or some other sort
repeat for each line tKey in tKeys
  put tkey & return after tSortedData
end repeat
delete char -1 of tSortedData  ## remove trailing
return
--

Option 2:
--
combine tDataArray using return and tab
sort tDaatArray numeric by item 1 of each
--

Of course, you'll have to adapt the above a bit to
suit the structure of the data in your array.

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.


Quartam - Tools for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same
time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
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Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
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From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Nov 21 17:04:36 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:04:36 -0600
Subject: Usable installers ?
In-Reply-To: <web-339453415@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <BFA7A094.302FB%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/21/05 3:21 PM, "Mathewson" <richmond at mail.maclaunch.com> wrote:

> Gosh, Richard Gaskin has obviously got the 'rough end' of
> Linux.

No, I think Richard was talking about installers for other programs (not for
installing Linux) and the lack of a consistent way of installing 3rd party
programs on various versions of Linux. I'm sure the *Linux* installers are
easy...

:-)


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Nov 21 17:17:17 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:17:17 -0800
Subject: Usable installers ?
In-Reply-To: <BFA7A094.302FB%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BFA7A094.302FB%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <4382476D.5040904@fourthworld.com>

Ken Ray wrote:
> On 11/21/05 3:21 PM, "Mathewson" <richmond at mail.maclaunch.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Gosh, Richard Gaskin has obviously got the 'rough end' of
>>Linux.
> 
> 
> No, I think Richard was talking about installers for other programs (not for
> installing Linux) and the lack of a consistent way of installing 3rd party
> programs on various versions of Linux. I'm sure the *Linux* installers are
> easy...

While I do find it needlessly annoying that each window manager has its 
own distinct mechanisms for basic things like file and icon 
associations, in this case I was referring to the need for an admin to 
install the OS.  If the OS installer were more usable end-users could 
confidently do it themselves.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Nov 21 17:18:51 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:18:51 -0800
Subject: Usable installers ?
In-Reply-To: <BFA7A094.302FB%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BFA7A094.302FB%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <A69BF63A-D4DA-4B1E-B507-4552540E85AA@danshafer.com>

At least one "brand" of Linux does a wonderful job of facilitating  
the download and installation of applications and development  
software for Linux. Linspire has a CNR - Click-N-Run technology that  
even I can use with great ease.

:-D

On Nov 21, 2005, at 2:04 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

> On 11/21/05 3:21 PM, "Mathewson" <richmond at mail.maclaunch.com> wrote:
>
>> Gosh, Richard Gaskin has obviously got the 'rough end' of
>> Linux.
>
> No, I think Richard was talking about installers for other programs  
> (not for
> installing Linux) and the lack of a consistent way of installing  
> 3rd party
> programs on various versions of Linux. I'm sure the *Linux*  
> installers are
> easy...
>
> :-)
>
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From gregory.lypny at videotron.ca  Mon Nov 21 17:46:55 2005
From: gregory.lypny at videotron.ca (Gregory Lypny)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:46:55 -0500
Subject: Filter Command
In-Reply-To: <20051121212919.553548253A8@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051121212919.553548253A8@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <A5FFEC53-AF0C-4E27-A6D6-C0FC28C8365C@videotron.ca>

Thanks Eric, Alex and Jim,

	I'm going to give your debugging suggestion a shot.

		Greg



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Nov 21 18:09:03 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:09:03 -0500
Subject: Usable installers ?
Message-ID: <web-339456858@mail.maclaunch.com>

The installation system for Linspire is much more
consistent than that for most other types of Linux.

Linspire is a commercial Linux variant - and, Yes, Richard
Gaskin, you do get what you pay for!

However that was not my point; my point was that some
people cannot pay for anything at all, and one of the ways
of offering them the leverage to get themselves into a
position where they can pay for something is to get them
started with a Free OS.

My point about some of the Free OS users eventually
migrating to something commercial (and probably more
consistent and hence easier to use) is surely supported by
the fact that if you do pay you get "more bang for your
buck".

sincerely, Richmond
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Nov 21 18:20:21 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:20:21 -0800
Subject: Usable installers ?
In-Reply-To: <web-339456858@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339456858@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <43825635.4000507@fourthworld.com>

Mathewson wrote:
> The installation system for Linspire is much more
> consistent than that for most other types of Linux.
> 
> Linspire is a commercial Linux variant - and, Yes, Richard
> Gaskin, you do get what you pay for!

I was sold on Linspire years ago:  I have it installed on two systems. 
IMHO, best consumer Linux OS on the market.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Mon Nov 21 18:22:48 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:22:48 -0500
Subject: Macedonia, Ubuntu, RR and a few rude words about Visual Basic
Message-ID: <web-339457174@mail.maclaunch.com>

Here's one good reason for a FREE Linux version of RR to be
readily available:

Macedonia is going over to Ubuntu (
http://www.metamorphosis.org.mk/eng_vesti_detal.asp?id=291
),

and, presumably, some poor students are going to have to
learn programming skills

xTalk / Transcript is a very powerful yet gentle
introduction (and not only that) to programming

I recently completed an MSc in Computers and IT at the
"University" of Abertay, Dundee - apart from the fact that
I learnt nothing more than what I could have learnt with a
half-dozen textbooks and a month in the country - I was
'introduced' to programming through the awful and retro
Visual Basic.

I showed some of the students stuff I had popped together
in under a tenth of the time in RR/MC and managed to
successfully antagonise all the lecturers (no, surely
not?).

South Africa (not quite the same siza as Macedonia) is also
going that way.

The Universities should be humming with RR on Linux: after
all the theory is that the University graduates will be the
ones with the money to spend.

sincerely, Richmond
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
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From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Mon Nov 21 18:30:02 2005
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 00:30:02 +0100
Subject: Near completion of Color Pattern Toolkit: IDE, engine,
 and font problems (part 1)
Message-ID: <4382587A.9080407@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

While working on the public release of the Pattern Toolkit, by means of  
which the images of the pattern galleries "Pattern Art" and "Pattern Art 
Two" were created (see respective links on website 
<http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>), I encountered some new and revisited 
older problems that - at least to some degree - could be of general 
interest to the Rev community.

1. IDE aspects:

(For the latest version, I refer to Metacard 2.6.6 and Revolution 2.6.1, 
both with engine versions buildnumber 152.)

When I began experimenting with colors and color patterns I used fields 
or graphics as color units arranged in matrices of 45 x 60, 60 x 80, and 
60 x 90. As the resolution for resulting images was far too grainy I 
finally switched to a 120 x 160 matrix, which actually is the basis for 
the "Pattern Art" galleries on my website.
For various reasons - one among them (but *not* the only and most 
decisive one) because of sticking to old habits - I am inclined to still 
prefer the Metacard IDE over the Rev IDE.

Experimenting with matrices up to a 60 X 90 resolution worked smoothly 
in the MC IDE, whereas the Rev IDE had tremendous speed problems and 
problems of displaying controls and scripts in the application browser 
and property inspectors. This lead to my Bugzilla entries 2019 and 2217.

Bugzilla 2019 describes the fact that the Revolution IDE was indeed 
unable to handle stacks with more than about 2000 fields. In such a case 
the Rev IDE simply "froze". Bugzilla 2217 is about the inability of the 
Rev IDE to produce standalones from such stacks. Attached to the bug 
reports is my "RevTestStack" which can also be downloaded and inspected 
from my website <http://www.sanke.org/Software/RevTestStacks.zip> or 
from <www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>, page "Tools and Samples for 
Developments" with a commentary.

The speed problems of the Rev IDE fortunately have been resolved with 
Rev version 2.5.1 - due to the continued efforts of the Rev team to 
improve their new IDE - whereas the inability to produce a standalone 
from my 3300-fields test stack remains to the present day. See the 
commentaries of Bugzilla 2217. No problem however to produce a 
standalone from this stack in the Metacard IDE: It takes a fraction of a 
second to achieve this.

The present "field" version of the 120 x 160 matrix still works with the 
Metacard IDE as with the lower-resolution versions before, but at a 
considerably slower speed. As an example: Storing the roughly 58.000 
data items (19200 color units containing 3 color values each) in an 
two-dimensional array and custom property takes 55 seconds (on a Windows 
XP computer with 2 GHz and 1 GB Ram). Retrieving these data and 
restoring an image takes about the same time.
Such a speed however is an unsufficient working basis, as the many 
possibilities of color transformations of the toolkit usually require a 
number of repetitive sequences that individually and combined can take 
very much longer - a speed that is therefore inedaquate.

The latest Rev IDE (2.6.1) fails here more and completely: It lets you 
open the stack - takes about 30 seconds before the stack appears - but 
then you have to wait at least for two or three minutes before any 
action in the IDE is possible. Especially the MenuBar hardly responds 
and only after long waits between individual actions, which means the 
Rev IDE is totally inedaquate to handle such a stack.-

My present version of the toolkit relies on a 120 x 160 "char" matrix of 
a *single* field and uses the backcolor property of the 19800 chars. 
This implies the advantage that the stack has about 20.000 controls less 
than in the field version, but introduces at least one new problem about 
which I will report in my next post.

Storing and retrieving the 58.000 color values is now down to less than 
one second, which constitutes a workable basis for the "color pattern 
toolkit".
This speed is identical for both the Metacard and Rev IDE. However, - as 
before - it is impossible to build a standalone in the Rev IDE.-

See my next post in a day or two for the engine and font problems.

Regards,

Wilhelm Sanke, Prof.
Education and Educational Technology
University of Kassel, Germany
<http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>




From jhurley at infostations.com  Mon Nov 21 19:32:07 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:32:07 -0800
Subject: Difference between Step over and Run
In-Reply-To: <20051121171823.3936A825520@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051121171823.3936A825520@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230900bfa80ecd1015@[69.85.136.225]>

>I have noticed in the debugger that there is quite a difference in
>time of execution between
>
>     Step over
>
>and
>
>     Run
>
>even when Run takes me to the very next line of code--a line which is
>also a break point.
>
>When the handler to be Stepped over is complex, the time to execute
>Step over can be prohibitive. In such cases I set a break point at
>the next line and Run to the next line. This is VERY much faster.
>
>Is this a bug? Wouldn't it be better if RR executed Step over as if
>it were a Run to the next line of code? Does the "Step over" do
>something other than "Run" to the next line when that next line is a
>breakpoint?
>
>Jim
>


I knew it would come to this some day. Here I am responding to my own 
message. (I don't own a cell phone, but I appreciate them 
nevertheless. I can hold my hand to my ear and talk to my imaginary 
friends without attracting undue attention.)

Here is an example of the problem I have with the debugger. The 
following handlers are in a button script:

on mouseUp
   lock screen
   doWindowWork--There is a break point marker at this line.
   beep--There is also a break point marker at this line.
end mouseUp

on doWindowWork
   put the ticks into tStartTime
   put 1 into field 1
   repeat 100
     add 1 to field 1
   end repeat
   put cr & the Ticks - tStartTime after msg box
end doWindowWork



When I run MouseUp and Step over the line "doWindowWord" in the 
debugger, it take 1100 ticks to get to the next line, "beep"

When I hit "Run" at dowindowWork it takes 10 ticks to run to the next 
line, "beep"

Now it gets really weird. If you comment out the "lock screen" line 
it takes only  30 ticks to step over the doWindowWork line. The 
doWindowWork is 30 fold faster if the screen is not locked. (This 
applies only to scripts run in the degugger.)

Moral: Even though the screen is locked by script, it is not locked 
when running the debugger, UNLESS you Run to the next line. And it 
will run though the window work much faster if you  unlock the window.

Unless someone recognizes this as a known bug in the debugger, I will 
submit it.

You  can try  your luck at:

In the message box:

     go stack url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/WeirdDebugger.rev"

(Be sure to set break point markers at the indicated lines.)


Jim


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Mon Nov 21 22:37:01 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 19:37:01 -0800
Subject: [OT] Security Goes Visual
Message-ID: <BFA7D25D.25949%scott@tactilemedia.com>

The recent thread regarding "thinking graphically" reminded of a recent
update my bank made to enhance protection for online banking customers: they
added a visual aspect to the login process.

When logging into your account, you must now choose an image from a library
containing hundreds (thousands?) of images, and related word or phrase that
you are to be presented with every time you log in.  Presumably this step
was taken to thwart phishing attempts since it's pretty difficult, if not
impossible, to replicate the login process (the image and login word/phrase
are stored on the server).

We'll have to see how effective this technique is in the long run.  But as a
designer, I find this development to be very interesting and wonder if the
same safeguards will eventually be be applied to other situations requiring
secure login/registration, including software.  Pretty soon we'll have to
start keeping track of all our visual passwords, either in an image
database, or in a descriptive text version of the same.

Something to think about...

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 22:42:36 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 13:42:36 +1000
Subject: revCommon library not part of app
In-Reply-To: <OFDC25F75C.30906D10-ON852570C0.000BE975@sealedair.com>
References: <OFDC25F75C.30906D10-ON852570C0.000BE975@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511211942s7c3d514cy1174961cabf627cb@mail.gmail.com>

> > I have a weird problem at the moment. I have an app that works
> > perfectly in the IDE, but fails when built. After many tests, I found
> > that the scripts just stopped running when they encountered either
> > revChangeWindowSize or revMacFromUnixPath. Both these commands are
> > part of the revCommon library, but it seems that the library is not
> > being compiled into my app.
> >
> > Does anyone know how I can check the existance of this library in my
> > app? The docs mention a hidden group, so I guess I could add a test
> > button that listed all the groups.
> >
> > Does anyone know what I could be doing that is stopping the library
> > coming in, or have any suggestions about what to try next? The
> > standalone settings don't allow you to select the common library
> > specifically, so I guess it is supposed to be in every app.
> >
> > BTW, this app has been under construction for some time now and this
> > has never been a problem until now, although these commands have been
> > used all along. I have tried a fresh insallation of Rev just in case I
> > had messed up the library somehow, but that had no effect.
> >
> > TIA,
> > Sarah
>
> Hi Sarah,
>
> I recently had a similar problem in 2.6.1 where setting the
> systemFileSelector to false "used to" include a unix-style file selector
> dialog in the build. I ended up having to build my standalone with 2.5.1
> in order for this to work. I think these are bugs in 2.6.1 where critical
> "used" libraries/stacks are somehow being ommitted during the build
> process. I liked the older versions where you could select each component
> that you wanted to include into the build.
>

Thanks for the tip Roger. I made a very simple stack that just checked
for the existence of and groups and had a button that used one of the
common library commands. It worked fine when built using 2.6.1, so it
must be something else in my stack that is causing the problems. Maybe
it's because the stack is password-protected.

I'll keep testing and see if I can come up with an exact cause.

Cheers,
Sarah


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Nov 22 00:01:18 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 23:01:18 -0600
Subject: Difference between Step over and Run
In-Reply-To: <p06230900bfa80ecd1015@[69.85.136.225]>
References: <20051121171823.3936A825520@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230900bfa80ecd1015@[69.85.136.225]>
Message-ID: <4382A61E.4070308@hyperactivesw.com>

Jim Hurley wrote:
>> I have noticed in the debugger that there is quite a difference in
>> time of execution between
>>
>>     Step over
>>
>> and
>>
>>     Run

I think this is because of the traceDelay. When you are debugging, every 
step includes a pause equivalent to the traceDelay setting. When you 
"run", the engine goes back to full speed.

<snip stuff>

> Moral: Even though the screen is locked by script, it is not locked when 
> running the debugger, UNLESS you Run to the next line. And it will run 
> though the window work much faster if you  unlock the window.
> 
> Unless someone recognizes this as a known bug in the debugger, I will 
> submit it.

I believe this behavior is intentional. The assumption is that during 
debugging you always want to see what is happening. There have been 
innumerable instances where I was happy it worked that way, because I 
could see the screen change during debugging without altering my code 
temporarily.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Nov 22 00:59:00 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 06:59:00 +0100
Subject: [OT] Security Goes Visual
In-Reply-To: <BFA7D25D.25949%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <20051122051847.4D560824F76@mail.runrev.com>

Scott

Most of those changes are made to work against keyloggers, and
bots...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/18/keylogger_growth_survey/

cheers
Xavier 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Scott Rossi
> Sent: Tuesday, 22 November, 2005 04:37
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: [OT] Security Goes Visual
> 
> The recent thread regarding "thinking graphically" reminded 
> of a recent update my bank made to enhance protection for 
> online banking customers: they added a visual aspect to the 
> login process.
> 
> When logging into your account, you must now choose an image 
> from a library containing hundreds (thousands?) of images, 
> and related word or phrase that you are to be presented with 
> every time you log in.  Presumably this step was taken to 
> thwart phishing attempts since it's pretty difficult, if not 
> impossible, to replicate the login process (the image and 
> login word/phrase are stored on the server).
> 
> We'll have to see how effective this technique is in the long 
> run.  But as a designer, I find this development to be very 
> interesting and wonder if the same safeguards will eventually 
> be be applied to other situations requiring secure 
> login/registration, including software.  Pretty soon we'll 
> have to start keeping track of all our visual passwords, 
> either in an image database, or in a descriptive text version 
> of the same.
> 
> Something to think about...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Nov 22 01:55:29 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:55:29 -0800
Subject: group syntax question
Message-ID: <6239863560.20051121225529@ahsoftware.net>

All-

Is there an easier way to get the label of the selected radio button
in a group? I've got several occurrences where I've got something like
the following ugly syntax. It seems like there should be something
more intuitive, but I can't seem to come up with it.

switch the label of button (the hilitedButton of group "gpFilter") of group "gpFilter"
  case "the label of radio button 1"
    break
  ...etc.
end switch

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Nov 22 01:59:07 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:59:07 -0800
Subject: group syntax question
In-Reply-To: <6239863560.20051121225529@ahsoftware.net>
References: <6239863560.20051121225529@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <4382C1BB.6050304@fourthworld.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:
> All-
> 
> Is there an easier way to get the label of the selected radio button
> in a group? I've got several occurrences where I've got something like
> the following ugly syntax. It seems like there should be something
> more intuitive, but I can't seem to come up with it.
> 
> switch the label of button (the hilitedButton of group "gpFilter") of group "gpFilter"
>   case "the label of radio button 1"
>     break
>   ...etc.
> end switch

One approach could be to assign each button a uAction property, which 
contains the name of a handler to be called when it's selected.

So rather than the above you could write something like:

do (the uAction of the hilitedbutton of grp "gpFilter")

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  __________________________________________________
  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Tue Nov 22 02:06:51 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 08:06:51 +0100
Subject: group syntax question
In-Reply-To: <4382C1BB.6050304@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <OFCE1B0B06.5A0718D7-ONC12570C1.0026C0A7-C12570C1.002714EB@deutsche-boerse.com>

Mark!

That's funny! The Active search stack uses that same function in the 
search button! ;)
BTW, did you get my modified stack?

Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 22/11/2005 07:59:07:

> Mark Wieder wrote:
> > All-
> > 
> > Is there an easier way to get the label of the selected radio button
> > in a group? I've got several occurrences where I've got something like
> > the following ugly syntax. It seems like there should be something
> > more intuitive, but I can't seem to come up with it.
> > 
> > switch the label of button (the hilitedButton of group "gpFilter")
> of group "gpFilter"
> >   case "the label of radio button 1"
> >     break
> >   ...etc.
> > end switch
> 
> One approach could be to assign each button a uAction property, which 
> contains the name of a handler to be called when it's selected.
> 
> So rather than the above you could write something like:
> 
> do (the uAction of the hilitedbutton of grp "gpFilter")
> 
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Media Corporation
>   __________________________________________________
>   Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev



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From davis.phil at comcast.net  Tue Nov 22 02:07:40 2005
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 23:07:40 -0800
Subject: group syntax question
In-Reply-To: <6239863560.20051121225529@ahsoftware.net>
References: <6239863560.20051121225529@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <4382C3BC.9050202@comcast.net>

Hi Mark,

You could add a line of code like the following in the group script:

on mouseUp
   set the uTargetLabel of me to the label of the target
end mouseUp

That would reduce the ugliness a little:

   switch (the uTargetLabel of grp "gpFilter")
   etc.

Just an idea...

Phil Davis


Mark Wieder wrote:
> All-
> 
> Is there an easier way to get the label of the selected radio button
> in a group? I've got several occurrences where I've got something like
> the following ugly syntax. It seems like there should be something
> more intuitive, but I can't seem to come up with it.
> 
> switch the label of button (the hilitedButton of group "gpFilter") of group "gpFilter"
>   case "the label of radio button 1"
>     break
>   ...etc.
> end switch
> 



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Tue Nov 22 02:10:00 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 23:10:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: You Either Think Graphically or You Don't
In-Reply-To: <3B8BE226-BEEB-48B7-80C8-3CFEB4063E72@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511212308290.27132-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Dan,

For the record,

And we agree again!  (are pigs taking to space everywhere? Take a look
out your windows...)

:-)

Judy

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Every year I receive hundreds of emails and correspondence from
> people who seek advice about starting or continuing their writing
> careers. I tell them all the same thing. "Don't write unless you
> cannot not write." I'd say the same goes for coding. Many people who
> say they love writing actually love having written; they like the
> result, but not the process. Same is true for coding. Same, I
> suspect, is true of artists.



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Tue Nov 22 02:13:07 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 23:13:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [OT] Security Goes Visual
In-Reply-To: <BFA7D25D.25949%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511212312010.27132-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Yikes.... and people already have problems with maintaining hopefully
unique logins/passwords for every blasted computer thingy they do...

Judy

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Pretty soon we'll have to
> start keeping track of all our visual passwords, either in an image
> database, or in a descriptive text version of the same.
>
> Something to think about...
>

Indeed.




From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Nov 22 02:14:36 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 08:14:36 +0100
Subject: group syntax question
In-Reply-To: <6239863560.20051121225529@ahsoftware.net>
References: <6239863560.20051121225529@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <C01CBC4E-BAFD-42E1-9749-F02C898205A8@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Mark,

Afraid not with this method...
More redeable like this?

put the label of btn ID (the hilitedButtonID of grp "gpFilter") into  
tCurBtnLabel
switch tCurBtnLabel

Le 22 nov. 05 ? 07:55, Mark Wieder a ?crit :

> Is there an easier way to get the label of the selected radio button
> in a group? I've got several occurrences where I've got something like
> the following ugly syntax. It seems like there should be something
> more intuitive, but I can't seem to come up with it.
>
> switch the label of button (the hilitedButton of group "gpFilter")  
> of group "gpFilter"
>   case "the label of radio button 1"
>     break
>   ...etc.
> end switch


Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
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From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Nov 22 02:38:59 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 23:38:59 -0800
Subject: group syntax question
In-Reply-To: <4382C1BB.6050304@fourthworld.com>
References: <6239863560.20051121225529@ahsoftware.net>
	<4382C1BB.6050304@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <16442472712.20051121233859@ahsoftware.net>

Richard-

Monday, November 21, 2005, 10:59:07 PM, you wrote:

> do (the uAction of the hilitedbutton of grp "gpFilter")

...interesting idea, but I don't want to trigger an event when the
radio button is selected, I just want to be able to query it later on.
I suppose I could have the mouseUp event trigger the setting of a
local variable and then query that when the time comes, but that seems
like adding an extra level.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Tue Nov 22 02:53:07 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 08:53:07 +0100
Subject: Object Orientation in arrays
In-Reply-To: <C01CBC4E-BAFD-42E1-9749-F02C898205A8@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <OFEBFA4662.002B6B72-ONC12570C1.002879A2-C12570C1.002B50FD@deutsche-boerse.com>

hello scripters

Just wondering what scripters feel like about a few possible uses of 
arrays as objects...

Way back in HyperCard, where no arrays existed, we did the good old 
approach

repeat with x = ...
  get item x of anything 
  do "put it into object" & X

Thanks to Scott Raney, we can use arrays today...

But this leads to possible chaos...

For easy cases, pArray[x]...
For specific cases, pArray[thisobject]

BUT, it gets more complicated... Im working on a port of XUL, xml, Css, 
and
a few more things into an ajax paradigm... As you can imagine, the xul 
elements
are a bit more involved, some with "inherited" behaviors which in Rev are 
actual
properties or extra commands...

So, in the end we get xulObjDB["object", ObjID, "property", "Hidden"]...

The problem is that transcript is not that good with multiarray 
management...

For example you can't extract just a list of the objIDs... Not without a 
loop,
the split function will not get you the 2nd column...

There's no way to create the Array without inserting each element into 
it's 
corresponding node. Not that wrappers can't be done but it's quite 
inneficient.

I still have to read on transpose and other array styles (numeric) to see 
if 
there is any other way to do this via indexed/hashed arrays... 

For example:
XULObjs[objID, "name"]
XULObjs[objID, "Type"]

or, in this case where it is easy to get a list of the ids...

XUL[ObjID] = object ID
XULName[ObjID] = name
XUProps[ObjID] = props, etc...

The issues here is that either we have one big array with LOTs of keys or
different arrays to parse each (less keys, but more loops )...

Any ideas on how to make big multidimensional arrays easier to handle?

So, im looking forward to your ideas on which is best given that there's a
tree hierarchy of objects in a xul or xml or html document to be parsed,
each object in the tree nodes has properties, possibly children objects...

And yes, there's possibly hundreds or thousands of objects...

I know how to handle these, that's not the problem. Im wondering if there 
isn't
a better way to handle the arrays and/or which is easier to manage...

Thanks in advance

cheers
Xavier


-----------------------------------------
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From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Nov 22 02:58:51 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 01:58:51 -0600
Subject: group syntax question
In-Reply-To: <16442472712.20051121233859@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <BFA82BDB.30355%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/22/05 1:38 AM, "Mark Wieder" <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:

> Richard-
> 
> Monday, November 21, 2005, 10:59:07 PM, you wrote:
> 
>> do (the uAction of the hilitedbutton of grp "gpFilter")
> 
> ...interesting idea, but I don't want to trigger an event when the
> radio button is selected, I just want to be able to query it later on.
> I suppose I could have the mouseUp event trigger the setting of a
> local variable and then query that when the time comes, but that seems
> like adding an extra level.

Can you use the *name* of the button instead of its label? If you can, it
would be:

switch (the hilitedButtonName of group "gpFilter")
  ...

If not, perhaps you should lobby for the 'hilitedButtonLabel' property...

:-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 22 04:03:22 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 01:03:22 -0800
Subject: group syntax question
In-Reply-To: <6239863560.20051121225529@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <BFA81EDA.30CF1%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

I suppose you could set a custom property of the group and test that .
Assuming the hilite is only changed by a user click, the mouseup would be
the only place to do the maintenance of the property, then you could test it
later.

Does this change on each card, or could this even be a stack custom
property?

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 11/21/05 10:55 PM, "Mark Wieder" <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:

> All-
> 
> Is there an easier way to get the label of the selected radio button
> in a group? I've got several occurrences where I've got something like
> the following ugly syntax. It seems like there should be something
> more intuitive, but I can't seem to come up with it.
> 
> switch the label of button (the hilitedButton of group "gpFilter") of group
> "gpFilter"
>   case "the label of radio button 1"
>     break
>   ...etc.
> end switch




From david at openpartnership.net  Tue Nov 22 05:56:42 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:56:42 +0100
Subject: What I understand 'Open Source' to mean
In-Reply-To: <4382305C.4050405@fourthworld.com>
References: <web-339450012@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<4382305C.4050405@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <A6E39FC7-DAE2-481D-9360-CCFF50ACD1CF@openpartnership.net>

On 21 Nov 2005, at 21:38, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> But in terms of contracting with governments which require open  
> source software, I think that leaves us out even if our part of a  
> solution is open source since we, like Flash, Director, Toolbook,  
> and xCode developers, rely on proprietary components to get the job  
> done.

This is absolutely not the case as those of us engaged in such  
contracts and bids can testify - even Linus Torvalds uses proprietary  
tools in developing Linux kernel.

Government contracts do not require that all tools and code used is  
open source (I think this would not even be legal).  They do require  
a clear open source strategy - which Revolution is in a very good  
position to be a key part of - solving many of the issues that occur  
when the "open source zealots" try to deliver useful services to  
clients.

From david at openpartnership.net  Tue Nov 22 06:02:14 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:02:14 +0100
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <438232F8.4030600@fourthworld.com>
References: <web-339309330@mail.maclaunch.com>	<437E36F6.7070507@fourthworld.com>	<D81DFE65-D3EE-4C9C-A598-B57376E3E00D@openpartnership.net>	<4381F2E6.2020701@fourthworld.com>
	<AD497F8B-4D4A-427F-863E-E7176CE525C4@danshafer.com>
	<438232F8.4030600@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <76BAA85E-EB28-4C7E-AF54-3F0664CC808F@openpartnership.net>

On 21 Nov 2005, at 21:50, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> But the bottom line for us Rev developers is that if a customer  
> requires a truly open source solution then the source must be open  
> -- that's not the case with Rev, Windows, or OS X, so it rules out  
> solutions dependent on any of those packages.

Spoken like a true open source purist!

I think you may have had too many dinners with Richard Stallman -  
real world open source projects are, and will increasingly become  
hybrids of closed and open components within a clear "open strategy"  
in which any closed source components can be replaced by open ones  
within reasonable development constraints and budgets.



From david at openpartnership.net  Tue Nov 22 06:06:45 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:06:45 +0100
Subject: SHA-1 algorithm in xTalk?
In-Reply-To: <f54296680511211258p1205f5b9k121dec1e5469e741@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5a823a596467f78430956469f6abb70d@backtalk.com>
	<437E8980.7030108@comcast.net>
	<56080D7B-E46E-490E-B3AF-874692EA879B@openpartnership.net>
	<f54296680511210835u5595efe6l48e6dff504944095@mail.gmail.com>
	<693F3EE0-F513-4604-8705-3A237D8A16DD@openpartnership.net>
	<f54296680511211258p1205f5b9k121dec1e5469e741@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F1EA2492-9C4B-44A1-9ED1-68FCEA39CADB@openpartnership.net>

On 21 Nov 2005, at 21:58, Alessandro Manotti wrote:

> On 11/21/05, David Bovill <david at openpartnership.net> wrote:
>
>> The SSL libraries that RunRev uses should be able to do this - and I
>> would have thought considerably faster than a native and possibly
>> less secure Transcript implementation - no?
>
> What do you mean when you talk about "less secure"?

Minor point - to do with trusting the code. Standard open libraries  
are trusted - what is to say that the Transcript code generating the  
SHA-1 hash has not been subtly altered? What is the best way to  
ensure this does not happen? An SHA-3 hash of the SHA-1 code :)

> If RunRev player implements sha-1, then in transcript one can manage
> certificates, etc... but without sha-1 algorithm....

Yes it would be cool - not really sure if in the case of SSL it is  
better for the trust reasons hinted at above to keep the standard  
open external or integrate into the engine proprietary code.


From david at openpartnership.net  Tue Nov 22 06:16:24 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:16:24 +0100
Subject: Object Orientation in arrays
In-Reply-To: <OFEBFA4662.002B6B72-ONC12570C1.002879A2-C12570C1.002B50FD@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OFEBFA4662.002B6B72-ONC12570C1.002879A2-C12570C1.002B50FD@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <9057B6B9-9F0C-4988-9FF8-62C9C994C5A9@openpartnership.net>

On 22 Nov 2005, at 08:53, xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:

> I know how to handle these, that's not the problem. Im wondering if  
> there
> isn't
> a better way to handle the arrays and/or which is easier to manage...

Not with arrays - I don't think they are up to handling the complex  
nesting required. Think you have to work with XML directly for all  
but the simplest configurations.


From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Tue Nov 22 06:22:51 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Wouter)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:22:51 +0100
Subject: SHA-1 algorithm in xTalk?
In-Reply-To: <693F3EE0-F513-4604-8705-3A237D8A16DD@openpartnership.net>
References: <5a823a596467f78430956469f6abb70d@backtalk.com>
	<437E8980.7030108@comcast.net>
	<56080D7B-E46E-490E-B3AF-874692EA879B@openpartnership.net>
	<f54296680511210835u5595efe6l48e6dff504944095@mail.gmail.com>
	<693F3EE0-F513-4604-8705-3A237D8A16DD@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <50C1DE81-C01E-4AFE-84DB-740EE7C2F911@scarlet.be>

On 21 Nov 2005, at 17:40, David Bovill wrote:

> The SSL libraries that RunRev uses should be able to do this - and  
> I would have thought considerably faster than a native and possibly  
> less secure Transcript implementation - no?

Which is easy to do with shell() and openssl.
Shao Sean will offer a pure transcript version of SHA-1 in a short time.
Meanwhile one can experiment with the openssl version:
(this is a mac version working on OSX 10.4.3 rev 2.6.1,
never tested on other OS versions/platforms,
please upload the adaptations and good luck)

- for hash of a file:

on mouseUp
   answer file "choose file for hash"
   if it <> "" then
     replace space with "\"&space in it
     put OSSL(it) into fld 1
   end if
end mouseUp

function OSSL pPath
  return word -1 of shell("openssl dgst -sha1" && pPath)
end OSSL

- for hash of a password or other string(s):

on mouseUp
   put OSSL(fld 1) into fld 2
end mouseUp

function OSSL pText
   put the tempName&".tmp" into tPath
   put pText into url ("file:"&tPath)
   ## adapt time  according to rig (may be not necessary)
   wait 0 with messages
   return word -1 of shell("openssl dgst -sha1" &&tPath)
end OSSL

Other hashes are available --> man pages sha1
Option to sign a file by adding a flag --> man pages sha1
Other services of openssl --> man pages openssl

> On 21 Nov 2005, at 17:35, Alessandro Manotti wrote:
>
>> Sorry if I introduce myself in this posts.
>> Please note that md5 is no more reliable! Since it was officially  
>> cracked.
>>
>> Even Sha-0 was cracked, but it is far incomplete/primitive then  
>> sha-1,
>> which is the only reliable hash system to verify digital signature,
>> software integrity, etc...

SHA-1 has been compromised too.
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/02/sha1_broken.html
http://www.rsasecurity.com/rsalabs/node.asp?id=2927
etc.

Greetings,
Wouter


From david at openpartnership.net  Tue Nov 22 06:37:07 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:37:07 +0100
Subject: SHA-1 algorithm in xTalk?
In-Reply-To: <50C1DE81-C01E-4AFE-84DB-740EE7C2F911@scarlet.be>
References: <5a823a596467f78430956469f6abb70d@backtalk.com>
	<437E8980.7030108@comcast.net>
	<56080D7B-E46E-490E-B3AF-874692EA879B@openpartnership.net>
	<f54296680511210835u5595efe6l48e6dff504944095@mail.gmail.com>
	<693F3EE0-F513-4604-8705-3A237D8A16DD@openpartnership.net>
	<50C1DE81-C01E-4AFE-84DB-740EE7C2F911@scarlet.be>
Message-ID: <9ED6F00A-F468-46FC-9909-52BB910D8A8D@openpartnership.net>

Thanks!

On 22 Nov 2005, at 12:22, Wouter wrote:

> Which is easy to do with shell() and openssl.

> SHA-1 has been compromised too.
> http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/02/sha1_broken.html
> http://www.rsasecurity.com/rsalabs/node.asp?id=2927
> etc.

Bummer isn't it :)


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Tue Nov 22 06:40:57 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:40:57 +0100
Subject: Object Orientation in arrays
In-Reply-To: <9057B6B9-9F0C-4988-9FF8-62C9C994C5A9@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <OFC8D733A2.2CE05571-ONC12570C1.003F934C-C12570C1.00402D13@deutsche-boerse.com>

David,

The thing with XUL or the basis for this question is to just translate XML 
type data or streams of data
to memory for faster management.... 

I also tried to work with xml in a recent project and as soon as i had 500 
objects in this text variable
things started slowing down drastically... Which is what i would like to 
avoid.

Since puting arrays into arrays is out of the question in rev (though it 
would be idea), and XML does 
require a bit more parsing than arrays, there must be an easier, or more 
efficient method...

BTW, i did try xml into an array, and the problem is still parsing xml... 
Parsing Arrays is much more
efficient...

Thanks for the comments

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 22/11/2005 12:16:24:

> On 22 Nov 2005, at 08:53, xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:
> 
> > I know how to handle these, that's not the problem. Im wondering if 
> > there
> > isn't
> > a better way to handle the arrays and/or which is easier to manage...
> 
> Not with arrays - I don't think they are up to handling the complex 
> nesting required. Think you have to work with XML directly for all 
> but the simplest configurations.




-----------------------------------------
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recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
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IMPORTANT MESSAGE

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From david at openpartnership.net  Tue Nov 22 07:08:18 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 13:08:18 +0100
Subject: Object Orientation in arrays
In-Reply-To: <OFC8D733A2.2CE05571-ONC12570C1.003F934C-C12570C1.00402D13@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OFC8D733A2.2CE05571-ONC12570C1.003F934C-C12570C1.00402D13@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <3B6BEC3D-58D5-4CF1-AFE1-9BC75A3D893E@openpartnership.net>

On 22 Nov 2005, at 12:40, xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:

> David,
>
> The thing with XUL or the basis for this question is to just  
> translate XML
> type data or streams of data
> to memory for faster management....
>
> I also tried to work with xml in a recent project and as soon as i  
> had 500
> objects in this text variable
> things started slowing down drastically... Which is what i would  
> like to
> avoid.
>
> Since puting arrays into arrays is out of the question in rev  
> (though it
> would be idea), and XML does
> require a bit more parsing than arrays, there must be an easier, or  
> more
> efficient method...
>
> BTW, i did try xml into an array, and the problem is still parsing  
> xml...
> Parsing Arrays is much more
> efficient...

Yes - would be a problem for large documents - but XUL and web  
services are not that large? For anything larger I guess the only  
choice is a database - Valentina comes to mind due to its clean  
object-relational mapping? Maybe Ruslan can give some pointers?

However in general, as I am not strong in database design, I do not  
know how to structure such dbs with variable nesting - for these  
reasons I like to shift anything that complex to the domain of open  
source projects that have spent years tackling it and call them with  
web services?

NB - XUL (XML user interface language) is used by Mozilla to define  
in an open way how rich applications lay out their interfaces. This  
is another example of how Revolution can be used as a key component  
of an open source strategy.


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Tue Nov 22 07:27:06 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 13:27:06 +0100
Subject: Speaking of opensource
In-Reply-To: <3B6BEC3D-58D5-4CF1-AFE1-9BC75A3D893E@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <OF05BD2976.DBBE3547-ONC12570C1.0043F870-C12570C1.004466A1@deutsche-boerse.com>

Two articles i saw today:
one in slashdot: Paris going opensource
http://politics.slashdot.org/politics/05/11/21/180220.shtml?tid=185&tid=219

one in the register: Vienna too...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/22/vienna_goes_open/

My question is this: Sooner or later governments will do so too
to minimize costs and enhance their administrations... 

Though it sounds logical, it's not certain...

However what is certain is that education is going the way
their governments will tell them... 

Think Rev can start a new education revolution? ;)

cheers
Xavier


-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
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From david at openpartnership.net  Tue Nov 22 07:47:34 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 13:47:34 +0100
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <web-339452003@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339452003@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <B29C323B-B57F-4EE8-90F2-0D94DE79FB30@openpartnership.net>

On 21 Nov 2005, at 22:03, Mathewson wrote:

> I believe that it would, ultimately, be in RR's interest to
> release a FREE (as in totally free) version of RR for Linux
> - possibly modified from current Linux RR versions so that
> it cannot be used to manufacture standalones for commercial
> platforms.

The right sort of license would allow the open source code only to  
run on open source platforms with a dual licence for closed platforms  
allowing charging. This would enable open source developers to  
contribute improvements which RunRev could bundle and sell on Windows  
and OSX.

Mind you I know of no such license (yet).



From sunshine at public.kherson.ua  Tue Nov 22 07:49:31 2005
From: sunshine at public.kherson.ua (Ruslan Zasukhin)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:49:31 +0200
Subject: Object Orientation in arrays
In-Reply-To: <3B6BEC3D-58D5-4CF1-AFE1-9BC75A3D893E@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <BFA8E07B.435F6%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>

On 11/22/05 2:08 PM, "David Bovill" <david at openpartnership.net> wrote:

Hi David,

>> BTW, i did try xml into an array, and the problem is still parsing  xml...
>> Parsing Arrays is much more efficient...
> 
> Yes - would be a problem for large documents - but XUL and web
> services are not that large? For anything larger I guess the only
> choice is a database - Valentina comes to mind due to its clean
> object-relational mapping? Maybe Ruslan can give some pointers?

Do you talk about mapping of XML document into database ?

A lots issues here can be raised.


> However in general, as I am not strong in database design, I do not
> know how to structure such dbs with variable nesting - for these
> reasons I like to shift anything that complex to the domain of open
> source projects that have spent years tackling it and call them with
> web services?

Any nested level of XML can be simulated on self-recursive table.

Generally speaking any XML document can be stored into SINGLE self-recursive
table. 

Also it is possible to use 2 tables for this, to make things little more
clean.

And of course it is possible use more than 2 tables to get more and more
specific entities.


---------
FYI, we have realize that Valentina with its Object-Relational model is
perfect for XML work. This have point one my friend, that is teacher in
university. He say that we must add into Valentina support of XQuery, DOM,
DAV, HTTP, ...

I have read many articles about Xquery already, and I start to love this
idea. SQL is language of Relational model.

Valentina 2 implements not only Relational model, but Navigational Model.
I'd say Extended Navigational model (because it can work with sets of
records). 

It is well known, that Navigational model did not have language like SQL,
which can in text form express queries to REMOTE server. Now Valentina have
great gift -- Xquery standard is almost done. So we going join Xquery with
our Navigational model.


For those who wonder. Xquery for example, have ORDER of items:
        before, after

which do not support SQL. And this is nature of Navigational model.

Well, as I have told, a lots of issues can be discussed here.


-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]




From tkuypers at pandora.be  Tue Nov 22 07:58:06 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 13:58:06 +0100
Subject: [slightly OT] using sudo -S via shell
In-Reply-To: <BFA63605.301F3%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BFA63605.301F3%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <685D06A5-7F11-42CE-976B-857FEE41EDC3@pandora.be>

Couldn't get it to work, but found a much better solution on "http:// 
developer.apple.com/technotes/tn2002/tn2065.html"

Now I just create an AppleScript and run it, works like a charm :-)

And with a little extra added to the functionality as a bonus:
"Note: Using sudo(8) with with administrator privileges is generally  
unnecessary and creates security holes; simply remove the "sudo"."

Thanks everybody for your help.

Ton

On 20-nov-05, at 21:17, Ken Ray wrote:

> On 11/20/05 12:50 PM, "Mark Wieder" <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
>
>> Ken-
>>
>> Saturday, November 19, 2005, 11:01:52 AM, you wrote:
>>
>>> Here's how... in this case I'm using sudo to kill a process (the  
>>> id of which
>>> is in tPID):
>>
>>>     put "#!/bin/sh" & cr into tScript
>>>     put "pw="&tPassword & cr into tScript
>>>     put "echo $pw | sudo -S kill -9" && tPID & cr after tScript
>>>     get shell(tScript)
>>
>> And, obviously, that second line should say "after" tScript...
>
> Actually it's funny you mention that... it has worked for me with  
> that error
> in place, so perhaps the default shell I've been using works just  
> as well as
> sh.... anyway, you're right though - it should be "after".
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Tue Nov 22 08:17:23 2005
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 09:17:23 -0400
Subject: Object Orientation in arrays -   XML
In-Reply-To: <9057B6B9-9F0C-4988-9FF8-62C9C994C5A9@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <BFA892A3.12584%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

I have found the same thing. It would be nice if there were some routine
that translated XML schema but so far I have found none and write my XML
directly.


On 11/22/05 7:16 AM, "David Bovill" <david at openpartnership.net> wrote:

> On 22 Nov 2005, at 08:53, xavier.bury at clearstream.com wrote:
> 
>> I know how to handle these, that's not the problem. Im wondering if
>> there
>> isn't
>> a better way to handle the arrays and/or which is easier to manage...
> 
> Not with arrays - I don't think they are up to handling the complex
> nesting required. Think you have to work with XML directly for all
> but the simplest configurations.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
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       ^^^^      ^^^

24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (787) 809-8426

Blue Water Maritime
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From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Tue Nov 22 08:27:29 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:27:29 +0100
Subject: Object Orientation in arrays
In-Reply-To: <BFA8E07B.435F6%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>
Message-ID: <OF34A91A32.E3C93E8E-ONC12570C1.00471BD0-C12570C1.0049EDAD@deutsche-boerse.com>

Ruslan

that's very interesting... 

You are kind of confirming my need for multiple tables - a sort of linked 
list approach along with
relational lookups/indexes.

The thing is i dont want to convert stream/ xml file to be parsed to 
memory to db to memory to xml
file or other formats... 

This is still an experiment. The trick would be to handle XUL realtime in 
rev GUI for example.

After xul, web services, ajax or other models would be much easier... 

Im sure that for long long lists of objects a database like Valentina 
would be great... But in a real
time situation, im not sure it's going to be the fastest way to handle 
either conversion of xul to rev
objects...

or is it?

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 22/11/2005 13:49:31:

> On 11/22/05 2:08 PM, "David Bovill" <david at openpartnership.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> >> BTW, i did try xml into an array, and the problem is still parsing 
xml...
> >> Parsing Arrays is much more efficient...
> > 
> > Yes - would be a problem for large documents - but XUL and web
> > services are not that large? For anything larger I guess the only
> > choice is a database - Valentina comes to mind due to its clean
> > object-relational mapping? Maybe Ruslan can give some pointers?
> 
> Do you talk about mapping of XML document into database ?
> 
> A lots issues here can be raised.
> 
> 
> > However in general, as I am not strong in database design, I do not
> > know how to structure such dbs with variable nesting - for these
> > reasons I like to shift anything that complex to the domain of open
> > source projects that have spent years tackling it and call them with
> > web services?
> 
> Any nested level of XML can be simulated on self-recursive table.
> 
> Generally speaking any XML document can be stored into SINGLE 
self-recursive
> table. 
> 
> Also it is possible to use 2 tables for this, to make things little more
> clean.
> 
> And of course it is possible use more than 2 tables to get more and more
> specific entities.
> 
> 
> ---------
> FYI, we have realize that Valentina with its Object-Relational model is
> perfect for XML work. This have point one my friend, that is teacher in
> university. He say that we must add into Valentina support of XQuery, 
DOM,
> DAV, HTTP, ...
> 
> I have read many articles about Xquery already, and I start to love this
> idea. SQL is language of Relational model.
> 
> Valentina 2 implements not only Relational model, but Navigational 
Model.
> I'd say Extended Navigational model (because it can work with sets of
> records). 
> 
> It is well known, that Navigational model did not have language like 
SQL,
> which can in text form express queries to REMOTE server. Now Valentina 
have
> great gift -- Xquery standard is almost done. So we going join Xquery 
with
> our Navigational model.
> 
> 
> For those who wonder. Xquery for example, have ORDER of items:
>         before, after
> 
> which do not support SQL. And this is nature of Navigational model.
> 
> Well, as I have told, a lots of issues can be discussed here.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Best regards,
> 
> Ruslan Zasukhin
> VP Engineering and New Technology
> Paradigma Software, Inc
> 
> Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
> http://www.paradigmasoft.com
> 
> [I feel the need: the need for speed]



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
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END OF DISCLAIMER


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Tue Nov 22 08:29:05 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:29:05 +0100
Subject: Object Orientation in arrays -   XML
In-Reply-To: <BFA892A3.12584%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <OFFAECBF36.5D8F5DE5-ONC12570C1.0049F1A4-C12570C1.004A1351@deutsche-boerse.com>

Bill,

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 22/11/2005 14:17:23:

> I have found the same thing. It would be nice if there were some routine
> that translated XML schema but so far I have found none and write my XML
> directly.

What do you want to translate your schema to?

X


-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
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END OF DISCLAIMER


From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Tue Nov 22 08:41:10 2005
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 09:41:10 -0400
Subject: Object Orientation in arrays -   XML
In-Reply-To: <OFFAECBF36.5D8F5DE5-ONC12570C1.0049F1A4-C12570C1.004A1351@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <BFA89836.12588%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

I want to translate a microsft infopath XML schema to create a SQLite
database and later use that database to generate the XML that the infopath
schema used to.


On 11/22/05 9:29 AM, "xavier.bury at clearstream.com"
<xavier.bury at clearstream.com> wrote:

> Bill,
> 
> use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 22/11/2005 14:17:23:
> 
>> I have found the same thing. It would be nice if there were some routine
>> that translated XML schema but so far I have found none and write my XML
>> directly.
> 
> What do you want to translate your schema to?
> 
> X
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------
> To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
> recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
> standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.
> 
> Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
> 
> IMPORTANT MESSAGE
> 
> Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
> International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
> this message.
> 
> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
> legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
> not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
> any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
> prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
> those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
> states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
> its affiliates or subsidiaries.
> 
> END OF DISCLAIMER
> _______________________________________________
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> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
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            |    |    |
           )_)  )_)  )_)
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         )____)____)_____)\\
       _____|____|____|____\\\__
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From wouter.abraham at scarlet.be  Tue Nov 22 08:45:28 2005
From: wouter.abraham at scarlet.be (Wouter)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:45:28 +0100
Subject: Filter Command
In-Reply-To: <C3104EBF-C064-4D12-83DD-9B2C4BB1D59A@videotron.ca>
References: <C3104EBF-C064-4D12-83DD-9B2C4BB1D59A@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <1DE55D5E-D917-42DE-90C8-B484914CEA61@scarlet.be>


On 21 Nov 2005, at 20:29, Gregory Lypny wrote:

-snip-

> 	This seems to works fine for all my companies except for "TSE 100  
> Index Participation Fund Units".  I'm getting a lot of hits that  
> contain "TSE" (Toronto Stock Exchange) in the headline but not the  
> rest of the name.  This does not happen with other long names or  
> names that have a common proper noun (e.g., Canada Bread gives me  
> four hits all mentioning Canada Bread and none mentioning Canada or  
> Bread alone).
>
> 	Any thoughts?

Have a look at the chartonum of each char in the strings of the  
company names to make sure there are no special chars used.
Like for example hard spaces, which alter the string of a word or  
words if in between.
Filter command goes haywire if a "null" character (numtochar(0))  is  
in a text (origin could be certain wordprocessors, databases or rev  
itself)

Greetings,
Wouter


From david at openpartnership.net  Tue Nov 22 08:55:36 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:55:36 +0100
Subject: Object Orientation in arrays
In-Reply-To: <BFA8E07B.435F6%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>
References: <BFA8E07B.435F6%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>
Message-ID: <194050C8-EE9E-4BC6-883B-0D934420245C@openpartnership.net>

I thought this would be your baby :)

On 22 Nov 2005, at 13:49, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> Do you talk about mapping of XML document into database ?

Yes.

> Any nested level of XML can be simulated on self-recursive table.

I just love recursion :)

> Generally speaking any XML document can be stored into SINGLE self- 
> recursive
> table.
>
> Also it is possible to use 2 tables for this, to make things little  
> more
> clean.

Would be great to have an example of this for / with your  
documentation - it is not an easy concept to grasp without a good  
example?

> ---------
> FYI, we have realize that Valentina with its Object-Relational  
> model is
> perfect for XML work. This have point one my friend, that is  
> teacher in
> university. He say that we must add into Valentina support of  
> XQuery, DOM,
> DAV, HTTP, ...

So XQuery is an evolution of XPath? Always ahead of the game I see!

Can I give you an example we are working on to see how Valentina  
would fit into the picture - rhetorical :)

     1) We have a bunch of interfaces that generate farily complex  
XML documents to post to web services - person metadata, video clip  
metadata and so forth.

     2) These web services parse this data and store it in relational  
databases (sorry postGres)

     3) Other web services queerie the database and return XML

     4) Custom fields are stored as XML in a generic record so that  
we can extend easily by just adding interface elements on the clients  
- for retireve and display purposes - later to be integrated into db  
if required

     5) Revolution based interfaces can generate and store XML  
locally - batch uploading later and used as persistant off-line store.

Now what would be nice is to use Valentina to store these local XML  
structures in a flexible way (not just the relational model which is  
hard to cusotmise). How would this marry to your comments on storing  
XML in Valentina?

What would be nicer would be to be able to easily translate the local  
Valentina model into a relational model for the online services - not  
an option to use the Valentina Server at this stage.

Finally as part of the MVC / Rails discussion this online database  
would be able to generate much of the code stubs for an AJAX web  
application.

That is a flexible Rev / Valentina offline client would be able to  
generate relational tables and therefore act as an Rails / Ajax  
scaffold generator.

What sort of flexibility would be possible in terms of storing and  
retrieving relatively generic XML?








From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Tue Nov 22 09:00:30 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 15:00:30 +0100
Subject: Object Orientation in arrays -   XML
In-Reply-To: <BFA89836.12588%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <OF81BFFEDE.B06B5374-ONC12570C1.004BD026-C12570C1.004CF3DA@deutsche-boerse.com>

Bill,

I haven't worked extensively with xml or sql - though the later for my 
website and the former
for my TAOO arrays in arrays solution or parseable handler parameters...

But from what i saw on the net, you have to define the data models 
(schema) you want
translated. 

>From there (and i see this as data objects in an array for the moment), 
you can easily go
from parsed xml output from InfoPath to SQL...

This is relatively parallel to what im trying to do (except i got a couple 
more layers of objects
to handle). The key is to parse xml, convert to a format that's easily 
converted to sql insert
commands. An easy format might be a bunch of CR-delimited lists each 
representing a 
field where each line represents a record.

<xml><obj1><obj1.2><obj1.3><obj1.4><obj2><obj2.1><obj2.2>etc...

would be like

obj1.1  obj2.1
obj2.1  obj2.2
obj3.1  obj2.3

Insert sql statement would insert obj1.1,obj1.2,obj1.3 into a new record
(pseudo syntax for simplicity)

Seeing how XUL works already has given me insights on how to parse HTML 
files better
and eventually XML too (different beasts)...

Is this what you want?

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 22/11/2005 14:41:10:

> I want to translate a microsft infopath XML schema to create a SQLite
> database and later use that database to generate the XML that the 
infopath
> schema used to.
> 
> 
> On 11/22/05 9:29 AM, "xavier.bury at clearstream.com"
> <xavier.bury at clearstream.com> wrote:
> 
> > Bill,
> > 
> > use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 22/11/2005 14:17:23:
> > 
> >> I have found the same thing. It would be nice if there were some 
routine
> >> that translated XML schema but so far I have found none and write my 
XML
> >> directly.
> > 
> > What do you want to translate your schema to?
> > 
> > X
> > 



From david at openpartnership.net  Tue Nov 22 09:09:08 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 15:09:08 +0100
Subject: [slightly OT] using sudo -S via shell
In-Reply-To: <685D06A5-7F11-42CE-976B-857FEE41EDC3@pandora.be>
References: <BFA63605.301F3%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<685D06A5-7F11-42CE-976B-857FEE41EDC3@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <73557742-936A-4919-9C3A-0D889B218810@openpartnership.net>

On 22 Nov 2005, at 13:58, Ton Kuypers wrote:

> Couldn't get it to work, but found a much better solution on  
> "http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn2002/tn2065.html"
>
> Now I just create an AppleScript and run it, works like a charm :-)

Thanks for the pointer! Something like this (not tested):

on sudo_DoCommand someShellCommand, myUserName, myPassword
     -- http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn2002/tn2065.html
     put "do shell script '[[someShellCommand]]' user name  
'[[myUserName]]' password '[[myPassword]]' with administrator  
privileges" into someAppleScript
     replace "'" with quote in someAppleScript
     put merge(someAppleScript) into someAppleScript
     do someAppleScript asw AppleScript
     return the result
end sudo_DoCommand




From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Tue Nov 22 09:14:20 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 15:14:20 +0100
Subject: Object Orientation in arrays -   XML
In-Reply-To: <OF81BFFEDE.B06B5374-ONC12570C1.004BD026-C12570C1.004CF3DA@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <OFCF2B0F8E.658829D0-ONC12570C1.004E2653-C12570C1.004E380D@deutsche-boerse.com>

just to back my last post, i found this just a minute ago...

http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/200303/msg00806.html


> > I want to translate a microsft infopath XML schema to create a SQLite
> > database and later use that database to generate the XML that the 
> infopath schema used to.

cheers
Xavier


-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
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END OF DISCLAIMER


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Nov 22 09:15:50 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 15:15:50 +0100
Subject: [ANN][EN][FR] Rev Online Picker 1.0
Message-ID: <51155563-5C3E-4BDC-B86E-C27D35DFFCE0@sosmartsoftware.com>

Paris, Tue, Nov 22, 2005

---------------------- English version -------------------------

Hello,

So Smart Software has the pleasure of announcing the availability of  
Rev Online Picker 1.0, a sophisticated Rev Online browser to find and  
display the stack you need.

Rev Online Picker works in a single window that displays all stacks  
available from Rev Online by category, those uploaded since your last  
check, all descriptions and allows to display them directly from the  
web.
Safe and annulable download process.
Search tool by author, stack name or keyword.
Broadband connection recommended.

Note: Rev Online Picker works with any 2.x version (2.5 or later not  
needed).

To download Rev Online Picker, please visit http:// 
www.sosmartsoftware.com

Best regards,

Eric Chatonet.

--------------------- Version fran?aise ------------------------

Bonjour,

So Smart Software a le plaisir d'annoncer la disponibilit? de Rev  
Online Picker 1.0, un navigateur sophistiqu? dans Rev Online pour  
trouver et afficher la pile dont vous avez besoin.

Rev Online Picker travaille dans une fen?tre unique qui pr?sente les  
piles disponibles sur Rev Online par cat?gorie, celles t?l?charg?es  
depuis votre derni?re visite, toutes leurs descriptions et permet  
directement leur affichage depuis le web.
T?l?chargement des piles s?curis? annulable.
Outil de recherche par auteur, nom de pile ou mot-cl?.
Connexion internet permanente recommand?e.

Nota : Rev Online Picker fonctionne avec toute version 2.x (2.5 ou  
ult?rieur non n?cessaire).

Pour t?l?charger Rev Online Picker, merci de vous rendre sur http:// 
www.sosmartsoftware.com

Cordialement,

Eric Chatonet.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Pour les institutionnels, les entreprises et les associations
Des logiciels sur mesure : gestion, multim?dia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS et Linux... Avec la "french touch"

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Web site		http://www.sosmartsoftware.com
Email		eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com
Phone		33 (0) 143 317 762
Mobile		33 (0) 620 745 086
-------------------------------------------------------------------

From sunshine at public.kherson.ua  Tue Nov 22 09:20:55 2005
From: sunshine at public.kherson.ua (Ruslan Zasukhin)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:20:55 +0200
Subject: Object Orientation in arrays
In-Reply-To: <OF34A91A32.E3C93E8E-ONC12570C1.00471BD0-C12570C1.0049EDAD@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <BFA8F5E7.43621%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>

On 11/22/05 3:27 PM, "xavier.bury at clearstream.com"
<xavier.bury at clearstream.com> wrote:

> Ruslan
> 
> that's very interesting...
> 
> You are kind of confirming my need for multiple tables - a sort of linked
> list approach along with
> relational lookups/indexes.
> 
> The thing is i dont want to convert stream/ xml file to be parsed to
> memory to db to memory to xml
> file or other formats...

We going add into Valentina very different features to support XML.
 
One of them will allow you just store XML file AS IS.

Then Valentina will do some magic on this XML file, so you will get much
much more effective work with database of XML documents.


> This is still an experiment. The trick would be to handle XUL realtime in
> rev GUI for example.
> 
> After xul, web services, ajax or other models would be much easier...

 
> Im sure that for long long lists of objects a database like Valentina would be
> great... But in a real time situation, im not sure it's going to be the
> fastest way to handle either conversion of xul to rev
> objects...
> 
> or is it?

Only benchmark can answer this to you. :-)

-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]




From sunshine at public.kherson.ua  Tue Nov 22 09:23:32 2005
From: sunshine at public.kherson.ua (Ruslan Zasukhin)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:23:32 +0200
Subject: Object Orientation in arrays
In-Reply-To: <194050C8-EE9E-4BC6-883B-0D934420245C@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <BFA8F684.43624%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>

On 11/22/05 3:55 PM, "David Bovill" <david at openpartnership.net> wrote:

>> Also it is possible to use 2 tables for this, to make things little
>> more
>> clean.
> 
> Would be great to have an example of this for / with your
> documentation - it is not an easy concept to grasp without a good
> example?

Easy in fact, e.g. Something as

Single Table

    Kind    { element, attribute, .. }
    Name
    Value
    ParentPtr 


2 tables you just separate elements and attributes of elements


-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]




From sunshine at public.kherson.ua  Tue Nov 22 09:30:09 2005
From: sunshine at public.kherson.ua (Ruslan Zasukhin)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:30:09 +0200
Subject: Object Orientation in arrays
In-Reply-To: <194050C8-EE9E-4BC6-883B-0D934420245C@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <BFA8F811.4362A%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>

On 11/22/05 3:55 PM, "David Bovill" <david at openpartnership.net> wrote:

Hi David,

>> ---------
>> FYI, we have realize that Valentina with its Object-Relational
>> model is
>> perfect for XML work. This have point one my friend, that is
>> teacher in
>> university. He say that we must add into Valentina support of
>> XQuery, DOM,
>> DAV, HTTP, ...
> 
> So XQuery is an evolution of XPath? Always ahead of the game I see!
> 
> Can I give you an example we are working on to see how Valentina
> would fit into the picture - rhetorical :)
> 
>      1) We have a bunch of interfaces that generate farily complex
> XML documents to post to web services - person metadata, video clip
> metadata and so forth.
> 
>      2) These web services parse this data and store it in relational
> databases (sorry postGres)
> 
>      3) Other web services queerie the database and return XML
> 
>      4) Custom fields are stored as XML in a generic record so that
> we can extend easily by just adding interface elements on the clients
> - for retireve and display purposes - later to be integrated into db
> if required
> 
>      5) Revolution based interfaces can generate and store XML
> locally - batch uploading later and used as persistant off-line store.
> 
> Now what would be nice is to use Valentina to store these local XML
> structures in a flexible way (not just the relational model which is
> hard to cusotmise). How would this marry to your comments on storing
> XML in Valentina?

Will be several ways to store and use XML documents.
We only starting this work, so I cannot provide many exact info.
 
> What would be nicer would be to be able to easily translate the local
> Valentina model into a relational model for the online services - not
> an option to use the Valentina Server at this stage.

Oh, this is not easy task.

Like ask to translate high-level Revolution script into C++ code,
    or C++ into C
    or C into assembler
 
:-)

> Finally as part of the MVC / Rails discussion this online database
> would be able to generate much of the code stubs for an AJAX web
> application.
> 
> That is a flexible Rev / Valentina offline client would be able to
> generate relational tables and therefore act as an Rails / Ajax
> scaffold generator.
> 
> What sort of flexibility would be possible in terms of storing and
> retrieving relatively generic XML?

A) you store XML as is into TEXT field. Valentina do self rest magic to
effectively manage it

B) you split XML document into Relational *or* Object-Relational structure.


-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]




From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Tue Nov 22 09:32:35 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 15:32:35 +0100
Subject: Object Orientation in arrays
In-Reply-To: <BFA8F811.4362A%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>
Message-ID: <OFED64F02A.70B5C5A7-ONC12570C1.004FD3BC-C12570C1.004FE396@deutsche-boerse.com>

Here's yet another paper on the subject which im sure will interest even 
Ruslan ;)

http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~sekar/application/sekar_intelligence.pdf

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 22/11/2005 15:30:09:

> On 11/22/05 3:55 PM, "David Bovill" <david at openpartnership.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> >> ---------
> >> FYI, we have realize that Valentina with its Object-Relational
> >> model is
> >> perfect for XML work. This have point one my friend, that is
> >> teacher in
> >> university. He say that we must add into Valentina support of
> >> XQuery, DOM,
> >> DAV, HTTP, ...
> > 
> > So XQuery is an evolution of XPath? Always ahead of the game I see!
> > 
> > Can I give you an example we are working on to see how Valentina
> > would fit into the picture - rhetorical :)
> > 
> >      1) We have a bunch of interfaces that generate farily complex
> > XML documents to post to web services - person metadata, video clip
> > metadata and so forth.
> > 
> >      2) These web services parse this data and store it in relational
> > databases (sorry postGres)
> > 
> >      3) Other web services queerie the database and return XML
> > 
> >      4) Custom fields are stored as XML in a generic record so that
> > we can extend easily by just adding interface elements on the clients
> > - for retireve and display purposes - later to be integrated into db
> > if required
> > 
> >      5) Revolution based interfaces can generate and store XML
> > locally - batch uploading later and used as persistant off-line store.
> > 
> > Now what would be nice is to use Valentina to store these local XML
> > structures in a flexible way (not just the relational model which is
> > hard to cusotmise). How would this marry to your comments on storing
> > XML in Valentina?
> 
> Will be several ways to store and use XML documents.
> We only starting this work, so I cannot provide many exact info.
> 
> > What would be nicer would be to be able to easily translate the local
> > Valentina model into a relational model for the online services - not
> > an option to use the Valentina Server at this stage.
> 
> Oh, this is not easy task.
> 
> Like ask to translate high-level Revolution script into C++ code,
>     or C++ into C
>     or C into assembler
> 
> :-)
> 
> > Finally as part of the MVC / Rails discussion this online database
> > would be able to generate much of the code stubs for an AJAX web
> > application.
> > 
> > That is a flexible Rev / Valentina offline client would be able to
> > generate relational tables and therefore act as an Rails / Ajax
> > scaffold generator.
> > 
> > What sort of flexibility would be possible in terms of storing and
> > retrieving relatively generic XML?
> 
> A) you store XML as is into TEXT field. Valentina do self rest magic to
> effectively manage it
> 
> B) you split XML document into Relational *or* Object-Relational 
structure.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Best regards,
> 
> Ruslan Zasukhin
> VP Engineering and New Technology
> Paradigma Software, Inc
> 
> Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
> http://www.paradigmasoft.com
> 
> [I feel the need: the need for speed]
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



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From david at openpartnership.net  Tue Nov 22 09:49:31 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 15:49:31 +0100
Subject: Object Orientation in arrays
In-Reply-To: <BFA8F684.43624%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>
References: <BFA8F684.43624%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>
Message-ID: <EC4D278B-3CA0-46DA-B427-BE2D9EFC7971@openpartnership.net>

On 22 Nov 2005, at 15:23, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:

>> Would be great to have an example of this for / with your
>> documentation - it is not an easy concept to grasp without a good
>> example?
>>
>
> Easy in fact, e.g. Something as
>
> Single Table
>
>     Kind    { element, attribute, .. }
>     Name
>     Value
>     ParentPtr

Go on - so all that nasty XML goes in that little thing?


NB - is there any documentation anywhere on how to synch a local  
Valentina database with an online database?


From rev at armbase.com  Tue Nov 22 10:02:30 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 15:02:30 +0000
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <B29C323B-B57F-4EE8-90F2-0D94DE79FB30@openpartnership.net>
References: <web-339452003@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<B29C323B-B57F-4EE8-90F2-0D94DE79FB30@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <20051122150230.gmikbt8pk0kwg0s0@webmail.armbase.com>

Quoting David Bovill <david at openpartnership.net>:

> On 21 Nov 2005, at 22:03, Mathewson wrote:
>
>> I believe that it would, ultimately, be in RR's interest to
>> release a FREE (as in totally free) version of RR for Linux
>> - possibly modified from current Linux RR versions so that
>> it cannot be used to manufacture standalones for commercial
>> platforms.
>
> The right sort of license would allow the open source code only to  
> run on open source platforms with a dual licence for closed platforms 
>  allowing charging. This would enable open source developers to  
> contribute improvements which RunRev could bundle and sell on Windows 
>  and OSX.
>
> Mind you I know of no such license (yet).

THe Guys at xara do this.
Inded this may remind Richmond of his old OS. Xara was !Artworks on 
RISC OS :-)

they sell to Windows and give it free to mac and linux.

Cheers
Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>





From david at openpartnership.net  Tue Nov 22 10:15:13 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:15:13 +0100
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <20051122150230.gmikbt8pk0kwg0s0@webmail.armbase.com>
References: <web-339452003@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<B29C323B-B57F-4EE8-90F2-0D94DE79FB30@openpartnership.net>
	<20051122150230.gmikbt8pk0kwg0s0@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <45BC1B85-9170-4E01-AFAB-C5EF5D79DA6B@openpartnership.net>

On 22 Nov 2005, at 16:02, rev at armbase.com wrote:

> xara

http://www.xara.com/ ?



From ale870 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 10:20:22 2005
From: ale870 at gmail.com (Alessandro Manotti)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:20:22 +0100
Subject: SHA-1 algorithm in xTalk?
In-Reply-To: <9ED6F00A-F468-46FC-9909-52BB910D8A8D@openpartnership.net>
References: <5a823a596467f78430956469f6abb70d@backtalk.com>
	<437E8980.7030108@comcast.net>
	<56080D7B-E46E-490E-B3AF-874692EA879B@openpartnership.net>
	<f54296680511210835u5595efe6l48e6dff504944095@mail.gmail.com>
	<693F3EE0-F513-4604-8705-3A237D8A16DD@openpartnership.net>
	<50C1DE81-C01E-4AFE-84DB-740EE7C2F911@scarlet.be>
	<9ED6F00A-F468-46FC-9909-52BB910D8A8D@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <f54296680511220720g58e0bd67ob3907dee54fa0e2@mail.gmail.com>

Great!
But I think this solution will raise the problem of security who David
was talking about.
If everything would be included in self-contained executable, or in
RuRev player, maybe the security problem could be solved.



On 11/22/05, David Bovill <david at openpartnership.net> wrote:
> Thanks!
>
> On 22 Nov 2005, at 12:22, Wouter wrote:
>
> > Which is easy to do with shell() and openssl.
>
> > SHA-1 has been compromised too.
> > http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/02/sha1_broken.html
> > http://www.rsasecurity.com/rsalabs/node.asp?id=2927
> > etc.
>
> Bummer isn't it :)
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From sunshine at public.kherson.ua  Tue Nov 22 10:30:59 2005
From: sunshine at public.kherson.ua (Ruslan Zasukhin)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 17:30:59 +0200
Subject: Object Orientation in arrays
In-Reply-To: <EC4D278B-3CA0-46DA-B427-BE2D9EFC7971@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <BFA90653.43643%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>

On 11/22/05 4:49 PM, "David Bovill" <david at openpartnership.net> wrote:

>>> Would be great to have an example of this for / with your
>>> documentation - it is not an easy concept to grasp without a good
>>> example?
>>> 
>> 
>> Easy in fact, e.g. Something as
>> 
>> Single Table
>> 
>>     Kind    { element, attribute, .. }
>>     Name
>>     Value
>>     ParentPtr
> 
> Go on - so all that nasty XML goes in that little thing?

To store it yes.

But you still need write some logic behind of course.

And as always exists trade of.
All in single table for big db give you not best performance.

Exists other more complex and smart schemes


> NB - is there any documentation anywhere on how to synch a local
> Valentina database with an online database?

With online Valentina or online - non-Valentina ?

Actually in any case I think you manually should write algs that use some
timestamp.

-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]




From rcozens at pon.net  Tue Nov 22 10:36:14 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 07:36:14 -0800
Subject: What I understand 'Open Source' to mean
In-Reply-To: <web-339450012@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339450012@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.10.1.20051122072521.019d5eb8@pon.net>

Hi Richmond,

>I would like to find out what the "Princes of the Church"
>understand by 'Open Source'; because until a consensus is
>established as to what 'Open Source' means the present
>discussion is probably a bit pointless, with all parties
>entrenched in their respective corners baring their fangs.

IMF(oolesh)O, there is no single definition of open source because 
there are a.number of different open source license agreements 
attached to existing open source products.  In some cases, if one 
modifies (or simply incorporates as-is) open source code into one's 
own project, the entire project must be released as open source.

There was a discussion of the differences among the primary open 
source licenses a few years ago on the rev_ipc list 
<revolution_ipc at yahoogroups.com>.

Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
  Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

  from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) 



From jhurley at infostations.com  Tue Nov 22 10:50:43 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 07:50:43 -0800
Subject: Difference between Step over and Run
In-Reply-To: <20051122063913.098EB8250C2@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051122063913.098EB8250C2@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230901bfa8e97c347f@[69.85.158.172]>

>
>Jim Hurley wrote:
>>>  I have noticed in the debugger that there is quite a difference in
>>>  time of execution between
>>>
>>>      Step over
>>>
>>>  and
>>>
>>>      Run
>
>I think this is because of the traceDelay. When you are debugging, every
>step includes a pause equivalent to the traceDelay setting. When you
>"run", the engine goes back to full speed.
>
><snip stuff>
>
>>  Moral: Even though the screen is locked by script, it is not locked when
>>  running the debugger, UNLESS you Run to the next line. And it will run
>>  though the window work much faster if you  unlock the window.
>>
>>  Unless someone recognizes this as a known bug in the debugger, I will
>>  submit it.
>
>I believe this behavior is intentional. The assumption is that during
>debugging you always want to see what is happening. There have been
>innumerable instances where I was happy it worked that way, because I
>could see the screen change during debugging without altering my code
>temporarily.


Jacque,

Yes, I understand and appreciate this facility.

To understand my point you need to run the following script:

on mouseUp
   put  "" into field 1
   lock screen --Try with and without this line.
   doWindowWork --With a break point maker here
   beep
end mouseUp

on doWindowWork
   put the ticks into tStartTime
   put 1 into field 1
   repeat 100
     add 1 to field 1
   end repeat
   put cr & the Ticks - tStartTime after msg box
end doWindowWork

First, step over "doWindowWork" with the screen unlocked. You see the 
values in field 1 change (rapidly) from 1 to 100. It take about 30 
ticks. This is the way I would hope the debugger would work in this 
case.

Next, step over "doWindowWork" with the  screen locked. You again see 
the values in field 1 change from 1 to 100, but this time very 
slowly--it takes about 1000 ticks.

In both cases you "see what is happening" but at a very different 
pace. Many times in the stack I was working on, there was so much 
field work being done that "Step over" is not feasible with the 
screen locked--taking several minutes to execute. (The screen was 
locked precisely because of this field activity.)

The work around is to strike out the screen lock line in the script. 
A bit of a nuisance, requiring one script without the  debugger and 
another with the debugger. Or better, if viewing the field changes is 
not important, then running to the  next line of code.

My suggestion would be that the debugger would reveal the field 
changes at the same pace with and without the screen lock when 
stepping over the line which effects the field changes.

Sorry; long winded and perhaps a point too fine. And I'm afraid I 
confused the issue with the subject line of this post.

Jim



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Tue Nov 22 12:04:17 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:04:17 -0500
Subject: Why I equate RR/MC with LEGO - FREE, 'FREE' and UNFREE
Message-ID: <web-339491699@mail.maclaunch.com>

In my house I have about a cubic metre of LEGO. This
consists of a nucleus of LEGO pieces that were given to me
for Christmas 1965, bits bought with my pocket money as a
child, a whole lot I bought from a shop going out of
business when I was 22, some given to my children, and some
I found in a plastic bag next to a dustbin in Scotland
(some people are just plain stupid).

My children and I often make things with these LEGO bits:
whose constructions are they?

Well: 

1.the intellectual property rights are ours.

2. The bits from which the models are constructed belong to
us.

BUT, some of the pieces are not simple cubes, but all sorts
of fancy, twiddly bits invented by LEGO employees.

Presumably I am legally quite entitled to give away / sell
my model of Alezander Nevsky Cathedral in Sofia without the
LEGO company slamming a 'cease and desist' order or
somesuch on me. Presumably I can also market the design
(while making it clear that it requires LEGO bits).

Just to make things really awkward, I also have pieces from
a toy set made in Malaysia that fit together with LEGO. Now
I haven't a clue whether those Malaysian pieces are
'Original' or constitute a rip-off of LEGO.

OK, OK . . . I also have Original install floppies for
Hypercard 2.2.1 and so on.

NOW the big question is, surely, how like LEGO Runtime
Revolution and Metacard are?

I have just had an e-mail from Jane Weidman, who works for
Canonical (i.e. Ubuntu Linux) and she says I cannot release
my EFL programs under a NU-type licence.

This is getting a bit black-and-white again, and what is
needed is a MIDDLE WAY - a licence (ideally authored under
the supervision and approval of RR) that RR/MC authors can
use when they chose to release their end products made with
licenced versions of RR/MC into the FREE software arena.

sincerely, Richmond
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Tue Nov 22 12:13:37 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 09:13:37 -0800
Subject: Speaking of opensource
In-Reply-To: <OF05BD2976.DBBE3547-ONC12570C1.0043F870-C12570C1.004466A1@deutsche-boerse
	.com>
References: <OF05BD2976.DBBE3547-ONC12570C1.0043F870-C12570C1.004466A1@deutsche-boerse
	.com>
Message-ID: <p06230901bfa901102be6@[192.168.1.103]>

>Two articles i saw today:
>one in slashdot: Paris going opensource
>http://politics.slashdot.org/politics/05/11/21/180220.shtml?tid=185&tid=219

And that link goes to another link - and deep inside the article a chestnut:
http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;1941298570;fp;16;fpid;0

This strategic direction resulted in the interconnection of the city 
authority's scattered offices, and a plan to replace or upgrade the 
many applications on which the city relies. Paris plans to introduce 
a new payroll system on Jan. 1, and then replace other elements of 
its accounting, purchasing and human resources management systems 
through 2007 and 2008. Would-be suppliers of these applications must 
show that their products can be integrated at the desktop and server 
levels with free software components, the city said. Bids based on 
open-source software will be considered on the same basis as bids 
using proprietary software, it said.


Mr. X, Eric, Frederic and the other French Revolutionaries will have 
a lot more work soon!! There will always be a need for Rev apps to 
glue it all together. Congratulations.
-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -

From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Tue Nov 22 12:28:50 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:28:50 -0500
Subject: Why I equate RR/MC with LEGO - FREE, 'FREE' and UNFREE
In-Reply-To: <web-339491699@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339491699@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <B4F51477-1864-4F92-8A23-7528830E49F7@adelphia.net>

Hey,

I love LEGOs and am saving my money to buy the computerized version  
then I can start to see what Revolution can do 'WITH' LEGOs.

Myabe someone will give me them for the Holidays....

Tom

On Nov 22, 2005, at 12:04 PM, Mathewson wrote:

>
> NOW the big question is, surely, how like LEGO Runtime
> Revolution and Metacard are?



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Nov 22 12:53:06 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:53:06 -0600
Subject: Why I equate RR/MC with LEGO - FREE, 'FREE' and UNFREE
In-Reply-To: <web-339491699@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <BFA8B722.303BE%kray@sonsothunder.com>

> This is getting a bit black-and-white again, and what is
> needed is a MIDDLE WAY - a licence (ideally authored under
> the supervision and approval of RR) that RR/MC authors can
> use when they chose to release their end products made with
> licenced versions of RR/MC into the FREE software arena.

My understanding is that standalones you make with RR/MC are yours and you
can do anything you want with them (give them away, sell them, rent them,
etc.). The only thing you *can't* do is to create a standalone application
that also creates applications that would compete with Revolution. So I'm
not sure what this "middle way" is that you are looking for?


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Tue Nov 22 12:51:21 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:51:21 -0500
Subject: [OT] LEGO - for those who missed the point
Message-ID: <web-339493130@mail.maclaunch.com>

You don't need to save up for a LEGO program as the LEGO
company provide a FREEly downloadable one:

http://www.lego.com/eng/create/digitaldesigner/

unfortunately it is only available for Mac OS X and Windows

(which LEGO ignorantly describes as MAC and PC
respectively, forgetting you can run Linux on both types of
machines)

sincerely, Richmond
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From dleyanna at rtl.org  Tue Nov 22 13:01:20 2005
From: dleyanna at rtl.org (Dave LeYanna)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 13:01:20 -0500
Subject: Why I equate RR/MC with LEGO - FREE, 'FREE' and UNFREE
In-Reply-To: <BFA8B722.303BE%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BFA8B722.303BE%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <43835CF0.2080309@rtl.org>

May there be some confusion here caused by equating "free software" with 
"open source software" that is under a license that requires a "source" 
to be distributed as well as the .exe? (And that there is some kind of a 
requirement that source to the "runtimes" be released as well or in some 
cases the "runtimes" are not free and so the "software cannot be "free")

I must admit that I have not read the entire thread but I often see 
"free" and "open source" being equated.

Dave

Ken Ray wrote:

>>This is getting a bit black-and-white again, and what is
>>needed is a MIDDLE WAY - a licence (ideally authored under
>>the supervision and approval of RR) that RR/MC authors can
>>use when they chose to release their end products made with
>>licenced versions of RR/MC into the FREE software arena.
>>    
>>
>
>My understanding is that standalones you make with RR/MC are yours and you
>can do anything you want with them (give them away, sell them, rent them,
>etc.). The only thing you *can't* do is to create a standalone application
>that also creates applications that would compete with Revolution. So I'm
>not sure what this "middle way" is that you are looking for?
>
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software
>Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
>Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>  
>


-- 
Dave LeYanna
Director IS
Right to Life of Michigan
www.rtl.org



From revdan at danshafer.com  Tue Nov 22 14:14:58 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:14:58 -0800
Subject: [OT] Security Goes Visual
In-Reply-To: <BFA7D25D.25949%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BFA7D25D.25949%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <762A64F9-01BF-4020-BFC2-7F658AB5FC4E@danshafer.com>

At least one of these I've seen doesn't actually require the user to  
remember what picture/phrase was chosen except on it being shown.  
IOW, I choose a picture of a baseball and the word "homer" as my  
confirmations. When I log in with my usual user ID and password, the  
server presents those symbols and asks me to confirm that they are  
the ones I chose. Or it presents, say, three sets of pictures and  
associated words and asks me to pick the one I chose.

The idea is less for the server to identify me than it is for me to  
be confident that I'm at the right, authentic server. If I choose my  
picture and word wisely, it's just dead simple.

FWIW, one company I've worked with is using a sort of reverse  
biometric there, presenting the user with a digitized image of the  
user him/herself. The message is, "If you think you're logging into  
your bank account and you don't see YOUR picture here, then you  
aren't being logged into your account, you're being phished."

I think the idea has real merit.

On Nov 21, 2005, at 7:37 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> The recent thread regarding "thinking graphically" reminded of a  
> recent
> update my bank made to enhance protection for online banking  
> customers: they
> added a visual aspect to the login process.
>
> When logging into your account, you must now choose an image from a  
> library
> containing hundreds (thousands?) of images, and related word or  
> phrase that
> you are to be presented with every time you log in.  Presumably  
> this step
> was taken to thwart phishing attempts since it's pretty difficult,  
> if not
> impossible, to replicate the login process (the image and login  
> word/phrase
> are stored on the server).
>
> We'll have to see how effective this technique is in the long run.   
> But as a
> designer, I find this development to be very interesting and wonder  
> if the
> same safeguards will eventually be be applied to other situations  
> requiring
> secure login/registration, including software.  Pretty soon we'll  
> have to
> start keeping track of all our visual passwords, either in an image
> database, or in a descriptive text version of the same.
>
> Something to think about...
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Nov 22 14:50:10 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 13:50:10 -0600
Subject: Spelling out the license - some geometry handlers
In-Reply-To: <CDA4DE43-E1B6-4EE8-B668-2EF2DD3FF28F@openpartnership.net>
References: <200511210648.jAL6mVWP007922@mail21.syd.optusnet.com.au>	<3B8BE226-BEEB-48B7-80C8-3CFEB4063E72@danshafer.com>	<F985D6A0-00C4-47CA-8FEE-66B79BFC5174@openpartnership.net>
	<CDA4DE43-E1B6-4EE8-B668-2EF2DD3FF28F@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <43837672.606@chipp.com>

David,

I suspect one could interpret your obsession with licensing, as also an 
obsession with enforcing said licensing. I suggest you post your 
'protected' code on your website and provide a link to it.

Not only is it easier to enforce licensing practice from your website, 
but it also keeps the use-list smaller. I, for one, am not interested in 
reading (or having on my computer in an email) any of your code which 
has your prefixed licensing terms.

Perhaps the list-mom can comment regarding licensing posts to this list?

-Chipp

David Bovill wrote:
> Sorry some bug fixes - sure they can be improved sped up?
> 
> 
> License
> This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution- 
> NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.5 License. To view a copy of this license,  
> visit http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/ or send a  
> letter to Creative Commons, 543 Howard Street, 5th Floor, San  
> Francisco, California, 94105, USA.



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Nov 22 15:00:09 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:00:09 -0800
Subject: [OT] Security Goes Visual
In-Reply-To: <762A64F9-01BF-4020-BFC2-7F658AB5FC4E@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <BFA8B8C9.26042%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently,Dan Shafer wrote:

> At least one of these I've seen doesn't actually require the user to
> remember what picture/phrase was chosen except on it being shown.
> IOW, I choose a picture of a baseball and the word "homer" as my
> confirmations. When I log in with my usual user ID and password, the
> server presents those symbols and asks me to confirm that they are
> the ones I chose. Or it presents, say, three sets of pictures and
> associated words and asks me to pick the one I chose.
> 
> The idea is less for the server to identify me than it is for me to
> be confident that I'm at the right, authentic server. If I choose my
> picture and word wisely, it's just dead simple.

Yes, this is exactly the point (bots and keyloggers not withstanding) -- for
users to verify that they have indeed landed on an authentic site and not a
phishing expedition.

However, if multiple institutions start using this method, as well as other
processes such as software registration for example, you probably *will*
have to start remembering the pictures/phrases, because your logins will be
different for each server.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Tue Nov 22 15:07:06 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 15:07:06 -0500
Subject: Spelling out the license - protesting too much
Message-ID: <web-339497697@mail.maclaunch.com>

Framkly software should be either FREE (and any proprietary
elements within FREE software items should be 'bound up' in
such a way that to reverse engineer them would take such a
long time that it would be counterproductive) or UNFREE (as
in, totally bound up in legla clauses cooked up by highly
paid lawyers).

FREE software shouldn't need any licenses - Creative
Commons, GNU, Rampantly Oversexed Wrathog, or what ever.

FREE means FREE.

So those of us interested in producing FREE software should
get on and produce it; and include a nice little READ ME
document that says something rather like:

"This is FREE, do with it what you like"

and those of us who are interested in producing software
for which they want money should get on and produce it; and
include blatant signals that it is UNFREE.

Blast licences!

sincerely, Richmond

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Nov 22 15:23:54 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:23:54 -0800
Subject: group syntax question
In-Reply-To: <BFA82BDB.30355%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BFA82BDB.30355%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <4712755881.20051122122354@ahsoftware.net>

Ken-

Monday, November 21, 2005, 11:58:51 PM, you wrote:

> Can you use the *name* of the button instead of its label? If you can, it
> would be:

Thanks. That's close enough for me. I'm usually pretty good about
sticking to naming conventions, so as long as I'm careful about this I
wouldn't have to rewrite too much.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mlange at lexicall.org  Tue Nov 22 15:26:20 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 20:26:20 +0000
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
Message-ID: <4E8FF920-5E65-4A9A-A690-4FF3E82F682D@lexicall.org>

> On 21 Nov 2005, at 21:38, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> But in terms of contracting with governments which require open  
>> source software, I think that leaves us out even if our part of a  
>> solution is open source since we, like Flash, Director, Toolbook,  
>> and xCode developers, rely on proprietary components to get the  
>> job done.

David Bovill wrote:
> Government contracts do not require that all tools and code used is  
> open source (I think this would not even be legal).

Unfortunately, this is not clear. I have been in discussion with the  
guys of this project: http://eduforge.org/projects/exe/. I tried to  
lure them into using revolution to develop open source. They told me  
they couldn't because their current contract impose the exclusive use  
of open source software and tools.

It remains that participation will always be limited by the fact that  
a paid license is necessary to be in a position to collaborate to an  
open source project.

David Bovill wrote:
> I think you may have had too many dinners with Richard Stallman -  
> real world open source projects are, and will increasingly become  
> hybrids of closed and open components within a clear "open  
> strategy" in which any closed source components can be replaced by  
> open ones within reasonable development constraints and budgets.

This is obviously a solution. Eventually have some components coded  
in a code interpreted by revolution and use revolution as a kind of  
player rather than proprietary development environment.

... BTW, I cannot resist the invitation of your title. We were living  
together BUT we are now happily married :-). We had a great time!

Marielle
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From gilbert at isphlg.rimed.cu  Tue Nov 22 16:23:07 2005
From: gilbert at isphlg.rimed.cu (Gilberto Cuba)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:23:07 -0500
Subject: Char position of token...
Message-ID: <000b01c5efab$04dfd070$1c037b98@p42600>

Hi,

How I can know the position of char of the determined token of the string?

Example:

put "a*sin(x+b)" into temp
put token 5 of temp   -- that return "x"
put char 7 of temp  -- that return "x"
...
now, well
...
put token 3 of temp  -- that return "sin"
put char 3 to 5 of temp  -- that return "sin"

then, i need any function that return the follow values:

token 5 of temp --->  char 7 of temp 
token 3 of temp --->  char 3 to 5 of temp

Best regards,

Gilberto Cuba

From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Nov 22 15:37:47 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:37:47 -0600
Subject: Spelling out the license - protesting too much
In-Reply-To: <web-339497697@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339497697@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <4383819B.8090807@chipp.com>

Richmond,

I agree with you.

Mathewson wrote:
> Framkly software should be either FREE (and any proprietary
> elements within FREE software items should be 'bound up' in
> such a way that to reverse engineer them would take such a
> long time that it would be counterproductive) or UNFREE (as
> in, totally bound up in legla clauses cooked up by highly
> paid lawyers).
> 
> FREE software shouldn't need any licenses - Creative
> Commons, GNU, Rampantly Oversexed Wrathog, or what ever.
> 
> FREE means FREE.
> 
> So those of us interested in producing FREE software should
> get on and produce it; and include a nice little READ ME
> document that says something rather like:
> 
> "This is FREE, do with it what you like"
> 
> and those of us who are interested in producing software
> for which they want money should get on and produce it; and
> include blatant signals that it is UNFREE.
> 
> Blast licences!



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Nov 22 16:37:00 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 15:37:00 -0600
Subject: Char position of token...
In-Reply-To: <000b01c5efab$04dfd070$1c037b98@p42600>
Message-ID: <BFA8EB9C.303E8%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/22/05 3:23 PM, "Gilberto Cuba" <gilbert at isphlg.rimed.cu> wrote:

> Hi,
> then, i need any function that return the follow values:
> 
> token 5 of temp --->  char 7 of temp
> token 3 of temp --->  char 3 to 5 of temp


Here you go, Gilbert:

function stsTokenCharChunk pTokenNum,pData
  put the number of tokens of pData into tNumTokens
  put 0 into tStartOff
  repeat with x = 1 to pTokenNum
    put offset(token x of pData,pData,tStartOff) + tStartOff into tChar
  end repeat
  return "char" && tChar && "to" && \
    (tChar + length(token pTokenNum of pData)-1)
end stsTokenCharChunk

If you don't want it coming back "char 3 to 5" but want it as "3,5" or
something else, just change the last "return" line.

Have fun!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Nov 22 16:43:44 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 15:43:44 -0600
Subject: Difference between Step over and Run
In-Reply-To: <p06230901bfa8e97c347f@[69.85.158.172]>
References: <20051122063913.098EB8250C2@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230901bfa8e97c347f@[69.85.158.172]>
Message-ID: <43839110.1070702@hyperactivesw.com>

Jim Hurley wrote:

> To understand my point you need to run the following script:
> 
> on mouseUp
>   put  "" into field 1
>   lock screen --Try with and without this line.
>   doWindowWork --With a break point maker here
>   beep
> end mouseUp
> 
> on doWindowWork
>   put the ticks into tStartTime
>   put 1 into field 1
>   repeat 100
>     add 1 to field 1
>   end repeat
>   put cr & the Ticks - tStartTime after msg box
> end doWindowWork
> 
> First, step over "doWindowWork" with the screen unlocked. You see the 
> values in field 1 change (rapidly) from 1 to 100. It take about 30 
> ticks. This is the way I would hope the debugger would work in this case.
> 
> Next, step over "doWindowWork" with the  screen locked. You again see 
> the values in field 1 change from 1 to 100, but this time very 
> slowly--it takes about 1000 ticks.
> 
> In both cases you "see what is happening" but at a very different pace. 

Right. What it looks like to me is that the screen is being locked and 
unlocked after each command, to enable you to see what is happening 
during debugging but to keep the the context of the lockscreen command 
consistent with its normal, non-debug state.

For example, if you had a handler that checked the state of the 
lockscreen before doing an action, that handler would fail if the 
debuger kept the state unlocked while stepping through code. So, it sets 
the lockscreen to false, executes a line of code, and then sets it to 
true again so that the next line of code can correctly evaluate the 
state. Drawing to screen is time-consuming, so it slows things down 
considerably. I think this is the only way to debug correctly though.

At least, that's what it looks like to me.
-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From amorgan59 at nc.rr.com  Tue Nov 22 16:47:42 2005
From: amorgan59 at nc.rr.com (Allen Morgan)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:47:42 -0500
Subject: PostgreSQL on linux
Message-ID: <438391FE.2070101@nc.rr.com>

Hi,

My first post: I've tried my best to get the Linux engine to 
successfully hit PostgreSQL.  I put a libpq.so.2 into play as described 
back on Mar 1 to workaround the missing lib error, but get

hello world
found dbPostgreSQL.so
symbols 1082168400,1082168272,1082168368
called idcounterptr/work/revolution/Revolution-2.6/revolution.x86 
exiting on signal 11

from  this small startup:

#!/work/revolution/Revolution-2.6/revolution.x86
on  startup
      put "hello world"
      put 
revOpenDatabase("PostgreSQL","localhost","adatabase","adbuser","apassword")
end startup

as well as having standalones and the development environment itself 
crash when trying an equivalent connection in each.  I copied the 
supplied driver dbpostgresql.so to dbPostgreSQL.so, as rev seems to be 
looking for that specific case.  I have used $LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point 
to the database_driver, which it does seem to find.  I wonder if there 
are other environment variables  akin to the REV_GDK_PATH that 
facilitate db access.  My linux is Redhat 9 and my PostgreSQL is 7.3.2, 
but I've tried 8.0.1 and 8.1 too.

Does anyone have this working who would be willing to shoot me a few 
insights?

Best regards,

Allen Morgan






From revolution at jaedworks.com  Tue Nov 22 16:48:35 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 13:48:35 -0800
Subject: Char position of token...
In-Reply-To: <000b01c5efab$04dfd070$1c037b98@p42600>
References: <000b01c5efab$04dfd070$1c037b98@p42600>
Message-ID: <p06210208bfa942551cb3@[192.168.2.17]>

At 4:23 PM -0500 11/22/2005, Gilberto Cuba wrote:
>How I can know the position of char of the determined token of the string?
>
>Example:
>
>put "a*sin(x+b)" into temp
>put token 5 of temp   -- that return "x"
>put char 7 of temp  -- that return "x"
>...
>now, well
>...
>put token 3 of temp  -- that return "sin"
>put char 3 to 5 of temp  -- that return "sin"
>
>then, i need any function that return the follow values:
>
>token 5 of temp --->  char 7 of temp
>token 3 of temp --->  char 3 to 5 of temp

Try something like this:

   put offset(token 5 of temp,temp) -- gives position of first char of token 5
   put offset(token 6 of temp,temp) - 1 -- gives position of last char 
of token 5
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From revdan at danshafer.com  Tue Nov 22 16:57:19 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 13:57:19 -0800
Subject: [OT] Security Goes Visual
In-Reply-To: <BFA8B8C9.26042%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BFA8B8C9.26042%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <D5045D85-F553-4BDF-960D-693C5A525E17@danshafer.com>

Scott...

Indeed. And if we decided to "standardize" on, say, a photo of the  
user as the standard, then it would become easier and more profitable  
for the "bad guys" to figure out how to pirate that data and thus  
defeat its intent.

There are no easy solutions as far as I can see.

On Nov 22, 2005, at 12:00 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> However, if multiple institutions start using this method, as well  
> as other
> processes such as software registration for example, you probably  
> *will*
> have to start remembering the pictures/phrases, because your logins  
> will be
> different for each server.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From fgiannet at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 22 17:33:55 2005
From: fgiannet at hotmail.com (Fred Giannetto)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 17:33:55 -0500
Subject: Question on Radio Buttons
In-Reply-To: <A355DAF7-FB9B-4E53-9164-3910D006B8F2@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <BAY106-F7A60B5BDFB018F6F66FC0D7520@phx.gbl>

Hello,

I am trying to store the response from a radio button group in a global 
variable.  I have went throught the board and every remedy I try does not 
return a value.  I have one multiple choice group and one button that I am 
using to try to answer the result (so I can see if it is processing)


I have tried two different approaches
                                      Radio Button Group
on mouseup
  --put the hiliteButtonName of me into gTest
  --put the hiliteButtonID of me into gTest
  if the target is B then put "Correct" into gQuestion1 else put "Wrong" 
into gQuestion1
end mouseup

                                     Button Script
on mouseUp
  global gQuestion1
  --global gTest
  --answer gTest
  answer gQuestion1
end mouseUp

For some reason I can not seem to grasp this concept.

Thank you
All best Always
Fred




From darkshadow1 at metrocast.net  Tue Nov 22 18:22:35 2005
From: darkshadow1 at metrocast.net (Preston Shea)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:22:35 -0500
Subject: AUTORUN
Message-ID: <001401c5efbb$9f7c8d70$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>

I have a standalone that I want to distribute on CD. What do I have to do to get the program to begin automatically when the CD is inserted? What is different about distributing on DVD?  Thanks

From tominjapan at excite.com  Tue Nov 22 18:35:05 2005
From: tominjapan at excite.com (Thomas McCarthy)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:35:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Netware
Message-ID: <20051122233505.A329ABB477@xprdmailfe25.nwk.excite.com>


My program saves student's usage data in a stack (which also serves to display/evaluate it). Some teachers wanted to have this info available from anywhere.

My original solution (worked on my home machine) was to store the data stack on a web server and ftp it down to the local machine to update and then ftp it back up.

Apparently this didn't work for them (firewall?). I got the following info from the tech guy:
>We would like your software to run from the client and multiple workstations to be able to simultaneously access your program's data on a UNC path such as \\e145eves-ins\data\apps\your_program. [Netware 6.5]

Any thoughts?
Right now, I'm thinking that teachers just want the basic info, so why not have my rev app send an email to the teacher? The teacher could put his email address in a simple text file in the program's directory and the app would look for it and send off an email if it existed.

thanks
tm

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!




From soapdog at mac.com  Tue Nov 22 18:49:11 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 21:49:11 -0200
Subject: AUTORUN
In-Reply-To: <001401c5efbb$9f7c8d70$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
References: <001401c5efbb$9f7c8d70$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
Message-ID: <39135D79-E127-4E7E-9A1D-247E12A10190@mac.com>


On Nov 22, 2005, at 9:22 PM, Preston Shea wrote:

> I have a standalone that I want to distribute on CD. What do I have  
> to do to get the program to begin automatically when the CD is  
> inserted? What is different about distributing on DVD?  Thanks

Preston,

The only OS supporting autorun right now is Windows, you do that by  
using autorun.inf file with some info on how to launch your software.  
I really don't know about DVD-ROM but I assume that all windows read- 
only removable media might sport a autorun.inf file without trouble.  
Bear in mind that this won't make your software auto run on Macs and  
Linuxes.

Good luck
andre


> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From tominjapan at excite.com  Tue Nov 22 18:52:11 2005
From: tominjapan at excite.com (Thomas McCarthy)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:52:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Mp3 recording stack available
Message-ID: <20051122235211.72409BB49B@xprdmailfe25.nwk.excite.com>


I've put my mp3 recording rev stack on my site for download. It's the file titled, "Mp3Recording_stack.zip"
http://homepage.mac.com/speakup/BasicChristian/FileSharing17.html

It contains everything you need, including the LAME encoders for both Windows and Mac. [I should probably include a GNU license for them!]

Users click on a word in one field and it is recorded in wave format and then encoded into mp3. See the script of the field for more info.
cheers,
tm

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!




From gwp at accommodata.com  Tue Nov 22 20:12:55 2005
From: gwp at accommodata.com (Gregg)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 20:12:55 -0500
Subject: revSaveAsStandalone Error
Message-ID: <2c1f9da11cd95e2043725b1a78d58014@accommodata.com>

	Anyone seen this error?  Any clues about getting
	my stack to build?

There was an error executing a script in stack
revSaveAsStandalone.  No more informaiton is
available because the stack is password protected.

	Here's a screenshot of the error:

<http://home.comcast.net/~gwp0/BuildError.jpg>



From davis.phil at comcast.net  Tue Nov 22 20:38:39 2005
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 17:38:39 -0800
Subject: Question on Radio Buttons
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-F7A60B5BDFB018F6F66FC0D7520@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY106-F7A60B5BDFB018F6F66FC0D7520@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4383C81F.1090904@comcast.net>

Hi Fred -

If you just want to put the into the global, try this:

on mouseUp -- in the radio button group
   global gQuestion1
   put the hilitedButtonName of me into gQuestion1
end mouseUp

Then your original 'button script' below should work fine.


If you want to score each answer as you go, you could do this:
- set the name of each radio button to either "correct" or "wrong"
- set the label of each button to its answer text
- make your script do this:

on mouseUp -- in the radio button group
   global gQuestion1
   put the hilitedButtonName of me & cr \
     & the label of the target into gQuestion1
end mouseUp

This would put a 2-line response into gQuestion1.
- line 1 = 'correct' or 'wrong'
- line 2 = the answer they selected

There are also other ways to accomplish this or just about anything else 
you want to do.

Food for thought...

Phil Davis



Fred Giannetto wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am trying to store the response from a radio button group in a global 
> variable.  I have went throught the board and every remedy I try does 
> not return a value.  I have one multiple choice group and one button 
> that I am using to try to answer the result (so I can see if it is 
> processing)
> 
> 
> I have tried two different approaches
>                                      Radio Button Group
> on mouseup
>  --put the hiliteButtonName of me into gTest
>  --put the hiliteButtonID of me into gTest
>  if the target is B then put "Correct" into gQuestion1 else put "Wrong" 
> into gQuestion1
> end mouseup
> 
>                                     Button Script
> on mouseUp
>  global gQuestion1
>  --global gTest
>  --answer gTest
>  answer gQuestion1
> end mouseUp
> 
> For some reason I can not seem to grasp this concept.
> 
> Thank you
> All best Always
> Fred
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 21:03:12 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:03:12 +1000
Subject: revSaveAsStandalone Error
In-Reply-To: <2c1f9da11cd95e2043725b1a78d58014@accommodata.com>
References: <2c1f9da11cd95e2043725b1a78d58014@accommodata.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511221803r73c518dcxb47fb08f8987ac46@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/23/05, Gregg <gwp at accommodata.com> wrote:
>         Anyone seen this error?  Any clues about getting
>         my stack to build?
>
> There was an error executing a script in stack
> revSaveAsStandalone.  No more informaiton is
> available because the stack is password protected.

The usual cause of this error is have "Search for inclusions...."
turned on when building a password-protected stack. Switch to "Select
inclusions...", pick the things you need from the list below and that
will most likely fix the problem.

Cheers,
Sarah


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Nov 22 22:08:37 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 21:08:37 -0600
Subject: Char position of token...
In-Reply-To: <p06210208bfa942551cb3@[192.168.2.17]>
Message-ID: <BFA93955.30423%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/22/05 3:48 PM, "Jeanne A. E. DeVoto" <revolution at jaedworks.com> wrote:

> Try something like this:
> 
>    put offset(token 5 of temp,temp) -- gives position of first char of token 5
>    put offset(token 6 of temp,temp) - 1 -- gives position of last char
> of token 5


Unfortunately this won't work for some tokens, or when there's more than one
of the same token in a string, like:

  put word 1 of (word 2 to 4 of the uProp of this card)

and we're looking for the second "word" token. Also some tokens have a space
before them, so doing -1 on the offset should be -2 (or some trimming should
take place).

However for the math formula presented, these should work fine, but just be
aware if you want to make it more general purpose.


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From shaosean at hotmail.com  Tue Nov 22 22:21:38 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:21:38 -0500
Subject: Spelling out the license - protesting too much
In-Reply-To: <20051123012739.9A1B58251A4@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-F24BBBA07339F3B4E2008EAC3550@phx.gbl>

You want "free" without any restrictions, that's what Public Domain is for 
^_^

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 22:28:38 2005
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:28:38 +0800
Subject: Spelling out the license - protesting too much
In-Reply-To: <4383819B.8090807@chipp.com>
References: <web-339497697@mail.maclaunch.com> <4383819B.8090807@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <f73a98160511221928y50286b0fj71284132af5ecd1@mail.gmail.com>

Mathewson wrote:


> > FREE software shouldn't need any licenses - Creative
> > Commons, GNU, Rampantly Oversexed Wrathog, or what ever.
> >
> > FREE means FREE.
> >
> > So those of us interested in producing FREE software should
> > get on and produce it; and include a nice little READ ME
> > document that says something rather like:
> >
> > "This is FREE, do with it what you like"
>

Such as do a simple Find & Replace: find = Mozilla, replace = "Intanett
Explora Plus", then change a couple of icons around and throw it onto the
net for $5. Let 'caveat emptor' prevail.

It would be nice if we lived in a world where that which is given freely
weren't used by the unscrupulous to sell to the unwitting.

And I'll give you that for free:-)


From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Tue Nov 22 23:04:38 2005
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:04:38 +0800
Subject: Object Orientation in arrays
In-Reply-To: <BFA90653.43643%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>
References: <EC4D278B-3CA0-46DA-B427-BE2D9EFC7971@openpartnership.net>
	<BFA90653.43643%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>
Message-ID: <f73a98160511222004n3ed67e6bkb74dc4c45b250167@mail.gmail.com>

Xavier pondered:

The issues here is that either we have one big array with LOTs of keys or
> different arrays to parse each (less keys, but more loops )...
>
> Any ideas on how to make big multidimensional arrays easier to handle?
>


I'm out of my league here but as a fairly 'basic' thinker I tend to go with
what I know works best for any given problem. When anyone mentions
multidimensional arrays I immediately think Perl. I know Rev can talk to
Perl easily (on OSX, don't have a clue about the others). The data I've sent
back and forth has been pretty small so I have no idea what the overhead may
be.

I offer this not so much as a solution but for comments as why I shouldn't
do it this way. As a 'ex' user of 'repeat with x=1 to ....' I've appreciated
the list comments about how much faster 'repeat for each...' is.


Ruslan Zasukhin enlightened us:

We going add into Valentina very different features to support XML.
>
> One of them will allow you just store XML file AS IS.
>
> Then Valentina will do some magic on this XML file, so you will get much
> much more effective work with database of XML documents.
>

Let me see if I understand this right. If Rev loaded all their Help data
(which I understand is in XML format) into Valentina, then when I click on
Topics, then on the 'Custom Properties' chapter, instead of having to wait
over 10 seconds for the content to be built (without a busy cursor so I
imagine most newbies conclude 'no answer here, click on something else') it
would actually be built very quickly - maybe under a second.

If I understand that correctly, Rev and Valentina seriously need to look at
doing a deal. Talking of which, the current deal for a Valentina license key
when upgrading to Studio (or renewing) suddenly sounds like it's worth
investigating - even though this is still a 'feature of the future'. Still,
as a hobbiest, you can't look a gift horse in the mouth :-)


From martyknapp at comcast.net  Tue Nov 22 23:40:50 2005
From: martyknapp at comcast.net (Marty Knapp)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 20:40:50 -0800
Subject: Polling Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511221803r73c518dcxb47fb08f8987ac46@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2c1f9da11cd95e2043725b1a78d58014@accommodata.com>
	<f99b52860511221803r73c518dcxb47fb08f8987ac46@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4383F2D2.6090609@comcast.net>

Is it possible from within Rev to poll search engines for data? I do a 
lot of keyword research and would like to automate getting the first 
page of search results along with the Google Page Rank and the number of 
links (stuff you can get from the Google tool bar). I know (and use) 
various tools to do this, but being a do-it-yourself guy I'd like to 
make one tool that works the way I like, and to automate repetitive tasks.

Is there a good tutorial out there that would help me get a grasp on how 
Rev can intereact with web pages?

Secondly, when I set up an "Option" style menu it works fine on my Mac, 
but is truncated (when clicked) to the width of the button on my PC. Any 
clues? (Using Rev 2.2.1)

Thank you,

Marty Knapp


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Nov 22 23:55:36 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 20:55:36 -0800
Subject: Polling Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <4383F2D2.6090609@comcast.net>
References: <2c1f9da11cd95e2043725b1a78d58014@accommodata.com>	<f99b52860511221803r73c518dcxb47fb08f8987ac46@mail.gmail.com>
	<4383F2D2.6090609@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4383F648.2020608@fourthworld.com>

Marty Knapp wrote:
> Is it possible from within Rev to poll search engines for data?

Possible?  Yes.

Allowable in Google's Terms of Service?  Debatable:

<http://www.google.com/terms_of_service.html>

     No Automated Querying

     You may not send automated queries of any sort to Google's
     system without express permission in advance from Google.
     Note that "sending automated queries" includes, among other
     things:

       * using any software which sends queries to Google to
         determine how a website or webpage "ranks" on Google
         for various queries;
       * "meta-searching" Google; and
       * performing "offline" searches on Google.


--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From john at debraneys.com  Tue Nov 22 23:57:56 2005
From: john at debraneys.com (John Tregea)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:57:56 +1100
Subject: Storing encrypted passwords in mySQL
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-F343868FF0FB86C79A9EF3EC3530@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200511230458.jAN4w0iH023144@mail16.syd.optusnet.com.au>

I am hoping for a suggestion or two on a "simple" way to encrypt a text
string for storage in mySql. I have built a login dialog (on a card) and
hide what the user types like this

on openfield
  global gThePass
  put empty into gThePass
  pass openfield
end openfield


on keydown thekey
  global gThePass
  put thekey after gThePass
  put "*" after field "Password"
  exit keydown
end keydown

on returninfield
  global gTheUser
  put empty into fld "password"
  send mouseup to btn "Login"
  exit returninfield
end returninfield  

That seems to work fine, but the resulting variable gThePass holds the
password in plain text. I want to store the password in mySql along with the
users name and other details.

So my question is;

Is there a way of encrypting the plain text string in Rev, (before sending
to mySQL) so I can store it in a mySQL table. I don't want the password to
be human readable by logging into mySQL and doing a SELECT statement
directly.

Thanks for any advice

John T



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Nov 22 23:59:30 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 20:59:30 -0800
Subject: Polling Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <4383F648.2020608@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BFA93732.26304%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently,Richard Gaskin wrote:

> You may not send automated queries of any sort to Google's
>    system without express permission in advance from Google.
>    Note that "sending automated queries" includes, among other
>    things:
> 
>      * using any software which sends queries to Google to
>        determine how a website or webpage "ranks" on Google
>        for various queries;

In other words, no Web browsers allowed.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Nov 23 00:20:37 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 06:20:37 +0100
Subject: Object Orientation in arrays
In-Reply-To: <f73a98160511222004n3ed67e6bkb74dc4c45b250167@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051123044014.1CED3824EA2@mail.runrev.com>

 

> Kay C Lan said

> Xavier pondered:
> 
> The issues here is that either we have one big array with 
> LOTs of keys or
> > different arrays to parse each (less keys, but more loops )...
> >
> > Any ideas on how to make big multidimensional arrays easier 
> to handle?
> >
> 
> I'm out of my league here but as a fairly 'basic' thinker I 
> tend to go with what I know works best for any given problem. 
> When anyone mentions multidimensional arrays I immediately 
> think Perl. I know Rev can talk to Perl easily (on OSX, don't 
> have a clue about the others). The data I've sent back and 
> forth has been pretty small so I have no idea what the 
> overhead may be.

perl is always accessible via shell on any os... But transfering data from
rev to perl will cost you. Programing in perl will cost you. And finding
bugs in perl is hell... Then there's the fact that no everyone has perl
installed...

> I offer this not so much as a solution but for comments as 
> why I shouldn't do it this way. As a 'ex' user of 'repeat 
> with x=1 to ....' I've appreciated the list comments about 
> how much faster 'repeat for each...' is.

There's always a faster way. But shell access will slow things down... The
point was about internal management of lots of objects in an array (db like
but without a db)... Im sure Valentina is a good solution but it requires a
third party tool + added development which im not sure wouldn't be
superflous in this case. 

The point is finding the right strategy to manage these array objects in
rev. 
As usual the thread was diverted again out of context (thanks David for the
suggestions but...) The issue is not dealing with databases, it's with array
objects IN Rev and in Transcript... While I don't have 10 seconds wait to
access rev docs' parts, im sure the problem may be similar for revdocs
indexing and others in the future accessing parts of their arrays in the
quickest way...

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Nov 23 00:20:37 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 06:20:37 +0100
Subject: Netware
In-Reply-To: <20051122233505.A329ABB477@xprdmailfe25.nwk.excite.com>
Message-ID: <20051123044020.4F06F82501A@mail.runrev.com>

Thomas,

Netware's or Window's UNC paths should work in Rev. I use them in a Windows
NT
and Netware environment and without a problem every day - including open
stack, open url or open file and the same with saving... Share and DFS
access also works fine. 

Any trouble of access not working is usually due to security issues (rights
to read, etc... or network connections).

IF you still have issues, you can also use the shell's os copy command to
gather the data stacks to your user's workstations and then work from
there...

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Thomas McCarthy
> Sent: Wednesday, 23 November, 2005 00:35
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Netware
> 
> 
> My program saves student's usage data in a stack (which also 
> serves to display/evaluate it). Some teachers wanted to have 
> this info available from anywhere.
> 
> My original solution (worked on my home machine) was to store 
> the data stack on a web server and ftp it down to the local 
> machine to update and then ftp it back up.
> 
> Apparently this didn't work for them (firewall?). I got the 
> following info from the tech guy:
> >We would like your software to run from the client and multiple 
> >workstations to be able to simultaneously access your 
> program's data on 
> >a UNC path such as \\e145eves-ins\data\apps\your_program. 
> [Netware 6.5]
> 
> Any thoughts?
> Right now, I'm thinking that teachers just want the basic 
> info, so why not have my rev app send an email to the 
> teacher? The teacher could put his email address in a simple 
> text file in the program's directory and the app would look 
> for it and send off an email if it existed.
> 
> thanks
> tm
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From martyknapp at comcast.net  Wed Nov 23 00:18:08 2005
From: martyknapp at comcast.net (Marty Knapp)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 21:18:08 -0800
Subject: Polling Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <BFA93732.26304%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BFA93732.26304%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <4383FB90.6050803@comcast.net>

Scott Rossi wrote:

>Recently,Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>  
>
>>You may not send automated queries of any sort to Google's
>>   system without express permission in advance from Google.
>>   Note that "sending automated queries" includes, among other
>>   things:
>>
>>     * using any software which sends queries to Google to
>>       determine how a website or webpage "ranks" on Google
>>       for various queries;
>>    
>>
>
>In other words, no Web browsers allowed.
>
>Regards,
>
>Scott Rossi
>  
>
Thanks Richard & Scott,

I just fired off an email to Google to see if I can get permission 
(though my hopes aren't too high based on what I read)

If they do give me permission I'll be back!

Any clues about my truncated Option-style menu button?


Thanks,

Marty Knapp


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Nov 23 00:44:42 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 21:44:42 -0800
Subject: Polling Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <BFA93732.26304%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BFA93732.26304%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <438401CA.2060600@fourthworld.com>

Scott Rossi wrote:
> Recently,Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
> 
>>You may not send automated queries of any sort to Google's
>>   system without express permission in advance from Google.
>>   Note that "sending automated queries" includes, among other
>>   things:
>>
>>     * using any software which sends queries to Google to
>>       determine how a website or webpage "ranks" on Google
>>       for various queries;
> 
> 
> In other words, no Web browsers allowed.

Browsers are allowed, you just can't hit the Refresh button. :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Wed Nov 23 01:14:37 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:14:37 -0800
Subject: Storing encrypted passwords in mySQL
In-Reply-To: <200511230458.jAN4w0iH023144@mail16.syd.optusnet.com.au>
References: <200511230458.jAN4w0iH023144@mail16.syd.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <89221291-2194-4A0A-AEAC-E79E4022BF44@mangomultimedia.com>

On Nov 22, 2005, at 8:57 PM, John Tregea wrote:
>
> Is there a way of encrypting the plain text string in Rev, (before  
> sending
> to mySQL) so I can store it in a mySQL table. I don't want the  
> password to
> be human readable by logging into mySQL and doing a SELECT statement
> directly.

You can use the md5Digest function to encrypt the password so it  
isn't readable as plain text inside the db.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 01:18:55 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 16:18:55 +1000
Subject: Storing encrypted passwords in mySQL
In-Reply-To: <200511230458.jAN4w0iH023144@mail16.syd.optusnet.com.au>
References: <BAY105-F343868FF0FB86C79A9EF3EC3530@phx.gbl>
	<200511230458.jAN4w0iH023144@mail16.syd.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511222218v6ef581fbnc71502227c2830d9@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/23/05, John Tregea <john at debraneys.com> wrote:
> I am hoping for a suggestion or two on a "simple" way to encrypt a text
> string for storage in mySql. I have built a login dialog (on a card) and
> hide what the user types like this
>

snip
>
> That seems to work fine, but the resulting variable gThePass holds the
> password in plain text. I want to store the password in mySql along with the
> users name and other details.
>
> So my question is;
>
> Is there a way of encrypting the plain text string in Rev, (before sending
> to mySQL) so I can store it in a mySQL table. I don't want the password to
> be human readable by logging into mySQL and doing a SELECT statement
> directly.
>

As Trevor has suggested, you can use the md5digest function to encrypt
your plain text. I sometimes use base64encode for the same sort of
thing. If you want to get a bit more sophisticated, have a look at
Richard Gaskin's pack & unpack routines at revJournal
<http://www.revjournal.com/tutorials/handy-handlers-005.html>

Cheers,
Sarah


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Nov 23 01:48:50 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 00:48:50 -0600
Subject: Netware
In-Reply-To: <20051123044020.4F06F82501A@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BFA96CF2.3044F%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/22/05 11:20 PM, "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:

> Thomas,
> 
> Netware's or Window's UNC paths should work in Rev.

Actually there is one situation where UNC paths don't work (unless Rev's
fixed it - haven't had a chance to check since 2.5.1), and that is when you
have a Rev application on an NT server that you launch from the server and
needs to address files that are local to itself on the server - but as I
said, I haven't checked since 2.5.1 so caveat emptor...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov 23 01:56:19 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 07:56:19 +0100
Subject: Storing encrypted passwords in mySQL
In-Reply-To: <200511230458.jAN4w0iH023144@mail16.syd.optusnet.com.au>
References: <200511230458.jAN4w0iH023144@mail16.syd.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <8EC33BF4-DF16-4B53-9F8E-6388C43A3785@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi John,

You have got excellent answers yet from Trevor and Sarah but you  
might consider inserting a deleteKey handler to allow the user to  
correct his entry :-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 23 nov. 05 ? 05:57, John Tregea a ?crit :

> I am hoping for a suggestion or two on a "simple" way to encrypt a  
> text
> string for storage in mySql. I have built a login dialog (on a  
> card) and
> hide what the user types like this
>
> on openfield
>   global gThePass
>   put empty into gThePass
>   pass openfield
> end openfield
>
>
> on keydown thekey
>   global gThePass
>   put thekey after gThePass
>   put "*" after field "Password"
>   exit keydown
> end keydown
>
> on returninfield
>   global gTheUser
>   put empty into fld "password"
>   send mouseup to btn "Login"
>   exit returninfield
> end returninfield

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Wed Nov 23 02:21:41 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:21:41 +0100
Subject: Netware
In-Reply-To: <BFA96CF2.3044F%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <OFD7634861.2810AB25-ONC12570C2.0026D919-C12570C2.00287040@deutsche-boerse.com>

Sorry Ken 

sure it work, and even in my older version of MC 2.5... 

put url ("file:\\vandyck\c$\boot.ini")

cheers
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 23/11/2005 07:48:50:

> On 11/22/05 11:20 PM, "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:
> 
> > Thomas,
> > 
> > Netware's or Window's UNC paths should work in Rev.
> 
> Actually there is one situation where UNC paths don't work (unless Rev's
> fixed it - haven't had a chance to check since 2.5.1), and that is when 
you
> have a Rev application on an NT server that you launch from the server 
and
> needs to address files that are local to itself on the server - but as I
> said, I haven't checked since 2.5.1 so caveat emptor...
> 
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
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recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
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END OF DISCLAIMER


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Wed Nov 23 02:37:23 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 01:37:23 -0600
Subject: Netware
In-Reply-To: <OFD7634861.2810AB25-ONC12570C2.0026D919-C12570C2.00287040@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <BFA97853.3045B%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/23/05 1:21 AM, "xavier.bury at clearstream.com"
<xavier.bury at clearstream.com> wrote:

> Sorry Ken 
> 
> sure it work, and even in my older version of MC 2.5...
> 
> put url ("file:\\vandyck\c$\boot.ini")

Just to confirm - this is launching an application stored on a network share
from a client, and the application itself is trying to locate a path on the
same network share?

If it works, I'll be happy...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Wed Nov 23 02:53:38 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:53:38 +0100
Subject: Netware
In-Reply-To: <BFA97853.3045B%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <OFB53203AE.5C50F29C-ONC12570C2.002ACD5B-C12570C2.002B5D41@deutsche-boerse.com>

Ken

set the directory to a UNC path wont work!

But you can use adapted shell calls to list the directory (trivial as dir 
\\myserver\myshare).

Note that C$ is a share (and a hidden one too) so that's not the problem.

launching also works fine (though the application is invisible)

open process"\\vandyck\c$\winnt\notepad.exe"
put the openprocesses

cheers
Xavier


use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 23/11/2005 08:37:23:

> On 11/23/05 1:21 AM, "xavier.bury at clearstream.com"
> <xavier.bury at clearstream.com> wrote:
> 
> > Sorry Ken 
> > 
> > sure it work, and even in my older version of MC 2.5...
> > 
> > put url ("file:\\vandyck\c$\boot.ini")
> 
> Just to confirm - this is launching an application stored on a network 
share
> from a client, and the application itself is trying to locate a path on 
the
> same network share?
> 
> If it works, I'll be happy...
> 
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



-----------------------------------------
To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.

Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com

IMPORTANT MESSAGE

Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
this message.

The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
its affiliates or subsidiaries.

END OF DISCLAIMER


From john at debraneys.com  Wed Nov 23 03:10:02 2005
From: john at debraneys.com (John Tregea)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 19:10:02 +1100
Subject: Storing encrypted passwords in mySQL
In-Reply-To: <8EC33BF4-DF16-4B53-9F8E-6388C43A3785@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <200511230810.jAN8A5F4017857@mail01.syd.optusnet.com.au>

Thanks Trevor, Sarah and Eric

I will do as you suggest...

 And...

 yes Eric I see that the deletekey handler would be rather a good idea 

:)


-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Eric Chatonet
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 5:56 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Storing encrypted passwords in mySQL

Hi John,

You have got excellent answers yet from Trevor and Sarah but you  
might consider inserting a deleteKey handler to allow the user to  
correct his entry :-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 23 nov. 05 ? 05:57, John Tregea a ?crit :

> I am hoping for a suggestion or two on a "simple" way to encrypt a  
> text
> string for storage in mySql. I have built a login dialog (on a  
> card) and
> hide what the user types like this
>
> on openfield
>   global gThePass
>   put empty into gThePass
>   pass openfield
> end openfield
>
>
> on keydown thekey
>   global gThePass
>   put thekey after gThePass
>   put "*" after field "Password"
>   exit keydown
> end keydown
>
> on returninfield
>   global gTheUser
>   put empty into fld "password"
>   send mouseup to btn "Login"
>   exit returninfield
> end returninfield

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
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From mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk  Wed Nov 23 04:04:19 2005
From: mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 09:04:19 +0000
Subject: Polling Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <4383F2D2.6090609@comcast.net>
References: <2c1f9da11cd95e2043725b1a78d58014@accommodata.com>
	<f99b52860511221803r73c518dcxb47fb08f8987ac46@mail.gmail.com>
	<4383F2D2.6090609@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <43843093.9000406@harbourhost.co.uk>

Marty Knapp wrote:
> Is it possible from within Rev to poll search engines for data? I do a 
> lot of keyword research and would like to automate getting the first 
> page of search results along with the Google Page Rank and the number of 
> links (stuff you can get from the Google tool bar). I know (and use) 
> various tools to do this, but being a do-it-yourself guy I'd like to 
> make one tool that works the way I like, and to automate repetitive tasks.
> 
> Is there a good tutorial out there that would help me get a grasp on how 
> Rev can intereact with web pages?
> 
> Secondly, when I set up an "Option" style menu it works fine on my Mac, 
> but is truncated (when clicked) to the width of the button on my PC. Any 
> clues? (Using Rev 2.2.1)
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Marty Knapp

You could see:

<http://www.google.com/apis/index.html>

for how to sign up for a developer key for the Google APIs. Last I heard 
you get 1000 queries per day, each of which may return max 10 results.

I wouldn't call it easy to use though.

Martin Baxter


From mlange at lexicall.org  Wed Nov 23 04:55:49 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 09:55:49 +0000
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <22A4552C-523F-446D-AED0-13BDBF438ECF@lexicall.org>

Dear Bob,

Welcome to revolution. Many resources exist, but they tend to be  
spread in different places of the web. It may take you a few days to  
discover hidden jewels.

You will find some code for a tree view at:
http://revolution.lexicall.org/stacks_education.php? 
category=tools_plugins&lastadded=added%20any%20time
The last item in the list, tree view. You may want to also have a  
look at the ontology manager which can be seen as version 2 of the  
tree view. The code in the tree view stack was somehow messy and was  
extensively rewritten for the ontology manager.

You will also find a list of various websites which propose  
revolution stacks at:
http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php? 
page=RevolutionSnippetStacks

Best wishes,
Marielle


> Hi,
>
> I'm new to Revolution (like today new) and I have to admit that I  
> was a bit surprised that there is no tree view in Revolution. Lack  
> of a tree isn't going to kill me, but it would be nice. I'm also a  
> little surprised that nobody has commented on this post... what am  
> I missing?
>
> At any rate, the URL below doesn't seem to work for me. Is there an  
> alternative URL?
>
> Thanks,
> Bob
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From mlange at lexicall.org  Wed Nov 23 05:15:50 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:15:50 +0000
Subject: Help for total newbie making a dissertation application
Message-ID: <C473E538-A242-4DFF-92A3-BA724683AA4E@lexicall.org>

Hi Ben,

Another researcher here. This is not a very difficult problem to  
solve with revolution. How much time can you spend on this?
If at least 3 months, go ahead, you should be able to get it done and  
you will greatly benefit from having learned the basic of  
programming. My experience is that 2-3 months of summer project is  
enough for resourceful master students with limited programming  
experience to learn enough of revolution to realize an application of  
that level of complexity.

If less than 2 months, then it may be best to use software designed  
for this kind of task. You will find a list of such software at:
<http://tutorials.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-index.php? 
page=softw_runningExperiments>. Check out dmdx (pc) and psyscript  
(mac), in particular. Both are freeware.

Marielle



> Hello, complete newbie here.  I purchased Revolution Studio for  
> creating an application to use in my doctoral dissertation.  This  
> is a research project, not a commercial project.  I have a limited  
> time to make things work.  Trying to figure things out on my own,  
> and making slow progress.  I have no programming experience.
>
> Here are the simplified objectives for a standalone application to  
> be individually administered to research participants.
>
> 1. I have a series of .mpg files ~ 60 sec in duration that I want  
> my participants to view, with no input from them needed.
> 2.  The participants will complete a series of different  
> questionnaires that I will need to present in Revolution, and input  
> their "yes-no" answers on the screen using a mouse.
> 3.  I want their answers to be stored for each individual so that I  
> can place the answers in a statistical spreadsheet.  If I can get  
> the answers to Excel, that will be all I need to get them where I  
> need them, but the destination is a Windows stats package, SPSS.  I  
> know what a database is, but have never worked with one.
>
> I think my needs are simple, but there is a foundation needed that  
> I simply don't yet have.  I am looking for similar applications  
> that I might borrow from to make this project work, but I will  
> cheerfully accept any suggestions or advice, to help me distinguish  
> my ass from a teakettle in this new landscape.  I am still working  
> thru the video tutorials that came with my Studio disk.
>
> My email is benbock at msn.com<mailto:benbock at msn.com>
>
> Thank you for any help in this,
>
>

Ben

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org






From mlange at lexicall.org  Wed Nov 23 05:22:26 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:22:26 +0000
Subject: Identifying objects by their tooltips
Message-ID: <65CCFD4C-5003-45E5-B140-7C09443E309E@lexicall.org>

Dear Richmond,

To avoid the block of colour, wouldn't it be possible to add initial  
of final letters to the object name rather than use the tooltip?

Another get around may be to produce a list of all pictures which are  
supposed to react to the action, with a comma as separator, and then  
add a test line:
if the name of me is among the items of lstOfWhatYoufancy then do  
WHAT YOU FANCY

Best,
Marielle

> So I am working on some EFL programs for very young
> children and ended up with a lots of drag and drop images -
> now I could spend lines and lines of code of the sort:
>
> if the name of it is "COW.gif" then do TIDDLEY POM
>
> identifying each image individually - tedious, memory
> hungry and inefficient.
>
> Now I may have reinvented the wheel - notwithstanding this
> might be a happy trick to share with the 'basic educational
> stack' crowd to which I proudly belong:
>
> if you have a class of objects to be dragged and dropped
> (or somesuch) set the tooltip of all of them to some
> 'invisible' text such as 3 spaces and then use the
> following:
>
> if the tooltip of it is "   " then do WHAT YOU FANCY
>
> Now, my next problem is to turn off tooltips so that they
> don't produce blocks of colour under my cursor!
>
> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From mlange at lexicall.org  Wed Nov 23 05:25:24 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:25:24 +0000
Subject: Identifying objects by their tooltips
Message-ID: <99FE5EE2-FA0B-4ABC-9177-469BE1749D99@lexicall.org>

Alex's suggestion of using custom properties is even better. I know  
by my own experience that it takes a bit of time to take the jump and  
come to trust custom properties (which don't exist in other  
languages). When you do, you never look back. They are really handy.

Marielle
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Nov 23 05:42:33 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 02:42:33 -0800
Subject: Identifying objects by their tooltips
In-Reply-To: <99FE5EE2-FA0B-4ABC-9177-469BE1749D99@lexicall.org>
References: <99FE5EE2-FA0B-4ABC-9177-469BE1749D99@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <43844799.5090504@fourthworld.com>

Marielle Lange wrote:
> Alex's suggestion of using custom properties is even better. I know  by 
> my own experience that it takes a bit of time to take the jump and  come 
> to trust custom properties (which don't exist in other  languages). When 
> you do, you never look back. They are really handy.

Very.  Once you get started with them, they'll change your programming 
habits forever.

For the record, although HyperCard never implemented them until the day 
it died, SuperCard introduced custom properties in the early '90s, and 
ToolBook, RADBuilder, Director, and (if memory serves) OMO had them too.

What Rev uniquely brings to the table that no other xTalk has is the 
ability to define multiple sets of custom properties, and the graceful 
ease of using array notation to address them.

While they might seem exotic to HypeTalkers, the idea of binding 
arbirtary data to an object is common, if not considered essential, in 
more formal languages.

Perhaps the closest corollary in OOPS might be instance variables.
In traditional non-OOP languages we might think of them as part of the 
record structure of an object.

In the old Mac Classic days, controls and windows had a RefCon field 
which was used to hook your own data structures to the OS-managed object.

The idea takes as many forms as there are languages, but I believe the 
binding of data to objects in Rev through custom properties and custom 
property sets is perhaps the simplest.  And with the ability to store 
both textual and binary data, they're as flexible as one's imagination 
allows.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From david at openpartnership.net  Wed Nov 23 05:47:37 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:47:37 +0100
Subject: Spelling out the license - protesting too much
In-Reply-To: <4383819B.8090807@chipp.com>
References: <web-339497697@mail.maclaunch.com> <4383819B.8090807@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <DA4B9B85-3264-4DDE-8DE8-A8359E1FA6F1@openpartnership.net>

I wish it were that simple!

A couple of last points from me on this (I retreat humbly flamed):  I  
have learned a couple of things from my stint working for Creative  
Commons UK and on prior commercial work making compilations of works  
- much of which was posted by the authors in the spirit of public  
domain. The conclusion unfortunately was that it was not legal to  
make such compilations unless you cleared the license of each and  
every contribution explicitly and directly with the author - posting  
to a general pubic email list did not qualify.

Worse, in many countries, public domain has no defined legal concept.  
That is the author cannot waive their copyright by using any form of  
public domain declaration. Creative Commons have gone to great length  
to ensure their licenses work in the various (over 100) copyright  
jurisdictions.  It is no easy task.

As an aside - we had an interesting problem here in Vienna when the  
non-commercial open channel wanted to screen public domain movies  
from Archive.org. Not legal here - as they don't recognise public  
domain! We had to get around the problem by making someone legally  
responsible for the content and getting them to license the material  
to us?

What does this mean? AFAIK it is not legal to take any code posted to  
this list and include it in your own work (commercial or not). The  
original author of the work can at any time refuse to allow you to  
use their code, or demand payment - not good news if you have to pull  
your product due to a court order while the offending code / content  
is found and patched. This is not a real world problem for small  
pieces of code, but for any compilation or library derived from many  
such contributions - this is a real problem and one which stops any  
real organised effort to create such compilations.



On 22 Nov 2005, at 21:37, Chipp Walters wrote:

> David,
>
> I suspect one could interpret your obsession with licensing, as  
> also an obsession with enforcing said licensing. I suggest you post  
> your 'protected' code on your website and provide a link to it.
>
> Not only is it easier to enforce licensing practice from your  
> website, but it also keeps the use-list smaller. I, for one, am not  
> interested in reading (or having on my computer in an email) any of  
> your code which has your prefixed licensing terms.

A caveat - I really don't like license debates especially when they  
get heated (Chipp your reply was a little loaded) - I posted the  
Creative Commons license (not such an evil thing after all) clearly  
marked as an example. To avoid list clutter it would be a simple  
policy to add a license url to the default email header, and to add a  
EULA to the email list sign up process - that way everyone is clear  
what the terms of posting code to the list are.


> Richmond,
>
> I agree with you.
>
> Mathewson wrote:
>
>> Framkly software should be either FREE (and any proprietary
>> elements within FREE software items should be 'bound up' in
>> such a way that to reverse engineer them would take such a
>> long time that it would be counterproductive) or UNFREE (as
>> in, totally bound up in legla clauses cooked up by highly
>> paid lawyers).
>> FREE software shouldn't need any licenses - Creative
>> Commons, GNU, Rampantly Oversexed Wrathog, or what ever.
>> FREE means FREE.
>> So those of us interested in producing FREE software should
>> get on and produce it; and include a nice little READ ME
>> document that says something rather like:
>> "This is FREE, do with it what you like"
>> and those of us who are interested in producing software
>> for which they want money should get on and produce it; and
>> include blatant signals that it is UNFREE.
>> Blast licences!


From mlange at lexicall.org  Wed Nov 23 06:36:51 2005
From: mlange at lexicall.org (Marielle Lange)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:36:51 +0000
Subject: Spelling out the license - some geometry handlers
Message-ID: <93359CA8-C05F-49B2-9754-94EACE182814@lexicall.org>

> License
> This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution- 
> NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.5 License. To view a copy of this  
> license, visit http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/ or  
> send a letter to Creative Commons, 543 Howard Street, 5th Floor,  
> San Francisco, California, 94105, USA.

Hi David,

You will note that all stacks in the education gallery (<http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org/stacks_education.php>) are licensed under a  
similar share-alike license.

I attended a workshop on digital rights management a few months ago.  
Interestingly, it was there recommended to drop the non commercial  
unless you have good reasons to do so. Under a share alike commercial  
license, any person who makes use of your code in a commercial  
application is expected to make its source code available to the  
community. That's all benefits for the community at large, commercial  
and noncommercial.

Currently, the discussion is centered on an opposition between free  
and commercial. That's not the point. You can make you application  
open source and still require the payment of a license for the use of  
the compiled application. Nothing prevents you from make a very  
comfortable living out of your participation in open source projects.

The point of open source is about allowing others to re-use your  
code. Some commercial users may see it as a threat for their  
business. This is an error, I believe. By re-using some code rather  
than write an application from scratch, commercial developers can  
lower their license fees. In a sense, a move to open licenses could  
bring similar benefits than apple's move with iTune. Rather than ask  
customers to pay ?20 for a full album, you propose them to pay ?1 for  
the song you really want... and people all around the world spend  
more money buying songs one by one than they would have when having  
to pay ?20 for an album with many tracks (features) they didn't  
really want (apparently even more money is spent on cheap ringtones  
than on music).

Open Source is not necessarily a threat to commercial developers.  
There will always be users who don't have the skills, desire or time  
to hack open source code. I liked Dan's answer to "why are we always  
creating another version of the same thing"... like we are always  
creating another version of the same sentence or the another version  
of the same painting. Phrases and paintings have been produced for  
centuries. Yet, people still make a living from being a writer or an  
artist. Yet, though pencils and papers are about free and easy to  
reuse and many many books exist to teach me how to paint, I am  
completely crap at it and will never be able to make a living out of  
any artwork I may produce. When I want to decorate my home, I don't  
go and buy brushes and canvas... I go and buy a nice painting  
produced by some skilled artist.

I don't believe the open source movement will kill the market. It  
will probably create new needs rather than answer all the ones  
computer users may have. Amateurs and Hobbyists will never be able to  
answer these needs as well as gifted programmers.

Likewise, I don't believe commercial developers are a threat to the  
open source movement. So why not change the license to Share alike  
rather than Share alike-Non commercial?

Marielle

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: mlange at blueyonder.co.uk, M.Lange at ed.ac.uk
Homepage                                                            
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/
Easy access to lexical databases                    http://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists              http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org




From paolo.mazza at neol.it  Wed Nov 23 06:39:39 2005
From: paolo.mazza at neol.it (paolo mazza)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:39:39 +0100
Subject: selectedChunk in MAC and Windows
In-Reply-To: <E2BEED18-E4DC-4108-B6FC-67D22AE91E7E@conncoll.edu>
References: <E2BEED18-E4DC-4108-B6FC-67D22AE91E7E@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <fc.000f58e500a46b0f3b9aca003c180774.a46b3e@fc.neol.it>

Referring to the selectedChunk property, I  noticed there is a different
behaviour in Mac and Windows.

Try this:
After selecting  a word in a text field  
if I  press a button with  "put the selectedChunk" 
in MAC it returs "char 1 to 9 of field 1"
in windows it returns empty

The poin is that in MAC it keeps the selection after pressing the button,
in windows no.

Is it a bug or what? I transferd exactly the same stack.

Best regards

Paolo Mazza






From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Nov 23 06:43:07 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 03:43:07 -0800
Subject: selectedChunk in MAC and Windows
In-Reply-To: <fc.000f58e500a46b0f3b9aca003c180774.a46b3e@fc.neol.it>
References: <E2BEED18-E4DC-4108-B6FC-67D22AE91E7E@conncoll.edu>
	<fc.000f58e500a46b0f3b9aca003c180774.a46b3e@fc.neol.it>
Message-ID: <438455CB.70100@fourthworld.com>

paolo mazza wrote:
> Referring to the selectedChunk property, I  noticed there is a different
> behaviour in Mac and Windows.
> 
> Try this:
> After selecting  a word in a text field  
> if I  press a button with  "put the selectedChunk" 
> in MAC it returs "char 1 to 9 of field 1"
> in windows it returns empty
> 
> The poin is that in MAC it keeps the selection after pressing the button,
> in windows no.
> 
> Is it a bug or what? I transferd exactly the same stack.

Windows provides navigation of all control with the keyboard.  By 
default, most button stypes of their traversalOn property set to true, 
which governs if the control can be traversed with the keyboard (most 
commonly via the Tab key).

The problem you're experiencing is that when you press the button it 
also gets keyboard focus, which takes away the focus from the field.

If you turn off the traversalOn property of the button you should be in 
good shape.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From david at openpartnership.net  Wed Nov 23 06:43:15 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:43:15 +0100
Subject: Living together BUT not married: RR/MC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <4E8FF920-5E65-4A9A-A690-4FF3E82F682D@lexicall.org>
References: <4E8FF920-5E65-4A9A-A690-4FF3E82F682D@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <5E6B29E2-0FDF-417E-9234-4FB984C8BCC4@openpartnership.net>

On 22 Nov 2005, at 21:26, Marielle Lange wrote:

> David Bovill wrote:
>
>> Government contracts do not require that all tools and code used  
>> is open source (I think this would not even be legal).
>
> Unfortunately, this is not clear. I have been in discussion with  
> the guys of this project: http://eduforge.org/projects/exe/. I  
> tried to lure them into using revolution to develop open source.  
> They told me they couldn't because their current contract impose  
> the exclusive use of open source software and tools.

Did a little checking - interesting project!

Unusual policy / reply though? Even SourceForge is fine with allowing  
Revolution based open source projects (I have a couple of such  
projects registered but not used as moving to SVN - SourceForge is  
very slow).

It's a New Zealand based initiative? Also appears to have nothing  
much to do with government funding / contracts? If so it is entirely  
up to them how they set their own membership criteria for projects  
(law doesn't enter into the picture).

As for government based tenders - I have yet to come across one which  
rules out proprietary tools (even in the deliverables) - just an  
indicated preference. Admittedly this is mainly UK / EU based. In my  
discussions with people / funders with regard to this - there was  
some indication that this was because it was considered to fall foul  
of anti-competition laws. There was also a strong suggestion that  
this was largely in response to very strong Microsoft lobbying at EU  
level specifically targeted at minimising the impact of open source  
on government contracts.

Nothing really clear here - just gossip - so don't quote me on it.

But i would be interested in any examples of clear government  
tenders / explicit policies that do insist on only pure open source  
tools being used?

AFAIK this is rarely if ever the case, and if so it comes down to  
marketing / lobbying at the level of the jury. How many "open source  
zealots" are represented, and how well are we able to communicate  
that Revolution can play an important role in effective delivery of  
open source strategies / migration in government sectors? Being able  
to point to a successful open source project in which Revolution  
plays a key development role would swing many of these people.




From david at openpartnership.net  Wed Nov 23 07:15:44 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:15:44 +0100
Subject: Spelling out the license - some geometry handlers
In-Reply-To: <93359CA8-C05F-49B2-9754-94EACE182814@lexicall.org>
References: <93359CA8-C05F-49B2-9754-94EACE182814@lexicall.org>
Message-ID: <D2B6DF53-35BD-49BB-A248-E0AC0F266A5F@openpartnership.net>

On 23 Nov 2005, at 12:36, Marielle Lange wrote:

> Likewise, I don't believe commercial developers are a threat to the  
> open source movement. So why not change the license to Share alike  
> rather than Share alike-Non commercial?

Thanks for the comments - i agree. I have no real strong opinion on  
which flavour of open license to use. That is a separate debate. i  
think you can build good business models around any of them. I posted  
the license as an example - and to raise what I consider to be  
important legal questions regarding the use of content posted to this  
list. This is something I have always thought should be clarified by  
RunRev - and hopefully done so as part of a well thought out open  
content strategy).

Anyway for my part - there is nothing more I can add to this topic. I  
will do my best to support any clearly licensed open content  
initiative supported by this community. 


From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 23 09:22:02 2005
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 06:22:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Spelling out the license - protesting too much
In-Reply-To: <20051123012739.9A1B58251A4@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20051123142202.63996.qmail@web36504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

on Tue, 22 Nov 2005 
Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> So those of us interested in producing FREE software
> should get on and produce it; and include a nice
little
> READ ME document that says something rather like:
> "This is FREE, do with it what you like"
> and those of us who are interested in producing
> software for which they want money should get 
> on and produce it; and include blatant signals 
> that it is UNFREE.

Richmond, if i'm interpreting you correctly,
actually you want to distribute to bulgarian teachers
a development environment, so they will be able to
edit 
and customize your stacks with their own lessons.

IT IS completely possible for you, to create your own
custom
interface with tools, palettes and options.
Notice that many developers had created their own
palettes and plug ins to use in
RunRev/MetaCard/DreamCard:
alain farmer, richard gaskin, chipp walters, klaus
major, 
scott rossi and many more...(maybe including me)

But this custom interface for editing your
stacks will take you many months to build, test and 
get it bug free... 

Do you have the time and resources to build such
interface?

The only limitation for your users is that they will
not
be able to create scripts longer than 10 lines of
code.
But they could insert images, text and graphics.
Save them in a stack and distribute their work for
free...

Actually, i do recommend you to disable completely
the option to put scripts in your free stacks, by
password protecting them.

I do recommend too that you create a custom player
for your stacks, that only plays the stacks produced
by you or your teachers and not any other stacks.

If you real goal is to teach them to program in
RunRev, then Novell and RunRev have already fit
the bill, giving away to Suze Destop users a
full version of Revolution...

Tell me if i'm not interpreting you correctly... ;-)

Have a nice day!

alejandro







Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
__________________________________ 
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From tkuypers at pandora.be  Wed Nov 23 09:45:32 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:45:32 +0100
Subject: Updated FieldsCreator in RevOline
Message-ID: <9075C412-F4AD-4D4A-B5E1-56D79FC82F10@pandora.be>

Hi,

Just to let you know I've updated a little stack named "FieldsCreator".

It is unprotected, change it if you like, I know there must be things  
that can be done better ;-)

It is just a small stack I use a lot, to put fields and corresponding  
labels on a stack.
Use it as a regular stack, or drop it into your plugins folder and  
select it from there.
And as a little bonus, it now is compatible with the Gadget Bar  
plugin... Drop it into the Gadgets Folder and enjoy!

You can find it in RevOnline under "Utilities" or at the user "DMP".



Warm regards,


Ton Kuypers
Digital Media Partners bvba
Tel. +32 (0)477 / 739 530
Fax +32 (0)14 / 71 03 04
http://www.dmp-int.com





From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 23 10:03:54 2005
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 07:03:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Bitwise operations and md4digest function
In-Reply-To: <20051123073435.CEEB9825246@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20051123150355.22094.qmail@web36510.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

i've been porting this md4digest function
from Macromedia Director to Runtime Revolution:
<http://www.isometrik.org/md5/lingo_md4_fastest.txt>

Some differences i had noticed while handling
numbers are:

Numeric Arrays in Director starts from 0 (zero)
Numeric Arrays in Runrev starts from 1 (one)

In Director:
put (24 + 64) / 512 * 16 + 16
results in 16

In RunRev 
put (24 + 64) / 512 * 16 + 16
results in 18.75

To get the same result in RunRev
i had to rewrite the operation like this:
put round((24 + 64)/( 512 * 16)) + 16

More problematic is that bitwise operations
do not return the same results in
Director and Runrev... for example

in Director
put bitAnd(-271733879,-1732584194)
returns -2004318072 

in RunRev
put -271733879 bitand -1732584194
returns 0 (zero)

How could i get the same the result in RunRev as
this bitAnd operation made in Director?

Thanks in advance.

alejandro

Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Thu Nov 17 09:59:21 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:59:21 +0100
Subject: HTML issue
In-Reply-To: <05CD25B6-D66A-4FFB-B7D4-40E84E572D6D@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <OFB642EE1C.269F1A98-ONC12570BC.00524012-C12570BC.00524F58@deutsche-boerse.com>

have you thought about "simply" changing the fields' text forecolor and 
then outputing that to
html?

Im sure you have...

;))

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 17/11/2005 15:56:09:

> Hi Xavier,
> 
> Thanks Xavier,
> You are almost right.
> I prefer this formulation:
> 
>    replace pFind with numToChar(3) && numToChar(27) & quote \
>       & the uPatternColor of this stack & quote & ">" & pFind \
>       & numToChar(244) in tText
> 
> Here I replaced "</font>" with numToChar(244)
> That's more consistent but in fact does not change anything :-)
> pFind is the string the colour of which has to changed.
> The whole thing is a function and pFind a parameter.
> 
> My problem is only that I don't find an more elegant way to do that.
> 
> 
> Le 17 nov. 05 ? 15:45, xavier.bury at clearstream.com a ?crit :
> 
> > Hi Eric
> >
> > I dont see what's wrong...
> >
> > Though you dont need to change the <font and the </Font> tags, you 
> > seem to
> > handle the rest
> > gracefully.
> >
> > Though, i dont see what you want to change, this seems ok looking...
> >
> >>    replace pFind with numToChar(3) && numToChar(27) & quote \
> >>       & the uPatternColor of this stack & quote & ">" & pFind \
> >>       & "</font>" in tText
> >
> > what is pfind? A collection of numtochar(3)&numtochar(8), etc... 
> > that is
> > going to be
> > simplified with:
> >>                   numToChar(3) && numToChar(27) & quote \
> >>       & the uPatternColor of this stack & quote & ">" & pFind \
> >>       & "</font>"
> > ?
> >
> > what seems wrong in my confused mind is
> >
> > you put the text into tText - ok
> > replace the tags - OK
> >
> >  replace pFind with numToChar(3) && numToChar(27) & quote \
> >>       & the uPatternColor of this stack & quote & ">" & pFind \
> >>       & "</font>" in tText
> >
> > and this doesn't seem ok. If you replace pfind (assume no tags in that
> > first pfind string (since you put them after in the replace string),
> > then you're going to have <tags><tags>pfind<tags>
> >
> > or did i read this wrong?
> >
> > cheers
> > Xavier
> >
> > use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 17/11/2005 15:28:20:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I want to change the colour of a string in some styled text.
> >> As the string may be any string like "font", "size", etc. that appear
> >> in html tags,
> >> I use the following code that works but I'm not satisfied with it...
> >> Any more elegant solution?
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >>    put the htmlText of fld "Result" into tText
> >>    -----
> >>    replace "<font" with numToChar(3) in tText
> >>    replace "face=" with numToChar(8) in tText
> >>    replace "size=" with numToChar(9) in tText
> >>    replace "color=" with numToChar(27) in tText
> >>    replace "</font>" with numToChar(244) in tText
> >>    -----
> >>    replace pFind with numToChar(3) && numToChar(27) & quote \
> >>       & the uPatternColor of this stack & quote & ">" & pFind \
> >>       & "</font>" in tText
> >>    -----
> >>    replace numToChar(3) with "<font" in tText
> >>    replace numToChar(8) with "face=" in tText
> >>    replace numToChar(9) with "size=" in tText
> >>    replace numToChar(27) with "color=" in tText
> >>    replace numToChar(244) with "</font>" in tText
> >>    -----
> >>    set the htmlText of fld "Result" to tText
> >>
> >> Best Regards from Paris,
> >>
> >> Eric Chatonet.
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> So Smart Software
> >>
> >> For institutions, companies and associations
> >> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> >> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
> >>
> >> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> >> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> >> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> >> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-revolution mailing list
> >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------
> > To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
> > recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
> > standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.
> >
> > Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
> >
> > IMPORTANT MESSAGE
> >
> > Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
> > International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
> > this message.
> >
> > The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
> > legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you 
> > are
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> > subscription preferences:
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> >
> 
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From stephenAMPEX at barncard.com  Sun Nov 20 12:04:29 2005
From: stephenAMPEX at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 09:04:29 -0800
Subject: ANN: TreeView in Revolution!!
In-Reply-To: <8B7D8883-2D2E-4246-9DD5-5829E13602A1@recursive.ca>
References: <8B7D8883-2D2E-4246-9DD5-5829E13602A1@recursive.ca>
Message-ID: <p06230900bfa65bb24861@[192.168.1.103]>

Luis sent me an update - you didn't catch my follow-up email...

http://upload.barncard.com/TreeV2.6.0.rev.zip

It's all in Spanish, but it's pretty easy to figure out. Well done.
I assume Luis couldn't get or is not allowed to visit the web, hence 
I guess I was elected at random to help him get it out there to the 
Rev community.

He says he doesn't speak English that well, but you could probably 
communicate with him at  darkroll0x001 at yahoo.es


>Hi,
>
>I'm new to Revolution (like today new) and I have to admit that I 
>was a bit surprised that there is no tree view in Revolution. Lack 
>of a tree isn't going to kill me, but it would be nice. I'm also a 
>little surprised that nobody has commented on this post... what am I 
>missing?
>
>At any rate, the URL below doesn't seem to work for me. Is there an 
>alternative URL?
>
>Thanks,
>Bob
>


From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Nov 23 10:37:32 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:37:32 +0000
Subject: Bitwise operations and md4digest function
In-Reply-To: <20051123150355.22094.qmail@web36510.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051123150355.22094.qmail@web36510.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43848CBC.9010807@tweedly.net>

Alejandro Tejada wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>i've been porting this md4digest function
>from Macromedia Director to Runtime Revolution:
><http://www.isometrik.org/md5/lingo_md4_fastest.txt>
>
>Some differences i had noticed while handling
>numbers are:
>
>Numeric Arrays in Director starts from 0 (zero)
>Numeric Arrays in Runrev starts from 1 (one)
>
>In Director:
>put (24 + 64) / 512 * 16 + 16
>results in 16
>
>In RunRev 
>put (24 + 64) / 512 * 16 + 16
>results in 18.75
>
>To get the same result in RunRev
>i had to rewrite the operation like this:
>put round((24 + 64)/( 512 * 16)) + 16
>
>  
>
Right.
Director is using all integer arithmetic, so 88/512 gives 0, multiply by 
16 is still 0, and add 16 is 16.
Rev uses dynamic typing, so 88/512 gives some small fraction, multiply 
by 16 gives 2.75m and add 16 gives you the 18.75

>More problematic is that bitwise operations
>do not return the same results in
>Director and Runrev... for example
>
>in Director
>put bitAnd(-271733879,-1732584194)
>returns -2004318072 
>
>in RunRev
>put -271733879 bitand -1732584194
>returns 0 (zero)
>
>How could i get the same the result in RunRev as
>this bitAnd operation made in Director?
>
>  
>
The problem here is that Rev's bitand operator is defined to work for 
positive numbers only. From the docs:

> Parameters:
> The number1 and number2 are numbers, or expressions that evaluate to 
> numbers, between zero and 4,294,967,295 (2^32 - 1).

Because your values are "less than 0", it gives wrong answer - they 
appear to be < 0 because the top bit is set - the original code probably 
had them defined as unsigned integers (which Director probably doesn't 
support). You can get the right result with

> function mybitand p1, p2
>   if p1 < 0 then  add 2^32 to p1
>   if p2 < 0 then  add 2^32 to p2
>   return p1 bitand p2
> end mybitand

but you may be able to avoid the need for this depending on how the 
input values here are built-up. If they are the results of other bit 
operators, then in Rev it ought to be possible to keep everything as 
positive values, and then just use the standard bitand operator.

If the code isn't too long, I'd be happy to take a look ....

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
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From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Wed Nov 23 11:07:31 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:07:31 -0600
Subject: resumeStack
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123100510.0c815e20@exchange.slg.com>

I'm trying to use resumeStack to bring my app window to the front on Windows.

My main windows do not have title bars, so nothing appears in the Windows 
task bar, so I'm creating a regular window with a title bar to create with 
a location that's off the screen to force an entry.  The problem is, if I 
go to another app and then alt-tab back to my window, resumeStack is not 
always sent.

Has anyone else seen this or dealt with this problem?

Thanks!

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov 23 11:16:56 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:16:56 +0100
Subject: Rev Online Picker 1.0
In-Reply-To: <51155563-5C3E-4BDC-B86E-C27D35DFFCE0@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <51155563-5C3E-4BDC-B86E-C27D35DFFCE0@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <CCC8AD20-F17D-40DC-B004-8E823A4BBC05@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi all,

After the release yesterday of Rev Online Picker, some of you told me  
that the interface was a bit sad...
They will recognise themselves :-)
So I revised it and it looks more smart and fresh, taking the  
opportunity to correct usual mini bugs (display of accentuated vowels  
on Windows for instance).
I hope you will like it (only 32 KB from my website).

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

PS. Did you notice that this utility allows all 2.0 to prior to 2.5  
users accessing Rev Online?

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Wed Nov 23 11:23:06 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:23:06 -0600
Subject: backdrop
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123102206.09824520@exchange.slg.com>

On Windows, is there any way to bring the backdrop to the front (so to 
speak) when you alt tab to your app?  If I open an explorer window and then 
tab back to my app, I wind up with the explorer window between my stack and 
the backdrop.

Thanks!

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov 23 11:25:58 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:25:58 +0100
Subject: resumeStack
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123100510.0c815e20@exchange.slg.com>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123100510.0c815e20@exchange.slg.com>
Message-ID: <7FF03898-AF83-4EC5-BD18-46162E42318E@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Peter,

ResumeStack is sent *within your app environment* to the current card  
when a stack window is brought to the front.
It makes sense when your app displays more than one window *within  
your app environment*.
Resume is sent to the current card when the application is brought to  
the foreground.
In your case, Resume is the right message to trigger :-)

Le 23 nov. 05 ? 17:07, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit :

> I'm trying to use resumeStack to bring my app window to the front  
> on Windows.
>
> My main windows do not have title bars, so nothing appears in the  
> Windows task bar, so I'm creating a regular window with a title bar  
> to create with a location that's off the screen to force an entry.   
> The problem is, if I go to another app and then alt-tab back to my  
> window, resumeStack is not always sent.


Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Nov 23 11:35:32 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:35:32 +0100
Subject: backdrop
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123102206.09824520@exchange.slg.com>
Message-ID: <20051123155450.316BA825024@mail.runrev.com>

Hi Peter

You need to use the "resume" event in the card or stack script (prefered if
you have more than one card).

On resume
  go backdrop ( or show it)
  go back to me
  pass resume -- just in case other apps use it...
  --          -- if the backdrop goes away again,
  --          -- comment this line out...
end resume

since someone is talking about resumestack... it was easy to remember this
event... ;)

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Peter T. Evensen
> Sent: Wednesday, 23 November, 2005 17:23
> To: use-revolution-lists.runrev.com
> Subject: backdrop
> 
> On Windows, is there any way to bring the backdrop to the front (so to
> speak) when you alt tab to your app?  If I open an explorer 
> window and then tab back to my app, I wind up with the 
> explorer window between my stack and the backdrop.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Peter T. Evensen
> http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
> 24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov 23 11:34:37 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:34:37 +0100
Subject: backdrop
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123102206.09824520@exchange.slg.com>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123102206.09824520@exchange.slg.com>
Message-ID: <CE1154DD-3F93-4D74-B514-B307CFECA2CB@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi again Peter,

This a bug: see bugzilla 753, 1021, 1330...
Noted as resolved or cant reproduce...
Hummm :-)

The best way is to run your own :-)
A simple stack the rect of which is the screen rect.
When resuming or if the user clicks on the backdrop, you can reorder  
the windows as you wish.
Not completely satisfying, I know...

Le 23 nov. 05 ? 17:23, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit :

> On Windows, is there any way to bring the backdrop to the front (so  
> to speak) when you alt tab to your app?  If I open an explorer  
> window and then tab back to my app, I wind up with the explorer  
> window between my stack and the backdrop.


Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Wed Nov 23 11:48:08 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:48:08 -0600
Subject: backdrop
In-Reply-To: <CE1154DD-3F93-4D74-B514-B307CFECA2CB@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123102206.09824520@exchange.slg.com>
	<CE1154DD-3F93-4D74-B514-B307CFECA2CB@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123104716.0bdbd4d0@exchange.slg.com>

I was hoping the backdrop would be more robust.  I guess I could roll my 
own as you said.    It seems backdrops are always a pain on Windows.  Wish 
everyone would just use a Mac.

At 10:34 AM 11/23/2005, you wrote:
>Hi again Peter,
>
>This a bug: see bugzilla 753, 1021, 1330...
>Noted as resolved or cant reproduce...
>Hummm :-)
>
>The best way is to run your own :-)
>A simple stack the rect of which is the screen rect.
>When resuming or if the user clicks on the backdrop, you can reorder
>the windows as you wish.
>Not completely satisfying, I know...
>
>Le 23 nov. 05 ? 17:23, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit :
>
>>On Windows, is there any way to bring the backdrop to the front (so
>>to speak) when you alt tab to your app?  If I open an explorer
>>window and then tab back to my app, I wind up with the explorer
>>window between my stack and the backdrop.
>
>
>Best Regards from Paris,
>
>Eric Chatonet.
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>So Smart Software
>
>For institutions, companies and associations
>Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
>Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
>Free plugins and tutorials on my website
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
>Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
>Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
>Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov 23 11:49:50 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:49:50 +0100
Subject: backdrop
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123104716.0bdbd4d0@exchange.slg.com>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123102206.09824520@exchange.slg.com>
	<CE1154DD-3F93-4D74-B514-B307CFECA2CB@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20051123104716.0bdbd4d0@exchange.slg.com>
Message-ID: <8121CCBE-EFB2-453C-A735-B01311BDB3CA@sosmartsoftware.com>

Same problem on Macs :-(

Le 23 nov. 05 ? 17:48, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit :

> I was hoping the backdrop would be more robust.  I guess I could  
> roll my own as you said.    It seems backdrops are always a pain on  
> Windows.  Wish everyone would just use a Mac.


Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Wed Nov 23 11:50:05 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:50:05 -0600
Subject: resumeStack
In-Reply-To: <7FF03898-AF83-4EC5-BD18-46162E42318E@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123100510.0c815e20@exchange.slg.com>
	<7FF03898-AF83-4EC5-BD18-46162E42318E@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123104520.0bdbd0f8@exchange.slg.com>

Well, since I'm alt-tabbing to that off-screen window, it should work, but 
almost 1/2 the time resumeStack doesn't get sent to that stack/card.

Since we're talking about backdrops, I guess I could use the backdrop stack 
that I create as the window with the titlebar.... hmmm.

At 10:25 AM 11/23/2005, you wrote:
>Hi Peter,
>
>ResumeStack is sent *within your app environment* to the current card
>when a stack window is brought to the front.
>It makes sense when your app displays more than one window *within
>your app environment*.
>Resume is sent to the current card when the application is brought to
>the foreground.
>In your case, Resume is the right message to trigger :-)
>
>Le 23 nov. 05 ? 17:07, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit :
>
>>I'm trying to use resumeStack to bring my app window to the front
>>on Windows.
>>
>>My main windows do not have title bars, so nothing appears in the
>>Windows task bar, so I'm creating a regular window with a title bar
>>to create with a location that's off the screen to force an entry.
>>The problem is, if I go to another app and then alt-tab back to my
>>window, resumeStack is not always sent.
>
>
>Best Regards from Paris,
>
>Eric Chatonet.
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>So Smart Software
>
>For institutions, companies and associations
>Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
>Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
>Free plugins and tutorials on my website
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
>Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
>Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
>Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Nov 23 12:32:28 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 18:32:28 +0100
Subject: backdrop
In-Reply-To: <8121CCBE-EFB2-453C-A735-B01311BDB3CA@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <20051123165124.79A1F82508D@mail.runrev.com>

> > I was hoping the backdrop would be more robust.  I guess I could  
> > roll my own as you said.    It seems backdrops are always a 
> pain on  
> > Windows.  Wish everyone would just use a Mac.

wishful thinking the market doesn't seem to share...

try this script in your main stack...

constant backdropfilename="mybackdrop.rev"

on resume
  if there is not a stack backdropfilename then
    open stack backdropfilename -- substack of me
    set the rect of stack backbackdropfilenamedrop to the screenrect
  end if
  go to me
end resume

on suspend
  -- save anything?
  hide stack backdropfilename
end suspend

-- untested but it should work...
Hey, I needed something like this for 
the taoo loader intro booting screen!

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Eric Chatonet
> Sent: Wednesday, 23 November, 2005 17:50
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: backdrop
> 
> Same problem on Macs :-(
> 
> Le 23 nov. 05 ? 17:48, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit :
> 
> > I was hoping the backdrop would be more robust.  I guess I could  
> > roll my own as you said.    It seems backdrops are always a 
> pain on  
> > Windows.  Wish everyone would just use a Mac.
> 
> 
> Best Regards from Paris,
> 
> Eric Chatonet.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> So Smart Software
> 
> For institutions, companies and associations Built-to-order 
> applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
> 
> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From psahores at easynet.fr  Wed Nov 23 13:21:07 2005
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 19:21:07 +0100
Subject: Rev Online Picker 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CCC8AD20-F17D-40DC-B004-8E823A4BBC05@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <51155563-5C3E-4BDC-B86E-C27D35DFFCE0@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<CCC8AD20-F17D-40DC-B004-8E823A4BBC05@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <9A690509-019A-4321-8A5A-681389765485@easynet.fr>

C'est si booooo avec deux touches de bleu !
So nice with some more colour, is'nt ?

Kind Regards from Paris 5e

Le 23 nov. 05 ? 17:16, Eric Chatonet a ?crit :

> Hi all,
>
> After the release yesterday of Rev Online Picker, some of you told  
> me that the interface was a bit sad...
> They will recognise themselves :-)
> So I revised it and it looks more smart and fresh, taking the  
> opportunity to correct usual mini bugs (display of accentuated  
> vowels on Windows for instance).
> I hope you will like it (only 32 KB from my website).

YEEEES ! Thank's Eric :-)
>
> Best Regards from Paris,
>
> Eric Chatonet.
>
> PS. Did you notice that this utility allows all 2.0 to prior to 2.5  
> users accessing Rev Online?
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> So Smart Software
>
> For institutions, companies and associations
> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr
sc+ at +sahores-conseil.com

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

<http://www.sahores-conseil.com/>

WEB/VoD/ACID-DB services over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"




From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com  Wed Nov 23 13:25:38 2005
From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:25:38 -0800
Subject: Meeting at MacWorld SF in January 2006
Message-ID: <20051123182541.720AF7F056@spatula.dreamhost.com>

Hello all,

Im going to MacWorld Expo 2006 in San Francisco in January. It's a great
time to get together if you are going. Id like to sit down with folks who
are developing with Revolution and Valentina, or those of you who would like
to learn more about Valentina.

Anyone else going?

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software, Inc

Joining Worlds of Information

Deploy True Client-Server Database Solutions
Royalty Free with Valentina Developer Network
http://www.paradigmasoft.com





From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Nov 23 13:32:03 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:32:03 -0800
Subject: Polling Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <43843093.9000406@harbourhost.co.uk>
References: <2c1f9da11cd95e2043725b1a78d58014@accommodata.com>
	<f99b52860511221803r73c518dcxb47fb08f8987ac46@mail.gmail.com>
	<4383F2D2.6090609@comcast.net> <43843093.9000406@harbourhost.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1824447535.20051123103203@ahsoftware.net>

Martin-

Wednesday, November 23, 2005, 1:04:19 AM, you wrote:

> <http://www.google.com/apis/index.html>

> for how to sign up for a developer key for the Google APIs. Last I heard
> you get 1000 queries per day, each of which may return max 10 results.

And therein lies the rub. If I, say, create an app that uses the
Google API it's linked to my Google developer id. If I then
distribute that app, my developer id is responsible for *all* those
accumulated queries. If my app becomes wildly popular and 1001 people
use it once in a single day, every single one of those copies will
stop working. AND every other app I have created using my developer id
will also stop working.

It gets worse. If I create a library making it easier to use the
Google api from, say, revolution, then every copy of that library is
linked to *my* developer id. And every use of that library counts
against not just me, but any app that has been created using my id.

It's the sort of tech support nightmare that shied me away from ever
wanting to sign up for the developer program. I actually have valid
reasons for wanting to use the api in a couple of applications, but
those restrictions would kill them.

I'd have to make sure that nobody used the apps in order to ensure
that they worked...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From frny4x at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 23 13:50:41 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:50:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MIDI
Message-ID: <20051123185041.7760.qmail@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm new to Rev/Dreamcard - day 1, actually.  I'm evaluating it for a MIDI project.
  Can anyone point me towards any MIDI playback examples?  [Not just playback of a file, but playback and looping of sections of a file.]
  I see a MIDI stack among the tutorial videos, but I haven't found that stack anywhere yet.
   
  Thank you.
   
  Frank


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Nov 23 14:05:38 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 20:05:38 +0100
Subject: MIDI
In-Reply-To: <20051123185041.7760.qmail@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20051123182407.6691A82503E@mail.runrev.com>

Hi Frank

I hope you have quicktime installed already...

Just create a player control from the rev palette and 
set the player's filename or path to the midi file's using
the object property inspector.

or scripting

create a player 
create a button with this script

answer file "Choose a midi file"
if there is a file it then -- limited check...
  -- is it really midi?
  set the path of player 1 to filepath 
end if

click on play in the player...

or script the player with

on mouseup
  play me
end mouseup

-- I admit I haven't tried this script but it would be cool if it did work
;)
Anyway, lookup the rev documentation for player and it's many features,
you'll see lots of cool things...

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Frank R
> Sent: Wednesday, 23 November, 2005 19:51
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: MIDI
> 
> I'm new to Rev/Dreamcard - day 1, actually.  I'm evaluating 
> it for a MIDI project.
>   Can anyone point me towards any MIDI playback examples?  
> [Not just playback of a file, but playback and looping of 
> sections of a file.]
>   I see a MIDI stack among the tutorial videos, but I haven't 
> found that stack anywhere yet.
>    
>   Thank you.
>    
>   Frank
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed Nov 23 14:00:47 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:00:47 -0600
Subject: resumeStack
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123100510.0c815e20@exchange.slg.com>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123100510.0c815e20@exchange.slg.com>
Message-ID: <4384BC5F.7080603@hyperactivesw.com>

Peter T. Evensen wrote:
> I'm trying to use resumeStack to bring my app window to the front on 
> Windows.
> 
> My main windows do not have title bars, so nothing appears in the 
> Windows task bar, so I'm creating a regular window with a title bar to 
> create with a location that's off the screen to force an entry.  The 
> problem is, if I go to another app and then alt-tab back to my window, 
> resumeStack is not always sent.
> 
> Has anyone else seen this or dealt with this problem?

I haven't, but try "resume" instead of "resumestack" and see if that 
works. "Resume" works at the application level.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov 23 14:14:00 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:14:00 -0800
Subject: backdrop
In-Reply-To: <8121CCBE-EFB2-453C-A735-B01311BDB3CA@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123102206.09824520@exchange.slg.com>
	<CE1154DD-3F93-4D74-B514-B307CFECA2CB@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20051123104716.0bdbd4d0@exchange.slg.com>
	<8121CCBE-EFB2-453C-A735-B01311BDB3CA@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <BF911F52-F3F7-4711-A21A-61D1FF6314EB@danshafer.com>

In fact, backdrop is just broken. I wish they'd take it out of the  
product or fix it. It hasn't worked right from the beginning. It is  
tantalizing because if it worked it would be so convenient and useful  
but it just doesn't work.

When I finally realized that and stopped using it, I began losing  
(slightly) less hair.

On Nov 23, 2005, at 8:49 AM, Eric Chatonet wrote:

> Same problem on Macs :-(
>
> Le 23 nov. 05 ? 17:48, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit :
>
>> I was hoping the backdrop would be more robust.  I guess I could  
>> roll my own as you said.    It seems backdrops are always a pain  
>> on Windows.  Wish everyone would just use a Mac.
>
>
> Best Regards from Paris,
>
> Eric Chatonet.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> So Smart Software
>
> For institutions, companies and associations
> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov 23 14:19:11 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:19:11 -0800
Subject: Meeting at MacWorld SF in January 2006
In-Reply-To: <20051123182541.720AF7F056@spatula.dreamhost.com>
References: <20051123182541.720AF7F056@spatula.dreamhost.com>
Message-ID: <D57F37B6-CB70-4C6C-99CB-B9862741FAD1@danshafer.com>

I'll up the ante one cent and suggest we plan a BOF for Rev  
developers, Valentina or not. I'll be going, though I'm not yet  
certain which dates.


On Nov 23, 2005, at 10:25 AM, Lynn Fredricks wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Im going to MacWorld Expo 2006 in San Francisco in January. It's a  
> great
> time to get together if you are going. Id like to sit down with  
> folks who
> are developing with Revolution and Valentina, or those of you who  
> would like
> to learn more about Valentina.
>
> Anyone else going?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Wed Nov 23 14:45:39 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:45:39 -0600
Subject: Ok, I should know this
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123134454.02be8538@exchange.slg.com>

But how do you tell if a player is currently playing?  The doc says 
playRate is 0 if it is paused, but it always comes back 1, even if the 
movie is paused.

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Wed Nov 23 14:46:05 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:46:05 -0800
Subject: Meeting at MacWorld SF in January 2006
In-Reply-To: <D57F37B6-CB70-4C6C-99CB-B9862741FAD1@danshafer.com>
References: <20051123182541.720AF7F056@spatula.dreamhost.com>
	<D57F37B6-CB70-4C6C-99CB-B9862741FAD1@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <17CD1402-8022-4FD8-AAA4-E6D91943B25E@mangomultimedia.com>

On Nov 23, 2005, at 11:19 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> I'll up the ante one cent and suggest we plan a BOF for Rev  
> developers, Valentina or not. I'll be going, though I'm not yet  
> certain which dates.

That sounds like a good idea.  I'm not sure if I'm making the trip up  
north yet or not, but if there was a BOF for Rev that would probably  
tip the scales in favor of going.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com  Wed Nov 23 14:46:59 2005
From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:46:59 -0800
Subject: Meeting at MacWorld SF in January 2006
In-Reply-To: <D57F37B6-CB70-4C6C-99CB-B9862741FAD1@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <20051123194703.4AA1B7F056@spatula.dreamhost.com>

> I'll up the ante one cent and suggest we plan a BOF for Rev 
> developers, Valentina or not. I'll be going, though I'm not 
> yet certain which dates.

Good idea, Dan. Would you be up to helping to organize it?

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software, Inc

Joining Worlds of Information

Deploy True Client-Server Database Solutions
Royalty Free with Valentina Developer Network
http://www.paradigmasoft.com



> On Nov 23, 2005, at 10:25 AM, Lynn Fredricks wrote:
> 
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Im going to MacWorld Expo 2006 in San Francisco in January. It's a 
> > great time to get together if you are going. Id like to sit 
> down with 
> > folks who are developing with Revolution and Valentina, or those of 
> > you who would like to learn more about Valentina.
> >
> > Anyone else going?
> 
> 
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author 
> http://www.shafermedia.com Get my book, "Revolution: Software 
> at the Speed of Thought"
>  From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
> 
> 
> 




From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Wed Nov 23 14:48:16 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:48:16 -0800
Subject: Ok, I should know this
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123134454.02be8538@exchange.slg.com>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123134454.02be8538@exchange.slg.com>
Message-ID: <40D5B213-0B45-4F06-8706-30141DF1A5A1@mangomultimedia.com>

On Nov 23, 2005, at 11:45 AM, Peter T. Evensen wrote:

> But how do you tell if a player is currently playing?  The doc says  
> playRate is 0 if it is paused, but it always comes back 1, even if  
> the movie is paused.

Check the paused property.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From dam-pro.girard at laposte.net  Sun Nov 27 14:58:02 2005
From: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net (Girard Damien)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 20:58:02 +0100
Subject: A new funny runrev bug under linux
Message-ID: <1133121482.3661.1.camel@White-Side.Workgroup>

Hi all,

I found a new runrev bug under linux. With Revolution 2.6.1

http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3237

If you have got also this bug, please confirm the bug report.

Thanks.

Damien Girard
Email: dam-pro.girard at laposte.net



From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Wed Nov 23 14:53:13 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:53:13 -0600
Subject: Ok, I should know this
In-Reply-To: <40D5B213-0B45-4F06-8706-30141DF1A5A1@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123134454.02be8538@exchange.slg.com>
	<40D5B213-0B45-4F06-8706-30141DF1A5A1@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123135217.14d447d0@exchange.slg.com>

I just found the paused property.  Thanks!

It looks like the doc for playRate is incorrect.

At 01:48 PM 11/23/2005, you wrote:
>On Nov 23, 2005, at 11:45 AM, Peter T. Evensen wrote:
>
>>But how do you tell if a player is currently playing?  The doc says
>>playRate is 0 if it is paused, but it always comes back 1, even if
>>the movie is paused.
>
>Check the paused property.

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Wed Nov 23 14:51:03 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 14:51:03 -0500
Subject: What Richmond wants to do.
Message-ID: <web-339544317@mail.maclaunch.com>

Obviously I have not explained myself clearly as at least
one contributor to this list has got my intentions badly
wrong.

1. I AM at present making programs for content delivery and
reinforcement for English as a Foreign Language classes I
will be teaching to 6-8 year-old Bulgarians in my own
private language school from February. These programs are
being designed on a Mac using my licensed version of DC
2.6.1 they will then be transferred onto 6 Pentium 3s
running Ubuntu Linux 5.10 and converted into standalones
using the Novell RR 2.2.1. These programs will be
uneditable and will stay on my Linux boxes.

2. What I WANT to do is release these programs as FREEWARE
to Linux users world-wide to help children in nations that
for one reason or another have become parasitic on the rich
'Western' countries get ahead so that they can help their
countries pull themselves together and stop parasitising on
the 'West'. Any programs (standalones) I release will have
all constituent stacks passworded so (I hope) nobody will
bother to crack them open.

3. What I also WANT to do is offer FREE classes to a few
Bulgarian school teachers in RR - I will teach them using
the Novell RR 2.2.1 on my Ubuntu boxes in my language
school out of normal school hours.

4. WHAT I DO NOT WANT TO DO:

IS develop a 'Richmond Revolution' development environment
consisting of a few 'fluffy features' I have designed
sitting on top of years of hard work by Hypercard, Metacard
and Runtime Revolution developers.

I have a sufficient income to maintain my family in a way
which we feel is really very comfortable without having to
'RIP OFF' Runtime Revolution!

I hope that in due course some of my efforts in respect of
FREE RR classes to teachers here in Bulgaria will have both
a positive effect re Bulgarian education, and as far as
Runtime Revolution itself is concerned.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Wed Nov 23 15:00:34 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:00:34 -0500
Subject: Identifying objects by their tooltips
Message-ID: <web-339544701@mail.maclaunch.com>

Personally I find that tooltips are not very useful - and
have yet to get them to display Cyrillic.

Therefore they serve me very well for group / class
identifications

AND, thanks to Xavier (MC use-group list) I can hide them
away:

set the toolTipDelay to 0

and, at the moment I am spending most of my hours preparing
my classroom (plaster, paint, electrical sockets, and so
on), running up and down the road to Sofia to obtain
various odd licences, and bashing out 'BROWN COW' programs
(Primary level English); so my learning Custom Props will
have to wait until my Summer holidays.

sincerely, Richmond

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From frny4x at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 23 15:11:57 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:11:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Web apps
Message-ID: <20051123201157.6659.qmail@web32807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Has the company ever spoken about any plans for using this - extremely interesting - development platform for web app development?
   
  Frank


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov 23 15:18:55 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:18:55 +0100
Subject: Ok, I should know this
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123135217.14d447d0@exchange.slg.com>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123134454.02be8538@exchange.slg.com>
	<40D5B213-0B45-4F06-8706-30141DF1A5A1@mangomultimedia.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20051123135217.14d447d0@exchange.slg.com>
Message-ID: <3CEDF78A-96B6-40A2-83F1-5044A8BC6255@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Peter,

The docs for playRate are correct:
If the playRate is zero, the movie or sound *appears* paused.
That's true.
Play Rate monitors the speed backward and forward.
Zero is consistent: it *pauses* the movie/sound.
But it does nor means that the player is paused, it just means that  
its playing speed is zero.
Then you have to check the paused property to know if the status is  
due to a playrate set to 0 or to a *real* pause.
If the movie/sound is paused and the playRate set to 0, the play  
command will do nothing:
The playRate property takes precedence over the play/pause commands.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 23 nov. 05 ? 20:53, Peter T. Evensen a ?crit :

> I just found the paused property.  Thanks!
>
> It looks like the doc for playRate is incorrect.
>
> At 01:48 PM 11/23/2005, you wrote:
>> On Nov 23, 2005, at 11:45 AM, Peter T. Evensen wrote:
>>
>>> But how do you tell if a player is currently playing?  The doc says
>>> playRate is 0 if it is paused, but it always comes back 1, even if
>>> the movie is paused.
>>
>> Check the paused property.

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov 23 15:26:01 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:26:01 +0100
Subject: Identifying objects by their tooltips
In-Reply-To: <web-339544701@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339544701@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <7D4233CE-18DE-4C9C-89A4-F718F697F5B3@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Mathewson,

Le 23 nov. 05 ? 21:00, Mathewson a ?crit :

> Personally I find that tooltips are not very useful - and
> have yet to get them to display Cyrillic.

Sure for Cyrillic but I know many users of my software who are very  
satisfied and reassured when finding relevant tooltips :-)

<snip>

> so my learning Custom Props will
> have to wait until my Summer holidays.

Such a waste of time is a pity (as for custom props of course :-)

Friendly,
Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From martyknapp at comcast.net  Wed Nov 23 15:39:31 2005
From: martyknapp at comcast.net (Marty Knapp)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:39:31 -0800
Subject: Polling Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <1824447535.20051123103203@ahsoftware.net>
References: <2c1f9da11cd95e2043725b1a78d58014@accommodata.com>	<f99b52860511221803r73c518dcxb47fb08f8987ac46@mail.gmail.com>	<4383F2D2.6090609@comcast.net>
	<43843093.9000406@harbourhost.co.uk>
	<1824447535.20051123103203@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <4384D382.6030805@comcast.net>


>>for how to sign up for a developer key for the Google APIs. Last I heard
>>you get 1000 queries per day, each of which may return max 10 results.
>>    
>>
>
>And therein lies the rub. If I, say, create an app that uses the
>Google API it's linked to my Google developer id. If I then
>distribute that app, my developer id is responsible for *all* those
>accumulated queries. If my app becomes wildly popular and 1001 people
>use it once in a single day, every single one of those copies will
>stop working. AND every other app I have created using my developer id
>will also stop working.
>  
>

I'm building an app that helps me analyze keyword data (like from 
WordTracker). Since I probably can't automate further research, I 
thought that a least a double click on a specific keyword could launch a 
browser and do a search engine query (whether Google, MSN, or whatever). 
I did a search, then copied the resulting URL, went back to Rev, 
modified the search string so that I could insert my keyword phrase and 
used the revGoURL command to run it. It worked, but then I tried a 
couple of different browsers to compare the URLs that are generated from 
a search and found them to be different;

 From Mac IE (my default browser): 
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=funny+bumper+stickers
 From Safari: 
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=funny+bumper+stickers&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

And from IE on my PC it was different that either of these! I tried 
deleting parts of the url only to break it. What I'd like is a generic 
search query that would open the user's default browser. When I switch 
my default browser to Safari the first query works, and works on my PC, 
but I'm curious as to the differences.

Hopefully this isnt a violation of googles terms . . .


Marty


From frny4x at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 23 15:51:05 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:51:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MIDI Builder stack
Message-ID: <20051123205105.88096.qmail@web32811.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I see references in past posts about a demo MIDI Builder stack that comes with the product, and, again, I see it among the videos.  I Still can't find this stack anywhere.
  Can anyone help me with a link to the stack?  I'd appreciate it.
   
  Regards,
  Frank
   
  Happy Thanksgiving from a new guy on the block


From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 23 16:15:28 2005
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:15:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Bitwise operations and md4digest
In-Reply-To: <20051123180003.846848250DA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20051123211528.76973.qmail@web36504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Alex,

> If the code isn't too long, I'd be happy to take a
> look ....

Many thanks! :-)
i've put the references for this md4 code
in this compressed file:

<http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/md4.zip>

it contains source code for lingo
and javascript, results from tracing 
lingo code (with the actual values from
variables) and the stack i'm working with.

Thanks in advance!

al


Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From shaosean at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 23 16:23:03 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 16:23:03 -0500
Subject: Spelling out the license - protesting too much 
In-Reply-To: <20051123144709.A5F11824FB2@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-F7068F3BA02151513EFA2FC3550@phx.gbl>

Well I've stated in the source code that no license is needed from me to use 
the libraries, but if anyone feels that I may hinder their commercial 
program(s) please note that I won't (I'm not in this to make money, I code 
purely for fun)..

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



From shaosean at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 23 16:26:03 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 16:26:03 -0500
Subject: Bitwise operations and md4digest function
In-Reply-To: <20051123144709.A5F11824FB2@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-F179D5358F2FBA3F55B2EB2C3550@phx.gbl>

Alejandro, if you are using Rev 2.5.x or lower, Rev can't do any math with 
numbers larger than 0xFFFFFFF (7 F's) Rev 2.6 and greater can (I don't know 
the limits as I only needed 0xFFFFFFFF (8 F's))  I'm having similiar 
problems with bit math and am looking at rolling my own..

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee? 
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963



From michaell at unimelb.edu.au  Wed Nov 23 18:10:54 2005
From: michaell at unimelb.edu.au (Michael J. Lew)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 09:10:54 +1000
Subject: Spelling out the license - protesting too much
Message-ID: <p05200f49bfaa9f5abb85@[128.250.229.137]>

At 8:47 AM -0600 23/11/05, David Bovill wrote:

>To avoid list clutter it would be a simple
>policy to add a license url to the default email header, and to add a
>EULA to the email list sign up process - that way everyone is clear
>what the terms of posting code to the list are.

I can't let that comment go without putting my oar in. Do not mislead 
yourself into thinking that a sign up EULA would make anyone clear 
what the terms of posting code to the list are.

EULAs are most often simply agreed to by the users without being 
read. I am constantly amazed that anyone is prepared to kid 
themselves that EULAs should be legally enforceable. It may make 
legal systems work smoothly to uphold a fiction that people read, 
understand and agree to the terms in EULAs, but it is simply untrue 
in the majority of cases. EULAs are most often simply agreed to by 
the users without being read.

Last week I bought a fire-wire cable for my iPod at an Apple dealer 
in Melbourne, Next Byte. I paid for it, put it into my backpack and 
started to leave, but the salesman rushed to stop me and asked that I 
sign long cash register docket that included "I hereby accept the 
terms and conditions..." There were five terms and conditions on the 
front of the docket and 14 on the back, including one that uses 
"effect" when the clear intention is "affect". There was no pretence 
that I should read the terms and conditions prior to signing my 
assent. A contract for purchasing a fire-wire cable? Bloody hell, 
we've gone mad! I signed it (without reading it) because I wanted the 
docket as a curio, but I dare say it will simply be the first of many 
that I am expected to sign.

The docket says repeatedly that "Full terms and conditions can be 
found on www.nextbyte.com.au." Does that imply that there are more? I 
couldn't find any on that website... In Australia purchasers have a 
number of statutory rights that can not be waived. Many contracts of 
sale attempt, knowingly or not, to bypass, diminish or distract from 
those rights. Item 7.4 of the terms and conditions is that "The 
customer has not relied upon any representation made by Next Byte or 
upon the skill and judgement of Next Byte...", so even if you did, 
you didn't (even if you think you did because you didn't read the 
document that says you didn't. It sounds like something that Donald 
Rumsfeld might enjoy.

In my opinion a document or EULA that is proffered for a signature 
with no expectation that both parties know and understand the 
contents should be as legally enforceable as toilet paper. Maybe I'm 
a dummy.

Regards,
-- 
Michael J. Lew

Senior Lecturer
Department of Pharmacology
The University of Melbourne
Parkville 3010
Victoria
Australia

Phone +613 8344 8304

**
New email address: michaell at unimelb.edu.au
**


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Nov 23 17:20:28 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 14:20:28 -0800
Subject: Spelling out the license - protesting too much
In-Reply-To: <p05200f49bfaa9f5abb85@[128.250.229.137]>
References: <p05200f49bfaa9f5abb85@[128.250.229.137]>
Message-ID: <4384EB2C.9000308@fourthworld.com>

Michael J. Lew wrote:
> At 8:47 AM -0600 23/11/05, David Bovill wrote:
> 
>> To avoid list clutter it would be a simple
>> policy to add a license url to the default email header, and to add a
>> EULA to the email list sign up process - that way everyone is clear
>> what the terms of posting code to the list are.
> 
> I can't let that comment go without putting my oar in. Do not mislead 
> yourself into thinking that a sign up EULA would make anyone clear what 
> the terms of posting code to the list are.

Even more to the point, in the US and elsewhere the author owns her 
words regardless whether the medium is a book or a discussion list; any 
EULA from RunRev regarding the content authors contribute to this list 
would be irrelevant for all but the few posts made here by RunRev folks.

It would be a shame if this useful desire for clarity took a dark turn 
and prompted RunRev to implement one of those silly draconian TOSes like 
we see on AOL and elsewhere about how posting here obliterates all of 
your rights and grants total control of your words to the list owner.

There's certainly nothing requiring anything so drastic, so long as we 
don't demand that RunRev come up with a single EULA to govern the words 
of a thousand subscribers.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Nov 23 17:30:02 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 14:30:02 -0800
Subject: Meeting at MacWorld SF in January 2006
In-Reply-To: <D57F37B6-CB70-4C6C-99CB-B9862741FAD1@danshafer.com>
References: <20051123182541.720AF7F056@spatula.dreamhost.com>
	<D57F37B6-CB70-4C6C-99CB-B9862741FAD1@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <10018726347.20051123143002@ahsoftware.net>

Dan-

Wednesday, November 23, 2005, 11:19:11 AM, you wrote:

> I'll up the ante one cent and suggest we plan a BOF for Rev  
> developers, Valentina or not. I'll be going, though I'm not yet  
> certain which dates.

If we're going to do an evening thing, I'd prefer Tuesday or
Wednesday, since I can't make it any other evening that week. I should
say, though, that I tried to set up a BOF last year through IDG, but
got absolutely no response.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk  Wed Nov 23 17:29:25 2005
From: mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:29:25 +0000
Subject: Polling Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <1824447535.20051123103203@ahsoftware.net>
References: <2c1f9da11cd95e2043725b1a78d58014@accommodata.com>
	<f99b52860511221803r73c518dcxb47fb08f8987ac46@mail.gmail.com>
	<4383F2D2.6090609@comcast.net> <43843093.9000406@harbourhost.co.uk>
	<1824447535.20051123103203@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <4384ED45.1010904@harbourhost.co.uk>

Mark Wieder wrote:
> Martin-
> 
> Wednesday, November 23, 2005, 1:04:19 AM, you wrote:
> 
> 
>><http://www.google.com/apis/index.html>
> 
> 
>>for how to sign up for a developer key for the Google APIs. Last I heard
>>you get 1000 queries per day, each of which may return max 10 results.
> 
> 
> And therein lies the rub. If I, say, create an app that uses the
> Google API it's linked to my Google developer id. If I then
> distribute that app, my developer id is responsible for *all* those
> accumulated queries. If my app becomes wildly popular and 1001 people
> use it once in a single day, every single one of those copies will
> stop working. AND every other app I have created using my developer id
> will also stop working.
> 

Indeed Mark, I believe there has to be a practical use for it but don't 
ask me what. I've never found an excuse to use it partly because of the 
issue you mention and also partly because I can start to twitch 
uncontrollably, roll my eyes and grind my teeth when I read a sentence 
containing the acronym "SOAP" (It's entirely irrational I admit).

I think that the distributable apps that have been built on it generally 
require the user to get their own developer account in order to get 
around this issue. The user then enters their own developer key to use 
the app. But that is quite limiting in itself. The app would need to be 
a bit more substantial than a gimmick before most people would bother, 
and as far as I know no-one has made anything earth-shattering with it. 
I think I've seen it used in web pages here and there but can't recall 
an actual example at the moment.

Martin


From wdesmet at wanadoo.nl  Wed Nov 23 17:37:01 2005
From: wdesmet at wanadoo.nl (William de Smet)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 23:37:01 +0100
Subject: How to force a true TXT extension?
Message-ID: <A835EBEB-835D-422F-9E9C-0F91DE341F28@wanadoo.nl>

Hi there,

Been busy for a while with my little program and ran into the  
following problem:
The user can save a file with a .TXT extension and with Windows XP  
the dialog box shows the suggested *.TXT as filename.
When deleting or overwriting the suggested name (without extension)  
the saved file is not recognized as a .TXT file.

How can I force a true .TXT extension (even when deleting the  
suggested name)?

I use the following code:
on mouseUp
ask file "Bewaar woordenlijst als:" with "*.TXT"
   put field "woorden_uit" into URL ("file:" & it)
   answer "De woordenlijst is bewaard!"
end mouseUp

Thanks!

William de Smet

From jhurley at infostations.com  Wed Nov 23 18:07:29 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:07:29 -0800
Subject: OT Last week's CarTalk puzzler
In-Reply-To: <20051123180003.846848250DA@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051123180003.846848250DA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p0623090cbfaaa1724886@[69.85.158.172]>

For those of you who find beauty in mathematics.

Below is this week's CarTalk puzzle. (A National Public Radio program 
on cars and car repair, hence this beautiful puzzle in number 
theory--don't ask.)

At first I didn't believe Ray theorem (below), so I used Run Rev to 
at least confirm his hypothesis: All numbers with an odd number of 
factors is a perfect square, i.e. the square of an integer, 1, 4, 9 
16, etc. As an example: 16 has as factors, 1, 2, 4, 8 and 16. There 
are 5 factors, an odd number. This implies that the 16'th bulb will 
be switch an odd number of times and therefore will be off if 
initially on, and on if initially off.

Sure enough a little repeat loop shows that the theorem is true. To 
prove it you may find the fundamental theorem of arithmetic helpful, 
i.e. Every integer may be uniquely represented as a product of prime 
numbers.

(20,000 is just an arbitrarily large number.)

Jim


PUZZLER: The Hall of 20,000 Ceiling Lights
There are 20,000 lights on. A person comes through and pulls the cord 
on every second light. A third person comes along and pulls the cord 
on every third light, etc. When someone comes who pulls every 
20,000th chain, which lights are on?

Their solution(?):

The Hall of 20,000 Ceiling Lights
RAY: Let's number all the lights and pick one at random.

TOM: How about 26?

RAY: OK, let's look at light number 26 and figure out if it's going 
to be on or off. All we need to know are the factors of the number 
26. Well what's a factor? A factor is a whole number that will divide 
evenly into another number, with nothing leftover.

So, the factors of 26 are 1, 26, 13 and 2.

Here's why that's important. It tells us that light number 26 is 
going to get its chain pulled four times.

TOM: How did you figure that out?

RAY: Well, when every cord gets pulled it gets turned on, right? 
Light number 26 gets its cord pulled again at 2, which is a factor of 
26.

When every 13th chain gets pulled, light number 26 gets turned on 
again. And it doesn't get touched again until 26, when it gets turned 
off forever.

Now it's pretty obvious then that every bulb that has an even number 
of factors will eventually get turned off for good.

So, which lamps remain on? All those represented by a number with an 
odd number of factors. And those are, are you ready for this? Light 
bulbs 1, 4, 9, 16, 25, 36, etc.

All those numbers are called perfect squares. And only they have an 
odd number of factors, because one of the factors is the square root 
of the number in question. For example, nine has three factors, 1 and 
9 and 3.  [I confess, I can't see how this follows. Jim]

Do we have a winner?

TOM: We do have a winner and the winner this week is Laurie Warner 
from Greer, South Carolina. And for having her answer selected at 
random from among all the correct answers that we got Laurie gets a 
26 dollar gift certificate to the Shameless Commerce Division at Car 
Talk.com, with which she can pick up our new best and second best of 
Car Talk CD pack.

From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Nov 23 18:26:32 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 23:26:32 +0000
Subject: Bitwise operations and md4digest function
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-F179D5358F2FBA3F55B2EB2C3550@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY105-F179D5358F2FBA3F55B2EB2C3550@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4384FAA8.9060905@tweedly.net>

Sean Shao wrote:

> Alejandro, if you are using Rev 2.5.x or lower, Rev can't do any math 
> with numbers larger than 0xFFFFFFF (7 F's) Rev 2.6 and greater can (I 
> don't know the limits as I only needed 0xFFFFFFFF (8 F's))  I'm having 
> similiar problems with bit math and am looking at rolling my own..
>
It can do some arithmetic above 0xFFFFFFF (7 Fs)

For instance, in 2.5 and 2.2.1 I can do

 put format("%x", 2^31 + 5)     ---->   80000005
(i.e. it has successfully taken an addition into the range above INT32)

or even
   put format("%08x %u", 2^32 / 2^30, 2^32 / 2^30)   --->  00000004  4

I'd be interested to hear what things you had trouble with ...

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/176 - Release Date: 20/11/2005



From tkuypers at pandora.be  Wed Nov 23 19:39:47 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 01:39:47 +0100
Subject: How to force a true TXT extension?
In-Reply-To: <A835EBEB-835D-422F-9E9C-0F91DE341F28@wanadoo.nl>
References: <A835EBEB-835D-422F-9E9C-0F91DE341F28@wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <DFED4DF7-41B5-4BDE-96A1-7FF2AD305D8D@pandora.be>

William,

Try this, it also traps when the user clicks on "Cancel"...

ON mouseUp
     ask file "Bewaar woordenlijst als:" with "*.TXT"
     IF it = empty THEN exit mouseup
     put it into vUserChoice
     IF char -4 to -1 of vUserChoice <> ".TXT" THEN put ".TXT" after  
vUserChoice
     put field "woorden_uit" into URL ("file:" & vUserChoice)
     answer "De woordenlijst is bewaard!"
END mouseUp


Succes!

Ton Kuypers
Digital Media Partners bvba
Tel. +32 (0)477 / 739 530
Fax +32 (0)14 / 71 03 04
http://www.dmp-int.com



On 23-nov-05, at 23:37, William de Smet wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> Been busy for a while with my little program and ran into the  
> following problem:
> The user can save a file with a .TXT extension and with Windows XP  
> the dialog box shows the suggested *.TXT as filename.
> When deleting or overwriting the suggested name (without extension)  
> the saved file is not recognized as a .TXT file.
>
> How can I force a true .TXT extension (even when deleting the  
> suggested name)?
>
> I use the following code:
> on mouseUp
> ask file "Bewaar woordenlijst als:" with "*.TXT"
>   put field "woorden_uit" into URL ("file:" & it)
>   answer "De woordenlijst is bewaard!"
> end mouseUp
>
> Thanks!
>
> William de Smet
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From robertum at brturbo.com  Wed Nov 23 20:25:52 2005
From: robertum at brturbo.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 23:25:52 -0200
Subject: A new funny runrev bug under linux
Message-ID: <438516A0.9070703@brturbo.com>

Damien:

 >Runrev crash when I put a "!" in a button name

 >I found a new runrev bug under linux. With Revolution 2.6.1
 >http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3237
 >If you have got also this bug, please confirm the bug report.


Under Ubuntu Linux, such a button NAME also causes RR to crash, but not 
if the "!" is only included in the LABEL.

I would never have thought of using a character like that in the actual 
name of the button.

But I agree that Rev shouldn't crash as a result of it. In practice, 
though, shis shouldn't be a problem. You can choose a less exotic name 
for the button.



From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Nov 23 21:09:40 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 02:09:40 +0000
Subject: Bitwise operations and md4digest function
In-Reply-To: <4384FAA8.9060905@tweedly.net>
References: <BAY105-F179D5358F2FBA3F55B2EB2C3550@phx.gbl>
	<4384FAA8.9060905@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <438520E4.9050809@tweedly.net>

Alex Tweedly wrote:

> It can do some arithmetic above 0xFFFFFFF (7 Fs)
>
> For instance, in 2.5 and 2.2.1 I can do
>
> put format("%x", 2^31 + 5)     ---->   80000005
> (i.e. it has successfully taken an addition into the range above INT32)
>
> or even
>   put format("%08x %u", 2^32 / 2^30, 2^32 / 2^30)   --->  00000004  4
>
> I'd be interested to hear what things you had trouble with ...
>
Not to worry - I found some that fail, so I'm now "happy" to not use it.
Haven't figured out the pattern yet - but have found enough to convince 
me it's not usable without great care - and possible not even *with* care.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/176 - Release Date: 20/11/2005



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Wed Nov 23 21:19:31 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:19:31 -0500
Subject: OT Last week's CarTalk puzzler
In-Reply-To: <p0623090cbfaaa1724886@[69.85.158.172]>
References: <20051123180003.846848250DA@mail.runrev.com>
	<p0623090cbfaaa1724886@[69.85.158.172]>
Message-ID: <51A8F1BE-8874-493D-888F-0668BC162A59@conncoll.edu>


On Nov 23, 2005, at 6:07 PM, Jim Hurley wrote:

>
> All those numbers are called perfect squares. And only they have an  
> odd number of factors, because one of the factors is the square  
> root of the number in question. For example, nine has three  
> factors, 1 and 9 and 3.  [I confess, I can't see how this follows.  
> Jim]


Well, because 9 has four factors -- 1, 3, 3, and 9 -- two of which  
are assigned to the same chain-puller, who however only pulls the  
chain once.

Charles



From revdan at danshafer.com  Wed Nov 23 21:36:01 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 18:36:01 -0800
Subject: Meeting at MacWorld SF in January 2006
In-Reply-To: <10018726347.20051123143002@ahsoftware.net>
References: <20051123182541.720AF7F056@spatula.dreamhost.com>
	<D57F37B6-CB70-4C6C-99CB-B9862741FAD1@danshafer.com>
	<10018726347.20051123143002@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <0FFA0F66-E185-4203-80E4-05E15C74378B@danshafer.com>

And if we get that same result this year, I bet someone will set up  
an offsite BOF. Who needs IDG?

Dan

On Nov 23, 2005, at 2:30 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> I should
> say, though, that I tried to set up a BOF last year through IDG, but
> got absolutely no response.



From shaosean at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 23 21:45:11 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:45:11 -0500
Subject: Spelling out the license - protesting too much
In-Reply-To: <20051123213538.11B4A825021@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-F4BC24C288D1FE7698403CC3540@phx.gbl>

A legal document that you sign is legally binding whether you read it or not 
(hence the reason I read everything I sign and refuse to sign almost 
everything ;-) )

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Nov 23 23:01:19 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:01:19 -0600
Subject: Spelling out the license - protesting too much
In-Reply-To: <DA4B9B85-3264-4DDE-8DE8-A8359E1FA6F1@openpartnership.net>
References: <web-339497697@mail.maclaunch.com> <4383819B.8090807@chipp.com>
	<DA4B9B85-3264-4DDE-8DE8-A8359E1FA6F1@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <43853B0F.4050609@chipp.com>

Hi David,

David Bovill wrote:

> (Chipp your reply was a little loaded)

Here's my reading of your first post on this subject: (paraphrased based 
upon your license notification).

"Here's some code I wrote for you to look at-- if you're absolutely 
_NEVER_ planning on using it for any type of commercial gain, IOW, in 
your corporation, or another application, or even in a free application 
which you may at some later time charge a nickel for, then _DON'T USE IT 
UNLESS YOU WANT TO NEGOTIATE PAYMENT WITH ME!_"

Yeah, I guess I do take a bit of exception to that type of 'sharing' on 
this list. Especially since others (including myself) have more than 
contributed without asking for anything in return. Sean's excellent SMTP 
library is an excellent example of sharing w/out expecting payback.

My suggestion is that if you're interested in selling your code to 
commercial and professional developers, then a simple link to the 
website where it resides should more than suffice. That's what we do 
when we announce a new commercial product for sale for RR users.

Now, if that is not the intention of the license you indicated, then I'm 
not reading it correctly. In anycase, your license restrictioned post 
does seem a bit 'loaded' as well.

If your point was just to say that there are problems with sharing code 
on lists w/out licenses, then perhaps it would be just easier to talk to 
that point? Frankly, I think we've all been getting along quite well for 
some time w/out having an EULA from RR or any other such requirements.

Finally, if my above interpretation of your first post is incorrect, 
then please accept my apology.

best,

Chipp



From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Nov 23 23:07:14 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:07:14 -0600
Subject: How to force a true TXT extension?
In-Reply-To: <A835EBEB-835D-422F-9E9C-0F91DE341F28@wanadoo.nl>
References: <A835EBEB-835D-422F-9E9C-0F91DE341F28@wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <43853C72.1080608@chipp.com>

William,

I keep as part of one of my libraries a function:

fixExt()

on mouseUp
   ask file "Save As:" with filter "TXT,*.txt"
   if it is not empty then
       put it into tfile
       put fixExt(tfile,"txt") into tfile
       SaveFile #do save stuff here
   end if
end mouseUp

function fixExt pFilePath,pExtension
   local tFileName
   set itemDel to "/"
   put last item of pFilePath into tFileName
   delete last item of pFilePath
   set itemDel to "."
   if the last item of tFileName <> pExtension then
     put pExtension into item (the number of items of tFileName+1) of 
tFileName
   end if
   return pFilePath & "/" & tFileName
end libFileManagement_FixExtension

William de Smet wrote:

> How can I force a true .TXT extension (even when deleting the  suggested 
> name)?



From psahores at easynet.fr  Thu Nov 24 00:44:35 2005
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 06:44:35 +0100
Subject: Web apps
In-Reply-To: <20051123201157.6659.qmail@web32807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051123201157.6659.qmail@web32807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CBF26CA7-CFB7-44AC-BB6D-A9CA011E63F2@easynet.fr>

AFAIK, the RunRev Team marketing and sales focus is mainly set on the  
DreamCard and Rev Studio products lines. On the other hand, the  
RunRev consulting and service departement can provide, in case of  
special needs, professional grade development and solutions about  
evry thing that can be build in using Revolution Entreprise, Web  
Applications included.

As is, the Rev Studio and Entreprise editions are full featured to  
let us build first class web applications servers, rich media web and  
propetary client-side solutions or web-services interconnectors. All  
choices are open : We can build professional grade rock-solid rev  
powered web applications, we can ask RunRev to provide such  
solutions, we can ask to some companies, there around, a cotation  
about what would cost a special need "n-tier" solution developped on  
top of Rev.

Hope this can help.

Le 23 nov. 05 ? 21:11, Frank R a ?crit :

> Has the company ever spoken about any plans for using this -  
> extremely interesting - development platform for web app development?
>
>   Frank
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr
sc+ at +sahores-conseil.com

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

<http://www.sahores-conseil.com/>

WEB/VoD/ACID-DB services over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"




From chipp at chipp.com  Thu Nov 24 01:24:24 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 00:24:24 -0600
Subject: backdrop
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123102206.09824520@exchange.slg.com>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20051123102206.09824520@exchange.slg.com>
Message-ID: <43855C98.7090802@chipp.com>

Hi Peter,

Here's how you can do it on Windows (unfortunately, doesn't work on 
Macs). Put this in your stack script:

on resumeStack
   set the backdrop to none
   set the backdrop to blue
end resumeStack

Peter T. Evensen wrote:
> On Windows, is there any way to bring the backdrop to the front (so to 
> speak) when you alt tab to your app?  If I open an explorer window and 
> then tab back to my app, I wind up with the explorer window between my 
> stack and the backdrop.



From monsieurx at monsieurx.com  Thu Nov 24 02:00:42 2005
From: monsieurx at monsieurx.com (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 08:00:42 +0100 (GMT-1)
Subject: test - please disregard
Message-ID: <17306.193.29.77.101.1132815642.squirrel@193.29.77.101>

Just a test with a small SIG ;)

just to make digest readers happy

-- 
http://monsieurx.com/taoo



From chandapukiran at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 04:16:28 2005
From: chandapukiran at gmail.com (chandapu kiran kumar)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 14:46:28 +0530
Subject: Usable installers ?
In-Reply-To: <web-339456858@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339456858@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <dfa2c29e0511240116n2140f94fw5521fdbed42b6491@mail.gmail.com>

Hello friends my name is kiran i have been trying for a good software since
2 years which will help us for our computer.

I am expaling you how to that will work if your install that then we may
tension free for our PC.

therefore I want to develop that one if i will success then i will contact
you again

And one thing if you know any web site which will help me for downloading
free software like catia,Pro-E, UgnX3, Auto-Cad.,
etc if possible then please e-mail me

my e-mail address is chandapukiran at gmail.com


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Nov 24 05:16:35 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 10:16:35 +0000
Subject: Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <438516A0.9070703@brturbo.com>
References: <438516A0.9070703@brturbo.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bfab42d4fa75@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

A while back, I remember reading some documentation of menu bars and 
it desbribed how to setup the preference and About menu items in the 
Menubar, but I can't seem to find it now.

So how can I make the Preferences and About Menu items work under 
MacOS X and MacOS 9?

Thanks a lot
Dave



From shaosean at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 24 05:34:34 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 05:34:34 -0500
Subject: bitwise Operators
Message-ID: <BAY105-F128A9730EE6B834DA2038CC3540@phx.gbl>

Due to the fact that the bitwise operators in RunRev do not work on signed 
integers, nor do they have shiftLeft and shiftRight, I decided to write my 
own, so here they are.. I'll put them on my website another day.. As always, 
these are released into the Public Domain.. Any questions, comments, 
suggestions feel free to email me..

All parameters are signed integers (ie. 200, -9, 32)

function bitwiseAnd p1, p2     -- in other languages  ( 9 & 2 )
  local tP1Neg, tP2Neg
  if (p1 < 0) then
    put bitNot abs(p1) +1 into p1
    put TRUE into tP1Neg
  end if
  if (p2 < 0) then
    put bitNot abs(p2) +1 into p2
    put TRUE into tP2Neg
  end if
  if (tP1Neg) AND (tP2Neg) then
    return 0 - bitNot ((p1 bitAnd p2) -1)
  else return p1 bitAnd p2
end bitwiseAnd

function bitwiseOr p1, p2     -- in other languages ( 9 | 2 )
  local tP1Neg, tP2Neg
  if (p1 < 0) then
    put bitNot abs(p1) +1 into p1
    put TRUE into tP1Neg
  end if
  if (p2 < 0) then
    put bitNot abs(p2) +1 into p2
    put TRUE into tP2Neg
  end if
  if (tP1Neg) OR (tP2Neg) then
    return 0 - bitNot ((p1 bitOr p2) -1)
  else return p1 bitOr p2
end bitwiseOr

function bitwiseXor p1, p2     -- in other languages ( 9 ^ 2 )
  local tP1Neg, tP2Neg
  if (p1 < 0) then
    put bitNot abs(p1) +1 into p1
    put TRUE into tP1Neg
  end if
  if (p2 < 0) then
    put bitNot abs(p2) +1 into p2
    put TRUE into tP2Neg
  end if
  if (tP1Neg) AND (tP2Neg) then
    return p1 bitXor p2
  else if (tP1Neg) OR (tP2Neg) then
    return 0 - bitNot ((p1 bitXor p2) -1)
  else return p1 bitXor p2
end bitwiseXor

function bitwiseNot p1     -- in other languages ( ~9 )
  return 0 - (p1 + 1)
end bitwiseNot


### parameter p2 is the amount to shift over

function bitwiseShiftLeft p1, p2     -- in other languages ( 9 << 2)
  return p1 * (2 ^ p2)
end bitwiseShiftLeft

function bitwiseShiftRight p1, p2     -- in other languages ( 9 >> 2 )
  if (p2 > 0) then return trunc(p1 / (2 ^ p2))
  if (p2 = 0) then return p1
  if (p1 < 0) then return trunc(p1 / (2 ^ p2)) -1
end bitwiseShiftRight

function bitwiseShiftRightZero p1, p2     -- in other languages ( 9 >>> 2 )
  if (p1 > 0) then return trunc(p1 / (2 ^ p2))
  if (p2 = 0) then return p1
  if (p1 < 0) then
    put baseConvert(bitNot abs(p1) +1, 10, 2) into p1
    repeat p2
      delete char -1 of p1
      put 0 before p1
    end repeat
    return baseConvert(p1, 2, 10)
  end if
end bitwiseShiftRightZero

_________________________________________________________________
Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/



From jason at polydiam.com  Thu Nov 24 05:54:11 2005
From: jason at polydiam.com (Jason - Polydiam Industries Limited)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 10:54:11 -0000
Subject: Error - Image turns to Black when mirroring then resizing
Message-ID: <002401c5f0e5$686e6710$0200a8c0@Jason>

Hi,

 

I've got an error that keeps occurring with my program where a loaded image
turns completely black.

 

I'm using an image area to dynamically load in images.

 

On a button I use the Mirror function on the image.

 

     flip image "Target Image" horizontal

     choose browse tool

 

then if I use a button to resize the image

 

     set the height of image "Target Image" to 400

 

the image area turns completely black and I don't know why.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Regards

Jason



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Thu Nov 24 06:53:01 2005
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 12:53:01 +0100
Subject: MC has been around for...
Message-ID: <p06200705bfab595044a1@[10.0.0.8]>

I'm writing an important document and need to know how
long MetaCard has been around.

I found this in the archives:

Kevin Miller wrote:

>Revolution has been around for 7 years less than
>the MC IDE, and has many more features. 

anyone have an know??

ciao,
sims


From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Nov 24 07:03:53 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:03:53 +0100
Subject: MC has been around for...
In-Reply-To: <p06200705bfab595044a1@[10.0.0.8]>
References: <p06200705bfab595044a1@[10.0.0.8]>
Message-ID: <D30BA861-32BB-440C-B70D-C2485B9E86EB@major-k.de>

HI sims,

> I'm writing an important document and need to know how
> long MetaCard has been around.
> I found this in the archives:
> Kevin Miller wrote:
>> Revolution has been around for 7 years less than
>> the MC IDE, and has many more features.

:-)

> anyone have an know??

Maybe this helps:

MetaCard is a product and registered Trademark of MetaCard Corporation,
and has been in development since 1990 and in commrecial release  
since June 1992.

Found here on the old MC site:
http://www.metacard.com/faq1.html

> ciao,
> sims

Best

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From monsieurx at monsieurx.com  Thu Nov 24 07:30:26 2005
From: monsieurx at monsieurx.com (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:30:26 +0100 (GMT-1)
Subject: Error - Image turns to Black when mirroring then resizing
In-Reply-To: <002401c5f0e5$686e6710$0200a8c0@Jason>
References: <002401c5f0e5$686e6710$0200a8c0@Jason>
Message-ID: <29878.193.29.77.101.1132835426.squirrel@193.29.77.101>

Hi Jason,

I confirm... happens on my PCs...

However if you resize it first and then flip it it should work ok...

Rotating images gives the same bug result btw...

cheers
Xavier


Jason - Polydiam Industries Limited said:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I've got an error that keeps occurring with my program where a loaded
> image
> turns completely black.
>
>
>
> I'm using an image area to dynamically load in images.
>
>
>
> On a button I use the Mirror function on the image.
>
>
>
>      flip image "Target Image" horizontal
>
>      choose browse tool
>
>
>
> then if I use a button to resize the image
>
>
>
>      set the height of image "Target Image" to 400
>
>
>
> the image area turns completely black and I don't know why.
>
>
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Jason
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


-- 
http://monsieurx.com/taoo



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Nov 24 07:40:46 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 12:40:46 +0000
Subject: Menubar Help
Message-ID: <a05210601bfab5849050e@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

Well after doing a load of searching I found some documentation on 
the menu bar. I am running under MacOS X. I did as the docs say and 
setup an Edit Menu with the last two items set to:

------------------
Preferences

However when I run the App under the IDE, the last two items of the 
Edit Menu have NOT been deleted. There is a Preferences Item in the 
application menu, but it is Disabled. I can select Preferences from 
the Edit menu and it works ok.

I have done the same for the About this Application menu Item, but in 
this case the last two items of the Help Menu DO get deleted and the 
the "About XXXXXX" item is Enabled in the Application Menu and if I 
select it works!

Does anyone have any clue how to make this work correctly under MacOS X????

Thanks in Advance.
All the Best
Dave

--------------------------------

Hi,

A while back, I remember reading some documentation of menu bars and 
it desbribed how to setup the preference and About menu items in the 
Menubar, but I can't seem to find it now.

So how can I make the Preferences and About Menu items work under 
MacOS X and MacOS 9?

Thanks a lot
Dave

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From psahores at easynet.fr  Thu Nov 24 07:42:25 2005
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:42:25 +0100
Subject: MC has been around for...
In-Reply-To: <p06200705bfab595044a1@[10.0.0.8]>
References: <p06200705bfab595044a1@[10.0.0.8]>
Message-ID: <49D4505F-4DE4-4E1A-868D-8F19E7D43334@easynet.fr>

Hi sims,

If i right remember, MC 1.0 went out of Scott's office in 1991 and  
has been around until RunRev got it at the summer 2003. The first  
issues worked on Solaris, than on Windows and Mac OS.

Hope this help.

Best Regards,

Le 24 nov. 05 ? 12:53, sims a ?crit :

> I'm writing an important document and need to know how
> long MetaCard has been around.
>
> I found this in the archives:
>
> Kevin Miller wrote:
>
>> Revolution has been around for 7 years less than
>> the MC IDE, and has many more features.
>
> anyone have an know??
>
> ciao,
> sims
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr
sc+ at +sahores-conseil.com

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

<http://www.sahores-conseil.com/>

WEB/VoD/ACID-DB services over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"




From AbilityForms at aol.com  Thu Nov 24 08:11:58 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 08:11:58 EST
Subject: Menubar Help
Message-ID: <15.51db3b2d.30b7161e@aol.com>

Hi Dave,

I guess I'm losing some of my newbie status when I can finally help somewhat, 
Everyone has been so helpful to me.

Others will contribute more about this I'm sure.

So far in my experience in transferring from HyperCard the most frustrating 
part is dealing with the menubar. I have found mostly by trial and error that 
the menu builder is quirky. If it doesn't work right go to the inspector of the 
menubar group you are working on and either switch off "Behave as Background" 
or switch it on. It MAY help you.

Joe,
Orlando, Florida


From charlessilverman at sympatico.ca  Thu Nov 24 08:24:19 2005
From: charlessilverman at sympatico.ca (Charles Silverman)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 08:24:19 -0500
Subject: apostrophe display with text files and quicktime
In-Reply-To: <20051116030326.17F76824EDE@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051116030326.17F76824EDE@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <58AB6C3E-C091-4E08-99E1-44BF2634BF05@sympatico.ca>

Help!. I have an apostrophe/smart quote problem with the caption text  
files that I generate through Rev.

I'm using Rev as the programming environment for an editor to caption  
quicktime videos.

I've run into a problem with apostrophes turning into garbled text  
when quicktime plays, much like the classic curly quote problem.

See the videos on http://www.dx.org/universal/workshops.htm#videos   
for examples of the above. I haven't encountered the problem before  
but suspect that this particular server is a Windows server.

I've been using the write to file command to generate the quicktime  
text file. I'm assuming that if Rev somehow generated a text file  
with the right kind of apostrophe type then quicktime would handle  
things correctly.

Any thought appreciated.

Thanks,
Charles





From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Nov 24 08:31:55 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:31:55 +0000
Subject: Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <15.51db3b2d.30b7161e@aol.com>
References: <15.51db3b2d.30b7161e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a05210602bfab70acbfab@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi Joe,

Yes, I agree the Menubar handling is very poor and not helped by 
poor/wrong documentation and I can't find one cross-platform example 
that uses the menu bar.

I tried what you suggested but no joy! The preferences Menu Item in 
the Application Menu is still disabled and the last two items in the 
edit menu have NOT been deleted.

Any help on this greatly appreciated.

All the Best
Dave



At 8:11 AM -0500 24/11/05, AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:
>Hi Dave,
>
>I guess I'm losing some of my newbie status when I can finally help somewhat,
>Everyone has been so helpful to me.
>
>Others will contribute more about this I'm sure.
>
>So far in my experience in transferring from HyperCard the most frustrating
>part is dealing with the menubar. I have found mostly by trial and error that
>the menu builder is quirky. If it doesn't work right go to the 
>inspector of the
>menubar group you are working on and either switch off "Behave as Background"
>or switch it on. It MAY help you.
>
>Joe,
>Orlando, Florida
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jhurley at infostations.com  Thu Nov 24 09:31:41 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 06:31:41 -0800
Subject: OT Last week's CarTalk puzzler
In-Reply-To: <20051124101859.AD6F7825103@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051124101859.AD6F7825103@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230901bfab7e857152@[69.19.229.121]>

>
>Message: 10
>Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:19:31 -0500
>From: Charles Hartman <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu>
>Subject: Re: OT Last week's CarTalk puzzler
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Message-ID: <51A8F1BE-8874-493D-888F-0668BC162A59 at conncoll.edu>
>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=US-ASCII;	delsp=yes; 
>	format=flowed
>
>
>On Nov 23, 2005, at 6:07 PM, Jim Hurley wrote:
>
>>
>>  All those numbers are called perfect squares. And only they have an 
>>  odd number of factors, because one of the factors is the square 
>>  root of the number in question. For example, nine has three 
>>  factors, 1 and 9 and 3.  [I confess, I can't see how this follows. 
>>  Jim]
>
>
>Well, because 9 has four factors -- 1, 3, 3, and 9 -- two of which 
>are assigned to the same chain-puller, who however only pulls the 
>chain once.
>
>Charles
>


Charles,

I expressed myself badly. What I meant was that I didn't see how this 
one example proved the theorem. A proof needs to show how the theorem 
follows for all perfect squares and only for perfect squares, i.e. it 
must be both a necessary  and sufficient condition.

Jim


From jason at polydiam.com  Thu Nov 24 10:01:44 2005
From: jason at polydiam.com (Jason - Polydiam Industries Limited)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:01:44 -0000
Subject: Error - Image turns to Black when mirroring then resizing 
Message-ID: <004301c5f107$fc585680$0200a8c0@Jason>

Hi,

Thanks Xavier for confirming the bug.

The program I am developing has to allow the user the flexibility to mirror
the image then resize it whenever they choose.

Does anybody know of a work around?

Thanks again

Jason




Xavier Said:

>Hi Jason,

>I confirm... happens on my PCs...

>However if you resize it first and then flip it it should work ok...

>Rotating images gives the same bug result btw...

>cheers
>Xavier


Jason - Polydiam Industries Limited said:
Hi,
>
>
>
I've got an error that keeps occurring with my program where a loaded
image
turns completely black.
>
>
>
I'm using an image area to dynamically load in images.
>
>
>
On a button I use the Mirror function on the image.
>
>
>
flip image "Target Image" horizontal
>
choose browse tool
>
>
>
then if I use a button to resize the image
>
>
>
set the height of image "Target Image" to 400
>
>
>
the image area turns completely black and I don't know why.
>
>
>
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
Regards
>
Jason
>
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


-- 
http://monsieurx.com/taoo

Regards
Jason
---------------------------------------------------------
POLYDIAM INDUSTRIES LIMITED
70-80 Markfield Road, London N15 4QF, England
Tel: +44-(0)20-8493 1060 Fax: 020-8885 5711
Visit our website: http://www.polydiam.com




From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Thu Nov 24 10:05:31 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 10:05:31 -0500
Subject: OT Last week's CarTalk puzzler
In-Reply-To: <p06230901bfab7e857152@[69.19.229.121]>
References: <20051124101859.AD6F7825103@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230901bfab7e857152@[69.19.229.121]>
Message-ID: <D724973B-94BA-4CF3-AFAA-D271C9D05C78@conncoll.edu>

Interesting. At first it looks straightforward:

1. If a factor is by definition an integer that when multipilied by  
another integer
	yields the number we're interested in as a product, then factors  
have to come
	in pairs. (It takes two to multiply.)
2. "Odd number of factors" is therefore a contradiction in terms,  
unless "factor" is
	shifted to mean "unique factor".
3. If a number has a pair of factors that are identical (so not  
unique, so they only
	"count" once), then it's the product of that factor (which provably  
can't be
	either 1 or the number itself), times that factor, which is the  
definition of a
	square.

So "having an odd number of factors" is a sufficient condition for  
being "a square".

But it doesn't seem to be a necessary condition. The factors of 36 --  
by the double definition you have to use in order to make sense of  
the statement of the problem -- are either
			1   36   2   2   3   3
or
			1   36   2   3
-- which counted one way amount to 6 and the other, 4, neither of  
which is conspicuously odd. It looks to me as though old Tom is  
wrong. Gee, does that ever happen?

Charles


On Nov 24, 2005, at 9:31 AM, Jim Hurley wrote:

>>
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:19:31 -0500
>> From: Charles Hartman <charles.hartman at conncoll.edu>
>> Subject: Re: OT Last week's CarTalk puzzler
>> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>> Message-ID: <51A8F1BE-8874-493D-888F-0668BC162A59 at conncoll.edu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=US-ASCII;	delsp=yes; 	format=flowed
>>
>>
>> On Nov 23, 2005, at 6:07 PM, Jim Hurley wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>  All those numbers are called perfect squares. And only they have  
>>> an  odd number of factors, because one of the factors is the  
>>> square  root of the number in question. For example, nine has  
>>> three  factors, 1 and 9 and 3.  [I confess, I can't see how this  
>>> follows.  Jim]
>>
>>
>> Well, because 9 has four factors -- 1, 3, 3, and 9 -- two of which  
>> are assigned to the same chain-puller, who however only pulls the  
>> chain once.
>>
>> Charles
>>
>
>
> Charles,
>
> I expressed myself badly. What I meant was that I didn't see how  
> this one example proved the theorem. A proof needs to show how the  
> theorem follows for all perfect squares and only for perfect  
> squares, i.e. it must be both a necessary  and sufficient condition.
>
> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From europe at ehug.info  Thu Nov 24 10:06:55 2005
From: europe at ehug.info (Mark Schonewille)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 16:06:55 +0100
Subject: Dragging hand cursor
Message-ID: <4385D70F.7070302@ehug.info>

Hi all,

For a project, I needed a dragging hand cursor. Making cursors 
in Rev without corrupting the image isn't easy. So, I decided to 
share this with you to save you the hassle.

I created a stack with a dragging hand image. This image will 
show up correctly as a cursor, after executing

set the cursor to <image id>

You can download the stack from the downloads section at 
<http://economy-x-talk.com>.

Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

-- 

eHUG coordinator
mailto:europe at ehug.info
http://www.ehug.info
http://home.wanadoo.nl/mark.sch
http://www.economy-x-talk.com



From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Thu Nov 24 10:08:48 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 07:08:48 -0800
Subject: Polling Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <1824447535.20051123103203@ahsoftware.net>
References: <2c1f9da11cd95e2043725b1a78d58014@accommodata.com>
	<f99b52860511221803r73c518dcxb47fb08f8987ac46@mail.gmail.com>
	<4383F2D2.6090609@comcast.net> <43843093.9000406@harbourhost.co.uk>
	<1824447535.20051123103203@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <p06230901bfab86f7fb03@[192.168.1.103]>

If your app is really that useful, why don't you make the API ID 
customizable so the user can obtain his/her own id?? Perhaps 
streamline or explain the application process for the user. Google 
happy, you happy, client happy.

This will defer any harm to you. And it might be hard for one person 
to use 1000/queries/day.

sqb

>Martin-
>
>Wednesday, November 23, 2005, 1:04:19 AM, you wrote:
>
>>  <http://www.google.com/apis/index.html>
>
>>  for how to sign up for a developer key for the Google APIs. Last I heard
>>  you get 1000 queries per day, each of which may return max 10 results.
>
>And therein lies the rub. If I, say, create an app that uses the
>Google API it's linked to my Google developer id. If I then
>distribute that app, my developer id is responsible for *all* those
>accumulated queries. If my app becomes wildly popular and 1001 people
>
>-Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 24 10:22:04 2005
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 07:22:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: bitwise Operators
In-Reply-To: <20051124101859.AD6F7825103@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20051124152204.37238.qmail@web36512.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

om Thu, 24 Nov 2005 
Sean Shao wrote:

> Due to the fact that the bitwise operators 
> in RunRev do not work on signed integers, 
> nor do they have shiftLeft and shiftRight, 
> I decided to write my own, so here they are.. 

Excellent! 
Many Thanks, Sean. :-)

> I'll put them on my website another day.. 
> As always, these are released 
> into the Public Domain.. 

This is great, but when i use your handlers,
i'll include your name and website in 
your code like this:

function bitwiseAnd p1, p2  -- in other languages  ( 9
& 2 )
-- By Sean Shao, (and name of your website)

> Any questions, comments, suggestions 
> feel free to email me..

You are using this code in the SHA-1 algorithm, Right?

i'm working in a md4digest handler for 
implementing a rSync client in RunRev.
Hope that it'll be fast enough to be usable.

Thanks again for sharing your work!

alejandro



Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/

__________________________________________________
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From klaus at major-k.de  Thu Nov 24 10:51:20 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 16:51:20 +0100
Subject: Error - Image turns to Black when mirroring then resizing 
In-Reply-To: <004301c5f107$fc585680$0200a8c0@Jason>
References: <004301c5f107$fc585680$0200a8c0@Jason>
Message-ID: <0FBE6B5E-DF12-4A89-B3A4-9BD9E228738F@major-k.de>

Hi Jason,

> Hi,
>
> Thanks Xavier for confirming the bug.

Looks like Windows only, works fine on a mac.
> The program I am developing has to allow the user the flexibility  
> to mirror
> the image then resize it whenever they choose.
>
> Does anybody know of a work around?

Yep, adjust this to your needs:

...
flip img "original" horizontal
create image
set the rect of last img to the rect of img "original"
## we need the same dimensions because we are
## using "the imagedata"!

set the imagedata of last img to the imagedata of img "original"
## happy resizing :-)

## Now you can hide or delete or do whatever with img "original"
...

Tested and works here on Win XP Home.

> Thanks again
>
> Jason

Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Nov 24 10:58:28 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:58:28 +0000
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
Message-ID: <a05210604bfab907637c1@[192.168.0.101]>

This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev.

You build an application and after lots of blood sweat and tears 
caused by poor docmenation and lack of any support from RunRev Ltd, 
only to find that you can't get a simple thing like a preferences 
menu to work as documented. I've been trying to get this simple thing 
to work for most of the day. Any benefit gained in terms of 
development by using RunRev totally gone because a simple thing like 
a preference menu item won't work!!!!!

The thing that gets my goat is the if I change the prefrences menu 
item to "PreferencesXXX", a dialog appears tell me that this item 
will not not be moved to the Application menu! What a Croc! It doesnt 
get moved anyway!!!

The really infuriating thing is that there is absolutely nothing you 
can do to even try to troubleshoot it given the poor state of the 
documentation, so you are left at the mercy of the good people on 
this list.

Sorry for the rant but upagainst a deadline and I felt it just needed 
to be said!

All the Best
Dave

>Hi,
>
>Well after doing a load of searching I found some documentation on 
>the menu bar. I am running under MacOS X. I did as the docs say and 
>setup an Edit Menu with the last two items set to:
>
>------------------
>Preferences
>
>However when I run the App under the IDE, the last two items of the 
>Edit Menu have NOT been deleted. There is a Preferences Item in the 
>application menu, but it is Disabled. I can select Preferences from 
>the Edit menu and it works ok.
>
>I have done the same for the About this Application menu Item, but 
>in this case the last two items of the Help Menu DO get deleted and 
>the the "About XXXXXX" item is Enabled in the Application Menu and 
>if I select it works!
>
>Does anyone have any clue how to make this work correctly under MacOS X????
>
>Thanks in Advance.
>All the Best
>Dave


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Nov 24 11:04:20 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 17:04:20 +0100
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <a05210604bfab907637c1@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210604bfab907637c1@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <B4BC6FFB-9A40-4FF2-9595-BAABA7494E4A@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Dave,

Guide lines on Mac OS say that the menu item for Prefs must be only  
*Preferences...*
So, according to the guide lines, Rev moves only such an item and  
skips PreferencesXXX :-)

Le 24 nov. 05 ? 16:58, David Burgun a ?crit :

> The thing that gets my goat is the if I change the prefrences menu  
> item to "PreferencesXXX", a dialog appears tell me that this item  
> will not not be moved to the Application menu! What a Croc! It  
> doesnt get moved anyway!!!

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Nov 24 11:18:20 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 16:18:20 +0000
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <B4BC6FFB-9A40-4FF2-9595-BAABA7494E4A@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <a05210604bfab907637c1@[192.168.0.101]>
	<B4BC6FFB-9A40-4FF2-9595-BAABA7494E4A@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bfab972d43e1@[192.168.0.101]>

Yes I know it says that! But it doesn't DO that!

The last 2 lines in the Edit Menu:

---------  (separator)
Preferences

This does NOT get moved to the Applications menu.

If (in an effort to try to track down the problem) I change it to 
PreferenceXXX I get the warning, (so it is pretending to work), I hit 
hit cancel leaving the last item as "Preferences", it DOES NOT move 
them to the Applications Menu, they remain in the Edit menu!

This what I am moaning about! How can I get it to move them as 
documented? I do the same thing with the Help Menu for the About Box 
and this works just fine, so why not the Edit Menu?

Thanks a lot
Cheers
Dave

>Hi Dave,
>
>Guide lines on Mac OS say that the menu item for Prefs must be only 
>*Preferences...*
>So, according to the guide lines, Rev moves only such an item and 
>skips PreferencesXXX :-)
>
>Le 24 nov. 05 ? 16:58, David Burgun a ?crit :
>
>>The thing that gets my goat is the if I change the prefrences menu 
>>item to "PreferencesXXX", a dialog appears tell me that this item 
>>will not not be moved to the Application menu! What a Croc! It 
>>doesnt get moved anyway!!!
>
>Best Regards from Paris,
>
>Eric Chatonet.
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>So Smart Software
>
>For institutions, companies and associations
>Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
>Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
>Free plugins and tutorials on my website
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
>Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
>Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
>Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu Nov 24 11:20:34 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 08:20:34 -0800
Subject: Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <a05210601bfab5849050e@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210601bfab5849050e@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <277A76E7-71C7-419A-A10E-058610107749@mangomultimedia.com>

On Nov 24, 2005, at 4:40 AM, David Burgun wrote:

> Well after doing a load of searching I found some documentation on  
> the menu bar. I am running under MacOS X. I did as the docs say and  
> setup an Edit Menu with the last two items set to:

Have you looked at the scripting conference stack on Menus?  Perhaps  
that would help.

<http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences/>


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Nov 24 11:28:40 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 17:28:40 +0100
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bfab972d43e1@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210604bfab907637c1@[192.168.0.101]>
	<B4BC6FFB-9A40-4FF2-9595-BAABA7494E4A@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<a05210600bfab972d43e1@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <43B6C9B3-530D-4485-962E-22851A80073B@sosmartsoftware.com>

Yes Dave, I wrote "Preferences..." with three dots :-)

Le 24 nov. 05 ? 17:18, David Burgun a ?crit :

> Yes I know it says that! But it doesn't DO that!
>
> The last 2 lines in the Edit Menu:
>
> ---------  (separator)
> Preferences
>
> This does NOT get moved to the Applications menu.


Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Nov 24 11:30:20 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 16:30:20 +0000
Subject: Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <277A76E7-71C7-419A-A10E-058610107749@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <a05210601bfab5849050e@[192.168.0.101]>
	<277A76E7-71C7-419A-A10E-058610107749@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <a05210601bfab9ad41fa2@[192.168.0.101]>

Had a look, it just says the same thing:

Make the last 2 lines of the edit menu:

------------------
Preferences

and they will automatically be moved to the applications menu under MacOS X.

Doesn't happen.

Thanks anyway and All the Best
Dave


>On Nov 24, 2005, at 4:40 AM, David Burgun wrote:
>
>>Well after doing a load of searching I found some documentation on 
>>the menu bar. I am running under MacOS X. I did as the docs say and 
>>setup an Edit Menu with the last two items set to:
>
>Have you looked at the scripting conference stack on Menus?  Perhaps 
>that would help.
>
><http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences/>
>
>
>--
>Trevor DeVore
>Blue Mango Multimedia
>trevor at mangomultimedia.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Nov 24 11:41:28 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 08:41:28 -0800
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <a05210604bfab907637c1@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210604bfab907637c1@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <95549F77-518C-425A-AE0B-F044CC207375@inspiredlogic.com>


On Nov 24, 2005, at 7:58 AM, David Burgun wrote:

> The thing that gets my goat is the if I change the prefrences menu  
> item to "PreferencesXXX", a dialog appears tell me that this item  
> will not not be moved to the Application menu! What a Croc! It  
> doesnt get moved anyway!!!

As a troubleshooting aid, try this:

1. Create a new mainstack
2. Open the Menu Builder on the Edit menu
3. Click the New button
4. Click the OK button
5. Select the Set as Menubar on Mac OS checkbox
6. Close the Menu Builder
7. Choose the Browse tool
8. Click on the new stack

At this point the menus should change to the minimum set created with  
the Menu Builder. Check the Revolution menu to see if the  
Preferences... item is there. If all is well it should be. Check the  
Edit menu to see if the Preferences item is there. If all is well it  
shouldn't be.

If the default menu created by the Menu Builder worked, then try to  
figure out what is different between the menu it created and the one  
that isn't working. As possibilities, consider: is Preferences  
spelled exactly the same (copy and paste it to be sure); is  
Preferences the last item on the menu; is there a stray return  
character after it.

If the default menu created by the Menu Builder didn't work, consider  
reinstalling Revolution, or try on a different computer.

regards,

Geoff


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Nov 24 11:45:40 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 16:45:40 +0000
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <43B6C9B3-530D-4485-962E-22851A80073B@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <a05210604bfab907637c1@[192.168.0.101]>
	<B4BC6FFB-9A40-4FF2-9595-BAABA7494E4A@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<a05210600bfab972d43e1@[192.168.0.101]>
	<43B6C9B3-530D-4485-962E-22851A80073B@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <a05210604bfab9e22e669@[192.168.0.101]>

Doesn't matter if I put:

Preferences
Preferences... (three dots)
or
Preference (Option+;), still doesn't get moved.

Also interestingly enough, if I type:

Preferences
Preferences... (three dots)

I do not get the warning, meaning it's "happy" that with the spelling

However:

Preference (Option+;)

Gives the warning! Meaning it's not happy with the spelling!

Thanks a lot
Dave


>Yes Dave, I wrote "Preferences..." with three dots :-)
>
>Le 24 nov. 05 ? 17:18, David Burgun a ?crit :
>
>>Yes I know it says that! But it doesn't DO that!
>>
>>The last 2 lines in the Edit Menu:
>>
>>---------  (separator)
>>Preferences
>>
>>This does NOT get moved to the Applications menu.
>
>
>Best Regards from Paris,
>
>Eric Chatonet.
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>So Smart Software
>
>For institutions, companies and associations
>Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
>Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
>Free plugins and tutorials on my website
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
>Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
>Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
>Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Thu Nov 24 11:47:26 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 08:47:26 -0800
Subject: test - please disregard
In-Reply-To: <17306.193.29.77.101.1132815642.squirrel@193.29.77.101>
References: <17306.193.29.77.101.1132815642.squirrel@193.29.77.101>
Message-ID: <p06230904bfab9ee596d3@[192.168.1.103]>

NICE! Thanks!
>Just a test with a small SIG ;)

-- 


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Nov 24 11:58:45 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 16:58:45 +0000
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <95549F77-518C-425A-AE0B-F044CC207375@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <a05210604bfab907637c1@[192.168.0.101]>
	<95549F77-518C-425A-AE0B-F044CC207375@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <a05210605bfab9f6f34c6@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

I've tried all that! Still doesn't work.

If I create a new menu from the menu builder in a new stack all is 
fine, but I can't make the one I have now work correctly. I have 
checked the spelling, but anyway it must be correct since I get the 
warning dialog if I change it to something other than "Preferences" 
or "Preferences...".

As far as I can tell there are no spurious characters after the last 
line of the items list, also the warning dialog tends to support this.

Thanks a lot
All the Best
Dave

>On Nov 24, 2005, at 7:58 AM, David Burgun wrote:
>
>>The thing that gets my goat is the if I change the prefrences menu 
>>item to "PreferencesXXX", a dialog appears tell me that this item 
>>will not not be moved to the Application menu! What a Croc! It 
>>doesnt get moved anyway!!!
>
>As a troubleshooting aid, try this:
>
>1. Create a new mainstack
>2. Open the Menu Builder on the Edit menu
>3. Click the New button
>4. Click the OK button
>5. Select the Set as Menubar on Mac OS checkbox
>6. Close the Menu Builder
>7. Choose the Browse tool
>8. Click on the new stack
>
>At this point the menus should change to the minimum set created 
>with the Menu Builder. Check the Revolution menu to see if the 
>Preferences... item is there. If all is well it should be. Check the 
>Edit menu to see if the Preferences item is there. If all is well it 
>shouldn't be.
>
>If the default menu created by the Menu Builder worked, then try to 
>figure out what is different between the menu it created and the one 
>that isn't working. As possibilities, consider: is Preferences 
>spelled exactly the same (copy and paste it to be sure); is 
>Preferences the last item on the menu; is there a stray return 
>character after it.
>
>If the default menu created by the Menu Builder didn't work, 
>consider reinstalling Revolution, or try on a different computer.
>
>regards,
>
>Geoff
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Nov 24 12:10:52 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 09:10:52 -0800
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <a05210605bfab9f6f34c6@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210604bfab907637c1@[192.168.0.101]>
	<95549F77-518C-425A-AE0B-F044CC207375@inspiredlogic.com>
	<a05210605bfab9f6f34c6@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <ACD3F070-3FB9-4C2B-9B80-D402B8959504@inspiredlogic.com>

The warning is generated by the development environment, the actual  
moving is done by the engine. So it is entirely possible for:

1. it to warn you that it won't be moved, but it does get moved
2. it not to warn you that it won't be moved, but it doesn't get moved
3. it to warn you that it won't be moved, and it isn't moved
4. it not to warn you that it won't be moved, and it does get moved.

Have you tried copying the contents of the edit menu that does work  
and pasting them into the menu that does not?

(Just confirming) the About item _does_ move, and the Preferences  
item doesn't?

Have you tried replacing the entire menu bar group of buttons with  
the ones that do work?

gc

On Nov 24, 2005, at 8:58 AM, David Burgun wrote:

> I've tried all that! Still doesn't work.
>
> If I create a new menu from the menu builder in a new stack all is  
> fine, but I can't make the one I have now work correctly. I have  
> checked the spelling, but anyway it must be correct since I get the  
> warning dialog if I change it to something other than "Preferences"  
> or "Preferences...".
>
> As far as I can tell there are no spurious characters after the  
> last line of the items list, also the warning dialog tends to  
> support this.



From jhurley at infostations.com  Thu Nov 24 12:14:51 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 09:14:51 -0800
Subject: OT Last week's CarTalk puzzler
In-Reply-To: <20051124155428.A772E8251C5@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051124155428.A772E8251C5@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230902bfaba11a8c3f@[69.19.229.121]>

>Charles Hartman wrote:
>
>Interesting. At first it looks straightforward:
>
>1. If a factor is by definition an integer that when multipilied by 
>another integer
>	yields the number we're interested in as a product, then factors 
>have to come
>	in pairs. (It takes two to multiply.)
>2. "Odd number of factors" is therefore a contradiction in terms, 
>unless "factor" is
>	shifted to mean "unique factor".
>3. If a number has a pair of factors that are identical (so not 
>unique, so they only
>	"count" once), then it's the product of that factor (which provably 
>can't be
>	either 1 or the number itself), times that factor, which is the 
>definition of a
>	square.
>
>So "having an odd number of factors" is a sufficient condition for 
>being "a square".
>
>But it doesn't seem to be a necessary condition. The factors of 36 -- 
>by the double definition you have to use in order to make sense of 
>the statement of the problem -- are either
>			1   36   2   2   3   3
>or
>			1   36   2   3


Charles,

The factors of 36 are 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 9, 12, 18, and 36; an odd number 
of factors as the theorem predicts.

The factors of 32 are 1, 2, 4, 8, 16,  and 32; an even number of 
factors, again consistent with the theorem.

The only way  I know to solve this problem, i.e. show that the number 
of factors of a given number is odd, if and only if the number is a 
perfect square, is to express the number as a product of primes.

For example 36 = 2^2 * 3^2

And 32 = 2^5

In case anyone wants to pursue this further, I will quit here. Beauty 
is best enjoyed if you discover it for yourself.

Jim



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Nov 24 12:21:37 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 17:21:37 +0000
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
Message-ID: <a05210606bfaba4a06ce5@[192.168.0.101]>

Ok, so I started again, did your steps:

>>1. Create a new mainstack
>>2. Open the Menu Builder on the Edit menu
>>3. Click the New button
>>4. Click the OK button
>>5. Select the Set as Menubar on Mac OS checkbox
>>6. Close the Menu Builder
>>7. Choose the Browse tool
>>8. Click on the new stack


And this one appears to move the said items, however, now I can't get 
the stack to behave like a MacOS X menu. When I do this the menu 
appears across the top of the stack window. I click the "Set as Menu 
Bar on Mac OS" check box, the menu in the stack disappears. I then 
save the stack, close it and re-open it. Bang! The menu bar is back 
across the top of the stack window! I open the menu builder again, 
the MenuBar Group box contains nothing and I have to select it via 
the edit button. When I do this, the MacOS X check box is off again. 
Tried this a couple of times and got fed up!

What Gives? Why is this SUCH a difficult thing to do in RunRev? I 
don't know any other environment where this is SUCH a big deal, I 
could have done this 100 times over in C or even PowerPC assembler!

Getting to the end of a long day and I have to get this working 
tonight! I really don't want to have to tell my boss that I can't do 
this in RunRev and that the support it so bad that you can't even get 
someone to look at it!

All the Best
Dave

>Hi,
>
>I've tried all that! Still doesn't work.
>
>If I create a new menu from the menu builder in a new stack all is 
>fine, but I can't make the one I have now work correctly. I have 
>checked the spelling, but anyway it must be correct since I get the 
>warning dialog if I change it to something other than "Preferences" 
>or "Preferences...".
>
>As far as I can tell there are no spurious characters after the last 
>line of the items list, also the warning dialog tends to support 
>this.
>
>Thanks a lot
>All the Best
>Dave
>
>>On Nov 24, 2005, at 7:58 AM, David Burgun wrote:
>>
>>>The thing that gets my goat is the if I change the prefrences menu 
>>>item to "PreferencesXXX", a dialog appears tell me that this item 
>>>will not not be moved to the Application menu! What a Croc! It 
>>>doesnt get moved anyway!!!
>>
>>As a troubleshooting aid, try this:
>>
>>1. Create a new mainstack
>>2. Open the Menu Builder on the Edit menu
>>3. Click the New button
>>4. Click the OK button
>>5. Select the Set as Menubar on Mac OS checkbox
>>6. Close the Menu Builder
>>7. Choose the Browse tool
>>8. Click on the new stack
>>
>>At this point the menus should change to the minimum set created 
>>with the Menu Builder. Check the Revolution menu to see if the 
>>Preferences... item is there. If all is well it should be. Check 
>>the Edit menu to see if the Preferences item is there. If all is 
>>well it shouldn't be.
>>
>>If the default menu created by the Menu Builder worked, then try to 
>>figure out what is different between the menu it created and the 
>>one that isn't working. As possibilities, consider: is Preferences 
>>spelled exactly the same (copy and paste it to be sure); is 
>>Preferences the last item on the menu; is there a stray return 
>>character after it.
>>
>>If the default menu created by the Menu Builder didn't work, 
>>consider reinstalling Revolution, or try on a different computer.
>>
>>regards,
>>
>>Geoff
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-revolution mailing list
>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>subscription preferences:
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Thu Nov 24 12:50:09 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 09:50:09 -0800
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <a05210606bfaba4a06ce5@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210606bfaba4a06ce5@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <p06230905bfaba8e8ef91@[192.168.1.103]>

Dave, it's cool. Take a deep breath. You've got a lot of love in the 
room on this list.

Complaining, making threats and playing the role of the disgruntled 
customer won't go as far here as calm discussion. Please be careful 
about dissing Runrev in particular - your careless comments could 
scare away lurkers - potential runrev users (and therefore a 
healthier business, with continued development, etc). I have no doubt 
that you will find help in this place within hours. The best 
scripters in the world hang out here.

This stage (OUTRAGE+Confusion) is typical of one's self-education in 
using rev. Either it will be fixed in the next revision or we write a 
thing to go around it for now. As far as I'm concerned the gains in 
using this erector set far outweighs any glitches I encounter.

Are you angry enough to write your own Menu Maker? It can be done.

>What Gives? Why is this SUCH a difficult thing to do in RunRev? I 
>don't know any other environment where this is SUCH a big deal, I 
>could have done this 100 times over in C or even PowerPC assembler!
>
>Getting to the end of a long day and I have to get this working 
>tonight! I really don't want to have to tell my boss that I can't do 
>this in RunRev and that the support it so bad that you can't even 
>get someone to look at it!
>
>All the Best
>Dave

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From david at openpartnership.net  Thu Nov 24 12:51:55 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 18:51:55 +0100
Subject: Spelling out openess
In-Reply-To: <43853B0F.4050609@chipp.com>
References: <web-339497697@mail.maclaunch.com> <4383819B.8090807@chipp.com>
	<DA4B9B85-3264-4DDE-8DE8-A8359E1FA6F1@openpartnership.net>
	<43853B0F.4050609@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <1AA8AA85-044B-4239-B0D3-1598E1C3A820@openpartnership.net>

On 24 Nov 2005, at 05:01, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Finally, if my above interpretation of your first post is  
> incorrect, then please accept my apology.

Thanks for the kind comments (we cna all be sensitive). From my  
original post:

> Now of course for a small piece of code like this - well may as  
> well be given away public domain (which is dubious legally in many  
> countries). But this is an example.

It should have read "just" an example... So yes i was only trying to  
make concrete the problems that occur when the legal status of such  
posts is not clear.


> Sean's excellent SMTP library is an excellent example of sharing w/ 
> out expecting payback.

Agreed a wonderful and generous contribution.


On 23 Nov 2005, at 22:23, Sean Shao wrote:

> Well I've stated in the source code that no license is needed from  
> me to use the libraries

And clearly licensed :)


The problem occurs with large collections taken from sources such as  
this list.


On 24 Nov 2005, at 03:45, Sean Shao wrote:
> A legal document that you sign is legally binding whether you read  
> it or not (hence the reason I read everything I sign and refuse to  
> sign almost everything ;-) )

My understanding too.


On 23 Nov 2005, at 23:20, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> draconian TOSes like we see on AOL and elsewhere about how posting  
> here obliterates all of your rights and grants total control of  
> your words to the list owner.

The idea would be to do precisely the opposite. To indicate clearly  
that such contributions were all in the public domain (note the  
problems with this) or under as free a license as possible so that  
they can be included as safely as possible in useful free or  
commercial collections - such as the fab Scripters Scrapbook.

For the same reasons, if this were part on an explicit open source  
policy, well documented, legally sorted and marketed - then it would  
put all of us in a much better position to tender for the sort of  
government contracts that Andre Garzia, myself and others have  
pointed out as being prime application areas that Revolution  
developers can play an important role in.



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Nov 24 13:11:15 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 10:11:15 -0800
Subject: OT Last week's CarTalk puzzler
In-Reply-To: <D724973B-94BA-4CF3-AFAA-D271C9D05C78@conncoll.edu>
References: <20051124101859.AD6F7825103@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230901bfab7e857152@[69.19.229.121]>
	<D724973B-94BA-4CF3-AFAA-D271C9D05C78@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <312012013.20051124101115@ahsoftware.net>

Charles-

Thursday, November 24, 2005, 7:05:31 AM, you wrote:

> But it doesn't seem to be a necessary condition. The factors of 36 --
> by the double definition you have to use in order to make sense of  
> the statement of the problem -- are either
>                         1   36   2   2   3   3
> or
>                         1   36   2   3
> -- which counted one way amount to 6 and the other, 4, neither of  
> which is conspicuously odd. It looks to me as though old Tom is  
> wrong. Gee, does that ever happen?

???

I count the factors of 36 as being:

1 2 3 4 9 18 36

and that seems odd to me...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Nov 24 13:13:27 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 10:13:27 -0800
Subject: test - please disregard
In-Reply-To: <17306.193.29.77.101.1132815642.squirrel@193.29.77.101>
References: <17306.193.29.77.101.1132815642.squirrel@193.29.77.101>
Message-ID: <592143722.20051124101327@ahsoftware.net>

MisterX-

Wednesday, November 23, 2005, 11:00:42 PM, you wrote:

> Just a test with a small SIG ;)

> just to make digest readers happy

Perfect. Now... If you can place that same string before or after the
line with your name in your company sig, that will take care of the
replying problem with your corporate email address.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Nov 24 13:15:45 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 10:15:45 -0800
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <a05210606bfaba4a06ce5@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210606bfaba4a06ce5@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <501B5EEF-18BD-4635-AC2A-B39B46674CE9@inspiredlogic.com>

Just thought of the OS aspect -- what OS version are you running?

I just did this same thing, and it worked fine for me:

1. Created stack with menu, saw that it worked. Used Rev 2.6.
2. Saved stack and quit Rev.
3. Opened Rev.
4. Opened stack -- looked fine.

Either we're doing something different, we're using different  
versions of Rev, we're using different versions of the OS (I'm on  
Tiger), or there's something wrong with your installation.

Were I in your position I'd try restarting the computer, reinstalling  
Rev, and creating a test project from scratch. That or trying a  
different computer entirely.

gc

On Nov 24, 2005, at 9:21 AM, David Burgun wrote:

> And this one appears to move the said items, however, now I can't  
> get the stack to behave like a MacOS X menu. When I do this the  
> menu appears across the top of the stack window. I click the "Set  
> as Menu Bar on Mac OS" check box, the menu in the stack disappears.  
> I then save the stack, close it and re-open it. Bang! The menu bar  
> is back across the top of the stack window! I open the menu builder  
> again, the MenuBar Group box contains nothing and I have to select  
> it via the edit button. When I do this, the MacOS X check box is  
> off again. Tried this a couple of times and got fed up!



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Thu Nov 24 13:28:01 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 19:28:01 +0100
Subject: test - please disregard
In-Reply-To: <592143722.20051124101327@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <20051124174622.07FDE82517B@mail.runrev.com>

Mark

this is a different address altogether.

It's possible I just mistakenly reply via 
lotus notes (wida big siga) but I hope
not... ;)

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo 
the object is the objects!

Mark Wieder Wrote 

> MisterX-
> 
> Wednesday, November 23, 2005, 11:00:42 PM, you wrote:
> 
> > Just a test with a small SIG ;)
> 
> > just to make digest readers happy
> 
> Perfect. Now... If you can place that same string before or 
> after the line with your name in your company sig, that will 
> take care of the replying problem with your corporate email address.
> 
> --
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net

[rev sig stripped - but it will be back :]



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Nov 24 13:28:16 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 10:28:16 -0800
Subject: bitwise Operators
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-F128A9730EE6B834DA2038CC3540@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY105-F128A9730EE6B834DA2038CC3540@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1153033652.20051124102816@ahsoftware.net>

Sean-

Thursday, November 24, 2005, 2:34:34 AM, you wrote:

> Due to the fact that the bitwise operators in RunRev do not work on signed
> integers, nor do they have shiftLeft and shiftRight, I decided to write my
> own, so here they are.. I'll put them on my website another day.. As always,
> these are released into the Public Domain.. Any questions, comments,
> suggestions feel free to email me..

Thanks. I had tried these myself and got bogged down with what happens
when one factor is negative and the other isn't.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From AbilityForms at aol.com  Thu Nov 24 13:42:58 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:42:58 EST
Subject: Menubar Help
Message-ID: <c.520bdce6.30b763b2@aol.com>

Hi Dave,

You may not like my next suggestion but it could be the answer. Start with a 
new menubar and don't delete any of the standard menus. Add your menus before 
the last "Help" menu. I think you can disable the menu selections you don't 
want without causing problems.

Joe


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Nov 24 14:01:01 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:01:01 -0800
Subject: OT Last week's CarTalk puzzler
In-Reply-To: <312012013.20051124101115@ahsoftware.net>
References: <20051124101859.AD6F7825103@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230901bfab7e857152@[69.19.229.121]>
	<D724973B-94BA-4CF3-AFAA-D271C9D05C78@conncoll.edu>
	<312012013.20051124101115@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <634998537.20051124110101@ahsoftware.net>

Mark-

Thursday, November 24, 2005, 10:11:15 AM, you wrote:

> I count the factors of 36 as being:

> 1 2 3 4 9 18 36

<urk> make that...

1 2 3 4 6 9 12 18 36

but it's still odd

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From frny4x at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 24 14:04:28 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:04:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Recent anger - and new guy here
In-Reply-To: <p06230905bfaba8e8ef91@[192.168.1.103]>
Message-ID: <20051124190429.40557.qmail@web32803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Ok, with the recent anger expressed, and with me being a new guy on the block, 
  let me ask some questions:
   
  - What's the size of the company behind this product?  You don't have to give precise numbers, but somebody must know if this company is - a thousand people - doubt it, a hundred people - still probably doubt it, at least dozens of people - probably, and I hope, or one or two people - I don't hope this is the case.
   
  - What are the support options?  Do we get 100% of support via the dialog in this forum, or is there a way to contact a tech support team at the company and occasionally get a good answer?
   
  - What's the frequency of the release of minor levels and major levels of the software?
   
  - Are people out there making a livelihood using this product nearly exclusively, or is this rare to nonexistent?
   
  Thanks.
  [I'm a long time developer, and I have used Many tools and languages, and while this thing doesn't look like the tool for All jobs, it does look like The Tool for some jobs.
  So, I start out my journey here enthusiastically until someone tells me otherwise.]
   
  Frank
  ____________________________________________________________________

Stephen Barncard <stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com> wrote:
  Dave, it's cool. Take a deep breath. You've got a lot of love in the 
room on this list.

Complaining, making threats and playing the role of the disgruntled 
customer won't go as far here as calm discussion. Please be careful 
about dissing Runrev in particular - your careless comments could 
scare away lurkers - potential runrev users (and therefore a 
healthier business, with continued development, etc). I have no doubt 
that you will find help in this place within hours. The best 
scripters in the world hang out here.

This stage (OUTRAGE+Confusion) is typical of one's self-education in 
using rev. Either it will be fixed in the next revision or we write a 
thing to go around it for now. As far as I'm concerned the gains in 
using this erector set far outweighs any glitches I encounter.

Are you angry enough to write your own Menu Maker? It can be done.

>What Gives? Why is this SUCH a difficult thing to do in RunRev? I 
>don't know any other environment where this is SUCH a big deal, I 
>could have done this 100 times over in C or even PowerPC assembler!
>
>Getting to the end of a long day and I have to get this working 
>tonight! I really don't want to have to tell my boss that I can't do 
>this in RunRev and that the support it so bad that you can't even 
>get someone to look at it!
>
>All the Best
>Dave

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n f r a n c i s c o
- - - - - - - - - - - -
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
  



From jhurley at infostations.com  Thu Nov 24 14:05:18 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:05:18 -0800
Subject: OT Last week's CarTalk puzzler
In-Reply-To: <20051124180006.3466D825256@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051124180006.3466D825256@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230903bfabbd9a3a1a@[69.19.229.121]>

>
>Message: 10
>Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 10:11:15 -0800
>From: Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net>
>Subject: Re: OT Last week's CarTalk puzzler
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Message-ID: <312012013.20051124101115 at ahsoftware.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>Charles-
>
>Thursday, November 24, 2005, 7:05:31 AM, you wrote:
>
>>  But it doesn't seem to be a necessary condition. The factors of 36 --
>>  by the double definition you have to use in order to make sense of 
>>  the statement of the problem -- are either
>>                          1   36   2   2   3   3
>>  or
>>                          1   36   2   3
>>  -- which counted one way amount to 6 and the other, 4, neither of 
>>  which is conspicuously odd. It looks to me as though old Tom is 
>>  wrong. Gee, does that ever happen?
>
>???
>
>I count the factors of 36 as being:
>
>1 2 3 4 9 18 36
>
>and that seems odd to me...
>
>--
>-Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>**********************************************


Well, Mark, it is odd, but so is 1,2,3,4,6,9,12,18,36.

Moral: Better to make two slips than one, particularly when the 
answer is binary.

It is easy to miss factors. I make a little educational stack some 
time ago to automate the process:

In the message box:

     go stack url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/PrimeNumbers.rev"

Jim




From jeff at siphonophore.com  Thu Nov 24 14:18:21 2005
From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeffrey Reynolds)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 14:18:21 -0500
Subject: Meeting at MacWorld SF in January 2006
In-Reply-To: <20051124101859.AD6F7825103@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051124101859.AD6F7825103@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <41f804243c32858626dcbcfe2defa172@siphonophore.com>

A number of years back a few of us (then metacarders) met up for coffee 
at the show, was just nice to see the faces to go with the online text 
picture that had been created in my head! I am hoping a project will be 
starting in Oakland about then and I can get a trip out west to also 
attend the show and if so im game for something simple!

Jeffrey Reynolds

On Nov 24, 2005, at 5:18 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

> And if we get that same result this year, I bet someone will set up
> an offsite BOF. Who needs IDG?
>
> Dan



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu Nov 24 14:25:01 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:25:01 -0800
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about whingeing
In-Reply-To: <a05210604bfab907637c1@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210604bfab907637c1@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <4386138D.8070204@fourthworld.com>


David -

Your thread was off to a productive start, and then you derailed it with 
a random rant that benefits neither the good people on this list or 
yourself.  We all need to write a good ranting email now and then; the 
trick is to remove the "to" address so you can't send it. ;)

Back to the problem at hand, have you noticed that a lot of people here 
ship a lot of apps, and nearly all of those apps have menubars?

That should have been the first clue that the menu mechanism works.

With that now understood, the next step is to identify differences 
between working and non-working states.

I could find no post in which you listed your menu items.  That may be 
relevant.

It may also be worth checking the layer order of the buttons in the menu 
group.  If you added one later it can throw off the layer order, and 
while Rev shows menus for 95% of the computing audience in a direct 
WYSIWYG way, Mac menus are a strange beast that must go through a 
separate mechanism to be drawn, and ae drawn in the order in which they 
appear in the menu group.

Also, do you have any scripts that modify the contents of your menu items?

If you build a simple set of menus from scratch in a fresh stack do you 
see the same problem?

I've been unable to reproduce your circumstance, so while it doesn't 
lead us closer to understanding the root cause it does suggest that it's 
not only fully possible to what you want, it's also easy.  It took me 
only a minute to hand-build a menu bar in a fresh stack to try to 
reproduce your problem.

Hang in there.  As you say, you have a deadline. If you use what little 
time you have productively this can be solved.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From shaosean at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 24 14:33:20 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 14:33:20 -0500
Subject: Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <20051124155428.A772E8251C5@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-F3134E4249E8D48B99179DBC3540@phx.gbl>

Have you tried:

(-
Preferences...

OR:

(-
Preferences [ option ; ]   (no space between Preferences and the option key 
command)

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



From shaosean at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 24 14:36:28 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 14:36:28 -0500
Subject: bitwise Operators
In-Reply-To: <20051124155428.A772E8251C5@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-F82DD47CC3F54364761D2AC3540@phx.gbl>

>Many Thanks, Sean. :-)
No problem.. Hopefully others will find them useful and save them from the 
same headaches that I've had to go through..


>You are using this code in the SHA-1 algorithm, Right?
Yes, hopefully now I can get it done now and easily track down any bugs that 
there may be..


>i'm working in a md4digest handler for
Good luck and have fun =)

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Nov 24 14:45:57 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:45:57 -0600
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <a05210606bfaba4a06ce5@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <BFAB7495.305C6%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/24/05 11:21 AM, "David Burgun" <dburgun at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:


> What Gives? Why is this SUCH a difficult thing to do in RunRev? I
> don't know any other environment where this is SUCH a big deal, I
> could have done this 100 times over in C or even PowerPC assembler!

It's not normally a big deal, but there's obviously something that's going
screwy on your side.

> Getting to the end of a long day and I have to get this working
> tonight! I really don't want to have to tell my boss that I can't do
> this in RunRev and that the support it so bad that you can't even get
> someone to look at it!

Dave, give us a break! Don't forget that this is Thanksgiving Day here in
the US, and so I'm surprised there's anyone on the list to help you at all!
I understand you're frustrated, but get some perspective here...

Now, have you sent your stack to anyone to look at? If not, you can send it
to me and I'll try and figure out what the problem is.

BTW: One thing to check might be the layering order of your menu buttons.
According to the docs:

"For a menu bar to work properly on Mac OS and OS X systems, the menus must
be in layer order within the group. That is, the button for the File menu
must be numbered 1, the button for the Edit menu must be 2, and so on."


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Thu Nov 24 14:48:41 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 14:48:41 -0500
Subject: OT Last week's CarTalk puzzler
In-Reply-To: <312012013.20051124101115@ahsoftware.net>
References: <20051124101859.AD6F7825103@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230901bfab7e857152@[69.19.229.121]>
	<D724973B-94BA-4CF3-AFAA-D271C9D05C78@conncoll.edu>
	<312012013.20051124101115@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <7EDCB5F8-DED0-4C76-8501-0976FDE04912@conncoll.edu>

I absolutely promise not to post on this topic any more. But having  
said something stupid I have to take it back, which requires posting,  
& trying to avoid saying something stupid . . . I think this is  
called karma.

What I neatly demonstrated had nothing much to do with the problem,  
because I was counting prime factors.

For a proof that the Ray Theorem is true, I refer anyone interested  
to a friend & colleague who's a mathematician and whom I should have  
asked before I posted anything, and who wrote as shown below.

Charles, shutting up


================= snip =============

Anyway, here?s an argument. Consider the positive integer n > 1.  
There are two cases to
consider.

1. Suppose ?n is not an integer. (Then, of course, ?n is not even  
rational but that is
another story.) Now n has at least one factor that is smaller than  
?n, namely, 1. And,
clearly, for each distinct factor of n smaller than ?n, there is a  
distinct factor of n larger
than ?n such that their product is n. Thus, if n is not a perfect  
square, n must have an
even number of distinct factors.

2. Suppose ?n is an integer, i.e., n is a perfect square. Then  
arguing as above, for each
distinct factor of n smaller than ?n, there is a distinct factor of n  
larger than ?n such
that their product is n. Therefore, other than the factor ?n itself,  
n has an even number
of distinct factors. But, ?n, in this case, is also a factor on n.  
Therefore, if n is a perfect
square, n must have an odd number of distinct factors.

This proves that a positive integer n has an odd number of distinct  
factors if and only if
n is odd.

Now, since 1412 = 19881 and 1422 = 20164, there must be exactly 141  
lights that are left



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Nov 24 14:53:50 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:53:50 -0600
Subject: Recent anger - and new guy here
In-Reply-To: <20051124190429.40557.qmail@web32803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BFAB766E.305CA%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/24/05 1:04 PM, "Frank R" <frny4x at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Ok, with the recent anger expressed, and with me being a new guy on the block,
>   let me ask some questions:
>    
>   - What's the size of the company behind this product?  You don't have to
> give precise numbers, but somebody must know if this company is - a thousand
> people - doubt it, a hundred people - still probably doubt it, at least dozens
> of people - probably, and I hope, or one or two people - I don't hope this is
> the case.

Last time I checked it was about a dozen people give or take (of course this
was a year ago and things might have changed).
    
>   - What are the support options?  Do we get 100% of support via the dialog in
> this forum, or is there a way to contact a tech support team at the company
> and occasionally get a good answer?

Well, the support options are listed at the RunRev site
(http://support.runrev.com/pricing/support_info.php), but basically this
list is the "free" support; you can pay for email priority support or phone
support.

>   - What's the frequency of the release of minor levels and major levels of
> the software?

I don't recall specifically, but it seems like it's about 6 months between
minor releases and a year between major ones (something like that) - I might
be misremembering, so if anyone wants to chime in here, that would be great.

>   - Are people out there making a livelihood using this product nearly
> exclusively, or is this rare to nonexistent?

Yes (I am, for one). And I know several others doing this as well. I don't
know how many in total, though.

HTH,


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Nov 24 14:55:26 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:55:26 -0600
Subject: Meeting at MacWorld SF in January 2006
In-Reply-To: <41f804243c32858626dcbcfe2defa172@siphonophore.com>
Message-ID: <BFAB76CE.305CC%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/24/05 1:18 PM, "Jeffrey Reynolds" <jeff at siphonophore.com> wrote:

> And if we get that same result this year, I bet someone will set up
> an offsite BOF. Who needs IDG?

Uh... not to sound like an idiot here, but what does "BOF" mean?


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From jbv.silences at club-internet.fr  Thu Nov 24 15:13:29 2005
From: jbv.silences at club-internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 21:13:29 +0100
Subject: Recent anger - and new guy here
References: <20051124190429.40557.qmail@web32803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43861EDC.79EF008C@club-internet.fr>



Frank,

>
>   - What are the support options?  Do we get 100% of support via the dialog in this forum, or is there a way to contact a tech support team at the company and occasionally get a good answer?

there's a lot of usefull support through this forum (mainly because of the wide range of skills and experiences of the members),
but you can also ask support at runrev.com, and you usually get an answer within 24 hrs.
According to my experience, asking this list first is wiser as there's a great deal of chance that you get the answer within the next
couple of hours; If you need very specific details, then asking runrev support will answer your question.
Last but not least : one good thing about this list is that when ppl don't know the answer, they just keep their mouth shut, instead
of confusing everyone with off-topic theories, like in so many other lists...

>
>
>   - Are people out there making a livelihood using this product nearly exclusively, or is this rare to nonexistent?

I've been making a living with this product since about 1999, either as employee in a company or as a free-lance programer.

>
>   [I'm a long time developer, and I have used Many tools and languages, and while this thing doesn't look like the tool for All jobs, it does look like The Tool for some jobs.
>   So, I start out my journey here enthusiastically until someone tells me otherwise.]
>

Rev is not a tool for all jobs, but nevertheless this product allowed me to build about 90% of the projects I've been asked
during the past 6 years or so.
I usually say that it's the missing link between Director and CodeWarrior...

JB



From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Thu Nov 24 15:10:47 2005
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:10:47 EST
Subject: [TOT] A3 Scanners
Message-ID: <156.5d8fa68d.30b77847@aol.com>

Totally Off Topic... Can anyone recommend an  (affordable) A3 flatbed scanner?
/H  



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Thu Nov 24 15:20:05 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:20:05 -0500
Subject: Recent anger - and the new guy here
Message-ID: <web-339591248@mail.maclaunch.com>

Speaking as the "older anger" . . .

One or 2 things I have learnt (through being angry) are:

1. Keep your feelings to yourself or take them out on a
punch-bag: if you get all hot and sweaty online the only
person who "benefits" is yourself.

2. Runtime Revolution, the company, is like most
organisations: good in parts - and to expect more is
probably rather disingenuous.

3. Support: if you mean answers to questions like "how do I
rotate an image through 27 degrees?" the use-list is the
place to look and ask.  While Runtime Revolution, the RAD,
has an in-built help system, it is also good in parts
insofar as it doesn't work the way everybody's brains work
(how it could beats me as we all think things out in our
own individual ways) - and takes a while to get used to.
Direct support from the company seems to involve money.

As I have, in the past, demonstrated how one can express
anger in the use-list, very effectively, and reaped the
full benefits of that expression of anger: I am surprised
that anybody, now, is so silly and naive as to express any
anger whatsoever! It is generally not a bad thing both to
learn from one's own mistakes and from those of others.

FRANK - if you want any direct answers to the less techy
type of questions (you know, the rotating images type) I am
more than happy to try and help you out off list.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Nov 24 15:27:59 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 20:27:59 +0000
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <p06230905bfaba8e8ef91@[192.168.1.103]>
References: <a05210606bfaba4a06ce5@[192.168.0.101]>
	<p06230905bfaba8e8ef91@[192.168.1.103]>
Message-ID: <a05210600bfabcbbbf557@[192.168.0.101]>

>Dave, it's cool. Take a deep breath. You've got a lot of love in the 
>room on this list.
>
>Complaining, making threats and playing the role of the disgruntled 
>customer won't go as far here as calm discussion. Please be careful 
>about dissing Runrev in particular - your careless comments could 
>scare away lurkers - potential runrev users (and therefore a 
>healthier business, with continued development, etc). I have no 
>doubt that you will find help in this place within hours. The best 
>scripters in the world hang out here.

I've kept quiet about silly problems for a long tine but this just 
took the biscuit!

As for scaring people away, surely it's the bugs that scare people 
away, not me moaning about them! Or are you suggesting that it's 
better to keep quiet and that way fool them into thinking they are 
getting something they are not. Apart from ths dishonesty, I really 
don't think it will work, since if they do buy it and then hit the 
problems they will be far more upset and far more likey to just drop 
RunRev then if they knew there were these kind of stupid problems to 
start with.

>This stage (OUTRAGE+Confusion) is typical of one's self-education in 
>using rev. Either it will be fixed in the next revision or we write 
>a thing to go around it for now. As far as I'm concerned the gains 
>in using this erector set far outweighs any glitches I encounter.

It's not "one's self-education" is a bug in RunRev! All the educating 
in world wouldn't have made it work!

>
>Are you angry enough to write your own Menu Maker? It can be done.

Well of course it can be done! But rather negates the purpose of 
having RunRev in the first place!

Take Care and All the Best
Dave


>>What Gives? Why is this SUCH a difficult thing to do in RunRev? I 
>>don't know any other environment where this is SUCH a big deal, I 
>>could have done this 100 times over in C or even PowerPC assembler!
>>
>>Getting to the end of a long day and I have to get this working 
>>tonight! I really don't want to have to tell my boss that I can't 
>>do this in RunRev and that the support it so bad that you can't 
>>even get someone to look at it!
>>
>>All the Best
>>Dave
>
>--
>stephen barncard
>s a n  f r a n c i s c o
>- - -  - - - - - - - - -
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Thu Nov 24 15:26:09 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:26:09 -0500
Subject: Rotating images . . . ?
Message-ID: <web-339591373@mail.maclaunch.com>

1. When I rotate a GIF that contains transparent areas it
deteriorates . . . this is a bother . . . any bright ideas
how to cope with this one?

2. When I rotate an image by a mouse click:

on mouseUp
  rotate img "egg.gif" by 90
end mouseUp

it develops a dotted border and won't let me do it again
unless I flip between the 'browse' and 'pointer' cursors.

sincerely, Richmond

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Nov 22 02:24:19 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 23:24:19 -0800
Subject: group syntax question
In-Reply-To: <OFCE1B0B06.5A0718D7-ONC12570C1.0026C0A7-C12570C1.002714EB@deutsche-boerse.com>
References: <OFCE1B0B06.5A0718D7-ONC12570C1.0026C0A7-C12570C1.002714EB@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <4541593418.20051121232419@ahsoftware.net>

xavier-

Monday, November 21, 2005, 11:06:51 PM, you wrote:

> Mark!

> That's funny! The Active search stack uses that same function in the
> search button! ;)
> BTW, did you get my modified stack?

...that's the code I'm looking at. I sent you an email earlier today
about not being able to open your stack.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Nov 24 15:44:22 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 20:44:22 +0000
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about whingeing
In-Reply-To: <4386138D.8070204@fourthworld.com>
References: <a05210604bfab907637c1@[192.168.0.101]>
	<4386138D.8070204@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a05210601bfabd310ae50@[192.168.0.101]>

>David -
>
>Your thread was off to a productive start, and then you derailed it 
>with a random rant that benefits neither the good people on this 
>list or yourself.  We all need to write a good ranting email now and 
>then; the trick is to remove the "to" address so you can't send it. 
>;)

lol my out box is full of RunRev rants all with empty "to" fields! 
This time was just the straw that broke.............

>
>Back to the problem at hand, have you noticed that a lot of people 
>here ship a lot of apps, and nearly all of those apps have menubars?
>
>That should have been the first clue that the menu mechanism works.

Yes, I know it *should* work, but so much of RunRev is haphazzard and 
seems to work but then something happens and it just stops working! 
The times just quttting the IDE and reloading fixes problems, or 
copying an object to a another stack, deleting it in the first stack 
and then pasting it back seems to clear problems.
>
>With that now understood, the next step is to identify differences 
>between working and non-working states.
>
>I could find no post in which you listed your menu items.  That may 
>be relevant.

It's the edit menu and the items are the same as when you hit Auto-Script, e.g.

Cut
Copy
Paste
Clear
------------
Preferences (either eith a ... or without)

>
>It may also be worth checking the layer order of the buttons in the 
>menu group.  If you added one later it can throw off the layer 
>order, and while Rev shows menus for 95% of the computing audience 
>in a direct WYSIWYG way, Mac menus are a strange beast that must go 
>through a separate mechanism to be drawn, and ae drawn in the order 
>in which they appear in the menu group.

Yes, I read about that and have ensured I have the correct order.

>
>Also, do you have any scripts that modify the contents of your menu items?

No, although I do enable/disable menu items and this seems to work 
fine on the edit menu, but the preferences entry does not get moved 
to the Applications menu.

>If you build a simple set of menus from scratch in a fresh stack do 
>you see the same problem?

If I do that, it works.

>I've been unable to reproduce your circumstance, so while it doesn't 
>lead us closer to understanding the root cause it does suggest that 
>it's not only fully possible to what you want, it's also easy.  It 
>took me only a minute to hand-build a menu bar in a fresh stack to 
>try to reproduce your problem.
>
>Hang in there.  As you say, you have a deadline. If you use what 
>little time you have productively this can be solved.

The only way I could find to fix it was to delete the original Menu 
Group, create a new one, and then paste the scripts back into it. I 
then had a problem whereby the Menu appeared across the top of the 
stack window (ala Windows OS). After fishing around for ages I found 
that in the "Place Group" there was a group that was no where in any 
stack and had a weird name (something like fgttryiolk). I selected it 
(e.g. placed it) and it appeared in my stack. I then deleted from the 
stack, saved the stack, quit RunRev and restarted and then it 
worked!!!!!

Definitely a bug somewhere along the line. Just wish these stupid 
bugs would be fixed, I will have to stay up til midnight at least 
now, but at least the rest of it should go ok.

Thanks a lot for your support, I won't say sorry for the Rant, 
because sometimes I think it's better to "tell it like it is"! 
However, it was a good natured rant really and I do think RunRev is a 
fantastic beast, but really we need to able to build a menubar in 
less than a day!!!!!

All the Best
Dave
>
>--
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>  ___________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From martyknapp at comcast.net  Thu Nov 24 15:49:37 2005
From: martyknapp at comcast.net (Marty Knapp)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 12:49:37 -0800
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bfabcbbbf557@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210606bfaba4a06ce5@[192.168.0.101]>	<p06230905bfaba8e8ef91@[192.168.1.103]>
	<a05210600bfabcbbbf557@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <43862761.2030201@comcast.net>

David Burgun wrote:

> I've kept quiet about silly problems for a long tine but this just 
> took the biscuit!
>
> As for scaring people away, surely it's the bugs that scare people 
> away, not me moaning about them! Or are you suggesting that it's 
> better to keep quiet and that way fool them into thinking they are 
> getting something they are not. Apart from ths dishonesty, I really 
> don't think it will work, since if they do buy it and then hit the 
> problems they will be far more upset and far more likey to just drop 
> RunRev then if they knew there were these kind of stupid problems to 
> start with.
>
Do you understand David, that this is a user list not the RunRev team? 
Some very smart and helpful people have *volunteered* to help - Ken Ray 
even invited you to send him your problem stack to take a look  -  and 
that on a holiday. Maybe if you weren't so focused on flaming the list 
you could actually make some progress! The people here are not Rev 
employees - they can't fix what is admittedly a clunky menu building 
feature, at least it's very confusing for new users. I guess if I were 
you, I woudn't tick off the people that are trying to help you!

That's my 2 cents.

Marty Knapp



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Nov 24 15:59:53 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 12:59:53 -0800
Subject: Meeting at MacWorld SF in January 2006
In-Reply-To: <BFAB76CE.305CC%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BFAB76CE.305CC%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <CF82C21B-F0DE-4207-9B87-0A18289F4786@inspiredlogic.com>

Birds Of a Feather

http://acronymfinder.com/


On Nov 24, 2005, at 11:55 AM, Ken Ray wrote:

> Uh... not to sound like an idiot here, but what does "BOF" mean?



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Nov 24 16:01:34 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 16:01:34 -0500
Subject: Recent anger - and new guy here
In-Reply-To: <20051124190429.40557.qmail@web32803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051124190429.40557.qmail@web32803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9FF706BE-C5F1-4223-822C-FE70D862A0D3@adelphia.net>

FRANK,

Welcome to Revolution. First off this list is NOT the tech support  
for RunRev so you will often see people complain here about the  
support but meanwhile they never actually open a support case with  
Runtime Revolution. I have opened only one case with RunRev and they  
where quick to help and great on the follow up. There were a few  
times I wanted to open a case but this list of helpful individuals  
has always been there for me and did away with the need for that.

I don't know how many people are employed by RunRev. Why don't you  
ask them? They certainly have enough to run support, marketing,  
sales, website and programming updates and bug fixes.

I pay for an Enterprise license and get so many support cases  
included. But there are many options and just like every other  
software company you can pay for individual cases. But again this  
list of wonderful people is the first place to go to for help. They  
are very experienced and unlike other products it seems that Rev  
users WANT to help newbies and oldtimers with questions.

I believe the fixes are one to two a year with major enhancements  
every year so far.

I make a living using Rev as a Rapid Prototyping Tool. And I write  
small applications on the side that I hope will become valuable to  
others. I replaced MM Director as our tool of choice.

Hope you find this useful.

Tom

On Nov 24, 2005, at 2:04 PM, Frank R wrote:

> Ok, with the recent anger expressed, and with me being a new guy on  
> the block,
>   let me ask some questions:
>
>   - What's the size of the company behind this product?  You don't  
> have to give precise numbers, but somebody must know if this  
> company is - a thousand people - doubt it, a hundred people - still  
> probably doubt it, at least dozens of people - probably, and I  
> hope, or one or two people - I don't hope this is the case.
>
>   - What are the support options?  Do we get 100% of support via  
> the dialog in this forum, or is there a way to contact a tech  
> support team at the company and occasionally get a good answer?
>
>   - What's the frequency of the release of minor levels and major  
> levels of the software?
>
>   - Are people out there making a livelihood using this product  
> nearly exclusively, or is this rare to nonexistent?
>
>   Thanks.
>   [I'm a long time developer, and I have used Many tools and  
> languages, and while this thing doesn't look like the tool for All  
> jobs, it does look like The Tool for some jobs.
>   So, I start out my journey here enthusiastically until someone  
> tells me otherwise.]
>
>   Frank
>   ____________________________________________________________________
>
> Stephen Barncard <stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com> wrote:
>   Dave, it's cool. Take a deep breath. You've got a lot of love in the
> room on this list.
>
> Complaining, making threats and playing the role of the disgruntled
> customer won't go as far here as calm discussion. Please be careful
> about dissing Runrev in particular - your careless comments could
> scare away lurkers - potential runrev users (and therefore a
> healthier business, with continued development, etc). I have no doubt
> that you will find help in this place within hours. The best
> scripters in the world hang out here.
>
> This stage (OUTRAGE+Confusion) is typical of one's self-education in
> using rev. Either it will be fixed in the next revision or we write a
> thing to go around it for now. As far as I'm concerned the gains in
> using this erector set far outweighs any glitches I encounter.
>
> Are you angry enough to write your own Menu Maker? It can be done.
>
>> What Gives? Why is this SUCH a difficult thing to do in RunRev? I
>> don't know any other environment where this is SUCH a big deal, I
>> could have done this 100 times over in C or even PowerPC assembler!
>>
>> Getting to the end of a long day and I have to get this working
>> tonight! I really don't want to have to tell my boss that I can't do
>> this in RunRev and that the support it so bad that you can't even
>> get someone to look at it!
>>
>> All the Best
>> Dave
>
> -- 
> stephen barncard
> s a n f r a n c i s c o
> - - - - - - - - - - - -
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Nov 24 16:29:27 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:29:27 -0800
Subject: OT Last week's CarTalk puzzler
In-Reply-To: <p06230903bfabbd9a3a1a@[69\.19\.229\.121]>
References: <20051124180006.3466D825256@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230903bfabbd9a3a1a@[69.19.229.121]>
Message-ID: <2513904022.20051124132927@ahsoftware.net>

Jim-

Thursday, November 24, 2005, 11:05:18 AM, you wrote:

> Moral: Better to make two slips than one, particularly when the
> answer is binary.

I always try to make pairs of errors at once. That way I have a 50%
chance of them canceling each other out.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Nov 24 16:33:14 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:33:14 -0800
Subject: Meeting at MacWorld SF in January 2006
In-Reply-To: <41f804243c32858626dcbcfe2defa172@siphonophore.com>
References: <20051124101859.AD6F7825103@mail.runrev.com>
	<41f804243c32858626dcbcfe2defa172@siphonophore.com>
Message-ID: <10214131349.20051124133314@ahsoftware.net>

Jeffrey-

Thursday, November 24, 2005, 11:18:21 AM, you wrote:

> A number of years back a few of us (then metacarders) met up for coffee
> at the show, was just nice to see the faces to go with the online text
> picture that had been created in my head! I am hoping a project will be
> starting in Oakland about then and I can get a trip out west to also
> attend the show and if so im game for something simple!

We usually get a dinner together at the show. This year my own time is
rather limited in the evenings. If you want to see faces, check out

http://www.frappr.com/runtimerevolution

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From gilbert at isphlg.rimed.cu  Thu Nov 24 17:27:59 2005
From: gilbert at isphlg.rimed.cu (Gilberto Cuba)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 17:27:59 -0500
Subject: Messages in setprop...
Message-ID: <001d01c5f146$5ca6d7d0$1c037b98@p42600>

Hi,

I'm working in a "setprop" of the "property set", that is to say, group of property, and detect that I modified or set a value of a property of the same group or "property set", the message dont triggered. How I can do this message occur?

Example: 

setprop MyPropSet[propName] newValue

switch propName
case "Prop1"
  -- (1)
  set the MyPropSet["Prop3"] of me to value   
  break
case "Prop2"
  ...
  -- do something...
  ...
  break
case "Prop3"
  ...
  ...do something...  (2)
  ...
  break
end switch

end setprop

When i set a value to a property "Prop1", it come in to (1), but when the next line is executing, it dont pass for (2).
I hope you might understand.

Best regards,

Gilberto Cuba

PD: I request my excuses for my english. I'm speaking spanish.  :DDD

From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Nov 24 16:35:11 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:35:11 -0800
Subject: group syntax question
In-Reply-To: <4541593418.20051121232419@ahsoftware.net>
References: <OFCE1B0B06.5A0718D7-ONC12570C1.0026C0A7-C12570C1.002714EB@deutsche-boerse.com>
	<4541593418.20051121232419@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <8314248588.20051124133511@ahsoftware.net>

Mark-

Monday, November 21, 2005, 11:24:19 PM, you wrote:

> ..that's the code I'm looking at. I sent you an email earlier today.
> about not being able to open your stack.

Interesting. This posting took three days to make it to the list. I
must have been using slow electrons on Monday.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Thu Nov 24 16:43:09 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 22:43:09 +0100
Subject: About bugs (was This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! - was
	Menubar Help)
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bfabcbbbf557@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210606bfaba4a06ce5@[192.168.0.101]>
	<p06230905bfaba8e8ef91@[192.168.1.103]>
	<a05210600bfabcbbbf557@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <75CDC256-2EAA-4509-99CB-BC4459145FC4@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Dave,

I have some experience in XTalks since 20 years...
I have seen many people like you moaning about what they call *bugs*.
In my experience today, I may ensure you that, 99 times out of one  
hundred, I *know* that the reason is a bad code and , sometimes in a  
place I get pain to find it :-).
Before saying: that's a bug, please, try to reproduce it in a fresh  
new stack.
If you can't reproduce it, it means that your stack has a coding  
problem.
Then don't waste your time: search, track and solve :-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

PS. In your case, as others told you, your stack is the problem, not  
Rev.

Le 24 nov. 05 ? 21:27, David Burgun a ?crit :

> As for scaring people away, surely it's the bugs that scare people  
> away, not me moaning about them! Or are you suggesting that it's  
> better to keep quiet and that way fool them into thinking they are  
> getting something they are not. Apart from ths dishonesty, I really  
> don't think it will work, since if they do buy it and then hit the  
> problems they will be far more upset and far more likey to just  
> drop RunRev then if they knew there were these kind of stupid  
> problems to start with.


----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Nov 24 17:04:10 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 22:04:10 +0000
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <43862761.2030201@comcast.net>
References: <a05210606bfaba4a06ce5@[192.168.0.101]>
	<p06230905bfaba8e8ef91@[192.168.1.103]>
	<a05210600bfabcbbbf557@[192.168.0.101]> <43862761.2030201@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <a05210600bfabe8d85d77@[192.168.0.101]>

>David Burgun wrote:
>
>>I've kept quiet about silly problems for a long tine but this just 
>>took the biscuit!
>>
>>As for scaring people away, surely it's the bugs that scare people 
>>away, not me moaning about them! Or are you suggesting that it's 
>>better to keep quiet and that way fool them into thinking they are 
>>getting something they are not. Apart from ths dishonesty, I really 
>>don't think it will work, since if they do buy it and then hit the 
>>problems they will be far more upset and far more likey to just 
>>drop RunRev then if they knew there were these kind of stupid 
>>problems to start with.
>>
>Do you understand David, that this is a user list not the RunRev 
>team? Some very smart and helpful people have *volunteered* to help 
>- Ken Ray even invited you to send him your problem stack to take a 
>look  -  and that on a holiday. Maybe if you weren't so focused on 
>flaming the list you could actually make some progress! The people 
>here are not Rev employees - they can't fix what is admittedly a 
>clunky menu building feature, at least it's very confusing for new 
>users. I guess if I were you, I woudn't tick off the people that are 
>trying to help you!
>
>That's my 2 cents.

I know all that, decided to rant anyway.

The problem is that is a bug and the documentaion is poor. This is 
true whether I Rant or not. If I don't rant I am sure nothing will be 
done about it, if I do rant I am fairly sure nothing will be done 
about it. So decided to rant!

Take Care and All the Best
Dave


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Nov 24 17:04:55 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 17:04:55 -0500
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about whingeing
In-Reply-To: <a05210601bfabd310ae50@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210604bfab907637c1@[192.168.0.101]>
	<4386138D.8070204@fourthworld.com>
	<a05210601bfabd310ae50@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <60BA7419-696F-4D61-8CBE-06B2ABE3BE37@adelphia.net>

David,

This definitely sounds like a user error. If you have more than one  
menu group it will create confusion. If the group "fgttryiolk" is in  
the place menu then it was because you 'the user' created it first,  
Rev certainly did not create it or put it in your stack. Rev gets  
blamed for things like this all of the time.
What probably happened was that you were trying to figure out what  
was wrong and either copied or created a menu group and while it was  
still selected accidently typed in the name field, then deleted this  
background group from that particular card but it was still in the  
stack. Then you created a new group and had two menu groups and were  
trying to fix the one but the other one was still there.

The best approach is always to create a sample stack and put a menu  
into it to see if it works and that you understand what you are doing  
in that stack then try and figure out what you did wrong in the  
broken stack.

Don't feel bad though, I certainly blame Rev first and then the Gods  
of programming before I grudgingly look at myself as the culprit.  
Most times if I post here others will point this out quickly and then  
I go OHH, sorry it was me after all. The only problem is that the  
thread looks like Rev is the problem but in reality it was me all along.

Next time it would be better not to put "what REALLY SUCKS about Rev"  
in the subject line when after all it more than likely and in this  
case was your mistake.

I hope that this helps.

Tom

On Nov 24, 2005, at 3:44 PM, David Burgun wrote:

> The only way I could find to fix it was to delete the original Menu  
> Group, create a new one, and then paste the scripts back into it. I  
> then had a problem whereby the Menu appeared across the top of the  
> stack window (ala Windows OS). After fishing around for ages I  
> found that in the "Place Group" there was a group that was no where  
> in any stack and had a weird name (something like fgttryiolk). I  
> selected it (e.g. placed it) and it appeared in my stack. I then  
> deleted from the stack, saved the stack, quit RunRev and restarted  
> and then it worked!!!!!



From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Thu Nov 24 17:07:03 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 22:07:03 +0000
Subject: Messages in setprop...
In-Reply-To: <001d01c5f146$5ca6d7d0$1c037b98@p42600>
References: <001d01c5f146$5ca6d7d0$1c037b98@p42600>
Message-ID: <E31C5D3A-E853-4E4F-9F00-7A4ADB86B4D9@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 24 Nov 2005, at 22:27, Gilberto Cuba wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm working in a "setprop" of the "property set", that is to say,  
> group of property, and detect that I modified or set a value of a  
> property of the same group or "property set", the message dont  
> triggered. How I can do this message occur?
>
> Example:
>
> setprop MyPropSet[propName] newValue
>
> switch propName
> case "Prop1"
>   -- (1)
>   set the MyPropSet["Prop3"] of me to value
>   break
> case "Prop2"
>   ...
>   -- do something...
>   ...
>   break
> case "Prop3"
>   ...
>   ...do something...  (2)
>   ...
>   break
> end switch
>
> end setprop
>
> When i set a value to a property "Prop1", it come in to (1), but  
> when the next line is executing, it dont pass for (2).
> I hope you might understand.

The following is from the Rev documentation under "setprop".

"If you use the set command within a setProp control structure to set  
the same custom property for the current object, no setProp trigger  
is sent to the object. (This is to avoid runaway recursion, where the  
setProp handler triggers itself.)"

I assume this also applies with "property set" handlers too.

Depending on what you are wanting to do, there are probably a number  
of ways to get round this. My first suggestion would be to use a  
regular handler or function instead of a setprop handler.

Cheers
Dave


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Nov 24 17:13:52 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 22:13:52 +0000
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about whingeing
In-Reply-To: <60BA7419-696F-4D61-8CBE-06B2ABE3BE37@adelphia.net>
References: <a05210604bfab907637c1@[192.168.0.101]>
	<4386138D.8070204@fourthworld.com>
	<a05210601bfabd310ae50@[192.168.0.101]>
	<60BA7419-696F-4D61-8CBE-06B2ABE3BE37@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <a05210601bfabe9ab8f1c@[192.168.0.101]>

>David,
>
>This definitely sounds like a user error. If you have more than one 
>menu group it will create confusion. If the group "fgttryiolk" is in 
>the place menu then it was because you 'the user' created it first, 
>Rev certainly did not create it or put it in your stack. Rev gets 
>blamed for things like this all of the time.

I am 100% sure I didn't create it. I reckon it was some kind of 
corruption in stack file. I don't think it was a menu group 
specifically just a random bunch of bytes that "looked" like a group. 
But anyway, even if I had created it, how come it wasn't listed in 
any stack? E.g. when I looked in the App browser, there was no 
control with the name "fgttryiolk"  anywhere in any card of any stack.


>What probably happened was that you were trying to figure out what 
>was wrong and either copied or created a menu group and while it was 
>still selected accidently typed in the name field, then deleted this 
>background group from that particular card but it was still in the 
>stack. Then you created a new group and had two menu groups and were 
>trying to fix the one but the other one was still there.

No, this was not the case, see above.

>The best approach is always to create a sample stack and put a menu 
>into it to see if it works and that you understand what you are 
>doing in that stack then try and figure out what you did wrong in 
>the broken stack.

This was/is a simple stack, with just the Menu Group in it. Can't get 
much simpler than that!

>Don't feel bad though, I certainly blame Rev first and then the Gods 
>of programming before I grudgingly look at myself as the culprit. 
>Most times if I post here others will point this out quickly and 
>then I go OHH, sorry it was me after all. The only problem is that 
>the thread looks like Rev is the problem but in reality it was me 
>all along.

I don't feel bad, it was nothing I did. This was a problem in RunRev, 
not a user error. See above.


>Next time it would be better not to put "what REALLY SUCKS about 
>Rev" in the subject line when after all it more than likely and in 
>this case was your mistake.

In this case it was not my mistake. It was a BUG IN RUNREV and this 
really is what really does suck about RunRev.

Take Care and All the Best
Dave

>I hope that this helps.
>
>Tom
>
>On Nov 24, 2005, at 3:44 PM, David Burgun wrote:
>
>>The only way I could find to fix it was to delete the original Menu 
>>Group, create a new one, and then paste the scripts back into it. I 
>>then had a problem whereby the Menu appeared across the top of the 
>>stack window (ala Windows OS). After fishing around for ages I 
>>found that in the "Place Group" there was a group that was no where 
>>in any stack and had a weird name (something like fgttryiolk). I 
>>selected it (e.g. placed it) and it appeared in my stack. I then 
>>deleted from the stack, saved the stack, quit RunRev and restarted 
>>and then it worked!!!!!
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From pixelbird at interisland.net  Thu Nov 24 17:26:05 2005
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 14:26:05 -0800
Subject: Happy Thanksgving
Message-ID: <ce37b85f85632d52503498e74df73cc2@interisland.net>

Directed to list members in the U.S.

Happy Thanksgiving!

All the best,
Ken N.



From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Thu Nov 24 17:27:04 2005
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 16:27:04 -0600
Subject: Happy Thanksgving
In-Reply-To: <ce37b85f85632d52503498e74df73cc2@interisland.net>
References: <ce37b85f85632d52503498e74df73cc2@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <3C5DFFFE-5CEA-4C9E-996A-2459D7925451@earthlink.net>

And to you, Ken!

Marian
On Nov 24, 2005, at 4:26 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Directed to list members in the U.S.
>
> Happy Thanksgiving!
>
> All the best,
> Ken N.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Nov 24 17:29:35 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 17:29:35 -0500
Subject: Mysterious Bug that puts menu groups into stacks
Message-ID: <82F04D19-9684-4C74-A7F4-229C3484D071@adelphia.net>

Hello Revolutionaries,

Has anyone ever had Rev actually put a menu group into a stack "all  
by itself"? On the other thread David swears that this is the case  
and that he didn't put it there. I find this very hard to believe and  
I would like to know if it is true. So has this ever happened to  
anyone else?

The clue for me that this might be a user mistake is the name of the  
group ""fgttryiolk" which is closely  grouped on the keyboard for  
both hands while typing. I have had object names change to something  
like this "ffefskjil" but it was usually because I forgot the object  
was selected when I touched the keyboard. Or occasionally the cat  
runs across my keyboard. But that is a separate issue. The real issue  
is whether or not Rev is capable of, just out of the blue, all by  
itself, in some weird anomaly, due to some bug, adding it's own menu  
group and then renaming it to closely related keys on the keyboard  
and then deleting it from the current card but leaving it in the  
stack and in the "Place" menu.

Let me know,

Tom


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Nov 24 17:34:09 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 17:34:09 -0500
Subject: Happy Thanksgving
In-Reply-To: <ce37b85f85632d52503498e74df73cc2@interisland.net>
References: <ce37b85f85632d52503498e74df73cc2@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <0F1AA083-F999-4C85-B158-4050C7855DE5@adelphia.net>

Ken,

Thank you so much. Happy Thanksgiving to you too! Happy Thanksgiving  
to all Revers here on the list. And if you don't celebrate  
Thanksgiving then just accept my thanks for giving so much of  
yourselves to this list. Thank you.

I know in some parts of the world that they do have celebrate the  
bounty of a good harvest. In India they have a Harvest Celebration in  
January. I wonder if ours didn't start out that way and then turned  
into some kinda pilgrim day thing.


Thanks again,

Tom

On Nov 24, 2005, at 5:26 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

> Directed to list members in the U.S.
>
> Happy Thanksgiving!
>
> All the best,
> Ken N.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Nov 24 17:39:04 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 22:39:04 +0000
Subject: Recent anger - and new guy here
In-Reply-To: <20051124190429.40557.qmail@web32803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051124190429.40557.qmail@web32803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a05210602bfabeca040f4@[192.168.0.101]>

>Ok, with the recent anger expressed, and with me being a new guy on the block,
>   let me ask some questions:
>
>   - What's the size of the company behind this product?  You don't 
>have to give precise numbers, but somebody must know if this company 
>is - a thousand people - doubt it, a hundred people - still probably 
>doubt it, at least dozens of people - probably, and I hope, or one 
>or two people - I don't hope this is the case.

I'd guess at dozens.
>   
>   - What are the support options?  Do we get 100% of support via the 
>dialog in this forum, or is there a way to contact a tech support 
>team at the company and occasionally get a good answer?
>

Check the web site, there are different packages, the basic studio 
version there is no support included, you can pay for tecch support 
indcidents at around ?75 PH I think, but again check the web site. 
The enterprize edition comes with some support I think.

>   - What's the frequency of the release of minor levels and major 
>levels of the software?

Minor levels don't seem to be announced, you have to download the 
package and check the build number. More major updates are announced 
and I reckon since I've been using it there are around 3 per year.


>   
>   - Are people out there making a livelihood using this product 
>nearly exclusively, or is this rare to nonexistent?

Yes, I am using it to develop applications that will be sold. It 
makes solid good applications - once you get over the silly bugs that 
just don't seem to go away. Having said that, I have not found a 
situation that I have not been able to work around, and this list is 
just GREAT. Actually, without it, I think RunRev would just die.
>   
>   Thanks.
>   [I'm a long time developer, and I have used Many tools and 
>languages, and while this thing doesn't look like the tool for All 
>jobs, it does look like The Tool for some jobs.
>   So, I start out my journey here enthusiastically until someone 
>tells me otherwise.]
>

I decided to rant today to let off some steam. The problem is that 
you get SOOOOOOO much done so quickly that when you hit one these 
"silly" problems it is amplified. What I mean is that I coded a 
whole, fairly complex window with loads of controls and images in 
about 2.5 days. I then spent most of a day trying to fathom a bug in 
the RunRev system, the bug is probably else where from the menu 
system and caused a corruption.

I have not found a task that you cannot do with RunRev, you may need 
to develop some external commands written in C/C++, but I would say 
designing and implenting a GUI is FAR faster than any other 
environment I have used (and I've been in software development for 
over 25 years, the last 12 on Mac with some Windows).

The thing I am moaning about really is that the documentation is 
really poor and there are some really silly bugs that just don't seem 
to get fixed, but at the same time there are more new features added.

Part of the problem is that the IDE is also written in RunRev so 
intreraction between (perhaps buggy) scripts and the development 
system occur.

I really would like them to just do a bug fix/IDE enhancement 
release, in fact I think it is NEEDED if RunRev is going to grow to 
any size, and I sincerly hope it does, it is a REAL pleasure to build 
an Application in RunRev and it really is a fantastic product. it's 
how I've always imagined it should be, since the first time I really 
understood OOP and GUI's!

Hope this helps
All the Best
Dave

>   Frank
>   ____________________________________________________________________
>
>Stephen Barncard <stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com> wrote:
>   Dave, it's cool. Take a deep breath. You've got a lot of love in the
>room on this list.
>
>Complaining, making threats and playing the role of the disgruntled
>customer won't go as far here as calm discussion. Please be careful
>about dissing Runrev in particular - your careless comments could
>scare away lurkers - potential runrev users (and therefore a
>healthier business, with continued development, etc). I have no doubt
>that you will find help in this place within hours. The best
>scripters in the world hang out here.
>
>This stage (OUTRAGE+Confusion) is typical of one's self-education in
>using rev. Either it will be fixed in the next revision or we write a
>thing to go around it for now. As far as I'm concerned the gains in
>using this erector set far outweighs any glitches I encounter.
>
>Are you angry enough to write your own Menu Maker? It can be done.
>
>>What Gives? Why is this SUCH a difficult thing to do in RunRev? I
>>don't know any other environment where this is SUCH a big deal, I
>>could have done this 100 times over in C or even PowerPC assembler!
>>
>>Getting to the end of a long day and I have to get this working
>>tonight! I really don't want to have to tell my boss that I can't do
>>this in RunRev and that the support it so bad that you can't even
>>get someone to look at it!
>>
>>All the Best
>>Dave
>
>--
>stephen barncard
>s a n f r a n c i s c o
>- - - - - - - - - - - -
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jason at polydiam.com  Thu Nov 24 17:45:48 2005
From: jason at polydiam.com (Jason - Polydiam.com)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 22:45:48 -0000
Subject: How to show up a print dialog box
Message-ID: <ECOWS06MqzJrveJXBYv00012ceb@smtp-out6.blueyonder.co.uk>

I'm trying to print an image to a specified paper size; 8"x10".

  

 

set the printRotated to true

 

  open printing with dialog

  

  print stack "Target" into 15,15,400,400

    

  close printing 

 

but it does not show the print dialog box (so a user can change the paper
size)

anyone know how to get it to show the print dialog box and still print into
the specified coordinates on the paper (and landscape)

Thanks

 

Jason

 

 

 



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Nov 24 17:49:20 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 22:49:20 +0000
Subject: Mysterious Bug that puts menu groups into stacks
In-Reply-To: <82F04D19-9684-4C74-A7F4-229C3484D071@adelphia.net>
References: <82F04D19-9684-4C74-A7F4-229C3484D071@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <a05210603bfabf1e87e8f@[192.168.0.101]>

>Hello Revolutionaries,
>
>Has anyone ever had Rev actually put a menu group into a stack "all 
>by itself"? On the other thread David swears that this is the case 
>and that he didn't put it there. I find this very hard to believe 
>and I would like to know if it is true. So has this ever happened to 
>anyone else?

It wasn't specifcally a Menu Group! Just a Group with a whole load of 
garbage properties. It didn't appear in any of the cards/stacks in 
the application browser.

It ONLY appeared in the Place Group sub-menu. When I placed the Group 
it then appeared in the App Browser, then I could delete it and then 
it worked!!!!!

The bug could well in the "Place Group" code.

>
>The clue for me that this might be a user mistake is the name of the 
>group ""fgttryiolk" which is closely  grouped on the keyboard for 
>both hands while typing. I have had object names change to something 
>like this "ffefskjil" but it was usually because I forgot the object 
>was selected when I touched the keyboard. Or occasionally the cat 
>runs across my keyboard. But that is a separate issue. The real 
>issue is whether or not Rev is capable of, just out of the blue, all 
>by itself, in some weird anomaly, due to some bug, adding it's own 
>menu group and then renaming it to closely related keys on the 
>keyboard and then deleting it from the current card but leaving it 
>in the stack and in the "Place" menu.

I said it was named *something like* "fgttryiolk" not that it *was* 
"fgttryiolk", I really can't remember what it was called, but was 
some ASCII characters, like a piece of scratch memory, it could have 
been "mrqjhsxhdp", I really don't know now, all I wanted to do was to 
be rid of it!

Take Care and All the Best
Dave


From jason at polydiam.com  Thu Nov 24 18:10:36 2005
From: jason at polydiam.com (Jason - Polydiam.com)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 23:10:36 -0000
Subject: How to show up a print dialog box
Message-ID: <ECOWS01MgPasSmz6UuE00000109@smtp-out1.blueyonder.co.uk>

By the way I'm using windows XP, I just can't get the print dialog box to
come up with these commands.

Anyone know any other commands I could use to print the images into a
specified size and show up the printer dialog box?

----------------------------------------------------

I?m trying to print an image to a specified paper size; 8?x10?.
? 

set the printRotated to true

? open printing with dialog
? 
? print stack "Target" into 15,15,400,400
??? 
? close printing 

but it does not show the print dialog box (so a user can change the paper
size)
anyone know how to get it to show the print dialog box and still print into
the specified coordinates on the paper (and landscape)
Thanks

Jason






From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Thu Nov 24 18:13:09 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:13:09 -0800
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bfabe8d85d77@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210606bfaba4a06ce5@[192.168.0.101]>
	<p06230905bfaba8e8ef91@[192.168.1.103]>
	<a05210600bfabcbbbf557@[192.168.0.101]>
	<43862761.2030201@comcast.net>
	<a05210600bfabe8d85d77@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <1DED2654-9A82-4B29-A0F8-92611A7A20A8@inspiredlogic.com>

Having tried to help before, I have to ask now: how do you _know_  
this is a bug (in Rev)? Given that you said it worked in a new stack,  
I have to think that this is some sort of mis-configuration of the  
stack that is having the problem.

Several have suggested layering -- basically once the menubar buttons  
and group have been created automatically, you shouldn't touch them  
in any way other than to modify their scripts and contents.

In any case, while you might certainly argue that the mechanism for  
translating Windows menu bars into Mac menu bars is touchy, what you  
have described so far does not demonstrate a bug in Revolution. The  
most that can be said at this point is that there is a way to mis-use  
the menu system, and that the documentation hasn't led you to  
discover what you what you might have done.

If you want to keep calling this a bug, you need to submit a bug  
through bugzilla:

http://support.runrev.com/bugzilla/bugzilla.php

and attach the stack for verification. Once someone has looked at the  
stack and verified that everything looks right and yet works  
incorrectly, _then_ it's a bug.

gc


On Nov 24, 2005, at 2:04 PM, David Burgun wrote:

> The problem is that is a bug and the documentaion is poor. This is  
> true whether I Rant or not. If I don't rant I am sure nothing will  
> be done about it, if I do rant I am fairly sure nothing will be  
> done about it. So decided to rant!



From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Thu Nov 24 18:21:28 2005
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 00:21:28 +0100
Subject: Near completion of Color Pattern Toolkit: IDE, engine,
 and font problems (part two)
Message-ID: <43864AF8.8040602@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

After reporting about IDE issues in my last post I am going to look at 
apparent engine problems having come up during the development of the 
toolkit (or which again came up here). There are now differences 
concerning the operation platforms and hardly any between alternative IDEs.

2. Engine aspects:

When working and experimenting with the present form of the toolkit on a 
Windows XP computer, I noticed an occasional slowdown of performance. It 
could happen that in the middle of redrawing the 19.800 color chars the 
execution would slow down, halt, and start again with a higher speed. 
Once in a while the slowdown is of such an extent that it takes two to 
three minutes to execute the script of the respective button - the 
engine is literally "choking" (normal execution time for the scripts is 
between 500 milliseconds and 4 seconds on my main computer). This 
happens relatively seldom, but it happens during longer sessions. 
Additionally - but maybe for a similar reason - there is a general 
slight and accumulating slowdown of the performance to be noticed.

Saving and/or compacting of the stack does not help, but quitting the 
IDE and starting anew.

These facts reminded me of an engine "leak" - as Scott Raney had called 
it a few yars ago,  that occurred in a "Memory Stack" of mine. After 
about the 500th time a memory tile was turned the application suddenly 
froze. Scott Raney very soon fixed the underlying engine bug; at that 
time bug fixes were achieved mostly on the basis of personal 
correspondence or via the list, as the then Metacard community was 
arguably smaller than the Rev community today. The "Memory Stack" is 
still there and working without freezing or delays 
(<http://www.sanke.org/Software/HolidayMemory.zip>).
The same bug had been responsible for freezing the IDE when using the 
drag command to create colored lines for a higher number of consecutive 
lines.

Examining the slowdown I now have stumbled accross a real (negative) 
killer feature (for Windows XP) that I had attached to a three-year old 
rudimentary version of the color toolkit. I had experimented with using 
small thumb images as color and pattern input for further processing and 
transformation; this was achieved by setting the "screenmouseloc" to the 
pixels of a thumb image and then tranferring the "mousecolor" to the 
matrix of fields. At that time I was using Windows 98 and did not notice 
any delays.

When attaching this feature to my present version of the toolkit I got 
surprises:
Scanning an area of 100X100 pixels of an imported thumb along with 
setting the backcolor of the corresponding chars in the pattern field 
took 36 seconds. Although I had set screenloc to true, the mousecursor 
was still visible, began very fast and showed a quick slowdown of its 
horizontal movements. After finishing the scan I got an error message 
"running low on memory, script aborted", most of the screen became 
white, and a number of controls appeared at odd places, some of them 
more than once. Closing the stack was hardly possible the normal way, 
you had to "grope in the dark" to find where the necessary part of the 
MenuBar had gone to. All this on a Windows XP computer with 2 GHz and 1 
GB RAM.

I then reverted to my old stack (developed on Windows 98) that had the 
scan feature attached and which had a 60 X 45 field matrix, so the 
maximum possible scan area comprised 2700 pixels.

The first scan now took (again on the XP computer) 2700 ms 
(milliseconds), the next 6700 ms, then for each of the next consecutive 
scans an average of additional 6500 ms was needed. No disturbances like 
reported above were to be seen, but when you tried to access a script or 
other parts of the IDE between the scans this was really slow. When 
about 30 seconds scan time have accumulated the IDE breaks down like 
described above.

Using a standalone shows about the same results, so it really must be an 
engine problem. My "Visual C ++" debugger among other things points to 
an "untreated exception at XXXXX, access violation".

Test of the same stack on the Windows 98 computer: Slower speed because 
of somewhat slower CPU, but constant performance, no accumulating slower 
speed and no breakdowns!

Test of the same stack(s) on my vintage Power Book (now with Mac OS 
10.3.9, 667 MHz, 1 GB RAM):

Results of the 60X45 scan: First scan 3500 ms, the consecutive scans an 
additional 250 ms each. The slowing down is there, but no freezing or 
breaking down. Script access is slowed down, and when the stack is 
closed the screen goes black for a moment. Tried up to 6000 accumulated 
milliseconds.

Results of an 150X100 scan on the Mac. First scan 21 seconds, the next 
each about 10 seconds more. No breakdown like on Window XP, but very 
slow overall performance of the stack and the same blackout when closing.

So the engine leak is there on Windows XP and to a lesser extent on 
MacOS. I ran the stack on other XP computers, too, with similar results.

You can inspect and try out the test stack from here: 
<http://www.sanke.org/Software/ScanTest2700.zip>. This stack contains a 
size of the scan area with only relatively small increments of 
performance time that even a Windows XP computer can bear for a short time.

As I write this, the remnants of the last breakdown on the XP computer 
still show: Ragged parts of the screen show as white at the right and 
left side. Although the IDE has been closed some time ago, the File menu 
of the MenuBar is visible at the left upper corner of the screen, at a 
place where it never has been.--

Two other possibly engine-related issues in short:

- When setting the thumbs of a scrollbar through a script and lockscreen 
is set, *two* thumbs appear during the time of the screenloc until it 
extends, the old and new value at the same time. Strange as this is, it 
can of course be remedied by setting the lockscreen only after changing 
scrollbar values.

- Setting screenloc to true also is expected to speed up redrawing after 
screen changes, which works for the whole color char field as well as 
for individual horizontal and vertical lines on it. However when 
creating diagonal lines in the field (by changing the color values in a 
diagonal order) lockscreen actually "slows down" redrawing the screen - 
as compared to no lockscreen set at all. This is definitely contrary to 
what the docs say.-

See you next week with "part three" of my report, this time focusing on 
fonts problems.


Regards,

Wilhelm Sanke
<http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>




From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Nov 24 18:27:41 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 23:27:41 +0000
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <1DED2654-9A82-4B29-A0F8-92611A7A20A8@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <a05210606bfaba4a06ce5@[192.168.0.101]>
	<p06230905bfaba8e8ef91@[192.168.1.103]>
	<a05210600bfabcbbbf557@[192.168.0.101]>	<43862761.2030201@comcast.net>
	<a05210600bfabe8d85d77@[192.168.0.101]>
	<1DED2654-9A82-4B29-A0F8-92611A7A20A8@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bfabfa19c9c9@[192.168.0.101]>

There was a Group in the Place Groups Sub-Menu that was not listed in 
any stack/card in the apps browser. When selected it placed a BLOB in 
the stack window that could not be selected, however, when selected 
from the apps browser window, it could be deleted. Once this was done 
it worked.

How can this not be a bug in RunRev?

>Having tried to help before, I have to ask now: how do you _know_ 
>this is a bug (in Rev)? Given that you said it worked in a new 
>stack, I have to think that this is some sort of mis-configuration 
>of the stack that is having the problem.
>
>Several have suggested layering -- basically once the menubar 
>buttons and group have been created automatically, you shouldn't 
>touch them in any way other than to modify their scripts and 
>contents.
>
>In any case, while you might certainly argue that the mechanism for 
>translating Windows menu bars into Mac menu bars is touchy, what you 
>have described so far does not demonstrate a bug in Revolution. The 
>most that can be said at this point is that there is a way to 
>mis-use the menu system, and that the documentation hasn't led you 
>to discover what you what you might have done.
>
>If you want to keep calling this a bug, you need to submit a bug 
>through bugzilla:
>
>http://support.runrev.com/bugzilla/bugzilla.php
>
>and attach the stack for verification. Once someone has looked at 
>the stack and verified that everything looks right and yet works 
>incorrectly, _then_ it's a bug.


I have no clue what to file it under and the stack doesn't have the 
problem anymore.

All the Best
Dave



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 24 17:50:47 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 14:50:47 -0800
Subject: Submitting a Rave to balance a Rant
In-Reply-To: <web-339591248@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <BFAB83C7.30F1D%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>


One of the things I love about Rev is the short development time.
Started this morning to do a knock off of  a customer spreadsheet, fairly
simple, but will need to add Rev functionality later
Made 20 fields to mimic columns, added formatting, and some calc loops,
array building, filtering, legend, sub stack,
THEN...
on mouseDoubleUp
  put the ticks into startt --ticks are 1/60 of a second
...
set the lockscreen to true
get values from a sub stack
import small tab data file
run 8 functions to get/set field values and sizes
do interface tidy routines
...
  put "elapsed = " & (the ticks - startt) & ? ticks? into msg
end mouseDoubleUp

RESULT        "elapsed = 0 ticks" or "elapsed = 1 ticks"

150 lines of Transcript, 9 short repeat loops
 [ Mac OSX, Tiger 10.4.2, Rev 2.6.1, G5 dual 2.0 GHz]

This should impress my client on Friday.
4 hours to build a working prototype.
Oh, and I will take about a minute to compile this as an exe for his XP
machine.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

Happy Thanksgiving, for those who celebrate!


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Nov 24 18:51:34 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 23:51:34 +0000
Subject: About bugs (was This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! - was
 Menubar Help)
In-Reply-To: <75CDC256-2EAA-4509-99CB-BC4459145FC4@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <a05210606bfaba4a06ce5@[192.168.0.101]>
	<p06230905bfaba8e8ef91@[192.168.1.103]>
	<a05210600bfabcbbbf557@[192.168.0.101]>
	<75CDC256-2EAA-4509-99CB-BC4459145FC4@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <a05210602bfac01116d67@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi Eric,

I always do try to reproduce the problem etc. In this case though it 
really is a bug, if not in the menu handling, then else where in 
RunRev.

There was a Group in the Place Groups Sub-Menu that was not listed in 
any stack/card in the apps browser. When selected it placed a BLOB in 
the stack window that could not be selected, however, when selected 
from the apps browser window, it could be deleted. Once this was done 
it worked.

There was no code that could cause this type of problem, just the 
scripts generated by Auto-Script, e.g. a menuPick and empty case 
statement, and besides that, the problem was that the menu did not 
get moved into the Application menu. No code was needed for this to 
occur.

All the Best
Dave


>Hi Dave,
>
>I have some experience in XTalks since 20 years...
>I have seen many people like you moaning about what they call *bugs*.
>In my experience today, I may ensure you that, 99 times out of one 
>hundred, I *know* that the reason is a bad code and , sometimes in a 
>place I get pain to find it :-).
>Before saying: that's a bug, please, try to reproduce it in a fresh new stack.
>If you can't reproduce it, it means that your stack has a coding problem.
>Then don't waste your time: search, track and solve :-)
>
>Best Regards from Paris,
>
>Eric Chatonet.
>
>PS. In your case, as others told you, your stack is the problem, not Rev.
>
>Le 24 nov. 05 ? 21:27, David Burgun a ?crit :
>
>>As for scaring people away, surely it's the bugs that scare people 
>>away, not me moaning about them! Or are you suggesting that it's 
>>better to keep quiet and that way fool them into thinking they are 
>>getting something they are not. Apart from ths dishonesty, I really 
>>don't think it will work, since if they do buy it and then hit the 
>>problems they will be far more upset and far more likey to just 
>>drop RunRev then if they knew there were these kind of stupid 
>>problems to start with.
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>So Smart Software
>
>For institutions, companies and associations
>Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
>Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
>Free plugins and tutorials on my website
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
>Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
>Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
>Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From gilbert at isphlg.rimed.cu  Thu Nov 24 20:04:13 2005
From: gilbert at isphlg.rimed.cu (Gilberto Cuba)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 20:04:13 -0500
Subject: Messages in setprop...
Message-ID: <00a601c5f15c$2f2e5ce0$1c037b98@p42600>



Hi,

I'm working in a "setprop" of the "property set", that is to say, group of property, and detect that I modified or set a value of a property of the same group or "property set", the message dont triggered. How I can do this message occur?

Example: 

setprop MyPropSet[propName] newValue

switch propName
case "Prop1"
  -- (1)
  set the MyPropSet["Prop3"] of me to value   
  break
case "Prop2"
  ...
  -- do something...
  ...
  break
case "Prop3"
  ...
  ...do something...  (2)
  ...
  break
end switch

end setprop

When i set a value to a property "Prop1", it come in to (1), but when the next line is executing, it dont pass for (2).
I hope you might understand.

Best regards,

Gilberto Cuba

PD: I request my excuses for my english. I'm speaking spanish.  :DDD

From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Thu Nov 24 18:42:16 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 23:42:16 +0000
Subject: Submitting a Rave to balance a Rant
In-Reply-To: <BFAB83C7.30F1D%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
References: <BFAB83C7.30F1D%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a05210601bfabfecae3ff@[192.168.0.101]>

Yep! That's what's great about RunRev all right and why I love it. I 
did amost exactly the same thing this week, massively productive. The 
problem is that all this spoilled when you hit one of these horrible 
IDE/Engine/Whatever problems! It has taken me the best part of a day 
trying to the simplest of things.

I suppose what makes it worse is if you and a task to do and you've 
coded in the environment before you can make a good estimate of how 
long it will take to finish. But if you hit one of these No-Way-Out 
problems all your estimates go out the window.

For instance, if I had coded this in C/C++ using a GUI framework, I 
would have scheduled more time, BUT I would be 100% certain that I 
wouldn't have spent a day making a Menu work!!!! The point I am 
making is that no one likes to feel their time is being wasted, by 
that I mean I would rather spend 7 days working productivly on a 
C/C++ app, then 2 days coding a runrev app and 1 day making a menu 
work!

All the Best
Dave

>One of the things I love about Rev is the short development time.
>Started this morning to do a knock off of  a customer spreadsheet, fairly
>simple, but will need to add Rev functionality later
>Made 20 fields to mimic columns, added formatting, and some calc loops,
>array building, filtering, legend, sub stack,
>THEN...
>on mouseDoubleUp
>   put the ticks into startt --ticks are 1/60 of a second
>...
>set the lockscreen to true
>get values from a sub stack
>import small tab data file
>run 8 functions to get/set field values and sizes
>do interface tidy routines
>...
>   put "elapsed = " & (the ticks - startt) & " ticks" into msg
>end mouseDoubleUp
>
>RESULT        "elapsed = 0 ticks" or "elapsed = 1 ticks"
>
>150 lines of Transcript, 9 short repeat loops
>  [ Mac OSX, Tiger 10.4.2, Rev 2.6.1, G5 dual 2.0 GHz]
>
>This should impress my client on Friday.
>4 hours to build a working prototype.
>Oh, and I will take about a minute to compile this as an exe for his XP
>machine.
>
>Jim Ault
>Las Vegas
>
>Happy Thanksgiving, for those who celebrate!
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Nov 24 19:20:22 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 19:20:22 -0500
Subject: Mysterious Bug that puts menu groups into stacks
In-Reply-To: <a05210603bfabf1e87e8f@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <82F04D19-9684-4C74-A7F4-229C3484D071@adelphia.net>
	<a05210603bfabf1e87e8f@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <333D4C4E-31E7-4513-A131-206F6DD1056C@adelphia.net>

David,

That's okay. I mean I wanted to get some other opinions on the issue.  
I don't know if the name is important or not. That is why I started a  
new thread. If others have seen it or anything like it than I would  
like to see it entered into Bugzilla as a true bug or else it would  
have to be thrown into a user contributable error.

It's no big deal, but true Bugs need to be detailed and reported with  
reproducible results in order to get fixed. I searched Bugzilla and  
could not find a bug like this so I decided to ask the others here on  
the list.

Yours,

Tom

On Nov 24, 2005, at 5:49 PM, David Burgun wrote:

>> Hello Revolutionaries,
>>
>> Has anyone ever had Rev actually put a menu group into a stack  
>> "all by itself"? On the other thread David swears that this is the  
>> case and that he didn't put it there. I find this very hard to  
>> believe and I would like to know if it is true. So has this ever  
>> happened to anyone else?
>
> It wasn't specifcally a Menu Group! Just a Group with a whole load  
> of garbage properties. It didn't appear in any of the cards/stacks  
> in the application browser.
>
> It ONLY appeared in the Place Group sub-menu. When I placed the  
> Group it then appeared in the App Browser, then I could delete it  
> and then it worked!!!!!
>
> The bug could well in the "Place Group" code.
>
>>
>> The clue for me that this might be a user mistake is the name of  
>> the group ""fgttryiolk" which is closely  grouped on the keyboard  
>> for both hands while typing. I have had object names change to  
>> something like this "ffefskjil" but it was usually because I  
>> forgot the object was selected when I touched the keyboard. Or  
>> occasionally the cat runs across my keyboard. But that is a  
>> separate issue. The real issue is whether or not Rev is capable  
>> of, just out of the blue, all by itself, in some weird anomaly,  
>> due to some bug, adding it's own menu group and then renaming it  
>> to closely related keys on the keyboard and then deleting it from  
>> the current card but leaving it in the stack and in the "Place" menu.
>
> I said it was named *something like* "fgttryiolk" not that it *was*  
> "fgttryiolk", I really can't remember what it was called, but was  
> some ASCII characters, like a piece of scratch memory, it could  
> have been "mrqjhsxhdp", I really don't know now, all I wanted to do  
> was to be rid of it!
>
> Take Care and All the Best
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Nov 24 19:25:18 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 19:25:18 -0500
Subject: Submitting a Rave to balance a Rant
In-Reply-To: <BFAB83C7.30F1D%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
References: <BFAB83C7.30F1D%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAA8DB3E-EC44-479E-842D-8DFD4C517DE1@adelphia.net>

Definitely impresses me. I continue to impress people who have not  
seen or heard of Rev with the things I can output in very, very short  
times and fully functioning, too.
Love the Revolution.

Tom

On Nov 24, 2005, at 5:50 PM, Jim Ault wrote:

> This should impress my client on Friday.
> 4 hours to build a working prototype.



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Nov 24 13:08:37 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 10:08:37 -0800
Subject: Polling Search Engines
In-Reply-To: <p06230901bfab86f7fb03@[192\.168\.1\.103]>
References: <2c1f9da11cd95e2043725b1a78d58014@accommodata.com>
	<f99b52860511221803r73c518dcxb47fb08f8987ac46@mail.gmail.com>
	<4383F2D2.6090609@comcast.net> <43843093.9000406@harbourhost.co.uk>
	<1824447535.20051123103203@ahsoftware.net>
	<p06230901bfab86f7fb03@[192.168.1.103]>
Message-ID: <1031854336.20051124100837@ahsoftware.net>

Stephen-

Thursday, November 24, 2005, 7:08:48 AM, you wrote:

> If your app is really that useful, why don't you make the API ID 
> customizable so the user can obtain his/her own id?? Perhaps 
> streamline or explain the application process for the user. Google 
> happy, you happy, client happy.

> This will defer any harm to you. And it might be hard for one person
> to use 1000/queries/day.

Well, here's an example of why that won't work (aside from the
complication of making users of an app apply for their own developer
id from Google):

Let's say I'd like to use Google's translation services on a chat
server. The server makes a call to Google's api and returns the
translated string, then passes the string back to the user. Whose
developer id gets used? Do I have the client app pass a developer id
to the server, which then passes it to Google, or is it the server's
id that gets passed to Google? The server itself could easily reach
1000 queries a day.

The api id is supposed to be for developers, not for end users.
Imagine if you had to register with Google to use their search page.
Or apply for an id in order to read runrev's web site.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Nov 24 19:53:28 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 18:53:28 -0600
Subject: Meeting at MacWorld SF in January 2006
In-Reply-To: <CF82C21B-F0DE-4207-9B87-0A18289F4786@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <BFABBCA8.3060D%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/24/05 2:59 PM, "Geoff Canyon" <gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com> wrote:

> Birds Of a Feather

Thanks, Geoff...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Nov 24 20:04:16 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 19:04:16 -0600
Subject: Rotating images . . . ?
In-Reply-To: <web-339591373@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <BFABBF30.30610%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/24/05 2:26 PM, "Mathewson" <richmond at mail.maclaunch.com> wrote:

> 1. When I rotate a GIF that contains transparent areas it
> deteriorates . . . this is a bother . . . any bright ideas
> how to cope with this one?
> 
> 2. When I rotate an image by a mouse click:
> 
> on mouseUp
>   rotate img "egg.gif" by 90
> end mouseUp
> 
> it develops a dotted border and won't let me do it again
> unless I flip between the 'browse' and 'pointer' cursors.

Don't use "rotate" - instead do a "set the angle of img "egg.gif" to 90" -
this is lossless and should give you better results.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Nov 24 20:06:23 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 19:06:23 -0600
Subject: Mysterious Bug that puts menu groups into stacks
In-Reply-To: <333D4C4E-31E7-4513-A131-206F6DD1056C@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <BFABBFAF.30611%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/24/05 6:20 PM, "Thomas McGrath III" <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:

> David,
> 
> That's okay. I mean I wanted to get some other opinions on the issue.

It's never happened to me...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Nov 24 20:07:29 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 19:07:29 -0600
Subject: Happy Thanksgving
In-Reply-To: <ce37b85f85632d52503498e74df73cc2@interisland.net>
Message-ID: <BFABBFF1.30612%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/24/05 4:26 PM, "Ken Norris" <pixelbird at interisland.net> wrote:

> Directed to list members in the U.S.
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving!

Same to you, Ken - and Happy Thanksgiving to all Rev/MC users wherever they
may be...


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Thu Nov 24 20:25:20 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 20:25:20 -0500
Subject: Call for Tutorial Topics
In-Reply-To: <2A46A7CB-D155-11D8-A74D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
References: <40ED66C5.60306@gaeabooks.com>
	<2A46A7CB-D155-11D8-A74D-0003936D012E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <9E8CCB6D-676C-41D3-A1A9-7BDD35B3735E@adelphia.net>

Andre,

How's the Lego project going? Have you made any progress?

I would love to be able to program in Rev and control Lego's.

Tom

On Jul 8, 2004, at 11:07 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

>
> On Jul 8, 2004, at 12:22 PM, Elizabeth Dalton wrote:
>
>> - A stack which can be used to control Lego Robots through the USB  
>> port (for "a student who wants to control robot behavior", and  
>> this would also address the USB issue), or, if the Lego version  
>> isn't where you want to go, a little stack about building and  
>> controlling a very simple robot from scratch using parts from  
>> Radio Shack and RunRev
>
> I made minischeme talk with the Lego RCX in 1999... I think I can  
> make Rev talk to the RCX as well, but I don't know the modern  
> opcodes... and was not thru USB it was from Serial connection... I  
> use a serial <--> usb converter here... humm... I know nothing of  
> USB but I know about the RCX and Rev and how the RCX works.
>
> anyone want help me build a Rev Controled mindstorms lego robot? go  
> RevRover Go!
>
> andre
>
> -- 
> Andre Alves Garzia ? 2004
> Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
> http://studio.soapdog.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From shaosean at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 24 20:37:57 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 20:37:57 -0500
Subject: Documentation errors - bitNot
Message-ID: <BAY105-F18C66733D6978DB2FDB8EAC3570@phx.gbl>

The documentation for "bitNot" states:

"bitNot 1 -- evaluates to 0
bitNot 14 -- in binary: bitNot 1110; evaluates to 0001; converted to 1"

Both of those results are incorrect (well in theory they are correct, but 
not for 32-bit integers)..

bitNot 1     -- returns 4294967294  (which is -2)
bitNot 14   -- returns 4294967280  (which is -15)

The correct answers are returned using the bitwise operators posted last 
night. You can verify all your answers using your web browser and the 
following javascript

<script type="text/javascript">
document.write(~14);     // ~ bitNot
</script>

_________________________________________________________________
Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Nov 22 02:45:34 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 23:45:34 -0800
Subject: group syntax question
In-Reply-To: <4382C3BC.9050202@comcast.net>
References: <6239863560.20051121225529@ahsoftware.net>
	<4382C3BC.9050202@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <9042868351.20051121234534@ahsoftware.net>

Phil-

Monday, November 21, 2005, 11:07:40 PM, you wrote:

> on mouseUp
>    set the uTargetLabel of me to the label of the target
> end mouseUp

Thanks. "The target" has some possibilities, maybe combined with
Richard's uAction idea... I'll have to mull this over a bit tomorrow
when I'm thinking straighter.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Nov 24 21:03:26 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 18:03:26 -0800
Subject: Mysterious Bug that puts menu groups into stacks
In-Reply-To: <BFABBFAF.30611%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BFABBFAF.30611%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <17830342820.20051124180326@ahsoftware.net>

Ken-

Thursday, November 24, 2005, 5:06:23 PM, you wrote:

>> That's okay. I mean I wanted to get some other opinions on the issue.

> It's never happened to me...

...never wanted to get other opinions? <g>

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Nov 22 02:43:49 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 23:43:49 -0800
Subject: group syntax question
In-Reply-To: <C01CBC4E-BAFD-42E1-9749-F02C898205A8@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <6239863560.20051121225529@ahsoftware.net>
	<C01CBC4E-BAFD-42E1-9749-F02C898205A8@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <15042762869.20051121234349@ahsoftware.net>

Eric-

Monday, November 21, 2005, 11:14:36 PM, you wrote:

> Hi Mark,

> Afraid not with this method...
> More redeable like this?

> put the label of btn ID (the hilitedButtonID of grp "gpFilter") into
> tCurBtnLabel
> switch tCurBtnLabel

A bit. I'm open to other methods... how do others deal with finding
out which button in a group is the selected one? As in preferences...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Thu Nov 24 13:20:52 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 10:20:52 -0800
Subject: Meeting at MacWorld SF in January 2006
In-Reply-To: <0FFA0F66-E185-4203-80E4-05E15C74378B@danshafer.com>
References: <20051123182541.720AF7F056@spatula.dreamhost.com>
	<D57F37B6-CB70-4C6C-99CB-B9862741FAD1@danshafer.com>
	<10018726347.20051123143002@ahsoftware.net>
	<0FFA0F66-E185-4203-80E4-05E15C74378B@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <1592589042.20051124102052@ahsoftware.net>

Dan-

Wednesday, November 23, 2005, 6:36:01 PM, you wrote:

> And if we get that same result this year, I bet someone will set up
> an offsite BOF. Who needs IDG?

I'm certainly no fan of IDG. But getting them to publicize BOF
sessions is *very* useful. We can always get a listing at the Hess
Memorial MacWorld event listing, but then only folks in the know will
find out about it...

http://www.ilenesmachine.com/partylist.shtml

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From liamlambert at mac.com  Thu Nov 24 21:52:21 2005
From: liamlambert at mac.com (liamlambert)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 02:52:21 +0000
Subject: seems to meny If
Message-ID: <2E4F9566-D538-4543-BF55-4275948E5C42@mac.com>

	
how do I write this in a switch statement or is there a better way
to write it

if it contains JK then send mouseUp to button "NextTrack"
     if it contains AB then send mouseUp to button "NextTrack"
     if it contains JL then send mouseUp to button "playpause"
     if it contains JM then send mouseUp to button "back"
     if it contains GK then send mouseUp to button "1"
     if it contains HK then send mouseUp to button "2"
     if it contains IK then send mouseUp to button "3"
     if it contains GL then send mouseUp to button "4"
     if it contains HL then send mouseUp to button "5"
     if it contains IL then send mouseUp to button "6"
     if it contains GM then send mouseUp to button "7"
     if it contains HM then send mouseUp to button "8"
     if it contains IM then send mouseUp to button "9"
     if it contains HN then send mouseUp to button "10"
     if it contains "IN" then send mouseUp to button "11"
     if it contains GN then send mouseUp to button "12"

thanks
Liam L.



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Nov 24 22:00:01 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 21:00:01 -0600
Subject: seems to meny If
In-Reply-To: <2E4F9566-D538-4543-BF55-4275948E5C42@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BFABDA51.30625%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/24/05 8:52 PM, "liamlambert" <liamlambert at mac.com> wrote:

> 
> how do I write this in a switch statement or is there a better way
> to write it
> 
> if it contains JK then send mouseUp to button "NextTrack"
>      if it contains AB then send mouseUp to button "NextTrack"
>      if it contains JL then send mouseUp to button "playpause"
>      if it contains JM then send mouseUp to button "back"
>      if it contains GK then send mouseUp to button "1"
>      if it contains HK then send mouseUp to button "2"
>      if it contains IK then send mouseUp to button "3"
>      if it contains GL then send mouseUp to button "4"
>      if it contains HL then send mouseUp to button "5"
>      if it contains IL then send mouseUp to button "6"
>      if it contains GM then send mouseUp to button "7"
>      if it contains HM then send mouseUp to button "8"
>      if it contains IM then send mouseUp to button "9"
>      if it contains HN then send mouseUp to button "10"
>      if it contains "IN" then send mouseUp to button "11"
>      if it contains GN then send mouseUp to button "12"

Well, first of all, I wouldn't name any buttons with numbers - it can
confuse Rev - use something like "B1" or whatever you like. And secondly, I
would put whatever is in "it" into some other variable so you can make sure
it doesn't get messed with.

My solution below uses B1-B12 instead of 1-12, and has put "it" into tData:

put it into tData
put "JK,AB,JL,JM,GK,HK,IK,GL,HL,IL,GM,HM,IM,HN,IN,GN" into \
  tPairs
put "NextTrack,NextTrack,playpause,back,B1,B2,B3,B4,B5," & \
  "B6,B7,B8,B9,B10,B11,B12" into tBtns
repeat with x = 1 to the number of items of tPairs
  if tData contains (item x of tPairs) then
    do "send mouseUp to btn " & quote & (item x of tBtns) & quote
end repeat

HTH,


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From frny4x at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 24 22:08:27 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 19:08:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Recent anger - and new guy here / SOT
In-Reply-To: <BFAB766E.305CA%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <20051125030827.69210.qmail@web32810.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Ken - does your company have any relationship to a SOT in the
  motorcycle parts world?
  

Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:
  On 11/24/05 1:04 PM, "Frank R" wrote:

> Ok, with the recent anger expressed, and with me being a new guy on the block,
> let me ask some questions:
> 
> - What's the size of the company behind this product? You don't have to
> give precise numbers, but somebody must know if this company is - a thousand
> people - doubt it, a hundred people - still probably doubt it, at least dozens
> of people - probably, and I hope, or one or two people - I don't hope this is
> the case.

Last time I checked it was about a dozen people give or take (of course this
was a year ago and things might have changed).

> - What are the support options? Do we get 100% of support via the dialog in
> this forum, or is there a way to contact a tech support team at the company
> and occasionally get a good answer?

Well, the support options are listed at the RunRev site
(http://support.runrev.com/pricing/support_info.php), but basically this
list is the "free" support; you can pay for email priority support or phone
support.

> - What's the frequency of the release of minor levels and major levels of
> the software?

I don't recall specifically, but it seems like it's about 6 months between
minor releases and a year between major ones (something like that) - I might
be misremembering, so if anyone wants to chime in here, that would be great.

> - Are people out there making a livelihood using this product nearly
> exclusively, or is this rare to nonexistent?

Yes (I am, for one). And I know several others doing this as well. I don't
know how many in total, though.

HTH,


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
  



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Thu Nov 24 22:32:09 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 19:32:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Meeting at MacWorld SF in January 2006
In-Reply-To: <BFAB76CE.305CC%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511241931290.10987-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

"Birds Of a Feather, as it did at Monterray??

Judy


On Thu, 24 Nov 2005, Ken Ray wrote:

> Uh... not to sound like an idiot here, but what does "BOF" mean?



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Thu Nov 24 22:57:29 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 21:57:29 -0600
Subject: Recent anger - and new guy here / SOT
In-Reply-To: <20051125030827.69210.qmail@web32810.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BFABE7C9.30630%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/24/05 9:08 PM, "Frank R" <frny4x at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Ken - does your company have any relationship to a SOT in the
>   motorcycle parts world?

Nope, no resemblance... :-)


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From jeff at siphonophore.com  Fri Nov 25 00:02:08 2005
From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeffrey Reynolds)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 00:02:08 -0500
Subject: Recent anger - and new guy here
In-Reply-To: <20051124201709.7293B8252D7@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051124201709.7293B8252D7@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <def9b6f83f6266863193813d559d263f@siphonophore.com>

Yes, quite a few of us rely on MC/Rev as an integral part of making a 
living as i have seen around over the years on the list. I have watched 
so many other products rise and fall (ie ishell, mtropolis, toolbook, 
etc) while metacard and rev have just kept on going like the ever-ready 
bunny, maturing and evolving.

Yes once and a while you get stuck in some corner with some obscure 
problem, but in the end i have always figured out a way around or 
through the problem (many times with the help of the list) and finished 
the product.

Jeffrey Reynolds


On Nov 24, 2005, at 3:17 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

>
>>   - Are people out there making a livelihood using this product nearly
>> exclusively, or is this rare to nonexistent?



From jeff at siphonophore.com  Fri Nov 25 00:18:02 2005
From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeffrey Reynolds)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 00:18:02 -0500
Subject: Meeting at MacWorld SF in January 2006
In-Reply-To: <20051124221326.213D7825355@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051124221326.213D7825355@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <8a41e337a1c7f100683d5526b90c8357@siphonophore.com>

Mark,

ha, thanks, great to see more faces! Also glad to see a Berkeleyite in 
the mix! I lived there for years (grad school and after) and years and 
just moved east about 4 years ago. i still cant get a decent latte 
outside of Berkeley!

cheers

Jeff

On Nov 24, 2005, at 5:13 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

>
> We usually get a dinner together at the show. This year my own time is
> rather limited in the evenings. If you want to see faces, check out
>
> http://www.frappr.com/runtimerevolution



From frny4x at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 25 00:27:32 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 21:27:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Thanks for the welcome and initial responses / MIDI
Message-ID: <20051125052732.7885.qmail@web32801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks everyone for the welcome and initial responses.
   
  Now, to Really get me off to an enthusiastic start with RunRev, can Someone
  send me that MIDI Builder demo stack?  :)       Somebody here has to have it.
   
  I'd really appreciate it.
   
  Thanks.
   
  Frank


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Nov 25 01:04:47 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 00:04:47 -0600
Subject: About bugs (was This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! - was
 Menubar Help)
In-Reply-To: <a05210602bfac01116d67@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210606bfaba4a06ce5@[192.168.0.101]>	<p06230905bfaba8e8ef91@[192.168.1.103]>	<a05210600bfabcbbbf557@[192.168.0.101]>	<75CDC256-2EAA-4509-99CB-BC4459145FC4@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<a05210602bfac01116d67@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <4386A97F.5060207@hyperactivesw.com>

On 11/24/05 5:51 PM, David Burgun wrote:
> Hi Eric,
> 
> I always do try to reproduce the problem etc. In this case though it 
> really is a bug, if not in the menu handling, then else where in RunRev.
> 
> There was a Group in the Place Groups Sub-Menu that was not listed in 
> any stack/card in the apps browser. When selected it placed a BLOB in 
> the stack window that could not be selected, however, when selected from 
> the apps browser window, it could be deleted. Once this was done it worked.
> 
> There was no code that could cause this type of problem, just the 
> scripts generated by Auto-Script, e.g. a menuPick and empty case 
> statement, and besides that, the problem was that the menu did not get 
> moved into the Application menu. No code was needed for this to occur.

You know, of course, that it is perfectly legal to have a group that is 
not placed on any card, right? You can have any number of groups that 
behave that way. This is not a bug. As a matter of fact, imported 
HyperCard stacks always have at least one or more unplaced groups that 
contain various HyperCard resources. I see these all the time.

One way to accidentally create an unplaced group is to group an object 
and then delete the card it is on. Deleting the card does not delete the 
groups that are on it, and you now have unplaced groups.

You don't say what the "blob" was. The last "blob" I saw in one of my 
stacks was an imported image that was not in a Rev-friendly format. 
Re-saving the image as a regular .jpg and re-importing it fixed the "blob".

If the menu did not appear as the application menu, then there was 
something wrong with the structure of the menu group. Others have 
addressed this and suggested things to look for. It doesn't sound like 
your "blob" was supposed to be the menu group, as you would have named 
it more sensibly. So, it sounds like there were two problems: the first 
was an unrelated, unplaced group, and the second was a (different) menu 
group that was structurally unsound. Or at least, that's as much as I 
can assemble from your description, not having seen the stack.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri Nov 25 01:06:20 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 00:06:20 -0600
Subject: How to show up a print dialog box
In-Reply-To: <ECOWS01MgPasSmz6UuE00000109@smtp-out1.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <ECOWS01MgPasSmz6UuE00000109@smtp-out1.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4386A9DC.8030705@hyperactivesw.com>

On 11/24/05 5:10 PM, Jason - Polydiam.com wrote:

> By the way I'm using windows XP, I just can't get the print dialog box to
> come up with these commands.
> 
> Anyone know any other commands I could use to print the images into a
> specified size and show up the printer dialog box?
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> I?m trying to print an image to a specified paper size; 8?x10?.
>   
> 
> set the printRotated to true
> 
>   open printing with dialog
>   
>   print stack "Target" into 15,15,400,400
>     
>   close printing 
> 
> but it does not show the print dialog box (so a user can change the paper
> size)
> anyone know how to get it to show the print dialog box and still print into
> the specified coordinates on the paper (and landscape)

Try "answer printer".

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Nov 25 01:35:19 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 22:35:19 -0800
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bfabfa19c9c9@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210606bfaba4a06ce5@[192.168.0.101]>
	<p06230905bfaba8e8ef91@[192.168.1.103]>
	<a05210600bfabcbbbf557@[192.168.0.101]>	<43862761.2030201@comcast.net>
	<a05210600bfabe8d85d77@[192.168.0.101]>
	<1DED2654-9A82-4B29-A0F8-92611A7A20A8@inspiredlogic.com>
	<a05210600bfabfa19c9c9@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <328EA437-1752-4823-B24B-01CDAF9BD15A@inspiredlogic.com>

It's entirely possible to have a group that is not on any card. To do  
this, simply create a new stack, add a button, group the button, and  
type this in the message box:

remove group 1 from this card

It's a limitation in the app browser, certainly, that the group in  
question won't show up in the stack. It shouldn't show up under the  
card, because it's not on the card.

I'm not sure I'm following what you're describing after that part,  
but it sounds like you placed the group, which would make it show up  
in the app browser, allowing you to delete it.

Again, I'm not sure I'm following, but it sounds like getting rid of  
this extraneous group fixed your menu bar problems. If so, great.

So, there is definitely a limitation in the app browser, but not a  
bug. It sounds like a useful feature request to backgrounds that  
aren't in any card under the stack.

How the group got there in the first place remains a question for  
investigation. You can certainly submit it as a bug. If it's not  
reproducible it'll be difficult to confirm, and harder to fix  
(assuming it is in fact a bug).

gc



On Nov 24, 2005, at 3:27 PM, David Burgun wrote:

> There was a Group in the Place Groups Sub-Menu that was not listed  
> in any stack/card in the apps browser. When selected it placed a  
> BLOB in the stack window that could not be selected, however, when  
> selected from the apps browser window, it could be deleted. Once  
> this was done it worked.
>
> How can this not be a bug in RunRev?



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Nov 25 02:47:17 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 23:47:17 -0800
Subject: Documentation errors - bitNot
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-F18C66733D6978DB2FDB8EAC3570@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY105-F18C66733D6978DB2FDB8EAC3570@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <7650973696.20051124234717@ahsoftware.net>

Sean-

Thursday, November 24, 2005, 5:37:57 PM, you wrote:

> bitNot 14   -- returns 4294967280  (which is -15)

Hmmm. I get 4294967281.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From monsieurx at monsieurx.com  Fri Nov 25 03:02:21 2005
From: monsieurx at monsieurx.com (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 09:02:21 +0100 (GMT-1)
Subject: Near completion of Color Pattern Toolkit: IDE, engine,
 and font problems (part two)
In-Reply-To: <43864AF8.8040602@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
References: <43864AF8.8040602@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <64674.193.29.77.101.1132905741.squirrel@193.29.77.101>


Wilhelm

i tried your stack. After each redraw it is 2X slower. When i tried to see
why, MC started showing really weird artifacts, menus bars gone wrong, etc
and then it crashed. (glad it was the only stack opened at the time).

Second attempt:

The big problem is with the backdrop (recently damned by the list). This
creates all sort of hickups and artifacts and eventually the crash. Taking
a screenshot resulted also in an error...

After removing the backdrop, i could see better. There IS a memory leak
(engine 2.6.6) and further another problem with the redraw of the window
in XP thereafter. Each iteration doubles the time it takes... After that,
MC was running on mollases (despite your stack closed) and I had to quit a
third time - mc became unusable... Parts of the windows from other
programs would draw over the mctoolbar - i had this also happen in another
stack since 2.6.6 appeared.). Anyway,before i could quit or save or
anything MC crashed again...

But the leak is well in the engine. Opening mc takes 10MBs of RAM. I run
your script and each time MC eats 10MBs. Close the stack, memory is not
freed... I did click the stack memory buttons on close...

One suggestion is to use "graphics" instead of fields. MoireX did that and
i dont think there was as much overhead...

Last but not least, using classic windows window theme instead of XP style
helps a bit but not much. By far the worst things i found was the
backdrop, and the use of fields as coloring elements. I didn't try with
graphics...

all tests done on a W2K3 server...

Cheers
Xavier
-- 
http://monsieurx.com/taoo



From shaosean at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 25 04:16:35 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 04:16:35 -0500
Subject: [UPD] bitwiseShiftLeft
Message-ID: <BAY105-F14D0E14AC0DD750754E836C3570@phx.gbl>

After checking the code from yesterday's posting, I noticed that I was still 
using some plain simple RunRev handlers for the "shiftLeft" bitwise 
operator, this would cause it to fail on many occasions.. I've spent the 
last 6 hours straight (less a few chatRev breaks) to get code that won't 
fail (hopefully ;-) and can handle 32-bit signed integers..

So here is the fix for shiftLeft (I'm working on a shiftRight fix):

function bitwiseShiftLeft p1, p2
  if (p2 >= 32) then return p1 * (2 ^ (p2 MOD 32))
  if (p2 = 0) then return p1
  if (p2 < 32) then
    put baseConvert(p1, 10, 2) into p1
    repeat p2
      put 0 after p1
    end repeat
    return baseConvert(char -32 to -1 of p1, 2, 10)
  end if
end bitwiseShiftLeft

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee? 
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963



From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Nov 25 04:39:01 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 09:39:01 +0000
Subject: seems to meny If
In-Reply-To: <BFABDA51.30625%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BFABDA51.30625%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <4386DBB5.9040604@tweedly.net>

Ken Ray wrote:

>On 11/24/05 8:52 PM, "liamlambert" <liamlambert at mac.com> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>how do I write this in a switch statement or is there a better way
>>to write it
>>    
>>
>Well, first of all, I wouldn't name any buttons with numbers - it can
>confuse Rev - use something like "B1" or whatever you like. And secondly, I
>would put whatever is in "it" into some other variable so you can make sure
>it doesn't get messed with.
>
>  
>
I agree with everything Ken said - but wanted to show a couple more 
versions (just to prove Rev always offers many choices of how to solve 
something :-)

>My solution below uses B1-B12 instead of 1-12, and has put "it" into tData:
>
>put it into tData
>put "JK,AB,JL,JM,GK,HK,IK,GL,HL,IL,GM,HM,IM,HN,IN,GN" into \
>  tPairs
>put "NextTrack,NextTrack,playpause,back,B1,B2,B3,B4,B5," & \
>  "B6,B7,B8,B9,B10,B11,B12" into tBtns
>repeat with x = 1 to the number of items of tPairs
>  if tData contains (item x of tPairs) then
>    do "send mouseUp to btn " & quote & (item x of tBtns) & quote
>end repeat
>  
>
For me, it's fatal to use two "parallel" lists like that - sooner or 
later, I'll want to add, delete or move one of the entries, and 
mis-count in the other list. Also, I find it easier to read and 
comprehend if I keep the string I'm matching directly adjacent to the 
name of the button, so I'd do something like

put it into tData
put "JK NextTrack,AB NextTrack,JL playpause,JM back" into tPairs
put comma & "GK B1,HK B2,IK B3,GL B4,HL B5,IL B6,GM B7,HM B8" after tPairs
put comma & "IM B9,HN B10,IN B11,GN B12" after tPairs
repeat for each item X in tPairs
  if tData contains (word 1 of X) then
    do "send mouseUp to btn " & quote & (word 2 to -1 of X) & quote
end repeat

I might even do ....
put "JK  NextTrack," into tPairs
put "AB  NextTrack," after tPairs
put "JL  playpause," after tPairs
....
put "GN  B12" after tPairs

which is kind of long winded, but has the advantage of being very easy to scan visually later.  For similar reasons, I'd consider putting them in alphabetical order by the "index" string, rather than grouping by the "effect" button name - more likely to be helpful when I come back to look at this bit of code in a year's time (depends on where the "JK", "AB", etc are coming from).



Or, I might put lCommands into a script-local variable and do
(in initialization code)

put "JK NextTrack,AB NextTrack,JL playpause,JM back" into lCommands
put comma & "GK B1,HK B2,IK B3,GL B4,HL B5,IL B6,GM B7,HM B8" after lCommands
put comma & "IM B9,HN B10,IN B11,GN B12" after lCommands
split lCommands with comma and space

(in running code)

put it into tData
if lCommands[tData] is not empty then
   do "send mouseUp to btn " & quote & lCommands[tData] & quote
end if



Which of these I'd choose probably depends, honestly, mostly on the mood 
I'm in at the time :-)

I could however probably put together a half-way convincing claim that 
the choice would be made according to the likelihood of subsequent 
maintenance efforts, and finding the optimum balance between ease of 
reading (by programmer) vs conciseness vs speed vs ...

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/176 - Release Date: 20/11/2005



From shaosean at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 25 05:22:37 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 05:22:37 -0500
Subject: [UPD] bitwise "shift"s
Message-ID: <BAY105-F206710E1791F994215B998C3570@phx.gbl>

Sorry for the post earlier, but it seems that there's a small error in it.. 
Here are the 3 fixed bitwise shift operators (shiftLeft (<<), shiftRight 
(>>) and shiftRightZero (>>>)).. Basically there are some integer 
combinations that would make the other formulas fail and sometimes the 
shiftRightZero would return a negative integer (which is impossible).. So 
here are the three corrected functions:

function bitwiseShiftLeft p1, p2
  local tP1Neg
  put (p2 MOD 32) into p2
  if (p1 < 0) then put TRUE into tP1Neg
  if (p2 = 0) then return p1
  put baseConvert(p1, 10, 2) into p1
  repeat p2
    put 0 after p1
  end repeat
  if (tP1Neg) then return 0 - baseConvert(char -32 to -1 of p1, 2, 10)
  else return baseConvert(char -32 to -1 of p1, 2, 10)
end bitwiseShiftLeft

function bitwiseShiftRight p1, p2
  local tP1Neg, tPad
  put (p2 MOD 32) into p2
  if (p2 = 0) then return p1
  if (p1 > 0) then return trunc(p1 / (2 ^ p2))

  if (abs(p1) = (2^p2)) then return trunc(p1 / (2^ p2))
  else return trunc(p1 / (2 ^ p2)) -1
end bitwiseShiftRight

function bitwiseShiftRightZero p1, p2
  put (p2 MOD 32) into p2
  if (p1 > 0) then return trunc(p1 / (2 ^ p2))
  #if (p2 = 0) then return p1
  if (p1 < 0) then
    put baseConvert(bitNot abs(p1) +1, 10, 2) into p1
    repeat p2
      delete char -1 of p1
      put 0 before p1
    end repeat
    return abs(baseConvert(p1, 2, 10))
  end if
end bitwiseShiftRightZero

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to 
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Fri Nov 25 05:59:23 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 10:59:23 +0000
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <328EA437-1752-4823-B24B-01CDAF9BD15A@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <a05210606bfaba4a06ce5@[192.168.0.101]>
	<p06230905bfaba8e8ef91@[192.168.1.103]>
	<a05210600bfabcbbbf557@[192.168.0.101]>	<43862761.2030201@comcast.net>
	<a05210600bfabe8d85d77@[192.168.0.101]>
	<1DED2654-9A82-4B29-A0F8-92611A7A20A8@inspiredlogic.com>
	<a05210600bfabfa19c9c9@[192.168.0.101]>
	<328EA437-1752-4823-B24B-01CDAF9BD15A@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bfac9cf84ebe@[192.168.0.101]>

>It's entirely possible to have a group that is not on any card. To 
>do this, simply create a new stack, add a button, group the button, 
>and type this in the message box:
>
>remove group 1 from this card
>
>It's a limitation in the app browser, certainly, that the group in 
>question won't show up in the stack. It shouldn't show up under the 
>card, because it's not on the card.

In this case, if it's not in the card, then surely it's not in the 
stack and should not be available for "Placing" or whatver.
>
>I'm not sure I'm following what you're describing after that part, 
>but it sounds like you placed the group, which would make it show up 
>in the app browser, allowing you to delete it.

Yes.

>Again, I'm not sure I'm following, but it sounds like getting rid of 
>this extraneous group fixed your menu bar problems. If so, great.

Yes.

>So, there is definitely a limitation in the app browser, but not a 
>bug. It sounds like a useful feature request to backgrounds that 
>aren't in any card under the stack.

No. it's a bug in RunRev. The only way a group could be created like 
that, is in a stack that exists in memory but not as a file. This is 
possible - once! But during the course of tracking this problem down 
I quit RunRev, restarted the machine and re-loaded RunRev. The Group 
was part of the stack where the error occured. When I created another 
stack the problem wasn't present, yet the Group in question was still 
in the Place Groups Sub-Menu. Besides all this I really don't think a 
Group can exist (or at least be accessible by RunRev), unless it is 
in a stack, and all stacks have at least one card, and they should 
appear in the App Browser anyway.

>How the group got there in the first place remains a question for 
>investigation. You can certainly submit it as a bug. If it's not 
>reproducible it'll be difficult to confirm, and harder to fix 
>(assuming it is in fact a bug).

Yes, It's a Bug - Shock Horror! There are loads of em in RunRev - Get 
used to it and stop being in denial!

Take Care and All the Best
Dave

>gc
>
>On Nov 24, 2005, at 3:27 PM, David Burgun wrote:
>
>>There was a Group in the Place Groups Sub-Menu that was not listed 
>>in any stack/card in the apps browser. When selected it placed a 
>>BLOB in the stack window that could not be selected, however, when 
>>selected from the apps browser window, it could be deleted. Once 
>>this was done it worked.
>>
>>How can this not be a bug in RunRev?
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From PradeepKumar.MITTAL at insead.edu  Fri Nov 25 06:05:37 2005
From: PradeepKumar.MITTAL at insead.edu (MITTAL Pradeep Kumar)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 12:05:37 +0100
Subject: Web Plugin for metacard player ( like flash plugin for browsers)
Message-ID: <8CD3C97D72BC144CB87AEBAD8D2E973202DF143F@GAIA.FBL.insead.intra>

Hello, 
 
I want my users to run mc files which are on the server. To achieve
this,  I am using dreamcard player.
 
But I do not want users to enter the big url address in the dream card
player,  instead of that i would like to start the player autmatically
from the webpage and launch the mc or rev files. ( we can assume that
player is already installed on client machines)
 
Is it possible to launch player from the webpage  (with parameters of
location mc files) ?  There are flash plugin for browser . do we have
same thing in revolution too??
 
Thanks for your help
Best Regards
Pradeep
 
 
 
 


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Nov 25 08:33:35 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 08:33:35 -0500
Subject: Thanks for the welcome and initial responses / MIDI
In-Reply-To: <20051125052732.7885.qmail@web32801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051125052732.7885.qmail@web32801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6511B5F3-7A1A-4508-8509-2451E134B3B9@adelphia.net>

Frank,

You might try the Shakobox by Hyperactive Software: http:// 
www.hyperactivesw.com/Resources.html

I couldn't find the MIDI stack though.

HTH

Tom

On Nov 25, 2005, at 12:27 AM, Frank R wrote:

> Thanks everyone for the welcome and initial responses.
>
>   Now, to Really get me off to an enthusiastic start with RunRev,  
> can Someone
>   send me that MIDI Builder demo stack?  :)       Somebody here has  
> to have it.
>
>   I'd really appreciate it.
>
>   Thanks.
>
>   Frank
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Fri Nov 25 08:34:28 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 13:34:28 +0000
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <64674.193.29.77.101.1132905741.squirrel@193.29.77.101>
References: <43864AF8.8040602@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
	<64674.193.29.77.101.1132905741.squirrel@193.29.77.101>
Message-ID: <a05210602bfacb3b7a757@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

I have an application that is comprised on a number of stacks.

The top level stack is built into a Standalone and it calls other 
stacks (.rev files) via "start using" and "go stack" commands.

When in the IDE the folder stucture is like this:

BaseFolder/StartUp.rev <-- just contains a splash screen
BaseFolder/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev
BaseFolder/Runtime/Stacks/StackB.rev
BaseFolder/Runtime/Stacks/StackC.rev

StartUp.rev figures out the correct path (by using the filename of 
this stack property) and does a goto StackA.rev.
StackA in turn does a go to StackB.rev. This all works fine under the IDE.

When runnig as a standalone the folder structure is like this:

MacOSX/myApp.app  <-- bundle
MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/MyApp (real applicaiton)
MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev
MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackB.rev
MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackC.rev


But when I run this StackB.rev does not get found/run.

I traced this down to some code in card 1 (the only card) of StackA.rev:


function LoadGlobalStacks
   local myStackFIlePathName
   local myStackFIlePath
   local myGlobalStackFilePathName

put the filename of this stack into myStackFIlePathName
put myStackFIlePathName into myStackFIlePath
set itemDelimiter to :/"
delete item -1 of myStackFIlePath
set itemDelimiter to ","

put myStackFIlePath & "/StackB.rev" into myGlobalStackFilePathName
if there is not a stack myGlobalStackFilePathName return false

start using myGlobalStackFilePathName

return true
end LoadGlobalStacks


on preOpenStack
    if LoadGlobalStacks() = false then
   answer error "Cannot Find Global Stacks"
   end if

set the menubar of this stack to "MainMenu"

end preOpenStack


The problem seems to be that in the LoadGlobalStacks() function the 
string returned from:

put the filename of this stack into myStackFIlePathName

is "MacOSX/myApp.app" and not

"MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev" as expected.

I am guessing it's something to do with scope and being called from a 
preOpenStack handler??? StackA.rev was enetered via a go stack 
path/StackA from MacOSX/myApp.app and it looks like this context is 
being used instead of the context of StackA.rev.

If so, what is the recommended way of doing this?? If not what am I 
doing wrong?

Thanks in advance for any help.

All the Best
Dave


















From vampire at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 25 08:36:20 2005
From: vampire at yahoo.com (vampire at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 09:36:20 -0400
Subject: Multiplatform Revolution
In-Reply-To: <768fa4fc0511250533we085f0rf4e8bc746c12fb84@mail.gmail.com>
References: <768fa4fc0511250533we085f0rf4e8bc746c12fb84@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <768fa4fc0511250536u48108cfeyef39073956a6101e@mail.gmail.com>

So far I am impressed by revolution. I'm somebody that is coming back
to the mac after a decade. At one point in my life I loved HyperCard.
Most of my clients are on PCs so if I end up using revolution I am
going to need to byte the bullet and buy PC/Mac. Does getting a
license for multi-platform entitle you to run the IDE on both
platforms? I don't have a specific use for it yet so if I put out the
money its a big investment for me at this point. How important would
you say is buying the updates (support). Does RR get bug fixes often?
Any other pointers? I was about to buy Supercard (mostly to toy with)
which I love but not being able to run anything I develop for 90% of
my clients seems like learning time not well spent.

Thanks

Steve


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Fri Nov 25 08:47:46 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 13:47:46 +0000
Subject: Multiplatform Revolution
In-Reply-To: <768fa4fc0511250536u48108cfeyef39073956a6101e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <768fa4fc0511250533we085f0rf4e8bc746c12fb84@mail.gmail.com>
	<768fa4fc0511250536u48108cfeyef39073956a6101e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bfacc4f6aa44@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

>  Does getting a license for multi-platform entitle you to run the IDE on both

If you get the studio version, you the IDE will run on one platform 
of your choice, and you can added the ability to run on additional 
platforms for a reduced price for each additional platform.

You can build standalones to target any of the supported platforms though.

If I were you, I'd just buy a studio license for one platform, this 
entitles you to one year of free updates and you can renew at the end 
of that. You can always buy an addtional platform when if and when 
you want to.

The base system costs ?199 (one host platform) and each additional 
host platform costs ?133.

Hope this helps
Dave


>So far I am impressed by revolution. I'm somebody that is coming back
>to the mac after a decade. At one point in my life I loved HyperCard.
>Most of my clients are on PCs so if I end up using revolution I am
>going to need to byte the bullet and buy PC/Mac. Does getting a
>license for multi-platform entitle you to run the IDE on both
>platforms? I don't have a specific use for it yet so if I put out the
>money its a big investment for me at this point. How important would
>you say is buying the updates (support). Does RR get bug fixes often?
>Any other pointers? I was about to buy Supercard (mostly to toy with)
>which I love but not being able to run anything I develop for 90% of
>my clients seems like learning time not well spent.
>
>Thanks
>
>Steve
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Nov 25 08:55:42 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 08:55:42 -0500
Subject: Multiplatform Revolution
In-Reply-To: <768fa4fc0511250536u48108cfeyef39073956a6101e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <768fa4fc0511250533we085f0rf4e8bc746c12fb84@mail.gmail.com>
	<768fa4fc0511250536u48108cfeyef39073956a6101e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3E7417A-31E8-41AD-B12B-65AAACB0D277@adelphia.net>

Steve welcome back to the Mac. and welcome to the Revolution!!!

This is just my opinion: I was looking for a solution that would let  
me develop on the Mac in an upper level scripting language but  
deliver on the Mac and PC. Rev does it. Then I needed to track down  
some very specific PC only issues and so I have the license which  
allows me to run Rev on Windows and code there. Rev does it. You may  
not need to go that far and you can always upgrade your license if  
that becomes necessary.

I came from Supercard, which I loved, and found I could get up and  
running with Rev in a few weeks and was building my first 'real'  
application for our company in just under 5 weeks. I mean the bells  
and whistles type. There are a couple of differences that you need to  
learn between Rev/SC and the online videos help there as well as this  
list and there are some resources on the web.

I would suggest buying the cheapest version until you get a feel for  
Rev and then upgrading to what you need later. The same with updates/ 
support. As far as I know Dreamcard is the only one that does not  
deploy on multiple platforms, I think you buy the one for the  
platform you are on. I may be wrong though so check the RunRev site.

Truth be told, If you loved SC and yearn to develop for the other 90%  
of your clients (PC users) then you will fall in love with REV and  
you will end up buying the more expanded version. ;-) I did and won't  
turn back.

As far as updates, I let mine lapse after this big project came to  
completion and although I put it off I plan on updating in the next  
few weeks anyway. My thoughts are if I am making money with it then I  
need to support it, if I am playing with it then I don't need to go  
that far. Plus the updates and feature enhancements and bug fixes are  
worth it.

Not looking back,

Tom

P.S. Did I mention this list??? It is the single best resource you  
have available to you.


On Nov 25, 2005, at 8:36 AM, vampire at yahoo.com wrote:

> So far I am impressed by revolution. I'm somebody that is coming back
> to the mac after a decade. At one point in my life I loved HyperCard.
> Most of my clients are on PCs so if I end up using revolution I am
> going to need to byte the bullet and buy PC/Mac. Does getting a
> license for multi-platform entitle you to run the IDE on both
> platforms? I don't have a specific use for it yet so if I put out the
> money its a big investment for me at this point. How important would
> you say is buying the updates (support). Does RR get bug fixes often?
> Any other pointers? I was about to buy Supercard (mostly to toy with)
> which I love but not being able to run anything I develop for 90% of
> my clients seems like learning time not well spent.
>
> Thanks
>
> Steve
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Fri Nov 25 09:19:18 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 14:19:18 +0000
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
Message-ID: <a05210601bfaccb9738df@[192.168.0.101]>

Some more information:

I moved the call to LoadGlobalStacks() to the openStack handler in 
card 1 of StackA.rev, the same thing happens, works fine under IDE 
but not when run as a standalone.

Upon further inspection, I found that after :

  function LoadGlobalStacks
  local myStackFIlePathName
   local myStackFIlePath
   local myGlobalStackFilePathName

put the filename of this stack into myStackFIlePathName
put myStackFIlePathName into myStackFIlePath
set itemDelimiter to :/"
delete item -1 of myStackFIlePath
set itemDelimiter to ","

Has been run, myStackFIlePathName is equal to myStackFIlePathName, in 
other words the last item has NOT been deleted! I changed it to:

put empty into item 1 of myStackFIlePath

But this doesn't work either!

I am testing this using answer dialogs since I can't run the debugger 
in the standalone and it works fine in the IDE.

This an additional problem to the filename of the stack being 
inconsistent with the current stack. Why should a simple delete 
statement work under the IDE but not in Standalone mode?

I am sure this has worked in the past, although I am not sure that I 
have tried it as a standalone since I upgraded to the lastest version 
of RunRev.

Any ideas anyone?

(there are some typeos in the code below, it's just a problem of 
re-typing, not in the real script I am running)

Thanks a lot
All the Best
Dave

Hi,

I have an application that is comprised on a number of stacks.

The top level stack is built into a Standalone and it calls other 
stacks (.rev files) via "start using" and "go stack" commands.

When in the IDE the folder stucture is like this:

BaseFolder/StartUp.rev <-- just contains a splash screen
BaseFolder/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev
BaseFolder/Runtime/Stacks/StackB.rev
BaseFolder/Runtime/Stacks/StackC.rev

StartUp.rev figures out the correct path (by using the filename of 
this stack property) and does a goto StackA.rev.
StackA in turn does a go to StackB.rev. This all works fine under the IDE.

When runnig as a standalone the folder structure is like this:

MacOSX/myApp.app  <-- bundle
MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/MyApp (real applicaiton)
MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev
MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackB.rev
MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackC.rev


But when I run this StackB.rev does not get found/run.

I traced this down to some code in card 1 (the only card) of StackA.rev:


function LoadGlobalStacks
   local myStackFIlePathName
   local myStackFIlePath
   local myGlobalStackFilePathName

put the filename of this stack into myStackFIlePathName
put myStackFIlePathName into myStackFIlePath
set itemDelimiter to :/"
delete item -1 of myStackFIlePath
set itemDelimiter to ","

put myStackFIlePath & "/StackB.rev" into myGlobalStackFilePathName
if there is not a stack myGlobalStackFilePathName return false

start using myGlobalStackFilePathName

return true
end LoadGlobalStacks


on preOpenStack
    if LoadGlobalStacks() = false then
   answer error "Cannot Find Global Stacks"
   end if

set the menubar of this stack to "MainMenu"

end preOpenStack


The problem seems to be that in the LoadGlobalStacks() function the 
string returned from:

put the filename of this stack into myStackFIlePathName

is "MacOSX/myApp.app" and not

"MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev" as expected.

I am guessing it's something to do with scope and being called from a 
preOpenStack handler??? StackA.rev was enetered via a go stack 
path/StackA from MacOSX/myApp.app and it looks like this context is 
being used instead of the context of StackA.rev.

If so, what is the recommended way of doing this?? If not what am I 
doing wrong?

Thanks in advance for any help.

All the Best
Dave
















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From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Fri Nov 25 09:26:49 2005
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 09:26:49 -0500
Subject: group syntax question
In-Reply-To: <15042762869.20051121234349@ahsoftware.net>
References: <6239863560.20051121225529@ahsoftware.net>
	<C01CBC4E-BAFD-42E1-9749-F02C898205A8@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<15042762869.20051121234349@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <24851c9a9dc46a77c5b7244004e6ea41@fjrhome.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Why not use hilitedButtonName?

Sorry, I missed the beginning of this conversation.

Also, if using "the label of", consider "effective label" to ensure 
that you don't get an empty label if no label has been set...



On Nov 22, 2005, at 2:43 AM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Eric-
>
> Monday, November 21, 2005, 11:14:36 PM, you wrote:
>
>> Hi Mark,
>
>> Afraid not with this method...
>> More redeable like this?
>
>> put the label of btn ID (the hilitedButtonID of grp "gpFilter") into
>> tCurBtnLabel
>> switch tCurBtnLabel
>
> A bit. I'm open to other methods... how do others deal with finding
> out which button in a group is the selected one? As in preferences...
>
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
- -----------------------------------------------------------
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <fde101 at fjrhome.net>

$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten 
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
everlasting life.
$
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFDhx8q7aqtWrR9cZoRAh7pAJ0Zs38VeITlcJ0ksOVnVZUFUccVEQCfYpkG
v897mdFaAvXQ6ll0vz4Q/pk=
=sm8K
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



___________________________________________________________
$0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
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From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Fri Nov 25 09:41:20 2005
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 09:41:20 -0500
Subject: seems to meny If
In-Reply-To: <4386DBB5.9040604@tweedly.net>
References: <BFABDA51.30625%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<4386DBB5.9040604@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <815c57c676c6e5e16424f76a44ea517e@fjrhome.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Another way to handle this is to create a custom property on the 
buttons and assign those stings to the custom property:

set the myCharacters of button "B1" to "GK"
set the myCharacters of button "B2" to "HK"
etc.

Now you can:

put it into comparator
repeat with i = 1 to the number of buttons on this card
   if the myCharacters of button i contains comparator then send mouseUp 
to button i
end repeat

(warning: untested code; may require tweaking...)



On Nov 25, 2005, at 4:39 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Ken Ray wrote:
>
>> On 11/24/05 8:52 PM, "liamlambert" <liamlambert at mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> how do I write this in a switch statement or is there a better way
>>> to write it
>>>
>> Well, first of all, I wouldn't name any buttons with numbers - it can
>> confuse Rev - use something like "B1" or whatever you like. And 
>> secondly, I
>> would put whatever is in "it" into some other variable so you can 
>> make sure
>> it doesn't get messed with.
>>
>>
> I agree with everything Ken said - but wanted to show a couple more 
> versions (just to prove Rev always offers many choices of how to solve 
> something :-)
>
>> My solution below uses B1-B12 instead of 1-12, and has put "it" into 
>> tData:
>>
>> put it into tData
>> put "JK,AB,JL,JM,GK,HK,IK,GL,HL,IL,GM,HM,IM,HN,IN,GN" into \
>>  tPairs
>> put "NextTrack,NextTrack,playpause,back,B1,B2,B3,B4,B5," & \
>>  "B6,B7,B8,B9,B10,B11,B12" into tBtns
>> repeat with x = 1 to the number of items of tPairs
>>  if tData contains (item x of tPairs) then
>>    do "send mouseUp to btn " & quote & (item x of tBtns) & quote
>> end repeat
>>
> For me, it's fatal to use two "parallel" lists like that - sooner or 
> later, I'll want to add, delete or move one of the entries, and 
> mis-count in the other list. Also, I find it easier to read and 
> comprehend if I keep the string I'm matching directly adjacent to the 
> name of the button, so I'd do something like
>
> put it into tData
> put "JK NextTrack,AB NextTrack,JL playpause,JM back" into tPairs
> put comma & "GK B1,HK B2,IK B3,GL B4,HL B5,IL B6,GM B7,HM B8" after 
> tPairs
> put comma & "IM B9,HN B10,IN B11,GN B12" after tPairs
> repeat for each item X in tPairs
>  if tData contains (word 1 of X) then
>    do "send mouseUp to btn " & quote & (word 2 to -1 of X) & quote
> end repeat
>
> I might even do ....
> put "JK  NextTrack," into tPairs
> put "AB  NextTrack," after tPairs
> put "JL  playpause," after tPairs
> ....
> put "GN  B12" after tPairs
>
> which is kind of long winded, but has the advantage of being very easy 
> to scan visually later.  For similar reasons, I'd consider putting 
> them in alphabetical order by the "index" string, rather than grouping 
> by the "effect" button name - more likely to be helpful when I come 
> back to look at this bit of code in a year's time (depends on where 
> the "JK", "AB", etc are coming from).
>
>
>
> Or, I might put lCommands into a script-local variable and do
> (in initialization code)
>
> put "JK NextTrack,AB NextTrack,JL playpause,JM back" into lCommands
> put comma & "GK B1,HK B2,IK B3,GL B4,HL B5,IL B6,GM B7,HM B8" after 
> lCommands
> put comma & "IM B9,HN B10,IN B11,GN B12" after lCommands
> split lCommands with comma and space
>
> (in running code)
>
> put it into tData
> if lCommands[tData] is not empty then
>   do "send mouseUp to btn " & quote & lCommands[tData] & quote
> end if
>
>
>
> Which of these I'd choose probably depends, honestly, mostly on the 
> mood I'm in at the time :-)
>
> I could however probably put together a half-way convincing claim that 
> the choice would be made according to the likelihood of subsequent 
> maintenance efforts, and finding the optimum balance between ease of 
> reading (by programmer) vs conciseness vs speed vs ...
>
> -- 
> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/176 - Release Date: 
> 20/11/2005
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
- -----------------------------------------------------------
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <fde101 at fjrhome.net>

$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten 
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
everlasting life.
$
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

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=MBFP
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



___________________________________________________________
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10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
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From jhurley at infostations.com  Fri Nov 25 09:45:22 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 06:45:22 -0800
Subject: OT Last week's CarTalk puzzler
In-Reply-To: <20051125102324.D70D28254B2@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051125102324.D70D28254B2@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230908bfaccef9fbe2@[69.19.229.121]>

I guess I can assume you have all had time to work on this beautiful 
problem. But if not, read no further.

I really like the  solution that Charles Hartman provided. Simple and precise.

It wasn't the solution I had in mind at all. There is another 
approach, not as quick as Charles', but it not only  demonstrates 
when the number of factors is odd or even, but it also provides a 
method of obtaining how many odd or how many even factors there are, 
and, as a bonus, as a process for finding those factors.

 From the fundamental theorem of arithmetic any number N can be 
represented as a unique product of primes

     N = p1^n1 * p2^n2 * .... etc.

where p1, p2, etc are prime numbers, and n1, n2, etc. are integers

The factors of N are then

     p1^m1 * p2^m2 * ..... etc.

where m1 takes on values from 0 to n1,  m2 takes on values from 0 to n2, etc.

The number of factors is therefore: (n1 + 1) * (n2 + 1) etc.

This product will be odd if and only if EACH of the brackets is odd; 
But  (n + 1) is odd if and only  if n is even.

If all the n's are even, it follow that N is as perfect square.

Similarly  for the odd number of factors.

For example, if N = 24 then its prime factor representation is

     24 = 2^3 * 3^1

And the number of factors is the exponent 3 plus 1, times the 
exponent 1 plus 1, or 4 * 2 = 8

Explicitly the 8 factors are:

     1,2,3,4,6,8,12,24

Each factor is 2 to some power less than or equal to 3, multiplied by 
3 to some power less than or equal to 1.

Jim

From vampire at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 25 09:50:58 2005
From: vampire at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 10:50:58 -0400
Subject: Multiplatform Revolution
In-Reply-To: <C3E7417A-31E8-41AD-B12B-65AAACB0D277@adelphia.net>
References: <768fa4fc0511250533we085f0rf4e8bc746c12fb84@mail.gmail.com>
	<768fa4fc0511250536u48108cfeyef39073956a6101e@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3E7417A-31E8-41AD-B12B-65AAACB0D277@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <A7CCFA50-D916-46C7-8D00-70D65D094979@yahoo.com>

Thanks Tom,

I'm still not clear on if when you buy a platform and add another  
platform are you just buying the ability to produce those executables  
or also run the ide on that platform? I would be amazed if it did not  
let you run the ide but I want to make sure. I figure if I buy it I  
should add the other platform while I am at it. The savings are $100  
and I work on both platforms all the time regardless of if I have a  
specific need at this point. I wish there was some other licensing  
scheme that allowed multiplatform. Maybe a licence that allowed you  
to run the ide on all platforms but if you want to actually produce  
executables for platform x that is when you need to acquire a license  
for that platform. I have always felt that these kinds of tools  
shoudl do all they can to get in peoples hands and get them hooked.  
Make them pay when they actually need it.


Steve


On Nov 25, 2005, at 9:55 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Steve welcome back to the Mac. and welcome to the Revolution!!!
>
> This is just my opinion: I was looking for a solution that would  
> let me develop on the Mac in an upper level scripting language but  
> deliver on the Mac and PC. Rev does it. Then I needed to track down  
> some very specific PC only issues and so I have the license which  
> allows me to run Rev on Windows and code there. Rev does it. You  
> may not need to go that far and you can always upgrade your license  
> if that becomes necessary.
>
> I came from Supercard, which I loved, and found I could get up and  
> running with Rev in a few weeks and was building my first 'real'  
> application for our company in just under 5 weeks. I mean the bells  
> and whistles type. There are a couple of differences that you need  
> to learn between Rev/SC and the online videos help there as well as  
> this list and there are some resources on the web.
>
> I would suggest buying the cheapest version until you get a feel  
> for Rev and then upgrading to what you need later. The same with  
> updates/support. As far as I know Dreamcard is the only one that  
> does not deploy on multiple platforms, I think you buy the one for  
> the platform you are on. I may be wrong though so check the RunRev  
> site.
>
> Truth be told, If you loved SC and yearn to develop for the other  
> 90% of your clients (PC users) then you will fall in love with REV  
> and you will end up buying the more expanded version. ;-) I did and  
> won't turn back.
>
> As far as updates, I let mine lapse after this big project came to  
> completion and although I put it off I plan on updating in the next  
> few weeks anyway. My thoughts are if I am making money with it then  
> I need to support it, if I am playing with it then I don't need to  
> go that far. Plus the updates and feature enhancements and bug  
> fixes are worth it.
>
> Not looking back,
>
> Tom
>
> P.S. Did I mention this list??? It is the single best resource you  
> have available to you.
>
>
> On Nov 25, 2005, at 8:36 AM, vampire at yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> So far I am impressed by revolution. I'm somebody that is coming back
>> to the mac after a decade. At one point in my life I loved HyperCard.
>> Most of my clients are on PCs so if I end up using revolution I am
>> going to need to byte the bullet and buy PC/Mac. Does getting a
>> license for multi-platform entitle you to run the IDE on both
>> platforms? I don't have a specific use for it yet so if I put out the
>> money its a big investment for me at this point. How important would
>> you say is buying the updates (support). Does RR get bug fixes often?
>> Any other pointers? I was about to buy Supercard (mostly to toy with)
>> which I love but not being able to run anything I develop for 90% of
>> my clients seems like learning time not well spent.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Steve
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Fri Nov 25 10:02:04 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 15:02:04 +0000
Subject: Multiplatform Revolution
In-Reply-To: <A7CCFA50-D916-46C7-8D00-70D65D094979@yahoo.com>
References: <768fa4fc0511250533we085f0rf4e8bc746c12fb84@mail.gmail.com>
	<768fa4fc0511250536u48108cfeyef39073956a6101e@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3E7417A-31E8-41AD-B12B-65AAACB0D277@adelphia.net>
	<A7CCFA50-D916-46C7-8D00-70D65D094979@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a05210603bfacd675c69b@[192.168.0.101]>

>Thanks Tom,
>
>I'm still not clear on if when you buy a platform and add another 
>platform are you just buying the ability to produce those 
>executables or also run the ide on that platform?

The RunRev IDE running on any platform can produce Standalones for 
ANY of the supported platforms.

When you buy an additional platform you are just buying the ability 
to run the IDE on that platform.

>  I would be amazed if it did not let you run the ide but I want to 
>make sure. I figure if I buy it I should add the other platform 
>while I am at it. The savings are $100 and I work on both platforms 
>all the time regardless of if I have a specific need at this point. 
>I wish there was some other licensing scheme that allowed 
>multiplatform. Maybe a licence that allowed you to run the ide on 
>all platforms but if you want to actually produce executables for 
>platform x that is when you need to acquire a license for that 
>platform. I have always felt that these kinds of tools shoudl do all 
>they can to get in peoples hands and get them hooked. Make them pay 
>when they actually need it.
>

It works the exact opposite way around! You can develop for any 
target on N host platforms, you pay for the N platforms not for the 
ability to produce Standalones.

Hope this helps
Dave



>Steve
>
>
>On Nov 25, 2005, at 9:55 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>>Steve welcome back to the Mac. and welcome to the Revolution!!!
>>
>>This is just my opinion: I was looking for a solution that would 
>>let me develop on the Mac in an upper level scripting language but 
>>deliver on the Mac and PC. Rev does it. Then I needed to track down 
>>some very specific PC only issues and so I have the license which 
>>allows me to run Rev on Windows and code there. Rev does it. You 
>>may not need to go that far and you can always upgrade your license 
>>if that becomes necessary.
>>
>>I came from Supercard, which I loved, and found I could get up and 
>>running with Rev in a few weeks and was building my first 'real' 
>>application for our company in just under 5 weeks. I mean the bells 
>>and whistles type. There are a couple of differences that you need 
>>to learn between Rev/SC and the online videos help there as well as 
>>this list and there are some resources on the web.
>>
>>I would suggest buying the cheapest version until you get a feel 
>>for Rev and then upgrading to what you need later. The same with 
>>updates/support. As far as I know Dreamcard is the only one that 
>>does not deploy on multiple platforms, I think you buy the one for 
>>the platform you are on. I may be wrong though so check the RunRev 
>>site.
>>
>>Truth be told, If you loved SC and yearn to develop for the other 
>>90% of your clients (PC users) then you will fall in love with REV 
>>and you will end up buying the more expanded version. ;-) I did and 
>>won't turn back.
>>
>>As far as updates, I let mine lapse after this big project came to 
>>completion and although I put it off I plan on updating in the next 
>>few weeks anyway. My thoughts are if I am making money with it then 
>>I need to support it, if I am playing with it then I don't need to 
>>go that far. Plus the updates and feature enhancements and bug 
>>fixes are worth it.
>>
>>Not looking back,
>>
>>Tom
>>
>>P.S. Did I mention this list??? It is the single best resource you 
>>have available to you.
>>
>>
>>On Nov 25, 2005, at 8:36 AM, vampire at yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>>So far I am impressed by revolution. I'm somebody that is coming back
>>>to the mac after a decade. At one point in my life I loved HyperCard.
>>>Most of my clients are on PCs so if I end up using revolution I am
>>>going to need to byte the bullet and buy PC/Mac. Does getting a
>>>license for multi-platform entitle you to run the IDE on both
>>>platforms? I don't have a specific use for it yet so if I put out the
>>>money its a big investment for me at this point. How important would
>>>you say is buying the updates (support). Does RR get bug fixes often?
>>>Any other pointers? I was about to buy Supercard (mostly to toy with)
>>>which I love but not being able to run anything I develop for 90% of
>>>my clients seems like learning time not well spent.
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>Steve
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>use-revolution mailing list
>>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>subscription preferences:
>>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-revolution mailing list
>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>subscription preferences:
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From rcozens at pon.net  Fri Nov 25 10:40:39 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 07:40:39 -0800
Subject: seems to meny If
In-Reply-To: <2E4F9566-D538-4543-BF55-4275948E5C42@mac.com>
References: <2E4F9566-D538-4543-BF55-4275948E5C42@mac.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.10.1.20051125072114.00f70bb0@pon.net>

Hi Liam,

>how do I write this in a switch statement or is there a better way
>to write it
>
>if it contains JK then send mouseUp to button "NextTrack"
>     if it contains AB then send mouseUp to button "NextTrack"
>     if it contains JL then send mouseUp to button "playpause"
>     if it contains JM then send mouseUp to button "back"
>     if it contains GK then send mouseUp to button "1"
>     if it contains HK then send mouseUp to button "2"
>     if it contains IK then send mouseUp to button "3"
>     if it contains GL then send mouseUp to button "4"
>     if it contains HL then send mouseUp to button "5"
>     if it contains IL then send mouseUp to button "6"
>     if it contains GM then send mouseUp to button "7"
>     if it contains HM then send mouseUp to button "8"
>     if it contains IM then send mouseUp to button "9"
>     if it contains HN then send mouseUp to button "10"
>     if it contains "IN" then send mouseUp to button "11"
>     if it contains GN then send mouseUp to button "12"

Note that the following switch logic only works if the 16 if 
statements are mutually exclusive (ie: it cannot contain both AB and 
JL, for example)

switch
         case (it contains JK) -- your handler responds identically to JK & AB
         case (it contains AB)
                 send mouseUp to button "NextTrack"
                 break
         case (it contains JL)
                 send mouseUp to button "playpause"
                 break
         case (it contains JM)
                 send mouseUp to button "back"
                 break
         case (it contains GK)
                 send mouseUp to button "1"
                 break
         case (it contains HK)
                 send mouseUp to button "2"
                 break
         case (it contains IK)
                 send mouseUp to button "3"
                 break
         case (it contains GL)
                 send mouseUp to button "4"
                 break
         case (it contains HL)
                 send mouseUp to button "5"
                 break
         case (it contains IL)
                 send mouseUp to button "6"
                 break
         case (it contains GM)
                 send mouseUp to button "7"
                 break
         case (it contains HM)
                 send mouseUp to button "8"
                 break
         case (it contains IM)
                 send mouseUp to button "9"
                 break
         case (it contains HN)
                 send mouseUp to button "10"
                 break
         case (it contains "IN")
                 send mouseUp to button "11"
                 break
         case (it contains GN)
                 send mouseUp to button "12"
                 break
end switch

Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
  Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

  from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) 



From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Fri Nov 25 11:10:14 2005
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 17:10:14 +0100
Subject: Near completion of Color Pattern Toolkit: IDE, engine, and font
 problems (part two)
Message-ID: <43873766.4050304@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

On Fri, 25 Nov ,"MisterX" <monsieurx at monsieurx.com> wrote:

> Wilhelm
>
> i tried your stack. After each redraw it is 2X slower. When i tried to see
> why, MC started showing really weird artifacts, menus bars gone wrong, etc
> and then it crashed. (glad it was the only stack opened at the time).
> (snip)
> There IS a memory leak
> (engine 2.6.6) and further another problem with the redraw of the window
> in XP thereafter. Each iteration doubles the time it takes... After that,
> MC was running on mollases (despite your stack closed)
> (snip)
> But the leak is well in the engine.
> (snip)
> One suggestion is to use "graphics" instead of fields. MoireX did that and
> i dont think there was as much overhead...
>
> Cheers
> Xavier
> -- http://monsieurx.com/taoo



Xavier,

Thanks for the confirmation of my findings.

I just used fields as color units because that old stack of mine had them.
I do not think (did not try yet) that graphics would make a difference.

As I mentioned in the first part of my report (about IDE problems of Nov 
22) the present version of the toolkit uses only *one* single field now, 
but with 19.800 color chars in it, which for a "text" really  is not 
much. Thus we have about 20.000 fields less.

The engine leak is there as before. Scanning an 100X100 area of the 
image thumb brings down my computer immediately.

Cheers,

Wilhelm

<http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>




From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Fri Nov 25 11:16:30 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 16:16:30 +0000
Subject: Multiplatform Revolution
In-Reply-To: <a05210603bfacd675c69b@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <768fa4fc0511250533we085f0rf4e8bc746c12fb84@mail.gmail.com>
	<768fa4fc0511250536u48108cfeyef39073956a6101e@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3E7417A-31E8-41AD-B12B-65AAACB0D277@adelphia.net>
	<A7CCFA50-D916-46C7-8D00-70D65D094979@yahoo.com>
	<a05210603bfacd675c69b@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <a05210600bface8e9555f@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

Here's a question of my own on the subject. If we have 2 licenses one 
for Mac and one for Windows, is it ok for 2 developers to use the Mac 
version at the same time as long as they are not using the Windows 
version at EXACTLY the same time?? Or Vice Versa!

Thanks
Dave


>>Thanks Tom,
>>
>>I'm still not clear on if when you buy a platform and add another 
>>platform are you just buying the ability to produce those 
>>executables or also run the ide on that platform?
>
>The RunRev IDE running on any platform can produce Standalones for 
>ANY of the supported platforms.
>
>When you buy an additional platform you are just buying the ability 
>to run the IDE on that platform.
>
>>  I would be amazed if it did not let you run the ide but I want to 
>>make sure. I figure if I buy it I should add the other platform 
>>while I am at it. The savings are $100 and I work on both platforms 
>>all the time regardless of if I have a specific need at this point. 
>>I wish there was some other licensing scheme that allowed 
>>multiplatform. Maybe a licence that allowed you to run the ide on 
>>all platforms but if you want to actually produce executables for 
>>platform x that is when you need to acquire a license for that 
>>platform. I have always felt that these kinds of tools shoudl do 
>>all they can to get in peoples hands and get them hooked. Make them 
>>pay when they actually need it.
>>
>
>It works the exact opposite way around! You can develop for any 
>target on N host platforms, you pay for the N platforms not for the 
>ability to produce Standalones.
>
>Hope this helps
>Dave
>
>
>>Steve
>>
>>
>>On Nov 25, 2005, at 9:55 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>>
>>>Steve welcome back to the Mac. and welcome to the Revolution!!!
>>>
>>>This is just my opinion: I was looking for a solution that would 
>>>let me develop on the Mac in an upper level scripting language but 
>>>deliver on the Mac and PC. Rev does it. Then I needed to track 
>>>down some very specific PC only issues and so I have the license 
>>>which allows me to run Rev on Windows and code there. Rev does it. 
>>>You may not need to go that far and you can always upgrade your 
>>>license if that becomes necessary.
>>>
>>>I came from Supercard, which I loved, and found I could get up and 
>>>running with Rev in a few weeks and was building my first 'real' 
>>>application for our company in just under 5 weeks. I mean the 
>>>bells and whistles type. There are a couple of differences that 
>>>you need to learn between Rev/SC and the online videos help there 
>>>as well as this list and there are some resources on the web.
>>>
>>>I would suggest buying the cheapest version until you get a feel 
>>>for Rev and then upgrading to what you need later. The same with 
>>>updates/support. As far as I know Dreamcard is the only one that 
>>>does not deploy on multiple platforms, I think you buy the one for 
>>>the platform you are on. I may be wrong though so check the RunRev 
>>>site.
>>>
>>>Truth be told, If you loved SC and yearn to develop for the other 
>>>90% of your clients (PC users) then you will fall in love with REV 
>>>and you will end up buying the more expanded version. ;-) I did 
>>>and won't turn back.
>>>
>>>As far as updates, I let mine lapse after this big project came to 
>>>completion and although I put it off I plan on updating in the 
>>>next few weeks anyway. My thoughts are if I am making money with 
>>>it then I need to support it, if I am playing with it then I don't 
>>>need to go that far. Plus the updates and feature enhancements and 
>>>bug fixes are worth it.
>>>
>>>Not looking back,
>>>
>>>Tom
>>>
>>>P.S. Did I mention this list??? It is the single best resource you 
>>>have available to you.
>>>
>>>
>>>On Nov 25, 2005, at 8:36 AM, vampire at yahoo.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>So far I am impressed by revolution. I'm somebody that is coming back
>>>>to the mac after a decade. At one point in my life I loved HyperCard.
>>>>Most of my clients are on PCs so if I end up using revolution I am
>>>>going to need to byte the bullet and buy PC/Mac. Does getting a
>>>>license for multi-platform entitle you to run the IDE on both
>>>>platforms? I don't have a specific use for it yet so if I put out the
>>>>money its a big investment for me at this point. How important would
>>>>you say is buying the updates (support). Does RR get bug fixes often?
>>>>Any other pointers? I was about to buy Supercard (mostly to toy with)
>>>>which I love but not being able to run anything I develop for 90% of
>>>>my clients seems like learning time not well spent.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks
>>>>
>>>>Steve
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>use-revolution mailing list
>>>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>>subscription preferences:
>>>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>use-revolution mailing list
>>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>subscription preferences:
>>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-revolution mailing list
>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>subscription preferences:
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Nov 25 11:35:05 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 11:35:05 -0500
Subject: Multiplatform Revolution
In-Reply-To: <A7CCFA50-D916-46C7-8D00-70D65D094979@yahoo.com>
References: <768fa4fc0511250533we085f0rf4e8bc746c12fb84@mail.gmail.com>
	<768fa4fc0511250536u48108cfeyef39073956a6101e@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3E7417A-31E8-41AD-B12B-65AAACB0D277@adelphia.net>
	<A7CCFA50-D916-46C7-8D00-70D65D094979@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <EAB04FA1-9216-452D-96B3-2AAEE1F42040@adelphia.net>

Steve,

No, the ability to produce standalones for multiple platforms is  
there at the start. Then like in your case if you want to run the ide  
on a different platform then you should pay for that. I develop for  
both platforms and do most ide work on the Mac, only a couple of  
times did I need to open a stack on Windows in the ide, most times  
testing the standalone was enough. Also, I can share a folder on my  
Mac with Virtual PC and test immediately on the Mac and PC. Then I  
test on an actual PC hardware when I am close to finished. All in  
all, Rev's pricing is very comparable to other solutions.

Tom

On Nov 25, 2005, at 9:50 AM, Steve wrote:

> Thanks Tom,
>
> I'm still not clear on if when you buy a platform and add another  
> platform are you just buying the ability to produce those  
> executables or also run the ide on that platform? I would be amazed  
> if it did not let you run the ide but I want to make sure. I figure  
> if I buy it I should add the other platform while I am at it. The  
> savings are $100 and I work on both platforms all the time  
> regardless of if I have a specific need at this point. I wish there  
> was some other licensing scheme that allowed multiplatform. Maybe a  
> licence that allowed you to run the ide on all platforms but if you  
> want to actually produce executables for platform x that is when  
> you need to acquire a license for that platform. I have always felt  
> that these kinds of tools shoudl do all they can to get in peoples  
> hands and get them hooked. Make them pay when they actually need it.
>
>
> Steve
>
>
> On Nov 25, 2005, at 9:55 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> Steve welcome back to the Mac. and welcome to the Revolution!!!
>>
>> This is just my opinion: I was looking for a solution that would  
>> let me develop on the Mac in an upper level scripting language but  
>> deliver on the Mac and PC. Rev does it. Then I needed to track  
>> down some very specific PC only issues and so I have the license  
>> which allows me to run Rev on Windows and code there. Rev does it.  
>> You may not need to go that far and you can always upgrade your  
>> license if that becomes necessary.
>>
>> I came from Supercard, which I loved, and found I could get up and  
>> running with Rev in a few weeks and was building my first 'real'  
>> application for our company in just under 5 weeks. I mean the  
>> bells and whistles type. There are a couple of differences that  
>> you need to learn between Rev/SC and the online videos help there  
>> as well as this list and there are some resources on the web.
>>
>> I would suggest buying the cheapest version until you get a feel  
>> for Rev and then upgrading to what you need later. The same with  
>> updates/support. As far as I know Dreamcard is the only one that  
>> does not deploy on multiple platforms, I think you buy the one for  
>> the platform you are on. I may be wrong though so check the RunRev  
>> site.
>>
>> Truth be told, If you loved SC and yearn to develop for the other  
>> 90% of your clients (PC users) then you will fall in love with REV  
>> and you will end up buying the more expanded version. ;-) I did  
>> and won't turn back.
>>
>> As far as updates, I let mine lapse after this big project came to  
>> completion and although I put it off I plan on updating in the  
>> next few weeks anyway. My thoughts are if I am making money with  
>> it then I need to support it, if I am playing with it then I don't  
>> need to go that far. Plus the updates and feature enhancements and  
>> bug fixes are worth it.
>>
>> Not looking back,
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> P.S. Did I mention this list??? It is the single best resource you  
>> have available to you.
>>
>>
>> On Nov 25, 2005, at 8:36 AM, vampire at yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> So far I am impressed by revolution. I'm somebody that is coming  
>>> back
>>> to the mac after a decade. At one point in my life I loved  
>>> HyperCard.
>>> Most of my clients are on PCs so if I end up using revolution I am
>>> going to need to byte the bullet and buy PC/Mac. Does getting a
>>> license for multi-platform entitle you to run the IDE on both
>>> platforms? I don't have a specific use for it yet so if I put out  
>>> the
>>> money its a big investment for me at this point. How important would
>>> you say is buying the updates (support). Does RR get bug fixes  
>>> often?
>>> Any other pointers? I was about to buy Supercard (mostly to toy  
>>> with)
>>> which I love but not being able to run anything I develop for 90% of
>>> my clients seems like learning time not well spent.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From frny4x at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 25 11:38:19 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 08:38:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Graphic Design Tools
Message-ID: <20051125163819.68940.qmail@web32813.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I see Tactile Media's site indexed at the RunRev site.  Impressive graphic design.
   
  Anyone know what tool they use for graphic design, and if not, anyone have any good suggestions for inexpensive, easy graphic design tools?
   
  Thanks.
   
  Frank


From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Fri Nov 25 12:05:02 2005
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 12:05:02 EST
Subject: Thanks for the welcome and initial responses / MIDI
Message-ID: <244.21854d9.30b89e3e@aol.com>

> Now, to Really get me off to an enthusiastic start with RunRev, can  Someone
> send me that MIDI Builder demo stack?   :)       Somebody here has to have  
it.

I am sure there are others, but you could try the  two mci stacks at 
www.FlexibleLearning.com/xtalk. One is specifically a  midi player exemplar for rev, 
the other for mciSendString in general.
 
/H


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Nov 25 12:28:33 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 09:28:33 -0800
Subject: group syntax question
In-Reply-To: <24851c9a9dc46a77c5b7244004e6ea41@fjrhome.net>
References: <6239863560.20051121225529@ahsoftware.net>
	<C01CBC4E-BAFD-42E1-9749-F02C898205A8@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<15042762869.20051121234349@ahsoftware.net>
	<24851c9a9dc46a77c5b7244004e6ea41@fjrhome.net>
Message-ID: <1091094674.20051125092833@ahsoftware.net>

Frank-

Friday, November 25, 2005, 6:26:49 AM, you wrote:

> Why not use hilitedButtonName?

Yes, thanks, that's what I'm using now. As long as I'm careful about
my naming conventions that does the trick for me.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Nov 25 12:36:43 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 09:36:43 -0800
Subject: OT Last week's CarTalk puzzler
In-Reply-To: <p06230908bfaccef9fbe2@[69\.19\.229\.121]>
References: <20051125102324.D70D28254B2@mail.runrev.com>
	<p06230908bfaccef9fbe2@[69.19.229.121]>
Message-ID: <1611584558.20051125093643@ahsoftware.net>

Jim-

Friday, November 25, 2005, 6:45:22 AM, you wrote:

I think it's simpler than that. (warning - it's Friday morning and the
caffeine hasn't really taken effect yet)

Consider any number in terms of its factors. By definition, factors
come in pairs:

the factors of 15 are 1 x 15, 3 x 5
the factors of 17 are 1 x 17
the factors of 18 are 1 x 18, 2 x 9, 3 x 6

The *only* exceptions to this are perfect squares, unless you want to
count the same factor twice:

the factors of 16 are 1 x 16, 2 x 8, and 4

Therefore, every switch will be toggled an even number of times and
turned off except for the perfect squares.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Nov 25 12:38:04 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 09:38:04 -0800
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <a05210602bfacb3b7a757@[192\.168\.0\.101]>
References: <43864AF8.8040602@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
	<64674.193.29.77.101.1132905741.squirrel@193.29.77.101>
	<a05210602bfacb3b7a757@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <1081665474.20051125093804@ahsoftware.net>

David-

Friday, November 25, 2005, 5:34:28 AM, you wrote:

> set itemDelimiter to :/"

I'm surprised this works at all...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Nov 25 12:50:32 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 09:50:32 -0800
Subject: seems to meny If
In-Reply-To: <815c57c676c6e5e16424f76a44ea517e@fjrhome.net>
References: <BFABDA51.30625%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<4386DBB5.9040604@tweedly.net>
	<815c57c676c6e5e16424f76a44ea517e@fjrhome.net>
Message-ID: <812413149.20051125095032@ahsoftware.net>

Frank-

Friday, November 25, 2005, 6:41:20 AM, you wrote:

>Another way to handle this is to create a custom property on the
>buttons and assign those stings to the custom property:

...and just for another way to do things, I'd be more inclined to
stuff these into an array and get them from there for easy maintenance
and expandability:

put "NextTrack" into actionsA["JK"]
put "NextTrack" into actionsA["AB"]
put "playpause" into actionsA["JL"]
put "back" into actionsA["JM"]
-- etc.

-- now look up the proper button and take action
put it into tData
get actionsA[tData]
if it is not empty then
  send "mouseUp" to button it
end if

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Fri Nov 25 13:27:27 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 19:27:27 +0100
Subject: Near completion of Color Pattern Toolkit: IDE, engine,
	and font problems (part two)
In-Reply-To: <43873766.4050304@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <20051125174525.BDC1E8253CE@mail.runrev.com>

 
Wilhelm

> Thanks for the confirmation of my findings.

>From one crazy painter to another, it's a pleasure to try your tools ;)

> The engine leak is there as before. Scanning an 100X100 area 
> of the image thumb brings down my computer immediately.

it does take 4 or 5 successive runs to make it much slower here. But the
effect is doubled each time...

> I just used fields as color units because that old stack of 
> mine had them.
> I do not think (did not try yet) that graphics would make a 
> difference.

My logic is that displaying a field takes more resources than just a
graphic... I could be wrong but needs testing...

> As I mentioned in the first part of my report (about IDE 
> problems of Nov
> 22) the present version of the toolkit uses only *one* single 
> field now, but with 19.800 color chars in it, which for a 
> "text" really  is not much. Thus we have about 20.000 fields less.

Text, no, but 1000 of anything controls wise will cost a lot more than 20K's
of text... This is why I went from graphics I could color to a single paint
control and the performance showed right away the benefits... Note that
painting was just as slow as creating the fields (though just an impression,
im sure the paint is much faster)... 

your code is not much different than mine btw... Mine is overly complicated
to allow differnet modes of drawing and types of colorimetric function
parametrizing but your does have the fields overhead and that's where things
go really slow. In my stack, there is not issues with speed like you had.
There wasn't in the old model with graphics, and there isn't in the new with
paint. 

My guess is that you are overloading something... Since the number of fields
is constant, consider what changes... I tried to isolate it but hand to do
some work and couldn't continue... 

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo



From gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com  Fri Nov 25 13:24:09 2005
From: gcanyon at inspiredlogic.com (Geoff Canyon)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 10:24:09 -0800
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bfac9cf84ebe@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210606bfaba4a06ce5@[192.168.0.101]>
	<p06230905bfaba8e8ef91@[192.168.1.103]>
	<a05210600bfabcbbbf557@[192.168.0.101]>	<43862761.2030201@comcast.net>
	<a05210600bfabe8d85d77@[192.168.0.101]>
	<1DED2654-9A82-4B29-A0F8-92611A7A20A8@inspiredlogic.com>
	<a05210600bfabfa19c9c9@[192.168.0.101]>
	<328EA437-1752-4823-B24B-01CDAF9BD15A@inspiredlogic.com>
	<a05210600bfac9cf84ebe@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <7A922284-AE78-4EE0-BAD2-FBEDE748A5E8@inspiredlogic.com>


On Nov 25, 2005, at 2:59 AM, David Burgun wrote:

>> It's entirely possible to have a group that is not on any card. To  
>> do this, simply create a new stack, add a button, group the  
>> button, and type this in the message box:
>>
>> remove group 1 from this card
>>
>> It's a limitation in the app browser, certainly, that the group in  
>> question won't show up in the stack. It shouldn't show up under  
>> the card, because it's not on the card.
>
> In this case, if it's not in the card, then surely it's not in the  
> stack and should not be available for "Placing" or whatver.

This simply isn't true. It is possible for a group to exist in a  
stack _without_ being on any card in that stack. The above method  
will create such a stack/group. As Jacque pointed out, if there are  
more than one card in a stack and you delete the last card containing  
a group, that will also leave you with a stack containing backgrounds  
that are not on any card.

>>
>> I'm not sure I'm following what you're describing after that part,  
>> but it sounds like you placed the group, which would make it show  
>> up in the app browser, allowing you to delete it.
>
> Yes.
>
>> Again, I'm not sure I'm following, but it sounds like getting rid  
>> of this extraneous group fixed your menu bar problems. If so, great.
>
> Yes.
>
>> So, there is definitely a limitation in the app browser, but not a  
>> bug. It sounds like a useful feature request to backgrounds that  
>> aren't in any card under the stack.
>
> No. it's a bug in RunRev. The only way a group could be created  
> like that, is in a stack that exists in memory but not as a file.  
> This is possible - once! But during the course of tracking this  
> problem down I quit RunRev, restarted the machine and re-loaded  
> RunRev. The Group was part of the stack where the error occured.  
> When I created another stack the problem wasn't present, yet the  
> Group in question was still in the Place Groups Sub-Menu. Besides  
> all this I really don't think a Group can exist (or at least be  
> accessible by RunRev), unless it is in a stack, and all stacks have  
> at least one card, and they should appear in the App Browser anyway.

You are correct that a group can't exist outside a stack. You are  
correct that a stack must have at least one card. You are incorrect  
that therefore the group must be in the card. You are incorrect that  
this is a bug. It is a limitation. The app browser doesn't display  
any contents for the stack itself -- this is a limitation. If the  
group _is_ on the card and _doesn't_ show up on that card in the app  
browser, _that_ would be a bug. But that's not what you described.

>
>> How the group got there in the first place remains a question for  
>> investigation. You can certainly submit it as a bug. If it's not  
>> reproducible it'll be difficult to confirm, and harder to fix  
>> (assuming it is in fact a bug).
>
> Yes, It's a Bug - Shock Horror! There are loads of em in RunRev -  
> Get used to it and stop being in denial!

No denial here. I can view the report in bugzilla and see that there  
are currently 586 active bugs, which is far fewer than there were a  
few years ago. I submitted some of them, too. Most of mine have been  
closed (I haven't submitted any lately). As others have pointed out,  
sarcasm and hostility isn't likely to help things much.

gc (done here)


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Fri Nov 25 13:49:24 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 10:49:24 -0800
Subject: Multiplatform Revolution
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bface8e9555f@[192\.168\.0\.101]>
References: <768fa4fc0511250533we085f0rf4e8bc746c12fb84@mail.gmail.com>
	<768fa4fc0511250536u48108cfeyef39073956a6101e@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3E7417A-31E8-41AD-B12B-65AAACB0D277@adelphia.net>
	<A7CCFA50-D916-46C7-8D00-70D65D094979@yahoo.com>
	<a05210603bfacd675c69b@[192.168.0.101]>
	<a05210600bface8e9555f@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <1125945028.20051125104924@ahsoftware.net>

David-

Friday, November 25, 2005, 8:16:30 AM, you wrote:

> Here's a question of my own on the subject. If we have 2 licenses one
> for Mac and one for Windows, is it ok for 2 developers to use the Mac
> version at the same time as long as they are not using the Windows 
> version at EXACTLY the same time?? Or Vice Versa!

IMO, licensing issues are better directed at the rev team at
support at runrev.com. All we can do here is guess at them.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Nov 25 14:13:56 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 11:13:56 -0800
Subject: Web Plugin for metacard player ( like flash plugin for browsers)
In-Reply-To: <8CD3C97D72BC144CB87AEBAD8D2E973202DF143F@GAIA.FBL.insead.intra>
References: <8CD3C97D72BC144CB87AEBAD8D2E973202DF143F@GAIA.FBL.insead.intra>
Message-ID: <68A6F21B-7798-4E73-AA4E-D6FD6E1F9979@danshafer.com>

There is not (at least yet) a Web browser plugin for Revolution or  
MetaCard.

On Nov 25, 2005, at 3:05 AM, MITTAL Pradeep Kumar wrote:

> Is it possible to launch player from the webpage  (with parameters of
> location mc files) ?  There are flash plugin for browser . do we have
> same thing in revolution too??
>
> Thanks for your help
> Best Regards
> Pradeep
>




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From davis.phil at comcast.net  Fri Nov 25 14:14:17 2005
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 11:14:17 -0800
Subject: seems to meny If
In-Reply-To: <2E4F9566-D538-4543-BF55-4275948E5C42@mac.com>
References: <2E4F9566-D538-4543-BF55-4275948E5C42@mac.com>
Message-ID: <43876289.1010206@comcast.net>

Hi Liam,

I'm coming to the party late, but here's another way to streamline your 
code. If you're open to changing the button names, why not change them 
to their corresponding values of 'it'? For example, the label of btn 
"AB" would be "NextTrack" according to your original code.

If the text on the button communicates something to the user, you can 
set the labels of the buttons to display whatever text you wish on the 
button itself.

Then your code can be reduced to a single line:

    send "mouseUp" to btn it -- no need for an 'if' now


Just another approach... Thanks -
Phil Davis


liamlambert wrote:
>     
> how do I write this in a switch statement or is there a better way
> to write it
> 
> if it contains JK then send mouseUp to button "NextTrack"
>     if it contains AB then send mouseUp to button "NextTrack"
>     if it contains JL then send mouseUp to button "playpause"
>     if it contains JM then send mouseUp to button "back"
>     if it contains GK then send mouseUp to button "1"
>     if it contains HK then send mouseUp to button "2"
>     if it contains IK then send mouseUp to button "3"
>     if it contains GL then send mouseUp to button "4"
>     if it contains HL then send mouseUp to button "5"
>     if it contains IL then send mouseUp to button "6"
>     if it contains GM then send mouseUp to button "7"
>     if it contains HM then send mouseUp to button "8"
>     if it contains IM then send mouseUp to button "9"
>     if it contains HN then send mouseUp to button "10"
>     if it contains "IN" then send mouseUp to button "11"
>     if it contains GN then send mouseUp to button "12"
> 
> thanks
> Liam L.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 



From jhurley at infostations.com  Fri Nov 25 14:32:32 2005
From: jhurley at infostations.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 11:32:32 -0800
Subject: OT Last week's CarTalk puzzler
In-Reply-To: <20051125180002.C741C825366@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051125180002.C741C825366@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p06230909bfad12e6e763@[69.19.229.121]>

>Mark Wieder wrote:
>
>Jim-
>
>Friday, November 25, 2005, 6:45:22 AM, you wrote:
>
>I think it's simpler than that. (warning - it's Friday morning and the
>caffeine hasn't really taken effect yet)
>
>Consider any number in terms of its factors. By definition, factors
>come in pairs:
>
>the factors of 15 are 1 x 15, 3 x 5
>the factors of 17 are 1 x 17
>the factors of 18 are 1 x 18, 2 x 9, 3 x 6
>
>The *only* exceptions to this are perfect squares, unless you want to
>count the same factor twice:
>
>the factors of 16 are 1 x 16, 2 x 8, and 4
>
>Therefore, every switch will be toggled an even number of times and
>turned off except for the perfect squares.
>
>--
>-Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>


Yes, Mark. But I think that is essentially Charles solution. It is 
certainly simpler. (But not as rich, IMHO :))

For some reason I didn't get Issue 99 of the Run Rev list. I presume 
that is where my alternate approach appears, and what you are 
responding to.


Jim



From vampire at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 25 14:38:32 2005
From: vampire at yahoo.com (vampire at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 15:38:32 -0400
Subject: Multiplatform Revolution
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bfacc4f6aa44@192.168.0.101>
References: <768fa4fc0511250533we085f0rf4e8bc746c12fb84@mail.gmail.com>
	<768fa4fc0511250536u48108cfeyef39073956a6101e@mail.gmail.com>
	<a05210600bfacc4f6aa44@192.168.0.101>
Message-ID: <768fa4fc0511251138m313bbc0cq5c896d36e7f883fd@mail.gmail.com>

So a studio licence for a given platform lets you roll out on other
platforms? The extra $199 is to use the ide on the other platforms?
Guess I had it all wrong.

Steve



On 11/25/05, David Burgun <dburgun at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> >  Does getting a license for multi-platform entitle you to run the IDE on both
>
> If you get the studio version, you the IDE will run on one platform
> of your choice, and you can added the ability to run on additional
> platforms for a reduced price for each additional platform.
>
> You can build standalones to target any of the supported platforms though.
>
> If I were you, I'd just buy a studio license for one platform, this
> entitles you to one year of free updates and you can renew at the end
> of that. You can always buy an addtional platform when if and when
> you want to.
>
> The base system costs ?199 (one host platform) and each additional
> host platform costs ?133.
>
> Hope this helps
> Dave
>
>
> >So far I am impressed by revolution. I'm somebody that is coming back
> >to the mac after a decade. At one point in my life I loved HyperCard.
> >Most of my clients are on PCs so if I end up using revolution I am
> >going to need to byte the bullet and buy PC/Mac. Does getting a
> >license for multi-platform entitle you to run the IDE on both
> >platforms? I don't have a specific use for it yet so if I put out the
> >money its a big investment for me at this point. How important would
> >you say is buying the updates (support). Does RR get bug fixes often?
> >Any other pointers? I was about to buy Supercard (mostly to toy with)
> >which I love but not being able to run anything I develop for 90% of
> >my clients seems like learning time not well spent.
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >Steve
> >_______________________________________________
> >use-revolution mailing list
> >use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >subscription preferences:
> >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>


--
Steven Fernandez
(787) 647-6800


From alex at tweedly.net  Fri Nov 25 14:48:31 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 19:48:31 +0000
Subject: [UPD] bitwise "shift"s
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-F206710E1791F994215B998C3570@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY105-F206710E1791F994215B998C3570@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <43876A8F.8060906@tweedly.net>

Sean Shao wrote:

> Sorry for the post earlier, but it seems that there's a small error in 
> it.. Here are the 3 fixed bitwise shift operators (shiftLeft (<<), 
> shiftRight (>>) and shiftRightZero (>>>)).. Basically there are some 
> integer combinations that would make the other formulas fail and 
> sometimes the shiftRightZero would return a negative integer (which is 
> impossible).. So here are the three corrected functions:
>
Thanks again for these functions, and for all the time it must have 
taken to figure out what you can do and what you can't.

Alejandro got me interested in the md4digest function, so I tried it 
using your functions, and I'm afraid there is still one problem.

One example that fails is
  put 6448964192 into tVar
  put bitwiseShiftRightZero(tVar, 29) into tResult
  put format("%08x %08x", tVar, tResult) into msg

This results in
80636260         0000000C
when it should give
80636260         00000004

The problem is that 6448964192 is a positive number which has the "sign" 
bit set - i.e. it's larger than a single 32-bit positive integer can 
hold, but Rev 2.6.1 uses (I guess??) 64-bit ints if needed (??)

I added the following (very inelegant) code to the start of each of your 
functions, and all appears to be now OK.

>   repeat while p1 > 2^31
>      put p1 - 2^32 into p1
>   end repeat

My attempt at the md4digest function now passes all the short test cases 
from the reference implementation, but still fails on the long ones 
.....  sigh :-(

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.7/182 - Release Date: 24/11/2005



From frny4x at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 25 15:16:34 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 12:16:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Web Plugin for metacard player ( like flash plugin for browsers)
In-Reply-To: <68A6F21B-7798-4E73-AA4E-D6FD6E1F9979@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <20051125201634.27378.qmail@web32807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

> There is not (at least yet) a Web browser plugin for Revolution or  
> MetaCard.
   
  It's really a shame there isn't.     That would open up a whole new world
  of possibilities for this product - and for expanding the user base.
  

Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:
  There is not (at least yet) a Web browser plugin for Revolution or 
MetaCard.

On Nov 25, 2005, at 3:05 AM, MITTAL Pradeep Kumar wrote:

> Is it possible to launch player from the webpage (with parameters of
> location mc files) ? There are flash plugin for browser . do we have
> same thing in revolution too??
>
> Thanks for your help
> Best Regards
> Pradeep
>




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
  



From frny4x at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 25 15:29:49 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 12:29:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PDF documentation
In-Reply-To: <20051125201634.27378.qmail@web32807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20051125202949.31464.qmail@web32807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Ok, I've been through the videos, and I scanned some docs.
  But, I'm a couch documentation reader, not a sit-at-the-screen docs reader.
   
  Are the manuals available anywhere in PDF form, where I can download/print,
  and do some more serious couch reading?


From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Fri Nov 25 15:29:50 2005
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 21:29:50 +0100
Subject: Near completion of Color Pattern Toolkit: IDE, engine, and font
 problems (part two)
Message-ID: <4387743E.5060403@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

An additional remark concerning the reported engine leak (Windows XP and 
MacOS):

The increments in script execution time occur probably in many scripts, 
if not in all, although for shorter scripts with no loops or limited 
loops this may be hardly noticeable.

One example which I just tested:

There are six buttons in the color pattern toolkit that can store the 
color values of a given image for further processing or later retrieving.

The following script stores the values in a one-dimensional array and 
customproperty.

"put 0 into counter
  repeat for each Char C in fld 1
    add 1 to counter
    put the backcolor of char counter of fld 1 into aColor[counter]
  end repeat
 set the customproperties[oldColors] of me to aColor"

For the roughly 20.000 chars this takes 550 milliseconds when the stack 
has been newly opened on my XP computer.

For each subsequent running of the script an increment of 20 to 40 ms 
occurs, but this is an average increment, as it does not go up 
consistently. In between small decrements can happen, but overall the 
execution time goes up.

After a number of about 30 runs the execution time of the above script 
reaches 1500 milliseconds.

On the basis of this observation it is understandable that during a 
session with the toolkit - where all the time color values are put into 
arrays for faster processing or transforming inside the array or between 
two or more arrays - that performance gradually gets very slow and the 
engine may choke for a while.
But never before using the additional scan feature illustrated in the 
test stack <www.sanke.org/Software/ScanTest2700.zip> I have experienced 
such a quick and devastating breakdown like I - and subsequently Xavier 
- have described in our posts.


Regards,


Wilhelm Sanke
<http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>





From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Nov 25 15:47:08 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 12:47:08 -0800
Subject: PDF documentation
In-Reply-To: <20051125202949.31464.qmail@web32807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051125202949.31464.qmail@web32807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9CD93D9A-B899-4104-875C-7F7EE9C899C8@danshafer.com>

Frank....

The official docs are available in printed form via the RunRev site,  
I think, but they take a very long time to get to the U.S. (at least  
last I checked).

If you want to dive into Rev this weekend in PDF form, you can buy my  
"Software at the Speed of Thought" book, aimed primarily at beginners  
and early intermediate users. It's available at:

http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html along with two smaller  
eBooks on more advanced topics.


On Nov 25, 2005, at 12:29 PM, Frank R wrote:

> Are the manuals available anywhere in PDF form, where I can  
> download/print,
>   and do some more serious couch reading?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 25 15:51:54 2005
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 12:51:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Thanks for the welcome and initial responses / MIDI
In-Reply-To: <20051125153411.3A1338254D8@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20051125205154.91922.qmail@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Frank,

Welcome to RunReev! :-)

Look here:

<http://support.runrev.com/resources/unsupported.php>
This is set of useful stacks that are provided by
Runtime 
but not supported. It includes: sample encryption
scripts, 
a timeline animation tool, a tool for doing text to
speech 
on Linux and Unix, a MIDI music file builder, XML-RPC
examples,
XML Soap examples, an XML stack showing a scripted
tree view, 
and a video capture example.

<http://downloads.runrev.com/resources/unsupported/unsupportedstacks.zip>

You could find useful many MIDI related
stacks produced by UDI:

<http://homepage.mac.com/udi/stack/tool.html>

Among these stacks:

<http://homepage.mac.com/udi/stack/makeSMF133.hqx>
makeSMF make a MIDI file from strings that like a Play

sentence of HyperTalk. e.g. C4q E G... This stack work

with Revolution on Mac, OSX, Win, and other.

<http://homepage.mac.com/udi/stack/pmdPlayerRR12.hqx>
This is the pmd file player for RunRev. powered by
makeSMF.

<http://homepage.mac.com/udi/stack/pmdKB11.hqx>
This is a software Piano-keyboard. powered by makeSMF.

<http://homepage.mac.com/udi/stack/rMusic11.hqx>
The stack which plays random music. powered by makeSMF

<http://homepage.mac.com/udi/stack/smf2Pmd.hqx>
It is a tool to convert a SMF( Standard Midi File ) 
into a pmd( The data which UxPlayMIDI/makeSMF use ) 
file. This is the 68K application that made with
RunRev

Have a nice day,

al


on Fri, 25 Nov 2005 
Thomas McGrath III wrote:
 
> Frank,
> You might try the Shakobox by Hyperactive Software:
> http:// 
> www.hyperactivesw.com/Resources.html

> On Nov 25, 2005, at 12:27 AM, Frank R wrote:
> 
> > Thanks everyone for the welcome and initial
> responses.
> >
> > Now, to Really get me off to an enthusiastic
> > start with RunRev,  
> > can Someone
> > send me that MIDI Builder demo stack?  :)      
> > Somebody here has  
> > to have it.
> >
> > I'd really appreciate it.
> >
> >   Thanks.
> >
> >   Frank

Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Fri Nov 25 15:53:47 2005
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 14:53:47 -0600
Subject: [ANN] Constellation to be "unbundled" from Gadget Suite on Monday
	11-28-05
In-Reply-To: <4387743E.5060403@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
References: <4387743E.5060403@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <2C5B4EC2-C493-4B6A-8444-094D7965608B@daniels-mara.com>

Friends and Colleagues,

As some of you are aware, our company, Daniels & Mara (www.daniels- 
mara.com/products) makes a suite of tools for Revolution developers.  
This suite includes Constellation (a property and script editor) and  
four other tools: Inspection Gadget, Object Gadget, Transcript Gadget  
and Time Gadget.

These tools, especially Constellation with its tabbed interface for  
browsing scripts and properties together, have been very popular. We  
have been offering all of these products together as a "suite" for a  
bundled price of $60.

Starting this Monday, November 28, we will "unbundle" Constellation  
from the Gadget Suite (as it's called). At that time, Constellation  
will cost $50 and the rest of the tools (without Constellation) will  
be sold as a suite for a bundled price of $25.

If you want to take advantage of our lower pricing on the suite that  
includes Constellation, I would encourage you to get over to our site  
and make your purchases before Monday, November 28.

Best,

Jerry

http://www.daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm
Scripts and properties in a tabbed editor!



From frny4x at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 25 15:57:13 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 12:57:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PDF documentation
In-Reply-To: <9CD93D9A-B899-4104-875C-7F7EE9C899C8@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <20051125205713.80935.qmail@web32803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dan - thanks for the response.  I have seen your book, and I wish I could
  order it.  I'm trying to evaluate this thing with no funds, and while it seems
  silly to say, I can't afford even a $30 download these days.

Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:
  Frank....

The official docs are available in printed form via the RunRev site, 
I think, but they take a very long time to get to the U.S. (at least 
last I checked).

If you want to dive into Rev this weekend in PDF form, you can buy my 
"Software at the Speed of Thought" book, aimed primarily at beginners 
and early intermediate users. It's available at:

http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html along with two smaller 
eBooks on more advanced topics.


On Nov 25, 2005, at 12:29 PM, Frank R wrote:

> Are the manuals available anywhere in PDF form, where I can 
> download/print,
> and do some more serious couch reading?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
  



From frny4x at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 25 16:07:42 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 13:07:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <20051125205154.91922.qmail@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20051125210742.33587.qmail@web32809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Before I start my complaint about pricing, let me at least say that I applaud the company for having a $99 price point for Dreamcard.  It at least opens the doors for more people to explore this intriguing tool.
   
  On the other hand, the pricing needs to go even further.  In my 20 years in the world of software, I can't tell you how many companies I have observed shoot themselves in the foot by having a great product but pricing it out of reach for the masses.  The pricing that has Built companies has been - price it low to draw people in, get the revenue later with advanced features and with deployment licensing costs.  
   
  Turbo Pascal was sold in huge quantities because it was a $49 product that many could afford.  The same was true with the Initial pricing of many MS products.
   
  This company should offer DreamCard free - but, for free, Without the ability to deploy an app.  The apps could only be run inside the IDE.  This would give more people more than 30 days to race through the product, and it would defer collecting revenue until someone actually baked something of Value - that could be sold.  At that point, the programmer has an easy time paying the bucks for a development license.
   
  I'm going to finish evaluating this, and I'm going to start my project, but I won't be done in 30 days, and my journey will probably end there.  Maybe I'm in the minority, but I can't afford to lay out for tools anymore until I Know I'm going to get across the finish line with something of value to sell.
   
  This product needs to shoot for Volume.  That means - further aggressive pricing.
   
  My four cents.
   
  Frank


From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Fri Nov 25 16:14:13 2005
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 15:14:13 -0600
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <20051125210742.33587.qmail@web32809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051125210742.33587.qmail@web32809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <55636588-73BE-403B-9B70-3CB81C46ECF4@daniels-mara.com>

Adjusted for inflation and the price of gas,  Turbo Pascal would sell  
for $99 today.

You're right on the money.

Best,

Jerry

On Nov 25, 2005, at 3:07 PM, Frank R wrote:

> Turbo Pascal was sold in huge quantities because it was a $49  
> product that many could afford.



From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Nov 25 16:17:40 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 16:17:40 -0500
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <20051125210742.33587.qmail@web32809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051125210742.33587.qmail@web32809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <81F45EE7-CCD8-44F0-A2ED-E72E08181C42@adelphia.net>

Frank,

I won't argue your points. I'm sure others will.

I will say that rev is the best solution I've seen and worked with. I  
pay for great software like Photoshop, Illustrator, and Revolution  
and they have MADE ME MONEY, so I don't mind paying for them.

I'm sure after 30 days you could download a new trial version, and  
I'm sure if you contacted RunRev about your situation they can help you.

Tom

On Nov 25, 2005, at 4:07 PM, Frank R wrote:

>
>   This company should offer DreamCard free - but, for free, Without  
> the ability to deploy an app.  The apps could only be run inside  
> the IDE.  This would give more people more than 30 days to race  
> through the product, and it would defer collecting revenue until  
> someone actually baked something of Value - that could be sold.  At  
> that point, the programmer has an easy time paying the bucks for a  
> development license.
>
>   I'm going to finish evaluating this, and I'm going to start my  
> project, but I won't be done in 30 days, and my journey will  
> probably end there.  Maybe I'm in the minority, but I can't afford  
> to lay out for tools anymore until I Know I'm going to get across  
> the finish line with something of value to sell.



From gilbert at isphlg.rimed.cu  Fri Nov 25 17:48:59 2005
From: gilbert at isphlg.rimed.cu (Gilberto Cuba)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 17:48:59 -0500
Subject: Messages in setprop...
Message-ID: <003c01c5f212$8e1ee650$1c037b98@p42600>


Hi,

I'm working in a "setprop" of the "property set", that is to say, group of property, and detect that I modified or set a value of a property of the same group or "property set", the message dont triggered. How I can do this message occur?

Example: 

setprop MyPropSet[propName] newValue

switch propName
case "Prop1"
  -- (1)
  set the MyPropSet["Prop3"] of me to value   
  break
case "Prop2"
  ...
  -- do something...
  ...
  break
case "Prop3"
  ...
  ...do something...  (2)
  ...
  break
end switch

end setprop

When i set a value to a property "Prop1", it come in to (1), but when the next line is executing, it dont pass for (2).
I hope you might understand.

Best regards,

Gilberto Cuba

PD: I request my excuses for my english. I'm speaking spanish.  :DDD

From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de  Fri Nov 25 16:54:27 2005
From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 22:54:27 +0100
Subject: Near completion of Color Pattern Toolkit: IDE, engine, and font
 problems (part two)
Message-ID: <43878813.5040808@hrz.uni-kassel.de>

Xavier,

I just followed your suggestion to try to use graphics instead of fields 
- something I had also experimented with some time ago.

I substituted the 2700 fields of test stack "ScanTest2700" with graphics 
(and again want to mention that my present toolkit stack contains only 
*one* field now containing color information)

The result for three passes with the scan button:

Stack with graphics 2371, 7930, and 13565 milliseconds.
Stack with fields 2667, 7611, 13109 milliseconds.

I would say there are no statistically significant differences between 
the two stacks (we would have to continue to get a possible significance 
on the basis of more data).

Cheers,

Wilhelm
<http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>




From higginsta at mac.com  Fri Nov 25 17:13:48 2005
From: higginsta at mac.com (Todd Higgins)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 17:13:48 -0500
Subject: Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years
Message-ID: <57E59C23-E911-4B58-BF8E-1429E5AEC266@mac.com>

During this turkey inspired holiday I have decided to reinvest myself  
and my money in Revolution.  I updated to 2.61 of the IDE and picked  
up  some Valentina licenses to boot! (Though I'm a little bummed that  
it's not Valentina 2.0 - the documentation and examples are much  
easier to grok)

As I was surfing the web for programming inspiration I found an  
article that has helped me put my learning curve in perspective, and  
I thought I would share it with the list.

http://www.norvig.com/21-days.html

With no formal programming experience and no Hypercard background its  
been slow going for me. As a technologist I am very comfortable using  
computers, I can make servers bend to my will for most functions, but  
when it comes to creating something from nothing I am stifled.  I  
feel like I cannot get off the ground floor with anything -  
Applescript, PERL, bash, Revolution,  and I think the reason is  
because I'm rushing it.

Real expertise takes time, even if your chosen programming  
environment promises to save 90% of it : )

Thoughts?

Todd

--
Todd Higgins
higginsta at mac.com





From revolution at derbrill.de  Fri Nov 25 17:23:25 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:23:25 +0100
Subject: PDF documentation
In-Reply-To: <20051125180002.F2A3B82537B@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <185F4937-5E02-11DA-A46B-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Hi Frank,

maybe this is of interest for you, not a PDF, but a free eBook (with 
printable Text), mostly geared at basics and multimedia:

http://www.derbrill.de/tutorials_e.html

All the best,

Malte

-- 
ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes
http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine
http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum 



From brucegregory at earthlink.net  Fri Nov 25 17:48:59 2005
From: brucegregory at earthlink.net (Greg Smith)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 15:48:59 -0700
Subject: Learn Programming in Ten Years
Message-ID: <438794DB.8040904@earthlink.net>

Ain't that the truth.  I think those of us, (me), who hope to find 
easier solutions to the problems of computing and creating with a 
computer are really just victims of the Apple marketing department.

Greg Smith



From sunshine at public.kherson.ua  Fri Nov 25 17:53:15 2005
From: sunshine at public.kherson.ua (Ruslan Zasukhin)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 00:53:15 +0200
Subject: Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years
In-Reply-To: <57E59C23-E911-4B58-BF8E-1429E5AEC266@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BFAD627B.43B32%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>

On 11/26/05 12:13 AM, "Todd Higgins" <higginsta at mac.com> wrote:

> During this turkey inspired holiday I have decided to reinvest myself
> and my money in Revolution.  I updated to 2.61 of the IDE and picked
> up  some Valentina licenses to boot! (Though I'm a little bummed that
> it's not Valentina 2.0 - the documentation and examples are much
> easier to grok)

You can upgrade to 2.0 now with discount!
 
> As I was surfing the web for programming inspiration I found an
> article that has helped me put my learning curve in perspective, and
> I thought I would share it with the list.
> 
> http://www.norvig.com/21-days.html

Really good article! :-)
 
> With no formal programming experience and no Hypercard background its
> been slow going for me. As a technologist I am very comfortable using
> computers, I can make servers bend to my will for most functions, but
> when it comes to creating something from nothing I am stifled.  I
> feel like I cannot get off the ground floor with anything -
> Applescript, PERL, bash, Revolution,  and I think the reason is
> because I'm rushing it.
> 
> Real expertise takes time, even if your chosen programming
> environment promises to save 90% of it : )
> 
> Thoughts?

-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]




From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 25 17:59:13 2005
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 14:59:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Graphic Design Tools
In-Reply-To: <20051125180002.C741C825366@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20051125225914.4917.qmail@web36507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

on Fri, 25 Nov 2005
Frank R wrote:

> Anyone know what tool they use for graphic design,
> and if not, anyone have any good suggestions for
> inexpensive, easy graphic design tools?

Look for Xara and RealDraw Pro:
<http://www.xara.com/> $79.00
<http://www.mediachance.com/realdraw/> $60.00

Have a nice day.

al



Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
__________________________________ 
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Nov 25 17:59:47 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 14:59:47 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <20051125210742.33587.qmail@web32809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051125210742.33587.qmail@web32809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43879763.2070402@fourthworld.com>

Frank R wrote:
 > Before I start my complaint about pricing, let me at least say
 > that I applaud the company for having a $99 price point for
 > Dreamcard.  It at least opens the doors for more people to
 > explore this intriguing tool.
 >
 > On the other hand, the pricing needs to go even further.

*Could* go further, perhaps.  *Needs* too?  I'm not convinced.

How many commercial applications have you shipped, and how many of those 
do you currently support and maintain?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Nov 25 18:03:56 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 15:03:56 -0800
Subject: Web Plugin for metacard player ( like flash plugin for browsers)
In-Reply-To: <20051125201634.27378.qmail@web32807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051125201634.27378.qmail@web32807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4387985C.8060709@fourthworld.com>

Frank R wrote:
>>There is not (at least yet) a Web browser plugin for Revolution or  
>>MetaCard.
>    
>   It's really a shame there isn't.     That would open up a whole new world
>   of possibilities for this product - and for expanding the user base.

<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2004-February/031271.html>

<http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/NetApps.html>


-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From mark at maseurope.net  Fri Nov 25 18:24:53 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:24:53 +0000
Subject: Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years
In-Reply-To: <57E59C23-E911-4B58-BF8E-1429E5AEC266@mac.com>
References: <57E59C23-E911-4B58-BF8E-1429E5AEC266@mac.com>
Message-ID: <17494AB3-B80D-4AC2-8399-D51DC01CC251@maseurope.net>

Maybe one of the most interesting things about Rev/MC is the way that  
it  can be seen as both a useful application in its own right , and a  
development environment.

I jumped on Hypercard as soon as I got my first Mac (1990, a Mac  
Classic), and a great deal of what I did with it (and still do with  
Rev) was what other people might have done with spreadsheets and  
single-user databases etc.

For instance, I've always rolled my own accounts stacks that work the  
way that I think of my business (such as it is), no double-entry  
stuff which I still don't understand, just money in, money out, print  
an invoice, keep track of what I spend etc. and at any time I can get  
a picture of where I stand in a form that makes sense to me. (As a  
self-employed musician, I pay an accountant to do the real accounts  
and tax returns etc).

It seems to me that anyone who can get reasonably complicated  
spreadsheets together is capable of using Rev to do useful work.

Along the way, I've developed a great enthusiasm for computer  
programming, and have learnt quite a lot of stuff about a wide  
variety of subjects through finding little programming projects.  
Currently investigating gambling strategies (as a self-employed  
musician, it'd be nice to find something steady <g>)

But I certainly can't deny  that it's taken me 10+ years to get to  
the point where I'm making relatively complicated apps that actually  
work. And even then, they're not close to being shippable, sellable  
commercial software, but then that's never been my aim.

Mark





On 25 Nov 2005, at 22:13, Todd Higgins wrote:

> During this turkey inspired holiday I have decided to reinvest  
> myself and my money in Revolution.  I updated to 2.61 of the IDE  
> and picked up  some Valentina licenses to boot! (Though I'm a  
> little bummed that it's not Valentina 2.0 - the documentation and  
> examples are much easier to grok)
>
> As I was surfing the web for programming inspiration I found an  
> article that has helped me put my learning curve in perspective,  
> and I thought I would share it with the list.
>
> http://www.norvig.com/21-days.html
>
> With no formal programming experience and no Hypercard background  
> its been slow going for me. As a technologist I am very comfortable  
> using computers, I can make servers bend to my will for most  
> functions, but when it comes to creating something from nothing I  
> am stifled.  I feel like I cannot get off the ground floor with  
> anything - Applescript, PERL, bash, Revolution,  and I think the  
> reason is because I'm rushing it.
>
> Real expertise takes time, even if your chosen programming  
> environment promises to save 90% of it : )
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Todd
>
> --
> Todd Higgins
> higginsta at mac.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From liamlambert at mac.com  Fri Nov 25 18:30:44 2005
From: liamlambert at mac.com (liamlambert)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:30:44 +0000
Subject: seems to meny If
Message-ID: <6D0A3722-CCC2-45D4-A64B-B4FF8C0494D0@mac.com>

Thank you everybody for your input It was all very useful me .
The letters in my code are sent from a matrix key pad connected to a  
weeder Digital i/o module
I use the key pad to select tracks from a play list and to line up  
the next sound cue ( for live Theatre).
It is really great to get all this feed back and some very elegant  
solutions .
Thanks to you all
liamlambert
liamlambert at mac.com





From frny4x at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 25 18:30:58 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 15:30:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Web Plugin for metacard player ( like flash plugin for browsers)
In-Reply-To: <4387985C.8060709@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20051125233058.96724.qmail@web32804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

> Browser plugins offer no substanial benefit not already addressed by using a
> standalone as a helper application.
   
  Technically speaking, maybe true.  Practically speaking, definitely not true.



Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
  Frank R wrote:
>>There is not (at least yet) a Web browser plugin for Revolution or 
>>MetaCard.
> 
> It's really a shame there isn't. That would open up a whole new world
> of possibilities for this product - and for expanding the user base.






-- 
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Media Corporation
___________________________________________________________
Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
  



From psahores at easynet.fr  Fri Nov 25 19:22:52 2005
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 01:22:52 +0100
Subject: Learn Programming in Ten Years
In-Reply-To: <438794DB.8040904@earthlink.net>
References: <438794DB.8040904@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <36929A26-533E-478F-BE9F-E91B68E1CE06@easynet.fr>

It's not my own feeling... Apple give us one of the best unix  
available today for less money than a professional grade Linux  
distribution. About getting the best development tools we need to  
design and code more great rock-solid softs in less time, we would  
have to spend in using other environments, including Java or Python,  
Rev is one of the very best candidate and this list is the right  
place to get very kindly help in going head with it :-)

Best Regards,

Le 25 nov. 05 ? 23:48, Greg Smith a ?crit :

> Ain't that the truth.  I think those of us, (me), who hope to find  
> easier solutions to the problems of computing and creating with a  
> computer are really just victims of the Apple marketing department.
>
> Greg Smith
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>

-- 
Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr
sc+ at +sahores-conseil.com

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

<http://www.sahores-conseil.com/>

WEB/VoD/ACID-DB services over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Nov 25 19:45:10 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 16:45:10 -0800
Subject: Web Plugin for metacard player ( like flash plugin for browsers)
In-Reply-To: <20051125233058.96724.qmail@web32804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051125233058.96724.qmail@web32804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4387B016.3050107@fourthworld.com>

Frank R wrote:
>>Browser plugins offer no substanial benefit not already addressed by using a
>>standalone as a helper application.
> 
>    
>   Technically speaking, maybe true.  Practically speaking, definitely not true.

Practically speaking, almost no one would have a Rev browser plugin 
pre-installed as they do with Flash.  So whether they download and 
install yet another plugin, or download and install a helper app, in 
neither case will they get the ubiquity which is the primary benefit of 
a browser-based app.

If you can find the subset of uses for which the need to install a 
runtime engine isn't a problem, then what significant difference does it 
make whether the app runs within the confines of a browser window or is 
free to make use of its own windows?

Flash won the plugin wars long ago.  If something absolutely must run 
within the confines of a browser window, Flash, Java, or AJAX are the 
best answers.

If the customer finds it acceptable to download and install a runtime 
engine, Rev makes a great contender as it is today.

Three useful examples:

An AOL-like Internet service bundled with Rev:
Development->Plugins->GoRevNet

A net app that downloads and plays interactice geospatial info:
<http://ddm.geo.umass.edu/>

Engineering courseware delivered in a custom net app:
<http://reactorlab.net/>


--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From vampire at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 25 20:01:56 2005
From: vampire at yahoo.com (vampire at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 21:01:56 -0400
Subject: Multiplatform Revolution
In-Reply-To: <1125945028.20051125104924@ahsoftware.net>
References: <768fa4fc0511250533we085f0rf4e8bc746c12fb84@mail.gmail.com>
	<768fa4fc0511250536u48108cfeyef39073956a6101e@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3E7417A-31E8-41AD-B12B-65AAACB0D277@adelphia.net>
	<A7CCFA50-D916-46C7-8D00-70D65D094979@yahoo.com>
	<a05210603bfacd675c69b@192.168.0.101>
	<a05210600bface8e9555f@192.168.0.101>
	<a05210600bface8e9555f@192\.168\.0\.101>
	<1125945028.20051125104924@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <768fa4fc0511251701u616f2434wca85d7bfa3d1692d@mail.gmail.com>

Not to beat this topic to death but....

For my purposes of wanting to develop with rev on win+mac I would buy
dreamcard for one platform and studio for another. I could then
develop on both but only compile something on one. Is dreamcard the
same as studio but without the ability to produce standalone?

Thanks

Steve


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Nov 25 20:27:31 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 20:27:31 -0500
Subject: Multiplatform Revolution
In-Reply-To: <768fa4fc0511251701u616f2434wca85d7bfa3d1692d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <768fa4fc0511250533we085f0rf4e8bc746c12fb84@mail.gmail.com>
	<768fa4fc0511250536u48108cfeyef39073956a6101e@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3E7417A-31E8-41AD-B12B-65AAACB0D277@adelphia.net>
	<A7CCFA50-D916-46C7-8D00-70D65D094979@yahoo.com>
	<a05210603bfacd675c69b@192.168.0.101>
	<a05210600bface8e9555f@192.168.0.101>
	<a05210600bface8e9555f@192\.168\.0\.101>
	<1125945028.20051125104924@ahsoftware.net>
	<768fa4fc0511251701u616f2434wca85d7bfa3d1692d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B5981F22-9495-4B56-A051-2DBD22FC7C93@adelphia.net>

Steve,

Don't take this the wrong way, but you really should contact RunRev  
directly. They can help you decide on the best approach for what you  
want to do. I did and they were very helpful when I was trying to  
decide. Just off the top of my head this idea does not sound like the  
best idea. I may be wrong but please contact the RunRev team and I  
know they will help you.

Tom

On Nov 25, 2005, at 8:01 PM, vampire at yahoo.com wrote:

> Not to beat this topic to death but....
>
> For my purposes of wanting to develop with rev on win+mac I would buy
> dreamcard for one platform and studio for another. I could then
> develop on both but only compile something on one. Is dreamcard the
> same as studio but without the ability to produce standalone?
>
> Thanks
>
> Steve
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From davidocoker at gmail.com  Fri Nov 25 21:10:46 2005
From: davidocoker at gmail.com (David Coker)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 20:10:46 -0600
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <20051125210742.33587.qmail@web32809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051125205154.91922.qmail@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20051125210742.33587.qmail@web32809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dcf79b820511251810n30b0fcadk70add76746e22a5b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Frank,
It's been a long time since I posted to the list, but I thought I'd add my
perspective in regards to pricing.

You wrote:
>The pricing that has Built companies has been - price it low to draw people
in,
>get the revenue later with advanced features and with deployment licensing
costs.

Revolution already *is* that later version with the advanced features. ;)
I think most of the users consider Revolution to be Enterprise quality and
is up to virtually any task that you can throw in it's direction. I know I
do.

Quick research:

DreamCard:
United States Dollars = 99.00 USD
United Kingdom Pounds = 57.71 GBP

Revolution:
United States Dollars = 299.00 USD
United Kingdom Pounds = 174.29 GBP

Revolution's closest ancestor in the family tree (Meta-Card) sold for around
$995.00 USD, so with the many additions and improvements, the price point
today is a real bargain. With the current feature set and ability to deploy
on three major platforms considered, it's a great bargain!

Since Runtime Revolution (the company) is based in the United Kingdom, I'd
say that from their perspective, it's already priced pretty low.

The principle owners, employees and investors all have living expenses based
on the British Pound rather than the dollar. Forgetting any potential
R.O.Ifor a second, just the cost of paying salaries and doing business
in general
must be put into the proper perspective, price wise.

Last perspective: I work for a company here in the U.S. who's primary
marketing strategy seems to be lower pricing, lower pricing and lower
pricing. (No, the name doesn't sound anything like Walm..t)

While a certain volume is always an important factor for most companies,
having everyone working twice as hard just to maintain profit levels for the
previous 6 months cannot last forever.

I think we all would like to see Revolution prosper into the future. :)

Sorry if I've sounded the least bit argumentative, because that's certainly
not my intent... Just a little food for thought.

-Dave-


From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Nov 25 21:33:28 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 18:33:28 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <20051125210742.33587.qmail@web32809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051125210742.33587.qmail@web32809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5F2C8FE5-D5B5-4D00-B567-4BB231157244@danshafer.com>

Frank.........

Thanks for sharing your perspective. I don't *entirely* agree but I  
don't think you're off the deep end, either.

You said, "I'm going to finish evaluating this, and I'm going to  
start my project, but I won't be done in 30 days, and my journey will  
probably end there.  Maybe I'm in the minority, but I can't afford to  
lay out for tools anymore until I Know I'm going to get across the  
finish line with something of value to sell."

I noticed the other day that one or Revolution's very few  
competitors, RealBasic, has an interesting policy that I hadn't been  
aware of before. When your evaluation license expires, they have an  
option on the notification dialog to request an extension of time to  
continue the evaluation. For kicks, I hit that option and within a  
short time I got a new eval license in email. That seems sensible to  
me. Rev *is* a big product and although I know that once you know how  
productive you can be its price seems if anything too low, the fact  
is that if you don't know that for sure, forking over a few hundred  
bucks to confirm your suspicions may be asking too much of some folks.

Obviously the company can track such requests and decide at some  
point that you've had long enough to evaluate the product and not  
grant any extensions. That would keep tire-kickers from using the  
product and never buying it.

OTOH, Frank, if you get to 30 days and you've actually spent serious  
time with Revolution you will have built at least a few things,  
perhaps even part of your planned first application, and then to  
decide that you can't afford to pay for a tool you're not sure you  
can use to produce something of value to sell may be a very short- 
sighted decision indeed. I hope you don't make that one.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From frny4x at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 25 22:21:37 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 19:21:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <5F2C8FE5-D5B5-4D00-B567-4BB231157244@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <20051126032137.82186.qmail@web32801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks, Dan, and others for the dialog on this.
   
  I just have seen so many times in my life products that had So much potential for a larger base, only for it never to happen because of the steep entry costs.
   
  The $99 entry point for Dreamcard is certainly good - and better than the entry point for many tools out there.
   
  OTOH, I would always argue to Any tool maker that - the revenue generated by tire kickers is minimal.  Loss of that revenue would not significantly change the financial equation for any tool maker.  But, the door opens to Much Greater revenue when you have scenarios like - 0$ to use the IDE idefinitely, and $X when you deploy your applications.   You catch more long term fish that way.
   
  Part of this is also personal for me.  I lived times when I could throw money at tools until one stuck to the wall, and now I live during times when that is impossible.
   
  Anyway, glad to have found the tool - and this list.  Looks like a good crowd and very helpful dialog.
   
  Frank

Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:
  Frank.........

Thanks for sharing your perspective. I don't *entirely* agree but I 
don't think you're off the deep end, either.

You said, "I'm going to finish evaluating this, and I'm going to 
start my project, but I won't be done in 30 days, and my journey will 
probably end there. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I can't afford to 
lay out for tools anymore until I Know I'm going to get across the 
finish line with something of value to sell."

I noticed the other day that one or Revolution's very few 
competitors, RealBasic, has an interesting policy that I hadn't been 
aware of before. When your evaluation license expires, they have an 
option on the notification dialog to request an extension of time to 
continue the evaluation. For kicks, I hit that option and within a 
short time I got a new eval license in email. That seems sensible to 
me. Rev *is* a big product and although I know that once you know how 
productive you can be its price seems if anything too low, the fact 
is that if you don't know that for sure, forking over a few hundred 
bucks to confirm your suspicions may be asking too much of some folks.

Obviously the company can track such requests and decide at some 
point that you've had long enough to evaluate the product and not 
grant any extensions. That would keep tire-kickers from using the 
product and never buying it.

OTOH, Frank, if you get to 30 days and you've actually spent serious 
time with Revolution you will have built at least a few things, 
perhaps even part of your planned first application, and then to 
decide that you can't afford to pay for a tool you're not sure you 
can use to produce something of value to sell may be a very short- 
sighted decision indeed. I hope you don't make that one.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


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From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Fri Nov 25 22:31:44 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 22:31:44 -0500
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <20051126032137.82186.qmail@web32801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051126032137.82186.qmail@web32801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4ABCEA73-1157-46B0-AB89-7E7D29BFD702@adelphia.net>

WHOOO!!!  I would definitely not go for this. The hassles alone  
trying to license for deployment only to find out the product I try  
to sell has no chance in a big market or any market. That is too  
much. I would not buy a tool like that. I much prefer a couple  
hundred dollars to create useful utilities for myself and then have  
the chance to try and deploy a couple of products for sale with out  
the risk. I would gladly pay double what Rev is asking for the  
opportunity to have a free license to deploy what and where and how I  
want to with no more money, ever, going to them after the initial  
purchase. I think this would reduce long term revenues and invite  
nothing but free tire kickers, heck it would turn me off from trying  
to take big risks building products I thought might be good but  
wasn't sure would be good.

I'm sorry but I very much disagree with this mentality completely.

Tom

On Nov 25, 2005, at 10:21 PM, Frank R wrote:

> But, the door opens to Much Greater revenue when you have scenarios  
> like - 0$ to use the IDE idefinitely, and $X when you deploy your  
> applications.   You catch more long term fish that way.



From shaosean at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 25 22:34:26 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 22:34:26 -0500
Subject: [UPD] bitwise "shift"s
In-Reply-To: <20051125214722.71CCE825531@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-F3738635D63CC416E03FC8EC3560@phx.gbl>

>Thanks again for these functions, and for all the time it must have taken 
>to figure out what you can do and what you can't.

Not a problem, but I'm learning quickly that I can barely do bit math ;-)  
Up until I started working on SHA-1 I never used bit math, but here's to 
learning new things =)


>Alejandro got me interested in the md4digest function, so I tried it using 
>your functions, and I'm afraid there is still one problem.

As much as I'd love to say that they're perfect, they're not.. If there's 
anyone out there who actually knows about these things and wants to help us 
out, please speak up =)


>The problem is that 6448964192 is a positive number which has the "sign" 
>bit set - i.e. it's larger than a single 32-bit positive integer can hold, 
>but Rev 2.6.1 uses (I guess??) 64-bit ints if needed (??)

I did more updating of the functions last night, but I didn't feel like 
spamming the list with _another_ change so I've decided to work out more of 
the functions before posting again.. The functions should check if the data 
is signed or not and do the appropriate math..  I'll run your numbers 
through and see if I can spot anything that needs to be adjusted..
I'm only on 2.0.3 so I can't even do full 32-bit math let alone 64-bit  =/

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now! 
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri Nov 25 23:12:09 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 20:12:09 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <dcf79b820511251810n30b0fcadk70add76746e22a5b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20051125205154.91922.qmail@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<20051125210742.33587.qmail@web32809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<dcf79b820511251810n30b0fcadk70add76746e22a5b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4387E099.7070906@fourthworld.com>

David Coker wrote:
> Quick research:
> 
> DreamCard:
> United States Dollars = $99
> 
> Revolution:
> United States Dollars = $299

Some comparative data:

RealBASIC Standard      $99

RealBASIC Pro          $399

Macromedia Flash:      $699

Macromedia Director: $1,199 (per platform)

Toolbook Instructor: $2,495 (only one platform available)


Two factors to consider:

1. the value of price-positioning

2. the lower the price, the more support costs will rise 
disproportionate to sales by attracting users with less professional 
experience developing applications.


If one feels strongly about the potential for lower price points there's 
nothing stopping them from demonstrating that point with their own 
product and report back here with the hard data on how the price drop 
affected total ROI.

Personally, I think Rev is priced too low.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Nov 25 23:27:04 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 20:27:04 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <4387E099.7070906@fourthworld.com>
References: <20051125205154.91922.qmail@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<20051125210742.33587.qmail@web32809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<dcf79b820511251810n30b0fcadk70add76746e22a5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4387E099.7070906@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <64E9CC79-BBEF-4708-8A6D-0813B707EB02@danshafer.com>

Good points, Richard.
On Nov 25, 2005, at 8:12 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Personally, I think Rev is priced too low.

I can't say I disagree.

Back in the 80's -- I know, that's SO last century! -- there were two  
Smalltalks on the market. Digitalk sold for something like $99.  
ParcPlace Systems Smalltalk-80 sold for something like $1,000. While  
there were lots of differences between them, it was entirely possible  
to build most kinds of apps with the lower-priced product. I asked  
PPS founder Adele Goldberg one day how come she didn't lower her  
prices to compete for the broader market with Digitalk. I'll never  
forget her answer. "People who pay $99 for a development tool expect  
to learn it in a few hours, master it in a few days and hound tech  
support unmercifully at no cost. People who pay $1,000 for a  
development tool take it and their work seriously, understand that it  
requires a significant effort to learn and master, and are not only  
willing to pay for support, they are eager to do so because they  
don't want the company that makes their favorite tool to go out of  
business." She allowed as how she'd rather have far fewer customers  
who were professional not only in their work but in their attitude  
than 1 million hobbyists.

In some ways, this discussion is just a rehash of the old battle over  
who the market for Revolution is or ought to be: professional coders  
or hobbyists. I know RunRev disagrees with me -- and so do many of  
you on this list -- but I maintain you cannot adequately serve both  
markets.






~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Fri Nov 25 23:29:35 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 20:29:35 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <20051126032137.82186.qmail@web32801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051126032137.82186.qmail@web32801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <655F9B67-4BB3-4373-A4B7-CB66197331C6@danshafer.com>

Frank....

Not one major development tool has ever succeeded charging for  
runtime delivery. Not one. You buy a C++ compiler, you don't pay the  
compiler maker for each copy of your app. Companies that have tried  
runtime royalty deals over the years -- and there have been many,  
with a staggering array of ideas for the best way to structure the  
fees -- have abandoned their plan or gone out of business or both.

And with so many free (open source and otherwise) compilers and IDEs  
out there, it would be suicide for anyone to try to charge per-copy  
distribution fees in today's market.


On Nov 25, 2005, at 7:21 PM, Frank R wrote:

> But, the door opens to Much Greater revenue when you have scenarios  
> like - 0$ to use the IDE idefinitely, and $X when you deploy your  
> applications.   You catch more long term fish that way.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Nov 26 00:10:25 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:10:25 -0600
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <64E9CC79-BBEF-4708-8A6D-0813B707EB02@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <BFAD4A61.30711%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/25/05 10:27 PM, "Dan Shafer" <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:

> "People who pay $99 for a development tool expect
> to learn it in a few hours, master it in a few days and hound tech
> support unmercifully at no cost. People who pay $1,000 for a
> development tool take it and their work seriously, understand that it
> requires a significant effort to learn and master, and are not only
> willing to pay for support, they are eager to do so because they
> don't want the company that makes their favorite tool to go out of
> business."

This was the same philosophy espoused by Scott Raney, when he was selling
MetaCard for $999 and nothing else... of course, that was until RunRev
picked it up...

:-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From davidocoker at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 00:33:30 2005
From: davidocoker at gmail.com (David Coker)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:33:30 -0600
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <655F9B67-4BB3-4373-A4B7-CB66197331C6@danshafer.com>
References: <20051126032137.82186.qmail@web32801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<655F9B67-4BB3-4373-A4B7-CB66197331C6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <dcf79b820511252133j7d9ad8d6k54c7f94872f06a74@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/25/05, Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:>
>And with so many free (open source and otherwise) compilers and IDEs
>out there, it would be suicide for anyone to try to charge per-copy
>distribution fees in today's market.

Total agreement here.
I've got a whole "tool chest" full of other development tools at my disposal
and even though I feel that Rev beats out the whole bunch, I would have
never even considered it with that type of licensing scheme.

Although I'm certainly not a professional developer (yet), I would
definitely fall into the "serious hobbiest" category, using Rev mostly for
work related projects. I currently have the Studio version for Windows and a
DreamCard license for Linux, with plans of buying the 2.6 version for my new
Mac-Mini before year end (or shortly thereafter).

I see it as a really good investment for the future.

-Dave-


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 02:28:51 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:28:51 +1000
Subject: Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years
In-Reply-To: <57E59C23-E911-4B58-BF8E-1429E5AEC266@mac.com>
References: <57E59C23-E911-4B58-BF8E-1429E5AEC266@mac.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511252328y6770109sea1e61b12c31548@mail.gmail.com>

> With no formal programming experience and no Hypercard background its
> been slow going for me. As a technologist I am very comfortable using
> computers, I can make servers bend to my will for most functions, but
> when it comes to creating something from nothing I am stifled.  I
> feel like I cannot get off the ground floor with anything -
> Applescript, PERL, bash, Revolution,  and I think the reason is
> because I'm rushing it.
>

My advice would be to find a SIMPLE project that you can see some
value in but that is not too demanding. Write it and then start to
improve it.

Some people like to work by laying out the interface completely before
starting any scripting. I tend to work by adding a few controls,
scripting them and then adding more. It just depends which makes you
feel more comfortable.

For example, a lot of people start with a simple address book. Just
write a stack with one entry per card that stores names and addresses.
Then add a search routine. Next add reporting, so you can print a list
of phone numbers. Then perhaps you want to be able to click a button
and email a person in your list. If your database is getting big, you
may want to explore different data storage mechanisms, perhaps even
going to an external database like Valentina or MySQL. Now work out
how to make it into a standalone.

If you work your way through this progression, I am sure you will have
a much better understanding of Rev's and your capabilities. Then you
might want to go on to something more complex e.g. heavy database
management, or some utility to integrate with your servers.

Don't start off trying to integrate a multi-user external database
with TCP sockets and C++ externals. All those things can be done, but
they are not easy. Your need to get to know how Rev works normally:
stacks cards, button, fields - basic stuff - before you start to work
with the more esoteric parts of the system.

As a starting point, I highly recommend that you have a look at the
Scripting conference stacks. They start with very basic stuff and
build on that. And remember, there are a lot of very experienced
people on this list, so no matter what problems you encounter, ask and
someone will be sure to help.

HTH,
Sarah


From darkshadow1 at metrocast.net  Sat Nov 26 03:04:24 2005
From: darkshadow1 at metrocast.net (Preston Shea)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 03:04:24 -0500
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
Message-ID: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>

The efficiency of the PC (oops! er, Mac) is practically without precedent since the days of the first chipped-flint hand axe, so it is hard to get a handle on what something like Revolution is "worth." It feels to me that it is worth at least as much as the modest computer on which I run it. Together, the package can be had for under a grand and - given talent and luck - can be used to support a family. In the old days, a milk cow was the comparable capital investment, today perhaps a studio-quality musical instrument. I can't afford the MacroMedia packages, but I think they are more than "worth it" for someone like my son-in-law, who makes a very good living with them. Revolution is the Japanese motorcycle of development tools. I look out my window at the guys in pickup trucks trying to make a living plowing snow and pounding nails. A thousand bucks to set up your own contracting business? You gotta be kidding!

From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 05:03:12 2005
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 18:03:12 +0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
Message-ID: <f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>

>From my reading of what Frank wrote it wasn't a case of charging on a
delivery basis but allowing a cheaper entry to DreamCard, one that didn't
allow delivery. ie for $20 you can have DreamCard but whatever you create
can only run in your copy of DreamCard, if you want to deploy to other
DreamCard users you'll need the $99 version

This to me would be like the 'Extended' evaluation mentioned for RealBasic,
but without the hassle of applying for an extension, and no need to actually
monitoring such extendsions. Get a free 30 day trial, buy a $20 use for
personal use as long as you like, or start deploying to others for as little
as $99.

I am a hobbiest and from my perspective I am thankful Runrev are trying to
cater to both ends of the market. I have been critical of Runrev's pricing
strategy before and have not agreed with it, but they seem to be doing a
good job because I have paid for license renewals over the years and have
never let my license lapse. I must stress though that I have done so in
small steps, and to me this is the key to Runrev extracting more and more
money out of me. I started out free, went to Express, then DreamCard, and
now Studio, which I have renewed. If Rev was ala ParcSystem,  Enterprise
option only, they'd have none of my money. They are currently extracting
more money out of me than a Digitalk strategy because I have been basically
evaluating Rev for the last 4 years, and when I've discovered a 'new'
feature that I'd like to take advantage of, but can't because it is in a
'higher' edition, I've eventually concluded that I need to forked over the
money.

As far as Digitalk vs ParcPlace Systems, my quick Google search came up
with:
*ParcPlace-Digitalk Merger into ObjectShare*
ParcPlace and Digitalk merge creating ObjectShare. Company implodes soon
after.

This appears to have occurred some time around 1984, although the time line
didn't seem to clear.

Now I have no clue, but maybe the problem was that Digitalk was too focused
on the cheap end of the market and ParcPlace on the professional end of the
market and the time came when each market was too small for either to
survive. By the time they realized they needed to broaden their horizons, ie
create a path for a hobbiest to get into smallTalk, then advance to an
intermeiate user, and then possibly on to a professional,  it was too late.

I'm wondering if Dan has a feel for how many people got into scripting
because of the FREE HyperCard that came with your Mac back in the late 80's.
Sure you eventually had to buy the later editions (2.1 was free if I can
remember, but after that if you wanted to create stacks you needed to buy
the Developer Tool - about U$120 I think). I still remember the MUG I
belonged too suddenly sending out floppies with public domain stacks. Then
it was multiple floppies. There were stacks everywhere.

I am still amazed at how many HyperCard refugees I see seeking a new life
here. I thought I was slow at coming to grips with the fact that HyperCard
is dead, but obviously some are still applying CPR;-) How many people got
hooked on the Free HyperCard, discovered that they could do something useful
with it, and then convinced themselves that they needed to buy the Developer
Pack so they could take advantage of the larger feature set of the later
editions. How many people made a living out of HyperCard based on their free
introduction (not a 30 day trial, but unlimited use free).

To conclude, if Runrev doesn't want to end up like Digitalk or ParcSystem
then they obviously need a continually growing user base. To do that you can
either convert them (professionals who are using a different IDE), create
them (hobbiest, intermediate, professional), or better yet, do both. I tend
towards the 'do both'. An expanded user base would have disadvantages, like
I'd never be able to read all the posts on this list, but on the other hand
I am occasionally concerned that this list appears to be a '3 ringed circus'
- depending on the problem I can usually guess who will provide an answer.


From Cubist at aol.com  Sat Nov 26 05:24:12 2005
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 05:24:12 EST
Subject: Graphic Design Tools
Message-ID: <12f.6a8a233f.30b991cc@aol.com>

on Fri, 25 Nov 2005
Frank R wrote:
> Anyone know what tool they use for graphic design...
   I would certainly *hope* people are aware of what tool(s) they use...

> ...and if not, anyone have any good suggestions for
> inexpensive, easy graphic design tools?
   Me, I use Photoshop. Wonderful toolbox. "Easy"? Yes -- you can start out 
just noodling around like it was a color version of MacPaint. And when you get 
beyond that point, Photoshop is right there with you, providing more tools and 
functions. "Inexpensive"? Perhaps. The full Photoshop application isn't, 
particularly (Adobe list price: USD $600), but Adobe also makes a "junior grade" 
version of the app -- Photoshop Elements -- which might well be able to do 
everything you need, and will only set you back USD $100 if you buy it from Adobe. 
In both cases, you can find significantly discounted copies (particularly if 
you don't need the latest-and-greatest version); a good place to start looking 
would be Google's Froogle shopping service.


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sat Nov 26 05:36:16 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 11:36:16 +0100
Subject: Near completion of Color Pattern Toolkit: IDE, engine,
	and font problems (part two)
In-Reply-To: <43878813.5040808@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
Message-ID: <20051126095410.94BDE8255D0@mail.runrev.com>

I thought it might be the issue. I stand corrected. 

Have you tried destroying the graphic stuff and recreating it?
Doing garbage collection of sorts? Delete local arrays?

cheers
Xavier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Wilhelm Sanke
> Sent: Friday, 25 November, 2005 22:54
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: RE: Near completion of Color Pattern Toolkit: IDE, 
> engine, and font problems (part two)
> 
> Xavier,
> 
> I just followed your suggestion to try to use graphics 
> instead of fields
> - something I had also experimented with some time ago.
> 
> I substituted the 2700 fields of test stack "ScanTest2700" 
> with graphics (and again want to mention that my present 
> toolkit stack contains only
> *one* field now containing color information)
> 
> The result for three passes with the scan button:
> 
> Stack with graphics 2371, 7930, and 13565 milliseconds.
> Stack with fields 2667, 7611, 13109 milliseconds.
> 
> I would say there are no statistically significant 
> differences between the two stacks (we would have to continue 
> to get a possible significance on the basis of more data).
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Wilhelm
> <http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From frny4x at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 26 05:35:55 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 02:35:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <655F9B67-4BB3-4373-A4B7-CB66197331C6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <20051126103555.99312.qmail@web32811.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I didn't mean charging per-copy distribution fees.  I completely agree those
  schemes are not well received.
   
  All I meant was:
  - 0 to develop inside the IDE, without the ability to deploy anything
  - X to deploy anything, where X is the same number whether you deploy
    1 or a million apps, to one customer or a million customers.

  This type of Learning Edition pricing is actually common - and well received.
  
Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:
  Frank....

Not one major development tool has ever succeeded charging for 
runtime delivery. Not one. You buy a C++ compiler, you don't pay the 
compiler maker for each copy of your app. Companies that have tried 
runtime royalty deals over the years -- and there have been many, 
with a staggering array of ideas for the best way to structure the 
fees -- have abandoned their plan or gone out of business or both.

And with so many free (open source and otherwise) compilers and IDEs 
out there, it would be suicide for anyone to try to charge per-copy 
distribution fees in today's market.


On Nov 25, 2005, at 7:21 PM, Frank R wrote:

> But, the door opens to Much Greater revenue when you have scenarios 
> like - 0$ to use the IDE idefinitely, and $X when you deploy your 
> applications. You catch more long term fish that way.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
  



From frny4x at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 26 05:41:31 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 02:41:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051126104131.75087.qmail@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Kay - well said - and, yes, you were the only one who Got the pricing I was
  referring to with:
  >  ie for $20 you can have DreamCard but whatever you create
> can only run in your copy of DreamCard, if you want to deploy to other
> DreamCard users you'll need the $99 version


   
  
Kay C Lan <lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com> wrote:
  >From my reading of what Frank wrote it wasn't a case of charging on a
delivery basis but allowing a cheaper entry to DreamCard, one that didn't
allow delivery. ie for $20 you can have DreamCard but whatever you create
can only run in your copy of DreamCard, if you want to deploy to other
DreamCard users you'll need the $99 version

This to me would be like the 'Extended' evaluation mentioned for RealBasic,
but without the hassle of applying for an extension, and no need to actually
monitoring such extendsions. Get a free 30 day trial, buy a $20 use for
personal use as long as you like, or start deploying to others for as little
as $99.

I am a hobbiest and from my perspective I am thankful Runrev are trying to
cater to both ends of the market. I have been critical of Runrev's pricing
strategy before and have not agreed with it, but they seem to be doing a
good job because I have paid for license renewals over the years and have
never let my license lapse. I must stress though that I have done so in
small steps, and to me this is the key to Runrev extracting more and more
money out of me. I started out free, went to Express, then DreamCard, and
now Studio, which I have renewed. If Rev was ala ParcSystem, Enterprise
option only, they'd have none of my money. They are currently extracting
more money out of me than a Digitalk strategy because I have been basically
evaluating Rev for the last 4 years, and when I've discovered a 'new'
feature that I'd like to take advantage of, but can't because it is in a
'higher' edition, I've eventually concluded that I need to forked over the
money.

As far as Digitalk vs ParcPlace Systems, my quick Google search came up
with:
*ParcPlace-Digitalk Merger into ObjectShare*
ParcPlace and Digitalk merge creating ObjectShare. Company implodes soon
after.

This appears to have occurred some time around 1984, although the time line
didn't seem to clear.

Now I have no clue, but maybe the problem was that Digitalk was too focused
on the cheap end of the market and ParcPlace on the professional end of the
market and the time came when each market was too small for either to
survive. By the time they realized they needed to broaden their horizons, ie
create a path for a hobbiest to get into smallTalk, then advance to an
intermeiate user, and then possibly on to a professional, it was too late.

I'm wondering if Dan has a feel for how many people got into scripting
because of the FREE HyperCard that came with your Mac back in the late 80's.
Sure you eventually had to buy the later editions (2.1 was free if I can
remember, but after that if you wanted to create stacks you needed to buy
the Developer Tool - about U$120 I think). I still remember the MUG I
belonged too suddenly sending out floppies with public domain stacks. Then
it was multiple floppies. There were stacks everywhere.

I am still amazed at how many HyperCard refugees I see seeking a new life
here. I thought I was slow at coming to grips with the fact that HyperCard
is dead, but obviously some are still applying CPR;-) How many people got
hooked on the Free HyperCard, discovered that they could do something useful
with it, and then convinced themselves that they needed to buy the Developer
Pack so they could take advantage of the larger feature set of the later
editions. How many people made a living out of HyperCard based on their free
introduction (not a 30 day trial, but unlimited use free).

To conclude, if Runrev doesn't want to end up like Digitalk or ParcSystem
then they obviously need a continually growing user base. To do that you can
either convert them (professionals who are using a different IDE), create
them (hobbiest, intermediate, professional), or better yet, do both. I tend
towards the 'do both'. An expanded user base would have disadvantages, like
I'd never be able to read all the posts on this list, but on the other hand
I am occasionally concerned that this list appears to be a '3 ringed circus'
- depending on the problem I can usually guess who will provide an answer.
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
  



From alex at tweedly.net  Sat Nov 26 05:54:15 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 10:54:15 +0000
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <dcf79b820511251810n30b0fcadk70add76746e22a5b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20051125205154.91922.qmail@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<20051125210742.33587.qmail@web32809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<dcf79b820511251810n30b0fcadk70add76746e22a5b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43883ED7.5010007@tweedly.net>

David Coker wrote:

> Revolution already *is* that later version with the advanced features. ;)
>
>I think most of the users consider Revolution to be Enterprise quality and
>is up to virtually any task that you can throw in it's direction. I know I
>do.
>
>Quick research:
>
>DreamCard:
>United States Dollars = 99.00 USD
>United Kingdom Pounds = 57.71 GBP
>
>Revolution:
>United States Dollars = 299.00 USD
>United Kingdom Pounds = 174.29 GBP
>  
>
That's not quite the actual pricing RunRev use. (I think you calculated 
the "UK  - GBP" prices by currency conversion - obvious but not correct 
:-).   The pricing is in fact:

Dreamcard
in the US: USD 99
rest of the world : GBP 69 or local equivalent

Rev Studio
in the US : USD 299
rest of the world : GBP 199 or local equivalent

Not a huge difference today (though it was a bigger difference a year 
ago when the exchange rate was over 1.9) - but worth explaining for the 
sake of those who've just bought at the higher, actual price.

For what it's worth (i.e. nothing) I think Rev's pricing is quite low - 
the only thing I think is too expensive is the per-platform add-on for 
Studio. I'd like to see it cost the same as a Dreamcard license. I can't 
see the support etc. costs for a second platform being high enough to 
require a cost of 2/3 of the initial cost. And a more aggressive price 
for additional platforms would make it unnecessary to consider using 
Studio on your main platform and Dreamcard on any secondary platform.


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date: 25/11/2005



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 06:31:48 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 21:31:48 +1000
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <a05210602bfacb3b7a757@192.168.0.101>
References: <43864AF8.8040602@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
	<64674.193.29.77.101.1132905741.squirrel@193.29.77.101>
	<a05210602bfacb3b7a757@192.168.0.101>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511260331l11e938f3x2eb84f817f7ba7a9@mail.gmail.com>

> > I have an application that is comprised on a number of stacks.
>
> The top level stack is built into a Standalone and it calls other
> stacks (.rev files) via "start using" and "go stack" commands.
>
> When in the IDE the folder stucture is like this:
>
> BaseFolder/StartUp.rev <-- just contains a splash screen
> BaseFolder/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev
> BaseFolder/Runtime/Stacks/StackB.rev
> BaseFolder/Runtime/Stacks/StackC.rev
>
> StartUp.rev figures out the correct path (by using the filename of
> this stack property) and does a goto StackA.rev.
> StackA in turn does a go to StackB.rev. This all works fine under the IDE.
>
> When runnig as a standalone the folder structure is like this:
>
> MacOSX/myApp.app  <-- bundle
> MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/MyApp (real applicaiton)
> MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev
> MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackB.rev
> MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackC.rev
>

I can't  see why your soution doesn't work, but here is what I do in
similar circumstances:

In the preOpenStack handler on card 1 of stack "StackA":

on preOpenStack
    put applicationFolder(the short name of this stack) into tFolder
    set the defaultfolder to tFolder
    start using stack "StackA"
end preOpenStack

function applicationFolder pStack
    if pStack is empty then put the short name of this stack into pStack
    put the effective filename of stack pStack into tFull
    put empty into tFolder
    set the itemdel to "/"
    repeat for each item i in tFull
        if i contains ".app" or i contains ".rev" then exit repeat
        put i & "/" after tFolder
    end repeat
    return tFolder
end applicationFolder

This function is stripped down to work only with OS X. If you want a
cross-platform equivalent, let me know.

HTH,
Sarah


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Sat Nov 26 06:48:00 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 11:48:00 +0000
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <1081665474.20051125093804@ahsoftware.net>
References: <43864AF8.8040602@hrz.uni-kassel.de>
	<64674.193.29.77.101.1132905741.squirrel@193.29.77.101>
	<a05210602bfacb3b7a757@[192.168.0.101]>
	<1081665474.20051125093804@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <a05210601bfadfbc7e9fb@[192.168.0.101]>

>David-
>
>Friday, November 25, 2005, 5:34:28 AM, you wrote:
>
>>  set itemDelimiter to :/"
>
>I'm surprised this works at all...
>
>--

As I said, It was just typeo, the real script compiles and works fine 
in the IDE.

All the Best
Dave


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Sat Nov 26 07:03:01 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 12:03:01 +0000
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <20051125210742.33587.qmail@web32809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051125210742.33587.qmail@web32809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a05210602bfadfeb499c9@[192.168.0.101]>

>Before I start my complaint about pricing, let me at least say that 
>I applaud the company for having a $99 price point for Dreamcard. 
>It at least opens the doors for more people to explore this 
>intriguing tool.
>
>   On the other hand, the pricing needs to go even further.  In my 20 
>years in the world of software, I can't tell you how many companies 
>I have observed shoot themselves in the foot by having a great 
>product but pricing it out of reach for the masses.  The pricing 
>that has Built companies has been - price it low to draw people in, 
>get the revenue later with advanced features and with deployment 
>licensing costs.

I would rather they charged twice as much but fixed all remaining IDE 
bugs and produce fixes quickly for other bugs when they come up.


>   
>   Turbo Pascal was sold in huge quantities because it was a $49 
>product that many could afford.  The same was true with the Initial 
>pricing of many MS products.
>   
>   This company should offer DreamCard free - but, for free, Without 
>the ability to deploy an app.  The apps could only be run inside the 
>IDE.  This would give more people more than 30 days to race through 
>the product, and it would defer collecting revenue until someone 
>actually baked something of Value - that could be sold.  At that 
>point, the programmer has an easy time paying the bucks for a 
>development license.
>   
>   I'm going to finish evaluating this, and I'm going to start my 
>project, but I won't be done in 30 days, and my journey will 
>probably end there.  Maybe I'm in the minority, but I can't afford 
>to lay out for tools anymore until I Know I'm going to get across 
>the finish line with something of value to sell.
>
>   This product needs to shoot for Volume.  That means - further 
>aggressive pricing.

Before they do that they need to get all the bugs out of it, IMO, if 
they went for massive volume now, the product would not get a very 
good reception.

All the Best
Dave


From tominjapan at excite.com  Sat Nov 26 07:15:56 2005
From: tominjapan at excite.com (Thomas McCarthy)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 07:15:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
Message-ID: <20051126121556.E2A91395F@xprdmailfe9.nwk.excite.com>


I'm a high school teacher and support my family single-income-style. I pay for my software/hardware out of pocket [not even tax credit.] I'm also the world's cheapest man; to wit we have had marital difficulties because I will not let love stand in the way of conserving cash.

The background is to let you know you can buy this software and sleep well because the world's cheapest man did it without batting an eye. He even upgraded once or twice without wincing [but he did wait until the last minute].

Now the world's cheapest man can justify his extravagence to his wife because one or two of his creations have brought in enough cash to compensate it.

But the real reason you will put that money down is because this product will deliver what you need in the least painful way. Don't need to declare variables as strings or integers. Don't need to use all those dots. You can change the code ON THE FLY and ON ANY PLATFORM. Most of all, the software thinks like a human thinks.
e.g.
Want the time of day? -> put the time
Want the word your user has clicked? -> put the clicktext
Want the first word that pops into my head? -> put the first word in TomsHead. [assuming it's a valid container!]
Want to know what I think? ->ask "What do you think" with "Rev's a great buy."

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!




From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sat Nov 26 07:21:53 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 04:21:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <BFAD4A61.30711%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511260421300.12482-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Oh, Happy Day!

Judy

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005, Ken Ray wrote:

> This was the same philosophy espoused by Scott Raney, when he was selling
> MetaCard for $999 and nothing else... of course, that was until RunRev
> picked it up...
>
> :-)



From darkshadow1 at metrocast.net  Sat Nov 26 08:34:58 2005
From: darkshadow1 at metrocast.net (Preston Shea)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 08:34:58 -0500
Subject: Where do I put icons?
Message-ID: <000e01c5f28e$31d38230$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>

I've got a bunch of 64 x 64 icons (myIcon.ico) that I need in a project. Where to I put them so they are accessible like the RR standard icons?

From klaus at major-k.de  Sat Nov 26 08:40:06 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:40:06 +0100
Subject: Where do I put icons?
In-Reply-To: <000e01c5f28e$31d38230$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
References: <000e01c5f28e$31d38230$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
Message-ID: <8DEDEFDD-0027-4731-82AE-6470A4AF3E40@major-k.de>

Hi Preston,

> I've got a bunch of 64 x 64 icons (myIcon.ico) that I need in a  
> project. Where to I put them so they are accessible like the RR  
> standard icons?

sorry, but Rev does not support the ICO format.

You will have to convert them to GIF, PNG or JPG format
to be able to use them.

The term "icon" in Rev might be a bit misleading since it
only means "images (of any size!) displayed inside of buttons" :-)


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Sat Nov 26 09:13:41 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 09:13:41 -0500
Subject: The Old Chestnut - Again
Message-ID: <web-339675288@mail.maclaunch.com>

So, at least part of my Beef about the end of the 'FREE'
10-lines-of-code may be partly justified . . . see Frank
R's points/moans.

I also understand the arguments put forward by Richard
Gaskin and Co.

I also know that working with the old RR 2 'Free' version
can get extremely frustrating - and the only way out of
this (short of giving up) is to acquire a liceense.

Might it not be an idea to break RR up into modules:

not as daft as it seems -

1. A really extremely basic version of RR for FREE . . .

2. Add on modules at various prices based on how valuable
their perceived capabilities are.

The BASIC FREE version could be crippled to the old 10-line
setting,

The first module could be one that removes that limitation,

Other modules would allow PRINTING, SOUND, NETWORKING,
INTERNET ACCESS, DATABASE INTERFACING and so on . . . 

For instance, in my own case - I need SOUND and PRINTING
for the tyoe of work I concentrate on; but I am a modest
sort of chap making modest sums. But the "Princes of the
Church" and Co. would pay more for more advanced
capabilities that their work required.

sincerely, Richmond


__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From soapdog at mac.com  Sat Nov 26 10:53:01 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:53:01 -0200
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <4387E099.7070906@fourthworld.com>
References: <20051125205154.91922.qmail@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20051125210742.33587.qmail@web32809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<dcf79b820511251810n30b0fcadk70add76746e22a5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4387E099.7070906@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1B801160-5CDF-446F-BCEA-4B6CE7154A68@mac.com>


On Nov 26, 2005, at 2:12 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Personally, I think Rev is priced too low.

Shhhhh... don't talk that too loud, I am trying to sum some money to  
buy a new license and pounds are expensive ;-)

Cheers
andre

From higginsta at mac.com  Sat Nov 26 11:39:40 2005
From: higginsta at mac.com (Todd Higgins)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 11:39:40 -0500
Subject: Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511252328y6770109sea1e61b12c31548@mail.gmail.com>
References: <57E59C23-E911-4B58-BF8E-1429E5AEC266@mac.com>
	<f99b52860511252328y6770109sea1e61b12c31548@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F5321AD-2FD7-42A8-88AE-88D1649CB7B3@mac.com>

Excellent suggestions Sarah.  Your right,  I need to start simple and  
work toward the complex.  Between reading about all of the exciting  
stuff people are doing with Rev and my own overactive imaginations  
its difficult to buckle down and start with "Hello World" : )

Thanks

Todd
--
Todd Higgins
higginsta at mac.com



On Nov 26, 2005, at 2:28 AM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

>> With no formal programming experience and no Hypercard background its
>> been slow going for me. As a technologist I am very comfortable using
>> computers, I can make servers bend to my will for most functions, but
>> when it comes to creating something from nothing I am stifled.  I
>> feel like I cannot get off the ground floor with anything -
>> Applescript, PERL, bash, Revolution,  and I think the reason is
>> because I'm rushing it.
>>
>
> My advice would be to find a SIMPLE project that you can see some
> value in but that is not too demanding. Write it and then start to
> improve it.
>
> Some people like to work by laying out the interface completely before
> starting any scripting. I tend to work by adding a few controls,
> scripting them and then adding more. It just depends which makes you
> feel more comfortable.
>
> For example, a lot of people start with a simple address book. Just
> write a stack with one entry per card that stores names and addresses.
> Then add a search routine. Next add reporting, so you can print a list
> of phone numbers. Then perhaps you want to be able to click a button
> and email a person in your list. If your database is getting big, you
> may want to explore different data storage mechanisms, perhaps even
> going to an external database like Valentina or MySQL. Now work out
> how to make it into a standalone.
>
> If you work your way through this progression, I am sure you will have
> a much better understanding of Rev's and your capabilities. Then you
> might want to go on to something more complex e.g. heavy database
> management, or some utility to integrate with your servers.
>
> Don't start off trying to integrate a multi-user external database
> with TCP sockets and C++ externals. All those things can be done, but
> they are not easy. Your need to get to know how Rev works normally:
> stacks cards, button, fields - basic stuff - before you start to work
> with the more esoteric parts of the system.
>
> As a starting point, I highly recommend that you have a look at the
> Scripting conference stacks. They start with very basic stuff and
> build on that. And remember, there are a lot of very experienced
> people on this list, so no matter what problems you encounter, ask and
> someone will be sure to help.
>
> HTH,
> Sarah
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From see3d at writeme.com  Sat Nov 26 11:52:39 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 11:52:39 -0500
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <61FEEAF4-47A6-49F9-992D-0386D8E9A2B0@writeme.com>

I am one of those free HC to paid HC to paid SC crossgrade to paid  
Rev enterprise crossgrade to paid Studio downgrade to paid DC to paid  
DC upgrade.  My gosh, I have owned one of every license!  Personal  
circumstances kept me from ever using the first Enterprise license,  
and I would never have purchased it for $1K.  I first purchased it at  
$300 with an early SC crossgrade promotion.  I dare say that I would  
never have gotten going with RR if they had not changed their pricing  
policy.  I think they have the right basic set of products/prices  
now.  A bit of tweaking might make a few more people happy.  If  
someone can not afford even the $100 for DC, let them use the $1K MC  
that is now free, then buy DC or studio if they want the latest IDE  
and features.  The price of DC is right.  The price of Studio is  
right.  The price of Enterprise is right.  Having the full spectrum  
is right.  Get a great hobby product with little personalized support  
from RR for low cost --on par with the entry level consumer products  
of major companies like Adobe.  Want expensive professional support,  
pay for a professional license.  Totally fair!  I am a happy camper,  
and very happy with RR product policy.  However, I must point out  
that without this list RR would likely die.  This list is the life  
blood that makes it possible for them to sell any cost product  
without impossible support problems.  Value of this list --Priceless!

I don't want this to be taken the wrong way (it is not meant to  
slight any of the truly appreciated professionals on this list), but  
if I were a professional programmer that was happy to pay $1K  
initially and upgrade my support every year (because it saved me  
money in my business), I would frown on RR offering a lower cost  
version to hobbyists.  My reasons would be selfish --I don't want RR  
to get distracted with another market segment and possibly lesson  
their focus and support of my needs, or worse go out of business  
because they misjudged the other market.

However, I don't think this is the likely case.  I think that they  
are more likely to stay in business with the current model --it is  
the model being used by the most successful companies today.  They  
are growing (I assume) slowly as the product matures.  At some point  
I expect this model is going to propel them forward into a larger  
company that can offer better general support and product bug fixes  
(I think bugs cost more to fix than adding minor new features), while  
continuing to support the professionals needs.

I expect to continue upgrading my DC every year and perhaps upgrade  
my Studio if I find I need to make a stand alone (which I have never  
needed to do).  My needs are met by DC for now, but I want to support  
RR so that they continue to fix bugs and add useful features.

My two cents.

Dennis

On Nov 26, 2005, at 5:03 AM, Kay C Lan wrote:

> I am a hobbiest and from my perspective I am thankful Runrev are  
> trying to
> cater to both ends of the market. I have been critical of Runrev's  
> pricing
> strategy before and have not agreed with it, but they seem to be  
> doing a
> good job because I have paid for license renewals over the years  
> and have
> never let my license lapse. I must stress though that I have done  
> so in
> small steps, and to me this is the key to Runrev extracting more  
> and more
> money out of me. I started out free, went to Express, then  
> DreamCard, and
> now Studio, which I have renewed. If Rev was ala ParcSystem,   
> Enterprise
> option only, they'd have none of my money. They are currently  
> extracting
> more money out of me than a Digitalk strategy because I have been  
> basically
> evaluating Rev for the last 4 years, and when I've discovered a 'new'
> feature that I'd like to take advantage of, but can't because it is  
> in a
> 'higher' edition, I've eventually concluded that I need to forked  
> over the
> money...
>
> I'm wondering if Dan has a feel for how many people got into scripting
> because of the FREE HyperCard that came with your Mac back in the  
> late 80's.
> Sure you eventually had to buy the later editions (2.1 was free if  
> I can
> remember, but after that if you wanted to create stacks you needed  
> to buy
> the Developer Tool - about U$120 I think). I still remember the MUG I
> belonged too suddenly sending out floppies with public domain  
> stacks. Then
> it was multiple floppies. There were stacks everywhere.
>
> I am still amazed at how many HyperCard refugees I see seeking a  
> new life
> here. I thought I was slow at coming to grips with the fact that  
> HyperCard
> is dead, but obviously some are still applying CPR;-) How many  
> people got
> hooked on the Free HyperCard, discovered that they could do  
> something useful
> with it, and then convinced themselves that they needed to buy the  
> Developer
> Pack so they could take advantage of the larger feature set of the  
> later
> editions. How many people made a living out of HyperCard based on  
> their free
> introduction (not a 30 day trial, but unlimited use free).


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Sat Nov 26 11:57:59 2005
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 11:57:59 -0500
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about whingeing
Message-ID: <OF02C6E10F.5A3CB031-ON852570C5.005AF478@sealedair.com>

On 11/24/2005 at 05:04 PM, Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> wrote:
> This definitely sounds like a user error. If you have more than one
> menu group it will create confusion. If the group "fgttryiolk" is in
> the place menu then it was because you 'the user' created it first,
> Rev certainly did not create it or put it in your stack. Rev gets
> blamed for things like this all of the time.

I have seen this "behavior" frequently -- yes frequently -- in the OS X 
version(s) of Rev since waaaaay back. Oddly though, the situation where a 
stack, group, or object strangely gets named some crazy name like 
"fgttryiolk" can hardly be written off as completely user error because I 
never see this happen in the Win2K/XP version of Rev. I don't want to 
anger the MacOS fans on this list, but there are anomalies like this that 
do not show themselves in Win or Lin systems.

> What probably happened was that you were trying to figure out what
> was wrong and either copied or created a menu group and while it was
> still selected accidentally typed in the name field, then deleted this
> background group from that particular card but it was still in the
> stack. Then you created a new group and had two menu groups and were
> trying to fix the one but the other one was still there.

Yes, these "accidents" tend to happen... especially when it LOOKS LIKE you 
are naming the correct object, group, or stack. I don't know if it is 
MacOS or the RevIDE implementation in MacOS that is at fault, but it 
happens alot, and you don't realize it until afterwards because the object 
inspector indicated that you were naming the selected object but it was 
something else completely.

> The best approach is always to create a sample stack and put a menu
> into it to see if it works and that you understand what you are doing
> in that stack then try and figure out what you did wrong in the
> broken stack.
> 
> Don't feel bad though, I certainly blame Rev first and then the Gods
> of programming before I grudgingly look at myself as the culprit.
> Most times if I post here others will point this out quickly and then
> I go OHH, sorry it was me after all. The only problem is that the
> thread looks like Rev is the problem but in reality it was me all along.

LOL  The "gods of programming" must work at Apple then.

> Next time it would be better not to put "what REALLY SUCKS about Rev"
> in the subject line when after all it more than likely and in this
> case was your mistake.

More appropriately, the subject could have been "what REALLY SUCKS about Rev --- ON OS X". Don't get me wrong. The MacOS 
is a cool and wonderful thing, but there is a certain quirkiness that 
often is simply overlooked by its many FANaticS (RunRev Team included). 
;-)

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>



From mpetrides at earthlink.net  Sat Nov 26 12:07:43 2005
From: mpetrides at earthlink.net (Marian Petrides)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 11:07:43 -0600
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about whingeing
In-Reply-To: <OF02C6E10F.5A3CB031-ON852570C5.005AF478@sealedair.com>
References: <OF02C6E10F.5A3CB031-ON852570C5.005AF478@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <C01AA98A-80DB-4F58-ACF8-E9350CE70A37@earthlink.net>


On Nov 26, 2005, at 10:57 AM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:

> The MacOS
> is a cool and wonderful thing, but there is a certain quirkiness that
> often is simply overlooked by its many FANaticS (RunRev Team  
> included).
> ;-)

I resemble that remark ;-)))

M
Just lightening things up a bit, lest anyone think I took serious  
affront at the comment.

From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Sat Nov 26 12:08:53 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 12:08:53 -0500
Subject: Totally FREE version of RunRev!
Message-ID: <web-339682151@mail.maclaunch.com>

YES; it's really true - and nothing to do with me!

The Linux version of RR 2.2 can be downloaded absolutely
free
- all you then require is a machine running a form of Linux

This should be quite good enough for the FRANKs who want to
play with RR for longer than 30 days

and

for cheapskates like me (woops).

Go get it at: http://www.runrev.com/section/press/36.php

sincerely, Richmond
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From frny4x at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 26 12:26:21 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 09:26:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Player use
In-Reply-To: <web-339682151@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <20051126172621.75679.qmail@web32812.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Ok, why can I play a MIDI file using a player copied to a window, but I can't
  play a MIDI file using the play command.  Using the play command, I get a nice screech, leading me to believe it is interpreting the MIDI file as an audio file of some form.
   
  ?
   


From rpresender at cox.net  Sat Nov 26 12:28:34 2005
From: rpresender at cox.net (Robert Presender)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 09:28:34 -0800
Subject: Small Print Problem
Message-ID: <b19d8efc77b1c57d4b22824cddbe7d63@cox.net>

Having a small problem with my print script shown below. Will 
appreciate any help.
Using a scrolling window stack. Rev 2.5.1, OS 10.3.9, Paper size 8.5x11

The top 232 pixels of the card contains numerous flds ,etc followed
  by fld Listfield. Fld Listfield can contain up to 47 lines for one 
page.

The first page prints fine. Using .88 as printScale, the textsize of 
ListField is
  between 9 and 10.  Subsequent pages,  containing  only the text of 
ListField,
use revPrintText but the printed text size is the initial size of 10.

Since I don't know how to emulate a printScale in revPrintText,  I 
change the
  textSize of ListField to 9.  This works fine but the text appearance 
is a little smaller
  than the first page. I would like subsequent pages  to be scaled like 
the first page.

Any thoughts will be appreciated.

on mouseUp
     lock screen
     set the vScroll of group "Checks" of this stack to 0 --zero
     set the backgroundcolor of this card to "White"
     set the printMargins to 36,36,0,0 --ltrb
     set the height of this stack to 800
     set the backSize of group "Checks" to 630,800
     set the printScale to .88
     put the num of lines of fld "ListField" into numLines

     if numLines <= 47 then -- up to one page
       open printing with dialog
       print this card from 0,20 to 630,800
       close printing
       set the height of this stack to 488 --reset to initial setting
       set the backSize of group "Checks" of this stack to 648,483 
--reset to initial setting
     end if

  if numLines > 47 then --prints first page and rest of fld ListField
       open printing with dialog -- test 11/25
       print this card from 0,20 to 630,800 -- as above

       set the textSize of fld "ListField" to 9
       revShowPrintDialog false,false --so dialogs doesn't show up 
--test 11/25
       revPrintText (line 48 to numLines of fld "ListField"),,,the long 
name of fld "ListField"

       set the textSize of fld "ListField" to 10 --reset to initial size
       set the height of this stack to 488
       set the backSize of group "Checks" of this stack to 648,483
     end if
end mouseUp  	

Regards ... Bob
rpresender at cox.net



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Nov 26 12:41:14 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 09:41:14 -0800
Subject: Player use
In-Reply-To: <20051126172621.75679.qmail@web32812.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051126172621.75679.qmail@web32812.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43889E3A.9040209@fourthworld.com>

Frank R wrote:
> Ok, why can I play a MIDI file using a player copied to a window, but I can't
>   play a MIDI file using the play command.  Using the play command, I get a nice screech, leading me to believe it is interpreting the MIDI file as an audio file of some form.

If the player is working for you why not use that?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From frny4x at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 26 13:51:44 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 10:51:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Player use
In-Reply-To: <43889E3A.9040209@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <20051126185144.85728.qmail@web32804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Cuz:
   
  1. It didn't make sense, and I'm trying to learn the product
  2. The play command makes it easy to play a segment of the file, which I need to do
  3. I need to start the player programmatically, and while I see messages to send to the player, I don't see a way to start it yet.

Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
  Frank R wrote:
> Ok, why can I play a MIDI file using a player copied to a window, but I can't
> play a MIDI file using the play command. Using the play command, I get a nice screech, leading me to believe it is interpreting the MIDI file as an audio file of some form.

If the player is working for you why not use that?

--
Richard Gaskin
Managing Editor, revJournal
_______________________________________________________
Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
  



From troy at rpsystems.net  Sat Nov 26 14:01:20 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:01:20 -0500
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <4387E099.7070906@fourthworld.com>
References: <20051125205154.91922.qmail@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<20051125210742.33587.qmail@web32809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<dcf79b820511251810n30b0fcadk70add76746e22a5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4387E099.7070906@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <6555b2f76527a4d40b82a4d69b4f371e@rpsystems.net>


On Nov 25, 2005, at 11:12 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> RealBASIC Standard      $99
>
> RealBASIC Pro          $399
>
> Macromedia Flash:      $699
>
> Macromedia Director: $1,199 (per platform)

I decided a while back not to get involved with "tool politics" in this 
forum (it has caused ill-will in the past), but just to be fair ? the 
latest versions of Macromedia Director can compile applications for 
both platforms it supports (Mac & Windows) with a single platform 
license, much the way Flash, and RealBasic are listed above.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Nov 26 14:07:48 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 11:07:48 -0800
Subject: Player use
In-Reply-To: <20051126185144.85728.qmail@web32804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051126185144.85728.qmail@web32804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4388B284.1000509@fourthworld.com>

Frank R wrote:
 > Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
 > If the player is working for you why not use that?
 >
 >   1. It didn't make sense, and I'm trying to learn the product

The play command is an old interface to the system's video and audio 
playback.  While not officially depricated, it doesn't offer nearly the 
flexibility of the player object.

I may be wrong on this, but I believe the play command is limited in the 
variety of formats it can play.  Technically speaking, a MIDI files 
isn't an audio file per se, but merely instructions to create an audio 
experience dynamically.  It may be that the play command simple doesn't 
handle the MIDI format.

I never use the play command, so I'm sure one of the readers here with 
more experience with it can chime in with details, but I do use the 
player object regularly and can help you get going with that newer, more 
flexible interface.


 >   2. The play command makes it easy to play a segment of the
 > file, which I need to do

Player objects have a startTime and endTime property, and a 
playSelection property which governs whether the startTime and endTime 
are honored.

To play a specific segment of a file:

   set the playSelection of player 1 to true
   set the startTime of player 1 to 500
   set the endTime of player 1 to 1000


 >   3. I need to start the player programmatically, and while I
 > see messages to send to the player, I don't see a way to start
 > it yet.

   start player 1

And the player can be stopped with:

   stop player 1

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat Nov 26 14:08:06 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:08:06 -0600
Subject: Player use
In-Reply-To: <43889E3A.9040209@fourthworld.com>
References: <20051126172621.75679.qmail@web32812.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<43889E3A.9040209@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <4388B296.6010609@hyperactivesw.com>

Frank R wrote:

 > Ok, why can I play a MIDI file using a player copied to a window, but
 > I can't play a MIDI file using the play command.  Using the play
 > command, I get a nice screech, leading me to believe it is
 > interpreting the MIDI file as an audio file of some form.

Right. Player objects use QuickTime to interpret and process the audio. 
Since QT supports MIDI, it plays correctly. You also have more control 
over playback when using a player object.

The "play" command works with only a subset of audio formats and plays 
the files directly. In general, you can use the "play" command with .au, 
.aif, and .wav files as long as they have NO compression (and I haven't 
had great luck with .wav in any case.)

If at all possible, a player object is the prefered method, and for the 
case of MIDI it is the only method.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jeff at siphonophore.com  Sat Nov 26 14:38:10 2005
From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeffrey Reynolds)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:38:10 -0500
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about whingeing
In-Reply-To: <20051126180005.A21F08254A4@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051126180005.A21F08254A4@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <53c68b243f6cd8e75c901b75fc15d974@siphonophore.com>

hmm, well i havnt seen this flavor of oddness, but the few weird 'how 
did that happen???' things with groups have all happened on the Windows 
side for me and I do most of my development on the Mac side. Since this 
is usually after a lot of development time, its hard to say exactly 
what caused it all, its almost always unreproducable, so most likely 
just a screwup somewhere along the way.

I think some of this is summed up by some stuff just does happen, 
whether its a bug, file corruption or a user goof or just doing things 
in such an order that a strange event happens (yes this is a bug, but 
not a real one since all extreme permutations/combinations cant ever be 
tested/accounted for). I find that the total quantity of these in MC 
and Rev while developing all sorts of apps to be very low compared to 
all other systems i have used over the last 25 years on macs or pcs. I 
have also never gotten myself painted into a corner with Rev or MC and 
always found a solution or at worst a work around. I have watched many 
friends and coworkers get painted into some very, very nasty corners in 
the past with many of the other big systems out there!

Expecting no strangeness to happen in complicated systems like this is 
just asking way, way too much, IMHO. Yes its frustrating when you hit a 
snag, but a deep breath, some elbow grease, and post/replies from this 
list has always gotten around this for me with MC/Rev. It would be 
great in a perfect world that this would never be needed, but living in 
the real world i find that MC/Rev has made my life sooo much better 
than the alternatives I have worked with, that i can put up with a few 
oddities once and great while.

cheers,

Jeffrey Reynolds


On Nov 26, 2005, at 1:00 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

> On 11/24/2005 at 05:04 PM, Thomas McGrath III <3mcgrath at adelphia.net> 
> wrote:
>> This definitely sounds like a user error. If you have more than one
>> menu group it will create confusion. If the group "fgttryiolk" is in
>> the place menu then it was because you 'the user' created it first,
>> Rev certainly did not create it or put it in your stack. Rev gets
>> blamed for things like this all of the time.
>
> I have seen this "behavior" frequently -- yes frequently -- in the OS X
> version(s) of Rev since waaaaay back. Oddly though, the situation 
> where a
> stack, group, or object strangely gets named some crazy name like
> "fgttryiolk" can hardly be written off as completely user error 
> because I
> never see this happen in the Win2K/XP version of Rev. I don't want to
> anger the MacOS fans on this list, but there are anomalies like this 
> that
> do not show themselves in Win or Lin systems.



From fgiannet at hotmail.com  Sat Nov 26 14:53:16 2005
From: fgiannet at hotmail.com (Fred Giannetto)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:53:16 -0500
Subject: Question on Radio Buttons
In-Reply-To: <4383C81F.1090904@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BAY106-F9E0B7F912F638821A88A2D7560@phx.gbl>

Hello Phil Davis,

I do not have access to it now but two more questions.  The question names 
are still active when all the buttons are set up as a group (I imagine I 
must have to set then up before they are a group)?  Why doesn't

answer gQuestion1

return a value when used in a button?

Thank you and Happy Holidays
All best Always
Fred


>From: Phil Davis <davis.phil at comcast.net>
>Reply-To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
>Subject: Re: Question on Radio Buttons
>Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 17:38:39 -0800
>
>Hi Fred -
>
>If you just want to put the into the global, try this:
>
>on mouseUp -- in the radio button group
>   global gQuestion1
>   put the hilitedButtonName of me into gQuestion1
>end mouseUp
>
>Then your original 'button script' below should work fine.
>
>
>If you want to score each answer as you go, you could do this:
>- set the name of each radio button to either "correct" or "wrong"
>- set the label of each button to its answer text
>- make your script do this:
>
>on mouseUp -- in the radio button group
>   global gQuestion1
>   put the hilitedButtonName of me & cr \
>     & the label of the target into gQuestion1
>end mouseUp
>
>This would put a 2-line response into gQuestion1.
>- line 1 = 'correct' or 'wrong'
>- line 2 = the answer they selected
>
>There are also other ways to accomplish this or just about anything else 
>you want to do.
>
>Food for thought...
>
>Phil Davis
>
>
>
>Fred Giannetto wrote:
>>Hello,
>>
>>I am trying to store the response from a radio button group in a global 
>>variable.  I have went throught the board and every remedy I try does not 
>>return a value.  I have one multiple choice group and one button that I am 
>>using to try to answer the result (so I can see if it is processing)
>>
>>
>>I have tried two different approaches
>>                                      Radio Button Group
>>on mouseup
>>  --put the hiliteButtonName of me into gTest
>>  --put the hiliteButtonID of me into gTest
>>  if the target is B then put "Correct" into gQuestion1 else put "Wrong" 
>>into gQuestion1
>>end mouseup
>>
>>                                     Button Script
>>on mouseUp
>>  global gQuestion1
>>  --global gTest
>>  --answer gTest
>>  answer gQuestion1
>>end mouseUp
>>
>>For some reason I can not seem to grasp this concept.
>>
>>Thank you
>>All best Always
>>Fred
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>use-revolution mailing list
>>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>subscription preferences:
>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Nov 26 14:54:44 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 11:54:44 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
Message-ID: <C3A1AE5A-E15A-40F3-9426-BE79EE992F06@danshafer.com>

Well-said, Preston! I'm adding this to my quotation list for my  
positive reminders of why I do what I do.


On Nov 26, 2005, at 12:04 AM, Preston Shea wrote:

> A thousand bucks to set up your own contracting business? You gotta  
> be kidding!



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Nov 26 15:01:01 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 12:01:01 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7EF1B5A7-785C-4AD3-892D-CC1045F55244@danshafer.com>

I honestly do not believe that a single small company -- and RunRev  
is small -- can do a great job of serving both the professional  
programming market and the hobbyist/Inventive User market. The needs,  
expectations, demands, support requirements, feature sets,  
documentation needs, training level and a host of other factors are  
just too vastly different between them.

I've been racking my brain the last 48 hours and I cannot come up  
with a single development tool company that has succeeded at doing  
this since Borland's very early days. I'd be delighted if someone  
could point me to a real exception to that rule, but absent that, I  
maintain my position. RunRev needs to decide whether it's going to  
try to get professional coders to switch to Rev or adopt it as a RAD  
or alternative tool, or go after the untapped market potential of the  
Inventive User. Until it makes that decision and then permeates the  
company and its policies with it, it will have difficulty being as  
successful as it can.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Nov 26 15:04:40 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 12:04:40 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <20051126103555.99312.qmail@web32811.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051126103555.99312.qmail@web32811.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B4D051B4-1F7A-4001-9420-45E101AB54B6@danshafer.com>

Frank.....

Can you give us an example or two of where this pricing is common  
among development tools? I see feature-crippled and time-limited  
evaluation licensing all the time, but I can't honestly think of a  
single development tool that has a free learning edition that you  
upgrade to so you can deploy apps.

Also, with an environment like Rev, the distinction between "deploy  
as a standalone" and "deploy as a stack" is badly blurred by the fact  
that: (a) anyone with a RunRev tool (and in your scenario that would  
include anyone who wanted to download it) can run any stack anyone  
else creates, at least conceptually; and (b) there are at least two  
free players available that would allow the owner of a 0-cost  
"learning edition" to distribute (and presumably therefore sell)  
products that run in either the IDE or the players without paying a  
dime for the tool. That is a good way to sink the tool company.

On Nov 26, 2005, at 2:35 AM, Frank R wrote:

> This type of Learning Edition pricing is actually common - and well  
> received.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Nov 26 15:06:37 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 12:06:37 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <20051126104131.75087.qmail@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051126104131.75087.qmail@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8AE5B952-449F-4A2E-98FD-CAFB826F0B51@danshafer.com>

Frank...

Supplementing my last post with a response to this....

On Nov 26, 2005, at 2:41 AM, Frank R wrote:

>>  ie for $20 you can have DreamCard but whatever you create
>> can only run in your copy of DreamCard, if you want to deploy to  
>> other
>> DreamCard users you'll need the $99 version

This would require RunRev to institute another level of copy  
protection or code protection so that something I write in my copy of  
Dreamcard wouldn't run in either the free player or in someone else's  
Dreamcard environment. All so that a few people who don't want to  
part with a hundred bucks can learn the tool? Nope. Has to be a more  
economically efficient and sustainable way to accomplish what you want.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Nov 26 15:08:13 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 12:08:13 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <a05210602bfadfeb499c9@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <20051125210742.33587.qmail@web32809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<a05210602bfadfeb499c9@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <D32CE989-0462-477A-B232-F30CF0C26B16@danshafer.com>

There's no such thing as bug-free software.

And the company has recently begun doing a fantastic job of squashing  
bugs, so they get the message that they need to be more bug-free.


On Nov 26, 2005, at 4:03 AM, David Burgun wrote:

> Before they do that they need to get all the bugs out of it,



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Nov 26 15:14:32 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 12:14:32 -0800
Subject: The Old Chestnut - Again
In-Reply-To: <web-339675288@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339675288@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <3699A501-3499-41F0-B2E6-C025B43359BC@danshafer.com>

As someone who has been playing in the software universe for far, far  
too long, I can tell you that:

(a) your basic idea is attractive and workable
(b) it is an economic disaster for the publisher

Why? Because of something called SKUs. That stands for "Stock Keeping  
Unit" and it's the number by which wholesalers, distributors and  
retailers identify a specific product uniquely for inventory tracking  
and sales monitoring purposes. There is a fundamental business  
principle that says the more SKUs you try to put into the channel of  
distribution, the greater will be the resistance to your entire line.  
Large companies can overcome that resistance. Small companies are  
hard-pressed to do so.

On Nov 26, 2005, at 6:13 AM, Mathewson wrote:

> Might it not be an idea to break RR up into modules:



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From david at openpartnership.net  Sat Nov 26 15:18:22 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 21:18:22 +0100
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <7EF1B5A7-785C-4AD3-892D-CC1045F55244@danshafer.com>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>
	<7EF1B5A7-785C-4AD3-892D-CC1045F55244@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <5241746B-D6B7-4DF2-BC74-F0B0D86E715B@openpartnership.net>

On 26 Nov 2005, at 21:01, Dan Shafer wrote:

> I've been racking my brain the last 48 hours and I cannot come up  
> with a single development tool company that has succeeded at doing  
> this since Borland's very early days. I'd be delighted if someone  
> could point me to a real exception to that rule, but absent that, I  
> maintain my position. RunRev needs to decide whether it's going to  
> try to get professional coders to switch to Rev or adopt it as a  
> RAD or alternative tool, or go after the untapped market potential  
> of the Inventive User. Until it makes that decision and then  
> permeates the company and its policies with it, it will have  
> difficulty being as successful as it can.

I'd second that.

What I would love to see is RunRev let go substantially of the  
professional coders end of the market, by adopting an innovative open  
content strategy, and reaping the benefits of being able to package  
the features developed in the professional market for the "Inventive  
User" (nice term).

Scott Raney tried to do it the other way round - licensing the core  
engine / code to developers who could then produce IDE's like RunRev  
have done. I think this was a good idea too - but the time was not  
quite right.


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Nov 26 15:24:16 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 12:24:16 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <61FEEAF4-47A6-49F9-992D-0386D8E9A2B0@writeme.com>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>
	<61FEEAF4-47A6-49F9-992D-0386D8E9A2B0@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <B67E11A1-3BE7-4C2E-8FE8-BA94373A28E4@danshafer.com>

Dennis....

A well-thought-out and appreciated post.

But, as with others who have offered this viewpoint, I am compelled  
to ask you to provide even one example of a development tool company  
following the strategy you describe below that you say is "being used  
by the most successful companies today."

And I'll expand on that a bit. Not only can I not think of a single  
*development tool* company following the strategy of trying to serve  
two markets with a single product, I can't even come up with a single  
successful software company doing that. When I think of successful  
software companies in the desktop universe, I think of:

Microsoft
Adobe
Macromedia (about to be swallowed by Adobe if that hasn't been  
finalized yet)
Apple (partly)
Real
Maybe Oracle (which is a dev tools vendor in large part, but not much  
on the desktop)

Adobe doesn't have a low-cost entry version of Acrobat or inDesign. A  
trial version, yes, but when it expires you pay through the nose to  
keep using it. Same with Macromedia. Apple supports low- and high-end  
users in a couple of its strategic markets, but with two separate  
products, not a low-cost version of the high-priced one. Real has a  
free player but if you want to start creating Real media streams  
you're gonna pay a bundle.

So where are these software companies that are following this two- 
market strategy successfully? To the contrary, I think the secret to  
a successful company -- in any sphere -- is focus. Do what you do  
well and let others do the stuff you don't do well. If RunRev had a  
couple hundred people, *maybe* they could figure out how to serve  
both markets with great success. Short of that, I am unconvinced.

On Nov 26, 2005, at 8:52 AM, Dennis Brown wrote:

> I think that they are more likely to stay in business with the  
> current model --it is the model being used by the most successful  
> companies today.  They are growing (I assume) slowly as the product  
> matures.  At some point I expect this model is going to propel them  
> forward into a larger company that can offer better general support  
> and product bug fixes (I think bugs cost more to fix than adding  
> minor new features), while continuing to support the professionals  
> needs.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Nov 26 15:27:32 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 12:27:32 -0800
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about whingeing
In-Reply-To: <OF02C6E10F.5A3CB031-ON852570C5.005AF478@sealedair.com>
References: <OF02C6E10F.5A3CB031-ON852570C5.005AF478@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <5CE25A4B-0713-4CB9-BF43-7F19F9F380A4@danshafer.com>

Roger....

Interestingly, I have *never* encounhtered most of the anomalies  
mentioned in this thread and I program in Rev exclusively on OS X.

Yeah, I'm a MacBigot and I may just be blissfully unaware of these  
issues. But I've written hundreds of small code snippets for books  
and articles and more than a dozen commercial-grade apps, to say  
nothing of a larger number of small utilities, test stacks, demos,  
proofs-of-concept, etc., and I just don't have the experience with OS  
X that you report here.


On Nov 26, 2005, at 8:57 AM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:

> Don't get me wrong. The MacOS
> is a cool and wonderful thing, but there is a certain quirkiness that
> often is simply overlooked by its many FANaticS (RunRev Team  
> included).



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From david at openpartnership.net  Sat Nov 26 15:34:09 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 21:34:09 +0100
Subject: The Old Chestnut - Again
In-Reply-To: <3699A501-3499-41F0-B2E6-C025B43359BC@danshafer.com>
References: <web-339675288@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<3699A501-3499-41F0-B2E6-C025B43359BC@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <A5B25116-5384-41FC-8DD5-5C6C849FAA32@openpartnership.net>

On 26 Nov 2005, at 21:14, Dan Shafer wrote:

> As someone who has been playing in the software universe for far,  
> far too long, I can tell you that:
>
> (a) your basic idea is attractive and workable
> (b) it is an economic disaster for the publisher
>
> Why? Because of something called SKUs. That stands for "Stock  
> Keeping Unit" and it's the number by which wholesalers,  
> distributors and retailers identify a specific product uniquely for  
> inventory tracking and sales monitoring purposes. There is a  
> fundamental business principle that says the more SKUs you try to  
> put into the channel of distribution, the greater will be the  
> resistance to your entire line. Large companies can overcome that  
> resistance. Small companies are hard-pressed to do so.

This is very true - with one qualification:

If the price of adding an extra item (and maintaining it) to your  
inventory falls below a certain threshold the economics get  
substantially reversed. Amazon is a case-study here. Most publishers  
make 80% or more of their money from the big sellers making virtually  
all of the rest of their inventory useless in terms of a hard bottom- 
line. This goes for music and video too.

However recent analysis of Amazon sales has shown that they manage to  
generate a substantial part of their profits from the bottom end of  
their stock (in terms of sales) - from memory some 30%. This is  
because of the very low cost to them of adding (and maintaining) new  
SKU's to their inventory - this combined with their reseller  
programme greatly facilitated by the REST based web services which  
allow just about anybody to offer selections of Amazon books for sale  
on their own custom sites.

No-one has managed to do this with software components yet. My view  
is that due to the technology and community involved in the  
Revolution environment - RunRev are uniquely placed to pull such a  
trick off. Whether anyone agrees with me on that is another question.


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sat Nov 26 16:02:30 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:02:30 -0800
Subject: The Old Chestnut - Again
In-Reply-To: <A5B25116-5384-41FC-8DD5-5C6C849FAA32@openpartnership.net>
References: <web-339675288@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<3699A501-3499-41F0-B2E6-C025B43359BC@danshafer.com>
	<A5B25116-5384-41FC-8DD5-5C6C849FAA32@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <69946465-4E6A-45FD-B74A-F0440ECE2205@danshafer.com>

David...

Good response. I agree that new markets can turn into wonderful  
exceptions.

On Nov 26, 2005, at 12:34 PM, David Bovill wrote:

> No-one has managed to do this with software components yet. My view  
> is that due to the technology and community involved in the  
> Revolution environment - RunRev are uniquely placed to pull such a  
> trick off. Whether anyone agrees with me on that is another question.

I have given up on this dream. In the 70's and 80's, several  
companies tried -- with true object-oriented platforms such as  
Smalltalk and Java -- to create viable third-party marketplaces for  
software components, to no avail. I think it's an unattainable  
objective, for reasons that are far too complex to go into on this  
forum.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From mark at maseurope.net  Sat Nov 26 16:03:49 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 21:03:49 +0000
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <7EF1B5A7-785C-4AD3-892D-CC1045F55244@danshafer.com>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>
	<7EF1B5A7-785C-4AD3-892D-CC1045F55244@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <1DB4B959-98DB-4BEB-879E-030435AD7208@maseurope.net>

Dan, this is an innocent question, not intended to provoke or  
contradict, but where do you think Rev is currently falling down with  
regard to either pro developers or inventive users?

As a hobbyist/inventive user (an excellent phrase, btw), I feel very  
well served by Rev, though perhaps others may not.


Mark

On 26 Nov 2005, at 20:01, Dan Shafer wrote:

> I honestly do not believe that a single small company -- and RunRev  
> is small -- can do a great job of serving both the professional  
> programming market and the hobbyist/Inventive User market. The  
> needs, expectations, demands, support requirements, feature sets,  
> documentation needs, training level and a host of other factors are  
> just too vastly different between them.
>
> I've been racking my brain the last 48 hours and I cannot come up  
> with a single development tool company that has succeeded at doing  
> this since Borland's very early days. I'd be delighted if someone  
> could point me to a real exception to that rule, but absent that, I  
> maintain my position. RunRev needs to decide whether it's going to  
> try to get professional coders to switch to Rev or adopt it as a  
> RAD or alternative tool, or go after the untapped market potential  
> of the Inventive User. Until it makes that decision and then  
> permeates the company and its policies with it, it will have  
> difficulty being as successful as it can.
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
> http://www.shafermedia.com
> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Nov 26 16:06:02 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:06:02 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <B67E11A1-3BE7-4C2E-8FE8-BA94373A28E4@danshafer.com>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>	<61FEEAF4-47A6-49F9-992D-0386D8E9A2B0@writeme.com>
	<B67E11A1-3BE7-4C2E-8FE8-BA94373A28E4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <4388CE3A.80700@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:
> Not only can I not think of a single *development tool* company
> following the strategy of trying to serve two markets with a
> single product, I can't even come up with a single successful
> software company doing that.

Agreed 100%.

If a tool has any potential to appeal to pros, I believe there's 
sufficient evidence to support the view that focusing on the pro market 
will ultimately benefit both pros and hobbyists more than focusing on 
the latter.

Pros need pro tools, and even hobbysts aspire to professional-looking 
results.  A strategy that appeals to the high end will appeal to both.

If a company is large enough to fully invest the necessary resources for 
two completely different markets (large enough to operate effectively as 
two separate companies), a two-pronged approach may have merit.

But in our world with inherent limitations, that's a tough thing to do. 
  Consider DreamCard:  to fulfill its mission it really needs a very 
different UI from Rev, but as it is it's essentially the same product 
without the standalone builder.  DreamCard's been around for years -- if 
there are plans to further differentiate it history evidently supports 
the view that resources are insufficient to pull that off.

To the degree this is a result of focusing on the pro product maybe 
that's not so bad.  My perspective is admittedly skewed, being dependent 
on the pro product to manage the three businesses in which I'm CTO:  I'd 
hate to see any slowdown of bug fixes or feature enhancements in the 
engine to make a prettier entry-level tool.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Nov 26 16:12:57 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:12:57 -0800
Subject: The Old Chestnut - Again
In-Reply-To: <69946465-4E6A-45FD-B74A-F0440ECE2205@danshafer.com>
References: <web-339675288@mail.maclaunch.com>	<3699A501-3499-41F0-B2E6-C025B43359BC@danshafer.com>	<A5B25116-5384-41FC-8DD5-5C6C849FAA32@openpartnership.net>
	<69946465-4E6A-45FD-B74A-F0440ECE2205@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <4388CFD9.20706@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:
> On Nov 26, 2005, at 12:34 PM, David Bovill wrote:
> 
>> No-one has managed to do this with software components yet. My view  
>> is that due to the technology and community involved in the  
>> Revolution environment - RunRev are uniquely placed to pull such a  
>> trick off. Whether anyone agrees with me on that is another question.
>
> I have given up on this dream. In the 70's and 80's, several  companies 
> tried -- with true object-oriented platforms such as  Smalltalk and Java 
> -- to create viable third-party marketplaces for  software components, 
> to no avail. I think it's an unattainable  objective, for reasons that 
> are far too complex to go into on this  forum.

There is one exception:  components for Microsoft's Visual Basic.  As of 
five years ago the aftermarket for VB was estimated at more than $400 
million.

Of course, anyone intimately familiar with Microsoft can describe the 
underhanded shennanigans Microsoft pulled to get that market going (oh, 
the stories I've heard).

Among companies operating in any above-board fashion, there are indeed 
few examples.  Once upon a time Fourth World was the leading externals 
distributor for SuperCard -- even before SuperCard's troubles under 
Allegiant, selling components is just not an easy business to be in. 
It's a low-margin, high-support proposition.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From david at openpartnership.net  Sat Nov 26 16:12:55 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:12:55 +0100
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <1DB4B959-98DB-4BEB-879E-030435AD7208@maseurope.net>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>
	<7EF1B5A7-785C-4AD3-892D-CC1045F55244@danshafer.com>
	<1DB4B959-98DB-4BEB-879E-030435AD7208@maseurope.net>
Message-ID: <62BEE3C1-C57E-4182-9275-3814B453DC7C@openpartnership.net>

On 26 Nov 2005, at 22:03, Mark Smith wrote:

> Dan, this is an innocent question, not intended to provoke or  
> contradict, but where do you think Rev is currently falling down  
> with regard to either pro developers or inventive users?

Hard one to answer as RunRev do do a VERY good job at trying to serve  
both ends of the market - no better deal fi you cater for both cross  
platform.


However from my personal perspective I'd note the following:

     1) Lack of the large number of professional grade commercial  
plugins or open source libraries available compared to other  
platforms (this seems to be changing slowly).

     2) Slowly deteriorating *nix support (hopefully to be remedied  
soon).

     3) Lack of open source strategy -  not helping with contracts or  
to fix 2) and 3) above.


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Nov 26 16:18:18 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:18:18 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <62BEE3C1-C57E-4182-9275-3814B453DC7C@openpartnership.net>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>	<7EF1B5A7-785C-4AD3-892D-CC1045F55244@danshafer.com>	<1DB4B959-98DB-4BEB-879E-030435AD7208@maseurope.net>
	<62BEE3C1-C57E-4182-9275-3814B453DC7C@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <4388D11A.1060507@fourthworld.com>

David Bovill wrote:
>     1) Lack of the large number of professional grade commercial  
> plugins or open source libraries available compared to other  platforms 
> (this seems to be changing slowly).

They're out there, just poorly cataloged.  RunRev currently only lists 
components they resell, and the DMOZ index contains only a slender 
subset of what's available:
<http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Transcript/>


>     2) Slowly deteriorating *nix support (hopefully to be remedied  soon).

Relative to ROI, I can't argue with them there.  How many folks on this 
list are using IRIX?

>     3) Lack of open source strategy -  not helping with contracts or  to 
> fix 2) and 3) above.

I hope I never see the day when RunRev takes resources away from product 
development to start hiring lawyers to do legal consulting.

RunRev's license seems very clear to me, and I don't expect them to 
assist me with negotiating my own contracts with my clients.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From david at openpartnership.net  Sat Nov 26 16:21:05 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:21:05 +0100
Subject: The Old Chestnut - Again
In-Reply-To: <69946465-4E6A-45FD-B74A-F0440ECE2205@danshafer.com>
References: <web-339675288@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<3699A501-3499-41F0-B2E6-C025B43359BC@danshafer.com>
	<A5B25116-5384-41FC-8DD5-5C6C849FAA32@openpartnership.net>
	<69946465-4E6A-45FD-B74A-F0440ECE2205@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <E5465AD5-2F80-4F0E-8AF6-B2CC36197D0E@openpartnership.net>

On 26 Nov 2005, at 22:02, Dan Shafer wrote:

> I have given up on this dream. In the 70's and 80's, several  
> companies tried -- with true object-oriented platforms such as  
> Smalltalk and Java -- to create viable third-party marketplaces for  
> software components, to no avail.

I know what you mean. I remain an optimist, partly because I never  
remotely thought the previous efforts would work, and partly because  
a number of things have moved on:

     1) Open source cryptography and built upon this online eCommerce

     2) Social software and an understanding of how to build shared  
communities of value.

     3) Greatly simplified, robust and easy to deploy and maintain  
components that developers can both use - and some are willing to pay  
for (web services form part of that admittedly new equation,  
Revolution could fill another part).


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Nov 26 16:24:25 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:24:25 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <5241746B-D6B7-4DF2-BC74-F0B0D86E715B@openpartnership.net>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>	<7EF1B5A7-785C-4AD3-892D-CC1045F55244@danshafer.com>
	<5241746B-D6B7-4DF2-BC74-F0B0D86E715B@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <4388D289.1010901@fourthworld.com>

David Bovill wrote:
> What I would love to see is RunRev let go substantially of the  
> professional coders end of the market, by adopting an innovative open  
> content strategy

Letting go of users able and willing to pay top dollar to pursue a 
customer self-qualified as less willing to pay seems risky at best.

I would wholeheartedly support a move by RunRev to spin off the pro 
product to someone else if they find themselves too encumbered with 
other considerations to handle it effectively.

At the moment, however, they seem to be doing fine, well worth my 
clients paying $500 annually for renewal -- free money, year after year, 
like clockwork.

It costs far more to acquire five new DreamCard customers than it does 
to simply renew an Enterprise license.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Sat Nov 26 16:24:41 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 16:24:41 -0500
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about whingeing
In-Reply-To: <5CE25A4B-0713-4CB9-BF43-7F19F9F380A4@danshafer.com>
References: <OF02C6E10F.5A3CB031-ON852570C5.005AF478@sealedair.com>
	<5CE25A4B-0713-4CB9-BF43-7F19F9F380A4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <6A7D7671-9EFD-4C8E-BD8E-1A891598D907@adelphia.net>

I agree Dan...

I have never had any of these issues come up for me.

Tom

On Nov 26, 2005, at 3:27 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Roger....
>
> Interestingly, I have *never* encounhtered most of the anomalies  
> mentioned in this thread and I program in Rev exclusively on OS X.
>
> Yeah, I'm a MacBigot and I may just be blissfully unaware of these  
> issues. But I've written hundreds of small code snippets for books  
> and articles and more than a dozen commercial-grade apps, to say  
> nothing of a larger number of small utilities, test stacks, demos,  
> proofs-of-concept, etc., and I just don't have the experience with  
> OS X that you report here.
>
>
> On Nov 26, 2005, at 8:57 AM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:
>
>> Don't get me wrong. The MacOS
>> is a cool and wonderful thing, but there is a certain quirkiness that
>> often is simply overlooked by its many FANaticS (RunRev Team  
>> included).
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
> http://www.shafermedia.com
> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From david at openpartnership.net  Sat Nov 26 16:26:16 2005
From: david at openpartnership.net (David Bovill)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:26:16 +0100
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <4388D11A.1060507@fourthworld.com>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>	<7EF1B5A7-785C-4AD3-892D-CC1045F55244@danshafer.com>	<1DB4B959-98DB-4BEB-879E-030435AD7208@maseurope.net>
	<62BEE3C1-C57E-4182-9275-3814B453DC7C@openpartnership.net>
	<4388D11A.1060507@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <EE7EF378-0C2C-421F-BC74-D67D4EF7DA5D@openpartnership.net>

On 26 Nov 2005, at 22:18, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> David Bovill wrote:
>
>>     1) Lack of the large number of professional grade commercial   
>> plugins or open source libraries available compared to other   
>> platforms (this seems to be changing slowly).
>
> They're out there, just poorly cataloged.  RunRev currently only  
> lists components they resell, and the DMOZ index contains only a  
> slender subset of what's available:
> <http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Transcript/>

But nothing even close to what you get if you compare it to Java  
(largely due to the careful open source strategy), and dare I say  
Director?


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Nov 26 16:31:23 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:31:23 -0800
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about whingeing
In-Reply-To: <53c68b243f6cd8e75c901b75fc15d974@siphonophore.com>
References: <20051126180005.A21F08254A4@mail.runrev.com>
	<53c68b243f6cd8e75c901b75fc15d974@siphonophore.com>
Message-ID: <4388D42B.8020503@fourthworld.com>

Jeffrey Reynolds wrote:
> I think some of this is summed up by some stuff just does happen, 
> whether its a bug, file corruption or a user goof or just doing things 
> in such an order that a strange event happens

Fortunately you can rule out file corruption for 99% of the cases where 
it's suspected:
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2003-June/017928.html>
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2002-December/010842.html>
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2002-December/010776.html>

Reducing the range of possible causes of a problem will help you 
discover the true cause more quickly.

Corruption is not impossible with any file format, but for the reasons 
described in those posts it's exremely rare with Rev, certainly orders 
of magnitude more frequent in any other xTalk or even FileMaker Pro.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Nov 26 16:33:11 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:33:11 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <EE7EF378-0C2C-421F-BC74-D67D4EF7DA5D@openpartnership.net>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>	<7EF1B5A7-785C-4AD3-892D-CC1045F55244@danshafer.com>	<1DB4B959-98DB-4BEB-879E-030435AD7208@maseurope.net>	<62BEE3C1-C57E-4182-9275-3814B453DC7C@openpartnership.net>	<4388D11A.1060507@fourthworld.com>
	<EE7EF378-0C2C-421F-BC74-D67D4EF7DA5D@openpartnership.net>
Message-ID: <4388D497.5020501@fourthworld.com>

David Bovill wrote:
> On 26 Nov 2005, at 22:18, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> David Bovill wrote:
>>
>>>     1) Lack of the large number of professional grade commercial   
>>> plugins or open source libraries available compared to other   
>>> platforms (this seems to be changing slowly).
>>
>>
>> They're out there, just poorly cataloged.  RunRev currently only  
>> lists components they resell, and the DMOZ index contains only a  
>> slender subset of what's available:
>> <http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Transcript/>
> 
> 
> But nothing even close to what you get if you compare it to Java  
> (largely due to the careful open source strategy), and dare I say  
> Director?

Maye having million-dollar marketing budgets helped. ;)

As for Director, while there are a great many components there is no 
longer a single third-party source for them.  Gray Matter used to be 
that source, but they closed their doors many years ago, and today only 
Macromedia themselves can afford to be the central repository.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat Nov 26 16:56:10 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:56:10 -0800
Subject: Kudos to Jacque for the Script Conferences
Message-ID: <4388D9FA.9040004@fourthworld.com>

This morning was the last of 16 installments of the Scripting 
Conferences organized by Jacque Gay with the help of RunRev and more 
than a dozen scripting experts (and one slacker who did the session on 
the Message Hierarchy <g>).

I can only imagine how much work it takes to pull off a project like 
that, but we can all see the excellent results firsthand:

<http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences/>

On that page you can downkload 16 stacks covering a great many details 
on the most important aspects of learning and using Transcript.

Whether you're just getting started learning Rev, or are a seasoned pro 
looking to brush up on some aspects of the language you haven't yet 
mastered, there's something there for everyone.

Hats off and three cheers for Jacque and the contributors who put those 
together!

It was a tremendous effort, and one that will benefit the community for 
years to come.

Thank you, Jacque, for having the vision and perseverence to pull that 
off, and the attention to detail to do it so well.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Sat Nov 26 16:52:50 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 16:52:50 -0500
Subject: Graphic Design Tools
Message-ID: <web-339693593@mail.maclaunch.com>

Us cheap-jacks use GIMP: takes a while to get used to - but
it is worth the work; and, fac it, the price is fantastic!

I use GIMP on Mac OS X and Ubuntu Linux.

GIMP is now available for MAC OS X without having to fool
around with X11.

sincerely, Richmond

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From michaell at unimelb.edu.au  Fri Nov 25 17:04:28 2005
From: michaell at unimelb.edu.au (Michael Lew)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 09:04:28 +1100
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <20051126180005.D6EE78254D9@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051126180005.D6EE78254D9@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <5754B26B-A98D-40DA-86AB-D6CFA90C3B6F@unimelb.edu.au>

For some time I have been toying with the idea that software should  
be sold on an income-weighted pricing scheme. If Richard can afford  
to pay more for Rev than Andre, it is in large part because he lives  
and earns in USA rather than Brazil.

I have a couple of educational titles being sold by my University  
that cost the same number of Australian dollars to Harvard as they do  
to universities in Africa. It doesn't seem fair. Perhaps software  
prices could be adjusted for the average (modal) wage in a country.  
It wouldn't harm me for people in low wage countries to pay me almost  
nothing instead of absolutely nothing...


> On Nov 26, 2005, at 2:12 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>
>
>> Personally, I think Rev is priced too low.
>>
>>
>
>
And Andre replied:

> Shhhhh... don't talk that too loud, I am trying to sum some money to
> buy a new license and pounds are expensive ;-)
>


Regards,
Michael



From martyknapp at comcast.net  Sat Nov 26 17:20:00 2005
From: martyknapp at comcast.net (Marty Knapp)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:20:00 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <5754B26B-A98D-40DA-86AB-D6CFA90C3B6F@unimelb.edu.au>
References: <20051126180005.D6EE78254D9@mail.runrev.com>
	<5754B26B-A98D-40DA-86AB-D6CFA90C3B6F@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <4388DF90.1080100@comcast.net>

Michael Lew wrote:

> For some time I have been toying with the idea that software should  
> be sold on an income-weighted pricing scheme. If Richard can afford  
> to pay more for Rev than Andre, it is in large part because he lives  
> and earns in USA rather than Brazil.
>
> I have a couple of educational titles being sold by my University  
> that cost the same number of Australian dollars to Harvard as they do  
> to universities in Africa. It doesn't seem fair. Perhaps software  
> prices could be adjusted for the average (modal) wage in a country.  
> It wouldn't harm me for people in low wage countries to pay me almost  
> nothing instead of absolutely nothing...
>
I don't currently make money from writing software -  I make utilities 
for my own use. But if I did sell software I don't think I'd be 
interested in getting paid 3rd world wages (no offense intended - just 
don't know another way to say it) and paying U.S. rates for my housing, 
food etc. If you're rich and don't care, you can give your software 
away. I'm sure many of the pros on this list who make money programming, 
program because they like doing so. I'm sure the RunRev people love what 
they do. But we all have bills to pay too.

When someone sets a price on a piece of software, I get to decide if 
that's worth my money. I don't figure it's their job to make sure I can 
afford it -  they don't owe me a thing (which is the attitude that 
socialism breeds IMHO, sorry to digress into politics!). Certainly it's 
noble to want to see everyone have access to good software. But having 
directed a local soup kitchen for 6 years, I can tell you there are 
people in the U.S. who are desperately poor. Who would administrate a 
system that would charge based on income? I think I would always be VERY 
poor when I went to make my purchases!


Marty Knapp


From alex at tweedly.net  Sat Nov 26 17:35:56 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:35:56 +0000
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <B67E11A1-3BE7-4C2E-8FE8-BA94373A28E4@danshafer.com>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>	<61FEEAF4-47A6-49F9-992D-0386D8E9A2B0@writeme.com>
	<B67E11A1-3BE7-4C2E-8FE8-BA94373A28E4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <4388E34C.70606@tweedly.net>

Dan Shafer wrote:

> But, as with others who have offered this viewpoint, I am compelled  
> to ask you to provide even one example of a development tool company  
> following the strategy you describe below that you say is "being used  
> by the most successful companies today."
>
> And I'll expand on that a bit. Not only can I not think of a single  
> *development tool* company following the strategy of trying to serve  
> two markets with a single product, I can't even come up with a single  
> successful software company doing that. 

I think I'd count Adobe - Photoshop and Photoshop Elements.

I think they're both variants of the same basic product - you might even 
want to call Elements a "cut-down, crippled version of Photoshop" - but 
it seems to me like they are basically the same product / same code base.

> So where are these software companies that are following this two- 
> market strategy successfully? To the contrary, I think the secret to  
> a successful company -- in any sphere -- is focus. Do what you do  
> well and let others do the stuff you don't do well. If RunRev had a  
> couple hundred people, *maybe* they could figure out how to serve  
> both markets with great success. Short of that, I am unconvinced.
>
If they could figure this out, maybe they *could* have a couple of 
hundred people :-)


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date: 25/11/2005



From frny4x at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 26 17:40:06 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:40:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <B4D051B4-1F7A-4001-9420-45E101AB54B6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <20051126224006.67015.qmail@web32805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Borland.  I can't swear they still do it to this day, but in recent years, they
  were doing Learning Editions that had lots of function, but you couldn't
  legally sell apps built with it.
   
  But, seeing how much dialog this generated, I really I wish I never started
  the thread.  :)
   
  Peace!   :)

Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:
  Frank.....

Can you give us an example or two of where this pricing is common 
among development tools? I see feature-crippled and time-limited 
evaluation licensing all the time, but I can't honestly think of a 
single development tool that has a free learning edition that you 
upgrade to so you can deploy apps.

Also, with an environment like Rev, the distinction between "deploy 
as a standalone" and "deploy as a stack" is badly blurred by the fact 
that: (a) anyone with a RunRev tool (and in your scenario that would 
include anyone who wanted to download it) can run any stack anyone 
else creates, at least conceptually; and (b) there are at least two 
free players available that would allow the owner of a 0-cost 
"learning edition" to distribute (and presumably therefore sell) 
products that run in either the IDE or the players without paying a 
dime for the tool. That is a good way to sink the tool company.

On Nov 26, 2005, at 2:35 AM, Frank R wrote:

> This type of Learning Edition pricing is actually common - and well 
> received.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
  



From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sat Nov 26 17:42:53 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:42:53 -0500
Subject: Graphic Design Tools
In-Reply-To: <web-339693593@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339693593@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <62A938AE-B5DE-4845-8BB4-2238D3C37636@conncoll.edu>

?? Not according to
	http://www.gimp.org/macintosh/
Where'd you see it?

Charles Hartman

On Nov 26, 2005, at 4:52 PM, Mathewson wrote:

>
> GIMP is now available for MAC OS X without having to fool
> around with X11.



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 17:49:19 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 08:49:19 +1000
Subject: Kudos to Jacque for the Script Conferences
In-Reply-To: <4388D9FA.9040004@fourthworld.com>
References: <4388D9FA.9040004@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511261449y2fdc17d7p1e0e8bfe4d92dcaf@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/27/05, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> This morning was the last of 16 installments of the Scripting
> Conferences organized by Jacque Gay with the help of RunRev and more
> than a dozen scripting experts (and one slacker who did the session on
> the Message Hierarchy <g>).
>
> I can only imagine how much work it takes to pull off a project like
> that, but we can all see the excellent results firsthand:
>
> <http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences/>
>
> On that page you can downkload 16 stacks covering a great many details
> on the most important aspects of learning and using Transcript.
>
> Whether you're just getting started learning Rev, or are a seasoned pro
> looking to brush up on some aspects of the language you haven't yet
> mastered, there's something there for everyone.
>
> Hats off and three cheers for Jacque and the contributors who put those
> together!
>
> It was a tremendous effort, and one that will benefit the community for
> years to come.
>
> Thank you, Jacque, for having the vision and perseverence to pull that
> off, and the attention to detail to do it so well.

I heartily agree with Richard's comments. Many thanks &
congratulations to Jacque.

They were fun to do as well, with Jacque's wonderful template stack
and her kind words of wisdom & encouragement.

Cheers,
Sarah


From soapdog at mac.com  Sat Nov 26 17:50:08 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 20:50:08 -0200
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <5754B26B-A98D-40DA-86AB-D6CFA90C3B6F@unimelb.edu.au>
References: <20051126180005.D6EE78254D9@mail.runrev.com>
	<5754B26B-A98D-40DA-86AB-D6CFA90C3B6F@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <3E0A9F7A-D99E-4A87-9141-EC7F7A52E788@mac.com>


On Nov 25, 2005, at 8:04 PM, Michael Lew wrote:

> For some time I have been toying with the idea that software should  
> be sold on an income-weighted pricing scheme. If Richard can afford  
> to pay more for Rev than Andre, it is in large part because he  
> lives and earns in USA rather than Brazil.
>
> I have a couple of educational titles being sold by my University  
> that cost the same number of Australian dollars to Harvard as they  
> do to universities in Africa. It doesn't seem fair. Perhaps  
> software prices could be adjusted for the average (modal) wage in a  
> country. It wouldn't harm me for people in low wage countries to  
> pay me almost nothing instead of absolutely nothing...
>

That's very hard. my incomme is lower than the US Standard, but  
RunRev expenses are higher than Brazilian expenses.... I cannot  
expect to pay with discount when they spend that much money  
developing the thing. It's not that hard to pay for Rev, specially  
Studio. Couple contract works get that going, the hard part is  
bootstrap your "enterprize". If you don't have a development  
enviroment then acquiring the contract works is somewhat hard, but  
after you get that initial steps going... it's not that hard.

so I think Rev is more expensive for those building their own tools  
than it is for those doing contract work...

andre

From frny4x at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 26 17:56:09 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:56:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Trying to change the subject ... :) ... Docs / Videos / Speed Of
	Thought book
In-Reply-To: <4388E34C.70606@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <20051126225609.80928.qmail@web32801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm still looking for more docs, and I might have to open up my empty pockets to get them.  :)
   
  The videos were great - until they got cut off at the so called advanced topics.
  Do those videos become available to me  if/when  I plunk down my $99?
   
  Do you have the Speed Of Thought book?   I'm an advanced developer - who's an obvious beginner with this tool.  Is that book for me?   I'm looking for an O'Reilly-type 
  book for Dreamcard, not a hold-my-hand-while-we-walk-through-the-IDE-with-lots-of-pretty-screen-shots-and-cute-jokes book.  Which one is Speed Of Thought?
   
  Thanks.


From ale870 at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 18:26:53 2005
From: ale870 at gmail.com (Alessandro Manotti)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 00:26:53 +0100
Subject: Use Ms Windows DLL
Message-ID: <f54296680511261526x587472ay155b9556fce76eaa@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

can someone help me to understand how to use a Windows DLL in RunRev?

I cannot find the exact function to load a library and use the
functions contained inside.  :-(

Thank you!


From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Sat Nov 26 18:50:57 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 18:50:57 -0500
Subject: Graphic Design Tools
Message-ID: <web-339697474@mail.maclaunch.com>

I stated in a previous post that the current Mac OS X
version of the GIMP does not require X11.

I was wrong - and I am sorry if this gave anyone false
hope!

Notwithstanding this, I find the GIMP is an excellent
graphic design tool.

There was (2001) a native Cocoa version of GIMP - but it
was commercial and never got beyond version 0.1

sincerely, Richmond
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Nov 26 19:03:26 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 18:03:26 -0600
Subject: Kudos to Jacque for the Script Conferences
In-Reply-To: <4388D9FA.9040004@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BFAE53EE.307A5%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/26/05 3:56 PM, "Richard Gaskin" <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:

> Hats off and three cheers for Jacque and the contributors who put those
> together!

Hear hear!  

> It was a tremendous effort, and one that will benefit the community for
> years to come.

I could not agree more.

> Thank you, Jacque, for having the vision and perseverence to pull that
> off, and the attention to detail to do it so well.

Indeed, and a personal "thank you" for chasing us all down and getting us to
get our stacks in... :-)


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Sat Nov 26 19:15:51 2005
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 20:15:51 -0400
Subject: There was an error connecting to the database
In-Reply-To: <7EF1B5A7-785C-4AD3-892D-CC1045F55244@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <BFAE72F7.1282B%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

Does anyone know how to trouble shoot "there was an error connecting to the
database"? I must have an automatic database connection somewhere that I
don't use which is set-up wrong. Is there some kind of debugger message that
I can set to turn on before everything else that would then put in the
message box where this database connection is that it is trying?



            |    |    |
           )_)  )_)  )_)
          )___))___))___)\
         )____)____)_____)\\
       _____|____|____|____\\\__
-------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
 ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
       ^^^^      ^^^

24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (787) 809-8426

Blue Water Maritime
P.O. Box 91
Puerto Real, PR 00740





From michaell at unimelb.edu.au  Fri Nov 25 19:45:26 2005
From: michaell at unimelb.edu.au (Michael Lew)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 11:45:26 +1100
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <20051126221351.B227F8254F6@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051126221351.B227F8254F6@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <C4A989F7-D81B-448C-8B91-C63D245272DF@unimelb.edu.au>


On 27/11/2005, at 9:13 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com  
wrote:

>> I have a couple of educational titles being sold by my University
>> that cost the same number of Australian dollars to Harvard as they do
>> to universities in Africa. It doesn't seem fair. Perhaps software
>> prices could be adjusted for the average (modal) wage in a country.
>> It wouldn't harm me for people in low wage countries to pay me almost
>> nothing instead of absolutely nothing...
>>
>>
> I don't currently make money from writing software -  I make utilities
> for my own use. But if I did sell software I don't think I'd be
> interested in getting paid 3rd world wages (no offense intended - just
> don't know another way to say it) and paying U.S. rates for my  
> housing,
> food etc.

Making your software available at locally-affordable rates should not  
influence your ability to charge appropriate amounts in your country.  
Locally-affordable would be higher in the USA than in Brazil, and  
higher in Brazil than in Zaire.

> If you're rich and don't care, you can give your software
> away. I'm sure many of the pros on this list who make money  
> programming,
> program because they like doing so. I'm sure the RunRev people love  
> what
> they do. But we all have bills to pay too.
>
> When someone sets a price on a piece of software, I get to decide if
> that's worth my money.

You've missed the point. If you only use a US-centric view of  
economic values then you leave out most of the people alive. What is  
offensive about asking a locally-affordable price for a product that  
has no cost for reproduction once produced?

>  I don't figure it's their job to make sure I can
> afford it -  they don't owe me a thing (which is the attitude that
> socialism breeds IMHO, sorry to digress into politics!).

Given how we have gotten to the current world financial model, it  
would be more likely that we owe them than they owe us! Remember that  
the unequal distribution of wealth has come from the unequal  
distribution of power, not the unequal distribution of worth. It  
serves the ruling minority interests to equate means and success with  
moral worth, but we should be able to see beyond it.

> Certainly it's
> noble to want to see everyone have access to good software. But having
> directed a local soup kitchen for 6 years, I can tell you there are
> people in the U.S. who are desperately poor. Who would administrate a
> system that would charge based on income? I think I would always be  
> VERY
> poor when I went to make my purchases!
>
>
> Marty Knapp

I hope that you are kidding about that last comment, or at least  
exaggerating to illustrate a possible abuse of the proposed system.  
At the moment, in your country and mine, the very wealthy pay very  
little tax. The inevitability of abuse and loopholes should not be  
taken as a reason not to attempt to improve something.

Regards,


From see3d at writeme.com  Sat Nov 26 20:40:29 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 20:40:29 -0500
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <B67E11A1-3BE7-4C2E-8FE8-BA94373A28E4@danshafer.com>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>
	<61FEEAF4-47A6-49F9-992D-0386D8E9A2B0@writeme.com>
	<B67E11A1-3BE7-4C2E-8FE8-BA94373A28E4@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <3EE1F07C-2C2B-40F3-9065-0D85039ADDFD@writeme.com>

Dan,

I know you qualified that as *development* tool, but I am just  
thinking *tool*.  I don't look at Dream Card differently than  
Elements, or a low end CAD tool, or an outliner...  All are  
"consumer" tools to me.  I look at the utility of each to me to solve  
one type of problem.  Being a hobbyist, I use a lot of different  
tools, but not at the same time.  In fact, the reason I buy a tool is  
because I have just one project that I need the tool for.  I might  
use Rev like crazy for a few months, then not use it at all for a  
year, then back at it again.  I also have a lot of woodworking  
tools.  I buy the lowest cost tool that will do a reasonable job,  
then If I wear it out, or find it is the most used tool, I will  
replace it with a professional grade one.  If I were to go for the  
professional grade software, or wood working tool in everything I  
have, I would have to spend $100K in tools and if it were all  
software tools, $30K/year in upgrades  --that isn't going to happen!   
However, If I really got into Rev and was going to generate income  
with it, I would upgrade to a Professional version --just as I would  
with any other tool that warranted it.

I see examples of the multi price point tool products from successful  
companies everywhere.

When I buy a table saw, darned if they don't all have a similar user  
interface.  Expectations also change with the size of the  
investment.  If my cheap $100 saw (which lacks some features of the  
expensive one and comes with a short warranty) breaks, I try to fix  
it, or junk it.  Whereas, if my expensive saw breaks, the manufacture  
better damn sure get their asses in gear and get this tool fixed now  
--and they do!

In the case of RR, I think they are taking the right approach.  They  
primarily listen to and support the professional customers --exactly  
right, that gives them focus.  They maintain one interface and code  
base across their products --essential for limiting the incremental  
work involved in the lower priced products, since the company is too  
small to support multiple efforts.  Since Rev is complex to fully  
learn all the features, Hobby programmers that grow into  
professionals, do not have to start over in the learning curve.  I  
just can't think of a better planned way of doing this with the size  
that RR is now.

Being the type of customer that (if I weren't retired) could  
potentially turn Pro, I can speak from how I view these products.  I  
view the RR product line in a favorable light, but Transcript is rich  
and complex.  The biggest roadblock I see is making the documentation  
into something that captures the wisdom of this list that can be  
searched with only a concept of the problem to be solved instead of  
what the solution is called by someone else.  It is too big a project  
for RR to tackle.  It can only be done by this list.  But that is  
another thread on another list.

BTW, in the early 70's I was a freelance consultant for early Intel  
8008 based product developers.  I wrote an 8008 emulator for a  
minicomputer that I designed, and ran Intel's development tools on  
it.  I could turn around compiles 10 times faster than my customers  
using Intel's native development tools.  I provided hardware or  
software consulting.  The thrust of my consulting was to provide  
initial solutions, then provide the training to the customer's  
engineers to take over the project as soon as possible (I had my own  
products to develop, but needed to generate additional cash from  
consulting).  So my perspective does span a broader range than just  
the inventive hobbyist.

Dennis

On Nov 26, 2005, at 3:24 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Dennis....
>
> A well-thought-out and appreciated post.
>
> But, as with others who have offered this viewpoint, I am compelled  
> to ask you to provide even one example of a development tool  
> company following the strategy you describe below that you say is  
> "being used by the most successful companies today."
> And I'll expand on that a bit. Not only can I not think of a single  
> *development tool* company following the strategy of trying to  
> serve two markets with a single product, I can't even come up with  
> a single successful software company doing that. When I think of  
> successful software companies in the desktop universe, I think of:
>
> Microsoft
> Adobe
> Macromedia (about to be swallowed by Adobe if that hasn't been  
> finalized yet)
> Apple (partly)
> Real
> Maybe Oracle (which is a dev tools vendor in large part, but not  
> much on the desktop)
>
> Adobe doesn't have a low-cost entry version of Acrobat or inDesign.  
> A trial version, yes, but when it expires you pay through the nose  
> to keep using it. Same with Macromedia. Apple supports low- and  
> high-end users in a couple of its strategic markets, but with two  
> separate products, not a low-cost version of the high-priced one.  
> Real has a free player but if you want to start creating Real media  
> streams you're gonna pay a bundle.
>
> So where are these software companies that are following this two- 
> market strategy successfully? To the contrary, I think the secret  
> to a successful company -- in any sphere -- is focus. Do what you  
> do well and let others do the stuff you don't do well. If RunRev  
> had a couple hundred people, *maybe* they could figure out how to  
> serve both markets with great success. Short of that, I am  
> unconvinced.
>
> On Nov 26, 2005, at 8:52 AM, Dennis Brown wrote:
>
>> I think that they are more likely to stay in business with the  
>> current model --it is the model being used by the most successful  
>> companies today.  They are growing (I assume) slowly as the  
>> product matures.  At some point I expect this model is going to  
>> propel them forward into a larger company that can offer better  
>> general support and product bug fixes (I think bugs cost more to  
>> fix than adding minor new features), while continuing to support  
>> the professionals needs.



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sat Nov 26 20:48:38 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:48:38 -0800
Subject: Player use
In-Reply-To: <20051126172621.75679.qmail@web32812.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BFAE5076.26994%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently,Frank R wrote:

> Ok, why can I play a MIDI file using a player copied to a window, but I can't
> play a MIDI file using the play command.  Using the play command, I get a nice
> screech, leading me to believe it is interpreting the MIDI file as an audio
> file of some form.

I believe this is because Rev cannot *natively* play MIDI.  You must either
use a player, which utilizes the system's bulit-in media technology (default
is QuickTime, but can also be WMP on Windows if QT is not available).  Or
you must use an external.  Rev's play command is intended for a small set of
audio formats, including WAV.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Nov 26 20:56:01 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:56:01 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <20051126224006.67015.qmail@web32805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051126224006.67015.qmail@web32805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <40117942412.20051126175601@ahsoftware.net>

Frank-

Saturday, November 26, 2005, 2:40:06 PM, you wrote:

> Borland.  I can't swear they still do it to this day, but in recent years, they
>   were doing Learning Editions that had lots of function, but you couldn't
>   legally sell apps built with it.

Borland makes their 5.0 compiler freely available to do with what you
want, but that's rather like saying you can use MetaCard today without
the rev IDE.

>   But, seeing how much dialog this generated, I really I wish I never started
>   the thread.  :)
   
Not so. This topic comes up once a year or so, and I think it's a good
discussion to have, just to get it done again. I've got my own ideas
of how I'd run things if I were in charge, and fortunately for all
concerned I'm not the CEO of runrev, so nobody has to deal with them.
My hat's off to Kevin and crew for keeping things rolling, and I'm
glad that the headaches are theirs to deal with and not mine.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From see3d at writeme.com  Sat Nov 26 20:52:34 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 20:52:34 -0500
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <C4A989F7-D81B-448C-8B91-C63D245272DF@unimelb.edu.au>
References: <20051126221351.B227F8254F6@mail.runrev.com>
	<C4A989F7-D81B-448C-8B91-C63D245272DF@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <D8DFA17F-4580-4D72-898D-7AFE76A7A12A@writeme.com>


On Nov 25, 2005, at 7:45 PM, Michael Lew wrote:

> At the moment, in your country and mine, the very wealthy pay very  
> little tax.

The top 1% earners in the US pay 34% of the taxes.
The top 5% earners in the US pay 54% of the taxes.
The top 50% earners in the US pay 97% of the taxes.

If a wealthy person here is not paying much tax, it means they are  
likely going to not be wealthy much longer.

Dennis


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Nov 26 21:00:19 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 18:00:19 -0800
Subject: Kudos to Jacque for the Script Conferences
In-Reply-To: <4388D9FA.9040004@fourthworld.com>
References: <4388D9FA.9040004@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <4118200082.20051126180019@ahsoftware.net>

Richard-

Saturday, November 26, 2005, 1:56:10 PM, you wrote:

> Hats off and three cheers for Jacque and the contributors who put those
> together!

Indeed. Jacque made it easy and fun to put together the conferences
and provided the needed support along the way, in addition to
archiving the conference logs and making them available.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From capellan2000 at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 26 20:56:37 2005
From: capellan2000 at yahoo.com (Alejandro Tejada)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:56:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <20051126202719.BABAE825305@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <20051127015637.6338.qmail@web36509.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

on Sat, 26 Nov 2005 
Dan Shafer wrote:

> Can you give us an example or two of where this 
> pricing is common among development tools? 
> I see feature-crippled and time-limited  
> evaluation licensing all the time, but 
> I can't honestly think of a single development 
> tool that has a free learning edition that you  
> upgrade to so you can deploy apps.

Hi Dan,

Does Maya Personal Learning Edition
qualify in this category of development tool?

<http://www.alias.com/glb/eng/products-services/product_details.jsp?productId=1900003>

Maya Personal Learning Edition
is a complete tool for the complex
Maya Animation System, but uses an
special file format that could not
be opened in the Professional Versions
of Maya.

Could RunRev create a special stack file format 
that do not open in the full versions of DreamCard 
or Revolution? I think that the answer is yes...

Could this make happy many people?

al


Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/


		
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Yahoo! Music Unlimited 
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. 
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From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Nov 26 21:04:51 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 18:04:51 -0800
Subject: Kudos to Jacque for the Script Conferences
In-Reply-To: <4388D9FA.9040004@fourthworld.com>
References: <4388D9FA.9040004@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <96118472454.20051126180451@ahsoftware.net>

Richard-

Saturday, November 26, 2005, 1:56:10 PM, you wrote:

> This morning was the last of 16 installments of the Scripting 
> Conferences organized by Jacque Gay with the help of RunRev and more
> than a dozen scripting experts (and one slacker who did the session on
> the Message Hierarchy <g>).

...and my thanks to Alex Tweedly for cluing me in to the joys of
messageChunk(). I've been seriously neglecting that function.

I want to point out, though, now that I've been fiddling with it, that
the use of the (?.) function in regex is a *necessity* for parsing
text this way. It isn't listed in the documentation for the regex
commands, but it's what gets you past the linefeeds.

if messageChunk(someText, "(?.)<BODY>(.+)</BODY>", tStart, tEnd) then
  -- do something with the text here
end if

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sat Nov 26 21:05:13 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 20:05:13 -0600
Subject: Kudos to Jacque for the Script Conferences
In-Reply-To: <96118472454.20051126180451@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <BFAE7079.307BA%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/26/05 8:04 PM, "Mark Wieder" <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:

> Richard-
> 
> Saturday, November 26, 2005, 1:56:10 PM, you wrote:
> 
>> This morning was the last of 16 installments of the Scripting
>> Conferences organized by Jacque Gay with the help of RunRev and more
>> than a dozen scripting experts (and one slacker who did the session on
>> the Message Hierarchy <g>).
> 
> ...and my thanks to Alex Tweedly for cluing me in to the joys of
> messageChunk(). I've been seriously neglecting that function.

I think you meant matchChunk... but you're right - it's a wonderful
function.

> I want to point out, though, now that I've been fiddling with it, that
> the use of the (?.) function in regex is a *necessity* for parsing
> text this way. It isn't listed in the documentation for the regex
> commands, but it's what gets you past the linefeeds.

Really? I'd been using (?s) - do you know if it does the same thing?


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sat Nov 26 21:48:24 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 18:48:24 -0800
Subject: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail
Message-ID: <BFAE5E78.26FF7%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Sorry to put this OT subject on the list but I'm hoping to solicit some of
the more knowledgeable minds out there...

Over the last week I've been inundated (yet again) with a tidal wave of
bounced virus email messages.  Of course I did not initiate any of the
original messages -- I'm receiving the bounced attempts and server notices
as a result of virus propagation.

My ISP has spam filters and virus blocking which is fine for general
incoming email, and I use client-side filters as well, but the problem is
having to deal with messages that are being returned to me because viruses
messages are spoofing my domain.

I've written about 2 dozen rules on my end (Entourage) to weed out the bogus
email but with a recent outbreak I've received almost 7,000 messages in just
the last week.  These bounced messages are clogging my server and I need to
stay on email duty daily to clear them out.

Any suggestions on how to combat this problem?

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From frny4x at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 26 22:13:30 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:13:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <40117942412.20051126175601@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <20051127031330.14723.qmail@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I wasn't referring to the free and  old C++ available.  Recently, they had Learning Editions of All their current development tools - Delphi, C++, Kylix, Java.
  

mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
  Frank-

Saturday, November 26, 2005, 2:40:06 PM, you wrote:

> Borland. I can't swear they still do it to this day, but in recent years, they
> were doing Learning Editions that had lots of function, but you couldn't
> legally sell apps built with it.

Borland makes their 5.0 compiler freely available to do with what you
want, but that's rather like saying you can use MetaCard today without
the rev IDE.

> But, seeing how much dialog this generated, I really I wish I never started
> the thread. :)

Not so. This topic comes up once a year or so, and I think it's a good
discussion to have, just to get it done again. I've got my own ideas
of how I'd run things if I were in charge, and fortunately for all
concerned I'm not the CEO of runrev, so nobody has to deal with them.
My hat's off to Kevin and crew for keeping things rolling, and I'm
glad that the headaches are theirs to deal with and not mine.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
mwieder at ahsoftware.net

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use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
  



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sat Nov 26 22:51:56 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:51:56 -0800
Subject: Kudos to Jacque for the Script Conferences
In-Reply-To: <96118472454.20051126180451@ahsoftware.net>
References: <4388D9FA.9040004@fourthworld.com>
	<96118472454.20051126180451@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <67124897443.20051126195156@ahsoftware.net>


> if messageChunk(someText, "(?.)<BODY>(.+)</BODY>", tStart, tEnd) then
>   -- do something with the text here
> end if

...and, of course, that should be (?s) instead of (?.)

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net




From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Nov 26 23:22:07 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:22:07 -0600
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <7EF1B5A7-785C-4AD3-892D-CC1045F55244@danshafer.com>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>
	<7EF1B5A7-785C-4AD3-892D-CC1045F55244@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <4389346F.90502@chipp.com>


> I've been racking my brain the last 48 hours and I cannot come up  with 
> a single development tool company that has succeeded at doing  this 
> since Borland's very early days. I'd be delighted if someone  could 
> point me to a real exception to that rule, but absent that, I  maintain 
> my position. RunRev needs to decide whether it's going to  try to get 
> professional coders to switch to Rev or adopt it as a RAD  or 
> alternative tool, or go after the untapped market potential of the  
> Inventive User. Until it makes that decision and then permeates the  
> company and its policies with it, it will have difficulty being as  
> successful as it can.

I would have to say MM Flash is positioned at the beginner and very 
advanced users.

-Chipp



From chipp at chipp.com  Sat Nov 26 23:26:29 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:26:29 -0600
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <4388D497.5020501@fourthworld.com>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>	<7EF1B5A7-785C-4AD3-892D-CC1045F55244@danshafer.com>	<1DB4B959-98DB-4BEB-879E-030435AD7208@maseurope.net>	<62BEE3C1-C57E-4182-9275-3814B453DC7C@openpartnership.net>	<4388D11A.1060507@fourthworld.com>	<EE7EF378-0C2C-421F-BC74-D67D4EF7DA5D@openpartnership.net>
	<4388D497.5020501@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <43893575.20303@chipp.com>



Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Gray Matter used to be 
> that source, but they closed their doors many years ago, and today only 
> Macromedia themselves can afford to be the central repository.

Yeah, and the guy that ran Gray Matter was a crook. Took a bunch of 
money from us, and others. Turns out he's now wanted in many states. I 
was at a conference he was giving a talk at, and the police came and 
escorted him to jail. Couldn't stop from smiling.





From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sun Nov 27 00:23:11 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 21:23:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <4388D289.1010901@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511262117500.1228-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

It would be interesting to see some statistics from the company re:
regular, paying customers and per license type.  Perhaps the reality is
counter-intuitive, but to what extent does Rev have an "in" with the big
programming companies?

It seems a conundrum.  It would seem that the company has already tapped
all the low-hanging fruit of the HC/SC/hobbyist crowd, yet at the same
time does not seem poised to make big inroads in the programming community
at large.

Judy

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> It costs far more to acquire five new DreamCard customers than it does
> to simply renew an Enterprise license.



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sun Nov 27 00:49:16 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 21:49:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Graphic Design Tools
In-Reply-To: <web-339697474@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511262147580.1228-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Hmmm, but for really simple stuff (and the ability to translate from and
two ~75 or more graphic file formats), there's nothing like the shareware
program GraphicConverter:

http://www.lemkesoft.de

Love it...

It's no Photoshop, but if you don't quite need Photoshop and, in any
event, can't afford it...

Judy




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Nov 27 01:09:04 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:09:04 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <20051127031330.14723.qmail@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051127031330.14723.qmail@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <196133125634.20051126220904@ahsoftware.net>

Frank-

Saturday, November 26, 2005, 7:13:30 PM, you wrote:

> I wasn't referring to the free and  old C++ available.  Recently,
> they had Learning Editions of All their current development tools -
> Delphi, C++, Kylix, Java.
  
Well, let's see...

C++ Builder *30-day trial* version 6 is dated March 2002
The Kylix *trial* versions are dated from mid-2002 (version 3)
The JBuilder versions are current but only run for 30 days
Delphi Personal is not downloadable but is "available through select
publications", as is Borland C++ Builder Personal.

...or you can purchase Delphi starting at $1090 on up to $3490.
C++ Builder lists for $927 (pro) and $2117 (enterprise)
Entry level JBuilder is $499

Maybe you were thinking of Microsoft? They offered a "Learning
Edition" of VB at the student pricing of $50. Then end-of-lifed the
product.

Mind you, I like Borland's compilers. But the Turbo Pascal days, or
even the Turbo C days, are behind them now.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Nov 27 01:33:43 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 00:33:43 -0600
Subject: Kudos to Jacque for the Script Conferences
In-Reply-To: <4388D9FA.9040004@fourthworld.com>
References: <4388D9FA.9040004@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <43895347.7080706@hyperactivesw.com>

Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Thank you, Jacque, for having the vision and perseverence to pull that 
> off, and the attention to detail to do it so well.

What a kind thing to say, thanks so much. Ditto to Ken, Sarah, and Mark. 
It's true that the conferences were a major effort, but it was something 
I believed in very strongly and I wanted to do it. There was a need for 
a set of beginner tutorials and it was something I could help with. But 
none of it could have happened without the authors who worked so hard on 
their stacks and materials. We had a truly inspired set of knowledgeable 
people and everyone gave it their finest effort. So kudos to all of you 
too -- because we would have had nothing without you.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Nov 27 01:46:47 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:46:47 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <1DB4B959-98DB-4BEB-879E-030435AD7208@maseurope.net>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>
	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>
	<7EF1B5A7-785C-4AD3-892D-CC1045F55244@danshafer.com>
	<1DB4B959-98DB-4BEB-879E-030435AD7208@maseurope.net>
Message-ID: <841C7B22-97C6-43FB-8557-558B2FCB32BE@danshafer.com>

Good question, Mark.

I'm not sure RunRev is falling down with respect to either market at  
this point because neither market has yet reched the point where its  
demands pose a problem.

If you run through Bugzilla and this list I think you'd find that the  
vast majority of current users are inventive users (glad you like  
that phrase; I invented it back in the HyperCard heyday) and that  
among newcomers to Rev out of that audience there's generally a  
significant amount of initial confusion and consternation that only  
dissipates with some extensive exposure to the product. Until  
recently, I suspect most new Rev users were HyperRefugees, but I have  
a sense that in the recent past -- say the last six months or so --  
that has started to shift and more Inventive Users who are  
discovering Rev without an HC background are coming into the mix. As  
that happens, there will be even greater pressure on RunRev to find  
new ways of introducing these people to the concepts and uses of Rev.

I have always felt that RunRev ought to focus pretty exclusively on  
the Inventive User market and I've not only expounded that idea here,  
I've laid it out in some detail. I do not claim that I think this is  
a present issue, but I have a sense that it is going to become one as  
the market expands.

On Nov 26, 2005, at 1:03 PM, Mark Smith wrote:

> Dan, this is an innocent question, not intended to provoke or  
> contradict, but where do you think Rev is currently falling down  
> with regard to either pro developers or inventive users?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Nov 27 01:50:27 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:50:27 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <4388CE3A.80700@fourthworld.com>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>	<61FEEAF4-47A6-49F9-992D-0386D8E9A2B0@writeme.com>
	<B67E11A1-3BE7-4C2E-8FE8-BA94373A28E4@danshafer.com>
	<4388CE3A.80700@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <5BE6AA15-0111-4C66-9AFC-9342F41F918B@danshafer.com>

Richard....

On Nov 26, 2005, at 1:06 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Pros need pro tools, and even hobbysts aspire to professional- 
> looking results.  A strategy that appeals to the high end will  
> appeal to both.
>
Ultimately, that's probably true. It's another way of saying  
Inventive Users eventually become more like pros. But Inventive Users  
(hobbyists in your parlance) need hand-holding of a different type  
and depth at the beginning of their experience with Rev and that's  
where the problems arise.

> To the degree this is a result of focusing on the pro product maybe  
> that's not so bad.  My perspective is admittedly skewed, being  
> dependent on the pro product to manage the three businesses in  
> which I'm CTO:  I'd hate to see any slowdown of bug fixes or  
> feature enhancements in the engine to make a prettier entry-level  
> tool.

And you just put your finger on another problem for RunRev, didn't  
you? :-)

I maintain that without a significant improvement in the out-of-the- 
box experience for DC, the company will never reach broad enough  
appeal to reach critical mass among the Inventive User marketplace.  
But it's clear to both of us that if they divert resources to that  
task, development of the pro version will undoubtedly suffer at least  
delays. That's precisely the trade-off that they will ultimately have  
to make.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Nov 27 01:53:42 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:53:42 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <4388D289.1010901@fourthworld.com>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>	<7EF1B5A7-785C-4AD3-892D-CC1045F55244@danshafer.com>
	<5241746B-D6B7-4DF2-BC74-F0B0D86E715B@openpartnership.net>
	<4388D289.1010901@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <41C5A62E-704E-40FC-9BA8-B7B914F82280@danshafer.com>

You put your finger on it for me, Richard. I developed a detailed  
strategy for doing just this for another company (one that's no  
longer in business, not because they adopted my proposal) and have  
shared that with RunRev privately. There is a model I believe would  
work but it requires RunRev to focus *its* efforts 100% on the  
Inventive User market while both leveraging and honoring the pro  
developer base.

On Nov 26, 2005, at 1:24 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> I would wholeheartedly support a move by RunRev to spin off the pro  
> product to someone else if they find themselves too encumbered with  
> other considerations to handle it effectively.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Nov 27 01:54:56 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:54:56 -0800
Subject: Kudos to Jacque for the Script Conferences
In-Reply-To: <4388D9FA.9040004@fourthworld.com>
References: <4388D9FA.9040004@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <BE71A394-9729-4B5C-B178-F764A90A36DF@danshafer.com>

Here, here! Bravo! Well-done and badly needed.


On Nov 26, 2005, at 1:56 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Thank you, Jacque, for having the vision and perseverence to pull  
> that off, and the attention to detail to do it so well.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Nov 27 01:56:43 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 00:56:43 -0600
Subject: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail
In-Reply-To: <BFAE5E78.26FF7%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BFAE5E78.26FF7%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <438958AB.10801@hyperactivesw.com>

Scott Rossi wrote:

> Over the last week I've been inundated (yet again) with a tidal wave of
> bounced virus email messages.  Of course I did not initiate any of the
> original messages -- I'm receiving the bounced attempts and server notices
> as a result of virus propagation.

I am routinely inundated with these. Two weeks ago I accumulated 8 megs 
of bounced mail in 24 hours. Another rarely-used mailbox gets about ten 
of these a day.

> Any suggestions on how to combat this problem?

There's no way to stop it, of course. If you have spam filter control on 
your server, you can direct them to dev/null based on the subject, 
filtering on "returned mail" and "mail returned". The down side is that 
if you really do write to someone and it bounces, you'll never know.

What I do is filter on those two strings within my email program (rather 
than on the server,) directing them to a junk folder, and then scan 
through them occasionally to make sure they aren't from anyone I 
recognize. It's a pain no matter how you deal with it though.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jerry at hytext.com  Sun Nov 27 01:58:14 2005
From: jerry at hytext.com (Jerry Muelver)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 00:58:14 -0600
Subject: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail
References: <BFAE5E78.26FF7%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <000301c5f31f$f3a304d0$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3>

From: "Scott Rossi" <scott at tactilemedia.com>
Subject: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail


> Over the last week I've been inundated (yet again) with a tidal wave of
> bounced virus email messages.  Of course I did not initiate any of the
> original messages -- I'm receiving the bounced attempts and server notices
> as a result of virus propagation.
....
> Any suggestions on how to combat this problem?

Just set your filter to intercept any "returned" emails, and delete them 
from the server without downloading. If you aren't sending them out in the 
first place, why would you want to read the bogus bounce notices anyway?

---- Jerry 



From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Nov 27 01:58:58 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:58:58 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <5754B26B-A98D-40DA-86AB-D6CFA90C3B6F@unimelb.edu.au>
References: <20051126180005.D6EE78254D9@mail.runrev.com>
	<5754B26B-A98D-40DA-86AB-D6CFA90C3B6F@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <B9D34F95-637E-4EDE-9D5A-AB32C4A7D089@danshafer.com>

That's a wonderful sentiment and a princely idea, Michael. But it  
would pose a serious administrative nightmare, particularly for  
software downloaded over the Net where you can't even know where the  
buyer resides!

I have on more than one occasion made one of my products available to  
someone who emailed me privately and said they needed or wanted it  
but just couldn't afford it. Maybe if there were a clearing-house of  
some sort for Third World software needs, some kind of plan could be  
put into place.

But as others have said here in different ways -- and as you well  
know -- the total cost involved in providing software to a customer  
is often much larger than the initial fee. Support costs can kill  
you. And if your customers don't speak English as a primary language  
and are working on dialup systems at best, support could turn into a  
real sink hole.

On Nov 25, 2005, at 2:04 PM, Michael Lew wrote:

> I have a couple of educational titles being sold by my University  
> that cost the same number of Australian dollars to Harvard as they  
> do to universities in Africa. It doesn't seem fair. Perhaps  
> software prices could be adjusted for the average (modal) wage in a  
> country. It wouldn't harm me for people in low wage countries to  
> pay me almost nothing instead of absolutely nothing...



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Nov 27 02:00:09 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 23:00:09 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <4388E34C.70606@tweedly.net>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>	<61FEEAF4-47A6-49F9-992D-0386D8E9A2B0@writeme.com>
	<B67E11A1-3BE7-4C2E-8FE8-BA94373A28E4@danshafer.com>
	<4388E34C.70606@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <E010C347-9B41-4D22-A513-2AF3A36D5B18@danshafer.com>

I agree, Alex, but they remain two separate products. Last I checked,  
you can't buy Elements and then get credit for an upgrade to Photoshop.

In that way, they are similar to Apple's iMovie-Final Cut Pro and  
GarageBand-Logic Pro product mixes.


On Nov 26, 2005, at 2:35 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> I think I'd count Adobe - Photoshop and Photoshop Elements.
>
> I think they're both variants of the same basic product - you might  
> even want to call Elements a "cut-down, crippled version of  
> Photoshop" - but it seems to me like they are basically the same  
> product / same code base.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Nov 27 02:00:55 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 23:00:55 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <20051126224006.67015.qmail@web32805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051126224006.67015.qmail@web32805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <443EABDB-CE8F-440C-BF82-693407EDD19C@danshafer.com>

Frank...

On Nov 26, 2005, at 2:40 PM, Frank R wrote:

>  But, seeing how much dialog this generated, I really I wish I  
> never started
>   the thread.  :)

Why? This kind of dialog is helpful and meaningful and for a lot of  
us who develop in Rev, this is the only place we can discuss such  
topics!




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Nov 27 02:16:39 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 08:16:39 +0100
Subject: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail
In-Reply-To: <000301c5f31f$f3a304d0$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3>
Message-ID: <20051127063502.8081F824F7C@mail.runrev.com>

Scott

And I thought mac users were not affected by window viruses ;)

We get 80K viruses or spam hits a day at work... and the percentage of spam
hits is alluring! Virii are not negligent either...

Here's a few rules:

Virii:
Attachments, JavaScripts
Not sent to you
from address doesn't match the originators server domain or topsite url
Attachments: (exe, zip, rar, doc, vbs, wmi, etc...)

SPAM:
Not sent to you
from address doesn't match the originators server domain or topsite url
Title words do not match dictionary and some are obfuscated alphanumerics
Title words match spam dictionary (pharmacy, p1-lls, v1a-gra etc...

Now, people send jokes to their friends via the cc field (so spammers don't
catch the list full of new email addresses thanks to the careless jokers or
gullible chain letters responders)... 

What kind of server is this?

>  On Behalf Of Jerry Muelver

> From: "Scott Rossi" <scott at tactilemedia.com>
> Subject: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail
> 
> 
> > Over the last week I've been inundated (yet again) with a 
> tidal wave 
> > of bounced virus email messages.  Of course I did not 
> initiate any of 
> > the original messages -- I'm receiving the bounced attempts 
> and server 
> > notices as a result of virus propagation.
> ....
> > Any suggestions on how to combat this problem?
> 
> Just set your filter to intercept any "returned" emails, and 
> delete them from the server without downloading. If you 
> aren't sending them out in the first place, why would you 
> want to read the bogus bounce notices anyway?
> 
> ---- Jerry 



From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Nov 27 02:16:19 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 23:16:19 -0800
Subject: Trying to change the subject ... :) ... Docs / Videos / Speed
	Of Thought book
In-Reply-To: <20051126225609.80928.qmail@web32801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051126225609.80928.qmail@web32801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C9249E7B-A4A6-4B15-A18A-D991D112A584@danshafer.com>

As the author of the work in question, I'm probably not entirely  
objective, but my *hope* is that my book is a lot more like an  
O'Reilly title than it is a walkthrough of the IDE. In fact, it  
doesn't even include an IDE walk-through.

OTOH, it is certainly not for the experienced professional Rev coder,  
but rather for beginning to intermediate developers.

In fact, I've had this question come up a few times so tonight I  
uploaded the Preface to my main Rev site as a free download. You can  
read the Preface and get an idea who I wrote the book for and what it  
includes.

http://www.revolutionpros.com

Click on "My Stuff".

On Nov 26, 2005, at 2:56 PM, Frank R wrote:

>   Do you have the Speed Of Thought book?   I'm an advanced  
> developer - who's an obvious beginner with this tool.  Is that book  
> for me?   I'm looking for an O'Reilly-type
>   book for Dreamcard, not a hold-my-hand-while-we-walk-through-the- 
> IDE-with-lots-of-pretty-screen-shots-and-cute-jokes book.  Which  
> one is Speed Of Thought?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Nov 27 02:21:35 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 23:21:35 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <4389346F.90502@chipp.com>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>
	<7EF1B5A7-785C-4AD3-892D-CC1045F55244@danshafer.com>
	<4389346F.90502@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <060846C9-2A4C-4863-8A39-4FB168345B02@danshafer.com>

Chipp....

I would have agreed until the last two revs. I am not personally  
acquainted with the situation, but several friends of mine who teach  
and study multimedia development at our local university have  
complained bitterly to me in the past year about how MM has made  
development in Flash all but inaccessible to folks who don't grok  
scripting. I'm not sure how they've managed to do this -- or if it's  
just a perception -- but it's hurt them in this university curriculum.

OTOH, that group is now investigating Rev, so all is not lost!

On Nov 26, 2005, at 8:22 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

>
>> I've been racking my brain the last 48 hours and I cannot come up   
>> with a single development tool company that has succeeded at  
>> doing  this since Borland's very early days. I'd be delighted if  
>> someone  could point me to a real exception to that rule, but  
>> absent that, I  maintain my position. RunRev needs to decide  
>> whether it's going to  try to get professional coders to switch to  
>> Rev or adopt it as a RAD  or alternative tool, or go after the  
>> untapped market potential of the  Inventive User. Until it makes  
>> that decision and then permeates the  company and its policies  
>> with it, it will have difficulty being as  successful as it can.
>
> I would have to say MM Flash is positioned at the beginner and very  
> advanced users.
>
> -Chipp
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Nov 27 02:22:22 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 23:22:22 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <43893575.20303@chipp.com>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>	<7EF1B5A7-785C-4AD3-892D-CC1045F55244@danshafer.com>	<1DB4B959-98DB-4BEB-879E-030435AD7208@maseurope.net>	<62BEE3C1-C57E-4182-9275-3814B453DC7C@openpartnership.net>	<4388D11A.1060507@fourthworld.com>	<EE7EF378-0C2C-421F-BC74-D67D4EF7DA5D@openpartnership.net>
	<4388D497.5020501@fourthworld.com> <43893575.20303@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <0681DDB4-E93A-4F74-81A6-C26D0191CA20@danshafer.com>

Really? Man, I knew that guy when he was at Macromedia. I can't  
remember his name off hand, but that's a startling story.

Dan

On Nov 26, 2005, at 8:26 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

>
>
> Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> Gray Matter used to be that source, but they closed their doors  
>> many years ago, and today only Macromedia themselves can afford to  
>> be the central repository.
>
> Yeah, and the guy that ran Gray Matter was a crook. Took a bunch of  
> money from us, and others. Turns out he's now wanted in many  
> states. I was at a conference he was giving a talk at, and the  
> police came and escorted him to jail. Couldn't stop from smiling.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Nov 27 02:24:48 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 23:24:48 -0800
Subject: Graphic Design Tools
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511262147580.1228-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511262147580.1228-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <A797AA1B-58AF-4A05-9FEF-86FE96BF1B14@danshafer.com>

Judy....

Wow.

Would you believe this?

I've owned a GraphicConverter license for years and I never knew it  
could create or modify graphics. All I've ever used it for is  
converting from one format to another!

::Sound of open palm smiting forehead::

I just opened it and I actually think I could learn to use it to do  
all the graphic stuff I've always said I didn't know how to do.

I owe you a Latte (or other non-alcoholic drink of your choice) next  
time you're in Monterey (who knows when THAT might be, hmmmmmm?).

;-)

On Nov 26, 2005, at 9:49 PM, Judy Perry wrote:

> Hmmm, but for really simple stuff (and the ability to translate  
> from and
> two ~75 or more graphic file formats), there's nothing like the  
> shareware
> program GraphicConverter:
>
> http://www.lemkesoft.de
>
> Love it...
>
> It's no Photoshop, but if you don't quite need Photoshop and, in any
> event, can't afford it...
>
> Judy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Nov 27 02:32:50 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 23:32:50 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <5BE6AA15-0111-4C66-9AFC-9342F41F918B@danshafer.com>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>	<61FEEAF4-47A6-49F9-992D-0386D8E9A2B0@writeme.com>	<B67E11A1-3BE7-4C2E-8FE8-BA94373A28E4@danshafer.com>	<4388CE3A.80700@fourthworld.com>
	<5BE6AA15-0111-4C66-9AFC-9342F41F918B@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <43896122.2030508@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:
> I maintain that without a significant improvement in the out-of-the- box 
> experience for DC, the company will never reach broad enough  appeal to 
> reach critical mass among the Inventive User marketplace.

One can hope.

Another reason the readers of this list are glad I have no control over 
the product:  I feel Rev is too valuable to share too broadly, a 
strategic competitive advantage I would prefer to keep among my clients 
and my friends' clients.

Tarting it all over town for just $99 gives too much away.

;)

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Nov 27 02:42:31 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 23:42:31 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <060846C9-2A4C-4863-8A39-4FB168345B02@danshafer.com>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>	<7EF1B5A7-785C-4AD3-892D-CC1045F55244@danshafer.com>	<4389346F.90502@chipp.com>
	<060846C9-2A4C-4863-8A39-4FB168345B02@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <43896367.1070302@fourthworld.com>

Dan Shafer wrote regarding Flash:
> I would have agreed until the last two revs. I am not personally  
> acquainted with the situation, but several friends of mine who teach  
> and study multimedia development at our local university have  
> complained bitterly to me in the past year about how MM has made  
> development in Flash all but inaccessible to folks who don't grok  
> scripting. I'm not sure how they've managed to do this -- or if it's  
> just a perception -- but it's hurt them in this university curriculum.

And yet while those inventive users suffer, there were never enough of 
them to keep Adobe LiveMotion alive.

As Scott Rossi can attest and I'll toss in a hearty "Amen!", LiveMotion 
was truly "Flash for the rest of us."  Everyone who ever spent more than 
20 minutes with both agreed that LiveMotion was far more accessible. 
Borrowing the best of After Effects' award-winning timeline, LiveMotion 
made simple and immediate sense out of so many things that were insanely 
arcane in Flash.  It didn't offer the full range of dynamic programming 
capabilities as Flash had, but LiveMotion made short work of animations 
and basic interactivity, certainly enough to handle much of what Flash 
is commonly used for.

But at the end of the day, Adobe couldn't find enough users who didn't 
prefer the more professionally-oriented Flash to justify keeping 
LiveMotion alive.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Nov 27 02:52:57 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 08:52:57 +0100
Subject: Graphic Design Tools
In-Reply-To: <A797AA1B-58AF-4A05-9FEF-86FE96BF1B14@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <20051127071119.2FFD082563E@mail.runrev.com>


I too still cherish my Lemke CD - I should frame it! 
Best shareware out there for graphics... 

For the story, thanks to GraphickConverter I translated some thousands of
images from my mac to my PC, including icons or to ico format. 

PowerFull Tool - paint tools where not as nice as Adobe's bigger program but
for the price and footprint, nothing came close to it!

For PCs, I recommend ACDSee - ultrafast browser, powerful catalog and nice
editor. Photoshop still rules...

cheers
X

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Dan Shafer
> Sent: Sunday, 27 November, 2005 08:25
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Graphic Design Tools
> 
> Judy....
> 
> Wow.
> 
> Would you believe this?
> 
> I've owned a GraphicConverter license for years and I never 
> knew it could create or modify graphics. All I've ever used 
> it for is converting from one format to another!
> 
> ::Sound of open palm smiting forehead::
> 
> I just opened it and I actually think I could learn to use it 
> to do all the graphic stuff I've always said I didn't know how to do.
> 
> I owe you a Latte (or other non-alcoholic drink of your 
> choice) next time you're in Monterey (who knows when THAT 
> might be, hmmmmmm?).
> 
> ;-)
> 
> On Nov 26, 2005, at 9:49 PM, Judy Perry wrote:
> 
> > Hmmm, but for really simple stuff (and the ability to 
> translate from 
> > and two ~75 or more graphic file formats), there's nothing like the 
> > shareware program GraphicConverter:
> >
> > http://www.lemkesoft.de
> >
> > Love it...
> >
> > It's no Photoshop, but if you don't quite need Photoshop 
> and, in any 
> > event, can't afford it...
> >
> > Judy
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
> http://www.shafermedia.com
> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>  From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Nov 27 02:54:32 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 23:54:32 -0800
Subject: OT - My Views on Rev Marketing
Message-ID: <551D4F67-7B0E-4911-931E-16D270AC89CC@danshafer.com>

The current thread on how Rev should be priced and marketed led to  
several people -- one here on the list and a few others in private  
communication -- asking me for my views on the subject because I  
mentioned I had studied this kind of market several years ago for a  
defunct client.

Rather than burden this list with that lengthy report, I've posted it  
at my Revolution site for those who are sufficiently masochistic to  
want to read what I said more than four years ago on the subject.

http://www.revolutionpros.com

Click on "Views"

If you want to discuss it further, rather than clutter up this list,  
please feel free to go to http://www.eclecticity.com (my blog) and  
post a response to my pointer post there.

I now return you to your regularly unscheduled programming.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Nov 27 03:13:45 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 09:13:45 +0100
Subject: yet another Rev trick for Selections and Plugins
Message-ID: <20051127073207.BB3CE8255CA@mail.runrev.com>

Hi everyone

It's a white morning here in luxembourg - I overslept to 7h30
and glad I did! Motivated to work in the object garage...

I was working on a new cool stack (a new group of renaissance 
style stacks) and noticed I gave up something and didn't 
notice how the answer was already under my nose!

I switched stacks and I noticed something was missing in 
Rev... It's so simple, and while you learn to live with it in
rev really fast, it still is a sore in general productivity.

Bugzilla it? No, it's part of the job of the scripter to do
this or not... But in general, this selection trick is very 
handy to have. And available since the 80's guis!

When you select something in a field in window 1,
Go to another window look something up, go back to window 1
and your selection is gone. Or, copy something, go paste it
in another window and when you paste, your selection in window
1 is gone!

And how often doesn't it happen to you? 
The bigger the selection the more annoying too!

That's not the way selections work in any OS I remember... 
But Rev allows us to manage this!

So I added this to my library stack and it works great!
I'll share the basic mechanism because it's the start for
the rest of the logic behind plugins.

Showing you how to make it work, instead of making
the stack ready is imoho the same as the difference
between giving a man a meal or teaching him how to fish...

This tip is medium-level but really easy to implement...

You should know how to make libraries, that is stacksinuse,
front or backscripts, and how the resume[stack] and suspen[stack]
events work. 

The following script goes into the main stack script that 
manages your windows or a startupscript or your personal 
frontscript. Im sure it will be handy for other uses.

Note: If you paste it, make sure there isn't another 
suspendstack or resumestack script you may overide in that 
same script.

--

local xos -- use a global for more flex across libraries if needed

on SuspendStack 
  -- remember selection
  put the filename of the topstack into thisstack
  if the selectedchunk is not empty then
    put the selectedchunk into xos[thisstack,lastselections]
  end if
  pass SuspendStack -- don't forget to pass the msg
end SuspendStack

on ResumeStack
  -- reselect
  put the filename of the topstack into thisstack
  get xos[thisstack,lastselections]
  if it is not empty then
    try -- just in case it goes wrong
      do "select" && it
    end try
  end if
  pass ResumeStack -- don't forget to pass the msg
end ResumeStack

-- 

Exercise: implement this for resume and suspend events, field
selection switch (going from one field to another (harder),
and what about the selobj(s)!

Did I mention theres lots more applications?

--

For those interested in more evolved libraries that also remember the
selobjs, the control's props (and history of), resume and suspend orders and
stats, and more... It's all available already across TAOO. 

cheers
Xavier

--
http://monsieurx.com/taoo 
The Art Of Objects



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Sun Nov 27 03:20:51 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 03:20:51 -0500
Subject: "Tarting it all over town" - successfully
Message-ID: <web-339716214@mail.maclaunch.com>

Arguably, APPLE have been "tarting it" quite successfully
with, until recently, a double system:

iMacs and iBooks for the "tartier" types

and

the big G4s and G5s for the "marrying" types

(I suppose we should not forget the eMac for those with
"kinky" tastes)

(I wonder how far I can stretch that imagery - Thanks
Richard)

Now, Apple have brought out the MINI, which looks like a
middle-way (at this point I can return to my metaphor of
living together).

MicroSoft (cough, cough) are, arguably so "tarty" that
their product is "diseased" - and something like 95% of
computer users seem prepared to take the risk.

Many programmers produce a "Lite" version and a "Pro" one
and seem to do tolerably well.

sincerely, Richmond
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From vokey at uleth.ca  Sun Nov 27 03:44:21 2005
From: vokey at uleth.ca (John Vokey)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 01:44:21 -0700
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <20051127071125.82222825642@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051127071125.82222825642@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <00438AB5-3EF4-4541-A05E-E73771869C3D@uleth.ca>

I haven't commented previously on this issue, and, note, I haven't  
quoted anyone below.  But, I think this whole debate is a tempest in  
a teapot (or a rant in search of topic).  Just what is the issue here?

Dan Shafer, a hero to many X-Talkers, including me, is concerned that  
RR is spreading itself too thin, supporting both DreamCard (allegedly  
for ``Inventive users''---hobbyists by any other name) and Revolution  
(allegedly for ``Professional Developers'', ignoring the different  
pricing options).  He has argued that RR can't do both, citing the  
history of computing and the litany of failed software companies  
attempting to do what he claims RR is doing.  I don't question his  
facts, or even his argument; but I do question the alleged parallel  
of RR with that history.

As an aside, let it be known that I have the ``maxed-out'' license--- 
the equivalent of what I had with Metacard (yes, I have been with MC/ 
RR for quite some time), so if RR went the totally ``professional  
route'' I would be unaffected in that sense.

But that would be a big mistake.  Dreamcard *IS* the replacement for  
hypercard for all but a few (I am a huge Dreamcard supporter---see  
the RR website for my endorsement).  How many hypercard users ever  
produced stand-alones (``apps'' in the parlance)?  I know I never did  
(just as I never produce standalones---apps---in MC/RR).  Tiny stacks  
is what we produced, and still do.  Dreamcard is brilliant just  
because we can continue to do just that.  Better, those to whom we  
provide our stacks need not even have a copy of Dreamcard---they can  
just download the Dreamcard player to use our stacks.  It is the  
continuation of a dream (yes!) that was Steved at Apple, but now  
applies to virtually all operating systems.  THAT is utterly brilliant!

I know Dan appreciates this brilliance; he is just concerned that any  
resources devoted to Dreamcard are extracted from MC/RR as a  
professional development environment.  I would agree, except that I  
think he has mischaracterised the distinction between Dreamcard and  
MC/RR.  Dreamcard is not some lesser development environment from MC/ 
RR, just different.  Personally, I like producing full-blown apps in  
40K that I can send to colleagues to use.  These apps include  
psychology experiments, novel statistical analyses, neural nets, and  
so on.  For that purpose, there is no reason that Dreamcard should be  
different from MC/RR.  Indeed, as Dreamcard is, in effect, a free  
(for RR) spin-off from app-producing MC/RR, ANY Dreamcard sales are  
pure gravy.

My point?  Dreamcard users are not any less ``professional'' than  
those for whom compiled ``apps'' are the raison d'etre.  We need and  
use everything the alleged professionals also use.  So, there is no  
difference in support or resources.  RR should continue to develop  
Revolution as they have been doing, responding to every complaint the  
``professionals'' demand needs correction: but those professionals  
are as much in the Dreamcard contingent as they are in the ``I paid  
maximum dinero, I demand satisfaction'' contingent.  The difference  
is, completely and only, that Dreamcard programmers don't need  
compiled apps of their creations.  To the extent that such  
compilation concerns are at issue, RR should devote resources to  
addressing them.  If they are engine issues, we all benefit, so I am  
all for it!  Kevin et al. at RR (brilliant people all, obviously)  
have recognised this, and have done the brilliant thing.  In case you  
missed it: I can't emphasise enough just how brilliant for the  
computing community the Dreamcard move is: the dream of hypercard  
made available to virtually all, but based on an expensive engine for  
those of us that need it *for other purposes*.  Do I mind indirectly  
funding all those Dreamcard users?  Nope, as it is, as I noted, pure  
gravy for RR.

So, just to drive the point home: Dreamcard is brilliant!  Pass it  
around.  And, don't deprecate it by some false amateur vs.  
``professional'' distinction.

--
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See <http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html>

-Dr. John R. Vokey





From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 04:44:22 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 19:44:22 +1000
Subject: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail
In-Reply-To: <BFAE5E78.26FF7%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BFAE5E78.26FF7%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511270144r3afd5cf9i8060702266f5d28f@mail.gmail.com>

> Sorry to put this OT subject on the list but I'm hoping to solicit some of
> the more knowledgeable minds out there...
>
> Over the last week I've been inundated (yet again) with a tidal wave of
> bounced virus email messages.  Of course I did not initiate any of the
> original messages -- I'm receiving the bounced attempts and server notices
> as a result of virus propagation.
>
> My ISP has spam filters and virus blocking which is fine for general
> incoming email, and I use client-side filters as well, but the problem is
> having to deal with messages that are being returned to me because viruses
> messages are spoofing my domain.
>
> I've written about 2 dozen rules on my end (Entourage) to weed out the bogus
> email but with a recent outbreak I've received almost 7,000 messages in just
> the last week.  These bounced messages are clogging my server and I need to
> stay on email duty daily to clear them out.
>

Hi Scott,

While I haven't experienced this at your level (yet), I have
encountered it. The key seems to be filtering on the addressee. Emails
to you are addressed to you specifically and presumably others in your
organisation are the same. In my experience, these returned spam
emails are addresses to unknown people at your domain. If you have
filters that trash or re-direct anything that isn't going to a known
email address, then you will probably catch most of these.

And I can't resist this one from Xavier:

> And I thought mac users were not affected by window viruses ;)

Last week you took a virus warning to be an attack on Windows users,
now you seem to be trying to stir up the same debate that you
condemned then.

To answer your question: yes, Mac users are immune to all current
viruses and worms. Their programming does not work on a Mac, so they
have not effect when they are received. However someone spoofing a
domain name is entirely different. Scott is not getting the virus, he
is getting the bounces from the virus or spam not being delivered when
it apparently came from his domain. And spam is unfortunately
cross-platform.

Sarah


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Nov 27 05:02:59 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 02:02:59 -0800
Subject: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail
In-Reply-To: <000301c5f31f$f3a304d0$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3>
Message-ID: <BFAEC453.27485%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently,Jerry Muelver wrote:

>> Over the last week I've been inundated (yet again) with a tidal wave of
>> bounced virus email messages.  Of course I did not initiate any of the
>> original messages -- I'm receiving the bounced attempts and server notices
>> as a result of virus propagation.
> ....
>> Any suggestions on how to combat this problem?
> 
> Just set your filter to intercept any "returned" emails, and delete them
> from the server without downloading. If you aren't sending them out in the
> first place, why would you want to read the bogus bounce notices anyway?

Thanks for the suggestion.  I don't own the server (it's a commercial ISP)
and I don't initially see any option specifically for filtering returned
mail, but this is a good idea.  Unfortunately, I still need to deal with
general notices claiming "Mail could not be delivered because XYZ...".

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Sun Nov 27 05:15:51 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 02:15:51 -0800
Subject: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511270144r3afd5cf9i8060702266f5d28f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BFAEC757.2748E%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently,Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> While I haven't experienced this at your level (yet), I have
> encountered it. The key seems to be filtering on the addressee. Emails
> to you are addressed to you specifically and presumably others in your
> organisation are the same. In my experience, these returned spam
> emails are addresses to unknown people at your domain. If you have
> filters that trash or re-direct anything that isn't going to a known
> email address, then you will probably catch most of these.

Thanks for your response.  Unfortunately, the emails use legitimate
addresses which makes them harder to filter.  Plus I am subjected to the
repeated "Your domain has been blacklisted due to bla bla bla...",
illustrating the uselessness of commercial white/black lists -- eventually
the entire user base of the Internet will be banned.

[sigh] Even with filters and spam blockers and rules, these all address the
symptoms, not the source of the problem. Somebody somewhere needs to do
something about this.

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Nov 27 05:44:42 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:44:42 +0100
Subject: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail
In-Reply-To: <BFAEC757.2748E%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <20051127100308.330CE824EFF@mail.runrev.com>


Isn't there a virus scanner proxy or plugin for your mail server?

what kind of server is it? Can you install software on it?

On the pc world, you have dozens of exchange, smpt gateway filtering proxies
and im sure there are for unix too... 

cheers
Xavier


> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Scott Rossi
> Sent: Sunday, 27 November, 2005 11:16
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail
> 
> Recently,Sarah Reichelt wrote:
> 
> > While I haven't experienced this at your level (yet), I have 
> > encountered it. The key seems to be filtering on the 
> addressee. Emails 
> > to you are addressed to you specifically and presumably 
> others in your 
> > organisation are the same. In my experience, these returned spam 
> > emails are addresses to unknown people at your domain. If you have 
> > filters that trash or re-direct anything that isn't going 
> to a known 
> > email address, then you will probably catch most of these.
> 
> Thanks for your response.  Unfortunately, the emails use 
> legitimate addresses which makes them harder to filter.  Plus 
> I am subjected to the repeated "Your domain has been 
> blacklisted due to bla bla bla...", illustrating the 
> uselessness of commercial white/black lists -- eventually the 
> entire user base of the Internet will be banned.
> 
> [sigh] Even with filters and spam blockers and rules, these 
> all address the symptoms, not the source of the problem. 
> Somebody somewhere needs to do something about this.
> 
> Thanks & Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -----
> E: scott at tactilemedia.com
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sun Nov 27 05:43:24 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 02:43:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <060846C9-2A4C-4863-8A39-4FB168345B02@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511270230380.6580-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Dan sez...

> I would have agreed until the last two revs. I am not personally
> acquainted with the situation, but several friends of mine who teach
> and study multimedia development at our local university have
> complained bitterly to me in the past year about how MM has made
> development in Flash all but inaccessible to folks who don't grok
> scripting. I'm not sure how they've managed to do this -- or if it's
> just a perception -- but it's hurt them in this university curriculum.

Chipp & Dan,

FWIW, I concur. IDT (Instructional Design & Technology) degree programs,
from what I know, have relied heavily on MM programs (first Director, then
increasingly Flash on presumption of Director's imploding doom).

>From what I have read and observed, many of these programs initially used
Hypercard but shifted to Director & Flash to accomodate PC-using students
(ultimately the clear majority).

Long before I obtained such a degree, I recall reading discussions
(largely from the HC list) and initiated some private ones on the subject,
and they all supported what you have said, namely, that when Hypercard
was the authoring software used, these individuals in the degree programs
were able to learn it suffficiently to continue using it beyond the
requirements of their degree program (that is to say, voluntarily).

However, I have yet to meet a single individual who has done likewise with
Director or Flash.  Not one.  Including me.  The learning curve for those
two products is markedly steeper: take a look at your 'average' _Director
for Dummies_ sort of book and you'll see how the 'inventive user' is
catastrophically-adrift in a sea of C-like dot syntax that goes on forever
and is incomprehensible (add to that the, until previously, foreign
concept of a timeline-based interface for this audience); Flash's
ActionScript (or whatever it's called these days) isn't a whole lot
different, being based, I think, heavily on JavaScript meant to look more
like a Java/C-lite than a 'real' x-Talk.

They are not inherently 'inventive user-friendly'.  And, hence, you end up
with the graduates of such degree programs who go on to teach it
themselves not being very good teachers of it.  And thus the cycle
continues.

> OTOH, that group is now investigating Rev, so all is not lost!

--I only wish CSUF were one of them... :-(

Judy




From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sun Nov 27 05:50:17 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 02:50:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Graphic Design Tools
In-Reply-To: <A797AA1B-58AF-4A05-9FEF-86FE96BF1B14@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511270247170.6580-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Dan,

Really??  Cool..

To be fair, I only became acquainted with it when, upon being asked rather
suddenly to teach a course in multimedia, snorted around the software on
our server and found it (and precious little else!).

As you say, you really can do quite alot with it.

I'm a paid owner as well ;-)

I'll be hitting you up for that, whatever (don't do coffee, alas..
probably why I can't program worth a farthing), at RevConWest!

;-)

Judy

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Judy....
>
> Wow.
>
> Would you believe this?
>
> I've owned a GraphicConverter license for years and I never knew it
> could create or modify graphics. All I've ever used it for is
> converting from one format to another!
>
> ::Sound of open palm smiting forehead::
>
> I just opened it and I actually think I could learn to use it to do
> all the graphic stuff I've always said I didn't know how to do.
>
> I owe you a Latte (or other non-alcoholic drink of your choice) next
> time you're in Monterey (who knows when THAT might be, hmmmmmm?).
>
> ;-)



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sun Nov 27 05:51:44 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 02:51:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <43896122.2030508@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511270250590.6580-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

But it's not necessarily 'casting pearls before swine' ... (or, is it???)

Judy

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Tarting it all over town for just $99 gives too much away.
>
> ;)



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sun Nov 27 05:55:17 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 02:55:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <43896367.1070302@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511270252140.6580-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Perhaps the market was already saturated for this type of tool in that
given environment?

I regret that I didn't have a chance to ever work with LiveMotion (was
there a Mac version available??? I seem to recall seeing a box in the
department's SysAdmin's office, but when I inquired it was PC-only  and I
don't think even my PC-using colleage ever did anything with it, which,
of course, has n o bearing on the usefullness of it).

Judy

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> And yet while those inventive users suffer, there were never enough of
> them to keep Adobe LiveMotion alive.
>
> As Scott Rossi can attest and I'll toss in a hearty "Amen!", LiveMotion
> was truly "Flash for the rest of us."  Everyone who ever spent more than
> 20 minutes with both agreed that LiveMotion was far more accessible.
> Borrowing the best of After Effects' award-winning timeline, LiveMotion
> made simple and immediate sense out of so many things that were insanely
> arcane in Flash.  It didn't offer the full range of dynamic programming
> capabilities as Flash had, but LiveMotion made short work of animations
> and basic interactivity, certainly enough to handle much of what Flash
> is commonly used for.
>
> But at the end of the day, Adobe couldn't find enough users who didn't
> prefer the more professionally-oriented Flash to justify keeping
> LiveMotion alive.



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sun Nov 27 05:56:38 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 02:56:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Graphic Design Tools
In-Reply-To: <20051127071119.2FFD082563E@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511270255440.6580-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Do you have a URL for it? (my PC-using students, chagrined at
GraphicConverter's being Mac-only, are always asking me for a PC
alternative...)

Judy

On Sun, 27 Nov 2005, MisterX wrote:

> For PCs, I recommend ACDSee - ultrafast browser, powerful catalog and nice
> editor. Photoshop still rules...



From ale870 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 27 06:12:42 2005
From: ale870 at gmail.com (Alessandro Manotti)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 12:12:42 +0100
Subject: DLL usage in RunRev
Message-ID: <f54296680511270312x2488775aweec57e3b455b3a58@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

can someone help me to understand how to use a Windows DLL in RunRev?

I cannot find the exact function to load a library and use the
functions contained inside.  :-(

Thank you!


From mcdomi at free.fr  Sun Nov 27 06:17:36 2005
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 12:17:36 +0100
Subject: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail
In-Reply-To: <BFAEC453.27485%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <1h6opmx.8to2kjhrum2eM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Scott Rossi <scott at tactilemedia.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the suggestion.  I don't own the server (it's a commercial ISP)
> and I don't initially see any option specifically for filtering returned
> mail

Try Mailfilter!
It's a *nix thing, but that works...
I tested it with a seldom used address for testing.
I have a cron to launch mailfilter every hour, just before fetching the
mail.

There is OS X font end, but I preferred to write a Rev stack to manage
the filters ;-)
And another Rev stack to study the log!

Unwanted messages are deleted directly on the server :-)

As of today, there is a build for OS X (somewhat lag behind the "pure"
*nix version)

MailfilterX (front end):
http://www.frank-blome.de/mailfilterx/news.php

Mailfilter home:
http://mailfilter.sourceforge.net/

-- 
Revolutionario



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Nov 27 06:23:53 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 12:23:53 +0100
Subject: DLL usage in RunRev
In-Reply-To: <f54296680511270312x2488775aweec57e3b455b3a58@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051127104215.38DBC824F57@mail.runrev.com>

Hi Alessandro

There's lots of ink spilled in the mailist about those...

You can't interface directly to DLLs without an API call that you make via
shell or a custom external command.

Depends on what you need...
Tell us more... There's usually other ways in Rev ;)

Get the ActiveSearch Stack from the RevOnline files... fast Search engine
in the comfort of rev

or via the web

<http://www.mail-archive.com/cgi-bin/htsearch?method=and&format=short&config
=use-revolution_lists_runrev_com&restrict=&exclude=&words=DLL>
Whatch for line cuts in the url...

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Alessandro Manotti
> Sent: Sunday, 27 November, 2005 12:13
> To: use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Subject: DLL usage in RunRev
> 
> Hello,
> 
> can someone help me to understand how to use a Windows DLL in RunRev?
> 
> I cannot find the exact function to load a library and use 
> the functions contained inside.  :-(
> 
> Thank you!
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage 
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Sun Nov 27 06:16:30 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 06:16:30 -0500
Subject: Graphic Design Tools
Message-ID: <web-339723333@mail.maclaunch.com>

There is a Windows version of GIMP:

http://www.gimp.org/windows/

sincerely, Richmond
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Sun Nov 27 06:33:45 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 12:33:45 +0100
Subject: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511270144r3afd5cf9i8060702266f5d28f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051127105204.16D038250E3@mail.runrev.com>

 
> From Sarah Reichelt

> And I can't resist this one from Xavier:
> 
> > And I thought mac users were not affected by window viruses ;)
> 
> Last week you took a virus warning to be an attack on Windows 
> users, now you seem to be trying to stir up the same debate 
> that you condemned then.

I did? Richmonds comments got me frisked by their complete ignorance. But
it's not for the "I took mistankenly a comment for another" or trying to
stir a debate. Im comdemning the ignorant rethoric about PCs on the list
sometimes.

Then when a PC user makes his pc tool available on the mac after long hours
of testing and scripting sessions only TWO mac users will say anything in 4
weeks time that all the patterns are wrong, the borders don't look good, the
buttons are wrong, the standard buttons are wrong, the hilites are not ok,
etc... 

This mac attitude of ignoring pc users is really not helping rev or its
community open their minds to the rest of the market available to them. How
can I tell? The number of times others repeat what I just said one way or
another. 

Kind of stuff that really makes me want unsubscribe sometimes...

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo 



From mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk  Sun Nov 27 06:57:54 2005
From: mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:57:54 +0000
Subject: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail
In-Reply-To: <BFAEC757.2748E%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BFAEC757.2748E%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <43899F42.8050903@harbourhost.co.uk>

Scott Rossi wrote:

> [sigh] Even with filters and spam blockers and rules, these all address the
> symptoms, not the source of the problem. Somebody somewhere needs to do
> something about this.
> 

Something that could help considerably would be if mail server admins, 
and service providers generally, banned or at least strongly discouraged 
use of the mail-bounce option, which spammers deliberately abuse.

Mailbox users who have control of this aspect of mailserver operation 
should be aware of the inadvisability of bouncing badly addressed mail, 
in that it can get you a rep as an open relay.

Martin



From frny4x at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 27 07:34:17 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 04:34:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <196133125634.20051126220904@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <20051127123418.28788.qmail@web32807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

No, I wasn't thinking of MS.  It was Borland.  I Have Learning Editions of theirs.

Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:  Frank-

Saturday, November 26, 2005, 7:13:30 PM, you wrote:

> I wasn't referring to the free and old C++ available. Recently,
> they had Learning Editions of All their current development tools -
> Delphi, C++, Kylix, Java.

Well, let's see...

C++ Builder *30-day trial* version 6 is dated March 2002
The Kylix *trial* versions are dated from mid-2002 (version 3)
The JBuilder versions are current but only run for 30 days
Delphi Personal is not downloadable but is "available through select
publications", as is Borland C++ Builder Personal.

...or you can purchase Delphi starting at $1090 on up to $3490.
C++ Builder lists for $927 (pro) and $2117 (enterprise)
Entry level JBuilder is $499

Maybe you were thinking of Microsoft? They offered a "Learning
Edition" of VB at the student pricing of $50. Then end-of-lifed the
product.

Mind you, I like Borland's compilers. But the Turbo Pascal days, or
even the Turbo C days, are behind them now.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
mwieder at ahsoftware.net

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Sun Nov 27 07:33:47 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 07:33:47 -0500
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
Message-ID: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>

I learnt Hypercard without a book,
and I extended my knowledge, as RR extended xTalk, in the
same way:

by doing!

Ludwig Wittgenstein said that too many people Philosophise
and not enough DO PHILOSOPHY.

Now if we all DID Runtime Revolution:

i.e. got in there, got our feet wet, realised that (despite
a few itches) it really is just about the best
cross-platform RAD out there, and used the built-in
documentation as well as we are able to . . .

We would probably shut-up about the 'awful this and the
awful that'.

Although I am a mere 43 (I have a feeling Dan Shafer is
older) I started computer programming with FORTRAN 4 in
1975 - then BASIC, then PASCAL, ZILOG . . . those who moan
(I don't mean the odd 'twitch') and continue to moan about
RR's documentation and "lack-of-ease-of-use" ought to try
programming with one of those horrible Hollerith card
punchers:

http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/univac/cards.html

a stack of cards,

a Fortran Manual (remember all that stuff about
formatting?),

and the 2-3 week wait while your cards sat in a queue at
one of the few Universities that offered a public service.

"Spoilt, spoilt, spoilt . . "  says Richmond stumping off
puffing his pipe!
__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sun Nov 27 09:17:05 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 09:17:05 -0500
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <43896367.1070302@fourthworld.com>
References: <000801c5f260$0458ae30$6501a8c0@new0eeca32bb97>	<f73a98160511260203j6db9ea29x7f2039e1baaaa870@mail.gmail.com>	<7EF1B5A7-785C-4AD3-892D-CC1045F55244@danshafer.com>	<4389346F.90502@chipp.com>
	<060846C9-2A4C-4863-8A39-4FB168345B02@danshafer.com>
	<43896367.1070302@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <EF3EA126-5E61-44C6-9504-F373666034D1@conncoll.edu>


On Nov 27, 2005, at 2:42 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>
> But at the end of the day, Adobe couldn't find enough users who  
> didn't prefer the more professionally-oriented Flash to justify  
> keeping LiveMotion alive.
>

Products that have done well from the low end (which may mean, not  
that they're still around but that they've gained legendary status in  
memory -- you can take that to the bank, can't you? . . .) may not  
have done it by attracting people who already knew that they wanted  
to do what the product did (I must make a Flash thingie! but I'm  
stingy!). Attracting casuals off the street, instead. A lot of people  
tried programming for the first time because of Borland Pascal,  
DeSmet C, HyperCard . . . They weren't choosing between one product  
and another (e.g., a pro and a lite version). I imagine a certain  
number of the pros on this list began that way.

Charles Hartman



From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Nov 27 10:09:00 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 15:09:00 +0000
Subject: Graphic Design Tools
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511270255440.6580-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511270255440.6580-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <4389CC0C.4090600@tweedly.net>

Judy Perry wrote:

>Do you have a URL for it? (my PC-using students, chagrined at
>GraphicConverter's being Mac-only, are always asking me for a PC
>alternative...)
>
>  
>
http://www.acdsystems.com/
$49.99 (or EUR39.99 depending where you are :-)

I first found ACDSee from a mention in the great Sports' Illustrated 
article at
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6453-6821


-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date: 25/11/2005



From kkaufman at snet.net  Sun Nov 27 10:20:58 2005
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 10:20:58 -0500
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
Message-ID: <71845D5D-9495-4E13-9896-3BA2095FEA8C@snet.net>

2 cents:
In an era where, if I wanted to, I could easily spend $5 on a cup of  
coffee,  an IDE such as Dreamcard at $100 seems very reasonable.  If  
you like what it can do, then spend more for the Studio version, etc.
I've no problem with the pricing as it stands in US dollars.  I don't  
know if the same carries over into relative cost in other countries.

Kurt


From see3d at writeme.com  Sun Nov 27 12:44:30 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 12:44:30 -0500
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <BE7F740D-746E-4C90-B0F5-4E4538E95536@writeme.com>

Richmond,

While I agree with your sentiment (I learned programming the same  
way, though a few years earlier), I don't see Transcript  
documentation as something to compare to other languages from the  
point of view of whose documentation is the worst.

I see what the documentation could be --as a competitive advantage to  
other languages by lowering the barrier to entry and mastery.   
Transcript is different enough from other popular languages, uses  
different terms and metaphors, and is so rich and complex in its  
capabilities that it takes understanding beyond the deceptively  
simple surface to get an idea of what one can really accomplish with  
it.  Spend a year monitoring this list and you start to get the sense  
of it.  However, as you pointed out, rather than just getting you  
feet wet, there is nothing like diving in and thrashing about a good  
while to figure it out.  I am of that school of thought also.

However, I also know how frustrating it can be when stuff does not  
work the way you thought, or you don't even know how to ask the  
questions about what you want to accomplish.  I continue to be amazed  
at the questions from newbies on this list.  Most of the time I can't  
even figure out what they are asking,  then along comes three answers  
from the ranks of experience that understand what the person was  
really asking in spite of what they said.

That was my dilemma about the documentation --how to provide an  
answer when the person does not even know how to ask the question.   
That is why I keep poking at the concept of documentation that can be  
indexed into by an outline from general to specific topics with more  
than one path to the specific information --and I am not talking  
about just the standard docs, but the wisdom of this list also.

Dennis


On Nov 27, 2005, at 7:33 AM, Mathewson wrote:

> I learnt Hypercard without a book,
> and I extended my knowledge, as RR extended xTalk, in the
> same way:
>
> by doing!
>
> Ludwig Wittgenstein said that too many people Philosophise
> and not enough DO PHILOSOPHY.
>
> Now if we all DID Runtime Revolution:
>
> i.e. got in there, got our feet wet, realised that (despite
> a few itches) it really is just about the best
> cross-platform RAD out there, and used the built-in
> documentation as well as we are able to . . .
>
> We would probably shut-up about the 'awful this and the
> awful that'.
>
> Although I am a mere 43 (I have a feeling Dan Shafer is
> older) I started computer programming with FORTRAN 4 in
> 1975 - then BASIC, then PASCAL, ZILOG . . . those who moan
> (I don't mean the odd 'twitch') and continue to moan about
> RR's documentation and "lack-of-ease-of-use" ought to try
> programming with one of those horrible Hollerith card
> punchers:


From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Sun Nov 27 13:08:17 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 13:08:17 -0500
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
Message-ID: <web-339737418@mail.maclaunch.com>

In BULGARIA, coffee cost anywhere between 10 - 30 cents a
cup:
however the average family income (i.e. Mum and Dad
working) come to about $100. The average family are unable
to save.

However, this is wandering seriously OT.

Capitalism (a loose-fitting sort of economic something that
Bulgarians, along with a lot of other East Europeans,
thought was a better bet than Communism) does not take
prisoners, nor does it hand out free candy. Therefore the
discussion about pricing of Runtime Revolution should not
take the price of coffee in Bulgaria into account.

For nations who have not got their act together - And
Bulgaria is a serious case in point of a nation of
asset-srippers who have wasted just about every chance that
was presented to them by the collapse of Communism - there
is the Free version of RR for Linux. I have already
introduced a few students at the technical University to
RR-Linux and flung Ubuntu disks at them.

It is perfectly possible to make standalones for all
supported platforms using the RR-Linux 2.2.1 underwritten
by Novell: I have no sympathy there.

Ultimately, however much RR decide to charge for their
product rest with them. At least, unlike many other RADs,
there is a FREE version.

What is more to the point should be a discussion as to how
to pursuade citizens of the nations that sponge, nations
that have dug their own holes, and so forth, to get into RR
and learn how to use it, and contribute via this list and
the other normal outlets. 

If a drug-dealer gets kids hooked on FREE narcotics then he
can charge what he likes: it is an unpleasant parallel -
but not entirely inaccurate.  Just at present I'm lurking
in dark alley-ways pushing Ubuntu disks - what are you
pushing?

sincerely, Richmond

__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Sun Nov 27 13:31:24 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 10:31:24 -0800
Subject: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail
In-Reply-To: <BFAE5E78.26FF7%scott@tactilemedia.com>
References: <BFAE5E78.26FF7%scott@tactilemedia.com>
Message-ID: <p06230901bfafa9f8d218@[192.168.1.103]>

Change your email address.
Then for a transition period hook up the old address to a 
auto-responder to direct people to a web page with a small cgi that 
can forward a small message. Like this:

http://barncard.com/contact/

  The people that really need to get to you can still do so, and you 
can send a mass email to close associates.

I know it's painful to change a cherished address, but it's really 
the best way. At some point, when the email address ends up on lists, 
one has no chance.


>I've written about 2 dozen rules on my end (Entourage) to weed out the bogus
>email but with a recent outbreak I've received almost 7,000 messages in just
>the last week.  These bounced messages are clogging my server and I need to
>stay on email duty daily to clear them out.
>
>Any suggestions on how to combat this problem?
>
>Thanks & Regards,
>
>Scott Rossi

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From rev at armbase.com  Sun Nov 27 13:51:02 2005
From: rev at armbase.com (rev at armbase.com)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:51:02 +0000
Subject: Graphic Design Tools
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511270255440.6580-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511270255440.6580-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <20051127185102.6oi6xjk9cc8gw0g0@webmail.armbase.com>

Quoting Judy Perry <jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu>:

> Do you have a URL for it? (my PC-using students, chagrined at
> GraphicConverter's being Mac-only, are always asking me for a PC
> alternative...)

save all the hastle and use a cross platform tool
Pixel32
http://www.kanzelsberger.com/pixel/

even on SkyOS and BeOS WOW.

cheers
bob
>
> Judy
>
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2005, MisterX wrote:
>
>> For PCs, I recommend ACDSee - ultrafast browser, powerful catalog and nice
>> editor. Photoshop still rules...
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>





From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Nov 27 13:56:48 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 10:56:48 -0800
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <B908E43B-98DF-46A9-A45E-E8C5BA36668D@danshafer.com>

Your feeling is right. I am 60. I don't worry about age. It's a  
proven fact that people who have more birthdays live longer.

Besides, I always heard programming was a young man's game so I  
figure if I keep doing it maybe the Universe will forget my  
chronological age.

And for my feelings about the docs, go to http:// 
www.revolutionpros.com and click on "Views". That way I don't have to  
repeat them here endlessly!

On Nov 27, 2005, at 4:33 AM, Mathewson wrote:

> Although I am a mere 43 (I have a feeling Dan Shafer is
> older)



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Sun Nov 27 14:07:27 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:07:27 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511270252140.6580-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511270252140.6580-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <p06230903bfafb4443bf6@[192.168.1.103]>

Yes, I have an OS9 version right here...
sqb
>I regret that I didn't have a chance to ever work with LiveMotion (was
>there a Mac version available??? I seem to recall seeing a box in the
>
>Judy
>

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com  Sun Nov 27 14:42:01 2005
From: Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com (Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:42:01 -0500
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about whingeing
Message-ID: <OF12CF1DF2.24180844-ON852570C6.006B5A26@sealedair.com>

> I agree Dan...
> 
> I have never had any of these issues come up for me.
> 
> Tom
> 
> On Nov 26, 2005, at 3:27 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
> 
>> Roger....
>>
>> Interestingly, I have *never* encountered most of the anomalies
>> mentioned in this thread and I program in Rev exclusively on OS X.

I am glad to see that at least 2 people have not encountered this (because 
it is absolutely no fun when it happens), but this does not nullify my 
experience and the accounts recently posted on this list. There HAS TO BE 
a cause for this random occurrence.

Roger Eller <roger.e.eller at sealedair.com>



From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Sun Nov 27 15:37:00 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 12:37:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Graphic Design Tools
In-Reply-To: <20051127185102.6oi6xjk9cc8gw0g0@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511271236390.14058-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

Thanks for the suggestion!


On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 rev at armbase.com wrote:

> save all the hastle and use a cross platform tool
> Pixel32
> http://www.kanzelsberger.com/pixel/
>
> even on SkyOS and BeOS WOW.



From see3d at writeme.com  Sun Nov 27 15:42:17 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 15:42:17 -0500
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about whingeing
In-Reply-To: <OF12CF1DF2.24180844-ON852570C6.006B5A26@sealedair.com>
References: <OF12CF1DF2.24180844-ON852570C6.006B5A26@sealedair.com>
Message-ID: <3F1EB208-EACE-4CFC-86D1-7FCC2EC45880@writeme.com>

I don't recall ever seeing an effect without a cause.
Rest assured there is a cause, but unless it can be reproduced, it  
will only get fixed by accident!
If there is a next time, save the crime scene.
Might be about time now to get on with your life.

Dennis

On Nov 27, 2005, at 2:42 PM, Roger.E.Eller at sealedair.com wrote:

> I am glad to see that at least 2 people have not encountered this  
> (because
> it is absolutely no fun when it happens), but this does not nullify my
> experience and the accounts recently posted on this list. There HAS  
> TO BE
> a cause for this random occurrence.



From jeff at siphonophore.com  Sun Nov 27 15:42:42 2005
From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeffrey Reynolds)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 15:42:42 -0500
Subject: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail
In-Reply-To: <20051127112035.0C054825689@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051127112035.0C054825689@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <a750999374ffda5c50ec0e0b1def551a@siphonophore.com>

scott,

one thing that has stemmed the tide for me is to start putting your 
email address on all your web posts as a java encoded text (there are 
several schemes out there to do this) instead of straight html. while 
this wont get rid of things immediately, it has slowed the tide a lot 
for me and many clients over the last couple of years since i started 
doing it. spam lists are constantly being generated by spiders all the 
time looking for emails in html, so it does help prevent you getting on 
new ones. im sure there are some spammers out there that are now using 
bots to run the java scripts to see if they get any email addresses 
back, but thats not as easy.

its never ending war... you might also try and forward your email over 
to a hosting account that has a spam filter on it. I use lunarpages for 
several clients and their spam filter has been great at catching stuff 
w/o any nailing any good emails as far as we can tell right now.

DO NOT rely on your ISP for filtering. Two clients just got burned by 
this big time. One had all the forwarded emails that came from his web 
domain to his private email at his isp (he wanted it all in one mail 
box) get bounced by his ISP when the isp changed their spam filter a 
few weeks ago w/o notice. it now thought that ll the forwarded emails 
were spams! He is now picking these up directly from the hosting 
account and the spam filter there is working brilliantly, whereas the 
isp's never did work well.

The other client used Yahoo as her primary client since she needed to 
access it from web browsers a lot and she preferred that web client 
over the hosting companies one. Well a couple of weeks Yahoo changed 
its spam filters and it started sending all sorts of her ISP 
(sbcglobal, in bed w/yahoo), yahoo and forwarded domain name emails 
into the spam. it was very strange what it was thinking was spam and 
what was not. some lists went in while others only had half of them go 
to spam. all paypal email went into the spam pile good or bad. It was 
awful and we didnt figure it out for a week since it was only a partial 
hit and a bit intermittent and she was very busy and not paying close 
attention. All this happened with no notification in both cases and 
really hurt their businesses.

The funniest (well sort of sad), though, was the early days of 
earthlink spam filtering. i was having some good emails all of a sudden 
go into the spam pile. i called tech support to see what was up and 
they said they had just changed the filtering and i should have 
received a notification about it (which i never received) and to watch 
to see if there was a problem. Wanna guess where the notification email 
was? in the spam pile!

oh yes and even clients cgi mailscripts are being hit by bots 
intermittently filling them up with garbage.

I just want to go downtown and scream at some of the reps here (i live 
in the dc area) for overriding the state spam laws that were coming on 
line with a worthless federal law. Virginia was about to institute a 
law that would have pretty much strung spammers they could get their 
hands on up by their thumbs! the official line was that the various 
state laws would be a restraint on interstate trade and hard to 
enforce! yeah right!

sorry [rant] off, i feel for ya scott, many megabytes of spam are 
circling my trash bin all the time...

Jeffrey Reynolds


On Nov 27, 2005, at 6:20 AM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

> [sigh] Even with filters and spam blockers and rules, these all 
> address the
> symptoms, not the source of the problem. Somebody somewhere needs to do
> something about this.



From frny4x at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 27 15:50:13 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 12:50:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <B908E43B-98DF-46A9-A45E-E8C5BA36668D@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <20051127205013.11343.qmail@web32806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Ok, here's my two cents about the state of the docs:
   
  - The intro videos are well done.  Although, I also had a big give-me-a-break moment when I saw I had to pay $50 to finish watching the videos.  
   
  - The content of the docs is reasonable.
   
  - The lack of a complete  User's/Programming  guide, without having to buy some other books, is very poor.
   
  Yeah, reading reference-like material is do-able for many, but in my view, it's a very big black eye for an otherwise intriguing and powerful product.
   
  For all the dialog we all just had on the pricing of this product, I'd cite this as an even bigger problem - you Can't expect to grow this product's use/market without the existence of a single, complete  User's/Programming  guide  included.  Lots of tire-kickers will quit early, thinking this thing has to be a nearly-unsupported *toy*  with the docs in their current form.   They'd be making a wrong conclusion, but I can see people making it after taking a quick tour of the docs.
   
   
   
   
  

Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:  Your feeling is right. I am 60. I don't worry about age. It's a 
proven fact that people who have more birthdays live longer.

Besides, I always heard programming was a young man's game so I 
figure if I keep doing it maybe the Universe will forget my 
chronological age.

And for my feelings about the docs, go to http:// 
www.revolutionpros.com and click on "Views". That way I don't have to 
repeat them here endlessly!

On Nov 27, 2005, at 4:33 AM, Mathewson wrote:

> Although I am a mere 43 (I have a feeling Dan Shafer is
> older)



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From see3d at writeme.com  Sun Nov 27 16:02:33 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 16:02:33 -0500
Subject: Graphic Design Tools
In-Reply-To: <20051127185102.6oi6xjk9cc8gw0g0@webmail.armbase.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511270255440.6580-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
	<20051127185102.6oi6xjk9cc8gw0g0@webmail.armbase.com>
Message-ID: <5B340F94-13CA-4C92-8259-1A0281DC1CA5@writeme.com>

This did not install on OS X the way the docs say to do it.  Go to  
the forums to get the right way to install.  Beware it is still  
alphaware.

Dennis

On Nov 27, 2005, at 1:51 PM, rev at armbase.com wrote:

> Quoting Judy Perry <jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu>:
>
>> Do you have a URL for it? (my PC-using students, chagrined at
>> GraphicConverter's being Mac-only, are always asking me for a PC
>> alternative...)
>
> save all the hastle and use a cross platform tool
> Pixel32
> http://www.kanzelsberger.com/pixel/
>
> even on SkyOS and BeOS WOW.
>
> cheers
> bob
>>
>> Judy
>>
>> On Sun, 27 Nov 2005, MisterX wrote:
>>
>>> For PCs, I recommend ACDSee - ultrafast browser, powerful catalog  
>>> and nice
>>> editor. Photoshop still rules...
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jbv.silences at club-internet.fr  Sun Nov 27 16:17:14 2005
From: jbv.silences at club-internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 22:17:14 +0100
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
References: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<BE7F740D-746E-4C90-B0F5-4E4538E95536@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <438A2253.4673C5DF@club-internet.fr>



Dennis Brown a *crit :

>
> Transcript is different enough from other popular languages,

in what is it different (beside the fact that it's much closer to
natural english than any other language) ? just asking...

> uses
> different terms and metaphors,

same question as above... again, just asking...

> and is so rich and complex in its
> capabilities that it takes understanding beyond the deceptively
> simple surface to get an idea of what one can really accomplish with
> it.

IMHO this could be said also about C or PHP or...

so what makes Transcript so specific (beside the fact that it's used
only by happy few) ?

Best,
JB (who fell in love with xTalk circa 1987)


--



_________________________
Faith is a central nervous system disease, like Alzheimer or multiple sclerosis.




From see3d at writeme.com  Sun Nov 27 16:44:16 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 16:44:16 -0500
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <438A2253.4673C5DF@club-internet.fr>
References: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<BE7F740D-746E-4C90-B0F5-4E4538E95536@writeme.com>
	<438A2253.4673C5DF@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <E0EEDDEF-67D2-4FC5-BE2A-25418835B7B7@writeme.com>


On Nov 27, 2005, at 4:17 PM, jbv wrote:

>> Transcript is different enough from other popular languages,
>
> in what is it different (beside the fact that it's much closer to
> natural english than any other language) ? just asking...
>> uses
>> different terms and metaphors,
>
> same question as above... again, just asking...
>
>> and is so rich and complex in its
>> capabilities that it takes understanding beyond the deceptively
>> simple surface to get an idea of what one can really accomplish with
>> it.
>
> IMHO this could be said also about C or PHP or...
>
> so what makes Transcript so specific (beside the fact that it's used
> only by happy few) ?

I usually need to approach a problem from the side instead of the  
bottom or top if I want the solution to be fast and elegant.  It is  
the more unusual parts of the language that have the true power.  It  
is obviously not different in concept than other xTalks, but xTalks  
are not the usual language of choice for developers.  Having keyed  
arrays opens up new approaches, but lack of fixed ones can make  
others painful.  Data structures need to be approached differently.   
Spending a year on this list has opened my eyes to approaches that  
are different than what I would have considered the straight forward  
way of doing things (for a computer).  The old hands seem to be  
frequently surprising each other with insights into how things work  
and how to approach simple problems in unusual ways that work  
better.  Of course once you spend a few years learning to think in  
Latin (oops, I mean Transcript), it all seems natural.

Dennis


From psahores at easynet.fr  Sun Nov 27 17:08:47 2005
From: psahores at easynet.fr (Pierre Sahores)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 23:08:47 +0100
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <B908E43B-98DF-46A9-A45E-E8C5BA36668D@danshafer.com>
References: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<B908E43B-98DF-46A9-A45E-E8C5BA36668D@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <ABDE20BF-3814-4A28-924D-1039096AFF99@easynet.fr>


Le 27 nov. 05 ? 19:56, Dan Shafer a ?crit :

> It's a proven fact that people who have more birthdays live longer.

Thanks Dan for this Good Luck methodology reminder..., something very  
closely binded with the points of view we are able to filter, the  
actions and responsabilities we are able to drive head, fine humour  
included :-)

-- 
Best Regards, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

psahores+ at +easynet.fr
sc+ at +sahores-conseil.com

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:      +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:      +33 1 64 45 05 33

<http://www.sahores-conseil.com/>

WEB/VoD/ACID-DB services over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivit?"




From michaell at unimelb.edu.au  Sun Nov 27 18:23:11 2005
From: michaell at unimelb.edu.au (Michael J. Lew)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 09:23:11 +1000
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <20051127044642.1BEEB8255CA@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051127044642.1BEEB8255CA@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <p05200f54bfafefa64d6a@[128.250.229.137]>

Without telling me how much each segment earns, it can only be 
misleading to tell me what fraction of the taxes they pay. What is 
the source of your information? Does it include the necessary detail 
of incomes? I'm guessing it doesn't.

At 10:46 PM -0600 26/11/05, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
>  > At the moment, in your country and mine, the very wealthy pay very 
>>  little tax.
>
>The top 1% earners in the US pay 34% of the taxes.
>The top 5% earners in the US pay 54% of the taxes.
>The top 50% earners in the US pay 97% of the taxes.
>
>If a wealthy person here is not paying much tax, it means they are 
>likely going to not be wealthy much longer.
>
>Dennis

-- 
Michael J. Lew

Senior Lecturer
Department of Pharmacology
The University of Melbourne
Parkville 3010
Victoria
Australia

Phone +613 8344 8304

**
New email address: michaell at unimelb.edu.au
**


From jbv.silences at club-internet.fr  Sun Nov 27 17:47:37 2005
From: jbv.silences at club-internet.fr (jbv)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 23:47:37 +0100
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
References: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<BE7F740D-746E-4C90-B0F5-4E4538E95536@writeme.com>
	<438A2253.4673C5DF@club-internet.fr>
	<E0EEDDEF-67D2-4FC5-BE2A-25418835B7B7@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <438A3788.EA568386@club-internet.fr>



Dennis,

Ok that's fine... but still I'm wondering : what (if anything) makes
Transcript different from other languages (beside its "almost" plain
english syntax ?
Doesn't it feature variables, loops, if-then-else structures, arrays,
functions, etc. just like so many other languages ?

so what makes it so attractive and loveable ?

Best;
JB


--



_________________________
Faith is a central nervous system disease, like Alzheimer or multiple sclerosis.




From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Sun Nov 27 17:45:24 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:45:24 -0800
Subject: Rev and User Accounts
Message-ID: <p06200700bfafd79e0e93@[10.0.1.201]>

Hello,

In an attempt to keep myself on-task while working at my computer, I 
created a new user account, without administrative privileges. We're 
on Macintosh OS 10.4. The administrator can grant or deny other users 
access to applications. (This is done under the heading of "parental 
controls.")

My plan was to lock myself out of the obvious 
time-sponge-applications. I wouldn't be able to use this stuff on 
impulse. I'd have to log out and log back in as the administrator. 
The slight delay and inconvenience might be an effective 
psychological barrier.

The problem: Revolution Dreamcard doesn't show up in the list of 
applications I can allow or disallow -- under "Parental Controls". 
(Revolution Dreamcard Player does show up.) I can try adding 
Revolution Dreamcard to the list of applications by using the 
"locate..." button. When I try to include Revolution that way, I get 
a dialog box that says, "Revolution Dreamcard doesn't work with the 
limitations you have selected." The attempt to put Revolution on the 
"allow" list is ignored.

I tried turning off all limitations on the "parental controls" 
screen. No help. I wondered if Rev needs access to certain helper 
applications. The only one I could think of was Quicktime Player. I 
added that one to the "allow" list, but I still can't add Revolution 
to the "allow" list.

If I turn off all parental controls, then Revolution works normally 
under the other account. But then the purpose of the other account is 
defeated.

Any suggestions?


Thanks in advance,


Tim


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Sun Nov 27 17:52:29 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:52:29 -0500
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <438A3788.EA568386@club-internet.fr>
References: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<BE7F740D-746E-4C90-B0F5-4E4538E95536@writeme.com>
	<438A2253.4673C5DF@club-internet.fr>
	<E0EEDDEF-67D2-4FC5-BE2A-25418835B7B7@writeme.com>
	<438A3788.EA568386@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <A46AEA11-E6C7-4468-9C30-35889EDE0A0C@conncoll.edu>


On Nov 27, 2005, at 5:47 PM, jbv wrote:

> Ok that's fine... but still I'm wondering : what (if anything) makes
> Transcript different from other languages (beside its "almost" plain
> english syntax ?
> Doesn't it feature variables, loops, if-then-else structures, arrays,
> functions, etc. just like so many other languages ?

Speaking as a beginner & ignoramus, but one who's used other  
languages for a variety of grow-your-own projects for many years, I'd  
say it really *is* different, and the superficial similarities (the  
kinds function calls and if-clauses any language, right down to ASM,  
needs) are misleading.

It's the message path that dominates everything, I think. When you  
keep it in mind you tend to make right decisions about design, large  
and small. When you forget about it, you don't just do inefficient  
work, you paint yourself into deeply bafflling corners.

Charles Hartman



From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Nov 27 18:01:51 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 23:01:51 +0000
Subject: Rev and User Accounts
In-Reply-To: <p06200700bfafd79e0e93@[10.0.1.201]>
References: <p06200700bfafd79e0e93@[10.0.1.201]>
Message-ID: <438A3ADF.90503@tweedly.net>

Timothy Miller wrote:

> Hello,
>
> In an attempt to keep myself on-task while working at my computer, I 
> created a new user account, without administrative privileges. We're 
> on Macintosh OS 10.4. The administrator can grant or deny other users 
> access to applications. (This is done under the heading of "parental 
> controls.")

> My plan was to lock myself out of the obvious 
> time-sponge-applications. I wouldn't be able to use this stuff on 
> impulse. I'd have to log out and log back in as the administrator. The 
> slight delay and inconvenience might be an effective psychological 
> barrier.


Sorry, Tim, I don't know enough about MacOS to help you.
But I do have one question ....

IMHO, the biggest "time-sponge application" if all is RunRev. I can 
spend hours in there, happily tweaking things, trying out things, adding 
features to my apps, playing with Revs features, etc.  So why do you 
want to make it available to your "focused" login.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date: 25/11/2005



From rjb at robelko.com  Sun Nov 27 18:43:04 2005
From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 00:43:04 +0100
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <B4D051B4-1F7A-4001-9420-45E101AB54B6@danshafer.com>
References: <20051126103555.99312.qmail@web32811.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<B4D051B4-1F7A-4001-9420-45E101AB54B6@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <a06110404bfaff48025a7@[192.168.1.103]>

>Frank.....
>
>Can you give us an example or two of where this pricing is common 
>among development tools? I see feature-crippled and time-limited 
>evaluation licensing all the time, but I can't honestly think of a 
>single development tool that has a free learning edition that you 
>upgrade to so you can deploy apps.
>

Latest release of CodeWarrior has gone that route: their product is 
free for hobbysts and one buys it to distribute products. But I see 
this as their exit strategy.

Robert


From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Sun Nov 27 18:49:03 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 15:49:03 -0800
Subject: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail
In-Reply-To: <a750999374ffda5c50ec0e0b1def551a@siphonophore.com>
References: <20051127112035.0C054825689@mail.runrev.com>
	<a750999374ffda5c50ec0e0b1def551a@siphonophore.com>
Message-ID: <p06200700bfaff4e5eb6e@[10.0.1.2]>

>scott,
>
>one thing that has stemmed the tide for me is to start putting your 
>email address on all your web posts as a java encoded text (there 
>are several schemes out there to do this) instead of straight html. 
>while this wont get rid of things immediately, it has slowed the 
>tide a lot for me and many clients over the last couple of years 
>since i started doing it. spam lists are constantly being generated 
>by spiders all the time looking for emails in html, so it does help 
>prevent you getting on new ones. im sure there are some spammers out 
>there that are now using bots to run the java scripts to see if they 
>get any email addresses back, but thats not as easy.
>
>its never ending war... you might also try and forward your email 
>over to a hosting account that has a spam filter on it.

My ISP has installed a spam filter called "Vanquish" that works, 
well... perfectly.

Vanquish doesn't attempt to filter by content, subject line or IP. 
Instead,legitimate senders not on my "allow" list get directed to a 
website where they have to type some graphic characters into a field. 
They only have to do it once. After that, they go on the allow list, 
unless I remove them. At first, I worried that legitimate senders 
would be put off. I've not heard a single complaint. The only comment 
has been, "Hey, where can I get this?"

My outgoing email gets added to my allow list. Bonded senders are 
also allowed, unless I exclude them.

Highly recommended.

Tim


From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Nov 27 19:25:02 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 00:25:02 +0000
Subject: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail
In-Reply-To: <p06200700bfaff4e5eb6e@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <20051127112035.0C054825689@mail.runrev.com>	<a750999374ffda5c50ec0e0b1def551a@siphonophore.com>
	<p06200700bfaff4e5eb6e@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <438A4E5E.7000001@tweedly.net>

Timothy Miller wrote:

>
> My ISP has installed a spam filter called "Vanquish" that works, 
> well... perfectly.
>
> Vanquish doesn't attempt to filter by content, subject line or IP. 
> Instead,legitimate senders not on my "allow" list get directed to a 
> website where they have to type some graphic characters into a field. 
> They only have to do it once. After that, they go on the allow list, 
> unless I remove them. At first, I worried that legitimate senders 
> would be put off. I've not heard a single complaint. The only comment 
> has been, "Hey, where can I get this?"
>
> My outgoing email gets added to my allow list. Bonded senders are also 
> allowed, unless I exclude them.

I've never tried any of these schemes, so I may be misunderstanding the 
details, but ...

if you send a message which can't be delivered (e.g. you mistyped the 
address, or your friend's email box is full, or their ISP is going out 
of business, or .....) then you would normally get a message sent to you 
to inform you of the non-delivery. These often come from some automated 
address which won't accept incoming email. It looks to me as though 
Vanquish will block them (ok, it will challenge them - but the automated 
sender address won't deliver mail to a real person), and so you'll not 
be informed.

Similar issues should happen with problems on some mail lists, such as 
emzlm, which warn you of delivery problems (e.g. including attachments 
if not allowed, including html if not allowed, etc.) by sending an 
automated email which won't get through.

Do you happen to know how it handles mail list (such as this one) which 
show the individual senders in the "from" list (but I know I haven't 
been challenged to get a message to you); does that mean it allows you 
to whiltelist by "Reply-to" rather by "From" address ?   And if so, 
isn't that a way for spam to get in, since a spammer can spoof reply-to 
addresses easily (assuming they have harvested email addresses from 
specific mail lists) ?

Even worse, if you are on an emzlm mail list, and for some reason you're 
ISP is bouncing messages temporarily, then you'll get a warning message 
- but it comes from the mail list administrator, not the mail list 
itself, and therefore may not get through.

(Or, in summary, I'm a bit skeptical about this overall approach :-)

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date: 25/11/2005



From see3d at writeme.com  Sun Nov 27 20:03:40 2005
From: see3d at writeme.com (Dennis Brown)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 20:03:40 -0500
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <A46AEA11-E6C7-4468-9C30-35889EDE0A0C@conncoll.edu>
References: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<BE7F740D-746E-4C90-B0F5-4E4538E95536@writeme.com>
	<438A2253.4673C5DF@club-internet.fr>
	<E0EEDDEF-67D2-4FC5-BE2A-25418835B7B7@writeme.com>
	<438A3788.EA568386@club-internet.fr>
	<A46AEA11-E6C7-4468-9C30-35889EDE0A0C@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <3DCAAE91-4D2C-44C7-AF91-E5A09BAD6B42@writeme.com>

Another thing that makes it different (part of the depth and  
complexity) is the type-less nature of containers.  You tell it what  
you want it to do generically, and it figures out how based on the  
kind of data you give it --even if you switched data types the next  
time through... Aaarrgh!

Dennis

On Nov 27, 2005, at 5:52 PM, Charles Hartman wrote:

>
> On Nov 27, 2005, at 5:47 PM, jbv wrote:
>
>> Ok that's fine... but still I'm wondering : what (if anything) makes
>> Transcript different from other languages (beside its "almost" plain
>> english syntax ?
>> Doesn't it feature variables, loops, if-then-else structures, arrays,
>> functions, etc. just like so many other languages ?
>
> Speaking as a beginner & ignoramus, but one who's used other  
> languages for a variety of grow-your-own projects for many years,  
> I'd say it really *is* different, and the superficial similarities  
> (the kinds function calls and if-clauses any language, right down  
> to ASM, needs) are misleading.
>
> It's the message path that dominates everything, I think. When you  
> keep it in mind you tend to make right decisions about design,  
> large and small. When you forget about it, you don't just do  
> inefficient work, you paint yourself into deeply bafflling corners.



From ianl at mac.com  Sun Nov 27 20:08:43 2005
From: ianl at mac.com (Ian Leigh)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 01:08:43 +0000
Subject: Referencing a variable?
Message-ID: <787FBCEB-8F94-4A9E-AF2B-2AF99754202B@mac.com>

Hello all,

I would like to do the following:

Put a variable name into another buffer variable.
Reference the actual variable but using the buffer variable.

So I only have the name of the variable in the buffer but I want to  
put a value into the actual variable only by using the variable name  
which is stored in the buffer.

Does this make sense and can it be done? I thought simply :

put 123 into "buffer"

might work but it doesn't work that way. I have also tried various  
adds and used the value command too but I can't seem to figure it  
out. Any insight would be appreciated.

Cheers.


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Nov 27 20:17:35 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:17:35 -0800
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <3DCAAE91-4D2C-44C7-AF91-E5A09BAD6B42@writeme.com>
References: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<BE7F740D-746E-4C90-B0F5-4E4538E95536@writeme.com>
	<438A2253.4673C5DF@club-internet.fr>
	<E0EEDDEF-67D2-4FC5-BE2A-25418835B7B7@writeme.com>
	<438A3788.EA568386@club-internet.fr>
	<A46AEA11-E6C7-4468-9C30-35889EDE0A0C@conncoll.edu>
	<3DCAAE91-4D2C-44C7-AF91-E5A09BAD6B42@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <41425925-2952-4A29-A0F4-C9D2F4987FAC@danshafer.com>

One man's "Aaarrgh!" is another man's "Ahhhhhhh."

On Nov 27, 2005, at 5:03 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:

> Another thing that makes it different (part of the depth and  
> complexity) is the type-less nature of containers.  You tell it  
> what you want it to do generically, and it figures out how based on  
> the kind of data you give it --even if you switched data types the  
> next time through... Aaarrgh!



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From alex at tweedly.net  Sun Nov 27 20:19:20 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 01:19:20 +0000
Subject: Referencing a variable?
In-Reply-To: <787FBCEB-8F94-4A9E-AF2B-2AF99754202B@mac.com>
References: <787FBCEB-8F94-4A9E-AF2B-2AF99754202B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <438A5B18.4070100@tweedly.net>

Ian Leigh wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I would like to do the following:
>
> Put a variable name into another buffer variable.
> Reference the actual variable but using the buffer variable.
>
> So I only have the name of the variable in the buffer but I want to  
> put a value into the actual variable only by using the variable name  
> which is stored in the buffer.
>
> Does this make sense and can it be done? I thought simply :
>
> put 123 into "buffer"
>
> might work but it doesn't work that way. I have also tried various  
> adds and used the value command too but I can't seem to figure it  
> out. Any insight would be appreciated.

Here's *an* answer - I think it might be the answer to the question you 
were asking :-)

put 123 into myVariable    -- give it an initial value
put "myVariable" into otherVariable   -- put its name into another variable
do "put 456 into " & otherVariable    -- use that other variable to 
access the original one
put myVariable & cr after msg    -- and output it to check we succeeded

this should put out 456, showing that the 3rd line did indeed do what we 
wanted.

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date: 25/11/2005



From Stgoldberg at aol.com  Sun Nov 27 20:19:52 2005
From: Stgoldberg at aol.com (Stgoldberg at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 20:19:52 EST
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
Message-ID: <202.ed29528.30bbb538@aol.com>

Different people learn in different ways.   In my own case, it is 
indispensable to read through entire manuals first in a systematic way.   That's the way 
I learned Hypercard (Danny Goodman's and Dan Shafer's books), Supercard, 
mTropolis, Revolution (including Dan Shafer's book), Photoshop, Illustrator, Bryce, 
Vue,   and a whole host of other programs.   I agree that once having gone 
through a manual, practice, repetition, and experimenting are vital to mastery 
of a system.   Reading the manual first, though (at the very least an excellent 
Getting Started manual), gives the reader an idea of the sort of things that 
a program is capable of doing, which then allows the programmer to plan doable 
things.   Not reading the manual results in a lot of gaps in understanding 
what a program can and cannot do.   Thus, proper documentation is very 
important.   The problem is not that Revolution is a bad program.   To the contrary, it 
is a superb program, which is why I've   switched to Revolution as a 
replacement for the now-defunct mTropolis.   The problem is that it is very difficult 
for a novice, who has not already learned a related language (like HyperCard) 
to get into using Revolution without good documentation.   And even with a 
scripting background, Revolution still needs a better description of its basic 
features.   I've read the entire User manual.   Can someone tell me, for 
instance, where there is any basic organized documention as to   the key features of 
the Property Inspector, which is central to the development process?   In 
order to survive, Revolution will need to attract new users.   Proper 
documentation is very important to attracting new users.

Steve Goldberg 


From revdan at danshafer.com  Sun Nov 27 20:20:41 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:20:41 -0800
Subject: Referencing a variable?
In-Reply-To: <787FBCEB-8F94-4A9E-AF2B-2AF99754202B@mac.com>
References: <787FBCEB-8F94-4A9E-AF2B-2AF99754202B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <05B3827B-594B-4871-82B0-CC71DA756126@danshafer.com>

Not sure exactly what you're trying to do (or why) but check out the  
value function in the docs.

For a simple example:

put 42 into x
put "x" into buffer1
put value(buffer1)

produces 42 as a result.

Is that what you wanted to do?


On Nov 27, 2005, at 5:08 PM, Ian Leigh wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I would like to do the following:
>
> Put a variable name into another buffer variable.
> Reference the actual variable but using the buffer variable.
>
> So I only have the name of the variable in the buffer but I want to  
> put a value into the actual variable only by using the variable  
> name which is stored in the buffer.
>
> Does this make sense and can it be done? I thought simply :
>
> put 123 into "buffer"
>
> might work but it doesn't work that way. I have also tried various  
> adds and used the value command too but I can't seem to figure it  
> out. Any insight would be appreciated.
>
> Cheers.
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From pixelbird at interisland.net  Sun Nov 27 20:37:14 2005
From: pixelbird at interisland.net (Ken Norris)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:37:14 -0800
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <20051127234808.5E6B0825555@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051127234808.5E6B0825555@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <f7a1fd5b9a25211a6624a30d46a54c18@interisland.net>

Hi JB,

> Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 23:47:37 +0100
> From: jbv <jbv.silences at club-internet.fr>
> Subject: Re: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
>
> Ok that's fine... but still I'm wondering : what (if anything) makes
> Transcript different from other languages (beside its "almost" plain
> english syntax ?
> Doesn't it feature variables, loops, if-then-else structures, arrays,
> functions, etc. just like so many other languages ?
>
> so what makes it so attractive and loveable ?

Maybe it's gran-pappy.....HyperCard, i.e., its developers, and the 
community of people who gathered around its warming fire. Other people 
did programming, but HC scripters had FUN, more fun than anybody. We 
all just fell in love with it. With it we could, with reasonable ease, 
make our little computers do just about anything, make our non-Mac user 
friends salivate in jealousy, and formed a community of people who are 
still fast friends and co-workers today, and won the future of xTalks. 
Many of those people are right here, right now.

All the best,
Ken N.



From ianl at mac.com  Sun Nov 27 20:44:11 2005
From: ianl at mac.com (Ian Leigh)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 01:44:11 +0000
Subject: Referencing a variable?
In-Reply-To: <438A5B18.4070100@tweedly.net>
References: <787FBCEB-8F94-4A9E-AF2B-2AF99754202B@mac.com>
	<438A5B18.4070100@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <F1ECB557-F356-4C2D-975B-DD619F74817B@mac.com>

Many thanks Alex for giving me this solution. I don't understand why  
it will only work with the do command. If you try exactly the same  
command normally it doesn't work, why is that?

Cheers

Ian


On 28 Nov 2005, at 01:19, Alex Tweedly wrote:

> Ian Leigh wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I would like to do the following:
>>
>> Put a variable name into another buffer variable.
>> Reference the actual variable but using the buffer variable.
>>
>> So I only have the name of the variable in the buffer but I want  
>> to  put a value into the actual variable only by using the  
>> variable name  which is stored in the buffer.
>>
>> Does this make sense and can it be done? I thought simply :
>>
>> put 123 into "buffer"
>>
>> might work but it doesn't work that way. I have also tried  
>> various  adds and used the value command too but I can't seem to  
>> figure it  out. Any insight would be appreciated.
>
> Here's *an* answer - I think it might be the answer to the question  
> you were asking :-)
>
> put 123 into myVariable    -- give it an initial value
> put "myVariable" into otherVariable   -- put its name into another  
> variable
> do "put 456 into " & otherVariable    -- use that other variable to  
> access the original one
> put myVariable & cr after msg    -- and output it to check we  
> succeeded
>
> this should put out 456, showing that the 3rd line did indeed do  
> what we wanted.
>
> -- 
> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date:  
> 25/11/2005
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Nov 27 20:49:14 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:49:14 -0800
Subject: Referencing a variable?
In-Reply-To: <F1ECB557-F356-4C2D-975B-DD619F74817B@mac.com>
References: <787FBCEB-8F94-4A9E-AF2B-2AF99754202B@mac.com>	<438A5B18.4070100@tweedly.net>
	<F1ECB557-F356-4C2D-975B-DD619F74817B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <438A621A.4000404@fourthworld.com>

Ian Leigh wrote:
 > I would like to do the following:
 >
 > Put a variable name into another buffer variable.
 > Reference the actual variable but using the buffer variable.
 >
 > So I only have the name of the variable in the buffer but I want  to
 > put a value into the actual variable only by using the  variable
 > name  which is stored in the buffer.

Turning the problem inside out, could it be stated that the goal is to 
be able to refer to a variable without knowing the variable's name in 
advance?

If so, you might consider using array notation:

   put "MyName" into x
   put "123" into tBuffer[x]

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com




From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Sun Nov 27 20:51:13 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:51:13 -0800
Subject: visualize fields?
Message-ID: <p06200700bfb01216c2f8@[10.0.1.201]>

In hyperCard, choosing the field tool caused all fields to be faintly outlined.

As I recall, though I'm not certain, some key combination outlined 
even the invisible fields, and fields under other fields, when the 
field tool was chosen.

Anyway, just outlining fields was very helpful for working with 
fields that have no border and sometimes have no contents.

Is there a way to make Revolution do this, or something like it? If 
not, should there be?


Cheers,


Tim


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Nov 27 21:25:54 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 20:25:54 -0600
Subject: Rev and User Accounts
In-Reply-To: <p06200700bfafd79e0e93@[10.0.1.201]>
References: <p06200700bfafd79e0e93@[10.0.1.201]>
Message-ID: <438A6AB2.70504@hyperactivesw.com>

Timothy Miller wrote:

> The problem: Revolution Dreamcard doesn't show up in the list of 
> applications I can allow or disallow -- under "Parental Controls". 
> (Revolution Dreamcard Player does show up.) 

Possibly a permissions problem. Do a "Get Info" on Dreamcard Player and 
note the permissions in the "Details" section of the "Ownership and 
permissions" pane. Then look at the permissions on DreamCard and make 
sure they are the same.

If that doesn't work, try removing or archiving the Player so it isn't 
on the disk any more. Both DC and Rev Player use the same creator code, 
so it may be that OS X thinks they are duplicate apps.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Nov 27 21:33:11 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:33:11 -0800
Subject: Pricing / entry cost for this tool
In-Reply-To: <20051127123418.28788.qmail@web32807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051127123418.28788.qmail@web32807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <692170210.20051127183311@ahsoftware.net>

Frank-

Sunday, November 27, 2005, 4:34:17 AM, you wrote:

> No, I wasn't thinking of MS.  It was Borland.  I Have Learning Editions of theirs.

Interesting. They don't seem to be available from their website, and
Google searches don't come up with anything.

(I didn't really think you had MS in mind...)

So what sorts of limitations do the Learning Editions set up for you
that my full versions would let me do? I take it that you can still
compile and create apps that don't require the IDE to run? Are you
somehow prevented from distributing these apps? And how much did you
have to pay for these versions?

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun Nov 27 21:35:23 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 20:35:23 -0600
Subject: Small Print Problem
In-Reply-To: <b19d8efc77b1c57d4b22824cddbe7d63@cox.net>
References: <b19d8efc77b1c57d4b22824cddbe7d63@cox.net>
Message-ID: <438A6CEB.7040004@hyperactivesw.com>

Robert Presender wrote:

> The first page prints fine. Using .88 as printScale, the textsize of 
> ListField is
>  between 9 and 10.  Subsequent pages,  containing  only the text of 
> ListField,
> use revPrintText but the printed text size is the initial size of 10.
> 
> Since I don't know how to emulate a printScale in revPrintText,  I 
> change the
>  textSize of ListField to 9.  This works fine but the text appearance is 
> a little smaller
>  than the first page. I would like subsequent pages  to be scaled like 
> the first page.

I think the only way to make sure you really get a good size match is to 
use the same scale for all pages in the printout. Leave the field font 
size alone, and instead, scroll the field via script and print each page 
sequentially using the same settings. See the "pageHeights" property, 
which reports the scroll settings required to print each page of the 
field. That's what revPrintText uses, actually.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Nov 27 21:36:23 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 00:36:23 -0200
Subject: Referencing a variable?
In-Reply-To: <438A621A.4000404@fourthworld.com>
References: <787FBCEB-8F94-4A9E-AF2B-2AF99754202B@mac.com>
	<438A5B18.4070100@tweedly.net>
	<F1ECB557-F356-4C2D-975B-DD619F74817B@mac.com>
	<438A621A.4000404@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <EE500A44-2C59-49A0-8F06-1E91B58F4885@mac.com>


On Nov 27, 2005, at 11:49 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Turning the problem inside out, could it be stated that the goal is  
> to be able to refer to a variable without knowing the variable's  
> name in advance?
>
> If so, you might consider using array notation:
>
>   put "MyName" into x
>   put "123" into tBuffer[x]

Two solutions to this problems were quoted on previous mails. One  
with array notation above this one, other with do command. The do  
command will execute the string passed to it, beware that depending  
on how you acquire/build this string can leave you with exploitable  
code. For example if the user enter a string with quotes, your whole  
string is now mixed, or worse enter transcript code, things will get  
executed. Use do only when no other option is available and always  
double check your routines so that no rogue string ever comes near  
the do statement...

Cheers
andre

PS: ... and yes, I am paranoid. :P

From Stgoldberg at aol.com  Sun Nov 27 21:40:49 2005
From: Stgoldberg at aol.com (Stgoldberg at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:40:49 EST
Subject: Problem with correct cursor showing up
Message-ID: <2b5.b52cf0.30bbc831@aol.com>

Hope someone can help with the following problem.   I want to program a 
button so that the cursor changes to "hand" on MouseEnter and changes back to 
"Arrow" on mouseLeave.   I inserted the following script (using Macintosh OS X 
Panther):

on MouseEnter
  set the cursor to hand
  set the lockcursor to true
end MouseEnter

on mouseLeave
  set the cursor to arrow
end mouseLeave

While this works in the unbuilt program, once it is built the cursor show up 
as "Watch" rather than "Hand"   on both Macintosh and   Windows.   Anyone have 
a suggestion?   Thanks.
Steve Goldberg


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Nov 27 22:23:39 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:23:39 -0600
Subject: Referencing a variable?
In-Reply-To: <F1ECB557-F356-4C2D-975B-DD619F74817B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BFAFD45B.308AB%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/27/05 7:44 PM, "Ian Leigh" <ianl at mac.com> wrote:

> Many thanks Alex for giving me this solution. I don't understand why
> it will only work with the do command. If you try exactly the same
> command normally it doesn't work, why is that?

Well, because when you say:

  put 123 into "buffer"

Rev immediately sees "buffer" as a string, not a variable, and therefore
can't "put" anything into it, and so you can't compile the script.

And if you do:

  put 123 into value("buffer")

Rev can't compile this either because the value of the string "buffer" is
"buffer" and the script compiler doesn't understand that this is supposed to
be a variable.

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Nov 27 22:25:12 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:25:12 -0600
Subject: visualize fields?
In-Reply-To: <p06200700bfb01216c2f8@[10.0.1.201]>
Message-ID: <BFAFD4B8.308AD%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/27/05 7:51 PM, "Timothy Miller" <gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com>
wrote:

> In hyperCard, choosing the field tool caused all fields to be faintly
> outlined.
> 
> As I recall, though I'm not certain, some key combination outlined
> even the invisible fields, and fields under other fields, when the
> field tool was chosen.
> 
> Anyway, just outlining fields was very helpful for working with
> fields that have no border and sometimes have no contents.
> 
> Is there a way to make Revolution do this, or something like it? If
> not, should there be?

There isn't AFAIK, but it wouldn't be hard to make a little utility that did
this whenever a key combination was pressed. Whether there *should* be is a
matter of opinion... personally I don't think so (seems like a neat utility
to me), but that's just me.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 27 22:25:12 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 19:25:12 -0800
Subject: Referencing a variable?
In-Reply-To: <F1ECB557-F356-4C2D-975B-DD619F74817B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BFAFB898.310FF%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

You want to use one variable to hold the name of another variable.  You need
to think just a bit more correctly.  (Skip to the last 2 paragraphs if you
wish.)  First consider that xTalk thinks the following way.

put 123 into topDrawer
-- puts characters "123" into a variable named "topDrawer"
--from now on, using variable container 'topDrawer' is using "123"

add 1 to topDrawer 
-- add 1 (as a number) to topDrawer (as a number, if possible)
-- topDrawer is now  a string "124"
put char 3 of topDrawer into thirdChar
-- thirdChar is now a string "4"

---put "123" into "topDrawer" == error 'bad chunk destination'
put "123" into topDrawer -- ok, since topDrawer is not a reserved word
put 123 into topDrawer --again ok.  In xTalk these are the same

--but now to get the value of a variable named "jimsVarName"
--        and use that value as the name of another variable:
--run these script lines, step thru Variable Watcher and observe
on testMe
  breakpoint
  put "topDrawer" into jimsVarName  --   the STRING "topDrawer"
  put 123 into topDrawer --   set the VALUE of variable topDrawer
  put ("add 1 "& "to " & jimsVarName) into commandStrToExecute
  --note what Variable Watcher is showing at this point
  do commandStrToExecute  --   as if it were an xTalk script line
  answer "the variable " & jimsVarName & " now has chars (" & topDrawer &
")"
end testMe
--end script lines

If you use an array to do this, it is like using aBunchOfCubbyHoles[] where
aBunchOfCubbyHoles[2] is the second slot.  The Post Office uses an array on
a wall to hold mail.  POBox[1145] holds mail accessible using key 1145.  The
label on the front of the box is the ?key? we refer to in arrays.  Thus, if
there were 4 apartment mail boxes labeled ?Smith, Jones, Adams, Birch?, the
array ?keys? would be those names, apartmentBox[?Smith?],
apartmentBox[?Jones?], apartmentBox[?Adams?], apartmentBox[?Birch?]...
holding mostly bills and junk mail (physical spam).

Hope this helps you and others.  Variable Watcher is a very valuable tool !
Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 11/27/05 5:44 PM, "Ian Leigh" <ianl at mac.com> wrote:

> Many thanks Alex for giving me this solution. I don't understand why
> it will only work with the do command. If you try exactly the same
> command normally it doesn't work, why is that?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
> On 28 Nov 2005, at 01:19, Alex Tweedly wrote:
> 
>> Ian Leigh wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> 
>>> I would like to do the following:
>>> 
>>> Put a variable name into another buffer variable.
>>> Reference the actual variable but using the buffer variable.
>>> 
>>> So I only have the name of the variable in the buffer but I want
>>> to  put a value into the actual variable only by using the
>>> variable name  which is stored in the buffer.
>>> 
>>> Does this make sense and can it be done? I thought simply :
>>> 
>>> put 123 into "buffer"
>>> 
>>> might work but it doesn't work that way. I have also tried
>>> various  adds and used the value command too but I can't seem to
>>> figure it  out. Any insight would be appreciated.
>> 
>> Here's *an* answer - I think it might be the answer to the question
>> you were asking :-)
>> 
>> put 123 into myVariable    -- give it an initial value
>> put "myVariable" into otherVariable   -- put its name into another
>> variable
>> do "put 456 into " & otherVariable    -- use that other variable to
>> access the original one
>> put myVariable & cr after msg    -- and output it to check we
>> succeeded
>> 
>> this should put out 456, showing that the 3rd line did indeed do
>> what we wanted.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date:
>> 25/11/2005
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Sun Nov 27 22:32:53 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 19:32:53 -0800
Subject: Rev and User Accounts
In-Reply-To: <438A3ADF.90503@tweedly.net>
References: <p06200700bfafd79e0e93@[10.0.1.201]> <438A3ADF.90503@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <p06200700bfb02788c98e@[10.0.1.2]>

>Timothy Miller wrote:


--snip--

>>My plan was to lock myself out of the obvious 
>>time-sponge-applications. I wouldn't be able to use this stuff on 
>>impulse. I'd have to log out and log back in as the administrator. 
>>The slight delay and inconvenience might be an effective 
>>psychological barrier.

Alex Tweedly Replied:

>
>Sorry, Tim, I don't know enough about MacOS to help you.
>But I do have one question ....
>
>IMHO, the biggest "time-sponge application" if all is RunRev. I can 
>spend hours in there, happily tweaking things, trying out things, 
>adding features to my apps, playing with Revs features, etc.


Hi Alex,


Yeah, I know what you mean. I do that too, except I can't really say 
I enjoy it. Well, sometimes it is intellectually stimulating, like a 
good puzzle, but it sure doesn't beat paddling a kayak in Hawaii. It 
seems like a sick compulsion sometimes. My favorite foible the 
"convenient" new feature will never save me as much time and trouble 
as it takes me to write and debug.

>So why do you want to make it available to your "focused" login.


I run my business on a bunch of integrated Rev stacks, formerly 
hyperCard stacks. The good news is, if it breaks, I can fix it. The 
bad news is, if it breaks, I *must* fix it.

Thanks for asking,


Tim

>
>--
>Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net
>
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date: 25/11/2005
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Nov 27 22:49:18 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 01:49:18 -0200
Subject: Rev and User Accounts
In-Reply-To: <438A6AB2.70504@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <p06200700bfafd79e0e93@[10.0.1.201]>
	<438A6AB2.70504@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <D5BD95BD-5A5E-42D3-A626-3D2766CE1FF4@mac.com>


On Nov 28, 2005, at 12:25 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> If that doesn't work, try removing or archiving the Player so it  
> isn't on the disk any more. Both DC and Rev Player use the same  
> creator code, so it may be that OS X thinks they are duplicate apps.

If I remember correctly, MacOS will use the app with the latest  
modification date as the default app if there's more than one app for  
the same creator code. So first check the date for the player and for  
dreamcard, if the player is younger than rev, use touch command to  
change revolution date and try again, I do think rev will be the new  
default app for the creator code... (but it's 2:00 AM here, I might  
be inventing this on my memory...)

Cheers
andre

From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Sun Nov 27 22:59:51 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 19:59:51 -0800
Subject: Rev and User Accounts
In-Reply-To: <p06200700bfb02788c98e@[10\.0\.1\.2]>
References: <p06200700bfafd79e0e93@[10.0.1.201]> <438A3ADF.90503@tweedly.net>
	<p06200700bfb02788c98e@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <1447369977.20051127195951@ahsoftware.net>

Tim-

Sunday, November 27, 2005, 7:32:53 PM, you wrote:

> I run my business on a bunch of integrated Rev stacks, formerly
> hyperCard stacks. The good news is, if it breaks, I can fix it. The 
> bad news is, if it breaks, I *must* fix it.

ROTFL

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Sun Nov 27 23:19:02 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 22:19:02 -0600
Subject: DLL usage in RunRev
In-Reply-To: <f54296680511270312x2488775aweec57e3b455b3a58@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BFAFE156.308C0%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/27/05 5:12 AM, "Alessandro Manotti" <ale870 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> can someone help me to understand how to use a Windows DLL in RunRev?

Allesandro, we just went over this topic a few weeks back. It's detailed in
the tip at my site:

http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/ext002.htm

Basically an DLL is either built exclusively for Revolution using the
headers/source provided in the Externals kit, or it is a third party DLL (a
"normal" DLL"). Revolution externals are loaded with the "set the externals
to <list of externals>" command (see "externals" in the Transcript
Dictionary), and third party DLLs *can* be used, but you have to provide an
intermediary to call them (see the tip).

Hope this helps,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Nov 27 23:19:49 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 20:19:49 -0800
Subject: Rev and User Accounts
In-Reply-To: <438A6AB2.70504@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <p06200700bfafd79e0e93@[10.0.1.201]>
	<438A6AB2.70504@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <438A8565.7030304@fourthworld.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:
> Both DC and Rev Player use the same creator code, 
> so it may be that OS X thinks they are duplicate apps.

Is there a benefit to having those apps use duplicate creator codes, or 
should we Bugzilla that?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From soapdog at mac.com  Sun Nov 27 23:44:24 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 02:44:24 -0200
Subject: Rev and User Accounts
In-Reply-To: <438A8565.7030304@fourthworld.com>
References: <p06200700bfafd79e0e93@[10.0.1.201]>
	<438A6AB2.70504@hyperactivesw.com>
	<438A8565.7030304@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <5B2EA6AD-145F-4E05-B3A1-745A68498D59@mac.com>


On Nov 28, 2005, at 2:19 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> J. Landman Gay wrote:
>> Both DC and Rev Player use the same creator code, so it may be  
>> that OS X thinks they are duplicate apps.
>
> Is there a benefit to having those apps use duplicate creator  
> codes, or should we Bugzilla that?
>

If they have different codes, would double clicking from the finder  
works? Don't macos use creator codes to tag the documents created by  
the app and to decide which app opens each file type?

PS: ... I do remember that an app could register for more than one  
file type, but I don't recall how...

Andre


> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Managing Editor, revJournal
>  _______________________________________________________
>  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun Nov 27 23:57:46 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 20:57:46 -0800
Subject: Rev and User Accounts
In-Reply-To: <5B2EA6AD-145F-4E05-B3A1-745A68498D59@mac.com>
References: <p06200700bfafd79e0e93@[10.0.1.201]>	<438A6AB2.70504@hyperactivesw.com>	<438A8565.7030304@fourthworld.com>
	<5B2EA6AD-145F-4E05-B3A1-745A68498D59@mac.com>
Message-ID: <438A8E4A.5080103@fourthworld.com>

Andre Garzia wrote:

> On Nov 28, 2005, at 2:19 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> J. Landman Gay wrote:
>>> Both DC and Rev Player use the same creator code, so it may be  that 
>>> OS X thinks they are duplicate apps.
>>
>> Is there a benefit to having those apps use duplicate creator  codes, 
>> or should we Bugzilla that?
> 
> If they have different codes, would double clicking from the finder  
> works? Don't macos use creator codes to tag the documents created by  
> the app and to decide which app opens each file type?

Rather than leave it up to guesswork and prayer, there could be some 
intentionality behind the use of creator codes and file types:

The Rev IDE is used for development, and the Player is used for 
deployment. Each has a very distinct role, so why confuse the two?

.rev cold remain in common use for development, and .rvp for deployment 
with Rev Player.

The Distribution Builder (or any five-minute plugin) could take take of 
changing the creator code and file type as needed for deployment.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 00:07:27 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:07:27 +1000
Subject: Problem with correct cursor showing up
In-Reply-To: <2b5.b52cf0.30bbc831@aol.com>
References: <2b5.b52cf0.30bbc831@aol.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511272107s60be0e86r43a7ba3e9ce2c52e@mail.gmail.com>

> Hope someone can help with the following problem.   I want to program a
> button so that the cursor changes to "hand" on MouseEnter and changes back to
> "Arrow" on mouseLeave.   I inserted the following script (using Macintosh OS X
> Panther):
>
> on MouseEnter
>   set the cursor to hand
>   set the lockcursor to true
> end MouseEnter
>
> on mouseLeave
>   set the cursor to arrow
> end mouseLeave
>
> While this works in the unbuilt program, once it is built the cursor show up
> as "Watch" rather than "Hand"   on both Macintosh and   Windows.   Anyone have
> a suggestion?   Thanks.

In the Standalone settings, you might be best to tell it you will set
the required inclusions and make sure "Cursors" is checked.

Cheers,
Sarah


From katir at hindu.org  Mon Nov 28 00:28:23 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 19:28:23 -1000
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about whingeing
In-Reply-To: <4388D42B.8020503@fourthworld.com>
References: <20051126180005.A21F08254A4@mail.runrev.com>
	<53c68b243f6cd8e75c901b75fc15d974@siphonophore.com>
	<4388D42B.8020503@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <DCBA3982-7E7E-408E-8FDA-ED974CBE1355@hindu.org>

Second that... I've been using Metacard and RunRev now for what...ten  
years? can't remember when I switched from Supercard... in that whole  
time  think I had 4 corrupt stacks. All the work of which (script  
wise) was easily recovered by simply opening the broken stack in  
BBEdit and copying out my scripts.

I think this qualifies as about as  "Rock Solid!" as you can get...  
and I use Rev intensively, every day... not for commercial apps, but  
Rev apps drive key in-house applications for Hinduism Today  
International Magazine and Himalayan Academy Publications.

Things you can do that still amaze me: like today in 2 hours I ripped  
through 1447 old web files, fixed links... re-wired them all, removed  
code, inserting new code and had the book up on the distribution  
server before lunch... You just don't get this kind of productivity  
with *anything* else I have ever used on a computer. And xTalk is the  
only language I know....

vs: the Adobe environment we live in here where we experience  
literally dozens of file corruptions every quarter (IDCS is getting  
better though... so it's less these days)

Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
katir at hindu.org

www.HimalayanAcademy.com
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Hindu.org


On Nov 26, 2005, at 11:31 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Corruption is not impossible with any file format, but for the  
> reasons described in those posts it's exremely rare with Rev,  
> certainly orders of magnitude more frequent in any other xTalk or  
> even FileMaker Pro.



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Nov 28 00:29:12 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 23:29:12 -0600
Subject: Scripting conference - text munging with log available
Message-ID: <438A95A8.6030603@hyperactivesw.com>

The final scripting conference stack on Text Munging (with Regex) by 
Alex Tweedly is now available for download. This copy includes the 
online conference chat, which explained some concepts in more depth. 
This was our last conference in the series, so grab this one and have 
the whole set.

<http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences>

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Mon Nov 28 01:16:36 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 22:16:36 -0800
Subject: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail
In-Reply-To: <438A4E5E.7000001@tweedly.net>
References: <20051127112035.0C054825689@mail.runrev.com>
	<a750999374ffda5c50ec0e0b1def551a@siphonophore.com>
	<p06200700bfaff4e5eb6e@[10.0.1.2]> <438A4E5E.7000001@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <p06200701bfb0499d961a@[10.0.1.201]>

>Timothy Miller wrote:
>
>>
>>My ISP has installed a spam filter called "Vanquish" that works, 
>>well... perfectly.
>>
>--snip--


Alex Tweedly replied:

>I've never tried any of these schemes, so I may be misunderstanding 
>the details, but ...

>if you send a message which can't be delivered (e.g. you mistyped 
>the address, or your friend's email box is full, or their ISP is 
>going out of business, or .....) then you would normally get a 
>message sent to you to inform you of the non-delivery. These often 
>come from some automated address which won't accept incoming email. 
>It looks to me as though Vanquish will block them (ok, it will 
>challenge them - but the automated sender address won't deliver mail 
>to a real person), and so you'll not be informed.


I hadn't thought of that. It is possible to view all blocked mail on 
a web page. Wanted emails are easily released or added to the allow 
list. But that's laborious. The whole point of this scheme is to 
avoid viewing blocked mail. It's possible that Vanquish would 
recognize a bounced email I have sent. I really don't know. It's not 
a big concern for me, on the address Vanquish filters.

>
>Similar issues should happen with problems on some mail lists, such 
>as emzlm, which warn you of delivery problems (e.g. including 
>attachments if not allowed, including html if not allowed, etc.) by 
>sending an automated email which won't get through.


The user can allow an entire domain name, and it has special features 
for handling email lists. It's possible that some such mail would be 
blocked. This would concern some users more than others.

>
>Do you happen to know how it handles mail list (such as this one) 
>which show the individual senders in the "from" list (but I know I 
>haven't been challenged to get a message to you); does that mean it 
>allows you to whiltelist by "Reply-to" rather by "From" address ? 
>And if so, isn't that a way for spam to get in, since a spammer can 
>spoof reply-to addresses easily (assuming they have harvested email 
>addresses from specific mail lists) ?

This topic is a bit too technical for me. I allow a few common domain 
names, and a few email lists are on the allow list. A few spams leak 
through, occasionally, because spammers have spoofed return 
addresses. The number is very small.

>
>Even worse, if you are on an emzlm mail list, and for some reason 
>you're ISP is bouncing messages temporarily, then you'll get a 
>warning message - but it comes from the mail list administrator, not 
>the mail list itself, and therefore may not get through.


I don't know what emzlm is.

When I began using it, I checked out the withheld mail, to identify 
addresses and domains I might want to add to the allow list. I spot 
check it occasionally. That seems to identify most problems.

Bonded senders get through, too. They guarantee payment of a cent or 
two per unwanted email. Spammers won't make that kind of commitment 
of course. I don't know if this arrangement is catching on. I'd bond 
my own email, but never quite figured out how.

>
>(Or, in summary, I'm a bit skeptical about this overall approach :-)


Yeah, I see what you mean. I can live with the downside.

Come to think of it, I only use Vanquish with one email address. 
Vanquish solved a dire problem for me. I've had the address for 
years, but can't abandon it for another year or so, for reasons I 
won't bother you with. It gets up to 500 spams per day. But 
approximately zero spams per day sent to that address get past 
Vanquish. The important messages, including those from unknown 
senders I want to hear from get thru just fine.

I use other, newer email addresses for important business, all with 
my own domain name. I reserve one address for all but a few email 
lists. I don't filter those with Vanquish, though I have that option. 
I try to reserve different addresses for specialized purposes, so 
they can be abandoned more conveniently, if needed, and can be 
filtered with Vanquish conveniently, if needed. I get very little 
spam on the newer addresses, even though they are a couple of years 
old now. I've learned not to be annoyed by a few spams per day. That 
used to bug the heck out of me, before the number climbed into triple 
digits.

Now that I've given it more thought, thanks to your thoughtful 
comments, Vanquish seems one of several promising-but-imperfect 
anti-spam strategies; it will suit some users better than others.

I hope this is of general interest, even though OT.

Cheers,


Tim


From mcdomi at free.fr  Mon Nov 28 03:13:11 2005
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 09:13:11 +0100
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <3DCAAE91-4D2C-44C7-AF91-E5A09BAD6B42@writeme.com>
Message-ID: <1h6qbcx.ymwj8h13fvv2fM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Dennis Brown <see3d at writeme.com> wrote:

> Another thing that makes it different (part of the depth and  
> complexity) is the type-less nature of containers. 

Unlike AppleScript ;->

always baffled by type problems in AppleScript...

wonder why Apple didn't make Hypertalk system-wide
(apart reinventing the wheel...)

-- 
Revolutionario



From ale870 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 03:23:49 2005
From: ale870 at gmail.com (Alessandro Manotti)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 09:23:49 +0100
Subject: DLL usage in RunRev
In-Reply-To: <BFAFE156.308C0%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <f54296680511270312x2488775aweec57e3b455b3a58@mail.gmail.com>
	<BFAFE156.308C0%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <f54296680511280023y2c32e57bw8fe9f612d8af28a5@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for suggestions and links ;-)

But I noticed a bit of confusion about this argument (inside forum and
mailing-list, and RunRev documentation).

I will try to be more specific.

Please read the this (from mailing list):

============================================================
Hi Eric,

here's the script from MetaCard's stack components...

on mouseUp
  local f
  if the platform is "Win32"
  then put "*.dll" into f
  else put "*" into f
  answer file "Choose an external:" with "external" with filter f
  if it is not empty then
    set the itemDelimiter to "/"
    if field "List" is not empty
    then put return after field "List"
    put the last item of it after field "List"
    set the externals of stack the label of button "Stack Name" to field
"List"
  end if
end mouseUp

============================================================

Author says it functions correctly.
But the RunRev documentation about "externals" suggests to close
(destroy) and open stack.

What's the right procedure (how to use externals and close/open stack
without loosing externals configuration)?

More:
let's suppose I need to use a generic DLL (not RunRev specific). And
let's suppose this dll is already registered.
Can you suggest the the smartest method to register and use it?

I tried to use some windows dll (just to try) using the previous code,
but nothing happened (only errors...). My second problem is I have not
a dll to test (my application must be able to use any dll, based on a
script supplied from another program...).

So... can you suggest me a proven method to use a generic windows dll?

Last item (I'm sorry): and about ".so" Linux files? Or Linux dynamic library?

Thank you in advance for your help!

--Alessandro








On 11/28/05, Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:
> On 11/27/05 5:12 AM, "Alessandro Manotti" <ale870 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > can someone help me to understand how to use a Windows DLL in RunRev?
>
> Allesandro, we just went over this topic a few weeks back. It's detailed in
> the tip at my site:
>
> http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/ext002.htm
>
> Basically an DLL is either built exclusively for Revolution using the
> headers/source provided in the Externals kit, or it is a third party DLL (a
> "normal" DLL"). Revolution externals are loaded with the "set the externals
> to <list of externals>" command (see "externals" in the Transcript
> Dictionary), and third party DLLs *can* be used, but you have to provide an
> intermediary to call them (see the tip).
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From rishi at puredata.com.au  Mon Nov 28 05:27:50 2005
From: rishi at puredata.com.au (Rishi Viner)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 21:27:50 +1100
Subject: DLL usage in RunRev
In-Reply-To: <f54296680511280023y2c32e57bw8fe9f612d8af28a5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f54296680511270312x2488775aweec57e3b455b3a58@mail.gmail.com>
	<BFAFE156.308C0%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<f54296680511280023y2c32e57bw8fe9f612d8af28a5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200511282127.50387.rishi@puredata.com.au>

Hi Ken,

Thanks for the great tip (below). Do you have any links / info / experience in 
doing this with Linux .so (shared object) files? I would be interested in 
doing this with database drivers to isolate myself from version changes. Any 
help / links appreciated...

> > Basically an DLL is either built exclusively for Revolution using the
> > headers/source provided in the Externals kit, or it is a third party DLL
> > (a "normal" DLL"). Revolution externals are loaded with the "set the
> > externals to <list of externals>" command (see "externals" in the
> > Transcript Dictionary), and third party DLLs *can* be used, but you have
> > to provide an intermediary to call them (see the tip).
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > Ken Ray
> > Sons of Thunder Software
> > Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> > Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



-- 
Rishi Viner
--------------
PUREDATA
Australia

www.puredata.com.au


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Mon Nov 28 07:51:58 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:51:58 +0000
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
Message-ID: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi All,

I still can't get this to work.

The folder structure is:

MacOSX/myApp.app  <-- bundle
MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/MyApp (real applicaiton)
MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev
MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackB.rev
MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackC.rev

The path I get returned from "filename of this stack", in the 
openStack (or preOpenStack) script of Card 1 of  StackA.rev is:

path/MacOSX/myApp.app  <-- bundle

Bu according to the documentation, the path returned should be the 
path to the real application, e.g.

MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev

Or perhaps:

MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/MyApp (real applicaiton)

Have I got this wrong? I would be really grateful if someone could 
just let me know if:

a) The documentation is correct.
b) If no, how I acheive this!
c) if yes, why doesn't it work!

At my wits end for something to try to solve this!

I have everything else more or less done, this is the last remaining 
problem (AFAIK!).

I am running under the lastest version of MacOS X Tiger and the 
lastest version of RunRev.

Help!

Thanks a lot in Advance
All the Best
Dave
-------------------------------------------------------------

Some more information:

I moved the call to LoadGlobalStacks() to the openStack handler in 
card 1 of StackA.rev, the same thing happens, works fine under IDE 
but not when run as a standalone.

Upon further inspection, I found that after :

  function LoadGlobalStacks
  local myStackFIlePathName
   local myStackFIlePath
   local myGlobalStackFilePathName

put the filename of this stack into myStackFIlePathName
put myStackFIlePathName into myStackFIlePath
set itemDelimiter to :/"
delete item -1 of myStackFIlePath
set itemDelimiter to ","

Has been run, myStackFIlePathName is equal to myStackFIlePathName, in 
other words the last item has NOT been deleted! I changed it to:

put empty into item 1 of myStackFIlePath

But this doesn't work either!

I am testing this using answer dialogs since I can't run the debugger 
in the standalone and it works fine in the IDE.

This an additional problem to the filename of the stack being 
inconsistent with the current stack. Why should a simple delete 
statement work under the IDE but not in Standalone mode?

I am sure this has worked in the past, although I am not sure that I 
have tried it as a standalone since I upgraded to the lastest version 
of RunRev.

Any ideas anyone?

(there are some typeos in the code below, it's just a problem of 
re-typing, not in the real script I am running)

Thanks a lot
All the Best
Dave

Hi,

I have an application that is comprised on a number of stacks.

The top level stack is built into a Standalone and it calls other 
stacks (.rev files) via "start using" and "go stack" commands.

When in the IDE the folder stucture is like this:

BaseFolder/StartUp.rev <-- just contains a splash screen
BaseFolder/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev
BaseFolder/Runtime/Stacks/StackB.rev
BaseFolder/Runtime/Stacks/StackC.rev

StartUp.rev figures out the correct path (by using the filename of 
this stack property) and does a goto StackA.rev.
StackA in turn does a go to StackB.rev. This all works fine under the IDE.

When runnig as a standalone the folder structure is like this:

MacOSX/myApp.app  <-- bundle
MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/MyApp (real applicaiton)
MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev
MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackB.rev
MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackC.rev


But when I run this StackB.rev does not get found/run.

I traced this down to some code in card 1 (the only card) of StackA.rev:


function LoadGlobalStacks
   local myStackFIlePathName
   local myStackFIlePath
   local myGlobalStackFilePathName

put the filename of this stack into myStackFIlePathName
put myStackFIlePathName into myStackFIlePath
set itemDelimiter to :/"
delete item -1 of myStackFIlePath
set itemDelimiter to ","

put myStackFIlePath & "/StackB.rev" into myGlobalStackFilePathName
if there is not a stack myGlobalStackFilePathName return false

start using myGlobalStackFilePathName

return true
end LoadGlobalStacks


on preOpenStack
    if LoadGlobalStacks() = false then
   answer error "Cannot Find Global Stacks"
   end if

set the menubar of this stack to "MainMenu"

end preOpenStack


The problem seems to be that in the LoadGlobalStacks() function the 
string returned from:

put the filename of this stack into myStackFIlePathName

is "MacOSX/myApp.app" and not

"MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev" as expected.

I am guessing it's something to do with scope and being called from a 
preOpenStack handler??? StackA.rev was enetered via a go stack 
path/StackA from MacOSX/myApp.app and it looks like this context is 
being used instead of the context of StackA.rev.

If so, what is the recommended way of doing this?? If not what am I 
doing wrong?

Thanks in advance for any help.

All the Best
Dave
















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From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Mon Nov 28 08:33:47 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:33:47 +0000
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <7A922284-AE78-4EE0-BAD2-FBEDE748A5E8@inspiredlogic.com>
References: <a05210606bfaba4a06ce5@[192.168.0.101]>
	<p06230905bfaba8e8ef91@[192.168.1.103]>
	<a05210600bfabcbbbf557@[192.168.0.101]>	<43862761.2030201@comcast.net>
	<a05210600bfabe8d85d77@[192.168.0.101]>
	<1DED2654-9A82-4B29-A0F8-92611A7A20A8@inspiredlogic.com>
	<a05210600bfabfa19c9c9@[192.168.0.101]>
	<328EA437-1752-4823-B24B-01CDAF9BD15A@inspiredlogic.com>
	<a05210600bfac9cf84ebe@[192.168.0.101]>
	<7A922284-AE78-4EE0-BAD2-FBEDE748A5E8@inspiredlogic.com>
Message-ID: <a05210608bfb0b55bdb73@[192.168.0.101]>

>On Nov 25, 2005, at 2:59 AM, David Burgun wrote:
>
>>>It's entirely possible to have a group that is not on any card. To 
>>>do this, simply create a new stack, add a button, group the 
>>>button, and type this in the message box:
>>>
>>>remove group 1 from this card
>>>
>>>It's a limitation in the app browser, certainly, that the group in 
>>>question won't show up in the stack. It shouldn't show up under 
>>>the card, because it's not on the card.
>>
>>In this case, if it's not in the card, then surely it's not in the 
>>stack and should not be available for "Placing" or whatver.
>
>This simply isn't true. It is possible for a group to exist in a 
>stack _without_ being on any card in that stack. The above method 
>will create such a stack/group. As Jacque pointed out, if there are 
>more than one card in a stack and you delete the last card 
>containing a group, that will also leave you with a stack containing 
>backgrounds that are not on any card.

Where in the documentation does it tell you this?

>>>
>>>I'm not sure I'm following what you're describing after that part, 
>>>but it sounds like you placed the group, which would make it show 
>>>up in the app browser, allowing you to delete it.
>>
>>Yes.
>>
>>>Again, I'm not sure I'm following, but it sounds like getting rid 
>>>of this extraneous group fixed your menu bar problems. If so, 
>>>great.
>>
>>Yes.
>>
>>>So, there is definitely a limitation in the app browser, but not a 
>>>bug. It sounds like a useful feature request to backgrounds that 
>>>aren't in any card under the stack.
>>
>>No. it's a bug in RunRev. The only way a group could be created 
>>like that, is in a stack that exists in memory but not as a file. 
>>This is possible - once! But during the course of tracking this 
>>problem down I quit RunRev, restarted the machine and re-loaded 
>>RunRev. The Group was part of the stack where the error occured. 
>>When I created another stack the problem wasn't present, yet the 
>>Group in question was still in the Place Groups Sub-Menu. Besides 
>>all this I really don't think a Group can exist (or at least be 
>>accessible by RunRev), unless it is in a stack, and all stacks have 
>>at least one card, and they should appear in the App Browser anyway.
>
>You are correct that a group can't exist outside a stack. You are 
>correct that a stack must have at least one card. You are incorrect 
>that therefore the group must be in the card. You are incorrect that 
>this is a bug. It is a limitation.  The app browser doesn't display 
>any contents for the stack itself -- this is a limitation. If the 
>group _is_ on the card and _doesn't_ show up on that card in the app 
>browser, _that_ would be a bug. But that's not what you described.
>

Of course it's a bug in RunRev! As well as a limitation of the of App 
Browser, the two together makes things even worse though, which is 
possibly what you meant, e.g. RunRev created a Group out of thin air 
and stored it in the Stack then used it for the menu for that stack, 
then since the App Browser can't display items that belong to just a 
stack, it was difficult to know it existed and therefore get rid of 
it!

If that isn't a bug *and* a limitation then I'd like to know what you 
would consider a bug!!!

>
>>
>>>How the group got there in the first place remains a question for 
>>>investigation. You can certainly submit it as a bug. If it's not 
>>>reproducible it'll be difficult to confirm, and harder to fix 
>>>(assuming it is in fact a bug).
>>
>>Yes, It's a Bug - Shock Horror! There are loads of em in RunRev - 
>>Get used to it and stop being in denial!
>
>No denial here. I can view the report in bugzilla and see that there 
>are currently 586 active bugs, which is far fewer than there were a 
>few years ago. I submitted some of them, too. Most of mine have been 
>closed (I haven't submitted any lately). As others have pointed out, 
>sarcasm and hostility isn't likely to help things much.

I have in no way meant ot be hostile! I was trying to lighten up the 
whole proceedings, and to me 586 bugs is a LOAD!

I should hope that there are far fewer bugs than years ago!

All the Best
Dave


From mb at bkohg.com  Mon Nov 28 08:39:39 2005
From: mb at bkohg.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Marco_B=F6nig?=)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:39:39 +0100
Subject: Where can I find the error message from an external
Message-ID: <bf4ef422610bbae4d68df6a0cd405f7d@bkohg.com>

I am writing an external and it works fine. But I can not get the error 
message.

The C-source inside the external looks like this:

*pass = False;
*error = True;
*retstring = istrdup ("This is my error message");
return;

In Revolution I programed this:

on mouseUp
   lock error dialogs
   ErrorReturnValueTestCommand 1
end mouseUp

on errorDialog myError
   put myError into field "errorResultTextField"
end errorDialog

But the contents of myError is this, instead of the error text I 
generated inside the external:

573,3,1,ErrorReturnValueTestCommand
241,3,1,mouseUp
353,0,0,button id 1023 of card id 1002 of stack 
"/Users/marco/Desktop/Revolution External/Revolution 
2.6.1/SUSBTest.rev"

How can I get a message from an external when *error=True ?

I am not very familiar with Revolution. I am only writing an external 
for OSX. But after examining the complete mailing archive and the 
revolution Documentaion, I can't find out what's going wrong. It seems 
that I am the single external programmer with this problem.

best regards
Marco



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Mon Nov 28 08:39:54 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:39:54 +0000
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about whingeing
In-Reply-To: <DCBA3982-7E7E-408E-8FDA-ED974CBE1355@hindu.org>
References: <20051126180005.A21F08254A4@mail.runrev.com>
	<53c68b243f6cd8e75c901b75fc15d974@siphonophore.com>
	<4388D42B.8020503@fourthworld.com>
	<DCBA3982-7E7E-408E-8FDA-ED974CBE1355@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <a05210609bfb0b84b8c22@[192.168.0.101]>

>Second that... I've been using Metacard and RunRev now for 
>what...ten years? can't remember when I switched from Supercard... 
>in that whole time  think I had 4 corrupt stacks. All the work of 
>which (script wise) was easily recovered by simply opening the 
>broken stack in BBEdit and copying out my scripts.

Well I wish I knew what you were doing differently from me! I have 
been using Rev for about 18 months have had at least 8 corruptions! 
However, I started under MacOS 9 and to be honest I haven't seen many 
since I switched to Mac OS X, In fact just 2 I think.

>
>I think this qualifies as about as  "Rock Solid!" as you can get... 
>and I use Rev intensively, every day... not for commercial apps, but 
>Rev apps drive key in-house applications for Hinduism Today 
>International Magazine and Himalayan Academy Publications.

I agree, once you have got an App to work, then it is rock solid and 
very impressive, it's just these silly problems what cause the 
"gotachas".

As I said I am genreally fairly happy with RunRev but:

When it's good it's very good,
But When it's bad it's - WICKED!!!

lol

All the best
Dave


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Mon Nov 28 08:42:23 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:42:23 +0000
Subject: Where can I find the error message from an external
In-Reply-To: <bf4ef422610bbae4d68df6a0cd405f7d@bkohg.com>
References: <bf4ef422610bbae4d68df6a0cd405f7d@bkohg.com>
Message-ID: <a0521060abfb0b973d1a2@[192.168.0.101]>

I think that:

ExternalCommand x,y,z
put result into myResult

Is what you want.

Hope this helps
All the Best
Dave


>I am writing an external and it works fine. But I can not get the 
>error message.
>
>The C-source inside the external looks like this:
>
>*pass = False;
>*error = True;
>*retstring = istrdup ("This is my error message");
>return;
>
>In Revolution I programed this:
>
>on mouseUp
>   lock error dialogs
>   ErrorReturnValueTestCommand 1
>end mouseUp
>
>on errorDialog myError
>   put myError into field "errorResultTextField"
>end errorDialog
>
>But the contents of myError is this, instead of the error text I 
>generated inside the external:
>
>573,3,1,ErrorReturnValueTestCommand
>241,3,1,mouseUp
>353,0,0,button id 1023 of card id 1002 of stack 
>"/Users/marco/Desktop/Revolution External/Revolution 
>2.6.1/SUSBTest.rev"
>
>How can I get a message from an external when *error=True ?
>
>I am not very familiar with Revolution. I am only writing an 
>external for OSX. But after examining the complete mailing archive 
>and the revolution Documentaion, I can't find out what's going 
>wrong. It seems that I am the single external programmer with this 
>problem.
>
>best regards
>Marco
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Nov 28 08:46:49 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 07:46:49 -0600
Subject: DLL usage in RunRev
In-Reply-To: <f54296680511280023y2c32e57bw8fe9f612d8af28a5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BFB06669.30900%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/28/05 2:23 AM, "Alessandro Manotti" <ale870 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Author says it functions correctly.
> But the RunRev documentation about "externals" suggests to close
> (destroy) and open stack.
> 
> What's the right procedure (how to use externals and close/open stack
> without losing externals configuration)?

Here's the deal - Rev only loads Rev-specific externals into memory when a
stack that has the "externals" property is loaded. This happens before any
messages are sent (with the exception of the "startup" message, which only
goes to standalones). So if you already have your stack open, and you
"attach" externals to it through the "set the externals to ___" command,
those externals won't be available to that stack until the stack is saved,
closed, and reopened, or is put into use as a library through "start using".

Trevor Devore had a great idea that I (and others) have used - that is to
attach the externals to a *substack* of the mainstack (I call mine
"Externals" - I know, not very original :-), and then "start using" the
substack as a library. This kicks the externals into gear immediately and
makes them available. If I need to add other externals, all I need to do is
"stop using" the Externals stack, and then "start using" it again to get it
loaded.

> 
> More:
> let's suppose I need to use a generic DLL (not RunRev specific). And
> let's suppose this dll is already registered.
> Can you suggest the the smartest method to register and use it?

Well, if it's already registered, then the only things you need to know is
what function you want to call in the DLL and what the DLL's class name is.
Personally, I always attempt to register the DLL anyway with my
stsRegisterDLL handler, because it calls the internal function
_stsIsRegistered which will return true or false if the DLL is registered
and won't register it again if it's already registered.
 
> I tried to use some windows dll (just to try) using the previous code,
> but nothing happened (only errors...). My second problem is I have not
> a dll to test (my application must be able to use any dll, based on a
> script supplied from another program...).
> 
> So... can you suggest me a proven method to use a generic windows dll?

Once again, I direct you to the tip at my site:

http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/ext002.htm

This very clearly explains how to use a generic windows DLL. If it doesn't
work for you, let me know what errors you receive and I'll help you
troubleshoot it.
 
> Last item (I'm sorry): and about ".so" Linux files? Or Linux dynamic library?

Sorry, no idea about that - I haven't done anything with Linux libraries...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From r.beynon at liverpool.ac.uk  Mon Nov 28 08:57:42 2005
From: r.beynon at liverpool.ac.uk (Rob Beynon)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:57:42 +0000
Subject: Graphics tools internal to revolution
Message-ID: <63547530.20051128135742@liv.ac.uk>

Greetings All,

I'm  looking  for  either  an SVG to bitmap tool, so that I can import
snapshots  of  SVG  files  into  REV,  =or= a set of graphics primitives
(line,  box,  rotated  text  etc)  to  draw  simple  diagrams  in  x,y
co-ordinate  space  - see for example the peptideMapper output on this
page..

http://www.liv.ac.uk/pfg/Tools.html

Although  this  tool outputs SVG which can be edited in Illustrator or
Inkscape, I'd like to find an easy way to give a preview on the screen
first.

BTW,  I wrote the tool (again, see screenshot) in Rev, and am happy to
give  this  away  to my colleagues. Given as is, without support other
than   'always   interested  to  hear  suggestions/bugs'.  At  ?0,  my
obligations  are  very  limited.  But,  I don't have to earn my living
writing software.

More  relevant is my acknowledgment of the considerable support I've had
from  Eric,  Alex,  Sarah  and  many  others  who  amaze me with their
knowledge,  but  mostly,  their  depth  of  understanding that delivers
'sneaky solutions' which make me grin.

Best wishes

Rob

Message created: 28 November 2005 at 13:50:15
==============================================================
Prof. Rob Beynon                    |+44 151 794 4312 (voice)
Dept. Veterinary Preclinical        |+44 151 794 4243 (fax)
Sciences, University of Liverpool,
Crown Street, Liverpool L69 7ZJ     |mailto:r.beynon at liv.ac.uk
--------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.liv.ac.uk/pfg            |http://www.csiv.org
==============================================================



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Nov 28 08:55:13 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 07:55:13 -0600
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <a05210608bfb0b55bdb73@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <BFB06861.30908%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/28/05 7:33 AM, "David Burgun" <dburgun at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:


> If that isn't a bug *and* a limitation then I'd like to know what you
> would consider a bug!!!

Well, a "bug" is a behavior that is contrary to what the code is supposed to
do in that situation.

So the fact that Rev keeps "internal" groups that have no representation is
not a bug if that was the way it was designed, regardless of whether you
like it or not, or whether the community likes it or not.

The App Browser, since it is written in Rev, displays things for a stack
that are on cards, but doesn't (currently) show any unplaced groups that the
stack possesses. This is why Geoff called it a "limitation" - the App
Browser should probably show this, but just because it doesn't show it
doesn't mean it's a bug either. Remember the definition of a "bug" above -
if the App Browser was *supposed* to show unplaced groups and *didn't*, then
that would be a bug.

However, regardless of whether this is a bug or limitation, I feel something
should be done to address it so that this situation doesn't happen again.

Just my 2 cents,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Nov 28 09:02:01 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 08:02:01 -0600
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <BFB069F9.3090C%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/28/05 6:51 AM, "David Burgun" <dburgun at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

> The path I get returned from "filename of this stack", in the
> openStack (or preOpenStack) script of Card 1 of  StackA.rev is:
> 
> path/MacOSX/myApp.app  <-- bundle
> 
> Bu according to the documentation, the path returned should be the
> path to the real application, e.g.
> 
> MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev
> 
> Or perhaps:
> 
> MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/MyApp (real applicaiton)
> 
> Have I got this wrong? I would be really grateful if someone could
> just let me know if:
> 
> a) The documentation is correct.
> b) If no, how I acheive this!
> c) if yes, why doesn't it work!

Well, I get (for my app "testapp.app"):

  /users/kenray/Desktop/testapp.app/Contents/MacOS/testapp

This is latest Rev, under Tiger.

My guess would be that you could test to see if the filename contains ".app"
and then adjust your paths accordingly.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Nov 28 08:47:43 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 07:47:43 -0600
Subject: DLL usage in RunRev
In-Reply-To: <200511282127.50387.rishi@puredata.com.au>
Message-ID: <BFB0669F.30901%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/28/05 4:27 AM, "Rishi Viner" <rishi at puredata.com.au> wrote:

> Hi Ken,
> 
> Thanks for the great tip (below). Do you have any links / info / experience in
> doing this with Linux .so (shared object) files? I would be interested in
> doing this with database drivers to isolate myself from version changes. Any
> help / links appreciated...

Sorry, Rishi... no experience here on Linux .so files; I've only used Linux
to test and run stacks/apps that didn't need them so I'm not much help here.


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From mb at bkohg.com  Mon Nov 28 09:08:08 2005
From: mb at bkohg.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Marco_B=F6nig?=)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:08:08 +0100
Subject: Where can I find the error message from an external
In-Reply-To: <a0521060abfb0b973d1a2@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <bf4ef422610bbae4d68df6a0cd405f7d@bkohg.com>
	<a0521060abfb0b973d1a2@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <0e654dde1c1baf583a2bb66caf92483a@bkohg.com>


Am 28.11.2005 um 14:42 schrieb David Burgun:

> ExternalCommand x,y,z
> put result into myResult

the above results in compiling error:
Function missing '('

The following can compile:
put the result in myResult

But after execution, the error message log window from Revolution opens 
and shows: Execution error Type: Handler: can't find handler

If I set inside my external *error=False I can get a result. But I need 
the result (the error message) if *error=True.

Marco



From tkuypers at pandora.be  Mon Nov 28 09:23:14 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:23:14 +0100
Subject: Daily Comics in RunRev... A Garfield a day keeps the stress away!
Message-ID: <EF512503-C1B4-46D1-B9C3-449917BDD4E6@pandora.be>

Hi,

Live is not all about business, sometimes you should do something  
crazy with Revolution as well :-)

That's why I've just uploaded a small stack to RevOnline under  
"General" or at the user "DMP".

It's called "DailyComics" and shows you the daily comic of Garfield,  
Baldo, Broom-Hilda, etc.
I've made it possible to keep your favorites, but you can browse both  
lists.

The only thing missing for me is a way to find out how to get the  
comics of www.comics.com, so I can include the Daily Gilbert as well  
to my favorites.
If anyone can tell me what the logic of the filenames on that website  
could be, I'll update it this stack to include these as well

Enjoy!


Ton Kuypers
Digital Media Partners bvba
Tel. +32 (0)477 / 739 530
Fax +32 (0)14 / 71 03 04
http://www.dmp-int.com





From revolution at derbrill.de  Mon Nov 28 09:24:23 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:24:23 +0100
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <20051128130312.D8F84825152@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <AC4C06CA-601A-11DA-9570-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Hi David,

 >Bu according to the documentation, the path returned should be the
 >path to the real application, e.g.

 >MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev
 >Have I got this wrong?

I think so. My understanding is that the app. is the bundle folder, as 
this is what the user sees as the app.

Have you tried effective filename to locate the stack?

Cheers,

Malte
-- 
ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes
http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine
http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum 



From revolution at derbrill.de  Mon Nov 28 09:43:06 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:43:06 +0100
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <20051128130312.D8F84825152@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <49CD0B57-601D-11DA-9570-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

just checked again...


I get the filename of the stack in the bundle for both filename and 
effective filename. So I was wrong with my assumption. :-D

/Users/myUser/Desktop/test/MacOSX/test.app/Contents/MacOS/test

this is on Os X.2.8

All the best,

Malte

From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Mon Nov 28 09:45:23 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:45:23 +0000
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <AC4C06CA-601A-11DA-9570-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
References: <AC4C06CA-601A-11DA-9570-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <a0521060bbfb0c630cff6@[192.168.0.101]>

>Hi David,
>
>>Bu according to the documentation, the path returned should be the
>>path to the real application, e.g.
>
>>MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev
>>Have I got this wrong?
>
>I think so. My understanding is that the app. is the bundle folder, 
>as this is what the user sees as the app.

The thing is that, I could test for that, but what is stranger is that:

>
>Upon further inspection, I found that after :
>
>  function LoadGlobalStacks
>  local myStackFIlePathName
>   local myStackFIlePath
>   local myGlobalStackFilePathName
>
>put the filename of this stack into myStackFIlePathName
>put myStackFIlePathName into myStackFIlePath
>set itemDelimiter to :/"
>delete item -1 of myStackFIlePath
>set itemDelimiter to ","
>
>Has been run, myStackFIlePathName is equal to myStackFIlePathName, 
>in other words the last item has NOT been deleted! I changed it to:
>
>put empty into item -1 of myStackFIlePath
>
>But this doesn't work either!
>
>I am testing this using answer dialogs since I can't run the 
>debugger in the standalone and it works fine in the IDE.
>
>This an additional problem to the filename of the stack being 
>inconsistent with the current stack. Why should a simple delete 
>statement work under the IDE but not in Standalone mode?

So, it looks like simple delete and put statements are not working in 
a standalone!
>
>Have you tried effective filename to locate the stack?

Yes, tried effective filename too

 From the RunRev Online Documentation for file name of stack property:

  Cross-platform note:  On OS X systems, standalone applications are 
stored as application bundles. A bundle behaves like a file but is 
actually a folder, and the main stack of a standalone application is 
inside this folder. The filename of stack property reports the 
location of the application inside the bundle, not the bundle's 
location. For example, if the bundle's file path is 
"/Volumes/Disk/MyApp.app/", the filename of the application's main 
stack might be "/Volumes/Disk/MyApp.app/Contents/MacOS/MyApp".

So, either there is a bug in RunRev or a Bug in the doumentation!

Anyway with *any* ideas of how to track this down however crazy it 
may seem, please do let me know. I have managed to get an extension 
on my deadline til Wednesday, but this just seems completely 
unsoveable at the moment. If you can't tell the folder that the 
current .rev file is running in when in a standalone, then I really 
don't know what to do.

All the Best
Dave


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Mon Nov 28 09:48:40 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:48:40 +0000
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <BFB06861.30908%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BFB06861.30908%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <a0521060cbfb0c8e17198@[192.168.0.101]>

>On 11/28/05 7:33 AM, "David Burgun" <dburgun at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>
>
>>  If that isn't a bug *and* a limitation then I'd like to know what you
>>  would consider a bug!!!
>
>Well, a "bug" is a behavior that is contrary to what the code is supposed to
>do in that situation.
>
>So the fact that Rev keeps "internal" groups that have no representation is
>not a bug if that was the way it was designed, regardless of whether you
>like it or not, or whether the community likes it or not.
>
>The App Browser, since it is written in Rev, displays things for a stack
>that are on cards, but doesn't (currently) show any unplaced groups that the
>stack possesses. This is why Geoff called it a "limitation" - the App
>Browser should probably show this, but just because it doesn't show it
>doesn't mean it's a bug either. Remember the definition of a "bug" above -
>if the App Browser was *supposed* to show unplaced groups and *didn't*, then
>that would be a bug.
>
>However, regardless of whether this is a bug or limitation, I feel something
>should be done to address it so that this situation doesn't happen again.
>
>Just my 2 cents,

Ok, I can understand that. I guess what I meant was, the bug was that 
the garbage group got created in the first place, but this situation 
is compounded by not being able to see it easily!

All the Best
Dave


From mb at bkohg.com  Sat Nov 26 08:32:22 2005
From: mb at bkohg.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Marco_B=F6nig?=)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:32:22 +0100
Subject: Where can I find the error message from an external
Message-ID: <bbf40d1f9e9a1323e151708a9767143e@bkohg.com>

I am writing an external and it works fine. But I can not get the error 
message.

The C-source inside the external looks like this:

*pass = False;
*error = True;
*retstring = istrdup ("This is my error message");
return;

In Revolution I programed this:

on mouseUp
   lock error dialogs
   ErrorReturnValueTestCommand 1
end mouseUp

on errorDialog myError
   put myError into field "errorResultTextField"
end errorDialog

But the contents of myError is this, instead of the error text I 
generated inside the external:

573,3,1,ErrorReturnValueTestCommand
241,3,1,mouseUp
353,0,0,button id 1023 of card id 1002 of stack 
"/Users/marco/Desktop/Revolution External/Revolution 
2.6.1/SUSBTest.rev"

How can I get a message from an external when *error=True ?

I am not very familiar with Revolution. I am only writing an external 
for OSX. But after examining the complete mailing archive and the 
revolution Documentaion, I can't find out what's going wrong. It seems 
that I am the only external programmer with this problem.

best regards
Marco



From stevenf at gmail.com  Sat Nov 26 08:39:00 2005
From: stevenf at gmail.com (Steven Fernandez)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 09:39:00 -0400
Subject: Web Plugin for metacard player ( like flash plugin for browsers)
In-Reply-To: <4387B016.3050107@fourthworld.com>
References: <20051125233058.96724.qmail@web32804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4387B016.3050107@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <768fa4fc0511260539r644136cck4daf4a0efdf9158d@mail.gmail.com>

Many users feel like they know what something is when it is in the
framework of a web page. Its a silly distinction but when you are
trying to roll something out to a group of users being able to say
this is a web page vs. this is a program can really help in making it
easier to get something accepted.

Steve


From sokol at rmi.net  Sat Nov 26 15:04:43 2005
From: sokol at rmi.net (Debbie Segal)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:04:43 -0700
Subject: Need help opening a Macintosh Hypercard addess stack on a Windows
 PC with revolution
Message-ID: <4388BFDB.1030501@rmi.net>

I downloaded Revolution because i was told it would be able to open my 
Macintosh formatted hypercard address stack on  my Windows PC. I tried 
to open the stack using the File open stack command, but it did not see 
the stack in that window, so i changed the view to all files. Then it 
saw the stack, but when it tried to open it, i got a bunch of errors. I 
think I need to change the extension on the Hypercard stack file to a 
Revolution extension, but I don't know what that is. If this is not the 
answer, can anyone tell me how to get Revolution to read my Hypercard 
stack. It is saved on my PC's hard drive. Thanks,

Debbie


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon Nov 28 10:32:15 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 07:32:15 -0800
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about whingeing
In-Reply-To: <a05210609bfb0b84b8c22@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <20051126180005.A21F08254A4@mail.runrev.com>	<53c68b243f6cd8e75c901b75fc15d974@siphonophore.com>	<4388D42B.8020503@fourthworld.com>	<DCBA3982-7E7E-408E-8FDA-ED974CBE1355@hindu.org>
	<a05210609bfb0b84b8c22@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <438B22FF.1020900@fourthworld.com>

David Burgun wrote:
>> Second that... I've been using Metacard and RunRev now for what...ten 
>> years? can't remember when I switched from Supercard... in that whole 
>> time  think I had 4 corrupt stacks. All the work of which (script 
>> wise) was easily recovered by simply opening the broken stack in 
>> BBEdit and copying out my scripts.
> 
> Well I wish I knew what you were doing differently from me! I have been 
> using Rev for about 18 months have had at least 8 corruptions! However, 
> I started under MacOS 9 and to be honest I haven't seen many since I 
> switched to Mac OS X, In fact just 2 I think.

That's quite some run of unusually bad luck:  that number of corruptions 
exceeds the total number of verified corruptions throughout all other 
users over the last eight years.

Does the engine report them as corrupted or are they merely behaving in 
unexpected ways?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Mon Nov 28 10:36:40 2005
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:36:40 -0400
Subject: Need help opening a Macintosh Hypercard addess stack on a
 Windows PC with revolution
In-Reply-To: <4388BFDB.1030501@rmi.net>
Message-ID: <BFB09C48.128F7%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

Debbie:

I'm sure everyone on the list thought someone else would answer your email.
I am on a Mac platform and only use windows in an emulator but I think I can
answer your question. I believe you need to send that hypercard stack to
someone who has runrev on a mac platform and have them convert it to runrev
first before you can access it with your windows version of runrev. I don't
think the windows version can open a hypercard stack directly.

But maybe someone who uses windows can correct me?

Bill


On 11/26/05 4:04 PM, "Debbie Segal" <sokol at rmi.net> wrote:

> I downloaded Revolution because i was told it would be able to open my
> Macintosh formatted hypercard address stack on  my Windows PC. I tried
> to open the stack using the File open stack command, but it did not see
> the stack in that window, so i changed the view to all files. Then it
> saw the stack, but when it tried to open it, i got a bunch of errors. I
> think I need to change the extension on the Hypercard stack file to a
> Revolution extension, but I don't know what that is. If this is not the
> answer, can anyone tell me how to get Revolution to read my Hypercard
> stack. It is saved on my PC's hard drive. Thanks,
> 
> Debbie
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

            |    |    |
           )_)  )_)  )_)
          )___))___))___)\
         )____)____)_____)\\
       _____|____|____|____\\\__
-------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
 ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
       ^^^^      ^^^

24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (787) 809-8426

Blue Water Maritime
P.O. Box 91
Puerto Real, PR 00740





From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Mon Nov 28 10:50:58 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:50:58 +0000
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>


On 28 Nov 2005, at 12:51, David Burgun wrote:
>
> Bu according to the documentation, the path returned should be the  
> path to the real application, e.g.
>
> MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/Runtime/Stacks/StackA.rev
>
> Or perhaps:
>
> MacOSX/myApp.app/Contents/MacOS/MyApp (real applicaiton)
>
> Have I got this wrong? I would be really grateful if someone could  
> just let me know if:

I don't think you've got it wrong.

As a quick test, I made two stacks "path_tester" and "stackA"

In the card script of "path_tester" I put this script:

on preopenstack
   put empty into field "pathlist"
   put the filename of this stack into tPath
   put tPath into field "pathlist"
   set the itemDel to "/"
   put item 1 to -2 of tPath into tDir
   if there is a stack (tDir & "/" & "stackA.rev") then

     toplevel (tDir & "/" & "stackA.rev")
   end if
end preopenstack

I built this into a standalone.

In the card script of stackA, I put this script:

on preopenstack
   if there is a stack "path_tester" then
   put cr & the filename of this stack after field "pathlist" of  
stack "path_tester"
   end if
end preopenstack

I then placed stackA.rev in the Contents/MacOS folder inside the  
standalone.

On running the standalone, I get the following in field "pathlist".

/Users/dave/Documents/RunRevStuff/problem testers/pathtest/ 
path_tester/path_tester.app/Contents/MacOS/path_tester
/Users/dave/Documents/RunRevStuff/problem testers/pathtest/ 
path_tester/path_tester.app/Contents/MacOS/stackA.rev

This is with Rev 2.6.1 on OS X 10.4.3 (but I'm pretty sure it also  
worked this way in earlier versions).

Can you show us the script that is producing the strange result?

Cheers
Dave



From ale870 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 11:01:14 2005
From: ale870 at gmail.com (Alessandro Manotti)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 17:01:14 +0100
Subject: DLL usage in RunRev
In-Reply-To: <BFB0669F.30901%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <200511282127.50387.rishi@puredata.com.au>
	<BFB0669F.30901%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <f54296680511280801l5c7f361fk31228bed22c5df3c@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Ken for your support.

I discovered I forgot to insert a "the" in front of "externals"   :-(

It worked, but only RunRev dlls (sure compiled with RunRev toolkit).
I currently work in Delphi (but I know other "low-level" programming
languages) and I not yet understand why RunRev makes the difference
between RunRev-DLL and Non-RunRev DLLs.

Basically, the dll has a unique structure; the only difference is
parameters passing using stack (from left to right: pascal-style;
right-to-left: C-style).

However... I will use this proxy-like system, using VBS (great example!).

Thank you!




On 11/28/05, Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com> wrote:
> On 11/28/05 4:27 AM, "Rishi Viner" <rishi at puredata.com.au> wrote:
>
> > Hi Ken,
> >
> > Thanks for the great tip (below). Do you have any links / info / experience in
> > doing this with Linux .so (shared object) files? I would be interested in
> > doing this with database drivers to isolate myself from version changes. Any
> > help / links appreciated...
>
> Sorry, Rishi... no experience here on Linux .so files; I've only used Linux
> to test and run stacks/apps that didn't need them so I'm not much help here.
>
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Nov 28 11:04:43 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 10:04:43 -0600
Subject: Daily Comics in RunRev... A Garfield a day keeps the stress
 away!
In-Reply-To: <EF512503-C1B4-46D1-B9C3-449917BDD4E6@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <BFB086BB.30927%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/28/05 8:23 AM, "Ton Kuypers" <tkuypers at pandora.be> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Live is not all about business, sometimes you should do something
> crazy with Revolution as well :-)
> 
> That's why I've just uploaded a small stack to RevOnline under
> "General" or at the user "DMP".

That's great, Ton! Cool stuff...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From rcozens at pon.net  Mon Nov 28 11:08:07 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 08:08:07 -0800
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <a0521060bbfb0c630cff6@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <AC4C06CA-601A-11DA-9570-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
	<a0521060bbfb0c630cff6@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.10.1.20051128080504.01964398@pon.net>

Hi David,

If the line below:

>set itemDelimiter to :/"

is in your code as written, as opposed to

         set the itemDelimiter to "/"

that is where your problem lies.

Rob Cozens, Staff Conservator
Mendonoma Marine Life Conservancy

"We love our freedom to move about the oceans surface
where no streets, signs, or fences impede us,
yet our sense that no one owns this vast realm
has allowed us to tolerate no one caring for it."

         -- Pew Oceans Commission, "America's Living Oceans", 2003 



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Nov 28 11:12:02 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 10:12:02 -0600
Subject: DLL usage in RunRev
In-Reply-To: <f54296680511280801l5c7f361fk31228bed22c5df3c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BFB08872.3092B%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/28/05 10:01 AM, "Alessandro Manotti" <ale870 at gmail.com> wrote:

> It worked, but only RunRev dlls (sure compiled with RunRev toolkit).
> I currently work in Delphi (but I know other "low-level" programming
> languages) and I not yet understand why RunRev makes the difference
> between RunRev-DLL and Non-RunRev DLLs.
> 
> Basically, the dll has a unique structure; the only difference is
> parameters passing using stack (from left to right: pascal-style;
> right-to-left: C-style).

Well, Rev DLLs have a special header that must be compiled into the
external, which I assume is expected by the Revolution engine when it goes
to load it. Personally, I'd *love* to see Rev use normal DLLs so the
workaround wouldn't be necessary, but until that happens at least there's a
way to do it.

> However... I will use this proxy-like system, using VBS (great example!).

Thanks!


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From bill at bluewatermaritime.com  Mon Nov 28 11:34:13 2005
From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:34:13 -0400
Subject: Need help opening a Macintosh Hypercard addess stack on a
 Windows PC with revolution
In-Reply-To: <BFB09C48.128F7%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <BFB0A9C5.12908%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>

I just re-read your email and thought of something else. What did you mean
by "a bunch of errors"?  Maybe your runrev on windows is reading the
hypercard stack. When you convert a hypercard stack to runrev there will be
a number of things you have to change. For example the way hypercard does
menus is completely different then the way runrev does menus. Perhaps you
could tell me what the errors were?


On 11/28/05 11:36 AM, "Bill" <bill at bluewatermaritime.com> wrote:

> Debbie:
> 
> I'm sure everyone on the list thought someone else would answer your email.
> I am on a Mac platform and only use windows in an emulator but I think I can
> answer your question. I believe you need to send that hypercard stack to
> someone who has runrev on a mac platform and have them convert it to runrev
> first before you can access it with your windows version of runrev. I don't
> think the windows version can open a hypercard stack directly.
> 
> But maybe someone who uses windows can correct me?
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> On 11/26/05 4:04 PM, "Debbie Segal" <sokol at rmi.net> wrote:
> 
>> I downloaded Revolution because i was told it would be able to open my
>> Macintosh formatted hypercard address stack on  my Windows PC. I tried
>> to open the stack using the File open stack command, but it did not see
>> the stack in that window, so i changed the view to all files. Then it
>> saw the stack, but when it tried to open it, i got a bunch of errors. I
>> think I need to change the extension on the Hypercard stack file to a
>> Revolution extension, but I don't know what that is. If this is not the
>> answer, can anyone tell me how to get Revolution to read my Hypercard
>> stack. It is saved on my PC's hard drive. Thanks,
>> 
>> Debbie
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
>             |    |    |
>            )_)  )_)  )_)
>           )___))___))___)\
>          )____)____)_____)\\
>        _____|____|____|____\\\__
> -------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
>  ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
>        ^^^^      ^^^
> 
> 24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
> fax: (787) 809-8426
> 
> Blue Water Maritime
> P.O. Box 91
> Puerto Real, PR 00740
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

            |    |    |
           )_)  )_)  )_)
          )___))___))___)\
         )____)____)_____)\\
       _____|____|____|____\\\__
-------\                   /--------- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
 ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^      ^^^^     ^^^    ^^
       ^^^^      ^^^

24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (787) 809-8426

Blue Water Maritime
P.O. Box 91
Puerto Real, PR 00740





From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Mon Nov 28 11:48:46 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 10:48:46 -0600
Subject: Stack resizing on Mac 800x600
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051128104651.2351bd60@exchange.slg.com>

I hope someone knows the quick answer to this.  I have a stack without a 
title bar that is 800x600.  If I switch the Mac to 800x600 screen 
resolution, the stack is resized to less than 800x600.  It is more than for 
the size of the menu bar, and the stack is also resized horizontally.

Is there some way to prevent this resizing?

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From jerry at hytext.com  Mon Nov 28 12:30:29 2005
From: jerry at hytext.com (Jerry Muelver)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:30:29 -0600
Subject: Daily Comics in RunRev... A Garfield a day keeps the stress
	away!
References: <EF512503-C1B4-46D1-B9C3-449917BDD4E6@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <000b01c5f441$73919720$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3>

From: "Ton Kuypers" 
Subject: Daily Comics in RunRev... A Garfield a day keeps the stress away!



> That's why I've just uploaded a small stack to RevOnline under  
> "General" or at the user "DMP".
> 

Where IS "RevOnline"? Google is no help.

---- Jerry Muelver


From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Nov 28 12:34:34 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:34:34 -0200
Subject: Daily Comics in RunRev... A Garfield a day keeps the
	stress	away!
In-Reply-To: <000b01c5f441$73919720$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3>
References: <EF512503-C1B4-46D1-B9C3-449917BDD4E6@pandora.be>
	<000b01c5f441$73919720$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3>
Message-ID: <FB0DBB17-1906-4420-972C-4D2F40CC5959@mac.com>


On Nov 28, 2005, at 3:30 PM, Jerry Muelver wrote:

> From: "Ton Kuypers" Subject: Daily Comics in RunRev... A Garfield a  
> day keeps the stress away!
>
>
>
>> That's why I've just uploaded a small stack to RevOnline under   
>> "General" or at the user "DMP".
>
> Where IS "RevOnline"? Google is no help.

Jerry,

RevOnline is only accesible thru Rev IDE or Dreamcard Player. Launch  
Rev IDE, there's a menu "development", the first item of this menu is  
RevOnline... ;-)

Cheers
andre



>
> ---- Jerry Muelver
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 28 12:37:50 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 09:37:50 -0800
Subject: Daily Comics in RunRev... A Garfield a day keeps the stress
 away!
In-Reply-To: <000b01c5f441$73919720$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3>
Message-ID: <BFB0806E.31163%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

It is a stack in your Rev folder
Applications/Revolution 2.6.1/components/global environment/revonline.rev
In Rev preferences, you can change a check box to have Rev open this every
time you launch Rev.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 11/28/05 9:30 AM, "Jerry Muelver" <jerry at hytext.com> wrote:

> From: "Ton Kuypers"
> Subject: Daily Comics in RunRev... A Garfield a day keeps the stress away!
> 
> 
> 
>> That's why I've just uploaded a small stack to RevOnline under
>> "General" or at the user "DMP".
>> 
> 
> Where IS "RevOnline"? Google is no help.
> 
> ---- Jerry Muelver
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Nov 28 12:40:32 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:40:32 -0600
Subject: Daily Comics in RunRev... A Garfield a day keeps the stress
 away!
In-Reply-To: <000b01c5f441$73919720$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3>
Message-ID: <BFB09D30.30941%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/28/05 11:30 AM, "Jerry Muelver" <jerry at hytext.com> wrote:

> From: "Ton Kuypers"
> Subject: Daily Comics in RunRev... A Garfield a day keeps the stress away!
> 
> 
> 
>> That's why I've just uploaded a small stack to RevOnline under
>> "General" or at the user "DMP".
>> 
> 
> Where IS "RevOnline"? Google is no help.

It's inside Revolution - Click the RevOnline button in the toolbar...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From jason at polydiam.com  Mon Nov 28 12:43:03 2005
From: jason at polydiam.com (Jason - Polydiam Industries Limited)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 17:43:03 -0000
Subject: How to check what card a stack is currently viewing
Message-ID: <000801c5f443$2ed9a990$0200a8c0@Jason>

I want to perform an if statement

 

Something like:

 

If stack "blahblah" is on card 1 

Then do blah

 

How do I currently check what card a stack is displaying?

Regards

Jason



From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Nov 28 11:02:38 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 10:02:38 -0600
Subject: Need help opening a Macintosh Hypercard addess stack on a
 Windows PC with revolution
In-Reply-To: <BFB09C48.128F7%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <BFB0863E.30925%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/28/05 9:36 AM, "Bill" <bill at bluewatermaritime.com> wrote:

> Debbie:
>> I downloaded Revolution because i was told it would be able to open my
>> Macintosh formatted hypercard address stack on  my Windows PC. I tried
>> to open the stack using the File open stack command, but it did not see
>> the stack in that window, so i changed the view to all files. Then it
>> saw the stack, but when it tried to open it, i got a bunch of errors.
> 
> I'm sure everyone on the list thought someone else would answer your email.
> I am on a Mac platform and only use windows in an emulator but I think I can
> answer your question. I believe you need to send that hypercard stack to
> someone who has runrev on a mac platform and have them convert it to runrev
> first before you can access it with your windows version of runrev. I don't
> think the windows version can open a hypercard stack directly.
>
Actually, it can (as Debbie mentioned in her post), but I think the errors
you're getting are script errors related to unsupported HyperTalk that is
trying to be executed. Keep in mind that although the *file format* of a
HyperCard stack and be translated to a Revolution *file format*, the scripts
need to be hand-tweaked to work in Rev. For example, if you do "addColor" in
HyperCard, Rev has no idea what that means and will throw an error.

I would suggest locking messages (click the Messages icon with the lock in
the toolbar) and *then* open your HC stack. It should open without running
any of the code. You can then adjust the scripts of your converted stack so
that you stop getting script errors.

The Revolution extension is .rev, but that will only keep you from having to
choose "all files" to see the HC stack; it doesn't affect how Rev actually
converts and runs the HC stack.


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From yvescoppe at skynet.be  Mon Nov 28 13:01:47 2005
From: yvescoppe at skynet.be (Yves COPPE)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:01:47 +0100
Subject: How to check what card a stack is currently viewing
In-Reply-To: <000801c5f443$2ed9a990$0200a8c0@Jason>
References: <000801c5f443$2ed9a990$0200a8c0@Jason>
Message-ID: <46371A87-DBDC-4C14-A4B3-ABCE51F56478@skynet.be>


Le 28 nov. 05 ? 18:43, Jason - Polydiam Industries Limited a ?crit :

> I want to perform an if statement
>
>
>
> Something like:
>
>
>
> If stack "blahblah" is on card 1
>
> Then do blah
>
>
>
> How do I currently check what card a stack is displaying?
>

if this cd is <the short name of your card> then


Greetings.

Yves COPPE
yvescoppe at skynet.be



From jerry at hytext.com  Mon Nov 28 13:31:51 2005
From: jerry at hytext.com (Jerry Muelver)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:31:51 -0600
Subject: Daily Comics in RunRev... A Garfield a day keeps the stress
	away!
References: <BFB09D30.30941%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c5f44a$037ba800$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3>

Thanks, Andre, Jim, Ken..... Things have changed a bit since my 1998 
MetaCard days, and this old dog is working hard at learning all the new 
tricks.

---- Jerry Muelver 



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Nov 28 13:52:05 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:52:05 -0600
Subject: Need help opening a Macintosh Hypercard addess stack on a
 Windows PC with revolution
In-Reply-To: <BFB09C48.128F7%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
References: <BFB09C48.128F7%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <438B51D5.4010805@hyperactivesw.com>

Bill wrote:
> Debbie:
> 
> I'm sure everyone on the list thought someone else would answer your email.
> I am on a Mac platform and only use windows in an emulator but I think I can
> answer your question. I believe you need to send that hypercard stack to
> someone who has runrev on a mac platform and have them convert it to runrev
> first before you can access it with your windows version of runrev. I don't
> think the windows version can open a hypercard stack directly.
> 
> But maybe someone who uses windows can correct me?

Okay. :) Yes, if the stack is copied to the PC as a binary file (not a 
text file) then Rev can open it directly.

I've answered Debbie in tech support, but basically I think her problem 
is quite normal. HC stacks usually generate a number of errors unless 
their scripts have been tweaked to accomodate the differences in the two 
languages. I sent her a link to my conversion tutorial, which discusses 
almost all the usual conversion issues.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Nov 28 14:00:16 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:00:16 -0600
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <a0521060bbfb0c630cff6@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <AC4C06CA-601A-11DA-9570-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
	<a0521060bbfb0c630cff6@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <438B53C0.7060700@hyperactivesw.com>

David Burgun wrote:

>> set itemDelimiter to :/"
>> delete item -1 of myStackFIlePath

ItemDelimiters are limited to a single character. I haven't a clue why 
this should work in the IDE, but it shouldn't. Also, you have omitted 
"the" which in this case isn't strictly necessary but will improve 
engine performance, and  which may fail to work in future versions if it 
is omitted.

What you want is:

    set the itemDelimiter to "/"

or alternately, since it is a built-in constant, you can use:

    set the itemDelimiter to slash

> 
> So, it looks like simple delete and put statements are not working
 > in a standalone!


The "put" and "delete" commands work fine in standalones, unless you are 
putting stuff into the message box, which doesn't exist there.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Nov 28 14:05:32 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:05:32 -0600
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <a0521060cbfb0c8e17198@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <BFB06861.30908%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<a0521060cbfb0c8e17198@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <438B54FC.1080900@hyperactivesw.com>

David Burgun wrote:

> I guess what I meant was, the bug was that 
> the garbage group got created in the first place, but this situation is 
> compounded by not being able to see it easily!

The problem is, randomly-created groups with nonsense names appearing 
out of nowhere have never been reported (to my knowledge) ever in the 
past, all the way back to the original MC engine. If it happened to you, 
then it was a rare enough occurance that either:

1. It can't be reproduced by any common recipe,
2. It wasn't really a bug, but rather something happened you aren't 
aware of.

If you can figure out a recipe then please do submit to Bugzilla. That 
is the only way to track it and find what is happening. But since I 
don't believe this problem has ever been reported before in all the 
engines dating back to the original MetaCard, it will be very difficult 
to diagnose, and it is probably normal to assign the problem to "user 
error" since no one else has ever seen it.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Nov 28 14:13:49 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:13:49 -0800
Subject: DLL usage in RunRev
In-Reply-To: <f54296680511280801l5c7f361fk31228bed22c5df3c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200511282127.50387.rishi@puredata.com.au>
	<BFB0669F.30901%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<f54296680511280801l5c7f361fk31228bed22c5df3c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <661443695.20051128111349@ahsoftware.net>

Alessandro-

Monday, November 28, 2005, 8:01:14 AM, you wrote:

> It worked, but only RunRev dlls (sure compiled with RunRev toolkit).
> I currently work in Delphi (but I know other "low-level" programming
> languages) and I not yet understand why RunRev makes the difference
> between RunRev-DLL and Non-RunRev DLLs.

I doubt you'll be able to create compatible DLLs using Delphi. I know
you can't do it using Borland's C++ compilers. I wish it were
otherwise, but it's a limitation in Borland's linker. You can't get
the right combination of options to create a DLL that is recognized by
the engine..

> Basically, the dll has a unique structure; the only difference is
> parameters passing using stack (from left to right: pascal-style;
> right-to-left: C-style).

There are other differences as well. You need to be able to export
items in Mixed Case and without a leading underscore. You need to be
able to specify that the calling routine (not the called one) has the
responsibility for cleaning up the stack after the call.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From jeff at siphonophore.com  Mon Nov 28 14:09:28 2005
From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeffrey Reynolds)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:09:28 -0500
Subject: use-revolution Digest, Vol 26, Issue 115
In-Reply-To: <20051128180003.042C08250B8@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051128180003.042C08250B8@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <eb466da647fc8fd3e201f9b00aef8b4f@siphonophore.com>

When i did some full screen stacks w/o a menu bar and title bar at 
800x600 with an 800x600 screen, I had to set the width to 800 and the 
height to 600 (not just do the window size) to correct the window size 
once the title bar and menubar were removed. then set the window 
location to the screenloc to center it. I have just kept doing this in 
rev and never checked if things were changed so that the screenrect 
property is more menubar/titlebar independent. this might be forced 
because of the mac menubar and how it works.

cheers,

jeff


On Nov 28, 2005, at 1:00 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com 
wrote:

> I hope someone knows the quick answer to this.  I have a stack without 
> a
> title bar that is 800x600.  If I switch the Mac to 800x600 screen
> resolution, the stack is resized to less than 800x600.  It is more 
> than for
> the size of the menu bar, and the stack is also resized horizontally.
>
> Is there some way to prevent this resizing?



From rpresender at cox.net  Mon Nov 28 14:11:54 2005
From: rpresender at cox.net (Robert Presender)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:11:54 -0800
Subject: Small Print Problem
In-Reply-To: <20051128025619.512CE8256A3@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051128025619.512CE8256A3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <504e090d951d8b5c880536130d28a536@cox.net>

Thank you for your reply Jacque. Will try your suggestion.
Regards .. Bob

On Nov 27, 2005, at 6:56 PM, Jacque wrote:

> Robert Presender wrote:
>
>> The first page prints fine. Using .88 as printScale, the textsize of
>> ListField is
>>  between 9 and 10.  Subsequent pages,  containing  only the text of
>> ListField,
>> use revPrintText but the printed text size is the initial size of 10.
>>
>> Since I don't know how to emulate a printScale in revPrintText,  I
>> change the
>>  textSize of ListField to 9.  This works fine but the text appearance 
>> is
>> a little smaller
>>  than the first page. I would like subsequent pages  to be scaled like
>> the first page.
>
> I think the only way to make sure you really get a good size match is 
> to
> use the same scale for all pages in the printout. Leave the field font
> size alone, and instead, scroll the field via script and print each 
> page
> sequentially using the same settings. See the "pageHeights" property,
> which reports the scroll settings required to print each page of the
> field. That's what revPrintText uses, actually.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Nov 28 14:17:27 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:17:27 -0800
Subject: Where can I find the error message from an external
In-Reply-To: <bbf40d1f9e9a1323e151708a9767143e@bkohg.com>
References: <bbf40d1f9e9a1323e151708a9767143e@bkohg.com>
Message-ID: <1671661979.20051128111727@ahsoftware.net>

Marco-

Saturday, November 26, 2005, 5:32:22 AM, you wrote:

> The C-source inside the external looks like this:

> *pass = False;
> *error = True;

You don't want to do this.
Setting error to true will cause the script to stop executing and
display an error message. That's what you're seeing there.

Instead, set error=True, and return your error message in retstring
the way you're currently doing it. Then on return from your external
call check the value of "the result".

> on mouseUp
>    lock error dialogs
>    ErrorReturnValueTestCommand 1
     if the result is not empty then
       errorDialog the result
     end if
> end mouseUp

> on errorDialog myError
>    put myError into field "errorResultTextField"
> end errorDialog

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From jerry at hytext.com  Mon Nov 28 14:17:01 2005
From: jerry at hytext.com (Jerry Muelver)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:17:01 -0600
Subject: Daily Comics in RunRev... A Garfield a day keeps thestress	away!
References: <EF512503-C1B4-46D1-B9C3-449917BDD4E6@pandora.be><000b01c5f441$73919720$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3>
	<FB0DBB17-1906-4420-972C-4D2F40CC5959@mac.com>
Message-ID: <000301c5f450$538f7a00$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3>

From: "Andre Garzia"

> Jerry,
>
> RevOnline is only accesible thru Rev IDE or Dreamcard Player. Launch  Rev 
> IDE, there's a menu "development", the first item of this menu is 
> RevOnline... ;-)
>
> Cheers
> andre

Whoops.... Nope. I've got Rev 2.2.1, Linux "get acquainted" version, with no 
Rev Online in the Development menu. I guess I'll have to wait until my CFO 
(wife) comes through with the upgrade cost. I need a "persuader". I'll put 
together a Revolution Linux replacement for MS Office and OpenOffice, so she 
can see that I'm serious about this.

---- Jerry Muelver 



From rpresender at cox.net  Mon Nov 28 14:20:09 2005
From: rpresender at cox.net (Robert Presender)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:20:09 -0800
Subject: Small Print Problem
In-Reply-To: <20051128025619.512CE8256A3@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051128025619.512CE8256A3@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <291ac9f96578eb94729cd99989d54519@cox.net>

Jacque, thank you for your reply.  Will try your suggestion.
Regards ... Bob

On Nov 27, 2005, at 6:56 PM, Jacque wrote:

> Robert Presender wrote:
>
>> The first page prints fine. Using .88 as printScale, the textsize of
>> ListField is
>>  between 9 and 10.  Subsequent pages,  containing  only the text of
>> ListField,
>> use revPrintText but the printed text size is the initial size of 10.
>>
>> Since I don't know how to emulate a printScale in revPrintText,  I
>> change the
>>  textSize of ListField to 9.  This works fine but the text appearance 
>> is
>> a little smaller
>>  than the first page. I would like subsequent pages  to be scaled like
>> the first page.
>
> I think the only way to make sure you really get a good size match is 
> to
> use the same scale for all pages in the printout. Leave the field font
> size alone, and instead, scroll the field via script and print each 
> page
> sequentially using the same settings. See the "pageHeights" property,
> which reports the scroll settings required to print each page of the
> field. That's what revPrintText uses, actually.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Nov 28 14:24:35 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:24:35 -0600
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! -  was Menubar Help
In-Reply-To: <a05210608bfb0b55bdb73@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210606bfaba4a06ce5@[192.168.0.101]>	<p06230905bfaba8e8ef91@[192.168.1.103]>	<a05210600bfabcbbbf557@[192.168.0.101]>	<43862761.2030201@comcast.net>	<a05210600bfabe8d85d77@[192.168.0.101]>	<1DED2654-9A82-4B29-A0F8-92611A7A20A8@inspiredlogic.com>	<a05210600bfabfa19c9c9@[192.168.0.101]>	<328EA437-1752-4823-B24B-01CDAF9BD15A@inspiredlogic.com>	<a05210600bfac9cf84ebe@[192.168.0.101]>	<7A922284-AE78-4EE0-BAD2-FBEDE748A5E8@inspiredlogic.com>
	<a05210608bfb0b55bdb73@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <438B5973.9080202@hyperactivesw.com>

David Burgun wrote:
   Someone else wrote:
>> This simply isn't true. It is possible for a group to exist in a stack 
>> _without_ being on any card in that stack. The above method will 
>> create such a stack/group. As Jacque pointed out, if there are more 
>> than one card in a stack and you delete the last card containing a 
>> group, that will also leave you with a stack containing backgrounds 
>> that are not on any card.
> 
> 
> Where in the documentation does it tell you this?

In the documentation, click the "Topics" button. Click the main heading 
for "Groups and backgrounds". Read it. Here is an excerpt:

== begin excerpt: ==

Removing a group from every card in the stack does not remove it from 
the stack:  it is still part of the stack and can still be placed on 
cards. You can also use the start editing command to edit the group. 
(Since the group is not on any card, you must refer to it using the term 
"background" instead of the term "group".)

To delete a group completely from the stack, use the delete command, or 
select the group and choose Edit menu Clear. Deleting the group removes 
it from all the cards it appears on, and from the stack itself.

== end excerpt ==

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 28 14:27:06 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:27:06 -0800
Subject: How to check what card a stack is currently viewing
In-Reply-To: <000801c5f443$2ed9a990$0200a8c0@Jason>
Message-ID: <BFB09A0A.3117E%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

On 11/28/05 9:43 AM, "Jason - Polydiam Industries Limited"
<jason at polydiam.com> wrote:
> How do I currently check what card a stack is displaying?

if the number of the card of this stack is 1 then
--or
if the number of the card of stack "Not-In-Front" is 1 then

These are some of the various levels of access/get

--access current card, current stack
get the number of this card --assumes "this stack"
get the number of this card of this stack

get the id of this card --assumes "this stack"
get the id of this card of this stack
get the id of this card of stack "Showcase Functions"
-- does not have to be the active stack

get the Name of this stack
-- what you see in the stack inspector
--stack "Showcase Functions" (which could be a main or sub stack)

get the Filename of this stack
-- what you see on the hard drive
--which can *contain* a main stack and several sub stacks

--TO OPEN stacks that are on the hard drive but not open yet
go stack URL "/Users/myLogin/Documents/testStk.rev"
--which means 'go stack located at '
--I think 'located at' should be part of Transcipt

--access card or fields in stacks that are NOT OPEN
get the name of card 1 of stack "Main Stack" of stack URL
"/Users/myLogin/Documents/testStk.rev"

--unopened stack   get the values or properties
get line 2 of fld "shoppingList" of card "Tuesday" of stack "To Do list" of
stack URL "/Users/myLogin/Documents/MyDigitalWorld.rev"

--unopened stack  change the field contents WITHOUT opening
PUT "fred" into fld 1 of card 1 of stack "Friends" of stack URL
"/Users/myLogin/Documents/Contacts.rev"


Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 11/28/05 9:43 AM, "Jason - Polydiam Industries Limited"
<jason at polydiam.com> wrote:

> I want to perform an if statement
> 
>  
> 
> Something like:
> 
>  
> 
> If stack "blahblah" is on card 1
> 
> Then do blah
> 
>  
> 
> How do I currently check what card a stack is displaying?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Jason
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Nov 28 14:28:58 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:28:58 -0600
Subject: Problem with correct cursor showing up
In-Reply-To: <2b5.b52cf0.30bbc831@aol.com>
References: <2b5.b52cf0.30bbc831@aol.com>
Message-ID: <438B5A7A.3090200@hyperactivesw.com>

Stgoldberg at aol.com wrote:
> Hope someone can help with the following problem.   I want to program a 
> button so that the cursor changes to "hand" on MouseEnter and changes back to 
> "Arrow" on mouseLeave.   I inserted the following script (using Macintosh OS X 
> Panther):
> 
> on MouseEnter
>   set the cursor to hand
>   set the lockcursor to true
> end MouseEnter
> 
> on mouseLeave
>   set the cursor to arrow
> end mouseLeave
> 
> While this works in the unbuilt program, once it is built the cursor show up 
> as "Watch" rather than "Hand"   on both Macintosh and   Windows.   Anyone have 
> a suggestion?   Thanks.

RR has changed the cursor IDs a couple of times and I've lost track of 
what's what. In the most current version, the cursor ID for "hand" is 
28. What happens if instead of using the constant "hand" you use the 
actual ID of 28? That is, "set the cursor to 28".

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From kee at kagi.com  Mon Nov 28 14:40:44 2005
From: kee at kagi.com (kee nethery)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:40:44 -0800
Subject: Need help opening a Macintosh Hypercard addess stack on a
	Windows PC with revolution
In-Reply-To: <438B51D5.4010805@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <BFB09C48.128F7%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
	<438B51D5.4010805@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <F166A280-8CAF-4C1B-A0E3-FE0BAE13A2F8@kagi.com>

Wonder if it would make sense for the runrev team to translate that  
specific HC stack (assuming they are using the one that was provided  
by Apple) and to build a hypercard based exporter/importer (in case  
they added some fields or buttons to the Apple stack). She could run  
the exporter and have it dump the data to a text file, and then the  
runrev equivalent could import that text file and add additional  
buttons or fields as needed. Just a thought.
Kee Nethery

On Nov 28, 2005, at 10:52 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> I've answered Debbie in tech support, but basically I think her  
> problem is quite normal. HC stacks usually generate a number of  
> errors unless their scripts have been tweaked to accomodate the  
> differences in the two languages. I sent her a link to my  
> conversion tutorial, which discusses almost all the usual  
> conversion issues.



From mail at richard-hillen.de  Mon Nov 28 14:50:05 2005
From: mail at richard-hillen.de (R. Hillen)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:50:05 +0100
Subject: No backgroundcolor
Message-ID: <F320CC4D-3792-439F-A311-0CEFA22328E9@richard-hillen.de>

Hello list,

I wanted to make a green rect with a red edge, so I wrote

       create invisible graphic
       set the style of it to rectangle
       set the rect of it to 20,20,50,50
       set the foregroundcolor of it to 255,0,0 --RGB_Color
       set the backgroundcolor of it to 0,255,0 --RGB_Color
       set the linesize of it to 2
       show it

I got a white rect with a red edge. Why?

May  you help?

Richard.	


From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Nov 28 15:01:32 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:01:32 -0800
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <1h6qbcx.ymwj8h13fvv2fM%mcdomi@free.fr>
References: <1h6qbcx.ymwj8h13fvv2fM%mcdomi@free.fr>
Message-ID: <8ABFEC57-A494-4DF1-95D8-88E9B3C9F3D1@danshafer.com>

There was at one point inside Apple a very serious discussion about  
adding a TCP stack to HyperCard and stuffing it into the ROM. This  
was a year or more before the Internet exploded. The guy who promoted  
the idea got show down by Jean-Louis Gassee and left the company.  
Just imagine....


On Nov 28, 2005, at 12:13 AM, Dom wrote:

> wonder why Apple didn't make Hypertalk system-wide
> (apart reinventing the wheel...)



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Nov 28 15:08:10 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:08:10 -0800
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about whingeing
In-Reply-To: <a05210609bfb0b84b8c22@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <20051126180005.A21F08254A4@mail.runrev.com>
	<53c68b243f6cd8e75c901b75fc15d974@siphonophore.com>
	<4388D42B.8020503@fourthworld.com>
	<DCBA3982-7E7E-408E-8FDA-ED974CBE1355@hindu.org>
	<a05210609bfb0b84b8c22@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <1BE8FFFD-891C-453F-AE07-7495AF294CC4@danshafer.com>

That could be said about every development tool and language I've  
ever used!

On Nov 28, 2005, at 5:39 AM, David Burgun wrote:

> When it's good it's very good,
> But When it's bad it's - WICKED!!!



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Mon Nov 28 15:20:52 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:20:52 -0600
Subject: No backgroundcolor
In-Reply-To: <F320CC4D-3792-439F-A311-0CEFA22328E9@richard-hillen.de>
Message-ID: <BFB0C2C4.3096D%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/28/05 1:50 PM, "R. Hillen" <mail at richard-hillen.de> wrote:

> Hello list,
> 
> I wanted to make a green rect with a red edge, so I wrote
> 
>        create invisible graphic
>        set the style of it to rectangle
>        set the rect of it to 20,20,50,50
>        set the foregroundcolor of it to 255,0,0 --RGB_Color
>        set the backgroundcolor of it to 0,255,0 --RGB_Color
>        set the linesize of it to 2
>        show it
> 
> I got a white rect with a red edge. Why?

Because the graphic's "opaque" property was false. Set it to true and you'll
see the green fill.


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Nov 28 15:31:13 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:31:13 -0800
Subject: How to check what card a stack is currently viewing
In-Reply-To: <000801c5f443$2ed9a990$0200a8c0@Jason>
References: <000801c5f443$2ed9a990$0200a8c0@Jason>
Message-ID: <585EDC21-90B3-4B37-BD83-0E3D5E406E2C@danshafer.com>

Those who have already answered have told you how to check for the  
current card in the stack in which the handler is executing. But I  
had a feeling you were trying to check the current card showing in a  
stack *other* than the current stack.

If that's the case, the secret is to temporarily make the other stack  
the current stack. There are several ways to do this. The simplest  
one I could come up with off the top of my head looks something like  
this:

on mouseUp
   lock screen
   push this card
   go stack "otherStack"
   put the name of this card into foo
   unlock screen
   pop card
   answer foo
end mouseUp

The "unlock screen" isn't strictly speaking necessary but I always  
like to pair those commands in the same handler just to make my code  
more readable later.


On Nov 28, 2005, at 9:43 AM, Jason - Polydiam Industries Limited wrote:

> How do I currently check what card a stack is displaying?




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Nov 28 15:41:01 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 21:41:01 +0100
Subject: How to check what card a stack is currently viewing
In-Reply-To: <000801c5f443$2ed9a990$0200a8c0@Jason>
References: <000801c5f443$2ed9a990$0200a8c0@Jason>
Message-ID: <CB743BA1-CEED-4E91-BAC4-A979DA8B225F@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Jason,

You don't need to go to any card in another stack in order to know that:

if the short name of this cd of stack "blahblah" is <card name> then  
do blah

Hope this helps.

Le 28 nov. 05 ? 18:43, Jason - Polydiam Industries Limited a ?crit :

> I want to perform an if statement
> Something like:
>
> If stack "blahblah" is on card 1
> Then do blah
>
> How do I currently check what card a stack is displaying?

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
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Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

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From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Nov 28 15:43:14 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:43:14 -0600
Subject: Need help opening a Macintosh Hypercard addess stack on
 a	Windows PC with revolution
In-Reply-To: <F166A280-8CAF-4C1B-A0E3-FE0BAE13A2F8@kagi.com>
References: <BFB09C48.128F7%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>	<438B51D5.4010805@hyperactivesw.com>
	<F166A280-8CAF-4C1B-A0E3-FE0BAE13A2F8@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <438B6BE2.4040204@hyperactivesw.com>

kee nethery wrote:
> Wonder if it would make sense for the runrev team to translate that  
> specific HC stack (assuming they are using the one that was provided  by 
> Apple) and to build a hypercard based exporter/importer (in case  they 
> added some fields or buttons to the Apple stack). She could run  the 
> exporter and have it dump the data to a text file, and then the  runrev 
> equivalent could import that text file and add additional  buttons or 
> fields as needed. Just a thought.

Good thought, but probably not workable, unfortunately. The problem 
isn't really the objects or the data, both of which convert very well 
automatically. The native importer that already exists does a fantastic 
job, it is really quite impressive.

What generally needs tweaking is almost always script-related. The most 
common things that need human attention include:

1. Menus. HyperCard menus are scripted. Rev menus are objects. Menu 
handlers must be rewritten manually and a menubar has to be created and 
assigned. I suppose some kind of conversion could be done automatically 
but it would be very difficult, as scripters tend to write their HC menu 
scripts in all sorts of different ways (and HC allows several alternate 
kinds of syntax.)

2. Calls to XCMDs/XFCNs. These don't generally convert over, so 
externals are omitted from the import. In most cases HC externals can be 
scripted using native Rev commands and no externals are needed at all. 
Because there are thousands of HC externals in use, automatic scripts 
are impossible. Calls to externals always throw errors. The most common 
trouble-making external is AddColor. All addColor calls have to be 
replaced by Rev color scripting, and/or all stack objects have to be 
recolored using native Rev color properties.

3. Unquoted literals. HC allows them, Rev usually doesn't. The only 
solution is to go through the scripts, find the literals, and add quote 
marks around them. Again, not easily done via an auto-converter because 
it is impossible to tell which words are intended as literals and which 
are intended to be variable names. (Unquoted literals are very poor 
programming technique, but unfortunately they are common in HC stacks. 
HC was pretty lax about it.)

4. Rev keywords used as variable names. Again, probably impossible to 
automate. Rev has three or four times as many keywords as HC, and in 
addition, HC allows its own keywords to be used as variable names. It is 
common to see syntax like:

   put the name of this cd into name
   put the short date into date

This causes Rev to complain, but HC allows it. Only a human can figure 
out which words in a script should be variables and which are language 
keywords. Those that should be variables need to be changed in every 
instance throughout the stack.

There are a few other things the seize up too, but in general I think 
all the automatic stuff has already been addressed very well and what is 
left needs to be looked at by a human.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Nov 28 15:45:28 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:45:28 -0800
Subject: No backgroundcolor
In-Reply-To: <F320CC4D-3792-439F-A311-0CEFA22328E9@richard-hillen.de>
References: <F320CC4D-3792-439F-A311-0CEFA22328E9@richard-hillen.de>
Message-ID: <E40E2048-1739-43B6-9C70-DE865F9C82A9@danshafer.com>

You need to set the opaque of the graphic to true before the  
background color displays.

It appears that newly created graphics are by default transparent.

set the opaque of it to true

before you show it and it should work.

On Nov 28, 2005, at 11:50 AM, R. Hillen wrote:

> Hello list,
>
> I wanted to make a green rect with a red edge, so I wrote
>
>       create invisible graphic
>       set the style of it to rectangle
>       set the rect of it to 20,20,50,50
>       set the foregroundcolor of it to 255,0,0 --RGB_Color
>       set the backgroundcolor of it to 0,255,0 --RGB_Color
>       set the linesize of it to 2
>       show it
>
> I got a white rect with a red edge. Why?
>
> May  you help?
>
> Richard.	
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Nov 28 15:55:19 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:55:19 -0800
Subject: How to check what card a stack is currently viewing
In-Reply-To: <CB743BA1-CEED-4E91-BAC4-A979DA8B225F@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <000801c5f443$2ed9a990$0200a8c0@Jason>
	<CB743BA1-CEED-4E91-BAC4-A979DA8B225F@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <AC011F9A-E0DB-4E94-95BB-B3877E6C7CB5@danshafer.com>

Good one, Eric!

I didn't even try that because the docs seem clearly to limit "this"  
to the current card/stack.


On Nov 28, 2005, at 12:41 PM, Eric Chatonet wrote:

> if the short name of this cd of stack "blahblah" is <card name>  
> then do blah



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Nov 28 16:01:51 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:01:51 -0600
Subject: No backgroundcolor
In-Reply-To: <F320CC4D-3792-439F-A311-0CEFA22328E9@richard-hillen.de>
References: <F320CC4D-3792-439F-A311-0CEFA22328E9@richard-hillen.de>
Message-ID: <438B703F.4060209@hyperactivesw.com>

R. Hillen wrote:
> Hello list,
> 
> I wanted to make a green rect with a red edge, so I wrote
> 
>       create invisible graphic
>       set the style of it to rectangle
>       set the rect of it to 20,20,50,50
>       set the foregroundcolor of it to 255,0,0 --RGB_Color
>       set the backgroundcolor of it to 0,255,0 --RGB_Color
>       set the linesize of it to 2
>       show it
> 
> I got a white rect with a red edge. Why?

I'm not sure, because the "foregroundcolor" controls the text color, not 
the border. If this wasn't a typo, then set the "bordercolor" instead.

Also, do the opaque thing like others have suggested.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Mon Nov 28 00:54:10 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:54:10 -0800
Subject: Rev and User Accounts
In-Reply-To: <438A8565.7030304@fourthworld.com>
References: <p06200700bfafd79e0e93@[10.0.1.201]>
	<438A6AB2.70504@hyperactivesw.com> <438A8565.7030304@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <p06210216bfb04be5646f@[192.168.2.17]>

At 8:19 PM -0800 11/27/2005, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>J. Landman Gay wrote:
>>Both DC and Rev Player use the same creator code, so it may be that 
>>OS X thinks they are duplicate apps.
>
>Is there a benefit to having those apps use duplicate creator codes, 
>or should we Bugzilla that?

Been zilla'd: <http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=2814>.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Nov 28 16:07:51 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:07:51 +0100
Subject: How to check what card a stack is currently viewing
In-Reply-To: <AC011F9A-E0DB-4E94-95BB-B3877E6C7CB5@danshafer.com>
References: <000801c5f443$2ed9a990$0200a8c0@Jason>
	<CB743BA1-CEED-4E91-BAC4-A979DA8B225F@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<AC011F9A-E0DB-4E94-95BB-B3877E6C7CB5@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <49668496-C131-44C4-B3D9-F0ABC76F76A5@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Dan,

Le 28 nov. 05 ? 21:55, Dan Shafer a ?crit :

> Good one, Eric!
>
> I didn't even try that because the docs seem clearly to limit  
> "this" to the current card/stack.

Thanks.
Additional thought:
I agree completely with your "I always like to pair those  
commands" (about lock and unlock screen in the same handler):
Many times I noticed (on Mac OS but not on Windows) that forcing  
unlock screen seemed to refresh the screen faster and then provide a  
better "reactivity" from the user point of view. I always use it even  
if the docs say it's not necessary.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From chipp at chipp.com  Mon Nov 28 16:14:57 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:14:57 -0600
Subject: How to check what card a stack is currently viewing
In-Reply-To: <585EDC21-90B3-4B37-BD83-0E3D5E406E2C@danshafer.com>
References: <000801c5f443$2ed9a990$0200a8c0@Jason>
	<585EDC21-90B3-4B37-BD83-0E3D5E406E2C@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <438B7351.5080308@chipp.com>

Easier to read might be,


   put the name of the current card of stack "fred" into tName


Dan Shafer wrote:
> Those who have already answered have told you how to check for the  
> current card in the stack in which the handler is executing. But I  had 
> a feeling you were trying to check the current card showing in a  stack 
> *other* than the current stack.
> 
> If that's the case, the secret is to temporarily make the other stack  
> the current stack. There are several ways to do this. The simplest  one 
> I could come up with off the top of my head looks something like  this:
> 
> on mouseUp
>   lock screen
>   push this card
>   go stack "otherStack"
>   put the name of this card into foo
>   unlock screen
>   pop card
>   answer foo
> end mouseUp
> 
> The "unlock screen" isn't strictly speaking necessary but I always  like 
> to pair those commands in the same handler just to make my code  more 
> readable later.
> 
> 
> On Nov 28, 2005, at 9:43 AM, Jason - Polydiam Industries Limited wrote:
> 
>> How do I currently check what card a stack is displaying?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
> http://www.shafermedia.com
> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>  From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 

-- 
--------------
Chipp Walters
www.altuit.com



From ale870 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 16:15:45 2005
From: ale870 at gmail.com (Alessandro Manotti)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:15:45 +0100
Subject: DLL usage in RunRev
In-Reply-To: <661443695.20051128111349@ahsoftware.net>
References: <200511282127.50387.rishi@puredata.com.au>
	<BFB0669F.30901%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<f54296680511280801l5c7f361fk31228bed22c5df3c@mail.gmail.com>
	<661443695.20051128111349@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <f54296680511281315v16aa33cfh80bcd9d816c58d78@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry Mark, but in my company I already use Delphi to create DLLs
(using "cdecl" option for parameters passing)   ;-)

I don't know if I can use Delphi to create dll specific for RunRev,
but Delphi can create dll for windows (and, of course, I can read/use
every dll).
Some problems occurred in older Delphi versions (more about ocx).

But now the situation seems ok.




On 11/28/05, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
> Alessandro-
>
> Monday, November 28, 2005, 8:01:14 AM, you wrote:
>
> > It worked, but only RunRev dlls (sure compiled with RunRev toolkit).
> > I currently work in Delphi (but I know other "low-level" programming
> > languages) and I not yet understand why RunRev makes the difference
> > between RunRev-DLL and Non-RunRev DLLs.
>
> I doubt you'll be able to create compatible DLLs using Delphi. I know
> you can't do it using Borland's C++ compilers. I wish it were
> otherwise, but it's a limitation in Borland's linker. You can't get
> the right combination of options to create a DLL that is recognized by
> the engine..
>
> > Basically, the dll has a unique structure; the only difference is
> > parameters passing using stack (from left to right: pascal-style;
> > right-to-left: C-style).
>
> There are other differences as well. You need to be able to export
> items in Mixed Case and without a leading underscore. You need to be
> able to specify that the calling routine (not the called one) has the
> responsibility for cleaning up the stack after the call.
>
> --
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 16:21:27 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 07:21:27 +1000
Subject: Stack resizing on Mac 800x600
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20051128104651.2351bd60@exchange.slg.com>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20051128104651.2351bd60@exchange.slg.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511281321g662b5208te61d3d53d9473b61@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/29/05, Peter T. Evensen <pevensen at siboneylg.com> wrote:
> I hope someone knows the quick answer to this.  I have a stack without a
> title bar that is 800x600.  If I switch the Mac to 800x600 screen
> resolution, the stack is resized to less than 800x600.  It is more than for
> the size of the menu bar, and the stack is also resized horizontally.
>
> Is there some way to prevent this resizing?

Your stack is being resized to fit into the windowBoundingRect, so I
would use something like this:

set the windowBoundingRect to the screenRect
set the width of this stack to 800
set the height of this stack to 600
set the loc of this stack to the screenLoc

Cheers,
Sarah


From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Nov 28 16:25:21 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:25:21 -0800
Subject: No backgroundcolor
In-Reply-To: <438B703F.4060209@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <F320CC4D-3792-439F-A311-0CEFA22328E9@richard-hillen.de>
	<438B703F.4060209@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <9ED6B7BE-EC5C-4538-B5BE-E09D8EDC25BE@danshafer.com>

Jacque...

Um, actually, foregroundcolor controls both text and border color.  
bordercolor only works on buttons and scrollbars according to the docs.


On Nov 28, 2005, at 1:01 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> R. Hillen wrote:
>> Hello list,
>> I wanted to make a green rect with a red edge, so I wrote
>>       create invisible graphic
>>       set the style of it to rectangle
>>       set the rect of it to 20,20,50,50
>>       set the foregroundcolor of it to 255,0,0 --RGB_Color
>>       set the backgroundcolor of it to 0,255,0 --RGB_Color
>>       set the linesize of it to 2
>>       show it
>> I got a white rect with a red edge. Why?
>
> I'm not sure, because the "foregroundcolor" controls the text  
> color, not the border. If this wasn't a typo, then set the  
> "bordercolor" instead.
>
> Also, do the opaque thing like others have suggested.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Nov 28 16:07:51 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:07:51 +0100
Subject: How to check what card a stack is currently viewing
Message-ID: <B9C5D0A4-C4D7-4C6F-B20B-1AB393CB7D7F@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Dan,

Le 28 nov. 05 ? 21:55, Dan Shafer a ?crit :

> Good one, Eric!
>
> I didn't even try that because the docs seem clearly to limit  
> "this" to the current card/stack.

Thanks.
Additional thought:
I agree completely with your "I always like to pair those  
commands" (about lock and unlock screen in the same handler):
Many times I noticed (on Mac OS but not on Windows) that forcing  
unlock screen seemed to refresh the screen faster and then provide a  
better "reactivity" from the user point of view. I always use it even  
if the docs say it's not necessary.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From frny4x at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 28 16:29:38 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:29:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Following this List
In-Reply-To: <9ED6B7BE-EC5C-4538-B5BE-E09D8EDC25BE@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <20051128212938.42309.qmail@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I want to keep following this list.  But, my inbox is getting blasted pretty good.
  Are there any other options for following this list, other than e-mail?  Is this
  shadowed to a forum anywhere?     Thanks.
   
  _________________________________________________________________

Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:
  Jacque...

Um, actually, foregroundcolor controls both text and border color. 
bordercolor only works on buttons and scrollbars according to the docs.


On Nov 28, 2005, at 1:01 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> R. Hillen wrote:
>> Hello list,
>> I wanted to make a green rect with a red edge, so I wrote
>> create invisible graphic
>> set the style of it to rectangle
>> set the rect of it to 20,20,50,50
>> set the foregroundcolor of it to 255,0,0 --RGB_Color
>> set the backgroundcolor of it to 0,255,0 --RGB_Color
>> set the linesize of it to 2
>> show it
>> I got a white rect with a red edge. Why?
>
> I'm not sure, because the "foregroundcolor" controls the text 
> color, not the border. If this wasn't a typo, then set the 
> "bordercolor" instead.
>
> Also, do the opaque thing like others have suggested.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
  



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 16:36:13 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 07:36:13 +1000
Subject: Following this List
In-Reply-To: <20051128212938.42309.qmail@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <9ED6B7BE-EC5C-4538-B5BE-E09D8EDC25BE@danshafer.com>
	<20051128212938.42309.qmail@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511281336gde76353k41033728cb0e96be@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/29/05, Frank R <frny4x at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I want to keep following this list.  But, my inbox is getting blasted pretty good.
>   Are there any other options for following this list, other than e-mail?  Is this
>   shadowed to a forum anywhere?     Thanks.

You can always read it on the archives:
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/>

However my current preference is to read is using gmail. The threading
of the different topics works really well and I can get to it wherever
I am. If you or anyone else wants an invitation to gmail, just let me
know.

Cheers,
Sarah


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Mon Nov 28 16:39:49 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:39:49 +0100
Subject: Following this List
In-Reply-To: <20051128212938.42309.qmail@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051128212938.42309.qmail@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <EA1E4548-A36D-4CDC-8AAB-EBDF011E265A@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Frank,

Many ways:

Google:
http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:lists.runrev.com

Gmane:
http://search.gmane.org/search.php?group=gmane.comp.ide.revolution.user
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.ide.revolution.user/ organised by  
threads

Mail Archive:
http://www.mail-archive.com/use-revolution at lists.runrev.com/ 
maillist.html organised by date
http://www.mail-archive.com/use-revolution at lists.runrev.com/ 
index.html organised by threads

And "Resources Picker", a plugin you will fin on my website that  
allows you to choose any method and much more :-)

Le 28 nov. 05 ? 22:29, Frank R a ?crit :

> I want to keep following this list.  But, my inbox is getting  
> blasted pretty good.
>   Are there any other options for following this list, other than e- 
> mail?  Is this
>   shadowed to a forum anywhere?     Thanks.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From frny4x at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 28 16:42:22 2005
From: frny4x at yahoo.com (Frank R)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:42:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Stuffing ROM
In-Reply-To: <8ABFEC57-A494-4DF1-95D8-88E9B3C9F3D1@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <20051128214223.96973.qmail@web32806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

> Jean-Louis Gassee 
   
  You mention a name I haven't thought of in a while.
   
  The group/company I worked with in the early 90's did some interfacing with him
  and the Newton group when the first wave of PDA hoopla was happening.  
  Also interfaced with MS at the time, on their First Generation PDA OS.
   
  Unfortunately, Nobody made any money, and lots of plans never saw the light of day.

  There were many discussions those days about things that have finally happened:
  - Stuffing TCP stacks into ROM
  - Stuffing good voice reco into ROM
   
  Those were really interesting times for me.
   
  Frank
  ____________________________________________________________
  
Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:
  There was at one point inside Apple a very serious discussion about 
adding a TCP stack to HyperCard and stuffing it into the ROM. This 
was a year or more before the Internet exploded. The guy who promoted 
the idea got show down by Jean-Louis Gassee and left the company. 
Just imagine....


On Nov 28, 2005, at 12:13 AM, Dom wrote:

> wonder why Apple didn't make Hypertalk system-wide
> (apart reinventing the wheel...)



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
  



From Cubist at aol.com  Mon Nov 28 16:49:42 2005
From: Cubist at aol.com (Cubist at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:49:42 EST
Subject: Need help opening a Macintosh Hypercard addess stack on a
	Windows PC with revolution
Message-ID: <253.23c62ee.30bcd576@aol.com>

sez Debbie Segal <sokol at rmi.net>:
>I downloaded Revolution because i was told it would be able to open my
>Macintosh formatted hypercard address stack on  my Windows PC. I tried
>to open the stack using the File open stack command, but it did not see
>the stack in that window, so i changed the view to all files. Then it 
>saw the stack, but when it tried to open it, i got a bunch of errors. I
>think I need to change the extension on the Hypercard stack file to a 
>Revolution extension, but I don't know what that is. If this is not the
>answer, can anyone tell me how to get Revolution to read my Hypercard 
>stack. It is saved on my PC's hard drive.
   As has been pointed out by others, Rev can *read* HC stacks just fine. 
HyperTalk and Transcript (the respective languages of HC and Rev) are similar 
enough that many bits of HyperTalk code will just work -- but *other* bits of 
HyperTalk code won't work, and will need to be fixed by a human being. So if the 
errors you're getting are "hey, this code doesn't work!"-type errors, this is 
only to be expected. Hopefully, any "this code doesn't work"-type errors 
contain enough clues that you can figure out *why* Rev doesn't like that particular 
bit of code, and fix the problem.
   If, on the other hand, you're getting "hey, I can't even READ this 
file!"-type errors, there may be something odd about the HC stack. I would suggest 
that you open it up in HC, compact it three times, and *then* try opening it in 
Rev. The reason for triple-compaction: I am given to understand that there are 
some things HC doesn't do to a stack the first time, which it does on the 
second & third times.

   Hope this helps...


From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Mon Nov 28 16:53:35 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:53:35 -0500
Subject: Rev and User Accounts
In-Reply-To: <p06210216bfb04be5646f@[192.168.2.17]>
References: <p06200700bfafd79e0e93@[10.0.1.201]>
	<438A6AB2.70504@hyperactivesw.com>
	<438A8565.7030304@fourthworld.com>
	<p06210216bfb04be5646f@[192.168.2.17]>
Message-ID: <36923F41-ABDB-4901-AA41-0A502310FB31@conncoll.edu>


On Nov 28, 2005, at 12:54 AM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:
>>> Both DC and Rev Player use the same creator code, so it may be  
>>> that OS X thinks they are duplicate apps.
>
> Been zilla'd: <http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi? 
> id=2814>.

But it's still marked "Unconfirmed"?

Charles Hartman



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 28 17:10:21 2005
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:10:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Need help opening a Macintosh Hypercard addess stack on a
	Windows PC with revolution
In-Reply-To: <253.23c62ee.30bcd576@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20051128221021.85871.qmail@web60522.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Cubist at aol.com wrote:
> [snip]
> 
>    If, on the other hand, you're getting "hey, I
> can't even READ this 
> file!"-type errors, there may be something odd about
> the HC stack. I would suggest 
> that you open it up in HC, compact it three times,
> and *then* try opening it in 
> Rev. The reason for triple-compaction: I am given to
> understand that there are 
> some things HC doesn't do to a stack the first time,
> which it does on the 
> second & third times.
> 

If my memory isn't playing tricks on me, I think
you'll have to binhex the stack after compacting it,
before you transfer it to a Windows machine --
otherwise some bytes might not come through correctly.
You can then open this binhexed file directly from
Rev, it will recognize it and convert it -- and it
will even convert some of the resources.
Hee, I may have the memory of a goldfish, but
sometimes it digs up information that could be useful:
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2004-December/007957.html>

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________ 
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From soapdog at mac.com  Mon Nov 28 17:17:33 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:17:33 -0200
Subject: Following this List
In-Reply-To: <20051128212938.42309.qmail@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051128212938.42309.qmail@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C40FFE34-C4A8-435E-8DB6-2C0EF3F117B9@mac.com>

Frank,

move your subscription to digest mode, it's smaller! :-)

cheers
andre
On Nov 28, 2005, at 7:29 PM, Frank R wrote:

> I want to keep following this list.  But, my inbox is getting  
> blasted pretty good.
>   Are there any other options for following this list, other than e- 
> mail?  Is this
>   shadowed to a forum anywhere?     Thanks.
>
>   _________________________________________________________________
>
> Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:
>   Jacque...
>
> Um, actually, foregroundcolor controls both text and border color.
> bordercolor only works on buttons and scrollbars according to the  
> docs.
>
>
> On Nov 28, 2005, at 1:01 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
>> R. Hillen wrote:
>>> Hello list,
>>> I wanted to make a green rect with a red edge, so I wrote
>>> create invisible graphic
>>> set the style of it to rectangle
>>> set the rect of it to 20,20,50,50
>>> set the foregroundcolor of it to 255,0,0 --RGB_Color
>>> set the backgroundcolor of it to 0,255,0 --RGB_Color
>>> set the linesize of it to 2
>>> show it
>>> I got a white rect with a red edge. Why?
>>
>> I'm not sure, because the "foregroundcolor" controls the text
>> color, not the border. If this wasn't a typo, then set the
>> "bordercolor" instead.
>>
>> Also, do the opaque thing like others have suggested.
>>
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
> http://www.shafermedia.com
> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Mon Nov 28 17:20:13 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:20:13 -0800
Subject: visualize fields?
In-Reply-To: <BFAFD4B8.308AD%kray@sonsothunder.com>
References: <BFAFD4B8.308AD%kray@sonsothunder.com>
Message-ID: <p06200701bfb12ed75010@[10.0.1.201]>

>On 11/27/05 7:51 PM, "Timothy Miller" <gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com>
>wrote:
>
>>  In hyperCard, choosing the field tool caused all fields to be faintly
>>  outlined.
>>
>>  As I recall, though I'm not certain, some key combination outlined
>>  even the invisible fields, and fields under other fields, when the
>>  field tool was chosen.
>>
>>  Anyway, just outlining fields was very helpful for working with
>>  fields that have no border and sometimes have no contents.
>>
>>  Is there a way to make Revolution do this, or something like it? If
>>  not, should there be?
>
>There isn't AFAIK, but it wouldn't be hard to make a little utility that did
>this whenever a key combination was pressed. Whether there *should* be is a
>matter of opinion... personally I don't think so (seems like a neat utility
>to me), but that's just me.
>
>Ken Ray
>Sons of Thunder Software


Hi Ken,

Excuse me while I drool on myself. Derrr....

After I sent this message, I had a BFO (blinding flash of the 
obvious). I hoped no one would notice the dumb question. Just 
dragging the edit tool over the area of the card in question will 
satisfy the need to see the locations of fields, most of the time. 
I'm not sure I'm allowed to be a newbie at my age, but I've got no 
other excuse ;-)

I guess a utility could record the properties of each field, then 
give each field a 1 pixel border, show the invisible ones and set 
opaque to false, then change them back again.  Really, just a button 
and a global would be enough. The original field properties could be 
stored as a custom property in the button.

It could be handy, in theory. In practice, it might not satisfy a huge need.

Thanks for your reply.


Tim


From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Mon Nov 28 17:25:53 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:25:53 -0800
Subject: Rev and User Accounts
In-Reply-To: <438A8565.7030304@fourthworld.com>
References: <p06200700bfafd79e0e93@[10.0.1.201]>
	<438A6AB2.70504@hyperactivesw.com> <438A8565.7030304@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <p06200702bfb133926bd9@[10.0.1.201]>

>J. Landman Gay wrote:
>>Both DC and Rev Player use the same creator code, so it may be that 
>>OS X thinks they are duplicate apps.
>
>Is there a benefit to having those apps use duplicate creator codes, 
>or should we Bugzilla that?
>
>--
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Managing Editor, revJournal
>  _______________________________________________________


My original message didn't show up, nor did Jacque's kind reply. 
Unless I missed   other items on this thread, Jacque's theory seems 
reasonable. There's probably no easy workaround...

Well, come to think of it, I guess I could try trashing DC Player. I 
never use it anyway, and I guess I can download another copy if 
needed.

I'll try it, and report back, in case anyone is interested. Good 
clue, Jacque! (as usual)

Tim



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Mon Nov 28 17:32:41 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:32:41 -0800
Subject: DLL usage in RunRev
In-Reply-To: <f54296680511281315v16aa33cfh80bcd9d816c58d78@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200511282127.50387.rishi@puredata.com.au>
	<BFB0669F.30901%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<f54296680511280801l5c7f361fk31228bed22c5df3c@mail.gmail.com>
	<661443695.20051128111349@ahsoftware.net>
	<f54296680511281315v16aa33cfh80bcd9d816c58d78@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <11313376624.20051128143241@ahsoftware.net>

Alessandro-

Monday, November 28, 2005, 1:15:45 PM, you wrote:

> Sorry Mark, but in my company I already use Delphi to create DLLs
> (using "cdecl" option for parameters passing)   ;-)

Yes, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you couldn't create DLLs, just
that you probably can't create *runrev-compatible* DLLs.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 28 17:28:44 2005
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:28:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <438A3788.EA568386@club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <20051128222844.46782.qmail@web60519.mail.yahoo.com>

--- jbv <jbv.silences at club-internet.fr> wrote:
> 
> Dennis,
> 
> Ok that's fine... but still I'm wondering : what (if
> anything) makes
> Transcript different from other languages (beside
> its "almost" plain
> english syntax ?
> Doesn't it feature variables, loops, if-then-else
> structures, arrays,
> functions, etc. just like so many other languages ?
> 
> so what makes it so attractive and loveable ?
> 

While I've used a dozen programming languages, I
really like xTalk because of its sheer productivity:
it gives you many of the advantages of object-oriented
programming (the message path, as Chipp suggested, and
the handlers and properties, packaged in its
English-like object-based syntax), but without the
hassles of having to setting up a class hierarchy,
writing numerous subclasses and trying to make them
all work together even if you start moving parts
around.

With Rev you can do your project in whatever sequence
you want: design the UI, add the scripts, build script
libraries. And constantly test it without having to go
through a compile-link-start-debug cycle. Few
developer tools offer you cross-platform deployment
for MacOS, Windows and Linux without platform-checks
sprinkled throughout your code.

And the tools that offer something 'close' to what Rev
offers, either don't have all the features we take for
granted, or are far more cumbersome to use and build
the little tool that takes you just an hour or two in
Rev. Whenever I get a chance, I'll quickly toss
something together at my day job, where we use
Progress, and my colleagues are quite impressed
(except for the Delphi-lover who regards it as a toy
and always claims he can do better in just about the
same time -- suuuure)

Granted, there are a few things that Rev could add to
give us an even greater edge over our competitors, but
I think the RunRev crew are aware of those items and
working hard to code them. And I can't wait to get my
grubby little paws on those new killer versions...

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Music Unlimited 
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. 
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/


From katir at hindu.org  Mon Nov 28 17:52:33 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:52:33 -1000
Subject: Purge Loop--Destroy Stack no working?
In-Reply-To: <4832E76C-91A3-4B72-A13C-2BDC13E67FCA@daniels-mara.com>
References: <5AA49A88-7491-40DA-AF91-F7EECC3BEAAC@hindu.org>
	<4832E76C-91A3-4B72-A13C-2BDC13E67FCA@daniels-mara.com>
Message-ID: <2881AAF9-2587-4FA8-8890-5426368AD4F1@hindu.org>

Aloha, Jerry:

more feed back.. this problem arose today again, open stack A call  
"transcriber.rev" close... (destroy stack set to true)  try to open a  
different stack with the same name... still in memory, purge loop  
started happening again..

I had actually previously completed deleted Object Gadget... it is  
not even in the gadgets folder now  as of two weeks ago..

I had to disable Constellation completely to continue work.. :- 
(  (because it is so useful...)

Sivakatirswami


On Nov 14, 2005, at 2:13 AM, Jerry Daniels wrote:

> Sivakatirswami,
>
> I thought about your problem so more and have the following  
> observations, questions and recommendations.
>
> I don't think the problem is with the release version of  
> Constellation you are using but, it is possible that there is a  
> problem with one of Constellation's pre-release "buddies", Object  
> Gadget.
>
> Do you have Object Gadget open when this is happening? There is a  
> known issue with Object Gadget where it verifies its list and  
> inadvertently keeps the stacks in memory because it likes to test  
> every object's parent stack by its long stack name to see if it  
> exists. Please test without Object Gadget and see if it makes any  
> difference.
>
> Object Gadget it not released software, and it has known issues.  
> For this reason, I only use Object Gadget when I need it for  
> something and keep it close if I don't need it--and I have no  
> difficulties with it. That's also why it is discounted so that it  
> costs about two dollars right now. Once we get Object Gadget  
> released, this will no longer be an issue (and the discounted price  
> will go away, too).
>
> Please let me know how your test without Object Gadget goes--or how  
> you do with discretionary use of it as indicated above.
>
> It would seem unlikely to me that your stacks are corrupted. My  
> experience with corrupted stacks usually means the stack will not  
> open and if it does it appears to have extremely sluggish behavior  
> and slows down the IDE noticeably.
>
> Also, all of the products we sell are pretty stingy with doling out  
> custom properties and there are preferences to prevent them from  
> being used at all. I don't believe custom props would cause your  
> problem, in any case.
>
> There are many people (I am becoming one) who prefer to store all  
> data outside the stack--in a text file using XML or the like. Like  
> others, when saving on close in the IDE, if something "unexpected"  
> happens with the IDE, it can affect the process of saving and THEN  
> corruption can take place. I haven't had problems with explicit  
> saving in the IDE, whereas I have had problems with the implicit  
> save you noted in your closeStack handler.
>
> Best,
>
> Jerry
>
> http://www.daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm
> Scripts and properties in a tabbed editor!
>
> On Nov 13, 2005, at 10:36 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote:
>
>
>> The past few days REv is repeatedly asking me if I want to purge a  
>> stack in memory with the same name... Most of my stacks have
>>
>> on closestack
>>    save this stack
>> end close stack
>>
>> And for some reason, if Constellation is running, this puts me  
>> into an infinite loop where Rev is unable to save (because there  
>> is a stack in memory with the same name) ... I click save or purge  
>> or cancel, it doesn't matter... the msg comes right back..
>>
>> if I don't boot constellation, I don't get into a loop but still  
>> though all my stacks are set to Destroy on close, rev keeps asking  
>> to purge a previously closed stack if I open another which has the  
>> same name.
>>
>> I'm thinking something has been corrupted or a custom prop is  
>> "stuck" somewhere that thinks these stacks are in memory when they  
>> or not, or they are not being destroyed when they should be... any  
>> ideas?  Rebooting Rev does not change the behavior.
>>
>> Sivakatirswami
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Mon Nov 28 17:52:46 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 23:52:46 +0100
Subject: AW: Following this List
In-Reply-To: <C40FFE34-C4A8-435E-8DB6-2C0EF3F117B9@mac.com>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCMEKLDNAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hello,

I must say I am also somewhat overwhelmed with the flood of messages (114 today, over 2000 in the last two months). I know there is a parallel list regarding externals, which seams to be dormant (or dead?), but is there probably a sensible way to separate the list into different topics, like
- technical questions
- Revolution company related
- (assumed) bugs
- xTalk philosophy
(there must be better categories)?
But in any case, being fairly new to Revolution (Dreamcard) and interested in external functions and commands, I would find more structure and a separation really helpful.

All the best
Thomas

--
Thomas Fischer
Salzburg
 
> -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]Im Auftrag von Andre
> Garzia
> Gesendet: Montag, 28. November 2005 23:18
> An: How to use Revolution
> Betreff: Re: Following this List
> 
> 
> Frank,
> 
> move your subscription to digest mode, it's smaller! :-)
> 
> cheers
> andre
> On Nov 28, 2005, at 7:29 PM, Frank R wrote:
> 
> > I want to keep following this list.  But, my inbox is getting  
> > blasted pretty good.
> >   Are there any other options for following this list, other than e- 
> > mail?  Is this
> >   shadowed to a forum anywhere?     Thanks.
> >
> >   _________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:
> >   Jacque...
> >
> > Um, actually, foregroundcolor controls both text and border color.
> > bordercolor only works on buttons and scrollbars according to the  
> > docs.
> >
> >
> > On Nov 28, 2005, at 1:01 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> >
> >> R. Hillen wrote:
> >>> Hello list,
> >>> I wanted to make a green rect with a red edge, so I wrote
> >>> create invisible graphic
> >>> set the style of it to rectangle
> >>> set the rect of it to 20,20,50,50
> >>> set the foregroundcolor of it to 255,0,0 --RGB_Color
> >>> set the backgroundcolor of it to 0,255,0 --RGB_Color
> >>> set the linesize of it to 2
> >>> show it
> >>> I got a white rect with a red edge. Why?
> >>
> >> I'm not sure, because the "foregroundcolor" controls the text
> >> color, not the border. If this wasn't a typo, then set the
> >> "bordercolor" instead.
> >>
> >> Also, do the opaque thing like others have suggested.
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-revolution mailing list
> >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
> > http://www.shafermedia.com
> > Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
> >> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Nov 28 17:55:53 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:55:53 -0600
Subject: No backgroundcolor
In-Reply-To: <9ED6B7BE-EC5C-4538-B5BE-E09D8EDC25BE@danshafer.com>
References: <F320CC4D-3792-439F-A311-0CEFA22328E9@richard-hillen.de>
	<438B703F.4060209@hyperactivesw.com>
	<9ED6B7BE-EC5C-4538-B5BE-E09D8EDC25BE@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <438B8AF9.5070709@hyperactivesw.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:
 > Jacque...
 >
 > Um, actually, foregroundcolor controls both text and border color.
 > bordercolor only works on buttons and scrollbars according to the docs.

Before I responded I did a quick test and foregroundcolor didn't change 
the edges. Bordercolor did. But I had to turn off the threeD property to 
see it -- with threeD turned on, the border was always gray no matter 
what. In any case, the forecolor didn't change the border color of the 
field.

This is all on OS X. Maybe there is a difference on other operating systems?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From bnz2 at cdc.gov  Mon Nov 28 17:56:14 2005
From: bnz2 at cdc.gov (Lynch, Jonathan)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 17:56:14 -0500
Subject: Following this List
Message-ID: <64878EF567131D4596246171F75FD4A9968392@m-epo-1.epo.cdc.gov>

We need a proper forum...

Preferably on a sister site to the as-yet-non-existent revdoc wiki...


Forums can be set up with subscription options, so you get the messages
by e-mail, but don't have to. You could also get just certain categories
by e-mail.



-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Thomas
Fischer
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 5:53 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: AW: Following this List

Hello,

I must say I am also somewhat overwhelmed with the flood of messages
(114 today, over 2000 in the last two months). I know there is a
parallel list regarding externals, which seams to be dormant (or dead?),
but is there probably a sensible way to separate the list into different
topics, like
- technical questions
- Revolution company related
- (assumed) bugs
- xTalk philosophy
(there must be better categories)?
But in any case, being fairly new to Revolution (Dreamcard) and
interested in external functions and commands, I would find more
structure and a separation really helpful.

All the best
Thomas

--
Thomas Fischer
Salzburg
 
> -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]Im Auftrag von Andre
> Garzia
> Gesendet: Montag, 28. November 2005 23:18
> An: How to use Revolution
> Betreff: Re: Following this List
> 
> 
> Frank,
> 
> move your subscription to digest mode, it's smaller! :-)
> 
> cheers
> andre
> On Nov 28, 2005, at 7:29 PM, Frank R wrote:
> 
> > I want to keep following this list.  But, my inbox is getting  
> > blasted pretty good.
> >   Are there any other options for following this list, other than e-

> > mail?  Is this
> >   shadowed to a forum anywhere?     Thanks.
> >
> >   _________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:
> >   Jacque...
> >
> > Um, actually, foregroundcolor controls both text and border color.
> > bordercolor only works on buttons and scrollbars according to the  
> > docs.
> >
> >
> > On Nov 28, 2005, at 1:01 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> >
> >> R. Hillen wrote:
> >>> Hello list,
> >>> I wanted to make a green rect with a red edge, so I wrote
> >>> create invisible graphic
> >>> set the style of it to rectangle
> >>> set the rect of it to 20,20,50,50
> >>> set the foregroundcolor of it to 255,0,0 --RGB_Color
> >>> set the backgroundcolor of it to 0,255,0 --RGB_Color
> >>> set the linesize of it to 2
> >>> show it
> >>> I got a white rect with a red edge. Why?
> >>
> >> I'm not sure, because the "foregroundcolor" controls the text
> >> color, not the border. If this wasn't a typo, then set the
> >> "bordercolor" instead.
> >>
> >> Also, do the opaque thing like others have suggested.
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-revolution mailing list
> >> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
> > http://www.shafermedia.com
> > Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
> >> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk  Mon Nov 28 17:35:04 2005
From: mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:35:04 +0000
Subject: Daily Comics in RunRev... A Garfield a day keeps thestress	away!
In-Reply-To: <000301c5f450$538f7a00$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3>
References: <EF512503-C1B4-46D1-B9C3-449917BDD4E6@pandora.be><000b01c5f441$73919720$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3>
	<FB0DBB17-1906-4420-972C-4D2F40CC5959@mac.com>
	<000301c5f450$538f7a00$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3>
Message-ID: <438B8618.7090103@harbourhost.co.uk>

Jerry Muelver wrote:
> From: "Andre Garzia"
> 
>> Jerry,
>>
>> RevOnline is only accesible thru Rev IDE or Dreamcard Player. Launch  
>> Rev IDE, there's a menu "development", the first item of this menu is 
>> RevOnline... ;-)
>>
>> Cheers
>> andre
> 
> 
> Whoops.... Nope. I've got Rev 2.2.1, Linux "get acquainted" version, 
> with no Rev Online in the Development menu. I guess I'll have to wait 
> until my CFO (wife) comes through with the upgrade cost. I need a 
> "persuader". I'll put together a Revolution Linux replacement for MS 
> Office and OpenOffice, so she can see that I'm serious about this.
> 
> ---- Jerry Muelver

Jerry,

All is not lost though. List member Eric Chatonet recently made 
available a stack for accessing the stacks at revOnline, which should 
work with your version. It is called online picker and can be downloaded 
at Eric's website:
http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/

Martin Baxter


From tkuypers at pandora.be  Mon Nov 28 18:09:00 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 00:09:00 +0100
Subject: Daily Comics in RunRev... A Garfield a day keeps thestress	away!
In-Reply-To: <438B8618.7090103@harbourhost.co.uk>
References: <EF512503-C1B4-46D1-B9C3-449917BDD4E6@pandora.be><000b01c5f441$73919720$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3>
	<FB0DBB17-1906-4420-972C-4D2F40CC5959@mac.com>
	<000301c5f450$538f7a00$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3>
	<438B8618.7090103@harbourhost.co.uk>
Message-ID: <56F70FB5-760B-4735-8C9D-90F42D5C4A69@pandora.be>

hahaha
How a fun stack like this can fill up a list with a completely  
different subject ;-)

If you can't get it solved Jerry, I can send it to you off-list, no  
problem...

Ton


On 28-nov-05, at 23:35, Martin Baxter wrote:

> Jerry Muelver wrote:
>> From: "Andre Garzia"
>>> Jerry,
>>>
>>> RevOnline is only accesible thru Rev IDE or Dreamcard Player.  
>>> Launch  Rev IDE, there's a menu "development", the first item of  
>>> this menu is RevOnline... ;-)
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> andre
>> Whoops.... Nope. I've got Rev 2.2.1, Linux "get acquainted"  
>> version, with no Rev Online in the Development menu. I guess I'll  
>> have to wait until my CFO (wife) comes through with the upgrade  
>> cost. I need a "persuader". I'll put together a Revolution Linux  
>> replacement for MS Office and OpenOffice, so she can see that I'm  
>> serious about this.
>> ---- Jerry Muelver
>
> Jerry,
>
> All is not lost though. List member Eric Chatonet recently made  
> available a stack for accessing the stacks at revOnline, which  
> should work with your version. It is called online picker and can  
> be downloaded at Eric's website:
> http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
>
> Martin Baxter
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Nov 28 18:12:32 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:12:32 -0800
Subject: No backgroundcolor
In-Reply-To: <438B8AF9.5070709@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <F320CC4D-3792-439F-A311-0CEFA22328E9@richard-hillen.de>
	<438B703F.4060209@hyperactivesw.com>
	<9ED6B7BE-EC5C-4538-B5BE-E09D8EDC25BE@danshafer.com>
	<438B8AF9.5070709@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <A5683E04-C9C0-405F-9D8D-5BA63D1F1AF7@danshafer.com>

The issue may be found in your use of the word "field." The original  
poster was talking about a graphic, not a field. I'm testing on OS X  
and it works as I described.

On Nov 28, 2005, at 2:55 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Before I responded I did a quick test and foregroundcolor didn't  
> change the edges. Bordercolor did. But I had to turn off the threeD  
> property to see it -- with threeD turned on, the border was always  
> gray no matter what. In any case, the forecolor didn't change the  
> border color of the field.
>
> This is all on OS X. Maybe there is a difference on other operating  
> systems?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From rjb at robelko.com  Mon Nov 28 18:10:04 2005
From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 00:10:04 +0100
Subject: This is what REALLY SUCKS about whingeing
In-Reply-To: <a05210609bfb0b84b8c22@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <20051126180005.A21F08254A4@mail.runrev.com>
	<53c68b243f6cd8e75c901b75fc15d974@siphonophore.com>
	<4388D42B.8020503@fourthworld.com>
	<DCBA3982-7E7E-408E-8FDA-ED974CBE1355@hindu.org>
	<a05210609bfb0b84b8c22@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <a06110402bfb13d7f39a0@[141.89.100.174]>

>Well I wish I knew what you were doing differently from me! I have 
>been using Rev for about 18 months have had at least 8 corruptions! 
>However, I started under MacOS 9 and to be honest I haven't seen 
>many since I switched to Mac OS X, In fact just 2 I think.

Hmm, Dave, I wonder what you do to get so many corruptions under OS9 
:) I have been running there for some 5 years and had not a single 
corruption. And I have stacks in constant running as cgi's. I recall 
only a single instance of failing save but switching to the backup 
file was simple enough to recover. Earlier version would ocassionally 
(some releases regularly) quit on me but all I ever lost was what was 
not saved.

Robert


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 28 18:22:27 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:22:27 -0800
Subject: How to check what card a stack is currently viewing
In-Reply-To: <585EDC21-90B3-4B37-BD83-0E3D5E406E2C@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <BFB0D133.311BE%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

On 11/28/05 12:31 PM, "Dan Shafer" <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:

> Those who have already answered have told you how to check for the
> current card in the stack in which the handler is executing. But I
> had a feeling you were trying to check the current card showing in a
> stack *other* than the current stack.
in my response I used the following statement that worked for me:::
get the id of this card of stack "Showcase Functions"
-- does not have to be the active stack
could also be::
get line 1 of field "choiceList" of this card of stack "Showcase Functions"

Advanced note for closed stacks::
Now close the stack, and the following still works::
get the name of this card of stack "Showcase Functions"
also::
get line 1 of field "choiceList" of this card of stack "Showcase Functions"
and also these three lines::
put "Ethel" into  line 1 of field "choiceList" of this card of stack
"Showcase Functions"
save stack "Showcase Functions"
go to stack "Showcase Functions"  --once again visible

Jim Ault
Las Vegas




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Nov 28 18:26:36 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 17:26:36 -0600
Subject: No backgroundcolor
In-Reply-To: <9ED6B7BE-EC5C-4538-B5BE-E09D8EDC25BE@danshafer.com>
References: <F320CC4D-3792-439F-A311-0CEFA22328E9@richard-hillen.de>
	<438B703F.4060209@hyperactivesw.com>
	<9ED6B7BE-EC5C-4538-B5BE-E09D8EDC25BE@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <438B922C.7020405@hyperactivesw.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:
 > Jacque...
 >
 > Um, actually, foregroundcolor controls both text and border color.
 > bordercolor only works on buttons and scrollbars according to the docs.

Well, now you've got me curious. I think the summary line of this entry 
in the docs is wrong, at least on OS X. The text explanation below it is 
correct; the discussion doesn't talk about border colors, only text 
colors. For a standard rectangle button, only the bordercolor worked to 
change the border (provided threeD is false.) Fields were the same, only 
bordercolor changes the edges. Scrollbars are drawn by the system, so 
can't be colored at all in OS X, even though there are a few color boxes 
enabled in the Inspector (none of them do anything.) I know scrollbars 
allow more colors in MacOS and Windows though.

I didn't test on Windows. Obviously since the original poster got a red 
border on the field using foregroundcolor, there must be a difference on 
that OS. I'd like to know.

Can anyone on a Windows box summarize what you get? Or do I have to drag 
mine out of the closet again? ;)

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Mon Nov 28 18:30:56 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:30:56 -0800
Subject: Rev and User Accounts
Message-ID: <p06200700bfb14294f03d@[10.0.1.2]>

>
>>J. Landman Gay wrote:
>>>Both DC and Rev Player use the same creator code, so it may be 
>>>that OS X thinks they are duplicate apps.
>>
>>Is there a benefit to having those apps use duplicate creator 
>>codes, or should we Bugzilla that?
>>
>>--
>>  Richard Gaskin
>>  Managing Editor, revJournal
>>  _______________________________________________________
>


Timothy Miller replied:

>
>Well, come to think of it, I guess I could try trashing DC Player. I 
>never use it anyway, and I guess I can download another copy if 
>needed.
>
>I'll try it, and report back, in case anyone is interested. Good 
>clue, Jacque! (as usual)
>
>Tim


Yup. That worked. If I put DC Player in the trash, then I can allow 
or disallow Revolution Dreamcard on the "parental controls" list.

FWIW, it seems kinda silly to call it "parental controls." Seems like 
there are other reasons the administrator might want to disallow a 
subordinate user's access to certain applications.

In any case, I hope this might be slightly useful to someone.

Cheers,

Tim


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon Nov 28 18:37:07 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 17:37:07 -0600
Subject: No backgroundcolor
In-Reply-To: <A5683E04-C9C0-405F-9D8D-5BA63D1F1AF7@danshafer.com>
References: <F320CC4D-3792-439F-A311-0CEFA22328E9@richard-hillen.de>
	<438B703F.4060209@hyperactivesw.com>
	<9ED6B7BE-EC5C-4538-B5BE-E09D8EDC25BE@danshafer.com>
	<438B8AF9.5070709@hyperactivesw.com>
	<A5683E04-C9C0-405F-9D8D-5BA63D1F1AF7@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <438B94A3.8040403@hyperactivesw.com>

Dan Shafer wrote:
> The issue may be found in your use of the word "field." The original  
> poster was talking about a graphic, not a field. I'm testing on OS X  
> and it works as I described.

Argh. A graphic! So I'm completely off track.

You can disregard the post I sent later too. Sorry to have contributed 
to list bloat.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From shaosean at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 28 18:41:50 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 18:41:50 -0500
Subject: [UPD] bitwise math functions (v1.2) -- long post
Message-ID: <BAY105-F321DB355E95B5F93BC1D4CC3480@phx.gbl>

Well after a few more days of working on the bitwise math stuff I finally 
have it working.. It's probably not 100% when working outside of 32-bit 
numbers, but it tries.. All shifts are between 0-31 (32 is the same as 0).. 
I tested against the JavaScript answers and they are identical. Thanks to 
everyone on the Chatrev server for helping, testing and putting up with me 
;-)

Here are the functions:

function bitwiseAnd p1, p2     -- other languages (&)
  local tP1Neg, tP2Neg
  if (p1 < 0) then
    put bitNot abs(p1) +1 into p1
    put TRUE into tP1Neg
  end if
  if (p2 < 0) then
    put bitNot abs(p2) +1 into p2
    put TRUE into tP2Neg
  end if
  if (tP1Neg) AND (tP2Neg) then
    return 0 - bitNot ((p1 bitAnd p2) -1)
  else return p1 bitAnd p2
end bitwiseAnd


function bitwiseOr p1, p2     -- other languages (|)
  local tP1Neg, tP2Neg
  if (p1 < 0) then
    put bitNot abs(p1) +1 into p1
    put TRUE into tP1Neg
  end if
  if (p2 < 0) then
    put bitNot abs(p2) +1 into p2
    put TRUE into tP2Neg
  end if
  if (tP1Neg) OR (tP2Neg) then
    return 0 - bitNot ((p1 bitOr p2) -1)
  else return p1 bitOr p2
end bitwiseOr


function bitwiseXor p1, p2     -- other languages (^)
  local tP1Neg, tP2Neg
  if (p1 < 0) then
    put bitNot abs(p1) +1 into p1
    put TRUE into tP1Neg
  end if
  if (p2 < 0) then
    put bitNot abs(p2) +1 into p2
    put TRUE into tP2Neg
  end if
  if (tP1Neg) AND (tP2Neg) then
    return p1 bitXor p2
  else if (tP1Neg) OR (tP2Neg) then
    return 0 - bitNot ((p1 bitXor p2) -1)
  else return p1 bitXor p2
end bitwiseXor


function bitwiseNot p1     -- other languages (~)
  return 0 - (p1 + 1)
end bitwiseNot


function bitwiseShiftLeft p1, p2     -- other languages (<<)
  local tP1Neg
  put (abs(p2) MOD 32) into p2
  if (p2 = 0) then return p1     -- no shifting
  if (p1 < 0) then put TRUE into tP1Neg
  put baseConvert(abs(p1), 10, 2) into p1
  repeat p2
    put 0 after p1
  end repeat
  if (tP1Neg) then
    if (baseConvert(p1, 2, 10) > 2147483648) then return 2147483648 - 
(baseConvert(p1, 2, 10) MOD 2147483648)
    else return 0 - baseConvert(p1, 2, 10)
  else
    if (baseConvert(p1, 2, 10) >= 2147483648) then return 0 - (2147483648 - 
baseConvert(char -31 to -1 of p1, 2, 10))
    else return baseConvert(p1, 2, 10)
  end if
end bitwiseShiftLeft


function bitwiseShiftRight p1, p2     -- other languages (>>) and (>>>)
  # There is a third optional parameter which will force left-pad the binary 
number with 0's
  # This in effect switches negative numbers into positive
  # bitwiseShiftRight(13, 4)     -- other languages (>>)
  # bitwiseShiftRight(13, 4, TRUE)     -- other languages (>>>)

  local tP1Neg, tPad, tZeroFill
  put (abs(p2) MOD 32) into p2
  if (paramCount() = 3) then put TRUE into tZeroFill
  if (p1 = 0) then return p1
  if (p1 > 0) then
    if (p2 = 0) then return p1     -- no shifting
    put baseConvert(abs(p1), 10, 2) into p1
    repeat p2
      delete char -1 of p1
      if (tZeroFill) then put 0 before p1
    end repeat
    return baseConvert(p1, 2, 10)
  end if
  if (p1 < 0) then
    if (tZeroFill) then
      put baseConvert(bitNot abs(p1) +1, 10, 2) into p1
      repeat p2
        delete char -1 of p1
        put 0 before p1
      end repeat
      put abs(baseConvert(p1, 2, 10)) into p1
      if (p1 = 0) then return 0
      else return p1
    else
      if (p2 = 0) then return p1     -- no shifting
      put abs(p1) / (2 ^ p2) into p1
      if (p1 is an integer) then return 0 - p1
      return 0 - trunc(p1) - 1
    end if
  end if
end bitwiseShiftRight


function bitwiseRotateLeft p1, p2
  local tSL, tSR
  put bitwiseShiftLeft(p1, p2) into tSL
  put bitwiseShiftRight(p1, abs(p2)) into tSR
  return bitwiseOr(tSL, tSR)
end bitwiseRotateLeft

function bitwiseRotateRight p1, p2
  local tSR, tSL
  put bitwiseShiftRight(p1, p2) into tSR
  put bitwiseShiftLeft(p1, 32-p2) into tSL
  return bitwiseOR(tSR, tSL)
end bitwiseRotateRight


--
-Sean <www.shaosean.tk>
1f u c4n r34d th15 u n33d 2 g3t l41d

_________________________________________________________________
Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/



From revdan at danshafer.com  Mon Nov 28 19:05:48 2005
From: revdan at danshafer.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:05:48 -0800
Subject: AW: Following this List
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCMEKLDNAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
References: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCMEKLDNAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <F4D344FA-6559-4EC6-B37E-92859EBDF9D3@danshafer.com>

I have always resisted the idea of sub-dividing this list for a  
number of reasons. But as Rev gets more popular, as this list grows  
in population and as people like me continue to see this list as a  
place to discuss topics that are arguably semi-tangential, perhaps  
some reorganization would help.

I generally try to put a [OT] in front of the subject line when I  
post something that's even possibly marginally off-topic. You can use  
your email app's filter functions to bury those kinds of  
conversations before they hit your In Box. I've been involved in some  
lists where the user community simply adopted a convention like that  
so that categorizing messages was up to the individual who initiates  
a thread. Such systems work OK but not perfectly because newbies  
don't always get the clue right away and because some posts are hard  
to categorize.

Using an email app that lets you view emails by threads can go a long  
way toward relieving the glut, BTW. Combining that tactic with  
filtering can significantly reduce the number of emails that you  
actually have to read.


On Nov 28, 2005, at 2:52 PM, Thomas Fischer wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I must say I am also somewhat overwhelmed with the flood of  
> messages (114 today, over 2000 in the last two months). I know  
> there is a parallel list regarding externals, which seams to be  
> dormant (or dead?), but is there probably a sensible way to  
> separate the list into different topics, like
> - technical questions
> - Revolution company related
> - (assumed) bugs
> - xTalk philosophy
> (there must be better categories)?
> But in any case, being fairly new to Revolution (Dreamcard) and  
> interested in external functions and commands, I would find more  
> structure and a separation really helpful.
>
> All the best
> Thomas
>
> --
> Thomas Fischer
> Salzburg
>
>> -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]Im Auftrag von Andre
>> Garzia
>> Gesendet: Montag, 28. November 2005 23:18
>> An: How to use Revolution
>> Betreff: Re: Following this List
>>
>>
>> Frank,
>>
>> move your subscription to digest mode, it's smaller! :-)
>>
>> cheers
>> andre
>> On Nov 28, 2005, at 7:29 PM, Frank R wrote:
>>
>>> I want to keep following this list.  But, my inbox is getting
>>> blasted pretty good.
>>>   Are there any other options for following this list, other than e-
>>> mail?  Is this
>>>   shadowed to a forum anywhere?     Thanks.
>>>
>>>   _________________________________________________________________
>>>
>>> Dan Shafer <revdan at danshafer.com> wrote:
>>>   Jacque...
>>>
>>> Um, actually, foregroundcolor controls both text and border color.
>>> bordercolor only works on buttons and scrollbars according to the
>>> docs.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 28, 2005, at 1:01 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>>>
>>>> R. Hillen wrote:
>>>>> Hello list,
>>>>> I wanted to make a green rect with a red edge, so I wrote
>>>>> create invisible graphic
>>>>> set the style of it to rectangle
>>>>> set the rect of it to 20,20,50,50
>>>>> set the foregroundcolor of it to 255,0,0 --RGB_Color
>>>>> set the backgroundcolor of it to 0,255,0 --RGB_Color
>>>>> set the linesize of it to 2
>>>>> show it
>>>>> I got a white rect with a red edge. Why?
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure, because the "foregroundcolor" controls the text
>>>> color, not the border. If this wasn't a typo, then set the
>>>> "bordercolor" instead.
>>>>
>>>> Also, do the opaque thing like others have suggested.
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
>>> http://www.shafermedia.com
>>> Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>>>> From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html




From jerry at hytext.com  Mon Nov 28 19:22:02 2005
From: jerry at hytext.com (Jerry Muelver)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 18:22:02 -0600
Subject: Daily Comics in RunRev... A Garfield a day keeps thestress	away!
References: <EF512503-C1B4-46D1-B9C3-449917BDD4E6@pandora.be><000b01c5f441$73919720$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3><FB0DBB17-1906-4420-972C-4D2F40CC5959@mac.com><000301c5f450$538f7a00$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3>
	<438B8618.7090103@harbourhost.co.uk>
Message-ID: <001001c5f47a$f67000d0$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3>

From: "Martin Baxter" <
Subject: Re: Daily Comics in RunRev... A Garfield a day keeps thestress 
away!


> Jerry,
>
> All is not lost though. List member Eric Chatonet recently made available 
> a stack for accessing the stacks at revOnline, which should work with your 
> version. It is called online picker and can be downloaded at Eric's 
> website:
> http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
>
> Martin Baxter

Got it, Martin, thanks much!

---- Jerry Muelver 



From troy at rpsystems.net  Mon Nov 28 19:40:02 2005
From: troy at rpsystems.net (Troy Rollins)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:40:02 -0500
Subject: AW: Following this List
In-Reply-To: <F4D344FA-6559-4EC6-B37E-92859EBDF9D3@danshafer.com>
References: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCMEKLDNAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
	<F4D344FA-6559-4EC6-B37E-92859EBDF9D3@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <b0dc03dfd97088d30dae2f18b1c37b7e@rpsystems.net>


On Nov 28, 2005, at 7:05 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Using an email app that lets you view emails by threads can go a long 
> way toward relieving the glut, BTW. Combining that tactic with 
> filtering can significantly reduce the number of emails that you 
> actually have to read.

Of course, this very thread was hijacked from one called "No background 
color", and therefore it get categorized as such in threaded readers - 
so once again, it is up to the initiator of the thread to understand 
how to properly start a fresh one.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net



From tkuypers at pandora.be  Mon Nov 28 19:50:37 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 01:50:37 +0100
Subject: Updated version of Daily Comics in RunRev... A Garfield a day keeps
	thestress	away!
In-Reply-To: <001001c5f47a$f67000d0$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3>
References: <EF512503-C1B4-46D1-B9C3-449917BDD4E6@pandora.be><000b01c5f441$73919720$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3><FB0DBB17-1906-4420-972C-4D2F40CC5959@mac.com><000301c5f450$538f7a00$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3>
	<438B8618.7090103@harbourhost.co.uk>
	<001001c5f47a$f67000d0$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3>
Message-ID: <FDD4877A-F10F-4E4B-95DD-F61D905DECD2@pandora.be>

Just updated the version online...
For the Gadget Bar users: Just drop it into your Gadget folder and  
click on it when you need a break ;-)

Enjoy,


Ton Kuypers
Digital Media Partners bvba
Tel. +32 (0)477 / 739 530
Fax +32 (0)14 / 71 03 04
http://www.dmp-int.com





From katir at hindu.org  Mon Nov 28 20:04:05 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:04:05 -1000
Subject: Mac app binding -- Setting Windows Registry
Message-ID: <030142F8-9846-409D-9F4D-73B1E5CF0DD5@hindu.org>

I don't use installers.. People just download stacks, standalone or  
otherwise, and run them.

1) I'm wondering, to set the windows double-clickable.rev app-doc  
binding, if one were to put this into  the preopen stack handler...

if platform()="Win32"
     get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.rev\", "Revolution")
end if

which obviously will run every time the stack is opened, even though  
it was set initially and only really needed to be set  once...

If this "set the registry again, (and again, and again...) everytime  
you open" could be problematic in anyway?

Of course there will be many other strategies, but I always start  
with KISS.

2) Is there a way to hack the rev IDE to globally set the  
stackFileType to that this is *always* set to the Mac Creator Code I  
have from Apple, for my main player?  And, does this property tay  
alive through the entire session if you haven't quit (thus is applied  
to any and all stacks being saved.
     b) once this set for a stack... does it stick? or, is the  
stackFileType "momentary"
     c) how can you query the "stackFileType" property of a stack (if  
I could I could answer b) above

3) if a  users does a Save As under my player, will the new stack  
have the stackFileType applied?


Sivakatirswami





From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 20:33:08 2005
From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 17:33:08 -0800
Subject: AW: Following this List
In-Reply-To: <b0dc03dfd97088d30dae2f18b1c37b7e@rpsystems.net>
References: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCMEKLDNAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
	<F4D344FA-6559-4EC6-B37E-92859EBDF9D3@danshafer.com>
	<b0dc03dfd97088d30dae2f18b1c37b7e@rpsystems.net>
Message-ID: <70ed6b130511281733o21c7c237l1c3c80f07d9dbc44@mail.gmail.com>

Troy.....

So true. That's one of the things threaded email apps need to get a
lotbetter at, IMNSHO.

On 11/28/05, Troy Rollins <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:
>
>
> Of course, this very thread was hijacked from one called "No background
> color", and therefore it get categorized as such in threaded readers -
> so once again, it is up to the initiator of the thread to understand
> how to properly start a fresh one.
>
>


--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


From shaosean at hotmail.com  Mon Nov 28 20:43:26 2005
From: shaosean at hotmail.com (Sean Shao)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:43:26 -0500
Subject: [UPD] bitwiseRotateLeft
Message-ID: <BAY105-F264E9A98193204B50741B7C34B0@phx.gbl>

function bitwiseRotateLeft p1, p2
  local tSL, tSR
  put bitwiseShiftLeft(p1, p2) into tSL
  put bitwiseShiftRight(p1, 32-p2, TRUE) into tSR     -- updated line
  return bitwiseOr(tSL, tSR)
end bitwiseRotateLeft

Now I'm not too certain if the rotateRight is correct..
-Sean

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now! 
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/



From erikhans08 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 28 21:26:29 2005
From: erikhans08 at yahoo.com (Erik Hansen)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 18:26:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Zippy the Pinhead invented "Are we having fun yet?".
In-Reply-To: <FDD4877A-F10F-4E4B-95DD-F61D905DECD2@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <20051129022629.42157.qmail@web33012.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Zippy the Pinhead invented "Are we having fun
yet?".
Garfield got the rights.

erik at erikhansen.org    http://www.erikhansen.org


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Music Unlimited 
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. 
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/


From katir at hindu.org  Mon Nov 28 21:26:49 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:26:49 -1000
Subject: More on Windows Registry
Message-ID: <B58B1EDF-F3EC-426A-AAE2-6183E594528B@hindu.org>

I just realized that:

     get setRegistry("HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.rev\", "Revolution")

is probably not going to work for my app. But I don't see any place  
to set "type" in the Standalone config for Windows. Is it simply the  
filename of the application without the .exe on the end?

TIA
Sivakatirswami





From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Mon Nov 28 23:32:09 2005
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:32:09 +0800
Subject: [OT] LEGO - for those who missed the point
In-Reply-To: <web-339493130@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339493130@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <f73a98160511282032g4b7b8a64q4e49e1e2a400a0a5@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks so much for the link.


From katir at hindu.org  Mon Nov 28 23:36:08 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 18:36:08 -1000
Subject: Field Corruption? 
Message-ID: <99DFA035-AE7C-4A56-BD30-4DFFEECBD0F0@hindu.org>

I have suddenly received from a user of one of my stack that has been  
working fine for several years, are report that "my changes are not  
being saved to the disk file!"

I had them email me the stack and have discovered this rather  
incredible, obscure problem:

What you see in the field is not what you get if:

a) you put that field into a variable and write the variable to disk

b) copy the text and paste into BBEdit

c) simply put the fld into a url (to save to disk)

Now, I have isolated the problem to one long paragraph... tha simply  
does not change... not matter what edits you make on screen and in  
the field... even if you save the stack.. quit revolution, open  
again.. .your edits will appea there on screen, but not in any kind  
of output.

Further more... this is also apparent in the "contents" property of  
the field where this one paragraph is "Stuck" in there and no edits  
to the field will change it...

Anyone experience this before?  Could some one look at the stack for me?

I will do some more tests, like create a new stack and past the text  
the is "stuck" into a new field, but if someone had ideas, that would  
help... it has my user *very* worried (for good reason)

Sivakatirswami





From dave at crystalpiersw.com  Tue Nov 29 00:02:56 2005
From: dave at crystalpiersw.com (Dave Beck)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 02:02:56 -0300
Subject: Load URL returns error 10049
Message-ID: <20051129042605.3C7E3824E67@mail.runrev.com>

 

Here are the results of this next round of testing. Sorry about the delay -
again it took a long time for the customer to get back to me with the
results of the tests. I'm afraid they are quite puzzling to me and seem to
point towards a bug in the Rev internet lib or the engine itself, but maybe
somebody with more experience could chime in on that.

 

Again, to reiterate, the problem is that the load URL command fails for this
user when trying to load a web page and the URLStatus function returns
"error". Then the libURLErrorData function returns "Error 10049". This
problem is isolated to this user and the stand alone has been distributed
and works as expected for over 50 others, all accessing the same hard coded
URL.

 

I had the customer check to see if the same URL loaded in her browser
without problems, and the answer was yes. I then built a special stand along
for this customer that accesses the website directly through the IP instead
of using the DNS lookup, but the same error was still generated. I then
built another standalone that attempts to access google through the load
command as a sanity check, and what happened was that the load failed again
and this different error was returned by libURLErrorData:

 

Error loading on socket

 

Again, the customer does not have any problems accessing the internet or
google through her web browser.

 

Dave, to answer your question, the initial error returned by libURLErrorData
is the exact string "Error 10049".

 

Erin, I had her give me all her configuration info. There are no proxy
server settings, and in the Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) settings she has
"Obtain an IP address automatically" and "Obtain DNS server address
automatically" turned on.

 

Any more ideas?? Is there a way to find more detailed information about what
could be going wrong and when? 

 

Thanks so much for all of your help,

 

David Beck



From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 00:25:48 2005
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 13:25:48 +0800
Subject: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail
In-Reply-To: <p06200701bfb0499d961a@10.0.1.201>
References: <20051127112035.0C054825689@mail.runrev.com>
	<a750999374ffda5c50ec0e0b1def551a@siphonophore.com>
	<p06200700bfaff4e5eb6e@10.0.1.2> <438A4E5E.7000001@tweedly.net>
	<p06200701bfb0499d961a@10.0.1.201>
Message-ID: <f73a98160511282125m6035be87ne35329a94ea6bcc7@mail.gmail.com>

Jeffery Reynolds wrote:

one thing that has stemmed the tide for me is to start putting your
> email address on all your web posts as a java encoded text (there are
> several schemes out there to do this) instead of straight html. while
> this wont get rid of things immediately, it has slowed the tide a lot
> for me and many clients over the last couple of years since i started
> doing it....
> im sure there are some spammers out there that are now using
> bots to run the java scripts to see if they get any email addresses
> back, but thats not as easy.
>

You may wish to go one step further by reformatting every reference to you,
either on your webpage or in emails, into a graphic. At the most basic level
just take a screen shot of your own email text signature and crop it into a
small gif or jpg. On a website you will probably want the hyperlinks to your
email address and website to work so this will involve cropping each text
hyperlink into a graphic and then using code rather than plain html to make
the link as suggested above.

I think it will be a while before bots will be running OCR on gifs and jpgs
to see if they can extract an email address:-)

Of course, in some situations it means that you can't leave your signature,
which is why you won't see mine here.


From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 00:30:12 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:30:12 +1000
Subject: Field Corruption?
In-Reply-To: <99DFA035-AE7C-4A56-BD30-4DFFEECBD0F0@hindu.org>
References: <99DFA035-AE7C-4A56-BD30-4DFFEECBD0F0@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511282130m18db98e4gdfae0196876c5362@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/29/05, Sivakatirswami <katir at hindu.org> wrote:
> I have suddenly received from a user of one of my stack that has been
> working fine for several years, are report that "my changes are not
> being saved to the disk file!"
>
> I had them email me the stack and have discovered this rather
> incredible, obscure problem:
>
> What you see in the field is not what you get if:
>
> a) you put that field into a variable and write the variable to disk
> b) copy the text and paste into BBEdit
> c) simply put the fld into a url (to save to disk)
>
> Now, I have isolated the problem to one long paragraph... tha simply
> does not change... not matter what edits you make on screen and in
> the field... even if you save the stack.. quit revolution, open
> again.. .your edits will appea there on screen, but not in any kind
> of output.

Is it possible that one or more lines in the field has exceeded 64K characters?
Weird things happen when this occurs.

Apart from that, my only suggestion would be to confirm that you don't
have two fields witht he smae name, so your user might be editing one,
but exporting another.

Sarah


From katir at hindu.org  Tue Nov 29 00:44:12 2005
From: katir at hindu.org (Sivakatirswami)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:44:12 -1000
Subject: Field Corruption?
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511282130m18db98e4gdfae0196876c5362@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99DFA035-AE7C-4A56-BD30-4DFFEECBD0F0@hindu.org>
	<f99b52860511282130m18db98e4gdfae0196876c5362@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C74A0089-37DB-47EA-AC0D-70A2D2EB7202@hindu.org>

mmm the offending paragraph is a line that is onlyl 9842 characters  
long....

and no, there are no two field with the same name... I checked that  
one...

On Nov 28, 2005, at 7:30 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> On 11/29/05, Sivakatirswami <katir at hindu.org> wrote:
>
>> I have suddenly received from a user of one of my stack that has been
>> working fine for several years, are report that "my changes are not
>> being saved to the disk file!"
>>
>> I had them email me the stack and have discovered this rather
>> incredible, obscure problem:
>>
>> What you see in the field is not what you get if:
>>
>> a) you put that field into a variable and write the variable to disk
>> b) copy the text and paste into BBEdit
>> c) simply put the fld into a url (to save to disk)
>>
>> Now, I have isolated the problem to one long paragraph... tha simply
>> does not change... not matter what edits you make on screen and in
>> the field... even if you save the stack.. quit revolution, open
>> again.. .your edits will appea there on screen, but not in any kind
>> of output.
>>
>
> Is it possible that one or more lines in the field has exceeded 64K  
> characters?
> Weird things happen when this occurs.
>
> Apart from that, my only suggestion would be to confirm that you don't
> have two fields witht he smae name, so your user might be editing one,
> but exporting another.
>
> Sarah
> _______________________________________________


From janschenkel at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 29 01:01:27 2005
From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:01:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: There was an error connecting to the database
In-Reply-To: <BFAE72F7.1282B%bill@bluewatermaritime.com>
Message-ID: <20051129060127.56865.qmail@web60524.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Bill <bill at bluewatermaritime.com> wrote:
> Does anyone know how to trouble shoot "there was an
> error connecting to the
> database"? I must have an automatic database
> connection somewhere that I
> don't use which is set-up wrong. Is there some kind
> of debugger message that
> I can set to turn on before everything else that
> would then put in the
> message box where this database connection is that
> it is trying?
> 

Hi Bill,

If you're on MacOSX, you can open the Console
application and see if that turns up any information ;
other than that, go to the Database Query Builder, go
through your queries one at a time, clicking the
connect button to check if that's the one failing.

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution
<http://www.quartam.com>

=====
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La Rochefoucauld)


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Music Unlimited 
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. 
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/


From ale870 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 01:59:42 2005
From: ale870 at gmail.com (Alessandro Manotti)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 07:59:42 +0100
Subject: DLL usage in RunRev
In-Reply-To: <11313376624.20051128143241@ahsoftware.net>
References: <200511282127.50387.rishi@puredata.com.au>
	<BFB0669F.30901%kray@sonsothunder.com>
	<f54296680511280801l5c7f361fk31228bed22c5df3c@mail.gmail.com>
	<661443695.20051128111349@ahsoftware.net>
	<f54296680511281315v16aa33cfh80bcd9d816c58d78@mail.gmail.com>
	<11313376624.20051128143241@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <f54296680511282259w7162c06ei1ff2480b80ccc72b@mail.gmail.com>

I didn't see the RunRev sdk, but I think you agree. I think SDK was
created to be used with C or C++. Neither Delphi nor Visual Basic,
etc...





On 11/28/05, Mark Wieder <mwieder at ahsoftware.net> wrote:
> Alessandro-
>
> Monday, November 28, 2005, 1:15:45 PM, you wrote:
>
> > Sorry Mark, but in my company I already use Delphi to create DLLs
> > (using "cdecl" option for parameters passing)   ;-)
>
> Yes, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you couldn't create DLLs, just
> that you probably can't create *runrev-compatible* DLLs.
>
> --
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>


From mcdomi at free.fr  Tue Nov 29 02:23:27 2005
From: mcdomi at free.fr (Dom)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:23:27 +0100
Subject: AW: Following this List
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCMEKLDNAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <1h6s47b.1tmxnb11lwehqqM%mcdomi@free.fr>

Thomas Fischer <fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de> wrote:

> I must say I am also somewhat overwhelmed with the flood of messages (114
> today, over 2000 in the last two months)

sure, it is a very active list :-)

I'm using a good tool to read this list (IMHO ;-))
its name is MacSOUP (Mac only, sorry)

it is NOT a mail agent, it is a news reader!
with mail capabilities, though...

it is very easy to read threads with it (except when someone starts a
new discussion witout changing the title ;-))

above the message text, one can see a graphical scheme of the running
thread, with all its branches (sort of Christmas tree ;-))

brief, too long to explain all the features of MacSOUP, try it!

as of today, I have a base of  17000+ messages, the oldest from 10
months :-)
not yet read all these!!! (12000 not read...)

PS: the author is German :-)

-- 
Revolutionario



From monsieurx at monsieurx.com  Tue Nov 29 02:26:35 2005
From: monsieurx at monsieurx.com (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:26:35 +0100 (GMT-1)
Subject: No backgroundcolor
In-Reply-To: <438B8AF9.5070709@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <F320CC4D-3792-439F-A311-0CEFA22328E9@richard-hillen.de>
	<438B703F.4060209@hyperactivesw.com>
	<9ED6B7BE-EC5C-4538-B5BE-E09D8EDC25BE@danshafer.com>
	<438B8AF9.5070709@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <39836.193.29.77.101.1133249195.squirrel@193.29.77.101>

Dan, Jacque

The border color changes the fields lines color and the border color
except when you set the 3D border (as Jacque noticed)... Then border
colors dont change as expected in WinXP at least...

It's actually lots worse than it seems because 2 pixel borders do look
colored in W2K, but the same borders on XP do NOT look good.

Over a bg color you dont see the border or the border bleeds through a 1
pixel frame which is inside teh field's border (xp design). So lots is not
porting smoothly from W2K to XP. OSX ports are just as chaotic...

cheers
Xavier

J. Landman Gay said:
> Dan Shafer wrote:
>  > Jacque...
>  >
>  > Um, actually, foregroundcolor controls both text and border color.
>  > bordercolor only works on buttons and scrollbars according to the docs.
>
> Before I responded I did a quick test and foregroundcolor didn't change
> the edges. Bordercolor did. But I had to turn off the threeD property to
> see it -- with threeD turned on, the border was always gray no matter
> what. In any case, the forecolor didn't change the border color of the
> field.
>
> This is all on OS X. Maybe there is a difference on other operating
> systems?
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

-- 
http://monsieurx.com/taoo



From sunshine at public.kherson.ua  Tue Nov 29 03:25:19 2005
From: sunshine at public.kherson.ua (Ruslan Zasukhin)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:25:19 +0200
Subject: V4REV 1.11 Docs
In-Reply-To: <EC5F7CA4-FEFC-4D32-86CF-16229B537BEA@hkmug.org.hk>
Message-ID: <BFB1DD0F.43F7A%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>

On 11/29/05 9:51 AM, "Wayne McKenzie" <Wayne_McKenzie at hkmug.org.hk> wrote:

Hi Wayne, 

I CC answer to Revolution list because this question can get many new
Revolution users. 

> Hi,
> 
> I've recently renewed my Rev license and picked up my Keys for
> Valentina 1.11 but can't seem to find the 1.11 docs. The only docs I
> found on your website were for Version 2 and I get the feeling that
> there is enough difference between 1.11 and 2 (binary links) that I'd
> be confusing myself if I didn't just stick with the docs that dealt
> only with 1.11.

> I'd appreciate either a link to where I can access the 1.11 docs or
> if you could email them to me.

Here it is:

        http://paradigmasoft.com/en/products/documentation1

Note, you can subscribe to the Valentina lists to get help there.


-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]




From mail at richard-hillen.de  Tue Nov 29 03:32:45 2005
From: mail at richard-hillen.de (mail at richard-hillen.de)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 09:32:45 +0100 (CET)
Subject: AW: use-revolution Digest, Vol 26, Issue 116
Message-ID: <20051129083245.32A2E90005@www.strato-webmail.de>

Hello Ken and all other responders,

thank you for your quick and helpfull answers.

Richard.

 Message: 17
> Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:20:52 -0600
> From: Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Subject: Re: No backgroundcolor
> To: Use Revolution List <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <BFB0C2C4.3096D%kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"
> 
> On 11/28/05 1:50 PM, "R. Hillen" <mail at richard-hillen.de> wrote:
> 
> > Hello list,
> > 
> > I wanted to make a green rect with a red edge, so I wrote
> > 
> >        create invisible graphic
> >        set the style of it to rectangle
> >        set the rect of it to 20,20,50,50
> >        set the foregroundcolor of it to 255,0,0 --RGB_Color
> >        set the backgroundcolor of it to 0,255,0 --RGB_Color
> >        set the linesize of it to 2
> >        show it
> > 
> > I got a white rect with a red edge. Why?
> 
> Because the graphic's "opaque" property was false. Set it to true and
you'll
> see the green fill.
> 
> 
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Tue Nov 29 06:12:00 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:12:00 +0000
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <438B53C0.7060700@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <AC4C06CA-601A-11DA-9570-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
	<a0521060bbfb0c630cff6@[192.168.0.101]>
	<438B53C0.7060700@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bfb1e73577ca@[192.168.0.101]>

>David Burgun wrote:
>
>>>set itemDelimiter to :/"
>>>delete item -1 of myStackFIlePath
>
>ItemDelimiters are limited to a single character. I haven't a clue 
>why this should work in the IDE, but it shouldn't. Also, you have 
>omitted "the" which in this case isn't strictly necessary but will 
>improve engine performance, and  which may fail to work in future 
>versions if it is omitted.

As I said, this was just a typeo, the real script has the following:

set the itemDelimiter to "/"

This compiles and runs correctly (as expected) under the IDE.

All the Best
Dave



From jason at polydiam.com  Tue Nov 29 06:11:22 2005
From: jason at polydiam.com (Jason - Polydiam Industries Limited)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:11:22 -0000
Subject: How to you make a stack unmovable
Message-ID: <000001c5f4d5$a195d610$0200a8c0@Jason>

Thanks for all of your help on my previous question!

 

I want to make a stack (like a help stack) which apart of the main stack

 

I don't want the user to be able to move this stack, but I still want to
have a close button on the top like a normal window.

 

How is this possible?

 

Thanks for all your help :-)

 

Jason 

 



From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk  Tue Nov 29 06:16:51 2005
From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:16:51 +0000
Subject: Load URL returns error 10049
In-Reply-To: <20051129042605.3C7E3824E67@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051129042605.3C7E3824E67@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <5B66AC90-E7D0-4F50-A8D7-7E93C967379E@lacscentre.co.uk>

Hi Dave

No answers I'm afraid. Just more questions.

On 29 Nov 2005, at 05:02, Dave Beck wrote:

>  I'm afraid they are quite puzzling to me and seem to
> point towards a bug in the Rev internet lib or the engine itself,  
> but maybe
> somebody with more experience could chime in on that.

That can't be ruled out. But as it works for the other users, and  
this is the first report of this error, I'd still look at the user's  
setup as the probable cause. Of course, the fact that the Web Browser  
works suggests something wrong with Rev, but it may be just that they  
are doing things differently.

>
> Again, to reiterate, the problem is that the load URL command fails  
> for this
> user when trying to load a web page and the URLStatus function returns
> "error". Then the libURLErrorData function returns "Error 10049". This
> problem is isolated to this user and the stand alone has been  
> distributed
> and works as expected for over 50 others, all accessing the same  
> hard coded
> URL.

10049 looks like a Windows socket error. From looking around the net,  
it seems to be associated with setting up servers and not client  
apps. (The problem is a failure to bind to an address on the local  
machine.) However, I can force this error by connecting to a url like  
this: "http://255.255.255.255/something.html" But the error string  
returned by libUrlErrorData is "error Error 10049 on socket".

Sorry to harp on about this, but are you sure the error string is  
"Error 10049". You're not filtering the message in any way? (e.g.  
word 2 to 3 of libUrlErrorData(tUrl)). The reason I'm asking is that  
I can't find anywhere in libUrl that would set the data returned by  
libUrlErrorData in this way. How are you getting the message? In an  
answer dialog? Is there any chance that it's not a Rev window popping  
up but a system or other utility window? What version of libUrl are  
you using (libUrlVersion()). Also, what version of Rev, and what  
version of Windows is the client using.

>
>
> I had the customer check to see if the same URL loaded in her browser
> without problems, and the answer was yes. I then built a special  
> stand along
> for this customer that accesses the website directly through the IP  
> instead
> of using the DNS lookup, but the same error was still generated.

When you used the IP, did you set it manually or use Rev's  
hostNameToAddress function? If the latter, it might point to a DNS  
issue. A way to check would be to see the result from  
hostNameToAddress(<servername>) on the user's machine. For example,  
if the url you are connecting to is "http://www.myserver.com/ 
something.html", the see what hostNameToAddress("www.myserver.com")  
returns. Is it a valid IP address?


> I then
> built another standalone that attempts to access google through the  
> load
> command as a sanity check, and what happened was that the load  
> failed again
> and this different error was returned by libURLErrorData:
>
> Error loading on socket

Again I'm puzzled by the message. I'd expect to see  
"error" (lowercase) before the capitalized "Error". Also, I've never  
come across this specific message before.


> Erin, I had her give me all her configuration info. There are no proxy
> server settings, and in the Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) settings she  
> has
> "Obtain an IP address automatically" and "Obtain DNS server address
> automatically" turned on.


Just to reconfirm the proxy settings. In the Internet Options Control  
Panel, under the Connections tab, click the LAN Settings button. In  
the Automatic Configuration section at the top of the window, are any  
check boxes hilited. If so, this could be a problem.

In an earlier mail, you said...
> (She already told me that she is not on an internal network or  
> behind a
> firewall.) Or in light of the new info is that a moot point?

This might point to some malware problem - trojan/spyware/whatever.  
Are you able to suggest (tactfully) that she run some kind of anti- 
spyware and anti-virus utilities.

The only other suggestion would be to use libUrlSetLogField to log  
the transaction with the server. This may not reveal much if the  
problem is happening when opening the socket. But it's worth doing,  
even if just to confirm where the problem is occurring.

Cheers
Dave


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Nov 29 06:32:54 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 03:32:54 -0800
Subject: How to you make a stack unmovable
In-Reply-To: <000001c5f4d5$a195d610$0200a8c0@Jason>
References: <000001c5f4d5$a195d610$0200a8c0@Jason>
Message-ID: <438C3C66.8060805@fourthworld.com>

Jason - Polydiam Industries Limited wrote:
> I want to make a stack (like a help stack) which apart of the main stack
> 
> I don't want the user to be able to move this stack, but I still want to
> have a close button on the top like a normal window.

Why not give them the freedom to move the window that they're accustomed to?

Removing that will likely strike users as odd, but if you must you can 
set the decorations of the stack to "none" and make your own closebox 
button.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Tue Nov 29 06:58:38 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:58:38 +0000
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@[192.168.0.101]>
	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@[192.168.0.101]>

>
>This is with Rev 2.6.1 on OS X 10.4.3 (but I'm pretty sure it also 
>worked this way in earlier versions).
>
>Can you show us the script that is producing the strange result?

I am running:

RunRev 2.6.1 Build 152
MacOS X Tiger 10.4.3

On G5 Dual.

Dave, I have sent you the Script via Email privately, thanks a lot 
for taking the time to look at this.

All the Best
Dave



From Stgoldberg at aol.com  Tue Nov 29 07:25:15 2005
From: Stgoldberg at aol.com (Stgoldberg at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 07:25:15 EST
Subject: Problem with the correct cursor showing up
Message-ID: <d.51738e24.30bda2ab@aol.com>

I tried using   cursor ID 28 instead of "hand" but the problem persists.   
The "watch" cursor still shows up instead of "hand" in the standalone.   Has 
anyone else experienced this? I'm using Mac OS 10.3.9 and revolution 2.6.1.   
Temporarily I'm trying to work around the problem by hiliting the border of the 
object when the cursor is over it, rather than changing the cursor.   However, 
this would seem to be a problem that needs to be addressed. I'm open to any 
other suggestions.   Thanks.
Steve Goldberg

In a message dated 11/28/05 3:44:49 PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes:


> > Hope someone can help with the following problem.?? I want to program a
> > button so that the cursor changes to "hand" on MouseEnter and changes back 
> to
> > "Arrow" on mouseLeave.?? I inserted the following script (using Macintosh 
> OS X
> > Panther):
> >
> > on MouseEnter
> >?? set the cursor to hand
> >?? set the lockcursor to true
> > end MouseEnter
> >
> > on mouseLeave
> >?? set the cursor to arrow
> > end mouseLeave
> >
> > While this works in the unbuilt program, once it is built the cursor show 
> up
> > as "Watch" rather than "Hand"?? on both Macintosh and?? Windows.?? Anyone 
> have
> > a suggestion??? Thanks.
> 
> RR has changed the cursor IDs a couple of times and I've lost track of
> what's what. In the most current version, the cursor ID for "hand" is
> 28. What happens if instead of using the constant "hand" you use the
> actual ID of 28? That is, "set the cursor to 28".
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay? ? ? ?? |? ?? jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software? ? ? ? ?? |? ?? http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 



From monsieurx at monsieurx.com  Tue Nov 29 07:29:13 2005
From: monsieurx at monsieurx.com (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 13:29:13 +0100 (GMT-1)
Subject: How to you make a stack unmovable
In-Reply-To: <000001c5f4d5$a195d610$0200a8c0@Jason>
References: <000001c5f4d5$a195d610$0200a8c0@Jason>
Message-ID: <23159.193.29.77.101.1133267353.squirrel@193.29.77.101>

Hi Jason

Edit the script of your stack and put this into it:

you dont need to mess wiht decorations actually...

local myloc
on openstack
  put the loc of me into myloc
end openstack

on movestack
  if the loc of me is not myloc
  then set the loc of me to myloc
end movestack

-- Unfortunatelly, leaving the mousestack handler empty doesn't prevent
moving as you might expect (as is the case with other handlers - EG
ResizeStack)...

But this work.

cheers
Xavier

Jason - Polydiam Industries Limited said:
> Thanks for all of your help on my previous question!
>
>
>
> I want to make a stack (like a help stack) which apart of the main stack
>
>
>
> I don't want the user to be able to move this stack, but I still want to
> have a close button on the top like a normal window.
>

> How is this possible?
>

> Thanks for all your help :-)

>
> Jason

-- 
http://monsieurx.com/taoo



From gilbert at isphlg.rimed.cu  Tue Nov 29 08:34:20 2005
From: gilbert at isphlg.rimed.cu (Gilberto Cuba)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:34:20 -0500
Subject: Messages in setprop...
Message-ID: <008601c5f4e9$9ff29640$1c037b98@p42600>



Hi,

I'm working in a "setprop" of the "property set", that is to say, group of property, and detect that I modified or set a value of a property of the same group or "property set", the message dont triggered. How I can do this message occur?

Example: 

setprop MyPropSet[propName] newValue

switch propName
case "Prop1"
  -- (1)
  set the MyPropSet["Prop3"] of me to value   
  break
case "Prop2"
  ...
  -- do something...
  ...
  break
case "Prop3"
  ...
  ...do something...  (2)
  ...
  break
end switch

end setprop

When i set a value to a property "Prop1", it come in to (1), but when the next line is executing, it dont pass for (2).
I hope you might understand.

Best regards,

Gilberto Cuba

PD: I request my excuses for my english. I'm speaking spanish.  :DDD

From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Tue Nov 29 08:13:22 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 13:13:22 +0000
Subject: About bugs (was This is what REALLY SUCKS about RunRev! - was
 Menubar Help)
In-Reply-To: <4386A97F.5060207@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <a05210606bfaba4a06ce5@[192.168.0.101]>
	<p06230905bfaba8e8ef91@[192.168.1.103]>
	<a05210600bfabcbbbf557@[192.168.0.101]>
	<75CDC256-2EAA-4509-99CB-BC4459145FC4@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<a05210602bfac01116d67@[192.168.0.101]>
	<4386A97F.5060207@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <a05210602bfb1fd279faf@[192.168.0.101]>

>On 11/24/05 5:51 PM, David Burgun wrote:
>>Hi Eric,
>>
>>I always do try to reproduce the problem etc. In this case though 
>>it really is a bug, if not in the menu handling, then else where in 
>>RunRev.
>>
>>There was a Group in the Place Groups Sub-Menu that was not listed 
>>in any stack/card in the apps browser. When selected it placed a 
>>BLOB in the stack window that could not be selected, however, when 
>>selected from the apps browser window, it could be deleted. Once 
>>this was done it worked.
>>
>>There was no code that could cause this type of problem, just the 
>>scripts generated by Auto-Script, e.g. a menuPick and empty case 
>>statement, and besides that, the problem was that the menu did not 
>>get moved into the Application menu. No code was needed for this to 
>>occur.
>
>You know, of course, that it is perfectly legal to have a group that 
>is not placed on any card, right? You can have any number of groups 
>that behave that way. This is not a bug. As a matter of fact, 
>imported HyperCard stacks always have at least one or more unplaced 
>groups that contain various HyperCard resources. I see these all the 
>time.
>
>One way to accidentally create an unplaced group is to group an 
>object and then delete the card it is on. Deleting the card does not 
>delete the groups that are on it, and you now have unplaced groups.

Ok, thanks for the info, in this case, the stack only had 1 card and 
it was present in the stack/App Browser


>
>You don't say what the "blob" was. The last "blob" I saw in one of 
>my stacks was an imported image that was not in a Rev-friendly 
>format. Re-saving the image as a regular .jpg and re-importing it 
>fixed the "blob".

The BLOB, (I've had this before, but it didn't cause a problem (I 
think!)), was a dimmed rectangle that appeared in the middle of the 
stack when placed, it has some garbage text in it, I couldn't select 
it by clicking on it in the stack window, but could select it in the 
App Browser and Use the Clear command to Delete it.

Once I did this, the menu started working correctly.

>If the menu did not appear as the application menu, then there was 
>something wrong with the structure of the menu group. Others have 
>addressed this and suggested things to look for. It doesn't sound 
>like your "blob" was supposed to be the menu group, as you would 
>have named it more sensibly.

That is correct. The Menu Group was present in the Stack and looked 
fine when inspected. However, the Group would not install in the menu 
bar until the "garbage" group was placed and deleted and the stack 
saved.

>So, it sounds like there were two problems: the first was an 
>unrelated, unplaced group, and the second was a (different) menu 
>group that was structurally unsound. Or at least, that's as much as 
>I can assemble from your description, not having seen the stack.

Sounds about right. The thing was that before I did this, I had a 
menu group setup and per the documentation, but the Prefs menu item 
would NOT get moved into the Applications menu, however all the other 
menus worked fine, and you could select "Preferences" in the edit 
menu and it would work ok, the "Preferences" in the apps menu was 
present, but disabled. Then (as a suggestion from this list), I 
created a new one, copied+pasted the scripts from the old one, 
deleted the old one and renamed the new one to the same name as the 
old one, e.g. I had MainMenu showing in card 1 in the app browser, 
then I made a TempMenu, then deleted MainMenu then renamed TempMenu 
to MainMenu.

When I ran this, the Menu Bar stop appearing and the menu was along 
the top of the stack, then I noticed, placed and deleted the garbage 
group and it worked.

Hope this clarifies what happened.

All the Best
Dave


























the


From kkaufman at snet.net  Tue Nov 29 08:16:14 2005
From: kkaufman at snet.net (Kurt Kaufman)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:16:14 -0500
Subject: AW: Following this List
Message-ID: <11D60BC8-6709-4A14-86D4-5EA4A63C680B@snet.net>

Thomas,
Other options exist; here are two URLs which might interest you:
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/

http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:lists.runrev.com

HTH,
Kurt


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Nov 29 08:22:48 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 05:22:48 -0800
Subject: Messages in setprop...
In-Reply-To: <008601c5f4e9$9ff29640$1c037b98@p42600>
References: <008601c5f4e9$9ff29640$1c037b98@p42600>
Message-ID: <438C5628.1070204@fourthworld.com>

Gilberto Cuba wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm working in a "setprop" of the "property set", that is to say, group of property, and detect that I modified or set a value of a property of the same group or "property set", the message dont triggered. How I can do this message occur?
> 
> Example: 
> 
> setprop MyPropSet[propName] newValue
> 
> switch propName
> case "Prop1"
>   -- (1)
>   set the MyPropSet["Prop3"] of me to value   
>   break
> case "Prop2"
>   ...
>   -- do something...
>   ...
>   break
> case "Prop3"
>   ...
>   ...do something...  (2)
>   ...
>   break
> end switch
> 
> end setprop
> 
> When i set a value to a property "Prop1", it come in to (1), but when the next line is executing, it dont pass for (2).
> I hope you might understand.

setProp messages aren't sent when changing the value of the property 
being handled, to avoid recursion issues.  In your example, any setting 
of MyPropSet from another handler will trigger your setProp, but any 
settings of MyPropSet from within the setProp handler itself won't send 
an additional message.

What are you looking to do?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From erin.smale at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 09:24:17 2005
From: erin.smale at gmail.com (Erin Smale)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 09:24:17 -0500
Subject: Load URL returns error 10049
In-Reply-To: <5B66AC90-E7D0-4F50-A8D7-7E93C967379E@lacscentre.co.uk>
References: <20051129042605.3C7E3824E67@mail.runrev.com>
	<5B66AC90-E7D0-4F50-A8D7-7E93C967379E@lacscentre.co.uk>
Message-ID: <68ca1f950511290624u3ed462et838ea513983b5b13@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Dave,

So to make it clear:

* Customer can use the IP or URL in her browser with no error
* Customer has no Internet access problems using her browser
* Customer is not on a network, is not behind a firewall, and uses no
proxies
* Customer uses DHCP to obtain her TCP/IP settings
* Any IP or URL accessed via the Rev app generates an error
* The same Rev app works fine for 50 other folks

I'm with Dave that there's definitely something wonky about this customer's
setup. His suggestions are good. Some other things to check:

* I'd like to see her hosts file, just to rule out any misbehaviour there.
It's probably not a factor, since she can use her browser without a problem,
but I'd like to rule it out.

* How is she connecting to the Internet? If she's using DHCP, I suspect
she's getting an address from her ISP's pool. However, if she had a
high-speed connection (e.g. DSL), she could be getting her IP from a local
router, and that piece of hardware could be a factor.

Logging the results from libURL would be helpful so we can see exactly
what's being passed.

Cheers,
-Erin


From service at gaich.de  Tue Nov 29 09:34:15 2005
From: service at gaich.de (gaich software service)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:34:15 +0100
Subject: to sort system date in a list, and special effect with sliders (XP)
Message-ID: <438C66E7.2060905@gaich.de>

Hello all of this very helpful list,

I am a consultant and supporter of a well known ERP-Software in germany.
Since 6 months I am programming tools for that ERP-System and I do it 
with revolution.
I think this was the best idea I've ever had.
My customers are very happy to get the tools they need in a very short 
time and for a low price.

Until now I wasn't an active user of this list, because my english isn't 
very good, as you see.

I have a question about date sort in a list. Because my customers are 
german, they want to see the german date format (system date).
Is there a way to sort a list by an item that contains a system date?

I wrote a little function for this problem:

function sortContainerBySystemDate pContainer, pItemToSort, pSortOrder
    local 
nOL                                                                               

    local nOI
    local x
   
    
    if (pContainer is empty) or (pItemToSort is not a number) or 
(pItemToSort < 1) then
        put empty into sortedContainer
        return sortedContainer
        exit sortContainerBySystemDate
    end if
    
    set the itemDel to tab
    put the number of lines of pContainer into nOL
    put the number of items of line 1 of pContainer into nOI
    
    if nOL < 2  or nOI < pItemToSort then
        put  pContainer into sortedContainer
        return sortedContainer
        exit sortContainerBySystemDate
    end if
    
    repeat for each line x in pContainer
        convert item pItemToSort of x from system date to seconds
    end repeat
    
    if pSortOrder = 1 then
        sort lines of pContainer descending numeric by item pItemToSort 
of each
    else
        sort lines of pContainer ascending numeric by item pItemToSort 
of each
    end if
    
    repeat for each line x in pContainer
        convert item pItemToSort of x from seconds to system date
    end repeat
    
    put pContainer into sortedContainer
    
    return sortedContainer
end sortContainerBySystemDate


It works for me. But may be there is a better and shorter way to do that!?


Another Problem:

Because my costumers are working on windows machines, they have very 
different Versions (98,2000,XP).
I'm programming on a windows XP with Classic Style for Windows and gadgets.
I did a tool that contains sliders and it works fine.
I installed it on a customers machine with XP and XP Style. I was scared 
-- the knop of the slider was not there and there was no way to do 
anything with the slider.
When I turned the Style to Classic on that machine, the knob was there 
again. But the employee wants to have the XP Style, hmmm.

Is this a well known effect and is there a possible solution?

Puuhhh, it takes longer time to write this little english text then to 
programm a little tool with Revolution :-)

Best,
G?nter
------------------------------------------------------------------------

*gaich software service    
G?nter Gaich
*
*fon: +49 (0) 6452-91101-55
fax: +49 (0) 6452-91101-57
mobil: +49 (0) 172 970 26 51
service at gaich.de*

 



From mark at maseurope.net  Tue Nov 29 09:52:50 2005
From: mark at maseurope.net (Mark Smith)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 14:52:50 +0000
Subject: to sort system date in a list,
	and special effect with sliders (XP)
In-Reply-To: <438C66E7.2060905@gaich.de>
References: <438C66E7.2060905@gaich.de>
Message-ID: <1DF247E6-16CB-482F-B198-C53539B61E27@maseurope.net>

Gunter, I usually store dates in yyyymmdd format, and I have  
functions to convert back and forth from system date.
I'm assuming that the german system date is the same as the uk : dd/ 
mm/yy

You can sort a list by the result of a  function.

My function for converting a dd/mm/yy date to yyyymmdd is :

function SSDateToDD aDate
   if "/" is not in aDate then return aDate
   set the itemDelimiter to "/"
   put item 1 of aDate into dd
   put item 2 of aDate into mm
   put item 3 of aDate into yy
   if length(dd) < 2 then put "0" before dd
   if length(mm) < 2 then put "0" before mm
   if length(yy) < 4 then
     put char -2 to -1 of yy into yy
     if yy > 50 then
       put "19" before yy
     else
       put "20" before yy
     end if
   end if
   return yy & mm & dd
end SSDateToDD

so you can sort a list like so:

sort lines of myList numeric by SSDateToDD(item 1 of each) --  
assuming the date is the first item, of course

Hope this helps,

Mark

ps. your English is much better than my German, so apologies...


On 29 Nov 2005, at 14:34, gaich software service wrote:

> Hello all of this very helpful list,
>
> I am a consultant and supporter of a well known ERP-Software in  
> germany.
> Since 6 months I am programming tools for that ERP-System and I do  
> it with revolution.
> I think this was the best idea I've ever had.
> My customers are very happy to get the tools they need in a very  
> short time and for a low price.
>
> Until now I wasn't an active user of this list, because my english  
> isn't very good, as you see.
>
> I have a question about date sort in a list. Because my customers  
> are german, they want to see the german date format (system date).
> Is there a way to sort a list by an item that contains a system date?
>
> I wrote a little function for this problem:
>
> function sortContainerBySystemDate pContainer, pItemToSort, pSortOrder
>    local nOL
>    local nOI
>    local x
>         if (pContainer is empty) or (pItemToSort is not a number)  
> or (pItemToSort < 1) then
>        put empty into sortedContainer
>        return sortedContainer
>        exit sortContainerBySystemDate
>    end if
>       set the itemDel to tab
>    put the number of lines of pContainer into nOL
>    put the number of items of line 1 of pContainer into nOI
>       if nOL < 2  or nOI < pItemToSort then
>        put  pContainer into sortedContainer
>        return sortedContainer
>        exit sortContainerBySystemDate
>    end if
>       repeat for each line x in pContainer
>        convert item pItemToSort of x from system date to seconds
>    end repeat
>       if pSortOrder = 1 then
>        sort lines of pContainer descending numeric by item  
> pItemToSort of each
>    else
>        sort lines of pContainer ascending numeric by item  
> pItemToSort of each
>    end if
>       repeat for each line x in pContainer
>        convert item pItemToSort of x from seconds to system date
>    end repeat
>       put pContainer into sortedContainer
>       return sortedContainer
> end sortContainerBySystemDate
>
>
> It works for me. But may be there is a better and shorter way to do  
> that!?
>
>
> Another Problem:
>
> Because my costumers are working on windows machines, they have  
> very different Versions (98,2000,XP).
> I'm programming on a windows XP with Classic Style for Windows and  
> gadgets.
> I did a tool that contains sliders and it works fine.
> I installed it on a customers machine with XP and XP Style. I was  
> scared -- the knop of the slider was not there and there was no way  
> to do anything with the slider.
> When I turned the Style to Classic on that machine, the knob was  
> there again. But the employee wants to have the XP Style, hmmm.
>
> Is this a well known effect and is there a possible solution?
>
> Puuhhh, it takes longer time to write this little english text then  
> to programm a little tool with Revolution :-)
>
> Best,
> G?nter
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> --
>
> *gaich software service    G?nter Gaich
> *
> *fon: +49 (0) 6452-91101-55
> fax: +49 (0) 6452-91101-57
> mobil: +49 (0) 172 970 26 51
> service at gaich.de*
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From revolution at derbrill.de  Tue Nov 29 09:53:04 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:53:04 +0100
Subject: to sort system date in a list,
	and special effect with sliders (XP) [Ge] [En]
In-Reply-To: <20051129074829.4E37A825237@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <D83EFBAB-60E7-11DA-8F17-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Hallo G?nther!

Ich konzentriere mich vorerst auf den Slider: das ist ein Bug. Falls es 
wichtig f?r Dich ist solltest Du in Bugzilla Deine Stimme abgeben:

http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=3024

I just concentrate on the Slider issue. It is a bug. If it is important 
for you please vote for it at Bugzilla

All the best / Lieben Gru?,

Malte

-- 
ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes
http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine
http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum 


From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Nov 29 09:53:18 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:53:18 +0100
Subject: to sort system date in a list,
	and special effect with sliders (XP)
In-Reply-To: <438C66E7.2060905@gaich.de>
References: <438C66E7.2060905@gaich.de>
Message-ID: <10189172-775A-4581-8D59-F970EF211221@major-k.de>

Tach G?nter :-)

> Hello all of this very helpful list,
>
> I am a consultant and supporter of a well known ERP-Software in  
> germany.
> Since 6 months I am programming tools for that ERP-System and I do  
> it with revolution.

what is ERP?

> I think this was the best idea I've ever had.
> My customers are very happy to get the tools they need in a very  
> short time and for a low price.
> Until now I wasn't an active user of this list, because my english  
> isn't very good, as you see.

In that case, welcome to the list :-)

> I have a question about date sort in a list. Because my customers  
> are german, they want to see the german date format (system date).  
> Is there a way to sort a list by an item that contains a system date?
>
> I wrote a little function for this problem:
>
> function sortContainerBySystemDate pContainer, pItemToSort, pSortOrder
>    local nOL
>    local nOI
>    local x
>         if (pContainer is empty) or (pItemToSort is not a number)  
> or (pItemToSort < 1) then
>        put empty into sortedContainer
>        return sortedContainer
>        exit sortContainerBySystemDate
>    end if
>       set the itemDel to tab
>    put the number of lines of pContainer into nOL
>    put the number of items of line 1 of pContainer into nOI
>       if nOL < 2  or nOI < pItemToSort then
>        put  pContainer into sortedContainer
>        return sortedContainer
>        exit sortContainerBySystemDate
>    end if
>       repeat for each line x in pContainer
>        convert item pItemToSort of x from system date to seconds
>    end repeat
>       if pSortOrder = 1 then
>        sort lines of pContainer descending numeric by item  
> pItemToSort of each
>    else
>        sort lines of pContainer ascending numeric by item  
> pItemToSort of each
>    end if
>       repeat for each line x in pContainer
>        convert item pItemToSort of x from seconds to system date
>    end repeat
>       put pContainer into sortedContainer
>       return sortedContainer
> end sortContainerBySystemDate
>
>
> It works for me. But may be there is a better and shorter way to do  
> that!?

What about, supposed the german date (like 29.11.2005) is the third  
item in the field:

...
   set the usesystemdate to true
   ##!!! Check the docs!
   sort lines of fld xyz datetime by item 3 of each
...

Might be a BIT shorter ;-)

> Another Problem:
>
> Because my costumers are working on windows machines, they have  
> very different Versions (98,2000,XP).
> I'm programming on a windows XP with Classic Style for Windows and  
> gadgets.
> I did a tool that contains sliders and it works fine.
> I installed it on a customers machine with XP and XP Style. I was  
> scared -- the knop of the slider was not there and there was no way  
> to do anything with the slider.
> When I turned the Style to Classic on that machine, the knob was  
> there again. But the employee wants to have the XP Style, hmmm.
>
> Is this a well known effect and is there a possible solution?

Sorry, no idea...

> Best,
> G?nter
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> --
>
> *gaich software service    G?nter Gaich
> *
> *fon: +49 (0) 6452-91101-55
> fax: +49 (0) 6452-91101-57
> mobil: +49 (0) 172 970 26 51
> service at gaich.de*

Regards und liebe Gr??e

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From monsieurx at monsieurx.com  Tue Nov 29 10:12:09 2005
From: monsieurx at monsieurx.com (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:12:09 +0100 (GMT-1)
Subject: to sort system date in a list,
 and special effect with sliders (XP)
In-Reply-To: <10189172-775A-4581-8D59-F970EF211221@major-k.de>
References: <438C66E7.2060905@gaich.de>
	<10189172-775A-4581-8D59-F970EF211221@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <39936.193.29.77.101.1133277129.squirrel@193.29.77.101>


Klaus Major said:
> Tach G?nter :-)
>

> What about, supposed the german date (like 29.11.2005) is the third
> item in the field:
>
> ...
>    set the usesystemdate to true
>    ##!!! Check the docs!
>    sort lines of fld xyz datetime by item 3 of each
> ...
>
> Might be a BIT shorter ;-)

Klaus, date sorting does not work...
I tested it and reported it some time ago...
Best is to sort by seconds numeric...
Sorry if this was fixed, i dont have much testing time for the moment...
Last i tried in my browser with detailed file info, it didn't work...
-- 
http://monsieurx.com/taoo



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Tue Nov 29 10:18:05 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:18:05 +0000
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@[192.168.0.101]>
	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

Firstly many thanks to Dave Cragg for telling me about the problems 
with the "answer" command. The documentation for the answer command 
says this:


The prompt is a string (or any expression that evaluates to a 
string). The dialog box expands if necessary to fit the contents.

However, this does not seem to be what happens in real life! In 
reality the promt string is truncated (not sure at what size the 
truncation takes place).

So when I added the answer command to debug the Standalone, they 
would not work, even though the in the IDE the paths were displayed 
correctly. (Because the path strings were shorter in the IDE??? or 
becuase this bug only apprears in a Standalone? Anyone know?)

Has anyone else encountered this problem? If so how do they get around it?

The real problem was my fault, since I hadn't specifed a one of the 
stacks in the Standalone Setting dialog. I would have found this in 
10 minutes if I hadn't been fooled by the answer command not working 
as documented.

Thanks to everyone who helped on this and especially to Dave!

All the Best
Dave

From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Nov 29 10:23:42 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:23:42 +0100
Subject: to sort system date in a list,
	and special effect with sliders (XP)
In-Reply-To: <39936.193.29.77.101.1133277129.squirrel@193.29.77.101>
References: <438C66E7.2060905@gaich.de>
	<10189172-775A-4581-8D59-F970EF211221@major-k.de>
	<39936.193.29.77.101.1133277129.squirrel@193.29.77.101>
Message-ID: <A8BD0D17-5C4A-4CB7-B33F-977F53826534@major-k.de>

Hi Xavier,

> Klaus Major said:
>> Tach G?nter :-)
>>
>
>> What about, supposed the german date (like 29.11.2005) is the third
>> item in the field:
>> ...
>>    set the usesystemdate to true
>>    ##!!! Check the docs!
>>    sort lines of fld xyz datetime by item 3 of each
>> ...
>>
>> Might be a BIT shorter ;-)
>
> Klaus, date sorting does not work...
> I tested it and reported it some time ago...
> Best is to sort by seconds numeric...
> Sorry if this was fixed, i dont have much testing time for the  
> moment...
> Last i tried in my browser with detailed file info, it didn't work...
> -- 
> http://monsieurx.com/taoo

of course i tried before i sent the mail, i always do,
and it worked ;-)

On the other hand the slider bug does not seem to be present on my
(stock) Win XP Home, the slider is fully functional...


Best

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de


From revolution at derbrill.de  Tue Nov 29 10:29:46 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:29:46 +0100
Subject: to sort system date in a list,
	and special effect with sliders (XP)
In-Reply-To: <20051129141619.A9C2582526A@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <F8AECD6E-60EC-11DA-8F17-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Hi Klaus,

 >On the other hand the slider bug does not seem to be present on my
 >(stock) Win XP Home, the slider is fully functional...

Which look and feel do you use there?



From r.beynon at liverpool.ac.uk  Tue Nov 29 10:44:36 2005
From: r.beynon at liverpool.ac.uk (Rob Beynon)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:44:36 +0000
Subject: Graphics primitives or SVG interpreter??
Message-ID: <1465278974.20051129154436@liv.ac.uk>

Greetings All,

I'm  looking  for  either  an SVG to bitmap tool, so that I can import
snapshots  of  SVG  files  into  REV,  =or= a set of graphics primitives
(line,  box,  rotated  text  etc)  to  draw  simple  diagrams  in  x,y
co-ordinate  space  - see for example the peptideMapper output on this
page..

http://www.liv.ac.uk/pfg/Tools.html

Although  this  tool outputs SVG which can be edited in Illustrator or
Inkscape, I'd like to find an easy way to give a preview on the screen
first.

BTW,  I wrote the tool (again, see screenshot) in Rev, and am happy to
give  this  away  to my colleagues. Given as is, without support other
than   'always   interested  to  hear  suggestions/bugs'.  At  ?0,  my
obligations  are  very  limited.  But,  I don't have to earn my living
writing software.

More  relevant is my acknowledgment of the considerable support I've had
from  Eric,  Alex,  Sarah  and  many  others  who  amaze me with their
knowledge,  but  mostly,  their  depth  of  understanding that delivers
'sneaky solutions' which make me grin.

Best wishes

Rob


(Created at 15:42 on 29/11/2005)



From klaus at major-k.de  Tue Nov 29 10:53:39 2005
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus Major)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:53:39 +0100
Subject: to sort system date in a list,
	and special effect with sliders (XP)
In-Reply-To: <F8AECD6E-60EC-11DA-8F17-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
References: <F8AECD6E-60EC-11DA-8F17-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>
Message-ID: <C9E366EE-64D2-4FE2-84AC-1487C19FDAA2@major-k.de>

Hi Malte,

> Hi Klaus,
>
> >On the other hand the slider bug does not seem to be present on my
> >(stock) Win XP Home, the slider is fully functional...
> Which look and feel do you use there?

"native", of course and i NEVER changed the default XP theme,
the blue one, right?


Regards

Klaus Major
klaus at major-k.de
http://www.major-k.de



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Nov 29 10:56:42 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 07:56:42 -0800
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@[192.168.0.101]>	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@[192.168.0.101]>
	<a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <438C7A3A.4040006@fourthworld.com>

David Burgun wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Firstly many thanks to Dave Cragg for telling me about the problems with 
> the "answer" command. The documentation for the answer command says this:
>
> The prompt is a string (or any expression that evaluates to a string). 
> The dialog box expands if necessary to fit the contents.
> 
> However, this does not seem to be what happens in real life! In reality 
> the promt string is truncated (not sure at what size the truncation 
> takes place).

Perhaps both are true.  Have you considered that there may be limits to 
the width of the dialog?  I don't know what Rev's limits are, but I do 
know that if you try these in the Message Box:

   answer "Hello"

   answer "Hello there, good morning, howdy.  This text is" \
    &" arbitrarily long to test the auto-resizing of the answer" \
    &" dialog.  Seems to work, expanding the dialog to fit this text."

...you'll get two different sizes of the Answer dialog, the latter being 
slightly wider and much taller.

I did notice an odd difference between the Answer dialog in Rev and its 
counterpart in the MC IDE:  In MC, you need to specify an icon in order 
to get an icon, but Rev's answer dialog included the icon with the 
syntax shown above, which does not tell it to use one.

Bug or design decision?

> So when I added the answer command to debug the Standalone, they would 
> not work, even though the in the IDE the paths were displayed correctly. 
> (Because the path strings were shorter in the IDE??? or becuase this bug 
> only apprears in a Standalone? Anyone know?)

Ah, yes, long single-word values.  There is a known limitation in the 
engine currently which clips long strings with no spaces to the bounds 
of the field rather than wrapping them.

I believe there may be a BZ request to wrap single-word values if you're 
in a voting mood.

> Has anyone else encountered this problem? If so how do they get around it?

If a string is too long to display horizontally it's usually too much 
information for the user to digest in a dialog.  When I need to present 
such things I usually make a custom window with both vertical and 
horizontal scrollbars on the field.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Nov 29 11:09:47 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 17:09:47 +0100
Subject: to sort system date in a list,
	and special effect with sliders (XP)
In-Reply-To: <A8BD0D17-5C4A-4CB7-B33F-977F53826534@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <20051129152804.AD771824DAB@mail.runrev.com>

> of course i tried before i sent the mail, i always do, and it 
> worked ;-)
> 
> On the other hand the slider bug does not seem to be present on my
> (stock) Win XP Home, the slider is fully functional...
> 

Klaus,

It works as you said! They must have fixed that one ;)
I remember clearly it didn't work... 

Time to fix some sorting handlers ;)

cheers
Xavier


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Klaus Major [mailto:klaus at major-k.de] 
> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November, 2005 16:24
> To: x at monsieurx.com; How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: to sort system date in a list, and special 
> effect with sliders (XP)
> 
> Hi Xavier,
> 
> > Klaus Major said:
> >> Tach G?nter :-)
> >>
> >
> >> What about, supposed the german date (like 29.11.2005) is 
> the third 
> >> item in the field:
> >> ...
> >>    set the usesystemdate to true
> >>    ##!!! Check the docs!
> >>    sort lines of fld xyz datetime by item 3 of each ...
> >>
> >> Might be a BIT shorter ;-)
> >
> > Klaus, date sorting does not work...
> > I tested it and reported it some time ago...
> > Best is to sort by seconds numeric...
> > Sorry if this was fixed, i dont have much testing time for the 
> > moment...
> > Last i tried in my browser with detailed file info, it 
> didn't work...
> > --
> > http://monsieurx.com/taoo
> 
> of course i tried before i sent the mail, i always do, and it 
> worked ;-)
> 
> On the other hand the slider bug does not seem to be present on my
> (stock) Win XP Home, the slider is fully functional...
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> http://www.major-k.de



From b.xavier at internet.lu  Tue Nov 29 11:09:47 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 17:09:47 +0100
Subject: to sort system date in a list,
	and special effect with sliders (XP)
In-Reply-To: <C9E366EE-64D2-4FE2-84AC-1487C19FDAA2@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <20051129152810.DE4E9824DAB@mail.runrev.com>

Hi

I changed the lame blue theme to silver 
and the slider does work as expected...

But the horizontal and vertical "sliders"
do not look the same!!! ;)

X

> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com 
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
> Klaus Major
> Sent: Tuesday, 29 November, 2005 16:54
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: to sort system date in a list,and special effect 
> with sliders (XP)
> 
> Hi Malte,
> 
> > Hi Klaus,
> >
> > >On the other hand the slider bug does not seem to be present on my
> > >(stock) Win XP Home, the slider is fully functional...
> > Which look and feel do you use there?
> 
> "native", of course and i NEVER changed the default XP theme, 
> the blue one, right?
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Klaus Major
> klaus at major-k.de
> http://www.major-k.de
> 



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Nov 29 11:47:33 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:47:33 -0800
Subject: Graphics primitives or SVG interpreter??
In-Reply-To: <1465278974.20051129154436@liv.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <BFB1C625.27E2F%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Rob Beynon wrote:

> I'm  looking  for  either  an SVG to bitmap tool, so that I can import
> snapshots  of  SVG  files  into  REV,  =or= a set of graphics primitives
> (line,  box,  rotated  text  etc)  to  draw  simple  diagrams  in  x,y
> co-ordinate  space

One way to do what you want is to use Altuit's altBrowser plugin for Rev
that allows you to embed a Web browser in your stack.  Then if you have the
SVG browser plugin already installed on your system, you should be able to
display SVG images in your stack, and snapshot (screen capture) as
necessary.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Tue Nov 29 11:48:15 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:48:15 +0000
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
References: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bfb2252b44e6@[192.168.0.101]>

>I learnt Hypercard without a book,
>and I extended my knowledge, as RR extended xTalk, in the
>same way:
>
>by doing!

That's great if you have all the time in the world to "doing" it 
wrong many times! Especially when the documentaion is just plain 
wrong!

>
>Ludwig Wittgenstein said that too many people Philosophise
>and not enough DO PHILOSOPHY.
>
>Now if we all DID Runtime Revolution:
>
>i.e. got in there, got our feet wet, realised that (despite
>a few itches) it really is just about the best
>cross-platform RAD out there, and used the built-in
>documentation as well as we are able to . . .
>
>We would probably shut-up about the 'awful this and the
>awful that'.
>
>Although I am a mere 43 (I have a feeling Dan Shafer is
>older) I started computer programming with FORTRAN 4 in
>1975 - then BASIC, then PASCAL, ZILOG . . . those who moan
>(I don't mean the odd 'twitch') and continue to moan about
>RR's documentation and "lack-of-ease-of-use" ought to try
>programming with one of those horrible Hollerith card
>punchers:
>
>http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/univac/cards.html
>
>a stack of cards,

I did all that too. Started out working in Assembler on Minicomputers 
and IBM/ICL mainframes.

One difference was the number of customers you'd have for a given 
product. Most companies sold computers systems where the hardware was 
at least ?10,000 and most likely more like ?30,000. The system was 
also specified up front and the user paid extra for addition features 
from the base system. Today, we write general purpose software to be 
sold to a mass market, running of different hardware and operating 
systems.

Another difference is that the systems back then had about 10% of the 
complexity of the Mac/PC today. Also in those environments there were 
two areas you had there were seperate, e.g. the language, like 
Assember, Pascal, Fortran, Cobol, C etc. which had separate 
documentation similar to code warrior today. IOW, you can get any one 
of a 100 C/C++, Pascal or Fortran books. In this case there was a 
bible you could look to to see what was *supposed* to happen.

Also when you did find a problem, it was much easier to patch the OS 
or the Assembler/Compiler, and you could step into almost any part of 
the system on a machine code basis. The Debugger was usually in ROM 
which helped too, you couldn't corrupt it.

In the case of environments like RunRev, it's an all in one solution 
and there isn't a bible or a host of other places you can look to see 
what is *supposed* to happen. You are relient on the documentation 
that comes with the system, and since the IDE is part of that same 
system you are developing, the problems are much more complex.

>a Fortran Manual (remember all that stuff about
>formatting?),
>
>and the 2-3 week wait while your cards sat in a queue at
>one of the few Universities that offered a public service.

The difference was you were not trying to make a living out of it, 
and, even if you were, the market was FAR less competitive and the 
application FAR less complex.

All the Best
Dave

From irog at mac.com  Tue Nov 29 11:51:51 2005
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 09:51:51 -0700
Subject: ANN: Phun Physics
Message-ID: <E38743FD-5833-47CC-B42A-648AA32529A1@mac.com>

I've added fireworks (with lots of sound), and dressed up two other  
features of a stack I call PhunPhysics.  You can find it at revOnline  
under RogerG or Education.  Have phun!

Cheers, Roger


From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Tue Nov 29 11:54:03 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:54:03 -0800
Subject: the ubiquitous Answer Dialog: was Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@[192.168.0.101]>
	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@[192.168.0.101]>
	<a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <p06230904bfb233bc3edc@[192.168.1.103]>

I've encountered strangeness with 'Answer' lately as well.

I've been experimenting with HTMLTEXT in answer dialogs - and found 
when you put certain multi-line html text into the prompt parameter, 
the text not only stays within the confines of the window, but if it 
is a certain length, a SCROLL BAR will appear. But you have to use 
the stock icons, and in fact you can't reference ANY image in the 
htmltext either, otherwise you'll lose the scrollbar. You can't even 
specify a different one in the optional icon parameter.

Now this is a feature that I've wanted for a long time - a quick 
window that I don't have to custom-build with a scrolling text field 
for library documentation or for debugging or whatever. The question 
is: is it a bug or a feature? Can I count on this in the future?

So this might be a workaround for your problem.

You can use Chipps's or Eric's tools to create the htmltext easily.


MACOS 10.3.9, Rev 2.6.1 G4 1.33 MHZ 17" powerbook.

ubiquitous

>The prompt is a string (or any expression that evaluates to a 
>string). The dialog box expands if necessary to fit the contents.
>
>However, this does not seem to be what happens in real life! In 
>reality the promt string is truncated (not sure at what size the 
>truncation takes place).
>
>
>Dave

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From scott at tactilemedia.com  Tue Nov 29 12:10:40 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 09:10:40 -0800
Subject: ANN: Phun Physics
In-Reply-To: <E38743FD-5833-47CC-B42A-648AA32529A1@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BFB1CB90.27E6B%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, Roger Guay wrote:

> I've added fireworks (with lots of sound), and dressed up two other
> features of a stack I call PhunPhysics.  You can find it at revOnline
> under RogerG or Education.  Have phun!

Phun stuff -- thanks Roger. :-)

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 12:41:00 2005
From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 09:41:00 -0800
Subject: No backgroundcolor
In-Reply-To: <39836.193.29.77.101.1133249195.squirrel@193.29.77.101>
References: <F320CC4D-3792-439F-A311-0CEFA22328E9@richard-hillen.de>
	<438B703F.4060209@hyperactivesw.com>
	<9ED6B7BE-EC5C-4538-B5BE-E09D8EDC25BE@danshafer.com>
	<438B8AF9.5070709@hyperactivesw.com>
	<39836.193.29.77.101.1133249195.squirrel@193.29.77.101>
Message-ID: <70ed6b130511290941h19866dd1x2e59202298f27060@mail.gmail.com>

Tha tmay be true with ports but if you create a field in OS X, its border
colors work as described, i.e., they show up fine unless the field is 3D in
which case they don't.

On 11/28/05, MisterX <monsieurx at monsieurx.com> wrote:
>
>  OSX ports are just as chaotic...
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


From simplsol at aol.com  Tue Nov 29 12:44:50 2005
From: simplsol at aol.com (simplsol at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:44:50 -0500
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bfb2252b44e6@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<a05210600bfb2252b44e6@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <8C7C323BB30573E-15B8-139D@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com>

Modern times, modern needs, modern tools.
It is 1990 not 1970...oops, it is not even 1990 anymore :-)
Paul Looney

-----Original Message-----
From: David Burgun <dburgun at dsl.pipex.com>
To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:48:15 +0000
Subject: Re: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation

   >I learnt Hypercard without a book,?
 >and I extended my knowledge, as RR extended xTalk, in the?
 >same way:?
 >?
 >by doing!?
?
  That's great if you have all the time in the world to "doing" it wrong 
many times! Especially when the documentaion is just plain wrong!?
?
 >?
 >Ludwig Wittgenstein said that too many people Philosophise?
 >and not enough DO PHILOSOPHY.?
 >?
 >Now if we all DID Runtime Revolution:?
 >?
 >i.e. got in there, got our feet wet, realised that (despite?
 >a few itches) it really is just about the best?
 >cross-platform RAD out there, and used the built-in?
 >documentation as well as we are able to . . .?
 >?
 >We would probably shut-up about the 'awful this and the?
 >awful that'.?
 >?
 >Although I am a mere 43 (I have a feeling Dan Shafer is?
 >older) I started computer programming with FORTRAN 4 in?
 >1975 - then BASIC, then PASCAL, ZILOG . . . those who moan?
 >(I don't mean the odd 'twitch') and continue to moan about?
 >RR's documentation and "lack-of-ease-of-use" ought to try?
 >programming with one of those horrible Hollerith card?
 >punchers:?
 >?
 >http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/univac/cards.html?
 >?
 >a stack of cards,?
?
  I did all that too. Started out working in Assembler on Minicomputers 
and IBM/ICL mainframes.?
?
  One difference was the number of customers you'd have for a given 
product. Most companies sold computers systems where the hardware was 
at least ?10,000 and most likely more like ?30,000. The system was also 
specified up front and the user paid extra for addition features from 
the base system. Today, we write general purpose software to be sold to 
a mass market, running of different hardware and operating systems.?
?
  Another difference is that the systems back then had about 10% of the 
complexity of the Mac/PC today. Also in those environments there were 
two areas you had there were seperate, e.g. the language, like 
Assember, Pascal, Fortran, Cobol, C etc. which had separate 
documentation similar to code warrior today. IOW, you can get any one 
of a 100 C/C++, Pascal or Fortran books. In this case there was a bible 
you could look to to see what was *supposed* to happen.?
?
  Also when you did find a problem, it was much easier to patch the OS 
or the Assembler/Compiler, and you could step into almost any part of 
the system on a machine code basis. The Debugger was usually in ROM 
which helped too, you couldn't corrupt it.?
?
  In the case of environments like RunRev, it's an all in one solution 
and there isn't a bible or a host of other places you can look to see 
what is *supposed* to happen. You are relient on the documentation that 
comes with the system, and since the IDE is part of that same system 
you are developing, the problems are much more complex.?
?
 >a Fortran Manual (remember all that stuff about?
 >formatting?),?
 >?
 >and the 2-3 week wait while your cards sat in a queue at?
 >one of the few Universities that offered a public service.?
?
  The difference was you were not trying to make a living out of it, 
and, even if you were, the market was FAR less competitive and the 
application FAR less complex.?
?
 All the Best?
 Dave?
 _______________________________________________?
 use-revolution mailing list?
 use-revolution at lists.runrev.com?
  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:?
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution?

    


From soapdog at mac.com  Tue Nov 29 12:49:43 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:49:43 -0200
Subject: can't trust htmltext property!
Message-ID: <099C30EE-7BD6-42A4-AC23-86F6460AE7D5@mac.com>

Hi Folks,

why on earth Rev is doing this presentation hack. Put a field on a  
stack, set the htmltext of the field to "<h2>SOMETHING</h2>", now,  
pull the html text property and you'll end with something like:

<p></p>
<p></p>
<p><font size="24"><b>SOMETHING</b></font></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>

Now, if, I set a prop to header 2, I want to pull a header 2, not  
something else... I understand that visually it looks the same but  
for anyone working with HTMLText inside a field this is a big no no,  
show stopper. It's picking one carefully selected tag and replacing  
it with dozens of tags, nesting them and doing all kinds of stuff.

Heck, is this documented somewhere? Something like "hey user beware  
the htmltext, it's a lotery, if you set it, you'll never know what  
you'll pull out."

I am doing a html editor, I thought that if I set a field htmltext to  
some html chunk, allowed user to fiddle a little with it, like  
seeting things bold and changing the string, and after fetching the  
htmltext prop would reflect that changes but the root tag would not  
be affected. Now if you're doing a simple editor, just to edit some  
tags and you end up with the nightmare above, you can kiss your CSS  
setup goodbye... Is there a solution or should I simply start rolling  
my own rich editor not trusting the HTMLText property...

HELL the thing is even loosing attributes!!!! if you use something  
like "<p class="footer">my text</p>" when you check the htmltext prop  
you end up with no attributes. I think it's okay for rev to ignore  
the attribute but to loose it.... things should be simpler.

Damn!
Andre


From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 13:00:35 2005
From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:00:35 -0800
Subject: can't trust htmltext property!
In-Reply-To: <099C30EE-7BD6-42A4-AC23-86F6460AE7D5@mac.com>
References: <099C30EE-7BD6-42A4-AC23-86F6460AE7D5@mac.com>
Message-ID: <70ed6b130511291000l2d471ab6sbb1c50fd68c25ce7@mail.gmail.com>

Andre.....

IMNSHO, the htmlText stuff in Rev is so limited as to border on useless, as
you've found. Besides supporting only a minuscule subset of HTML (to be fair
the docs are clear that this is the case, so it's not a bug, just not a very
useful feature), as you discovered, when you go from setting the htmlText
property of a field and then examining the field contents, the resemblance
between them is purely cosmetic.

Chipp at Altuit has an HTML gadget which does some more stuff than the Rev
IDE lets you do and I use it for editing HTML snippets from time to time. He
may be able to shed some light on how you could get closer to an HTML editor
in Rev, but I've looked long and hard at that problem and declared it, for
the moment at least, if not intractable then at least hard enough not to be
worth my time. For starters, the inability to deal with text alignment on a
line-by-line basis in a Rev field is a show stopper as far as I can tell.

On 11/29/05, Andre Garzia <soapdog at mac.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> I am doing a html editor, <snip> Is there a solution or should I simply
> start rolling
> my own rich editor not trusting the HTMLText property...
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Nov 29 13:02:06 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 19:02:06 +0100
Subject: can't trust htmltext property!
In-Reply-To: <099C30EE-7BD6-42A4-AC23-86F6460AE7D5@mac.com>
References: <099C30EE-7BD6-42A4-AC23-86F6460AE7D5@mac.com>
Message-ID: <A4B35D93-2FE1-4712-89C6-09CFD7AEEB33@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Andre,

Unfortunately, Rev HTML is not HTML :-(

 From the docs:
The HTMLText property uses a tag structure that is HTML-like, but is  
not completely standard HTML, in order to accommodate the full range  
of text styling available in Revolution.

And:
When you set the HTMLText of a field, all tags other than those above  
are ignored, except heading tags (<h1>--<h6>), which change the size  
of the text in the heading element:
	tag		textSize
	<h1>		34 point
	<h2>		24 point
	<h3>		18 point
	<h4>		14 point
	<h5>		12 point
	<h6>		10 point

All this does not help :-(

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 29 nov. 05 ? 18:49, Andre Garzia a ?crit :

> why on earth Rev is doing this presentation hack. Put a field on a  
> stack, set the htmltext of the field to "<h2>SOMETHING</h2>", now,  
> pull the html text property and you'll end with something like:
>
> <p></p>
> <p></p>
> <p><font size="24"><b>SOMETHING</b></font></p>
> <p></p>
> <p></p>
>
> Now, if, I set a prop to header 2, I want to pull a header 2, not  
> something else... I understand that visually it looks the same but  
> for anyone working with HTMLText inside a field this is a big no  
> no, show stopper. It's picking one carefully selected tag and  
> replacing it with dozens of tags, nesting them and doing all kinds  
> of stuff.
>
> Heck, is this documented somewhere? Something like "hey user beware  
> the htmltext, it's a lotery, if you set it, you'll never know what  
> you'll pull out."
>
> I am doing a html editor, I thought that if I set a field htmltext  
> to some html chunk, allowed user to fiddle a little with it, like  
> seeting things bold and changing the string, and after fetching the  
> htmltext prop would reflect that changes but the root tag would not  
> be affected. Now if you're doing a simple editor, just to edit some  
> tags and you end up with the nightmare above, you can kiss your CSS  
> setup goodbye... Is there a solution or should I simply start  
> rolling my own rich editor not trusting the HTMLText property...
>
> HELL the thing is even loosing attributes!!!! if you use something  
> like "<p class="footer">my text</p>" when you check the htmltext  
> prop you end up with no attributes. I think it's okay for rev to  
> ignore the attribute but to loose it.... things should be simpler.

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Nov 29 13:03:55 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 19:03:55 +0100
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@[192.168.0.101]>
	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@[192.168.0.101]>
	<a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <D376EE6C-BA1F-45E6-97A1-45F0DDD44353@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Dave,

Two thoughts:
1. The Ask/Answer dialogs must be included in the standalone if you  
use them: you have 2 check boxes for that (Or use the bug reports  
feature).
2. I don't know what version of Rev you use but there were real  
truncation problems with 2.5.x that seem to have been almost solved  
with 2.6.x.

Le 29 nov. 05 ? 16:18, David Burgun a ?crit :

> The prompt is a string (or any expression that evaluates to a  
> string). The dialog box expands if necessary to fit the contents.
>
> However, this does not seem to be what happens in real life! In  
> reality the promt string is truncated (not sure at what size the  
> truncation takes place).
>
> So when I added the answer command to debug the Standalone, they  
> would not work, even though the in the IDE the paths were displayed  
> correctly. (Because the path strings were shorter in the IDE??? or  
> becuase this bug only apprears in a Standalone? Anyone know?)
>
> Has anyone else encountered this problem? If so how do they get  
> around it?

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue Nov 29 13:07:41 2005
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:07:41 -0800
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <D376EE6C-BA1F-45E6-97A1-45F0DDD44353@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@[192.168.0.101]>
	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@[192.168.0.101]>
	<a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@[192.168.0.101]>
	<D376EE6C-BA1F-45E6-97A1-45F0DDD44353@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <76B7A7E4-93AF-4E97-B600-047F1BAA5C6F@mangomultimedia.com>

On Nov 29, 2005, at 10:03 AM, Eric Chatonet wrote:

> 2. I don't know what version of Rev you use but there were real  
> truncation problems with 2.5.x that seem to have been almost solved  
> with 2.6.x.

2.6.0 fixed some answer dialog issues but I still saw sentences that  
would run off the right side of the dialog box on occasion.  2.6.1  
fixed on all these instances in my apps.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com




From soapdog at mac.com  Tue Nov 29 13:09:03 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:09:03 -0200
Subject: can't trust htmltext property!
In-Reply-To: <A4B35D93-2FE1-4712-89C6-09CFD7AEEB33@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <099C30EE-7BD6-42A4-AC23-86F6460AE7D5@mac.com>
	<A4B35D93-2FE1-4712-89C6-09CFD7AEEB33@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <A4F0079D-B6AC-4E01-9818-0C496AA3F63B@mac.com>

Dan and Eric,

thanks a lot... I should have known better.... I don't need the full  
html support, just need basic text, not even alighment. Since it's  
known how h1 to h6 will behave, I'll write myself a translator to  
move back from <font size=24"> to <h2> when I pull the htmltext, will  
use setprop and getprop to make me a uAndreViewsOnHTMLText  
customprop, it should not be so hard... it's just a friggin paragraph/ 
header editor!!!!

I never expected htmltext to be able to present full html files, for  
that we have altBrowser but I really hoped that it would at least  
mantain state for text style tags and would ignore everything else  
(ignore is different from loosing information).

Cheers
andre

On Nov 29, 2005, at 4:02 PM, Eric Chatonet wrote:

> Hi Andre,
>
> Unfortunately, Rev HTML is not HTML :-(
>
> From the docs:
> The HTMLText property uses a tag structure that is HTML-like, but  
> is not completely standard HTML, in order to accommodate the full  
> range of text styling available in Revolution.
>
> And:
> When you set the HTMLText of a field, all tags other than those  
> above are ignored, except heading tags (<h1>--<h6>), which change  
> the size of the text in the heading element:
> 	tag		textSize
> 	<h1>		34 point
> 	<h2>		24 point
> 	<h3>		18 point
> 	<h4>		14 point
> 	<h5>		12 point
> 	<h6>		10 point
>
> All this does not help :-(
>
> Best Regards from Paris,
>
> Eric Chatonet.



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Nov 29 13:09:34 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 19:09:34 +0100
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <76B7A7E4-93AF-4E97-B600-047F1BAA5C6F@mangomultimedia.com>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@[192.168.0.101]>
	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@[192.168.0.101]>
	<a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@[192.168.0.101]>
	<D376EE6C-BA1F-45E6-97A1-45F0DDD44353@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<76B7A7E4-93AF-4E97-B600-047F1BAA5C6F@mangomultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <0535D06F-B422-4775-ABB7-C42A38A920B9@sosmartsoftware.com>

Thanks Trevor for being more precise than me :-)

Le 29 nov. 05 ? 19:07, Trevor DeVore a ?crit :

> On Nov 29, 2005, at 10:03 AM, Eric Chatonet wrote:
>
>> 2. I don't know what version of Rev you use but there were real  
>> truncation problems with 2.5.x that seem to have been almost  
>> solved with 2.6.x.
>
> 2.6.0 fixed some answer dialog issues but I still saw sentences  
> that would run off the right side of the dialog box on occasion.   
> 2.6.1 fixed on all these instances in my apps.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Tue Nov 29 13:11:28 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:11:28 +0000
Subject: the ubiquitous Answer Dialog: was Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <p06230904bfb233bc3edc@[192.168.1.103]>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@[192.168.0.101]>
	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@[192.168.0.101]>
	<a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@[192.168.0.101]>
	<p06230904bfb233bc3edc@[192.168.1.103]>
Message-ID: <a05210600bfb243b36b36@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

Thanks for this, but I can't help thinking - "Wouldn't it just be 
better to fix the bug(s) in the answer command? That way we could all 
use an inbuilt command to debug our code. I try to avoid custom 
debugging aids if possible since they can cause subtle changes in the 
way the environment executes and mask problems or cause new ones.

Is the code available for the Answer command? If so, I might have a 
go at fixing it.

Thanks a lot
All the Best
Dave

>I've encountered strangeness with 'Answer' lately as well.
>
>I've been experimenting with HTMLTEXT in answer dialogs - and found 
>when you put certain multi-line html text into the prompt parameter, 
>the text not only stays within the confines of the window, but if it 
>is a certain length, a SCROLL BAR will appear. But you have to use 
>the stock icons, and in fact you can't reference ANY image in the 
>htmltext either, otherwise you'll lose the scrollbar. You can't even 
>specify a different one in the optional icon parameter.
>
>Now this is a feature that I've wanted for a long time - a quick 
>window that I don't have to custom-build with a scrolling text field 
>for library documentation or for debugging or whatever. The question 
>is: is it a bug or a feature? Can I count on this in the future?
>
>So this might be a workaround for your problem.
>
>You can use Chipps's or Eric's tools to create the htmltext easily.
>
>
>MACOS 10.3.9, Rev 2.6.1 G4 1.33 MHZ 17" powerbook.
>
>ubiquitous
>
>>The prompt is a string (or any expression that evaluates to a 
>>string). The dialog box expands if necessary to fit the contents.
>>
>>However, this does not seem to be what happens in real life! In 
>>reality the promt string is truncated (not sure at what size the 
>>truncation takes place).
>>
>>
>>Dave
>
>--
>stephen barncard
>s a n  f r a n c i s c o
>- - -  - - - - - - - - -
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Tue Nov 29 13:10:46 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:10:46 -0800
Subject: can't trust htmltext property!
In-Reply-To: <099C30EE-7BD6-42A4-AC23-86F6460AE7D5@mac.com>
References: <099C30EE-7BD6-42A4-AC23-86F6460AE7D5@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p0623090bbfb245f9852b@[192.168.1.103]>

Yes, it would probably work better to roll your own RTF-to-HTML 
converters. RTF in rev seems to be pretty solid. I notice that rev's 
htmltext uses simple FONT tags inline, which is pretty old stuff in 
the web world - in fact not advised. At any rate, the numbers are in 
font SIZES 1 - xxx? - not pixels, and some text gets to be HUGE when 
presented in a web browser. Perhaps there's a scaling factor, but...

Ideally, an RTF to HTML interpreter would imbed style definitions in 
the header, and use DIV tags and .classes for styled paragraphs.

Sounds like a library to me! I love text-munging projects like this...
sqb

>Hi Folks,
>
>why on earth Rev is doing this presentation hack. Put a field on a 
>stack, set the htmltext of the field to "<h2>SOMETHING</h2>", now, 
>pull the html text property and you'll end with something like:
>
><p></p>
><p></p>
><p><font size="24"><b>SOMETHING</b></font></p>
><p></p>
><p></p>

...

>
>HELL the thing is even loosing attributes!!!! if you use something 
>like "<p class="footer">my text</p>" when you check the htmltext 
>prop you end up with no attributes. I think it's okay for rev to 
>ignore the attribute but to loose it.... things should be simpler.
>
>Damn!
>Andre

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Nov 29 13:12:17 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 19:12:17 +0100
Subject: can't trust htmltext property!
In-Reply-To: <A4F0079D-B6AC-4E01-9818-0C496AA3F63B@mac.com>
References: <099C30EE-7BD6-42A4-AC23-86F6460AE7D5@mac.com>
	<A4B35D93-2FE1-4712-89C6-09CFD7AEEB33@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<A4F0079D-B6AC-4E01-9818-0C496AA3F63B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <8B6CD44B-ADC9-4BF5-9EDC-6D7E593883CF@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi again Andre,

In fact, the htmlText property is very useful *inside* an app/stack:
Get/set the htmlText of fld MyField but often fails when the source  
is coming from elsewhere...

Le 29 nov. 05 ? 19:09, Andre Garzia a ?crit :

> thanks a lot... I should have known better.... I don't need the  
> full html support, just need basic text, not even alighment. Since  
> it's known how h1 to h6 will behave, I'll write myself a translator  
> to move back from <font size=24"> to <h2> when I pull the htmltext,  
> will use setprop and getprop to make me a uAndreViewsOnHTMLText  
> customprop, it should not be so hard... it's just a friggin  
> paragraph/header editor!!!!
>
> I never expected htmltext to be able to present full html files,  
> for that we have altBrowser but I really hoped that it would at  
> least mantain state for text style tags and would ignore everything  
> else (ignore is different from loosing information).

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Tue Nov 29 13:25:14 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:25:14 +0000
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <D376EE6C-BA1F-45E6-97A1-45F0DDD44353@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@[192.168.0.101]>
	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@[192.168.0.101]>
	<a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@[192.168.0.101]>
	<D376EE6C-BA1F-45E6-97A1-45F0DDD44353@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <a05210602bfb24cec960a@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

More confusion! The version of RunRev I am using says 2.6.1 build 152 
in the About RunTime Revolution box, but the version of the 
application is Revolution 2.6.6.152 in the finder Get Info box.

How to tell which one is right and hard to know why they are different.

Is this the correct version?

Thanks a lot
Dave

>Hi Dave,
>
>Two thoughts:
>1. The Ask/Answer dialogs must be included in the standalone if you 
>use them: you have 2 check boxes for that (Or use the bug reports 
>feature).
>2. I don't know what version of Rev you use but there were real 
>truncation problems with 2.5.x that seem to have been almost solved 
>with 2.6.x.
>
>Le 29 nov. 05 ? 16:18, David Burgun a ?crit :
>
>>The prompt is a string (or any expression that evaluates to a 
>>string). The dialog box expands if necessary to fit the contents.
>>
>>However, this does not seem to be what happens in real life! In 
>>reality the promt string is truncated (not sure at what size the 
>>truncation takes place).
>>
>>So when I added the answer command to debug the Standalone, they 
>>would not work, even though the in the IDE the paths were displayed 
>>correctly. (Because the path strings were shorter in the IDE??? or 
>>becuase this bug only apprears in a Standalone? Anyone know?)
>>
>>Has anyone else encountered this problem? If so how do they get around it?
>
>Best Regards from Paris,
>
>Eric Chatonet.
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>So Smart Software
>
>For institutions, companies and associations
>Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
>Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
>Free plugins and tutorials on my website
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
>Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
>Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
>Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From FlexibleLearning at aol.com  Tue Nov 29 13:26:07 2005
From: FlexibleLearning at aol.com (FlexibleLearning at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 13:26:07 EST
Subject: How to you make a stack unmovable
Message-ID: <1aa.433ecb4d.30bdf73f@aol.com>

 
I agree with Richard G, Jason... an interface review may be in order.  
However, to accomplish what you want, the most straightforward solution would be  to 
fake it using graphics for the 'titlebar'.
 
/H
 
> I want to make a stack (like a help stack) which apart of the main  stack
>
> I don't want the user to be able to move this stack, but I  still want to
> have a close button on the top like a normal  window.
>
> How is this  possible?



From service at gaich.de  Tue Nov 29 13:28:39 2005
From: service at gaich.de (gaich software service)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 19:28:39 +0100
Subject: to sort system date in a list and special effect with sliders
Message-ID: <438C9DD7.2080306@gaich.de>

Mark, Malte, Klaus,

thank you for your quick riply !!


Mark,

to sort by the result of a function is a good idea. I think that will
help me  as for similarly problems.


Malte,

I just voted for that bug at Bugzilla. And thank you for your german
translation.


Klaus,

ERP stands for Enterprise-Resource-Planning. A business management
system that integrates all facets of the business, including planning,
manufacturing, sales, and marketing.
Thank you for your tip to use 'usesystemdate'. SO easy - like many
things in Revolution!


Cheers!
G?nter


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------

*gaich software service
G?nter Gaich
*
*fon: +49 (0) 6452-91101-55
fax: +49 (0) 6452-91101-57
mobil: +49 (0) 172 970 26 51
service at gaich.de*





From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Nov 29 13:30:04 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:30:04 -0800
Subject: the ubiquitous Answer Dialog: was Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bfb243b36b36@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@[192.168.0.101]>	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@[192.168.0.101]>	<a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@[192.168.0.101]>	<p06230904bfb233bc3edc@[192.168.1.103]>
	<a05210600bfb243b36b36@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <438C9E2C.7060506@fourthworld.com>

David Burgun wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for this, but I can't help thinking - "Wouldn't it just be better 
> to fix the bug(s) in the answer command? That way we could all use an 
> inbuilt command to debug our code. I try to avoid custom debugging aids 
> if possible since they can cause subtle changes in the way the 
> environment executes and mask problems or cause new ones.
> 
> Is the code available for the Answer command? If so, I might have a go 
> at fixing it.

There are two options for this:  adding a horizontal scrollbar with the 
formattedWidth exceeds the available space, or altering the text engine 
so that it breaks on non-word boundaries.

The latter would require rewriting the text engine in Rev, so if you're 
looking for DIY solutions the scrollbar one shouldn't be too hard.

I recently rewrite the Ask and Answer dialogs for the MC IDE, and they 
were tedious but not too complicated. I can't imagine the Rev dialogs 
are much harder to deal with.  In MC all the code is contained in the 
stacks themselves; with any luck the same is true for Rev so you'll have 
no trouble finding what you needs.

If you enhance them it might make a good exercise to also make a patcher 
  as well, so folks could update their IDE if they choose.

And as Kevin has said here before, if you send a patcher to them they 
tend to roll changes into the IDE faster than with just a request.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Nov 29 13:39:53 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:39:53 -0600
Subject: ANN: Answer Dialog Patch Available
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bfb243b36b36@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@[192.168.0.101]>	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@[192.168.0.101]>	<a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@[192.168.0.101]>	<p06230904bfb233bc3edc@[192.168.1.103]>
	<a05210600bfb243b36b36@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <438CA079.10409@chipp.com>

I've had the same probs as you all, and finally got around to writing a 
patch for answer dialog. You can get it by typing into the msg:

go URL "http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/answerPatch.rev"

Then follow the directions. You can also 'unpatch' with this tool as well.

Here's the bug:

RR decided in 2.6 to become more HIG compatible with dialog box widths.

Unfortunately, if a string is too long without spaces, it will run past 
the standard width of the dialog box. This can happen when displaying 
filepaths or large font htmltext messages.

The fix will only grow the width of the dialog when absolutely 
necessary. It will still maintain the HIG compatible widths unless the 
text runs off of it.

I also fixed it to use the Windows standard Tahoma font at 11 points as 
well.

hope you like it.

-Chipp



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Nov 29 13:44:14 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:44:14 -0800
Subject: can't trust htmltext property!
In-Reply-To: <A4B35D93-2FE1-4712-89C6-09CFD7AEEB33@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <099C30EE-7BD6-42A4-AC23-86F6460AE7D5@mac.com>
	<A4B35D93-2FE1-4712-89C6-09CFD7AEEB33@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <438CA17E.6060100@fourthworld.com>

Eric Chatonet wrote:
> Hi Andre,
> 
> Unfortunately, Rev HTML is not HTML :-(
> 
>  From the docs:
> The HTMLText property uses a tag structure that is HTML-like, but is  
> not completely standard HTML, in order to accommodate the full range  of 
> text styling available in Revolution.
> 
> And:
> When you set the HTMLText of a field, all tags other than those above  
> are ignored, except heading tags (<h1>--<h6>), which change the size  of 
> the text in the heading element:
>     tag        textSize
>     <h1>        34 point
>     <h2>        24 point
>     <h3>        18 point
>     <h4>        14 point
>     <h5>        12 point
>     <h6>        10 point

Great info, Eric. Thanks for posting that.

Andre, as Eric pointed out what Rev calls "htmlText" is really 
"sgmlBasedFormattingThatHappensToLookALotLikeOldSchoolHtml", but that 
property name was too long so it got shortened to "htmlText". :)

The purpose for htmlText within Rev is to provide an ASCII-based method 
of describing all text attributes supported in the engine, including 
things like threeDbox, strikeOut, and others not commonly found in HTML. 
  It allows you to reproduce text within Rev with complete fidelity from 
field to field, and since it's ASCII you can use chunk expressions 
and/or regex or any other ways to manipulate it easily in between fields.

So while the choice of the token name is arguably problematic, the 
implementation does what it was designed to do very well.

It's worth noting that htmlText goes further than RtfText (if memory 
serves), as RtfText was designed for interoperability with other 
document systems and doesn't include all of Rev's native text attributes 
as htmlText does. (I could be wrong on that, and if someone knows for 
sure that rtfText renders all attributes from field to field with 
complete fidelity I'll be quite happy to have been mistaken).

Although designed for internal use (what would "H3" mean in a system 
that uses absolute rather than relative text sizes?), with Eric's chart 
you can easily write a function to alter htmlText into a form compatible 
with most web browsers.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From service at gaich.de  Tue Nov 29 13:44:33 2005
From: service at gaich.de (gaich software service)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 19:44:33 +0100
Subject: to sort system date in a list and special effect with sliders
Message-ID: <438CA191.3080209@gaich.de>

Klaus and ...,

the problem with the sliders occur only if you save a standalone with 
Classic Style in windowsXP and then execute it with XP Style on.


Cheers!
G?nter


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------

*gaich software service
G?nter Gaich
*
*fon: +49 (0) 6452-91101-55
fax: +49 (0) 6452-91101-57
mobil: +49 (0) 172 970 26 51
service at gaich.de*






From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Nov 29 13:46:14 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:46:14 -0600
Subject: ANN: Answer Dialog Patch Available
In-Reply-To: <438CA079.10409@chipp.com>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@[192.168.0.101]>	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@[192.168.0.101]>	<a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@[192.168.0.101]>	<p06230904bfb233bc3edc@[192.168.1.103]>	<a05210600bfb243b36b36@[192.168.0.101]>
	<438CA079.10409@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <438CA1F6.9040208@chipp.com>

Just thought I'd mention, it's tested on both Mac and PC.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Nov 29 13:48:08 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:48:08 -0800
Subject: ANN: Answer Dialog Patch Available
In-Reply-To: <438CA079.10409@chipp.com>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@[192.168.0.101]>	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@[192.168.0.101]>	<a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@[192.168.0.101]>	<p06230904bfb233bc3edc@[192.168.1.103]>	<a05210600bfb243b36b36@[192.168.0.101]>
	<438CA079.10409@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <438CA268.7070901@fourthworld.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:
> I've had the same probs as you all, and finally got around to writing a 
> patch for answer dialog. You can get it by typing into the msg:
> 
> go URL "http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/answerPatch.rev"
> 
> Then follow the directions. You can also 'unpatch' with this tool as well.

Great stuff, Chipp.  Thanks for posting that.

Extra bonus points that it also comes with an unpatcher -- no commitment 
required. :)  Well done.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Nov 29 13:51:25 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:51:25 -0600
Subject: can't trust htmltext property!
In-Reply-To: <A4F0079D-B6AC-4E01-9818-0C496AA3F63B@mac.com>
References: <099C30EE-7BD6-42A4-AC23-86F6460AE7D5@mac.com>	<A4B35D93-2FE1-4712-89C6-09CFD7AEEB33@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<A4F0079D-B6AC-4E01-9818-0C496AA3F63B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <438CA32D.8000703@chipp.com>

Hi Andre,

I've had to write a basic HTML editor as well for Hemingway. I find you 
really need to use htmltext as a display engine for your own html 
parsers/wrappers, and nothing else.

-Chipp



From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Nov 29 13:52:40 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:52:40 -0600
Subject: ANN: Answer Dialog Patch Available
In-Reply-To: <438CA268.7070901@fourthworld.com>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@[192.168.0.101]>	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@[192.168.0.101]>	<a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@[192.168.0.101]>	<p06230904bfb233bc3edc@[192.168.1.103]>	<a05210600bfb243b36b36@[192.168.0.101]>	<438CA079.10409@chipp.com>
	<438CA268.7070901@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <438CA378.7050407@chipp.com>

Thanks Richard,

It also comes with a tester, and checks the RevAppVersion() so as to 
make sure you don't install it on a *future* version of Rev (of course 
there's an overide).

-Chipp

Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Chipp Walters wrote:
> 
>> I've had the same probs as you all, and finally got around to writing 
>> a patch for answer dialog. You can get it by typing into the msg:
>>
>> go URL "http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/answerPatch.rev"
>>
>> Then follow the directions. You can also 'unpatch' with this tool as 
>> well.
> 
> 
> Great stuff, Chipp.  Thanks for posting that.
> 
> Extra bonus points that it also comes with an unpatcher -- no commitment 
> required. :)  Well done.
> 
> -- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Managing Editor, revJournal
>  _______________________________________________________
>  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 

-- 
--------------
Chipp Walters
www.altuit.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Nov 29 14:02:43 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:02:43 -0800
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <a05210602bfb24cec960a@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@[192.168.0.101]>	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@[192.168.0.101]>	<a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@[192.168.0.101]>	<D376EE6C-BA1F-45E6-97A1-45F0DDD44353@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<a05210602bfb24cec960a@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <438CA5D3.5030508@fourthworld.com>

David Burgun wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> More confusion! The version of RunRev I am using says 2.6.1 build 152 in 
> the About RunTime Revolution box, but the version of the application is 
> Revolution 2.6.6.152 in the finder Get Info box.
> 
> How to tell which one is right and hard to know why they are different.
> 
> Is this the correct version?

Both.

There are two parts to the Rev product:  the engine and the IDE.

The engine version is 2.6.6 build 152, and the Rev IDE is 2.6.1 build 
152.  The former is obtainable with a call to "the version", and the 
latter with a call to "revAppVersion()".

There's a historical reason for this difference, which reflects 
practical considerations even today:

Once upon a time the engine we know as "Revolution" was called 
"MetaCard".  MetaCard v1.0 was released in 1992, and Scott Raney (the 
inventor of the engine) was unusually conservative with his version 
numbering, so even after a decade it was still at v2.4.  Somewhere 
around 1998 MetaCard Corp. licenced the engine to RunRev Ltd. to produce 
Revolution.  So at that time Rev 1.0 was using the MetaCard 2.4 engine.

A few years ago RunRev Ltd. acquired the engine from MetaCard Corp. 
Since then engine releases generally happen at the same time as IDE 
releases, but if the auto-update feature becomes functional that may not 
always be the case, as it would enable RunRev to update IDE components 
on the fly using the same engine build.

The MetaCard IDE's About box displays both the engine version and the 
IDE version.  Rev might consider this as well, but since they seem to be 
moving toward parity between the two there may not be a difference soon 
enough.

In the meantime it would probably be a cleaner experience for users if 
the version number in the Finder plist file reflected the IDE build, 
since any differences between IDE and engine versions are generally of 
interest only to the most ardent Transcript nerds.

Has anyone submitted a request for that to BZ?  Might be worth their 
consideration until the two versions are in synch.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Nov 29 14:07:36 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:07:36 -0800
Subject: Ubuntu and sound files
Message-ID: <7310975121.20051129110736@ahsoftware.net>

All-

For the record...

I finally got back to my Ubuntu box and found that I have no problem
at all playing .aiff files (or .wav files, for that matter) in rev
stacks. In fact, at the moment that's the only way I *can* play them,
since Ubuntu comes without builtin players for these file types.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Nov 29 14:09:09 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:09:09 -0800
Subject: Ubuntu and sound files
In-Reply-To: <7310975121.20051129110736@ahsoftware.net>
References: <7310975121.20051129110736@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <438CA755.2010608@fourthworld.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:

> I finally got back to my Ubuntu box and found that I have no problem
> at all playing .aiff files (or .wav files, for that matter) in rev
> stacks. In fact, at the moment that's the only way I *can* play them,
> since Ubuntu comes without builtin players for these file types.

That's encouraging.

Do you know offhand if it also handles AU format?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From robertum at brturbo.com  Tue Nov 29 14:15:23 2005
From: robertum at brturbo.com (Bob Warren)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 17:15:23 -0200
Subject: Graphics primitives or SVG interpreter??
Message-ID: <438CA8CB.4010907@brturbo.com>

Rob:

Further to Scott's helpful advice, there is an article about altBrowser at
http://www.howsoft.com/runrev/vector_graphics_in_revolution.htm

This might be helpful if you want to roll your own utility in RR to 
automate the task.

If you don't mind using programs in Windows/VB, there is a program 
specifically for SVG to raster conversion called "SVG2Raster Utility" at:-

http://www.howsoft.com/alphas.html

- but please note that this utility is only useful for converting SVG 
images that are no bigger than your screen display.

However, another utility called "WebCap" at

http://www.howsoft.com/windows.htm

should enable you to capture/rasterise SVGs of up to 6 screen heights 
(as well as normal webpages).

Regards,
Bob Warren

--------------------------------------------------------------------
 >>Recently, Rob Beynon wrote:


 >> I'm  looking  for  either  an SVG to bitmap tool, so that I can import
 >> snapshots  of  SVG  files  into  REV,  =or= a set of graphics primitives
 >> (line,  box,  rotated  text  etc)  to  draw  simple  diagrams  in  x,y
 >> co-ordinate  space


 >One way to do what you want is to use Altuit's altBrowser plugin for >Rev
 >that allows you to embed a Web browser in your stack.  Then if you 
have >the
 >SVG browser plugin already installed on your system, you should be 
able >to
 >display SVG images in your stack, and snapshot (screen capture) as
 >necessary.

 >Regards,

 >Scott Rossi
 >Creative Director
 >Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
 >-----
 >E: scott at tactilemedia.com
 >W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



------------------------------


From lists at nabble.com  Tue Nov 29 14:26:27 2005
From: lists at nabble.com (kooto (sent by Nabble.com))
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:26:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Following this List
In-Reply-To: <EA1E4548-A36D-4CDC-8AAB-EBDF011E265A@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <F320CC4D-3792-439F-A311-0CEFA22328E9@richard-hillen.de>
	<438B703F.4060209@hyperactivesw.com>
	<9ED6B7BE-EC5C-4538-B5BE-E09D8EDC25BE@danshafer.com>
	<20051128212938.42309.qmail@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<EA1E4548-A36D-4CDC-8AAB-EBDF011E265A@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <1703852.post@talk.nabble.com>


> I want to keep following this list.  But, my inbox is getting  
> blasted pretty good. Are there any other options for following this list, 
> other than e-mail?  Is this shadowed to a forum anywhere?

Here is another threaded view of this active list hosted by Nabble archive. It allows different sorting and a powerful search:

http://www.nabble.com/Revolution---User-f2297.html

You can also use the Nabble email alert to get an alert only when your thread gets a response, vs getting a copy of every email on this list.
--
Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com:
http://www.nabble.com/No-backgroundcolor-t633536.html#a1703852


From revolution at jaedworks.com  Tue Nov 29 03:59:26 2005
From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 00:59:26 -0800
Subject: No backgroundcolor
In-Reply-To: <438B8AF9.5070709@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <F320CC4D-3792-439F-A311-0CEFA22328E9@richard-hillen.de>
	<438B703F.4060209@hyperactivesw.com>
	<9ED6B7BE-EC5C-4538-B5BE-E09D8EDC25BE@danshafer.com>
	<438B8AF9.5070709@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <p06210201bfb1c772a785@[66.93.39.98]>

At 4:55 PM -0600 11/28/2005, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>Before I responded I did a quick test and foregroundcolor didn't 
>change the edges. Bordercolor did. But I had to turn off the threeD 
>property to see it -- with threeD turned on, the border was always 
>gray no matter what. In any case, the forecolor didn't change the 
>border color of the field.

With the threeD turned on, the border is drawn in the topColor and 
bottomColor (for the part that "sticks out" of the screen and the 
part that "sinks in", respectively). So you don't see a change when 
the borderColor changes: the borderColor isn't used when threeD is 
true.
-- 
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ revolution at jaedworks.com
http://www.jaedworks.com


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Nov 29 14:36:33 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:36:33 +0100
Subject: ANN: Answer Dialog Patch Available
In-Reply-To: <438CA079.10409@chipp.com>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@[192.168.0.101]>	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@[192.168.0.101]>	<a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@[192.168.0.101]>	<p06230904bfb233bc3edc@[192.168.1.103]>
	<a05210600bfb243b36b36@[192.168.0.101]> <438CA079.10409@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <F7EEB8FF-4100-4E92-AC53-CE0C8C935F6B@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Chipp,

Thanks for this one and the humour with which the install is proposed.

Le 29 nov. 05 ? 19:39, Chipp Walters a ?crit :

> I've had the same probs as you all, and finally got around to  
> writing a patch for answer dialog. You can get it by typing into  
> the msg:
>
> go URL "http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/answerPatch.rev"


Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com  Tue Nov 29 15:05:30 2005
From: gandalf at doctorTimothyMiller.com (Timothy Miller)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:05:30 -0800
Subject: Rev and User Accounts
In-Reply-To: <p06210216bfb04be5646f@[192.168.2.17]>
References: <p06200700bfafd79e0e93@[10.0.1.201]>
	<438A6AB2.70504@hyperactivesw.com> <438A8565.7030304@fourthworld.com>
	<p06210216bfb04be5646f@[192.168.2.17]>
Message-ID: <p06200701bfb26371a48f@[10.0.1.201]>

I just learned about assigning privileges to folders, for different 
users on the same machine. Believe it or not, I knew nothing about 
this. I never had more than one account on a machine before, and 
don't often network.

That'll answer all my questions regarding accounts. It will also mean 
I'll be on the list less often. I'll now be able to lock myself out 
of email for most of every workday.

I'll see ya round the neighborhood now and then, though.

Thanks for the attempts to assist,

Cheers,


Tim


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Nov 29 15:07:50 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:07:50 +0100
Subject: Little trick about lines and paragraphs
Message-ID: <AD7C37EF-62EC-4BB8-AB11-22DB48D9D3C0@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi All,

A little trick that can help:
The problem: you want to add a header in a text field and want the  
field scrolled to the beginning of the meaningful text in order that  
nothing seems to change for the user (the header is added but stays  
hidden). Off course, you want it to work cross-platform and, may be,  
with the fixedLineHeight set to false:

       local tHtmlText,tHeader,tHeight
       -----
       put the htmlText of fld "Display" into tHtmlText
       set the htmlText of fld "Display" to tHeader & cr & "<p></p>"  
& cr & tHtmlText
       repeat with i = 1 to the number of lines of tHeader
         add the formattedHeight of line i of fld "Display" to tHeight
       end repeat
       set the scroll of fld " Display" to tHeight

According to the field's width, even if a *line* in the header *takes  
2 or more usual lines*, the resulting scroll will be perfect :-)
The trick: the formattedHeight of any paragraph returns the height  
needed for all *usual* lines that make up the paragraph.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From soapdog at mac.com  Tue Nov 29 15:22:58 2005
From: soapdog at mac.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:22:58 -0200
Subject: can't trust htmltext property!
In-Reply-To: <438CA32D.8000703@chipp.com>
References: <099C30EE-7BD6-42A4-AC23-86F6460AE7D5@mac.com>
	<A4B35D93-2FE1-4712-89C6-09CFD7AEEB33@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<A4F0079D-B6AC-4E01-9818-0C496AA3F63B@mac.com>
	<438CA32D.8000703@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <641E39C9-8552-45F1-A4D4-874E997C1622@mac.com>

Chipp, Richard, Dan, Eric and Stephen,

thanks for your insights. Only Rev this could be possible, in couple  
lines I just wrote a patch function that will pick htmltext from a  
field and do some mysterious magical procedures and convert it back  
to things I can use on my projects. I don't need to edit full html,  
just text nodes, now I can edit and my functions will convert the  
thing back to html.

just a function to strip all those tags and some functions to put the  
h2 and stuff like that back where they belong. It's now working.

Cheers
andre


On Nov 29, 2005, at 4:51 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Hi Andre,
>
> I've had to write a basic HTML editor as well for Hemingway. I find  
> you really need to use htmltext as a display engine for your own  
> html parsers/wrappers, and nothing else.
>
> -Chipp
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue Nov 29 15:44:33 2005
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 14:44:33 -0600
Subject: Problem with the correct cursor showing up
In-Reply-To: <d.51738e24.30bda2ab@aol.com>
References: <d.51738e24.30bda2ab@aol.com>
Message-ID: <438CBDB1.6090407@hyperactivesw.com>

Stgoldberg at aol.com wrote:
> I tried using   cursor ID 28 instead of "hand" but the problem persists.   

I found time to do a test. Setting the cursor to "hand" works okay for 
me in a standalone as long as I make sure to include the cursors in the 
standalone settings dialog before building. Choose "Standalone settings" 
from the File menu, uncheck the default option that automtically looks 
for resources to include, and instead manually include the ones you 
need. Make sure the "cursors" checkbox is selected, since it isn't 
checked by default. Also include any other libraries or dialogs you need 
from the two scrolling fields, then build the app. You shouldn't have 
any problems if you do it this way.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com


From wdesmet at wanadoo.nl  Tue Nov 29 16:34:05 2005
From: wdesmet at wanadoo.nl (William de Smet)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:34:05 +0100
Subject: Is it possible to random images?
Message-ID: <72EC47FE-3ABF-45D8-A806-29CE9BF84B6F@wanadoo.nl>

Hi there,

Thanks for all the help before!
Now I've got a little question about the Random function:

The following code shows a random number into a field:
on mouseUp
put random (20) into field "random"
end mouseUp

But is it possible to random images?


Thanks

William de Smet

From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Nov 29 16:40:54 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:40:54 +0100
Subject: Is it possible to random images?
In-Reply-To: <72EC47FE-3ABF-45D8-A806-29CE9BF84B6F@wanadoo.nl>
References: <72EC47FE-3ABF-45D8-A806-29CE9BF84B6F@wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <EF203883-B9C1-4CDE-A51F-9E971F4086F4@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi William,

There are many ways.
Random applies to integers and your images have many specific  
*numbers* which are integers: IDs, number, altID, etc.
For instance (just the idea):

put random(the number of images of this cd) into TChosenImage
put image TChosenImage into image "DisplayRandomImage"

Le 29 nov. 05 ? 22:34, William de Smet a ?crit :

> Hi there,
>
> Thanks for all the help before!
> Now I've got a little question about the Random function:
>
> The following code shows a random number into a field:
> on mouseUp
> put random (20) into field "random"
> end mouseUp
>
> But is it possible to random images?


Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From wdesmet at wanadoo.nl  Tue Nov 29 16:45:21 2005
From: wdesmet at wanadoo.nl (William de Smet)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:45:21 +0100
Subject: Is it possible to random images?
In-Reply-To: <EF203883-B9C1-4CDE-A51F-9E971F4086F4@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <72EC47FE-3ABF-45D8-A806-29CE9BF84B6F@wanadoo.nl>
	<EF203883-B9C1-4CDE-A51F-9E971F4086F4@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <CE16AAAF-9520-4624-AD30-9DF72D55ACCC@wanadoo.nl>

Hi Eric,

Thanks for your reply and I get the point!
I 'll start working on it tomorrow.

William

Op 29-nov-2005, om 22:40 heeft Eric Chatonet het volgende geschreven:

> Hi William,
>
> There are many ways.
> Random applies to integers and your images have many specific  
> *numbers* which are integers: IDs, number, altID, etc.
> For instance (just the idea):
>
> put random(the number of images of this cd) into TChosenImage
> put image TChosenImage into image "DisplayRandomImage"
>
> Le 29 nov. 05 ? 22:34, William de Smet a ?crit :
>
>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> Thanks for all the help before!
>> Now I've got a little question about the Random function:
>>
>> The following code shows a random number into a field:
>> on mouseUp
>> put random (20) into field "random"
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> But is it possible to random images?
>>
>
>
> Best Regards from Paris,
>
> Eric Chatonet.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> So Smart Software
>
> For institutions, companies and associations
> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Tue Nov 29 17:05:09 2005
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (graham samuel)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:05:09 +0100
Subject: Transparency and PNG format
Message-ID: <77DD2A29-2154-4323-9070-015619DA5D36@wanadoo.fr>

Folks, I've got a number of small GIFs in an app, representing human  
figures - therefore not rectangular. I managed to give each one a  
transparent background and RR honours this when I import the GIFs as  
images (i.e. the background information on the card shows up around  
the shape of the figure).

I've now started to using PNGs rather than GIFS, and I can give them  
transparent backgrounds in exactly the same way as the GIFs  
(GraphicConverter on the Mac is really good for this - a lot simpler  
than Photoshop Elements... but I digress). However when I import a  
PNG as an image, the transparency disappears and the figure therefore  
appears in a white rectangle. I can fix this with inks, but only on  
the Mac, and this app is destined for PC users mostly.

I've looked at the docs, but I can't see a way of telling RR to use  
the transparency in a PNG. I see a bit about Alpha Channels, but I  
don't know if I'm using an Alpha Channel or not, and anyway I can't  
understand how RR deals with them. I can of course convert all my  
PNGs to GIFs, but is this the only solution? (This leads me to ask if  
is there any disadvantage to using GIFs over PNGs - I kind of thought  
there was, but I'm no longer sure why).

Can anyone clarify this for me?

TIA

Graham


----------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France




From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Tue Nov 29 17:16:06 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:16:06 +0100
Subject: Transparency and PNG format
In-Reply-To: <77DD2A29-2154-4323-9070-015619DA5D36@wanadoo.fr>
References: <77DD2A29-2154-4323-9070-015619DA5D36@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <DC0C4F03-37A5-4F87-B9CA-26DC18EE3DC9@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Graham,

I use a lot of PNG in my apps, plugins and stacks.
When a *correct* PNG is imported, transparency is always there  
without any problem (I use Photoshop :-)
Then if you don't get the transparency, it does not seem to be a Rev  
problem.
A trick in addition : if you want to have very lights images, first  
you make a PNG, you install it into your stack at the right place and  
then take a screenshot, crop it into any image processor and save it  
as a compressed JPEG you will place exactly on your (JPEG too)  
background :-)
The best way to minimise *static* images in any project.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

Le 29 nov. 05 ? 23:05, graham samuel a ?crit :

> Folks, I've got a number of small GIFs in an app, representing  
> human figures - therefore not rectangular. I managed to give each  
> one a transparent background and RR honours this when I import the  
> GIFs as images (i.e. the background information on the card shows  
> up around the shape of the figure).
>
> I've now started to using PNGs rather than GIFS, and I can give  
> them transparent backgrounds in exactly the same way as the GIFs  
> (GraphicConverter on the Mac is really good for this - a lot  
> simpler than Photoshop Elements... but I digress). However when I  
> import a PNG as an image, the transparency disappears and the  
> figure therefore appears in a white rectangle. I can fix this with  
> inks, but only on the Mac, and this app is destined for PC users  
> mostly.
>
> I've looked at the docs, but I can't see a way of telling RR to use  
> the transparency in a PNG. I see a bit about Alpha Channels, but I  
> don't know if I'm using an Alpha Channel or not, and anyway I can't  
> understand how RR deals with them. I can of course convert all my  
> PNGs to GIFs, but is this the only solution? (This leads me to ask  
> if is there any disadvantage to using GIFs over PNGs - I kind of  
> thought there was, but I'm no longer sure why).

----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
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Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Nov 29 17:31:57 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 14:31:57 -0800
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bfb2252b44e6@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<a05210600bfb2252b44e6@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <438CD6DD.2060609@fourthworld.com>

David Burgun wrote:
>> I learnt Hypercard without a book,
>> and I extended my knowledge, as RR extended xTalk, in the
>> same way:
>>
>> by doing!
> 
> That's great if you have all the time in the world to "doing" it wrong 
> many times! Especially when the documentaion is just plain wrong!

As with the spelling of "documentation" in that sentence, human error 
can creep into just about anything.

While there's always room to expand on the material that's there, I 
don't recall any recent issue you've raised here in which the 
documentation was "just plain wrong".

Sure, some sections could be expanded to address a wider range of needs, 
and for the love of Koresh I'd love to see a new TOC.

But factually incorrect?  I'm sure there are errors in there, but no 
more so than with any other documentation project of such scope, and 
none that I can recall as related to the issues you've raised here recently.


A general note on learning styles:

When I first started with Rev I was made quite an arse of myself, 
ranting on the MetaCard (as it was called at the time) list about how 
everything that was different from what I already knew was wrong.  It's 
merely my good fortune that the archives of that old listserve are no 
longer available -- I was a real pain, chock full o' opinions about how 
this was crappy and that was nonsense and everything in between was just 
silly.

Fortunately Kevin Miller and Scott Raney are far more patient than I, 
and in each case they took the time to explain the "why" behind the 
issues I was having.

As I came to understand the "why" of the engine, I came to appreciate 
the thought that went into it.  Today my one of my few remaining gripes 
is that "destroyStack" is a needlessly alarming choice to describe a 
very useful and non-destructive property.  Just about everything else in 
the language ranges from "acceptable" to "pretty darn nifty" to me.

I've mentioned the tool to a number of friends over the years, and I've 
observed that most go through a learning curve similar to my own (though 
most are far more good natured about it <g>).  Transcript is a very 
different way of working, and while I feel it offers unique benefits I 
also recognize it takes a bit of time to grok its unusual nature.

In my experience as a user and a trainer, the learning curve often goes 
something like this:

   Day one:    "What the hell is going on?  Why doesn't anything work
                like I expect?  I hate this damn thing."

   Two days:   "Omigawd, the potential is incredible! If only I knew
                how to use it all..."

   Two weeks:  "After reading the language guide and trying some
                things out, I'm able to do truly productive work."

   One month:  "Now I can do productive work efficiently."

   Three months: "With the flexibility of the language and the handy
                tools in Revolution, I'm seeing slightly greater
                productivity than in my formerly-favorite tool I'd
                used for years."

   Six months: "I love this thing."

   One year:   "I love this thing like no other."


Your mileage may vary; contents may settle during shipping.
But I'd be surprised if after a few more weeks with this thing you 
didn't have a moment when you sat back and thought to yourself, "This 
Rev thang is pretty cool."

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Tue Nov 29 17:40:33 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 14:40:33 -0800
Subject: Ubuntu and sound files
In-Reply-To: <438CA755.2010608@fourthworld.com>
References: <7310975121.20051129110736@ahsoftware.net>
	<438CA755.2010608@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <9223752564.20051129144033@ahsoftware.net>

Richard-

Tuesday, November 29, 2005, 11:09:09 AM, you wrote:

> Mark Wieder wrote:

>> I finally got back to my Ubuntu box and found that I have no problem
>> at all playing .aiff files (or .wav files, for that matter) in rev
>> stacks. In fact, at the moment that's the only way I *can* play them,
>> since Ubuntu comes without builtin players for these file types.

> That's encouraging.

> Do you know offhand if it also handles AU format?

Not offhand, no, but now that I've tried it I can definitely verify
that it works fine. And doing that pointed out the builtin way to play
.au sounds. I suppose it also works with .aiff files, but I haven't
tried that way yet.

I'm liking the Ubuntu/RR combination more and more as I go along,
although I still think I'll wipe this all out someday soon and install
Kubuntu, since I really prefer the KDE shell to Gnome.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From revolution at derbrill.de  Tue Nov 29 17:45:15 2005
From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:45:15 +0100
Subject: Transparency and PNG format
In-Reply-To: <20051129210900.DCFCD82539C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <CF0BFEB2-6129-11DA-8F17-0030659A795C@derbrill.de>

Hi Graham,

Eric answered the transparency question before. There might be a 
setting in Graphic converter though. (I use Photoshop elements)

 >(This leads me to ask
 > if is there any disadvantage to using GIFs over PNGs - I kind of
 > thought there was, but I'm no longer sure why).

You might be interested in this stack:

http://www.derbrill.de/revstack/pngvsgif.rev.zip

or in the messagebox:

go stack URL "http://www.derbrill.de/revstack/pngvsgif.rev"

All the best,

Malte

-- 
ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes
http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine
http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum 



From davis.phil at comcast.net  Tue Nov 29 18:02:40 2005
From: davis.phil at comcast.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:02:40 -0800
Subject: Transparency and PNG format
In-Reply-To: <77DD2A29-2154-4323-9070-015619DA5D36@wanadoo.fr>
References: <77DD2A29-2154-4323-9070-015619DA5D36@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <438CDE10.5070608@comcast.net>

graham samuel wrote:

> (This leads me to ask if  is 
> there any disadvantage to using GIFs over PNGs - I kind of thought  
> there was, but I'm no longer sure why).

The only place I know of in our techno-universe where transparent GIFs 
are categorically better than transparent PNGs is in the IE browser - it 
doesn't support transparency in PNGs.

Phil Davis



From pevensen at siboneylg.com  Tue Nov 29 18:17:58 2005
From: pevensen at siboneylg.com (Peter T. Evensen)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 17:17:58 -0600
Subject: Transparency and PNG format
In-Reply-To: <77DD2A29-2154-4323-9070-015619DA5D36@wanadoo.fr>
References: <77DD2A29-2154-4323-9070-015619DA5D36@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20051129171531.25ba3740@exchange.slg.com>

I use transparent pngs all the time.  I think you do have to use an alpha 
channel, which Revolution just uses.

If GraphicConverter isn't creating a PNG with an alpha channel, that could 
be why they aren't showing up as transparent in Revolution.

The nice thing about alpha channels is that you can have semi-transparencies.

At 04:05 PM 11/29/2005, you wrote:
>Folks, I've got a number of small GIFs in an app, representing human
>figures - therefore not rectangular. I managed to give each one a
>transparent background and RR honours this when I import the GIFs as
>images (i.e. the background information on the card shows up around
>the shape of the figure).
>
>I've now started to using PNGs rather than GIFS, and I can give them
>transparent backgrounds in exactly the same way as the GIFs
>(GraphicConverter on the Mac is really good for this - a lot simpler
>than Photoshop Elements... but I digress). However when I import a
>PNG as an image, the transparency disappears and the figure therefore
>appears in a white rectangle. I can fix this with inks, but only on
>the Mac, and this app is destined for PC users mostly.
>
>I've looked at the docs, but I can't see a way of telling RR to use
>the transparency in a PNG. I see a bit about Alpha Channels, but I
>don't know if I'm using an Alpha Channel or not, and anyway I can't
>understand how RR deals with them. I can of course convert all my
>PNGs to GIFs, but is this the only solution? (This leads me to ask if
>is there any disadvantage to using GIFs over PNGs - I kind of thought
>there was, but I'm no longer sure why).
>
>Can anyone clarify this for me?
>
>TIA
>
>Graham
>
>
>----------------------------------------
>Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Peter T. Evensen
http://www.PetersRoadToHealth.com
24-hour recorded info hotline: 1-800-624-7671 



From jerry at daniels-mara.com  Tue Nov 29 19:36:21 2005
From: jerry at daniels-mara.com (Jerry Daniels)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:36:21 -0600
Subject: Purge Loop--Destroy Stack no working?
In-Reply-To: <2881AAF9-2587-4FA8-8890-5426368AD4F1@hindu.org>
References: <5AA49A88-7491-40DA-AF91-F7EECC3BEAAC@hindu.org>
	<4832E76C-91A3-4B72-A13C-2BDC13E67FCA@daniels-mara.com>
	<2881AAF9-2587-4FA8-8890-5426368AD4F1@hindu.org>
Message-ID: <93AE4A07-91D4-4111-8909-6EDE64944953@daniels-mara.com>

Swami,

The better place to get support would be directly with  
support at daniels-mara.com rather than a public forum. We're not on  
this list every single day.

We need to get a bit more detail on this.

Best,

Jerry

On Nov 28, 2005, at 4:52 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Aloha, Jerry:
>
> more feed back.. this problem arose today again, open stack A call  
> "transcriber.rev" close... (destroy stack set to true)  try to open  
> a different stack with the same name... still in memory, purge loop  
> started happening again..
>
> I had actually previously completed deleted Object Gadget... it is  
> not even in the gadgets folder now  as of two weeks ago..
>
> I had to disable Constellation completely to continue work.. :- 
> (  (because it is so useful...)
>
> Sivakatirswami
>
>
> On Nov 14, 2005, at 2:13 AM, Jerry Daniels wrote:
>
>> Sivakatirswami,
>>
>> I thought about your problem so more and have the following  
>> observations, questions and recommendations.
>>
>> I don't think the problem is with the release version of  
>> Constellation you are using but, it is possible that there is a  
>> problem with one of Constellation's pre-release "buddies", Object  
>> Gadget.
>>
>> Do you have Object Gadget open when this is happening? There is a  
>> known issue with Object Gadget where it verifies its list and  
>> inadvertently keeps the stacks in memory because it likes to test  
>> every object's parent stack by its long stack name to see if it  
>> exists. Please test without Object Gadget and see if it makes any  
>> difference.
>>
>> Object Gadget it not released software, and it has known issues.  
>> For this reason, I only use Object Gadget when I need it for  
>> something and keep it close if I don't need it--and I have no  
>> difficulties with it. That's also why it is discounted so that it  
>> costs about two dollars right now. Once we get Object Gadget  
>> released, this will no longer be an issue (and the discounted  
>> price will go away, too).
>>
>> Please let me know how your test without Object Gadget goes--or  
>> how you do with discretionary use of it as indicated above.
>>
>> It would seem unlikely to me that your stacks are corrupted. My  
>> experience with corrupted stacks usually means the stack will not  
>> open and if it does it appears to have extremely sluggish behavior  
>> and slows down the IDE noticeably.
>>
>> Also, all of the products we sell are pretty stingy with doling  
>> out custom properties and there are preferences to prevent them  
>> from being used at all. I don't believe custom props would cause  
>> your problem, in any case.
>>
>> There are many people (I am becoming one) who prefer to store all  
>> data outside the stack--in a text file using XML or the like. Like  
>> others, when saving on close in the IDE, if something "unexpected"  
>> happens with the IDE, it can affect the process of saving and THEN  
>> corruption can take place. I haven't had problems with explicit  
>> saving in the IDE, whereas I have had problems with the implicit  
>> save you noted in your closeStack handler.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> http://www.daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm
>> Scripts and properties in a tabbed editor!
>>
>> On Nov 13, 2005, at 10:36 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The past few days REv is repeatedly asking me if I want to purge  
>>> a stack in memory with the same name... Most of my stacks have
>>>
>>> on closestack
>>>    save this stack
>>> end close stack
>>>
>>> And for some reason, if Constellation is running, this puts me  
>>> into an infinite loop where Rev is unable to save (because there  
>>> is a stack in memory with the same name) ... I click save or  
>>> purge or cancel, it doesn't matter... the msg comes right back..
>>>
>>> if I don't boot constellation, I don't get into a loop but still  
>>> though all my stacks are set to Destroy on close, rev keeps  
>>> asking to purge a previously closed stack if I open another which  
>>> has the same name.
>>>
>>> I'm thinking something has been corrupted or a custom prop is  
>>> "stuck" somewhere that thinks these stacks are in memory when  
>>> they or not, or they are not being destroyed when they should  
>>> be... any ideas?  Rebooting Rev does not change the behavior.
>>>
>>> Sivakatirswami
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



From tkuypers at pandora.be  Tue Nov 29 20:23:10 2005
From: tkuypers at pandora.be (Ton Kuypers)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 02:23:10 +0100
Subject: Transparency and PNG format
In-Reply-To: <438CDE10.5070608@comcast.net>
References: <77DD2A29-2154-4323-9070-015619DA5D36@wanadoo.fr>
	<438CDE10.5070608@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <E5CDC4AF-D515-4EE4-92EE-850DE0C41DA3@pandora.be>


> The only place I know of in our techno-universe where transparent  
> GIFs are categorically better than transparent PNGs is in the IE  
> browser - it doesn't support transparency in PNGs.

Unless you are using Adobe GoLive CS2, which has a fix to show PNG in  
Internet Explorer...
Or use FireFox, handles transparant PNGs beautifully!

And if not, let everybody start using a Mac, no problem there as well

;-)


Ton Kuypers
Digital Media Partners bvba
Tel. +32 (0)477 / 739 530
Fax +32 (0)14 / 71 03 04
http://www.dmp-int.com




From kray at sonsothunder.com  Tue Nov 29 17:37:10 2005
From: kray at sonsothunder.com (Ken Ray)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:37:10 -0600
Subject: Transparency and PNG format
In-Reply-To: <77DD2A29-2154-4323-9070-015619DA5D36@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <BFB23436.30AAB%kray@sonsothunder.com>

On 11/29/05 4:05 PM, "graham samuel" <graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr> wrote:

> I've now started to using PNGs rather than GIFS, and I can give them
> transparent backgrounds in exactly the same way as the GIFs
> (GraphicConverter on the Mac is really good for this - a lot simpler
> than Photoshop Elements... but I digress).

That's the problem, unfortunately - you need to have a true alpha channel in
order to have the PNG be transparent. To do this in GraphicConverter takes
only one more step.

After you've used the wand tool to drop out the transparent color, go to the
Picture menu, down to Alpha Channel, and select Create Alpha/Mask Channel
>From Transparency.

You won't notice anything happen in GraphicConverter, but when you save it
out, you'll have the proper transparency in Rev/MC.

> (This leads me to ask if
> is there any disadvantage to using GIFs over PNGs - I kind of thought
> there was, but I'm no longer sure why).

Yes, with GIFs you only get 256 colors, whereas with PNGs you get 24bit
color. That's the primary reason.

Have fun,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 21:14:43 2005
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 10:14:43 +0800
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <438CA5D3.5030508@fourthworld.com>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@192.168.0.101>
	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@192.168.0.101>
	<a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@192.168.0.101>
	<D376EE6C-BA1F-45E6-97A1-45F0DDD44353@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<a05210602bfb24cec960a@192.168.0.101>
	<438CA5D3.5030508@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <f73a98160511291814u8e075cexd21385edd2689d7e@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/30/05, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
>
> There are two parts to the Rev product:  the engine and the IDE.
>
> The engine version is 2.6.6 build 152, and the Rev IDE is 2.6.1 build
> 152.  The former is obtainable with a call to "the version", and the
> latter with a call to "revAppVersion()".
>
> But just to add to the confusion. If you create a new REV stack (in IDE
2.6.1 eng 2.6.6), save it, close it, then open the .rev file in a text
editor, like BBEdit, the top will look like this:

#!/bin/sh
# MetaCard 2.4 stack
# The following is not ASCII text,
# so now would be a good time to q out of more

exec mc $0 "$@"

Some times it pays not to look;-)


From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 22:32:11 2005
From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:32:11 +0800
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <438CD6DD.2060609@fourthworld.com>
References: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<a05210600bfb2252b44e6@192.168.0.101>
	<438CD6DD.2060609@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <f73a98160511291932p1b3d0deeva2c8c003d5fd8a51@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/30/05, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
>
>
> While there's always room to expand on the material that's there, I
> don't recall any recent issue you've raised here in which the
> documentation was "just plain wrong".
>
> Sure, some sections could be expanded to address a wider range of needs,
> and for the love of Koresh I'd love to see a new TOC.
>
> But factually incorrect?
>

>From my perspective I see two areas for improvement.

That all examples actually work!

Now before you come back and ask 'give an example', I would suggest that for
99% of newbie's if they cut and paste most functions into their stacks they
wont work. For you they will because you instictively prefix the statement
with 'put' and generally postfix it with a variable to store it so it
doesn't become lost in 'it'. In my short time on this list I've seen two
gentle pointers on how to deal with functions for newbies who can't get them
to work.

For the impatient, those who haven't found this list or do not have access
to it, and those who haven't mastered the dubugger, how much hair pulling do
you factor in before you think they'll conclude - too hard.

If the documentation actually had examples that you could cut and paste into
a stack, osmosis would take care of the rest, no more posts to the list
asking something very basic. Amending the docs to include 'put' and a
sensible variable name isn't that hard.

The other area is searching the documents. All the information is very very
good, but I, and I notice alot of others in their posts, sometimes have
trouble finding it. What really irks me is when I've found the information
and a day or two later I try to go back to it and I just can't find it. I
can't remember the search or filter pattern that was 'just right'. I notice
that you include a better TOC, which is just another way to search.

I also have a problem with the TOC, although it might be my set up because I
know Xavier reported that he wasn't suffering what I do, but if I open the
documentation, click on Topics so you have the TOC in the left field, then
click on one - in this case lets say 'Custom properties, and...' it takes
around 10 seconds !!! before the right field is built, and at no time does
the cursor change to busy - it just looks like nothing is happening. For
quite a long time I was too impatient (although 10sec is too long) and would
click off else where. How many others suffer this and do not actually get
into the docs because they're just too slow.

If I'm the only one with slow access to the doc's I'd love to know how to
fix it:-)


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue Nov 29 22:34:45 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 19:34:45 -0800
Subject: Scope Problem on Standalones
In-Reply-To: <f73a98160511291814u8e075cexd21385edd2689d7e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@192.168.0.101>	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@192.168.0.101>	<a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@192.168.0.101>	<D376EE6C-BA1F-45E6-97A1-45F0DDD44353@sosmartsoftware.com>	<a05210602bfb24cec960a@192.168.0.101>	<438CA5D3.5030508@fourthworld.com>
	<f73a98160511291814u8e075cexd21385edd2689d7e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <438D1DD5.6020108@fourthworld.com>

Kay C Lan wrote:
> On 11/30/05, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> 
>>There are two parts to the Rev product:  the engine and the IDE.
>>
>>The engine version is 2.6.6 build 152, and the Rev IDE is 2.6.1 build
>>152.  The former is obtainable with a call to "the version", and the
>>latter with a call to "revAppVersion()".
>>
>>But just to add to the confusion. If you create a new REV stack (in IDE
> 
> 2.6.1 eng 2.6.6), save it, close it, then open the .rev file in a text
> editor, like BBEdit, the top will look like this:
> 
> #!/bin/sh
> # MetaCard 2.4 stack
> # The following is not ASCII text,
> # so now would be a good time to q out of more

> exec mc $0 "$@"
> 
> Some times it pays not to look;-)

Depends how much arcane trivia you enjoy.

v2.4 is the last engine version in which the file format changed, so 
that's accurate too.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 22:40:10 2005
From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 19:40:10 -0800
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <f73a98160511291932p1b3d0deeva2c8c003d5fd8a51@mail.gmail.com>
References: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<a05210600bfb2252b44e6@192.168.0.101>
	<438CD6DD.2060609@fourthworld.com>
	<f73a98160511291932p1b3d0deeva2c8c003d5fd8a51@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <70ed6b130511291940rc44a100g98af0cfc410658a@mail.gmail.com>

If you click on "Topics" and then type "How" into the Filter with: field,
you get a whole host of examples, most of which work right out of the box.

The problem is, these are really buried in the docs. They need to be
surfaced.

On 11/29/05, Kay C Lan <lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> If the documentation actually had examples that you could cut and paste
> into
> a stack, osmosis would take care of the rest, no more posts to the list
> asking something very basic. Amending the docs to include 'put' and a
> sensible variable name isn't that hard.
>
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


From hutch at recursive.ca  Tue Nov 29 23:08:10 2005
From: hutch at recursive.ca (Bob Hutchison)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:08:10 -0500
Subject: More newbie problems
Message-ID: <68AD3E36-AA4D-439E-8E84-20CA1C5F769E@recursive.ca>

Hi,

Having a blast with RunRev... in two ways at least: lots of fun, and  
shooting myself in the foot

So I made a main stack and got it working quite nicely. I've grown  
attached to it even.

Now I am coming to realise that this was something of a mistake. I  
should have made a dummy stack as the main stack and done my work in  
a substack. Next time for sure.

So I read in the documentation "Changing a stack's mainStack property  
moves it into the same file as the specified main stack. The stack  
becomes a substack of the specified mainStack."

Unless I'm doing something wrong -- and this is a distinct  
possibility -- then this isn't precisely correct. This doesn't do  
much when the stack you are trying to change the mainStack property  
of is itself a main stack. In fact it doesn't seem to do anything.

So, barring some error in what I'm trying to do, is there some other  
way to do this? I can't quite find answers in the documentation.

Can you demote a main stack?

Can you copy a main stack to a substack?

Can you move a card from one stack to another?

Can you duplicate stacks?

Can you duplicate cards?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Cheers,
Bob

----
Bob Hutchison          -- blogs at <http://www.recursive.ca/hutch/>
Recursive Design Inc.  -- <http://www.recursive.ca/>
Raconteur              -- <http://www.raconteur.info/>




From chipp at chipp.com  Tue Nov 29 23:38:15 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:38:15 -0600
Subject: More newbie problems
In-Reply-To: <68AD3E36-AA4D-439E-8E84-20CA1C5F769E@recursive.ca>
References: <68AD3E36-AA4D-439E-8E84-20CA1C5F769E@recursive.ca>
Message-ID: <438D2CB7.5060707@chipp.com>

Hi Bob,

Sure, it's easy to make a mainstack a substack of another.

Go to your stack property inspector of the main stack you wish to make a 
substack of another. Make sure you're at the 'Basic Properties' section.

There's a option button named 'mainStack'. Just click on it and select 
the new mainstack you want for this stack and it's done for you.

See below for other answers.

best,
Chipp

Bob Hutchison wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Having a blast with RunRev... in two ways at least: lots of fun, and  
> shooting myself in the foot
> 
> So I made a main stack and got it working quite nicely. I've grown  
> attached to it even.
> 
> Now I am coming to realise that this was something of a mistake. I  
> should have made a dummy stack as the main stack and done my work in  a 
> substack. Next time for sure.
> 
> So I read in the documentation "Changing a stack's mainStack property  
> moves it into the same file as the specified main stack. The stack  
> becomes a substack of the specified mainStack."
> 
> Unless I'm doing something wrong -- and this is a distinct  possibility 
> -- then this isn't precisely correct. This doesn't do  much when the 
> stack you are trying to change the mainStack property  of is itself a 
> main stack. In fact it doesn't seem to do anything.
> 
> So, barring some error in what I'm trying to do, is there some other  
> way to do this? I can't quite find answers in the documentation.
> 
> Can you demote a main stack?
> 
> Can you copy a main stack to a substack?
> 
> Can you move a card from one stack to another?

copy card 1 of stack "fred" to stack "sam"
> 
> Can you duplicate stacks?

clone stack "fred"
> 
> Can you duplicate cards?

clone card "myCard" of stack "fred"
> 
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.



From hutch at recursive.ca  Tue Nov 29 23:53:49 2005
From: hutch at recursive.ca (Bob Hutchison)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:53:49 -0500
Subject: More newbie problems
In-Reply-To: <438D2CB7.5060707@chipp.com>
References: <68AD3E36-AA4D-439E-8E84-20CA1C5F769E@recursive.ca>
	<438D2CB7.5060707@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <754B4B85-851B-46EE-A1A5-0828E895FCBF@recursive.ca>

Hi Chipp,

On Nov 29, 2005, at 11:38 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Hi Bob,
>
> Sure, it's easy to make a mainstack a substack of another.
>
> Go to your stack property inspector of the main stack you wish to  
> make a substack of another. Make sure you're at the 'Basic  
> Properties' section.
>
> There's a option button named 'mainStack'. Just click on it and  
> select the new mainstack you want for this stack and it's done for  
> you.

I've done this at least a dozen times now. I can set the mainstack  
option button to the other mainstack. If I save, it reverts back.  
Change the mainstack again, click on the other mainstack then back on  
the one I just changed and it reverts back. Basically, I can't get  
the change in mainstack to stick.

Actually, I just tried it a couple of more times. Thought I'd see  
what the application browser might tell me. It seems that I had an  
empty substack defined on the mainstack I was trying to move. Once I  
got rid of that, this worked.

OK, I'm set now. Thanks.

>
> See below for other answers.

Thanks, I'm going to have to get used to this running of scripts to  
modify things.

Cheers,
Bob

>
> best,
> Chipp
>
> Bob Hutchison wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Having a blast with RunRev... in two ways at least: lots of fun,  
>> and  shooting myself in the foot
>> So I made a main stack and got it working quite nicely. I've  
>> grown  attached to it even.
>> Now I am coming to realise that this was something of a mistake.  
>> I  should have made a dummy stack as the main stack and done my  
>> work in  a substack. Next time for sure.
>> So I read in the documentation "Changing a stack's mainStack  
>> property  moves it into the same file as the specified main stack.  
>> The stack  becomes a substack of the specified mainStack."
>> Unless I'm doing something wrong -- and this is a distinct   
>> possibility -- then this isn't precisely correct. This doesn't do   
>> much when the stack you are trying to change the mainStack  
>> property  of is itself a main stack. In fact it doesn't seem to do  
>> anything.
>> So, barring some error in what I'm trying to do, is there some  
>> other  way to do this? I can't quite find answers in the  
>> documentation.
>> Can you demote a main stack?
>> Can you copy a main stack to a substack?
>> Can you move a card from one stack to another?
>
> copy card 1 of stack "fred" to stack "sam"
>> Can you duplicate stacks?
>
> clone stack "fred"
>> Can you duplicate cards?
>
> clone card "myCard" of stack "fred"
>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

----
Bob Hutchison          -- blogs at <http://www.recursive.ca/hutch/>
Recursive Design Inc.  -- <http://www.recursive.ca/>
Raconteur              -- <http://www.raconteur.info/>




From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Nov 30 00:55:08 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:55:08 -0800
Subject: Messages in setprop...
In-Reply-To: <008601c5f4e9$9ff29640$1c037b98@p42600>
References: <008601c5f4e9$9ff29640$1c037b98@p42600>
Message-ID: <10349827418.20051129215508@ahsoftware.net>

Gilberto-

Tuesday, November 29, 2005, 5:34:20 AM, you wrote:

> I'm working in a "setprop" of the "property set", that is to say,
> group of property, and detect that I modified or set a value of a
> property of the same group or "property set", the message dont
> triggered. How I can do this message occur?

Bueno - no estoy cierto que entiendo este problema perfectamente, pero
posiblemente de este manera:

setProp MyPropSet[propName] pValue
  switch propName
  case "Prop1"
  case "Prop3"
    set the MyPropSet["Prop3"] of me to pValue
    break
  case "Prop2"
    set the MyPropSet["Prop2"] of me to pValue
    break
  default
    set the MyPropSet[propName] of me to pValue
  end switch
end MyPropSet

(y tambien desculpe - mi espanol es peor que tu ingles...)

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net




From jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu  Wed Nov 30 00:58:15 2005
From: jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu (Judy Perry)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:58:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Transparency and PNG format
In-Reply-To: <DC0C4F03-37A5-4F87-B9CA-26DC18EE3DC9@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511292157070.1841-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>

And, I might be going daft (might well be there already, for all I know),
but I have a dim recollection of Sarah having this problem iwth PNGs
prepared using GraphicConverter.

Sarah??

Judy
> Le 29 nov. 05 ? 23:05, graham samuel a ?crit :
>
> >
> > I've now started to using PNGs rather than GIFS, and I can give
> > them transparent backgrounds in exactly the same way as the GIFs
> > (GraphicConverter on the Mac is really good for this - a lot
> > simpler than Photoshop Elements... but I digress). However when I
> > import a PNG as an image, the transparency disappears and the
> > figure therefore appears in a white rectangle. I can fix this with
> > inks, but only on the Mac, and this app is destined for PC users
> > mostly.



From mwieder at ahsoftware.net  Wed Nov 30 01:03:19 2005
From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:03:19 -0800
Subject: More newbie problems
In-Reply-To: <754B4B85-851B-46EE-A1A5-0828E895FCBF@recursive.ca>
References: <68AD3E36-AA4D-439E-8E84-20CA1C5F769E@recursive.ca>
	<438D2CB7.5060707@chipp.com>
	<754B4B85-851B-46EE-A1A5-0828E895FCBF@recursive.ca>
Message-ID: <14450317783.20051129220319@ahsoftware.net>

Bob-

Tuesday, November 29, 2005, 8:53:49 PM, you wrote:

> Thanks, I'm going to have to get used to this running of scripts to
> modify things.

Or try the splash screen approach. Either check out the scripting
conference stack on standalones for an example splash screen stack or
check out the one on Chipp's web site.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwieder at ahsoftware.net



From graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr  Wed Nov 30 03:06:38 2005
From: graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr (graham samuel)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:06:38 +0100
Subject: Transparency and PNG format
Message-ID: <AD1CEA59-EA5C-432C-A781-A642F9C3A618@wanadoo.fr>

Thanks to all who replied to this, specially Ken Ray who gave me a  
quick way out of my problem and answered my other question too.  This  
is by no means the first time I've been happy to thank Ken for a  
RunRev solution. I really appreciate it.

Graham

(OT rant: I had tried the Help files in Photoshop Elements but I just  
gave up because they don't give you, AFAIK, a step-by-step guide to  
making part of an image transparent. To my mind, Photoshop has been  
so successful that it's created its own vocabulary which is hard for  
amateurs to grok, but their huge success makes them thinking they're  
speaking English: perhaps my favourite is 'Unsharp mask' which  
actually sharpens! ).


> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:37:10 -0600
> From: Ken Ray <kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Subject:
> To: Use Revolution List <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <BFB23436.30AAB%kray at sonsothunder.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"
>
> On 11/29/05 4:05 PM, "graham samuel" <graham.samuel at wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>
>
>> I've now started to using PNGs rather than GIFS, and I can give them
>> transparent backgrounds in exactly the same way as the GIFs
>> (GraphicConverter on the Mac is really good for this - a lot simpler
>> than Photoshop Elements... but I digress).
>>
>
> That's the problem, unfortunately - you need to have a true alpha  
> channel in
> order to have the PNG be transparent. To do this in  
> GraphicConverter takes
> only one more step.
>
> After you've used the wand tool to drop out the transparent color,  
> go to the
> Picture menu, down to Alpha Channel, and select Create Alpha/Mask  
> Channel
>
>> From Transparency.
>>
>
> You won't notice anything happen in GraphicConverter, but when you  
> save it
> out, you'll have the proper transparency in Rev/MC.
>
>
>> (This leads me to ask if
>> is there any disadvantage to using GIFs over PNGs - I kind of thought
>> there was, but I'm no longer sure why).
>>
>
> Yes, with GIFs you only get 256 colors, whereas with PNGs you get  
> 24bit
> color. That's the primary reason.
>
> Have fun,
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
> Email: kray at sonsothunder.com



----------------------------------------
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France




From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 05:26:20 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:26:20 +1000
Subject: Transparency and PNG format
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0511292157070.1841-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
References: <DC0C4F03-37A5-4F87-B9CA-26DC18EE3DC9@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.33.0511292157070.1841-100000@titan.ecs.fullerton.edu>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511300226y33ec9de5qcc3f3967fe83d727@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I had this problem with pictures that I converted to PNGs using
GraphicConverter, while newly created PNGs worked fine. However I
didn't know the trick that Ken has just told us all about, so I will
knwo what to do next time.

Cheers,
Sarah


On 11/30/05, Judy Perry <jperryl at ecs.fullerton.edu> wrote:
> And, I might be going daft (might well be there already, for all I know),
> but I have a dim recollection of Sarah having this problem iwth PNGs
> prepared using GraphicConverter.
>
> Sarah??

> > >
> > > I've now started to using PNGs rather than GIFS, and I can give
> > > them transparent backgrounds in exactly the same way as the GIFs
> > > (GraphicConverter on the Mac is really good for this - a lot
> > > simpler than Photoshop Elements... but I digress). However when I
> > > import a PNG as an image, the transparency disappears and the
> > > figure therefore appears in a white rectangle. I can fix this with
> > > inks, but only on the Mac, and this app is destined for PC users
> > > mostly.


From Stgoldberg at aol.com  Wed Nov 30 07:20:36 2005
From: Stgoldberg at aol.com (Stgoldberg at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 07:20:36 EST
Subject: Problem with the correct cursor showing up
Message-ID: <294.9b1cb6.30bef314@aol.com>

Thanks, Jacquie - Your solution worked perfectly.   You are the true master 
of the Standalone Settings (among other things).
Steve Goldberg
In a message dated 11/29/05 4:47:49 PM, 
use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com writes:


> 
> Stgoldberg at aol.com wrote:
> > I tried using?? cursor ID 28 instead of "hand" but the problem persists.??
> 
> I found time to do a test. Setting the cursor to "hand" works okay for
> me in a standalone as long as I make sure to include the cursors in the
> standalone settings dialog before building. Choose "Standalone settings"
> from the File menu, uncheck the default option that automtically looks
> for resources to include, and instead manually include the ones you
> need. Make sure the "cursors" checkbox is selected, since it isn't
> checked by default. Also include any other libraries or dialogs you need
> from the two scrolling fields, then build the app. You shouldn't have
> any problems if you do it this way.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay? ? ? ?? |? ?? jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software? ? ? ? ?? |? ?? http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> 



From wdesmet at wanadoo.nl  Wed Nov 30 07:27:10 2005
From: wdesmet at wanadoo.nl (William de Smet)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:27:10 +0100
Subject: Is it possible to random images?
In-Reply-To: <EF203883-B9C1-4CDE-A51F-9E971F4086F4@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <72EC47FE-3ABF-45D8-A806-29CE9BF84B6F@wanadoo.nl>
	<EF203883-B9C1-4CDE-A51F-9E971F4086F4@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <2AF3C082-CF30-4A4F-9C62-FC7111DD1539@wanadoo.nl>

Hi there,

Eric's advice did the trick but now all the images on the card are  
chosen (like the background image).
How do I set like 4 images to be chosen at random?
Been busy the whole morning but I can't figure it out.

William de Smet

Op 29-nov-2005, om 22:40 heeft Eric Chatonet het volgende geschreven:

> Hi William,
>
> There are many ways.
> Random applies to integers and your images have many specific  
> *numbers* which are integers: IDs, number, altID, etc.
> For instance (just the idea):
>
> put random(the number of images of this cd) into TChosenImage
> put image TChosenImage into image "DisplayRandomImage"
>
> Le 29 nov. 05 ? 22:34, William de Smet a ?crit :
>
>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> Thanks for all the help before!
>> Now I've got a little question about the Random function:
>>
>> The following code shows a random number into a field:
>> on mouseUp
>> put random (20) into field "random"
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> But is it possible to random images?
>>
>
>
> Best Regards from Paris,
>
> Eric Chatonet.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> So Smart Software
>
> For institutions, companies and associations
> Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
> Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch
>
> Free plugins and tutorials on my website
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
> Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
> Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
> Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov 30 07:31:35 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:31:35 +0100
Subject: Is it possible to random images?
In-Reply-To: <2AF3C082-CF30-4A4F-9C62-FC7111DD1539@wanadoo.nl>
References: <72EC47FE-3ABF-45D8-A806-29CE9BF84B6F@wanadoo.nl>
	<EF203883-B9C1-4CDE-A51F-9E971F4086F4@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<2AF3C082-CF30-4A4F-9C62-FC7111DD1539@wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <D6ACCD57-A347-41A5-9B69-DD76CFDAEC2E@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi William,

Just group the images that may be chosen :-)

put random(the number of images of grp "ImageChoice") into TChosenImage
put image TChosenImage of grp "ImageChoice" into image  
"DisplayRandomImage"

Le 30 nov. 05 ? 13:27, William de Smet a ?crit :

> Eric's advice did the trick but now all the images on the card are  
> chosen (like the background image).
> How do I set like 4 images to be chosen at random?
> Been busy the whole morning but I can't figure it out.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From wdesmet at wanadoo.nl  Wed Nov 30 07:37:43 2005
From: wdesmet at wanadoo.nl (William de Smet)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:37:43 +0100
Subject: Is it possible to random images?
In-Reply-To: <D6ACCD57-A347-41A5-9B69-DD76CFDAEC2E@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <72EC47FE-3ABF-45D8-A806-29CE9BF84B6F@wanadoo.nl>
	<EF203883-B9C1-4CDE-A51F-9E971F4086F4@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<2AF3C082-CF30-4A4F-9C62-FC7111DD1539@wanadoo.nl>
	<D6ACCD57-A347-41A5-9B69-DD76CFDAEC2E@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <70D2DB2B-9D05-4EED-855B-33717EF902A9@wanadoo.nl>

Thanks Eric,

Life is beautiful and easy... and so is RR!

William

Op 30-nov-2005, om 13:31 heeft Eric Chatonet het volgende geschreven:

> put random(the number of images of grp "ImageChoice") into  
> TChosenImage
> put image TChosenImage of grp "ImageChoice" into image  
> "DisplayRandomImage"



From hutch at recursive.ca  Wed Nov 30 07:47:15 2005
From: hutch at recursive.ca (Bob Hutchison)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 07:47:15 -0500
Subject: More newbie problems
In-Reply-To: <14450317783.20051129220319@ahsoftware.net>
References: <68AD3E36-AA4D-439E-8E84-20CA1C5F769E@recursive.ca>
	<438D2CB7.5060707@chipp.com>
	<754B4B85-851B-46EE-A1A5-0828E895FCBF@recursive.ca>
	<14450317783.20051129220319@ahsoftware.net>
Message-ID: <6FD1BE32-A279-427E-9F48-BF1CCBDD6B1E@recursive.ca>


On Nov 30, 2005, at 1:03 AM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Bob-
>
> Tuesday, November 29, 2005, 8:53:49 PM, you wrote:
>
>> Thanks, I'm going to have to get used to this running of scripts to
>> modify things.
>
> Or try the splash screen approach. Either check out the scripting
> conference stack on standalones for an example splash screen stack or
> check out the one on Chipp's web site.

Thanks Mark. At your suggestion I've started looking at the  
conferences. They are quite a resource to the community, aren't they?  
I had been avoiding those simply out of general do-not-overload-the- 
brain strategy. Probably a mistake (others new to Revolution might  
want to take a look if they haven't already).

I'll look at Chipp's site as well.

What I was getting at with that comment you quoted is what I consider  
a Good Thing.

Cheers,
Bob

>
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwieder at ahsoftware.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

----
Bob Hutchison          -- blogs at <http://www.recursive.ca/hutch/>
Recursive Design Inc.  -- <http://www.recursive.ca/>
Raconteur              -- <http://www.raconteur.info/>




From AbilityForms at aol.com  Wed Nov 30 08:14:52 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 08:14:52 EST
Subject: Substack Question
Message-ID: <e6.769b6a44.30beffcc@aol.com>

Hi Everyone,

While reading the string of comments I was interested in the newbie question 
about substacks. I'm also a newbie so I need some help in this area too.

What are the advantages of using a substack rather than just starting another 
mainstack? I use several mainstacks because if one becomes corrupted I can 
replace it easier from a backup. I realize Revolution is far more stable than 
HyperCard was, but I've learned it's always a good idea to religiously backup.

Maybe if I had some examples of how a substack is superior to another 
mainstack it would help me understand the advantage.

Joe,
Orlando, Florida


From xavier.bury at clearstream.com  Wed Nov 30 08:18:07 2005
From: xavier.bury at clearstream.com (xavier.bury at clearstream.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 14:18:07 +0100
Subject: Substack Question
In-Reply-To: <e6.769b6a44.30beffcc@aol.com>
Message-ID: <OFCD5C73B5.2825D561-ONC12570C9.0048E43B-C12570C9.0049122C@deutsche-boerse.com>

Hi Joe,

The advantage is for distribution/release  - one stack only visible to the 
user. In case you compile
though, you can no longuer modify the stack (though nothing prevents your 
application from
saving the substack as a mainstack later and modify that one). 

sorry for big sig
Xavier

use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 30/11/2005 14:14:52:

> Hi Everyone,
> 
> While reading the string of comments I was interested in the newbie 
question 
> about substacks. I'm also a newbie so I need some help in this area too.
> 
> What are the advantages of using a substack rather than just starting 
another 
> mainstack? I use several mainstacks because if one becomes corrupted I 
can 
> replace it easier from a backup. I realize Revolution is far more stable 
than 
> HyperCard was, but I've learned it's always a good idea to religiously 
backup.
> 
> Maybe if I had some examples of how a substack is superior to another 
> mainstack it would help me understand the advantage.
> 
> Joe,
> Orlando, Florida



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From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov 30 08:23:39 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 14:23:39 +0100
Subject: Substack Question
In-Reply-To: <e6.769b6a44.30beffcc@aol.com>
References: <e6.769b6a44.30beffcc@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4C316C4F-A698-4C2A-B7C3-5C42BE732976@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Joe,

Mainly :-)

1. Substacks are embedded into the same file as the main stack:  
distribution is safer (their *exact* location is known :-)
2. Substacks are loaded into memory when you open the mainstack: you  
have not to check where there are... and can refer to them without  
*precaution*.
3. All handlers (and functions) you put into the main stack script  
are available anywhere in any script of any control in the substacks:  
you don't have to repeat any code. Safer and easier to maintain.

Le 30 nov. 05 ? 14:14, AbilityForms at aol.com a ?crit :

> While reading the string of comments I was interested in the newbie  
> question
> about substacks. I'm also a newbie so I need some help in this area  
> too.
>
> What are the advantages of using a substack rather than just  
> starting another
> mainstack? I use several mainstacks because if one becomes  
> corrupted I can
> replace it easier from a backup. I realize Revolution is far more  
> stable than
> HyperCard was, but I've learned it's always a good idea to  
> religiously backup.
>
> Maybe if I had some examples of how a substack is superior to another
> mainstack it would help me understand the advantage.

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From AbilityForms at aol.com  Wed Nov 30 08:32:30 2005
From: AbilityForms at aol.com (AbilityForms at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 08:32:30 EST
Subject: substack question addition
Message-ID: <26b.10d633e.30bf03ee@aol.com>

Hi everyone,

I thought I'd mention a follow up statement. You members are so responsive 
it's amazing. The two replies so far are interesting. They don't apply to me 
though. I have no intention of distributing my work so I won't compile it into a 
stand alone. As far as not rewriting code, I keep common scripts in a "start 
using" stack that I always refer to when I open revolution. It's like the home 
stack in HyperCard.

Joe
Orlando, Florida


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Wed Nov 30 08:48:37 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:48:37 +0000
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <438CD6DD.2060609@fourthworld.com>
References: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<a05210600bfb2252b44e6@[192.168.0.101]>
	<438CD6DD.2060609@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <a05210601bfb359bd2c6a@[192.168.0.101]>

>>David Burgun wrote:
>>>>I learnt Hypercard without a book,
>>>>and I extended my knowledge, as RR extended xTalk, in the
>>>>same way:
>>>>
>>>>by doing!
>>>
>>>That's great if you have all the time in the world to "doing" it 
>>>wrong many times! Especially when the documentaion is just plain 
>>>wrong!
>>
>>As with the spelling of "documentation" in that sentence, human 
>>error can creep into just about anything.
>>
>While there's always room to expand on the material that's there, I 
>don't recall any recent issue you've raised here in which the 
>documentation was "just plain wrong".

This is from the Answer command:

The prompt is a string (or any expression that evaluates to a 
string). The dialog box expands if necessary to fit the contents.

This just doesn't happen, in many cases it just gets chopped off. 
There are other instances, but I really can't be bothered to find 
them right now.

Actually I didn't particually mean RunRev in this case, I meant any 
system. The point I was making is that with other systems there is a 
"bible" you can refer to or many other sources of information that 
allow you to find the error, for instance, I have a book on C++ that 
is factually wrong, I hit that problem, I can look at a whole host of 
other C++ books or even the "White" book to see what is *supposed* to 
happen.


RunRev is different in this respect and many times no one seems to 
actually know what is *supposed* to happen and I get a number of work 
arounds to a problem (from this list mainly) that may or may not work 
in all situations.

I was also pointing out that the general pace of software development 
has changed over the past 25 years and that back then there was time 
for much more for Trial and Error than today.

>
>Sure, some sections could be expanded to address a wider range of 
>needs, and for the love of Koresh I'd love to see a new TOC.

A book or books like Inside Mac would be just fine as far I'm 
concerned, also a book like the K&R C book which defines what is 
*supposed* to happen would be good too. Something that is the LAW and 
if the implementation differs then it's the implementation that is 
wrong, not the documentation.
>
>But factually incorrect?  I'm sure there are errors in there, but no 
>more so than with any other documentation project of such scope, and 
>none that I can recall as related to the issues you've raised here 
>recently.

There are quite a few instances that I have found  in the docs that 
are factually incorrect. This can happen I agree as with anything 
human. The thing is that in the case of the answer dialog it has been 
known about for a long time it seems. We have just had a new release 
of RunRev but the documentation was not changed. This is the problem, 
not that there are errors in the docs, just that they are not fixed 
or updated promptly either to make the code match the docs or the 
docs match the code.



My Dairy of RunRev is a lot simpler!

Day One: This is just GREAT I Love it!

Week 3 - Why are there so many silly problems with it that spoil the 
experience?

Month 18 - Why are there so many silly problems with it that spoil 
the experience?


Take Care and All the Best
Dave

From jerry at hytext.com  Wed Nov 30 09:07:05 2005
From: jerry at hytext.com (Jerry Muelver)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 08:07:05 -0600
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
References: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com><a05210600bfb2252b44e6@[192.168.0.101]><438CD6DD.2060609@fourthworld.com>
	<a05210601bfb359bd2c6a@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <000901c5f5b7$5b413eb0$0100a8c0@INSIGHT3>

From: "David Burgun"

> RunRev is different in this respect and many times no one seems to 
> actually know what is *supposed* to happen and I get a number of work 
> arounds to a problem (from this list mainly) that may or may not work in 
> all situations.

Wiki?

Dump the online docs into wiki pages, allow corrections/annotations to 
accumulate, integrate revisions for next release of docs.

Wiki access could be through registered DreamCard or Revolution IDE, 
simplifying the "qualified editor" screening process and eliminating the 
wiki-link spammers and graffiti artists.

---- Jerry Muelver
---- "Wiki" is the answer. What was the question, again? 



From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Nov 30 09:21:01 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 08:21:01 -0600
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <a05210601bfb359bd2c6a@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>	<a05210600bfb2252b44e6@[192.168.0.101]>	<438CD6DD.2060609@fourthworld.com>
	<a05210601bfb359bd2c6a@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <438DB54D.6040306@chipp.com>

David Burgun wrote:

> This is from the Answer command:
> 
> The prompt is a string (or any expression that evaluates to a string). 
> The dialog box expands if necessary to fit the contents.
> 
> This just doesn't happen, in many cases it just gets chopped off. There 
> are other instances, but I really can't be bothered to find them right now.

> 
> RunRev is different in this respect and many times no one seems to 
> actually know what is *supposed* to happen and I get a number of work 
> arounds to a problem (from this list mainly) that may or may not work in 
> all situations.
> 
> The 
> thing is that in the case of the answer dialog it has been known about 
> for a long time it seems. We have just had a new release of RunRev but 
> the documentation was not changed. This is the problem, not that there 
> are errors in the docs, just that they are not fixed or updated promptly 
> either to make the code match the docs or the docs match the code.

David,

As I mentioned earlier, prior to 2.6 the dialog box *did* expand both 
it's width and height as it says in the docs. But for HIG compliance 
reasons, RR decided to limit the dialog box to expand a maximum fixed 
width and thus introduced the bug you have discovered. In fact the basic 
dialog box still does expand it's height to fit the contents (up to a 
point, then it creates a scrolling field), so the docs are correct in 
that instance.

Simply applying my patch will fix the problem you encountered. I'm sure 
the patch will be included in the next rev of Rev.

I'm sorry it's so frustrating for you. Come to think of it, it was 
somewhat frustrating for me a few years back when I started. I spent a 
lot of time reading the list archives, and purchased all the docs 
available and read them. Still, it _was easier_ than learning ASP, ADO, 
SQL, ODBC, VBscript, PHP, stored procedures, Javascript, DHTML and the 
host of other technologies one has to wade through to just put up a 
simple web app.

-Chipp



From richmond at mail.maclaunch.com  Wed Nov 30 09:14:35 2005
From: richmond at mail.maclaunch.com (Mathewson)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:14:35 -0500
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
Message-ID: <web-339893850@mail.maclaunch.com>

I am not so psychologically naive to believe that everybody
will learn xTalk the way I did - and will not have the
luxury of very well paid half-time jobs so that they have
the time to devote to learning it the way I have done.

It is indeed true that the RR documentation is not
comparable with all the books on the market for (say)
flipping Visual Basic (for 'flipping' insert your favourite
B-word). Arguably some programming RADs are almost
over-documented.

An erstwhile employer bought me the printed version of the
RR 1.1.1 documentation - before either he or I had realised
that it was JUST a printout of the online docs. 

Maybe I am the one that is naive - but when I was in
Illinois and unpacked my Mac LC III from Montgomery Ward is
contained Hypercard (and no manual) and I just dived on in
and got on with it: after all, it was such a breathe of
fresh air after all those command-line fossils - and the
GUI - well . . .  It seemed at the time (and, I suppose it
should still) that the underlying ZEITGEIST of Hypercard
(read RR/MC) was that a manual should not be necessary.

If somebody really feels a desperate urge (oh, dear) for an
entry-level book and is prepared to sponsor me to the tune
of some appropriate figure for a year I could probably
"knock one together". However, "knock one together" is
exactly what I would do (maybe I shouldn't give away trade
secrets ???) by plundering Danny Goodman's Hypercard book,
the RR online documentation and a fairly goofy 'Intro to
VB' book I, unfortunately was required to buy as part of my
joke MSc course. The other limiting factor about any
'text-book' I wrote on RR/MC would be that it would,
obviously, reflect my approach to programming, which might
not be to very many people's tastes.

Don't all rush at once to pay me good money for a patchwork
quilt!

I have not seen Dan Shafer's book; but if his sense of
humour is anything to go on I would try that one first.

I would also suggest that any would-be users of RR go round
to their local library (in English-speaking countries) and
borrow Goodman's book - a bit over-prolix for my taste -
but good for dipping into and getting the feel of what
Hypercard WAS, and what RR is MORE THAN.

Ultimately my feeling is that RR/MC is now something that
has 2 levels: 

1. the heir of Hypercard: an approachable, Object-based RAD
for the 'Home and Teacher' crowd.

2. a sophisticated programming language that is in the
process of getting a long way away from Hypercard.

If this is true (waiting for feedback, abuse, so on - Take
the Hint) there certainly is a need for an in-depth book
for #2 - and, just possibly, a 'Content Delivery and
Reinforcement Programming' book for #1. I, personally have
my doubts about whether #1 would sell.

sincerely, Richmond


__________________________________________________
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
_______________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Nov 30 09:37:03 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 08:37:03 -0600
Subject: Substack Question
In-Reply-To: <e6.769b6a44.30beffcc@aol.com>
References: <e6.769b6a44.30beffcc@aol.com>
Message-ID: <438DB90F.5090807@chipp.com>



AbilityForms at aol.com wrote:

> What are the advantages of using a substack rather than just starting another 
> mainstack? I use several mainstacks because if one becomes corrupted I can 
> replace it easier from a backup. 

Joe,

Unlike HyperCard, the Rev engine loads full stacks into memory. Because 
of this, corruption is extremely rare. In fact, in all my years of 
programming RR, I've yet to encounter a single corrupted stack.

Including substacks can be a great way to archive your project as well. 
When you save a substack, it saves not only the mainstack, but also all 
the other substacks as well.

I like to keep project specific dialogs as substacks of a mainstack. 
But, like you, general library stuff typically goes in it's own mainstack.

Also, if you're worried about backups, you might try my altArchive 
plugin, it's used by many in this list. It saves your stack and creates 
a serialized backup each time it's button is pressed.

Along with other plugins, it's free and can be found at:
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altPluginCover/about.htm

best,

Chipp



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov 30 09:46:56 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:46:56 +0100
Subject: Substack Question
In-Reply-To: <438DB90F.5090807@chipp.com>
References: <e6.769b6a44.30beffcc@aol.com> <438DB90F.5090807@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <7FE489E5-1EC9-47FB-9EB5-6A7E8D4C2811@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Joe,

Le 30 nov. 05 ? 15:37, Chipp Walters a ?crit :

> Also, if you're worried about backups, you might try my altArchive  
> plugin, it's used by many in this list. It saves your stack and  
> creates a serialized backup each time it's button is pressed.

Great plugin.
Lazy or absent-minded people might be interested, as many in this  
list ;-) in my Backups Picker plugin that can entirely automate the  
process (specify a delay, how many backups keep, etc)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov 30 09:48:18 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:48:18 +0100
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <a05210601bfb359bd2c6a@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<a05210600bfb2252b44e6@[192.168.0.101]>
	<438CD6DD.2060609@fourthworld.com>
	<a05210601bfb359bd2c6a@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <3F01835D-33DA-495D-86A6-A32B167D2960@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Dave,

Do you know what kind of book would represent the docs?
In front of me are 2 A4 books (I need my glasses to read them :-)  
which were sent to me by Runrev with Rev Enterprise 2.0.
The first one (User Guide) is 370 pages and the other (Transcript  
Language Reference) is 570 pages...
I think that maintaining the docs is a hard work: you could have some  
good surprise with the Rev next version :-)

Le 30 nov. 05 ? 14:48, David Burgun a ?crit :

> There are quite a few instances that I have found  in the docs that  
> are factually incorrect. This can happen I agree as with anything  
> human. The thing is that in the case of the answer dialog it has  
> been known about for a long time it seems. We have just had a new  
> release of RunRev but the documentation was not changed. This is  
> the problem, not that there are errors in the docs, just that they  
> are not fixed or updated promptly either to make the code match the  
> docs or the docs match the code.


Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Wed Nov 30 09:57:35 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 14:57:35 +0000
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <438DB54D.6040306@chipp.com>
References: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<a05210600bfb2252b44e6@[192.168.0.101]>
	<438CD6DD.2060609@fourthworld.com>
	<a05210601bfb359bd2c6a@[192.168.0.101]> <438DB54D.6040306@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <a05210603bfb36994e550@[192.168.0.101]>

>David Burgun wrote:
>
>>This is from the Answer command:
>>
>>The prompt is a string (or any expression that evaluates to a 
>>string). The dialog box expands if necessary to fit the contents.
>>
>>This just doesn't happen, in many cases it just gets chopped off. 
>>There are other instances, but I really can't be bothered to find 
>>them right now.
>
>>
>>RunRev is different in this respect and many times no one seems to 
>>actually know what is *supposed* to happen and I get a number of 
>>work arounds to a problem (from this list mainly) that may or may 
>>not work in all situations.
>>
>>The thing is that in the case of the answer dialog it has been 
>>known about for a long time it seems. We have just had a new 
>>release of RunRev but the documentation was not changed. This is 
>>the problem, not that there are errors in the docs, just that they 
>>are not fixed or updated promptly either to make the code match the 
>>docs or the docs match the code.
>David,
>
>As I mentioned earlier, prior to 2.6 the dialog box *did* expand 
>both it's width and height as it says in the docs. But for HIG 
>compliance reasons, RR decided to limit the dialog box to expand a 
>maximum fixed width and thus introduced the bug you have discovered. 
>In fact the basic dialog box still does expand it's height to fit 
>the contents (up to a point, then it creates a scrolling field), so 
>the docs are correct in that instance.
>
>Simply applying my patch will fix the problem you encountered. I'm 
>sure the patch will be included in the next rev of Rev.


Ok, I understand the reasons why it happened and I have your patch 
and I do hope that it is rolled into the next release.

BTW, Thanks for doing that patch! It was really good of you, this one 
of the really great things about RunRev, the abilty to patch like 
that!

>
>I'm sorry it's so frustrating for you. Come to think of it, it was 
>somewhat frustrating for me a few years back when I started. I spent 
>a lot of time reading the list archives, and purchased all the docs 
>available and read them. Still, it _was easier_ than learning ASP, 
>ADO, SQL, ODBC, VBscript, PHP, stored procedures, Javascript, DHTML 
>and the host of other technologies one has to wade through to just 
>put up a simple web app.

This one really was frustrating to be honest, I placed the answer 
dialogs to find a bug and the Answer problem just threw me!

The other problem is that I had another problem with a bogus group 
causing the menuBar to stop working, since this was the same Stack, 
you can't help thinking that the problem *might* be caused by 
something bogus in the stack. Then you waste time looking for that!

Anyway, all resolved now!

And I totally agree RunRev is much easier to learn than the languages 
you mention above!

All the Best
Dave


From 3mcgrath at adelphia.net  Wed Nov 30 09:57:48 2005
From: 3mcgrath at adelphia.net (Thomas McGrath III)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:57:48 -0500
Subject: Transparency and PNG format
In-Reply-To: <77DD2A29-2154-4323-9070-015619DA5D36@wanadoo.fr>
References: <77DD2A29-2154-4323-9070-015619DA5D36@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <68B97297-DC38-4195-9C75-68FDC8998554@adelphia.net>

Graham,

PNGs support transparency as well as not. They are IMO the best for  
lossless compression. GIFs are good for animation.

I use PNGs all of the time. I use Photoshop (not elements) and when I  
save a png I delete my background and make sure the BG is transparent  
(with little checker boxes in PS) But If I 'flatten' the image it  
takes away the transparency and instead if I flatten visible layers  
(Do not include the BG) then delete the BG it always works perfectly.  
That is the way I do it. I am not sure about GC since I don't use  
that anymore.

This is not a limitation but rather a feature of PNGs that you can do  
both. Rev respects which ever way you saved the file.


Tom

On Nov 29, 2005, at 5:05 PM, graham samuel wrote:

> Folks, I've got a number of small GIFs in an app, representing  
> human figures - therefore not rectangular. I managed to give each  
> one a transparent background and RR honours this when I import the  
> GIFs as images (i.e. the background information on the card shows  
> up around the shape of the figure).
>
> I've now started to using PNGs rather than GIFS, and I can give  
> them transparent backgrounds in exactly the same way as the GIFs  
> (GraphicConverter on the Mac is really good for this - a lot  
> simpler than Photoshop Elements... but I digress). However when I  
> import a PNG as an image, the transparency disappears and the  
> figure therefore appears in a white rectangle. I can fix this with  
> inks, but only on the Mac, and this app is destined for PC users  
> mostly.
>
> I've looked at the docs, but I can't see a way of telling RR to use  
> the transparency in a PNG. I see a bit about Alpha Channels, but I  
> don't know if I'm using an Alpha Channel or not, and anyway I can't  
> understand how RR deals with them. I can of course convert all my  
> PNGs to GIFs, but is this the only solution? (This leads me to ask  
> if is there any disadvantage to using GIFs over PNGs - I kind of  
> thought there was, but I'm no longer sure why).
>
> Can anyone clarify this for me?
>
> TIA
>
> Graham
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
> Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Wed Nov 30 10:14:18 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:14:18 +0000
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <3F01835D-33DA-495D-86A6-A32B167D2960@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<a05210600bfb2252b44e6@[192.168.0.101]>
	<438CD6DD.2060609@fourthworld.com>
	<a05210601bfb359bd2c6a@[192.168.0.101]>
	<3F01835D-33DA-495D-86A6-A32B167D2960@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <a05210604bfb36e971289@[192.168.0.101]>

>Hi Dave,
>
>Do you know what kind of book would represent the docs?
>In front of me are 2 A4 books (I need my glasses to read them :-) 
>which were sent to me by Runrev with Rev Enterprise 2.0.
>The first one (User Guide) is 370 pages and the other (Transcript 
>Language Reference) is 570 pages...
>I think that maintaining the docs is a hard work: you could have 
>some good surprise with the Rev next version :-)

Have you seen the Apple Inside Mac Books?

It must be as hard or harder to maintain the online docs that 
seperate PDF files.

If they made say broke it down into (say) 7 books, it shouldn't be so 
hard to do. And as long as the latest updates were available online. 
I am not necessarily talking about a printed books (although that 
woukd be nice!), downloadable PDFs would be just great.

For instance, for RunRev Version 3, wouldn't it be nice is the books 
for it came out way ahead of any code being produced. The docs could 
then be proof read by people on this list and as many errors etc. 
fixed.

This would become the bible and could not be changed without RFCs 
like the internet committee.

The implementation would then come from this bible and anything that 
differed from the bible would be considered a bug and fixed, unless 
an RFC is raised and passed.

Of course this could/would mean that creativity is stifled in terms 
of adding new features, however this need not be the case. As long as 
the Standard RunRev 3 "Bible" was left as defined, there could be 
extensions that added to the language, similar to the way in which 
#pragma's work in C/C++, adding to the standard , but never actually 
taking the "standard" away.

Eventually these extensions would either die out or be adopted back 
in the standard on the next major revision.

I really do think that something like this just has to be done if 
RunRev is to really make it into the mainstream.

All the Best
Dave


From gefisher at mac.com  Wed Nov 30 10:26:43 2005
From: gefisher at mac.com (Glenn E. Fisher)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:26:43 -0600
Subject: Transparency and PNG format
Message-ID: <74f3c34cb24297b1d19a8e306be30b52@mac.com>

Graham,
On November 29, 2005 4:05:09 PM CST you wrote:
> (GraphicConverter on the Mac is really good for this - a lot simpler 
> than Photoshop Elements... but I digress). However when I import a PNG 
> as an image, the transparency disappears and the figure therefore 
> appears in a white rectangle.

Here's how I create an alpha channel using GraphicConverter.  Maybe 
this will help.

To add an alpha channel to an image file using GraphicConverter.

1) Open the file with GraphicConverter.

2) Do a "Save As" under the "File" menu and select "PNG" for the output 
file type.
I usually select another output folder to hold my converted images.

3) Select "Select Picture Content" under the Edit menu.

4) Select "Copy>" and "Copy" under the Edit menu.

5) Select "Add Alpha/Mask Channel" under the "Effect" menu.

6) Select "Show Alpha/Mask Channel" under the "Effect" menu.

7) Select "Paste>" and "Paste" under the "Edit" menu.
This will paste a grey scale of your image into the alpha channel.

8) Select "Threshold..." under the "Effect" menu and adjust the level 
until you get a reasonable black and white mask.
I sometimes have to use the eraser tool to remove some left over areas 
that I do not want in the mask.

9) Depending upon the image, you may need to select "Invert" under the 
"Picture" menu to get the right mask.
You can change it with invert later if it diplays wrong.

10) Select "Hide Alpha/Mack Channel" under the "Effect" menu.

11) Select "Save" under the "File" menu.

HTH,
Glenn
--
Glenn E. Fisher	University of Houston - Retired
22402 Diane Dr.	Spring, Tx 77373
gfisher4 at houston.rr.com 	http://www.uh.edu/~fisher
http://home.houston.rr.com/thegefishers/
http://homepage.mac.com/gefisher


From eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com  Wed Nov 30 10:27:23 2005
From: eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com (Eric Chatonet)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:27:23 +0100
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <a05210604bfb36e971289@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<a05210600bfb2252b44e6@[192.168.0.101]>
	<438CD6DD.2060609@fourthworld.com>
	<a05210601bfb359bd2c6a@[192.168.0.101]>
	<3F01835D-33DA-495D-86A6-A32B167D2960@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<a05210604bfb36e971289@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <220A2E2C-37C7-4BDD-A5F6-CCDCBBEC5917@sosmartsoftware.com>

Hi Dave,

Le 30 nov. 05 ? 16:14, David Burgun a ?crit :

>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> Do you know what kind of book would represent the docs?
>> In front of me are 2 A4 books (I need my glasses to read them :-)  
>> which were sent to me by Runrev with Rev Enterprise 2.0.
>> The first one (User Guide) is 370 pages and the other (Transcript  
>> Language Reference) is 570 pages...
>> I think that maintaining the docs is a hard work: you could have  
>> some good surprise with the Rev next version :-)
>
> Have you seen the Apple Inside Mac Books?

In front of me too :-)
But it's difficult to compare books coming from a more than 20 years  
company counting several thousands of "employees" and Runrev :-)
May be one day?

> It must be as hard or harder to maintain the online docs that  
> seperate PDF files.

The docs are stored into XML files (about 1740 for the dictionnary,  
500 for the faq, etc.).
Data are of course not in the stack. So maintenance should be appear  
easy...
Have a look in the components/help folder.

> If they made say broke it down into (say) 7 books, it shouldn't be  
> so hard to do. And as long as the latest updates were available  
> online. I am not necessarily talking about a printed books  
> (although that woukd be nice!), downloadable PDFs would be just great.
>
> For instance, for RunRev Version 3, wouldn't it be nice is the  
> books for it came out way ahead of any code being produced. The  
> docs could then be proof read by people on this list and as many  
> errors etc. fixed.

This would mean that you should have to be a beta tester too: don't  
you have enough issues with released versions?
If I understand correctly :-)

> This would become the bible and could not be changed without RFCs  
> like the internet committee.
>
> The implementation would then come from this bible and anything  
> that differed from the bible would be considered a bug and fixed,  
> unless an RFC is raised and passed.
>
> Of course this could/would mean that creativity is stifled in terms  
> of adding new features, however this need not be the case. As long  
> as the Standard RunRev 3 "Bible" was left as defined, there could  
> be extensions that added to the language, similar to the way in  
> which #pragma's work in C/C++, adding to the standard , but never  
> actually taking the "standard" away.
>
> Eventually these extensions would either die out or be adopted back  
> in the standard on the next major revision.
>
> I really do think that something like this just has to be done if  
> RunRev is to really make it into the mainstream.

Something like that will happen for sure but needs a bigger community  
first: so, stay with us :-)

Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website
----------------------------------------------------------------
Web site        http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email        eric.chatonet at sosmartsoftware.com/
Phone        33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile        33 (0)6 20 74 50 86
----------------------------------------------------------------



From sunshine at public.kherson.ua  Wed Nov 30 10:37:15 2005
From: sunshine at public.kherson.ua (Ruslan Zasukhin)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:37:15 +0200
Subject: SQL question -- TIP on Valentina SQL
In-Reply-To: <561316449.20051130172356@public.kherson.ua>
Message-ID: <BFB393CB.44288%sunshine@public.kherson.ua>

On 11/30/05 5:23 PM, "Ivan Smahin" <IvanSmahin at public.kherson.ua> wrote:

> Hello Florian,
> 
> Tuesday, November 29, 2005, 9:33:22 PM, you wrote:
> 
>> Hi all!
>> 
>> Say I have two tables:
>> 
>> TABLE CUSTOMER with fields ID,NAME,ADRESS
>> 
>> And
>> 
>> TABLE PAYBACKCARD with fields CUSTOMER_ID,ID,CARDNUMBER
>> 
>> If I search for customers with cards, I do "SELECT * FROM
>> CUSTOMER,PAYBACKCARD WHERE CUSTOMER.ID=PAYBACKCARD.CUSTOMER_ID"
>> 
>> Fine. But now I want to find all customers WITHOUT card. How can I do
>> this?
>> In this case there is no link between the two tables, I need
>>   "SELECT * FROM CUSTOMER WHERE there is no link between the tables..."

> There is at least 2 ways.
> 
> 1. SELECT * FROM t1 WHERE t1.id NOT IN ( SELECT RecID FROM T1,T2 ...)
> 
> 2. SELECT * FROM t1
>    EXCEPT
>    SELECT RecID FROM T1,T2 ...
> 
> Also. You can consider to have a link between tables.
> So you will get a lot of link-specific opportunities.

Florian, 

It is not clear from your letter if you have FOREIGN KEY for this table.
IF you have it, then you have LINK from Valentina point of view.

And then wow, you can use MUCH MORE effective SQL than above 2 standard
ways:

> 1. SELECT * FROM t1 WHERE COUNT_LINKED(t1, LNK_t1_t2) = 0

Right.
 
You can see that in this case Valentina do not need do JOIN and other hard
operations. Valentina will just use link. This is much faster.


> 2. SELECT * FROM t1 WHERE t1->CUSTOMER_ID is NULL

Ivan, this query will require jumps to second table, so it is not so
effective.


-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]




From rcozens at pon.net  Wed Nov 30 11:05:36 2005
From: rcozens at pon.net (Rob Cozens)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 08:05:36 -0800
Subject: Rev stack format: [was Scope Problem on Standalones]
In-Reply-To: <438D1DD5.6020108@fourthworld.com>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@192.168.0.101>
	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@192.168.0.101>
	<a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@192.168.0.101>
	<D376EE6C-BA1F-45E6-97A1-45F0DDD44353@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<a05210602bfb24cec960a@192.168.0.101>
	<438CA5D3.5030508@fourthworld.com>
	<f73a98160511291814u8e075cexd21385edd2689d7e@mail.gmail.com>
	<438D1DD5.6020108@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.10.1.20051130074923.019e6440@pon.net>

Richard, et al:

>v2.4 is the last engine version in which the file format changed

Could you please put that in perspective of Rev releases?

I just moved from v2.1.2 on MacOS X to v2.6.1 on Windows XP.  At 
least 60% of my stacks will not open in 2.6.1 (either "There was a 
problem opening that stack" [sometimes without the "OK" button being 
displayed] or I get an answer dialog asking if I want to change 
license terms [which never shows response buttons]).

I looked through the documentation for info on stack format changes 
and found nothing.

Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
  Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

  from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) 



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Wed Nov 30 11:12:38 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:12:38 +0000
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <220A2E2C-37C7-4BDD-A5F6-CCDCBBEC5917@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <web-339725434@mail.maclaunch.com>
	<a05210600bfb2252b44e6@[192.168.0.101]>
	<438CD6DD.2060609@fourthworld.com>
	<a05210601bfb359bd2c6a@[192.168.0.101]>
	<3F01835D-33DA-495D-86A6-A32B167D2960@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<a05210604bfb36e971289@[192.168.0.101]>
	<220A2E2C-37C7-4BDD-A5F6-CCDCBBEC5917@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <a05210600bfb37ac9340b@[192.168.0.101]>

>Hi Dave,
>
>Le 30 nov. 05 ? 16:14, David Burgun a ?crit :
>
>>>Hi Dave,
>>>
>>>Do you know what kind of book would represent the docs?
>>>In front of me are 2 A4 books (I need my glasses to read them :-) 
>>>which were sent to me by Runrev with Rev Enterprise 2.0.
>>>The first one (User Guide) is 370 pages and the other (Transcript 
>>>Language Reference) is 570 pages...
>>>I think that maintaining the docs is a hard work: you could have 
>>>some good surprise with the Rev next version :-)
>>
>>Have you seen the Apple Inside Mac Books?
>
>In front of me too :-)
>But it's difficult to compare books coming from a more than 20 years 
>company counting several thousands of "employees" and Runrev :-)
>May be one day?

Yes, I agree, but then this isn't as big as Apple/Mac. It's 
equivilent to say AppleScript, QuickTime and the FIle System. As I 
said, I reckon it could be split into somewhere between 5 and 10 
books.

>
>>It must be as hard or harder to maintain the online docs that 
>>seperate PDF files.
>
>The docs are stored into XML files (about 1740 for the dictionnary, 
>500 for the faq, etc.).
>Data are of course not in the stack. So maintenance should be appear easy...
>Have a look in the components/help folder.
>
>>If they made say broke it down into (say) 7 books, it shouldn't be 
>>so hard to do. And as long as the latest updates were available 
>>online. I am not necessarily talking about a printed books 
>>(although that woukd be nice!), downloadable PDFs would be just 
>>great.
>>
>>For instance, for RunRev Version 3, wouldn't it be nice is the 
>>books for it came out way ahead of any code being produced. The 
>>docs could then be proof read by people on this list and as many 
>>errors etc. fixed.


>
>This would mean that you should have to be a beta tester too: don't 
>you have enough issues with released versions?
>If I understand correctly :-)

That would be a good thing! Beta testing is just fine, yes the 
"Bible" should go through a similar process too.

I'm not sure what you mean biut issues with released versions? The 
only thing I have problems with is new features being added when bugs 
that have been there for a long time are not fixed.
>
>>This would become the bible and could not be changed without RFCs 
>>like the internet committee.
>>
>>The implementation would then come from this bible and anything 
>>that differed from the bible would be considered a bug and fixed, 
>>unless an RFC is raised and passed.
>>
>>Of course this could/would mean that creativity is stifled in terms 
>>of adding new features, however this need not be the case. As long 
>>as the Standard RunRev 3 "Bible" was left as defined, there could 
>>be extensions that added to the language, similar to the way in 
>>which #pragma's work in C/C++, adding to the standard , but never 
>>actually taking the "standard" away.
>>
>>Eventually these extensions would either die out or be adopted back 
>>in the standard on the next major revision.
>>
>>I really do think that something like this just has to be done if 
>>RunRev is to really make it into the mainstream.
>
>Something like that will happen for sure but needs a bigger 
>community first: so, stay with us :-)

Well, to me this is a chicken and egg situation, it can't get bigger 
til the above is done and that can't be done til it gets bigger.

What it needs is some investment! How much do people on the list 
think it would take in terms of money to put this into place? I'd be 
happy to cough up $100 or so if I thought the above would be done. 
This would be credited back to to those who contribute in terms of 
free updates to the docs and (maybe) free renewal of license fees.

(I've already spent far more than that in terms of wasted time!)

Anything just to move this forward, it's been hanging around in the 
slow lane for too long. If something isn't done soon a similar tool 
will come along and wipe it out.

I know some (if not most) of you on this list have had past 
experience with MC and it's kin, but I haven't and to be honest I 
have no loyalty in terms of history to motivate me (unlike say Apple 
or the Mac Plaftform), if something like rev came along, even if it 
only had 75% of what RunRev has now but all the above was 
implemented, I'd jump boat. Since I would really have more to put my 
faith in, in terms of getting to a mainstream product.

Having said that, I suppose I do have *some* loyality to RunRev Ltd., 
since I admire (mostly) what they have acheived so far. I have also 
worked a founder member of a number of companies and know all about 
the growing pains and not wanting to let go of the "baby". However, 
unless this product is allowed to become an adult, it's gonna be 
hanging round in pool rooms til time for retirement!!!

All the Best
Dave


From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Wed Nov 30 11:16:48 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:16:48 +0000
Subject: More newbie problems
In-Reply-To: <68AD3E36-AA4D-439E-8E84-20CA1C5F769E@recursive.ca>
References: <68AD3E36-AA4D-439E-8E84-20CA1C5F769E@recursive.ca>
Message-ID: <a05210600bfb356215343@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

I know exacctly what you are feeling - I had the same experience 
about 18 months ago! Here's what I have found is the best way to do 
this - at least for me!

Instead of using the MainStack/Substacks all in one file approach, 
I've found is it better to made each Main Window (either real or 
dummy) a stack in it's own right. In my system I have a folder 
structure as so:

...BaseFolder/ProjectName/StartUp.rev  <-- Just contains a splash 
screen, you don't have to do anything here if you dont want to, it's 
really just a place holder to build a Standalone App from.

..BaseFolder/ProjectName/Runtime/Stacks/GlobalStack.rev  <-- is a 
Dummy (invisible stack) that just holds functions that can be used by 
any other stack or project - a UtilityStack if you like.

..BaseFolder/ProjectName/Runtime/Stacks/MainMenu.rev   <-- Holds the 
Default Menu Bar for the App

..BaseFolder/ProjectName/Runtime/Stacks/AppMain.rev      <-- This is 
your Main App window (if you have one)

..BaseFolder/ProjectName/Runtime/Stacks/AppPrefs.rev     <-- 
Preferences Window for the App

..BaseFolder/ProjectName/Runtime/Stacks/AppAbout.rev     <-- About 
Box for the App

..BaseFolder/ProjectName/Runtime/Stacks/Whatever.rev    <-- Any other 
windows you need in your App


..BaseFolder/ProjectName/Runtime/Images/AppSplashScreen.jpg  <-- Put 
any images you need in here

..BaseFolder/ProjectName/Runtime/Externals/ 
<-- Put the External Commands for the App here

..BaseFolder/ProjectName/Runtime/Resources 
<-- Put Language Localization files here

I find this arrangement much better for the following reasons:

1.  If a Stack gets corrupted, you only lose that stack, not everything!!!

2.  Much easier to Manage in Terms of Source Code

3.  Much more flexible since you can just drop a new .rev file with 
the same name into the stacks folder and change the behavour of that 
window.

4.  You can change the order of the linkage really easily.

5.  You can Reuse Stacks/Windows in other Projects/Applications much 
more easily.

I have also implemented a fairly loose framework which makes it much 
easier to build a new window/stack and it debug existing windows.

If you have questions about the above or would like to know more 
about how I go about bulding a new App in RunRev, I would be happy to 
share what I have learned, just drop me a private email and we can 
take it from there.

All the Best
Dave

>Hi,
>
>Having a blast with RunRev... in two ways at least: lots of fun, and 
>shooting myself in the foot
>
>So I made a main stack and got it working quite nicely. I've grown 
>attached to it even.
>
>Now I am coming to realise that this was something of a mistake. I 
>should have made a dummy stack as the main stack and done my work in 
>a substack. Next time for sure.
>
>So I read in the documentation "Changing a stack's mainStack 
>property moves it into the same file as the specified main stack. 
>The stack becomes a substack of the specified mainStack."
>
>Unless I'm doing something wrong -- and this is a distinct 
>possibility -- then this isn't precisely correct. This doesn't do 
>much when the stack you are trying to change the mainStack property 
>of is itself a main stack. In fact it doesn't seem to do anything.
>
>So, barring some error in what I'm trying to do, is there some other 
>way to do this? I can't quite find answers in the documentation.
>
>Can you demote a main stack?
>
>Can you copy a main stack to a substack?
>
>Can you move a card from one stack to another?
>
>Can you duplicate stacks?
>
>Can you duplicate cards?
>
>Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
>
>Cheers,
>Bob
>
>----
>Bob Hutchison          -- blogs at <http://www.recursive.ca/hutch/>
>Recursive Design Inc.  -- <http://www.recursive.ca/>
>Raconteur              -- <http://www.raconteur.info/>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>use-revolution mailing list
>use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>subscription preferences:
>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From dburgun at dsl.pipex.com  Wed Nov 30 11:45:26 2005
From: dburgun at dsl.pipex.com (David Burgun)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:45:26 +0000
Subject: Front Stack/Window???
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.10.1.20051130074923.019e6440@pon.net>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@192.168.0.101>
	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@192.168.0.101>
	<a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@192.168.0.101>
	<D376EE6C-BA1F-45E6-97A1-45F0DDD44353@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<a05210602bfb24cec960a@192.168.0.101>	<438CA5D3.5030508@fourthworld.com>
	<f73a98160511291814u8e075cexd21385edd2689d7e@mail.gmail.com>
	<438D1DD5.6020108@fourthworld.com>
	<7.0.0.10.1.20051130074923.019e6440@pon.net>
Message-ID: <a05210601bfb3866ff11a@[192.168.0.101]>

Hi,

Is there a message that gets sent to a stack when it becomes the 
front most window? e.g. when it is selected by the user, e.g. if 
there are two stacks:

StackA and StackB,

  if StackB is selected and the user then clicks into StackA )
  I would like Stack A to know this fact?

For StackB to know that is has been de-selected would be good too!

Depending on which stack/window is selected I would like to be able 
to perform a different action in another "Common" (library) stack. Is 
this possible?

Thanks a lot
Dave


From mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk  Wed Nov 30 11:56:40 2005
From: mb.ur at harbourhost.co.uk (Martin Baxter)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:56:40 +0000
Subject: Front Stack/Window???
In-Reply-To: <a05210601bfb3866ff11a@[192.168.0.101]>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@192.168.0.101>
	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@192.168.0.101>
	<a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@192.168.0.101>
	<D376EE6C-BA1F-45E6-97A1-45F0DDD44353@sosmartsoftware.com>
	<a05210602bfb24cec960a@192.168.0.101>	<438CA5D3.5030508@fourthworld.com>
	<f73a98160511291814u8e075cexd21385edd2689d7e@mail.gmail.com>
	<438D1DD5.6020108@fourthworld.com>
	<7.0.0.10.1.20051130074923.019e6440@pon.net>
	<a05210601bfb3866ff11a@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <438DD9C8.8040900@harbourhost.co.uk>

David Burgun wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Is there a message that gets sent to a stack when it becomes the front 
> most window? e.g. when it is selected by the user, e.g. if there are two 
> stacks:
> 
> StackA and StackB,
> 
>  if StackB is selected and the user then clicks into StackA )
>  I would like Stack A to know this fact?
> 
> For StackB to know that is has been de-selected would be good too!
> 
> Depending on which stack/window is selected I would like to be able to 
> perform a different action in another "Common" (library) stack. Is this 
> possible?
> 
> Thanks a lot
> Dave

Yes there is...
see the suspendstack and resumestack messages

hth

Martin Baxter



From scott at tactilemedia.com  Wed Nov 30 12:22:46 2005
From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:22:46 -0800
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <a05210604bfb36e971289@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <BFB31FE6.2825C%scott@tactilemedia.com>

Recently, David Burgun wrote:

> It must be as hard or harder to maintain the online docs that
> seperate PDF files.
> 
> If they made say broke it down into (say) 7 books, it shouldn't be so
> hard to do. And as long as the latest updates were available online.
> I am not necessarily talking about a printed books (although that
> woukd be nice!), downloadable PDFs would be just great.

Hi David:

There is a group that discusses the Rev documentation at the following
address:

 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RevDocs/

You might want to air your suggestions there.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-----
E: scott at tactilemedia.com
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com



From fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de  Wed Nov 30 13:03:53 2005
From: fischer at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de (Thomas Fischer)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 19:03:53 +0100
Subject: AW: Front Stack/Window???
In-Reply-To: <438DD9C8.8040900@harbourhost.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCOEOHDNAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>

Hello,

actually, it might be useful to activate the Message Watcher (available in the Debug Menu when editing a script, but staying around after the script is closed). It will be necessary to suppress some messages (at least cRevGeneral - what is this, by the way? Revolutions version of HC'S idle message?), but then you can click around and see what messages are created (you have to guess where they go to, though). But you will see the "suspendStack" and resumeStack" quite nicely - and many others.

Thomas

--

--
Thomas Fischer
Salzburg 

> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com]Im Auftrag von Martin
> Baxter
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. November 2005 17:57
> An: How to use Revolution
> Betreff: Re: Front Stack/Window???
> 
> 
> David Burgun wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Is there a message that gets sent to a stack when it becomes the front 
> > most window? e.g. when it is selected by the user, e.g. if 
> there are two 
> > stacks:
> > 
> > StackA and StackB,
> > 
> >  if StackB is selected and the user then clicks into StackA )
> >  I would like Stack A to know this fact?
> > 
> > For StackB to know that is has been de-selected would be good too!
> > 
> > Depending on which stack/window is selected I would like to be able to 
> > perform a different action in another "Common" (library) stack. Is this 
> > possible?
> > 
> > Thanks a lot
> > Dave
> 
> Yes there is...
> see the suspendstack and resumestack messages
> 
> hth
> 
> Martin Baxter
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com  Wed Nov 30 13:54:46 2005
From: stephenREVOLUTION at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 10:54:46 -0800
Subject: Backups Picker plugin
In-Reply-To: <7FE489E5-1EC9-47FB-9EB5-6A7E8D4C2811@sosmartsoftware.com>
References: <e6.769b6a44.30beffcc@aol.com> <438DB90F.5090807@chipp.com>
	<7FE489E5-1EC9-47FB-9EB5-6A7E8D4C2811@sosmartsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <p06230903bfb3a59f24d7@[192.168.1.103]>

And it has saved my posterior many times...
Thanks Eric, I never code without it.

>Lazy or absent-minded people might be interested, as many in this 
>list ;-) in my Backups Picker plugin that can entirely automate the 
>process (specify a delay, how many backups keep, etc)
>
>Best Regards from Paris,
>
>Eric Chatonet.

-- 
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


From vampire at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 30 16:17:00 2005
From: vampire at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: 30 Nov 2005 17:17:00 -0400
Subject: Valentina?
Message-ID: <3216215830.150996@www.chatteremail.com>


I see there is a deal going were if you buy revolution they give you
valentina. Does anybody have anything good or bad to say about
valentina? I was going to be buying revolution anyways and maybe I
should jump and buy before the offer expires.

Thanks

Steve




From rjb at robelko.com  Wed Nov 30 16:52:19 2005
From: rjb at robelko.com (Robert Brenstein)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 22:52:19 +0100
Subject: Valentina?
In-Reply-To: <3216215830.150996@www.chatteremail.com>
References: <3216215830.150996@www.chatteremail.com>
Message-ID: <a06110405bfb3cec1d116@[141.89.100.174]>

>I see there is a deal going were if you buy revolution they give you
>valentina. Does anybody have anything good or bad to say about
>valentina? I was going to be buying revolution anyways and maybe I
>should jump and buy before the offer expires.
>
>Thanks
>
>Steve

if you are going to buy revolution anyway, getting valentina as a 
bonus is worth it. they work well together. i am not exactly 
objective since i have been using this combo for several years now 
and used valentina with hypercard before.

robert


From hershrev at realtorsgroup.us  Wed Nov 30 15:34:23 2005
From: hershrev at realtorsgroup.us (Hershel Fisch)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:34:23 -0500
Subject: Imitated multi-thread
In-Reply-To: <OF974F1557.BAD791EE-ONC12570B6.00296BBC-C12570B6.0046C0F8@deutsche-boerse.com>
Message-ID: <BFB376FF.5218%hershrev@realtorsgroup.us>

On 11/11/05 7:52 AM, "xavier.bury at clearstream.com"
<xavier.bury at clearstream.com> wrote:

> Hershel

Thanks, just to mention a few things, 1) to have a reminder beep and open
the calendar at the time of an appointment scheduled, 2) to search my emails
every lets say 15 minutes or so.
Hershel Fisch

> 
> Depends on what you mean by threading. I think multi-symmetrical
> processing since rev can't do threads.
> 
> This implies a shared storage accessible to each processing node (or
> application) and a standard
> for sharing, commiting ops and retrieving the final result from the nodes
> by a node manager.
> 
> Shared storage can be a file (any format i guess), sql db or sent via IP
> sockets. 
> 
> You need a master node sending out requests to the processing nodes and to
> collect results and
> eventually schedule the jobs.
> 
> It's definitely not as hard as it seems but it's a thorny subject in
> programming.
> 
> Cheers
> Xavier
> 
> use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com wrote on 10/11/2005 21:29:12:
> 
>> On 11/9/05 10:37 PM, "MisterX" <b.xavier at internet.lu> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Hershel
>>> 
>>> Yes it's possible. You can do so via sockets or files or
>>> sql to communicate among the different parts of your applications.
>> Thanks, could you give me a bit of understanding?
>> Hershel.
>>> 
>>> Note that each method has it's advantages and inconveniences.
>>> 
>>> cheers
>>> Xavier
>>> http://monsieurx.com/taoo
>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
>>>> [mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of
>>>> Hershel Fisch
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 00:47
>>>> To: How to use Revolution
>>>> Subject: Imitated multi-thread
>>>> 
>>>> Hello, is there a possibility to imitate a multi-thread by
>>>> using a few separate stand alones ? If yes how, if not what yes?
>>>> Thanks, Hershel
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
>>>> your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription
>>> preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------
> To make communications with Clearstream easier, Clearstream has
> recently changed the email address format to conform with industry
> standards. The new format is 'firstname.familyname at clearstream.com'.
> 
> Visit us at http://www.clearstream.com
> 
> IMPORTANT MESSAGE
> 
> Internet communications are not secure and therefore Clearstream
> International does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
> this message.
> 
> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be
> legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are
> not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or
> any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
> prohibited and may be unlawful. Any views expressed in this e-mail are
> those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically
> states them to be the views of Clearstream International or of any of
> its affiliates or subsidiaries.
> 
> END OF DISCLAIMER
> _______________________________________________
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> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 17:35:32 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 08:35:32 +1000
Subject: ANN: Answer Dialog Patch Available
In-Reply-To: <438CA079.10409@chipp.com>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@192.168.0.101>
	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@192.168.0.101>
	<a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@192.168.0.101>
	<p06230904bfb233bc3edc@192.168.1.103>
	<a05210600bfb243b36b36@192.168.0.101> <438CA079.10409@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511301435r745e1621y49ceae817f179db8@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Chipp,

I haven't downloaded your patch yet to have a look, but is it still necessary?
RunRev changed things in 2.6.0 so that the answer text wrapped, and
this caused some problems with cut-off text. However as far as I can
see, this was fixed in version 2.6.1

Are there still problems that I haven't encountered yet?

Cheers,
Sarah


On 11/30/05, Chipp Walters <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:
> I've had the same probs as you all, and finally got around to writing a
> patch for answer dialog. You can get it by typing into the msg:
>
> go URL "http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/answerPatch.rev"
>
> Then follow the directions. You can also 'unpatch' with this tool as well.
>
> Here's the bug:
>
> RR decided in 2.6 to become more HIG compatible with dialog box widths.
>
> Unfortunately, if a string is too long without spaces, it will run past
> the standard width of the dialog box. This can happen when displaying
> filepaths or large font htmltext messages.
>
> The fix will only grow the width of the dialog when absolutely
> necessary. It will still maintain the HIG compatible widths unless the
> text runs off of it.
>
> I also fixed it to use the Windows standard Tahoma font at 11 points as
> well.
>
> hope you like it.
>
> -Chipp


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Nov 30 17:49:59 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 14:49:59 -0800
Subject: ANN: Answer Dialog Patch Available
In-Reply-To: <f99b52860511301435r745e1621y49ceae817f179db8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@192.168.0.101>	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@192.168.0.101>	<a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@192.168.0.101>	<p06230904bfb233bc3edc@192.168.1.103>	<a05210600bfb243b36b36@192.168.0.101>
	<438CA079.10409@chipp.com>
	<f99b52860511301435r745e1621y49ceae817f179db8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <438E2C97.4000204@fourthworld.com>

Sarah Reichelt wrote:
> I haven't downloaded your patch yet to have a look, but is it still necessary?
> RunRev changed things in 2.6.0 so that the answer text wrapped, and
> this caused some problems with cut-off text. However as far as I can
> see, this was fixed in version 2.6.1
> 
> Are there still problems that I haven't encountered yet?

The answer dialog works well as described in most common uses, extending 
the width of the dialog within HIG-recommended ranges and adjusting 
itself vertically to accomodate long strings.  It even adds a scrollbar 
if the string is too long to fit within the vertical size range of the 
dialog so you can put a novel into that dialog if you like.

However, the Rev text engine still does soft wraps on word breaks only, 
so it's possible to come up with long single-word strings that will 
evidence this in the answer dialog -- for example:

answer 
"abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvqxyza1b1c1d1e1f1g1h1i1j1k1l1m1n1o1p1q1r1s1t1u1v1w1x1y1z1"

...cuts of at "...j1k".

There's a request for more flexible word wrapping in Bugzilla:
<http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=727>

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From b.xavier at internet.lu  Wed Nov 30 18:10:09 2005
From: b.xavier at internet.lu (MisterX)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 00:10:09 +0100
Subject: Imitated multi-thread
In-Reply-To: <BFB376FF.5218%hershrev@realtorsgroup.us>
Message-ID: <20051130222748.0CED58252D0@mail.runrev.com>


> On 11/11/05 7:52 AM, "xavier.bury at clearstream.com"
> <xavier.bury at clearstream.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hershel
> 
> Thanks, just to mention a few things, 1) to have a reminder 
> beep and open the calendar at the time of an appointment 
> scheduled, 2) to search my emails every lets say 15 minutes or so.
> Hershel Fisch

Oh that kind of threading ;) 

Just use the "send" command:

Send "CheckMail" to stack "mailChecker" in 5 minutes 
-- actually, you have to use 5*60 seconds but I like optimistic pseudo code

Use a button to start the chain. 

To list the pending events (sends waiting to be sent) use the function:

put the pendingmessages

To cancel an event:

cancel (item 1 of line x of the pendingevents)

It's as good as threading gets in rev... ;)

Threading is usually lower-level paralellism. For example when you want to
send an event that takes minutes and other scripts can still run in the
meanwhile. So far, the only threading capable function in rev is getting a
url's data... What it does actually is more like a "wait <event> with
messages" (see <read from socket with message "receiveddata"> etc... for
other threading capable handlers ;)

Im sure others can explain it better - but that the essentials. You'll find
ample information on all those commands (send, wait, cancel,
pendingmessages) in the rev docs too (which don't suck at all imoho)...

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo



From irog at mac.com  Wed Nov 30 18:12:02 2005
From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:12:02 -0700
Subject: ANN: Answer Dialog Patch Available
In-Reply-To: <20051129210900.AF85E82538C@mail.runrev.com>
References: <20051129210900.AF85E82538C@mail.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <72B05B86-DDFF-46FC-82C7-A032D93BD67D@mac.com>

Chip,

This is wonderful!  I really appreciate what you and many others on  
this list do for us all.

Many thanks and cheers, Roger


On Nov 29, 2005, at 2:09 PM, use-revolution-request at lists.runrev.com  
wrote:

> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:39:53 -0600
> From: Chipp Walters <chipp at chipp.com>
> Subject: ANN: Answer Dialog Patch Available
> To: How to use Revolution <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
> Message-ID: <438CA079.10409 at chipp.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I've had the same probs as you all, and finally got around to  
> writing a
> patch for answer dialog. You can get it by typing into the msg:
>
> go URL "http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/answerPatch.rev"



From fde101 at fjrhome.net  Wed Nov 30 18:26:18 2005
From: fde101 at fjrhome.net (Frank D. Engel, Jr.)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:26:18 -0500
Subject: More newbie problems
In-Reply-To: <754B4B85-851B-46EE-A1A5-0828E895FCBF@recursive.ca>
References: <68AD3E36-AA4D-439E-8E84-20CA1C5F769E@recursive.ca>
	<438D2CB7.5060707@chipp.com>
	<754B4B85-851B-46EE-A1A5-0828E895FCBF@recursive.ca>
Message-ID: <bf7c32d856760727ce0f3c982eb1428f@fjrhome.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

You are saving the new mainstack, then opening *that* file, not the old 
file housing the mainstack you are moving, right?

Basically, each file represents a specific mainstack and its associated 
substacks.

If you have mainstack A in file A.rev and mainstack B in file B.rev, 
then make B a substack of A, save A into A.rev, and open B.rev, file 
B.rev was never changed during the previous process, so B.rev still 
opens with B as a mainstack...

Make sure you are opening your equivalent of A.rev, not B.rev, when you 
are doing this testing.


On Nov 29, 2005, at 11:53 PM, Bob Hutchison wrote:

> Hi Chipp,
>
> On Nov 29, 2005, at 11:38 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:
>
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> Sure, it's easy to make a mainstack a substack of another.
>>
>> Go to your stack property inspector of the main stack you wish to 
>> make a substack of another. Make sure you're at the 'Basic 
>> Properties' section.
>>
>> There's a option button named 'mainStack'. Just click on it and 
>> select the new mainstack you want for this stack and it's done for 
>> you.
>
> I've done this at least a dozen times now. I can set the mainstack 
> option button to the other mainstack. If I save, it reverts back. 
> Change the mainstack again, click on the other mainstack then back on 
> the one I just changed and it reverts back. Basically, I can't get the 
> change in mainstack to stick.
>
> Actually, I just tried it a couple of more times. Thought I'd see what 
> the application browser might tell me. It seems that I had an empty 
> substack defined on the mainstack I was trying to move. Once I got rid 
> of that, this worked.
>
> OK, I'm set now. Thanks.
>
>>
>> See below for other answers.
>
> Thanks, I'm going to have to get used to this running of scripts to 
> modify things.
>
> Cheers,
> Bob
>
>>
>> best,
>> Chipp
>>
>> Bob Hutchison wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> Having a blast with RunRev... in two ways at least: lots of fun, and 
>>>  shooting myself in the foot
>>> So I made a main stack and got it working quite nicely. I've grown  
>>> attached to it even.
>>> Now I am coming to realise that this was something of a mistake. I  
>>> should have made a dummy stack as the main stack and done my work in 
>>>  a substack. Next time for sure.
>>> So I read in the documentation "Changing a stack's mainStack 
>>> property  moves it into the same file as the specified main stack. 
>>> The stack  becomes a substack of the specified mainStack."
>>> Unless I'm doing something wrong -- and this is a distinct  
>>> possibility -- then this isn't precisely correct. This doesn't do  
>>> much when the stack you are trying to change the mainStack property  
>>> of is itself a main stack. In fact it doesn't seem to do anything.
>>> So, barring some error in what I'm trying to do, is there some other 
>>>  way to do this? I can't quite find answers in the documentation.
>>> Can you demote a main stack?
>>> Can you copy a main stack to a substack?
>>> Can you move a card from one stack to another?
>>
>> copy card 1 of stack "fred" to stack "sam"
>>> Can you duplicate stacks?
>>
>> clone stack "fred"
>>> Can you duplicate cards?
>>
>> clone card "myCard" of stack "fred"
>>> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
> ----
> Bob Hutchison          -- blogs at <http://www.recursive.ca/hutch/>
> Recursive Design Inc.  -- <http://www.recursive.ca/>
> Raconteur              -- <http://www.raconteur.info/>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
>
- -----------------------------------------------------------
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <fde101 at fjrhome.net>

$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten 
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
everlasting life.
$
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFDjjUa7aqtWrR9cZoRAhN+AJ9NxZadfOQn7yvExXs1sfd+yqkhuwCgjh6Q
LHt+9EMjVl/yo22KGe9r5LU=
=EM2N
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



___________________________________________________________
$0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
Signup at www.doteasy.com



From sarah.reichelt at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 18:32:53 2005
From: sarah.reichelt at gmail.com (Sarah Reichelt)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 09:32:53 +1000
Subject: ANN: Answer Dialog Patch Available
In-Reply-To: <438E2C97.4000204@fourthworld.com>
References: <a05210605bfb0a85acd4c@192.168.0.101>
	<37EC0B5A-E8DC-4C03-9011-C774DDD4276E@lacscentre.co.uk>
	<a05210601bfb1f1fb0007@192.168.0.101>
	<a05210600bfb21fcdad3e@192.168.0.101>
	<p06230904bfb233bc3edc@192.168.1.103>
	<a05210600bfb243b36b36@192.168.0.101> <438CA079.10409@chipp.com>
	<f99b52860511301435r745e1621y49ceae817f179db8@mail.gmail.com>
	<438E2C97.4000204@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <f99b52860511301532p453121f2ye498f28437abe144@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/1/05, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> wrote:
> Sarah Reichelt wrote:
> > I haven't downloaded your patch yet to have a look, but is it still necessary?
> > RunRev changed things in 2.6.0 so that the answer text wrapped, and
> > this caused some problems with cut-off text. However as far as I can
> > see, this was fixed in version 2.6.1
> >
> > Are there still problems that I haven't encountered yet?
>
> The answer dialog works well as described in most common uses, extending
> the width of the dialog within HIG-recommended ranges and adjusting
> itself vertically to accomodate long strings.  It even adds a scrollbar
> if the string is too long to fit within the vertical size range of the
> dialog so you can put a novel into that dialog if you like.
>
> However, the Rev text engine still does soft wraps on word breaks only,
> so it's possible to come up with long single-word strings that will
> evidence this in the answer dialog -- for example:
>
> answer
> "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvqxyza1b1c1d1e1f1g1h1i1j1k1l1m1n1o1p1q1r1s1t1u1v1w1x1y1z1"
>
> ...cuts of at "...j1k".
>

Thanks Richard,

That explains why I haven't encountered it yet :-)

Cheers,
Sarah


From nicolas_cueto at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 30 18:45:16 2005
From: nicolas_cueto at yahoo.com (N Cueto)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:45:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: OT - MySQL, PHP, and Japanese text
In-Reply-To: <a06110405bfb3cec1d116@[141.89.100.174]>
Message-ID: <20051130234516.85022.qmail@web60624.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm using "put URL tURL" to 
call a PHP page, which in
turn accesses a MySQL
database. (Please note that
PHP is the only way my 
webhost allows MySQL 
administration.)

This was working fine
until I tried selecting
Japanese text, which
is now ending up garbled
at stack level.

If it helps, here's my
script for retrieving
records:

on mouseUp
  put "http://webpage.php" into tURL
  put URL tURL into tTempResult
  replace "<cr>" with cr in tTempResult
  replace "," with tab in tTempResult
  put empty into tResult
  repeat for each line tLine in tTempResult
    if tLine is "" then next repeat
    put tLine & cr after tResult
  end repeat
end mouseUp

What I'm not sure off is:

1) is the "replace ","" command
breaking up the Japanese string?

2) at MySQL admin-level, does
Japanese text require a special
data type or data setting? It's
varchar now.

3) at stack level, is there some
command for setting received-data
type? I'm not sure what I mean
here, other than I've read before
about things like binary encoding 
but only with a vague understanding

As always, many thanks for the
advise that, withoug fail, always
arrives generously and kindly
delivered. (I gush a bit because
of the recent negativity about
the docs and some aspect of 
RunRev.)

Cheers,
Nicolas Cueto
niconiko language school


From john at debraneys.com  Wed Nov 30 19:04:51 2005
From: john at debraneys.com (John Tregea)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 11:04:51 +1100
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <8ABFEC57-A494-4DF1-95D8-88E9B3C9F3D1@danshafer.com>
Message-ID: <200512010005.jB104sKV017799@mail06.syd.optusnet.com.au>

I think AppleScript (and CyberDog) was/were Apple's end result when they
looked for a way to implement "system wide" hypertalk.

-----Original Message-----
From: use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Dan Shafer
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 7:02 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation

There was at one point inside Apple a very serious discussion about  
adding a TCP stack to HyperCard and stuffing it into the ROM. This  
was a year or more before the Internet exploded. The guy who promoted  
the idea got show down by Jean-Louis Gassee and left the company.  
Just imagine....


On Nov 28, 2005, at 12:13 AM, Dom wrote:

> wonder why Apple didn't make Hypertalk system-wide
> (apart reinventing the wheel...)



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
 From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
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From john at debraneys.com  Wed Nov 30 19:14:07 2005
From: john at debraneys.com (John Tregea)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 11:14:07 +1100
Subject: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation
In-Reply-To: <a05210600bfb37ac9340b@[192.168.0.101]>
Message-ID: <200512010014.jB10E9Lv032311@mail28.syd.optusnet.com.au>

The MOST useful book (to me) by far in many years of commercial scripting
with HyperCard was Dan Shafer's book on HyperTalk Scripting. It got used
almost everyday for ten years or so. Additions to the language were always
available in the "What's New" section of the users guide for each new
version.

I still remember the book as the most outstanding written tool for the most
outstanding environment of its day.

Don't know if that can be repeated for RunRev?

Dan?...



>>>Do you know what kind of book would represent the docs?

>But it's difficult to compare books coming from a more than 20 years 
>company counting several thousands of "employees" and Runrev :-)
>May be one day?

Yes, I agree, but then this isn't as big as Apple/Mac. It's 
equivilent to say AppleScript, QuickTime and the FIle System. As I 
said, I reckon it could be split into somewhere between 5 and 10 
books.

>
>>It must be as hard or harder to maintain the online docs that 
>>seperate PDF files.
>
>The docs are stored into XML files (about 1740 for the dictionnary, 
>500 for the faq, etc.).
>Data are of course not in the stack. So maintenance should be appear
easy...
>Have a look in the components/help folder.
>
>>If they made say broke it down into (say) 7 books, it shouldn't be 
>>so hard to do. And as long as the latest updates were available 
>>online. I am not necessarily talking about a printed books 
>>(although that woukd be nice!), downloadable PDFs would be just 
>>great.
>>
>>For instance, for RunRev Version 3, wouldn't it be nice is the 
>>books for it came out way ahead of any code being produced. The 
>>docs could then be proof read by people on this list and as many 
>>errors etc. fixed.


>
>This would mean that you should have to be a beta tester too: don't 
>you have enough issues with released versions?
>If I understand correctly :-)

That would be a good thing! Beta testing is just fine, yes the 
"Bible" should go through a similar process too.

I'm not sure what you mean biut issues with released versions? The 
only thing I have problems with is new features being added when bugs 
that have been there for a long time are not fixed.
>
>>This would become the bible and could not be changed without RFCs 
>>like the internet committee.
>>
>>The implementation would then come from this bible and anything 
>>that differed from the bible would be considered a bug and fixed, 
>>unless an RFC is raised and passed.
>>
>>Of course this could/would mean that creativity is stifled in terms 
>>of adding new features, however this need not be the case. As long 
>>as the Standard RunRev 3 "Bible" was left as defined, there could 
>>be extensions that added to the language, similar to the way in 
>>which #pragma's work in C/C++, adding to the standard , but never 
>>actually taking the "standard" away.
>>
>>Eventually these extensions would either die out or be adopted back 
>>in the standard on the next major revision.
>>
>>I really do think that something like this just has to be done if 
>>RunRev is to really make it into the mainstream.
>
>Something like that will happen for sure but needs a bigger 
>community first: so, stay with us :-)

Well, to me this is a chicken and egg situation, it can't get bigger 
til the above is done and that can't be done til it gets bigger.

What it needs is some investment! How much do people on the list 
think it would take in terms of money to put this into place? I'd be 
happy to cough up $100 or so if I thought the above would be done. 
This would be credited back to to those who contribute in terms of 
free updates to the docs and (maybe) free renewal of license fees.

(I've already spent far more than that in terms of wasted time!)

Anything just to move this forward, it's been hanging around in the 
slow lane for too long. If something isn't done soon a similar tool 
will come along and wipe it out.

I know some (if not most) of you on this list have had past 
experience with MC and it's kin, but I haven't and to be honest I 
have no loyalty in terms of history to motivate me (unlike say Apple 
or the Mac Plaftform), if something like rev came along, even if it 
only had 75% of what RunRev has now but all the above was 
implemented, I'd jump boat. Since I would really have more to put my 
faith in, in terms of getting to a mainstream product.

Having said that, I suppose I do have *some* loyality to RunRev Ltd., 
since I admire (mostly) what they have acheived so far. I have also 
worked a founder member of a number of companies and know all about 
the growing pains and not wanting to let go of the "baby". However, 
unless this product is allowed to become an adult, it's gonna be 
hanging round in pool rooms til time for retirement!!!

All the Best
Dave
_______________________________________________
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
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From charles.hartman at conncoll.edu  Wed Nov 30 19:43:29 2005
From: charles.hartman at conncoll.edu (Charles Hartman)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 19:43:29 -0500
Subject: AW: Front Stack/Window???
In-Reply-To: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCOEOHDNAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
References: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCOEOHDNAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <52B111C8-4D31-43E3-B0F9-BC2B881CD017@conncoll.edu>


On Nov 30, 2005, at 1:03 PM, Thomas Fischer wrote:

> actually, it might be useful to activate the Message Watcher  
> (available in the Debug Menu when editing a script, but staying  
> around after the script is closed). It will be necessary to  
> suppress some messages (at least cRevGeneral - what is this, by the  
> way? Revolutions version of HC'S idle message?), but then you can  
> click around and see what messages are created (you have to guess  
> where they go to, though). But you will see the "suspendStack" and  
> resumeStack" quite nicely - and many others.


-- And wouldn't it be lovely to have a Message Watcher that said  
more, and less? That by default suppressed all the mouseMove etc  
stuff? That recorded what handler (if any) finally snagged the  
message? Would that be doable?

Charles



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Nov 30 19:59:39 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:59:39 -0800
Subject: AW: Front Stack/Window???
In-Reply-To: <52B111C8-4D31-43E3-B0F9-BC2B881CD017@conncoll.edu>
References: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCOEOHDNAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>
	<52B111C8-4D31-43E3-B0F9-BC2B881CD017@conncoll.edu>
Message-ID: <438E4AFB.8040104@fourthworld.com>

Charles Hartman wrote:
> 
> On Nov 30, 2005, at 1:03 PM, Thomas Fischer wrote:
> 
>> actually, it might be useful to activate the Message Watcher  
>> (available in the Debug Menu when editing a script, but staying  
>> around after the script is closed). It will be necessary to  suppress 
>> some messages (at least cRevGeneral - what is this, by the  way? 
>> Revolutions version of HC'S idle message?), but then you can  click 
>> around and see what messages are created (you have to guess  where 
>> they go to, though). But you will see the "suspendStack" and  
>> resumeStack" quite nicely - and many others.
> 
> 
> 
> -- And wouldn't it be lovely to have a Message Watcher that said  more, 
> and less? That by default suppressed all the mouseMove etc  stuff? That 
> recorded what handler (if any) finally snagged the  message? Would that 
> be doable?

UmbrellaMan does that by letting you select which messages you want to 
monitor.

It's available in RevNet:
Development->Plugins->GoRevNet

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Media Corporation
  ___________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com       http://www.FourthWorld.com


From alex at tweedly.net  Wed Nov 30 20:16:25 2005
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 01:16:25 +0000
Subject: AW: Front Stack/Window???
In-Reply-To: <438E4AFB.8040104@fourthworld.com>
References: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCOEOHDNAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>	<52B111C8-4D31-43E3-B0F9-BC2B881CD017@conncoll.edu>
	<438E4AFB.8040104@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <438E4EE9.7010709@tweedly.net>

Richard Gaskin wrote:

> UmbrellaMan does that by letting you select which messages you want to 
> monitor.
>
> It's available in RevNet:
> Development->Plugins->GoRevNet
>
Where is it once I get into GoRevNet ?
It's not in the obvious place (Stacks / UmbrellaMan).

btw - each time I use GoRevNet, it downloads the 137Kb stack.
Is it supposed to do that ?
How do I stop it ?

(Actually, I should be more precise - each time I start up Rev, GoRevNet 
will download the stack. If I select menu Development / Plugins / 
GoRevNet multiple times within the same Rev session, only the first such 
use downloads the stack, subsequent ones start up instantly. But if quit 
the IDE and restart it, next GoRevNet does another download.)

-- 
Alex Tweedly       http://www.tweedly.net



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/188 - Release Date: 29/11/2005



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Nov 30 20:27:52 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:27:52 -0800
Subject: AW: Front Stack/Window???
In-Reply-To: <438E4EE9.7010709@tweedly.net>
References: <ODEJIAGCHCHLGNGEEGBCOEOHDNAA.fischer@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de>	<52B111C8-4D31-43E3-B0F9-BC2B881CD017@conncoll.edu>	<438E4AFB.8040104@fourthworld.com>
	<438E4EE9.7010709@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <438E5198.3050608@fourthworld.com>

Alex Tweedly wrote:
> Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> UmbrellaMan does that by letting you select which messages you want to 
>> monitor.
>>
>> It's available in RevNet:
>> Development->Plugins->GoRevNet
>>
> Where is it once I get into GoRevNet ?
> It's not in the obvious place (Stacks / UmbrellaMan).

It's in "Stacks" as "4W UmbrellaMan"

> btw - each time I use GoRevNet, it downloads the 137Kb stack.
> Is it supposed to do that ?
> How do I stop it ?
> 
> (Actually, I should be more precise - each time I start up Rev, GoRevNet 
> will download the stack. If I select menu Development / Plugins / 
> GoRevNet multiple times within the same Rev session, only the first such 
> use downloads the stack, subsequent ones start up instantly. But if quit 
> the IDE and restart it, next GoRevNet does another download.)

Yes, as with any downloaded stack RevNet stays in memory only during the 
current session.

I could maintain a local cache to avoid the 3-second download (I'm 
assuming yours isn't much longer, as I have the crappiest Airport 
connection of anyone I know <g>), and we might be able to use the cache 
for other things as well.

If you favor a cache, where would you prefer to see it stored?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From JimAultWins at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 30 20:35:32 2005
From: JimAultWins at yahoo.com (Jim Ault)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:35:32 -0800
Subject: AW: Front Stack/Window???
In-Reply-To: <438E4EE9.7010709@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <BFB39364.313AB%JimAultWins@yahoo.com>

"4W Unbrellaman" is the exact spelling in the list.


On 11/30/05 5:16 PM, "Alex Tweedly" <alex at tweedly.net> wrote:

> Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> UmbrellaMan does that by letting you select which messages you want to
>> monitor.
>> 
>> It's available in RevNet:
>> Development->Plugins->GoRevNet
>> 
> Where is it once I get into GoRevNet ?
> It's not in the obvious place (Stacks / UmbrellaMan).
> 
> btw - each time I use GoRevNet, it downloads the 137Kb stack.
> Is it supposed to do that ?
> How do I stop it ?
> 
> (Actually, I should be more precise - each time I start up Rev, GoRevNet
> will download the stack. If I select menu Development / Plugins /
> GoRevNet multiple times within the same Rev session, only the first such
> use downloads the stack, subsequent ones start up instantly. But if quit
> the IDE and restart it, next GoRevNet does another download.)




From mdswindell at charter.net  Wed Nov 30 20:50:33 2005
From: mdswindell at charter.net (Mark Swindell)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:50:33 -0800
Subject: Why isn't Rev more popular?
Message-ID: <F0CB54B8-016B-4258-8321-C05DB4878D1B@charter.net>

What is the main reason (if there is such a thing) that Rev is not  
more popular among professional developers/programmers?  It's been  
around awhile now.  People have had a chance to hear about it.  It  
has garnered some awards, at least on the Mac side.  On the face of  
things you'd think it would  be more popular.

Just curious to hear what people think.
Mark 


From revolutionary.dan at gmail.com  Wed Nov 30 23:14:41 2005
From: revolutionary.dan at gmail.com (Dan Shafer)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:14:41 -0800
Subject: Why isn't Rev more popular?
In-Reply-To: <F0CB54B8-016B-4258-8321-C05DB4878D1B@charter.net>
References: <F0CB54B8-016B-4258-8321-C05DB4878D1B@charter.net>
Message-ID: <70ed6b130511302014m18f15037i9353cb53dc30e68e@mail.gmail.com>

I'm sure that is a question the RunRev folks would like to have an answer to
as well. There certainly isn't just one reason and I doubt there is one main
reason. There's a host of things that make up the answer including:

1. As a small company, RunRev doesn't have the resources to get the product
as widely promoted as it could if it were larger.

2. It's not "like" anything conventional professional programmers know about
so trying to explain it in a capsule is very difficult even for those of us
who understand it well.

3. It competes with free languages and tools such as Java, JavaScript,
Python, Perl, PHP, many flavors of C.

4. It's not taught at the university level.

5. It has been widely (mis)perceived as a Mac language, particularly because
of its resemblance in terminology and language syntax to HyperCard.

There are dozens of others.


On 11/30/05, Mark Swindell <mdswindell at charter.net> wrote:
>
> What is the main reason (if there is such a thing) that Rev is not
> more popular among professional developers/programmers?  It's been
> around awhile now.  People have had a chance to hear about it.  It
> has garnered some awards, at least on the Mac side.  On the face of
> things you'd think it would  be more popular.
>
> Just curious to hear what people think.
> Mark
>
> --
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Nov 30 23:38:25 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 22:38:25 -0600
Subject: Documented Cursor Bug...Please try.
Message-ID: <438E7E41.3080802@chipp.com>

Hi all,

Jerry Daniels and I spent about an hour today trying to create a very 
simple recipe to replicate the 'Cursor stuck on I-beam' phenomenon most 
of us see regularly. I've built cursor libraries in the past to fix 
this, but the latest Rev engine (Windows) goes bezerk with the hand 
cursor sometimes and ends up writing garbage all over the screen. So, 
I'm more determined to just get Rev to fix the engine.

Here's the deal. I would very much appreciate it if many of you could 
test out this simple recipe stack:

type into the msg box (or cut and paste):

go URL "http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/cursorbug.rev"

The instructions are plain, and you can get back to me on this list 
whether or not your curson got 'stuck.' It's been tested on Windows XP 
but not much on other platforms. It would be great if MC users could 
test this too, so we can document it as an engine bug and not an IDE bug 
(I believe this in an engine bug).

Thanks!!!

-Chipp



From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Nov 30 23:38:59 2005
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 05:38:59 +0100
Subject: Why isn't Rev more popular?
In-Reply-To: <70ed6b130511302014m18f15037i9353cb53dc30e68e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F0CB54B8-016B-4258-8321-C05DB4878D1B@charter.net>
	<70ed6b130511302014m18f15037i9353cb53dc30e68e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06200700bfb42b5d5a95@[10.0.0.18]>

>I'm sure that is a question the RunRev folks would like to have an answer to
>as well. There certainly isn't just one reason and I doubt there is one main
>reason. There's a host of things that make up the answer including:
>
>1. As a small company, RunRev doesn't have the resources to get the product
>as widely promoted as it could if it were larger.

Speaking of *promotion*...right now, as I write this, I am putting 
some finishing
touches on an announcement web page for the European Rev
Conference in November 2006.

By getting such an early start I hope that my press releases, 
announcement to lists,
and any other means of getting the word out will add more awareness of RunRev
and their products. If anyone has ideas for getting the word out 
about this conference
please get in touch with me off list.

**Early bird pricing will be very attractive**, so please get in 
touch if you are interested
in attending. We've negotiated a great package deal at a hotel for 
conference facilities
and room rates. Meals, rooms, and conference hall in the same 
location means non-stop
Rev talk for two full days!

We had a ball at the 2004 Rev Conference - 2006 will be even better!

More to come soon!

ciao,
sims





From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed Nov 30 23:45:47 2005
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:45:47 -0800
Subject: Documented Cursor Bug...Please try.
In-Reply-To: <438E7E41.3080802@chipp.com>
References: <438E7E41.3080802@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <438E7FFB.3090509@fourthworld.com>

Chipp Walters wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Jerry Daniels and I spent about an hour today trying to create a very 
> simple recipe to replicate the 'Cursor stuck on I-beam' phenomenon most 
> of us see regularly. I've built cursor libraries in the past to fix 
> this, but the latest Rev engine (Windows) goes bezerk with the hand 
> cursor sometimes and ends up writing garbage all over the screen. So, 
> I'm more determined to just get Rev to fix the engine.
> 
> Here's the deal. I would very much appreciate it if many of you could 
> test out this simple recipe stack:
> 
> type into the msg box (or cut and paste):
> 
> go URL "http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/cursorbug.rev"
> 
> The instructions are plain, and you can get back to me on this list 
> whether or not your curson got 'stuck.' It's been tested on Windows XP 
> but not much on other platforms. It would be great if MC users could 
> test this too, so we can document it as an engine bug and not an IDE bug 
> (I believe this in an engine bug).

System:  OS X 10.4.3, PowerBook G4 1GHz, 768 MB RAM

Result:  The cursor stays an I-beam after the window goes away.  Once I 
move the mouse over any area which would affect a change, the expected 
change happens.  So here, the problem is a minor one of the cursor not 
updating when the field closes.

As for the "junk" cursor image, as you sure you're using v2.6.1?

 From the v2.6.1 changelog:

   Bug 885: Corrupted cursor issue
   ~~~~~~~
   In previous engine versions, setting the defaultCursor
   property to a non built-in image and then setting the
   cursor to a non built-in image would result in the
   default cursor becoming corrupted. This has been fixed.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Managing Editor, revJournal
  _______________________________________________________
  Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


From sims at ezpzapps.com  Wed Nov 30 23:45:09 2005
From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 05:45:09 +0100
Subject: Documented Cursor Bug...Please try.
In-Reply-To: <438E7E41.3080802@chipp.com>
References: <438E7E41.3080802@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <p06200703bfb42fd466aa@[10.0.0.20]>

>Hi all,
>
>Jerry Daniels and I spent about an hour today trying to create a 
>very simple recipe to replicate the 'Cursor stuck on I-beam' 
>phenomenon most of us see regularly. I've built cursor libraries in 
>the past to fix this, but the latest Rev engine (Windows) goes 
>bezerk with the hand cursor sometimes and ends up writing garbage 
>all over the screen. So, I'm more determined to just get Rev to fix 
>the engine.
>
>Here's the deal. I would very much appreciate it if many of you 
>could test out this simple recipe stack:
>
>type into the msg box (or cut and paste):
>
>go URL "http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/cursorbug.rev"
>
>The instructions are plain, and you can get back to me on this list 
>whether or not your curson got 'stuck.'

Cursor 'got stuck' on OS X (10.4.2) with 'Enter' and 'Return'.

ciao,
sims

European Rev Conference 2006!


From dick.kriesel at mail.com  Wed Nov 30 23:47:32 2005
From: dick.kriesel at mail.com (Dick Kriesel)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:47:32 -0800
Subject: Documented Cursor Bug...Please try.
In-Reply-To: <438E7E41.3080802@chipp.com>
Message-ID: <BFB3C064.152C2%dick.kriesel@mail.com>

Your test successfully demonstrated the problem on my Mac running OS X
10.4.3 with Rev 2.6.1 Build 152.

-- Dick


On 11/30/05 8:38 PM, "Chipp Walters" <chipp at chipp.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Jerry Daniels and I spent about an hour today trying to create a very
> simple recipe to replicate the 'Cursor stuck on I-beam' phenomenon most
> of us see regularly. I've built cursor libraries in the past to fix
> this, but the latest Rev engine (Windows) goes bezerk with the hand
> cursor sometimes and ends up writing garbage all over the screen. So,
> I'm more determined to just get Rev to fix the engine.
> 
> Here's the deal. I would very much appreciate it if many of you could
> test out this simple recipe stack:
> 
> type into the msg box (or cut and paste):
> 
> go URL "http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/cursorbug.rev"
> 
> The instructions are plain, and you can get back to me on this list
> whether or not your curson got 'stuck.' It's been tested on Windows XP
> but not much on other platforms. It would be great if MC users could
> test this too, so we can document it as an engine bug and not an IDE bug
> (I believe this in an engine bug).
> 
> Thanks!!!
> 
> -Chipp




From chipp at chipp.com  Wed Nov 30 23:54:03 2005
From: chipp at chipp.com (Chipp Walters)
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 22:54:03 -0600
Subject: Documented Cursor Bug...Please try.
In-Reply-To: <438E7FFB.3090509@fourthworld.com>
References: <438E7E41.3080802@chipp.com> <438E7FFB.3090509@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <438E81EB.7000706@chipp.com>



Richard Gaskin wrote:

> As for the "junk" cursor image, as you sure you're using v2.6.1?
> 
>  From the v2.6.1 changelog:
> 
>   Bug 885: Corrupted cursor issue
>   ~~~~~~~
>   In previous engine versions, setting the defaultCursor
>   property to a non built-in image and then setting the
>   cursor to a non built-in image would result in the
>   default cursor becoming corrupted. This has been fixed.

Yeah, that one got fixed. This one is much worse. It appears if you keep 
setting resetting the cursor to hand/i-beam/arrow on mouseMove (which 
used to work fine), it craps out the entire display. Basically writing 
garbage all over the screen, not just where the cursor is.

I haven't found a recipe for that yet.

-Chipp