[Fr] [En] Re: French list

[jbv]

Well,

I don't want to sound pompous, but I'm convinced that
the ideas, concepts & ambitions behind the original
design of Xtalk languages went far beyond the idea of being
a kind of "Klingon"...
It has much more to do with the way algorithms are understood
& memorized by newbies and other concepts in ergonomics...

Oddly this thread might take us back to another discussion that
pops up at times : the addition of syntactic elements from other
languages (x+=1 for instance)...
I've always been opposed to that kind of idea, not because I see
it as an heresy nor because I'm a purist, but because I don't see
any reason to add background noise or useless complexity to
Xtalk structure...
Some say that they're more used to "x+=1" than "add 1 to x",
but that's kind of weird : they're so deeply "influenced" (sorry
can't find a more suitable word) by their habits in coding in a
specific language that they feel less confortable in a language
that is much closer to natural english...

To jump back to the original topic of this thread, I'd like to
remind a good advice given by any teacher of foreign language :
if you want to learn to speak english (or any foreign language),
first think in english...
In the same vein, I don't think it's a good idea to write "a flow-chart
a-la-Basic" to understand an undocumented & complex script...
Better write some elegant & well documented xtalk code from the
beginning... IOW if you want to code in xtalk, first think in
xtalk...
That's why I wrote previously : it'll make sense to have french
posts on this list when a french version of Transcript is available...

But of course, I don't want to hinder anyone from posting in the
language of his/her choice... I love cultural diversity !

JB

> jbv <jbv.silences at Club-Internet.fr> wrote:
>
> > IMHO it will make sense to post in french (or any other
> > language) to the list only when there's a french (or any other
> > language) of Transcript... (grin)
>
> Pas d'accord ! Que le langage soit en simili-anglais ne me gêne pas...
> C'est une sorte de beche-de-mer, quoi ;-)
> Un peu du Klingon, pas vraiment de la litterature !
> Un code, quoi, comme un autre, un Basic, mais plus facile à comprendre
> !!
>
> Not agreed!
> In fact, I am NOT disturbed by the pseudo-english used in HyperTalk --
> eeer in Transcript ;-)
> For me, it is a bichlamar, a Klingon, no litterature!
> Sort of a code, as basic, but easiest!!
>
> > Actually, far from being a bad joke, this suggestion makes
> > sense, since Xtalk has been designed to be as close as
> > possible to natural english, therefore the effort made by
> > non-english speakers to decypher a script is probably
> > similar to the effort of understanding posts on the list...
>
> Pas d'accord non plus !! Je trouve qu'on sait facilement relire un
> script, meme celui de quelqu'un d'autre -- c'est tout l'interet de
> HyperTalk -- pardon, Transcript !
> Si on a du mal à  lire, c'est que le script est complexe : quand c'est
> mon propre script, avec des boucles imbriquées, je dois parfois prendre
> une feuille de papier, et me faire un "organigramme" à la Basic quand il
> s'agit d'un script que je n'ai pas touche depuis plusieurs mois (sans
> oublier le cas où je me demande pour quelle j'ai bien pu programmer de
> cette façon ;->)
> Quant à s'exprimer et à s'expliquer avec des nuances c'est nettement
> plus facile dans sa langue maternelle -- et encore plus quand il s'agit
> de l'explication de quelqu'un d'autre ;-))
>
> Not agreed, also!! It is easy to re-read a script, even another's person
> script.
> If it is NOT easy, it's because of the script itself --for instance with
> nested loops. I have sometimes to take a sheet of paper, and write down
> a flowchart a la Basic, especially when it is a months old piece of
> script (and I wonder how I could write such a thing as that ;->)
> As for explain myself with subtleties, it is easier to do that in my
> mother tongue -- and moreover if it is another's person explanation ;-))
>
> --
> Bilingual Revolutionario
>
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