Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Bob Warren]

Dear David,

Please see my answers below, interspersed with your comments.

>I should probably just stay out of this, but a few comments have my
>dander up.  First, distinguish more clearly between bugs and style.

Point taken. I think you're right. However, at the moment it is a little
difficult to make the distinction, since a few too many bugs obviously
exist, and this has been confirmed by old-hands such as yourself and
not just relative newcomers. However, the fact that you define something
as a question of "style" does not make it arbitrary. A given aspect is
either a good idea or a bad idea, and whether it is one or the other is
a matter of consensus I would have thought.

>  To
>those of you from other backgrounds, x-talk is different. Many of us
>like it this way.

I like it too. In fact, I think that Rev has so much in its favour - its
philosophy,
the Transcript language, even the IDE and (yes!) the script editor - that
I feel outraged that anyone can treat it with so little respect that they
continue to let it be riddled with bugs. I have been involved with
computers since the  early 1960s, so perhaps I am a little out of fashion
in my attitude towards bugs. In my time, they were things to be
exterminated urgently. I never thought of keeping them as pets,
adoring them or even selling them!

>There are more important things for the developers to
>be doing than adding features from other languages to suit a few migrants.

I wouldn't change a language to suit a few migrants either. But if a
suggested feature, from another language or straight out of someone's
head, makes sense within the context of the language under consideration,
why not adopt it? I would have thought that the only real consideration
is whether the suggestion is practical. Even old hands accept changes
when they make the task of programming easier. And not all old hands
are entirely uncritical of the tools they use.

I would say that there are more important things for the developers to
be doing than adding features to their "own" language to suit a few
old cronies. Debugging is one of them.

>Bob Warren wrote:

>>In Word, there is no possibility of positioning the cursor at the
beginning

The whole paragraph was as follows:
"In Word, there is no possibility of positioning the cursor at the beginning
of the line before the indent. Just like Rev, it gets positioned immediately
before the "H". However, if I type BACKSPACE, Word simply removes the
indent."

Convention in program design is important. For example, if you have a
program open in front of you, what would you say if the File menu was on
the right and the Help menu was on the left? Even this little thing would
make most people uneasy. No, programming is a kind of universal language
and we need to preserve communication with other people by respecting
their expectancies. Though I find the individuality of X-Talk refreshing,
I wouldn't suggest for one minute that it should use a totally
unconventional
script editor. In SOME respects, the Rev editor borders on the
unconventional, and I don't think this is a good thing. That's all I wanted
to
point out.

>How you can even think of bringing Word into this discussion is
>amazing.  It's got to be one of the most "let me think for you, you're
>too stupid" programs ever produced.  I'm constantly trying to undo its
>choices.

Are you telling me that you react emotionally towards Word just like an
impetuous newcomer might react towards the Rev script editor? My
very complaint about the Rev script editor is that it tries too much to
think
for me.


>Much of the discussion reminds me of people who move to a new country
>and constantly bitch about it, until all around them want to tell them
>to go back where they came from.

The psychology of migration is interesting. I know this because more than
30 years ago I moved from London to Brazil, entering into an environment
controlled by a military regime worse than I imagine existed in communist
Russia. "Adaption" does not mean imitating the natives like monkeys or
parrots. People who have little or no experience in emigration or even in
migration often speak in these terms. This is a vast subject, so I will not
discuss it in more detail here. What I will say is that there is a
significant
difference between "bitching" and constructive criticism. However, I don't
mind bitching about Rev's bugs. They've got to go.

Bob

P.S. Sorry about some of the lines above that have orphaned a few odd
words here and there. I need a new editor!

>Dave